Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caterane 03-02-04, 09:42 AM	The man stood in the middle of the still empty room and looked around, smiling. He just bought this new house, a house he dreamt of owning for a long time and now his dream has become reality: soon the room will be filled with tables, plenty of, chairs, a long bar with adamantine alloys to prevent destruction by the very special customers he awaits. Just now, infront of the door a couple of gnome workers were about to fix an elaborate sign onto the wall above the entrance: "Core Coliseum Tavern" Yes, soon the first gladiators will arive and then, great days are about to come... This is a thread specifically created to talk with each other, no more, no less. Some of you might view the Arena to pass the time, others just want to test builds and nothing more. But there are those of you who see the Arena as something more than that: a community. I can only speak for myself but I don`t spend hours upon hours of my spare freetime here just to test a build. I don`t write pages long fights when I could`ve finished a lecture in the same time just for nothing. No, the Arena is more than just a thread on the internet - it is ALIVE... and we all made it to what it is now. The Tavern is opened... This is the CoCo Discussion thread. It works just like the old one in the Arena just without the debates about specific topics.
Bishop the Bardican 03-02-04, 10:24 AM	I like the shiny bar, there. Now put some ale on it and let's drink to war, ruin, and the red dawn. *clinks mugs* Long live the arena!
Caterane 03-02-04, 10:36 AM	Ah, a barbarian from the frozen wastelands. I`ve heard of you, strong man. You lost against Laness, right? *gh* Anyway, you`re my first customer and this ale is for free.
Bishop the Bardican 03-02-04, 10:45 AM	Any word on when Drak'el Mourning vs. Urig the Usurper will be posted? I want to know what my losing-to-a-skinny-mageling barbarian has done this week.
Ethendril 03-02-04, 11:27 AM	@cellardwellar: If Smushy is back, Dusk can't be far behind. He's still training with Bahamut, but will cut his training short if that vile half-orc/half-dragon starts her unstoppable rampage again. EDIT: I think that Cat must be partially responsible for the new boards. It appears that Cat is the "official sponsor" of this thread for all discussion. I'm just wondering if we could have some other sponsors for other threads, like Twinkie or Coke, so we could get free stuff. EDIT2: @ Mo: You da' man for getting these boards. Awesome stuff.
Myrridin 03-02-04, 11:49 AM	I'm going to put a hold on my character this week, and just offer to mod fights. I'd like to build up a couple more credits, but more importantly, I'm rethinking my character concepts. I've had really bad luck with the archers recently. :P
Caterane 03-02-04, 11:53 AM	Anouncement: Please move your gladiators from the old board to the gladiators threat as soon as possible. Mo and I are updating the roster at the moment. Perhaps we can finish the work before wednesday...
Ethendril 03-02-04, 12:00 PM	Gladiators moved... @Cat: I like your new character! With the new "credits" system, there's starting to be a lot more diversity.
SnarkHunter 03-02-04, 12:23 PM	Question, which thread do we respond to polls on? I noticed that there is still one open poll on the rules/faq thread.
Arstimis 03-02-04, 12:37 PM	Kiowen is posted..he will be ready when I my fight, Kiowen vs. Kiri; Magagumo, is posted. Laucian will be posted when I get back home Oh, and the INA thread will be posted when I get home, as Mo suggested :-P
barrel_master 03-02-04, 12:37 PM	Hummm... EXCELLET!!!1 I'd miss the useless banter... bye bye core arena thread!
barrel_master 03-02-04, 12:39 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Question, which thread do we respond to polls on? I noticed that there is still one open poll on the rules/faq thread. From Moh, Edit- of course if the test proves good, nothing prevents from issuing a poll - yes, we'll have REAL POLLS TOO!! - to decide democratically if we want psionics in the main arena. My guess is that he'll make up a poll thread when he gets the time.
Caterane 03-02-04, 01:02 PM	Originally posted by Motherbast: Hey CAT, a few comments about the Candy fight. On the first round after exiting the Rope Trick, Jagath pinpoints Candy by the sound of her singing. You forget that even though he saved vs. the Ventro effect, the sound of Candy's voice still comes from the ventro, so he would have pinpointed it instead of Candy. No. This has been handled wrong in the past but some of the recent fights used it in the correct way. Ventriloquism does NOT mute your own voice. I had a discussion with Tellish and the sage, both confirming that. Oh and here another opinion about the mobility+standing up from prone issue: Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket: Both Jindl and you are correct. Mobility would not garner you any benefit
Myrridin 03-02-04, 01:12 PM	Elkesh has been moved to the new board and is inactive for 3/3.
Jindl 03-02-04, 01:16 PM	A druid, a ghost, and a Shapeshifting Master of Darkness walk into a bar ... <insert your own punchline here> Best punchline gets cookies :D
kattattack22 03-02-04, 01:40 PM	Originally posted by Jindl A druid, a ghost, and a Shapeshifting Master of Darkness walk into a bar ... <insert your own punchline here> Best punchline gets cookies :D A druid, a ghost, and a Shapeshifting Master of Darkness walk into a bar and the gnome sorceror walks underneath. A druid, a ghost, and a Shapeshifting Master of Darkness walk into a bar and the ghost looks puzzled as the others yell, "OW!"
^Rayne^ 03-02-04, 01:50 PM	Anyone who wants to fight a kobold and has a 3rd level PC, I have two of them waiting for a fight? I'm looking for challengers who like to battle little reptilian warriors! ;)
Pittbull 03-02-04, 02:28 PM	Angosh got to work the whole week - the arena is dirty, but at weekend, he has free. He challanges Aiki Auk for a real meleebattle. So, if he wants to, just reply. Oh, of course, Angosh has been transferred.
^Rayne^ 03-02-04, 02:37 PM	Aiki Auk will accept the melee challenge of the Spiked chain wielder. This should be fun! ;)
^Rayne^ 03-02-04, 02:40 PM	I still have Vryk waiting for a 3rd level challenger for this week if there are any takers. His fight is over even though he as listed as held, but when he will be fighting in a 3rd level battle this week. Actually I just had a look at the contenders and I would like to see how Vryk would fair against Enilias Surion. So Kaigan I will challenge your PC Enilias with my PC Vryk. How does that sound to you?
Jindl 03-02-04, 02:49 PM	"A druid, a ghost, and a Shapeshifting Master of Darkness walk into a bar ... <insert your own punchline here> " Originally posted by kattattack22 A druid, a ghost, and a Shapeshifting Master of Darkness walk into a bar and the gnome sorceror walks underneath. A druid, a ghost, and a Shapeshifting Master of Darkness walk into a bar and the ghost looks puzzled as the others yell, "OW!" Pretty good kattattack. Here's a :cookie: As for my own punchline... A druid, a ghost, and a Shapeshifting Master of Darkness walk into a bar ... and everyone else walks out. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 03-02-04, 03:21 PM	Originally posted by Caterane -on ventriloquism No. This has been handled wrong in the past but some of the recent fights used it in the correct way. Ventriloquism does NOT mute your own voice. I had a discussion with Tellish and the sage, both confirming that. Eh what now? When and where exactly was this discussed? I'd like to see the reasoning anyway (and someone ought to tell snow savant...) Also Jindl/cat/mo: how'd you get the neato game master tags eh? Edit: also, Donkey will be my only active combatant this week. (so you'll still get to fight Jindl!)
Magagumo 03-02-04, 03:27 PM	I would also like to hear the ruling on Ventriloquism not allowing you to project your voice (as that is the basis of the real-life technique). Furthermore, if the Game Master tags are marks for being a Senior MOD, I would love to get up on that program ;)
Jindl 03-02-04, 03:33 PM	Mo, Cat, and I are the ones responsible for handling the roster / pairings / CoC stuff / coordinating with WizO's / etc. So our moderator, WizO_Shadow, empowered us as GM's to grant us a little more in the way of abilities on the boards. So, we can edit some threads, etc. -Jindl I would love to have you guys (Snark, Mag, LL, Tellish, MB) all given the same GM status, but I got the feeling that WizO_Shadow could only empower a few, and Cat, Mo, and I were the main volunteers.
SnarkHunter 03-02-04, 03:34 PM	I figured as much. Well I do dislike effort so I'll not be making waves to get myself promoted. btw you think we should describe ready characters here or in another thread?
Magagumo 03-02-04, 03:40 PM	*Nods* Understood, I appreciate the compliment, Jindl.
Jindl 03-02-04, 03:41 PM	I'm planning to discuss a schedule change with Mo and Cat. The basic idea is to: Do pairings on Thursdays. Begin running fights where tactics have been recieved on Fridays. Run fights on default tactics on Saturday. Have fights be finished on Tuesdays. Update the Roster on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays. (The Monday update would show most of the fight results. The Wednesday update would show all the fight results and which characters had been [OK] for the next pairings. The Thursday update would give the pairings.) This way, if your character is not showing [OK] on the roster on Wed, then you can PM / email one of us to set him [OK] What do you think? -Jindl
Magagumo 03-02-04, 03:42 PM	Not a bad idea at all, worth a try at the very least. On that note, I am presently running my fight, as my internship stuff has been finally dealt with (for the moment ^-^;;)
^Rayne^ 03-02-04, 03:52 PM	This was a quote from a previous post of mine in the old tournament thread which is probably being ignored since that thread was recently closed... Does anyone have an answer to this? What happened to Tellish of Ket? I saw all of his PC's have been removed and he is now listed as an inactive DM? Not to mention he hasn't posted recently... Has he left the arena gang? Just curious because he was the first player to welcome my kobolds and was always there to offer sound advice when I needed it... Anyone know if he is gone temporarily or if he is coming back?
Jindl 03-02-04, 03:56 PM	ToK is on vacation, though he is still lurking about. He said he would return after a few weeks. His characters are all saved, so Kelek / Hurtz / Nevr / Silencius could all make a comeback some day. -Jindl
^Rayne^ 03-02-04, 04:03 PM	^Good to hear, it wouldn't be the same without him.
kattattack22 03-02-04, 04:09 PM	Originally posted by Jindl "A druid, a ghost, and a Shapeshifting Master of Darkness walk into a bar ... <insert your own punchline here> " Pretty good kattattack. Here's a :cookie: As for my own punchline... A druid, a ghost, and a Shapeshifting Master of Darkness walk into a bar ... and everyone else walks out. -Jindl Woo! I got a cookie! (cookie monster voice) mmmm, COOKIE! *gobble* *smack* *snarf* @Jindl - Yours isn't bad either. @Cat - is your archangel going to be ready for the pairings this week? If so, I would to challenge him and have the honor of the first to battle him. Plus, it could be advertised as the epic battle of Good vs. Neutral.
Bishop the Bardican 03-02-04, 04:28 PM	Mishka Utzaren is retired. Fargus Bloodbound is ready for 3/3 and will replace Mishka. Urig the Usurper is still waiting on his fight before moving to the new thread.
Magagumo 03-02-04, 05:47 PM	Kiowen vs. Kiri will be up soon... Some major bad luck on the one side, though one lucky roll at the end made a difference in the long-run. Read about it soon! :)
Kaigan 03-02-04, 05:51 PM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ I still have Vryk waiting for a 3rd level challenger for this week if there are any takers. His fight is over even though he as listed as held, but when he will be fighting in a 3rd level battle this week. Actually I just had a look at the contenders and I would like to see how Vryk would fair against Enilias Surion. So Kaigan I will challenge your PC Enilias with my PC Vryk. How does that sound to you? I accept the challenge of Vryk I will see you on the floor, goodluck Kaigan
sshuit 03-02-04, 06:04 PM	@mag. I'm not sure if you can have 2 entangles running in the same area and requiring twice as many saves, but once Kiowen saved the first round against the entangles (s)he? would have been able to move out of the entangle area without further trouble. (Albeit at half speed) He doesn't have to save again for being in an entangled area until the caster's turn comes up again. So once his initiative come up he can double move out of the entangle area..... sshuit
Ethendril 03-02-04, 06:09 PM	As a kind hint, as pixies are proficient with longbows, so are Kiri and Whisper; they need not use shortbows if you would like to deal more damage *hint, hint* I appreciate your hint about the longbows, Mag, and wish it would help me. Unfortunately, Pixies change out their level of fey for their first level of a character class (See entry in MM), and instead have class skills and weapon proficiencies of their class, not those listed in the MM. If I'm wrong, I'd be very happy... -Ethendril Also, I loved your story from the fight. Very good writing.I'm not sure if you can have 2 entangles running in the same area and requiring twice as many saves, but once Kiowen saved the first round against the entangles (s)he? would have been able to move out of the entangle area without further trouble. (Albeit at half speed) @ sshuit: I'm not sure if it makes a difference if it's two different casters, not the same one. Also, if my cohort didn't entangle the first round, she was supposed to the second round, so I'm not sure it would have made a huge difference.
sshuit 03-02-04, 06:17 PM	@ethendril, Well since he made the saving throw against both the entangles, the difference would be that he would not have been entangled at all and the whole fight might have been different. It's not my character but I'd be kinda upset getting beat over something like that. The problem was being forced to save again in the 1st round again when he shouldn't have had to until the 2nd round.... sshuit
Ethendril 03-02-04, 06:18 PM	Originally posted by sshuit @ethendril, Well since he made the saving throw against both the entangles, the difference would be that he would not have been entangled at all and the whole fight might have been different. It's not my character but I'd be kinda upset getting beat over something like that. The problem was being forced to save again in the 1st round again when he shouldn't have had to until the 2nd round.... sshuit I just meant that if he made it out the first round, my cohort would have cast it round 2. He failed the second save, so from that point it would have been the same. That's all I meant.
sshuit 03-02-04, 06:28 PM	@ethendril Actually he made the 2nd save... sshuit
Arstimis 03-02-04, 06:31 PM	Ok...jeeze....that was quite a fair fight 1 big mistake...can you guess what it was, i bet you can when my eagle passed his first save, he would have flow up and out of reach, so the vines would not effect him anymore throughout the fight. Please Magagumo, run the fight from round 1 when you made the huge mistake, so it would at least be a fair fight that i lose
Arstimis 03-02-04, 06:33 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril I'm not sure if it makes a difference if it's two different casters, not the same one. Also, if my cohort didn't entangle the first round, she was supposed to the second round, so I'm not sure it would have made a huge difference. Ya, im sure your right Ethendril, i mean...12 rounds of accomplishing absolutely nothing doesnt make too much of a difference. Its not like i could have moved from my spot in 12 rounds, or maybe cast some more useful spells...no...of course not :D
Ethendril 03-02-04, 06:39 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis Ya, im sure your right Ethendril, i mean...12 rounds of accomplishing absolutely nothing doesnt make too much of a difference. Its not like i could have moved from my spot in 12 rounds, or maybe cast some more useful spells...no...of course not :D That's not what I meant. I just meant that if you made it all the way out of the entangle the first round, my cohort was going to entange the second round, creating a new area to escape. Since you failed that save, I just meant that it didn't matter if it was in the first or second entangle.
Arstimis 03-02-04, 06:43 PM	Originally posted by sshuit @ethendril Actually he made the 2nd save... sshuit Do i really need to say anything else Ethendril? not only did i pass both saves, so did my eagle....
^Rayne^ 03-02-04, 06:46 PM	Kaigan, looking forward to the fight, your gladiator looks tough!
Hatzinger 03-02-04, 07:07 PM	Oetzi has moved to the new forum.
^Rayne^ 03-02-04, 07:21 PM	I would love to officially move Vryk but he is still held despite his fight being finished early yesterday. I've made changes and I will be ready to go when the all clear is given.
Battousai2005 03-02-04, 10:09 PM	Artavian challenges Pard, Mustiado MOF. Well? What say you? Edit: Arstimis, dont bother with what i said earlier
Jindl 03-02-04, 10:11 PM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ I would love to officially move Vryk but he is still held despite his fight being finished early yesterday. I've made changes and I will be ready to go when the all clear is given. All clear. Go ahead and move / update him. The roster will reflect it tomorrow. -Jindl
Mustadio[MoF] 03-02-04, 11:09 PM	"I, Pard Longfellow, accept ur challenge puny unarmed one!" *starts laughing maniacly* BTW, Pard is moved.
Battousai2005 03-02-04, 11:11 PM	Ahh, good. Oh, yah. I moved Artavian. I pretty much scrapped Sintius of the Green Leaf, so consider him deleted.
Alterlat 03-03-04, 12:59 AM	@Mag There's a challenge from Jagath for Zorander in the Roleplay thread.
^Rayne^ 03-03-04, 03:25 AM	Thanks Jindl, 3rd level Vryk is now posted!
Bishop the Bardican 03-03-04, 11:11 AM	Drak'el vs Urig LL, thanks for following my tactics to the letter. It was very easy for me to visualize. I think that I am going to retire Urig. The loss to Laness ended the fun for me. No offence to Tharkos, but losing to the worst win-loss ratio in the arena is a little deflating. New character up soon.
Caterane 03-03-04, 11:48 AM	@Bishop: Perhaps a LA+ monster? IMO we still have too much "normal" characters. I am going to get a minotaur started. 18 credits but I have more than enough gladiators at the moment so it`s ok. A coliseum without a minotaur :nonono: @Kakatak: I would like to accept the challenge from Ony but I don`t want to miss an opportunity to fight Laness if there`s one :) If they aren`t ready we are going to fight anyway... @Mo: The Harvester sits out this week so I only have Ixidor running. And don`t give me any fights. My practical training soaks up a lot of time.
Magagumo 03-03-04, 01:28 PM	Jagath's challenge accepted, challenge to fix my own fight accepted, would be nice if people would immediately alert em to the issues in my fight, rather than griping and moaning how it wasn't fair. Seriously, if I ran it and posted it, then I definetely thought I did it right.. it isn't just going to hit me in a flash of insight you know ;) But anyways, working on it.. @Ethendril Ah, forgot about the swap out HD, that makes sense... guess its good my own Arena's pixie sorceror never used his longbow then ;). Well, he lost to Moon-moon because he was running him as a wizard anyways, but that's a tale for another day. (Msg to new Sorcerors: If the spell doesn't work once, try it again, that's your advantage :P) Edit: @ Cat Yea, I have a couple ideas in mind, but I'll wait till Bruno gets (hopefully) his Storm Giant back this week, then I'll let him wait for new people as I experiemnt with a LG fey, or a fun little fighter concept.. I'm going to be in the red for creds (if I only could gain 36 cred... :P then I could have my anti-rogue character... but that will wait till I finally want to try my hand at Sundering)
kattattack22 03-03-04, 02:32 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Kakatak: I would like to accept the challenge from Ony but I don`t want to miss an opportunity to fight Laness if there`s one :) If they aren`t ready we are going to fight anyway... First I assume you mean me, kattattack22 or kattattack or katt or even ka22 if you want a short verison that doesn't confuse me with you. Second, fair enough we will let Mo decide who shall have the honor of killing Ixidor first. BTW, cool character name. IMO, I feel sorry for Laness sometimes she should be a strong character, but most other builds just mop the floor with her. So, if it comes down to Ixidor vs. Laness I am rooting for her, just because she needs to win occasionally.
Bishop the Bardican 03-03-04, 03:02 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Bishop: Perhaps a LA+ monster? IMO we still have too much "normal" characters. I had already posted the new character when I got around to reading your request. I will do it next time, but as there seems to be more moderators in search of credits than fights, I will be restricted to LA+1. A lawfulevil hobgoblin fighter/rogue/blackguard would be fun to roleplay but does not seem to radical. Anyways, that's at least a few weeks away as Fargus and Hadrigan begin their assault on the arena. EDIT: I have an arena rules question. Can a wizard pay 50gp per spell level to copy a spell from another wizard's spellbook or do they need to copy it from a scroll? Are wizards considered to be taking 10 when making spellcraft checks to learn a spell like a character using craft? Do these questions belong here or in the CORE FAQ AND RULES thread?
MotherBast 03-03-04, 04:32 PM	Hey, could one of the GMs remove Dra'kel's loss on the roster. His current incarnation has only had 3 fights, and all were wins. he did loose four times in a row, but was restarted every time as a "new" character. I know it sounds nitpicky, and I haven't been concerned with it untill now, but it seems he is on a roll, and I would like to see how far his "no losses" could go.
Caterane 03-03-04, 04:47 PM	@Kata: <-- :D Hey, Ixidor is tougher than you think. The first few levels will be hard tough. So Laness has finally a chance to fight someone with fewer hp. Hope Tharkos shows up soon. @Bishop: Sounds like a cool character. We don`t have any hobgoblins around despite them being only LA+1 (=no credits needed). @MB: Until March 15th Mo is solely responsible for the roster. From then on Jindl and I will take over until his return, at which time the work will be divided between the three of us.
Jindl 03-03-04, 04:49 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Hope Tharkos shows up soon. See Tharkos. Cat really does like you. He even misses you... -Jindl
^Rayne^ 03-03-04, 04:50 PM	^I have to point out that your first victory was sort of unfair. Your PC was able to do instant castings of summoned animals against my PC and didn't have to wait a round for them to show up. It is very likely Vryk would have killed your pet before your first summons would have shown up. Since your summoned wolves were getting two attacks instead of one because they were showing up on your casting rounds and staying the following round my PC got robbed! I don't want to take anything away from you but that first victory was a flawed win as far as I was concerned.
Magagumo 03-03-04, 04:53 PM	Wizards can take 10 to learn spells, so a smart wiz has no difficulties if he throws a few skill points into Spellcraft (see Bruno for example ;)) As for spells, it is 50 gp x spell level to learn the spell and 100 gp x spell level to write it in your book (until you get Boccob's :)). For 1st level spells, it's cheaper to learn it from the scroll, but after that, spellbooks all the way. Since we are providing free access to cohorts, equipment, monsters to slay, etc. I think it is only fair that all spells are available, given that you ahev the money to pay for it.
Jindl 03-03-04, 04:58 PM	@Mag - I'm pretty sure we shot down the idea that you can learn spells from another wizards spellbook (the 50 gp per spell level cost you mentioned). There was a HUGE roleplaying connatation attached, namely that you must find a friendly high level wizard to copy from, and then pay him for the spells you want. AFAIK - The only way to learn new spells (beyond the 2 you get with each wizard level) is to buy a scroll and copy it. -Jindl
^Rayne^ 03-03-04, 05:05 PM	^This is only a suggestion but what are the chances that since there isn't any NPC wizards one can gain spells from we make it so that fellow wizards who are in the arena (played by different players) can charge a rate to share spells from there spellbooks with fellow gladiators. The player sharing spells could make some money off it and some spells a wizard needed could be gained at a slightly cheaper rate than through purchase of a scroll? To not allow copying from a spellbook at all takes away from the balance a little bit because in campaign worlds a wizard would almost certainly find a wizard at some point who would be willing to share a spell or two. I don't play a wizard PC at the moment but I think that some sort of system should be allowed for wizards in the game. All sharing of spells could be approved by the council of 8 before it occurs to make sure this isn't abused but I do think it is a bit unfair not to allow some trade for spells and this might encourage some more role-playing linked to the arena? Does this sound fair to players in the arena?
Magagumo 03-03-04, 05:26 PM	Actually Jindl, I udnerstood that only you opposed the copying of spells, and honestly, this is a monir incident when we are in an Arena where every type of monster to be hunted abounds, cohorts are easily found, items are repaired for free, and we are all resurrected for free. There's tons of RP attachments, but we've generally been ignoring them (Spell Knowledge sources for Bards and Sorcerors, the fact that an Assassin's guild exists, etc.) Why randomly target wizards when we need methods to get our spells? Scrolls are far too expensive, and it is not unreasonable to find a high level wizard in our metropolis, Arena Town. Edit: On perhaps an even unfriendlier notw (sorry guys, that fight was a terror) the Kiri vs. Kiowen fight has been redone.. only it took 49 rounds or so longer.. But, it is legal now, so enjoy your rewards guys, I need a break...
Ethendril 03-03-04, 05:58 PM	Can a level 1 Sorcerer use a wand with a higher level spell than his caster level (example: wand of fireball) without the chance of spell failure? -Ethendril
kattattack22 03-03-04, 06:14 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Kata: <-- :D Hey, Ixidor is tougher than you think. The first few levels will be hard tough. So Laness has finally a chance to fight someone with fewer hp. Hope Tharkos shows up soon. Yes with DR 5, SR 11, immunities and resistances out the wazoo. I never said it would be easy; I am just confident in Ony despite his recent losses.
MotherBast 03-03-04, 06:57 PM	@Rayne: A tainted win still appears under the "win" headding in my win loss column, so thats all Dra'kel cares about. :D Really though, he isen't the first character to win through error, and I'm not entirely sure he would have lost that fight even if the summons were run properly. As a matter of fact, I have faith he could have pulled it out. Still, either way, the end result is that he is 3 and 0 at the moment, and in case he manages to go 8 and 0 or something I just want the roster to reflect it.
^Rayne^ 03-03-04, 07:03 PM	I agree with you that your PC would probably have won, but I still believe he didn't win fairly. If I had been in town to argue the point more I would have asked that some of those rounds be rerun properly. I know that when I make a fairly serious mistake as a DM that directly causes a player to lose I fix the errors so there won't be any question of the outcome. I do believe your untainted record should be shown correctly as you had to go through 4 names to get it! ;)
MotherBast 03-03-04, 07:34 PM	Exactly!!!!! It took me 5 fights to score a win, and by god, I mean to see to it I dont get charged for any losses that this incarnation didn't actually recive. The previous ones recived enough to last him another month to come.
Jindl 03-04-04, 07:59 AM	@Mag - Do you dare to let me run the Bruno (alone) vs Storm Giant fight? If so, then sign me up. I'll run it. :devil: @Mo - The Harvester #2 is now undefeated with 5 wins and should be on the unscathed winners section. I still think that section should be modified to list any character which gets 5 wins in a row, so that it doesn't favor builds that are strongest at low levels (like the multiclass barbarians and multiclass fighters). Changing the criteria to be 5 wins in a row (at any levels) would add Herrix, Jindl, and the Harvester to the list. -Jindl
Caterane 03-04-04, 08:11 AM	I talked to Mo about the unscathed winners section. He told me that I get an entry when I have a 7:0 ratio (have to beat Iron's 6:0). The next one has be get 8:0 to get an entry and so on. This way you can just close the Unscathed winners section right now because no one will get 8:0 wins, and no one is motivated to even try it. Theoretically, let`s say the best one has 14:0 victories, then a gladiator with 13:0 ratio wouldn`t get an entry until he wins 2 more. Doesn`t that sound a bit strange? 5:0 should get an entry in any case. That`s not an easy feat to accomplish and the section won`t flood over. And we have space enough now. As for the 5 wins in a row... I don`t care but Jindl has made a good point about builds that get strong at later levels.
KerlanRayne 03-04-04, 09:43 AM	I just thought I'd pass along something that I have found helpful. I keep all of the are info I use in a program called Treepad Lite (http://www.treepad.com/treepadfreeware/). It's free, and I can keep all the info organized in branches. I have a branch for each character, one for each fight, and so on. It's really helped me and I carry it around on a floppy. It's plain text only, so it you want more formatting, you could try a similar program called Keynote (http://www.tranglos.com/free/keynote.html) that's open source. I also use a great looking version of the SRD (http://www.geocities.com/sovelior/srd/). Just though someone might find it helpful. Give it a try. KerlanRayne
Caterane 03-04-04, 11:02 AM	Now that a few days have passed I want to add an idea about the board handling. I noticed that some voices are not heard the way they were heard on the old discussion thread. That is because there are several threads opened with minor issues, most often having only one or three replies which could´ve easily been answered in the Tavern. If we open a thread for every question the boards may spread thin and reaction time will increase - you might even not get an answer at all because no one wants to browse through 20 threads. In other cases like the Ally debate or the INA thread it is a good thing to open a seperate thread. Another good idea is the "Fights of the week" thread. I would suggest we concentrate on the Tavern. That way we have one central meeting point that everyone checks first. This is an important thing to have! I want to make some suggestions about board organization to get a better clear arrangement: If you have a question, post it here. If the question seems to be a bigger matter or develops into one, open a new thread. Once a week a "Fights of the week of X/X" thread should be created to keep this discussion clean of disturbing posts not related to the issues. Big debates (allies, INA, psionics, etc) get an extra thread where they can be discussed. I suggest to begin the thread title with the word "Debate" to show its purpose ('Debate: Improved natural attack for monks?') Any other issue is better suited for the Tavern. There you can tell us how great the blue background looks and that stickies should be kept at a minimum ;). Announcements like the >"pictures" coming soon< are better announced in the Tavern, the central meeting point (besides: what should one reply to such an anouncement?) What do you think? Cat
Jindl 03-04-04, 11:12 AM	Sounds good, Cat. One of the things I'll be working on (as the so-called Arena Rules Lawyer) is a compilation of all the rules that we have interpreted or discussed in the past. I plan to rewrite the old "final results" of our discussions on topics like: mounted combat, charging, handle animal, hide+movesilently, etc. and then hyperlink the summaries from a central thread: The Core Coliseum Rules. Mo has already started the main thread (under the Pitlords logo), so I'll begin making modifications soon. Hopefully, this will prove an easy resource to use when running fights, so that the DM can easily look at the "arena standard" for any rules which are unclear. What do you guys think? -Jindl
Arstimis 03-04-04, 11:16 AM	Both ideas from Cat and Jindl sound good to me
Myrridin 03-04-04, 11:35 AM	Sounds good to me too.
Ethendril 03-04-04, 11:40 AM	I like those ideas, too. Also, when are pairings this week?
Caterane 03-04-04, 12:05 PM	@Mo: Pale-Rider challenged Kiowen, so the Harvester fights Ilene! Please make the appropriate adjustments.
Pittbull 03-04-04, 02:02 PM	Tactics for Angosh have been sent!
Caterane 03-04-04, 02:05 PM	Tactics for Archangel Ixidor sent. Beginning writing for the Harvester. @Mo: I had 10 credits. Ixidor cost 9. I should have one left.
Arstimis 03-04-04, 02:08 PM	Hey Market_Share: You figure out who to send your tactics to? Lvl. 7 Pale-Rider, Market_Share chllgs Kiowen Civasion, Arstimis :P
Pittbull 03-04-04, 02:11 PM	I have questions about trip and improved trip. Ther might be a LotR (Lord of the Rules), who is able to answer them. 1. What happens, when you trip a flying creature? 2. When you successfully trip a mount, the rider is tripped automatically (successful riding-check provides no fallingdamage), are you allowed to give him the extra-attack of improved trip?
Arstimis 03-04-04, 02:12 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Mo: I had 10 credits. Ixidor cost 9. I should have one left. Sorry Cat. You have two active characters and are only moderating 1 fight So according to the new credit system, you lost 1 credit
Caterane 03-04-04, 02:20 PM	:uh-huh: Ehm, no. I HAD 10 credits, minus 9 from Ixidor = 1 left. I know I do not get one this week since I have two characters active and mod only 1 fight.
Arstimis 03-04-04, 02:24 PM	Originally posted by Caterane :uh-huh: Ehm, no. I HAD 10 credits, minus 9 from Ixidor = 1 left. I know I do not get one this week since I have two characters active and mod only 1 fight. Not according to the new credit system....check it out. If you mod less fights than you have active characters, you lose a credit Yes, its stupid, thats why i made my thread for it
Myrridin 03-04-04, 02:49 PM	I have posted a new character in Elkesh's old place. Zephin Telloran is ready for the round of fights after this one.
Jindl 03-04-04, 02:50 PM	Originally posted by Pittbull I have questions about trip and improved trip. Ther might be a LotR (Lord of the Rules), who is able to answer them. 1. What happens, when you trip a flying creature? 2. When you successfully trip a mount, the rider is tripped automatically (successful riding-check provides no fallingdamage), are you allowed to give him the extra-attack of improved trip? 1. You cannot trip a flying creature (this has been discussed at length before, and confirmed with WoTC). 2. I don't think that the rider is automatically tripped. Can you show me where you got that info from the rules? If the rider was also tripped, then yes you could use the extra attack on him. But again, I do not think tripping the mount means the rider was tripped as well. Indeed, I think it is possible to remain mounted while your mount is prone. -Jindl
Caterane 03-04-04, 02:50 PM	:uh-huh: :uh-huh: :uh-huh: Did I miss something? Jindl just wrote me a PM and asked about the "new credit system". My question is: Who and when? Edit: There aren`t enough fights as mod requests. Ok (it`s even a good thing). Now, if I am correct I get a negative credit if I mod less fights than characters, right? But since I don`t want to get a negative credit I have one of my PCs sit out. That means that there is another PC inactive and another fight gets cancelled which results in another mod getting a negative credit. He doesn`t want a negative credit either so he has one of his PCs sit out and so on. This is a downward spiral, a neverending hole, until no gladiators are active. This essentially means that those who don`t mod can go home. Ok, bye Rosella, bye bye Tharkos, etc. I don`t understand the reasoning behind this. First of all, we have more moderators than fights so there is no need to force people to mod, quite the contrary is the case. Then, credits are there to get access to special races or to save some credits when much time to spend them when you have exams. They are not there to even your account out. There is absolutely NO REASON to do this and it absolutely makes NO SENSE. I have no idea when this new system was enabled or even proposed but surely it didn`t go through the Council of Elders thus it is not valid.
Jindl 03-04-04, 02:53 PM	Ditto to everything that Cat just said. I don't think changing the credit system was necessary, nor do I think the change is an improvement to the system. @Myrrdin - Vryk (^Rayne^) was forced to sit out at level 2. Did you want to have your new character paired up with him this week? -Jindl
Myrridin 03-04-04, 03:10 PM	Sure. I didn't realize there was a character at lvl 2 sitting out. I'm more than willing to throw him to the wolves. Granted, I'd like to mod a fight if at all possible then, so I don't lose the one credit I built up.
Arstimis 03-04-04, 03:18 PM	Cat said it better than I could, but I feel the same
Kaigan 03-04-04, 03:27 PM	i'd like to start moderating fights now, if possible. what must i do?
^Rayne^ 03-04-04, 03:33 PM	Jindl I don't know how this got missed but Vryk is now level 3 and should be active right now. He did get paired up at the last minute by Mo because another PC had to drop out at the last minute. To fill in that missing slot Mo requested I make Vryk active for that fight at no loss of credit to me. I said it was fine and sent the tactics in. Vryk won and is level 3 now. I made a challenge because he won his battle and it was accepted by Enilias (Kaigan's PC) and this challenge was accepeted against his level 3 pc. Am I missing something here? Why isn't Vryk facing Enilias in this round matchup and how come Vyrk's win isn't shown? Rayne
Caterane 03-04-04, 03:37 PM	@Kaigan: You`re a moderator now though we have more fights than moderators at the moment so it is not granted that you get a fight at all. If you moderate you get an extra credit. You can use this credit for a second PC or just save it. With a credit you can either play a higher LA race or you can spend the credit when you don`t have much time but want both of your characters fight without modding any yourself (which is no problem: as I said: we have more than enough mods) You begin with a low-level fight. Not this week, of course.
Magagumo 03-04-04, 03:39 PM	Since this is the main thread for such things, I concur with Cat and Jindl, as my main arguement on Ethendril's thread about this mirror's Cat's. I also agree that as this did not go through the Elder MOds, it isn't valid... we want our creds back, MOh ;). Also, i mentioned on roster that Bruno's hunting of the Storm Giant hasn't been listed in the fights, and that I wish to run one fight (as per the old system) so as to be fair and run 2-1 fights (2 PCs).
Arstimis 03-04-04, 04:01 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Since this is the main thread for such things, I concur with Cat and Jindl, as my main arguement on Ethendril's thread about this mirror's Cat's. I also agree that as this did not go through the Elder MOds, it isn't valid... we want our creds back, MOh ;). Also, i mentioned on roster that Bruno's hunting of the Storm Giant hasn't been listed in the fights, and that I wish to run one fight (as per the old system) so as to be fair and run 2-1 fights (2 PCs). That was my thread!:mad: hehe, ya, its pretty messed up. I have 2 active characters, but since there isnt enough to go around, i get no fights
Caterane 03-04-04, 04:06 PM	@Arti: Nice thread but as I already told: we should focus on this thread, the Tavern. You even approved to this. Here we are all together and can discuss it first. If this extends into a long debate we open a seperate thread.
Magagumo 03-04-04, 04:07 PM	Sorry, Artismis, I just saw Ethendril's name when I clicked on it ;) No offense intended :D
Myrridin 03-04-04, 04:07 PM	I just noticed that Vryk is at 3rd level too. I should've known it was strange, as I ran his fight last week. :) Also, I should have 2 credits. I ran a fight last week, and the week before.
^Rayne^ 03-04-04, 04:24 PM	I noticed when you go to the Fights sticky thead if you click the Gladiator link at the top it takes you back to the Gladiator thread on the old board section not the new one. That link needs to get updated when you mods get a chance. ;) Just thought I would point that out.
MotherBast 03-04-04, 04:30 PM	Hey, uhh, Jindl? I uh... sort of deleted Aku's tactics before I got a chance to read and/or save them. I don't suppose I could bother you to resend them, and not kill me?
Arstimis 03-04-04, 04:32 PM	@Cat: oh ya sorry...i was just trying to make it so the tavern wouldnt become as cluttered as the original tournement thread. I will remember for next time @Mag: You better be sorry. Next time you do that.....you dont want to know what will happen next time you do it :P Edit: Right now sure would be a good time to send in tactics....too bad there is no one modding Kiowen's fight Edit2: Is there anything wrong with having 2 active characters, and modding 0 fights?;)
Myrridin 03-04-04, 04:35 PM	Would it be possible to give a fight to a moderator who doesn't have one this week? I noticed that there are a few people with multiple mods. I'm just asking because I know a lot of us would like to earn credits.
Jindl 03-04-04, 04:44 PM	Fixing the Roster and Pairings To revert back to the old credit system (w/ monster fights = 2 pc's), to fix lagging mistakes on the roster, and to correct the pairings for this week ... First, we need to fix Vryk, ^Rayne^. He should be listed as 3rd level, with a 1-2 record. He still sits out this week, because 3rd is an uneven level. So he does get a * (didn't fight credit). Next, we need to change the fight record for Dra'kel Mourning, MotherBast to 3-0. Though his twin siblings all lost, this incarnation is still undefeated. Now, we need to change Grym Mordrib, KerlanRayne to reflect the new posting on this board (fix the link, and change the notation to show he has moved). Grym is also ready for this week, so we need to add a new pairing at Level 6 ... Grym Mordib, KerlanRayne vs Donkey, Snarkhunter: Mercy (email to: sfarmer4 (at) kc.rr.com). This new pairing results in 1 additional pc for Snarkhunter and 1 fight for Mercy (who has now returned to modding and will have this credit reflected later when I talk about the corrected credits). Another change in moderator needs to be made. Arstimis will now be modding in place of Jindl in this fight: Level 2 ... Artavian Voidblade, Battousai2005 chllgs Pard, Mustadio[MoF]: Arstimis. This will give Arstimis 1 fight, and reduce Jindl's number of fights by 1. Another pairing needs to be fixed: Level 7 ... Pale-Rider, Market_Share chllgs Kiowen Civasion, Arstimis: Magagumo. I would have given the fight to Myrridin to mod, but he has not enough experience to do a level 7 fight yet. So, Magagumo will run the fight (and get the chance to redeem any mistakes for Arsitimis). This will reflect another fight for Magagumo (see below). A pairing needs to be added for Monster Fight: Bruno vs the Storm Giant: Jindl. I'll run this fight, and give one of my other fights to Magagumo ... Level 8's Zippy the Wondercorn!, sshuit vs. Kiri'endelas, Ethendril: Magagumo. This results in 2 additional pc's for Magagumo, and 1 additional fight for Magagumo, bringing his total to 3 pc's and 2 fights (see below). That's all the pairings and character fixes. Now to fix the credits. Essentially, all moderators who had an active PC lost a credit. But with the changes I just made, the following adjustments to the posted number of credits need to be made, in order to restore the lost credit and take into account changes to pairings and assigned moderators. Snarkhunter, Jindl, Moherajikuyx, LLMadCow, and Myrridin have the same number of credits as is currently listed. Magagumo, Caterane, MotherBast, sshuit, Ethendril, Market_Share, Bishop_the_Barbican, ^Rayne^, Hatzinger, Battousai, Arstimis, cellardwellar, Mercy, and barrel_master should all have 1 credit added to what is currently listed. Making these changes will fix the roster, fix the pairings, and reset the credit system back to normal. Further discussion may be needed regarding whether monster fights should count as 2 pc's. Please go ahead and use these fixes, until Cat, Mo, and I can implement the changes in writing on the Pairings/Roster. -Jindl
kattattack22 03-04-04, 04:50 PM	@Bishop- Tatics for Ony sent. I almost hope that I lose so Laness can get another win, but I don't want to have to bump Ony. What a dilemma. (Yes, I know I don't have to bump, but lv 5 is a problem area for the build since all he gets is +1 BAB. In contrast to 2 feats, saves inc., 2 attacks, and +1 BAB for lv 6 :P)
kattattack22 03-04-04, 04:50 PM	A druid, a shapeshifting master of darkness, and a ghost walk into a bar. The druid orders a florida sunrise. The shapeshifting master of darkness orders a bartender's soul. The ghost then orders an ale and a towel.
Arstimis 03-04-04, 05:18 PM	Originally posted by Jindl [u]Another pairing needs to be fixed:[b] Level 7 ... Pale-Rider, Market_Share chllgs Kiowen Civasion, Arstimis: Magagumo. I would have given the fight to Myrrdin to mod, but he has not enough experience to do a level 7 fight yet. So, Magagumo will run the fight (and get the chance to redeem any mistakes for Arsitimis). This will reflect another fight for Magagumo (see below). Arstimis..........should all have 1 credit added to what is currently listed. Him again, hehe [jk]. Thanks for getting me a moderator. Oh..and i have two active characters, and i am modding 0 fights, that definately wouldnt be a credit. maybe -1...or just 0..you decide that
Jindl 03-04-04, 05:32 PM	@Arstimis - Oops. My mistake. You'll be modding the Artavian Voidblade, Battousai2005 chllgs Pard, Mustadio[MoF]: Arstimis fight (see change made to the pairings/roster "fix" above). -Jindl
Caterane 03-04-04, 05:32 PM	Credits system was slightly changed: credits are a bit more important now. You'll gain a credit if you run more fights than pcs, you'll lose one if you run less fights than pcs. This was needed due to the grown number of pcs. Another thing that is completely counter-productive is the reason for this coup. If you look at the roster you might notice that the levels spread thin*. There are already several levels where only one gladiator is. And this will get even worse the higher in level we get. So the correct consequence should be to get MORE gladiators, and not fewer! *: Example: in 2 full weeks only one character will advance to level 12, and another single one in 3 weeks. And there is a reason why we freeze at lvl 13 at the moment...
Arstimis 03-04-04, 05:37 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Arstimis - Oops. My mistake. You'll be modding the Artavian Voidblade, Battousai2005 chllgs Pard, Mustadio[MoF]: Arstimis fight (see change made to the pairings/roster "fix" above). -Jindl Ok, cool, thanks oh, and i have a different type of question. Both these people are my friends, we live near eachother. Would you guys allow it if I moderated thier fight with them. So they could make tactics that wouldnt get confused with my interpretation?
SnarkHunter 03-04-04, 05:42 PM	Sounds good Jindl. @Aristimis: Eh, I don't have a problem with it. So long as neither is the sneaky type you shouldn't need to worry about player knowledge vs. PC knowledge. With anyluck that is...
Arstimis 03-04-04, 05:54 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Sounds good Jindl. @Aristimis: Eh, I don't have a problem with it. So long as neither is the sneaky type you shouldn't need to worry about player knowledge vs. PC knowledge. With anyluck that is... I would actually have each of them in a different room. So the other would have no clue what his opponent was planning, unless he guessed it right
Ethendril 03-04-04, 05:56 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis oh, and i have a different type of question. Both these people are my friends, we live near eachother. Would you guys allow it if I moderated thier fight with them. So they could make tactics that wouldnt get confused with my interpretation? Actually, this would be the ideal situation for every fight. I'd love to do it this way. [so sshuit and Mag are invited to my house this week...I'll buy pizza.]
Magagumo 03-04-04, 06:37 PM	@ Ethendril *Laughs* Thanks, but I'm afraid I won't be able to get there in time. ;) Also, I appreciate the help, Jindl, but first I, of course, would like to see a reversion to the old credit system. Second, I simply cannot take three fights on; I have far too much in my second-to-last week fo school before Spring Break, and three fights will cause me to fail. If someone is desperately needing a fight, or has the time to take another one, I would be appreciative, because I simply can't handle all of that in one week. Edit: I see we are reverting, thank the heavens. As this means I have three characters, I will gladly run 2 fights and recieve no creds this week. I figure I won't be needing them for awhile, but I'm glad I won't be losing them due to my obsession with passing my classes :P.
Jindl 03-04-04, 06:43 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Also, I appreciate the help, Jindl, but first I, of course, would like to see a reversion to the old credit system. Second, I simply cannot take three fights on; I have far too much in my second-to-last week fo school before Spring Break, and three fights will cause me to fail. If someone is desperately needing a fight, or has the time to take another one, I would be appreciative, because I simply can't handle all of that in one week. My post above did use the old credit system, albiet with Monster fights counting as 2 pc's (something which I think we Elder mods should discuss). As for the 3 fights, the lowest level fight you mod is a level 6. If someone who has modded at least 3 fights before could take that fight, then I'll be happy to implement the change (and get Mo to implement the change). I just don't want an inexperienced mod to do a level 6 fight. -Jindl
Bishop the Bardican 03-04-04, 06:43 PM	@kattattack22 I have no tactics for Ony in my pm or email. I will check later and update if possible. @Hatzinger Tactics sent for Fargus Bloodbound and Hadrigan Hillbuilder @credit/mod situation I have no problem helping out this week, but in the future I would like to be a two character, one mod a week moderator if this is possible under the new system.
Mercy 03-04-04, 07:35 PM	Originally posted by Jindl My post above did use the old credit system, albiet with Monster fights counting as 2 pc's (something which I think we Elder mods should discuss). As for the 3 fights, the lowest level fight you mod is a level 6. If someone who has modded at least 3 fights before could take that fight, then I'll be happy to implement the change (and get Mo to implement the change). I just don't want an inexperienced mod to do a level 6 fight. -Jindl I'd be willing to take the extra fight. I used to be listed as a mod but I stopped requesting fights, because I didn't want to get in the way of others building up credits. Anyway if it's acceptable my email address is sfarmer4 (at) kc.rr.com
Jindl 03-04-04, 07:57 PM	Originally posted by Mercy I'd be willing to take the extra fight. I used to be listed as a mod but I stopped requesting fights, because I didn't want to get in the way of others building up credits. Anyway if it's acceptable my email address is sfarmer4 (at) kc.rr.com Done. See the changes made above.
kattattack22 03-04-04, 07:58 PM	Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican @kattattack22 I have no tactics for Ony in my pm or email. I will check later and update if possible. I have resent them just in case via email.
Kaigan 03-04-04, 08:04 PM	@Bishop: I have sent in my tactics. They are pretty straightforward. PM me if you need any clarifications.
Market_Share 03-04-04, 08:40 PM	So Mercy is our mode then for Pale-Rider vs Kiowen? Just checking so i know to send him the tactics before i take off for the weekend. SPIKE
Jindl 03-04-04, 09:03 PM	Originally posted by Market_Share So Mercy is our mode then for Pale-Rider vs Kiowen? Just checking so i know to send him the tactics before i take off for the weekend. SPIKE Check again. Mercy took over Magagumo's 6th level fight ... the one between Donkey and Grym. Magagumo now has 2 fights to mod: Kiowen vs Pale-rider ... and the 8th level Pixie fight. He's getting a chance to run a clean fight for Arstimis and to run a clean fight for Ethendril. -Jindl
^Rayne^ 03-04-04, 09:12 PM	Tactics received from Cat and Motherbast for their battle.
Battousai2005 03-04-04, 10:04 PM	@Everyone: Hey, I dont have a fight to moderate. @Hatzinger: Mind if i take one of the ecl 2s off your hands for you?
Arstimis 03-04-04, 10:12 PM	I think fights should be given to mods a little differently. How about every mod gets one fight to start out with, then the fights will be given to those who need it because of numbers of PC's then it will be given to those who request extra fights. This would be much fairer to the newer mods who want to gain credits, but cant because the other mods either have 3 or 2 pc's and take the fights, or someone requests extra ones. An example of this would be Battousai. I know he wants to gain credits so he can get another PC with an LA, but its nearly impossible when alot of other moderators get the fights before he has a chance to get one Edit: Tactics have been sent for Laucian Evior (to Hatzinger) And for Kiowen Civasion (to Magagumo)
xeno_eleusis 03-05-04, 01:55 AM	@Hatzinger Tactics sent for Boafer Stonewill
Caterane 03-05-04, 02:24 AM	I think fights should be given to mods a little differently. How about every mod gets one fight to start out with, then the fights will be given to those who need it because of numbers of PC's then it will be given to those who request extra fights. Hey Arty, that`s a good idea. I think we should do it that way. This is something that i thought of recently. The DMG lists modern weapons and futeristic weapons. I believe that it might be fun to try something that includes the weapons. This could lead to some more interesting builds. Also, I don't think many people like to DM modern campaigns. It would be a chance to see what these weapons can do for veteren players who never got a chance to use a plasma rifle before. Anyway, just a thought. We shouldn`t mix different tech levels. That takes away some of the flavor of a medieval fantasy world. I just cannot imagine the Harvester with a plasma rifle instead of a scythe.
Caterane 03-05-04, 02:42 AM	From now on every pairings day we make a single post on the fights thread that informs of a new week. Check it out here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&goto=lastpost) The reason is to have a clear overview when a new week began.
^Rayne^ 03-05-04, 03:21 AM	Ethendril, tactics for Aiki Auk's battle verses Angosh have been emailed to you. Let me know if you have any questions or they don't make it to you for some strange reason. Rayne
Caterane 03-05-04, 06:15 AM	@Elder Mods: New poll: Should we allow Masterwork tools? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2734709#post2734709) @Mo: Please reserve a seat in the Council of Elder Mods. You`re the only one missing.
Caterane 03-05-04, 06:41 AM	@Mo: About the unscathed winners section. It isn´t fair to do it your way. I already pointed out that it won`t be possible to get an entry once 6:0 or 7:0 is reached (if we use your suggestion). Unfair it is because just because Iron was first he has the advantage. If the Harvester wins against Ilene he was equally good as Iron (6:0) but Iron gets the entry because he was first. So I bid you to enter the Harvester to the unscathed winners section. I will open a poll about the 5 wins in a row at later levels. Originally posted by Jindl: The Harvester #2 is now undefeated with 5 wins and should be on the unscathed winners section. I still think that section should be modified to list any character which gets 5 wins in a row, so that it doesn't favor builds that are strongest at low levels (like the multiclass barbarians and multiclass fighters). Changing the criteria to be 5 wins in a row (at any levels) would add Herrix, Jindl, and the Harvester to the list.Originally posted by Caterane: I talked to Mo about the unscathed winners section. He told me that I get an entry when I have a 7:0 ratio (have to beat Iron's 6:0). The next one has be get 8:0 to get an entry and so on. This way you can just close the Unscathed winners section right now because no one will get 8:0 wins, and no one is motivated to even try it. Theoretically, let`s say the best one has 14:0 victories, then a gladiator with 13:0 ratio wouldn`t get an entry until he wins 2 more. Doesn`t that sound a bit strange? 5:0 should get an entry in any case. That`s not an easy feat to accomplish and the section won`t flood over. And we have space enough now.
MotherBast 03-05-04, 07:08 AM	A compromise might be to simply do the unscathed winners section as CAT and Jindl propose, but then create another listing for Record Holder, that only shows the gladiator (or gladiators in the event of a tie) with the most wins in a row. At the moment, that would be Iron. And while were on the topic of FUS, Candy's CHA score is improved now, so the BunnyBaby listing could be changed to reflect that.
Myrridin 03-05-04, 08:57 AM	Originally posted by Arstimis I think fights should be given to mods a little differently. How about every mod gets one fight to start out with, then the fights will be given to those who need it because of numbers of PC's then it will be given to those who request extra fights. This would be much fairer to the newer mods who want to gain credits, but cant because the other mods either have 3 or 2 pc's and take the fights, or someone requests extra ones. An example of this would be Battousai. I know he wants to gain credits so he can get another PC with an LA, but its nearly impossible when alot of other moderators get the fights before he has a chance to get one I would be another example of this. I'd like to build up some credits, but wasn't given a fight either. Amazing, I have no active PC's, and wasn't given a fight to mod, and I *lost* the credit I had built up? I'm not exactly sure what's going on there.
Magagumo 03-05-04, 09:32 AM	@ Jindl *Laughs* I like you constant references to a "clean" fight. Considering all the various complications mid-fight, I would agree that that thing was a bit messy. Ah well, hopefully we can avoid this, this time. I've gotten Pale & Kiowen's tactics. Fight will be run Saturday evening, most likely, and Sunday afternoon. Hmm, so if we only gave the min number of fights to Mods with ECL monsters fighting (Jindl, Cat, Snark, Ethendril.. anyone else?), this would give thos Mods without ECL a chance to get their own monster fight, does this sound right to peoople? Frankly, I will be happy to wait on gaining creds until Bruno is absolutely frozen, as I really want to build this char up (ECL 6 or ECL 7, depending), before I make them.
Arstimis 03-05-04, 09:50 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Hey Arty, that`s a good idea. I think we should do it that way. What you agrea with me?! :P We shouldn`t mix different tech levels. That takes away some of the flavor of a medieval fantasy world. I just cannot imagine the Harvester with a plasma rifle instead of a scythe. I think this idea would have to come from a different arena, with different characters. Kinda like how Psionics would. I dont think Psionics and medieval fantasy mix any better than tech and fantasy...but it could be a neat thing to try in a different arena
Jindl 03-05-04, 10:08 AM	@Mo - Theres still 2 minor fixes on the pairings. 1. Add Bruno's monster fight at 13th level: Bruno, Magagumo vs the Storm Giant: Jindl 2. Change the moderator from Jindl to Magagumo for the Pixie fight at Level 8: Zippy the Wondercorn!, sshuit vs Kiri'endelas, Ethendril: Magagumo Thanks Arstimis :D Thanks. -Jindl ************************** Tactics recieved for Zippy and Jagath. I will forward Zippy's tactics to Magagumo. I'm still waiting on tactics for Zorander and Bruno. @Ethendril - Please send Kiri's tactics straight to Magagumo. @MotherBast - Tactics re-sent for Aku. :D -Jindl
Arstimis 03-05-04, 10:10 AM	Originally posted by Jindl 2. Change the moderator from Jindl to Magagumo for the Pixie fight at Level 7: Zippy the Wondercorn!, sshuit vs Kiri'Endelas, Ethendril: Magagumo Level 8 actually
Bishop the Bardican 03-05-04, 11:04 AM	Tactics received for only Ony. I think my problems in the past were due to my email filter. This should not be a problem in the future. My apologies to anyone who has had to send tactics twice. waiting for tactics from everyone else
cellardweller 03-05-04, 11:17 AM	Snarky & MB, I am embarressed to say that I let my @thevortex mailbox fill up so if you have already sent your tactics, I am going to have to get you to re-send them.
cellardweller 03-05-04, 11:23 AM	curses
SnarkHunter 03-05-04, 12:08 PM	Everyone can expect my tactics late tonight. Hopefully. Busy day. So Far I've got tactics for Voliana only.
Jindl 03-05-04, 01:33 PM	@MotherBast - Tactics PM'd for Jindl (in 2 parts). @Snarkhunter - I tried to PM the tactics for Anna, but your box is full (probably saving the sent messages again). I'll try to email the tactics instead, in a few minutes. -Jindl Also, a reminder to all Elder Mods. There is a poll up on the "Elder Mods Forum" regarding the stupid MW stuff. Please go vote. (@MotherBast - The poll was just modified by Caterane to include my suggestion. Please look at the new option and decide if you want to change your vote.).
Ethendril 03-05-04, 01:40 PM	@ Mag: Tactics sent for Kiri.
Caterane 03-05-04, 01:41 PM	Tactics received from Gorga and Ötzi Originally casted by Jindl: (@MotherBast - The poll was just modified by Caterane to include my suggestion. Please look at the new option and decide if you want to change your vote.) Hey, there was a Dc20 suggestion spell hidden in that sentence! Stop influencing people Jindl :D
Jindl 03-05-04, 02:12 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Hey, there was a Dc20 suggestion spell hidden in that sentence! Stop influencing people Jindl :D Wow, thats a pretty good DC for a 3rd level spell... -Jindl PS: Tactics emailed to Snark for Anna, and tactics forwarded to Magagumo for Zippy the Wondercorn!
Druid Roxors 03-05-04, 02:17 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Wow, thats a pretty good DC for a 3rd level spell... -Jindl PS: Tactics emailed to Snark for Anna, and tactics forwarded to Magagumo for Zippy the Wondercorn! And they say the new Spell focus + Heighten spell Sucks... ;)
Caterane 03-05-04, 02:25 PM	...and I say Drow- and Madness Domains
Mercy 03-05-04, 05:31 PM	@Snarkhunter - I had a problem with your Donkey tactics vs. Grym Mordib. I sent you an email explaining the issue. If I don't hear from you by tomorrow I'll assume you are ok with my interpretation.
barrel_master 03-05-04, 06:36 PM	Hummm... what's been happening recently round here?
MotherBast 03-05-04, 06:47 PM	Well, for one, I just posted the Aku vs. Lance fight.
Caterane 03-05-04, 06:54 PM	Jindl, don`t you think you spend a bit too much on ressources for these levels?
Caterane 03-05-04, 07:56 PM	New poll debated in the Council: Improved natural attack for monks? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2734709#post2734709)
sshuit 03-05-04, 11:35 PM	@motherbast. I don't think Lance's horse is fooled by mirror images since it has scent. I also think that Lance gets an AoO since a horse's rider counts as being in both squares his horse is in, so he can use a 10' reach weapon against an adjacent foe. sshuit
Arstimis 03-06-04, 12:55 AM	Originally posted by sshuit @motherbast. I also think that Lance gets an AoO since a horse's rider counts as being in both squares his horse is in, so he can use a 10' reach weapon against an adjacent foe. sshuit I think MotherBast mentioned him not having a weapon ready to take an AoO with
xeno_eleusis 03-06-04, 02:57 AM	From Aku's character sheet Feats: Wizard 1 - Scribe Scroll Lvl 1 - Improved Initiative Lvl 3 - Spell Focus ()Since Spell Focus is a school specific Feat. So what school did Aku pick?
Caterane 03-06-04, 04:52 AM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis Since Spell Focus is a school specific Feat. So what school did Aku pick? Ah, he jindled again
Caterane 03-06-04, 06:48 AM	Fight masters posting fights in delay (friday 13:00 EU) get a - credit. You mean Tuesday, right? About the new term "Fight Masters". That`s not optimal for several reasons: 1) We are already used to the term Moderator. We used this expression from the beginning on. 2) FM is another abrevation which is not good. Abrevations confuse those who are not familiar with it and should be kept at a minimum. 3) FM doesn`t roll that good of the tongue than Mod or Moderator. 5) Fight Master, Dungeon Master, Game Master, they have all a different meaning --> confuse 6) There is no reason to change this. Let's keep the old expression.
MotherBast 03-06-04, 07:01 AM	The scent ability only allowes the horse to pinpoint to a 5' square. All of Aku's immages were in the same square, so the horse did not know which was the one giving off the scent. Lance did not get an AoO because he only had a scroll of Magic Weapon in hand, as per his tactics. And Cat: I belive we were asked to make the change by the board Modarators who didn't want readers to associate our arena and its MODs with the board Mods. I can see where people not familure with the arena might get the impression the arena was a WotC project if they though the board Mods ran it. So the name change was in order to prevent confusion. Still, I don't like Fight Master. I don't think we were required to take that name, so we could agree on another.
Hatzinger 03-06-04, 11:31 AM	dwarfen Bbn1/Wiz1 versus human Bbn1/Ftr1, both with exceptionally high hps for an ECL 2 fight. The fight is done and will be posted soon. It falls under the category "half-a-round-fights". @Battousai: sorry, just read your post. It´s already too late - i am half through the second fight.
Bishop the Bardican 03-06-04, 11:52 AM	Still waiting on tactics for Laness Deville. I will run my other fight to give you a little more time, but we are well past the cutoff. Has anyone heard from Tharkos?
Caterane 03-06-04, 11:53 AM	@Hatze: The bat has to make a reflex save too. And it`s not a half-a-round fight because a) The loser acted and b) he wasn`t even dead after round 1. Else, it looks good. @all: Suggestions for a better name than Fight Master
barrel_master 03-06-04, 11:59 AM	Originally posted by Caterane You mean Tuesday, right? About the new term "Fight Masters". That`s not optimal for several reasons: 1) We are already used to the term Moderator. We used this expression from the beginning on. 2) FM is another abrevation which is not good. Abrevations confuse those who are not familiar with it and should be kept at a minimum. 3) FM doesn`t roll that good of the tongue than Mod or Moderator. 5) Fight Master, Dungeon Master, Game Master, they have all a different meaning --> confuse 6) There is no reason to change this. Let's keep the old expression. Yes, I would prefer mod, but then again FM isn't all that bad either. I'd still rather have mod though.
Hatzinger 03-06-04, 02:26 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Hatze: The bat has to make a reflex save too. the bat wasn´t even near the explosion. and it was the familiar of the guy who cast the fireball, not the one who received it.:P
kattattack22 03-06-04, 02:32 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @all: Suggestions for a better name than Fight Master 1) Almighty Deim 2) Referee or "ref" 3) Emperor of Conflict 4) Umpire or "ump" 5) Game Master or GM 6) Ares
Druid Roxors 03-06-04, 02:47 PM	Suggestion for Mod Name: GOD (no need for abreviations!!)
^Rayne^ 03-06-04, 02:52 PM	Your God of the week will be... God says you lose, accept your fate! God doesn't like dissention in the ranks! God says, shut-up the fight is over! God is perfect, therefore all mistakes are yours not mine! ... I can see this term will be quite fun to use but somehow doesn't quite seem appropriate. ;)
Hatzinger 03-06-04, 03:20 PM	The fight is finished and will be posted now. Its the mounted human Ftr2 versus the sneaky halfling Evoker2.
Arstimis 03-06-04, 04:25 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger The fight is finished and will be posted now. Its the mounted human Ftr2 versus the sneaky halfling Evoker2. Please tell me why you didnt follow this part of my tactics. "*If he does not have his crossbow out, then see if he seems to be casting a spell, or readying a spell for when i get close enough. Make spellcraft checks. "you can´t see if anyone is readying anything. you could identify a spell being cast with your spellcraft, but guessing the actions of others is just not possible. The then part is only conditional, if i cant do it, then ignore it Next round move within 100 ft from him, drink Potion of Shield, and quickdraw longbow. i could have sworn there was a potion of shield (other than SoF) but anyways...unless he has his crossbow out, i am supposed to be 100 ft away. pretty simple Next round if i find out he is casting buffs on himself, then quickdraw to greatsword, and charge in for the fight. Well..i couldnt tell he was doing this, so i shouldnt have charged in...commiting suicide. If he was readying an action to cast a spell on me, then I will shoot with longbow, untill he switches to his crossbow. ignore, because it doesnt work As soon as he switches i will quickdraw greatsword and charge in.. And here is where i switch to my greatsword and charge in. Not while he is sitting there, only once he switched to his crossbow One of my main fears was Color Spray. That is why these tactics were here...to avoid color spray at all costs.
Hatzinger 03-06-04, 05:13 PM	@Arstimis: i find your post quite confusing. what exactly are you trying to tell me (except that you are unhappy to have lost)? your tactics were totally ignoring the equipment and possible tactics of your enemy, so i was forced to improvise. face it: you are a melee fighter. your ranged abilities are bad and you only had 20 arrows with you. once he had mage armor and shield, your chance of hitting him with your bow were nearly zero. your tactics stated to close in on him, which is natural for a mounted melee fighter, and that is what your character did. (it would have helped if you had written that your character should have started mounted.) Once you were close enough to charge him, he was already out of reach and on the column. what could you have done else than to fire a few arrows and hope that he eventually comes down again? (which he did.) And when he did come down AND was within charging distance, why would you NOT charge him? As you had no means of finding out if he had delayed something or readied something or just done nothing in his round, there was no way you could have known that he had readied his colour spray. Of course, colour spray was his main weapon against you; but hey, his DC was not so hard that you couldn´t have made it. You just lost because you met a character concept that is very hard to beat by your character concept. that happens from time to time (especially with invisible pixies:nonono: ); but don´t blame the moderator for it.
Arstimis 03-06-04, 05:35 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger @Arstimis: i find your post quite confusing. what exactly are you trying to tell me (except that you are unhappy to have lost)? your tactics were totally ignoring the equipment and possible tactics of your enemy, so i was forced to improvise. I didnt ignore anything in my tactics. Specifically in my tacitcs were that if he did not have his crossbow out, then i would stay 100 ft from him, and shoot my arrows. 20 rounds of shooting is quite enough for my liking. so lack of equipment wasnt the problem. face it: you are a melee fighter. your ranged abilities are bad and you only had 20 arrows with you. once he had mage armor and shield, your chance of hitting him with your bow were nearly zero. Now this is just completely wrong and out of place in the arena. Who are you to tell me what my character is and isnt? nearly zero yes, but not impossible. So stick to what my tactics said. Do your own improvising after all other things have been triedl. your tactics stated to close in on him, which is natural for a mounted melee fighter, and that is what your character did. to close in on him IF he had his crossbow out. (it would have helped if you had written that your character should have started mounted.) I was under the impression that you were not allowed to start mounted. Once you were close enough to charge him, he was already out of reach and on the column. what could you have done else than to fire a few arrows and hope that he eventually comes down again? (which he did.)[b] Then fire all my arrows before i set myself for suicide (ie Color Spray) [b]And when he did come down AND was within charging distance, why would you NOT charge him? As you had no means of finding out if he had delayed something or readied something or just done nothing in his round, there was no way you could have known that he had readied his colour spray. Because my tactics didnt say for me to charge him unless he had his crossbow out. If he has his crossbow out, he isnt casting color spray (or any spell for that matter). If he doesnt have his crossbow out then he is readying a spell. My character would know this. Not from Spellcraft, but from common sense. Of course, colour spray was his main weapon against you; but hey, his DC was not so hard that you couldn´t have made it. It was...and i have a -1 to will save. color spray screws me. I wanted to stay away. You just lost because you met a character concept that is very hard to beat by your character concept. that happens from time to time (especially with invisible pixies:nonono: ); but don´t blame the moderator for it. I had tactics for when to attack him in melee, and when not to. If he doesnt have a crossbow out, the first spell he is casting on me is color spray. SO I SAID TO STAY AWAY. If i wanted you to improvise how you thought my character should be...why would i have sent tactics?
Hatzinger 03-06-04, 05:53 PM	@Artstimis: you know what? lets have some other people read the fight and post if they, too find that i totally ignored/misunderstood/damaged your otherwise brilliant tactics.
Battousai2005 03-06-04, 06:01 PM	@hat: Ok, you want another opinion? Here it is. Simply put, a moderator should not interfere with the tactics submitted to him unless the tactics have broken down, and utterly at that. If you want an example of what i mean, look at Sintius vs. Grym. This is one of the rare instances where the moderator had to make a judgement call. If you really want to make tactics for a fighter like Arti's, make one yourself.
Hatzinger 03-06-04, 06:18 PM	@battou: did you read his tactics? i played his character as i found to be the best for him. i didn´t let him stay away from the wizard because the wizard had +7 ranged and AC 23 + cover, while the fighter had +3 ranged and AC 15. In my opinion, it would be crazy to keep up doing ranged combat under these conditions - and until now i thoughed i should play the combattant so that he can win. i did let him charge the wizard, because there he had a real chance, while his other option would have been to stay away (see above). and besides: the fighter had absolutely no idea if the wizard had memorized colour spray at all or if he had readied it at that moment or not. as his tactics didn´t include what to do when the wizard spider-climbed up a column or was able to shoot him down in ranged combat, this was in my opinion the best tactic.
Bishop the Bardican 03-06-04, 06:25 PM	Corinthus Avius, Druid_Roxors vs. Enilias Surion, Kaigan is posted. @Hetz and Arti I think we should move the argument into a Problems with the Fights of 3/3 thread. Laness Devill, Tharkos vs Ony Akerr, kattattack22 will have to be run on Sunday. I am tapped out. This gives Tharkos another day to get tactics into me.
kattattack22 03-06-04, 06:58 PM	Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican Laness Devill, Tharkos vs Ony Akerr, kattattack22 will have to be run on Sunday. I am tapped out. This gives Tharkos another day to get tactics into me. I eagerly await its posting. :fight!:
Druid Roxors 03-06-04, 07:28 PM	Nevermind, moved to Problems and Concerns Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=195877)
Coyote Skyheart 03-06-04, 08:15 PM	Is this a tavern or a rule argument thread? *confused walks in the door* Hello! *the young spellcaster takes a seat at the empty bar* IS THERE ANYTHING TO DRINK AROUND HERE?! He yells. ;) "Toto, this is a strange place." He says, looking down at his brown scrappy looking weasel.
Magagumo 03-06-04, 10:19 PM	Allo, Kiowen vs. Pale-Rider is posted I assure you, the arena's greatest 7th level grappler won this one.
Mercy 03-06-04, 11:37 PM	@Mag - During the fight between Kiowen and Pale-Rider; it appeared that Kiowen was damaged by Magic Missiles while he had a Shield spell up.
Magagumo 03-07-04, 12:24 AM	So I was told.. I commented on this in the Fight Error Thread. Anyways, fight is all fixed up, and Zippy vs. Kiri has been up for a bit as well. Let me know if there were any brutal errors in that as well ;)
Arstimis 03-07-04, 01:17 AM	Thanks for doing again Magagumo, didnt see any mistakes this time...besides maybe one with my ac on the last round ac should be 10+3(dex)+3(wis)+1(monk ac bonus)+1(if my dodge is implied to be against him) = 18. But as i dont really want you to have to do my fight again, you can just leave it be. It was pretty impossible for me to win. Plus i get level bumped anyway....again This is just another testement as to why monk's are not to great in the arena. So why not allow Improved Unarmed Strike :D
kattattack22 03-07-04, 02:55 AM	Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart Is this a tavern or a rule argument thread? *confused walks in the door* Hello! *the young spellcaster takes a seat at the empty bar* IS THERE ANYTHING TO DRINK AROUND HERE?! He yells. ;) "Toto, this is a strange place." He says, looking down at his brown scrappy looking weasel. @Coyote - The tavern is a general discussion thread (rules, fights, BS, anything that doesn't have its own thread, yet). See page 1 the first post. I also looked over your character sheet and you did an excellent job. There are just a couple things you might want to add. 1) Put what loads you can carry based on your strength (light/medium/heavy). Its helps the mods to double check your load weight. 2) Default tatics section is for generic tatics in case your don't send your specfic tatics by email in time or if your tatics break down. It gives moderators a general idea of the strengths of your build and how to utilize them if they have to improvise. Most people have them for Vs. Melee, Vs. Ranged, and Vs. Spellcasters. Nothing horribly wrong, just a couple things that help the moderators. If you have any more questions feel free to post them here and someone should respond.
xeno_eleusis 03-07-04, 03:33 AM	From: Boafer Stonewill vs. Fargus Bloodbound - ECL2 The watching crowd starts to boo at the victor; for they have to wait another hour for the next fight now.Aku was never boo'ed when he used a Magic Missile scroll CL9. I just mixmaxed the following two scrolls: Fireball CL5 vs Magic Missile CL9 MM9 - 225 gp, DC10, 5d4+5, 17.5 avg dam, 190 ft range, No Save/Shield spell deflects FB5 - 375 gp, DC6., 5d6.., 17.5 avg dam, 480 ft range, Refl Save Half DC15 (10 +3 spell +2 Int) Honestly, I was counting on him surviving the blast, drinking a potion, then having to fight him in melee, I think that would have been a good read. I think this one came down to high rolls on d6's. Somehow I feel "cheap", like I cheated. I hope there isn't an arena Karma rule? I would like to volunteer to Moderate for 10/3.
Arstimis 03-07-04, 04:12 AM	My first modded fight, Artavian vs Pard, has been posted. Im ready for the barage of corrections that are thrown my way. oh, and sorry for lack of creativity or story. Its my first fight, and im not the greatest when it comes to story or creative flair Enjoy
xeno_eleusis 03-07-04, 04:13 AM	Posted by: kattattack22 1) Almighty Deim 2) Referee or "ref" 3) Emperor of Conflict 4) Umpire or "ump" 5) Game Master or GM 6) AresI like "REF" and "UMP". REF: "The REF's ruling is in." UMP: "When is my UMP going to post the fight?" 1) Master: "I'd like to Master next week" 2) Judge: "We need more Judge's" 3) Inspector: "I don't know my Inspector yet" 4) Maven: "I think my Maven doesn't know how to read" 5) Guru: "We've got too many Guru's as it is" 6) Pro: "I won't be able to Pro next week" 7) Sage: "I don't think I have what it takes to be a Sage" 8) Shark: "Your Shark has already re-ran your Fight" 9) Maestro: "You're the best Maestro on this board" A) Auger: "Can I get another Auger to rule on this" B) Don: "Your Don gave you an offer that you can't refuse" C) Topper: "Pairings are up and Toppers assigned"
Arstimis 03-07-04, 04:17 AM	Maybe Mediator? its almost moderator :P
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 05:49 AM	G O D
Caterane 03-07-04, 06:01 AM	What about Fight Moderator? That would clearly distinguish it from the Board Moderators. The problem is that it is difficult to get a new term into our heads. Or what about "the CoCos"? Who`s my Coco?
Caterane 03-07-04, 08:02 AM	Ötzi vs Smushy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2778771#post2778771)
Magagumo 03-07-04, 09:25 AM	Hey Cat, nice fight, nice story synopsis. Only thing is on Round 2, Smushy was counted as being entangled after she broke free. Also, she could not move after breaking free, as that takes a full-round action. I should also note that this did not change any of the fight's results in the slightest, but I felt it was good to note the rules error so they are repeated less (I've screwed up Entangle quite a few times now ;))
Caterane 03-07-04, 09:52 AM	Hey Mag, you changed your sig! I would applaud you were it not that I have unpleasant memories about "the Willikens" :smirk: Entangle: right. Was in a hurry.
MotherBast 03-07-04, 10:21 AM	Celler: I had a few issues with the way the Dust of Choaking and Sneezing was used in the Brackin vs. Bilo fight. Check the fight concerns for 3/3 thread for the info.
Coyote Skyheart 03-07-04, 10:25 AM	Thanks Kattatack. I'll make those changes. How will we know who to send the tactics to...and when?
Mercy 03-07-04, 10:28 AM	Grym Mordib vs. Donkey (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2779253#post2779253)
sshuit 03-07-04, 11:40 AM	Harvester vs. Ilene. No tactics received for Ilene, No default tactics. What to do now? sshuit
SnarkHunter 03-07-04, 12:00 PM	I usually try to devlope some extremly basic tactics based on previous fights. I.E. maintaign distance and shoot. Of course you don't use any potions or other items, since you've recieved no indication to do so. Currently working on the ghost/sorcerer fight.
barrel_master 03-07-04, 12:17 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter I usually try to devlope some extremly basic tactics based on previous fights. I.E. maintaign distance and shoot. Of course you don't use any potions or other items, since you've recieved no indication to do so. Currently working on the ghost/sorcerer fight. To be honest, I don't really expect to come out on the winning side of that one.
Bishop the Bardican 03-07-04, 01:12 PM	Corinthus Avius vs Enilias Surion version 2.0 is up. Entangle problem should be corrected.
kattattack22 03-07-04, 02:30 PM	Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart How will we know who to send the tactics to...and when? On the first page of the gladiators thread, 4th post, titled parings will tell you who your opponent is and the moderator for your fight. (char name, player name vs. char name, player name, mod name) Pairings usually on Wednesday and tatics due by friday
Rosella 03-07-04, 02:45 PM	tactics for Ilene sent, sorry I'm late. had a busy week :(
SnarkHunter 03-07-04, 02:46 PM	On that note, I've not recieved any tactics from Jonah on Grimlock. Granted he's pretty straight forward but If he wants to get them to me he shoudl soon.
Hatzinger 03-07-04, 02:49 PM	@Cat: thanks for modding. (and for asking me again.) I was a bit afraid of my enemy but the raw fire-power of the elven bowmen was victorious again. :D
Battousai2005 03-07-04, 07:12 PM	Artavian Voidblade challanges Vryk, ^Rayne^ to a one on one dual on the tenth of March. No holds barred, cage match, with fluffy pillows on the outside of the ring in case someone falls!:D EDIT: The story behind the challange is on the roleplay thread
MotherBast 03-07-04, 07:35 PM	Sky vs. Jindl will be posted shortly. I have been running this one all day. 7 Hours of my life for this fight. 143 rounds, all modarated. Count, and I mean count, 356 damage total delt in the fight, between all four partisapants, and 168 damage recoved, between 3 of the 4. It might take me a while to get it posted. For those who can't wait, I will include a little spoiler at the end of this post. Actually, less than 200 damage was delt in this fight, and non was recovered. It lasted 9 rounds, and was really over on turn 1. I just like to make it sound intresting so people will actually go read it. Ok, fight posted.
Bishop the Bardican 03-07-04, 08:45 PM	Ony Akerr vs Laness DeVille posted. Must stop looking at computer screen for next several hours.
sshuit 03-07-04, 08:48 PM	Ilene vs Harvester-2 is up! WOW! What a fight, it was even better than Skymoon vs Jindl (And that was a great fight btw!) sshuit
MotherBast 03-07-04, 08:52 PM	Oh, and aobut the storyline in the Jindl vs. moon fight. Sorry guys.... Cat didn't make me do it, but he cetanly inspired it. Someone had to do it sooner or later.
Magagumo 03-07-04, 08:54 PM	Hmm, I didn't see the half-damage vs. obejcts coming into play vs. that Tower Shield.... or the Heavy Steel Shield. I know that we have apparently managed to house-rule that one can now sunder an attended shield with a bow... but could we at least have the decency to deal half-damage? ;) But yea, considering that the damaging an object rule is only for unattended objects.. you really can't destroy a shield with a bow... ever. There's the opposed attack roll, to start with, and then people keep forgetting that it clearly states one must be using a slashing or bludgeoning weapon.... Perhaps the orc shot-put could sunder from range, but that isn't even Core. This whole adamantine arrow sundering needs to stop. Besides, considering how the recent Sage ruling has ended the hideous abuse of Tower Shields.. can we just let this rest? Yes, archers, Tower Shield is going to mess you up, but your opponent cannot ever harm you (only a move-equiv left). Then, you have the option of attacking them from the rear (be mounted and take advantage of that mobility, or fly and use the extra speed to do it). We don't have people double-moving under Total Cover, and they aren't buffing. Besides, I would say they lose if they hold that Cover for more than 10 rounds straight, as we do for Melding into Stone or moving into the Ethereal Plane. Just hold your action, and they'll be a ready target soon enough.
^Rayne^ 03-07-04, 08:55 PM	Artavian Voidblade's challenge will be accepted against Vryk for the pairings on the 10th. I got passed over on my challenge for this week (which I'm sure Vryk would have won) so hopefully this time the fight happens and I don't have to have my PC sit out again. :rolleyes:
Jindl 03-07-04, 09:19 PM	Please allow me to repeat what Magagumo just said: You cannot attack a held object with a ranged weapon. So quit shooting arrows at tower shields. In other news, Bruno vs Paris the Stone Giant is posted... there is a little twist to the ending that I hope you like. -Jindl
Magagumo 03-07-04, 09:24 PM	Zorander has a screwed-up family, Jindl :D *laughs at the result* My only complaint is you keep neglecting my dodge bonus to AC vs. Giants, not that it really mattered much in the fight ;)
Jindl 03-07-04, 09:28 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo My only complaint is you keep neglecting my dodge bonus to AC vs. Giants, not that it really mattered much in the fight ;) Dang it. You're right. Drat. Of course, every hit the giant landed beat your AC by at least 4, so it wouldn't have mattered, but I'll remember it next time. Perhaps you should have a back-up plan in case of spell disruption... (hint: Protection from Arrows lasts 1 hour / level and could easily be extended as a pre-buff.) -Jindl
Magagumo 03-07-04, 09:32 PM	@Jindl Ha, so it does! I sent you a PM by the way, feel free to respond when you get the chance.
sshuit 03-07-04, 10:31 PM	@ll : I forgot to do 1/2 damage to the shield(s) with ranged weapons my bad. I wouldn't allow it at all but both Rosella and Cat seem to agree that it is OK and they were the ones fighting. Can we get an official ruling on this? No ranged sundering on attended items?... Seems silly though. You're holding the shield up to block projectiles. I'd certainly allow ranged sunders with weapons that make sense (not piercing) slash or bludgeoning probly would make sense. sshuit
Jindl 03-07-04, 10:36 PM	The official ruling is stated in my post above. You cannot attack a held object with a ranged weapon. -Jindl EDIT: Welcome back, Tellish. :D
Tellish_of_Ket 03-07-04, 10:44 PM	I'm back actually. Got in today. What a long two and half weeks. Anyhow, i'd like to start off by moderating one fight this week. I don't have a gladiator yet, but i will post a new one soon. @Ranged-Sundering: Even though i attempted to do this in the long past i'm in aggreeance that it cannot be done. With the extra support to lend credence to the argument, it appears clear that it was mean for inanimate objects, unheld/unattended objects. -ToK
MotherBast 03-07-04, 10:46 PM	Indeed, I agree with Tellish and Jindl. The CW has a feat for attacking your oponits stuff with range weapons, so it obviously can't be done without the feat.
sshuit 03-07-04, 11:26 PM	@motherbast. Just read the CW on ranged sunder feat. I am now 100% in agreement. Ranged sundering is impossible with core rules. sshuit
JonahBlack 03-07-04, 11:55 PM	@Snarkhunter: I sent the tactics Friday night via email....I'll try PMing them.
SnarkHunter 03-08-04, 12:00 AM	Thanks Jonah, I don't know why I wouldn't have gotten them. Anyway I'll prolly be running it Monday afternoon. Edit: got em, sorry again for the confusion.
xeno_eleusis 03-08-04, 12:33 AM	Credits and buying Monster Races It seems to me that this board currently has three characters that used Moding Credits to start ECL > 2 characters with high LA Monsters. I don't know much about them, but I am interested and looking to understand the Math envolved a little more closely. Here they are: Level5 Archangel Ixidor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2726075#post2726075), Caterane: Half-Celestial human Level 1 (Pal1) Level6 Donkey (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2722513#post2722513), SnarkHunter: Ogre Cleric 1 Level8 Kiri'endelas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2727208#post2727208), Ethendril: Pixie (Sprite) Rogue 3, Sorcerer 1 [ECL 8] I read that ECL = LA + HD meaning that if you human then you get a LA of 0 and HD equal to your class level. Archangel Ixidor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2726075#post2726075), is Human/Half-Celestial (4 +0 Human +4 LA) Pal1 = 4 + 1 = ECL5 Kiri'endelas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2727208#post2727208), Sprite (4 LA) Rog3/Sor1 = 4 + 4 = ECL8 I see how you got these two ECL's but here is the problem that I am confused about. Donkey (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2722513#post2722513), SnarkHunter: Ogre (2 LA) Cleric 1 = 2 + 1 = ECL3 Am I missing something here?
Jindl 03-08-04, 12:39 AM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis [B]SnarkHunter: Ogre (2 LA) Cleric 1 = 2 + 1 = ECL3 Am I missing something here? Yep. You're missing two things. The first is that Anna, Ghost of the Arena, was the first ECL character bought with credits (sadly missing from your list... :( ) The second is that Donkey has 4 racial HD, which add to his level adjustment to give his ECL. (4 racial + 2 LA = ECL 6). Of course, Snark just bumped Donkey to ECL 7, which is why/how he added the level of cleric. -Jindl
Ethendril 03-08-04, 12:39 AM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis Credits and buying Monster Races It seems to me that this board currently has three characters that used Moding Credits to start ECL > 2 characters with high LA Monsters. I don't know much about them, but I am interested and looking to understand the Math envolved a little more closely. Here they are: Level5 Archangel Ixidor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2726075#post2726075), Caterane: Half-Celestial human Level 1 (Pal1) Level6 Donkey (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2722513#post2722513), SnarkHunter: Ogre Cleric 1 Level8 Kiri'endelas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2727208#post2727208), Ethendril: Pixie (Sprite) Rogue 3, Sorcerer 1 [ECL 8] I read that ECL = LA + HD meaning that if you human then you get a LA of 0 and HD equal to your class level. Archangel Ixidor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2726075#post2726075), is Human/Half-Celestial (4 +0 Human +4 LA) Pal1 = 4 + 1 = ECL5 Kiri'endelas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2727208#post2727208), Sprite (4 LA) Rog3/Sor1 = 4 + 4 = ECL8 I see how you got these two ECL's but here is the problem that I am confused about. Donkey (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2722513#post2722513), SnarkHunter: Ogre (2 LA) Cleric 1 = 2 + 1 = ECL3 Am I missing something here? EDIT: Already answered above. EDIT2: And below.
SnarkHunter 03-08-04, 12:41 AM	In fact Donky is ECL 7 now, he recieved his 1st level only today following his 3rd loss. Remember that ECL (effective Character Level) is equal to the LA (level adjustment) plus Hit Dice. In Donkey's case thats LA+2 and 5 HD for an ECL of 7. Mo just hasn't updated the roster to reflect this as of yet. Edit: wow people post quick these days.
Ethendril 03-08-04, 12:42 AM	Does a paladin or ranger have to be level 4 to use a wand?
xeno_eleusis 03-08-04, 12:53 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Donkey has 4 racial HDThanks, that was my question. I think that if 4 racial HD was explicitly outlined on the character sheet (that he has 4 levels as an Ogre) then it would be more clear to new folks like me.
barrel_master 03-08-04, 02:24 AM	Where is the listing for the 'Dust of Sneezing and Choaking' I can't find it. Never mind, I found it.
xeno_eleusis 03-08-04, 04:13 AM	I'm trying to understand crafting prices on CoCo It seems to me that the DMG has a base price for items and that CoCo adds 5 gp per XP that it takes to craft the item which ends up being BP x 7/10. I crafted some first level spell scrolls, like this: Magic Missile Spell level 1 Caster level 1 DMG base price 25 gp (1 x 1 x 25) XP used 25 / 25 = 1 (converted to gold 1 x 5) Raw material price cost 1/2 base price 12.5 CoCo price (Raw material price + XP converted to gold): 17.5 Correct me if I'm wrong but all crafted items follow this formula and end up being Base Price x 0.7 (BP x 7/10) 25 x 7 / 10 = 17.5 gp Here is just an example of some crafted items from Bilo Darkleaf's character sheet Headband of intellect +6*: 14,000gp Eyes of the eagle:* (eyes) Cloak of Resistance+3* (Cloak): 3,500gp Gloves of Dexterity +4*: Knecklace of Adaptation*: Boccob's Belssed Book*: 8750 *crafted Base Prices per DMG: Headband of intellect +6: 36,000 gp Eyes of the eagle: 2,500 gp Cloak of Resistance+3: 9,000 gp Gloves of Dexterity +4: 16,000 gp Knecklace of Adaptation: 9,000 gp Boccob's Belssed Book: 12,500 gp Total: 85,000 gp CoCo Price (BP x 7/10): Headband of intellect +6: 25,200 gp Eyes of the eagle: 1,750gp Cloak of Resistance+3: 4,500 gp Gloves of Dexterity +4: 8,000 gp Knecklace of Adaptation: 4,500 gp Boccob's Belssed Book: 8,750 gp Total: 59,500 gp Although many of the prices are missing from Bilo Darkleaf's character sheet, I still don't see why I can't get the same numbers that he is getting. Just show me what I'm doing wrong.
^Rayne^ 03-08-04, 04:41 AM	xeno_eleusis, I don't think you were doing anything wrong (and maybe I'm mistaken). It looks to me like you found a player cheating the system here. If that really is Bilo's character sheet and we both are not making a mistake then he has gotten waaaaaay too much for too little. Maybe it was unintentional, maybe it was planned. I don't know but if this is happening a lot then it looks like I will have to check over gear even more closely than I already do, especially when items are listed as crafted!
^Rayne^ 03-08-04, 04:57 AM	Yeah I just went over and looked at his sheet a little closer and I can't believe his PC is legal for fights! Even if he was only paying half for crafting (which isn't the right amount under the rules) that headband of intellect + 6 would have been 18,000 gp! He didn't even spend that much and the rest of his very powerful gear looks equally suspicious. I don't know how his PC got to 12th level and no Sages seemed to have caught this? This just seems very weird to me and I think the Elder 8 need to take a careful look at this PC. Gear is very important in D&D and often the right gear makes or breaks a PC. If he has been winning fight after fight with a lot of illegal use of his crafting skill I think a lot of people got cheated in their fights against this PC. I also believe if errors like this are allowed to persist many players will feel they are being wronged. This is serious and should have everyone's full attention.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-08-04, 05:32 AM	All pc's, it's time to pay the piper. And it's not just Bilo who is off. Some ppl are a little more sneaky about it by not counting spent resources from previous fights. I've reviewed some pc's LONG before that post and others know about my "audits" and that some pc's are off by as much as 20k or more at the higher levels. I believe EVERY single pc for the higher ups is inaccurate. Absolutely every single one of them have monetary errors on them. I would hate to think it's intentional so i would ask you all to please revise your character's income. There is some really blatant money spending issues going on. All in all, i'd have to say the most accurate characters are Jindl's. Congrats! Everyone else, shame on you. For shame is all i say. And it's more than just improper gold spent for items. It's items crafted without access to certain spells needed to make them. If ppl would look to Spike's character sheet and notice the "trimmed" up version of it (basically lost almost all his scrolls and gold), as he and I went over it on the weekend and realized how easy it was to make mistakes. We fixed it, but he was off my almost 7k in gold spent, and that's peanuts compared to others. I would ask all higher level characters to do the same. Mag/Mo/Cat/Snark: Your characters are horribly over-wealthed. (is that even a word? not sure) I would ask you all to please fix it and to reflect your actually purchases/spent gear and proper creation costs. -ToK
Caterane 03-08-04, 07:14 AM	@Sshuit: Well, there are quite some mistakes in it. I already posted it in the concerns thread. [list=1] Round 1: Ilene spurs her mount forward which results in a -4 penalty from moving which she didn`t suffer. None of the three arrows from round 1 should`ve hit. Round 1: You are NOT flatfooted at the beginning of the combat. Round 3: You cannot destroy a shield with a ranged weapon. We discussed this last week. I didn`t agree to that; I just thought it was clear to you AND to her, so that she doesn`t use this tactic. Bad Rosella! Bad Rosella! *scolds* Round 3: A towershield has 40 hp. Ilene`s arrows do half damage only (piercing) so I have no idea how she destroyed my shield in 1 round. In the Donkey fight she needed about 12 arrows to destroy his one. Round 3: You didn´t substract -4 for moving, again. Round 4: Ilene destroyed my heavy shield. Same as above. Round 5: Your remark is wrong. Running would result in -8 penalty. Round 6: To pinpoint a creature down to 5' you have to beat the listen check by 20, not 15. Round 7: Why did I cast silence on my pouch? I had 2 other Blindness/Deafness spells ready? Excerpt from my tactic: Excerpt from Harvester's tactic: As soon as she is blinded, cast Deafness on her until she`s blind & deaf, or I am out of blindness/deafness spells Round 7: What was that??? The Harvester tries to cast divine favor, but can't because he silenced himself DOH! Excerpt from Harvester's tactic: If she`s blinded only, cast silence on sth in my possession. She cannot see and hear me. Same as above: divine favor and arrows (DF before silence, of course). [/list=1] I won so it didn`t affect the outcome but it easily could have with so many errors in it. Sshuit, I appreciate your efforts in moderating but I put no less effort in my tactics so please familiarize yourself with them a bit better next time. Same with some of the rules. This is escpecially important since the Harvester is still unbeaten and it would be really annoying if he loses to several mistakes. Thanks for running the fight though. Cat BTW: I have a 6:0 win/loss ratio now. Mo, I pulled my hair when you told me 5:0 isn`t enough but now I am equal with Iron SO I GET THIS DAMNED ENTRY!! :smirk:
sshuit 03-08-04, 07:49 AM	Hi Cat : Here's some thoughts. Originally posted by Caterane @Sshuit: Well, there are quite some mistakes in it. I already posted it in the concerns thread. [list=1] Round 1: Ilene spurs her mount forward which results in a -4 penalty from moving which she didn`t suffer. None of the three arrows from round 1 should`ve hit. Penalty for shooting when moving is 0 for single move, -4 for double move and -8 for run. She only single moved. Round 1: You are NOT flatfooted at the beginning of the combat. Huh?... Since when? Round 3: You cannot destroy a shield with a ranged weapon. We discussed this last week. I didn`t agree to that; I just thought it was clear to you AND to her, so that she doesn`t use this tactic. Bad Rosella! Bad Rosella! *scolds* I agree with this 100%. I was misled. Round 3: A towershield has 40 hp. Ilene`s arrows do half damage only (piercing) so I have no idea how she destroyed my shield in 1 round. In the Donkey fight she needed about 12 arrows to destroy his one. Tower shield has 20 hp according to PHB page 158. Round 3: You didn´t substract -4 for moving, again. ibid Round 4: Ilene destroyed my heavy shield. Same as above. ibid Round 5: Your remark is wrong. Running would result in -8 penalty. correct. I forgot she doesn't have mounted archery. Round 6: To pinpoint a creature down to 5' you have to beat the listen check by 20, not 15. Not according to the rules posted in the COCO FAQ Round 7: Why did I cast silence on my pouch? I had 2 other Blindness/Deafness spells ready? Excerpt from my tactic: It was my error in casting silence instead of deafness. Round 7: What was that??? [/list=1] I won so it didn`t affect the outcome but it easily could have with so many errors in it. Sshuit, I appreciate your efforts in moderating but I put no less effort in my tactics so please familiarize yourself with them a bit better next time. Same with some of the rules. This is escpecially important since the Harvester is still unbeaten and it would be really annoying if he loses to several mistakes. Thanks for running the fight though. Cat BTW: I have a 6:0 win/loss ratio now. Mo, I pulled my hair when you told me 5:0 isn`t enough but now I am equal with Iron SO I GET THIS DAMNED ENTRY!! :smirk:
SnarkHunter 03-08-04, 08:07 AM	Ah sorry for the confusion-the prices listed are the difference in cost from previous versions of the item. To go from +4 to +6 is 20,000gp. Since bilo crafted it its discounted to 14,000gp. I've been careful when I was buying items to never go over what I'd won in a fight, I guess I just didn't think including the total prices was important. I can edit those in later if you want.
Jindl 03-08-04, 08:09 AM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis Here is just an example of some crafted items from Bilo Darkleaf's character sheet Headband of intellect +6*: 14,000gp Eyes of the eagle:* (eyes) Cloak of Resistance+3* (Cloak): 3,500gp Gloves of Dexterity +4*: Knecklace of Adaptation*: Boccob's Belssed Book*: 8750 *crafted Although many of the prices are missing from Bilo Darkleaf's character sheet, I still don't see why I can't get the same numbers that he is getting. Just show me what I'm doing wrong. I'll try to explain for Snark (because his prices are correct). I see he explained for himself while I was typing this... The headband of intellect had already been crafted up to a +4. To improve it to +6 has a market value of 36000 - 16000 = 20000. 0.7 x 20000 = 14000 gp to do it yourself. The Cloak of Resistance was already a Cloak +2. Improving it to a Cloak +3 has a market value of 9000 - 4000 = 5000. 0.7 x 5000 = 3500 gp to do it yourself. It is customary to only list a value next to items that you spent money on this round. That's why gp values are not listed for the eyes of the eagle, gloves of dexterity, etc. Bilo's wealth appears correct to me. However, Tellish may be correct about some other characters. -Jindl EDIT: I have just started a thread called "Character Violations". Please post any mistakes you find in a character sheet there, so that we have a central place to check and make our corrections.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-08-04, 08:30 AM	The upgrade cost is correct, but is the base price also subtracted from the total wealth? 14k is upgrade from +4 to +6. I have to admit, i didn't see this either. Bilo crafted his won +4 headband correct? Costing 11,200? The prices should be added together to show the overall value of the item and make it more readily appearent of it's upgrade. So 25,200 would be the final cost, which is the same as 36k x .7 @Snark: i don't think going back and editing everything is needed. Doing audits is a major headache. Takes me several hours just to look at one pc. I'm not gonna do any finger pointing, at least not in public. But i will e-mail individuals on a private basis as to the accuracy of their character wealth. Some are very messed up and proving difficult to tabulate accurately. Other situations are more difficult to handle because they crafted items at a certain level they were unable to craft and didn't have the money then, but to simply take away one or two thousand gold to make up for it, doesn't really make up for it if you get my meaning. These items should never have been allowed to have been crafted in the first place. I'm just hoping that in the future (starting now) we could try to "balance the books" a little better. I've set examples of this with Mike and I in how we keep track of our total wealth. By listing used/spent/sold items along with their total value and keeping links to the fights for quick and easy reference for anyone to double check. -ToK
Jindl 03-08-04, 08:39 AM	Linking the fights is a great idea. I would suggest that we strongly encourage that Players list the fight results at the end of the character sheet, with links to the appropriate fights. As for how to list the money spent, I prefer listing only what was spent this round. As a player, its much easier to look at the sheet and see what things my opponent got this round, and what things I just bought, by looking for the "gp" tags in the equipment list. -Jindl
Caterane 03-08-04, 09:15 AM	I`ve linked all my fights long ago. We should make this a requirement. Long long ago I proposed that everyone keeps a seperate post where he lists his equipment management. I use a word sheet which could be posted if requested. Still I think that should be made a requirement too. A seperate thread would be strongly recommended. I don`t like the posting of used items on sheets anyway and if every spent item will be listed the sheet grows endless. A simple link to the Equipment Management sheet would do it. Apparently we have need to do this.
Myrridin 03-08-04, 09:35 AM	I have a character ready to go for the 3/10 round of fights, and would like to be included as a mod again this week...since I'm not sure why I was left off last week.
Bishop the Bardican 03-08-04, 12:06 PM	Let me apologize for a metaboard question in COCO, but I know somebody will nelp me a lot quicker here. If we are going to require linking fights on the character, would a technologically gifted member of the Arena either explain or direct the Neanderthals to an explanation of how to link in the boards.
Druid Roxors 03-08-04, 12:37 PM	I believe it was on the main gladiator's page. Anyways. Use this line here -> <URL=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2699436#post2699436>**</URL> First, replace all <>s with []s Where you see the number 2699436, thats the number for the post which included my first fight. In order to display another thing, replace that number with the post you are trying to link. Now, to find that number. First open your "View" menu and select "Status Bar". Make sure it is active, then, pass your mouse on top of the "Quote" button at the end of this post, within the status bar, at the bottom of the screen, you will find the number you need to use. The pair of **s is the Flavor text, change it to "My character" or "That fight" or something. I hope its clear, everyone tells me that im great with technology but not a gifted teacher ;)
Druid Roxors 03-08-04, 12:44 PM	Oh, and if you are still runing the fight, make sure Corinthus moves at a straight line towards his enemy, cover comes from the wolf, not rocks and columns. <Check the post above, it was edited many times>
Ethendril 03-08-04, 12:54 PM	Aiki Auk vs. Angosh posted.
Jindl 03-08-04, 01:04 PM	Roster / Pairings / Graveyard / Funny Useless Stats - Are all updated. Please check the roster to make sure your gladiator's info is correct ... -Jindl
kattattack22 03-08-04, 01:08 PM	Yes, linking fights is great idea. Yes, Used items is kind of unnesscary to for the standard sheet and maybe should be put elsewhere I also propose linking roleplay stuff on your character, just for fun, not required or anything. It will make it easier for people to follow their favorite characters. Maybe we could get character specific fan clubs going too?
Myrridin 03-08-04, 01:09 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Roster / Pairings / Graveyard / Funny Useless Stats - Are all updated. Please check the roster to make sure your gladiator's info is correct ... -Jindl I've mentioned it twice, and if I'm incorrect, someone please correct me. But I believe I should have 1 credit as a mod. The first week I had 2 characters fighting, and ran 1 fight, no credit. The second week I had 1 character fighting, and ran 1 fight, I should have 1 credit from that, right? My character looks fine though, thanks Jindl.
Caterane 03-08-04, 01:31 PM	@Jindl: :thumbsup: Great work! I also like the FUS update except that the Harvester is not in there. Best Starters: Iron the Panza - 6:0 Alathar Vierce - 5:0 Harvester (2nd) - 6:0 but not even in there. I am equally good as Iron and better than Alathar Vierce so I definately should be in there. The section is called "best starters" and if 6:0 is not a good start, I don`t know what else is. We can make a list out of it to show that Iron was first there but one shouldn`t be discriminated just because another one was first there. Harvey and Iron did EQUALLY well. Just because Iron was first would be unfair. Time is not an issue. HARVESTER FOR BEST STARTER SECTION!! :rant:
barrel_master 03-08-04, 01:32 PM	On the whole equipment thing. Is it really neccessary? Are people really wanting to win so much that théy're willing to cheat? Honestly, does win<=>fun to everyone on this board?
kattattack22 03-08-04, 01:40 PM	Does anyone know what will fit in the Quiver of Ehlonna's medium sized compartment? It says about javelin size things, but how big is that? Would I be able to fit more quarterstaves or clubs in there? (looking at the 3.0 PH pictures quarterstaves look about the same size as a javelin. I don't know what 3.5 PH shows since I left it at school and I am home on spring break.
Magagumo 03-08-04, 01:55 PM	@ Tellish My system is the same as Snark's I only record what new items I have upgraded/bought, and only what was actually spent to make/upgrade them. That way, I can ensure that I am accurately chaning my gold from round to round. I promise you my totals are correct, as Bruno almost never uses any item, and I carefully have been reocrding the cost of every item I make or purchase each week. Also, i believe I have all the requisite spells for making my items (Bear's Endurance, Cat's Grace, Fox's Cunning, Resistance, Clairauidence/Clairvoyance, Secret Page) I believe that covers those crafted items, my scrolls obviously corresponding to my spell list. I Know its easy to make mistakes, but I hoenstly have been keeping good track of this, I was a High School Class Treasurer for 3 years ;)
Caterane 03-08-04, 04:27 PM	Has anyone a cool picture for an undead zombie dragon?
Rosella 03-08-04, 04:33 PM	Draco1 (http://www.manor.nm.ru/bottom/undegrnd/dracolich.jpg) Draco2 (http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ilovedragons/images/Blue___Dracolich.jpg) Draco3 (http://pobladores.lycos.es/data/pobladores.com/dr/ag/dragonlich/channels/eternitynight/images/dracolich2.jpg) Edit: linked instead for datastream purposes.
Caterane 03-08-04, 04:43 PM	@Rosella: :inlove: Edit: Perhaps better remove the pics again or link them. Not everyone might have broadband connections
Beldin 03-08-04, 04:48 PM	*Aeomon enters the Tavern and goes strait to the Harvester's chair, looking up to the huge ... thing.* "I'm new here. Can you help me" *no answer* ... "anyone else?" Thx Beldin
Caterane 03-08-04, 04:59 PM	Speaking of pictures: I have one for Zippy the wondercorn and one for Monkbane Sir Zippy (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Unicorn.jpg) Monkbane (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Pegasus.jpg)
Bishop the Bardican 03-08-04, 05:33 PM	Enilias Surion, Kaigan vs Corinthus Avius, Druid_Roxors version 3.0 is up. It became quite a close battle. @Durid_Roxors Thanks for the link information.
Caterane 03-08-04, 05:37 PM	@Beldin: Welcome to the Aren...Core Coliseum. I guess you already know the basics; I`ve seen you around for some time. Any questions, just ask. Cat
xeno_eleusis 03-08-04, 06:35 PM	Ready for 03/10/04 "Be it Boo's or Praise, I will be mighty"
MotherBast 03-08-04, 06:51 PM	I have a question about Anna's Gorgon. The MM states that Gorgon's are impossible to calm, or to domesticate. Since it isen't possible to even calm the creature, how could Anna possably train it? And if she did, then it would be a domesticated gorgon, which is an impossibility as well. Plus, the gorgon also says it attacks on sight. Seems every time Anna tried to train it, it would simply attack her untill she put it down or it collapsed of exaustion.
sshuit 03-08-04, 07:00 PM	@motherbast. Re : Domesticated Gorgons The sooner you give up on any semblance of reality or common sense, the sooner you can understand how things work in the core arena :P
xeno_eleusis 03-08-04, 07:09 PM	Originally posted by Beldin "I'm new here. Can you help me"@Beldin, welcome. It's good to see people who use the subraces, I've always favored the Duergar but because of the Daylight thing, I don't think one would do well here. I think that the build you posted is accurate, no errors that I could find from a quick look. Here are some suggestions Mostly stuff that I was told about my first build Speed: 30 (base 30, no armor, 24.5 lb light load, 0-100/101-200/201-300) {B}{U}Titles and tags in bold underline help Mods find stuff{/U}{/B} -- replace those {} with [] -- Also add a {FONT=courier new} tag at the top of your build and a {/FONT} at the end for readability When you multi-class without taking ranks in your racial Favored Class (In this case Wood-Elfs Favor Rangers) then you will have to keep each level in each class one appart, example: Rog2/Ftr1 -- no penalty -- Rog3/Ftr4 -- no penalty -- Rog3/Ftr5 XP Penalty to cash prize Rog5/Ftr4/Rng3 -- no penalty, Favored Class! --
xeno_eleusis 03-08-04, 07:10 PM	-- duplicate post --
Druid Roxors 03-08-04, 07:34 PM	Thanks Bishop for running the fight. It ran more smoothly than the last ones. Although, I hate to do this to you but, please check This (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2794977#post2794977) out...
Battousai2005 03-08-04, 08:45 PM	@Jindl: Check out p. 4 of the roleplay thread. Mustiado has a few, ah, interesting posts.:)
Caterane 03-08-04, 08:45 PM	Arti, today`s your big day Open poll: Improved natural attack debate (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2795841#post2795841) Please read the introduction first!! Cat
^Rayne^ 03-08-04, 08:49 PM	Question for everyone here. If a PC has the ability to fly (with wings, good manuverability) can they only fly at their base speed or can the do double moves and running distances with their flying ability. I sort of get the impression they can only go as fast as their flight speed unless they are flying down which is double and up speed is half their base speed. Can anyone tell me if there is such a thing as double moves and run speeds for flying PC's? Thanks for everyone's help. Rayne
Caterane 03-08-04, 08:52 PM	Double move: yes, run: no
Battousai2005 03-08-04, 08:53 PM	@Cat: What's the point of asking the Elder Mods to vote? We already know their decisions on it.
Caterane 03-08-04, 08:58 PM	I know. My first poll version didn`t include them but I don`t see the current poll development until I have voted myself. I could click on poll resuls but that`s longwinded. They voted 4:4 so it won`t influence the polls anyway ...and they`re members too.
^Rayne^ 03-08-04, 08:59 PM	Not to mention the elders will cancel each other out. I guess this might be important if they change their vote, but if they were going to do that then why did the poll start in the first place? Caterane thanks for the flying info. ;)
Caterane 03-08-04, 09:01 PM	Yeah, he-who-never-sleeps. Hm, perhaps we could say that the Elder Mods should vote "Abstain". This way they don`t influence the poll and can still watch the polls develop. Yes, sounds good to me. We will do it from next poll on because I already voted. Hm, 4:1. Guess who`s the 1 :rolleyes:
Coyote Skyheart 03-08-04, 09:46 PM	Helloo everyone! If I understand right, we can ask questions here. Here's a newbie question! Actually credit goes to Nivek, who asked me something similar online, and I didn't know (hi Nivek). If you want to sell something after you level, say, cash in that magic (or normal) chain shirt for studded leather when your dex bumps up to 20, can you sell it? For how much? Question of my own. Can one earn money from a craft or profession over time? Because if so, I want to become the arena's most highly skilled painter! :D And no, I won't pull any Dan Brown stunts, though it might be kind of fun...(ever read the Da Vinci Code?)
Druid Roxors 03-08-04, 09:56 PM	@ Caterane: could you please add me to the Moderator's list, I feel ready to Mod/God/FM/DM/GM/etc...
Kaigan 03-08-04, 10:12 PM	@All: I would like to start moderating this week if possible and if there are not too many moderators. If there are too many, then just reply and say no, that i can't moderate. Thanks
Jindl 03-08-04, 10:14 PM	@Battousai - Yes, I've noticed that the druid seems to have some sort of parasitic fungus attached to him. Perhaps a liberal use of fire seeds would handle it? Re: Run while flying From the MM, pg 312: "A creature can use the run action while flying, provided that it flies in a straight line." [sorry Cat.] @Druid + Kaigan - I'll add you to the list before I do pairings on Wed. Pleae PM me with your email address. FYI: Cat and I will be splitting time as roster keepers. I handle all roster stuff on the weekdays (Mon - Thur), and he takes the weekends (Fri - Sun).
xeno_eleusis 03-08-04, 10:21 PM	@All, I would like to volunteer to Mod for 10/3 and I want to post a new build tonight ECL2 for the pairings. Does anyone know what the situation with Mods are? My understanding is that the problem is when Mods don't have new characters run a fight each week. Please let me know if I can post a new build, and possibly if I can Moderate a fight this week.
^Rayne^ 03-08-04, 11:40 PM	I'm still working on the Dra'kel vs Ilixor battle but hopefully I'll have it up VERY late tonight. ;) Sorry about the delays but it will be up soon. :)
Mustadio[MoF] 03-08-04, 11:57 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Battousai - Yes, I've noticed that the druid seems to have some sort of parasitic fungus attached to him. Perhaps a liberal use of fire seeds would handle it? not likly, Pard has the amazing ability to ignore even the most obvious messages to leave. You can ask Battosai :D Hmm... probly the best way to loose him would be to..... fly... alot.... very high up... maby... if your lucky.... very lucky
Battousai2005 03-08-04, 11:57 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Battousai - Yes, I've noticed that the druid seems to have some sort of parasitic fungus attached to him. Perhaps a liberal use of fire seeds would handle it? Hmmm. nope, wouldn't help. Perhaps a temporary destruction of memory might help. but then again, maybe not. of course, i need artavian to kill someone for no other reason then to join the assassins guild. maybe that has potential;)
Jindl 03-09-04, 12:44 AM	Originally posted by Mustadio[MoF] not likly, Pard has the amazing ability to ignore even the most obvious messages to leave. You can ask Battosai :D Hmm... probly the best way to loose him would be to..... fly... alot.... very high up... maby... if your lucky.... very lucky I was not suggesting that I would be telling him to leave. To the contrary, I would either: 1. Incinerate him to ash with a 13d6 fireseed. 2. Balefully polymorph him into a rabbit, then slowly cook him in his own juices over a roaring flame before feeding him to my dire bat. 3. Summon a swarm of centipedes to slowly devour his flesh before offering his bones to the bonesnatchers guild for a few coppers. Don't mistake my Nuetrality for friendliness or patience. Nature is savage, and so am I. -Jindl of the High Forest
kattattack22 03-09-04, 01:12 AM	Appartently, no one knows what about javelin size is or has problems with Ony putting quarterstaves in the medium compartment of his Quiver of Ehlonna. Just a warning to those with sundering builds Ony now has 25 quarterstaves and quickdraw, Hoo-haw!
SnarkHunter 03-09-04, 01:30 AM	Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart If you want to sell something after you level, say, cash in that magic (or normal) chain shirt for studded leather when your dex bumps up to 20, can you sell it? For how much?[b] You sell items for half their market price. Note what is sold and the price it was sold at on your character sheet. I think this is buried somewhere in the FAQ. Question of my own. Can one earn money from a craft or profession over time? Because if so, I want to become the arena's most highly skilled painter! :D Sadly in our little arena it works some thing like this; "I have crafted something, it costs me half as much as whatever anyone else buys!" "But now I don't need it anymore" "And so it is sold...for half price" "And I spent 55gold on the artisan tools" *weap* @Kat: I think that would be ok, though I suspect the quiver was intended to store ammunition... Err also when i said I'd get my fight in sometime Monday, I defenitly meant to say, "Tuesday afternoon". Sank you.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-09-04, 01:51 AM	Is there an admission charge? I would pay to see this fight. An invisible silent summoner vs an invisible silent ghoster. I think after the fight, the moderator should collect $5.00 from paypal from anyone who wishes to read it and then put the money in a FM-account. Save it up eventually for our own server/domain/internet line/ip class. -ToK
Jindl 03-09-04, 02:02 AM	Zorander vs Jagath is posted. I'm sure its fraught with errors, but its quite late here. I'll try to make any necessary corrections tomorrow. @Snark - Posting the fight on Tuesday will earn you a negative credit, my friend. @Tellish - If it is to be a battle of spot / listen, then Anna is up for it :D -Jindl
cellardweller 03-09-04, 02:16 AM	Settled then. Johan challenges Anna. May she find peace at last.
^Rayne^ 03-09-04, 03:56 AM	Urrrgh, :( Sorry to players of Ilixor vs. Dra'kel, it looks like I won't get it wrapped up tonight. I will commit my efforts tomorrow to finishing it up and getting it posted so you both can finally see the conclusion to the battle. Please be patient I'll try to work in a better story since you both are having to wait soooooo long for this. I'm going to go get some sleep now before my morning meeting. Rayne
Tellish_of_Ket 03-09-04, 04:25 AM	Originally posted by cellardweller Settled then. Johan challenges Anna. May she find peace at last. I am breaking out the pop-corn already in anticipation of this one. *EDIT* after taking a quick peek at the role-play section, WOW. The challenges are flying left/right/center. So i decided to throw in my own challenges -ToK
Jindl 03-09-04, 07:58 AM	Originally posted by Mustadio[MoF] Jindl: *grabs some holly seeds from his pouch* Pard: I don't know, Spiderman would have to eat an awful lot of iron for that. Jindl: *takes a step to the side and tosses the holly berry bomb at Pard* (8+13 = 21dmg save - fail) Better try: "Jindl: *grabs a single acorn from his pouch and speaks a few unintelligible phrases* Pard: I don't know, Spiderman would have to eat an awful lot of iron for that. Jindl: *takes a step to the side and tosses the flaming acorn at at Pard* (Touch Attack roll 20! Threatens, 10 +10 vs Touch AC 12, crits. Damage is 26d6 = 104 points.)"
Battousai2005 03-09-04, 09:56 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Better try: "Jindl: *grabs a single acorn from his pouch and speaks a few unintelligible phrases* Pard: I don't know, Spiderman would have to eat an awful lot of iron for that. Jindl: *takes a step to the side and tosses the flaming acorn at at Pard* (Touch Attack roll 20! Threatens, 10 +10 vs Touch AC 12, crits. Damage is 26d6 = 104 points.)" owwwwwwwwwwwww. Umm. Well. If he gets raised, its not gonna help ya. Ive tried that.
Jindl 03-09-04, 10:17 AM	@Nivek - You must mark your character as "Ready for 3/10" in the post subject in order for the [OK] to be listed next to him on the roster, and in order for you to be included in pairings. @All - Characters with mistakes listed on the "Character Violations" thread will not be included in pairings until those mistakes are corrected. @cellardwellar - Challenge accepted. But, you need to take a look at the "Character Violation" thread, since Johan is currently in violation (he can't have a permanent see invisibility). Also, this is an odd level, so either you or I will roll out this week. So, if we don't get to do it this level, then we will next time. @kattattack22 - Quarterstaves are 2 handed weapons, javelins are one handed weapons. They are not the same size. The quarterstaves can only fit in the largest compartment of the quiver (as noted in the item description). -Jindl
Arstimis 03-09-04, 10:24 AM	Could everyone that votes, please make a post as Cat has asked. There are 23 votes, and only 18 people have said they voted, it would be helpful to make sure only the people involved in the arena voted, and not people that randomly visited this placed Edit: Now out of the last four votes, only no one has posted, and it has been against Improved Natural attack. Maybe if they put what they said in thier post, it might be easier to check for validity The thing with this voting system, is it makes it easier, but it takes the validity away, because people like Joseph Kell ( no offense, or accusations) coudl come in here and vote, and no one would know
Caterane 03-09-04, 12:30 PM	@Jindl: :eek: You updated the inactive list. If Mo asks I say I didn`t see you around :D No seriously, I would`ve done this as my first deed on friday. @Arty: Thanks for the support. You`re exactly saying what concerns me. If this new active poll system isn`t going to work (it`s 23 votes vs 18 voters) then we have to return to more mundane means like you described and like it worked in the old polls thread back in the Arena. This would be a pity because I like the new poll system very much. I think that the extra votes come either from outsiders or from members who forgot to make a post but just in case that someone here`s exploiting the system: come on guys, this is not a Kindergarten class where we have to make sure there`s no way to "get off the route". It`s neither funny nor fair nor anything but just annoying and forcing us to a more mundane system instead of using the polls. You might`ve influenced one poll but that surely doesn`t pay off, because it will be a one-shot pony for the price of a nice system. Cat
Arstimis 03-09-04, 12:35 PM	Ya...i really liked the new system, I only wish there was a way for it to show who had voted or not
Ethendril 03-09-04, 12:35 PM	Excerpt from the Book of prophesies: …that will happen in the sky... like the collision of two stars that do not fall down... it will frighten ALL creatures regardless of where one happens to be at the time... it will be a thousand times worse than earthquakes... like a fire that will not burn our flesh... it will last a very short time, although to us it will seem to be a very long time... no one can prevent it from happening... IT WILL BE RECOGNISED AS COMING FROM THE GODS... it will resemble a punishment... it is meant to be a purification... like the revelation of our sins and what we will feel in our hearts will be worse than sorrow. It will not kill us, if we die it will be caused by the emotion within us. The date was not revealed only that it will happen after the battle of dusk against dawn. TRAIT…TOR! YOU…WILL…PAY…FO……” and with these words Dusk [the Adamant] fell silent forever. ”MWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA CHAOS WILL ALWAYS TRIUMPH OVER LA…..” were the final words of Babar the Dawn as his many wounds proved too much for even a creature of this endurance. As the prophesies stated, Dusk the Adamant fell silent forever. But in his place rose a powerful humanoid with bronze, scaled skin, and sharp claws and fangs. In Dusk the Adamant's place came Dusk, Talon of Bahamut, now a true half-dragon and champion of Bahamut. His coming heralds the institution of good and order among the dragons, and Gorga will be destroyed, and Babar brought within Bahamut's law. [@ Mo, Jindl, and Cat: Dusk the Adamant is now retired, and I'm spending credits to create Dusk, Talon of Bahamut. I will still have only one active character, but you can choose to have Dusk or Kiri fight, so if either level is uneven, just use my characters to even out levels.]
kattattack22 03-09-04, 12:58 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @kattattack22 - Quarterstaves are 2 handed weapons, javelins are one handed weapons. They are not the same size. The quarterstaves can only fit in the largest compartment of the quiver (as noted in the item description). So, other one handed weapons should fit, yes? Originally posted by Snark @Kat: I think that would be ok, though I suspect the quiver was intended to store ammunition... Intentions, bah! The COCO needs some creative solutions. Besides, I have seen this quivers used to carry many things, most times they are not even weapons.
Bishop the Bardican 03-09-04, 01:26 PM	The Quiver of Ehlonna can hold six items of the same general size and shape as a quarterstaff. The only items that would fit in the javelin compartment would be items of the same and shape (clubs, halfspears, darts, smokesticks) (not: handaxes, flasks of alchemist's fire, shurikens). We need a reverence for the work that game designers and testers did to create a balanced system, not "creative solutions".
Jindl 03-09-04, 01:58 PM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis @All, I would like to volunteer to Mod for 10/3 and I want to post a new build tonight ECL2 for the pairings. Does anyone know what the situation with Mods are? My understanding is that the problem is when Mods don't have new characters run a fight each week. Please let me know if I can post a new build, and possibly if I can Moderate a fight this week. Sure, I'll add you to the moderators list. Send me your email (via PM). Go ahead and post your new character as well. I don't think we have a problem with moderators at the moment. -Jindl @ Rayne - Okay, I'll switch your status.
^Rayne^ 03-09-04, 02:06 PM	Elder 8, I'm only going to fight with Vryk this week (and alternate kobolds for awhile, so Aiki will have an off week) and I would like to be removed temporarily from the moderator list for awhile. I've got to finish the fight between Ilixor and Dra'kel still, but after that I will take a break from moderating for a bit. It just takes too much time for me to run these fights and I would rather run with one PC a week for awhile till I'm ready to moderate again. Rayne
Caterane 03-09-04, 02:58 PM	Originally posted by Joseph Knell Caterane, I know you only want people playing to vote, but what about people that come later? Shouldn't they get to vote now if they had thoughts of playing or mastering at a later date? I think the best thing for such a poll is to invite everyone over from the C.O. board and ask each of them to vote once. If you join within the week of the poll I`ll add your gladiator to the roster and your name to the poll list. Then - as an active member - you`re of course invited to make a vote. I just listed the names to have an overview and to make sure everybody understands who is meant by the House of Commons.
kattattack22 03-09-04, 03:14 PM	Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican We need a reverence for the work that game designers and testers did to create a balanced system, not "creative solutions". The creative solutions was in reference to using the Quiver of Ehlonna for more than ammo, which was intended otherwise why would they put a compartment for staves and bows? Edit: Thinking about it, solution was a poorly chosen word, more like creative use for an item. Like using an Instant Fortress to smush your enemies by dropping it on them.
SnarkHunter 03-09-04, 03:52 PM	Voliana fight up. I hope you folk didn't expect much, but if nothing else it was very straight forward. spoilers below, highlight if you want to see them The fight was over after the 1st round, I just didn't feel like typing out exactly what happens. A few notes, The sleep arrows do not function as the sleep spell, thus it can affect people with more then 5 HD and loud noises can wake them. But, Grim had a net -2 to his check and Voliana a +16. So only on a 20 and 1 respectivly would he have awoken. Just moving accross the arena it will never happen with distance penalties and what have you. So that one listen check in round 2 was basicly Grims only chance to hear and awaken. And he didn't make it. So that's about that then, good fight.
Rosella 03-09-04, 03:52 PM	Can somebody give me the 3.5 description of the quiver of ehlonna, or is that the new efficient quiver?
Jindl 03-09-04, 03:58 PM	Efficient quiver = quiver of Ehlonna. Yes, they are the same item. -Jindl FYI: With Snark posting that fight, there is only one fight left.... ^Rayne^ !!!
MotherBast 03-09-04, 04:21 PM	Hey Cat, about the Polls. An easy solution might be to simply require anyone that votes to make a single post, listing what they voted for. At the end of the poll, if the number of votes doesn't match all who voted, then the unacounted for votes are ignored. So, for the current poll, 4 votes would be unaccounted for, and of the 4, 4 would be against INA, and at the end of the poll, if the voter had not declared themself for each votes, those votes simply wouldn't count. I'm with you in that one or two of these is probably from someone who voted, and then just forget or missed posting. The others are probably from outside sorces just trying to tamper with us. [edit]Oh yeah, someone is tampering with the poll. Since I posted the above, 2 more votes were cast for NO, both without an accompanying post..... It seems the evil outsiders of Arena world wish to tamper with the lives of the mortals withen.
Bishop the Bardican 03-09-04, 04:56 PM	I voted no without posting a reply. I will go make a reply now.
Arstimis 03-09-04, 05:26 PM	Yes, please. Everyone that votes in the polls, please make a post, and put Yes, No, or Abstain in the post Edit: Current Count. 29 votes, 24 posted voters
sshuit 03-09-04, 05:40 PM	@snarkhunter. Nice fight. No errors I could detect :D I have to say that those sleep arrows are the best investment Voliana ever made. :b:
sshuit 03-09-04, 05:48 PM	Would it be possible to allow normal ammunition (arrows, sling stones, bolts) to be repaired for free by the arena blacksmiths also? I'm just sick of accounting for 0.05GP increments. I honestly don't think it would affect anyone negatively. Magic arrows etc. would still be costed normally.
Caterane 03-09-04, 06:07 PM	@Rayne: I don`t want to rush you but tomorow is pairings day and I really don`t want to have Ixidor sit out a week. Waited for too long already to get all those credits. @Jindl: In case of a victory Ixidor will do a monster fight so it shouldn`t be a problem that Rayne is late because the monster fight could be set on thursday or friday even. If Ixidor lost I fear he has to sit out a week :( because I won`t return until tomorow late. Edit: The first poll is finished and decided. Couldn`t be any clearer: First poll (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197339) :angel:
Arstimis 03-09-04, 06:46 PM	@Lokathor: First of all, it`s "spells and effects" Secondly, your vote doesn`t count because you`re not in the list Third, you`re free to post a character thus sign on as a member of the Coco (and making your vote valid; I`ll add your name in this case). Fourth, any discussion --> Tavern or PM me Thanks, Cat First of all, effects isnt defined, so it needs to be defined by examples...and the dictionary.com definition would suggest that feats is a pretty clear type of effect. Secondly, you beat me to sayint that Cat
Caterane 03-09-04, 06:49 PM	Effects don`t work in antimagic fields. If a feat is an effect you would lose Powerattack and Expertise in such a field or dead magic zone. Secondly, it is defined in the PHB, p176. But let`s stop this discussion. We already had that. Many seem to agree that a feat is an effect; perhaps some of the Yes-Voters might even think it`s a spell :(
xeno_eleusis 03-09-04, 07:01 PM	@Jindl, email is sent. I just posted a new build. Evil Tiefling Wizard: Jaydai Please let me know if there are any errors. I have never build a character with a Level Adjustment. My understanding is that at ECL2 he is a Level 1 Wizard with 1 HD and max 4 ranks in skills and thus treated as a level 1 character but at ECL2.
Ethendril 03-09-04, 07:50 PM	Now that there's plenty of space for FUS (Funny Useless Stats), it would be fun to add the following useless info: Strongman: Donkey 27 str Quick hand: Bilo 26 dex Ironman: Ixidor 20 con Genius: Bruno 28 int Astute: Johan 24 wis EDIT: sorry, cellardwellar. I think I got the highest in each category. It's useless, but fun.
cellardweller 03-09-04, 08:13 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Astute: Jindl 21 wis Pfft Astute: Johan 24 wis
xeno_eleusis 03-09-04, 09:03 PM	@Mercy Question about the Duergar. Are they affected by Daylight that lights up the Coliseum?
^Rayne^ 03-09-04, 09:29 PM	The coliseum is supposed to have muted lighting conditions (it does have a roof at 155') that doesn't affect any creature with Light Sensitivity. I'm sure this means Duergers are not affected adversly by the light in the arena. Cat: I'm trying to get it done. It just keeps going and going. Darn you people and your long range attacks! ;) I've been working on it for many hours now and hopefully it will be done soon.
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 09:46 PM	@ Mods: you can prebuff yourself if you cast a spell with a duration larger than 15 hours right?
Arstimis 03-09-04, 09:48 PM	16 hours i think
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 09:54 PM	Well, the real question was, Can you use control weather if it lasts 25hrs+ and not loose the slot? (druids get a duration of 8d12 on this spell). Thus giving a little spice to the fight by worsening conditions for all sides or advantageous lightning strikes. Could make fights intresting!
Mercy 03-09-04, 10:07 PM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis @Mercy Question about the Duergar. Are they affected by Daylight that lights up the Coliseum? I believe ^Rayne^ is correct, creatures that with Light Sensitivity are not affected by the normal conditions of the arena.
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 10:16 PM	Originally posted by Mercy I believe ^Rayne^ is correct, creatures that with Light Sensitivity are not affected by the normal conditions of the arena. Indeed, I believe Its written on the Tournament Rulles somewhere...
^Rayne^ 03-09-04, 10:44 PM	I'm sure the information about light is as I said. The info was given to me by big MO himself. ;)
Battousai2005 03-09-04, 10:59 PM	Now here is a debate worthy of the Arena! Ok, so my friends and i got to talking. Having no lives, we naturally began with Dnd. A question came up about unusual creatures. More specifically, a centaur. The question was this: does a centaur use boots or horse shoes. I have absolutely no idea myself. Wonder if someone would be so kind as to tell me?
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 11:06 PM	how Philosophic, how profound... how Intriguing... I have no idea. LOL
Arstimis 03-09-04, 11:10 PM	Horshoes, cause its got hooves
Battousai2005 03-09-04, 11:11 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis Horshoes, cause its got hooves yah, but the problem is that it is a humanoid(sorta) So does this mean that a centaur character is forbidden from boots?
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 11:17 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 yah, but the problem is that it is a humanoid(sorta) So does this mean that a centaur character is forbidden from boots? In fact, isn't it a montrous humanoid?
kattattack22 03-10-04, 01:05 AM	From the old polls in the COCO FAQ & Rules thread 23. Do you think that the horseshoes of speed are race specific or type specific? Possible answers: race (horses only), type (animals only), no. [closed: the answer is hooved] There you have it, centaurs can wear horseshoes of speed. Note: There was a huge debate on this a month or two ago. If anyone cares to read of any of it look through the old Tournament thread I believe around page 160. I know it was fairly early in my still short Arena career. Maybe someone else, who actually cared about the debate, remembers where it can be found better than I do.
Pittbull 03-10-04, 03:22 AM	Is there any halfdragon, who wants to challange Angosh? I'd like to see if Angosh is able to stand this firepower (6d8 electricity).
^Rayne^ 03-10-04, 05:28 AM	Ixidor verses Dra'kel is now posted. I am very very sorry it is sooo late. I wanted to add a ton more to it but at 54 moderated rounds I just was exhausted after finishing it all. I'm aware that there may be errors and to both players I am sorry for any mistakes I made. If I have to go back and look at it again I will. Also I did include character sheets with some errors I noticed highlighted on them. Unfortunately when I posted the fight the fight was litterally thousands of letters too long and I ended up having to delete both sheets just to post the fight in one post. If you would like to see your sheets and the notes I made please let me know. I can send them to you with the changes I made that were necessary for the fight. (For example Dra'kel was using rock for his sling ammo, this actually lowers the damage one level and gives a -1 modifier to attacks. This did affect your attacks and was listed in the character sheet by me.) You can't see changes like this from the fight posting so let me know if you want to see them. I'll send them to you via email or PM (your choice). Sorry again for the long wait. In all honesty this fight took me over 14 hours to moderate over the last few days. I know that is a rediculous amount of time but I try to be careful and it was just so darn long!
LLMadCow 03-10-04, 06:21 AM	Quote by ^Rayne^ Also I did include character sheets with some errors I noticed highlighted on them. Unfortunately when I posted the fight the fight was litterally thousands of letters too long and I ended up having to delete both sheets just to post the fight in one post. If you would like to see your sheets and the notes I made please let me know. @^Rayne^ - Go ahead and follow the fight with the posting of the character sheets. We need to be able to see what the opponents were dealing with. @All - Always remember to post the character sheets with the fights, and if the fight takes up more than one post, go for it. We have all the room we need, what matters is that we post everything needed to meet the requirements of Running the Fights. Imagine if we held Caterane to a limit of one post per fight!
Caterane 03-10-04, 06:47 AM	Originally posted by Ethendril Now that there's plenty of space for FUS (Funny Useless Stats), it would be fun to add the following useless info: Strongman: Donkey 27 str Quick hand: Bilo 26 dex Ironman: Ixidor 20 con Genius: Bruno 28 int Astute: Johan 24 wis EDIT: sorry, cellardwellar. I think I got the highest in each category. It's useless, but fun. I like that idea! Let`s make it so. Always this discriminating Charisma :D
Tellish_of_Ket 03-10-04, 07:07 AM	Originally posted by Pittbull Is there any halfdragon, who wants to challange Angosh? I'd like to see if Angosh is able to stand this firepower (6d8 electricity). You can issue a challenge to Dusk on the role-play thread. Also, you have two other challenges there awaiting replies. You seem to be a popular fellow at that level. -ToK
Jindl 03-10-04, 08:53 AM	Originally posted by kattattack22 There you have it, centaurs can wear horseshoes of speed. Note: There was a huge debate on this a month or two ago. If anyone cares to read of any of it look through the old Tournament thread I believe around page 160. I know it was fairly early in my still short Arena career. Maybe someone else, who actually cared about the debate, remembers where it can be found better than I do. Actually, the final result was hooved animals. Centaurs meet one criteria but not the other. -Jindl
Caterane 03-10-04, 09:39 AM	Hooved animals? Why should a centaur or a pegasus be unable to profit from it? That`s too much sticking to wording in a badly worded description. I would say, hooved quadraped (don`t think I`m biased; Nightingale flies anyway). Perhaps the Council should make a final decision here. When do you plan to do the pairings?
Arstimis 03-10-04, 09:44 AM	Come on....think logically now. Centaurs have hooves, they have to wear horse shoes. Animal or not, they cant put shoes on hooves. Edit: OK, everyone that has doing/is going to do th e polls has to make a post, and put Yes, No, Abstain in there post. There have only been 26(27 if you count market share...but you still need to make a post) legal voters, but there are 33 votes cast in the polls...something is really wrong. The vote only has a 2 point difference, so this could swing it either way. Please...post or i dont think your vote will count
Bishop the Bardican 03-10-04, 10:00 AM	I asked on this thread a few days ago about wizards paying 50gpxspell to copy a spell from another wizards spellbook. Many people told me that this was allowed, but now my character is listed as having a violation. I know Jindl is the rules lawyer and if he posts it, it is so, but I was told that I could do it. What is the official position? Does a wizard have to pay for scrolls or can they copy from a spellbook. I just can not believe that multiple magic items can be crafted in a week, non-CORE. Whereas, I can not use a CORE method of obtaining spells. I think it should be illegal to copy from another gladiator and start an inter-gladiator spell market. I mean are we debating whether to let Arti's monk do 3d6 damage per attack at 8th level, and something clearly spelled out in the PHB is not allowed. @Jindl I am pretty sure there is something that I am missing, but I had to make my argument first.
Battousai2005 03-10-04, 10:01 AM	Originally posted by Arstimis Come on....think logically now. Centaurs have hooves, they have to wear horse shoes. Animal or not, they cant put shoes on hooves. Edit: OK, everyone that has doing/is going to do th e polls has to make a post, and put Yes, No, Abstain in there post. There have only been 26(27 if you count market share...but you still need to make a post) legal voters, but there are 33 votes cast in the polls...something is really wrong. The vote only has a 2 point difference, so this could swing it either way. Please...post or i dont think your vote will count @Cat: I don't suppose that there is a way to make sure that only specific people can vote, is there @Arstimis: Yah, but it is actually strange that I remember somewhere that familiars can wear rings even if they don't have toes. I dunno if this has changed or not. Still, a centaur is a monsterous humanoid. It doesn't say anywhere in the MM whether or not to treat them as a horse or human as far as some equipment goes. Still, I'd like to see what happens to the poor human who suggests a saddle:D
Hatzinger 03-10-04, 10:04 AM	I back Arschtemis on this one. If a centaur has to choose between wearing boots and horseshoes, that is a nonquestion to me.:rolleyes:
Bishop the Bardican 03-10-04, 10:10 AM	Another idea about rules questions. Has anyone thought about assigning a few people to summarize our rules questions and submitting them to "Ask the Sage". I have the feeling that polls will lead to popular, but unbalanced house rules entering COCO.
Caterane 03-10-04, 10:11 AM	@Cat: I don't suppose that there is a way to make sure that only specific people can vote, is there The most easiest way would be if the Wizos enable me to modify the polls. That way I can not only check who voted but can also throw illegal voters voices out. The second less elegant option would be to have everyone require to make a post with their respective decision but in this case the poll "click" system would be completely unnecessary. @Jindl: Speaking of our GM abilities... are you able to edit/delete others posts in your threads? This definately falls into our range of options (even WizO Shadow told me so) but I can`t do it. I wanted to clean the polls thread from unwanted replies.
Arstimis 03-10-04, 10:20 AM	Ok, go take a look at the centaurin the MM. Its bottom half is a horse, treat everything that would go on a centaur's bottom half as it would a horse. ie horshoes and saddle :P Its has the top half of a humanoid. It can therefore where gloves, rings, and everything else a humanoid could normally where on its top half. and it can where a belt A centuar can where everything that a normal human could with the exception of its feet. There would have to be hooves. Could you imagine a centaur with 4 shoes, haha Edit: the only question i might have about a centuar is armor...half nomal half barding...what? Polls:I think the easiest way would be to keep the cool new poll system up, but also have everyone post a vote, if they want to be heard. That way in case the clicking polls is messed up, it can be checked by the posts. I wouldnt mind checking the posts to make sure its all counted right
Pitlords 03-10-04, 10:33 AM	Pairings are under way... No more editing of character sheets.
Hatzinger 03-10-04, 10:45 AM	brilliant idea to take the MM from the bookshelf and actually use it. take a :cookie: i´d say that satyrs should be able to use horseshoes, too; albeit at half price for having only two hooves. :D
Bishop the Bardican 03-10-04, 11:00 AM	Since we now have two democratic bodies, the House of Elders and the House of Commons, we might follow the Roman flavor of having the word "colisseum" in our name. The Council or House of Elders could be the Senate. What was the name of the lower body that represented the common people during the Republic? What do people think?
Caterane 03-10-04, 11:10 AM	Hm, Senate sounds cool. Another roman expression would be Triumvirate (Caesar, Crassus, Pompeius): Mo, Jindl, Cat :D Hey, I just came up with a good Fight Master name: Pitlord!
Hatzinger 03-10-04, 11:17 AM	:bounce:
Bishop the Bardican 03-10-04, 11:18 AM	@Mo Once you are busy with your new job, and there are new people who have never seen your posts and fights, you will become Romulus, legendary founder of the Core Colisseum. Were you raised by wolves? There have been some rumors.
Hatzinger 03-10-04, 11:32 AM	the part with the wolves came later. the oldest legend goes like this: the brothers were found and raised by a poor sheperd and his wife, who gave them milk. the wolves part came with a word-game because his wife was, as legend goes, a part-time prostitute. (latin-speakers: compare "female wolf" with "prostitute" and laugh here, pls.) the roman beginning wasn´t very glorious...
Caterane 03-10-04, 11:36 AM	It`s one of my favorite topics. A pity the Empire fell. After the fall there was nearly no progress for 600 years, and even more than 1000 years after that they hadnt achieved everything the Romans had. If they only had the Coco's Triumvirate *sigh*
Hatzinger 03-10-04, 11:47 AM	bah. the empire had to fall. too inflexible system. they never adapted from "city-state" to "empire". and were eaten up by powerful interest-groups. just like today.
Caterane 03-10-04, 11:54 AM	Consider the time! No other nation achieved something similar back then. Not even the ancient Greeks who fell to Rome too. I wonder what would`ve happened if the Roman Empire would still exist. I imagine a united world, one language, one folk. Something even we are far removed from today.
Pitlords 03-10-04, 11:54 AM	Pairings are Done No more editing of character sheets. Send tactics to your Pitlord before Friday. (@Cat - I like that new name, and I think we should implement it.) -Jindl
Bishop the Bardican 03-10-04, 12:01 PM	@Hatz You seem to be the resident Roman scholar. What was the name of the lower body? There were two brothers who fought for reforms for the poor that were later killed that had been members of this body. We still need a name for the House of Commons.
Myrridin 03-10-04, 12:08 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Consider the time! No other nation achieved something similar back then. Not even the ancient Greeks who fell to Rome too. I wonder what would`ve happened if the Roman Empire would still exist. I imagine a united world, one language, one folk. Something even we are far removed from today. China had a vast empire that was further advanced than Rome's. While Rome did a wonderful job copying other countries ideas, the Chinese were actually creating things. (see gunpowder)
Hatzinger 03-10-04, 12:19 PM	:devil: Myrridin, you da man!
Jindl 03-10-04, 12:20 PM	Please allow me to comment on many of the current discussions/questions: Originally posted by sshuit Would it be possible to allow normal ammunition (arrows, sling stones, bolts) to be repaired for free by the arena blacksmiths also? I'm just sick of accounting for 0.05GP increments. I honestly don't think it would affect anyone negatively. Magic arrows etc. would still be costed normally. Unfortunately, no. Used ammuntition is a used resource, just like scrolls that were cast and potions that were drank. Let's not open the door on this. Just buy some more arrows. Originally posted by xeno_eleusis @Mercy Question about the Duergar. Are they affected by Daylight that lights up the Coliseum? All environmental effects in the Collisseum are nuetral, unless a character actually casts a spell or does something to change that. So, the light in the arena is not enough to hinder those with "Light Sensitivity", and the ground contains enough grass for entangles, and the rocks are also trees for use with tree stride, etc. Originally posted by Druid Roxors Well, the real question was, Can you use control weather if it lasts 25hrs+ and not loose the slot? (druids get a duration of 8d12 on this spell). Thus giving a little spice to the fight by worsening conditions for all sides or advantageous lightning strikes. Could make fights intresting! Yes, you can prebuff with control weather, but only if the Pitlord rolls a long enough duration (ie. the 8d12 >= 16 hours.) However, all prebuffs with a set duration (be it 16 hours or 16 days) count against your available spell slots. Only prebuffs with durations of "permanent" or "until discharged" can be used without a cost to spell slots. Of course, if you use a scroll/wand with no chance of failure that has a duration of 16 hours, then you could save a spell slot ... (ie. Wand of Longstrider - CL16)... Originally posted by Caterane Hooved animals? Why should a centaur or a pegasus be unable to profit from it? That`s too much sticking to wording in a badly worded description. I would say, hooved quadraped (don`t think I`m biased; Nightingale flies anyway). Perhaps the Council should make a final decision here. The answer is right in the SRD. "Horseshoes of Speed: These iron shoes come in sets of four like ordinary horseshoes. When affixed to an animal’s hooves, they increase the animal’s base land speed by 30 feet; this counts as an enhancement bonus. As with other effects that increase speed, jumping distances increase proportionally. All four shoes must be worn by the same animal for the magic to be effective." It says "animal's hooves" and the vote confirmed this. I'm not debating whether a centaur can wear horseshoes, but the fact that it is not an animal means it cannot activate the horseshoes of speed. The previous vote confirmed this (animal type and hooves). Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican I asked on this thread a few days ago about wizards paying 50gpxspell to copy a spell from another wizards spellbook. Many people told me that this was allowed, but now my character is listed as having a violation. I know Jindl is the rules lawyer and if he posts it, it is so, but I was told that I could do it. What is the official position? Does a wizard have to pay for scrolls or can they copy from a spellbook. I just can not believe that multiple magic items can be crafted in a week, non-CORE. Whereas, I can not use a CORE method of obtaining spells. I think it should be illegal to copy from another gladiator and start an inter-gladiator spell market. I mean are we debating whether to let Arti's monk do 3d6 damage per attack at 8th level, and something clearly spelled out in the PHB is not allowed. @Jindl I am pretty sure there is something that I am missing, but I had to make my argument first. This is something that the Elder 8 need to discuss and vote on. I was against it, as there is RP involved in finding a wizard to copy from, but others are for it. It really doesn't matter to me which way it goes, but the Elder 8 does need to vote to determine how the Colliseum will handle this. -Jindl
kattattack22 03-10-04, 12:43 PM	Posted by Jindl Actually, the final result was hooved animals. Centaurs meet one criteria but not the other. Maybe should fix that in the FAQ and Rules. It just says hooved. @newer people- Anyway, it has all ready been decided. Please don't start this debate again.
Hatzinger 03-10-04, 01:05 PM	Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican What was the name of the lower body? There were two brothers who fought for reforms for the poor that were later killed that had been members of this body. We still need a name for the House of Commons. Tiberius Sempronius Graccus and his younger brother Gaius Sempronius Graccus. the council of the people with its comitias (esp. comitia centuriata). I think this is what you are speaking of. they decided about war and peace; the election of the highest magistrates...
SnarkHunter 03-10-04, 01:06 PM	Oh gosh Illene again... Somehow I doubt a single level of cleric will help against her and her pegasus.
Jindl 03-10-04, 01:10 PM	@Snark - Look on the bright side ... at least she can't sunder your tower shield with arrows again. @kattattack22 - Fixed the ommission on the FAQ. Thanks. -Jindl
Caterane 03-10-04, 01:12 PM	Look on the bright side ... at least she can't sunder your tower shield with arrows again. Yeah, but I bet 10 bugs that she`s writing it in her tactics even as we talk :nonono:
sshuit 03-10-04, 01:25 PM	Could we make a little change to pairings? Roger is supposed to fight Kiowen and so Pale Rider has to sit out. Since Roger has lost 3 in a row I can just bump him and Pale Rider can fight with Kiowen instead if you like. Otherwise I did accept Pale rider's challenge so if Roger is going to fight someone it was supposed to be him.
Jindl 03-10-04, 01:43 PM	Lvl 8 is an annoying level for pairings. It was an odd #'d level, so the doesn't fight roll takes precendence over any challenges. The initial doesn't fight roll selected Zippy to be out, but that would have resulted in Pale vs Kiowen, which was the same match-up as last week. So, I overrided the first roll, and did a new doesn't fight roll to determine whether Zippy would fight Pale or Kiowen. Sadly, this has to take precendence over challenges. Now that the pairings are finished, I would ask you to go with them as they are. If I change them to bump Zippy, then Pale and Kiowen would have to have an instant rematch (they just fought last week), I would have to change the credits because the # of pc's would change for Market and for sshuit, and I would have to re-roll the doesn't fight roll for 10th level, which would have further changes. That's too much to change... so please let them stay as they are. Should Zippy lose, he can bump next week. If he wins, I'm sure he'll get another chance to face Pale-Rider, especially given how successful the necromancer has been in the past. -Jindl
Arstimis 03-10-04, 02:10 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Yes, you can prebuff with control weather, but only if the Pitlord rolls a long enough duration (ie. the 8d12 >= 16 hours.) However, all prebuffs with a set duration (be it 16 hours or 16 days) count against your available spell slots. Only prebuffs with durations of "permanent" or "until discharged" can be used without a cost to spell slots. Of course, if you use a scroll/wand with no chance of failure that has a duration of 16 hours, then you could save a spell slot ... (ie. Wand of Longstrider - CL16)... If you have a prebuff that lasts 17 hours, does that mean it will only last 1 hour of the fight? The answer is right in the SRD. "Horseshoes of Speed: These iron shoes come in sets of four like ordinary horseshoes. When affixed to an animal’s hooves, they increase the animal’s base land speed by 30 feet; this counts as an enhancement bonus. As with other effects that increase speed, jumping distances increase proportionally. All four shoes must be worn by the same animal for the magic to be effective." It says "animal's hooves" and the vote confirmed this. I'm not debating whether a centaur can wear horseshoes, but the fact that it is not an animal means it cannot activate the horseshoes of speed. The previous vote confirmed this (animal type and hooves). Ok, so what are centaurs going to wear?.....boots of speed? I sure hope not..that would look pretty funny to me. Or since they cant where shoes, and the cant where horseshoes, is the shoe slot taken away from them?
kattattack22 03-10-04, 02:15 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger Tiberius Sempronius Graccus and his younger brother Gaius Sempronius Graccus. the council of the people with its comitias (esp. comitia centuriata). I think this is what you are speaking of. they decided about war and peace; the election of the highest magistrates... @Hatzinger - I think he was being more general and looking at the Plebian Assembly (comitia plebis tributa or concilium plebis) @Caterane - There was some advancement after the fall of the Roman Empire. Advancements particulary in farming techniques such as crop rotation. Granted, most of this occured in the High Middle Ages (late medieval period). I am separated from my notes on these things so I may be a bit off. When I am back at school next week I can double check my old notes and books to give more info. BTW, I am history major. Can you tell? Edit: @sshuit - I sent tatics for Ony versus Grimlock. Edit: @Jindl - No problem.
sshuit 03-10-04, 02:56 PM	@jindl That's fine with me. I was just thinking that Kiowen could fight in Roger's place and roger could sit idle. Even if it is a rematch kiowen would at least get to fight. I don't think any other changes would need to be made. *shrug* sshuit
Arstimis 03-10-04, 02:59 PM	I dont really want to fight Pale-Rider again, right away....i bet i could guess who wins..... Edit: oh..and how long have Mo's character been inactive...cause if Babar was fighting, that would have given Pale-Rider someone to fight
Jindl 03-10-04, 02:59 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis If you have a prebuff that lasts 17 hours, does that mean it will only last 1 hour of the fight? Prebuffs are assumed to be able to last the entire fight. If a fight ever goes beyond 1 hour, then both players should lose. Originally posted by Arstimis Ok, so what are centaurs going to wear?.....boots of speed? I sure hope not..that would look pretty funny to me. Or since they cant where shoes, and the cant where horseshoes, is the shoe slot taken away from them? Not to be silly, but yes, centaurs can wear boots of speed. Simply put, magic items adjust to fit the wearer (unless those items are limited - like the horseshoes of speed). Boots of speed are not limited and thus they will adjust to fit any wearer - so they can be worn by anything with feet, even Iron's megaraptor. If you want to visualize how they magically adjust, can you picture what baseball socks look like? (I'll try to link a picture). -Jindl
xeno_eleusis 03-10-04, 03:03 PM	I know Boafer rolled out this week for ECL3 but I was wondering why no one is fighting Aiki Auk, ^Rayne^. If ECL3 has an even number of Gladiators, I don't understand why anyone needs to roll out?
Arstimis 03-10-04, 03:05 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Not to be silly, but yes, centaurs can wear boots of speed. Simply put, magic items adjust to fit the wearer (unless those items are limited - like the horseshoes of speed). Boots of speed are not limited and thus they will adjust to fit any wearer - so they can be worn by anything with feet, even Iron's megaraptor. If you want to visualize how they magically adjust, can you picture what baseball socks look like? (I'll try to link a picture). -Jindl I just think that sounds kinda funny...Can anyone else picture a Centaur wearing socks? Edit: I dont think a Centaur could where boots. Because when the DMG explains Magic Items on the Body (pg 214), it explains that those are lists for humanoid bodies. A Centaur doesnt have a humanoid lower half, so i would assume they would not get the normal lower half item slots. That, and where it says boots or shoes, it specifally says worn on the feet. A Centaur doesnt have feet, so they couldnt be worn. Also, it would require 4 boots rather than 2, as a Centaur is a quadraped. So...it seems a Centaur cant where shoes. So unless we were allowed to make custom items, which we arent, a Centaur will never get horshoes or boots of speed I know Boafer rolled out this week for ECL3 but I was wondering why no one is fighting Aiki Auk, ^Rayne^. If ECL3 has an even number of Gladiators, I don't understand why anyone needs to roll out I think it is because Rayne only wanted to fight with one character, so he could gain credits
xeno_eleusis 03-10-04, 03:12 PM	by Arstimis I just think that sounds kinda funny...Can anyone else picture a Centaur wearing socks? I think it is because Rayne only wanted to fight with one character, so he could gain creditsI see, thanks. But it's sad when you have to sit out. I guess Boafer will just have to grace the Tavern with more Dwarf jokes.
Arstimis 03-10-04, 03:24 PM	Paul Hector, barrel_master vs Voliana, sshuit: Arstimis Ahhh....Jindl, please no. I just modded my first fight last week, and that was against 2 of my friends, and i didnt have the trouble of interpretting tactics. I would really only want to do 1 fight. I could do up to a level 3 fight, but i doubt i should do a higher one. Also, i dont really want the credits, i just want to break even. A level 7 fight for me Jindl...what were you thinking :P please...could someone else take it...or something... Edit: Since this will be Battousai's first week modding, i could trade him fights. he could take my level 2, and i will take his level 3 fight
Jindl 03-10-04, 03:25 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis I just think that sounds kinda funny...Can anyone else picture a Centaur wearing socks? Edit: I dont think a Centaur could where boots. Because when the DMG explains Magic Items on the Body (pg 214), it explains that those are lists for humanoid bodies. A Centaur doesnt have a humanoid lower half, so i would assume they would not get the normal lower half item slots. That, and where it says boots or shoes, it specifally says worn on the feet. A Centaur doesnt have feet, so they couldnt be worn. Also, it would require 4 boots rather than 2, as a Centaur is a quadraped. So...it seems a Centaur cant where shoes. Horses wear socks all the time, though they are usually open on the bottom. They even call them "booties"... A centaur does have feet, it has 4 of them, thus the definition of "quadraped" {quadra - 4, ped - feet}. In non-Core WoTC products (splats, modules, and supplements), such situations are handled by wearing the boots on either the front or the back pair of feet. Nothing says that you must have boots on all of your feet for the magic to work, simply that you must wear both boots for the magic to work. And before anyone asks, no a centaur can't wear magic boots on both its front and its back feet. It is still limited to one pair of boots, just like a Xill is still limited to only 2 rings (despite it having 4 arms). -Jindl EDIT: @Arstimis - You have been participating in the arena for quite some time, so I figured you could handle it. But if you don't want it, perhaps someone would trade with you, or perhaps someone who wants another credit would take it... -Jindl
Arstimis 03-10-04, 03:34 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Horses wear socks all the time, though they are usually open on the bottom. They even call them "booties"... A centaur does have feet, it has 4 of them, thus the definition of "quadraped" {quadra - 4, ped - feet}. In non-Core WoTC products (splats, modules, and supplements), such situations are handled by wearing the boots on either the front or the back pair of feet. Nothing says that you must have boots on all of your feet for the magic to work, simply that you must wear both boots for the magic to work. And before anyone asks, no a centaur can't wear magic boots on both its front and its back feet. It is still limited to one pair of boots, just like a Xill is still limited to only 2 rings (despite it having 4 arms). Well..i wouldnt count what horses where as socks...and definately not for a slotted item in D&D, as they could be pulled up quite high. I guess for an RP or just visual factor we could consider the "socks'' to be the same as boots of speed for hooved non-animals (including satyrs). But the clicking of the boots of speed together might be difficult. Also..i think for quadraped's it should be worn on all four, just for balance. Im sure its just as hard to run with 2 out of 4 boots, as it would be to run with 1 out of 2 boots. EDIT: @Arstimis - You have been participating in the arena for quite some time, so I figured you could handle it. But if you don't want it, perhaps someone would trade with you, or perhaps someone who wants another credit would take it... -Jindl I would like to give it a try...but i dont think a level 7 fight is what i should be doing....I would be happy doing a level 3 (traded with Battousai) and a level 4, or another level 3.... maybe Ethendril will trade me.....or maybe Cat, for the level 5 fight. My own fighter just got out of level 7....
xeno_eleusis 03-10-04, 04:22 PM	Question about pairings and Character sheet freeze I never completely understood this about the freeze on editing character sheets. After pairings Can you: 1) scribe scrolls 2) buy additional gear 3) sell gear 4) Change equipment carried 5) Change 1/2 memorized spells if you already posted them all.
MotherBast 03-10-04, 04:27 PM	1) NO 2) N0 3) NO 4) NO 5) NO, and this one should never come up. You only have to post half your spells, so why post them all? But, If you do post them all, you must use the spells posted. This is to prevent people from posting all there spells to make the opponit think they have one tactic in mind, then changing half the spells to carryout a different tactic. Basicly, after parings, the only thing you may change about your character is to send your Pitlord corrections to any errors on your sheet in your tactics.
Caterane 03-10-04, 04:30 PM	Tactics for the Harvester and Archangel Ixidor (who`s male BTW, Rayne) sent.
xeno_eleusis 03-10-04, 04:36 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast 1) NO 2) N0 3) NO 4) NO 5) NOThanks. I completely understand now.
sshuit 03-10-04, 04:45 PM	Waiting to find out who to send tactics from Voliana to. Tactics for Roger sent. Tactics from Ony received. Still need tactics from Grimlock sshuit
Arstimis 03-10-04, 05:18 PM	I really dont think i can handle a level 7 fight yet. It would be only my second modded, my first in which i have to interpret tactics. Could maybe Cat (5th level fight) or Ethendril (3rd level fight) trade me....please
Beldin 03-10-04, 06:01 PM	tactics for aemon have been send
Jindl 03-10-04, 06:02 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis I really dont think i can handle a level 7 fight yet. It would be only my second modded, my first in which i have to interpret tactics. Could maybe Cat (5th level fight) or Ethendril (3rd level fight) trade me....please I'll step in and assign that fight to Tellish. He is well acquanted with sneaky types and doesn't have a fight to mod this weekend (he gets credit for one for all his work with auditing). So, I'm sure he can handle it. I'll remove a credit from Arstimis and add a credit to Tellish. -Jindl
Arstimis 03-10-04, 06:06 PM	Thank you Jindl
Druid Roxors 03-10-04, 06:35 PM	COWARD!! Jk Anyways, - Tactics Sent to Battousai for Corinthus - Tactics Recieved from Bishop the Bardician for Fargus.*
Arstimis 03-10-04, 06:39 PM	Tactics for Kiowen sent to SnarkHunter
Ethendril 03-10-04, 07:15 PM	@Cat: I was just wondering, what's the relationship between Harvester's weapon named Ixidor's Point and Archangel Ixidor?
Rosella 03-10-04, 07:23 PM	Tactics sent for Ilene! Somehow Donkey has managed to find his way to my couch again even though I changed the locks! (This might have something to do with the door missing) And yes, I did write about our wedding picture! :angel:
Coyote Skyheart 03-10-04, 07:26 PM	I'm not sure who approves the character sheets before pairings are made, but I want to apologize in advance: I'm going to have to make some big revisions to my character before it will be ready tonight. Thanks to those in the violations thread who spotted my one little mistake. I forgot I wouldn't be able to level again in monk...(monk1/sorceror1)...since I was only planning on having two monk levels anyway, I'm adjusting it to (monk2). Same character, but fairly major revision in terms of equipment, etc. that will work in a battle. I'll post here again when its ready. Again, I'm sorry, and I hope it gets approved in time before pairings.
xeno_eleusis 03-10-04, 07:33 PM	Jaydai's Tactics from xeno_eleusis - ECL2 10/03/04 - sent to Arstimis
Arstimis 03-10-04, 07:36 PM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis Jaydai's Tactics from xeno_eleusis - ECL2 10/03/04 - sent to Arstimis Recieved
xeno_eleusis 03-10-04, 07:37 PM	aemons tactics vs nivek recived from Beldin
Coyote Skyheart 03-10-04, 07:42 PM	Hey, waitasecond...you've already done pairings?! *grumble* oh well. Seems I'm odd-man out anyway. posted the char last saturday, now I'm gonna have to wait yet another week...
SnarkHunter 03-10-04, 08:02 PM	It happens to the best of us Coyote. One of the perks of being a mod is you have more then one character at most times, so your less likely to be odd man out...usually Tactics sent for Donkey. Recieved for Kiowen and Roger.
Alterlat 03-10-04, 08:40 PM	@ MarketShare & Cat: I posted an urgent question about the Jagath vs. Spike fight in the Character Violations thread. Please check it out.
Battousai2005 03-10-04, 08:53 PM	Tactics recieved for Corinthus Avius.
^Rayne^ 03-10-04, 09:05 PM	xeno_eleusis: Aiki is actually 4th level now. He got bumped after losing three consecutive matches in the arena but I haven't updated him yet since I decided not to make him active this week. Also I wasn't holding back my PC so I could gain extra credits. I did it so I wouldn't lose credits and so I wouldn't have to run a match this week. Caterane: I was guessing on the sex of your PC since it wasn't anywhere on your character sheet. However I thought I referred to him as a male throughout the fight thread? Maybe somewhere I didn't? In any case I am curious why your PC (Ixidor) had two feats instead of 1? A second level paladin doesn't have two feats and your PC did. It never affected the fight but this was one issue I didn't get to show in my fight post because I had to drop the Character sheets to post it all. Sorry about messing up the sex of your PC. I thought it was a male in the end and I thought that is how I referred to him.
Battousai2005 03-10-04, 10:02 PM	using 3 credits, created Aloran Swiftrunner, the centaur ranger. Check it!
Battousai2005 03-10-04, 10:10 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis the only question i might have about a centuar is armor...half nomal half barding...what? I believe this qualifies as unusual armor listed in the PHB
cellardweller 03-10-04, 10:24 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 using 3 credits, created Aloran Swiftrunner, the centaur ranger. Check it! psst! Centaurs are ECL 6 due to 4 HD
Battousai2005 03-10-04, 10:29 PM	Originally posted by cellardweller psst! Centaurs are ECL 6 due to 4 HD It lists in the MM level adjustment +2... I did take the racial hit die away. dont know if that changes anything
Druid Roxors 03-10-04, 10:32 PM	According to official sourcebooks (savage species) you can create characters without using the racial hitdie. BUT, every level gained must be placed into "monstrous humanoid" or "humanoid" etc Before you can use any standard class. In other words, that is illegal.
SnarkHunter 03-10-04, 10:34 PM	Right-well it does. In that you can't. Much as I'd like to have my 27str Ogre at 3rd level then 7th. mmmmm. Anyway got to run them straight from the book. @Rayne: I believe thats the human bonus feat? I think the base race is human anyway.
Battousai2005 03-10-04, 10:37 PM	centaur deleted
Druid Roxors 03-10-04, 10:38 PM	Sorry Battousai but you should have asked earlier. :)
Battousai2005 03-10-04, 10:43 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Sorry Battousai but you should have asked earlier. :) No prob. now i get to try another build i've been meaning to give a test run. Now i pose a question: Since a lance can be wielded in one hand while mounted, can you use two?
SnarkHunter 03-10-04, 10:58 PM	Yes, and in fact this is what Moon-moon does to get full advantage of power attack when charging. The animated shield helps though.
Battousai2005 03-10-04, 11:02 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Yes, and in fact this is what Moon-moon does to get full advantage of power attack when charging. The animated shield helps though. Ah, good. A build i may yet have fun with!
Jindl 03-10-04, 11:41 PM	Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart Hey, waitasecond...you've already done pairings?! *grumble* oh well. Seems I'm odd-man out anyway. posted the char last saturday, now I'm gonna have to wait yet another week... Ack, sorry about that. I saw that you had changed your status to "Not ready"... Be aware that pairings will occur Wednesday morning. So you should really have your character finalized by Tuesday night. Don't worry, I'll make sure you get paired next week. In the meantime, if someone posts a new 2nd level character by Friday, I'll give you and that player the option of fighting each other this weekend. (And I'll make Arstimis run the fight). -Jindl
^Rayne^ 03-11-04, 12:23 AM	@Rayne: I believe thats the human bonus feat? I think the base race is human anyway. The race is half-celestial thought not human. So how does that work that the PC would be treated as a human for feats. It isn't treated that way for skills or favored class. So how is it that the half-celestial gets a human's bonus feat at first level?
kattattack22 03-11-04, 12:58 AM	posted by ^Rayne^ The race is half-celestial thought not human. So how does that work that the PC would be treated as a human for feats. It isn't treated that way for skills or favored class. So how is it that the half-celestial gets a human's bonus feat at first level? That is because the race is not half-celestial. It's half-celestial/half-human. Half-celestial is a template that is applied to a base creature and has aspects of both. Generally templated creatures gain lots of new abilities and lose little or nothing of their original abilities, especially the half-breed templates. The main templates that make creatures lose abilities and whatever else are undead templates like vampires or skeletons. So, the half-celestial template gives a lot of neat stuff like immunities, resistances, SR, DR, and the human half contributes the extra feat. For more specifically, see below. From 3.5 SRD HALF-CELESTIAL No matter the form, half-celestials are always comely and delightful to the senses, having golden skin, sparkling eyes, angelic wings, or some other sign of their higher nature. CREATING A HALF-CELESTIAL "Half-celestial" is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature with an Intelligence score of 4 or higher and nonevil alignment (referred to hereafter as the base creature). A half-celestial uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Size and Type: The creature's type changes to outsider. Do not recalculate the creature's Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged. Half-celestials are normally native outsiders. Speed: A half-celestial has feathered wings and can fly at twice the base creature's base land speed (good maneuverability). If the base creature has a fly speed, use that instead. Armor Class: Natural armor improves by +1 (this stacks with any natural armor bonus the base creature has). Special Attacks: A half-celestial retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains the following special abilities. Daylight (Su): Half-celestials can use a daylight effect (as the spell) at will. Smite Evil (Su): Once per day a half-celestial can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD (maximum of +20) against an evil foe. Spell-Like Abilities: A half-celestial with an Intelligence or Wisdom score of 8 or higher has two or more spell-like abilities, depending on its Hit Dice, as indicated on the table below. The abilities are cumulative Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable once per day. Caster level equals the creature's HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based. HD Abilities 1-2 Protection from evil 3/day, bless 3-4 Aid, detect evil 5-6 Cure serious wounds, neutralize poison 7-8 Holy smite, remove disease 9-10 Dispel evil 11-12 Holy word 13-14 Holy aura 3/day, hallow 15-16 Mass charm monster 17-18 Summon monster IX (celestials only) 19-20 Resurrection Special Qualities: A half-celestial has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities. - Darkvision out to 60 feet. - Immunity to disease. - Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and electricity 10. - Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more). - A half-celestial¡¦s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. - Spell resistance equal to creature¡¦s HD + 10 (maximum 35). - +4 racial bonus on Fortitude saves against poison. Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +4. Skills: A half-celestial gains skill points as an outsider and has skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier) x(HD +3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation the half-celestial gains outsider skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature's list as class skills, and other skills as cross-class. Challenge Rating: HD 5 or less, as base creature +1; HD 6 to 10, as base creature +2; HD 11 or more, as base creature +3. Alignment: Always good (any). Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +4.
^Rayne^ 03-11-04, 01:52 AM	I see you have proof and that goes over my arguement but I do want to say one thing on behalf of my arguement. If this rule is the case then Half-elves get screwed on the feat issue. Fine if they lose the extra skill but losing the extra feat bites. Personally I think a Half-Celestial gets enough bonuses and shouldn'g get teh feat to, but my argument is based on opinion not on the facts (as the appear to be layed out) so I will have to agree. Thanks for showing me the argument. By the way anyone who wants to be paired up against Aiki Auk next week, he is ready to go for his first 4th round match. I know everyone will rush to challenge since he appears to be the easiest gladiator in the arena to beat so far. Still I hope some of the additions and improvements will prove to be a bit more challenging this go around. Rayne
Tellish_of_Ket 03-11-04, 01:53 AM	All my tactics are sent. Silencius goes to Myrridin and Druid got Dominicus's tactics. -ToK
kattattack22 03-11-04, 03:23 AM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ I see you have proof and that goes over my arguement but I do want to say one thing on behalf of my arguement. If this rule is the case then Half-elves get screwed on the feat issue. Fine if they lose the extra skill but losing the extra feat bites. Personally I think a Half-Celestial gets enough bonuses and shouldn'g get teh feat to, but my argument is based on opinion not on the facts (as the appear to be layed out) so I will have to agree. Thanks for showing me the argument. 1) Yes, half-elves get screwed. :rant: I don't know why anyone plays them. You are better off playing a human or an elf not the POS half-breed. To be true half-elves they need bonuses vs. sleep, and req. 6 hours of sleep/trance. I try to fix this in my campaign by giving half-elves either longbow or longsword prof. and it really hasn't a made a difference. I have 2 half-elves characters the game I run and the change affects neither of them (a monk/druken master and sorceror/fighter/arcane archer). Better yet, go with the munchkin method of half-breeds and give them the qualities of both, then there might be a reason to play a half-elf instead of having a character try to spawn them. 2) The half-celestial gets a ton of stuff, but loses four HD for it. that is why Ixidor when he began had about 15 hp. So, they are a little weak if you can actually hit them with something they don't have a defense against.
^Rayne^ 03-11-04, 03:31 AM	I ran that fight with Ixidor and from where I was sitting, missing the extra hitdice wasn't and issue at all. That PC looked super uber from my seat. When I compared Dra'kel and Ixidor before I started running the match I knew Dra'kel was in deep, deep trouble. Being able to fly in early levels is in itself and enourmous advantage at this stage. To fly as well as a Half-Celestial which is amazing you can't ask for much better than that. Immunities and spell like abilities and tons of other fun make them incredibly powerful without the extra hitpoints. Now had Dra'kel had a longer range weapon like say a bow? The fight would have turned out a lot different (this same problem occurred to my PC Aiki in the ring with Aku). That said the tactics for Dra'kel seemed to miss the fact that Ixidor could fly and had the player been better prepared you may be right that a half-celestial's lack of hit dice might have been a much much bigger issue. Who knows?
kattattack22 03-11-04, 03:35 AM	I am just saying there some balancing factor and its isn't just HD, but everything else lost from the LA. Class abilities, saves, skill points, etc. Its just an exchange for some different abilities that are very good.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-11-04, 05:15 AM	@Jindl: I remember reading something a few pages ago about Aku using Anti-Magic field while shapeshifting and staying buffed. I'm just wondering how he's gonna accomplish this as Anti-Magic field is a burst emanation centered on you and anything within the area is affected...and that includes Aku. Just curious, or is there something i'm missing? -ToK
Jindl 03-11-04, 08:29 AM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket @Jindl: I remember reading something a few pages ago about Aku using Anti-Magic field while shapeshifting and staying buffed. I'm just wondering how he's gonna accomplish this as Anti-Magic field is a burst emanation centered on you and anything within the area is affected...and that includes Aku. Just curious, or is there something i'm missing? -ToK Mastery of Shaping works on emanations too. So I can shape a hole in the antimagic field where Aku can stand, thus his buffs work normally. Of course, it costs me 3 feats and a 7th level spell slot to get the ability, but I think it will be worth it. -Jindl
Myrridin 03-11-04, 09:10 AM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket All my tactics are sent. Silencius goes to Myrridin and Druid got Dominicus's tactics. -ToK Tactics received from Tellish of Ket
Bishop the Bardican 03-11-04, 10:16 AM	I now know why I could not remember the name of the lower body in the Republic. My subconscious mind had blocked it. I went to a very traditional, all-boys secondary school that loved Roman history. I spent my first two years there being referred to as a "Plebian" or "Plebe". Please, have mercy on my soul and do not let me be a "Plebian" again. Anything else, Centurion, Puella Romana, Fluffy Bunny EDIT: Tactics for Jo'li, Mercy received
Jindl 03-11-04, 11:08 AM	Monster Fights Okay, so monster fights are becoming more common. I think this is good for the Collosseum. But I have a question to pose, regarding how monster fights are handled. Under our current system, a character challenges the monster, defeats it, and then uses an established method to control it (animate it through animate dead, tame it through handle animal, etc.) But, if you look at the fights, the monsters are at a disadvantage due to one main reason ... lack of treasure. Take Bruno's recent fight against the Storm Giant. Now, I don't know how many of you have played in high level campaigns, but my DM would never let us encounter a Storm Giant who had no equipment. Indeed, his treasure listing would have likely included several potions, gold enough to have nicer weapons, and possible some woundrous items. Having these items can make the challenge more appropriate for the creature. I think the potential to have treasure it can use is part of the CR which is assigned to a creature. So, my question to you, is should we have the Pitlord randomly roll treasure appropriate to its MM entry (using the online roller and the DMG tables) and then allow the monster to use whatever treasure it can? If the answer is yes, then the Pitlord would do this ASAP after pairings, and provide that information to the player, so that the player will know the monster's equipment while writing his own tactics (to make it the same as a PvP match). Barring any major disagreement, I plan to test this out in the Harvester #2 vs the Very Young Red Dragon fight this week. This will make a good test, as the Harvester #2 is Level 8 and the Dragon is CR 5. What are everyone's opinions on this? Please post your responses on the "Treasure for Monsters" (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=199166) thread... -Jindl
Hatzinger 03-11-04, 11:13 AM	another possible solution would be to use the "NPC wealth by level" table in the DMG.
Myrridin 03-11-04, 11:28 AM	Bishop: Did you get the tactics I send you? ToK: I have your tactics. Kaigan: I'm waiting for tactics from you.
Jindl 03-11-04, 12:38 PM	If you want a good laugh, look at the Gladiators thread, page 2, at the border between Caterane's characters and my characters... Which one is which, I wonder? -Jindl
Caterane 03-11-04, 12:49 PM	@Cat: I was just wondering, what's the relationship between Harvester's weapon named Ixidor's Point and Archangel Ixidor? Hehe, that`s a story for the future. A quasi deity like Harvester and an Archangel could know each other, friends? Enemies? Who knows ;) I ran that fight with Ixidor and from where I was sitting, missing the extra hitdice wasn't and issue at all. That PC looked super uber from my seat. Uhm,...sorry? Now had Dra'kel had a longer range weapon like say a bow? Other tactic then. I plan to test this out in the Harvester #2 vs the Very Young Red Dragon fight this week :(
Bishop the Bardican 03-11-04, 01:28 PM	Tactics Recieved: Myrridin and Mercy Tactics Sent: Druid Roxors and Battousai
Druid Roxors 03-11-04, 01:30 PM	Tactics Recieved: Tellish_of_Ket and Bishop the Bardician Tactics Sent: Battousai
Pittbull 03-11-04, 02:11 PM	Tactics have been sent. Let's see, if it'll be Angoshs big day of revenge!!!!
sshuit 03-11-04, 04:57 PM	Still waiting on Grimlock's tactics. ASAP please!.. If I don't have them tomorrow I won't be able to run the fight until Sunday Night. sshuit
xeno_eleusis 03-11-04, 05:29 PM	@Hatzinger, still waiting on tactics.
Hatzinger 03-11-04, 05:47 PM	@xeno: tomorrow morning...
Bishop the Bardican 03-11-04, 05:51 PM	Zephin Telloran, Myrridin vs. Jo'Li, Mercy is posted. Let me know if there are problems.
JonahBlack 03-11-04, 06:50 PM	@sshuit - Sorry, I can't use (re: abuse) the internet at work anymore, so my time is a little more crunched. I'll throw something together and PM it to you within the hour.
Kaigan 03-11-04, 07:48 PM	@Myrridin: I have just sent my tactics. @Mustadio & Arstimis: Still awaiting your tactics.
JonahBlack 03-11-04, 08:10 PM	@sshuit: I PMed you Grimlock's tactics.
^Rayne^ 03-11-04, 09:08 PM	Ethendril I will send Vryk's tactics later tonight (pacific time).
Jindl 03-11-04, 09:29 PM	Tactics recieved from Caterane. Tactics sent for Anna, Ghost of the Arena and for Aku, Shapeshifting Master of Darkness. -Jindl
kattattack22 03-11-04, 10:02 PM	From the SRD A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder. If I follow this correctly, one could take a warhammer and increase its size once and weild it as two handed weapon instead of one-handed weapon without penalty?
Arstimis 03-11-04, 10:02 PM	Tactics sent to Kaigan for Laucian vs Pard Still waiting for tactics from Smergal
Jindl 03-11-04, 10:34 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 If I follow this correctly, one could take a warhammer and increase its size once and weild it as two handed weapon instead of one-handed weapon without penalty? If you want to use a Large warhammer and you are medium sized, then it would be a two-handed weapon for you, and you would take a -2 penalty for using an inappropriately sized weapon. There is an additional -2 penalty for each size difference between your size and the appropriate size for the weapon. -Jindl
sshuit 03-11-04, 10:39 PM	While we're on the topic of weapon sizes, could Anna use Collossal Crossbow Bolts instead of her huge Bastard swords for TK? Each one would deal 6d8 Damage ! and weigh only a paltry 1.6 lbs. eek!
Battousai2005 03-11-04, 10:41 PM	Tactics recieved for both Bishop and Druid. Fight will be up sometime on friday. BTW, i still haven't figured out how to properly hyperlink to a page. Anyone wanna give the walkthrough?:teach:
kattattack22 03-11-04, 10:50 PM	Originally posted by Jindl If you want to use a Large warhammer and you are medium sized, then it would be a two-handed weapon for you, and you would take a -2 penalty for using an inappropriately sized weapon. There is an additional -2 penalty for each size difference between your size and the appropriate size for the weapon. -Jindl Actually, it would be a medium sized warhammer because a warhamer is one-handed weapon for a medium sized creature. one-handed weapons are one size category less than the weilder. I am talking increasing the size to medium to make a two handed weapon for a medium creature. While I am asking questions, can those of us not modding put characters as inactive and have 1 active character and switch them if we feel so inclined?
SnarkHunter 03-11-04, 10:52 PM	Hmm, thats a good idea sshuit, I may just have to use it for my own poor halfling... @Kat there is a very large table in the most recent FAQ you should check out. I'd do it myself but...you know...lazy. Yeah.
Jindl 03-11-04, 11:16 PM	Originally posted by sshuit While we're on the topic of weapon sizes, could Anna use Collossal Crossbow Bolts instead of her huge Bastard swords for TK? Each one would deal 6d8 Damage ! and weigh only a paltry 1.6 lbs. eek! Heh. Unfortunately the TK spell description says arrows and bolts used in this manner deal damage as daggers. A collossal dagger deals 2d8 damage. The swords are better. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 03-11-04, 11:26 PM	Ah rats. I'll stick to the bastard swords then.
Battousai2005 03-11-04, 11:37 PM	tactics sent for Artavian vs Vryk along with all the nice little changes...
sshuit 03-12-04, 12:13 AM	Ony vs Grimlock is up. a fun one to run! sshuit
Kaigan 03-12-04, 12:58 AM	@Jindl: My email is wrong, I will PM the right one to you now. @Mustadio and Arti: Just write down your tactics at school tomorrow, okay. or i will Pm the right one to you.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-12-04, 01:09 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Mastery of Shaping works on emanations too. So I can shape a hole in the antimagic field where Aku can stand, thus his buffs work normally. Of course, it costs me 3 feats and a 7th level spell slot to get the ability, but I think it will be worth it. -Jindl duh, ok...didn't realize you were talking about archmage. I guess if i'm gonna eave's drop on a conversation and ask questions about it, it probably wouldn't hurt if i also paid attention. lol :p -ToK
kattattack22 03-12-04, 01:49 AM	Originally posted by sshuit Ony vs Grimlock is up. a fun one to run! sshuit Glad you enjoyed running it. I have a suspicion Ony will not be hanging around the Coliseum much longer...
xeno_eleusis 03-12-04, 02:18 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 BTW, i still haven't figured out how to properly hyperlink to a page. Anyone wanna give the walkthrough?:teach: {URL="http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=30"}My first build{/URL} looks like this My first build (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=30) -- NOTE: use [] and not {} -- This forum is really neat because in the URL you can control how many posts go on each page perpage=1 I use this so I don't have to look up it's post tag. Just find out what thread you are accessing threadid=190985 and then starting with the first post as pagenumber=1 find the post you want and change the pagenumber=30.
Rozman 03-12-04, 02:29 AM	Originally posted by Jindl In the meantime, if someone posts a new 2nd level character by Friday, I'll give you and that player the option of fighting each other this weekend. (And I'll make Arstimis run the fight). -Jindl I just posted an ECL 2 character if you're interested in setting up some noob-on-noob action. Probably won't be as dirty as that sounds though...
^Rayne^ 03-12-04, 02:51 AM	Ethendril, I've sent you Vryk's tactics and one additional email of a couple things I forgot to add. Thanks for running this fight. I'm very excited to see the outcome. Rayne
^Rayne^ 03-12-04, 03:33 AM	I have a quick question... Can we post and use as many gladiators we want as long as we only use one a week? For example, right now I have two gladiators that I sometimes run at the same time. However this week I'm only using one of them so I don't have to run a fight. So for example could I add one or two more gladiators to the pool of gladiators I have, and as long as I run only one of the three or four I have posted each week I'm still okay by the rules set forth in the arena? I'm asking because I'm thinking about adding a couple more gladiators to the arena forum for contests but I think I'll alternate on which one fights as I feel like it. If this is cool I may post another PC or two soon for use in the future.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-12-04, 03:56 AM	I think i had 4 on the go at one time. Just make sure you specify who's fighting this week and who isn't, also to really double check the subject of the characters that you wish to have fighting to be ready, and those that aren't to say so as well. -ToK ps. i'm about to post another character soon as well. Hopefully sometime tonight. *EDIT* Brock Granitehand – Rng 1/Clr 1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2788260#post2788260)
^Rayne^ 03-12-04, 04:07 AM	Thanks for the information. I'll be sure to clearly mark when they are ready and when they are idle. Unlike some of the players here, even if my PC has a record of 0wins and 12losses I'll keep playing them even as they get bumped. So even though Aiki seems to be nothing more than a punching bag around here he will continue to progress slowly. I don't like giving up on my creations. It is more fun to learn from their folly and see if I can make a build thrive even when it isn't optimized for gladatorial combat. I've actually got a Bard who was never designed for combat that I'm thinking about using in the arena. It would just be fun to me to see how some very strange PC's would do in a setting they were not designed for. They may get their butts handed to them but it will be fun (from my perspective) to see what they would do if put in a situation where they have to fight and how I can come up with creative tactics to allow them to compete. Anyway I will probably post a couple additional PC's that I will make ready from time to time when I want a change from my two kobolds (although I love both of their concepts). I like to win but for me it is almost more fun to take a PC that should lose and make them a winner. Perhaps they will lose a lot but eventually come into their own. I have a PC who's major function is to make creations of all sorts. She won't be too good in the early going but down the road some of her creations might make her one of the most leathal challengers ever. These are all things I wouldn't mind exploring along the way.
xeno_eleusis 03-12-04, 04:21 AM	@Rozman, just want to say welcome, and that its good to see a Bard build.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-12-04, 04:51 AM	Originally posted by Rozman I just posted an ECL 2 character if you're interested in setting up some noob-on-noob action. Probably won't be as dirty as that sounds though... I am interested in some noob-on-noob action. Jindl can assign it to Arstimis and we can do up tactics. Please review Brock Granitehand – Rng 1/Clr 1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2788260#post2788260) for your tactics and send your them to Arstimis. -ToK
Hatzinger 03-12-04, 06:48 AM	Tactics sent to Cellardwellar. Btw, why did you request my tactics, xeno?!?:confused:
xeno_eleusis 03-12-04, 06:58 AM	@Nivek Loneshadow, Still waiting on tactics. Isn't today the deadline. What time (GMT) should I wait before using his default tactics. I want to post this fight and then get some homework done. Originally posted by Hatzinger Tactics sent to Cellardwellar. Btw, why did you request my tactics, xeno?!?:confused: It's actually kind of funny. You and Nivek Loneshadow have the same avatar, and I just looked at the picture and not the name. Sorry for the confusion.
Hatzinger 03-12-04, 07:12 AM	lol, xeno. i looked up the boards, but couldn´t find the old rule that the tactics have to be sent until friday/saturday. sees to have changed to: "After the pairing, moderators will wait 2 days for the personalized tactics. If you don't email the tactics for the specific enemy, the standard tactics will be used." And i think that the official COCO time is CET.
Jindl 03-12-04, 09:11 AM	Tactics due on Friday means that they have all day Friday to get them to you. Please do not run fights with default tactics until Saturday. @Tellish/Rozman/Coyote Skyheart - Well, I can make a pairing, but Coyote was here first, so he would face one of you two. Whoever posts here first (between Tellish and Rozman) will get to fight Coyote. Arstimis will be the Pitlord. @Kaigan - Email updated on Pitlord list. -Jindl
Myrridin 03-12-04, 09:38 AM	Tactics have been received from Tellish and Kaigan. I'm running the fight now, should have it up in a bit.
Battousai2005 03-12-04, 09:41 AM	much thanks, xeno. now i can actually link to the fight when it gets up!
Myrridin 03-12-04, 11:23 AM	[Silencius vs Elinias] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2834402#post2834402) Ok, so I'm not sure why this is going to the TOTALLY wrong place...I followed the directions on page 9 of this thread. Edit: Nevermind, I figured it out. I forgot to change the post # at both places. Enjoy the read, and let me know if there were any glaring errors in the fight.
Rozman 03-12-04, 11:25 AM	Originally posted by Jindl @Tellish/Rozman/Coyote Skyheart - Well, I can make a pairing, but Coyote was here first, so he would face one of you two. Whoever posts here first (between Tellish and Rozman) will get to fight Coyote. Arstimis will be the Pitlord. -Jindl @ Jindl- Shotgun! Err, me first! :)
Jindl 03-12-04, 11:48 AM	@Rozman / Coyote Skyheart / Arstimis - Pairing created, get tactics to Arstimis ASAP. If Arstimis doesn't receive tactics then no fight will occur (@Arsti - do not run the fight unless you get tactics from both players.) @Myrridin - Some minor errors posted on the "3/10 fights" thread. -Jindl
Pitlords 03-12-04, 03:18 PM	@all: My first day as Pitlord. I did some updating and cosmetic roster surgery. First of all, all terms using "fight master", "moderator" or similar expressions have been changed to Pitlord, the new offizial term for Moderator. From now on we use this expression, even in discussion. The wizos wanted us to find and use a different term than moderator (-->confusing with board moderator), so here we go. The FUS have been updated, cleaned and made a bit more attractive. Also, a new section has been added: The CoCo Mutants! The Pairings and Roster posts got some new colors, and terms have been changed. One additional thing: You might`ve notived that Jindl and I share the Pitlord account. He takes the weekdays, I the weekends. To better distinguish who just insulted you ;) we use different colors: Jindl is darkgreen and I am indigo/purple. When Mo gets back he will choose his own color, royalblue I guess. Alright, give me some feedback on the changes. Thanks. Cat
Jindl 03-12-04, 03:23 PM	Re: The colors - Cat, Mo, and I will probably only use our colors when we are talking under the Pitlord's name. The rest of the time, we'll likely just use the normal black... -Jindl
SnarkHunter 03-12-04, 04:47 PM	Fights up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2837607#post2837607). Check it out let me know if anythings screwy. It was a close one in anycase, so any scrutiny appreciated. Looks good Cat.
Ethendril 03-12-04, 05:17 PM	Okay, I'm eyeball-deep in the Donkey vs. Ilene fight, and have a question. In order to pinpoint someone's location (who is invisible or otherwise not visible because of some other condition), you have to roll a listen check that beats their move silently by 20. Is that right? Also, the listen DC for someone casting a spell is 0, then distance modifiers, right? I just want to get all this correct before I continue. [by the way, tactics for both sides in this fight have deteriorated]. -Ethendril
Rozman 03-12-04, 05:17 PM	Tactics for Ilmanur Norinwen have been emailed in to Arstimis.
Rosella 03-12-04, 05:47 PM	Ethendril, you're scaring me :( I'll keep out of it if I'm not sure, I don't want to influence the fight too much. this one I can answer though; QUESTION: Also, the listen DC for someone casting a spell is 0, then distance modifiers, right? ANSWER: Talking DC = 0. if it's with verbal components, yes it's 0. I know the distance modifiers for spot, not for listen though.
sshuit 03-12-04, 05:51 PM	I think that's exactly right Ethendril. Check the Core FAQ for handling of MS/Listen for Invisible creatures. It says 20 to pinpoint. DC for hearing spell is 0 modified by range. sshuit Originally posted by Ethendril Okay, I'm eyeball-deep in the Donkey vs. Ilene fight, and have a question. In order to pinpoint someone's location (who is invisible or otherwise not visible because of some other condition), you have to roll a listen check that beats their move silently by 20. Is that right? Also, the listen DC for someone casting a spell is 0, then distance modifiers, right? I just want to get all this correct before I continue. [by the way, tactics for both sides in this fight have deteriorated]. -Ethendril
Rosella 03-12-04, 06:00 PM	btw, why is tier 7+ red and below that orange?
Ethendril 03-12-04, 06:02 PM	Thanks for the replies. I think I was running it correctly, then. This fight is nasty. It's at 18 rounds now, and I have a winner, but I want to make sure it's clean (which it won't be).
Ethendril 03-12-04, 07:00 PM	Donkey vs. Ilene is up. This fight was very messy for me, and the tactics for both sides did not cover what actually ocurred in the fight. So I had to improvise. I think the story is very good, and continues off the last fight. Please consider it a draft if there are any major errors. -Ethendril
Jindl 03-12-04, 07:14 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Donkey vs. Ilene is up. This fight was very messy for me, and the tactics for both sides did not cover what actually ocurred in the fight. So I had to improvise. I think the story is very good, and continues off the last fight. Please consider it a draft if there are any major errors. -Ethendril Only one that I see at the moment: bears endurance lasts for 1 min / level = 3 minutes in this case. Donkey should have had 0 hps when the fight ended, and since he is a cleric, he could have healed himself and prolonged the fight. You should prolly fix this and continue ... -Jindl
SnarkHunter 03-12-04, 08:02 PM	I've posted a few things in the concerns thread if you want to check them out Eth.
Ethendril 03-12-04, 08:14 PM	I've responded in the fight concerns thread.
Kaigan 03-12-04, 08:20 PM	Pard vs. Laucian is up. Please tell me if there are any errors that need to be fixed. Thanks
Arstimis 03-12-04, 09:09 PM	I have recieved Rozman's tactics Still waiting for Coyote Skyheart's tactics and Smergel's tactics
barrel_master 03-12-04, 09:30 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Only one that I see at the moment: bears endurance lasts for 1 min / level = 3 minutes in this case. Donkey should have had 0 hps when the fight ended, and since he is a cleric, he could have healed himself and prolonged the fight. You should prolly fix this and continue ... -Jindl Isn't donkey cl 1? so 1 minute?
SnarkHunter 03-12-04, 09:31 PM	2nd level scroll, CL 3. Oh and ethendril I responded to your PM, hope that helps.
Druid Roxors 03-12-04, 11:03 PM	Dominicus Vs Fargus is done, Ill add some flavor text and post it later today or tomorrow morning. It was a one sided battle... Until a crucial error... I shall say no more ;)
xeno_eleusis 03-12-04, 11:25 PM	Is it Saturday yet? I never recieved tactics from Nivek Loneshadow, I suspect that he never intended to send them, since his default tactics are pretty thorough, except that his default tactics specifially say that he has fast movement. Since he is wearing his backpack he will only get 30 ft of movement and acp to hide and move silently. @ToK or anyone who can help me. Should I assume that he does not wear the pack in the area, I think that this could be a pivital aspect of the fight and I want to run it soon.
Mustadio[MoF] 03-12-04, 11:38 PM	Pard Longfellow has aquired 3 consecutive losses at level 2. May he level?
Jindl 03-12-04, 11:39 PM	@Mustadio[MoF] - yep, go ahead and bump him. @ All - The Harvester #2 vs a Very Young Red Dragon is posted. So close ... so very close to victory. -Jindl PS: In other news, does anyone else think that the CR's on dragons are way to low? I mean, that thing was only CR 5 !?!
xeno_eleusis 03-12-04, 11:42 PM	@Jindl, can you help me with this ruling?
Jindl 03-12-04, 11:43 PM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis @Jindl, can you help me with this ruling? Just assume he drops the pack as a free action when combat begins. That's what most of the PC's in my RL campaign do (though it is pretty funny when they retreat, leaving all their supplies behind :D ). -Jindl
xeno_eleusis 03-12-04, 11:46 PM	@Jindl, thanks for the reply. He will wear the pack and then drop it in the first round.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-13-04, 12:01 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Dominicus Vs Fargus is done, Ill add some flavor text and post it later today or tomorrow morning. It was a one sided battle... Until a crucial error... I shall say no more ;) <sigh> i'm assuming i lost again? Grr. Oh well, back to the drawing board. Saying stuff like that is kind of a spoiler. Normally i don't mind spoilers when is someone else's character, hehe, but not my own. :) -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 03-13-04, 12:03 AM	Originally posted by Jindl @Mustadio[MoF] - yep, go ahead and bump him. @ All - The Harvester #2 vs a Very Young Red Dragon is posted. So close ... so very close to victory. -Jindl PS: In other news, does anyone else think that the CR's on dragons are way to low? I mean, that thing was only CR 5 !?! No, i don't believe dragon cr's are underrated. I think they have to be like that otherwise ppl would just walk all over them like the previous editions. Now when you see dragon, it's not just it's virtual fear aura you have to worry about...these things produce damn real fear in any character at the table. I think they did an awesome job at pumping up dragon strengths and abilities. -ToK
Rozman 03-13-04, 12:42 AM	Originally posted by Jindl PS: In other news, does anyone else think that the CR's on dragons are way to low? I mean, that thing was only CR 5 !?! Dragons CR's are low, as are at least some Elementals (Huge and larger Fire Elementals, for instance.) And a CR 12 Frost Worm exploding for 12d6 cold + 8d6 piercing (100' range!) after you've managed to kill it is either way too low or way too high depending on the situation. But CR's are getting better. I think they've tweaked the Demons/Devils to be a little closer to the actual challenge.
kattattack22 03-13-04, 01:50 AM	Originally posted by Jindl PS: In other news, does anyone else think that the CR's on dragons are way to low? I mean, that thing was only CR 5 !?! For what Wizards is going for it is correct. Wizards figures you will have about 5 encounters since they believe an encouter should expend about 20% of a party's resources. So, CR=Party Level doesn't mean nearly kill the party, which I generally aim for. :rant: That is why I don't use monsters straight from the MM anymore. I always give them some extra HD, or class levels to even the score. Plus, I generally go 2-5 over on CR for my group, but I also have 8 players. Then there is the fact this battle was set up and Havester knew what he was up against. Sometimes, dragons surprise adventurers and they aren't ready with swords and potions drawn.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-13-04, 03:00 AM	Question: If an archmage is enervated and must lose as many of his highest level spells mem'd for as many levels he's been enervated, does he lose high-arcana sacrificed slots? scenario: 2 arch-mages duel it out. A has high arcana spell-like abilities empowered/maximized enervation useable 2 times per day. Suppose A, gets in range and fires this very deadly bolt of black energy at his opponent who has 9th level slots commited to high-arcana. Does he lose them? -ToK
Arstimis 03-13-04, 04:08 AM	Questions about my fight have been posted on a different thread Also, i have still not recieved tactics from Coyote Skyheart and Smergel both from two different fights Edit: I am going to bed now, when i wake up i have alot of stuff to do. So later saturday i will probably run the fight with default tactics, if none have been recieved
xeno_eleusis 03-13-04, 04:30 AM	I thought it was already Saturday GMT, I already ran my fight with default tactics and it's being posted now. Nivek Loneshadow versus Aemon - ECL2 - 10/03/04 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=446) is now posted.
Druid Roxors 03-13-04, 04:50 AM	The fight has been posted. please use this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198503) for any concerns you might have.
Pitlords 03-13-04, 05:10 AM	New section added to FUS: Audience offenders
Hatzinger 03-13-04, 05:50 AM	Originally posted by Jindl PS: In other news, does anyone else think that the CR's on dragons are way to low? nah. 3.5 put the DRAGON back in dragons. in 2nd, my players abused dragons as riding-animals with special abilities. in 3.5 they would get their head examined if they proposed something like that.
MotherBast 03-13-04, 07:15 AM	Actually, back when 3.0 was pretty new, Dragon mag did a "dragons" issue. Somewhere in that mag was a statment that WotC had intentionaly made Dragon CRs lower than the CRs of equaly powerful creatures, because under most circumstances, the party would know they were going to fight a dragon, and exactaly how to go about killing it. It also said if the dragon was a random encounter, and the party was not ready for it, the CR of the dragon could be up to 4 higher, depending on the age of the dragon, (the younger, the bigger the CR difference). In the arena, I don't think anyone will ever be cought off guard by a dragon, so the CRs should be about right by WotC logic.
MotherBast 03-13-04, 07:21 AM	@Mag: I have no tactics yet for Zorander and you have no defalt tactics.... I will run this fight no later than noon today, becuase after that I will be unable to even attempt to run a fight untill Monday evening. If you do not seen any tactics, I will just have Zorander hide and shoot arrows. If you have anything more complacated than that in mind, please let me hear from ya.
Caterane 03-13-04, 07:57 AM	Tactics received for Aku, Jagath and Spike. Still missing tactics for Laness. Beginning my run now...
sshuit 03-13-04, 08:54 AM	@ToK I don't think you'll find any official rulings on something like this. BUT, in my opinion the spell-like ability would be lost. If you evervate a creature with spell like abilities does it lose them ? No. The Difference with the archmage is that "The spell-like ability normally uses a spell slot of the spell's level. Since envervation causes loss of "one spell or spell slot" it seems to me that the archmage is screwed. sshuit Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Question: If an archmage is enervated and must lose as many of his highest level spells mem'd for as many levels he's been enervated, does he lose high-arcana sacrificed slots? scenario: 2 arch-mages duel it out. A has high arcana spell-like abilities empowered/maximized enervation useable 2 times per day. Suppose A, gets in range and fires this very deadly bolt of black energy at his opponent who has 9th level slots commited to high-arcana. Does he lose them? -ToK
Druid Roxors 03-13-04, 11:46 AM	Actually Sshuit, the archmage lost the slot already, so he cannot loose the slot again.
MotherBast 03-13-04, 12:01 PM	@Mag: Gerrrr...... Its noon, Saterday... No tactics from you for Zorander!!! I know a president exists for simply having the no tactic fighter auto-loose, but I hate seeing fights at this level handled like that, so I'm going to run the fight. Zorander's tactics will be to simply hide and shoot....... I wish I could wait, or that you had at least sent me a rough draft of tactics to go by, but I'm afraid I can wait no longer. I wish Zorander good luck......
Caterane 03-13-04, 12:13 PM	Spike vs Jagath Kihr (10) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2842826#post2842826) is up... ...and a new poll (for the Elder Mods only!) on copying spells from spellbooks (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2734709#post2734709)
MotherBast 03-13-04, 01:14 PM	OMG!!!!! I'm only an hour into the Zorander Kiri fight and already more hide, listen, spot and move silently checks than I would ever make in an entire campagin........ this is sooooooo anoying. At least it will be over soon.
Druid Roxors 03-13-04, 01:21 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast OMG!!!!! I'm only an hour into the Zorander Kiri fight and already more hide, listen, spot and move silently checks than I would ever make in an entire campagin........ this is sooooooo anoying. At least it will be over soon. Same happened with dominicus, I know your pain...
kattattack22 03-13-04, 01:21 PM	Originally posted by Pitlords New section added to FUS: Audience offenders As much as I love the FUS's, how many more are there going to be? Granted it would be nice to see every gladiator on there somewhere, but I don't want to see them become meaningless along with useless.
Caterane 03-13-04, 01:59 PM	Feel free to try to enter the FUS. You might notice that it`s not easy. But that was the last addition for now. edit: except for the graveyard of course (which is there to remember past characters)
MotherBast 03-13-04, 02:07 PM	Okay, 2 hours of hidding and moving silently later, the fight is done. I posted it very quickly. Very little in the way of story, I just wanted to get it done. I might go back latter and add in some more detail, and post more of the rolles. I only posted the ones that had an actual impact on the fight. And Eth.... I know you probably get this a lot, but I friggin hate you for making this character.................. I hope she burns in hell.
kattattack22 03-13-04, 02:17 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Feel free to try to enter the FUS. You might notice that it`s not easy. But that was the last addition for now. edit: except for the graveyard of course (which is there to remember past characters) That is good. I was just concerned and curious.
Battousai2005 03-13-04, 02:23 PM	Corinthus vs Hadrigan is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2843860#post2843860) Please tell me any errors i made.
kattattack22 03-13-04, 02:43 PM	Created World Building Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=200582) With our own board and all, I figured we could really flesh out the COCO. I know Caterane and LLMadCow have started on this, but I was hoping to get more people involved, share the work, and build a COCO by the gladiators, for the gladiators.
Druid Roxors 03-13-04, 02:47 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Corinthus vs Hadrigan is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2843860#post2843860) Please tell me any errors i made. I pointed out a few errors within the Problems and Concerns (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&goto=newpost&threadid=198503) Thread, Not that they would have changed the outcome, but its good to know. Thanks alot for running the fight Battousai.
^Rayne^ 03-13-04, 03:37 PM	Huge mistake in Harvester 2 fight verses Dragon PC... See Fights of the week of 3/10: Problems and Concerns thread for details. This should be fixed and the fight should be given to the correct winner. Rayne
Caterane 03-13-04, 04:12 PM	The sundered Towershield weighed 40 lb, so I was at 103 lb. I don`t know why you make that much wind because of 3 lb but I could`ve just dropped the flail (which I didn`t need anyway) to get the last 3 lb. If you still think 3 lb are a huge mistake I`ll gladly check your moderated fights for similar huge mistakes which should of course be rerun and given to the correct winner. Seriously Rayne, better ask before crying something throughout the whole city and placating it on every advertising column ;)
^Rayne^ 03-13-04, 04:33 PM	I think it is important and I didn't want the player who used the Dragon to miss the comments I made. He might not be aware of the mistake and seeing my board name won't tell him that I was discussing his fight with your PC. The weight issue can make or break this fight and it should be something that is looked into. 3lbs or any weight over 100 lbs is a huge deal when the spell that saved your PC's butt is determined by the success of that one spell. I have had experience running your PC's before and you are not careful about auditing their carried weights in my estimation. Maybe it isn't important to you or maybe you are trying to squeak past some often overlooked rules. I consider this information important and your numbers should be calculated and carefully audited by the moderator of that fight to make sure your PC had the correct weight amount shown. Edit: Also it appears there are other major errors related to meld into stone like your PC not being able to Enlarge himself or drink potions in this state. These all add up to a serious error. Players should look for themselves and see what they think. Jindl please take a look at the spells description as it seems like it doesn't allow many of the things Harvester Did to happen in this fight.
Ethendril 03-13-04, 05:10 PM	@MotherBast: Thanks for the great story on the fight. I always enjoy your stories. Originally posted by MotherBast And Eth.... I know you probably get this a lot, but I friggin hate you for making this character.................. I hope she burns in hell. I have had some hard feelings from pitlords before [i.e. the permanently damaged Mag], but I don't know that had actual hatred directed at me so far. So no, I don't get that a lot. -Ethendril
greymouse 03-13-04, 05:44 PM	NICELY DONE MO :bounce: I was looking around and noticed this. You sure brought this a long way since the, " Let's Get Ready to Rumble" thread back on the Min/Max board. Well Done!!!:)
SnarkHunter 03-13-04, 06:06 PM	Word. I hope everyone here recognizes how brutally fun this whole shebang can be. @Rayne. I don't think the wieght discrepancy sig. affected the fight. Nor do I think Harv would not have killed the dragon without being enlarged. If there is a problem with the character or tactics then for that fight it is the responsibility of the Pit lord to address it. Afterwards only need the player address it. @Anyone with a server: I found a couple pics to use for the bunny boy pic, anyone who could host them? Geocities is poopy after all.
^Rayne^ 03-13-04, 06:11 PM	^ Obviously Jindl missed this and how is it supposed to be brought to his attention if players don't bring it up to him? Huge size makes a big deal in weapon damage. Also what about drinking potions and equipping items in this state. None of that can be done and it DOES affect the fights outcome. If players don't watch what is going on then we are going to be hung by our own ignorance at some point. I believe we should all take part in these discussions and I encourage it whenever possible.
Caterane 03-13-04, 06:19 PM	@Anyone with a server: I found a couple pics to use for the bunny boy pic, anyone who could host them? Geocities is poopy after all. @Snark: Send them to me. I`ll host them.
SnarkHunter 03-13-04, 08:41 PM	Sent! I hope everyone likes him :).
Jindl 03-13-04, 09:01 PM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ ^ Obviously Jindl missed this and how is it supposed to be brought to his attention if players don't bring it up to him? Huge size makes a big deal in weapon damage. Also what about drinking potions and equipping items in this state. None of that can be done and it DOES affect the fights outcome. If players don't watch what is going on then we are going to be hung by our own ignorance at some point. I believe we should all take part in these discussions and I encourage it whenever possible. I'll address this and other issues tomorrow night, when I return home from out of town... -Jindl
^Rayne^ 03-13-04, 09:16 PM	Thanks Jindl, I look forward to seeing how this gets resolved.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-13-04, 10:16 PM	already discussed to death. deleted post. -TOK
Caterane 03-13-04, 10:26 PM	143 lb - 45 Towershield (which got sundered) = 98 lb < 100 lb Secondly, the moderator should point that out. Here`s what I wrote about this: Example: you`re the moderator. One of your players sends you tactics, 5 pages long, and they focus completely on ...let`s say a wand with a spell not on your spell list. What do you do? You run the fight and add a comment to round 1: "Sorry pal but your wand is illegal. Your tactic just broke down." I assure you, such a behaviour will only create hard feelings. Or imagine what if the player was right and the wand WAS legal? Ouch. Now if Meld into stone fails three times because of 3 lb and I have a flail in hand which the moderator isn`t going to drop just because I didn`t write it, then expect a healthy discussion afterwards. One has to write 120 pages to cover everything. In such cases the moderator has to tell the player that it won`t work before he runs the fight. And Tellish, wasn`t it you who was convinced that you have to describe the actions a commanded undead is going to do, like "Now move your left and right wing up and down while running forward and...." :smirk: Edit: If you want to join our discussion read the concerns thread and reply there.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-13-04, 10:31 PM	I edited my post to reflect the fact that this topic was already beaten to death in a previous thread. And Tellish, wasn`t it you who was convinced that you have to describe the actions a commanded undead is going to do, like "Now move your left and right wing up and down while running forward and...." Heheh, well i wouldn't say THAT :censored::censored::censored::censored: , but something close. Which in fact is the way it's closely described. -TOK
SnarkHunter 03-14-04, 12:26 AM	Ho all, just so everyone's aware, I'm leaving my computer tomorrow morning and coming back Friday. Moon-moon will be my only active gladiator, since ethendril will be rerunning the Donkey/ilene marital difficulties fight Monday and I won't be able to update from that in time.
Jindl 03-14-04, 01:48 AM	@Snark - Okay, I'll make sure Sky is included in pairings. Can you take a second and make sure you vote on the current polls in the Elder Forum? And tell us whether you vote to allow meld into the stone, to work into the floor. Also, have you heard from Mag? He didn't send tactics for Zorander to MotherBast ... and he is supposed to be running Anna's fight. I just wanted to make sure he is around this weekend and that the fight doesn't need to be reassigned. See you next week! -Jindl
Arstimis 03-14-04, 04:59 AM	Jaydai vs. Smergel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2849611#post2849611) has been posted. Pretty unexpected turns in the fight
MotherBast 03-14-04, 07:44 AM	Arti, see the fight concerns thread.
SnarkHunter 03-14-04, 08:01 AM	Mag went home a few days earlier then I. I'd assumed he'd be using his parents computer? For whatever reason it looks like he isn't. I would say that if he doesn't post by today the fight should be reassigned.
Caterane 03-14-04, 08:22 AM	I still haven`t received tactics for Laness DeVille. Tharkos, I will wait until evening but then I have to run the fight. No time to do it tomorow. And since I have no idea what you are planning to do with that character it would be really helpful to get some tactics.
cellardweller 03-14-04, 08:23 AM	Amidst the confusion caused by feuding stablemasters, Smushy has been assassinated by Shiaan the Bloodmaiden of Takhisis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2722250#post2722250) . On an unrelated note, I will be running Oetzi vs Grym after WMXX tommorrow.
xeno_eleusis 03-14-04, 08:41 AM	Originally posted by Arstimis Jaydai vs. Smergel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2849611#post2849611) has been posted. Pretty unexpected turns in the fight I am cracking up after reading the fight. A wimpy Wizard with 4 hitpoints survives a coup de grace. You ran the fight well, and I hope the audience thought it was as entertaining as I did.
Caterane 03-14-04, 08:56 AM	A pity Smushy retired. She entered the graveyard and will be remembered. Perhaps if someone could give me a statement to add there...
Hatzinger 03-14-04, 09:19 AM	Lance vs. Angosh is posted.
Jindl 03-14-04, 11:19 AM	FYI: Mag posted on the "Fights 3/10" thread, and said he would be running the Candy vs Anna fight later today/tomorrow. @MotherBast / Ethendril - I think Zorander should have used the cold iron arrows, especially since Mag bought those especially for the pixie. Perhaps a minor re-run is in order to use the correct arrows? I'll also mention that prior to the fight, Mag mentioned using the potion of resist fire to protect against the wand. I'll be happy to forward these PM's to you guys, but I think he deserves the re-run using these 2 pieces of equipment. -Jindl
Arstimis 03-14-04, 01:49 PM	I will not be running the Elshaya Skyheart, Coyote Skyheart vs Ilmanur Norinwen, Rozman fight, as i have not recieved tactics from both people, coyote hasnt quite finished fixing his character sheet, and i wont have much time later. I will be happy to run this after next pairings
Battousai2005 03-14-04, 02:41 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis I will not be running the Elshaya Skyheart, Coyote Skyheart vs Ilmanur Norinwen, Rozman fight, as i have not recieved tactics from both people, coyote hasnt quite finished fixing his character sheet, and i wont have much time later. I will be happy to run this after next pairings I could take it off your hands as i am not planning on having Artavian fight next pairings. One less thing for you to do.
^Rayne^ 03-14-04, 04:53 PM	I am reposting this here (originally posted in Character Violation Thread) because I think it is a good idea and I want as many people who come to these games to play to see this proposal and discuss it.... Originally posted by ^Rayne^ I am certainly not volunteering for this massive undertaking but I think maybe someone should be in charge of making sure PC's have legal equipment and possibly a thread just devoted to this cause. I have seen a lot of use of the Alter Self Potion which can only be made if the PC has Brew Potion feat being used in the arena. I also know many people are using crafting skills to make Masterwork items but they don't meet the prerequisite +10 craft checks to be doing this. Perhaps this thread used to search for violations of the rules could be devoted to finding errors related to everything but equipment and another thread could have a moderator who searches through a PC's equipment list to make sure of the following... 1. All equipment weights are shown and correct (taking size into account). 2. All equipment is legal and only comes from the three core books. 3. All items that are crafted can be created by the PC who is using it. 4. All total gold costs for itmes are shown, correct, and expenditures to not exceed means of that PC. 5. That all equipment is being used correctly on the PC and not taking place in double slots or being used illegally by PC's. 6. They are in charge of checking armor check penalties and speed reductions or other factors resulting from encumberance or acp's. I realize this thread is supposed to cover all these issues but equipment and all it covers is a huge subset that really could have its own space on the boards here. Having someone who is well organized and thorough checking through these lists is a big task and would require lots of time. I believe it is needed and I would suggest that individuals who spend a lot of time doing tasks like this or running this thread should receive a credit to their name for every week of service (the same as moderating one fight). I don't know what other people think about this idea but I believe it is an idea that has merit and should be considered. Rayne
Caterane 03-14-04, 04:55 PM	Rayne, we all read the forum. Posting it on one thread suffices.
^Rayne^ 03-14-04, 05:00 PM	As I stated at the beginning of this posting I didn't want the masses to miss it. I know you check all of the threads regularly but I believe many of the patrons around here don't. I don't believe there is anything wrong with quoting the material a second time in another location so people are aware of it. Besides that what is more important is to see people's response and whether they like the idea or not. I thought it was a good one and I thought your first comment would have more to do with liking it or not liking it. Please I am not trying to start a flame war here. I said my piece yesterday and as you well know I appologized to you (before being prompted by messages from Tellish or Jindl) yesterday on my own. My only concern is that everyone gets to see this because I think the task of searching through PC's for violations is too big of a job for one person. Splitting the duties so someone else checks equipment seemed like an excellent plan.
Caterane 03-14-04, 05:11 PM	Well, the violations thread is better kept clean of discussions else the important informations will drown. It`s more suited for the Tavern. So Rayne, come over and sit down at my table, I guess you want your honeymilk with one and a half piece of sugar, as always :D Ok, and now listen to the wisdom of good ol' Cat. My opinion is that one thread suffices. The reason why you post it on two different threads in the first place is that there are already so many threads out there that no one checks them all. That´s why I proposed to discuss everything in the Tavern, except for BIG debates. Still, I see new threads with a single question answered in one reply, or three thus only those deeply involved care to check every time a new post is posted anywhere. So it would obviously better not to support this behaviour by opening just another thread.
^Rayne^ 03-14-04, 05:22 PM	I originally posted my idea there because I came up with the idea while reading about the arrow thing there. So naturally I wrote my idea there and then thought to myself, who is going to read this idea here. If you think of this place like it is a newspaper then I just put my idea down on the Editorial page. Not everyone reads the Editorials so I thought to myself, better to put my idea on the front page where more people will see it (so now its here). Again sorry for spreading the message out but that is why I did it this way. Anyway back to the idea... I like that the violations thread is meant to nitpick and pull apart characters to find errors and make sure all of them are as error free as we can make them. My proposal is to make an offshoot of this thread that does all of the things I mentioned above. Anyone here would have to admit that looking at 40+ PC's and checking their gear and everything that relates to it is a HUGE job. That section alone needs a very careful discerning eye. That is why I believe it should have its own task-master and thread to get the job done right. Jindl does a superb job at the job he has taken on himself but I think that his job would be a lot easier and more efficient if the two largest chunks of the task were split between two parties. I don't know what other people think about this but that is what I am hoping to have discussed here. So please, players and the Elder 8 if you like this idea please make the idea a reality and lets get someone Checking all of those equipment lists soon. That is all I want to say, thanks for taking the time to read what my proposal. Rayne
Battousai2005 03-14-04, 06:38 PM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ I originally posted my idea there because I came up with the idea while reading about the arrow thing there. So naturally I wrote my idea there and then thought to myself, who is going to read this idea here. If you think of this place like it is a newspaper then I just put my idea down on the Editorial page. Not everyone reads the Editorials so I thought to myself, better to put my idea on the front page where more people will see it (so now its here). Again sorry for spreading the message out but that is why I did it this way. Anyway back to the idea... I like that the violations thread is meant to nitpick and pull apart characters to find errors and make sure all of them are as error free as we can make them. My proposal is to make an offshoot of this thread that does all of the things I mentioned above. Anyone here would have to admit that looking at 40+ PC's and checking their gear and everything that relates to it is a HUGE job. That section alone needs a very careful discerning eye. That is why I believe it should have its own task-master and thread to get the job done right. Jindl does a superb job at the job he has taken on himself but I think that his job would be a lot easier and more efficient if the two largest chunks of the task were split between two parties. I don't know what other people think about this but that is what I am hoping to have discussed here. So please, players and the Elder 8 if you like this idea please make the idea a reality and lets get someone Checking all of those equipment lists soon. That is all I want to say, thanks for taking the time to read what my proposal. Rayne geez, thatll be a pain in the butt. Still, it is a good idea. It would take a long time, but it would take a lot of effort from the violation thread runner. Maybe i could do it... This seems like enough work to warrent more then one person though. If someone could help me, I'd do it willingly.
xeno_eleusis 03-14-04, 07:18 PM	This question is about LA and feats at level 3. I have a Tiefling Wizard who is going to level. I will level him in Wizard2 but normally a level 3 character gets a feat. The Monster Manual says that Feats, and ability points are given out according to racial hitdice. Tiefling's do not have racial hitdice but they have a Level adjustment +1. Can someone please clear this up for me. I have a fealing that this whole LA thing is a lot more restrictive than I had thought before.
^Rayne^ 03-14-04, 07:18 PM	I would be willing to help you, but as I mentioned I believe the effort is worth a credit a week just as being Pitlord for battles does. If the Elder 8 like the idea and want some individuals to run this I would be happy to do it with you. Having a partner for this would help reduce the extreme work load. Doing this would also take away the extreme amount of work Jindl is doing to verify all of the characters he is currently checking. He could greatly reduce the amount of time and work he has to commit to checking everyone's PCs. Anyway it depends on whether people like this idea, especially the Elder 8. In the end they decide whether this sort of thing should be done or not.
Battousai2005 03-14-04, 08:54 PM	@Rayne: Cool. This could be fun. Now if only we could get the Elder Mods to decide... After all, they haven't used their thread in a while. Its kinda hanging at the bottom of the page. *sigh* One of the times I wish I was an Elder Mod myself.
kattattack22 03-14-04, 09:00 PM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis This question is about LA and feats at level 3. I have a Tiefling Wizard who is going to level. I will level him in Wizard2 but normally a level 3 character gets a feat. The Monster Manual says that Feats, and ability points are given out according to racial hitdice. Tiefling's do not have racial hitdice but they have a Level adjustment +1. Can someone please clear this up for me. I have a fealing that this whole LA thing is a lot more restrictive than I had thought before. From Tieflings as characters in 3.5 SRD —Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels. There you have it. I'm afraid you will have to wait till ECL 4 to get your next feat.
^Rayne^ 03-14-04, 09:00 PM	If we get the okay we could start at the 2nd level PC's and work our way up from there. Then we could divide the PC's in half at each level to begin working on this project. We can work from level to level until we get to the top level then we start the process over again when we finish. By the time we get back to the beginning there will be lots of new PC's to check over and the levels above 2nd will have lots of characters who have advanced and have new equipment to check. Between the two of us we should be quite proficient at evaluating all of the people who are playing with a good deal accuracy and a reasonably quick timeline. I am not really interested in being an Elder but I'm certain that helping Jindl cut his work load down for evaluations might be looked upon favorably. Let us sit back for now and see what the Elder 8 think about our proposal. ;)
Jindl 03-14-04, 09:21 PM	@Rayne and Battousai - Tellish_of_Ket has already undertaken the monumental task of auditing all existing characters. I'm sure he would appreciate the help from the both of you. Feel free to contact him and offer your services. -Jindl
^Rayne^ 03-14-04, 09:27 PM	If Tellish is comfortable with this I will be happy to help. I will wait for him to contact me by PM or here to see if that is cool with him. I am not out to step on anyone's toes. I just want to help assure that all PC's are compliant with the rules for Arena Combat. If Tellish likes the idea of having people just checking the gear and aspects associated with it I would be happy to help serve this purpose. I know he has a huge never ending task on his hands and if he wants or needs help he knows who to talk to. ;) Rayne
Tellish_of_Ket 03-14-04, 10:39 PM	Yes, it is a huge task. I had no idea until i started just how long it takes to nit-pick and double check and then triple check for accuracy. Plus factor in that i'm working 30hrs of overtime this weekend, makes it tough. Plus i have a fight to run, plus i have to read all these threads with similar conversations being spread out over multiple threads, plus...and the list goes on. :D I will continue doing audits, but even i wouldn't go so far as to ask for item carrying locations. That would purely be subjective and being former SF-military i know ppl can can carry a ton of gear if properly stored and stashed, and even make them easily accessible. To force gladiators into this level of micromanagement (based on someone elses interpretations of where kit should be stored) might detract new-comers or even scare away old-timers. So long as the weight/cost balances out, i'm happy. Fun is priority one. -ToK
Battousai2005 03-14-04, 11:28 PM	@TOK: Well, id be happy to help. Its probably more difficult then modding fights in the sense that you have no option but be right. @Rayne: Whadda ya say? Up to the challenge? (better question: did i spell that right?)
^Rayne^ 03-14-04, 11:30 PM	I don't know how my list of objectives became construed as forcing people to tell us where everything is. These are the objectives I was proposing to help ease the burrden... 1. All equipment weights are shown and correct (taking size into account). 2. All equipment is legal and only comes from the three core books. 3. All items that are crafted can be created by the PC who is using it. 4. All total gold costs for items are shown, correct, and expenditures to not exceed means of that PC. 5. That all equipment is being used correctly on the PC and not taking place in double slots or being used illegally by PC's. 6. Making sure that all armor check penalties and speed reductions or other factors resulting from encumberance or acp's are accurate. All of these are dealing with equipment and making sure that they are being done fairly by PC's. As I've said before just looking over this section of a PC alone is a huge task and that is why I thought it would be easier if a couple of us focused on only these issues. Section 5. of this list has more to do with PC's using more than two rings, or trying to wear two magical belts (I haven't seen this yet, and these are silly examples but you get my meaning I hope). Anyway you didn't say if you are interested in assistance with all of this Tellish. I understand FUN is the most important aspect of all this but I also want to make sure that PC's are played fairly so people can have fun. If 90% of the people here play by the rules but keep losing matches to people who are using illegal characters it makes those of us losing because of this feel a bit cheated. I am trying to make sure that the environment we all enjoy is a level playing field. So with that in mind if Battousai2005 and I can help in part by doing the equipment section of PC's we can try to lessen the burden on you and help get through all of the PC's more quickly. Again I don't know how my proposal suddenly got missinturpreted from the goals I stated above but I believe everything I listed is very specific and all are clearly defined in the rules of the Core D&D material. If our help is not wanted or needed that is fine. This is merely an offer to help. Rayne
Battousai2005 03-14-04, 11:42 PM	Honestly, this is a really good idea. This way, we can make sure no one lost or gained more then he/she is supposed to. This ultimately makes things more fair. Take Artavian. I'm almost positive that there is an error in his gold (dont laugh. I've only got a B in math.). Whether in my favor or not, I don't know. Tellish couldn't take the time to check the equipment because he's too busy. No offense ment to him, understand. He's just overworked. This should help to balance everything out.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-15-04, 05:20 AM	Now that i'm done my fight (was quicker than i was expecting it to be) and overtime is done for the weekend, i shall return to auditing. -ToK
Magagumo 03-15-04, 01:33 PM	Candy vs. Jindl fight is up. Think it went fairly smoothly, but there were definite things that need to be discussed which were raised: 1. Ventriloquism, should it be functioning as an automatic Silent Spell? 2. Gorgon, listed as untamable in the MM, can Anna really have used Handle Animal on it? I ran the fight using these spells/creatures as we have in the past, but we ened to dicuss them. Also, there have been many, many mistakes with TK in the past, read my notes at the beginning fo the fight to understand how it should be used. Anyways, I'm back to working on stuff, just Zorander fighting this week, and give me two fights if you can, I want 9 creds so I can get my new character up and running next week...
Caterane 03-15-04, 01:45 PM	@Market-dude: Roleplay thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2860592#post2860592) @Mag: 1: No!!; 2: No? (but let´s hear Jindls theory on that first. Always entertaining these ones :D )
Ethendril 03-15-04, 01:49 PM	Okay, I've revised the Ilene vs. Donkey fight. It had the same result as before. However, Snark is not here until Friday, so I would appreciate it if someone could review the fight (I think it's round 10 on) to ensure that Snark has an advocate in the arena this week. Let me know if there are any more errors. -Ethendril
Jindl 03-15-04, 02:03 PM	@MotherBast - Will you be taking another look at the Zorander fight, to make use of the cold iron arrows? @Magagumo - I have some responses to your moderator comments on the Anna fight, but I need a little while to write them out. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 03-15-04, 02:14 PM	Mod’s Notes: Reading the description of ghost Telekinesis, it says this power may be used as a standard action, and then not for 1d4 rounds later. The way I would see it is that you can use telekinessis as a sustained force for several rounds. While telekinesis is in effect, the 1d4 counter is ticking. So she is able to do that, If she waits long enough. If one reads Telekinesis, one sees that there are three versions of the spell to be chosen. If one then consults the Complete Warrior’s book, Master of the Unseen Hand entry, one learns that you cannot switch between these three versions normally; you must pick which version you use when you cast the spell. (Masters of the Unseen Hand gain the ability to switch between versions.) Thusly, Anna cannot use her sustained force to lift the bundle of bastard swords to her opponent’s side, airspace, etc. and then immediately launch them at her opponent.I believe this is correct. Instead, she must have them moved to their area, wait the 1d4 rounds, and then launch them. Like a spell with a duration that can be cast every N rounds, the counter should be working as the spell functions. Anna "cast" the spell already, their effects are lingering but that is of no concern to the 1d4 counter. Furthermore, the sustained force only allows you to move one object, which Jindl has labeled the bundle of swords. However, this bundle would not then operate as several individual bastard swords, but as an object weighing as much as the bundle. I understand that the Gorgon can transport the swords on its back, allowing Jindl to throw them enmass if kept individually, but there is also the issue of the gorgon being untamable, by the creature’s own description. To make my final point, Anna has been run very badly in the past, with mistakes made regarding volleys of swords, the movement of this multiple swords, and now the raising of them into the air, when they would fall during the intervening time. I do not mean to suggest that Anna has won unfairly, but the mistakes need to end now. Anna will not be able to hurl the swords at her opponents if they are more than 120’ off the ground, as she cannot transport them to that height, and then throw them. She can still grapple her foes, and throw them about, and she still has her draining touch that inflicts negative energy sneak attack damage. Anna is far from unusable, but Telekinesis has been given too much power. I strongly suggest that the Gorgon’s existence be questioned after this battle’s conclusion, as well as the use of Ventriloquism as a psuedo- Silent Spell.I agree with most, rule revisions should be made.
Druid Roxors 03-15-04, 02:17 PM	Furthermore, The description of telekinesis, sustained force, describes an action as to tie or untie a knot. Anna could make a bundle of swords and move it arround then untie it and throw it. Although I guess that could cost extra actions, the gorgon wouldn't be needed.
Magagumo 03-15-04, 02:41 PM	@Druid I would say that the 1d4 round counter would not begin again until she ceased using Sustained Force. Furthermore, if she is using the sustained force to hold the swoards 120' from her opponent, then she has use dher standard action for the round. If she instead releases Concentration on the swords, they will fall, then she may use Violent Thrust, but they have already plummted out of range. I would say one cannot hold an action to "catch" the swords either, as this involves having a free standard action at the beginning of your turn, and that is never present unless Concentration has not been maintained. You are correct that she could tie or untie the swords, but this delays her actions, giving a nimble opponent time to escape and move away. Does this mean that Anna will not be able to use TK to kill as often? Yes Does this hamper her in a major way? Read the fight and you tell me. My vision of a properly run Anna involves her obtaining a companion that can carry the swords while being trained (still not sure Gorgon counts), and can possibly fly. If Anna obtains mithral swords, a pegasus could use its move speed to fly towards her opponent, and she could hurl them from its back, with the addition of them being durable enough to survive the fall. In retrospect, the swords should take full falling damage, mitigated by their hardness of 15, so they can take a decent bruising. Enchanting them would certainly add to this durability.
Druid Roxors 03-15-04, 02:53 PM	well, about the 1d4 timeout I still think it could be spent while using TK. Yes, Running TK correctly it would be impossible to hit an airborne target (considering its out of TK range). Perhaps a hippogriph can help with the swords? I think it is strong enough for that. A pegasus cannot be used because it has an inteligence of 10. No, none of my comments hamper the Result in any way. But all this must be discussed throughly.
Ethendril 03-15-04, 02:54 PM	Artavian vs. Vryk is up. My apologies to the combatants, but after spending so much time on the Donkey vs. Ilene fight and its revisions, I ran out of time to add story to the fight. -Ethendril
Arstimis 03-15-04, 02:57 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Artavian vs. Vryk is up. My apologies to the combatants, but after spending so much time on the Donkey vs. Ilene fight and its revisions, I ran out of time to add story to the fight. -Ethendril questions moved to the correct thread.
Magagumo 03-15-04, 03:07 PM	You can draw a weapon during a move provided you have at last a +1 base attack, Artis. :) I read the fight, and found one major issue, noted on fight problem thread.
Hatzinger 03-15-04, 04:03 PM	I have a question regarding arena wizards. How do they acquire more spells? Do they have to buy a scroll or can they borrow a spellbook from an npc wizard or a guild? (like in equipment/spellcasting and services) How do wizards add spells to their spellbooks? Do they have to reach the Spellcraft check with a "take 10" in their spellcraft skill?
Caterane 03-15-04, 04:10 PM	I`ve finished the fight which included my favorite gladiator :angel: Laness DeVille vs Aku (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2861658#post2861658)
Rosella 03-15-04, 04:29 PM	nice work ethendril! just one thing, (nothing serious) I noticed that Donkey didn't get a -2 for distance after Milano double moved away from him. That would be a mistake still? ;) Nice work though, Ilene got a little lucky, but that also counts!
MotherBast 03-15-04, 05:11 PM	@Jindl: Dang.... Anna outsmarted me this time. I really didn't expect any hurling or holding of Sanzin. Still, despite that, it came down to Candy's attack roll with the Undead Slaying arrow. 50% chance to hit..... I guess now those of us who read the fight know who luck favors. @Mag: Well done on the fight. About your comments. First, fireballing the gorgon would have been pointless, as I could have only possibly damaged the swords that way if the gorgon rolled a 1 on its reflex save, and then only if the 1d4 critical fail roll resulted in the weapons being the recipent of the damage. So waiting for the swords to leave the gorgon was much wiser. Also, an object being drug by TK is not in any way in the casters posesion. Anna would not have been wielding or holding the swords, so they would have been untended as far as a save was concerned. Plus, TK can only be used on Anna's turn, so on Sanzin's turn the TK would have not helped Anna move the swords to avoid any fire damage. Just a little further proof that targeting the swords after they left the gorgon was the "smarter thing to do." About everything else, you were correct. About the invis, I ment to put in to do that on turn 2, but somehow I left it out.... As for the Kiri vs. Zorander re-run, I did it today. The only change I made was that Zorander used cold iron arrows and recived no sneak attack damage. In the re-run, Kiri wins in 28 rounds, used 9 charges from the scorching ray wand, and 4 charges from the cure light wand. Zorander used 23 arrows, and actually delt 40 points of damage this time, but Kiri sliped away a healed up twice. And the re-run had twice as many spot/listen/hide/MS checks, so I deserve twice as much sympathy for having to run it. And I still hate the pixie. Maybe not Eth, but defanatly the pixie.
Ethendril 03-15-04, 05:26 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast And the re-run had twice as many spot/listen/hide/MS checks, so I deserve twice as much sympathy for having to run it. And I still hate the pixie. Maybe not Eth, but defanatly the pixie. [/B] You have my sympathy, MB (and LLMadcow's, and Mag's x2). Thanks for all your hard work. I enjoyed your story, too. With Kiri, maybe you could not hate her if you just pretend that she is a rogue with +39 on hide and a potion of fly. And some spell-like abilities. Oh, and damage reduction. If you think of her that way, she's just like everyone else.;)
Ethendril 03-15-04, 05:29 PM	Originally posted by Rosella I noticed that Donkey didn't get a -2 for distance after Milano double moved away from him. That would be a mistake still? ;) Actually, Rosella, I think this mistake was fight-altering. I'm going to rerun the entire fight...[be right back] Okay, fight rerun. Ilene dies to a critical hit from a massive ogre arrow dealing 58 damage. Sorry. -Ethendril
MotherBast 03-15-04, 05:53 PM	Okay, I have just been checking on the INA poll, since today is the last day for it. Currently, the poll lists 19 yes, 14 no, 3 abstain. Since that is more votes than we even have members, it seems the actually clicky votes will not be reliable. So, I counted the posters, and made a list of who they are and what they voted. If you voted absatin, I left you off. Yes has 13 votes: Batt, Rayne, Druid, Sshuit, Mercy, Jindl, MB, Mustadio, Katt, Snark, LLMC, Arti, and Barrel. No has 7 votes: Cat, Cellar, ToK, Rosella, MO, Bishop, and Market. 6 voters posted that they voted, but not what they voted. They are: Alterlast, Pittbull, Myrridin, Eth, Kaigan, and Hat. the 6 of you should edit your vote to include which way you voted or your vote will not be counted. If your name is not above and you wish to vote, then go to the poll and post your vote. Now, the reason I mention this is that with a 13 to 7 lead, it is unlikely that INA is going to loose. Since Brackin is level 12, and INA was not available when he took his level 12 feet, I was wondering if anyone would greatly object to him changing his level 12 feat to INA. Currently it is blind-fight, which he did not use in his only fight at level 12 so far. Does anyone object to this change?
Caterane 03-15-04, 05:56 PM	Does anyone object to this change? Besides that it`s not useable by monks? No. :P Alright, I close the poll now. INA has won, you cheaters :smirk:
MotherBast 03-15-04, 05:59 PM	LOL, good to see your in high spirits again Cat.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-15-04, 06:08 PM	Title says it all. Mike, i see you went and challenged Harv Jr. What did i tell you about challenges? Gah. It should be a VERY intersting fight to say the least. I would ask Jindl to assign a senior pitlord to it seeing the importance of it all. -ToK
Druid Roxors 03-15-04, 06:15 PM	Too bad you are retireing Silencius Tellish, I really like the idea of a UMD character, although I would prefer that it be a bard. Perhaps Ill make one.. Someday
MotherBast 03-15-04, 06:15 PM	Anyone else here notice how its sooooo much easier to cleave someone's head off in the role-play thread than it is in the fights thread? That just seems backwards to me.
Caterane 03-15-04, 06:24 PM	I would ask Jindl to assign a senior pitlord to it seeing the importance of it all. Just don`t give me Mo LOL
Ethendril 03-15-04, 07:24 PM	Questions: Could a character have both a tower shield and a buckler equipped (having only the bonus from the tower shield for your shield bonus, of course), then unequip the tower shield and already have the buckler on your other arm (thus utilizing its bonus without having to equip the buckler)? If so, would there be any adverse combat effects? If there are any, could a darkwood buckler negate them? Thanks. -Ethendril
Magagumo 03-15-04, 08:06 PM	@MB Many thanks, good sir, I appreciate a chance for a win. @ Ethendril Congrats, my friend, I find your pixie to be fairly impressive in her power, and managing to kill somone w/o sneak attack is always a good thing :) Sadly, Zorander will be bumping, but I have faith that he will find continued success in this arena, but I best not be fighting Kiri or Spike next time, we really need to make sure that people are facing off v.s new builds, or their full potential is never proven. That and I'd like to win once in awhile ;)
xeno_eleusis 03-15-04, 08:18 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger I have a question regarding arena wizards. How do they acquire more spells? Do they have to buy a scroll or can they borrow a spellbook from an npc wizard or a guild? (like in equipment/spellcasting and services) How do wizards add spells to their spellbooks? Do they have to reach the Spellcraft check with a "take 10" in their spellcraft skill? I remeber reading this on the FAQ but can't seem to find it now. Adding a new spell to a spellbook from a scroll: Price of the scroll + (number of pages x 100) usually Price of the scroll + (spell level x 100) example: Alter Self scroll 150 gp + materials/pages 200 gp = 350 gp DC for adding new spells to a spellbook: Spellcraft DC 15 + spell's level You have to take 10 so you would need at least 5 + spell's level in spellcraft. You get a +2 spellcraft for specialist wizards trying to copy from their school. You get a +2 Synergy bonus to Spellcraft for 5 ranks in knowlege arcana. You cannot copy from another person's spellbook. Please someone verify that this is the standing rule, I remember reading it in the FAQ but that was before we had our own board and now I can't find it.
xeno_eleusis 03-15-04, 08:21 PM	Both Boafer Stonewill - ECL3 and Jaydai - ECL3 are ready for 17/03/04
Tellish_of_Ket 03-15-04, 08:49 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Too bad you are retireing Silencius Tellish, I really like the idea of a UMD character, although I would prefer that it be a bard. Perhaps Ill make one.. Someday Oh, he's a solid build and i feel he can reach the upper echelon of the arena with minor difficulties. The biggest reason i'm retiring him is he takes just too dang long to write up tactics for. Everything relies on precise movement and calculations and one mistake and he's dead. With 10 con, he can't really get hit. A 4th level gladiator should have no trouble surviving from a single arrow crit, and he can't do that. I fear Dominicus may suffer the same fate soon as well. Way, way too much detail needed for tactics to survive. I do feel, however, that silencius is properly optimized and i feel good about retiring him that the effort wasn't a waste. -ToK
Druid Roxors 03-15-04, 08:55 PM	Well, but the way I see it is that Dominicus is basically the same, including Constitution. You might have to do something about that hp problem there too.
Magagumo 03-15-04, 09:15 PM	Ok, Zorander is updated at a level 10th level (post-bump), but I notice that competition stands as Jagath, Candy, Johan, and Kiri. I know the roll-out is important, but I wonder if I might request fighting Candy (who hasn't fought me in a few levels) or Johan (who hasn't fought Zorander at all)? This is somewhat of a challenge on my part, I suppose, but it's more a case for allowing our builds to face new challenges (such as the summoner), rather than people we have just fought (no offense Jagath or Kiri ;)). Just my 2c
Druid Roxors 03-15-04, 09:57 PM	Something I do not understand about Items here is why can't a druid buy a scroll of dispel magic at CL 5? Nothing within the core rules prevent druids from casting from those scrolls and the scroll is even directly present within the scroll's list! why must druids (and other characters, like bard invisibility spells or cleric flamestrikes) buy a level 4 scroll when they could buy a level 3 scroll much cheaper and to the same effect? 3.5 SRD Activate the Spell: Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance. To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements. • The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.) • The user must have the spell on his or her class list. • The user must have the requisite ability score. If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell's caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell's caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll's caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.
Battousai2005 03-15-04, 10:19 PM	Artavian has been retired due to his humiliatind defeat at the hands of the Kobald Vryk. New character being made...
sshuit 03-15-04, 10:32 PM	I didn't know this was true druid. Is this in the Arena Rules/FAQ? If I were to SCRIBE scrolls, I would have to use my Paladin CL and spell level to determine cost, but I think if I'm buying I can just buy Cleric scrolls. I would certainly buy cheaper Cleric scribed scrolls for my Paladin rather than the higher level and $ alternatives that are Paladin scribed. sshuit Originally posted by Druid Roxors Something I do not understand about Items here is why can't a druid buy a scroll of dispel magic at CL 5? Nothing within the core rules prevent druids from casting from those scrolls and the scroll is even directly present within the scroll's list! why must druids (and other characters, like bard invisibility spells or cleric flamestrikes) buy a level 4 scroll when they could buy a level 3 scroll much cheaper and to the same effect?
Druid Roxors 03-15-04, 10:35 PM	Yes, according to the core rules, A sorcerer can buy wizard spells (-1 spell level) a bard can buy Sorc/wiz spells (on his list, at a lower CL and SL), a Cleric can cast Flamestrike as a level 4 spell... This is all core.
sshuit 03-15-04, 10:37 PM	@druid, I don't understand your problem then. Where does it say you can't do this in the Arena rules? sshuit
MotherBast 03-15-04, 11:00 PM	I think at one time the arena did use that rule, but we realized the error long ago. Now Druids can buy dispel stright off the list in the DMG, as can Bards buy sor/wiz scrolls of spells they can cast.
Druid Roxors 03-15-04, 11:05 PM	Oh, the thing is that I remember not long ago that jindl bought a scroll of dispel magic, and the Pitlord corrected his sheet to reflect the added cost for druid dispel magic. And, If I remember correctly, Lance is using expensive scrolls for his character that are being bought as bard spells instead of wizard spells.
cellardweller 03-15-04, 11:42 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors And, If I remember correctly, Lance is using expensive scrolls for his character that are being bought as bard spells instead of wizard spells. If he is, it is completely unitentional (I'll go back and check when I get some time). Cure spells have to be bought at bard levels though as they have to be arcane cures.
Arstimis 03-16-04, 02:08 AM	Well, since the majority has seen the light about INA i was hoping i could switch my featFeats: I - Dodge . . . VI- Rapid Reload (Trying for Improved Natural Attack...) . When i first selected Rapid Reload i put that in parenthasis. I have used Rapid Reload before, but..hehe..it hasnt helped me win a fight, considereing i have lost 7 in a row. I'm hoping its allright with everyone that i switch this feat for INA now
KerlanRayne 03-16-04, 03:46 AM	:angel: HALLELUIAH :angel: DMG Errata has taken caster lever out of prerequisites!! :) :D :smirk: KerlanRayne
Tellish_of_Ket 03-16-04, 04:33 AM	Originally posted by Arstimis Well, since the majority has seen the light about INA i was hoping i could switch my feat When i first selected Rapid Reload i put that in parenthasis. I have used Rapid Reload before, but..hehe..it hasnt helped me win a fight, considereing i have lost 7 in a row. I'm hoping its allright with everyone that i switch this feat for INA now I don't see any harm as that was your intention all along. In hindsight and to be fair to the other monks, they also wanted to take INA and weren't allowed back then and should be allowed to change a feat to take INA if they wish. I guess all it takes to get new rules implemented is enough ppl to say it works a certain way. LOL -ToK
Rosella 03-16-04, 06:31 AM	On buying scrolls; you can only use scrolls that have spells that are on your class spellist. As such, if there are two versions, and your class has the more expensive version; you are still needed to buy the more expensive one. This is due to the fact that the spell is of a different type most of the time (divine/arcane) and you can't cast it at lower levels in your own class. I got a little disturbed by the discussion a little earlier, since it went the wrong way in my opinion.
MotherBast 03-16-04, 07:10 AM	Ros: Actually, it went the right way, you just misunderstood. An arcane caster can not use a divine scroll at all. So arcane casters must buy from the arcane list. Druids and Clerics, however, both cast divine scrolls. The question was, could a druid buy the same scroll as a cleric and still use it. Such as Dispel Magic, which is a diferent level for a Druid, but the same spell. The answer is yes.
Rozman 03-16-04, 09:29 AM	I have to agree with MotherBast here. There is no distinction between a Bard, Sorcerer or Wizard scroll, and there is no distinction between a Cleric, Druid, Paladin or Ranger scroll. The only "data" about a scroll is magic type (Arcane or Divine), CL, and of course the name of the spell. The only things you check to see if you can read the scroll is: -is it on your spell list? -do you have a high enough value in the appropriate stat? -are you high enough CL? If not, can you pass a CL test? Your class only determines whether it is on your spell list, and determines your CL for the CL test.
Pitlords 03-16-04, 10:48 AM	Re: Violation Tags I have just updated the roster. You will see that there are still a couple of violation tags. And you may notice that there are now two types of violations, green ones and red ones. A green violation is less serious and will not prevent you from being paired (think of it like a green light.) If you have a red violation, you will not be paired until that violation is fixed (think of it like a red light). After pairings, all green violations become red violations, so you will only be paired once before you must fix your green violations. The decision on whether a violation should be listed as green or red is solely at my discretion, using the following guidelines: Green violations should reflect issues that have little or no game effect. Red violations have significant effects on the fight. Please fix violations quickly, and then post on the violation thread that it is done (or email/PM me that it is done). -Jindl
Hatzinger 03-16-04, 11:02 AM	Oetzi has just gotten a new friend: Heinrich the elven mage. He´s ready to rumble! Awwww.... posted for 2 minutes and already a violation...:D
Pitlords 03-16-04, 11:05 AM	Re: "Fights of the Week" threads In the future, please allow the Pitlords login to start the "Fights of the Week" threads. This is important so that we can close the thread after the week is over. Also, please limit the discussion on the "Fights of the Week" threads to just the errors/concerns/comments about the fights. Any questions related to character design / updating, suggestions for new arena rules, congratulatory remarks, etc. need to be posted in the appropriate venue (the Tavern thread). Thanks. -Jindl
Pitlords 03-16-04, 12:14 PM	Re: Description of the Arena I have edited the arena description for clarity and to incorporate the rules decisions that have been made over the last several months. Hopefully it will clearly and accurately describe the combat setting and some of the rules interactions, such as gladiators which leave the arena, allowable starting positions, and the rules for using columns/rocks to meld into stone. Please read this section, which is immediately below the arena map on the gladiators thread. Thanks. -Jindl
Rosella 03-16-04, 12:28 PM	Sendril is now online. Note for the pitlords; Sendril will be used if, for any reason, Ilene rolls out. He is tagged not ready to make sure that I don't have two fights suddenly, but he IS ready if Ilene is rolled out.
Jindl 03-16-04, 12:43 PM	Originally posted by Rosella Sendril is now online. Note for the pitlords; Sendril will be used if, for any reason, Ilene rolls out. He is tagged not ready to make sure that I don't have two fights suddenly, but he IS ready if Ilene is rolled out. Fights are paired from the lowest levels up. So, the level 2 match-ups will already be paired before I roll for Ilene. It is your choice whether to mark the character as ready or not each week. It is unlikely that Ilene will ever roll out, since you have only 1 character, and players with more than 1 character would sit out first. -Jindl
Ethendril 03-16-04, 01:19 PM	@Mo, Jindl, and Cat: I am going to have to sit out as a Pitlord for a few months. I'm building a house in RL, and it's crunch time, so I'm running out of time (especially when my pathetic Pitlord results make me rerun fights as much as I do). Please put me on the inactive pitlord list for now. I will continue to have Kiri or Dusk fight (just one, but feel free to use them to even out levels however you want). I will try to have both of them ready, then just use one to make more fights happen. Thanks. -Ethendril
Jindl 03-16-04, 01:40 PM	@Ethendril - Noted. @Everyone - I just put a bunch of people in violation for things like: illegal masterwork tools, listing goodberries as equipment instead of a prebuff, and [BIGGIE] listing both a brooch of shielding and a peraipt of wisdom. Please take a look and fix these things. Note: Goodberries have a duration that is neither permanent, nor "until used". They are suitable as a prebuff, but not as listed equipment. Note: A brooch and a peraipt take up the same slot. You can't wear both. Please see Brackin's character sheet for an example of how to properly list items worn, when you have two items for the same slot. -Jindl
Jindl 03-16-04, 02:00 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master From the arena rules... Crafting items: the cost for self done magic items is as core rules: 1/2 the market price. The cost and time constraints are simulated applying the additional cost of 5 gp/xp. Normally, things with no additional xp cost will thus cost (1/2+5/25)= 7/10 the market cost. The cost for crafting stuff with skills is 1/2 the market price, to represent the time constraint. Is that to say then that magic items are 1/2 the cost if you make them yourself? Or is that to say that magic items cost 1/2+5gp/xp to produce the item? Also, how did everyone come to the (1/2+5/25) cost for stuff with no xp cost? This question is better suited to the Tavern, as opposed to its own thread. The answer is: 1. Magic items are crafted at 7/10 market value in gp, with no cost in xp, and with unlimited time between fights, time to create is no issue. 2. Non-magic items are crafted at 5/10 market value, with unlimited time between fights, time to craft is no issue. You must personally meet all prereqs to craft any item (magic or otherwise). You may not enlist help in any form from another PC or NPC (including cohorts) in crafting items. -Jindl
Jindl 03-16-04, 02:35 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Ok, Zorander is updated at a level 10th level (post-bump), but I notice that competition stands as Jagath, Candy, Johan, and Kiri. I know the roll-out is important, but I wonder if I might request fighting Candy (who hasn't fought me in a few levels) or Johan (who hasn't fought Zorander at all)? This is somewhat of a challenge on my part, I suppose, but it's more a case for allowing our builds to face new challenges (such as the summoner), rather than people we have just fought (no offense Jagath or Kiri ;)). Just my 2c Level 10 is currently uneven. As a result (and per his request) Ethendril will have the pixie sit out. So, feel free to post a challenge to either Candy or Johan in order to prevent a pairing with Jagath. -Jindl
Jindl 03-16-04, 03:00 PM	Okay, I have a question: Magic weapons have a 50% chance to affect an incorporeal target. If they pass the 50% then they affect it normally (ie. like it was material). If they fail the 50% then they pass right through it, like it wasn't there. So, if a magic arrow was to pass the 50% chance, then it could hit the incorporeal creature as if the creature was material. What if the incorporeal creature had Deflect Arrows as a feat? Could it then deflect the arrow, since the arrow is treating the creature like it was material? I think this is correct, and that if the magic arrow passes the 50% then the creature and the arrow can interact with each other, thus the creature can deflect the arrow. The reason I ask is I am considering having Anna take some monk levels before she becomes a shadowdancer. Obviously, I would want to take advantage of the Deflect Arrows feat to deal with all those nasty Arrows of Undead Slaying ... What does everyone think on this? -Jindl
Caterane 03-16-04, 03:08 PM	This does not work else Anna could just push items with her hands if she passes the miss chance which is not the case: her hands will ALWAYS pass through items and so it is with arrows. You don`t lose the incorporal type, and as an incorporal creature you neither have a strength score nor can you manipulate items with your (nonexisting) body
Tellish_of_Ket 03-16-04, 03:28 PM	Ya Jindl, i concur with Cat on this one. By the time you get to interact with the arrow, its already burried within you. Hard to dodge an arrow stuck in your forhead. -ToK
Jindl 03-16-04, 03:32 PM	Okay. No monk levels for me then. Ah well, it'll keep me from becoming lawful [ewww...] On a side note: Anna now has a +37 to her Hide skill. Muhahahaha!!! -Jindl EDIT: Oh wait, I just had a thought. What if Anna was wearing a +1 ghost touch guantlet? Could she then use the Deflect Arrows feat?
Tellish_of_Ket 03-16-04, 03:42 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Okay. No monk levels for me then. Ah well, it'll keep me from becoming lawful [ewww...] On a side note: Anna now has a +37 to her Hide skill. Muhahahaha!!! -Jindl EDIT: Oh wait, I just had a thought. What if Anna was wearing a +1 ghost touch guantlet? Could she then use the Deflect Arrows feat? Nice try but no dice. Ghost touch items can be worn by incorporeal, but they still pass through matter freely. [read description of ghost touch] Your ghost touch item is still in effect, incorporeal along with you. For you, a ghost, it would just allow you to wear it, nothing more. -ToK ps. keep the ideas coming though. I am the master of obscure knowledge.
Jindl 03-16-04, 03:45 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Nice try but no dice. Ghost touch items can be worn by incorporeal, but they still pass through matter freely. [read description of ghost touch] Your ghost touch item is still in effect, incorporeal along with you. For you, a ghost, it would just allow you to wear it, nothing more. -ToK ps. keep the ideas coming though. I am the master of obscure knowledge. Not true, a ghost touch weapon wielded by a ghost affects material creatures and objects normally. Thus a ghost could even make sunder attempts using a ghost touch weapon. If this is the case (and it is), then why couldn't you deflect arrows using a ghost touch guantlet? (see the Ghostly Equipment description in the MM, as well as the Ghost touch description in the DMG, and the Incorporeal trait in the MM). -Jindl
Ethendril 03-16-04, 03:49 PM	@ Rayne: See the roleplay thread for a draconic challenge. -Ethendril [Also, sorry if I didn't follow your tactics how you wanted in the last fight. At least you still won]:)
MotherBast 03-16-04, 05:05 PM	Actually Jindl, if the ghost touch works as you propose, then you would actually deflect the arrow reguardless of the % roll, since you don't make that roll till after you are hit, and deflect arrows works aginst the first arrow that hits, you deflect it before damage becomes a factor, so the % die is never even rolled.
Druid Roxors 03-16-04, 06:38 PM	1 question, Can I create a Venerable character? (with the penalties/bonuses that age brings?)
Ethendril 03-16-04, 07:41 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors 1 question, Can I create a Venerable character? (with the penalties/bonuses that age brings?) Yes. If you look at some of the other characters, you will see that some have aged (the retired "Elder" was very aged).
xeno_eleusis 03-16-04, 09:11 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril ...If you look at some of the other characters, you will see that some have aged (the retired "Elder" was very aged). Question: How much does a character age each week? 1 year? Does this need to be recorded on the character sheet?
Coyote Skyheart 03-16-04, 11:19 PM	Rule question! I'm planning on using quaal's feather token: whip. I've never used a dancing weapon before, and not only that, its kind of a mix between the item description and the dancing weapon description in the DMG. So could someone check this over and see if I've got it right? Whip: +11 whip, 1d6+2, 20x2 *special* ..if hits free grapple check +15 ..melee weapon with 15'ft reach ..may make trip attacks ..+2 on opposed rolls to disarm ..dancing weapon loosed as a standard action, it fights for 4 rounds. While dancing, it cannot make attacks of opportunity, and the person who activated it is not considered armed with the weapon. In all other respects it is considered wielded and attended by the creature for all maneuvars and effects that target items (sunder action, etc) While dancing, it takes up the same space as the activating character and can attack foes within reach. The dancing weapon accompanies the person who activated it everywhere whether he moves by physical or magical means. If the one who loosed it has an unoccupied hand, he can grasp it while its attacking on its own as a free action; when so retrieved the weapon can't dance again for 4 rounds. .... My main question is...does the weapon deal subdual damage (as per the phb whip description) or does it do real damage? I do realize that a 'huge' whip, in phb terms, does happen to deal 1d6 damage. If so, this data would be added... ...deals non-lethal damage ...deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher.
Battousai2005 03-16-04, 11:19 PM	Kage Nightwind, the ronin, is ready to fight. Now my question: If someone is not to post a char and mod a fight, do they get 2 creds? Personally, i didn't think so, but thats what someone told me.
Battousai2005 03-16-04, 11:21 PM	good question. I honestly have no idea. That would explain the pricing on it tho. It is just a little too powerful for 500 gp. What does everyone think?
Rozman 03-16-04, 11:51 PM	Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart My main question is...does the weapon deal subdual damage (as per the phb whip description) or does it do real damage? I do realize that a 'huge' whip, in phb terms, does happen to deal 1d6 damage. If so, this data would be added... ...deals non-lethal damage ...deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher. Nothing in the Quaal's feather token description indicates that it would deal lethal damage, nor that it gets around the +1 armor/+3 natural armor restrcitions. On the other hand, a Huge whip has 45' reach, not 15'. Each step up in size for a weapon is x2 reach, then use the normal x2x2=x3 rules. Someone should come up with a Hardness and HP total for this thing as well, in case I decide to try and Sunder it. EDIT: For clarity.
Rosella 03-17-04, 06:17 AM	ok, Ilene is taking a break this week. She's found a friend in the woods that has boasted that he can do better! Sendril "Shadow" KnockleBat (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2869109#post2869109) is ready to play!
Jindl 03-17-04, 09:34 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 If someone is not to post a char and mod a fight, do they get 2 creds? Personally, i didn't think so, but thats what someone told me. Nope. If you have 0 characters and run 1 fight, then you get 1 credit. If you have 1 character and run 1 fight, then you get 1 credit. So, everybody should have 1 character. Originally posted by xeno_eleusis Question: How much does a character age each week? 1 year? Does this need to be recorded on the character sheet? Yep, the Elder was very old. Age effects do not occur between fights. So, if you want an old character, he must begin that way. He will not age appreciably between fights. ********************* New charactes added to the roster. Pairings will be in a couple of hours. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 09:53 AM	Someone Activate their character from the 4th level league!! I am afraid that ill be left out since the only two active characters are challenging each other.
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 10:33 AM	New character posted! Arcanis Deiito (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2872306#post2872306) the Magically obsessed. Im still giving it the finishing touches and doubt it will be active for this week's Fights.
Magagumo 03-17-04, 10:42 AM	Zorander challenges Johan to a test of respective strengths.
Myrridin 03-17-04, 11:28 AM	So yeah, I was thinking of taking the feats to make myself a golem. Then I remembered, they don't fly, and they're hideously expensive, and should someone destroy it I'm out WAY too much gold. *sigh* Down goes another idea. I'm looking for some sort of companion for my wizard, since it seems like higher level characters all have them, or they die a lot.
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 11:33 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin So yeah, I was thinking of taking the feats to make myself a golem. Then I remembered, they don't fly, and they're hideously expensive, and should someone destroy it I'm out WAY too much gold. *sigh* Down goes another idea. I'm looking for some sort of companion for my wizard, since it seems like higher level characters all have them, or they die a lot. Cast Gate, Instant Win
Pitlords 03-17-04, 12:02 PM	Pairings Under Way. No more editing of character sheets.
Myrridin 03-17-04, 12:23 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Cast Gate, Instant Win Sure...when I hit 17th level. Now I just have to survive until then.
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 12:35 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Sure...when I hit 17th level. Now I just have to survive until then. Get a scroll, 9k/victory!! A little too expensive eh? :D
Pitlords 03-17-04, 12:39 PM	Pairings Finished. Tactics are due to your Pitlord by Friday. Pitlords may begin running fights with email/PM'd tactics on Friday. Pitlords may run fights with default tactics starting Saturday. Fights are due Monday. Late Penalties will apply on Tuesday. Good Luck to everyone! -Jindl @Caterane, Market_Share, and Tellish_of_Ket - Corrections for the Harvester (2nd) and Pale-Rider must be edited into their character sheets by Thursday and approved by Tellish_of_Ket. The primary reason for editing the sheet is so that your opponent can base his tactics off of a corrected sheet. So, get them done, and after Tellish looks them over, he'll PM me and I'll remove the violation tags.
xeno_eleusis 03-17-04, 12:52 PM	Pitlord question: If a Pitlord has two active character builds and moderates just one fight, does he break even or does he get a +credit or a -credit? Last week I had two builds and moderated one fight. This week I still have two builds and moderate two fights. Right now I'm not looking to gain credits and I just want to know the best way to break even. *edit* but I am happy to run two fights this week.
Jindl 03-17-04, 12:59 PM	@ Xeno - 2 PC's and 1 fight = 0 credits. 2 PC's and 2 fights = 1 credit. 1 PC and 0 fights = 0 credits. 1 PC and 1 fight = 1 credit 1 PC and 2 fights = 2 credits. It is unlikely that I will assign you more than 2 fights, until you have more experience as a Pitlord. I am hoping that the newer Pitlords can be assigned to higher level fights as they gain experience. When our level 13's come back to life, you will see the Elder 8 spending their time modding the highest level fights, and I'll need some of the newer Pitlords to step up and run the mid-levels. -Jindl
Jindl 03-17-04, 01:20 PM	@ Tellish, Magagumo, and Moherajikuyx Hopefully I have your attention :D There is a poll of the Elder mods on the Elder Mod Forum, and you three haven't voted yet... Please go and vote on Poll#3, so that we may clear the issue. The poll is whether you can copy spells from NPC spellbooks at 50 gp per spell level, or whether you must acquire new spells by purchasing scrolls and scribing them. Thanks! -Jindl
Caterane 03-17-04, 01:31 PM	The Council reacts a bit slow for my taste. We are only 8 people who frequently browse this board. It shouldn`t be much of a problem to post Yes or No in the thread. I announced the polls twice already and still not everyone replied. Please, Elder Mods, one of the reason why we have a Council of 8 is the faster reaction time but I`ve seen nothing of it until now. Being an Elder Mod comes with a small responsibility and one of these is voting in the Council. We keep the current ruling for now. My next step is to PM everyone to make a vote but is that really necessary? And I assure you I have a whole bag of "next steps" with me... :smirk: Cat
Caterane 03-17-04, 01:58 PM	1. Shouldn`t the spell stored within a ring of counterspelling not been listed as a prebuff and use up a slot? 2. If I ready an action to cast Dispel magic and then follow with another dispel magic on my turn --> the other guy - let`s call him Male-Rider - can´t recharge his ring before the second dispel hits, right?
xeno_eleusis 03-17-04, 02:56 PM	Originally posted by Jindl 2 PC's and 1 fight = 0 credits. 2 PC's and 2 fights = 1 credit. 1 PC and 0 fights = 0 credits. 1 PC and 1 fight = 1 credit 1 PC and 2 fights = 2 credits.Thanks. That's what I thought. I think that 2 fights a week as pitlord is my max for now. There should be a correction to my credits. I pitlorded 1 fight last week and PC'ed two buils. So last week I should have 0 credits. This week I PL 2 fights and have 2 builds so that is where I should get my first credit.
Jindl 03-17-04, 03:08 PM	Originally posted by Caterane 1. Shouldn`t the spell stored within a ring of counterspelling not been listed as a prebuff and use up a slot? 2. If I ready an action to cast Dispel magic and then follow with another dispel magic on my turn --> the other guy - let`s call him Male-Rider - can´t recharge his ring before the second dispel hits, right? 1. Spells stored in spell-storing items are counted like equipment, and do not use up a spell-slot. 2. Yes, in your scenario, your readied action would drain his ring, interrupting his standard action (which he cannot change). Then you are reset to be before him in intitiative, which would allow you to cast another dispel magic before he got another standard action. This is a valid method of overcoming a ring of counterspelling. Some gladiators have already created countermeasures to this, such as Iron who wears two rings of counterspelling, or Brackin who wears three! -Jindl
kattattack22 03-17-04, 03:23 PM	Tatics for Ony vs. Aku have been sent to Market_Share.
Myrridin 03-17-04, 03:37 PM	Tactics for Zephin have been sent to Battousai
xeno_eleusis 03-17-04, 03:54 PM	Question: Does an opposed Grapple check use an attack roll? Reason: True Strike gives a +20 insight bonus on the next single attack roll. Would this give a +20 to an opposed grapple check.
sshuit 03-17-04, 04:28 PM	Re : True strike and grapple. Since you need to make a touch attack to initiate a grapple, that would use it up right there. If you cast true strike and then were grappled, I don't think that would apply to the opposed grapple check since it's not an attack roll per se. sshuit
Jindl 03-17-04, 04:34 PM	Since true strike has no somatic components, you could cast it while grappling, and then use its benefit during your action to help your grapple check. However, I would limit it to grapple checks that are offensive in nature (dealing damage or pinning). I would not let it help you if your grapple check was to escape a grapple, draw a weapon, or move the grapple - as I don't consider these things to be attacks. To be an attack roll, the grapple check must deal damage or inflict a condition (such as pinned). -Jindl
kattattack22 03-17-04, 04:35 PM	Grappling requires a melee touch attack before you make a grapple check so True Strike would give you +20 to that. Grease on the other hand gives +10 to escape artist checks if you cast it on yourself. If you are looking into resisting a grapple consider using a stilled grease spell.
MotherBast 03-17-04, 05:49 PM	Tactics sent to Cat and Mag. Let me know if you see any problems with them. Only MO's vote is still missing on the Elder Mod's thread. Which, btw, someone should stick to the first page here, or it will just get farther and farther burried. It is currently 4:3, so depending on MO's vote, this one could possibly be another tie. Its a shame he is away this week.
honeynuggets 03-17-04, 05:56 PM	p. 117 DMG Sample 5th level Fighter S 16 D 15 C 16 I 10 W 12 Ch 8 p. 117 MM Sample Ghost 5th level Fighter (Racial CON reduced to 0, and CHA +4) S 16 D 13 C 0 I 10 W 12 Ch 12 The point I am trying to make is that WoTC basically just applied the Ghost Template to the sample 5th level fighter (except for the lower DEX which might be a typo since the Ghost template has no DEX change). The sample Ghost should actually have AC +1 more. Anna the Ghost seems to have known ahead of time that she would become a ghost because she spent no points on STR and CON while mortal. Anna the Rng3 Rog2 while living would have had the following ability scores: Ranger 3, Rogue 2 Abilities: STR: 6 -2 [0 pts, racial] DEX: 23 +6 [16 pts, +2 racial, +1 4th, +2 gloves] CON: 8 -1 [0 pts, racial] INT: 12 +1 [4 pts] WIS: 14 +2 [6 pts] CHA: 18 +4 [10 pts, +2 cloak] So we know why she died at 5th level hehe. It's not a rule violation or anything but I wanted to break down the mechanism by which such a high Ghost AC was achieved, that is, by pumping DEX and CHA. This is a very good build and powerfully executed as well. If the ghost I encountered in RPGA had been driven by Anna's owner my whole party would have died horribly. Beware all, there is a deceptively thin line between life and death in adventures depending on who DMs...even with fair rulings. What I can't figure out is how Anna's melee touch is +11. I calculate +3 Rng3, +1 Rog2, -2 STR = +2.
Hatzinger 03-17-04, 06:30 PM	tactics sent to: Caterane for Oetzi (vs. Grimlock) and to Myrridin for Heinrich (vs. Kage)
MotherBast 03-17-04, 06:44 PM	Well, Anna actually had no class levels when she died, since she has gained all her levels after she became a ghost. She must have been a very rich girl to have all that nifty EQ and no class levels.
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 06:46 PM	Just as a side note, this could be a valuable resource for those of you who leave home without your books. I allways use this site when logging in from school. Yes, Its my site (hosting) but the content was not made by me. It has some errors, but im trying to fix them up. 3.5 SRD Recopilation (http://rodoserv.8m.com) - Ignore the banner - :)
Caterane 03-17-04, 06:48 PM	@Druid Roxor: Perhaps add a link for a pop-up blocker too :smirk: Good ressource though
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 06:49 PM	woops, didn't notice, I have a popup blocker at all times! hehe Sorry about that Best Bar, Best blocker. Download now or die Google Toolbar (http://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/adclick?adurl=http://toolbar.google.com&sa=l&ai=Aed5kiQOWARruIwsrgNesE-uC66foFwNtW2YAaSKhLGQPBApTAAthDEQABQ7Eqm q9-PAAAAAA)
xeno_eleusis 03-17-04, 06:51 PM	Tactics sent for Boafer Stonewill - ECL3
Caterane 03-17-04, 06:53 PM	Oh my god, Xeno is going to link all his fights in his sig!! Imagine Mo would do this! At least he won`t beat Mag`s sigs in length :D
xeno_eleusis 03-17-04, 06:54 PM	Tactics received, from Sendril "Shadow" Knocklebat - ECL2
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 06:56 PM	@ Cat: LOL
xeno_eleusis 03-17-04, 06:57 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Oh my god, Xeno is going to link all his fights in his sig!!Actually, It's just going to be a link to all my current builds and their last fights, I promise. ** edit ** There, that's better.
Caterane 03-17-04, 07:01 PM	Oh, no problem. Go ahead. That dude is completely crazy! User CP --> Edit profile --> Signiture display limit: 1 line :cool:
Hatzinger 03-17-04, 07:02 PM	no more booing at the victor? :weep:
Jindl 03-17-04, 07:04 PM	Originally posted by honeynuggets p. 117 DMG Sample 5th level Fighter S 16 D 15 C 16 I 10 W 12 Ch 8 p. 117 MM Sample Ghost 5th level Fighter (Racial CON reduced to 0, and CHA +4) S 16 D 13 C 0 I 10 W 12 Ch 12 The point I am trying to make is that WoTC basically just applied the Ghost Template to the sample 5th level fighter (except for the lower DEX which might be a typo since the Ghost template has no DEX change). The sample Ghost should actually have AC +1 more. Anna the Ghost seems to have known ahead of time that she would become a ghost because she spent no points on STR and CON while mortal. Anna the Rng3 Rog2 while living would have had the following ability scores: Ranger 3, Rogue 2 Abilities: STR: 6 -2 [0 pts, racial] DEX: 23 +6 [16 pts, +2 racial, +1 4th, +2 gloves] CON: 8 -1 [0 pts, racial] INT: 12 +1 [4 pts] WIS: 14 +2 [6 pts] CHA: 18 +4 [10 pts, +2 cloak] So we know why she died at 5th level hehe. It's not a rule violation or anything but I wanted to break down the mechanism by which such a high Ghost AC was achieved, that is, by pumping DEX and CHA. This is a very good build and powerfully executed as well. If the ghost I encountered in RPGA had been driven by Anna's owner my whole party would have died horribly. Beware all, there is a deceptively thin line between life and death in adventures depending on who DMs...even with fair rulings. What I can't figure out is how Anna's melee touch is +11. I calculate +3 Rng3, +1 Rog2, -2 STR = +2. Glad you like her. Anna was a halfling rogue 1, who specialized in using her Charisma + skills to procure and train animals for the arena. Back in those days, the arena was much more gruesome, with ritual killings beginning each match (and we have seen a resurgence of that, with Hatzinger's pixie slaying fetish.) Well, the arena administration ritually killed each of Anna's "pets" until they were all dead. Then, when Anna protested, they ritually killed Anna. That is how she became a ghost, and why she hates the Arena so much. When alive, she was quite beatiful and quite frail. That's why she trained her animals to steal for her. And how she got all of her stuff when she was alive. But, that is another story... As for her melee touch, Ghosts add their dex mod to melee attacks when manifested (not their str mod). And there is a size bonus for being small. Her melee touch is +5 base +1 size +7 dex = +13. When using two weapon fighting, it becomes +11 / +11. And when hasted with two weapon fighting, it becomes +12 / +12 / +12. Thats a quick way to lose 3d4 pts of an ability score. And I shouldn't neglect to mention that Anna gains 5 hps everytime she hits with her draining touch. -Jindl
Caterane 03-17-04, 07:08 PM	and we have seen a resurgence of that, with Hatzinger's pixie slaying fetish Aha, I might aswell join in after I moderated Kiri this week :banghead:
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 07:08 PM	Anna needs to be able to cast Improved invisibility, Fast
Jindl 03-17-04, 07:13 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Anna needs to be able to cast Improved invisibility, Fast Why? She has a +38 to her hide check, and will be getting Hide in Plain Sight very soon... -Jindl
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 07:19 PM	So that she can attack and drain while being right besides the enemy, her attack is not a ranged weapon, so she cannot hide as a snip.
Jindl 03-17-04, 07:22 PM	Yeah, that would be nice. Perhaps I should get a scroll: greater invis. My UMD is good enough to use it. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 07:24 PM	Thats what I was refering to, but I didn't think your UMD was that high, specially with -5 levels.. But then I remembered about +4 to Cha! ;)
sshuit 03-17-04, 07:27 PM	That is true but, True strike does also require a Focus, (Archery Target) so unless you happened to have it in 1 hand when grappled I think you'd have to succeed in a grapple check to fetch it before being able to cast it (which as you said does not require a somatic component) sshuit Originally posted by Jindl Since true strike has no somatic components, you could cast it while grappling, and then use its benefit during your action to help your grapple check. However, I would limit it to grapple checks that are offensive in nature (dealing damage or pinning). I would not let it help you if your grapple check was to escape a grapple, draw a weapon, or move the grapple - as I don't consider these things to be attacks. To be an attack roll, the grapple check must deal damage or inflict a condition (such as pinned). -Jindl
KerlanRayne 03-17-04, 08:00 PM	@Druid: My favorite version of the SRD is Sovelior's SRD (http://www.geocities.com/sovelior/srd/). I've posted it before. It has pictures and I have saved it all to my hard drive. KerlanRayne
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 08:05 PM	Wow, thats a nice SRD. I might begin using it myself, hehe.
^Rayne^ 03-17-04, 08:15 PM	I noticed Aiki isn't fighting Dusk? What happened? Ethendril had Dusk challenge my PC and I accepted the challenge. It is posted at the top of Aiki's sheet and also in the roleplay section. Can this pairing be fixed back up? I don't know that Ethendril has realized yet his PC isn't matched up against mine. Still this is the 2nd time this sort of thing has happened to me in the last few weeks. Please can I have the pairing fixed this time?
Magagumo 03-17-04, 08:18 PM	Hmm, yea, my sigs were mostrous beasts ;) Ah well, short and simple for now, and newly djusted after learning the meaning ebhind the "No Moderator" movement :). Bot Brackin's tactics, seemed reasonable at first glance (i.e. didn't give me a list of prepared spells for a monk or anything ;)) I'll let you know if tricky business comes up. Working on tactics for Zorander, should have them out by tomorrow.
Druid Roxors 03-17-04, 08:20 PM	@ Rayne: In fact, I requested that someone would activate their character at level 4 so that I could get a chance. But, Since Ethendril has another character at a higher level active (which is not on an Odd situation) his level 4 character was left out. But don't worry, you can fight him next week, unless of course you beat me... Muahahha (If you really want to fight him, Alright, Ill stand off this week) Edit: Yes, thatsa a challenge!
Battousai2005 03-17-04, 09:11 PM	Tactics sent for Kage. Tactics recieved for Boafer Stonewill vs Zephin Telloran. Fight will hopefully be up by sat
^Rayne^ 03-17-04, 09:32 PM	Druid Roxors, it isn't that I don't want to fight you. I just feel bad seeing his PC get left out when a challenge was made and accepted. I had this happen to me and like him I got left out on that match because of the error. I haven't done anything to make Aiki more prepared for a battle with his PC as compared to a battle with you. I guess that sort of makes me a poor player but I just want to take the time to buy all sorts of gear to maybe win a fight. Besides that sometimes these pairings don't happen (as we see here) and so it works out better for me that I didn't buy anything special for that battle as that whole plan is tossed out the window now. Anyway if the moderators don't plan on changing it I am happy to fight you. You are probably correct in that my PC will probably still be 4th level next week and get the challenge then. We shall see.
Mustadio[MoF] 03-17-04, 09:38 PM	Pard's tactics sent. Poor poor unlucky Pard. :P
xeno_eleusis 03-17-04, 09:42 PM	Originally posted by Mustadio[MoF] Pard's tactics sent. Poor poor unlucky Pard. :P Tactics received for Pard - ECL3
MotherBast 03-17-04, 10:06 PM	Rayne: Challanges are always the last thing concidered when making pairings for fights. This is to ensure that all players have an equal chance at a fight, and someone can't simply issue a challange to ensure they get a fight. Fist thing checked is # of PCs. Second comes the dosen't fight roll. Lastly comes challanges.
^Rayne^ 03-17-04, 10:35 PM	I wasn't aware Challenges had become last priority. Thanks for the information. I thought they used to be first priority in pairings but I see now that isn't the case. Anyway do what you gotta do.
freemoody 03-17-04, 11:42 PM	Can Druids take the Multiattack feat after they gain the Wildshape ability?
Druid Roxors 03-18-04, 12:12 AM	Yes, and any other monster feat for which he has the prerequisites. (INA comes to mind)
Druid Roxors 03-18-04, 12:15 AM	@ Tellish: Wow. I can't wait to read your Ursine Build! (Is he an animal growthed Huge Dire Bear Druid?)
Tellish_of_Ket 03-18-04, 12:22 AM	Originally posted by freemoody Can Druids take the Multiattack feat after they gain the Wildshape ability? No, because a druid (human one at least) does not have 3 or more natural attacks. (Is he an animal growthed Huge Dire Bear Druid?) Something like that i'd have to start as a level 2 druid. And a dire bear can't use a spiked chain. heheh No, reason why i haven't posted him yet is because i'm still debating on which permutation to use. Go for the 48 str or tone it down and get better skills, con, and other all-a-round kind of build things. A spiked chain gladiator with 30' reach though is pretty awesome if you ask me. If nothing else, he'll just look cool. *EDIT* Oh, and despite having 30' reach and being 15' tall, he can also fly. MUWHAHAHHAHA...MUAHSHHh...uwhaha....uah. ...ah -ToK *edit* saving scroll space Originally posted by Druid Roxors OOOOoookay... are you telling me that all that applies at level 2!? I do not believe it. I guess seeing is believing. No, i meant your druid suggestion would have to start at level 2 as i cannot just "create" an 13th lvl druid.
Druid Roxors 03-18-04, 01:04 AM	OOOOoookay... are you telling me that all that applies at level 2!? I do not believe it. I guess seeing is believing. I'd go for the ~40 strenght character. But thats just me. I once created a druid similar to what you describe... but he was level 12. Im eager to see what evil schemes you have developed.
^Rayne^ 03-18-04, 01:55 AM	Motherbast, I have sent you Aiki's tactics for his battle against Corinthus Avius. I look forward to seeing the results. Rayne
xeno_eleusis 03-18-04, 02:22 AM	Tactics sent for Jaydai - ECL3 Tactics sent for Boafer - ECL3 Tactics received from Pard - ECL3 Tactics received from Sendril "Shadow" Knocklebat - ECL2 Still waiting for tactics from Aemon - ECL3 Still waiting for tactics from Jo'Li - ECL2
Rosella 03-18-04, 03:02 AM	Not that I'm a poll fanatic or something; but can't we just vote for Roll-out vs. Challenge (as in which comes first?) I've got a feeling that the Challenge would come on top.
Hatzinger 03-18-04, 03:10 AM	Tactics received from: Brock Granitehand, Tellish_of_Ket (vs. Smergel, Smergel) Jaydai, xeno_eleusis (vs. Laucian Loyalar, Arstimis) PS: Hey, Myrridin, that is the nicest thing someone has said to me in an email for a long time. :devil:
Tellish_of_Ket 03-18-04, 03:32 AM	Originally posted by Rosella Not that I'm a poll fanatic or something; but can't we just vote for Roll-out vs. Challenge (as in which comes first?) I've got a feeling that the Challenge would come on top. And that's precisely why it will never happen. :D Challenges cannot come before fairness to all. -ToK
Pittbull 03-18-04, 04:47 AM	Tactics have been sent!!!!!!!
Beldin 03-18-04, 07:21 AM	@Xeno aemons tactics have been send!
Rosella 03-18-04, 07:44 AM	I don't think it's unfair to reward challenges :( It gets people involved.
xeno_eleusis 03-18-04, 08:11 AM	Originally posted by Beldin @Xeno aemons tactics have been send! Tactics received from Aeomon - ECL3
Myrridin 03-18-04, 08:47 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger PS: Hey, Myrridin, that is the nicest thing someone has said to me in an email for a long time. :devil: I just like that you're intentionally toying with your opponent when they can't do anything to you...evil. :D
Magagumo 03-18-04, 08:56 AM	Hmm... I seem to recall reading that Druids can take Multiattack (or Weapon Focus (claw, bite, talon, etc.)) provided they can shape into a form that has three natural attacks (or has that naturl attack, for the WF).
Rozman 03-18-04, 09:28 AM	Originally posted by Rosella I don't think it's unfair to reward challenges :( It gets people involved. Then each week would turn turn into "The Race for a Challenge!" An exciting time when those who have access to the site during the day/week/etc. get to set up fights with one another, while those who can only check the site at night/every couple of days/etc. get to sit out. Instead of rewarding those who participate in RP (which has nothing to do with testing your build, yes?) they are instead choosing to not punish those with limited access.
kattattack22 03-18-04, 10:13 AM	There is also potential for abuse if people only challenge those characters they think can beat. Of course, those people would have to accept, but you never know what people will do.
Jindl 03-18-04, 10:13 AM	Originally posted by Magagumo Hmm... I seem to recall reading that Druids can take Multiattack (or Weapon Focus (claw, bite, talon, etc.)) provided they can shape into a form that has three natural attacks (or has that naturl attack, for the WF). Mag is correct. A druid can qualify with feats if he can meet the pre-reqs through wild shape. However, the feat will only work when the druid is able to meet the pre-reqs. So, if a druid can wildshape into a leopard, he can take MultiAttack. But when he is wildshaped into a light horse (or other creature with only 2 natural attacks), he doesn't gain the benefits of Multi-Attack. Or another example: The druid with a Str of 10 can take Power Attack, if he can wildshape into a brown bear (to get his Str high enough). But he loses access to Power Attack when in any form that doesn't have at least the 13 Str that is required. Of course losing access to Power Attack will also cause him to lose access to other feats, like Improved Sunder, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, etc. -Jindl
Myrridin 03-18-04, 10:16 AM	Can you run a horse, for the 4x movement, and then, as the rider, make an attack?
Jindl 03-18-04, 01:00 PM	I see many of you are already voting. But I wanted to make a formal announcement: There is a new poll to vote on. The issue is whether Wizards can gain new spells by paying a NPC to copy from (at 50 gp per spell level), or if they must buy a scroll to copy from. The cost of materials to scribe the spell into the PC's spellbook is not at issue, only the cost to acquire the spell. Please go to the poll and vote. Remember to post your vote in addition to clicking on the poll. The vote will end on 3/22, which gives us enough time to implement the result before next week's pairings. Thanks! -Jindl
Ethendril 03-18-04, 01:07 PM	@Cat: Tactics for Kiri sent.
Ethendril 03-18-04, 01:14 PM	@Jindl: I check out Anna's sheet every time I want to be scared (like watching a scary movie). One question: Can alchemist's fire be used as a pre-buff (ready to throw)? I thought that this had to be prepped inside the arena, not out. -Ethendril
Jindl 03-18-04, 01:17 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril @Jindl: I check out Anna's sheet every time I want to be scared (like watching a scary movie). One question: Can alchemist's fire be used as a pre-buff (ready to throw)? I thought that this had to be prepped inside the arena, not out. -Ethendril When ^Rayne^ asked that question for his kobold samurai a couple of weeks ago, the unanimous decision was Yes. So, Anna has prepared her alchemist fires as a pre-buff. Also, its supposed to be scary. She's a ghost. Just wait til she gets her cohort... -Jindl
Ethendril 03-18-04, 01:47 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Just wait til she gets her cohort... -Jindl [/B] Yeah, I noticed that, and I've been speculating as to what it would be...another ghost?
Jindl 03-18-04, 01:49 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Yeah, I noticed that, and I've been speculating as to what it would be...another ghost? Maybe a pixie :devil: It's a shame pixies can't become ghosts, there's been many of them killed in the arena lately, just like Anna was. I'm sure she could find a recruit. In all seriousness, I'm having trouble deciding between about 5 different possibilities. -Jindl
Hatzinger 03-18-04, 02:32 PM	which ones? please, share your thoughts with us... if just to drive the horror deeper into our hearts...
MotherBast 03-18-04, 04:04 PM	Jindl: Just reading over your tactics, and one thing I feel you need to be made aware of, as does anyone who runs Anna in the future. You repetadly refer to the "miss chance", but Anna does not have any miss chance. She has a 50% chance to avoid damage from any succesful corpral attack. That is quite different from a miss chance. For one, it will not affect anything about the attack other than damage. It also dosen't qualify as concealment. It will be no benifit at all aginst targeted non-damaging spells, such as dispel for example. I pointed this out to Mag when Candy fought Anna, and he marked it in red on the tactics. I also pointed it out on the last page of the tavern, but I guess you missed it.
Myrridin 03-18-04, 04:04 PM	Kage vs Heinrich (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2889923#post2889923) Enjoy the fight. As always, let me know what's wrong with it.
Druid Roxors 03-18-04, 04:15 PM	@ Motherbast: Tactics Sent for Corinthus Avius
Druid Roxors 03-18-04, 04:24 PM	@ Myrridin: havn't finished, but how did Kage get in melee range of Heinrich? If he started mounted his position has obstacles and cannot run in a streight line. Otherwise, he needs a Fastmount check, an animal handling check, and a ride check to move his horse. Charging gives you a +2 in attack, so his attack would have been a hit. Considering that all the last issues are cleared. Mounted Combat (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196914)
Hatzinger 03-18-04, 04:52 PM	@Myrridin: Brilliant fight. I had much fun reading it. :D @Battousai: tyvm! (and sorry about the horse. i just couldn´t resist. :devil: )
Arstimis 03-18-04, 05:06 PM	First I think he could start mounted so no fast mount check. There isn't a reason for a handle animal check. I don't think kage could attack after doing the quad move. Also he should only be able to get within 10 ft with a 50 ft base speed, as calculated by Magagumo Also I think kage or the horse could get far enough away and behind enough pillars to not allow all those many bow shots, because there wouldn't be a line of sight Also, I didn't know it was possible to use a longbow while climbing, how would he hold on while using two hands for his bow
Jindl 03-18-04, 05:21 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast I pointed this out to Mag when Candy fought Anna, and he marked it in red on the tactics. I also pointed it out on the last page of the tavern, but I guess you missed it. Yeah, I did miss it. Having just looked over it again in the SRD, I think you are right. Being incorporeal is no protection against dispel magic. This is a little different that how it was in 3.0. Sorry for the confusion. -Jindl
Caterane 03-18-04, 06:15 PM	@Jindl: Why did you use the Pitlords account to open the fights of the week thread? This account has no GM status = less options. Better use your own next time. I fear Shadow has to intervene again (less meal for the kids again :( )
Arstimis 03-18-04, 06:46 PM	@Hatzinger: Tactics for Laucian sent
Hatzinger 03-18-04, 07:16 PM	@Arstimis: ...and received. Fight prolly tomorrow.
xeno_eleusis 03-18-04, 09:25 PM	Tactics received from Jo'Li - ECL2 I should have my fights posted either Friday night or Saturday night.
Jindl 03-18-04, 11:31 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Jindl: Why did you use the Pitlords account to open the fights of the week thread? This account has no GM status = less options. Better use your own next time. I fear Shadow has to intervene again (less meal for the kids again :( ) Doh! Doh! Um, sorry Shadow... -Jindl
JonahBlack 03-18-04, 11:56 PM	Tactics for Grimlock sent via PM!
Mustadio[MoF] 03-19-04, 12:32 AM	I have an idea for a build, but I don't want to retire Pard, is there any way I can put Pard on hold while I try out my other build? (If there is absolutly no alternative, I'm willing to try modding)
^Rayne^ 03-19-04, 01:09 AM	^I believe you can have multiple PC's and not moderate fights as long as only one PC is fighting each week (that is what I am currently doing with Vryk and Aiki). I have been told that is fine and I am even thinking about making a couple additional PC's that I run in a rotation. I'm not trying to get to 20th level as fast as I can so this works out fine with me. From everything I've been told you shouldn't have any problem having two active PC's as long as only one of them fights in a week. If you want both of them to fight in the same week they you will have to moderate a fight to gain a credit in order to have two active PC's.
Mustadio[MoF] 03-19-04, 01:12 AM	Thanx!
Rozman 03-19-04, 01:19 AM	@Druid Roxors: Tactics for Ilmanur vs. Shiaan submitted by PM.
Druid Roxors 03-19-04, 10:01 AM	Good, Ill start the fight as soon as possible
Ethendril 03-19-04, 10:57 AM	What was the ruling on paladins and rangers with no caster level using wands? EDIT: Okay, thanks Jindl.
Jindl 03-19-04, 11:12 AM	Yes, they can use them (according to the DMG). -Jindl
Hatzinger 03-19-04, 11:55 AM	i need your help on this topic: lets say a character wants to dismount from his heavy warhorse and send the warhorse off to fight an enemy in melee, while the character himself stays away from the enemy. question: can he do that? the only rule i could find that could affect this situation is the SRD/Combat/Special Attacks/Mounted combat rule. it says that if a rider gets unconscious, the mount will: "Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat."
Ethendril 03-19-04, 12:23 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger i need your help on this topic: lets say a character wants to dismount from his heavy warhorse and send the warhorse off to fight an enemy in melee, while the character himself stays away from the enemy. question: can he do that? the only rule i could find that could affect this situation is the SRD/Combat/Special Attacks/Mounted combat rule. it says that if a rider gets unconscious, the mount will: "Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat." If the animal knows the attack action, which a warhorse does, you can have it attack on its own. Gorga was known to send her horses off to die while she buffed up (and it worked, I should add).
Jindl 03-19-04, 12:39 PM	@Hatz - Just remember that it takes a move action and a DC 10 Handle Animal check to get an animal to do a trick that it knows. @MotherBast - Based on the enlightening information about "incorporeal miss chance" which you provided, I have revised my tactics. I just sent you the revised tactics (please forgive me, for it took 3 PM's to send...) Please let me know if there are any problems with my revised tactics. Thanks! -Jindl
Hatzinger 03-19-04, 12:51 PM	ok, every new character gets a free set of clothing. but is that clothing weightless or does it weight the normal amount for its type? same question for wizard´s spellbooks is irrelevant, since you can leave them in the locker room.
^Rayne^ 03-19-04, 01:05 PM	Hatzinger I had this question about the clothing a few weeks back and it turns out that the starting clothing your PC wears doesn't count against starting money or starting weight. The clothing does have weight but it isn't counted against the weight your PC can carry normally. Basically it is a case of your PC can hold everything on hi weight table + the clothing he is wearing (for free). It is in the Player handbook but offhand I don't remember the page.
Hatzinger 03-19-04, 01:10 PM	oh damn. had i known this, my mage would wander around in ROYAL outfit. :D
^Rayne^ 03-19-04, 01:15 PM	lol, thanks for the laugh. ;)
Tellish_of_Ket 03-19-04, 03:32 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger question: can he do that? the only rule i could find that could affect this situation is the SRD/Combat/Special Attacks/Mounted combat rule. it says that if a rider gets unconscious, the mount will: "Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat." And i will repeat this here Hatzinger, DEFEND overrides that. If my mount did NOT have the defend trick, i would agree 100%, but it does and it will defend me. Also, i don't need to make any handle animal checks for this to work, only if i want it to defend someone else. It works automatically for me. -ToK
Hatzinger 03-19-04, 03:43 PM	lol, ToK. I have a life other than with you. :D that question has nothing to do with YOUR fight.
Jindl 03-19-04, 03:44 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket And i will repeat this here Hatzinger, DEFEND overrides that. If my mount did NOT have the defend trick, i would agree 100%, but it does and it will defend me. Also, i don't need to make any handle animal checks for this to work, only if i want it to defend someone else. It works automatically for me. -ToK Defend only works if you are attacked. Suppose he wanted to send the warhorse off to attack his foe, before his foe has attacked him. Then he would need to make the Handle Animal check (DC 10) as a move action to tell the warhorse to Attack. Defend is an automatic reaction to your opponent's attack. Attack is required if your opponent has not attacked you yet. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 03-19-04, 03:52 PM	Yes Jindl of course. I wrote that under the assumption i was under attack and made uncouncious. @Hat: What? You mean your life doesn't revolve around me? But why? :schemes: LOL -ToK
MotherBast 03-19-04, 05:44 PM	Anna vs. Spike is finnished. Not to spoil it, but my d20 hated one of these gladiators. It always rolled 15 on the meaningless rolls, but always rolled a 2 on the ones that mattered. Only one 20, and that was a skill check. Not a single 1 in the entire fight though. It should be posted soon.
Caterane 03-19-04, 05:59 PM	Tactics for the Harvester sent! Tactics received for: D'rkrie'l Mouring, Ötze, Jagass Kir, Angosh, Grimlock and Kiri. @Jonah: If possible, please send me your tactics per email. @all: Please do not send me tactics per PM. Always email (or call me on the phone :D )
barrel_master 03-19-04, 06:17 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast Anna vs. Spike is finnished. Not to spoil it, but my d20 hated one of these gladiators. It always rolled 15 on the meaningless rolls, but always rolled a 2 on the ones that mattered. Only one 20, and that was a skill check. Not a single 1 in the entire fight though. It should be posted soon. I would have thought that Anna would win this one hands but then again maybe not.
JonahBlack 03-19-04, 06:21 PM	Caterane: Per your request, I've emailed you my tactics
Arstimis 03-19-04, 06:46 PM	@Magagumo: Kiowen's Tactics have been sent
Caterane 03-19-04, 06:57 PM	@Jonah: I didnt get them. I`ll use the PM tactic then
MotherBast 03-19-04, 07:36 PM	Anna vs. Spike posted. I belive it is error free, as there was very little in this fight subject to error. I noted the only things qustionable at the end of the fight, but neither of them would have impacted the fight much I belive. Enjoy. edit: Made a very small adjustment to the last round of the fight, which had no impact on the overall fight.
Caterane 03-19-04, 07:57 PM	@MB: Hide from undead: Undead cannot see, hear, or smell the warded creatures. Even extraordinary or supernatural sensory capabilities, such as blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense, cannot detect or locate warded creatures. That`s a major major error. It didn`t affect the outcome but that was just because of the rolls. Edit: (+19 skill - 25 due to range, DC 20, not possible at the moment Spot checks to spot invisible creatures are only possible within 30ft
barrel_master 03-19-04, 08:20 PM	Props to Jindle on Anna's build. *spoiler* A character had to gear his weapons towards defeating Anna before she was actually beaten. Props to market_share for beating Anna. On a side note to market_share: 'A summoner should summon'? Ha ha, Peter's actually wasn't supposed to be a summoner, besides, I hated the idea that I'd have to summon like 40 things and attack spike from range... quite frankly that's hard on the mods. :)
MotherBast 03-19-04, 08:51 PM	Barrel, if your going to post a spoiler, at least give a warning please. Some people might not have read the fight yet. Cat: I did not know that about the inside 30' thing, but as Anna never spotted Spike, it didn't matter. As for the hide form Undead bit, read it again. It says that if an intellagent undead has reason to belive a warded creature is present, it can not see the creature, but may attempt other means to find and/or strike it. I took that to mean it could do everything except see the warded creature. Anna definatly had reason to belive Spike was out there. I could be wrong about this interpratation, but even if I was, it just means Jindl would have not used the 5 charges from the wand. If I am mistaken, I would gladly give Anna her 5 charges back, as she would have just readied untill the point that Spike appeared.
Magagumo 03-19-04, 08:52 PM	Where is this "30' to pinpoint" line from, Cat? I've heard it before, but have never seen solid evidence for it. Mind elucidating the reference for us? :)
Caterane 03-19-04, 08:59 PM	@MB: With 'see' they mean 'percieve' 'If it has reason to believe' is not 'if it hears it'. With 'reason to believe' they mean something like with the arena where there`s definately someone. @Mag: DMG,p 295 Question: I just worked on a lich character but then I saw the 120.000 gp requirement for a phylactery. Now, do I get this phylactery for free? If not, a lich won`t be an option for the arena. The phylactery doesn`t affect any fight so that should be ok.
Alterlat 03-19-04, 09:15 PM	There are two different Spot checks that can be made against invisible opponents. One is a DC 20 check to notice (but not pinpoint) and invisible opponent within 30'. The other is attempting to beat the opponent's Hide check by 20, which pinpoints them, and doesn't have a range limit (just distance penalties).
Magagumo 03-19-04, 09:32 PM	@Cat I think the 120k is essential, but I wodner if it couldn't be broken up into 4 "easy" 30k payments? :) After all, Lich's have a +4 level adjustment, but the WoC have kindly presented us with a level-by-level progression on their main D & D board. I see no reason why this progression couldn't be implemented, and your lich could pay the 30k for each level, reflecting the further additions to his phylactery as he gains more power. I'm afraid the cheating death powers of the lich, ghost, and vampire are a bit lost upon our fair arena *Shrug* Edit: Yea, Alterlat is right- DC 20 is a base DC to notice that something's around, giving players a basic chance to know they''re being stalked. However, the supremely keen-eyed can still pinpoint, but the +20 is made to make it an incredibly difficult task. Never noticed the base DC, but then again, my players have blindsense 30' and blindsense 60' (bloody drgaon hatchling ;)) so it doesn't come up for them... good to use vs. my sneaky arcane trickster though :devil: Edit 2: Zorander's tactics sent out, got Kiowen and Grym's, will run fight v. soon.
barrel_master 03-19-04, 10:52 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast Barrel, if your going to post a spoiler, at least give a warning please. Some people might not have read the fight yet. Unfortunately I forgot.
MotherBast 03-19-04, 11:06 PM	I agree Cat. Anna defanatly had reason to belive Spike was out there. And even if the book "ment" percive, it specificly says "sees". So, untill they errata the book to match what they ment, it disagrees with the intent. And unfortunatly, the printed word is always the bottom line. Still, its open for interpration either way.
Jindl 03-19-04, 11:10 PM	Comments/Questions on the Anna fight should be posted on the Fights 3/17 thread. I'm posting one there now... -Jindl
sshuit 03-19-04, 11:33 PM	Zorander vs Johan is up. There was a total breakdown in strategy so I hope no one is too upset with the result. sshuit
SnarkHunter 03-20-04, 02:29 AM	*hour and a half of catching up on 6 days worth of posts* :whatsthis Anywho I'll be sending tactics for moon-moon, revising Donkey and musing a bit about the Iron man contest tonight. And if I have time tomorrow (and need a break from real writting) I may post my own version of a monster fight Bilo slaughters 100 1st level commoners on a slow Sunday afternoon. Time permitting. Edit: Upon further reflection I am very tired right now, and 6 days of working with the homeless of Columbus Ohio has wearied me further. I'll do tactics sometime saturday...
MotherBast 03-20-04, 09:12 AM	Aiki vs. Cori done. Should be up soon. [edit] It is now posted.
Kaigan 03-20-04, 10:35 AM	Posted a new gladiator, Matei. Please check if there are problems and post under character violations. Thanks.
Caterane 03-20-04, 12:46 PM	@Elder Mods: There are 2 new polls in the Council. The first one deals with adding Ride to the list of circumstance bonus skills. I saw that at least three Elders made a note in their post that Ride shoudl be included. Perhaps the others thought so aswell but didn`t write it because it wans`t mentioned as an option. The second poll deals with wilded armor.
barrel_master 03-20-04, 01:04 PM	I changed my vote on the wizzard's spell copy thing.
MotherBast 03-20-04, 01:17 PM	CAT: the wild armor issue shouldn't be concidered for a vote. Since WotC already has an offical ruling on that issue, we should follow that ruling. If we start voting on every part of the game we just don't like, we will soon be playing a D20 game that very much isen't D&D. In the case of offical rulings like this one, I belive they should be honored.
Caterane 03-20-04, 01:23 PM	Now if you post this official ruling here with the reference I`ll remove the poll. I searched long through all the books and couldn´t find any clue about that.
Mustadio[MoF] 03-20-04, 01:36 PM	Sarah Longfellow is finished. (Pard will be inactive for 24/3) Pleaze post in the problems thread if there are any faults.
MotherBast 03-20-04, 01:42 PM	I was hopeing I wouldn't have to search through all those old threads, but If you wont take my word for it I suppose I'll have to. I'm about to leave my house, but when I get home I'll find it for ya. Jindl, you mentioned you found it somewhere else. Perhaps you can post your source and save me the trouble of having to dig out the post from the old 3.0 Min/max boards.
Caterane 03-20-04, 01:46 PM	3.0 is a no go. We`re at 3.5. I just stick to a literal interpretation.
Druid Roxors 03-20-04, 01:48 PM	* * * The fight wasnt really what I had predicted... Its good to have clear and complete contingencies tho :) Thanks alot for running the fight! *Posted a little concern on the Fights concerns thread, not that it matters tho, but good to know*
Magagumo 03-20-04, 01:52 PM	Grym vs. Kiowen is posted. I like to see a nice, uncomplicated fight like this, where both sides have little disregard for their opponent's actions.... The players may debate the happiness of such a state of tactics, but that's for them to decide ;) Have fun kids, I should be running Moon-Moon vs. Brackin soon enough.. maybe today, maybe tomorrow, but defintely by Monday :)
xeno_eleusis 03-20-04, 02:36 PM	Originally posted by Alterlat There are two different Spot checks that can be made against invisible opponents. One is a DC 20 check to notice (but not pinpoint) and invisible opponent within 30'. The other is attempting to beat the opponent's Hide check by 20, which pinpoints them, and doesn't have a range limit (just distance penalties). DC 20 to notice but not pinpoint invisibility: please reference where you are quoting this as I cannot find it in the SRD, does it require the invisible player to hide?
Battousai2005 03-20-04, 03:18 PM	@Arsitmis: Looks like you don't have to worry bout your current status on the Hall of Fame(or shame) much longer! @Mustiado: How bout it? Kage the Ronin Challanges your newest Gladiator, Sarah, to a dual. Death take you!
Battousai2005 03-20-04, 05:28 PM	Boafer Stonewill, xeno_eleusis vs Zephin Telloran, Myrridin can be found here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2907888#post2907888) Please tell me of any mistakes. I tried, but in caster duals, i think it should be understood that mistakes are easy when it comes to spell rules.
MotherBast 03-20-04, 06:10 PM	No 3.0 stuff? Well, the rulling was made during the 3.0 era, but as long as the mecanics of wildshape that the rulling pertains too haven't changed the rulling would still stand, would it not? But, if you want to have a purley litteral rules interpration, if you ruled that wilded armor gave its penalties, you would also be ruling the un-wilded armor also gave its penalties when the druid wildshaped. Nothing in the wilding description suggests the effect stops the armor from melding. As a matter of fact, the effect only works when the armor is melded. The only thing the effect says it does is to provide the druid with the armor bonus while the armor is melded. So, the wilding effect provides the bonus, but dosen't say anthing about the penalties. So, obviously the penalty are not provided by the wilding power, so where do they come from? If the penaltys exist, it must be because a druids armor continues to provide the penaltys even when melded. That would appply to all armor, not just wilded armor. Remember, there is absolutly no difference between normal armor and wilded armor while it is melded. The wild effect provides an armor bonus, but that is due to the effect, not because the armor melds differently. So, to rule that wilded armor retains its penalties is to rule that all melded equipment contines to effect the posser. This would also then effect anyone using the Alter Self of Pollymorph spells, to which Wildshape refrences. In 3.0, any melded eq did not provide any penalties. I do not belive the melding mecanic has changed enough from 3.0 to 3.5 to warent a change in this principle.
Alterlat 03-20-04, 08:28 PM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis DC 20 to notice but not pinpoint invisibility: please reference where you are quoting this as I cannot find it in the SRD, does it require the invisible player to hide? Check it out in the SRD under Invisibility in the Special Abilities & Conditions section.
xeno_eleusis 03-20-04, 08:48 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Boafer Stonewill, xeno_eleusis vs Zephin Telloran, Myrridin can be found here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2907888#post2907888) Please tell me of any mistakes. I tried, but in caster duals, i think it should be understood that mistakes are easy when it comes to spell rules. Scorching Ray: Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels) There are more errors but I don't have the time to address them now. What killed Boafer in this battle was low rolls.
MotherBast 03-21-04, 09:04 AM	I spent an hour reading through old posts trying to find the wild-armor rulling. I haven't found it yet, but I will keep looking. I did find the ruling about the Monks belt.... to bad that discussion was like, weeks ago.... I also found a few old posts of mine.... I used to be so..... uninformed..... Back then though, I guess we all were. 3.0 was still new..... I really hope the thread I am looking for hasen't been pruned. I know the 3.0 FAQ has been changed concederably. The section on Druids has only 3 builds now..... Ah.... I still remember my first post... it was on the Bards Do Suck thread. Anybody been here long enough to remember that thread?
kedi 03-21-04, 01:11 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=190985&perpage=30&pagenumber=3 Geeez, 20 con, 24 during rage. a new mutant! :P
Myrridin 03-21-04, 01:27 PM	Ok, I'll rerun the fight, for the third time(On Monday, at work). The problem is that the tactics kind of break down for everyone at the beginning. Heinrich, I'm going to skip to the end of your tactics, which assume that Kage is unconscious from the Color Spray, and go for the CDG right off the bat. The part about taking out the horse first was in play assuming he could snipe from the spider climb.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-21-04, 01:57 PM	Both gladiators submited 5 pages of tactics . . . . . for a 4 round fight. I want to thank both spike and cat for the detailed tactics. It made adjudicating any possible twist and turn that could have arrived much easier to interpret. Both characters covered quite a bit of ground in their tactics. -ToK *EDIT* @Kedi: I believe the CoCo mutant stats would be based upon their base stat, not augmented. There are a few barbarians out there with 18 con, and raging makes it 22. So i think Cat/Jindl are just going for straight up stats without any assistance other than race/template and stuff like that.
Arstimis 03-21-04, 02:18 PM	@Kedi: I have just recieved your tactics. For future fights, you are supposed to send your tactics friday....that was 2 days ago. So remember this for next week
xeno_eleusis 03-21-04, 02:24 PM	Originally posted by Alterlat Check it out in the SRD under Invisibility in the Special Abilities & Conditions section. INVISIBILITY The ability to move about unseen is not foolproof. While they can’t be seen, invisible creatures can be heard, smelled, or felt. Invisibility makes a creature undetectable by vision, including darkvision. Invisibility does not, by itself, make a creature immune to critical hits, but it does make the creature immune to extra damage from being a ranger’s favored enemy and from sneak attacks. A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Spot check. The observer gains a hunch that “something’s there” but can’t see it or target it accurately with an attack. A creature who is holding still is very hard to notice (DC 30). An inanimate object, an unliving creature holding still, or a completely immobile creature is even harder to spot (DC 40). It’s practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature’s location with a Spot check, and even if a character succeeds on such a check, the invisible creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance). A creature can use hearing to find an invisible creature. A character can make a Listen check for this purpose as a free action each round. A Listen check result at least equal to the invisible creature’s Move Silently check result reveals its presence. (A creature with no ranks in Move Silently makes a Move Silently check as a Dexterity check to which an armor check penalty applies.) A successful check lets a character hear an invisible creature “over there somewhere.” It’s practically impossible to pinpoint the location of an invisible creature. A Listen check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible creature’s location. Listen Check DCs to Detect Invisible Creatures Invisible Creature Is . . . DC In combat or speaking 0 Moving at half speed Move Silently check result Moving at full speed Move Silently check result –4 Running or charging Move Silently check result –20 Some distance away +1 per 10 feet Behind an obstacle (door) +5 Behind an obstacle (stone wall) +15 A creature can grope about to find an invisible creature. A character can make a touch attack with his hands or a weapon into two adjacent 5-foot squares using a standard action. If an invisible target is in the designated area, there is a 50% miss chance on the touch attack. If successful, the groping character deals no damage but has successfully pinpointed the invisible creature’s current location. (If the invisible creature moves, its location, obviously, is once again unknown.) If an invisible creature strikes a character, the character struck still knows the location of the creature that struck him (until, of course, the invisible creature moves). The only exception is if the invisible creature has a reach greater than 5 feet. In this case, the struck character knows the general location of the creature but has not pinpointed the exact location. If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has pinpointed, he attacks normally, but the invisible creature still benefits from full concealment (and thus a 50% miss chance). A particularly large and slow creature might get a smaller miss chance. If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has not pinpointed, have the player choose the space where the character will direct the attack. If the invisible creature is there, conduct the attack normally. If the enemy’s not there, roll the miss chance as if it were there, don’t let the player see the result, and tell him that the character has missed. That way the player doesn’t know whether the attack missed because the enemy’s not there or because you successfully rolled the miss chance. If an invisible character picks up a visible object, the object remains visible. One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour fell off or blew away). An invisible creature can pick up a small visible item and hide it on his person (tucked in a pocket or behind a cloak) and render it effectively invisible. Invisible creatures leave tracks. They can be tracked normally. Footprints in sand, mud, or other soft surfaces can give enemies clues to an invisible creature’s location. An invisible creature in the water displaces water, revealing its location. The invisible creature, however, is still hard to see and benefits from concealment. A creature with the scent ability can detect an invisible creature as it would a visible one. A creature with the Blind-Fight feat has a better chance to hit an invisible creature. Roll the miss chance twice, and he misses only if both rolls indicate a miss. (Alternatively, make one 25% miss chance roll rather than two 50% miss chance rolls.) A creature with blindsight can attack (and otherwise interact with) creatures regardless of invisibility. An invisible burning torch still gives off light, as does an invisible object with a light spell (or similar spell) cast upon it. Ethereal creatures are invisible. Since ethereal creatures are not materially present, Spot checks, Listen checks, Scent, Blind-Fight, and blindsight don’t help locate them. Incorporeal creatures are often invisible. Scent, Blind-Fight, and blindsight don’t help creatures find or attack invisible, incorporeal creatures, but Spot checks and possibly Listen checks can help. Invisible creatures cannot use gaze attacks. Invisibility does not thwart detect spells. Since some creatures can detect or even see invisible creatures, it is helpful to be able to hide even when invisible.
Druid Roxors 03-21-04, 04:44 PM	Shiaan Vs Ilmanur (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2916890#post2916890) posted, I might add some [] tags later, but I do not have the time. Better post early and find out if I have any errors.
Pittbull 03-21-04, 06:46 PM	Does the spell nondetection work against "see invisible"?
Magagumo 03-21-04, 09:13 PM	Whee!! My car exploded on the turnpike while driving back to school (ok, so the engine exploded and the oilpan got holed, but close enough ;). Nevertheless, I made my reflecx saves and my levels in rogue saw me through... *cough* away from that absolute bit of nerdity, I should have Brackin v. Moon-Moon up by tomorrow (and up, I mean actually run as well ;)). I only would like 1 fight this week, as I'm working on a big paper (the one I was working on last week was the short Rough Draft ^-^;;). Anyways, off I go!
sshuit 03-21-04, 10:44 PM	this is a repost from another thread. : In short wizards should not be allowed to gain any spells other than the 2 per level because it requires rolls outside the arena to copy spells to your spellbook. I'm not suggesting this is the way it should be, just pointing out a contradiction in the arena rules and the way its being done. OK. I just read the description of the "copying spells from another's spellbook or scroll" section. I'm going to paraphrase here. you need to 1. Decipher Arcane Magical Writings : Spellcraft DC 20+spell level 2. Study spell : Spellcraft DC15+Spell level. Since our present rule is "No rolls allowed outside the arena" that means that as it stands wizards should not be allowed to have ANY new spells other than the 2 free spells per level. Maybe we should fix that? sshuit
Arstimis 03-21-04, 10:55 PM	Originally posted by sshuit this is a repost from another thread. : In short wizards should not be allowed to gain any spells other than the 2 per level because it requires rolls outside the arena to copy spells to your spellbook. I'm not suggesting this is the way it should be, just pointing out a contradiction in the arena rules and the way its being done. OK. I just read the description of the "copying spells from another's spellbook or scroll" section. I'm going to paraphrase here. you need to 1. Decipher Arcane Magical Writings : Spellcraft DC 20+spell level 2. Study spell : Spellcraft DC15+Spell level. Since our present rule is "No rolls allowed outside the arena" that means that as it stands wizards should not be allowed to have ANY new spells other than the 2 free spells per level. Maybe we should fix that? sshuit Im thinking this rule might not really mean much as people are definately allowed to craft and make items. Those definately take rolls to do. 1. Read magic negates that part i think 2. Just one roll If this is really a rule that is in affect, then i guess that means no more Crafting. No more allies gained by Handle Animal, as that would require you to roll a Handle Animal check outside the Arena. so...i think its safe to assume it isnt a valid rule
Rozman 03-21-04, 11:35 PM	Originally posted by sshuit 1. Decipher Arcane Magical Writings : Spellcraft DC 20+spell level 2. Study spell : Spellcraft DC15+Spell level. 1. Read Magic gets around this 2. I would assume that like Crafting, you need to be able to make the DC by Taking 10 (therefore no actual die-roll.) If you can't make it with a 10, you can't scribe it. This isn't very difficult to stay ahead of, but should definitely be tracked.
Arstimis 03-22-04, 02:23 AM	Elshaya Skyheart vs Kedi of the Silent Blade (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2921591#post2921591) has been posted
xeno_eleusis 03-22-04, 04:57 AM	@Kedi, Dwarven waraxe is a one-handed weapon. If you don't use anything in your offhand, then get a nice big shield, or at least a buckler. Mete “the Kaðan” Han looks cool. I like dwarves.
xeno_eleusis 03-22-04, 04:57 AM	Originally posted by kedi http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=190985&perpage=30&pagenumber=3 Geeez, 20 con, 24 during rage. a new mutant! :P I always did like "New Mutants" better than the "X-men"
Caterane 03-22-04, 06:54 AM	Originally posted by MotherBast: This poll should be null and void. As this has already been ruled apon by WotC, we would be making a house rule to change it. I don't support even voting to change any offical rules. So I took it that you want to abstain. Done. MB, if you give me a clear reference than we continue to talk but your saying "I believe I saw it in a 3.0 source" is surely not very convincing. And since you play a monk druid it doesn`t help to clear my doubts that you might be a bit ...swayed.
MotherBast 03-22-04, 07:16 AM	Cat: On the poll, I actually canceled my abstain vote. It was pointed out to me that I was taking power away from the poll that we had given, and that would be unfair to the people who were using the poll to have there voices heard. Even though I changed my vote on the Elder Discussion thread, I did post on the debate thread that I had, again, changed my mind, and the poll would continue. On the 3.0 issue. I completly understand. I will find the refrence I read before and post it when I do, so you may see that I'm not making it up. And I don't begrudge you in the least for wanting proof. But for the record, I don't "think" that I remember reading it. It was an entire thread at one time about the "monk/druid" in the Min/Max forum. The build, and its rules issues, were added to the FAQ shortly after the thread closed. That was about 3 years ago, though, and the build is no longer in the FAQ. If the thread is still around, I will find it though.
Caterane 03-22-04, 02:10 PM	Question: 1) Which ECL has a creature with no LA mentioned? 2) Can I add classes to such a creature? (Note that the Aboleth is such a creature and has 10 levels of Wizard) 3) What's the price of a permanent resistance spell, CL20?
Tellish_of_Ket 03-22-04, 02:37 PM	Originally posted by Caterane 3) What's the price of a permanent resistance spell, CL20? It's called cloak of resistance. hehe. That's why you can't permanent it upon yourself. -ToK
kedi 03-22-04, 02:45 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=206283 Moderator DMs and Judges Wanted for.... The Mageduel of Larloch and Telamont! :D 3 moderators and 9 judges wanted. [/off:boardsadvertisement]
Caterane 03-22-04, 02:53 PM	@Tok: I mean the permanency spell like with enlarge person, just with resistance this time. Permanent enlarge person is already in use. I just need our price calculation formula. Since I`ll be wearing a cloak of charisma I cannot get a cloak of res.
Ethendril 03-22-04, 02:56 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Question: 1) Which ECL has a creature with no LA mentioned? 2) Can I add classes to such a creature? (Note that the Aboleth is such a creature and has 10 levels of Wizard) 3) What's the price of a permanent resistance spell, CL20? 1. ECL=HD+LA, so the ECL would be the same as the HD. 2. Creatures without a LA, according to the MM (pg. 7), are not usable as PC races or cohorts, so I'm not sure you could add classes. I'm not sure if this is what you were asking... -Ethendril
Tellish_of_Ket 03-22-04, 03:06 PM	spellcasting services for 5th level spell, 9th level caster (permanency) 50*9th=450gp spellcasting services for 0 lvl spell, 20th lvl caster. 5*20=100gp xp cost converted to gold 500*5=2500 450+100+2500=3050gp -ToK
kedi 03-22-04, 03:06 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket @Kedi: I believe the CoCo mutant stats would be based upon their base stat, not augmented. There are a few barbarians out there with 18 con, and raging makes it 22. So i think Cat/Jindl are just going for straight up stats without any assistance other than race/template and stuff like that. "Geeez, 20 con, 24 during rage." thus, base stat is 20, augmented is 24. and xeno: good idea. lemme check if I can....
kedi 03-22-04, 03:18 PM	a few ques: 1)Why is the tournament sticky and locked? 2) why ain't this sticky? 3) when will be the next parings? 4)Gold shiny, me happy ;)
Magagumo 03-22-04, 05:23 PM	Ok, Brackin v. Moon-Moon is up. Critical misses suck, but such things can be gotten past.. if only for a short time. Hopefully this is vague enough to conceal the outcome, glad to be finished the fight :).
kattattack22 03-22-04, 06:18 PM	1) lots of rules discussions and decisions are there. Sentimentallity and historical reasons. 2) The WotC Mods don't want to many stickies and this gets enough posts a day they will always be on the first page. 3) 3/24 should be the next pairings 4) me too
PostalBoy 03-22-04, 07:33 PM	New character "Keeg Ofini - ECL 2" is ready for combat. If you folks will please check for violations.
Caterane 03-22-04, 08:18 PM	@Jindl: PM
SnarkHunter 03-23-04, 12:20 AM	Donkey and Moon-moon both ready for this week... (Just one win that's all I want! :bigeyes: ) Edit: I've also voted in the latest Council poll (not the Red wizard thing...).
xeno_eleusis 03-23-04, 05:25 AM	Jo'Li versus Sendril "Shadow" Knocklebat (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=474) is posed, have a look.
Hatzinger 03-23-04, 06:10 AM	ECL2 - Smergel, Smergel vs Brock Granitehand, Tellish_of_Ket and ECL3 - Laucian Loyalar, Arstimis vs Jaydai, xeno_eleusis are finished. Sorry to post so late. Something came in between this weekend. another question: Let´s say a rider wants to charge an enemy. As far as I can see, he has to make a handle animal check DC10 to get the horse to attack, and if that succeeds, he can make a ride check DC10 to attack himself as a free action. Do I see this right?
MotherBast 03-23-04, 07:17 AM	How do you put pictures in a post? I wanted to add a couple of pictures, for Candy for sure, and maybe one for Brackin and Dra'kel, but I can't figgure out how to make the page display the picture?
Tellish_of_Ket 03-23-04, 07:38 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger another question: Let´s say a rider wants to charge an enemy. As far as I can see, he has to make a handle animal check DC10 to get the horse to attack, and if that succeeds, he can make a ride check DC10 to attack himself as a free action. Do I see this right? I believe you do see this right Hatzinger. -ToK
Rozman 03-23-04, 09:31 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger another question: Let´s say a rider wants to charge an enemy. As far as I can see, he has to make a handle animal check DC10 to get the horse to attack, and if that succeeds, he can make a ride check DC10 to attack himself as a free action. Do I see this right? The Hande Animal & Ride checks are not required if you do not want the horse to fight as well. Simply directing your horse for movement does not require a check. This of course assumes that it is a war horse and does not need to be "controlled in battle" with a DC 20 HA check.
Jindl 03-23-04, 09:53 AM	Re: Poll for Copying Spells The Poll for Copying Spells is closed. The final vote was 12 Yes - 17 No. 7 players and 1 Elder did not vote (though the Elder had already stated his vote to be No on the Elder Forum). For those of you who have purchased spells at 50 gp per level in the past, please begin fixing your wealth. Character wealth must be fixed ASAP, even if it results in a negative balance. Negative balances will be settled after your next Win/Bump. It is not necessary to sell equipment to pay for your extra spells. Spells previously purchased may be removed as long as they have never been used in a fight or used to craft items. These spells may be refunded at full value. These guidelines go into effect immediately. If there are any questions, please direct them to me or to Tellish_of_Ket. @Tellish - Please re-audit all wizards to make sure that they are complying with these guidelines. I think some others have already volunteered to help, so use them.
xeno_eleusis 03-23-04, 10:32 AM	Aemon versus Pard (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=477) is posted. I hope that I didn't get too carried away while role-playing as Pard. I like the guy.
xeno_eleusis 03-23-04, 10:38 AM	I have enjoyed being pitlord for the past couple weeks. I can say that I've learned a lot but I also have been noticing a lot more mistakes by other moderators here. A lot of the mistakes are overlooked or won't matter to the outcome of the fight and so are ignored. I encourage all the pitlords to take the time to run the fights well the first time. With that being said, it's too much for me to moderate two fights a week. I want to set my limit to 1 fight a week and for the upcomming week, Jaydai will sit out. Boafer will fight, and I need a break from moderating. I will be happy to start back the following week as a pitlord.
Ethendril 03-23-04, 10:41 AM	I just read another Hatzinger fight... Would it be wrong to request that he NEVER act as pitlord on one of Kiri's fights?;)
Caterane 03-23-04, 11:15 AM	@Hatzinger: May I join the Anti-Pixie coalition? I`m at round 231
Ethendril 03-23-04, 11:22 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @Hatzinger: May I join the Anti-Pixie coalition? I`m at round 231 I hope you're joking...
Jindl 03-23-04, 11:27 AM	So for Anna's new cohort, I was thinking ... Pixie rogue with Hide + Move Silently maxxed out. What do you guys think? BTW: Despite the fact that Cat is late on Kiri vs Jagath (with pretty good reason, I might add) and xeno was late on Pard vs Aemon ... I will not be giving - credits this week. In the future, Kiri's pitlord will not have any other fights to run (and I won't feel sorry for you if its late). -Jindl
Hatzinger 03-23-04, 11:27 AM	LOL!!!
Ethendril 03-23-04, 11:54 AM	Originally posted by Jindl In the future, Kiri's pitlord will not have any other fights to run (and I won't feel sorry for you if its late). -Jindl A dedicated pitlord! Excellent...I nominate Cat...;) Seriously, if there's a problem with Kiri being too much for the arena, she'll retire. I don't want to be a drain on the arena. This is a place to test builds, and I haven't had the foresight to see exactly how this would turn out. My apologies to Cat this week. Thanks for your hard work.
SnarkHunter 03-23-04, 12:55 PM	Ah well I can't say I'm terribly surprised at how the vote turned out, I suppose I'll do an audit of Bilo fairly soon. This will only involve scribed spells as I'm certain other items are correct. btw. Jindl, now that this is over will the Ironthing poll be posted soon? :angel:
Pitlords 03-23-04, 01:18 PM	The Roster Has Been Updated. We welcome several new characters this week. @Kedi + Druid Roxors - I will set you [OK] when you put "Ready for 3/24/2004" in the Subject line of your character sheet. We also have several characters who have been inactive more than 2 weeks. When I do pairings tomorrow, the following PC's will be moved to the inactive list, unless they are made ready for this week's pairings: 1. Fargus Bloodbound, Bishop the Bardican, ECL 2 2. Nivek Loneshadow, Nivek Loneshadow, ECL 2 3. Hadrigan Hillbuilder, Bishop the Bardican, ECL 3 4. Lance, cellardweller, ECL 4 5. Laness DeVille, Tharkos, ECL 5 6. Archangel Ixidor, Caterane, ECL 6 7. Herrix Ignatius, LLMadCow, ECL 8 8. Babar, Moherajikuyx, ECL 8 9. Rito Maya, Moherajikuyx, ECL 11 The "Fights of the Week 3/17/2004" thread will be closed on Thursday. A new "Fights of the Week" thread will be opened by me tomorrow, after pairings. Please PM me with any questions / special requests for this weeks pairings. -Jindl EDIT: Oh, and the Ironman poll will be up a little later today.
kedi 03-23-04, 01:28 PM	updated the Mete "the Kağan" Han.
Myrridin 03-23-04, 02:44 PM	Zephin is updated and ready for 24/3.
Caterane 03-23-04, 04:18 PM	Kiri vs Jagath (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2936762#post2936762) No spoilers, read on. Seriously, Kiri fights are way more work than any three combined. It`s quite unfair to the pitlord to moderate this one and only get one credit. I don`t want to have an extra credit now but for future I would suggest that such fights count for 2. I invested hours in the fight, spread over several days, and didn´t even write a story!! I would`ve ran the whole low-level roster in that time. Ethendril, I don`t want you to retire Kiri. I think the compensation would be fair enough.
Jindl 03-23-04, 04:26 PM	@Cat - I was thinking the same thing, about the longer fights. Most fights don't go beyond 50 rounds. What I would suggest is that a credit be granted for each 50 rounds that the fight lasts. This would only apply to actual moderated rounds, not to rounds where nothing occurred (like waiting out spell effects, etc.) What do you think? If you like the idea, then do you think 50 is the right number? Maybe we should put it to the Elder Forum for a vote (heh, or I can just institute it this week...) -Jindl
Ethendril 03-23-04, 04:32 PM	@ Cat: Thanks for running the fight.
Caterane 03-23-04, 04:44 PM	@Jindl: The number of rounds is not the only problem. A 20 round Kiri fight is still more complex than a normal 50 round fight. You get dumb over the hours - I thought I would be back in stoneage in the end. Very mindnumbing. A long story should be rewarded too. I wouldn`t make it a stricly formulated rule but base it more on our impression of the work. Tellish's Ebelin vs Iron (many rounds), or any Kiri fight (many rolls), or the Iku Rex vs Jagath fight (long story) are all clearly subject to an extra credit, even though they all have different reasons
Tellish_of_Ket 03-23-04, 04:52 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Jindl: The number of rounds is not the only problem. A 20 round Kiri fight is still more complex than a normal 50 round fight. You get dumb over the hours - I thought I would be back in stoneage in the end. Very mindnumbing. A long story should be rewarded too. I wouldn`t make it a stricly formulated rule but base it more on our impression of the work. Tellish's Ebelin vs Iron (many rounds), or any Kiri fight (many rolls), or the Iku Rex vs Jagath fight (long story) are all clearly subject to an extra credit, even though the rounds are about 20 only. 20 rounds Iron vs Ebelin?!? Heck no. More like 96 rounds, 59 of which were personally moderated and accounted for. That plus a lengthy story. That took a lot of effort. And those 59 rounds weren't waiting for effects either, or boring do-nothing rounds. They were all action packed. -ToK
Hatzinger 03-23-04, 06:20 PM	Lets assume that a fighter uses a horse. His enemy is hidden/concealed. The horse has the scent ability. As it is a heavy warhorse, it doesn´t have the "seek" ability, so lets assume that the rider is also a druid and has a hunting dog with "scent" as an animal companion with him. So, the rider could command the dog to seek out the enemy by using scent. The dog has no other means of communication but to stand next to the enemy and bark. The rider can not use his horse for "scenting" the enemy, although the heavy warhorse has the scent ability, because it is not trained to "seek". If the rider could cast "speak with animals", he could communicate with the horse - albeit it´s INT2 - and thus use it´s scent ability. Now let´s assume that this character is also a wizard who has a familiar (or a paladin who has a special mount), whith which it has an "empathic link" and who also has the "scent" ability. Then he could fully use it´s "scent" ability as if he had it himself. Do i see this right?
Captain Mutilate 03-23-04, 06:28 PM	Hi all. I'm new to the arena.
Magagumo 03-23-04, 06:43 PM	Allo! Welcome to the Arena, friend. I approve of your icon, for the Lake of the Dead shall always hold a warm place in my heart :)
Rozman 03-23-04, 09:10 PM	Ilmanur Norinwen Ready for 3/24 ECL 3
Coyote Skyheart 03-23-04, 09:11 PM	Could someone check/ok 'ready' my lvl 3 character Elshaya Skyheart for the pairings tomorrow? I added a caster level, and I'm not sure I did hitpoints right. Thanks PS: check out Rozman's idea for 5x price limited use items, free restock after fight, in the attracting newcomers thread! its a great idea! I hope it gets adopted.
Battousai2005 03-23-04, 10:14 PM	Akordia Coloara is up. I used 3 credits to make her. See the drow hottie! Then check for errors.
cellardweller 03-23-04, 11:48 PM	Anna ECL 11 - Waits to challenge Kiri... I choose to take that as a compliment :)
xeno_eleusis 03-24-04, 12:07 AM	Originally posted by Captain Mutilate Hi all. I'm new to the arena. Welcome Cap'in, and greetings to Dante Ironfist, it's good to see another Lawful Neutral Human Monk... I mean, not another Lawful Neutral Human Monk... just kidding, he looks cool and slings are far too underused here in the Coliseum.
xeno_eleusis 03-24-04, 12:33 AM	Boafer is ready 24/03/04 Jaydai sits out this week. I want to sit out this week as a Pitlord but will be ready to do it again 31/03/04.
Kaigan 03-24-04, 12:39 AM	@Jindl: Readied Kaigan. Sorry that it took so long. I did not know that i didn't ready him. Hopefully there is still time. Thanks
kattattack22 03-24-04, 02:31 AM	Putting Ony inactive this week to give Ixidor a chance to fight. Will be trying out Worlen, Protector of Bunnies (Barbarian/Druid) ready for pairings tomorrow.
PostalBoy 03-24-04, 11:58 AM	we were all newbies at some point. So, here goes. 1) What time of day (GMT) do parings usually get posted on? 2) What happens with my build on weeks that I have to sit out because of odd players in that ECL? 3) Is there just a general rules discussion post, or to most rules discussions get posted in the weekly fight concerns thread? 4) I see that polls are being used to affect "house rules". Where does one need to post, or two whom do I need to send an email for questions about the "house rules" used at Core Coliseum?
Pitlords 03-24-04, 12:15 PM	Pairings Under Way. No more editing of characters.
barrel_master 03-24-04, 01:36 PM	Originally posted by PostalBoy we were all newbies at some point. So, here goes. 1) What time of day (GMT) do parings usually get posted on? 2) What happens with my build on weeks that I have to sit out because of odd players in that ECL? 3) Is there just a general rules discussion post, or to most rules discussions get posted in the weekly fight concerns thread? 4) I see that polls are being used to affect "house rules". Where does one need to post, or two whom do I need to send an email for questions about the "house rules" used at Core Coliseum? 1. As far as I know there's never been a specific time of day. 2. The player just sits out that week. They are however 'guranteed' a spot for next week if you choose to put him in next week. 3. This is the general rules disscussion post. 4. Read about the rules on the rules sticky or the gladiators sticky. You can ask here.
Pitlords 03-24-04, 02:06 PM	Pairings Done. No more editing of character sheets. Schedule 1. Send tactics to your Pitlord by Friday 2. Pitlords may begin running fights for which they have recieved tactics on Friday 3. Pitlords may begin running fights on default tactics by Saturday 4. Fights are due Monday 5. Late penalties will be assessed on Tuesday Good Luck to all the PC's !! -Jindl
Jindl 03-24-04, 03:09 PM	The IronMan Poll has been created. Please note, this is a general poll to see how much interest there is in doing an IronMan tourney, and what kind of IronMan tourney people are most interested in. Anyone is allowed to vote (whether they have a PC on this board or not) and Snarkhunter will consider the results as he creates the IronMan tourney. Please direct any questions to Snarkhunter. The poll will close on 3/31/04. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 03-24-04, 04:37 PM	@ Jindl: I had deactivated Arcanis Deiito for this week during the morning, before the pairings. It seems you had made the list already. Ill concede, just note that my character's heading says that its on hold, but it will still fight.
Magagumo 03-24-04, 07:29 PM	Hey, I'm afraid I'm still working on big papers this week, so I can only run 1 fight. I've not gotten any tactics yet, but really would like to run Johan vs. Jagath, as I find both of their characters to be incredibly interesting (and would like to learn more about them, by Modding). If someone would be willing to take the Peter vs. Pale-Rider fight, I'd be most appreciative.
SnarkHunter 03-24-04, 08:01 PM	What the heck- I'll take it. I've got two papers due tomorrow, but not much over the weekend. Never know when a credit might come in handy!
Kaigan 03-24-04, 08:04 PM	@Bat: sent tactics for Matei @Market_Share: sent tactics for Enilias
PostalBoy 03-24-04, 08:07 PM	@Druid Roxors: I have submitted tatics and discrepancy corrections to you for Keeg
Magagumo 03-24-04, 08:10 PM	Thx Snark, I'll look favorably upon your PC when the apocalypse comes... :-D
Hatzinger 03-24-04, 08:10 PM	I am away this weekend. (At least, i can check the character sheets thursday.) So don´t wonder where your fight is. It will be coming on monday.
Mustadio[MoF] 03-24-04, 08:14 PM	Sarah's tactics sent!
Battousai2005 03-24-04, 08:28 PM	Tactics Recieved for Worlen and Matei. I should have the fight up soon. Tactics sent for Kage Nightwind. Have fun, Cat! Tactics pending on Akordia while i decide what to do... Sorry Arstimis!
Hatzinger 03-24-04, 08:30 PM	Tactics for Heinrich sent to Battousai. Tactics for Oetzi sent to Caterane.
Jindl 03-24-04, 11:19 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter What the heck- I'll take it. I've got two papers due tomorrow, but not much over the weekend. Never know when a credit might come in handy! Actually, I had that the Pale vs Peter fight originially assigned to you Snark. But then I remembered how Mag was trying to build credits (and you aren't), so I gave it to him. I figured if it was too much, he could give it back to you. I'll make the change, so Snark is now the pitlord for Pale vs Peter. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 03-25-04, 12:34 AM	YOu have a keen insight Jindl. Oh yes.
cellardweller 03-25-04, 01:00 AM	The SRD has a very grey definition of what slots are kept and what are melded during wildshape. In order to have a consistent approach we need a CoCo standard. First proposal: Clawed Bipeds (or near bipeds) (ape, monkey, baboon, deinonychus, megaraptor, tyrannosaurus) hat, goggles, amulet, vest, robe, belt, cloak, bracers, glove, ring, boots Clawed quadrapeds (Bears, Dog, Wolf, Badger, hyena, Cat, Cheetah, leopard, lion, rat, Croc, lizard, Triceratops) hat, goggles, amulet, belt, cloak, bracers, ring Hoofed quadrapeds (Donkey, Horse, Camel, elephant, boar, bison, mule, pony) hat, goggles, amulet, belt, cloak, bracers Winged (Eagle, hawk, owl, bat) hat, goggles Multileged cephlapods (Octopus, squid) hat, goggles, bracers
Pittbull 03-25-04, 06:02 AM	Tactics have been sent to sshuit
Beldin 03-25-04, 06:44 AM	@tellish: tactics have been sent
Hatzinger 03-25-04, 08:50 AM	@Myrridin: tactics for Zephin received via PM.
Caterane 03-25-04, 10:10 AM	Tactics sent for Archangel Ixidor and the Harvester Tactics received for Ötzi and Kage Nightwind. Please send me tactics as soon as possible, especially Ethendril and Rayne.
Ethendril 03-25-04, 10:58 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Tactics sent for Archangel Ixidor and the Harvester Tactics received for Ötzi and Kage Nightwind. Please send me tactics as soon as possible, especially Ethendril and Rayne. Right...I'll get on that this morning.
Jindl 03-25-04, 11:01 AM	Hey- I was justing reading the new 3.5 DMG Errata, and I saw 2 interesting facts: 1. The arrow deflecting property for shields now works automatically (just like the feat). No Reflex save is necessary. (I think Anna should get a +1 arrow deflecting ghost touch buckler...). 2. The polymorph description states explicitly that creatures retain the same Hp's when polymorphing (the Druids on this board have been doing it correctly, AFAIK). So, the debate about the change in Hp's due to the new form's Con, (which has raged a long time on the optimization board) should now be settled. The 3.5 Errata can be found on the WoTC website. -Jindl
barrel_master 03-25-04, 12:05 PM	I have a question regarding pre-purchased equipment. Do spell components, ones with a gp value, have to be placed on a character sheet as prepurchased equpment inorder for a character to use the spell?
Ethendril 03-25-04, 12:18 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Hey- I was justing reading the new 3.5 DMG Errata, and I saw 2 interesting facts: 1. The arrow deflecting property for shields now works automatically (just like the feat). No Reflex save is necessary. (I think Anna should get a +1 arrow deflecting ghost touch buckler...). -Jindl [Ethendril weeps] If only Kiri had known last week! @Cat: I just emailed my tactics for Dusk. Your post sounded like you wanted to run this fight early, so consider these my final tactics if you want to run it today or tomorrow [the two 4th level gladiators have 30 hp combined, so it shouldn't take as long as Kiri:) ]. Thanks for running the fight. -Ethendril
Myrridin 03-25-04, 01:20 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master I have a question regarding pre-purchased equipment. Do spell components, ones with a gp value, have to be placed on a character sheet as prepurchased equpment inorder for a character to use the spell? You mean things like the diamond dust for stoneskin? Yeah, you have to prepurchase those items for the spell.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-25-04, 02:45 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master I have a question regarding pre-purchased equipment. Do spell components, ones with a gp value, have to be placed on a character sheet as prepurchased equpment inorder for a character to use the spell? I concur with Myrridin. Things like that are pretty important all around. But then again, that depends on your pitlord and your opponent. -ToK
SnarkHunter 03-25-04, 03:17 PM	When I was e-mailed about this I said I would be fine with buying the component if the player e-mailed his opponent and notified him of the change.
Myrridin 03-25-04, 04:00 PM	If the player e-mailed their opponent and let them know, I'd say it's ok. But I think players should make sure they have the material components for any spells they want to cast. If they're the really expensive ones, buy them ahead of times. If tactics have already been submitted, I'd allow the player to change their tactics to accomodate the new spells their opponent may cast.
Magagumo 03-25-04, 05:11 PM	All right, quick issue: Johan has a Continent Summon on his prebuffs listed, but according to the "Contingent Conjuration" ability, one must specify the exact conditions and the exact creature one is calling. Their example is: "Summon a Barbed Devil the next time I am attacked." With this is mind, shouldn't Johan need to list the exact requirements for the summon/call, and what he is summoning/calling? I have this knowledge as a Mod, but if the info should have been listed as a pre-buff (the same as, say, we make Ring of Counterspells or Spell Storing list their contents), then I will need to notify Alterlat, so he can be permitted to plan accordingly.
Jindl 03-25-04, 05:39 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo All right, quick issue: Johan has a Continent Summon on his prebuffs listed, but according to the "Contingent Conjuration" ability, one must specify the exact conditions and the exact creature one is calling. Their example is: "Summon a Barbed Devil the next time I am attacked." With this is mind, shouldn't Johan need to list the exact requirements for the summon/call, and what he is summoning/calling? I have this knowledge as a Mod, but if the info should have been listed as a pre-buff (the same as, say, we make Ring of Counterspells or Spell Storing list their contents), then I will need to notify Alterlat, so he can be permitted to plan accordingly. I think the creature to summon should be listed, but not the circumstances. I mean, if you listed Contingency (the spell) as a prebuff you would have to list the contingent spell also, but I don't think you would have to list the circumstances. But that's just me. -Jindl
Rozman 03-25-04, 06:14 PM	Originally posted by Jindl 2. The polymorph description states explicitly that creatures retain the same Hp's when polymorphing (the Druids on this board have been doing it correctly, AFAIK). So, the debate about the change in Hp's due to the new form's Con, (which has raged a long time on the optimization board) should now be settled. Except that they have failed to define what HP they are talking about. HP has 2 meanings: a) (the total from the rolled dice as you advance levels) b) (the total from the rolled dice as you advance levels) + (your level x Con modifier) The 2 terms are used interchangably in the PHB; hence the discussion. Not that I think the debate needs to be raging here; just pointing out why the debate existed in the first place (and will probably continue to rage on.)
Magagumo 03-25-04, 07:32 PM	*nods* It would eb good to get a few more voices on the idea, so I know exactly what Alterlat shoould know, and so poor cellardweller knows what to list on his character sheet from now on.. I do like the idea of keeping the circumstance concealed, as it gives the caster a modicum of secrecy :)
sshuit 03-25-04, 07:41 PM	Ixidor vs Angosh is up. Enjoy!
Tellish_of_Ket 03-25-04, 09:22 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo *nods* It would eb good to get a few more voices on the idea, so I know exactly what Alterlat shoould know, and so poor cellardweller knows what to list on his character sheet from now on.. I do like the idea of keeping the circumstance concealed, as it gives the caster a modicum of secrecy :) The summon contingent must be known, the trigger does not. That's my opinion as well. -ToK *EDIT* All tactics recieved, will begin running fights tomorrow
cellardweller 03-25-04, 09:40 PM	Fine by me. Johan will be summoning a Bralani under some mysterious condition
Arstimis 03-25-04, 10:07 PM	Tactics for Laucian have been sent to Hatzinger.....again
xeno_eleusis 03-25-04, 10:40 PM	Tactics sent to Myrridin for Boafer Stonewill.
Rozman 03-26-04, 12:34 AM	Tactics for Ilmanur vs. Heinrich sent in via email to Battousai2005
Caterane 03-26-04, 02:55 AM	@Sshuit: Wow. That was a very nice story. I loved it. As for the moral of the tale: you know, I build the character concept around allies so it should be ok that the ally is a bit better. Just look at my equipment: circlet of persuasion, cloak of charisma, tools for handle animal, that`s about 10.000 gold out of 13000 max, just for an ally and many of my points are put in cha too. But again, great story! I saved it at once under favorites.
^Rayne^ 03-26-04, 03:28 AM	Caterane, Vryk's tactics have been sent to you via PM. I look forward to your description of Vryk being burnt alive by the half-dragon of doom, Dusk! :) Rayne
Caterane 03-26-04, 03:33 AM	@Rayne & Mustadio: Please, always send me tactics per mail. Too often I get the message that I cannot receive additional PMs because I have too many stickies in it, like tactics for example. Mustacio, I know you have mail problems so this is ok. However, if you fix them anytime soon you can then send them per mail. Thanks a lot Cat
cellardweller 03-26-04, 03:43 AM	Completely unrelated to anything, but it occurs to me that I have never shared this. There is a veritable hoarde of people working on character portraits for Neverwinter Nights. An image for just about any character can be found at The neverwinter vault (http://nwvault.ign.com/Files/portraits/categories/)
Caterane 03-26-04, 04:33 AM	Hey, since we decided that every creature has natural weapons can I get the multiattack feat for headbutt, 2xknee, 2xellbow, 2xfist, 2xleg, and 1 a$$whoop? And Ixidor`s natural weapons are considered magic so ...uhm his entire body is magic, right? Yes, and I have a level of monk. BTW, what was the reason why INA is available for monks? (a) because all creatures have natural weapons and every entry in the MM about "gains natural weapons" is just a joke? (Motherbast`s theory) (b) because a feat is a spell or an effect and is suppressed within an Antimagic field? (Arti's approach) I need to know this because I will build a character on this concept.
Market_Share 03-26-04, 06:36 AM	@Snark/Barrel: lHey guys, I sent both of you an e-mail yesterday. Any chance you can reply? I'm still waiting before i send out tactics. thanks in advance. SPIKE
Market_Share 03-26-04, 06:38 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Hey, since we decided that every creature has natural weapons can I get the multiattack feat for headbutt, 2xknee, 2xellbow, 2xfist, 2xleg, and 1 a$$whoop? And Ixidor`s natural weapons are considered magic so ...uhm his entire body is magic, right? Yes, and I have a level of monk. BTW, what was the reason why INA is available for monks? (a) because all creatures have natural weapons and every entry in the MM about "gains natural weapons" is just a joke? (Motherbast`s theory) (b) because a feat is a spell or an effect and is suppressed within an Antimagic field? (Arti's approach) I need to know this because I will build a character on this concept. I believe it was B. Dunno, didn't really follow it much because it was stupid and retarded. I've seen crack-heads on the street blocks in montreal's red light district make more sense, but hey, maybe i just need to take more crack. SPIKE
MotherBast 03-26-04, 07:13 AM	Cat: Actually, the reason was neither of those. It is that an "unarmed strike" is concidered a natural attack. As for its effect not working in an anti-magic field, remember that anti-magic fields will not supress non-magical effects. As for multi-attack, you only have one "unarmed strike", because your entire body is concidered a single weapon for unarmed strike, so no multiattack I'm afraid.
Myrridin 03-26-04, 08:41 AM	Since I screwed up with Spider Climb last fight, a question. Can someone cast a somatic component scroll while spider climbing? I'm guessing yes, as they can pin the scroll to the wall with the hand holding on, and gesture with the other hand. Also, can the Augment Summoning Feat be used with a summon from a scroll?
Jindl 03-26-04, 10:40 AM	@Myrridin - 1. Yes, in the manner you described. 2. No. There was a very long discussion about this in old times, and we are not re-opening it. The answer is no. -Jindl
Myrridin 03-26-04, 11:19 AM	Jindl: 1. Thanks, that's how I ran it. 2. Excellent, again, how I ran it. One last question. Spider climbed to a pillar, so has to use one hand to stay there, using the other for casting...can you still Deflect Arrows? I'm thinking not, as you're busy doing something, but I could be wrong.
Ethendril 03-26-04, 11:29 AM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ I look forward to your description of Vryk being burnt alive by the half-dragon of doom, Dusk! :) Rayne @Rayne: What a coincidence! That's also what I'm looking forward to!:D
Jindl 03-26-04, 12:09 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Jindl: One last question. Spider climbed to a pillar, so has to use one hand to stay there, using the other for casting...can you still Deflect Arrows? I'm thinking not, as you're busy doing something, but I could be wrong. As long as the hand is empty when the arrow was fired, then yes, deflect arrows could be used. It could not be used if the hand was completing somatic components for a full-round summoning spell, because the hand isn't "empty". -Jindl
Myrridin 03-26-04, 02:06 PM	Boafer vs Elshaya (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2965223#post2965223) The fight is up. As usual, let me know what went wrong.
Caterane 03-26-04, 03:36 PM	@all: New poll results! [Ma]Tools are now available for Ride! And we have to discuss the Red Wizard Prestige Class which is currently forbidden though I don`t know why. Any insights?
Myrridin 03-26-04, 04:16 PM	It's not in the SRD? I like the class though, it's fun, and does require enhanced specialization.
Ethendril 03-26-04, 04:20 PM	Where's Mo? He gave us a nice ride with the new arena, but isn't here to enjoy it...
kattattack22 03-26-04, 05:04 PM	I thought Red Wizards were disallowed becuase one on the prereq. for Red Wizards isn't core. At least, I haven't seen tatoo focus anywhere.
Druid Roxors 03-26-04, 05:04 PM	Tactics for Keeg and Dante recieved. Tactics for Arcanis Deiito Sent. Ill run the fight tomorrow. Sorry for the late reply, this was a crazy week.
MotherBast 03-26-04, 05:30 PM	Elders: I posted all my thoughts on the Red Wizard on the Elder discussion thread. I know Cat for one was intrested. While were all looking in that thread, why don't we settel a few old debates as well, like the "allies" debate for one.
Druid Roxors 03-26-04, 06:06 PM	Tactics Re-sent to Hatzinger, for some reason his E-mail didnt work, I sent it by PM
Coyote Skyheart 03-26-04, 06:15 PM	*edit* moved to proper thread. Sorry. ;)
Battousai2005 03-26-04, 08:31 PM	Dang, sorry, Rozman. I lost your tactics. Could you resubmit them. Again, sorry. My computer cut out when i was reading them and for some reason, it didn't save. Hey, Bishop. I dont thing youve sent tactics for Hadrigan. If its not in, im gonna have to improvise. I suck at that, so you may want to get those in.
Rozman 03-27-04, 12:23 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Dang, sorry, Rozman. I lost your tactics. Could you resubmit them. Tactics resent. And I blame it all on AOL. :p
SnarkHunter 03-27-04, 12:24 AM	New Feat-Tattoo focus is listed the page after Red Wizard. I personally don't see a problem allowing the class and feat. I've got tactics from my fighters and Donkey's has been sent. I'll try to run my fight sometime tomorrow.
Caterane 03-27-04, 02:23 AM	I still have no tactics received for Ilene McPherson. I`ll wait another few hours but then I have to begin running the fight. It would REALLY be a pity if she doesn`t send them. I have a cool story for her (not involving Donkey :P )
Caterane 03-27-04, 03:24 AM	Originally posted by Caterane BTW, what was the reason why INA is available for monks? (a) because all creatures have natural weapons and every entry in the MM about "gains natural weapons" is just a joke? (Motherbast`s theory) (b) because a feat is a spell or an effect and is suppressed within an Antimagic field? (Arti's approach) Originally posted by Motherbast Cat: Actually, the reason was neither of those. It is that an "unarmed strike" is concidered a natural attack. No no no, unarmed strike is considered a natural weapon for spells and effects only, so a feat (like INA) has to be a spell or effect! Abracadabra...I cast powerattack!
Arstimis 03-27-04, 04:19 AM	Originally posted by Caterane No no no, unarmed strike is considered a natural weapon for spells and effects only, so a feat (like INA) has to be a spell or effect! Abracadabra...I cast powerattack! As i have said many times, since it is not a spell, it is an effect. The term effect isnt ever defined, so conclusions had to be drawn using examples.......but this debate is over, why is it still being brought up
Caterane 03-27-04, 04:22 AM	Ah right, 'effect' is not defined so a feat is an effect. Got that. So from now on all feats are effects. Right? And Ixidor has unarmed strike and a half-celestials natural weapons are considered magic. So Ixidor's unarmed strike is considered magic, right? PS: It is not brought up again. I just want to know what the final reason behind the allowing was. 17 members voted 'yes' so they had to have a good reason to do so, something else than "I like monks"
Arstimis 03-27-04, 04:29 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Ah right, 'effect' is not defined so a feat is an effect. Got that. So from now on all feats are effects. Correct.....i think. i have been wrong before....maybe [b]And Ixidor has unarmed strike and a half-celestials natural weapons are considered magic. So Ixidor's unarmed strike is considered magic, right? I would agree with this statement. Others might disagree...but i see no problem with it. PS: It is not brought up again. I just want to know what the final reason behind the allowing was. 17 members voted 'yes' so they had to have a good reason to do so, something else than "I like monks" Just as good of a reason people had for saying 'no' , but a little better, because it won :D
Caterane 03-27-04, 04:40 AM	Arti, sorry but I won`t let it go that easy. THE MAJORITY decided in an extended poll that INA is a valid feat and there has to be a reason behind this! Correct.....i think. i have been wrong before....maybe What? Maybe? I think? This was the very base of your argumentation. You`re not withdrawing now! You can`t get the cake without paying. Because of the poll feats are EFFECTS now! I would agree with this statement. Others might disagree...but i see no problem with it. Same here: now that the poll is over you shrug your shoulders. Motherbast just said that some posts above. So a monk`s unarmed strike is a natural weapon from now on! I just want to have this confirmed. If you now withdraw we just open the discussion anew. No reason, no feat.
Arstimis 03-27-04, 04:52 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Arti, sorry but I won`t let it go that easy. THE MAJORITY decided in an extended poll that INA is a valid feat and there has to be a reason behind this! What? Maybe? I think? This was the very base of your argumentation. You`re not withdrawing now! You can`t get the cake without paying. Because of the poll feats are EFFECTS now! I think i may have worded what i said a bit incorrectly. The maybe/i think was being a little sarcarstic. But i really dont know what everyond decided as to the reason was. That was one of my points to the debate. That might have been accepted as the reasoning as to why other people said yes, i dont know why other people chose yes or no. You should ask other people that. Same here: now that the poll is over you shrug your shoulders. Motherbast just said that some posts above. So a monk`s unarmed strike is a natural weapon from now on! I just want to have this confirmed. If you now withdraw we just open the discussion anew. No reason, no feat. I agree 100%, a monks unarmed strike is a natural weapon from now one for spells and effects. I would consider the Half-Celestial 'natural weapons are magic for dr' to be considered an effect, and there for a monks fist would be considered a natural weapon for those purposes. Going to bed now...i will be back in about 8 hours
MotherBast 03-27-04, 06:50 AM	Personaly, I never bought into the "feats are effects" argument. The reason I voted yes is because 3 different places in the PHB refer to an unarmed strike as a natural weapon. To me, that suggests that any unarmed strike can benifit from the INA feat. As far as Ixi's unarmed stike being concidered magic, since the PHB does say an unarmed stike is a natural weapon, and the MM does say the a creatures natural weapon overcome the same type of Damage Reduction that the creature has, since Ixi has DR/magic, his unarmed strikes would overcome DR/magic.
MotherBast 03-27-04, 08:51 AM	Voliana vs. Aku posted. I took the time to write up a pretty good story for this one. I hope both parties like it. I have been reading the sword of truth series, by Goodkind, lately, so my writing might be slightly influenced by his style at the moment. It will probably resemble that more than the Cartoon on which Aku is based. still, I think its a good story, enjoy.
Rosella 03-27-04, 02:05 PM	@Cat; I sent my tactics this morning by PM, since I was in a real hurry. They're not as thorough as usually but I assume your post was from before that time. If not, something went wrong there, but I replied directly to your PM, twice! :cool:
TaggIIV 03-27-04, 08:39 PM	Hello everyone. I thought this looked like the closest thing to an off-topic thread, so I'm just here to say.. I'm here. edit: i'm back after reading some of the rules threads and i ask: is the CoCo exactly what it sounds like? senseless pvp violence? if so, i say "yep. senseless pvp violence is what the COCO is." oh, not to mention i think senseless pvp violence is cool ;) anyways a question.. what level should starters' PCs be?
cellardweller 03-27-04, 10:21 PM	Originally posted by TaggIIV Hello everyone. I thought this looked like the closest thing to an off-topic thread, so I'm just here to say.. I'm here. edit: i'm back after reading some of the rules threads and i ask: is the CoCo exactly what it sounds like? senseless pvp violence? if so, i say "yep. senseless pvp violence is what the COCO is." oh, not to mention i think senseless pvp violence is cool ;) anyways a question.. what level should starters' PCs be? Gratuitous PC on PC action is the aim of the day. All characters have to start at ECL2. You can use credits to purchase higher level characters, but these must be have the minimum ECL for your race. @Cat/Jindl - Lance is being bumped.
TaggIIV 03-27-04, 10:59 PM	Originally posted by cellardweller Gratuitous PC on PC action is the aim of the day. All characters have to start at ECL2. You can use credits to purchase higher level characters, but these must be have the minimum ECL for your race. @Cat/Jindl - Lance is being bumped. Aight. my gnoll barbarian is up ;) i think it was safe to post it up without prior consent of GMly people >_>
cellardweller 03-27-04, 11:04 PM	Originally posted by TaggIIV Aight. my gnoll barbarian is up ;) i think it was safe to post it up without prior consent of GMly people >_> A gnoll is ECL3 (2HD+1LA) meaning that to bring one in would take 3 credits ((ECL-2)*3). Might I suggest taking one of the standard phb races to begin with?
TaggIIV 03-27-04, 11:53 PM	erm, what exactly is a credit?
kedi 03-28-04, 01:09 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Tactics Re-sent to Hatzinger, for some reason his E-mail didnt work, I sent it by PM Exactly, tried to mail him 3 times, failed at each. Sent my tactics by PM. (both of them) @tagg: If a pitlord moderates more mathches then his active pcs, he gets a + credit. when you have 3 credits, you can use them in order to create a ECL 3 character. if you have 6 creadits, you can create a ECL 4 character. 9 ECL 5 and so on.
Market_Share 03-28-04, 02:45 AM	Done. Not my best work, but then again, i didn't have much to work with. SPIKE
Caterane 03-28-04, 02:54 AM	@Rosi: Yup tactics received. All three fights finished. I`m writing the story now. @TaggIV: Hi Tagg! We`re always glad to see new 'recruits' to shed blood and violence in the CoCo because that`s exactly what we`re doing here, well some of us shed more blood than others, right Hatze? You might want to read the FAQ first which should answer many of your questions. If there are any left feel free to ask here in the Tavern or PM me. To summarize it in a few words: you post a character using the standard sheet (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2700324#post2700324) on the gladiators thread. You get 1000 gp starting gold and can play a level 2 (or ECL 2) character. Credits are for Pitlords (fight moderators) only. Perhaps you might want to moderate on your own someday but for the moment it would be better to watch and play with your character. Cat Edit: colortest colortest
Caterane 03-28-04, 06:23 AM	Here`s the link. Enjoy. The Prophesy of Dread, Part 2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2977993#post2977993) Cat
TaggIIV 03-28-04, 06:53 AM	Ah, ok. I was thinking along the lines of negative levels (like an ECL 3 char would need to win 3 battles before he can advance in level normally) before. Anyhoo I'll go think of another race.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-28-04, 06:59 AM	Wow Cat, what a story. All hail the arena Bard. :bow: -ToK
Caterane 03-28-04, 07:01 AM	Thanks Tellish. One thing, the link I posted above only led to the second half of the story. Perhaps you clicked it before I didn`t fix it and missed the beginning of the story. Don`t know. It`s fixed now.
TaggIIV 03-28-04, 07:46 AM	Aight, edited my char post to a legal one. i just revamped the entire character and made him a TWF hobgoblin fighter ^.^
Tellish_of_Ket 03-28-04, 07:52 AM	I didn't use the link. I read the whole thing. Awesome. Just one question though about your tactics against Grym. He cannot dispel spell immunity Why do you say spell immunity cannot be dispelled? It can. Or were you just saying that Grym has no means to dispell it? -ToK
Caterane 03-28-04, 07:59 AM	@Tok: He neither had a scroll nor had the spell scribed in his book. Of course Spell immunity is dispellable.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-28-04, 08:39 AM	oops, ignore this page. -ToK (was just testing stuff)
kedi 03-28-04, 09:10 AM	goin...nuts...waiting for smergal's tactics....must kill....kill....
Jindl 03-28-04, 09:23 AM	Originally posted by MotherBast Voliana vs. Aku posted. I took the time to write up a pretty good story for this one. I hope both parties like it. I have been reading the sword of truth series, by Goodkind, lately, so my writing might be slightly influenced by his style at the moment. It will probably resemble that more than the Cartoon on which Aku is based. still, I think its a good story, enjoy. I liked the story in Aku vs Voliana. I also would give a good review of the Sword of Truth series, though I have only read the first 3 books. -Jindl
MotherBast 03-28-04, 09:44 AM	Market: Dude, I sent tactics to you Thursday. You should have had my tactics looooonnnnnggggg before you ran that fight. I never had any reason to belive you didn't have them, because you never e-mailed me to ask for them, nor did you ever post anything here saying you still needed them. I am not happy you just killed my fighter without even making an effort to contact me. If you had, you would have known that my tactics were already sent. I don't know why you don't have them. Even if I haden't sent them though, you should have at least posted "hey, I still need Dra'kel's tacts" on this thread. Perhaps I had only forgotten? It is simply unfair for Dra'kel to have lost automaticly when he did have tactics. Espically since you made absolutly no effort to find out why you didn't have tactics yet. I am not happy about that situation at all.
Jindl 03-28-04, 09:59 AM	Re: Dra'kel vs Enialis The unspoken guideline is that a pitlord should post that tactics are missing or should respond to the player if something in the tactics is against the rules. As I am sure all three involved would like a fight to actually be run (I doubt Kaigan wants to win this way, and I know Market would rather have run an actual fight), I'll be postponing the fight until new tactics are received. Both MotherBast and Kaigan need to revise tactics and resend them to Market_Share. When Market has both sets of revised tactics, he may run the fight and post it. If this happens before pairings, then both pc's will be included in the next round. If not, well, you should have gotten your revised tactics to Market more quickly. Start working on your revised tactics. -Jindl
kedi 03-28-04, 10:04 AM	TaggIIV: :twitch: on your char...
Jindl 03-28-04, 10:26 AM	@TaggIIV - Your character has some mistakes. Please see my post on the "Character Violations" thread. Thanks. @Snark + JonahBlack - Your fight will be posted this afternoon ... -Jindl
TaggIIV 03-28-04, 10:36 AM	saw the post. and actually, i see how impractical that sword is >_> i'm going to revamp again and make a dwarven fighter using a dwarven waraxe... still determining whetehr i would want to work towards dwarven defender, but.. i have time to contemplate that.
MotherBast 03-28-04, 10:47 AM	Jindl: I appreciate your effort, but I don't want to bother with remaking tactics. Dra'kel was retiring after this fight win/loose/ or draw. His concept was killed when the poll about wild armor was concluded. Now, at best, he would be a Jindl clone. I'm gona scrap him and try something different. Kaigan can keep the win. Just to make sure, you do have tactics for Candy, right Tellish?
Tellish_of_Ket 03-28-04, 11:10 AM	Yes, i'm running the fight right now. I'll call Mike and tell him you've got tactics on the way. I'm sure he'll redo it. -ToK *EDIT* here's a teaser Zorander vs Candy (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=candy_zorander#9 7456) That's the name i'm using for the online roller. Follow that link to see how lopsided this fight is if you can't stand the suspense. But it looks like it might take an interesting twist right about now. Either way, i'm in for a long fight now. :( -ToK
Market_Share 03-28-04, 11:31 AM	Phone coversation went something like this. "Hey meathead, you awake or what?" "Yeah, why?" "Did you get bongman's tactics?" "Nope" "Why didn't you ask for them?" "Dunno, said he was quitting and didn't care. I just assumed he wasn't going to send any." "Oh...ok. Go post and tell him you'll redo it if he sends tactics." "Ya sure." So there's the long and short of it MB. Send me tactics and i'll give ye an honorable death. LOL. Seriously though, i didn't think you were even going to send any. I don't check the boards as often as ya'll and when i do log on, there's like 2 or 3 pages of old messages. Hard to read it all quickly. Lots of it is bickering anyhow, so i just hit the fast-scroll button. Mostly i just look for my name and stuff. Send them when you get a chance. Since i didn't post Kaigan's tactics and i still got a copy of them i'll use those. SPIKE
Jindl 03-28-04, 11:37 AM	Originally posted by MotherBast Jindl: I appreciate your effort, but I don't want to bother with remaking tactics. Dra'kel was retiring after this fight win/loose/ or draw. His concept was killed when the poll about wild armor was concluded. Now, at best, he would be a Jindl clone. I'm gona scrap him and try something different. Kaigan can keep the win. You may want to rethink that. Cat was a little premature on the poll. It has not ended yet, nor has the issue been decided. The vote stands at 4-2 with Snark abstaining. Mo hasn't voted yet, and it takes 5 votes to win. I also have some stuff to post on the Unarmored Wildshape issue, stuff which will probably settle the whole thing, but first, I must run Donkey vs Grimlock... -Jindl
Magagumo 03-28-04, 01:26 PM	Read up to the 8th Book of the Sword of Truth series... wonderful set, I highly recommend it for everyone :) Starting Johan vs. Jagath.. left lousy dice in my bag at sig other's, so I didn't manage to do it till today :fight!: WahoO!! 1 hour fight! (My time.. it only is 3 rounds total) What happens when a hunter is crazy enough to attack a cleric before he's fully buffed? Read the fight to find out!
kedi 03-28-04, 03:47 PM	posted a fight.. Need a beer...
Ethendril 03-28-04, 03:51 PM	Uh...Cat... :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :mymy: You rock. What an epic story!
Kaigan 03-28-04, 09:45 PM	Posted Kedi vs. Medias Sorry about the story but i had no time. If there are any mistakes please post in the comments thanks
Kaigan 03-28-04, 10:01 PM	One quick question: Say you have a masterwork mighty comp. longbow (2 str), can you have it enchanted by just adding the price of the enchantment to the original bow, like 600gp for the bow +4000 for a +2 enchantment, or should i just sell that bow and buy another?
Battousai2005 03-28-04, 11:01 PM	@Cat: Amazing. Simply amazing. There is no compare. @Everyone: Problem: What happens when one gladiator sends no tactics in a match? The only example I have was Arty (Mustiado's old char) vs Angosh (you know, the ugly one) and Im not sure exactly what to do. Help? EDIT: Hatzinger, where the heck are your tactics for Hadrigan? I've fought him before, so I can guess tactics, but honestly, I don't like doing that. Especially for casters.
Limit 03-28-04, 11:41 PM	Hello Everyone, I just wanted to take a moment to introduce myself. That being said, I'm Limit and I just posted The Voiceless (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2984996#post2984996) I'm new here and a bit timid about posting a build, because I'm paranoid that I'm going to break some rule that I missed while reading the stickied threads. I'll wait until my character is checked for violations before marking him as ready, thanks!
Tellish_of_Ket 03-29-04, 03:10 AM	Candy vs Zorander is up. 21 rounds worth. Fairly exciting to run actually. Hope i didn't miss anything critical. "In the Jungle, the quiet jungle, the lion SLEEPS tonigth. OOoh eeeeeeeee. oOOH eehehe. A wimba-way." "...until it sleeps..until it sleeps." - metallica "Hush little baby, don't say a word, and never mind that noise you heard. It's just an umbra, he keeps me awake, I hope you choke on your sour grapes..." The link for the rolls: Candy vs Zorander (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=candy_zorander#9 7599)
Myrridin 03-29-04, 09:28 AM	This is more for my knowledge. The swarm in the Boafer/Elshaya fight could never catch up to Boafer if he ran each round. It have 20' movement, and he had 30'. Now that means that it couldn't damage him, and he has no way of killing it. How would the Arena react to that? It seems to me that both sides are delaying in that Elshaya would figure out pretty fast that it wouldn't work, and Boafer can't do anything but run to stay alive. Having him sit there and get eaten by the swarm doesn't make any sense either.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-29-04, 09:41 AM	Then it would be no problem for you to lead the swarm to one end of the arena, and RUN back to elshaya. No need to infinetly delay. -ToK
Myrridin 03-29-04, 09:43 AM	Exactly. Except that since Elshaya is also a monk, and has deflect arrow, Boafer can't hurt him. It looks like a stalemate to me. Grease doesn't have quite enough range to get to Elshaya, and the one shot a round Boafer gets will be automatically deflected by the monk.
Magagumo 03-29-04, 11:03 AM	One note- @Jindl I don't think its legit to have 12 alchemist fire's already prepared to throw, Jindl. After all, we don't let anyone else have all their fire's pre-prepared, so why should Anna be allowed? I'm sure her Telekinesis will let her prepare the flask, but its still going to be the 1d4 round wait, after that, to throw it. No changing the rules here...
Jindl 03-29-04, 11:45 AM	@Mag - Actually, the rule was made that you can prepare the alchie fires as a prebuff. I think it happened about 6 weeks ago, when Aiki Auk first started using them. Since preparing them is a prebuff, then Anna can prepare as many as she wants. @Cat - Hey, sent you some PM's. Did you get them? -Jindl
Caterane 03-29-04, 11:49 AM	@Jindl: My gaming group came over on sunday and I just came home from a long day. K, Jindl, you have the bridge. I sent you a PM already.
Myrridin 03-29-04, 03:24 PM	Just a note, but I would like to sit out being a Pitlord for a couple weeks. I'm busy writing for my MA, and need to not have the added pressure of modding a fight. I'll be good to go again in May. Thanks.
Jindl 03-29-04, 04:03 PM	@Myrridin - Okay. Good luck on that. Let me know when to reactivate you as a Pitlord. @Snark + JonahBlack - Between my general laziness over the weekend, and the board being down today, I'll have your fight up later tonight :D @Everyone Else - With the board down today, the rosterkeeping has fallen a little behind. The Roster will be updated tonight, please check it in the morning to make sure everything looks right. Also - I am going to list a few errors I saw in some of the fights on the Fights of the Week thread. Most of these things wouldnt change the outcome of the fight, but they are still mistakes, and I would like our pitlords to learn from them. Most of the mistakes occurred in low level fights run by the newer guys, and they are mostly the same mistakes that us "oldtimers" made when we first started running fights. Please check the Fights of the Week thread in the morning for that. @LLMadCow, barrel_master, Mercy, ^Rayne^, Ethendril - Can I reactivate any of you guys to run fights? Some of the others are getting too many fights, etc. What do you guys say? -Jindl
Captain Mutilate 03-29-04, 04:04 PM	I'm offering myself to run a fight, or two.
Druid Roxors 03-29-04, 05:37 PM	Im sorry I have not uploaded my fight yet, I had trouble with the boards and a thunderstorm brought down a few electicity towers in my city. Im going to start now, Ill be done in a few hours. Sorry about the wait. (if you dont believe me, check out Weather for Monterrey Mexico (http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/76393.html)
sshuit 03-29-04, 05:38 PM	@motherbast : Great fight! I really enjoyed the story. @ll : I'm going to put both Voilana and Roger on hold for a while and just run Medius for a while. Kinda need a break from all the high-level shenanigans. I'm free to run 1 fight or 2 if REALLY needed. (preferably low level if 2) sshuit
Druid Roxors 03-29-04, 06:14 PM	Nevermind, a correction was sent.
SnarkHunter 03-29-04, 06:35 PM	Hey all, been busy, fight should be up late tonight/tomorrow, sorry for delay!
Arstimis 03-29-04, 07:05 PM	Brock vs Akordia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2990228#post2990228) has also been posted Edit: @Hatzinger: - Arstimis/Laucian, your tactics were quite strict and inflexibly build towards one condition that never came. But as you reminded me to stick to tactics no matter what, I followed them. Hehe, ya i kinda forgot Enlarge Person was a touch spell. Oh well...i got lucky..good horse and i also forgot run had to be a straight line
Hatzinger 03-29-04, 07:25 PM	ECL 2 - Mete the Kaðan Han, Kedi vs Arcanis Deiito, Druid Roxors and ECL 4 - Zephin Telloran, Myrridin vs Laucian Loyalar, Arstimis are posted. No flavor text this time.
Druid Roxors 03-29-04, 07:43 PM	Keeg Vs Dante Posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2990356#post2990356) Too busy to add Flavour text, Next time, I Promise!
xeno_eleusis 03-29-04, 08:56 PM	I got two programs due this week and a test tomorrow. I've been really slack here on CoCo and I think I have to sit out again this week, both characters. What is the penalty for a ECL3 sitting out two weeks in a row?
Magagumo 03-29-04, 09:39 PM	@Jindl Alright, must have missed that one :). Would love to hear the reasoning (so my players don't start claiming all their fires are prepped), so perhaps you could link me to that through a PM sometime?
Battousai2005 03-29-04, 09:43 PM	Heinrich vs. Ilmanur turned out to be a forefit. Hatzinger never submitted his tactics to me and I really don't wish to improvise a caster build.
Mercy 03-29-04, 10:02 PM	Originally posted by Jindl [B@LLMadCow, barrel_master, Mercy, ^Rayne^, Ethendril - Can I reactivate any of you guys to run fights? Some of the others are getting too many fights, etc. What do you guys say? -Jindl [/B] I can take one fight this week, but won't be able to next week. After that I should be good to go with 1 fight a week. But if somebody is wanting to build up credits you don't have to use me as a Pitlord.
Jindl 03-29-04, 10:33 PM	@Mercy - Thanks! @Snarkhunter - I just sent you an URGENT PM regarding Donkey's tactics. Please respond. Nevrmind, I out-smarted the computer. Heeyaaah. {sigh} -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 03-29-04, 11:22 PM	@alchemist fire pre-buff: I guess i'm not the only one who missed that conversation. Not sure who it was with, but i know i never read anything about it until Anna started with it. Silencius was fond of alchemist fires and i never pre-buffed them. I'm afraid that would be a little over the top. Just my opinion, shared by at least one other i read, but i'd say no to pre-buffing alchy fires. I think that's just starting to get a little over the top. -ToK
Market_Share 03-29-04, 11:46 PM	Hey Snark, I've sent you several e-mails and you haven't replied. Including tactics. Everything OK? SPIKE
Coyote Skyheart 03-30-04, 12:01 AM	So, what are we doing about the Elshaya/Boafer fight run by Myrridin? Is it a draw and we're both still 3rd lvl? or what?
SnarkHunter 03-30-04, 01:31 AM	Your tactics were great Market! Very detailed. I've been pressed for time lately but I should tell you I was impressed with the time you put into them. Of course no strategy survives contact with the enemy. ... Read about it here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2993904#post2993904).
Jindl 03-30-04, 01:48 AM	Donkey vs Grimlock posted. Short and brutal. -Jindl
cellardweller 03-30-04, 06:40 AM	The pitlord dropout continues... A nefarious fiend had absconded with my laptop, until my insurance can replace it I won't be able to lord over any pitfights.
Myrridin 03-30-04, 08:26 AM	Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart So, what are we doing about the Elshaya/Boafer fight run by Myrridin? Is it a draw and we're both still 3rd lvl? or what? Ok, so I was initially in a bad mood. I'm rerunning the fight. The swarm was dispersed after 10 rounds by the Arena owners, as it was obvious that it wasn't going to be able to harm Boafer, and Boafer wasn't going to be able to harm Elshaya. They have profits to think of. I'm using the rule that there are 10 rounds to do something in a Plane Shift, and that intentionally delaying isn't a viable tactic.
barrel_master 03-30-04, 11:49 AM	Originally posted by Jindl @LLMadCow, barrel_master, Mercy, ^Rayne^, Ethendril - Can I reactivate any of you guys to run fights? Some of the others are getting too many fights, etc. What do you guys say? -Jindl Unfortunately, I still can't mod fights properly/correctly as I still have like no time. As such I'll remove all my characters from active status this week. None of my guys will be fighting as it seems that some mods are getting way too many fights. Also, I have a question about polymorph, have we ruled that it retains the alter self restriction of 'you can only polymorph into creatures 1 size larger or smaller then you'? This is important as I don't see how many characters could ever survive a remorhaz without dispel magic.
Caterane 03-30-04, 11:55 AM	Perhaps it`s a bad time to mention this but I am not at home the whole weekend (thursday-sunday) so I cannot mod (m)any fights. Exception would be a single easy lowlevel fight which I will run monday evening. @Jindl: Can you take over the roster keeping on this weekend? I`ll take the whole next week to pay it back to you.
Druid Roxors 03-30-04, 11:57 AM	The situation is escalating out of control!! Ill try to mod two fights if things get too difficult.
Myrridin 03-30-04, 12:59 PM	Ok, I didn't know it was this bad. If I'm given a low level fight, and have the tactics by Friday, then I'll be able to run it either Friday afternoon, or Monday morning. I'm out of town Sat and Sun. I'm fine with modding a low level fight, ECl 4 or below.
barrel_master 03-30-04, 02:11 PM	Tellish_of_Ket >> When's that juggernaut guy coming in? I'm interested in seeing what he can do.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-30-04, 02:21 PM	Very soon. Just need a few more credits. And with all the mods away, looks like a good week to rack up a bunch. He's ECL 9, so that's 21 credits. I should post him though, and let ppl critique him and point out any errors i may have made. Maybe i'll post him afterwork tonight while i'm doing more audits. -ToK
Myrridin 03-30-04, 02:29 PM	Speaking of credits. I was thinking of creating a lycanthrope with my credits, when I have enough. In the MM they have a level 1 human with the lycanthrope template on him that's a challenge rating of 5. They have 1 level in a class, and then the werecreature template. Do you add the base creatures HD into the beginning HD, plus the LA when calculating how many credits it takes? So I'm thinking that if you do, it takes 24 credits to create a level 1 werecritter. Am I correct?
Magagumo 03-30-04, 02:33 PM	@Myrddin Depends on the critter of course. You have 1 class level+2 LA+HD of animal, So a werebear (say, 1st level fighter) is a 9th character (1 fig+2 LA+ 6 HD brown bear). I look forward to him, T_o_K... nice spotting that they remain humanoids ;)
Caterane 03-30-04, 02:59 PM	Actually it`s 6 HD animal + 3 LA = ECL 9. No fighter level because it already has HD. Haha, Myrridin wants to play one to. Happy modding. BTW, my upcoming character needs 27 credits but they`ll be worth it. After that I begin to save for a succubus and settle the question about the arena bunny once and for all.
Hatzinger 03-30-04, 04:29 PM	Oetzi wants to apply for a monster fight. Seeing that a gladiator worth his pay seems to be needing an animal companion, he wants one, too. So Oetzi goes to hunt a fiendish, half-dragon, dire COW! Oh, and she´s got to be lilac, too.
Caterane 03-30-04, 04:34 PM	Red alert off. I`ll be here on this weekend. Jindl, give me maximum fights please!
Druid Roxors 03-30-04, 04:48 PM	So Hatzinger, I believe the fight is now final?
Ethendril 03-30-04, 04:49 PM	@Mag: I like your new character. Very evil, very fun.
Caterane 03-30-04, 04:56 PM	@Mag: I just checked the yuan-ti when the new gladiator was posted. SR 14 is really nice! Which way are you planning to go? Any trailers for us?
PostalBoy 03-30-04, 04:57 PM	Keeg has been updated and is ready for his second loss for the week of 3/31
Magagumo 03-30-04, 07:09 PM	Well, first of all, Toreilison is based off one of the Malign (super villains) in my current campaign. She represents Pride, and is presently a Yuan-ti Abomination by way of Yunan-ti cultist (Savage Species). However, being that that version is based off CR, I had to go a different route here. I'm looking towards Blackguard, as you can tell by my feats. Will be interesting to see how exactly I pull it off, but I hope she works well, especially with the SR (as you so noticed Cat). :)
SnarkHunter 03-30-04, 10:07 PM	Both my characters are ready. I would like 1 or zero fights, since I've got a credit to burn and no great desire to accumulate more.
Battousai2005 03-30-04, 10:11 PM	Since I've been reeeeeaaaaaaalllllly board of late, I decided I'd make more of a story for Kage, the drunk ronin. Since I didn't really want to put it into his profile, I decided to do it on a roleplay. That, and Mustadio wanted to see it. I know it was posted earlier, but Ive been busy. If anyone wants to take a look, I tried to spend some time on it. Kage's history. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2993341#post2993341) Enjoy! Id like one or two fights, if you please. Can I get a non-caster fight this week, please? No? Oh, well, then not a caster dual at least? No? Dang.
Battousai2005 03-30-04, 10:22 PM	Akordia challanges Jaydai, xeno_eleusis. Roleplay can be found here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3001561#post3001561) Kage is currently lost after drinking one too many sakes and cannot issue a challange but is ready to fight.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-30-04, 11:02 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Actually it`s 6 HD animal + 3 LA = ECL 9. No fighter level because it already has HD. Haha, Myrridin wants to play one to. Happy modding. BTW, my upcoming character needs 27 credits but they`ll be worth it. After that I begin to save for a succubus and settle the question about the arena bunny once and for all. You're wrong there Cat. You start as a 1st level fighter, THEN add the template and the +3 la is only for natural lycan's. Afflicted lycans are only LA +2. Humans have no base hd. Their base hd is their class level. So Mag is right. 1st fighter, +6hd animal/lycan, +2la afflicted = ECL 9. -ToK
cellardweller 03-30-04, 11:55 PM	I have managed to borrow a laptop for this weekend so I will be able to run one fight. I am marking Johan ready, but he will volunteer to sit out for the no-fight credit.
Caterane 03-31-04, 12:46 AM	@Tellish: p171 MM, clearly says LA+3. Perhaps you borrowed Motherbast's Monster Manual? @Mag: Nice. @MB: :D
Druid Roxors 03-31-04, 12:54 AM	@ Cat: 3.5 SRD, Creating a Lycanthrope Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural). In addition, a lycanthrope's character level is increased by the number of racial Hit Dice the base animal has.
Caterane 03-31-04, 01:01 AM	+16 str, +2 dex, +8 con, +2 wis, DR, natural armor, and some other abilities for LA+2, like a troglodyte? :eek:
^Rayne^ 03-31-04, 01:42 AM	How is it that Pairings are ready already? It is only Tuesday here and that is the earliest they have ever been locked. I was sitting here trying to get Aiki ready and all of the sudden the pairings are locked? That doesn't seem right. The time set point is the 31st and it isn't the 31st here on the West Coat of North America yet. Please let some of use do our changes within the time we have been given. I wanted to make Aiki active and I only need about 30 minutes to get him completed and will easily meet the 30th deadline. Thanks! Rayne
cellardweller 03-31-04, 01:52 AM	Originally posted by Caterane +16 str, +2 dex, +8 con, +2 wis, DR, natural armor, and some other abilities for LA+2, like a troglodyte? :eek: Don't forget the cruddy animal HD. Afflicted Lycanthropes have 1/2 as much DR and have to make control shape DC25 checks to avoid switching to animal (not hybrid) form when damaged (every 25% boundary). Because afflicted lycanthropy is an acquired template, you would not be able to start with any ranks in control shape (Because your class level is exists before you became a lycanthrope and the animal HD are applied before you are aware of the lycanthrope) so the first few fights will be very difficult indeed. Changing to Hybrid or Animal form could be a pre-buff, but would require the gladiator to be able to take 10 on their control check.
^Rayne^ 03-31-04, 01:55 AM	I have finished updating Aiki Auk and made him ready for this weeks fights. Please include him in this weeks arena combat. I completed him minutes before 11pm on the 30 of March before the 31st deadline. I hope that Aiki is included in the matchups! Rayne
Caterane 03-31-04, 01:56 AM	Then why didnt Tellish invest in another +1 LA to be a natural lycanthrope? Sounds better to me. @Rayne: You can edit your character until the Pitlord who makes the pairings posts "PAIRINGS UNDER COURSE!"
^Rayne^ 03-31-04, 02:05 AM	Cool, thanks for the info, I saw the sign at the bottom of the Fights thread saying "Pairings for the 31st of March" and I thought that it was signaling that the pairings were set and we couldn't make updates. Anyway that was my mistake but I got Aiki ready to play.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-31-04, 05:45 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Then why didnt Tellish invest in another +1 LA to be a natural lycanthrope? Sounds better to me. Originally posted by Cellardwellar Don't forget the cruddy animal HD. Afflicted Lycanthropes have 1/2 as much DR and have to make control shape DC25 checks to avoid switching to animal (not hybrid) form when damaged (every 25% boundary). I think some ppl are reading this wrong. A voluntary change to hybrid form is DC 15. #2, is the pc in question is OBVIOUSLY aware of it's condition. Duh! Why else would he be joining the arena? If he weren't aware of his condition then he'd have to start off as a Level 2 fighter with the rest of the level 2 group and when he first gets hit, that's when the template would apply? Doesn't make sense to me. But hey, if you geniuses want him to start at level 2, with a lycan template and work his way up until he loses a quarter of his hit points, i don't mind :D So that is utterly ridiculous. He obviously starts off aware, has ranks in control wildshape, and enters the arena in hybrid form. Please don't get yourselves all tied up in knots with brainfarts trying to jindlize the wording on lycans to nerf it because you didn't think of it first. That's pretty typical. And Cat, before slamming something, i think YOU might want to set the bong down and re-read it. LOL He's a level 1 something, gets afflicted with lycan, becomes aware of his condition, animal hit-dice are applied and some of the skill points gained from animal hit-dice are applied to control wildshape, he enters the arena in Hybrid form. It's that simple. It isn't rocket science. I don't know why all of a sudden the brain spasms going on, like suddenly everyone is an expert on lycanthropy. Please read it if you're going to critisize it. Don't just look at one passage and say "Oh...you suck. Should have taken LA+3." There's more to read, so read on. -ToK Webster Dictionary defines Jindlize -adj. 1. To twist meaning of words where specifically they become advantageous to you. 2. To thwart others subtle uses of meanings to gain advantages for yourself. 3. To simplify and minimize that which you did not create. 4. All of the above can be used simultaneously to confound, confuse, and generally bewilder a group of people into mesmerising them into thinking you're right. :rofl: Uh boy. i hope Jindl has a sense of humour. LOL j/k bud.
Caterane 03-31-04, 05:52 AM	Ho cowboy, pull the reins! You`re right. I just didn`t check the whole 5 pages but saw +3 written at LA. Would never dream of touching your character :smirk:
Tellish_of_Ket 03-31-04, 06:23 AM	Did we lose Page 2 and up of this forum? I wanted to check out the elder mod forum (the one were we post only once and has a vote tally). But can't seem to find it. I only see the first page of this forum. -ToK
Caterane 03-31-04, 06:27 AM	LOL Tellish!! Too funny. Wait, I have one too...
Caterane 03-31-04, 06:54 AM	http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Jindl.jpg Jindler: "At all: I`ve found out that "wilded armor unarmored" means "si yakoo" in the southeast bangladeshian tongue. Now if you delete the last 'o' and read it backwards it means "Is okay" so I think that druids wearing wilded armor are considered unarmored. The proof is obvious." http://home.arcor.de/caterane/scream.jpg http://home.arcor.de/caterane/scream2.jpg http://home.arcor.de/caterane/scream3.jpg "AAARGHH!! IT`S THE JINDLER!!" http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Jindl.jpg Jindler: "And furthermore I am convinced that animals wear hats, belts and rings in their free time when we humans don`t watch them so these items shouldn`t meld into wildshape because they are natural for all animals!" *woosh* http://home.arcor.de/caterane/batsign.jpg http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Catman.jpg "WOOHOO!! THE CATMAN!!" http://home.arcor.de/caterane/cheering.jpg http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Catman2.jpg Catman: "No Jindler! You`re wrong. Neither is your referance a valid one nor do animals wear outfits. Let`s try to keep the balance." http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Motherbast.jpg Motherbast: "Actually I think the Jindler is right. I`ve just found a reference in an ancient biblical text about druids in old Ireland and ...wait a second *blubberblubberblubber* *pheeewwwww* uhm, what did I say? Ah, yeah, Jindler is right because...because, well I play a druid and that sounds good to me. If you excuse me now I have serious matters to attend to..." *blubberblubberblubber*
Tellish_of_Ket 03-31-04, 07:54 AM	And hey, wait a second? Since when the armor melds and i'm no longer considered wearing armor, doesn't that mean i can wear like 10 suits of full plate mail and they all stack? Because you know of course i'm not considered armored anymore and so by nature the bonuses would stack, because i'm stripped of all armor but it SPECIFICALLY says i retain their bonuses. It doesn't say anything about them not stacking anymore. Coool 10 suites of full plate mail +80 ac 10 tower shields +40 ac 24wisdom +7 ac 18 dex +4 ac +10 nat armor Oh yeah, and my quarterstaff that gets melded is +5/+5 defending and i activate it before i meld. AC 10base+141+10defending=AC 161 awesome. -ToK
Caterane 03-31-04, 07:59 AM	http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Motherbast.jpg Yeah Tellish, that is correct because litteral interpretation is the king and common sense a lowly peasant!
Hatzinger 03-31-04, 08:48 AM	@Cat: MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaaaa..... i nearly wet my pants. keep up searching your image library!
LLMadCow 03-31-04, 09:25 AM	Guess who's back....?
Druid Roxors 03-31-04, 09:50 AM	I hope you do not mind, I switched one of my level 0 Spells to "Read magic". None of them had been used before. -Arcanis is active, BTW-
Myrridin 03-31-04, 10:03 AM	Man Druid, I dunno...that's a pretty powerful spell... :) Ok, I don't think there's a big deal, but then again, I'm not an Elder Mod.
Hatzinger 03-31-04, 10:39 AM	Let´s assume a Bard wants to cast a Druid/Ranger spell from a scroll. Let´s assume this spell is spike growth. It´s a level 3 spell for Druids (and thus, Druids must be level 5+ to cast it) or a level 2 spell for Rangers (and thus, Rangers must be level 8+ to cast it). Afaik, the folowing actions ("Magic Items/Scrolls/Activation" still applies) are: - deciphering the scroll. You can´t use UMD here, because a) it would take you 10 rounds to do in combat (ok, you CAN do this, although it would be unwise). b) you can´t take 10 with UMD (this is from UMD´s description) and thus can´t decipher it with UMD before the fight. So you have to rely on "read magic" or Spellcraft checks. - UMD to emulate a class feature (DC20). This allows you to cast divine spells. NOTE: Here it´s open to discussion if the "use a scroll" passage in the UMD description allows you to cast both arcane AND divine spells as you wish or if the WotC guys just wrote "as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list" with arcane spells in mind, not thinking about the possibility that someone could also want to cast divine spells by using this text passage. It´s not clearly stated here. - UMD to get the spell on your class list (DC 20 + caster level of the spell. This gets you to DC25 (Drd) or DC24 (Rgr. They have 1/2 their class levels as caster levels.). - UMD to get the minimum needed ability score (Wis13 for Drds, Wis12 for Rgrs). I don´t know if you can use the minimum Wis of the ranger if you boughed a (cheaper) Drd scroll; and thus use the better part from both classes. - Caster level check to activate the scroll if your caster level is lower than the scroll´s caster level. (Like in most cases for Rogs/Brds. I would appreciate your thoughts on this topic. * UMD = Use Magic Device
Jindl 03-31-04, 10:40 AM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Or just fireseed, fireseed, fireseed, flamstrike, flamestrike, flamestrike. Really, I was thinking the same thing, right about now... Nah, you guys are funny. The Joker was definately the coolest Batman villain... On a completely different topic: Pairings may be delayed until tomorrow. Please bear with me ... -Jindl
Jindl 03-31-04, 10:46 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger Let´s assume a Bard wants to cast a Druid/Ranger spell from a scroll. Let´s assume this spell is spike growth. It´s a level 3 spell for Druids (and thus, Druids must be level 5+ to cast it) or a level 2 spell for Rangers (and thus, Rangers must be level 8+ to cast it). Afaik, the folowing actions ("Magic Items/Scrolls/Activation" still applies) are: - deciphering the scroll. You can´t use UMD here, because a) it would take you 10 rounds to do in combat (ok, you CAN do this, although it would be unwise). b) you can´t take 10 with UMD (this is from UMD´s description) and thus can´t decipher it with UMD before the fight. So you have to rely on "read magic" or Spellcraft checks. This is true. That's why its a good idea for a bard to have read magic on his list. Originally posted by Hatzinger - UMD to emulate a class feature (DC20). This allows you to cast divine spells. NOTE: Here it´s open to discussion if the "use a scroll" passage in the UMD description allows you to cast both arcane AND divine spells as you wish or if the WotC guys just wrote "as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list" with arcane spells in mind, not thinking about the possibility that someone could also want to cast divine spells by using this text passage. It´s not clearly stated here. This is not necessary when using scrolls. This is more for emulating turning ability (to activate something) or emulating that you are a paladin (to use a holy avenger), etc. It doesn't/shouldn't apply to using scrolls. Originally posted by Hatzinger - UMD to get the spell on your class list (DC 20 + caster level of the spell. This gets you to DC25 (Drd) or DC24 (Rgr. They have 1/2 their class levels as caster levels.). - UMD to get the minimum needed ability score (Wis13 for Drds, Wis12 for Rgrs). I don´t know if you can use the minimum Wis of the ranger if you boughed a (cheaper) Drd scroll; and thus use the better part from both classes. - Caster level check to activate the scroll if your caster level is lower than the scroll´s caster level. (Like in most cases for Rogs/Brds. I would appreciate your thoughts on this topic. * UMD = Use Magic Device The two UMD checks are required (get the spell on your class list, and emulate the ability score necessary to cast the spell). The caster level check is not necessary, as it was already covered by the first UMD check. -Jindl
Hatzinger 03-31-04, 10:49 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Man Druid, I dunno...that's a pretty powerful spell... :) Ok, I don't think there's a big deal, but then again, I'm not an Elder Mod. It CAN be a powerful spell. Especially if a Bard or Sorcerer didn´t take it and thus has to use his spellcraft skill to decipher his scrolls before fights. What? You didn´t put skill points in spellcraft? So what do you plan to do with all those neat scrolls you boughed? For toilet-paper? Oh... (Yes, i am a bean-counter.) :banghead:
Hatzinger 03-31-04, 10:51 AM	@Jindl: I trust your word, but just for better understanding: show me the rules, please. :D
Druid Roxors 03-31-04, 11:15 AM	Indeed, the only thing that you have to do is the Scroll activation roll. DC 20 + Caster Level. Class features are things like wildshape, turn undead, smite evil, familiar, animal companion, abundant step, etc. A caster level check is not necesary because you cannot cast the spell in the first place. Oh, and I did Max out Spellcraft, just that I have low Int. Ive seen people switch spells and equipment they have never used without much hazzle. In fact, I was discussing this with Jindl before the pairings (through pm) and forgot to make the change. Edit: spell level -> Caster level
Druid Roxors 03-31-04, 11:15 AM	@ Jindl: Could the pitlord who works with Arcanis for his next fight be someone who has been folowing this discussion? Hatzinger, you, Caterane, Tellish or someone who now knows about scroll activation?
Druid Roxors 03-31-04, 11:24 AM	http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Catman2.jpg Catman: Now, thats Balance, right Robin? http://www.marionnettes.ca/documentation/20e_siecle/kingkong.jpg Robin: [Nightingale] BRRAWR RAWWR!!!
Caterane 03-31-04, 11:40 AM	@Druid Roxor: LOL if Nightingale is such a threat to your character at 13th lvl you might want to rework your level progression planing because he won`t be competitive at all in this case. Ah wait, now I see your point: it is the case with your PC and now you want to nerf others to compensate. Ok, suggestion: when we meet on the battlefield my mounts won`t attack, ok? I`ll just ride them.
Druid Roxors 03-31-04, 11:46 AM	Don't take it like that! It is not my intention to Nerf your character. I am a prime suporter of the CR vs ECL ruleset. But let me illustrate my point... Harverster the 1st: Ixidor's point:...........+15/+10 melee, 2d6+8 (20/x3), HP 90 His lowly MOUNT: Hoof: +15 melee, 2d6+10 (20/x2), 10ft reach Bite: +10 melee, 2d6+5 (20/x2), 10ft reach HP 133 If you do not see anything wrong with that... Well ... What the hell is wrong with you!? Edit: Oh, and I never said Robin is a large threat to my character when he reaches level 13, But its a larger threat than batman himself. [Which, of course, is caricaturizing, which is obviously exagerating]
Hatzinger 03-31-04, 12:09 PM	@druid what leads you to the assumption that we now fully "know" about Use Magic Device and scroll activation? We have only heard one opinion until now.
Ethendril 03-31-04, 12:11 PM	Originally posted by LLMadCow Guess who's back....? Good to have you back!
Druid Roxors 03-31-04, 12:11 PM	I said "Following this Discussion" not "Knows all about UMD". If you are following the topic, it will be cleared up soon. Should the pairings commence I prefer that my pitlord knows as much of the topic as possible and keeps up to date with the current rulling. Edit: I said OR someone who knows, Should that person exist. Im not saying that any of you Know. (although you might)
Arstimis 03-31-04, 01:08 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Ok, suggestion: when we meet on the battlefield my mounts won`t attack, ok? I`ll just ride them. hey Cat, you mind doing this for my fight. That dragon kinda scares me, and its not like you got him for power only as a good mount So what do you say?
Caterane 03-31-04, 01:32 PM	@Druid Roxor: You know these are just the very basic stats, don`t you? Just 3 buffs: Righteous might, Divine power and Divine favor, plus haste as free action: Attack: +29/+29/+24/+19 Damage: 2d6+19, or powerattack 2d6+45 @ +16 attack, that`s 6d6+135 on a charge (not a critical!) Let`s compare Nightingale, which won`t ever get any offensive buffs: Attack: +15/+15/+10 Damage: 2d6+5 vs Iron the Panza Ac30 without buffs, 34 with Righteous might including DR 10. So again, you still think that way: Originally posted by Druid Roxors: If you do not see anything wrong with that... Well ... What the hell is wrong with you!? No, I don`t see anything wrong here. If you think THAT is overpowered I really can`t help you. And you don`t want me to begin posting what a druids companion could do, with shared spells (which on top of that takes no extra actions by the caster).
xeno_eleusis 03-31-04, 01:36 PM	Postings are still not up, hope this is in on time. Boafer Stonewill is ready 31/03
Jindl 03-31-04, 01:38 PM	Name one single time where Nox has ever been able to share spells. The damn bat is never within 5 feet of me. Always flitting off to go bite people, before I even get to buff him up ... :( -Jindl BTW: I had set up for Aku to have an Improved Familiar (which he has not summoned yet). However, I just realized that he'll never qualify for the Ice Mephit I wanted, since he won't be taking any more levels of wizard. So, since the feat hasn't been used, I am switching it out for Spell Focus (something I need for Archmage later...)
xeno_eleusis 03-31-04, 01:54 PM	BTW, I think I can manage to volenteer as a Mod/Pitlord this week if it's not too late. School has just been a bit much this week, is all. Give me a big one if you want, ECL3 or higher, suits me.
Jindl 03-31-04, 02:50 PM	Pairings will be tomorrow morning (when I return). -Jindl
Druid Roxors 03-31-04, 03:36 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Druid Roxor: You know these are just the very basic stats, don`t you? Just 3 buffs: Righteous might, Divine power and Divine favor, plus haste as free action:Easy, just waste 3 rounds (or four rounds on meld into stone + movement) and have them dispelled by a pure caster. Or have all your precious spells interrupted by a willy archer. Let`s compare Nightingale, which won`t ever get any offensive buffs: Attack: +15/+15/+10 Damage: 2d6+5Thats an extra havester right of the bat! the only difference is that it cannot cast spells. vs Iron the Panza Ac30 without buffs, 34 with Righteous might including DR 10. You mean AC 23 and 27 with buffs, ignoring DR 10/EVIL because Nightingale does Evil attacks. No, I don`t see anything wrong here. If you think THAT is overpowered I really can`t help you. And you don`t want me to begin posting what a druids companion could do, with shared spells (which on top of that takes no extra actions by the caster). Apart from the fact it does the same damage as you without buffs, there is nothing wrong with it. Oh, I know what a druid's animal companion can do, and it can be as effective as the druid itself in melee. The only problem is that in order to buff your companion you have to be right besides him, and that is not going to happen as long as there is intelligent oposition.
Caterane 03-31-04, 04:19 PM	An extra Harvester LOL. Ok, should we make a match Harvester vs Nightingale? 2 rounds, 3 perhaps if I roll a natural 1. Druid Roxor, Nightingale is a stupid lame thing. The only thing it is good at is that it can take a few hits and it flies. These abilities are essential for a mounted charger build at this level, and even more at higher levels but the attack is a little bonus and nothing more. If you don`t believe me check the Harvesters last fights. Nightingale died in round 3 vs Iron, and had no impact at all vs Jindl and Skymoon.
Magagumo 03-31-04, 04:46 PM	Actually, Nightingale is no longer an outsider, so it no longer has evil-based natural attacks. It is still extraplanr.. for all you abjurists out there... ;) @Jindl Got to love Archmage.. Bruno is finally getting it next level.. whenever that happens.
Druid Roxors 03-31-04, 05:12 PM	@ Mag: Not completely correct. Yes, they are no longer Outsiders but they remain Extraplanar. Abjurations that protect or banish extraplanar creatures still apply. Only alignment subtypes are lost when you become a skeleton. Now, about harvester and his Cauchemar. Its CR is 7 and your level is 13. Why are you so mad if you are going to be allowed to keep it even if the CR limit was raised to -5?
cellardweller 03-31-04, 08:39 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket I think some ppl are reading this wrong. A voluntary change to hybrid form is DC 15. No arguments here. You would need a control shape score of at least +5 to enter the arena in hybrid form Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket #2, is the pc in question is OBVIOUSLY aware of it's condition. Duh! Why else would he be joining the arena? If he weren't aware of his condition then he'd have to start off as a Level 2 fighter with the rest of the level 2 group and when he first gets hit, that's when the template would apply? Doesn't make sense to me. But hey, if you geniuses want him to start at level 2, with a lycan template and work his way up until he loses a quarter of his hit points, i don't mind :D So that is utterly ridiculous. He obviously starts off aware, has ranks in control wildshape, and enters the arena in hybrid form. Please don't get yourselves all tied up in knots with brainfarts trying to jindlize the wording on lycans to nerf it because you didn't think of it first. That's pretty typical. No-one is saying that your character isn't aware of his affliction. Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket He's a level 1 something, gets afflicted with lycan, becomes aware of his condition, animal hit-dice are applied and some of the skill points gained from animal hit-dice are applied to control wildshape, he enters the arena in Hybrid form. It's that simple. It isn't rocket science. This is where you have it wrong - it goes Affliction, Animal HD, Awareness - you can't switch the order just because it suits you. The skills gained from animal HD can't be used to purchase ranks in control shape SRD LYCANTHROPY AS AN AFFLICTION When a character contracts lycanthropy through a lycanthrope’s bite (see above), no symptoms appear until the first night of the next full moon. On that night, the afflicted character involuntarily assumes animal form and forgets his or her own identity, temporarily becoming an NPC. The character remains in animal form, assuming the appropriate alignment, until the next dawn. The character’s actions during this first episode are dictated by the alignment of its animal form. The character remembers nothing about the entire episode (or subsequent episodes) unless he succeeds on a DC 15 Wisdom check, in which case he becomes aware of his lycanthropic condition. As is evident from this passage, you can't become aware of the condition until after the first transformation, and the Animal HD have already been applied. SRD CONTROL SHAPE (WIS) Any character who has contracted lycanthropy and is aware of his condition can learn Control Shape as a class skill. (An afflicted lycanthrope not yet aware of his condition can attempt Control Shape checks untrained.) This skill determines whether an afflicted lycanthrope can control his shape. A natural lycanthrope does not need this skill, since it has full control over its shape. As you were not aware of the affliction when the animal HD were applied, you cannot use them to purchase ranks. There is a very good reason why afflicted lycanthropy is only LA+2.
Magagumo 03-31-04, 11:07 PM	I see Toreilison ahs a green violation... that means she can still fight, right? Just let me know what the problem is, and I'll get it fixed up by next week :)
Tellish_of_Ket 03-31-04, 11:29 PM	Originally posted by cellardweller As is evident from this passage, you can't become aware of the condition until after the first transformation, and the Animal HD have already been applied. You're partially correct. The animal hit dice get applied, then he's aware. Now he has the animal hit-dice in skills to burn up. They don't just "Disappear" mysteriously losing 24 pts worth of skill points. Afflicted or Natural, i still get them. I do get them AFTER becoming aware because i've changed shape to animal form and the skill points are now available. So i do get to spend them on control wildshape. Lycan template says i get (int+2) x hd. What you are saying then is they wasted their time in printing that because according to you, all those skills points just VANISH? No, in fact they don't. Once i've changed form, and become aware, i get to spend the points. The reason they say i have to be aware to spend points in control wildshape is because it hardly makes sense to spend (in my case 24 skill points) into skills and not know where/how/why the knowledge is coming from? Get bitten, and suddenly i'm a better craftsman? No no no...they happen after the change, after the awareness, and subsequently can be spent on control wildshape. -ToK
Druid Roxors 03-31-04, 11:36 PM	Well, in my opinion, you do get the skill points before the awareness and have to spend them on things apropriate for the form. For instance: You are bit and transform under the full moon. As a level 1 commoner, you hardly knew how to swim, but if you toss the lycan (in animal form) into the water it will have skills like jump, swim, etc. As you say, skillpoints don't simply "Vanish" when you are bitten. You do get them but you choose them from the animal's class skills. Or that I would infer.
cellardweller 03-31-04, 11:43 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket You're partially correct. The animal hit dice get applied, then he's aware. Now he has the animal hit-dice in skills to burn up. They don't just "Disappear" mysteriously losing 24 pts worth of skill points. Afflicted or Natural, i still get them. I do get them AFTER becoming aware because i've changed shape to animal form and the skill points are now available. So i do get to spend them on control wildshape. Lycan template says i get (int+2) x hd. What you are saying then is they wasted their time in printing that because according to you, all those skills points just VANISH? No, in fact they don't. Once i've changed form, and become aware, i get to spend the points. The reason they say i have to be aware to spend points in control wildshape is because it hardly makes sense to spend (in my case 24 skill points) into skills and not know where/how/why the knowledge is coming from? Get bitten, and suddenly i'm a better craftsman? No no no...they happen after the change, after the awareness, and subsequently can be spent on control wildshape. -ToK Now I think you may be the one guilty of Jindl-ising ;). On transforming for the first time (or on failing the fort save - the text isn't clear) you gain Animal HD. Skill points for these, like every other skill point in existance, have to be spent when the HD is achieved. You can't save them up to spend later.
Battousai2005 03-31-04, 11:48 PM	I assume that from the lycan abbreviation I see, that most of you have seen the movie "Underworld" (loved it, btw). In the movie, the memories are transferred to the recipient of the bite. I believe that is what happens. Still, I would guess my vote couts for next to nothing. For fun, lets assume that I'm wrong and that. Now here is an idea that no one has thought of. Lets assume that TOK's char is bitten on the full moon. This would make him immediatly transform and therefore gain the knowledge that he is a were-whatever.
Druid Roxors 04-01-04, 12:06 AM	Metagamezor!! In any case, on what stat is control shape based on? Edit: The movie Underworld Sucked BAD. Im a fan of the World of darkness (which is a setting just like grayhawk in another system, another game, another company) and the whole movie is a sucky rippoff from a novel written by White Wolf Publishing. It sickens me. Besdies... The special effects were pathetic. I would rather watch a slideshow or comic than that movie.
cellardweller 04-01-04, 12:41 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Now here is an idea that no one has thought of. Lets assume that TOK's char is bitten on the full moon. This would make him immediatly transform and therefore gain the knowledge that he is a were-whatever. He has to make a will save after the episode is over to gain the knowledge. By this point the animal HD have already been applied.
kattattack22 04-01-04, 12:52 AM	Underworld isn't that bad. The lead actress was hot and dressed all in leather. The action was pretty cool too. Plot? Who needs it?
MotherBast 04-01-04, 07:11 AM	While it dosen't make any sence to be bitten and "suddenly be better at crafting", I am affriad that is what happens. When you are bitten, and gain the template, the HD are applied. You have to spend all skill points from HD as soon as they are applied. You don't wait untill you find out your a wear creature before you spend the points. You spend them as soon as you become one, wether you know it or not. You could, however, be a classless Lyco first, then become aware, and apon taking your first class level spend all your points in Control Shape. If your skill mod is on the + side, you should have no trouble hitting the +5 mark with just 1 level.
Jindl 04-01-04, 11:16 AM	@Mag - The snake's green violation is now explained on the Violation thread. @Other Violators - I will pair you anyway, since it is short notice. Violations must be corrected before the fight. If possible, please fix the violations before pairings (which will be in like 1 hour). If it is after pairings, DO NOT EDIT your character sheet. The proper way to fix violations after pairings is to email/PM both your opponent and your pitlord with the corrections, then edit the sheet after the fight is posted. Regardless of which way it goes, after you edit your character sheet, post on the "Violations" thread that the correction has been made, and I will remove the violation tag. -Jindl
PostalBoy 04-01-04, 11:44 AM	Keeg Ofini Character Violations have been corrected. Any idea when parings will be completed?
Tellish_of_Ket 04-01-04, 11:47 AM	Originally posted by MotherBast While it dosen't make any sence to be bitten and "suddenly be better at crafting", I am affriad that is what happens. When you are bitten, and gain the template, the HD are applied. You have to spend all skill points from HD as soon as they are applied. You don't wait untill you find out your a wear creature before you spend the points. You spend them as soon as you become one, wether you know it or not. You could, however, be a classless Lyco first, then become aware, and apon taking your first class level spend all your points in Control Shape. If your skill mod is on the + side, you should have no trouble hitting the +5 mark with just 1 level. Uhm...so what you're trying to say is that INA doesn't give you natural weapons then right? Lets apply your INA logic here. It doesn't say i don't, so therefore i must. I'm not trying to be a hardcase about this, but there isn't anything saying that it doesn't. Maybe i should apply INA/MELD logic here, because if it works for you then why can't i use the same logic for lycanthropy? Oh..oh..i get..you guys don't have a lycan...got it. Roger that. Sorry to dissappoint you (or be sarcastic) but the skill points stand. And i'm not trying to jindlising anything. I'm trying to apply the best interpretation of the spirit of the rules to my knowledge. I believe my interpretation is correct, and it's not changing anything or giving him any unfair advantages, unlike you guys and your messed up INA theories. Look at the troll as a character template. Ever wonder why they say they GET NATURAL WEAPONS if EVERY SINGLE CREATURE alive had them? Maybe i'll make a peasant/were-bear natural. Same ECL. 0-peasant+6bear+3natural. LOL -ToK
Jindl 04-01-04, 11:57 AM	Although I don't agree with the ranting about other topics, regarding the skill points, Tellish is right. Control Shape is a valid choice for him to spend his animal HD skill points on. But, Control Shape is not a class skill until he becomes aware of his condition (which happens after the animal HD are added and the resultant skill points are spent). Therefore, all skill points spent from his pre-lycanthrope HD and his animal HD can take Control Shape as a cross-class skill. Any HD after awareness can take Control Shape as a class skill. The rules are quite clear on this, should anyone actually take the time to read the Lycanthrope template or the Control Shape skill description in the SRD. @Tellish - There are still some errors in the character sheet draft you PM'd me. I promise I'll get a response typed up and sent to you tonight. @Postalboy - Please post that the errors are corrected on the "Violations" thread. Then, I'll remove your violation tag. Pairings will be in a couple of hours. -Jindl
barrel_master 04-01-04, 01:12 PM	'rules' r u l e s 'he' h e 'the' t h e the rules he is I curious, I can't seem to duplicate the slang. I guess it's just a one time thing.
Tellish_of_Ket 04-01-04, 01:27 PM	LOL :rofl: I see april fools has hit the Wiz-O boards. I read my post and the first thing i thought was "GASP! Someone edited my post and made me sound like a retard" Then i read other posts as well, and the same slang is spoken throughout. LOL Very nice touch wiz. -ToK
Hatzinger 04-01-04, 01:34 PM	!!!!! THE HORROR !!!!! Renton, WA - Microsoft proudly announces the acquisition of Wizards of the Coast from Hasbro. Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates was quoted as saying, "I believe the Wizards of the Coast properties are ideal for Xbox development." Tabletop card games and Pencil and Paper roleplaying games have steadily been declining over the past four years. Electronic development of these properties will renew interest in games like Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons. We look forward to serving these communities through the Microsoft family of products." With Microsoft's successful marketing and development of the Windows series of operating systems, gamers can look forward to continual upgrades and improvements, beginning with the launch of D&D 3.501 in Spring, 2006. Rumours that Microsoft's intentions to integrate D&D into Windows as the default RPG would spark another monopoly inquiry caused stirs in the computing industry, and Microsoft's spokesman declined to comment, other than to say, "Look, nobody yelled "Monopoly!" when we integrated leading games such as Minesweeper, Pinball and Solitaire into the software. We believe that upgrading these games to something a little more complex is in the interests of the consumer." However, a rival RPG company was quoted as saying, "This is ridiculous. Making D&D the default Windows RPG is anti-competetive and unfair to all the other companies out there producing quality gaming rules." The European Commission is already making enquiries, following a recent fine imposed on Microsoft for similar practices involving its media player software. EDIT: Oh, i just see that its the 1st of April.:rolleyes: :D
kattattack22 04-01-04, 01:51 PM	Gahh! I don't want to talk like Mr. T! Ph34r |<4tt4tt4|<'s |33t skillz! |<4tt4tt4|< \/\/i|| r0x0rz th353 b04rd5 ti|| Mr. T 5p33ch is g0nz0r. J00 best \/\/4tch 0ut!
Pitlords 04-01-04, 02:16 PM	Da Pitlords think da Mr. T speach is funny. Pairings under way. No more editing characters.
Captain Mutilate 04-01-04, 02:23 PM	It's ok Hatzinger.. I got caught by the most ignored user. I sent a giant pm over to mel explaining why it's such a bad idea.
Captain Mutilate 04-01-04, 02:27 PM	Arrghz0rz. 1'M g0nn4 741K 1337 411 d4y n0w. D15 514|\|6 15 63771|\|g 0|\| M*Y_ |\|3R\/3z.
Pitlords 04-01-04, 03:23 PM	Pairings Done No more editing character sheets. Here is the schedule for the fights: 1. Tactics due to your Pitlord by Friday. 2. Pitlords may run fights with tactics recieved starting Friday. 3. Pitlords may run fights on default tactics starting Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. Good Luck! -Jindl
MotherBast 04-01-04, 04:01 PM	Jindl: Your right. Tellish could cross-class the Control Shape skill with his animal HD skill points. I haden't thought of that. If that was what Tellish was intending, I see no problem with that at all. I thought Tellish was implying the skill points from his animal HD wouldn't be spent untill after he became aware. My case was that that is incorrect. The points must be spent when he gains the HD. Just like when any HD is gained, the points must be spent imedatly. I suppose then he could cross-class Control Shape, and already be able to control his shape by the time he even becomes aware he is afflicted. Silly D&D rules.
Myrridin 04-01-04, 04:29 PM	ToK: I can take your level 2 fight this week. I ended having a bit more time than I thought. I can actually take any level 2 or 3 fight, I just noticed that you had 3 fights this week.
Druid Roxors 04-01-04, 04:41 PM	I think Tellish was trying to build up a few credits for his monstruosity. He will probably need that fight.
Ethendril 04-01-04, 04:56 PM	@Cat: Tactics sent for Dusk. -Ethendril
Pittbull 04-01-04, 06:29 PM	@Market_Share: Tactics have been sent via e-mail and pm
xeno_eleusis 04-01-04, 06:33 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Keeg Ofinni, postalboy Your grapple check is only +2 (+1 str, +1 bab) Not saying this to be rude, but not sure how you plan on winning fights... @ToK, Are you saying this about all straight monks? LOL... or just straight monks that don't have gear?
xeno_eleusis 04-01-04, 06:53 PM	http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/typos/typo11.jpg How is the Pitlord situation? I see that a couple people are moderating 3 fights.
PostalBoy 04-01-04, 07:02 PM	@Caterane: Tatics submitted for Keeg's fight via PM.
SnarkHunter 04-01-04, 08:24 PM	Hey Jindl, I have two contestants and no fights, I think that meens I lose my credit. Note: I don't want a fight! I was just clarifying.
Aramil Dunskar 04-01-04, 08:34 PM	Ok I've edited my character so please let me know if it got approved ;) Thanks -AD
MotherBast 04-01-04, 08:46 PM	Market, tactics for Dra'kel have been sent. If you don't get them, please let me know.
cellardweller 04-01-04, 09:18 PM	Originally posted by Aramil Dunskar Ok I've edited my character so please let me know if it got approved ;) Once your character has been paired, any changes result in an automatic forfiet of your match. As I saw your character before and after the change, I don't have an issue with the fight with Shiaan continuing as planned. On a side note your character is still in violation as the war domain does not grant exotic weapon proficiency (only martial). Email Tellish and my self with corrections, but don't edit you sheet any further.
Jindl 04-01-04, 09:39 PM	@Snark - Oh, yeah. I'll fix that. @xeno - We always need more pitlords. At the moment, what we really need is for the new guys to read some of the old fights, to learn how to become better pitlords. I'm not saying they're bad, just that they make the same mistakes that the oldtimer's used to make, and reading old fights may help with that. I hope the new pitlords develop quickly, because I want more people who are able to run higher level fights. When those level 13's come back, we're going to need high level pitlords... @Aramil - I appreciate you fixing the character, but as cellar was saying, you aren't supposed to edit your sheet from the time pairings are announced until the fight is posted. A lot of new guys make that mistake :D What you should do, if a change is needed between pairings and fight posting, is email/pm/or post the change on the violations thread, so that both your pitlord and your opponent are aware of the change. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 04-01-04, 10:31 PM	@ Jindl: Give me your Anna and Harvester II Fights!! ;) No, seriously. Do you think that I could be doing higher level Fights? (Judging on my previous work, of course.)
Mercy 04-01-04, 10:33 PM	@Druid - Tactics sent for Jo'Li
xeno_eleusis 04-01-04, 11:04 PM	@Magagumo - tactics sent for Boafer vs Brock - ECL4 Originally posted by Jindl @xeno - We always need more pitlords. At the moment, what we really need is for the new guys to read some of the old fights, to learn how to become better pitlords. I'm not saying they're bad, just that they make the same mistakes that the oldtimer's used to make, and reading old fights may help with that. I hope the new pitlords develop quickly, because I want more people who are able to run higher level fights. When those level 13's come back, we're going to need high level pitlords... @Jindl, I completely agree, I've pitlorded 3 fights already, two ECL2's and one ECL3, but recieved no feedback from anyone on the quality how I ran the fights (good or bad). I have read several fights from the past, some with completely blatant errors, some I've learned from as well and even incorporated them into my fights, like the +1 to DC for every 10 ft for spot and listen checks. I've noticed a lot of people getting upset at other people pointing out thier mistakes to them and with that said, I want to be diplomatic about it. Please, let me know when I have made mistakes in my own fights. I plan on posting a list like I did once before when I feel there was a bad ruling. I don't believe in re-runs, I think that as long as the errors were pointed out and made clear that the fight has be corrected. I don't care what other people say about CoCo. To me it's about learning the rules and discovering effective builds. And the only way that works is if people complain about badly run fights and debate certian rulings.
Druid Roxors 04-01-04, 11:11 PM	@ Mercy: Your tactics were NOT recieved, please try again or PM me. My spam blocker might be doing the trick...
SnarkHunter 04-02-04, 12:01 AM	PMed Donkey's tactics. I'll get Snarks tomorrow.
Caterane 04-02-04, 12:17 AM	If anyone wants to give me his fight to moderate here I am. Still need 16 credits. I think I`ll let one character sit out from next week on. Tactics received for Dusk. Just rewriting tactics for the Harvester because he won´t command Crimson to attack Kiowen :weep: Edit: LOL, WizO_Shadow tried to assimilate my sig. Good I had that Anti-Borg ...errr Board Virus up :D
Mustadio[MoF] 04-02-04, 12:20 AM	Pard's tactics sent!
Kaigan 04-02-04, 01:08 AM	@Cat: tactics sent for Matei via email. Hope you get them.
Limit 04-02-04, 01:21 AM	@Arstimis: Tactics for The Voiceless sent via E-mail.
Arstimis 04-02-04, 02:04 AM	@Limit: Tactics recieved
^Rayne^ 04-02-04, 04:27 AM	Tellish_of_Ket, I have PMed you Aiki Auk's tactics for this weeks battle. Rayne
Caterane 04-02-04, 06:13 AM	Tactics sent for Harvester and Ixidor. Received for Dusk, Matai, and for Keeg Ofinni (who autoloses because he sent them per PM :P Just kidding) Oh, and I need the tactics today.
Mercy 04-02-04, 07:43 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ Mercy: Your tactics were NOT recieved, please try again or PM me. My spam blocker might be doing the trick... Just sent it by PM
TaggIIV 04-02-04, 07:54 AM	Tactics sent to CM in a PM... please confirm edit - oh, aramil: go martial prof. halberdfrom your war domain - quite a nice axe. d10, AND it has that nifty double-damage when setting up against a charge action. or, i think you can have bastard sword Weapon Focus from that domain.. although you'd have to use the sword two-handed nless you spent a feat
Myrridin 04-02-04, 08:35 AM	ToK: Tactics for Zephin sent via E-mail yesterday.
Druid Roxors 04-02-04, 08:39 AM	@ Cat: My tactics will be sent in about 4 hours (School). @ Mercy: Tactics recieved, left you a little sidenote by PM.
kattattack22 04-02-04, 11:18 AM	@Cat- I will send Ony's tatics sometime this afternoon (about 4-6 hours from now and its 10:20 am Central Time here). I would have sent them sooner but work is keeping me from it.
LLMadCow 04-02-04, 11:23 AM	Hey everybody! What's new and exciting on the threads? I have been following some and posting here and there, but I have yet to read all of the 1000 some posts in this thread, let alone all of the rest of the new stuff. I am slowly working on getting up to speed, but I would love to hear any brief and simple synopsis people would offer up. @Cat - Are we going to vote on the Red Wizard issue, or debate some more? I am cool to continue debate for a bit longer, and I have a few more thoughts to add. How's everyone doing? Anyways, back to editing and prepping characters...
kedi 04-02-04, 12:58 PM	I'll use default tactics.
Hatzinger 04-02-04, 01:12 PM	@MotherBast: Tactics for Oetzi vs. Pale-Rider sent to you. Please confirm the arrival.
Druid Roxors 04-02-04, 01:51 PM	@ Mercy: Clarification Recieved. @ Caterane: Tactics sent, Please confirm.
Caterane 04-02-04, 01:53 PM	Aye @kackatak: Tactics? Countdown initiated...
Druid Roxors 04-02-04, 01:58 PM	Aye = Good @ Battousai: Tactics Missing, Please send before 11:59pm Pacific time. (no, im not that precise, and im not even on that timezone, But please get them soon)
Magagumo 04-02-04, 02:26 PM	Brock and Balfor (sp?) tactics recieved, will run fight after work. Spike & Moon-moon- will need tactics by this evening so I can review before tomorrow evening.
Caterane 04-02-04, 02:33 PM	Question: does Spike growth count as difficult terrain? Unlike with Entangle or Spike stones it doesn`t say so, so someone who passes his save would still be able to move his normal speed, right? Also it takes 1d4 per square damage if the creature moves on, right? Can anyone confirm this?
kattattack22 04-02-04, 02:57 PM	@Cat- Tatics for Ony vs. Tore sent!
Druid Roxors 04-02-04, 03:11 PM	@ Cat: Yes, it would seem that you do not loose half of your speed when you succeed your check. Nevertheless, you are reduced to half your speed if you fail your check which must be done every time you take damage. 3.5 SRD Hampered Movement: Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement. When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move. If more than one condition applies, multiply together all additional costs that apply. (This is a specific exception to the normal rule for doubling) In some situations, your movement may be so hampered that you don't have sufficient speed even to move 5 feet (1 square). In such a case, you may use a full-round action to move 5 feet (1 square) in any direction, even diagonally. Even though this looks like a 5-foot step, it's not, and thus it provokes attacks of opportunity normally. (You can't take advantage of this rule to move through impassable terrain or to move when all movement is prohibited to you.) You can't run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement. In other words, a character reduced to half speed by this spell and then under an entangle or spike stones effect would have his speed reduced twice. As in 20ft speed -> 10 ft -> 5 ft. Note specific exeption to the rule. Its not 1/3 speed, its 1/4. Edit: Although, I still think it should count as difficult terrain for the purpose of charge/run.
Hatzinger 04-02-04, 03:41 PM	@Captain Mutilate, @Kedi, still waiting for your tactics...
Magagumo 04-02-04, 04:15 PM	Alright, Brock v. Boafer is all posted, so check it out when you get the chance. The dice gods definetely manipulated this fight, as the rolls tended to be a mite one-sided. Anyways, I've recieved tactics from Snark, just waiting on Spike :) @Cat/kat To ease my nervousness, was my pre-fight purchase of 40 arrows approved?
MotherBast 04-02-04, 06:25 PM	Pale vs. Oetzi is done. 95 rounds. Should be posted soon.
cellardweller 04-02-04, 07:00 PM	Arti, I'm still waiting on Kiowen's tactics. I have to run this fight by tomorrow at the latest so please try to get them to my within 24 hrs.
kattattack22 04-02-04, 07:14 PM	@Mag - you can have your arrows if Cat will allow it. I have no problem with us shooting at each other the whole fight :).
MotherBast 04-02-04, 07:35 PM	The fight is posted, enjoy.
Battousai2005 04-02-04, 08:02 PM	Tactics sent for Akordia and Kage. Tactics Recieved for Gyle. When I recieve Saherith's tactics, I will run the fight.
Arstimis 04-02-04, 08:05 PM	@ cellar: tactics sent
Jindl 04-02-04, 08:22 PM	Tactics recieved for Donkey and Ixidor. Tactics sent for Aku. -Jindl
Kaigan 04-02-04, 09:54 PM	I have a question: If you have a masterwork item can you enchant it by just adding the enchantment price on? Example: Masterwork Longsword: 315 gp +2 enchantment: 4000 gp Can you just add the enchantment cost, or do you have to sell the sword then by it again. Another senario: MW. Mighty Comp. Longbow (2 str) 600 gp +2 enchantment 4000gp again the same question.
sshuit 04-02-04, 10:16 PM	yes and yes. sshuit Originally posted by Kaigan I have a question: If you have a masterwork item can you enchant it by just adding the enchantment price on? Example: Masterwork Longsword: 315 gp +2 enchantment: 4000 gp Can you just add the enchantment cost, or do you have to sell the sword then by it again. Another senario: MW. Mighty Comp. Longbow (2 str) 600 gp +2 enchantment 4000gp again the same question.
Battousai2005 04-03-04, 12:00 AM	Questions: 1: I have a friend who insists that it is possible to make an attack of opp. with a bow as long as the character wielding it is involved in point blank combat with the character who is provoking the att of opp. Is this right?!?! 2: As there are no rules for time in the arena, what would a desiese do to someone here? 3: Last question. If a character has a level adjustment, but no mention of character creation or racial HD, does that mean the LA is the base adjustment in the areana? Gacias, Gratis, and much thanks!
kedi 04-03-04, 12:50 AM	I have a question: I'm planning to cast permanent mage armor, bear's endurance and strength. Now, I looked all over the srd but couldn't find the prices for it. Can you help me with it? @Battousai2005: 1. As much as I know, your friend is right. 2. Dunno. They'd count as buffs I guess. 3. Use just the LA.
SnarkHunter 04-03-04, 12:58 AM	1. Your friend=crazy. Or as my psych text book informs me, "is clearly repressing a deep felt fixation from the oral stage of development. Without achieving transferance to the therapist the subjects regressing is likely to continue until the ego is wholy subsumed." There's a prestige class (peerless archer) in silver marches that lets you treat a ranged weapon as a melee weapon with 10ft reach at 7th level. That is all. 2. I would presume it would be healed at the end of the fight like other permanent effect (curses blindness/deafness) have been. 3. I think so yes. Did you have an example in mind? @Kedi the price isn't there because you can not. It is possible to get a mage armor as a prebuff but only by extending its duration to 16 hours. Since bear's and bull's have a duration in minutes this is obviously not feasable. Basicly the only permanent spells you can get cast are those mentioned under the permancy spell. Otherwise you have to actually buy the item.
Caterane 04-03-04, 01:38 AM	@Cat/kat To ease my nervousness, was my pre-fight purchase of 40 arrows approved? Oh sorry, don`t want you to be nervous. Of course I allowed it but since you lost it didn`t matter :P All my fights are done, writing the story now. I took over the fight from Marketshare: Drak'something vs Angosh. Cat Quick question: Darkness spell, if you cast it upon yourself do you suffer the miss chance against creatures outside the darkness area? The spells says "creatures within the radius gain concealment" so is vision towards outside objects hampered or not? If this is true, then what the deal with blur? Darkness is better, longer, and cheaper.
xeno_eleusis 04-03-04, 03:41 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 3: Last question. If a character has a level adjustment, but no mention of character creation or racial HD, does that mean the LA is the base adjustment in the areana? Gacias, Gratis, and much thanks! Originally posted by kedi 3. Use just the LA. Originally posted by SnarkHunter 3. I think so yes. Did you have an example in mind? @SnarkHunter, Now I'm curious about this LA racial HD thing. Check out this build, Reagar the Bugbear (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=108). This can't possibly be right, he looks way too overpowered for ECL2 and my understanding about LA is that it's a penalty, in this case it looks like a reward. Not really my style of build, but look he gets two feats just like humans and 3d8 racial HD at level 1.
kattattack22 04-03-04, 05:39 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Quick question: Darkness spell, if you cast it upon yourself do you suffer the miss chance against creatures outside the darkness area? The spells says "creatures within the radius gain concealment" so is vision towards outside objects hampered or not? If this is true, then what the deal with blur? Darkness is better, longer, and cheaper. Considering that the person inside the Darkness can't see clearly without dispelling it, I would say yes they do suffer the concelment miss chance against their opponent. From 3.5 SRD Darkness Evocation [Darkness] Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Object touched Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance). Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area shrouded in magical darkness. Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness. If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed. Darkness counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level. Arcane Material Component: A bit of bat fur and either a drop of pitch or a piece of coal. Darkness isn't a better blur because of the reason above and it requires verbal and material or divine focus components and Blur only has verbal compontents making it a good choice for fighter/wiz, fighter/sorc, paladin/sorc, paladin/wiz, etc.
Caterane 04-03-04, 07:14 AM	Fights done, all three. Heck I still have a fourth one but that`ll be done tomorow or monday. Enjoy Keeg vs Matai, Ony vs Toreilison, Dusk vs Corinthus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3031608#post3031608)
Limit 04-03-04, 09:34 AM	@xeno: From the CoCo FAQ: "Remember: ECL = HD (racial and class levels) + LA" So that bugbear build would be +1 LA +3 Racial HD +1 Class HD = 5. The bugbear is using the racial HD, as noted in the Hit Points line, so his current ECL is five.
Caterane 04-03-04, 09:38 AM	I already PM'd him that. He also hasn`t enough credits to play him. He has currently 1 but needs 6. Also, the barbarian level drops out because the bugbear already has racial HD. Same with the new drow. Kazzargoth, drop out 1 level, either Ftr or Brb.
Hatzinger 04-03-04, 10:14 AM	@Captain Mutilate, @Kedi, STILL waiting for your tactics... i´ll run the fight without tactics if you don´t send any.
Ethendril 04-03-04, 10:22 AM	@Cat: Good job on the fight. I enjoyed the story. [I should have gone with my other plan, though.]
Arstimis 04-03-04, 10:38 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger @Captain Mutilate, @Kedi, STILL waiting for your tactics... i´ll run the fight without tactics if you don´t send any. @Hat: I remember kedi saying he just wanted you to use his default tactics @Rosella: Still waiting on tactics for shadow
TaggIIV 04-03-04, 11:23 AM	@Captain Mutilate: where are you? --- question: if for some reason tactics didnt go through but you never knew because pitlord didnt respond do you get to send them to someone else? or if the pitlord doesnt show up and your tactics are lost in their PM box..
kedi 04-03-04, 11:56 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger @Captain Mutilate, @Kedi, STILL waiting for your tactics... i´ll run the fight without tactics if you don´t send any. :confused: I already told that I'd be using default tactics. Check the previous page. @Cat: I was expecting another fight to mod so I'd get a + :rolleyes: I can at least mod a fight once a week. (need to bring on more archons, outsiders, good, exalty, sweeet candy [/homer] :D)
Jindl 04-03-04, 12:02 PM	Originally posted by kedi @Cat: I was expecting another fight to mod so I'd get a + :rolleyes: I can at least mod a fight once a week. (need to bring on more archons, outsiders, good, exalty, sweeet candy [/homer] :D) I do the pairings, not Cat. I'll make sure you get a fight next week. -Jindl Big stupid ogre vs a little kitty cat - posted.
Caterane 04-03-04, 01:58 PM	Very funny Jindl Donkey is at 4 hp, I`m at 34. He needs two 20's in a row to finish me, ha and he rolls it. What a luck, eh?
Druid Roxors 04-03-04, 02:28 PM	@ Cat: Great fights and stories! I just think that was a crude story for the poor children... :mymy:
Tellish_of_Ket 04-03-04, 02:28 PM	Well Cat, you'll soon have company in the double-20 category. I'll post the fight after work, but someone else also died to double crits. Or at least, it was the most contributing factor. And yes, both 20's i rolled were back to back and both crits confirmed. -ToK
xeno_eleusis 04-03-04, 02:42 PM	Originally posted by Caterane I already PM'd him that. He also hasn`t enough credits to play him. He has currently 1 but needs 6. Also, the barbarian level drops out because the bugbear already has racial HD. Same with the new drow. Kazzargoth, drop out 1 level, either Ftr or Brb. @Cat, thanks, I really didn't understand the whole racial HD thing, now I think I get it. For example: Reagar the Bugbear (he's now an Orc) Bbn1, 1d12; LA+1; HD 3d8, CL4, ECL5 Donkey the Ogre Clr1, 1d8; LA+2;HD: 4d8, CL:5, ECL:7 ** edit 1d8 for cleric I see now. Don't worry, I don't plan on playing Reagar anytime soon, I am trying to come up with a new build, maybe something on a warhorse. Mounts and companions are gross.
kattattack22 04-03-04, 03:51 PM	@Cat - Great fight. I finally was able to prevent someone from sundering my weapons, yay!
Aramil Dunskar 04-03-04, 04:12 PM	@Tellish, Cellardweller, I have pm'd both of you about my character changes and my strat, since I don't know either of your emails I did it in a PM, hope there is nothing wrong with that. -AD
TaggIIV 04-03-04, 10:18 PM	Originally posted by Captain Mutilate When using a weapon that is meant to be used two-handed, you only apply your str mod to it, I think. So that's what I did for the battle. It didn't affect the outcome at any rate. Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon. copied from the 3.5 SRD on this page (http://3.5srd.com/web/sovelior_sage_srd/Sovelior%20SRD/weapons.html) that aside.. *does a lil dance then goes to spend some money*
Battousai2005 04-03-04, 11:15 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter I think so yes. Did you have an example in mind? Actually, yah. The example I was thinking of will remain a secret as I want to use it without copying. (you understand, right?) For intents and purposes, I'll use a djinni. It has LA +6, but there is not mention of how to make one into a character, although I'm sure its possible. What do you do if you want to turn one into a character?!?! Hey, no tactics for Saherith, Raeph. I really, really dont want to mod another non-fight(aka forefit). It makes me feel kinda cheep. Well, thats all I wanted to say.
kedi 04-03-04, 11:45 PM	I was thinking: an Outsider build type: Outsider (Lawful, Good, Extraplanar, Exalted, (Angel or Archon) Either (1)one outsider level and a cleric or paladin level or (2)two outsider levels. 1. Is this legal? 2. I couldn't find the subtype devil or demon on the SRD (want to make a evil twin effect :)) If you know where it is, I'd be glad. @Aramil: mails of the mods are in the first page of gladiators thread. Click on the name of a pitlord and an e-mail screen will pop-up. Just edit the (at) to @ @jindl: thx! :bow: @hatzinger: Guess CM won't be using tactics. (yeee ha! :D) EDIT: Found the prices for spell casting. I wonder if resistence stacks with another resistance... The silent blade has spoke!
Mercy 04-03-04, 11:50 PM	Pard vs. Kage posted
Alterlat 04-04-04, 12:56 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Actually, yah. The example I was thinking of will remain a secret as I want to use it without copying. (you understand, right?) For intents and purposes, I'll use a djinni. It has LA +6, but there is not mention of how to make one into a character, although I'm sure its possible. What do you do if you want to turn one into a character?!?! Hey, no tactics for Saherith, Raeph. I really, really dont want to mod another non-fight(aka forefit). It makes me feel kinda cheep. Well, thats all I wanted to say. He has default tactics, so it can't be a total forfeit.
Magagumo 04-04-04, 01:19 AM	Note on Darkness, you do ot suffer the 20% miss chance from firing out of it. It does not function like a fog spell (which creates concelament due to distance) but rather creates an area into which it is hard to see. To explain: Imagine you are on a dark street, under a bright streetlamp. To you, the rest of the world (beyond the light radius) is dark, shadowy, and filled with miss chances ;). Meanwhile, to anyone else, within the light or within the darkness, you are well-illuminated, making it easy to target your vital spots. Make sense? Now pretend the world is well-lit and the spotlight creates shadowy darkness, that is how the spell works. Anyone within the darkness (say someone who is meleeing Tori) gains the 20% miss chance to hit her, or for her to hit them. Anyone outside the shadowy "spotlight" gains no such protection, and has a miss chance to hit her, but she is not likewise inhibited. Hope that clears things up, because it is a beautiful spell, and we all know I will be using it in the future. Blur and Darkness are both good (good spot on the Verbal only, kat, I never see those things :)), as blur can not be negated easily (True Seeing.. hate it so much....SNARK! :-P), while daylight disrupts darkness. However, Blur lasts rounds, while Darkness lasts 10 min... both are excellent representatives of 2nd level spells :)
Rozman 04-04-04, 01:54 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Questions: 1: I have a friend who insists that it is possible to make an attack of opp. with a bow as long as the character wielding it is involved in point blank combat with the character who is provoking the att of opp. Is this right?!?! You have to threaten a square in order to make an AOO. If you are wielding a missile weapon, you threaten no squares. Therefore, no AOO. EDIT: Fixed stupid typo.
Rozman 04-04-04, 03:01 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Quick question: Darkness spell, if you cast it upon yourself do you suffer the miss chance against creatures outside the darkness area? The spells says "creatures within the radius gain concealment" so is vision towards outside objects hampered or not? If you are in the Darkness and your opponent is not, then you have no miss chance on him, but he has a miss chance on you. But Blur is still generally better for several reasons. A few have been posted above (V only component, harder to penetrate) as well as: If your opponent moves into the Darkness with you, you both have 20% miss chance. Blur is always just your opponent. If you're using a melee weapon, you can only set up the pretty scenario above in very specific situations. If you've cast it on an item you're carrying, you would need 25' reach to benefit. For ranged fighters of course, this is less of an issue.
kattattack22 04-04-04, 05:13 AM	Ok, for those talking about Darkness, there is one problem with your interpretation. From 3.5 SRD Entry on Darkness Spell This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. Meaning the 20' ft area is filled with shadowy darkness. From 3.5 SRD Entry on Darkness Spell Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area shrouded in magical darkness. Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. It's hard to see through those shadows and nothing helps. If you have 20' of shadowy darkness in obscuring your vision on the target I do believe your opponent gets the concealment as well. (Tust me, my first arena character was a teifling and I love to ambush PC's using this spell as a DM. I've looked over Darkness many times.)
MotherBast 04-04-04, 09:22 AM	Hey, yall remember when we were discussing using Mounted Combat feat while flat-footed. The whole, "you have to be aware of the attact to use the feat" discussion? Well, I was just reading through my Sword and Fist, and in the mounted combat example on page 65, it gives the example of a ranger shooting a Pally's mount on the first turn. Since the Pally was FF, he couldn't use the feat, according to SaF. I don't remember which way we decided to do this in the arena, but I think we were alowing Ride checks even if the rider was FF. This might change the way we do things.
Jindl 04-04-04, 09:43 AM	Originally posted by MotherBast Hey, yall remember when we were discussing using Mounted Combat feat while flat-footed. The whole, "you have to be aware of the attact to use the feat" discussion? Well, I was just reading through my Sword and Fist, and in the mounted combat example on page 65, it gives the example of a ranger shooting a Pally's mount on the first turn. Since the Pally was FF, he couldn't use the feat, according to SaF. I don't remember which way we decided to do this in the arena, but I think we were alowing Ride checks even if the rider was FF. This might change the way we do things. Interesting. But, I'm not sure if this would apply, since Sword and Fist was 3.0 (and way back in the early, messed up stages of 3.0). -Jindl
Jindl 04-04-04, 09:53 AM	Re: Darkness As near as I can tell, Magagumo has stated it correctly. The spell says "Creatures within the radius gain concealment". It doesn't list the same kind of instructions as obscurring mist, and I do not think creatures outside the radius have concealment. Mag's analogy explains this very well. The darkness spell creates the same kind of illumination that occurs outside of the immediate radius of a torch. And no DM has ever rolled a miss chance to hit my character (who happened to be carrying the torch) when a monster attacked from the shadows. Personally, I think the drow make the best use of darkness, especially when they combine it with their other innate ability to create faerie fire. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 04-04-04, 10:05 AM	Done and posted. -ToK
Aramil Dunskar 04-04-04, 12:06 PM	Am I allowed to make teh appropriate changes to my character now that the battle is over? Oh btw, how do you know if you have leveled up?
Tellish_of_Ket 04-04-04, 12:11 PM	Aiki vs Zephin done. Aramil vs Shiaan done. @Aramil: if you win a fight, you level. And yes you are allowed to now make the changes to your character. Add your level, purchase new equipment with your gold and mark him ready for the 7th when you're done. -ToK
Battousai2005 04-04-04, 12:11 PM	Originally posted by Alterlat He has default tactics, so it can't be a total forfeit. Ah, yes. Missed those. Well, fight should be up soon.
Druid Roxors 04-04-04, 04:08 PM	Jo'Li Vs Acordia Posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3042018#post3042018) Unexpected fight really, let me know if there is anything wrong with it.
Hatzinger 04-04-04, 04:45 PM	Dante Ironfist, Captain Mutilate vs Mete da Kaðan Han, Kedi the fight is posted. lasted 39 rounds.
Battousai2005 04-04-04, 04:57 PM	Gyle vs. Saherith here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3042297#post3042297)
Battousai2005 04-04-04, 05:05 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Actually, yah. The example I was thinking of will remain a secret as I want to use it without copying. (you understand, right?) For intents and purposes, I'll use a djinni. It has LA +6, but there is not mention of how to make one into a character, although I'm sure its possible. What do you do if you want to turn one into a character?!?! Oh great and almighty elder mods(oh yes. total kiss up.) what is thou decision. Ok, seriously. I have a character that I want to try, but I dunno how to work this out. Oh, btw, I would like to request 2 fights this week. Thnx
SnarkHunter 04-04-04, 06:19 PM	Ok lets see if I can do this quick, I need ot get to mass soon. With the Dijjn. 1st off it as you noted it has has 7 hit dice and a LA of 6. This makes its effective character level (and where it would enter the roster) 13. Along with Jindl and Harvester and Bilo and all the other fun residents. Notice that this is with no class levels. YOu would need to bump him up 11 ranks therefor which would require 33 credits. Just so you know what your getting into ;). For that you would get: Movement: fly 60ft perfect AC: +3 natural armor Base attack +7 Large size All the special attacks, spell like abilities, and Special qualities though any saves would be adjusted higher or lower with different stats. All good saves +8str, +8dex, +4con, +4 int, +4wis, +4cha to whatever you assign to those stats. All skills listed as class skills 3 feat slots plus Improved Initiative as a bonus feat And whatever cash is appropriate to 13th level. Make sense?
Battousai2005 04-04-04, 06:27 PM	@Snark: Thanks. Although that makes life a bit more difficult as far as gaining creds go... Challanges have been issued on the roleplay thread for my chars. Ronin vs. Samurai: Kage challanges Aiki Auk, Rayne Caster dual: Akordia challanges Heinrich, Hatzinger. Oh, and kindly remeber my request to mod two fights! Thanks.
Arstimis 04-04-04, 07:06 PM	I just had a question about a character race Is an Imp a possible choice to become a character, with the 3 racial HD of course. And if it is, would i be able to start at 3rd level with just the Racial HD?
Magagumo 04-04-04, 07:22 PM	Spiek v. Moon-moon posted.... long fight, tactics broke down early.. clarifications and advisory comments found at the end :) For this week, I'll be sticking with just Tori again. I have a paper to write, and don't want anymore creds, so no fights for me if at all possible (1 if you guys are desperate)
Ethendril 04-04-04, 07:27 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis I just had a question about a character race Is an Imp a possible choice to become a character, with the 3 racial HD of course. And if it is, would i be able to start at 3rd level with just the Racial HD? Arstimis: If a monster has a listed Level Adjustment in the Monster Manual, it is suitable for a character or cohort (unless the entry says "LA +3 (cohort)", then it is only suitable as a cohort. So if you check the MM, and it says "Level Adjustment -", you can't use it as a character or cohort. -Ethendril
Kaigan 04-04-04, 07:34 PM	@Kattattack: I've challenge Ony, look at roleplay for more details. @Jindl: I'd like to Mod a fight this week please.
Aramil Dunskar 04-04-04, 07:37 PM	@Tellish, Cellardweller: My character has been edited for the weapon and for my 3rd lvl stuff. -AD
Arstimis 04-04-04, 07:52 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Arstimis: If a monster has a listed Level Adjustment in the Monster Manual, it is suitable for a character or cohort (unless the entry says "LA +3 (cohort)", then it is only suitable as a cohort. So if you check the MM, and it says "Level Adjustment -", you can't use it as a character or cohort. -Ethendril Well, there goes that fun idea.....now i have to think of something else
TaggIIV 04-04-04, 08:25 PM	Originally posted by Aramil Dunskar @Tellish, Cellardweller: My character has been edited for the weapon and for my 3rd lvl stuff. -AD ditto. except 2nd level, not third.
kattattack22 04-04-04, 08:31 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan @Kattattack: I've challenge Ony, look at roleplay for more details. Acknowledged, see Roleplay for the response.
Arstimis 04-04-04, 10:19 PM	A Mermaid is ok for a character right..... Just remember, the arena has to be just what the character needs for spells, skills....and races :P who wants to go swimming
Alterlat 04-04-04, 10:22 PM	Hey Jindl/Cat Any luck fixing up the links in the gladiator thread? It looks like you might be able to make them work just by adding the perpage=1 command to the links that don't have it, but I'm not sure. EDIT: Artimis, have a look at this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=39) fight for some idea of what it would be like.
SnarkHunter 04-04-04, 10:27 PM	Actually The arena has had a mermaid! One of Mo's old characters. I'm sure you can the fish (as he was affectionatly known) way back in the old fights. That land speed of 5 was a killer though.
Arstimis 04-04-04, 10:49 PM	oh, hmm...its already been used Could anyone tell me what they think is the most useless race for the arena, that hasnt been used. Preferably 3 or less la+racial hd, so i can get it with 3 credits
Battousai2005 04-04-04, 11:09 PM	Mas de preguntas(sorry, I had a test in spanish not too long ago) translation=More questions: Ok, so I pay for an ECL creature with Racial HD. Do I use the given in the MM or do I max the first and then go to class HD monster manual method? Next question is does an ECL creature need class levels? Last one, really. Last but not least, someone told me that it is possible to cast a spell after taking a full move action because you can supposedly take a move action, then cast a spell. Is this right? Again, a reminder to Hatzinger and Rayne to check out my challanges and a reminder to the pitlords to remember my request to mod two fights this week. Thanks
SnarkHunter 04-05-04, 12:40 AM	Well I don't recall my spanish courses to well so I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere for that. 1st: Max first and MM method for the rest like all gladiators. 2nd: If the ECL creature has HD from its race it does not need CLass levels to start out. In fact so long as it has at least two HD you cannot give it class levels. Case in point-Donkey (4 giant HD from Ogre) fought (and lost) his first three fights with only his ogre HD and abilities. 3rd: I'm not sure what you mean by full move action; If a character with a move speed of 30 moves 30 feet, then yeah he can swing a sword or cast a spell when he gets to where he's going (but double check that the casting time of the spell is only 1 action!). If he spends the whole round moving-either witha double move or with the run action (moving 60ft and 120ft respectivly) then unless the spell has a casting time of a free action he wouldn't be able to cast it. Good luck with getting credits and fights!
Hatzinger 04-05-04, 05:30 AM	@Battousai You think that my mage would accept a challenge from a character with spell resistance? ... Well, there is only one sin: cowardice! Heinrich accepts your challenge.
Druid Roxors 04-05-04, 06:30 AM	@ Battousai: Not doing very well in spanish, i see... - Mas de preguntas = More of questions. Bad sentence structure - Mas preguntas = More questions Yes, I'm Mexican ;)
Ethendril 04-05-04, 01:56 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis oh, hmm...its already been used Could anyone tell me what they think is the most useless race for the arena, that hasnt been used. Preferably 3 or less la+racial hd, so i can get it with 3 credits Arstimis: How about one of these? Race Credits Hobgoblin 0 Fiendish 3 Celestial 3 Gnoll 3 Lizardfolk 3 Derro 3 I don't think I've seen any of them (actually, I think there may be a hobgoblin somewhere...) -Ethendril EDIT: I didn't see your comment about wanting it to be useless until now, so this list is just some cheap races for 3 or less. I actually think Lizardfolk could be pretty good, with +4 or +5 natural armor (can't remember).
Magagumo 04-05-04, 02:48 PM	@Jindl- ECL listed and money fixed @Ethendril Yea, lizardfolk make for tough fighters though humanoid hit die are rather unpleasant... the Int penalty also makes things tricky for skills.. perhaps a Barbarian? (tough to hit with the natural armor)
Caterane 04-05-04, 02:54 PM	What about a Troglodyte? +6 natural armor, +4 constitution, and stench (con-based). Favored class cleric. Now THAT will be someone tough to hit. And the dex penalty cries for an adamantine fullplate. Roleplay: Troglo heard about plenty of other Troglo's making an appearance in the arena and travels towards it. Realizes that these are only alter self wizards and decides to teach them a lesson in respect for his race. PS: I just got the Player's Guide to Faerun. Muahahahaha PPS: Harvester challenges Kiri'endelas
Ethendril 04-05-04, 02:58 PM	Originally posted by Caterane What about a Troglodyte? +6 natural armor, +4 constitution, and stench (con-based). Favored class cleric. Now THAT will be someone tough to hit. And the dex penalty cries for an adamantine fullplate. Roleplay: Troglo heard about plenty of other Troglo's making an appearance in the arena and travels to it. Realizes that these are only alter self wizards and decides to teach them a lesson in respect for his race. Yeah, Trogs would be very tough (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil...very tough to hit, although I imagine the arena stinks enough already). And it only costs 6 credits. Here are some more for 6: Half-Dragon Troglodyte Grimlock Bugbear I think there are a lot of fun races yet to appear.
Arstimis 04-05-04, 03:30 PM	I was thinking about a trog....but i didnt have enough credits so i didnt really look at it. Would i be able to take 3 negative credits and pay it back in the next few weeks
Jindl 04-05-04, 03:35 PM	Originally posted by Caterane PPS: Harvester challenges Kiri'endelas Bravo! I like it when powerful PC's challenge other powerful PC's !! Oh, and Anna challenges the winner ... -Jindl
Ethendril 04-05-04, 03:51 PM	PPS: Harvester challenges Kiri'endelas Kiri's been inactive for a bit while I consider her ultimate fate. She hasn't fought in three weeks, and likely won't for a couple more. If you are willing to wait, challenge accepted, but I'm not going to ready her this week just to accept. I'm having more fun with Dusk right now. -Ethendril
Caterane 04-05-04, 04:13 PM	Hey, what better way to set her to rest? The Harvester - the final challenge! The title of the fight could be "Knocking on Heaven's door". Story something like Jagath killed you, you decided not to return to life but pass on to whatever deity you bow to. There`s but a single obstacle between you and the heaven: the seraph of death! What a great story. Now we just have to find a good narrator! I would of course volunteer to be the pitlord :D @Jindl: I just have a bone to pick with Kiri Ethendril wrote on 04-05-04 08:56 PM: Hey Cat: I saw your challenge, and posted a reply in the tavern. By way of explanation, I'm not having much fun with Kiri. While it has been nice winning fights, the pitlords all hate it, and I hate to apologize to someone every week just for running the fight. This is supposed to be fun, and she isn't right now. Anyway, she may retire. I hate to have spent that many credits for a character I don't enjoy playing, but that's where I am right now. I'm having more fun with Dusk, so I'm concentrating on him for a few more weeks while I consider whether to bring Kiri back. -Ethendril
Ethendril 04-05-04, 04:22 PM	Cat: Not that I wrote you anything I wouldn't want posted here, but isn't it called a "Private Message" for a reason?
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 04-05-04, 04:30 PM	Hello, I am new to the Core Coliseum board (just a two weeks ago signed in to the whole WotC). So you probaly meet my car in the arean in this weeks wednesday, so "Hello" :D.
Arstimis 04-05-04, 06:54 PM	Sendril "Shadow" Knucklebat vs. Shadow (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3052690#post3052690) has been posted
Battousai2005 04-05-04, 09:34 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger @Battousai You think that my mage would accept a challenge from a character with spell resistance? ... Well, there is only one sin: cowardice! Heinrich accepts your challenge. :D :angel: :D Actually, I was looking for casters. gimme a break. Ive fought two melee combatants for the last two fights. I gotta have a go with a person I might actually beat at some point. Nice new Avatar, btw. Mind flayers rule. Now, if only rayne would respond... @Rayne: I think you sent me a PM. Unfortunatly, Wizards thinks that 2 messages is a bit much. Yes, I had two messages in my inbox and it was full. If you could resend or possibly respond, that would be great.
Kaigan 04-05-04, 09:47 PM	@Bat: its probably your PM still. There is a separate folder for messages recieved and messages sent, so go to the messages sent folder and delete all of those and you should be good to go.
sshuit 04-05-04, 10:41 PM	Well after much deliberation and thought I've decided to bid my farewells to the core arena. I have decided that the necessity of allies and the increasing trend towards non-"coreness" : ghosts, pixies, megaraptors *oh my* has limited its usefulness as a place to test "core builds" for a real campaign.... I will be retiring all my characters indefinitely and wish you all the best of luck in your escalating battle for munchkiny supremacy ;-) sshuit
Battousai2005 04-05-04, 10:55 PM	Ive just been looking at the roleplay thread and I've noticed a trend. It's where challanges tend to be issued. There is an underlying problem. You see, not everyone looks at the roleplay thread. As I'm not an elder mod, I'm not sure that I could do this, so I would like to ask one. This is my proposition (i dunno if someone thought of this before or not, but here goes.): Fairly simple really. A challange thread. That way, it is easier to look at who has challanged who. Also, everyone would check it to see if anyone has challanged them. It might even be possible to do a week-to-week challange thread, like the questions and copmlaints on fights. Anyway, just a thought. Oh, and of course, I have a question... Only one tho! Is it allowed to "disappear" from the arena. Not invisiblity. Think planeshift. Anyway, that was it!
SnarkHunter 04-05-04, 11:11 PM	@BAtt: You can leave the arena (through Rope trick, planeshift or what have you) but only for 10 (non-consecutive if thats what you want) rounds. Then you lose.
SnarkHunter 04-05-04, 11:17 PM	Damn dirty double post.
Battousai2005 04-05-04, 11:18 PM	@Snark: Ah, thanks. @Everyone(mostly elder mods):What about the whole challanges thread idea. Dunno. Seemed like a good idea.
Battousai2005 04-05-04, 11:21 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ Battousai: Not doing very well in spanish, i see... - Mas de preguntas = More of questions. Bad sentence structure - Mas preguntas = More questions Yes, I'm Mexican ;) A C, actually. It could be becuase I have a teacher who has not taught the subject in, oh, 15 years or so. And did I mention he has admitted he does not want to teach? Oh yes. Fun:sad:
Rosella 04-06-04, 03:55 AM	Both Sendril & Ilene are MiA, as of now, they are not to be scheduled in any roster fights. The reason for this is simple; time. It requires too much of my time to update them and devise tactics. I've enjoyed my time here and I might return upon more quieter periods, but right now I have to concentrate on my upcoming tests. Hope to see ya later!
Hatzinger 04-06-04, 07:14 AM	@Arstimis Oetzi challenges Kiowen Civasion. (Don´t want to fight Grim Mordyb for the 3rd time)
Myrridin 04-06-04, 09:59 AM	I'd like to be added back in as a mod this week. I'd like only 1 fight, but if you need me to, I'll run 2 fights. To chime in on the challenges thing, are they now going to take precedence over making sure that everyone's getting a fair chance at being paired up?
Jindl 04-06-04, 10:19 AM	How to properly institute a challenge 1. Notify the opponent you wish to challenge. This can be done in several ways: 1 - Post a challenge on the RP thread. 2 - Post the challenge in the Tavern. 3 - Send an email or a PM to the opponent. Feel free to do more than one of the above in order to issue your challenge. 2. Post any relevant RP on the RP thread (for example: Dusk and his hatred of Kobolds.) 3. Change the subject line of your character sheet to read "Ready for ??/?? - Challenges ?????" (Fill in the ?'s as appropriate.) If your opponent accepts the challenge, then they should also change the subject line of their sheet to read "Ready for ??/?? - Accepts challenge from ?????" (Again, fill in the ?'s as appropriate.) Re: Seperate Challenge Thread Challenges is what the RP thread was created for. It is the primary place to list challenges. Other RP (like the exploits of Kage, Pard, Sarah, and Akordia) can also be posted there, but realize that it is the primary place for challenges. See above for other methods of issueing a challenge. Priority of challenges in pairings For fairness, I resolve any issues with oddness in a level. That means I will make sure we have an even number of characters first. This may require a doesn't fight roll, or just someone sitting out because they have the highest number of active PC's. Once the level has been made into an even number of characters, then I match-up any valid challenges. By valid, I mean that the challenging character wrote his challenge in the subject line of his character sheet, and the challenged character wrote his acceptance in the subject line of his character sheet (see above). If this is the case, then I pair the two characters. After matching-up valid challenges, then I randomly roll all the other pairings. Note: There may be rare exceptions to this to prevent two characters of the same player from fighting each other, or to prevent repeated rematches between two characters. In such exceptions, I list the reason for the change as part of the pairings. If there are any questions about the above, let me know. -Jindl
Jindl 04-06-04, 10:20 AM	@sshuit and Rosella - Sorry to see you guys go. Please check in with us from time to time (especially you sshuit, as the issue you are concerned with are going to undergo some revision in the future.) -Jindl
Market_Share 04-06-04, 12:59 PM	Spike's gone to take a nap. His replacement is on the same link as Spike was. And guess what? He's a NON-ECL dude. Just a regular average Joe, baby. For now at least. He will return eventually. SPIKE
Jindl 04-06-04, 01:33 PM	That really bums me out. I was looking forward to having Jindl challenge Spike to a melee battle (once the level 13's came back.) Ah well ... on to news: Re: New Pitlords We appreciate those of you who want to become a pitlord. There will be a couple of restrictions placed on new pitlords. Here they are: 1. Before becoming a pitlord, you must have an active PC for 2 weeks. This gives you a chance to be a part of 2 fights, and to experience a little of the collosseum before becoming a judge. 2. New pitlords should read old fights (I suggest pages 2-10) on the fight thread. By looking at the old fights, you'll hopefully learn from the errors that previous pitlords made. 3. New pitlords should post their fights in a format similar to that used by Tellish, Jindl, Caterane, or MotherBast. There is a standard format for fights, and these pitlords tend to stick to it. It is even more important as a new pitlord to follow the standard format, so that it is easy for others of us to read. This will make it easier for use to provide constructive criticism, to hopefully improve your abilities as a pitlord. @Captain Mutilate, TargIIV, and any other new pitlords, we do welcome you aboard, please try to do the things I posted above. -Jindl
Magagumo 04-06-04, 02:24 PM	@sshuit et Rosella Echoing Jindl, I wish you luck on your respective ventures (academic or otherwise) and hope to see you again when time or personal feelings permit, you've both been fine additions to our group. @Jindl So I'm one of those non-standard mods, aye Jindl? ^_^ I suppose it would be me not listing round-by-round tactics.. but that''s laziness for you. (Compliments to whoever decided to list the ending time for spells, rather than track their progress per round, that little bit saved me 30 min or more in a long SPike v. Moon-moon fight). Ah well, its good to be unique I says. Toreilison is all set for this week (if she doesn't roll out) and I will devote my standard Pitbossing time to writing fun, fun papers ;) Till then *ninja vanish*
Arstimis 04-06-04, 02:46 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger @Arstimis Oetzi challenges Kiowen Civasion. (Don´t want to fight Grim Mordyb for the 3rd time) Challange excepted, although i dont know if it will happen because of fairness. We will see what Jindl does
Limit 04-06-04, 05:36 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan I have a question: If you have a masterwork item can you enchant it by just adding the enchantment price on? Example: Masterwork Longsword: 315 gp +2 enchantment: 4000 gp Can you just add the enchantment cost, or do you have to sell the sword then by it again. Another senario: MW. Mighty Comp. Longbow (2 str) 600 gp +2 enchantment 4000gp again the same question. I apologize if I'm missing the obvious answer, but I've read the FAQ section regarding enchanting items mutiple times and I'm just not certain. I know the answers to these questions were yes, but how does it work for people who don't enchat their own weapons, and instead just buy them? For example, could I buy a masterwork dagger now for the 302gp, and then later pay 2kgp to boost it up to +1? If so, can I later pay 6kgp to bring it up to a +2 weapon?
Ethendril 04-06-04, 05:40 PM	Originally posted by Limit I apologize if I'm missing the obvious answer, but I've read the FAQ section regarding enchanting items mutiple times and I'm just not certain. I know the answers to these questions were yes, but how does it work for people who don't enchat their own weapons, and instead just buy them? For example, could I buy a masterwork dagger now for the 302gp, and then later pay 2kgp to boost it up to +1? If so, can I later pay 6kgp to bring it up to a +2 weapon? Limit: Your example was right on. That's exactly how you do it. Buy the MW dagger, then pay 2k, then 6k, then...
Kaigan 04-06-04, 08:34 PM	@Limit: It's like you are paying someone else to put the enchantment on.
Battousai2005 04-06-04, 09:17 PM	I will be posting Kage inactive this week. I've got a caster dual and (hopefully) two fights to mod. That, and I cannot challange Aiki Auk this week. Kindly refrain from challanging him.
cellardweller 04-06-04, 09:24 PM	Lance has been offered a lucrative tenure as the personal scribe for Khelben "Blackstaff" decided to persue the opportunity. Katarina Talyana rented his room in the Temple of the Cellar Dweller.
Mercy 04-06-04, 09:26 PM	Pillar Dancing: according to the PHB on page 147 "A creature or character can't move diagonally past a corner. It costs a Small or Medium creature only 2 squares [10 feet] to move around a corner, while a large creature has to use 3 squares [15 feet] of movement to move around a corner." I know in a couple of the fights I Pitlorded, I didn't follow this rule. We might need to discuss if using a diagonal step can be used to move round the columns and rocks. I can see the case where we can if the columns and rocks are round. Readying: I've noticed in more then one set of tactics that the character specifies more then one trigger action, we should only be specifying one trigger action. I think the most liberal trigger action would be the "upon movement of <insert opponent name>" trigger action. This would cover movement from his square, movement of a limb for a Somatic component, and even possibly movement of a mouth for a Verbal component. If you ready to attack on spell casting, would a Silent, Stilled spell trigger the readied action?
Druid Roxors 04-06-04, 09:56 PM	This topic was discussed when I Modded a fight with Dominicus, a character by Tellish of ket. Yes, diagonal movement is not allowed across an obstruction. He used a different set of movements and triggers. Check the fight and its discussion for more information. Readying actions must be liberal. A reasonably short trigger must be supplied but it may be complex. "Any type of movement or attack" is a good trigger, as is "Any type of ranged attack, be it magical or otherwise AND drinking a potion". If you are talking about taking several readied actions in a turn, it is perfeclty legal, as you can ready free, move, and standard actions separately. Readying on spellcasting can be done only if you can identify the spell being cast. If the enemy casts a silent powerword blind you cannot interrupt the spell but you may release your action when you find out you resisted (or not) the spell itself, thus not interrupting it. Should you have a spell like arcane Eye or analyze Deomer, I believe you could see each time someone is invoking a magical effect.
Jindl 04-07-04, 12:16 AM	Re: Movement around corners - Yes, I thought that was how it was being done? You can't diagonal past any obstacle in the arena. Re: Readied action triggers - The triggering event for a readied action must be something that the character can sense. If your character has a method for sensing a silent/stilled spell (perhaps he has arcane sight running), then he can sense the trigger occuring and his readied action goes off. If he can't sense the triggering condition, then it cannot trigger the readied action. Readied actions can be dropped only on the character's normal initiative (as a free action). You cannot gain a "delay action" effect by readying and then dropping at a new initiative. -Jindl @JonahBlack - Excellent job on the RP post for the challenge between Aku and Grimlock :D
Druid Roxors 04-07-04, 02:26 AM	@ Jindl: Yes you can, If you can word it correctly. Upon a "spell cast or spellcasting" should do the trick. If i missed the components and recieved the fireball, my action still triggers but will not interrupt him.
Tellish_of_Ket 04-07-04, 06:09 AM	Provoking when casting: It's important to note that it's not the somatic components of a spell that causes you to suffer an AoO while threatened, but the "letting your guard down". The components, or lack thereof, have nothing to do with provoking while casting. Simply "the action of casting" provokes. That is the same reason why spell-like abilities provoke despite not having any components (for the most part). Casting a stilled spell while being threatened doesn't negate the AoO. You are distracting yourself from the immediate threat, greataxe weilding orcish barbarian, to invoke the arcane. -ToK
Jindl 04-07-04, 10:08 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ Jindl: Yes you can, If you can word it correctly. Upon a "spell cast or spellcasting" should do the trick. If i missed the components and recieved the fireball, my action still triggers but will not interrupt him. Druid, you and I are saying the same thing. To trigger the readied action, the character must be able to sense the triggering condition. If the triggering condition is "He casts a spell on me" and you don't sense the spell being cast, but you do sense the fireball exploding, then the action is triggered when you sense the fireball. Now, here's a question: In your fireball example, what if your readied action was to cast Resist Energy (Fire). Would your readied spell occur before the fireball damage (and thus protect you from the flames)? Is there a difference between the fireball being a normal spell, or being a quickened spell? -Jindl
SnarkHunter 04-07-04, 10:52 AM	Well I really have no idea. But anyway Jindl are the pairings going to be today?
PostalBoy 04-07-04, 10:54 AM	Keeg Ofinni is ready for pairings on 4/07
kedi 04-07-04, 11:06 AM	well, mods, kedi of the silent blade has 3 loses. He wants his rightful bump!
Jindl 04-07-04, 11:21 AM	@Kedi - I'll move him to 3rd level on the roster now. Make sure you set him "Ready for 4/7" if you want me to pair him. Pairings in 2 hours. Set your characters "Ready for 4/7". -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 04-07-04, 01:42 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Now, here's a question: In your fireball example, what if your readied action was to cast Resist Energy (Fire). Would your readied spell occur before the fireball damage (and thus protect you from the flames)? Is there a difference between the fireball being a normal spell, or being a quickened spell? -Jindl No, the resist energy would not protect you from his/her fireball in this question, but you would still go before him in the next round. The action you are describing is to be cast "after the fact". If you spellcrafted he was casting fireball and then cast the resist energy fire you would, obviously, be protected. But not after. There is no difference between a quickened fireball and a normal fireball other than casting time. It can still be spellcrafted and your readied action to cast resist energy fire would work if you did actually spellcraft it. Also the readied action "counterspelling" works just fine. Say you have fireball mem'd and you want to ready to counterspell your opponent. Your opponent casts a quickened-fireball (which you spellcraft btw. DC 22) you may counterspell it with just your fireball. Same with any other meta-magic. If you cast chain-empowered enervation, it may be counterspelled with just enervation. -ToK
Druid Roxors 04-07-04, 02:04 PM	Your readied action would occur at the time the fireball is exploding. By then, you recieved damage already, but the point is that correct wording can save you an action that would be otherwise completely wasted.
Aramil Dunskar 04-07-04, 03:32 PM	Just wondering, but why do I still have a violation label next to my name in the Gladiators thread? (first page)
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 04-07-04, 04:16 PM	My char is ready for pairing :).
Jindl 04-07-04, 04:20 PM	Originally posted by Aramil Dunskar Just wondering, but why do I still have a violation label next to my name in the Gladiators thread? (first page) @Aramil - Please check the violations thread. I posted the errors on your character sheet there. -Jindl
kedi 04-07-04, 05:02 PM	Can I get 3> fights this week? Thinking that I have a lot of free time this week....
Arstimis 04-07-04, 06:08 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Pairings in 2 hours. Set your characters "Ready for 4/7". -Jindl Is there a problem Jindl...its been like 7 hours.....just wondering
Pitlords 04-07-04, 06:42 PM	No problem. Pairings under way. No more editing of character sheets. ************************ Pairings are Done. 1. Send tactics to your pitlord by Friday. 2. Pitlords may run fights with tactics on Friday. 3. Pitlords may run fights with default tactics on Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. Good Luck! -Jindl
kattattack22 04-07-04, 10:43 PM	Ony's tatics sent to Batousai2005.
TaggIIV 04-07-04, 11:13 PM	tactics for Sharptooth sent super early to Arstimis over PM
daemones 04-08-04, 01:56 AM	Have a new character worked up but not yet posted; working on the default strat. 2 questions: Can you use the "Share Spells" special ability of an ally to share spells cast from scrolls? Do mounts trained to attack get attacks of opportunity? Thanks!
SnarkHunter 04-08-04, 02:23 AM	1. No (or at least the last time I brought this up the answer was no.) 2. Yes (or at least I see no reason why not.)
Arstimis 04-08-04, 04:05 AM	Originally posted by TaggIIV tactics for Sharptooth sent super early to Arstimis over PM Tactics Recieved
Pittbull 04-08-04, 08:13 AM	Hmpf! So, I have to wait for one week, to get a fight for Angosh. He challanges the loser of Archangel Ixidor, Caterane vs Toreilison Wevlun, Magagumo-fight!!!!!
Magagumo 04-08-04, 10:56 AM	@Snark I believe you couldn't share spells from potions (where you are treated as the caster), but I do believe you can share spells from scrolls. After all, wizards and sorcerors frequently use scrolls, and their familiars generally remain within 5' to retain the benefit.
Jindl 04-08-04, 11:26 AM	@Mag - Snark was correct. Share spells only works for spells actually cast by the wizard (or sorceror or druid or ranger or paladin or blackguard). Spells cast from magic items are not transferred through share spells, nor can they be delivered by your familiar if they are touch spells. "As if cast by the character" is not the same as "Spells cast by the character". -Jindl
kedi 04-08-04, 11:35 AM	I will use default Tactics. Waits for tactics.
daemones 04-08-04, 11:40 AM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter 1. No (or at least the last time I brought this up the answer was no.) 2. Yes (or at least I see no reason why not.) One out of two's not bad. :) Thanks!
Myrridin 04-08-04, 12:33 PM	ToK: Tactics for Zephin have been sent.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 04-08-04, 03:18 PM	Tactics for Kazeira Daek'Haert sended to Arstimis over Email.
Ethendril 04-08-04, 04:13 PM	Tellish: Tactics sent for Dusk.
Magagumo 04-08-04, 04:17 PM	Shucks, poor Tommy ;) (Woo will be returning to the arena when Bruno starts fighting again. What mischief can a familiar of a 13th level wizard cause? Let's start with an AC of 24 :D)
Arstimis 04-08-04, 05:07 PM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Tactics for Kazeira Daek'Haert sended to Arstimis over Email. Tactics recieved, email reply sent
Magagumo 04-08-04, 05:17 PM	Shucks, poor Tommy ;) (Woo will be returning to the arena when Bruno starts fighting again. What mischief can a familiar of a 13th level wizard cause? Let's start with an AC of 24 :D)
Mercy 04-08-04, 07:05 PM	@Myrridin - Tactics sent for Jo'Li
Nivek Loneshadow 04-08-04, 08:00 PM	Hello everyone. I was just wondering why I wasn't paired this week? and I've been moved to inactive. I readied on time. Thanks for the info. Nivek (char sheet pg 3 - near middle)
Jindl 04-08-04, 08:17 PM	@Nivek - You were moved inactive because it had been 2 weeks since your last editing of the sheet (on Tuesday when I managed the roster.) If your character is ever put on the inactive list, simply post here and I will move your character back onto the active list. Since we have an odd # at 3rd level, I will pair you and Aramil against each other. Any volunteers for who wants to mod that fight? -Jindl
Nivek Loneshadow 04-08-04, 08:20 PM	Jindl, Thank you. Nivek
Nivek Loneshadow 04-08-04, 09:56 PM	Tactics ready. Who wants them? I'll send on friday since I don't know yet. Please feel free to PM me for them. Thank you, Nivek
Limit 04-08-04, 10:22 PM	@Battousai2005: Tactics just sent for The Voiceless.
Battousai2005 04-08-04, 10:27 PM	Tactics have been recieved for Ony and the Voiceless. Now if the others would get their butts in line, I could run the fights before I have to leave...
Limit 04-08-04, 10:37 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Tactics have been recieved for Ony and the Voiceless. Now if the others would get their butts in line, I could run the fights before I have to leave... Kedi posted that'll be using default tactics, so you should be set for that fight :)
Battousai2005 04-08-04, 10:47 PM	Speaking of lazy butts... Tactics sent for Akordia. @Limit: didn't see that. Fight should be up soon.
Kaigan 04-09-04, 12:18 AM	@Bat: I have sent the tactics for Enilias. @Kedi: I have sent the tactics for Matei. @Market_Share: Recieved Tactics for Sven. still awaiting tactics for Katarina
LLMadCow 04-09-04, 12:57 AM	Sosenshi is ready for the arena..... Oops. I lied.
Beldin 04-09-04, 08:24 AM	@hatzinger: aemons tactics have been send
Myrridin 04-09-04, 10:18 AM	Tactics Received for Jo'li, and information about tactics for Vryk.
Kaigan 04-09-04, 10:37 AM	@ Jindl: I'll take the Nivek vs. Aramil Fight.
Hatzinger 04-09-04, 11:24 AM	@Beldin: tactics received @Arstimis: no tactics yet
Jindl 04-09-04, 11:44 AM	Originally posted by Kaigan @ Jindl: I'll take the Nivek vs. Aramil Fight. Sorry, bud. I got a PM from Caterane about 3 hours earlier, so I already assigned it to him. If you want some extra fights for next week, let me know. -Jindl
Kaigan 04-09-04, 12:05 PM	@Jindl: All right. So next week can i get two fights then?
Hatzinger 04-09-04, 12:39 PM	@Mercy: tactics sent for Heinrich (i wrote "Oetzi" in the subject line. ignore that.) @Caterane: tactics sent for Oetzi - Both tactics via email and pm.
Magagumo 04-09-04, 01:22 PM	@T_o_K Tori's tactics will be sent after I finish here at work (in about 2 hrs). No tactics recieved, and that's alright this week ^_~ Edit: The Serpent's tactics have been sent
^Rayne^ 04-09-04, 01:57 PM	Myrridin, I emailed you Vryk's tactics for this weeks fight. Rayne
barrel_master 04-09-04, 02:09 PM	How did Pale rider get listed as winning 7 times in a row? He has six as far as I know.
Kaigan 04-09-04, 02:26 PM	Sven vs. Katarina is posted. Hope there weren't too many mistakes.
Nivek Loneshadow 04-09-04, 03:49 PM	@Caterane I see your doing my fight. I E-mailed the Tactics. Thanks
Arstimis 04-09-04, 04:05 PM	@Cat: Tactics sent for Kiowen's last fight @Hat: Starting tactics now
kedi 04-09-04, 04:07 PM	Posted the Kaigan vs. Alterlat
Jindl 04-09-04, 04:07 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master How did Pale rider get listed as winning 7 times in a row? He has six as far as I know. It's a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out. We'll fix it. -Jindl
Ethendril 04-09-04, 04:17 PM	deleted
Jindl 04-09-04, 04:25 PM	@Kedi and Kaigan - Please check the "Fights of the Week" thread. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 04-09-04, 05:20 PM	Tactics sent for Donkey.
Battousai2005 04-09-04, 06:33 PM	The Voiceless vs. Mete is up. SPOILER!!! We have another unscathed winner!
MotherBast 04-09-04, 08:56 PM	Jindl? any chance I could get your tactics tonight so I can run this fight first thing tomarrow morning?
Arstimis 04-09-04, 09:00 PM	A new character Zaphod is up....will be replacing Kiowen, as he is retiring [Edit] Zaphod has entered the bar, description in roleplay thread. Fear the stench
Battousai2005 04-09-04, 10:50 PM	At the request of Limit (and my poor will against pressure. Ack! Away, you idiot crickit!) I have redone the fight. Not much has changed.
Battousai2005 04-09-04, 11:52 PM	Curious. What kind of cover does a pillar offer
kedi 04-10-04, 12:54 AM	@ Battousai2005: check the fight of the week.
Hatzinger 04-10-04, 05:48 AM	@Artstimis: tactics received
Myrridin 04-10-04, 09:26 AM	Tactics received for Vryk and Jo'Li.
SnarkHunter 04-10-04, 10:10 AM	@Batt it depends on the situation and the DM. Usualy unless tactics specify their seeking fulll cover I say partial (+4 AC).
MotherBast 04-10-04, 10:23 AM	For it to give full cover, the two gladiators must be on exactly opposit sides of the pillar or rock. for instance xxx 1P2 xxx in that example, its full cover. even if 1 and 2 are far from the pillar it is still full cover. If a line from any corner of the attacker's square can be draw to any corner of the defender's square, however, it is not full cover, and usually only provides +4 AC. In extreem cases, such as when only one line from one corner can be drawn, or multipal obsticals are between target and cover, then the cover bonus can incress to +8 for advanced cover. Under normal circumstances, however, it is just +4.
Jindl 04-10-04, 11:12 AM	Tactics recieved from Druid Roxors and MotherBast. Tactics sent for Aku, the Shapeshifting Master of Darkness!! -Jindl
Battousai2005 04-10-04, 12:00 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast For it to give full cover, the two gladiators must be on exactly opposit sides of the pillar or rock. for instance xxx 1P2 xxx in that example, its full cover. even if 1 and 2 are far from the pillar it is still full cover. If a line from any corner of the attacker's square can be draw to any corner of the defender's square, however, it is not full cover, and usually only provides +4 AC. In extreem cases, such as when only one line from one corner can be drawn, or multipal obsticals are between target and cover, then the cover bonus can incress to +8 for advanced cover. Under normal circumstances, however, it is just +4. Ok, the basic situation is that the characters both wished to specify being behind a pillar for the exact purpose of getting the AC bonus. I said 3/4 cover, but im not sure if that works.
Caterane 04-10-04, 12:13 PM	I`m back from Frankfurt. I tell you, the Nine Hells of Germany - including many succubi :D Anyway, I`m going to update the roster and everything. A pity Kiowen will retire; seems like my characters have to earn their credits again :bounce: Tactics received from Wolfgang, Master Ho, Kevin, Chris, and Tommy. Ixidor's tactics are finished and will be sent in an hour.
Battousai2005 04-10-04, 12:23 PM	Originally posted by Caterane I`m back from Frankfurt. I tell you, the Nine Hells of Germany - including many succubi :D Succubi are from the abyss. Duh.:angel:
Arstimis 04-10-04, 12:35 PM	Originally posted by Caterane I`m back from Frankfurt. I tell you, the Nine Hells of Germany - including many succubi :D Anyway, I`m going to update the roster and everything. A pity Kiowen will retire; seems like my characters have to earn their credits again :bounce: Tactics received from Wolfgang, Master Ho, Kevin, Chris, and Tommy. Ixidor's tactics are finished and will be sent in an hour. Im sure you will like Zaphod better than Kiowen...maybe. also..if you were referring to me, its Kris, not Chris
MotherBast 04-10-04, 12:37 PM	Aku, the SMOD, vs Grimlock OTBC is posted. Very short. One of those one hit kill deals. Unuasual for 8th level competition. Enjoy.
Battousai2005 04-10-04, 12:52 PM	Ony vs. Enilias is up. No story as I seem to be having bad luck with my internet at the moment... Sorry!
Caterane 04-10-04, 01:11 PM	Succubi are from the abyss. Duh. :angel: Ah right, then they surely came over from France :D @Arti: Your new character is damn cool. Can`t wait to see him fight.
Battousai2005 04-10-04, 03:53 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Ah right, then they surely came over from France :D fight. :ayyyy!: :rofl: :ayyyy!: :rofl: :ayyyy!: :tiphat:
Caterane 04-10-04, 04:16 PM	The trial of Aramil the mad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3102799#post3102799)
Captain Mutilate 04-10-04, 06:21 PM	^^^^ LMFAO! This is probably one of the funniest fights I've read so far.
Caterane 04-10-04, 06:48 PM	Ok Captain, new food: The farewell of Kiowen Civasion (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3103941#post3103941) this one`s more melodramatic
Kaigan 04-10-04, 10:01 PM	@CAT: Hey, since both of my character won, is it safe to level them up now?
barrel_master 04-10-04, 11:33 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan @CAT: Hey, since both of my character won, is it safe to level them up now? If your character wins then you can level them.
Kaigan 04-10-04, 11:38 PM	@Barrel: yeah, but i justed wanted to make sure and there was nothing wrong with the fights that my characters were in.
Arstimis 04-10-04, 11:48 PM	Sharptooth vs Kazeira Daek'Haert (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3106871#post3106871) is up. Spoiler . . . . . Someone won, and someone else died
barrel_master 04-11-04, 12:49 AM	Ha ha, when is the Jugernaut fellow going to come out?
Pitlords 04-11-04, 05:00 AM	@all: The roster got a little optical update. The reason behind this was that characters like Tellish's upcoming Juggernaut would have something like that listed 11°°°°°°°bbmm, or monster fighter Ixidor's record would look like 15mmmmmmmmmm over time. With the new arrangement the emphasize is back on the win/loss record with a reference to special occurences. - Cat
TaggIIV 04-11-04, 09:40 AM	would a mithral breastplate cost 1200gp? or more? ...and how much money do ou get from selling something?
Jindl 04-11-04, 10:15 AM	Originally posted by TaggIIV would a mithral breastplate cost 1200gp? or more? ...and how much money do ou get from selling something? 1. Check the SRD under special materials. A breastplate is medium armor, so the mithril component costs 4000 gp. Then add in the armor's base price 200 gp and your total cost is 4200 gp. Note: Armor made from special materials is automatically considered to be masterwork. 2. You may sell items for 1/2 market value. -Jindl
Battousai2005 04-11-04, 12:53 PM	So, here is a selfless question: are we going to unfreeze the 13th lev anytime soon? There are 7 gladiators at that lev. And a selfish question: I noticed that Arstimis recently created his Trog cleric by going into neg creds. Is there a limit as to how many neg creds you can have? Is there really a cap on preventing others from doing the same for ECL-x Creatures? Hint: Make x a realllllly big number.
Battousai2005 04-11-04, 01:10 PM	I just thought of this one as I was talking with Arsimis via AIM. If you want to buy a mount/ally, say a hippogriff, could you buy the egg and still use it in the arena the next week? Just curious.
Arstimis 04-11-04, 01:23 PM	Dont forget the main thing. You have to be able to train it from the egg. If you cant train it then no.
TaggIIV 04-11-04, 01:52 PM	http://www.unlimitedrpgs.com/forums/images/smiles/jammin.gif lol.. i just had to share this with people :D http://www.unlimitedrpgs.com/forums/images/smiles/Wizard.gif http://www.unlimitedrpgs.com/forums/images/smiles/greenchainsaw.gif http://www.unlimitedrpgs.com/forums/images/smiles/throwup.gif
^Rayne^ 04-11-04, 02:29 PM	Quote from Battousai2005 So, here is a selfless question: are we going to unfreeze the 13th lev anytime soon? There are 7 gladiators at that lev. Battousai2005, I believe they are waiting till there are at least 10 gladiators at this level. 7 is enough to run fights but part of the reason they held the group is that many of them were repeatedly fighting the same opponent. By putting them on hold the hope was that there would be more variety as far as competitors so that they wouldn't all have to have a third or fourth rematch. Many of the competitors like to limit the number of rematches they fight so they can really see how well their PC will do against a variety of PC types. I hope this answers your question. You shouldn't have to wait too much longer for the hold to come off of level 13 PCs.
Battousai2005 04-11-04, 04:06 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis Dont forget the main thing. You have to be able to train it from the egg. If you cant train it then no. Specify, plz. You mean pay for training or train via Handle animal
Battousai2005 04-11-04, 04:08 PM	Oh, almost forgot. Happy Easter all!!! :D :D
SnarkHunter 04-11-04, 04:08 PM	General question to the board. A series of questions actually, and you can answer all or none or some as you choose. I was considering having Bilo pursue planar binding. This involves a few fairly complicated procedures which I'll outline here. 1) If I'd like to bind a creature to my service what would I have to do? If I wanted to offer nothing but a threat of torture would that be enough? Or would I need something more substantial? 2) If I'd like to bind a creature and that creature has planeshifting abilities, would I have a round to cast dimensional anchor on them before they escaped? That is, after the creature is called and fails, would he allow a round for discussion (and bartering) or would they escape immediatly? 3) What about demanding non-combat services from these creatures? Could I bind Effreeti's and demand wishes for freedom? 4) Anything else I could do to abuse this spell ;)
Battousai2005 04-11-04, 04:16 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter General question to the board. A series of questions actually, and you can answer all or none or some as you choose. I was considering having Bilo pursue planar binding. This involves a few fairly complicated procedures which I'll outline here. 1) If I'd like to bind a creature to my service what would I have to do? If I wanted to offer nothing but a threat of torture would that be enough? Or would I need something more substantial? 2) If I'd like to bind a creature and that creature has planeshifting abilities, would I have a round to cast dimensional anchor on them before they escaped? That is, after the creature is called and fails, would he allow a round for discussion (and bartering) or would they escape immediatly? 3) What about demanding non-combat services from these creatures? Could I bind Effreeti's and demand wishes for freedom? 4) Anything else I could do to abuse this spell ;) 1: I think not. You are supposed to have to make a sacrifice of some kind. 2: Good question. Not a clue. Though I think that if you used the Magic Circle against ___ then you should be safe. I think this is mentioned in the spell. 3: The problem with binding an Effreeti would be he would twist your wishes like no other. Still, non combative services are interesting. 4: Yah. Bind a Baalor and ask him to fight for you. Or maybe a Solar and ask for his bow...
barrel_master 04-11-04, 05:22 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter General question to the board. A series of questions actually, and you can answer all or none or some as you choose. I was considering having Bilo pursue planar binding. This involves a few fairly complicated procedures which I'll outline here. 1) If I'd like to bind a creature to my service what would I have to do? If I wanted to offer nothing but a threat of torture would that be enough? Or would I need something more substantial? 2) If I'd like to bind a creature and that creature has planeshifting abilities, would I have a round to cast dimensional anchor on them before they escaped? That is, after the creature is called and fails, would he allow a round for discussion (and bartering) or would they escape immediatly? 3) What about demanding non-combat services from these creatures? Could I bind Effreeti's and demand wishes for freedom? 4) Anything else I could do to abuse this spell ;) 1) Umm... you would have to offer it something. Atleast 100gp per hd I'd say. 2) The spell discription says that the creature is traped. I don't think you need to cast dimension anchor. 3) Non-combat? Like making items? I'd say no if that was the case. 4) Well, not really an abuse but the whole use of the spell is kind of a slippery slope. We'd be making up rules for it in the arena and we'd have another 'house rule' thing. But if we were to use it, you could make a good case for having the creature keep all it's weapons like in the MM instead of having to by it weapons.
barrel_master 04-11-04, 05:34 PM	Wait a second, are people just 'upgrading' their equipment by simply paying the cost difference between say a +1 sword and a +2 sword? Aren't you supposed to sell the +1 sword then buy a brand new +2 sword? I've never seen a rule that states that you can simply pay the difference. If there is one tell me.
Arstimis 04-11-04, 05:55 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter General question to the board. A series of questions actually, and you can answer all or none or some as you choose. I was considering having Bilo pursue planar binding. This involves a few fairly complicated procedures which I'll outline here. 1) If I'd like to bind a creature to my service what would I have to do? If I wanted to offer nothing but a threat of torture would that be enough? Or would I need something more substantial? 2) If I'd like to bind a creature and that creature has planeshifting abilities, would I have a round to cast dimensional anchor on them before they escaped? That is, after the creature is called and fails, would he allow a round for discussion (and bartering) or would they escape immediatly? 3) What about demanding non-combat services from these creatures? Could I bind Effreeti's and demand wishes for freedom? 4) Anything else I could do to abuse this spell ;) I was looking to do something with this spell, but then i came to a point This is one spell that requires too much definately too much roleplay. If the wizards spell thing required too much roleplay for the arena, then this definately does.
kattattack22 04-11-04, 08:19 PM	Arkin Jozil (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2835144#post2835144) is set ready for next week. If someone could audit him it would be greatly appreciated. I will be deleting Worlen tomorrow when I am back at school. I now realize I don't like his concept and his personality doesn't suit the Arena. I am still debating on what do about a gladiator called Ony.
Magagumo 04-11-04, 08:57 PM	@Snark There's a will save involved... I do not know how Pit Bosses/lords wish to do this, but since it costs no material components or exp, I would say, eventually, your deisred creature (w/ 12 HD or less by Planar Binding) would eventually fail the save (we give people unlimited time between battles), but they also get a chance to break free everyday. Given all the work required, I would advise against the spell, as there is the matter of the out of game Will save (which could incur a 20), the need to hold the creature for the many days till the fight (you can retry to catch one each day, but you have to hold them, and you're risking a lot by casting it the day of or just before, as there's that pesky Will save). The creature can force you to beat SR, which may not always be a huge issue, but Bilo doesn't have Spell Penetration, and his caster level isn't maxed. It also can make Charisma checks to break free, and Bilo has a DC 14+1/2 his caster level, so it might get out, depending. Finally, the Elder Mods would need to dictate the Charsima check you'd need to make to force the creature to do your bidding, and then there's the disagreement over the nature of the bribe and the fact that forcing a creature to fight to the death (since a call spell actually can cause death) is not going to give you many bonuses. If, perhaps, we had a sorceror attempting this spell, I'd be more amicable, as those characters can lock these creatures down with their massive charismas, making it nearly impossible to escape/ refuse their bidding. I'm afraid the Charisma of 8 is only going to hurt Bilo... my 2 gp
SnarkHunter 04-11-04, 09:05 PM	I had envisioned attempting this in the format of a "monster fight" where another DM would arbitrate the completion of the spell, the calling and all requisite saves and ability checks. The only difference of course would be that the actual fight would only occure if something went terribly wrong with the casting of the spell. If this turned out to be something we'd like to balance, we could have a regular monster fight. That is, if victorious, Bilo'd put the bruised and battered outsider in the circle and bind him to service. Admittedly getting the Effreeti('s) for wish spells is particuarly twinkish. And its hard to pervert the meaning for asking to be smarter, smarterer, and most smarterest (a +3 insight bonus to intelligence). Finally if the arena does decide to move away from allies this would remain an intellectual exercise only. Also as the 13th level folk are in no danger of being unfrozen soon, this isn't a pressing issue to explore.
^Rayne^ 04-11-04, 09:32 PM	quote from barrel_master Wait a second, are people just 'upgrading' their equipment by simply paying the cost difference between say a +1 sword and a +2 sword? Aren't you supposed to sell the +1 sword then buy a brand new +2 sword? I've never seen a rule that states that you can simply pay the difference. If there is one tell me. I was under the impression that you could pay for upgrades for weapons and stuff like this. I mean if you can buy any spell or pay for spells like enlarge to be cast on your PC along with Permanency then it only makes sense that you could pay the extra cost to upgrade your +1 weapon to a +2 one. I've started doing this only recently having my fighter's masterwork weapons magically enhanced. My PC's both went through their audits without problems and as long as the improvements being cast on your items are not custom (ie you can find your exact items in the book and the properties being added are ones you can add to such an item) then you are in fact playing by the rules and doing nothing wrong. Obviously if you have a normal sword and it isn't masterwork quality then you can't have it changed to a magical one and the same thing applies to armor and so on. I haven't seen any rule preventing legal upgrades to items as long as you add on any additional cost that is required for such an upgrade to be added. It sort of makes sense for my Samurai. He loves his swords and it makes sense to me that he would simply want to improve his favored weapons than have new ones made. If I am wrong on this I am sorry but everything I have read leads me to believe this practice is acceptable. I am not an Elder though and so the final word is theirs. ;)
Magagumo 04-11-04, 10:14 PM	Upgrades are quite standard... Rayne has described the process marvelously. :) In most games I know, as spellcasters can easily construct items or upgrade them, it is considered that such spellcasters are available (at the standard price). Personally, I check what level caster should be expected (as per the DMG rules on constructing towns) so the small city in my game (Preveka by name, with an arena in it... but I thought of it first :P) has around a 14th level cleric and wizard, so players could have weapons enchanted up to a +3 enhancement bonus (as per 12th caster of Greater Magic Weapon) and can upgrade them further (w/ special powers) up to the gp limit of such a town (which can easily handle purchases of over 50k). In our Arena, I presume we have 20th casters floating around a planar metropolis, so the sky is the limit on the purchases, 20th level and non-epic being the only caps on enchancing items, purchasing equipment, and having permenant spells cast on you.
MotherBast 04-11-04, 10:19 PM	You can indeed simply pay the difference between a +1 and +2 weapon to upgrade. Note that this is not simply an arena rule. This rule is in the DMG, on Page 288 under Adding New abilities.
barrel_master 04-12-04, 12:47 AM	Originally posted by MotherBast You can indeed simply pay the difference between a +1 and +2 weapon to upgrade. Note that this is not simply an arena rule. This rule is in the DMG, on Page 288 under Adding New abilities. Merci Motherblast and all the other dudes that responded.
Caterane 04-12-04, 07:36 AM	Donkey vs Paul Hector (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3118259#post3118259)
Caterane 04-12-04, 09:18 AM	@US citizen: My trip to the US is coming closer. Perhaps you can help me with some questions!? That would be really cool! Uhm, and can it be that there`s a mistake with the wages? The best offer I can find (for a student's job) is about 8$, most of them less. Just curious if they don`t take me in!? Anyway, I have 5 days left to decide where to go. At the moment I plan on going to New York but that`s just because I don`t have too much insider information about the various cities. My main emphasize is that there`s something going on, the people should be friendly, cool and open-minded, it should be warm (June to October, and I hate rayne ...uhm rain :D ), the place should be interesting, and I don`t want to get shot down or participate in 'the simple life' show. From hearsay interessting places could be New York, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Miami, San Diego, Hawai, and Boston but I have really no idea. Any insights? That would help me greatly! Oh, and there should be internet connections available, else I can`t continue to participate here during my stay. Thanks a lot! Cat
Myrridin 04-12-04, 09:40 AM	Cat: For a student job $8/hour is pretty good actually. Unless you're a good bartender, you're pretty much stuck with that. As for cities, San Diego's beautiful, as is San Fran. Unfortunately, you're also looking at some of the most expensive places to live in the US as well. I don't live in any of those cities, but have visited them. They're nice. :)
Myrridin 04-12-04, 10:31 AM	Can you deliver a CDG to a downed opponent if you're being threatened by another opponent? I'm going with Yes, you can preform it, but your opponent gets an AoO for it.
Captain Mutilate 04-12-04, 10:35 AM	Yup, Myrridin. They do get an AoO.
Ethendril 04-12-04, 11:38 AM	Originally posted by Caterane From hearsay interessting places could be New York, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Miami, San Diego, Hawai, and Boston but I have really no idea. Any insights? That would help me greatly! Cat New York=very expensive Las Vegas (I live 6 hours from Vegas) is hot, dry, and below average cost of living. I can tell you the most about this area...Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Colorado are all great places to live in my opinion. San Francisco=perhaps the most expensive city to live in, and an hour commute if you live anywhere reasonably priced. San Diego has great weather, probably cheaper than the other big cities you listed. Hawaii...how could you not like Hawaii, but very expensive. Boston...haven't been to Boston, but I've heard it's also very expensive. Are you coming on a student visa? You will probably earn approximately the same amount as a student anywhere ($8-$12 an hour), but the cost of living is going to vary wildly. Almost all places will have decent internet connections available. You may want to consider some smaller cities where the cost of living won't be outrageous. East and West coast will cost more, southern states perhaps a bit less (Texas is good outside major cities). Anyway, these are some general statements based on my perceptions. People who live in some of these places may have some better input. -Ethendril
Jindl 04-12-04, 12:14 PM	I'm a big fan of Colorado (having lived there for 6 years). Especially the Denver area. But it will snow in October (but hey, do you like to ski?) I also think you might like some of the southern cities (and no, Miami isn't southern...) Charleston, Raleigh (Jindl's hometown), Greenville-SC, and Richmond are all nice and fairly inexpensive places to live. Plus I can speak from experience that there are lots of good-looking girls in all of these towns. -Jindl
Myrridin 04-12-04, 12:18 PM	I live in Greensboro, NC. And can vouch for the niceness that is the Raleigh/Durham area. Fight question. It's a standard action to try to escape a grapple. If you do so, can you then take a single move action? Or are you stuck 1 square away? It sounds like the latter from the SRD and my reading.
Arstimis 04-12-04, 12:53 PM	Im from a military family, so i've moved around the US. I would have to say San Diego would be one of the best places to live for people, weather, and things to do. Its nearly always sunny, but the breeze from the ocean makes it just right. The one drawback would have to be the cost of living though....its such a great place everyone wants to be here...so the prices go up.
Magagumo 04-12-04, 02:06 PM	@Cat Just to put my own 2c in, I would have to agree that $8 is fairly tolerable (I'm getting 5.65 here, but that's part of financial aid). On that kind of salary, I would avoid living in Hawaii for several months.. I believe it's even more than San Fran, and unless you can live on fruit, most milk, meat, and other products must be shipped/flown in, so their prices are exorbitant. To avoid rain, i recommend avoiding Northwest US, especially Oregon and Washington (Seattle is the worst for rain). Also, the areas around the Great LAkes (Michigan, Wisconsin, Western New York, Ohio, and especially a small town in NW, Pennsylvania ;)) get a ton of snow, sleet, and rain, sometimes each occuring in succession over a week. Two weeks ago, we had a balmy 70s Wednesday, sleet/snow storm Thursday, Rain Friday, 75 Staurday, snow on Sunday.... got to love Meadville weather. Hmm, I'll put my vote in for Philadelphia as well, more historical interests though, so if you're looking for nightlife and such, I'd go with other people's suggestions :)
Myrridin 04-12-04, 02:14 PM	The fight is up. Vryk vs Jo'Li (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3120699#post3120699)
Kaigan 04-12-04, 02:37 PM	@CAT: You should really think about coming to south california. It's really nice down here. About 80 most of the time. Beaches are nice, and some of the places are pretty cheap. Hmm... So your canadian, coming to the u.s. for vacation? Neat. I'm canadian and i'm living here. Here as in south california. @Jindl: Isn't raleigh where american idol Clay Aiken from?
Pitlords 04-12-04, 02:38 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan @Jindl: Isn't raleigh where american idol Clay Aiken from? Yeah, but it's still a nice place to live. Especially since he is on tour. -Jindl Drat. Wrong Login.
kedi 04-12-04, 03:26 PM	posted the fight of ecl 2s.
Kaigan 04-12-04, 07:34 PM	@Jindl: I would like to mod two fights this week if possible, plesae.
Tellish_of_Ket 04-12-04, 07:45 PM	Humongous Apolagies @ ALL: I did the fights while i was away on holidays. Actually, i'm still on holidays, just taking a quick time-out to write this so i don't delay things. I left my file-folder at my brothers place (14 hr drive, so i'm not going to pick it back up) and the fights were written down in them. Thus i sadly announced that i have to just post the winners here without roles, story or anything. It doesn't get more anti-climactic that this. Plus to boot, i'm still on holidays for another week (minimum). But after that i may be away on business. Don't give me any fights to run this week, and my guy will remain inactive. FIGHTS Torielisien vs Ixidor: Winner Ixidor Zephin vs Dusk: Winner Dusk Zephin vs Dusk was pretty close. Sadly the other one wasn't. -ToK. ps. k, i'm off again. I didn't read all the back messages either, no time. I'll be back in another week.
Magagumo 04-12-04, 08:55 PM	@T_o_k Understood, at some point I'd like to know what Tori used... and how she lost (in brief detail). Good to learn from one's mistakes, you know?
Kaigan 04-13-04, 12:02 AM	@Jindl: I think that some of the newer mods, myself included need to follow more strict guidlines for fights. Some of the fights are confusing and do not show what is going on. I know you stated some guidelines but the newer mods should try to follow the elder mods example. I say this just to stop all the confusing fights.
^Rayne^ 04-13-04, 01:12 AM	Posted by Caterane June to October, and I hate rayne ...uhm rain I thought you were over that? ;) Here, I thought that I was doing a much better job keeping my mouth shut around here. :rant: Sorry I just had to use this rant symbol because it is so cool! However I've tried to avoid ranting at all. Notice I don't even respond anymore to my PC's continuous cycle of losses in the arena.
SnarkHunter 04-13-04, 01:13 AM	I don't know about the other mods but Mag and I use the following sheet I developed. Edit to your own liking and when your assigned the fight fill in the appropriate info (Start quote here) Combatant 1, player 1 vs. Combatant 2, player 2 -Tactics: Combatant 1 Combatant 1 Tactics: Combatant 2 Combatant 2 Initiative: Combatant 1: += Combatant 2: += Round 1 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 2 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 3 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 4 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 5 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 6 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 7 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 8 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 9 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 10 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 11 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 12 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 13 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 14 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 15 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 16 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 17 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 18 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 19 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Round 20 Combatant 1, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Combatant 2, location (x,y), current hp/total hp, spell effects, conditions Epilogue (end quote)
daemones 04-13-04, 03:53 AM	I'm (still) fiddling with a possible character build, and I ran across a question that would make my past DM's go :uh-huh:. The SRD definition of armor spikes reads as follows: ...You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.)... So - Can you make an off-hand attack with armor spikes while wielding a two-handed weapon? I'm *sure* that there is somewhere that specifically states stuff like this doesn't work, but I can't for the life of me find it.
cellardweller 04-13-04, 04:03 AM	Perfectly valid and a common practice on the char opt boards - I even have a character that is heading that way (if she can ever win her first fight grrrr) ;)
KerlanRayne 04-13-04, 04:12 AM	Originally posted by daemones So - Can you make an off-hand attack with armor spikes while wielding a two-handed weapon? I'm *sure* that there is somewhere that specifically states stuff like this doesn't work, but I can't for the life of me find it. This has been debated on the Character Optimization board and it appears that you can. Odd but true. KerlanRayne
MotherBast 04-13-04, 07:19 AM	I also followed this argument on the Opt boards, and also think it is very odd, but nothing in the rules stops you from doing so.
Beldin 04-13-04, 09:15 AM	another rules question: can i combine a touch attack (chill touch) with a creatures natural weapon attack (claw)? thx
SnarkHunter 04-13-04, 09:19 AM	Yes though you would have to make the attack the turn after you cast the spell.
Myrridin 04-13-04, 10:06 AM	Can an Elder 8 please un-"wait" Zephin and Dusk? Dusk has now progressed to level 6, while Zephin stays where he is. I'd like to make a couple changes to my character however.
Caterane 04-13-04, 10:44 AM	Another votes has been closed: Druid's wearing wilded armor are considered armored! The poll has been closed with a 5 to 1 majority, pretty clear. Council of Elder Mods (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2734709#post2734709) @all: Thanks for the hints. At the moment I`m more drawn towards the west coast, San Diego sounded fine but the payment is really bad (8$... no wonder that you think everything's so expensive). Perhaps I get some tips bonus; should pack my cloak of charisma and circlet of persuasion :) And Denver, is it rainy or cold there in summer? @Rayne: I was just kidding ;)
Beldin 04-13-04, 11:20 AM	thx snark I posted a new charackter, alberich, and set him ready i hope there aren't to many mistakes in his sheet...
Ethendril 04-13-04, 11:24 AM	And Denver, is it rainy or cold there in summer? Not at all. Denver is high altitude [Mile High City], but it is really a high altitude desert in a lot of ways. It is snowy in the winter, but the summer months are very warm, with very little precipitation. I don't live there, but have been there a lot. It sounds like Jindl could tell you more.
Jindl 04-13-04, 12:18 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Thus i sadly announced that i have to just post the winners here without roles, story or anything. It doesn't get more anti-climactic that this. FIGHTS Torielisien vs Ixidor: Winner Ixidor Zephin vs Dusk: Winner Dusk Zephin vs Dusk was pretty close. Sadly the other one wasn't. @Tellish - I will be assessing you two negative credits, though we appreciate you letting us know who won. @All - I am also giving myself a negative credit for posting the Dra'kel vs Corinthus fight late. -Jindl
KerlanRayne 04-13-04, 12:58 PM	@TagIIV: That spear your Orc cleric has takes a full round action to throw. Just making sure you know in case it changes any of your plans. @All: Can Grym get an Air Elemental with Improved Familiar? KerlanRayne
Ethendril 04-13-04, 01:06 PM	@kattattack22: I find Ony's moderation in moderation disturbing;) ...see RP thread for a challenge. @Jindl and Cat: Dusk has been updated and is ready for next pairings.
Myrridin 04-13-04, 01:42 PM	Zephin is ready again...and hoping to NOT get a fire immune opponent.
Magagumo 04-13-04, 01:45 PM	Given that I don't know how fast Ixidor beat Tori, I will assume that at least my first round tactic went off (to drink the Shield of Faith Potion). Perhaps Ixidor won init and "ran" to my side 1st round. Second round he charged for a grapple attempt, using a stunning fist successfully as he snagged me. From then on, my raging grapple (+10) was equal to his (+10) and we fought it out until magic DR overcame rage and I was left exhausted and beaten.... Perhaps that's how it went? Anyways, Cat, you can tell me if this seems reasonable, as I'm marking my SoF potion as used, but my Bull's STr as unused. If your tactics were not to run and smack me down 2nd round, then I suppose the Bull's Strength was also used, but I wonder why it wouldn't have been a close fight then, given my grapple would actually have been higher *sighs, v. confused*
Hatzinger 04-13-04, 01:56 PM	the fight has been edited. the "hideous laughter" and the "feather token (whip)" thing should be correct now. the result of the fight was the same. but you were right to ask, arstimis; at low hps like at the end of this fight, the first serious hit can change the outcome.
Jindl 04-13-04, 02:23 PM	@All - Okay, I just updated the roster, audited 3 characters (and posted violations for Kedi, Anouilh Lyn, and kattattack22), deleted a few off the inactive list, added a new pitlord, etc., etc., etc. @Mag + Cat - I think until Tellish posts the actual equipment used, you both should assume the worst. We can always fix it later. So, if your standard tactics said to use an item (like your potion: bulls strength, Mag), then assume it was used. If it was a conditional item (like a healing potion), then don't assume it was used. Also, we'll ignore any ammuntion for now. When Tellish gets back, he needs to post what equip was used, so that you two can fix your characters. @Arstimis, Beldin, and Hatzinger - You three have 3 more hours to come to an agreement on the fight. At that time, I will ask Hatzinger who won, and the winner/loser will be updated on the roster. -Jindl
Caterane 04-13-04, 03:00 PM	@Mag: Here`s my tactic. Perhaps if you could post yours aswell!? Tactics for Ixidor Starting equipment: Start with potion of mage armor and oil of magic weapon in hand Initiative: Wether I win or lose initiative, drink potion of mage armor and rise in the air. Exception: If entangled [Reflex+10 vs Dc13] drink potion of mage armor and try to break free. Add protection from evil if he hits often. Heal wounds if necessary. As soon as I`m free, rise in the air. Main Tactic: Description: No fly potion? Tststs. Tactic is rather simple: sunder bow then shoot him down from the heavens. (1) Buffing: After Mage armor, I want to see Protection from evil and cover [Ac29]. Then Aid. If he has darkness on him, cast daylight (60ft) on me [which negates his darkness (20ft) once I`m within 60ft]. Try to be at about 60ft altitude and about 120ft away and always behind cover from him at the end of this buffing. (2) Next round move closer while drawing my glaive plus apply oil to glaive. Now it depends: (a) Tori has the bow in her hand: charge (or dive) and sunder it. Stay 10ft in the air so he doesn`t get an AoO. My attack roll is +11 [+2bab,+4str,+1mw,+2charge,+1height,+1aid] and my opposed sunder is +15. If the bow isn`t sundered Tori surely stores it away (=AoO: sunder bow), or drops it on the floor. In this case see below. (b) Tori has the bow stored away: attack it with a fly-by attack. This counts as "attacking a carried object" PHB p158. The bows has Ac14. If Mag readies an action to attack me when I`m in reach don`t forget my +4 Ac from mobility! (c) Tori has dropped the bow at her feet: sunder it! Auto-hit. Modification: If Tori anyhow destroyed my bow, try to get his one. First, lure him into dropping his bow by engaging in melee from 10ft above so that he drops the bow at his feet. Then immideately pick it up and rise. If he didn`t drop it but stored it away, snatch it. I get -4 because I`m unarmed, but he gets -4 because I`m not snatching a melee weapon. Perhaps I even get +4 because a bow is easy to snatch away. Use fly-bys to get this. As soon as I have a bow and he hasn`t there`s no chance I can lose. Shoot him down from above. Use smite evil on first damaging attack, wether it`s in melee or ranged. A note to Fly-by: always start and end movement behind a cover pillar - if possible and in range. If not in range forget about the cover but try to draw the fight next to a pillar. I don`t need to rise to full altitude; just high enough that he cannot reach me (~15ft). If he anyhow still reaches me fly a bit higher. Note that my downward dive is doublespeed so I have enough movement left to rise and perhaps fly behind cover. Secondly, if he stands next to a pillar and readies an action to attack me, approach so that I have cover when I enter his reach while I attack when I am past the cover and suffer no penalty. [i]Note: I don`t want to take many chances here. If I`m wounded below 20 hp heal with lay on hands + wand until above 30 hp. The next time I`m wounded below 20 use wand until I`m above 30 again. If he uses his rage, continue with my sunder tactic but if it seems like I have a hard time sundering it now or he hits me too often retreat with total defense and cover, heal and return when his rages weared off. With my superior maneuverability and better healing abilities he should only be able to kill me with a propability distortion critical like I always get when Jindl mods. Emergency Tactic: If the above tactic didn`t work for any reason I`ve covered an emergency tactic, just in case. Also use this if you think I`m better off with this one. Description: This means we both have no bows any more. If he uses rage wait it out behind cover and total defense. Since I`m a monk I have natural weapons :looloo: while he only deals subdual damage and my damage reduction applies so I`m at a great advantage. If he has already used his rage and is fatigued I should be able to flurry him to the ground. Grapple+Pin her, drag her up every round (I get +4 on this check if she`s pinned, PHB, p156). If she escapes and lives, charge (mobility!) and grapple again. Once at 60ft altitude flurry of blows. Another emergency approach, if grapple seems not to work or this one seems better: Fly-by attacks with my reach weapon. This forces him to make ready actions and he hasn`t a reach weapon. Modifications: Rebuffs: As soon as protection from evil runs out, recast it. As soon as aid runs out, cast bless. Hides: If he hides, use detect evil ability to find him. Once he`s in my daylight radius and I`m observing him he shouldn´t be able to get away again. Healing: As soon as below 20hp, heal until above 30 again. Use lay on hands first, then wand. Invisibility: If necessary, use potion of invisibility to heal savely. Try to use invisibility to my advantage before my next attack. Darkness: If despite my daylight on me his darkness still proves a problem make a touch attack to auto-dispel it with daylight. But only if really necessary. Notes: Sundering: (1) He doesn`t get his improved sunder bonus on opposed checks when I am sundering HIS weapon. (2) A glaive vs a bow qualifies as "vulnerability to certain attacks", PHB p165 which is double damage. At DM's discretion it even ignores the bows hardness. (3) He cannot make an AoO with a bow. If he uses his buckler he gets -1 to all attacks.
Magagumo 04-13-04, 03:26 PM	@Cat I should note that the +4 from Improved Sunder only applies if one is attacking a held or carried item (weapons and shields don't count). I believe this may have been misrun in the past. Also, where does the vulnerability come into play? This is not an attacked object, but a wielded bow, so Tori would get her normal attack roll (-1 from buckler, forgot that little tid-bit) +4 from wielding it two-handed... if the bow isn't being wielded, then half damage applies, but I can't imagine hardness would be ignored, magic wood isn't paper after all, so it has hardness 6 and 15 hp. Ah well, my tactics didn't account for sundering of my bow (I always forget the little tricks, *sighs*), so it is likely that it was eventually destroyed, and you shot me to death from the air. I just hope T_o_K knew the rules I've listed above. Anyways, here are my tactics: Well now, you've got yourself a battle between a creature of goodness, law, and light, and a creature of chaos, evil, and darkness. Can't go wrong with a foundation for RP like that ;) Anyways, let's get to it. Tori will be leaving her heavy shield home today, with her buckler on her arm (note that her AC is base 21, 22 w/ the buckler). She will be walking in with both of her potions as well. I'll remind you (just in case) that Spell-like abilities do not take words or movements to cast, so no arcane spell failure and I don't need my hands free. Eventually, SR will come into play, but as Ixidor's abilities are all personally targeted, we won't have to worry about that today. I'll give you the rundown, then we'll adjust as needed: Step 1: Drink down the Prot from Law potion (AC rises to 23/24), and move back towards one of the rocks behind Tori (can make with her 40', with only a -5 penalty I believe, then Hide/Move Silently (My apologies for not listing my MS check, its +4 dex - 1 ACP, so a +3). Step 2: Drink my potion of Bull's Str, and draw out my longbow as I move to retain cover while also keeping an eye out for our friend. Step 3: Begin to stalk Ixidor, firing my longbow at him as soon as I can (move to get a clear shot if possible). If I do not see him in my first round of looking, cast Darkness on myself (for concealment), and hold my action to fire every subsequent round that I am not able to find him. (Rem: I do not suffer miss chances to attack unless he is also within the Darkness) Step 4: Ixidor is likely to close for combat, so that he can avoid his paltry ranged attacks and bring his grappling skills to bear on Tori (My grapple will be +10 w/ Bull's). Continue to fire arrows at him until I am actually grappled, then immediately begin raging and use my own grapple check (+12 w/ rage) to pin him, then use subsequent checks to damage him (a paltry 1d3+6 w/ rage and bull's, subdual and partially defeated by his DR 5/magic :(). If I manage to knock him unconscious before he kills me, retrieve my magic scimitar and coup de grace the angel. (I realize he can lay on hands w/o difficulty in a grapple, and Bless/Aid will give +1 to the grapple attempt, but perhaps my superior hp/grapple check will help? We'll see). Notes: Obviously, I do not have any healing potions -If Ixidor decides to disappear from view while we are fighting (ala Potion of Invis), attack his last-known spot if he drew and drank the potion (Blind-Fight could help), or cast Darkness (if I haven't done so) if he already had the potion in hand at the beginning of the turn. Until he appears, I will take to hiding, holding my attack to shoot him on sight if he isn't using Daylight, (I will be able to hide, and his touch attack will have a miss chance). If he is using Daylight to negate my Darkness, then it must be cast on himself, since he has no extra items to cast it on. Thusly, while he is invisible, I can still track his general location by following where the glowing orb of light goes. If I can see the full radius of light [allowing my character to determine its centermost square] begin attacking that square, as that is where he must be. Repeat this complicated process until he reappears /and we are grappling. -If, rather than using his superior grappling, Ixidor decides to fight a bow war, allow my Darkness and powerful bow to bring him down (never rage while firing my bow, unless, of course, I began the rage for a better reason). -If Ixidor decides to Spring Attack and Glaive/longsword me, drop my bow, draw my scimitar, and hold my 5-step and attack action to step and sunder his weapon when he tries to attack me. While I'm not raging, the Bull's Str will give me an edge, and hafted weapons (5 hp) go down fast to adamantine. Once his weapons are destroyed, he'll probably try to grapple me, but that's how it goes *Shrug* Ixidor will be a tricky beast- he'll be able to do some extra damage with those smites, and he might be able to buff himself with those Prot from Evil and Aid before I am able to locate and start attacking him. This will likely come down to a grapple.. we'll see who wins? :) One last thing, if I ever get a chance to sunder that wand (AC 10+3 (dex) +2 (size= 15 vs. my attack + 15 to hit), do so, it's hardness is ignored so one swipe will automatically take it down (1d6+6 vs. 5 hp). That would be nice to keep him from healing too much :)
Caterane 04-13-04, 03:57 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo: I should note that the +4 from Improved Sunder only applies if one is attacking a held or carried item (weapons and shields don't count). IMPROVED SUNDER [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack. Benefit: When you strike at an object held or carried by an opponent (such as a weapon or shield), you do not provoke an attack of opportunity (see Sunder, page 158). You also gain a +4 bonus on any attack roll made to attack an object held or carried by another character. Originally posted by Magagumo: Also, where does the vulnerability come into play? PHB, p165. If choping a tree with an axe quialifies for this rule then a glaive choping a feeble bow surely does too, or even better: at DM's discretion it even ignores hardness. so it has hardness 6 and 15 hp. Hardness is actually 7, just for future sunderers :) But your right: really a pity that there was no story. Tellish's a good writer if he takes the time. I`m sure extreme good vs evil qualifies for a good story. We`ll fight again...
Myrridin 04-13-04, 04:06 PM	Originally posted by Caterane PHB, p165. If choping a tree with an axe quialifies for this rule then a glaive choping a feeble bow surely does too, or even better: at DM's discretion it even ignores hardness. A person chopping an object that's just sitting there versus someone's tempered bow. I guess you could make that ruling, but then anyone attempting to sunder a bow's in luck. A longsword versus a longbow is about the same as an axe versus a tree. Both the axe and the longsword are made to slash/cleave through something. In the case of the heavier axe, it's a tree. In the case of a lighter longsword, it's a thin bow. Sounds like a slippery slope of deciding which weapons get bonuses to sunder others. And what about bucklers? They're just wooden disks.
Jindl 04-13-04, 04:46 PM	An object's vulnerability to certain attacks is purely at the pitlord's discretion (as is the case in any DnD campaign). Perhap's Tellish used this, perhaps not. In any case, a player shouldn't do more than suggest this, as any vulnerability will be at the discretion of the pitlord. -Jindl
Caterane 04-13-04, 05:21 PM	Question: Viscious weapon. Does the 1d6 damage backflash breach my DR 5/magic? Would be too cool if not. Ixidor is ready. Harvester sits out. Maximum fights please. If I get 3 fights it`s 3 weeks and my new character is ready.
Arstimis 04-13-04, 05:29 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Question: Viscious weapon. Does the 1d6 damage backflash breach my DR 5/magic? Would be too cool if not. Is the weapon magic :P
Caterane 04-13-04, 05:47 PM	So if the Harvester uses a viscious scythe and has DR 10/adamantine he is not subject to this damage?
Limit 04-13-04, 05:53 PM	Originally posted by Caterane So if the Harvester uses a viscious scythe and has DR 10/adamantine he is not subject to this damage? I'm not sure I have an opinion on this yet, but here are some related pieces from the SRD: Vicious: When a vicious weapon strikes an opponent, it creates a flash of disruptive energy that resonates between the opponent and the wielder. This energy deals an extra 2d6 points of damage to the opponent and 1d6 points of damage to the wielder. Only melee weapons can be vicious. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact. Attacks that deal no damage because of the target’s damage reduction do not disrupt spells. Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.
Druid Roxors 04-13-04, 05:57 PM	Yep, there's your answer Cat. By the way, I was reading the description of "Call lightning" and it would seem that the spell ignores any type of defense or cover granted to an oponent. 3.5 SRD Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected. So, a creature with a tower shield gaining cover, or inside a rock (meld into stone) or whatever would be affected? This is not the same with lightning or fireball (and similar spells) My guess is that it would work, thats intresting...
Jindl 04-13-04, 05:58 PM	The additional damage dealt by a vicious weapon is a nonspecified energy type (much like the half of a flamestrike that is divine energy, or the type of energy damage from a searing light). As such, it is not negated by DR or any type of energy resistance. -Jindl
Jindl 04-13-04, 06:00 PM	Total cover from a tower shield would still grant a bonus to reflex saves and improved evasion (there is a line of effect, but the opponent has total cover). Meld into stone prevents damage completely, as there is no line of effect to the character. The rock could potentially take damage, but it is doubtful it would take enough to eject the melded character. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 04-13-04, 06:03 PM	But the point is that you do not need line of effect to the character but to the rock. Im not sure if you are invulnerable within the stone, is that the current rulling? Should someone else meld into the same stone, can they see/attack each other?
Druid Roxors 04-13-04, 06:08 PM	@ Jindl: May I ask a favor from you? Within the fight, I didn't like the fact that I lost Perductoris. Although, replacing him is free and takes no time, I would like to have cured him (with CMW) before I lost so that I could keep him with my character. ( I know that I can just get anotherone and name him in the same way, but I don't like that ) Could you do this? Im still planning to use him in a very special way but I'm yet to encounter an appropriate enemy.
Boldrift-Mattock 04-13-04, 07:20 PM	hello everyone I am a freind of motherbast. He has helped me set my character up and wishes for someone to check it and make sure it is ok for paring tomorrow. I hope to prosper with Boldrift. I would just like to say it is nice to be playing with you all.
kattattack22 04-13-04, 08:34 PM	Welcome Boldrift-Mattock! As I can see nothing is wrong, but keep an eye on the Character Violations thread to see if others catch something amiss.
Hatzinger 04-13-04, 08:37 PM	hi, boldrift. your character looks cool to me. nice all-rounder. some minor things: - the Con, Dex, Wis modifiers should be written to the saves-calculation. Just to make browsing easier. - how do you get to 1d6+4 damage with your rapier? i guess two-handed, right? - rogues are not proficient with composite shortbows; only with normal shortbows. and putting the +3 in brackets helps to distinguish it from a +3 enhancement bonus. EDIT: i don´t think that normal shortbows can be migty +X ones. - rogues are not proficient with sicles. - most important thing: you didn´t write which languages he knows! ;) no, really. nothing wrong with this one i think.
freemoody 04-13-04, 08:42 PM	I just posted Lillith. Hope someone can check her over for me. Hopefully she'll be fighting this week. By the way. She hates you all. (Except Jindl,...and the other druids.)
MotherBast 04-13-04, 08:59 PM	Boldrift is downstairs watching The Rundown, so I'll field these for him. As for his sheet, we couldn't get the defalt sheet to work, so I told him to just do a temp one till I could figure out why. I'll work with him and get his sheet standardized before to much longer. I just didn't wana put the effort in today. He does wield the Rapier two-handed, which I told him to note on his sheet. I was under the impression that Composit versons of bows and the reqular versions were "the same" as far as proficiencies went. So if your proficent with the rugular version, you are also proficient with the composit version. I could be mistaken about that, but thats how I've always seen it ran. If I find out differently i'll let him know. I'm his DM, so he only knows the rules I tell him to know :D Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, which would include the sickle. He hasen't done his story yet. He is thinking on it and I'm sure the languages will come with that. He has to figure out some why to make is so it will make sense for him to take Barbarian levels later, and still go assassin after that.
Caterane 04-13-04, 09:17 PM	Originally posted by freemoody I just posted Lillith. Hope someone can check her over for me. Hopefully she'll be fighting this week. By the way. She hates you all. (Except Jindl,...and the other druids.) Be careful that she doesn`t get punched in the face and thrown out on the street by Brackin because there`s only a 1% chance that he cannot hit you and a 99.25% that he kills you in one hit :rolleyes:
Alterlat 04-13-04, 09:27 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo @Cat I should note that the +4 from Improved Sunder only applies if one is attacking a held or carried item (weapons and shields don't count). I believe this may have been misrun in the past. Also, where does the vulnerability come into play? This is not an attacked object, but a wielded bow, so Tori would get her normal attack roll (-1 from buckler, forgot that little tid-bit) +4 from wielding it two-handed... if the bow isn't being wielded, then half damage applies, but I can't imagine hardness would be ignored, magic wood isn't paper after all, so it has hardness 6 and 15 hp. Ah well, my tactics didn't account for sundering of my bow (I always forget the little tricks, *sighs*), so it is likely that it was eventually destroyed, and you shot me to death from the air. I just hope T_o_K knew the rules I've listed above. Anyways, here are my tactics: I suspect that the +4 for wielding two-handed is only meant for melee weapons. In any case, when a bow is being used, it is held in one hand for most of the time. The other hand only holds the bow during the actual process of drawing the bow back to fire.
Mercy 04-13-04, 09:28 PM	Can an "ex-monk" get the benefit of Monk's Belt as if he were a monk?
MotherBast 04-13-04, 09:29 PM	Bah, as long as she stays away from the bar she should be fine. Brackin is to busy dealing with Pard to go walking all the way out to the woods just to punch a druid.;)
Kaigan 04-13-04, 10:02 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin And what about bucklers? They're just wooden disks. Bucklers are actually small metal disks.
Alterlat 04-13-04, 10:05 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast He does wield the Rapier two-handed, which I told him to note on his sheet. The rapier's description specifically states that it can't be used two-handed to get the extra strength damage.
MotherBast 04-13-04, 10:24 PM	Ah, I didn't read that. He's already left or I'd tell him to change that.
Jindl 04-13-04, 11:21 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ Jindl: May I ask a favor from you? Within the fight, I didn't like the fact that I lost Perductoris. Although, replacing him is free and takes no time, I would like to have cured him (with CMW) before I lost so that I could keep him with my character. ( I know that I can just get anotherone and name him in the same way, but I don't like that ) Could you do this? Im still planning to use him in a very special way but I'm yet to encounter an appropriate enemy. Since he is replaced for free, just say that he was true ressurrected. That should cover it. -Jindl
kattattack22 04-14-04, 12:09 AM	Originally posted by freemoody By the way. She hates you all. (Except Jindl,...and the other druids.) What about Ony? He loves the woodlands and worships Obad-hai.
daemones 04-14-04, 02:17 AM	I've just posted Irvin up in the Gladiators' thread. If someone would look him over, I'd be much obliged - I'm sure I've missed something. (Now that I look, I see that I'm missing my attack section. I can hopefully add that tomorrow before pairings)
Beldin 04-14-04, 06:01 AM	aemon vs laucien: looks like i won in the second instance, too. @hatzinger: thanks for the extra work you put in it. i belive everything is correct now (i belived that before your edit either!):rolleyes: looks like moderating is not always fun...somewhere i read about a no rerun policy @jindl: aemon will sit out this week, alberich will fight. id like to try pitlording 4/21 if possible, so that both of my gladiators can fight! thx
Myrridin 04-14-04, 09:06 AM	I can take two fights this week. Let's here it for the deadline for a paper being extended! :)
Caterane 04-14-04, 09:34 AM	@all: Can anyone help me out with the various state locations? A site where the location of the state is listed would help me greatly otherwise I may end up in Alaska. Thanks
Hatzinger 04-14-04, 09:35 AM	@Cat: lost your "Diercke Weltatlas"? :D
kedi 04-14-04, 09:43 AM	Posted a new character to fight. Mete rests for a time. I can moderate up to 3 fights, and hopefully three fights this week.
TaggIIV 04-14-04, 10:03 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @all: Can anyone help me out with the various state locations? A site where the location of the state is listed would help me greatly otherwise I may end up in Alaska. Thanks http://worldmapsonline.com/images/gc930-6501uspolmap.jpg
Caterane 04-14-04, 10:09 AM	@Hatze: Muahahaha mighty Dierke Weltatlas. Sold it after my Abitur :D @Tagg: Hey thanks!! That helps me greatly. But there are some states missing: http://www.defenselink.mil/issues/iraq/iraq.gif :angel:
Myrridin 04-14-04, 10:17 AM	Cat wins. That was awesome! Mercy: Check the Character violation thread for a problem with Jo'Li.
Smergel 04-14-04, 10:42 AM	I'm fixed Smergel and he is ready for another loss .. eh, fight. -Smergel
Jindl 04-14-04, 11:05 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Cat wins. That was awesome! Mercy: Check the Character violation thread for a problem with Jo'Li. BTW: Jo'Li is not in violation yet, since he was a ex-monk1/druid2 in his last fight (no xp penalties yet). But thanks for pointing out that he will suffer xp penalties from now on, since he has become an ex-monk1/druid3. For those who don't know, the xp penalty is simulated by awarding 5/6th normal gold for winning a fight (for a 20% xp penalty). -Jindl
Ethendril 04-14-04, 11:42 AM	The villains are coming! I'm not sure if anyone else noticed this, but six out of eleven first level characters are evil. So for all you paladins out there, get ready. I think this is a good thing because it makes the arena more interesting.
kedi 04-14-04, 11:56 AM	Hey, why ain't my chick on the rooster? Hmm, evil. Smite evil is good. Well anyways, my character has smite ability, and can smite anyone. no differences to meh :P And cat, how can a reaper (harvesters) be true neutral? I suggest you to make it Neutral Evil. And why is the level 13 league frozen?
Myrridin 04-14-04, 12:06 PM	Originally posted by kedi And cat, how can a reaper (harvesters) be true neutral? I suggest you to make it Neutral Evil. And why is the level 13 league frozen? Death is a neutral force, it comes for everything. Though I "like" the use of spontaneous cure spells while getting Chaotic Evil mounts to ride. Something about that just strikes me as not quite right.
barrel_master 04-14-04, 12:49 PM	Originally posted by kedi Hey, why ain't my chick on the rooster? Hmm, evil. Smite evil is good. Well anyways, my character has smite ability, and can smite anyone. no differences to meh :P And cat, how can a reaper (harvesters) be true neutral? I suggest you to make it Neutral Evil. And why is the level 13 league frozen? Well, even though I don't really agree with Cat's 'death is neutral' explination that's why they're neutral. 13 is frozen because the stronger characters didn't want to keep on fighting eachother over and over again.
kedi 04-14-04, 12:57 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Death is a neutral force, it comes for everything. Though I "like" the use of spontaneous cure spells while getting Chaotic Evil mounts to ride. Something about that just strikes me as not quite right. Death is neutral. To kill, it depends. To murder, it's evil. And even Chaotic. And azrael edscribed in one book is LE.
Myrridin 04-14-04, 01:39 PM	But other representations of Death has it as a neutral force. If something is the avatar (read representation) of a force, the avatar would follow the alignment of the force. Death (Harvester) is moving through the arena in an attempt to call those souls to it that are their time to die. Granted, I'm still not sure about casting cure spells spontaneously and using CE mounts and such, but I can see why the Harvester is in the arena as a TN character.
Jindl 04-14-04, 01:55 PM	Actually, from reading the role-play over the last year or so, the Harvester is in the arena, harvesting souls to increase its own power. It is not just calling those whose time has come, but it is killing others as well, collecting souls to increase its Master's power. This role-play is part of the reason I think the Harvester's should have an evil alignment. But, I've never thought it was a huge deal what alignment he was, we will kill him regardless of his alignment :D. -Jindl
Caterane 04-14-04, 02:04 PM	First of all, as already mentioned: death is absolute neutral. It doesn`t matter if you`re rich, poor, good, evil, or something else: death will finally get you. Then, the Forgotten Realms deity of death is neutral, too so that backs up my theory. Third, the Harvesters are not there just to slay people left and right but he came down to this center of mass ressurection which disrupts the natural life-death cycle. See him as an Inevitable (Marut), just not as a construct but an entity, a quasi-deitific being who can manifest avatars. If there should be any alignment shift at all, it would be lawful neutral (like Kelemvor, or the Marut) but that depends which way you look at it. In no way is he evil. He doesn`t do this for his own advantage, or for the pleasure of the kill; in fact he has no emotions at all. You could stand next to the Harvester and he wouldn`t do you any harm, no matter what you say or do (except attacking, of course). Now go and try this with lawful neutral Brackin... Edit: About the roleplaying, well see it that way: everyone has forfit his life because they all got ressurected at least once.
Myrridin 04-14-04, 02:09 PM	Cat: Yeah, that works, and I'm actually ok with that. I'm still saying that it also works to allow you the best of both worlds. It's better to be able to convert spells spontaneously to healing than to inflict, and you're riding undead things or Cauchmare's. If everyone has to forfit their life as they've died once, why's a Harvester still around after dying? :) No, just kidding, I know. It's a construct of it's Master's will.
kedi 04-14-04, 02:24 PM	Kelemvor is LN. Orcus is NE or CE. Boccob is LN. So death is either LN or NE.
kattattack22 04-14-04, 02:24 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril The villains are coming! I'm not sure if anyone else noticed this, but six out of eleven first level characters are evil. So for all you paladins out there, get ready. I think this is a good thing because it makes the arena more interesting. I guess it was good time to introduce Arkin with his mission of preserving life and stopping evil. (I will write a background that will explain when I get a chance.)
Caterane 04-14-04, 02:26 PM	Oh, and another thing: we have to make concessions here, or do you think a paladin would come here to fight for money? There are gladiators out there whose motivations are much more doubtful then the Harvester's (whom I think quite logical here). This is after all an arena tournament so you cannot copy&paste it 1 to 1 into a D&D campaign where something like this will never occur. If you want to complain about illogicallity then better start with other gladiators. IMO a discussion about the Harvester being lawful, neutral, or evil is a thin line while Skymoon slaying Paul Hector infront of thousands of spectators is not. BTW, my upcoming character will be chaotic evil. You`ll notice the difference then...
Myrridin 04-14-04, 02:27 PM	Originally posted by kedi Kelemvor is LN. Orcus is NE or CE. Boccob is LN. So death is either LN or NE. You mean we can't branch out and have gods of our own? If we have to follow those strictures, then we can't have clerics with no god in the arena. Death can be TN as well Kedi.
Pitlords 04-14-04, 02:32 PM	Pairings Are Posted. No more editing of sheets. 1. Submit tactics to your Pitlord by Friday. 2. Pitlords may begin running fights with tactics on Friday. 3. Pitlords may begin running fights on default tactics on Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. Good Luck! -Jind
MotherBast 04-14-04, 03:56 PM	Personaly, I have no problem with Harvy been Neutral. I see where Cat is comming from on that one. I play in GreyHawk, and 2 out of the 3 death gods are evil, the other is neutral, so a president does exist. The only problem I have with Harvy's RP is why would a diety who needs souls to gain power send his Avatar to a place where no matter how many times he killed someone they would come back? Seems to me he would never gain any souls, or any power, that way. I've actually wondered about that for a while. I just never got around to asking.
kedi 04-14-04, 04:54 PM	Tactics sent to CM. Geez, that was fast! :D
Mustadio[MoF] 04-14-04, 05:07 PM	Tactics sent to Kaigan for Pard vs Aramil
Caterane 04-14-04, 05:09 PM	@MB: The main reason is that Caterane may participate in the tournament. That said, you need to come up with a story, and I think the Harvester is a very reasonable addition to the CoCo. But to answer your question: the Harvester has no need to go to a normal place because death occurs naturally everywhere else. The souls just flow in at a steady pace. Unlike with the arena: here, he has to intervene and he does it by sending avatars to this place. He himself was blocked by an unknown force and had to remain on the Fugue Plane so the avatars have to draw upon souls to regain power, and with every soul the Harvester can channel more power into his avatars. We all know that there will always be a ressurection but if we see it that sober then why is there a roleplay thread at all? Let your fantasy fly. The Harvester - like many others too - wants to find out the reason behind this ressurrective power, the forces who are able to block powerful beings like himself, who are these mysterious pitlords who disrupt the cycle? And so on.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 04-14-04, 05:30 PM	I await tactics from Anouilh Lyn and TaggIIV.
Arstimis 04-14-04, 05:39 PM	Zaphod tactics have been sent to Caterane. Hungry anyone?
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 04-14-04, 05:52 PM	If you offer, so I do not mind ;). *Sticks his hand inside popcorn box and takes nice handfull of popcorns and starts to eat them.* Sended tactics early to Kaigan by PM and Email.
TaggIIV 04-14-04, 05:58 PM	working on various sets of tactics. can the spell shield of faith be cast before entering the arena or is the duration too short?
Pittbull 04-14-04, 06:03 PM	@Mercy: Tactics have been sent via e-mail, please confirm.
Ethendril 04-14-04, 06:04 PM	I'm not sure how anyone could get on Caterane's case for the Harvesters. Sure, the Harvesters would be one notch better channeling negative energy because it seems to fit better with the seraph of death. But Cat puts more into RP than 90% of the people here. Actually, he's got a cool story about Ixidor's weapons in the RP thread right now, and he's shared a little more of that story with me. I think that Cat's characters are driven mainly by fun RP elements, and that they are also very optimized. Plus, it's not a good idea to make fun of a Harvester.
Mercy 04-14-04, 06:17 PM	Originally posted by Pittbull @Mercy: Tactics have been sent via e-mail, please confirm. Tactics received
kattattack22 04-14-04, 06:24 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril it's not a good idea to make fun of a Harvester. LOL, how true. @Kedi - Arkin's tatics vs. Shiaan have been sent.
Beldin 04-14-04, 06:25 PM	@captain mutilate: tactics have been send via email! take the second email, the first tactic was not complete thx
freemoody 04-14-04, 06:44 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Tagg: Hey thanks!! That helps me greatly. But there are some states missing: :angel: LOL!! Good one Caterane! My tactics for Lillith have been sent to Aramil Dunskar by e-mail and PM.
Kaigan 04-14-04, 07:00 PM	*dang double post*
Kaigan 04-14-04, 07:02 PM	@Kazzaroth: Received tactics for Kazeira. @Mustadio[Mof]: Received tactics for Pard. @Arstimis: Sent tactics for Matei via email. @Magaguma: Sent tactics for Enilias via email. @Aramil and Market_share: Awaiting tactics for aramil and sven
Ethendril 04-14-04, 07:03 PM	@Motherbast: Tactics sent for Dusk. Please let me know if you have any questions. -Ethendril
TaggIIV 04-14-04, 07:50 PM	@Kazzaroth: tactics for Khoir sent over PM. ~~ working on sharptooth as well, i'll have his tactics sent soon as well.
TaggIIV 04-14-04, 08:31 PM	@Arstimis: tactics for Sharptooth PMd
daemones 04-14-04, 09:26 PM	@Limit: Tactics sent via PM. I tried to send them via email, but my browser flaked on me so I'm not sure if they went through. They should be identical, regardless.
Limit 04-15-04, 01:13 AM	@daemones: Tactics received
Hatzinger 04-15-04, 03:46 AM	@Arstimis tactics for Heinrich sent. please confirm. @Caterane tactics for Oetzi sent. please confirm.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 04-15-04, 04:42 AM	TaggIIV: Tactics received. Waiting for tactics from Anouilh Lyn. If I do not get them at least to sunday, I use default tactics.
TaggIIV 04-15-04, 09:01 AM	*checks email* Oh. well Tactics for Smergel + Gyle recieved.
Myrridin 04-15-04, 10:41 AM	Hatzinger: Tactics for Zephin sent.
TaggIIV 04-15-04, 10:59 AM	Originally posted by TaggIIV *checks email* Oh. well Tactics for Smergel + Gyle recieved. aight.. i rolled and typed up the fight in notepad.. and saved it.. can i post it up whenever or should I wait until friday?
Jindl 04-15-04, 11:02 AM	Originally posted by TaggIIV aight.. i rolled and typed up the fight in notepad.. and saved it.. can i post it up whenever or should I wait until friday? Well, the main reason to wait til Friday is to give people a chance to send in tactics / or modify the ones they already sent in. But, if Alterlat and Smergel didn't have any last minute changes to make to their tactics, then I'm sure it would be fine to go ahead an post the fight. (I doubt they had any changes, so go ahead and post.) -Jindl
TaggIIV 04-15-04, 11:17 AM	aight, cool. smergel vs. private gyle posted. Spoiler: the fight was really LONG! *teehee*
Arstimis 04-15-04, 11:33 AM	Tactics received from Hatzinger and Kaigan
Limit 04-15-04, 01:33 PM	@cellardweller: Tactics received, replied with a clarification question.
Hatzinger 04-15-04, 02:25 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Hatzinger: Tactics for Zephin sent. ...and received.
barrel_master 04-15-04, 02:54 PM	Every other post involves someone saying 'tactics sent'. I guess I'll join in. SNARK! TACTICS SENT FOR PAUL. I HOPE IT MAKES SENSE!!!!!!
SnarkHunter 04-15-04, 02:59 PM	Yeah I got them (and only yours so far), they look fine. I'll try to have Donkey's sent out tonight or tomorrow.
Magagumo 04-15-04, 03:46 PM	@kaigan Enilias's tactics recieved @MB As I have little time to run a fight this weekend, I'll need tactics by 7 PM EST. Let me know if this is impossible. @Mercy Working on Tori's tactics now, I apologize ahead of time for any rules I will reiterate for which you are already familiar, but between sundering and miss chances, Tori's fights begin to get tricky.
Caterane 04-15-04, 04:32 PM	Tactics sent for the Harvester and Ixidor. Tactics received from Oetzi and Zaphod Beeblebrox. Please send the missing tactics as soon as possible, per email.
Arstimis 04-15-04, 05:50 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Tactics sent for the Harvester and Ixidor. Tactics received from Oetzi and Zaphod Beeblebrox. Please send the missing tactics as soon as possible, per email. You got it :D
Jindl 04-15-04, 05:57 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Tactics sent for the Harvester and Ixidor. I emailed a response to Ixidor's tactics. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 04-15-04, 08:00 PM	Tactics for Donkey sent just now
Mercy 04-15-04, 08:20 PM	@hatzinger - Tactics sent for Jo'Li
MotherBast 04-15-04, 09:10 PM	Mag: I wont be able to get tactics out untill tommorow night. Sorry, but I was on the golf course all day today after work. I just got home, and have to get some sleep for work tommorow, but I'll send tactics when I get home, maybe I can get them to you before 7 tommarow.
Hatzinger 04-16-04, 06:04 AM	Originally posted by Mercy @hatzinger - Tactics sent for Jo'Li ... and received.
Caterane 04-16-04, 06:15 AM	@Mag & Snark: Please link all your fights so far with Bruno and Bilo. I am going to audit them and it`s really difficult to browse through hundreds of fights, especially since you don`t even have a fight record!? I`ll begin now anyway, but there may be additional audits in future so the sooner you do this the better. @all: Please link the fights at the bottom of your sheet. That makes it easier to check your sheets. Do this as soon as possible. It is a requirement and an important part of your sheet so you might get a *violation* tag if this is missing. Some of you don`t even have a record at all. The record should show these informations: #fight, link to the fight; Name of opponoment (owner optional), result (win/loss); Pitlord is optional. Here`s an example: Arena Combat Record 01: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1494362#post1494362) Maril the Lighthearted:........HARVESTED 02: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1611158#post1611158) Bruno Willikens:...............Failed to harvest 03: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1675496#post1675496) Octavian Cesar:................HARVESTED 04: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1729801#post1729801) Buttmunch the Ridiculous:......HARVESTED 05: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1781791#post1781791) Mara Thunderstorm:.............HARVESTED 06: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1854821#post1854821) Eniolissaryn the Elder:........Failed to harvest 07: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1893331#post1893331) Iron the Panza:................Failed to harvest 08: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?postid=1958083#post195808 3) Octavian Cesar:................HARVESTED 09: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2042743#post2042743) Bilo Darkleaf:.................HARVESTED 10: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2079040#post2079040) Bruno Willikens:...............Failed to harvest 11: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2131241#post2131241) Bilo Darkleaf:.................HARVESTED 12: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158208) Nightmare cauchemar:...........HARVESTED 13: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?postid=2359247#post235924 7) Eniolyssaryn the Elder:........HARVESTED 14: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2420948#post2420948) Skymoon Moonbow:...............HARVESTED 15: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2479301#post2479301) Jindl of the Highforest:.......HARVESTED 16: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2589413#post2589413) Iron the Panza:................HARVESTED 17: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2649089#post2649089) Nightmare cauchemar:...........HARVESTED
Myrridin 04-16-04, 09:53 AM	Tactics for Kage Nightwind (Battousai) and Aiki Auk (Rayne) have not been received yet.
Beldin 04-16-04, 10:39 AM	is it not unfair that the ecl 2 or more creatures get as much money as a "normal" gladiator COULD have at that level? gladiators often have spent much of their money already to get his far, if they have lost sometimes even more money is spent ( on healing, scrolls and the like). this results in ecl 2+ creatures having better equipment than "normal" gladiators at the same lever; so they have a greater change to win - unfair in my opinion
kattattack22 04-16-04, 10:53 AM	@Beldin- Everyone gets that same amount of money when starting so its fair in that respect. Also while they may have spent some money, they could possibly gotten more than that even with expenditures. I think that some expeniditures are factored into the PC Wealth by level.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 04-16-04, 11:08 AM	Originally posted by Beldin is it not unfair that the ecl 2 or more creatures get as much money as a "normal" gladiator COULD have at that level? gladiators often have spent much of their money already to get his far, if they have lost sometimes even more money is spent ( on healing, scrolls and the like). this results in ecl 2+ creatures having better equipment than "normal" gladiators at the same lever; so they have a greater change to win - unfair in my opinion Think also this perpective, a 1lvl drow mroe likely lose a 3lvl human in 3lvl league. So they ar elittle more difficult position in lvl wise (so henceworth they need the money what they got).
Myrridin 04-16-04, 11:18 AM	Beldin: I see your argument, but creatures with an ECL tend to have fewer HP, a lower BAB, and a reduced Caster Level compared to non-ECL creatures. Those can be fairly major factors in a fight. A half-fiend may have the gold of a 5th level character, but their HP is the same as a first level character...that hurts at 5th level.
Beldin 04-16-04, 11:34 AM	yet wotc thinks them to be equal to a normal 5th level character, otherwise they would have an lower ecl
Myrridin 04-16-04, 11:57 AM	Yet WOTC game designers have said repeatedly that they intentionally overvalued ECL/LA characters in order to make them less attractive to PC's compared to the PHB races. a 5th level half-fiend can be killed by one bow critical. If they're a fighter with a really high CON, the half-fiend may have 15 HP. Longbow+1 (+2 Str), easily within reach, that's about 2400 gold, out of 9000. The Half-fiend is dead on a crit. 3d8+6 means that average damage knocks it out of the air, if it's flying, then there's the falling damage. They're not equal to a character of the same level. They're cool, and have good powers, but they're (for the most part) not quite at the same power level as a non-LA character.
Jindl 04-16-04, 11:59 AM	A couple of things: 1. The starting gp and gp awarded for winning are based off of the wealth by level chart in the DMG. A characters appropriate wealth by level is calculated based off of the ECL of the character and is supposed to account for current wealth (irregardless of previous expenditures). However, this is not fully represented in the CoCo, because previous expenditures are not recouped when you advance a level (ie, Brackin who drank lots of potions won't have as much wealth at level 13 as Jindl who almost never used any resources). There is a good reason for this, since it helps to offset the power of 1-shot items in the 1-fight/1-level set-up of the CoCo. 2. When determining the appropraite LA (and thus starting ECL) for a nonstandard race, the WoTC designers were not only considering the power of a (to use your example) level 1 Half-fiend compared to a level 5 human. They had to compare the higher levels too (ie a level 16 half-fiend compared to a level 20 human). In short, ECL creatures tend to be weaker than normals of the same ECL at lower levels, and more powerful than normals of that ECL at higher levels. Of course this is a generalization, with a few exceptions. 3. If you take a look at the track record of the ECL creatures in the arena, either they lose a bunch (Donkey, Kazzaroth, my old gladiator Karse, Akordia, etc.) or they hit a winning combination and they are quite powerful (Anna, Kiri, Aku). Still, even those with a winning combination can easily be beaten by a bad roll or two, as they are not very durable (indeed, each of these winners lost to a couple of hits because they had much less hps or lower saves than their opponents). I made this statement once, several months ago, and I still believe it to be true: Using an ECL gladiator is far more challenging than playing one of the standard races. Your reduced bab/saves/skills/hps, as well as your delayed feat/spell/ability score increase progressions, require near perfect tactics and solid optimization. It is very difficult to play an ECL gladiator and be successful, especially in the lower levels. Of course, with the number of pitlords we have who are gaining credits, you may certainly test my statement for yourselves. -Jindl
^Rayne^ 04-16-04, 12:00 PM	Tactics for Aiki Auk sent Myrridin.
Myrridin 04-16-04, 12:12 PM	Jindl: Thank you for explaining it better than I did. :) Rayne: Tactics received for Aiki. Still waiting to receive tactics for Kage from Battousai.
kedi 04-16-04, 12:17 PM	Posted the fight. Spoiler: yess my queen.
Myrridin 04-16-04, 12:26 PM	kedi: Check this week's fight violations/concerns.
Beldin 04-16-04, 01:04 PM	@jindl & myrridin: convincing arguments! i'll test it out on my own, someday;) my first gladiator, aemon, has some useless skills( and unused) is it possible to redistribute these skillpoints?
Magagumo 04-16-04, 02:15 PM	@Cat Personally, I've never known how to accurately link within a page without ending up with an enormous, illegible title. If you could do a quick demo of how to state "Fight 01" and having that phrase become a link to the fight, then I can have that fixed up in the next weeks (Next week is a terror for me, with 3 papers and a presentation on my Senior Comprehensive Project, but I promise I'll get it done eventually.) Also, I've begun to list Win/Loss records w/ Toreilison, and will do so for Bruno and Zorander in due time. @Jindl I have to agree with your assessment- Tori vs. Angosh (also ECL, but a lower one) was enormously difficult to plan for, as he has superior strength, damage, and tricks. I look to the future with Tori, because she needs a few more levels to start picking up her fun tricks, that and the fact that she has yet to fight a caster, against whom the yuan-ti race was designed to be unfriendly (Her SR ain't bad). I noticed that Ixidor is under a similar situation, with Cat pulling a nasty trick with the sundering (Though I think we need to avoid ignoring hardness on weapons w/o using adamantine, that's not v. balanced), but otherwise, our angel has low base attack and low hp (good Con, but that only goes so far). As a straight paladin/monk, Cat would likely have equal or better saves, and certainly be tougher, but he's a clever player, so Ixidor works. Donkey is rising to the challenge (finally) having begun to enjoy the benefit of spells. Anna is happily prepared to drain ability scores and hurl swords (once again, one of Jindl's characters dominated due to rules misinterpretations, but they manage to still hold their own when such difficulties are ironed out ;)). And Kiri was simply a vicious beast, though I'm sorry so many Mods hated running her. By level 10, I expect all of the listed characters (some of whom are already there) will begin to really show their true strengths. Remember, a mind flayer at 15th level is merely alright, but a mind flayer with 5 levels of hexblade/paladin are quite nasty :-D.
Jindl 04-16-04, 02:48 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Anna is happily prepared to drain ability scores and hurl swords (once again, one of Jindl's characters dominated due to rules misinterpretations, but they manage to still hold their own when such difficulties are ironed out ;)). Hrmph. I recall Bruno defeating Jindl in their last meeting using the same misinterpreted rules for TK (hurling an iron boulder when Jindl was far out of range.) If you wish, Anna will happily take on Zorander in next weeks pairings, and defeat him without throwing swords. -Jindl @Caterane - Tactics sent for Aku via PM.
Myrridin 04-16-04, 02:52 PM	*sigh* With all of the Spell Resistant critters showing up in the arena, I may have to put off going towards Archmage with Zephin. I guess I might take Spell Penetration sometime soon...damn it. :P
Caterane 04-16-04, 03:06 PM	@Mag: There are three steps to do this, though it sounds far more complicated than it actually is. [list=1] Open a seperate window where your fight was posted. If you move your mouse cursor over the quote button (don`t click on it!) you`ll see a number at the lower task bar. Memorize it. Go to the roster, down at the bottom is this link: "http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=number#postnumber". Mark it and copy it (CRTL+C). Go to Bruno's character sheet. Click "Edit". In the reply screen, there`s a button called "http://" --> click on it (use left mouse button :P ). A small window will open, asking you: "Enter the text to be displayed for the link (optional)". Enter the text (Fight 01 or something). Return. Then you have to paste the link from the roster (CRTL+V). But instead of where "number" is written you have to enter the memorized number instead. [/list=1] Hope this helps. Try it out before ruining Bruno's sheet :)
SnarkHunter 04-16-04, 03:08 PM	Hey Mag, (and anyone else who cares) I think I have it figured out. Use the format bellow which I will now explain Format for single fight link <url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=XXXXXXX#postXXXXXXX>BLAH BLAH BLAH!</url>. Replace the two sets X's with the post ID of the fight you are trying to link too. This will be the same number for each X. The easiest way to find out what the post ID # is, is to track down your fight in the Fight folder and hit the quote button. When you do that aproximatly the following will appear in the address bar http://boards1.wizards.com/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=1135446 The number I've bolded is the post ID #. Replace the <>'s with []'s. Replace BLAH BLAH BLAH! with something like "Fight 01: This is the fight where I was held down and molested by large black tentacles" or something to that effect. When its all done it should look like this: Fight 00 (His cousin Milo's debut against the one, the only, ALATHAR VIERCE! Ouch (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=1135446#post1135446) Feel free to quote that and modify as I've directed. Enjoy!
kedi 04-16-04, 03:21 PM	Why not making a “Fights Comments and Concerns” thread, instead of creating a new one every week?
Caterane 04-16-04, 03:48 PM	Ah, Milo Darkleaf. Far more likeable than Bilo. Here`s an excerpt from the upcoming CoCo World thread about him: • Milo Darkleaf [CN,Hlf,Rog1/Evo1], some say he was the beginning of the end because his death brought one of the vilest beings to the arena: his evil brother Bilo. Milo is dead and hasn`t been raised though some gossips say that Milo just took on another disguise and that it`s still the same person.
daemones 04-16-04, 04:22 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter The easiest way to find out what the post ID # is, is to track down your fight in the Fight folder and hit the quote button. When you do that aproximatly the following will appear in the address bar http://boards1.wizards.com/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=1135446 Browser dependant, you can mouseover the quote button and look in the status bar at the bottom; same thing without needing to load the quote-post page.
JonahBlack 04-16-04, 06:00 PM	Tactics for Grimlock sent
Magagumo 04-16-04, 06:13 PM	@Jindl Tut, tut, old bean, I believe Cat worked to avoid the super-boulder from occuring again, and it wasn't the fact that she could throw so many swords (excellent tactic, very well-toughout), but the difficulty that people did not realize that one couldn't apply sneak attack damage with each weapon and that Anna needed to take a round to switch from moving the swords to throwing them, thus allowing observant/high mobility characters the potential of escaping from the highly visible group of swords. This occurence is similar to the very power Dozen issue, the horse who scared most combatants away in the earlier levels. *Shrug* Mistakes happen, sometimes by one Mod, sometimes Arena-wide, but I know that when my vrocks use Telekinesis to hurl massive boulders at my party members, they are doing so correctly, thanks to my expereinces here at the Coliseum. :) As for the not using swords, I would expect that the tricky Anna ghost would skip by using weapons that may miss the ne'r off-balanced human, and go straight for his low self-esteem ;). I'll have to decline, of course, as Tori is my sole combatant until academics stop trying to "murder me dead." @MB I sent an email reply to you re: tactics. I see that you have allowed for issues with your tactics, so the fight will be run as is at 7 if any further tactics modificiations are not sent.
MotherBast 04-16-04, 06:52 PM	Mag, I sent a response.
Magagumo 04-16-04, 07:03 PM	And I have sent another Edit: And another ;)
MotherBast 04-16-04, 07:12 PM	and I curse the gods for their foul taunting.
MotherBast 04-16-04, 07:20 PM	Druid, I need your tactics by tomarrow morning please.
Kaigan 04-16-04, 07:33 PM	i have a question: when a gladiator has a warhorse, and he is knocked unconsious by another gladiator. (he is put into negative hp), does the horse continue fighting, or does the still living gladiator win there?
Beldin 04-16-04, 08:16 PM	@kaigan: qoute from the srd: Mounted combat If You Are Dropped: If you are knocked unconscious, you have a 50% chance to stay in the saddle (or 75% if you’re in a military saddle). Otherwise you fall and take 1d6 points of damage. Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat. so the mount would run away from the threat, the other gladiator would win ( as my gladiator aemon had in his last fight)
freemoody 04-16-04, 08:18 PM	Let's say you don't want your current feats, and you haven't used them at all in your fights. Can you switch them? Lillith changed her mind about being a summoner.
MotherBast 04-16-04, 08:35 PM	Beldin is right, with the slight exception that if the mount knows the Defend trick it will defend its master against any attackers. So as long as the knocked out rider is not at -10, the mount will continue to defend him, and the opponit will not win untill he hits -10.
Limit 04-16-04, 09:11 PM	Posted Irwin vs. Catherine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3165033#post3165033) My first fight, so be gentle with the criticism.
Magagumo 04-16-04, 09:13 PM	Dra'kel vs. Enilias soon to be posted When tactics break down early, bad things happen.
Jindl 04-16-04, 09:16 PM	Originally posted by Limit Posted Irwin vs. Catherine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3165033#post3165033) My first fight, so be gentle with the criticism. Please see the "Fights of the Week" thread. @All - Archangel Ixidor hunts the 5-headed Hydra is posted. Enjoy! -Jindl
Mercy 04-16-04, 11:13 PM	@One of the Elder Mods: I looked for the general lighting conditions of the arena and couldn't find anything on it. I know that the lighting condition of the arena calls for no negatives or positives to a character unless the lighting condition is changed by the opponent. My question is, are there natural shadows in the arena? I thought at one time the columns had torches attached to them to provide shadows, but I didn't see any reference to it anywhere. tia
Jindl 04-17-04, 12:05 AM	There are not enough shadows to provide concealment in the arena. However, for the shadowdancer HiPS special ability, it is assumed that there is a shadow at each rock/column, thus the shadowdancer can hide within 10 feet of any rock/column. Does that answer your question? -Jindl
SnarkHunter 04-17-04, 02:02 AM	Bilo's fight record updated. Not to hard once I got a system down. That system involved a lot of copy and paste...
Arstimis 04-17-04, 03:38 AM	Heinrich vs. Sharptooth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3167729#post3167729) has been completed.
Mercy 04-17-04, 06:11 AM	Originally posted by Jindl There are not enough shadows to provide concealment in the arena. However, for the shadowdancer HiPS special ability, it is assumed that there is a shadow at each rock/column, thus the shadowdancer can hide within 10 feet of any rock/column. Does that answer your question? -Jindl Yes
Caterane 04-17-04, 10:13 AM	Enilias vs Drak'something: That was a most interessting fight with cool offensive tactics and I enjoyed it to the last round. All too often we read fights where opponoments buff for 10 rounds and the fight is finished in round 12. This fight remembers me on Skymoon vs Jindl (7) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1800554#post1800554), one of the most entertaining fights on the thread where the outcome was decided in the very last round! Just wanted to say this. Storywriting: A little story should be in every fight. Just posting the rolls is soooo boring. I did this once or twice myself because sometimes you don´t have much time but especially the low levels fights are so plain and unentertaining sometimes that I just scroll down to the end. You don`t have to write a novel but a little sidestory, or a bit of flavor adds much to the fight. New gladiators: And lastly, I noticed that so many low level characters disappear after 2 fights. Why not keep them for a while? Give the build a chance. Ebelin, my first character was so badly build, Weapon ficus Longsword when I never wielded one, and similar mistakes, but I`ll keep him and he`ll fight again one time because I like the character. The amount of retirements on the lower levels makes it really uninteresting to track their progression - knowing that they may have disappeared anyway in a week. I remember the times when I jumped up as soon as "New character posted" was anounced! "Let`s see, hm, Iron the Panza, looks promising." or "Oh, the Elder! That will be a tough one sooner or later!". Cat
Myrridin 04-17-04, 10:25 AM	Tactics for both gladiators received.
Jindl 04-17-04, 10:42 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Enilias vs Drak'something: That was a most interessting fight with cool offensive tactics and I enjoyed it to the last round. All too often we read fights where opponoments buff for 10 rounds and the fight is finished in round 12. This fight remembers me on Skymoon vs Jindl (7) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1800554#post1800554), one of the most entertaining fights on the thread where the outcome was decided in the very last round! Just wanted to say this. It remined me of Jindl's first match against Ebelin, you know, the one where Jindl summoned a bunch of hippogryphs ... Ebelin vs Jindl (6) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1733578#post1733578) -Jindl
MotherBast 04-17-04, 10:42 AM	Dusk vs. Cori is done. All 30 rounds of it. Might take me a while to get it posted. and like I told Mag, yall just remember who first used burrow when all the druids start doing it.
Caterane 04-17-04, 10:48 AM	Hmrpf, don`t remind me of that one :mad: The most crushing defeat I ever got ...and ever will.
Jindl 04-17-04, 10:55 AM	That kind of thing shouldn't happen again, now that people know that protection from alignment potions will protect you from summons. If Ebelin had one of those potions (or simply had memorized the spell), then those hippogryphs would have been totally ineffective, and the fight would have gone totally different. -Jindl
TaggIIV 04-17-04, 11:05 AM	oo.. protection from (alignment) potions eh.. thats a pretty neat idea.. *goes to add a few potions to to-get list*
Magagumo 04-17-04, 11:17 AM	Hehe I do believe that was MB's stated lesson for Enilias.. pick up those alignment potions ASAP ;) @ Cat Iron caught me completely off-guard. One minute he was 2nd level, the next he had been catching up (maybe passed?) Bruno. Tori's looking to be a slower start, but at least I'll have Zorander's amazing first two fights. Of course, all these young archer Turks (like Enilias) do more damage and have their high-mobility mounts, but we'll see what happens when you don't put ranks in Spot!! :P Of course, clerics, aasimar, and Ixidor are excluded from such requirements *shakes fist*
Jindl 04-17-04, 11:24 AM	And druids (faerie fire) and ghosts (UMD with a wand of faerie fire). And wizards (glitterdust) and ... :D -Jindl
MotherBast 04-17-04, 01:49 PM	Finaly the fight is posted. I continued the story Cat started. I'm not good with links, so just scroll back to the first fight between these two if you need a refresher.
Ethendril 04-17-04, 03:01 PM	MotherBast: Thanks for running the fight. I really enjoyed your story, and liked how you tied it in with our last battle. Great job.
Caterane 04-17-04, 03:34 PM	Cool fight, Motherbast. And a guest appearance from the Harvester :cloud9: well, at least mentioned in name BTW, here`s the link to the prequel (prequel? Can I say that?) Dusk vs Corinthius, Part 1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3031608#post3031608) I`ll run my fights tomorow. Weather was too fine and the hemlines were going up today
kattattack22 04-17-04, 03:35 PM	For crafting feats if you are a multiclass spellcaster do all of your caster levels count for the prerequisite or does the higher of the two have to meet the prereq?
Jindl 04-17-04, 03:56 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 For crafting feats if you are a multiclass spellcaster do all of your caster levels count for the prerequisite or does the higher of the two have to meet the prereq? In all things, caster level is counted seperately for each class. You never get to add them together (within the core rules). -Jindl
freemoody 04-17-04, 04:00 PM	Did we ever agree on a name for the World in which ArenaTown resides. How about Areana Land. @Cat: Prequel is correct.
Battousai2005 04-17-04, 07:42 PM	Well, its been a week now. Sorry to all. I was away on a church trip in Mexico. Hope you all missed me!:angel: So, did Arti ever send my fight tactics? I forewarded them to him to send to my mod, who looks to be Myrridin. @Myrridin: I hope that post at the top is in regards to my tactics. @Pitlords: I'm gonna bump Akordia to Lev 3, if its OK with everyone.
Battousai2005 04-17-04, 07:51 PM	I'm gonna re-ask this question as it was never really adressed: Can you buy a creature as an egg and still use it as an ally? Arstimis said something about training, but that was kind of vauge.
Mercy 04-17-04, 07:55 PM	Toreilison vs. Angosh is posted
Kaigan 04-17-04, 08:12 PM	All I can really say is Druids Rock I should have Pard vs. Aramil up very soon. Kaseira vs. Sven will be up later tonight or tomorrow,ok.
Ethendril 04-17-04, 08:21 PM	Quick question: Can specific armors (such as mithril full plate of speed or celestial armor) be further upgraded (like mithril full plate of speed +3 or +5)?
Battousai2005 04-17-04, 08:23 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Quick question: Can specific armors (such as mithril full plate of speed or celestial armor) be further upgraded (like mithril full plate of speed +3 or +5)? Good question. I do not believe so. It would make a few things a bit unbalanced. Still, my votes don't seem to count much...
Kaigan 04-17-04, 08:46 PM	Ok i posted Pard vs. Aramil. Hope there was nothing wrong. Long fight. Oh... and as advised by Magagumo... My Pegasus died in Enilias vs. Dra'kel, do i get him ressurected for free or must i buy a new one? Oh and Jindl i would only like one fight per week from now on if that is ok. I have a lot of work in the next weeks. AP tests primarily. Oh how i hate them. Well if someone could critique the fight, and answer the question above i would be very grateful. and good job with the fight Mag. and nice tactics MB, never even thought you would have done that. There goes my winning streak:sad:
Battousai2005 04-17-04, 08:50 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan Ok i posted Pard vs. Aramil. Hope there was nothing wrong. Long fight. Oh... and as advised by Magagumo... My Pegasus died in Enilias vs. Dra'kel, do i get him ressurected for free or must i buy a new one? Oh and Jindl i would only like one fight per week from now on if that is ok. I have a lot of work in the next weeks. AP tests primarily. Oh how i hate them. Well if someone could critique the fight, and answer the question above i would be very grateful. and good job with the fight Mag. and nice tactics MB, never even thought you would have done that. There goes my winning streak:sad: You have to buy a new one. I would like to make the same request. I doubt I am going to have a whole lot of time. Still, I only have 1 AP test as opposed to Kaigan's 5.
Battousai2005 04-17-04, 09:00 PM	Ok, question again. If there is a prerequisite for a spell or prestige class, can you do it outside of the arena? If it is drastic, does it matter?
MotherBast 04-17-04, 09:03 PM	If its RP, you can do it outside of the Arena. If it involves a roll it must be done inside the arena. If your taling about reqs like the assassins "killing someone", that can be done outside the arena.
Battousai2005 04-17-04, 09:15 PM	Much thanks, MB. Now, can someone ansawr my other question? Can you buy an egg and still use it in the arena. I understand there is supposedly a limitless amount of time between fights, but I don't know the rules on this.
Mustadio[MoF] 04-17-04, 09:26 PM	>.< Pard lost vs. a range less opponet.......... that is his 3rd loss at that lvl, is he clear to lvl up?
MotherBast 04-17-04, 09:27 PM	yea, you can buy the egg, but if you don't have the ranks in Handly animal to rear it then you have to pay to have it trained.
Kaigan 04-17-04, 10:00 PM	so no more pegasus? sorry Bat, but i would like an elder mod to tell me no before i accept it. I know i'm stubborn but hey, so what.
kattattack22 04-18-04, 02:57 AM	Originally posted by Jindl In all things, caster level is counted seperately for each class. You never get to add them together (within the core rules). -Jindl Thank you for clarifying. Never isn't exactly true since the Magic Domain treats 1/2 cleric caster level as wizard caster levels for scrolls, wands, and other spell completion items and stacks with wizard levels. That is why I asked.
SnarkHunter 04-18-04, 03:33 AM	Yeah no mount. SO tired. I'll try to run fight tomorrow though (tomorrow is now! At least the sun hasn't risen yet.) Hey cat you never really said why you were reviewing Bruno+Bilo's fights (I call em the Killer Bee's!. I'd be happy with a few dire+vague proclamations though.
Caterane 04-18-04, 06:21 AM	@Snark: My stomach says that you cheat, lie and betray so I have to check them :D No, seriously, we`re currently auditing all characters. Well, it`s mainly Tellish's job but since he`s not here at the moment I`m gonna take the two evil ones. Hey, why you ask? And why`s your forehead so wet? :uh-huh: About my earlier hemlines going up comment: our scottish friends should better ignore it :D I`m updating the roster now: Pard and Akkordia bumped, correct?
daemones 04-18-04, 06:45 AM	I'm under the impression that you can sell items back for 1/2 market value. Does this mean that you can sell back crafted armor / weapons for the same that it cost to create them?
MotherBast 04-18-04, 07:52 AM	Currently purchased mounts must be repurchased if they die. This is one of the issues being looked at in the "allies" debate, which has stalled and hasen't actually been debated for several weeks now. I hope that myself and the rest of the elders can come to an agreement on this issue quickly.
TaggIIV 04-18-04, 08:32 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Ok, question again. If there is a prerequisite for a spell or prestige class, can you do it outside of the arena? If it is drastic, does it matter? on that same note, for blackguard what spell would you need to summon the appropriate monster?
SnarkHunter 04-18-04, 10:09 AM	@cat: You wound me sir. @daemones-yes thats correct. The exception of course is crafted magic items since in the arena those are only 7/10 market price to craft. @TaggIIV; Hmm never noticed that req. before. I'd say it happens for free (there are plenty of evil outsider walking around these parts :).)
Jindl 04-18-04, 10:39 AM	I'd like to comment on some things :D : Originally posted by Ethendril Quick question: Can specific armors (such as mithril full plate of speed or celestial armor) be further upgraded (like mithril full plate of speed +3 or +5)? As Battousai answered, no. You cannot alter specific armors and weapons. Not even to raise the mighty strength value of an Oathbow. The specific armors and weapons exist only as listed in the DMG. Originally posted by Kaigan Ok i posted Pard vs. Aramil. Hope there was nothing wrong. Long fight. Oh... and as advised by Magagumo... My Pegasus died in Enilias vs. Dra'kel, do i get him ressurected for free or must i buy a new one? Oh and Jindl i would only like one fight per week from now on if that is ok. I have a lot of work in the next weeks. AP tests primarily. Oh how i hate them. Well if someone could critique the fight, and answer the question above i would be very grateful. Please take a minute and look at the "Fights of the Week" thread, where I posted something about CDG's and AoO's, and how one causes another :D. As for the Pegasus, MotherBast is right. The current ruling is that slain allies must be reaquired in the same manner they were originally acquired. So a purchased mount has to be re-purchased. There is currently some debate (and hopefully a vote soon) on this topic. I hope we (the Elders) decide to do away with non-purchased, non-class feature, non-leadership allies (basically eliminating handle animal allies and animated dead allies, and something we haven't seen yet, the rebuked/commanded allies. If that is the case, then the only allies would be those for Druids/Paladins/Rangers/Sorcerors/Wizards/Blackguards/Thaumaturgists (all class features), and purchased creatures (a limited list in the PHB/MM), and cohorts from Leadership. This would also do away with the need for monster fights, as all allies would be acquired automatically or by purhcasing them. If this is the case, we may also allow the free ressurection of allies (which really only affects the purchased creatures). Well, that's what I'm voting for anyway. Originally posted by TaggIIV on that same note, for blackguard what spell would you need to summon the appropriate monster? It says you must make peaceful contact with an evil outsider summoned by yourself or someone else. The lowest level spell that summons an evil outsider is Summon Monster II (summons a Lemure). So, either cast that yourself or pay an evil cleric/bard/wizard to cast it for you. Don't assume that the NPC caster will do it for free. FYI: It only costs 60 gp to pay the cleric/wizard to cast it, its slightly more to pay the bard. -Jindl
Magagumo 04-18-04, 12:52 PM	I'm curious as to why we aren't allowing upgrades of specific armor? They actually follow a fairly normal progression, with an easily-calculated additional cost to reflect their special abilities. Frankly, one could upgrade them by paying the difference in cost to their enchancements, so a +1 mithral fullplate of speed would cost 24000 gp to upgrade to a +5, just like any armor. For the Oathbow, I can understand not adjusting Strength bonuses, but magical enhancements are easy to make, and it wouldn't be unreasonable for a character to want to upgrade their Assassin's Blade beyond a +1 when they are, say, higher than 6 or 7th level. Honestly now, the specific armors and weapons aren't that different from their generic bretheren, so why pidgeonhole people into avoiding the Sunblade, just because they anticipate the need for having a +5 weapon eventually? On a different note, Toreilison accepts Enilias's challenge. I presume you do not have the cash for a new pegasus, Kaigan? (Your sheet hasn't been adjusted)
SnarkHunter 04-18-04, 01:38 PM	Paul and grimlock duke it out in a radioactive wasteland- right here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3178440#post3178440).
Magagumo 04-18-04, 01:51 PM	In reference to my post on upgrading items: After re-examining the mithral fullplate of speed, I'm retracting my earlier statement- either their numbers are off, and the enchancement bonus was treated like a +1 weapon cost (2000 x 1.5=3000 gp), or they're using what I like to term "crazy math." But yea, as the price of 26500 go can be broken down to 15000 for both speed and the +1, I can't find a way to make the two mesh nicely, based on any rules provided in the book. Sorry Ethendril, looks like these things remain static. @Snark (Guess we'll have to fix the Zelekhut's full plate, aye? Ah well, more cash is good for him..)
Caterane 04-18-04, 02:14 PM	@Snarky: :rofl: :thumbsup:
Magagumo 04-18-04, 03:20 PM	@Fight/Game Masters This week is definetely going to be a hell week (three papers!) so no fights for me, Torieilison is ready to go, provided she doesn't roll-out.
Pitlords 04-18-04, 03:55 PM	I once again want to point out that you have to set a link to all of your fights at the bottom of your sheet! This is a necessity from now on because it will greatly ease up the auditing of your sheets. You don`t have to do it at once but it would be good to do it within the next two or three weeks. If you have any questions on how to link your fights, please ask! We`ll gladly help you. The arrangement should look like this: "01", opponoment (player), result The "01" should be the link actually but a variation is ok too. Thanks - Cat
Kaigan 04-18-04, 04:19 PM	posted Kazeira vs. Sven hope its okay
barrel_master 04-18-04, 04:58 PM	Originally posted by Pitlords I once again want to point out that you have to set a link to all of your fights at the bottom of your sheet! This is a necessity from now on because it will greatly ease up the auditing of your sheets. You don`t have to do it at once but it would be good to do it within the next two or three weeks. If you have any questions on how to link your fights, please ask! We`ll gladly help you. The arrangement should look like this: The "01" should be the link actually but a variation is ok too. Thanks - Cat I'm in the process of fixing up all my guys... unfortunately it may take a while.
Arstimis 04-18-04, 05:35 PM	Matei vs. Nivek has been posted Here it is. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3180480#post3180480) I feel bad for the loser
Kaigan 04-18-04, 07:28 PM	@Arstimis: Just for the record, Matei is human, not elf. @Battousai: Lady luck really does love doesn't she. Well i guess not so much as you think. you did see Enilias vs. Dra'kel right. Any luck there? No.
Caterane 04-18-04, 07:31 PM	Donkey vs Oetzi (9) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3181246#post3181246)
Arstimis 04-18-04, 07:47 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan @Arstimis: Just for the record, Matei is human, not elf. You like that description better ;) Edited for below post: Have i even started?
Kaigan 04-18-04, 08:10 PM	yes, as a matter of fact i do, oh and arstimis, have you finished the calc. yet, i haven't.
Mustadio[MoF] 04-18-04, 08:31 PM	How much would it cost me to pay some one to enchant my Mast. Bow so that it has +1 Flaming? I'm confused by the chart.... cause i read that to add more enancements, it cost totle - previous properties. So technicly I could get it +1 for 2k, then have flaming put on it for another 2k?
MotherBast 04-18-04, 08:49 PM	No, you could get +1 for 2k, but then to get flamming you would have to pay the difference between a +1 weapon, and a +1 flamming weapon. A +1 weapon is 2k, and a +1 flamming weapon is 8k (+2 total enchantment value), so the difference would be 6k. So 2k for +1, and then 6k more to add flamming.
Mustadio[MoF] 04-18-04, 08:50 PM	OOoohhh.... Riight. my bad. Thnx @Jindl(below) yeah. I got it. Thanks.
Jindl 04-18-04, 08:51 PM	Originally posted by Mustadio[MoF] How much would it cost me to pay some one to enchant my Mast. Bow so that it has +1 Flaming? I'm confused by the chart.... cause i read that to add more enancements, it cost totle - previous properties. So technicly I could get it +1 for 2k, then have flaming put on it for another 2k? Actually, its new market value - previous market value. A +1 flaming weapon costs 8000 gp (its equivalent to a +2 weapon) plus whatever the masterwork weapon would cost. A +1 weapon costs 2000 gp plus whatever the masterwork weapon would cost. Thus it costs 6000 gp to upgrade a +1 weapon to be a +1 flaming weapon. In your case, you want to upgrade a masterwork weapon to be a +1 flaming weapon, which would cost 8000 gp, since you have already paid for the masterwork weapon. Got it? -Jindl
Battousai2005 04-19-04, 12:12 AM	New character Kith Deathscythe (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3174073#post3174073) has been posted. Kindly scan for errors.
daemones 04-19-04, 12:27 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 New character Kith Deathscythe (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3174073#post3174073) has been posted. Kindly scan for errors. I think Irwin and he might be headed in the same direction, Battousai, but I could be misreading things.
Beldin 04-19-04, 02:19 AM	@cat: :D :D :D :D , oessi!!!
cellardweller 04-19-04, 05:23 AM	Candy vs Harvey 2 posted. Life forced me to run this during the spare minutes I could muster at work so I expect there will be an error or two in there - hopefully nothing too game-breaking.
Pittbull 04-19-04, 05:24 AM	@Jonah: To avoid rematches, Angosh challanges the the little green guy of the Blackrock Clan. @Cat: I liked that one!!! Oessi,HEHEHEHE!:D
MotherBast 04-19-04, 07:21 AM	Cellar, Major error in Candy vs. Harvy, check concerns thread.
Myrridin 04-19-04, 09:58 AM	Aiki vs Kage fight is up. Nice to have a fairly straight forward fight for once. Aiki Auk vs Kage Nightwind (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.phps=&perpage=1&postid=3186400#post3186400)
Caterane 04-19-04, 11:39 AM	Cellar, Major error in Candy vs. Harvy, check concerns thread No error.
kedi 04-19-04, 01:48 PM	Kedi of the Silent Blade (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=120) ECL 2; 0 win / 0 lose Mete Han (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=121) ECL 4; 2 wins / 1 lose [url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=122]Golratha, Lady of Destruction[/utl] ECL 2; 0 win / 1 lose I edited the sheets, and compiled them. Mods, please make the necesarry changes. Thx! :D
Myrridin 04-19-04, 02:21 PM	*sigh* I wish that my fight would be posted. As I'd like to know if I can advance Zephin, or if I got beaten again.
Myrridin 04-19-04, 02:25 PM	Kedi: This may just be me, but could you please use the standard format for character sheets? It's in the Gladiator thread, and is a lot easier to read than the one you're posting. Thanks.
kedi 04-19-04, 02:41 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Kedi: This may just be me, but could you please use the standard format for character sheets? It's in the Gladiator thread, and is a lot easier to read than the one you're posting. Thanks. :weep: Well, I guess it's because of the font. *swosh*
Ethendril 04-19-04, 02:49 PM	@ Tellish: I'm trying to link all my fights for the audit committee. Since there was no fight for Dusk vs. Zephin, could you please just post here in the tavern what items were used, so that I can link to that post? Thank you. -Ethendril
Myrridin 04-19-04, 03:10 PM	Originally posted by kedi :weep: Well, I guess it's because of the font. *swosh* Actually, it's the format. I like the font a lot, but everything looks fairly packed together as it's just lines, instead of the expanded downward that everyone else uses.
MotherBast 04-19-04, 03:28 PM	Celler: Cat spoke a little permaturly. An error was made in the fight, but I doubt it would have effected the outcome. You still need to check it out, for future refrence, however.
Caterane 04-19-04, 03:40 PM	Ok ok Motherbast, then let us discuss it here. @all: Please join the discussion. In Motherbast's opinion "Freedom of movement" or the travel domain power doesn`t negate Hold person spells, and we had it done wrongly in the past. In my opinion that`s nonsense. Here`s my line of thought: Travel domain: like freedom of movement for spells and effects, PHB p188 Freedom of movement: protects from paralysis, solid fog, slow, web, etc, PHB p233 Hold person/monster: "The subject becomes paralyzed PHB, p 241 I just want to make sure that newer pitlords don`t succumb to Motherbast's confusion ability (Dc25).
Myrridin 04-19-04, 03:50 PM	I've followed it in the concerns for the week thread. I'm not sure how to interpret it, but if that's the way we use it, it does make a whole subset of spells unuseable.
Battousai2005 04-19-04, 03:50 PM	I agree with Cat on this one. Hold person is a spell made to restrict movement. Supposedly, freedom of movement is made to negate anything that would cause movement to be restricted. This is a 1+1=2 situation. If MB could give a really strong respone, it might sway me. Otherwise, it looks pretty clear.
MotherBast 04-19-04, 03:53 PM	And I say again here Cat. I am not in any way saying that Freedom of Movement doesn't negate hold spells. All I am saying is that for the Travel domain power to be activated, you must be under the effect of a spell that "impeeds movement." Once that condition is reached, then the power activates, and hold person is useless aginst you. Nowhere in the hold person spell does it say the target's movement is impeeded. The effect of the spell is that the target "can take no actions." The spell itself doesn't rob you of the ability to move, the inability to take actions means you can not preform a move action. That is a secondary effect of the primary effect of the spell, which is that you can take no actions. What I am saying is that THL says the target can "take no actions." It does not activate the travel domain power. Hold person has the exact same effect but it does? Anyway, this isen't the place for this argument. My entire post, is on the Comments and concerns thread.
Caterane 04-19-04, 03:57 PM	Originally posted by Motherbast: The effect of the spell is that the target "can take no actions." No Motherbast, hold person PARALYZES you and freedom of movement makes you immune to paralysis. I have no idea why we are discussing this at all. It couldn`t be written any clearer.
Battousai2005 04-19-04, 04:07 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast And I say again here Cat. I am not in any way saying that Freedom of Movement doesn't negate hold spells. Then what is this all about? All I am saying is that for the Travel domain power to be activated, you must be under the effect of a spell that "impeeds movement." Once that condition is reached, then the power activates, and hold person is useless aginst you. Nowhere in the hold person spell does it say the target's movement is impeeded. The effect of the spell is that the target "can take no actions." The spell itself doesn't rob you of the ability to move, the inability to take actions means you can not preform a move action. That is a secondary effect of the primary effect of the spell, which is that you can take no actions. Ok. For startes, how is being unable to move not impeding movement? Your logic is a bit muddled to me. The spell does rob you of the ability to move as you are paralyzed. Read the discription in the DMG or SRD if you don't believe me. What I am saying is that THL says the target can "take no actions." It does not activate the travel domain power. Hold person has the exact same effect but it does? Problem. Loosing the ability to take actions means you can take no move actions. Restricting movement.
Caterane 04-19-04, 04:10 PM	Hey right, then Tashas laughter would be negated too! Hey Motherbast, since Candy bumped do you agree on a revange? :D
Magagumo 04-19-04, 04:51 PM	Ok, first of all... Cat, you need to tone it down a bit, I knwo you and Motherbast wish to discuss this rule, but you're bordering on inulsting a fellow Elder Mod, and that is not justifiable in my book. I might not agree with what Motherbast says, but I believe its important that he have the right to do so without you undercutting all of his statements... especially with your comments about "protecting" the newer Mods. I don't believe I need to post quotes. For the second part of my commentary, go to the Fight thread, I'll be posting my own thoughts there.
kedi 04-19-04, 04:53 PM	@Mods: Pls update my char sheets.
Caterane 04-19-04, 05:05 PM	@Mag: Motherbast began to post "MAJOR ERROR MAJOR ERROR!!" throughout 2 heavily frequented threats and posted his theory as a given fact though this was completely wrong. If now a newer pitlord reads this statement - written by an elder mod - he might be swayed that MB's statement is right thus making a serious mistake in his next fight. Well, and the confusion ability part was a joke, come on. Motherbast, I know you have some special lines of thought, and sometimes your reasoning is correct but please don`t post something like that if you`re not 100% sure. If you now say you were 100% sure then you should think again about your reasonings because every response told you that you were wrong. Of course I didn`t want to insult you and I hope you didn`t see it that way.
Jindl 04-19-04, 07:32 PM	@Cat - I have two concerns about the Aku fight. Please check the Fights of the Week thread. -Jindl Oh, and everybody check out Aku's new picture, which has been added to his character sheet! (I'm too lazy to post the link, just go to the roster and follow the link there.)
Hatzinger 04-19-04, 08:40 PM	Fight Posted @Cat: was LMAO when reading Ötzi´s fight. :bounce: Oh, and i would like to sit out as PL for the next few weeks. RL is getting into melee with me and i have to do a few AoO´s ;)
cellardweller 04-19-04, 08:55 PM	@MB - Ok there was a major error on my part - that was assuming that Candy's use of hold person was because you had overlooked the travel domain. It just didn't occur to me that anyone could possibly think that the travel domain didn't protect against hold person. The reasons why I believe it does have been outlined already. Your argument that paralysis doesn't impede movement just seems incredulous to me.
kedi 04-19-04, 09:16 PM	Originally posted by kedi Kedi of the Silent Blade (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=120) ECL 2; 0 win / 0 lose Mete Han (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=121) ECL 4; 2 wins / 1 lose Golratha, Lady of Destruction (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=122) ECL 2; 0 win / 1 lose I edited the sheets, and compiled them. Mods, please make the necesarry changes. Thx! :D the links at the gladiators is broken, for I moved all of my characters in one page. Please, please, please do check it and make the necessary changes. Thank you :)
MotherBast 04-19-04, 10:06 PM	First, let me start by saying that I have been on the golf corse all day, and that I am greatly greatly drunk. So, if my spelling is worse that normal, I am sorry. I was "this" close to going to jail tonighht, which is veryr bery bad condcedreing I am a correctional offecer and would hav lost my job. Ok. Now. Second, not averyou7one deiscagrees with my logic. Jindl, the "rules lawer" of the thread, as lwell as a couuple others, have chimed it that the agree with me. Secondslysly, I would not have posted wahgt I did unless I was 100% sure I was right. Thirdly, Noproblem Celler. Like I said, I dn[;t belveve in reruns, and besides the firest thing, I thing your ran a great fight, that went exactly like I expected a Harvy/candy fight to hgo. figthily, Cat, since Candy is bumping, I would love a remathche with you. Canys has dlost so musch it dose n't matter any meore. She is still coll tho9ught, what other Bard has has the success Candy has had? Hevben uidf he r first choices for e feats were not exacltly optimazxizzed. and again, Cat, I do aske that you tone down the agression in your pposts. You actlykinme I am pwersonaly attalcimnnty the Harverstsr whatn that is not at all my intent. I think you have built av bvery bery stongh character in the second Harvy. If ha had been any less strong, Candy and Sanzin's onslought would hav killed him. He is possably even better than the first Harby. I am neither attacking you,l nor your character, and I don';t feel like I deserve your attacks either. personaly, I have steted more thatn once your may favorite person to debate with on the threads, but lately, you just assume if someong dosen't aghree with you, then they are wrong, and you attack them instead of arguing. I van completly see your side of the argument. I duust donyt' agree with you. Simple as that. I try to discusse it with you, but you state that you dont' want to tak to me anymoer and then call my argumetns nonsense, when the "rules lawer" of the bord supporst them. I think, withe the exception of mposting while I'm drunk, that my conduck ins mucsh moer "elder' thatn yours of late. Not a personal attack, ujust a ponint that you have a respo9nsibiluyty to uphold, and you should see to it. alongst that same line o f thought, zalll of ous elders have a rsponsability to settle the issues curreently under debate in the elder thread, so I strongly suggest tahat either Cat of Jindl create a couple of polles for the the "Red Wizard" and the ;'allie" issues, so that we elders can settele these issues once and ofr all.
Magagumo 04-19-04, 10:18 PM	Um.. agreed on the post thing MB... now get yourself to bed and drink some water, because I ffear the hangover that's coming ;)
Ethendril 04-19-04, 11:04 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Um.. agreed on the post thing MB... now get yourself to bed and drink some water, because I ffear the hangover that's coming ;) :rofl: He looks pretty bad, don't he?
cellardweller 04-19-04, 11:18 PM	Why travel domain is activated by hold person/monster: Travel domain Granted Powers: For a total time per day of 1 round per cleric level you possess, you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement. 1) Magical impeded movement => Travel domain activated Hold person The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place 2) Hold person => Magical Paralysis Paralysis State A paralyzed character cannot move, speak, or take any physical action 3) Paralysis => impeded movement Substituting 3) into 2) you get 4) Hold person => magical impeded movement substituting 4) into 1) 1) Hold person => Travel domain activated QED See how easy it is when you rely on math instead lexical acrobatics? ;)
kattattack22 04-20-04, 01:22 AM	Being the smart a** that I am I will point out that what you just did is more logical reasoning than math. The result is still the same in a sound rational agruement.
MotherBast 04-20-04, 07:11 AM	I'm awake, I'm awake. Wow, for only getting 4 hours sleep, I feel pretty good this morning. No hangover at all. I was going the tackel the daunting task of editing my above post for clerity, but looking at it, I don't think I'll have time to do it before I have to be at work in half an hour. I don't even know what I wrote in some of those places.... And I think now were getting to the root of our disagreement Celler. You conceder making it impossible to take a move action "impeding" movement. I see making it impossible to take a move action as "making it impossible." If somthing is "impeded", it is still posible, its only harder. By removing the ability to move completly, Hold Person does not directly effect a character's movement at all. If it were possable for him to move, he would move at exactly the same rate of movement. He simply can't take a move action. To impede someone's movement, you have to effect the movement directly, not their ability to take action. Thats the root of our difference of opinion as I see it. I looked up impede in the dictonary, to see if it would shed light on the subject, but it says simply "to make a task more difficult." Pretty vague really. Since the D&D term "impede" is not defined as far as I know, I don't guess I have the right to say yours is wrong and mine is right. Of course, neither do you, for that matter. I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree on what qualifies as being "impeded".
Jindl 04-20-04, 08:27 AM	What I posted on the Figghts of the Week thread mirrors MB's argument in the post above. I don't think Hold Person is considered impeded movement. I don't think it would trigger the domain power. The rest of the argument is fine. Freedom of Movement definately works against Hold Person, no doubt about it. But the Travel Domain power is a limited version of Freedom of Movement, in that it only activates when the character is affected by effects that "impede movement". As I posted on the other thread, the term "impede movement" has special meaning in DnD and is used in many spells (I listed examples on the other thread). That term is not used in Hold Person because Hold spells do not impede movement. Making a character unable to take actions is not impeding movement. Now, I already stated my opinion that Candy had little chance to break both the SR and get Harvey2 to fail the Will save (he is a high level cleric after all), so I don't think the fight would change any. But we are discussing this in its relevancy to future fights. So, take a minute and read the domain power. Then read some spells that impede movement, and you'll see the same terminology. Then notice that Hold Person doesn't say anything about impeding movement. -Jindl
kedi 04-20-04, 11:37 AM	mods: The char is brand new. no 3 loses. The old one stays inactive.
Pitlords 04-20-04, 11:55 AM	Originally posted by kedi mods: The char is brand new. no 3 loses. The old one stays inactive. If you wish to start a new character (or restart the same one at 2nd level with no losses) you must change the name in some way. Golratha has a record of 0-1 and used a crossbow bolt in her last fight. If you change the name slightly (like calling her Golratha of the Slaadi) then she becomes a new 2nd level character with no win/loss record and full starting equipment. The same applies for Kedi of the Silent Blade, who will need to change his name since that is the exact name of the previous character. Please contact me if you have any questions. -Jindl
Caterane 04-20-04, 01:08 PM	@Motherbast: First of all, I hope you didn`t hit someone on the golf course LOL I`m sure all holes had a mirror image running eh? Ok, sorry. Look, there was a time when I also liked to debate with you but recently I have the impression that you just begin a discussion for the sake of it. You even told me that it`s one of your hobbys or something. Secondly, I have also the impression that no matter what I say you continue with the discussion and don`t back away a single step, so why should I invest time when I talk to a wall. Third in place, in the end we always finished our discussions like we began it, no one gave quarter and most of the time it is decided by a third party, or nothing at all. And last but not least but the most important point: I don`t like the way you bend the words. Hear me out: You pick one single word or two and check for alternative meanings, then build your theory around it. When WotC wrote the books they hadn`t in mind that someone could acuatally interpret the written wording in an uncommon way. They assumed that it is clear to everyone what is meant by their terms. Another thing to note is that no language is perfect. You can always find words and interpret them in a slightly different style but that is not our goal here, right? That said, I want to add that I don`t always react accordingly in tone but perhaps you can now see it a bit from my view; I mean our general discussions now. About the freedom of movement debate: first of all, Jindl's NOT the rules lawyer. Such a title doesn`t exist. He once proposed it himself but since this wasn`t approved by anyone it`s nothing more than a meaningless expression. Then, Jindl was the only one who supports your idea. Cellar made a good derivation, Tellish agreed too aswell as severl others. While you have to write half a page long I can simply say my argument in two lines: Hold person => paralyzed Freedom of movement => not affected by paralysis. Travel domain = Freedom of movement (for spells and effects) Jindl's examples enumerate every example in the freedom of movement description (web, slow, sleet storm) but solely left out Hold person. Why? Why pick one of the mentioned examples and leave the others in place? And after the picking Hold person you create a dubious theory based on a personal definition of 'impede movement' which is nowhere mentioned and sell it as given fact. Why should WotC be so unclear about it? Impede movement is just a word like everything else but NOT A DEFINITION! Still, you say it has a "special meaning". Who did tell you that? That argument is really build on thin ice. It`s this "interpreting" I described above. So I would say we use it in the most appropriate mentioning: hold person = paralysis = unable to move, as Cellardwellar quoted right out of the books ...and his quote doesn`t need any additional explanation, unlike yours. Cat
Caterane 04-20-04, 01:16 PM	@Arti: Sorry that you didn`t like the story but I have to work 10 hours a day these times and the weekend was so warm and sunny that I spent most of the time outside. There will be other opportunities in the future. @Jindl: I`m going to analyze the Aku vs Grym fight now. Oh, and why change the name? That will create the same thing like with Drak'somthing who started 5 times, 6 times?
kedi 04-20-04, 01:21 PM	Originally posted by Pitlords If you wish to start a new character (or restart the same one at 2nd level with no losses) you must change the name in some way. Golratha has a record of 0-1 and used a crossbow bolt in her last fight. If you change the name slightly (like calling her Golratha of the Slaadi) then she becomes a new 2nd level character with no win/loss record and full starting equipment. The same applies for Kedi of the Silent Blade, who will need to change his name since that is the exact name of the previous character. Please contact me if you have any questions. -Jindl Edited, now he's kedi the assassin
daemones 04-20-04, 01:26 PM	I've updated Irwin; if anyone sees a problem with him, please let me know. Thanks!
Ethendril 04-20-04, 01:42 PM	I know some people may not believe this, but I've just had a Moh sighting...he was in this very forum!
Caterane 04-20-04, 01:58 PM	A UFMO :D Aku vs Grym edit finished.
Magagumo 04-20-04, 02:07 PM	@Cat *Laughs* Excellent term, Cat, perhaps this mysterious stranger will come to share new knowledge with us? ;) @All On the main D & D page for Wizards, they have posted rules clarifications for Spell-like abilities. Highly recommended for anyone who was unclear on how they worked. One thing I shall note, is that it is impossible to identify a spell-like ability through Spellcraft (though it can still be countered by Dispel Magic alone). I find this interesting, as I have run this incorrectly in my own campaigns with all the demons and devils I use, but as two out of the three of my characters use this things (Zorander's Silent Image and all of Toreilison's sp-like abilities), it's somethign I thought I should mention. Besides, when Bruno gets unfrozen, Archmage allows for the creation of spell-like abilities, and why wouldn't I want Enervation three times per day? ;)
Arstimis 04-20-04, 02:30 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Arti: Sorry that you didn`t like the story but I have to work 10 hours a day these times and the weekend was so warm and sunny that I spent most of the time outside. There will be other opportunities in the future. that's quite alright, I understand completely. It was pretty fun, just not the gruesomeness I was hoping for with my first chaotic evil. At least you make a story for all your fights. I lack a bit in that creativity department For the travel domain I agree with Cat for the same reasons. Paralysis stops movement. A spell that causes no movement impedes movement. Tasha's hideous laughter isn't included because you move around a lot while you laugh. Think of it like this: You could move if you wanted to during tashas hideous laughter, but you dont want to, all you want to do is lay down and laugh. During hold person you have the will to move, and want to (the reason for the saves each round) but you can't because you are paralyzed from the spell That's just one of my takes on it
Jindl 04-20-04, 03:01 PM	BTW: I never suggested the term "rules lawyer", or that I be given some special designation. That was someone else. @Kedi / Beldin - make sure you check the new ending to the fight that Hatzinger just posted. -Jindl
kedi 04-20-04, 03:08 PM	Edited it. Pls place it under Level 3 League.
MotherBast 04-20-04, 04:12 PM	Cat: Well, your right about me liking to argue. Leftovers from my high-school days in the grifted prgram's "debate team". Why it was called that I dont' know, since we all ways debated each other, it wasen't really a team at all..... Anyway, I'm not a wall. I have said two or three times that I see exactly where your comming from. I see your point entirely. I even see how you could draw it. But, I don't agree with it. I have said why. You say it is based on my "interpration", but then, yours is also based on your "interpration" of the exact same words. You say for your argument no "interpration" is needed, but if that were true, then you argment would mean nothing, since the words in it mean nothing. Everything not clearly defined has to be "interprated." In the PHB, I can not find a defanition for "impeded movement", so, it has to be intreprated. You interprate it as anything that Freedom of Movement protects aginst. I interprate it as anything that actually effects your rate of movement in a negative way. We are both using interprations. But I'm not a wall, really. If you can show me how my resoning is flawed, then I will say... "ah, your right." exactly like the argument we had about movement last time. But, saying I'm wrong because your right is not giving me any reason to doubt my own logic, its just reminding me that you don't share it. To convince me I'm wrong, you have to show me why my interpratation is wrong. Thats what I have been trying to show you. But it seems this is now no loger even about the orrigonal argment. Now its about, well, arguing. I really didnt' mean for it to go this direction. Sorry if I've offended you, or put you off in any way with my zest for debate. As for last night..... I wasen't driving the golf cart, and we didn't hit anyone, but there was an incident with a very sharp left turn around hole number 6 that left me with a busted nose, lying on the ground. But, and this is the most important thing, I didn't spill a by-god drop of my beer. I managed to keep it upright by insuring my face landed on top of it..... and thats not even what almost got me thrown in jail. That didn't happen till we got to Long John Silver's resturant..... I'd rather not even get in to that buisness....
Arstimis 04-20-04, 04:36 PM	I'm not on any debate team, but it sounds fun Ok, now MB tell me how your definition of impede movement "something that effects your rate of movement in a negative way" doesnt include paralysis, being unable to move at all. Hold person is the most extreme form of impeding movement by not allowing it at all. Could you please explain how your interpretation of the words in question really excludes Hold Person
MotherBast 04-20-04, 06:32 PM	dirty double post. Bad post, bad.
MotherBast 04-20-04, 06:39 PM	Because your rate of movement is not effected at all. It takes away your ability to preform a move action, but it does not an any way decress the effeciency of your movement. If you could move, through some means, while being held, you would move at full speed. To me, for you movement to be impeded, it has to reduce the amont by which you can move. To remove the ability to move completly isen't "impeding", in my eyes, thats "making impossible." To use myself as an example. After 10 beers, my ability to drive is greatly "impeded". After I total my car, while sober, my ability to drive is not impeded at all, but it is impossible because my car is totaled. If I had a car, I could drive fine, but since I don't, I can't. If someone held could move, they would move fine, but since they can't, they don't.
Beldin 04-20-04, 06:42 PM	alberich has been replaced with delayar, who will fight 4/21
MotherBast 04-20-04, 07:25 PM	Ok, so everyone knows, I'm going to Miami this weekend, so I absolutly must have tactics for any fight I run on monday, as I will be running any fights I need to run monday night. Then I'm leaving, and not comming back till middle of next week, so I might be late getting characters updated after this weeks fights. I'll probably remind anyone whos fight I will be running of this, but I just wanted to give everyone fair warning.
Limit 04-20-04, 07:35 PM	If they're available, I'd like to volunteer for 2+ fights in this week's pairings. Gonna have a good bit of time this weekend (visiting the parents :( )
Arstimis 04-20-04, 07:35 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast Because your rate of movement is not effected at all. It takes away your ability to preform a move action, but it does not an any way decress the effeciency of your movement. If you could move, through some means, while being held, you would move at full speed. Let me lay out one definition for impede impede \Im*pede"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Impeded; p. pr. & vb. n. Impeding.] [L. impedire, lit., to entangle the feet; pref. im- in + pes, pedis, foot. See Foot, and cf. Impeach.] To hinder; to stop in progress; to obstruct; as, to impede the advance of troops. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. Ok there is one definition. To stop, that means being paralized, completely stopped of movement, would be impeded Also, let me clarify something. The effect of Hold Person is to paralyze the opponent and as a result of paralyzation they cant take move actions. Not to make the opponent unable to take move actions so in turn they are paralyzed. It seems like you may be looking at this backwards To me, for you movement to be impeded, it has to reduce the amont by which you can move. To remove the ability to move completly isen't "impeding", in my eyes, thats "making impossible." Ah, but Hold Person is not making the ability to move impossible. It is only impeding the ability for a certain number of rounds To use myself as an example. After 10 beers, my ability to drive is greatly "impeded". After I total my car, while sober, my ability to drive is not impeded at all, but it is impossible because my car is totaled. If I had a car, I could drive fine, but since I don't, I can't. If someone held could move, they would move fine, but since they can't, they don't. Sorry, this is a bad example because it can be twisted so many ways. Lets say you get in a car accident and you become paralyzed from the neck down, but you get a new car. The new car can drive just fine. The only problem is your paralyzed and cant make it drive any speed. Your ability to drive is very much impeded. I'd like to see you tell a quadriplegic that there ability and speed to get up and walk isnt impeded at all
Battousai2005 04-20-04, 07:47 PM	Ok, seriously. This is time for a general poll. WHO THINKS THAT BEING PARALYZED IS ENOUGH TO ACTIVATE THE TRAVEL DOMAIN? That said, keep in mind we are speeking of the Spell Hold person. The result it that the person is paralyzed on a failed save. Votes?
MotherBast 04-20-04, 08:01 PM	"To stop in progress", humm.... thats a much better deffination than the one in my "American Heritage Dictionary". To stop in progress..... impede..... I.... well.... I'll be damned.... I yeild.
Arstimis 04-20-04, 08:09 PM	It was one of the definitions from dictionary.com Same place i got definitions for i definded in the INA debate :D
^Rayne^ 04-20-04, 09:22 PM	I would like to have an Elder 8 individual please look over the Aiki Auk Vs. Kage match. I have looked over it and I have noticed that Sundering was used over and over again with a disregard for the items Hardness. Aiki had all of his weapons destroyed because hardness was ignored and only hitpoints were used when calculating whether or not a weapon was destroyed. This seems like a pretty big mistake and it is one I don't want to have ignored. If I have made an error I am sorry but that is why I am requesting an Elder 8 individual please look over the fight. Thanks, Rayne
Arstimis 04-20-04, 09:25 PM	I know im not an Elder 8, but i gave the reason in the fights of the week thread
^Rayne^ 04-20-04, 09:48 PM	Arstimis, thanks for the reply. It looks like I was just taught a very painful lesson. I can't seem to win a break with Aiki. It does look like he will forge new weapons all made of Adamantine in the future before he has them magically enhanced. I don't want to be the victim of this bologna again. Arstimis again thankyou for explaining this to me and Myrridin sorry for doubting you. It looks like you did better research than I did.
Mustadio[MoF] 04-20-04, 09:58 PM	1. I would like to try modding. So that I might run two PC's at once. 2. Would it be possible to change my screenname? This one was made in hast, and I would like to use one more fitting. 3. Pard is going to stop fighting for a while. I am bringing in a hopfully better build to replace him.
freemoody 04-20-04, 10:09 PM	Awwww...Don't get rid of Pard, I really like him. He's got flavor.
Mustadio[MoF] 04-20-04, 10:38 PM	Awwww...Don't get rid of Pard, I really like him. He's got flavor dont worry, he'll be back. After all he still has to take Rito's spot on the Hall of Sha- I mean Fame ^_^ and he shall stick around arena town in the RP thread, dont worry Jindl or Cat! :P
Battousai2005 04-20-04, 10:45 PM	Oh. Joy... Good thing. He needs to get the worst win loss ratio in the history of the COCO!!!
^Rayne^ 04-20-04, 10:51 PM	Hey don't discount Aiki for the worst record ever... He is only one loss behind Pard to take the title! ;)
Battousai2005 04-20-04, 10:51 PM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ Arstimis, thanks for the reply. It looks like I was just taught a very painful lesson. I can't seem to win a break with Aiki. It does look like he will forge new weapons all made of Adamantine in the future before he has them magically enhanced. I don't want to be the victim of this bologna again. Arstimis again thankyou for explaining this to me and Myrridin sorry for doubting you. It looks like you did better research than I did. Hehe. Don't worry much about it. No one seems to see the potential for adamantine weapons. Now they probably will. Kage was made to break weaponry; I just added to that. I would recommend against forging your weapons out of adamantine unless you want to sunder as well. The best way around a sunderer is, uh, maybe I should PM this to you:D ;)
Mustadio[MoF] 04-20-04, 10:53 PM	ah, yes. Pard's Kobold rival for the Hall of Sha- er Fame. The thing is Pard hasn't won once while aiki has.
TaggIIV 04-20-04, 10:55 PM	oh, just saying for the people that control matchups that ive updated Krhoir's and Sharptooth's fight records and they are ready for pairings for tomorrow (just in the event i needed to anounce it)
Mustadio[MoF] 04-20-04, 11:49 PM	Both Sarah and Drahk will fight if I can mod. If not only Drahk. BTW, could someone look over Drahk and see if he has any flaws? I believe I did everything correct, but I just want to be sure. If you do see anything, kindly PM.
LLMadCow 04-21-04, 01:19 AM	Please don't bench me. I am here and there and working on a return. I am working on different builds and you will soon see a fighter...
kedi 04-21-04, 02:20 AM	I'd like to mod 2+ matches this week, for I have 3 active pcs...
Caterane 04-21-04, 04:11 AM	@LL: I wrote you several PMs and emails but never got a reply so I assumed that you`re busy with other things. Your seat is not lost of course, just frozen. Which is why... @Elders: I have frozen LLMadCow and Moherajikuyx in the Council. The reason behind this is to speed up polls. Mo told me that he has very little time available; LL seems likewise occupied. More importantly, I changed the definition of the poll winning condition: a simple majority is sufficient now. Well, actually I had that in mind anyway when I wrote it in the first place but expressed myself too unclear and forgot an important line. 5 voices is the absolute majority so as soon as 5 voices are reached the poll is enacted, no matter how many others are missing. A simple majority is sufficient if all active Elders have voted. And finally, I think we should get away with the term "Mod" or "Moderator" as Wiz_O Shadow said this is used to describe the WizOs. The substitution is Elder Pitlords, or Pitelders. - Cat @Mag+Jindl: Please vote on the [Ma]tools - ride issue. It has been open for several weeks now. Suplemental: I think we should also add a deadline to the Elder polls, else it will last forever. Three weeks sounds good to me. That gives Elders time to think about the issue. NEW POLL AVAILABLE: RED WIZARDS! ...to the Council (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2734730#post2734730)
kedi 04-21-04, 07:44 AM	Mods: Can you put [OK] next to golratha? I described that she's ready for the next pairings. Thx! Btw, a friend of my (aravilar) is very interested in this arena. He'll try to post his chars before the parings.
kedi 04-21-04, 07:55 AM	Aramil, check the character violations.
kedi 04-21-04, 10:12 AM	I have a tournament idea: 16 LLs (lowlevels), 16 MLs and 8 HLs. Fee is %1 of the total gold +25 for LLs, %2 of the total gold + 100 for MLs, %5 of the total gold +250 gp for HLs. The tournament will take part in 3 sections, low league, middle league, high league. Champion of each league will get leadership as bonus feat (or +1 bonus if they already have) LL champion will fight MD champion, and the winner will fight hl champion. 3rd will get +1 Leadership, 2nd will get +2 leadership and 1st will get +3 leadership bonus (treated to be great power). 4 elders and 8 regular pitlord will be assigned for tournament, and each pitlords will get + credit in addition to their regular fight credits. Each elder will mod 1 HL fight and aprove the regular fights. Each regular pitlord will mod 1 ML and 1 LL fight. Everyone can enter with 1 build only. If a pc won't send his tactics due friday, he'll be disclafied. if a pitlord won't post the fight due monday, he'll get 2 - credits and a new pitlord will be assigned. For each fight you win, you'll get a new level and gp as usual. Finalist of the league sub-tournaments will get a bonus xx, dont know yet. ------------- Thats how we can raise the coco once again and make people pay more attention. Plus it would be good to see ECL x person to fight an ECL + 1-4 gladiator. what do you think?
Myrridin 04-21-04, 10:34 AM	I can only Pitlord a fight this week if my two combatants agree to have tactics to me by noon EST on Friday. I'm out of town Sat-Monday, and will be back on Tuesday. I'm fine with taking a fight, just need the tactics FAST.
Myrridin 04-21-04, 10:40 AM	Please set Zephin to [OK] status for this week.
Pitlords 04-21-04, 10:55 AM	The roster has been updated. Please note: You must state "Ready for 4/21" in the subject line of your character sheet if you wish to paired for this week. I think many of you may have updated your characters yet failed to do this. Pairings will be in a couple of hours, and if you do not put this in the subject line, you will not be paired. -Jindl
^Rayne^ 04-21-04, 11:41 AM	Note to moderators/Pitlords... Aiki Auk has tied Pard's worst record listing for most bumps (with 2 bumps). ;) If Aiki can't get good records he might as well get the bad ones.
Jindl 04-21-04, 12:27 PM	In the event of ties: The record will go to the higher level character, except in the cases of losses in which case the lower level character will get the record (as they got more losses/faster). So, while Bilo and Heinrich both have a 6 Str, Bilo is higher level and gets the record for "Weak". Since Aiki and Pard both have been bumped twice, Pard gets the record because he is lower level (more losses/faster). Understand? -Jindl
Magagumo 04-21-04, 12:58 PM	*looks at kedi's icon* Oy, now I'll never know what I did or didn't say... was wondering how I got so chatty all of a sudden :P (i.e. too many short posts, and not enough monster paragrpahs ;))
Battousai2005 04-21-04, 01:24 PM	Originally posted by Mustadio[MoF] Both Sarah and Drahk will fight if I can mod. If not only Drahk. BTW, could someone look over Drahk and see if he has any flaws? I believe I did everything correct, but I just want to be sure. If you do see anything, kindly PM. Just curious: How does an orc end up in an all human family?!?!?!
kattattack22 04-21-04, 02:18 PM	Originally posted by Jindl In the event of ties: The record will go to the higher level character, except in the cases of losses in which case the lower level character will get the record (as they got more losses/faster). So, while Bilo and Heinrich both have a 6 Str, Bilo is higher level and gets the record for "Weak". Since Aiki and Pard both have been bumped twice, Pard gets the record because he is lower level (more losses/faster). Understand? -Jindl Just a note Arkin also has Strength of 6 Ah. I thought it just stayed with the first character to have the title in case of a tie.
kedi 04-21-04, 02:31 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Just curious: How does an orc end up in an all human family?!?!?! The human race genes are dominant. In this case, orc blood would be resesive. If a half orc and a human gave birth to a child, he'd possess %50 orc blood while he was treated to be a normal human (1/4 ancestorial resesive orc gene vs 3/4 ancestorial dominant human gene). Now, if two humans like that gave birth to a child, it would be either full-blood human (%25 chance), half orc (%50 chance) and full blood orc (%25 chance) Satisfied?
Pitlords 04-21-04, 02:42 PM	Pairings are under way. No more editing of characters.
Market_Share 04-21-04, 03:25 PM	Originally posted by Pitlords Pairings are under way. No more editing of characters. I had marked Pale-Rider as active, can you include him in the pairings as well. Seems like he's not there. He's looking to bust a cap this week, so i'd like him to fight. :) SPIKE
Pitlords 04-21-04, 03:47 PM	Pairings are Posted. 1. If your fight has a * next to it, then your Pitlord has requested early tactics due to special circumstances. Tactics for these matches are due Thursday night (so that the fight may be run on Friday). 2. All other tactics are due Friday. 3. Pitlords may run fights with recieved tactics starting Friday. 4. Pitlords may run fights with default tactics on Saturday. 5. Fights are due Monday. 6. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. Good Luck! @Market - I added Pale-Rider, and gave you a fight to mod. @Mustadio[MoF] - I gave you a fight to mod. Please send me your email address ASAP (preferably via a PM), so that I may link it in and your players may send you their tactics. -Jindl
Arstimis 04-21-04, 05:57 PM	Hey Jindl I sent you a PM and an Email..but i guess you didnt see it before you did pairings. It basically said since laucian was ready last week and rolled out, he was still ready for this week...i just forgot to set him ready. Since Kage rolled out do you thikn you could put me and him against eachother so neither of us would have to sit out. If not, thats fine also, for those i am modding, i have a new email address KChezwick (at) hotmail.com
kattattack22 04-21-04, 05:58 PM	Arkin's tactics vs. Irwin have been sent to TaggIIV via email.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 04-21-04, 06:18 PM	Originally posted by Pitlords Pairings are Posted. 1. If your fight has a * next to it, then your Pitlord has requested early tactics due to special circumstances. Tactics for these matches are due Thursday night (so that the fight may be run on Friday). 2. All other tactics are due Friday. 3. Pitlords may run fights with recieved tactics starting Friday. 4. Pitlords may run fights with default tactics on Saturday. 5. Fights are due Monday. 6. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. Good Luck! @Market - I added Pale-Rider, and gave you a fight to mod. @Mustadio[MoF] - I gave you a fight to mod. Please send me your email address ASAP (preferably via a PM), so that I may link it in and your players may send you their tactics. -Jindl Why my char is not paired in this week figth? I of course now noticed that I forgot edit my "ready" status to this day (I just edited it). So, can you arrange me a pairing into someone and somebody do the figth?
Kaigan 04-21-04, 07:03 PM	@Rayne & Kedi: If possible i would like to have your tactics by 3:00Pm pacific U.S time. I have a full weekend so i will not be able to do anything on the weekend. I'll have the fight up on friday night if you get your tactics to me early, or it will be on monday night. Thanks for your time.
Limit 04-21-04, 07:05 PM	@Kaigan, Arstimis, Battousai2005 If you could have tactics to me before noon (EDT) on Saturday, that would be great. I'll have to print your default tactics and take them with me after that.
Arstimis 04-21-04, 07:08 PM	Originally posted by Limit @Kaigan, Arstimis, Battousai2005 If you could have tactics to me before noon (EDT) on Saturday, that would be great. I'll have to print your default tactics and take them with me after that. I will probably get both mine to you by Thursday night, if not by then, then definately friday
Jindl 04-21-04, 07:23 PM	@All - Please be aware of the following change to the 5th level fights: Level 5 Jo'Li, Mercy vs Heinrich, Hatzinger: Arstimis Matei of the Barren Flats, Kaigan vs Zaphod, Arstimis: Limit Laucian Loyalar, Arstimis vs Kage Nightwind, Battousai2005: Limit @Kazzaroth - If Anoulh Lyn updates and sets ready, then I'll pair you. Otherwise, you are unfortunately the odd man out. Please make sure you reset to be Ready for 4/28 to make sure that you are in for next week. I still assigned you a fight to run, btw, so that you may continue to work of the negative credits you have from bringing in a drow. Also, Arstimis' email has been updated on the Pitlord list. -Jindl
Mustadio[MoF] 04-21-04, 08:18 PM	@Ethendril my E-mail is MysticMonk2005(at)Hotmail.com incase this isn't put on the list. The sooner tactics are in, the better. I will run the fight on sat. with default if I dont get them by friday. @battosi Drahk was taken in by the Longfellows. He was found almost dead.
freemoody 04-21-04, 09:12 PM	@ Battousai2005: Tactics sent for Lillith via PM and E-mail.
^Rayne^ 04-21-04, 09:17 PM	Kaigan, Vryk's Tactics have been sent for this weeks fight.
TaggIIV 04-21-04, 09:42 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 Arkin's tactics vs. Irwin have been sent to TaggIIV via email. received
MotherBast 04-21-04, 10:07 PM	Candy and Dra'kel tactics sent to respective mods.
daemones 04-21-04, 10:12 PM	Tactics for Irwin vs. Arkin sent to TaggIIV via email.
Mercy 04-21-04, 10:30 PM	@Arstimis - Tactics sent for Jo'Li
TaggIIV 04-21-04, 11:08 PM	Originally posted by daemones Tactics for Irwin vs. Arkin sent to TaggIIV via email. also recieved
Beldin 04-22-04, 03:22 AM	@kazzaroth: tactics for delayar have been send
Caterane 04-22-04, 04:18 AM	So, while Bilo and Heinrich both have a 6 Str, Bilo is higher level and gets the record for "Weak". Actually it was because Bilo is tiny. THey may have the same str score but Bilo can still carry less.
Pittbull 04-22-04, 06:09 AM	@Arstimis: Tactics have been sent, please confirm reception. @Cat: After his permanent enlargement, Angosh might be Mr. Clumsy (DEX 8).
kedi 04-22-04, 07:01 AM	Tactics are posted. All of them.
Limit 04-22-04, 08:14 AM	@Aramil Dunskar: Tactics sent via e-mail.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 04-22-04, 09:05 AM	Originally posted by Beldin @kazzaroth: tactics for delayar have been send I have not received your tactics. I try re-check my email, but send the via PM anyway (easier to check out when posting the figth).
Beldin 04-22-04, 09:18 AM	@kazzaroth: tactics have been resend via pm
Myrridin 04-22-04, 09:46 AM	Tactics received from kedi and cellardweller. Kedi: There were some concerns about your character, and a problem with a request. I've responded via e-mail and in the Character Violations thread.
kedi 04-22-04, 10:04 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Tactics received from kedi and cellardweller. Kedi: There were some concerns about your character, and a problem with a request. I've responded via e-mail and in the Character Violations thread. I know, just forget about -the invisibility, and use the tactics normally, just make attack with crossbow 1st round, and do the rest as listed.
Battousai2005 04-22-04, 10:07 AM	Originally posted by freemoody @ Battousai2005: Tactics sent for Lillith via PM and E-mail. Recieved on both counts! When I get the tacts for Sarah, I can run the fight Here is some irony for all of you. Most of you know that Kaigan, Arstimis, Mustadio, and I know each other in RL. Take a glance at pairings this week at lev five!
Myrridin 04-22-04, 10:19 AM	Originally posted by kedi I know, just forget about -the invisibility, and use the tactics normally, just make attack with crossbow 1st round, and do the rest as listed. It's a bit late to change your tactics as the fight is already ran. You should know these things about your character, so that you can plan for that in the fight.
Jindl 04-22-04, 10:23 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Recieved on both counts! When I get the tacts for Sarah, I can run the fight Here is some irony for all of you. Most of you know that Kaigan, Arstimis, Mustadio, and I know each other in RL. Take a glance at pairings this week at lev five! That should make it interesting, eh? And Limit is a pretty good pitlord, so I expect fair and clean fights. -Jindl
Myrridin 04-22-04, 10:48 AM	And the fight is done. Golratha vs Bloodmaiden Shiaan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3215971#post3215971)
Beldin 04-22-04, 11:17 AM	@myrridin: 3. Pitlords may run fights with recieved tactics starting Friday. i think kedi should be albe to alter his tactics before friday
Myrridin 04-22-04, 11:22 AM	Originally posted by Beldin @myrridin: 3. Pitlords may run fights with recieved tactics starting Friday. i think kedi should be albe to alter his tactics before friday I request tactics sent to me early, as I won't be in town for this weekend. I let it be known that the fight would be run as soon as I received all tactics. I received them, and had the fight run. To go back and rerun the fight with changed tactics? Why don't we ask Cellar if he's ok with that. It also brings up the point that what if I hadn't pointed out that he's using a heavy crossbow which takes a full round to load and just ran the fight? Tactics were sent, I used them, plus the tactics that Cellardweller sent in. It's the same type of error if a character chooses to cast Hold Person on a cleric with the Travel domain. It's also the players responsibility to know his character, equipment, and the rules of the Arena. He had a number of illegal pre-buffs listed, and didn't pre-list half his spells. Cellardweller was nice enough to let him have the original prebuffs as his memorized ones, instead of making him have no spells. He bought a heavy crossbow, and decided that's what he wanted to use for the first 5 rounds. Cellar: Tactics sent for Zephin's fight.
Jindl 04-22-04, 11:46 AM	Re: Shiaan vs Golratha - Although Myrridin did ask for early tactics, Kedi was only trying to make a change in response to the pitlord's correction. I think you should use his updated tactics, especially since they were posted here before the fight was posted. Also, please see the Fights of the Week thread for my analysis of the fight and its errors. -Jindl
Caterane 04-22-04, 11:50 AM	Tactics sent for Archangel Ixidor. Please confirm; the mail program said something about a virus *shrugs* LOL Tactics received from Candy and Jagath.
Jindl 04-22-04, 11:55 AM	Tactics received for both Dra'kel and Ixidor. I'll review them later. -Jindl
Ethendril 04-22-04, 12:53 PM	@ Mustadio: Tactics sent for Vaarkalikax via email. Please let me know if you didn't receive them or if you have any questions. Thanks. -Ethendril
Boldrift-Mattock 04-22-04, 04:50 PM	I am sorry I didnt know I had to change my date ( should have looked a little closer into the drules tread) but I was wondering if anyother 2nd LVL character out there wanted to fight boldrift that didnt already have a fight. IF and only IF a moterator didnt mind running it if not then I will be around again next week and I have learned my lesson. Sorry for any trouble. Thanks Boldrift............
Caterane 04-22-04, 04:52 PM	Hey ho, Candy vs Jagath (11) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3218707#post3218707) is up. Since I`m currently in Paradise City on the Seventh Heaven of Mount Celestia I hadn`t any books with me so I ran it from mind. And since I hadn`t any dice either I had some football-watching pals say a number between 1 and 20, coincidently. Worked quite fine. Cat out.
Ethendril 04-22-04, 05:14 PM	Cat: That fight was hilarious...even more when I read how you ran it.
MotherBast 04-22-04, 06:22 PM	By the way, Candy's CHA is now 27, making her again the Arena Bunny.
Ethendril 04-22-04, 06:25 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast By the way, Candy's CHA is now 27, making her again the Arena Bunny. And after seeing that fight, who could dispute?
kedi 04-22-04, 06:52 PM	Mods, I wanted to ask this, because I am not sure if this is legal, here it is: Bard 1 True Neutral Drow Bard that has "jammin' " as a special attack, called 'Bobmar Leihn" ? :rofl:
Jindl 04-22-04, 07:22 PM	Put a few ranks in Craft (alchemy) so that he can make his own "smoke sticks". :heehee
Jindl 04-22-04, 08:39 PM	Originally posted by Boldrift-Mattock I am sorry I didnt know I had to change my date ( should have looked a little closer into the drules tread) but I was wondering if anyother 2nd LVL character out there wanted to fight boldrift that didnt already have a fight. IF and only IF a moterator didnt mind running it if not then I will be around again next week and I have learned my lesson. Sorry for any trouble. Thanks Boldrift............ My character (Rhoar the Neanderthal) will accept your challenge. Are there any volunteers to run the fight? -Jindl BTW: Some of you may remember the name Rhoar was previously known by: Tomah. That's right, everybody's favorite gigantic club wielding caveman has returned :D
Limit 04-22-04, 08:43 PM	Originally posted by Jindl My character (Rhoar the Neanderthal) will accept your challenge. Are there any volunteers to run the fight? -Jindl I'll take it :)
Jindl 04-22-04, 08:45 PM	Then the pairing is set. @Limit - Please allow an extra day for tactics, since it is a late pairing. -Jindl
TaggIIV 04-22-04, 09:01 PM	@Kazzaroth: tactices for Krhoir emailed
SnarkHunter 04-22-04, 09:13 PM	Tactics sent for Donkey. So far I've recieved no tactics for my own fight. Edit: Small addendum sent via PM.
Jindl 04-22-04, 10:15 PM	And tactics sent for Aku (with One More Thing in a second PM). @MB - These are my final version of tactics. -Jindl
Boldrift-Mattock 04-22-04, 11:44 PM	I have sent my tactics. If you have any questions then please send them to me. THank you once more for running this fight...
Mustadio[MoF] 04-23-04, 12:22 AM	Originally posted by Ethendril @ Mustadio: Tactics sent for Vaarkalikax via email. Please let me know if you didn't receive them or if you have any questions. Thanks. -Ethendril Tactics received, fight will be run on friday or saturday.(possibly depending on how early batosai sends tactics.)
Hatzinger 04-23-04, 04:53 AM	@Arstimis: tactics sent for Heinrich @SnarkHunter: tactics sent for Oetzi --please confirm the arrival.
Limit 04-23-04, 07:44 AM	@Boldrift-Mattock: Tactics received and I replied with a major concern. "If a tree falls in the arena and was never really there, does it still provide total cover?"
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 04-23-04, 08:04 AM	Tactics received both from TaggIIV and Beldin. I post the figth in saturday.
Magagumo 04-23-04, 09:35 AM	@Mercy Almsot done Rough Draft of Senior Comp Project Proposal ^-^;;;. I'll have tactics to you after work, so by 3:30-3:45 EST
Arstimis 04-23-04, 09:39 AM	Tactics recieved from: Heinrich, Hatzinger Jo'Li, Mercy Angosh, Pittbull
Jindl 04-23-04, 11:26 AM	@Limit - Tactics sent for Rhoar.
Limit 04-23-04, 01:14 PM	Tactics Status Rhoar, Jindl Received Zaphod, Arstimis Received Laucian Loyalar, Arstimis Received Kage Nightwind, Battousai2005 Received Matei of the Barren Flats, Kaigan Received Boldrift Mattock, Boldrift-Mattock Awaiting Clarification
Pitlords 04-23-04, 02:18 PM	@all: While updating the roster I noticed some characters being inactive for a while and moved them to the appropriate list. Speaking of such, what`s the status of these characters: Kiowen Civasion Zorander Brogaden Spike Kiri'endelas These gladiators either have "Retiring" in their headline or mentioned it at one point or another. Please confirm your status (retire/inactive/active). Then I noticed that the inactive list grows longer and longer. There are currently 26 characters on it. Please, everyone that knows for sure that he won`t play his character again should tell me this! The inactive list is for characters who are going to sit out for a while, not an old people's home where they rest until they are removed anyway after 3 months. If you want to play them again - next year perhaps - then you can always anounce it then in the Tavern and it shouldn`t be a problem to reactivate him. Thanks Cat
Ethendril 04-23-04, 02:33 PM	Kiri is going to get a new cohort, and will be coming back, probably within the next month.
Magagumo 04-23-04, 03:11 PM	@Cat Zorander is still alive, I actually will have him fight next week, since there are some interesting new lvl 10s to duel.
Caterane 04-23-04, 03:58 PM	@Elder Pitlords: With the new deadline for polls there`s no need to bench Mo and LL. Any Elder's voice that hasn`t been put to vote til the time is up is considered abstain. I am also positively surprised about the short reaction time of the Red Wizard poll! For this reason I reduced the deadline by a week to the 5th of may. However, I myself still need some time to think about the issue. I want to make sure I don`t make a mistake if I vote for one side, and you should use this time too. The poll won`t be closed earlier than that.
Arstimis 04-23-04, 03:59 PM	Kiowen is out searching for a cohort right now. He will be inactive till I stop laucian...maybe a month or so
kattattack22 04-23-04, 06:42 PM	While not on the list of four asking about what they are doing. Ony is going to be inactive for another 3 weeks.
JonahBlack 04-23-04, 06:56 PM	I emailed my tactics about 4 hrs ago.
Kaigan 04-23-04, 07:43 PM	@Mercy: Sent tactics for Enilias @Limit: Sent tactics for Matei @Rayne & Kedi: Recieved tactics, should be up within 2 hours.
Kaigan 04-23-04, 08:48 PM	Ok, Vryk vs. Mete is posted. Hope everything is alright.
Battousai2005 04-23-04, 09:28 PM	Ok, a question while I'm modding... A character has ranks from a previous class in a skill. However, the new class doesn't have that skill as a class skill. Can you buy the skill as though it were a class skill for the new class? Confused?
Ethendril 04-23-04, 10:23 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Ok, a question while I'm modding... A character has ranks from a previous class in a skill. However, the new class doesn't have that skill as a class skill. Can you buy the skill as though it were a class skill for the new class? Confused? The maximum ranks are the same as a class skill, but if you buy the ranks with cross-class skill points, you still have to pay double the cost. Example: Fighter 1 takes 3 ranks in climb. Fighter 1/Sorcerer 1 puts four additional skill points in climb. Since they are Sorcerer skill points, it's 4/2. The maximum rank is still 5, however, because it is a class skill. But since you buy it with Sorcerer skill points, you pay double the cost.
Mustadio[MoF] 04-23-04, 10:47 PM	Kith vs The LichKing is up. I hope there are not too many mistakes.
Magagumo 04-24-04, 12:03 AM	@Mercy Guess I should have confirmed sending of tactics. It was done 8 hours ago ;)
Arstimis 04-24-04, 06:00 AM	Tactics recieved from everyone I am Pitlording Tactics sent to all the Pitlords pitlording my fights, all 1 of them :P Sorry about the delay...long day...actually night..at work
Caterane 04-24-04, 08:38 AM	@Kedi: What`s that strange "Kiss me kill me" tag in your title? Seduced a WizO lately? @all: topic - Lichs Vaarkalikax the Lich king. Now that`s a cool idea for a character with much potential. Unfortunately it`s just another grey elf wizard. Great. I talked to Ethendril and he told me that he would love to play a real lich but with the current ruling it's not possible. 120.000 gold pieces for nothing are just insane! No character could afford this, not even at level 20. Then the Wizard 11 requirement makes this character ECL 15 to enter = 36 credits. Impossible. And even then, the character is short fun because he has only 5 levels to 20. What I want to say is: let`s allow lichs without the gp and lvl requirement. The gold is that not every wizard in a real campaign goes lich at the first opportunity, and the CL 11 req. assures that only casters go lich. Since we aren`t in a real campaign we could also just allow it; perhaps with a requirement to aquire 11 levels in a spellcasting class by level 20. The alternative is that we will never see a lich here. A pity indeed. I say let`s give Ethendril his fun and let him play a real lich instead of this imposter elf. The LA+4 already evens the benefits more than out; especially since some of his abilities will be useless against gladiators above lvl 5. What`s your opinion on that? I opened a thread to discuss this matter => here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=227046) Cat
kedi 04-24-04, 09:01 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @Kedi: What`s that strange "Kiss me kill me" tag in your title? Seduced a WizO lately? Cat Eh :D I had the "I'd kill to kiss: Illusen" in my sig, and guess she found it cute, and so gave me a custom title.
Caterane 04-24-04, 11:06 AM	A wizard fights a cleric. That sounds really interesting so far. Now what happens when the cleric`ll never get close to the wizard and the wizard does less damage than the cleric can heal? Yeah, the most boring fight ever... Sven Enno vs Aramil Dunskar (4) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3234595#post3234595) @Kedi: Illusen? Who`s that?? She doesn`t live anywhere near Germany now does she? :cool:
kedi 04-24-04, 11:18 AM	Originally posted by Caterane A wizard fights a cleric. That sounds really interesting so far. Now what happens when the cleric`ll never get close to the wizard and the wizard does less damage than the cleric can heal? Yeah, the most boring fight ever... Sven Enno vs Aramil Dunskar (4) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3234595#post3234595) @Kedi: Illusen? Who`s that?? She doesn`t live anywhere near Germany now does she? :cool: no :P she's a mod over tweens boards. Check my sig and rec room for her pic.
TaggIIV 04-24-04, 12:26 PM	Irwin vs. Arkin posted. ... Spoiler: close fight and in the end someone got pwn`d
Magagumo 04-24-04, 12:47 PM	Made comments on Lich topic, I honestly think my idea would work well.
kedi 04-24-04, 03:12 PM	Black Knives Organization (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3000622#3000622) Check it! We need a Warrior and a Rogue! O and, btw, I know, you will definietly kill me Cat, but: Edited Kedi, by deleting the ECL 2 Kedi and spending 3 points to make an ECL 3 Kedi. And please, delete that bump. And oh, btw, what do you think about the organization thing?
kattattack22 04-24-04, 04:02 PM	Celestial Protectors (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=227254[/url) has been created to preserve life and oppose the Black Knives. Visit the Thread to find out more. PM me if you wish to join.
Pitlords 04-24-04, 05:17 PM	What is the status of this character: Kedi the assassin There was a bump behind him but he has no losses mentioned. He is ECL 3 but posted on the second level roster. Edit: Ok, I got it. The Drak'something phenomenon occured again. From now on it`s Kedi'something :rolleyes: Edit2: Still not possible Kedi. A tiefling has LA+1 which means he can be created as a 2nd level character by taking only one level rogue. Credits may only be spent if necessary. Then a tiefling is not small but medium. There might be other mistakes but these are the most obvious ones. Please correct them. - Cat
Caterane 04-24-04, 05:37 PM	@all: I like the idea very much; good work Kedi! But let`s do a little planning ahead else there might pop up organizations for everything like the "Foundation" infection on the CO board. These organizations may become an official part in the CoCo World. First of all, let`s write "Organization: XXX" in the title so that it is easily recognizable as such. If it`s not too much work you could just recreate the threat by copy and pasting but that`s just a suggestion. Secondly, let`s announce the organization beforehand here in the Tavern, and discuss their function. This way you can see if there are any interested people. For example, not everyone might be jumping up enthusiastically if Motherbast opens his drugstore :D Another point is that we could create organizations which had already been mentioned at one point or another during the Arena history. So it would be better to check/ask first, or as already mentioned - anounce your idea in the Tavern and someone might tell you that there`s already an organization in existance. For example, instead of Celestial Protectors the organization would`ve been better off known as "The Celestial Forces", a term we heard more than once and the Forces participated in some of the greatest events in our history. Even now, they oppose the plans of the Lich Queen. What about changing the name to "Organization: Celestial Forces"? I`ll open it when I`m at home again. I see great potential in the organization idea. These threats might blossom and develop over time, coming to life and growing larger and more populated and since I am convinced that you`re all a creative lot I`m sure we haven`t seen everything here. Lastly, let us make some overall organization rules.
kattattack22 04-24-04, 07:37 PM	@Cat- I have no problem with The Celestial Forces instead of Celestial Protectors. It sounds better. I was thinking about creating the Mystars, but I figured the name was better staying with a dead group. It was just that when I saw the Black Knives I knew Arkin would try to oppose it the only way he knew how, a new incarniation of the Mystars. Proposed Organization Rules - Each organization must have of mission statement telling the COCO what the purpose of their organization is. - Keep organization rivalries in character. (maybe more a guideline than a rule) - Min. of 6 founding characters to become a COCO organization - Organizations found to be cheating and helping their fellow members by violating the COCO rules can be forcibly disbanded.
TaggIIV 04-24-04, 08:51 PM	coupla things: 1: what spell would be required to summon an evil outsider for the purposes of blackguard prereq? would a summon monster do it? 2: can a half-dragon, for example, which has an LA of +3 be brought into play with no class levels using 3 credits? 3: is there a bard gladiator in existance in COCO? i thought it might be kinda cool but id need a useful concept before investing the time in making one.. hm..
Arstimis 04-24-04, 08:59 PM	Originally posted by TaggIIV coupla things: 1: what spell would be required to summon an evil outsider for the purposes of blackguard prereq? would a summon monster do it? 2: can a half-dragon, for example, which has an LA of +3 be brought into play with no class levels using 3 credits? 3: is there a bard gladiator in existance in COCO? i thought it might be kinda cool but id need a useful concept before investing the time in making one.. hm.. 1. I think this was decided that summon monster would do it..if you could summon an evil outsider. I know i forgot something else about it..someone else should know 2. First tell me what its HP would be...then i will let you decide In other words..its gotta have some form of HD (ie. racial or class) 3. Yes, there has been, im not sure how it did/is doing know. again, someone else could tell you more
TaggIIV 04-24-04, 09:33 PM	hmm well ima gonna go fer the bard anyway :D. make way for the gladiatorial performer, Tanya Araewen the half-elven bardic person! (players can have more PCs then they can support credit wise, but they just cant have more than X number fighting per week, right?)
Jindl 04-24-04, 09:53 PM	1. Summon monster 2 is the lowest level spell that can summon an evil outsider (a lemure). Check a couple of pages back on this thread, as I already addressed the issue in much more detail. 2. You'll need a minimum of one HD, making you ECL 4. 3. There have been a few bards before, but Candy is the only one still active. Bards tend to excel at enchantment spells and archery, as well as use magic device. Good luck with your bard. I think they can be powerful, if played intelligently and creatively. -Jindl PS: I'll post some comments on the organizations and the lich question later, when I get back hom (am currently about 250 miles away at baseball games.)
Magagumo 04-24-04, 10:32 PM	Well now... I get to be on the end fo two bow criticals. Amazing rolls on my oppont's part... I bump at least, though I hate to think this reduces Tori as an effective build. Also, my own way fo tracking items has been approved, my bow is clearly listed as +1 in both my attacks and equipment. Not that this changes things much ;)
TaggIIV 04-24-04, 10:46 PM	Tanya (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3239254#post3239254) im going to work on history, appearance, and some kind of flavor text but im tired so it'll wait until the morning.. in the meantime its open for review and anyone who catches a numerical error i will thank them in advance. so, thank you ;)
kedi 04-24-04, 11:19 PM	@Cat: I posted that I casted Permanent Reduce Person on him. Hmm, darn it. Making it ECL 2 then :b: Originally posted by Caterane @all: I like the idea very much; good work Kedi! <<:bow:>> But let`s do a little planning ahead else there might pop up organizations for everything like the "Foundation" infection on the CO board. These organizations may become an official part in the CoCo World. First of all, let`s write "Organization: XXX" in the title so that it is easily recognizable as such. If it`s not too much work you could just recreate the threat by copy and pasting but that`s just a suggestion. <<I edited the title, but if you still want me to re-open it, that's fine>> Secondly, let`s announce the organization beforehand here in the Tavern, and discuss their function. This way you can see if there are any interested people. For example, not everyone might be jumping up enthusiastically if Motherbast opens his drugstore :D <<:) eh. The Black Knives work like an assassins guild, but limited to rogueish characters. We have also fighters, barbarians, clerics, mages etc. More detailed history, story id on the way!>> Another point is that we could create organizations which had already been mentioned at one point or another during the Arena history. So it would be better to check/ask first, or as already mentioned - anounce your idea in the Tavern and someone might tell you that there`s already an organization in existance. For example, instead of Celestial Protectors the organization would`ve been better off known as "The Celestial Forces", a term we heard more than once and the Forces participated in some of the greatest events in our history. Even now, they oppose the plans of the Lich Queen. What about changing the name to "Organization: Celestial Forces"? I`ll open it when I`m at home again. I see great potential in the organization idea. These threats might blossom and develop over time, coming to life and growing larger and more populated and since I am convinced that you`re all a creative lot I`m sure we haven`t seen everything here. Lastly, let us make some overall organization rules. @ kattattack22: Your suggestions sound fair. I'll add them to the rules section. :angel: vs :devil: :P
^Rayne^ 04-24-04, 11:22 PM	Note to forum Elder's, please put Vryk into the 5th tier group and a little 1b beside his name. He lost three in a row and got the big ol' bump. ;) Thanks!
kedi 04-24-04, 11:30 PM	Ok, so now he is a ECL 2 tiefling rogue with 6 hps. Satisfied? :P Ooo, and caterane, you're in my sig :)
kattattack22 04-25-04, 03:56 AM	Originally posted by kedi @ kattattack22: Your suggestions sound fair. I'll add them to the rules section. :angel: vs :devil: :P @kedi - Thank you. I tried to think of others, but those at least are a start. Now we just a neutral organization for the epic battle of good vs. neutral.
daemones 04-25-04, 04:27 AM	CoCo Rules Question: If someone took a wizard cohort, would that wizard have a spellbook containing his spells known, or would the leader character need to purchase those spells?
kedi 04-25-04, 11:09 AM	Originally posted by daemones CoCo Rules Question: If someone took a wizard cohort, would that wizard have a spellbook containing his spells known, or would the leader character need to purchase those spells? For ex: A 6th level fighter gets a 4th level cohort. Theeee speeeell boooook iiiisss puuuurchaaasssseeed byyyy theee wiiizard, aaas hisss mooooneeeeey issss 5400.
TaggIIV 04-25-04, 12:57 PM	Aramil Dunskar: Hey I need a big favor from you right now TaggIIV: where? Aramil Dunskar: At the COco, I don't have time to ref the match I have, so could you please do it? I'll send you there strats on a PM. TaggIIV: err.. ok ~~ excerpt from MSN convos.. i thught he was gonna post here, but he didnt.. so i am (doing an extra fight gets me another credit, right?)
Battousai2005 04-25-04, 05:46 PM	Sarah vs. Lillith (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=569) Spoiler . . . . . . Someone needs to work on their character in more then one way
Limit 04-25-04, 10:55 PM	Rhoar vs. Boldrift (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3247571#post324757)
Boldrift-Mattock 04-25-04, 11:21 PM	I think it is time to retire.?
Limit 04-26-04, 01:47 AM	Matei vs Zaphod (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3248867#post3248867) 38 rounds of funness. Lots of feedback is welcome, as a I expect a fight of this length will help me learn alot.
Druid Roxors 04-26-04, 09:32 AM	@ Cellardweller: Hmm, I did send out the tactics. I sent them friday at midnight, lucky that it didn't matter. Ive been very busy this last month and maybe so in the weeks to come. Which is why I have not volunteered to take any fights or use more than 1 character. The last fights were lost due to rushed tactics but ill try to give the arena the time it deserves.
Jindl 04-26-04, 11:18 AM	Originally posted by kedi For ex: A 6th level fighter gets a 4th level cohort. Theeee speeeell boooook iiiisss puuuurchaaasssseeed byyyy theee wiiizard, aaas hisss mooooneeeeey issss 5400. This is incorrect. Cohorts do not have any equipment of their own. Everything must be purchased by the player. A cohort who is a wizard would get his starting spellbook for free, containing any spells which he gets through normal level progression. Additional spells/spellbooks/equipment must be purchased by the PC. Cohorts may not have allies (which enter the arena), nor may cohorts (or other allies) craft anything. A wizard cohort could apply some pre-buffs to your character, but if a pre-buff is cast by an ally, then that ally must enter the arena with the PC. -Jindl
Caterane 04-26-04, 12:00 PM	@all: I just opened a new poll (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3250828#post3250828). This poll is to find a name for the city, something long overdue.
SnarkHunter 04-26-04, 12:23 PM	Fights up. Let me know if I've made some foolish mistakes. I'll say this-people need to be careful how they attempt to apply the polymorph spell. Read on here! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3251195#post3251195)
daemones 04-26-04, 12:40 PM	I've posted a new wizard up in the Gladiator's thread - please check him if you get bored, and let me know of any errors. I'd also like to volunteer to run a fight this week, more if you need low more 2nd lvl fights done.
Battousai2005 04-26-04, 12:55 PM	I started a new guild for heroic warriors, the Oathguard. Anyone who fulfills the requirements and wants to join is welcome to.
Caterane 04-26-04, 01:13 PM	Nice idea, Battousai. But... If now everyone opens his own organization then it`s all for nothing. Assuming that half the gladiators want to join a guild there will be no more than a two or four members per guild. So which guild will a paladin join? Of the four guilds 3 have similar goals: the Celestial Forces, the Celestial Protectors, and the Oathguards. There is little distinguishing between them. As I suggested: BEFORE opening a guild, post it here on the tavern, introduce it, we discuss it, and check if there are some people interested in it. The more organizations in existance the less important a single one becomes. At the moment we are still discussing the rules of organizations in a specific thread. Please let us discuss it here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=227633).
Limit 04-26-04, 03:06 PM	Is there any chance we could sticky the Tavern thread? It'd make it a lot easier to find then some of the other threads I'm not interested in reading.
Caterane 04-26-04, 04:03 PM	Indeed. Good idea Limit.
Magagumo 04-26-04, 04:44 PM	@ Cat I'm considering you challenge, but need your character to be considered readied and complete by Tuesday evening, then I will make my final decision.
SnarkHunter 04-26-04, 05:42 PM	Hmm so Harmonious Jade represents the Celestial Forces aye? I suppose Moon-moon could sign on as...oh, Justicar, or head inquisiter perhaps. And of course Naeregon Vulpus, can't allow that to stand unopposed. The comittee of concerned citizen's of {Blank Blank}, are now reqruiting any members who might be concerned about the rampant fanatiscm and fascist oppression of individual rights.
Limit 04-26-04, 10:39 PM	Laucian vs. Kage (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?perpage=1&s=&postid=3256306#post3256306) And what did we learn? Why, one war horse vs another war horse is an even fight. Riders? Oh, there were riders?
Mustadio[MoF] 04-26-04, 10:53 PM	Mustadio[MoF] shall now be known as MysticMonk2005
TaggIIV 04-26-04, 11:11 PM	smergel v. voiceless posted
SnarkHunter 04-26-04, 11:51 PM	@barrel: Just curious, I can't remember if you're around or not, but will Paul Hector be fighting donkey at level 9?
Arstimis 04-27-04, 12:45 AM	Grimlock vs. Angosh finally posted the other fight should be up soon. Sorry about the delay, i've been kinda busy
cellardweller 04-27-04, 02:32 AM	@jindl Can you please take me off the active pitlord list until further notice.
Arstimis 04-27-04, 03:31 AM	Jo'Li vs Heinrich is now also done. sorry about the delay everyone Also, i would like to ask something. Most everyone knows i just recently created my trog, taking me 6 credits which i just paid off. Just after 2 weeks i am kinda unhappy with how it is looking, he doesnt seem very good compared to others of his level. If it would be allright with everyone I would like to get rid of him, and instead bring in a drow (It'll be a fun, new, fresh, never before seen character). The main thing is that since i just basically wasted those 6 credits i was hoping i could sorta substitute it to pay for the new drow so i wouldnt have to go into more negative credits......please
Myrridin 04-27-04, 09:05 AM	Ok, so Zephin got ripped up by summoned creatures. His opponent was True Neutral, I'm assuming so, since you're required to list the alignment, and Druid has a "?" next to the alignment. What type of Protection from (alignment) potion would prevent the summons from attacking me?
Magagumo 04-27-04, 09:10 AM	@Artismis While I would say that you should simply give the boy time (we ECL's definetely have to work up a progression to success. Tori is v. good vs. moderate spellcasters [Good saves & SR] but has yet to fight one. I've noticed your trog's insane AC, he definetely hurt the monk, and could maul many of our meleers given the chance.) I don't know if it could hurt to replace him, though I would say that a drow would be a waste of cred (you can only make ECL chars with 2 class levels). I think I'd approve the creation of another ECL 4 though.
Jindl 04-27-04, 09:41 AM	@Myrridin - Any type of protection potion works against nuetral summons. Indeed a protection from alignment spell protects against physical contact from summons of any kind except the opposite alignment. Protection from good protects against good and nuetral summons, protection from evil protects against evil and nuetral summons, etc. And since Zephin is a spellcaster, he could cast the spell or use a scroll (it doesn't have to be a potion). @Arstimis - Sorry bud. I'm not going to approve reimbursing the credits for retiring an ECL creature. I think you should give him more time (heh, Donkey lost a bunch of fights in the beginning, and so has Tori). If you do want to bring in a drow, I can give you 3 negative credits (If you have 1 active PC, its only 1 fight a week to run). I would stick with the Trog a little longer... @All - I just want to reiterate again, playing ECL creatures is difficult. Most will fail in the early levels. Please realize this going into it, so that you are prepared when the character you spent a bunch of credits on loses a couple of times early. @Cat + MotherBast - The Dra'kel vs Ixidor fight will be up later. Sorry it's late. I'm taking a negative credit for the delay. @Arstimis, Mercy, and Hatzinger - Please check the Fights of the Week thread, as I posted a big error in the Jo'Li vs Heinrich fight. -Jindl
Arstimis 04-27-04, 11:09 AM	Yes..i know they are supposed to get better later...but i just dont see Zaphod getting better at all... He is 4 levels behind in spells compared to other casters, he has a horrible attack bonus...+4 at level 5 compared to 10's of most other meleeists. None of this will improve much anytime soon. I really dont see how he can get better...all he has going for him is his high ac...which isnt even that high...and his touch ac is only 9. Instant death by a wizard...at this level they have fly. Zaphod will be screwed if he ever fights a wizard. He just got worked in melee by a ranged fighter....whats he got going for him that should make me want to keep him? as much as i loved the idea...it just doesnt seem to be working out to well. if i do get rid of him, i would hate to just throw away those 6 credits....could i at least maybe give him to someone who wants to play a trog?...something so it doesnt go to waste
Caterane 04-27-04, 11:52 AM	@Arty: Hey come on! Keep the trog! That`s the first one that appeared and he is something special; I really like him. Give him time to develop. Sit down and plan ahead; you are just at the beginning so there`s still everything possible. Throw him away and you`ll never know if he would`ve been a strong build. You should also note the fact that you didn`t fight against all kinds of opponoments. Ixidor - specialized in resisting spellcasters - only faced melee monsters so far, and he was still successful (well, at least if he doesn`t get a double crit, right Jindl?). There`s no gladiator that is good vs all classes. Some classes pummel Zaphod to the ground but others have little chance against him. Next point is that firepower alone is boring. IMO building a cool character that is likeable by others is even more important. Rito Maya for example is the arena loser (I don`t wanna say that Zaphod will become another loser) but Mo kept him. With the amount of new players and their gladiators flodding in it gets more and more difficult to build a descernable character. And lastly, I have to agree with Jindl that the credits are not recoverable. Perhaps you can feel my position when I spent 27 credits soon. GO Zaphod GO!
Ethendril 04-27-04, 11:55 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Any type of protection potion works against nuetral summons. Indeed a protection from alignment spell protects against physical contact from summons of any kind except the opposite alignment. Protection from good protects against good and nuetral summons, protection from evil protects against evil and nuetral summons, etc. And since Zephin is a spellcaster, he could cast the spell or use a scroll (it doesn't have to be a potion). -Jindl What about protection from chaos or law? Does this also protect against neutral summons? @Arstimis: I'd sure hate to see your trog go. I think he has some great potential. Like Jindl said, the ECL creatures just need to get a few fights under their belts. I was very concerned for Dusk when he only had 12 hit points at level 4. I've still never fought anyone with fewer hit points than he has. I think there will always be some gladiators you don't match up well against, but you have some cool things going for you that will only get better. Your AC will be higher than almost anyone. Get some adamantine full plate to absorb some damage and get an animated shield. You can upgrade those claws to +5 weapons for much less than a normal weapon, and you have three attacks. Once you get second level cleric spells, I think you'll be okay. You're evil, so maybe animate some undead creature soon. I just hate to see such a cool gladiator go after only two fights (one of them a win!).
Battousai2005 04-27-04, 12:00 PM	ECL creatures do seem to get screwed at low lev fights. Heck, look at Akordia. She will rock. Someday... Maybe. Ok, maybe never. For now, I'm more interested in what Jindl said. How do protection vs alignment spells help against neutral creatures, be they summoned or otherwise? It doesn't seem right to me.
Arstimis 04-27-04, 12:03 PM	Ya..i like him, but i just dont see much good in his future..... 4 caster levels behind in spell casting can never really be made up bad attack bonus in melee...and lets not talk about range. I just dont see anything going for this guy....or anything anywhere in his future than looks good
Caterane 04-27-04, 12:09 PM	@Arty: You have 2 racial HD so you`re only 2 levels behind. Why see him as a pure caster? Make a fighter/cleric build, the divine magic to buff him and use scrolls, rest fighter. Stench, high Ac, 3 attacks, there`s potential in it. If you want me to aid you a bit I`ll do so but only if you promise to keep him for a while. And don`t you see that everyone likes your character after only 2 fights? Name someone who managed to accomplish this? @Jindl: I took over the Peter vs Grym fight from Marketshare. I got the message just now and I just returned from work. May take a few hours to finish it.
Jindl 04-27-04, 12:09 PM	Re: Protection from Alignment vs Summons Not that I mind answering the questions, but I feel like I'm repeating myself. Please take a look at the protection from evil spell in the PHB. It says that it protects against physical contact from summoned creatures (except for those of good alignment). All the other protection from alignment spells are based on protection from evil. So, protection from law works against chaotic and nuetral summons, etc. @Arstimis - Zaphod wasn't going to be a straight caster was he? I figured he would get a couple of cleric levels and then multiclass with fighter or something. -Jindl
Battousai2005 04-27-04, 12:12 PM	@Jindl: Still seems a little weird to me. @Cat: Any chance of approving the three new guilds from the three stooges?
Caterane 04-27-04, 12:15 PM	@Battousai: I was just about to call the Guild Master :) when I saw that Battousai posted something in the Tavern. 5 minutes...
Battousai2005 04-27-04, 12:20 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Battousai: I was just about to call the Guild Master :) when I saw that Battousai posted something in the Tavern. 5 minutes... Sheesh. Reminds me of Clark Kent calling Superman or Peter Parker calling Spiderman. (Cat Stares at a mirror) Cat: "So Guild Master, do you want to reply to those new guilds?" Reflection(Guild Master): "Oh, someone posted? I failed to notice." Cat: "Oh yes. You should get on it right away." Reflection: "I do believe I will do just that." Not trying to taunt in any way. Well, maybe just a little. I just finished with state testing. My brain is not what it should be.
MysticMonk2005 04-27-04, 12:23 PM	Yay for testing..... My head feels all fuzzy.... And If anyone would like to join the Ravens, PM me. (Can anyone tell me what the Ravens are from?)
Arstimis 04-27-04, 12:24 PM	4 levels behind 2HD+2LA, but..i think i may keep him....stop laucian for the new character
barrel_master 04-27-04, 12:32 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter @barrel: Just curious, I can't remember if you're around or not, but will Paul Hector be fighting donkey at level 9? Probably not.
Myrridin 04-27-04, 01:08 PM	I can run two fights this week, if we're low on Pitlords.
barrel_master 04-27-04, 02:40 PM	Also, I don't think I can get Peter ready for this week so I'll make Octavian (in the inactive list) active this week.
SnarkHunter 04-27-04, 02:48 PM	sigh, how about Grimlock then? Donkey so lonely...:( Also I gots finals this week so I'd like no fights if I can help it. Since I'll only have one (or zero!) gladiators this shouldn't be a problem.
Ethendril 04-27-04, 03:29 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter sigh, how about Grimlock then? Donkey so lonely...:( Level 7 is even worse...the only opponent Dusk can face is Corinthus...Dusk has already fought him twice in three levels. @Druid Roxors: Is Corinthus going to fight Dusk this week (yet again), or are we waiting for other opponents to make their way up?
Magagumo 04-27-04, 03:31 PM	@Spike After much deliberation, Zorander has challenged Pale-Rider. Mounted mage vs. bowman, your choice but I believe it would be an excellent test of both our skills and builds
Caterane 04-27-04, 03:33 PM	Hey, I thought you accepted the challenge from the Harvester!? You even wrote it in the PM!! :mad:
Magagumo 04-27-04, 03:35 PM	Well, you said I needed to write acceptance, Cat, and then you reminded me that Pale-Rider was fighting. Since it's not Wednesday, you can always just return the buckler of arrow-slaying. Sorry to abck out on you, but I would prefer actually fighting a wizard for once, I'm sick and tired of the mounted paladins and clerics (not to mention bards :P). So yea, no offense, but this is a better test for Zorander, I already know how dififcult characters like Harvester are for him.
Beldin 04-27-04, 03:44 PM	I'd like to run a fight this week, if possible
Caterane 04-27-04, 03:48 PM	Ha, how great. Jagath Kihr declines, Zorander declines, already fought Pale, and Anna hasn`t posted her ally still. Guess I`ll just sit out then.
Magagumo 04-27-04, 04:46 PM	Well Cat, you could always leave it up to chance, though I appreciate you allowing Spike and I to duel. Besides, a little sitting out never hurts, more cred building time (as with what I did with Bruno and Zorander while getting Tori). Btw, nicely run fight between Grym and Peter, though I don't know if Peter's character is aware of why memorizing a 2nd ;eve; spell at 4th slot doesn't change the DC.. . FYI, barrel_master, it is perfectly fine to memorize a spell at a higher slot, but without the Heighten Spell feat, it is not treated as a higher level spell, thus its spell level and DCs do not change.
Caterane 04-27-04, 04:50 PM	@Mag: :turkey: @Alterlat: :turkey: @Jindl: Is Anna ready anytime soon?
Battousai2005 04-27-04, 08:16 PM	@Current Pitlord: Please note that Kage Nightwind is level 6, not 5 as is currently displayed
MysticMonk2005 04-27-04, 08:46 PM	Please note: Mustadio[MoF] is no more. It is now MysticMonk2005 Pard, Sarah, and Drahk Longfellow have all been reposted with MysticMonk2005.
Alterlat 04-27-04, 09:14 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Ha, how great. Jagath Kihr declines, Zorander declines, already fought Pale, and Anna hasn`t posted her ally still. Guess I`ll just sit out then. Sorry Cat, I've been busy for a few days. Jagath can certainly fight the Harvester. After all, he loathes authority figures, and the avatar of death certainly qualifies as one. EDIT: Hang on! It looks like there may be a dwarf arriving at level 11 - a dwarf who just barely beat Jagath many levels ago. The Harvester may have to wait after all. @barrel_master: Jagath challenges Peter if you get him ready in time.
Jindl 04-28-04, 12:40 AM	@All - Pairings will be on Thursday, to allow for time to update after the late posting of some fights. Dra'kel vs Ixidor is posted. Congrats to the winner for very effective tactics. -Jindl
Hatzinger 04-28-04, 04:34 AM	I´ll retire Oetzi. Things that i have noticed with this pure ranged Ranger: - He starts strong in the early levels. He can put up immense amounts of pressure right from the first round, impeding the enemy´s buffing. - In mid-levels (9+), especially when the enmies are spellcasters, he has a hard time to adapt. - He cannot adapt to different fighting scenarios. The only thing he can do good is to use his massive firepower and to use his items. - His animal compnion is worthless, always too weak for the current level to matter in the fight. Also, the animal companion can´t be used to flank, as the handle animal skill isn´t sophisticated enough to do such things. - His magic skills are only slightly of use. The only spell of use for several levels will be entanglement, followed by the 2nd level spells spike growth and barkskin. - His skill selection is superb, allowing him to hide, move silently, spot, listen as well as a maxed-out rogue could. All in all, i think that a pure ranged Ranger is a poor class for lack of versatility. In the early levels his one strength (raw amounts of firepower) will win every fight, while in the middle levels, hís inability to adapt will severely restrict his tactical options. If the Dungeon Master wants an NPC who harrasses a low- to mid-level player group travelling in the wilderness, then use this guerilla. He can entangle the group, shoot a few arrows and sneak away undetected. (at least until the PCs get some better divination/deforestation spells). And he is easy to use, without much Special-Ability-Schnickschnack.
Hatzinger 04-28-04, 05:11 AM	I have suggestions for the COCO which i consider worth discussing: 1) To always play only the core classes gets boring now. The reason is that about every character concept has already been used and every new toon is a copy of a toon that already existed. - So the COCO can still be used to teach game-rules but can no longer be used to test different builds against each other. - I suggest to either a) decrease the credits needed to create ECL creatures or to b) allow other WotC material, like for example the new Players Guide to Faerûn or the Complete Warrior. - I think that the skill credit lowering would provide several months worth of experiencing new monsters. As we teach DMs the rules here, experiencing monsters with class levels would be perfect. That experience can directly be used in our campaigns at home. - If we include other WotC material, this would lead to a mass of Prestigeclasses and new feats/magic items. This would be alot more work for the pitlords, but provide for more usable toons. It would allow to test builds, Prestige Classes and magic items of the different settings in which players really play - not only core classes. This would benefit players more than DMs. 2) COCO-system: We should find different ways of checking the toons before the fights. This takes too much time from the pitlords and makes pitlording a strain on ones time. For example, i always checked every character intensely and often found errors (by the finding of which the players of the characters were helped), but this always took 2-4 hours before the fight. And these were only lvl 2-5 characters. If we really want to stay core, i suggest using one electronic freeware utility. The standartised charactersheets would help in checking. Also, most of these softwares don´t allow many errors to happen, like wrong skill point calculation, wrong hit point calculation et cetera. This would negate 90% of the errors in the character sheets and give the pitlords more time to run fights. A suggestion would be the RedBlade generator. It is easy to use and supports the Core Rules without further configuring. http://www.dark-legacy.com/redblade3e/3.5e/ I will create a new threat for this discussion - please reply there.
MotherBast 04-28-04, 08:15 AM	I got to a cpmputer for just a minute. I just wanted to say that I wont be home all week, so don't pair any of my characters, and dont assigne me any fights please. Miami is great, and I'll tell yall all about it soon.
Caterane 04-28-04, 09:04 AM	@Hatze: I appreciate your efforts in improving the CoCo! Would love to have more such suggestions. On to the topic: I am one of the biggest supporters for more options. I`m sure there`s no need to state all the various advantages if we would allow additional material. However, it isn`t as easy as that. First of all, people do not have access to all books. While the Core Books are a basic investment every D&D player has, it can even be played by using the SRD. The Player's Guide to Faerun and the Complete Warrior are two additional books to buy. I`m someone who buys nearly everything released but not everyone does so. But that`s not the main problem. Balance. We have no idea what impact a single new book like the Complete Warrior might have on the Core Coliseum. We already experienced two predecessors who failed due to allowing everything released (including Savage Species; enough said). And if we are going to allow the Complete Warrior we have to allow the Complete Divine too, and even then the Rogues and Wizards complain. And we are the Core Coliseum. Solutions? Playing a higher ECL creature shouldn`t be that hard. It took me 6 weeks to gather credits for an ECL 11 creature and this is an exceptional expensive build. A drow can be played with only 3 credits, and you`re allowed to take on negative credits (3 at the most) so that your character is ready to go at once. With another 3 credits your options widen even more. Check the roster and look how much ECL 4+ characters there are. A handful at best. So I see plenty of options. Then, we are going to expand. The Psionics Handbook seems to have much support. I haven`t had a look into it but I`m sure that there are plenty of new things in it and this will open a lot of new options! And it`s core. I have to agree on one thing: the CoCo has to develop and expand (the reason why I don`t want to ban allies; a step backward) else it will get boring with nothing new. There might come a time when we will consider adding new books but we should take little steps in that direction. Cat PS: Hehe, this whole thing sounds like the EU Eastern Expansion - next saturday, we integrate 10 new eastern nations. Including 20 instead would be too quick.
Myrridin 04-28-04, 09:49 AM	Cat: How'd you get enough credits for an ECL 11 creature in 6 weeks? Most of us Pitlords can't get more than 1, maybe 2 credits a week. Making the most credits we can get in 6 weeks 12. It takes a long time to get the 27 credits we'd need to build an ECL 11 creature. Not that it's not worth it. :) I think that's where Hatzinger is coming from, I know it's something I've certainely looked at.
Jindl 04-28-04, 12:18 PM	Cat's been running 3-4 fights each weekend, for 6 weeks. That's 18-24 credits. I hope you all will listen to me regarding the ECL creatures. They are tough to play correctly. About the whole options/variety thing, there are still lots and lots of concepts that have never been tried, using just the PHB races. Even if someone is playing a concept you like, you can still make a similar character - stats wise, as long as he is different RP wise. For example, if you think you can make a better human druid than Jindl of the High Forest, give it a shot. Just make the RP aspect different and I won't mind. You don't have to play an ECL creature to make a powerful and unique character. To the contrary, the ECL character's are proving to be less powerful in general than the non-ECL ones. -Jindl
Limit 04-28-04, 12:44 PM	Quick question - if a purchased mount (heavy warhorse, for example) dies in combat, is it restored to life before the next battle or do you have to purchase a new one?
Myrridin 04-28-04, 01:13 PM	Jindl: Gotcha. That's neat, I may try to do that when I have a little more time. Limit: You have to buy a new one.
Black Knife 04-28-04, 01:20 PM	8color=darkred]I am planing to bring up a green slaad. Now, first of all, I need to know if I am allowed to (for slaadi aren't described in SRD) and second, I will need to run at least 3 fights every week. I know I can, and be glad to if I was allowed to.[/color]
Black Knife 04-28-04, 01:20 PM	I am planing to bring up a green slaad. Now, first of all, I need to know if I am allowed to (for slaadi aren't described in SRD) and second, I will need to run at least 3 fights every week. I know I can, and be glad to if I was allowed to.
Caterane 04-28-04, 01:23 PM	A green slaad costs 42 credits :confused:
Black Knife 04-28-04, 01:27 PM	:twitch: *looks at the outsider hd…. And sees the LA….* Nevermind aobut the popst then :P
Hatzinger 04-28-04, 01:37 PM	Jindl, the arena has no roleplaying mission, as far as i am concerned. I use it to learn the rules better and to test builds, nothing more. The roleplaying part is done in my groups at home. So, as i am speaking with the testing of builds in mind, it does get boring to see the Xth clone of, say, Jindl of the High Forest. I think that now nearly all possible builds with core classes and core races (non-ECL+) have been tested against each other.
kattattack22 04-28-04, 02:11 PM	I disagree that all the builds have been tried. I have yet to see an orc or half-orc spellcaster and I have been with the coliseum for 3 and half months now. I believe that I was the only one to do a barbarian/druid that would have been a kicka** grappler at higher levels, but I didn't like the character much. I haven't seen too many new kobolds, gnomes, halflings, half-orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, teiflings, or aasimar builds. Nor has there any aquatic race even though they are allowed within the core rules without spending credits. Granted, that many ideas may not be very effective but who knows until you try. Pure fighter builds are also very rare yet disarming and tripping can be very effective. Two-weapon fighting can deal lots of damage if they can keep their weapons from being sundered and close with their oppoent. Both Aiki Auk and Ony tried this route and have been largely unsucessful. Maybe someone has an idea to make two-weapon fighting work. If I had time to run fights (maybe in a couple weeks here when school is done). I would try lots of characters just to see if they worked.
barrel_master 04-28-04, 02:18 PM	Originally posted by Alterlat Sorry Cat, I've been busy for a few days. Jagath can certainly fight the Harvester. After all, he loathes authority figures, and the avatar of death certainly qualifies as one. EDIT: Hang on! It looks like there may be a dwarf arriving at level 11 - a dwarf who just barely beat Jagath many levels ago. The Harvester may have to wait after all. @barrel_master: Jagath challenges Peter if you get him ready in time. Unfotunately, I just got home to read my fight and I'm just starting to look at doing stuff to Peter now... then in about 20 minutes I have to go to work. As such, I don't think I'll be able to get Peter ready this week.
Jindl 04-28-04, 02:19 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger Jindl, the arena has no roleplaying mission, as far as i am concerned. I use it to learn the rules better and to test builds, nothing more. The roleplaying part is done in my groups at home. So, as i am speaking with the testing of builds in mind, it does get boring to see the Xth clone of, say, Jindl of the High Forest. I think that now nearly all possible builds with core classes and core races (non-ECL+) have been tested against each other. Hatz - I've been on this thread longer than almost anyone who is still active. To date, I have seen 3 straight classed druids. Jindl and Lillith are the human ones. The other was a kobold who has long since retired. I have seen 2 straight classed rogues, both of whom are retired now. I've never seen an arcane archer, or a blackguard, or a duelist, or a dwarven defender. I've only seen 4 bards, and only one of them made it past 4th level. I've seen only one loremaster (my own character - the Elder) and he has long since retired. Jagath Kihr is the only character to take a level in Horizon Walker, and he took only one (though my character, Rhoar, is heading that way). The are so many variations in builds / races without even going to the ECL stuff. But what do we see every week, gray elf wizard + grey elf wizard + grey elf wizard. It's not that there isn't enough variety, its that people don't utilize it. I applaud those like Smergel (one of only 2 sorcerors) and Motherbast (whose Bard - Candy defies all odds). The only build that's getting cloned is the gray elf wizard. -Jindl
Caterane 04-28-04, 02:24 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master Unfotunately, I just got home to read my fight and I'm just starting to look at doing stuff to Peter now... then in about 20 minutes I have to go to work. As such, I don't think I'll be able to get Peter ready this week. @Alterlat: So you accept my challenge? You already did until you saw Peter. You have to add "Accepted challenge from the Harvester" in the headline. @Mag+Alterlat: Now that the Brotherhood of the Bow is established why not join them? Your characters were described as the leaders of this order so you should take up positions ;) @Jindl: Ixidor is ready (stats for hydra will follow some hours later). Big surprise: After months of inacitvity Ebelin Barnahdy will fight again though only if the 11th tier is odd. The Harvester goes first in any case, except if you pair me Pale-Rider then Ebelin will fight him (Harvester already fought him). Maximum fights, as always.
^Rayne^ 04-28-04, 02:36 PM	Jindl, so you say you haven't seen a duelist yet? Guess what... That is the path I have had planned for Vryk all along. Note the cross class skill points to Peform. ;) I planned Vryk from 2 to 20 when I first built him but I have made a few minor adjustments along the way. One other thing I would like to note, it doesn't surprise me that I am the only person who uses kobolds. They don't seem to be quite on par with the other races in terms of power. Maybe it is me but I am trying to make effective builds with this race. I actually have two more kobold builds in the works (one is a Ranger) and the other will be either a Bard or a Psionic user (if it ever gets okayed).
Black Knife 04-28-04, 02:45 PM	Well I am active for more than 2 moths and I have seen: Many clerics, clerics are the favourite class of the CoCo Many rangers, A few fighters An arcane trickster A thaumagratist An assassin Some wizards A paladin Some druids Some monks And except for the half-orc, I have seen all other races. This CoCo made most of the possible DMG-PHB combos. Except for some munchkins like: Gnome Bard / Eldritch Knight Human Wizard / Cleric / Mystic Theurge* Elf Fighter / Wizard Human or Half Elf Monk / Assassin Wild Elf Ranger / Duelist Duergar Fighter / Sorcerer (Psychic Warrior like combo)* Elf Bard / Arcane Archer Aasimar Paladin / Blackguard * Human Monk / Cleric-Sorcerer / Loremaster* The combos with asteriks are the combos I plan to make. I love CoCo.
Jindl 04-28-04, 02:50 PM	@Rayne - Here's another suggestion: The Kobold Arcane Trickster!! Kobold Rog4/Sor6/AT10 Start Rog1/Sor1 then go Rog2/Sor2/Rog3/Sor3-6/AT1-10/Rog4. This build has both evasion and uncanny dodge (depending on when you take Rog 4), and can deal great damage with sneak attack on any ranged touch spell. Makes good use of acid arrow and other spells which allow no save / no SR. -OR- Kobold Sor8/Rog1/Asn1/AT10 Start Sor6/Rog1/Asn1/AT10 (in order) then Sor7-8. This build is similar, but gives up evasion and uncanny dodge for the ability to use poison and 9th level spells. Combat works pretty much the same for either build. Just some ideas to think over... -Jindl
Caterane 04-28-04, 03:00 PM	My next build is a succubus blackguard. Dark blessing and Aura of despair adds nicely to +16 racial Cha bonus. A lamasu cleric would be powerful too; or a nymph - just for the sake to post a picture of my girl friend :D
Black Knife 04-28-04, 03:11 PM	Human Monk 2 / Cleric 5 +3 / Loremaster 10 Aasimar Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 6 +2 / Eldritch Knight 10 Aasimar Druid 4 +1 / Sorcerer 4 +1 / Mystic Theurge 10 Elf Bard 8 / Arcane Archer 6 / Duelist 6 More ideas…
kattattack22 04-28-04, 03:16 PM	Halfling Ranger/Fighter with that uses TWF w/ throwing axes and quick draw. goblin paladin if for no other reason than it would be interesting. Human Fighter/Wizard/Rouge I know this can be powerful just haven't figured out the right combination yet, maybe something with many shot, true strike, and arcane trickster.
The Magister 04-28-04, 03:25 PM	So I'm thinking of starting an Arcane Archer build, and am trying to decide between Ranger 1/Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Arcane Archer 10/Duelist 2 or just wimping out and going Bard 8/Arcane Archer 10/Duelist 2. Decisions, decisions, decisions.... I'm tempted to make the character a drow, but I hate the level adjustment. :P Kat: I suppose you could try to get to Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster to advance. Hmmmm, Fighter 1/Rogue 1-3/Wizard 1-5/Arcane Trickster 1-3/Eldritch Knight 1-3/Arcane Trickster 4-7/Eldritch Knight 4. Or there abouts, it depends on how many times per day your want Impromptu Sneak Attack I guess. :) Edit: Damn....wrong account.
Magagumo 04-28-04, 03:27 PM	Hmm, I haven't found Ranger's to be terrible, but you have to be willing to play the sneak game. Our rule of 10 rounds then loss are good, but I believe we need to give some consideration to characters that rely on hiding to survive (Zorander snipes, but if he needed to wait a few rounds for Righteous Might to wear off, this becomes an issue). SOmetimes, the waiting game is the best way for a chracter to play. Personally, I don't ever plan on trying to outwait a min/lvl spell, but trust me when I say that round/lvl spells (if I can determine an opponent is using them w/ SC, see RM and it's increase in size) are often worth avoiding. *Shrug* I like the rangers, and I think they demonstrate immense versaitlity with those spell,s you just got to know what to pick. Jagayh has proven incredibly effective as a melee ranger, while Zorander's archery shows incredible potential for peircing even v. high ACs. As for new books, I agree with Cat in that we can't add non-COre books, mostly ebcause people will not have access to them without purchase (I think Psionics 3.5 will be on SRD soon, if not already). Psionics adds even more versaility, esp. with the races, I am a bit tired of all the buff clerics, but perhaps we need more speedy kill people? The rogue has been on the decline, but surely there's room left for them? Ah well, I've got papers to write, just wanted to throw my own hat in ;)
KerlanRayne 04-28-04, 03:48 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 I have yet to see an orc or half-orc spellcaster and I have been with the coliseum for 3 and half months now. HELLO!?!? Grym Mordib is an Orc and he's a Barbarian 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight 4. Not a straight and narrow caster, but close. Some of the builds already exist, but many haven't looked at the smaller name characters. KerlanRayne
Jindl 04-28-04, 04:02 PM	Originally posted by KerlanRayne HELLO!?!? Grym Mordib is an Orc and he's a Barbarian 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight 4. Not a straight and narrow caster, but close. Some of the builds already exist, but many haven't looked at the smaller name characters. KerlanRayne Just so you know, Aku will have his revenge...
Arstimis 04-28-04, 04:40 PM	I will have a new character out soon, I don't believe the concept or build has been used before I think it might do well, I was thinking she might eventually get the highest charisma, but not with Cat's new character Oh, an I guess I will be taking -3 more credits with it
Magagumo 04-28-04, 04:50 PM	I hate to beat the grapple stick inot the ground, but the half-giant monk/psychic warrior appeals to me if the Psionics is deemd good. Soulknife also has much potential.. makes me happy :)
kattattack22 04-28-04, 04:54 PM	Originally posted by KerlanRayne HELLO!?!? Grym Mordib is an Orc and he's a Barbarian 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight 4. Not a straight and narrow caster, but close. Some of the builds already exist, but many haven't looked at the smaller name characters. KerlanRayne Oops. How could I forget the second defeat Ony suffered? Someday.... Ok, let me rephrase that. No new Orc spellcasters since I joined back in later December with Lucius Darkrune.
kattattack22 04-28-04, 04:54 PM	Somehow I double posted so... more build ideas Bard 3/Fighter 2/Rouge 2/Sorc 2/Ranger 1 Human - used as an NPC guide and didn't do that badly Sorc/Wizard High Elf Dwarf Monk 9/Dwarven Defender
Jindl 04-28-04, 05:03 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis I will have a new character out soon, I don't believe the concept or build has been used before I think it might do well, I was thinking she might eventually get the highest charisma, but not with Cat's new character Oh, an I guess I will be taking -3 more credits with it I doubt Cat will ever bring in the Succubus. Starting at ECL 12 with less than 50 hps isn't usually a good way to spend your credits. Sure, she's pretty, but she'll die if you breathe on her wrong... -Jindl
Caterane 04-28-04, 05:17 PM	Was an idea but I didn`t flesh it out. Melee characters won`t get her with greater teleport/ethereal jaunt at will, wizards would have no chance getting through SR, saves and resistances against every element, and suggestion with Cha 40 would be nice. Archers would be too deadly for her though so I leave it be. Zedarak will enter in one or two weeks. @Guild Founders: Is anyone interested in a Guild like the "League of extraordinary gentlemen" where you can only join if you`re a non-standard race? Just an idea. I`m already busy with the Celestial Forces, and even there I could use some help. @Celestial Forces Members: Anyone wants to aid me there? Ideas, most notably. I`ll give you the password if you`re interested.
Vilawyn 04-28-04, 05:56 PM	oo oo, speaking of char ideas, wouldnt a vampire be just the AWESOMEST? since yknow, fast healing 5 makes up for the low HD (anyone have 19 credits i can borrow to make a vampire?? i'll roleplay getting them a bagel/muffin and coffee/juice every morning! ^________^)
Ethendril 04-28-04, 05:57 PM	For anyone thinking it's getting stale around here (I'm not one of them), here are some ideas for races that I don't think we've seen, and that cost 12 credits or less: Fiendish Celestial Gnoll Lizardfolk Derro Grimlock Bugbear Half-Fiend Wererat Azer Werewolf centaur There are plenty of new possibilities here. Also, we have only seen builds up to level 13, and not very many at that. I think there's lots left to do. Personally, I'm excited to see the first person pull off blackguard.
Arstimis 04-28-04, 06:06 PM	Yay, then I might have a chance at the highest cha later one. Also, I think the league of extraordinary gentlemen woul be cool....but should be run differently, instead of any strange races, there should be one founder, whoever that is asks extraorinary character's to join, no matter the race. You can only be invited to join. Whoever picks people to join should pick characters that are very very good at what they do, or have some really useful abilities. One thing that should definitely used is invitation only. Cool idea
Jindl 04-28-04, 06:09 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis Yay, then I might have a chance at the highest cha later one. Also, I think the league of extraordinary gentlemen woul be cool....but should be run differently, instead of any strange races, there should be one founder, whoever that is asks extraorinary character's to join, no matter the race. You can only be invited to join. Whoever picks people to join should pick characters that are very very good at what they do, or have some really useful abilities. One thing that should definitely used is invitation only. Cool idea I like this idea. I'll post the League on the guilds thread, with Jindl of the High Forest as the founder. -Jindl
daemones 04-28-04, 06:31 PM	Personally, I'm excited to see the first person pull of blackguard. Irwin's moving toward bar 2 / rgr 2 / ftr 2/ blackguard x, but I'm hesistant to play a non-casting character. EDIT: I was also tempted to go ex-pal 1 / Blackguard 10 by using the level trade in, but decided that it wouldn't keep me interested in the meantime.
Arstimis 04-28-04, 06:40 PM	Originally posted by Jindl I like this idea. I'll post the League on the guilds thread, with Jindl of the High Forest as the founder. -Jindl nice...just the founder I was thinking of
Hatzinger 04-28-04, 07:43 PM	Yay, i have opened Pandora´s Box! Keep creativity coming! Cat, bring your succubus. For a meager 30gp (tower shield, full cover), you can drive any archer crazy. (i wonder why noone used this tactic vs. Oezti) I recently made two characters: - Poserion, Centaur Bbn1/Sor1/Dragon Disciple. Immensely strong. Fast also. Big grappler/tripper. - Kikitik, Xill Monk1. The be-all-end-all grappler. Noone except another Xill will ever beat him in grappling. (enlarged and with bull´s strength, his grapple check is +29!!!) Best part is: he planeshifts, buffs, shifts back to the material plane right behind you (invisible and with maxed move silently, so you can´t detect him) and grapples you. I think that without being able to see into the ethereal plane, any of your characters would be helpless against this one´s tactic.
Caterane 04-28-04, 07:49 PM	@Hatze: A Xill is an outsider so no enlarge. Planeshift is not very accurate: you appear up to 500 miles off target. But I really wonder why no one ever build a centaur
Hatzinger 04-28-04, 07:49 PM	wait a minute.... are scrolls destroyed when a wizard scribes them into his spellbook? i don´t think so. maybe heinrich can finally buy a magic item at lvl 6 then. ;-) PS: i don´t want to stir up the spell-acquisition debate again, but has anyone else noticed that the pure wizards can afford mostly nothing else when they have boughed their copy-scrolls?
Hatzinger 04-28-04, 07:58 PM	Cat, the Xill´s ability is not planeshift. I just used this word because i didn´t have the correct term on my mind. Looking into the SRD, i can inform you that his ability is called "Planewalk". And this one is accurate. :D I love the COCO for how it shows me day after day how i misunderstood/overread the rules. You are right, Cat. No enlarge person for my Xill. So his grapple check is only +25. You may still shiver in fear. :D PS: .... who of you outsider-characters used enlarge person before and overread that "type=humanoid" restriction on this spell like i just did? :devil:
Alterlat 04-28-04, 08:03 PM	Originally posted by Caterane [B]@Alterlat: So you accept my challenge? You already did until you saw Peter. You have to add "Accepted challenge from the Harvester" in the headline. Jagath is all set to look death in the face. @Jindl: I've always intended to have Jagath get more Horizon Walker levels - the single level he has so far has proved very handy. However, I think I may have to wait until he gets Camoflage from his Ranger progression.
Jindl 04-28-04, 08:07 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger wait a minute.... are scrolls destroyed when a wizard scribes them into his spellbook? i don´t think so. maybe heinrich can finally buy a magic item at lvl 6 then. ;-) PS: i don´t want to stir up the spell-acquisition debate again, but has anyone else noticed that the pure wizards can afford mostly nothing else when they have boughed their copy-scrolls? Yes, they are. (PHB pg 179). "A spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment." And check out Aku. He has managed to scribe lots and lots of spells relatively cheaply. Indeed, he now knows all 0th, 1st, and 2nd level wizard spells, and many of the 3rd and 4th level ones. -Jindl
Caterane 04-28-04, 09:11 PM	NEW POLL AVAILABLE! The lich (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2734709#post2734709)
^Rayne^ 04-28-04, 09:11 PM	Q: What is the DC to Climb the Columns in the Arena? They must have some DC to climb them and I've always been curious about this. Also do they touch the ceiling or are they flat at the top and not used to support the ceiling structure?
cellardweller 04-28-04, 09:12 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril There are plenty of new possibilities here. Also, we have only seen builds up to level 13, and not very many at that. I think there's lots left to do. Personally, I'm excited to see the first person pull off blackguard. Don't tell me we are racing again! Shiaan is heading for Blackguard after a brief stopover in dragon disciple!
TaggIIV 04-28-04, 09:24 PM	question on vampires (yes i'm really desperate to get my hands on one of these ;)) is it added to a creature, or does it have to be applied upon creation? ie could like a level 9 human obtain the vampire template, and be reduced to a level 1? or would you need 21 credits to bring one into play.. hehe..
SnarkHunter 04-28-04, 09:51 PM	Well the vampire template can only be applied to a 5 HD or more creature. I suppose you could level up to a 5th level then apply the template (after getting some 24 credits that is.) Yeah good luck at 14th level then.
Vilawyn 04-28-04, 09:57 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Well the vampire template can only be applied to a 5 HD or more creature. I suppose you could level up to a 5th level then apply the template (after getting some 24 credits that is.) Yeah good luck at 14th level then. hm.. i dont suppose i could just pay for a polymorph and permanency to be cast? ;)
Jindl 04-28-04, 10:03 PM	@TaggIIV - I think you may be sadly disappointed in the effectiveness of a vampire in the arena setting. Low hps, bab, etc from having a LA of +8 will cripple you in combat. And if you do have a strategy, your opponent merely has to invoke one of your vampire weaknesses (such as garlic, a mirror, or a strongly presented holy symbol) and you are toast. Not to mention the devestating effects of a sunbeam spell. -Jindl
Vilawyn 04-28-04, 10:10 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @TaggIIV - I think you may be sadly disappointed in the effectiveness of a vampire in the arena setting. Low hps, bab, etc from having a LA of +8 will cripple you in combat. And if you do have a strategy, your opponent merely has to invoke one of your vampire weaknesses (such as garlic, a mirror, or a strongly presented holy symbol) and you are toast. Not to mention the devestating effects of a sunbeam spell. -Jindl well low hps, i thought, could be countered with the fast healing ability. since HDs are converted to d12s, lets say we have a base class of a sorceror or wizard at level 5 before going vampire. thats 38 HP (with no Con mods, as the entry says).. also, the weaknesses you mentioned of garlic, mirror, and holy symbol simply prevent the vampire from making melee or touch attacks on it (ranged still available if im interpreting correctly). also, it uses up a standard action to do that, so if you constantly are using it to repel the vampire you sacrifice ever being able to execute full round actions as for the sunbeam, yes i suppose that would be horrible :twitch: Anyways since i can never rack up enough credits to get a vampire into play, i dont think we'll see one showing up :)
Ethendril 04-28-04, 10:23 PM	Originally posted by cellardweller Don't tell me we are racing again! Shiaan is heading for Blackguard after a brief stopover in dragon disciple! Dusk can't wait...with Smushy gone, I have no arch-nemisis. Of course, there's always that Zedarak guy.
Battousai2005 04-28-04, 11:54 PM	New character Armanithil (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3277280#post3277280) posted. Scan for errors. Used 3 creds in the making. And the arena has a new archer! :D I would like it to be known that I will go into cred burn this week, ending up with 0. I don't wish to mod 2 fights right now.
KerlanRayne 04-29-04, 02:35 AM	@Arstimis: Hey, what are you going to do with Zaphod? You mentioned you might give him away. KerlanRayne
Smergel 04-29-04, 04:18 AM	When I levelled Smergel up from 3 to 4 I replaced Combat Casting with Skill Focus: Concentration. As someone mentioned, CC is more or less useless in the Arena. If anyone objects, I'll change it back, of course. -Magnus
Caterane 04-29-04, 06:54 AM	I updated the Introdution in the Guild Registry (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3251801#post3251801). All Guild Leaders should check it out. The most important change is the prerequisite to apply for a guild: you must either have 4 founding members or a powerlevel of 16. Existing Guilds are not disbanded though they should see that they fulfill the prerequistes over time. For the moment we have a handful of Guilds, so that most of the gladiators should find at least one or two attractive. Let`s give them time to develop before opening new ones. Of course, you may still apply at the Registry if you think you have an important one that isn`t listed yet (Monk's Abbey comes to mind) Thanks Cat
Caterane 04-29-04, 07:55 AM	@all: Many of you know the annoyance when you realize that you made a mistake in your build. How often did we see a gladiator that made it to high levels only to be replaced by a new character due to some minor mistakes. Just recently Arty wanted to retire his troglodyte because of some mistakes in the build. My own character - Ebelin - sat on the inactive list for months because I realized that I made some mistakes in the build. I would suggest that we make a new rule that enables you to change a minor thing on your sheet. With minor I mean that you didn`t use it very often, or that it was to no avail (not due to bad roles), and similar things. As a compensation you have to pay credits, let`s say 5 per change (so that it isn`t easy to do so), and you get a tag on the roster that you altered something aswell as a note on your sheet. Example: In Ebelin's case it is his Weapon Focus (Longsword) he took at level 1. He never even drew a longsword in all his 16 fights, and never will so this is just a wasted feat. I would really like to replace it. Dodge, on the other hand, is not replaceable though I would like to do so, too. The character benefited from dodge in nearly all fights; same goes for Improved initiative and similar things. There were so many gladiators that vanished over time only to be replaced by a nigh similar character. The result is that the high level tier is constantly spread thin while the low level ones boom. However, nearly all retire before they reach the high level roster. I don`t want to freeze the top-gladiators every 2 months to wait for new ones to arrive. If a gladiator retires because of a minor mistake it`s no use to anyone... From this new rule the CoCo would greatly benefit. What do you think? Cat
Limit 04-29-04, 08:04 AM	Pairings today! I'll take 2+ fights this week if they are available. I have to attend a wedding Saturday, but I'll need someone to do while my hang-over wears off Sunday. :smirk:
Jindl 04-29-04, 10:36 AM	The League is up. The only member currently is Anna, Ghost of the Arena. (I decided that she was more appropriate for a league based on unusual powers / races / abilities.) Jindl of the High Forest is now working to create a guild for Druids and their allies. Please contact me if you are interested... -Jindl
The Magister 04-29-04, 10:43 AM	I'd like multiple fights this week, if possible.
Myrridin 04-29-04, 10:47 AM	The above was me, posting as the Magister....I'll get used to this having to use 2 idenities soon, I promise. But yeah, multiple fights if you please. :) As a second character, I'm trying to decide if I want to go for the arcane archer, or if I'd rather just wait and play either a Bralani or a Hound Archon.
Smergel 04-29-04, 11:18 AM	I want to try judging a fight. Is there a procedure for joining that elite group of rule experts? :) -Smergel
Jindl 04-29-04, 11:20 AM	Originally posted by Smergel I want to try judging a fight. Is there a procedure for joining that elite group of rule experts? :) -Smergel Send me an email or a PM with the email address you want to recieve tactics at, and I'll add you to the list of pitlords. -Jindl PAIRINGS IN 6 HOURS (or so).
Jindl 04-29-04, 11:29 AM	@Cat - I just sent you an important PM. Please read it and respond. -Jindl
MysticMonk2005 04-29-04, 12:17 PM	@Cat Sounds good to me. The reason for this arena is to find out good builds. As we play, we find out what is and what isn't usefull. We need to be able to incorporat this learing into our characters without having to start over.
Ethendril 04-29-04, 12:22 PM	@Cat: I like your proposal, but can't we already change things about our characters to some extent without spending credits? I have seen multiple instances where someone says "I haven't used this feat, can I change it?" and the answer is always yes. Why can't Ebelin change his weapon focus-longsword if he's never used it...I'm sure your DM would allow it at home. Of course, changing improved initiative or dodge (that have been used every fight) would be different, and maybe that's where your suggestion could come in. I would support it in that case.
Battousai2005 04-29-04, 12:28 PM	@Cat: There is just one problem with your suggestion. You see, there is the possibility that you will draw your longsword. One of the things that people have to live with as far as their characters go is that some mistakes are made. Take Kage for example. He has skill ranks in Handle Animal that he has yet to use. I could technichally dump all but five (due to the ride synergy) and get a more useful skill (dunno what.) The thing is that most of the time, a character gets a feat and often we forget why it is there. Sometimes, however, a character may use the feat or skill in the future. If its a big mistake, like Kage was about to take mounted archery (I have used a total of 2 arrows through all my fights) then it might be doable. In the example of Arti's trog, I think that a complete remake of the character is kinda necessary for what he wants to do (which is villinous evil, dasterdly, and downright detestable. You hear me Arti?!? Evil!!!) because it involves remaking ability scores and class levels.
TaggIIV 04-29-04, 05:01 PM	idk if something similar to this has already been considered and put down, but anyways i had an idea.. a different kind of credit (lets use ¤ for purposes of this post): Prerequisite: ~Active Pitlord ~Character used to get ¤ credits level (4 or 5? adjustable) or higher Purpose: An alternate way to bring out higher LAs How to Earn ¤s: The basic idea would be that if you win a match that is in a league higher than the prerequisite one stated, you can choose to, instead of levelling, take a ¤ credit. For example lets say Bill is a level 10 gladiator. He won a match against Bart. Rather than advancing to level 11, he chooses to take a ¤ credit. That would mean he remains at level 10, even though he won the match. Now the exact power of these credits is adjustable - either the same power as a +, or each ¤ could equal 3 +s (one LA) Also, it might be wise to instate something like you can't earn more than one ¤ per week. Perhaps better: you have to decide prior to the fight if you would like to shoot for a ¤, and you can choose only one fight per week. open for commentage :D
Ethendril 04-29-04, 05:29 PM	@Jindl or Cat: I have activated Kiri (already PMed Jindl). Please take her out of the inactive pool. She will renew her efforts to track down the elusive Bilo.
Jindl 04-29-04, 06:52 PM	pairings? you want some pairings? BAM !! I got your pairings right here! (so stop editing your sheets, cuz pairings is underway).
^Rayne^ 04-29-04, 07:19 PM	Hi, I asked about the DC to climb the Columns in the arena. I did notice in the description of the Arena that it says the columns go from the floor the roof but I still am curious about the DC to climb one. I've seen a lot of older stone columns and many of them are built in large drums that are stacked. They are fairly smooth but there is uneven places and grooves that would allow a very good climber to move up on. I used to rock climb and I've seen some pretty amazing things in this non-fantasy world so I imagine that these columns can be climbed by someone with very high skill. I am guessing the DC is 25 but it could be ruled that the columns are perfectly smooth and they cannot be climbed at all. So if one of the Elders wants to make a ruling I would like to see what they think it should be set at.
Battousai2005 04-29-04, 07:28 PM	Jindl, while your doing pairings, you want to make sure Armainithil is on active?
Pitlords 04-29-04, 08:42 PM	Pairings are done. 1. Tactics due by Friday (so hurry.) 2. Pitlords may run fights with tactics on Friday. 3. Pitlords may run fights with default tactics on Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. Good Luck! -Jindl
Druid Roxors 04-29-04, 10:45 PM	@ Jindl: Just one thing... why am I alone in the 7th level block? Dusk has this in his heading "[ECL 7] Ready for April 29 " Dusk is (and was) ready.
^Rayne^ 04-30-04, 12:55 AM	Myrridin, I PMed you Aiki Auk's tactics verses Sven. Rayne
Pittbull 04-30-04, 05:25 AM	@ Battousai2005 : Tactics have been sent via E-Mail. Please confim quickly, I won't be at home at weekend. I hope I've lucky :dice: :dice: :dice: !!!!!!!!!!!
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 04-30-04, 06:01 AM	Sended tactics to Daemones via PM.
Hatzinger 04-30-04, 06:34 AM	@Myrridin: tactics for Heinrich (vs. Kage, ECL6) have been sent via email and pm. i won´t be available this weekend, so if any big issues come up, you may use heinrich as you wish. (treat him like your own grey elf wizard ECL6 clone)
Limit 04-30-04, 08:05 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ Jindl: Just one thing... why am I alone in the 7th level block? Dusk has this in his heading "[ECL 7] Ready for April 29 " Dusk is (and was) ready. If you need someone to volunteer to run this fight, I'll take it.
Myrridin 04-30-04, 08:24 AM	Rayne and Hatzinger: Tactics have been received.
Myrridin 04-30-04, 09:03 AM	Tactics sent to MysticMonk2005 via e-mail.
kattattack22 04-30-04, 10:13 AM	I just done with a big paper sometime around 7 US Central Time. I should have my tatics in tonight, but now I am really sleepy.
Jindl 04-30-04, 10:33 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ Jindl: Just one thing... why am I alone in the 7th level block? Dusk has this in his heading "[ECL 7] Ready for April 29 " Dusk is (and was) ready. Ethendril must have forgotten to edit his sheet. He asked me via PM to leave Dusk out this week, both to avoid another rematch against Corinthus (his 3rd in 4 levels) and so that he could activate Kiri without having to run more than 1 fight. So, I changed Dusk to inactive based off of his PM, regardless of what the sheet title said. Sorry Corinthius is alone this week. But at least he is guaranteed a fight next week (since he has a doesn't fight credit). Oh, and PM me if you are interested in joining a druid's guild which Jindl will be starting. (This applies to Lillith, freemoody and Dra'kel, MotherBast also.) -Jindl
Ethendril 04-30-04, 10:39 AM	@Cat & Mag: I know everyone is in a rush to get tactics finished in time, but I would appreciate your tactics as soon as possible on the Zorander/Ebelin fight. Also, this is the highest level fight I've done, so please clarify/remind on any difficult issues with your tactics. Thanks. -Ethendril
The Magister 04-30-04, 10:59 AM	I would like to remind any wizards of sufficient power that the halls of the Brotherhood of the Arcane Order are open.
Captain Mutilate 04-30-04, 11:30 AM	... I'm still able to referee fights...
Druid Roxors 04-30-04, 12:00 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Ethendril must have forgotten to edit his sheet. He asked me via PM to leave Dusk out this week, both to avoid another rematch against Corinthus (his 3rd in 4 levels) and so that he could activate Kiri without having to run more than 1 fight. So, I changed Dusk to inactive based off of his PM, regardless of what the sheet title said. Sorry Corinthius is alone this week. But at least he is guaranteed a fight next week (since he has a doesn't fight credit). Oh, and PM me if you are interested in joining a druid's guild which Jindl will be starting. (This applies to Lillith, freemoody and Dra'kel, MotherBast also.) -Jindl OH, well that clears things up. I'd join your guild, provided its theme is ... adequate. (you are making a briefing right?)
kedi 04-30-04, 12:09 PM	I have a question. Can we spend credits to attach a template to our existing characters? For example: Kedi is a ECL 2 rogue. I spend 12 credits and add him the half-fiend template -Is it legal? And if it is, can I get more than Active PCs - 1 fights?
kedi 04-30-04, 12:14 PM	BTW tactics sent to beldin. Can't believe I am fighting with tagg. :rollseyes:
Mercy 04-30-04, 12:36 PM	@Kaigan - Tactics for Jo'Li have been sent.
Ethendril 04-30-04, 12:37 PM	@Limit: Tactics sent for Kiri (please take a look at these and let me know if you have any questions...this could be a tough fight to run). @Cat: Tactics sent for Vaarkalikax.
Magagumo 04-30-04, 12:40 PM	@Ethendril I've got work from 1-3, will send them right over afterwards
daemones 04-30-04, 01:34 PM	@Kazz: Tactics received @Battousai: I'm at work and pretty disgustingly busy, but I'll have my tactics to you this evening. Sorry I can't get them to you sooner.
kattattack22 04-30-04, 03:46 PM	@Mercy - Arkin's tatics sent via email
Jindl 04-30-04, 03:49 PM	Tactics sent via PM for both Rhoar and Aku (sent to TaggIIV and Limit, repectively.) How'd I get myself into two difficult matches ??? -Jindl
Magagumo 04-30-04, 03:50 PM	@Ethendril Zorander's tactics sent off, and now Tori's are done as well.
The Ravens 04-30-04, 06:47 PM	Recieved tactics for one guy waiting for others. sent both longfellows tactics.
Mercy 04-30-04, 07:04 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 @Mercy - Arkin's tatics sent via email Received
SnarkHunter 04-30-04, 08:38 PM	@Kedi: I think that would be allowed only if it is an aquirable template. So that would work for Vampire, werebeast (afflicted), and the like.
Battousai2005 04-30-04, 09:27 PM	Tactics for Angosh and Enilias recieved. Tactics for Kith sent. Kage should be right on his way as soon as I figure out how to beat Hat's wizard. Rematch. Ugh.
Battousai2005 04-30-04, 09:58 PM	Tactics sent for Kage. I still don't have tactics on either side for my ECL 3 fight
TaggIIV 04-30-04, 10:14 PM	@Jindl: tactics received @Arstimis: tactics sent for sharptooth @Beldin: workin' on tanya's tactics as we speak.. i'll post again when i send them
TaggIIV 04-30-04, 10:29 PM	@Beldin: tactics for tanya sent over PM
Myrridin 05-01-04, 12:21 AM	I have received tactics for all of my fights. Thanks.
daemones 05-01-04, 12:35 AM	@Battousai: Tactics sent. I'm really tired, so forgive me if I rambled. @MysticMonk: Tactics Received.
kedi 05-01-04, 01:35 AM	All tactics recieved. [don't ask, just don't :rolleyes:]
Arstimis 05-01-04, 02:37 AM	Tactics sent to Kaigan All tactics recieved
Caterane 05-01-04, 04:35 AM	Tactics sent for Ebelin Barnahdy, Archangel Ixidor, and the Harvester. Tactics received for Octavian Cesar, Grym Morbid, Vaarkalikax, and Johan Talyana. Still missing: Allian Silversword, DeepwoodElvenArcher and Candessa Rain, MotherBast Though I remember Motherbast saying he`s not at home or something *shrugs*
Beldin 05-01-04, 06:35 AM	both tactics received @kedi: send a email with some concerns.
Beldin 05-01-04, 09:05 AM	@mystic monk: aemons tactics have been send @battousay: delayars tactics have been send
Jindl 05-01-04, 09:56 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Still missing: Allian Silversword, DeepwoodElvenArcher and Candessa Rain, MotherBast Though I remember Motherbast saying he`s not at home or something *shrugs* I don't know about DeepwoodElvenArcher, but if you can give him/her an extra day or two before running, just in case they didn't know about the late pairings. As for MotherBast, he said not to pair his characters, but then he set Candy to be ready, so I didn't know which to do. I made the pairing with Johan, because there isn't any other characters that level. If you don't get the tactics from MotherBast, then consider that pairing postponed to next week. I don't want the fight done with default tactics with these high level characters. -Jindl
Limit 05-01-04, 10:17 AM	@Ethendril: Tactics received @Jindl: Tactics received Fight will be run tomorrow. :) @Tagg: Tactics for the Voiceless sent
TaggIIV 05-01-04, 10:58 AM	eeeh.. *check email* received
kedi 05-01-04, 12:00 PM	oerplied to beldin
Caterane 05-01-04, 12:47 PM	@Jindl: Ok, I`ll wait until I get tactics from MB though I would like to keep/get the credit. Deepwoodelvenarcherrangefanblockholylong namewhatsupwithhim gets another day to send me tactics
freemoody 05-01-04, 03:14 PM	I hope the upcoming Druids guild will accept Lillith, despite her unsavory exploits on the Roleplay Thread.
Mercy 05-01-04, 04:57 PM	@Aramil Dunskar - please send your tactics soon or I'll be forced to use your default tactics
kedi 05-01-04, 05:12 PM	Beldin, is mine and Tagg's match up?
Vilawyn 05-01-04, 05:27 PM	Originally posted by kedi Beldin, is mine and Tagg's match up? (psst,, if it was i believe it would be posted in the fights thread :p)
Battousai2005 05-01-04, 06:13 PM	Tactics recieved on all sides. I may or may not have the fights up soon. I just took my SAT tests, so my brain is not what it usually is. That is a bad thing. I dont have all that much to start with.
Beldin 05-01-04, 06:42 PM	oh yes it's up... someone really has to show me how to make a link. i hope there are not too many mistakes.
MotherBast 05-01-04, 09:01 PM	I'm back at last. I noticed Candy got paired. Sorry I left her set to ready. I did that before I left Saterday, when I thought I would be back wednesday. I just now got back. I wont be able to do any tactics this week, but I'll gladly take the same matchup next week. Whats with all the new guilds and whatnot? I almost didn't recognize the thread. I'll have to look into them. I'll check the new polls and get my votes posted. And Rayne: In the arena, the columns arn't necessarly columns. If the player needs them to be a tree, then they are trees, if they should be long steel polls, then they are long steel polls. However, the arena is always "defalt" for conditions. The "Defalt" DC for a climb check is 15, so I would suggest always using 15, no matter what the object is assumed to be.
Battousai2005 05-01-04, 09:07 PM	Delayar vs. Irwin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3300184#post3300184) is up. Not a horribly long fight. Kindly report any screw ups I have.
MotherBast 05-01-04, 09:25 PM	After looking over this new guild system, Brackin is now intrested in creating a Monks Guild. I'm just not sure what is ment by a "neutral account"? Does that mean I should create an alternate account just for the guild? I can do that. Dra'kel will be joining the Monk guild as well, and I invite anyone else with monk levels to think about it when I get it posted. Candy would also like to state her intrest in joining the LXG. She isen't unusual per say, but as the only Bard at her level, her powers are very unusual to the arena. She is also the biggest celebraty in the whole damn world, and most of the LXG members in the comic were people of great fame. Candy would meet that requirement. Of course, Sanzin would tag along behind her. If you let Candy in, though, you might wana change the name to LXW, since all the members would be women instead of gentelmen. Failing that, Candy might start an "Entertainers" guild. Not sure how much intrest that would gain though.
Caterane 05-02-04, 03:47 AM	@MB: Check the other guilds to get the idea. The Celestial Forces are a good example though they are far from finished. A monk's abbey would be a good idea. An entertainers guild not due to lack of interest. Check the requirements to open a guild. So Candy isn`t fighting? @Guilds: All but one guild is in violation. Note that your guild may be disbanded if you don`t get into compliance over an extended period. Notify the Guild Master on the Registry that you have fixed the violation. I would also recommend to read the updated guidelines. @Battousai: Please check the "Comments thread"
kattattack22 05-02-04, 04:47 AM	Originally posted by MotherBast After looking over this new guild system, Brackin is now intrested in creating a Monks Guild. I'm just not sure what is ment by a "neutral account"? Does that mean I should create an alternate account just for the guild? I can do that. If you let Candy in, though, you might wana change the name to LXW, since all the members would be women instead of gentelmen. Yes, the neutral is another account like LXG, Harmoneous Jade, Black Knife, etc. Actually if you changed LXG, would probably be LXL (League of Extraordinary Ladies).
Caterane 05-02-04, 06:10 AM	Octavian Cesar vs Grym Morbid (10) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3302569#post3302569) is up.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-02-04, 11:41 AM	I still do not have received tactics for Kith Deathscythe, Battousai2005 vs Drahk Longfellow, MysticMonk2005 figth. If I do not get them soon (whitting 10 hours), I use default tactics for the figth.
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 12:14 PM	I sent tactics to the E-mail adress listed. I can re-send them if you wish, or I can PM them. I know for a fact that Mystic Monk sent in his as well.
Mercy 05-02-04, 12:47 PM	Aramil vs. Arkin is posted
Jindl 05-02-04, 12:54 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 As to why I ran this absentmindedly, I mentioned in the TAVERN, where I took it news was supposed to be posted, that I would like only one fight. Jindl (no offense) gave me two. One and I would have time to think things out. Two makes things a bit rushed, especially since we have little enough time to run them with the loss of a day. I don't know if we dont have enough pitlords (unlikely), but I knew I was not going to have a lot of time. Sorry, I didn't see that you only wanted one fight. It's not that we don't have enough pitlords, its that we don't have enough pitlords who can run higher level fights. Especially this week, with Tellish, MotherBast, Magagumo, Snarkhunter, and cellardweller requesting to have the week off. I really hope that the newer pitlords can become more comfortable with running fights and be able to handle the higher levels soon. -Jindl
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 01:07 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Sorry, I didn't see that you only wanted one fight. It's not that we don't have enough pitlords, its that we don't have enough pitlords who can run higher level fights. Especially this week, with Tellish, MotherBast, Magagumo, Snarkhunter, and cellardweller requesting to have the week off. I really hope that the newer pitlords can become more comfortable with running fights and be able to handle the higher levels soon. -Jindl I said I wasn't blaming you. I was just a bit snappish with Cat. He seems to enjoy shooting down others, so that was just a slight retribution.
Jindl 05-02-04, 01:37 PM	@Market_Share and Alterlat - The tactics for Jagath Kihr were mistakenly sent to me. I have forwarded them to Market_Share. @Battousai and Mercy - Please check the Fights of the Week thread, as I have posted something regarding the DC for the caster level check to use a scroll that is higher level than the PC. -Jindl
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 04:43 PM	Fight fixed (again). Please, no more errors!!!:bigeyes:
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-02-04, 05:28 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 I sent tactics to the E-mail adress listed. I can re-send them if you wish, or I can PM them. I know for a fact that Mystic Monk sent in his as well. Well, his message has not reached my Email, so he must also send his tactics via PM (PM at least works 99% of the time).
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 05:34 PM	@Kazzaroth Pan'theon(couldn't you have made a slightly shorter name?): Your e-mail seems to be out at the moment. Either that, or the one posted is incorrect. I sent the mail to the adress and the response was it was sent back.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-02-04, 06:46 PM	Type simply kazzaroth or "Kazz" like everbody mostly do ;). Well, I tested it and sended email to myself, and I did not get it (strange, maybe link is not working). Anyways, I give my email in here; garthalla@susiraja.net It is strange if this should not work now (I tested it and it worked now at least).
Caterane 05-02-04, 07:21 PM	@all: This is perhaps a bit inconsequent of me but the current result is obviously favoring Gladius, without competition. Based on the facts, it seems that Gladius will get an absolute majority so I would suggest we forget about the Poll-10 and Poll-5, and let this poll decide which name our city will get. If there`s but one single complain about this new rule, we proceed normally as we initially planned it though IMO this would only delay the inevitable. The Poll-10 is cancelled in any way. Cat
kattattack22 05-02-04, 07:29 PM	Long live the free city of Gladius!
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 07:52 PM	Well, saw that one coming. Ok, now a general question. Now that my horrific first fight is done, can someone give me a good response on this one. I was doing the fight for Enilias vs. Angosh when I noticed something. Enilias wants to ride his new eagle as far up as it will go on the first turn. Doing the math (with some help from Arti) I came up with 20 times the square route of three. Since this distance is an irrational number, I am not sure where to put the eagle. Lay-mans terms: How do I round decimals for moves that end in a decimal?
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 07:54 PM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Type simply kazzaroth or "Kazz" like everbody mostly do ;). Well, I tested it and sended email to myself, and I did not get it (strange, maybe link is not working). Anyways, I give my email in here; garthalla@susiraja.net It is strange if this should not work now (I tested it and it worked now at least). Well, I PMed my tactics to you, but I have no idea as to what Mystic Monk will do. EDIT: I got the following message when I tired to E-Mail you. The original message was received at Sun, 2 May 2004 19:53:15 -0400 (EDT) from root@localhost *** ATTENTION *** Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its delivery. The address which was undeliverable is listed in the section labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----". The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----". The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could not be delivered. The next line contains a second error message which is a general translation for other e-mail servers. Please direct further questions regarding this message to the e-mail administrator or Postmaster at that destination. --AOL Postmaster ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <garthalla@susiraja.fi> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mail.kolumbus.fi.: >>> RCPT To:<garthalla@susiraja.fi> <<< 550 relaying mail to susiraja.fi is not allowed 550 <garthalla@susiraja.fi>... User unknown Final-Recipient: RFC822; garthalla@susiraja.fi Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mail.kolumbus.fi Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 relaying mail to susiraja.fi is not allowed Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 19:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Magister2005@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 7.1de.1ed02d69 (4468) for <garthalla@susiraja.fi>; Sun, 2 May 2004 19:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Return-path: <Magister2005@aol.com> From: Magister2005@aol.com Message-ID: <1de.1ed02d69.2dc6e3eb@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 19:53:15 EDT Subject: testing To: garthalla@susiraja.fi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1de.1ed02d69.2dc6e3eb_boundary" X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6803
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-02-04, 08:30 PM	:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: I do not have clue what heck is wrong whit my email. I received mail from my mother's email (I momently "borrowed" her account to test the link). Maybe it is because susiraja is in fully eastern Finland network, so it is more difficult to foreing accounts to send email to me. Well, glad there is still PM box :rolleyes: .
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-02-04, 08:39 PM	I posted the Kith Deathscythe vs Drahk Longfellow figth. I type the stoyr later tommorow. *go to sleep, soon deep snoring can be heard*
Jindl 05-02-04, 09:12 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Well, saw that one coming. Ok, now a general question. Now that my horrific first fight is done, can someone give me a good response on this one. I was doing the fight for Enilias vs. Angosh when I noticed something. Enilias wants to ride his new eagle as far up as it will go on the first turn. Doing the math (with some help from Arti) I came up with 20 times the square route of three. Since this distance is an irrational number, I am not sure where to put the eagle. Lay-mans terms: How do I round decimals for moves that end in a decimal? Let's see, 20 x 1.73... = 34.6... rounds to 35. So the bird moves 35 feet upward. Remember, distances always round into 5 ft increments. -Jindl
MotherBast 05-02-04, 09:14 PM	Notice to any and all monks. Brackin is starting a monk's guild. Please PM me, or notify Brackin on the RP thread if your intrested. I'm not going to post the guild untill I meet the requs, no point in it if it gains no intrest.
Arstimis 05-02-04, 09:17 PM	@ Bat..(not even going to try spelling his name..if i spell it wrong he may hurt me...or try anyways) When i was talking to you, the problem figured out to be 40 times the square root of 3, not sure where the 20 has not came from. but when we did the original 40 the answer was 69.232..or so, and we figured it would be approximately 70..so..ya
cellardweller 05-02-04, 09:43 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis @ Bat..(not even going to try spelling his name..if i spell it wrong he may hurt me...or try anyways) When i was talking to you, the problem figured out to be 40 times the square root of 3, not sure where the 20 has not came from. but when we did the original 40 the answer was 69.232..or so, and we figured it would be approximately 70..so..ya This is incorrect. You do not work out movement via Pythagoras. Moving to an adjacent square costs 5' and every second diagonal costs an additional 5' (it doesn't matter that the diagonal is in more than one dimension). Note also that a giant eagle doesn't have perfect maneuverability and as such pays double costs for climbing.
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 09:52 PM	My, but my math teacher would be unhappy about this conversation.
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 09:53 PM	Originally posted by cellardweller This is incorrect. You do not work out movement via Pythagoras. Moving to an adjacent square costs 5' and every second diagonal costs an additional 5' (it doesn't matter that the diagonal is in more than one dimension). Note also that a giant eagle doesn't have perfect maneuverability and as such pays double costs for climbing. So can you solve this one for us, then?
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 11:01 PM	Angosh vs. Enilias (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3308873#post3308873) can be found here. Short fight, but I gave a little flavor. Check for errors(please not too many! *crosses fingers)
Kaigan 05-02-04, 11:29 PM	Jo'li vs. Zaphod is up. Hope there wasn't too many errors
daemones 05-03-04, 03:27 AM	Sarah vs. Kazeira is posted. It's my first fight, so go easy, neh?
Caterane 05-03-04, 04:54 AM	@Battousai: That was a great story! Very interesting narrative style. I liked it a lot! I hope others follow such shining examples (though I hadn`t time to check for mistakes but the story is really good). A fight without a story has nothing to add to the CoCo World. I reread every single fight from the very beginning on and take over what can be used. Unfortunately there are still not that many cool stories out there.
Magagumo 05-03-04, 07:44 AM	2x
Magagumo 05-03-04, 07:45 AM	Well, interesting and clever tactics are often key contributions as well ;). Agreeing with Cat , however, that that was an incredibly good read, Battousai. It definitely had a little LOTR flair, and the more narratives I read, the better feel for description I gain as a GM (one of my weaknesses). I must admit, from a tactical standpoint, I was not sure why Enilias was an exact split of fighter and wizard, but I can see how the two have complemented one another well in this siutation. One issue with the fight (only one I saw), is that when Angosh rolled a 1, one of his items would have been exposed to fire as well. There's an elaborate system, in the PHB I think, based on the possibility of items afflicted. Not a huge deal, obviously, as even if the shiled had been affected, it woud have taken half damage (fire) - 10 (resist energy protects items) -10 (hardness). So yea, no big there.
Myrridin 05-03-04, 10:17 AM	Sven vs Aiki (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3311254#post3311254) Let me know how it is.
barrel_master 05-03-04, 11:04 AM	Hey, were's the old general tavern thread?
Jindl 05-03-04, 11:11 AM	@barrel - this is it. we just stickied the tavern... -Jindl
Myrridin 05-03-04, 11:31 AM	My second fight is up. Kage vs Heinrich...take 2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3311602#post3311602)
kattattack22 05-03-04, 01:50 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @barrel - this is it. we just stickied the tavern... -Jindl I think he means the old Core Gladiators Discussion thread that was labeled Tournament when the COCO was established.
Jindl 05-03-04, 02:05 PM	The old Arena thread was unstickied. It has fallen to page 4 (which you won't see unless you change the settings at the bottom to read From the beginning). Here's the link: The Core Arena Discussion Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=69399) -Jindl
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-03-04, 02:27 PM	Originally posted by daemones Sarah vs. Kazeira is posted. It's my first fight, so go easy, neh? Well, one thing actually I noticed what you forgot (otherwise you controlled my char well). You forgot make spell resistance check. Drows have 12+char level naturall magic resistance. So, before those ray of frostes would had damaged me, you should had rolled did the spell get trough. Also if I recall, ray of frost is ranged touch attack (so hit must be rolled). btw; Does my char now raise a level now that he had losed three times in the row? Also do I get gold from the match (despite I losted).
Jindl 05-03-04, 02:33 PM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon btw; Does my char now raise a level now that he had losed three times in the row? Also do I get gold from the match (despite I losted). Yes (and you'll notice I already moved him up on the roster). And yes, you get gold appropriate to winning the fight (2700 gp, I think.) -Jindl
Ethendril 05-03-04, 03:21 PM	Ebelin vs. Zorander is up. This was a tough fight for me to run, so I hope there were not too many errors. If there are fight-altering errors, I'll make adjustments. -Ethendril
barrel_master 05-03-04, 03:40 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Ebelin vs. Zorander is up. This was a tough fight for me to run, so I hope there were not too many errors. If there are fight-altering errors, I'll make adjustments. -Ethendril Woh, I think we REALLY need to revisit the polymorph rules in the arena. It says it functions like alter self which has the restriction that you can only change into a form that's either 1 size larger or smaller then you. A remohaz is huge. As you can see from this fight things became very unbalanced if the size restriction is taken out.
Beldin 05-03-04, 03:53 PM	after reading the ebelin vs zorander firght i have a question: what happens if a character carries more than heavy load? ebelins strength was drained by 10 points (there was no listing for his gears weight, but i don't think it is that heavy) thanks
Magagumo 05-03-04, 04:04 PM	Bah, nothing wrong with the sizes, the Remorhaz is a strong Huge beast with 7 HD, I can't complain if I was devoured by one ;). Congrats Cat, I knew initiative would count for this fight, and it seems I haven't been winning it in a while *shrug* no big, it was fun planning against Ebelin :). One note, Cat, you cannot track Zorander to where he was headed, or it wouldn't be hiding. This is no different then when an opponent moves for cover behind a column, but we do not allow them to be tracked to that column. I think we are making exception to the rule concerning "hiding while being seen," but I might be mistaken. *shrug* Nevertheless, I believe you ahev to accept that Zorander can begin hiding within 15' of a column, and I think its fair to say that you would not know which column he moved to. Anyways, Solid Fog trumps all in this case ;)
TaggIIV 05-03-04, 04:19 PM	when someone is hiding behind a pillar and is in 'total cover,' is a hide v. spot check to be rolled, or is it assumed the hider is invisible until the spotter aproaches from a reasonable angle? if the answer is yes you roll hide/spot, what circumstance bonus does the hider get?
Jindl 05-03-04, 05:02 PM	Originally posted by TaggIIV when someone is hiding behind a pillar and is in 'total cover,' is a hide v. spot check to be rolled, or is it assumed the hider is invisible until the spotter aproaches from a reasonable angle? if the answer is yes you roll hide/spot, what circumstance bonus does the hider get? It is supposed to be very difficult to get total cover from columns and such, because the column is exactly the same size as a medium or small creature. In order to grant total cover, the column would have to be exactly in a straight line between the two characters. Otherwise, its just cover. -Jindl
TaggIIV 05-03-04, 05:18 PM	what checks does murray need to make to sense invisibility, and how does scent alter a normal peroson's ability to do so?
Ethendril 05-03-04, 05:23 PM	Originally posted by TaggIIV what checks does murray need to make to sense invisibility, and how does scent alter a normal peroson's ability to do so? Scent allows him to automatically detect an opponent with 30'. With a move action, he can tell the direction of the scent. When within 5' of the source, it's pinpointed.
Caterane 05-03-04, 05:25 PM	Ethendril, wow!! That was a most entertaining fight which kept me on my toes all along. It reminded me off the old days of the CoCo (especially with this old character). I`ll surely add this one to the Celestial Forces Roleplay thread. Hey, and a double 20 again :mad: Third time on 3 weeks in a row @Mag: Congratulations on a very fearsome foe. That was Ebelin's fire baptism. First I thought about changing into a hydra ;) @Jindl: Please give me a quick answer: do I get a negative credit if I run the Vaarkalikax fight tomorow? I mean, we started on thursday so I was wondering. In any case, I cannot afford a neg.credit so I´ll begin now, but I would like to add a story tomorow.
Pitlords 05-03-04, 05:25 PM	Originally posted by TaggIIV what checks does murray need to make to sense invisibility, and how does scent alter a normal peroson's ability to do so? from the SRD Scent (Ex): This special quality allows a creature to detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell. Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights. The creature can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. When a creature detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed—only its presence somewhere within range. The creature can take a move action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever the creature comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature pinpoints the source’s location. A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom (or Survival) check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10 (no matter what kind of surface holds the scent). This DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.
Jindl 05-03-04, 05:27 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Jindl: Please give me a quick answer: do I get a negative credit if I run the Vaarkalikax fight tomorow? I mean, we started on thursday so I was wondering. In any case, I cannot afford a neg.credit so I´ll begin now, but I would like to add a story tomorow. Since pairings were late this week, I won't give any negative credits until Wed. But everyone please try to get the remaining fights done. I'd like us to get back on schedule. -Jindl
Arstimis 05-03-04, 05:30 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Since pairings were late this week, I won't give any negative credits until Wed. But everyone please try to get the remaining fights done. I'd like us to get back on schedule. -Jindl I am well into my fight..and it should be done in a bit.
TaggIIV 05-03-04, 06:32 PM	Voiceless vs. Rhoar posted --went through extra lengths to spell out all roll results and round-by-round statistics - lets hope it paid off and the match is error free :D
Magagumo 05-03-04, 07:56 PM	@ Cat Good you didn't, 8 heads are fierce, but Zorander's AC makes him incredibly hard to hit... and now he's finally buying a buckler!! (Should have done that a long time ago...). Note: Sadly, I will not be participating in the boards this week, as I am going down to see my cousin graduate from the Marines (not a bad thing, but I want to see if Zorander can win his next fight ;)).
Arstimis 05-03-04, 08:10 PM	Dang it! this really sucks. I got done with my fight, and the boards had an error, and i lost all of it. One good thing is that i used an online roller, and everything is still there...so i am going to post a really quick version of the fight i did...sorry about it Here is the poorly done fight..... (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3315333#post3315333)
barrel_master 05-03-04, 08:52 PM	I should have more time now. I'll mod 1 fight next week if it's okay with the board.
Aramil Dunskar 05-03-04, 08:57 PM	Sorry to say but my cleric has been falling apart latly due to the fact that I built him wrong. So he is going to take and early retirement. So please remove him from the active dueling list and I'll introduce my new cleric who actually will move faster and I think is cooler, Ernie the Great, shortly. Thanks -AD
Jindl 05-04-04, 12:10 AM	@Mercy - Jo'Li should have only gotten 3200 gp for winning his fight (not 4000 gp) because he has a 20% xp penalty (monk1/druid 3 with favored class=fighter). So you need to remove 800 gp. Also, I hope you know that there is no way Jo'Li can remedy this problem, since he cannot take additional levels of monk. He will recieve 20% less gold for winning each fight throughout the rest of his career. @barrelmaster - Great! I had hoped you might find the time to run some fights again. I'll try to start you out with an easy one :D (I prolly should have started Ethendril back out with an easy one, but he handled it well...) @Aramil - Per your request, your old character has moved to the inactive list. Pairings will likely be on Thursday, so make sure you post your new character by then, and make sure you write "Ready for 5/6/04" as the subject!! @Captain Mutilate - You mentioned that you could still run fights, so I moved you back as an active pitlord. Please put a post here so I know you're still around. Also, did you want to post a character (since you'll get the same # of credits whether you have a character or not.) @Druid Roxors and Market_Share - How's everything going on your fights guys? Do you think they'll be posted tomorrow? Do you guys need any help on them? -Jindl
Limit 05-04-04, 12:17 AM	Fight Posted. Aku vs Kiri (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3317722#post3317722) Gonna go find some food, exploding eyeballs makes me hungry.
MysticMonk2005 05-04-04, 12:27 AM	Can you sneak attack with a touch attack spell? Like oh say, Shocking Grasp?
Jindl 05-04-04, 12:32 AM	@MysticMonk - Yes, as long as the target meets the sneak attack criteria (within 30 feet, denied his dex bonus or flanked, not immune to crits, etc.) [SPOILERS] What? You mean one of Jindl's characters actually had some lucky die rolls? I ... I ... I don't understand. But, I'm sure lucky dice will never happen for me again. This has to be a fluke! ( :D @Limit - Good job on a higher level fight! )
MysticMonk2005 05-04-04, 12:49 AM	how many charges does a thing of DustOfDisappearance come with? BTW: I am terribly terribly sorry about the delay in the fight, I've been extreamly busy/tired. Should go up tomarow.
Jindl 05-04-04, 01:06 AM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 how many charges does a thing of DustOfDisappearance come with? BTW: I am terribly terribly sorry about the delay in the fight, I've been extreamly busy/tired. Should go up tomarow. The price listed in the DMG is for 1 unit of the dust. Don't sweat the fight, it won't be counted late until Wed. Please, if you're tired and still running it, make sure you review it tomorrow, when you're wide awake, just in case... -Jindl
Myrridin 05-04-04, 08:17 AM	I agree. :) Though I am a waiting anxiously for the results of my fight.
Mercy 05-04-04, 08:18 AM	Originally posted by Jindl @Mercy - Jo'Li should have only gotten 3200 gp for winning his fight (not 4000 gp) because he has a 20% xp penalty (monk1/druid 3 with favored class=fighter). So you need to remove 800 gp. Also, I hope you know that there is no way Jo'Li can remedy this problem, since he cannot take additional levels of monk. He will recieve 20% less gold for winning each fight throughout the rest of his career. I calculated by adding 4000 gp and then putting an "Xp penalty (20%) 800 gp" in the "Past Expenditures" section of the character sheet. So if you add up all the gold spent and the gold left over it would add up to the amount expected for a 6th level character. I figured it would be easier for people to check the character this way.
Jindl 05-04-04, 09:55 AM	Originally posted by Mercy I calculated by adding 4000 gp and then putting an "Xp penalty (20%) 800 gp" in the "Past Expenditures" section of the character sheet. So if you add up all the gold spent and the gold left over it would add up to the amount expected for a 6th level character. I figured it would be easier for people to check the character this way. Very nice :D This is really a great way to show the XP penalty. I think we'll have all characters in this situation use this method in the future. -Jindl
Jindl 05-04-04, 09:58 AM	@Market_Share - Mo's not here, so I'll say it for him: You are the Dwarf!! That fight was hilarious. -Jindl PS: I don't suppose you could add a round-by-round and tactics and stuff...
Battousai2005 05-04-04, 10:10 AM	Just thought I would let everyone know that Kage and Kith are taking a break this week. I feel like I've been ignoring Akordia. She and my Gith will be on active this week. Again, only one fight plz
Caterane 05-04-04, 11:47 AM	@Jindl: If the Candy vs Johan fight is delayed then there`s only th eHarvester and Ebelin on the 11th tier, both mine. Wouldn`t it be better if we assign the pairings anew before having me sit out twice? MB didn`t want to get paired anyway.
Myrridin 05-04-04, 11:53 AM	Cat: The Zephin & Aemon fight still needs posting. I, for one, would like to know the outcome.
Jindl 05-04-04, 11:55 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @Jindl: If the Candy vs Johan fight is delayed then there`s only th eHarvester and Ebelin on the 11th tier, both mine. Wouldn`t it be better if we assign the pairings anew before having me sit out twice? MB didn`t want to get paired anyway. I'd suggest: Candy vs Ebelin Johan vs Harvester 2 That avoids rematches and involves all 4 PC's at that level. How do the 3 players (Caterane, cellardweller, and MotherBast) feel about this match-up? I suppose I can run one fight (prolly the Johan vs Harvester 2). I would like a volunteer from between Mercy, Ethendril, Limit, Tellish, Snarkhunter, or Magagumo to run the other fight (Candy vs Ebelin). What do you think? -Jindl
Caterane 05-04-04, 11:58 AM	Agreed. That`s what I would`ve suggested too
Mercy 05-04-04, 12:38 PM	@Jindl - I'm ok with running the Candy vs. Ebelin for the 5/5 week, but if another pitlord volunteers I won't mind not doing it. I'm not much of a story teller someone else might be better for the fight.
Jindl 05-04-04, 02:17 PM	From the character sheet of Aku Spellbook (Blessed Book ??/1000): • Level 0 - All • Level 1 - All • Level 2 - All • Level 3 - All • Level 4 - Polymorph, Enervation, Greater Invisibility, Solid Fog, Stoneskin, Dimension Door, Black Tentacles, Confusion • Level 5 - Feeblemind, Telekinesis[/b] Hrm. Aku now knows ALL of the spells of 3rd level or lower... Boccob's Blessed Book is truly a great item. -Jindl
Ethendril 05-04-04, 02:24 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Hrm. Aku now knows ALL of the spells of 3rd level or lower... Boccob's Blessed Book is truly a great item. -Jindl I must admit, this gives you tremendous flexibility... However, aren't there some spells that have absolutely no arena value, and therefore waste gp?
Jindl 05-04-04, 02:37 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril I must admit, this gives you tremendous flexibility... However, aren't there some spells that have absolutely no arena value, and therefore waste gp? Sure. But it is a lot more intimidating to write: Spellbook (Blessed Book ??/1000): • Level 0 - All • Level 1 - All • Level 2 - All • Level 3 - All etc, etc, etc. Besides, it wastes less money than using potions every round, etc. Hopefully, as Aku continues to progress, he can eventually learn all the 4th - 9th level spells. -Jindl
Guild Master 05-04-04, 02:45 PM	It was a warm summer evening, and the Tavern was filled to the last seat. Gladiators drank, sang, plotted, grappled, or flirted with the woman, when the door opened and another man walked in. The Tavern grew instantly silent: it was the dreaded Guild Master! The one who is said to never leave his Registry Building except for visiting the Guild Embassies looked around the room, and on some of the gladiators he focused his gaze. His thoughts were clearly written on his stern face. "At all guild leaders! I have just checked every embassy and found nothing but empty rooms! I posted notes to every embassy but did not get an answer. Note that nearly all guilds are in violation and will be disbanded if they do not get into compliance!" He unrolled the paper he held in his hands, and began to read "Kedi of the Black Knives! Your guild houses members not belonging to it! You may request a special permit to host bodyguards but they will not add to the powerlevel of your guild!" Kedi - who was just about to slit someones throat - stopped at once and began to reply but the Guild Master read on... "The Oathguards have completely disappeared. If they do not set up their rooms (roster) at least within one week they will be disbanded!" That brought a laugh to Enilias Surion but that laugh died not even a second later "Brotherhood of the Bow! You have to anounce new members at the Guild Registry! Check your Guild Embassy for further violations! There are more violations so either you comply or you will be disbanded! Founding a guild is a serious matter and must be tended! Also, there are new guidelines posted in the Registry, most importantly the posting of missions, and the reworked roleplay purpose." The Guild Master nodded to Dusk, member of the Celestial Forces, the shining example among the guilds - then turned and left the Tavern. The mirth though didn`t return for the remainder of the night...
Ethendril 05-04-04, 03:05 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Sure. But it is a lot more intimidating to write: Spellbook (Blessed Book ??/1000): • Level 0 - All • Level 1 - All • Level 2 - All • Level 3 - All etc, etc, etc. Besides, it wastes less money than using potions every round, etc. Hopefully, as Aku continues to progress, he can eventually learn all the 4th - 9th level spells. -Jindl Okay...so it's an investment in intimidation factor. Good idea. It's like a scary portrait on your character sheet. Cat's new character has a picture that has good intimidation factor.
Jindl 05-04-04, 03:17 PM	What? You don't like Aku's potrait on his character sheet? His great big flaming eyebrows are far more intimidating than any barnyard/lizard hybrid. -Jindl
Ethendril 05-04-04, 03:30 PM	Originally posted by Jindl What? You don't like Aku's potrait on his character sheet? His great big flaming eyebrows are far more intimidating than any barnyard/lizard hybrid. -Jindl I thought that was just a given...that Aku's portrait is the most intimidating possible goes without saying. I meant that following that, Cat's new minotaur/half-dragon looks fairly tough. But it's pretty far behind, of course.
Ethendril 05-04-04, 03:35 PM	I wanted to throw out an idea for a new guild, founded by Vaarkalikax. The guild would be for all elves who think they are undead (well, I guess we could allow other races, too, but the Guild Master may think that is too broad of an idea.). Is anyone interested in joining?
Caterane 05-04-04, 03:41 PM	@Ethendril: LOL, and you think there are many elfs how think themselves lichs but aren`t out there? I am still waiting for the infamous BONESNATCHERS GUILD!!
Limit 05-04-04, 03:52 PM	Originally posted by Mercy @Jindl - I'm ok with running the Candy vs. Ebelin for the 5/5 week, but if another pitlord volunteers I won't mind not doing it. I'm not much of a story teller someone else might be better for the fight. I'm not opposed to running the fight, it'd be fun.
Ethendril 05-04-04, 04:22 PM	Dusk opened his eyes after ending his meditation, then turned to his attendant. "Send for Arkin Jozil. Harmoneous Jade has a mission for him." kattattack22, see Celestial Forces thread for a mission, should you choose to accept it!
kattattack22 05-04-04, 04:59 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Dusk opened his eyes after ending his meditation, then turned to his attendant. "Send for Arkin Jozil. Harmoneous Jade has a mission for him." kattattack22, see Celestial Forces thread for a mission, should you choose to accept it! Ethendril, Arkin's response is there and a fun story I wrote before the Harmoneous's charge was up. EDIT: Arkin Jozil challenges Zaphrod! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3325546#post3325546)
Caterane 05-04-04, 05:52 PM	The story of Ebelin's hunt continues here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3325820#post3325820)!
Aramil Dunskar 05-04-04, 06:05 PM	New Character is up. I hope its better then the last one. Check him out and let me know if I did anything wrong. Thanks -AD
Ethendril 05-04-04, 06:05 PM	Cat: I loved how you continued my story. Very cool additions, and an amazing job on the story. I really liked the animated bow. I think it would be fun to do more of this, with one story continuing directly where another story left off. Thanks again. (Although, I should add, I didn't like how Limit's story of Aku pummeling Kiri with Evard's Black Tentacles continued my story of Ebelin pummeling Zorander with Evard's Black Tentacles...let's do less of that). I'm not sure why my opponent didn't send tactics. I'm sure he would have done better, otherwise.
TaggIIV 05-04-04, 06:24 PM	anyone know where i can find the DCs for craft (alchemy)`ing various types of poisons?
kattattack22 05-04-04, 06:57 PM	posted by TaggIIV anyone know where i can find the DCs for craft (alchemy)`ing various types of poisons? you use craft(poison) to make poisons. craft(alchemy) is for the alchemical items like tanglefoot bags and alchemist's fire. The only place I have seen poison crafting DC's is in Song and Silence, but its not core. Unless they have added it to the DMG, but I don't have the 3.5 DMG yet.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-04-04, 07:02 PM	Kazeira was praticing the falchion, this time the pratice did nto kill of his frustation! Three loses! Two against human and one for mere hobgoblin! Kazeira throwed his sword angirly into a tree, it teared great chunk of wood from the tree while it cleaved in air. Kazeira sat down and watched the nigth sky. The stars pained his eyes, he does not even now understand what is wonderfull in nigth sky. For him is brigther darkness than underdark. Kazeira had no hopes for coming challenges, if the 3 league is this hard, how hard are the higher leagues? He thinks that he shall lose in eternity and he shall be laughing stock among gladiators. He then thinked that at elast he is not alone. There was another drow in same league, Akordia. Even tough he and she did were completely different in nature and Kazeira did not understand why she abadonned her heritage. But Kazeira was comforted by the tougth that he was not alone in here. "I wonder who she shall challenge? She was gone awhile, but she had now returned from her travels time being. Would she still remember my offer what I sended in the letter? A match whit her could show my skills against somebody who is egual in level whit me. If I would still lose, I would be hopeless loser." I challenge Akordia. If not challenge accepted, I take random foe into this week match and use default tactics.
Caterane 05-04-04, 07:07 PM	The Guild Registry is updated, once again. I would like to add a bit more purpose to the guilds, especially related to benefits and drawbacks. One drawback for being in a guild could be that you have to challenge someone if your guild gives you that mission. As for the benefits: what about team fights? If two guild members ever meet two other guild members of an enemy guild (must have declared war on it) then they may team up and fight 2 vs 2. This may not happen very often but if it happens then it would be a cool show. Then I thought about Prestige fights, which should get a special (roleplaying) bonus, perhaps a title or something. A Prestige Fight should be only possible if you`re member in a guild. Perhaps connect the above mentioned drawback with Prestige fight, which awards members with a title. Of course, in this case you have to set up a ranking system. But now I would like to hear YOUR suggestions and ideas about improving guilds! Cat
Limit 05-04-04, 07:19 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril (Although, I should add, I didn't like how Limit's story of Aku pummeling Kiri with Evard's Black Tentacles continued my story of Ebelin pummeling Zorander with Evard's Black Tentacles...let's do less of that). I havn't read stories in fights besides the ones I wrote or my character was in, so I'll try to do less of my own original ideas in the future :)
TaggIIV 05-04-04, 07:28 PM	Elg'cahl Drokk (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3326814#post3326814) made a new PC using my 3 credits - i retired/killed Krhoir as well
MysticMonk2005 05-04-04, 07:45 PM	@Cat: I like the idea of 2v2. It adds alittle more diversity to the Arena, and it gives support builds a chance to shine @Myr: I am terribly sory about the delay in the fight, I am getting to work right away.
kattattack22 05-04-04, 07:58 PM	Originally posted by Caterane As for the benefits: what about team fights? If two guild members ever meet two other guild members of an enemy guild (must have declared war on it) then they may team up and fight 2 vs 2. This may not happen very often but if it happens then it would be a cool show. Sounds like an excellent and fun idea. Players might need a little extra time to develop tatics to cooperate with each other. But now I would like to hear YOUR suggestions and ideas about improving guilds! I think guilds just need to get out there and roleplay. Arkin went on a recon mission and discovered a brutal killing that Zaphod alledgedly did. I think if people did something were they discoved something going on that they might attribute to another group it gives some flexibilty to the good characters that generally are reactionary in nature. Also, the evil groups could deny it and claim that it was somone else... Also, the evil guild could start plotting against the other guilds. IT doesn't necessarily have to do with fights or could help set up fights if the evil guilds kill a close friend and blame it on someone else or frame someone causing other good characters to turn on the framed person. I guess what I am getting at is that the guilds need to come up a plan of action and persue it. The assassians' guild could have a mysterious NPC that keeps taking out contracts on the druids, non-guild gladiators, or something. It could even be something friendly like Pard following around Jindl where the Order of the Bow sponsers an archery tournament or just holds a gala with the Oathguard where they eat, drink, and talk of their lives.
Kaigan 05-04-04, 08:01 PM	@Jindl: Sorry, Jindl, but i am unable to pitlord a fight this week. I would like to have both of my gladiators active though. So if you could take away one of my credits i would be grateful, Thanks
Arstimis 05-04-04, 08:03 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 Also, the evil groups could deny it and claim that it was somone else.... Or embrace it, and so start the battle....Zaphod's response soon
Limit 05-04-04, 08:06 PM	Originally posted by Caterane But now I would like to hear YOUR suggestions and ideas about improving guilds! I'd like to throw in my two cents and add that I'd be opposed to any idea that rewards guild members in any way other then RP ways. A title like, "Pelor's Choosen" is cool, but something like "+2 save vs fire" would not be, imho. We are the Core arena and something like that would draw us away from being core.
TaggIIV 05-04-04, 08:10 PM	^ I agree with the Voiceless. I would make a crack of how he talked, but then I realize that he's typing and not actually talking, so... anyways i agree the tack-on prestige title would be pretty cool.
Arstimis 05-04-04, 08:13 PM	I am opposed to giving game play bonuses to guilds...because there are some characters that just dont fit into guilds. A perfect example is Zaphod. it would be unfair to characters like himself if there were bonuses other than roleplay. Guilds are a really cool idea though
MysticMonk2005 05-04-04, 08:19 PM	Can you start mounted, and then run up to ur opponet? Wouldn't the pillars get in the way?
Arstimis 05-04-04, 08:36 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 Can you start mounted, and then run up to ur opponet? Wouldn't the pillars get in the way? You can start mounted and do a double move toward your opponent, getting out of the way of the pillars. You cant start mounted and have your horse run to him because of the pillars. running has to be a straight line. You can start unmounted, with your horse to the side. Quickmount as a free action if you pass the check, then have your horse run all the way there, out of the way of the pillars
Battousai2005 05-04-04, 08:42 PM	Ok, I lied. Kage will not be inactive this week. I still only want ONE fight, so I will cred burn this week.
MysticMonk2005 05-04-04, 08:53 PM	:censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: grounded..... i cant finish the fight... gota get off comp.... only make Drahk active, give me no fights. ill find a way to send his tactics. -.- this has been a bad week extreamly sorry to the people who didn't get their fight run.... >.<
Druid Roxors 05-04-04, 10:00 PM	Oh my god. As I had been hinting, I've been very busy this month and I still am. Since I had recieved no fights at all, I thought I had recieved no fights this week. I checked my mail and find to my surprise the tactics for Ixidor and Tori. I am terribly sorry about this guys. I've been pretty much aloof lately and lost in the pages of the tavern. Ill run this fight tonight and have it up before tomorrow, I hope Jindl can take long enough to make the pairings so that you can edit your characters. Im Very Sory guys, Ill take the negative credit anyways...
Arstimis 05-04-04, 10:05 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Oh my god. As I had been hinting, I've been very busy this month and I still am. Since I had recieved no fights at all, I thought I had recieved no fights this week. I checked my mail and find to my surprise the tactics for Ixidor and Tori. I am terribly sorry about this guys. I've been pretty much aloof lately and lost in the pages of the tavern. Ill run this fight tonight and have it up before tomorrow, I hope Jindl can take long enough to make the pairings so that you can edit your characters. Im Very Sory guys, Ill take the negative credit anyways... I think jindl said something about pairings being held back a day or something
Druid Roxors 05-04-04, 10:08 PM	Good, that will give me time to study for the exam I have tomorrow at 8 AM :| Im sorry guys, but Jindl should have asked. Although, Im happy I've been given a high level fight. Just, bad timing...
Battousai2005 05-04-04, 10:20 PM	@Druid: I feel your pain, man. I've got a math test, AP test, and I took the SATs. Overall, none too good at the moment. Just go with it. Don't worry overmuch. Busy life can only last so long.
Battousai2005 05-04-04, 10:26 PM	So anyway, Kaigan and I were talking. We, having no lives, were talking about COCO. (Correction: He has a life. I do not.) So anyway, a subject came up. He was sure that you could further enchant an item such as bracers of Dexterity further then they already were (ex. Making them from +2 to +4) Is this right? Second question is this. Lets assume you have an item ability that you regret now. Can you remove the enchantment? Exapmle: Pard (well, he may be able to buy it sometime in the future) buys a brilliant energy enchantment for his bow. However, he would rather get the extra damage offered by the flame, shock, frost, etc. Can he remove the Brilliant energy qualities and pay for the new ones? Thats all.
MysticMonk2005 05-04-04, 10:27 PM	I need an answer quick! I can run the fight on paper with my 3.0 books, and give it to Battosia, Arti, or Kaigan at school and they can post it. Any objections? Need responce fast! (dont have much time on comp)
barrel_master 05-04-04, 11:03 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 I need an answer quick! I can run the fight on paper with my 3.0 books, and give it to Battosia, Arti, or Kaigan at school and they can post it. Any objections? Need responce fast! (dont have much time on comp) Give it to someone else if you can. The rules should be 3.5 not 3.0. Otherwise you will be given a negative credit. Try to have it done imediately. In the future try to avoid grounding. :)
Battousai2005 05-04-04, 11:28 PM	I posted a humor thread for fun. Anyone wants to post is welcome to!
Ethendril 05-05-04, 12:44 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 So anyway, Kaigan and I were talking. We, having no lives, were talking about COCO. (Correction: He has a life. I do not.) So anyway, a subject came up. He was sure that you could further enchant an item such as bracers of Dexterity further then they already were (ex. Making them from +2 to +4) Is this right? Second question is this. Lets assume you have an item ability that you regret now. Can you remove the enchantment? Exapmle: Pard (well, he may be able to buy it sometime in the future) buys a brilliant energy enchantment for his bow. However, he would rather get the extra damage offered by the flame, shock, frost, etc. Can he remove the Brilliant energy qualities and pay for the new ones? Thats all. Yeah, Kaigan's right. This rule is in the DMG (don't have the exact page right now). You pay the difference in price between the +2 and +4, for example, and it's upgraded. You cannot remove an enchantment (at least not without powerful magic, and you certainly wouldn't get your money back;) ).
kattattack22 05-05-04, 01:28 AM	if you have craft wonderous item is your upgrade cost only 70% then like normal crafting rules? Also a friend of mine Sindorin has posted his first gladiator. Please check it over.
Hatzinger 05-05-04, 04:31 AM	why is heinrich no longer the weakest character?
Myrridin 05-05-04, 08:45 AM	Don't delay pairings again. Just go ahead and do them today, and repair Zephin with someone at his level. Just cancel the fight I guess. It sucks, but hey, I'd rather be on the old schedule.
Battousai2005 05-05-04, 10:27 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger why is heinrich no longer the weakest character? Unless I miss my mark, you are not the only grey elf any longer. Who knows? Maybe there is a pixie or some other tiny creature.
daemones 05-05-04, 10:29 AM	I've got Irwin updated, and I'd like one fight this week if possible. I'll be going out of town Friday, but I should be able to run the fight on my laptop either Saturday or Sunday.
Myrridin 05-05-04, 10:33 AM	I can still take multiple fights this week. If a higher level fight is assigned to me, that plus a level 2 fight would be nice. :)
Caterane 05-05-04, 10:54 AM	@all: The RED WIZARD POLL has been closed. The result is "Yes", we allow the Red Wizard prestige class including the Tattoo focus feat. Happy tattooing, Cat
Myrridin 05-05-04, 11:11 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @all: The RED WIZARD POLL has been closed. The result is "Yes", we allow the Red Wizard prestige class including the Tattoo focus feat. Happy tattooing, Cat And the mass of wizards starting over is huge. :D
Magagumo 05-05-04, 11:24 AM	@Druid While I can't speak for Cat, I understand the academic stresses... Done Junior Year Finals!!!! Ahem, anyways, yes, I will actually not be running any fights or characters this week, so the delay is not a huge bother for me. GL with your own academia, I'm heading home for a relaxing summer. @ Cat, a few notes for your minotaur on Errors page..
kedi 05-05-04, 11:34 AM	odd: Mete "Attila" Han, Kedi out for # PC's. Well, one active pc is too much? There are 4 glads including atilla at 5th league, why can’t I fight?
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-05-04, 12:14 PM	Originally posted by Limit I'd like to throw in my two cents and add that I'd be opposed to any idea that rewards guild members in any way other then RP ways. A title like, "Pelor's Choosen" is cool, but something like "+2 save vs fire" would not be, imho. We are the Core arena and something like that would draw us away from being core. Well, I agreed that. A rpg rewards would be nice and fair. But what about these ideas; 1) High level member whit leadership feat can "lend" his followers to members of the guild while they participate in figths vs opposing guild. 2) Whit small guild tax (5-10% of the winnings of the each member's match) the guild uses the money to buy potions, magic items and such wich are usable to all guild members (like noob 2lvl member who is in guild can get two cure ligth wound potions while he figths match vs guild enemy or from opposing guild) while they figth enemy of the guild. Guild could also sponsor peculiar champion(s) of their guild. Of course guild sponsors better and higher ranking members above smaller lvl members wich are constatly losing. Also there can be other benefits like; arcane member of the guild casting enlarge and then making it permament by permancy spell. Whit these ways we do not break core rules and so making belonging a guild a strongly essential (but it would not stop soloing tough, same things can be buyed/got by own money).
Jindl 05-05-04, 12:15 PM	Well, I have many comments on many things. Let me try and start: Originally posted by TaggIIV anyone know where i can find the DCs for craft (alchemy)`ing various types of poisons? Per CoCo rules, the DC is 10+the save DC of the poison. You can find this rule in the FAQ. Originally posted by Druid Roxors Good, that will give me time to study for the exam I have tomorrow at 8 AM :| Im sorry guys, but Jindl should have asked. Although, Im happy I've been given a high level fight. Just, bad timing... Druid, don't worry about the fight. Do good on your exam, and post the fight later. It will be no problem to delay the fight til this weekend. Originally posted by Hatzinger why is heinrich no longer the weakest character? Bilo is the weakest (ties go to the higher level character when dealing with the lowest scores). Re: MysticMonk's missing fight - Well, RL sometimes intrudes upon our schedules here, so we cope as we can. The missing fight will be rescheduled for the next round of pairings, with a different pitlord. @All - I'm going to be updating the roster and the pitlord list now... check it in about 3 hours. -Jindl
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-05-04, 12:21 PM	Well, I tell as notice that I will pitlord one figth (if there is short supply of pitlords) before I retire temporalilly (I have played whit tought to make human-natural-lycantrophy tiger-monk).
Pitlords 05-05-04, 03:07 PM	After reading this message, please take a moment to look at the list of active pitlords and the roster. You'll notice some changes. The first change is that the active pitlord list now includes a note in <>'s explaining how many fights that pitlord requests for that week. For example, Magagumo requests no fights this week, so there is a <zero> next to his name. Others may want just enough fights so that they do not lose any credits. This is represented by a <even> next to their name. For example, Jindl wants to keep the same number of credits so he has a <even> next to his name. Other pitlords may want only one fight, which is shown by the <one> next to thier name. And finally, some may want to gain as many credits as possible. This is shown by the <max> next to their name, as is the case for both Caterane and Myrridin. If you are a pitlord and you want the change the <>'s next to your name, the proper way to do this is to PM the Pitlord's account (I am now allowing PM's to be sent to this address). You may also post your request in the tavern, but I will not guarantee that I will see it. I do guarantee that all PM's will be handled and that you will get a confirmation message for each one. Please refrain from sending other PM's to the Pitlord's account, unless they deal with a change in the roster, or a change in the list of active pitlords. Finally, the roster has been updated. Please check it to make sure your characters are set to [OK]. If they are not, it is probably because you forgot to change the subject text of your character sheet to read "Ready for 5/5/04". Please make sure you do so, even if you had the character ready last week and they didn't get to fight (rolled out or something). Both of the missing fights from last week will be repeated this weekend. If your character is in one of these fights, do not edit your character. The match will be assigned to a pitlord this week to run. (I'll likely let Druid Roxors keep his assignment, and assign Aemon vs Zephin to someone else since MysticMonk is offline.) Last week, almost every level was uneven. This resulted in a lot of characters having to sit out. In an effort to prevent that from happening again this week, I have some suggestions: @Ethendril - As a suggestion, you may want to make Kiri ready so that Grym Mordib isn't alone this week. @MotherBast - Make sure you set Candy to be ready, and talk to your friend Boldrift Mattock and get him to update and set his character ready. @freemoody - Make sure you change the subject of Lillith's character sheet to say "Ready for 5/5/2004" so that she will be paired this week. @Rayne - If you will be doing some audits this week, then you could update Aiki Auk and set him ready, to make level 5 an even level. @barrel_master - since you will be pitlording a fight this week, how about you update and activate Octavian again, so that level 11 has 4 active pc's? @Alterlat - You do realize that Jagath has now lost 3 in a row and is eligible for a bump to 12th level? Please let me know if you want to be bumped. If you do, would you consider having Jagath sit out, so that he won't create an uneven 12th level? Well, that's about it for this long post. Go check the roster and the pitlord list now. Pairings will be tomorrow. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 05-05-04, 03:53 PM	@ Cat: Serious problem with your tactics, check E-Mail
Caterane 05-05-04, 04:10 PM	Originally mailed by Druidroxors: Now, About your tactics, You say that you must hover at all times. Nevertheless, Hovering is not possible unless you have perfect maneuverability OR the hover feat. DMG, p20, bottom: Good maneuverability, hover: yes
Jindl 05-05-04, 04:17 PM	Originally posted by Caterane DMG, p20, bottom: Good maneuverability, hover: yes Cat is correct. You can hover with good manueverability. It doesn't work like the Hover feat, so there is no dust clouds or anything. All it means is that you do not have a minimum forward speed, which means you can remain airborne while remaining stationary. So, a character with Good or Perfect manueverability or a character with the Hover feat may begin the fight hovering in place a foot or two above the ground (they may not be any higher than just a foot or two). -Jindl
Druid Roxors 05-05-04, 04:20 PM	Hmm. Then the Hover feat is wrong. It says: "Normal: Without this feat, a creature must keep moving while flying unless it has perfect maneuverability." How strange, nevertheless, ill start the fight right away. Edit: SRD not incomplete
Caterane 05-05-04, 07:54 PM	@all: Please listen! WizO_Shadow approached me and told me that it is not possible that multiple users share one account (the pitlord account is an exception) so all holders of neutral guild accounts MUST put their primary account name in the signature, and post a valid email address in the options!!! Please do this as soon as possible! The Organizations "The Oathguards" and "The Order of the Bow" have been disbanded! The "Black Knives" are now in red violation.
barrel_master 05-05-04, 08:25 PM	quote: @barrel_master - since you will be pitlording a fight this week, how about you update and activate Octavian again, so that level 11 has 4 active pc's? Unfotunately, I'll still be busy with things. I don't have time to set up another dudes tactics + mod + update him proper.
Druid Roxors 05-05-04, 09:36 PM	The fight against Archangel Ixidor and Toreilison Wevlun is done. It was 37 rounds of pure archery and melee prowess. In the end, the dice went berzerk. Ill finish edditing soon. Edit: Done
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 01:43 AM	The fight Archangel Ixidor Vs Toreilson Wevlun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3341469#post3341469) has been posted! Please tell me if there is any problem with the fight, even if its not very important. Im in search for self improvement!
^Rayne^ 05-06-04, 01:57 AM	I tried to spend time reading over the Violation's thread but I didn't get very far. I haven't had the necessary time to do the audits yet and I don't forsee getting far enough this week. As such I won't be able to make Aiki Auk active this week. I am going to stick with Vryk only this week because I just haven't had the time to do audits this week. If I get the chance to get some work done I will let you know but right now I have barely scratched the surface on audits and have not earned my credit for an additional combatant. I will try to take more time to read more but there is just so much to look over. I'm starting to think that instead of making sure all of the past audits were performed it would be best to start going through the Level 2 Gladiators now and getting them done now. A lot has happened since Tellish last auditted PC's and much of what he mentioned then is different now. I already ran into this as I checked over older audits to see if they had been fixed. Long story short I'll get these audits going as soon as I can. :) Rayne
kedi 05-06-04, 04:31 AM	PLS check my resrved slots, I Posted one sor/monk character, ready for next pairings.
Jindl 05-06-04, 08:47 AM	@Druid Roxors - I liked the story very much. And the fight looked well done also. I did find what I think was a simple math error, but its a really important math error (changes the outcome) and I posted about it on the Fights of the Week thread. Please check it out here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3343077#post3343077). -Jindl
kedi 05-06-04, 11:15 AM	why does met still have violation tag? I Edited the money...
Jindl 05-06-04, 11:26 AM	Originally posted by kedi why does met still have violation tag? I Edited the money... Check the violations thread again... @ALL - PAIRINGS in 8 hours (or so). -Jindl
MysticMonk2005 05-06-04, 11:57 AM	I got the fight ran last night. I'll post it now. It probly has some mistakes, sorry. I just have the school comps right now, so what i can do is limited.
MysticMonk2005 05-06-04, 12:13 PM	Aemon vs Zephin is up. fast fight, I probly wont be able to fix any mistakes, sorry.
Myrridin 05-06-04, 12:26 PM	Please see the Concerns about this week.
Jindl 05-06-04, 12:38 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 Aemon vs Zephin is up. fast fight, I probly wont be able to fix any mistakes, sorry. @Mystic - I appreciate you trying to follow through and post the fight. However, since Pairings are in just a few hours, I have already determined that the fight will be postponed until this weekend and reassigned to a new pitlord. As such, the fight you posted doesn't count. Both Aemon and Zephin will remain at the current level and will be reassigned new opponents this week. If you get the chance, please edit <delete> the fight you posted. Thanks. -Jindl
Aramil Dunskar 05-06-04, 12:46 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 Worst Way to die. Shoot all 60+ arrows you own, and be killed by someone with no range and 2 hp left. LOL, really sorry about that fight Mystic, but you'd be glad to know that Aramil is around no longer. ;)
Myrridin 05-06-04, 01:10 PM	Beldin: So, the question is, now that we've both seen the others tactics. Do we write new tactics, or keep the old ones? I'd like to know if it's possible to ride on a horse from one starting position, and end that close to the opponent's? If it is, well, that sucks. Every fighter will do that to every mage.
Jindl 05-06-04, 01:17 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Beldin: So, the question is, now that we've both seen the others tactics. Do we write new tactics, or keep the old ones? I'd like to know if it's possible to ride on a horse from one starting position, and end that close to the opponent's? If it is, well, that sucks. Every fighter will do that to every mage. You'll likely want to write new tactics, especially since your opponent will be determined randomly from all of the gladiators at your level. So there is only a small chance that Aemon will face Zephin this week. The only way to do this has been described well by Battousai. The technique is to start on foot with you horse next to you, then fast mount and have the horse run in a straight line to end next to your opponent. This prevents any columns, etc, from hindering your horses run action. When Mystic ran the fight, he didn't have the map of the Arena, and so he used a field with no obstacles. This is the main reason to ignore the fight and re-insert the two characters back into pairings. -Jindl
Arstimis 05-06-04, 01:22 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin I'd like to know if it's possible to ride on a horse from one starting position, and end that close to the opponent's? If it is, well, that sucks. Every fighter will do that to every mage. to my knowledge, yes it is possible. It requires that the rider starts un mounted with his horse to the side. The rider must pass a quick mount check in order to mount as a free action. From there, with his full actions left he can have the horse run the 200 feet to stop beside the wizard. If the wizard is smart he should have a good set of actions to counter this. 5 ft step and fly 5 ft step and color spray 5 ft step and another good spell. Its not too much of a killer for wizards. Oh, and this week only zaphod is fighting. Next week kiowen will come back with his cohort, which I am working on now. After that my annoyingly cool paladin will arrive
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 01:25 PM	OMG PAGE 69! :eek: @ Jindl: I would like to un a fight this week, But, I request for early tactics. Next week ill be quite busy and I would like to finish up before the weekend. Also, corinthus will be active.
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 01:29 PM	Nevermind
Myrridin 05-06-04, 01:37 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis to my knowledge, yes it is possible. It requires that the rider starts un mounted with his horse to the side. The rider must pass a quick mount check in order to mount as a free action. From there, with his full actions left he can have the horse run the 200 feet to stop beside the wizard. If the wizard is smart he should have a good set of actions to counter this. 5 ft step and fly 5 ft step and color spray 5 ft step and another good spell. Its not too much of a killer for wizards. Ahhh, so he can't fast mount, have the horse run next to the opponent, and then activate something all on the same round? Excellent. Yeah, I'll need to look into getting me some way to prevent that. 5' step and fly doesn't do me any good, because you can't move after that. You'd have to cast defensively, fly upwards and hope they didn't smack you as you went out of range. I guess cast Invis defensively, and then move away's a pretty decent option.
Arstimis 05-06-04, 01:53 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Ahhh, so he can't fast mount, have the horse run next to the opponent, and then activate something all on the same round? Excellent. Yeah, I'll need to look into getting me some way to prevent that. 5' step and fly doesn't do me any good, because you can't move after that. You'd have to cast defensively, fly upwards and hope they didn't smack you as you went out of range. I guess cast Invis defensively, and then move away's a pretty decent option. I'm pretty sure about that.... Oh ya...you couldn't move after casting fly. Casting invis definsivly and moving back would be the best bet. Or an offensive spell like color spray if your opponent oesnt have too many hd. I'm sure there are much better offensive spells that woul put the wiz ahead.
Myrridin 05-06-04, 01:53 PM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ I tried to spend time reading over the Violation's thread but I didn't get very far. I haven't had the necessary time to do the audits yet and I don't forsee getting far enough this week. As such I won't be able to make Aiki Auk active this week. I am going to stick with Vryk only this week because I just haven't had the time to do audits this week. If I get the chance to get some work done I will let you know but right now I have barely scratched the surface on audits and have not earned my credit for an additional combatant. I will try to take more time to read more but there is just so much to look over. I'm starting to think that instead of making sure all of the past audits were performed it would be best to start going through the Level 2 Gladiators now and getting them done now. A lot has happened since Tellish last auditted PC's and much of what he mentioned then is different now. I already ran into this as I checked over older audits to see if they had been fixed. Long story short I'll get these audits going as soon as I can. :) Rayne Rayne: You want some help? I have time, and can start going through the ranks and doing audits as well.
kattattack22 05-06-04, 02:30 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors OMG PAGE 69! :eek: Not all that surprising since the old discussion thread was 206 pages and that was for everything besides fights, gladiators and RP. Just think if we still did that now.
^Rayne^ 05-06-04, 02:30 PM	Myrridin as long as it is cool with the Jindle and Caterane it is more than fine with me. I see you already got the 2nd level PC's done. If you are going to help might as well go through the 3rd level ones. I'll try to begin examining the fourth tier today if I have time after work.
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 03:03 PM	@ kattattack22: its not the ammount.. Its the number!! NM Too childish.. Hehhe
Jindl 05-06-04, 04:21 PM	I will update the roster and do pairings in about 4 hours... -Jindl
Caterane 05-06-04, 05:17 PM	@all: Now that the (gladiator's) week is nearing its end I want to add my 2 cents to the last few days. In this week's pairings we had several very good stories - most notably from Battousai, Ethendril, and just recently Druid Roxor (who wrote a damn cool story despite his lack of time) - and I had the fortune that 1 of my characters was involved in there. I want to thank you for your time and effort in writing these stories, and I also want to tell you that those works won`t be forgotten: From now on, every guild should link their fights in a special post called roleplay or history of the guild. These links show fights from members of the guild which have a very good story (linking a plain arena dome fight is unnecessary). That way, you add flavor to your guild and reward those who invested time in writing more than just statistics and rolls. As always, the Celestial Forces (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=227308) are a good example on how to do it. I want to encourage storywriting. I know that many of you don`t have enough time but if you have a good idea for a story then it would be a pity indeed if this story stays slumbering anywhere in the back of your mind until it is forgotten. Believe me when I say: that`s worth the effort! Cat
kattattack22 05-06-04, 05:29 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ kattattack22: its not the ammount.. Its the number!! NM Too childish.. Hehhe lol, I get you now.
Pitlords 05-06-04, 09:44 PM	Pairings are under way. No more editing of character sheets.
Vilawyn 05-06-04, 10:28 PM	um i just noticed tanya has a red violation, may i ask for what? i didnt see a post in the character violation thread...
Pitlords 05-06-04, 11:05 PM	Pairings are done. No more editing of characters. 1. Tactics due by Saturday. 2. Pitlords may begin running fights with tactics on Friday. 3. Pitlords may begin running fights with default tactics on Sunday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. In order to get back on schedule, all fights will be due on Monday. However, since pairings are late this week, do not use the default tactics until Sunday. Good luck! -Jindl
Jindl 05-06-04, 11:07 PM	Originally posted by Vilawyn um i just noticed tanya has a red violation, may i ask for what? i didnt see a post in the character violation thread... I was just posting it now. The violation is obvious. You wrote "Ready for 5/5/04", yet you never updated your character after winning your fight. Tanya is still listed as a 2nd level half elf bard, even though she should be 3rd level. And it's more than just her level, she still has her starting hps, etc, etc. Since it was an odd level, and the character had not been updated, she will sit out. However, I am giving her a didn't fight credit, so get her fixed and she'll be guaranteed a match next week. -Jindl
Vilawyn 05-06-04, 11:08 PM	Originally posted by Jindl I was just posting it now. The violation is obvious. You wrote "Ready for 5/5/04", yet you never updated your character after winning your fight. Tanya is still listed as a 2nd level half elf bard, even though she should be 3rd level. And it's more than just her level, she still has her starting hps, etc, etc. Since it was an odd level, and the character had not been updated, she will sit out. However, I am giving her a didn't fight credit, so get her fixed and she'll be guaranteed a match next week. -Jindl oh.. that was one error, i updated the char, just not the first line.. if you look at the rest of the sheet you can see that it is a level 3 character.. :edit: er ok 2 errors, with the hp ;) *goes to fix* anyways since she is an odd number in the pairings, its all good
Ethendril 05-06-04, 11:41 PM	@Motherbast and Kaigan: I'm running your Dra'kel Mourning vs Enilias Surion fight. I would very much appreciate your tactics as early as possible so I can work on the fight Friday. Weekends are bad for me. Thanks. -Ethendril
Battousai2005 05-07-04, 12:31 AM	Tactics recieved for Svenn. Waiting on Metai. Tactics sent for Kage (great, another caster) and Armanithil (Yay! LA +2). Akordia's tactics will be sent soon
Druid Roxors 05-07-04, 12:43 AM	Thanks Cat and everyone else, Im glad you liked my last story. In other news... - I will be running the fight Arkin Jozil Vs Zaphod. - I would like to request from the combatants Early Tactics, By tomorrow afternoon Since I have a busy week ahead. Thanks in advance.
kattattack22 05-07-04, 12:51 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Thanks Cat and everyone else, Im glad you liked my last story. In other news... - I will be running the fight Arkin Jozil Vs Zaphod. - I would like to request from the combatants Early Tactics, By tomorrow afternoon Since I have a busy week ahead. Thanks in advance. Tatics Sent! 5/6/04 11:51 PM US Central Time via email.
Druid Roxors 05-07-04, 01:05 AM	@ kattattack22: Tactics Recieved
daemones 05-07-04, 01:09 AM	@Battousai2005: Tactics received - had a question and replied by email.
^Rayne^ 05-07-04, 02:09 AM	Vryk's tactics sent to barrel_master via PM. I look forward to the fight. I don't recall having you Pitlord one of my fights. This should be fun! Also note that Attila and Vryk fought their last respective battles against one another so this is a rematch! Please make sure the growing rivalry is noted. ;) Thanks! Rayne
Arstimis 05-07-04, 02:49 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Thanks Cat and everyone else, Im glad you liked my last story. In other news... - I will be running the fight Arkin Jozil Vs Zaphod. - I would like to request from the combatants Early Tactics, By tomorrow afternoon Since I have a busy week ahead. Thanks in advance. Im sorry, i've been busy tonight, and just now saw this message, it is late, and i need to go to bed for school tomorrow. I will try to work on my tactics during school, and send them to you as soon as i get out. About 15 hours from the time i made this post
TaggIIV 05-07-04, 08:42 AM	@daemones: tactics for erg'cahl sent @beldin: tactics for delayar recieved
Beldin 05-07-04, 08:44 AM	@TaggIIV: tactics for delayar send via e-mail @Limit: tactics for aemon send
Myrridin 05-07-04, 09:03 AM	Tactics for Zephin sent. Tactics for Shiaan received.
daemones 05-07-04, 10:15 AM	Tactics sent for both of my fights, tactics recieved from Battousai and TaggIIV. I'm on my way out the door for a 3-state drive, so will run the fight tomorrow night or Sunday.
MysticMonk2005 05-07-04, 12:15 PM	Drahk's tactics sent via PM to tagg. Looks like beldin has his chance of revenge for my not running the fight
Ethendril 05-07-04, 12:22 PM	@Beldin: Tactics sent for Vaarkalikax via email. @Mercy: Tactics sent for Kiri, also by email.
Limit 05-07-04, 12:33 PM	Status of Incoming Tactics Aemon, Beldin Received Jo'Li, Mercy Received Candessa Rain, MotherBast Received Ebelin Barnahdy, Caterane Received Status of Outgoing Tactics The Voiceless Sent
Caterane 05-07-04, 01:00 PM	Don`t make me nervous Limit; just came home. But because it`s you I`ll forfeit my hard-earned meal and get to the tactics :P Kidding.
Jindl 05-07-04, 01:16 PM	Tactics recieved for Johan (cellardweller). Tactics sent for Rhoar. Waiting on tactics for the Harvester (2nd). I will send Aku's tactics later tonight. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 05-07-04, 02:09 PM	Sent tactics for Donkey via PM. So far haven't recieved any tactics. Edit: an addendum has been sent as well.
Myrridin 05-07-04, 02:09 PM	Tactics received for Rhoar.
kedi 05-07-04, 02:38 PM	all tactics sent.
Myrridin 05-07-04, 03:19 PM	Tactics received from Felis the Jordain The Rhoar vs Shiaan fight is up. Short and bloody, just like expected. Rhoar vs Bloodmaiden Shiaan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3355862#post3355862) Please let me know if I messed up too terribly. I tried to follow tactics the best I could.
Myrridin 05-07-04, 03:57 PM	My second fight is up now. Sindorin vs Felis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3356270#post3356270)
TaggIIV 05-07-04, 04:15 PM	@mysticmonk: tactics for drahk recieved
kedi 05-07-04, 04:42 PM	Posted the fight.
barrel_master 05-07-04, 04:57 PM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ Vryk's tactics sent to barrel_master via PM. I look forward to the fight. I don't recall having you Pitlord one of my fights. This should be fun! Also note that Attila and Vryk fought their last respective battles against one another so this is a rematch! Please make sure the growing rivalry is noted. ;) Thanks! Rayne I haven't modded in quite a while. You may not recall but my fights generaly weren't very funny or cheerfull. Usually I tried to make them very serious and downcast. Sorry mate :)
Arstimis 05-07-04, 06:12 PM	Zaphod's tactics have been sent Both tactics have been recieved
Mercy 05-07-04, 06:23 PM	@Limit - Tactics for Jo'Li sent vis email. @Ethendril and KerlanRayne tactics received
MotherBast 05-07-04, 06:24 PM	Tacts for Dra'kel sent to Eth. Tacts for Candy sent to Limit.
Druid Roxors 05-07-04, 06:24 PM	@ Arstimis: Tactics have NOT been recieved! Neither by Email or PM
Arstimis 05-07-04, 06:42 PM	They were sent to your email...sorry if you didnt get them. i will send them via PM right now
Caterane 05-07-04, 06:53 PM	Tactics for Ebelin sent to Limit. Tactics received for the Voiceless and Peter, and for Kazzgaroth and Irwin via PM though I would prefer to have them by email.
Druid Roxors 05-07-04, 07:03 PM	@ Arstimis: Tactics have been recieved by PM
Druid Roxors 05-07-04, 07:21 PM	@ Arstimis: Tactics clarification required by PM
Arstimis 05-07-04, 07:56 PM	@ Druid Roxorz: Clarification sent
Battousai2005 05-07-04, 08:14 PM	Question: Ok, if a cleric has a spell that is part of his domain list that opposes his alignment (ex. contagion on the destruction domain for a good cleric), can the cleric still cast the spell? Ordinarily, this would be out of the question, but if it is part of the domain, does that change anything? By the way, if anyone gets annoyed or thinks I should know all the stuff I ask already, I apologize.
freemoody 05-07-04, 08:31 PM	@ Smergel: Tactice for Lillith sent via E-mail and PM. Tyfling Fire Resistance (5) sucks. :mad:
kedi 05-07-04, 08:39 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Question: Ok, if a cleric has a spell that is part of his domain list that opposes his alignment (ex. contagion on the destruction domain for a good cleric), can the cleric still cast the spell? Ordinarily, this would be out of the question, but if it is part of the domain, does that change anything? By the way, if anyone gets annoyed or thinks I should know all the stuff I ask already, I apologize. Yes, he can cast the spell.
Kaigan 05-07-04, 10:18 PM	@ Battousai: Tactics sent for Matei. @Ethendril: Tactics sent for Enilias.
Battousai2005 05-07-04, 11:03 PM	Tactics Recieved. Fight should be up ASAP.
Jindl 05-07-04, 11:54 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Question: Ok, if a cleric has a spell that is part of his domain list that opposes his alignment (ex. contagion on the destruction domain for a good cleric), can the cleric still cast the spell? Ordinarily, this would be out of the question, but if it is part of the domain, does that change anything? By the way, if anyone gets annoyed or thinks I should know all the stuff I ask already, I apologize. Well, I know Kedi posted his opinion, but nowhere in the rules does it suggest that an exception is made regarding the alignment rules. The rules do state clearly that a good aligned cleric cannot cast a spell with the evil descriptor. There is no differentation between domain spells and non-domain spells. The rules support the conclusion that a good cleric cannot cast contagion, even if it is part of his domain. The cleric will just have to memorize a different domain spell in that spell slot (either a lower level domain spell or a domain spell from his other domain). -Jindl
kedi 05-08-04, 12:12 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Well, I know Kedi posted his opinion, but nowhere in the rules does it suggest that an exception is made regarding the alignment rules. The rules do state clearly that a good aligned cleric cannot cast a spell with the evil descriptor. There is no differentation between domain spells and non-domain spells. The rules support the conclusion that a good cleric cannot cast contagion, even if it is part of his domain. The cleric will just have to memorize a different domain spell in that spell slot (either a lower level domain spell or a domain spell from his other domain). -Jindl lemme get this straight: A CG cleric can cast spontaneous inflict spell if his deity is CE, and can rebuke undead, but can't cast spells with evil description? :uh-huh:
Limit 05-08-04, 12:43 AM	Originally posted by kedi lemme get this straight: A CG cleric can cast spontaneous inflict spell if his deity is CE, and can rebuke undead, but can't cast spells with evil description? :uh-huh: No, because a good cleric cannot spontaneously cast inflict spells. An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric of an evil deity), can’t convert prepared spells to cure spells but can convert them to inflict spells (an inflict spell is one with “inflict” in its name). No mention of good clerics, regardless of their deity. So good clerics can only spontaneously cast cure spells.
kattattack22 05-08-04, 02:23 AM	Plus a cleric's alignment can only be one step away from their diety's alignment so if your deity is CE then your cleric would have to be NE, CE, or CN.
kedi 05-08-04, 02:51 AM	I had a CE cleric pc here, and she casted spontaneous cure spells and turned undead for her deity was CN. And even the elder mods agreed that if the deity is neutral on evil-good axis, you can cast either cure or inflict, depended on your choice
Caterane 05-08-04, 03:40 AM	Have I mentioned that the city is now officially named GLADIUS? Second to fourth rank goes to Mesombra, Kim'kaleist, Ebou Dar, and Shadar Logroth. Now we can either use these names for Gladius in different languages (I like LL's suggestion here) or we can say these are neighboring cities. I would prefer the latter because in this case the names would be used more often.
LLMadCow 05-08-04, 07:57 AM	Do I get a prize, since everyone picked Gladius? Or is my prize the pride of knowning that I picked the name for the city? @Cat - I must ask - why did we never see a name submission from you? And why did you abstain from the voting for the official name? I am very curious...
Caterane 05-08-04, 08:14 AM	Actually I proposed Kim'kaleist to fill up the poll but didn`t vote it as I had no single favorite nor a special opinion on which name is best. I would`ve voted on the city-5 poll though but don`t ask me which one *shrugs* PS: Meckesheim is my birth town :P If that would`ve won I would`ve rolled on the floor laughing.
Jindl 05-08-04, 08:31 AM	Tactics received for the Harvester (2nd). @Cat - Tactics for Aku will be sent later today/tonight. Sorry for the delay. I'm spending all day moving all of my girlfriend's stuff into her new apartment... <flexes muscles> -Jindl
Caterane 05-08-04, 09:33 AM	Hey Jindl, take your time. I won`t be able to run it before monday anyway. Have to prepare my campaign for tomorow when we play all day. Btw, it`s good to live alone again, eh? :D
Beldin 05-08-04, 10:16 AM	@ Ethendril: Vaarkalikax tactics received! @ Anouilh Lyn: Tassadar Amakiir tactics received! fight on sunday
Limit 05-08-04, 11:07 AM	Originally posted by kedi I had a CE cleric pc here, and she casted spontaneous cure spells and turned undead for her deity was CN. And even the elder mods agreed that if the deity is neutral on evil-good axis, you can cast either cure or inflict, depended on your choice Interesting. Could you, or one of the elder mods who agreed with you, show us all in the rules where this is supported so that we have clarification for future fights with clerics? If it is a houserule for CoCo, perhaps we should add it to the FAQ so that everyone knows it. Here is the whole section from the SRD which clearly defines that an evil cleric's only option is inflict spells. The only clerics that are allowed to choose are Neutral (e/g axis) clerics with a Neutral (e/g axis) deity. Spontaneous Casting: A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can "lose" any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with "cure" in its name). An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric of an evil deity), can't convert prepared spells to cure spells but can convert them to inflict spells (an inflict spell is one with "inflict" in its name). A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure spells or inflict spells (player's choice). Once the player makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice also determines whether the cleric turns or commands undead (see below).
Jindl 05-08-04, 11:33 AM	<raises hand> Yeah, um, that would be me. Oops. Limit is correct, and Kedi's character Golratha should not have been able to spontaneously cure / channel positive energy. Thanks for setting us straight, Limit. -Jindl
^Rayne^ 05-08-04, 11:34 AM	I believe kedi's old PC broke some rules and it got missed by the Pitlords of old. However the SRD rule you just posted clearly defines what is allowed and what isn't Kedi's old PC was a Violation and would have been added to the Violation thread if it was still around.
Market_Share 05-08-04, 12:10 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Have I mentioned that the city is now officially named GLADIUS? Although that may be the Capital City where the MAIN arena is, in my own little world all my battles take place in Spikesville. lol We chit-chat in the "Tavern that Spike Built", and and roam the open plains of Spike-a-roony. :angel: SPIKE! (a legend in my own mind)
Caterane 05-08-04, 01:32 PM	Drow vs Drow! Akordia vs Kazeira (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3363397#post3363397) is up!
freemoody 05-08-04, 02:56 PM	@ Smergel: If you haven't already written up the fight, then I've sent an update to Lillith's tactics via PM.
Mercy 05-08-04, 03:53 PM	Grym vs. Kiri posted.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-08-04, 04:23 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Drow vs Drow! Akordia vs Kazeira (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3363397#post3363397) is up! Yes! Finaly a first victory! Even tough I did not included into my char's fluff that Akordia is my cousin, but I should do it now if Akordia agreeds ;). You forgot to mention the "special" figth's aftermath (even tough I am runned out from potions and they could not help really dead Akordia, but that does not prevent me to share the sum of the gold what I get). So, Shortly said Akordia get's 1,400 gold from my victory reward, and I put that as past expense (I really MEAN this).
Caterane 05-08-04, 04:49 PM	@Kazzaroth: You cannot do this! It is forbidden to give cash to other characters! If we would allow this what keeps one from creating a second account whose characters frequently donate money to their alternating accounts? So keep the money, accept the victory - hard as it may be - and buy equipment to improve your attack bonus. Both Akordia and Kazeira fought for 27 rounds and only hit three or four times, all of them being critical threats. Compare this with Jindl`s Rhoar and you get my point! Edit: By the way, why the hell are you granting her money??? Why did you want to use your potions to heal her??? You are EVIL!? :confused: And a drow at that!? http://www.1a-network.de/grafik/guestbook/smilies/crazyeyes.gif
Ethendril 05-08-04, 04:58 PM	@Mercy: Nice job on the Grym/Kiri fight. I thought your story at the start was very funny. I like when there's a good reason for characters to fight outside the arena. Again, nice job. -Ethendril
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-08-04, 05:04 PM	Ah, there is that point also :rolleyes: . Well, because stoping the threat of multiple accounts I do not then give the money. Do you remember the short desriction what I sended from Kazeira? Remember the "dark knigth" part...... Also who knows, maybe there is some spark of good/honor in evil drow's heart (remember Artemis Enteri). Also if you still wonder why I am was giving gold to Akorida, I thinked to give small assistance so that Akordia would soon rise in league so that we could have re-match ;).
Caterane 05-08-04, 05:08 PM	Artemis Entreri would`ve put a dagger between her ribs as soon as she had turned around.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-08-04, 05:27 PM	Well that is true, but what about the drow mercenary chief (does not remember the name) but he is examply evil, but he resurected Drizzt as "service to old friend" (a.c.a Zaknafein). Also Elaith Craulnober is bastard evil guy, but he cares deeply his daugther and thanks to that his "dormant" moonblade become "active" again (but this time he refused the honor to wield it and passes it onto his daugther). Yes, I know Elaith is moon elf, but here is one example more that being evil is not neccesarily be black&white case. Also if you want ease your mind, then think my char's strangely good acts as possibillity that Kazeira could become a good person (whit slim chance that is).
Caterane 05-08-04, 05:37 PM	Well, in Elaith`s case his daughter is the sole exception to his wickedness, but your right with Jarlaxle. I even wonder if they didn`t change his alignment after his recent deeds; the last part of "The Crystal Shard" and the sequel in "Return of the Archwizards - Anthology" comes to mind. On the other hand I don´t think Jarlaxle would hesitate to kill someone if his career is at stake. And to Elaith`s defense one must admit that it isn`t always easy being in Danilo Thann`s company :D
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-08-04, 05:52 PM	Well, we all love/hate Danilo :D. I personally love his attitude, but if I would face him, I would also lose my nerve in some point. In my opinion Jarlaxle (Darn that I did not remember his name!) is probaly LE and in somewhere it is mentioned that he is LE. The LE keeps his promises, to that sounds like Jarlaxle, but he also breaks the deals (sometimes), so my best quess he is true neutral or very strange NE (that would exlplain how pre-asumely Zaknafein and him got along).
barrel_master 05-08-04, 09:23 PM	I've been thinking about creating my own organization... one that doesn't really take things all that seriously and really just likes to goof around and make fun of other characters within the orgaization and just have fun. Would I get approval for this organization and would anyone want to join this organization?
barrel_master 05-08-04, 11:27 PM	fight ('http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3367354#post3367354') As always, if there are any errors please post. Unlike the other mods, I'm less generous when it comes to re-running fights.
MotherBast 05-09-04, 08:40 AM	Barrel, that proposed guild of yours sounds like it would be right up the alley of any Gnomes or Bards, or Illusionests. I think, if it were built correctly, it could gain intrest. You have Candy's intrest at the moment.
Aramil Dunskar 05-09-04, 09:44 AM	@ Pitlord, can you please change the number of times I dm a duel so that I will get 1 credit every week. Thank you. -AD
Battousai2005 05-09-04, 12:58 PM	Heh. Well, Kazz and Cat certainly seem to be having fun. @Kazz: Cousins. Hmm. Sounds like fun. She can try to save him through the arena. Your first win? Yah. Too bad drow casters get no breaks. @Cat: Nice story, as always. @All: Fight between Matei and Sven is done but not up yet.
barrel_master 05-09-04, 01:14 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master fight ('http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3367354#post3367354') As always, if there are any errors please post. Unlike the other mods, I'm less generous when it comes to re-running fights. I'm quite annoyed by serval mistakes I made which were quite obvious. I just realized it within 10 minutes of waking up this morning.... I'm going to redo some of this...
Battousai2005 05-09-04, 01:23 PM	Matei vs. Sven (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=609) is up. Scan for errors, as usual.
barrel_master 05-09-04, 02:16 PM	fight ('http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3367354#post3367354') Fight has been redoned... but the outcome was the same, just added the story, re-did a spell range and corrected the fact that they actually used stuff. YOU USED STUFF MAN! Boo tax cuts for rich people!
Market_Share 05-09-04, 02:38 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Matei vs. Sven (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=609) is up. Scan for errors, as usual. Hey Bat: Ok, an error i spotted, of course in favor of Matei and since i'm biased with the outcome i won't ask for any corrections. :twitch: lol First off, my mount can double move and i can cast in the same round. All this means is i kill him a round sooner, no biggy. Number two is he can't ready to disrupt casting AND if i drink a potion. Only one condition is allowable. Hmm, ok so i guess that's two boo-boo's. But hey, very minor ones. Extremely minor. I was going to re-email you about my CDG not suffering any AoO from the mount because it's a reach weapon and i'm glad to see you did that properly. I'm just pointing out that small stuff for futures sake where it may have an impact on a fight, otherwise great fight man. And you asked what's with the spike thing? uhm...dunno. I have red hair, i'm about 6'1, and friends call me mike the spike. So when i was convinced to come on board here i thougth spike would be a cool 'nick for me. SPIKE!
kattattack22 05-09-04, 03:02 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master Boo tax cuts for rich people! but, but, but rich people pay most of the taxes especially in the US with the graduated income tax. Any tax cut there will be much more for rich people...
Myrridin 05-09-04, 03:54 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 but, but, but rich people pay most of the taxes especially in the US with the graduated income tax. Any tax cut there will be much more for rich people... When did this turn into a politics board? I find the above very suspect. The graduated tax tops out at about 45% tax rate for those who make, I believe, 200k a year and more.
Jindl 05-09-04, 04:04 PM	Bah, I'm in favor of replacing the income tax with a flat tax on consumption. But enough politics for now. @Cat - Long awaited Tactics for Aku have been emailed. Please confirm reciept and read over them now, in case you have any questions (Jindl is trying a few new strategies...) Also, beginning work on Johan vs the Harvester (2nd). -Jindl
kattattack22 05-09-04, 04:07 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin When did this turn into a politics board? I find the above very suspect. The graduated tax tops out at about 45% tax rate for those who make, I believe, 200k a year and more. sorry, I have been studying Macroeconomics way too much. Also, they probably have that cap so people will have less incentive to cheat the government and hide how much they make or have. :) Edit: I can think of some problems with taxing consumption, but best not get into that.
Battousai2005 05-09-04, 04:45 PM	I'd like the max number of fights I can get this week. I was bored this weekend and now that track/AP tests/SAT is over, I think its time to earn some creds! Speaking of Creds, the current Pitlord should note that I lost 3 because of Armanithil. He has a LA+1. Anyway, don't say I'm not a fair person.
Kaigan 05-09-04, 04:48 PM	A question for the board: Do cohorts gained with the leadership feat level up when you win? If not, then how do they level up?
Beldin 05-09-04, 04:50 PM	The Lichking vs Tassadar Amakiir is finished (ecl 3)
kattattack22 05-09-04, 04:50 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 I'd like the max number of fights I can get this week. I was bored this weekend and now that track/AP tests/SAT is over, I think its time to earn some creds! Speaking of Creds, the current Pitlord should note that I lost 3 because of Armanithil. He has a LA+1. Anyway, don't say I'm not a fair person. Anyone can make a LA +1 person as long as they have no racial HD with it (like Teifling and Aasiamar). There is no need to spend credits.
Boldrift-Mattock 05-09-04, 04:51 PM	They level as you level, so they are always the max level you can attain with your leadership score. Usually thats 2 HD behind you, at higher levels it drops to 3.
Jindl 05-09-04, 04:55 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 Anyone can make a LA +1 person as long as they have no racial HD with it (like Teifling and Aasiamar). There is no need to spend credits. Armanithil is a githzerai, which is LA +2. His starting ECL was 3, which cost 3 credits. I'll make the adjustment tommorow (if Cat hasn't already done it). -Jindl
LLMadCow 05-09-04, 05:28 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan A question for the board: Do cohorts gained with the leadership feat level up when you win? If not, then how do they level up? Cohorts do not auomatically level up when the PC does, they have their own scale/rate that is based on the leadership score of the PC. See page 106 of the DMG.
Ethendril 05-09-04, 05:56 PM	@Beldin: I really liked the story you wrote, especially bringing in backstory from other fights. Very well done, and I was nervous throughout. Keep up the good work. -Ethendril
Caterane 05-09-04, 06:19 PM	@Jindl: Confirmed @all: Another poll has been closed: Lichs are now available without the Gold requirement. We still have to debate wether we drop the level prerequisite or not, and wether we`ll use template classes or not. But this is another poll... And please, do NOT post on the new Core Coliseum Senate thread!! Yes Arty, even you. News coming soon.
Arstimis 05-09-04, 07:02 PM	Originally posted by Caterane And please, do NOT post on the new Core Coliseum Senate thread!! Yes Arty, even you. I would never :P
Caterane 05-09-04, 07:36 PM	The Black Knives Guild has been disbanded! Originally posted by Arstimis I would never :P DM: Cat, roll a sense motive check! Cat: 20! Woohoo! DM: You should better close the Senate Cat: Uhm, ok *runs off*
Battousai2005 05-09-04, 07:56 PM	Originally posted by Caterane The Black Knives Guild has been disbanded! DM: Cat, roll a sense motive check! Cat: 20! Woohoo! DM: You should better close the Senate Cat: Uhm, ok *runs off* Should better? Oooooooookkkkkkkkkaaaaaayyyyyyy... Anyway, the real reason for this post is another question. The ruling is that you cannot leave the arena for more than 10 rounds before being DQed. However, what would occur if both gladiators left the arena? Is it possible to conduct battle on another plane?
Jindl 05-09-04, 08:22 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Anyway, the real reason for this post is another question. The ruling is that you cannot leave the arena for more than 10 rounds before being DQed. However, what would occur if both gladiators left the arena? Is it possible to conduct battle on another plane? Are you familiar with professional wrestling? It has a 10 count rule if you leave the ring. You must reenter the ring before the ref gets to 10 or you are disqualified. Yet, both wrestlers often fight outside the ring for short periods of time, climbing back in before the count of 10. Got it? -Jindl
Battousai2005 05-09-04, 08:25 PM	And assuming both are outside the arena at the time the 10 round count is over? What occurs then? @Jindl: I don't watch Professional wrestling, actually. Never liked it too much. Prefer watching hyped up action movies with no plot.
Caterane 05-09-04, 08:57 PM	Can anyone tell me what to do when both ready actions? Who goes first, thus gets his spell interrupted?
daemones 05-09-04, 09:13 PM	@Cat: The one with the lower initiative?
barrel_master 05-09-04, 09:39 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Can anyone tell me what to do when both ready actions? Who goes first, thus gets his spell interrupted? In the past I've seen mods do a roll off... heads one guy goes tails the other guy goes... I don't think there are rules for things like this.
Sindorin 05-09-04, 10:19 PM	Does anyone know if a wizard with school specialization's spellbook would have his prohibited schools' cantrips scribed? I'm trying to figure out whether or not the spellbook would end up with meaningless pages. Thanks.
Battousai2005 05-09-04, 10:25 PM	Originally posted by Sindorin Does anyone know if a wizard with school specialization's spellbook would have his prohibited schools' cantrips scribed? I'm trying to figure out whether or not the spellbook would end up with meaningless pages. Thanks. Prohibited schools are absolute. I believe that you can choose to erase spells if you so desire.
Sindorin 05-09-04, 10:27 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Prohibited schools are absolute. I believe that you can choose to erase spells if you so desire. How do you go about erasing spells? Does it cost anything, i.e. experience, gold?
Tellish_of_Ket 05-09-04, 10:46 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Can anyone tell me what to do when both ready actions? Who goes first, thus gets his spell interrupted? Originally posted by barrel_master In the past I've seen mods do a roll off... heads one guy goes tails the other guy goes... I don't think there are rules for things like this. I think i can answer this in the most fair fashion possible. I used the simple rule of delay. The person with the highest initiative modifier gets to act last. I believe this to be the most fair and logical way of breaking stalemates. So lets say (in a fight i ran) Harv2 attempts to ready vs Pale. Pale wants to ready, both gladiators are adamant about letting the other go first. They each ready and then the delay starts. The one with the lowest init-mod (in this case was harv2) had to act first. But since i don't fight much anymore, i'll tell you how to get around the infinite ready. I don't mind giving some of my tactical secrets away since i've authored a few unique tactical situations in my time. The key here lies in the mechanics of a readied action. The readied action cannot take you past your next initiative. If you ready to disrupt a caster, and he doesn't cast, your ready is wasted. You do not continue to ready into the next initiative round. Since ready is a standard action, the caster can make this statement: Read to cast fireball upon the beginning of his initiative action. Bingo! Right there, your opponent's ready is dropped because it's now his turn to act and if he wants to "re-ready" the same action he needs to spend his standard to do so, and his/her previous ready from the last round is wasted. Meanwhile the caster can ready upon his opponents initiative beginning (ie. as soon as he begins to act) and foil "ready to disrupt" tactics. I've been wanting to do that with my gladiators but right now time won't really allow me more than a few minutes at a time on the comp for this kind of stuff so i'll let my secret out. :) Hope you all enjoy this months article of: Tellish's Tactical Tid-bits :) -ToK
Battousai2005 05-09-04, 11:15 PM	Originally posted by Sindorin How do you go about erasing spells? Does it cost anything, i.e. experience, gold? You may not want to ask me. It was able to be done in AD&D, but a lot has changed since. I would ask one of the eldar mods about this one.
Jindl 05-10-04, 12:31 AM	Originally posted by Sindorin How do you go about erasing spells? Does it cost anything, i.e. experience, gold? I imagine a sorceror is the only one who would want to do this, and then only so they could learn a different spell instead. Sorc's can do this every couple of levels (see the learning new spells description in the Sorc class). As for a wizard, there is a 1st level spell called erase. But I'm not sure why you would want to erase spells from your spellbook. Also, a specialist wizard only begins with the cantrips belonging to the schools he can cast. He won't have any spells from prohibited schools in his starting spellbook. @Cat - I'm pretty sure that Tellish is right about the rule of delay. When both characters are readying, the one with the higher initiative modifier gets to act last. -Jindl
Limit 05-10-04, 12:53 AM	Aemon vs Jo'Li (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3376686#post3376686) There were a couple of places where tactics wern't clear or didn't cover contigencies, so I'm expecting a few "Thats not what I would have done in that situation..." comments. Any feedback is welcome, as always. :cool:
daemones 05-10-04, 01:34 AM	Aramanithil vs Erg'cahl is posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3376886#post3376886). Please let me know what mistakes you find. SR 5+HD might not work well vs. wizards, but it sure does put a dent in some spell like abilities.
Caterane 05-10-04, 03:46 AM	@all: Please check the psionics thread. I have renewed the discussion about it. I want to hear your opinion now that the book is available. Based on this we decide wether we open a poll or not. @Tok: Good to have you back. How was the hunt? :)
Sindorin 05-10-04, 04:15 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Also, a specialist wizard only begins with the cantrips belonging to the schools he can cast. He won't have any spells from prohibited schools in his starting spellbook. -Jindl Thanks, Jindl, that's exactly what I was looking for...
Limit 05-10-04, 07:10 AM	@daemones: Just so you know, you wern't the only one to have the online dice roller die in the middle of your fight. I rolled initiative and then couldn't roll any more. Had to break out the trusty dice.
Myrridin 05-10-04, 09:30 AM	Are we back on the normal schedule now? Fights due by the end of Monday, pairings on Wed? I'd love to get back on that schedule.
Ethendril 05-10-04, 11:12 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Are we back on the normal schedule now? Fights due by the end of Monday, pairings on Wed? I'd love to get back on that schedule. Yep...that's the plan. Which means I better get started on my fight right now...
Magagumo 05-10-04, 11:13 AM	My "returning" speech is on Fight concerns, but just wanted to remind all that I have returned :P I'll take two fights this week, as I have a low ECL idea from Psionics book to try out. Tori and Zorander will both be fighting, and I see Tori has a lovely rematch with Angosh. *sighs, rolls eyes* This girl is getting in a rut, I need to have fresh blood ;). @PPL at 11th level Wake up some of those characters :). We have 6 or 7 people up there and only two are readied. We have to break the ice around the Elders sometime ;)
Jindl 05-10-04, 11:19 AM	@Mag - I have made the change for you to have two fights. @cellar - I have made the change you requested so that you will begin running fights again. RE: 11th level PC's - You can expect Anna to return to the arena soon, with her new cohort... -Jindl
Magagumo 05-10-04, 11:22 AM	@all Looking at Tori's sheet, I see I purchased a mw kukir for last week's fight and have never used it. Unless someone has a problem, I will be returning this item for full price and replacing it with mw armor spikes for 35 additional gp. I believe this is standard policy for unused items... @Pittbull Just for you, I've readied Toreilison. I don't want to have to bump any character twice, but I'm getting nothing but rematches here. Not to say I won't try vs. the "Black Beast," but Angosh is a tough build for her to fight... :)
Ethendril 05-10-04, 12:10 PM	Question about a readied action for the fight I'm running right now. How specific must the readied action be? Can you, for example, ready against casting a spell or drinking a potion, with the readied action triggering with either condition? My understanding was that the condition had to be fairly specific, such as just casting a spell. Quick input appreciated. -Ethendril
barrel_master 05-10-04, 12:15 PM	Personally, I thought it could be almost anything you'd be able to predefine beforehand... to be honest the SRD is a little vauge about it all... SRD: You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition.
Beldin 05-10-04, 12:18 PM	so could the condition be: your opponents next standard action?
barrel_master 05-10-04, 12:28 PM	I thought so, but now that you mention it that may be a little vauge... if I had to choose one over the other I'd say yes but to be honest it's one of those things that could be a judgement call... I don't see why you couldn't do it though.
Jindl 05-10-04, 12:45 PM	Originally posted by Beldin so could the condition be: your opponents next standard action? That has been commonplace, especially in my recent tactics. It's pretty much like saying "if my opponent does anything other than move". -Jindl
Ethendril 05-10-04, 03:26 PM	The extremely close Dra'kel vs. Enilias fight has been posted. Let me know about any errors. -Ethendril
MotherBast 05-10-04, 04:53 PM	Hey Limit, since you haven't posted the Candy vs. Ebelin fight yet, I have a tiny little tactics addition in your mailbox.
Limit 05-10-04, 05:36 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast Hey Limit, since you haven't posted the Candy vs. Ebelin fight yet, I have a tiny little tactics addition in your mailbox. Got it and starting now, see you all in ten hours or so. :weep:
MotherBast 05-10-04, 05:58 PM	Grimlok vs. Donkey finised. Only 9 rounds long. Will be posted in an hour or so.
Limit 05-10-04, 06:12 PM	Before I run this fight, I need to ask - can a tiny familiar occupy the same square as his owner and move with the owner (like in a sack) rather then of his own movement power? Reading the PHB, four tiny creatures can occupy the same square as each other, but a medium creature takes up the WHOLE square. Is this different for familiars for some reason?
daemones 05-10-04, 06:19 PM	@Limit: I'm at work and can't cite the source, but they can occupy the same space.
Caterane 05-10-04, 06:23 PM	@Limit: Of course they can. Actually since they have a reach of zero, they even HAVE to enter the opponments square in order to attack.
Ethendril 05-10-04, 06:37 PM	@Beldin: There's a challenge for Aemon in the RP thread.
SnarkHunter 05-10-04, 06:54 PM	TO my players: I've got all tactics recieved and what have you but I don't know if I'll have the fight up tonight :(. Time kinda...slips away from you on these hot summer nights. Also I'm forgetful and lazy. But if I'm very lucky I'll get the fight done tonight. If I am less then lucky I'll take the negative cred and you can expect it early tomorrow. Caio.
Beldin 05-10-04, 07:02 PM	is it right for a gladiators tactics to say something like: if something unexpected happens feel free to improvise...! (or anything like that) in the drakel fight ethendril made drakel skip his tactics because he thought drakel would die if he followed motherbasts tactics. because of that drakel won I don't think that is fair.
Ethendril 05-10-04, 07:11 PM	Originally posted by Beldin is it right for a gladiators tactics to say something like: if something unexpected happens feel free to improvise...! (or anything like that) in the drakel fight ethendril made drakel skip his tactics because he thought drakel would die if he followed motherbasts tactics. because of that drakel won I don't think that is fair. @ Beldin: Please see my response in the fight concerns thread.
Caterane 05-10-04, 07:12 PM	@Beldin: One cannot predict everything in a fight. Perhaps in a lowlevel fight you can cover most of your foes options but the higher in level the more you have to cover which is simply not possible. Look, we all would like to run our characters on our own but unfortunately thats not possible. The pitlord is the connection between you and your character and he has to find a way to lead him as you would do. Of course, he shouldn`t adept to something you hadn`t thought of - for example the other one comes up with a good idea but in the Drak'something fight it was an obvious decision. Following through with the tactics would`ve been stupid and the character woudl`ve acted like a zombie. I agree that it`s a narrow path a pitlord is walking onto but I think Ethendril did a great job here! I for sure would`ve done the same, and I hope you will too when you found yourself in such a position. Cat
Jindl 05-10-04, 07:37 PM	Johan vs the Harvester (2nd) is posted. I ran the fight using a map and figures, as there were at least 13 combatants in this fight... -Jindl
Ethendril 05-10-04, 07:42 PM	@Jindl: I thought you wrote an excellent story for your fight. Excellent work.
Caterane 05-10-04, 08:03 PM	1 hp, a critical miss on my harm, opposed to several criticals and maximum summon rolls from Jo? *sigh* Even the critical failure from the aura of menace would`ve saved the day. I`m used to it. Here´s my fight: Irwin vs Voiceless (4) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3383250#post3383250) and Aku vs Peter Patroclus (11) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3383520#post3383520)
Limit 05-10-04, 08:54 PM	I'm really sorry to do this, but something has come up and I'm not going to be able to run the Candy vs Ebelin and I am hoping that someone can volunteer to run this fight. Please keep in mind that this is an ECL 12 fight. I will check back when I can and forward tactics to the pitlord.
cellardweller 05-10-04, 09:05 PM	@jindl Thanks for cleaning up Johan's spell list - I had +3 for quicken in my head for some reason.
Arstimis 05-10-04, 09:18 PM	Zephin vs Kage is done and can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3384220#post3384220) I hope there isnt a mistake
Kaigan 05-10-04, 09:35 PM	Posted new character He is ready to fight this week, please look over for mistakes. Thanks
MysticMonk2005 05-10-04, 10:22 PM	Drahk and Sarah are Innactive. PARD RETURNS!! Pard is ready to fight 5/15
Ethendril 05-10-04, 10:42 PM	@Cat: Cool story. Very original and enjoyable.
Battousai2005 05-10-04, 11:06 PM	Kage will be active this week, but my other characters will be inactive. I would still like to mod max # of fights this week. Killer character idea, but I need a few creds. Kith may be deleted. Then again, he may come back. Contemplating this one. Anyway, check out the humor thread. You might get a kick out of some of the stuff.
Battousai2005 05-10-04, 11:14 PM	Kage challanges Dusk! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3385587#post3385587)
Myrridin 05-10-04, 11:27 PM	*sigh* Another week of getting crappy rolls. I stated that I wanted cover before I casted the Invis, hence the moving forward. Not that it made much difference. Next time, I'm just drinking a frelling potion.
Jindl 05-10-04, 11:28 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin *sigh* Another week of getting crappy rolls. I stated that I wanted cover before I casted the Invis, hence the moving forward. Not that it made much difference. Next time, I'm just drinking a frelling potion. You'll notice that Aku got a potion: invisibility several levels ago. Its a hard lesson learned, but its the best way to defeat the readied archers. -Jindl
Myrridin 05-10-04, 11:30 PM	Yep, definetly a potion when I can afford one. Just no real way to disrupt that. Even if I take the damage, I'm invis, and that's all that really matters. Clean fight Aristimis, just bad luck on my part, and good shooting on his.
Myrridin 05-10-04, 11:32 PM	Side note: I can run the Candy vs Ebelin fight Tuesday morning if anyone wants. If someone else wants it, knock yourself out, just thought I'd offer.
Mercy 05-10-04, 11:36 PM	Originally posted by Limit I'm really sorry to do this, but something has come up and I'm not going to be able to run the Candy vs Ebelin and I am hoping that someone can volunteer to run this fight. Please keep in mind that this is an ECL 12 fight. I will check back when I can and forward tactics to the pitlord. Limit - I can do it, but I won't be able to get the fight ran and posted until about 24 hours from now. If someone else can do it and get it done faster you might want to let them do it.
Jindl 05-11-04, 12:19 AM	@Myrridin - Thanks for offering, but with it being an ECL 12 fight, I'm going to ask Mercy to do it. @Limit - Please forward the tactics for Ebelin and Candy to Mercy. @Mercy + Limit - I'll be removing a credit from Limit and adding a credit to Mercy. Thanks! -Jindl
Arstimis 05-11-04, 01:34 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin *sigh* Another week of getting crappy rolls. I stated that I wanted cover before I casted the Invis, hence the moving forward. Not that it made much difference. Next time, I'm just drinking a frelling potion. Yes, i realized you would have wanted cover, but there wasnt a way for you to get to cover and cast invis in the same round, and i assumed you wanted to cast invis the first chance you got ya..i felt bad for your horrible luck...but, it happens, i hope you have better luck next time
Smergel 05-11-04, 04:13 AM	I was ill yesterday, so I haven't been able to run my fight yet. Will get to it this afternoon. Sorry about the delay. -Smergel
Caterane 05-11-04, 04:29 AM	Originally posted by Ethendril @Cat: Cool story. Very original and enjoyable. It was just the introduction to a greater plot.
Limit 05-11-04, 07:13 AM	Originally posted by Mercy Limit - I can do it, but I won't be able to get the fight ran and posted until about 24 hours from now. If someone else can do it and get it done faster you might want to let them do it. Tactics forwarded to you :-) Thank you for helping me out.
Myrridin 05-11-04, 08:25 AM	Aristimis: *shrug* Yeah, invis was my goal. Ah well, potion next time. My luck can't be that bad all the time.
Jindl 05-11-04, 10:33 AM	I have just updated the Roster. Of special note: Both Kiowen Civasion and Prof. Vandaeris Dre'Dandrahl have returned from the inactive list. -Jindl
Myrridin 05-11-04, 10:38 AM	Heh, at least I go up a level regardless of winning or losing next fight. I'd prefer the win, but I'll take the level however I can get it. :)
kattattack22 05-11-04, 11:37 AM	@Druid Roxors - thanks for getting running Arking vs. Zaphod. The casting of sheild when I wasn't close enough was fine. I'm not sure who's tatics you were commenting on later, but I have no problems with how the fight was run. EDIT: Arkin Jozil (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2835144#post2835144) has been updated. Could someone please double check my scribing of spells into my spellbook? I have never played a wizard before (sorcerors are better IMO) and the PH says that it costs 100 gp/page and that you need the scroll to do so.
barrel_master 05-11-04, 01:10 PM	Once again, for this week give me only 1 fight please.
kedi 05-11-04, 01:15 PM	can I get max fight?
Jindl 05-11-04, 01:24 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 Arkin Jozil (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2835144#post2835144) has been updated. Could someone please double check my scribing of spells into my spellbook? I have never played a wizard before (sorcerors are better IMO) and the PH says that it costs 100 gp/page and that you need the scroll to do so. Scribing a scroll into a spellbook destroys the scroll. So the scrolls of scorching ray, invisibility, see invisibility and protection from arrows that you scribed should not be listed as still available in your scroll case. Instead, they should be moved into the equipment used column. A better way to list this stuff is how I listed it for Aku. Take a look at his character sheet and see if you like how I listed his scribing of new spells. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 05-11-04, 01:36 PM	Fights up, sorry it took me so long. Actually running it was fairly brief though I think it was a pretty close one. you want to know what happened, highlight this: Heinrich lost oh here's the link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3389924#post3389924) by the by.
kattattack22 05-11-04, 01:38 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Scribing a scroll into a spellbook destroys the scroll. So the scrolls of scorching ray, invisibility, see invisibility and protection from arrows that you scribed should not be listed as still available in your scroll case. Instead, they should be moved into the equipment used column. A better way to list this stuff is how I listed it for Aku. Take a look at his character sheet and see if you like how I listed his scribing of new spells. -Jindl Ah, I read the PH wrong I thought the writing didn't disappear. Thanks, I will fix that.
Magagumo 05-11-04, 01:55 PM	Ahh.. Snark? I've got some issues with that fight of yours... check Fight concerns
MotherBast 05-11-04, 04:09 PM	Hey everybody. I am having a problem with my e-mail account. Untill further notice, please send all mail to me to Bob_man42000 (at) yahoo.com. I will let you know when the Motherbast address is back up.
Battousai2005 05-11-04, 05:12 PM	Originally posted by Jindl I have just updated the Roster. Of special note: Both Kiowen Civasion and Prof. Vandaeris Dre'Dandrahl have returned from the inactive list. -Jindl Yay! Old favorites return!
Hatzinger 05-11-04, 08:16 PM	@Elders Please regard Heinrich as being active and willing to fight in tomorrows pairings. I´ll update him asap tomorrow.
Mercy 05-11-04, 08:30 PM	Candy vs. Ebelin is posted
Battousai2005 05-11-04, 09:07 PM	@Cat: So, you want to let us in on the big mystery? What is it that you are so avidly saving creds for? My guess is a gold dragon, but then, thats me. Question (I know I'm annoying): Could someone define "attack action" as it says in the description for the Shot on the Run and Spring attack feats?
Magagumo 05-11-04, 11:20 PM	"Attack Action" Is defined as a single attack with a melee or ranged weapon. You may not cast spells, use wands/rods/scrolls or use Manyshot during these actions. So no Shot on the Run/Manyshot :(. Also no Spring Attack/Touch Spells. Edit: @ MErcy Looks to eb a good fight at first galnce, with only one issue: As a sorceror, Sanzin must spend a Full-Round when casting any metamagicked spells (like his Empowered Magic Missiles). This meant that Sanzin could only take a 5' step back each turn (not that it made a difference since Ebelin didn't have Point Blank Shot). Rem, sorcerors get lots of castings, but metamagic w/o Rods or Epic feats tend to hurt them badly.
Arstimis 05-12-04, 12:01 AM	I will request Zaphod to be bumped as he has just had his 3rd loss. and kiowen is actually ready right now, as i am not done with his allie. that and zaphod should all be updated by tonight though
SnarkHunter 05-12-04, 12:38 AM	Marking Donkey ready for this week. I'd like only 1 fight.
barrel_master 05-12-04, 12:52 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 @Cat: So, you want to let us in on the big mystery? What is it that you are so avidly saving creds for? My guess is a gold dragon, but then, thats me. Question (I know I'm annoying): Could someone define "attack action" as it says in the description for the Shot on the Run and Spring attack feats? I think what you're looking for is here http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=39
Druid Roxors 05-12-04, 02:37 AM	@ All: Im sorry about this week's fight, I wasn't able to make a story, I started but the backstory didn't match and so I didn't have enough time to edit it. In other news, I will not be able to pitlord for this week and Corinthus will only be active if my group is odd. (that is, If someone would be left out if Corinthus wouldnt fight)
freemoody 05-12-04, 06:19 AM	@ Jindl: I'm going to assume that the Lillith vs. Private Gyle fight is a no go. So I'm going to update Lillith so she can be paired today. Hope that's okay. Because I will be away from a computer for the next 10 hours. Two weeks in a row and no fights for Lillith. :banghead:
Battousai2005 05-12-04, 09:53 AM	Originally posted by barrel_master I think what you're looking for is here http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=39 hmmm. I wasn't far off. That is going to sting.
Alterlat 05-12-04, 11:05 AM	Originally posted by freemoody @ Jindl: I'm going to assume that the Lillith vs. Private Gyle fight is a no go. So I'm going to update Lillith so she can be paired today. Hope that's okay. Because I will be away from a computer for the next 10 hours. Two weeks in a row and no fights for Lillith. :banghead: @Jindl: I don't mind whether the fight gets reassigned or cancelled. If its cancelled, as freemoody is assuming, treat Gyle as ready for pairing this week.
Myrridin 05-12-04, 11:38 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 hmmm. I wasn't far off. That is going to sting. Yeah, it looks rather *****y. I think your only hope is long range Touch spells, using a bow as long as you have a high attack bonus with it....or I guess no save spells. Enervation is your friend. :) Too bad it's a close range spell. Enlarged Enervation then. If that thing gets into Melee, it's over.
Jindl 05-12-04, 01:04 PM	@All - Pairings will be in a couple of hours. @Kerlayn Rayne - Grym was eligible to bump after losing his last fight. I'm assuming that you didn't want to bump him (since you marked him ready and still at 10th level). @Cat - So neither the Harvester nor Ebelin will be ready against Aku? Well, I guess he could always do a monster fight... -Jindl
Magagumo 05-12-04, 01:58 PM	Speaking of monster fights: We never resolved the issue (to my knowledge) of monsters and ECLs. Honestly, Jindl, before you go and get a helper that might be changed by later rulings, shouldn't we begin to abide by the Character ECL-2 rule/suggestion? *Shrug* I know that has worked for cohorts through leadership, and I believe Ixidor follows the ECL rule at least (8th character with a 5- HD hydra)... It would just be nice to get that all resolved, since Aku, Anna, and a few of our soon-to-be-unfrozen members all use non class-acquired cohorts. (I realize Anna has the Leadership feat, but you have yet too post the cohort, so I'm referencing the gorgon here).
Caterane 05-12-04, 02:02 PM	@Jindl: Don`t have time to run more than 2 characters this week. I have to focus more on my D&D group where I am DM again, and writing tactics against Aku is time-consuming indeed. Since there`s only 1 level to go we are under no pressure. @Mag: ECL wouldn´t be right because Crimson or Nightingale (15 & 20 Hd, respectively) don`t live up to their ECL. They would even lose against someone half their ECL, and since the Harvester killed their living versions at such levels it proves me right. The CR would be more fitting.
daemones 05-12-04, 02:33 PM	Both my char's updated, in time for pairings I hope.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-12-04, 02:56 PM	I just announce that I am trying to beging a evil guild (called as Black Crown). It has been already declined in the guild registry, but if there are enough intrest, then it should get trough. So, do ANY of you villains, bandits, murderers etc. Want to join guild and show of those dominating Celestial Forces :devil: . "May us conquer and grow......." :invasion:
LLMadCow 05-12-04, 03:22 PM	@Jindl or Cat - Clìodhna d'Elrich is ready for play this week. She is level 7 and despite needing major renovations of the character sheet (Bolds, Italics, Font changes and such) she is ready for play. If one of the Elders would be so kind as to copy what is currently posted and give me the thumbs up, I will continue editing her sheet for clarity and conformity to the standards. Thanks gang. LL
Pitlords 05-12-04, 03:50 PM	Pairings are done. No more editing of character sheets. 1. Tactics are due Friday. 2. Pitlords may begin running fights with tactics on Friday. 3. Pitlords may begin running fights with default tactics on Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. Good Luck to everyone! -Jindl
Arstimis 05-12-04, 05:15 PM	There is one thing i noticed with the pairings that can get annoying. The purpose of the Arena is to test builds, but its hard to test them when you fight the same characters, so i thought the pitlord tried not to make rematches. Last week Enilias had to fight Drak'al (whatever) for the third time This is my second time fighting Jo'Li..when there was someone else new i could have fought. Those are just a couple i noticed. I'm just wondering if the the pitlord tries to find new people, or if its just random every week, so rematches happen
freemoody 05-12-04, 05:35 PM	Damn, Vaarkalikax is a friggin monster. :tantrum:
MotherBast 05-12-04, 05:58 PM	Tactics sent to CAT. Enjoy.
Ethendril 05-12-04, 06:07 PM	Originally posted by freemoody Damn, Vaarkalikax is a friggin monster. :tantrum: Naw, Vaarkalikax just thinks he's a friggin monster.
Caterane 05-12-04, 06:33 PM	Tactics received from Motherbast`s split minded alter ego Bob Jones. Hey Snark, you haven`t a free seat on your psychiatrist`s chair for him? :D Kidding, ...Bob! Tactics for Ixidor sent to Barrelmaster!
Limit 05-12-04, 06:38 PM	Outgoing Tactics The Voiceless Sent Incoming Tactics Zorander Brogaden, Magagumo Received Peter Patroclus, barrel_master Received Delayar, Beldin Not Received Dante Ironfist, Captain Mutilate Not Received
kattattack22 05-12-04, 06:41 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis There is one thing i noticed with the pairings that can get annoying. The purpose of the Arena is to test builds, but its hard to test them when you fight the same characters, so i thought the pitlord tried not to make rematches. Last week Enilias had to fight Drak'al (whatever) for the third time This is my second time fighting Jo'Li..when there was someone else new i could have fought. Those are just a couple i noticed. I'm just wondering if the the pitlord tries to find new people, or if its just random every week, so rematches happen I am pretty sure its random. EDIT: Tatics sent to cellardwellar
Battousai2005 05-12-04, 10:44 PM	So, anyway, how much does everyone mind alignment here? This question is entirely for off arena. I know the debate is that everyone is neutral, but in gladiatorial matches where you get paid to win, it does make sense. The alignment I'm referring to is that of race. Take Akordia. Drow are often evil, though it is not bred into them. However, my friend and I were recently in a debate. He insisted that a celestial (archon, solar, etc) could not be evil or they would become demons/devils of equal power. I thought that it must be possible. Anyway, as a DM, I think I streach it a little bit (CN Red dragon who can't really be CE because he is not really evil, just chaotic.) In the arena, do like restrictions apply. Could I, for example, make a succubus paladin (yes, I actually was considering this for sheer fun and to see what everyone would say) or a Half Fiend who was Chaotic good? Anyway, what's the opinion?
kattattack22 05-12-04, 11:00 PM	I don't mind it much. I usually ignore the alignment requirements and such for my players. In fact, the next campaign I run I am doing away with it as a mandortory element. Warning Mature Content As for characters of unusual alignment, I always say that a person to go against the norm needs a character reason. If its something really out there they need a real good reason. For example, I played a Half-Fiend Paladin/Blackguard in a short lived evil campaign. I had it that a devil raped his mother and later when he was born she couldn't kill him so she persuased a temple of Pelor to bring him up and make sure that he would not become like his father. Then for the Blackguard I had him arouse jealousy and a rival planted the incantions to summon demons and devils in his room that the elders discovered and the half-fiend fled fearing for his life and swore revenge becoming LE. Some experience that makes them reject the ways of their people or different upbringing.
MotherBast 05-12-04, 11:05 PM	When Leadership was first allowed it was decided that all allignment restrictions must be followed. if the book says an alignement for a creature is "always" x/x, then it is not possible to have a different allignment. So Fiends, Devils, and Celestials are locked into allignments I'm afraid.
Battousai2005 05-12-04, 11:26 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast When Leadership was first allowed it was decided that all allignment restrictions must be followed. if the book says an alignement for a creature is "always" x/x, then it is not possible to have a different allignment. So Fiends, Devils, and Celestials are locked into allignments I'm afraid. I can see the problems here. However, my question was more directed at the actual gladiators in the arena. My idea for a succubus paladin, for example. Am I allowed to go insane with that kind of opposition? EDIT: Side note. Can I make a character before I have the creds I need to make it? I'm not sure if I want to or not. It's what I want to save for (Even If it takes forever to pay off[do I sound like a kid before Christmas? Oh yes{Parenthesis of Doom!}])
Sindorin 05-13-04, 12:11 AM	Tactics sent to Aramil Dunskar.
SnarkHunter 05-13-04, 12:35 AM	Batt: If they're listed as always X allignment then I don't think you can get away with changing it. If its just a tendancy (usually X) then you could make it whatever you want. The 1st case is just to much DM arbitration to change willy nilly I think. YOu can make the character before you have the credits. You'll be assigned max fights each week till you pay them off. Also Donkey's tactics PMed to Mercy.
Limit 05-13-04, 12:50 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 I can see the problems here. However, my question was more directed at the actual gladiators in the arena. My idea for a succubus paladin, for example. Am I allowed to go insane with that kind of opposition? Yes, for an actual played character (not a leadership cohort), you can choose any alignment you'd like. If you check the MM on page 305, under the entry for "Always" it does say that there are rare exceptions, so somewhere there are the few, rare lawful good succubi. EDIT: Oh, look what I found in the SRD Evil Subtype: A subtype usually applied only to outsiders native to the evil-aligned Outer Planes. Evil outsiders are also called fiends. Most creatures that have this subtype also have evil alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the evil subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields were evil-aligned (see Damage Reduction, above). So you'd be in for a hurting if you made a lawful good succubi, because you'd be affected by things that affect lawful, chaotic, good, and evil. Thats one hell of a rub, isn't it?
^Rayne^ 05-13-04, 12:56 AM	Battousai2005, Tactics for Aiki Auk verses The Voiceless have been sent to you via PM. If you have any questions, please let me know but I think everything looks pretty plain seeing as he is a fighter and his path is set. I look forward to a good fight. Rayne
cellardweller 05-13-04, 12:59 AM	All tactics recieved. The early submissions are appreciated. Shiaan's tactics have been sent.
Hatzinger 05-13-04, 04:16 AM	@Ethendril Tactics for Heinrich have been sent via email; please confirm their arrival.
Pittbull 05-13-04, 04:18 AM	@MB: Tactic is sent to Bob_man42000 a yahoo.com. Please confirm reception.
Beldin 05-13-04, 06:43 AM	@mag: tactics for aemon have been send
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-13-04, 06:55 AM	Sended tactics to Kaigan.
MotherBast 05-13-04, 07:02 AM	Batt: The allignment restrictions apply to gladiators as well. If it says "always", then you must use that allignment. If it says "usually", then you are free to change it.
Myrridin 05-13-04, 08:28 AM	Do Cohorts get their own stash of money, or does the main character have to pay for it out of their pocket?
Myrridin 05-13-04, 08:47 AM	Tactics received from Private Gyle and Bloodmaiden Shiaan.
kattattack22 05-13-04, 09:46 AM	@cellardweller - tiny addendum to Arkin's tatics sent via PM. It's just a general thing, nothing that will change the Arkin's basic tatics.
Hatzinger 05-13-04, 09:51 AM	Myrridin, you have to equip your cohort with the character wealth your main character owns. Cohorts do not come with money/equipment. (otherwise, i´d already have one. :D)
Kaigan 05-13-04, 10:27 AM	@Cellerwarder: Sent Matei's tactics @Barrel_master: Sent Enilias's tactics Received tactics from Kazeira
Myrridin 05-13-04, 10:37 AM	kedi: You need to check your character sheet then. As you have less gold than you listed on Attila, and your cohort does not get her own gold. The fight is up, please let me know any major mistakes. Private Gyle vs Bloodmaiden Shiaan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3409351#post3409351)
Jindl 05-13-04, 11:03 AM	@Beldin - Capt. Mutilate asked me to make Dante Ironfist active again. He is ready for this week and at 4th level. Since Delayar rolled out for pairings, did you want to be matched up against Dante Ironfist? Please let me know ASAP, so that I can assign a pitlord. Also, are there any pitlords who would volunteer to run this level 4 fight? -Jindl
Limit 05-13-04, 11:05 AM	I can do it Jindl :)
Beldin 05-13-04, 12:14 PM	@jindl: yes i want!:)
Jindl 05-13-04, 12:32 PM	I have made the pairing: Delayar, Beldin vs Dante Ironfist, Captain Mutilate: Limit. -Jindl
LLMadCow 05-13-04, 12:34 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Beldin - Capt. Mutilate asked me to make Dante Ironfist active again. He is ready for this week and at 4th level. Since Delayar rolled out for pairings, did you want to be matched up against Dante Ironfist? Please let me know ASAP, so that I can assign a pitlord. Also, are there any pitlords who would volunteer to run this level 4 fight? -Jindl I would be more than happy to run the fight. This would help me get back on track for getting the credits I need for my next character... :cool:
Jindl 05-13-04, 12:36 PM	Sorry LL, but Limit beat you to it. Did you want me to reactivate you as a pitlord (running 1 fight a week)? -Jindl
Ethendril 05-13-04, 01:08 PM	@ Mag: Tactics sent for both Dusk and Vaarkalikax. Let me know if you have any questions.
Jindl 05-13-04, 01:34 PM	@Myrridin - Tactics sent for Rhoar. @Battousai2005 - Tactics recieved for Kage. Still waiting on tactics for Sven Enno (Market_Share). -Jindl
Magagumo 05-13-04, 01:37 PM	On Alignment: Aye, one of the books (maybe Savage Species) described a creature that deviates from always X as "one in a million." I played a CG Xill once, but that was Epic.. and Snark never really explained what Limbo did he mess him up like that ;) I have recieved Beldin and Ethendril's (see, I got it right ;)) tactics. I will be reviewing them shortly. @Limit & MB: Tactics have been sent Edit: @Ethendril- got your 2nd email and sent reply. If you get it to me today, I can get your fight run :)
Myrridin 05-13-04, 02:04 PM	Tactics received from Jindl for Rhoar. Just waiting for Smergel tactics.
MotherBast 05-13-04, 04:50 PM	Mag: tactics not recived. If you missed my post above, I currently do not have access to the Motherbast e-mail account due to an error. Please either PM your tactics, or send them to Bob_man42000 (at) yahoo.com.
Mercy 05-13-04, 05:41 PM	@Tellish - Tactics sent for Jo'Li vs. Zaphod @SnarkHunter - Tactics received for Donkey @KerlanRayne - Still waiting for tactics
Ethendril 05-13-04, 05:51 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Edit: @Ethendril- got your 2nd email and sent reply. If you get it to me today, I can get your fight run :) Mag: I sent you some final tactics. I actually revised them twice, so please use the second version that says FINAL TACTICS. Thanks.
MotherBast 05-13-04, 07:02 PM	Angosh vs. Tori is finished. Short one, the dice Gods smiled on one of them, and took a crap on the other. And now its posted. Enjoy.
Magagumo 05-13-04, 08:23 PM	Wow *blinks* Luck hasn't swung my way in a long time... @Ethendril Final version confirmed, gonna run it now, thx to Snark giving me the essential materials.
freemoody 05-13-04, 09:01 PM	@ Magagumo: Tactics for Lillith sent via PM and E-Mail. BTW: I was just kidding about giving up. :D
barrel_master 05-13-04, 10:26 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Do Cohorts get their own stash of money, or does the main character have to pay for it out of their pocket? Main characters pay for stuff.
Magagumo 05-13-04, 10:41 PM	Tactics recieved Also, Dusk v. Aemon is up. That was a close match, back and forth until the last round. Enjoy.
Battousai2005 05-13-04, 11:43 PM	Tactics have been recieved for voiceless and Aiki Auk. Expect fight for Saturday PM. @Mystic Monk and Daemones: No tactics on either side as of yet
Tellish_of_Ket 05-13-04, 11:50 PM	@ Jindl: Kelek is ready to take on the Pale-Rider @ Mercy: tactics recieved. -ToK
Battousai2005 05-13-04, 11:52 PM	Question: Looking at Cat's newest (and most brutal looking) character, Zedarak, I have a few questions. 1) Can we use racial HD like class levels? (the +1 str in Cat's case) 2) Do we need to stick to the skills/feats given in the MM? 3) Do we need class levels? Edit: Tactics recieved for Irwin. Waiting only on Mystic Monk
Magagumo 05-14-04, 12:21 AM	As long as you have a racial HD, you don't need class levels. However, you cannot count racial HD for stat increases, you must wait to the closest 4 HD interval. SO a 6 HD creature would get their first stat increase at their 2nd class level (I suppose Cat would need to fix that, since no stat increases until class levels). As for feats- you may pick your own feats, though racial bonus feats are fixed. As for skills, those which are listed under the monster description are their Class Skills, so any other skills taken are treated as Cross-Class.
cellardweller 05-14-04, 12:49 AM	Racial HD count for stat aquisition SRD Feat Acquisition and Ability Score Increases: A monster’s total Hit Dice, not its ECL, govern its acquisition of feats and ability score increases.
Tellish_of_Ket 05-14-04, 02:32 AM	Originally posted by Magagumo As long as you have a racial HD, you don't need class levels. However, you cannot count racial HD for stat increases, you must wait to the closest 4 HD interval. SO a 6 HD creature would get their first stat increase at their 2nd class level (I suppose Cat would need to fix that, since no stat increases until class levels). Racial HD do count toward those. I know because i've been working on JUGGERNAUT myself and had to answer the very same question. -ToK **EDIT** JUGGERNAUT (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2788242#post2788242) btw, he's work in progress, so any suggestions are more than welcomed
Hatzinger 05-14-04, 05:16 AM	Yes, it just took me quite some time to find the right answers in the books. WotC has dispersed that information a bit. Would have been easier for players to devote a whole section in the MM to this topic with all relevant information.
Magagumo 05-14-04, 09:58 AM	T_o_K WOuld you mind showing me a quoate that states that a monster character recieves stat increases retoractively for their racial HD? cellardwellar's quote stipulates that one only look at the monster character's HD, not ECL, when counting feats and HD. In other words, the mind flayer (15th ECL) does not have 6 feats and would not gain a stat increase at its next level. Rather, its 8 HD stipulate that it have three feats, and that next level it will gain a fourth. As for stat increases, those will have to wait until its 12th HD. To quote the MM pg. 290, Whenever a monster reaches a number of HD divisible by 4, it improves one ability score by 1 point... Monsters do not gain ability score increases for levels they "already reached" with their racial HD, since their adjustments are included in their basic ability scores. It's all spelled out right there.
Myrridin 05-14-04, 11:28 AM	Still need tactics from Smergel. However I won't be able to run the fight until Monday, so if either Smergel or Jindl would like to modify their tactics, I will accept modifications up until 8am, EST Monday morning.
Jindl 05-14-04, 12:57 PM	Deleted
Limit 05-14-04, 12:58 PM	I have a question regarding the Leadership feat and Racial HD. Your "character level" needs to be 6 in order to qualify for leadership, I'm guessing this is when your Racial HD + Class Levels = 6, but I wanted to make sure. Related SRD Passage: Feat Acquisition and Ability Score Increases: A monster’s total Hit Dice, not its ECL, govern its acquisition of feats and ability score increases.
Jindl 05-14-04, 01:02 PM	Originally posted by Limit I have a question regarding the Leadership feat and Racial HD. Your "character level" needs to be 6 in order to qualify for leadership, I'm guessing this is when your Racial HD + Class Levels = 6, but I wanted to make sure. Related SRD Passage: This was rather unclear when we discussed it earlier. But we ended up allowing ECL to qualify as the 6th level prereq for Leadership (which is how Kiri qualified for the feat so early.) -Jindl
Ethendril 05-14-04, 01:17 PM	Originally posted by Jindl This was rather unclear when we discussed it earlier. But we ended up allowing ECL to qualify as the 6th level prereq for Leadership (which is how Kiri qualified for the feat so early.) -Jindl Actually, I had to trade my feat in... I took the feat at 6th level, but someone caught me cheating and I had to give it back. I think it's clear that ECL does not count as levels for this purpose, but I think Limit's question is in regard to racial HD, and whether it counts.
Jindl 05-14-04, 01:22 PM	Ah yes, I remember now. Okay, then yes, you must be 6 HD in order to gain Leadership. Racial HD are treated like levels in a racial class. -Jindl
Magagumo 05-14-04, 01:37 PM	Vaarka vs. Lillith posted in a bit....short fight
Ethendril 05-14-04, 01:45 PM	Mag: Nice stories on both of the fights you ran with my characters...you are a good story teller.
Jindl 05-14-04, 01:50 PM	Well, its a good thing Gabriel flew in to help finish the ritual, since Lillith has been ... detained. -Jindl
Ethendril 05-14-04, 02:05 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Well, its a good thing Gabriel flew in to help finish the ritual, since Lillith has been ... detained. -Jindl Hmmm. I'm pretty sure there's a rule against cohorts crafting items or participating in complex, forest-saving rituals. I think I'm going to continue this story, but Jindl may need another gambit!
Ethendril 05-14-04, 03:47 PM	@Jindl: It seems like you said the Caster Level requirement has been done away with for crafting items...did you say that? EDIT: @Mag: I was just checking out Tori...congrats on being the first arena blackguard!
Jindl 05-14-04, 04:00 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril @Jindl: It seems like you said the Caster Level requirement has been done away with for crafting items...did you say that? Yeah, it is written in either the Errata or the FAQ. I think it was the Errata. Crafter's no longer have to meet the item's CL to craft the item. Some items have a CL specifically listed as a pre-req (such as Ioun stones, spell storing weapons, etc) and you must meet the CL pre-req if it is specifically listed. Also, the normal CL prereqs for the crafting feats still apply. -Jindl
Magagumo 05-14-04, 05:31 PM	@Eth Thank you :) Been waiting awhile for that to happen. Also, go check out my fight editing report.
SnarkHunter 05-14-04, 09:19 PM	Hmmm I don't usually like double posting but this is fairly important so I'll say it twice Expanded Psionics have been added to the SRD! Check it out here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35), and mayhaps we can go back to debating this. <===really wants to try out the wilder class :).
Battousai2005 05-14-04, 11:13 PM	Posted a new character, Ari'alla. No, I do not have the creds, and yes, I know I am not going to be able to use her for a good, long time. but its fun all the same!:angel:
Jindl 05-14-04, 11:15 PM	@Battousai - You know Nymphs are ECL 13, right? Thats 33 credits to bring one in. Plus, they only have 6d6 HD (23.5 + 6xCon hps), a BAB of 3, max skill ranks of 9, etc, etc. If you can pull off a winning character concept with a +7 ECL, I say more power to you. I just want to make sure you are aware of what you are getting into. That is a huge number of credits to use on a character that will likely be weak compared to the other gladiators of her level. -Jindl
Mercy 05-14-04, 11:50 PM	"Come one, Come All; See the Battle of the Brutes!" Grym Mordib vs. Donkey posted
TaggIIV 05-14-04, 11:59 PM	@kedi: tactics for tanya sent
kedi 05-15-04, 01:39 AM	Fight is posted. SPOILER: Silent blade, cuts the best, noisy blade pierces the rest :P
Magagumo 05-15-04, 01:39 AM	Jumping the gun, the first sionics character has been created. I have provided links for new skill rules, and have listed the basic concepts of race and class. You'll have to look up the powers on your own time ;)
SnarkHunter 05-15-04, 02:35 AM	And I the second Check it out (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3425737#post3425737).
Magagumo 05-15-04, 02:48 AM	Followed by the third :D
Pitlords 05-15-04, 03:49 AM	@all: A bloody coup from the Comittee has blown the Council of Elders apart! Our wizards immideately rebuilded a new location called the Senate. Ethendril, Tellish, and Motherbast: please make one and only one post in the new Senate thread! A new poll concerning psionics has been opened for everyone. I would advice people not to create psionic characters until it is approved! Here`s the link Psionics? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3425996#post3425996) The Guild Master account is now an official position of authority much like the pitlord account! The Ravens and the Brotherhood of the Arcane are in red violation because they didn`t write the primary user name in the signiture! If you do not fulfill this requirement your guilds will be disbanded. You are putting the whole guild idea at risk! - Cat
kedi 05-15-04, 04:40 AM	I believe magagumo's character is illegal, wheter we can use psionics or not. You can't have more than one character levels when creating a LA > 0 character.
Caterane 05-15-04, 04:45 AM	*hrmpf* Please guys, wait until after the result. Even if it is approved we`ll have to make up some guidelines
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-15-04, 10:03 AM	Just a question. Can you place traps inside a arena as pre-buffing? I have put plenty of effort, money and pre-planning to able to make traps into the arena. Somebody now told me that I cannot use any of the traps and I want to this get cleared. In my opinion traps would bring......life to the match :) (imagine barbarian running in rage into spiked pit because he was not bothering to look where he puts his foot). Also this would make rogues use their trap finding in good use ;). If my craft (trapmaking) is completely useless, I will take skill points away and re-put them into "more" uselfull skills if that is allowed (if trapping was forbidden in arena, then why ANY of the pitlords did not mention this to me when I made my char and bougth materials for making traps?).
SnarkHunter 05-15-04, 11:24 AM	@Cat: Aaaaah we were just bored and crazy. Besides this lets the uninitiated get a feel for what could be going down. My take? A 2nd level Psion is less potentially deadly then a 2nd level Wizard. I could be wrong but thats my sense. @Kedi: yeah your right, I think he just hasn't made a 2nd level character in a while :D. @Kazz: Sorry dude, but I don't think you'll get your chance to make traps... You probably should of asked permission before you tried to do this. *Pot calls kettle black*.
Tellish_of_Ket 05-15-04, 11:30 AM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon If my craft (trapmaking) is completely useless, I will take skill points away and re-put them into "more" uselfull skills if that is allowed (if trapping was forbidden in arena, then why ANY of the pitlords did not mention this to me when I made my char and bougth materials for making traps?). I attempted something like that awhile back when people were being cheesy. It didn't go over so well. :) Basically as a pre-buff i would put a trap in the persons starting location along with traps in each 5' square surrounding them. lol Needless to say, everyone said NO to traps. -ToK
MotherBast 05-15-04, 11:50 AM	Of course, you could always build simple traps after the battle has begun, say while invisable or hidden. I don't think this would be very effective, but its still possible. But I remember the trap discussion way back when. It was very short and went something like. "I don't think that should be allowed." Everyone else: "Me neither", "ditto", "I don't like the idea.", "hey, we aren't allowing that are we?" So in the end, I belive traps were a No-go.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-15-04, 12:00 PM	What about if the range where you can deploy traps is clealry stated? Like; All traps must be deployed 30'f away from BOTH gladiators and traps location/effect/direction must be clearly stated. Also I thinked there can be limit how many traps, whit certain CR can be deployed. So, whole arena can be filled whit weaker traps, while there can be in best case only ONE high CR trap. I think 1/5 is reasonable break up how many traps can be put by CR. So, examply there cna be five CR 2 traps (ten CR 1) while there can be only be one CR 10 trap (if gladiator can make such). But if they are not allowed, then WHY noboddy did not warn me while I was shpping and allocating skill points for a useless skill?
Magagumo 05-15-04, 01:04 PM	Yep boredom and craziness. Also, my Half-giantess will be built using three credits, I believe I'm close to that number right now. Unless I was mistaken, I thought we could cancel out that LA with a credit, no? But yes, take a look at the characters and get a feel for psionics, I left a link to the new skill, Autohypnosis, and rules for Psionic Concentration. The one interesting new power is Expansion which functions as a std action activated Enlarge Person for any creature type. BUt before you get in an uproar ;). The unitinitated (those who can't cast it) can buy the 50 gp tatoo, but it oonly lasts 1 minute (the potions last 5 minutes0. Furhtermore, I do not believe psionics has permenancy, so permenanlty enlarged gladiators still have that advantage.
Battousai2005 05-15-04, 02:54 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Battousai - You know Nymphs are ECL 13, right? Thats 33 credits to bring one in. Plus, they only have 6d6 HD (23.5 + 6xCon hps), a BAB of 3, max skill ranks of 9, etc, etc. If you can pull off a winning character concept with a +7 ECL, I say more power to you. I just want to make sure you are aware of what you are getting into. That is a huge number of credits to use on a character that will likely be weak compared to the other gladiators of her level. -Jindl Yah, I realize all of this, but I'm going to do a character for fun as opposed to victories. Anyway, Nymph's are not as bad as you make them out to be. Just an example, but blinding beauty really hurts. Not to mention the whole 7th lev druid casting. And actually, I do think I can win with it. Besides, I live for challanges.
Battousai2005 05-15-04, 03:01 PM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon What about if the range where you can deploy traps is clealry stated? Like; All traps must be deployed 30'f away from BOTH gladiators and traps location/effect/direction must be clearly stated. Also I thinked there can be limit how many traps, whit certain CR can be deployed. So, whole arena can be filled whit weaker traps, while there can be in best case only ONE high CR trap. I think 1/5 is reasonable break up how many traps can be put by CR. So, examply there cna be five CR 2 traps (ten CR 1) while there can be only be one CR 10 trap (if gladiator can make such). But if they are not allowed, then WHY noboddy did not warn me while I was shpping and allocating skill points for a useless skill? No one told you because a) We are human. We tend to make mistakes. b) Ummm. You never used it... Traps are fun and all, but it does not seem to fit in the arena. A couple of reasons come to mind. 1. Search: Half move speed. Slows the match down 2. Disable device: Lets say no one has this and they are surrounded by traps. Kinda screwed over here. 3. Unbalancing: For the above reasons. 4. Those who don't take craft trapmaking are at a disadvantage. 5. Not logical: Just a thought, but what are the odds that in a fair match, the judges allow one gladiator to enter, set up traps, and then leave? It's a good idea, but I just don't think there is a good place for it. Edit: Question, does leadership allow ECL -2 or Class level/HD -2?
Magagumo 05-15-04, 03:33 PM	Your class levels + racial HD- 2= maximum ECL of cohort
MotherBast 05-15-04, 03:46 PM	Its ECL, so LAs also factor in.
Caterane 05-15-04, 03:51 PM	I thought about covering the whole arena with Forbiddance spells in the Harvester vs Johan fight, but unfortunately that wasn`t possible
Limit 05-15-04, 05:30 PM	Dante vs Delayar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3429907#post3429907) Yes, even a wizard can grapple :)
^Rayne^ 05-15-04, 05:38 PM	Kazzaroth Pan'theon, I thought traps were allowed as well. I have been allocating skill points to Vryk's Craft Traps skills since day one. I was planning on building a lot of premade snares that could be laid out during a match while he is hidden in places with cover. Then I go and read these... Originally posted by Battousai2005 No one told you because a) We are human. We tend to make mistakes. b) Ummm. You never used it... Traps are fun and all, but it does not seem to fit in the arena. A couple of reasons come to mind. 1. Search: Half move speed. Slows the match down 2. Disable device: Lets say no one has this and they are surrounded by traps. Kinda screwed over here. 3. Unbalancing: For the above reasons. 4. Those who don't take craft trapmaking are at a disadvantage. 5. Not logical: Just a thought, but what are the odds that in a fair match, the judges allow one gladiator to enter, set up traps, and then leave? It's a good idea, but I just don't think there is a good place for it. Edit: Question, does leadership allow ECL -2 or Class level/HD -2? Originally posted by MotherBast Of course, you could always build simple traps after the battle has begun, say while invisable or hidden. I don't think this would be very effective, but its still possible. But I remember the trap discussion way back when. It was very short and went something like. "I don't think that should be allowed." Everyone else: "Me neither", "ditto", "I don't like the idea.", "hey, we aren't allowing that are we?" So in the end, I belive traps were a No-go. I've never seen these "discussions" about not having traps and I don't think they are a valid decision anyway. If someone doesn't allocate any of their skill points to Search skill then it is there own fault for being short-sited on their builds. This isn Clone Coliseum and traps are in Core rules. If we expect to see more counters to our trap making PC's maybe people will see the value of high level thieves. Matches may slow down but they also might not slow down at all. A gladiator who can lay down one trap may fight someone who isn't afraid of the damage and will run through the trap and take the damage to get to the person laying it. Players who put skill points into this and spend HUGE amounts of money on snare traps shouldn't have thier extreme cost and skill points invalidated. This Arena setting was built to test builds. To arbitrarily ignore certain ones because people don't want to have to worry about a Search skill is unfair. So many of these gladiators are being made to optimize thier skills for only one type of combat but that is not the fault of me or Kazzaroth Pan'theon. We realized that many people have been short-sited on their builds and we also saw a need for the testing of Gladiator's who use traps. It only makes sense to me that we can use this ability. Players who invest tons of skills in Riding animals and Leadership for Cohorts are not denied their skills, but we are Lets look closer at the reasoning give to take away traps... "1. Search: Half move speed. Slows the match down" Not all PC's will worry about Search. Many will have enough hitpoints to just run right through the trapped areas. Besides taking away the need for this skill invalidates the standard Rogue build. It isn't surprising not many people use Rogues in the arena. The rules and builds currently used don't test their strengths. However more people using traps will test these builds and will make them more useful. 2. Disable device: Lets say no one has this and they are surrounded by traps. Kinda screwed over here. As mentioned above, this skill is a prime reason for choosing a rogue PC, do not allow traps takes away one of the key reasons for developing rogue builds in the arena. Also it points out how most PC's are not developed to be versatile. If players are only threatened by one sort of obstacle then they are built to face only that problem. If combatants are faced with traps they will adapt to be better prepared. Perhaps they will invest more effort in bumping up their Reflex saves. Perhaps a barbarians Uncanny Dodge will be more useful. These matches are supposed to fairly test all builds. Right now it isolates the options and makes certain builds more preferred as a result. 3. Unbalancing: For the above reasons. I do not believe it is unbalancing. I believe many have made it unbalancing by not having traps in the game. By doing this they have made some classes like Rogues (and barbarians) not as useful. A rogue with the above skills will fair fine against a PC who specializes in traps. A straight up Druid or Wizard or Cleric may not fair as well but right now these are the power builds because they have been given the advantage of never having the traps be allowed. They have tilted the favor to their classes by making certain skills useless and threats that they are vulnerable to removed from the game. Every build should have a weakness and a strength. By removing traps from the arena you have taken away a strength from rogues and barbarians and taken away a weakness for many other classes. I think the reason you and many others have labeled it as unbalancing is that you see this is the Kryptonite that will weaken your Superman builds. 4. Those who don't take craft trapmaking are at a disadvantage. This isn't a fair assessment. The same has been said about those who don't take the Ride skill or Leadership feat. To take skills in one area our PC's have to give up skills somewhere else. Also I don't know if you've looked up the cost of traps but to make an effective trap in this game it costs a FORTUNE. That is the reason Vryk hasn't unleashed any on the arena floor yet. They take a serious amount of resources and therefore that means that Vryk and builds that have trapmaking skill have to divert much of their resources from cool items to boost stats and make them killing machines to making traps that are not useless moneypits. 5. Not logical: Just a thought, but what are the odds that in a fair match, the judges allow one gladiator to enter, set up traps, and then leave? Of course this isn't fair. To set up a trap it has to be a well designed portable snare. This costs extra money thus maintaining the balance you are concerned about. I don't think it would be fair at all to walk in and set up traps ahead of time. I wouldn't suggest anything like that. However if a trap making gladiator can effectively hide themselves in the arena and spend a round or two setting up some ranged snares without being noticed then I say more power to them. They deserve to use their traps skill and they are doing it without breaking the rules. I think my opinion on this subject is pretty obvious but I think people out there who are trying to invalidate it because their PC's won't fair too well against it, I say this... Every PC has a weakness. That is what balance is. This isn't Perfection Coliseum as much as that is what many of you are turning it into. Many of you scream bloody murder when someone's build has their way with your PC but this game is like a complex form of Rock, Scissors, Paper every build has a class they are weaker against. That is how it should be. You people are throwing out the 'paper' PC and building a whole bunch of 'Rock' PC's so you don't have anything to worry about. When some of you try to outlaw certains skills and methods you are removing some classes weaknesses and illiminating other classes strengths so that your builds cannot be defeated. That is messing up the balance of the D&D system. This arena is designed to test Core rules. We are given resources to spend as we see fit within the guidelines of the Core rules. Traps are part of the Core Rules and they should not be singled out as invalid because they show glaring weaknesses in your builds.
Magagumo 05-15-04, 05:52 PM	Trap Rules are aren't that easy: It costs gold to make traps, and it take time (they list checks in days, I recall), to make any decent ones.
MotherBast 05-15-04, 05:53 PM	Rayne, it's not that traps aren't allowed. As a matter of fact, magical traps have been used in the arena before. Its that you are not allowed to create traps "before" a match, like as a pre-buff. You can't alter the arena with traps before the fight. If you want to play a trapmaker, and lay down snares after the fight has started, no one can stop you. I was just stating my opinion when I said I didn't think this would be very effective, you might be able to prove me wrong. So, to be more clear, traps are allowed, just not as pre-buffs.
^Rayne^ 05-15-04, 06:20 PM	I am glad to hear that traps have not been banned. I had planned on creating snares with a small range on them that my PC could lay around him. They cost a fortune to make especially one that isn't destroyed when it goes off and has a high enough DC to work. I do agree they should not be allowed as 'pre-buffs' in advance of a fight though. A PC who makes them should have to design them to be portable for the purposes of bringing them into the arena. Then and only then should they be allowed to set them up and use against foes.
daemones 05-15-04, 06:51 PM	@Caterane: I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw "wildshape(beer)"
Battousai2005 05-15-04, 08:11 PM	@Rayne: Very nice. That was a splendid argument. I was not arguing against all traps (I know I made it sound that way) I was only arguing against using it as a pre-buff. Still, there are some slight flaws in your logic. In saying that most PC's wont bother with search checks, I think you're mistaken. I don't know about everyone else, but I have had one too many fights where I lost by 1 or 2 HP. Then again, I tend to make sure I stay alive as opposed to reckless charging when I play in a dungeon with traps. Also, consider the wizard and Cleric who don't have the HD of a fighter nor the rouges reflex save. You note that this would be the reason for playing a rouge PC. Personally, I don't over-like playing rouges. While I have been known to do so, I like cross classing for various reasons. Oh, and as for rouges being out of favor not having traps, I suggest you look at a few in the arena. Sneak attacks really hurt. Anyway, not directing any of this at you, just pointing some things out. I agree that portable traps should be allowed, but Pre-buffing one seems strange to me.
Kaigan 05-15-04, 08:18 PM	@Battousai: Its rogues. Not rouges. rouges=red in french. Get it right!
Caterane 05-15-04, 08:35 PM	To all: We are voting on the new 3.5 EXPANDED Psionics Handbook ...not the 3.0 book! Please keep this in mind when you vote. The new book is much different from the old one. @Rayne: Of course you can use traps. Perhaps we could even come up with a rule that you may enter the dome once before the fight. Ah, Forbiddance :) But tell me, what are you going to do with a trap. Most characters fly anyway, and they must have my 'luck' to walk exactly onto this very field where the trap is.
Battousai2005 05-15-04, 08:39 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan @Battousai: Its rogues. Not rouges. rouges=red in french. Get it right! I can misspell all I want!!! You cannot stop me!!! Start the revolution!!! umm... I'm done now.
Arstimis 05-15-04, 08:45 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 I can misspell all I want!!! You cannot stop me!!! Start the revolution!!! umm... I'm done now. You spelt everything in your statement correct. so, there is no revolution, you have been stopped.
Kaigan 05-15-04, 08:47 PM	Arstimis: 1 Battousai: 0
Caterane 05-15-04, 08:49 PM	The real misspelling revolutioner is Motherbast :P
^Rayne^ 05-15-04, 09:23 PM	@Rayne: Of course you can use traps. Perhaps we could even come up with a rule that you may enter the dome once before the fight. Ah, Forbiddance But tell me, what are you going to do with a trap. Most characters fly anyway, and they must have my 'luck' to walk exactly onto this very field where the trap is. Caterane the key is a Proximity trigger. They cost a fair amount of moo-laa but this means an enemy can be located in an area within range of the trap and trigger it. Imagine the surprise of an enemy when they come to deliver a coup-de-grace and three traps they came into range of all went off and killed them. :devil: The trap also might have a Visual trigger which could be equally effective. There are lots of ways to make an enemy enter the range of a trap. There are plenty of fighter types who do all of their fighting on the ground and are not flying around. The key is designing traps and events that will put an enemy in jeopardy. Vryk's long-term plan is to do just that! Hopefully the idea will work effectively. That is what the CoCo is all about though, to test builds. Maybe it will be a bust but perhaps it will be a great idea that needed time to materialize. I don't know yet but I look forward to the time when I can afford the resources to build the kinds of traps I want Vryk to use.
SnarkHunter 05-16-04, 12:04 AM	SO long as you list exactly what traps you have and what they do I don't have a problem with crafting them. Seems You'd have to be fairly strong to carry them all though...
Caterane 05-16-04, 05:57 AM	I like Rayne`s idea. He`s right about traps beeing the rogues best friend. I would see a trap as a companion. Ixidor camps beside his hydra and so the rogue camps beside his traps. That way, he may engage in a ranged duell because the fighter doesn`t dare to approach. Fights against Rogues would look much differently. Instead of "charge the weak rogue" fighters/wizards would write "don`t approach him". I think this might promote rogue playing. As it is now only sneaker rogues would have a chance but that`s a kind of game few want to play, and even fewer to moderate. Perhaps we might indeed create a rule that one may prepare the battle field. This would enable us not only to create traps but also magical traps and triggers like Glyphs or Forbiddance spells, Dimensional anchors, etc. Of course the minimum duration of 16 hours has to be fulfilled. The trap has to be mentioned in the prebuffs section but the exact location needs only be mentioned in the tactics. Sounds like new options are calling :) Any suggestions?
Beldin 05-16-04, 06:09 AM	just read through the commitee thread. Great storytelling!
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-16-04, 07:19 AM	Well, I already suggested a rule that you cannot "prepare" a trap into a location where it could instalty go off when figth starts. I suggested that all traps must be deployed 30'f away from the gladiators (and if they have longer effective range, then farther ;)). I alos suggested that if somebody uses traps, the amount of traps what can be prepared is limited by CR of the traps. This shows how difficult certain traps are to prepare just before the match. Also we could balance the thing whit a "bribe the arena manager" cost. Like you need ALWAYS pay 50gp to the arena manager each time when you want to prepare traps for next match. This limits the times when gladiator is using traps, this would make trap using VERY expensive habit and not neccesarily uselfull (if gladiator does not step onto the trap or manages to dodge it). Besides, who had sayed the gladiator figths should be fair? Already the craftin (poison) is allowed and poisoning weapons is nothing strange to expect from assasin/blackguard, so why traps are frowned upon? I agreed waht Rayne mentioned about "paper, sciccor and rock" rule, that was why I started the whole question about why traps are not allowed. Besides, is it not more realistic that any class whit no search, spot as class skill take few ranks in those skills in case if they face traps (not just for sneaky characthers)?
MotherBast 05-16-04, 08:13 AM	If you think I misspell a lot, (and I do), just check out my friend Boldrift's posts sometimes. That guy is thrice as bad as I. Cat, if you could hammer out some rules for traps to review, the elders could probably do a quick vote on the issue. I for one, would have no problem with traps as long as they had clearcut rules that prevented them from winning a fight before it even started, like creating them on every square around the foes starting position. I think also that starting positions should be random, so that a person couldn't say "start me in position A, behind the wall of traps I built."
Jindl 05-16-04, 09:16 AM	Re: Dusk vs Aemon and Boldrift Mattock vs Tanya: Would all involved parties please read my most recent post on the Fights of the Week thread. -Jindl
Beldin 05-16-04, 10:43 AM	i'd be happy if Magagumo would change that;) , its up to him. what has someone to do to become an Elder Pitlord of the senate? As i see it Mercy and Snarkhunter are the only pitlords remaining of the arena's founding-time, but the aren't in the senate.
Alterlat 05-16-04, 10:50 AM	Originally posted by Beldin what has someone to do to become an Elder Pitlord of the senate? As i see it Mercy and Snarkhunter are the only pitlords remaining of the arena's founding-time, but the aren't in the senate. It's all part of Cat's plan to knock off the Elders one by one until wields ultimate power. Can't you hear the evil laughter...?
Jindl 05-16-04, 11:12 AM	Being an Elder requires a few things. Some are listed below (this is not a comprehensive list): 1. Substantial experience on this board. 2. A solid grasp of the rules. 3. Willingless to invest your own time to perform the duties of an Elder. The Elder's are selected by the Game Masters, as part of our responsibilities in running the game. Please note that the Game Masters are volunteers selected by Moherajikuyx and empowered by the Wizo's to run the game and this board. We are resposible for implementing the rules of the game and administrating the game itself. We do not handle code of conduct, software, or other issues outside of the running of the game. Feel free to contact me if you are interested in contributing to running the game. We are always looking for help, especially in conducting character audits (thanks to both ^Rayne^ and Myrridin for their recent efforts). This is a potential method to gain additional credits without pitlording fights. BTW: Jindl started on this board approximately 3 weeks after Snarkhunter. Magagumo, Caterane, Tellish, and MotherBast all came on board a few weeks to a month later. -Jindl
^Rayne^ 05-16-04, 01:13 PM	I like Rayne`s idea. He`s right about traps beeing the rogues best friend. I would see a trap as a companion. Ixidor camps beside his hydra and so the rogue camps beside his traps. That way, he may engage in a ranged duell because the fighter doesn`t dare to approach. Fights against Rogues would look much differently. Instead of "charge the weak rogue" fighters/wizards would write "don`t approach him". I think this might promote rogue playing. As it is now only sneaker rogues would have a chance but that`s a kind of game few want to play, and even fewer to moderate. Perhaps we might indeed create a rule that one may prepare the battle field. This would enable us not only to create traps but also magical traps and triggers like Glyphs or Forbiddance spells, Dimensional anchors, etc. Of course the minimum duration of 16 hours has to be fulfilled. The trap has to be mentioned in the prebuffs section but the exact location needs only be mentioned in the tactics. Sounds like new options are calling Any suggestions? Thanks Caterane for the kind support. I thought initially that it would only be appropriate if the trap maker created snares they could carry into the arena at the time of battle. However I saw SnarkHunter's comment about weight and I wondered how much these things actually weigh. I went to the DM manual and looked around and there was only mention that a snare was the most rudimentary of traps. There was no listing for the creation of Snares (of any CR rating), no information about creating portable traps, the number of rounds needed to set up one, and most importantly the weight of such a trap if it was created. This leads me to being in favor of the kind of pre-buffs section that Caterane has suggested. I agree with Kazzaroth Pan'theon that traps can't be setup in a 5' radius around the starting point of the enemies starting position. That would not be a fair use of this trap laying ability. I do think something like the 30' radius idea sounds more likely or maybe even a little farther like a 50' radius around both starting positions. That way the areas around starting positions can't be exploited as hazard zones with no way to leave. This would promote a whole level of strategy for the clever trap maker though and it would make arena matches much more interesting. Imagine a gladiator knowing they are in an arena full of traps verses a trapmaker. They would spend more rounds watching the trapmaker's moves trying to figure out where the safe areas were. They would respect the Rogue more and it would promote the Rogue class more. I agree traps should work as they are intended to work for the 16 hour minimum (I think most of them do). I suggest that for example if a trapmaker has successfully paid the full cost of a concealed Pit trap with spikes or something like this they should be allowed to take this same trap and its expense (along with any repairs made between matches) and move it to new locations they specify before any new match in their prebuffs. Combatants could look at the trapmakers sheet and know exactly what types of traps they have at their disposal, the CR of said trap, the Search DC and damage potential. The key is they won't know where the trap will be used in the arena because that is left for tactics. I suggest all created traps should have their complete description listed in the Pre-buffs section of a PC's character sheet as they work more as Pre-buffs. Their expense should be listed in their Equipment section along with the name of the traps used. Personally I think it would be very exciting to see some matches become something more akin to running the Gauntlet. The addition of traps would add new energy to the story potential and also test builds much more effectively than the current system does. I am not an Elder and I leave balance issues to this great group of players. I do believe that Traps are an essential piece of the D&D balance system that can't be removed without weakening classes and strengthening others unfairly. I hope that we begin to see a lot more streamlined rules for using traps in the arena.
barrel_master 05-16-04, 01:39 PM	I don't understand. Why isn't Snarkhunter one of the 'elder' mods?
Magagumo 05-16-04, 02:05 PM	There was a restructuring of the Elder MOD system to reflect a smaller group of individuals, most of which contribute a great deal of their time to the inner workings of the CoCo. Snark and I are no longer Elder Mods, but rest assured that we will continue to heavily voice our own opinions on things ;) :P Edit: Thank you for the reference, Jindl, as I actually believe Ander (Zorander's younger and less proficient brother) was posted before Jindl of the High Forest. Just my pride I suppose, but I've been here quite awhile as well :) "You young whippersnappers might not recall.... *dozes off*" Edit2: Fight results changed, minor change to end of story. Enjoy.
Arstimis 05-16-04, 03:05 PM	I havent looked into it much, but my first impression of traps is that you shouldnt be able to prebuff them in the arena. that is giving to much of an advantage to the rogue, to walk into the arena ahead of time and possibly surround the opponents spot with traps. I am all up for traps, but i would have to say they could be made ahead of time as a prebuff, but can only be set up and placed in the arena during the fight.
Limit 05-16-04, 03:22 PM	What happens if your strength is reduced to a point where your equipment weighs more then your heavy load?
Kaigan 05-16-04, 03:24 PM	Posted fight: Kazeira vs. Brock. Hope not too many mistakes
freemoody 05-16-04, 03:41 PM	@Jindl: I'd like to volunteer to run one fight a week. PM was also sent with my E-Mail address.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-16-04, 04:04 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan Posted fight: Kazeira vs. Brock. Hope not too many mistakes Nice story, too bad that I losted tough. But if the issue about trapping is decided before next wednesday, can you re-do the match and this time add the traps? Also is not mounting off the horse (in my threatened square) counted as action wich provokes a AoO (and can you charge from a horse and then issue a grapple)?
kattattack22 05-16-04, 04:26 PM	Ony Akerr has been set ready for next pairings. I would like to begin pitlording fights so I may run both Ony and Arkin.
Kaigan 05-16-04, 04:57 PM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Nice story, too bad that I losted tough. But if the issue about trapping is decided before next wednesday, can you re-do the match and this time add the traps? Also is not mounting off the horse (in my threatened square) counted as action wich provokes a AoO (and can you charge from a horse and then issue a grapple)? Please see tavern for response.
Tellish_of_Ket 05-16-04, 05:00 PM	Originally posted by Limit What happens if your strength is reduced to a point where your equipment weighs more then your heavy load? You become then limited to only partial actions (one action) and cannot perform a 5' step. -ToK
Limit 05-16-04, 07:14 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket You become then limited to only partial actions (one action) and cannot perform a 5' step. -ToK Thanks ToK, but it didn't actually come up. Fight Posted: Zorander vs Peter (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?perpage=1&s=&postid=3438501#post3438501)
Battousai2005 05-16-04, 07:30 PM	Irwin vs. Pard up
barrel_master 05-17-04, 01:04 AM	Give me NO fights next week... big fat 0 please.
Caterane 05-17-04, 03:36 AM	@US-er: If someone writes a room is 12x10 -> which unit is this? Is this big?
Arstimis 05-17-04, 04:17 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @US-er: If someone writes a room is 12x10 -> which unit is this? Is this big? its in feet. a foot is about 1/3 of a meter. when theys say 12X10, the mean its 12ft long and 10 ft wide. so for people using the metric system that would be about 4 meters by 3 meters
Hatzinger 05-17-04, 04:59 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @US-er: If someone writes a room is 12x10 -> which unit is this? Is this big? perhaps he´s talking about yards? or the-distance-between-"ye-olde-bakery"-and-marketplace, divided by the number of chickens in iowa? (hehehe. yes, i am a metric man)
Myrridin 05-17-04, 08:27 AM	Tactics were never received for Smergel, so I'm running with the default tactics for him.
Jindl 05-17-04, 08:59 AM	Originally posted by Magagumo Edit: Thank you for the reference, Jindl, as I actually believe Ander (Zorander's younger and less proficient brother) was posted before Jindl of the High Forest. Just my pride I suppose, but I've been here quite awhile as well :) "You young whippersnappers might not recall.... *dozes off*" Actually, Jindl of the High Forest beat you by a couple of days. But we both had our first matches during the same week of pairings. As a matter of fact, Ander's first match was against my character, Glorfindel (an elven archer). Ander won that match, iirc. Back on the old discussion thread, I think I started posting about a week before you did, Mag. But given that it was more than a year ago, what difference is a week? You did arrive before Caterane or Tellish. But something I hope everyone understands is that Elder status is not determined by who was here first. Experience is an important factor (as I stated in my post above), but other factors are more important, such as amount of time dedicated to the board, etc. There is another change occurring with the Elders (in addition to the change in the personel). Each Elder is now going to have a project that they work on / oversee. For example: My project is the running of the Roster / Pairings. Cat runs the Elder forum, polls, and guilds. Tellish runs all the audits. Ethendril is working on the World Building thread. And MotherBast's project will be decided upon over the next few days. This extra effort is going to be part of the responsibility of the Elders. I don't want a group of Elders who vote on major issues, yet have little time invested in the creation / running of the game itself. Elder's should have to contribute to the game so that they earn their vote. -Jindl
Pitlords 05-17-04, 09:57 AM	@freemoody - PM was recieved, you have been added as a pitlord to receive ONE fight a week. @kattattack22 - Ony has been moved back to the active list. Please PM me with your email address and then number of fights you request (one, two, even, etc.) so that I may add you as a pitlord. @barrel_master - Number of fights has been set to zero (temporarily, I hope). -Jindl
Myrridin 05-17-04, 09:59 AM	My last fight is up. Very quick, not surprising since someone had default tactics used. Smergel vs Rhoar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3443008#post3443008)
Jindl 05-17-04, 01:43 PM	Kage vs Sven is posted. -Jindl
Caterane 05-17-04, 02:24 PM	Bah! I hate criticals. Mostly because they always happen to me, but I also hate to see a formidable gladiator as Sven lose becaue of a critical hit. My main problem is that if someone would win 19 out of 20 fights but unfortunately the single fight he lost is the one fought in the arena, this is really sucky. Same goes for lucky rolls in general. If there would be a vote to get away with criticals I`m not sure if I wouldn`t vote yes...
Jindl 05-17-04, 02:29 PM	I don't like them either, especially since I usually have bad luck following my characters too. But they are a part of the core rules, and I like house-ruling stuff even less than I like criticals. So, criticals exist. Perhaps you and I should buy some Fortification armor? -Jindl
Caterane 05-17-04, 02:34 PM	But Jindl, a fortification armor up to 99% is still useless to me :rolleyes:
Magagumo 05-17-04, 02:45 PM	Don't forget, crits may happen on the 20 in this case, but there are builds based around critting often (Improved Critcal [scimitar] for instance) ;). Besides, the critical didn't kill Sven, and Bear's Endurance would have given him 1-2 more rounds at most. Kage hits hard and well, Sven had low AC and didn't account for a flying archer (he assumed Kage would be pursuing him or flying low). I'm pleased to see one of the few straight fighters (an honest rarity with all these 2nd level barbarians *rolls eyes :P*) doing well. Besides, unless Donkey crits you, the total damage won't kill you instantly, and even his hits have become survivable by 11th level. :)
Ethendril 05-17-04, 02:59 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Bah! I hate criticals. I guess Harvester should sell that keen weapon soon...
Ethendril 05-17-04, 04:25 PM	Heinrich vs. Cliodhna has been posted. Let me know if there are errors.
Caterane 05-17-04, 04:42 PM	@Ethendril: Wow! Great story. I loved it!! That`s a complete new hook-up for a conintuing story. I would love to read the sequel. I also liked Kaigan`s Brock vs Kazeira very much. Keep up the good storywriting guys!! Edit: Prof.Dre'Dandrahl is challenging Clio, and I request Ethendril as a mod so that he may continue with the story. I hope both LL and Eth agree.
Tellish_of_Ket 05-17-04, 04:58 PM	replying for Market: He did anticipate the flying archer, when he said to take full cover and cast, he assumed he was going to be dismounted first. He didn't specify and (as he did in his previous couple of fights) and this time it went awry and lost on miswording his tactics. We all learn. But i have to agree with Cat, what timing on those criticals. sheesh. lol OH well. Back to the drawing board for him i guess. Anyhow, i've levelled both Kelek and Brock. I'll be running my fight tonight. -ToK
Jindl 05-17-04, 04:59 PM	Maybe he should just change his name to Phiffen Wun. :heehee I don't really think it would have made much difference if it weren't a critical. Kage's interrupting flying archer tactics were quite successful. Just another reason why every caster should have a potion of invisibility (try and interrupt that!) -Jindl
Caterane 05-17-04, 05:04 PM	@Jindl: Just a reminder: if you run a fight, there`s no need to use the weighed dice that you use in your gaming group
Jindl 05-17-04, 05:07 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Jindl: Just a reminder: if you run a fight, there`s no need to use the weighed dice that you use in your gaming group I use the online dice roller at the WoTC website. If its weighted, you can take it up with them. -Jindl
Ethendril 05-17-04, 05:07 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Ethendril: Wow! Great story. I loved it!! That`s a complete new hook-up for a conintuing story. I would love to read the sequel. Thanks for the compliment, Cat. Praise for good stories is rare around here as we focus on errors in the fights, so I appreciate the kind words. I'd be happy to continue my story on this fight or my story in the High Forest. EDIT: @Kaigan...challenge in the RP thread for Matei.
freemoody 05-17-04, 06:41 PM	@ Kedi: Please check the Fights of the week thread in reguard to the Boldrift vs. Tanya fight. As was noted there. When Boldrift drops Tanya to 0 in round 3 she is disabled. That means she can only make either a move action or a standard action each turn. Not Both. So Tanya can't heal herself in round three and Boldrift drops her in round four. Also, you can't make full-round actions (like the sleep spell) while disabled Sorry Tanya but Lillith really wants to challenge Boldrift this week.
Arstimis 05-17-04, 07:43 PM	Zephin vs Attila is done. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3447539#post3447539) hope not too many mistakes.. still waiting on Zaphod's fight vs Jo'Li...though im not expecting to really win
Hatzinger 05-17-04, 08:00 PM	Heinrich would like to have a monster fight. He wants to go hunting for a Storm Giant.
Tellish_of_Ket 05-17-04, 08:34 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis still waiting on Zaphod's fight vs Jo'Li...though im not expecting to really win One is only rewarded by the amount of effort one puts into their tactics. <snickers> Jo'Li vs Zaphod done.
Tellish_of_Ket 05-17-04, 08:37 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Maybe he should just change his name to Phiffen Wun. :heehee I don't really think it would have made much difference if it weren't a critical. Kage's interrupting flying archer tactics were quite successful. Just another reason why every caster should have a potion of invisibility (try and interrupt that!) -Jindl Now that is funny. Maybe i'll rename Hurtz for his starting record. Owen Fhur. -ToK
kattattack22 05-17-04, 09:10 PM	Sent information to Pitlords account via PM. Sorry it took so long would have done it sooner, but since I hooked my computer back at my parent's house it crashes everytime I try to do something instead of when I try to do too much.
Battousai2005 05-17-04, 09:33 PM	You know, Arti pointed some things out that I think we need to take into account. 1. 1 use items: Jo'li having an endless supply of animals hardly seems fair. Druids exist for a reason... 2. Anyone else notice how re-matches are becoming more common? Tell me honestly: how much differece is in 2 levels? A new spell level? Whoop de stinking doo. (note the sarcasm) Give me a break. Enilias was paired vs Drak'whatever 3 times. 2 were less than a month between. I was paired vs Heinrich twice, and now Zaphod vs Jo'li, again in less than a month. It says that efforts are made to avoid re-matches, but this doesn't seem to be happening. 3. @Arti: Zaphod is hardly useless, just a bit off. I think that that one idea you had making him a barb. might pay off.
Battousai2005 05-17-04, 10:16 PM	Aiki Auk vs. The Voiceless can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3449305#post3449305)
^Rayne^ 05-17-04, 10:35 PM	Battousai2005, thanks for running the fight. As to your question about why Aiki Auk isn't Lawful/Good. It is sort of in his bio. He doesn't really have a master. He isn't Ronin either because he didn't choose this path to be masterless. He was trained by Samurai as in their arts to make him appreciate their culture and grow spiritually. Aiki Auk accepted the training and learned a great deal from the experience. However his beliefs and the way he was raised have led him down a slightly different path. His belief is to uphold the priciples and honor of the Samurai. In essense his master is the principles of the Samurai art. It is sort of strange to describe but because of this he is not Lawful/Good. As for his method of killing himself, he would choose the more painful of course. ;) I have to say I am shocked by the outcome. I was not expecting it to end like this. I kept waiting for things to go very bad very fast.
kattattack22 05-17-04, 10:58 PM	Ony Akerr Challenges Rhoar! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3449691#post3449691)
Mercy 05-17-04, 11:15 PM	@Jindl - I won't be able to "pitlord" any fights this week (19/5). I'll still have Jo'Li fight though. I'll wait until the "wait" is removed before I update him. If the "wait" is not updated in about 12 hours I'll go ahead and update him.
barrel_master 05-18-04, 12:25 AM	This fight took me much longer then I thought it would. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3450452#post3450452 I wonder if I got anything wrong.
daemones 05-18-04, 12:30 AM	Ernie vs Felis is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3450428#post3450428). Please let me know what the problems are. Thanks!
Boldrift-Mattock 05-18-04, 12:31 AM	Please post your respose to weather or not I won the fight before it is too late. If your going to OR not going to change it is fine with me but I would like to get my character ready for this weeks fights. Thank you Boldrift Mattock
Sindorin 05-18-04, 01:02 AM	Waiting for fight to be posted so I too can edit my sheet... thanks...
Myrridin 05-18-04, 08:22 AM	Arti: You might think about potions of Protection from Good/Law/whatever. I've had Zephin lose to summoned creatures before, and it's easy to prevent with those potions, and I believe they're 50gp. If it gets dispelled, quaff another one. Then the only thing that can reach you is Skooter, as he's not summoned.
Hatzinger 05-18-04, 08:46 AM	... or drink a potion of fly. most summoned creatures that are not earth-bound are crappy attackers, compared to your level. ... or just interrupt his casting. summoning takes a full-round action, so even your normal attacks will disturb him. (if you know how to handle a bow/wand'o'fireballs) ... or hide when buffing. the scent ability is not so phat as most ppl think.
Arstimis 05-18-04, 09:45 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Arti: You might think about potions of Protection from Good/Law/whatever. I've had Zephin lose to summoned creatures before, and it's easy to prevent with those potions, and I believe they're 50gp. If it gets dispelled, quaff another one. Then the only thing that can reach you is Skooter, as he's not summoned. Neither of the creatures were "summoned" creatures. So it would not help. I did have potions ready for any summoned creatures Originally posted by Hatzinger ... or drink a potion of fly. most summoned creatures that are not earth-bound are crappy attackers, compared to your level. ... or just interrupt his casting. summoning takes a full-round action, so even your normal attacks will disturb him. (if you know how to handle a bow/wand'o'fireballs) ... or hide when buffing. the scent ability is not so phat as most ppl think. even if i wasted money on a potion of fly it would suck cause i have a horrible ranged attack that would be worthless. then i would have to come down and would be surrounded by a rhino, a wolf, and then summons. All those are great ideas, but completely useless for my character Zaphod. take a look at him, you will realize he can do none of it. I'm still waiting for anyone that can give me any reason or insight as to how Zaphod has any chance in the Arena
Beldin 05-18-04, 09:50 AM	then try hide from animals, i think it works against the bag, the animal companion and against the summoned animals (not against magical beasts or elementals, but then the pro law would help)
Caterane 05-18-04, 09:50 AM	Question: Can I fight 2 monsters at once in one monster fight to get them both? Saves time and credits. We have no specific rules about this. How about it?
Arstimis 05-18-04, 09:52 AM	Originally posted by Beldin then try hide from animals, i think it works against the bag, the animal companion and against the summoned animals (not against magical beasts or elementals, but then the pro law would help) Good idea, but what..i get 1 attack on a caster before i am surrounded by the animals again. Or he goes invis, and of course since his caster level is higher, guess who's invis wears off first, and the fact that i am not invis to him at all doesnt help.... good thinking, but it wouldnt help
Arstimis 05-18-04, 09:56 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Question: Can I fight 2 monsters at once in one monster fight to get them both? Saves time and credits. We have no specific rules about this. How about it? I really dont think so Cat. Its like asking to fight 2 gladiators, so you can level faster and get more gold, rather than waiting another week
Caterane 05-18-04, 09:57 AM	@Arty: Zaphod is ok but your tactics are horrible. If you face someone where you know he pulls out some nasty animal, and has an animal companion, then just drink a potion of hide from animals and fly up. Your Ac is higher. I`ve sent you a level progression sheet some time ago, including which items to buy and so on. If you compare Zaphod with other Gladiators at these levels he looks really good. Give him a few levels to develop. LA races are tougher to play at the early levels. If you retire him I`ll make one myself some day - and you`ll regret having him retired; I promise you! About multiple monsters: Well, you`re right of course. I could shoot half the zoo from above without risking anything.
Arstimis 05-18-04, 10:10 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @Arty: Zaphod is ok but your tactics are horrible. If you face someone where you know he pulls out some nasty animal, and has an animal companion, then just drink a potion of hide from animals and fly up. Your Ac is higher. I`ve sent you a level progression sheet some time ago, including which items to buy and so on. If you compare Zaphod with other Gladiators at these levels he looks really good. Give him a few levels to develop. LA races are tougher to play at the early levels. If you retire him I`ll make one myself some day - and you`ll regret having him retired; I promise you! About multiple monsters: Well, you`re right of course. I could shoot half the zoo from above without risking anything. My tactics are horrible because there is no hope. Ok, i get a potion of fly, and a potion of hide from animals. My opponent doesnt even need to waste time flying, he just shoots at me with his better ranged attacks. or his ranged touch attacks against my AC of 9. NO HOPE If i compare Zaphod with other meleers he is very very good, but have you seen at his touch AC in a while....9! Come on what flying invisible caster wont screw me over So basically you are saying i need to just let him bump for about 3 levels or so. or if i actually get to fight a meleer i have a chance to win. and this has only happened once, and it was against a meleer with good ranged attacks, and a horse. and my first fight easily won. it is impossible to shoot and kill all those animals without risk taking. The many rounds i attempt to shoot them with my horrible ranged attack, he is killing me with ranged touch attack spells, or just his ranged touch attacks Best case scenerio is i have hide from animals and a potion of fly. Guess what, my caster opponent has invis, with a longer duration than my fly, so guess who gets screwed. oh..ya and a potion of fly costs 750, a pretty big waste for something so useless against a caster If you really could have thought of any tactics against both times i fought Jo'Li, or for the time i fought Arkin, please tell me. Cause i sure see no hope
LLMadCow 05-18-04, 10:11 AM	Take note, Dark Lords of the Pit, that the aspiring Bard LLMadCow has returned to the great city of Gladius! He wishes to bear witness to the fights within the Arena and share the exciting tales of glory and honor, bravery and horror, agility and strength (And the occassional humor and merriment)! Of particular interest is the famed MONSTER fights! Man against beast in a test of skill and sword! Please be sure to include him in your Bardic Assignment Roster for the next week. Also, Clìodhna d'Elrich is aware that Prof.Dre'Dandrahl has challenged her. She has conferred with her good friend Herrix, Ignatius - not the horse, and accepts the challenge, noting that she thinks she has a chance at winning the battle. Herrix mentioned something about achilles heel and swarm of bats...
Limit 05-18-04, 10:16 AM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ I have to say I am shocked by the outcome. I was not expecting it to end like this. I kept waiting for things to go very bad very fast. I wasn't too suprised: Originally posted by Battousai2005 @Limit: Actually, my dice hate everyone that isn't a person with an obvious advatage. I really think it strange./ :rofl: But seriously, good fight. Good tactics Rayne. You are lawful evil. I think that mangaling his body would be more appropriate, don't you? No, I don't see any reason why lawful evil = mangling, thanks :)
LLMadCow 05-18-04, 10:20 AM	Originally posted by Arstimis My tactics are horrible because there is no hope. Ok, i get a potion of fly, and a potion of hide from animals. My opponent doesnt even need to waste time flying, he just shoots at me with his better ranged attacks. or his ranged touch attacks against my AC of 9. NO HOPE Okay, I must ask - do you have a character progression mapped out? Do you have a fun and entertainging character that you love? If so, run with it. Wanna know a feeling of no hope? Go check out Cliodhna. She has almost no hope. Her last win was by default and she has lost the last four battles in a row! I cry. She is a wonderful character, complex and rich in story and background. She has a small number of fans, and that is why I returned to the arena with her first. I do not know if anyone else is playing a Mystic Theurge, but is is very chalenging. Try it some time... Edit: I personally think no one should be allowed to declare the situation hopeless until they are about to tie the record of Rito Maya. Stop there - no need to take the title of 'Most Losses' from Mo.
Arstimis 05-18-04, 10:27 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow Okay, I must ask - do you have a character progression mapped out? If so, run with it. Wanna know a feeling of no hope? Go check out Cliodhna. she has almost no hope. Her last win was by default and she has lost the last four battles in a row! I cry. She is a wonderful character, complex and rich in story and background. She has a small number of fans, and that is why I returned to the arena with her first. I do not know if anyone else is playing a Mystic Theurge, but is is very chalenging. Try it some time... Yes, there is one. I respect that you bring her back in. I keep Zaphod in for the same reasons, but the thing is i want to try a new character. and i want to see if Kiowen can do any better with his allie, but i dont have enough time to mod 2 fights, as my senior year is nearing an end, and there is alot to be done All i really want to know is if anyone really thinks Zaphod can win in a world of casters...is there any hope...i dont think so
Arstimis 05-18-04, 10:27 AM	Since this was a double post I will repond to your edit. I think a character like pard has no hope. Zaphod is 1 and 4, that's pretty much nearing no hope. I've come to the conclusion that the only fighters with good ranged attacks and/or luck can survive in the arena. Zaphod has neither
LLMadCow 05-18-04, 10:43 AM	Originally posted by Arstimis Yes, there is one. How is he/she fairing? And who is it, I wish to compare and follow. Originally posted by Arstimis I respect that you bring her back in. I keep Zaphod in for the same reasons, but the thing is i want to try a new character. and i want to see if Kiowen can do any better with his allie, but i dont have enough time to mod 2 fights, as my senior year is nearing an end, and there is alot to be done I would still keep that character. I have Allister Swiftfoot, Cliodhna d'Elrich and Herrix Ignatius. There is no rule that all characters have to be active any given week. Bring them in from time to time. I plan on keeping Cliodhna active until she manages to advance another level. So, this could be until her next bump or, if the gods are willing, her next win. We shall see! Originally posted by Arstimis All i really want to know is if anyone really thinks Zaphod can win in a world of casters...is there any hope...i dont think so Bah. Even if he cannot win right now, he might be able to later. Do some very careful planning and save some GP. Bump as needed and try some scare tactics. :) Originally posted by Arstimis oh..and Zaphod just lost his 4th in a row Congratulations! :D Maybe we can have a race to see who actually manages to WIN a battle. :cool:
Hatzinger 05-18-04, 10:54 AM	Arti, you mentioned ranged characters killing you... You DO know that you can frustrate every archer with a simple tower shield for 30gp, do you? And against, mages: Throw your armor away, you won´t use it anyway and will be faster without. Find a way to get close to them, fast. Watch them tremble in fear. A mage who hasn´t time to buff is a dead mage.
Arstimis 05-18-04, 11:07 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow How is he/she fairing? And who is it, I wish to compare and follow. I was refering to zaphod's character progression. Yes it looks very very good, in an arena for melee. It might be ok against casters later...but I don't think so.. If you wanted to see the progression, I could email it to you as an excel file when I get home later I would still keep that character. I have Allister Swiftfoot, Cliodhna d'Elrich and Herrix Ignatius. There is no rule that all characters have to be active any given week. Bring them in from time to time. I plan on keeping Cliodhna active until she manages to advance another level. So, this could be until her next bump or, if the gods are willing, her next win. We shall see! ya, I will probably bring in my bard, who I hope fares better. It should....it might be ready for this week. Bah. Even if he cannot win right now, he might be able to later. Do some very careful planning and save some GP. Bump as needed and try some scare tactics. :) Congratulations! :D Maybe we can have a race to see who actually manages to WIN a battle. :cool: dang you and your cheery attitude that makes me decide to keep zaphod in as a alternate
Arstimis 05-18-04, 11:13 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger Arti, you mentioned ranged characters killing you... You DO know that you can frustrate every archer with a simple tower shield for 30gp, do you? And against, mages: Throw your armor away, you won´t use it anyway and will be faster without. Find a way to get close to them, fast. Watch them tremble in fear. A mage who hasn´t time to buff is a dead mage. thanks for the ideas hatzinger. I was about to reply saying it would take to long to remove, but then realized I could start without it. I will these ideas into consideration
Pittbull 05-18-04, 11:17 AM	@Arti: Just look at Angosh, he has the same problems, but won't give up. Sometimes it's a little bit frustrating, sometimes it's expensive (damned potions), but remember, melee makes men out of boys! @Cat: Please don't forget to bump Angosh.
Caterane 05-18-04, 11:27 AM	@Arty: There`s a simple solution: challenge fighters, then buy equipment against mages. @Pitbull: first you go voting! :)
barrel_master 05-18-04, 11:32 AM	I have a question regarding the definition of 'Advanced cover'. What would you define as 'advanced cover' and in what situations would it be used? Would it be used to, say, give a reflex save against a flame strike when the flame strike is from above? Is advance cover simply any type of cover? I ask because the SRD seems a little unclear and we should have some sort of rules (or some way to define it) for it in the arena.
Pittbull 05-18-04, 11:47 AM	@Cat: Mission complete - Voted! @All Jindlers: It's crazy or perhaps absolutely stupid idea: Just brainstorming: Angosh takes leadership, calls a cohort, who has the ride skill and mounted combat and buys an exotic saddle. Is the cohort allowed to use Angosh as his mount, with all the consequences like denying damage with mounted combat. I found nothing that the mount has to be an animal or beast. The final idea would be having an evil, crazy, little gnomewizard on your back, sitting in a special cage ( the exotic saddle), where he can't be hit by physical attacks, like arrows or other weapons. Of course he has mounted combat and reigns to warn Angosh of incoming damages.
Hatzinger 05-18-04, 12:00 PM	... that is the most SICK idea i have ever heard... i like it. :D And i can´t find a rule against it. Although i think that was never thoughted of when the rules were created.
barrel_master 05-18-04, 12:02 PM	Originally posted by Pittbull @Cat: Mission complete - Voted! @All Jindlers: It's crazy or perhaps absolutely stupid idea: Just brainstorming: Angosh takes leadership, calls a cohort, who has the ride skill and mounted combat and buys an exotic saddle. Is the cohort allowed to use Angosh as his mount, with all the consequences like denying damage with mounted combat. I found nothing that the mount has to be an animal or beast. The final idea would be having an evil, crazy, little gnomewizard on your back, sitting in a special cage ( the exotic saddle), where he can't be hit by physical attacks, like arrows or other weapons. Of course he has mounted combat and reigns to warn Angosh of incoming damages. Ha ha... I like the way you think although I dissagree with the term 'Jindlers'. As for the mount... I'm currently serarching for it, and although the reference may be vauge, it says something like 'a mount must be willing and be able to carry you' then it gives an example of a hill giant 'a hill giant may be willing to carry you it is not able to carry you'. As such you may not be able to get a thing that rides you.
Magagumo 05-18-04, 12:07 PM	Potentially, I've heard such an idea could work. It does involve a -4 or -5 (can't req this moment) to the character's check due to Angosh being an unusual mount. But if he's large and you've got a small creature (sicne Angosh isn't a quadruped, probably best if there's two sizes different), I'd say this crazy idea could work. Personally, I vote halfling fighter for good dex, ranks in Ride, and the durability to also last the fight. Also rem that the halfling does not go invisible when you do :) @Arti Yea, summoner are pain, but that bag of tricks does summon creatures, doesn't it? It's funny, I completely forgot to drink a Protection potion in my fight vs. Peter ;) But I expected a dispel magic if that had happened. On another note, the vote looks to be 18 to 5, so it looks like Psionics are in :D. Based on this, I will be entering both of 2nd level combatants in this week (if Snark introduces his as well, and we have an odd number of fights, I will retract the giantess). Also, since it seems lvls 8 & 10 are even, I will be putting Tori and Zorander in as well. I request 2 fights, meaning I will have one negative credit to cancel out my current one. So yea, three or four glads in this week, I'm full of the Crazy :D One other note, Tori challenges Grimlock, since she has tussled with Angosh twice and Enilias once. @Jonah Let's test our chars out vs. someone new, aye? :D
Pittbull 05-18-04, 12:09 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master As such you may not be able to get a thing that rides you. Not even a realy crazy, realy evil gnome???:D
barrel_master 05-18-04, 12:22 PM	Originally posted by Pittbull Not even a realy crazy, realy evil gnome???:D NOw that I think of it there are MANY potential abuses of this... if the thing that was riding you had mounted combat and a good ride check you're AC could be (thoreticly) VERY VERY high.
Magagumo 05-18-04, 12:32 PM	Well, for one attack a round. And with Angosh's Leadership score (Cha 4 and all).. that little gnome/whatever isn't going to be very high level, making him an easy target.
Pittbull 05-18-04, 12:46 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Well, for one attack a round. And with Angosh's Leadership score (Cha 4 and all).. that little gnome/whatever isn't going to be very high level, making him an easy target. That's why, I was thinking about a cage to protect him. It's not necessary to get physical attack-options from him. But a caster being able to cast fly or throw fireballs might be nice.
Magagumo 05-18-04, 12:50 PM	Hmm, not sure if a cage will cut it.. ;) @kedi I see the super-dwarf wants to hunt a hydra, btu I don't see any Handle Animal ranks. You still have to train a beast to use it in the arena you know (Unless you bring it back from the dead ;)) Hmm, seems Grimlock hasn't been fully updated (and has sveral errors on hsi sheet). Unless this changes, I would rather have Tori not fight if she and Enilias aren't able to (if either of us rolls out, give the fight to Enilias and Angosh). I don't know about Pittbull, but I'm tired of our characters fighting each other, and I'd rather sit out than fight him again... its not a good test of our builds. What are your guys' thoughts?
Pitlords 05-18-04, 01:08 PM	General Announcements 1. Re: Boldrift Mattock, Boldrift-Mattock vs Tanya Araewen, TaggIIV: kedi - In kedi's absence, I have taken the action that everyone saw as obvious. It is clear that BM took Tanya to 0 hps in the fight, and then Tanya cast sleep (a full round action) to win. This is an obvious and apparent mistake, which has been widely commented on. Since kedi is absent, I will go ahead and make the change. Boldrift Mattock is considered the winner of the fight, advances a level, etc., etc. The roster will now reflect this. 2. Everyone please check their pitlording status, as I have gotten many requests recently to make changes. Please PM me if you want to make a change. 3. The Roster will be updated this afternoon. Please make sure you write "Ready for 5/19/04" in the subject line, and that you also include "Challenges ??" or "Accepts Challenge from ??" if you want to be in a challenge match. 4. Some concern has been raised about the policy on rematches. Multiple rematches are avoided, but given the limited number of players at a given level, they will still happen occasionally. The players are free to declare a "freeze" if they wish to hold all their PC's at a level and wait for more challengers to advance. 5. Re: Goznar the Magnificent, daemones vs Tair Malek, Sindorin: Aramil Dunskar - The fight is now late, and a late penalty will be applied to Aramil Dunskar. If the fight is not posted by tonight, then both characters will be unpaired and go back into the pool of 2nd level pc's. 6. Recently we have had at least one fight per week that has had this problem. In the future, if your fight is not posted on time, you will recieve a late penalty and you will be unable to pitlord for 2 weeks (which may limit you to only one PC for a couple of weeks). Apparently this is necessary to prevent players from missing out on fights because their pitlord was irresponsible. 7. @Elders - There is a discussion opening regarding the use of Advanced Cover in the arena. 8. FYI: There are rules in the DMG about what makes a suitable mount. Most PC's do not make suitable mounts (though a centaur or krenshar or other exotic race may be able to qualify). 9. Re: Psionics - Well, the outcome of the poll is likely to be "Yes". However, don't expect to be able to bring in your psionic characters this week, or even next week. We (the Elders) will open the door to psionics soon, but expect there to be something of a transition period. Hopefully the first pairings of psionic characters will occur around June 9th (in 3 weeks). Well, that's all for now. Please feel free to ask any questions! -Jindl
Arstimis 05-18-04, 01:11 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo @Arti Yea, summoner are pain, but that bag of tricks does summon creatures, doesn't it? It's funny, I completely forgot to drink a Protection potion in my fight vs. Peter ;) But I expected a dispel magic if that had happened. I'm not really sure about that Mercy made reference in his tactics to the bag not being summoned, and I thought the same thing. But if it is, that would have made life a lot easier against Jo'Li
Boldrift-Mattock 05-18-04, 02:55 PM	How mutch does one earn on reaching lvl 4? I am not around any of my books is the reason I bother this group.
Aramil Dunskar 05-18-04, 02:59 PM	I have an important announcement concerning my Pitlordship, I have realized that since it is nearing the end of my school year, the teachers have placed more work for me. So I am requesting that I will not have any matches to ref until I say so, so please change my thing back to even. I can also not ref this match sadly due to school, so I shall send the participants strats to one of the senior pitlords and they shall deal with it. I am still able to battle with Ernie though, for I found out that it takes less time to type up a strat then it does to type up a match. Sorry again. -AD
barrel_master 05-18-04, 03:06 PM	Originally posted by Boldrift-Mattock How mutch does one earn on reaching lvl 4? I am not around any of my books is the reason I bother this group. 2700 for finishing lvl 3 3600 for finishing lvl 4. That info can be found here http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190985 after the player listings.
Ethendril 05-18-04, 03:08 PM	Originally posted by Boldrift-Mattock How mutch does one earn on reaching lvl 4? I am not around any of my books is the reason I bother this group. In the gladiators thread, directly beneath all the gladiators and then the funny useless stats, is a post with how much you earn at each level.
Jindl 05-18-04, 03:26 PM	deleted
Boldrift-Mattock 05-18-04, 03:30 PM	Sorry about that last question, sometimes I just dont pay attion.
barrel_master 05-18-04, 03:34 PM	That's not a problem. @TELLISH: I want to try peter out again this week but I think that would knock you out at lvl 12... if you have your heart set on having your dude fight I'll find some other level to cause mischif.
Jindl 05-18-04, 03:42 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master @TELLISH: I want to try peter out again this week but I think that would knock you out at lvl 12... if you have your heart set on having your dude fight I'll find some other level to cause mischif. Not only that, but it would cause an instant rematch between Peter and Aku. I was actually hoping to have Aku match up against Kelek, especially since Kelek made such short work of the Pale-Rider. Let's see if he can do the same against the Shapeshifting Master of Darkness. Of course, if the Harvester or Ebelin were to become active, then we would have an even level again (and Aku and Kelek could do a challenge match...) -Jindl
Caterane 05-18-04, 03:47 PM	ACtually I don`t have time for so many gladiators, and I`d prefer Ixidor and Vandaeris for the moment. Writing tactics takes a lot of time, and since there are formidable foes I don`t want to fight with half-hearted tactics. Let me think about it. If one of them is listed as ok, then he fights.
barrel_master 05-18-04, 04:06 PM	Originally posted by Caterane ACtually I don`t have time for so many gladiators, and I`d prefer Ixidor and Vandaeris for the moment. Writing tactics takes a lot of time, and since there are formidable foes I don`t want to fight with half-hearted tactics. Let me think about it. If one of them is listed as ok, then he fights. That's okay, I'll wreak havoc on some other lvl.
barrel_master 05-18-04, 04:08 PM	was testing stuff.
Caterane 05-18-04, 04:09 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master: That's okay, I'll wreak havoc on some other lvl. But this time, please as a gladiator and not as a pitlord :P
barrel_master 05-18-04, 04:18 PM	Originally posted by Caterane But this time, please as a gladiator and not as a pitlord :P touché
barrel_master 05-18-04, 04:35 PM	This dude is ready to fight http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2727413#post2727413
Magagumo 05-18-04, 05:36 PM	Hmm, well if Psionics characters have not been approved for this week, I will instead challenge Paul Hector with Tori. Two fights please ;)
Caterane 05-18-04, 05:48 PM	@Jindl: You said you opened a discussion about cover. Where? And where again is the line about splash weapons needing a fullround action to be prepared? Why can`t I just throw them and they break on impact anyway?
KerlanRayne 05-18-04, 06:07 PM	Can you cast Spectral hand and have it move 40 ft away and stay there? Only under certain conditions does it hover besude you. Would it be a free action to order it to move if not casting a spell? KerlanRayne
SnarkHunter 05-18-04, 06:43 PM	nm, going to bed.
Battousai2005 05-18-04, 06:49 PM	question: Not about rules for once. I'm bored. I'd like to make a new char. Either way, I need creds, but I decided to throw this one up. Anyone want to see a nymph character? It was mostly for fun. I can think of a couple of other creatures to have lots of fun with (and less spending). So, choices. If anyone cares to respond, thanks. Max fights this week! Kage will be inactive and Akordia will challange Sarah. If not, then fate will decide. Well, I hope I can make a character soon.:schemes:
kattattack22 05-18-04, 07:42 PM	Posted by LLMadCow How is he/she fairing? And who is it, I wish to compare and follow. Arkin Jozil (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2835144#post2835144) is another Mystic Theruge or will be next level. Arkin hasn't been doing all that badly. He was undefeated until this last week. He will probably go MT/Clr/MT/Wiz/Wiz/MT/MT or something similar. Depends on when I could use that extra wizard feat but hopefully he will be something like Crl 4/Wiz 5/Mystic Theruge 4 at lv 13.
Alterlat 05-18-04, 08:21 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master That's not a problem. @TELLISH: I want to try peter out again this week but I think that would knock you out at lvl 12... if you have your heart set on having your dude fight I'll find some other level to cause mischif. @barrel_master: If you still want Peter to fight this week, I can make Jagath available. He's due for a bump up to 12th, but I haven't got around to taking it yet.
barrel_master 05-18-04, 09:08 PM	Originally posted by Alterlat @barrel_master: If you still want Peter to fight this week, I can make Jagath available. He's due for a bump up to 12th, but I haven't got around to taking it yet. Hummm... if you're up for it sure... I'll make ONLY peter active this week... if in the end... we end up odd I'll sit out.
Alterlat 05-18-04, 09:27 PM	I've updated Jagath and set him as challenging Peter. I'll PM Jindl about the bump.
barrel_master 05-18-04, 09:34 PM	I guess I'll accept.
Boldrift-Mattock 05-18-04, 10:06 PM	i just wanted to say that I accepted the challange from Lillith. I also changed some of the skills on my character sheet. Motherbast helped me plan a level by level advancement and I had some skills I had nver used. I hope no one minds, but he said we could do this as long as we never used the skills.
daemones 05-18-04, 10:13 PM	@Pitlords - I'm going to delete Goznar, I believe; If you would remove him from the roster I would be most grateful. Everything that I want to do with him has been done by the various mages before him, and he's not constructed to be a proper illusionist. I'll make another 2nd level character, certainly, probably a psion. I'll concentrate on Irwin in the mean time, as well. Thanks!
cellardweller 05-19-04, 12:35 AM	Originally posted by Pitlords 9. Re: Psionics - Well, the outcome of the poll is likely to be "Yes". However, don't expect to be able to bring in your psionic characters this week, or even next week. We (the Elders) will open the door to psionics soon, but expect there to be something of a transition period. Hopefully the first pairings of psionic characters will occur around June 9th (in 3 weeks). At let it forevermore be known as "The week of the Mind" - Carrion has moved into Catherine's room in the Temple of the Cellar Dweller.
LLMadCow 05-19-04, 01:17 AM	Originally posted by Caterane ACtually I don`t have time for so many gladiators, and I`d prefer Ixidor and Vandaeris for the moment. Writing tactics takes a lot of time, and since there are formidable foes I don`t want to fight with half-hearted tactics. Oh, but half hearted tactics are okay when fighting Cliodhna? I see how it is... :headexplo
Arstimis 05-19-04, 02:31 AM	Kiowen and Zaphod are posted ready, but I only want one of them fighting so I can get that 1 extra credit to pay for my new character. I will let the Pitlord choose who fights based on which one would make the level even. It seems like Zaphod will be fighting unless Grym gets readied. Edit: On second thought, have Kiowen sit out. I have already fought Grym once. So unless Grym wants a rematch, Zaphod will be my active character for this week.
LLMadCow 05-19-04, 03:29 AM	@All - Please take some time to read over my recently created thread Building Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3463090#post3463090) and let me know what you think. Changes can be made and I want as much input as people are wiling to give me.
KerlanRayne 05-19-04, 05:45 AM	New character, Cyric Tor. KerlanRayne
Caterane 05-19-04, 07:45 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow Oh, but half hearted tactics are okay when fighting Cliodhna? I see how it is... :headexplo Dear Brian, let`s say my current amount of time let`s me create 10 Tacticpoints (TP). Ixidor`s monster fight consumes 4 points, Clio another 6. A lvl 12 fight costs no less than 10 points, +50% vs a Jindl character. Another thing to consider is that I see Vandaeris more as fun; if he loses - a pity but that`s it. Now if the Harvester loses someone has to suffer, my roomies, the neighbors dog, etc About your thread: great work!! But why has Jindl a park and I ain`t?? Where`s Caterane`s Alley you promised!? :mad: Jindl Park (City Park) Jindl Park is located South-East of The Arena. It is bumping up against the training grounds. There is a vast forest and rumors abound that the forest is magical. People ooften get lost within the center of the forest, and some say it takes less time to walk all the way around the park than it does to walk through it. The true nature of the park may only be known to a few druids...
Jindl 05-19-04, 08:10 AM	@KerlanRayne - I don't think we are allowing the optional cultural weapons in the DMG. So you may have to switch from a Kusari-Gama to a regular Spiked Chain. -Jindl
Hatzinger 05-19-04, 08:33 AM	- Does a purple worm have a skeleton for the purpose of animating him when he is dead? (It doesn´t say no in his description) - Same question, but with a frost worm.
Jindl 05-19-04, 09:42 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger - Does a purple worm have a skeleton for the purpose of animating him when he is dead? (It doesn´t say no in his description) - Same question, but with a frost worm. Frost Worm's don't become corpses when they die, they explode. Purple worms don't have skeletons. -Jindl
Hatzinger 05-19-04, 10:19 AM	O.k., then i take an advanced (to 16HD) Dire Bear with elite array as my monster fight. And the evil Cleric for the casting of desecrate before the animation of the corpse has been fired now.
Arstimis 05-19-04, 10:21 AM	Sorry about the additional change to my characters. I finished a new character i didnt think would be done by now. Here is Olinad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3463179#post3463179) I want him to fight this week, and I would like only 1 fight, so i can get that extra credit. Do not have Arstimis, and dont have Zaphod unless there are odd match-ups and he is needed. thanks
Myrridin 05-19-04, 10:28 AM	Hatzinger: That'll be a hard fight....:) Fly, and then pelt from above, yeah. We should just give you the Undead Dire Bear.
Caterane 05-19-04, 10:34 AM	Jindl Park (City Park) Jindl Park is located South-East of The Arena. It is bumping up against the training grounds. There is a vast forest and rumors abound that the forest is magical. People ooften get lost within the center of the forest, and some say it takes less time to walk all the way around the park than it does to walk through it. The true nature of the park may only be known to a few druids... About your thread: great work!! But why has Jindl a park and I ain`t?? Where`s Caterane`s Alley you promised!? :mad: @LLMAdCow: I know you surely have the map finished already so I came up with a good idea on where to put Cat`s Alley retroactively: http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Cat%60s%20Alley.jpg :D
Hatzinger 05-19-04, 11:02 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Hatzinger: That'll be a hard fight....:) Fly, and then pelt from above, yeah. We should just give you the Undead Dire Bear. :bigeyes: Well, Life is hard and unfair. :ayyyy!:
Jindl 05-19-04, 11:18 AM	@Hatzinger - You cannot have a monster fight against a templated or advanced creature. Sorry, but you can't fight an Advanced Dire Bear to try and animate. Perhaps a different 16 HD creature? @Sindorin - With daemones retiring Goznar and Aramil Dunskar dropping your fight, I'm going to put your PC back as [OK] and pair him against Twyll Talaviir this week. Sorry you missed out on the fight, but I have now implemented a more severe penalty to dropping fights which will hopefully discourage pitlords from doing this again. @All - Pairings will be in about 4 hours ... -Jindl
LLMadCow 05-19-04, 11:55 AM	Trust me, it is there. Within the city, Cat's Alley is the nickname for a major street that stretches between Arkhein Heights and Arcadivus. The Actual Name is Caterane Lane, it is a long road, not too wide, but a very popular area for taverns and bars that promote Bards and Storytellers alike. The nickname Cat's Alley came into since the road is rather narrow, commonly packed with people (Making it rather unsuitable for carts or horses to walk through), and all the 'Hep Cats' like to hang out there. The Nobility go there when they are 'Slumming' since people from all over go there for entertainment. Take note that in my thread I have not mentioned a wide range of Gladius Landmarks. LL Lane, Cat's Alley, Dargenfest Hall, The Fugue Plane, The Diving Falcon and the Rusty Nail, etc. If no one has any complaints, I think the Fugue Plane is going to be a freaky Tavern located in Kailo that is run by some spellcasters. They serve nothing but VERY potent potables, and thes things often include magically enhanced drinks. Imagine 1 pitcher of ale + 1 vial of rainbow pattern = a private viewing of a fascinating rainbow for a party of up to 24 HD.... There will be more. Does my thread make sense so far?
Ethendril 05-19-04, 12:24 PM	Everything looks great so far LL. Please note that there's an entire chapter of the World Thread devoted to your map!
Hatzinger 05-19-04, 12:37 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Hatzinger - You cannot have a monster fight against a templated or advanced creature. Sorry, but you can't fight an Advanced Dire Bear to try and animate. Perhaps a different 16 HD creature? Damn! Then i´ll give the request for a monster fight up and just kill anyone else who comes my way :nonono:
Ethendril 05-19-04, 12:45 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger Damn! Then i´ll give the request for a monster fight up and just kill anyone else who comes my way :nonono: Yeah, there is this weakling named Aemon at your level.;) He's set for ready.
KerlanRayne 05-19-04, 01:01 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @KerlanRayne - I don't think we are allowing the optional cultural weapons in the DMG. So you may have to switch from a Kusari-Gama to a regular Spiked Chain. I thought there was a PC with a Katana. You said you don't think so, how will I know whether I can or not? Originally posted by KerlanRayne Can you cast Spectral hand and have it move 40 ft away and stay there? Only under certain conditions does it hover besude you. Would it be a free action to order it to move if not casting a spell? Any answers for this yet? KerlanRayne
Hatzinger 05-19-04, 01:09 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Yeah, there is this weakling named Aemon at your level.;) He's set for ready. Then make my day, Punk! :behold: (i guess it´s too late for a challenge?)
Arstimis 05-19-04, 01:14 PM	Originally posted by KerlanRayne I thought there was a PC with a Katana. You said you don't think so, how will I know whether I can or not? KerlanRayne katana is just a different name for the bastard sword. It is exacly the same in everything but the name. If the weapon you have is just another name for a different weapon A, but has all the same stats as A, then iy should be fine
Jindl 05-19-04, 01:21 PM	Originally posted by KerlanRayne I thought there was a PC with a Katana. You said you don't think so, how will I know whether I can or not? You cannot use a kusari-gama. It is different than a spiked chain. A katana is not different than a masterwork bastard sword. It uses the same proficiency, damage, size, weight, and threat range. A kusari-gama is different on all of these aspects from any other weapon. Sorry, but its out. A spiked chain is similar, if you want an alternative. Originally posted by KerlanRayne Can you cast Spectral hand and have it move 40 ft away and stay there? Only under certain conditions does it hover besude you. Would it be a free action to order it to move if not casting a spell? The hand hovers beside you at all times, unless it is delivering a spell. You cannot just move it around the battlefield. Sorry for the bad news about the kusari-gama. Hope I was able to help on the spectral hand question. -Jindl
Myrridin 05-19-04, 01:23 PM	Edit: Nevermind, Jindl answered.
Pitlords 05-19-04, 02:17 PM	The Roster has been updated. A couple of issues: 1. The various challenges at Level 7 are going to force Jo'Li (Mercy) and Zephin Telloran (Myrridin) to face each other for the 3rd time. Neither Jo'Li nor Zephin has faced Dusk (Ethendril) or Matei (Kaigan). Perhaps Ethendril and Kaigan would be willing to rain-check their challenge match so that Myrridin and Mercy could face some different opponents? 2. I would like to suggest that the Level 9 characters: Enilias Surion (Kaigan), Toreilison Wevlun (Magagumo), and Angosh (Pittbull) choose to freeze for now. These three characters have repeatedly faced each other. It may be a good idea to have them sit out for a couple of weeks, until there are 6-8 characters at this level. If that is too much, I would at least advise you to sit out this week, so that you'll have an even 4 characters next week. @Pittbull - I know you don't want Angosh to sit out, since he is your only character. May I suggest creating another low level character to play during the freeze? It would be better than having your dwarf face the same two opponents over and over and over. Please try to respond ASAP to these two issues, since Pairings will be soon. I open these issues to general debate as well, so even if you are not one of the players mentioned, feel free to comment on the situation. -Jindl
Sindorin 05-19-04, 02:33 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Sindorin - With daemones retiring Goznar and Aramil Dunskar dropping your fight, I'm going to put your PC back as [OK] and pair him against Twyll Talaviir this week. Sorry you missed out on the fight, but I have now implemented a more severe penalty to dropping fights which will hopefully discourage pitlords from doing this again. Bah... Oh well, whatever works. What sort of penalties are there for that? I guess I can make the most of it by rp'ing whatever went on... **evil laugh**
Ethendril 05-19-04, 02:38 PM	Jindl: While Dusk would much rather face the evil Matei (and we've both had RP back and forth this week for our challenge), I could face someone else if it helps. I have, however, faced Zephin already. EDIT: After looking at the possible matchups, maybe Professor and Cliodhna could delay their challenge, since Dusk challenged Matei first this week (and we actually issued RP challenges, rather than just in the tavern). Matei killed a fellow Celestial Forces ally last week, and we had RP in our Celestial Forces thread, too. Cancelling the Professor/Cliodhna fight would free up both those characters to fight Zephin and Jo'Li. This would be my preference.
Jindl 05-19-04, 02:55 PM	Originally posted by Pitlords General Announcements 6. Recently we have had at least one fight per week that has had this problem. In the future, if your fight is not posted on time, you will recieve a late penalty and you will be unable to pitlord for 2 weeks (which may limit you to only one PC for a couple of weeks). Apparently this is necessary to prevent players from missing out on fights because their pitlord was irresponsible. @Sindorin - This is the new penalty I was referring too. -Jindl
Sindorin 05-19-04, 03:00 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Sindorin - This is the new penalty I was referring too. -Jindl Ah so much for me paying attention, thank you much.
Myrridin 05-19-04, 03:35 PM	Yeah, I'd prefer not to have Zephin fight Jo'Li yet again. While in a couple more levels I would do it, as the characters have changed sufficiently, not now. I'd fight Dusk again, as I have no idea how that one went, due to a lost fight. But I'd be up for fighting anyone at level 7 who isn't Jo'Li again. If it ends up that Jo'Li and Zephin must fight, I'll just sit my character out this week and mod as many fights as possible to build credits up.
Caterane 05-19-04, 03:48 PM	@Ethendril/Jindl: I have already written several pages of tactics yesterday against Clio so please leave the pairing as it is. I`ve invested quite some time in it, and I`m not sure if I have time to write new ones - asides from it being an annoying waste of time. Vandaeris vs Clio, please.
Myrridin 05-19-04, 03:56 PM	I thought that challenges weren't going to be given first priority in the pairings? If they are, I'm going to have to make sure to challenge someone every week, so I don't get stuck fighting the same person three times.
Jindl 05-19-04, 04:46 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin I thought that challenges weren't going to be given first priority in the pairings? If they are, I'm going to have to make sure to challenge someone every week, so I don't get stuck fighting the same person three times. Challenges will not take priority. That's why I was asking for a volunteer to break their challenge. If I do not get a volunteer, then I will use the online roller to randomly break one of the challenges. The other challenge will proceed as normal. The 4 remaining PC's will be matched up against each other in such a manner that Jo'Li and Zephin are not paired against each other. Pairings will be in 6 hours (really this time...) -Jindl
Caterane 05-19-04, 04:51 PM	Hey Jindl. Read my post above? I`ve invested pretty much time already and I don`t want to do it again! So either ask Ethendril or Battousai, or pair Zephin vs JoLi for the 20th time, I don`t care but Vandaeris vs Clio it is!
Mercy 05-19-04, 05:59 PM	@Jindl Since Jo'Li might not get to fight and there are only 3 gladitors in the 2nd level I've went ahead and posted Dart (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3469010#post3469010) a new 2nd level fighter. If both Jo'Li and Dart end up fighting this week I'll take the negative credit, since I won't be able to pitlord. Edit: Fixed the link. Also don't break any Challenges on my account.
Hatzinger 05-19-04, 06:16 PM	@Pitlord Please don´t put Heinrich against Kage again. I´ve already beaten him twice. No need to prove anything here. On the other hand, i´ve never fought against Aemon. And ending his luck-streak would be a pleasure. :devil:
Magagumo 05-19-04, 06:20 PM	Edit: Ah, Peter isnt in it seems. Tori will freeze.
playpal 05-19-04, 06:24 PM	I exist, supper.
MotherBast 05-19-04, 06:30 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Hey Jindl. Read my post above? I`ve invested pretty much time already and I don`t want to do it again! So either ask Ethendril or Battousai, or pair Zephin vs JoLi for the 20th time, I don`t care but Vandaeris vs Clio it is! This disturbs me for soooooooo many reasons.
Jindl 05-19-04, 06:35 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast This disturbs me for soooooooo many reasons. Don't sweat it MB. I'm in charge of the roster and pairings, remember? Besides, I think Mercy just volunteered to have Jo'Li sit out (the whole "Don't break their challenges on my account" part of his post above). So, I'll do a doesn't fight roll for the remaining 5 and go from there (unless Myrridin wants to volunteer to sit out also.) I'm adding the new characters to the roster now. Pairings in 4 hours... -Jindl
Ethendril 05-19-04, 06:39 PM	Originally posted by playpal I exist, supper. Welcome, playpal!
Kaigan 05-19-04, 06:46 PM	@Jindl: if ethendril is up to it, then Matei and Dusk can fight at some other time.
Battousai2005 05-19-04, 06:59 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Hey Jindl. Read my post above? I`ve invested pretty much time already and I don`t want to do it again! So either ask Ethendril or Battousai, or pair Zephin vs JoLi for the 20th time, I don`t care but Vandaeris vs Clio it is! If someone could tell me the situation, I would love to help. I don't see how I am involved in this, but I still want to help out.
Hatzinger 05-19-04, 08:11 PM	Hey Cellardwellar, i just noticed that the nice treatise on power-attacks was actually written by you. Nice work, man! Are you familiar with Locke´s average_damage_per_round homepage? (hmmm.... looks like it´s offline.)
barrel_master 05-19-04, 09:58 PM	Yeah, props to cellerdewller...
Myrridin 05-19-04, 10:23 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Hey Jindl. Read my post above? I`ve invested pretty much time already and I don`t want to do it again! So either ask Ethendril or Battousai, or pair Zephin vs JoLi for the 20th time, I don`t care but Vandaeris vs Clio it is! Even though that's a bit arrogant, and sets an incredibly bad precedent, I'm willing to play by the rules, and sit out this week. If I'd been in a worse mood, I would've said make the "doesn't fight" roll, and let it fall where it may.
LLMadCow 05-19-04, 10:30 PM	I am just letting everyone know that this fight has been in the making for months now. Prior to my absence from the arena, the fight was on. Clio and Prof did not get to fight then due to circumstances beyond my control, and now that I am back in the arena, it is appropriate that the two fight. If I understand correctly, Cat did not have the Prof fight ANYONE during the entire break, and it is only appropriate that the two get paired. I forgot abou the challeneg until this week, and since Clio lost last week, we can hold to it. I know what it is like to fight several times, but I am ready for the fight...
Pitlords 05-19-04, 11:56 PM	Pairings are done. 1. Tactics are due Friday. 2. Pitlords may begin running fights with tactics on Friday. 3. Pitlords may begin running fights using default tactics on Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. A special thanks to Myrridin, Mercy, Magagumo, Pittbull, and Kaigan - All of whom had characters sit out this week to avoid repeated rematches. You all will recieve "doesn't fight credits" to ensure that you participate in the next pairings. Good luck to everyone! -Jindl
KerlanRayne 05-20-04, 01:19 AM	Originally posted by Jindl You cannot use a kusari-gama. A kusari-gama is different on all of these aspects from any other weapon. Sorry, but its out. A spiked chain is similar, if you want an alternative. Ok, back to the drawing board. Originally posted by Jindl The hand hovers beside you at all times, unless it is delivering a spell. You cannot just move it around the battlefield. I'm not so sure about that. Here is a quote from the SRD. Originally posted by SRD After it delivers a spell, or if the hand goes beyond the spell range, goes out of your sight, the hand returns to you and hovers. It doesn't say it is always by your side, just that it returns there in certain situations. Don't have th PHB on me at the moment so it may be different there. Anyone else have comments? KerlanRayne
^Rayne^ 05-20-04, 01:25 AM	Myrridin, Vryk's tactics verses Vaarkalikax, the Lichking have been sent to you via PM. If you have any questions please let me know. Rayne
daemones 05-20-04, 02:17 AM	@Mag: Tactics sent for Irwin vs. Kaz via email.
Sindorin 05-20-04, 03:06 AM	Tactics sent for Tair Malek
Hatzinger 05-20-04, 05:29 AM	SRD says: Shield, Tower: This massive wooden shield is nearly as tall as you are. In most situations, it provides the indicated shield bonus to your AC. However, you can instead use it as total cover, though you must give up your attacks to do so. The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells; a spellcaster can cast a spell on you by targeting the shield you are holding. You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else. When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield’s encumbrance. Question: Does the part with giving up attacks when using it for total cover mean that i can or can not cast spells when i use it in such a way? I´m talking about buffs here, not aggessive spells. (which do not count as an "attack" per se.)
Caterane 05-20-04, 05:43 AM	@Hatze: A well of new ideas, eh? But setting a towershield for total cover is a standard action. @Myrridin & Mercy: Thanks for volunteering to sit out. My alternative would`ve been to send my already written tactics to the trashcan, and have Vandaeris sit out because I cannot write new ones. Don`t know when I`d have the chance to fight Clio again with him. I was just a bit annoyed that Jindl completey ignored my first post which went like that: Originally posted by Caterane @Ethendril/Jindl: I have already written several pages of tactics yesterday against Clio so please leave the pairing as it is. I`ve invested quite some time in it, and I`m not sure if I have time to write new ones - asides from it being an annoying waste of time. Vandaeris vs Clio, please. I`ll sit out another time for you then. @Ethendril/LLMadCow: Tactics for Vandaeris and Ixidor sent.
Hatzinger 05-20-04, 06:16 AM	Originally posted by Caterane [B]@Hatze: A well of new ideas, eh? But setting a towershield for total cover is a standard action. Sure. *g*. I am here to learn. Yes, i know that it used to be that way in 3.0. But now i don´t find this sentence any more in the tower-shield description. Looks like they replaced it by the no-attacks section. (which would be fine with me, because i don´t plan to attack, but to buff under the protection of cover.:D)
MotherBast 05-20-04, 06:58 AM	Hat: the towershield description in the PHB is incomplete. It has been errataed quite a bit. You can find the correct description in the FAQ on the D&D mainpage I belive. It is indeed a standard action to set it ready, and it only gives total cover from one direction now.
Hatzinger 05-20-04, 07:07 AM	Hmpf. WotC updated the whole SRD last week, including erratas and psionics; and didn´t repair this rule? What a bunch of *******.
Hatzinger 05-20-04, 07:38 AM	@Limit: tactics sent via email. Please confirm their arrival.
Myrridin 05-20-04, 08:16 AM	Rayne: Tactics received for Vryk Cat: You're welcome. I just don't like seeing the rules that have been laid down forgotten.
Caterane 05-20-04, 09:13 AM	@Jindl: Please insert the pairings in the pitlord post of the fights thread. Perhaps you didn´t notice it yet but I always added it afterwards. However, I always had to rewrite pairings that have already been resolved on thursday. If you don`t have time I`ll add it tomorow myself. And please write 20th may 2004 instead of 5/20/2004 which is confusing for us europeans because we normally write days before months. In this case it`s clear because there are no 20 months but 5/7/2004 could easily be July. Day Month Year sounds more logical to me anyway than Month Day Year Just a thought
Arstimis 05-20-04, 09:45 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Day Month Year sounds more logical to me anyway than Month Day Year Just a thought And the metric systems is more logical, but you dont see us illogical americans using that yet do you :P
Hatzinger 05-20-04, 10:07 AM	Flame the colonists! Yay! :mage:
Battousai2005 05-20-04, 10:08 AM	Originally posted by Arstimis And the metric systems is more logical, but you dont see us illogical americans using that yet do you :P Yah, well. At least we win the wars! Still, It's easy to do either way.
Hatzinger 05-20-04, 10:11 AM	pffft... every idiot could win wars with such resources. no skill in that.
Arstimis 05-20-04, 10:20 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Yah, well. At least we win the wars! Still, It's easy to do either way. you gotta be kidding that metric system isnt any easier than ours to do. tell me how many inches in a mile. tell me how me centemeters in a kilometer...now which was easier to figure out pffft... every idiot could win wars with such resources. no skill in that. It takes a bit more than an idiot. Every play Risk? you cant be an idiot and expect to win that. anyways, alot of the skill came from gaining the resources.
Caterane 05-20-04, 10:22 AM	Don`t forget that the US always waits until the war is nearly over and all involved nations are depleted, or they attack nations far below their firepower :rolleyes:
Myrridin 05-20-04, 10:46 AM	Cat: Yeah....recently, you're right. Then again, most modern wars are fought with one country having overwhelming military might compared to their opponent. Germany in WWII for instance, was a lot stronger than Poland, France, or any of their surrounding opponents. Heck, Germany in WWI did the same thing. The US didn't enter WWII after everyone was depleted either, they were in it starting in 1942, whereas the war didn't end until Sept of 1945. Considering the war started in 1938/39, that's a pretty fair chunk of said war. That said, I think that current US military policy for the last 50 years resembles nothing so much as a bully on the school playground.
Magagumo 05-20-04, 11:03 AM	It's the perception of being the world's "policeman," a view which was rarely challenged (except perhaps by South American countries) when USA and the Soviet Union were the two big "superpowers." Nowadays, there are quite a few powerful countries, and the distance from the top to the bottom (esp. w/ nuclear armaments) is shrinking fast. Personally, I'd like to see the USA get off its "high horse" and just worry about maintaining good foreign relations and fixing it up its own myriad of problems :) By the way, I have no problem doing what the crazy European "Cat", says. We might as well listen before he invades France. (j/k dude :D, if it confuses ya, then let's do it your way.) Edit: Irwin's tactics recieved, daemones, small reply sent back re: tactics. Zorander's tactics vs. Pale-Rider are beign written now.
Caterane 05-20-04, 11:08 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Cat: Yeah....recently, you're right. Then again, most modern wars are fought with one country having overwhelming military might compared to their opponent. Germany in WWII for instance, was a lot stronger than Poland, France, or any of their surrounding opponents. Heck, Germany in WWI did the same thing. The US didn't enter WWII after everyone was depleted either, they were in it starting in 1942, whereas the war didn't end until Sept of 1945. Considering the war started in 1938/39, that's a pretty fair chunk of said war. That said, I think that current US military policy for the last 50 years resembles nothing so much as a bully on the school playground. That`s not right. First of all, in both World Wars Russia alone had thrice the number of troops Germany had. Granted, France and Poland were weaker but that weren`t the only countries the Reich engaged. Add Great Britain, Russia, Denmark, all of Scandinavia, Belgium, Netherlands, Yugoslavia, Greece, and several others aswell, not to forget the USA. And the USA entered in 1944, not 1942, and the war was over in MAY 1945. In WW1 they entered 1917, and 1918 the war was over. Again, pretty much at the end. At that time Russia was defeated, Germany, France and England had lost 80% of their troops already. It`s a good example that not all nations attack when victory is assured, or when they have overwhelming military power.
Jindl 05-20-04, 11:18 AM	I know this is the Tavern, and we generally allow pretty much any topic ... but could we quit the discussion about the US vs Europe. We're here to play the game, not to give our opinions about other player's countries (or our own). @Cat - If it makes it easier to understand, I'll just write the abbreviation for the month as part of the date: 19 May 04 for example (or 23 Jun 04 - my birthday)... Okay? -Jindl
Ethendril 05-20-04, 11:25 AM	And the USA entered in 1944, not 1942, and the war was over in MAY 1945 That's just wrong info, Cat. Pearl Harbor was December 7, 1941, which pretty much thrust the US into both Europe and the Pacific. In fact, the Allied powers had a "Germany First" strategy, which was to topple Europe before focusing on Japan. Sorry, bud, but that went into full swing in 1942. EDIT: You're right, Jindl...No more off topic starting....NOW!
Caterane 05-20-04, 11:45 AM	D-Day: 6th June 1944 @Jindl: yes, abrevations are fine.
Arstimis 05-20-04, 12:02 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Don`t forget that the US always waits until the war is nearly over and all involved nations are depleted, or they attack nations far below their firepower :rolleyes: the reason the US waits is because it is never their war, and we try and let others solve there problems before entering to regulate because no one else can. Oh, and think about when wars end and when the US enters, it seems that they come in at the end of it. But unlike a day wars don't have a preplanned ending day. It seems that wars always end shortly after the US enters, which is a good thing. The US is on a "high horse" cause no one else has the guts to tame it
Magagumo 05-20-04, 12:18 PM	Hehe, suppose we should all play nice :) Zorander's tactics have been sent, Cat @Other players- I leave for Canada tomorrow at noon, so if people could give me their tactics tonight, I'd be really appreciative. I won't be coming home until Wednesday, so if you can't get me tactics by email tonight, please PM them to me, so I can run the fight's up at college when my gf isn't around :angel:
LLMadCow 05-20-04, 01:05 PM	@Cat / Jindl: The Core Coliseum needs some advertising. It is time to post some new messages on other boards to get their attention. I recommend that Cat work on this, as he seems to be more the bard and that is going to be a big issue when trying to attract new players. Also, remember to take into consideration the audience of where you post. We need to appeal to a wide range of people. Be sure and let people know that if they only want to play one character a week, they do not have to be Pitlords. Appeal to those who enjoy the Role Playing aspect. Appeal to the number crunchers. There are other Bards out there would love the opportunity to write fun and entertaining stories around the battles that take place, The Arena is growing in flavor and style, so more people make it mkore alive and real. If I were the one posting the AD, I would make it exciting and make sure it covers a wide range of topics. Be sure to include links to the Coliseum, the Tavern, the Gladiators and the Fight thread (Although you may want to consider selecting a few of the more detailed and exciting fights so people understand what we are talking about and just how cool it is around here!). That's just my thoughts. Take 'em or leave 'em, but I think we do need some fresh blood.
LLMadCow 05-20-04, 01:11 PM	@Elders - I remember a time when... Oh never mind. I want SUB ARENAS! I want test arenas to test other concepts and the possibility of other books. Think about it, mull it over. Take a poll. Try to find out ho many people HAVE other books besides Core. I would do it similar to the City Name Vote, but list some of the MAJOR supplements and see what people have. One of the big arguements for ALWAYS CORE was that the SRD is online. Well, now that we have our own Forum, we can run test threads and check stuff out. The Tavern is getting big... Remember, one of the reasons we got our own Forum was that we would be able to keep from having such mosterous threads. The larger the thread, the more it bogs down the systems. Let's nip this in the bud and start a Core Coliseum Tavern II. Close this thread and move on. Remember, WotC was gracious enough to give us this much, lets try to do our best to make life easy for them.
SnarkHunter 05-20-04, 01:19 PM	Seems a little drastic LL. A thread this large can be intimidating sure but no reason someone needs to read the whole thing. Anywho, tactics for Donkey sent out . So far I've recieved no tactics.
Arstimis 05-20-04, 01:29 PM	I like the idea of the sub arenas, it would be cool. Kaigan, Battousia, MysticMonk and myself have access to nearly every book, and I know we would all want to participate
Arstimis 05-20-04, 01:35 PM	Double post
Jindl 05-20-04, 01:36 PM	Special Thanks to Myrridin for putting extra time and effort into auditing characters and posting violations. I have awarded him an extra "+" credit for his efforts. @ALL - If you have a 3rd or 4th level character, please read the violations thread, as Myrridin has posted audits of all the current Lvl 3's and 4's. I will be attaching Violation tags on Monday. -Jindl
Ethendril 05-20-04, 02:03 PM	@Myrridin: Tactics sent for Vaarkalikax. @Snark: Tactics sent for Dusk.
Myrridin 05-20-04, 02:15 PM	Ethendril: Tactics received. A note after looking at the character sheets: gotta remember to buy a ranged weapon.
Caterane 05-20-04, 02:46 PM	Advertisement: Funny thing is that I just did that 3 hours ago on the Morrowind board. Don`t even know what that is but the search engine led me there when I had searched for angel pics. Well, I did post on the CO board but they reported it as spam rather than advertisment so I left it be. Sub-Arena: That`s a bad idea because it will take away from the main arena (players and pitlords alike) thus spread the board thin. And it won´t work. Let`s say a quarter goes to the subarena, then you`ll have 1 gladiator on each level after some weeks, and the main arena lost 1/4 of their gladiators. And we are already incorporating all kinds of new stuff so no need to expand further. New Tavern: Bad idea too. I`d have liked to keep the old Tournament thread but that wasn`t possible. This is part of our history and it is ongoing right now. If we unstick it, it will forever vanish and be forgotten. No one would bother about it anymore, link or not.
Ethendril 05-20-04, 03:44 PM	If a cleric selects the War domain, does he have to select the favored weapon of one of the PHB deities, or could he select a different martial weapon? Could you just select No Devotion and the war domain, then select any martial weapon you want?
Boldrift-Mattock 05-20-04, 03:46 PM	l
Myrridin 05-20-04, 03:48 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril If a cleric selects the War domain, does he have to select the favored weapon of one of the PHB deities, or could he select a different martial weapon? Could you just select No Devotion and the war domain, then select any martial weapon you want? Yes, as long as it's a marital weapon. Someone tried to do this with an exotic weapon, and that doesn't work.
LLMadCow 05-20-04, 04:29 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Advertisement: Funny thing is that I just did that 3 hours ago on the Morrowind board. Don`t even know what that is but the search engine led me there when I had searched for angel pics. Well, I did post on the CO board but they reported it as spam rather than advertisment so I left it be. New Tavern: Bad idea too. I`d have liked to keep the old Tournament thread but that wasn`t possible. This is part of our history and it is ongoing right now. If we unstick it, it will forever vanish and be forgotten. No one would bother about it anymore, link or not. Odd, about the advertisement. Something shall have to be done about that. This requires further investigation. New Tavern. Guys, I am not saying this as some kind of asthetic thing. I am not even implying that people are forced to read all of what has been posted in the tavern. I am saying that when Mo was working an getting this for us, one of the issues was just how HUGE some of the threads were getting. The larger a thread, the more it taxes the systems power and abilities. The servers that run the WotC boards can handle a great deal of information, but the people that run these boards said before that our threads were getting a bit on the large side. Okay, don't close this yet, but I would close it around the 5000 mark at least. I am hoping that someone more computer minded can step in and at least verify what I am saying. I am into computers, but no one seems to understand the purpose of having smaller, more manageable threads.
Tellish_of_Ket 05-20-04, 04:49 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Yes, as long as it's a marital weapon. Someone tried to do this with an exotic weapon, and that doesn't work. A dwarf can chose the dwarven war axe because to him, it's a martial weapon. -ToK
Hatzinger 05-20-04, 05:33 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Yes, as long as it's a marital weapon. MARITAL weapon? Like a rolling pin or a carpet beater? Maybe even auntie Emma´s marriage present, the whole good dishes set? I didn´t know that dwarves are provicient with rolling pins... So now i know why they are all so fat. They are cooking and baking the whole time in their cafes, aeh... caves...
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-20-04, 05:44 PM	Sended tactic to Magagumo via email and PM.
Myrridin 05-20-04, 05:48 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger MARITAL weapon? Like a rolling pin or a carpet beater? Maybe even auntie Emma´s marriage present, the whole good dishes set? I didn´t know that dwarves are provicient with rolling pins... So now i know why they are all so fat. They are cooking and baking the whole time in their cafes, aeh... caves... Hey, you want a weapon proficiency in something like that, go to town. :) If you can win with it, even better.
Ethendril 05-20-04, 05:49 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger MARITAL weapon? Like a rolling pin or a carpet beater? Maybe even auntie Emma´s marriage present, the whole good dishes set? I didn´t know that dwarves are provicient with rolling pins... So now i know why they are all so fat. They are cooking and baking the whole time in their cafes, aeh... caves... There is only one marital weapon, Hatzinger...It's the ball and chain!
Hatzinger 05-20-04, 06:25 PM	?, Ethendril?
Ethendril 05-20-04, 06:30 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger ?, Ethendril? Oh, come on Hatzinger... The wife= the old ball and chain, so that makes it the marital weapon of choice. Hmmm, maybe this humor doesn't translate well...
Hatzinger 05-20-04, 06:57 PM	I have no idea what you are talking about. Is that a proverb/saying in your language? What does it mean?
Battousai2005 05-20-04, 06:58 PM	There is only one marital weapon, Hatzinger...It's the ball and chain! Hey, I thought this was the tavern, not the humor thread.
Kaigan 05-20-04, 06:59 PM	@Freemoody: Tactics sent for Twyll. @Snarkhunter: Tactics sent for Matei
Ethendril 05-20-04, 07:02 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger I have no idea what you are talking about. Is that a proverb/saying in your language? What does it mean? Yeah, it is a saying. It's like a criminal, who wears a chain around his ankle, which is linked to a heavy iron ball so he can't escape. In the US, it's a joke for your wife, because she's the ball and chain attached to your ankle, and you can't escape.
Hatzinger 05-20-04, 07:04 PM	crazy americans... why is the chain not fixed to the kitchen? :angel:
Mercy 05-20-04, 07:23 PM	@Captain Mutilate - Tactics send for Dart via email
Magagumo 05-20-04, 07:30 PM	Irwin v. Kazeira is posted- Short fight, but tactics make a difference
freemoody 05-20-04, 07:36 PM	@Beldin: Tactics for Lillith have been sent via PM and E-Mail. @ Kaigan and Playpal: Both tactis have been recieved. Fight will be posted some time Friday night.
Myrridin 05-20-04, 08:41 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger crazy americans... why is the chain not fixed to the kitchen? :angel: Heh....hehehe......hahhahahahahahahahahh ahahahahah....[i]*wheeze*[/] Thanks Hatzinger, that was funny. Especially given that I'm about to be married. :)
Battousai2005 05-20-04, 10:39 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger crazy americans... why is the chain not fixed to the kitchen? :angel: Because our women tend to chain us in places, not the other way around. And yes, in my humble opinion, all us Americans are crazy. I for one am darn proud of it!
kattattack22 05-20-04, 11:53 PM	Aww, I missed all the fun discussion on US and wars... @Magagumo - Tactics for Ony sent via email. @Myrridin - Expect Arkin's tactics tomorrow. @TaggIIV and Arstimis - I'll run your fight on Sunday ~12 noon US Central time. Please have tactics to me by then.
Battousai2005 05-20-04, 11:57 PM	Inuyasha fans rejoice! (Just me... Darn) Shiryoken (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3481032#post3481032), the hanyou has been posted! Now i just need to get the creds for him... darn. @Arti: Tactics will be in friday. Funny, since you already know them. You may want specifics tho... @Limit/Beldin: No tactics from either.
Arstimis 05-21-04, 01:54 AM	Originally posted by kattattack22 @TaggIIV and Arstimis - I'll run your fight on Sunday ~12 noon US Central time. Please have tactics to me by then. I just sent tactics, you have time to look them over if you have any questions. Pard's tactics recieved
Hatzinger 05-21-04, 07:17 AM	@Limit - You didn´t respond, so i sent you Heinrichs tactics again. This time, via email AND pm. I´m afk this weekend.
Hatzinger 05-21-04, 07:19 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Because our women tend to chain us in places, not the other way around. Everybody by his facon... A friend of mine likes the chain-game, too. But that´s not my business...
Myrridin 05-21-04, 09:48 AM	My first fight is posted. Vryk vs Vaarkalikax, the LichKing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3483129#post3483129)
Jindl 05-21-04, 10:12 AM	@Myrridin - Take whatever d4 you used for Vaarkalikax, and have it bronzed. That thing is magnificent. On 7 darts from magic missile, it rolled a 4,4,4,3,3,4,3. That's 25 damage out of 28 max on 7d4. Incredible. -Jindl
Myrridin 05-21-04, 10:25 AM	Yeah, I noticed that too. I'm going to use it when I play in my RL campaign....hopefully I haven't used up all it's luck. I've posted a new character at 2nd level. I'll flip back and forth between my two characters depending on which level has an even or uneven amount of gladiators.
Magagumo 05-21-04, 10:30 AM	@kat got tactics, sent them to myself over PM :) @Jindl Please send me Rhoar's tactics via PM, I won't be able to access my mail for a couple of days.
Alterlat 05-21-04, 10:35 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin I've posted a new character at 2nd level. I'll flip back and forth between my two characters depending on which level has an even or uneven amount of gladiators. Hey Myrridin, I think your new character may have a level or three too many.
Limit 05-21-04, 11:04 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin My first fight is posted. Vryk vs Vaarkalikax, the LichKing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3483126#post3483129) Anyone else get taken to an Eberron thread when they click on this link?
Ethendril 05-21-04, 11:12 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin My first fight is posted. Vryk vs Vaarkalikax, the LichKing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3483126#post3483129) @Myrridin: I really liked your story. Very fun. I'd also like that dice in every fight, please.
Myrridin 05-21-04, 11:12 AM	Limit: Yeah, the levels are too many, I was doing some playing, and left the higher numbers in, but everything else is fine, I'll edit that. Huh, I copied that number directly from the quote button....I'll fix that, thanks. :) edit: I copied a number wrong. I'll you'll check the original link, it goes to the fight now, not the Eberron board.
Myrridin 05-21-04, 11:18 AM	Eth: Thanks, I've been putting more work into my stories, as I figure it's more fun to read. :) Yeah, I couldn't believe that rolling.
Myrridin 05-21-04, 12:01 PM	Hey Kedi, would you please cut the obnoxious length of your signature? It's a pain in the butt, and no one wants to read it when it's that long. I don't care about some competition you're having with someone else.
Caterane 05-21-04, 12:30 PM	@Myrridin: UserCP --> Edit options --> Show user's signatures in their posts? No.
Ethendril 05-21-04, 12:49 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Hey Kedi, would you please cut the obnoxious length of your signature? It's a pain in the butt, and no one wants to read it when it's that long. I don't care about some competition you're having with someone else. Careful, man...he's going to add that to his signature.:D
Limit 05-21-04, 12:52 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Myrridin: UserCP --> Edit options --> Show user's signatures in their posts? No. @Myrriden: UserCP --> Edit Profile --> Signature Display Limit I set this to "5". I can still read normal signatures like Cat's, etc, but long ones are truncated.
Caterane 05-21-04, 12:52 PM	Careful, man...he's going to add that to his signature. :rofl:
barrel_master 05-21-04, 01:10 PM	When we create the new 'tavern thread' could we do it with the Pitlord account?
Jindl 05-21-04, 01:24 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master When we create the new 'tavern thread' could we do it with the Pitlord account? @barrel - That's about 2400 posts away, so it will probably be another 4 or 5 months. Unfortunately, the first post needs to be from Cat, Tellish, Mo, or myself so that the thread will be a "Game Master" thread and we will have the ability to open/close/edit it. That's why all of the major function threads (fights of the week, gladiators, tavern, elder forum, etc.) have the first post by a GM and the second,third, and fourth reserved by Pitlords. -Jindl
Myrridin 05-21-04, 01:55 PM	Tactics have not ben received from either Tellish or Katt for their fight.
Beldin 05-21-04, 01:57 PM	@ battousai: tactics send for delayar via email @ limit: tactics send for aemon via email @ freemoody: tactics received
^Rayne^ 05-21-04, 02:39 PM	Quote from Myrridin Yeah, I noticed that too. I'm going to use it when I play in my RL campaign....hopefully I haven't used up all it's luck. I've posted a new character at 2nd level. I'll flip back and forth between my two characters depending on which level has an even or uneven amount of gladiators. Everyone seems to forget who was on the losing end of that barrage. I started wondering what spell he hit Vryk with because it didn't seem possible for that to be a magic missile attack. I swear my PC's are plagued by bad luck. Good luck for the people my characters face off against but bad luck for me. :(
Tellish_of_Ket 05-21-04, 02:50 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Tactics have not ben received from either Tellish or Katt for their fight. Sorry, been busy a bit. I'm working on them and will have them for you shortly. Tactics for donkey and drak'whatchyamacallit are recieved. -ToK
Myrridin 05-21-04, 02:59 PM	ToK: Not a problem, just wanted to make sure that you and Katt knew that I didn't have them in case that you'd already sent them. Rayne: Yeah, I couldn't believe the damage. That's a heck of a magic missile spell!
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-21-04, 03:47 PM	Just a notice that I am pitlordin once again. I have very ambitious goal now, a 24 credits. You can quess what I am planning to do whit them ;).
Tellish_of_Ket 05-21-04, 04:02 PM	All my tactics are sent. I'll see ya'll on Sunday when i'll run my fight and check up on the progress of others. -ToK
Jindl 05-21-04, 04:13 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo @Jindl Please send me Rhoar's tactics via PM, I won't be able to access my mail for a couple of days. Tactics sent via PM. -Jindl
freemoody 05-21-04, 04:14 PM	My first fight, Twyll Talaviir vs. McFartin Warax was just posted. Only three rounds. It takes a lot longer to run a fight than I thought it would.
Limit 05-21-04, 04:34 PM	@Battousai2005: Tactics sent for The Voiceless @Beldin: Tactics not received. @Hatzinger: Tatics received three times :-D @Tellish_of_Ket: Tatics received.
Beldin 05-21-04, 04:48 PM	@limit: tactics resend
Jindl 05-21-04, 04:59 PM	@Limit - Tactics sent for Aku via PM. -Jindl
Limit 05-21-04, 05:42 PM	@Beldin & Jindl, tactics received.
Jindl 05-21-04, 06:46 PM	Originally posted by Limit @Beldin & Jindl, tactics received. Update sent for Aku's tactics. -Jindl
kattattack22 05-21-04, 07:35 PM	@Myrridin - Still working on Tactics for Arkin. My sister and friend's graduation is tonight so it may be a few more hours if not Saturday before I can get them finished kinda of complicated plan I have hatching. @Arstimis - tatics received and reply by email letting you I got them as well. No tactics yet from TaggIIV (don't worry you still have 42 hours :) ). What exactly is an unattended object? clothing? belt pouches? holy symbols? cloaks?
Jindl 05-21-04, 07:56 PM	Unattended means it is not currently in the possession of another creature. So any of those items would be unattended if they were just laying on the ground. But if another creature had possession of them, then they are not unattended. -Jindl
Battousai2005 05-21-04, 11:14 PM	All tactics recieved! Fight may not be up until Sunday. Lots of work to do. Prom, homework, end of the year projects. Life is busy, busy busy.
Boldrift-Mattock 05-21-04, 11:27 PM	Tactices have been sent for Boldrift Mattock. I hope you have fun and some stroy to this fight would do it justice. Most of all just have fun. Thanks for modding it Beldin.
TaggIIV 05-21-04, 11:45 PM	@katattack: tactics sent over PM
MotherBast 05-22-04, 02:00 AM	Barrel: I have recived no tactics for Peter. if you sent them to my Motherbast address I no longer have that account. My new account is linked on the gladiator thread. If you haven't sent tactics yet, I need them, as I will probably be running this fight tomarrow.
barrel_master 05-22-04, 11:42 AM	Originally posted by MotherBast Barrel: I have recived no tactics for Peter. if you sent them to my Motherbast address I no longer have that account. My new account is linked on the gladiator thread. If you haven't sent tactics yet, I need them, as I will probably be running this fight tomarrow. Is that the motherblast yahoo acount? Hummm... I'll PM them to you as well. Ha ha...
Caterane 05-22-04, 02:06 PM	@all older players: I`ve found our lost child. Seems like he`s unfaithful => Portal to Mo (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3490487#post3490487)
kattattack22 05-22-04, 02:16 PM	@Myrridin - Arkin's tactics sent finally. My complicated plot fell into oblivion once Jindl explained what unattended was so should be pretty straight foward. @TaggIIV - Tactics received! Now to find my dice and have some fun. EDIT: @TaggIIV and Arstimis - questions sent to each of you PM and email respectively.
SnarkHunter 05-22-04, 05:48 PM	Running it right now, here's a preview “If you think the Heat has simmered,” Matei said, purple elevated shoes gleaming. “Your wrong!” Edit: Here you go! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3494194#post3494194)
freemoody 05-22-04, 08:07 PM	That was one of the most entertaining fights I've ever read. I think we have a new "The Arena Bard." :D
SnarkHunter 05-22-04, 08:36 PM	Well hip Cat...looks like the guantlets has been thrown down. ;)
Sindorin 05-22-04, 08:56 PM	All i can say is... wow. creative.
Jindl 05-22-04, 08:59 PM	@Snark - I'm not sure whether I should be impressed or saddened by your amazing knowledge of dance... :D -Jindl (j/k)
Ethendril 05-22-04, 09:43 PM	@Snark I'm down with that fight, dog. Definitley da bomb of all dance fights (Round 7:rofl: ).
Sindorin 05-22-04, 09:51 PM	Kind of reminds me of Zoolander - "They're breakdance fighting!"
kattattack22 05-22-04, 09:57 PM	@Sindorin - lol, how true. @Capt. Mutilate - wow, great fight. I found it very amusing.
Caterane 05-23-04, 02:59 AM	Originally posted by Ethendril: RP Factors: Dusk is Bahamut's Gold Champion, and is very justice-oriented (see law domain). Matei killed a member of the Celestial Forces last week (Arkin), and Dusk has challenged Matei to avenge the loss The Fight: “So. You want to be a dance commander?” It was with these words burning in his ears that Matei, named Hot 5’s disco dancer of the year-1977, accepted Dusk’s, the Talon of Dance, challenge. “Now I’ll give out the orders for fun!” he proclaimed to all the cats in the club. Dusk narrowed his eyes, rolled up his bell bottoms and nodded Remind me to highlight my RP factors in red LOL Good work Snark, that gave me a good laugh so early in the morning.
Beldin 05-23-04, 10:40 AM	Lilith vs Boldrift (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3498418#post3498418) is done. Very long Fight, not easy to follow the tactics, i hope did not too many errors.
Beldin 05-23-04, 10:42 AM	oh, how do i make a link?
kattattack22 05-23-04, 10:47 AM	Elg'cahl vs. Olinad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3498401#post3498401) is posted. It's drow vs. drow fun! @Beldin - like this {url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3498401#post3498401]Elg'cahl vs. Olinad[/url} just replace the {} with [] and make sure you have the correct numbers. You can do this but putting your mouse over the quote button and looking in the status bar.
Beldin 05-23-04, 10:58 AM	Hey it works! Thanks Katattack!
Jindl 05-23-04, 11:01 AM	@Beldin - For best results, I suggest changing the number in both places, not just at the end. -Jindl
kattattack22 05-23-04, 11:10 AM	Originally posted by Beldin Hey it works! Thanks Katattack! No problem. Jindl is right about changing both numbers. I guess I should have made that clearer.
freemoody 05-23-04, 12:10 PM	@ Beldin: There's a question about the Lillith vs. Boldrift fight in the Fights of the Week thread.
Boldrift-Mattock 05-23-04, 12:35 PM	well that sucked I had read the fight and thought hell yeah I had finally won against her now it was edited ( for good reason) and I lost using all that equipment...damn damn damn
Jindl 05-23-04, 01:04 PM	@Boldrift, freemoody, and Beldin - Please see the Fights of the Week thread, regarding the will save for chill metal and the correct gp cost of a potion: protection from fire. -Jindl
Boldrift-Mattock 05-23-04, 01:44 PM	@ Jindl do I need to change the name or subtract gold. Resist is what I wanted but I must have screwed up somewhere. I will do either.
Boldrift-Mattock 05-23-04, 01:49 PM	@whom it may consern: I was wondering if I could make a an allyway in a Arenatown a place where some friends of mine could meet and just talk about differant things. I wanted to make it like a whole new thread though. A place where stuff could be cooked up and RPed out on the roleplay thread.? Just a resent idea and something to do on the downtime of this forum...
Jindl 05-23-04, 01:55 PM	Originally posted by Boldrift-Mattock @ Jindl do I need to change the name or subtract gold. Resist is what I wanted but I must have screwed up somewhere. I will do either. Since a potion: protection from fire was used in the fight, I would say that you should pay the difference. However, since it never came into play (you were never targetted by a fire effect), I think you are okay to just change it to a potion: resist fire. -Jindl
Beldin 05-23-04, 02:12 PM	i edited the fight so that you have bought and used a potion of resist fire
Pittbull 05-23-04, 05:21 PM	@Jindl: I have been away for some days and now recognize, that you froze the league level 9 and asked me to place a new build. How long do want to freeze it, because, if only for short time I will sit that out, but when it takes longer, I will try PSI-Baby. Is it now allowed? And, do we "Duergarplayers" have to alter the special-abillities in our existing characters?
SnarkHunter 05-23-04, 07:07 PM	Thas a good point. Duergar and Giths both have pretty extensive changes to them in the Psionics guide. I guess we could have people choose which version they'd like to play? That could get confusing though, if some people want it the MM way and others the ExPH way.
Jindl 05-23-04, 07:23 PM	The length of the Lvl 9 freeze is up to the guys with characters at 9th level. Ideally, you want to get it to 8 players, so that there aren't any rematches at 9th or 10th levels. So perhaps another week would do it. FYI: I'll be adding to the 9th level characters in two weeks, when I indtroduce a new PC (that I've been saving up for). You don't have to wait for me, but I think you would enjoy having different opponents to test your builds against. As for new psionic characters, the door will be opened starting June 1. The Psionic Duergar and Psionic Gith(s) will be considered seperate races from the normal versions. Current duergar and gith(s) need to chose which version to play when psionics are intorduced. After that, they will be different races. -Jindl
Caterane 05-23-04, 08:53 PM	The Poll has been closed with a result that couldn`t be any clearer so Psionics are hereby approved. However, as Jindl pointed out the first date by which they will be paired is June 2nd (wednesday). I would still suggest to go ahead and post your psionic character (if you wish to play one). That way we have enough time until June 2 to audit them, and point out any mistakes. Perhaps we`ll also get the chance to discuss certain things that`ll come up. These discussion should be held in the General Query, Psionics 3.5 Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=192452) Your characters will be added to the roster from tomorow on but will be marked with a special tag - don`t know what at the moment - that indicates that the character won`t be fighting prior to June 2. Blast on! Cat
Beldin 05-24-04, 02:57 AM	well, mark it with not ready or ready 2/jun/2004
Caterane 05-24-04, 03:17 AM	Question: What saves does a Phantom Steed have?
Jindl 05-24-04, 08:08 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Question: What saves does a Phantom Steed have? I can't find it anywhere in the spell description. I would say it has the same saves as its master (kind of like an attended object), since the spell also doesn't say how many HD or what creature Type the mount is. -Jindl
freemoody 05-24-04, 10:52 AM	@ Jindl: If possible, I'd like to pitlord two fights a week. And also, WOOT! Lillith can Wildshape now.
Jindl 05-24-04, 11:14 AM	Originally posted by freemoody @ Jindl: If possible, I'd like to pitlord two fights a week. The change has been made. Congrats on attaining Wild Shape! -Jindl
Hatzinger 05-24-04, 12:08 PM	Limit, it´s Monday evening here. Where is the fight?
Jindl 05-24-04, 12:16 PM	Well its only noon here on the East Coast of the US, but there are still 12 fights not posted yet, which is a lot considering that Fights will be late in another 18 hours or so (Tuesday morning here on the East Coast.) Since we are setting a time by which Character Editing must be finished prior to pairings (its 9 pm GMT on Wednesday), we might as well set a time that Fights will be considered late and penalties applied. I'll work on that. Also, be aware that the penalties for a late fight have gotten tougher: Now its a negative credit and you will not be able to pitlord for 2 weeks (which can limit you to one pc's or make it tough to gain credits). Exceptions will apply if the board goes down, or if you are taking over a fight for a missing person. -Jindl
Myrridin 05-24-04, 12:28 PM	Arkin Jozil vs Brock Granitehand (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3508033#post3508033) My last fight is posted.
freemoody 05-24-04, 12:32 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Since we are setting a time by which Character Editing must be finished prior to pairings (its 9 pm GMT on Wednesday), we might as well set a time that Fights will be considered late and penalties applied. I'll work on that. Also, be aware that the penalties for a late fight have gotten tougher: Now its a negative credit and you will not be able to pitlord for 2 weeks (which can limit you to one pc's or make it tough to gain credits). Exceptions will apply if the board goes down, or if you are taking over a fight for a missing person. -Jindl 9 pm GMT is equal to 5 pm to you on the East Coast right? And also, I thought that the pentalty of two weeks of no Pitlording was only if you didn't post the fight at all.
Myrridin 05-24-04, 01:17 PM	I think that GMT is actually 5 hours ahead of EST. So that 9pm GMT is 4pm EST. The new penalties apply for all late fights. I rather like them, as we do have a schedule, posted for everyone to see. It's not like it's a surprise when a fight is due.
Magagumo 05-24-04, 01:49 PM	4 PM Monday? Ouch, not much time given there, so I suppose Mods will have to demand that tactics begin to be given by Wednesday or Thursday then? Anyways, I'm back from Canada and am presently starting the Ony vs. Rhoar fight (I would appreciate if its not considered late by 4 PM EST, as this is the first chance i've had to work on it ;)). Expect it within the next 2 hours.
Jindl 05-24-04, 01:58 PM	Please allow me to clarify - 1. Fights are late on Tuesday (the exact time has not yet been set, but will likely be sometime Tuesday morning EST.) 2. Character Edits prior to Pairings must be completed by 9 pm GMT, which is I think 4 pm EST ... on Wednesday. -Jindl
Magagumo 05-24-04, 02:08 PM	h good *swipes hand over brow* Have no idea where I got that Monday was late :-P. Anyways, I just need to track down dice and books (sitting in gf's room, so it takes some exploring, then Rhoar and Ony shall begin. @Snark You are madman, Monsieur, and I salute you for it.
Ethendril 05-24-04, 02:11 PM	Clio vs. Professor posted, continuing the story from the Clio vs. Heinrich fight. Hopefully few errors.
barrel_master 05-24-04, 02:27 PM	Unfortunately I don't see myself having much free time next week and as such I'll have to ask that I'll have 0 fights. Also, if possible, I'd like to donate some of my credits to Jindle and Cat for their efforts on the board. 1 each from me if this is possible. I realize that it may cause some issues if (bribery, fight fixing) this happens and I understand if it won't be allowed.
^Rayne^ 05-24-04, 02:32 PM	Kattattack22 why haven't you had Ony Akerr bumped to Level 7 yet? I was looking him over for a possible rematch between him and Aiki Auk when I noticed on the end of your record your PC has lost 4 straight matches not including whatever might be the outcome from todays fight. So I am wondering did you tell the mods not to bump your PC or did you just not realize it? Anyway if your PC doesn't make it today and you are doing this 'non-bumping' business intentionally I would love to have a rematch with you, Aiki Auk verses Ony Akerr.
Jindl 05-24-04, 02:35 PM	@Barrel - As much as we appreciate the offer, I don't think we can open the door on the issue of players being able to give other players credits. You have already touched on some of the main issues involved in this decision. Thanks for the offer! -Jindl Cat has a good idea about you playing 2 pcs and using a credit so that you don't have to pitlord that week.
Caterane 05-24-04, 02:38 PM	@Barrel: :blush: Thanks for the offer but I`d rather like to see your characters fight. By using these credits you can do so without moderating a fight. Thousand thanks though for the appreciation.
Caterane 05-24-04, 03:09 PM	Pale-Rider vs Zorander (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3509503#post3509503) is up. One of them definately has to go back to Hogwarts... However, the ending is a very special one where the one that died actually won!! @Ethendril: Thousand thanks for this story! I`d liked it very much despite Vandaeris being not evil and he`d never do such a thing.
Magagumo 05-24-04, 03:34 PM	Rhoar vs. Ony will be up shortly. Quick Note on Pale-Rider vs. Zorander fight in concerns thread...
Ethendril 05-24-04, 03:38 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Ethendril: Thousand thanks for this story! I`d liked it very much despite Vandaeris being not evil and he`d never do such a thing. Yeah, he's chaotic neutral, though, so he could do pretty much anything if it's in his best interest. Note that what he thought he was doing was different than what he ended up doing. He made a spur of the moment decision. It was for a lot of money, after all. That, and I couldn't think of any other way to continue the story. :)
Hatzinger 05-24-04, 03:47 PM	Professor, you and Heinrich know who the *real* villains are. Clio´s and her throne-robbing father´s heads will soon fall before elven executoner´s blades.
Ethendril 05-24-04, 05:11 PM	@Bat: Check the RP thread.
Caterane 05-24-04, 05:37 PM	@ALL: The minimum level required to enter a Guild has been eliminated! You can now join any of the existing guilds no matter what level your gladiator is. The reason behind this is to get the Guilds into motion again. The Ravens and the League haven`t made a single post in more than 3 weeks; others are not much better. I`d like to see more roleplaying going on there. Talk about what you can add there. Try out new things. Have your members challenge other gladiators because they don`t match your philosophy. There`s so much to do! Your Guilds have all been approved, so use it! Cat PS: The Ravens and the Brotherhood of the Arcane are in red violation for 2 weeks now. The only thing requested is that you enter your primary account in the sig. Nothing more.
Tellish_of_Ket 05-24-04, 05:41 PM	drak vs donkey is temporarily finished. i mean temporarily by the fact that i'm not sure if tactics were followed completely and accurately. Things broke down and by the time it did, it looked painfully obvious who the winner would be. I'll hear arguments on both sides in the greivance thread. -ToK
MotherBast 05-24-04, 06:20 PM	You will get no complaints from me TOK. It extreamly unlucky that I had to leave the pillar on the same side Donkey was standing on. 1 in 4 chance of that, and of course it happened. If I had left on any other side I would have had cover and he could not have AoOed me. Crappy luck. On a better note, Jagath vs. Peter is ran. I'll have it posted in a couple hours.
Limit 05-24-04, 07:20 PM	Aemon vs Heinrich (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3511765#post3511765) A clean, animalless fight. I loved it! Thanks guys for letting me Pitlord for you.
freemoody 05-24-04, 08:22 PM	Was just reading this article about Animal Companians (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a) on the Wizards Main Page. It was talking about new tricks that you can teach animals. Here is something interesting that all Animal Handlers will be interested in. The following tricks expand the list of tricks found on pages 74 and 75 of the Player's Handbook... Pin (DC 15): The animal attempts to grapple and pin a designated creature... So is this okay in the CoCo? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.
Limit 05-24-04, 08:59 PM	http://web.syr.edu/~jrsmit02/images/staypuft.gif Aku vs Kelek (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3512794)
SnarkHunter 05-24-04, 09:12 PM	You predict well Tellish! Grievances are posted for all to see.
^Rayne^ 05-24-04, 11:21 PM	I know that the Improved Familiar feat is a *special feat* listed in the DMG (page 200), and I am wondering if we are allowed to have our PC's take this feat to gain an Improved Familiar they quailify for at the appropriate level? I checked the Senate section and old polls and I never saw this discussed. I've seen some individuals voice opinions against them but I would like my kobold to have the option to gain a Pseudodragon Familiar at 7th Sorcerer level if it is possible. Just curious if anyone knows the answer to this. Thanks for any information anyone knows off-hand.
freemoody 05-24-04, 11:26 PM	A 5th lvl druid can change into a 5 HD Black Bear right? The Black Bear in the MM has only 3 HD, but can advance to 5 HD. Along with the +1 to an ability score at 4 HD.
^Rayne^ 05-24-04, 11:41 PM	Only >Core 3.5 material (no psionics) is allowed: this means only 3.5 PHB, 3.5 DMG, 3.5 MM, and Official Errata's / FAQ's. The primary rules reference will be the SRD. Pitlords it looks like it is time to get rid of that (no psionics) part in the rules section. ;) Whoo hooo, gooo Psionics!
Jindl 05-24-04, 11:46 PM	@Limit - Ghostbusters was just on TBS last night... :D @Rayne - I think we did approve the Improved familiar feat. Also, we'll be making the change to the rules soon (remember, no psionics until June 1st...) @freemoody - Druids may not Wild Shape into advanced or templated creatures. So only the normal variety of Black Bear is available. -Jindl
barrel_master 05-25-04, 01:22 AM	I don't know who to activate next week... is lvl 9 frozen? Ha ha, I want a piece of Aemon. :)
Arstimis 05-25-04, 02:37 AM	Fight is finally up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3515328#post3515328) Next time i suggests you have a bit better tactics. This whole fight was based on the outcome of lucky rolls
Caterane 05-25-04, 09:23 AM	<= Muahahahahaaaaa After years, I finally chose a new avatar. A memorable day indeed :) @Motherbast & LLMadCow: Very good work on the stories!! I loved both and I`m looking forward to reading more from you. And also thanks to LL for this great tip :love: @all: I OPENED A NEW IMPORTANT DISCUSSION!! Please read it and participate. Thanks Here`s the link to Arena Reshape! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3516744#post3516744)
Beldin 05-25-04, 10:10 AM	if a wizard buys a blessed book can he copy the the spells from his old book?
Jindl 05-25-04, 10:12 AM	Originally posted by Beldin if a wizard buys a blessed book can he copy the the spells from his old book? Yes, for free. -Jindl
Beldin 05-25-04, 10:13 AM	thanks jindl *goes to the local bookstore*
MotherBast 05-25-04, 10:55 AM	On the D&D mainpage, the new Polly spell rules clerifacations are up. Some intresting points are that the subjects hitpoints DO change based on the new con score, and if you polly into something immune to certin things, (like acid, sleep, or criticals) then you gain that immunity as well, as all immunitys are "natural".
Beldin 05-25-04, 11:15 AM	well..., how do i calculate the money i get from selling my old spellbook?
Ethendril 05-25-04, 11:18 AM	Originally posted by Beldin well..., how do i calculate the money i get from selling my old spellbook? You look at Aku (he's got the prices on his sold items).
Beldin 05-25-04, 11:31 AM	thx
Myrridin 05-25-04, 12:21 PM	Both of my characters are ready and active for this week. I'd still like max fights.
daemones 05-25-04, 01:01 PM	I'll have Irwin updated and ready this evening. @Jindl: I'd like no fight to pitlord unless we're in dire need. Thanks!
Jindl 05-25-04, 01:11 PM	@Smergel and Kedi - Since I haven't seen any trace of you guys for almost two weeks, I'm moving you both to the inactive pitlord list. @daemones - Okay, changed to <zero> fights for this week. -Jindl
Magagumo 05-25-04, 01:35 PM	Re: Polymorph Aye, clarifications are up, and I respect Druid's wildshape "plant" much more for it. One note is that the hps changing due to Con changing are incorrect. In general, an errata of the Core Books (in which hps were stipulated to not change) overrules any other source, including the Sage (who has made errors in the past). Otherwise, everything looked good (esp. the notes on what does or does not meld), and I fear the abuse Aku can now heap on us by assuming Immunities ;)
MotherBast 05-25-04, 02:06 PM	Well, there is a disclamer in the FAQ, or in Dragon, I can't remember, that says Skip "the sage" Williams is THE D&D expert, and although he has made mistakes in the past, his answers are concidered "offical", and superceed any previous printing." So, I think he is actually correcting the earlier Errata, and this will become the "new" offical way to run Polly.
Jindl 05-25-04, 02:17 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo and I fear the abuse Aku can now heap on us by assuming Immunities ;) Regarding Aku, you shouldn't have to worry about him for a few weeks... -Jindl
Ethendril 05-25-04, 02:42 PM	The Core Coliseum World thread is finally taking shape. The purpose of the thead is to create a resource for writing stories and to help Gladius come to life. Right now it is only in skeleton format, but you can get some idea of how it is coming together. Hopefully, it will eventually feel like a sourcebook for Gladius, similar to something like the Forgotten Realms or Oriental Adventures sourcebooks. While I have some ideas for bringing this together and am willing to write a lot of the content, I'd love to see other ideas and submissions of content from others. If you have something you'd like to write about (kattattack, I know you do), then feel free to write something up and submit it. The organization of the book will be such that there should be room for just about anything. If you want to write about your favorite tavern to give it some feel, submit it (it can go in the Life in Gladius section). If you have an interesting story about your character, submit it (History section). I'd also like a list of all the best fights ever written in the arena submitted (History section). Anyway, this is the sourcebook for Gladius, so anything you want to read about can be in there. Feel free to suggest improvements, and I'd love submissions from anyone interested. -Ethendril
kedi 05-25-04, 02:47 PM	I would like to mod 2 fights this week. Plus, I had 4 credits last weeks pairings, and since I didn't mod a fight and neither had a gladiator, I should have get a credit, right?
Jindl 05-25-04, 03:19 PM	@Kedi - Okay, I set your request for 2 fights this week. Regarding last week, you gain 1 credit if you run 1 fight with 0 pcs or if you run 1 fight with 1 pc. In other words, having 0 pc's is the same as having 1 pc for credit purposes. So, no, you didn't gain a credit last week. -Jindl
kedi 05-25-04, 03:23 PM	Great. I edited my characters too, edited everything by refering to the char violations. For the first time, my char's money count is correct! :rofl:
Magagumo 05-25-04, 04:06 PM	maybe... he also screwed up several times in his FAQ, including listing a Large Quarterstaff as "1d6" damage, while listing that it grew when the caster became a Troll. Frankly, I would need to see the disclaimer, because I can't believe that they would change it back, again. More likely that Skip didn't cath the note in the Errata himself... Other Mods thoughts?
MotherBast 05-25-04, 04:13 PM	I have edited Dra'kel to make him ready. I don't know if Tellish is done with the fight, but as I am in the 12th level rank, I updated to be 12 and set ready for tomarrow, because I wont be home in time to edit before the deadline. I have the level 11 version of Dra'kel saved on my computer.
Ethendril 05-25-04, 07:19 PM	Can we buy an item from the DMG using the rules on pg. 288 and paying 50% more? For example, if I wanted to buy a vest of natural armor +1, rather than an amulet of natural armor +1, and paid 3000 gp rather than 2000 gp, it seems pretty balanced. It seems like as long as the item matched the affinity, the 50% price hike would balance it out for our purposes here. I haven't seen anyone do it, so I imagine it's off-limits, but what does everyone think about adding these items?
kattattack22 05-25-04, 07:29 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril While I have some ideas for bringing this together and am willing to write a lot of the content, I'd love to see other ideas and submissions of content from others. If you have something you'd like to write about (kattattack, I know you do), then feel free to write something up and submit it. Really? I am curious what in particular are you referring to? I am so excited about this I have no place to begin. I think the items thing should be fine. Also in the DMG it talks about adding another ability to an item for double cost. For example, you could have a ring of protection +1 and resistance +1 for 4,000 gp (2,000 ring + 1,000*2 resistance). If we allow what Ethendril proposes would we allow this as well? I don't remember exactly where it talks about this, but I will look for it and post the exact wording if no one knows what I am talking about.
MotherBast 05-25-04, 08:12 PM	This has been discussed before. Check the FAQ thread. No custom items are allowed, only the ones clearly priced in the DMG
Ethendril 05-25-04, 08:34 PM	Really? I am curious what in particular are you referring to? I am so excited about this I have no place to begin. Oh, I wasn't referring to anything in particular. You just write so much in your RP posts, and seem to be pretty creative, so I thought you might be interested in the World Thread. If you have some ideas you'd like to explore, the World Thread needs lots of content right now. This has been discussed before. Check the FAQ thread. No custom items are allowed, only the ones clearly priced in the DMG That's what I thought, but my post was really intended to open a discussion of this, not simply to ask the question...
kattattack22 05-25-04, 08:47 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Oh, I wasn't referring to anything in particular. You just write so much in your RP posts, and seem to be pretty creative, so I thought you might be interested in the World Thread. If you have some ideas you'd like to explore, the World Thread needs lots of content right now. Thanks, I try to be creative :P. I'll see what I can come up with. Probably something for the history section. The ancient races could be very interesting to explore. I really liked the Characters section. Although, it would be nice if the Current Gladiators was done like the other two. I know I introduced a couple gladiators that I didn't keep like Lucius and Worlen, but were interesting. Also my own personal NPC, Nub. We've also seen the influx of LA gladiators, two new kobolds, etc. It seems like a nice way for new people or for everyone else to get familiarized with everyone around in one central place with a little epitaph. Just a suggestion. Heck, for all I know you could be working on it and might not be done yet :).
Ethendril 05-25-04, 08:52 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 Thanks, I try to be creative :P. I'll see what I can come up with. Probably something for the history section. The ancient races could be very interesting to explore. I really liked the Characters section. Although, it would be nice if the Current Gladiators was done like the other two. I know I introduced a couple gladiators that I didn't keep like Lucius and Worlen, but were interesting. Also my own personal NPC, Nub. We've also seen the influx of LA gladiators, two new kobolds, etc. It seems like a nice way for new people or for everyone else to get familiarized with everyone around in one central place with a little epitaph. Just a suggestion. Heck, for all I know you could be working on it and might not be done yet :). Cat did all that work (with a few modifications from me). It will eventually be current.
kattattack22 05-25-04, 09:05 PM	Awesome. Now to have Arkin to discover a lost civilization (he has ranks in knowlegde: history).
Arstimis 05-25-04, 10:21 PM	@ Roster Elders: I dont really want to have to mod any fights this week...or probably for a while longer, I will have only Olinda fighting this week. Sorry Cat
^Rayne^ 05-25-04, 11:44 PM	Aiki Auk challenged Ony Akerr to a rematch and kattattack22 has accepted the challenge.
kattattack22 05-26-04, 12:09 AM	Ony did accept the challenge, RP may come later we'll see. Also, I goofed Arkin doesn't have rank in Knowledge: History got him confused with a Diviner I played once.
Boldrift-Mattock 05-26-04, 12:35 AM	I have updated my character and fixed some of the skills I have taken away what I used in my last fight and have changed what I thought might have been the couase of the RED VIOLATION! so if it can be removed I would love that. Thanks Boldrift Mattock
LLMadCow 05-26-04, 11:19 AM	@Cat / Jindl - Clio is ready for another week of combat; please edit her Win/Loss/Bump record to reflect that she has 6 Losses NOT 7. Also, I wish to run 2 fights this week. @Cat / Jindl - On behalf of MadCowTemplate, I am going to announce that he is back in the arena. He also wishes to run 2 fights this week and his new character Lorelei is posted.
Jindl 05-26-04, 11:23 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow @Cat / Jindl - On behalf of MadCowTemplate, I am going to announce that he is back in the arena. He also wishes to run 2 fights this week and his new character Lorelei is posted. I saw his character posted. Welcome back, MCT !! (PM me your email address so I can add you back as a pitlord.) -Jindl
barrel_master 05-26-04, 12:44 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast I have edited Dra'kel to make him ready. I don't know if Tellish is done with the fight, but as I am in the 12th level rank, I updated to be 12 and set ready for tomarrow, because I wont be home in time to edit before the deadline. I have the level 11 version of Dra'kel saved on my computer. I think you'll have to pull out that lvl 11 version.
Caterane 05-26-04, 12:49 PM	If the 11th league is uneven I have someone to fill the gap :devil:
barrel_master 05-26-04, 12:54 PM	Oh, excellent that big minotaur guy.
kedi 05-26-04, 12:55 PM	YA'all cat, I drew my chars from fight because I am collecting credits to bring a half-giant/half-dragon, will totally rock :) I have 4 credits, and I'll get 2 more this week. It makes 6 credits. can I make it ready for the 02-06 pairings, starting with 3 -'s of course?
playpal 05-26-04, 01:56 PM	hello i hope iv come to the right place for such a question and hopfuly someone here can help me either directly or by refering me somewhere else is there anyone who would run a campain soley for me or an open world i could jump into on the internet thank you your play pal
kedi 05-26-04, 02:14 PM	Can someone help me? I can't find the damages for huge weapons. I need Greatsword, Longsword, Greataxe and Battleaxe's damages especially.
Magagumo 05-26-04, 02:40 PM	Tori's fights are all linked, and I suppose we'll still be frozen this week. Zorander is waiting to hear if he and Pale-Rider will be redoing their combat, so he will not be fighting until I hear otherwise. This week is a bit busier for me, so only one fight please. I still like my creds, and I'm posting a new character who will need three :) Ah, I do likes the one HD characters I do *rolls eyes*
KerlanRayne 05-26-04, 03:46 PM	Originally posted by kedi Can someone help me? I can't find the damages for huge weapons. I need Greatsword, Longsword, Greataxe and Battleaxe's damages especially. 1d2 -> 1d3 -> 1d4 -> 1d6 -> 2d4/1d8 -> 1d12/2d6 -> 3d6 -> 4d6 -> 6d6 -> 8d6 -> 12d6 or 1d10 -> 2d8 -> 3d8 -> 4d8 -> 6d8 -> 8d8 -> 12d8 Hope this helps. KerlanRayne
MotherBast 05-26-04, 04:00 PM	Gerr.... there is still an issue with the Donkey vs. Drakel fight that could greatly effect the outcome. Donkey moved over 90 feet in the round he attacked me after I dispeled his fly. However, since pairings are in an hour, and I want Dra'kel to fight this week, I guess I will except this loss. I hope Donkey is willing to give me a rematch as soon as I crush whatever poor fool is put in front of me this week. I will be restoring Dra'kel to level 11, please do not disqualify me for edits after the time limit, as I just got home from work and my fight is still unresolved. The sheet will be a direct copy and past from the fight, so it shouldn't be an issue.
Jindl 05-26-04, 04:19 PM	@MotherBast - Fine with me. @MotherBast, Magagumo, and barrel_master - With the addition of Dra'kel as an active PC at 11th, that level is now an odd level. I was hoping you three would allow me to add Anna to make the level even. I've not chosen a cohort for her yet, so there won't be a cohort accompanying her. If you guys agree, she is ready now, and would only need to be set to [OK]. -Jindl
Magagumo 05-26-04, 04:26 PM	Rem, Jindl, Zorander isn't fighting until I hear from Market, so until that occurs, it seems Octavian and Dra'kel are the only active fighters there. If Market decides he doesn't want re-run our fight, then Anna and Zorander could fight (we'd make the pairing after they're all down?). If not Anna, then whoever rolls out for that level *shrug* I don't care tremendously
Jindl 05-26-04, 04:29 PM	@Cat - What is the status of the Pale-Rider vs Zorander fight? As the pitlord you have to say when it is final. Since I will be doing pairings soon, should I move Pale-Rider back to 11th level and pair him against Zorander again? Or is that fight to be considered final? I understand and respect Magagumo's position on this, but I need to hear from you since you are the pitlord on this fight. -Jindl
Caterane 05-26-04, 04:41 PM	Well, I said I`d do the rerun if Mike doesn`t mind. With all these tactical mistakes in Pale-Riders tactic it was indeed a messed up fight. Since Pale-Rider isn`t updated I`d say move him back and let me do the rerun. @Mike: I know that`s not your favorite option but had I not adepted your tactic to such a great extend, plus had followed Mag`s tactic the outcome might`ve been a different one indeed. I hope you`re not too upset but please understand my position.
Jindl 05-26-04, 04:44 PM	Okay, then I will set-up the re-run between Zorander and Pale-Rider (and erase last weeks results from their records). That leaves Dra'kel vs Octavian, and possibly Anna if there are any other level 11's that wish to fight (looks at Cat's new monster...) -Jindl
Caterane 05-26-04, 04:50 PM	Sorry Jindl. I`d really do it but 5 active characters are too much. Btw, Anna has only 1 draining touch, no matter the bab or twf
Jindl 05-26-04, 04:52 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Sorry Jindl. I`d really do it but 5 active characters are too much. Btw, Anna has only 1 draining touch, no matter the bab or twf How about we just say its a challenge match for his first fight? And she's a ghost, not a vampire. Ghost's do not have a limit on the number of draining touches they can make in a single round. (see Ghost description). A Reminder to Everyone. It is now after 9 PM GMT on Wednesday. That means no more editing of characters. Pairings will be posted before the end of the night. -Jindl
Magagumo 05-26-04, 04:58 PM	Oy! :) Thanks Cat, I do appreciate this. By the by, I have a third Psionic Character for review. If anyone posts one, please let me know- I have become very well-associated with this book over the past week, and would be happy to help audit these characters.
MotherBast 05-26-04, 05:39 PM	I am setting my charater to ready for 5/26 I am sorry I didnt have a chance before now it is 5:49pm in G.A. Thanks Boldrift
MotherBast 05-26-04, 05:41 PM	Sorry this is Boldrift on Motherbast computer and he has it set to atuo login himself... Sorry !
Boldrift-Mattock 05-26-04, 05:45 PM	There this feels much better!
Caterane 05-26-04, 05:46 PM	@Motherdrift: :uh-huh:
Boldrift-Mattock 05-26-04, 05:50 PM	Thats funny Cat but seriously:rolleyes:
Caterane 05-26-04, 06:01 PM	Only saw the first post from MB (Motherboldrift). It was a bit ...confusing but it went well, right.
freemoody 05-26-04, 10:37 PM	When buying a potion of Resist Energy don't you have to specify which type of energy the potion resists on your character sheet?
Battousai2005 05-26-04, 11:50 PM	Originally posted by freemoody When buying a potion of Resist Energy don't you have to specify which type of energy the potion resists on your character sheet? Yep. It's a rule. Normaly, via the spell, you would specify with the spell itself, but the spell is already cast with the potion.
freemoody 05-27-04, 12:48 AM	:eek:
cellardweller 05-27-04, 01:06 AM	Originally posted by freemoody When buying a potion of Resist Energy don't you have to specify which type of energy the potion resists on your character sheet? [quote]srd The character taking the potion doesn’t get to make any decisions about the effect —the caster who brewed the potion has already done so [quote] So yep, it is required. As Shiaan is one of the offenders (and probably the one you were refering to) - read it as Resist Electricity.
Hatzinger 05-27-04, 01:44 AM	Originally posted by freemoody When buying a potion of Resist Energy don't you have to specify which type of energy the potion resists on your character sheet? 1) I´d say that the potion only holds the spell, 99,9% finished in casting. The action of drinking the spell completes it and thus casts it on the drinker. 2) The resist/protection from X spells rely on one sentence written in the description of protection from X: [...] to the type of energy you specify when you cast it [...]. 3) So i argue that the potion-user can decide it as he drinks the potion.
Arstimis 05-27-04, 01:57 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger 1) I´d say that the potion only holds the spell, 99,9% finished in casting. The action of drinking the spell completes it and thus casts it on the drinker. 2) The resist/protection from X spells rely on one sentence written in the description of protection from X: [...] to the type of energy you specify when you cast it [...]. 3) So i argue that the potion-user can decide it as he drinks the potion. Let me hand you a bottle of pepsi that i made. Now you tell me that when you go to drink that it isnt pepsi anymore. Once a potion is made, it is made, and cant be changed. If it can be changed then it was never fully made in the first place oh..and what cellardweller said
Myrridin 05-27-04, 08:45 AM	Arstimis: Agreed. Once the potion's made, it's set. That means that the type of energy it protects against is set as well. Otherwise, that's a pretty damn good deal for a potion of resist energy.
Arstimis 05-27-04, 10:05 AM	Anyone see Jindl around here lately.....
SnarkHunter 05-27-04, 10:21 AM	I find this lack of pairing disturbing.
freemoody 05-27-04, 10:39 AM	I hope Jindl's okay. He could have been in an accident or...or worse:weep: But we can't let that disrupt the game. It's only 10:38am at Jindl's house. What do you say we give him 4 more hours, and then someone else does pairings?
Caterane 05-27-04, 10:55 AM	@all: This is a sad day for the arena. As a game master, it is my duty to inform you that Jindl has been eaten alive by his piranha fish when he drank from the water. May he rest in peace and I hope the hell isn`t as bad as all say.
Myrridin 05-27-04, 10:58 AM	Yeah, I was just going to comment on the lack of pairings for today as well. I say we give until noon EST today, I know it's only 1 more hour, but if we want to stay on schedule, we need the pairings soon.
Jindl 05-27-04, 11:02 AM	I hate piranha's. Pairings are under way. -Jindl
Beldin 05-27-04, 11:12 AM	:heehee
Myrridin 05-27-04, 11:41 AM	Glad to see that you fought off the paranaha's Jindl. :)
kedi 05-27-04, 11:46 AM	Originally posted by Jindl I hate piranha's. Pairings are under way. -Jindl :rofl: "I hope the hell isn`t as bad as all say." :rofl: lmao
MysticMonk2005 05-27-04, 11:58 AM	I thought druids loved all of nature. :D
playpal 05-27-04, 12:11 PM	hello i hope iv come to the right place for such a question and hopfuly someone here can help me either directly or by refering me somewhere else is there anyone who would run a campain soley for me or an open world i could jump into on the internet thank you your play pal
Pitlords 05-27-04, 12:21 PM	Pairings are Done. 1. Tactics Due Friday 2. Fights with Tactics may be posted starting Friday. 3. Fights may be run Saturday using Default Tactics. 4. Fights are Due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. Also, the following players edited character sheets after 9 pm GMT on Wed. Since this is the first week of this deadline, I am making an exception. From next week on, this rule will be strictly enforced: - nagilfarswake - Captain Mutilate - Boldrift-Mattock - MotherBast - Tellish_of_Ket Good luck to everyone fighting this week! Watch out for piranha's ... -Jindl
MysticMonk2005 05-27-04, 12:34 PM	if Dante Ironfist, Captain Mutilate would like to fight, I can activate Pard if there are any willing Pitlords. (I would like to have atleast one fight this week)
Beldin 05-27-04, 12:54 PM	@freemoody: nahil's tactics have been send! @kaigan: delayars tactics have been send! both by e-mail :D I was first!!!
freemoody 05-27-04, 01:00 PM	@ Elders: Lillith's opponent this week (Shiaan), has a "potion of Resist Energy" listed in her equiptment. CellerDweller noted this last night and said to consider it a Resist Electricity potion. If I had known that Shiaan had a potion of Resist Electricity then I would have changed my Memorized Spells and/or bought new equiptment in reguard to that. I would suggest that Shiaan not be able to use the potion during the fight. Or that I be able to update my character to account for the potion.
Jindl 05-27-04, 02:25 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 if Dante Ironfist, Captain Mutilate would like to fight, I can activate Pard if there are any willing Pitlords. (I would like to have atleast one fight this week) Make him ready, I'll run the fight. If Captain Mutilate doesn't want to have Dante vs Pard, then we can cancel the fight later. -Jindl
Ethendril 05-27-04, 02:45 PM	@Jindl: Tactics sent for Vaarkalikax. @Tellish: Tactics sent for Dusk.
MysticMonk2005 05-27-04, 03:13 PM	Pard is labled as ready
freemoody 05-27-04, 04:17 PM	Reguarding Shiaan's Resist Energy potion: You Must specify which type of energy it resists when you buy it. I didn't know which type of energy it resists when I made my character ready so I couldn't prepare for it. I would have changed my Pre-Memorized spells if I had known which type of potion it was. Shiaan would have an advantage if she's allowed to use that potion.
SnarkHunter 05-27-04, 04:21 PM	Regarding the pairings at 12th level-just wondering if you rolled for them jindl? As far as I know neither Kelek nor Donkey accepted their respective challenges. Its not really huge, Donkey just didn't have any particular urge to fight one Cat char over the other...
Myrridin 05-27-04, 04:24 PM	Jindl: Tactics for Zephin sent. Kedi: Tactics for Rowan sent. No tactics have been received yet.
Jindl 05-27-04, 04:57 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Regarding the pairings at 12th level-just wondering if you rolled for them jindl? As far as I know neither Kelek nor Donkey accepted their respective challenges. Its not really huge, Donkey just didn't have any particular urge to fight one Cat char over the other... Kelek accepted. I should have listed Donkey's match as a "vs" instead of a "chllngs". -Jindl
Jindl 05-27-04, 05:03 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 Pard is labled as ready Okay, so I just found out that Dante was bumped to 5th level after his lost last week. He is still the odd man out (he rolled out), but he is not a viable opponent for Pard. Perhaps you could set Sarah ready (and fix her violation) and Captain Mutilate would accept a pairing of Dante against Sarah? I would be happy to run that fight. -Jindl
Jindl 05-27-04, 05:09 PM	Originally posted by freemoody Reguarding Shiaan's Resist Energy potion: You Must specify which type of energy it resists when you buy it. I didn't know which type of energy it resists when I made my character ready so I couldn't prepare for it. I would have changed my Pre-Memorized spells if I had known which type of potion it was. Shiaan would have an advantage if she's allowed to use that potion. At the moment, I am waiting for cellardwellar to respond. Perhaps he would allow you switch out call lightning and that way the elder's wouldn't need to make a decision on this (I don't know what we would decide). Keep in mind, cellar didn't know that he had to state the potion either. That ruling came after character edits were over. -Jindl
Beldin 05-27-04, 05:42 PM	@Kaigan: completed my tactics via email
SnarkHunter 05-27-04, 06:35 PM	Ah figured it might have been something like that. Just didn;t see it in the subject lines. Well I'll see about doing tactics after my flesh and blood game tonight.
Magagumo 05-27-04, 06:40 PM	Cat and ToK- I plan on running your fight tomorrow @CAt I'll have Zorander's new tactics tonight or tomorrow afternoon.
barrel_master 05-27-04, 07:19 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Ah figured it might have been something like that. Just didn;t see it in the subject lines. Well I'll see about doing tactics after my flesh and blood game tonight. Flesh and blood game? Is that to say that you're going to don armor and draw a sword against some evil kobalt?
^Rayne^ 05-27-04, 07:19 PM	Myrridin, I have PMed Aiki Auks tactics to you. I look forward to reading the match. Ony Akerr was Aiki Auks first opponent and defeat. Aiki challenged him to see if things might turn out differently this time. Let the SLUG FEST BEGIN! :) :D
MysticMonk2005 05-27-04, 07:26 PM	ok, Pard is Innactive, Sarah is ready and I believe that I fixed the violations.
Caterane 05-27-04, 07:30 PM	Mike wishes a rematch...a chance to regain his fallen honor. I have thus decided to accept perhaps a very fool-hardy challenge in accepting his challenge from Svenn. It is a very important fight for both of us and there is lots riding on this fight. Challenge Accepted: vs Svenn Requested Pitlord: Caterane The reason to request cat is because it's a fight vs two friends, and i want it to be as fair and impartial as possible. I trust his moderation. -ToK Jindl, please make the appropriate change, plus the things I wrote in the PM. Thanks Cat
Jindl 05-27-04, 09:09 PM	Please see the following changes in pairings: Level 2 Twyll Talaviir, Kaigan vs Lorelei, MadCowTemplate: Kazzaroth Pan'theon Level 5 The Voiceless, Limit vs Private Gyle, Alterlat: Battousai2005 Sarah Longfellow, MysticMonk2005 vs Dante Ironfist, Captain Mutilate: ^Rayne^ Level 7 Sven Enno, Market_Share chllngs Brock Granitehand, Tellish_of_Ket: Caterane Matei of the Barren Flats, Kaigan vs Jo'Li, Mercy: Myrridin These changes should be final. If you are involved in one of the pairings above, please ensure your tactics are sent to the correct pitlord. -Jindl
cellardweller 05-27-04, 09:12 PM	Originally posted by Jindl At the moment, I am waiting for cellardwellar to respond. Perhaps he would allow you switch out call lightning and that way the elder's wouldn't need to make a decision on this (I don't know what we would decide). Keep in mind, cellar didn't know that he had to state the potion either. That ruling came after character edits were over. -Jindl The potion was purchased for the express purpose of countering Lillith's call lightning, so I don't believe that disallowing the potion would be fair. But I would have no problems with Lillith swapping the out the pre-declared spell out for something else.
kattattack22 05-27-04, 09:16 PM	Ony's tactics sent to Myrridin via email. Arkin's tactics sent to Jindl via email. None received, yet.
Jindl 05-27-04, 09:19 PM	Originally posted by cellardweller The potion was purchased for the express purpose of countering Lillith's call lightning, so I don't believe that disallowing the potion would be fair. But I would have no problems with Lillith swapping the out the pre-declared spell out for something else. @freemoody - Is this an acceptable solution to you? If so, you can change the prememm'd call lightning spell for a different pre-memm'd spell. As I understand it, there's nothing else on your character that should change. Is this cool with you? -Jindl
Battousai2005 05-27-04, 09:57 PM	A new character, Cante, Lord of the Black Flame, is replacing Kith Deathscythe. Sigh. Poor Kith. So young. So pointless...
freemoody 05-27-04, 10:26 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @freemoody - Is this an acceptable solution to you? If so, you can change the prememm'd call lightning spell for a different pre-memm'd spell. As I understand it, there's nothing else on your character that should change. Is this cool with you? -Jindl Acceptable. Sorry I made a big fuss about such a small matter.
Battousai2005 05-27-04, 10:31 PM	@TOK: Tactics send for Kage. @Jindl: Megaraptor...Ok. Just send the
freemoody 05-27-04, 10:39 PM	@ LLMadCow: Tactics for Lillith sent via PM and E-Mail. @Beldin: Tactics recieved. @nagilfarswake: Tactics not recieved.
MysticMonk2005 05-27-04, 10:47 PM	Tactics sent via PM to ^Rayne^ for Sarah Vs Dante
^Rayne^ 05-27-04, 11:02 PM	Mystic Monk 2005, please check your PM account. I have sent you and your opponent a Pitlording Proposal for the arena you will fight in. I only became aware of the switch a few minutes ago, but I am already up to speed on the changes.
MysticMonk2005 05-27-04, 11:54 PM	reply sent. and i will gladly go with your idea.
Jindl 05-28-04, 12:03 AM	Tactics sent for Rhoar. Tactics recieved for Zephin, Arkin, and Vaarkalikax. Waiting on tactics for Cliodhna, Grym, and Ixidor. -Jindl
daemones 05-28-04, 02:34 AM	Tactics sent for Irwin vs Delayar via PM.
Myrridin 05-28-04, 08:25 AM	Tactics for Ony Akerr, Aiki Auk, and Jo'Li have been received.
Beldin 05-28-04, 10:41 AM	tactics received from tair
Ethendril 05-28-04, 11:17 AM	@MotherBast I'd appreciate Dra'kel's tactics as soon as you can get them to me. With Memorial Day weekend, I'm not sure when I'm going to run the fight, so I'd like to get started today if possible. Thanks. -Ethendril
Myrridin 05-28-04, 11:45 AM	Q) What happens when two pure melee fighters duke it out? A) The easiest fight to run ever! Aiki Auk vs Ony Akerr (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3546395#post3546395)
Mercy 05-28-04, 01:09 PM	I've got a question on how the "augmented subtypes" gained while polymorphed can be applied. According to the Rules of the Game-Polymorphing (Part Three) The subject temporarily gains the type and subtypes of the assumed form. The subject also temporarily gains the augmented subtype for its original type. The subject loses any subtypes it has in favor of the assumed form's subtypes. For example, a human turned into a troll gains the giant type and the augmented humanoid subtype. The subject retains the features of its own type. It gains the traits of the assumed type -- except for any extraordinary qualities included in those traits. If you're having trouble deciding which type of traits you gain, here's a list of what you get and what you don't. Can you cast a spell that has a limited target of "One humaniod creature" if your "augmented subtype" is humaniod that would affect your polymorphed form. The example: Would be Jo'Li a Duergar wild shapes into a Black Bear and then uses the his Spell-Like Ability Enlarge Person (and or cast the spell Enlarge Person), would the Black Bear increase from medium size to large? @Myrridin - go ahead and run the fight between Jo'Li and Matei using your ruling. I thought I'd just throw this out and find out what others thought.
Jindl 05-28-04, 01:21 PM	Originally posted by Mercy I've got a question on how the "augmented subtypes" gained while polymorphed can be applied. According to the Rules of the Game-Polymorphing (Part Three) Can you cast a spell that has a limited target of "One humaniod creature" if your "augmented subtype" is humaniod that would affect your polymorphed form. The example: Would be Jo'Li a Duergar wild shapes into a Black Bear and then uses the his Spell-Like Ability Enlarge Person (and or cast the spell Enlarge Person), would the Black Bear increase from medium size to large? Augmented subtypes have no game effect. In your example, Jo'Li is of the animal type. His subtype as an augmented humanoid only exists to explain why he doesn't have animal HD, bab, saves, and skills. His type is animal and the augmented humanoid subtype has no bearing on any effects. He would not grow in size from Enlarge Person. This info can be found in the MM glossary where they discuss augmented subtypes. It has also been a topic in the FAQ. -Jindl
Myrridin 05-28-04, 01:59 PM	Originally posted by Mercy @Myrridin - go ahead and run the fight between Jo'Li and Matei using your ruling. I thought I'd just throw this out and find out what others thought. Jindl: Thanks for the better explanation than I had. I was just going to point to the MM, and go from there. Animal Growth is there for a reason, and if a druid could get around the restriction by casting a 1st level spell...not bad. :) Mercy: I'd run the fight, but I'm still waiting for Matei's (Kaigan's) tactics for it.
Jindl 05-28-04, 02:12 PM	@Mercy - The enlarge person (sp) might not work. But when psionics are introduced next week, you could switch Jo'Li over as a psionic duergar, which would give him the expansion power. Expansion is not limited to type, and would work while you are in wildshape. Just an idea. -Jindl
KerlanRayne 05-28-04, 02:41 PM	Cyric Tor has been recreated as a Psionic character for next week. Please review. KerlanRayne
Hatzinger 05-28-04, 04:23 PM	@Limit: Tactics for Heinrich sent via email. Please confirm the arrival.
MotherBast 05-28-04, 05:34 PM	My very bad tactics for Dra'kel have been sent. Not much time to plan this week.
Magagumo 05-28-04, 05:47 PM	Zorander's tactics for Pale-Rider re-fight have been sent. Kelek's tactics recieved but waiting on Ebelin's
Battousai2005 05-28-04, 06:05 PM	Tactics recieved for Rhoar and Gyle. Waiting on last sender...
Jindl 05-28-04, 06:16 PM	Arkin vs Vaarkalikax posted. -Jindl
Mercy 05-28-04, 07:12 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Mercy - The enlarge person (sp) might not work. But when psionics are introduced next week, you could switch Jo'Li over as a psionic duergar, which would give him the expansion power. Expansion is not limited to type, and would work while you are in wildshape. Just an idea. -Jindl I'm thinking it over I haven't delved into the EPH enough to know if it's worth it or not. That's my "To Do" for this week-end.
Caterane 05-28-04, 07:29 PM	I`ve sent tactics for Prof. Dre. I`m sending Ixidor`s, Harvester, and Ebelin tomorow. Sorry, had to work 12 hours today.
Arstimis 05-28-04, 07:29 PM	@Kat: Tactics for Olinad have been sent
Magagumo 05-28-04, 07:30 PM	@Cat no prob @Kerlan Few errors for ya, check violations for the details
kattattack22 05-28-04, 07:39 PM	@Arstimis - Tactics received. Still waiting for tactics from Boldrift. @Myrridin and Rayne - Good fight. It was so nice to see Ony do what he was built to do (TWF I mean). EDIT: @Jindl and Ethendril - Fun fight as well. The story was neat too.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-28-04, 08:26 PM	Tactics for Twyll Talaviir received. I wait tactics for Lorelei appear. Just public notice; My email has caused some trouble, and also it will be shutted down tmeporalily because my membership payment is late, so send tactics via PM. I wonder why my char is not figthing in this week? After all Vryk is not challenged nor haves Violation and if I remeber correctly, it is active in this week............
^Rayne^ 05-28-04, 10:23 PM	quote by kattattack22 Myrridin and Rayne - Good fight. It was so nice to see Ony do what he was built to do (TWF I mean). I agree it was a good fight. Thanks Myrridin for running it. I was happy to finally have Aiki Auk slug it out with another melee specialist. I'm surprised I thought you would have Ony get more buffed up with potions, but I see you went the same route I went, which was to fight it with his favored weapons and see who's study prevailed in the end. Two builds couldn't be much closer than these two. We will have to have another fight down the road, like say when they reach 14th level or so. Some how I get the feeling this won't be the last time they clash in the arena. ;)
^Rayne^ 05-28-04, 10:26 PM	Kazzaroth Pan'theon, Vryk wasn't active this week. I alternate my two kobolds with one another. I only make one active a week. This week was Aiki Auk's turn. If you want Vryk and your PC can fight this next week that Vryk is set for. If you want to make sure of this pairing than offer it as a challenge and I will agree to it. Rayne
Boldrift-Mattock 05-28-04, 10:52 PM	I have sent tactices to KATT and I hope they reach you this time thank you for running the fight and I hope you have fun with it. Well as much fun as can be had out of a lvl 4 fight. Thanks again, Boldrift Mattock
Kaigan 05-28-04, 11:10 PM	All tactics sent. All tactics received. Fight will be up Sunday night.
freemoody 05-28-04, 11:58 PM	nagilfarswake edited his character Vlak Stonecrush on 05-27-04 at 09:01 PM (Central Time), about 10 hours after pairings were finished. That means Vlak loses right? nagilfarswake probably didn't know that rule. And his equiptment didn't change at all as far as I could tell.
SnarkHunter 05-29-04, 12:48 AM	Mercy: Sall right if I send tactics tomorrow? V. tired right now.
Limit 05-29-04, 01:14 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger @Limit: Tactics for Heinrich sent via email. Please confirm the arrival. Originally posted by Caterane I`ve sent tactics for Prof. Dre. Received both. Sent tactics for The Voiceless.
Pitlords 05-29-04, 04:40 AM	@all: From next week on using the ONLINE ROLLER is mandatory!! Any fight not done with the online roller has to be rerun! Additionally, pitlords have to fulfill certain standards when posting their fights: An end of round summary which lists Name, positions, hitpoints, spells and effects on this gladiator including duration; in this order. A general link to the online rolls. Additionally the rolls must be written in the various rounds, or linked to the online rolls. Character sheets and Tactics must be posted ABOVE the fight, not below. These have to be either quoted or coded to make it clear where they end and where the next one begins. Pitlords who don`t fulfill these standards may get penalties which result in their sitting out for a week or two. The next two weeks are still a period of grace but you should still make sure the new rules are enacted. Cat
Pitlords 05-29-04, 04:56 AM	@all: Thanks for all the participation in the Arena Reshape thread. As it is now it seems that there are two opinions, the ones that want a complex arena, and the ones that want to keep it simple. Both sides have one in common: it`s based on their opinion alone. Since we are not going to find it out before we test it, why not do so? From next week on maps posted on the "Arena reshape" thread may be used in fights if both gladiators and a GM approves it. I`d advice those who want to test their arenas to ask for players who want to give it a try. I hope this encourages more people to post maps and rewards those that post theirs. If we finally choose one map created by a member we may even reward him by adding his name on the roster. "Arena architect" or something. Cat
Pitlords 05-29-04, 04:58 AM	@all: From next week on the central pillar will be installed and has to be used. Fights run without the central pillar have to be rerun. I am going to post a second map on the roster which will take the place of the first map from tuesday (1st June) on. Cat Edit: The central pillar has been made cross-shaped. A massive central pillar would rob too much space and a north/south cross will allow gladiators to get to a shooting position easily. I am however open to suggestions.
LLMadCow 05-29-04, 05:43 AM	Well, if the online roller and everything posted is to become mandantory, I will never run another fight after this week. This saddens me as there are no other, common, ways to earn credits. I guess I will have to be judicial in how I spend my points. To be quite honest with you, I am one of those guys who spends FOREVER running a fight. Honest. It is a huge effort, and adding in the online dice roller and always having time to post all of the required information in the required format... bah. I do my best to track everything nice and neat and log the info whenever I can. Maybe you find it easy, but I do not. I participate in running fights for two reasons - 1 do enjoy participating in the arena beyond just being a player and 2 - I like to have credits to play new and creative characters. More restrictive means less people. People like flexibility, and frankly when you announce THIS IS OUR SANDBOX, PLAY BY OUR RULES, AND BE FORCED TO ACCEPT WHATEVER NEW ONES WE MAKE UP ON THE FLY, more people will leave. I was NOT IMPRESSED with the new ruling of all edits must be done by a certain fixed time, as opposed to the previous - edit until pairings are posted. I can understand the reasoning based on what transpired, but this is a more appropriate rule for the person(s) posting the roster! So, it has been fun while it lasted, and let me point out that with such high requirements for ECL, and everyone wanting to play higher characters, no one is running as many fights as they wanted. Drop the ECL cost for a while, get more PCs into the arena, and then raise it again. Think of it like a sale. People will always want new characters, and this just allows a 'market' attitude to the running of the arena. I really do not know what to say. I have been here. I have come and gone, but always returned. If this is what it comes to, I may leave completely... I just don't know. EDIT Some of this comes down to an issue of trust. I trust EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in the arena, until I have some reason not to. I have NEVER liked electronic rollers. I am a collector of dice and stand behind them 100% 300+ Dice cannot be wrong - at least the odds are against them being wrong. :)
Jindl 05-29-04, 08:01 AM	Originally posted by freemoody nagilfarswake edited his character Vlak Stonecrush on 05-27-04 at 09:01 PM (Central Time), about 10 hours after pairings were finished. That means Vlak loses right? nagilfarswake probably didn't know that rule. And his equiptment didn't change at all as far as I could tell. @freemoody - nagil, motherbast, tellish, boldrift, and a couple of others all violated the 9 PM GMT rule this week. Since it was the first week, I gave amnesty on this. Also, each of them pm'd/emailed/or posted to me that they were late and just needed to change their subject to read "ready for". So, for this week, it will be okay. Next week, that rule will be much more strictly enforced. -Jindl
MotherBast 05-29-04, 08:36 AM	if the online roller "must" be used, I will also have to retire from pitlording. The one fight I ran with to online roller took me at least twice as long as it would have with dice. I just don't have that kind of time. Why this change by the way? I never saw any discussion on this matter, and have never seen this asked for by anyone?
kedi 05-29-04, 08:39 AM	q: Now can I use the second map for the fight I am moding? And I protest the use of online dice, too, as llmadcow. I am not going to leave though, but I can't see a reason to use online dice. I could mod fights even at schools (I did some of them) and even if I didn't have dice, I'd ask for my friends to say a number between 1 and 20. Flexibility. "OD only!" rule just stinks. I will use online dice from now on however, as a coco pitlord, I wanted to tell you guys my thoughts on the new rule. EDIT: [On second thought] I will mod this week's fight, and a few fights more and retire being a pitlord after I get enough creddits for my Chaotica. It takes hours to use the online dice and I just can't effort that.
MotherBast 05-29-04, 08:43 AM	Actually, unless something has changed or I just missed a vote in the elder thread, I don't think this whole "online roller must be used" rule can be concidered offical as NOONE short of MO could make that kind of change to the rules without putting it to a vote. I will not be using the online roller in any fight I run untill this idea goes through the process that is required before becoming offical. Should it ever actually become official, then I will have to stop pitlording, which sux, cause I enjoy it.
kattattack22 05-29-04, 08:45 AM	@Boldrift - Tactics received. I agree with LLMadCow on requiring a online roller. I started pitlording since I have no games for the summer (*sigh*). I wanted to get some use out of my dice and keep up on the rules while I languish in inactivity. I am not going to leave or stop pitlording over it, but please don't require an online roller. I trust the pitlords and never have bothered to look at the records for an online roller. I do agree with including the end of the round summary. It's not hard to do its just a copy, paste, and edit.
kedi 05-29-04, 09:01 AM	Originally posted by MotherBast Actually, unless something has changed or I just missed a vote in the elder thread, I don't think this whole "online roller must be used" rule can be concidered offical as NOONE short of MO could make that kind of change to the rules without putting it to a vote. I will not be using the online roller in any fight I run untill this idea goes through the process that is required before becoming offical. Should it ever actually become official, then I will have to stop pitlording, which sux, cause I enjoy it. Great, playing in the game. Yes I wonder if this rule is official just because cat and jindl told so. I will use normal dice too for this week and until the rules become official. I will quit pitlording then. click <<here>> (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=248628) for the debate which cat should have opened before making up some rules.
LLMadCow 05-29-04, 11:19 AM	@All - Please take the following statement in the humorous light it is intended.... In light of the protests against Caterane's recent PitLords postings and the responses given..... Americans - Standing up against Germans since the 1900's!
Alterlat 05-29-04, 11:36 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow @All - Please take the following statement in the humorous light it is intended.... In light of the protests against Caterane's recent PitLords postings and the responses given..... Americans - Standing up against Germans since the 1900's! Of course, sometimes they react faster than they do other times. As for the new fight restrictions, I feel they're pretty needless. Most Pitlords are very conscientious as it is. By all means encourage people to use the online roller, but these rules are overly pedantic. I'm satisfied as long as the Pitlords include the sheets and tactics, and give a round-by-round breakdown, and I don't really care what order they do it in.
freemoody 05-29-04, 11:41 AM	Vlak Stoncrush(Dwarf Fighter 2), nagilfarswake vs. Nahil Kremso (Human Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Warhorse 1), Beldin is posted Spoiler: The Warhorse lost.
Magagumo 05-29-04, 12:06 PM	Can't say I will be using the online roller either. If that invalidates the fights I run, then you're going to have a lot of fights in error until you ask me to stop pitlording. Sorry guys, I love this place, but don't make our lives that much more difficult by suggesting that you don't trust our rolls/honesty as pitlords and make us use that complicated, slow device. Tactics from Ebelin v. Kelek recieved, the fight will be run by hand when I'm done other obligations. Edit: I approve of the need for a general round summary, but I don't think we need to dictate every aspect of a pitlord's fight if they satisfy the general reqs: Who fought? How did they fight? Exactly what did they do to win or lose? Surpressing creativity and forcing everyone to present their fights in the same way is bull-headed and unnecessary. The Arena Bard should understand such things...
Jindl 05-29-04, 01:17 PM	Some things that you all need to understand: 1. It's not that Cat or I question anyone's honesty. The decision by us as Game Masters (@MotherBast - this is not an Elder's decision) is based on a couple of facts. I'll list them below, and then open the floor to any suggestions you guys have for an alternative way of dealing with this problem: a. As the person who does pairings, I have received no less than 10 distinct and ongoing requests by different people to not have <insert name> as a pitlord. It's different players asking to not have different pitlords in most of these requests. And the main reason given is a general feeling that the pitlord might be biased. If I try to honor all these requests, then assigning pitlords becomes complicated to the point where it is almost impossible. If pitlords document the rolls through an online roller, then any player's fears of bias should be removed. b. As our game has grown, we have had players introduce roomates and best friends to the CoCo. There is an inherent appearance of bias when a roomate or best friend is assigned to run your fight. Despite the fact that I think Snarkhunter has great integrity, there is still an appearance of bias if I assign him to run one of Magagumo's fights. The same could be said for Boldrift and MotherBast, LLMadCow and MadCowTemplate, Battousai and the other 3 best friends of his group, etc. Documenting the rolls through an online roller erases the appearance of bias. c. People often complain of critical hits, or having bad luck on the dice. Such complaints are usually made with a tone of skepticism, like the player doesn't really believe that the dice really rolled that result. Putting the rolls where everyone can see them is an easy way to verify that yes, he actually did roll a crit for nearly max damage. If you guys have a better alternative to address and settle these issues than using an online dice roller, I'd love to hear it. Personally, I use the dice roller often and it really doesn't take me that much longer. I ran Arkin vs the Lichking last night in about 2 hours, using the online roller and writing a story to go with it. And that fight was almost 20 rounds long. So, I will say that once you have used the online roller a few times, your speed with it will increase greatly. This doesn't help those of you who run fights at school or away from the internet (on a laptop for example), which is one of the reasons why I hope you all will give us some alternative ways to deal with Issues A-C. 2. Cat's announcement (which was made with my full approval and backing, btw) also included a statement about the standards that will soon be applied to pitlording. Displaying die rolls and modifiers, end of round positions and status of characters, tactics and character sheets, these things are all mandatory and will be enforced. Personally, I don't care if the tactics and sheets are at the beginning or end (and we'll likely remove that restriction) as long as they are included. But too many fights do not include these things. As a player, I would feel cheated if my pitlord didn't display these things and I didn't understand how the fight progressed. Remember, we are trying to test builds, and this information is critical to that. Also, the pitlords who often neglect these items then turn around and ask for multiple fights to gain credits. So now even more players will be subjected to incomplete fights. That is why this standards are going into effect. The penalty for not meeting these standards (and I'm not including the dice roller in this statement, only the displaying of all rolls and modifiers, end of round positions and status, and tactics and sheets), this penalty will be the same as if you had submitted a late fight. You will get a negative credit and you will not be able to pitlord for 2 weeks. These standards have existed for a long time. But lately they have been ignored again and again. With this penalty in place, hopefully that will not happen anymore. As a note: a penalty due to failing to meet standards must be decided by a 2 out of 3 decision by the game masters (since it is a issue related to running of the game). Having tried to give you all an understanding of the reasons behind our decision, I would like to open the floor here in the tavern for suggestions for alternatives to using the online roller. Do not bother offering suggestions against the standards and penalty, because that is staying. But if you can offer a good alternative to settle Issues A-C without using the online roller, we are open to your ideas. -Jindl
Captain Mutilate 05-29-04, 01:24 PM	I agree with Magagumo. I doubt that anyone's complained about my honesty or being biased. Granted, I do make mistakes in fights, and if someone wants it redone, I'll do it. I refuse to use an online roller when I have my own dice available. If I lose credits, then fine. If I have to step down as a pitlord, fine. If we have those few who don't want certain people as pitlords, that's their choice. Just because of their lack of trust for certain pitlords doesn't mean that all pitlords are untrustworthy. If they want to complain, they should complain to the pitlord. I do my best to post fights as the status quo and can accept penalties for not doing them right, but not for using my own dice.
Magagumo 05-29-04, 01:34 PM	Aye, I can understand the appearance of bias, Jindl, I've noted I haven't run one of Sanrk's fights in awhile, though one can note that Bilo has both won and lost at my MOdding (and Moon-moon has not fared well), I can understand people's reluctance. Frankly, I would like to state that the issue of people requesting to not have certain Mods, and the issue that people believe fight results to be skewed, needed to be discussed prior to this determination by the GMS. No offense, but as you can see, when a grand declaration is made "from on high," a lot of people feel like they have no control or say in this group activity in which they share. To my count, I see 6 people stating they will stop pitlording, and two (including myself) who will stick to their own dice. Honestly, I don't think the online roller is the solution. I think it is critical that all rolls be typed out (as has become standard practice here), but I simply do not think method of die-rolling can be universely applied. I'm presuming you have DSL or such, Jindl, but a lot of people have cited bad connections or 56k modems, making the ponderous online program stall out the fight even more. I'm afraid I can't give you solutions, because there are no simple ones here. In the end, this is a matter of trust, not between Elders and Mods, but between players and MOds, a generalized dissension amongst the whole community. What we honestly need to do is air out all complaints in a civilized and moderated manner. Rather than request not to have a Mod to Jindl behind the Mod's back, state to them why you have a difficulty with how they run things. Perhaps the Elder Mods can establish a "dsicussion forum" where private PMs to the Mods are edited and displayed to show the concerns at hand. In other words, players with problems can PM their complaints and have them posted anonymously, where the offending Mod can be informed of the issue and discussion can then begin on how to correct the faults, percieved or otherwise, It won't be easy, but this is not a simple issue of die rolling, this is an issue of trust and respect within the community.
Battousai2005 05-29-04, 01:39 PM	@All: You want an example of someone who sticks with it? Look at Limit. I have modded for Voiceless no less than 3 times. Unfortunately, he lost those fights. Anyone see him complain (aside from the minor "Darn your monk hating dice!") No. In fact, I'm modding again this week for him. @Jindl: Ok, so you question helping a friend or downing an enemy. Some things you have to consider here is that most of us try to be more fair than usual when we are modding for our friends because we didn't want something like this to occur. Granted, it happened anyway, but it still makes little sense to use an online roller. Ok, you say it doesn't take much more time. Try it with a $35 56k modem that is absolutely screwed and doesn't always work when you hit the back button. I get screwed here because my computer doesn't work. My friends will attest to this. I often get logged off and have to reboot my computer. Bye-bye rolls and its back to initative. Oh, and did I mention I cant get to the reccomended online roller? Not fun. Worried about people requesting pitlords? Ok, simple solution: don't do it anymore. Oh, and to let you know, no one believes bad luck. But here is the part that we have to understand: it happens. Neither MysticMonk nor I complained when Kith fought Drahk. The amout of luck on both sides was near idiocy. So people are skeptical. Deal. Real life example: I missed getting a date to prom twice by less than 2 hours. Luck. (This sucked, but I went to the dance anyway. Alone. :sad: ) The other standards I understand and have always (i think) included in my fights, though for me, it is more a reminder to my poor memory. Not really suggestions on how to change, but an explination as to why I will retire if the die roller rule is placed. The thing that sucks is that I really like to do it but can't due to reasons beyond my control. Unless someone can come up with another die roller site I can access, I'm gone.
SnarkHunter 05-29-04, 01:49 PM	Tactics for Donkey sent. No tactics recieved but then I'm not scheduled to have any fights so that isn't to surprising. I would like to try out this online roller before I make a decison. But then I have a very fast connection so I don't imagine using it will extend the length of my fights significantly.
Battousai2005 05-29-04, 01:49 PM	Oh, I don't think anyone saw, but Kith has retired. I replaced him with a psionic character. Just to let you know...
MotherBast 05-29-04, 02:21 PM	While I completly understand your concerns Jindl, and agree with everything in point 2, (that stuff has always been required, and its good its finaly being enforced) my only problem is with the Dice Roller. I will not use it. I also don't have the best connection in the world, and it is just simply a hassel. I have used it once before, and I hated it. Its a fine program, but too slow, espically when human error is factored into the equasion. secondly, being a Fight Master is a responsibility given to you to help in maintaining the opperation of the bord. It is not a position of athority in the COCO in any way/shape/or form. Being a fight master does not make your words or ideas carry any more weight that mine, limits, or Snarks, just to name a few examples. Any decision about the rules must be made through a vote. The only exception was when MO enforced the Half your spells rule. I don't think even MO would make a change to the arena without a vote now, though if push came to shove, he is the only person who has any right to do so.
kedi 05-29-04, 02:42 PM	It’s not democratic! “Board Administration counts as running 1 fight (for Caterane, Jindl, Tellish_of_Ket, and Moherajikuyx.)” This means they open polls, bring the pairings, keep the threads, close threads, enforce rules, etc etc. No mention of ability to make new rules. If cat was in authority to post those anouncements, it means ToK can say that” from now on only rogues are avaible to play” and we’d be enforced. Plus, it wasn’t even a discussion. No one has ever complained aobut it but ::dang:: “Here be the new rules! Be obey!” DM is in charge! Behind the screen, DM is in authority to anything he wants. He never shows his PCs the rolls he make unless he wants so. He could even say the attack missed even if it was a death-hit. He can change the dices as he wishes if he believes it’s ok. In some fights, one gladiator kills another at first round when the opponent didn’t even moved. Now, is this a fair fight? The idea of this place is to test build. If he was slain at first round, how could you judge if the build is good? DM interrupts. He changes the dice and brings balance to game. I never did, but I would. Modems are slow! I personally have a 56k modem which is not so fast. And with 56k connection, it takes me 3 hours per match. I can’t effort that lot time. Although summer is coming and I’d be able to spend that time, but instead of working in front of my comp, I’d prefer moding the fight with print-outs in my hand, laying on my sofa and sipping my coffee. Plus, if I’d to spend 3 hours for one match no matter what, I would choose to work to make the fight best I could with 3 hours instead working with a :censored: screwed online dice. My personal advice: Modified take10 rule: take the half for the dice. For d20s, roll d10, and: 1: 6 2: 7 3: 8 4: 9 5: 10 6: 11 7: 12 8: 13 9: 14 0: 15 It would avoid extremes. We need to trust each other.
Caterane 05-29-04, 02:52 PM	@LLMadCow: Funny except one thing: please remove the trust your GM or leave thing from your sig. @Motherbast/Kedi: Mo, Jindl, and I have been promoted to GM by two WizO`s and we`re here to RUN the board. We`re not the cleaning crew that just updates the roster and says hello to newcomers (though this is one of our responsibilities) but decide and approve every single decision made on the board - theoretically at least. Practically we give everyone enough leeway to make his own decisions and only intervene if must be. If Jindl and I decide that the Senate will be disbanded and that there won`t be any Elders anymore, then it will be that way; just to give you an example. This extends to everything else too. [/debate] @all: First of all, it`s quite normal to use the online roller on other boards. The roll-dice thing is a remnant from a time when the arena consisted of 2 threads and 5 players. You say you want to quit pitlording? Well, I have some who quit because of some dubious things that went on. And dubious things ARE happening. Perhaps I know more than you do, or perhaps it`s all just a big coincidence but to say hey, all pitlords are absolutely not even once cheating a dice roll is a bit naive, sorry to say that. That said, I also realize the only argument I acknowledge as such: internet connection speed. With a fast connection, the online roller is just a little bit more time consuming but would do so much for the CoCo. I haven`t had a 56k modem ever but I can imagine that this isn`t very fast. However, I would like to know how many of you actually have a slow connection? If you could give me an insight into this we might discuss this matter, and find another solution. @Jindl: Sheets and tactics at the top are really better. See, when "Troki the Mad, Bugaboo" is paired against "Burp, Honeymoney" then I have no idea who they are, who`s fighting who unless I scroll down to the end which is a bit longwinded. To make matters worse it already happened more than once that I read the last line of the fight which went like "Troki is declared the winner" and spoiled all the fun. Posting the sheets at the beginning in quote or code is really an absolutely minor thing but it prevents annoying spoilers, adds clarity to the post, and is easier by far. Cat
Limit 05-29-04, 03:03 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Motherbast/Kedi: Mo, Jindl, and I have been promoted to GM by two WizO`s and we`re here to RUN the board. We`re not the cleaning crew that just updates the roster and says hello to newcomers (though this is one of our responsibilities) but decide and approve every single decision made on the board - theoretically at least. Practically we give everyone enough leeway to make his own decisions and only intervene if must be. If Jindl and I decide that the Senate will be disbanded and that there won`t be any Elders anymore, then it will be that way; just to give you an example. This extends to everything else too. [/debate] Cat :eek: Gonna quote that so you don't try to edit it out later, saved it to my hard drive too. So my question is, at what point did you and Jindl decide that using your "GM" power over this board is more important than making sure everyone is happy and having fun? Instead of whipping it out and slapping us all in the face with this "Use the Online Dice Roller or Else" decision, why didn't you just call for a public vote? If SO MANY people are asking for online dice rollers and different Pitlords, then the vote would have easily won. If it lost, then not enough people care about using the online dice roller to make it an issue. And you think that because you're a GM you can dictate how things will run? Let me show you what really dictates how things run: Jindl Caterane Tellish_of_Ket SnarkHunter Magagumo MotherBast Market_Share barrel_master cellardweller Mercy Ethendril Limit Battousai2005 Arstimis Myrridin Kaigan daemones Beldin freemoody kattattack22 Captain Mutilate LLMadCow Kazzaroth Pan'theon Kedi ^Rayne^ MadCowTemplate The Pitlords in red are the ones who have said that they will not use the online dice roller for fights. Who is going to pick up all those fights? Cat and Jindl? Have fun.
MotherBast 05-29-04, 03:03 PM	With the running of the boards Cat, I do not question your athority. But the CoCo is not a product of Wizards. You can run the boards all you want, but just because this takes place on a board, does not make it propetrty of the board. You do not have any athority withen the COCO itself, outside of what you do to run the board. The COCO board, and the COCO itself are two seperate entites. They may be simbotic, but they are not the same. You do not have the athority to disband the Senet, and you do not have the athority to create rules as you see fit.
Caterane 05-29-04, 03:18 PM	We (the GMs) didn´t ask anyone when we reformed the Elders some weeks ago. We didn`t ask anyone when we put up the "no edit after 9 PM" rule last week. And we didn`t ask anyone with dozens of other decisions. The Senate is here to rule ingame issues on a democratic basis (this is the "leeway" I spoke of). Bigger issues are voted in open polls so that everyone can participate, like with the Psionic vote for example. However, if Jindl and I would`ve agreed that Psionics are to be let in without a vote at all, then it would`ve been that way. Btw (Limit), since Jindl, I and Tellish agree on this an Elders decision would have no different result anyway. Ok, but let us end the decision about the GMs now. If you want to complain about this write a PM to WizO Shadow (http://boards1.wizards.com/private.php?s=&action=newmessage&userid=153100) Please tell me what your connetion speeds are. Perhaps we can find an alternative.
Captain Mutilate 05-29-04, 03:30 PM	I have a DSL modem, but still am not going to use an online dice roller. I'm honest, and have never cheated/edited a dice roll in the C0C0. If someone has good luck then they have good luck and I tell them. If someone has bad luck then they have bad luck and I tell them. If they have a problem with my integrity, then they can take it up with me, not behind my back with Jindl. I refuse to use an online dice roller and if the GMs continue to turn decision making away from a democracy then I'm leaving. I want to have a say in things, as does everyone else, because without all the players, there is no board, and if there is no board, there are no GMs. Dictatorships are best left to actual campaigns and had better stay away from the C0C0, IMHO. There can be other measures taken to ensure credibility. Like talking to those accused of fixing dice, perhaps? Edit: Will copy paste this to Wizo_Shadow.
MotherBast 05-29-04, 03:49 PM	Cat: you did not set the 9 o'clock limit without discussion. You also did not change the elders without discussion. You did this without discussion, that is the difference. Also, whle Wizo_shadow can say all he wants to about how the board is ran, he has absolutly 0 athority over COCO rules. These rules can be found in the FAQ, stickyed just below Gladiators. These are the rules that govern the COCO. WizOs enforce the rules of the board. They are two seprate and distenct sets of rules. Just as we in the COCO have no athority over the rules of the board, neither does WizO have any athority over the rules of the COCO. The bottom line is the enforcment of the Dice roller is not a Board issue, it is a COCO issue. That means neither WizO, or any GM has any say in the matter whatsoever. Every COCO member, meanwhile, has exatly the same say in this issue. also, even if You, Jindl, and Tellish do support the dice roller being mandatory, and I haven't heard Tellish say he does, that is only 3 out of 6 elders. With the others all aginst it, it still goes to the open polls, where it appears it would loose badly. I for one will simply be ignoring the Requirement for the online dice roller, and I hate to go to war with anyone on the boards here, but I strongly suggest that anyone else aginst the dice roler simply ignore the requirement as well. If enough people simply ignore it, that will force a policy change. I would ignore it even if I like the idea, just on principal because of the way it was inforce.
Caterane 05-29-04, 04:23 PM	Alright. I see even with my status as CoCo GOD :P I cannot enforce a rule that will result in so many people quiting. The Online Roller requirement is hereby withdrawn. I still want you to know that our (Jind and my) intents were for the good of the CoCo, namely erasing biasness, and this seemed the easiest solution. We don`t make such rules to annoy you but improve the CoCo. With this in mind, you can perhaps propose a better solution since the problem is still in existance. Cat
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-29-04, 04:52 PM	Well, this discussion passed before I could said my piece into it :rolleyes: . I say this tough; I have always used online dice roller and I am comfortable whit it (too lazy get dices out from my DM packbag) and it does not take long to me roll whit it. I feel tough uncomfortable if I must carefully type the roll AND link it into after each round or situaiton where rolling was needed (sees in horror when even small league battlereport is two posts long because space what linking takes). But I agreed that the "OD only" rule should had discussed before announcing it and that is stepping many people's toes. Also making a threat for not following the rules was not wisest ideas, a warning is good, but direct threat is far more offensive. I protest the rule now because HOW it was announced, not because it's difficulty. Re-discussion would be in order...... Edit; In my opinion the problem cannot ever resolved whit decent method. It is matter of trust that players believe what DM tells, of course in all real life sessions all DM fix the rolls into their liking (including me), but in here I doubt any pitlord fixes the figth. I have got some most strangest figths ever whit online dice roller (examply match was resolved purely by stabilization check only). So question is; do you trust us or not? Some players could favour certian pitlord because they write better figths (like when I chose to you mod my char's figth).
^Rayne^ 05-29-04, 05:26 PM	Caterane or Jindl, Could you please take the wait off Aiki Auk. He finished his fight yesterday and I was waiting till the wait was removed to edit his character sheet. Thank you. - On a different note, I wanted to say that I support you and Jindl's efforts to make the COCO as fair and unbiased as possible. Your dice initiatives showed you had your hearts in the right place, but it is just such a handicap to those of us who do a fair and unbiased job of rolling for our PC's. I feel like one or two bad apples are causing all the good ones to get tossed out too. This analogy might not be perfect but it seems most of the Pitlords around here are very honest about their dice rolls. Sometimes I have been shocked by high rolls (just look at the damage Vryk took last week from a high level magic missile) but I don't question the integrity of the Pitlords rolling the dice. Sometimes I may act shocked but I am not about to begin saying people are forging their rolls unless my competitor rolls 10 perfect 20's in a row and my PC rolls 10, 1's in a row. I know you both are just trying to promote standards that hold Pitlords accountable. Many of these initiatives I appreciate and will follow to the best of my ability. I really liked your simple changes to the basic Arena that will take affect soon (although you know I want to take it a bit farther). I support any initiative that will make the Arena more balanced for all classes but the online dice roller being forced is just not a good idea. It takes forever (not to mention being a pain in the butt), to post URL's for all of the rolls. Personally it is this sort of nuisance that makes me hate pitlording. On the other end of the spectrum I know many people are angry about the arena changes. This is something I don't understand at all. I have already begun running a fight this week in the 2nd arena I proposed (with the approval of both players involved) and it hasn't made any change in the time it has taken me to run the fight. In fact I am appreciating what it offers already as I have seen some really simple tactics become much more effective for different builds because of being able to use structures and moats to protect their backs from danger. I really am enjoying pitlording this fight more than ever because the arena allows for many more tactics to be employed than the plain vanilla one we've been using. In the future I would like to continue to be one of the pitlords players can request if they want to have their PC's fight in a specialized arena build (that has been approved by the Elders). I believe play-testing is key to see just how good an arena build is. It helps refine the design to make them more streamlined, functional, and fun. I want to promote these changes and perfect the arena builds to make them ideal to test all builds in. Thanks for giving us Pitlords the option to test Arena's with the permission of the players playing in them. Hopefully these prototypes will lead to a high concept arena build that most players will be happy to switch to as the default arena build here at COCO.
Magagumo 05-29-04, 06:15 PM	Hmm, Ebelin v. Kelek will be posted shortly. To be honest, I expect some remarks from both players on this one (hopefully nothing too scathing ;)) Tactics broke down almost immediately for one side, while the other's general plan was eventually thwarted. I know things are perfectly to code on tactis, Tellish & Cat, but you on't know how long I agnonized over every simple alteration that needed to happen so that each of you would believe you had a fair fight. So sit back and enjoy fellows, the length of this fight and the effort to Mod it has wiped any story from my mind (many apologies ;))
Caterane 05-29-04, 06:43 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo: Mod’s Notes: Ebelin gave no tactics if he was unable to access his see invis scroll, but he will not be “screwed” for the lack of foresight. Having delayed for 2 rounds, I am permitting him to use this search pattern. This fight has been one tough call after another, as Tellish invited a modicum of forethought if a tactic would not work as written, while Cat gave strict specific tactics to follow [which were disrupted round 1]. We’ll see how things go… as both of these players doesn’t like my Modding sometimes I`ve been told that my tactics are too long and complicated. I said this is necessary so that a pitlord doesn`t let me act like an idiot just because I didn`t write something. However, I wanted to give it a try this week, and wether the pitlords adjusts or makes my character do the Homer decides on how I write future tactics. I think you did a good job Mag. Of course, my fingers burned to write every possible move and reaction but I let it with a general tactic outline. Oh and I didn`t use a scroll of fly since I don`t have any. But I have winged boots :) Please change this else the auditers will fine me later on.
MysticMonk2005 05-29-04, 07:05 PM	I want to start modding again. I am pretty much un-grounded.
Battousai2005 05-29-04, 09:16 PM	KITH DEATHSCYTH HAS BEEN DELETED. PLEASE REMOVE HIM FROM THE ROSTER. HE HAS BEEN REPLACED BY CANTE, MY NEW PSIONIC CHARACTER. Sorry, but no one saw before this due to the heated online roller debate.
Hatzinger 05-29-04, 10:49 PM	- Internet connection speed is no topic here. (DSL) - I back the wish of Cat and Jindl for more transparency in the dice-rolling. (Yay! Same opinion as Jindl! That cannot be! ;) ) - I know from experience that the online dice roller is hard to use. In my fights, i always find a forgotten or overseen rule, go back to where the error happened, and continue with correct rules and dice-throws from there. This will be impossible without making the dice-roller useless, because a new dice-link every round is as much conspicious as if you just continuously roll bad at home with your own dice. - That said, i would like to see a solution to the trust-problem with dicerolls; but i have no idea how to solve it without an online dice-roller.
Magagumo 05-29-04, 11:07 PM	Hehe, good to get one vote of confidence, Cat, I think your tactics were very sound (and definetly a surpise). I too desire to cover all the bases (as I'm sure you recall from Zorander's tactics).. Someday we'll learn to trust fate :-P (Maybe ;)) Edit: Two votes :D Ahh, now I can happily await Zorander's fight as I begin to pack up (again). I get home for 2 weeks, and I'm back to school for the next six months ;) Fortunately, I still will have a good connection and all me books (Yarr!)
kattattack22 05-30-04, 01:39 AM	Since I worked Saturday morning and played board games in the afternoon here are my thoughts on the online roller issue. If people want to move on from the matter and forget it then just skip this post. @Caterane - I don't know if this relevant anymore, but currently my internet speed is 31.2k (yes that's right) and at best 33.6k because that is all the phone lines in my podunk town can handle. In 3 months when I am back at school I will have T network line that is decent. I have used the Wizards dice roller for a few minutes and it seemed to run fine with my connection, but I don't know if I had to keep it up for a couple hours while ran fight. Personally, since this isn't a campaign where killing PC's that are your friends trying have a good time I don't need fudge rolls. Sindorin can tell you I have no problem with killing PC's even then. Besides if people want to test builds they can't really tell if they are effective if their buddy is helping them out. I can see why some use the online rollers and post the rolls in the fight. I feel confident that they put down what they rolled when they do that. Generally, as long as I can see the rolls copied down into the fight and know that maybe I lost because of a bad roll (or several) then I can blame bad luck and hope for good karma next week. I like my dice too and want to use them, epescially, since they sat in their box since school ended till I ran a fight last. I have a general distrust of computer random numbers since they tend towards a statisical bell curve too easily (you might get a bell curve with 100 rolls instead of 1000 rolls like in reality). If people have are questioning the rolls and distrust spreads among us then the COCO isn't going to be very fun. If online rollers are required for everyone to be okay with everything then so be it. Of course, fudging rolls on an online roller is still possible, maybe a bit more time consuming if you have to start all over to make sure no one sees that you rolled the same attack >1 times. Okay, from my ambigious statements above. I prefer to let pitlords chose real dice or online roller. I will support whatever the most people will be happy. The only way to be sure that the rolls are positively legit is to have everyone there watching very closely and that isn't going to happen. It doesn't seem to me that there would be much time difference in using either. I trust people because cheating doesn't fit in with the purpose of the COCO. Fudging rolls could be done with either.
Caterane 05-30-04, 02:54 AM	@Battousai: Kith Deathscythe is on the inactive list anyway. Of course, I can remove him if you wish but perhaps you might want to play him again one day. Still delete?
Battousai2005 05-30-04, 07:05 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @Battousai: Kith Deathscythe is on the inactive list anyway. Of course, I can remove him if you wish but perhaps you might want to play him again one day. Still delete? I would encourage you to look at the link to Kith. I already replaced him with another character. Take a look. This one is even more insane!
Beldin 05-30-04, 07:13 AM	from the faq; listen vs invisible: By 15-19: within 5'; randomize between 8 squares in 2d, 26 in 3d. code:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |*|*|*| |*|@|*| |*|*|*| -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- why randomise between 8 squares? why not 9? couldn't the listemer have luck and move/attack the right square?
LLMadCow 05-30-04, 11:05 AM	@Caterane - I view my sig as mine. On what grounds are you requesting that I change my sig? Please give specific reasons and I will consider editing my sig. If you wish, this can be moved to e-mail or AIM/ICQ at a later date.
LLMadCow 05-30-04, 11:10 AM	Oops. My bad, y'all.
LLMadCow 05-30-04, 11:28 AM	Having not read the entire book, please let me address a few concerns and see what people respond with... In PsiHB 3.0, there was always the issue, to be decided by the GM, of how Psionics were handled. Can Psionics be dispelled by Dispel Magic and visa-versa? I guess what I really want to know is: What are the differences between Magic and Psionics in regard to how they can affect each other? More to follow...
freemoody 05-30-04, 11:45 AM	You're right Moh...That really was a Hattori Hanzo sword!
Jindl 05-30-04, 12:05 PM	Clio vs Zephin is posted. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 05-30-04, 12:20 PM	@LL we've been talking about this in the General Query: Psionics thread, but in brief-anything that affects magic affects psionics and vice versa. So yes to Dispel magic and also to dispel Psionics.
kattattack22 05-30-04, 12:54 PM	What is the AC bonus vs. ranged attacks from lying prone considered to be?
Beldin 05-30-04, 01:00 PM	tair vs mc fartin is posted
barrel_master 05-30-04, 01:22 PM	I have a question regarding dwarves, are they subject to the reduced flying speed penalties that characters, who are using the fly spell, suffer when wearing heavy armor?
Jindl 05-30-04, 01:32 PM	@barrel - Yes, they are. The PHB (pg 122) says that "a dwarf's land speed remains 20 feet even in medium or heavy armor." Since it specifically says the land speed, I think the fly speed would still be hindered as normal. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 05-30-04, 01:35 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 What is the AC bonus vs. ranged attacks from lying prone considered to be? There is no AC bonus for being prone vs a ranged attacker. What does happen though is that the ranged attacker suffers a -4 penalty to his/her ranged attacks for firing at someone who is prone (or taken a knee), and is not adjacent to the target. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 05-30-04, 02:47 PM	Dusk vs Kage is complete. I think i set a new record for nat 20's. Four 20's in 4 rounds. What makes it worse is i believe they were all one-sided. :( Thus making it a short fight. 4 rounds of bloody clawing and stabbing. -ToK
Mercy 05-30-04, 02:59 PM	The Harvester (2nd) vs. Donkey is posted
Kaigan 05-30-04, 04:12 PM	@Daemones: I feel very foolish and irresponsible, but I have lost your tactics. I no longer have them on my computer. I blame my brother who is always screwing around. Anyways, I apologize, and ask if you could resend them. Take your time, but I would prefer that they be sent by Monday morning please. Thank you for your time, and sorry about this. Kaigan
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-30-04, 04:41 PM	I am still waiting tactics for Lorelei. I will run the figth in monday, so PLEASE send tactics to me till then, to my PM box (my email is not trustable at moment).
kattattack22 05-30-04, 04:52 PM	Olinad vs. Boldrift! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3564378#post3564378) I kept finding errors as I double checked the fight and wrote the story. So if there are anymore please be nice, its one of those days. Besides that it was a fun fight to run. It has a story too!
Arstimis 05-30-04, 05:05 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 Olinad vs. Boldrift! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3564378#post3564378) I kept finding errors as I double checked the fight and wrote the story. So if there are anymore please be nice, its one of those days. Besides that it was a fun fight to run. It has a story too! The story was great Kattatack, and i love how you can say just the right thing for Olinad. I want you to be my mod next level too and continue the story, hah
daemones 05-30-04, 05:13 PM	@Kaigan: No worries at all. No need to stress, we're just here to have fun. Tactics re-sent via PM, sending them via email as well, just in case.
Kaigan 05-30-04, 05:22 PM	@Daemones: Thanks. Received tactics. Again, sorry for the mishap.
kattattack22 05-30-04, 05:26 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis The story was great Kattatack, and i love how you can say just the right thing for Olinad. I want you to be my mod next level too and continue the story, hah lol, its not hard with the examples you gave. All I have to do is have him speak in rhyming copulets or just rhyme. As for continuing the story, this one was bit of a stretch. Fortunately, I kept the back story simple and not well detailed. We'll see how the dice roll if I mod for Olinad again.
Ethendril 05-30-04, 05:47 PM	I have got a Memorial Day time crunch right now, and I'm overbooked. Unfortunately, I will be unable to run the Dra'kel/Octavian fight and still meet the deadline. It's higher level. Is anyone willing to run this fight for me? I had hoped to run it Friday, but couldn't. -Ethendril
MysticMonk2005 05-30-04, 06:00 PM	Some one pleaze look at my new char. I'm pretty sure that I did some things wrong. Either post here, or PM me pleaze if you see anything wrong. And how much does a Large Mast. weapon cost? does the large double the mast. cost?
SnarkHunter 05-30-04, 06:20 PM	Hmm you need to disable smilies. I'm not sure about the expanded reach but I guess its right.
freemoody 05-30-04, 06:33 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril I have got a Memorial Day time crunch right now, and I'm overbooked. Unfortunately, I will be unable to run the Dra'kel/Octavian fight and still meet the deadline. It's higher level. Is anyone willing to run this fight for me? I had hoped to run it Friday, but couldn't. -Ethendril I would, but since I've only PL'd two fights so far, I don't believe that anyone would want me to. But I must say that I've read every single fight on the fights thread, and I believe that I've up to the task.
Magagumo 05-30-04, 07:16 PM	Eth, I really want to help out, but I've got a ton of typing to do for the folks before I return to school. If you're desperate, send me the tactics through PM, and I will try to run it late Monday evening or Tuesday afternoon (it woulnd't be done by 4 PM). I would recommend someone else taking it, but at least send them over, so in a pinch I can be helpful. (I'll post on Tavern if I begin it, and I expect someone else to do the same if they start).
Tellish_of_Ket 05-30-04, 07:19 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 Some one pleaze look at my new char. I'm pretty sure that I did some things wrong. Either post here, or PM me pleaze if you see anything wrong. And how much does a Large Mast. weapon cost? does the large double the mast. cost? Yes it does. Because the cost to make it masterwork is added to the base, which you then double. -ToK
barrel_master 05-30-04, 08:41 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @barrel - Yes, they are. The PHB (pg 122) says that "a dwarf's land speed remains 20 feet even in medium or heavy armor." Since it specifically says the land speed, I think the fly speed would still be hindered as normal. -Jindl I thought so, thank you for answering.
Jindl 05-30-04, 08:53 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril I have got a Memorial Day time crunch right now, and I'm overbooked. Unfortunately, I will be unable to run the Dra'kel/Octavian fight and still meet the deadline. It's higher level. Is anyone willing to run this fight for me? I had hoped to run it Friday, but couldn't. -Ethendril If you send the tactics to me now, I'll run it tonight. -Jindl
Ethendril 05-30-04, 09:54 PM	Originally posted by Jindl If you send the tactics to me now, I'll run it tonight. -Jindl Jindl: Tactics forwarded via email. Thanks for your help... I had some unanticipated family stuff going on over the holidays. Thanks again. -Ethendril
Jindl 05-30-04, 10:32 PM	@Eth - Tactics recieved. Working on Grym vs Ixidor right now, but I'll get to Dra'kel vs Octavian soon. -Jindl
LLMadCow 05-31-04, 01:49 AM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon I am still waiting tactics for Lorelei. I will run the figth in monday, so PLEASE send tactics to me till then, to my PM box (my email is not trustable at moment). I have passed the message along to MadCowTemplate. He made 2 attempts to e-mail you. He will follow up with a PM shortly.
Caterane 05-31-04, 03:16 AM	Great stories from Jindl (Arkin vs Vaarkalikax), Kattattack (Olinad vs Boldrift), and Mercy (Harvester vs Donkey). I really enjoyed the read and can`t wait to read more of your fights! However, kattattack, I`d advice you to post your story BEFORE the rolls and result because you take away all the suspense. I knew who the winner would be before I read the first sentence. @all: I have an idea about the map issue. Why not open a new "Map Thread" where all maps created by you are being posted. Pitlords may use these maps with the approval of both gladiators. That way we can test all maps and it encourages us to create our own ones. Jindl and I are going to set up some standards and guidelines but the rest is up to you. What do you think? Cat
^Rayne^ 05-31-04, 05:10 AM	Sarah Longfellow vs. Dante Ironfist is up and boy was it a close one! Please note that this battle used a new arena design. It is found on the 2nd page of the Discussion Arena Shape thread about 3/4 of the way down. Although both players were excited to try out the new arena neither one gave tactics that took too much advantage of the new proposal (however none of the current character builds on the boards have ever been tailored to use skills that this build is capable of testing because they have never had the opportunity till now). Still the new map didn't take me any additional time to run the fight with and it did allow for some interesting strategic points of interest. Please if anyone has any comments or concerns let me know. I believe everything is pretty straight forward and by the book but we are all human and prone to mistakes. If any are to important to to leave unfixed I will do editing if necessary. Thanks and enjoy the fight.
Caterane 05-31-04, 09:37 AM	Ladies and gentlemen: Miss Shadow http://www.1a-network.de/grafik/guestbook/smilies/freu.gif
WizO_Shadow 05-31-04, 09:58 AM	I have a solution to the online dice roller as well as the feelings of favortism in the pitlording. Fully read this post please as I do need to state a few other things. :) Thanks! I do support the wonderful GM's here. A lot of people work tirelessly to make the Wizards.COMmunity a better place and I *love* that. I forget who posted it but you are right. The GM's do the GM work, I do the CoC work. However that does not mean that we can't work together to find solutions to issues that arise. So, onto my solution: Email dice roller. It's extremely easy to use, the results are emailed to the person requesting them and you can even CC someone with them. So what I was thinking is that the person would send the pitlord their tactics. Then the pitlord uses the email dice roller which took me all of 3 minutes as a new person to use and send emails out which I recieved all of 2 minutes later. In this email dice roller you can designate any number of dice, even a modifier to add to them IIRC, any number of times. So the pitlord uses the email dice roller, the player recieves *their* set of rolls via email and then gets to wait anxiously until the results are posted to see if that 1 on the set of rolls was for a listen check or an attack! The Irony games email roller comes recommened during the Online Gaming Seminar Wizo_Bastion and I held during UnCon last year. So, let's do an example shall we? Oh yes, the link to the roller... http://www.irony.com/mailroll.html You email a set of 20d20, another of let's say damage die 8's, magical weapon damage dice of 6's and some percentages for invisibility miss chances. That's 4 emails each so 8 emails in approx 20 minutes and the results are emailed from their server to you and the player. While the issue of trust is an extremely sensitive one and each time it's brought up, one side is bound to get insulted one way or the other, the issue still stands. If there are some saying that there is a biased situation happening, well, while it may hurt, it does need to be honestly addressed with some sort of solution in a fair manner. Afterall, we all hate seeing our favorite 9th level fighter characters die to rounding the corner to an Illithid over one will save. *shudders* Still get nightmares of that. Thoughts? WizO_Shadow :angel:
Magagumo 05-31-04, 10:24 AM	An interesting proposal, Miss Shadow- I just tried it out for d20s, and it certainly is quick with the results. Personally, I might complie the rolls into one email which I would send to each player (deriving it from the composite of rolls I made during the fight with this roller), just to cut down on the number. But yes, it did seem fast, and if one is willing to set a large number of rolls, that can handle you for most of the fight (at high levels, 40d20 might cover 10 rounds or so, at best, thus my reasoning for one self-composed composite email at the end).
Jindl 05-31-04, 10:42 AM	@Shadow - I like that idea. I'm running Dra'kel vs Octavian tonight, and I'll try using the email dice roller for it. (Another suggestion, read the tactics before you submit the request for rolls. If you see a wizard using mirror image, ask for a few rolls at each die# (1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d5, 1d6, 1d7, 1d8, etc.) That way you can determine which image was hit without having to request more rolls. -Jindl
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-31-04, 11:00 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow I have passed the message along to MadCowTemplate. He made 2 attempts to e-mail you. He will follow up with a PM shortly. Ups, I noticed one thing. I got ALREADY Lorelei's tactics in my email, but the Twyll Talaviir tactics are still missing (dumb me :P). I mixed the names, so sorry for this confusion! I make the figth tomorrow to give poor Kaigan time to reply, but early tomorrow I make the figth. Edit; I can agreed for email roller. That saves in the space in post when you make the figth+same time when you make large amount of rolls, you do not need roll future rolls! Examply make raw 40d20 rolls (wich all are used in situations where is d20 needed) then damage rolls sepparately.
MotherBast 05-31-04, 11:17 AM	I like this Idea Shadow, but I do see one problem. The Pitlord will know the outcome of every action before they take it. So, if the Pitlord is truly biased twords one of the gladiators, he/she can talior the fight to his liking by making sure rolls are made in the "correct" order during a round. Like making sure an unimportant listen check, which is destened to fail, happens before the spot check, which will succeed, and the 20 that comes up next for the attack. This is just one situation. Another example might be if the pitlord has to choose between two tactical options, one involving an attack, and the other involving casting a spell, he may cast the spell, as he knows the next d20 roll will be a nat 1. So while this would go a long way twords making people trust the rolls, I don't see it fixing the problem with people who don't trust the pitlord. Personaly, I don't think there is any pitlord here I don't trust. Untill now, the thought that a pitlord would be accused of cheating haden't crossed my mind. It is supprising to me this has become such a big issue. I think one step twords fixing it might be requiring each player to state what pitlord they do not wish to run there fights publicly. Honestly, I don't belive any pitlord here cheats, and forcing the player to state his acusations publicly will greatly reduce the number of these acusations I think. Really, the problem isen't with the pitlords, the problem is with the players making the accusations.
Caterane 05-31-04, 11:41 AM	@MB: First of all, the pitlord can do all that he wants as it is now. Every step we take - as little as it might be - is an improvement towards fairness in the CoCo. No one`s accusing anyone here, and surely not in public but the fact alone that it IS possible to be biased is reason enough to take measures against it. Actions take place in certain orders. First you listen/spot (listen first, due to the alphabet), then you can attack. You can`t do it vice versa. And tactics are quite clear, especially when it comes down to melee. A few guidelines in which order rolls have to be made takes care of this "problem". In any case, this is a better solution than the online roller, and though there might be still the possibility to cheat rolls, it`d be reduced to an acceptable mimimum.
Myrridin 05-31-04, 11:42 AM	And my last fight is up. Jo'Li vs. Matei (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3570193#post3570193) I agree with MotherBast, people who'd like to request to *not* have a Pitlord, should have to do it publicly. If there's that much distrust amongst everyone, how is this supposed to continue running? Not to mention, if someone says that they don't want to have a different person as a Pitlord, would you then assign the first person to run the second person's fight? It's a pretty crappy thing to do.
LLMadCow 05-31-04, 12:00 PM	@ALL - This is so much an issue of trust. I have made my voice heard on many different instances. Now that the On-line Dice Roller has been thrown down, I can address the meat of the issue. trust (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=trust) n. Firm reliance on the integrity, ability, or character of a person or thing. We are all one big group of kids here. Honestly. From the oldest, to the youngest, we are all kids. That is why we are here playing a game. In the words of the great man, Rodney King, Can't we all just get along? If there are issues, let them out into the air. Talk about them. For the record I am asking a huge question: Is there anyone out there who does not trust me as a GM, either in my ability to run a game correctly, ethically, or entertainingly? If there is, please let me know. Either a PM, e-mail or open discussion is fine with me. I will do my best to address and/or resolve the issue. Yes, McTemplate is my house-mate. He and I have been friends since 1992 and trust each other implicitly. He and I are both sound GMs and if the issue arises, I would be more than happy to let him know "Dude, your tactics were horrible, your character needs some work, and ... um ... she just dies. Sorry dude." He'd smack me around a bit, and that would be that. He has no access to any of my accounts, so there is no concern that he'd read other tactics, but if people are uncomfortable with me running a fight with his character, I understand and find it acceptable that someone else run the match. Now that I have had my rant, let me also say this: I trust each and every one of you. (Even though Jindl just killed my beoved Cliodhna, I still trust him!) I mean, that Cat is a little shifty eyed, and Mo seems like and absentee father and McTemplate should be beaten for trying to steal my name, but everyone is cool in my book. Summary: If you don't trust me, let me know and if I don't trust you, I will let you know ... trust me, I'll let you know.
MotherBast 05-31-04, 12:44 PM	Well said LL. And Cat, listen isen't required to occure before spot by any rule I know of. I can think of other examples where the rolles could be talored to the liking of the PL also. Like, for instance, he could roll round after round of listen checks unnecessarly, either because it was going to be an automatic success or failer, or because the listener has no real reason to be listing in the first place, just to cycle through the "bad rolls" and get to the good ones. I mean, if the pitlord wants to affect the outcome of the fight, he will. So this does not correct the greater problem, which is the issue of trust. That will not be corrected untill everyone on this board learns to trust each other. A hard task indeed for any collection of people, but a necessary one for the survival of this board. The real issue is, if you are one of the players who does not trust the Pitloards, then you have a problem. It should not be the responsibility of this board to change itslef to cater to you. It should be your responsibility to overcome you issues. It will allow both you and everyone else here to better enjoy the game. If you can't learn to trust, then I think LL had a suggestion for you.
kattattack22 05-31-04, 12:55 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Great stories from Jindl (Arkin vs Vaarkalikax), Kattattack (Olinad vs Boldrift), and Mercy (Harvester vs Donkey). I really enjoyed the read and can`t wait to read more of your fights! However, kattattack, I`d advice you to post your story BEFORE the rolls and result because you take away all the suspense. I knew who the winner would be before I read the first sentence. @all: I have an idea about the map issue. Why not open a new "Map Thread" where all maps created by you are being posted. Pitlords may use these maps with the approval of both gladiators. That way we can test all maps and it encourages us to create our own ones. Jindl and I are going to set up some standards and guidelines but the rest is up to you. What do you think? Cat @Cat - Thank you, for the compliment and the advice. I hate to put the story in the middle because it could be skipped over so easily and I don't want to put it first since I usually like to look at who is fighting first, but I guess something has to give :). Probably just make my story heading a little bigger to make sure its notice when I put it after sheets and tactics and before rolls next time. EDIT: I like the separate Map thread idea please implement. I want to try out Jindl's or possibly Rayne's maps next week. EDIT: BTW, I trust all of you, except maybe Sindorin. His dual weilding scythe fighter did way too well for all the penalities he took. (JK Sindorin I know I double checked those attack modifiers when I helped you make Varius.)
Mercy 05-31-04, 12:55 PM	I believe the email die roller is an acceptable solution. I usually do something similiar when I DM RL games.
Battousai2005 05-31-04, 01:07 PM	Posted Rhoar vs. Megaraptor. Enjoy
Caterane 05-31-04, 01:28 PM	@Ethendril: Here`s a picture for Vaarkalikax (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Vaarkalikax.jpg) I can always resize it if you wish me to do so.
Battousai2005 05-31-04, 01:29 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Ethendril: Here`s a picture for Vaarkalikax (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Vaarkalikax.jpg) I can always resize it if you wish me to do so. Beautiful. Stunning. Can you find me one for my new Wilder, Cante? Or maybe Akordia?
Caterane 05-31-04, 01:39 PM	drow 1 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20Blonde%20Drow.jpg) drow 2 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20Gold%20outfit.jpg) drow 3 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20Young%20inocent%20looking.jpg) drow 4 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20absolutly%20cool.jpg) drow 5 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20white%20eyes.jpg) drow 6 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20with%20Daergoloth.jpg) drow 7 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Fighter%20-%20Hunter.jpg) drow 8 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Fighter%20-%20Light%20armored%20female.jpg) drow 9 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Rogue%20-%20Fighter%20style.jpg) drow 10 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Rogue%20-%20Heurodis.jpg) drow 11 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Viconia%20-%201.jpg) drow 12 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Viconia%20-%202.jpg) Please tell me which one you`d like to keep for I don`t want to host them all. @Arty: Speaking of pictures. Olinad the drow?? http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Danilo%20Thann.jpg Uhm, you know that drow are darkskinned elfs, don`t you? I`ve resized the portrait btw Edit: What about this one? http://home.arcor.de/caterane/M%20-%20Drow%20---%20Fighter%20-%20Noble%20Drow.jpg - Olinad Nnaht Edit2: ignore this... just testing something [/b]]test [/b]][/b]]test
freemoody 05-31-04, 03:32 PM	Quote by Magagumo while PLing the Eblin vs Kelek fight. I will be abiding by current errata, not the error-prone recap of polymorph, so your hp will not change. Is there going to be an official CoCo ruling on this? Or is it up to the Pitlords to decide as they run the fights? I'd rather HP's not change, cause it's a double-edged sword. It cuts both ways, no matter which way you slice it. :D
barrel_master 05-31-04, 04:00 PM	Originally posted by freemoody Quote by Magagumo while PLing the Eblin vs Kelek fight. Is there going to be an official CoCo ruling on this? Or is it up to the Pitlords to decide as they run the fights? I'd rather HP's not change, cause it's a double-edged sword. It cuts both ways, no matter which way you slice it. :D I would personaly rather have a board ruling... if I can put my 2 cents in... I'd prefer if we stuck to the official rules which now say that the HP's do change.
Magagumo 05-31-04, 04:41 PM	Hmm, I want to reiterate that Skip is still not the Official rules to my knowledge (and I'm afraid I don't follow Dragon too frequently) Also, I have been lead to understand that an official errata automatically overrides any other statement made in any source. Period. Skipping my feelings on the Sage's error-proneness, we should strongly consider that the errata is the last word on rules, and that the new one still contains the ruling that hp do not change. One side note concerning Polymorph: is subtype also acquired? Skip failed to list ta'nnari or baatezu, so I couldn't recall if Polymorph gave subytpes as well (and thusly, immunity to Fire/Electricity and Posion if one is a Polymorphing outsider. See also Fire and Cold Subtypes).
MotherBast 05-31-04, 04:49 PM	Well, as far as "offical" goes, if you have even one issue of Dragon you can check the "Sage Answers", where it states that all of Skip's answers are concidered "official" by WotC. I posted a while back the one about his answers superceeding any previous answer or clerafaction, but that one isen't in Dragon, so I can't remember where I read it. It might be on the sight, or on an old clerafaction of his that was once posted there.
^Rayne^ 05-31-04, 06:13 PM	Sorry to MysticMonk2005 and Captain Mutilate, in my efforts to run a good accurate fight I still managed to make two key blunders as was pointed out to me by Mercy and Magagumo (thanks you two for reading the match and your kind critiques). These blunders will almost certainly change the match dramatically although I don't know in who's favor just yet. I will be rerunning the entire fight starting from the first major error at round 13 onward. Caterane or Jindl please move MysticMonk's PC back to 5th level till the real outcome is decided. I don't encourage reruns but under the circumstances the errors were major and could result in a completely different outcome. Personally these matches take awhile to run for me no matter the circumstances and I don't want to do this but fair is fair and this match is unfair in its current form. I will begin editing the needed changes and post them as soon as I can. I again appologize to both players this affects. I will try to get the match patched up very soon. When and where possible I will be using the same rolls as they happened minus circumstance rolls like +2 invisibility when the target isn't invisible anymore. -Rayne
Caterane 05-31-04, 06:55 PM	Zorander vs Pale-Rider is up.
freemoody 05-31-04, 07:06 PM	Quote from Myrridin while PLing the Joli vs Matei fight. Jo'Li finishes his spell and two hippogriffs appear in-mid air to attack Matei. I was just wondering if it was possible to summon flying creatures in mid-air. SNA is a Conjuration (Summoning) spell. The conjuration decription states;"A creature of object brought into being... [can not] appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it." So you can't summon an elephant 5' above your opponent, but can you summon a flying creature 5' above your opponent? And also, (sorry about being Mr. McQuestions today) what time (GMT) are fights concidered late?
Jindl 05-31-04, 09:00 PM	Originally posted by freemoody And also, (sorry about being Mr. McQuestions today) what time (GMT) are fights concidered late? No official time has been set, though I usually don't start handing out penalties until 12 noon EST. I suppose we should go ahead and set a time (GMT) though. -Jindl
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-31-04, 09:15 PM	Originally posted by Caterane drow 1 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20Blonde%20Drow.jpg) drow 2 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20Gold%20outfit.jpg) drow 3 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20Young%20inocent%20looking.jpg) drow 4 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20absolutly%20cool.jpg) drow 5 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20white%20eyes.jpg) drow 6 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Cleric%20-%20with%20Daergoloth.jpg) drow 7 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Fighter%20-%20Hunter.jpg) drow 8 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Fighter%20-%20Light%20armored%20female.jpg) drow 9 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Rogue%20-%20Fighter%20style.jpg) drow 10 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Rogue%20-%20Heurodis.jpg) drow 11 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Viconia%20-%201.jpg) drow 12 (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/F%20-%20Drow%20---%20Viconia%20-%202.jpg) Please tell me which one you`d like to keep for I don`t want to host them all. @Arty: Speaking of pictures. Olinad the drow?? http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Danilo%20Thann.jpg Uhm, you know that drow are darkskinned elfs, don`t you? I`ve resized the portrait btw Edit: What about this one? http://home.arcor.de/caterane/M%20-%20Drow%20---%20Fighter%20-%20Noble%20Drow.jpg - Olinad Nnaht Edit2: ignore this... just testing something ]test [/b]][/b]]test [/B] Hey Cat! Those pics are amazing! Can you find pics for male drows after Battousai2005 have picked? Also jsut a addres to sites wich haves those pics would help :).
Arstimis 05-31-04, 09:23 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Arty: Speaking of pictures. Olinad the drow?? Edit: What about this one? http://home.arcor.de/caterane/M%20-%20Drow%20---%20Fighter%20-%20Noble%20Drow.jpg - Olinad Nnaht Thanks, I think this works better
Magagumo 05-31-04, 09:50 PM	@Cat That was a ridiculous enervation ray- ouch! Ah well, excepting for the Potion of Fly (my fault), the fight looked sound. I guess using its rider's saves will work for Phantom Mount *shrug* I have no idea how to otherwise adjudicate it. Sniping might have helped in this battle, but I recognize my defeat. Advice for improving Zorander's capabilities (asides from levels, as I have that worked out ;)) are always appreciated- He's getting mauled by spellcasters left and right (surprise, surprise) and I fear that I may foolishly bump him a second time, leading to the embarassment of the build. I have the feeling the new obstacle in the center will help the boy have time to hide, I refuse to pick up Improved Init on principle. Edit: @ Jindl I noticed i have 4 creds at the moment, and I do not know if 3 creds have been removed for Ban'zanifal? Nevertheless, I'm starting my full-time job this week, and have 4 active characters right now. Thusly, I'd like to Mod two fights, so I will be loosing one cred (I noticed that Banzanifal, Overna, and CrestingDawn make the 2nd and 3rd tiers even, so I want to keep them in). Also, with their agreement, Zorander would like to fight the loser of the Octavian v. Drakel fight :)
Jindl 05-31-04, 10:33 PM	@Mag - Cat is the one who added them to the roster. I don't think he subtracted the credits, so I'll take care of it :D -Jindl
Battousai2005 05-31-04, 10:34 PM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Hey Cat! Those pics are amazing! Can you find pics for male drows after Battousai2005 have picked? Also jsut a addres to sites wich haves those pics would help :). I got #12. Here's to Baldur's Gate II!!!
Jindl 05-31-04, 11:27 PM	Grym vs Ixidor is posted. Octavian vs Dra'kel will be soon... -Jindl
Alterlat 05-31-04, 11:50 PM	@Battousai, Check the comments & concerns thread.
SnarkHunter 06-01-04, 12:37 AM	Cat or JIndl when your updating for Wednesdays (psionic!)pairings; Candion, cellar dwellers psychic warrior (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2722236#2722236) Kante, Batt's Wilder (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3174073#3174073) Teesh Drocer, Mystic s psychic warrior-maybe, not currently readied. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3558148#3558148) word.
Battousai2005 06-01-04, 12:40 AM	Well, Kage, after his luck and winning streak, will be taking a light break. Akordia and Cante (replaces kith) will be active. I want to break even on creds. Shiryoken, my half fiend, will be on the active once I get enough creds
WizO_Shadow 06-01-04, 01:37 AM	Not sure I want to pour any more salt into this wound but I'm not sure I saw an exact closure on it. I can see both sides of the issues as I'm sure you all can. Some feel that their fights can't be fought out in an unbiased manner and some pitlords are upset that anyone would think that they would do such a thing as throw a fight into anyone's favor. At some point down the line, the pitlord has to be trusted. Since we aren't face to face it's rather impossible to get 100% certainty that everything was indeed a fair fight. The question might lie with, at what point do you let go and let the Pitlord take over? Is it when you submit your tactics? Receive a couple emails from a dice server? I'm sure there are many more answers and only a few will agree on one actual point that the everything is handed over to a Pitlord and fate has it's way. I think at this point I'm going to back out and let you all come to a decision on it. I really hope I helped and that everyone finds a perfect solution to this serious issue! @all: Thanks for your hard work! This forum really does show hours upon hours of dedication and hard decisions!! Keep up the awesome jobs! Shadow :angel:
^Rayne^ 06-01-04, 02:55 AM	MysticMonk2005 and Captain Mutilate, I completed the rerun of your fight starting from Round 13 to the finish. I used all the rolls I made for your PC's as they were originally made in the order they were made for each PC. I altered earlier mistakes that could have seriously affected the outcome. In this new version of the fight it actually ended 3 rounds sooner and the final outcome did not change. I am very sorry about the original errors. Everything should be in order and the fight is complete now.
Hatzinger 06-01-04, 03:30 AM	Hm... Tuesday morning and still about a dozen missing fights denying the players the possibility to discuss them. I don´t like this new trend.
Mercy 06-01-04, 04:20 AM	I've got a rules question. Is Dispel Magic considered an attack spell? Does it matter if it's cast as Target Dispel or Area Dispel? I think it's not, because: 1) No damage is done. 2) No attack roll is required. 3) No save and no SR. 4) It doesn't affect a creatue or object, only an ongoing spell or spell-like ability and then only if they are subject to dispel magic.
KerlanRayne 06-01-04, 04:33 AM	Originally posted by Mercy Is Dispel Magic considered an attack spell? Does it matter if it's cast as Target Dispel or Area Dispel? I'm assuming you are talking about invisibility. Originally posted by SRD The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. That means both forms are considered attacks. KerlanRayne
Myrridin 06-01-04, 09:14 AM	About the summoning of the flying creatures in mid-air. That's a good question. I know that other, non-flying creatures can't be summoned in mid-air. I thought that a flying creature could have been though. If not, Jo'Li would've summoned them on the ground around Matei, and one of them wouldn't have gotten a dive attack in a round.
Caterane 06-01-04, 10:18 AM	Will Brock enter the ranks of the Best Starters? Find out here: Brock Granitehand vs Sven Enno (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3578671#post3578671)
Jindl 06-01-04, 03:22 PM	@All - Please be patient, I'll be updating the roster soon. I'll also be posting Dra'kel vs Octavian (which I took over for Ethendril) soon. If your fight has been posted, you may edit your character (you don't have to wait for me to remove the wait tag if your fight has been posted.) -Jindl
Jindl 06-01-04, 04:04 PM	Dra'kel vs Octavian is posted. Innovative tactics from both players made for a tactically interesting fight. Although it is posted after the deadline, since I took the fight over from Ethendril and didn't even get tactics until yesterday, I don't think there should be a late penalty on it. I'm now going to update the roster. -Jindl
Caterane 06-01-04, 04:11 PM	Apropos late fights: it`s past 10 PM here @Jindl: Didn`t we say that polymorph doesn`t change hp? I want a definate and final ruling now on this issue.
MotherBast 06-01-04, 04:28 PM	We definatly need an answer, although I don't know about "definate and final", as the matter is likely to soon be addressed in FAQ, and could change our dicesion if we make the wrong one.... really though, we need to decided one way to run it and use that way consistently. Personaly, I think WotC trys its darndest to make anything Skip says become correct if it wasen't correct already, so I think its very likely the "new" "offical" way to run Polly will probably be added to FAQ, and think we should probably go ahead and start using it.
SnarkHunter 06-01-04, 04:30 PM	That sounds like a parsimonious suggestion MB. Parsimonious. A word not commonly used. And I mean to change that.
Jindl 06-01-04, 04:47 PM	Okay, the roster has been updated. We are waiting on the following 3 fights: 1. Twyll Talaviir, Kaigan vs Lorelei, MadCowTemplate: Kazzaroth Pan'theon 2. Irwin Swen, daemones vs Delayar, Beldin: Kaigan 3. Heinrich, Hatzinger vs Prof. Vandaeris Dre'Dandrahl, Caterane: Limit Re: Late fights - What is the opinion on late penalties for the 3 fights above? Also, Hatzinger has pointed out that there is a trend of posting fights on the last day, which of course limits discussion and the ability of players to ask for errors to be corrected. I also see this trend and was wondering if there is something we should do about it (like moving editing + pairings to Thursday so that there is more time between the day fights are due and the day characters must be edited.) Re: Polymorphing I think that the new ruling will be a part of the FAQ (which is written by Skip, fyi) and we should go ahead and start playing it where hp's do change (though it sucks for my druid that spent 16 pts to have a starting Con of 18). In both the fights I ran this weekend where polymorphing occured, I changed the hps to match the new Con modifier. So, I think that is what we should do. Please let me know what you guys think on these issues... -Jindl
Caterane 06-01-04, 04:54 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter That sounds like a parsimonious suggestion MB. Parsimonious. A word not commonly used. And I mean to change that. Snark, did I ever tell you that you have one of the best humors I`ve ever encountered? @Jindl: I`m not for moving the pairings. Most of my free time is on weekends when I can run fights and everything. If pairings are set thursday (night, from my perspective) then I get tactics no earlier than friday afternoon - AT BEST, perhaps even saturday. Sunday and monday are very bad days for me to run fights, almost impossible. But that`s just my opinon. If the majority agrees... However, I have something new in mind anyway.
freemoody 06-01-04, 05:09 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Okay, the roster has been updated. We are waiting on the following 3 fights: 1. Twyll Talaviir, Kaigan vs Lorelei, MadCowTemplate: Kazzaroth Pan'theon 2. Irwin Swen, daemones vs Delayar, Beldin: Kaigan 3. Heinrich, Hatzinger vs Prof. Vandaeris Dre'Dandrahl, Caterane: Limit Re: Late fights - What is the opinion on late penalties for the 3 fights above? -Jindl If we don't enforce the rules then no one will follow the rules. Two weeks of no pitlording does seem a litlle harsh to me. But the penalties are there for a reason.
Jindl 06-01-04, 05:22 PM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Twyll Talaviir vs Lorelei figth posted. Tough battle for league 2 ;). Wizard was great in melee! Kazza posted this on the Fights of the Week thread (by accident, I assume). -Jindl
MotherBast 06-01-04, 05:59 PM	When are we planning to unfreeze the level 13 guys?
Jindl 06-01-04, 07:01 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast When are we planning to unfreeze the level 13 guys? When we have 16. Keep in mind that Cat won't be running all 3-4 of his at once, neither will I be running all 2-3 of mine at once, or Snark running all 2-3 of his at once. It's unlikely that Mo will have returned to reactivate Iron. So we may have quite a few less level 13's than it appears at first glance. -Jindl
^Rayne^ 06-01-04, 07:06 PM	^ Yeah, give me time, eventually I will have a whole bunch of kobolds up to level 13 that you can pick on MotherBast. I'm planning on adding in 2 to 3 new kobolds very soon. Maybe they will move up the ladder a little faster than Aiki and Vryk. ;) JK I know you're anxious but Jindl is right. Once you start looking at how many of these PC's are controlled by the same player it is unlikely they will all be active at the same time.
MotherBast 06-01-04, 07:09 PM	The final instalment of Pollymorph clarafications is up, though it does little to clear up the problems with PAO. It does, however, have yet another refrence to Polly changing the subjects HPs based on the new Con. (its under Alternate Forms, for those who want to go hunting it). This would suggest that the first refrence was likely not an error, but intentional, and that Polly will officaly be changing its subjects HP from now on. Oh, and Snark, got a challange for ya on the RP thread. Forgive me if I'm a bit rusty, haven't used the o' RP thread for a while.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 06-01-04, 07:26 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Kazza posted this on the Fights of the Week thread (by accident, I assume). -Jindl Well, I posted in a purpose (it can be more easily noticed there). But I also was tired, so I did not yet report in here :rolleyes: . I am very sorry for the lateness of my figth! I waited for Kaigan's tactics too long and I should had doned it my inspiration his char earlier (I mixed up whit names when I asked tactics). I try edit the battle in wednesday more (add story, fix mistakes).
Magagumo 06-01-04, 07:39 PM	Hmm Re: Polymorph, I am seeing the trend as well. Honestly, I don't care one way or the tohr- we now have rules for what remains on the non-humanoids (yay for Amulets of Health :D), and it generally only benefits my character, Bruno. Frankly, I also think it dissuages good old dragons from being uber nasty in human form *single tear*, and I do wonder at the true power of the spell (who needs good Con when you have Poly?!). But that is neither here nor there, I concede to the new ruling. Edit: Have to agree with Cat, the weekends are prime fight-runnign time for me, and I need to have at least a day (wednesday) to mull over tactics before sending them otu (which is generally Friday).
Kaigan 06-01-04, 07:52 PM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Tactics for Twyll Talaviir received. I wait tactics for Lorelei appear. Just public notice; My email has caused some trouble, and also it will be shutted down tmeporalily because my membership payment is late, so send tactics via PM. I wonder why my char is not figthing in this week? After all Vryk is not challenged nor haves Violation and if I remeber correctly, it is active in this week............ @Kazzaroth, you said that they were received. My tactics for this fight were pretty good, and seeing as you said that they were received.... I've posted Irwin vs. Delayar, hope not too many problems. Sorry that it was so late. memorial day weekend was very busy for me.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 06-01-04, 08:06 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan @Kazzaroth, you said that they were received. My tactics for this fight were pretty good, and seeing as you said that they were received.... I've posted Irwin vs. Delayar, hope not too many problems. Sorry that it was so late. memorial day weekend was very busy for me. Yes, sorry :(. I missunderstood Lorelei's tactics for being Twyll's tactics (I had posted later something regarding about that). I am very sorry that I confused you :bigeyes: . Damn my email! It is quite frigging b*tch when it comes whit sending and receiving emails (it easily takes notifications, but normal emails no......:rolleyes: ). Not to mention my bone head wich need sometimes nice and hard slap to function properly (especially late when I am in net).
freemoody 06-01-04, 08:17 PM	Lets say I'm flying on my mount. And my opponent is flying also. What happens if I try to grapple my opponent? I would think that as long as I won all my grapple checks, I could hold on to my opponent.
Captain Mutilate 06-01-04, 08:26 PM	Personally I think you should cast feather fall before you try, just in case you fudge up. Yeah, I think you could. If the opponent was flying physically (wings), he would be affected by your extra weight, and probably wouldn't be able to fly anymore. That's why you cast feather fall, so when he's 10 feet above the ground you let go and let him fall to the ground, while you float the last 10 feet, taking little damage. Dude.. I should try that sometime. Then I make an arcane mark that says OWNED!
Jindl 06-01-04, 09:16 PM	@Battousai2005 - I wanted to thank you for the story on Rhoar's battle with the megaraptor. It was great. I'm really enjoying the RP stuff people have written about the Neanderthal gentle giant... Check out Battousai's story here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3570770#post3570770). Thanks! -Jindl
Battousai2005 06-01-04, 09:28 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Battousai2005 - I wanted to thank you for the story on Rhoar's battle with the megaraptor. It was great. I'm really enjoying the RP stuff people have written about the Neanderthal gentle giant... Check out Battousai's story here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3570770#post3570770). Thanks! -Jindl Always good to know my work was appreciated. As to the gentle giant, I tend to think that most primitive people would have been free from the modern era's troubles. That, and I know some people who are 6'4" and are the most gentle caring people I know.
Battousai2005 06-01-04, 09:52 PM	Just thought I would let everyone know, Cante, Lord of the Black Flame (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3174073#post3174073) is active this week. Psionic character, Wilder. Akordia is once again active and I am hoping for better luck with her this week. (come on, WIN!) Kage is inactive, not that I'm sure he could be active as lev 9 looks frozen... I would like this week to mod only one fight so as to break even. Kinda getting ready for finals...
freemoody 06-01-04, 10:30 PM	Is it okay to change our characters alingment? I was reading over the alingment section in the PHB and I think Lawful Neutral would fit Lillith better. She's more of a "Judge" than a "Malefactor". Neutral Evil people are just...evil. Lillith loves Nature and wants to protect it, but she'll kill anyone who doesn't.
Battousai2005 06-01-04, 11:00 PM	Originally posted by freemoody Is it okay to change our characters alingment? I was reading over the alingment section in the PHB and I think Lawful Neutral would fit Lillith better. She's more of a "Judge" than a "Malefactor". Neutral Evil people are just...evil. Lillith loves Nature and wants to protect it, but she'll kill anyone who doesn't. I've seen many characters change their alignment before. I myself did it with Kage, though it was for roleplay purposes.
barrel_master 06-01-04, 11:33 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo @Cat Also, with their agreement, Zorander would like to fight the loser of the Octavian v. Drakel fight :) Octavian foolishly accepts all challenges although he feels he's better then everyone else PIG!
SnarkHunter 06-02-04, 12:18 AM	I think Zorander can fight Octavian this very level if he likes since Drak'el is...otherwise occupied :behold:.
LLMadCow 06-02-04, 12:22 AM	@Cat/Jindl - Cliodhna d'Elrich is now level eight. She has 4 wins, 8 losses, and 2 bumps. Yah for the bump system! This beautiful, glorius character has a chance. And, might I say that startingnow, her chances of survival keep getting better. I love this class, but the last three levels have been VERY TOUGH for her.
kattattack22 06-02-04, 12:24 AM	Originally posted by freemoody Is it okay to change our characters alingment? I was reading over the alingment section in the PHB and I think Lawful Neutral would fit Lillith better. She's more of a "Judge" than a "Malefactor". Neutral Evil people are just...evil. Lillith loves Nature and wants to protect it, but she'll kill anyone who doesn't. I don't see why not. I always took alignment more as an indicator than hard and fast rule. Look at Darth Vader going from Lawful Evil to Good (Not sure of Law-Chaos axis) in the Star Wars: Return of the Jedi.
Hatzinger 06-02-04, 07:36 AM	Wednesday 13.30 o clock and still no fight. Does anyone know if Limit is still with us? Haven´t heard of him since Friday, i think.
Caterane 06-02-04, 07:49 AM	@all: Now what`s up with the Online rolling? WizO_Shadow has given us a fantastic alternative, easy to use. Though it might not entirely erase the possibility to bias it reduces it to a great extend. In any case, all arguments about online connection speed are naugh with the email roller. So?
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 06-02-04, 08:00 AM	Well, I used the email roller, but I could not send results to Kaigan because his email is hidden (but I stored results to my email box, so I can send him the results if he wants them). Hmmm, the whole experience usign the email roller haves good and bad sides. When I make the rolls, I made mostly 20 d20 rolls and so on. You need only scripe the results on paper and then mark when you had used the result (so it does not become mixed or used twice). This saves alot time when it comes to roll results. Bad side is that when you need only make single roll (like 2lvl wizards magic missile), it tends to be irritating and also if you do not have detailed tactics sended/received, you tend instictively use the rolls best advantage as best possible (when you know the next roll, you know what you are going to screw/succeed). I tried in my best to be diplomatic about the matter as best what I could. These were my tougths anyways, but in my opinion the email roller is sligthly faster (if you get used to it) than online dice roller (do not need d20 rolls again and again).
Jindl 06-02-04, 08:46 AM	@Cat - There needs to be some rules about using the email roller. 1. All rolls must be used in the order that they appear on the list. (This one should be pretty obvious.) 2. We need to establish who gets the CC copy of the email (since it only goes to the pitlord +1 other person). Personally, I think it may be wise to send it to somebody other than the players. Perhap's someone would volunteer to hold the dice roll emails and verify the accuracy of rolls. This is better than sending it to one player, because the pitlord could request the rolls when pairings are first made (he doesn't have to wait for tactics), and its more fair because we don't have one player having to trust that his opponent and his pitlord used the rolls correctly, because they were the two that got the email. Personally, I think you could even mix-match them. For example, you could get all your d20's from the email roller, and then use the online roller for all the damage rolls and stuff. I think what we should do is require that all rolls be made with either the online roller or the email roller. How about that? -Jindl
Druid Roxors 06-02-04, 11:33 AM	From the depths of the Abyss I come... My wait is finally over. I shall rain death and destruction to all who oppose me. Swift justice delivered for those who ask. - I’m Back and Ready. - Sorry for the wait, earthly matters were pressing - Corinthus is Reactivated - Taking 2 Fights - Nice to see you all!
Jindl 06-02-04, 11:57 AM	@Druid Roxors - Welcome back. Corinthus has been set back to active status. @Mag, Batt, Druid - I have made the requested changes to your pitlording status. @Kaigan, Limit, Kazza - I have implemented the late penalties. I'm sorry you three are caught by the first week of the penalties, but I think there was plenty of notice given. I removed a credit from each of you, and you will not be able to pitlord for 2 weeks. @Cat, Hatz, Limit - Since Limit is MIA, I am going to delay your fight until this week and assign a different pitlord. Please do not edit your characters (Heinrich and Dr. Dre) and please send your tactics to the new pitlord assigned when I do pairings later. @All - The roster has been updated. Psionic characters have been added and set to [OK] if the subject listed them as ready. If your character is not set to [OK], then it is probably because your subject line didn't read "Ready for 2 Jun 04". Remember, all editing must be finished by 9 PM GMT today (which is 4 PM EST for those of us in the US). So get it done soon. @KerlanRayne - If you want Grym to fight, I can activate Anna to be his opponent. @kattattack22 - I want to make sure you realize that Ony has lost his last 6 fights, yet he never bumped. He could have bumped 2 times by now. You have the option of bumping him twice right now, or just continueing. This is your last chance to take advantage of these two bumps, because once I pair him tonight, you will lose this opportunity. @All pitlords - If you specifically do not want to run a Psionic character in a fight, then let me know, ASAP by posting here on the tavern. During the next 3 weeks, I will allow pitlords to say "no psionics for me". After this transition period, all pitlords will be expected to be able to run psionic and non-psionic characters. @Level 9's - Hopefully this is the last week of being frozen. There should be >12 PC's at this level next week, which should make for some good and new pairings. -Jindl
barrel_master 06-02-04, 12:11 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @all: Now what`s up with the Online rolling? WizO_Shadow has given us a fantastic alternative, easy to use. Though it might not entirely erase the possibility to bias it reduces it to a great extend. In any case, all arguments about online connection speed are naugh with the email roller. So? I'm still against the roller simply because I don't want to use it.
Myrridin 06-02-04, 12:27 PM	I can only mod one fight this week as I'm going on vacation, and that's if my gladiators can get me the tactics by 9pm EST on Thurs. Otherwise, I'll just have Zephin active and send his tactics. I'd prefer that the fight not be a psionic one.
MysticMonk2005 06-02-04, 12:44 PM	Drahk and Teesh are active for this week(two power hitters ^_^) I want to mod a fight. As for the rollers, I believe that people are honest enough to not cheat here. And I believe that people should be able to use whatever roller they want. I'm also too lazy to familiarize myself with a new roller thing.(although that might not help my case any.)
Magagumo 06-02-04, 12:56 PM	@Jindl Right, right, Ill get them marked. Also, I will gladly take on any psionics fights that my 3 chars are not involved in :D ;). After all, I'm one of the most familiarized with them, and I think it can provide the unprepared with good examples of how everything works. Also, I would like all of my characters to fight in Jindl's new obstacle arena (the massive hollowed-out column) and will be glad to run any of my fights in the new arenas as well. To my opponents/players, it would be good if we/you let your opponents know your desires, so tactics can be written with the set arena in mind.
barrel_master 06-02-04, 01:03 PM	How do the arenas work anyway? Do we say in our headings what arena we want or do we email mods as to what arena we want?
Magagumo 06-02-04, 03:04 PM	Heading and a separate PM to your Mod would be best. Perhaps PM b/t you and opponent to avoid clutter, just make sure Mod is informed by both individuals (via email/PM) of their decision.
LLMadCow 06-02-04, 03:24 PM	@Cat/Jindl - You can add the MIGHTY Herrix Ignatius to the list of fighters ready for this week. As I am now playing two characters this week, I am absolutely requesting two fights this week.
Jindl 06-02-04, 03:39 PM	@LLMadCow - Okay, Herrix has been added and your pitlording status is to request 2 fights. @Rayne - Since level 5 (where Vryk is) is an uneven level, and level 7 (where Aiki Auk is) is also an eneven level, would you consider activating Aiki Auk and delaying Vryk until next week? That would make both levels even again... -Jindl
LLMadCow 06-02-04, 03:53 PM	Cliodhna d'elrich She casually and gracefully walks up the stairs. The 13th floor, they say? I didn't even know there was a 13th floor. At the top of the stairs she finds a beautifully carved and ornate door that simply says Sponsors. She slowly walks up to the door and knocks ... no answer ... but then the door creaks open and a tall man appears at the door.Yes? I am, Cliodhna d'Elrich. I am looking for my sponsor, LLMadCow. That's me. I knew you were on your way. What can I do for you? Well, I recently became concerned about something I saw posted downstairs in the records section. It seems that there is a small section labeled Worst of the CoCo. I find it sad and mean that anyone would label people this way, but I guess there always has to be someone there, right? Well, I guess you are right, but to what do I owe the pleasure of this visit? There has to be more than talking aout this list? Well, even though it is cruel and mean, I wish to be added to this list. I fear that poor Mr. Bilo Darkleaf has had a hard life. People have mistreated him and abused him and made fun of him for his whole life. Finally he comes to fight in the arena, a noble challenge for anyone who is weak and frail, and here he is listed as weakest of the weak! Well, I am here to say that he is just as strong as I am, and if he has a position on the list, then I too, should be on the list. So, do your worst, add me to the list. I am fine with it, and I just want to let Bilo know that he doesn't have to be so angry at life. Everyone has their place in the great circle of life and I will proudly stand beside him as the weakest in the arena. Well, um, that was rather unexpected. I guess we can add you to the list, I will just have to talk to some of the people. Your name should be on the list shortly. Is there anything else? I just wanted to say thank you for sponsoring me. The arena is a big and wonderful place, and although I may not be the best here, I am enjoying my time. There are so many people and things and there is so uch good that can be done here. I do wish to keep fighting here for a time to come, for if I stop competing in the arena, my family will expect me to go home. I so wish to stay here. That won't be a problem. Stay as long as you like. With that, Cliodhna flashes LLMadCow a smile, a turns to head down the stairs. What a nice man. He looks like he could compete in the arena and fare better than I would ... I wonder what his story is...? The door quietly shuts behind her and all is again quiet on the 13th floor.
Caterane 06-02-04, 04:07 PM	Clio Strength: 6; Bilo Strength: 6 but: Clio carrying capacity: 0-20 (light), 21-40 (medium), 41-60 (heavy) Bilo carrying capacity: 0-10 (light), 11-20 (medium), 21-30 (heavy) Bilo`s also higher in level.
^Rayne^ 06-02-04, 04:09 PM	@Rayne - Since level 5 (where Vryk is) is an uneven level, and level 7 (where Aiki Auk is) is also an eneven level, would you consider activating Aiki Auk and delaying Vryk until next week? That would make both levels even again... No Problem Jindl, I will make the changes to their status when I get home, I have to go right now. Just switch the two. I wanted to run Vryk this week since no matter what he moves to 6th level (he's already lost two in a row at this level) but I can wait till next week to run him up another level. Go ahead and put Aiki Auk up this week as he is ready to rumble and leave Vryk off this weeks roster. Rayne
Jindl 06-02-04, 04:12 PM	For the "Best of" stats, ties go to the lower level PC. For the "Worst of" stats, ties go to the higher level PC. For the most losses/bumps, ties go to the lower level PC. Hope this clears it up. @Ethendril/Caterane - I would love to incorporate the Graveyard from the FU's into the World thread, which is where I believe it really belongs. -Jindl
Jindl 06-02-04, 04:20 PM	@Rayne - Okay, since it is now after 9 PM GMT, don't edit the character sheets. I'll ignore the header and make Vryk inactive and Aiki Auk active for this week. -Jindl
Myrridin 06-02-04, 04:30 PM	LL: Just a quick question. How did Herrix get Animal Growth in his memorized spell list?
LLMadCow 06-02-04, 04:43 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin LL: Just a quick question. How did Herrix get Animal Growth in his memorized spell list? Originally located on Herrix Ignatius Character Sheet Spells Memorized: 0 - Ray of Frost, Ray of Frost, X, X 1 - Shocking Grasp, Shocking Grasp, X, X 2 - Mirror Image, Invisibility, X, X 3 - Dispel Magic, X, X Where? I do not see it! If you are referring to his SPELLBOOK, that is an error on my part from past editing. It shall be removed, but note that it has ZERO impact on the upcoming pairings.
Jindl 06-02-04, 04:49 PM	@LL - I hope you're not editing it now, since it is after 9 PM GMT... @Rayne - Well, I guess my warning was too late. Hopefully kattattack22 (who will likely be your opponent, since Matei and Rhoar have a challenge match) won't mind that your character says "Last edited 9:04 PM GMT..." @ EVERYBODY - Remember, under no circumstances can you edit your characters after 9 PM GMT on Wed. If there is something that needs to be changed, post it here, but don't edit your sheet. Is that clear? -Jindl
LLMadCow 06-02-04, 04:57 PM	I must say that I am a little annoyed that this rule has come up. It is in direct conflict with the rules set forth by Mo. Quoted form THE RULES! No editing on the builds is allowed after the pairings are set, or you'll lose the match! The only reason this came up was due to CERTAIN GAME MASTER(s) who were editing their character sheet moments before THEY posted the pairings. The rest of us have ZERO impact on who we end up fighting, so even if we edit our character sheet 10 minutes prior to pairings, it is with no more information than if we edited 10 hours, 24 hours, or 36 hours prior to pairings. I say GAME MASTERS should have to adhere to this rule, and all others should be held to no more editing once pairings begins. Back to basics and a check and balance system to keep the Game Masters honest. LLMadCow - Fighting for the rights of the little people!
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 06-02-04, 04:59 PM	Then Jindl, remove me from active pitlord list completely (after two weeks I cannot pitlord anyway). Why exactly the penalty comed from? I remembered that penalties comed after thursday (generally after the pairings). Or is this because I nor others did not post the rolls?
Jindl 06-02-04, 05:11 PM	Apparently (based on LL's comments and some others that I have seen in the last two weeks) there is some confusion about things. Hopefully, I can clarify: 1. There are 4 Game Masters and they have equal status (though they concentrate their efforts on different responsibilities). They are Mo, Cat, Tellish, and me. In every respect, Cat = Jindl = Tellish = Mo. This change occured when Mo left the boards. So those of you who think that Mo has greater authority over the Game Masters needs to understand he does not. 2. The Game Masters are responsible for the running of the game. We handle admin stuff (rosters, pairings, etc) as well as creating/executing the rules of the game. Now, I'm not talking about the rules of DnD. I'm referring to the rules of the CoCo. Rules like the credit system, when fights are due, and how many credits it costs to bring in a certain ECL. Pretty much any rule that does not have to do with interpreting the DnD rules is under the control of the GM's. Now, we have established the Elder's as a group who can vote to make rules, and for the most part the GM's allow them to make rules. But the primary function of the Elder's is to set forth a standard interpretation of any DnD rules which are unclear, such as the Wild Armor issue or the Polymorph Any Object issues. The Elder's do not determine rules of running the CoCo (such as when pairings are, or what the late penalties for fights will be), unless the GM's decide to allow them to on a case by case basis. The GM's also do not deal with Code of Conduct. That is Shadow's responsibility and we happily leave it to her. 3. The goal of the GM's is to create an enviroment on this board that is fair and fun for everyone. Sometimes we have to make compromises between fair and fun, such as the current dice roller issues. But that is why we have 3 active GM's. To run the boards and make it as fair and fun for everyone as we can. Based on the growth and durability of this board, I think we are doing a pretty good job of this. Hopefully this helps to clarify what the GM's purpose and authority is and isn't. The three of us work really hard to make this place better, and I hope everyone realizes and appreciates this fact. On a sidenote: The rule LL just quoted was written by me. I have yet to update it since the decision last week to go to a standard time. There are a few other outdate rules in the FAQ that also need updating. We're working on it too. -Jindl
LLMadCow 06-02-04, 05:14 PM	@Jindl - I just want to say that I do feel kind of bad for Kazzaroth Pan'theon, since he posted his intentions on the boards and stated that he was having problems with e-mail. When he said he was going to delay a short time to corrct the confusion of e-mail, and he stayed true to his word giving the players the most time he could for them to submit tactics, no one said ANYTHING about the fact that his fight would be posted Tuesday. Mistakes are made, and when there is open confusion in a publiuc forum and everything is out in the open, ELDERS/Game Masters should step in and say something. If a message is posted in the TAVERN and there are no objections, then it should be fine. Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Then Jindl, remove me from active pitlord list completely (after two weeks I cannot pitlord anyway). Why exactly the penalty comed from? I remembered that penalties comed after thursday (generally after the pairings). Or is this because I nor others did not post the rolls? And this was from an earlier post... l, I posted in a purpose (it can be more easily noticed there). But I also was tired, so I did not yet report in here . I am very sorry for the lateness of my figth! I waited for Kaigan's tactics too long and I should had doned it my inspiration his char earlier (I mixed up whit names when I asked tactics). I try edit the battle in wednesday more (add story, fix mistakes). And as a final comment, with no disrespect to anyone of any nationality or creed, we all need to be patient and understanding of the language barrier. Many people do have trouble expresing themselves in English, as this is not their native language. Take some time, be patient and most of all, be attentive to what they are saying - the more fluent you are, the easier it is to understand those not so fluent.
Jindl 06-02-04, 05:14 PM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Then Jindl, remove me from active pitlord list completely (after two weeks I cannot pitlord anyway). Why exactly the penalty comed from? I remembered that penalties comed after thursday (generally after the pairings). Or is this because I nor others did not post the rolls? @Kazza - The penalty was for posting a fight after Monday. The standards are still in a transition period, and penalties for failure to follow standards won't begin for another week. But the guidelines about late fights have existed for quite some time, and this penalty was discussed and announced a couple of weeks ago. If you wish to be moved to the inactive pitlord list, I can move you there. -Jindl EDIT: Also, based on LL's comments, I would state that I did ask for everyone's opinion regarding whether to apply the Late Penalties this week to Kaigan, Kazza, and Limit. And the only opinions stated were to go ahead and enforce the penalty. However, if Kazza wants to appeal this penalty due to extenuating circumstances (like email problems) he needs to send a message (via PM) to Caterane, Tellish, and myself, requesting it and explaining why we should make an exception in his case.
LLMadCow 06-02-04, 05:26 PM	For the record, I just want the powers that be - Caterane, Jindl, Tellish and Mo - To know that I am not trying to be a troublemaker. Okay, well maybe part of me is, but I am mainly trying to see a fairness and equality in the arena as a whole. The boards have issues and conflicts, and we should all do our best to keep these to a minimum. I am just as to blame as anyone else, but I want my vote to be heard - NO, Kazzaroth Pan'theon should NOT be penalized this week since there were noted extenuating circumstances. I always want to help and will whenever I can. I am sorry if I am causing anyone headaches. I will quiet down for a little while. :cool:
freemoody 06-02-04, 05:43 PM	kattattack22 you have a PM.
^Rayne^ 06-02-04, 06:32 PM	@LL - I hope you're not editing it now, since it is after 9 PM GMT... @Rayne - Well, I guess my warning was too late. Hopefully kattattack22 (who will likely be your opponent, since Matei and Rhoar have a challenge match) won't mind that your character says "Last edited 9:04 PM GMT..." @ EVERYBODY - Remember, under no circumstances can you edit your characters after 9 PM GMT on Wed. If there is something that needs to be changed, post it here, but don't edit your sheet. Is that clear? -Jindl I am very sorry if I caused any problems Jindl. I was at work and found a short break to check the boards. I noticed you wanted a change in pairings but I wasn't paying attention to what time it was. I knew it was a fairly recent post and I was just trying to quickly make the change you asked for. Not that it matters too much to too many people around here but aside from changing his status to Ready for today I didn't make any changes to him since Sunday. Anyone who checks him will note he doesn't have any potions or any new 'special' circumstance gear. If it causes any problems I can pull Aiki off the roster for this week and go with Vryk since I didn't have a chance to update Vryk's status line earlier and he is within the compliance time. At least this way no one will think I did anything I wasn't supposed to do. Sorry again, it wasn't my intention to break any rules, I was busy and I posted the change because I was asked to, but I neglected to look at the time and so my PC shows as being edited 4 minutes past the cutoff mark. In the future I will be sure not to do this. -Rayne
Caterane 06-02-04, 06:51 PM	After a short discussion with Kazza I`d say we make an exception here. It clearly wasn`t his fault. Though I agree that he could`ve told us about it earlier, I don`t think this exception will encourage others to post their fights late. The penatly to sit out 2 weeks is "motivation" enough Cat
Magagumo 06-02-04, 07:00 PM	By the by, I marked CrestingDwan and Overna as ready. I presume the roster just hadn't been updated yet, but I wanted to alert ppl to that :-D @Cat Trust me, with me running 3-4 chars a week right now, I would be sunk if I couldn't Mod... :( Edit: Something I just noticed. Lorelei is a 4th lvl char, but is sitting, readied, for lvl 3... I don't think Ban'zanifal has much of a chance vs. a 4th lvl.. at least not a fair fight :P
LLMadCow 06-02-04, 07:54 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Edit: Something I just noticed. Lorelei is a 4th lvl char, but is sitting, readied, for lvl 3... I don't think Ban'zanifal has much of a chance vs. a 4th lvl.. at least not a fair fight :P Nope. Lorelei is just level 3. Do the math, look over the sheet, she is only level 3. You are likely referring to: Originally posted on Lorelei's Character Sheet Class(es): Rogue 1 / Fighter 1 / Ftr 2 Slightly confusing, but you can read that as: Rogue Level 1, Fighter Level 2, Fighter Level 3, etc. Do not read as 1+1+2 = 4.
Alterlat 06-02-04, 08:03 PM	@Kazz: Just saw your challenge in the roleplay thread. If you are talking about the second map in the gladiators thread, with the large central structure, then I'm willing to accept the challenge. Its too late to change the title of Gyle's character sheet, but I can tell the Game Masters. JINDL! Kazz's challenge is provisionally accepted. I have to agree with LL that this earlier deadline for character editing is a bit unwieldy. Even with the way it was before, we didn't have a great deal of time to update characters and make challenges. It doesn't really solve anything either - if people want to try to be tricky, they can still try to make changes just before the deadline. In the end, it still comes down to trusting that whoever does the pairings won't take adavantage of their position. Now that Jindl knows about people's concerns, I would be happy just to trust him not to make significant changes immediately before pairing, and leave it at that.
Arstimis 06-02-04, 08:16 PM	Besides the trend of fights being a little later, is the fact that Pairings have been continuously done later. There was a time when I would get up Wednesday morning (for my time zone at least) and see pairings done. Now pairings are done Wednesday night for me, and thats early...last week they were done Thursday morning
SnarkHunter 06-02-04, 08:46 PM	I'd just like to say that I'd like to have all my fighters and fights done on the new map. I like it I do.
kattattack22 06-02-04, 09:00 PM	@ Jindl - no bumps for Ony. He will win again someday on his own. It would seem wrong for his character to bump him up without earning it. Besides as people pass him by he gets to test his skills against many others which he wants to do. @freemoody - responded to your PM. @Cat - It sounds like I could handle the email roller, but still prefer to use the genuine article(s). So, will still use my dice until its required to use the email or online roller. EDIT: Please no psinoic fights for me. Since my computer has been kaput and working 8-9 hours I haven't read completely up on their powers and etc. Also, whatever fight I run I would like to test out one of the alternate maps so if the players agree to Jindl's or Rayne's maps I will whichever they chose.
Magagumo 06-02-04, 09:23 PM	Ahh.. I see now *head spins from confusing layout*..... would help if that were changed to a standard format in the future :-P
freemoody 06-02-04, 10:45 PM	Lillith and Ony (kattattack22) are fighting on the new map too.:)
Jindl 06-02-04, 11:49 PM	Re: Late Editing - Okay, I just updated the roster so that I can begin pairings. The following people edited their characters after 9 PM GMT. 1. Aiki Auk, Rayne - last edited at 9:11 pm: This was already discussed on this thread, and I think an exception should be made, as Rayne only edited the character to change the header to ready, so that we would have even #'s at lvl's 5 and 7. This change was made at a GM's request and was done very close to the pairings deadline. Additionally, we can verify with some accuracy that nothing changed other than the subject header. I think Aiki Auk should be allowed to compete. 2. Sven Enno, Market_Share - last edited at 10:21 pm: This character was updated quite some time after pairings. It is unclear how much of the character sheet changed. No discussion of this late edit has yet been made in the tavern. Since this character creates an odd # at lvl 7, and was edited much later than Aiki Auk and without a similar reason, I think Sven should automatially get a Doesn't Fight credit and wait until next week. 3. Brock Granitehand, Tellish_of_Ket - last edited at 11:36 pm: This character was updated 2.5 hours after the deadline. Without knowing how much was changed, I would suggest we automatically have this character sit out. This would create an odd number. Therefore, whatever player gets the doesn't fight will have the option of facing Brock instead of sitting out. Everyone, please take the 9 PM GMT deadline seriously. This is the second week of this and we have had several players ignore this deadline. I will be even less flexible about this in the future. -Jindl
Pitlords 06-03-04, 01:36 AM	Pairings are done. 1. Tactics are due Friday. 2. Pitlords may begin running fights with tactics on Friday. 3. Pitlords may begin running fights with default tactics on Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. Also, if both players and the pitlord agree, then the fight may occur in either Rayne's alternate arena, or my alternate arena (with the hollow center). Psionic characters and equipment is now available. To make it easy, we have given Psionic characters a temporary [Psi] tag. All pitlords should check their assigned PC's for the psionic tag and be prepared to run them. Don't forget to read the notes posted above the pairings on the Roster. Good luck to everyone. Let's see some good storytelling to go with the excellent pitlording this week! -Jindl
LLMadCow 06-03-04, 01:41 AM	I wanted to have 2 characters fight this week, but since have one and I am running one fight, shouldn't I get another credit? Just trying to keep up with everything so I can get to my next PC.
Pitlords 06-03-04, 01:49 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow I wanted to have 2 characters fight this week, but since have one and I am running one fight, shouldn't I get another credit? Just trying to keep up with everything so I can get to my next PC. @LL - Wow, you're fast. Okay, so I posted pairings, then I posted here, then I went back and put all of the wait tags and didn't fight credits, then I did the pitlording credits. So all that is done now, and you did in fact gain a credit. FYI: It's up to you if you want Clio to face Brock. Tellish edited Brock after the deadline, so he was automatically out of pairings, which made that level uneven. Clio rolled out. But, if you like, I will make the pairing between Clio and Brock. Of course, that would give you two active PC's and you would lose a credit. To address that issue, I would give you the Jo'Li vs Corinthus fight (at lvl 8) and give Magagumo the pairing between Clio and Brock. This would result in you with 2 pc's and 2 fights to run, which lets you keep the credit you gained. Let me know what you decide. -Jindl
LLMadCow 06-03-04, 01:53 AM	Clio can wait a week.
Jindl 06-03-04, 01:58 AM	@LL - Okay. @All - Please read the following quote from this week's "Fights of the Week" thread (especially the part I am highlighting in bold and in red). Originally posted by Jindl Please post any comments and concerns for the Fights of the Week of 26 May 04 below. This is also the appropriate place to post that tactics have been sent or recieved. When making comments about Fights, please remember to BE NICE !! -Jindl That's right, in an effort to prevent 2 pages of "Tactics sent / tactics recieved" on the tavern, please post all such comments on the Fights of the Week thread. Here is the link. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=251569) -Jindl
Myrridin 06-03-04, 08:28 AM	Caterane, Hatzinger: I would appreciate your tactics by 9am, EST Friday morning. I know that you guys probably already wrote them out, as it's a fight from last week, but I'm going on vacation for a week starting Sat, and would like to get it run earlier. Thanks!
Myrridin 06-03-04, 08:31 AM	LL: Not that it impacts the fight, but just thought I'd show you where it's at. It's on your chacter sheet. Taken directly from Herrix's sheet Spellbook: 82/100 Pages 0 DC 14 All cantrips 1 DC 15 Mage Armor, Sleep, Shield, True Strike, Enlarge Person, Magic Missile, Expeditious Retreat, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shocking Grasp 2 DC 16 Blindness/Deafness, Mirror Image, Fox's Cunning, Bear's Endurance, See Invisible, Invisibility, Cat's Grace, Touch of Idiocy, Rope Trick, Summon Swarm, Bull's Strength, Shatter 3 DC 17 Fly, Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Hold Person, Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Vampiric Touch, Protection from Energy, Displacement 4 DC 18 5 DC 19 Animal Growth No worries man, I know that it won't impact the fight.
Jindl 06-03-04, 08:50 AM	Please note the following change to the pairings: Level 5 Kazeira Daek'Haert, Kazzaroth Pan'theon vs Private Gyle, Alterlat: freemoody Bloodmaiden Shiaan, cellardweller vs Olinad Nath, Arstimis: Caterane Sorry, about that, I didn't notice that Private Gyle had accepted Kazeira's challenge. -Jindl
LLMadCow 06-03-04, 09:15 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin LL: Not that it impacts the fight, but just thought I'd show you where it's at. It's on your chacter sheet. Taken directly from Herrix's sheet Spellbook: 82/100 Pages 0 DC 14 All cantrips 1 DC 15 Mage Armor, Sleep, Shield, True Strike, Enlarge Person, Magic Missile, Expeditious Retreat, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shocking Grasp 2 DC 16 Blindness/Deafness, Mirror Image, Fox's Cunning, Bear's Endurance, See Invisible, Invisibility, Cat's Grace, Touch of Idiocy, Rope Trick, Summon Swarm, Bull's Strength, Shatter 3 DC 17 Fly, Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Hold Person, Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Vampiric Touch, Protection from Energy, Displacement 4 DC 18 5 DC 19 Animal Growth No worries man, I know that it won't impact the fight. Where's the confusion? I never said it was in my memorized spells. I have ALWAYS said it was in my spellbook. There is nothing stating that a character cannot have spells in his spellbook that he cannot cast. Perfectly legal. Idiotic, but legal. Don't ask, it is merely stemming from some confusion a while back, and I forgot to correct it...
Myrridin 06-03-04, 09:45 AM	I was just curious how you learned it early. I mean, there's no real reason to do so, since it just takes up pages. :) But ya know, curious.
Magagumo 06-03-04, 09:46 AM	*Sighs* And it all looked so very even at 2nd and 3rd lvl... ah well, Banzanifal and Overna will have their day I'm sure. And how did CrestingDawn end up fighting Evram?? ;) Ah those die... forcing Snark and I to fight, rather than giving all the psionic chars time to face non-psionic foes... ;)
LLMadCow 06-03-04, 09:55 AM	Looking for clarification on a few things.... 1. If you have a race that has Hit Dice, you do (or do not) need to add 1 more level for a class prior to start of play? Example: Bugbear or Bugbear with 1 level? Which do you start play with? 2. Where are the guidelines for Permamency? If dispelled, does it get put back for free at end of fight? And how does one calculate the cost? Thanks, guys.
Magagumo 06-03-04, 09:59 AM	If thyey have racial HD, then you do not start with class levels. One note, regarding psionic chars- As I look over my players for this week, I see many have cut and pasted entire sectionsffo the psionics handbook into their char sheets (notably, is Teesch, who has a massive section on psychic warrior). If we could trim these down (I know the racial blocks are slim and readabale) after this week, it would be easier on the eyes ;) Also, I want to note three things to players: Cante is wearing chainmail, not chain shirt (so please do not remind me of the error ;)) Teesch does not have 10' reach with his Large Greatsword (only reach weapons gain extra length from size, and that would be 15' reach) Teesch's moev speed in banded mail is 20', not 30' I fig this is important for players to be aware of while writing their tactics, so now they are notified.
Myrridin 06-03-04, 11:21 AM	Can you ready an action to interrupt your opponent contingent on IDing the spell they're casting at you using Spellcraft? ie. I want to ready an action to cast X if they cast Y. If they don't cast Y, then don't do X.
Magagumo 06-03-04, 11:30 AM	I believe so, as that's how one can counter someone's spell. Also, it should be noted for psionics, that oen cannot hold an action to interrupt their manifestation, if there is no sign of manifestation. On that note: Just as one can not know when a Stilled, Silent spell is being cast (aside from reactive Spellcraft when you make the save or are seeing a visual effect), a manifestation which has been concealed (Concentration: DC 15+power level) cannot be reacted to through held actions. I've noted people saying "Hold action to counter their standard action" and this is not a legitimate action- you must choose a narrow/specific trigger for your action "When they move, when they cast a spell, when they draw/ drink a potion, when they sneeze, etc." So be aware, the psionics movement holds the counters to held disruptions and grappling doom :-P
MysticMonk2005 06-03-04, 12:13 PM	@Magagumo: CrestingDawn has large masterwork weapons, does large not double the masterwork price as well? If not, Teesh would have a Mast. GreatSword.
barrel_master 06-03-04, 12:32 PM	I assume that the older map is the map most people will be using unless there is a special request by the fighters to have some other map?
MysticMonk2005 06-03-04, 12:40 PM	@Snark: Tactics recieved
Magagumo 06-03-04, 01:07 PM	No, the Mw cost is not doubled as well, only the base item cost. As this is the case, I will run the fight with him having a Mw Greatsword. I rem you asking this, sorry no one had gotten back to you. :) Also, don't forget to talk to batt so I know what arena you're using...
Jindl 06-03-04, 01:54 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo I believe so, as that's how one can counter someone's spell. Also, it should be noted for psionics, that oen cannot hold an action to interrupt their manifestation, if there is no sign of manifestation. On that note: Just as one can not know when a Stilled, Silent spell is being cast (aside from reactive Spellcraft when you make the save or are seeing a visual effect), a manifestation which has been concealed (Concentration: DC 15+power level) cannot be reacted to through held actions. I've noted people saying "Hold action to counter their standard action" and this is not a legitimate action- you must choose a narrow/specific trigger for your action "When they move, when they cast a spell, when they draw/ drink a potion, when they sneeze, etc." So be aware, the psionics movement holds the counters to held disruptions and grappling doom :-P Could you reference some rules on this? Especially on the "cannot ready to interrupt a standard action" part. AFAIK, you can ready to perform a certain action if your opponent does anything other than move - which is the same as readying against a standard action. Also, certain spells / powers allow you to percieve concealed psionic powers and silent/stilled spells. One example is the spell Arcane Sight. -Jindl
Mercy 06-03-04, 06:08 PM	What's the standard arena if none is specified? Is it the first one on the Gladiator thread or the second one?
Sindorin 06-03-04, 06:08 PM	Tactics for Tair Malek against Boldrift Mattock sent to ^Rayne^. Tactics NOT recieved by Playpal for McFartin. Tactics recieved for Dart by Mercy. I'll have plenty of time this weekend, but don't go sending them to me Sunday night, Monday is bad. Tis my intent to run the fight Saturday or Sunday. A Barb vs. a Fighter... should be good.
^Rayne^ 06-03-04, 06:45 PM	Tactics for Tair Malek have been received from Sindorin. Still waiting for Boldrift Mattock's tactics from Boldrift-Mattock.
kattattack22 06-03-04, 06:45 PM	I believe the default arena is the first one on the gladiators thread unless the gladiators agree to have it elsewhere. Looks like we have a couple people that didn't catch that tactics stuff is to be on the Fights of the Week thread :).
Battousai2005 06-03-04, 07:38 PM	Tactics recieved for Zephin. Nice, high level fight. Couldn't have been after my finals of course, but it should be fun. Question: I screwed up on Cante's character sheet. I wrote down the wrong psionic power. I was originally doing a psion, but I switched to wilder. I thought I changed the list, but I guess not. Anyway, I wanted to ask MysticMonk if he would mind too much if this was changed. Oh, the power was inertial armor. I meant force screen. If there is a problem, post it please.
Myrridin 06-04-04, 08:37 AM	Cat, Hatzinger: I'll be using the old arena for this fight, as it seems that tactics were written with this in mind. Edit: What arena I'm running in.
Myrridin 06-04-04, 08:41 AM	Hatzinger: You have a scroll of Evard's Black Tentacles bought for 375gp, as a CL 3 scroll. You can't do that. It's a min of CL 7, for the 4th level spell. It's not a huge deal, as you have the money to cover it, but it needs to be fixed after the fight. I'll note it on your character sheet.
Caterane 06-04-04, 11:31 AM	@Cellardweller, Arty, Kazaroth: The fight has been changed apparently so please reroute your tactics to the new pitlord.
Jindl 06-04-04, 11:44 AM	@Myrridin - You need to clean out your PM message box if you want me to send you a reply. Check both your inbox and your sent messages boxes, as you are currently full. -Jindl
Myrridin 06-04-04, 11:46 AM	Cleared it out. I think I figured out the problem, and will be posting the fight shortly.
MysticMonk2005 06-04-04, 12:42 PM	@all: my e-mail is currently not working. @Mag: please PM tactics
Caterane 06-04-04, 02:37 PM	@all: I have a big question. I guess I`ll run amok after 4 months of roleplaying abstinence so I seek a D&D group in New York City or Livingston vincinity (I`ll live in North Arlington, NJ). So if anyone needs an exchange student (27) who eats away your popcorn, just tell me :D Thanks Cat
MysticMonk2005 06-04-04, 06:23 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Question: I screwed up on Cante's character sheet. I wrote down the wrong psionic power. I was originally doing a psion, but I switched to wilder. I thought I changed the list, but I guess not. Anyway, I wanted to ask MysticMonk if he would mind too much if this was changed. Oh, the power was inertial armor. I meant force screen. If there is a problem, post it please. its fine by me, oh and Tactics PM'd
Battousai2005 06-04-04, 06:40 PM	Tactics for Akordia sent. Still waiting for tactics for Herrix Ignatius, LLMadCow. And how about the question above. sorry, but as I said, Cante was originally a psion EDIT: Tactics recieved, LL. Tactics sent for Akordia and Cante
MadCowTemplate 06-04-04, 09:56 PM	@ MysticMonk2005 @ nagilfarswake I have not received tactics for either character. Just an update. I'll wait till Saturday afternoon.
LLMadCow 06-04-04, 10:11 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 EDIT: Tactics recieved, LL. Tactics sent for Akordia and Cante Did you get my follow up? There was a big mistake in what I sent to you, and I had to follow up with the correction.
Battousai2005 06-04-04, 11:42 PM	Originally posted by LLMadCow Did you get my follow up? There was a big mistake in what I sent to you, and I had to follow up with the correction. Follow up recieved.
Druid Roxors 06-04-04, 11:51 PM	Remember to post Recieved/Sent Tactics on This (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=251569) thread.
SnarkHunter 06-05-04, 12:28 AM	yeah, seriously. Too tired to run the fight tonight...might do it...Sunday. We'll see.
SnarkHunter 06-05-04, 01:58 PM	Well what do yah know I ran the fight today after all. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3617263#post3617263)
Battousai2005 06-05-04, 03:02 PM	I am going to bump Akordia after that loss. Geez, my luck was horrible this week. Online and off. *sigh*
MysticMonk2005 06-05-04, 04:48 PM	@MadCowTemplate I PM'd the tactics. I'll resend them again incase
MotherBast 06-05-04, 05:18 PM	As much as it sucks for Brackin to point this out, this months FAQ in Dragon has the statement "Flurry of blows can not be used.... with any natural weapon." So, with that in mind, either a monk can never use Flurry of blows, or his unarmed strike is not concidered a natrual weapon after all....
freemoody 06-05-04, 07:31 PM	Concerning Jindl's new map with the doughnut in it, will the gladiators know if they win inititive or not. Since they can't see each other I would think not. Unless they have good listen checks.
kattattack22 06-05-04, 07:50 PM	Rhoar vs. Matei (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3619367#post3619367) is posted. I expect there might be some issues with so be nice. Story is included. I am hoping to make it the first of four parts.
Magagumo 06-05-04, 08:25 PM	The init issue came up before- we metagame this so tactics run smoothly- the characters instantly know if they won init or not, but it also makes less of a difference in the end as well. :)
Aramil Dunskar 06-05-04, 10:19 PM	Can someone please tell me how to get the exact post by someone so I can put a better format for my character sheet? Thanks. -AD
SnarkHunter 06-05-04, 11:38 PM	Pretty easy really, quote this part at the bottom and change the two postID numbers to the numbers your linking in your fight. Just keep copy and pasting this for every fight you want to link but make sure you have the right post ID #'s for each one. The easiest way to get it I've found is to find the fight you want to link to hover your mouse over the 'quote' or 'edit' button and right click (copy link location). Then past both this line below and that line into the post you want to edit and just cut and paste the post ID number from the link you copied. Try it out on a test thread first though, I think theres one floating around. 01. My fight here! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2637731#post 2637731)
MysticMonk2005 06-06-04, 01:44 AM	@MB A monks fist also counts as a manufactured weapon. It is what ever is most beneficial to the monk at the time. @AnyoneWhoCares Evram Vs CrestingDawn is up. Probly some errors (i dunno, just a guess) lemee know I hope it isn't too bad.
MysticMonk2005 06-06-04, 01:44 AM	@MB A monks fist also counts as a manufactured weapon. It is what ever is most beneficial to the monk at the time. @AnyoneWhoCares Evram Vs CrestingDawn is up. Probly some errors (i dunno, just a guess) lemee know I hope it isn't too bad.
Tellish_of_Ket 06-06-04, 01:49 AM	Originally posted by kattattack22 Rhoar vs. Matei (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3619367#post3619367) is posted. I expect there might be some issues with so be nice. Story is included. I am hoping to make it the first of four parts. Just one point on a very quick read-over. Animals do not get their own initiative. They simply act when their owners do. Originally posted by MotherBast As much as it sucks for Brackin to point this out, this months FAQ in Dragon has the statement "Flurry of blows can not be used.... with any natural weapon." So, with that in mind, either a monk can never use Flurry of blows, or his unarmed strike is not concidered a natrual weapon after all.... :) -ToK
Caterane 06-06-04, 01:54 AM	:rant: Damn, I just wanted to use Flurry of blows along with my normal weapon attacks, since it`s a natural weapon I can use it in addition. [/sarcasm] :rolleyes:
Beldin 06-06-04, 05:16 AM	Kattattack, that story was great!
kattattack22 06-06-04, 12:39 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Just one point on a very quick read-over. Animals do not get their own initiative. They simply act when their owners do. -ToK Good, that will make things so much easier in the future. @Beldin - Thanks, I may have to redo it since I am fixing the fight.
Druid Roxors 06-06-04, 04:40 PM	Question: Why is the level 9 league frozen? (i was out for about a month)
Magagumo 06-06-04, 07:03 PM	Originally, it was only Enilias, Angosh, and Toreilison, and we were tired of fighting one another. It unfreezes this upcoming week.
SnarkHunter 06-06-04, 10:45 PM	I understand MAg has some concerns about the fight, but while I have a free moment I'll be updating Evram. If its necessary I have an old version saved on my comp. Also-switiching out Deceleration for Force Screen.
Pitlords 06-07-04, 05:41 AM	The old arena map has been moved to the maps thread. From now on the new map with the obstacles in the center is the default map. However, I want to remind you all that you can request/ask for any map posted on the CoCo Maps thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=249853). You can also suggest new maps but please read the introduction first. I`ve explained everything there. Cat
Pittbull 06-07-04, 07:00 AM	@Beldin: Angosh challanges Aemon, this week might be right for his first loss!:b: :b: :b:
Beldin 06-07-04, 12:15 PM	tired of cleaning??? you'll wish you were not...:D I wanted Aemon to rest some time, perhaps retire him (tooo many wasted feats and skills, no real perspective...) but this one he will fight!
Jindl 06-07-04, 03:23 PM	This is just a reminder that Level 9 will be unfrozen this week. So update and make ready all of your 9th level characters! -Jindl
Druid Roxors 06-07-04, 06:26 PM	Ony Vs Lillith was posted on low quality formating, Ill have it ready in an hour or so.
Battousai2005 06-07-04, 06:28 PM	Just a curiosity. Apologies if this was ansawred in Jindl's list of Handle Animal prospects. What is the Handle Animal DC for a Unicorn, if this is even possible?
Ethendril 06-07-04, 06:55 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Just a curiosity. Apologies if this was ansawred in Jindl's list of Handle Animal prospects. What is the Handle Animal DC for a Unicorn, if this is even possible? Handle animal can only be used on creatures with a 1 or 2 INT. A unicorn has a 10 INT.
freemoody 06-07-04, 06:56 PM	Unicorns speak common so you can just tell them what to do.
Battousai2005 06-07-04, 07:02 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Handle animal can only be used on creatures with a 1 or 2 INT. A unicorn has a 10 INT. Then is it impossible to have a unicorn ally?
Jindl 06-07-04, 07:35 PM	Unicorns are available as cohorts (they have a listed ECL - cohort only) and as special paladin mounts. -Jindl
MotherBast 06-07-04, 08:00 PM	For some reason, the board will not let me post a response on the fights thread. I will keep trying, but just in case I am unable too, I must announce the winner of the Octavian vs. Zorander battle here. # # # # ## # # # # # # # ## # # # # ## It was Zorander, using 14 arrows. Octavian lost, using nothing. I have been trying to post the fight for an hour now. It was over 60 rounds long, so if I do manage to get the fights thread to let me post a response, I will be skipping a story and many rounds in favor of just getting it posted before the thread closes on me. I don't know if its just my computer or the boards themselves, but I've had a lot of problems with the boards today.
Jindl 06-07-04, 08:03 PM	@MB - I also am having some difficulty with the boards tonight. Hopefully they stay up enough for me to get my fight posted... -Jindl
Druid Roxors 06-07-04, 08:58 PM	The Fight Ony Vs Lillith has been posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3635195#post3635195), please send any comments to the Fights of the Week Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=251569)
Magagumo 06-07-04, 09:17 PM	I plan on having Torelilson, Banzanifal, CrestingDawn, and Overna active (Banzanifal and Overna have to fight this week due to roll-out), and I know 9th and 12th are presently odd, so I am leaving Zorander out (since I know he would automatically sit out). Otherwise, I hope most of these chars can fight, and will again run two fights this week (losing one cred). If an even spot occurs at 12th, I will activate Zorander as well ;) I am full of the crazy :P
Battousai2005 06-07-04, 10:30 PM	Cante and Armanithil will be active this week. Because I have time this weekend, I am requesting max fights. Oh, and forget Shiryokan. I'll delete him for a new idea. While I'm at it, anyone wanna tell me the advantage of a shortbow over a longbow? I have another historical concept build in mind, but I just don't know because the build, to be accurate, would use a shortbow.
Arstimis 06-07-04, 10:38 PM	Heya Cat where ya at? Olinad's fight... It's monday night I hope its done soon Tuesday before noon I will just wait to see Olinad's fate
Battousai2005 06-07-04, 10:41 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis Heya Cat where ya at? Olinad's fight... It's monday night I hope its done soon Tuesday before noon I will just wait to see Olinad's fate Cute, Arti. Real cute. I wonder how your drill sergent to be will like having a poet?
MotherBast 06-07-04, 10:57 PM	Well, I was finaly able to get the fights thread to allow me to post a reply, but when I hit submit, instead of posting my response, it crashed Explorer..... Its not just the fights thread eiter, I can't access the Character Violations thread either.... I have both character sheets and tactics saved, so if I can figgure out whats wrong, i'll post that stuff tomarrow. For a basic breakdown of what happened in the fight, read below. # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ## # # ## # Zorander hid a lot, and stayed far far from Octavian, who never, in the entire fight, spoted him, or came close to pinpointing him. (the closest he ever came on a spot check failed by 3) Zorander landed a hit on the first round (used old arena), and a crit on the second, then Octavian goes invis, and buffs. Zorander can't find Octavian, and Octavian can't find Zorander. They hunt each other for 50 rounds, and Oct is forced to refresh Greater Invis untill he is out of slots. Zorander pinpoints him 3 times, but rolls 1s two of those times, and hits once. (No favored enemy damage, as Octavian is now a hag.) Then Octavian runs out of invis, and Umbra attacks him, draning 5str. Octavian destroys Umbra with an Empowered MM, but being visable, Zorander makes quick work of him with the old arrows. Octavian closes in, but runs out of HP before he can spot Zorander, and was flying 30' off the ground, so the fall kills him.
barrel_master 06-08-04, 12:46 AM	Originally posted by MotherBast Well, I was finaly able to get the fights thread to allow me to post a reply, but when I hit submit, instead of posting my response, it crashed Explorer..... Its not just the fights thread eiter, I can't access the Character Violations thread either.... I have both character sheets and tactics saved, so if I can figgure out whats wrong, i'll post that stuff tomarrow. For a basic breakdown of what happened in the fight, read below. # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ## # # ## # Zorander hid a lot, and stayed far far from Octavian, who never, in the entire fight, spoted him, or came close to pinpointing him. (the closest he ever came on a spot check failed by 3) Zorander landed a hit on the first round (used old arena), and a crit on the second, then Octavian goes invis, and buffs. Zorander can't find Octavian, and Octavian can't find Zorander. They hunt each other for 50 rounds, and Oct is forced to refresh Greater Invis untill he is out of <A TITLE="Click for more information about slot" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||slot|AA1VDw">slot</A>s. Zorander pinpoints him 3 times, but rolls 1s two of those times, and hits once. (No favored enemy damage, as Octavian is now a hag.) Then Octavian runs out of invis, and Umbra attacks him, draning 5str. Octavian destroys Umbra with an Empowered MM, but being visable, Zorander makes quick work of him with the old arrows. Octavian closes in, but runs out of HP before he can spot Zorander, and was flying 30' off the ground, so the fall kills him. Ha ha, dam, c'est la vie I suppose. Although to be honest, it's a little annoying. :)
SnarkHunter 06-08-04, 12:49 AM	May have a new char up Tuesday. No guarentees of course, I wanna see how the numbers work out.
Jindl 06-08-04, 02:06 AM	Lorelei vs Tre'mire has been posted. The online diceroller favored one combatant over the other. -Jindl
Arstimis 06-08-04, 02:15 AM	Roster Makers: You will have to give me delayed time to fix up Olinad, as I am very busy tomorrow, and might not have anytime to do it then, I highly doubt any time before 9pm...the "dead line" So, I hope that I am allowed some extra time without being penalized. Thanks......
kedi 06-08-04, 06:27 AM	I can mod 2-3 fights this week, posting them at sunday night/on monday. Still collecting credits for chaotica. And please, he needs help, especially with huge size weapons (greatsword).
Magagumo 06-08-04, 08:36 AM	RE: Zorander v. Octavian- at least the online roller could actually speed these processes up ;) Yea, Zorander is a sneaky *******, sorry to mods who run him, but I think recently gained abilities will help speed the process up...
Jindl 06-08-04, 11:39 AM	The Roster has been updated. Tomorrow will be a sad day indeed, for if Mo doesn't update Babar and Rito Maya, they will be deleted from the inactive list after 3 months of inactivity. Laness De'ville also has reached the end of her 3 months, unless Tharkos appears and updates her. It would really be a shame to say good-bye to Rito Maya after all this time. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 06-08-04, 11:41 AM	Originally posted by Arstimis Roster Makers: You will have to give me delayed time to fix up Olinad, as I am very busy tomorrow, and might not have anytime to do it then, I highly doubt any time before 9pm...the "dead line" So, I hope that I am allowed some extra time without being penalized. Thanks...... Really? I made the same assumption and look what happened to me. :( And where NOT saying good-bye to Rito under ANY circumstance. Not in a million years. The JiCo hammer hits hard lemme tell ya when it doesn't involve one of his own. -ToK
Ethendril 06-08-04, 01:23 PM	@All: I'm currently compiling a list of everyone's favorite fights for the World Thread. I currently have most of Cat's great fights, and need to list the best fights for everyone else. If you have written a fight that merits mention in the historical archives, please send me a PM with the link to your fight and I'll link it with the Epic Battles section (only if it's good, of course;) ). I think the World Thread is really coming together. It is the campaign sourcebook for the Core Coliseum. Again, if anyone wants to submit some content for it, there's lots of room (come on, creative types, I need help!).
Magagumo 06-08-04, 06:52 PM	To Jindl, CrestingDawn has been replaced by CrestingSun, a somewhat altered version, please chnage the name and reset the win/loss record whenever you have a free chance. Thanks :)
kattattack22 06-08-04, 07:21 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril @All: I think the World Thread is really coming together. It is the campaign sourcebook for the Core Coliseum. Again, if anyone wants to submit some content for it, there's lots of room (come on, creative types, I need help!). I'm working on it, I swear! I have at least one idea, just need to put it down. There are only so many hours in the day! EDIT: How does selling your spellbook work? Do you treat like each spell inside is basically a scroll and then half the total or just half your cost of scribing spells into it? Also, I am retiring Ony. I have a new character, Krim Winn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2723435#post2723435), posted.
SnarkHunter 06-08-04, 10:19 PM	Sent a few old favs to Eth. Well I have not in fact posted the possible character (her name would have been (and may yet be!) Rose by the by.) That leaves me with one in the running at the moment, and since I have a pretty busy weekend I'd not like any fights. Caio.
Ethendril 06-08-04, 10:39 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Sent a few old favs to Eth. Well I have not in fact posted the possible character (her name would have been (and may yet be!) Rose by the by.) That leaves me with one in the running at the moment, and since I have a pretty busy weekend I'd not like any fights. Caio. Snark: Your mailbox if full, so I'll just post it here. Thanks for the links to your favorite fights...I'm also going to add the dance-off you did a few weeks ago in the bard's tale section. This section will be for fights that don't fit the "traditional" story fights, but are still laughing on the floor funny. Cat's USS Zippy story will also go there.
Arstimis 06-09-04, 01:18 AM	Edit: in responce to cellardwellar: I thought edit's had to be done by 9..or something like that on tuesday, because pairings used to be wednesday morning for me..coming up soon But as of late, pairings have been done a day later than they started out...maybe a reason for fights being later?
cellardweller 06-09-04, 01:48 AM	Arti, it is only 4:45 AM wednesday GMT - you still have 16hrs worth of edit time.
Druid Roxors 06-09-04, 05:55 AM	Question: Monk's AC + Ring of ForceShield Does it work? The ring isnt actually a shield, although you wield it "as if it were a shield" it isnt a shield... BTW, Corinthus is Ready
Magagumo 06-09-04, 08:50 AM	I believe it can be used- actually, it's likely why it is so expensive, as Monks and duelists can use it and gain the bonus :) Everyone else (including wziards) can generally just use mithral bucklers :)
Jindl 06-09-04, 08:51 AM	@Arstimis - Character Editing must be finished by 9 PM GMT on Wed (which is 4 PM EST, or 1 PM in California). Pairings will usually occur at about 11 PM EST on Wed. -Jindl
Jindl 06-09-04, 09:53 AM	Originally posted by Magagumo I believe it can be used- actually, it's likely why it is so expensive, as Monks and duelists can use it and gain the bonus :) Everyone else (including wziards) can generally just use mithral bucklers :) The item description also says that it is "weightless and encumbrance free". The monk's ac bonus works when the monk is "unarmored and unencumbered". It doesn't work when the monk "carries a shield". However, I don't think using the ring qualifies as armored, encumbered, or carrying a shield. I agree with Magagumo, the monk can use the ring. -Jindl
Arstimis 06-09-04, 09:58 AM	Ok, that good for me I guess...but a question I still have. Why have pairings been moved from getting done about now, to getting done in about 16 hours from now?
Jindl 06-09-04, 10:35 AM	Because we felt like it would be better to give a few more hours for editing instead of a few more hours for tactics. If you're wondering why fights are late, I think its due to the season. In summer, a lot of people spend their weekends outside doing stuff, and so the fights get postponed until Monday. Tactics are still due on Friday, so it's not like fights are being postponed because of late tactics. -Jindl
Pitlords 06-09-04, 11:02 AM	@ ALL - The Roster has been updated. If your character does not have a [OK] next to his/her name, then it means you have not changed the subject line of the character sheet to read "Ready for 9 June 04". If you do not set the character ready, he/she will not be paired. Remember, you only have about 5 more hours to edit your characters... -Jindl
Ethendril 06-09-04, 11:59 AM	Jindl: It looks like Vaarkalikax will be the odd man out at his level, so I've also updated Dusk and set him to ready. EDIT: @Tellish: Any interest in putting Brock's winning streak up against Dusk?
LLMadCow 06-09-04, 12:13 PM	Clio is ready for combat this week. Herrix will be sitting out. This week I will have more time for running fights. Please give me two! I want to bring in a new character! Ikari Senshi!
Tellish_of_Ket 06-09-04, 01:29 PM	Originally posted by Jindl The item description also says that it is "weightless and encumbrance free". The monk's ac bonus works when the monk is "unarmored and unencumbered". It doesn't work when the monk "carries a shield". However, I don't think using the ring qualifies as armored, encumbered, or carrying a shield. I agree with Magagumo, the monk can use the ring. -Jindl We've had this discussion before. I thought it was unanimous. You are not UNARMORED. You can use it but you'd lose your special abilities as stated. Just because it says weightless, doesn't mean it's not there. It still is. Just like a dancing tower shield still gives you the acp. right? So no Ring for the monks. that is a clear and definate rule. -ToK
Arstimis 06-09-04, 02:02 PM	I would have to agree with you tellish. From the SRD Force Shield: An iron band, this simple ring generates a shield-sized (and shield-shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring and can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC). This special creation has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance since it is weightless and encumbrance-free. It can be activated and deactivated at will as a free action. I think that backs up what Tellish said
Tellish_of_Ket 06-09-04, 02:08 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Jindl: It looks like Vaarkalikax will be the odd man out at his level, so I've also updated Dusk and set him to ready. EDIT: @Tellish: Any interest in putting Brock's winning streak up against Dusk? :) I can do that. Challenge accepted. See you on the battle field. -ToK
Druid Roxors 06-09-04, 03:14 PM	My point was that it is "As if it were a heavy shield" but it isnt actually a shield. As if Vs same as
Arstimis 06-09-04, 03:21 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors My point was that it is "As if it were a heavy shield" but it isnt actually a shield. As if Vs same as i dont think as if is really the point in question. Its the fact that it says you have to wield it. for a monk to wield any shield he would lose his ac bonus
Jindl 06-09-04, 03:44 PM	I just wanted to announce Anna's retirement. As the first Ghost of the Arena, she taught me much about stealth, telekinesis, and just plain being scary. But I think Anna's build has some severe mistakes, which I hope to fix with the new ghost that I will be introducing very soon. Anna will remain on the inactive list for the time being, though at some point she will likely disappear altogether. The new Ghost will arrive soon... -Jindl
MysticMonk2005 06-09-04, 03:52 PM	are monks even proficient with large shields? trying to use even a wieghtless sheild that doesn't get in the way, would still interfere with the monk's dodging.
MotherBast 06-09-04, 03:55 PM	I hate to do it, but I have to request not to be assigned any fights this week. My computer is still messed up, and I will probably have to re-format this weeked, if I can find the time. I don't want to have what happened this week happen again. As I only have Dra'kel active, this shouldn't be a problem, but if it is, I have credits I don't need. Sorry if this puts the other high level PLs in a bind, I hope to fix the problem soon (though I still have not determined what it is exactly.)
MysticMonk2005 06-09-04, 04:00 PM	In case of oddness, in 6th level, I can active Sarah.
Ethendril 06-09-04, 04:15 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 In case of oddness, in 6th level, I can active Sarah. Mystic Monk...I had originally planned on having Vaarkalikax fight, but the level was odd and I activated Dusk instead. Now that Dusk is fighting, I'm going to have to sit Vaarkalikax out since I don't have time to run a fight this week.
barrel_master 06-09-04, 04:34 PM	Originally posted by Jindl I just wanted to announce Anna's retirement. As the first Ghost of the Arena, she taught me much about stealth, telekinesis, and just plain being scary. But I think Anna's build has some severe mistakes, which I hope to fix with the new ghost that I will be introducing very soon. Anna will remain on the inactive list for the time being, though at some point she will likely disappear altogether. The new Ghost will arrive soon... -Jindl Ha ha, another ghost? I wonder what it'll be like.
Battousai2005 06-09-04, 04:39 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 are monks even proficient with large shields? trying to use even a wieghtless sheild that doesn't get in the way, would still interfere with the monk's dodging. ... Okay, then. While logic would dictate otherwise, I'll analyze this one. No, Monks are not proficient with shields. Still, consider this. It says that the "shield" is wieght and encumberance free. Meaning it would not get in the way of their dodging.
Magagumo 06-09-04, 04:44 PM	Hmm, I think there's a difefrence between this ring, and the tower shield though. You'll note that the ring does not say (counts as armor) and it creates a wall fo force that is treated like a heavy shield. Frankly, I know it's tricky wording, but there's no logical reason for this ring to exist if monks and duelists don't use it. It is 4x as expensive as a Mithril buckler would be, and I do think that it may be the only way monks get shield AC (outside of a spell). Consider its prohibitive cost and selective slot (there are a lot of good rings, so it's meant to be a hard decision)... I do think it was made for them alone.
Ethendril 06-09-04, 04:47 PM	What about an animated tower shield...do you still have a -2 for encumbrance when you don't have to have it in your hands?
Battousai2005 06-09-04, 04:53 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril What about an animated tower shield...do you still have a -2 for encumbrance when you don't have to have it in your hands? I'm none too sure on this one, though I beleive not. It specifies which penalties you take, which were non-proficency, Skill penalties, and arcane spell failure. Still, thats a good quesion. Judges? EDIT: Oh, yah. My reason for being here. Posted new Character Atheran Stormbringer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=159). Meet my first mounted archer build. A bit of a change from the norm.
Magagumo 06-09-04, 05:46 PM	Animated shields coutn for all benefits and penatlties, but your hands are left free. The bulk of the tower shield still interferes with your attacks, as its very existence blocks your attacks while stopping your opponent's as well.
kattattack22 06-09-04, 06:11 PM	Oh forgot to mention yesterday, The story for Rhoar vs. Matei has been fixed to reflect the corrected fight.
Druid Roxors 06-09-04, 06:28 PM	Yes, i believe the ring itself was designed to help wizards (non-proefcicient), monks and duelists (or the like) to gain a shield AC bonus. Since it is not a shield, there shouldn't be a problem with the monk ac bonus.
Magagumo 06-09-04, 06:36 PM	Veloment posted for 2nd lvl fights to prevent odd numbers- I'll take a number of fights so that I only lose one credit (2-3 as necessary).
Battousai2005 06-09-04, 06:47 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Animated shields coutn for all benefits and penatlties, but your hands are left free. The bulk of the tower shield still interferes with your attacks, as its very existence blocks your attacks while stopping your opponent's as well. Ok, that being the case, can I exchange Kage's Tower Sheild for a Heavy Steel? I haven't used it in any fights (normally, Damage over defense for me). Are there objections to this? Please? :weep:
Magagumo 06-09-04, 06:56 PM	go ahead, since you havent used it at all, we have an easy exchange policy ;)
Ethendril 06-09-04, 06:59 PM	With the announcement of Anna's retirement, may I suggest that we stop deleting gladiators once they retire? Now that I'm linking the graveyard with the Core World thread, I'd like to link all graveyard gladiators (currently 6+). I think that eventually I'd like to link all gladiators that have fought by different time period (see World thread, Year of the Dawn and Year of the Rising for an example). Perhaps we should only link those that are a certain level, but I'd like to see what people think about deleting retired gladiators...
Druid Roxors 06-09-04, 07:28 PM	About the shield, I'd say it complies with the exchange policy. About deleting gladiators I agree. Gladiators should stay as part of the history of the CoCo
^Rayne^ 06-09-04, 07:47 PM	I'm not really a big fan of deleting the old gladiators. At the very least builds of 5th level and higher should be left so if someone wants to see how a particular build faired they could take a look at some of the retired gladiators who lasted a few levels and have some history to review. I don't think space is such a large issue that all level 5+ gladiators need to be deleted to make room around here.
Battousai2005 06-09-04, 11:06 PM	Sooooooooooooo. Jindl. How about pairings?
cellardweller 06-10-04, 12:22 AM	Originally posted by Ethendril It looks like Vaarkalikax will be the odd man out at his level, so I've also updated Dusk and set him to ready. Thanks for doing that, Shiaan is my "main" character at the moment and I was saddened by the prospect of her sitting out due to # of characters.
Jindl 06-10-04, 12:37 AM	@Mag - Um, did you forget about the whole "Don't Edit after 9 PM GMT" thing? Veloment: Last edited by Magagumo on 06-09-04 at 11:36 PM. Ban'zanifal: Last edited by Magagumo on 06-09-04 at 09:58 PM. Both of these guys are going to have to sit out. -Jindl
Pitlords 06-10-04, 02:01 AM	Pairings are done. 1. Tactics due by Friday. 2. Fights may be run with tactics on Friday. 3. Fights may be run with default tactics on Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. Some notes: 1. For the second week we have some characters edited late. For the second week I have given them "Didn't Fight" credits. Starting next week, if you edit your character late, he will sit out (or automatically lose if your editing was done after pairings) and you will not get a "Didn't Fight" credit. Please pay attention to the 9 PM GMT deadline. 2. Since Ban'zanifal, Magagumo was edited late, he had to sit out at Lvl 3. This created an odd # of PC's and Evram the Soulless, Snarkhunter rolled out. If Snarkhunter wishes to fight and agrees to be paired against Ban'zanifal, Magagumo despite the late editing, then I will make the pairing and assign a Pitlord. If you want to pitlord this fight, please post here (first come, first serve). Snark, please post your decision here also. 3. In order to honor a challenge at Lvl 12 between Dra'kel Mourning, MotherBast and Zedarak, Caterane, I had to pair Kelek, Tellish_of_Ket against Pale-Rider, Market_Share. Kelek and Pale-Rider recently faced each other (approximately 3 fights ago). If these two players have a strong objection to the rematch, then I can break the challenge and randomly assign the Lvl 12 pairings. Tellish and Market, please post any objections here. Good luck on all the fights this Week!! -Jindl
LLMadCow 06-10-04, 03:18 AM	I have more time this week and will post fights as soon as I can run them. I am hoping that players send me tactics fast and I hope to have mine sent out tomorrow. If that 3rd level fight becomes available, I would like it.
Druid Roxors 06-10-04, 05:53 AM	@ Everyone: I think I might have a decent solution to the anti-trust problem on rolls... People like to have the character stats and tactics on paper, just like I do. Rolling on paper is only logical, for it eliminates an extra step, going into your computer. The main problem that arises here is that computers can slow down a fight, Drastically. I have a solution that can help ease this out. Lets say that Corinthus is fighting Vandaeris. This is what the pitlord would do: 1. Go into an online roller such as http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/ 2. Open a new roll for character Corinthus and add a note "1-40 d20". Give it 40 d 20's and let it roll. 3. Open a new roll for character Vandaeris and add note "1-40 d20". Give it 40 d 20'd and let it roll. 4. Print results, use them in the order they occur according to tactics. 5. Link the two (or more if you needed more than 40 d 20's) rolls on the fight. Now, the reason why I think this is a great idea is because most rolls are d20's and those that are not tend to have less impact on the fight itself. 10d6 tend to an average of 35, rarely do they scale much in any direction. D20's are the problem here, imo. Using this method, you have all your rolls done and it won't slow you down a bit, while adding some extra credibility to your fight. Note: I realize my english might be a little bit off, but its 5AM and this just came to mind and had to post it :)
Magagumo 06-10-04, 08:53 AM	@Jindl Got my time zones mixed up, actually. Veloment isn't edited, as much as he was created then *hangs head in shame* I heard something about having extra time (16 hrs) to edit. And I dont get off work till 9 GST, and have no access to a comp. Thusly, I got my self mixed up. Since Snark and I had planned to fight one another anyways, do you suppose Ban and Evram could fight? Also, you have Cresting Sun fighting Carcess, but I know you meant Overna Mimesis. *shrug* honestly, I can understand the reasons for the rule, I just got mixed up and stuck in a bad position with work...
Jindl 06-10-04, 09:05 AM	Yep, Overna should be facing Carcass. It looks like a little cut/paste error. It has been fixed: Level 2 Overna Mimesis, Magagumo vs Carcass, cellardweller: MadCowTemplate Also, have Snark post here if he wants Evram to face Ban'zanifal. LL already volunteered to run the fight. -Jindl
MysticMonk2005 06-10-04, 10:58 AM	As too the working on paper, I just copy and past everything into notepad, and run the fight there. I have access to an online roller right there (I also have cable so its nice and fast for me)
SnarkHunter 06-10-04, 11:25 AM	Le sigh. Of the three possible opponents at 3rd lebel Ban would have been my last choice. But I'll take it.
Jindl 06-10-04, 11:54 AM	Based on Snark's acceptance, I have made the following pairing: Level 3 Ban'zanifal, Magagumo vs Evram the Soulless, SnarkHunter: LLMadCow Credits for pitlording have been adjusted accordingly. -Jindl
Aramil Dunskar 06-10-04, 12:11 PM	*ANNOUNCEMENT* Since school is finally over for myself I would ask that I would be taken off the inactive list for the pitlords and return to the active list. But I also request that I shall get 1 credit a week, nothing more. -AD
Boldrift-Mattock 06-10-04, 12:57 PM	I am going to go ahead and bump my character becouse he has lost three times at 4th LVL. I hope no one minds. Boldrift Mattock
kattattack22 06-10-04, 01:07 PM	At the request of cellardweller and Kazz I will run their fight in the No Fly Zone Arena. May God have mercy on my soul. JK, Kazz and cellardweller expect the fight to be posted late Sunday or late Monday. I'm going to get this right...
Dawnlord 06-10-04, 05:16 PM	Well met. Caterane PMed me already an introduction to CoCo and I'm also lurking around here for a while now. As it looks like I'm going to moderate a low level fight next week. It seems that my interests in the CoCo are a bit different as I'm not going to have a Gladiator. I just want do mod fights. So I just wanted to say hello to all of you.... after all some of you will have to give the life of their Gladiator in my hands.
kattattack22 06-10-04, 07:58 PM	Welcome Dawnlord.
Battousai2005 06-11-04, 12:38 AM	@Dawnlord: Love the sig. Always glad to have a new mod. Question to all: I was looking at the description for a Drider. It says that they cast spells as a 6th level Cleric, Wiz, or Sorc. My question is that should the drider take levels as a class of the same veriety (ex. cast spells as a 6th lev sorcerer and take sorc levles) would they gain levels as though they advanced a level in that class? In other words, are they treated as being a 7th lev caster or a 6th lev caster and a 1st all over?
MysticMonk2005 06-11-04, 01:06 AM	I would think that they stack...
Magagumo 06-11-04, 08:36 AM	*nod* Any creature with previous caster levels adds them to current levels :) Driders make crazy Mystic Theurges/Cerebromancers I would think....
Hatzinger 06-11-04, 08:42 AM	If only the Rakshasa wouldn´t have such a big LA, the´d make frightening good Sorcerers. hm.... evil dms can still forget about the LA when creating NPCs ;)
Jindl 06-11-04, 09:31 AM	Question: Can an incorporeal creature deliver touch spells via a spectral hand? -Jindl
Dawnlord 06-11-04, 10:24 AM	@Jindl I can't see a connection between the physical form of the caster and the spell. Can you?
Jindl 06-11-04, 10:49 AM	Well, an incorporeal creature normally cannot use touch attack spells on corporeal targets. However, since a spectral hand delivers the touch spell for you, I think an incorporeal creature should be able to use a spectral hand to deliver a touch spell. I was looking for other comments/opinions on this. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 06-11-04, 01:07 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Well, an incorporeal creature normally cannot use touch attack spells on corporeal targets. However, since a spectral hand delivers the touch spell for you, I think an incorporeal creature should be able to use a spectral hand to deliver a touch spell. I was looking for other comments/opinions on this. -Jindl You are right the first time. You cannot deliver touch spells. Regardless of the source. The spectral hand isn't a seperate entity that you order to deliver touch spells, it's a part of you. It simply extends the range over which you could deliver touch-spells (assuming you could in the first place) for the low cost of a bit of your life force. (heck, let's even assume it's positive energy that's being drawn because if it related to negative energy, it would definately make the distinction) -ToK (just my opinion)
Druid Roxors 06-11-04, 01:23 PM	The spectral hand is a separate entity. A corporeal creature still creates in incorporeal spectral hand, just as an incorporeal creature creates an incorporeal spectral hand. The spell would work on anna unless she would dematerialize and use the spell on the ethereal plane. Then, the hand would be an ethereal incorporeal hand. IMO, Spectral hand allows for touch attacks if cast by in incorporeal creature. "For as long as the spell lasts, any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you cast can be delivered by the spectral hand" Not "For as long as the spell lasts, any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you can cast and deliver can be used with spectral hand"
Battousai2005 06-11-04, 01:32 PM	Thanks for the help with caster creatures. Makes my next character idea all the better. :D :angel: :D @freemoody: Please look at the Comments/Concerns thread.
Druid Roxors 06-11-04, 01:57 PM	@ Market Share @ Freemoody I have sent replies to both your tactics, they require revision.
Dawnlord 06-11-04, 03:54 PM	Originally posted by Jindl [B]Well, an incorporeal creature normally cannot use touch attack spells on corporeal targets.... Ah, I see. Here's my interpretation: As the spectral hand is incorporeal and is able to deliver touch attacks (with an ?incorporeal? touch attack), an incorporeal creature can do this too. Fuzzy thing but it seems this was discussed and defined already. I will memorize this.
Magagumo 06-11-04, 04:16 PM	Hmm... I'm confused, where does it say Incorporeal creatures cannot deliver touch spells?
Druid Roxors 06-11-04, 04:59 PM	Ghost entry SRD Manifestation (Su): Every ghost has this ability. A ghost dwells on the Ethereal Plane and, as an ethereal creature, it cannot affect or be affected by anything in the material world. When a ghost manifests, it partly enters the Material Plane and becomes visible but incorporeal on the Material Plane. A manifested ghost can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons, or spells, with a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source. A manifested ghost can pass through solid objects at will, and its own attacks pass through armor. A manifested ghost always moves silently. A manifested ghost can strike with its touch attack or with a ghost touch weapon (see Ghostly Equipment, below). A manifested ghost remains partially on the Ethereal Plane, where is it not incorporeal. A manifested ghost can be attacked by opponents on either the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane. The ghost's incorporeality helps protect it from foes on the Material Plane, but not from foes on the Ethereal Plane. When a spellcasting ghost is not manifested and is on the Ethereal Plane, its spells cannot affect targets on the Material Plane, but they work normally against ethereal targets. When a spellcasting ghost manifests, its spells continue to affect ethereal targets and can affect targets on the Material Plane normally unless the spells rely on touch. A manifested ghost's touch spells don't work on nonethereal targets. A ghost has two home planes, the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane. It is not considered extraplanar when on either of these planes. Incorporeal creatures can deliver touch attacks, Ghosts cant.
Druid Roxors 06-11-04, 05:16 PM	Aaaand... Using this logic... The hand is not a ghost, its an incorporeal creation so it can deliver touch attack spells for a ghost. Much like a ghost who uses malevolence (possession) and is able to use touch attack spells, even though it is still a ghost.
Hatzinger 06-12-04, 03:17 AM	The MM has been Errata´d ! See this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) link for the Errata. As many of you guys use a megaraptor or swarms and the Errata says that these creatures were heavily changed, i´ll post their statistics here: Dinosaur, Megaraptor Monster Manual, page 60 Large Animal Hit Dice: 8d8+43 (79 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares) Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15 was: 16 (-2 size, ...) touch 10, flat-footed 14 Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15 was: +6/+19 Attack: Talons +10 melee (2d6+5) was: +9 melee (2d8+5) Full Attack: Talons +10 melee (2d6+5) and 2 foreclaws +5 melee (1d4+2) and bite +5 melee (1d8+2) was: Talons +9 melee (2d8+5) and 2 foreclaws +4 (1d4+2) and bite +4 (2d6+2) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. was: 15 ft./ 10 ft. Special Attacks: Pounce Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent Saves: Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +4 Abilities: Str 21, Dex 15, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10 Skills: Hide +9, Jump +27, Listen +12, Spot +12, Survival +12 was: Hide +5, ... Feats: Run, Toughness, Track Environment: Warm forests Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3-6) Challenge Rating: 6 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: 9-16 HD (Large); 17-24 HD (Huge) was: 17-24 (Gargantuan) Level Adjustment: - Swarms Monster Manual, pages 237-240 The bat swarm and spider swarm are immune to weapon damage. was: this was just clarified. The descriptions didn´t match the swarm traits. Hellwasp swarm has good maneuverability for its fly speed. was: no maneuverability was listed.
Jindl 06-12-04, 07:59 AM	So its not as Mega as it used to be. Good timing on that, btw :( (@Battousai - have you run the Rhoar vs Heinrich fight yet?) -Jindl
Hatzinger 06-12-04, 08:06 AM	Just saw the message on enworld. Thoughed to share it with y´all. (and to tease Jindl, of course.:D )
Battousai2005 06-12-04, 11:37 AM	Originally posted by Jindl So its not as Mega as it used to be. Good timing on that, btw :( (@Battousai - have you run the Rhoar vs Heinrich fight yet?) -Jindl In the process of running. I ran into some complications (screwed up on tactics) and decided to make sure nothing changed. Anyway, fight should be up fairly soon.
cellardweller 06-12-04, 12:21 PM	Can natural attacks substitute for IUS when qualifying for feats? I can't find any text to say so, but both barbed devils and belibiths use it.
Battousai2005 06-12-04, 07:48 PM	Rhoar vs. Heinrich done. Can be found here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=713) So, while I'm here, a question. Are there special rules for non-abilities. ex. Undead and Con?
Magagumo 06-12-04, 08:51 PM	Undead use Charisma for Con-based scores, but Con-based Special Attacks (like poisons), are based off a +0 modfier.
Kaigan 06-12-04, 09:14 PM	@All, but mainly Jindl, and Cat: Enilias has lost for the third time in a row, so I am bumping him to level 10. Just letting you guys know...
Pitlords 06-13-04, 04:24 AM	Originally posted by Kaigan @All, but mainly Jindl, and Cat: Enilias has lost for the third time in a row, so I am bumping him to level 10. Just letting you guys know... Enilias has been bumped. Ah, the higher you rise the higher the fall, eh Kaigan :) Heinrich vs Rhoar is far from finished so I`ll wait until Battousai corrects the mistakes. Cat
Hatzinger 06-13-04, 05:41 AM	What do you think? Does a user of the "rope trick" spell has to make a skill check (climb) to access his spell? [EDIT:] Forget it. The climb skill description says yes.
Hatzinger 06-13-04, 07:35 AM	@Pitlords: I´d like to mod one fight from next weekend on. Please, no psionics and none of Arstimis´ characters.
Captain Mutilate 06-13-04, 12:08 PM	Pard vs Armanithil posted! (http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3685653#post3685653)
kattattack22 06-13-04, 02:10 PM	Shiaan vs. Kazeira (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3686246#post3686246) is posted with continuation of the story I started last weekend. Find out what Rhoar and Matei unleashed!
Jindl 06-14-04, 01:20 AM	@Mag, Druid Roxors - Please check the Fights of the Week thread regarding the Corinthius vs Enialis fight. -Jindl
Battousai2005 06-14-04, 02:46 PM	@Cat: Sorry for the lateness of the fight. I actually had things to do yesterday. @Pitlords/Elder Mods: Are 1s treated as auto misses?
Jindl 06-14-04, 02:51 PM	@Batt - Yes on attack rolls and saving throws. No on skill checks and other rolls (with some specific exceptions, like Use Magic Device). @All - If you are a pitlord, please check the active pitlord list. I have removed a couple of people from "probation" status and have changed Hatzinger back to active (in addition to a few other changes). Please ensure that your fight requests (the thing in <>'s) is accurate. -Jindl
Myrridin 06-14-04, 03:13 PM	I can go back to taking max fights again please. Also, I will be giving up on the Rowan character for a bit; something about how her first fight was modded left a bad taste in my mouth.
Jindl 06-14-04, 03:39 PM	@Magagumo (Bruno), Market_Share (Pale-Rider), and everybody else - From the SRD False Life Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 hour/level or until discharged; see text You harness the power of unlife to grant yourself a limited ability to avoid death. While this spell is in effect, you gain temporary hit points equal to 1d10 +1 per caster level (maximum +10). Material Component: A small amount of alcohol or distilled spirits, which you use to trace certain sigils on your body during casting. These sigils cannot be seen once the alcohol or spirits evaporate. No more casting false life on skeletons, phantoms steeds, allies, etc. It has a range of personal and a target of you. *shakes fist at them thinking of all the times they got away with this one... * -Jindl
Magagumo 06-14-04, 04:22 PM	Hmm.. I guess I did do this, sorry bout that :). Ah well, at least Phantom Steeds will be easier to kill....
kedi 06-14-04, 04:56 PM	I was wondering if I could loan 3 credits for my chaotica. I will mod 2-3 fights next week, but I want to see chaotica in next week's pairings. Please?? :rolleyes: :angel:
Magagumo 06-14-04, 05:00 PM	Go right ahead, kedi, 2-3 creds is easy to make up with you MOding this week. Finished revisions of Enilias v. Corinthus- lessened Flamestrikes didn't kill Lightning and Enilias, but gravity did... Items used did not change.
MotherBast 06-14-04, 05:03 PM	I noticed that False Life thing back when Sanzin took the Extend Spell feat. I thought I mentioned it.... must have forgotten to do so. It can still be used on familures though. Now, a question specificly for GMs and my fellow elders. Do we plan to ever reach any conclusion on the Allies debate? I was kinda hopeing to see it resolved before the 13s unfreeze, but no discussion has taken place on the issue in about a month. Are we planning to leave allies as is? Impose ECL or CR limits on allies? I think a decision on this issue is wayyyyyy past due.
Ethendril 06-14-04, 05:11 PM	MB: I think I'm ready to vote, too. There was a lot of support for ECL -2, I thought, but one sticking point was that we needed some other formula for undead companions. My vote would be for ECL -2 (same as leadership and Thaumaturgist), with a higher limit for undead. I would then want to remove the permanent death penalty on non-leadership allies. That's my vote.
LLMadCow 06-14-04, 05:13 PM	@Market_Share - Thanks for the fight. Clio has a tough fight anytime she enters the arena, but this time she managed to win! Aren't you thrilled? Sorry it took so long, I did the best that I could manage!
MotherBast 06-14-04, 05:16 PM	You know, I was thinking that for undead, we could do it based on the Base Creature. cause all the undead that get created get there HD doubled by the creater anyway, why not say the "Base Creature" must be ECL -2. Then, I would also support removing the perminit death of allies rule, and also, since all allies would be ECL -2, I see no reason to force anyone to fight for the allie, as it would then be almost a given that they would win.
Ethendril 06-14-04, 05:27 PM	I like that, MB. That's exactly what I'm voting for.
Magagumo 06-14-04, 06:19 PM	I was wondering when the allies would come up again (my giant-killing finger was almost getting twitchy ;)). Remember that Undead HD are not doubled for skeletons, just zombies. Also, because I know Cat will have a fit, remember that basing ECL off the base creature hurts undead more.. dragons and outsiders lose most of their capabilities, but have enormous ECLs... perhaps ECL +2 would work better, and zombies would have their HD divided by 2 and leave that as base calculation? For outsiders, it might be important to make concessions, as they have less HD for more general power (ECL-2 for skeletons) To demonstrate ECL+2 (based on Undead's HD-2, HD+2, or HD/2) Cloud Giant Skeleton: 17-2=15th character, CR 7 Chimera Skeleton: 9-2= 7th character, CR 4 Grey Render Zombie: 20/2=10th character, CR 6 Very Young Red Dragon Zombie: 20/2= 10th character Nightmare Skeleton: 6+2=8th character, CR 3 Chauchemar Skeleton: 15+2=17th character, CR 7
Mercy 06-14-04, 07:41 PM	Are the rocks in the latest arena only 5-ft high as they were in the old arena?
Ethendril 06-14-04, 07:44 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo I was wondering when the allies would come up again (my giant-killing finger was almost getting twitchy ;)). Remember that Undead HD are not doubled for skeletons, just zombies. Also, because I know Cat will have a fit, remember that basing ECL off the base creature hurts undead more.. dragons and outsiders lose most of their capabilities, but have enormous ECLs... perhaps ECL +2 would work better, and zombies would have their HD divided by 2 and leave that as base calculation? For outsiders, it might be important to make concessions, as they have less HD for more general power (ECL-2 for skeletons) To demonstrate ECL+2 (based on Undead's HD-2, HD+2, or HD/2) Cloud Giant Skeleton: 17-2=15th character, CR 7 Chimera Skeleton: 9-2= 7th character, CR 4 Grey Render Zombie: 20/2=10th character, CR 6 Very Young Red Dragon Zombie: 20/2= 10th character Nightmare Skeleton: 6+2=8th character, CR 3 Chauchemar Skeleton: 15+2=17th character, CR 7 I think that since you've had the most experience with undead companions, you should make a proposal that fits here... Do you think ECL +2 would be enough for undead?
Druid Roxors 06-14-04, 08:08 PM	Sven Enno Vs Lillith Earth-Fury is now Posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3697789#post3697789) Please direct any concerns to This week's Problems and Concerns thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=255835)
Druid Roxors 06-14-04, 08:27 PM	On the allies Issue: I vote CR - 2 (or 3)
SnarkHunter 06-14-04, 10:17 PM	Yay! The board is working again. Just wanted to say I'm working on Aemon vs. Angosh right now.
Tellish_of_Ket 06-14-04, 10:31 PM	Well, this is twice now i have a late posted fight and i can't afford to stay home from work for a stupid fight. Exceptions need to be made for gladiators whose fights are posted late because it's a lose/lose situation otherwise. -ToK
Battousai2005 06-14-04, 10:57 PM	While this may be premature, I would like to note the following things. 1) I would like to mod the max # of fights possible this week. I have some free time, so why not? 2) Kage is coming off the inactive this week. 3) Atheran (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=159), my newest character, will be joining the lev 2 ranks this week as well.
SnarkHunter 06-15-04, 12:23 AM	Aemon vs. Angosh is up. A little later then I'd like, but unforseen naps can do that to a body. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3699905#post3699905) EDit: I'm with yah Tellish, I hope everythings all right on LL's end. He's usually pretty good about this stuff.
kattattack22 06-15-04, 01:27 AM	I am deleting Krim Winn and not replacing him until I make up my mind on a build or come up with something awesome. Arkin Jozil should be my only active character. I would still like 1 fight per week.
KerlanRayne 06-15-04, 02:05 AM	Kedi, check the Fights of the Week thread for my post. KerlanRayne
cellardweller 06-15-04, 03:20 AM	Originally posted by cellardweller Can natural attacks substitute for IUS when qualifying for feats? I can't find any text to say so, but both barbed devils and belibiths use it. No responses... So I'll assume its ok for Shiaan to pick up Imp Grap at L9 then.
Druid Roxors 06-15-04, 03:57 AM	Originally posted by cellardweller No responses... So I'll assume its ok for Shiaan to pick up Imp Grap at L9 then. If I remember correctly, Natural weapons qualify as IUS
Beldin 06-15-04, 07:27 AM	is it possible that i exchange a never used skill (bluff) with another (disguise), so that i qualify for the assasin class?
Magagumo 06-15-04, 08:41 AM	Ok, my official proposal is that the ECL of Undead Companions be HD-2 for skeletons, and (HD/2)-2 for zombies. We can adjust this number if we need to, but essentially, a player can have a skeletal servitor with HD equal to his own level, and zombies.. well, you do the math ;)
Pitlords 06-15-04, 09:26 AM	@kedi - Set Chaotica ready for this week and borrow the 2-3 credits. @Mercy - Yes, the rocks are still 5 ft high. @Tellish - I'm open to any suggestions to help the players involved in a late fight posting. I will mention that I would suggest a minimun time allowed to edit and that if the "late fight" was posted earlier than this minimum time, then the player would be assumed to have enough time to edit. Personally, I think 24 hours should be enough, but that's just my opinion. If 24 hours were used as the minimum time, then a player would be guaranteed 24 hours to edit their PC, even if that time took them past the 9 PM GMT rule. @Batt - 1,2,3 - done. @katt - okay. @cellar - I agree with Druid Roxors. Natural attacks do qualify as IUS. @Beldin - go ahead and exchange. It has been allowed in the past. RE: The ALLY DEBATE + VOTE - I think we should start a new thread to create the proposals. Then the Elders will vote on it. I'll start the thread, and then Mag, you can move your proposal to it. The thread will be open to all for discussion, but the Elder's will be the ones voting on the issue. I think we should set the vote to occur next weekend (to give ~10 days for discussion). This would still be in plenty of time before the Lvl 13's unfreeze, which should happen in about 3 more weeks). -Jindl
Jindl 06-15-04, 09:50 AM	Unless someone can offer a compelling reason not to, I'm now going to assess a Late Penalty to LLMadCow for the Ban'zanifal vs Evram fight, which is the only one still not posted. Also congrats to Beldin, as Aemon advances to 8-0. Will anybody be able to put an end to his winning streak? Perhaps he will challenge one of Caterane's two characters this week... -Jindl
Pittbull 06-15-04, 10:05 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Also congrats to Beldin, as Aemon advances to 8-0. Will anybody be able to put an end to his winning streak? Perhaps he will challenge one of Caterane's two characters this week... -Jindl [/B] @Jindl: I tried to stop it, but was unlucky. But this week I have the chance to end a streak again: RHOAR is challanged by Angosh.
Jindl 06-15-04, 10:07 AM	Originally posted by Pittbull @Jindl: I tried to stop it, but was unlucky. But this week I have the chance to end a streak again: RHOAR is challanged by Angosh. Poor Rhoar. Everybody always comes to him to pick a fight. He'd much rather just lay in the sun and eat fruit and smell the flowers. Still, he's never backed away from a fight yet. So why start now? Challenge Accepted. -Jindl
Beldin 06-15-04, 10:16 AM	is pitlording a non psionic fight still an option?
Jindl 06-15-04, 11:15 AM	Originally posted by Beldin is pitlording a non psionic fight still an option? Yes, but starting in August, I will expect all pitlords to be able to do both psionic and non-psionic fights. Since psionics first entered in June, that should give everyone 2 months to learn how to run the fights. -Jindl
LLMadCow 06-15-04, 11:17 AM	@Jindl - Yes, give me the late penalty. Also, it has come to my attention that despite bing posted there was a serious problem with it - the file I had saved it to apparently crapped out and so the fight has to be re-run. I cannot get to it today, and I apologize to the two contenders. I can re-run it this week and leave it at that, or I can forgo and let someone else re-run it. Your call. @Mag & @Snark - Please forgive me.
Jindl 06-15-04, 11:25 AM	@LL - That sounds like an acceptable solution. I'm sure Snark and Mag won't mind ;) I'll just have the fight carry over for this week. Snark and Mag - Don't edit your characters, and LL will use the same tactics to complete the match. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 06-15-04, 02:00 PM	Aemon has run unscratched for too long, what a pitty, I didn't notice earlier. Corinthus Avius challenges you Aemon. I hope your knees can hold you up long enough to accept my challenge.
Magagumo 06-15-04, 03:58 PM	Another week fo having to face Snark!! :eek: Nah, it's cool dude, good luck with the re-run... By the way, who won the first time? ;)
SnarkHunter 06-15-04, 05:39 PM	I don't mind tremendously, though I am curious as well...
Kaigan 06-15-04, 07:18 PM	Yeah!!! no more penalty from modding. @Jindl or Cat: I'd like two fights this week please, because Twyll will be coming back!!
kattattack22 06-15-04, 08:29 PM	@Someone who would know - How do figure how much a spellbook is worth? 1)Treat each spell scribed into it as a scroll and total it up 2)How much you spent to scribe spells into it 3)Some other way I am not seeing I asked this last week, but didn't get a response.
Magagumo 06-15-04, 09:33 PM	I believe its 50 gp per page, so 5000 gp for a full book. Essetially half-price, since it costs 100 gp per page to scribe spells in...
Battousai2005 06-15-04, 10:14 PM	Genaral question to anyone and everyone: What are the specific rules for negative credits? I notice that Ethindril has 4, while Arti, offline, said the max was 3. Are there penalties/disadvantages to having them? Just curious as I have and ECL character in mind and wasn't sure when I'll be able to get the creds. Speaking of which, I think I'll leave Atheran on Inactive unless there is an imbalance. I don't know if I really want to use the character. Looking at him, he does have a few problems that I didn't see before.
Ethendril 06-15-04, 11:07 PM	Batt: The maximum negative credits is -3. Jindl won't update it until tomorrow, though, but I have an additional credit that puts me at -3, not -4.
Jindl 06-15-04, 11:46 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Batt: The maximum negative credits is -3. Jindl won't update it until tomorrow, though, but I have an additional credit that puts me at -3, not -4. True. Ethendril will recieve a + tomorrow when I run pairings as a reward for his continueing work on the World Thread. This will leave him with -3. -Jindl
Dawnlord 06-16-04, 05:01 AM	@Pairing-Lord (Jindl I think) I also request a non-psionic fight. I PMed this also to the Pitlords account. Regards
Jindl 06-16-04, 09:42 AM	@Mag - j/k :D I doubt Cat will have any active characters, since he is now in NY and temporarily without internet access. It appears that Zorander and Pale-Rider will be the only active characters at Lvl 12. Do you wish to face Pale-Rider again (for like the 3rd time)? Or do you guys wish to wait for some fresh meat? There's a whole bunch at Lvl 9 that will be there soon. -Jindl
Beldin 06-16-04, 11:16 AM	so no challenge for Ixidor. shall i be relieved or not...
Pitlords 06-16-04, 11:45 AM	The Roster has been updated. If your PC does not have an [OK] next to his name, then you forgot to change the subject header to read "Ready for 16 June 2004". There are quite a few uneven levels. There are many characters who have not been set ready. Of special note: There will not be a match between Corinthius and Enilias at Lvl 10, because that would be an instant rematch. If another Lvl 10 character does not activate, then both Corinthius and Enilias will sit out for the week. Remember, character editing must be completed by 9 PM GMT (in about 4 hours, 15 minutes.) Pairings will be tonight. -Jindl
Ethendril 06-16-04, 12:13 PM	Jindl: I just received your PM regarding evening up levels. I'll make some purchases for Dusk and activate him. Mag: You know that Tori and Dusk must fight. Her vile, serpentine ways have attracted the attention of the Celestial Forces for many months. Dusk challenges Tori to a battle to the death. Although, with your AC of 26 and mine of 29, would we ever hit each other?
Mercy 06-16-04, 01:04 PM	Ride check regarding jumping you're horse. Do we consider horse do we consider horses to have ranks in jump so that they wouldn't fall prone after making a jump or do they need make the jump DC by 5 or more?
MysticMonk2005 06-16-04, 01:11 PM	If lvl 4 is still odd by the time pairings are done, consider Pard active. I'll take a neg. cred.
Jindl 06-16-04, 01:13 PM	@Mercy - Yep, a horse would land prone if it didn't beat the DC by 5 or more. Sometimes I wonder about the MM entries, especially when stuff like this comes up. -Jindl
Jindl 06-16-04, 02:45 PM	@LL - In answer to your PM: As long as it doesn't change the cost of anything, its fine. It will work just like a scroll case (and should weigh about the same). -Jindl FYI - Your mailbox is full. Make sure you delete the PM's that are saved in your Sent box. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 06-16-04, 03:46 PM	Beldin! Activate Aemon! Are you so affraid of losing your winning streak?
Battousai2005 06-16-04, 03:52 PM	@Jindl: Akordia was set to active so as to give Arti a fight. Remember: max fights. @Arti: Well, at least we have the same LA. Makes things a bit more even.
Jindl 06-16-04, 04:02 PM	Just under the deadline, eh Battousai? Well, its 9 PM GMT. Don't edit anymore if you want your PC to get paired. -Jindl
Magagumo 06-16-04, 04:08 PM	Toreilison accepts Dusk's challenge and may post a witty RP later :). Since I can't edit to note challenge acceptace, let it be noted here. Also, Zorander will freeze for now, leaving me room for my 4 fighting chars this week :D (Two fights please, since Banzanifal's fight does not count for this week. Thusly, I still am even on creds :))
Ethendril 06-16-04, 04:20 PM	Excellent, wicked one...this will be the battle of mutants, good vs. evil. All 10 level 9 characters are active this week. Lots of carnage.
Beldin 06-16-04, 05:03 PM	I have forgotten time while wathing the em-games. Aemon is not finished updating but if you wish you may consider him active so that enilias or corintius do not have to sit out - and of course i can fight... ###:behold: please consider delayar as ready, too. I belived that with a * he was considered as ready and did not change his subject line.
Druid Roxors 06-16-04, 05:39 PM	Thanks alot Beldin!
Mercy 06-16-04, 05:44 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Mercy - Yep, a horse would land prone if it didn't beat the DC by 5 or more. Sometimes I wonder about the MM entries, especially when stuff like this comes up. -Jindl Well I guess jumping the rocks will be out then, since you'd need to bet a DC 25 with only a +12 or +16 to your jump check.
Druid Roxors 06-16-04, 06:13 PM	Oh, btw Beldin. Is that a "I accept your challenge" or "I R :turkey:" ;) Edit: If we do get paired, feel free to edit your character all you want. Just finish thursday so that I can make tactics friday. There shouldn't be a problem because the only one who is being wronged is me, and I don't mind.
^Rayne^ 06-17-04, 01:04 AM	I have decided to rebuild Vryk. I realized a number of losses ago that I made some pretty goofy mistakes on his build but I thought I might be able to make him work anyway. I don't mind the losing part but it is tough going week to week knowing that a good idea is being executed very poorly. So I am going to start over with Vryk 2.0 soon and will replace the current Vryk with him. The general blueprint will be similar but hopefully I will do a much better job along the way of building the plan. Anyway, Jindl, Cat, or Tellish please remove Vryk from the current roster as his sheet will soon have another kobold build in its place.
kedi 06-17-04, 02:43 AM	I have almost finished Chaotica, which has a different name know. I am going to rebuild Mete-Attila (no, not just to smite rayne's kobols again :P) I am goin to make him less barbarian, more fighter and 2 levels of ranger to fight with.... DOUBLE BASTARD SWORDS! :rofl: (but it's indeed my plan ;)) BTWso Jindl you can delete attila now. I will take out felis the jordain too, and contemporarily delete kedi and golratha. BTW, does multiattack apply for two wepon fighting too?
Druid Roxors 06-17-04, 04:16 AM	Yes, Multiattack helps your bite attack or whatever when using the fill attack maneuver
kedi 06-17-04, 07:39 AM	@Jindl and Magagumo: I have, at last, finished my Attila. I know, finished after the editing process, but pwease can he fight this week? I saw Cresting Sun rolled out for Mag having many PCs, so I thought Attila could fight with him. His stats are at the previous page of Mete-Attila. Pwease? :rolleyes:
Jindl 06-17-04, 08:36 AM	Sorry for the delay everyone. Pairings are now under way. @Beldin/Druid Roxors - If Aemon is paired against Corinthius (depends on the "Doesn't Fight Roll") then yes, Druid Roxors can give permission for Beldin to do a late edit. @kedi - By the same reasoning, if Lvl 2 is odd, the odd man out may agree to fight Attila, even though Attila was edited late. I'll remove all of the retiring characters soon. -Jindl
Magagumo 06-17-04, 08:51 AM	Those are old pairings, kedi, as Cresting Sun and Volomente are guarenteed to fight this week. However, if necessary, Overna (whose most likely not to fight) will happily fight Attila. Also, I just rem'd Jindl, since Zorander is frozen and Ban's fight doesn't coutn thsi week, onyl give me 1 fight- I leave for home today and won't be back till Sunday. As for tactics, expect them Friday morning/afternoon or Sturday sometime, please elt me know if this is an issue. I have to share computer time at home, and it's going to eb tricky getting on for 4 players tactics at once.
kedi 06-17-04, 10:09 AM	Originally posted by Magagumo Those are old pairings, kedi, as Cresting Sun and Volomente are guarenteed to fight this week. However, if necessary, Overna (whose most likely not to fight) will happily fight Attila. Also, I just rem'd Jindl, since Zorander is frozen and Ban's fight doesn't coutn thsi week, onyl give me 1 fight- I leave for home today and won't be back till Sunday. As for tactics, expect them Friday morning/afternoon or Sturday sometime, please elt me know if this is an issue. I have to share computer time at home, and it's going to eb tricky getting on for 4 players tactics at once. cool.
Pitlords 06-17-04, 11:05 AM	Pairings are done. 1. Tactics are due Friday. 2. Pitlords may begin running fights with tactics on Friday. 3. Pitlords may run fights with defautl tactics on Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. @kedi - Sorry, but Lvl 2 was even without Attila, so he'll have to wait til next week. @Dawnlord - Sorry, but all the Lvl 2 fights were psionic. Hopefully we can start you next week with a non-psionic fight. @Kazza - Your drow as edited late, and had to sit out this week. Remember, do not edit after 9 PM GMT on Wed. @Pittbull, ^Rayne^, Beldin, and myself - Get tactics to Ethendril ASAP. He wants to run the fights during the day on Friday. @Beldin - Druid Roxors has given you permission to edit Aemon all day today (Thursday). I suggest you use it. @All the other pitlords who didn't get as many fights as they wanted - Sorry. Sometimes there aren't enough to go around. I'll try to get you guys fights next week. Good luck! -Jindl
kedi 06-17-04, 01:13 PM	Well, it's okay that attila is off, but 2 extra credits would be just like a medicine to me, I was hoping that I could loan 1 credit for next week to bring on Chaotica. Now that I mod no fights this week, I hope that you can allow me to loan 3 credits so I can bring on chaotica for next week.
Ethendril 06-17-04, 01:27 PM	I don't see the tactics sent/received thread up yet, so I'll do this here: @cellardwellar: tactics sent for Dusk via email. @Battousai: tactics sent for Vaarkalikax. @Hatzinger: tactics sent for Death Dealer.
Pittbull 06-17-04, 02:58 PM	@Ethendril: Tactics for Angosh have been sent. I hope quick enough.:D
Jindl 06-17-04, 03:03 PM	Okay, the Fights of the Week (Tactics/Comments) thread is up now. Please put all your tactics sent/recieved comments there :D @Eth - Rhoar's tactics will be PM'd tonight. @kedi - I think 3 is the limit on borrowing credits, so you should be okay. -Jindl
Ethendril 06-17-04, 03:10 PM	@Eth - Rhoar's tactics will be PM'd tonight. Email, if you don't mind...
MadCowTemplate 06-17-04, 08:37 PM	AAAHH!!! Why are there so many KOBOLDS?! How many kobold characters are there, anyway? I'm convinced that a party from the Reverse Dungeon is staging a take-over of Gladius. Eek! There goes another one!
cellardweller 06-17-04, 09:15 PM	Dusk, Talon of Bahamut, Ethendril chllngs Toreilison Wevlun, Magagumo: cellardweller I am hopping on a plane to the UK this weekend so I am not going to be able to run this fight (The reason I didn't activate Carcass). Can please someone take this off my hands.
MotherBast 06-17-04, 09:26 PM	You know, I'm not doing a damn thing this weekend. I don't have any active characters, but I think I got my computer bugs worked out. Send the fight my way Celler.
Pitlords 06-17-04, 10:03 PM	I have made the requested change. @Ethendril+Magagumo - Please note the change in pitlord: Level 9 Dusk, Talon of Bahamut, Ethendril chllngs Toreilison Wevlun, Magagumo: MotherBast -Jindl
Battousai2005 06-17-04, 11:57 PM	Originally posted by MadCowTemplate AAAHH!!! Why are there so many KOBOLDS?! How many kobold characters are there, anyway? I'm convinced that a party from the Reverse Dungeon is staging a take-over of Gladius. Eek! There goes another one! You know Kobalds. Where there is one, there is a thousand! :angel: No offense to Rayne.
^Rayne^ 06-18-04, 01:43 AM	^ None taken... I will be repairing Vryk soon with a new version of him that should be much better and in addition to that I am working on putting the finishing touches on one of my other kobold creations. That leaves one other kobold design I'm still not sure about yet. I was pretty set on it a few weeks ago but I'm thinking now he might get changed a bit before he is ready to go. Anyway when all of them are up and running there will be 5 of the cute little lizards running around to mess with you guys! I used to play a lot of the other race types but for quite awhile now the only race that has held my interest are kobolds. The homebrew campaign I've been working on for some time now have a number or races I like better than the standard D&D ones and if I had my pick I might use some of them but things being what they are I will continue to build kobolds for Gladius. Once they learned there was work, food, and a good life for civilized kobolds in Gladius they all had to move in. ;) Can't deny a kobold the good life forever. Ha ha ha!
Dawnlord 06-18-04, 07:55 AM	@Jindl Why do I do such requests like "no psionics"? *SlapsForhead* I'm already familiar with psionics but never looked at the ECL 2 PCs. I consider this as the revenge of my own oafishness. :banghead: @ALL Something different: As you surely know, the SRD includes some material from the Complete-Divine with the new Domains, almost only Domain-Spells and some Feats. Did you ever thought about to include this to the term "Core" since it's in the SRD (like Psionics)? As it's not such a big "new-rules" thing like psionics I think this would just bring some color to play.
Jindl 06-18-04, 09:11 AM	@anyone with a few ranks of Knowledge (Psionics) - Does the limit on spending power points (max per round = manifester level) apply to racial abilities, like the Elan's resilience? If so, would it go off of the creature's HD? That is, can a Lvl 2 Elan spend 4 pp's in one action to negate 8 hps of damage? Or would he be capped at 2 pp's per round since he only has 2 HD's? -Jindl
Jindl 06-18-04, 09:20 AM	@Dawnlord - Are those additions from the Complete Divine (I don't own the book)? Some of the domains look exactly like the ones from the old splat book. If they are updated to 3.5, I think being a part of the SRD makes them Core. So I would consider bringing them in. -Jindl
Dawnlord 06-18-04, 10:31 AM	@Jindl Not all of the SRD-Divine is covered in the Complete Divine and vice versa. There are even differences in stuff which is covered in both. Your Psi-question: First I think you mean max power = manifester level because some powers can be manifested as a swift action and so it's possible to manifest 2 powers in one round which total powerpoint cost is more than your manifester level. But now for Resilience: As example an Elan Barbarian has no manifester level but can use his racial ability Resilience(Su) with having 2 pp. So he is able to spend power points and is not considered to "manifest a power".... ...so I would say that an Elan with manifester level 1 and a total of 6 power points could spend all 6 for Resilience at once.
Myrridin 06-18-04, 11:04 AM	You know, I really wish that Barrel_Master had his past fights for Paul Hector linked on his sheet. Time to dig out those fights to find his past tactics.
barrel_master 06-18-04, 12:45 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin You know, I really wish that Barrel_Master had his past fights for Paul Hector linked on his sheet. Time to dig out those fights to find his past tactics. Hummm... I thought I added them all a while ago... I suppose Paul was the last guy I had to fix up... I'll have to work on it.
MysticMonk2005 06-18-04, 01:16 PM	I forgot to put a scroll I bought under the scroll case, its listed under past expenditures. It's still useable in the fight, right?
freemoody 06-18-04, 01:44 PM	Originally posted by Dawnlord Your Psi-question: First I think you mean max power = manifester level because some powers can be manifested as a swift action and so it's possible to manifest 2 powers in one round which total powerpoint cost is more than your manifester level. But now for Resilience: As example an Elan Barbarian has no manifester level but can use his racial ability Resilience(Su) with having 2 pp. So he is able to spend power points and is not considered to "manifest a power".... ...so I would say that an Elan with manifester level 1 and a total of 6 power points could spend all 6 for Resilience at once. If that's true (which is the way I ran it in the Overna vs Atheran fight) then a level 5 Elan Psion can just ignore about 70 points of damage. That's just crazy.
Ethendril 06-18-04, 02:12 PM	Angosh vs. Rhoar posted.
Magagumo 06-18-04, 02:27 PM	That is correct- The Elan's ability is not Spell-like, its supernatural, and it is not inhibited in how many points it can spend. Of course, the Psion elan who spends all his/her points preventing damage is not going to win any fight ;). Remember that with 35 pp, the 5th psion can burn out in 7 manifested powers (if fully augmented), so its a give and take siuation- Resilience, Resistance, and sustenance makes them v. powerful, thus why they also suffer Cha penalties and have no other abilities- very focused, and very good. Also rem that they cannot augment saves and prevent damage, and can cast no other immediate powers (elan psychic warriors, who have several immediate powers, have to make very tough decisions ;)) In teh end, this is why you drain an opponent's psi-points ;) They also can't psionically focus (I seem to recall) if they are out of pp. Please check that, I am not entirely sure myself.
Dawnlord 06-18-04, 02:35 PM	Originally posted by freemoody If that's true (which is the way I ran it in the Overna vs Atheran fight) then a level 5 Elan Psion can just ignore about 70 points of damage. That's just crazy. Mmmh... but what is a Psion who spent all power points for ignoring damage and not for buffing himself and killing the enemy? I would call such one dead meat. It's like a redistribution of power. (Similar to the spontaneuoueuous (damn) cure of Clerics)
Magagumo 06-18-04, 02:48 PM	Overna Mimesis is becoming Borealis with some moderate reworkings, I'll finish up purchases Sunday or so.
Druid Roxors 06-18-04, 04:06 PM	@ Beldin: I hope you are done with your edits already, I do need some time to design my tactics. I will start in 2 hours, that would be 5pm central. Please be done by then, Thanks.
KerlanRayne 06-18-04, 04:35 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Also rem that they cannot augment saves and prevent damage, and can cast no other immediate powers (elan psychic warriors, who have several immediate powers, have to make very tough decisions ;)) Plus I think they can only do it once a round, so they should only be able to prevent 1 hit from rapit shot and not both for instance. KerlanRayne
Sindorin 06-18-04, 04:58 PM	all this psionic talk makes me want to make one too...
Ethendril 06-18-04, 05:39 PM	Aiki Auk vs. Delayar posted.
Caterane 06-18-04, 08:51 PM	Prof.Dre'Dandrahl challenges Rhoar to end this ridiculous unnatural stream of luck. Bah! Unscathed winner. I fully expect you to decline this challenge for whatever reason you might come up with!
Jindl 06-18-04, 10:44 PM	Rhoar will be inactive next week, while I am on vacation. I'll consider any challenges when I get back. -Jindl
Caterane 06-19-04, 08:03 AM	I will wait
Hatzinger 06-19-04, 08:24 AM	@ Captain Mutilate: Saturday, 14.30 pm here. Starting the fight now with your default tactics.
Myrridin 06-19-04, 01:07 PM	The fight is up. Jo'Li vs Arkin Jozil (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3741242#post3741242)
Druid Roxors 06-19-04, 01:49 PM	Do you hate Rhoar all that much?
Hatzinger 06-19-04, 02:34 PM	The fight has been posted. Let me know if you find any errors. @ Druid Roxors: No, but i hate his luck. He should have been killed several times now and i wouldn´t have bet a cent on him in these fights. But alas, the gods smile on Jindl, i guess.
Ethendril 06-19-04, 03:41 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Do you hate Rhoar all that much? Naw, we're just jealous...
Druid Roxors 06-19-04, 09:20 PM	@ Mercy: I just recieved word from my E-mail provider that it couldnt deliver my tactics to you. I hope you have not started the fight yet. Hi. This is the qmail-send program at wmailmta05of.seamail.go.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <sfarmer4@kc.rr.com>: Sorry, I couldn't find any host named kc.rr.com. (#5.1.2) --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <rodo6@go.com> Received: (qmail 530 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2004 08:30:39 -0000 Received: from jtp05.seamail.go.com (HELO gomailjtp05) (10.192.72.224) by wmailmta05o.seamail.go.com with SMTP; 19 Jun 2004 08:30:39 -0000 Message-ID: <7328762.1087633839309.JavaMail.rodo6@gom ailjtp05> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 01:30:39 -0700 (PDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rodolfo_Mart=EDnez?= <rodo6@go.com> To: sfarmer4@kc.rr.com Subject: Tactics for Corinthus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.1 Wierd response, but then again... Its Disney ;) Ill send it to you through PM Right away.
LLMadCow 06-21-04, 02:30 PM	Ban'zanifal vs Evram the Soulless ...has been posted.
MadCowTemplate 06-21-04, 03:12 PM	Mind over Miner has been posted....
Battousai2005 06-21-04, 04:06 PM	Matei vs Lillith can be found here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=741) Really a good fight, though a horrid match on one half. Oh well...
kattattack22 06-22-04, 12:48 AM	@Mag & Amalcon - Sorry story for your fight isn't up yet. I played Never Winter Nights instead. Hopefully, I will be in a more creative than mindless mood tomorrow.
Pittbull 06-22-04, 11:03 AM	@Jindl or Cat: Haven't seen in the forum the last two days, nor the the roster is kept, is there a pairing this week? Do you need help? During the week I will be able to help you, but on weekend I'm mostly not available. If you like to, I'll volunteer in rosterkeeping. Greetings
Ethendril 06-22-04, 11:29 AM	Originally posted by Pittbull @Jindl or Cat: Haven't seen in the forum the last two days, nor the the roster is kept, is there a pairing this week? Do you need help? During the week I will be able to help you, but on weekend I'm mostly not available. If you like to, I'll volunteer in rosterkeeping. Greetings Tellish just posted in another thread that Jindl is on vacation and Cat has limited access to the internet right now. This week, Tellish is going to do pairings, and he said it will be Wednesday.
Pittbull 06-22-04, 12:08 PM	Thanks!
Pitlords 06-22-04, 02:57 PM	Hey, finally get to see my color on the posts. hehe. Ok, i've done some roster updating. Please let me know if you see any errors by either PM-T_o_K or PM-Pitlords. Don't post it, i may not see it as i'll be doing all the updates for the pairings over the next little while. -ToK
Druid Roxors 06-22-04, 03:02 PM	I am sorry, The fight "Lorelei Vs Dart" will have a slight delay. My computer crashed while I was halfway throught the fight. Needless to say, I wasn't working on "Word". Ill have to restart the fight, it will be up in a few hours.
MotherBast 06-22-04, 04:16 PM	I changed the Dusk vs. Tori fight. The last few rounds are now in story form. Sorry I didn't have to story finished when I posted last night, my GF called from Italy, and she wouldn't have liked very much to hear me say "I'll have to put you on hold while I finish up a D&D story." She hates the game.
Magagumo 06-22-04, 04:19 PM	Its ok, MB, mine plays the game but hates these boards. I suppose I kinda know the feeling ;)
Ethendril 06-22-04, 04:50 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast I changed the Dusk vs. Tori fight. The last few rounds are now in story form. Sorry I didn't have to story finished when I posted last night, my GF called from Italy, and she wouldn't have liked very much to hear me say "I'll have to put you on hold while I finish up a D&D story." She hates the game. Hey MB: Thanks for the excellent story. I think this will be a good start to the Committee vs. Celestial Forces battles that will surely be ahead once level 13 opens for business. Great read. As for the GF, just make sure she understands the need for games. I had one gaming friend get married and NEVER played again. Not even one time, in over two years. I'm married, but my wife let's me play on occasion (though she doesn't play herself).
MotherBast 06-22-04, 05:19 PM	Well, her sister and her sister's husband both play, and she stays with them a lot, so she isen't like, opposed to the game or anything. She has never tried to tell me I couldn't play. She would have just been upset if I had ignored her long distance call to do so....
Magagumo 06-22-04, 05:48 PM	As I'm sure anyone would be :D
Caterane 06-22-04, 08:11 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast ...my GF called from Italy, and she wouldn't have liked very much to hear me say "I'll have to put you on hold while I finish up a D&D story." She hates the game. Hey Motherbast, why not take off some weeks and hang around with your girlfriend instead :D :D :D Sorry, I was kidding I meant "months" :rofl: @Pitbull and everyone who doesn't already know: I don't have a permanent internet access right now but I'll get one soon (I hope this week). Until then, obey to almighty Tellish!
kattattack22 06-23-04, 12:46 AM	Story posted for Veloment vs. Jensun check out part 3 of When Worlds Collide - Freedom (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3749751#post3749751).
Druid Roxors 06-23-04, 04:47 AM	My computer was acting very strange, I couldnt login for even 2 minutes straight. I guess it was an evil virus or something. Im going to format it, until then, my computer access is Almost 0. This I write on my dad's office. Note that On the fight Lillith Vs Dart, the latter was the Victor. Ill get to all details tomorrow. I am very sorry, you two
MotherBast 06-23-04, 07:03 AM	Actually Cat, I will be moving to Italy permanatly in about 5 months when she starts school there. I don't know yet how that will affect my involment on the boards here though....
Tellish_of_Ket 06-23-04, 08:56 AM	due to the lack of response from MCT and the serious amount of errors (believe me i experienced it last week) the following fight will be re-posted and assigned a different mod. Cyric Tor, KerlanRayne vs Nylg "The Miner", ^Rayne^: MadCowTemplate -ToK
Ethendril 06-23-04, 11:28 AM	Tellish: Couple of corrections on the gladiators that are set to "ready". Rhoar's sheet actually says NOT READY for June 23, and I think Jindl is gone all week. Sven Enno's sheet says ready for June 16, not June 23 (Vaarkalikax will set to ready if needed to even out this level if Sven Enno is not fighting). Anyway, thanks for handling pairings this week. -Ethendril
Tellish_of_Ket 06-23-04, 12:26 PM	Doh, i forgot about Rhoar. I saw it the first time, but missed it and/or completely forgot about it the second time. Mike said to mark Svenn as active and he has no changes to make. So even if he doesn't put "Active June 23/2004" or something like that, i still know he wants to fight this week. -ToK
MysticMonk2005 06-23-04, 12:38 PM	I would like 2 fights this week.
MysticMonk2005 06-23-04, 12:41 PM	I would like 2 fights this week. Question, What is happening with sarah vs ernie? and if it is being run this week, does it count against my # of gladiators?
Ethendril 06-23-04, 01:29 PM	@All Almost every level is odd...please ready your characters so we can even out some levels.
KerlanRayne 06-23-04, 02:05 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket due to the lack of response from MCT and the serious amount of errors (believe me i experienced it last week) the following fight will be re-posted and assigned a different mod. Serious errors? AllI know about is that AC is one round instead of one action, what else is there? As far as I know we have never reposted a fight that was already finished. My last fight modded by Kedi had ALOT more errors and it still stands. So I don't think it should be redone at all. KerlanRayne
Tellish_of_Ket 06-23-04, 02:28 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 I would like 2 fights this week. Question, What is happening with sarah vs ernie? and if it is being run this week, does it count against my # of gladiators? No it will not count against your # of gladiators. You shouldn't be penalized for someone elses tardiness. Orignally posted by KerlanRayne Serious errors? AllI know about is that AC is one round instead of one action, what else is there? As far as I know we have never reposted a fight that was already finished. My last fight modded by Kedi had ALOT more errors and it still stands. So I don't think it should be redone at all. KerlanRayne Apparently it was in the problem thread and went unresolved. I didn't read the thread or the fight, i was just given the message. So please don't shoot the messenger. :) I'll try to sort through it and see what i can find. -ToK
SnarkHunter 06-23-04, 02:33 PM	@Kerlan, found an error on your sheet, check violations thread.
Hatzinger 06-23-04, 04:01 PM	Check out the map thread. :D [hours later... the audience is already sleeping...] Oh, and now the map is actually displayed. Sorry, i was afk.
KerlanRayne 06-23-04, 04:06 PM	@ToK: Cyric's fight should not be held over for another week because we have a rule that if the original Pitlord doesn't change the errors in a fight then no matter what, the results will stand. This has happened MANY times since the beginning and I don't think this should suddenly change now. I have updated Cyric to 4th Level. I wanted to make sure I meet the deadline of you changed your mind. If you still want to have it rerun, the new mod can use the copy of the sheet in the last fight, which is linked in Cyric's character sheet. The only change is that the feat Overchannel should be switched for Expanded Knowledge: Compression. I don't mean to sound harsh, it just seems like you are changing a rule that's been there from almost the beginning. KerlanRayne
Druid Roxors 06-23-04, 04:07 PM	Barrelmaster, Will you ready Octavian? It seems im alone in the 11th slot :(
^Rayne^ 06-23-04, 04:12 PM	KerlanRayne Serious errors? AllI know about is that AC is one round instead of one action, what else is there? As far as I know we have never reposted a fight that was already finished. My last fight modded by Kedi had ALOT more errors and it still stands. So I don't think it should be redone at all. KerlanRayne That is a very serious error. Why? Because my PC can see your PC's visual display for a whole round and pound you into the arena floor interrupting your power. Plus this wasn't done just once but twice in a row. Your PC had a good chance of having the power interrupted and your pansy but dead on the ground. That is the HUGE problem with the match. I tried to bring this to MadCow's attention but he has been MIA ever since the fight leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth. You would ask for the same fairness I am asking for if it were your PC killed by horrible mistakes. All I asked MadCow for was to rerun the messed up rounds which he never once responded to (both PM's and the boards).
Ethendril 06-23-04, 04:17 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Barrelmaster, Will you ready Octavian? It seems im alone in the 11th slot :( Druid: It looks like all my other gladiators have no one to fight, so I'd love to activate Kiri. [I can edit her sheet to say she's ready, or I'll just leave it and you can assume she's ready]. -Ethendril
KerlanRayne 06-23-04, 04:23 PM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ That is a very serious error. Why? Because my PC can see your PC's visual display for a whole round and pound you into the arena floor interrupting your power. Plus this wasn't done just once but twice in a row. Your PC had a good chance of having the power interrupted and your pansy but dead on the ground. That is the HUGE problem with the match. I tried to bring this to MadCow's attention but he has been MIA ever since the fight leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth. You would ask for the same fairness I am asking for if it were your PC killed by horrible mistakes. All I asked MadCow for was to rerun the messed up rounds which he never once responded to (both PM's and the boards). Like I said, my fight last week that Kedi modded was riddled with errors, and if you check last week's Fights of the Week thread you will see that I pointed out the errors but said if he left it that way it would be fine. If MadCow had rerun the fight, I wouldn't have a problem. I just don't think it should be carried over another week by ToK. We have always played that the Original mod has final say. Even if he hasn't responded, he did declare a winner and ToK can't over rule that. KerlanRayne
Magagumo 06-23-04, 04:36 PM	*coughs* On a lighter note, I wanted to thank MB and kat for their stories, very entertaining, even if my chars lost ;) I believe I have readied everyone I have available (except Borealis, because I need to re-think my straetgy with him, and don't really need 5 active chars). I'll take 2 fights this week, btw, even if 4 chars somehow all manage to fight...
^Rayne^ 06-23-04, 05:34 PM	KerlanRayne, I don't agree with your call on this. It is one thing for the Pitlord to look over a fight and make a decision it is another to go MIA as soon as he posts a fight with huge mistakes and not address them at all. His mistake most definitely was wrong and caused my PC to lose unfairly. He didn't take any time to address the issue and is not doing his full duty as a Pitlord. I've let many fights go but this one I feel I did not lose as it is currently run. I don't accept the outcome as it is and till the fight is run fairly I won't be putting a loss on Nylg's sheet for that fight. I'm sorry if I seem to be a jerk about this but I feel wronged by the Pitlord of this fight for not taking the time to look over the issues he messed up on. You may not agree but you are not seeing your PC losing to mine unfairly so of course you won't see my point of view on this. I would prefer the fight handed to another pitlord to have it run fairly seeing as MadCow hasn't responded at all. I would also like to point out how the huge error multiplies because it was run improperly. If your PC takes the full round to manifest the astral construct even if my PC fails to interrupt your PC before your next action Nylg wouldn't have been hit by the constructs next attack... Why you ask? Well the construct only made its attack roll by +1 and that was because it was given a charge action. Well since my PC is beside yours now the construct isn't in a position to charge so no +2 to attack which means Nylg takes no damage which also means no free trip attack. That is HUGE! The construct can't flank with your PC because your PC is tiny and doesn't threated 5' away so no +2 that way either. My PC is faster than yours which means you couldn't get away and my PC will begins multiple strikes against your PC possibly breaking your concentration on the next manifested astral construct. On top of that your first construct has already wasted one round of its three round existance. To top that off it is likely either one or both of the attempts to manifest one has now failed and your PC has wasted 6 power points. Your PC's very survival depends on these power points and you've already used up some for your defenses. Things are looking bleak for your PC and better all the time for mine. I have a reason for challenging this verdict as unfair. My PC had this match stolen from him. You're hiding behind excuses when you say the match was final the way it was. As far as I'm concerned MadCow neglected his duties as pitlord and the fight is incomplete. I don't believe the verdict is just or fair and I will challenge this ruling till something is done about the matter. -Rayne
Battousai2005 06-23-04, 06:08 PM	Ok, this week was busy for me. I'm going to request max fights, but not posting any characters active as I have not had time to edit my characters.
Ethendril 06-23-04, 06:13 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Ok, this week was busy for me. I'm going to request max fights, but not posting any characters active as I have not had time to edit my characters. Pairings are already done, and there were not a lot of fights to go around. Unless more fights are created, I think you're out of luck.:(
freemoody 06-23-04, 06:29 PM	@ Hatzinger: Your new standard map is AWSOME! :bow: Thanks for sharing it with us. ---------------- Lillith has to fight Paul!!!! :banghead: She was hoping to win 6 in a row. I think I need to re-read the old Jindl vs Skymoon fight.
Battousai2005 06-23-04, 06:36 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Pairings are already done, and there were not a lot of fights to go around. Unless more fights are created, I think you're out of luck.:( Really? Man, too late. Well, a week off would do me some good. Now I can annoy the Eldar mods even more!!! @Cat/Jindl/TOK: :angel:
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 06-23-04, 06:47 PM	Hmmm, it seesm that I am also out for luck. Jindl, could you rmeove me from active pitlord list please. I cannot pitlord after this week. Even my char does not have luck. He is now whitout a match a second week a row..........(I think I edited him in time, or did I?)
Beldin 06-23-04, 06:49 PM	in the past every fight was counted as the pitlord run it, if the pitlord did not correct its errors, then the result does not change. Perhaps not very nice from the pitlord; but its results are finally then even if they are unfair. Imo cyric lost last week a fight done even worse...
Ethendril 06-23-04, 06:49 PM	[i] Even my char does not have luck. He is now whitout a match a second week a row..........(I think I edited him in time, or did I?) [/B] It looks like he rolled out since his level had an odd number of gladiators. If it was the second week in a row, he should have had a did not fight credit, though.
Arstimis 06-23-04, 06:55 PM	Actually, i just realized i would be leaving Sat for this weekend, and next week, so Olinad should sit out this and next. If its ok with the Mod's Kazz can just take my spot in the fight
Tellish_of_Ket 06-23-04, 08:15 PM	@Arti: request accepted. I've put Kaz in your place to fight. @Mag: you have your two fights to run. @Battoussai: I gave you a fight as well. I realized i left out the Sarah fight and put it up. As for the Cyric/Nylg fight. I suffered the same thing the week before from MCT. A horribly, hastily run fight in which i lost a chance at the unscathed title. I feel for your loss, and don't worry. He's not getting any new fights. @Kerlan: no rules are being changed so pipe it with the harsh critisism. ;) -ToK
MysticMonk2005 06-23-04, 08:22 PM	I just called Battosai, and he is willing to activate one of his lvl 3 PC's to fight teesh if there are any willing Pitlords out there?
Battousai2005 06-23-04, 08:48 PM	I have no objections to activating Atheran. I want to test this build as I'm actually thinking of using it. Darn... I chose favored enemy elf... @TOK: Would love the fight. Thanks.
kattattack22 06-23-04, 09:03 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo *coughs* On a lighter note, I wanted to thank MB and kat for their stories, very entertaining, even if my chars lost ;) I believe I have readied everyone I have available (except Borealis, because I need to re-think my straetgy with him, and don't really need 5 active chars). I'll take 2 fights this week, btw, even if 4 chars somehow all manage to fight... Yay! Someone actually read the story. I was worried that it wouldn't be read since I put it off for so long.
MysticMonk2005 06-23-04, 10:39 PM	hey kat, you aiming to steal Cat's title? oh and Captain Mutilate sent "Drahk to be pwnd " his tactics to me. I didn't read them. and it is deleted.
Tellish_of_Ket 06-23-04, 11:14 PM	Atheran Stormbringer, Battousai2005 vs Teesh Drocer, MysticMonk2005 : Ethendril Has been added. Please take note those involved. I Noticed that Ethendril wasn't modding a fight so i hope you don't mind if i gave you one? -ToK
kattattack22 06-24-04, 12:33 AM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 hey kat, you aiming to steal Cat's title? oh and Captain Mutilate sent "Drahk to be pwnd " his tactics to me. I didn't read them. and it is deleted. lol, I am nowhere near that good. I am just having fun and thought it would be neat to do a multipart story. After this week I may actually write a story that actually takes place in the arena. As for the tactics well, that is his oops not mine. I am not worried about it.
freemoody 06-24-04, 01:52 AM	Originally posted by Arstimis Actually, i just realized i would be leaving Sat for this weekend, and next week, so Olinad should sit out this and next. If its ok with the Mod's Kazz can just take my spot in the fight You're still Okay to run the Paul Hector vs Lillith fight right, Arstimis?
^Rayne^ 06-24-04, 01:54 AM	freemoody are you still going to be okay pitlording this weekend? I already sent Nylg's tactics to you but if I need to send them to a different Pitlord please let me know. Thanks, Rayne
Arstimis 06-24-04, 01:59 AM	Originally posted by freemoody You're still Okay to run the Paul Hector vs Lillith fight right, Arstimis? Huh, im running a fight....no, actually I cant..but since Battousai wanted max fights im sure he will take it. TOK, please take me off the active pitlord list...i thought i asked this last week, but i guess no one saw
Ethendril 06-24-04, 11:40 AM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Has been added. Please take note those involved. I Noticed that Ethendril wasn't modding a fight so i hope you don't mind if i gave you one? -ToK Tellish: I think you missed my PM that I couldn't run a fight this week. EDIT: However, this is a low-level fight and looks fun...If the gladiators could get me their tactics ASAP, I could run it before the weekend.
Myrridin 06-24-04, 03:29 PM	Well, I'd just like to say that I don't think that Archangel Ixidor qualifies for his Lawful Good alignment anymore. Beheading his hydra for a temporary advantage, every time he fights? That sounds a lot like cruel behavior to a neutral animal. I know that we don't really enforce alignment in the arena, but come on, he's got Paladin levels, and is intentionally and knowingly inflicting pain, torture, on a creature. Not very Lawful Good...
Ethendril 06-24-04, 03:42 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Well, I'd just like to say that I don't think that Archangel Ixidor qualifies for his Lawful Good alignment anymore. Beheading his hydra for a temporary advantage, every time he fights? That sounds a lot like cruel behavior to a neutral animal. I know that we don't really enforce alignment in the arena, but come on, he's got Paladin levels, and is intentionally and knowingly inflicting pain, torture, on a creature. Not very Lawful Good... I don't think that's a valid buff, personally. Though the handle animal skill doesn't specifically say the animal has to like you, there's also nothing there that says it will not defend itself if attacked. An animal is not going to stand around whistling while you injure it repeatedly. I think the hydra would leave the handler the first time a head was cut off, and I would not allow this as a pre-buff in a fight I ran. That Cat...he's a creative guy (along with LL).;)
Druid Roxors 06-24-04, 03:43 PM	@ Ethendril: Thanks alot for activating Kiri. As in my last fight, Go on and edit her if you need so. I would just like to have some time to make my tactics, so please finish editing before friday. Please note several mistakes in Corinthus: I was a bit careless on his leveling, these changes escaped me: - +1 to BAB - Wildshape (Tiny) - +1 level 1 spell - +1 to all skills which are maxed + ride I hope you don't mind eh?
Ethendril 06-24-04, 03:45 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ Ethendril: Thanks alot for activating Kiri. As in my last fight, Go on and edit her if you need so. I would just like to have some time to make my tactics, so please finish editing before friday. Please note several mistakes in Corinthus: I was a bit careless on his leveling, these changes escaped me: - +1 to BAB - Wildshape (Tiny) - +1 level 1 spell - +1 to all skills which are maxed + ride I hope you don't mind eh? Yeah, I don't mind...just email the changes with your tactics to Cat. I won't edit my sheet, and have already sent my tactics... Good luck. This should be an interesting fight.
Magagumo 06-24-04, 06:19 PM	As I'm running that fight, I admit I've been working to address the tactic in story (a hardliner type of angel is Ixidor, an angel of the War, rather than Piety, Purity, or Charity. In such a war against evil, one must utilize all tools available... ) Anyways, I would say that the handler must make a DC 25 check (an extremely difficult trick, akin to pushing it to allow itself to have a head temporarily removed). This DC would increase if the animal were wounded, but fast healing seals the wounds fast enough. The handler must deal damage equal to the neck's hp (10 in this case to sever it. You'll notice that Ixidor deals 2d6+8 dmg per swing. In this situation, I will be making a Handle Animal roll- DC 25 vs. Ixidor's +18 mod. If he succeeds, the hydra permits him to sever a head. He may continue making rolls until he has made 8 (one for each head). In this case, a failed roll idnicates that that head balks at the trick, and for a balance sake, will not allow itself to be severed for the fight. I will complete these rolls and post them prior to initatitve, As Ixidor has good mods, I expect to see a few severed heads, and I doubt Cat's strategy will be based on an exact number of heads ;). In the future, we may wish to examine a more established method, but I believe this minor house-rule will sevrev for the moment.
freemoody 06-24-04, 11:32 PM	Since it's a rule in the Arena to link all your past fights on your character sheet, shouldn't we enforce it.
LLMadCow 06-25-04, 12:34 AM	Originally posted by freemoody Since it's a rule in the Arena to link all your past fights on your character sheet, shouldn't we enforce it. I agree it should be enforced, but only to a certain extent. I have to say that I have been linking all of my RECENT fights, since we came COre COliseum, but none of my older fights are listed. I would've listed my old fights, but when we transferred over, I did not have a chance to copy the source info with all the links and vB code. So, there you have it.
Tellish_of_Ket 06-25-04, 12:57 AM	There are MANY gladiators who do not have all their fights linked. I don't see this as a problem just yet, i'm sure people are working on it. Let's concentrate on having fun first. -ToK
Ethendril 06-25-04, 02:13 PM	Atheran vs. Teesh posted.
Magagumo 06-25-04, 05:21 PM	I'm not positive exactly where this is to be posted, but unless someone has an issue, Ban'zanifal is dropping his unused Speed of Thought feat (always was mounted) and is picking up Power Attack instead. I meant to petition this prior to the recent fight, but it slipped my mind.
kattattack22 06-25-04, 11:21 PM	@Mysticmonk and Captain Mutilate - I will be at a gaming convention for most of Saturday and my internet may or not be working till Monday. I wanted to get your fight run and posted by Sunday, but its looking like Monday is when I will get to post it. Decided better give you guys a heads up on that.
Magagumo 06-26-04, 10:32 AM	Angosh v. Arkin is posted. Close fight, to the surprise, I'm sure, of at least one combatant.
Caterane 06-26-04, 12:28 PM	Hey all I just saw that I am supposed to run a fight. This is not possible. I am currently sitting in an internet cafe (the next 2 hours) and after that I go on camp north of NY. I was listed as having <zero> (not <even>) fights so I don't know why I have been assigned a fight. If you want to see that fight done assign it to someone else. I definately can't run it. As for Ixidor's buff: I mean there are paladins running around killing for money so I think they should lose their paladin status after 1 fight :rolleyes: . This is not a roleplaying board. Here, only statistics count. When I have more time we can discuss a method for the hydra prebuff. Beginning to write tactics now...
Caterane 06-26-04, 12:36 PM	Since the creation of the Maps thread only Rayne posted a new map, and Hatze recently. I was thinking about a reward for posting a map, motly to encourage others to create maps too. What about 5 credits per approved map? And to reward the time and effort, 1 credit per map not approved. What do you say?
Magagumo 06-26-04, 12:58 PM	I approve the credit for map exchange :). As for the hydra, I figure it won't be too hard to get some heads, and more levels (and more points) will only increase odds of success.
Druid Roxors 06-26-04, 03:17 PM	I'd take Caterane's Fight. Too bad my character is involved in it.. Hehe. Should this fight be relocated, please, could I get a high level pitlord? These tactics and hiding checks etc are going to be a bit complicated... Edit: Perhaps Magagumo or Snarkhunter can run the fight and I take over his level 10 fight?
Magagumo 06-26-04, 04:15 PM	hmm, seems Snark isn't about, and I did have that extra char fighting... If someone can get the tactics to me, I suppose I can take the one fight.
Druid Roxors 06-26-04, 05:11 PM	So you don't want me to take over that fight for you? I got no fight this week. In any case, Ill send you the tactics. Lets hope my oponent read this. Cat, please forward the tactics to Magagumo.
Magagumo 06-26-04, 06:01 PM	Sorry Druid, I didn't understand your meaning. Actually, I just finished Ixidor v. Zephin, and just want to add a nice opening story to it. If you ever need a credit.. I can loan one to ya :-P
Druid Roxors 06-26-04, 08:44 PM	Hehe, no need. Its fine, just didn't want you to have that many fights on your hands :)
Ethendril 06-27-04, 12:58 AM	Originally posted by Magagumo hmm, seems Snark isn't about, and I did have that extra char fighting... If someone can get the tactics to me, I suppose I can take the one fight. Mag: I'm away from the computer I wrote Kiri's tactics on, so I've asked Cat to forward those tactics to you. Hopefully he still has them. Thanks for taking the fight. -Ethendril
^Rayne^ 06-27-04, 01:43 AM	Since the creation of the Maps thread only Rayne posted a new map, and Hatze recently. I was thinking about a reward for posting a map, motly to encourage others to create maps too. What about 5 credits per approved map? And to reward the time and effort, 1 credit per map not approved. What do you say? I would say, how about 10 credits please. ;) JK... I've actually been working on another I am calling Dwarven Compound at present but that name is subject to change. I'm sorry I haven't done more but RL has been busy and I've had limited time to write tactics, complain about losses ;) , pitlord fights, and still post for my characters over at the Real Adventures: Real Roleplay section of the board. I'll try to get that map up soon. I still also have a couple PC's I wanted to add to the CoCo Gladiators list that I haven't completed yet. So much to do so little time. Well good to see you around Caterane.
Druid Roxors 06-27-04, 05:36 AM	Originally posted by Ethendril Mag: I'm away from the computer I wrote Kiri's tactics on, so I've asked Cat to forward those tactics to you. Hopefully he still has them. Thanks for taking the fight. -Ethendril Cat has no Internet Access outside Internet Cafes. You should probably redo your tactics, I doubt cat will be able to login soon...
Magagumo 06-27-04, 10:16 AM	I'd like to run the fight today, when boredom will counterbalance the raw hatred from a million Hide and Move Silently checks (J/k :D). So yea, just get them to me in the next 4 hrs or so, and that would be marvelous. Zephin and Ixidor are long done, just working the momentum to write up the story. Edit: Story written, fight posted.
Caterane 06-27-04, 08:06 PM	I found another internet terminal. Roster updated, Tactics for Kiri and Corinthus forwarded to Mag who got an additional credit, and my personal thanks for taking over. I also rewarded Rayne with 10 credits for posting 2 maps. Happy birthday (to whatever monster you might to come up with). LLMadCow lost 12 credits because he sucks :D. Kidding. You'll soon see why. @Mag: another thanks for the nice story though this is not necessarily the way I imagine an archangel. As for eyes and mouth... you might want to take another look at the picture. Actually that's an important part but that's another story, waiting on my harddisc to be revealed. Oh! And finally the luck was on my side! Yipie!!
Magagumo 06-27-04, 08:24 PM	Yea, wrote the story w/o investigating character... freelance writing can be fun, like your own version fo Bruno :D. As for the angel of War... just another perspective on things, something I picked up from a game system known as In Nomine.
Caterane 06-27-04, 09:07 PM	Ah, Bruno the Entertainer vs Laucien the most ugly. Mag... we're even now (unless you want to read Part 2 when the 13ths continue :devil: )
kattattack22 06-27-04, 10:21 PM	Drahk Longfellow vs. Tre'mire Steelfist (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3813335#post3813335) is posted. The story concludes "When Worlds Collide". Next week, look foward to an arena centered story.
Magagumo 06-27-04, 11:07 PM	I'm afraid I do not approve of Clio skipping 4 levels of fights through credit expenditure! This essentially stating that anyone can gain free levels (and equipment) if they just spend creds. I don't have an issue with her gaining half-celestial. Personally, I believe one should still have to fight your way up, gain a level in the progression class, and spend 3 creds each level in order to acquire a template which cannot normally be gained in such a manner. Frankly, I think this is abuse of the credit system, as it avoids having to work a half-celestial from 5th ECL (as Cat did with Ixidor), and instead gains the benefits of an already established character, making it easier to win a few fights, then upgrade, rather than having to suffer through those more difficult fights. I don't recall there being tremendous support for freely skipping tiers, so I'm not sure why this just happened.... Edit: Here's a progression in 4 levels 1st: Con +2, Wis +2, Darkvision 60', Outsider type, Daylight 1/day, Spell-like Abilities 2nd: Str +2, Dex +2, Disease Immunity, +2 racial v. poison, Resistances (acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5), Spell Resistance (equal to character level), Spell-like Abilities 3rd: Str +2, Wis +2, Cha +2, DR, Smite Evil, Daylight 3/day, Spell-like Abilities 4th: Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2, Spell-like Abilities, SR (10+character level), Wings, Resistances (acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10), Spell-like Abilities, Daylight: at will Spell-like Abilities Half-Celestial Level (1-4)/ Min Character level 1st: 1st- 3/day Protection from Evil 7th- 1/day Holy Smite, Remove Disease 13th 1/day Hallow 2nd: 3rd- 1/day Aid, Detect Evil 6th- 1/day Cure Serious Wounds, Neutralize Poison 13th- 3/day Holy Aura 3rd: 9th- 1/day Dispel Evil 15th- 1/day Mass Charm Monster 17th- 1/day Summon Monster IX (celestials only) 4th: 11th- Holy Word 19th- Resurrection
SnarkHunter 06-27-04, 11:52 PM	Reviewing tactics for Prof vs. Hein fight. Not to give anything away but I need to have an issue resolved before I run it Monday night. I direct anyone with an intrest in the future of inivisble spellcasters to This here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=259833) thread and say-by all means, post your views. I'll get back to the fight in some 18 hours then!
Pittbull 06-28-04, 05:37 AM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter I direct anyone with an intrest in the future of inivisble spellcasters to This here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=259833) thread and say-by all means, post your views. I got this topic a few weeks ago and posted it on the magic thread. The answer was: Re: Re: Re: Nondetection quote:Originally posted by Pittbull I wanted to ask, if nondetection works against see invisible? Gotcha. Here's an old reply from the Sage about that... quote:In addition, there have been questions raised concerning how Mind Blank functions in conjunction with other spells. For example, lets say a wizard casts Mind Blank and Improved Invisibility on himself. Does the invisibility now count as part of the caster, or is it considered a separate entity in regards to spells like See Invisibility? Mind blank is not effective against see invisibility (non detection is). Mind blank protects against devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. And against scrying, which is magical information gathering conducted remotely. See invisibility is not scrying. In other words, is the Mind Blanked/Invisible wizard protected from See Invisibility? Detect Magic? True Seeing? No in all three cases. ...incedentally, when I asked customer service a similar question, they initially rule the opposite, then changed their minds and said such a ruling could go either way. Perhaps, it helps you. :D :D :D :D :D :D
^Rayne^ 06-28-04, 09:35 AM	Caterane, thanks very much for the credits/gift... It really wasn't expected. As it turns out I did have a very specific PC in mind that needed quite a few credits to build. Now it looks like my 5th PC will indeed be a pseudodragon after all! Woot woot, you've just made my day. I kept thinking it was going to take me weeks and weeks of modding to get there but it looks like I will get my chance sooner than I thought. Thanks again and I'll let you know the second I've got my next map finished by getting it up on the map idea thread. -Rayne
Ethendril 06-28-04, 12:19 PM	Nymatha vs. Veloment posted.
Jindl 06-28-04, 12:48 PM	@Mag + LLMadCow - Clio's transformation has not been approved (though it seems Cat is in favor of it). We'll likely need to have an elder vote on whether 1. acquired templates can be added after character generation through the use of credits, and 2. whether inherited templates can be added in the same way. Personally, I'm in favor of 1 and against 2. I do not like the savage progressions that Mag favors (mainly because they are not Core, being posted on the WoTC website, and they are not playtested by the designers, which means they can be easily broken.) So, though LL can RP all he wants, the transformation is not approved until the Elder vote occurs. -Jindl
MysticMonk2005 06-28-04, 01:28 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 Drahk Longfellow vs. Tre'mire Steelfist (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3813335#post3813335) is posted. The story concludes "When Worlds Collide". Next week, look foward to an arena centered story. Awsome story Kat. (The entire Worlds Collide storry) :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: cookies for you.
Jindl 06-28-04, 02:20 PM	Originally posted by Caterane I also rewarded Rayne with 10 credits for posting 2 maps. Happy birthday (to whatever monster you might to come up with). LLMadCow lost 12 credits because he sucks :D. Kidding. You'll soon see why. Both of these credit changes have been put on hold until these issues (5 credits per map, and adding inherited templates) are settled by the Elders. All other credits have now been updated for the current fights. Please verify your status as a pitlord and the number of fights you request. -Jindl
Magagumo 06-28-04, 03:03 PM	They may not eb perfectly Core, but that doesn't mean they weren't well-rationed and well-thoughtout when they were created. I an understand your reluctance at this, but I just am not sure it is wise for use to allow people to skip entire tiers f gladiators through credit expenditure- yes, I realize this is a mimic of aour current system for starting ECLS, but I think that the skipping of those fights is a necessary evil. In this case, we're allowing free advancement (and trust me, Clio just got a ton of gold for little effort), and I think thats a bad precendent. IF I suddenly wished Zorander to be a half-fiend, he'd be 15th level! That just rubs me the wrong way. As I said, I know you don't like the progressions, but the templates themselves are Core. I'm not sure they can get too out fo hand in the long-run, since the templates thmselves were playtested. Besides, what makes you think the designers haven't used the progressions themselves before posting them? Most of them play quite a bit...
Jindl 06-28-04, 03:14 PM	@Mag - Your example about Zorander is exactly why I am against adding inherited templates. You cannot do that in a normal campaign, it's not core. Adding acquired templates (there are 4 ... ghost, vampire, lich, and afflicted lycanthrope) by credit expenditure is fine by my. It exactly mimics a campaign where the DM gives a player the option of keeping a PC that has been affected by one of these things. You'll also note that the acquired templates do not have increasing abilities based upon level, like the half-fiend and half-celestials. I really want to stay away from savage progressions because, and I reiterate, they are not Core. I also don't think players should be able to add an inherited template to their existing PC. -Jindl
Jindl 06-28-04, 03:31 PM	Having conferred with Beldin, I want to announce something new for this week: A Title Match. Aemon, the current Unscathed Winner, will be putting his title on the line against the challenger, Rhoar. Should Aemon win, he will remain the Unscathed Winner, having won his first 8 matches. If Rhoar is triumphant, then he will have survived his first 9 fights and will be the new Unscathed Winner. It's not often that a champion has the opportunity to defend his title (indeed, Alathar Vierce was long retired when Iron the Panza took his title, and Iron was long retired with Aemon took his title). This should prove to be an exciting match between two succesful melee builds. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 06-28-04, 03:32 PM	Although, Jindl, you must remember that the arena is a place to test builds. Not necesarily a roleplaying adventure or Campaign. I don't find myself beating an equal level character on a campain and leveling up. I am not against adding aquired templates or inherited templates. Nevertheless, a penalty should be applied when doing so in this fascion. Surviving the lower levels with a template is much more difficult due to the level adjustment, BAB, hp, etc. Should a new rule arise from this debate, I propose 4 credits per additional ECL.
Jindl 06-28-04, 03:35 PM	@Druid - A very good point, and one that I completely agree with. The low survivability of most ECL gladiators in the early levels is certainly an important factor, and I do think requiring additional credits to add a template later (though I still think we should only allow this for the acquired templates) is a good idea. I think 4 credits per ECL (instead of the 3 / ECL when starting) is a good suggestion. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 06-28-04, 04:02 PM	I find that the main problem that you see on this, Jindl, is that it is not "Apropriate" on a campaign. But, consider that those templates, although inherited, are completely possible under the current rules. There is no mechanical difference on paying 6 credits to bump your character from level 4 -> 6 or paying 12 credits to create a new character. The final character is the same one, I cannot find any exploitable situation with Inherited Templates. Although, I still stand by my proposition of 4 credits/ECL. (once the character is active and has fought)
Myrridin 06-28-04, 04:32 PM	Please note that Sindaris is now active. He's located on page 6 in the spot where Rowan was.
Jindl 06-28-04, 04:36 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Please note that Sindaris is now active. He's located on page 6 in the spot where Rowan was. I don't think fey-touched is a Core race. -Jindl
MysticMonk2005 06-28-04, 06:20 PM	:censored: :censored: :hoppingma :censored: :censored: I was working on fights..... and my dad baned me completly from comp. I can not get the fights done. My sincerest appologies to all. later.......
^Rayne^ 06-28-04, 06:26 PM	Seeing as Mystic Monk is out... Who should I send my tactics to now for Aiki Auk's match verses Sven? I can sent it to a willing pitlord promptly if I'm given a name.
Magagumo 06-28-04, 06:27 PM	No, feytouched is horribly wrong- I houseruled it so that its abilites matched the Half-Fey (Immunity to Enchantment spells and effects). The immunity to all mind-affecting spells and effects was rather overpowered... like an aasimar havign immunity to Acid, cold, and elec while Half-celestial only has Res 10- the abilities didn't match up, and it made him overpowered. But yea, we house-ruled it, and then he used Savage Progression to become Half-fey ;) This is one fo the few occurences where non-Core proved bad, though I ignore FAerun completely :D. Another example woudl eb the new Vermin lycanthropes on the page- Great if used with MM vermin, not bad with MM II's leechwalker, but giving a Cloud Giant (CR 13) +7 CR to gain 40 HD and become a gargantuan Vermin that alone has a CR of 17? That's why we ignore that little possibility :D
Hatzinger 06-28-04, 06:34 PM	Fight is done. No story, though. And i didn´t check the character sheets this time. :( Please inform me of any errors you spot. I was informed that Kazeira from Kazzaroth took the place of an other character from Arstimis. I myself was surprised by this and hope that it didn´t cause confusion. In this fight, both gladiators truly give everything! The cliché of the mage defending himself only with his dagger in hand IS NO cliché in this fight. :D Hmm... I am deciding now that Heinrich does not wish to face an enemy with Spell Resistance in the future. :D :behold:
Beldin 06-28-04, 06:50 PM	:behold: :b: gnight then
Sindorin 06-28-04, 07:16 PM	@Hatzinger I don't mean to be picky, it was a great fight and you put a lot of effort into it... but my tactics state to dispel magic on him, and that would include the darkness surrounding him... It would have occurred pretty early on in the fight, and he might have casted it again... I don't know, it was a real good fight, but the Dispel was one of my steps... I guess the tactics may have been a little messed up since i was expecting a Paladin/Bard instead of a Ranger/Fighter... Do what you think is right with the fight, it was well run besides forgetting to dispel the opponent. I wouldn't mind seeing what would happen if Tair casted dispel before he wasted all of his spells... "I attack the darkness!"
Hatzinger 06-28-04, 07:30 PM	hm... yes. I thoughed you´d have written your tactics for the pally, not this one. So i thoughed it wouldn´t be so important for you to dispel him. (and there wasn´t much to dispel, anyway. I thoughed your dispel was aimed at a buffed pally.) Wouldn´t have made much difference, i think. Your attack spells all ignored concealment until he dropped his darkness spell himself. If you want i can try to alter the fight tomorrow evening; but i doubt that you would gain any advantage by dispelling his Bear´s endurance.
Sindorin 06-28-04, 07:36 PM	That would be lovely, but I don't want you taking late penalties just because I decided to get a bit picky... The Dispel would have been aimed at the darkess after Tair realized that it interfered with the first Fireball. Thanks.
Caterane 06-28-04, 07:49 PM	Uhm, don't want to pick on Ethendril but since he's my next opponoment... Zedarak wasn't allowed to have his ECL count for Cohort purposes so I don't think Kiri'endelas should be an exception. She is currently level (not ECL) ...level 7 but her cohort is ECL 9, though it should be ECL 5. Or do you want to say that ECL doesn't count for cohorts either!? Then expect me to bring my lycanthrope vampire half-fiendish half-rdagon with me next time.
Battousai2005 06-28-04, 07:55 PM	@Hatzinger: Hey, I just saw your last fight and wanted to ask you something. Where did you get that awesome map? Just curious as I think it clears up a lot about movement during the fight.
SnarkHunter 06-28-04, 09:14 PM	Fights up Read here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3822196#post3822196) Anywho...where's that fight Captain Mutilate ?:D ;)
Battousai2005 06-28-04, 09:45 PM	Posted Lillith vs. Paul (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=758) and Sarah vs. Ernie (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=760). Two mounted chargers, a rouge sorceress, and a druid. Fun fun fun
Ethendril 06-28-04, 10:14 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Uhm, don't want to pick on Ethendril but since he's my next opponoment... Zedarak wasn't allowed to have his ECL count for Cohort purposes so I don't think Kiri'endelas should be an exception. She is currently level (not ECL) ...level 7 but her cohort is ECL 9, though it should be ECL 5. Or do you want to say that ECL doesn't count for cohorts either!? Then expect me to bring my lycanthrope vampire half-fiendish half-rdagon with me next time. This should probably be in the violations thread, but I'll respond here. I'm not sure myself if ECL is counted for my cohort. When I first had my cohort, I had to give her back and wait a few levels. She has died in both of the fights she's been a part of. Kiri's leadership score is 15. If I can only receive a level 5 cohort at 12th level, I sure hope I can give that feat back and trade it for something worthwhile. I am counting the ECL as levels for the purpose of the leadership feat, which I thought was appropriate. I will say that I think leadership would be completely worthless for anyone with an ECL if my max cohort level will be 5.
Caterane 06-28-04, 10:25 PM	Ethendril, I think that your ECL adds to your HD when determining cohort levels. See, ECL is just another kind of levels so it makes no sense to me that this should be handled differently ...but sense is a thing rarely seen in the CoCo ;) :rolleyes:
Magagumo 06-28-04, 10:39 PM	Personally, i think ECL should be counted. I wasn't trying to pick on ya back then, Cat, but I get tired of quibbling and sometimes go status quo. Also, since there seems to be leanings toward free ress of cohorts, I should note that I don't think we're having Leadership scores decrease either. After all, the rule is if you purposefully let your cohort get killed, so you ahev to get a new one. in this case, I'm pretty sure they'd be forgiving ;) So yea, I approve of ECL-based cohorts... it always bothered me that the 16th ECL Mind Flayer should onyl have a 6th lvl coohort.. those things have enormous LEadership Scores (think about special powers l)). And yes, i'm biased, because I'm starting to think of a cohort for myself :D but that's got 6 levels still... or was it more?
Battousai2005 06-28-04, 10:44 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Ethendril, I think that your ECL adds to your HD when determining cohort levels. See, ECL is just another kind of levels so it makes no sense to me that this should be handled differently ...but sense is a thing rarely seen in the CoCo ;) :rolleyes: Who wants to make sense? Anyway, in my gaming groups, we generally count LA toward level for determination of cohort level. Funniest experience I had with this was a Nymph finding a cohort. Strange that a character with a 40 Charisma would get turned down, eh? :rolleyes: Anyway, selfishness getting the better of me, definately. There is no rule stating otherwise, so my opinion is kinda set. This can be swayed if someone (Arti, stop reading here ;) ) can find a rule stating otherwise.
Ethendril 06-28-04, 10:57 PM	Any idea how much it would cost to cast permanent Resistance at 20th caster level? I can't find the formula for calculating that.
^Rayne^ 06-29-04, 01:19 AM	Toreilison Wevlun Vs. Grimlock Sorry to Magaumo and JonahBlack, that your fight won't be posted on time tonight. I ended up having to take my Cat to the Vet when I got home and I ended up spending more time on the phone with my Dad tonight (it is his Birthday today) and I just haven't had enough time to get through the entire fight. I've already got it started but I have to be at work everyday at 6am and I have to get my sleep or I am useless in the morning. I am really sorry I didn't get the whole thing done but even if I stayed up way past the time I should be in bed I still would be working on this. I will make it my top priority to post your fight as soon as it is done when I get home tomorrow. I've added a little story in already but I will try to make it good since the two of you are forced to wait an extra day. Elder Pitlords, normally I would be given a - credit to my fight but since it looks like Aiki Auk won't be fighting because MysticMonk2005 dropped the fight then I only had one active PC this week. I'm still going to finish this fight credit or not but I don't want to be penalized for a credit when I only had one active PC this week. Again sorry I didn't get this done but my afternoon got very busy very fast and I've been working on the fight for the last couple hours and it just isn't getting anywhere fast. I will have it up tomorrow evening and sorry again about the delay. Feel free to put me on the Penalty List if need be, or not, whatever you think is necessary. -Rayne
Hatzinger 06-29-04, 01:52 AM	@ Sindorin, his darkness spell did not interfere with your fireball. Concealment is only good against your touch attacks, melee or ranged attacks; your spells, especially your area spells, ignore it totally. It was his spell resistance that helped him alot. But i´m afraid you can´t dispel spell resistance. @ Battousai: It was made with DC2 (http://www.dungeoncrafter.com). I posted it in the maps thread. I added the colored things by using photoshop.
Sindorin 06-29-04, 07:32 AM	For some reason (me being stupid?) I thought that it was the darkness giving him the spell resistance, not his racial abilities. In that case I probably would not have won either way. Don't worry about rerunning it or anything, it's my fault I didn't realize the drow had spell resistance. Oh well, no big deal. good fight :) For some reason, the drow's SR has never really come up in campaigns that I have been in...
Hatzinger 06-29-04, 07:47 AM	Yes, i was surprised myself how phat it actually is. isn´t there even a feat in the MM or MoF or RoF that lets you raise that racial SR? I start to think about taking a drow for a new character if i need one in my RL campaign.
Myrridin 06-29-04, 08:56 AM	Originally posted by Jindl I don't think fey-touched is a Core race. -Jindl Damn, that's probably right. Is Half-Fey ok then? If not, I'll work on changing the race, probably some sort of elf then, for the dex bonus if no other reason. :)
Myrridin 06-29-04, 09:53 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger Hmm... I am deciding now that Heinrich does not wish to face an enemy with Spell Resistance in the future. :D :behold: Yeah, Spell Resistance sucks to face. Look at Zephin's last fight, the one versus Ixidor.
Jindl 06-29-04, 11:08 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Damn, that's probably right. Is Half-Fey ok then? If not, I'll work on changing the race, probably some sort of elf then, for the dex bonus if no other reason. :) Better go elf then, because half-fey is not Core either. RE: ECL for Leadership I had posted something on the Violations thread about this, but here is my understanding of how ECL impacts the Leadership feat. 1. Leadership requires that a character be 6th level. This means the character must have 6 HD (racial/class/or both) in order to qualify for the feat. Since this is based on HD, the character's ECL has no impact on the feat requirements. 2. A characters Leadership score (which determines the level of his cohort) does incorporate ECL. In all places where the Leadership score refers to "level" instead use the PC's ECL. 3. Regardless of Leadership score, a cohort is limited to the character's level -2. Use the PC's and the cohort's ECL's for this calculation. Personally, I think this is the correct way to use Leadership with ECL's. Unless there are any objections, then let's continue to use the Leadership feat in this manner when dealing with ECL's. -Jindl
Jindl 06-29-04, 11:13 AM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ Elder Pitlords, normally I would be given a - credit to my fight but since it looks like Aiki Auk won't be fighting because MysticMonk2005 dropped the fight then I only had one active PC this week. I'm still going to finish this fight credit or not but I don't want to be penalized for a credit when I only had one active PC this week. Again sorry I didn't get this done but my afternoon got very busy very fast and I've been working on the fight for the last couple hours and it just isn't getting anywhere fast. I will have it up tomorrow evening and sorry again about the delay. Feel free to put me on the Penalty List if need be, or not, whatever you think is necessary. -Rayne @Rayne - Aiki Auk vs Sven Enno will be postponed until next week and reassigned to another pitlord. MysticMonk will be receiving a late penalty as normal. Aiki's participation in next week's fight will not be charged against you next week, because his participation in this week's fight will not be refunded. This is the way postponed fights have been handled every time they have occurred. As for your own fight (Grimlock vs Tori) being late, per the rules you should get a late penalty. I'm doing the roster update (including the late penalties) now. Feel free to contest any late penalties, especially if you have a good reason ;) -Jindl
Ethendril 06-29-04, 11:22 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Better go elf then, because half-fey is not Core either. RE: ECL for Leadership I had posted something on the Violations thread about this, but here is my understanding of how ECL impacts the Leadership feat. 1. Leadership requires that a character be 6th level. This means the character must have 6 HD (racial/class/or both) in order to qualify for the feat. Since this is based on HD, the character's ECL has no impact on the feat requirements. 2. A characters Leadership score (which determines the level of his cohort) does incorporate ECL. In all places where the Leadership score refers to "level" instead use the PC's ECL. 3. Regardless of Leadership score, a cohort is limited to the character's level -2. Use the PC's and the cohort's ECL's for this calculation. Personally, I think this is the correct way to use Leadership with ECL's. Unless there are any objections, then let's continue to use the Leadership feat in this manner when dealing with ECL's. -Jindl I think Jindl's right. I think Kiri's the only one this applies to right now. If it doesn't work like Jindl proposes, she could only have a level 5 cohort at 12th level with a 28 charisma. That's not going to survive very long, and makes the feat useless for any character with ECL.
Jindl 06-29-04, 12:39 PM	Announcements 1. The fights assigned to MysticMonk (Aiki Auk vs Sven Enno, Brock Granitehand vs Delayar) have been postponed until next week and will be reassigned to a new pitlord. Those PC's will not count as "active gladiators" next week. Do not edit these PC's. When the new pitlord is assigned, please send them tactics. 2. Late penalties have been assessed to MysticMonk (4 weeks penalty, -2 credits), Captain Mutilate (2 weeks penalty, -1 credit), and ^Rayne^ (2 weeks penalty, -1 credit). Messages have been received from both MysticMonk and ^Rayne^ about this. Has anyone heard from Captain Mutilate? Does his fight need to be postponed and reassigned also? 3. Any suggestions for differentiating the Late Penalty on whether the pitlord completes the fight or it has to be reassigned? Perhaps we restore the negative credit if the pitlord completes the fight (though the 2 week penalty would remain). I just don't like it being the same penalty for MysticMonk, whose fight has to be postponed and reassigned, as it is for ^Rayne^, who has pledged to complete his fight tonight. What does everyone think about this? 4. So you want to earn extra credits without pitlording? Well, here's what we are offering: a. Post a new map on the map thread. If the map is approved by the GM's (2 out of 3), then you will receive a credit (its 1 for 1 map, not 5 for 1 as Cat had originally proposed). Hatzinger, ^Rayne^ and Jindl have already received rewards for their submissions. b. Volunteer to audit characters. I am awarding 1 credit for every 12 levels worth of PC's that are audited. This should keep the rewards in line with what is currently given for running fights (ie. auditing an ECL12 character is the same work as auditing 6 x ECL2 characters which is the same as running a single fight). Contact me if you are interested. c. Volunteer to help Ethendril with the World Thread. Again the rewards will be subjectively based, depending on the amount of work done (and keeping with the ratio of 1 credit = the amount of work to run a fight.) Contact Ethendril if you are interested. Hopefully these options will allow people to earn extra credits when there aren't enough fights, when they are under late penalties, or if they just don't like to pitlord. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 06-29-04, 01:00 PM	1!!!!!" ! !!! CAPTAINMUTILATE! I SENT YOut TACTICS POST IN THE THREAD IF YOUR DON'T RECIEVE THEM!M!!!! !!! ! !!! Ah well, at least I'm feeling rather calmer now that I've had a (cold) shower. For a more coherent explanation of my reaction to the results of this fight I direct you towards This post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3828102#post3828102)
Magagumo 06-29-04, 01:13 PM	I have to agree Capn- First, you should annouce if tactics aren't recieved Second (as I stated only last week) you should use default tactics from past fights. Evram has used mount to remain from danger and hits opponent with Overchanneled Mind Thrusts. This might not have been the best straetgy vs. someone with good Will saves, but its better than defualting them Third, you should consult with experienced Mods concerning Psionics if you have serious questions- AT first blush, I should note that anyone with a positive Con score can essentially walk in with Psioic Focus (taking 20). Personally, I know Snark had sent his tactics ontime, and I wonder if this fight should be properly run next week with its record considered null and void? I don't mean to set a double standard, but this a far cry from a new character forgetting to send in tactics, this is an experienced character (2 fights behind him) whose Mod did not fulfill hsi duties. Sorry if I come off harsh, time is of the essence b/c I'm at work.
Jindl 06-29-04, 01:20 PM	@Snarkhunter+KerlanRayne - Hold off on updating your characters please. @Elder Pitlords - Send me your answers to this question ASAP (via email or PM): Should the match between Evram and Cyric be postponed and reassigned for next week, invalidating the result posted by Captain Mutilate, yes or no? I'll post the results (but not individual votes). I hope we can get the issue decided in time to allow the players to update if the fight stands. -Jindl
Myrridin 06-29-04, 01:34 PM	Do to the violatios I've noticed, I'm going to jump back in to auditing characters. I'm going to start at a higher level this time, and move forward.
Jindl 06-29-04, 01:44 PM	With 3 votes being a majority for the Elders, and the first 3 votes being to postpone/reassign and invalidate the current fight, that is what we will do. @Snark + KerlanRayne - Do not edit your characters. The fight will be postponed and reassigned. Your characters will not count as "active PC's" next week (which means you can run Grym if you want to Kerlan). @Elders - We appreciate the quick response! -Jindl
SnarkHunter 06-29-04, 01:48 PM	I've already forwarded my, of course unmodified, tactics to Jindl. For everyone else I'd only like to mention that I have a new E-mail address. tom.hennessy (at) gmail.com Yes it is in fact a google account :).
Druid Roxors 06-29-04, 02:04 PM	Holy crap! Just read all about it and im DYING to get my hands on a GMAIL account... When will they be out for the public?
Jindl 06-29-04, 02:27 PM	Well, since we are going to be off topic, what's the big deal about a google account? -Jindl
Druid Roxors 06-29-04, 02:30 PM	First of all... Google >>> Yahoo > Altavista > All Second: - Search Engine in your MAIL!! no sorting! NO ADS! 1GB Storage FREE! Ands its google. It will work Super Fast. Main reasons I want one...
Captain Mutilate 06-29-04, 02:41 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Holy crap! Just read all about it and im DYING to get my hands on a GMAIL account... When will they be out for the public? Not sure. However I have 6 invites left as far as I know. PM me if you want one.
Druid Roxors 06-29-04, 03:03 PM	Originally posted by Captain Mutilate Not sure. However I have 6 invites left as far as I know. PM me if you want one. I very certainly Do and Have (PMd). :D
Druid Roxors 06-29-04, 03:22 PM	BTW, Now that we are quite offtopic... http://www.hugi.is/hahradi/bigboxes.php?box_id=51208&f_id=1075 Electronic/Supersonic!!
Sindorin 06-29-04, 07:19 PM	Why don't we just make an off-topic thread for the Core Coliseum? EDIT: I have sent Tair Malek on vacation for a couple weeks, and have made my new character Xtonus Soulrendir active... Thanks EDIT: I'm out of town this weekend and next weekend, so I can't go back to active pitlording status just yet - ironically, when school comes back around in September I'll be able to go active again.
freemoody 06-29-04, 08:34 PM	Just so you know Lillith is now UNSTOPPABLE! :fight!: 6 Wins in a row!
LLMadCow 06-29-04, 11:21 PM	Everyone can unbunch their panties, I have resolved the issue of Clio. It's all cool. Also, as I told Eth, I should have 11 credits, not 10. Was Druid Roxors fight he ran for Lorelei ever posted? I cannot find it and McTemplate was asking me if I knew what happened since he is currently out of town.
Battousai2005 06-29-04, 11:56 PM	This week on "Who is Fighting?" Kage Nightwind comes off inactive. Cante returns to heat things up. And Battousai2005 requests one fight during this week. Thank you, Core Coliseum!!!
^Rayne^ 06-30-04, 02:21 AM	Magagumo and JonahBlack, I've been told whether I finished your fight or not I wouldn't get credit for the fight. I have no qualms with that as I was late. However I too had my fight postponed this week, and so I only had one active PC actually fight this week. Yet I am recieving a negative credit as my reward for this late fight so I actually had a credit taken from my reserve for only having one PC fight. Now I still keep this negative credit even if I finish running your fight. Wow it doesn't get much better than that does it? However I also know it is not either of your faults and I don't want to penalize you. I got home today and found myself unmotivated to work on your fight after putting in a couple hours yesterday but I sat around the last hour or so and worked on it some more. So here is my proposition for the two of you... Your choices are as follows A. You have me continue your fight and post it when it is all done (I can guarantee it will be done before this weekend). B. I can post what I have done now as kind of a cliffhanger and add to it till the fight is completed, like a cereal novel in the making. C. You could both decide you don't want me as your Pitlord and request the fight be given to someone else. I personally was leaning to option B as it might create some excitement as I add to the fight a little bit at a time as I complete it. However I know that could be a bit annoying to the two of you. This method might get more story extras added to the fight as my way of making up to the two of you for the poor time schedule I kept. If you decide you want this fight to be run by someone else please let me know so I can forward what I have to the appropriate Pitlord when the time comes. Sorry again about not getting your fight posted. I've already decided to penalize myself by not activating any of my PC's this week and just waiting on the results of Aiki's matchup. Anyway please let me know what you want and I will make it happen. Rayne
Pittbull 06-30-04, 03:11 AM	@Pitlords: Please don't forget to give Angosh a bump. He's looking forward to use his brand-new animated towershield.:cloud9: Thanks
Druid Roxors 06-30-04, 04:34 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow Was Druid Roxors fight he ran for Lorelei ever posted? I cannot find it and McTemplate was asking me if I knew what happened since he is currently out of town. Actually, I was going to post it but since I couldn't save a copy of the actual character sheets, I'd have to type them all from my prints. If you really want it, I can type it up. It will take me a few days tho.
KerlanRayne 06-30-04, 05:23 AM	Originally posted by Jindl @Snark + KerlanRayne - Do not edit your characters. The fight will be postponed and reassigned. Your characters will not count as "active PC's" next week (which means you can run Grym if you want to Kerlan). Cool, then Grym will be active for this week only. KerlanRayne
Myrridin 06-30-04, 08:31 AM	Slidaris is active for this week now. Same place as Rowan. I decided to go away from the whole "elf" thing, and went with a human.
Myrridin 06-30-04, 08:46 AM	This was posted originally in the violations thread, but was never addressed. Rayne: Nlyg "The Miner" is in red violation. Currently you've spent 38 points on stats, as you "sold" your Charisma down by 2, to get the extra points. I don't believe this is legal.
Magagumo 06-30-04, 08:50 AM	@Rayne I appreciate your dedication, and personally vote "B." *Shrug* I'm in no rush to see Tori frozen (it would be nice, but the new chars have won my heart :D) and this allows me to run the other 3 and only have to run 2 fights. Up to Jonah, really.
JonahBlack 06-30-04, 08:59 AM	Hrmm... Well, I have no other characters, so I don't really gain anything, but I can respect that RL got in the way, so I'll vote for A or B...
^Rayne^ 06-30-04, 09:08 AM	This was posted originally in the violations thread, but was never addressed. Rayne: Nlyg "The Miner" is in red violation. Currently you've spent 38 points on stats, as you "sold" your Charisma down by 2, to get the extra points. I don't believe this is legal. I wasn't aware this was illegal? Is it? Please someone tell me where it says we can't sell stat points to gain points another place. I wasn't aware I had broken any rules around here and I certainly wasn't trying to when I built Nylg. --------------------- Onto a different subject. Magagumo and JonahBlack I have heard from both of you and heard your comments. When I get home I will post what I have completed of your fight and then from there add on as I finish additional rounds. Thanks for your patience and I will have pieces of your fight up late this afternoon. I will then begin adding to it immediately in smaller chuncks till it is finished up. -Rayne
Jindl 06-30-04, 09:27 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Announcements 3. Any suggestions for differentiating the Late Penalty on whether the pitlord completes the fight or it has to be reassigned? Perhaps we restore the negative credit if the pitlord completes the fight (though the 2 week penalty would remain). I just don't like it being the same penalty for MysticMonk, whose fight has to be postponed and reassigned, as it is for ^Rayne^, who has pledged to complete his fight tonight. What does everyone think about this? I had posted this on the previous page, but as yet have received no comments. So, I'm posting it again to see if anyone has anything to suggest. -Jindl
Myrridin 06-30-04, 10:16 AM	I think that if the Pitlord posts the late fight before the next set of pairings, then they should have the two weeks penatly, but not the negative credit. If they've made arrangements with the two combatants, then I could see waiving the negative credit, but keeping the two week penalty.
Myrridin 06-30-04, 10:20 AM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ I wasn't aware this was illegal? Is it? Please someone tell me where it says we can't sell stat points to gain points another place. I wasn't aware I had broken any rules around here and I certainly wasn't trying to when I built Nylg. --------------------- -Rayne I'm pretty sure that's not a Core rule Rayne. If it is, then I think I'm going to remake my wizard. I really only need about a 4 Cha, so that gives me 4 more points for Int. I suppose that I only need a 6 Str, so there's 2 more points. Just have to find 2 more points, to really pimp out my important stats. It's a little silly; and it will lead to a huge degree of min-maxing. I mean, if you're not going to use any Cha based skills or feats, what's to stop you from dropping it to a 2? It's worth the 6 points to put into other things.
Caterane 06-30-04, 10:35 AM	Many people had to die for this connection but finally I am back. It's currently only 56k but fortunately I had smashed down the online roller requirement some weeks ago :heehee Kidding guys. I'm trying to get a faster connection. Does anyone know of a good provider? Optimum? Verizon? Jindl, change me to <one> fight. And I'll take the pitlord account over again on friday. PS: Jaegi Knight is a joke in Germany with the :bow: holy Jaegermeister :bow: alcohol. Jaegi Knight <--> Jedi Knight ;)
Tellish_of_Ket 06-30-04, 10:52 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Announcements 3. Any suggestions for differentiating the Late Penalty on whether the pitlord completes the fight or it has to be reassigned? Perhaps we restore the negative credit if the pitlord completes the fight (though the 2 week penalty would remain). I just don't like it being the same penalty for MysticMonk, whose fight has to be postponed and reassigned, as it is for ^Rayne^, who has pledged to complete his fight tonight. What does everyone think about this? I had posted this on the previous page, but as yet have received no comments. So, I'm posting it again to see if anyone has anything to suggest. -Jindl If the pitlord makes every effort to make amends i don't think he/she should be penalized the extra two weeks. Mystic (doesn't appear to me) made any effort to re-assign the fights should have all penalties assigned including negative credits. We could also use the 3-strike rules. Three penalties where no attempt was made equals banning from pitlording. Might be harsh, but if you commit yourself and you know you are and you can't run the fight, then even a quick message saying so could avert disaster. Just my two cents for now. -ToK
Caterane 06-30-04, 11:26 AM	@Mag/Ethendril: Can you activate Zorander or Kiri'endelas? @Barrelmaster: Can you activate Octavian? I wanna fight!! @Tok: Just don't tell Mike to activate Pale-Rider LOL
Ethendril 06-30-04, 11:36 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @Mag/Ethendril: Can you activate Zorander or Kiri'endelas? Patience, my young Jaegi padawan...I just logged on and saw your challenge. See RP thread in a few.
^Rayne^ 06-30-04, 11:38 AM	I'm pretty sure that's not a Core rule Rayne. If it is, then I think I'm going to remake my wizard. I really only need about a 4 Cha, so that gives me 4 more points for Int. I suppose that I only need a 6 Str, so there's 2 more points. Just have to find 2 more points, to really pimp out my important stats. It's a little silly; and it will lead to a huge degree of min-maxing. I mean, if you're not going to use any Cha based skills or feats, what's to stop you from dropping it to a 2? It's worth the 6 points to put into other things. I wasn't pimping out my stats too much but when you have a -4 cut to Str and -2 to Con and you want to make a decent Ranger build then you drop 2 points off your Charisma to do it. Point-buy is min-maxing so what is the big deal of dropping 2 points of Charisma? Personally when I DM games at home I never use Point-buy. I prefer rolling for stats and letting the cards fall where they may. Again, please tell me how I've broken the rules here and I will make the change but as far as I can tell I haven't broken any rules making Nylg. Elder Pitlords do you have any insight into this issue? I haven't seen anywhere under Point-buy that says I can't take two points from one stat to add two points to another one. Is there such a rule? I'm not at home right now so I can't look at my books but as far as I can remember there is nothing that says I can't subtract two points from one stat to add it to another during character creation.
SnarkHunter 06-30-04, 12:03 PM	There is nothing that says you can. More importantly, on page 169 of the DMG, the first sentance after 1. Standard Point Buy reads "All ability scores start at 8". So no going lower without racial mods.
LLMadCow 06-30-04, 12:09 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Actually, I was going to post it but since I couldn't save a copy of the actual character sheets, I'd have to type them all from my prints. If you really want it, I can type it up. It will take me a few days tho. Who won? What were the rolls? How did the loser lose? This is all information that is needed. Both of their character sheets should still be unmodified, and you do not need to retype them, just copy and paste them. You have two players that have been put on hold, and waiting for your post. Either re-run the fight, let someone else run it, or... POST THE RESULTS! @Pitlords/Elders - There should be some sort of compensation for the two players who have been put on hold and have only been ALLOWED to be involved in one fight out of three weeks it has taken for the fight to be run and posted. This is COMPLETELY unfair and a worse offense than taking an extra week to post. This is unheard of.
Jindl 06-30-04, 12:35 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors My computer was acting very strange, I couldnt login for even 2 minutes straight. I guess it was an evil virus or something. Im going to format it, until then, my computer access is Almost 0. This I write on my dad's office. Note that On the fight Lillith Vs Dart, the latter was the Victor. Ill get to all details tomorrow. I am very sorry, you two This was posted on 6/22/04. Druid Roxors meant "Lorelei vs Dart" not "Lillith vs Dart". Apparently Dart was the winner of the fight. I don't know what resources were expended (so I assume it was none). @Druid - Could you at least confirm what resources were used in the fight, and post a summary of what happened and who won on the Fights thread for the PC's to link to? -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 06-30-04, 12:39 PM	Originally posted by Caterane I wanna fight!! @Tok: Just don't tell Mike to activate Pale-Rider LOL So what's wrong with fighting pale-rider? lol. Chicken again? kidding. I haven't talked to him in almost two full weeks now. -ToK
barrel_master 06-30-04, 12:52 PM	I'm in favor of the (-) credit penalty... I would like to see the 'no modding fights' penalty removed though or replaced with a rule that they couldn't mod more then the number of fights they had that particular week for a period of time.
^Rayne^ 06-30-04, 01:27 PM	Quote from Snarkhunter There is nothing that says you can. More importantly, on page 169 of the DMG, the first sentance after 1. Standard Point Buy reads "All ability scores start at 8". So no going lower without racial mods. I disagree with your reasoning on this. When rolling ones stats a PC can easily have under an 8 stat. Pointbuy shouldn't change that possibility. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean that an 8 or higher stat is required under the pointbuy system. All ability scores start at 8, that doesn't mean they have to end there or points can't be subtracted from 8 base stat to put somewhere else. Pointbuy method is min-maxing whether you like it or not. I don't believe your 'evidence' means anything under the rules as written. You can't say "So no going lower without racial mods" when it isn't written in the book you can't. I'm following the rules as stated and untill someone shows me the rule otherwise I can't see that I have broken any. Unless the 3 amigos (Elder Pitlords) decide it isn't allowed I'm not changing Nylg's stat distribution.
SnarkHunter 06-30-04, 02:13 PM	yeah whatever Rayne, you can just wait for that then. I'd make a contingency plan on how you would change them though. In other news I've got a new 2nd level character ready for the fights-check her out here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3837731#post3837731)
Myrridin 06-30-04, 02:14 PM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ I disagree with your reasoning on this. When rolling ones stats a PC can easily have under an 8 stat. Pointbuy shouldn't change that possibility. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean that an 8 or higher stat is required under the pointbuy system. All ability scores start at 8, that doesn't mean they have to end there or points can't be subtracted from 8 base stat to put somewhere else. Pointbuy method is min-maxing whether you like it or not. I don't believe your 'evidence' means anything under the rules as written. You can't say "So no going lower without racial mods" when it isn't written in the book you can't. I'm following the rules as stated and untill someone shows me the rule otherwise I can't see that I have broken any. Unless the 3 amigos (Elder Pitlords) decide it isn't allowed I'm not changing Nylg's stat distribution. There's nothing in the book that states that selling down a stat gives you more points to put elsewhere. You're not following the rules as stated Rayne. If you were allowed to sell stats down to gain more points, it would say that. Just like it lists the costs of certain stats, it would list the bonus you get for selling a stat down. You're arguing from a stance that doesn't have a firm base. So I guess you can go lower without racial mods, but you don't gain a benefit. If you could sell a stat down to earn more points, don't you think something like "36-point buy" would be labelled "36-40-point buy"?
^Rayne^ 06-30-04, 02:32 PM	There's nothing in the book that states that selling down a stat gives you more points to put elsewhere. You're not following the rules as stated Rayne. If you were allowed to sell stats down to gain more points, it would say that. Just like it lists the costs of certain stats, it would list the bonus you get for selling a stat down. You're arguing from a stance that doesn't have a firm base. So I guess you can go lower without racial mods, but you don't gain a benefit. If you could sell a stat down to earn more points, don't you think something like "36-point buy" would be labelled "36-40-point buy"? No actually I don't think they would label it 36-40-point buy. I don't believe I am breaking any rules either. I believe they assumed no one would want a stat lower than 8 and that is the base for negative modifiers. As I said standard character creation is supposed to be dice rolled and that allows stats as low as 3. Pointbuy shouldn't change this possibility. You may disagree with my call on this and that is your opinion but you don't have any proof or written rule from the Core Rules that says this isn't an option. So until it is ruled by an Elder as illegal then I don't think giving my PC a Red Violation tag is fair. I am saying the stats current base is only a point from which to start from. I decided Nylg needed two points to add to another area to give him a chance and Charisma was the best place to take it from. I don't see what all the fuss is about but as the rules are stated I haven't broken them. Right now you are relying on your interpretation of the rules and not what is written in them. I am relying on what is written in them but I will follow any ruling the Elder 3 make on this. My position on this, is that it isn't stated you can't do this in the rules and obviously you and Snarkhunter haven't found any real quotes or evidence from the Core material to refute this. Till you do, I am in compliance with the rules as written, but I will make changes to my PC if the Elders decide what I have done isn't in keeping with the spirit of the rules.
Jindl 06-30-04, 02:51 PM	@Elders - Please email me your yes/no answer to the following question: Can a player sell back a stat below 8 to gain points to put elsewhere? Best 3 of 5 wins the vote. Please email/pm me with your response. (@All - Can we hold the discussion where it is until I get a result from this vote?) -Jindl
Magagumo 06-30-04, 03:24 PM	*Keeps mouth shut on issue* Man, *looking at Snark's character* I remember when elves were the big thing to hate in the Arena (via Favored Enemy), but now it seems Humans are the new thing :-P Will we ever see the rise of orc hatred? :D At first and second blush, Snark, Rose looks alright (at least from what I've seen). Good luck with her, I think Deep Crystal Spiked Chains could be fun, personally ;)
Druid Roxors 06-30-04, 03:29 PM	@ LLMadcow: When I informed the players who had won I Did ensure that they had advanced their characters and the Roster was successfully updated. Since that happened, I had phisical prints of the fighters made to run the fight offline. The problem now resides in the fact that I would have to retype or scan the phisical prints to get the fight correctly posted. Even though, It pains me to do it, and other pitlords have gotten away with it (ToK I believe) I will have my notes and character sheets Typed up. Today hopefully.
Druid Roxors 06-30-04, 03:42 PM	Also, The fight was against Lorelei and Dart, not Lillith. I believe I ran 2 consecutive fights with Lillith included the weeks before so I just wrote Lillith instead of Lorelei. Lorelei and Dart had minimal expenditures (lots of ammo).
Magagumo 06-30-04, 04:08 PM	On a side note, was their a decisive conlusion toward multiple expentitures of spells to achieve a 16 hr total? (I.E. a 4th lvl caster could Extend 2 Mage Armors to qualify as a pre-buff). Personally, I've begun to approve of this tactics (as it would speed fights up... last buffing I mean). Just didn't want this idea (originalyl Jindl's, reiterated by Cat), to slip by.
kattattack22 06-30-04, 09:53 PM	I support the stacking of spells with 1 hr/lvl casting time for the 16 hour pre-buff. As to Rayne's penalty for posting late, but still hopefully in time for pairings. I would say he still loses the credits, but no two week suspension.
Ethendril 06-30-04, 10:36 PM	Stacking spells: While I think that Vaarkalikax, Dusk, and Kiri would have some fun with this, I think it's bad for balance in the arena. We have finally seen some very successful melee characters such as Rhoar, Kage, and Aemon. I think it would be a setback for balance. For every melee character that stacked 16 potions, there would be a mage or cleric walking in with 10-12 buffs, especially at higher levels. It would be fun, but throw off the balance.
Jindl 06-30-04, 11:03 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Elders - Please email me your yes/no answer to the following question: Can a player sell back a stat below 8 to gain points to put elsewhere? Best 3 of 5 wins the vote. Please email/pm me with your response. (@All - Can we hold the discussion where it is until I get a result from this vote?) -Jindl With 4 votes received, all of them "no", the issue is resolved by strong majority. Players cannot sell back a stat below 8 to gain points. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 06-30-04, 11:06 PM	So Jindl...we gonna...get some pairings today?
Jindl 07-01-04, 12:05 AM	Matchups are set, assigning pitlords now. Expect them to be posted in 30 minutes or so (gotta take a quick break). -Jindl
Caterane 07-01-04, 12:09 AM	Originally posted by Jindl With 4 votes received, all of them "no", the issue is resolved by strong majority. Players cannot sell back a stat below 8 to gain points. -Jindl And here's the 5th one. It doesn't need a genius to see that this will produce a lot of Cha 3 dudes which would make the arena ridiculous. That alone is enough to say no. And there are no rules for it. While it is possible to roll a 3 by using dice, there is nowhere written how you trade in ability points; only how much it costs to buy them, not sell them. Pretty obvious to me.
Battousai2005 07-01-04, 12:25 AM	Ok, Jindl, not max fights, PLEASE!!! Just one for this week. I'm not too sure what to do with the creds anyway. Hmm... Maybe... *mumbles*
^Rayne^ 07-01-04, 01:46 AM	I've decided I will be retiring all of my PC's here and leaving this section of the boards. I enjoy the Real Adventures: Real Roleplay section of the board much better anyway and lately I've been feeling people around here aren't paticularly happy to have me around. I see and respect the decision of the Elders to ban selling of stats although I don't agree with it. Still this wasn't the reason for my decision. I will remove all of my PC's from the boards soon as I don't feel people enjoy them or my presence here anyway. At least over at the other end of the board I am welcome but here I constantly feel like everyone is itching to point a finger my way to yell "You're Wrong". I've grown tired of seeing a few people who seem to know it all get in the way of having fun. It was fun while it lasted and I enjoyed the kobolds I built when I felt they were appreciated. Good luck in all of your fights, and try to remember to have fun. Sometimes I think people lose track of that around here, I found myself forgetting that amonst all the overly competitive people. I didn't think it was a big deal to take a couple points from one stat to drop it on another especially when making a PC from a race everyone should know isn't truly a level 1 class no matter what the MM says. I see I was wrong in this belief. Sorry for ruining your fun. P.S. To Magagumo and JonahBlack, I ended up getting to see Spider Man II tonight and was away. My last act here on the boards besides taking down my PC's will be to finish up your fight. Sorry I didn't post tonight but rest assured your fight will be run properly and posted soon. I didn't want to pass up a chance to see the movie but I will get your fight up soon. All PC's have been deleted, Elder Pitlords feel free to remove the posts from the Gladiator's section as I do not have permission to delete the post permanently.
Druid Roxors 07-01-04, 04:36 AM	I am sorry you are leaving this area of the boards Rayne. I've always enjoyed how you try to build from one of the most underpowered (in my opinion) templates, characters that can (sometimes) be competitive. But all in all, you allways favored roleplay over numbers and fun over all else. I hope I was not one of those "know it alls" you refer to, and im sorry if I was. Either way, it is best to do what's best for you and if there is something you do not enjoy, it is on your best intrest to stop doing it. Be good and Bye Rayne. Ill allways remember the brave Aki running arround the arena with hippogriphs behind... ;)
Pittbull 07-01-04, 06:17 AM	It' sad that You leave, I always liked Aiki, the litttle guy who never gives up. It's tough place for meleers, with all the casters all around. I dedicate Angosh's next win to Aiki - I hope it'll be soon!;) :bow: to Aiki Auk:bow:
Myrridin 07-01-04, 08:30 AM	Rayne: While I didn't agree with the selling down of stats, I always liked Pitlording your characters. They had depth to them, and at least stuck by their guns. No easy wins for Aiki Auk, when he managed to get them. Come back and bring some new kobolds at some point.
Magagumo 07-01-04, 08:39 AM	I wish you the utmost success, Rayne, and I hope that if the fancy strikes you, you will return to play with us :). I never fought Aiki, but I knew him to be an intriguing character with real flavor. Have fun with RPing, I think you'll have a great time. Edit: Looking at pairings, it seems Velomente and Cante are fighting.. but I also see that Banzanifal and CrestingSun are the only OK'd individuals at 4th. Unless someone arrives fo one or both to fight, I would definetely prefer that they not fight one another... strikes me as foolish and wrong. If Cresting and Ban aren't fighting, and you need an additional character at 2nd level, I could have Borealis fight if someone would lke. He's finished, but his gold just isn't listed (he's spent well below the 1000 gold start though). Just giving you some options :)
Jindl 07-01-04, 09:17 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Matchups are set, assigning pitlords now. Expect them to be posted in 30 minutes or so (gotta take a quick break). -Jindl Aqua Teen Hunger Force good. Falling asleep while watching ATHF, bad. Pairings will be posted shortly... -Jindl
Ethendril 07-01-04, 10:53 AM	I am very sorry to see Rayne go, as I thought his characters were all great and well-developed. I was fearing for the day he decided to do a kobold sorcerer or wizard, which I thought would be very successful. The kobolds will be missed. @All: Please don't ever delete any characters (not trying to be a know-it-all, just a record keeper), especially higher level characters. I would have liked to link Aiki (at least) to the graveyard and other sections of the World Thread.
Jindl 07-01-04, 11:10 AM	Originally posted by Magagumo Looking at pairings, it seems Velomente and Cante are fighting.. but I also see that Banzanifal and CrestingSun are the only OK'd individuals at 4th. Unless someone arrives fo one or both to fight, I would definetely prefer that they not fight one another... strikes me as foolish and wrong. @Mag - Capn Mutilate activated Tre'mire, but he edited ~2 hours after the deadline. I would be happy to pair either Banzanifal or CrestingSun against him, if you are okay with the late edit. Also, since he edited late, I'll let you decide which PC you want to face him. Please let me know ASAP so I can make the pairing. If you don't want to decide, let me know and I'll randomly determine it. -Jindl
Magagumo 07-01-04, 11:26 AM	He looks to be an incredibly good challenge for either character, and I should note that his grapple check should be +7 (forgot Improved Grapple bonus :)). Considering that neither Ban or Crest have fought a monk (or a character with such high AC) I ask that you determine it randomly.
Pitlords 07-01-04, 11:53 AM	Pairings are Done. 1. Tactics are due Friday. 2. Fights may be ran with Tactics starting on Friday. 3. Fights may be ran with Default Tactics starting on Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late Penalties will apply on Tuesday. Good Luck! @Mag - I rolled randomly and Banzanifal sits out. -Jindl
Ethendril 07-01-04, 12:03 PM	@kattattack, freemoody, Magagumo, and Captain Mutilate: I am going out of town on Monday, and would very much like to run your fights on Friday. If possible, please have your tactics to me by Friday morning. Thank you. -Ethendril
Battousai2005 07-01-04, 02:48 PM	Rayne? Leaving? :weep: I'm gonna miss Aiki. He was a good character. Samurai pride!!! You're gonna be missed, man.
Ethendril 07-01-04, 02:53 PM	I've been feeling people around here aren't paticularly happy to have me around. @Rayne: After all the posts above, I think that it's pretty clear this isn't a fair statement. The Coliseum may be full of know-it-alls, but they all like you!
Magagumo 07-01-04, 03:22 PM	Can do, Eth. I'm sure Kiri's tactics are sitting on my comp in my room, so if Cat gets Zedarak's tactics to me, we can have plenty of time to go over all the mistakes that were made (or not, I hope :D). As Velo and Crest are fairly simply (compared to, say, Bruno.. can't wait till he breaks out of the ice :D) I should have your tactics to you within 2 hrs.
Pitlords 07-01-04, 04:36 PM	@Elders: Please be aware that there are 3 issues in the Core Coliseum Senate (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=236361) which require your vote. Please follow the link and vote on the new polls regarding Stacking Prebuffs, Inherited Templates, After Creation Costs for Templates. Thanks! -Jindl
Myrridin 07-01-04, 05:15 PM	Jindl: I noticed that you're working on a centaur half-dragon. I considered bringing one in as a counter to Zedrack. I'll be interested to see how it goes.
SnarkHunter 07-01-04, 07:09 PM	Just for Cat (http://www.wagenschenke.ch/). Other people can click it too if they want to though.
Caterane 07-01-04, 09:06 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo ...we can have plenty of time to go over all the mistakes that were made (or not, I hope :D). :( @Snark: 20 Meters only. I'd make thrice that distance :D @Jindl: Why didn't I get a fight?
Sindorin 07-01-04, 09:22 PM	i made 55
Jindl 07-01-04, 09:30 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Jindl: Why didn't I get a fight? Sorry. I tried to give them to some of the others who have been asking for weeks. I'll make sure you get one next week. FYI: Since Dr. Dre sat out, your admin credit covered your two participating gladiators. -Jindl
Magagumo 07-01-04, 09:32 PM	40 meters- go optical mouse for that extra-fine touch :D
Ethendril 07-01-04, 10:22 PM	Originally posted by Caterane :( @Jindl: Why didn't I get a fight? Say the word, and you can have one of mine...
Caterane 07-02-04, 01:47 AM	Please Ethendril. Not that I'm specially drawn to England but I have nothing to celebrate over the weekend :D Give me your low-level fight though if you don't mind.
Ethendril 07-02-04, 11:23 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Please Ethendril. Not that I'm specially drawn to England but I have nothing to celebrate over the weekend :D Give me your low-level fight though if you don't mind. Cat: I actually started writing the story for the low-level fight. I'm already in pretty deep. Do you want the other?
Caterane 07-02-04, 11:33 AM	Sure, then I'll take the other one; just didn't want to rob you your Highlevel fight. Send me all tactics asap. @Lilith and Arkin: Send me your tactics today please.
Ethendril 07-02-04, 11:36 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Sure, then I'll take the other one; just didn't want to rob you your Highlevel fight. Send me all tactics asap. @Lilith and Arkin: Send me your tactics today please. Tactics forwarded...
Myrridin 07-02-04, 02:57 PM	I just introduced the newest psycho in the group. Aiella Constantine. A completely insane Derro bent on proving she's the best assassin in the Core Arena. (ECL 4)
Ethendril 07-02-04, 03:19 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin I just introduced the newest psycho in the group. Aiella Constantine. A completely insane Derro bent on proving she's the best assassin in the Core Arena. (ECL 4) Very cool character, Myrridin...perhaps Vaarkalikax and Death Dealer will seek an alliance with Aiella. One problem is that a character with racial HD starts with no class levels here. So Death Dealer, now a Bugbear with 3 HD with 1 level of cleric, had to start as a 3 HD Bugbear.
Myrridin 07-02-04, 04:01 PM	Eth: Gotcha. I thought that was an optional rule. If you had HD, you could start w/o a class level, to save 3 credits. Otherwise you could start with 1 class level, and move from there. Let me know because it'll influence my feat selection.
Ethendril 07-02-04, 04:10 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Eth: Gotcha. I thought that was an optional rule. If you had HD, you could start w/o a class level, to save 3 credits. Otherwise you could start with 1 class level, and move from there. Let me know because it'll influence my feat selection. Yeah, the arena rule is that you have to start a character at the earliest possible level. This makes creatures with LA more difficult.
Magagumo 07-02-04, 04:23 PM	Aye, Tori got lucky with ehr first fight, though monstrous humoanid's make fairly effective combatants. Kiri had some difficulties at first, didn't she?
Jindl 07-02-04, 04:28 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin I just introduced the newest psycho in the group. Aiella Constantine. A completely insane Derro bent on proving she's the best assassin in the Core Arena. (ECL 4) Unfortunately, there is another problem. Derro have a +2 LA listed only if they are sane (which means the racial adjustments to Wis and Cha disappear). Insane Derro do not have a LA listed, making them invalid choices as a PC race. Sorry, Myrridin. -Jindl
Ethendril 07-02-04, 04:29 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Kiri had some difficulties at first, didn't she? Only if you consider 5-0 a difficulty.;) Actually, the difficulty was not brining enough arrows... EDIT: Cool story, freemoody...
Myrridin 07-02-04, 05:28 PM	*sigh* Well, I'll delete the Derro then. Back to the drawing board. :)
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 07-02-04, 05:33 PM	Kazeira laughed in tavern! He had beated feared Tair Malek, the Evoker! He had standed middle of flames and his bombardment of his spells almost unscathed while he fired his arrows into him and finaly dropped him! Kazeira felted confident, maybe he is finaly learning and becoming experienced warrior. He toasted to himself; "Heh, I finaly taste some amount sweetness now! I feel now first time happy. But I should now think Boldrift Mattock's plans and try find someone to join his cause. Hmmm, who would be powerfull aide to the cause." Kazeira pondered for long time, until he remembered a person, a person who he would had not dared to meet earlier. But now that Kazeira felted confident, he thinked he was ready to meet Vaarkalikax, the rumored mad elf wizard who thinked himself as lich! He is mad clearly, but powerfull wizard who knowed how to use a blade would be good ally to his and Boldrift's cause. Kazeira finnished his drink, backed his battle gear in case if Vaarkalikax needed to "persuade". But Kazeira was confident, he should easily beat the wizard, after all he is nto that experienced like Tair Malek. Some people heard his plans and many suggested him to quit his madman's crusade, but Kazeira was arrogant and cocky, not to mention too confident. Kazeira headed to the Vaarkalikax's castle, at nigth. After the morning, none heard nothing from Kazeira nor his whereabouts. He had disappeared and his last know location was front of the gates of Vaarkalikax's castle. It was asumed that the drow had died horribly there.......... I want that Kazeira Daek'Haert is temporalily taken off from active gladiator list. I am no longer to able to actively play Kazeira after next week and I have plans for him. The Vaarkalikax's figth comed in excelent coincidence wich will greatly improve my planned development for him ;). Only need very big blasted amount of credits to make him active again.......
Druid Roxors 07-02-04, 07:22 PM	Now just a minute. Can't we start characters as already advanced? Say I want to create a level 4 human wizard. Can't I just spend the credits? I have no plans of using a LA Creature so I will just be unable to use my credits?
Jindl 07-02-04, 07:38 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Now just a minute. Can't we start characters as already advanced? Say I want to create a level 4 human wizard. Can't I just spend the credits? I have no plans of using a LA Creature so I will just be unable to use my credits? No, you cannot spend credits to begin at a higher level with a no ECL race. However, you could use your credits to keep more than one gladiator active at a time without having to pitlord that weekend. For example, if you had 3 PC's, you could pitlord a single fight and spend 1 credit in order to have all three active one week. Or pitlord 0 fights and spend 2 credits to keep all three active that week. Understand?
Druid Roxors 07-02-04, 07:40 PM	I am living a LIE!! *Runs around in despair*
Battousai2005 07-02-04, 08:18 PM	Hey, Ethendril, when do you plan on activating the last character you posted? The next century, perhaps? (if he can save up credits by then.) When you do, notify me. I think I'll chanllange him (her? it?). ;) For those of you who are clueless to what I am talking about, go here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=171)
Ethendril 07-02-04, 08:56 PM	Batt: I posted that last week as a joke, but no one said anything. I plan on pitlording 10 fights a week for two years.
Myrridin 07-02-04, 10:03 PM	Where do I find the number of HP a weapon has?
Myrridin 07-02-04, 10:32 PM	Nevermind to my above question. I don't have my link handy, but I'll get it there. Kage Nightwind vs Angosh is up. There may be some errors with it, as it's kinda late, so just let me know, and I'm more than willing to fix them.
Magagumo 07-02-04, 11:12 PM	@Myrridin As a Large, two-handed metal weapon, my guess is that the chain would have 10x2=20 hp. Of course, putting an actual enchanment on the thing (hint, hint ;)), will give it 10 more hp.
Druid Roxors 07-03-04, 12:30 AM	@ Jindl: Most Definately change my E-Mail Address to "rodolfomtzgza@gmail.com". I love it :D
Caterane 07-03-04, 12:43 AM	And Gmail accounts can already be used to read and send email in most languages (even Klingon). Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam
Druid Roxors 07-03-04, 12:46 AM	YOUR MAMA! eh, yes...
Pitlords 07-03-04, 10:04 AM	Votes in the Senate have been finished. 1. Stackable prebuffs are not allowed 2. Inherited templates must be taken at level 1 3. Adding non-inherited templates after character creation costs 4 credits The Polls are still open for anoter week but all of them are voted with a majority so it seems unlikely that anything will change. Next thing: Linking your fights! This rule is written in lovely darkgreen at the top of the roster for weeks now. However, some still haven't linked their fights. Please make sure that you have your fights (and results would be nice too) linked at the bottom of your sheet. - Cat
Beldin 07-03-04, 10:34 AM	1. :) 2. :sad: 3. :eek: 4. :behold: o-oh
Caterane 07-03-04, 10:44 AM	Hear, hear, Mag has a new avatar. Was about time. Never liked the old one :) @Beldin: Holland is out and we have 2 germans in the final: Otto Rehagel, and the referee Markus Merck so we still made it :) You can end your "Trauerzeit" @Druid: Actually it means "It's a good day to die"
Magagumo 07-03-04, 10:56 AM	Bah! Twas a lovely avatar- but who can refuse an Eberron House Crest with a Hydra on it ;) (Not me, that's for sure :D)
Hatzinger 07-03-04, 11:25 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @Beldin: Holland is out and we have 2 germans in the final: Otto Rehagel, and the referee Markus Merck so we still made it :) You can end your "Trauerzeit" Lets call him "Rehakles" from now on. And btw: who else got free Ouzos? :D :ayyyy!: :D:
Hatzinger 07-03-04, 11:30 AM	Some people here state that Rays of Enfeeblement don´t stack. I do not see why. The description of the spell states an unnamed penalty to Str. Since unnamed boni do stack, i don´t see why unnamed penalties shouldn`t. Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Beldin 07-03-04, 11:49 AM	hahaa it was a free pita-gyros!! surely all the greeks will be poor if they win the championship!!:angel:
Magagumo 07-03-04, 12:20 PM	Penalties can stack, but not if its from the identical spell sopurce- as a duration-based spell, Ray of Enfeeblement applies a penalty to their strength for x minutes. If two RoE exist on a char, then you check whichever one has the higher penalty and apply that. If one of them then dissappears, the other takes over.
Jindl 07-03-04, 12:27 PM	See the section "Combining Magical Effects" (PHB, pg 171) where it talks about stacking effects. "Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves." Strength is an attribute, so the penalty to Str from Ray of Enfeeblement does not stack with additional castings of the same spell, even though it is an unnamed penalty. -Jindl
Hatzinger 07-03-04, 01:03 PM	Thanks for pointing this page out, Jindl. Though i don´t think your initial argumentation would stand to closer examination, on the next page there was even an example with a ray of enfeeblement; under "Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths, right behind the statement that "... A Bonus that isn´t named [...] stacks with any bonus." (which at first convinced me that i was right. ;) ). I´ll recite it here: "In cases where two or more identical spells are operating [...], but at different strengths, only the best one applies."
Battousai2005 07-03-04, 02:12 PM	@Ethendril: Heh. Shame no one saw it. Lovely joke. Only one problem: Terrasque has int 2, so it can't be a character. It would make a lovely cohort though... :schemes:
Druid Roxors 07-03-04, 02:15 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Druid: Actually it means "It's a good day to die" Reminds me of starcraft... :bigeyes:
Caterane 07-03-04, 02:42 PM	I have finished my fight (Lillith vs Arkin). However, I'd love to have another two gladiators participate in the story which has potential to enter the Hall of Fame. Another fight would perfectly fit the story! So I want to ask you if someone is so generous to give me his fight. It doesn't matter what level though low-level would be better than high ones. You can even keep the credit and everything. Or what about that: After you have finished your fight, you send the results and plain rolls to me and I incorporate it in my story.
Myrridin 07-03-04, 02:43 PM	And the battle for Unscathed Winner is finished! Aemon vs Rhoar is up. Since this is a pretty important battle, PLEASE let me know if anything's wrong. I spent a long time checking to make sure I had the tactics correct, and spent a long time going over the fight.
Druid Roxors 07-03-04, 03:09 PM	Originally posted by Caterane I have finished my fight (Lillith vs Arkin). However, I'd love to have another two gladiators participate in the story which has potential to enter the Hall of Fame. Another fight would perfectly fit the story! So I want to ask you if someone is so generous to give me his fight. It doesn't matter what level though low-level would be better than high ones. You can even keep the credit and everything. Or what about that: After you have finished your fight, you send the results and plain rolls to me and I incorporate it in my story. Didn't you get an extra fight Cat? Or was I supposed to run it?
Caterane 07-03-04, 04:53 PM	I just got Lillith vs Arkin. Which extra fight? We wait until sunday on Rayne's and it is still possible that he finishes it. @Magagumo/Jonah Black: Please send me your tactics!
Magagumo 07-03-04, 06:04 PM	PMed them along, just in case. Edit: Big notes on Rose v. Domai I'm afraid- the winner may still win, but major changes really are in order...
Ethendril 07-03-04, 06:07 PM	Tre'mire vs. Cresting Sun is up.
kattattack22 07-03-04, 07:00 PM	@Battousai2005 - I have NOT received any tactics for Cante. Please get them to me today so I run the fight tomorrow.
Beldin 07-03-04, 09:00 PM	i won! surely this was the most expensive victory ever...
Jindl 07-03-04, 10:47 PM	Question: Can a PC of a race which has an "Always XXX" alignment, exist with a different alignment? For example, could I make a Pixie that was evil instead of good? -Jindl
Magagumo 07-03-04, 10:55 PM	It's described as "one in a million" but I'm not going to stand in your way. As long as it isn't an outsider, you should be fine (outsiders get really complex after all... I now realize I was playing a character with the Evil, Lawful, Chaotic, and Good subtypes in Snark's old epic game.. how's that for complicated?)
Arstimis 07-03-04, 10:56 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Question: Can a PC of a race which has an "Always XXX" alignment, exist with a different alignment? For example, could I make a Pixie that was evil instead of good? -Jindl I'm sure you can answer your own question. First just tell me what "Always" means
Jindl 07-03-04, 11:18 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo It's described as "one in a million" but I'm not going to stand in your way. As long as it isn't an outsider, you should be fine (outsiders get really complex after all... I now realize I was playing a character with the Evil, Lawful, Chaotic, and Good subtypes in Snark's old epic game.. how's that for complicated?) I was pondering a Pixie Rog1/Sor6/Asn1/AT8... [EDIT: Thanks, Ethendril :D ] -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 07-04-04, 10:25 AM	"ALWAYS" kinda sums it up. At least, that's my opinion. Octavian vs Ixidor is up. -ToK
Caterane 07-04-04, 10:53 AM	http://www.1a-network.de/grafik/guestbook/smilies/freu.gif http://www.1a-network.de/grafik/guestbook/smilies/prost.gif http://www.1a-network.de/grafik/guestbook/smilies/chef.gif http://www.1a-network.de/grafik/guestbook/smilies/birthday.gif http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/birthday.gif But I don't want to give anything away :D
Ethendril 07-04-04, 11:09 AM	Originally posted by Jindl I was pondering a Pixie Rog1/Sor4/Asn1/AT10... -Jindl But you have to cast 3rd level arcane spells, not 2nd level. So you need Rog1/Sor6/Asn1/AT8. I pondered the same thing with Kiri...instead, she's going to have to be Rog3/Sor6/AT7.
Magagumo 07-04-04, 11:14 AM	Not that it changed the fight, but there's an issue with Ixidor's equipment.... See violations
Caterane 07-04-04, 11:39 AM	Here's new stuff for you: The Story continues... (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3869813#post3869813) Enjoy!
LLMadCow 07-04-04, 12:40 PM	Half-Angel Clìodhna d'Elrich (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3004556#post3004556) has returned to the arena. Feel free to critique and review. I know there is a little bit of editing to be done, but for the time being she is frozen anyway... And I have added Half-Giant Stormrider Valentine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3004572#post3004572) to my array of characters in play. Herrix Ignatius will return later, just not now...
barrel_master 07-04-04, 12:41 PM	I'll be traveling for the next few weeks and as such I can not gurantee my partcipation on these boards for the next little while.
Jindl 07-04-04, 12:53 PM	Re: Half-Celestial Clio Just to explain, the Elder's did vote unanimously against allowing inherited templates to be added later. However, there was also a majority vote to make an exception in this case for Clio. Please do not expect to see any other exceptions on this topic. Acquired templates (ghost, vampire, lich, and lycanthrope) may still be added after character creation, at a cost of 4 credits per ECL added. -Jindl
KerlanRayne 07-04-04, 01:44 PM	Did we ever agree on whether Shillelagh works on Greatclubs or just Clubs? KerlanRayne
Jindl 07-04-04, 01:46 PM	Originally posted by KerlanRayne Did we ever agree on whether Shillelagh works on Greatclubs or just Clubs? KerlanRayne I think the final answer was clubs (and quarterstaffs). -Jindl
Magnificate 07-04-04, 03:48 PM	Can anyone tell young newbie why there are no level 13 or higher fights in Core Coliseum?
LLMadCow 07-04-04, 03:48 PM	From the Players Handbook, Page 118 Greatclub: A greatclub is a two-handed version of a regular club. It is often studded with nails or spikes or ringed by bands of iron. This VERY CLEARLY states that the greatclub is a two-handed version of a regular club. Also take into consideration the second line which says it is often studded with nails or spikes or ringed by bands of iron; often does not mean always. If you tell me that I cannot use shillelagh on a greatclub, I will simply point out that I am not using a greatclub, but in fact, a two-handed club. Enjoy, I know that my arguement is VERY sound in this instance. I didn't buy it when Jindl tried to tell me I was wrong the first time, but I went along with him. Now, I finally looked up the description. I win. It is not just flavor text. Not all weapons are descrivbed in the SRD. If you are referring to the picture in the PHB, then READ THE DESCRIPTION for further details! Edit 1: As an additional comment to further define the logic I am using - would a larger creature be prevented from using Shillelagh on their Club just because they are too big? I think not. Shillelagh does, in fact, work on greatclubs/clubs/two-handed clubs/clubs for bigger creatures. Enjoy. Edit 2: It IS in the PHB. It IS NOT world setting specific. There is no need for vote or debate since it IS MOST OBVIOUSLY CORE!
Jindl 07-04-04, 03:52 PM	@ LL - Club is a specific weapon. Greatclub is a different, specific weapon. One is a simple weapon, the other is a martial weapon. Different proficiencies for different weapons. As for a greatclub simply being a larger club (and thus 2 handed), if it were a club sized to be two handed, it would deal 1d8 damage, not 1d10. No, a greatclub is a different weapon, just like a greataxe is different from a battleaxe. @Magnificate - The Lvl 13's got tired of fighting each other again and again. So they voluntarily froze to wait for new blood to reach the higher levels. They'll unfreeze once we have sufficient PC's at that level to create some new pairings. -Jindl
LLMadCow 07-04-04, 04:00 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @ LL - Club is a specific weapon. Greatclub is a different, specific weapon. One is a simple weapon, the other is a martial weapon. They are clearly different weapons. -Jindl When the book says: A greatclub is a two-handed version of a regular club. ...This obviously says it iS the same weapon. Stating what type of weapon it is, simple or martial, is merely an aspect of what type of training is needed to use it. Originally posted by Jindl Different proficiencies for different weapons. Next are you going to say that Bastard Sword is two different weapons because you can use it one-handed if you have the training to use it as an exotic weapon, or two-handed if you only have training in martial weapons? Faulty logic. Sorry bud, I stand my ground. For sale: Exotic, One-Handed Bastard Sword. And now for something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT... Also for sale: Martial, Two-handed Bastard Sword. So, one is a Bastard Sword and the other is ... um ... not a Bastard Sword, but something else ... yeah, something else!
Jindl 07-04-04, 05:08 PM	After discussing this with the only two members, we have decided to disband the League. Main reasons: lack of RP, lack of members. Kiri and Donkey are available if any other guilds wish to recruit them. -Jindl
Boldrift-Mattock 07-04-04, 05:28 PM	I am bringing Boldrift back to the arena I still have to up his LVL by one for the three losses at 4th LVL. I am sorry about the absants.
kattattack22 07-04-04, 08:55 PM	Cante vs. Veloment is up. Sorry no link. If anyone remembers Celebrity Deathmatch on MTV they will enjoy the story.
Battousai2005 07-04-04, 10:48 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 Cante vs. Veloment is up. Sorry no link. If anyone remembers Celebrity Deathmatch on MTV they will enjoy the story. Check comments and concerns thread please. Originally posted by Magnificate Can anyone tell young newbie why there are no level 13 or higher fights in Core Coliseum? Yah, we're all losers and we can't beat each other when we hit thirteenth level. Actually, it was frozen in order to let other gladiators catch up. Ask an eldar mod when it unfreezes. I don't personally know. Ok, now a question I have been dying to ask. Can we make characters from creatures that are listed as LA+whatever (cohort)?
Pittbull 07-05-04, 05:27 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Ok, now a question I have been dying to ask. Can we make characters from creatures that are listed as LA+whatever (cohort)? I think it's possible, Ethendril has done it allready. Look at Kiri's cousin.
Dawnlord 07-05-04, 05:38 AM	The Fight: Xtonus Soulrendir, Sindorin vs. Ivan, Irien (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3875570#post3875570) is done.
Druid Roxors 07-05-04, 06:25 AM	The fight Sven Enno Vs Ernie the Great has been Posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3875694#post3875694) Im sorry for the lack of story, but I wasn't inspired... At least not until I really read both your tactics and character sheets... Read the fight to find out. Please use the Comments and Concerns (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=268511) thread for any ... er.. Comments and Concerns...
Magagumo 07-05-04, 11:09 AM	I don't think he means making a cohort, I think he means making a krenshar/griffon/etc. character, correct? If so, I would say probably not.. as I believe the designers meant for such creatures to be avaliable from Leadership, but felt they might not fit well as PCs. I'd leave it to the Elders on this one, as Int isn't an exact correlation (Griffon- 5 Int- 10th lvl cohort only/ Displacer Beast- 5 Int- 10th lvl char)
TaggIIV 07-05-04, 11:10 AM	Is Savage Species allowed here? edit: was thinking of a frost giant, but with removed abilities and HD so the ECL is feasible. Someone who knows SS and such says that its legal, but wants to know if it would be allowed here.. I already have a strong hunch of 'no' but thought it would be worth asking. ;)
Jindl 07-05-04, 11:23 AM	According to the MM, the (Cohort) means that "although these creatures may be problematic as PC's, they make good companions to a character who has taken the Leadership feat." (MM, pg. 311, Glossary, Level Adjustment) It doesn't say they can't be PC races, it just warns the DM that they may be problematic (most likely due to the low Int scores). I wouldn't mind opening the door to krenshars, griffons, etc. And the rules don't seem to state that "(cohort)" creatures are barred from being PC's, so I guess it would be okay. What do the other Elder's think? -Jindl @TaggIIV - go with your hunch ;)
Magagumo 07-05-04, 11:26 AM	Sry, I think Savage Species makes people nervous, in that it is decidedly not Core (though perhaps balanced) and the the philosophy of this COliseum is to utilize sources that exist in the SRD alone. Sry, no SS here.
TaggIIV 07-05-04, 12:05 PM	Darn. *back to drawing board* Is anyone a duelist? I figure its actually a pretty good PrC for a fighter/wizard... since you have the high Int to get bonus to AC, plus you don't need to wear armor so no spell failure %. And, with bonus feats from fighter, prereqs don't take necessarily that long. If for example you have like fighter 5/wizard 2 would be the quickest, or for even levels an even 4/4. [pointless babble]Ah, I overloooked the fact skills prereq would have to be cross-class. But level 8 still works... unless you splash rogue or somphin.. one level of rogue would be decent, but then BAB problems.. so two levels of rogue maybe, and that covers all prereq skills. Hm Rogue2/Fighter4/Wizard2 - 8 levels as well.. now of course XP penalty... if favored class is fighter no penalty, I believe since rogue and wizard are equal but that would soon fall away. Meh, even fighter/wizard would probably come out better than throwing rogue in... [/pointless babble]
Magagumo 07-05-04, 12:31 PM	Actually... soulknives qualify v. quickly for Duelist *innocent whistling*
Beldin 07-05-04, 01:04 PM	a question: does Aemon qualify for the arcane archer class? His assasin class would grand him spells, but he is too stupid to understand that...?
Jindl 07-05-04, 01:15 PM	Buy a headband of intellect +2. -Jindl
Jindl 07-05-04, 01:34 PM	@Aramil - After Market_Share demonstrated the importance of flight and ranged attacks, don't you think Ernie should get a bow or a potion: fly or something? -Jindl
Magagumo 07-05-04, 01:54 PM	Assassin to get arcane archer.. I like it :)
Battousai2005 07-05-04, 02:28 PM	Ok, question. If a creature is polymorphed, they cannot encant spells, correct?
Jindl 07-05-04, 02:34 PM	The new form needs to be able to satisfy whatever spell components are required. If the spell has verbal components, the new form must be capable of speech. If the spell has somatic components, the new form must have digits capable of fine manipulaton (a dragon's claw = yes, a griffon's claw = no). If the spell has material components, then the new form must be able to wear the spell component pouch (which is resized per the rules of polymorph). If the new form can satisfy the spell components, then the caster can cast that spell while polymorphed. -Jindl
Battousai2005 07-05-04, 02:55 PM	@Jindl: My reason is this fight. Zephin vs. Heinrich (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=775) is up. Enjoy!
Druid Roxors 07-05-04, 03:03 PM	Yep, one cannot expect to win without a means of flight or ranged attack at mid levels.
Jindl 07-05-04, 03:59 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 @Jindl: My reason is this fight. Zephin vs. Heinrich (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=775) is up. Enjoy! @Batt - check the comments thread.
TaggIIV 07-05-04, 04:13 PM	Posted a new gladiator. Hope there aren't (many) errors. Also, I'd like to reactivate my pitlord status if possible, set at (one).
Caterane 07-05-04, 07:31 PM	Hey did anyone read my Ixidor/Harvester story on the Roleplay thread!? Not? :mad: I hope you read this one. Took me A LOT of time to write! The Shadowbeast (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3879650#post3879650) Enjoy!!!!!!!
Druid Roxors 07-05-04, 07:42 PM	Lucy: (near Lillith), 118/118 hp; greater magic fang+1 (all), greater magic fang+2 (bite), longstrider, wildshape (dire bat), animal growth, protection from fire (120), cats grace, bears endurance, bulls strength, resist acid 30, protection from lightning (120), produce flame (10) 0.0
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-04, 08:23 PM	Hey Cat, killer....totally killer. Really KILLER! @HATZINGER: how's the Brock Fight going? It's late monday and this is the second week in a row he'll be screwed out of his fight. just curious -ToK
Hatzinger 07-05-04, 08:40 PM	i am posting it now, ToK.
kattattack22 07-05-04, 08:52 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Hey did anyone read my Ixidor/Harvester story on the Roleplay thread!? Not? :mad: I hope you read this one. Took me A LOT of time to write! The Shadowbeast (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3879650#post3879650) Enjoy!!!!!!! Yes, I did read your Ixidor/Harvester story it explains much about the Harvester. I also read the Shadowbeast and enjoyed immensely. It was well worth the wait.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-04, 10:10 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger i am posting it now, ToK. Thx Hatzinger. But a note on the red-ink for my mount, Brock has Handle Animal +11 and can train it himself. That's why the skills are listed like that. I think you did a very good job despite tactics breaking down. I think that just goes to show you that both gladiators thought of counter-tactics for each other. Thx for posting on time. -ToK
Myrridin 07-05-04, 10:16 PM	Wow, I'm beginning to get sick of the Phantom Mount pre-buff. It seems that if you're a wizard you use it because it gives you an unlimited choice of what to do on your first round. Amazing that it's that game changing. The middle obstacle does nothing when you have an opponent who's mount can single move 200'.
Jindl 07-06-04, 12:04 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Wow, I'm beginning to get sick of the Phantom Mount pre-buff. It seems that if you're a wizard you use it because it gives you an unlimited choice of what to do on your first round. Amazing that it's that game changing. The middle obstacle does nothing when you have an opponent who's mount can single move 200'. You did see my post on the Fight's of the Week thread, about how this relates to your character's fight? I've also posted some comments about Cat's fights, and Brock vs Delayar. -Jindl
Magagumo 07-06-04, 12:14 AM	On a compeltely different note, I notice that Corinthus is climbing the ranks of ye old tiers. And I noticed he has worked extensively with Spells, not melee-shaping/buffing (like Jindl). Now, this progress would suggest a probably path to Heirophant, but what's this? It appears that the class's requirements are 13+ ranks in Knowledge (religion), but this is not a class skill for druids. Nevertless, the class's abilities clearly note powers solely for druids, including high end powers (like transferring Wildshape uses). So I wonder, were Knowledge (nature) ranks meant to be an alternative option? Or was a hyper intelligent druid supposed to cross-class with cleric to gain the ranks (a suggestion not made in the description fo the prestige class). Because otherwise, druids have not a single prestige class in the DMG that is worthwhile, and are even excluded from the sole prestige class seemingly designed for them. I'm really curious about poeple's opinions, take a look for yourself, because I wonder if we should consider adding the side requirement.. otherwise, why bother naming druids at all in its text? Edit: They did not mention it in the errata.
Jindl 07-06-04, 12:16 AM	I thought they fixed that in the errata? -Jindl
Druid Roxors 07-06-04, 01:11 AM	It was errated for epic spellcasting. But it was not errated there...
LLMadCow 07-06-04, 01:41 AM	ATTENTION PITLORDS @Caterane, Jindl, Etc - I was at 11 Credits. Caterane took 12 and dropped me to -1. Someone (My guess is Jindl) gave returned 11, bringing me up to 10 (1 Got lost somewhere). Now that it has been agreed upon that Clio is the exception, I have had 12 taken away again, dropping me down to -2 credits. I would like to have my 1 credit back, unless there is a handling fee, in which case, it should go to Caterane for his effort and such in regard to the case with Clio. Thanks. PS - I need elder attention in regard to the issue with Greatclubs vs Clubs. It is very clear in my mind, and my arguement is sound. Remember to check my previous posts ... Now that I am thinking about it, I may just make a new thread for this arguement.
Hatzinger 07-06-04, 03:36 AM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Thx Hatzinger. But a note on the red-ink for my mount, Brock has Handle Animal +11 and can train it himself. That's why the skills are listed like that. I was under the impression that you can´t un-train animals, which would be needed to open new "trick-slots" on your warhorse.
Hatzinger 07-06-04, 09:33 AM	@ Jindl or Cat: I´d like to have *no* fight this weekend. ToK and Beldin: I am now editing the fight. Don´t worry if you see something strange in the next few hours.
Jindl 07-06-04, 09:41 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow ATTENTION PITLORDS @Caterane, Jindl, Etc - I was at 11 Credits. Caterane took 12 and dropped me to -1. Someone (My guess is Jindl) gave returned 11, bringing me up to 10 (1 Got lost somewhere). Now that it has been agreed upon that Clio is the exception, I have had 12 taken away again, dropping me down to -2 credits. I would like to have my 1 credit back, unless there is a handling fee, in which case, it should go to Caterane for his effort and such in regard to the case with Clio. Thanks. I thought you lost a credit due to the late fight penalty. However, if there is a mistake, I'll be happy to fix it. So let me know if that credit should be added back, or if it was correctly removed for the late fight 2 weeks ago. Also, now that your 2 week penalty is over, how many fights would you like to pitlord this week. -Jindl
Myrridin 07-06-04, 09:50 AM	I would like no fights this week, as I'll be out of town. I'll still ready my gladiators, and just pay the credit.
Jindl 07-06-04, 09:53 AM	@Battousai - I posted a pretty important error in the Zephin vs Heinrich fight on the Fights of the Week thread yesterday. Please respond. -Jindl
kedi 07-06-04, 10:23 AM	Hullo people, finally back from the creepy shadows of “School” and “Graduation” Fixed Attila’s wrongs, loaning 3 credits to incarnate the Veleius. I’d be happy to mod 3 matches, but 2 would be good too. Good to be back :)
Myrridin 07-06-04, 10:50 AM	Welcome back Kedi. Thanks for reminding me Jindl.
Battousai2005 07-06-04, 01:16 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Battousai - I posted a pretty important error in the Zephin vs Heinrich fight on the Fights of the Week thread yesterday. Please respond. -Jindl Yah. Check out the PHB under Phantasmal Steed. Its a little more ripped than you thought.
Irien 07-06-04, 01:22 PM	Note quite sure where random rules questions go, so I'm putting it here. A dwarven waraxe made out of adamantium would count as a One-handed metal-hafted weapon and have hardness 20 and hp. 26, yes? Thanks ;)
Jindl 07-06-04, 01:27 PM	No, dwarven waraxes and bastard swords are normally two-handed weapons. They can only be wielded one handed with special training. The hps for such weapons are based off of the two-handed hafted weapon and two-handed blade entries (respectively). The hardness 20 is correct. -Jindl
Myrridin 07-06-04, 01:47 PM	I just have to post a question about the Kelek character. If you look at his feat selection at 9th level: Feats: - scribe scroll (free wizard feat) - Skill focus: hide (1st lvl feat) - stealthy (human bonus feat) - two-weapon fighting (3rd lvl character feat) - weapon finesse (1st figher bonus feat) - combat expertise (6th lvl feat) - ability focus: death attack (+2 DC, 9th lvl feat) It's one thing. Then look at the current feat set up at 13th level: Feats: - scribe scroll (free wizard feat) - Skill focus: UMD (1st lvl feat) - stealthy (human bonus feat) - magical aptitude (3rd lvl character feat) - weapon finesse (1st figher bonus feat) - improved initiative (6th lvl feat) - ability focus: death attack (+2 DC, 9th lvl feat) - craft wonderous item (12th level feat) Are we allowed to change that many feats? Especially because some of them were used, namely Skill Focus: Hide. If there were special circumstances, that's fine, it just sets a bad precedent for everyone else.
Irien 07-06-04, 02:46 PM	Originally posted by Jindl No, dwarven waraxes and bastard swords are normally two-handed weapons. <snip> -Jindl Ah, good point. Thanks
Magagumo 07-06-04, 03:09 PM	Welcome to rich2939, I see you've posted BrittleBear and wanted to comment- you'll want to list your method for point buy, if he is elderly (-6 physical, +3 mental, then I see you were originally: 10, 14, 14, 13, 18, 9, which does check out :)). It would just be good if you could list point buy and ability modifiers. Secondly, you only need to list half of your memorized spells (rounded down) so you can "X" 2 of each of your spells (helps you surprise you foe and all ;)) On a completely different note, Velo, Cresting, Ban, and Tori are all set to rdy, and I would like 2 fights preferably (if 3, then give me at least one low lvl one ;)). I have some other responsibilities coming up, including writing lesson plans, so I want to make sure I can balance work and play properly ;)
Irien 07-06-04, 03:18 PM	One more question (sorry, first time I've played a fighter) With Improved Trip, even though I've got a waraxe in one hand and shield in the other, I can still make a trip attack unarmed (since waraxe does not say that it can be used to trip) by stucking out my foot or something, right? Just want to be sure I'm not wasting a feat. Thanks again
Magagumo 07-06-04, 03:50 PM	Hmm... not entirely sure on that one. I know if you go light shield (or buckler) you're hand can still be used to hold items (therefore, you could then use the hand to trip you foe as well). It states that you must make an unarmed melee attack, which could concievably be knees/feet as well as fists. I'd say you would be fine with your hands full.
Hatzinger 07-06-04, 04:16 PM	I posted a new map proposition in the map thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3886901#post3886901) I am proposing this map because it gets rid of the typical win-ini=win-fight situations that we all know. What do you think?
Caterane 07-06-04, 04:20 PM	@all (and especially Hatzinger): Please read the introduction at the top of the MAPS thread BEFORE posting a map. Though Hatzes Map is nice it has not been approved in any way. I have closed the Maps thread for that reason. If you want to post a map send it to me first. It will most likely be approved but still, I want to see it first. This thread is the first step to a possible new standard map, one for each roster section (low-level, mid-level, high-level, pre-epic level). Cat @Hatze: Approved :rolleyes:
Jindl 07-06-04, 04:21 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger I posted a new map proposition in the map thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3886901#post3886901) I am proposing this map because it gets rid of the typical win-ini=win-fight situations that we all know. What do you think? While it looks to have its advantages, I think it benefits the medium/small sized characters too much. A large creature would have an extremely difficult time manuevering on this map. @Cat - What you mean to say is that "We" (the GM's) will decide whether its approved, right? I'd would like to see the problem addressed above resolved before approving this map, though I do like the option for 4 starting positions. -Jindl
Hatzinger 07-06-04, 04:33 PM	Cat, i was posting the map there so that everyone could look at it and discuss it, not to get a credit or something like that. [EDIT:] Oops. Didn´t read the notification of the other thread. Jindl, i understand your point. I´ll exchange the map with one without the smaller walls.
Myrridin 07-06-04, 04:42 PM	I like that it does solve the "win init = win fight" problem. I have to say, that scenario takes a ton of fun out of the whole thing. When I know that if I don't win init it's pretty much over, *shrug* boring and frusturating.
Caterane 07-06-04, 05:05 PM	@Hatze: I know but I want to keep the thread clean. @Jindl: Of course @all: What about the 4 possible starting positions idea rolled randomly by the pitlord. I am currently trying to get Zedarak to the other side on round 1 and grapple (and I've found a solution :devil:). Thoughts?
Hatzinger 07-06-04, 05:12 PM	Sure, but did Zederak choose the right target location, too? :devil:
TaggIIV 07-06-04, 05:31 PM	I know it was covered somewhere, but can't seem to find it. Can someone lead me to the thread where the discussion on gaining irregular animal companions/mounts/familiars was? edit: another question: can apes wear armor? They resemble a humanoid, so I don't see why not. ^^
Magagumo 07-06-04, 06:36 PM	I believe apes do qualify under the humanoid category (esp. by them being "tall" w/ regards to speace/reach). They can also wield weapons ;)
TaggIIV 07-06-04, 06:45 PM	YES! :D:D Oh, wait, apes aren't proficient with weapons, though.. or armor. But horses can wear barding for example, so does that same rule apply to apes (being able to wear armor correctly, like barding, even without the feat)?
Magagumo 07-06-04, 06:59 PM	Well, you retain your proficiencies while wildshaped ;) As for a normal ape, I suppose barding could work, though I'm not sure if creatures not trained for war were supposed to wear it. I ahve no clue, honestly. Edit: Centaur is ECL 6, correct, so that would be 6-2= 4 levels x 3 creds per level= 12 credits to bring in. Stone Giant is 18/20, so 48-51 creds... and since its almost near the end of our span (fights up till 20th tier) I wouldn't recommend it ;) Half-Celestials add +4 to ECL on top of character, so 12 creds for base race.
Aramil Dunskar 07-06-04, 07:05 PM	Question for anyone willing to answer: What is the effective character level for a Stone Giant and a Centaur? According to this thing: Remember: ECL = HD (racial and class levels) + LA. I think the Centaur would be 6, and the Stone Giant would be 18, correct me if I am wrong. If this is correct how many credits would I need to become each of them? Thanks -AD (P.S. How would you do a Half-Celestial in terms of credits? Would it be a +5 ECL?)
Battousai2005 07-06-04, 09:09 PM	Question: Do we enforce multiclass restrictions. Monk and paladin not being able to further advance I mean.
El_Jaguaro 07-06-04, 09:10 PM	hi there. After hearing some people talk about it on the optimize boards, i thought i'd take a look at this stuff myself. How do i get my guy on the gladiators's thread? Is there a moderator that does that? Do i e-mail them? Either way, i cut/paste the start up character sheet and he should be ready to go. How long has this board been up?
Sindorin 07-06-04, 09:10 PM	Just wondering if someone could look at Tair Malek and see if he is okay to have that violation removed... @ Arstimis - If so, would you consider activating Olinad this week? If you need a cred or something I could lend you one.
Mercy 07-06-04, 09:14 PM	@Roster Keeper - Please re-activated Jo'Li and Dart.
Druid Roxors 07-06-04, 09:28 PM	Originally posted by El_Jaguaro hi there. After hearing some people talk about it on the optimize boards, i thought i'd take a look at this stuff myself. How do i get my guy on the gladiators's thread? Is there a moderator that does that? Do i e-mail them? Either way, i cut/paste the start up character sheet and he should be ready to go. How long has this board been up? Hi, and welcome to the CoCo. To have your character on the Roster just request it in this Thread. Jindl, Tellish of Ket or Caterane will be able to set your character ready. Make sure you read all the instructions on the fights thread. Specially about Items, Allies, and levels. Your character should be Level 2 with the standard equpment for that level (1k gold, I think)
Druid Roxors 07-06-04, 09:32 PM	I believe the CoCo is about to become 1 year old! Happy birthday CoCo!. (The first official fight occured the 27th of July of 2003)
Druid Roxors 07-06-04, 09:52 PM	@ El Jaguaro: I did a quick scan over your character. By no means a perfect search. Your stats seem correctly distributed, although not what I would recomend for what seems to be an eldritch knight build. I would lower my Wisdom and pump up my constitution. Just a friendly suggestion. Skills *seem fine. Feats are ok, I would suggest to replace improved counterspell because it is uselss as how you have no spells of higher level to use the feat with. I would recomend that you get it at level 3 or 6 perhaps and get a more useful feat for the mean time. Perhaps a "Spell Focus" feat or Item Creation. Your spellbook holds 3 extra spells. You get 3 at start, 3 for inteligence. The only way to aquire new spells (appart from leveling) is to buy the scroll and "Use it up" on the spellbook. Your longbow is not right. If you want it to include your strenght bonus you need to use a "Composite Longbow". Each Strenght rating above 0 costs 100 gp. So its 100 gp + 300 gp (exceptional) + 200 gp (2 Str) = 600gp. Thats all I found for now. Take a look on that and request activation. Good luck!
Druid Roxors 07-06-04, 09:54 PM	*Double Post*
SnarkHunter 07-06-04, 11:55 PM	I didn't get the chance to mention this before, but Hatz- I really like your new arena. I would suggest labeling each starting point (1,2,3,4) so that a DM could roll for starting location.
Hatzinger 07-07-04, 05:48 AM	Just call them 3, 6, 9 and 12 o' clock. Or count them clockwise. Thanks for the praise. :)
Myrridin 07-07-04, 08:35 AM	Battousai: Yes, we enforce the monk/paladin multiclassing stuff. That's why we have so many ex-Monk's running around. :) Can anyone chime in on the Kelek feat discrepancy that I noticed yesterday?
Dawnlord 07-07-04, 08:44 AM	I have question (great, isn't it?). Snipped from the roster: 0 MotherBast +++++|+++++|+++ <zero> 0 Market_Share +++++|+ <even> Is there a difference? (IMHO would both have 0 fights and not loose or gain a cred) I'm just wondering if I missed something.
Jindl 07-07-04, 10:24 AM	@Dawnlord - Well, <zero> means the pitlord will not run a fight. In MotherBast's case, if hypothetically, he were to activate Candy and have her do a monster fight (count's as 2 active PC's), then he would have to spend a credit instead of running a fight, because he listed <zero>. The <even> that Market_Share has is different. It means that he will run a fight if necessary to avoid losing a credit. If he was to activate both Sven Enno and Pale-Rider (2 active PC's), then he would be assigned a fight rather than losing a credit. Understand? -Jindl
Jindl 07-07-04, 10:25 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Can anyone chime in on the Kelek feat discrepancy that I noticed yesterday? I think it should be listed on the violations thread, because as you said, it is probably a violation. But, I would like to hear Tellish's side of it as well. -Jindl
Pitlords 07-07-04, 11:41 AM	The Roster has been updated. If your character has not been set to ready, it is probably because you have failed to put "Ready for 7 July 04" as the post subject. Please note that you have until 9 PM GMT today to edit your characters. Pairings will be later tonight. -Jindl
Aramil Dunskar 07-07-04, 12:00 PM	@Pitlord: Can you please answer my question, I just need simple confermation to see if those ECL's are correct, then I just need to figure out how many credit's I'll need to play each of them. Thanks -AD
Jindl 07-07-04, 12:15 PM	Originally posted by Aramil Dunskar @Pitlord: Can you please answer my question, I just need simple confermation to see if those ECL's are correct, then I just need to figure out how many credit's I'll need to play each of them. Thanks -AD Originally posted by Magagumo Well, you retain your proficiencies while wildshaped ;) As for a normal ape, I suppose barding could work, though I'm not sure if creatures not trained for war were supposed to wear it. I ahve no clue, honestly. Edit: Centaur is ECL 6, correct, so that would be 6-2= 4 levels x 3 creds per level= 12 credits to bring in. Stone Giant is 18/20, so 48-51 creds... and since its almost near the end of our span (fights up till 20th tier) I wouldn't recommend it ;) Half-Celestials add +4 to ECL on top of character, so 12 creds for base race. Mag's numbers are correct. -Jindl
Myrridin 07-07-04, 12:15 PM	Aramil: Look at Mag's response above your question. The formula is (ECL-2)x3=number of credits required to bring in a new character.
Battousai2005 07-07-04, 03:39 PM	Pitlords: I have Armanithil active. He is my only active character this week and I want no fights. I'm taking a sabbatical from modding for a while.
Druid Roxors 07-07-04, 03:44 PM	@ Cat: So you do not want to face Corinthus? :fight!:
Beldin 07-07-04, 04:09 PM	there are 18 lvl 13 characters! i want to see new Iron!!/Bilo!!/Bruno/Jindl/harv/skymoon...fight! And new stories about them! How long do we have to wait
Aramil Dunskar 07-07-04, 05:23 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Aramil: Look at Mag's response above your question. The formula is (ECL-2)x3=number of credits required to bring in a new character. Ah, thanks, I didn't see the edit. Alright well I'll shoot for the Half-Celestial first then Centaur. So now I just need to get 10 more credits... joy :rolleyes:
KerlanRayne 07-07-04, 05:26 PM	Level 4 is uneven and two of them have the "Didn't Fight" tag, If this means Cyric can't fight, please set Grym active to make Level 11 even. Only thing that's changed for Grym is he has a few less arrows. KerlanRayne
Aramil Dunskar 07-07-04, 05:39 PM	@Pitlord: I request that I fight a monster or something, since I just found out that my only opponent for my tier is temproarily retired....... I know this is a bit late, but I just found this out.... -AD
Caterane 07-07-04, 06:09 PM	@Druid: Huh? My characters are both active. Still hope Corinthus gets rolled out :D @Aramil: Pah! I need 30 credits! :p @Jindl: I do not want to mod the monster fight. Give me some cool pairings, melee/ranged characters prefered, and please no sneakers! Have a good story in mind. @Beldin: Me too. I'd suggest to reactivate the 13ths in 2 weeks. We will have 20 characters at that time so if some sit out we'll still have at least 16. Let's see how wins the run to level 17.
Druid Roxors 07-07-04, 06:45 PM	I was asking if you were going to respond at my challenge on the RP thread...
Jindl 07-07-04, 08:49 PM	@Sindorin - I sent you a PM about Lvl 6. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 07-07-04, 08:59 PM	So your uh....working on pairings right? right? <===is jonesing for his arena fix.
freemoody 07-07-04, 09:13 PM	Lillith and I are going to take a long break from the CoCo. That last fight with Arkin left a bad taste in my mouth. Hopefully I'll come visit again some day.
Pitlords 07-07-04, 10:54 PM	Pairings are Done (except for Lvl 8). 1. Tactics are due Friday. 2. Pitlords may begin running fights with tactics on Friday. 3. Pitlords may run fights with default tactics on Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. The level 8 pairings will occur after Tellish returns Brock to 8th level. -Jindl
Caterane 07-07-04, 11:04 PM	Originally posted by freemoody Lillith and I are going to take a long break from the CoCo. That last fight with Arkin left a bad taste in my mouth. Hopefully I'll come visit again some day. I hope it wasn't because of the fight?? I have the impression that no one was happy with that!? You, Jonah Black because of the death from massive damage roll (which I PMd her using the online roller), Katattack didn't seem too enthusiastic about it either even though he won. Did I do something wrong??? @Jindl: I need 2 fights for the story. If you do the 8ths, I'd like to have a second one if possible.
Jindl 07-07-04, 11:07 PM	@Magagumo - Since Tori is out for #PC's, would you like me to make Rhoar active to face her? I could assign the fight to Beldin. -Jindl Originally posted by Caterane @Jindl: I need 2 fights for the story. If you do the 8ths, I'd like to have a second one if possible. @Caterane - Okay, I'll give you one of the Lvl 8's and hold Beldin if Magagumo agrees (see above). -Jindl
Sindorin 07-07-04, 11:12 PM	@Jindl I hope i didn't respond to that PM too late, that fight will help me personally because it is against a creature instead of a character, it would be more realistic in respect to a game setting. And, most importantly, it will be fun! I hope i'm not too late!
Magagumo 07-07-04, 11:19 PM	Hmm, sounds good Jindl, i love facing massive non-casters ;). But seriously, that's cool, I was wondering when I'd get a chance :).
Druid Roxors 07-07-04, 11:19 PM	@ Cat: you can have my fight if you want. Im not really planing to bring a ECL>2 character anytime soon. I just enjoy runing them.
Jindl 07-07-04, 11:27 PM	@Sindorin - I got the message and made the pairing, bud. Please feel free to edit Tair Malek based upon my character. It's only fair since you allowed me to edit Bubo. @Mag - Cool, I'll get him ready (and assign Beldin to pitlord). Rhoar is ready now. He spent 1150 gp replacing some potions that were used in the last fight and getting one or two new ones. If you want to make a minor equipment adjustment for Tori that will be okay. @Druid - That shouldn't be necessary. I'm giving Cat one of the Lvl 8 fights. -Jindl
Pitlords 07-08-04, 06:52 AM	The Lvl 8 matches have been added. Please check the pairings. -Jindl
kattattack22 07-08-04, 09:24 AM	Originally posted by Caterane I hope it wasn't because of the fight?? I have the impression that no one was happy with that!? You, Jonah Black because of the death from massive damage roll (which I PMd her using the online roller), Katattack didn't seem too enthusiastic about it either even though he won. Did I do something wrong??? @Cat - What?! I loved the fight! Let me elaborate. It was very cool with the story that Arkin made friends with Grimlock. I also loved that Arkin was having visions. You followed his character very well in his decision to face the evil alone. I was actually worried when I read that Arkin was cornered and completely forgot my scroll of dimension door and laughed maniacally when I read Arkin teleported away. I have no problems with the fight. It is the BEST fight I have read for Arkin so far with LLMadCow's Sir Ghadeon story in Arkin vs. Aiki Auk a close second. In fact, I think I will read it again in case I missed anything that liked and didn't mention.
Caterane 07-08-04, 09:46 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ Cat: you can have my fight if you want. Im not really planing to bring a ECL>2 character anytime soon. I just enjoy runing them. Hm, a third one would be even better - infact I could even use five fights, or ten - but I'm asking too much here. I'd take it only if you REALLY don't mind. And thanks a lot for the offer!! Without Rayne giving me his fight the fight last week wouldn't have been possible. @Katattack: :)
Beldin 07-08-04, 10:16 AM	cat, if you wish you can have my fight. I could not run it before monday anyway
LLMadCow 07-08-04, 10:48 AM	@ALL - I will repost (In one long post) the entire set of posts that was Clio's metamorphisis, if people actually want to read it - just let me know. The original posts were removed and I haven't bothered replacing them...
Magagumo 07-08-04, 11:06 AM	I couldn't complain about Tori being a hideous mass of darkness ;) @Jindl Editing noted, I have not changed Tori's sheet but have noted my minor purchases on the fight's thread.
kedi 07-08-04, 12:28 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Pah! I need 30 credits! :p Is that something? I need 54 credits to bring a gray slaad. I'll get one hopefully next year ;)
Sindorin 07-08-04, 01:41 PM	Something has been bugging me. We see all of these crazy builds that require insane amounts of credits. Would those builds seriously ever be used in a real campaign? Isn't that what this place is for, to test what we would use in a campaign for possible tweaks and improvements? It almost seems to me like it is a contest to see who can spend the most credits to get the most outrageous build... Some of those builds do help though, because we get to test our builds against them as if they are an enemy encounter or something. But those builds tend to require 3-12 credits... Nowhere near the ridiculous numbers I see sprouting up. I mean no offense by this post, I just wanted to state that it seems we have a misunderstanding of the purpose of all of this.
Caterane 07-08-04, 01:45 PM	@Beldin: thanks a lot. @Jindl: please make the appropriate changes, or let me do it tomorow
Ethendril 07-08-04, 02:41 PM	Originally posted by Sindorin Something has been bugging me. We see all of these crazy builds that require insane amounts of credits. Would those builds seriously ever be used in a real campaign? Isn't that what this place is for, to test what we would use in a campaign for possible tweaks and improvements? It almost seems to me like it is a contest to see who can spend the most credits to get the most outrageous build... Some of those builds do help though, because we get to test our builds against them as if they are an enemy encounter or something. But those builds tend to require 3-12 credits... Nowhere near the ridiculous numbers I see sprouting up. I mean no offense by this post, I just wanted to state that it seems we have a misunderstanding of the purpose of all of this. You're right that no one is ever going to play some of these characters in a campaign. I think that some have gone beyond "testing builds" to just gaining some advantage, if possible, here in the arena. This doesn't bother me, though, because I look at it as having my character face the type of monsters I might see him face in a campaign. Furthermore, having played three characters with a level adjustment, I don't think they are overpowered. Most of them are a challenge to play. If someone wants to save up 30+ credits to have a character that can only play through a third of the fights here, then retire, that's fine with me.
Jindl 07-08-04, 03:31 PM	I have also told many players of the difficulty in using ECL characters. It is really a disadvantage to have reduced HD. Arstimis's troglodyte proved the point very well. As did Donkey, who lost his first 3 matches. Even Zedarak proves the point, as he has lost 2 of his first 3 fights. ECL creatures are extremely challenging to play successfully. Whether they are low ECL like Akordia or high ECL like Donkey, they have a hard time at first. They can become quite powerful as they develop, but it is really tough when they begin. I just don't think many players understand this. -Jindl
Caterane 07-08-04, 03:39 PM	First of all, Zedarak has the "Caterane Curse" upon him. He rolled a 3 on his save vs baleful polymorph (a 4 would have saved), and when he got rid of it, he rolled another 3 vs the second one. And Kiri with her perm.invisibility is no ordinary gladiator. So much for his losses. Then, I am not here to test builds but to have fun. I like creating a character, develop new tactics, and see him fight. No more, no less. We've already seen most of the L+0 or +1 builds so I want to create something new which in turn costs credits. Ixidor is my favorite character because he has so many cool abilities, and my new upcoming 30 credsits character will have even more. That's fun to play, and that is all. For example, it's far more fun to play a real lich then pretend to be one (Vaarkalikax). It's more fun to play a demon than to pretend to be one. Do you think I would've made the Harvester human if there would've been a better option? Course not. So, I'm glad to have the opportunity to play exotic monters. Another point: you said you will never be able to play a minotaur or ghost in your campaign but isn't that a perfect opportunity to play it here then?
Sindorin 07-08-04, 03:57 PM	That's true that people can be here to have fun, after all, it would be silly to get on here with builds and NOT want to have fun... I'm having a great time getting to know this game. I don't think it's much of a leap of faith to say that none of us would be here if we didn't have fun. It's true that we can play it here if we wouldn't ever get to play it elsewhere... I guess my original confusion was drawn from the concept of building a character from the ground up, devising tactics, etc... the fact that ECL characters are difficult to play is probably evened out by the 'bonus' of skipping four or five levels when you're starting out. With myself having little experience at all of this, it is sometimes frustrating for me to go about this business with everyone else knowing more and knowing what to do. I figure that is why it was me that there were so many credits flying around, there I was sitting there trying to figure out a basic character and trying to make it work while all of this cool stuff is being talked about and I'm like "heh?" Thanks guys for the "wise wise words." :angel:
Aramil Dunskar 07-08-04, 10:16 PM	Originally posted by Caterane [B@Aramil: Pah! I need 30 credits! :p[/B] lol, for what? -AD
SnarkHunter 07-08-04, 11:03 PM	It's probably better that we don't know.
Hatzinger 07-09-04, 05:14 AM	And i´d have to have 21 credits to try out my caster-killing character "der maechtige Kikitik". So i´ll prolly never get to know if it is a good build. :( @Jindl or Caterane: My email-provider seems to have been boughed. My new address is Wolfgang.Hatzinger(at)lycos.de And yes, i have lost all my old mails and addresses. And no, i am not happy about it.
Jindl 07-09-04, 08:11 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger @Jindl or Caterane: My email-provider seems to have been boughed. My new address is Wolfgang.Hatzinger(at)lycos.de I've made the change on the Active Pitlord list. -Jindl
Hatzinger 07-09-04, 02:19 PM	Jindl or Cat: I created a new toon, called "Sunshine", who costs me 3 credits, i think. Please add her to the rooster. Unlike my previous characters, this one will stray of the core-class path and prolly take a prestige class.:eek::behold::eek:
Jindl 07-09-04, 03:36 PM	@Hatz - If Cat doesn't add it (and subtract the 3 creds) then I will on Monday. FYI: Female drow have Cleric as a favored class, not Wizard. -Jindl
Hatzinger 07-09-04, 03:43 PM	change made. i just decided to let him be a her because i saw this picture of a cool drow chick-in-chainmail. ...and my next char will prolly be a babe-with-broadsword. :angel:
Battousai2005 07-09-04, 05:18 PM	New character of my own, Shinigami (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3913541#post3913541) Please scan for errors.
MysticMonk2005 07-09-04, 08:05 PM	Teesh Drocer has been replaced with Krog. Use link below to scan for errors please.
^Rayne^ 07-09-04, 09:18 PM	JonahBlack and Magagumo, I just wanted to say to you here in this public forum how sorry I am for not completing your fight personally. I'm glad that if it had to be done it was at least left in Caterane's capable hands. So many things came up over that week that time with my computer became almost impossible. I felt terrible leaving your already late fight in disarray, but I thought I would at least give you a taste of what I had in store for the two of you as part of my apology. Very sorry my last fight here was incomplete and especially to the two of you for having to wait so long to have it run. Also I wanted to say thanks again to Caterane for jumping in and taking over. That was very kind of you and I hope people don't take for granted all the time and energy you devote to making this site work. Okay without farther ado here is a little taste of what I had prepared for Toreilison Wevlun Vs. Grimlock. Sorry again it was never finished. Prebattle: Grimlock comes into the arena looking exceptionally well groomed. Grimlock has been watching his mistress from afar and wishes to woo her with sweets and flowers. Being the large silent type he hopes his gifts please his curvatious crush. The flowers are a nasty looking wild variety that spawned from milkweed or something equally unpleasant and are clutched so tightly in his right hand that the stems have all broken and not a single flower is standing up any more. The decaying bouquet hangs over his mighty hand wilted and slightly brown dieing in the blistering heat rising from the arena floor. In his other hand he holds a once cute and cuddley white rabbit by its neck unaware that his gift has long sense passed and his treat of live rabbit meat is more a fleating gesture now. Torei looks at the large impressive speciman from twenty yards away and wonders what to make of this Orc. While certainly not as refined as she would prefer his green skin does make her feel at ease more so than the ugly pink flesh of most humanoids. She stares at her competition and wonders whether or not she should eat him when he lies helpless at her feet or take him as her conquered mate and slave. The thought is provoking if a bit amusing, certainly a slave wouldn’t be a bad thing to have but then a speciman as strong as this once fed upon could provide enough food to last her almost a year. Both thoughts make the evil pure-blood happy, and it is that thought that encourages her to make quick work of this orc. The sooner he is down the sooner she can decide what she wants to do! Initiative: Grimlock: 9roll + 3dex= 12 (Starting Postion: x-20/y0) Torei: 10roll + 4dex= 14 (Starting Position: x20/y0 Torei: Without a second to spare Torei takes off to her North and spots Grimlock with gifts in hand unmoving. She calls forth her innate powers and casts an entangle spell just South of Grimlock’s postion. Grimlock: Vines, weeds, and all sorts of plants grow around the orc trying to hold him to the ground. Immediately he knows that she isn’t ready to receive his gifts yet and it looks like he will have to fight after all. Longs since dropping the flowers and rabbit he found for her as he saw her walk away to her starting position, he has his shield and figurine of power ready to go in hand. He immediately tosses the figurine down and speaks the correct word to summon the Bronze Griffon. It immediately appears next to him and is almost entangled in the vines. Somehow it avoids the vines and manage to fly up into the air. With Grimlock’s command to attack Torei the Griffon rises 10’ and takes off toward Torei. Grimlock’s Reflex Save: 4roll + 7Reflex= 11 Fails to beat DC 13 of spell. Grimlock’s Strength Check: 6roll + 5str= 11 Fails to beat DC 20 Str check. Bronze Griffon’s Reflex Save= 15roll + 7Relex= 22 Success verses DC 13 spell. Round Info: Torei: Position x19/y-8, Entangle (ends after Rd 24) Grimlock: Position x–20/y0 Bronze Griffon: Position x–6/y-7/z2 (6 hours)
Magagumo 07-09-04, 10:50 PM	It's s'ok Rayne, I know how crazy life can at times :). I'm glad to see you're back (BTW, I saw Vryk in the Moathouse the other day, very amusing ;). Btw, the story certainly is an interesting one, I havn't decided how to handle the storyline properly yet (though Jonah has certainly intrigued me on this one). Needles to say, I will work to ensure at least a modicum of novelty, and to make it fit the twisted, black heart and mind that are so character of the Lady Viper :)
Jindl 07-10-04, 03:57 PM	Mag - Please see the Fights of the Week thread. -Jindl
Battousai2005 07-10-04, 05:17 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 New character of my own, Shinigami (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3913541#post3913541) Please scan for errors. Just hoping someone will scan...
Magagumo 07-10-04, 05:29 PM	Krog looked alright at first blush. Shingami's attacks are wrong, as his Base attack is listed as +0, not +1. His grapple should be one higher, as should his attack with the mw kunai. His fort save is also one too high (you have a con mod of +2 listed there). From my read, I would say he's going Shadowdancer/Assassin (Hidden if Batt wants it to remain a secret)
Battousai2005 07-10-04, 11:04 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Krog looked alright at first blush. Shingami's attacks are wrong, as his Base attack is listed as +0, not +1. His grapple should be one higher, as should his attack with the mw kunai. His fort save is also one too high (you have a con mod of +2 listed there). From my read, I would say he's going Shadowdancer/Assassin (Hidden if Batt wants it to remain a secret) Nice way to hide it, Mag;) Gotta modify that. He was originally going to be a Rouge/Monk with a higher con. Oh, well. Oh, and the prestige is slightly off.
Caterane 07-11-04, 12:01 AM	Dear Elders, four brandnew votes are waiting to be resolved in the Senate (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3374216#post3374216). Follow the rabbit...uh link - Cat
MysticMonk2005 07-11-04, 12:43 AM	0.0 :OMG!:OMG!:OMG!:OMG! PARD WON?!?!?! SOMETHING IS WRONG!! *pinches himself* This must be some paralel universe. The impossible has happened!! :eek: :eek: :mymy::mymy: NOOO MY PERFECT LOOSING RECORD!!!! :weep: :weep: ok, i'm over it ^_^
Dawnlord 07-11-04, 06:06 AM	Sildaris vs. BrittleBear posted ~12h ago. Sorry, I had to sleep.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 07-11-04, 03:50 PM	After next monday, I go into the army for half year. So, during that time I cannot pitlord nor play whit my char. So I ask that my char is put in special waiting list (so that he is not deleted away while I am gone).
Caterane 07-11-04, 05:18 PM	@ALL: I have finished all 3 of my fights, and put it into one story over 5 posts long (incl. tactics, rolls and sheets). I consider this one of the best stories I ever wrote and I've invested a ton of time into it while my friends went out on weekend and brought some chicks with them, so you know the sacrifice I made :) The only thing I ask you is that you take your time to read it. Thanks Cat The Deepstone Squad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3927784#post3927784)
Battousai2005 07-11-04, 05:30 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @ALL: I have finished all 3 of my fights, and put it into one story over 5 posts long (incl. tactics, rolls and sheets). I consider this one of the best stories I ever wrote and I've invested a ton of time into it while my friends went out on weekend and brought some chicks with them, so you know the sacrifice I made :) The only thing I ask you is that you take your time to read it. Thanks Cat The Deepstone Squad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3927784#post3927784) Sacrifice... Depends. 1) Were the girls hot? 2) How cold was it? 3) Were you going to a beach? If the ansawrs are yes, above 80, and yes, than, my friend, I consider you to have made a great and noble sacrifice. EDIT: NM. Read the story. Cat>:king: Me>:tiphat:
Magagumo 07-11-04, 06:06 PM	Just for Jindl, ToK, and Cat to know: I'm not going to be on the boards from this Friday to the 26th (two Mondays from now). If pairings are up by Thursday afternoon, I'd like Cresting and Ban'zanifal (not sure what result this week's fight is yet) to fight, losing one credit in the process. (I'm hoping Snark and others will handle any incidents that might occur with the running fo the fight). Thusly, I ask for no fights for this upcoming week, or the week thereafter.
Jindl 07-11-04, 06:24 PM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon After next monday, I go into the army for half year. So, during that time I cannot pitlord nor play whit my char. So I ask that my char is put in special waiting list (so that he is not deleted away while I am gone). I suggest making sure your Win-Loss record is correct on your character sheet. If your character is removed from the inactive list, he will still exist on the gladiators thread, there just won't be a link on the roster to his sheet. Good luck in the Army! -Jindl
Battousai2005 07-11-04, 07:25 PM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon After next monday, I go into the army for half year. So, during that time I cannot pitlord nor play whit my char. So I ask that my char is put in special waiting list (so that he is not deleted away while I am gone). Wow, the Army. Well, one more person I know in the armed forces. Jindl, off chance, are you making another ghost character? I was thinking of an incorporeal character myself, but I don't want to steal any ideas.
MysticMonk2005 07-12-04, 12:09 AM	@people in charge of FUS's the current fool has a wisdom of 8. Drahk has a wisdom of 6. Just to let you know. :P
Druid Roxors 07-12-04, 04:40 AM	Q: What happened to the thread about ride and handle animal that was posted here? It told about the correct way to handle any ride checks and movement with horses. It also said that any use of a mount or any other animal will use up a move action. Do any of you remember this thread or its contents?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-12-04, 07:07 AM	Originally posted by Caterane @ALL: I have finished all 3 of my fights, and put it into one story over 5 posts long (incl. tactics, rolls and sheets). I consider this one of the best stories I ever wrote and I've invested a ton of time into it while my friends went out on weekend and brought some chicks with them, so you know the sacrifice I made :) The only thing I ask you is that you take your time to read it. Thanks Cat The Deepstone Squad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3927784#post3927784) Sweet JESUS!!!! This is the absolute best story i've every seen. This should definately be the new "best story" in the FUS's. You have certainly out done yourself this time Cat. You really should consider a career in writing. I'm completely flabergasted. -ToK
Hatzinger 07-12-04, 07:10 AM	Druid, it´s in the Gladiators threat. Under Rules/Pitlords. Kazz, didn´t know that Finland still has the draft, too. Don´t get too accustomed to the drinking. ;)
Pittbull 07-12-04, 07:52 AM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Sweet JESUS!!!! This is the absolute best story i've every seen. This should definately be the new "best story" in the FUS's. You have certainly out done yourself this time Cat. You really should consider a career in writing. I'm completely flabergasted. -ToK Hasn't taken to the evining until I finished the story. WOW, Gave up my whole lunchbreak, but it was worth every second!! I would vote for extra credits to honor this amazing story. Perhaps we shall open an "The Deepstone Squad"-thread. A second and not the last time: THANK YOU CATERANE!!!!
Tellish_of_Ket 07-12-04, 09:05 AM	Hey, that's a great suggestion Pittbull. I'm all for awarding 2 extra credits (at least) for that. It really doesn't get much better. Maybe i'll talk Market_Share into bringing Spike out of retirement. hehe -ToK
Pittbull 07-12-04, 09:27 AM	Angosh: Yeah!! Deepstone Squad rulez!!!! Com', bring Spike over 'ere!
LLMadCow 07-12-04, 11:07 AM	@ALL - Please see THIS POST (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3931070#post3931070). For anyone willing to do the work, I am sure that MANY Pitlords neglected to roll the fort saves and take away gold from the mages who lost Familiars in battle. This would amount to quite a few wizards having quite a bit more gold than they should. I don't imagine it would take too long to post a list of what Pitlords need to roll what saves for the various characters and then have the results posted? Or perhaps just one person could be elected to make all of the rolls on a fight by fight basis and list the results for everyone. One nice final tally. :)
Battousai2005 07-12-04, 04:18 PM	Originally posted by LLMadCow @ALL - Please see THIS POST (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3931070#post3931070). For anyone willing to do the work, I am sure that MANY Pitlords neglected to roll the fort saves and take away gold from the mages who lost Familiars in battle. This would amount to quite a few wizards having quite a bit more gold than they should. I don't imagine it would take too long to post a list of what Pitlords need to roll what saves for the various characters and then have the results posted? Or perhaps just one person could be elected to make all of the rolls on a fight by fight basis and list the results for everyone. One nice final tally. :) Hmmm. i dunno. See, most mages either leave their familiars at home or make sure they don't die. I myself have never seen more than 2 actually involved in the fight (bat with blindsense). Also, I don't think many people actually try to hurt the familiar. I mean, why would you hurt the cute, fuzzy animal? :sad:
TaggIIV 07-12-04, 06:07 PM	The caster level for a standard potion is the minimum caster level needed to cast the spell (unless otherwise specified). If I wanted to buy a CL 3 Sanctuary potion, would it still cost 50gp like listed, or would it cost 300gp, the price of a Bear's Endurance potion (a minimum caster level 3 spell)?
MotherBast 07-12-04, 06:13 PM	Potions must be purchased at the CL and price listed in the DMG. You can't purchase a potion not listed therein. One of the reasons all high level melees need a hand of glory, since See Invis potions are not listed in the DMG, and therefore can't be purchased.
kedi 07-12-04, 06:24 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=190985&perpage=1&pagenumber=120 ba-wa.
Pitlords 07-12-04, 06:54 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast Potions must be purchased at the CL and price listed in the DMG. You can't purchase a potion not listed therein. One of the reasons all high level melees need a hand of glory, since See Invis potions are not listed in the DMG, and therefore can't be purchased. Correct. Although I wouldn't say all high level melees need a hand of glory. There are other ways to deal with invisible attackers without sacrificing your necklace slot for a hand of glory. -Jindl :( Oops, wrong account...
Pittbull 07-13-04, 05:45 AM	There is no casterlevel-check when using wands with higher spelllevels and casterlevels? That is the difference between scrolls and wands, beside the AoO's? For example: Caster level 1 wants to use a wand of dispel magic (casterlevel 10), he has the spell on his list, but no the required abillity-score. Is it possible? Thank you!!!!!!!!
Magagumo 07-13-04, 08:43 AM	Hmm, he'll need an Int, Wis, or Cha of 13 (I think). I believe you simply need the spell on a potential spelllist and a score to support it (I'm fairly sure a 1st wiz with an int o 10 and a Wis of 13 could pull this off, but don't quote me till you've heard from others).
Jindl 07-13-04, 10:01 AM	<shakes head at Mag> Negative, sir. The only prerequisite for using a wand is having the spell on your list, although most wands do have vocal and somatic components. Wands can be used regardless of your current spellcasting attribute. Scrolls require the minimum ability score, not wands. -Jindl
Pittbull 07-13-04, 10:16 AM	Thanks a lot! That's how I understood the rule.
Myrridin 07-13-04, 10:18 AM	Are scrolls subject to spell casting failure in armor? Also, I'm not sure if I'm correct, but if a spell has no somatic component, it's not effected by armor spell failure, correct? So if I stilled all of my spells, I could wear armor with no chance of failure?
Pittbull 07-13-04, 10:48 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin So if I stilled all of my spells, I could wear armor with no chance of failure? SRD says: If the spell lacks a somatic component, however, it can be cast with no chance of arcane spell failure. I think, that states that clear. :)
Jindl 07-13-04, 11:34 AM	Has anyone heard from LLMadCow or Druid Roxors? They have yet to post their fights for this week... -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 07-13-04, 11:47 AM	They've been posting a lot. So, they've been around. -ToK
Ethendril 07-13-04, 11:47 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Has anyone heard from LLMadCow or Druid Roxors? They have yet to post their fights for this week... -Jindl I'd especially like to know. These are both fights with my characters!
Myrridin 07-13-04, 12:01 PM	Originally posted by Pittbull SRD says: If the spell lacks a somatic component, however, it can be cast with no chance of arcane spell failure. I think, that states that clear. :) Interesting......I may be looking into some things for the future. :) ALL: I will be auditing the 13th level characters soon, in anticipation of their reactivation. Please make sure that you've listed all equipment used in past fights, as well as all current equipment on your character sheets.
Druid Roxors 07-13-04, 01:22 PM	Death Dealer Vs Dart (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3942095#post3942095) is up. I am sorry for the delay, but I cannot content with the boards working whenever they please. @ Pitbull. Yes, A wizard level 1 can use a staff of Meteorswarm or Dispel magic just as easy. (wands too, Wands are just like staffs, but costom staffs are not allowed in the CoCo).
Jindl 07-13-04, 01:29 PM	@Druid - Yes, due to problems with the boards, I was allowing extra time for the fights to be posted. Late penalties will not apply until 12 PM GMT tonight. (so hurry up LLMadCow!!) -Jindl
MadCowTemplate 07-13-04, 04:11 PM	LLMADCOW is out of commission, for now LL asked me to place notice that due to a medical emergency he will be unable to participate until further notice. That is all the information I received in text message. I don't believe he is in any mortal danger, as he did have the foresight and desire to send this message. In the mean time, I'm sure LL would appreciate the prayers of any who are so inclined. While I'm here, as for me I'm sorry I disappeared so abruptly especially at such an inconvenient time. I apologise for the gross oversight in the fight and my absence in its aftermath, of which I have only been told. Unfortuneately, I am currently still out of town and time.
Magagumo 07-13-04, 04:29 PM	Ok, couple of things: 1. Cresting is set to fight, and as soon as I hear from kat re: that 10th round, I will update Ban accordingly. 2. I would like to start collecting creds (tough with me out this week), so I will be accepting one fight on one condition: I get tactics by Thursday and it will be posted that evening. This way, I won't lose creds for Crest & Ban fighting. 3. I suppose with LL being out of commission (hope he feels better), Velo and Ivan is being postponed this week. This is fine with me if the fight is passed to someone else, just let me know who I should send tactics to. 4. Zorander is being retired, not due to the companion issue (though that quantifies a small part) but b/c I am growing tired of a character who depends entirely on low-dmg sniping to win. As I gather some more creds, however, you will see an evolution of the Brogaden line... I think that covers it for now :)
Caterane 07-13-04, 05:50 PM	I like the idea of CoCo Adventures like the one Myrridin just opened. This opens a new branch of the CoCo! I know there's already a board dedicated to Adventures, but the CoCo has some significant advantages. First of all, it is Core, and more importantly, you play with those you hang around here, those who you have come to know (opposed to annonym members of the RA board). If there are others who want to run a campaign here on the board, feel free to do so. I'm sure there won't be any shortage of players. I especially like the idea that you can play your gladiators in a campaign, and see how far they get with their charisma ;) Perhaps I'll run one myself one day where only gladiators on the roster may participate. Rayne's new team combat and Snark's iron man tournament are great additions aswell, though I myself won't participate in either (perhaps another time). Rock on guys! Great work! I love it! Cat
freemoody 07-13-04, 05:58 PM	I'm starting a new character (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3928761#post3928761) and plan to activate her by Wednesday but I need to clear something up first. She has a psycrystal and a Light Horse. Would the Psycrystal count as an ally? I'd only be using it to get a +3 to a skill with it's personality and I plan on using it's psionic focus when I get the Psycrystal Containment feat. If doing just that would use up my ally slot then that really sucks. It's not like I plan to change it into a giant monster with polymorph and have it kill my opponent, tho if I did it probably should take up my ally slot. So what does everyone think?
Magagumo 07-13-04, 06:05 PM	Despite being constructs, Psicrystals enable you to find foes (Sighted) and can later deliver powers by touch. They are simply psionic familiars, and should be treated as allies. Sorry to say, freemoody, but unless all familiars don't count as allies, psicrystals are performing the same function and should be regarded in the same manner. However, until you get the Psicrystal Containment feat, you can keep the crystal outside of the match, and it will still grant you the bonus to skills/saves, just like a normal familiar. By the time you get the feat, you might be rdy to ditch the horse anyways. They certainly are nice things to have.. hardy too with that hardness 8 and decent AC score.
freemoody 07-13-04, 06:44 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Despite being constructs, Psicrystals enable you to find foes (Sighted) and can later deliver powers by touch. They are simply psionic familiars, and should be treated as allies. Hmmmm.... What if I keep it in my pocket so it can't see, and never use it to deliver touch spells? Also, @ Jindl: I would like to Pitlord one fight every week if that is possible.
Magagumo 07-13-04, 07:03 PM	You might as well leave it outside fo the arena then- same effect except for the feat. I don't make the rules, I'm afraid I just restate and emphasize them. Do you that despertely need a horse at high lvls? Most of psionics is close range, and its likely to get cooked/eviscerated... Edit: Hi barrel!
barrel_master 07-13-04, 07:15 PM	I'm back... at least for a while... keep in mind thought that I'm on a sucky modem and as such I probably won't be on very often.
kattattack22 07-13-04, 07:22 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Ok, couple of things: 1. Cresting is set to fight, and as soon as I hear from kat re: that 10th round, I will update Ban accordingly. I posted a notice somewhere that I fixed the fight unless it still has problems. See below in white if you don't want to see the fight itself. Pard won, used 12 arrows. Ban'zanifal lost, used nothing.
Magagumo 07-13-04, 07:29 PM	Oh, I noticed kat, but if you look at Round 10, you state that Ban was "unable to find cover" because Bill attacked too quickly. You don't have a ride check listed for that round, so I'm not sure if Ban failed it (if so, then I gracious acknowledge Mystic's success) or what? After all, taking Cover is a reflexive action that can never be prevented (aside from killing the mount ;)) so I'm wondering how I was prevented from doing so (obviously, that round cost me the fight). If you wouldn't mind explaining that round, I'd appreciate it.
kattattack22 07-13-04, 07:58 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Oh, I noticed kat, but if you look at Round 10, you state that Ban was "unable to find cover" because Bill attacked too quickly. You don't have a ride check listed for that round, so I'm not sure if Ban failed it (if so, then I gracious acknowledge Mystic's success) or what? After all, taking Cover is a reflexive action that can never be prevented (aside from killing the mount ;)) so I'm wondering how I was prevented from doing so (obviously, that round cost me the fight). If you wouldn't mind explaining that round, I'd appreciate it. Nope, not at all. I rolled the ride check and it was either a 4 or 6 and Ban'zanifal failed it. That is why I wrote Bill attacked too quickly for flavor. In my zeal, I forgot to type it in. I can reroll it if you like since I goofed on that. EDIT: Arkin would also like to challenge Tori. Gotta take down the Committe one member at a time.
Battousai2005 07-13-04, 08:15 PM	@Pitlords: Please add Shigikami to the roster. He is my active character this week. Anyway, one fight this week will be nice.
Magagumo 07-13-04, 08:34 PM	@kat I can reroll it if you'd like Heavens no!! Mystic won that fight fair and square, and I don't want a changed roll to alter the outcome again, making more work for you and unfairly treating Mystic. (It's a horrible thing if that happens, aye Jindl? :P) No, I congratulate Mystic/Pard, and will gladly update Ban for this week (lousy Brain Lock Pearl *shakes fist* :))
kedi 07-13-04, 08:43 PM	nvm
kattattack22 07-13-04, 08:49 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo @kat Heavens no!! Mystic won that fight fair and square, and I don't want a changed roll to alter the outcome again, making more work for you and unfairly treating Mystic. (It's a horrible thing if that happens, aye Jindl? :P) No, I congratulate Mystic/Pard, and will gladly update Ban for this week (lousy Brain Lock Pearl *shakes fist* :)) Yeah, had that worked Ban'zanifal would have a much easier time of it. I went in and put the ride check in and fixed my two round 9's. What do you say to a little clash of Celestial Forces and The Committee? (just to clarify, I mean Tori vs. Arkin).
Magagumo 07-13-04, 08:51 PM	I'd love to, but I'm leaving Friday afternoon and will be away from a comp until the following Sunday, so I can only put Crest and Ban forward (I really want to get those two climbing up there, as you're well aware ;)).
kattattack22 07-13-04, 09:16 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo I'd love to, but I'm leaving Friday afternoon and will be away from a comp until the following Sunday, so I can only put Crest and Ban forward (I really want to get those two climbing up there, as you're well aware ;)). Darn, well maybe next week if Arkin loses again.
Druid Roxors 07-14-04, 12:28 AM	@ Elders: I request the Activation and Evaluation of Viciocelis Tharkan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3707816#post3707816) Perhaps for tomorrow's pairings?
Ashenai 07-14-04, 03:14 AM	I have a rules question. If I designate my familiar to deliver a touch spell (as per the familiar's level 3 "Deliver touch spells" ability), and the familiar attacks with the spell, would that break my Invisibility? In other words, would that count as me making the attack, or not? Here's the relevant part of the rules, from the SRD: Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.
Hatzinger 07-14-04, 04:47 AM	Awwwww.... My internet connection at home is not working. @elders: would it be ok to ready my heinrich for this wednesday? I haven´t updated the char sheet yet and can not do this from work. I would like to edit my sheet/send my sheet to the pitlord asap. (I´m gonna take a feat (spell focus nec.), upgrade my items +2 to items +4 and thats it.) [EDIT:] conn is working again. updating char now... @elders: please add sunshine to the rooster.
Beldin 07-14-04, 04:17 PM	he is a smart guy, isn't he?
Sindorin 07-14-04, 05:22 PM	@ Pitlords... I would like to return to active pitlord status at one fight per week please. Thank you kindly, Sindorin
Myrridin 07-14-04, 05:28 PM	Sildaris' tactics have been sent to Jindl to disperse to his pitlord for the week. If you're in doubt, check his first fight for appropriate tactics.
Druid Roxors 07-14-04, 05:29 PM	Viciocelis Tharkan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3707816#post3707816) is ready for these pairings with a revision of her equipment. Please add her to the roster.
Rabid Labrador 07-14-04, 05:56 PM	Cuul the Cruel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3944107#post3944107) is ready for battle... (I'm new here, I think I've read everything carefully enough. Hopefully I've got it all right on the character sheet.)
Sindorin 07-14-04, 09:39 PM	Do I have my days screwed up? Shouldn't we have pairings tonight? Shouldn't the characters have [OK] by their names if they are ready to fight this week? Are we fighting this week? Are we taking a break? What's going on? :sad:
Jindl 07-15-04, 12:30 AM	The roster will be updated an pairings will be done in the morning. Sorry for the delay. -Jindl
Pitlords 07-15-04, 10:59 AM	Okay, the Roster is updated (that took like 2 hours!!). Now, on to Pairings...
Pitlords 07-15-04, 12:49 PM	Pairings are done!! 1. Tactics are due Friday. 2. Pitlords may begin running fights with tactics on Friday. 3. Pitlords may run fights using default tactics on Saturday. 4. Fights are due Monday. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday. @Freemoody - You need to select your opponent from the two late edits at that level. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 07-15-04, 01:42 PM	THat was definately the last druid that I've faced. This class is a nobrainer. Even if all your tactics break down you can still just summon a storm to prevent ranged attacks and wildshape into something no melee gladiator can copy. I can think of NO OTHER strategy to beat Corinthus. If anyone else can give me an idea on how to beat a druid, please tell me. I wondered anyway why Corinthus didn't just wildshape and animl growth+bulls+some other stuff and summon the storm to force me into melee. That's unbalanced to the roof and it is no fun to me to be the loser before the match had started. Druid, no offense to you of course. If you like playing a druid, fine. I am just saying that it is a no brainer to play one. The reason why I didn't just wildshape and use a storm to force you into melee is because this druid I was building is focusing in Spellcasting only. And I did beat you with spells only, that little DR mistake with Ice storm had you dead on round 12.
SnarkHunter 07-15-04, 02:59 PM	Poor Evram, all alone. You know if you wanted Eth, you could finish your editing and we could have at it. Pretty please :cool:. Also I don't think I'll have time for a fight this weekend please reassign.
Beldin 07-15-04, 03:02 PM	@pitlords: I'd like to ask if you could reassign the fight to annother pitlord. I have two important tests on monday and have very little time to run the fight. I had left my pitlord status as "even", because i belived that i would not get a fight if i readyed just one of my gladiators. If reassigning is not possible, then i can run the fight; but not before late on monday. Thank you
Caterane 07-15-04, 03:03 PM	Give them to me then
Pittbull 07-15-04, 03:16 PM	@CAT&TELLISH: Did you get my e-mail?
Magagumo 07-15-04, 04:18 PM	@Pitlords Ty for your understanding re: fights. Sad to see Ban won't be fighting :(. I will get Velo's & Crest's tactics out posthaste.
freemoody 07-15-04, 05:05 PM	Neat, I get to choose my own opponent this week. Hmmmm. Xtonus or Viciocelis I'll choose the one with less Hit Points. Xtonus.
Pitlords 07-15-04, 05:10 PM	Okay. Freemoody has chosen Xtonus to be his opponent, and that change has been made to the roster. In the future, make sure your characters are edited on time, so that this situation does not occur again. Snarkhunter's fight has been reassigned to Caterane. I am reassigning Beldin's fight to Druid Roxors, since he had requested 2 fights and only received one (two weeks in a row). -Jindl
Sindorin 07-15-04, 05:18 PM	Bah, that was so stupid of me, all i did for both of my characters was change their statuses, and i had no idea it was past the deadline. As I tend to say on here when I do something stupid... It was the Gnomes. I sincerely apologize and am grateful that at least one of my characters will be permitted to fight.
TaggIIV 07-15-04, 06:44 PM	Late editing? Under normal circumstances, we get until 9PM GMT to edit on Wednesday. I edited, to my calculations, about 20 mintues before this time. Now, additionally, since pairings were made a day light, I was under the impression we got an extra 24 hours to edit. Even though I shouldn't need the 24 hours, even though they're there, since my edit was in before the set 9PM GMT. Edit: ok i see my calculations were wrong and the edit was made 40 minutes after 9PM GMT. But regardless, since pairings were declared to be made 1 day late, it makes little to no sense to have the edit deadline the same as usual. Especially over 40 minutes, and on an edit that was simply fixing HP and an extra skill point which was pointed out in the Character Violations thread. Now I realize its too late to get Talon paired, but I'd like to recieve an asterisk at least rather than just miss a week over t his... Edit: Also, why in the hell am I on the inactive pitlord list? As far as I knew, I was active, and was set at <one> fight per week.
El_Jaguaro 07-16-04, 03:06 PM	The Jaguar looks to redeem herself after last weeks horrific showing. Tacitcs sent and good fight Cuul. I wish you luck. (bad luck) The Jag ps. I expect to see a link to the rolls this time. lol
Druid Roxors 07-16-04, 03:12 PM	El_Jaguaro use This (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=276488) to report tactics sent and similar stuff. Just to keep this thread focused (on nothing). :)
Ethendril 07-16-04, 03:26 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Poor Evram, all alone. You know if you wanted Eth, you could finish your editing and we could have at it. Pretty please :cool:. Also I don't think I'll have time for a fight this weekend please reassign. Snark: I'm so busy this week that the only fight I'm participating in is the one I already wrote tactics for last week (which was reassigned because it wasn't run). Sorry.
SnarkHunter 07-16-04, 10:10 PM	I weep for what might have been. Weep.
Caterane 07-17-04, 12:19 AM	My car - which I had exactly one day - has to be repaired and is by a mechanic. Why didn't anyone tell me that these are miles on the speedometer and not kilometres :rolleyes: Oh well, weekend @home. I weep for what might have been. Weep. @Hatze, Beldin, and Co: They don't sell Alk after 2 o'clock. Unbelievable!! :eek: @ALL: Is anyone interested in taking over the Brotherhood of the Arcane Guild? It seems that the Magister has fallen asleep. Everyone interested please write me a PM.
Hatzinger 07-17-04, 04:29 AM	Lol, Cat. What were you thinking. (miles) Of course not. Why would one assume that his populance consisted of grown-up and responsible people with the ability to persue their own way of happyness? Laughable! (beer)
Beldin 07-17-04, 06:01 AM	I heared they only drink water over there.:D You should have expected that when you left civilisation!:angel:
Caterane 07-17-04, 01:27 PM	This isn't funny Beldin! The car went out in the middle of nowhere and I had no Mobilephone! You can walk for miles without meeting anyone, which was exactly what happened to me. Took me 5 hours to get the damn Towing Truck!
Druid Roxors 07-17-04, 01:53 PM	If you had "Animal Messanger" you could have fared better than you did Cat. But, since you hate druids, its your fault. :P
Druid Roxors 07-17-04, 07:05 PM	Announcement The Iron Man/Woman/Thing challenge is still missing 1 (or two) more PCs and two Pitlords. Please check the first post for information and the roster.
Pitlords 07-17-04, 07:19 PM	Senate: The Senate has voted! These are the results for the current votes: - One-shot-Items refunded if fight lost? => No (4:1) - Should we ressurect allies for free? => No (3:2) - How to handle prememorized spells? => Reveil ALL (3:2) - Caster level cap for bought scrolls? => No (4:1) This means from next week on ALL SPELLS HAVE TO BE PREMEMORIZED! Iron Man: The Iron Man Tournament is starting soon. There is still one place for a gladiator! First one gets it!! Additionally, the tournament needs some volunteer pitlords. You get a credit as if you would have moderated a regular fight so if you want to see your BBEG on the roster, go credit hunting in the Iron Man Competition. Guildmaster: Is anyone interested in taking over the Brotherhood of the Arcane Guild? It seems that the Magister has fallen asleep. Everyone interested please write me a PM. Birthday: It's KerlanRayne's birthday today. I wish you the best! Hope you have a good day. - Cat
Druid Roxors 07-17-04, 07:22 PM	Pfft... I wished they all were "Yes".
Tellish_of_Ket 07-17-04, 08:06 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Announcement The Iron Man/Woman/Thing challenge is still missing 1 (or two) more PCs and two Pitlords. Please check the first post for information and the roster. I can pitlord on round one. -ToK
Caterane 07-17-04, 09:21 PM	If there's still a pitlord missing I can moderate another one of the Iron Tournament.
Druid Roxors 07-17-04, 09:47 PM	Great, then we need just one more PC.
Ashenai 07-18-04, 07:59 AM	Shinigami vs. Joker is up. Hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it. (Well, except for a bit near the end, where it got incredibly dull. You'll see.) Congratulations to the winner, and the loser should comfort himself with the fact that it was a very close fight.
Pitlords 07-18-04, 09:23 AM	The time has come!! The 13th level League will be reactivated the week after the next pairings. Please make sure your character is properly updated and ready to go for the final run to level 20! - Cat
Tellish_of_Ket 07-18-04, 01:43 PM	EMERGENCY! Well, maybe not exactly, but close. :) I'm looking for the link that one of the pitlords had to the CoCo arena that was all drawn out. I think it was Hatzinger, but not sure. I know i couldn't get to the initial link...kept saying 404 error or something like that. If anyone has the link to the full map that i can copy onto my pc, that'd be much appreciated. I'd like to start using it for fights i pitlord. -ToK
Caterane 07-18-04, 02:01 PM	It can be found in the Core Coliseum Maps (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=249853) thread! Speaking of such, you know you can earn credits for posting maps but please, contact me before posting it!
Tellish_of_Ket 07-18-04, 02:06 PM	Originally posted by Caterane It can be found in the Core Coliseum Maps (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=249853) thread! Speaking of such, you know you can earn credits for posting maps but please, contact me before posting it! Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids! :p I mean the link to the maps that are done with some kind of mapping software like map-maker, or one of the "cartographer" dnd softwares. -ToK
Caterane 07-18-04, 02:22 PM	Alright Tellish, if you don't want to follow the link that I gave you, I bring the map to you instead, ok? Here we go; right out of the CORE COLISEUM MAPS thread... http://www-nw.uni-regensburg.de/~.haw04647.7.stud.uni-regensburg.de/coco/arena1.jpg
Tellish_of_Ket 07-18-04, 04:21 PM	Thx, Cat. Which program did Hatz use to edit it to show the gladiator's movements from round to round? I have the full microsoft office suite but i don't have photoshop or anything. Any reccommendations? -ToK
Beldin 07-18-04, 04:28 PM	i believe he used photoshop.
kattattack22 07-18-04, 05:01 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Thx, Cat. Which program did Hatz use to edit it to show the gladiator's movements from round to round? I have the full microsoft office suite but i don't have photoshop or anything. Any reccommendations? -ToK MS Paint does an all right job for that as well.
Druid Roxors 07-18-04, 05:02 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Thx, Cat. Which program did Hatz use to edit it to show the gladiator's movements from round to round? I have the full microsoft office suite but i don't have photoshop or anything. Any reccommendations? -ToK Using the microsoft office suite you could paste the photo of the arena on Word. Then use the Autoshapes (->,<-) and use print-screen to get the shot.
Ashenai 07-18-04, 05:26 PM	I'm pretty sure Microsoft Paint would work just fine, though... I mean, you'd mostly just want to put arrows and small symbols on the map, and Paint is just dandy for that purpose. In fact, there was quite a bit of maneuvering in Shinigami vs. Joker. Let's see if I can add a map... er, does anyone know a place I can store images for linking?
SnarkHunter 07-18-04, 09:26 PM	http://www.photobucket.com/ I don't know if they'll let you post the really big images though. One of the nice things about photoshop is that its very easy to get the size of an image to just where you want it. *currently reviewing Iron Man Characters.* @Kerlan, you're Half Giant has spent 47,402 gp so far. @ToK: More of a comment-since you can always take 10 on the check for UMD you probably don't need skill focus. Not that I've immediatly noticed a superior feat you could take, but its a thought. To all current gladiators, I'm going to start the pairings at 12pm Thursday GMT, so finish all edits 24 hours before then. To everyone intrested: We have 1, yes 1 spot open for the Iron man tournament! Here's your chance to see if that 10th level monster you've been toying with would really be effective, and your chance to enter won't last long, so Check it out! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194192&perpage=30&pagenumber=1)
KerlanRayne 07-18-04, 11:49 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter @Kerlan, you're Half Giant has spent 47,402 gp so far. Limit is 49,000 gp right? KerlanRayne
SnarkHunter 07-19-04, 12:52 AM	That's correct yes.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-19-04, 01:04 AM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter @ToK: More of a comment-since you can always take 10 on the check for UMD you probably don't need skill focus. Not that I've immediatly noticed a superior feat you could take, but its a thought. Check it out! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194192&perpage=30&pagenumber=1) normally, you can't take 10 on umd and i couldn't take ten to activate a scroll or wand or something during combat. Skill mastery alllows me to use my scrolls and stuff without fail. I had crippling strike originally, but it really isn't that usefull. Also, it will help me to make consistent hide/ms checks and a pretty decent escape artist check as well if caught. Selection of skill mastery was more for consitency in performance more than anything else. Like my taking 10 on sleight of hand while invis'd beside opponents is pretty cool. :) -ToK
Hatzinger 07-19-04, 05:49 AM	Hi, ToK. I made the maps. I used Dungeon Crafter II for the tiles and photoshop for the fight-relevant things. Imho, the more ppl who use graphical tools for the arena, the better. :D But i recommend anyone who wants to make maps for their fights to keep an eye on file size. For the fights i posted, i had under 50KB-sizes, which still is uncomfortably large for the web, imo; which depends on your connection, of course. I have problems noticing when sizes get too large because i use dsl. Apart from this: happy mapping! [EDIT:] Jindl, Cat, is it possible to make the map threat and the map proposition threat sticking to the top? They are seldom used but we still might want to have them easily accessable.
Dawnlord 07-19-04, 07:54 AM	Attila(Kedi) vs Sunshine(Hatzinger) [ ECL 3 ] is done and posted. Oh... one thing: BAN THE FEATHER TOKEN WHIP FROM COCO!!http://members.aol.com/browrob549/emo/angry002.gif I HAD NO IDEA HOW TO RULE THAT CRAP !!http://members.aol.com/browrob549/emo/angry007.gif THE ITEM'S DESCRIPTION IS 100% NONSENSE !!http://members.aol.com/browrob549/emo/angry008.gif Thanks Waiting for responses from the gladiators....
Mercy 07-19-04, 08:06 AM	Please help! Can somebody take over running the Lillith (freemoody) vs. Hurtz (Tellish_of_Ket) fight. I'll forward tactics to the first pitlord to respond. thanks
Jindl 07-19-04, 08:15 AM	@Mercy - Send them to me, I'll take care of it. -Jindl
cellardweller 07-19-04, 08:20 AM	Originally posted by Magagumo Also, Bruno will be challenging Johan for his sheer audacity.... the committee does not hire. Mag, just a quick note to let you know I am still around (albeit working from internet cafe's) and Johan accepts the challenge.
Sindorin 07-19-04, 05:01 PM	BAN THE FEATHER TOKEN WHIP FROM COCO!! I HAD NO IDEA HOW TO RULE THAT CRAP !! THE ITEM'S DESCRIPTION IS 100% NONSENSE !! Yes, the feather token really is just random. I have no idea how that thing ever made it into CORE. I suppose I should have Tair Malek start crafting his Banana Tokens in the near future if that thing doesn't get the boot. Or shoe tokens. Those would be fun too... Who throws a shoe? Honestly!
Battousai2005 07-19-04, 05:06 PM	Hey all. So anyway, I was looking at the guilds and realized that the Black Knives no longer exist! So, because I need something to occupy my time, I am going to attempt another Assassin guild. However, I need at least 3 people to say they will join, otherwise, I'm not going to bother. The prereques, for the most part, are simply being non-good and having 5 or more ranks in hide and move silently. If anyone is interested, PM me. If not, oh well, it was worth a shot.
Caterane 07-19-04, 05:39 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Hey all. So anyway, I was looking at the guilds and realized that the Black Knives no longer exist! So, because I need something to occupy my time, I am going to attempt another Assassin guild. However, I need at least 3 people to say they will join, otherwise, I'm not going to bother. The prereques, for the most part, are simply being non-good and having 5 or more ranks in hide and move silently. If anyone is interested, PM me. If not, oh well, it was worth a shot. Why not taking over the Brotherhood of the Arcane? And why not putting your character sheet in your sig? I'm seriously considering enabling a limit to the signiture lines because of you Battousai :sad: :smirk:
Battousai2005 07-19-04, 05:45 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Why not taking over the Brotherhood of the Arcane? And why not putting your character sheet in your sig? I'm seriously considering enabling a limit to the signiture lines because of you Battousai :sad: :smirk: I'm not horribly interested in taking over the arcane order because, well, I am not a huge fan of Arcane casters. I always end up playing them in offline campaigns. Honestly, it get tireing. Sure, I'll put my characters in the sig. Nice addition, don't you think? :D :smirk: :angel:
Jindl 07-19-04, 06:03 PM	Not bad, Battousai. What do you think of mine (courtesy of Ethendril)?
Battousai2005 07-19-04, 06:05 PM	I posted something on that in the Character Violations thread.
Caterane 07-19-04, 06:10 PM	@Batt: :nonono: At least correct the spelling :rolleyes:
Battousai2005 07-19-04, 06:12 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Batt: :nonono: At least correct the spelling :rolleyes: What spelling?:angel: Actually, if you could help me with that... I suck at spelling. My teachers all hate me for it, but what can I do?
Caterane 07-19-04, 06:16 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 What spelling?:angel: Actually, if you could help me with that... I suck at spelling. My teachers all hate me for it, but what can I do? W..What? LOL!! Hey, YOU have USA written as location, not I HAAATZEEE!! FASS! PS: "Signature"
Battousai2005 07-19-04, 06:18 PM	Originally posted by Caterane W..What? LOL!! Hey, YOU have USA written as location, not I HAAATZEEE!! FASS! PS: "Signature" Hmmm... What do we know about people who live in the US? 1) We are lazy 2) We suck in school 3) Why do something when someone else can do it for you? Oh, BTW, that is a direct quote from you, your grace! :D :D :sad: ;)
Hatzinger 07-19-04, 06:35 PM	Growwwwwlllll... Wuff! Wuff!! Wuff!!! Growwwwlllll... Hawwww... *rend* *tear* :behold: :88E: :behold:
Battousai2005 07-19-04, 06:41 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger Growwwwwlllll... Wuff! Wuff!! Wuff!!! Growwwwlllll... Hawwww... *rend* *tear* :behold: :88E: :behold: "..." :confused: :confused: :confused: "..."
Hatzinger 07-19-04, 07:04 PM	Originally posted by Caterane HAAATZEEE!! FASS!
Caterane 07-19-04, 09:09 PM	Ladies and Gentlemen, another fight is finished, and I have to say 50000 letters is way not enough. Before you read the fight I want to say one thing. Does anyone remember the guy called Fluiddragon? He was a member back in the old times, perhaps even an Elder; can't remember. Anyway. Back then, he bade me to write a story for his character Gage, a sorcerer, and he wanted to see a sad turn in his happy perfect life, and so I should write him a story (not a fight). Well, I did write a story but Fluiddragon left the same week, never to return (and I can't even remember the reason for his leaving; think he lost once too often or something) This story slumbered on my harddisc all these months and now - with Octavian being a sorcerer too - I found a perfect opportunity to pull it out again. Enjoy Cat The Devil's Deal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3994916#post3994916)
kattattack22 07-20-04, 12:30 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Ladies and Gentlemen, another fight is finished, and I have to say 50000 letters is way not enough. Before you read the fight I want to say one thing. Does anyone remember the guy called Fluiddragon? He was a member back in the old times, perhaps even an Elder; can't remember. Anyway. Back then, he bade me to write a story for his character Gage, a sorcerer, and he wanted to see a sad turn in his happy perfect life, and so I should write him a story (not a fight). Well, I did write a story but Fluiddragon left the same week, never to return (and I can't even remember the reason for his leaving; think he lost once too often or something) This story slumbered on my harddisc all these months and now - with Octavian being a sorcerer too - I found a perfect opportunity to pull it out again. Enjoy Cat The Devil's Deal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3994916#post3994916) How awesome! Arkin is becoming quite messed up. His magic goes all wacky on him and now all this. If you haven't read it yet, you must. I really like the oracle take on Arkin and this mysterious NPC you introduced. I'm trying so hard not to give anything away.
Druid Roxors 07-20-04, 06:00 AM	The fight Jo'Li Vs Delayar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3998064#post3998064) has been posted. Please direct all comments and concerns to this week's Comments and Concerns (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=276488) Thread. The fight Bubo Vs Ernie will suffer a slight delay. I am sorry Jindl/Aramil.
Beldin 07-20-04, 07:11 AM	Klare Nacht, which is best translated from (celestial into common) as "Clear Night". :cool: Hey; I can speak celestial and didn't even know it!!!:angel:
Battousai2005 07-20-04, 02:00 PM	Soooooo. Now that Cat and I have stopped with the whole spelling issue, is there anyone who wants to give some feedback on the new assassin's guild? I really don't want to form it, have no one join, have Cat go "I told you so. You should have taken the Arcane Order," and then have it disbanded. Anyone at all? Like I said, the Prereques are this: 1)You must either: a)Have levels in the Assassin Prestige Class OR b) Have a +10 bonus to Hide and Move silently (not ranks, total bonus) and have 'assassinated' one character, i.e. one win. EDIT: @Pitlords: Kage and Shinigami will be active this week. One fight, please.
Myrridin 07-20-04, 02:53 PM	I'd like 1 fight this week please.
The Nighthawk 07-20-04, 03:00 PM	I may yet regret this. @Guildmaster: I've posted the newest guild, the Nighthawks and the stats in the Guild Regestry. Please note that as I've asked no one to post requests to join, it is not (hopefully) reflective of the members to join.
Druid Roxors 07-20-04, 04:20 PM	The fight Bubo Vs Ernie the Great (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4001716#post4001716) has been posted. I am sorry for the delay, I didn't think the fight would go that long. There were tactical erros on both sides, please direct all your comments to this weeks comments and concerns (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=276488) thread.
Ethendril 07-20-04, 04:29 PM	Since monster fights are impossible for me to participate in if I actually want my characters to fight, would anyone object if Vaarkalikax simply killed his own heavy warhorse (without a monster fight) and turned it into a skeleton (paying appropriate expenses, of course)?
Druid Roxors 07-20-04, 04:38 PM	Lol! Hey Ethendril, If you need a credit for your character to fight and create an undead, ill lend you one. Geez, I'll even run the fight if you wish. Just don't kill your poor mount :P (that if it dies, it wont be replaced...)
Ethendril 07-21-04, 12:28 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Lol! Hey Ethendril, If you need a credit for your character to fight and create an undead, ill lend you one. Geez, I'll even run the fight if you wish. Just don't kill your poor mount :P (that if it dies, it wont be replaced...) Thanks for the offer, Druid (although I don't think we can share credits here). I just think the monster fight policy is very restrictive (2 credits and sit out one week). This is more for flavor at this point, since I don't think the heavy warhorse as a skeleton will make much difference, but Vaarkalikax has always claimed to be a necromancer but has no real minions. He also already thinks his horse is undead. It would be so much cooler to ride an undead horse. Since I will probably never want to sit my character out and pay two credits for a monster fight (which is way too restrictive for those of us that don't run multiple fights every week), I just wondered if it would be alright for Vaarkalikax to kill his own horse and animate it. Also, Druid, if my horse dies as undead or not, it is still not replaced. Only class-based allies and leadership allies are replaced for free. Anyway, thanks for the offer (and I still may take you up on running the fight if I can't kill my horse). @all: Isn't there a better way to do the monster fights? Couldn't we pick a monster I know I could beat (say, even three or four ECL lower than me) and then just say I could defeat it? I could then pay the price for raising it and use the ally without the useless fight.
Druid Roxors 07-21-04, 03:03 AM	Or, you could always abuse the phantom steed... At level 8+ and a rod of extend (3000) you can have your very own shadow-born, hellish, dreaded, swift, imbalanced necro-mount. Or something like that :P
Hatzinger 07-21-04, 03:10 AM	...or you could still ride on the shoulders of a large/huge ex-giant zombie. :D Agreed, it is not the fastest mount, but it is undead. And i am sure that a worthy mage has enough cleaning spells to get the stains out of his robes, too.
Sindorin 07-21-04, 07:04 AM	I am too busy to pitlord a fight this week, but I will be able to next week. I hope this is okay... (I have company coming to town which I must entertain. No time. unless both sets of tactics are sent to me, say, by Thursday night. meh)
Beldin 07-21-04, 08:04 AM	@jindl: one fight for me this week, please;)
Hatzinger 07-21-04, 09:00 AM	@Jindl, maximum fights (up to three) for me, please.
Dawnlord 07-21-04, 09:04 AM	How is <max> calculated?
Hatzinger 07-21-04, 09:23 AM	hmmm... good question. Jindl, may i order a round of ale for ya? :D
Druid Roxors 07-21-04, 09:29 AM	@ Pitlords: I am about leave for my vacations. Although, I will probably be able to send tactics for two characters, I doubt I will have enough computer time to run a fight. Please, No fights for me this week.
Caterane 07-21-04, 10:16 AM	@ALL: 1) As you might have noticed, we now have a new sticky: CORE COLISEUM WORLD. It will soon be filled with all kinds of information, maps, records, links, and many more, beginning this weekend. The Core Colisuem World thread is a sticky for 2 reasons: first of all, it won't be bumped and second, it will function as a reference guide for pitlords who want to add some - now authentive - information in their fights or just need a hook, and for players who want to expand the background of their characters. This is a great thing and IMO the best way to promote the roleplaying part on this board - something I constantly try to encourage. 2) Then, the Gladiators thread has been renamed to GLADIATORS & FAQ. It also got links to the FAQ and the default sheet in Holy Mo's post. This is far more newbie friendly, so newcomers have an easier time finding the answers to their many questions. I also want to thank WizO Shadow and WizO Autumn for their great help (and with whom I work on a new project; you'll see), aswell as Ethendril, Kattattack, and LLMadCow who assisted me in the creation of the CoCo World thread. 3) Please don't forget to memorize ALL spells if you are a prepared caster. Every slot not reveiled will be considered used up so since wizards are underpowered anyway you don't want that to happen ;) On to a new week of blood and gore! :D - Cat
LLMadCow 07-21-04, 10:59 AM	@Magagumo, Irien, Market_Share & Ethendril - To each of you, I owe an apology. I am sorry for not running the fights sooner and for any hardships that I inflicted upon the four of you. I was taken to the hospital for a few days, but I am back now. @Pitlords - Yes, as some of you have notied, I am back and around. I will have to work off my two negative credits by doing misc side projects and such for now. My health is currently too chaotic and I do not want to have this happen again. So, above and beyond my suspension, please remove me from the active list. I will currently stick to tasks that have less of a deadline. And to those of you who wrote me, thanks, it is nice to be missed.
Pittbull 07-21-04, 12:46 PM	@ Tellish: As I asked before, I would like to know, if plan to post the whole fight of Zedarak vs. Angosh, or not. I just want to know, if can look forward to it. Thank you!
Battousai2005 07-21-04, 02:10 PM	@Pitlords: 1 fight and Shinigami and Kage are active this week. Oh, does anyone know the rules for applying poison to a natural weapon?
Rabid Labrador 07-21-04, 02:13 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 @Pitlords: 1 fight and Shinigami and Kage are active this week. Oh, does anyone know the rules for applying poison to a natural weapon? Just gargle it for a bit.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-21-04, 03:01 PM	Originally posted by Pittbull @ Tellish: As I asked before, I would like to know, if plan to post the whole fight of Zedarak vs. Angosh, or not. I just want to know, if can look forward to it. Thank you! I would have to start over from scratch. I don't have any of the info for the first 21 rounds, and only did the last 3'ish. So i really don't have anything to post. -ToK
Hatzinger 07-21-04, 04:17 PM	oh, and Jindl: please NO psionic fights for me. I do not want to occupy myself with such things.
Beldin 07-21-04, 04:21 PM	oh, and Jindl: please NO psionic fights for me, too Thankyou...
Caterane 07-21-04, 04:47 PM	@all: If you have any special requests, please send a PM to the PITLORDS account instead of posting it here. This is easier for the one who does the pairings, and it doesn't fill the tavern with the nonsense statements normally posted here :D Thanks Now I have a question: Brilliant energy weapons. They ignore any non-living material like armor and shields. For that reason, it's pretty clear to me that they cannot sunder any items. The question is now: can the be sundered?
Sindorin 07-21-04, 05:05 PM	Now I have a question: Brilliant energy weapons. They ignore any non-living material like armor and shields. For that reason, it's pretty clear to me that they cannot sunder any items. The question is now: can the be sundered? Well, I was always under the impression that a brilliant energy weapon was like a lightsaber. If you've ever seen any of the Star Wars movies, or Gundam, they have what seem to be such weapons. These weapons CONSTANTLY are breaking things, like doors, guns, droids, speeder bikes, other brilliant energy weapons, etc. Perhaps I'm wrong and they aren't really the same thing, perhaps the rules are interpreted differently here in our fine-print combat philosophy, but I think a brilliant energy weapon would ignore a lot of things to do with sundering as well.
Dawnlord 07-21-04, 05:16 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Now I have a question: Brilliant energy weapons. They ignore any non-living material like armor and shields. For that reason, it's pretty clear to me that they cannot sunder any items. The question is now: can the be sundered? As the description says that only it's significant portion is transformed into light, the rest - like the haft - can be destroyed and the weapon becomes useless. So a "yes they can" from me. But other way around you cannot sunder with it cause it can't harm objects.
SnarkHunter 07-21-04, 06:21 PM	I forgot to edit sheets but Rose and Evram are ready to go. Rose has everything she had last week, and her gold will be marked accordingly.
MysticMonk2005 07-21-04, 06:32 PM	Originally posted by Dawnlord As the description says that only it's significant portion is transformed into light, the rest - like the haft - can be destroyed and the weapon becomes useless. So a "yes they can" from me. But other way around you cannot sunder with it cause it can't harm objects. What about swords? It would be pretty hard to sunder a hilt that is being held. Pard has bought a Pegasus, but i forgot to list it other then under expenditures.
LLMadCow 07-21-04, 09:55 PM	Stormrider Valentine was retired, rather quickly, when I self edited for problems and came to the sudden realization that he was illegal and should not have fought last week. In his place is Mr. Big and he is legal. Completely. However, I may have edited past the deadline, but he is ready to go. So, please let me know. And in the future, can people be sure to post the 'No more edits announcement'?
Jindl 07-21-04, 11:50 PM	@All - I am greatly disheartened by the status of things in the CoCo, and by the multitude of harsh and negative comments directed towards me. As a result, I am no longer going to be as active as I have been here. I have long carried the majority of the burden of running this place (updating the roster, doing pairings, accounting for credits, etc., etc., etc.) while the other GM's had less time consuming responsibilites. That situation is now going to be reversed. Caterane and Tellish can decide between the two of them who wants to handle pairings and running the pitlords account on the weekdays. I'm on weekends from now on. -Jindl
LLMadCow 07-22-04, 12:10 AM	@Jindl - I may have made the occassional comment, but like I have room to talk? If I had serious issues, I woul've bailed a while back. Caterane - Won't sell his soul. :devil: LLMadCow - Won't stay healthy. :weep: Jindl - Won't read minds. :confused: There are many others. Too little time to get into it all, but if given enough time, I think we could dedicate an entire thread to praising and punishing each Pitlord in the arena. Relax.
Caterane 07-22-04, 01:42 AM	Originally posted by Jindl @All - I am greatly disheartened by the status of things in the CoCo, and by the multitude of harsh and negative comments directed towards me. As a result, I am no longer going to be as active as I have been here. I have long carried the majority of the burden of running this place (updating the roster, doing pairings, accounting for credits, etc., etc., etc.) while the other GM's had less time consuming responsibilites. That situation is now going to be reversed. Caterane and Tellish can decide between the two of them who wants to handle pairings and running the pitlords account on the weekdays. I'm on weekends from now on. -Jindl I just came home (1:30 AM) and read this message. I have to get up early and work all day so I can't do pairings. And you're telling me now that you're not going to do the pairings?? Man, this is between you and me, so don't let the CoCo and its members suffer! Had I know this on tuesday I could've adepted but now its a bit late to announce it, don't you think? I've written a PM to Tellish of Ket and hope he has time to do the pairings, else I fear we have to postpone it. Cat PS: The comments about you don't come without reason and you exactly know why. And Jindl, the three things you've listed have been the only things you did around here. If you reach 25% of all GM deeds here that'd be much for you. And as I said, let's take this discussion away from this board.
Druid Roxors 07-22-04, 01:54 AM	If this were my last day on the boards I would create a poll asking if you dislike a certain individual. (un)Fortunately, that day is not today. - No characters active for me this week - No Fights for me this week Until further notice. Edit: I am not talking about Jindl
kedi 07-22-04, 03:10 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow There are many others. Too little time to get into it all, but if given enough time, I think we could dedicate an entire thread to praising and punishing each Pitlord in the arena. Relax. Kedi - Won't post a flawless battle :rolleyes: I dunno whatis going on Jindl, but it'll be hell if you do stop pitlording. While all other pitlords are muscles of CoCo, you were the spine. Do not go. However, if you insist on going, thanks for everything you've done so far, you had a great responsibility and you took it well. :)
kedi 07-22-04, 04:13 AM	I've always thought that the default sheet wasn't so user friendly and was a bit dry so taking it as reference, I made up a new sheet, hope you guys like it. ------------------------- Standard Character Sheet: You'll have to comply with this sheet for what concerns all the informations and their positions; you may do any other changes, like adding colors and so on. Everything Italic can be deleted. The Title line is an important thing: it allows GMs to be fast when updating the roster, so be sure to fill in the info requested. Please keep the subtitles bold and underlined: it helps Pitlords with finding the informations. Post subject line: name - ready for (date) - challenges /accepts challenge / ECL It's important that you add these info on the title, else you risk to see your pc not OKed for the next pairings or the challenge not set. The ECL is important in case you bump your pc or if you are a Pitlords who paid to have an ECL>2 pc. Errors in any of these could make the pc lose next fight. Post body: Click Quote, then delete all is not needed. Important notice: dms will copy the courier part of the sheet in the fights, the rest is there for fun. You can chose another font than courier, but the subtitles shall be set to bold and underlined. Name Short character description, or favoured quote, or the like. Max. 3 lines. [Optional] [Insert Gender] [Insert Race] Sizecategory, ??'??" tall, ?? wt, ?? yrs old Colortype hair; colortype eyes; tonetype skin [Insert Alignment] Class: ??st lvl, .. Speaks: languagename, languagename, and languagename Notice that in [] are the conditional variables, like the Str when raging Str [AbilityScore], [Modifier], [points spent], [RacialBonuses/Penalties] [Misc] Dex [AbilityScore], [Modifier], [points spent], [RacialBonuses/Penalties] [Misc] Con [AbilityScore], [Modifier], [points spent], [RacialBonuses/Penalties] [Misc] Int [AbilityScore], [Modifier], [points spent], [RacialBonuses/Penalties] [Misc] Wis [AbilityScore], [Modifier], [points spent], [RacialBonuses/Penalties] [Misc] Cha [AbilityScore], [Modifier], [points spent], [RacialBonuses/Penalties] [Misc] Hit Points XX AC ?? (?dex, ?size, ?armor, ?shield, ?feat...), Touch ??, Flat ?? [Conditional modifiers like rage] Init + (?dex, ?feat) BAB +??; Grap +??(?str, ? feat...) [Conditional modifiers like rage] Speed ?? (base ??, light|medium|heavy load 0/33/66/100, armorcategory) Saves: Fort +?? (? +?con +?enh...) Refl +?? (? +?wis +?enh...) Will +?? (? +?con +?enh...) [List special bonuses here] Attacks: +Xx [InsertMeleeWeapon1 Name] [+Xx BAB, +Xx Str, +Xx misc] +Xx [InsertMeleeWeapon2 Name] [+Xx BAB, +Xx Str, +Xx misc] +Xx [InsertRangedWeapon1 Name] Xx ft [+Xx BAB, +Xx dex, +Xx misc] +Xx [InsertRangedWeapon2 Name] Xx ft [+Xx BAB, +Xx dex, +Xx misc] [list special bonuses here] Damages: [InsertMeleeWeapon1 Name]: dX [InsertMeleeWeapon2 Name]: dX [InsertRangedWeapon1 Name]: dX [InsertRangedWeapon2 Name]: dX [u]Skills (?? Points Class A, ?? cl B, ?? cl C): +?? Skillname (AbilityMod) [+ ranks, + mod, + synergy,+misc] +?? Listen (Wis) [+ ranks, + mod, + synergy,+misc] [Write Always] +?? Spot (Wis) [+ ranks, + mod, + synergy,+misc] [Write Always] Feats: Racial: [List Racial Bonuses Here] Class 1 [List Class Bonuses Here] Class 2 [List Class2 bonuses here, delete if not multiclassing] Regular Featname 1st Featname 3rd ... --delete this section unless wizard-- Spellbook: 0 DC ?? All cantrips 1 DC ?? Spell1, Spell2, Spell3 [--delete this section unless not a prepared spellcaster--] --b: bonus, write number; s: specialist; d: cleric domain-- Spells Memorized pre-fight (½x / ½y / ½z /..., of x=?+s / y=?+b+d+s / z=?+b+d+s /... per day): 0: spell 1, spell 2, spell 3 (s) 1: spell 1, spell 2 (d) [delete this section unless sorcerer or bard] Spells Per Day(??/??+2/??+1/??+1) 0 DC ?? Spell1, Spell2 1 DC ?? Spell1, Spell2 [delete this section unless psionic] PowerPoints: Xx Powers Known: 0 DC ?? Power 1, Power 2 1 DC ?? Power 2, Power 2 [DELETE UNUSED SECTIONS] [u]Buffs: [CheckFAQ Equipment: Weapon: [Xx gp, Xx lb] Weapon: [InsertWeaponname] [Xx gp, Xx lb] Weapon: [InsertWeaponname] [Xx gp, Xx lb] Armor: [InsertArmorname] [Xx gp, Xx lb] Shield: [InsertShieldname] [Xx gp, Xx lb] Potion: [InsertPotionname] [Xx gp, Xx lb] Potion: [InsertPotionname] [Xx gp, Xx lb] Arcane Scroll: [InsertScrollname] [CL, Xx gp, Xx lb] Divine Scroll: [InsertScrollname] [CL, Xx gp, Xx lb] Mount: [InsertMountname] [Xx gp, Weight carried] Misc: [InsertItemname] [Xx gp, Xx lb] Weight carried: ?? lb Mount weight carried: ?? lb Other Possessions: - gold remaining - smith tools - left at hom - Candy central poster of the collectors' edition :D Past Expenditures (tot. ?? gp): [list your used quipment here] [i]--use as check. Total Gold must be 1000@ lvl 2, 2700 @ lvl 3, 5400 @ lvl 4, 9k @ lvl 5, 13 k @ lvl 6 and so on-- Total Gold: ?? gp --Fight masters end the copy & paste here-- Default tactics: .... Spells Memorized (?+s / ?+bonus +d+s / ?+bonus+d+s): 0- 1- 2- Against meleers: ... Against spellcasters: ... Against ranged fighters: ... Optional: background, personality, manners, attitude, motivations, likes, desires, goals, aspirations, fears, habits, quirks, the way your PC looks when first encountered; Anything else. Fights results: You have to write here all the results of your pc and link the respective fights, as it helps the GMs in checking it for the validity of your sheet.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-22-04, 11:18 AM	Ok, i'll start working on the roster right now. Give me a few and it'll be ready. -ToK
LLMadCow 07-22-04, 11:29 AM	@Cat, Jindl & ToK - PMs for all!
Pitlords 07-22-04, 12:10 PM	Pairings are done. Although hastily so. If there are any errors and those with pc's that weren't marked as ready wish to fight where there are odd pc's please let me know and i'll add you asap to the roster. Notes: *Not sure about who all wanted to mod other than Hatzinger wanted max fights this week and that was accomodated. *Magnificate, Ashenai, Aramil, freemoody are pitlording fights this week as well. If anyone can't make it or i erroneous assigned you a fight the let me know so we can fill in the ranks quickly. ToK
Hatzinger 07-22-04, 12:20 PM	@ Kedi @ Ashenai @ ToK @ Market Share @ Jindl @ Kaigan ok, i got three fights; lots of work. tactics asap, please. whole weekend D&D´ing. Can´t say that i am not happy. *g*
Ethendril 07-22-04, 12:39 PM	It looks like Vaarkalikax rolled out, so I don't have any gladiator fighting this week. Would Pard like to fight Death Dealer, or Hurtz fight Dusk (only one can fight, since I can't pitlord this week)?
Aramil Dunskar 07-22-04, 12:50 PM	Just my luck, I get to fight another wizard :rolleyes: *Sigh* -AD
Tellish_of_Ket 07-22-04, 12:54 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril It looks like Vaarkalikax rolled out, so I don't have any gladiator fighting this week. Would Pard like to fight Death Dealer, or Hurtz fight Dusk (only one can fight, since I can't pitlord this week)? I will post Pard to fight Death Dealer. Consider it a done deal. -ToK
Hatzinger 07-22-04, 01:14 PM	@ Aramil: tactics for Sunshine sent.
kedi 07-22-04, 02:56 PM	@Hatzinger: Tactics sent via mail. @Ashenai: There's an error in my sheet; the longbow's damage is listed 1d8+3. It should be 1d8. I wanted to tell just in case if you were writing something on bow or etc.
Hatzinger 07-22-04, 03:31 PM	@ Kedi: received.
SnarkHunter 07-22-04, 04:05 PM	Hold up! Evram didn't fight last week. I hadn't edited him but he was ready for this week and I said so. Since he hadn't fought he gets priority for this week unless I'm sorely mistaken.
Hatzinger 07-22-04, 04:10 PM	@ all: is it legal in the COCO to have a character that is of older than normal age?
LLMadCow 07-22-04, 04:15 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger @ all: is it legal in the COCO to have a character that is of older than normal age? Yes, it is legal and fairly common. Older characters get penalties to Str, Dex and Con, but Bonus' to Int, Wis, and Cha.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-22-04, 04:42 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Hold up! Evram didn't fight last week. I hadn't edited him but he was ready for this week and I said so. Since he hadn't fought he gets priority for this week unless I'm sorely mistaken. You are not mistaken and i will rectify this asap. -ToK
Hatzinger 07-22-04, 04:50 PM	Originally posted by LLMadCow Yes, it is legal and fairly common. Damn! Had i known that earlier. Heinrich woul´ve been straight out of the retirement castle.
Pitlords 07-22-04, 04:53 PM	Level 6 Pard Longfellow, MysticMonk2005 vs Evram the Soulless, SnarkHunter: Caterane Level 10 Dusk, Talon of Bahamut, Ethendril vs Hurtz, Tellish_of_Ket: Snarkhunter Both pitlords and gladiators make notes of the changes. I didn't realize Evram was still active, my apolagies to Mystic and Ethendril. -ToK
SnarkHunter 07-22-04, 05:41 PM	Thanks much, I'll get tactics ready ASAP. But first a shower!
Ethendril 07-22-04, 05:50 PM	I guess I'll throw out those tactics vs. Pard and prepare for Hurtz. I'll get those tactics to you as soon as I can, Snark.
Caterane 07-23-04, 01:19 PM	:ayyyy!: After the fight, pittbull complained that casters are too strong in comparison to meleers. He grabbed Hatzinger by the neck and broke his nose. Hatzinger is only 5' tall in RL and has a -4 on his grapple check (beerbelly), so he was defeated. Pittbull wins. Hatzinger looses. Each used 3 [edit:5] potions of beer. LOL But it's true. Casters are still much stronger than a melee gladiator. Full memorization was only the first step, and as I said, it won't be enough (a challenge negates it anyway). I like to see the effects of full memorization first for a few weeks before proceeding to Phase 2.
Magagumo 07-23-04, 07:59 PM	Hey all! Hmm, so I should be all set for pitlording this next week :). I've gathered that the 13s are awake, so I think I'll be waking up Bruno now ;) I've decided not to collect creds for now, but would like Bruno, Tori, Ban, and Crest to fight if able, so three fights for this next week please.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-23-04, 09:00 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Hey all! Hmm, so I should be all set for pitlording this next week :). I've gathered that the 13s are awake, so I think I'll be waking up Bruno now ;) I've decided not to collect creds for now, but would like Bruno, Tori, Ban, and Crest to fight if able, so three fights for this next week please. Could i ask you a favor, since i have a memory like a sieve? Can you pm the Pitlords account and remind me. I see a lot of 13's haven't awaken from there deep slumber. Those of you who wish to race for the coveted 20th spot, need to make them ready. Also, anyone wishing to be a Pitlord for the 13's when they activate please speak now. This is a monumental task and not one to be taken lightly. So please brush up on all your rules knowledge to make the transition as error free as possible. Also a reminder for gladiators when writing their tactics is to maybe remind your pitlord of some of the rules that apply to your character/tactics/fight. At least that way they can review it and even quoting text to support your argument wouldn't hurt. -ToK
Caterane 07-23-04, 09:39 PM	Originally posted by freemoody: I won't be running the Ixidor vs. Arkin fight. Can someone else do it? I'll foward tactics. @ALL: Anyone willing to take over freemoodys fight?
kattattack22 07-23-04, 10:13 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @ALL: Anyone willing to take over freemoodys fight? I would since I don't have a fight this week, but I am little biased. Please, someone run the fight. I have Arkin's tactics saved and can resend them if necessary.
Rabid Labrador 07-23-04, 11:15 PM	I have a question regarding readied action triggers. In short, is an opponent's distance a valid trigger for a readied move action? Let's imagine the following scenario: Two opponents (we'll call them the fighter and the caster), are 90' apart and both aware of each other. The fighter has a speed of 30' and the caster has a speed of 60'. The fighter has initiative. The fighter readies a move action with a trigger of "if the opponent closes to 30'" and an action of "move next to him". The caster moves directly towards the fighter with the intent to cast a short ranged spell at the 30' mark (move action + standard action to cast). The move portion of the action triggers the fighter's readied action though, so the fighter takes his move action to move next to the caster before the spell is cast. The caster is now threatened by the fighter. The caster chooses to cast anyways, but now incurs an attack of opportunity from the fighter. Is this scenario correct by Core Coliseum standards?
Druid Roxors 07-23-04, 11:25 PM	Yes. That situation is completely legal. On your example, the fighter would move and then threaten the mage. Since the cast action is not even began, he can do something else. If he readied to move close and threaten upon casting, he would move and the caster would have no option but to continue casting, although he can choose to do so defensively. (as the spell has not begun casting)
Magagumo 07-24-04, 12:05 AM	Sure Tellish, Illl PM, though I'm just making the public statement that I am apparently going to absent come next Friday, making additional fights somewhat tricky. Thusly, unless I can snare an early Thursday tactic fight, I'll be sticking with Bruno (if 13s are waking up), with Ban'zanifal being an additional char/substitute.
Caterane 07-24-04, 12:51 AM	Another option would be that I take over your fight and you take this one!
Hatzinger 07-24-04, 03:12 PM	The dwarven horizon Walker versus the human Transmuter. The fight is posted.
LLMadCow 07-25-04, 01:55 AM	HEY EVERYBODY! I am seriously thinking of having Clio issue a challenge. What would everyone think of Clio challenging Zedarak?
Druid Roxors 07-25-04, 02:02 AM	Ill say it in a tongue that you might not recognize unless you are familiar with the latest of Blizzard's RTS. ALT + Q + Q or GGNORE Edit: Besides, mr Z already has a challenge pending. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4006693#post4006693)
Caterane 07-25-04, 03:58 AM	@Druid Roxor: Declined. I don't want to fight druids. They are the most boring class by far and I won't learn anything new besides the common used tactics by every druid player *yawns* Either Dire'something and animal growth buff buff buff then grapple or Storm plus Antilife shell = immune, then elemental damage. Even the companion is ALWAYS a dire bat *falls asleep* But good that you remind me of that. I have to challenge some other guys to prevent getting druidzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Hatzinger 07-25-04, 06:07 AM	hey, pitlords. we might want to make the senate threat sticky. i had to search a few minutes before i could confirm my opinion on the resurrect-allies topic.
Hatzinger 07-25-04, 10:54 AM	It´s posted now. Low-level melee versus mage fight. This fight has it all: survived Coup-de-Graces, mages defending their lives with arrows (used improvised as daggers!), incredible luck, devastated hopes; and finally the fight of destitution versus misery. :devil:
kedi 07-25-04, 11:44 AM	Duh, a lose.. :rolleyes: I checked the fight and I can say that it's well moded. Thanks Hat. :) @Jindl, ToK: I am trying to bring up some cool builds, but I need as much credits as possible. I'd like to pitlord 2 fights this week. After this week, max until I notice. No active PCs this week.
Druid Roxors 07-25-04, 01:04 PM	@ Cat: Coward :P I mean, What else can you expect? you will allways expect a Divinepowered-Righteousmighted-DivineFavored-MagicWeaponed cleric. Just as boring (or more). The difference is that druids seem to have more options. (for more info, see all the rest of my fights). Oh, and BTW. The dire bat is detailed on my sheet along with my dire wolf. I was planning to use the Dire wolf for another of my master tactics. (but not against Zedarak :P)
Caterane 07-25-04, 01:13 PM	Ha, from now on every druid with a direbat is possessed by a Shadowbeast! :D There are a lot of different clerics out there, or do you think that Johan and the Harvester are similar? What I'm saying is that I've fought druids before and it was always the same song. I know exactly what you're going to do against Zedarak and I've mentioned it above so nothing new here.
Ashenai 07-25-04, 01:18 PM	Sildaris vs. Domai is up. The brute and the master of trickery... who will survive?
LLMadCow 07-25-04, 01:47 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors I mean, What else can you expect? you will allways expect a Divinepowered-Righteousmighted-DivineFavored-MagicWeaponed cleric. Just as boring (or more). The difference is that druids seem to have more options. (for more info, see all the rest of my fights). Druid, my friend, you offend me. Cliodhna is no mere Cleric, she is a mighty Mystic Theurge! Since when do you think that a Druid has more options than a Mystic Theurge? True enough Cliodhna is limited to almost ALL OF THE DIVINE AND ARCANE MAGIC, but since when has that kept anyone down? With the new rules in place and some creative thinking, I am pretty sure that I can put her win/loss record back on track. I am willing to bet that with some concentrated effort and quick thinking Clio can take down Zedarak and do it with some flair; if she wanted to spend the resources on some major pre-buffs, I bet Clio could take out Zedarak in under 10 rounds. I have already issued my statements. (Just in, the challenge has been met, and so this arguement is a moot point, but watch and wait!)
Pitlords 07-25-04, 03:26 PM	@Tellish/Jindl: Did anyone of you delete Mo from the pitlords sig? I didn't touch it. If it wasn't one of you, he deleted it himself :weep: I also got kicked out a couple of times which normally happens if you log in from more than one location. The Pitlord and the Guild Master account have new tags btw, as does Tellish of Ket. - Cat
WizO_Shadow 07-25-04, 03:53 PM	Actually I did. Mo hasn't been GMing for a while now and when he comes back, he can be re-added. Last I heard from him was months ago and is busy due to life. Shadow
LLMadCow 07-25-04, 05:41 PM	100 LOSSES (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2700261#post2700261) = 33 Bumps. Epic Mr. Big coming right up.
Hatzinger 07-25-04, 06:09 PM	The fight has been posted. A Neanderthal raging Horizon Walker versus a fragile elvish Arcane Archer - who will win?
Caterane 07-25-04, 06:41 PM	I want to ask you once again if someone could take over Ixidor vs Arkin from freemoody! Wolfgang? Brian? Ray? Anyone? Or another offer was to give me your fight and you take Ix vs Ark instead.
LLMadCow 07-25-04, 06:49 PM	Sorry, bud. I am not allowed to run for another 2 weeks. And at this point, I would not have the time...
Hatzinger 07-25-04, 07:19 PM	Sorry, bud. No time on my side.
Market_Share 07-25-04, 08:21 PM	Originally posted by Caterane I want to ask you once again if someone could take over Ixidor vs Arkin from freemoody! Wolfgang? Brian? Ray? Anyone? Or another offer was to give me your fight and you take Ix vs Ark instead. If you give me 3 credits i'll whip it up. Just so long as i don't get penalized for not writing it out in a round by round with all stats and that mumbo-jumbo, send the tactics here. Via email or pm. Obviously i'll include sheets and tactics...but my story-board will rule. Otherwise i'll have to pass. SPIKE!
Battousai2005 07-25-04, 08:57 PM	Well, I wish I could have seen Shinigami's fight. Oh well. @Pitlords: I'll be gone the rest of the week. I don't want any characters active (If I set some by accedent ignore them) and will not be pitlording any fights. @Cat: HA! KAGE WON!!! TAKE THAT!!!:D
Market_Share 07-25-04, 09:36 PM	Ok, i read the FoTW thread about my polymorphing and dealing acid dmg. It's an extraordinary special attack. I also wanna take this time to point out other people errors when using the spell. YOU DO NOT GET TRAITS (ie, ooze, plant, fey etc) You need SHAPECHANGE for that, where you actually become the creature. People polymorphing into treants don't gain their DR 10/slashing, nor do they gain the plant traits. It's listed right there in special qualities. Hence you don't gain them. I've seen this time and time again, and it keeps irking me. ToK never said anything when he fought Ebelin when he polymorphed into a treant and became immunce to poison. That should not have happened. Of course, i never said anything, i just assumed he knew and never said anything himself. But we chatted recently about my polymorphing and set the record straight. YOU DO NOT GET TRAITS!!!!! SPIKE! **EDIT** and to set the record straight, you can't gain a fly speed greater than 120', or a land speed greater than 60' with it either. These are the limits set out by Alter Self. Sorry if it seemed like i cheated, but i only just made that realization myself.
Caterane 07-25-04, 10:37 PM	Wizard vs Cleric! A most interesting match. Even more so when both forget to prememorize all spells. Ernie the Great vs Tair Malek (7) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4044653#post4044653) Oh and another thing: "MR. SINDORIN, PLEASE REPORT BACK TO HOGWARTS AND FINISH YOUR STUDIES!!" - Prof. Dumbledoor @Mike: If Matt is ok with your style I'm for sure. I'll ask him. Btw, where did you find this great explanation that balances polymorph somewhat? I hope it is official!!
kattattack22 07-25-04, 10:42 PM	@Market_Share and Caterane - I am fine with it. I will email Arkin's tactics to Market_Share. Its a good thing I always save a copy to my computer.
Jindl 07-25-04, 10:42 PM	Originally posted by Market_Share YOU DO NOT GET TRAITS (ie, ooze, plant, fey etc) You need SHAPECHANGE for that, where you actually become the creature. People polymorphing into treants don't gain their DR 10/slashing, nor do they gain the plant traits. It's listed right there in special qualities. Hence you don't gain them. I've seen this time and time again, and it keeps irking me. ToK never said anything when he fought Ebelin when he polymorphed into a treant and became immunce to poison. That should not have happened. Of course, i never said anything, i just assumed he knew and never said anything himself. But we chatted recently about my polymorphing and set the record straight. YOU DO NOT GET TRAITS!!!!! Um, yes and no. You do get traits that are not extraordinary abilities. So, for a Treant, you do not get the DR 10/slashing, but you do gain the immunity to poison. The difference is that DR is an extraordinary ability (not gained), while poison immunity is a natural ability (and is gained). Please follow this link and read the article where Skip Williams outlines this in detail: Rules of the Game - Polymorphing (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a) -Jindl
Caterane 07-25-04, 10:44 PM	Skip Williams strikes again :nonono:
Druid Roxors 07-26-04, 12:58 AM	@ Cat: I would take the fight if I weren't at Houston, Tx. Once I return to mexico (Wednesday) I'd be glad to. Btw... I hope I can get a little extension to prepare my characters. Ill probably be able but just in case.
Ashenai 07-26-04, 03:31 AM	If there's no one else, I would also gladly run the fight... ...but I'm currently only qualified to run level 4 fights. If you feel that having me run a fight so far above my rank is an acceptable option, I think I could do a good job. If not, that's cool too :)
Pittbull 07-26-04, 03:54 AM	@Elders: Has there been a decission whether feats like knock down (divene!) are allowed in the arena or not. Since they are in the SRD they are core, or aren't tey? If "knock down" is allowed, is there any errata in the use combined with improved trip? Here are the discriptions: KNOCK-DOWN [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15. Benefit: Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target. IMPROVED TRIP [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise. Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent. If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt. Normal: Without this feat, you provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. Special: At 6th level, a monk may select Improved Trip as a bonus feat, even if she does not have the prerequisites. A fighter may select Improved Trip as one of his fighter bonus feats. If these two feats are allowed to combine, you get two attacks out of one if deal more than 10 points and make a successfull trip-attack.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-26-04, 04:49 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Um, yes and no. You do get traits that are not extraordinary abilities. So, for a Treant, you do not get the DR 10/slashing, but you do gain the immunity to poison. The difference is that DR is an extraordinary ability (not gained), while poison immunity is a natural ability (and is gained). Please follow this link and read the article where Skip Williams outlines this in detail: Rules of the Game - Polymorphing (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a) -Jindl Well, i read the link have to concurr with Cat. Skip strikes again. He seriously contradicts himself. Certain creature traits, such as plant, oozes and stuff are clearly listed in their respective MM entries as Special Qualities and thus shouldn't be gained. Oh well. It's official, and it's Skip, so i guess a 4th level spell that's almost as good as a 9th seems fine and dandy then. @Jindl: But the limits set by Alter Self for movement (which MS pointed out to me) should still apply when polymorphing, shouldn't they? @Market- 3 crd's for a fight? Uuuum no. LOL Otherwise people would be doing this everyweek. Saying they can't run fights, have a friend do it and gain 3 bonus credits. Nice try though. @Cellar: that's a huge amounts of reserved gladiator space there boy. lol...you building an army or something? lol @Pittbull: no errata needed. It's clearly written that it's the Knockdown feat doing the tripping, not the imp trip. Imp trip is just a prerequisite for the knockdown feat. Besides that, i haven't heard anything about using The Divine part of the SRD into CoCo yet. -ToK
Pittbull 07-26-04, 05:07 AM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket @Pittbull: no errata needed. It's clearly written that it's the Knockdown feat doing the tripping, not the imp trip. Imp trip is just a prerequisite for the knockdown feat. Besides that, i haven't heard anything about using The Divine part of the SRD into CoCo yet. -ToK Yes, but this is exactly my question: Is it allowed to take the feat?
Jindl 07-26-04, 08:14 AM	@Tellish - Yes, the movement limits should still apply (really only applicable for dragon forms.) @Pittbull - There was some discussion regarding adding the divine portion of the SRD. The end result was that there was still some 3.0 material spread throughout. So it was decided not to include it. We may look at it again once WoTC gets that portion fully converted to 3.5. So those feats are not available. -Jindl
Pittbull 07-26-04, 10:24 AM	:sad: , but thanks!
Caterane 07-26-04, 11:57 AM	@Jindl: Which 3.0 stuff are you refering to? Knockdown seems pretty updated to me. Now that the 13ths come alive we should give that a second thought so that these gladiators may take the feats. And if there's 3.0 stuff then why not make a selected assimilation?
Sindorin 07-26-04, 12:01 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Oh and another thing: "MR. SINDORIN, PLEASE REPORT BACK TO HOGWARTS AND FINISH YOUR STUDIES!!" - Prof. Dumbledoor Sorry coach, I used them earlier that day! :) I guess you're basically telling me that I don't know **** about this game. You're right.
Caterane 07-26-04, 12:06 PM	:D Hey Sindorin, Jindl plans to do a FAQ section for common made mistakes, and Tellish wants to give some "How to pitlord" lessons. That may help you to avoid future mistakes, and we don't want to see someone lose because of this.
Sindorin 07-26-04, 03:00 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Hey Sindorin, Jindl plans to do a FAQ section for common made mistakes, and Tellish wants to give some "How to pitlord" lessons. That may help you to avoid future mistakes, and we don't want to see someone lose because of this. It wasn't really a mistake, it is just a total lack of experience on my part. Also, it was just me not being as observant as I really could be, I don't usually have time to catch up on every thread here in COCO. I don't have time to sit there and do D&D stuff half of the day, if not a quarter. Usually I pop on here, write whatever tactics I need to, post once or twice where i feel I can contribute (which isn't that often, and why I am enjoying trying to take the Brotherhood somewhere) and then I have to go do something else. In all honesty, I'm in the wrong place. BUT... it's fun, so there's no reason for me to just up and leave. So far in two and a half months of observing and participating here, I have come to notice that you guys really screw people over with certain interpretations that are different from others. I simply get a different interpretation out of some of the rules that I read in this stuff and it all ends up being wrong. It is BY NO MEANS completely meaningless, in fact it helps me a great deal. It's a step by step process, learning this game, where once I have learned the basic boo boos of writing tactics, I finally sat down for this past week's fight and I TOOK MY TIME. The step by step process persists in that I made errors even then! The full memorization simply got in the way for this week, I hadn't realized we were doing that until it was past the editing deadline. I am here to have fun, and I am here to learn. I am doing both, however it is human nature to get frustrated when things change whilst trying to learn. Tair will be back next week :smirk: . That fight was EXPENSIVE on my part having used all those scrolls... oh well, he can craft some more this time around... Also, what penalties would Tair incur for his familiar getting wasted?
Aramil Dunskar 07-26-04, 03:02 PM	Just wondering, how much would it cost to buy a half-celestial war-horse for a mount? Or for that matter would I be able to add that templet to my mount for a certain price? Since I am thinking that it would be a good investment for Ernie. -AD
Caterane 07-26-04, 03:36 PM	Originally posted by Sindorin I am here to have fun, and I am here to learn. I am doing both, however it is human nature to get frustrated when things change whilst trying to learn. Tair will be back next week :smirk: There is no better place to learn the rules than here. I am trying to think about a way to advertise new rules so that everyone notices a change. Any ideas? And you would've won the fight with all spells memorized. You are a wizard, he's a fighter. No way to lose this.
Aramil Dunskar 07-26-04, 03:45 PM	Originally posted by Caterane There is no better place to learn the rules than here. I am trying to think about a way to advertise new rules so that everyone notices a change. Any ideas? And you would've won the fight with all spells memorized. You are a wizard, he's a fighter. No way to lose this. Sadly this is very true, so feel better Sin..... :) *Sigh* If only I could find a way that I could be able to beat wizards who fly around...... hopefully someone could answer my question above so that I might be able to in the future. -AD
MotherBast 07-26-04, 04:00 PM	Aramil: Unfortunatly, it is not possible to buy a mount without a listed price in one of the core books, so since Half-xxx mounts are not listed, they are not available. Sorry.
Aramil Dunskar 07-26-04, 04:21 PM	Drat, well on to my next question, is it possible to buy advanced mounts? Like instead of buying a pegasus at 4 HD can we buy one at 8 HD for more money? -AD
MotherBast 07-26-04, 07:36 PM	also a no. Not only do 8HD pegasi not have a listed price in the MM, but the CoCo forbids advanced creatures altogether.
Aramil Dunskar 07-26-04, 08:34 PM	*Sighs* Ok, well then I'll hunt around for a good flying companion for Ernie, thanks agian :D -AD
Jindl 07-26-04, 08:47 PM	@AD - The best way to get a flying mount is to use Leadership. Leadership does allow for advanced creatures (like an 8 HD pegasus) not to mention you can customize the cohort pretty well. It is without a doubt the best way to gain a flying mount, short of being a paladin. -Jindl
Caterane 07-26-04, 09:53 PM	...you mean being a druid! @all: Please go to the Advertisment thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4053462#post4053462) and read the purple post I just wrote. This is an important thing and I would like to see as many members as possible participate in it. Please read it and respond!! Thanks Cat
Tellish_of_Ket 07-26-04, 11:32 PM	Ok, i did some major house cleaning on all the riff-raff that were hanging around the active gladiators. Many hadn't been touched since early July. Also, we have 3 new gladiators at level 2 waiting for opponents. I've decided to test two of the most hated and weakest gladiators in the CoCo. The pure fighter and the Sorcerer. One more ECL 2 gladiator and it makes it even. Also, there are still some 13's inactive. With the amount of posts we've made about 13's being paired up for the 28th, i'm assuming those that are still inactive do not wish to fight next week and will be promptly shuffled to the inactive list until they notify the Pitlords that they wish to fight. Remember also with this weekend being a long weekend, plus the boards are going down for maintenance, means it's a two week pairing. Tactics are due Monday Aug 2nd, and fights are due to be run (completed and scrutinized) by the following Sunday the 8th. Pairings will return to normal on August 11th. So those that do not wish to fight over the long-weekend can just mark their characters for Aug 11th and walk a way for a bit. -ToK
Sindorin 07-27-04, 01:48 AM	Originally posted by Caterane There is no better place to learn the rules than here. I am trying to think about a way to advertise new rules so that everyone notices a change. Any ideas? And you would've won the fight with all spells memorized. You are a wizard, he's a fighter. No way to lose this. Yep, that's why they are memorized NOW. Some people, like me, just miss things. It is our mistakes that push us farther than successful attempts at pushing ourselves. I just want everyone to know that I was by no means angered by all of this. Well, actually, I was, but it was directed at myself for missing the obvious note that was in the pairings for the week. Oh well... It was the gnomes. :rolleyes:
Druid Roxors 07-27-04, 03:12 AM	Important rules regarding Polymorph and its overpoweredness on this week's Comments and Concerns Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4055144#post4055144)
Market_Share 07-27-04, 12:27 PM	Howdy All, Well, i have a hugely important question myself. If someone gets a "permanent, heightened symbol of death" upon their shield, does it still go away after the match once an opponent looks at it, or is it re-usable from match to match? Just curious is all. *<snickers>* :) SPIKE!
Caterane 07-27-04, 02:20 PM	Originally posted by Market_Share Howdy All, Well, i have a hugely important question myself. If someone gets a "permanent, heightened symbol of death" upon their shield, does it still go away after the match once an opponent looks at it, or is it re-usable from match to match? Just curious is all. *<snickers>* :) SPIKE! SRD: "Once triggered the symbol lasts for 10min/lvl or until it has affected 150 hp, whichever comes first." Of course, Skip Williams may have ruled that it's a 1st level spell now with unlimited duration. Wouldn't be surprised. :rolleyes:
Market_Share 07-27-04, 02:37 PM	Originally posted by Caterane SRD: "Once triggered the symbol lasts for 10min/lvl or until it has affected 150 hp, whichever comes first." Of course, Skip Williams may have ruled that it's a 1st level spell now with unlimited duration. Wouldn't be surprised. :rolleyes: Actually that's wrong. But thanks for trying to answer my question. I found the answer on my own. Originally Printed in the PHB page. 290. Reprinted here without permission for your convenience "Symbol of Death can be made permanent with a permanency spell. A permanent symbol of death that is disabled or that has affected it's maximum number of hit points becomes inactive for 10 minutes, then can be triggered again as normal." SPIKE!
Jindl 07-27-04, 04:05 PM	FYI: Rhoar is level 11 now, regardless of whether Hatz reviews the fight or not (either he won or he bumped). @Hatz - Hey, where's that review of the fight? Even Kaigan said you should fix the mistakes...
Magagumo 07-27-04, 04:21 PM	So confused :P
Pitlords 07-27-04, 04:27 PM	Editing: No more editing of characters after 9 PM GMT on Wednesday. Last i checked we are still Tuesday. At least that's what my calendar says. :smirk: Go ahead and edit away. You still have a full day. There are 10 level 13's that are still inactive. Would be nice to get a few more for some true blood and guts. -ToK
Ethendril 07-27-04, 04:29 PM	Beldin: Please see the Roleplay thread.
Jindl 07-27-04, 04:55 PM	@Aramil - Monster fights exist solely for the purpose of gaining allies. However, in order to seek an ally through a monster fight, the gladiator must be able to gain the ally using either handle animal or animate dead. Spike, for example, has a +23 Handle Animal check, making it possible for him to train a Roc. Thus he can hunt a Roc as a monster fight this week. The Harvester has the ability to cast animate dead. Thus he can hunt a creature to kill/animate as a monster fight. Ernie has no ranks in handle animal and is only a 4th level cleric (and cannot cast animate dead), so there is no way he can do a monster fight. I stand by my suggestion that Leadership is the way to go to get a good flying mount. Ernie gets a feat at his next level, perhaps he can take leadership and get a flying mount then? If he had a Cha of 10, then he would have a Leadership score of 9 at Level 9, which would give him an ECL 6 cohort. And Pegasi happen to be ECL 6... -Jindl
Hatzinger 07-27-04, 06:17 PM	Jindl, there is no rerun nor will be.
Jindl 07-27-04, 06:29 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger Jindl, there is no rerun nor will be. That's a pretty sloppy attitude for a pitlord to take. "Yep, I'm sorry. Your opponent got two extra rounds of actions because of my mistake. You lose. Oh, and there won't be a re-run, even though your opponent asked me to fix the mistake also." Pitlords are supposed to care about running fights correctly. If you don't care about whether the fight is done right, then you shouldn't be a pitlord. And based upon the lack of concern you are showing for these mistakes, it certainly appears that you don't care about whether the fight was done right.
Hatzinger 07-27-04, 07:51 PM	Jindl. Calm down. First, you two pointed to the errors in the fight. (Which i am thankful for.) But i don´t remember one of you two requesting a rerun. And now it is too late for that. Second, it seems that everyone nowadays reruns every fight. Do I have to remind YOU that we used to have a no-rerun policy? Do you want to complain because i follow the COCO standards? I hope that you believe that the standards do apply to everyone. Third, your tactics were not tailored to him bow-attacking you; errors or no errors. So don´t be a sore looser. Fourth, i refuse to tolerate any arrogations about my pitlording-aptitude. You can talk to Cat in this tone, but not to me. I try to keep my posts polite and not to insult people. And this is the same thing that i expect from anyone else; YOU included.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-27-04, 08:03 PM	Originally posted by Jindl That's a pretty sloppy attitude for a pitlord to take. "Yep, I'm sorry. Your opponent got two extra rounds of actions because of my mistake. You lose. Oh, and there won't be a re-run, even though your opponent asked me to fix the mistake also." When Brock lost his first fight, when ^rayned^ got totally pitlord-mutilated, when others had concerns, i don't recall you jumping to anyones defense when they've been done wrong. Also, you keep clearly stating (and i remember this one with Brock when LL dissappeared for a while) there was no re-run policy and that i'd just have to "suck it up" as you put it. In fact you always argue to others that "the errors were minor" as well. So, Jindl, "suck it up" and carry on. IMO, and i'm being honest not just crass, that the error was minor (and those kind of errors happen weekly, just a product of human error) and definately not worthy of a re-run. I think Hatz made the right call, and those are harsh words. -ToK
Hatzinger 07-27-04, 08:10 PM	Thanks, ToK. :P
MysticMonk2005 07-27-04, 08:24 PM	I'll take one fight this week.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-27-04, 08:39 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 I'll take one fight this week. Hey Mystic, you still had a week late penatly left, but since it's a two week period this time around (due to the holidays and the 13's being activated for the first time in months) i removed the penalties from you and LL (who had 2 weeks to go anyhow) and if there is a shortage of Pitlords you will be assigned one. -ToK
Jindl 07-27-04, 09:24 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger Jindl. Calm down. First, you two pointed to the errors in the fight. (Which i am thankful for.) But i don´t remember one of you two requesting a rerun. And now it is too late for that. Second, it seems that everyone nowadays reruns every fight. Do I have to remind YOU that we used to have a no-rerun policy? Do you want to complain because i follow the COCO standards? I hope that you believe that the standards do apply to everyone. Third, your tactics were not tailored to him bow-attacking you; errors or no errors. So don´t be a sore looser. Fourth, i refuse to tolerate any arrogations about my pitlording-aptitude. You can talk to Cat in this tone, but not to me. I try to keep my posts polite and not to insult people. And this is the same thing that i expect from anyone else; YOU included. Hatz - What gets me upset is when a pitlord will sit there and tell you, yes I made major errors in the fight, and then refuse to fix them. It's not personal, which is why I specifically said that if you are the kind of person who doesn't care about the errors you made in a fight then you shouldn't be pitlording. I didn't use any insults or anything. I just told you point blank that I believe a pitlord should care about preventing/correcting errors, and from your statements, it appears that you do not. Now, you should look again at page 3 of the Fights of the Week thread. You'll see where both Kaigan and I asked for you to take a look at this and fix the errors. As for the Rerun policy, we do NOT, I repeat, we do NOT have a No Rerun policy. That disappeared long ago. The existing Rerun policy is that it is purely at the discretion of the pitlord who ran the fight. There is one very simple reason for this. It allows pitlords to fix errors in fights to uphold standards, without being obligated to fix every little thing. See the FAQ for more info on this. However, in this fight, it wasn't a little thing at all. As for my tactics, they were developed specifically for him bow attacking me. I mean, what else do you expect Enilias the Arcane Archer to do? I even wrote to ready an action to drink the potion: invisibility when he attacked. And as you can see on the aforementioned page 3 of the Fights of the Week, the fight goes very differently if Enilias doesn't get the 2 free rounds of actions that you gave him. Fourth, and lets be very clear about this, your Pitlording aptitude is clearly displayed in the fights you have run. I don't have to make any allegations, when as a pitlord running an ECL 10 fight, you forget that its a move action to draw a weapon or a scroll, and you forget that you need a hand free in order to complete somatic components. Those are beginner mistakes. I expect better from you. -Jindl
Caterane 07-27-04, 09:31 PM	I have to admit that I complained sometimes in the past but the Corinthus vs Ixidor fight was the last one. I didn't say a word in the Arkin fight though there were some things I could bring on the table. And this is how I'll continue from now on. Complaining about every stupid mistake doesn't encourage pitlording and I like people to like moderating my characters. So I just shut up in future ...and I'd advise others to do so aswell except in the most obvious circumstances. This can only increase the harmony in the CoCo. And that's the reason why I opened the "How to pitlord" thread! I want to find a general definition on how to run fights, and to which extend a pitlord is allowed to adept. However, the participation wasn't as much as I would've liked to see even though I'm sure EVERYONE has an opinion on this topic. So please, if you have anything to say, go to this thread and say it! @Tok: Don't worry, my characters will all be active.
Pitlords 07-27-04, 09:31 PM	@All - A new poll has been decided by the Elders, concerning Wild armor and armor check penalties. Copied from the CoCo Senate Wild Armor check penalties: When a druid is wildshaped, does his Wild armor/shield retain any of the penalties of wearing armor, such as max dex, armor check penalty, weight, encumbrance, arcane spell failure, or the -2 to attacks from a tower shield? Note: The earlier ruling that the druid is considered "armored" would still apply as far as the monk's bonus to AC is concerned. (a) Yes (b) No (c) Abstain (1) Caterane: ?; (2) Jindl: No; (3) Ethendril: No; (4) Tellish: ?; (5) Motherbast: No So, all you druids out there, don't fear the armor check penalties. -Jindl
Caterane 07-27-04, 09:42 PM	What the hell? 1) First of all, who made this poll? 2) Why hasn't it been announced? 3) How long was it up? 5 minutes? 4) Why do you log in with the pitlord account? I was just about to log in myself when Tellish gave over. In case you didn't get the new schedule, here it is: MON - Tok TUE - Tok WED - Tok/Cat THU - Cat FRI - Cat SAT - JINDL SUN - JINDL As for the result of the Senate: GOOD BYE BALANCE!!! :thumbsup:
Tellish_of_Ket 07-27-04, 09:48 PM	Hunh? I don't remember that poll. -ToK
Caterane 07-27-04, 09:59 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Hunh? I don't remember that poll. -ToK Yes, because Jindl set it up without telling anyone and it wasn't up for long aswell. Motherbast and Jindl play druids, so no surprise (though MB has probably his 'Common sense is the lowly peasant' reasoning applied; no offense MB, I'm just quoting you) here but Ethendril, you said it is an expensive enchantment. Perhaps you should read this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=4009526#post4009526) and reconsider your vote. And if this doesn't convinces you (it even convinces Druidroxors who plays one) then think about the impact it will have on the CoCo's balance. Run the numbers or you get a bad surprise when Jindler of the High Forest and the other druids show you how to abuse this. @Jindl: In any case, this poll isn't closed!!!
Tellish_of_Ket 07-27-04, 10:04 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Jindl: In any case, this poll isn't closed!!! There is no poll....consider it null/void. The object of even needing a poll is to discuss it amongst ourselves to see if we even need to make a poll. Secret polls don't count. Please read, ZERO TOLERANCE. -ToK
Jindl 07-27-04, 10:15 PM	You overstep your bounds, Tellish_of_Ket. GM's do not overrule the votes of the Elders, especially on issues related to interpretation of the Core rules. The vote is decided, though You and Caterane may certainly make it a 3-2 decision by voting against it.
Caterane 07-27-04, 10:21 PM	And we don't open secret polls either! I ask you again: 1) WHEN DID YOU OPEN THIS POLL??? 2) WHY DIDN'T YOU ANOUNCE IT?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-27-04, 10:26 PM	Originally posted by Jindl You overstep your bounds, Tellish_of_Ket. GM's do not overrule the votes of the Elders, especially on issues related to interpretation of the Core rules. The vote is decided, though You and Caterane may certainly make it a 3-2 decision by voting against it. I did not overstep my bounds. You did Jindl. You overstepped it by creating a secret poll to undermine the spirit of the CoCo. I think i am well within my right, in the interest of the 30 or so other gladiators and pitlords alike to speak up and step up to the plate when they are being boondoggled. The reason to null/void it has nothing to do with being GM. It has everything to do with fairness and etiquette. I am afraid the null/void stands. If the senate wishes to play dirty tricks with you and undermine our efforts to create a fair and equitable playing area, it can be disbanded as well. Why are you doing this? Some kind of temper tantrum because you aren't roster keeper anymore? Because we wanted to split the duties instead of you always manipulating the roster to your favor? Is this how you react? Childishly and immaturely, create a secret poll and enforce JINDL-LAW!? I'm sorry, and i apolagies if this offends MB and Ethendril. But what was done, was really underhanded. It's not the spirit of the CoCo, it completely undermines and abuses the need for the Senate. Until such time as i've had time to discuss this issue with Wiz-O, Cat, MO, no more polls are to be created, the results of this poll are null/void. And this has nothing to do with GM...it's called being a human being and seeing the travesty being performed by people that we would believe would be more responsible with the authority invested in them. -ToK
Jindl 07-27-04, 10:31 PM	@Caterane (and everyone else who is interested) - So that you know this was not decided flippantly or with little thought, please follow these links and look at the discussion which has occured over the last week and a half on this topic. This (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=279456) is a thread I opened on the CO board, where this arena first was born. In this thread, you will see many of the long standing CO regulars, such as Prism and Snow Savant give their support of the fact that melded armor (Wild or otherwise) does not have encumbrance or encumbrance related penalties. This thread also contains a link to another thread, where Rich Baker, one of the primary authors of the PHB, confirms that melded equipment "doesn't exist for all intents and purposes" and that Wild armor retains only the bonuses armor. Rich even suggests that Wild armor should retain other enhancements, such as fire resistance or fortification (though this is not spelled out in the Core rules). I, however, am less concerned with the conveyance of other benefits than I am with the fact that the armor remains melded, something which he confirmed. This (http:// http//boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=279465) is the same thread on the DnD class boards, where it saw much less response. However, there was a great example of why Wilded armor has no encumbrance or encumbrance related penalties. This (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040518a) is a link to Rules of the Game - Polymorphing, where another of the games primary designers, Skip Williams, talks about melded equipment as being "subsumed by the form". It doesn't get much clearer than that. If your armor is now part of your new form, it can't hinder you. The point is, you may think that these decisions were made for personal reasons. I think your dissenting opinion is due to personal reasons (Caterane and Tellish). But the rules are simple and clear. As another of our Elders has already stated once: "The fact that EVERYONE on the CO boards knows about the Monk/Druid build is proof enough for me that it works. If 99% of the Min/Maxers think it works, odds are, it does." In my experience, that is where you see most of the intelligent DnD players, and where rules are most often scrutinized and researched. And they say it works this way. To go even further, Snow Savant, who I hold in the highest regard as one of the most intelligent DnD players that I have ever spoken to, also supports this concept. -Jindl
Jindl 07-27-04, 10:36 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Until such time as i've had time to discuss this issue with Wiz-O, Cat, MO, no more polls are to be created, the results of this poll are null/void. And this has nothing to do with GM...it's called being a human being and seeing the travesty being performed by people that we would believe would be more responsible with the authority invested in them. -ToK You do not have the authority to prevent polls from being opened. You do not have the authority to nullify the polls of the Elders. What made you think you did? This board is not your and Cat's plaything. This is the Core arena, and despite your personal feelings about me, or Caterane's personal feelings about druids, we follow the Core rules. It is the basis of our identity as a board. This poll is a question regarding the Core Rules. It is a perfectly acceptable clarification to the previous poll, which has been discussed at great length here on this board over the last week. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 07-27-04, 10:37 PM	The point is Jindl, you did underhandedly. You never once asked if we should open a poll on this. You arranged this behind our backs without any concern for the senate. Me being upset has more to do with it being done in VERY poor taste as opposed to the outcome of the vote. Other than INA, i've never once begrudged a vote by the senate, the senior mods or the public as a whole. I just go with the flow. But what flowed from that didn't smell to pretty. -ToK
Jindl 07-27-04, 10:42 PM	Actually, Tellish, I did ask for the Senate to clarify the earlier ruling. And Caterane said, "No, that was already voted on." You can read all about it during the discussion about Lillith vs Hurtz last week. This issue was one where your vote and Caterane's vote were public knowledge and you weren't going to change your mind. MotherBast's vote and my vote were also public knowledge and we weren't going to change our minds. It fell to Ethendril to analyze the info and decide what he personally thinks the rule is. And as much as Cat worries about balance, that's not the issue here. The issue is the Core rules. Ethendril took his time and made his decision. But enough of me telling you this, I'll step back and let the other Elders and players speak. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 07-27-04, 10:47 PM	i must have missed that. With all the posts flying about it, i didn't see that. I shall review your links and respond tomorrow. Off the bed right now. -ToK **EDIT** perhaps a compromise? An open poll perhaps? At least, everyone gets to view the links, it isn't done behind people's backs and will represent the core of the gladiators and pitlords alike? -ToK
Caterane 07-27-04, 10:51 PM	Jindl, normally I would give the 'plaything' right back to you and say that actually I and Tellish are the ones who care for the CoCo and its balance opposed to you (remember: "oppose") but I'll leave that better be. I suggest to relocate this discussion behind the curtain, as always. What I am concerned about is the balance of this board. This has nothing to do with you or druids, but with creating an unfair and unbalanced enviroment. As everyone knows, I am trying to get more power to melee characters and take away from spellcasters but this poll breaks the figthers neck completely. I succeed in making a little step into the right direction, with a lot of effort, and you run over it with your steamroller in less than 2 days. Is this the way you are trying to balance the CoCo and make it fun for everyone?
Jindl 07-27-04, 10:55 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket i must have missed that. With all the posts flying about it, i didn't see that. I shall review your links and respond tomorrow. Off the bed right now. -ToK **EDIT** perhaps a compromise? An open poll perhaps? At least, everyone gets to view the links, it isn't done behind people's backs and will represent the core of the gladiators and pitlords alike? -ToK Thanks for taking the time to review the links. As for the open poll, there are two issues about that: 1. In the past, when we had open polls about rules issues (like INA for example) there was a lot of skepticism that people weren't actually researching the rules, but were instead going on a gut feeling. This cannot be done with important rules interpretations like this. Its okay for polls about whether to hold an Ironman tourney, or what people want to name the City. But the Elder's were created specifically to answer Rules Interpretations. And the only reason this would go to an open poll was if the Elders can't make a decision. In this case, they did. 2. Open polls take time. The last one took 15 days. We have 4 druids affected by this decision and all of them will be active this week. It is not appropriate to ask all of them to wait over 3 weeks (due to the boards being down) before reactivating their gladiators. Do you have any suggestions on how to deal with these two problems I see with the open poll?
Jindl 07-27-04, 11:00 PM	Originally posted by Caterane What I am concerned about is the balance of this board. This has nothing to do with you or druids, but with creating an unfair and unbalanced enviroment. As everyone knows, I am trying to get more power to melee characters and take away from spellcasters but this poll breaks the figthers neck completely. I succeed in making a little step into the right direction, with a lot of effort, and you run over it with your steamroller in less than 2 days. Is this the way you are trying to balance the CoCo and make it fun for everyone? Cat - Now you are diverging into another issue entirely, and one that we really need to discuss (with everyone invited to the discussion) on another thread. That debate is Core Rules vs Balance. IMO, the balancing of the Core rules and the classes is NOT our job. The reason this board was created was to have a place to test builds/tactics that you could use in a regular game. That's why we stuck with Core only material. Because most games use the Core rules. Trying to balance the classes or the Core rules is incompatable with the purpose of this board. If you create house-rules for what you see as balance, then this place is no longer the Core Collosseum. Now, I think further discussion of this Core vs Balance debate really deserves its own thread. -Jindl
Caterane 07-27-04, 11:04 PM	Agreed. See you on the battlefield. ...and the poll is not closed. Half an hour ago I didn't know that it even exists.
Jindl 07-27-04, 11:07 PM	Cat - I didn't say it was closed, merely that it had been decided already. And it doesn't have to be a war between us on this issue or on any other. I think we both want what's best for the CoCo, we just disagree on whether that is trying to correct inbalances in the rules or following the Core rules as they are written. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 07-27-04, 11:24 PM	When you read my quotes from other sources you will see that it is pretty much unanimous. here's a summary: 1. Armor Bonus - retained. 2. Enhancement Bonus of said Armor - retained 3. monk's bonus/monk belt doesn't stack 4. ACP, max dex, ASP, - lost 5. "properties" of said armor become non-functional (like shadow armor, fortification etc..) 6. there are cheaper and more effective ways for a druid to gain wild-armor AC without the ACP. 7. shield bonuses DO NOT count towards your overall AC. Sheild bonus it is it's own bonus (and most agree it could have been an oversight because of the 3.0 way of thinking) but litteral interpretation says you don't get any benefit of the shields AC. I think that about sums it up. I can live with that. Jindl? You agree with the 7-point summary? -ToK Prism I would certainly house rule that the shield doesn't stack - like I said before by the wording a wild shape shield does not retain its shield bonus and therefore can hardly retain an enhancment bonus to a non existant shield. Obviously the wording is a bit messed up here as the wild enchantment is supposed to work on shields too. Cryptictravler Spells usually only say what changes...as do enchantments. Neither says you lose any of the other effects of wearing armor. Since it never says you lose the penalties..I would assume they stay in place. Isthramir Melded armor that provides an armor bonus is an exception to the "nonfunctional" rule, and I would say it is a complete exception and functions normally in every way except that it is melded. Skulan As for the issue in general, the Wild armor says that it cannot be seen, but it would not be much of a stretch to say that it is still worn in some way. That would negate any monk bonus at least, and potentially involve armor penalties and the like. Though I tend to agree with the thinking that melded armor doesn't give penalties. micheal_noah "nonfunctional" means that it has no effect whatsoever; wild armor means it gives an AC bonus. That means the only thing it does is give an AC bonus. Prism Also, its hard to imagine how upon changing into a form of a smaller or larger size, the armour could do anything else but meld and become weightless. Otherwise you couldn't wildshape into something like a bird as your armour would weigh too much. And you couldn't walk as a horse as your shield would still be hanging around one of your legs We can only assume that non-functional = melded = weightless. And if it is weightless I just can't see it retaining any ACP micheal_noah You're probably right about the shield. I'd stick to the RAW and say you get no bonus from a wild shield. Cryptictravler The function of armor is to protect the body. A plain word meaning applied to the alter self line would dictate that the armor loses its ability to protect. Since the spell never mentions it becoming weightless or unencumbering we could assume that does not change. Which would mean the monk's belt doesn't stack. Snow Because as it stands, I directly interpret the Wild enhancement to *only* let you recoup the following: 1. Armor Bonus 2. Enhancement Bonus of said Armor
Jindl 07-27-04, 11:54 PM	@Tellish - Agreed (and thanks for taking the time/effort to read through the material with an open mind!) Though we still are waiting for more clarification regarding #3 - the monks AC bonus and #7 - the shield oversight. After all, it is specifically listed as a potential shield enhancement, yet they neglect to mention that it works for the Shield bonus to AC. As you said, it is probably an oversight, but for the time being, we can work without it, and either discuss it further, or wait for clarifications from WoTC. Now, since we have agreed that Wilded shields don't work, I expect that any druids who have spent money buying/making Wilded shields should be able to refund them completely because of this ruling. -Jindl ***************************** On a completely different topic: Since this will be a two week pairing, perhaps we should delay pairings until Friday 9 PM GMT to give additional time for people to ready the 13's. They'll still be plenty of time to run the fights. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 07-28-04, 12:47 AM	I would be in favor of refunding wilded shields. I would not be in favor of delaying until Friday for pairings. We've given two full weeks notice already and i've posted almost every other day about the 13's. I think that's plenty fair. The reason is, is that tactics being due were delayed until Monday. That's 5 full days for tactics. I'd be willing to make a comprimise and say Thursday, but that means less time for tactics as it's a long weekend. Many peopel (including me) will be leaving for holidays late thursday night and will have to spend some holiday time doing tacitcs? Yuck. If Cat wants to wait until thursday, i won't oppose, but obviously i'd prefer Wednesday because we've already given two weeks of notice in advance. If someone missed it, it's probably because they've been away for all two of those weeks. lol. -ToK
Caterane 07-28-04, 01:30 AM	I have free tomorow (WED) but have to work early and long on thursday (I'll be online and can have the IE running in the background to read posts once in a while but no pairings). I am just readying my characters. Inactive are Bilo, Skymoon, Donkey (all snarked), Peter, and Corinthus. I suppose Jindl of the High Forest will be ready tomorow at 8:55 GMT :rolleyes: As for the wilded thing, I can only repeat to read the post I've linked above. I don't know who this Snow Savant or Prism are and you don't know them either nor are they officials. What we do know however is the interaction of things in the CoCo and this is where we should focus on. There is no clarification on this topic and no one can say it will be a houserule if we'd forbid druids from using nonproficient armor. It can also be the other way around. Jindl, I know that we are the Core Coliseum but balance is much more important than being core. There've been 3 other arenas before ours and all went down because it wasn't balanced. Just because we're core doesn't make us immune to the same fate - it just leaves us with fewer opportunities to abuse the rules. And our job is to find these weaknesses and eliminate them. It's our job to keep the CoCo alive. Ask yourself this question: What would you prefer? - Seeing the CoCo coming crashing down because of imbalance for the sake of staying Core? - or would you rather prefer to let one or two house rules in and keep it healthy and balanced? I prefer the latter one for sure.
LLMadCow 07-28-04, 02:32 AM	Tired of tongue biting. Would like to see some reform. [Edited for those sensitive people.]
LLMadCow 07-28-04, 02:35 AM	@ Elders/Senate - Since there are two weeks for the next pairings, can everyone post two characters for free? This encourages more fights and more pitlording.
cellardweller 07-28-04, 03:03 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow @ALL - Just some facts about the Jindler... Despite the fact that I am firmly in Cat's "balance" camp, I have to say that I find that kind of personal attack on offensive, and I'm not even Jindl.
Druid Roxors 07-28-04, 03:11 AM	Originally posted by cellardweller Despite the fact that I am firmly in Cat's "balance" camp, I have to say that I find that kind of personal attack on offensive, and I'm not even Jindl. Agreed
Druid Roxors 07-28-04, 03:28 AM	@ Cat: Btw, did you read my PM already? (both of them)
SnarkHunter 07-28-04, 03:37 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Inactive are Bilo, Skymoon, Donkey (all snarked), Peter, and Corinthus. I suppose Jindl of the High Forest will be ready tomorow at 8:55 GMT :rolleyes: Aye, I'll prolly have one readied tomorrow. I just need to decide which.
Druid Roxors 07-28-04, 03:39 AM	I wonder if Jindl did issue a real challenge to Bilo...
Pittbull 07-28-04, 03:53 AM	@Cat: thank you for activating your prof. After the fight against heinrich, I was making up my mind how to solve the problem with the overpowered casters. The only solution I can suggest is to shorten the distance between the galdiatiors and make sure that there are no obstacles in the direct pass. I think max. 60 feet should be the distance. Yes, I know this suggestion will rise a big discussion about initiative, but I think the luck-factor is a nice thing. In this way fighters will have a chance against casters, if they win the initiave, if not, nothing happens, it's still the same(no chance for fighters). Of course we should place some obstacles in base-move-distance to the gladiators, because of the builds who prefer to hide. If my work allows it, I will post a map. What do you think, do want to give it a try and test it out in fight Prof. V vs. Angosh? @All: what do you think about the points i mentioned above. PS: of course it's not allowed to palce an ally in front of your character. [edit] Check out Hatzinger second map on the map-thread, but with 10 feet walk-troughs instead of 5 feet.
Hatzinger 07-28-04, 04:14 AM	@all (other than Jindl, ToK and Cat): The senate does not seem to be working at the moment. It has lost my and maybe your trust and i, personally, mostly skip the posts of the senate-members. As i can not see any reason for its existance in this current state, (and do not understand the concept of a senate ruling over other players. What did they think? That they knew the rules better than all others?) i suggest an open poll on how many of you all think that this senate/quarrel-thing should be replaced by open polls, which we ALL have the chance of taking part in. Another possible solution to this thing is to make every COCO player with at least one character and who has been part of the COCO for at least two weeks a senate-member. We all should have the same rights. And at the moment it seems that we have to use them. I´ll open up a threat where you all can post your opinions. You can find it here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4064179#post4064172)
Ashenai 07-28-04, 05:19 AM	@Hatzinger: I think this is a terrible idea. During my short stay here so far, I've seen people with a truly abysmal understanding of the rules (no names, I don't want to embarrass anyone). Making every question "majority rules" could easily twist the CoCo away from being Core. And while introducing non-Core aspects for the sake of balance (as Cat wants to do) may or may not be a good idea, breaking Core rules simply because some or most people don't understand them correctly definitely isn't. @All I would support LLMadCow's initiative to make the Senate larger. It just seems like a good idea, and personal interests would have less of a chance to sway Senate vote (I don't know if this happens; I do know that there are accusations to this effect). I'd also support putting questions to majority vote if the Senate does not have a 2/3 majority on a vote, especially now that it's only 5 people. A 3-2 split means that it's a single person deciding a vote, and a majority vote is probably preferable to that. @Cat Complaining about every stupid mistake doesn't encourage pitlording and I like people to like moderating my characters. So I just shut up in future ...and I'd advise others to do so aswell except in the most obvious circumstances. This can only increase the harmony in the CoCo. Well, I would like people to tell me when I make a mistake in pitlording, however minor. If a person's character has been entrusted to my care for the duration of a fight, it's my responsibility to make sure everything works as it's supposed to. I also think that pointing out mistakes is useful and doesn't have to be discouraging or insulting, if done in a friendly manner. I'd like people to call attention to my mistakes, and I'm going to call attention to their mistakes as well, unless someone makes it clear that they don't want that.
Jindl 07-28-04, 08:53 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors I wonder if Jindl did issue a real challenge to Bilo... Yes, but that was several months ago. So, I would like to renew the challenge now. Snark, what do you say?
Magagumo 07-28-04, 08:58 AM	More to say (mostly positive) Re: tactics/editing Thursday is the latest I could send tactics, as I need to pack and move out of my current room and into my dorm room tomorrow. Friday-the following Sunday I will be absent. I can certainly write tactics tonight, but I would want to know that Johan and Bruno have been finalized. (Cellar: I sent you a PM regarding a missing spell component- I advise you buy it or you won't be able to use True Seeing as you memorized)
Jindl 07-28-04, 09:08 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow @ALL - Just some facts about the Jindler... Fact - Jindl has done many things that are chidish and underhanded. (Please refer to the Private Poll (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=4061464#post4061464) and the Mid-Week abandonment of his duties! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=4014377#post4014377)) Fact - Jindl has not responded to my private criticsm. (You'll have to take my word) Fact - I was a solid supporter of the 7-person Elder senate and was finally removed for whatever reasons; this leads to some ease of quick and dirty Senate votes. There is a reason that most real life senates are large. Fact - Jindl was removed from scheduling the Pitlords and fights becuase he was believed to be cheating. Fact - A rule was set in place to keep Jindl from manipulating the fights every week and thus rigging his own fights. Take it for what it is. If people request, I can read through and try to fin information to back any claim made, but I do stand behind them... Brian, I am quite offended by the lies you offer up as "facts". #1 - If you'll check the poll, the results are now 4-1, with Tellish also in favor of the Wilded armor without check penalties. As for abandoning my duties, that's pretty harsh considering that the other two GM's specifically asked for an opportunity to participate more in pairings. That request was made more than a week before I turned pairings over to them. #2 - Do you mean the insulting PM's that you occasionally send me? I figured it would be better to "turn the other cheek" instead of responding to such. #3 - The reduction of the Elders from 7 to 5 was decided by a unanimous decision from Caterane, Tellish, and me. So don't even try to accuse me of doing it. #4 - I was not "removed" from running pairings. Quite the contrary, I handed it over for 2 main reasons. First, because I was getting tired of the constant criticism from Caterane. And Second, because I believed that if I let them do it a while, they might have a better understanding of both the amount of work I put in, as well as how difficult it can be to keep everything fair for the players. As it stands, Pairings will be alternated between the GM's, with Cat and Tellish taking the majority for now. #5 - I have never "rigged" my own fights. Your accusation is a blatant lie. The 9 PM GMT rule was set in place so that all players know when editing must be completed. And the editing deadline has nothing to do with who is fighting whom, and it never did. Even when the rule was "must be edited before pairings", you still had to edit before the pairings. So your accusation that I manipulated and rigged the fights is a load of crap. At least two players have already posted their feelings about your attack on me. And based on the email I just received from WizO Shadow, someone had already reported it, before I even read your post. Now, I'm trying to be civil about this, though I doubt it will make any difference to you. But if you truly believe those "facts" that you listed, then you are being deceived.
Jindl 07-28-04, 09:15 AM	@Pittbull - I think a small arena may have the opposite effect. When the Core Arena was first developed, there was quite a bit of discussion about starting distance. The majority opinion (which was based on experience from the old Let's Get Ready to Rumble arena, our non-Core predecessor) was that the shorter distances favor spellcasters even more. It allows too many win-init instant kills with close range spells. It also makes it impossible to play an archer or a sneaky type. If Cat doesn't object, you're welcome to try the small arena, but I don't think it will see a lot of use here, for the reasons above. And I do think it will have the opposite effect from what you intend. -Jindl
Myrridin 07-28-04, 09:18 AM	Wow....you go away for a night. I'd like to pitlord one fight this week, and am willing to run a level 13 as well.
Myrridin 07-28-04, 09:19 AM	I set Zephin to active for this week, level 11.
cellardweller 07-28-04, 09:26 AM	Originally posted by Magagumo More to say (mostly positive) Re: tactics/editing Thursday is the latest I could send tactics, as I need to pack and move out of my current room and into my dorm room tomorrow. Friday-the following Sunday I will be absent. I can certainly write tactics tonight, but I would want to know that Johan and Bruno have been finalized. (Cellar: I sent you a PM regarding a missing spell component- I advise you buy it or you won't be able to use True Seeing as you memorized) I have made some minor edits to Johan since you readied Bruno (level 6/7 spells, contingent summon and upgraded cloak of resistance). Unless you are going to make sweeping changes to Bruno, you can consider him finalised. Ps the component is there: "250 gp worth of mushroom powder, saffron, and fat" Thankyou for the guesture though.
LLMadCow 07-28-04, 10:59 AM	Originally posted by cellardweller Despite the fact that I am firmly in Cat's "balance" camp, I have to say that I find that kind of personal attack on offensive, and I'm not even Jindl. Say what you want. I had stayed my hand in the past, but there gets to be a point where 'Arguements behind closed curtains' doesn't get the job done. The fact of the matter is that Jindl, Cat, ToK, Mo, myself and perhaps a few others have been having arguements and debates and such behind the scenes for quite a while. Okay, so it was a personal attack, but I wish someone was logging everything else that has gone on. So much has transpired that it is very ridiculous and, since I am no longer part of the Elders/Senate, my only voice is here on the boards and so I shout! PS - For those concerned, I will edit my post. @Jindl - Perhaps my words were a bit harsh, but so much has been going on, and so much tha the bulk of the people in the arena have mere glimpses of. View my PMs however you want to, it doesn't change the fact that you never took the time to respond to them, much less refute them. So, from where I stand, I have made comments and you just took them and chose not to respond. I have taken the time to make well thought out and considerable messages. In response to #1, bah. I remember when there was an EVEN number of Elders and a tie would end up with a POLL for everyone to vote on. Now, the only possibility for a tie is if one is to abstain. I was always in favor of open debate and discussion and VERY opposed to quick decisions. Quick decisions was reason enough for me to be rude and post what I did. Quick doesn't mean fair. In response to #3 - You mean 8 to 5, right? Since when it dropped there was Me, Mo, and one other (Snark?) So, as I mentioned above, a lot of power was taken away from the people since the odds of having a TIE is far less now. In response to #4, fine. You agreed to step down. Did you agree to step down when you did? Or did you agree to step down 2 weeks later as Cat posted? Leaving everyone in limbo, unsure if ToK or Cat would have the time to take care of everything would seem rather petty. In response to #5, I have to say that there was a BIG arguement about the appearance of rigging fights and the intention was that the person doing the pairings would not edit their sheet 24 hours prior to pairings, but it got carried over. Do you not remember the complaints of you editing your character 5 minutes before you did the pairings? Did you not notice the recent comment reflecting this habit of yours?
SnarkHunter 07-28-04, 12:58 PM	I met a girl who sang the blues/ And I asked her for some happy news/ But she just smiled and turned away: @Jindl: Been thinking about it. Its just that I don't know if I care to invest that degree of effort into both preperation and tactics that it would no doubt require. I haven't played Bilo in a very long time, and I guess I'm worried I might muck it up. I'm thinking of activating Donkey actually.
Jindl 07-28-04, 01:07 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter @Jindl: Been thinking about it. Its just that I don't know if I care to invest that degree of effort into both preperation and tactics that it would no doubt require. I haven't played Bilo in a very long time, and I guess I'm worried I might muck it up. I'm thinking of activating Donkey actually. Yeah, I know what you mean. It was the last week of February when Jindl made the 13's. That's 6 months since I last played him. Still, I'll extend the challenge to Donkey also. There's still the matter of that grove he smashed up when he defeated Dra'kel...
MysticMonk2005 07-28-04, 01:18 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Hey Mystic, you still had a week late penatly left, but since it's a two week period this time around (due to the holidays and the 13's being activated for the first time in months) i removed the penalties from you and LL (who had 2 weeks to go anyhow) and if there is a shortage of Pitlords you will be assigned one. -ToK o.O :confused: I was only penalized for a month right??? Hasn't it been a month??
SnarkHunter 07-28-04, 01:19 PM	Refused old chum. Nothing personal, I'd just like to have one random fight this week. Question about Johans planer Ally. Good show and all making him an Aasimar, but would you have him and his ally starting with you? that seems a tad excessive. Oh and Aku needs to pick a 12th level feat.
Caterane 07-28-04, 01:33 PM	(same melody) ...and the council was impractical/could he bring balance to the Force/they interviewed the kid/oh training they forbid/because Yoda sensed in him much fear and Qui-Gon said now listen here/just stick it in your pointy ears/I still will teach this boy... Jindl, don't worry about your druid being inactive for half a year. With this new rule my grandma could play him and still win. @ALL: Please send any special requests or changes about your character to the PITLORDS account. I got PMs to my account and Tellish and Jindl too, and some even post it here in the Tavern. It is difficult for the Rosterkeeper to get all this information together. Please, in future send PMs to the pitlords account! Thanks Cat
Myrridin 07-28-04, 01:36 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Refused old chum. Nothing personal, I'd just like to have one random fight this week. Question about Johans planer Ally. Good show and all making him an Aasimar, but would you have him and his ally starting with you? that seems a tad excessive. Oh and Aku needs to pick a 12th level feat. You're allowed to bring in one Ally. So you can't bring in your cohort, and your cohort's ally. This is a rule that has been in place for a *long* time.
SnarkHunter 07-28-04, 01:42 PM	Right, just checking. Anywho, Donkey is ready! Can I get a heehaw?
Magagumo 07-28-04, 02:01 PM	I'm almost insulted... why can't people remember that I was an Elder for a good bit of time :confused: ? Ah well, spilled milk and all... @cellar Huh, must have missed the component *shrugs*, glad to see it's all taken care of. I figured the bat wasn't coming in... after all, 1 caster v. 2 casters is going to be interesting. .. and fun (@Snark & Jindl, you think you're a bit rusty? :-P) One last thing, I wanted to voice my approval of the full mem system. Admittedly, I don't play divine casters, and this takes the big surprises out of their fights. Nonetheless, having to decide all my spells right then and there helped me to formalize a sound strategy (can't wing it if you've mem'd all the wrong spells), and I think knowing Johan's spells, and v. versa, will make for interesting counter-tactics. Maybe it's just me, but trading guesswork for ingenuity is a big plus :) I have to say, cellar, that win or lose, I think Bruno's fight will be the most fun I've had on these boards in a long time- it's so much of a cerebal challenge :) Edit: Heehaw!! :cool:
Tellish_of_Ket 07-28-04, 02:21 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 o.O :confused: I was only penalized for a month right??? Hasn't it been a month?? I honestly don't know chum. When i did the pairings last week you were still listed as having a 2 week penalty, i then took off a week. Unless Jindl missed one week somewhere i dunno. I didn't keep track of that stuff back then. However, i don't see the harm in letting you Pitlord a fight. Send Cat a pm via the Pitlords acct and see if there's an opening. -ToK
Jindl 07-28-04, 03:56 PM	@Mystic/ToK - I don't think I missed any weeks. But go ahead and request to run one this week. @Pitlords - Jindl of the High Forest, Aku the Shapeshifting Master of Darkness, and Rhoar are all ready. Please note that Rhoar is 11th level after bumping from his loss to Enilias. @Eth/Beldin - Sorry to screw up your challenge, but Rhoar and Enilias can't have an instant rematch :( -Jindl
Druid Roxors 07-28-04, 05:20 PM	@ Pitlords: Remember to backup the parings & roster!
Pitlords 07-28-04, 06:04 PM	Pairings are done!! (including the 13ths) 1. Tactics are due Friday. 2. Pitlords may begin running fights with tactics at once. 3. Pitlords may run fights using default tactics on Monday. 4. Fights are due Monday in a week. 5. Late penalties will apply on Tuesday in a week. The Online Roller doesn't display the rolls and I don't know why. I clicked add to database but it doesn't display it. First time I use this particular online roller. However, you can find the rolls if you search for CoCoPairings#1 I'm going to use another online roller in future, or my dice LOL just kidding. Another important notice: I've cleaned the inactive list and set up a new rule to prevent it from becoming flooded with Spam characters. From now on only characters of lvl 4+ will enter the inactive list. Deletion after 2 months of inactivity or one month for levels 4 to 6. If someone can't even play a character to lvl 4 then he doesn't deserve to be listed there. And it makes my job easier. Gonna work on the World thread now... - Cat
Tellish_of_Ket 07-28-04, 06:19 PM	Actually Cat, you forgot. We extended the request for tactics until Monday due to the long weekend and it's a two-week pairings placement. -ToK
Jindl 07-28-04, 06:29 PM	Cat - Rhoar is level 11, he shouldn't be in the level 10 pairings. I posted it twice here, and listed it in the subject header for the character sheet. What else do I have to do? -Jindl
Pitlords 07-28-04, 06:41 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Cat - Rhoar is level 11, he shouldn't be in the level 10 pairings. I posted it twice here, and listed it in the subject header for the character sheet. What else do I have to do? -Jindl What about that: Originally posted by Caterane: @ALL: Please send any special requests or changes about your character to the PITLORDS account. I got PMs to my account and Tellish and Jindl too, and some even post it here in the Tavern. It is difficult for the Rosterkeeper to get all this information together. Please, in future send PMs to the pitlords account! Thanks Cat
Tellish_of_Ket 07-28-04, 06:52 PM	Hey Cat, Not trying to add any fuel to the fire and i know you were very busy trying to get everything organized and i can respect that. But i did pm you while you were doing the pairings with the update news about Rhoar. It's right there in the pm. Also, we all know Hatz and Jindl don't get along, any chance we can sub Hatz with another pitlord? If need be, i'll switch out with Hatz. Hatz can do the Harvetser/Brackin fight and i'll take Jindl/Candessa fight. Fair? Thx for your patience and understanding with this. -ToK
MysticMonk2005 07-28-04, 07:22 PM	I have two characters maked ready for 7/28 at level 2. They have been marked thus since tuesday. If two fights could be broken up I can take run the left over fight. Is this possible? Cause if this is a two week pairing, I would like to have atleast one fight. So if that isn't possible, i could activate Sarah, Drahk, or Pard.
Pitlords 07-28-04, 07:24 PM	Substituted Hatzinger and SnarkHunter. Jindl of the High Forest: Last edited by Jindl on 07-28-04 at 08:52 PM Wow Jindl, I guessed 8:55 yesterday. You're getting better :rolleyes: @all: What about the 9 PM deadline? The reason why it had been installed in the first place does no longer apply so I was thinking about removing it again. Additionally, there are "some" out here who use this deadline rule to their advantage. Not everyone wants to sit 5 minutes before 9 infront of his computer just to see which last minute changes have been made! I remember the time when Mo did the pairings. He did it on wednesday but no one knew at which time. There was a risk involved in editing on wednesday for as soon as Mo posted "No more editing" you'd been out if you're not ready. I was thinking about getting back to these times. What do you think? - Cat Edit: MysticMonk, if Ethendril agrees you may edit Pard and get paired against Death Dealer. Write him a PM.
Magagumo 07-28-04, 08:31 PM	I see that I am running Zephin v. Rhoar. Cool :) Either get your tactics to me by Thursday at 4 PM ET (I can try to do it then) but I'd prefer if I can just work on it next Sunday/Monday (8th/9th). Bless board reformats for occurring during family vacations ;)
Ethendril 07-28-04, 10:49 PM	Edit: MysticMonk, if Ethendril agrees you may edit Pard and get paired against Death Dealer. Write him a PM. Edit away.
freemoody 07-28-04, 11:49 PM	@ Ethendril: If you want, Lillith and Dusk can fight. You can re-edit him even. What do you say?
Caterane 07-29-04, 02:16 AM	@Druid Roxors: Thousand thanks for the pictures!! I couldn't download them earlier but it was worth waiting for. Especially the one with the hot pants :smirk: HAHA. No really, any pix of Diab...uh Zedarak :D
Pitlords 07-29-04, 02:34 AM	Level 6 Death Dealer (Ethendril) vs Pard Longfellow (MysicMonk2005): LLMadCow ...has been added to the pairings. LLMadCow, I know you wrote <even> but you're in the negative for some time now and I'd like to see these credits removed. We allowed you to take on negative credits for Clio but sooner or later there must be a redemption. I am also rewarding Ethendril and Kattattack with two credits each for their great help on the World thread. Thank you very much for your efforts!! So guys, I'm going to bed now. 12 hours CoCo is enough for today. - Cat
Druid Roxors 07-29-04, 03:44 AM	NP Cat. :)
Beldin 07-29-04, 04:22 AM	stupid; I didn't know my pitlord status was <zero>. @pitlords: please change that to <even> for the next pairings. Thanks btw, whats the problem with jindl editing jindl at 8.55? I do not think that knowing Jindl's edited char earlier would have changed anything to anyone of his 15 possible opponents.
Hatzinger 07-29-04, 10:22 AM	ToK, Jindl and me DO get along. We just had a little argument. Nothing more.
Ethendril 07-29-04, 11:53 AM	Originally posted by freemoody @ Ethendril: If you want, Lillith and Dusk can fight. You can re-edit him even. What do you say? I initially challenged Aemon (he accepted) to a grudge match, but Dusk rolled out. If Lillith is going to fight, I'd rather see the pairings switched around so our challenge could work. What about Enilias vs. Lillith, and Dusk vs. Aemon?
Pitlords 07-29-04, 12:30 PM	The following change has been made to the roster: Level 11 Aemon (Beldin) vs Dusk (Ethendril): Druid Roxors Lillith (freemoody) vs Enilias Surion (Kaigan): Beldin Please try to set your characters ready on time. There are a lot of pairings this week and even a little change in one league might have an impact on the whole roster (eg someone now's rolled out due to # of PCs in another league, etc)
Caterane 07-29-04, 01:10 PM	@all: Take a look at the pairings. It's crowded and every level has at least one pair! That's so great and I really hope we can increase this number even further. I want to thank those that took their time to add a link to the CoCo into their signatures. If only one member is attracted because of you then your sig was successful. If you want to add a link remember to include the name 'Core Coliseum' into the signature. No one knows what Gladius is or who your characters are. Here's the current signature status; it has also been posted on the Advertisment Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4076326#post4076326) and will continuously be updated. The House of Lords: Caterane Tellish of Ket Jindl Motherbast Ethendril Moherajikuyx WizO_Shadow The House of Commons LLMadCow Hatzinger Beldin Druid Roxors Freemoody Magagumo MysticMonk2005 SnarkHunter Myrridin Cellardweller Pitbull Ashenai Sindorin Market Share Battousai2005 Kattattack22 Aramil Dunskar Rabid Labrador Kedi Dawnlord
Tellish_of_Ket 07-29-04, 02:22 PM	I created a fun poll for the populace. LOL Vote for your favorite 13's. You can chose multiple gladiators. Try not to vote for yourself. :angel: -ToK
Battousai2005 07-29-04, 03:29 PM	Like the new sig?
Beldin 07-29-04, 04:13 PM	Hui; level 11! Freemoody, please write very detailed tactics, so that even a idiot could understand them:rolleyes: . Thanks
freemoody 07-29-04, 07:51 PM	Originally posted by Beldin Hui; level 11! Freemoody, please write very detailed tactics, so that even a idiot could understand them:rolleyes: . Thanks Um....:confused: Okay. I will try. @ Ethendril: Sorry I readied Lillith so late but I didn't know what to do with reguard to wilded Armor and Shields until Wednesday night.
Caterane 07-29-04, 07:58 PM	Freemoody and Battousai, thank you very much for putting a link in your sig. I appreciate that!!! It's a shining example for those who haven't found the time yet to make a link. I'll mark your names on the advertisment thread.
freemoody 07-29-04, 08:08 PM	@ Cat: Thanks :D I'm happy to help the Arena grow. Note that my sig is extra Core. heh (It was a mistake but I think I'll leave it that way.)
Battousai2005 07-29-04, 08:12 PM	Not a problem. Hey, if anything, it made my sig a bit longer;)
Ashenai 07-29-04, 08:17 PM	Testing sig... 1,2,3, testing...
Caterane 07-29-04, 09:05 PM	LOL GREAT!!! http://www.1a-network.de/grafik/guestbook/smilies/freu.gif Perhaps we should make a "Who's the best advertisment sig" competition? It's really cool how everyone has his/her own style. Motherbast asked me for a sig because he couldn't set link so I've sent him one. I hope he hasn't changed it LOL
The Magister 07-29-04, 09:08 PM	heh, nice sig. With all of this excitement going on for the reactivation of the level 13's, and all this advertising for the coliseum, I figured I'd do my own advertising. I got carried away and have edited many things in the Brotherhood of the Arcane Order thread. If anyone has a wizard character, and wants some roleplay, go over there and introduce yourself! ~Sindorin
Druid Roxors 07-29-04, 09:08 PM	I hate sigs... :twitch:
MotherBast 07-29-04, 10:38 PM	Just trying out my new sig, developed by the Arena Bard. And all you newbies thought Cat and I only insulte each other.... we only do that in public. In privet, we are much more civil.... sort of.
Ashenai 07-29-04, 10:40 PM	Cute :turkey::P:turkey:
kattattack22 07-29-04, 11:11 PM	I used to have seeing signatures disabled because when I randomly lurked these boards some people had page long sigs that make Battousai's relatively short. I re-enabled it about a month ago and I like the new advertisements. Some people have gotten really creative in describing the Core Coliseum in a sentence or less. Druid Roxors, Ashenai, Sindorin, Tellish of Ket, MotherBast and LLMadCow all have ones I have found to be quite amusing. Anyway, after 8+ hours of moving bricks it brightens my day. Thanks guys. (BTW, I like Battousai's sig. It has lots of neat quotes. I remember someone once had "If you want to live, get out of my way!" or something similiar. I think was Battousai. Anyway, it was a neat quote.)
Market_Share 07-30-04, 12:49 AM	i'm in the sig-zone! Oh yeah. Thx LL for the links. I kinda modified it, hope you don't mind. ;) SPIKE!
LLMadCow 07-30-04, 01:15 AM	To everyone I owe tactics to, please allow me a little more time. I am pouring over everything and I will send my tactics tomorrow night (Friday night / Saturday morning) EST. If there is an issue, I will see it prior to going to work in the AM and try to address it, otherwise I will get it when I come home tomorrow.
Hatzinger 07-30-04, 05:40 AM	Ashenai, i have hijacked your sig. Send me a million fries or the duck dies!
Hatzinger 07-30-04, 05:58 AM	Hey, pitlords account! I requested no psionic characters and now i got a fight with Zedarak. :behold: We have two weeks time to run fights, right? Then i try to read this psionic nonsense in that time and run the fight. But still... :behold:
Ashenai 07-30-04, 10:29 AM	Heh. I'm honoured that you saw fit to steal my sig, Hatzinger. :) And I never liked the duck anyway.
Druid Roxors 07-30-04, 02:37 PM	Two Things: 1. I found this on the FAQ: Prepared spells: Prepared spellcasters must list half of their prepared spells (rounded down) on their character sheets prior to pairings. These prepared spells may not be changed after pairings. 2. Do NPC spellcasting services cost just what the SRD says?
Jindl 07-30-04, 02:56 PM	1. Yeah, we haven't changed it yet. 2. Yes.
Druid Roxors 07-30-04, 02:58 PM	Thanks!
Ethendril 07-30-04, 03:38 PM	1. Yeah, we haven't changed it yet. By saying it isn't changed yet, do you mean the FAQ is outdated, or that we don't need to memorize spells like this for this week?
Druid Roxors 07-30-04, 04:05 PM	outdated
Battousai2005 07-30-04, 07:14 PM	IMPORTANT!!! The forum upgrade was delayed. So, as I'm not a gamemaster, I have absolutely and utterly...no idea what this means. August 24 is the new date in case anyone is too lazy to read the news section at the top.
Caterane 07-30-04, 08:49 PM	Due to the Forum Upgrade being postponed to AUG 24 we're going back to the normal routine! Two 2-week-pairings would be a bit much in such a short time. However, since many expected to have 2 weeks to post fights, we might extend the late-penalty deadline to tuesday which would result in delaying next weeks pairings to thursday. I'd still prefer to have all pairings done on time so that there won't be any further delay.
Druid Roxors 07-30-04, 08:58 PM	I do not believe changing the plan is a wise thing to do. Many believe that the deadline for tactics is monday and might not think about hte board for a while.
Caterane 07-30-04, 09:07 PM	We'll see. I hope most will be done by tuesday. If there are only one or two missing we'll postpone these fights to next week. There's however no reason to delay all pairings because of one or two fights. We have to wait and see. Oh and Druid, nice sig :thumbsup: I've added you to the list of people willing to help the CoCo grow ;)
Druid Roxors 07-30-04, 09:19 PM	Heh, Thanks!
Caterane 07-30-04, 09:21 PM	Question: Is an area silence to prevent spellcasting an attack for purposes of invisibility? And what about counterspell? Extra-Edit for DruidRoxors :P : If I am invisible and cast an area silence on you while you are spellcasting, do I become visible? If I counterspell your spell while invisible, do I become visible then?
Druid Roxors 07-30-04, 09:23 PM	I dont have the slightest clue of what you mean...
Druid Roxors 07-30-04, 09:30 PM	Nevermind, I was reading it in a different way. If fireball is considered an attack (when in the area) and so is Entangle, Then Silence is considered an attack.
freemoody 07-30-04, 10:58 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Question: Is an area silence to prevent spellcasting an attack for purposes of invisibility? And what about counterspell? Extra-Edit for DruidRoxors :P : If I am invisible and cast an area silence on you while you are spellcasting, do I become visible? If I counterspell your spell while invisible, do I become visible then? The creature or object touched becomes invisible, vanishing from sight, even from darkvision. If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, that vanishes, too. If you cast the spell on someone else, neither you nor your allies can see the subject, unless you can normally see invisible things or you employ magic to do so. Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible. Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as stepping in a puddle). The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area. Invisibility can be made permanent (on objects only) with a permanency spell. Arcane Material Component: An eyelash encased in a bit of gum arabic. --------------- Any spell that you cast that affects a foe.
Caterane 07-31-04, 12:18 AM	Thanks freemoody for helping my laziness in looking it up myself :)
Druid Roxors 07-31-04, 12:44 AM	@ Cat: E-Mail them* to me.
Druid Roxors 07-31-04, 04:38 AM	@ LLMadCow: you do read your PM box do you?
Hatzinger 07-31-04, 05:09 AM	Cat, i am afraid i have to give the Cliodhna vs. Zedarak fight into another´s hands. I can´t learn the psionic rules and run the fight until Tuesday. Two weeks would have been enough, but not a few days. Does someone want to have this fight? Damn i have to hurry up on my other fights, too. I hope i can make them until Tuesday. I calculated with two weeks...
LLMadCow 07-31-04, 05:17 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ LLMadCow: you do read your PM box do you? Why would you accuse me of such vile deeds? :D You don't think I am asleep on the job, do you? :zzz:
cellardweller 07-31-04, 06:05 AM	@Hatz - I'll swap you for Harvey1 vs Arkin if you like.
Hatzinger 07-31-04, 07:11 AM	Ok, cellar. I´ll send you the stuff via email.
cellardweller 07-31-04, 09:08 AM	Harvey's tactics have been forwarded. LL & Katt - Please take note of the pitlord change. LL - Tactics within the next 12 hrs would be appreciated.
MotherBast 07-31-04, 09:35 AM	Spike vs. Roc is posted. Now might be a good time to mention the Allies debate again. I belived we had reaced a final decision on the formula for allies we wanted to incorparate in the debate thread, when do we plan to actually start enforcing that formula?
Sindorin 08-01-04, 12:40 PM	happy birthday to ME, foo's!
Caterane 08-01-04, 01:01 PM	HAPPY BIRTHDAY http://www.1a-network.de/grafik/guestbook/smilies/freu.gif http://www.1a-network.de/grafik/guestbook/smilies/spin.gif SINDORIN!! http://www.1a-network.de/grafik/guestbook/smilies/prost.gif http://www.1a-network.de/grafik/guestbook/smilies/birthday.gif http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/birthday.gif How old? @Magagumo (Mister Always Gaily About Giving Us Maintactics Ontime) PLEEEEEAAASSEEEE!!!!
kattattack22 08-01-04, 01:46 PM	Originally posted by Sindorin happy birthday to ME, foo's! HAPPY BIRTHDAY STEVE! I believe its his 18th. If not, definately 19th.
Ethendril 08-01-04, 01:47 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast Spike vs. Roc is posted. Now might be a good time to mention the Allies debate again. I belived we had reaced a final decision on the formula for allies we wanted to incorparate in the debate thread, when do we plan to actually start enforcing that formula? I'm ready, too.
Caterane 08-01-04, 02:43 PM	We did agree to base it on CR didn't we?
Ethendril 08-01-04, 02:51 PM	It seems like that's what we said...
Caterane 08-01-04, 03:10 PM	I think we agreed on CR-4. I'm a bit hesistant with capping handle animal/undead allies when the strongest ones (druid companions and leadershipers) don't get capped aswell. Creating a cap on HA/undead allies doesn't generate a balance to those that cause the most imbalance ...only to those gladiators without allies. Here's as it is now: X..... X.....X..... X.....X.....X..... X.....X.....X..... X.....X.....X..... X.....X.....X.....O Druid Lead Else NoAllies Here after the CR cap: X..... X.....X..... X.....X.....X X.....X.....X X.....X.....X..... X.....X.....X.....O Druid Lead Else NoAllies My suggestion to balance this completely were mercenaries long ago where it would've looked like that: X..... X.....X..... X.....X.....X..... X.....X.....X.....X X.....X.....X.....X X.....X.....X.....X Druid Lead Else NoAllies* *Now with the option to get a mercenary The Mercenaries would still be the weakest ally (with an appropriate CR cap) but since they didn't invest any classskill/feat or skill but only money it would've been ok. But at least everyone would have had the option to attain an ally even without HA/feat/class-skill.
Druid Roxors 08-01-04, 03:31 PM	Hah! A Dire Bear is CR 7! and gained on level 13 A dire bat is CR 2! and gained on level 4. Druid comopanions have high CR at low levels and thats much like having a warhorse at level 2 being CR 2. Druids' animal companions are competitive because of the prebuffs and link spell. Otherwise they are not worth the class feautre. Give druids Domains and Turn undead instead of companions and im fine with it.
Sindorin 08-01-04, 03:41 PM	Originally posted by kattattack22 HAPPY BIRTHDAY STEVE! I believe its his 18th. If not, definately 19th. Actually, I'm 20 today. and the Chicago Cubs got Nomar. w00t.
MotherBast 08-01-04, 03:44 PM	Cat: The problem is, under the current system, handled animals and undead are stronger than Class allies and Cohorts, which is opposite how things should be. For instance, Spike has a Roc at level 12 using HA. Not even a 20th level druid could get an allie that strong. The best the Druid can do is the T-rex, and up its HD by 2. That gives it a 20HD allie that can't fly, attained at level 20, vs. the Roc attained at level 12 by Spike that can fly and is actually 1 CR higher. Even after imposing the -4 CR cap, HA and undead will still be higher than druid allies in CR. A druid companion can get to 10 CR max, thats CR -10 at level 20, compared to the CR -4 of the HA ability. Thats why I thought we were limiting HA based on HD instead of CR. I belive we had planed to do CR -4 for undead, and for animals limit them to HD = to gladiator +2. I belive that was the formula we decided on, because thats the formula the Druid animal companions follow I think. So, a non-druid can get the same animal at the same level the druid can. But the druid companion's special abilitys still give it an edge. That is how it should be. A class ability allie should defanatly be superior to a skill or spell allie, and allowing them to get the same animals at the same level establishes this. Undead will be limited only by CR -4, meaning that all the current undead will still be legal. Only the Giants would have been over this limit, and Bruno has already abondened them.
kattattack22 08-01-04, 03:48 PM	Originally posted by Sindorin Actually, I'm 20 today. and the Chicago Cubs got Nomar. w00t. Curses! You seemed younger than that (no offense, dude).
Druid Roxors 08-01-04, 03:49 PM	Hey, A druids Animal companion never exeeds in HD = LVL. In fact it is always lower. Only on first level they get a wolf which is HD 2.
Ethendril 08-01-04, 04:12 PM	Rather than open up this discussion anew, why don't we vote on what we all seem to agree on? Then we can add extras later (personally, I'd like to see monster fights cost 1 credit rather than 2).
Caterane 08-01-04, 04:28 PM	Wait a second guys, an animal growthed direbat does NOT have a lower CR than an undead nor is it weaker LOL Motherbast, especially you know how a buffed bat looks like and every buff in it is free because it shares these spells with you. What's the Roc's will save? +9? That beasts hits the ground in no time. Ac17 compared to Ac30 and DR10? The bat has even almost as much hp and is huge. I don't want to think about a buffed animal growthed tyrannosaurus with airwalk *shudders* and Jindl surely equips it with rings, strawhats, and magic underwear. And btw, I'd like to see class allies having to do a monster fight in case of death too. That prevents them from being so careless with their companion.
Druid Roxors 08-01-04, 04:36 PM	You havent thought of the fact that A dire bat is not always animal growthed and that, for instance, a wizard could do the same. Oh, by the way, the official rulling on animal magic slots is this: Only magical collars. Which are not core. So no prob. (although they can wear magical armor as barding and other items like horse-shoes, etc) Perhaps we should get this off the tavern and allow for casual conversation to take presedence.
SnarkHunter 08-01-04, 04:38 PM	A related question. I thought we weren't doing monster fights anymore because the PC won 99% percent of the time.
Druid Roxors 08-01-04, 04:40 PM	I could dispatch a tip for you and others who use HA allies or similar. Buy them a Permanent Greater Magic Fang. 5 Damage per head on a 12 headed hydra... OUCH. 60 damage!
Caterane 08-01-04, 05:08 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors You havent thought of the fact that A dire bat is not always animal growthed and that, for instance, a wizard could do the same. LOL Nooo, they are NEVER animal growthed LOL Come on! Oh, by the way, the official rulling on animal magic slots is this: Only magical collars. Which are not core. So no prob. (although they can wear magical armor as barding and other items like horse-shoes, etc). :eek: Where??? Finally a common sense rule that bans overdressed animals with grandma hats and fashion belts? IMO this whole slot thing is soooo unnecessary because they can't wear anything (except barding). I could dispatch a tip for you and others who use HA allies or similar. Buy them a Permanent Greater Magic Fang. 5 Damage per head on a 12 headed hydra... OUCH. 60 damage! Gr. Magic fang only increases it for one head and it costs about 9000 gp at CL 20 => 108.000 gold OUCH! Oh, and it's dispellable which will happen over time => 108.000 out of the window OUCH. Except you buy two rings of counterspelling for your hydra :rolleyes:
MotherBast 08-01-04, 06:04 PM	Cat: A cleric or Wizy could cast the same spells on its HA allie and make it just as buff. The point is, we need to get non-classed allies back in line. Animal Companions and Special mounts, Familures and the like, none of them have ever been balance breaking. Direlions at level 5 and Storm Giants at level 11, those sorts of allies are what needs to be delt with. I agree with Eth, the Senate needs to go ahead and vote on the formula we have already spent sooooo much time developing, rather than allow this problem to continue to grow with every new monster fight. And Snark: The not doing monster fights was going to come about AFTER these limits were imposed, because it would make sure no gladiator ever had an allie they could not defeat. Under our current system, you can actually fight a monster with a higher CR than your gladiator. (Like Ix vs. the DL, and the Hydra back when he was a low level). Once the limits are in place, monster fights will no longer be necessary, as the outcomes would not be in doubt.
freemoody 08-01-04, 06:27 PM	Lets look at all the Allies for the lvl 13s. Nox the Dire Bat Hit Dice: 10d8 + 40 (85 hp) Spd: 20, Fly 40 (good) AC 30 (+4 armor, -1 size, +6 Dex, +11 natural), touch 15, flat footed 24 BAB/Grapple: +7/+16 Attack: Bite +11 melee (2d6+7) [+3 to hit / +3 damage from GMF] Full Attack: Bite +11/+6 melee (2d6+7) [+3 to hit / +3 damage from GMF] Special Qualities: Low-light vision, Blindsense 40 ft, Link, Share spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack Saves: Fort +11, Ref +14, Will +8 (+4 vs Enchantment effects) Abilities: Str 20, Dex 25, Con 18, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6 Skills: Hide +5, Listen +18*, Move Silently +12, Spot +8* Feats: Alertness, Stealthy, Improved Natural Attack (bite), Hover “Monk-Bane” Pegasus Large animal; HD4d10+4d8+24 hp: 64; speed 70ft, fly130ft (average), AC: 23(+6armor +2dex +6natural-1size), touch 11, FF:21 Base Atk: +8, grapple +17 Atk: +12 melee (1d6+5, hoof), Full Atk +12/+12 (1d6+5 2 hooves) and +7 melee (1d4+2, bite) space/reach 10ft/5ft; Special qualities: Darkvision, Low light vision, scent, emphatic link, improved evasion, Share spells, Share Saving Throws, detect good and detect evil at will 5th level caster, improved speed. Saves: fort:+12, Ref: +9, Will +7; Abilities Str: 21, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 13. Skills: Diplomacy+3, Listen+16, Sense motive: +9, Spot:+10; Feats: Flyby attack, Iron will, Wingover Crimson Sunrise Race: Red Dragon Zombie (very young) Large undead (dragon, fire) neutral evil Statistics: STR....23 (+6) DEX....08 (-1) CON....-- (+0) INT.....-- (+0) WIS....10 (+0) Cha.....01 (-5) Hitpoints:.......156 (20Hd) [116 + 40 (descecrate, shrine)] Bab/Grp:.......+10/+20 Movement:.....40', Fly 150' (clumsy) Initiative:.......-1 Armor Class:...24 (touch 8, flat 24, both 8) [+12natural,-1dex,-1size,+4armor] Saves: For +6 Ref +6 Will +12 Feats: Toughness Skills: none Racial: Damage reduction 5/slashing, Immunity to cold and fire, Undead, Single actions only Attacks: [+10bab,+6str,-1size] Bite: +15 melee, 2d8+9 (20/x2), 10ft reach Encumberance: Light load: 600 lb or less; Medium load: 601-1200 lb; Heavy load: 1201-1800 lb Nightingale[b/] Race: Nightmare Cauchemar Skeleton Huge undead (extraplanar) neutral evil Statistics: STR....31 (+10) DEX....16 (+3) CON....-- (--) INT.....-- (--) WIS....10 (+0) Cha.....01 (-5) Hitpoints:.......133 hp (15Hd) [103 + 30 (desecrate, shrine)] Bab/Grp:.......+7/+25 Movement:.....40', fly 90' (good) Initiative:.......+7 Armor Class:...14 (touch 11, flat 11, both 8) [+3dex,+3natural,-2size] Saves: For +5 Ref +8 Will +9 Feats: Improved initiative Skills: none Racial: Immunity to cold, Damage reduction 5/bludgeoning, Undead Attacks: Full attack: 2 Hooves and 1 Bite Hoof: +15 melee, 2d6+10 (20/x2), 10ft reach Bite: +10 melee, 2d6+5 (20/x2), 10ft reach Encumberance: Light load: 3672 lb or less [b]Cohort: Mystic NG Female Pixie 7th level Wizard [ECL 11] Planar Ally Gabriel Male Neutral Aasimar Druid 10 Medium Outsider (Native) Sanzin, The Lover. Male Human Sorcerer 11 I'd say Leadership and the Planar Ally was most powerful, followed by Class Allies.
MotherBast 08-01-04, 07:26 PM	I would agree Free. The point is, none of those allies violate the caps we want to impose. Now concider Spike's Roc at level 12. Over 200 HP, Over +20 to attack. 15' reach, flight speed, blah blah blah... the Roc is obviously the most powerful allie possesed by any gladiator at the moment. Now concider also the Undead giant skellys Bruno used to use. Again, HP higher than any gladiator of that level, Attack bonuses reaching the 30s, damage of 30+ per hit, and just being undead making it immune to fort and will saves. Again, more powerful than any other allie at this level. The point isen't to remove or lessen the allies the current level 13s use, but to prevent potential abuses in the future, like the giants and direlions used to be.
Caterane 08-01-04, 08:35 PM	MB, wizards can not cast animal growth and they need TWICE as much spells and TWICE as much time to get their companion similar buffed than the druid. And when the wizard and druid are both out of spells after that, the treehugger just wildshapes and melee. But as I said, a druid doesn't run out of spells as soon as a buff mage. Freemoody, we don't want to forget the stats of a BUFFED direbat ;) Ever seen the Harvester buffing his mount?
Jindl 08-01-04, 08:48 PM	Originally posted by Caterane MB, wizards can not cast animal growth and they need TWICE as much spells and TWICE as much time to get their companion similar buffed than the druid. And when the wizard and druid are both out of spells after that, the treehugger just wildshapes and melee. But as I said, a druid doesn't run out of spells as soon as a buff mage. Freemoody, we don't want to forget the stats of a BUFFED direbat ;) Ever seen the Harvester buffing his mount? First off: From the SRD: Animal Growth Transmutation Level: Drd 5, Rgr 4, Sor/Wiz 5 Secondly: Almost never does a druid's animal companion remain within 5 ft of him to take advantage of the share spells ability. A wizards familiar or a paladins special mount both get much more use from this ability because both are almost always within 5 ft of their master. Thirdly: The Harvester's mount has a fly speed of 90 (good), a str of 31, huge size, and all the immunities of the undead type. It certainly has the advantage compared to the druid's dire bat which has a fly speed of 40 (good), a str of ~19, large size, and one of the weakest types - animal. The difference in Str alone means that the harvester's mount is much more likely to hit and deals more damage than the druid's companion, not to mention that most of the time, the druid's companion is not even strong enough to carry the druid aloft. And the Harvester's mount can fly circles around him as well, getting more attacks on a full attack, etc. Face the facts, the harvester's mount is more powerful than any druid's animal companion at level 9 (when he acquired him) and at level 13, where he is now. And this powerful ally is not a class feature, but a seperate CR for the encounter. Unlike the druid's ally, who is a class feature and is therefore balanced as part of the druid's CR. You can't ignore these truths. Animated allies (and handled animals) raise the EL of facing the gladiators that have them, unlike class feature allies, who are already a part of the CR of their masters. Which one is really unbalanced?
Caterane 08-01-04, 09:12 PM	1) So animate dead is not a part of the class' abilities? What makes you think so? 2) You just have to write "Bat always stays in reach" and the pitlord complains. I've never seen someone using bullrush to seperate them asides from it being almost impossible against a STR 30 huge bat. And animal growth needs not even be shared! 3) Command undead gives YOU control over my undead with no save. I know, Spell immunity but you can still dispel it which makes my mount a timebomb under my seat. A direbat is much more "devoted" 4) Speaking of saves, should we compare them? Nightingale +5/+8/+9 compared to whatever over 20 with just one or two spells. 5) I have to care for Nightingale else I have to pay money and make a monster fight. The Direbat is a throw-away item. Who cares what happens to it? 6) Most importantly: Neither Nightingale nor Crimson ever dealt much damage, if any at all. However, so often I see the Direbat tearing chunks of flesh out of any foe. I use the undeads as mounts that won't die instantly, that's it. And they suit the Harvester roleplay-wise.
SnarkHunter 08-01-04, 09:51 PM	Oh (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?postid=2359247#post235924 7) yes (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2479301#post2479301), clearly Nightingale is nothing more then a platform-a huge sized ferry designed to move you, the only important figure, from square to square. Not powerful at all.
Jindl 08-01-04, 10:02 PM	Originally posted by Caterane 1) So animate dead is not a part of the class' abilities? What makes you think so? Actually, I said it wasn't a class feature. It is a spell that you can cast. However, in DnD, when a cleric is encountered with undead allies, the undead have a seperate and distinct CR, which adds to the encounter level. When a druid/paladin/wizard is encountered with their class feature ally, the ally is included in the character's CR. That's a big difference. Another point on this, if animate dead was a class feature, then there would be a balancing class feature for good aligned clerics (or nuetral clerics of good dieties), who cannot cast the spell because it has an evil descriptor. Originally posted by Caterane 2) You just have to write "Bat always stays in reach" and the pitlord complains. I've never seen someone using bullrush to seperate them asides from it being almost impossible against a STR 30 huge bat. And animal growth needs not even be shared! First, my point exactly was that animal companions are more useful when they don't remain close to the druid, unlike familiars and special mounts, which are more useful when they do remain close to the wizard or paladin. But, since you mention that the animal growthed bat has a Str of 30, I'll point out that Nightingale has a Str of 31 without any buffing spells. Originally posted by Caterane 3) Command undead gives YOU control over my undead with no save. I know, Spell immunity but you can still dispel it which makes my mount a timebomb under my seat. A direbat is much more "devoted" Funny you should mention "devoted", especially since your undead mount is completely immune to mind-affecting effects. And although there are a very small number of spells that work on undead, like command undead, animals have their own problems, like the 1st level spell, Hide from Animals, which happens to be available to everyone as a potion, instead of command undead, which only wizards can cast. Originally posted by Caterane 4) Speaking of saves, should we compare them? Nightingale +5/+8/+9 compared to whatever over 20 with just one or two spells. Well, dire bats need better saves, because they have half the hps of the undead, and the undead are immune to so many things (fire, cold, mindaffecting effects, illusions, etc.). Not to mention that an unbuffed Nightingale has that DR 5/bludgeoning, which is much better than the animal growthed dire bat, whose DR is bypassed by any magic weapon. Plus, I find it odd that you want to compare an unbuffed Nightingale to a dire bat who recieved a 5th level spell. Shouldn't we be comparing unbuffed versions of each? I mean, I'm sure that if the Harvester used a 5th level spell to buff Nightingale, then that skeleton would remain more powerful than the dire bat. Originally posted by Caterane 5) I have to care for Nightingale else I have to pay money and make a monster fight. The Direbat is a throw-away item. Who cares what happens to it? 6) Most importantly: Neither Nightingale nor Crimson ever dealt much damage, if any at all. However, so often I see the Direbat tearing chunks of flesh out of any foe. I remember when the Elder faced the Harvester. The only creature who dealt damage to the Elder was Nightingale. At the Harvester's command, Nightingale grappled the Elder and killed him. And that was a Lvl 9 fight when the Elder had like 60 hps. Originally posted by Caterane I use the undeads as mounts that won't die instantly, that's it. And they suit the Harvester roleplay-wise. You may claim that to be true, but I think the real reason you chose the undead mount was to gain a powerful ally that could provide you with a vast movement advantage. Your speed on Nightingale is effectively Fly 140, because the Harvester can still take a standard action while Nightingale double moves. Your speed on Crimson Sunrise is Fly 150, for the same reason. No class feature ally can compare with this advantage. Not even the overpowered phantom steed spell can compare, because it can't fly until caster level 14, while your mounts were gained at level 9. Oh, and the phantasmal steed is dispellable and has like 25 hps, compared to the 133 and 155 hps of your mounts. Oh, and the wizard had to use a Lvl 4 slot for the extended spell prebuff. I think I prove my point pretty well. But just in case, the point is that animated dead allies (and handle animal allies) are WAY overpowered. I could also prove that they are not a good representation of a campaign, which is something I believe the CoCo should try to be. I mean, how many times in a campaign can you raise a Roc from infantsy to train it to be a mount, or hunt down a cauchemare at 9th level to slay/animate as an undead ally? Now, how many campaigns have druids with animal companions or paladins with special mounts? @Snark - lol :love:
MotherBast 08-01-04, 10:13 PM	1. The ability to cast spells is a class feature, but particular spells and their effects are not. It is not a "class Feature" for a cleric to be able to give himself Fighter BAB with a spell, the same as it isen't a class feature for a Wizard to drop fireballs. Neither are the allies created by spells "class features." And as Jindl pointed out, the big difference is, Handel Animal and Undead allies incress the overall CR of the encouter, while class feature allies are part of the CR of there master. So, a 13th level Druid with a Direbat allie is a CR 13 encounter, while a 13 level cleric with a CR 9 or 10 undead/animal is a CR 14 encounter. The new formula limits allies to low enough not to signifacently increase the CR of the encounter. 2. Animal Growth does not need to be shared. But it wouldn't for a Wizard either. The share spells ability will only work for a druid under limited circumstances, such as when facing a pure melee build that must come to him. Aginst most other types, the allie does not have the option to remain with the druid. The stats look good on paper, but in play, rarely have any actual effect on the fight. As a matter of fact, Dra'kel has only gotten to fully buff Dusty in 2 fights. One I won, the other I lost. So, in the 8 or so fights I've had with Dusty, the link ability has only helped me in 1. 3. Handeled animals need no spell to control. Plus, you need only fear your control beeing dispelled when faceing a caster build. Melees still have no defence aginst your undead. 4. You forgot to mention that Nightingale is also immune to Fort and Will saves, so his +s in those catagories don't really matter. The only save he needs is Reflex, and there are not insta-kill reflex spells, only damage. He has enough HP to take 3 or 4 failed reflex hits before dropping. Any other allie needs to worry about all 3 saves. 5. Under the new system, you would not need a monster fight to regain your undead, only the cost to actually animate it. Less than you would pay for a potion of Fly probably. Concidering your Undead's resistances and imuniteys make it extreamly hard to kill, your not likely to even need to pay that cost more than once or twice. Not bad at all for the services of such a powerfull allie. (The movement speed alone is worth the price.) 6. Compare your damage unbuffed with either to the average damage of even an Animal Growthed bat. The average damage will still be higher for the Nightmare. The bat has a higher att bonus, (by 3ish), but the Nightmare gets one extra attack, and has a higher strengh bonus. The reason your's don't get the oppertunity to deal that kind of damage is because you use them for mobility instead of combat. That is a decision you have made. It does not detract from the mounts ability to deal that kind of damage if you chose to use it that way. Anyway, its kind of pointless to compare these two allies, as neither of them will be affected by the new rules. Nightingale is CR -4 from the Harvys, so he/she need not fear the new rules. They were not designed to nurff these types of allies/mounts. The new rules were designed to nurff abuse of the HA skill and Create Undead spell. Personaly, I think Nightingale is on par with exactly the kind of allie a mounted character needs at that level. It is practly impossible to kill without specific preperation, which will be difficult with the new pre-mem rules, but not so powerful that it guarentees Harvy a win. No, the types of allies we need to look at are the ones I mentioned before. Things like Direlions at level 5, Storm Giants at 11, and Rocs at 12. These allies are just obviously more powerful than anything else at those levels, and do give their owners significant edges at those levels. Its this kind of abuse that needs nurffing. The new rules would do just that. It would elimate the rediclous allies, while leaving practical mounts like Nightingale in place. It alows those with access to HA and Create Undead to get mounts/allies on par with those of Class features, but not to break the system by getting allies that are more powerful than those. It still wont help those without access to allies much, but it will be closer to balance at least. Most of those classes without access to an allie are sneaky types anyway, (monks or Rogues), who wouldn't want to be burdended with a big target anyway. I know Brackin wouldn't want a big animal following him around while he hides and sneaks. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I see Nightingale as a good example of a practical allie for level 13. Nightingale good, big friggin giant bad. Nightingale good, T-Rex bad (and it is entirely possible to get a T-Rex at level 8 or 9 with good HA skill and a potion of Fly. This is the sort of brokenness that needs to be removed.) Nigtingale has advantages that put it above the tipical class feature allie, in stats alone, but lacks the special abilitys of one. This is a good balance. Allies that are just far above and beyond a Nox or a Nightingale should deffanatly not be allowed. It should deffanatly not be possible to atain an animal before the Druid can. The new system is a big step in the right direction twords re-balancing the currently broken allies system. I for one have been waiting 6 months to see it come to frutation, ever since the 13s froze. Its time for this problem to be delt with. We have already debated it 3 times. We decided on a proposition, and now all that remains is to vote on that propostion. Why are we even still talking about it? Thats what the debate thread was for. Thats where we worked out exactly how the system should work. Now, we just need to vote to see if we will be inacting it.
Caterane 08-01-04, 10:49 PM	Jindl, before replying to every point... what I'm saying is that Nox gets FREE buffs. When the Harvester casts a 5th level spell on Nightingale it's gone but the druid can benefit from it aswell. It seems we have different opinons on this, so what. Let's agree they are equal and everyone is happy. I agree with Motherbast and I'll vote CR-4 aswell (as everyone apparently) and this will prevent inappropriate allies so the class ally vs HA ally issue will be settled. What won't be solved is the problem with classes who don't have a high enough CHA for leadership and no rnaks in HA and no spell/class feature. A good cleric for example, or a rogue, monk. They can't acquire an ally and this is what I wanted to solve with the mercenaries. I know this has been voted against but many of those who voted did so because they feared Frostgiants accompanying Lvl 5 characters which would've never been possible. Perhaps a new discussion may explain it.
Ethendril 08-01-04, 11:42 PM	Is this the slowest weekend in the history of COCO? Besides MB's monster fight, no fights posted all weekend. And this on a week with many, many fights. I want to read some fights!
Druid Roxors 08-01-04, 11:47 PM	Originally posted by Caterane :eek: Where??? Finally a common sense rule that bans overdressed animals with grandma hats and fashion belts? IMO this whole slot thing is soooo unnecessary because they can't wear anything (except barding). Masters of the Wild. Since its the latest rulling to that, its official. This does not apply to wildshaped/polymorphed/shapechanged characters because the rulling from sage over-rides it.
Jindl 08-02-04, 12:04 AM	@Druid - MotW is not Core. @Ethendril - I think everyone was expecting 2 weeks to run fights. FYI: Cat made the decision to switch back without consulting me (and I don't know if he consulted Tellish). Personally, I would have rather stuck with the 2 week pairings. @MB - Though I agree with your idea as a step in the right direction, I don't think its a big enough step. As I already illustrated, Nightingale is much more powerful than any of the class feature allies at that level (or any level less than this). Why should a cleric/wizard who has a full array of class features, have such easy access to the most powerful allies in the game, while other classes that were designed specifically to have allies (druids/paladins) had to give up class features like bonus feats and domain spells/abilities to get allies that are weaker? Personally, I think that allies should be limited by HD not CR. A 20 HD skeleton is significantly tougher than its CR 8 implies. Indeed, Nightingale is a 16 HD skeleton and has more hps than any gladiator at 13th level. I really don't think it is an appropriate ally at this level. @Caterane - And my point was that druids almost never share spells with their animal companions. So although animal growth can target 1 animal/caster level, most other buffs have to be cast individually, because the animal companion rarely stays within 5 ft of its master. As I told MB, I certainly don't believe that animated allies are equal to any other type. I think they are still far more powerful. Just look at the fights Snark linked. Nightingale killed Nox with a full attack and a standard attack. Nox barely injured the skeleton. That was at ECL 12, only one level back (and based on the CR-4 rule, Nightingale- CR 7, would be legal at ECL 11). I would like to see the complete elimination of handled animals and animated dead. Purchased mounts, cohorts, class feature allies, would all still be available. As would figurines of wondrous power, which could still easily fit the Harvesters needs (like the obsidian steed or the ivory goats). You do realize that for a magic item to mimic what Nightingale is, you spend > 28000 gp (which is like 25% of the Harvester's wealth). But under your rules, the Harvester gets the ally for a measly 550 gp for the material spell components. What a bargain.
LLMadCow 08-02-04, 12:16 AM	Originally posted by Jindl I could also prove that they are not a good representation of a campaign, which is something I believe the CoCo should try to be. Since when is the CoCo trying to be a representation of an actual campaign? I have made this arguement and pleaded with people to be more like a campaign and been shot down on many instances. Mind you, I am all in favor of being more like a campaign, but people need to make a stance - either be more like a campaign, or don't. There is no reason to be whimsical and simply go with what suits our personal interests. So, from now one we are going to try to be more like a real campaign? Should we put it to a vote? Originally posted by Jindl I mean, how many times in a campaign can you raise a Roc from infantsy to train it to be a mount, or hunt down a cauchemare at 9th level to slay/animate as an undead ally? Well, the wonderful thing about a FANTASY game is that anything is possible. Rules are made and within the rules it can happen. So, in MY CAMPAIGN I say the person can raise a Roc from a hatchling and if dedicated enough someone could slay/animate a cauchemare.
Druid Roxors 08-02-04, 12:21 AM	Although, MOTW is the latest on regard to that rule, lets leave it be that you can equip your animal companion as you would a character. So can you equip your Nightingale, so there is nothing wrong with it then.
Jindl 08-02-04, 12:22 AM	@LL - I've always supported trying to make the CoCo more representative of a real campaign. But I must ask, how many times in a real campaign do the characters take years off from adventuring the rear a baby Roc (or other beast) to adulthood? How many adventurers spend significant game time hunting down a creature as rare and powerful as a Cauchmare to slay/animate? Especially given the difficulties of having such a powerful undead ally when you try to visit town, etc. Every druid has an animal companion and every paladin has a special mount. These are normal parts of a campaign. Self reared handled animals and animated dead allies are not usually normal parts of a campaign.
Jindl 08-02-04, 12:24 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Although, MOTW is the latest on regard to that rule, lets leave it be that you can equip your animal companion as you would a character. So can you equip your Nightingale, so there is nothing wrong with it then. Actually, I was very impressed with the work that Hatz, Ash, and Batt combined to produce on this topic. That's the standard I think we should use in the CoCo, until at some point WoTC gives more clarity to the issue. See the link here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=279263)
LLMadCow 08-02-04, 12:41 AM	Originally posted by Jindl @LL - I've always supported trying to make the CoCo more representative of a real campaign. But I must ask, how many times in a real campaign do the characters take years off from adventuring the rear a baby Roc (or other beast) to adulthood? How many adventurers spend significant game time hunting down a creature as rare and powerful as a Cauchmare to slay/animate? Especially given the difficulties of having such a powerful undead ally when you try to visit town, etc. Every druid has an animal companion and every paladin has a special mount. These are normal parts of a campaign. Self reared handled animals and animated dead allies are not usually normal parts of a campaign. And then... Enter Gladius! The city where time flows of it's own accord, life and death don't function normally and some of the most incredible battles occur. Wizards do not have to wait a year for a new familiar... Characters do not lose a level when ressurected.... Zedarak, Ixidor, and others would not often be found in the average city. The point is that Gladius is far from average and we have decided long ago that the normal rules that dictate a normal campaign don't apply.
Ashenai 08-02-04, 09:42 AM	Angosh vs. The Professor is up. Oh my, who will win? Oh, the excitement, it's too much. :rolleyes:
Caterane 08-02-04, 06:37 PM	FYI: Cat made the decision to switch back without consulting me (and I don't know if he consulted Tellish). You wrote me a PM and I answered. But let's not start a discussion who of us is doing things here without consulting the others, right? I would like to see the complete elimination of handled animals and animated dead. Purchased mounts, cohorts, class feature allies, would all still be available. Eliminating all allies except the ones you have access to is a no go. Well, it is your opinion, ok, so we have to respect it. ...on the other hand, it has also been your opinion to do nothing against spellcaster overpower ("reluctantly decided for spells rounded up") and after reading the Angosh vs Dr.Dre fight we'll see how much balance your opinion brings. @Druid - MotW is not Core. Neither are the clarifications on the WotC homepage or Skip's skips. This is an official ruling from WotC but here you're going to ignore it. Mr. Ruleslawyer, don't you agree that a +20 net bonus to abilities is a bit much for LA+2? No? Not surprised. But of course, this is your opinion so you have a right to say this But I must ask, how many times in a real campaign do the characters take years off from adventuring the rear a baby Roc (or other beast) to adulthood? How many adventurers spend significant game time hunting down a creature as rare and powerful as a Cauchmare to slay/animate? Especially given the difficulties of having such a powerful undead ally when you try to visit town, etc. Every druid has an animal companion and every paladin has a special mount. These are normal parts of a campaign. Self reared handled animals and animated dead allies are not usually normal parts of a campaign. Yes, and every paladin fights for money in an arena, even killing good people. Ok, let's go campaign and remove their status after 1 fight. And every druid uses his companion as cannon fodder because he can ALWAYS get a new one in no time and no DM would object even if it's for the 50ft time. Alright, let's do it like in a campaign: Jindl: I send my Direbat kamikazee against the Firegiant to get time to buff savely for some rounds. DM: Of course. I see no problem with your nature CoC here *rolls* Oh, the bat died but I assume that you cast 'instant summon companion' anyway. Here's a new throwaway companion, Nox XVII Perhaps that's the way you DM it in your group but then, your group doesn't reflect a real campaign either. If you want to do some balance, propose a way how a melee gladiator like Angosh has a chance against a spellcaster like Dre. Ah wait! "Only the strongest survive", right? Ah, of course, then everything's ok.
LLMadCow 08-02-04, 06:38 PM	Rules of the Core Collosseum There are no rolls out of the arena. This has been a longstanding rule that I have always felt shortchanged many of the players and their available tactics. I have seen its impact on my characters, and I am sure many others out there would have done things differently, if allowed. What I propose is that we radify this rule. As the rule stands, people cannot use Poisons[/] outside of combat, unless they have a special ability that makes them immune. (This, in particular, got me steamed since I had a character who managed to successfully apply poison to their weapons and lose the fight! The result [I]should have been that the weapon was still poisoned since I wasted actions in a fight to get it that way, but the ruling was that it was removed and had to be done over again!) As the rule stands, people cannot use [I]Use Magic Device[/] outside of combat, even though it has plenty of legitimate reasons to be used. I am sure that there are other areas that this rule impacts, but given what I have listed as two fine examples, I have a recommendation: There are no rolls outside of the posted fight. The end result is that when a person wants to apply poison, the roll is made as if they were applying it prior to the fight; if they make a mistake, the mistake comes into play when they fight. If they have a way to heal/cure/restore when the fight starts, then they would be allowed to do that whenever they wanted to, once the fight has started. (In an extreme response, the player could pay for the poison, a Potion of [Whatever fixes poison] and cover all of the bases; realistically the impact is the same. If I was risking poisoning myself, I would likely have the ability to heal myself on hand as well; anything short of that has in impact on the fight I am preparing for!) In the example of Use Magic Device, the player would have to detail what they want, and the Pitlord running the fight would make the quick rolls. This is a really simple solution that benefits everyone. [Note: This was originally made as it's own thread, but it was requested that I at least address it in the tavern.]
Tellish_of_Ket 08-02-04, 07:56 PM	I don't think we should eliminate the delay'd pairings. We've already said it and being a long weekend, most wouldn't get the message until now or tomorrow. I myself won't be able to run the fight until wednesday, so it would be kind of unfair to those who've taken off for the weekend, to just suddenly announce NO DELAY any longer. The 2 week pairing suggestion was more to give the 13's time with their tactics, characters and refamiliarization with tactics than the Forums Upgrade. It just worked out as a coincedence is all. That's my opinion anyhow. We should still do a two-week pairing. @Jindl: your box is full. -ToK
Jindl 08-02-04, 08:23 PM	@ToK - I concur. This remains a 2 week pairings. Everyone can take a deep breath, take our time, and do a good job on this week's fights without having to rush. That being said, all tactics should be in by tomorrow. Pitlords can begin running fights on default tactics on Wed. Fights will be due on Sunday (to allow an extra day for review/discussion). Late penalties will apply on Monday. -Jindl PS - I cleaned out a little space in the PM box.
Druid Roxors 08-02-04, 09:54 PM	If I could get a pair of Elder responses on this it would be marvelous. I'm done running the Aemon Vs Dusk fight (which will not be posted today) and I came across one curious rule tidbit. On the very last round on the very last attack where it matters most. The outcome of the battle is at stake. Read on if you are not Beldin or Ethendril so as to not spoil any surprises. (highlight the text) On the very last round, AC could Confirm/unconfirm a critical hit! This could end the battle. The problem is that Dusk is supposed to use expertise but he is now charging. I wondered if the feat works as it needs an "Attack Action". Is the attack at the end of a charge considered an "Attack Action" or is it just a "Melee Attack"? PS. Please respond in White.
Caterane 08-02-04, 09:55 PM	Well, we HAVE to make it a 2 week pairings else we would stand in negative credit rain, and I didn't even get tactics for Bruno. At least I can extend my story a bit.
Caterane 08-02-04, 10:02 PM	Well, we HAVE to make it a 2 week pairings else we would stand in negative credit rain, and I didn't even get tactics for Bruno. At least I can extend my story a bit. @Tellish: You have the pitlord account. If you don't have time I can take over instead. Violations on Dr.Dre eliminated. Thanks again Ashenai!!
Jindl 08-02-04, 10:05 PM	@Druid - Here is a response you can consider official (highlight below): Expertise can be used in conjunction with any attack that occurs in melee, including charge attacks, grapple attacks, and melee touch spells. It functions exactly like power attack in this regard, and we have seen power attack used a multitude of times when PC's charged.
Druid Roxors 08-02-04, 10:06 PM	Boards are acting wierd again Cat. It took me 5 attempts to edit the above post... @ Jindl: Thanks for clarifying. A little picture of what happened on the fight is right below... Dusk: 56/106 (16,-5,1), Obscuring Mists (Long), Freedom of Movement (Long), Shield of Faith (Long), Entropic Shield (Long), Bear’s Endurance (Long), Delay Poison (Long), Aid (Long), Fly (Long), Divine Favor (2/10), Divine Power (1/7)
freemoody 08-02-04, 10:34 PM	I have a question about grappling. Some people on the boards think that it is impossible to maintain a grapple on someone who is mounted. But it seems odd to me that being mounted is all someone has to do to be immune to being grappled. I know it says that you have to move into their space and that normally isn't allowed at all. If grappling allows you to move into someones space, then surely it allows you to move into their mounts space also. Lillith loves to grapple and I would hate it if she couldn't grapple someone just because they are mounted. Please shed some light on this please. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v347/freemoody/spanka.gif edited for gratuitous spanking!!!
Druid Roxors 08-02-04, 10:37 PM	Simple: On the first round you charge to grapple a mounted character. On round two, you have to let go unless you go into his space BUT you can also grapple the mount and thus you can move to their space. Alternatively, you can take the Improved Grab Monster feat. You pull them to your space rather than the other way arround. Problem Solved. Or you have no problem when you are a Dire bear ;)
Jindl 08-02-04, 10:44 PM	Can someone show me the rule that says you can't maintain a grapple on a mounted character? @Druid - Improved Grab is not a feat, but an extraordinary special attack. However, you are correct that if Lillith were to take Dire Bear shape, she would have this special attack and would pull her opponent off their mount and into her square by using it.
Druid Roxors 08-02-04, 11:26 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Druid - Improved Grab is not a feat, but an extraordinary special attack. However, you are correct that if Lillith were to take Dire Bear shape, she would have this special attack and would pull her opponent off their mount and into her square by using it. Ah, yes :)
Tellish_of_Ket 08-03-04, 03:33 AM	Nothing prevents you from grappling a mounted character and entering their square. -ToK
MotherBast 08-03-04, 07:16 AM	Indeed. Brackin has grappled several mounted characters in the past, and I have always just assumed if you grappel a mounted character, then you also mount its mount to maintain the grapple. (Net necessarly ride the mount or anything, just move into its space.)
Caterane 08-03-04, 09:17 AM	@ALL: I'm gonna post this as often as necessary, until someone replies, and especially Jindl who never answers to this topic! Dr.Dre vs Angosh. Before the fight I wrote this in my headline: "Ready for... to show once again that melee gladiators have no chance against spellcasters". So, should a player be able to fortunetell the outcome of the battle? Should anyone be so assured that he wins? Would anyone write this into his headline when fighting a cleric or druid? No. But if you're a spellcaster you rider the fighter's back at this level. When I fought Aemon I prolonged the fight voluntarily to enfeeble, exhaust, curse, enervate him. I played with him because I could! Well, Aemon rolled a lot of 18,19,20 saves but I was still never in danger - despite my nonfocused tactics and his incredible luck. I wanted to show in the Angosh fight how the Aemon fight could've gone aswell, and see: 3 rounds and Angosh did never even come close. I don't know what else you need. That's like 10 planes crashing into the WTC and everyone's saying "Damn, those pilots need a better education!" (sorry but this seemed a fitting anekdote) or "Only the strong buildings survive". I remember the BIG EFFORT that was needed just to convince the majority that full memorization is not only balanced but FAIR aswell. I don't want to press this into your eyes until you see it but open your eyes and admit the truth! That said, I don't think the level cap on allies is a good idea! Marketshare said, it's his only chance to compete with casters and how right he is! NO ONE complains when wizards eat, incinerate, willsave kill, enervate, or killspell the fighter without any danger or effort BUT EVERYONE CRIES LOUD BEFORE MIKE EVEN USED THE ROC!!! What's up guys? This is - IMHO - ridiculous! Ridiculous. Ixidor has a hydra, so what? Arkin - a halfling - ATE Ixidor despite the hydra! Did anyone come to Ixidor's defense and said "Wow, a wizard beats fighter in melee. Something's wrong here"? No, instead everyone says "Hey! Ixidor has a hydra!! That's overpowered!" Wow. I...am...speechless. I'd like to hear some definate replies to this, adressing the problem! And if you think that we don't have a problem, please answer my points and explain your point of view. And I don't want to hear "Fighters are supposed to be weaker" because this is not how the CoCo should function!!! Such arguments just confirm what I said. - Cat
Tellish_of_Ket 08-03-04, 09:45 AM	Everyonce in a while, something happens to change ones perception of things. I believe in the last little while, i've been seeing more and more evidence that whatever means gladiators without class ability allies are doing to gain them, they rarely make a difference in fights. Yup, sometimes they do make a difference, and that's when it comes in handy and is actually usefull. A wizard's polymorph is "never useless" from fight to fight. It is always a killer against meleers when used as such. There are times when the ally assists in overcomming the wizard, such as Kage did a couple weeks ago, but that also has a lot to do with bad planning on the wizards part AND some lucky rolls on Kage's part. There were 6 images and he struck the wizard on the first attack. That's luck. Either way, when the cap is applied to those with handle animal pets, this will be a great injustice to those that rely upon them, making them easier targets for casters. I didn't think there was anything overly wrong with the current ally system, but did think it could have been reduced to "just class abilities". However, as the weeks go by i see more and more how wrong it was to stay with that point. The currently applied system of HA/Animate doesn't unbalance anything and in fact looks more and more like it's assisting in the balace. I mean, a 13th sorcerer with an 11 wizard companion through leadership is far, far more powerful than Spike with his Roc. And what we are all arguing here is to nerf HA? They are clearly the weakest of the allies. Again, let's not forget the man that did 274 pts in just a few hits to kill it and ask yourself who's more powerful? Anyhow, that's my point. -ToK
LLMadCow 08-03-04, 10:45 AM	:rant: People have always fascinated me. So, observing the CoCo and everyone within interests me as well. If anyone is willing to take the time to red through the many different posts and topics, you will be able to observe the ebb and flow of the BALANCE of POWER. This is also reflected in where people perceive the power needs to be preserved. Right now, Caterane, Tellish_of_Ket, and LLMadCow are fighting tooth and nail to see some sort of balance restored in the arena before we spiral out of control. I wish that more polls had been taken in the past on specific issues to point out how much people change, but I am going to list some of the attitude changes that have a huge impact and worry me the most.... Two Schools of Thought Anti-Spellcaster The Spellcasters ARE too powerful. Balance in the arena is MORE important than realism to an actual campaign. vs Pro-Spellcaster The Spellcasters are NOT too powerful. Balance in the arena is LESS important than realism to an actual campaign. In the past, the majority voted and spoke against the spellcaster; the few who didn't want to unfairly cripple the spellcaster lived with it and learned. Overtime, some of those who had been Pro-Spellcaster recognized the true power of Spellcasters and held to the importance of balance in the arena, becoming anti-spellcaster, or more appropriately, pro-fighter-balance. This would all be nice if it weren't for the fact that many of those who were once in favor of restricting the spellcasters hadn't also changed their minds. :banghead: You know what? Sometimes it takes a long, thought out post to see the light, but... Back to the books! I am realizing that some of the votes / debates may not have been that clear cut. Although any particular vote / discussion may have been treated as 'Spellcaster vs. non-spellcaster' the truth is they were always more specific. Spellcasters are a varied lot. Sometimes it was Fighter vs. [Those with a spellbook] or [Those who wildshape] or [Those who cast Divine] or [Those who cast arcane]. :teach: I guess to wrap up my rambling, I really want to encourage people to get involved with the debates. Understand the importance of balance within the arena. Make knowledgeable votes and don't just go with the popular vote.
Myrridin 08-03-04, 11:00 AM	I don't really participate in the debates, because of the method of debating I've witnessed. It seems that in order to prove you're right, you have to be arrogant, condescending, and willing to post a lot. Since I'm pretty easy-going in regards to how this works out, I choose to stay out of it, and read what's happening in the COCO. That said, how else are we going to nerf spellcasters, let them memorize spells only every other fight? I guess that's fair, it more simulates campaigns. Though it does seem rather arbitrary. Going by that logic, I guess the fighter should only get to use half of his/hers class abilites every fight, you know, just to keep it fair. I agree that the COCO should have some balance, but it does seem that every few months there's another class that someone's crying is overpowered, so it gets nerfed.
Ethendril 08-03-04, 11:55 AM	@Cat I believe this debate was alive and well long before the Roc, and almost everyone had agreed that this limitation should be the first step here. The problem I have with allowing such powerful allies is that the only issue here is not balance between wizards and fighters. There is also fighter vs. fighter balance, fighter vs. monk balance, etc. What happens when the fighter who didn't spend all their feats and skills in handle animal (Brock, Aemon, Angosh) fights Spike? That equates to complete imbalance in my opinion. I agree that the arena should obtain balance where possible. I just don't think uncapped allies is the way to go.
Tyros Elessar 08-03-04, 12:46 PM	Hmmm.... Don't know if this is the right place to post this but, here goes nothing :embarrass How can I join the CoCo? I mean, where do I post my character list and how is it that I can enter a fight with the character? can anyone explain me how Level adjustment affects a character, please? (but I'd appreciate that you don't explain with the SRD's words cuz I've read those. I just don't get it :banghead: ) Tyros :D
Ethendril 08-03-04, 12:57 PM	Welcome, Tyros. To enter, just post a gladiator on the Gladiators & FAQ thread, which is stickied at the top. There is a standard character sheet in that thread. When your character is ready, just post "Ready for _____(date)" in the subject line, with the date being the next Wednesday, when pairings are posted. Level adjustment basically means that the character is x number of levels higher than he really is. So a character with one level of fighter and a +2 level adjustment is really a third level character, and will be paired against third level characters. To post a character with level adjustment, you have to earn "credits" by running fights. Hope this helps. -Ethendril
Ashenai 08-03-04, 01:07 PM	Hi! This is the right place. :) CLICK HERE (http://boards1.wizards.com/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=2700324) to submit your character. It's going to go in the "Gladiators and FAQ" thread. Before you do that, though, you should probably read the Rules. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2700278#post2700278) There's a lot to read, but we'll all be happy to help you if you don't understand something. Level Adjustment is actually pretty simple. The idea is that some races are more powerful than others. The more powerful races have Level Adjustments, which helps keep them balanced. The way it works is that Level Adjustments are "penalty levels"; they cost XP just like normal levels, but they don't give any benefits. For example, a drow has a Level Adjustment of +2. A Drow Fighter would need 6000 XP to get to level 2, 10000 XP to level 3, 15000 for level 4, and so on. A human or an elf with the same amount of XP would be level 4, 5, and 6, respectively: always 2 levels ahead of the drow. This is to balance out the fact that drow are more powerful than the "normal" races.
Tyros Elessar 08-03-04, 01:18 PM	So if I choose a Hogboglin (or how it's spelled) which has LA of +1, I will be a lvl 3 fighter and I will take more time to go up a level, is that it? Thanks for all the help, you guys. I am kinda new to DnD :( But I'll get better :D Tyros :D
Market_Share 08-03-04, 01:19 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril @Cat I believe this debate was alive and well long before the Roc, and almost everyone had agreed that this limitation should be the first step here. The problem I have with allowing such powerful allies is that the only issue here is not balance between wizards and fighters. There is also fighter vs. fighter balance. What happens when the fighter who didn't spend all their feats and skills in handle animal (Brock, Aemon, Angosh) fights Spike? That equates to complete imbalance in my opinion. I agree that the arena should obtain balance where possible. I just don't think uncapped allies is the way to go. So why don't we just make spellcasters the rulers of the land? Make two arena's...those that cast spells and those that don't. I'm shakin' my head here. What i truely don't understand is that this arena was born out of character optimization. With a heavy stress on optimization. It was our duties to create builds that could compete in a gladiatorial environment against both spellcasters and meleers alike. This is a shared environement. Anyone who doesn't think a druid and his companion or a charismatic sorc/wiz with a similar leadership-induced ally is weaker than "The Rock" needs a falchion to the head. Base stats, ok the roc is cool and impressive. Oops...anti-life shell. Man, you like my hood ornament? do ya? Cuz that's all it is from then on. I optimized Spike the way i felt i wanted him to be. To compete and to step up to the plate and take my best swing. When allies are flying high and mad, and spell casters using almost no resources to soundly destroy ground-pounders, i knew i had to come up with a neat and interesting build to compete. And thus Spike was born. The point is "I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG!" I'm coco legit, i'm core legit, and too legit to quit...ooooh yah. lol So don't nerf my build because ya'll jealous about "The Rock!" You'll see once i face my first single class caster or class-1/caster 12+ dude and you'll see. My roc won't unbalance anything. But against Brock, Aemon and Angosh? Seriously? I OWNZ JOO! even without the roc. And why should i be penalized because they opt to be heavier on the role-playing part of their build and not as seriously focused on killin' stuff? Why should i be penalized because you are pointing to me and saying, "See, see, not fair. You could kill them easily, not fair, not fair." when i say in reply, "Go back to training school and build a real killer instead of an rp'er." I like them, and i consider them the bread and butter of meleers of the CoCo and wish them great success. Kage is probably my all time favorite as he's the straight-class fighter. Ballsy man, very ballsy. My heart goes to Angosh for trying against Dr Dre and that's even a classier example of why he need a pet. Basically this place is to test and optimize builds right? Well, then let people do that. Don't put in house-rule caps that don't exist. Pre-mem of all spells exists and it's high and time that it's finally getting implemented. But don't implement the ally-cap...that is truely dumb and you are penalizing those that have come up with creative builds to compete at the higher levels against casters. And some of those casters have allies as well, so why shouldn't i? Anyhow, removing allies or capping them in a non-core fashion is lame. Just because people can't create more inovative builds to compete and focus so much on a build suitable for role-playing, the die-hard killers get punished. SPIKE!
Ethendril 08-03-04, 01:26 PM	Originally posted by Tyros Elessar So if I choose a Hogboglin (or how it's spelled) which has LA of +1, I will be a lvl 3 fighter and I will take more time to go up a level, is that it? Thanks for all the help, you guys. I am kinda new to DnD :( But I'll get better :D Tyros :D *pulls falchion out of head* Tyros: To make this simple, all characters start at level 2 here. So a hobgoblin with +1 LA and one level of fighter is great. He is considered level 2, and will fight at that level. The arena needs a good hobgoblin.
Ashenai 08-03-04, 01:29 PM	So if I choose a Hogboglin (or how it's spelled) which has LA of +1, I will be a lvl 3 fighter and I will take more time to go up a level, is that it? Nope. If you choose a Hobgoblin, you're going to be a level 1 Fighter. (If you were a human, you'd start at level 2, but the hobgoblin has a LEvel Adjustment... that is, a penalty level.) You're going to fight against level 2 characters (unless they also have Level Adjustments). You'd get levels at the same speed; here in the Core Coliseum, we don't use XP. Instead, every time you win a fight, you go up a level. Because of your Level Adjustment, though, you'd always be paired up against people who are a level higher than you (again, assuming they don't have Level Adjustments of their own). So for example, you would be a level 1 Fighter. Let's say your first fight is against a level 2 Human Cleric. If you win that fight, you gain a level: you become level 2. In your next fight, you might fight a level 3 Elf Wizard. Let's say you lose that one. In that case, you stay at level 2, and your next fight is going to be against another level 3 character... or maybe a level 1 Drow! If you win that one, then you go up to level 3. And so on. Thanks for all the help, you guys. I am kinda new to DnD But I'll get better Sure thing. :) Don't be discouraged if you lose more often than you win, at first. You'll soon figure out how things work.
Ethendril 08-03-04, 01:32 PM	Ashenai: How am I supposed to compete with you? First, you do this mad edit of character sheets, and then look at my two simple responses compared to your comprehensive masterpieces (which follow mine both times). You're making me look bad. Knock it off. ;) :D -Ethendril
Ashenai 08-03-04, 01:45 PM	I wasn't aware that it was a competition. ;) Your replies are perfectly fine, though; I wouldn't have submitted mine if I had seen them, but you submitted both while I was writing mine. My secret is that I'm supposed to be working right now... and the longer I take on writing a reply, the more time before I have to get back to this thrice-accursed translation job. Procastination power! :D
Tyros Elessar 08-03-04, 01:56 PM	hmmm... I see. So I would, effectively, be in a bad position to win against other players. how sad :( But there is one other race that I would find really fun to play and has no LA :devil: I'll post my character :) Thanks for the help, again. It was really useful. Tyros :D
Tyros Elessar 08-03-04, 02:02 PM	:blush: I can't buy a Worg, can I?
Druid Roxors 08-03-04, 02:27 PM	@ Tyros Elessar: About allies. There are some rules to follow: - You can buy any creature with a Price listed on the Monster Manual. - You can get any animal or magical beast with inteligence < 2. As long as you have a high score in Handle Animal. - You can get any creature with level adjustment to be your cohort at the cost of the Leadership feat. The only way for you to get a Worg is Leadership. It has 6 Int and no Price.
Druid Roxors 08-03-04, 02:48 PM	@ Caterane: As you know, I am perhaps the most fervent suporter of the idea behind "Fighters are Underpowered". Also, as you know, I am a supporter of the idea that "We cannot do anything about it". The issue with allies is an important one. It mindles with the way characters work but does not step in the way of Core-ness. I believe that overpowered allies could help a vastly underpowered class. If at all, to keep the CoCo a fun place. The problem I see with this is the fact that people like wizards and clerics (read: harvesters) take on this overpowered ability with their overpowered builds. Yes, harvies are fine now, but not when they got those allies. I believe that Tellish of Ket makes an excelent point on the "Concerns" thread. Allies should be limited, Definately, for those who are spellcasters and have access to allies anyways. This includes All wizards, Evil clerics, Good HA clerics and Druids. My proposal is: - You cannot have an ally of CR > ECL-4 If you are a Cleric/Druid/Wizard with a CL of at least 1/2 your ECL. - Allies are not limited to any other builds. I believe you will concurr with this Cat. You cannot mask the fact that you want to help Fighters in general and indirectly keep the harvesters imbalanced. (not that they are the only abusers, btw)
Druid Roxors 08-03-04, 03:08 PM	@ Caterane: all of a sudden, I have noticed a great income of new names on the board. Perhaps there should be a "CoCo Quickstart Guide" on sticky.
Ethendril 08-03-04, 03:23 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ Caterane: all of a sudden, I have noticed a great income of new names on the board. Perhaps there should be a "CoCo Quickstart Guide" on sticky. I think that's a great idea. I've noticed the same thing, mostly since the new advertising blitz. A quickstart guide would be very helpful, I think.
MotherBast 08-03-04, 04:05 PM	The problem with not nurffing allies is that the Classes with easiest access to them are CASTERS. It is Clerics and Wizys that get the powerful undead. Fighters don't even have access to the undead. Leaving them unlimited only means the casters can use them to become even more powerful than the already outclassed fighter. Second, Clerics and Druids also have access to HA, and the ability to make their animals better than a fighters. So, if we leave allies as they are, we are really making things more unbalanced for pure melees than we are helping. One or two pure melee builds might have access to a big bad animal, but it isen't going to aid them aginst casters, who can shut the animal down with one spell. Its only going to alow them to kill other melee builds that don't have access to HA much easier. Allies are not the way to go to balance Melee/magic. They actually create a greater inbalance in that reguard. And MS, no one is picking on Spike. The "NEW" rules for allies were actually decided on almost 2 months ago, but for some reason, we never put them into effect. Running that Roc fight just reminded me of them, thats all. They were supposed to have been voted on and put into effect long before Spike ever thought about that Roc. Trust me when I say, your Roc is not the reason for the decision.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-03-04, 04:17 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors My proposal is: - You cannot have an ally of CR > ECL-4 If you are a Cleric/Druid/Wizard with a CL of at least 1/2 your ECL. - Allies are not limited to any other builds. I believe you will concurr with this Cat. You cannot mask the fact that you want to help Fighters in general and indirectly keep the harvesters imbalanced. (not that they are the only abusers, btw) That is an excellent suggestion. I think i could easily second that unless someone showed me strong cause to do otherwise. -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-03-04, 04:28 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast One or two pure melee builds might have access to a big bad animal, but it isen't going to aid them aginst casters, who can shut the animal down with one spell. Its only going to alow them to kill other melee builds that don't have access to HA much easier. Allies are not the way to go to balance Melee/magic. They actually create a greater inbalance in that reguard. All HA allies have Good Reflex and Good Fortitute. The only problem will be Will. Check this out: Druids have no Will Save-or-Die spells Wizards' and clerics' Will Save-or-Die spells require Will And Fort or require a new roll Each round. Besides, they will be wasting a Pre-Memorized slot on something that might not even come to pass (fight someone else).
MotherBast 08-03-04, 04:35 PM	Even with Good Rex and Fort, animals have bad saves. Besides, Dominate Animal does not allow additional saves, nor does hide from animal, or Anti-life shell, etc. ect. etc. HA allies are not the way to balance melee vs. Magic. It only unbalances Melee vs. melee.
Druid Roxors 08-03-04, 04:43 PM	Which is why you use Magical Beasts.
Jindl 08-03-04, 04:49 PM	From what I've seen, the HA allies are not the biggest problem. There are few classes that get HA as a class skill: Barbs, Fighters, Paladins, Rangers, and Druids. Of those, Druids and Paladins will almost always use their class feature companions. So, the Fighters, Rangers, and Barbarians who stand to gain the most from HA allies. All other classes will be putting cross-class skill points into this ability (and unless they multiclass will have a much lower max ranks in that skill). I do agree with MB that it unbalances these melee types against other melee'rs that don't have an ally. But I think the main problem are the animated dead allies, which belong to clerics and wizards (the casters which everyone seems so afraid of). -Jindl
Caterane 08-03-04, 05:38 PM	Ok, what about that: The new CR-4 cap only counts for UNDEAD and NOT for handled animals. Easy and elegant. - non-spellcasters don't get undeads but handled animals - it prevents Giant skeletons and Cauchemars at level 8. Here my answers to your posts: Druid Roxors: I believe you will concurr with this Cat. You cannot mask the fact that you want to help Fighters in general and indirectly keep the harvesters imbalanced. You're still not convinced that the CoCo is my main concern? After I fought to nerve the spellcasters when I play 5 myself? And since I'm the only one who uses undeads the rule above proposed by me shows again where my focus lies. Actually, I am one of the few that doesn't think about his character when proposing new rules. Ethendril: There is also fighter vs. fighter balance, fighter vs. monk balance, etc. What happens when the fighter who didn't spend all their feats and skills in handle animal (Brock, Aemon, Angosh) fights Spike? Marketshare said it already: Spike would cleave their head without THE ROCK. And to give them access to their own ally without spending "feats and skills in handle animal" I can only repeat my mercenaries idea which lets them buy a balanced ally for money but it will be an ally at least. Ethendril: I agree that the arena should obtain balance where possible. I just don't think uncapped allies is the way to go. And I don't think uncapped allies are the way to begin with. The spellcaster vs fighter problem is much more urgent. Druid Roxors: @ Caterane: all of a sudden, I have noticed a great income of new names on the board. Perhaps there should be a "CoCo Quickstart Guide" on sticky. I always welcome newbies with a PM with all the links and stuff. Just came home but I'll guide our two newest members. Anything else can be read in the FAQ or by asking me further. No need for an additional sticky.
Druid Roxors 08-03-04, 06:08 PM	No, what I ment is the people on the (Users Browsing this Forum: Tyros Elessar, Ethendril, MotherBast, Caterane, Beldin, Ashenai, Druid Roxors)Tag. People click the link on our sigs and arrive. What do they do next? Some post on the taven, others stumble arround on reading huge pointless posts. A Quickstart Guide would aid these newbies who do not post on the Tavern for you to PM. Originally posted by Caterane You're still not convinced that the CoCo is my main concern? After I fought to nerve the spellcasters when I play 5 myself? And since I'm the only one who uses undeads the rule above proposed by me shows again where my focus lies. Actually, I am one of the few that doesn't think about his character when proposing new rules. Just checking where your loyalties lie ;)
Druid Roxors 08-03-04, 06:13 PM	I belive my proposal is superior to your simplified version because of this: - Loremaster HA Abuse - Cleric HA Abuse - Druid HA Abuse (Yes) - Bard HA Abuse (Well, perhaps we can make an exception :P)
MotherBast 08-03-04, 06:24 PM	Well, the proposition already was for only undead to be CR -4. HA allies were suposed to be max HD = Level + 2, so Spike, at level 12, would be limited to a 14 HD allie. thats not too limiting a proposal. It helps keep those melees with HA skills from WAY outclassing those without it. But, still alows for powerful allies, espically since Magical Beasts typicaly have higher CRs for less HD than normal animals. So, a 14 HD magical Beast for a 12th level gladiator is still a substanchal boost. Limiting the undead that casters can control is a good step to nurffing their domanace a little. But it wont fix it entirely, not even close. Part of the problem is that in the Core game, Casters at high levels simply ARE more powerful. Another part of the problem is that casters in the CoCo can expend all of their spells on a single encounter, giving them practicly unlimited tactical options. The first problem can't be fixed. Acording to WotC, it isen't even a problem, since they designed the game with that intent in mind. I don't think they thought about Melee vs. Mage gladitorial matches when creating the core classes. So, with that issue beyond our control, we should focus on the second. The main advantage a caster has in the CoCo over one in a real campagin is the ability to use all his spells on a single encounter. How do you fix this problem? Well, some might suggest only allowing them a certain number of spells at each level for every fight. Another suggestion would be to make them have to fight x number of fights before re-meming spells. Then, do we make the fighters wait the same number of fights before re-buying arrows? Before recovering HP? The problem is, all classes have resources, and if we declare that one resorce can't be replenished between fights, then it wouldn't make any sense at all to alow other resorces to be replinshed. I mean, the caster wins a fight, and has time to go buy 3 new magic items, scribe 7 scrolls, and add 9 spells to his book, but never bothers to remem his spells? The only allowing x spells from each level is a more practical and realistic solution, but, I don't really see it making the casters any weaker vs. Melee, when they only need one or two spells to win. For instance, if we were to instatute a rule stating that each caster could only cast 2 spells per level in any given fight, that is a HUGE limitation on any caster. But, using the most recent fight for an example, Dr. Dre could have killed Ag using 2 spells if he had wanted. 2 of the 14 that new rule would have allowed. It would be a step, but not balance. It would make fights with other casters much more intresting. I would hate this rule for Bards though, who are already shortchanged on the number of spells they get do to only haveing 6 spell levels. It would suck for Rangers and Pallys too, with only 4 spell levels. But then, they get so few spells they might not even notice. Eliminating pre-buffs would be another step towords putting melee back twords even with casters. Pre-buffs allow casters to start the fight basicly with actions already preformed. The problem with this is that it in no way resembles the way an encouter between melee and mage would be in a real game. In a real game, you would never encounter the caster without a buff already in place if that buff could last 16 hours. No, none of this would balance melees to casters, because no matter what we do, we are still tied to the D&D core system. In that system, Casters are superior to melees at high levels. Anyone who has ever played a D&D game past level 12 knows this. Without deviating from the Core rules, I really don't see how we can balance them aginst one another, since they are not balanced in the core system. But, I've made a few suggestions, with both pros and cons listed. I'll give yall some time to mull them over. None of them are new, but maybe people are in the right frame of mind to think about them now.
Tyros Elessar 08-03-04, 06:30 PM	Ok, I don't to seem like a pain in the neck or anything but I would really like to make a paladin that rides a winged mount. The only mount that I can with an intellegence score of 2 is an Hippogrif. Is this build possible for a 2nd lvl character using the handle animal skill in the CoCo? What must I do?
Druid Roxors 08-03-04, 06:35 PM	This has already been discussed in its own thread. It was left on page 2 tho. I'll bring it back for you. The issue about having all spells for one fight was already discussed. In a real life campaign, characters will keep their best spells (or all) for when they face the BBG. Having an encounter with a CR equal to yours is very dangerous and challenging (50% win). It shouldnt be taken as lightly as you would 3 fights/Day.
MotherBast 08-03-04, 06:42 PM	Hears what you would need to do. You would need a HA skill high enough to traid the Hippo by taking 10 on all your rolls. Thats a DC of 20 + HD for the hippo, being its a Magical beast. With a HD of 3, you need at least a 13 in Handel Animal to get your hippo. At level 2, with a pally, you could put 5 ranks in HA, have +4 cha, take the Animal Affinity feat and get +2, buy HA tools and get +2 for a total of +13, allowing you to train the beast. (that would require an 18 in CHA though...) Once you have the +13 HA skill, then you need to defeat the Hippo in a monster fight to gain it as an allie. (note that if the new rules go into effect, you will not need a monster fight). For a second level Pally, the cost might be too great to attempt this. It would require 16 points to get that 18 in CHA, which would weaken your build, overall. It is also not certain that a second level Pally would defeat the Hippo in combat, though with some clever tactics I imagin you could. The Animal Affinity feat is aslo costly just to get this allie for 3 levels, and then replace it with your special mount at level 5. I would suggest going warhorse, and then once your able to get a special mount, use the Alternate mounts in the DMG, where I belive a Hippo is listed as one of the possible mounts.
Ethendril 08-03-04, 07:20 PM	One more possibility on the hippogriff is to wait until you have the funds to purchase it. It costs 3000 gp for a young hippogriff, and 1000 gp to have someone else train it. So for 4000 gp you could buy it without any skills in handle animal. That would take a few levels, though.
Ethendril 08-03-04, 08:39 PM	Eliminating pre-buffs would be another step towords putting melee back twords even with casters. Pre-buffs allow casters to start the fight basicly with actions already preformed. The problem with this is that it in no way resembles the way an encouter between melee and mage would be in a real game. In a real game, you would never encounter the caster without a buff already in place if that buff could last 16 hours. While I still support a cap on allies (because I think the star of the show should always be the gladiator, not the ally), I think this is a good idea. I've always wondered why we allow casters to have pre-buffs. The whole idea of it, one side preparing for the battle while the other doesn't, does not make sense to me. The rogue doesn't go into the arena beforehand, lay traps, caltrops, and hide. The fighter does not get a readied action or get to start 10' from his opponent. Why should the casters get to prepare before the fight? This is something we should discuss more, because this is already a house rule, and eliminating it still keeps us core.
freemoody 08-03-04, 09:02 PM	Just a note about using the Handle Animal skill on a Magical Beast like the Hippogriff. quoted from the SRD Special: You can use this skill on a creature with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 that is not an animal, but the DC of any such check increases by 5. Such creatures have the same limit on tricks known as animals do.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-03-04, 10:18 PM	Man, people are really talking sense now. Dang it feels good. :) While i still support my original idea modified by Druid :thumbsup: , i also whole-heartedly support Eth's as well. Down with pre-buff's. :thumbsdow That alone would be a great asset to balancing things out while still staying core and not house-ruling anything. -ToK
Ashenai 08-03-04, 10:34 PM	I do not agree with eliminating pre-buffs. I've always wondered why we allow casters to have pre-buffs. The whole idea of it, one side preparing for the battle while the other doesn't, does not make sense to me. Pre-buffs need a 16-hour duration. 16 hours! That's not preparing for the fight, that's simply preparing for the day. I am of the opinion that if we nix pre-buffs, we become a little less core. When was the last time you saw a level 8 Wizard blunder into an encounter without a Mage Armor on? Unless he was woken up from his sleep, never. Not because he knew what was coming, and when, and where... but simply because it made sense to cast it at the beginning of the adventuring day. Same with Psionic Focus. Why would a Psion everwalk around without his Focus? It takes--at most--two minutes to set up, and it lasts until he needs it. Pre-buffs aren't like letting a rogue lay traps. They're more like allowing a fighter to start the battle with his armor on and his weapon in hand. I understand the need to nerf casters. I have a bunch of ideas for doing this, ideas that--I feel--would actually make us more core, not less. I just feel eliminating pre-buffs entirely would be an unwise and un-Core decision.
Ethendril 08-03-04, 10:49 PM	Well, there are two things we simulate here. 1. A core campaign. Wizards have probably cast mage armor for the day. We don't worry about balance, just making sure the whole party survives. 2. A gladiatorial battle. The Coliseum sponsors battles between two gladiators. The matches should be fair, so no one buffs up before battle starts. While I think core should be our mantra, I also believe we should have some balance where it does not interfere with being core. The 16 hour duration actually only helps the casters once they start to get very powerful. A wizard or cleric has to be 8th level before the metamagic rod can extend 1/hr per level spells to 16 hours, so casters start benefiting from this rule only when everyone agrees they are becoming more powerful than the melee characters. Also, to clarify, I don't think all pre-buffs should be eliminated. Magic items, such as animated shields or rings of counterspell, should still be allowed. Psions should start focused. The only thing I think we should eliminate are the house-rule 16 hour buffs. Take a look at the Professor's prebuffs. I think he uses them more effectively than anyone. [Ext]Mage armor (26 hours) [includes Neframion] [Ext]False life (26 hours) [includes Neframion] [Ext]Phantom steed (26 hours) Ring of counterspells (Dispel magic) Ring of counterspells (Greater dispel magic) Contingency (Empowered Mirror image) [Trigger: starting signal] Programmed image (of myself and allies) [Trigger: starting signal]] Of his prebuffs, he would still keep the rings of counterspells and the contingency spell and effects. The only buffs I think he should lose are the ones that rely on our 16 hour house rule. While I know exactly what you are trying to say, Ashenai, in campaigns I have played in, casters are not always prepared for every battle. There are always surprises. You said you had some ideas...I'd love to hear them.
MotherBast 08-03-04, 11:10 PM	Free: I took the +5 DC into account when I did the math for the Hippo. It is typicly 15 + HD for the skill, but as I stated above, for the Hippo its going to be 20 + HD for a 23 DC total.
Ashenai 08-04-04, 12:04 AM	Take a look at the Professor's prebuffs. I think he uses them more effectively than anyone. Well, in a real campaign, that's pretty much what a clever Wizard 13 would look like. IMHO, we should focus more on simulating a campaign than an arena bout, simply because it's more relevant. No one (well, except for us :)) cares about whether a fighter could beat a mage in some weird, artificial arena. People care whether a fighter could generally beat a mage, under normal Core campaign circumstances. We provide a very useful service to people trying to discuss D&D balance, and I think that should be our focus. You said you had some ideas...I'd love to hear them. Sure thing. 0) This is not really an idea, just a preliminary observation. As the CoCo (hopefully) grows larger, with more gladiators, prepared casters will automatically grow slightly weaker. Why? Because they will no longer have to prepare for fighting any one of, say, three opponents; they'll have to prepare for fighting one of five, or ten. Information deprivation hurts prepared casters the most. Case in point: look at the level 5 roster. There are exactly 2 gladiators there; a prepared caster (my very own dearly beloved Ildechai) and a Psion. If I win this fight (and I believe that I will), it will be largely because I knew exactly who I was going to be paired against. Every single one of my spells is prepared specifically to destroy Cyric Tor. Now, for my ideas. 1) More cover. I realize that changing the arena is... iffy, but I'm not suggesting anything dramatic like moats and bridges and whatnot. Just more and thicker columns, and perhaps more "forts" like the central complex. Lowering the roof might also help, but probably not, unless we bring it down to 20' or something. (Which might possibly be worth considering, in fact.) Result: ranged attackers (archers and spellslingers) would suffer, sneaky characters and melee types would prosper. This would have the unfortunate effect of making archers even less viable, but nothing's perfect. "Realism": The current arena is much more open than most typical campaign environments. This clearly benefits builds with greater mobility and distance attacks... in other words, mostly wizards. 2) Randomized starting positions! This would work best in conjunction with my first idea. I hate the fact that the Professor can win initiative, ride to where he has a perfect vantage point of (-20,0), and cast a devastating spell before his opponent can do anything. Why do the gladiators know exactly where their opponent is? Naturally, the starting positions would have to be randomized in such a way as to make it impossible for the two gladiators to see each other right away. This is fairly simple to implement, though. There are two ways of implementing this. a) The gladiators are not told in advance where they will start. This makes it more difficult to make insanely precise and detailed tactics based on exact positions (like the ones I usually write), which can be both good and bad. b) The gladiators know exactly where they will start, but not where their opponents will start. The main problem with this is that it is difficult to put into practice. 3) We should somehow simulate the fact that this fight is not the first and only fight of the day. The DMG suggests three encounters per day. Lowering this to a single encounter per day is clearly going to benefit characters built on expendable resources... prepared casters, in other words. Here's a fairly simple proposal. Have characters fight every 10 hours! This would, of course, raise some specific rules questions as to what exactly you can do in that time, and here are my answers (to the ones I anticipated, anyway). * Obviously, you can buy and sell anything you want. You can also use any magic items to heal wounds, etc. You can cast only recovery spells; Cure, Remove Blindness, etc. All healing dice roll average, rounding down, so a Potion of CLW would restore 4+1=5 hps. No spell buffing outside of combat. Other buffs (Rings of Counterspell, Psionic Focus, etc) are OK. * You can get the equivalent of a good night's sleep. Natural healing occurs: 1 hp per character level is restored. * Dead characters are True Resurrected for free (max hp, no spells lost because of death). Obviously, this is a necessary departure from the "gritty reality" of a real campaign. * You can prepare spells. The catch is this sentence (from the SRD): "when she prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells she has cast within the last 10 hours count against her daily limit." (The original SRD quote had 8 hours.) This means that the slots for any spells you cast in your previous fight are not available in your very next fight! I feel this does very well at simulating the idea that prepared casters have to conserve their spells somewhat, or risk being caught unprepared for the next battle. * Psionic characters regain up to 1/2 (or possibly 1/3) of their max. power points (rounded up). They then get power points as normal for levelling up. *Non-prepared spellcasters (Sorcerers, Bards) regain up to 1/2 of their maximum available spell slots from each level (rounded up). If they would regain more high-level slots than they would need, they can have them "trickle down" into lower-level slots. For instance, a high-level Sorcerer who used up all his level 1 spells but no higher-level spells would regain all his level 1 slots. *On the plus side, spell durations carry over. If you cast a Mage Armor in one battle that lasts for 24 hours, you're going to have it in your next battle, and the one after that (unless it's dispelled). This would replace the current pre-buff system. * I think it's best if the previous rule applies to harmful spells like Blindness or Feeblemind as well, but I'm not sure. On the plus side, it simulates a real campaign, where the player has to go pay for getting de-cursed. On the other hand, I'm not sure this is really desirable. * You can craft items, ignoring crafting times. * All other "time limits" like the year and a day for familiars, etc, are ignored. I think this system is a little bit cludgy, but it would do wonders for both Core realism and balance. It would help Sorcerers a great deal, and weaken prepared spellcasters. It would do away with our weird and illogical pre-buff system. It would reward careful planning and making every spell count.
kattattack22 08-04-04, 12:04 AM	I don't really think eliminating pre-buffs is really going to help with the melee vs. caster balance. A good Cleric can always meld with stone, a wizard teleport outside the arena, or anyone can jump into a portable hole to buff undisturbed. I've noticed with Arkin now that he can pre-buff a couple spells it actually speeds up the fight since he doesn't need to buff as much. I do think we need to decide what can be pre-buffed though. I think spells with duration of 16 hours are fine. Some of the other things I think need to be reviewed in case by case basis and see if should be allowed. I know Mag and I had some issues in a couple fights where he forgot to list his psionic pre-buffs that last as long as not used. As for caster vs. melee balance. I wish I knew of way to balance this. Back in my stubborn early days here I tried so hard to make Ony work. Yet, he would die time and time again once the casters got a decent amount of spells. Its just hard for stand alone meleer to take on a caster that can get an AC in the mid twenties with just a couple spells and stay out of reach. The problem is just a caster with a couple craft feats can out buy a melee gladiator any day of the week. I remember it took Ony forever to get a +2 cloak of resistance. One shot items for a melee build are hurtful later on since they have to buy potions that cost twice as much as non-scribed scrolls. Melee gladiators are just expensive to build and don't get much to reduce the cost as casters do. Then there is the problem of reaching another gladiator. Ony took the Run feat as many other ground pounders, but the new arena makes it much more difficult for that to be effective. limiting caster allies will help a bit for the lone melee build, but the game is designed for casters with great defensive and offensive capabilities in the late levels. Ony owned casters at levels 2 - 5, but once they acculumated enough spells and money to craft whatever scrolls they needed, his only chance was to get close which wouldn't happen. I think they only way you are going to have fights on equal standing is to have separate martial and spellcaster arenas, but what fun is that? There are builds that can win against spellcasters (maybe not consistantly) I live in fear that Arkin will become grappled and not able to escape. Anyway, those are my random thoughts. Not much help, other than balancing casters and meleers isn't going to solve anything. Its just admitting meleers are weaker and need a crutch to win. (Besides playing a meleer gets a little boring. Tactics are always the same, get close and unleash hell.) EDIT: Forgot to mention I'll be on vacation in my birth state of Pennslyvania. This means I will be MIA for about a week and half. I know people are leaping at the chance to challenge Arkin, but I won't be here to accept any of them.
Jindl 08-04-04, 01:10 AM	Forgive me if this post is a little long, but please try to read the whole thing: It's been quite some time since the Core Arena first appeared. Snarkhunter, Moherajikuyx, and 2 weeks later, Magagumo and I were all part of that starting group (that's right, it was even before Caterane or Tellish joined us, though we did have a couple of other players which I may be unintentionally leaving out). We were hosted on the Character Optimization boards back then, and we had 3 threads: the discussion thread, the fights thread, and the gladiators thread. Now I remind everyone of this because that is where this community was born. I want to remind you of why. Its significant that we were born on the CO board. That's where people optimize DnD. Builds, tactics, even whole adventuring parties are optimized there. Why is that relevant, you may wonder. Well, the Core Arena was created to test those builds and tactics. You see the 3.5 rules had just been released. Core build activity was very high on the CO boards. The Ready 2 Rumble arena had just failed due to its non-Core-ness (is that a word?). So Moherajikuyx had an idea to create an arena where Core only builds could be tested against each other, using just the 3.5 rules. The goal was to optimize your characters. You see, the problem with most optimized characters is that old saying "no sane DM would allow this." But Mo's idea was to use only the Core 3.5 rules, which almost all DM's universally allow. So the Core Arena was going to let us test/improve builds that we could use in a real campaign. That was the reason it was created. That was its purpose. To support this purpose, we needed some guidelines. We didn't have Elder's back then (heck, the Elder's were just as new as everybody else was). And we only had like 8 players. So everybody decided together. And what we decided was that in order to have a good way to test builds, we needed to try to approximate a real campaign. So rules for crafting were put in place. Rules for prebuffs (originally at 24 hours) were put in place. The prebuff rules were even modified later to reflect that a PC is awake 16 hours a day and thus would have their prebuffs running as long as they are awake. A setting for the fights was created, intentionally open with lots of cover, to provide an environment that would be as nuetral as possible to all build types, because how can you optimize characters when the arena favors one type. It was also decided that characters needed to advance relatively quickly in order to test a build through all stages of development. Thus the rewards for winning a fight were set at "raise a level in experience and wealth". We didn't have bumping rules back then (a fact which Hurtz of the Nine Cranes still regrets). I could go on and on, but the point was to create a nuetral environment that approximated a campaign in which to test/improve/optimize Core builds that could be used in a real game. We didn't care about balance. Quite the contrary, we were looking for imbalance. By definition, in seeking to come up with the most powerful builds, we were searching the Core rules for the most imbalanced character concepts. It may surprise you, but in the early days those concepts were the melee'ers. Alathar Vierce, Bonanza the Panza, and Skymoon Moonbow ruled the arena. Spellcasters, be them druid or wizard, fell to their melee ability. Heck, Alathar was never beaten, until his retirement at 7th level. The only person to ever beat Bonanza was Alathar. And Skymoon was also unbeaten until he faced Alathar. But that was fine, because we expected melee builds to be tougher below 7th level. It was how the Core rules were written, and we learned much about optimizing builds/tactics for low level games. Builds continued to arrive, and with melee'ers ruling all, many players wanted the challenge of playing the spellcaster. Bruno, Bilo, the Elder, Jindl, the Harvester, a little fish named Slefwee, all casters who appeared about the same time. And they struggled at low levels (except the Harvester, who had enough melee'er in him to do pretty well in the low levels). But that too was expected, and those characters played on, waiting to advance to where they would come into their own. Some didn't make it. Slefwee died young. The Elder was retired due to some mistakes in his middle levels. But the others of that first Caster generation you can find fighting now. You can also find their descendants, characters like Dra'kel and Corinthius, the Harvester #2, the Pale-Rider, Heinrich, etc. These descendants took what the first generation did and tried to improve upon it, many with obvious success. Again, not seeking balance, but rather seeking to optimize the build or the tactics, which is of course the whole reason for the arena. I could continue telling the story, bringing you through the evolution of the Core Arena into the CoCo and beyond. I could discuss the formation of the Elders, whose purpose was to interpret any vagueness in the Core rules. I could tell you about when the idea of issueing a challenge was first introduced. Or when the first ECL>2 gladiators were allowed. Or when allies that weren't bought or class features were first allowed. But throughout it all, the purpose remained the same. To optimize Core builds/tactics that could be used in a real game. Now we have a big debate going on. The root of it is a growing feeling that certain classes are at a disadvantage. The issue is Balance vs Optimizing the Core rules. Looking back on our history, I can hardly believe that we are even discussing ways of making the classes balanced. I mean, the whole reason to create the arena was to discover which builds were the most unbalanced. How can you optimize something when you actively are trying to balance the classes? I look at the CoCo today, and I am greatly concerned. We seem to be divided in our purpose. Are we just trying to play a game where all classes are supposed to be equal? Or are we still with our original purpose, trying to optimize builds and tactics that we can take from here and use in our real games. I'm also disappointed in the CoCo now, when I look at gladiators who rely on their handled animals or animated dead to win the fight, instead of their build itself. I'm disappointed when I hear that the majority thinks that fully optimized characters should be balanced with the less optimized ones because some people think it would be more fair. But I hold steady that the reason I spend so much time here is to optimize my characters and tactics. I care nothing about trying to balance the classes. I care about which ones are the most powerful, and how I can make the most powerful example of each type of PC. Whether its the most powerful druid, wizard, rogue, or fighter. That's my purpose here. It's the same one I've had since I started. Hopefully, after reading this you'll ask yourself what you think the purpose of the CoCo should be. Because I think ultimately that will be what guides us in the future. -Jindl
Ashenai 08-04-04, 01:47 AM	I completely agree that the CoCo's primary focus should be being Core. However, I do not think that balance and Coreness are mutually exclusive. In fact, I think that many of the imbalances are caused by the CoCo not being Core enough. In fact, all three of my suggestions would, in my opinion, serve to make the CoCo resemble a real Core campaign more, and incidentally introduce some balance. Why do we let spellcasters get a full day of rest after (and more importantly, before) each battle? That's not in the spirit of the Core rules. It's not what happens in a real campaign, and it's not what the DMG suggests. Why do gladiators know exactly where their opponent is at the beginning of a bout? That's not what happens in a real campaign. And it leads to weird, degenerate tactics. On the other hand, having pre-buffs is in the spirit of the Core rules. Which is why I am strongly against removing them. As for full pre-memorization, that can be argued both ways, but I believe full pre-mem is more in the spirit of the Core rules than half pre-mem. It's also more balanced, so... great! I personally think it more important to remain Core than to be balanced. All the same, I can understand those who disagree. But I think we can have it both ways.
cellardweller 08-04-04, 01:51 AM	Where many of these solutions fail is that there assertion that Spellcasters are overpowered is false. Fighter type characters can and do hang with them all the way to L7/8. The problem needs to be stated as "Mid-to-high level spellcasters are overpowered". Solutions such as limiting spellslots nerfs low level spellcasters along with the high level ones. A much neater solution is not to muck around with the rules, but instead to tweek the rewards systems. Fighter types have to use more expensive oneshot items, and have a stronger reliance on purchased items so lets reward them more for winning. Take the average of all your classes in the table below and multiply the total gold you should have by this factor. 0.75 clr/wiz/Drd/ArcT/ArcM/LorM 0.85 Sor/Wld/MThu/Cereb/EK/Slayer/MMind/PUnc/ThrH/Heir 1.00 Bard/PsB/PsW/Pld/AA/Ass/BlkG/PsiF/WMind/+HD/+LA 1.10 Brb/Ftr/Rgr/Rog/DrgD/Duel/DwD/HorW/ShdD/PKin For example take the following L13 characters. The base gold for them is 110000 A Rog5/Ftr8 could have equipment worth 121000 A Wiz13 could have 82500 A Ftr1/Sor6/EK6 could have 95615 The actual weightings can be tweaked giving us finer control over balance.
Ashenai 08-04-04, 01:57 AM	The reward system is also a part of the Core Rules; it's in the DMG. It is very clear that WotC normally intended all classes to have equal wealth. For this reason, I'd be against giving more or less money to characters based on their class. Solutions such as limiting spellslots nerfs low level spellcasters along with the high level ones. I believe that is exactly how it is supposed to work. The WotC design people have stated many times that they intended casters to be weak at the lower levels, and strong at the higher levels. This is how the power curve is supposed to look in a normal D&D Core campaign: | | | | | | | WWWWWW | WWWWWW | WWWWW | WWWW FFFFFFFF | WWW FFFFFFFF | WWWFFFFFFFF | FFF**FFF | FFFFFWWW | FFF WW |FF WWW | WW |WWW ======================================== .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 14 16 18 20 And this is what it actually currently looks like, in the CoCo: | | | | | WWWWWW | WWWWWW | WWWWW | WWWW | WWW | WWW FFFFFFFF | WW FFFFFFFF | WWW FFFFFFFF | WWFFFFFFFF | W**FFFF | F** |**W | | ======================================== .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 14 16 18 20 F: Fighter's power at a given level W: Wizard's power at a given level And this, I believe, is what could and should be rectified by weakening casters of all levels, by simulating the fact that in a real campaign, they'd have to go through several fights a day. (What do you mean I have way too much time on my hands???)
cellardweller 08-04-04, 02:34 AM	Originally posted by Ashenai I believe that is exactly how it is supposed to work. The WotC design people have stated many times that they intended casters to be weak at the lower levels, and strong at the higher levels. This is how the power curve is supposed to look. In order to achieve "balance" you need to change the curve to be weak at low levels and average at high. By nerfing all casters you are changing the curve to be average at high levels and Level 0 commoners at low levels. Every change so far involves changing core rules. In my experience, gold is always the factor that deviates most from gaming table to gaming table and is why I think it should be the medium for balance.
Ashenai 08-04-04, 02:42 AM	In order to achieve "balance" you need to change the curve to be weak at low levels and average at high. By nerfing all casters you are changing the curve to be average at high levels and Level 0 commoners at low levels. Are you saying casters are weak at low levels right now? Then explain how Ildechai is 3-0 and Evram is 5-0. I don't know about Evram, but as far as Ildechai goes, it's not my brilliant tactics, I'll tell you that right now. It's a little bit of luck, yes, but mostly it's the fact that even a level 2-3 wizard can have access to several spells that are basically save or die. And for the record, all three of Ildechai's victories were against fighter types.
cellardweller 08-04-04, 04:24 AM	Originally posted by Ashenai Are you saying casters are weak at low levels right now? Then explain how Ildechai is 3-0 and Evram is 5-0. I don't know about Evram, but as far as Ildechai goes, it's not my brilliant tactics, I'll tell you that right now. It's a little bit of luck, yes, but mostly it's the fact that even a level 2-3 wizard can have access to several spells that are basically save or die. And for the record, all three of Ildechai's victories were against fighter types. For the same reason that many other characters went 3-0. Luck has a huge part to play in the first few matches, both in terms of rolls and who's gladiator you get paired against. Heck, I had a very poorly built orc that went 4-0. Go through fights thread and see just how many grey elf wizards there are disappear after loosing their first couple of fights. Low level save or die spells don't cut it because 1) you don't get enough of them and 2) Concentration skill is not high enough to get them off.
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 04:45 AM	I believe that Jindl has hit the nail on the head. The true purpose of the CoCo was to optimize builds and I believed I had mentioned it several times in the past. I have also said, perhaps too many times, that fighters are underpowered and that it is AS DESIGNED. I have described how Even when "Nerfing-Houseruling" casters they would still win against fighters. This is intended by the rules of the book. Now, on to the current state of the CoCo, Jindl, it has certainly become a different place than the one I found on the Optimization Boards. New players and Ideals are springing up, wanting to change the face of the CoCo forever. I believe that the days of its true purpose have come to an end and instead this has become a game, Entertainment for the masses. It is no longer an experiment, it is a hobby, something fun which people wish to keep that way. Perhaps it is time to take a step in another direction. Switch the focus of the CoCo from its ancient roots. Know that if your caster is competitive at higher levels with the upcoming "House-Rules" it will "Rule Completely" on the old Arena. The true purpose of this place would have been met and you would still know the best builds and strategies for they will be used by Casters. Although just my opinion, this is not the same Core Arena it was before, and I like it as it is, was and will be.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-04, 08:43 AM	I hate repeating myself, and i do agree with Jindl. When something becomes unbalanced or too powerfull, too quick are people to react that it needs to be fixed and nerfed instead of finding a better build or combonation. I think a vast majority of the meleers loss is tactics. And yes, Hurtz did have some unfortunate luck in the beginning, but we were all learning. There are some really good meleers out there that's for sure and they use their tactics to the fullest. It's not that meleers are so weak, it's that they require more brains to play. Rhoar, Aemon, Angosh, Kage, all need to develop really good "kill-fast" tactics and to be able to put immense pressure upon spellcasters early or suffer defeats. Since this is about optimization what i would then say to those that think meleers are weak is to come up with a "better meleer" instead of screaming out against casters. The only thing i will disagree with Jindl is the HA/Animate issue. It's core, and someone used those ideas to "optimize" their particular build to compete and even outright crush their opponent. Not to keep pointing at Market_Share and Spike, but i'm starting to like that build more and more. He was a killer meleer, and as the build progressed and casters were more prominent he took Animal Affinity and Skill Focus:Handle Animal to compete and "optimize" his melee potential. It's not like he took those skills at level one and totally owned and dominated, he already did that with tripping, and riding hard-fast towards his opponent. Also i think the arena should go back to normal. As it stands meleers have been weakened because of it in my opinion at least. Casters have more free time to buff and prepare for the meleer and is usually very well prepared. Either that or go with a "moat-house/Keep" style of arena. Repeating myself again here, if you think pure meleers are weak then find a way to optimize them. Spike took a few cleric levels to help counter some of that, but the core of the build is melee. Brock did the same, but Brock is no way half as good as Spike. Heck i'm not even close to Rhoar or Angosh, or Aemon. I made him strong against casters, but weak against meleers. I truely think we should start optimizing melee builds instead of weakening the others. Maybe eliminating pre-buffs isn't the way to go, but i would disagree with those that say it isn't core, it is. I think returning the arena will assist melee builds. It always has. In fact the talk of a large central pillar was initially discussed because meleers on light warhorses with horseshoes of speed and a reach weapon would win init, ride up and destroy casters. The cry then went out against nerfing initiative. Yet still at the higher levels we are seeing the central obstacle only hurting meleers and having no effect on casters. Anyhow, before making changes to the core (and the ally cap ISN'T core and would seriously suggest not implimenting it) first try new tactics and newer melee builds, combined with a caster class for just a level or two while remainging focused on melee. Don't cry something is broken if you haven't tried to figure a way to beat it. And just because you can't beat it, doesn't mean it isn't broken, it just means a new way or new tactic hasn't been devised yet. -ToK
Dawnlord 08-04-04, 09:06 AM	It's also core to raise not one but a hundred of Rocs or to have a whole army of undeads. I think everyone agrees that there must be a balancing factor. And everybody knows that this factor are the CoCo rules not the core rules. All I can see is that much is spoken and nothing is done.
LLMadCow 08-04-04, 09:27 AM	Gold So far, many people have mentioned gold in their thoughts on balancing the CoCo. I have mentioned this before, and I will mention it again in the future, but .... Paying gold for XP is unbalancing. So far, any suggestion I have made to this effect has been stomped out by others. I made reference to a LA. Nope. I do not recall what all I had mentioned since the LA was what I thought was most fair. However, I have another novel idea! Ban ALL Item Creation Feats and spells requiring XP! Pay full price for the item and if you want to use the spell, buy the scroll! This may sound harsh, but I am sincere when I say that no real campaign is going to have one wizard crafting every aspect of an item and another wizard just throwing his XP in there! I do not believe that is how it was intended to work. [Note]I do think that Familiars should still be allowed, but I think that when the Arena does Ressurections, it should charge for them. (This would be partially a RP aspect for the character.) Scenario Arena Enforcer "Joe says if ya want the pigeon back, ya gots ta pay the piper. [Enter some determined FAIR formula]" Player "That's my owl, not a pigeon! My precious ****!" Arena Enforcer "A bird's a bird! Cough up the gold, or Joe's having 'Dead Familiar cordon bleu' ... or perhaps 'Dead Familiar ala king' Yeah, dat's it, A LA KING!" Player "STOP IT. I'm getting sick to my stomach. Here's your gold." Arena Enforcer "It's always nice to do business with ya."
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-04, 09:39 AM	Originally posted by Dawnlord All I can see is that much is spoken and nothing is done. The point is Dawn is to speak first and decide later. Otherwise we end up with poorly administered new-rule enforcement which hurts CoCo. I'm finding this open dialogue very interesting and i'm glad that people are taking a more active part. @LL: Ouch!...that's a little harsh. @All: Suggestions to improve melee builds and maintain competitiveness...take 3 levels of a caster. You only lose one bab, you gain saves, and you have some diversity. You also get access to scribe scroll, brew potions, craft wonderous items. All of which could be put to immense use for your melee build. Especially the potions since they don't require any components and don't make any noise if you plan on hiding and buffing. Let's start thinking more about builds and tactics rather than a heavy handed approach at nerfing when we haven't seen the full impact of strong meleers with diversity. -ToK
Dawnlord 08-04-04, 09:53 AM	The point is Dawn is to speak first and decide later.Sure. I just didn't noticed that this debate is in such an early state. :zzz:
Rabid Labrador 08-04-04, 10:50 AM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket @All: Suggestions to improve melee builds and maintain competitiveness...take 3 levels of a caster. You only lose one bab, you gain saves, and you have some diversity. You also get access to scribe scroll, brew potions, craft wonderous items. All of which could be put to immense use for your melee build. Especially the potions since they don't require any components and don't make any noise if you plan on hiding and buffing. Let's start thinking more about builds and tactics rather than a heavy handed approach at nerfing when we haven't seen the full impact of strong meleers with diversity. -ToK I think this is an important point worthy of deeper consideration. The game was not balanced by the designers from the standpoint of one-on-one class vs class combat power. Not to say they gave no thought to it, but it certainly wasn't at the top of their list of design goals. I think they focused on things that apply more to playing in groups (i.e. the standard four person adventuring party). The most important things there are spotlight time and niche protection, not necessarily damage output in combat. That is, everyone should have the opportunity to have some things they do better than everyone else, and everyone's character should be able to contribute meaningully to an adventure. So, for example, if a rogue saves the party a number of HP's worth of damage by handling traps, but doesn't do much in the final battle against the Big Bad Guy, things are still balanced because the rogue made a meaningful contribution. So the game's mechanisms assume that balance needs to be applied to a group of characters. The party's fighter won't be paying full price all along for magical gear because the party Wizard will make it for him. The party cleric won't always be a better meleer than the fighter, because he'll be casting many of those buff spells on the fighter. The fighter won't be blowing huge sums of money on fly potions because the Wizard can just cast it on him when needed. And so on. The CoC, however, measures a characters self sufficiency by removing him from the four member party support group. This means that multi-classed characters should be more powerful here than they would be in an adventuring party context. So too with casters, who are usually responsible for providing much of a party's versatility and power, but are usually limited by resource (spells per day). Anyways, all just food for thought.
LLMadCow 08-04-04, 11:04 AM	Well, I know how much everyone loves being able to pay 5gp per XP, so I have come up with the PERFECT idea for my next character. Experience Broker See, my idea is to build an awesome character. I don't know what classes, nor do I know race or anything else. What I do know is that he is selling his XP to advance his gold. For the 1st four fights he wins, he will sell off that XP. So when he finally reaches level 3, he has an additional 40,000 gp [(2000xp * 5gp) * 4 Fights = 40,000gp]. Then if he does this for EVERY LEVEL, he will come out with an additional 880,000gp above and beyond the normal 49,000 by the time he reaches level 10. I figure he will be invincible, by the sheer amount of gold he has to spend on magical items. This will just insure his success. I figure make him a Fighter/Barbarian/Rogue or some sort that way the fighters are finally able to have an edge. I RECOMMEND THAT ALL NON-SPELLCASTERS WASTE SEVERAL LEVELS ON EXPERIENCE BROKER! This class is not available to any class that has the option to craft magical items. [Edited for math.]
Ethendril 08-04-04, 11:49 AM	I completely agree that the CoCo's primary focus should be being Core. However, I do not think that balance and Coreness are mutually exclusive. I absolutely agree with Ashenai on this. Our focus should be core, but we can alter certain things to make the arena balanced as well. If we are saying that the reason casters should have pre-buffs is because they have pre-buffs in campaigns, then we should make also try to set up the coliseum format so that other characters start combat the way they would in a real campaign. What rogue starts combat standing in the middle of nowhere? None do. The rogue already sneaked up ahead, saw what the party would face, and then hides before combat starts. Why don't we start with the rogues hidden if they want to? Melee characters in a real campaign receive some buff-ups from the cleric and wizard to help them in combat. Why don't we allow the melee characters to start with bull's endurance? All I'm trying to say is that we are focusing on the fact that in a core campaign, casters start combat with pre-buffs, but other characters also start with pre-buffs (rogue is hidden, fighter has buffs from other party members). I don't think that it is an attack on "core-ness" to suggest that we find a way to equalize the playing field, because non-casters also have tricks to use before combat. We just don't simulate that here. All I can see is that much is spoken and nothing is done. This is actually a true statement. Not that it is all bad, because we shouldn't simply change things here every few days, but we start a discussion, everyone has a different viewpoint, and then it just dies. We never change anything until we reach a crisis. Even on the handle animal/animate dead, I recall that almost everyone, including Cat, once supported this idea. We just never pulled the trigger before. So we'll talk about it here for a while, no one will agree, and they we will leave things status quo. If we reach a crisis in the future, we may vote on it later. Wake me up when we do.:zzz:
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-04, 12:50 PM	I think i have it. This was a topic discussed back in the period of when fighters ruled the Arena. NPC SPELLCASTING! I would like to re-open this discussion and get some input. There are several ways to look at it. 1. To allow Non-Casters access to NPC spellcasting for pre-buff's starting from level 8 onward. 2. To allow all gladiators level 8 and above with LESS THAN 8 caster levels to purchase pre-buffs. Obviously waiting until level 8 to purchase pre-buff's is the wiser choice here, because it properly simulates when single classed spell-casters gain the ability to pre-buff themselves. Even if it's Fighter 1/Wizard 7, you are only delaying the ability to pre-buff by one level anyhow so it's not that big of a deal. Obviously we would have to put a cap and limit that which can be pre-buffed. You don't really wanna see a fighter coming in with an NPC spell casted pre-buffed 16 hour improved invis, or 16 hour endurances and what-not. I know it's stupid, you can't really believe someone would pe a 960'th level spell caster 19200gp for a prebuff bear's endurance, but i think you get the picture. Or a 9600th level caster 384,000gp for prebuff, imp. invis. LOL So i think it's pretty balanced. Some common pre-buff's. Mage Armor, cost 80gp False Life, cost 160 gp (1d10+8), or 200gp (1d10+10) Neither of these are particulalry ground-breaking or fight altering for the meleer. Plus this still remains a very Core idea, and it helps the balance issue somewhat. Honestly, i think this is a step in the right direction rather than the harsh and sacrificial anti-core house rules that we'd be making to "balance" things. This achieves all our goals, even on a small scale it helps the meleers. I would like you all to consider this option rather than bickering back and forth about core, non-core, balance this, and broken that. I've put forth a legit proposal to the members to consider and i find this option, neither unbalancing nor un-core. It does truely reflect the ideas and principles of the CoCo and it's metropolis-like atmosphere. Please lets discuss this over any other none-sense. We need to take make change in small steps and then analyze the results. Too drastic of a change and it really disrupts things in a hurry. -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 01:01 PM	Hey ToK. Did you know that what you propose was already within the rules of the CoCo? In fact, Viciocelis was planning to buy a 16 hour Greater Magic Weapon for certain special occations. Since NPC spellcasting is allowed as in a campagin, it is perfectly legal with the current system and no changes are needed. Besides the Caster Cap. Edit: Oops. I was searching the rules of the CoCo and it seems its only available when casting prebuffs into spellstoring rings and the like. :P
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-04, 01:09 PM	NO, Druid, in fact it is not currently allowed. That's why i'm proposing it. -ToK **EDIT TO SAVE SCROLL SPACE** Thx Druid. I would like to start some dialogue on this. Some really dialogue and proposals to modifications of the idea and anything people might want to add. We have some time since it's a full week to the next pairings and still lots of time for the fights to be posted, we can get some really good opinions on this and make it law before the next pairings. I want to hear other thoughts on this, both on it's implementation and ramifications to CoCo. -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 01:11 PM	In that case I would like it allowed. I like your proposal.
Caterane 08-04-04, 02:26 PM	Jindl: Once upon a time... Nice story Jindl. Let me tell this story in my words: We settled on this new continent (CO board) because of the destruction in Europe (Lgrtr thread) and began building up our small wooden cottages. But over time we became more and more people and villages. Today we have big cities and metrolpolises. You however are still living on the land with your Amish lifestyle and your plowshare, so why don't you begin to move to the city with the rest of us? However, in the city are rules and in the city there is equality (balance) and these laws have to be obeyed else the Cop catches you ;) Jindl: We didn't care about balance. Quite the contrary, we were looking for imbalance. By definition, in seeking to come up with the most powerful builds, we were searching the Core rules for the most imbalanced character concepts. Because it was just a simple thread with 10 people. We were born out of the CO board but we have way way surpassed this status. We have an own board now and this is here to have fun and as every other game it has to be balanced, or do you think it's appropriate that the 'shoe' in Monopoly starts with twice the cash than the 'car'? And you can still optimize your character but not because of the unbalanced internal CoCo Rules!! Let Angosh start in a 15ft room with a spellcaster and we'll see how long the wizzy fares. What we have here is a setting that favors casters (arena, CoCo rules, etc). You may be perfectly happy with it but I want to change this setting so that everyone has equal chances. Again: I am NOT changing the D&D Core rules, I am changing the CoCo rules. And if we've balanced these CoCo rules THEN you can optimize your character and be proud of it because everyone had equal chances at the beginning of the battle. Think about that. Ethendril: Eliminating pre-buffs would be another step towords putting melee back twords even with casters. Pre-buffs allow casters to start the fight basicly with actions already preformed. Prebuffs would be a little step but a big step to boring fights. Casters have enough ways to buff savely from the very first level on by using a scroll of rope trick and the higher in level the more options they have. However, no one wants to read the buff list with mage armor and false life. We have other and better means to balance the CoCo. If it is still unbalanced after that we can discuss this anew. Ashenai/Tok: New arena.../Moathouse style This is something I haven't lost out of mind and I'm sure that we'll eventually have new maps. I proposed long ago to make 4 different maps for low/mid/high/epic levels respectively with more structures. Rayne posted 2 maps and I created the maps thread to encourage more maps. You'll get credits for every map you post and that is approved. In the end we'll chose the 4 best ones. The central obstacle is a great thing and we should make more adjustments like lowering the ceiling to perhaps 100 ft. It will also be hard for a fireball mage when there are so many obstacles. Ashenai: Random starting positions... Another very good idea that. We should keep this in mind. Ashenai: Different gold prices... THis is also a good idea though difficult to track and it would complicate the CoCo. The best idea IMO is this: Tellish of Ket: NPC SPELLCASTING! Wow :thumbsup: Very good idea! Make it from level 8 on where the straight caster can do this at the earliest. So let's stick with this new idea. This allows noncasters to get a few spells for cheap money whereas casters won't benefit from it. Let's leave the HA as they are so that fighters can have their big buddy. I don't care about the undead rule but if you think this will balance the fighter vs spellcaster problem, go ahead (CR-4). Some other things: Druid Roxors: - Loremaster HA Abuse - Cleric HA Abuse - Druid HA Abuse (Yes) - Bard HA Abuse - There's one loremaster out (Professor) and I'll rather take leadership than a feeble HA ally. I'd get a Lvl 11 sorcerer or cleric with leadership. This is stronger than ANY ally available and I'm just lvl 13! - Cleric's have no HA class skill. How can they abuse it? - Druid's have their share spells companion with improved HD which is 100times better than anything on the HA list - Bard??? Abuse?? Ethendril: One more possibility on the hippogriff is to wait until you have the funds to purchase it. It costs 3000 gp for a young hippogriff, and 1000 gp to have someone else train it. So for 4000 gp you could buy it without any skills in handle animal. That would take a few levels, though. LOL Ethendril, please. Don't let him WASTE 4000 gp on an ally that won't be ressurected. Losing 4000 is even much at lvl 14, and neck breaking on lvl 4. This vote KILLED bought animals. No one will ever spend so much money when it can die! In any case, if I ever encounter a gladiator with a bought (and expensive) mount, be assured that I'm gonna kill it, even if I lose the fight then. Damaging his accuont by 4000 is so fat!
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 03:09 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Druid Roxors: I have also said, perhaps too many times, that fighters are underpowered and that it is AS DESIGNED. And I've said it before: this argument is so unnecessary as anything else. I'll say it again (and again and again): WE ARE HERE TO PROVIDE AN EQUAL PLAYGROUND FOR EVERY CLASS!! Put Angosh in this 15x15ft room and it looks completely different. Are you going to cry out 'casters are supposed to be underpowered' then? Please Druid Roxors, drop this statement because this is getting us nowhere. I'm not going to respond to this any further. Cat, Do me a favor and READ THE REST Of THE POST. You will find amusing that your answer to it has nothing to do with the post itself. Here, Ill link you directly to it, perhaps it is too far behind on the thread already: Originally posted by Druid Roxors I believe that Jindl has hit the nail on the head. The true purpose of the CoCo was to optimize builds and I believed I had mentioned it several times in the past. I have also said, perhaps too many times, that fighters are underpowered and that it is AS DESIGNED. I have described how Even when "Nerfing-Houseruling" casters they would still win against fighters. This is intended by the rules of the book. Now, on to the current state of the CoCo, Jindl, it has certainly become a different place than the one I found on the Optimization Boards. New players and Ideals are springing up, wanting to change the face of the CoCo forever. I believe that the days of its true purpose have come to an end and instead this has become a game, Entertainment for the masses. It is no longer an experiment, it is a hobby, something fun which people wish to keep that way. Perhaps it is time to take a step in another direction. Switch the focus of the CoCo from its ancient roots. Know that if your caster is competitive at higher levels with the upcoming "House-Rules" it will "Rule Completely" on the old Arena. The true purpose of this place would have been met and you would still know the best builds and strategies for they will be used by Casters. Although just my opinion, this is not the same Core Arena it was before, and I like it as it is, was and will be.Emphazis mine. I would appreciate that instead of bashing you give credit.
Caterane 08-04-04, 03:16 PM	Ok :thumbsup:
Ethendril 08-04-04, 03:18 PM	LOL Ethendril, please. Don't let him WASTE 4000 gp on an ally that won't be ressurected. Losing 4000 is even much at lvl 14, and neck breaking on lvl 4. Your vote (and the other ones) KILLED bought animals. No sane person will ever spend so much money when it can die! Perhaps you see the consequences now... @Cat: He simply asked a question, and I gave an answer. And if you look at the Senate vote, I have favored free resurrection of allies on every single vote, as I am in favor of no permanent harm to a gladiator. Perhaps you should check the facts before you make allegations. I'm not sure if you realize how condescending you can be sometimes.
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 03:25 PM	I'm not sure if you realize how condescending you can be sometimesCouldn't have said it better.
Caterane 08-04-04, 03:28 PM	Hm, I was sure I remembered being the only one with the free ressurection issue. Sorry then. Still, you know that telling a newbie who doesn't know about the impact to spend 4000 gold on a virtual one-shot item is not a good advice. He'll do it, and he'll get a bad surprise. Just stating the obvious. :( Edit: edited my post above :)
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-04, 03:46 PM	Enough of who said, he said, i said. We have a legit proposal that seems to have been recieved kindly. Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket 1. To allow Non-Casters access to NPC spellcasting for pre-buff's starting from level 8 onward. 2. To allow all gladiators level 8 and above with LESS THAN 8 caster levels to purchase pre-buffs. Which one seems more logical? Is there anything else that people would like to add or see to this proposal? Let's take a second away from our busy soap opera and get down to business. ;) -ToK
Jindl 08-04-04, 03:57 PM	@Tellish - Well, lets look at some comparisons: The most common prebuffs are longstrider, false life, mage armor, greater magic fang, greater magic vestment, greater magic weapon, and phantom steed. Longstrider, False life, and Phantom Steed are personal spells, so they can't be purchased from a NPC. Mage Armor would cost 160 gp (16 x 10 gp or 8 x 20 gp for extended mage armor). But compared to bracers of armor +4 (16000 gp) that means you could buy mage armor prebuff for 100 fights before it would be better to get the bracers. Greater magic fang has a permanency application (which costs like 5000 gp). But who would ever buy a permanent one when they could just get the prebuffed one for 320 gp a fight? Of course, Brackin, Rito Maya, and some of the others who already paid >5000 gp for the permanency might be a little upset if we decide that they could have just paid a couple of hundred gp. Greater magic weapon/vestment have the same issues. Why buy a magic weapon or magic armor for thousands of gold when you can instead just buy the prebuff for 320 gp? I mean, a +5 magic sword costs 200000 gp, but a +5 greater magic weapon only costs 600 gp. And if a PC wanted to buy the prebuff now, they already could, just get a potion: +5 greater magic weapon for 3000 gp. Since the potion has a duration of 20 hours, it is a valid prebuff. But at least its cost is more in line with what should be appropriate. I guess the point I'm making is that there are few prebuffs that could be bought, and most of those are simulated by permanency effects and magic items. Allowing prebuffs to be purchased will eliminate the need for these magic items or these permanency effects. I do not think this is the right way to go. -Jindl
Jindl 08-04-04, 04:06 PM	Re: The Griffon question - Caterane, why are you even concerned with the risk a 4th level PC takes when buying a Griffon? Don't you realize that a griffon is a 7 HD monster, with an ECL of 10 and a CR of 4. Under the rules, you could get him as a cohort at 12th level, or you could train him with a HA of +17 as early as 8th level. It's so unbalancing for a Level 4 PC to have one of these that there should be an enourmous financial risk to getting one. -Jindl
Caterane 08-04-04, 04:07 PM	Spellcasting service: So what do you propose instead? Griffon: Yes, that's right but at later levels a griffon is dead in no time and 4000 are buried with him. I'd be in favor of mercenaries that are perfectly adapted to a given level. Example: Griffon mercenary at lvl 10 for 4000 gp (or something like that)
MotherBast 08-04-04, 04:27 PM	I have been thinking about the issue of the CoCo being a Character Op tool for a long time. Thats what it begain as. I always assumed that what it still was. I know thats why I'm here. Now I see CAT, one of our GMs, state that this is no longer our purpose. Now, we are a game. Now balance is more important. Well, personaly, I didn't come here to find balance. I came her to find IMBALANCE. I came to the CoCo, back when it was the ARENA, to find the absolute most Broken concepts that could be found, and use them in my games. I don't care if melees are balanced aginst casters in the CoCo, for 2 reasons. First, they aren't balanced in a real D&D game, and second, finding balance has (or at least HAD) nothing to do with the purpose of the CoCo. Maybe that purpose has changed. Maybe instead of a CO tool the CoCo has now become its own "D20" game. If it has, yeah for the CoCo. I'll root for it while I surf on back to the CO boards. See, thats why I'm here. Cha Op. Not balance. If the CoCo has lost the mission, then I'll step aside and let the new guys have their fun. Its just not what I'm here for. I'm not saying balance in the CoCo is bad, just that its not the reason the CoCo was created, and if it becomes the focus of the CoCo, then the CoCo has lost the mission, and found a new one. One I'm not intrested in. I'll just return to the CO boards with no hard feelings. I'm just really not intrested in any D20 games besides D&D, and it seems the current idea for the CoCo is to make it a game of its own, balance and all.
Caterane 08-04-04, 04:58 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast Well, personaly, I didn't come here to find balance. I came her to find IMBALANCE. I came to the CoCo, back when it was the ARENA, to find the absolute most Broken concepts that could be found, and use them in my games. I don't care if melees are balanced aginst casters in the CoCo, for 2 reasons. First, they aren't balanced in a real D&D game, and second, finding balance has (or at least HAD) nothing to do with the purpose of the CoCo. You are not looking for imbalance. You are looking for a strong character build. That is still the main purpose of the CoCo. But tell me, how much is your character worth when he fights with obvious advantages? If your wizard can kill a fighter in 2 rounds in an open plain prebuffed to the roof, does this reflect your characters superiority, or does is rather show that you fought in the most favorable setting? Will your wizard survive in a dungeon room against the same fighter? You'll never find out how good you are because you're throwing stones at a bound and gagged person sitting in the corner! Imbalance is when one sprinter starts 50 ft infront of the other one; both using the same rules (D&D 3.5) but one of them is favored by the setting. Is that what you seek?
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 05:00 PM	Yes, I agree with you Motherbast, but you must understand the pont I am trying to make. This place was forged to find Imbalance, I agree, and it is being changed due to that: Imbalance. So, how can you not find Imbalance if that is exactly what is provoking a change? Corinthus has a higher purpose, he has a final technique that will inspire "shock and awe" on all who witness it and fear on all who oppose him. Perhaps its imbalance, Could be, But! you FOUND IMBALANCE! The only difference is that once you find it, you fix it. This place is like playtesting, you play arround finding bugs in order to fix them. Once you find them, you know them, you Know Imbalance and the purpose for this board has been met. Even if the new direction of the board is to find balance, we will find the imbalance on the way. There cannot be balance without Imbalance, if that is what you are looking for then you will certainly find it.
Sindorin 08-04-04, 05:04 PM	This is probably a bit off-topic compared to balance vs. optimization... Has anyone here taken interest in the fact that we have at least one new person posting a Gladiator every day? I can definitely tell the whole signature thing is working, this place IS growing... but I'm worried that we're going to start losing members if this bickering doesn't stop. two bits from probably the least experienced D&D player in the coliseum.
Jindl 08-04-04, 05:07 PM	@MB - Here, here! I'm glad to see at least someone else shares my opinion. Although, in truth, Tellish said pretty much the same thing when he said that we should be trying to optimize fighters better instead of trying to nerf casters. Character Optimization is the reason for the CoCo. Word. @Cat - I think we made the right decision when we disallowed purchased spellcasting in general. We still allow equipment type prebuffs to be purchased from NPC's (things like filling spell storing items, or casting spells that have a permanent until triggered duration). But we really shouldn't allow purchased prebuffs that are not equipment type. (If you're still wondering what the difference is, read the FAQ where prebuffs are sorted into equipment type and slotted prebuffs). Re: The Griffon - Well, I would point out that Kage has had a griffon ally for 5 or 6 fights now, and Arashi has yet to die. Kage is now ECL 11. I think you underestimate the power of a griffon. Regardless, the CoCo should be about using the best builds, not about who can buy/train/animate the best allies. That's what I meant when I said, "I'm also disappointed in the CoCo now, when I look at gladiators who rely on their handled animals or animated dead to win the fight, instead of their build itself." It should not be a place where we try to balance the classes so that a pure fighter becomes a good build. Instead, we should recognize that it is not normally a good build when compared to the Rng/Brb/HW or the Ftr/Clr, etc. Why are we trying to balance things to make weak builds competitive instead of trying to make more powerful builds? That's what MB, Tellish, and I are saying. -Jindl
Caterane 08-04-04, 05:09 PM	You want imbalance? Ok, let's drop the prememorization completely, eliminate all allies except druid's, make the arena an open plain 2000 ft long with no obstacles and no roof and starting position on the extreme end. You want more imbalance? Ok, let's allow all spells prebuffed with a duration of 1rnd/lvl, and make crafted items half price instead of 7/10. Hey, we're still CORE!! Wow, and we're now perfectly imbalanced. Again: is this what seek? Imbalance???
Ethendril 08-04-04, 05:13 PM	Originally posted by Sindorin This is probably a bit off-topic compared to balance vs. optimization... Has anyone here taken interest in the fact that we have at least one new person posting a Gladiator every day? I can definitely tell the whole signature thing is working, this place IS growing... but I'm worried that we're going to start losing members if this bickering doesn't stop. I've noticed this, too, Sindorin. I think it's great we are getting so many new members. This place is fun, for those who can look past the bickering. Sadly, any request to stop flaming/put-downs/etc. falls on deaf ears, as the worst offenders all think you are talking about someone else.;)
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 05:18 PM	Which is why I ressurected the old "Casters" thread. But nobody seems to be going there. :( Aemon Vs Dusk has been Posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4123048#post4123048) Please direct any and All concerns to the Comments and Concerns (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=284121) thread
Jindl 08-04-04, 05:28 PM	@Caterane - As Druid Roxors said, sometimes you seem to miss certain statements within a post. And though his example was probably more evident that this one, I do think you missed one of the important statements I made, perhaps because you were too busy mocking me. So let me highlight it for you: I could go on and on, but the point was to create a nuetral environment that approximated a campaign in which to test/improve/optimize Core builds that could be used in a real game. Read what I am saying. We want a nuetral environment that approximates a campaign. Casting 16 hour duration prebuffs on yourself approximates a campaign. Paying someone 320 gp a day to cast mage armor on you probably does not approximate a campaign, unless the PC's are fantastically wealthy. Rearing a baby Roc as an ally (which takes >5 years) probably does not approximate a campaign. Most campaigns occur where there is some sporadic cover, some starting distance between opponents, enough space to fly, etc. - which was very well reflected by the original arena (and Tellish - I would love to go back to it as well, but thats another topic). Having gladiators fight in a 15x15 ft room or a 2000 ft open plain does not approximate a campaign. I have no issues with trying to get the best "nuetral environment". But the balancing you are talking about either does not approximate a campaign, or is more about balancing the classes than it is about creating an environment to optimize Core builds. You seem to think your duty as a GM is to balance the game for the players here. I disagree completely. Our duty as GM's is to keep the game running smoothly. Your put downs, condescending attitude, etc, are really causing problems with this. Hardly a page goes by where you don't have a post which insults someone, usually me. Other players and Elders, like Druid Roxors, Ethendril, Beldin, and others have attempted to let you know this already. Try discussing your points without being insulting. As for my duty as a GM, its explained pretty well in the quote above: To create a nuetral environment that approximated a campaign in which to test/improve/optimize Core builds that could be used in a real game. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-04, 06:00 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Tellish - Well, lets look at some comparisons: The most common prebuffs are longstrider, false life, mage armor, greater magic fang, greater magic vestment, greater magic weapon, and phantom steed. Longstrider, False life, and Phantom Steed are personal spells, so they can't be purchased from a NPC. Mage Armor would cost 160 gp (16 x 10 gp or 8 x 20 gp for extended mage armor). But compared to bracers of armor +4 (16000 gp) that means you could buy mage armor prebuff for 100 fights before it would be better to get the bracers. Greater magic fang has a permanency application (which costs like 5000 gp). But who would ever buy a permanent one when they could just get the prebuffed one for 320 gp a fight? Of course, Brackin, Rito Maya, and some of the others who already paid >5000 gp for the permanency might be a little upset if we decide that they could have just paid a couple of hundred gp. Greater magic weapon/vestment have the same issues. Why buy a magic weapon or magic armor for thousands of gold when you can instead just buy the prebuff for 320 gp? I mean, a +5 magic sword costs 200000 gp, but a +5 greater magic weapon only costs 600 gp. And if a PC wanted to buy the prebuff now, they already could, just get a potion: +5 greater magic weapon for 3000 gp. Since the potion has a duration of 20 hours, it is a valid prebuff. But at least its cost is more in line with what should be appropriate. I guess the point I'm making is that there are few prebuffs that could be bought, and most of those are simulated by permanency effects and magic items. Allowing prebuffs to be purchased will eliminate the need for these magic items or these permanency effects. I do not think this is the right way to go. -Jindl Ok, i respect your opinion, so instead of saying the WHOLE IDEA is bad, we can see how easily some area's can be abused. Your comparison on the mage armor however doesn't hold water however. Wizards get it for free, it's just a little something extra. Most fighters will have platemail anyhow. But for those few that don't, give them the same access as mages, only they have to pay a little. How about this then. Instead of just saying, "No i don't like it." How about make a suggestion then on what would be appropriate. Let's say something like. Mage armor 160 gp False life 320 gp And besides, if fighters can never stand toe-to-toe with a wizard whats the difference if he/she had a +5 sword, or even a +20 sword? They never get close. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying include the greater magic weapons etc... Now don't get me wrong, i'm more for Cha Op (as MB puts it) as well. I'm not the one screaming for balance. But if something needs to be done to assist those that do want a little balance i don't think Mage Armor/False life pre-buff is asking for too much. It's really a small step, doesn't unbalance anything that's for sure as well. Just something very small to consider. If people still think this is a bad idea, or a step towards non-core/campaign style attitude, i'm fine with that as well. I just thought it was a good idea, with little to no risk of disrupting any kind of balance, but gives meleers just a little extra whoomph. @MB/Jindl: I hear ya. -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 06:16 PM	Think of it this way: Why wouldnt the party wizard cast Mage armor on himself AND the Rogue?
MotherBast 08-04-04, 06:29 PM	I don't know too many melees who wouldn't be packing the mithral shirt by level 8. Way better that mage armor, and less costly after a few fights. False life can't be cast on anyone but the caster, so no price will ever make this an acceptable pre-buff for fighters. I don't see the NPC spellcasting helping fighters do anything but spend less money on gear, which will actually make the CoCo less reflective of a real D&D game, which is bad in my opinion. I like the idea, but it seems that all the possible buffs are either soooo much cheaper than comparable gear as to make the gear obslolete, or they are so outclassed by gear that no fighter would buy them. The idea I've liked best so far would be random starting positions, and maybe lower the cealing.
Jindl 08-04-04, 06:35 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast I like the idea, but it seems that all the possible buffs are either soooo much cheaper than comparable gear as to make the gear obslolete, or they are so outclassed by gear that no fighter would buy them. The idea I've liked best so far would be random starting positions, and maybe lower the cealing. I agree completely. The sentence I highlighted is exactly what I was trying to prove. I also like the random starting positions a lot. I don't think I would lower the ceiling, however. In fact, I'd like to raise it to 200 ft. The ability to fly is an powerful advantage in a real campaign, and we should reflect that hear. The dangers of falling is also a real danger in a campaign. Having a little bit farther to fall doesn't sound like a bad idea. -Jindl
Ethendril 08-04-04, 07:03 PM	There have been many, many ideas proposed here over the last few days. I have also seen complaints that people talk a lot here, but nothing ever gets done. This is my proposal to help get things done faster. We'll compare it to an actual legislative body. Here are the proposed steps for having your idea become law. 1. Propose your idea. For example, Tellish proposes random starting positions. 2. Two people (could be more or less) formally agree with your idea. You would not just say "that sounds good," but you would formally give a second, then a third vote to that idea. Continuing the example, Jindl might second the idea, and MotherBast's vote makes it a third. 3. If two people have agreed with your idea, start a new thread. In the thread, we can spend one week (could be more or less) in debate. Here, everyone can discuss the idea (or, since some insist on flaming, flame away in that thread). 4. If, during the debate, six people (could be more or less) agree that the idea is sound, it will go for a vote in the Council of Elders (Senate). This would, again, be formal endorsement of the idea, so whoever posts doesn't just say "that sounds fun," but formally votes for the idea. This helps weed out ideas that don't have much support, but also presents the Council of Elders with the ideas that have the most support (rather than being someone's pet issue). 5. It goes to the Council of Elders. If it passes there, it is law. There are three reasons this would be good: (1) less confusion here as multiple ideas are proposed, (2) everyone can have a voice, even if only a few make the final vote, and (3) things will actually get done.
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 07:11 PM	Originally posted by Jindl I agree completely. The sentence I highlighted is exactly what I was trying to prove. I also like the random starting positions a lot.But I have no Idea how to hide them from the enemy... I mean, if you get a non-standard starting position you will be even closer to the enemy and visible, making initiative much more important. I don't think I would lower the ceiling, however. In fact, I'd like to raise it to 200 ft. The ability to fly is an powerful advantage in a real campaign, and we should reflect that hear. The dangers of falling is also a real danger in a campaign. Having a little bit farther to fall doesn't sound like a bad idea.Telekinessis anyone?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-04, 07:15 PM	@Eth: It was MB/Jindl that recomended random starting positions. Ah yes, False life can't be done. Ok, oh well, i tried to resurrect a new idea and seems like it's just as a bad idea now as it was back then. Ok, so what does most people seem to like? random starting positions and removing the huge central obstacle. I'm in favor of removing the huge central obstacle, but i haven't given random starting positions a lot of thought. How about we start with one topic at a time? Removing the huge central obstacle. This is a phantom-steeders wet dream come true. I know Pale-Rider was the first to show us how truely powerful this mount can be in the arena. By removing the central obstacle(s), then the advantage isn't only the phantom-steeders. Sure he can still get to the opposite side and back in one shot, so nothing changes there and thus nothing is lost with the removal of the obstacle. I don't want to start another thread with this topic only and i don't think it needs to be discussed for a full week. People have seen for themselves that this obstacle has done nothing to improve the fights in the CoCo and in fact has done more harm than good. So can i get an Amen? -ToK **EDIT** I like the ceiling height where it is, imo.
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 07:18 PM	How about replacing the Central obstacle with one full round of Fog. Visibility 50 ft. Coupled with random starting positions, I believe this could be intresting. Perhaps for a custom map.
Caterane 08-04-04, 07:43 PM	@Jindl: I am just saying that imbalance and optimization are two different shoes. The former one is the enviroment in the CoCo which has little to do with being Core. The latter one is what you make out of your character given the enviroment. Both are possible and this is what I want to create - a balanced enviroment where every class has equal chances and everyone can maximize. If you - after that balance step - create a killer character I pad you on the shoulder and congratulate you for your build. However, as it is now I don't consider it a great feat when Professor Dre stomps over Angosh or Jindl eats Kage. The most important point where we clash together all the time is this balance CoCo vs reflect campaign. I don't think we should try to reflect a campaign in any case because we can never copy this. We would need random maps (dungeon, plains, city, etc), random starting positions, spellcasters can't memorize anew for some fights, you can't buy but find items randomly, and so on and so on. This will never work. Instead we should focus to create a fair ARENA where gladiatorial matches are fought, and which is considered an arena and not some abstract version of an adventuring party. You mentioned some examples, but you didn't list everything which reflects a campaign. Does your wizard memorize only combat spells? Does your spellcaster memorize anew after every fight? Does he fight 1 on 1? No, no, and no. If you want to go campaign - and you're making no effort to hide this - then bring in the disadvantages aswell. As it is now, it is in no way a campaign. But as I said, we should forget about this campaign idea and create a Core Coliseum
freemoody 08-04-04, 07:54 PM	I really like the large central obstacle. When Lillith was at lvl 4, Vaarkalikax won inititive, moved forward on his horse and cast Evards Black Tentcles on her. Effectively ending the fight on the first round. That isn't possible with the obstacle. Which is the main reason why it was added. Phantom Steed basicly ignores it tho. I would really like to get rid of first rounds kills like this for good.
Sindorin 08-04-04, 08:04 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril I've noticed this, too, Sindorin. I think it's great we are getting so many new members. This place is fun, for those who can look past the bickering. Sadly, any request to stop flaming/put-downs/etc. falls on deaf ears, as the worst offenders all think you are talking about someone else.;) Yes, it is fun... but sadly as well I believe that the bickering I have sat here watching REALLY GETS IN OUR WAY. People have told me on here that this is the best place to learn, but while I'm on here I can't LEARN it by myself (unless i just plagiarize a higher level character similar to mine). I am one of those people that likes to have someone help me solve things, especially here where there are people that know the game as well as I've seen. The namecalling/endless debating is kind of discouraging to me who is trying to learn and thus I have basically started reading everything that comes through here and a few of the other threads. You're not the only one who's told me that you just look over it. The problem is, not everyone can do that.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-04, 08:08 PM	Originally posted by freemoody I really like the large central obstacle. When Lillith was at lvl 4, Vaarkalikax won inititive, moved forward on his horse and cast Evards Black Tentcles on her. Effectively ending the fight on the first round. That isn't possible with the obstacle. Which is the main reason why it was added. Phantom Steed basicly ignores it tho. I would really like to get rid of first rounds kills like this for good. This is still possible Freemoody. A horse (light/heavy) can easily trot the distance to get a clear line of sight and evards you. Also a gladiator with a move of 30' can also do this by simply moving his maximum distance (although he/she won't see you) and target the square 20' away from you, catching you at the edge. The central obstacle offers no security from that kind of defeat. -ToK
Caterane 08-04-04, 08:20 PM	If we remove the central obstacle we have to add another thing that prevents the win-ini win-fight scenario. And it DID do a lot! Perhaps the 2 phantom steeders can go around it but Bruno can't, and neither can Bilo or Jindl or Johan cast a medium level spell vs flatfooted. What we've seen is that the Central Obstacle is not enough. Removing it is a step back where only initiative counted. The solution to the first round kills is random starting positions, 4 of them with C an D being north and south. To prevent 1st round detection we have to raise short walls infront of the starting positions. Easy and elegant.
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 08:24 PM	So what do you think about the "No obstacle, 4 locations, Fogged Arena" Idea? You have Line of effect but no Line of sight. 4 different possibilities and ~50ft sight range. I believe this could help alot. (Fog lasts 1 full round)
Caterane 08-04-04, 08:57 PM	The Central Obstacle needs to stay. It makes the spellcasters life harder since he cannot cast fireballs from the other side. Infact I think we need even more obstacles => that's the reason for the MAP thread. Obstacle = fighter's friend
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 09:02 PM	Originally posted by Caterane The Central Obstacle needs to stay. It makes the spellcasters life harder since he cannot cast fireballs from the other side. Infact I think we need even more obstacles => that's the reason for the MAP thread. Obstacle = fighter's friend Remember, if the fog provides no Line of Sight then the wizard will cast his fireball to 1 of 3 different locations. Not that it matters, any caster can move with a mount and clear off from the obstacle.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 08-04-04, 09:04 PM	Well, I just voice out that I am back and ready to participate in the CoCo (I got delaying in the army and this whole last month has passed when I moved whit my mom). I want to pitlord again, and to notify the people that I do not have my books and dices, so everything happens via net (SDR helps alot to pitlord work). My char stays as inactive still (I truly need 24 credits before I can play whit him again ;)). I just wondered what heck discussion there has been and readed this page and the last page (sorry if I offend someone or repeat something already said :rolleyes:). You speak ill-balance of arena that it favours too much casters and you try make figthers more casters or bug casters down. There has been also discussion about the central pillar being useless because of some spell. So long there is mages and vast amount of spells and creative imagination, mages can pass ANY rules et to them and be always powerfull (and invisible in higher levels). So let's make simple rule; NO FIGTHER/WARRIOR VS CASTER/PSION MATCHES! I know that this does not test figther's (and other melee chars) potential vs casters, but we have already got dozen of proofs that rarely melee char beats a mage! There is reason why figthers and warriors are afraid of magic users and reason why there is one bad guy wiz vs whole party! If there are more wiz's, then party kills every wiz one by one or finds a way to disable their magics for one round! Think about real life gladiator games; in those matches beef muscled and hearty warriors bang each other whit weapons and try break someone's armor while winning crowds favour! In games casters figth against casters because it is far more exciting to the crowd than just flying mage wich bombards single warrior into skimmer cheese! If somebody says archery, then think this; mage can become invisible! Plus it can negate arrows by protective spells while they boost themselves as invisible and then bombard the figther wich effortlesly tries hit boosted mage wich negate missiles 19 from 20 of the time. So, I propose that figthers figth against figthers, caster vs casters (psionics should be thinked little, examply psycic warrior vs normal figther can end quite quickly). Of course this limits multiclassing, so I propose that there is third match type where multiclassed casters figths against other kinds of mutliclassed casters. If we do so, then the pure structure of each type is tested truly and seen wich structure in each type is strongest! The best warrior! The best caster! The best Jack-Of-All-Trades! Then battles will become more tactical and figthers, casters etc will get chance to test their mettle agaisnt the most difficult foe, foe wich uses same means like him! Think that how much this affects for the preparation of the match? Casters focus to learn and memorize spells how to protect against magic or counter it or dispell it (and add few protection spells vs rays, missile fire or melee from more martial focused wizard). Then figthers will focus how to disarm/break his foes weapon and some then study to figth unarmed in case weapon is losted or learn to escape bear hug strong grapple! If you think about caster consorts whit figthers, then consorts are illegal if other does not have consort or any hired blades/sorcery to aid him. But a martial consort is legal fully and if one figther figths against two foes, he shall get more money from the match if wins. One use magic to figthers then is also legal, if it is accesible to all figthers, it is legal to get magicall items (like wands examply). Of course if you want to test occasionally wiz vs figther build, then it should happen rarely and by request of both parties (not as automatic drawing). I know this changes most basic of CoCo tradition, but sake for ending the arguement/pickering of imbalance and unfairness towards figthers this is my suggestion for it.
Druid Roxors 08-04-04, 09:05 PM	Remember that under your "Walls" idea you can target a fireball behind the walls and still hit him.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-04, 09:23 PM	@Jindl: Whaoh horsie. I just re-read a post and you are claiming to be more in the spirit of campaign. Sorry if it seems like i'm chuckling a bit, but the arena is anything but a campaign simulation. And most of the initial rules, before we barged in, were anything that reflected a campaign simulation. If we are going to simulate campaigns then true res after every fight seems ridiculous, and as it's been pointed out, and i don't want to flog a dead horse, but there are many, many, many things that are "uncampaign like" so i won't bother repeating them. They've been mentioned enough times. It seems like we are never really going to reach any kind of common ground on what to do. Personally, i'd like to see people make better builds and try varied tactics. We can't weaken one class because people don't like meleers or think they are weak, when some have had good success. Those that have been creative enough with their builds and their tactics have had great success. Not as numerous as casters, but that's because casters require less geniusness to play and create them. What we haven't seen is the straight rogue, whom in my honest to goodness opinion is the best CoCo gladiator. I tried with Silencius but people really really hated long sneaky fights and he just go "revealed" and killed, or a rule interpretation wasn't like because i started using it (advanced cover) and was thwarted and killed because stealth is long and boring to run. Actually Kelek was victim of this several times, with people "charging" into the mist and critting him. You can't charge if you're in hamperd terrain, but somehow no one cared to listen. My point is this and i'm not making a personal attack or trying to insult either Jindl or Cat. Jindl is trying to emulate a campaign when nothing in the arena is even close about a campaign and for the most part favors his characters and/or casters (nothing personal, just the way i see it, sorry), and Cat wants balance at the expense of making something more broken to fix something that what is already broken. People are reading and not listening, and we've heard so much lately, "all talk and no action". So i say to ya'll....take action. Create a build that will blow all other builds away, and then see how fast someone who didn't think of it first, will say, "Not fair, needs to be nerfed and balanced." This happened to kelek, silencius, and now spike. Jindl, you are complaining you don't like to see pets win the day, and they are just a few feats in a no-brainer build. Are single classed casters any different? Please don't knock a build just because you don't like it, or you think it gives them an unfair advantage. They built it, and it shouldn't be looked down upon or nerfed because you think it's unfair. And those builds didn't start that way either. They worked their way up the food chain from horse/melee to elephant/melee, to roc/melee. One step at a time. I looked at the feat selection for spike and you can't say his pets was the major part of his vicotry early on. Probably only the last two/three fights, one of which he lost. So please, lets stop trying to change the arena and knocking other peoples creativity and nerfing someones attempt at Character Optimization. Lets try to think of tactics and builds rather than modify the arena to compensate for lack of creativity. Let's face it. There are reasons why the people at the top dominate...they are good at what they do. Focus more on builds, more on tactics, and less on boo-hoo'ing. I hope some people understand where i'm coming from. I just hate seeing conversations degrade like they've been. Several good suggestions were put forth and all either shot down, or didn't recieve enough support. Better builds, more creativity. If you lack a lot of creativity, then it shouldn't be up to the Elders to fix the CoCo to suit you. Maybe you aren't suited for the CoCo? -ToK
Jindl 08-04-04, 10:35 PM	Just so you know, beyond the fact that rearing a Roc as a pet doesn't reflect a campaign, I really have no problem with Spike's pet. As you mentioned, Spike spent lots of skill points, gold on a +Cha skill magic item, and two feats in order to get his HA high enough to get a Roc. That's a serious investment. So I really have no problem with him having that pet. What I do have a problem with is the animated dead. What exactly did the harvesters have to spend to get their uber mounts? What did Bruno have to spend to get a uber giant skeletons? It didn't cost them feats or skills or magic items. It only cost them 25 gp per HD of the undead. When I refer to unbalanced allies, the first thing I think of is the animated dead. They are the cheapest allies to acquire, costing the gladiator nothing more than a few hundred gp. HA allies and Cohorts are expensive enough, costing lots of skill points and/or feats. And class feature allies are by far the most expensive, since you must invest levels in the class to gain the ally. So, to reiterate, Spike's Roc cost him plenty and I have no issue with it. Undead allies are too powerful and too easy to acquire. -Jindl
Jindl 08-04-04, 10:37 PM	@All the New People - So, I was wondering, where/how did you find out about the CoCo. Was it on the CO boards? Or was it elsewhere (the RA boards, the Tarsian arena, etc)? The boards we as players come from has a big impact on how we view the CoCo. As MB and I were saying, those of us from a Character Optimization background have a very different viewpoint on how the CoCo should be compared to someone like Caterane who cares more about this being its own game - which should be balanced for more fun. -Jindl
MotherBast 08-04-04, 10:40 PM	I'll second that ToK. with the possible exception of allies, I know Brackin (the highest level pure melee build in the CoCo) is perfectly ok with the Arena as is at the moment.
Jindl 08-04-04, 10:47 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril There have been many, many ideas proposed here over the last few days. I have also seen complaints that people talk a lot here, but nothing ever gets done. This is my proposal to help get things done faster. We'll compare it to an actual legislative body. Here are the proposed steps for having your idea become law. 1. Propose your idea. For example, Tellish proposes random starting positions. 2. Two people (could be more or less) formally agree with your idea. You would not just say "that sounds good," but you would formally give a second, then a third vote to that idea. Continuing the example, Jindl might second the idea, and MotherBast's vote makes it a third. 3. If two people have agreed with your idea, start a new thread. In the thread, we can spend one week (could be more or less) in debate. Here, everyone can discuss the idea (or, since some insist on flaming, flame away in that thread). 4. If, during the debate, six people (could be more or less) agree that the idea is sound, it will go for a vote in the Council of Elders (Senate). This would, again, be formal endorsement of the idea, so whoever posts doesn't just say "that sounds fun," but formally votes for the idea. This helps weed out ideas that don't have much support, but also presents the Council of Elders with the ideas that have the most support (rather than being someone's pet issue). 5. It goes to the Council of Elders. If it passes there, it is law. There are three reasons this would be good: (1) less confusion here as multiple ideas are proposed, (2) everyone can have a voice, even if only a few make the final vote, and (3) things will actually get done. @Ethendril - This is a good suggestion for how the process should go. But I think everyone needs to understand something, so I'm going to put it bluntly. Your #5 has to change. It should read: 5. It goes to the Council of Elders. If it passes there, then it is recommended to the GM's for final approval. The Elders will not have final approval authority on anything. But we as GM's will give a great deal of weight to the recommendations of the Elder's when making a final decision. Consider the Elder's to be something like the advisors to the GM's. I think the Elders is an important component of the CoCo. I will certainly look forward to their recommendations on things. But I wanted to make it clear that the Elder's do not have final say in a matter. It will be the GM's that have final authority. {This message was sponsored by WizO_Shadow} ;) -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-04, 10:51 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Just so you know, beyond the fact that rearing a Roc as a pet doesn't reflect a campaign, I really have no problem with Spike's pet. As you mentioned, Spike spent lots of skill points, gold on a +Cha skill magic item, and two feats in order to get his HA high enough to get a Roc. That's a serious investment. So I really have no problem with him having that pet. What I do have a problem with is the animated dead. What exactly did the harvesters have to spend to get their uber mounts? What did Bruno have to spend to get a uber giant skeletons? It didn't cost them feats or skills or magic items. It only cost them 25 gp per HD of the undead. When I refer to unbalanced allies, the first thing I think of is the animated dead. They are the cheapest allies to acquire, costing the gladiator nothing more than a few hundred gp. HA allies and Cohorts are expensive enough, costing lots of skill points and/or feats. And class feature allies are by far the most expensive, since you must invest levels in the class to gain the ally. So, to reiterate, Spike's Roc cost him plenty and I have no issue with it. Undead allies are too powerful and too easy to acquire. -Jindl Can i get an AMEN! Yes. No doubt i have a great deal of trouble accepting the animated dead. For those who don't know my stance, and are running 13's who fight with them, please follow my link from the FAQ where it lists handle undead as allies. It's cumbersome to do. Cat likes to think he can fly around with it, and it thinks on its own. It doesn't. If you ready my last fight, since Cat didn't "program" Nightingale and didn't have actions to command it, it was a lump on the log and not the raging, uber undead that he would like to have it been. I keep doing this everytime, but still i get flack and no commands to the undead are given. We've butted heads on this particular issue more than once. Undead allies are way way powerful. Ok, so we have several issues on the table. 0. more obstacles 1. central obstacle removal 2. random starting positions 3. undead allies (capping? more cost?) 4. lowered ceiling 5. heightened ceiling 6. xp=gold=bad Ethendril had a great suggestion which Jindl re-iterated. Can we try to break these down and deal them and set them aside. Too much is flying by and hard to keep track of all the yelling and opinions and such. Just please calmly state a legit claim and address the 6 points in one post. Each person in turn (or at least try to) and then there will be summaries and we can in turn vote on suggestions that seem fitting. I need to know WHY you would do something to alter that particular environment showing cause and effect. Clearly state your proposal and a why as well. -ToK
Caterane 08-04-04, 11:05 PM	Jindl, you keep ignoring my questions. You are the main supporter of having an authentitive CoCo like in a campaign while I think we should forget the campaign thing and focus to create a balanced CoCo. If you want to be a representative of your campaign idea then you have to face my questions. Here's what I am saying: You mentioned some examples, but you didn't list the disadvantages of reflecting a campaign. Does your campaign wizard memorize only combat spells? Does your campaign spellcaster memorize anew after every fight? Does he fight 1 on 1? We would need random maps (dungeon, plains, city, etc), random starting positions, spellcasters can't memorize anew for some fights, you can't buy but find items randomly, and so on and so on. This will never work. Undead allies: CR-4 cap so that this topic is from the table. Harvester 3 will hate it though :D @Tok: Jindl replied on the Comments thread that we discussed and agreed upon it long ago. Perhaps you might check it out. It's a free action to command undead. No programing.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-04, 11:24 PM	Here is my own reply to the 7 issues being discussed. 0. more obstacles No Nothing shows that this would improve the CoCo or modify tactics to any extent. Sneaky types can already move 30' to their next piece of cover, why would adding more cover assist them be sneakier? 1. central obstacle removal Yes The central obstacle has not shown to affect the initiative of fights. In fact win-init/kills were never proven to be the result of the lack of obstruction. Nothing in this department has changed. All the obstacle does is give a free buff round for the wizard. Those with mobility and the abilty to win-init/kill suffer no impediments as a result. Down with the obstacles in the center. 2. random starting positions No Why would it really matter? You begin diametrically opposed to the gladiator to block line of sight in round 1. Starting the fight angled off the center makes not difference if you still know your opponent is similarly angled opposite you. 3. undead allies (capping? more cost?) Yes/Yes Too easy to aquire, to cheap to create, too powerful and abusive. This one needs fast attention now that the 13's are making a race for 20th. I feel they need both a greater cap and greater cost. Either that or the total elimination of the animate dead. 4. lowered ceiling/ 5. heightened ceiling No/No Ceiling height is just fine. No fight has been decided because of this. Lowering the ceiling hampers flying builds and heightening the ceiling more favors them greater. It's balanced where it is. 6. xp=gold=bad evil necessity The red says it all. There really isn't a way to simulate crafting in the arena. It is just assumed that the caster in question has enough "extra" xp to craft what he needs. @Cat/Jindl: Can you show me where it says it is? I don't remember the conversation where you both said it's a free action. From what i read in the PHB page. 159 "Commanded: A commanded undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead." That's all i read about it and found reference to commanded undead. If you can show me where it says it's a free action i'm cool with that, but from what i read, it's a standard action. -ToK
Ender the Xenocide 08-04-04, 11:36 PM	@Jindl I found these boards from the CO thread. I came here not only because I want to test builds for a real campaign, but also because I enjoy it as a game. So I'm kind of in the middle on what I think should happen. As for ideas, maybe we could have divisions, with caster vs caster, fighter vs fighter, fighter vs caster, and open class. At the begining of each week you would post where you want your character to be placed in, and the rest is done as it is now. 0. more obstacles - I think there is enough now. 1. central obstacle removal - I'm not sure about this one, since I haven't participated yet. 2. random starting positions - This one sounds good, because in a campaign you don't always know where the enemy is coming from, and looking at this as a game, it seems that could balance thing out too. 3. undead allies (capping? more cost?) - I don't see a problem with this, since you have to fight it to get it first, unlike a cohort or companion. 4. lowered ceiling - I haven't played, so I can't make an accurate decision on this one. 5. heightened ceiling - Same here. 6. xp=gold=bad - I like this one. I noticed alot of people seem pretty set in thier decisions, and I for one would like to see people being more open minded. If the two opposing factions (campaign vs game) cannot find comprimise, then perhaps a second CoCo should be created.
LLMadCow 08-05-04, 12:08 AM	Originally posted by Jindl Read what I am saying. This is really exciting. I am on the edge of my seat here..... Originally posted by Jindl We want a nuetral environment that approximates a campaign. :OMG! This is so what I wanted to hear! So, when do we do away with the 1xp = 5gp aspect of crafting? Note: This post is not meant to be insulting or demeaning, but to bring up the fact that paying gold in exchange for XP is an unbalancing factor of the CoCo. There is much more than this and I will be considering my whole opinion to be posted soon. I hope that people understand my sarcasm that I occassionally post, such as my most recent character idea...
Market_Share 08-05-04, 12:34 AM	Well, while you guys enjoy your holidays there's no such thing for me here. As a result, can someone take this fight off my hands. Cyric Tor (KerlanRayne) vs Ildechai Hazeweaver (Ashenai): Market Share Plus i really don't know anything about psionics. First person to reply and i will forward the tactics to. @cat/jindl/tok: that means i'll lose a credit. 0. more obstacles 1. central obstacle removal 2. random starting positions 3. undead allies (capping? more cost?) 4. lowered ceiling 5. heightened ceiling 6. xp=gold=bad 0=no, 1=yes, 2=yes, 3=yes/yes, 4=no, 5=no, 6= ?!? no clue man. Anyhow those are my quick votes. Off to the sack. SPIKE!
roll8dn 08-05-04, 12:39 AM	I have a question: In order to become a gladiator, all I have to do is create a 2nd level character (using core rules) and then post it to the list of Gladiators? If not, what do I need to do?
Caterane 08-05-04, 01:00 AM	@Tok: Random starting positions doesn't mean that you necessarily start diametrically on the opposite. Gladiator1 could start at A (west) and the other guy starts at C (north). You have no idea and have to guess where he is. This prevents 1st round kills. If someone still tries there's a 66% miss chance. More obstacles: Yes. This gives everyone more tactical options and provides us with more entertaining fights. And of course, it limits spellcaster power since they can't just cast from the other side but have to close in sometimes. Good balancing factor!! No disadvantages! Central obstacle removal: No! Definately no. This brings us back to the win ini + medium range spell, or even enlarged short range spell, or quicken spectral hand + touch spell. Heck, that allows virtually every spell to be cast on round 1! This is a bad bad thing. The Central Obstacle DID prevent a lot! Random starting positions: Yes! This adds more randomness to the fights and prevents even phantomsteeders to make a 1st round kill. It will take away from programmed win ini tactics since you can't exactly tell where the enemy is. It even reflects a campaign for those who care. Undead allies (capping? more cost?) Capping yes, improved cost: no. Capping is here to balance the arena and prevent Storm Giants and Cauchemars at medium levels. Increasing the cost however is not core since raising undead is exactly printed in the PHB. Anyone who proposes this is straying away from Core. Lowered ceiling: Yes. To 100ft. Flyers have still enough room to maneuver but it brings the combatants closer together. Heightened ceiling: No. Xp=gold=bad: We can't simulate Xp and level losses. Too complicated. The current system is easier.
Druid Roxors 08-05-04, 03:05 AM	Originally posted by Caterane More obstacles: Yes. This gives everyone more tactical options and provides us with more entertaining fights. And of course, it limits spellcaster power since they can't just cast from the other side but have to close in sometimes. Good balancing factor!! No disadvantages! Great! Nerf Chargers and archers even more! Central obstacle removal: No! Definately no. This brings us back to the win ini + medium range spell, or even enlarged short range spell, or quicken spectral hand + touch spell. Heck, that allows virtually every spell to be cast on round 1! This is a bad bad thing. The Central Obstacle DID prevent a lot! Any caster can buy a steed and just shoot from it. Any medium range spell can already be cast on round 1, even some short range spells with phantom steed. Random starting positions: Yes! This adds more randomness to the fights and prevents even phantomsteeders to make a 1st round kill. It will take away from programmed win ini tactics since you can't exactly tell where the enemy is. It even reflects a campaign for those who care. As long as the enemy's location is kept secret. But remember silenced casters could use your "Cover Walls" to buff up. Why not even consider my Fog Idea? Undead allies (capping? more cost?) Capping yes, improved cost: no. Capping is here to balance the arena and prevent Storm Giants and Cauchemars at medium levels. Increasing the cost however is not core since raising undead is exactly printed in the PHB. Anyone who proposes this is straying away from Core.If undead allies are to remain not-ressurected, I agree. Should they be automatically ressurected (not core) they should have a cost increase (not core) Lowered ceiling: Yes. To 100ft. Flyers have still enough room to maneuver but it brings the combatants closer together. Heightened ceiling: No. Yes, perhaps as an official map for players level 2-10 Xp=gold=bad: We can't simulate Xp and level losses. Too complicated. The current system is easier. I agree, If anything, the cost could be raised.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 08-05-04, 06:19 AM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Well, I just voice out that I am back and ready to participate in the CoCo (I got delaying in the army and this whole last month has passed when I moved whit my mom). I want to pitlord again, and to notify the people that I do not have my books and dices, so everything happens via net (SDR helps alot to pitlord work). My char stays as inactive still (I truly need 24 credits before I can play whit him again ;)). I just wondered what heck discussion there has been and readed this page and the last page (sorry if I offend someone or repeat something already said :rolleyes:). You speak ill-balance of arena that it favours too much casters and you try make figthers more casters or bug casters down. There has been also discussion about the central pillar being useless because of some spell. So long there is mages and vast amount of spells and creative imagination, mages can pass ANY rules et to them and be always powerfull (and invisible in higher levels). So let's make simple rule; NO FIGTHER/WARRIOR VS CASTER/PSION MATCHES! I know that this does not test figther's (and other melee chars) potential vs casters, but we have already got dozen of proofs that rarely melee char beats a mage! There is reason why figthers and warriors are afraid of magic users and reason why there is one bad guy wiz vs whole party! If there are more wiz's, then party kills every wiz one by one or finds a way to disable their magics for one round! Think about real life gladiator games; in those matches beef muscled and hearty warriors bang each other whit weapons and try break someone's armor while winning crowds favour! In games casters figth against casters because it is far more exciting to the crowd than just flying mage wich bombards single warrior into skimmer cheese! If somebody says archery, then think this; mage can become invisible! Plus it can negate arrows by protective spells while they boost themselves as invisible and then bombard the figther wich effortlesly tries hit boosted mage wich negate missiles 19 from 20 of the time. So, I propose that figthers figth against figthers, caster vs casters (psionics should be thinked little, examply psycic warrior vs normal figther can end quite quickly). Of course this limits multiclassing, so I propose that there is third match type where multiclassed casters figths against other kinds of mutliclassed casters. If we do so, then the pure structure of each type is tested truly and seen wich structure in each type is strongest! The best warrior! The best caster! The best Jack-Of-All-Trades! Then battles will become more tactical and figthers, casters etc will get chance to test their mettle agaisnt the most difficult foe, foe wich uses same means like him! Think that how much this affects for the preparation of the match? Casters focus to learn and memorize spells how to protect against magic or counter it or dispell it (and add few protection spells vs rays, missile fire or melee from more martial focused wizard). Then figthers will focus how to disarm/break his foes weapon and some then study to figth unarmed in case weapon is losted or learn to escape bear hug strong grapple! If you think about caster consorts whit figthers, then consorts are illegal if other does not have consort or any hired blades/sorcery to aid him. But a martial consort is legal fully and if one figther figths against two foes, he shall get more money from the match if wins. One use magic to figthers then is also legal, if it is accesible to all figthers, it is legal to get magicall items (like wands examply). Of course if you want to test occasionally wiz vs figther build, then it should happen rarely and by request of both parties (not as automatic drawing). I know this changes most basic of CoCo tradition, but sake for ending the arguement/pickering of imbalance and unfairness towards figthers this is my suggestion for it. :rolleyes: . No one did not reply nothing regarding my idea (was it good/bad at all?).
Myrridin 08-05-04, 08:50 AM	Originally posted by roll8dn I have a question: In order to become a gladiator, all I have to do is create a 2nd level character (using core rules) and then post it to the list of Gladiators? If not, what do I need to do? That is correct. If you go to the Gladiators thread, there's a common character sheet that we try to use, so it's easier for your pitlord to read it and find where everything is. Go ahead and post a character, and then check the violations thread a few hours after you've done so, to make sure everything's fine with it. Welcome to the arena. :)
Ashenai 08-05-04, 10:53 AM	@LLMadCow: I'm not sure what your hypothetical "XP broker" class is meant to prove. To me, it shows (well, maybe) that selling an XP point for 5 GP is broken. However, we don't do that in the CoCo. We (well, casters) buy an XP point for 5 GP, which is not the same thing at all. @Kazzaroth Pan'theon: I don't think that's a good idea at all. It would cut down drastically on the variety of fights, and I think everyone would like more variety, not less. @Druid Roxors: I don't think the fog idea would work as intended. It would provide a huge advantage to people who can put up Quickened Clairvoyances and similar effects... in other words, high-level casters. [LIST=1] More obstacles: YES. This would nerf chargers and archers, which is unfortunate. However, it would make it easier on "sneaky" characters and most melee types, which I feel is more than enough of a counterbalance. Also, it would make life slightly more difficult for Huge+ creatures, which is probably also desirable. Central obstacle removal: NO. I would like to see turn 1 kills be very difficult. While the central obstacle demonstrably does not make them difficult enough by itself, it is a necessary part. Random starting positions: YES/LATER. I'm in favour (heck, I suggested it), but Cat's version has problems. For one, it makes the central obstacle ineffective in 2/3 of the fights. Secondly, it stops first turn kills exactly until Level 14, when mages get flying 240' speed Phantom Steeds. Has anyone considered what that will be like? I have, and it's not going to be pretty, unless we do something about it. So I'd be in favour of a more refined version, with more than 3 possible starting positions for each gladiator. However, giving a precise suggestion is useless until we determine whether and how the arena is going to change. For this reason, I propose deciding on the other suggestions first, waiting at least a week, then deciding on the random starting positions. Undead allies (capping? more cost?): Capping YES, more cost NO. Increasing the cost would be a direct contradiction of Core Rules, and I'd rather we didn't go down that road except when absolutely necessary. Capping, however, would not only do wonders for balance, but would also help eliminate monster fights, which always seemed like a waste to me, and something we'd be better off without. Lowered ceiling: YES, ideally to 45'. (40' max. elevation for a Medium creature.) This would still make flying advantageous, but not horrifically so. And it would be possible (though difficult) to make melee builds that could threaten flyers without being able to fly themselves. It would also mean that the character with no flying but the faster movement rate could do more to control the range of battle, instead of watching helplessly as the druid or mage flies up into medium range. Heightened ceiling: NO. I cannot think of a single positive thing this would accomplish. Separate XP and gold: NO/MAYBE. I have seen two systems proposed as to how this should be done (one of them mine), and I don't like either one of them at all. If someone can come up with a good way to do this, I'm all ears; I have thought about this for a while, and I am now convinced that there is no sane way to do it. If someone can come up with a solution that is fairly simple, Core, and not completely ridiculous, then I'd be all for it. [/list=1]
LLMadCow 08-05-04, 11:16 AM	Gold vs XP @ALL - My apologies. I sat down and did a bunch of math, and the conclusion I came to was this: If a spellcaster spent 100% of his wealth crafting magical items, then he would forever be 1/2 of a level behind. If someone would take a moment to verify my math.... Level 13 Gold [(110,000gp / 7) x 2] / 5 = 6285xp So, with that being said, I officially rescind my previous complaint about the GP vs XP debate. I hope that others understand this as well and let it go. I feel kind of bad, so ... just take note that I actualy posted the full info in an attempt to clear this issue up.
Caterane 08-05-04, 11:16 AM	@Druid: 1. "Great! Nerf Chargers and archers even more!" - We have 1 charger (Harvester 1) and no archer and anyway: this is minor compared to the problem of Caster fireing from long range. That's where we should focus upon! 2. "Any caster can buy a steed and just shoot from it. Any medium range spell can already be cast on round 1, even some short range spells with phantom steed." - And you conclude that this is the fault of the central pillar? My conclusion is that the central pillar is not enough. And a wizard with a light warhorse is a wizard with an undead/familiar/leadership ally less. 3. "As long as the enemy's location is kept secret. But remember silenced casters could use your "Cover Walls" to buff up. Why not even consider my Fog Idea?" - Yes, they are secret; that's the whole point in it. Fog is not as good as actual cover. Mages can still cast area spells in and through it while fighter can't mimic this. And as Ashenai said: clairvoyance and other locate spells (spellcasters only) can circumvent it. Why fog when a wall does the same and more? 4. "If undead allies are to remain not-ressurected, I agree. Should they be automatically ressurected (not core) they should have a cost increase (not core)" They've never been ressurected for free and never will. I don't care about the ressurection of undead and handled animals but BOUGHT animals must be ressurected in order to make them attractive. Who'd buy a pseudodragon for 30k when it can die??? @Ashenai: :thumbsup: I am absolutely astonished about your insight into the CoCo rules and its effects. @Kazzaroth: Welcome back!! But your suggestion would spread the ranks thin, something we can't do. @Tok/Jindl: I've added the a Current Arena Champion Tag behind the Harvester 2. We had that in the past and it would be cool to have again. I realize that it depends to the pitlord's time of posting to some extend but we can also use the best win/loss record of the highest level gladiator instead (which is also Harvester 2). Any objections?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-05-04, 11:27 AM	I'd do it Mike, but i really don't have time as well. Can anyone else take another fight this week? Originally posted by Market_Share Well, while you guys enjoy your holidays there's no such thing for me here. As a result, can someone take this fight off my hands. Cyric Tor (KerlanRayne) vs Ildechai Hazeweaver (Ashenai): Market Share Plus i really don't know anything about psionics. First person to reply and i will forward the tactics to. @cat/jindl/tok: that means i'll lose a credit. SPIKE!
LLMadCow 08-05-04, 11:43 AM	More obstacles: Yes. Perhaps some 'Broken Walls' or some long walls, 10' tall, with or without some way to stand on top of. Central obstacle removal: No. Too many 1st turn kills before the obstacle. Random starting positions: Maybe. I say yes, only if we add some walls throughout. This way there still isn't line of sight and the characters have to locate their foe. Undead allies (capping? more cost?) Yes & No; capping good, cost change bad. I don't want to see the somehow affordable Undead Terrasque! Lowered ceiling: Yes. 100'? 40'? Somewhere in between. I would like to see some creative charges use the Feat Up The Walls and the Power Psionic Lion's Charge to pounce from a column. At 100' this would have to be some awesome speed to pull off, but it is possible. Maybe something like 65' - 2 rounds for a medium creature to reach the ceiling? Heightened ceiling: No. Are we trying to give flyers more power? 'HAHAHAHA! Weakling fighter! Now you have range penalties to attack me!' Xp=gold=bad: Nope. Please see my above post. Short reply - even if they spent 100% of their gold crafting, they would never be more than 1/2 level behind.
Ethendril 08-05-04, 11:49 AM	Originally posted by Jindl @Ethendril - This is a good suggestion for how the process should go. But I think everyone needs to understand something, so I'm going to put it bluntly. Your #5 has to change. It should read: 5. It goes to the Council of Elders. If it passes there, then it is recommended to the GM's for final approval. The Elders will not have final approval authority on anything. But we as GM's will give a great deal of weight to the recommendations of the Elder's when making a final decision. Consider the Elder's to be something like the advisors to the GM's. I think the Elders is an important component of the CoCo. I will certainly look forward to their recommendations on things. But I wanted to make it clear that the Elder's do not have final say in a matter. It will be the GM's that have final authority. {This message was sponsored by WizO_Shadow} ;) -Jindl @Jindl: Your idea sounds great, and I wasn't trying to overstep any bounds...just trying to create order out of absolute chaos. However, I would respectfully suggest that instead of going to a final vote before the GM's, that the GM's simply retain a veto as the exectutive body. This eliminates the need for yet another step in the process, but also allows the GM's to retain the power to stop something that would be bad for COCO. Step 5 should state: 5. It goes to the Council of Elders. If it passes there, then it is law (GM's retain the right to veto). Anyway, I think this idea would solve the problem of countless ideas suggested, with no ideas implemented.
Battousai2005 08-05-04, 01:34 PM	Wheee. its been a while. Ok, down to buisness 1) What's our policy if no tactics are recieved on either side? 2) When are fights due for this round?!?!? I've been looking and can't find it!!!
Druid Roxors 08-05-04, 01:36 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Druid: - We have 1 charger (Harvester 1) and no archer and anyway: this is minor compared to the problem of Caster fireing from long range. That's where we should focus upon!I believe that the effect this will have on melee characters will be far grater. Due to the fact that most spells ignore Cover. - And you conclude that this is the fault of the central pillar? My conclusion is that the central pillar is not enough. And a wizard with a light warhorse is a wizard with an undead/familiar/leadership ally less. No, I just conclude that it hinders meleers who cannot gain access to Mr phantomsteed or Long range "spells" - Yes, they are secret; that's the whole point in it. Fog is not as good as actual cover. Mages can still cast area spells in and through it while fighter can't mimic this. And as Ashenai said: clairvoyance and other locate spells (spellcasters only) can circumvent it. Why fog when a wall does the same and more?Well, you do realize that if you have a wall and use Clairvoyance you can still shoot a fireball/flamestrike in such a way that it will ignore cover? If there is a way out of the walled area there is a way in for the spells. It is accually the same thing, with the exception that once it serves its purpose (1st round kills) it dissappears.
Jindl 08-05-04, 01:43 PM	I don't know where Cat gets his numbers, but we have multiple chargers and archers. Skymoon Moonbow Paul Hector Aemon Enilias Jagath Kage etc. Archery and Charging are the best tools that a non-caster has against a spellcaster, with Stealth a close third. That's why Tellish and I are for eliminating the large central obstacle. It prevents fighters from readying arrows against the spellcasters. It does not prevent the spellcasters from moving and casting (after buffing safely behind the obstacle). -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 08-05-04, 02:50 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Wheee. its been a while. Ok, down to buisness 1) What's our policy if no tactics are recieved on either side? 2) When are fights due for this round?!?!? I've been looking and can't find it!!! 1. You run the fight with default tacitcs if the gladiator has any written on his/her character sheet. If not, then you have three options. The one that does, wins vs the one that doesn't. Just flat out does. Option two, the most prefered option, is to have both gladiators fight based on absolute simple tacitcs and combat as you see fit to at least give a show. Option 3, in this rare case, you can declare them BOTH to be in default, and both gladiators go back into the pool. There are examples of one side writing tactics and the other not, and being declared in default, but never have BOTH sides not written tactics. You are in unchartered territory there Bat. Just use your judgment, do what you think is right. 2. Fights this round are due SUNDAY 8th!!!! -ToK
Ender the Xenocide 08-05-04, 03:47 PM	So I won't be in a match untill next week? I thought gladiators were paired by wednesday night...
Ethendril 08-05-04, 03:55 PM	Originally posted by Ender the Xenocide So I won't be in a match untill next week? I thought gladiators were paired by wednesday night... This is true 99% of the time. However, with the planned Wizard's board maintenance (which we thought would occur this week), we gave two weeks for the fights. Pairings will not be until next Wednesday.
Caterane 08-05-04, 06:07 PM	Jindl: [Central pillar] ...prevents fighters from readying arrows against the spellcasters. It does not prevent the spellcasters from moving and casting Ready action? Against what? 8 mirror images? Wind wall? And these are only the lowlevel spells. On top of that most concentration checks are made anyway, even with an arrow. And why can a spellcaster move and attack while an archer can't? Sorry, I don't get that whole statement. If we remove the Central Pillar we'll have the win ini win fight scenario back. If the wizard wins, the fight is over. If the fighter wins, the impact on the fight is minor because the wiz might complete his spell anyway and these 10 damage won't hurt him badly. The solution is to install 4 secret starting positions with a small wall infront. That way no one knows where the other one is. This has no impact on chargers or archers but prevents this win ini scenario. Add some other central obstacles and you force the mages to close in instead of fireing long range from atop. Removing the Central pillar is definately the wrong way to go! We'd do a big mistake! Edit: Jindl, I've asked you now about 5 or more times to answer my questions about the Campaign CoCo vs Balance CoCo, but you keep ignoring it. Asides from this being not a good cooperation in finding a common ground it also confirms my suspicion that you don't have an answer anyway which in turn confirms that your Campaign-related idea of a CoCo that ignores balance will not work!
Druid Roxors 08-05-04, 06:20 PM	Cat: A wall promotes Silent Buffing. That is not what fighters needs! REMEMBER SPELLS CAN GO THOUGH WALLS! There is nothing a fighter can do that will do the same thing! A wall is certainly an advantage to the MAGE. Not to mention that Fighters with Large/Huge/Gargantuan allies will have either Huge walls or will just not work. Think about it... ooXXXoo ooXXXoo . ooXXXoo . o_____o . . . . ooooooooooo |oooooooooo |X--->Xooooo |oooooooooo |oooooooooo Hide if you can, LOL
MotherBast 08-05-04, 06:30 PM	I have posted a new character. Bro Ken the Animal Trainer is ready for 8/11, and his first fight will be a monster fight vs. a Dire Lion. I belive, with careful planning, I can become the unscathed winner without my gladiator ever doing a single point of damage to his opponits, but allowing his allies to do it for him. I figure since were not nurffing HA, I'm gona jump on the bandwaggon and make a pure animal handler. Are monster fights still concidered like 2 active gladiators?
Caterane 08-05-04, 06:34 PM	Druid, the walls' main purpose is to hide the starting positions not to prevent spells :)
Ashenai 08-05-04, 06:34 PM	REMEMBER SPELLS CAN GO THOUGH WALLS! No, they can't. Some spells can go around walls. This is not a nitpick, it's a hugely important difference.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-05-04, 06:45 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast I have posted a new character. Bro Ken the Animal Trainer is ready for 8/11, and his first fight will be a monster fight vs. a Dire Lion. I belive, with careful planning, I can become the unscathed winner without my gladiator ever doing a single point of damage to his opponits, but allowing his allies to do it for him. I figure since were not nurffing HA, I'm gona jump on the bandwaggon and make a pure animal handler. Are monster fights still concidered like 2 active gladiators? Looks like someone else beat you to this MB. El_Jaguaro is fighting a Polar Bear. Debatable which is more powerful, but looks like you two are on the same track. lol Maybe you'll have to compete against each other preventing someone from the unscathed winner title. lol -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-05-04, 06:45 PM	Originally posted by Ashenai No, they can't. Some spells can go around walls. This is not a nitpick, it's a hugely important difference. I mean that if this change is supposed to help fighters, it is hurting them. Even though only "SOME" spells can go through walls, NONE of the fighter's abilities can! This is not fair.
Jindl 08-05-04, 06:57 PM	@Caterane - Without an obstacle, all the archer has to do is ready his first round. Most archers have excellent dex = a good initiative mod. Here's how it goes: Archer wins initiative, moves closer and a little to the side, readies an arrow to disrupt spellcasting. Wizard goes, has nowhere to hide, tries to cast a buff, gets shot by the archer, loses spell. With the large central obstacle, the archer has to have a mount capable of moving very fast in order to move + ready an arrow to disrupt the wizard before the wizard starts buffing. Disrupting gets much tougher after the wizard gets a free round to buff behind the total cover of the central obstacle. I'm surprised I need to explain this to you. You really should read more of Kage's and Oetzi's anti spellcaster fights. I'm not sure what your specific questions were. The only one I could find was "Spellcasting services: What do you suggest?", which I answered by saying "Only allow equipment type prebuffs from NPC's." I'll be happy to respond to other questions; what were they? -Jindl
Caterane 08-05-04, 06:59 PM	@MB: Character added. Once you'll reach higher levels you'll realize that your nice animal is dead in no time by fire, or ice, or lightning, or instant death, or willsave failed, or... PLEASE play this character to the top, please please please and I will savor in your loss record vs mages, clerics, and druids, and everytime you'll spend 2 credits to get a new animal to replace the just deceased one Muahahahaha Yes, please play Brok Ken to FEEL the brokeness of CASTERS on your own hide... @Druid: Fog, wall, at least better than removing the central pillar. @MAGAGUMO: TACTICS!!! @Snark: Can you inform him that he forgot something? Edit: Jindl, And I don't have to remind you about the fact that a wizard (only one prime stat = enough points for high dex) can virtually cast ANY spell if he wins ini. Medium and long range without modification, short ranges enlarged and a quickened spectral hand for touch spells. What about this scenario: Wizard wins ini, casts spell vs lowest save. Fight over. or Archer wins ini, readies vs spellcasting. Wizard casts (behind cover), archer shoots, hits (perhaps) and deals - how much? - 10 damage? 15 damage? Wizard concentration check passes, spell goes off, Archer dead. It is unlikely that the wizard fails his concentration check. One simple windwall and the archer is defeated while the wizard casts spells from long range. With obstacles the wizard cannot stay behind the windwall forever since there's a central obstacle that prevents it.
Caterane 08-05-04, 07:15 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Jindl: I am just saying that imbalance and optimization are two different shoes. The former one is the enviroment in the CoCo which has little to do with being Core. The latter one is what you make out of your character given the enviroment. Both are possible and this is what I want to create - a balanced enviroment where every class has equal chances and everyone can maximize. If you - after that balance step - create a killer character I pad you on the shoulder and congratulate you for your build. However, as it is now I don't consider it a great feat when Professor Dre stomps over Angosh or Jindl eats Kage. The most important point where we clash together all the time is this balance CoCo vs reflect campaign. I don't think we should try to reflect a campaign in any case because we can never copy this. We would need random maps (dungeon, plains, city, etc), random starting positions, spellcasters can't memorize anew for some fights, you can't buy but find items randomly, and so on and so on. This will never work. Instead we should focus to create a fair ARENA where gladiatorial matches are fought, and which is considered an arena and not some abstract version of an adventuring party. You mentioned some examples, but you didn't list everything which reflects a campaign. Does your campaign wizard memorize only combat spells? Does your campaign spellcaster memorize anew after every fight? Does he fight 1 on 1? Can he always choose which items he wants to have? No, no, no, and no. If you want to go campaign - and you're making no effort to hide this - then bring in the disadvantages aswell. As it is now, it is in no way a campaign. But as I said, we should forget about this campaign idea and create a Core Coliseum
MotherBast 08-05-04, 07:17 PM	Yeah CAT, I agree. Casters will own him past level 9 or so. But, if you will remember, YOU are the one who said that handeled animals would help melees balance casters, not I. I said they wouldn't help at all vs. casters, but would domainate other melees. So, I'll play Bro Ken just long enough to become 9 and 0 or whatever, by praying on week low level mages and un-allied melees. Then I'll retire him.
Druid Roxors 08-05-04, 07:19 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Druid: Fog, wall, at least better than removing the central pillar. I belive the best way to go is Fog + 2-4 Extra Large obstacles. No Central obstacle though. With the fog + Random Starting Locations: - A Caster tries to spot/listen and fails, he must do nothing intresting. - A Rogue has time to Sneak arround and hide - A fighter Survives round 1 (Holy crap! IMBALANCE!) and readies or does whatever he wants to do.
Jindl 08-05-04, 07:24 PM	Well, I've been against advanced cover the entire time, but most archers wouldn't have any trouble hitting a wizard even with advanced cover. My question is, what kind of wussy archers are facing an 11th level wizard (you did say quickened spectral hand, right?) and can only deal 10 pts of damage? The point was, that the large obstacle only helps wizards (and other casters). It did not help non-casters at all. ******************** Depending on the group, the wizard may memorize only combat spells. He may then craft scrolls for noncombat spells. Or there may be another spellcaster in the group who covers noncombat spells. Depending on the fight, the wizard may rest and rememorize. Especially once they gain access to Teleport. Still, I think its okay that the CoCo represents the first encounter for the gladiators of that day. That just lets us compare two builds when they are both at full strength. Sometimes PC's do fight 1 on 1. Of course, I think spellcasters do better when the fights are group vs group, because then they have some allies to protect them from melee. We are trying to approximate a campaign. That means prebuffs exist as normal in a campaign. Time is given to craft things, as it would be in a campaign. Even the gold = experience ratio is as listed for a campaign. The CoCo is not a campaign. But we try to make the environment approximate one in order to test the builds. -Jindl
Caterane 08-05-04, 07:26 PM	@MB: Then there's no point in proofing anything. ElJAguaro will have a polar bear so we can always watch her, and Ixidor had a direlion. Now that he's 12th the hydra does nothing to help him win the fight. I'll take the much better leadership next level and mourn over my wasted skillpoints. Edit: Jindl Depending on the group, the wizard may memorize only combat spells. He may then craft scrolls for noncombat spells. Or there may be another spellcaster in the group who covers noncombat spells. Nah. That's a weak backdoor explanation to base your answer on a second wizard for utility spells. No way is that like in a campaign. Endure elements, knock, etc are just as often memorized as fireballs. He scribes scrolls with utility spells? That costs money. So should a wizard have less money because he scribes scrolls with utility spells? Is that what you're saying? And what about Cleric and Druids without the scribe scroll feat? Also, one should note your "Depending on..." which is exactly what I am saying: you pick the most favorable of favorable circumstances of a campaign and extrapolate it, then transfer it to the CoCo and sell it as THE representative of a campaign. Depending on the fight, the wizard may rest and rememorize. Especially once they gain access to Teleport. Still, I think its okay that the CoCo represents the first encounter for the gladiators of that day. That just lets us compare two builds when they are both at full strength. And what if he's within a dungeon? Is there only one fight a day where he can expand all his spells on without worrying about further fights? You mentioned Teleport. Does this mean that the wizard should have a 5th level spell less to reflect your campaign idea? I mean, he expanded it to teleport the party away. Also note "depending on" again Sometimes PC's do fight 1 on 1. Of course, I think spellcasters do better when the fights are group vs group, because then they have some allies to protect them from melee. What if the enemy group focuses all their firepower on your spellcaster? He's down in one round, perhaps two. I've seen this so often. Spellcasters are the first whom you take out. The CoCo is not a campaign. But we try to make the environment approximate one in order to test the builds. See, it is NOT like in a campign as it is now, not even close. And we will never be able to simulate a campaign because there are too many variables. Instead we should focus to create a balanced arena that is considered an arena.
Jindl 08-05-04, 07:29 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors I belive the best way to go is Fog + 2-4 Extra Large obstacles. No Central obstacle though. With the fog + Random Starting Locations: - A Caster tries to spot/listen and fails, he must do nothing intresting. - A Rogue has time to Sneak arround and hide - A fighter Survives round 1 (Holy crap! IMBALANCE!) and readies or does whatever he wants to do. Druid, The problem is that time favors the casters. The longer a caster has before the non-caster puts pressure on him, the more powerful the caster will be. You may think the caster will try to spot/listen and do nothing interesting, but I think the caster will instead cast mirror image or greater invisibility or polymorph or mislead or any number of other buffing spells. Spellcasters don't normally come straight at you. They like to put a few protections in place to protect themselves against the fighters. With the fog in place (or the large central obstacle) there is nothing the non-caster can do to stop the caster from buffing. -Jindl
MotherBast 08-05-04, 07:35 PM	I'm not going to attempt to prove anything CAT. My goal for this build is exactly what I stated, to become 9-0 without ever laying a finger on my opponit. I think all the evidence aginst HA has already been put on the table, but ToK's argument about a Cha Oped Animal Handler got my attention. If HA is the focus of your build, why should it be nurffed. So, he convinced me. Convinced me to the point where I decided to make my own Animal Handler and dominate the low levels. I'll retire him once he has served his purpose.
Caterane 08-05-04, 08:20 PM	@Marketshare: Send me the tactics. I've taken over your fight.
SnarkHunter 08-05-04, 08:52 PM	@Cat, Re; Mag: I recall he mentioned something about a family vacation. No doubt he did intend to send tactics at some point. Still if he didn't, le sigh. There are various ways you can handle this based on past experiances. I for one favor the, 'extrapolate tactics from previous fights' route. I've used it myself at times and it results in the fewest complaints. @debaters: I second whoever proposed random starting locations and further point to Hatzs map that utilized this very feature as support for the argument. I think it would be intriguing to explore this for mid level fights. For higher level fights another option is necessary.
Beldin 08-05-04, 10:08 PM	1. more obstacles: the obstacles only hinder archers and chargers, not ( at least not very much) spellcasters - it even provides them with cover. The sneaky builds already have enough cover to hide. so leave the obstacles as they are 2. central obstacle removal/3. random starting positions: there has to be annother solution, the obstacle prevents especially mages from winning a low level fight via a higher level scroll (Varkalikax or Arkin prooved this often if I remember corectly) , but it gives them time to buff, too. At higher levels the mage has no problem with the obstacle, the ´charger-fighter has. Perhaps the gladiator could choose where to start between x=30 and x=20 (-30 and -20 for the other one). Perhaps already hidden at a chosen location; or at a random one. Or an early morning fog like Snark suggested months ago. Or in the first round only one single 30 feet move is allowed - or a combination of these suggestions. This would prevent a first round mage victory. But in a mage vs a fighter duel there is nothing I can see what would prevend the highly mobile mage from winning in round 2 or 3 - if he wishes *looks evil at Cat* many suggestions but no real solution here 4. Undead allies (capping? more cost?): Capping YES, more cost NO. they are too strong, so a capping makes sense. But even at level 13 a cauchemare is a very strong cheap ally. At lower levels this ally can win a fight. A higher cost is not core, but preventing a Harvester from bringing more of them into the arena is not core, too. Now think of Brackin vs Harv2k and three undead... so I think capping is good and making them pay more is ok, too. 5./6. The ceiling If we want to have the coco to reflect a "standard" core encounter then we should lower the ceiling - the name of the game is DUNGEONS and dragons, the standard dungeon is not very high I believe... But the ability to fly is a very powerful one in an outside fight - and should be powerful in the coco, too. so I suggest to leave the ceiling as it is enough for today, sorry for the bad English ;)
Ethendril 08-05-04, 10:12 PM	Perhaps the gladiator could choose where to start between x=30 and x=20 (-30 and -20 for the other one). Perhaps already hidden at a chosen location; or at a random one. I think this is a cool idea, or something similar to it. Both sides actually started hidden behind one of the two main rocks we always use for cover. Remove the central obstacle, but you wouldn't know which rock they are behind.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-05-04, 10:31 PM	@Eth+quote. I must have missed the post that you are quoting, but that is definately a better idea than random starting positions. Some modifications would need to be made to the arena. Also, i've been thinking about random starting positions and call me crazy, but what about "Random Arenas"??? Talk about a spicy encounter potential. This would lead to tactics being more general than specific and would focus more on seek and destroy rather than counting exact niches. Obviously though those kind of fights would be very tough to pitlord, especially at the higher levels, so don't hack on me for this being a dumb idea...hehe. But it would be crazy wouldn't it? I like "non-random" multiple starting positions. I could easily support that over complete random. Also, nowhere, no-how has the large central obstacle every stopped first round wins and neither wast he absence of it the contributing factor. Any archer on a friggin light horse could have easily won any of the round 1 kills. Also, and you can quote me on this one, ALL round 1 kills relied on luck. Some even on extreme luck. Removing the central pillar must be the first step. There never was a fight decided because the central pillar wasn't there or couldn't have been achieved in another way. Beldin points out Arkin's fight. Well, even with the central obstacle, all he needs is a light horse (not even war) to do the same thing. The lack of obstacle was not the contributing factor. And what 11th level archer is only going to do 10 pts of dmg anyhow? What kind of archer is he? Certainly not an optimized one, i'll tell ya that. Once the new Council of Elders is assigned they will have a busy task for sure. Removal of the central obstacle and the druid debate below. Well settle them once they are in. But it's nice to get new ideas. Keep them coming. -ToK
Caterane 08-05-04, 10:44 PM	Random Arenas!! That's exactly what I wanted to do long ago and the reason the MAPS thread has been created. We could create a couple of more maps and then use random arenas which would be fun. Central Obstacle Without the pillar this is always a win-ini win-fight scenario. The fights will all be quick and boring. You write 3 pages of tactics only to see your character dying before he even acted. Very funny. It seems no one remembered why we installed the pillar in the first place. I'd like to see this completely eliminated. Both gladiators must have a chance to react at least once. Random arenas is a great thing, random secret starting position also. This is the first thing we should focus upon: preventing win ini deciding fights.
Ashenai 08-05-04, 10:58 PM	I really like the Random Arenas idea. In theory, anyway. In practice, I'm worried that they will make it much harder for the poor pitlords, especially with some of the fancier arenas that I've seen... I can just see myself desperately trying to figure out the Move Silently mod for someone falling 20' off a rope bridge into a moat. :) But yeah, it's definitely worth a try. Perhaps it could be not _totally_ random, though? How about this: every player gets one or more vetoes (never more than half the available arenas -1, rounded up). They both send in their tactics, along with one or more arenas that they want to veto. The pitlord then selects randomly from among the remaining arenas. I think this would be really cool, because then you could always be sure that you won't get the single arena that just completely hoses your character concept. We could then have arenas with and without central pillars, etc, and everyone could veto the one (or ones) they didn't like for their own fights. No more of this particular wretched argument. Each arena could then also have a number of random starting positions for each character. (I like the freely selectable starting positions idea as well, but it's not practical if you don't know which arena you'll be fighting in). This way, everyone gets their way! You think mages are overpowered without a central pillar? Veto! You don't want to fight in the "Misty Vale" arena? No problem, veto it. You think that one particular arena with lots of cover and foliage and things would just completely hose your poor Direbat? Veto the sucker! You still won't have anything close to complete control over your environment, but you can make sure that your opponent doesn't, either. Bliss. :cool:
Aramil Dunskar 08-05-04, 11:06 PM	@Anyone: How much would it cost for a character to get a greater magic fang (+5) casted permanently on him? -AD (P.S. Could you aslo explain to me how permanency works in the arena?)
Ashenai 08-05-04, 11:14 PM	Well, Greater Magic Fang is a level 3 spell. According to the "Spellcasting and Services" table, a level 3 spell cast by a level 20 spellcaster costs 30*20 = 600 gp. Next you'll want to get it Permanencied (5th level spell) by a level 9 spellcaster. Again, according to the table, that's 50*9 = 450 gp. Finally, Permanency has an XP cost, which in the case of GMF is 1500 XP, and you have to pay it. In the CoCo, 1 XP = 5 GP, so 1500 XP = 7500 GP. Total: 8550 gp.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-05-04, 11:27 PM	Originally posted by Ashenai Well, Greater Magic Fang is a level 3 spell. According to the "Spellcasting and Services" table, a level 3 spell cast by a level 20 spellcaster costs 30*20 = 600 gp. Next you'll want to get it Permanencied (5th level spell) by a level 9 spellcaster. Again, according to the table, that's 50*9 = 450 gp. Finally, Permanency has an XP cost, which in the case of GMF is 1500 XP, and you have to pay it. In the CoCo, 1 XP = 5 GP, so 1500 XP = 7500 GP. Total: 8550 gp. You could still end up with the permanency dispelled no? So make it a 20th level caster on the permanency and increaset he cost a bit for more serurity that it isn't going anyhwere. 50*20=1000gp Maybe we can take a look at random arena's once we have the first few issues worked out and take a serious look at the arena's in the arena thread. -ToK
SnarkHunter 08-05-04, 11:49 PM	I think people were more intrested in random starting locations then arenas. Easier to apply as well.
Caterane 08-06-04, 12:39 AM	Random Arenas, random locations => like in a real campaign!! :eek: Hey Jindl, what about that? If you now don't jump up in delight I can't help you.
Beldin 08-06-04, 04:25 AM	then have fun writing tactics...:rolleyes:
Dawnlord 08-06-04, 05:22 AM	How's about a Coliseum fee for bringing along an ally for a fight. The amount which must be paid could vary, so that a powerful cohort would cost much more than a wizard's familiar. So the more you rely on your ally the more you have to live without expensive items.
Beldin 08-06-04, 05:43 AM	I think we really need a quikstart-sticky like druid proposed. There are often people browsing the coco - and leaving without a word. Perhaps they would join our small community if doing so is easier.
Druid Roxors 08-06-04, 06:33 AM	Originally posted by Ashenai But yeah, it's definitely worth a try. Perhaps it could be not _totally_ random, though? How about this: every player gets one or more vetoes (never more than half the available arenas -1, rounded up). They both send in their tactics, along with one or more arenas that they want to veto. The pitlord then selects randomly from among the remaining arenas. I think this would be really cool, because then you could always be sure that you won't get the single arena that just completely hoses your character concept. We could then have arenas with and without central pillars, etc, and everyone could veto the one (or ones) they didn't like for their own fights. No more of this particular wretched argument. Question: Are you a Warcraft 3 Player? :P And I really do believe that a Quickstart guide would help us gain much more players.
Jindl 08-06-04, 09:27 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Random Arenas, random locations => like in a real campaign!! :eek: Hey Jindl, what about that? If you now don't jump up in delight I can't help you. I like the multiple starting positions, but not the random arenas. Having multiple starting positions doesn't make tactics much more difficult. Random arenas makes tactics much more difficult to write, which in turn makes pitlording much more difficult, and I for one think that job is tough enough already. The number of complaints on fights will only increase if you go to a random arena. But the multiple starting positions doesn't sound bad. -Jindl
Jindl 08-06-04, 09:34 AM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Also, nowhere, no-how has the large central obstacle every stopped first round wins and neither wast he absence of it the contributing factor. Any archer on a friggin light horse could have easily won any of the round 1 kills. Also, and you can quote me on this one, ALL round 1 kills relied on luck. Some even on extreme luck. Removing the central pillar must be the first step. There never was a fight decided because the central pillar wasn't there or couldn't have been achieved in another way. This is absolutely true. But there's more to add: Caterane, you are trying to eliminate Initiative as a deciding factor in fights. The problem is, that in a Core game, initiative is perhaps the most important factor in a fight. So a high initiative modifier is important for optimization. Why try to change this in the CoCo? Most of the time, winning intiative only means getting in the first hit. Occasionally a character gets really lucky and kills his opponent in round one (either because a crit "Zorander" or a failed save "Willikens"). But those are cases of extreme luck (or maybe a poor build in the case of the failed save). Neither of those reasons are cause to change the impact of initiative on the fight. In a real campaign, casters don't usually have several rounds to buff, else the fight is over before they are done. Initiative is extremely important in the fight. We should preserve this in the CoCo by eliminating the central obstacle. Finally, and this is has been proven true, the central obstacle only hinder's non-casters. See my post above regarding "time favors the casters" for the detailed explanation. -Jindl
Jindl 08-06-04, 09:46 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Edit: Jindl Nah. That's a weak backdoor explanation to base your answer on a second wizard for utility spells. No way is that like in a campaign. Endure elements, knock, etc are just as often memorized as fireballs. He scribes scrolls with utility spells? That costs money. So should a wizard have less money because he scribes scrolls with utility spells? Is that what you're saying? And what about Cleric and Druids without the scribe scroll feat? Also, one should note your "Depending on..." which is exactly what I am saying: you pick the most favorable of favorable circumstances of a campaign and extrapolate it, then transfer it to the CoCo and sell it as THE representative of a campaign. And what if he's within a dungeon? Is there only one fight a day where he can expand all his spells on without worrying about further fights? You mentioned Teleport. Does this mean that the wizard should have a 5th level spell less to reflect your campaign idea? I mean, he expanded it to teleport the party away. Also note "depending on" again What if the enemy group focuses all their firepower on your spellcaster? He's down in one round, perhaps two. I've seen this so often. Spellcasters are the first whom you take out. See, it is NOT like in a campign as it is now, not even close. And we will never be able to simulate a campaign because there are too many variables. Instead we should focus to create a balanced arena that is considered an arena. Cat - For an example, just look at the RttToEE campaign. We have 4 spellcasters in that group. Look at the spells they are memorizing. Their memm'd spells look exactly like the ones that the gladiators are memorizing. The druid memorized: resist energy, barkskin, faerie fire, produce flame. The cleric: aid, enlarge person, bulls strength, resist energy, divine favor. The wizard: magic missilex2, ray of enfeeblement, mage armor, see invisibility, resist energy. That's exactly like what casters memorize in the CoCo. Nobody memorizes endure elements or knock. Though having a scroll: knock is a good idea. So when I say that casters in a campaign memorize very similar spell lists compared to casters in the CoCo, this is what I mean. And the RttToEE campaign only proves that point. As for rememming after a single fight and the use of teleport: Keep in mind that low level spellcasters have very few spells. In the RttToEE campaing, the cleric blew almost all of his spells in the first fight. So did the wizard. So they relied on turning and a wand: magic missiles in the second fight. Then we rested. At low levels, it is not uncommon for a caster to use almost all their spells in a single fight. So yes, it does make sense to rest after a fight like that. At higher levels, casters often keep a get away spell (teleport, transport via plants, even rope trick will work). Then, if a big fight comes along and they use all their spells, they have an easy way to rest and come back. So I think having just rested for the CoCo fight is approximate to a campaign. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 08-06-04, 11:07 AM	Not to add fuel to an existing fire but utility spells generally always come from scrolls becaue they're aren't used very often. And scribing scrolls doesn't take a lot of time, nor is it heavy on the xp for the wizard. My LG wizard, this is a true campaing and a living one at that, has scribed about 130 scrolls in his career. And time? It takes 1 day for every 1000gp in value. At 12.5 gp for a CL 1 first level scroll, a wizard could make 80 scrolls in a day, spending 80 xp if he/she was making CL 1 scrolls. So i'm of the opinion utility spells come from scrolls, attack/save spells come from mem. -ToK
roll8dn 08-06-04, 11:41 AM	Please note, (I belive this would be the Pitlords, but I could be wrong) whomever it may concern, that Thruden Sel'diarr has left the city of Gladius (I had a major oops when building his stats: I overlooked the fact that the Wood Elf has the +2 Str and -2 Int in addition to the usual Elf stats, rather than in place of). Therefore, he has been replaced by Selvos Rad'koln, a Grugach (Wild Elf) Ranger. Sorry about the mix-up; all I can say (to quote a wise man) is, "DOH!"
Moherajikuyx 08-06-04, 04:43 PM	Please go here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=288949) to keep talking about balance. Hum, I happened here just to announce an idea and I see that there are themed discussions here? It's not wise, see how they do it in the real adventures thread (just to say a really succesful board, more than the CoCo :( ): themes should have their threaded discussion. Cat you never liked this thing of the threads... Did you :P It helps people who doesn't come here as often as the habituals. In other words, old ones like me, but more importantly, newbies; because they don't feel that to inherit the feeling of what's going on here, they have to read 10000 posts of this thread! So Cat, and everyone else, please listen to my old-man rambling and try to begin adopting this kind of policy. More threads aren't a bad thing: the old ones go back in pages so they don't clutter, and they become more or less importance-ordered. More posts is a bad thing, they are always chronologically ordered. I couldn't read ever read this thread without getting fired. This thread should really be only about notices like roll8dn's last one, I believe. Or for things that people doesn't deem worthy of staying for long under view. And it doesn't look like as if the random arenas thing is unimportant... I suggest the actual gms, if they agree that helping newbies is important, to issue a thread - policy and to post it under the rules, or the guidelines for this thread, or where you prefer. Consider that there is a max number of posts for threads: this thread could reach it soon, and then what? We forget all the important stuff? Themed threads would help us keeping important things on mind. They could easily be linked, and we could do a link library for the arena discussions, as there are for the most important minmax board threads! One of the main reasons for creating this board was to stop to need going back hundreds of posts! BTW this post was for this: I just had an idea regarding balance, I'll do that balance thread I was talking about and I invite everyone to talk about balance (spells, utility spells, central obstacle, random arenas, random positions) there. I hope you will listen at me: I am able to follow some threads, but I have to select which ones because I happen here not every day. Thus, this thread - which I couldn't follow because it gets 100 more replies any time I look at it - is the first I have to ignore... :( I think I'm not alone, and... Originally posted by Beldin I think we really need a quikstart-sticky like druid proposed. There are often people browsing the coco - and leaving without a word. Perhaps they would join our small community if doing so is easier. I think that at least some of the lurkers are frightened by this thread! It became kind of the soul of the arena, and now it risks to kill it! I'm afraid that people who can't read all of this will be pushed away from the arena, because if one can't feel he's at home - and he will not if he can't read the soul of the arena - how could he stay? Beldin, your suggestion is really sound: but there's the FAQ already. Do you feel it's not enough? I did anything I could think of to help newbies: post a new thread and do a suggestion! :) Besides... how comes you guys do not feel the urge of doing new threads just for the sake of viewing your name in the board? Aren't you at least a bit... egocenthric? I did a whole new board!! LOL
Ethendril 08-06-04, 04:54 PM	I think that at least some of the lurkers are frightened by this thread! It became kind of the soul of the arena, and now it risks to kill it! Back when I first arrived here (back in December 2003 when Cat thought I was someone's alternate account;) ), I had actually been lurking here reading fights for about a month. I thought the fights were fun to read, so I had spent some time doing this. I was much too intimidated by the sheer quantity of posts to get started. I think a quick-start guide is a fabulous idea (as is Moh's suggestion that we have more threads), simply to make this place easier for a new player to get into. I have seen so many new faces around here, but many, like Beldin said, simply check things out, then vanish.
Aramil Dunskar 08-06-04, 05:45 PM	**Announcment** I'm going on vacation this comming week, and I won't return until the 15th, so you'll have to freeze Ernie and Quarion for the next weeks pairing, also I won't be able to post in the RttToEE game (sorry :( ) and I will not be able to ref any matches, so you'll have to put me on the inactive list until I come back. Thanks -AD
Jindl 08-06-04, 05:48 PM	RE: Quick Start Guide - We have heard and we obey. I'll be working on the Quick-Start guide very soon. It will be part of the FAQ on the Gladiator's post. We'll modify the name of the Gladiators post to read "Gladiators, FAQ, and Quick-Start Guide". So keep an eye out for it. RE: Seperate threads for each discussion - This is fine with me, however, lets make sure the discussion actually warrants a thread before just starting one. I think the GM's should prolly be consulted before starting discussion threads (it's unlikely we'll say no) just to keep it organized. That is the way they do it on the Real Adventures board (@Mo ;) ). -Jindl
Moherajikuyx 08-06-04, 05:59 PM	Originally posted by Jindl RE: Seperate threads for each discussion - This is fine with me, however, lets make sure the discussion actually warrants a thread before just starting one. I think the GM's should prolly be consulted before starting discussion threads (it's unlikely we'll say no) just to keep it organized. That is the way they do it on the Real Adventures board (@Mo ;) ). -Jindl That's reasonable: I find it perfect for the guidelines I suggested :) I'd love to see gms and senators suggesting people to start the threads when you deem their arguments worthy of it. Useless threads on the other hand are not such an issue: they tend to decay and go back in pages on the board, as no one replies. So my opinion is that permission policy is not necessary: gms can lock useless threads, to prevent stupid things, if things didn't change, which should be more than enough. Anyways I'm glad you approve. Now I fear I have to leave this night of luxurious posting! I lost a lot of time, and I was happy of it! Now I have to get back to my RL... I'll see you sunday guys! (tomorrow... seaside! if the weather's fine.)
Jindl 08-06-04, 06:08 PM	@Mo - GM's can only lock the threads we start (without asking Shadow to intervene). This will be official (as long as ToK and Cat agree): "Many discussions deserve their own thread. If you think a discussion warrants a seperate thread, please either post here or send a PM/email to one of the GM's for permission to open a discussion thread. Any individual GM can grant permission. The purpose of this is to keep things organized and to make sure that multiple threads aren't openened for the same discussion. The GM will then open the thread for you and the discussion can commence." -Jindl
Caterane 08-06-04, 06:32 PM	I was planning to rearrange the Gladiators thread because it isn't in the best order. The most important post is the Roster which should be at the top, followed by the pairings and the pitlords, then the arena, fus, default sheet and FAQ. The reason behind this is that I've already set up a newbie quickstart Guide but the current arrangement is not very efficent when it comes to explaining the CoCo. Btw, if we add a quickstart sticky, we should move the FAQ and default sheet section there aswell. So if Jindl and Tok are ok with that we can start right away, plus add my quickstart guide.
Jindl 08-06-04, 06:41 PM	I'd split the FAQ into 3 sections: 1. Quick Start Guide - I'd add the default character sheet to this section. It belongs here. 2. Pitlords Guide 3. CoCo Rules - I'd add the arena map to this section. It belongs there. Including it on the Gladiators thread is fine. We have enough stickies already. I'd arrange the Gladiators thread in this order: 1. Intro/Index by Mo 2. Pairings 3. Roster 4. Pitlords 5. FAQ 6. Individual Character Sheets Then I would move the FU's to the World Thread. They fit in better there anyway. Let me see what you have on the QuickStart guide. I'm planning to work on the FAQ (as described above) now that I don't have to spend so much time on the Roster/Pairings. The Quick Start Guide belongs as a section of the FAQ. Newbies should read the FAQ first. -Jindl
Lord_of_Turnips 08-06-04, 07:39 PM	(high-pitched, raspy voice)DEATH TO THE ARROGANT HUMAN FILTH!!! Those races which humans and elves and dwarves and other self-righteous pinkskin abominations of there sort are running rampant and their populations must be checked!BEHOLD MY WRATH!!!
Druid Roxors 08-06-04, 07:40 PM	Ooo! My quickstart Guide Idea was Implemented :angel:
Battousai2005 08-06-04, 07:51 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket There are examples of one side writing tactics and the other not, and being declared in default, but never have BOTH sides not written tactics. You are in unchartered territory there Bat. Just use your judgment, do what you think is right. -ToK Well, to the extent of my knowledge, no tactics on either side. I'd still be willing to accept tactics. Unless I recieve tactics, I'm none too sure I want to run the fight. I don't want someone accusing me of screwing up. (happens too often in RL) If one side gets tactics in, I'll declare that one the winner. If none, well, I dunno. Any input as to what I should do would be nice. My judgement sucks...
Battousai2005 08-06-04, 07:53 PM	Originally posted by Lord_of_Turnips (high-pitched, raspy voice)DEATH TO THE ARROGANT HUMAN FILTH!!! Those races which humans and elves and dwarves and other self-righteous pinkskin abominations of there sort are running rampant and their populations must be checked!BEHOLD MY WRATH!!! Mike, is that you?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-07-04, 01:58 AM	Robert Darkwind Gender: M Race: Human Zombie Hey Sindorin, i gotta give ya an A for originality. I could be wrong, but a creature (or template) with LA: -- means it can't advance in levels. It would need to have LA: +0 or greater right? Just checking, i could be wrong though. -ToK
Sindorin 08-07-04, 02:13 AM	lol i have no idea, i just thought it would be fun.
MotherBast 08-07-04, 07:40 AM	I don't know if LA - creatures can gain levels or not, but I do no that LA - means they are not available as choices for PCs, and also the CoCo FAQ states that only creatures with a listed LA can be gladiators, so they aren't legal here anyway. It would be intresting to see tactics for an INT 0 zombie though... Round 1: Win or lose Init, EAT BRAINS Round 2: Partial charge if able, and EAT BRAINS Round 3+: Continue with the EATing of the BRAINS [edit]Aku vs. Cori is done. The shapeshifting master of Darnkess vs. the Wildshaping master of FIRE. Hears a hint, the winner is the high level caster who is good at changing forms. Should be posted in a couple of hours, gotta write a stroy for this one, and I'm gonna take a shower now. [edit 2ed]Fight posted. Big story. Enjoy.
Druid Roxors 08-07-04, 01:28 PM	Hey MB Great story! Grr, you are right, the current companion should be listed as a pre-buff. Ill do that on my upcoming fights. I belive there are no mistakes in it, lets see what Jindl says.
Caterane 08-07-04, 01:45 PM	@MB: Cool Story! Especially the introduction is closer to reality than one might think :D I've finished all fights, and 2/3 of the story. Will be posted tomorow.
Druid Roxors 08-07-04, 01:49 PM	@ Cat: And you expected to be finished by Monday :P
Caterane 08-07-04, 02:21 PM	Yes, with no story. And I've waited 3 days on Mag's tactics without doing anything.
Druid Roxors 08-07-04, 06:46 PM	Brock Vs Vaarkalikax is now Posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4145638#post4145638) Please direct any and all concerns to the Comments and Concerns Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=284121)
KerlanRayne 08-08-04, 02:12 AM	I just wanted to let everyone know that the SRD linked in my sig has been updated. It Now Includes Psionics! If you want to download a copy onto your computer for offline use, Click Here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/index.htm?35/sovelior_sage.htm). KerlanRayne
Irien 08-08-04, 11:32 AM	Hi all... I am back from my 3 weeks away and will be updating Ivan shortly. Aramil - Sorry I didn't get tactics to you for the fight. I was about to leave, and decided I'd check this site to see if I won my fight or not. After realizing it had been postponed a week, I had to write tactics in the car and give it to a friend to send to you. Sorry again that it didn't reach you in time.
Hatzinger 08-08-04, 12:59 PM	Hi, all. I´m back from a short trip into RL. Too bad that i didn´t spot the little post (i guess there was one) that got lost between the tons of other posts that informed the pitlords that the fights have to be posted on sunday. Who came up with this stupid thing anyway? Well, gimme my penalty. I´ll post Harvester vs. Arkin hopefully tomorrow. Oh, and Pyro vs. Tharkan and Shiaan vs. Ernie have been posted.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-08-04, 01:01 PM	Yeah, disregard the Sunday deadline. May as well make it same as always MONDAY. No point in rushing things i guess. -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-08-04, 01:04 PM	Question: Are bracers of Armor considered "armor" for a monk? Bracers of Armor: These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armorAs though, but not quite.
Druid Roxors 08-08-04, 02:58 PM	WoW Cat that was a great story!! I'll give you 10 pts for originallity! :P :angel: Ancient Evils, Part 3: The Tree of Life quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- x -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- x -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- x -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- x -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- x -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- x -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- x --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Caterane 08-08-04, 03:07 PM	The Saga continues!! Here's a new episode from the Ancient Evil Series! Enjoy: Ancient Evils, part 3: The Tree of Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4150555#post4150555) To read Part 1 and 2 see World Thread! @Druid: Still better than yours :D
Ethendril 08-08-04, 04:25 PM	Hey Cat: Great job on the Ancient Evil story. As always, a sweeping epic. The Gladius Times states: "Masterfully written. The best I've read since Deepstone Squad! I give it a 5 out of 5!" Thanks for a good story. -Ethendril
Beldin 08-08-04, 06:57 PM	@Kerlan: thats great, I use it since I saw it first in your sig
Battousai2005 08-08-04, 09:44 PM	How do I put this nicely...nope. No way. No tactics on either sides. Quite frankly, I'm dissappointed. I have no idea what to do for this fight. I'm not going to run this fight tactics-less. I really don't want to do the guesswork. As TOK said, I've seen no precident for this one. So Cat doesn't yell at me, I was really planning on running this one. Go ahead and dock the cred as I didn't run the fight
Jindl 08-08-04, 10:09 PM	@Batt - No prob. It isn't your fault. The gladiators will go back into the Roster, and I'll let you keep the credit anyway, because it isn't fair to deny you the chance to earn one for the past two weeks. -Jindl
Battousai2005 08-08-04, 10:10 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Batt - No prob. It isn't your fault. The gladiators will go back into the Roster, and I'll let you keep the credit anyway, because it isn't fair to deny you the chance to earn one for two weeks. -Jindl Grats, Jindl. So, back to stirring up trouble! ;) Hey, Cat, ready for natural attack debates, round 2? :fight!: Can a lycanthrope monk that I may design in the future :angel: use its natural attacks while in hybrid form?
Druid Roxors 08-08-04, 10:24 PM	You can use Natural attacks in hybrid mode. Of course you can. What you cannot do is use your Natural attacks as damage instead of flurry. Flurry has its own damage only dependant on size and any feat you might have. Although, any secondary natural attacks can be used in conjunction with a full attack. In other words, you get a full flurry of blows + bite.
Battousai2005 08-08-04, 10:27 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors You can use Natural attacks in hybrid mode. Of course you can. What you cannot do is use your Natural attacks as damage instead of flurry. Flurry has its own damage only dependant on size and any feat you might have. Although, any secondary natural attacks can be used in conjunction with a full attack. In other words, you get a full flurry of blows + bite. I hope everyone agrees. Now we wait for Caterane... Cat: :D Bang!!! Me: :b:
Caterane 08-08-04, 10:59 PM	Why shouldn't you be able to use them? They are listed in the MM entry. I see no problem here. You can aswell take INA for one attack form as soon as you have +4 bab. After our vote you can even use Impr.natural attack on your unarmed strike but you have to make sure that you don't cut your fingernails :rolleyes:
Battousai2005 08-08-04, 11:03 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Why shouldn't you be able to use them? They are listed in the MM entry. I see no problem here. You can aswell take INA for one attack form as soon as you have +4 bab. After our vote you can even use Impr.natural attack on your unarmed strike but you have to make sure that you don't cut your fingernails :rolleyes: :OMG! So, no protests? From anyone? I do belive this is a first! I might actually make this character now!!!
Battousai2005 08-08-04, 11:03 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Why shouldn't you be able to use them? They are listed in the MM entry. I see no problem here. You can aswell take INA for one attack form as soon as you have +4 bab. After our vote you can even use Impr.natural attack on your unarmed strike but you have to make sure that you don't cut your fingernails :rolleyes: :OMG! So, no protests? From anyone? I do belive this is a first! I might actually make this character now!!!
Jindl 08-08-04, 11:15 PM	@Batt - Sure, go ahead. But remember, if you flurry, you do so with your IUS or a special monk weapon, not your claws/bite. However, you can flurry+bite as Druid already mentioned (get boots of speed for a flurry+haste+bite !!) -Jindl
Caterane 08-08-04, 11:22 PM	If you can flurry + bite (natural weapon) you can aswell flurry + claw since unarmed strike is also elbow, knee, headbutt, kick, nonsense gaze, etc. So you can use unarmed strike in conjunction with your natural attacks like flurry + claw claw bite gore :)
SnarkHunter 08-08-04, 11:39 PM	@Jindl: ah, good to know. Now if I could only get Myrr to respond to my concern with the Evram fight.
Myrridin 08-09-04, 08:56 AM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Now if I could only get Myrr to respond to my concern with the Evram fight. Sorry, I tend to not be so active on the boards on weekends. I stated in the Comments thread, but it's worth mentioning here again, I've gone over your tactics, and you never say to augment the energy ray to the maximum amount. I didn't know that's what you wanted to do, but given the situation you were in, makes the most sense.
SnarkHunter 08-09-04, 09:01 AM	Gracias sir. I only ask for the same consideration nothing more :). Oh in other news the errata for psionics is out. Not many substantive changes, but Blues are actually worth a +1 LA now.
Druid Roxors 08-09-04, 09:21 AM	Originally posted by Caterane If you can flurry + bite (natural weapon) you can aswell flurry + claw since unarmed strike is also elbow, knee, headbutt, kick, nonsense gaze, etc. So you can use unarmed strike in conjunction with your natural attacks like flurry + claw claw bite gore :) No, that is not how it works. You use a full attack and you MAY use your SECONDARY attacks ONLY, in conjuction with it. So it is a flurry + Bite if a bear or flurry + 2 foreclaws + Bite if you are a Deinonychus.
Caterane 08-09-04, 10:12 AM	Why not? Where's the difference? I can wield a longsword and make a fullattack with it and still be able to use ALL my natural weapons. Or let's say Armor Spikes which doesn't use a hand (like unarmed strike): if I make a full attack with armor spikes I can still use claw claw bite whatever in addition. Look into the MM for examples. Every natural weapon is used in addition. Unarmed strike doesn't need hands or arms so my claws are still not used.
cellardweller 08-09-04, 11:06 AM	<Nods in agreement> The SRD does say A creature can use one of its secondary natural weapons when making an attack action, but if it does it takes an attack penalty, as noted in the Full Attack section below Taking this statement on it own it would indicate that only secondary natural weapons. Looking at every monster in the MM that uses natural and manufactured weapons however, makes what the intent of the statement is obvious: You can attack with natural weapons but they are all treated as secondary.
Druid Roxors 08-09-04, 11:10 AM	That seems correct, acording to the rules. I wish they would clarify all this on Faqs etc. In any case, my new character is almost ready. Perhaps Ixidor has found a new enemy...
Druid Roxors 08-09-04, 11:17 AM	Its almost ready, I still have to decide some minor stuff. I have plenty of time tho. Demon Lord Themmez (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3952796#post3952796)
Ethendril 08-09-04, 11:30 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Its almost ready, I still have to decide some minor stuff. I have plenty of time tho. Demon Lord Themmez (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3952796#post3952796) I like it. A new Coliseum super-villain!
Ethendril 08-09-04, 12:23 PM	It seems that we will not be putting a cap on allies now, but I have another suggestion on monster fights. Monster fights should only cost 1 credit, not 2. Here are the main reasons this should happen: 1. If someone only participates here with one character, and never Pitlords a fight, they can never run their character in a monster fight. This is inherently unfair, as it puts those who only run one character but don't pitlord at a serious disadvantage. 2. For the vast majority of monster fights, the result is a foregone conclusion. While there are exceptions for those with maxed out handle animal, most fights will be simpler to run than a gladiator/gladiator fight. Several weeks ago, Druid Roxors volunteered to run a monster fight for Vaarkalikax so he wouldn't have to kill his own horse. Even if there is not support for reducing the cost of the fights, could someone volunteer to run the fight for one credit or for no credits? It just seems like there should be a way around the prohibitive cost of monster fights. There are certainly enough people that want maxed-out fights. I hope there is support for this idea. -Ethendril
Druid Roxors 08-09-04, 12:27 PM	Enter Demon Lord Themmez (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4157072#post4157072)
Druid Roxors 08-09-04, 12:57 PM	Yes, I belive monster fights are a hinderance to new players. Since new players are as likely to create a caster than a meleer they would be at a disadvantage if they lack the support of HA allies. 1 credit sounds good.
KerlanRayne 08-09-04, 01:05 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Enter Demon Lord Themmez (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4157072#post4157072) Might want to list the LA or the ECL somewhere on the sheet. KerlanRayne
Druid Roxors 08-09-04, 01:14 PM	NO! Its a secret :P
Battousai2005 08-09-04, 01:19 PM	Hey, for the whole thing on natural attacks (glad to know it started some argument. I was getting worried there ;) ), I know that secondary attacks can be used in a full attack, albiet a -5 penalty. Now for a monk, the flurry states you must use a full attack in order to use the ability. So in other words, you may flurry and bite, correct? Now, I looked up perhensial for the lycanthrope (they state that lycanthropes have perhensial hands while in hybrid form) and was curious as to whether this meant that they could use weapons while in that form. Might be nice, although their claw attacks would be unavailable. I never got a sure response on this one, so here goes: is it possible to apply poison to a natural weapon? Man, I need to post this character. Its rather fun, and some thought actually went into it.
Druid Roxors 08-09-04, 01:29 PM	I believe you can poison natural weapons. Although, make sure the poison is not activated by contact AND you have the special poisoning skill that the arena rules say that you need to have it as a prebuff. (as, 1 lvl in assasin)
Tellish_of_Ket 08-09-04, 01:31 PM	Death Dealer (Ethendril) vs Pard Longfellow (MysicMonk2005): LLMadCow Sven Enno (Market_Share) vs Delayar (Beldin): Ashenai Rhoar (Jindl) vs Zephin Telloran (Myrridin): Magagumo The Harvester (1st avatar) (Caterane) vs Arkin Jozil (kattattack22): Hatzinger Jindl of the High Forest (Jindl) vs Candessa Rain (MotherBast): SnarkHunter Donkey (SnarkHunter) vs Kiri'endelas (Ethendril): Jindl Hey Pitlords. Any chance these fights will get done today? I know Jindl will post at 11:59 just to be a nuisance ( :looloo: ) LOL, but i'm wondering about the others. -ToK
Battousai2005 08-09-04, 01:33 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors I believe you can poison natural weapons. Although, make sure the poison is not activated by contact AND you have the special poisoning skill that the arena rules say that you need to have it as a prebuff. (as, 1 lvl in assasin) Ah, that rules out my lycan. Oh well. Now, Shinigami. He has potental. While on the subject, Armanithil and Cante both come off inactive this week (yay!!!). Akordia may remain inactive perminatly, although she may stay around for a roleplay reasons. Shinigami will be active next week with Kage. Atheran, while fun for a while, is built with a critical flaw and thus is not returning.
SnarkHunter 08-09-04, 02:04 PM	@ToK: I'll have it up tonight, I'm a few more rounds advanced from my last update, and now I'm off to work.
Hatzinger 08-09-04, 03:13 PM	I´ll post mine within the next few hours. Arkin vs. Harvester is in round #6 now. What seemed to be a quick end could get a prolonged battle. :)
LLMadCow 08-09-04, 03:22 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Death Dealer (Ethendril) vs Pard Longfellow (MysicMonk2005): LLMadCow Hey Pitlords. Any chance these fights will get done today? I know Jindl will post at 11:59 just to be a nuisance ( :looloo: ) LOL, but i'm wondering about the others. -ToK I am writing mine right now. I am going to hop off the boards for a bit less distractions. BTW - I still consider the Mr. Big fight to be unfinished due to lack of following instructions, mainly rage, which has my Mr. Big at 2 HP and his opponent at 3 HP, with several AoO and/or an attack in there that favor him.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-09-04, 03:52 PM	Originally posted by LLMadCow I am writing mine right now. I am going to hop off the boards for a bit less distractions. BTW - I still consider the Mr. Big fight to be unfinished due to lack of following instructions, mainly rage, which has my Mr. Big at 2 HP and his opponent at 3 HP, with several AoO and/or an attack in there that favor him. If Myrr addresses them by wednesday that's cool. But after that, we have to go ahead with pairings regardless and the current outcome will have to stand. I know it sux, but it's happened to us all before. (hehe. even with me from you. lol) -ToK
Myrridin 08-09-04, 04:08 PM	I have already stated that my record isn't as important to me as Mr.Big's is apparently, and I'm fine with Big getting the win, and Sildaris being bumped. I'm not sure how long he'll stick around anyways. :) I've gone back, and redone the Tair vs Evram fight. And I think I followed the tactics closer. The result was the same as the first fight, as I rerolled the final round. It's not all that satisifactory to me, but I believe that it's the way the fight should've gone as well; and did go the first time. I'll have to look through the shapes people want to Polymorph into more closely next time.
Hatzinger 08-09-04, 04:34 PM	The Harvester (Ftr1/Clr12) versus Arkin Jozil (Clr4/Wiz5/MyTh4) is up. - A caster duel! I must say that these Mystic theurges are not the weak minimized builds that i always thoughed them to be. At least at higher levels, that is. ;)
Battousai2005 08-09-04, 04:40 PM	Still curious about this one. Can were-whatevers use weapons other than natural in hybrid form.
Ethendril 08-09-04, 04:54 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Still curious about this one. Can were-whatevers use weapons other than natural in hybrid form. Hey Batt: Check out the description of the werewolf lord in the MM on pg. 176. The entry has the werewolf lord, in hybrid form, attacking with Claw +24 melee (1d6+11) or +2 bastard sword +27 melee (2d8+15/17-20). So yeah, you can attack with weapons other than natural weapons in hybrid form.
Druid Roxors 08-09-04, 04:55 PM	Yes they can. If they do, they lose access to whatever ammount of claws he uses for his weapon on his subsequent secondary attacks.
Battousai2005 08-09-04, 05:17 PM	Everyone say hi to Rain. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3481032#post3481032) He likes dog biscuts, but gets offended if you try to scratch behind his ear. Candy can go right ahead though...
Druid Roxors 08-09-04, 05:21 PM	Allow me to venture a guess... You are a Wolf's Rain Fan.
cellardweller 08-10-04, 02:04 AM	@Druid Please see roleplay thread....
Pitlords 08-10-04, 09:18 AM	@ALL - Announcements: Roster updating: If you do not see "OK" beside your character and wish to fight this week please change the subject line to reflect that. Fights that are still pending: You will still face each other tomorrow, however, a new pitlord will be assigned. Pitlording: Since last pairings was a two-week pairings, i'm not sure if the current active pitlord list reflects what people would like to commit to this week. If you want to reduce the number of fights to pitlord please send me (ToK) or Pitlords a PM. I'd prefer if you sent it to the Pitlords account. As usual if there is anything amiss, please don't be shy and i'll address all your concerns in a timely fashion. -ToK
Ashenai 08-10-04, 10:00 AM	Fights that are still pending: You will still face each other tomorrow, however, a new pitlord will be assigned. I'm still working on the Sven-Delayar fight. I'm sorry it's late; I had a lot of RL stuff I suddenly had to deal with, and the fight is shaping up to be pretty complex. Here's where I am now: Round 15 Delayar casts Mirror Image (6 images) and moves to (4,-4). MS 12 (5 +9skill -4pain -5moving +7distance). Listen 15 (9 +7skill -1enervation), success within 20'. Sven knows that Delayar is within 20' of (3,-1) Heckenschere moves to (3,-6). Sven lands (2,4) and dismisses Polymorph, reverting to human form. MS 4 (0 +4distance). Hawk reverts to Hawk form, moving to (2,4). MS 24 (17 +3dex +4distance). Listen 20 (17 +7skill -4pain), success within 5'. Delayar knows that Sven is within 5' of (1,4). ** Sven Enno 23/61 (2,4,10) Mage Armor[inf], Symbol of Pain[inf], Bear's Endurance[102], enervated(1) ** Hawk 39/30 (2,4,9) Mage Armor[shared, inf], False Life[inf] ** Delayar 58/58 (4,-4) Mage Armor[inf], Mirror Image[6 images, 95], pain ** Heckenschere 30/30 (3,-6) defending Delayar, pain As can be seen, both gladiators have been busy :) Anyway, I'll be finished with the fight by later today. I hope that is acceptable.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-10-04, 10:12 AM	completely acceptable. We look forward to the interesting conclusion of that one. Looks very interesting. -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-10-04, 10:41 AM	@ Pitlords/ToK: My active Characters: - Viciocelis Tharkan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=3707816#post3707816) Lvl 3 - Demon Lord Themmez (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3952796#post3952796) Lvl 5 - Corinthus Avius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2722346#post2722346) Lvl 14 (Yes, this was also sent to the Pitlords account Via PM)
Caterane 08-10-04, 11:03 AM	@Tellish: Please un-update the Harvester vs Arkin fight until Hatzinger replies to what I wrote on the comments thread.
LLMadCow 08-10-04, 11:14 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin I have already stated that my record isn't as important to me as Mr.Big's is apparently, and I'm fine with Big getting the win, and Sildaris being bumped. I'm not sure how long he'll stick around anyways. :) @Pitlords - Aramil Dunskar ran the Mr. Big vs Sildaris fight and then disappeared. As I stated before (In the Fights concerns thread), I felt the fight was unfinished and should be finished. Myrridin has been gracious enough to take a loss, under the circumstances, and give Mr. Big the win. Please see the other thread for details regarding the unfinished fight. Can I get an official response? I'd like to level Mr. Big and prep him for this week....
SnarkHunter 08-10-04, 11:21 AM	So far Evram and Donkey are ready, I've heard bubo will be as well, and I'm considering readying someone else...
Jindl 08-10-04, 11:30 AM	Yep, Bubo has been updated and set ready. Time to put Evram's winning streak to an end. @ Snark - How about Skymoon vs Aku? Aku has never had the chance to kill a paladin before. He thinks it could be ... entertaining. For a few seconds at least. (His words, not mine ;)) Unless Mag shows up and posts Rhoar's fight, then I suppose the Neanderthal will be reassigned to a new pitlord. And Jindl will be updated as well.
Ethendril 08-10-04, 11:30 AM	Druid: Was that you that said you had to cut and paste the name "Vaarkalikax" every time? "Viciocelis" ;)
Druid Roxors 08-10-04, 10:10 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Druid: Was that you that said you had to cut and paste the name "Vaarkalikax" every time? ;) Yes, it was me... But at least I did Copy-Paste! :D In other news... 11 hour boards downtime Sucks big time. :( Edit: An E-Mail has been dispatched to our Technical Staff, who you can also contact if the problem persistsI wonder how their inbox is... :nonono:
Sindorin 08-10-04, 11:22 PM	I had a character named Xtonus Soulrendir for a little while, and in his first fight the opponent called him "Xaseus" in their tactics, I was like 'cool' and I put it as like a secondary name on the character sheet. BTW, I am back, I guess I just needed a day to cool my jets, and I also invested in a Psionics Handbook, so I won't feel cheated now that I see it all in writing, even though it doesn't say "Core Rulebook" on it like the DMG, PH, and MM do, so I once again say it isn't core. Either way, expect me to post a psionic character soon. I am also able to pitlord one fight per week, psionics are okay but may be somewhat shaggy. Tair's sheet is all screwed up because I thought I had won that last fight, so I levelled him to eight, whereas he is [ok] for level seven fights. I don't know when the editing deadline thing is because last time I thought I was okay and I ended up editing late, so I'm not sure if I should fix it. If in the event he is paired, I will send his level seven sheet from his level seven fight with a slight prepared spell revision similar to the one shown right now, except less spells and at proper level to both the pitlord AND opponent so they may write their tactics or audit accordingly. Like I said in my last post, I am too attached to this place, and it was driving me crazy trying not to check it during the past two days. I knew I already regretted leaving. I sincerely apologize for dampening the spirit of this forum for a day or two. I will try to make it up to you all by exercising what Dru Rox called 'potential'. I'm back.
SnarkHunter 08-10-04, 11:38 PM	@Sindorian: glad to have you back, we've all been there before. I hope you realize it was nothing personal. @Jindl: Thats the thing I've been struggling for a way to make Skymoon competive in the current environment and so far I haven't come up with anything. Also as a general rule I don't like challenges.
Druid Roxors 08-10-04, 11:48 PM	Originally posted by Sindorin I had a character named Xtonus Soulrendir for a little while, and in his first fight the opponent called him "Xaseus" in their tactics, I was like 'cool' and I put it as like a secondary name on the character sheet. But Viciocelis hates not being called Viciocelis! :behold: BTW, I am back, I guess I just needed a day to cool my jets, and I also invested in a Psionics Handbook, so I won't feel cheated now that I see it all in writing, even though it doesn't say "Core Rulebook" on it like the DMG, PH, and MM do, so I once again say it isn't core. Either way, expect me to post a psionic character soon. I am also able to pitlord one fight per week, psionics are okay but may be somewhat shaggy. Hey, if you cant beat them, Join them! :D Tair's sheet is all screwed up because I thought I had won that last fight, so I levelled him to eight, whereas he is [ok] for level seven fights. I don't know when the editing deadline thing is because last time I thought I was okay and I ended up editing late, so I'm not sure if I should fix it. If in the event he is paired, I will send his level seven sheet from his level seven fight with a slight prepared spell revision similar to the one shown right now, except less spells and at proper level to both the pitlord AND opponent so they may write their tactics or audit accordingly. This happened to me once, I had the victory, edited and then lost. What I did is to check the original fight for the character sheet. You still have time for some editting, besides, it is probable that with the 11 hour forums downtime many characters are still unprepared. I guess the 9pm (GMT) rule can be extended for this week. Like I said in my last post, I am too attached to this place, and it was driving me crazy trying not to check it during the past two days. I knew I already regretted leaving. Which is why most people do not leave, even after witnessing horrible Flame-wars. If you know what I mean... This is a great place and I like it and my characters, I would regret leaving just as you have. I sincerely apologize for dampening the spirit of this forum for a day or two. I will try to make it up to you all by exercising what Dru Rox called 'potential'. I'm back.You bet ;)
Ashenai 08-11-04, 12:35 AM	Sven Enno vs. Delayar is up. The fight was ready yesterday, about 10 minutes after the forums went down. I was not amused. :mad: Once more, sorry about the extreme lateness. I think it's a pretty exciting fight, though. It was certainly very complex, and a lot of fun to mod. :)
Ashenai 08-11-04, 04:53 AM	I have a couple of rules questions. They came up in the fight I was running: 1) How exactly does a familiar's Share Spells work with spells that can be "depleted", such as False Life? Basically, this is three questions: a) If I decide to Share a False Life spell with my familiar, do I roll the d10 separately for both of us, or do we both get the same roll? b) What happens if we both get (say) 12 hp from the spell, but then I get hit for 12 hp, removing my False Life? Is the familiar's then also removed? c) Finally, if I get hit for 6 hp and my familiar also gets hit for 6 hp, is the False Life then removed from both of us, or do both of us have 6 hp's worth of False Life left? In other words, does a shared spell count as a _single_ casting of the spell, or as two _different_ castings that happen to be linked? 2) Let's say I want to cast Dispel Magic at someone who has a Mirror Image up. Am I right in supposing that if I cast a targeted Dispel (as opposed to an area Dispel), I have to pick one of the images at random, just like for any other spell? If yes, what happens if I pick an image for the Dispel? I would rule that I'd have to roll a normal Dispel check for it, and if successful, that image (and only that image) disappears, and the Dispel has no other effect. I'm curious as to what everyone else thinks, though.
Hatzinger 08-11-04, 05:31 AM	What started as fun is now just bothering. I suspend my activities here for an indefinite amount of time.
Beldin 08-11-04, 05:56 AM	yes, the fun is hard to find here - sometimes.:rolleyes: Sorry to see you go. Heinrich was THE wizard. I hope indefinite meens not endless...
Myrridin 08-11-04, 09:11 AM	Brennan Allanson is ready for 11/8 pairings. What even happened to the Zephin vs Rhoar fight?
Jindl 08-11-04, 09:44 AM	Originally posted by Ashenai I have a couple of rules questions. They came up in the fight I was running: 1) How exactly does a familiar's Share Spells work with spells that can be "depleted", such as False Life? Basically, this is three questions: a) If I decide to Share a False Life spell with my familiar, do I roll the d10 separately for both of us, or do we both get the same roll? b) What happens if we both get (say) 12 hp from the spell, but then I get hit for 12 hp, removing my False Life? Is the familiar's then also removed? c) Finally, if I get hit for 6 hp and my familiar also gets hit for 6 hp, is the False Life then removed from both of us, or do both of us have 6 hp's worth of False Life left? In other words, does a shared spell count as a _single_ casting of the spell, or as two _different_ castings that happen to be linked? 2) Let's say I want to cast Dispel Magic at someone who has a Mirror Image up. Am I right in supposing that if I cast a targeted Dispel (as opposed to an area Dispel), I have to pick one of the images at random, just like for any other spell? If yes, what happens if I pick an image for the Dispel? I would rule that I'd have to roll a normal Dispel check for it, and if successful, that image (and only that image) disappears, and the Dispel has no other effect. I'm curious as to what everyone else thinks, though. 1-a) Roll independently for each, because the spell is applied to each seperately. 1-b) False life has a duration of 1 hr/level. This duration is unaffected by the loss of the temporary hps that were gained through the spell. So even after losing the temporary hps, a detect magic would still reveal the necromancy effect until the duration ended. Even if the master lost his temporary hps, the spell duration continues, and the familiar may keep his independently rolled temporary hps (as long as he remains within 5 ft). 1-c) Two different castings, where the second casting is linked by duration dependent on proximity to the first casting. 2) Your ruling is correct. Luckily, this has been commented on in the FAQ. Any targetted attack destroys an image and only that image. A targetted dispel is a targetted attack. The best way to destroy mirror image actually belongs to the fighters: Great Cleave. According to the FAQ, each image that is destroyed triggers the Great Cleave feat, which could allow a fighter to burn through all of you images very quickly. -Jindl
Ashenai 08-11-04, 10:08 AM	@Jindl: Thanks! That makes things clearer.
Ethendril 08-11-04, 11:24 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger What started as fun is now just bothering. I suspend my activities here for an indefinite amount of time. I hope you come back soon, Hatz. I'm not sure what happened, but I was extremely fearful to ever face Heinrich. Hopefully you'll return soon.
Kaigan 08-11-04, 12:17 PM	Just wondering if you guys noticed my new character?
Jindl 08-11-04, 12:27 PM	@Tellish / Cat - I'd like to suggest postponing the editing deadline and pairings by 24 hours, to account for the boards being down for most of the day yesterday. What do my co-GM's think about this? -Jindl
Ethendril 08-11-04, 12:31 PM	I'd like to request one or two monster fights this week, depending on the cost of the fights. I only saw support for lowering the cost of monster fights to 1 credit, and have seen no one against this (I've suggested it twice). I'd also like to request Druid Roxors run the fights for me, since he volunteered to do so earlier (and I like how he runs fights:) ).
Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon 08-11-04, 12:48 PM	I might be mistaken, but when I joined last week I was informed that postings would be placed Wednesday. With my charecter finished and the "ready for" thing in his headline I thought I was ready for pairings. Yeasterday I checked the pairings and found my charecter wasn't on the list. Did I miss something?
Jindl 08-11-04, 01:06 PM	Originally posted by Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon I might be mistaken, but when I joined last week I was informed that postings would be placed Wednesday. With my charecter finished and the "ready for" thing in his headline I thought I was ready for pairings. Yeasterday I checked the pairings and found my charecter wasn't on the list. Did I miss something? @TTD - Pairings are scheduled to be today after 9 PM GMT. We (the GM's) are discussing postponing them 24 hours due to the boards being down yesterday. Regardless, your PC will be included in the pairings. Thanks for posting your concern (always a good idea to let us know if something doesn't look right!) And if I haven't said so before, Welcome to the CoCo!! -Jindl
Druid Roxors 08-11-04, 01:09 PM	Originally posted by Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon I might be mistaken, but when I joined last week I was informed that postings would be placed Wednesday. With my charecter finished and the "ready for" thing in his headline I thought I was ready for pairings. Yeasterday I checked the pairings and found my charecter wasn't on the list. Did I miss something? Yes, You need to send a PM to the Pitlords Account. Include the name of your character, level, a link to its page or pagenumber and request for its activation. Use this link here: Pitlord's PM (http://boards1.wizards.com/private.php?action=newmessage&userid=245524) I belive it should work Edit: oh, tellish replied.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-04, 01:09 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan Just wondering if you guys noticed my new character? yup, i did. The boards went down yesterday before i was able to add it to the roster. Rest assure it will be added and made ready. Originally posted by Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon I might be mistaken, but when I joined last week I was informed that postings would be placed Wednesday. With my charecter finished and the "ready for" thing in his headline I thought I was ready for pairings. Yeasterday I checked the pairings and found my charecter wasn't on the list. Did I miss something? Nope, you didn't miss anything. It will be made ready. The boards have been acting funny the last couple of days. Originally posted by Jindl @Tellish / Cat - I'd like to suggest postponing the editing deadline and pairings by 24 hours, to account for the boards being down for most of the day yesterday. What do my co-GM's think about this? -Jindl I don't see any problems with this. Pairings will be delays until Thursday 9pm GMT! -ToK
Caterane 08-11-04, 02:04 PM	Ok. Does that mean I am doing the pairings then (Thursday = Catday)?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-04, 02:11 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Ok. Does that mean I am doing the pairings then (Thursday = Catday)? If you wish. If you don't i can do it, no biggy. I'll try to make sure though that everything is spiffy and ready for you on thursday if you wanna do them. -ToK
Ethendril 08-11-04, 02:14 PM	I only saw support for lowering the cost of monster fights to 1 credit, and have seen no one against this (I've suggested it twice). @Cat, Jindl, Tellish, & MB: Do you see any problem with lowering the cost of monster fights? As it currently stands, someone who doesn't pitlord fights could never get an undead or handle animal ally. [Sorry to be persistent, but none of you has ever responded to this and I've posted several times. It's you guys I'm looking for a response from, and I'd like to know before pairings.:) ]
Battousai2005 08-11-04, 02:23 PM	@Pitlords: Anyway, changing the roster a bit, I'd like two fights so as to keep Kage on active. I rather think he has the greatest chance of winning in not paired vs. Enilias, but hey, what the heck.
Jindl 08-11-04, 02:31 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril @Cat, Jindl, Tellish, & MB: Do you see any problem with lowering the cost of monster fights? As it currently stands, someone who doesn't pitlord fights could never get an undead or handle animal ally. [Sorry to be persistent, but none of you has ever responded to this and I've posted several times. It's you guys I'm looking for a response from, and I'd like to know before pairings.:) ] Just my opinion: but for now I would say stick with it counting as 2 pc's. I would really like the Elder's to give their recommendation before we change this, but we'll have to wait for the 3 new people to be voted in. -Jindl
Caterane 08-11-04, 02:41 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril @Cat, Jindl, Tellish, & MB: Do you see any problem with lowering the cost of monster fights? As it currently stands, someone who doesn't pitlord fights could never get an undead or handle animal ally. [Sorry to be persistent, but none of you has ever responded to this and I've posted several times. It's you guys I'm looking for a response from, and I'd like to know before pairings.:) ] The original and still only reason for 2 credits is that you need 1 pitlord for 1 fight. That was made in a time when pitlords were rare. I'd suggest to lower it to 1 credit. Since gladiators win anyway the monster fight seems to me more like a nuisance than an interesting fight. And there's of course Ethendril's good argument that only pitlords could afford a monster.
Beldin 08-11-04, 02:56 PM	@pitlords: there was till now a wait tag on Delayar, so i haven't edited him. I will not be able to edit him before the deadline. I hope you allow me to do that in ~4 hours. thankyou
Ashenai 08-11-04, 03:00 PM	Pairings have been delayed until Thursday, 9PM (see ToK's post). So you have plenty of time :)
Pitlords 08-11-04, 03:09 PM	Originally posted by Beldin @pitlords: there was till now a wait tag on Delayar, so i haven't edited him. I will not be able to edit him before the deadline. I hope you allow me to do that in ~4 hours. thankyou Once the fight is completed Beldin, you are free to edit your character even though it has aWait tagged on it. Sometimes it takes a day or so to update all the changes. But you have until thursday 9pm gmt anyhow, so knock yourself out. Also, the roster has been (hopefully) fully updated. Please ensure that your character(s) are there. If there is a pc not on the roster, that i missed, please PM the Pitlords account with the name (preferably the url link). -ToK
Magagumo 08-11-04, 03:39 PM	Explanation for absence given on fight thread @Cat Thx for not auto-loosing Bruno- I had some killer tactics that might have worked from what I was seeing... I guess I'll use them again sometime (rematch someday Cellar? Sorry I couldn't give you a tough fight :() Until I have my own source of internet, consider me inactive. That is all.
MotherBast 08-11-04, 04:34 PM	I deleted Bro Ken. As cool as the concept is, I just will not have time for more than my 3 active 13s. If anybody else wants to give the build a go, I assure you you will go 5-0 at least without to much effort, except for all the fights you have to run for monster fights.
Battousai2005 08-11-04, 04:43 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Allow me to venture a guess... You are a Wolf's Rain Fan. Yep. Dude, just look at my characters. Japanese names on half. Anime nut here!!! Wait til ya see my next anime-ish concept. rather fun one. Ever played Tales of Symphonia?
Druid Roxors 08-11-04, 06:13 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Yep. Dude, just look at my characters. Japanese names on half. Anime nut here!!! Wait til ya see my next anime-ish concept. rather fun one. Ever played Tales of Symphonia? Heh, I knew it! :D When I read about Rain I was on my computer hearing the Tsume Theme, such a coincidence. I love Wolves Rain but lately I havn't have the time to get into the anime fandom. I do hope you are not watching the English Cartoon-Network Episodes :P Heard of the game, never played it tho.
MotherBast 08-11-04, 07:18 PM	You know, everyone seems to forget that Candessa's last name is RAIN. She was the first Rain in the Arena, since then, this new Rain makes the 3rd, there was a Dragon Rain, belonging to Fluiddragon I belive. So, no, she wont be doing any flirting with the new "rain", as hes either kin to her, or just a big enough fan to have stolen her name. Disclamer: Please not the above post was writen with humorus intent, no insult intended. Except to Druid. I insult thee thrice fold for speaking badly of Cartoon-Network... If they would only stop with the DBZ crap, and focus on the anime thats actually good, then Toonamie would be great. Adult swim is the best hour on TV right after Buffy and the world series of poker. (my favorit anime shows, Cowboy Bebop, and Cool Devices.... that second one might be a little obscure to the younger crowd.)
Ashenai 08-11-04, 07:31 PM	(my favorit anime shows, Cowboy Bebop, and Cool Devices.... that second one might be a little obscure to the younger crowd.) *spit-take* I should hope so... :twitch:
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-04, 07:47 PM	I don't watch TV. Seriously. I haven't owned a T.V. in nearly 10 years so so. -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-11-04, 08:13 PM	Maybe thats why you look so disturbed... :twitch: http://boards1.wizards.com/images/avatars/Magic-Biorhythm.jpg :D
Druid Roxors 08-11-04, 08:28 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast You know, everyone seems to forget that Candessa's last name is RAIN. She was the first Rain in the Arena, since then, this new Rain makes the 3rd, there was a Dragon Rain, belonging to Fluiddragon I belive. So, no, she wont be doing any flirting with the new "rain", as hes either kin to her, or just a big enough fan to have stolen her name. Disclamer: Please not the above post was writen with humorus intent, no insult intended. Except to Druid. I insult thee thrice fold for speaking badly of Cartoon-Network... If they would only stop with the DBZ crap, and focus on the anime thats actually good, then Toonamie would be great. Adult swim is the best hour on TV right after Buffy and the world series of poker. (my favorit anime shows, Cowboy Bebop, and Cool Devices.... that second one might be a little obscure to the younger crowd.) What!? I never said Cartoon Network Sucked... I said American Translation of Anime Cartoons sucks. And it does, and I feel bad for you Americans. If you are a really hardcore anime fan buy the DVDs with subtitles!
Sindorin 08-11-04, 10:06 PM	Thiror Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4172514#post4172514) is ready for pairin's this week. I would like to p'lord one fight to accomodate both characters. Thanks!
Caterane 08-12-04, 11:01 AM	@all: Following the cover discussion we had, here's a little tool that comes in very handy when pitlording fights. The Cover Simulator (http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/coco/start.html) It is especially written for the Core Coliseum. Check it out and give me some feedback. I'll add it to the roster. Cat
Druid Roxors 08-12-04, 11:14 AM	Simple, yet Effective. Give my thanks to your pitlord Cat, this tool will definately come in handy. Now a few things to consider about this and improved cover: 1. Cover only counts if the attacker is farther away from cover than the defendant. In other words, an attacker with a creature directly infront of him trying to shoot a somebody like this: ooooo <--- Attacker ooooo <--- Retarded Bystander ooooo ooooo <--- Target Is NOT penalized by Cover Just to make sure that distinction is made on the FAQ 2. Since there are 4 different spots from which to judge LoS then we could consider that if 2 or more lines cross through cover after choosing the corner that best fits the attacker, that target is using Improved Cover. What do you think? BTW, check your pm box Cat* Edit: Clarifying
Druid Roxors 08-12-04, 11:56 AM	@ Pitlords: Demon Lord Themmez has been declared inactive for the current pairings and probably for the next few weeks. I prefer him to have a grand introduction :) @ Kerlanrayne: Sorry, you'r alone :(
Ashenai 08-12-04, 12:33 PM	Awesome tool! And, after some poking around with it, I agree with Druid Roxors. If 2 lines cross through cover (after the attackr chooses his corner), the defender should have imp. cover.
Druid Roxors 08-12-04, 12:36 PM	Question: If a person is using Synesthete and is subject to "blindness/deafness" he can see normally right? Good, what if you blind/deafen the creature again? Do you blind/deafen its skin? The spell description says that they work just like normal senses, my guess would be "yes"
Moherajikuyx 08-12-04, 12:44 PM	Hee hee, "retarded bystander" I like that :devil:
Ashenai 08-12-04, 12:54 PM	Druid Roxors: I'd have to say no. Based on the power description: If you are feeling light by absorbing ambient light onto your skin, you have your normal visual abilities (except for darkvision), even if your eyes are closed or you are blinded. (emphasis mine) The Blindness spell causes you to become blinded. Synesthete doesn't negate that in any way; it simply allows you to see while blinded. Casting another Blindness on the target won't help with that, just as casting another Hold Person on someone affected by Freedom of Movement won't.
Druid Roxors 08-12-04, 12:55 PM	Hey, would you stay in the line of fire while just being a bystander? Hell no!! He must be retarded :P
Druid Roxors 08-12-04, 12:57 PM	Originally posted by Ashenai Druid Roxors: I'd have to say no. Based on the power description: The Blindness spell causes you to become blinded. Synesthete doesn't negate that in any way; it simply allows you to see while blinded. Casting another Blindness on the target won't help with that, just as casting another Hold Person on someone affected by Freedom of Movement won't. Well, I was guessing that "blind" meaned Eye-Blind. It doesn't say anything about skin-blind... Anyways, I'm just mad because a level 1 power/tatoo can negate blindness or deafness in any character for mere 50 gp. IMHO, it is outrageous.
SnarkHunter 08-12-04, 04:08 PM	Of course Synsethate can be dispelled while Bliindness cannot. In other news I accepted my nomination to senate.
Druid Roxors 08-12-04, 04:12 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Of course Synsethate can be dispelled while Bliindness cannot. In other news I accepted my nomination to senate. Why not? It is a "permanent" duration spell. Of course it can be dispelled.
Jindl 08-12-04, 04:16 PM	@Pitlords - Well, I just realized that it was 9:14 GMT (not 8:14 GMT as I thought). So both Aku and Jindl were edited late. Since both levels are even, you can let whoever rolls out decide if they want to fight against them, or not. Sorry about that. They would have been edited earlier but RL concerns have kept me extremely busy today. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 08-12-04, 04:21 PM	Jindl, the boards went offline for 3 hours and just returned. I don't think this would be much of a problem
Jindl 08-12-04, 04:28 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Jindl, the boards went offline for 3 hours and just returned. I don't think this would be much of a problem Good. I didn't know they were down. RL has priority, you know? -Jindl
Magagumo 08-12-04, 04:47 PM	Hoorah!! Internet is back, and I may have just succeeded in not having my semester classes canceled due to late payment :rolleyes: :rolleyes: In other news, I accepted my nomination, and I am just about to run Rhoar v. Zephin. I look forward to having some of my chars fight again next week, and perhaps having Bruno actually fight with tactics ;) @Jindl I have decided to approve your tactic, based on a small discovery in MoP regarding Elemental PLane of Air... if you don't understand what I'm talking about, don't worry :-P
Ender the Xenocide 08-12-04, 05:19 PM	While looking through the psionic part of the SRD, I noticed that at 10th level a metamind gets font of power, which once a day for 1 minute they have an inexhaustable amount of power points. An Elan gains resiliance, which for every power point they spend, damage from an attack is reduced by 2. With this combination, a psion would be immune to damage. I was just wondering if anyone else noticed this combo...
Druid Roxors 08-12-04, 05:30 PM	Completely immune? Death effects act normally and the Elan can only spend as many powerpoints per round as a psion can (right?) thats = to HD
Ender the Xenocide 08-12-04, 05:39 PM	I'm not sure about that, since today was the first time I've every looked at psioncs. The character would probably beat any non caster/non sneaker, but casting at only psion level 10 at 15 level is pretty weak...
Ashenai 08-12-04, 06:00 PM	While looking through the psionic part of the SRD, I noticed that at 10th level a metamind gets font of power, which once a day for 1 minute they have an inexhaustable amount of power points. An Elan gains resiliance, which for every power point they spend, damage from an attack is reduced by 2. With this combination, a psion would be immune to damage. I was just wondering if anyone else noticed this combo... This won't work. The Metamind does not get an inexhaustible supply of power points; what he can do is manifest powers for free. Since the Elan racial ability is not a power, it is in no way affected by this ability.
Magagumo 08-12-04, 06:05 PM	Rhoar and Zephin ebiong posted. I don't think there's too much room for debate, its fairly cut and dry and rules for "self as missile" can be found under Elemental Plane of Air listings.
SnarkHunter 08-12-04, 06:05 PM	@Druid: Ah you are correct of course, I'd confused it with a bestow curse momentarily. @Ash: Agreed. @Druid: Its not a per round limit but a per manifestation. Again since an Elan's racial ability is not a manifestation I don't think there is anything that prevents them from using every PP they have in preventing a rounds worth of damage. They'll be in trouble the following round though :).
MotherBast 08-12-04, 06:19 PM	Jindl: That was one of the most creative, and funny, tactics I have ever seen. Using yourself as a human cannonball..... thats great. Can't wait untill people start reading actions "Move over if Roar starts to fall from the sky twords me." Mad props dude.
Myrridin 08-12-04, 06:20 PM	Huh, I didn't know that you could use DD like that. Very creative tactic I must say. And man, I get screwed every time with Enervation. :P Always with the -1 level, never the -4 levels. :)
Magagumo 08-12-04, 06:29 PM	I hear you on the enervations, MYr. Question, are pairings done yet? and if not, would it be terrible if I prepped a few chars for this week? (I know its after the delay, but I promise to only activate Tori, Ban, and Crest w/o purchases, and I would need to make Bruno's spell selection a bit more general). Let me know if this would be alright :)
Caterane 08-12-04, 06:44 PM	Rhoar can't use his dimension door ability since we are not on a shifting plane. We discussed this back then and thought Jindl came to reason when he didn't answer. We should've known better. "You have the supernatural ability to use the evershifting natures of planes such as Limbo and the Plane of Shadow to travel faster." Limbo does not border on the Material Plane nor can you see into the Material Plane from Limbo so you cannot use the nature of this plane on the Material Plane. Simple planar theories that proof I'm right if common sense is not enough. "You instinctively anticipate shifts in the reality of the plane" There are no shifts on the Material Plane nor are there any shifts reaching out to the Material Plane. Limbo is far far away!
Tellish_of_Ket 08-12-04, 06:46 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo I hear you on the enervations, MYr. Question, are pairings done yet? and if not, would it be terrible if I prepped a few chars for this week? (I know its after the delay, but I promise to only activate Tori, Ban, and Crest w/o purchases, and I would need to make Bruno's spell selection a bit more general). Let me know if this would be alright :) Go ahead. I'll let people edit a few more hours. All this up/down board stuff really disrupts a persons ability to get ready. When i post to stop editing, that will be the marker. -ToK
Ethendril 08-12-04, 06:48 PM	Very funny descriptions in that fight, Mag. Nice work.
Caterane 08-12-04, 07:32 PM	Tellish, I request you as my pitlord for both Harvesters (only if I don't fight Kelek of course)
Druid Roxors 08-12-04, 07:46 PM	@ Caterane: Actually, I believe the consensus was that he Could use his DD ability while on the Material Plane. Edit: Here, let me dig it out for you: Discussion Thread, Check link to other Thread with official response (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140889&highlight=Shifting+Planar)
Tellish_of_Ket 08-12-04, 08:33 PM	STOP EDITING I'm on my way to the pitlords account to do the pairings. Please no more editing. -ToK
Caterane 08-12-04, 08:34 PM	THanks Druid for confirming my argument with this link. All who spoke for the DD being possible based their opinion on Limbo being adjectant to the Prime Material but here the last quote after which the discussion ended: Umm, Limbo isn't coexistent with the Material Plane. The Astral, Ethereal and Shadow Planes are. I think that ends ours aswell. We should also mention that dimension door at will is worth 112000 gp which is a bit much don't you agree? And where are the official answers you talked about??? LOL
Druid Roxors 08-12-04, 08:47 PM	You are not a patient or deep reader eh? Here, check this out: This reply to an inquisitive email of mine, straight from the man himself Andy Collins, should put the debate on the DD ability to rest right now. "It seems pretty clear to me that shifting works anywhere, just as all the other mastery powers do. (The power may come from unstable planes, but the Horizon walker can use it anywhere.)" That's it folks. Blame or cheer, it is settled.Actually, there is a post by a certain "Tellish of ket" just 2 spaces down from where I took this :P. Oh and Jindl is the second post I believe.
Druid Roxors 08-12-04, 10:22 PM	Fun fact of the day! 1. Go to Google (http://google.com/) 2. Write "Core Coliseum" 3. "I'm Feeling Lucky" :eek: [This didn't happen until very recently, this week, in fact. In the past, it would take you to the "Games: Message boards" menu] Ninja NETSPIDERS!!
Kaigan 08-13-04, 12:40 AM	Just wondering again if you noticed my new character Aromal? He was put on the roster, but he doesn't seem to have a fight. And he wasn't rolled out or anything SO just was wondering what was up.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-13-04, 02:31 AM	Just wondering again if you noticed my new character Aromal? He was put on the roster, but he doesn't seem to have a fight. And he wasn't rolled out or anything SO just was wondering what was up. Oops. I had Brennan Allison listed twice. You are fighting Arlie Korinthion. -ToK
Beldin 08-13-04, 05:32 AM	Ah, I like these board admins. When I wanted to save the edits (SPELLS!!!!!, items and scrolls) of Delayar yesterday I got this funny screen which told me "boards are down". :behold: Unfortunatly I was not able to edit him again.
Myrridin 08-13-04, 09:28 AM	Hey, anyway that Sildaris can *not* fight Mr.Big twice in a row? That'd be great, thanks. As we already know how a sneak build fares against Mr.Big at these levels.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-13-04, 09:45 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Hey, anyway that Sildaris can *not* fight Mr.Big twice in a row? That'd be great, thanks. As we already know how a sneak build fares against Mr.Big at these levels. You are now fighting Ivan. -ToK
Myrridin 08-13-04, 09:51 AM	Thanks Tellish.
LLMadCow 08-13-04, 10:36 PM	Is there anyone willing to take my fight this week? I was hoping to be EVEN, with no fights since I am only playing Mr. Big. Also, if this does happen, I would appreciate it if the PitLords would not apply a second negative credit, since they had not take one away for the fight anyway. I just have a very hectic 3 weeks coming up at work and home and do not want to over stretch myself.
barrel_master 08-14-04, 12:30 AM	Wow, I just got off a lot of travel... hope to participate again... looks like there were rule changes. I"LL check them out.
KerlanRayne 08-14-04, 04:52 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow Is there anyone willing to take my fight this week? I was hoping to be EVEN, with no fights since I am only playing Mr. Big. Also, if this does happen, I would appreciate it if the PitLords would not apply a second negative credit, since they had not take one away for the fight anyway. I think Kazzaroth Pan'theon might take the fight. KerlanRayne
MotherBast 08-14-04, 06:47 PM	Tair vs. Death Dealer is posted. Short, dull, and completly without intrest for anyone not involved, though if you have ever thought about using Invis Purge, you might check out the red ink in both fighter's tactics on the proper use of the spell.
Caterane 08-15-04, 03:01 AM	Jindl, Magagumo and everyone else that still hasn't linked his fights: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do it until next week. This is so long a rule now. One cannot properly audit your character, nor can one check past tactics. So please do this before next wednesday. @Aramil Dunskar: I'll run your fight in 2 hours with or without tactics. I have no time to run it tomorow.
Moherajikuyx 08-15-04, 07:58 AM	Hi people! After a week of considering a lot of opinions gathered on my proposal's thread and on this garganthuan dinosaur of a tavern thread, I completed my proposal and I now feel it's rather mature. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4194175#post4194175 - You liked it: do you still like it? - You didn't: do you, now? Or why you don't? (I did quite an analysis of the debated points) Given that it raised quite some support, it could be one of the first new senate works. Let's see! Note: I'm particularly surprised that no one talked about its effect on druids.............................. :angel: Newbies: since it's more or less 6 months that I don't participate, many of you didn't have a chance to talk with me yet. Please, know that my banner is the ease-the-newcomer, and that I value much more your opinion than the ones of the old rumbling mummies in this board! :D
MotherBast 08-15-04, 12:05 PM	Cuul vs. Mr. Big is posted. Big damage in this fight.
Magagumo 08-15-04, 01:38 PM	@Cat I suppose you're referencing Bruno here? (Since Zorander is retired and I'm pretty sure I'm covered with Tori, Ban, and Crest). If so, I suppose I will hop on that today.. been delaying till he was woken up, and I guess that's happened now :embarrass
Magagumo 08-15-04, 04:20 PM	Aramil was not supposed to be involved in the Arena this week (as several have mentioned). While not an Elder, I recommend that whomever is running one of his chars not run the fight, but still recieve a credit for it [If we want, we can delay it to next week, or we can possible re-assign the fights to other chars on the lists?] I will gladly take one or more of Aramil's fights, so he can enjoy his break [and not leave us]. So, whomever had characters under Aramil, get tactics to me today or tomorrow (pref today) and I will glady run your fights.
Sindorin 08-15-04, 04:39 PM	I'm confused as to who to send these tactics to... so far I've seen Caterane, Ashenai, and Magagumo say they'll take it. Who's got the ball, gentlemen?
Magagumo 08-15-04, 05:08 PM	As I presume Cat and Ash are still working on their own assigned fights this week, I will take the ball, Sindorin. Trust me, I'm sitting in my room doing nothing, so please give me something to do :) Edit: Since Cat's other fight involved Aramil's character, why don't we just sub ToK and roll8dn's fight in for him? That way, credit's are maintained, and we all end up relatively happy. @Ender I'll need your tactics as well, me boyo :)
Sindorin 08-15-04, 05:44 PM	okay, i didn't save them so I will have to rewrite them. I know the basic concept, so it will be a synch. or cinch. or sinch. i don't have any idea how to spell that. argh.
Caterane 08-15-04, 06:00 PM	I have finished my last fight The Burden (Jaguaro vs Quarion) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4196224#post4196224) Enjoy. @LLMAdCow: Send me tactics and I take over your fight @Mag: If you have nothing to do why don't you link your fights? :)
Sindorin 08-15-04, 06:10 PM	@magagumo Tactics re-sent to your email. THANK YOU and have fun!
Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon 08-15-04, 06:52 PM	[@Aramil Dunskar: I won't use any ressources. For future: Tactics due saturday] Caterane, I must say that I am rather dumbfounded as to why you are felt the need to state that? As has been stated by Aramil in two places he was not here, he requested not to be paired, he just made a post after he got back today stating that he was bewildered why you paired him and put him to Pitlord matches, and Mag has four times commented about such things. So why then did you post that Aramil, who has been well established many times over as not haivng been here saturday, that tactics are due saturday? Let alone post the battle at all since it seems that the very pairing mistake fell upon the Administration, and yet Aramil is paying for it with a loss.
LLMadCow 08-15-04, 07:51 PM	Originally posted by Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon Caterane, I must say that I am rather dumbfounded as to why you are felt the need to state that? As has been stated by Aramil in two places he was not here, he requested not to be paired, he just made a post after he got back today stating that he was bewildered why you paired him and put him to Pitlord matches, and Mag has four times commented about such things. So why then did you post that Aramil, who has been well established many times over as not haivng been here saturday, that tactics are due saturday? Let alone post the battle at all since it seems that the very pairing mistake fell upon the Administration, and yet Aramil is paying for it with a loss. Okay, I understand both sides of this arguement, but not once did I ever see Aramil post "I sent a PM to the PitLords account..." and this is a VERY IMPORTANT fact. Time and again, the GMs have stated that if there is something important about your character status or your status as a player/pitlord, then you MUST send a PM to the joint account. This is THE ONLY way to ensure that your desires will be met. I have made this mistake before and such is life..... Hang in there, live and learn. There is no reason for Aramil to leave over this, but he also needs to be understanding of how hectic the boards are at times.
Battousai2005 08-15-04, 08:23 PM	Hmm, after looking at the anime discussion, especially LL's, I might just change Rain's name. Something deep, complex, and involving his inner soul... Oh, oh, I know!!! Wind!!!:D :D :D I think Armanithil will be saying goodbye to the arena. He was a nice concept, but Kaigan (The coward that he is) always plays the archer. As such, I really don't know how to play one.
LLMadCow 08-15-04, 10:39 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Hmm, after looking at the anime discussion, especially LL's ... Huh? Was I asleep? Mind you, I love anime, and I love the many varied naming conventions, but when did this occur? Was it far back, or was I possibly under the influence of a Confusion spell...? Some of the Best Anime: Trigun, Neon Genesis Evangelion, The Last Exile, Ghost in the Shell, Castle in the sky, Princess Mononoke and Kiki's Delivery Service. Names Behind The Name (http://www.behindthename.com/) is one of the most comprehensive sites for finding names with a variety of meanings and origins. It is a source I have used on many occassions. If you are real creative, you might even combine names or add prefixes and/or suffixes. Just some creativity tips...
Sindorin 08-15-04, 11:23 PM	I say start an anime thread...
Jindl 08-15-04, 11:26 PM	Well, if Samurai Jack counts as an anime, then Aku has to get credit as the first anime gladiator. -Jindl
LLMadCow 08-15-04, 11:42 PM	Quoted from Sindorin's Sig The Core Coliseum, Where people nitpick everything you say until you feel worthless. @Sindorin - It makes me sad, if you honestly feel that way. I look at the CoCo as a place of intense arguements and discussions. This just means sometimes you get to be the idiot, and at other times you get to be the idiot savant. Have no worries - pick someone in the arena to pay VERY close attention to and make them feel worthless when the chance arises. Pick me if you want, since I guarantee you that I am far from perfect and bound to do something stupid sooner or later. :)
Sindorin 08-16-04, 12:22 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow @Sindorin - It makes me sad, if you honestly feel that way. I look at the CoCo as a place of intense arguements and discussions. This just means sometimes you get to be the idiot, and at other times you get to be the idiot savant. Have no worries - pick someone in the arena to pay VERY close attention to and make them feel worthless when the chance arises. Pick me if you want, since I guarantee you that I am far form perfect and bound to do something stupid sooner or later. :) I would NEVER do that to ANYONE on here. Fact is, this place is HARDLY a place for intense arguments, it has become a place where people who think they know everything get to flaunt it at people who are trying to have fun, and believe me, when someone calls a fight with their character that you pitlord an autoloss, it hurts. I've been trying as hard as I can to enjoy myself on here, I've been posting more roleplay than I ever thought I would, and I could have made that fight i ran so much easier for myself by not conforming to the online dice roller, but no, i wanted to do it. It is my choice to be here, my choice to have fun, and I will feel violated when that right to fun gets taken away. I busted my butt and produced what I thought was a well-run, organized fight, reading up on the rules for sundering/grappling/etc, and then once it's posted it gets called a jaw-dropping autoloss. I felt like leaving last week, but this week I just feel like I'm being chased away. I love how everyone can miss Aramil's message but they have time to go over their fights and write up how their character should have killed the opponent. Anyway, for the know-it-all's, you don't have to worry about me pitlording your fights anymore.
Magagumo 08-16-04, 12:23 AM	Heck, people seem to think I should be an Elder, and I manage to say something foolish nearly every other day :D (see Psionic Egale's) *Hmm, I wonder if I should be saying this while the voting is still going on..* **Silence! You typing what you're thinking!! Just smile and try to look smart...** :D :cool: :D Edit: Props on your RPing though, Sindorin. (One of the finer bios I've read- the riddle is an exceptionally nice touch).
LLMadCow 08-16-04, 12:52 AM	Originally posted by Sindorin Anyway, for the know-it-all's, you don't have to worry about me pitlording your fights anymore. Man, don't let them take away your fun. I am all about the Role Play aspect of the game and love the character development...
Ashenai 08-16-04, 02:52 AM	Dude, you have to take it in stride. All of us, really, all of us have done really mind-blowingly stupid things at some point, and I guess we don't always choose the most diplomatic way to tell someone that it was his turn to make a boo-boo. Still, I don't think anybody meant to disrespect you. And I'm pretty certain that no one wants you to leave. Come on, it's all in good fun. :cool:
Druid Roxors 08-16-04, 03:44 AM	The fight Ebelin Barnahdy Vs Candessa Rain (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4198992#post4198992) has been posted. Please direct any and all comments to this week's Comments and Concerns (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=292091)Thread
cellardweller 08-16-04, 03:51 AM	Anyone else notice this? Bubo (neutral good): Rider - paladin Mount - psionic giant owl Shiaan (neutral evil): Rider - blackguard Mount - psionic giant eagle Maybe I should rename Shiaan to Bizzaro-Bubo :P
Ashenai 08-16-04, 03:57 AM	:OMG! Druid Roxors, that map is... a work of art. How did you make those arrows?
Beldin 08-16-04, 06:50 AM	a short question for my fight (hurtz vs sven) situation( round 2!): sven polimorphed himself and his familiar into a roper. The familiar has hit him with 5 strands and dragged Hurtz diretly in front of it. Hurtz has stunned the polimorphed familiar. Is he still held by the familiar-roper's strands? Thank for a quick answer!
Sindorin 08-16-04, 07:34 AM	Originally posted by Ashenai Dude, you have to take it in stride. All of us, really, all of us have done really mind-blowingly stupid things at some point, and I guess we don't always choose the most diplomatic way to tell someone that it was his turn to make a boo-boo. Still, I don't think anybody meant to disrespect you. And I'm pretty certain that no one wants you to leave. Come on, it's all in good fun. :cool: Re: Thanks, and I don't plan on leaving. @all - I am not mad at anyone over this, I'm mostly just mad at myself for not knowing it well enough. I'll get over it.
Druid Roxors 08-16-04, 09:50 AM	Originally posted by Ashenai :OMG! Druid Roxors, that map is... a work of art. How did you make those arrows? HA! its my secret! nobody will ever know that I use microsoft word... :eek: oops :D
Ashenai 08-16-04, 10:06 AM	Originally posted by Beldin a short question for my fight (hurtz vs sven) situation( round 2!): sven polimorphed himself and his familiar into a roper. The familiar has hit him with 5 strands and dragged Hurtz diretly in front of it. Hurtz has stunned the polimorphed familiar. Is he still held by the familiar-roper's strands? Thank for a quick answer! I don't think there's a specific rule for this, but since a stunned character drops everything, I would rule that he also lets go any grappled opponents. I could be wrong, though.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-16-04, 10:24 AM	I would concurr with Ash, :D :D -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-16-04, 10:56 AM	Am I right to believe that you cannot bring your Cohort's Cohort to battle? Right?
Beldin 08-16-04, 11:03 AM	I believe you can, when Johan brought his cohorts dire bat into battle vs Harvester II. no one complained.
Myrridin 08-16-04, 11:06 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Am I right to believe that you cannot bring your Cohort's Cohort to battle? Right? That's correct. You are supposed to only have 1 ally in the arena. That includes any allies that your cohort gets. Otherwise you'll see a domino effect. My 12th level Sorcerer gets a 10th level paladin, who gets an 8th level Cleric, who gets a 6th level Ranger. That's just my cohort's, cohort's, cohort's, cohort with me in battle. It gets even worse when you bring in a Thrallherd. :)
Jindl 08-16-04, 11:08 AM	Originally posted by Ashenai Dude, you have to take it in stride. All of us, really, all of us have done really mind-blowingly stupid things at some point, and I guess we don't always choose the most diplomatic way to tell someone that it was his turn to make a boo-boo. Still, I don't think anybody meant to disrespect you. And I'm pretty certain that no one wants you to leave. Come on, it's all in good fun. :cool: Yeah, talking about mind-blowingly stupid things reminds me of the time I allowed a gladiator to CDG a stunned opponent. And Cat has never let me forget it (even mentioning it this week in a fight he ran), even though that was almost a year ago. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 08-16-04, 11:08 AM	Yeah, I know. Just that some characters, like Johan, list their cohort's Companion. Just making sure that it will never be used :)
Jindl 08-16-04, 11:17 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Am I right to believe that you cannot bring your Cohort's Cohort to battle? Right? You are allowed to bring one ally into the arena. That ally could be your Cohort. It could be your Cohort's animal companion. It could even be your cohort's cohort. This is because any ally of your cohort is also a possible ally of your gladiator. But you cannot bring both your cohort and his animal companion. Understand? -Jindl
Druid Roxors 08-16-04, 11:33 AM	Originally posted by Jindl You are allowed to bring one ally into the arena. That ally could be your Cohort. It could be your Cohort's animal companion. It could even be your cohort's cohort. This is because any ally of your cohort is also a possible ally of your gladiator. But you cannot bring both your cohort and his animal companion. Understand? -Jindl Yeah, but it is not very probable that you would. A druid is always more powerful than the companion. :)
Ethendril 08-16-04, 11:37 AM	@All: I regret that I will be unable to run the Aku/Professor fight this week because of RL issues over the next couple of days. I was looking forward to this fight, as both gladiators have some great tactics (in my opinion), and it looks to be a very good fight. Is someone willing to take this fight from me? If so, I will forward tactics for both gladiators. @Pitlords: Please put me on the inactive pitlords list for a while.
Jindl 08-16-04, 11:40 AM	@Eth - I don't know how Cat feels about it, but I would rather you just take your time (so you can do a good job) and post it when you can. I was prolly gonna have Aku sit out next week anyway. I can only handle running 3 out of my 4 pcs at a time. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 08-16-04, 12:08 PM	Originally posted by Beldin I believe you can, when Johan brought his cohorts dire bat into battle vs Harvester II. no one complained. Yeah, he did. But his cohort stayed behind. Johan only brought the bat and no other allies. -ToK
Ethendril 08-16-04, 12:36 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Eth - I don't know how Cat feels about it, but I would rather you just take your time (so you can do a good job) and post it when you can. I was prolly gonna have Aku sit out next week anyway. I can only handle running 3 out of my 4 pcs at a time. -Jindl That's fine with me, though if someone wants the fight and can run it today, we may as well keep the wheels turning around here.
LLMadCow 08-16-04, 01:14 PM	Originally posted by Beldin a short question for my fight (hurtz vs sven) situation( round 2!): sven polimorphed himself and his familiar into a roper. The familiar has hit him with 5 strands and dragged Hurtz diretly in front of it. Hurtz has stunned the polimorphed familiar. Is he still held by the familiar-roper's strands? Thank for a quick answer! Here's a nice detailed response with the PHB used to back all aspects of this ruling. Quoted from the PHB, page 313 stunned: A stunned creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). Grappling can be broken down into the four main steps: Attack of Opportunity (Attack action from foe) --> Irrelevant since the grapple is already in progress. Grab (Melee touch attack action) -- > Irrelevant since the grapple is already in progress. Hold (Opposed grapple check as free action) --> Completely relevant. This is an action, and since no actions can be taken, the grapple is ended and the target of the grapple can just slip out of the grasp and ... do whatever. Maintain Grapple (Move, as a free action into targets space) --> Irrelevant since the grapple ends at step 4. I hope that this clears anything up that may have been confusing. I encourage everyone to take a look at the glossary in the PHB, as it has a lot of basic information that comes up in our board discussions all the time.
Jindl 08-16-04, 01:20 PM	Yeah, but a Roper who hits with a strand attack is NOT grappling. The strands work via a powerful adhesive, not a muscular contraction (a.k.a. a hold like in a grapple). The roper doesn't make any grapple checks for this ability to work. So I think the strands would remain attached, even if the roper was stunned. Although a stunned roper certainly wouldn't drag its prey any closer while stunned. -Jindl
Magagumo 08-16-04, 01:31 PM	The roper familiar has been used now??! Damn, that was Bruno's secret tactic vs. Johan *tear* :( (If only I could have demonstrated it first :smirk:)
LLMadCow 08-16-04, 01:56 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Yeah, but a Roper who hits with a strand attack is NOT grappling. The strands work via a powerful adhesive, not a muscular contraction (a.k.a. a hold like in a grapple). The roper doesn't make any grapple checks for this ability to work. So I think the strands would remain attached, even if the roper was stunned. Although a stunned roper certainly wouldn't drag its prey any closer while stunned. -Jindl This brings up an interesting aspect of the Roper and how it works. When stunned, it cannot take any actions. It is not grappling, but uses it's 'Strong, sticky strands', which is, in fact, a combination of STRENGTH and STICKINESS. [Note: The phrase 'strong, sticky strands' is a direct quote from the MM, page 216, Strands [Ex]] Escape Artist Check = DC 23 (Base 15 + 4 Str + 4 Racial) Strength Check = DC 19 (Base 15 + 4 Str) If the Roper is stunned and cannot take any actions, does it lose the STR Bonus towards the DC to break free? Does it lose the racial bonus? If it loses the STR bonus, does it simply drop to DC 15 and DC 19 respectively, or does it drop down to an effectively lower STR modifier? Things to consider....
barrel_master 08-16-04, 02:18 PM	If possible, I'd like to activate octavian again.
LLMadCow 08-16-04, 02:41 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master If possible, I'd like to activate octavian again. Be sure to send a PM to the Pitlords account (http://boards1.wizards.com/private.php?s=&action=newmessage&userid=245524) telling them of your desire to activate Octavian again, otherwise it may get lost in the shuffle.
barrel_master 08-16-04, 02:44 PM	I remember reading a few weeks ago that all spells had to be memorized but the rules still state that only 1/2 the spells should be memed... is this still the case?
LLMadCow 08-16-04, 02:49 PM	Originally posted by barrel_master I remember reading a few weeks ago that all spells had to be memorized but the rules still state that only 1/2 the spells should be memed... is this still the case? Yes, regardless of what the current edition of the rules happens to say, the fact is that ALL spells must be pre-memorized. If you use ICQ or AIM, feel free to IM me at LLMadCow with any further questions on getting started again.
Caterane 08-16-04, 03:29 PM	Originally posted by Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon Caterane, I must say that I am rather dumbfounded as to why you are felt the need to state that? As has been stated by Aramil in two places he was not here, he requested not to be paired, he just made a post after he got back today stating that he was bewildered why you paired him and put him to Pitlord matches, and Mag has four times commented about such things. So why then did you post that Aramil, who has been well established many times over as not haivng been here saturday, that tactics are due saturday? Let alone post the battle at all since it seems that the very pairing mistake fell upon the Administration, and yet Aramil is paying for it with a loss. Tekas, I didn't know Aramil was away. And even if he wrote it, it might have been the case that he wrote a PM to Tellish (this week's pairingsmaker) to tell him that he will be active. I can't know that. All I saw is that he was paired and I am his pitlord. It was a little mistake that was easily corrected. Aramil will suffer no ill effects, nor will Jaguaro who won't be spoiled of her fight (and victory) this week. So there's no need to leave before asking if we will fix it. Besides, believe me when I say that there are a hunnerd things the pairingsmaker has to keep track of so if everyone posts here in the Tavern it won't be able to be remembered. Always write a PM to the Pitlord account. So don't blame Tellish for not seeing Aramil's absence post (blame him for pairing him even if he wasn't set ready LOL). Btw, I've mentioned 3 times that I haven't received tactics from Aramil but no one told me that he is away. So apparently it wasn't too obvious to others aswell. Yeah, talking about mind-blowingly stupid things reminds me of the time I allowed a gladiator to CDG a stunned opponent. And Cat has never let me forget it (even mentioning it this week in a fight he ran), even though that was almost a year ago. -Jindl Ha! I'm not in the best starters list because of that :( But seriosly, I'm more making a running gag out of it so don't worry
Magagumo 08-16-04, 03:38 PM	And the gag continues in Bruno's fight record :P Happy B-Day Cat! ;) (Sort of)
Caterane 08-16-04, 04:49 PM	Yeah yeah Mag :mad: Now go and link your fight!! Grrr Suggestion: Check the character sheets of your enemies and steal the links from them. That eases your work. Not having the fights linked will result in a violation if not fixed.
Battousai2005 08-16-04, 05:05 PM	Ok, here is where I stand. I'm none too sure if fights are due today. If so, I'm screwed. Simply put, my computer's internet is shot. I'm posting from a public PC. I have the fight done for the most part. Still, I have it on my home PC. I'm none too sure why, but I can't access any site on wizards from it (or many others for that matter). I don't know what to do!
Tellish_of_Ket 08-16-04, 05:29 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Ok, here is where I stand. I'm none too sure if fights are due today. If so, I'm screwed. Simply put, my computer's internet is shot. I'm posting from a public PC. I have the fight done for the most part. Still, I have it on my home PC. I'm none too sure why, but I can't access any site on wizards from it (or many others for that matter). I don't know what to do! Take your time and get it when you can. This week has been sooooo messed up it's not funny. -ToK :(
Magagumo 08-16-04, 05:34 PM	Gotcha Cat :) Good advice, as I will be running these two fights for a bit (boards are being spotty at the moment). If all goes well, they should be up tonight, and Bruno should be ready tomorrow.
cellardweller 08-16-04, 09:32 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Yeah, but it is not very probable that you would. A druid is always more powerful than the companion. :) Johan uses this exact feature to balance allies. If his opponent has no allies, he enters alone. if he's facing someone with a purchased griffon or something similar George will be used. If his oppontent has a classed companion or one with the shared spells ability then all bets are off and Gabriel fights. I am still undecided as how to handle Harvey's new horse.
SnarkHunter 08-16-04, 09:35 PM	Wow Cellar, thats remarkably generous of you.
cellardweller 08-16-04, 09:43 PM	Its not me doing it - its Johan. Shiaan by comparison will use every scrap of an advantage she can get.
Caterane 08-16-04, 10:12 PM	Originally posted by cellardweller Johan uses this exact feature to balance allies. If his opponent has no allies, he enters alone. if he's facing someone with a purchased griffon or something similar George will be used. If his oppontent has a classed companion or one with the shared spells ability then all bets are off and Gabriel fights. I am still undecided as how to handle Harvey's new horse. You should enter alone. Definately. LOL Edit: Or better, leave Johan at home and enter with the Direbat :D
roll8dn 08-17-04, 12:55 AM	I have a Question(tm). How do I link the exact post of Selvos' fight to his character sheet? I know how to link the page, but not the fight. If anyone could post the manner in which I could do this, I'd qualify as reallllllllllllly greatful. Just replace the brackets [] with parentheses (), and I'll figure it out. Thanks in advance.
Ashenai 08-17-04, 01:05 AM	Selvos' fight ...will look like this: Selvos' fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?postid=4203110#post420311 0)
LLMadCow 08-17-04, 01:23 AM	Originally posted by Ashenai Selvos' fight If you replace "(" with "[" and ")" with "]", you get: Selvos' fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?postid=4203110#post420311 0) Actually for the exact post you need to use... (URL=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=4203110#post4203110)Selvos' Fight(/URL) Whish results in ... Selvos' Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=4203110#post4203110). Take note of the perpage=1 segment. This allows for faster loading of characters and battles without having to load a million other posts. Sorry Ash. :D
Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon 08-17-04, 01:26 AM	Hmm... When are fights due by? Just wondering since mine has yet to be placed.
Ashenai 08-17-04, 01:26 AM	*Bows to LLMadCow's superior vBcode skillz* :bow:
LLMadCow 08-17-04, 01:31 AM	Originally posted by Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon Hmm... When are fights due by? Just wondering since mine has yet to be placed. Fights are normally due by Monday night, however this week there have been some delays and everyone will be kept in the know as to what is happening. There have been some Board issues, some Real Life issues and some internet connection issues. Hang in there and everything will be posted in due time.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-17-04, 01:58 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow Fights are normally due by Monday night, however this week there have been some delays and everyone will be kept in the know as to what is happening. There have been some Board issues, some Real Life issues and some internet connection issues. Hang in there and everything will be posted in due time. As well as some pairing issues. :( -ToK
Beldin 08-17-04, 04:48 AM	@cat"free again! Will kill some of these celestials though!" :thumbsup:
Myrridin 08-17-04, 08:46 AM	Sildaris will be retiring from competition. I'm not having as much fun with him. So I'll be bringing in a new gladiator at 2nd level. Yay for two, 2nd level gladiators.
roll8dn 08-17-04, 11:32 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow Actually for the exact post you need to use... (URL=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=4203110#post4203110)Selvos' Fight(/URL) Whish results in ... Selvos' Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=4203110#post4203110). Take note of the perpage=1 segment. This allows for faster loading of characters and battles without having to load a million other posts. Sorry Ash. :D Thank you very much. Just two more questions to the room at large (rather than at small...): 1.)How do you tell what the post id is? 2.)Do the gladiators get healed after each fight, or do I need to expend a potion of Cure Light on Selvos? Thanks again...
Ashenai 08-17-04, 11:36 AM	1.)How do you tell what the post id is? Hover your mouse over the "edit" button at the bottom of the post (most of the other buttons and links are good, too). 2.)Do the gladiators get healed after each fight, or do I need to expend a potion of Cure Light on Selvos? They are healed, and all negative effects are dispelled/cured/Wished away. EDIT: Hee-hee :P
LLMadCow 08-17-04, 11:41 AM	Originally posted by roll8dn Thank you very much. Just two more questions to the room at large (rather than at small...): 1.)How do you tell what the post id is? 2.)Do the gladiators get healed after each fight, or do I need to expend a potion of Cure Light on Selvos? Thanks again... 1. I like to [Right-Click] the edit button and select the Copy Shortcut option. From there, paste the results anywhere and look at the postid=xxxxxxx portion. The [xxxxxxx] is the post ID. 2. Yes, the gladiators get healed after every fight. LL to the rescue! [EDIT: I'll get you Ashenai! :smirk: ] Is there a :shakefist: icon?
roll8dn 08-17-04, 11:51 AM	Originally posted by LLMadCow 1. I like to [Right-Click] the edit button and select the Copy Shortcut option. From there, paste the results anywhere and look at the postid=xxxxxxx portion. The [xxxxxxx] is the post ID. 2. Yes, the gladiators get healed after every fight. LL to the rescue! [EDIT: I'll get you Ashenai! :smirk:] Is there a :shakesfist: icon? Thank you very, very much. The lot of yous (to quote an old friend of mine) be good guys. Foolishly, though, folks, you really are the most helpful gaming group I've run into. Thank you, thankyouverymuch.
LLMadCow 08-17-04, 11:58 AM	Originally posted by Ashenai EDIT: Hee-hee :P Yes, but look at who's reply he quoted! I WIN, I WIN! :rofl: PS - Scrolls. :P
Caterane 08-17-04, 12:08 PM	How can someone bring an antimagic field down?
Druid Roxors 08-17-04, 12:29 PM	You can only bring down AMF with a Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Yeah, sux... :(
LLMadCow 08-17-04, 12:30 PM	Originally posted by Caterane How can someone bring an antimagic field down? Short of a wish, I don't think you can bring it down. What you can do is go the route of counterspelling it... That ould be your best bet.
Druid Roxors 08-17-04, 12:45 PM	Since I don't have an arcane caster at high levels, I will reveal the secret as to how do you defeat AMS with 100% efectivity. Cast ForceCage upon the creature who is affected. He will have to forcefully dismiss it in order to escape. Bling! :cool:
Tellish_of_Ket 08-17-04, 01:36 PM	Darn Druid. Why you give a way my secrets? lol I was gonna forcecage the first AM guy in the field. Also i have another VERY neat trick. That one will remain secret. -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-17-04, 01:37 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Darn Druid. Why you give a way my secrets? lol I was gonna forcecage the first AM guy in the field. Also i have another VERY neat trick. That one will remain secret. -ToK LOL Oops. You should have told me not to reveal your secret. Of course you would have had to tell it to me first. :P
LLMadCow 08-17-04, 01:58 PM	@All - I have an idea that would help make the fights more interesting. My proposal: I would like to have some kind of chronological order to the fights and then post the story/description of the fights in a seperate thread. My idea is to have a thread of nothing but stories. For the fights with no stories, I am offering to write a story that incorperates the characters ackgrounds and affiliations, where applicable, and for the rest, just write a story. For the fights that already have stories, I would just copy the story and post it in this thread. At the end of the fights week, the thread would be closed for editing and people could have a nice week of fights to read. My idea is to further expand the colorful world of gladius and get interesting characters out there for everyone to read. It would be a weekly collection of short stories that chronicle all of the fights... I just want to know what people think of this idea. I would try it out for a week and get people's input as to whether or not they liked it and go from there. So,please consider this and let me know what you think!
Battousai2005 08-17-04, 02:20 PM	My internet works and Aromal vs. Arlie is up.
Battousai2005 08-17-04, 02:20 PM	My internet works and Aromal vs. Arlie is up.
Jindl 08-17-04, 02:24 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 My internet works and Aromal vs. Arlie is up. Hey Batt, Real quick: Inflict Wounds spells allow a Will save for half damage. -Jindl
Battousai2005 08-17-04, 03:11 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Hey Batt, Real quick: Inflict Wounds spells allow a Will save for half damage. -Jindl Oh, forgot that. Quick roll: Uh, no. The whole bane spell kinda screwed him. Missed by one. Hmmm. 5. I doubt it.
Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon 08-17-04, 03:33 PM	*dances* Meow...my first battle a win. Fun. ;p Anyways...*scanning through rules things* Nope, i didn't know there was an "inactivity" rule. Hmm...and I couldn't cast Bane while before the Tower Shield? I rather thought I could since I didn't need to target and thus didn't need to see my opponent...oh well. So a level up and some gold. How much gold? *is trying to find it* 1,700?
Caterane 08-17-04, 04:01 PM	Question: How does the Defending Ability for weapons work? It stacks with all other Ac boni but it's still not clear what kind of Ac. Does it apply to touch and flatfooted Ac? Does it apply when I don't attack? Do I have to hold the weapon to benefit from the Ac? Do multiple defending boni stack (like from 2 weapons)?
Magagumo 08-17-04, 04:39 PM	Originally posted by LLMadCow Is there a :shakefist: icon? Sadly no *tear*, but when that day comes, oh such a sweet day it will be.... Truly, a reckoning... :)
Beldin 08-17-04, 05:02 PM	@Tekas: you do not have to repost your charackter, just edit it
LLMadCow 08-17-04, 05:07 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Question: How does the Defending Ability for weapons work? It stacks with all other Ac boni but it's still not clear what kind of Ac. Originally from the SRD 3.5 and DMG, page 224 Defending: A defending weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the sword’s enhancement bonus to his AC as a bonus that stacks with all others. As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon’s enhancement bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon, and the effect to AC lasts until his next turn. Moderate abjuration; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, shield or shield of faith; Price +1 bonus. It says stacks with all others, and other than that is considered a unnamed bonus. Originally posted by Caterane Does it apply to touch and flatfooted Ac? It says stacks with all others, and thus applies to touch. It also says the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon’s enhancement bonus at the start of his turn and thus when caught flatfooted your turn has not yet started. However, if some event or effect causes you to become flatfooted in between rounds, the bonus still carries over from the previous round due to the statment and the effect to AC lasts until his next turn. Originally posted by Caterane Does it apply when I don't attack? This is iffy. I would say yes, however the description says before using the weapon and may imply that the bonus can only be used if you are also fighting with the weapon. Originally posted by Caterane Do I have to hold the weapon to benefit from the Ac? Yes. The description says allows the wielder, as opposed to allows the owner/wearer. Originally posted by Caterane Do multiple defending boni stack (like from 2 weapons)? Yes, so long as you are wielding both weapons. For added fun, get a +4/+4 Defending Quarterstaff (200,600gp) for a nice +8AC in a pinch!
Magagumo 08-17-04, 05:07 PM	@ Ash If you're still interested, friend, I'd be happy to have you make and post a char for BAnewarrens. No promises yet, but Druid hasn't hopped on making a character, and I'd like to start tomorrow if possible. I'm nto kicking Druid out, but if you have the spare time, I'd appreciate the alternatvives being before me. @roll8dn I've decided to make it 5 characters off the bat, so you're in. Druid or Ash will liekly be taking the 5th slot.
Jindl 08-17-04, 05:08 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Question: How does the Defending Ability for weapons work? It stacks with all other Ac boni but it's still not clear what kind of Ac. Does it apply to touch and flatfooted Ac? Does it apply when I don't attack? Do I have to hold the weapon to benefit from the Ac? Do multiple defending boni stack (like from 2 weapons)? It is an unnamed bonus to AC. It applies to both touch and flatfooted (just like a deflection bonus). You must wield the weapon to gain the benefit. As an unnamed bonus, it would stack with a similar bonus from another source. -Jindl
LLMadCow 08-17-04, 05:13 PM	Originally posted by Jindl It applies to both touch and flatfooted (just like a deflection bonus). -Jindl It DOES NOT typically apply to flatfooted. (See above; I cannot think of any instances, off the top of my head, where it does apply to flatfooted, but the above reply covers all of the bases.) LL Edit: I can understand the inclination to say it is like a deflection bonus, since the two spells that can be used to make a defending weapon are Shield and Shield of Faith; if it weren't for the fact that the bonus is unnamed, my guess would be to say it is either a Shield or a Deflection bonus, too!
Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon 08-17-04, 05:15 PM	Originally posted by Beldin @Tekas: you do not have to repost your charackter, just edit it Oh, heh, sorry abou that...*goes to edit*
Beldin 08-17-04, 05:42 PM	question: Does a magic weapon ignore damage reduction adamantine? (from stoneskin?)
Ethendril 08-17-04, 05:53 PM	Originally posted by Beldin question: Does a magic weapon ignore damage reduction adamantine? (from stoneskin?) No. In 3.0 there was a heirarchy of damage reduction, so if you had a magic weapon it overcame anything beneath it, so a magic weapon would get through dr/silver, etc. Now, you must have the correct type of weapon to overcome the dr, such as dr/evil, dr/adamantine, dr/whatever. That's why they have silversheen and spells like align weapon now.
LLMadCow 08-17-04, 05:54 PM	Originally posted by Beldin question: Does a magic weapon ignore damage reduction adamantine? (from stoneskin?) Nope. Unless the magic weapon is made out of Adamantine, the damage will be 10 less per hit, capped at 10 x the caster level, maxed out at 150.
Beldin 08-17-04, 06:16 PM	ll, eth, thankyou. now a minmaxing question: Delayar is currently a Fighter 1/Wizard 6/eldritch knight 4. I planned him to take 2 levels of arcane archer (for imbue spell), but now I wounder if thats worth loosing 2 spellcaster levels. Any advice? (i know I ask my opponents, but :angel:)
Ethendril 08-17-04, 06:36 PM	Originally posted by Beldin ll, eth, thankyou. now a minmaxing question: Delayar is currently a Fighter 1/Wizard 6/eldritch knight 4. I planned him to take 2 levels of arcane archer (for imbue spell), but now I wounder if thats worth loosing 2 spellcaster levels. Any advice? (i know I ask my opponents, but :angel:) I've been watching Delayar and wondering if he would do this, inasmuch as Vaarkalikax is doing the same thing. He already has one level of AA, so the experiment is almost complete, but I'm still not sure if it will be worth it. The plus side: imbuing arrows with spells like reverse gravity, forcecage, cone of cold, in addition to damage from your arrow [1d8+str+magic damage]. I think this guy could be a fabulous spell disrupter, because the damage from the single arrow could be immense and make a concentration check tough. You end up with 8th-level spells. The downside is that one 9th-level spell may be (probably is) better than the additional damage you would do with the arrow. I'm very torn on this. So, if you would like to see what Vaarkalikax does after his next level, you could hold off taking those two AA levels and see what happens. If it's worth it, you could always take them later.
Ashenai 08-17-04, 06:41 PM	IMO it's a really cool idea that just isn't worth the loss of two caster levels. I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong, though. Go for it! :)
Beldin 08-17-04, 06:48 PM	Ethendril, that were exactly my thoughts. Delayar will be sitting out next week, he has to spend his 40000 gp :cool: ; so I have plenty time to think about that. grr, the next question: does anyone know an free online language tool that is better than ##&!§ Google?
Ethendril 08-17-04, 06:52 PM	Here's a question about arcane archers: The imbued spell's area of effect is centered on where the arrow lands. What happens if the arrow misses? In other words, where does an arrow land if it misses it's target? Does the spell miss, too, even if it's a spell like fireball with a radius?
Ashenai 08-17-04, 07:16 PM	What happens if the arrow misses? In other words, where does an arrow land if it misses it's target? Does the spell miss, too, even if it's a spell like fireball with a radius? There's a rule for exactly this sort of thing. Unfortunately, it's for thrown splash weapons only, and it shows; if a thrown splash weapon misses, it misses by a number of feet equal to its range increment. While this is fine for thrown splash weapons (their range increment is generally 5' or 10'), it gets rather silly for bows. :) I don't think there's a rule to handle this, and I propose the following houserule: for every point needed to hit the enemy, the arrow is off by 5' (direction rolled on a d8). For instance, if the opponent has AC 27, and the attack roll was a 24, the arrow misses by 15'. If the randomly determined impact square has improved or total cover from the archer, the arrow thunks into the cover instead. It's not a perfect system, but it's simple, fairly elegant, quick to calculate, and close enough. Incidentally, something all arcane archers should know: you can try to shoot a grid intersection, if you like, instead of the opponent. Grid intersections have AC 5.
Sindorin 08-17-04, 07:26 PM	That's true, but you have to take armor types into the matter. An arrow is not going to miss part of that AC because it may be heavy armor (probably if the example is AC 27)... some things will hit and bounce off such armor. Wouldn't the imbued spell target touch ac?
Ashenai 08-17-04, 07:37 PM	You're quite right, that does make sense. Okay, then if the arrow doesn't hit the target's AC but would hit its touch AC, it hits one of the target's grid intersections (archer's choice), but does no damage. If it would miss even the target's touch AC, then it's off by 5' for every point it would need to hit the touch AC.
SnarkHunter 08-17-04, 08:18 PM	Heyah. Just saying that the Harv vs. Kiri fight is well underway, and just now getting intresting. Also, DOnkey And Evram will again be ready this week but I'd like Evram to get a Monster fight with a Griffon. Although really I don't think that a full fledged monster fight is necessary. It has a CR 5 lower then mine after all. Here I'll let everyone read my tactics: Ready a 2x overchanneled Ego whip for when Griffon gets in range. Drop its charisma by 3d4 (unless it roles an 18 on the save) then Psionic Dominate its comatose body. And thusly I have a new mount :).
Sindorin 08-17-04, 08:20 PM	Dude, Evram could probably beat a dragon. he pimp :)
SnarkHunter 08-17-04, 08:42 PM	Oh I know. He just can't Dominate it yet :king: :D.
Caterane 08-17-04, 08:56 PM	Ego whip can't reduce a stat below 1
SnarkHunter 08-17-04, 09:02 PM	Cat when it says "The target takes 1d4 points of Charisma damage or half that amount (minimum 1 point) on a successful save." I do believe the min 1 point refers to the charisma damage taken. That is even if a '1' is rolled on a d4 and they make the save, they'd still take 1 point of charisma damage.
Battousai2005 08-17-04, 09:43 PM	Originally posted by Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon *dances* Meow...my first battle a win. Fun. ;p Anyways...*scanning through rules things* Nope, i didn't know there was an "inactivity" rule. Hmm...and I couldn't cast Bane while before the Tower Shield? I rather thought I could since I didn't need to target and thus didn't need to see my opponent...oh well. So a level up and some gold. How much gold? *is trying to find it* 1,700? It's a rule we have here. I think... 10 rounds and you have to do something or pitlords can do something to break your habit of sitting and waiting. It was intended so that fights didn't go on for x # of rounds. (Hint: Make x really, really big) You can't cast bane when in a full defensive position, which is what you dictated you wanted. Tower Shield description says so. That is what you wanted, right? If you wanted it from the piller, well, the fact that he was standing next to you kinda screws the whole idea. For future reference, put this in the comments and concerns thread.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-17-04, 10:44 PM	Yes. And guess who started that rule? :( I once hit for 346+ rounds until two castings from someones Alter Self spell wore off so i could melee them. Because i was all out of ranged weapons. LOL Ohhh...the good ole days. :rofl: -ToK
Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon 08-17-04, 11:18 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 It's a rule we have here. I think... 10 rounds and you have to do something or pitlords can do something to break your habit of sitting and waiting. It was intended so that fights didn't go on for x # of rounds. (Hint: Make x really, really big) You can't cast bane when in a full defensive position, which is what you dictated you wanted. Tower Shield description says so. That is what you wanted, right? If you wanted it from the piller, well, the fact that he was standing next to you kinda screws the whole idea. For future reference, put this in the comments and concerns thread. The Tower Shield descriptor states you give up your attacks, not your Standard Action. So you should be able to perform a standard action that does not require you to directly target an opponent just as casting an area effect spell or casting one of yourself.
SnarkHunter 08-17-04, 11:20 PM	Ah Tekas, we are using the version from the FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv07022004.zip) which states it takes an action to ready. Its easy to see how that would be unclear, so lets hope that makes it into the CoCo start up guide hmmm?
Druid Roxors 08-17-04, 11:21 PM	The long-awaited fight, at least for some, Kelek Vs Zedarak (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4212918#post4212918) has been posted. Please direct any and all concerns to this weeks Comments and Concerns (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=292091)Thread. Ps. I don't know if I should hate or admire Kelek...
Ethendril 08-17-04, 11:32 PM	Does anyone else think that the fight maps are becoming unbelievably good? Nice work, Druid.
Druid Roxors 08-17-04, 11:35 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril Does anyone else think that the fight maps are becoming unbelievably good? Nice work, Druid. Heh, Thanks! I was going to place arrows like in my last fight but then I thought to myself... Who the hell is going to understand it and how the hell am I going to put them! LOL
MysticMonk2005 08-18-04, 01:19 PM	Took a short break to get back on track. I would like to pitlord a fight plz.
Jindl 08-18-04, 01:20 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 Took a short break to get back on track. I would like to pitlord a fight plz. Welcome back, Mystic. Make sure you send a PM to the Pitlords account about your change of status (both pitlording and active PC's). -Jindl
Battousai2005 08-18-04, 02:11 PM	With Mystic returning, I think I myself will take a short break from Pitlording. School is about to start, and in general life is busy. I should be posting in the tavern and (maybe) other threads, but fights will be stand still for a while.
Druid Roxors 08-18-04, 04:30 PM	Suggestion! Start paring Characters level 12 and below! No need to hold the rest up because of 3 fights.
Myrridin 08-18-04, 04:33 PM	Yes, and don't forget my new level 2 psion. :)
Druid Roxors 08-18-04, 04:38 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Yes, and don't forget my new level 2 psion. :) Msg pitlords account :)
SnarkHunter 08-18-04, 09:26 PM	Hello all, I posted a small set of Violations in the thread-their directed at the 2nd levels amongst us mostly. I'd also like to formally welcome a good friend of mine Zpirate, who will hopefully be joining us in our little endevour soon :).
Sindorin 08-18-04, 09:37 PM	welcome Zpirate!
Zpirate 08-18-04, 09:48 PM	First post ever at this place, sounds like crazy fun. I can't wait to get into the action!!:D
Magagumo 08-18-04, 09:55 PM	Mwhahaahaha!! *Welcome :), I too was connived by Snark to join this wacky place, glad to have you aboard.* Hmm, so this makes two ppl Snark has drug here... I wonder if we should get credits for recruiting? ;)
SnarkHunter 08-18-04, 09:56 PM	Heh I was just thinking about that...
Sindorin 08-18-04, 09:57 PM	My girlfriend wants to make a character on here, so i get one, lol... we'll be the first official Core Coliseum Couple!!!
Pitlords 08-18-04, 10:04 PM	@all: You might have noticed that the Gladiators thread has been rearranged in order to incorporate the new Guickstart Guide (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&perpage=1&postid=2700324#post2700324) and make it easier for newcomers to post a gladiator and understand the rules. Sindorin, you girlfriend might be a good testperson :) Let her use the Quickstart Guide and don't help her. Tell me then how it went and what could be improved. Same for Z-Pirate. It's btw still under construction. So, sorry to all if I spoiled your links but hey, how often do we rearrange the Gladiators thread? :) Input and Comments appreciated. Thanks Cat PS: Ashenai and Ethendril, please try to get the fights up before the pairings are rolled. At least the lvl 15 league needs one more gladiator to battle Johan.
Jindl 08-18-04, 10:04 PM	@Sindorin and Aramil - I'd like to suggest that we freeze our 9th level PC's, so that we don't have to keep fighting each other over and over. Let's wait for some new blood to arrive for us to spill. What do you guys think? -Jindl
Jindl 08-18-04, 10:07 PM	Originally posted by Pitlords PS: Ashenai and Ethendril, please try to get the fights up before the pairings are rolled. At least the lvl 15 league needs one more gladiator to battle Johan. I thought Harvey#2 might want a rematch against Johan, since he is one of the few people he "Failed to Harvest." Think you can beat another cleric, Cat? -Jindl (who knows that clerics are the real powerhouses, not druids).
Sindorin 08-18-04, 10:08 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Sindorin and Aramil - I'd like to suggest that we freeze our 9th level PC's, so that we don't have to keep fighting each other over and over. Let's wait for some new blood to arrive for us to spill. What do you guys think? -Jindl My thoughts exactly, I had just been thinking about that... wait, aren't they eighth levels? Anyway, yeah i just set Tair as inactive this morning because I knew it wouldn't be worth anything to fight your pc's again... even though I could rematch against Ernie WITH ALL MY SPELLS MEMORIZED THIS TIME!!! [evil laugh]
SnarkHunter 08-18-04, 10:27 PM	Darn. Totally understandable guys, I guess I'll just have to wait on dazzling everyone with new displays of Psionic madness. Look out everyone, he's crazy!
Magagumo 08-18-04, 10:28 PM	Hmm.. something about that 9th level.. that's when Enilias, Angosh, and Tori froze too.
Jindl 08-18-04, 10:42 PM	@Mag - That's when all of the old PC's froze also (Jindl, Bruno, Bilo, Harvey1, Elder, etc). -Jindl
Jindl 08-18-04, 10:46 PM	ATTENTION !!! By a show of hands, who here thinks that Rhoar can take down Spike and his Roc? Who would like to see him try? Mike, what do you say to a challenge match? -Jindl
Zpirate 08-18-04, 11:25 PM	The quick start guide looks great! Straightforward and informative. The basic rules will be crucial, but it still looks like there are some missing links in the first section; the roster, pairings, arena map etc... It's just a small thing and I'm sure that it's still under construction. Good Work!!!:)
Caterane 08-19-04, 01:09 AM	Thanks Pirate :smirk: (what's that Z for?) Actually the Quickstart Guide is finished for now. I didn't add links to the Roster/Pairings and stuff because I want the newbies to scroll down and see how the thread is build up - something they won't learn by following links. So they know where everything is and they can now find it on their own. Still waiting on Sindorin's girl :)
Caterane 08-19-04, 02:04 AM	Johan got a +5 inherent bonus to wisdom by casting 5 Gate spells to gate in someone who fulfills him a wish. Total cost ~32000. +5 Tome of understanding ~120000. Didn't we just say that this is not possible?
Druid Roxors 08-19-04, 08:19 AM	I believe so...
Jindl 08-19-04, 08:47 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Johan got a +5 inherent bonus to wisdom by casting 5 Gate spells to gate in someone who fulfills him a wish. Total cost ~32000. +5 Tome of understanding ~120000. Didn't we just say that this is not possible? How exactly did a 15th lvl caster cast Gate (a 9th level spell) five times in a row? Keep in mind that the wishes must be "cast in immediate succession" in order to raise the inherent bonus higher than +1. Did he use 5 candles of invocation? Or was it by using a bead of karma and 5 scrolls: gate? Either way, the cost should have been 44,000+. -Jindl
Magagumo 08-19-04, 08:53 AM	Also, what exactly did he gate in to cast wish upon him?? It's not like every creature wishes to spend 5000 xp off the bat.. so that's 5 gates and 25000 gp per casting for the exp cost. that's 125,000 gp plus either Beads of karma and 5 gate scrolls (plus 5000 gp per scroll for the gate xp cost) or 5 candles of invocation. Yea.. unless we worked in normal exp [which we don't ;)], the Tomes are the cheapest method of getting inherent bonuses.
cellardweller 08-19-04, 09:13 AM	He used npc spellcasting costs 5(17*9*10+5000). Not that I mind gate being banned for this purpose - Johan has been saving up gold for wish*5 at L16. How about we extend the editing deadline for Johan vs Harv/Jindl till Friday night? I'm off to bed now so even if Ash posts the fight before pairings, I won't have a chance to get Johan ready.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-19-04, 10:07 AM	if that's the case then i'll just buy 5 candles of invocation, gate in 10 efreets and get 30 inherent bonuses raising all my stats +5 for a measily 42k. -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-19-04, 11:15 AM	HEY!! Don't go arround stealing my Efreeti idea!! :D
Ethendril 08-19-04, 12:57 PM	PS: Ashenai and Ethendril, please try to get the fights up before the pairings are rolled. At least the lvl 15 league needs one more gladiator to battle Johan I already sent this message to the Pitlords account, but I will no longer be able to run this fight and it should be reassigned. Unfortunately, one of the attorneys at my office has been hospitalized, and I am taking some of his work. I have requested being put on the inactive pitlords list for a while, and may not be able to run characters this week (we'll see). I apologize to Cat & Jindl.
Magagumo 08-19-04, 01:03 PM	Again, people seem to assume you can just order these beings to cast Wish ;) Nothing ever spends 5000 xp for free...
Druid Roxors 08-19-04, 01:07 PM	In fact, you can. It is completely legal if you take the rules literaly. The only limitation that a creature brought with a "Summoning" spell (of the summoning subschool) cannot expend xp while casting a spell (or like) ability. Gate, in the other hand, is a Calling effect that foces creatures to serve you unconditionally. Yes, it is broken. Yes, it should (will?) not be permited. (btw, you might face the vengeful Efreet and his friends later on)
Jindl 08-19-04, 01:55 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril I already sent this message to the Pitlords account, but I will no longer be able to run this fight and it should be reassigned. Unfortunately, one of the attorneys at my office has been hospitalized, and I am taking some of his work. I have requested being put on the inactive pitlords list for a while, and may not be able to run characters this week (we'll see). I apologize to Cat & Jindl. @Cat - Let's just put Dre and Aku back into the pool of gladiators and randomly determine new pairings this week. -Jindl
Jindl 08-19-04, 02:27 PM	IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT Re: Gate spells and effects We (the GM's) have decided the following rules will apply to all Gate spells and effects: 1. Gate spells and effects can only be used in combat. 2. Any magical effects created by the called creature end when the combat ends. This is official immediately and retroactively. We will be putting out future guidelines for a few select other spells (Wish, Miracle and PAO all spring to mind). -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 08-19-04, 02:36 PM	I have a few other ideas, but i'll wait to cheese it and win a fight before nerfing it. lol j/k -ToK (there's a few of us who've actually done that once too. lol)
Jindl 08-19-04, 02:48 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket I have a few other ideas, but i'll wait to cheese it and win a fight before nerfing it. lol j/k -ToK (there's a few of us who've actually done that once too. lol) I didn't win when I used PAO at 4th level ... -Jindl
Sindorin 08-19-04, 02:56 PM	@ Roll8dn: Your PM box is currently full... please clear some out so I can reply to your message. Thanks!
Pitlords 08-19-04, 04:08 PM	Alright guys, that's it! No more editing now! I'm going to roll the pairings within the hour. Any last wishes (active characters, # of fights, acknowledgements to me LOL) please PM to the Pitlord Account. Cat
Ashenai 08-19-04, 04:35 PM	:( :sad: :( Sorry to Jindl and Cat, then... if it's any comfort, I didn't have time to ready any of my own characters, either. I know that you guys were racing for 20th, and I just made that more difficult (for one of you, at least). The fight is still going... unfortunately, I got caught out by a number of issues and had to do a lot of corrections. I just found out that I mucked up Cat's movement BIGTIME. Since--apparently--there's now lots of time to finish the fight, do you guys feel like doing a PM battle? We could start from the beginning, and instead of mucking about with tactics, you could send me PMs with your actions, and I'll send you PMs with the results. Or we could do it by email, if you prefer. If that doesn't sound fun, I'll have the fight finished in a couple of hours, (assuming I don't mess up anything else). *crosses fingers* Also, I think I'll go back to running <one> fight per week (and I'm sending a PM to Pitlords to that effect); this lateness is looking to be somewhat chronic. If/when I manage to finish a fight faster, I'll see if I can handle more in future weeks. Again, my apologies.
Jindl 08-19-04, 04:44 PM	A PM battle sounds like fun. We can create a thread and Play by Post the fight, with Ashenai giving an end of round summary each round. We'll have to use the online roller of course (but heh, that's easy). Then everyone can watch as the fight unfolds. Sounds good to me. What do you think, Cat? -Jindl
Druid Roxors 08-19-04, 04:46 PM	Ooo! Spectators!
Ashenai 08-19-04, 04:53 PM	I suggest that if it is at all important to either of you that you be covert, then you shouldn't actually post your actions: send me PMs and I'll post only what both parties know (and will fill out the censored parts once the fight is over).
Caterane 08-19-04, 05:00 PM	Ash, no problem, we will just expand it into this week. You won't get a credit for it but then you get a credit for auditing which evens it out so no change to your credit account. I don't want to do a round by round thing since I won't have much time and this requires a lot of it. I really have to write on my exam. I'm always having the CoCo run in the background of my computer while I work and make a post once in a while but that's it. My freetime goes to tactics, pitlording, and GM duties. Sorry Jindl. But it would've been fun.
Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon 08-19-04, 06:47 PM	Meow... Are there only two fights this week?
Pitlords 08-19-04, 07:09 PM	Pairings done! Tactics due saturday Pitlords may begin running fights without tactics on sunday Fights due tuesday Late penalties on wednesday Notes: Let's try to get the schedule back to normal. For that reason I want to ask you to send tactics early and run fights early. If we are finished by monday with most fights, we might set next weeks pairings on wednesday. Due to lack of pitlords I took on EIGHT fights. If someone wants to have one of these you're most welcome. In any case, I request to extend my fights until wednesday else I'll just have to drop some; I won't take on negative credits for fights no one wants to run. Ethendril's characters sit out for weeks now due to the expensive monster fight costs. Let us make a decision on that matter so that his most interesting characters fight again. The Inactive List has been cleaned again. Note that your character won't be moved there if he's lvl 2 or 3 and deletion will follow soon for lvls 4-6. If you want to reactivate them again send a PM to the pitlord WITH the link to the character. Thanks Cat
SnarkHunter 08-19-04, 07:13 PM	Zounds! 8 fights Cat? Heck I'll take that level 2 one off your hands at least. @Myrr+Mystic: Please get your tactics to me by Friday if humanly possible. Weekend will be v. busy.
Druid Roxors 08-19-04, 07:13 PM	@ Cat: I will take one Mid-High level fight off from your shoulders. However, I request early tactics. Pleace place that request on the pitlords list. Remember, the earlier you send my tactics, the earlier I can check them and clarify stuff!
Magagumo 08-19-04, 07:33 PM	Who boy Cat!! Hey, I've got 4 chars fighting, and I'd like to stay even, so why don't I take one more from you (i'll have 3 and you'll have 4 :)) I'd be happy to take either the cryohydra fight (ay! :D) or the low-lvl one.. your preference (I'm afraid your pitlording most of my fights, so I can't take those...)
cellardweller 08-19-04, 07:38 PM	Originally posted by Pitlords Due to lack of pitlords I took on EIGHT fights. If someone wants to have one of these you're most welcome. In any case, I request to extend my fights until wednesday else I'll just have to drop some; I won't take on negative credits for fights no one wants to run. Tuesday is the second upgrade of the boards, so it makes sense for this to be another 2 week pairings, no?
Caterane 08-19-04, 07:39 PM	5 fights is fine now. I need that much for my story. If I run into troubles, you can have one. Please, by all means, send me your tactics as soon as possible!! Please please please, and I need all of them soon. Edit: Oh really? Upgrade again? Hey, 2 weeks pairings would be PERFECT!! Ray? Jindl? Edit2: I was thinking about making one list out of the Best Starters and Unstoppables. The reason behind this is that they (a) overlap anyway, and (b) it's not fair for those builds that are better at later levels. One early loss stops your dreams of ending up in the Hall of Fame. So what do you think?
Druid Roxors 08-19-04, 08:06 PM	Hey Cat. Can you create the Comments and Concerns thread so that I can spam "TACTICS TACTICS" on there too? :D
Tellish_of_Ket 08-19-04, 08:36 PM	Can't say i'd support a two-week pairing again. That last one was murder and it was only down for 4 hrs. That's what this one is as well. It shouldn't cause that much of a disruption if people get their fights done before it goes out of service. Those that aren't done, do them anyways, then as soon as the boards come up, post them all. Just remember to cut/paste anything you think you might need...oooh, like the character sheets maybe? lol We still haven't fully recovered from the last hit. So let's just make a bit of an effort to get tactics in early and run fights at our earliest time possible. -ToK
Caterane 08-19-04, 09:06 PM	That's not a 4 hour update. More like a 4 day upgrade. We won't have pairings next week anyway so just give everyone enough time. I can surely use it wisely for my latest story idea!!
Druid Roxors 08-19-04, 09:14 PM	Last time, the update was cancelled, thats why nothing special happened. About a week after that, a small update that took about 6 hours came up. The big main update is going to be different and you can expect that something will run wrong on their side. I believe that we should stay on the safe side and let an extra week fly by. Not like we are in a real hurry for level 20... Are we? :P
kattattack22 08-19-04, 11:44 PM	The 2 week pairings sound like a good idea. I know those high level fights are tough to run so I think its best we give people plenty of time to run them.
Sindorin 08-20-04, 12:28 AM	maybe we should just to 2 week pairings for pre-epic gladiators...
Aramil Dunskar 08-20-04, 11:33 AM	Originally posted by Jindl @Sindorin and Aramil - I'd like to suggest that we freeze our 9th level PC's, so that we don't have to keep fighting each other over and over. Let's wait for some new blood to arrive for us to spill. What do you guys think? -Jindl This is kinda late but whatever.... Heh I like this idea Jindl, I don't feel like losing again, since I'm almost sure that I wouldn't have a chance against either of you, due to the fact that I suck against flying creatures and or mages...... So with extended time I can now look over Ernie and makes some changes to hopefully be able to win and get a new mount...... -AD
Sindorin 08-20-04, 12:52 PM	Originally posted by Aramil Dunskar This is kinda late but whatever.... Heh I like this idea Jindl, I don't feel like losing again, since I'm almost sure that I wouldn't have a chance against either of you, due to the fact that I suck against flying creatures and or mages...... So with extended time I can now look over Ernie and makes some changes to hopefully be able to win and get a new mount...... -AD Plus, whoever wins gets to fight Evram... :D so it's probably best that we freeze at our level.
Myrridin 08-20-04, 04:05 PM	Heh, gonna buy my psion a mithral chain shirt. Yeah, I'll take the non-proficient penalty. On all attacks, Str/Dex ability and skill checks. Nice to have a 0 armor check penalty. :)
Magagumo 08-20-04, 04:09 PM	:thumbsup: Worked for Bruno's skels :) (or was that mw studded... *shrug*)
Zpirate 08-20-04, 06:40 PM	Well I geuss I'm still pretty new to this. I admit that I'm by no stretch of the imagination a D&D buff at the moment. SnarkHunter graciously walked me through some problems I had about being decisive. Generally lack of any good D&D knowledge has hurt me, but the more I familiarize myself with the information and the more fights I play, I should get better. I was wondering, though, it doesn't seem like the intial point system is very acessible. This was the hardest part of the process for me, I had no idea where to start or how to go about working out stats. I'll have to put out a post later to get feedback on what I'm working on so I can get some constructive criticism. But till then I continue to work away!:)
kattattack22 08-20-04, 06:51 PM	Originally posted by Zpirate I was wondering, though, it doesn't seem like the intial point system is very acessible. This was the hardest part of the process for me, I had no idea where to start or how to go about working out stats. I'll have to put out a post later to get feedback on what I'm working on so I can get some constructive criticism. But till then I continue to work away!:) We used to have a very nice table that explained the point buy system (assuming that is what you are talking about). It went something like this... 8 = 0 points 9 = 1 point 10 = 2 points 11 = 3 points 12 = 4 points 13 = 5 points 14 = 6 points 15 = 8 points 16 = 10 points 17 = 13 points 18 = 16 points 19 = 20 points 20 = 24 points and you have 36 points to spend on your attribute stats. EX. STR 14 (6 points) DEX 16 (10 points) CON 14 (6 points) INT 8 (0 points) WIS 9 (1 point) CHA 17 (13 points) so every stat should be at least an 8 unless a racial modifier drops it below that. No taking negative points in one stat to give to another.
Ashenai 08-20-04, 07:01 PM	Er... almost. You can't buy a 19 or a 20. However, racial (and age) adjustments are factored in after distributing points. So you can get a 20 STR, for instance, by choosing the Half-Orc race, and paying 16 points for an 18 STR, which then gets modified to 20.
Zpirate 08-20-04, 07:05 PM	Thanks so much I got it now. It seems, though, like something that would be useful to have around.
kattattack22 08-20-04, 07:54 PM	Originally posted by Ashenai Er... almost. You can't buy a 19 or a 20. However, racial (and age) adjustments are factored in after distributing points. So you can get a 20 STR, for instance, by choosing the Half-Orc race, and paying 16 points for an 18 STR, which then gets modified to 20. hmmm, here I though no one wanted to waste over half their points on one stat like that. There goes my idea for the melee focused half-orc barb dumping all points into STR and CON only. @Zpirate - we did use to have something like that in the rules section of the gladiator thread, but it was removed when we moved to our own board. Maybe one of the GM's would consider putting it back in the Quickstart guide or something like it.
Zpirate 08-20-04, 10:38 PM	So in my attempt to build a charachter, I was hoping to get some feedback to see if I wasn't doing something totally insane. The plan is a Grey Elf Wizard with stats of: Int 18, Str 8, Dex 16, Wis 12, Con 14 and Cha 8. I'm really worried about the strength with a 6 will just cause me to crumple when I lift things like chairs or plates or even a pen.
Ashenai 08-20-04, 10:43 PM	Insane? Looks pretty much exactly like every other Grey Elf mage. Including mine. :)
Sindorin 08-20-04, 11:16 PM	lol... not another one... :)
kattattack22 08-21-04, 12:21 AM	Originally posted by Zpirate So in my attempt to build a charachter, I was hoping to get some feedback to see if I wasn't doing something totally insane. The plan is a Grey Elf Wizard with stats of: Int 18, Str 8, Dex 16, Wis 12, Con 14 and Cha 8. I'm really worried about the strength with a 6 will just cause me to crumple when I lift things like chairs or plates or even a pen. Is that before or after racial adjustments? If that is with racial adjustments I only count 32 points spent leaving you with 4 more points to spread around. If it doesn't include racial adjustments then you are good to go. Grey Elf Wizards are very popular, but if you have some great plan for it, don't let the popularity of the build stop you. You might have some different prestige class, spell combinations, spell uses, etc. in mind that we haven't seen before. @naysayers - I seem to recall their only being 1 active red wizard and 1 loremaster...
Sindorin 08-21-04, 12:41 AM	I hope all those grey elf wizards plan on joining the Brotherhood of the Arcane Order... :eek: that Red Wizard of mine has lots of mistakes, he is probably going to get his butt remade soon. after that... look out :D
Kaigan 08-21-04, 01:53 AM	Okay, just posted a new character A cleric, and no cat, not like my first one. Remeber Felix??? Anyways, here enters Enilias' sister. OH, and also @Cat, or Jindl, or T_O_k: whoever is doing pairings. I will have this new character and Enilias ready for next week. but I do not wish to mod a fight. I still have a credit left, so I will use that up, but I would like both gladiators to fight. Thanks. I'll mod fights in a couple of weeks
Battousai2005 08-21-04, 07:43 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan Anyways, here enters Enilias' sister. Funny, but I always thought of him being an only child. Must have something to do with his personality... Anyway, I was bored and changed my sig. Oh, BTW, my friend said the boards changed, although I haven't noticed any difference. Am I blind, or is my internet being its usual jacked up self?
freemoody 08-22-04, 11:51 AM	I was wondering how to figure out Daenerys' damage for an Empowered Energy Ray. She can do 7d6 +7 with her energy ray. Is it worth it to start Empowering now? Is the +7 also Empowered? Any help is appreciated.
Magagumo 08-22-04, 12:31 PM	To my knowledge, the 7 is not. As Daenerys can deal either 7d6+7 with 5 PP + 2 WS or 7.5+5 for 5 PP +2 WS (w/ Empower Power), I would say it is somewhat worth one use in a battle. After that, you must regain psi focus (full-round) which makes it less worth multiple uses. At 6th, Daen could take Meditation, regaining her focus each round in addition to manfiesting a 9d6+6 energy ray (as opposed to an 8d6+8). So you see, as time passes, the metapsionic feat's usefulness will increase.
Druid Roxors 08-22-04, 12:35 PM	Easy, Just roll the 7d6 + 7 and multiply the result by 1.5 Yes, +7 applies to Empower Power. Average Damage Now: 31.5 Average Damage when Empowered: 47.25 (Move aciton focus) Average Damage when augmented 2 levels: 40.1 (+1 to save) So, IMO, it is worth it. Edit: Mag, the +1 is not a benefit dependant on CL, as such, it is multiplied when using Empower. Just as the MM example on the phb.
Ashenai 08-22-04, 12:38 PM	Yes, it is worth it (ignoring the extra cost of having to expend your focus). Basically, if you want to spend more than 6 power points on an Energy Ray, it's worth Empowering it. The following is a table that should help you figure out when Empowering is worth it, and when it's not. The figures are for Fire (or Cold) rays, but it's basically the same for Electric and Sonic rays as well. | Power points you want | Average damage, | Average damage, | | to spend on a Ray | Normal | Empowered | |----------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | 4.5 | 0 (impossible) | | 2 | 9.0 | 0 (impossible) | | 3 | 13.5 | 6.5 | | 4 | 18.0 | 13.25 | | 5 | 22.5 | 20.0 | | 6 | 27.0 | 26.75 | | 7 | 31.5 | 33.5 | | 8 | 36.0 | 40.25 | | 9 | 40.5 | 47.0 | | 10 | 45.0 | 53.75 | | 11 | 49.5 | 60.5 | | 12 | 54.0 | 67.25 | | 13 | 58.5 | 74.0 | | 14 | 63.0 | 80.75 | | 15 | 67.5 | 87.5 | | 16 | 72.0 | 94.25 | | 17 | 76.5 | 101.0 | | 18 | 81.0 | 107.75 | | 19 | 85.5 | 114.5 | | 20 | 90.0 | 121.25 | Hope that was helpful. :)
Magagumo 08-22-04, 12:39 PM	Hmm, I say the level-based number isn't, Druid says it is.. damn these vague rules! Ok, I'm better. Druid, from past discusions on these boards, I feel that I have heard that only random variables are empowered by the spell (Thus, False Life being: 1d10x1.5+ lvl, not (1d10+lvl) x 1.5). I believe [sadly] that this has been determined to be the "proper" ruling, but I'm curious if you have evidence otherwise ala Core books?
Ashenai 08-22-04, 12:44 PM	Level-based numbers are not multiplied by Empower Spell and Empower Power. However, the +1 for Energy Ray (and Magic Missile) is not a level-based number. It's considered a part of the die itself; the best way to imagine it is to think of Energy Ray (fire) using a six-sided die with the numbers 2 to 7 on it (instead of the usual one, with 1 to 6). I think it's a fairly strange ruling, and not terribly logical, but it is official.
Druid Roxors 08-22-04, 12:47 PM	Exactly! ;)
SnarkHunter 08-22-04, 12:49 PM	Ok smarty pants(;)), when does twin power become useful?
Ashenai 08-22-04, 12:56 PM	Well, that's actually a lot simpler: it becomes worth it when you want to spend more than 12 power points on Energy Ray, making it a true high-level feat. Special bonus answer for Evram: Purely damage-wise, Twinning an Energy Stun is only worth it if you want to spend more than 14 power points on it. On the other hand, you usually won't want to Twin an Energy Stun in most cases, because your opponent will generally (though not always) have a better chance of making two easy saving throws than one difficult one.
Druid Roxors 08-22-04, 12:57 PM	Acording to my Mathe-Magic. On fire and cold (+1) level 12+, on the rest level 14+. (Ray only, saves are important) Edit: GRrr. Ashenai beat me to it! :P
Ashenai 08-22-04, 12:58 PM	No, it's 12+ for all energy types. Energy Ray doesn't allow a saving throw. :)
Druid Roxors 08-22-04, 01:00 PM	Ah, yes. My Mathe-Magic is not working that well :D I said "Ray only, saves are important" meaning that this only applies to the ray, because it does not allow saves, and saves are important.
freemoody 08-22-04, 01:32 PM	Thanks a lot for the help guys. :) Expect Danny to be Empowering soon.
SnarkHunter 08-22-04, 01:55 PM	Hmm looks like fine work there son. I think in that case it would be prudent to snatch Quicken at 10th and Twin at 12th aye what?
Ashenai 08-22-04, 02:43 PM	Probably... but you just wait until Ildechai catches up with Evram. None of these tricks will help you then, y'hear? ;)
SnarkHunter 08-22-04, 03:04 PM	I'll believe it when I see it. And at any rate it'll be a little while before my favored child gets going again, so we'll see what I see, yah see?
KerlanRayne 08-22-04, 03:33 PM	If all you want it for is the rays, Split Ray is better than Twin Power. KerlanRayne
Ashenai 08-22-04, 03:35 PM	No, I'm pretty sure you can't target a single target with both of the rays if you Split them.
Zerone 08-23-04, 01:05 AM	'Ello all... I am new to the site and I have some questions on the Arena itself. Can you break down the exterior walls? The pillars? Is it air tight? Is there air current (?? mph)? etc... Anyone know where I can find these answers? Thanks...
Zerone 08-23-04, 09:47 AM	Whoa, the boards were acting up last night and I posted my last question here and on it's own thread. I didn't even think it posted at all, since the page never finished loading to the wait screens. Sorry for the double post! I've other questions, about character creation this time... What does the following mean and how does one fill it out? Spells Memorized pre-fight (½x / ½y / ½z /..., of x=?+s / y=?+b+d+s / z=?+b+d+s /... per day): If you are a wizard, do you have to carry your spellbook into battle or can you leave it at home? How many potions can fit on a belt? How many scrolls can fit into a srcoll case? I know I saw it before, but now I cannot find it. How much does it cost to scribe your own scroll? How do you handle the XP loss when creating magical items? Again, I cannot find it... Well, that should tide me over for a bit. Thanks to all who offer their help!
Myrridin 08-23-04, 09:57 AM	Zerone: That's just listing the various casters, and how you should list spells per day. For a 5th level wizard - 4/4/3/2 (0th/1st/2nd/3rd) For a 5th level cleric - 4/3+1/3+1/2+1 (same as above, but the "+1" is your domain spell) You must list all of your memorized spells as a caster now before the character is paired. A wizard doesn't have to bring their spellbook into the fight, and I don't know of any who do. XP loss for creating items is done a little differently. 1XP = 5gp. So if the item would result in your losing 6XP, you instead pay 30gp. *shrug* I can't remember the potions and scrolls.
Druid Roxors 08-23-04, 09:57 AM	Originally posted by Zerone Whoa, the boards were acting up last night and I posted my last question here and on it's own thread. I didn't even think it posted at all, since the page never finished loading to the wait screens. Sorry for the double post! I've other questions, about character creation this time... What does the following mean and how does one fill it out? Spells Memorized pre-fight (½x / ½y / ½z /..., of x=?+s / y=?+b+d+s / z=?+b+d+s /... per day): B = bonus, S = Specialization, D = Domain, ? = Spells per day. This is outdated. Before, wizards (and all prepared casters) would display half of their spell selection on their character sheet and half on their tactics, keeping the tactics part Secret. Now, you have to display every single spell prepared as is. So, ignore that part and just display all your spells prepared for the fight. If you are a wizard, do you have to carry your spellbook into battle or can you leave it at home?Yes, you do not need your spellbook to cast spells in the fight. How many potions can fit on a belt? This is for flavor, you can carry as many as you like (as long as you can carry their weight). Think of it as having them on your backpack, it is the same type of action (a move action) to draw a potion from your pack or belt. How many scrolls can fit into a srcoll case?Same as above, Flavor. I know I saw it before, but now I cannot find it. How much does it cost to scribe your own scroll? It costs the same as in a campaign. Substitute the experience cost for 5gp/xp. In other words, you get a 30% off any scroll (or magic item) you craft in the CoCo. How do you handle the XP loss when creating magical items? Again, I cannot find it...5gp/xp, already described above. Well, that should tide me over for a bit. Thanks to all who offer their help! NP :) Edit: Damnit Myrr! :tantrum:
Pittbull 08-23-04, 10:51 AM	Hello guys and girls! Holiday is over and I'm back again. Have there been any significant things in the last three week: rule-changings or stuff like that? I'll try to read the whole threads, but this will take time. I've seen that Hatze has quit, I'll talk to him. @Pitlords: Angosh is ready for this week!!!
LLMadCow 08-23-04, 11:10 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Edit: GRrr. Ashenai beat me to it! :P Yup. That Ash is a quick little bugger, ain't he!?!? Seriously, whenever we are both on the boards, it comes down to who posts first. The Speed Posting Wars! And I am only using Dial Up! So, Druid, how was the siesta? :zzz: How's your pillow? WHERE'S THE FIGHT????? :P <Waiting...>
Druid Roxors 08-23-04, 11:58 AM	I DON'T TAKE SIESTAS!! Keep waiting pal, I'm not finished on my last fight and I have yet to arrive home. You know, its your fault! You didn't hand in the tactics on time :P
LLMadCow 08-23-04, 12:17 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors I DON'T TAKE SIESTAS!! Well, maybe you shlould. I do whenever I can, and it is quit enice. Especially if you can relax with a nice honey in you arms... Very nice. :cool:
Druid Roxors 08-23-04, 12:24 PM	Damned Mexican Wannabie :D
Druid Roxors 08-23-04, 12:36 PM	*Double post*
Beldin 08-23-04, 02:00 PM	"I've seen that Hatze has quit, I'll talk to him." Thats good. I really hope he returns to us.
Battousai2005 08-23-04, 02:01 PM	Mexican wannabe? Dude, you want Mexican wannabes, come visit my town. Southern California. Yah. Just look at some white boys down here. Not pretty. Not in any way. Well, speaking of foreign countries, Kaigan. Look at the humor thread when you get the chance. I left something there for you.;)
Druid Roxors 08-23-04, 02:27 PM	:rofl: *Back to topic* ;)
SnarkHunter 08-23-04, 04:32 PM	You know what tastes real good? Honey Grahams Crackers with some peanut butter and raisins. Se magnifique!
Battousai2005 08-23-04, 04:36 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter You know what tastes real good? Honey Grahams Crackers with some peanut butter and raisins. Se magnifique! ... I do not even know how to begin to respond to this one. ... Yah ... French right? ... Yah ... I'm gonna shut up now. ... ... ...
SnarkHunter 08-23-04, 04:42 PM	This is what happens when people don't post fights. YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS? Man I don't like 2 week pairings.
Beldin 08-23-04, 05:45 PM	oh no!! we have two weeks pairings...!!!:sad:
Tellish_of_Ket 08-23-04, 05:55 PM	Originally posted by Beldin oh no!! we have two weeks pairings...!!!:sad: I don't like 'em either. The only difference between one week pairings and two week pairings, is that you have to wait two full weeks for the late-posted fights. In no way does 2-week parings assist in getting fights completed with any kind of punctuallity. -ToK
MysticMonk2005 08-23-04, 06:22 PM	has the Map thread been deleted? Or am I just not seeing it amongs the masses?
Caterane 08-23-04, 07:07 PM	Well, my fights are long done but I'm only on page 15 of my story so the 2-week-pairings come in handy :)
kattattack22 08-23-04, 07:09 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter You know what tastes real good? Honey Grahams Crackers with some peanut butter and raisins. Se magnifique! Snark, its "C'est Magnifique!"
Battousai2005 08-23-04, 07:36 PM	Hey, Kattattack, the humor thread died. Can you help with a ressurection?
MysticMonk2005 08-23-04, 08:16 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 has the Map thread been deleted? Or am I just not seeing it amongs the masses? can any one help me on this?
kattattack22 08-23-04, 08:25 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Hey, Kattattack, the humor thread died. Can you help with a ressurection? I'm going to try. I put up a new poste, but nothing original there. Just not feeling the funny, but when I do the heavens shall shake with laughter. Edit: @MM2k5 - Maps thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=249853)
Druid Roxors 08-23-04, 09:14 PM	The fight Brock Granitehand Vs Bloodmaiden Shiaan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4257444#post4257444) has been posted. Please direct any and all concerns to this week's Comments and Concerns Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=295773)
LLMadCow 08-24-04, 11:05 AM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket I don't like 'em either. The only difference between one week pairings and two week pairings, is that you have to wait two full weeks for the late-posted fights. In no way does 2-week parings assist in getting fights completed with any kind of punctuallity. -ToK Isn't the 30th NEXT WEEK!?!? Why do we have two weeks right now? since the 30th is next week, this may drag out into a 3 week pairings and that is plain ridiculous. @ToK - I have to say this: 2 week pairings can be good, but ONLY if you announce the fights on Wednesday and REQUIRE tactics by Saturday. A lot of people only run fights on the weekends, and I only run on Sunday and Monday, and the last time pairings were two weeks, everyones attitude seemed to be: WOW, I have one whole week to do tactics! Yipee! Reality says that tactics DO NOT take a weel to write and the power of the two week pairings is best spent on running fights. When I had fights to run, I had tactics that weren't received until late on Monday. Well, there went my weekend and forced me to delay until the following weekend. @Everyone - Is this going to be 3/4 week pairings, or can we count on enough fights getting finished to get pairings done, maybe by Friday. That would be enough time to jump in for another round of: TWO WEEK PAIRINGS!
Caterane 08-24-04, 11:23 AM	@Brian: What is going on on the 30th?
Druid Roxors 08-24-04, 11:24 AM	7/30 is the time the notice was posted... Thats last month. The Wizards message boards upgrade will be delayed until August 24. Upgrades in the test environment have been going more slowly than anticipated and have required that the upgrade date be pushed back. Due to previous community staff commitments and Gen Con, the next window of opportunity to upgrade is at the end of August.
Druid Roxors 08-24-04, 11:27 AM	BTW... RED ALERT! Boards are going down today! Pitlords, take copies of any Character Sheets you will be needing NOW!! We do not know if the boards are going to be reverted a whole week! If it is... then the character sheets wouldn't be updated! Save the fights you post! Save everything!
LLMadCow 08-24-04, 11:30 AM	Oops. My bad, y'all. I just woke up and I don't sleep with my Periapt of Wisdom +4 on. I saw the 30h and wanted to cry. Fine, fine. I concede to the greater consciousness.... :confused:
Ashenai 08-30-04, 09:17 PM	Testing new boards...
Caterane 08-30-04, 09:20 PM	"Let's see what this Galaxy Class Starship can do"
SnarkHunter 08-30-04, 10:12 PM	So these be the new boards? Intresting indeed. I would advise any DM who hasn't yet, that it might be a good idea to repost your fight.
Druid Roxors 08-30-04, 10:40 PM	"Let's see what this Galaxy Class Starship can do" More like a puny Tie fighter. :P
Zerone 08-31-04, 12:07 AM	@ Pitlords, I have posted a character here: Jin Szen (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4263615&posted=1#post4263615) Ready for Sept. 1, ECL 2.
Pittbull 08-31-04, 02:46 AM	@Beldin: Angosh wants to have a revenge! He challanges Aemon! :hoppingma
Myrridin 08-31-04, 09:51 AM	Edit: I'll Pitlord, but hopefully only a fight that's below about level 9 or so. Those would be fine.
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 11:15 AM	The 3 or 4 people who want somethign done, Remember! Send a Private Message to the "Pitlords" Account! Otherwise, it might get ignored.
Caterane 08-31-04, 12:25 PM	Please send all requests to the Pitlord Account (PM)! Can it be that the links for the gladiators don't work?
Myrridin 08-31-04, 12:27 PM	None of the inter-board links work right now. yeah, that messes things up good... :P They're all messed up. I've searched around, and supposedly there's a fix for it, but I'm having trouble making it work.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-31-04, 01:26 PM	None of the inter-board links work right now. yeah, that messes things up good... :P They're all messed up. I've searched around, and supposedly there's a fix for it, but I'm having trouble making it work. There is a fix for it, and i'm fixing it now. I'm doing all the work on the Roster/Pairings/Pitlord Status threads offline. I'll be logging in with the Pitlords account later this afternoon to re-post everything with the correct links. It's real easy actually just type "http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=" for yoru link now instead of that long frigger. Keep your postnumber the same and get rid of everything else. For instance a link to kelek would look like this: Kelek (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2788254) {url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2788254}Kelek{/url} replace {} with [] -ToK
Beldin 08-31-04, 01:32 PM	@Angosh ;) You know how to die!
Caterane 08-31-04, 02:01 PM	Can someone give me the link to the SRD please before my internet cafe time runs out LOL
Ashenai 08-31-04, 02:03 PM	http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 02:10 PM	Caterane, use the magic of Google! www.google.com Search, 3.5 SRD [Im feeling lucky] Presto.
Pitlords 08-31-04, 02:25 PM	Roster Updated: From what i know the Roster is completely functional and updated. Pairings will be done on time tomorrow so please pm the Pitlords account if your gladiator is inactive or not set to ready on the active list. Also i would like a show of hands (via PM to the Pitlords account) how many fights you are willing to run this week. Fight precedence will be given to pitlords who pm me. -ToK
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 02:46 PM	Announcement! The first Real-Time Showmatch in the Core Coliseum will be performed this weekend! I have volunteered as a pitlord for this fight and Caterane has volunteered one of his characters to the cause. If any of you want to try this (High level Gladiators) Challenge Caterane and let the fight begin! This fight's result will be official, spectators are welcomed. The fight will be done through a messenger service. ANY, as long as both can use it (I believe Caterane only uses Yahoo, tho). I need both players to check with each other about a time and date. Please do so before being a volunteer. Thanks!
Caterane 08-31-04, 03:13 PM	There's no Warmind in the SRD and I cannot download from here. Well, I'll update it tomorow then.
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 03:34 PM	Warmind: 3rd Bab: +2 Fort: +3 Ref: +3 Wis: +1 Enduring body (DR 1/-) PP: 9 Powers Known: 2 Max power level: 1st Enduring Body (Ex): At 3rd level, a war mind learns the third principle of warfare for the individual combatant: to unleash in oneself the spirit of the enduring body. The spirit of the ideal body transforms a war mind, granting him damage reduction 1/-. At 6th level, his damage reduction improves to 2/-. At 9th level, his damage reduction improves to 3/- Ps: I see the warmind on the SRD. Here (http://www.prodigyweb.net.mx/rodomg/)
Battousai2005 08-31-04, 08:52 PM	Well, I like the new setup. Ok, relaying a message. MysticMonk is, regrettably, unable to access the internet at his home. Why, I have no idea. If the current pitlords would be so kind as to set all his characters to inactive and not give him any fights, by his request. Still, he could have just done this himself at school. Lazy A**. I would like one fight this week and my only character will be Rain.
Caterane 08-31-04, 08:53 PM	Thanks Druid! @all: Just curious: Which skins did you chose? :) I picked Prismatic! Even though I just got killed by such a wall. Another thing: Are we really going to allow the auto-kill with the prismatic wall? That is no fun anymore to play high level. At least let us allow to brake even on a ready action if there's no minimum forward speed!
Battousai2005 08-31-04, 09:02 PM	Thanks Druid! @all: Just curious: Which skins did you chose? :) I picked Prismatic! Even though I just got killed by such a wall. Another thing: Are we really going to allow the auto-kill with the prismatic wall? That is no fun anymore to play high level. At least let us allow to brake even on a ready action if there's no minimum forward speed! I got leather and parchment. It has a nice feel for fantasy roleplay. That is the problem with high level characters. I prefer getting hit by prismatic wall over, say, weird? A heck of a lot better than imprison. The first Real-Time Showmatch in the Core Coliseum will be performed this weekend! I have volunteered as a pitlord for this fight and Caterane has volunteered one of his characters to the cause. If any of you want to try this (High level Gladiators) Challenge Caterane and let the fight begin! This fight's result will be official, spectators are welcomed. The fight will be done through a messenger service. ANY, as long as both can use it (I believe Caterane only uses Yahoo, tho). I need both players to check with each other about a time and date. Please do so before being a volunteer. Thanks! Ah, not exactly. I actually did a Real time fight a while back. It was an old character of mine vs. Pard. I won, if I remember right. Modded by Arti
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 09:06 PM	NP Cat How about Maximized energy Drain :mymy: Edit: Using the block of smelly thingy, obviously
Caterane 08-31-04, 09:17 PM	Max Energy Drain? Death ward, 4th level. And you have to be hit. That's defense enough. Weird has a save. Imprisonment is no victory since he's not dead. Prismatic Wall blocker however has almost no defense.
Battousai2005 08-31-04, 09:20 PM	Cat. If you are imprisioned, you are as good as dead. If not, we could always use the whole '10 round out of the arena' rule. After all, the person is imprisioned, what, a mile below the earth? I think that is kinda out of the radius of the arena, no? Please tell me we are not going into another "casters are overpowerd!!!" debate. :mad:
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 09:24 PM	No, I think he is going into some "Druids have no "Instant Win" high level spells, UNDERPOWERED!!!" :P
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 09:26 PM	So, Batt. I guess Viciocelis' Fight will not come to happen then. I guess she will just get repaired... Im going to set her ready, is that fine Elders?
Battousai2005 08-31-04, 09:27 PM	No, I think he is going into some "Druids have no "Instant Win" high level spells, UNDERPOWERED!!!" :P *Cough!* Elemental Swarm! *Cough!* Wait, wait! I have a better one! Repel metal or stone! [quote]Wizard: "Hey, i didn't know a fighter could fly like that!" Fighter: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Zerone 08-31-04, 09:29 PM	Have you ever thought of a 'banned' list, where all instant kills are banned? This way there is no unfair advantage to fights...
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 09:30 PM	*Cough!* Elemental Swarm! *Cough!**Cough!* 10 minute casting time! *Cough!* 10m/lvl duration! *Cough!*
Battousai2005 08-31-04, 09:36 PM	*Cough!* 10 minute casting time! *Cough!* 10m/lvl duration! *Cough!* Hmmm. Didn't see that. I am a Neverwinter Nights vet. Hmmm... I found one, although its a bit higher than normal. Shambler. 3-6 shambling mounds. 1 standard action. painful... Sadly, sunburst is not the killer it used to be in AD&D. Still, I remeber someone saying that druids were ment to slow a bit as they hit higher levels. Wizards and sorcerers were ment to be the high level power (surprise, suprise...)
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 09:39 PM	Shambler can de defeated by a level 5 wizard... "FLY" Nono, Im not saying their spells are bad. Although not as good as wizard or cleric spells, their high-level focus is crazy melee. And Corinthus hates going into melee. I mean... he gets all dirty and stuff. :D
Battousai2005 08-31-04, 09:45 PM	Shambler can de defeated by a level 5 wizard... "FLY" Nono, Im not saying their spells are bad. Although not as good as wizard or cleric spells, their high-level focus is crazy melee. And Corinthus hates going into melee. I mean... he gets all dirty and stuff. :D And a level 7 druid can counter fly. Dispel magic. Not a gurentee, but definately worth the shot, no? Waiting until they are 50+ feet up helps... :devil: Druids are, to the extend of my knowledge, an attempt to mix offensive magic, defensive magic, and melee capability with a few gimmicks in for good measure. EDIT: Course, the same can be said of Bards...
Magagumo 08-31-04, 09:46 PM	The problem with banning certain spelsl oturight is that it leads to further balance within the system (a bad precedent as it were). The philosophy of this place is to take everything 3.5 has to offer, warts and all. And, to admit some bias, the necromancer/illusionist (read: Phantasmal Kilelr, Finger of Death, and Weird) is going to be furious if all death spells are automatically banned. [Heck, DeatHW ard is obnoxious enough ;)]
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 09:49 PM	Try dispelling that Griffon or Nightmare. Good luck! In any case, Mag. The only spells that cause the "Fuzz" are those that offer no save to death. Like passing through a Prismatic Wall and Gating a Solar.
Battousai2005 08-31-04, 09:59 PM	Try dispelling that Griffon or Nightmare. Good luck! In any case, Mag, The only spells that cause the "Fuzz" are those that offer not save to death. Like passing through a Prismatic Wall and Gating a Solar. Gating a solar? I rather think a Baalor would be more cost effective. Now that is something I would like to see. Prismatic wall sucks. No real way to go around it. No pun intended. Prismatic sphere is a much more deadly spell because you can't go around it. Prismatic wall can be arguably delt with by going around it. Or waiting it out. Oh, stupid me! I forgot! You CAN'T wait it out! How dumb of me. This is a situation where waiting might not be so bad of an idea. My idea of fun is not a: getting slammed for God knows how much damage b: Getting turned into a squirrel. c: Getting turned into stone d: Being transported to another plane. I rather think being a statue of a dead squirrel on another plane would signify a funny end, but not if it was because I walked into a big, shiny, obviously magical wall. Going around sounds like a good idea.
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 10:08 PM	Gating a solar? I rather think a Baalor would be more cost effective. Now that is something I would like to see. Prismatic wall sucks. No real way to go around it. No pun intended. Prismatic sphere is a much more deadly spell because you can't go around it. Prismatic wall can be arguably delt with by going around it. Or waiting it out. Oh, stupid me! I forgot! You CAN'T wait it out! How dumb of me. This is a situation where waiting might not be so bad of an idea. My idea of fun is not a: getting slammed for God knows how much damage b: Getting turned into a squirrel. c: Getting turned into stone d: Being transported to another plane. I rather think being a statue of a dead squirrel on another plane would signify a funny end, but not if it was because I walked into a big, shiny, obviously magical wall. Going around sounds like a good idea.Thats IF you succeeded the last save. Else you would be a destroyed statue of a squirrel in the negative energy plane. This is what happens. Mr flying wizard casts prismatic sphere, he hides and snipes. You go to the other side of the central obstacle and wait. HE is the one subjected to the 10 second invulnerability rule, not you.
Ashenai 08-31-04, 10:21 PM	Before we go too far off-topic, I'd like to address the original problem (Prismatic Wall). IMO, the way readied actions work in D&D is both clunky and unclear. I propose the following house rule (though, for all I know, it's actually the way readied actions are supposed to work. For the life of me, I can't tell, just by reading the rules): If a character's action is interrupted via a readied action, the character has to finish his action once the readied action is over (if he can). However, he can make decisions regarding his action anew. What does this mean in practice? A few examples: 1) Anne is using a move action to move 30', from (20,0) to (14,0). She gets to (18,0) when she is interrupted by a readied action from Bob, who puts up a Prismatic Wall in her path. Anne must now use the remainder of her move action to move 20' (she has already moved 10'), but she can modify her path and go in whichever direction she likes for that remaining 20'. In other words, she can go around the wall. 2) Charles the mage is casting Fireball, targeting grid intersection (10.5,10.5), when he is interrupted by Don's readied action, who uses this action to move away. If Charles now had to finish his casting of the Fireball to the original grid intersection, he'd miss Don. He can, however, choose to decide on another grid intersection to target after Don's readied action, thus (probably) making Don's readied movement trick ineffective. 3) Elmo the mage is casting Magic Missile, targeting Fred, when he is interrupted by Fred's readied action, who uses this action to move behind full cover. Elmo has to finish the casting of the Magic Missile; if there's another target in sight (Fred's cohort, maybe), then Elmo can retarget the magic Missile to hit the new target, otherwise, the spell is lost. Thoughts?
Magagumo 08-31-04, 10:27 PM	One thing about the Gating though, is that you can only control them if your caster level exceeds or equals their HD. So yes, a 17th lvl cleric w/ beads of karma or a 18th lvl cleric w/ the same can snag a Balor or Solar, respectively, but that's also spending 5000 gp for a single fight. Is this a brutal and powerful tactic? Very much so, but it is placed at such an extrodinarily high level, that we should be coming to expect it as well. *shrug* D & D at high levels is utter madness- a realm where one opponent can so completely out-class another (despite equal levels) that there is little question re: the winner. See Hvy fortification vs. a rogue, death wards vs. insta-kill, gate vs. pure fighter. However, I must say that this knowledge is what causes me to lend some support to Moh's proposal (it has a lot of bugs right now, namely that a character on their "3rd fight" can be utterly mauled by another character starting fresh at their respective level. I'm discussing tired-out wizard vs. fresh cleric here.) We all know that one or two high-lvl spells can make/break a fight, and that's where the multiple fights before recuperation has strength. *shrug* If this continues to be discussed extensively, then I believe we should turn an eye towards Moh's propsal. P.S. I've seen a solar annihilated in a single round of being summoned, without being allowed to act, by a single fighter. The levels were higher, but I do not believe a 20th lvl fighter would have insane issue mimicking the feat given the opportunity. This also involved no weapons capable of defeating the angel's DR ;) Edit: I would concur with all three of your points, Ash, citing only that a creature unable of turning in time through flight (and the rules more than adequately cover this possibility) or when they are charging (they may terminate the charge, of course, but it will stop it dead) will suffer difficulties from the wall. So watch out when flying a zombie dragon, but fear not with nightmare skeleton or warhorse- this abjuration may cause pain, but you have full opportunity to avoid it :)
Caterane 08-31-04, 10:50 PM	What bothers me in the Kelek vs Harvester fight is that it wasn't Kelek vs Harvester but 'Harvester flies into a prismatic wall'. Or imagine this: a 4th level commoner with a candle of invocation burns it to gate something in which kills the lvl 15 Harvester. Is the lvl 4 commoner now more powerful than Harvester? See the problem? That has nothing to do with testing builds, nor is it fun. Thus we should definately use the rules Ash proposed. And perhaps even find a solution to the problem I just stated. How many candles and prismatic walls does Kelek have in a campaign? One. The second and every other fight for weeks will be made without these items. That tells us nothing about the build.
Battousai2005 08-31-04, 11:00 PM	What bothers me in the Kelek vs Harvester fight is that it wasn't Kelek vs Harvester but 'Harvester flies into a prismatic wall'. Or imagine this: a 4th level commoner with a candle of invocation burns it to gate something in which kills the lvl 15 Harvester. Is the lvl 4 commoner now more powerful than Harvester? See the problem? That has nothing to do with testing builds, nor is it fun. Thus we should definately use the rules Ash proposed. And perhaps even find a solution to the problem I just stated. How many candles and prismatic walls does Kelek have in a campaign? One. The second and every other fight for weeks will be made without these items. That tells us nothing about the build. Characters, no. Cleverness? Come on, Cat. Even you have to admit that was a nice little trick. One problem is that the Harvester is a death build. I will come right out and say that it is one of the best builds that I have seen in a good, long time. But even a good build can be decimated by a good tactic. I admit, it is not fun being on the recieving end of Prismatic wall. The last time it happened to me, my ressurection process involved traveling to the Negative energy plane, gathering my pieces, casting mending spells to put my body back together, casting stone to flesh, miracle to transform me back, followed by ressurection. I believe my party fined me 20k gold apiece and also caused me to owe a date to our female character. Cha 8. Shudder. EDIT: I forgot to mention luck factor. Kage would not be where he is were it not for that Double EDIT: Oh, and as for readied actions. Just cast the wall on the harvester. More fun would be prismatic sphere, but I tend to have too much fun with spells
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 11:23 PM	As you might already know, I hate pokemons. I believe the problem lies with One shot items and Instant Win spells. Prismatic wall scrolls wouldn't count as a "one shot" item. It is not that expensive and one could say you would spend it at every "Boss Battle" to ensure victory. Not that I think the tactic for readied actions should stay the same though. One thing you have to understand Cat, is that Kelek is a very powerful build in its own right. he just wanted to try something different. His firepower and stealth are unsurpassed and I believe that the harvester could have very well lost to him (although, killing relic first, then Kelek using the scroll himself). Nevertheless, I concur with Ashenai on all 3 points. Interrupted actions should be "Changeable". And the Candle of Invocation shouldn't be allowed as well as the Gate spell. Nobody is willing to pay 1000 xp in a campaign just for the heck of it. Neither are you going to have that spell prepared every day.
Magagumo 08-31-04, 11:32 PM	Druid- just to eb the devil's advocate here.. How much high-lvl play have you seen? By 17th-20th level, a party requires 17000-19000 exp to level, meaning that if 13.3 17-19 CR battles are req for them to level, they can net 1270-1480 xp per battle. Now, truthfully, there is no reason for a party to use gate for a challenge equal to their level (as this is meant to be a fairly easy fight). However, a CR+2-+3 (a reasonable and oft occurence in my own 15th lvl campaign at least) can soon turn profitable if the gated creature helps ward off even a single death (or a TPK, if it should come top that). After all, you're still getting 2-3x the exp spent. While a sorceror is not likely to take gate (except for travel purposes), clerics can easily convert it to a mass cure critical wounds, and the wizard usually has enough tricks up his sleeve to compensate. I agree gate should be avoided in this one-shot setting (unless, perhaps the requirement of two wins to level from 16th+ becomes 2 fights in a row to level), but if our rules for one fight-full restore should change... I think it could be a valid tactic (esp. if reserved for your third, and thus most trying, fight).
Ashenai 08-31-04, 11:36 PM	Gate definitely breaks the normal power curve for summons. Just compare the monsters called with Summon Monster IX, and the things you can call with Gate. It does have a commesurate cost, of course, but in the Arena--with only a single fight per level (if you're lucky)--you can easily afford to blow thousands of gold on a single fight. I am normally very much against banning things that are in the Core Rules, but I could accept us banning Gate. It's not balanced, it's not fair, it's not interesting, and it's not really indicative of the build. What does everyone else think of this? If we do this, of course, then anyone who bought a Candle of Invocation (or a Gate scroll, though I don't think anyone has one of those) should get a one-time chance to return their Candle for a full refund. Just to make it clear: I have no real problem with "pokemon", and I still think all of the other Summon spells are fine. I would not support banning any summon spell besides Gate.
Druid Roxors 08-31-04, 11:45 PM	Gate definitely breaks the normal power curve for summons. Just compare the monsters called with Summon Monster IX, and the things you can call with Gate. It does have a commesurate cost, of course, but in the Arena--with only a single fight per level (if you're lucky)--you can easily afford to blow thousands of gold on a single fight. I am normally very much against banning things that are in the Core Rules, but I could accept us banning Gate. It's not balanced, it's not fair, it's not interesting, and it's not really indicative of the build. What does everyone else think of this?I always wonder why they left it like that... They should have changed it to less xp and HD = CL or something like that. Perhaps CL + 2 or something... The power behind it is just ridiculous If we do this, of course, then anyone who bought a Candle of Invocation (or a Gate scroll, though I don't think anyone has one of those) should get a one-time chance to return their Candle for a full refund. Just to make it clear: I have no real problem with "pokemon", and I still think all of the other Summon spells are fine. I would not support banning any summon spell besides Gate.Of course, refund would be fine. (Perhaps having alittle penalty for those who spent a few hours of it) What I mean with pokemon is that the "Pokemon Masters" don't do a thing! This includes Candles and Gate. Summons are fine, they require strategy (full round action, dispellable) and are not that powerful.
Magagumo 09-01-04, 12:15 AM	I would agree with removing gate. Though I would love to see a foolish caster summon a balor with a CL of less than 20.... they aren't going to fight for you, and are likely to maul you for your impudence. A solar, in a similar vein, is likely to simply leave, as your petty fight (with little resolution, as even the evil foes are restored) is far beneath their celestial purpose. Personally, and this is a very biased opinion, I would love to see some discussion on the raw power of Beads of karma.. but that's just me :) (I'm not a banner, but those things are tremendously powerful in these fights, far more so than in a campaign setting).
Druid Roxors 09-01-04, 12:21 AM	Hey, you do realize that you can control twice your CL in hit dice? And that a solar has 22 hit dice? About the beads of karma, I believe they are fine. The reason behind this is that they are either used in fight or as prebuffs for your prebuffs. Both are acceptable because in a campaign, one is not facing a monster with the partie's challenge rating more than once a day. In the case of a single creature, you can control it if its HD do not exceed twice your caster level. A single creature with more HD than twice your caster level can’t be controlled
Tellish_of_Ket 09-01-04, 01:08 AM	What bothers me in the Kelek vs Harvester fight is that it wasn't Kelek vs Harvester but 'Harvester flies into a prismatic wall'. Or imagine this: a 4th level commoner with a candle of invocation burns it to gate something in which kills the lvl 15 Harvester. Is the lvl 4 commoner now more powerful than Harvester? See the problem? That has nothing to do with testing builds, nor is it fun. Thus we should definately use the rules Ash proposed. And perhaps even find a solution to the problem I just stated. How many candles and prismatic walls does Kelek have in a campaign? One. The second and every other fight for weeks will be made without these items. That tells us nothing about the build. Sour grapes....completely sour grapes. It has everything to do with testing builds. I have a UMD type of build. He's made so that he can cast any spell in the phb he wants. What's wrong with that? And it was harvester vs kelek. Since when is it supposed to be a battle between two apes beating their chests? Please don't diss my build and be sore for the loss . You are also fighting Kelek's guile, and as my past has shown that is my greatest weapon. I could say the same that you went out and bought all these nice expensive items to fight me (75% fort plate), a candle to get free spells etc... and spend easily 30k on upgrades and new stuff. Me? I spent a little over 3k. I spent more against Zedarak, with that fight costing me nearly 5 k. So i consider this an improvement. I spent less that i did last level and still won. What else is money used for? I don't gain interest on it so don't you worry about how i spend my money on my characters. I will continue to do so how i see fit and not according to what YOU think a character should be spending. And if you read the first version of the fight i won without the Primsatic Wall anyhow, thank you very much. The ice storm didn't have a save and you'd have died there. Complain all you want, but i beat you both times. With and without. AND just to make sure we're clear if you didn't have that 75% fort armor you'd have died in round 1. And i'm not gonna tell ya how either, that will be for our rematch if you dare to take the armor off....LOL Look, Kelek can't outspell anyone and he can't out melee anyone. So what else do i have left? Stealth, guile, trickery, deception. That's what i bring to the CoCo. You bring raw battle fury that's your strength, so please don't knock me win as cheap because i used my strength. If you want a "naked" (ie. no kit) battle between our two guys i'm all up for it. Just you and me duking it out in the middle of the arena. When Ebelin beat Kelek you didn't hear me yell or scream or pout or cry cheese did ya? Please resepect the win. -ToK **EDIT** @Druid, solar? bah, get a 34 hd ancient gold dragon. BOO-YAH! And yes i will be refunding my candle. :(
Ashenai 09-01-04, 01:20 AM	Just to make my own stance on this clear: I think it was a really clever tactic, and kudos to Tellish for thinking of it. And with that said, I wouldn't like to see it successfully used again (by anyone). The reason is simple: the tactic is so effective that it would make mid-to high level fights against wizards almost pointless. There are very few builds that can evade or survive the Readied Prismatic Wall trick. With a scroll of Prismatic Wall costing only 3000 gp, and a level 10 mage having a 75% chance of successfully casting it, mages that used this tactic would become almost completely unkillable. Using it once was clever. Using it again would be cheesy. :)
Druid Roxors 09-01-04, 01:26 AM	**EDIT** @Druid, solar? bah, get a 34 hd ancient gold dragon. BOO-YAH! And yes i will be refunding my candle. :( Wouldnt that be just Overkill? :P
Moherajikuyx 09-01-04, 06:07 AM	Hi people, I saw the new elders' thread and I was wondering if my proposal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=288949) is mature enough to be discussed. I think it recieved quite some approval.
Pitlords 09-01-04, 08:11 AM	Hi people, I saw the new elders' thread and I was wondering if my proposal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=288949) is mature enough to be discussed. I think it recieved quite some approval. It has been added to the list. ;) thx for the reminder. -ToK
cellardweller 09-01-04, 08:18 AM	It has been added to the list. ;) thx for the reminder. I beleive the polymorph/wildshape + enargment/animal growth/righteous might needs resolution as well.
Druid Roxors 09-01-04, 10:59 AM	@ Jindl: You might want to take a minute to respond to my requests instead of reading and responding to other trivial matters. Pairings are today, if there are any concerns about the Candy Vs Corinthus fight, there will be no time left to discuss. I require but a single answer, "I didnt run it", "You lost", "You won". Plain and simple. I do not have enough time today to ready Corinthus on time if this is going to take any longer. You might as well respond to my PM or Tellish'
Tellish_of_Ket 09-01-04, 11:58 AM	I beleive the polymorph/wildshape + enargment/animal growth/righteous might needs resolution as well. This does not need resolution. polymorph and wilshape are both size altering effects if used to change your size larger than what you already are. Jindl, Myself and Ash all made posts about what is transferrable. They should still be on the top page or two of the Rules Debate thread. -ToK
Caterane 09-01-04, 12:33 PM	@Tok: Wait, Myrridin had me hovering on one spot. In the rerun, he sent me a PM where he said I had survived all silences and most of Relics spells. And not to forget that I counted on the silence ring. Had I known that before that it doesn't work then my tactics would've been different. I admit it was a good trick (even though I wrote it in my tactics that I am not flying through it so again: the pitlord could've told me that it IS possible) but I can't give you more acknoledgement other than being the inventor of this trick. As Ash said, every lvl 10 mage can do this, and every commoner can burn a gate candle so this deserves no pulling one's hat. As I said, I prefer epic fights with titanic clashs, massive spells, and great sneakattackers. Getting killed by a prismatic wall without any chance to react is just plain boring and I am not going to fight anyone who uses this trick. PS: I'll buy a prismatic wall with both Ebelin and Dr.Dre. Why write tactics when I can get the autokill WOOHOO!! Goodbye Arena
Myrridin 09-01-04, 01:34 PM	So Cat, what you're arguing is that I can write this in my tactics to you: I'm going to do X; but if he readies, and shoots an arrow at me, I won't get hit with the arrow. You'll be ok with that? Great!
Jindl 09-01-04, 01:54 PM	@ Jindl: You might want to take a minute to respond to my requests instead of reading and responding to other trivial matters. Pairings are today, if there are any concerns about the Candy Vs Corinthus fight, there will be no time left to discuss. I require but a single answer, "I didnt run it", "You lost", "You won". Plain and simple. I do not have enough time today to ready Corinthus on time if this is going to take any longer. You might as well respond to my PM or Tellish' The fight is in progess. Pitlords has already been notified that it will be late (see the Late Penalty next to my name). My apologies to both you and MotherBast for the late fight. -Jindl
Caterane 09-01-04, 01:57 PM	A notification would've been better. Oh well, perhaps I'm just a bit disappointed that it went like that. I was really looking forward to fight Kelek and if I would've been killed by a 1st round poison assault, that's fine, but the primatic wall was just frustrating :(
Tellish_of_Ket 09-01-04, 02:39 PM	A notification would've been better. Oh well, perhaps I'm just a bit disappointed that it went like that. I was really looking forward to fight Kelek and if I would've been killed by a 1st round poison assault, that's fine, but the primatic wall was just frustrating :( No actually to be honest it wouldn't be a poison assault. Unless i got lucky that is. Maybe next time i guess if we meet again. ;) -ToK
Jindl 09-01-04, 02:55 PM	This does not need resolution. polymorph and wilshape are both size altering effects if used to change your size larger than what you already are. Jindl, Myself and Ash all made posts about what is transferrable. They should still be on the top page or two of the Rules Debate thread. -ToK I did go ahead an repost my findings on the "Animal Growth + Wildshape" thread. -Jindl
Caterane 09-01-04, 03:07 PM	The boards show GMT as 7 PM now but it here in NY (-5 hours) it is 3 PM. It should be like 8 PM in London. :confused:
Myrridin 09-01-04, 03:14 PM	Day light saving time? Just an idea, I could be pretty far off too. :P
Tellish_of_Ket 09-01-04, 03:35 PM	Must be a board error. Even though i have my timezone set for GMT-5, it keeps saying GMT-4, but actually shows my correct EST time. And Daylight Savings Time (DST) isn't until October 31st. 4pm EST is still when the pairings are being done. I guess it means Europeans will have an extra hour to ready their characters, i think. Could just be a glitch. -ToK
Beldin 09-01-04, 04:06 PM	We loose the hour in Germany, too. isn't that "DST" everywhere in the world? At least everywhere where they have clocks...
SnarkHunter 09-01-04, 04:15 PM	Not everyone may be aware of it but out beloved and hardworking GM's have announced a new rule effective next week's fights in this thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299338) Well I, and several other of the elder's haven't really cottoned to it, so I was wondering if you guys could explain your reasoning in a little more detail. Why exactly do you feel this is necessary?
Caterane 09-01-04, 04:25 PM	Not everyone may be aware of it but out beloved and hardworking GM's have announced a new rule effective next week's fights in this thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299338) Well I, and several other of the elder's haven't really cottoned to it, so I was wondering if you guys could explain your reasoning in a little more detail. Why exactly do you feel this is necessary? FYI: The new rule means you don't roll skills but always take 10. Ever since sneaky characters like Kiri or Kelek-who-doesn't-fight LOL showed up, pitlords complained about the mass of move/hide + spot/listen checks which made such fights a work of many hours. Well, we are well aware of the spot/listen problem but it will ease up the pitlord's workload which in our opinion outweighs the disadvantages. Our main concern is to make pitlording as easy and little time-consuming as possible which is more important than having a 2% chance to spot the sneaker. Besides, active spot/listen checks (move action) will still be rolled.
Zerone 09-01-04, 04:36 PM	After having read the debate: balance - spells, random arenas, random positions, pets, it seems that most of you feel that spellcasters are over powered. When talking about fights per day in the DMG, there is a party involved and the opposition is a DM who is not usually out to kill his party at all costs, but to propose a challenge for them. In the CoCo, as a combatant, there is one purpose - kill your opponent. Not only is this the opposite of a DM's purpose, but also the character in question does not have his buddies to heal, soak up damage, scout ahead, or cast buffer spells. Say your fighter has an Int of 8 and a Wis of 8. Are you going to role-play the lack of smarts and common sense that this character has, or are you going to act as yourself and your infinite knowledge of the SRD? Dugh, I'm a Barbarian who can't spell my name, but that wizard just cast his last 4th level spell and should be real low on hit points too. Perhaps I should just wait till his fly spell runs out so he is easier to hit, thus not wasting anything. And he is an Assimar, so I better not throw my vials of acid at him (acid resistance 5), what a waste that would be... I know that we are only responsible for tactics, but I am rather sure that none of you skimped on your tactics because you have an average Wis or Int on your character. Also, say that you are to fight 2 or 3 times per day. Unless characters watched their opponents fights, there is no way of knowing what they have used off their character sheets, etc... So, you want to 'punish' spellcasters because they are more powerful by allowing more fights before they can rest? 1st, wizards should be able to memorize their spells individually to each fight, as you are able to wait to memorize you spells unlike the cleric. 2nd, you want to stop all spellcasters from sleeping between matches while allowing others (mainly non-primary spellcaster characters) the option to be at full hit points. This is a double blow to spellcasters in itself. So the melee character gets full 100 HPs, the spellcaster gets full 30-50 HPs, and now they have to duke it out because the spellcasters are out of spells. Where is the fairness of that? Technically, WOTC believes that the classes are balanced at the same level with full abilities, that is how the rules are written, otherwise there would be individual XP progressions, as there was in 2nd AD&D. Below as noted in the SRD under CR: Encounter Difficulty - An EL that equals that of the party is challenging and should use up about 20% of their resources. The key words here are 'the party' and 'their', as they refer to more than one, usually 4 to a party. Not 1 on 1. Difficulty Factors (main points) - Undead are much more difficult without a cleric. - Animals and plants are much more difficult without a druid. - Evil outsiders are much more difficult without a paladin or cleric (and possibly sorc/wiz). - Multiple combat encounters are more difficult to survive without a fighter, ranger, barbarian, paladin. - Multiple encounters are more difficult without a cleric. These things can change the CR of the fight, especially if it is 1 on 1.
Ashenai 09-01-04, 04:42 PM	Firstly: while this is largely about Hide/MS, those are not the only culprits. Psions will be able to regain focus automatically once they have a Conc bonus of +10. Mages will always take 10 on Concentration rolls: I'm sure everyone can see the weird effects this will have. Secondly: Our main concern is to make pitlording as easy and little time-consuming as possible which is more important than having a 2% chance to spot the sneaker.Sure, that makes sense. But what if the chance to spot the sneaker is not 2%, but 40%? The new system will make him undetectable, too, even though with proper opposed rolls, he'd be sure to be spotted within a few rounds. No sir, I do not like it. Not one bit. I'm all for making pitlording easier, but I don't think opposed skill rolls are something we should skimp on. Naturally, I recognize that the unanimous decision of the three GMs can only be countermanded by the GMs themselves, but I have to go on record as saying that I think it's a terrible idea, and I'm very much against it.
Zerone 09-01-04, 04:44 PM	All previous links are broke, as the hyperlink text has change. This means that all character's linked fights, CoCo links (in the Gladiators & FAQ, etc.), and all other Pre-Server Update links are broken! I think this will cause a great deal of work, but you'll have to go and find the originals and re-link them... Good thing I'm a noob with all of 1 link... ;)
Zerone 09-01-04, 04:50 PM	I know that I have yet to moderate a fight (let alone be in one), but the new 'take 10' rule doesn't seem right, nore is it Core, is it?
Ashenai 09-01-04, 04:52 PM	Technically, WOTC believes that the classes are balanced at the same level with full abilities No, they do not. This is a common misconception. WotC guys have stated in interviews again and again that mages are supposed to be weaker than other characters at low levels, and stronger at high levels. In fact, I remember a quote that said a level 20 Fighter should be about a CR 17 challenge, while a level 20 mage should be about CR 23. The other classes have similarly differing power curves; I brought up mages and fighters because they are the two most extreme examples. As for it being unfair: spellcasters have demonstrated again and again that under the current CoCo rules, they are quite simply undefeatable by melee types beyond level 10, with very few exceptions. I think that should be fixed, if possible. And I speak as someone who plays two pure casters. I only think it's OK to give people full hit points between fights because frankly, healing is really really cheap, and it's simpler just to heal everyone for free than to worry about the price of the CLW potions they'd have to buy. I'd be okay with forcing people to heal themselves between fights, but I think it'd introduce a lot of bother without really changing much. Nice post, though; clear arguments, and supported by sources, too. More people should debate like you. ;)
Jindl 09-01-04, 05:00 PM	Not everyone may be aware of it but out beloved and hardworking GM's have announced a new rule effective next week's fights in this thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299338) Well I, and several other of the elder's haven't really cottoned to it, so I was wondering if you guys could explain your reasoning in a little more detail. Why exactly do you feel this is necessary? As Caterane already stated, the following skills will be exempt from this rule: move action Spot move action Listen UMD Other skills may be added as we continue to evaluate the effects of this rule. The primary benefit is that it will greatly shorten the amount of time required to run fights. This is a huge improvement for the CoCo, and will make the pitlord's life much easier. It may also slightly strengthen the sneaky types, which is not a bad side effect, given the overall impression that they are underpowered. So please, have an open mind, give it a try, and lets see how well it works. @Ash - Then have your PC make a move action Spot/Listen to detect the sneaky guy. And perhaps Concentration may be added to the exempt list, if it seems overpowering. I don't think it will, since the DC's for disruption scale with the damage dealt, but hey, that's why we will evaluate the effects. -Jindl
Ashenai 09-01-04, 05:20 PM	@Ash - Then have your PC make a move action Spot/Listen to detect the sneaky guy.As it happens, my PCs are the sneaky guys. All three of my characters maxed out their Hide/MS skills (though it's cross-class for two of them). I successfully used Hide/MS in several of my old fights, with the old opposed-check rules, even though my characters were cross-class sneakers! I do not feel Hide/MS is underpowered at all; I think it could use a slight boost, but that can be achieved by increasing the amount of cover, not by completely and utterly hosing Spot/Listen. As it happens, these rules changes give a huge boost to my two caster characters (who need the time to buff), and nerf my monk (who'd like to get close to his opponent, but will find it much more difficult to find him, even though he has Spot and Listen maxed). So please, have an open mind, give it a try, and lets see how well it works.I don't think we have a choice. All the same, I just cannot emphasize enough how bad I think this idea is. I've changed my mind about things before, and I'm willing to change it here, if shown that things are OK. But what I expect to see is a mechanic that is vastly exploitable, and one that will be exploited: not by the likes of Kelek, who didn't need this boost to be able to hide, but by the semi-covert folks like mages and psions with skill points to spare. Oh, and incidentally, Zerone is quite correct: it also goes against Core Rules.
Zerone 09-01-04, 06:11 PM	Say I have 2 points from Pitlording matches. I want to play a drow. Can I start with a drow bard level 2 on the Level 2 League, or how do points work? Also, say I want to be an Ogre Mage. It has a LA of +7, and 5d8 racial hit dice. It's ECL is 12 to start, correct? Can you drop the 5d8 racial HD, making him 1 HD, and make it's ECL 7 (or ECL +8 with 1 level of a class? How many Pitlording points can you spend at one time? Can they get rid of Hit Dice? more than 1 LA? I'd look it up for myself, but do not know where to look, and the links are down, and I don't know if I'd get all the answers i seek even if I knew where to look. Thanks for any help!
Ashenai 09-01-04, 07:23 PM	Say I have 2 points from Pitlording matches. I want to play a drow. Can I start with a drow bard level 2 on the Level 2 League, or how do points work?No. The way it works is that the character you create has to be ECL 2. (For an explanation of what ECL--Effective Character Level--is, download the 3.5 FAQ from HERE (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a)). Since the drow race has a Level Adjustment of +2, you can't create a drow with an ECL of 2 (they don't exist). In cases like this (and only in cases like this), you can make a character with the lowest ECL possible (in the case of a drow, that would be a Level 1 charcter, ECL 3), but it will cost you 3 credit points for every ECL the character is above 2. In the case of a drow, you could make a Level 1 Drow Bard for 3 credit points. You could not make a Level 2 Drow Bard at all (no matter how many credits you have): you'd have to get him/her up to Level 2 by fighting. When your Drow is level 1, he/she will be ECL 3, and will fight other ECL 3 characters; level 3 humans or elves, for instance, or level 2 Aasimars. When the character gets to level 2, he/she will be ECL 4, and will fight ECL 4 characters. And so on. A drow character will always be paired with characters two levels above him (assuming the characters he's paired with are LA +0 races). Incidentally, you're allowed a deficit of up to 3 credits, so you can create a Level 1 Drow Bard if you like; it'll take you down to -3 credits. Also, say I want to be an Ogre Mage. It has a LA of +7, and 5d8 racial hit dice. It's ECL is 12 to start, correct?That is correct. And you'd need to spend 30 credits on such a character. Can you drop the 5d8 racial HD, making him 1 HD, and make it's ECL 7 (or ECL +8 with 1 level of a class?Nope. The racial HDs are an important balancing factor. How many Pitlording points can you spend at one time?As many as needed, and as many as you have (well, technically, up to 3 more than you have). Note that you can't choose to spend more credits than you would need to, just to have your character start at a higher level. Credits can only be used to boost characters to their minimum ECL. Can they get rid of Hit Dice?Nope. [Can they get rid of] more than 1 LA?Credits can't be used to "get rid of" LA or Hit Dice at all. When you use up credits, you don't get to make a character more powerful; you simply get to make a character who can (because he must) start at a higher level. For instance an Ogre Mage would have to start at ECL 12, because there are no Ogre Mages weaker than ECL 12 at all. So you'd have to spend 30 credits on him, but he'd still start at ECL 12, and he'd still have to fight level 12 characters.
Battousai2005 09-01-04, 10:31 PM	Ok, would someone tell me why taking 10 on checks like consentation is a good thing? No offense, but Cat, I pray to God you voted no on this with your fanatical "CASTERS ARE OVERPOWERED!!!" arguments. Use magic device, spot, listen... Wow, you know, those HAVE to require the most consentration of any skill. I mean, focusing on a spell while having an arrow shot into your gut and taking 10 just makes so much sense! *sarcasm* Look, there is a description of when you should and should not be able to take 10 on something. Unless you take some strange feat from a non-core book, you can only do it when you are not under stress. I would say being in a life or death battle that quite potentially involves a lot of pain would be a little stressful, don't you? Sorry for the poor attitude, but it has been a long day for me and this was not something I wanted to see. Kage gets through the majority of his fights vs. Casters by forcing them to make consentration checks. If he can't do this, I may just have to retire him. While this is not something I want to do, casters are just not something he can handle without throwing that into the mix. EDIT: Almsot forgot this. I set Rain active. He was listed as an active PC. Any reason he didn't get a fight?
Jindl 09-01-04, 10:47 PM	@Batt - Rain isn't currently on the roster. I think he was added at one point, but that was probably lost in the board reversion. We'll get him added and if possible make a match for him. As for the 10 on Skills rule, it is something we have to test. As I already mentioned, we may decide to make Concentration one of the exempt skills, like UMD and active Spot/Listen checks. But first we are going to test it. It's not that the character is getting to take 10 on everything. It just means that all skill checks are producing an entirely average result. Sure it takes some of the *luck* out of the fight, but it comes with a great benefit to the pitlord. Kage's success in disruption didn't come from spellcasters rolling low on Concentration checks, it came from him doing enough damage to set the Concentration DC really high. Give it a chance and then give us some feedback. ;) -Jindl
Druid Roxors 09-01-04, 11:05 PM	@ Cellardweller / Magagumo: Would any of you like to volunteer for the Real-Time match with one of Cat's Characters? It was going to take place this week and it seems I was not given any of Caterane's Fights. So, I would like to take over one and do it Real-Time!
Magagumo 09-01-04, 11:09 PM	Hmm.. I'm not sure I've been well-informed of this Real-time thingy.. explain what it is.. and why you shouldn't be doing it... (I don't have the time to run Real-time right now..)
MotherBast 09-01-04, 11:16 PM	Just wana go on record as saying the "always take 10" rule is one of the worst ideas i've ever seen. Also, this week I have 0 active characters. I will probably continue to have 0 active characters for some time. My fight amount is set to even, so unless I had 2 characters, I should not have recived a fight. None the less, I was assigned as a pitlord. Not sure yet how many fights I have assingned, but I do know I've already gotten tactics for at least 1. I don't have a problem running a fight, but this one just happens to be psionic, and I know nothing about that field. I'll run a fight since I was assigned one, but I would ask that someone who is running an non-psionic fight please trade with me, so I don't have to speend my week learning 50 pages worth of rules to run one fight. Oh, and Brackin, Dra'kel, and possably Candy, depending on the outcome of her current late fight, are all officialy retired.
Druid Roxors 09-01-04, 11:32 PM	Real-Time Fight: - Both players and the pitlord assign a certain time and date to perform the fight on. - Both players send preliminary tactics to the pitlord, asking about how he handles certain issues and sketching the main tactic. We wouldn't want to discuss it Mid-fight. - Both players print out the arena map and dictate their movement through coordinates to speed things up. - Players send the round's Actions through a messenger service and both recieve updates through a conference or chatroom. How does that sound?
cellardweller 09-02-04, 12:18 AM	@ Cellardweller / Magagumo: Would any of you like to volunteer for the Real-Time match with one of Cat's Characters? It was going to take place this week and it seems I was not given any of Caterane's Fights. So, I would like to take over one and do it Real-Time! I would, except that being an Australian, I live in GMT+8 and 3 in the morning isn't really a good time for me :)
Magagumo 09-02-04, 12:38 AM	I must admit its intriguing, but I will pass on its inception. I'm afraid the wonderful world of academia and fixing a demon car has stolen most of my life for the time being,
Pitlords 09-02-04, 01:36 AM	Not sure yet how many fights I have assingned, but I do know I've already gotten tactics for at least 1. I don't have a problem running a fight, but this one just happens to be psionic, and I know nothing about that field. I'll run a fight since I was assigned one, but I would ask that someone who is running an non-psionic fight please trade with me, so I don't have to speend my week learning 50 pages worth of rules to run one fight. Hey MB, Sorry didn't know you didn't want to run a fight. I gave your fight to Ashenai, and you now have Caterane's monster fight vs the Cauchemar. Hope that makes things easier for ya. -ToK **EDIT** can't give your fight to ashenai because it's his gladiator. Instead i gave it to Magnificate since he pm'd me to pitlord a fight. Forward any tactics you have to him plz? thx.
kedi 09-02-04, 02:54 AM	Hey there, After a long pause, Ive decided joining back COCO as a player, not as a pitlord. Though, I'll use my left credits to bring a half dragon-half halfling of course if I can. Join the Army
Myrridin 09-02-04, 08:30 AM	I don't think that the taking 10 on most skills is a good idea either. You know what Kelek's Hide skill is? +40; that means he averages a 50 with the new rule. Good luck locating him. The fact that he's got a 30 after sniping is pretty extreme as well. I know it's more work, but I think that going away from the Core principle of having all of the checks be opposed is bad. Besides, Hide checks are easy, roll it, and then see if the opponent has a chance to see them, if not, keep going.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-02-04, 08:43 AM	I don't think that the taking 10 on most skills is a good idea either. You know what Kelek's Hide skill is? +40; that means he averages a 50 with the new rule. Good luck locating him. The fact that he's got a 30 after sniping is pretty extreme as well. I know it's more work, but I think that going away from the Core principle of having all of the checks be opposed is bad. Besides, Hide checks are easy, roll it, and then see if the opponent has a chance to see them, if not, keep going. Noone sees Kelek anyhow, so why waste time? Only one or two people in the arena have a chance at spotting him, and i'll be automatically seen with the 'take 10' from 50' away, so it goes both ways. And i get more than just +40. I get +5 elixir, +20 invis, +10 cover, and STILL Jindl's dino-spotter can spot me on a snipe. -ToK
Zpirate 09-02-04, 09:45 AM	Yo, I took a brief hiatus in order to get ready for the oncoming school year. I will have my charachter posted before classes begin for sure, hopefully it won't take me that long. This should be fun!
Jindl 09-02-04, 09:48 AM	Noone sees Kelek anyhow, so why waste time? Only one or two people in the arena have a chance at spotting him, and i'll be automatically seen with the 'take 10' from 50' away, so it goes both ways. And i get more than just +40. I get +5 elixir, +20 invis, +10 cover, and STILL Jindl's dino-spotter can spot me on a snipe. -ToK And as Anna the Ghost of the Arena can tell you, there are more ways to find a sneaker than just using Spot. IIRC, Spike used detect undead to locate Anna. You could just as easily use detect evil, locate object, detect poison, or any number of other spells to locate Kelek. And a single glitterdust reduces his hide by -40. Those are just some ideas off the top of my head. I'm sure you can come up with plenty more ways to negate his hiding. -Jindl
kedi 09-02-04, 10:27 AM	And as Anna the Ghost of the Arena can tell you, there are more ways to find a sneaker than just using Spot. IIRC, Spike used detect undead to locate Anna. You could just as easily use detect evil, locate object, detect poison, or any number of other spells to locate Kelek. And a single glitterdust reduces his hide by -40. Those are just some ideas off the top of my head. I'm sure you can come up with plenty more ways to negate his hiding. -JindlNatural 20? :) Tremorsense, Blindsight, Scenting the poison; come to my mind.
Druid Roxors 09-02-04, 10:59 AM	So, it seems this week is pretty heavy on you guys and so it is for me. I retire my offer to run a real-time fight at least until next week. Sorry guys :(
Tellish_of_Ket 09-02-04, 11:22 AM	Those are just some ideas off the top of my head. I'm sure you can come up with plenty more ways to negate his hiding. -Jindl And speaking of Spike, he's a dwarf and with darkvision, he cancelled mag's HiPS ability away as well and combined that with spiders (tremorsense) and his elephant (scent) to seek him out. Darkvision cancells Kelek's HiPS ability and that's a huge part of his ability to hide and get away as well without needing cover. You just have to be creative is all. -ToK
Ethendril 09-02-04, 12:00 PM	Well, I'm interested in seeing how the take 10 rule goes, though I also think it might be exploited. But since I think sneakers are the weakest class here (shut up, Kelek ;) ), why not? The main problem I see with the take 10 rule is that there are many items to boost hide/move silently, but few to boost spot listen, and that ranged penalties also help the hider. A character like Zorander, with far shot and a distance bow, should thrive now using snipe. But like I said, most sneakers haven't done that well so far, so maybe it will help them. Oh, and welcome back Kedi!
Jindl 09-02-04, 12:03 PM	@Eth - Most of the items that boost hide/ms don't stack. Almost all of them provide competence bonuses (cloak of elvenkind, ring of chameleon power, robe of blending, shadow armor, elixer of hiding, etc). So you really can't boost it as much as you may think. -Jindl
Ethendril 09-02-04, 12:21 PM	Jindl: I wasn't talking about stacking. What I meant was that you can get a +15 bonus to hide using armor of shadow (greater), while spot only gets +5 from eyes of the eagle. You can get +15 move silently, but I can't think of an item that enhances listen. So I just meant that there are items that give a greater bonus to the sneaker, while the spoter has lower enhancements + distance penalties to contend with. I'm thinking about Zorander with far shot and a composite longbow of distance. He always moves to maximum range and snipes. Taking 10, I'm not sure most would ever see him. But like I said, I think it's worth a try since rogues need the most help here.
kedi 09-02-04, 01:49 PM	Oh, and welcome back Kedi!:) Thanks. There's Robe of the Eagle too which gives +10 competence bonus to spot checks. Rogue's are pretty bad at low levels. As I love rogueish characters I used to check Kelek and as ToK would second he had many loses. Many. But than somehow with his legendary stealth he is the only 16th level gladiator.
Jindl 09-02-04, 02:25 PM	:) Thanks. There's Robe of the Eagle too which gives +10 competence bonus to spot checks. Rogue's are pretty bad at low levels. As I love rogueish characters I used to check Kelek and as ToK would second he had many loses. Many. But than somehow with his legendary stealth he is the only 16th level gladiator. I'm not familiar with that item. Where is it found? Although Kelek is an exceptional build and Tellish uses great tactics, there would be another 16th level gladiator had some fights not been delayed. Level 17 was supposed to be the level where there could be only 1 gladiator. @Eth - Remember, you could always choose to use a move action to actively roll a Spot/Listen. And your roll would be vs Zorander's 10+mod-sniping. There are other tactical issues, like if your facing such a character, you should go to the central obstacle, both to give yourself cover and to limit the distance your opponent could snipe from, until you locate him. There really are lots of ways to counter this sniping stuff. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 09-02-04, 02:47 PM	Kelek isn't the most optimized sleath-build/UMD/Assassin either. I've thought of many better builds. It's just time comsuming to play one and tactics generally have to be well thought out and detailed to make it work. It's definately not for everyone. And he was with the initial rush toward the high levels but i retired him because no one had the patience to play him properly for me (hence many losses). But since those days and an influx of new and more patient pitlords, i brought him out and he's sky-rocketed like he should have...hehe or at least like i thought he should have. What would i do different given another 16th level asn? maybe tiny hafling for one...that's another +4 to his hide right there? ;) I'd probably ditch the one wizard level and find somehow to take dodge/mobility for duelist for the initiative bonus. As i'm sure anyone can see, if he loses init he's dead. Not much guess-work needed there, so that alone is counter-optimization. lol There are many things i would do to improve the build. I rely almost solely on my tactics and diversity to win. It's a nice feeling when you got the entire phb to chose from spells. -ToK
Magagumo 09-02-04, 03:26 PM	I would agree that Conc and UMD should at least be reserved.... well, UMD at least (nothing against Kelek, but the fact that a 1=auto-fail+ means we need rolls). I suppose I can see it being given a try *shrug* Just no UMD :P
Myrridin 09-02-04, 03:35 PM	We could use a fifth player in the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil game that I'm running. Unfortunately Aramil will have to drop out due to commitments to school. Mag, you have first shot. I know you're running Banewarrens, so it's fine with me if you're too busy. Sindorin and then Druid, you're next, but also playing in Banewarrens. For that reason, I'll allow others to jump in before you guys, if they want.
Jindl 09-02-04, 03:40 PM	We could use a fifth player in the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil game that I'm running. Unfortunately Aramil will have to drop out due to commitments to school. Mag, you have first shot. I know you're running Banewarrens, so it's fine with me if you're too busy. Sindorin and then Druid, you're next, but also playing in Banewarrens. For that reason, I'll allow others to jump in before you guys, if they want. You'll be strongly encouraged to play a cleric. And there is no psionics. -Jindl
Magagumo 09-02-04, 03:40 PM	If I'm first on the list, I'd still be up for it- it all takes time, but its nicely spaced out, you klnow? (I can spend 15 min on bane and let it sit for the day as ppl post ;)) If youll have me, just PM me with how you would like to introduce my character (I sent you a prelim idea, and can quickly finsih it off if you approve). Let me know dude, I'm here :).
Myrridin 09-02-04, 03:46 PM	Mag: check your PM's. Mag has claimed the spot. I will most likely introduce his character when the party returns to Hommlett (which I think will be soon, given the amount of unidetified magical stuff they have:)).
Tellish_of_Ket 09-02-04, 03:50 PM	I would agree that Conc and UMD should at least be reserved.... well, UMD at least (nothing against Kelek, but the fact that a 1=auto-fail+ means we need rolls). I suppose I can see it being given a try *shrug* Just no UMD :P It doesn't apply to UMD. I will still have to make all my rolls. :( -ToK
kedi 09-02-04, 04:04 PM	I'm not familiar with that item. Where is it found? -JindlSRD, Magic Items V. :)
kattattack22 09-02-04, 04:38 PM	hmmm, I only found this.. Robe of Eyes: This valuable garment appears to be a normal robe until it is put on. Its wearer is able to see in all directions at the same moment due to scores of visible, magical eyelike patterns that adorn the robe. She also gains 120-foot darkvision. The robe of eyes sees all forms of invisible or ethereal things within 120 feet. The wearer of a robe of eyes gains a +10 competence bonus on Search checks and Spot checks. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC even when flat-footed, and she can’t be flanked. However, she is not able to avert her eyes or close her eyes when confronted by a creature with a gaze attack. A light or continual flame spell cast directly on a robe of eyes causes it to be blinded for 1d3 minutes. A daylight spell blinds it for 2d4 minutes. Moderate divination; CL 11th; Craft Wondrous Item, true seeing; Price 120,000 gp;Weight 1 lb.
Caterane 09-02-04, 05:07 PM	Question: Project image and dimension door. Is the LOE broken if you use dimension door? Here's the SRD: You must maintain a line of effect to the projected image at all times. If your line of effect is obstructed, the spell ends. If you use dimension door, teleport, planeshift, or a similar spell that breaks your line of effect, even momentarily, the spell ends. IMO this is 100% clear that your project image will end if you dimension door. However, I have heard an argument that it could be read as "dimension door AND break your line of effect" which would mean you could use dimension door and keep the projected image if you appear within LOE. Opinions?
Jindl 09-02-04, 05:12 PM	LOE continues through coexistent planes (Ethereal and Shadow) but not through coterminent planes (Astral). So any spell that even for a moment causes the character to pass through the astral plane will break line of effect. DD and Teleport both pass through the Astral Plane. Blink, Etherealness, the Shadowdancer's Shadow Jump are all examples of similar spells that do not break line of effect. -Jindl
Ashenai 09-02-04, 05:23 PM	Aaah. I understand now. I never considered the fact that DimDoor and Teleport shunt you into another plane momentarily. So yes, DimDoor and Teleport will disrupt Project Image.
Pitlords 09-02-04, 05:27 PM	A new update for the World Thread, thanks to Kattattack22 who provided us with it. If anyone of you has some things he wants to see in the World thread, email or PM them to me and it will be added to the World thread. Let us build the World of Gladius together. Cat From the Chronicles of Arkin Jozil In speaking with Johan Talyana, I learned a great deal about a deity that had eluded my scholarly pursuit. Here is a recount of our conversation: "I have searched every religious tome in Gladius, yet I cannot find any mention of your Bradobaris. What can you tell me of him?" "Why I am surprised Arkin that you haven't heard of him. He isn't a great diety to be sure, but he is one of our own. He supports those like me, adventurer for the sake of adventure. He is the patron of bards, rogues, halflings, and anyone willing to take a risk now and then." "Interesting, he could almost be the offspring of Yondhalla and Olidammara." "Except that he is not and is not even worshipped on the world belonging to those deities." "True, but I just postulated the idea is all." "Well don't next time." "When I failed to respond, Johan's face light up as a new idea entered his head." "You might find this of interest, in the world of Faerun this is a god of death similar to the Harvester except that he would trap innocent souls denying them the next life." A chill raced across the back at the tought of the horrible god. "Myrkul." "Right, Bradobaris snuck into the citadel of Myrkul and stole the souls of ten thousand innocents, leaving a vase of flowers and a box of erotically shaped chocolates in their place. I think about it everytime I see the Harvesters. It makes me feel that its my duty to jibe at them a little." The last statement worried me for a second, but reminded myself the powerful allies Johan had met in his travels and dismissed my worry. Obviously, Johan served Bradobaris well and been rewarded with great powers. I can only hope my devotion to Boccob and the study of magic can help me against my foes as Johan's faith and allies have helped him.
MysticMonk2005 09-02-04, 08:30 PM	Sorry about that. The comp is fixed. I am deleting Krog and Arcanus and won't be pitlording.
kedi 09-03-04, 02:28 AM	I was wondering if my character I've posted is accepted. <<Here>>
Pitlords 09-03-04, 10:56 AM	Krog and Arcanus have been deleted New Characters added: Shadowvar (Kedi), Yuri (Druid Roxors), Ragnarr (scaryfroman) Please send such information to the Pitlord Account! - Cat Edit: The Quickstart Guide is updated and ready again. Just waiting on Mo to renew the links at the beginning. @Druid: Ah, but humans work so much better under pressure :D
Druid Roxors 09-03-04, 10:59 AM	Yuri was not ready yet, which is why I didnt send it to the Pitlords Account. I still need equipment and a few powers.
kedi 09-03-04, 11:01 AM	Krog and Arcanus have been deleted New Characters added: Shadowvar (Kedi), Yuri (Druid Roxors), Ragnarr (scaryfroman) Please send such information to the Pitlord Account! Ok, I'll notify via PM next time. (:
barrel_master 09-03-04, 01:30 PM	Ummm... are we still able to see 'last modified' dates anymore?
Jindl 09-03-04, 02:47 PM	Ummm... are we still able to see 'last modified' dates anymore? If you're referring to on the character sheets, you have to scroll through the gladiator's thread to see them. Following the link on the roster does not allow you to see the last edited date/time. -Jindl
Caterane 09-03-04, 04:33 PM	Alright, first fight finished. I made sure I didn't steal anyone's story again Ildechai vs Mr.Big (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4298507&posted=1#post4298507) Enjoy! Edit: Who wants to pitlord the Aemon vs Ebelin fight? Edit2: Ash, go and roll the online roller, name: Dismiss Familiar and give us a link.
Ashenai 09-03-04, 04:38 PM	Awww, no story. :( Thanks for running the fight, Cat. Just one concern: you didn't have Ildechai dismiss his familiar. This is not a problem if we're not enforcing the XP loss for losing familiars (are we?), but if we are, I need to dismiss Sethas in the fight, because I don't want to auto-fail my Fort save. Edit: Okay. It has to be a single word, so it's going to be Dismiss_Familiar. Edit2: The roll (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=Dismiss_Familiar ) is a 7, +5 is 12 against DC 15, fail. WAAAAAH! :weep: :bigeyes: :weep: That just cost me 6000 gp. Mommy, it hurts! :( And you really should have done a story, Cat. ;)
Caterane 09-03-04, 06:47 PM	@Ash: that's still better than the 5 I rolled at home ;) Ok, next fight from Caterane Mass Productions: Bilo Darkleaf vs Angosh (13) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4299434&posted=1#post4299434) 100% not stolen!! LOL Ok, I stop it Edit: Question: Do caster levels stack? Like 5 beads of Karma = +20 CL??
Ashenai 09-03-04, 08:15 PM	Question: Do caster levels stack? Like 5 beads of Karma = +20 CL?? Well, nothing says they don't. But they don't. For what should be obvious reasons. :)
Jindl 09-03-04, 08:35 PM	Well, nothing says they don't. But they don't. For what should be obvious reasons. :) Unnamed bonuses to caster levels from different sources would stack. So, a bead of karma would stack with +1 caster level from the Evil domain, when casting Evil spells, which would stack with the +1 caster level from death knell, which does stack with that ioun stone that grants +1 caster level. Yep, I'm making an evil cleric who can eventually get +7 CL to use when casting Blasphemy ... (oh wait, I already made her. :D How many of you remember Evillyn? If you don't, you'll get to see her again soon ...) As long as they are from different sources, unnamed bonuses stack. Two beads of karma do not stack. -Jindl
Caterane 09-03-04, 09:14 PM	Ah, a pity, two levels of pure bead buying would've enabled me to enter with 10/min lvl spells prebuffed. Well, it's better that way and the Red Wizard PrC's spellpower progression backs up Jindl's theory. @Jindl: why the effort? Just buy a scroll at CL 20
Tellish_of_Ket 09-04-04, 01:15 AM	Unnamed bonuses to caster levels from different sources would stack. So, a bead of karma would stack with +1 caster level from the Evil domain, when casting Evil spells, which would stack with the +1 caster level from death knell, which does stack with that ioun stone that grants +1 caster level. Yep, I'm making an evil cleric who can eventually get +7 CL to use when casting Blasphemy ... (oh wait, I already made her. :D How many of you remember Evillyn? If you don't, you'll get to see her again soon ...) As long as they are from different sources, unnamed bonuses stack. Two beads of karma do not stack. -Jindl Is Evillyn the character you made before Jindl? I've thought about doing something along those lines as well. Chaotic Evil cleric with a massive stacking of bonuses. Looks like someone will do it first. It will be very interesting to see it work that's for sure. @Cat, the problem with the CL scrolls is he'll need to make caster level check, and the save will be the minimum. I'm sure Evillyn's saves will be MUCH higher than a scroll of the same version and she won't need to make caster level checks. -ToK
Caterane 09-04-04, 03:16 AM	@Ray: 1) Blasphemy/Holy word has no save 2) By the time he can cast Blasphemy, it won't be a problem to activate a CL 20 scroll, especially not with beads of karma and the ion stone. You only fail on a 1.
kedi 09-04-04, 08:47 AM	Gonna ask a pretty dumb question: Who's the Joe?
Zerone 09-04-04, 01:48 PM	In 3.0, there was the 'Psionics Are Different' section. I cannot find anywhere here if there is a 3.5 rule like that or how it is run on the CoCo. Basically, does 'Enchantment Resistance' (elves, still mind, slippery mind, etc.) apply the same to psionics as it does to magic? EDIT: Also, can you use Catfall vs a successful trip attack?
KerlanRayne 09-04-04, 02:51 PM	Announcement Regarding New Links There are now two options to link fights on your character sheet. First, at the top right hand corner of every post is a link that when clicked, will only show that post. You can just use the {URL} tag and copy/paste the whole link there. Another option is to use the Post Number like before but with the new {POST} tags. Examples: - Link to Cyric Tor using the {URL} Tag. Cyric Tor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3463844&postcount=149) Cyric Tor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3463844&postcount=149)- Link to Grym Mordib using the {POST} Tag. Grym Mordib Grym Mordib I personally like the new {POST} tag, it's shorter. Not sure if you can still link to a single post while still showing the whole thread instead of just that post. KerlanRayne
Kaigan 09-04-04, 09:07 PM	Just wondering if you guys noticed my new character? She was set up to be fighting this week but i don't see her. Thanks
Pitlords 09-04-04, 10:38 PM	@Kerlan: Here's the link to move to a post without going single post: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=NUMBER#postNUMBER @all: All links in the World thread are fully funcional again! I also want to remind you that every bit of information or contribution to the World thread is highly welcomed! @Kaigan: Name? Link? Sorry for that but it has been missed apparently. If you want to make sure that won't happen again, send a PM to the pitlord account. Cat
Caterane 09-05-04, 02:14 AM	And the third strike Octavian vs Zephin (11) Ok, my fights are done for this week
Zerone 09-05-04, 04:23 AM	If I have a +4 LA race with 1 Racial Hit Dice, it would be an ECL 5 character (1 class and 4 LA). If I wanted to start out at ECL 6, I would need 12 Pitlord Points, right? It would have 2 class levels and 4 LA, correct? And it would have +1 ability modifier (Level 4) and 2 Level Feats (Levels 3 & 6), correct? Leadership: When you win a fight, does your cohort advance a level as well? I would also like to be added to the list of Active Pitlords, and as is obvious, would like to accumulate some points fast! :smirk: I've sent a PM to the Pitlords. Is there anything else I need to do? I also posted some questions on the last page, but I’ll re-list them here. In 3.0, there was the 'Psionics Are Different' section. I cannot find anywhere here if there is a 3.5 rule like that or how it is run on the CoCo. Basically, does 'Enchantment Resistance' (elves, still mind, slippery mind, etc.) apply the same to psionics as it does to magic? Can you use the psionic power Catfall vs a successful trip attack to land on your feet instead of prone? Thanks for the help! :D
Beldin 09-05-04, 08:54 AM	- LA races: you have to start with the minimum possible level, which would be 5 in your case: 4La and one racial hit dice or 4La and one class level. - A monster’s total Hit Dice, not its ECL, determine its acquisition of feats and ability score increases, the LA does not count. your first increase would be at level 8 - Your leadership ally advances a bit slower than you - your leadership score determines its level. look it up ind the srd under the leadership feat - send a pm to the pitlords account and iclude your email address. Don't be too mad if they forget adding you, though ;) - no idea abbout psionics, sorry
Tellish_of_Ket 09-05-04, 02:08 PM	- LA races: you have to start with the minimum possible level, which would be 5 in your case: 4La and one racial hit dice or 4La and one class level. - A monster’s total Hit Dice, not its ECL, determine its acquisition of feats and ability score increases, the LA does not count. your first increase would be at level 8 - Your leadership ally advances a bit slower than you - your leadership score determines its level. look it up ind the srd under the leadership feat - send a pm to the pitlords account and iclude your email address. Don't be too mad if they forget adding you, though ;) - no idea abbout psionics, sorry Only acquiring your cohort determines his/her starting level. Your cohort levels with you after every fight just like the gladiator does. -ToK
Ashenai 09-05-04, 03:17 PM	Um... er. I did not know that. In that case, can Ildechai wait to recruit a cohort until level 7, please? His cohort had absolutely zero impact on the fight, and is two levels lower than I'd like him to be. Ildechai will still have dismissed his familiar, of course, and lost the 6000 gp for it.
Caterane 09-05-04, 03:49 PM	Only acquiring your cohort determines his/her starting level. Your cohort levels with you after every fight just like the gladiator does. -ToK Are you sure on this Tellish? I'd like to hear some other confirmations (Jindl?). IMO your leadership score determines your ally level, like in a real campaign. Imagine your character dies twice and is now the same level as your cohort. That's weird. Everything points to that the cohort level uses the table in the DMG, at the point of acquiring him, aswell as thereafter. Question: A metamagic spell counts as the original level in all regards (like empowered fireball = 3rd level spell). Can I now channel an empowered fireball through a lesser metamagic rod?
Magagumo 09-05-04, 04:20 PM	A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed...only the feats possessed by the weilder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast Since it seems it still remains a 3rd level spell, I would agree that the rod may be used.
Ashenai 09-05-04, 04:50 PM	The Professor vs. Bruno is up. I wish I could say that it was a mighty battle of arcane might, but... well, it was more like 9 rounds of buffing and 4 rounds of utter domination by the eventual victor. Oh well, still rather fun to mod. :) EDIT: Hang on, having a spot of trouble posting the fight for some reason. Can't understand why; I can otherwise post just fine. Working on it. EDIT 2: I'm thinking it was probably over the character limit. I like how the new boards warn you about this by keeping you waiting for five minutes and then barfing back a "Timeout - Connection reset by peer" error. Classy! ...Anyway, posted for real now. :)
Magnificate 09-05-04, 05:20 PM	I regret to inform I am forced to leave Core Coliseum. And this time it is not just for 3 weeks. I just hope I have time to visit this forum once for a while and read some fights.
Magagumo 09-05-04, 05:30 PM	Wrong Thread
Beldin 09-05-04, 05:41 PM	Magnificate, sorry to see you leaving. If its is only lack of time -I hope it is- then you may consider to keep Domai active and resign only from modding a fight. You do not have to fight every week and tactics take ...20 minutes? We are loosing very many members lately (Mercy, Arstimis, Hatzinger, Aramil, ..., and now Magnificate) I wonder why?
Ashenai 09-05-04, 06:07 PM	EDIT: Um... also wrong thread.
Caterane 09-05-04, 09:05 PM	So, the Professor is 15th level. The question is now: do we allow the non-sense mutli-cheese nobrainer I-don't-have-to-write-tactics trick with a readied Prismatic Wall, where even an Expert1/Commoner14 could win against a killer build? Or do we ban this trick (or at least restrict it to flyers with average and worse maneuverability)? Tell me, because I will copy prismatic wall in my spellbook if we allow this to kill everyone who makes a 5ft step.
Zerone 09-05-04, 10:58 PM	I know that the CoCo is supposed to be core only with no exceptions, but the core rules are not perfect. We as gamers are allowed to change the rules as we see fit, and I believe that we should not attempt to change the rules unless there is something wrong about them. However, here in the CoCo, there is something wrong with the rules if there is a grossly unfair advantage to one particular thing, such as a particular spell, action, item, etc… as in the case with the Prismatic Wall. This is where I re-introduce the 'Banned List'. Yes, I know the 'Banned List' is against the CoCo ideals, but so is an advantage where moving means certain death. For all of you who will put up a stink or wish do deny the concept of a 'Banned List', I propose this… Have two types of fights, an 'Open Fight' (anything goes) and a 'Restricted Fight' (must follow the 'Banned List'). This way people who desire to have a fair fight to test their build in an equal setting have that option, while others who wish to use proven cheese tactics against each other have that option. Then, when a new cheese tactic has been developed, it either goes on the banned list or is judged fair play, following some form of vote, etc. Another idea that I was toying with is to have a set number of random effects occur on the battlefield, with a different list for different levels. This way, certain abilities will be more important and not ignored, because they have a chance to greatly affect the battle. I'm not at home right now and do not have the list here, but here is a brief list of some of the effects (remember, they would be different for different level fights): - Night - Day - Half filled with liquid type (water, lava, ice, toxic gas, etc.) - Elemental damage - Strong winds - No weapons of a particular type - No spells of a particular school - No psionics of a particular discipline - Receive X damage at end of each round - Receive X health at end of each round - Lightning storm (% chance to be struck by lightning) - Random neutral animal/character/monster in arena (against everyone) Lemmie know wht you think. The 'Random Effect Table' would be an option to the 'multiple fights in a day' option. Zerone
Tellish_of_Ket 09-05-04, 11:03 PM	So, the Professor is 15th level. The question is now: do we allow the non-sense mutli-cheese nobrainer I-don't-have-to-write-tactics trick with a readied Prismatic Wall, where even an Expert1/Commoner14 could win against a killer build? Or do we ban this trick (or at least restrict it to flyers with average and worse maneuverability)? Tell me, because I will copy prismatic wall in my spellbook if we allow this to kill everyone who makes a 5ft step. You can't ready against a 5' step because you have to ready against something you can discern. You don't intrinsincly know if your opponent will only move 5', 10' or do a double move. And as far as i'm concerned banning a "trick" really isn't fair when you haven't even taken the time to contemplate it's defeat. You may wish to continue to flame my "trick" and not respect/consider it a win, but frankly i'm getting a little annoyed. I have already thought of several ways around it, so maybe you should do the same instead of always putting me down. -ToK
Caterane 09-06-04, 12:18 AM	So what's the counter you found? Not moving? LOL Or Horizon-walker-dimension door around because we're on a shifting plane? :rolleyes: Tellish, I've said it before and will say it again: every expert/commoner could do this trick. Does this mean that the commoner is a killer build? And for your trick, think about this: we have challenged each other. I have seen the scroll of prismatic wall before the pairings. I have even mentioned in my tactics that I am not flying through it. I was absolutely convinced that this doesn't work and had I known that prismatic wall means auto-kill with no fight taking place I wouldn't have accepted. You have won due to the wall and that's fine. Enjoy your notch. If others agree with you that we allow the prismawall trick, cool, I can cast it 3 times per day and don't have to think about complicated tactics anymore. @Zerone: the random events don't reflect a campaign, and the other suggestions make pitlording harder, something we don't want to see. But keep up the good work!
Ashenai 09-06-04, 05:46 AM	Prismatic Wall should not be banned. If used as intended (a defensive spell), it is by no means broken. All we have to do is modify the way ready actions work (and it moght not even really be a modification, just a clarification; the core rules are really vague). I have a proposal regarding ready actions that will solve a lot of exploits besides Prismatic Wall (even though most of the other exploits have never been used yet). The "Banned List" needs one whole spell on it: Gate. Time Stop should also be on the "watch list", but I'm not at all sure it has to be banned. It's very powerful, but it is a level 9 spell, after all.
MotherBast 09-06-04, 08:22 AM	Harvy vs. Nighmare posted, as if this fight even needed to be run. Can we say auto-win? anyway, some clerafacations on Leadership. In a "real" D&D game, cohorts gain 1/2 share of EXP from encountes, meaning they will level on their own, slowly being outpased by their leaders. Of course, in a real game, a leader will change cohorts if the current one is left behind, or send the cohort on an "independent" mission to gain EXP. The cohort's MAX level is still limited by that of his leader's leadership score, however. For instance, if the cohort is at max level, and due to some crazy circumstance, manages to get enough EXP to level while his leader come up a few EXP short, the cohort will stop at 1 EXP away from leveling, exactly as would happen if a player got enough EXP to level more than 1 time in a single fight, they stop 1 EXP from the second level. Now, next fight the Leader will level, and the cohort will then level to be at his new "max level." Thats how it works in a "real" game. Here in the COCO, we don't use EXP, so basicly, your Cohort is always at its MAX level. Which basicly means that if your character levels, then the cohort also levels. The only time this might be differnt is if you gain an item or stat up that makes you leadership score high enough to level you cohort twice, or around level 17, when the max level for cohorts drops to 3 lower than the leader instead of 2, meaning your cohort wont level when going from 16 to 17. So, basicly in the CoCo, cohorts do level when you do. The only exceptions would be if leveling puts the cohort over its max level, it dosen't level, and second, if you gain enough leadership to allow it to gain more than one level without exceeding its max level. Hope that helps.
Magagumo 09-06-04, 08:45 AM	One clarification, MB< they don't actually earn "half," but rather an exact percentage of exp equal tot he ratio between their level, and their leader's (PC). So, if PC is 14th, and cohort is 12th, and PC somehow gets 14k in one day (exact amount needed to level), the cohort also gets 12k exp (exact amount equal to level). Not sure how the cohort is meant to catch up if raised from the dead *shrug*.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-06-04, 10:54 AM	Another reason why that wouldn't work is the leadership score is only checked when you acquire it. After that everything is dependent upon the level of the leader vs the cohort. The cohort can adventure on his/her own and gain enough exp to equal the leader. Don't worry, i'm not gonna say, "Only my cohort fights this time" just to gain a level while i stay at the same ECL to fight next week with a cohort one level higher. lol But the level at which the cohort was acquired need to be written down on the sheet and at what ECL it was. That's the way i have it with Kelek, so it will be easy to reference what level he should be. I got him at my 15th level, and he was 10th. So that means by 20th, he'll be 15th, easy as pie. -ToK
Myrridin 09-06-04, 11:21 AM	Originally found on the Harvester's Fight Record 18: Prismatic wall (no opponoment)............Failed to harvest What sour grapes Cat. It was a legitimate tactic at the time it was used.
Zerone 09-06-04, 12:26 PM	Are fights every week, or every 2 weeks? Also, does anyone know the answer to the psionics resistance question posted above?
Caterane 09-06-04, 12:47 PM	Another reason why that wouldn't work is the leadership score is only checked when you acquire it. After that everything is dependent upon the level of the leader vs the cohort. The cohort can adventure on his/her own and gain enough exp to equal the leader. Don't worry, i'm not gonna say, "Only my cohort fights this time" just to gain a level while i stay at the same ECL to fight next week with a cohort one level higher. lol But the level at which the cohort was acquired need to be written down on the sheet and at what ECL it was. That's the way i have it with Kelek, so it will be easy to reference what level he should be. I got him at my 15th level, and he was 10th. So that means by 20th, he'll be 15th, easy as pie. -ToK So if I drink a potion of eagles splendor at the point of acquiring him I get a higher one and he stays? It's also weird to check at which level it has been acquired. It seems like everyone agrees with Tellishs version but I'd like to hear Jindl first. It just seems not right to me, and the 1/2 XP for the cohort is reflected in the leadership table and backs my theory up. @Myrridin: I'm not even sure if this is a legitimate tactic. This would make it the most powerful spell ever written! Compare a forced walk through a prismawall with other spells. I don't think it was intended to be used that way. But I'll change it on my sheet. That fight still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like a god came down and crashed me while I fought Kelek.
Beldin 09-06-04, 03:01 PM	how can I decrease the size of an image ? This one
Magagumo 09-06-04, 03:45 PM	Ender has been MIA for over 2 weeks now, so I'm going to be opening up the Banewarrens slot (once this combat finally fnishes ;)) to the waiting list. Ashenai has already privately informed me that he can't do it, so you're next in line Motherbast. If MB doesn't want to do it... it opens up to the rest of the Coliseum, first come, first serve. Edit: Also, Bruno is disgusted by his companion, Bilo's, poor assumptions and utterly failure (Sorry Snark :P) against Angosh. Desiring to show him the proper way to fight, and thus absolve hismelf of his own poor perfomance, he challenges Angosh this week.
Zerone 09-06-04, 04:26 PM	Could one of the members with the 'Pitlords' account re-link these links or give me new ones? Be sure to read the important guidelines, in case of fights that involve the following aspects of the rules (warm thanks to Tellish_of_Ket): >Hide/Spot and Move Silently/Listen: very important also with invisible pcs. >Undead Companions raised with Animate Dead. >Charge & Jump/Balance, when the things are combinable >Mounted Combat: It's possible to double move & attack They are found on page 1 of the Gladiators & FAQ thread, exact post found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2700272&postcount=6), under the Pitlords heading. Thanks. :D
Caterane 09-06-04, 04:54 PM	Could one of the members with the 'Pitlords' account re-link these links or give me new ones? They are found on page 1 of the Gladiators & FAQ thread, exact post found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2700272&postcount=6), under the Pitlords heading. Thanks. :D As always: PM to the pitlords account
Jindl 09-06-04, 05:08 PM	My Input to the discussions: Prismatic Wall A perfectly legitimate tactic (and brilliant as well). Ways to defeat it: High SR, good saves, teleport, dimension door, staying still, project image, trickery. Obviously, mounted builds are likely to have the most trouble with this. I think as time goes on, more people will come up with counters. I say it stays. Leadership Score -> Cohort Level Tellish is correct that the DMG does not list anything saying what happens if the cohort exceeds the max level appropriate for your leadership score. Personally, I think this is an ommission, because in 3.0 it was clearly there (much like the ommission they made about losing your PrC abilities if you lost the qualifiers, you know the rule that prevented your human wizard from polymoprhing into an elf to become a bladesinger, then turning back human and keeping all the class abilities...) We have unlimited time between battles. During this time, PC's craft, buy, sell, and acquire allies. It is reasonable that given the amount of time between each fight, the cohort's max level must be readjusted to match the leadership score after each fight. So if your score decreases (because you gained a familiar, changed your alignment, sold your cloak of charisma +4, etc) then your cohort will reduce in level to the new maximum in between fights. So a loss of Cha during the fight will have no effect on your ally's status as a cohort. No, he wasn't level drained. Instead, his identical twin of the appropriate level arrived. Your cohort will always be the appropriate level for your leadership score. This also resolves the advancement issues. A couple more points: @Cat - There is no set time it takes to acquire a cohort, therefore it is illogical to think that a potion: eagle's splendor would last during the entire process. Temporary items won't work for leadership score. Stat-boosting magic items will. @MB - Yes the cohort may gain less XP, but he also gains more XP as a lower level character defeating the same CR. The math actually works out where the cohort remains 2 levels behind the leader. Banned List *Gate - Using this spell outside of combat is already on the list. I'm not convinced that we should ban it within combat, though that aspect should be on the watch list. *Polymorph Any Object - Also on the watch list. *Prismatic Wall - On the watch list. *Time Stop - On the watch list. Note: Spells on the watch list are certainly allowed, but as the name implies, they are being evaluated. Losing Players @Beldin - Yes, some are disappearing. I think the majority are because school is in full swing and (unfortunately) must take priority over playing in the CoCo. The same thing happened at this time last year. Don't worry, more players will show up (and some of the departed will return). Rod of lesser metamagic The metamagic rods work on spell slots up to the allowed level. An empowered fireball uses a 5th level spell slot, and could not be enhanced by a lesser metamagic rod. Well, I hope I covered everything. -Jindl
Magagumo 09-06-04, 05:10 PM	One note, Jindl, is that the Metamagic rods clearly state that only one may be used per spell.
Jindl 09-06-04, 05:13 PM	One note, Jindl, is that the Metamagic rods clearly state that only one may be used per spell. Thanks, I hadn't noticed that. -Jindl
MotherBast 09-06-04, 05:30 PM	I've allowed my players to use leadership in every game I've ran, and from experience I can tell you that the cohort will indeed fall behind eventually. It takes a while, but he does. He does get more EXP, for being 2 levels less than his leader (on average), but the fact that he only gets a half share does not balance with the extra EXP. Eventually, he will drop a level. Thats why I always let my players have their cohorts do "solo" missions when they fall behind, so they don't have to replace the cohort. It also dosen't help that the cohort is usually the first party member to die..... But for anyone intrested, so clerafacations for leadership were posted for 3.0, and the system was unchanged in 3.5, so the same rules would still apply. They can be found on the D&D mainpage in the arcives I do belive. And your leadership score does matter after you aquire your cohort, because it limits his max level, and he can NEVER exceed this limit and remain your cohort. It would be possible for him/her/it to exceed the max level, and then leave your service, but not to remain a cohort.
Caterane 09-06-04, 05:33 PM	Prismatic Wall A perfectly legitimate tactic (and brilliant as well). Ways to defeat it: High SR, good saves, teleport, dimension door, staying still, project image, trickery. Obviously, mounted builds are likely to have the most trouble with this. I think as time goes on, more people will come up with counters. I say it stays. A readied Prismatic wall has only one effective counter: don't move. As soon as you move, the ready action goes off and the wall appears, you cannot change your action and move through it. No dimension door or teleport will protect you from it because you can't change your action. High saves? The Harvester made EVERY save and still got 100 damage so saves are apparently no counter. The only other way is spell resistance but given the fact that only clerics have a mentionable spell resistance and still have a 50% chance to be affected I say this is a feeble counter. The Prismatic wall is a defensive spell but the 'Kelek application' is an offensive use and surely not intended by the designers.
Jindl 09-06-04, 05:51 PM	A readied Prismatic wall has only one effective counter: don't move. As soon as you move, the ready action goes off and the wall appears, you cannot change your action and move through it. No dimension door or teleport will protect you from it because you can't change your action. High saves? The Harvester made EVERY save and still got 100 damage so saves are apparently no counter. The only other way is spell resistance but given the fact that only clerics have a mentionable spell resistance and still have a 50% chance to be affected I say this is a feeble counter. The Prismatic wall is a defensive spell but the 'Kelek application' is an offensive use and surely not intended by the designers. Let's see. Rhoar is facing Kelek. Kelek readies a prismatic wall if Rhoar moves. Rhoar dimension doors to base Kelek. Kelek's readied action is not triggered (Rhoar didn't move physically) or if it was, the wall was wasted, because Rhoar did not move into the wall. And if the readied wall did somehow appear exactly where Rhoar had intended to dimension door, then Rhoar can just change the target location of his spell to exit on the other side of the wall. It works even better with Teleport, because then the teleporter could use a quickened spell (or contingent spell) against Kelek, immediately after the teleport. A monk could probably walk right though the wall taking no damage (his saves, SR, immunity to poison, and evasion would probably negate everything). The Harvester could have cast protection from electricity, protection from acid, resist fire, delay poison, and bypassed the first 4 colors with no damage even on failed saves. The remaining 3 colors have Fort/Will negates, which with the Harvester's good saves he probably takes no effect. All he has to do is stand still while he casts these 4 spells (and he could easily quicken some of them to do it in 2 rounds, since they are all 2nd or 3rd level spells). Bead of Karma + Spell Resistance (Clr5 spell) could easily get Harv2's SR = 31. The scroll was CL 15, which means it only affects Harv2 on a 16 or better. That's a 25% chance per color. Your single SR spell negates 75% of the wall by itself. Quit crying about it, and start thinking of counters. -Jindl
MotherBast 09-06-04, 05:57 PM	just to satasfy myself I searced the D&D mainpage archives for the Leadership rules, but didn't find them. I wish I could find a copy of that somewhere. Its been almost 3 years, so I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting about Leadership. Oh, Mag, I'd love to play, but I'm afraid I just wont have time. I'm not even going to have an active gladatior for a while, sorry. I forgot I was even on the wait list to get into that game or I would have sent you notafication, my bad dude. Jindl, any chance the Candy/Cori fight will be finished today?
Jindl 09-06-04, 06:01 PM	Oh, Mag, I'd love to play, but I'm afraid I just wont have time. I'm not even going to have an active gladatior for a while, sorry. I forgot I was even on the wait list to get into that game or I would have sent you notafication, my bad dude. Jindl, any chance the Candy/Cori fight will be finished today? @MB - Yeah, it should be finished tonight. @Mag - I sent you a PM, saying that if MB wasn't able to play, that I would love to post a PC for the Banewarrens. -Jindl
Caterane 09-06-04, 06:12 PM	Just to make that clear: I am not saying prismawall should be banned. I just want to have those with no minimum forward speed (perfect/good maneuverability and all on the ground) not being forced to walk through it on a ready action. Alright Jindl, I quit whinning. I'm still not convinced that this is a proper application of the wall - a defensive spell - but we should at least keep an eye on it.
Magagumo 09-06-04, 06:51 PM	@Jindl Since MB passes, and others non-involved in games have equally passed, so welcome aboard. Feel free to dicuss char ideas on board and PM with your thoughts.
Battousai2005 09-06-04, 09:03 PM	My character that is active this week is Rain. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=190985&page=154&pp=1) This is my only character and I will be modding no fights. Thank you.
Caterane 09-06-04, 10:01 PM	My character that is active this week is Rain. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=190985&page=154&pp=1) This is my only character and I will be modding no fights. Thank you. Write a PM to the pitlord account
Pittbull 09-07-04, 08:41 AM	@SnarkHunter: Wait, hey! Since weeks I'm trying to get in the same league with Angosh where Donkey is. This week it was very close, but what happened? - Donkey won again, unbelievable! O.K. - Not this week, but perhaps next one Angosh will challange your giant. @All: Where can find the "last edit"- note on the charactersheet in the gladiator-thread? Am I blind?
cellardweller 09-07-04, 09:42 AM	@All: Where can find the "last edit"- note on the charactersheet in the gladiator-thread? Am I blind? Last edit doesn't show when you use the "showpost.php" page. Linking by thread works, but it is a considerable amount of work to convert them over. linking by thread looks like this and can be done by <thread=190985&pp=1&page=XXX>link</thread> Where XXX is the number at the top of your post (#number)
Pittbull 09-07-04, 10:57 AM	@Cellardweller: Thanks, I found it! @Mag: Angosh will accept Brunos challange. But I guess, he won't be the only one who challanges all-mighty Angosh! But You've been the first. Question: Does the casterlevel-bonus from a bead of karma apply on caster-level-checks made for the use of higher level scrolls?
Jindl 09-07-04, 11:02 AM	Question: Does the casterlevel-bonus from a bead of karma apply on caster-level-checks made for the use of higher level scrolls? Yes. The caster level check to use a higher level scroll uses the current caster level of the character, including any temporary adjustments. -Jindl
Pittbull 09-07-04, 11:04 AM	Cool! :love:
Myrridin 09-07-04, 11:37 AM	Zedarak vs Johan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4328183) is posted. I hate figuring out the reach for huge and gargantuan creatures. Anyways, I'm sure there are problems, let me know.
Zerone 09-07-04, 04:07 PM	How many ranks are taken in the following skill? +6 Knowledge Arcana = (4/2 Brb, 2Brd) (+2 INT) I read it as 6 ranks: 4 Brb and 2 Bard. CC skill ranks still count as full ranks towards the max ranks of 3+level, correct? They do not count as half a full rank, do they? Any help is appreciated! :D Zerone
Jindl 09-07-04, 04:16 PM	How many ranks are taken in the following skill? +6 Knowledge Arcana = (4/2 Brb, 2Brd) (+2 INT) I read it as 6 ranks: 4 Brb and 2 Bard. CC skill ranks still count as full ranks towards the max ranks of 3+level, correct? They do not count as half a full rank, do they? Any help is appreciated! :D Zerone In your example, there are 4 ranks. For cross-class skills, 1 skill point = 0.5 ranks. The limit for a cross-class skill is 0.5x (3+lvl) ranks. However, if the PC has that skill as a class skill in any class, then the class skill limit applies instead of the cross-class limit. Hope this helps :D -Jindl
Zerone 09-07-04, 04:20 PM	Yes, it does, as I was thinking that skill points were ranks...? :confused: Whoops! thanks... :D
Zerone 09-07-04, 05:50 PM	I'm off my rocker today, I can't find anything I can't remember!!! If a character is riding a mount and the mount moves 60', can the character take 2 move equivalent actions? Thanks for any help... :D Zerone
Snicker-Snack 09-07-04, 09:03 PM	Hello, people. I'm rather new in this forum, but some days ago i stumbled upon a link to the Core Coliseum in the C.O. Boards, and i would like to participate. But before anything else, I'd like to clarify some doubts. These are probably quite stupid questions, but bear with me. 1-If i got this right, all i have to do is post a character on the "Gladiators & FAQ" thread, write "ECL x, ready for [date]" in the headline, send a PM to the Pitlord account, wait for the pairings, and I'm good to go, right? No need for a special permission, no "go away, n00b!" or anything else, correct? 2-When you say "Core", you mean: "Everything on the SRD, including Divine Feats and Stuff like Persistent"? 3-If anything is added to the SRD, is it immediately considered available or nothing is considered as available except the GM's state it is available? 4-Regarding Wild Shape, is a druid assumed to have familiarity with all the animals in the MM? does he need to defeat the animal in combat? or is he entitled a knowledge [nature] check (perhaps with the same system you use with "Handle animal" checks)? 5-Still with Wild Shape, is there any politics on Wild Shaping into Advanced Animals? Allowed? Not Allowed? 6-Can I sell my items? On the usual "half what you paid" basis? Thank you for your precious time :).
Jindl 09-07-04, 09:17 PM	Hello, people. I'm rather new in this forum, but some days ago i stumbled upon a link to the Core Coliseum in the C.O. Boards, and i would like to participate. But before anything else, I'd like to clarify some doubts. These are probably quite stupid questions, but bear with me. 1-If i got this right, all i have to do is post a character on the "Gladiators & FAQ" thread, write "ECL x, ready for [date]" in the headline, send a PM to the Pitlord account, wait for the pairings, and I'm good to go, right? No need for a special permission, no "go away, n00b!" or anything else, correct? 2-When you say "Core", you mean: "Everything on the SRD, including Divine Feats and Stuff like Persistent"? 3-If anything is added to the SRD, is it immediately considered available or nothing is considered as available except the GM's state it is available? 4-Regarding Wild Shape, is a druid assumed to have familiarity with all the animals in the MM? does he need to defeat the animal in combat? or is he entitled a knowledge [nature] check (perhaps with the same system you use with "Handle animal" checks)? 5-Still with Wild Shape, is there any politics on Wild Shaping into Advanced Animals? Allowed? Not Allowed? 6-Can I sell my items? On the usual "half what you paid" basis? Thank you for your precious time :). Welcome. I'll try to provide some answers :) 1. Yep, that'll do it. 2. Core = 3 Core books (PHB,DMG,MM) and the Psionics section of the SRD. There is still a lot of 3.0 material in the divine section of the SRD, so it has not been added yet. 3. We (the GM's) will consider adding more things, if they become a part of the SRD, and do not overly unbalance a specific class. The second requirement may cause additional delay on the Divine section, since adding it would likely be unfair to arcane casters and non-casters. 4. We grant automatic familiarity with all potential shapes for alter self, polymorph, wild shape, metamorphosis, and similar abilities. 5. Under the Core rules, you can only assume a "normal" specimen of the creature you polymorph into (which of course transfers to Wild Shape). Therefore you cannot Wild Shape (or polymorph) into an advanced or a templated creature. 6. Items that have been owned for at least one fight can be sold at half market value. There is a full refund policy on items that were purchased since your last fight, which extends until your next fight. Please note, pairings are on Wed. There is an editing deadline for characters to be made Ready for the pairings. The deadline is Wed, 9 PM GMT. Welcome to the CoCo! -Jindl
cellardweller 09-07-04, 09:19 PM	Hello, people. Hello! 1-If i got this right, all i have to do is post a character on the "Gladiators & FAQ" thread, write "ECL x, ready for [date]" in the headline, send a PM to the Pitlord account, wait for the pairings, and I'm good to go, right? No need for a special permission, no "go away, n00b!" or anything else, correct? New players are always welcome, and procedures are 100% correct. 2-When you say "Core", you mean: "Everything on the SRD, including Divine Feats and Stuff like Persistent"? The divine sections of the SRD are not yet available for use in the CoCo, but may be at a future date. Everything else in the SRD is fair game. 3-If anything is added to the SRD, is it immediately considered available or nothing is considered as available except the GM's state it is available? It will be reviewed by the GM's/Council before it is available. At the moment, the sections of the SRD pertaining to the PHB, DMG, MM and XPHB are available. 4-Regarding Wild Shape, is a druid assumed to have familiarity with all the animals in the MM? does he need to defeat the animal in combat? or is he entitled a knowledge [nature] check (perhaps with the same system you use with "Handle animal" checks)? Druids can wildshape into anything with the animal type with no knowledge necissary. 5-Still with Wild Shape, is there any politics on Wild Shaping into Advanced Animals? Allowed? Not Allowed? No advanced creatures are available for any purpose except for gladiators or corhorts obtained through leadership/planar ally. 6-Can I sell my items? On the usual "half what you paid" basis? yes, at 1/2 value.
Caterane 09-07-04, 09:28 PM	@SnickerSnack: If you haven't used the Quickstart Guide by now you might find it helpful. You will find the link in the first post of the Gladiators & FAQ thread. Everything else can be asked here. If you have problems, just ask and we will guide you through the creation process. Btw, if you're quick (finished the character before WED 9 PM GMT) you will get paired this week. Else you have to wait until next wednesday.
Snicker-Snack 09-07-04, 09:56 PM	All right, thanks Jindl, Cellardweller and Caterane. I'll probably wait until the next Wednesday, meanwhile i'll take a look (aka: take a lurk) around, checking the fights and all that. About the advanced wild shape question, it's just that i've seen people who believed that the "average" clause on polymorph applies only to abilities. (as in: an average 11 HD tiger, as opposed to: an amazingly strong 11 HD tiger) That's not the way i think it works, but i had to ask :). Other than that, i just have to hope i survive with a physically weak druid until 6th level :D
Druid Roxors 09-07-04, 11:23 PM	All right, thanks Jindl, Cellardweller and Caterane. I'll probably wait until the next Wednesday, meanwhile i'll take a look (aka: take a lurk) around, checking the fights and all that. About the advanced wild shape question, it's just that i've seen people who believed that the "average" clause on polymorph applies only to abilities. (as in: an average 11 HD tiger, as opposed to: an amazingly strong 11 HD tiger) That's not the way i think it works, but i had to ask :). Other than that, i just have to hope i survive with a physically weak druid until 6th level :DLol! Ask Corinthus! he never uses Wildshape! :D Check his character sheets and the linked fights of low level.
Pittbull 09-08-04, 06:03 AM	For all, who think tripping others is a nice hobby!(Angosh smiles!) Just take a look at the D&D FAQs. It says that flying creatures can be tripped, if they use limps to fly. How sweet it is, isn't it? :D
Ashenai 09-08-04, 07:50 AM	My Internet access is going to be really sporadic for a few days; sorry about that. This is just my quick input on a couple of issues. I'll elaborate when I have more time. Prismatic Wall (readied actions): I still think readied actions should be modify-able. As in, you still have to take the same base action (run, cast Fireball, drop prone, whatever), but you can re-make any decisions pertaining to the action (targets, direction, etc). The Core Rules do not comment on this either way, and I think it would be a very logical interpretation. It makes the Prismatic Wall offensive tactic more difficult, which is good, but that's not its only benefit. Ex Nihilo vs. Granny: In a PM session with Jindl, I agreed that Ex Nihilo should have almost certainly lost that fight; the reason he won was that Invisibility wasn't handled correctly. I agreed to a rerun... but after a quick browsing through the boards, I don't see Jindl asking for one. Jindl, what's up? Since there's no time for a rerun now, I'd even agree to forfeit the match retro-actively, but I'm not even sure that's allowed. I'd like a response on this ASAP, please, because I have to get Ex Nihilo ready for tonight, and I need to know his level :) Leadership: So is the consensus that a cohort's level is always limited by the gladiator's Leadership score, and in the CoCo, it's always at its maximum possible level? I would agree with this interpretation;I think it's the one that makes the most sense.
Beldin 09-08-04, 08:14 AM	Ex Nihilo vs. Granny: if you won that fight because of an error and the pitlord did not fix it, than be happy and keep the victory. I think thats the way it was handled in the past. I'm sure Jindl will win his next fight...
Ashenai 09-08-04, 09:00 AM	Since my Internet time is over for today, I guess that's what I'm going to have to do.
Jindl 09-08-04, 12:16 PM	Ex Nihilo vs. Granny: In a PM session with Jindl, I agreed that Ex Nihilo should have almost certainly lost that fight; the reason he won was that Invisibility wasn't handled correctly. I agreed to a rerun... but after a quick browsing through the boards, I don't see Jindl asking for one. Jindl, what's up? Since there's no time for a rerun now, I'd even agree to forfeit the match retro-actively, but I'm not even sure that's allowed. I'd like a response on this ASAP, please, because I have to get Ex Nihilo ready for tonight, and I need to know his level :) I ultimately decided to retire Granny (and create another psion). So I didn't see any point in pursueing the matter further. Enjoy your victory ;) -Jindl
Myrridin 09-08-04, 12:41 PM	I know that the Spike vs Rhoar fight isn't done being posted yet, but are we going to stay on target for pairing tonight?
Caterane 09-08-04, 12:46 PM	Yes, definately. Ready your characters; deadline is 3 hours away.
Jindl 09-08-04, 12:48 PM	I know that the Spike vs Rhoar fight isn't done being posted yet, but are we going to stay on target for pairing tonight? I guess we are. @Druid - Don't sweat being late on the fight. I'm still trying to finish Cori vs Candy :( -Jindl
Pitlords 09-08-04, 05:29 PM	Alright guys, the roster has been updated and pairings will be rolled any second now. There are however not many characters ready. I will also make a roster cleaning later; there are some characters frozen for weeks now. I accidently deleted the pairings for these gladiators: Ernie the Traveler, Aramil Dunskar Viciocelis Tharkan, Druid Roxors Selvos Rad'koln, roll8dn Arlie Korinthion, Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon who were marked as wait. Are these pairings done? Who was the pitlord? Is Yuri ready? He has been challenged but there's no ready for in the headline. I will pair him for now; if Druid wants it to be undone, no problem Cat
Druid Roxors 09-08-04, 05:39 PM	I couldnt find that challenge for Yuri you speak of. Where was it posted? Anyways, He is not ready yet. Ill try to update it real quick, but I fear I might get careless. So Im right to think that everyone thinks the Dust of Sneezing and Choking is stopped by poison immunity. I will run the fight that way then.
Pitlords 09-08-04, 06:29 PM	PAIRINGS DONE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=2700233#post2700233)! You know the procedure: Tactics due saturday, and that's when pitlords may begin running fights without tactics. Late penalties on tuesday. Corinthus vs Candy has been reassigned to SnarkHunter Happy slaughtering! The Catmeister
Beldin 09-08-04, 06:32 PM	Retired -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Johan Talyana - Lord of the Planes tell me that is a joke...
Kaigan 09-08-04, 06:32 PM	@Cat:, or whoever did postings I did not set Aromal ready. He was set for august 11th so I don't know why he was paired. Also he is not the new character. I made another one. It's okay, if you want to replace Aromal with the new one, that would be good. She is on the last page of the gladiator forum. I can't link it now, cuz I have homework. Sorry, I just started university today, so I'm kinda tired. If you make the switch, I'll send tactics tomorrow.
Sindorin 09-08-04, 06:34 PM	erm, Cat, i sent a pm to the pitlords account saying that I had changed Torn to Ara... I guess I should have made it more clear that she was ready for this week's pairings. The reason I didn't edit the tag to say she was ready for 8 Sept 2004 was because I didn't want the late edit penalty. I notice Zerone's PC has rolled out for that level (ecl 2)... we could have a go, all we need is a willing pitlord. Anyone?
Zerone 09-08-04, 06:36 PM	@ Cat and Pitlords, Why did Cat get soo many fights to moderate and I was given none? :confused: •Zerone
Zerone 09-08-04, 06:37 PM	I'll take Cat's ECL 2 and Cat can have ours, Sindorin...
Sindorin 09-08-04, 06:38 PM	I'll take Cat's ECL 2 and Cat can have ours, Sindorin... Sounds great. I just hope it's legal. :D
Beldin 09-08-04, 06:40 PM	I can take that one hmm, Zerone was faster
Sindorin 09-08-04, 06:44 PM	Yeah, Beldin should get it because he doesn't have any fights this week. Thanks, man.
Pitlords 09-08-04, 06:45 PM	I did not set Aromal ready. He was set for august 11th so I don't know why he was paired. Also he is not the new character. I made another one. It's okay, if you want to replace Aromal with the new one, that would be good. Ok, will be corrected. Please note that a PM to the pitlord account makes sure that something like that never happens. Some reserve a place on the glad thread and take weeks until their character is finished. We can't check the whole thread. Edit: Do you mean this one: <Eiletha Surion, Ready for 25/8> erm, Cat, i sent a pm to the pitlords account saying that I had changed Torn to Ara... I guess I should have made it more clear that she was ready for this week's pairings. The reason I didn't edit the tag to say she was ready for 8 Sept 2004 was because I didn't want the late edit penalty and I changed the character as you have requested. However, if you don't write 'Ready for 8th Sep' I don't know that you want to play him. I will correct this. Why did Cat get soo many fights to moderate, and I was given none? Because no one wants to moderate anymore. But I didn't see your NICE <max> tag next to your name. I'll assign you a fight.
Jindl 09-08-04, 06:47 PM	@Cat - No need to assign Snarkhunter to run Cori vs Candy. I've already taken the fight through Rnd 8 ... I'll be finishing it very soon. -Jindl
Sindorin 09-08-04, 06:47 PM	Thanks Cat, you da man.
Zerone 09-08-04, 07:03 PM	Thanks Cat. :D Zerone
Magagumo 09-08-04, 07:58 PM	*sigh* Bruno weeps to see his dinner party so rudely interrupted by the Celestial's Mystic. Angosh is still invited for next week if the circumstances permit it. :devil:
Myrridin 09-08-04, 09:25 PM	This'll be the last week that I can run a fight, and 3 gladiators. Work cracked down company wide on Internet usage, and I won't be able to get here anymore. Yes, this means that RttToEE will slow down too, but I'll post most nights, hopefully a couple times, and on weekends. Sorry everyone.
Myrridin 09-08-04, 09:27 PM	Ahhhh, Sildaris isn't active, for the level 4 fight.
Magagumo 09-08-04, 09:31 PM	Sorry to hear that Myrr :/. On a different note, Batt has agreed to let Banzanifal face Rain this week- provided the GMs have no problems and can find someone to run the fight?
Kaigan 09-08-04, 09:54 PM	@Cat: I did send a pm to the pitlord account a while back, when I first made her. And I guess you guys overlooked it cuz, it's been 2-3 weeks since I posted her. But no matter, it's all good now. I'll send tactics in tomorrow Thanks for the change.
Caterane 09-09-04, 04:05 AM	A new old character has been added to the roster: Archangel Ixidor, now called by his ancient name Ixenthor, decides that it is time to mobilize the Celestial Forces and seek out new allies. Monsterfight has been assigned to Zerone.
Druid Roxors 09-09-04, 11:21 AM	@Cat - No need to assign Snarkhunter to run Cori vs Candy. I've already taken the fight through Rnd 8 ... I'll be finishing it very soon. -Jindl Jindl: You had a single fight to do during a two week period which you failed to complete, let alone start. You were given an extra week and a penalty and you are still not finished beyond round 7. This other week is one I am not willing to spend waiting for whichever resolution will come. I have tried believing you, not once but many times, and I find it hard to believe that you are still at round 7 (Yes, I checked the online roller). It is not your forgetfulness, I remind you at least once every two days, if you are having a problem in RL you should at least inform us. Nevertheless, it appears, that is not the case. I believe that waiting for a single fight for an entire month is much more than I am willing to wait. I would like to request that the fight be re-assigned to Snarkhunter as intended.
Pittbull 09-09-04, 01:00 PM	Yes, this means that RttToEE will slow down too, but I'll post most nights, hopefully a couple times, and on weekends. Sorry everyone. Hey, don't worry! I think, I speak in the name of all other players, when I say: " We are glad to have You as our DM!" If slows down, it slows down. Then it takes longer, doesn't matter. :)
MotherBast 09-09-04, 04:05 PM	I don't care who finishes the Candy/Cori fight as long as the fight continues from where Jindl left it. I don't want it to take any longer than necessary, and I defanatly don't want to have to redo any tactics. Also, I think I'm winning right now, LOL.
Beldin 09-09-04, 04:43 PM	a question:does a light warhorse know the seek-trick?
Jindl 09-09-04, 05:27 PM	a question:does a light warhorse know the seek-trick? It knows the combat riding purpose only. Check the Handle Animal skill for a summary of what 6 tricks this purpose contains (sorry, I don't remember right now). -Jindl
Beldin 09-09-04, 05:30 PM	thanks Jindl.
SnarkHunter 09-09-04, 06:06 PM	Re: Cori/candy, taking the fight at this point doesn't seem like a great idea. You guys wouldn't be paired anyway. Still I'll take up from where Jindl left off it isn't done by Sunday afternoon.
Sindorin 09-09-04, 06:22 PM	My girlfriend, Nanaleigh, has posted her character, Sonora. I helped a bit with it, but I may have overlooked some things. oh, and... be nice to her. :)
Druid Roxors 09-09-04, 08:25 PM	Wellcome Nanaleigh!
kattattack22 09-09-04, 11:22 PM	My girlfriend, Nanaleigh, has posted her character, Sonora. I helped a bit with it, but I may have overlooked some things. oh, and... be nice to her. :) Do I have to be nice to her? EDIT: I see she is playing another bard. Almost makes me want to make a lv 2 character just to see how good it is.
Magagumo 09-10-04, 12:11 AM	hai! Greetings Nanaleigh, fresh ideas and fresh faces are always welcome here :)
Sindorin 09-10-04, 12:53 AM	Do I have to be nice to her? EDIT: I see she is playing another bard. Almost makes me want to make a lv 2 character just to see how good it is. lol, she always enjoyed teasing you from what I remember, so I suppose anything goes there...
kattattack22 09-10-04, 02:22 AM	lol, she always enjoyed teasing you from what I remember, so I suppose anything goes there... Excellent, my hands won't be tied once she is addicted to this forum.
kedi 09-10-04, 07:04 AM	Welcome Nanaleigh (: I hope you can amke it with your bard. Can't see many high level bards here 8-)
Sindorin 09-10-04, 09:24 AM	Excellent, my hands won't be tied once she is addicted to this forum. what what? :mymy:
kattattack22 09-10-04, 10:02 AM	what what? :mymy: In case I have to defend myself from verbal (or text) abuse.
Sindorin 09-10-04, 10:52 AM	Ah, lol... I doubt she'll heckle you too much... any ideas what to use instead of her scrolls?
kattattack22 09-10-04, 01:05 PM	Ah, lol... I doubt she'll heckle you too much... any ideas what to use instead of her scrolls? You never know with her. Yes, check your PM's. I don't want to reveal possible plans.
Caterane 09-10-04, 11:32 PM	Bloodmaiden Shiaan vs Octavian Cesar is up. I didn't write a story but at least didn't post plain rolls either. Fight Another thing. I've checked Vandameer Black's character sheet and found this: - Weapon Proficiency - Lance (War Domain) - Weapon Focus - Lance (War Domain) Is this valid? Can we choose our favored weapon for the War Domain?
kedi 09-11-04, 02:59 AM	Another thing. I've checked Vandameer Black's character sheet and found this: - Weapon Proficiency - Lance (War Domain) - Weapon Focus - Lance (War Domain) Is this valid? Can we choose our favored weapon for the War Domain?There was a discussion about that before I guess. Aramil chose War domain and had weapon focus bastard sword while he worshipped Tempus and his favored weapon was War Axe. Jindl, if I'm rite, told me that it was ok (not sure if it was Jindl thou).
Magagumo 09-11-04, 09:52 AM	To my knowledge, you may not chose War domain weapons- it only functions when one worships an actual deity (concepts will not grant a favored weapon). So unless one of the Core deities secretly likes lances... no, this won't work. Edit: Yo folks, new PHB errata is out, and Divine Favor and Righteous Might just get a bit of the old axe... Divine Favor gives a +1 luck bonus to attack and damage rolls for every 3 caster levels (minimum +1, maximum +3 Righteous Might: This spell causes you to grow, doubling your height and increasing your weight by 8x. This increase changes your size category to the next largerr one, and you gain a [b]+4 size bonus to Strength and +2 size bonus to Constitution. You gain a +2 enhancement bonus to natural armor. You gain DR 3/good or evil, 6/good or evil at 12th, and 9/good or evil at 15th. Well... that's slightly less pain...^_^;;
SnarkHunter 09-11-04, 11:56 AM	Oh Snap! That makes zee old brutally efficient clerics a might less impressive. Well, win some yah lose some.
Druid Roxors 09-11-04, 12:36 PM	WHOA!! nice change!! Ill read the errata now! @ Snark: Ill resend tactics as soon as I get home.
Caterane 09-11-04, 01:25 PM	They didn't errata animal growth - which was better than RM - along with it by any chance, did they?
barrel_master 09-11-04, 01:27 PM	Is anyone on lvl 11 going to make their char active this week?
cellardweller 09-11-04, 08:43 PM	To my knowledge, you may not chose War domain weapons- it only functions when one worships an actual deity (concepts will not grant a favored weapon). So unless one of the Core deities secretly likes lances... no, this won't work. Core deities? There are no deities in the SRD, nor has any cleric been limited in their deity selection up to this point. Why the change now?
Boldrift-Mattock 09-11-04, 08:45 PM	I have looked everywhere i can think for the rules on the 36 point buy thing and I still can not find the rules on it. SO if someone could explain or direct me to the rules it would be most efective.
cellardweller 09-11-04, 09:06 PM	Score cost 8 0 9 1 10 2 11 3 12 4 13 5 14 6 15 8 16 10 17 13 18 16 The score is determined before racial modifiers are applied.
Caterane 09-12-04, 12:06 AM	My fight is finished. I hereby side with the Elders that the Take 10 rule isn't a good one. Here's why And if you think it is hard to read, then imagine how it was to run. @Boldrift: Welcome (back). You might want to read the Quickstart Guide. You'll find the link in the Gladiators&FAQ thread at the top.
Zerone 09-12-04, 10:45 PM	So, about the War Domain, where does one find the gods that are allowed in the CoCo? I was interested in a cleric, but now I don't know... I could not find any dieties in the SRD, and as we all know there are the Greyhawk dieties in the physical 3.5 PHB... so is that all we are limited to? :confused:
cellardweller 09-12-04, 11:27 PM	Greyhawk deities in the PHB huh? Is the list all Greyhawk deities or a subset? A quick scan through the fights thread shows that there have been 8 clerics (3 still active - Vandameer, Brock & Spike) who have used the war domain and only one of them (inactive) worshiped a Greyhawk deity (Erenythul) . So precedent says that CoCo gladiators are not limited to PHB lists. This means that Cat/Mag are proposing a change to restrict clerics to the PHB list, here's why I think this change is a bad idea. As I see it, limiting players to these is not an option because many (most?) people aren't willing to fork out money to have the SRD in a less convenient format. It is one thing to allow extra options from the book (such as Paladin mounts), it is an entirely different matter to restrict players to a list they cannot read and therefore make decisions based on.
Jindl 09-12-04, 11:44 PM	We ruled to allow the War domain granted power to apply to any martial or simple weapon. Since per the Core rules, clerics are allowed to worship a "philosophy", then clerics are not limited to the PHB deities. If the cleric does worship a PHB deity, then the War domain will apply to that deity's favored weapon. -Jindl
Sindorin 09-12-04, 11:45 PM	I too am only familiar with the greyhawk deities listed in the PHB, however... In the world thread there is one of the posts that tells of past deities of gladiators in the coliseum... if someone who knows a lot of deities could provide information regarding this, they could be posted in a special section for clerics or something. There's also the fact that you can make up your own deity... theoretically making some of the rules irrelevant and many many gods springing up with only one or two worshippers.
kattattack22 09-13-04, 02:28 AM	I too am only familiar with the greyhawk deities listed in the PHB, however... In the world thread there is one of the posts that tells of past deities of gladiators in the coliseum... if someone who knows a lot of deities could provide information regarding this, they could be posted in a special section for clerics or something. There's also the fact that you can make up your own deity... theoretically making some of the rules irrelevant and many many gods springing up with only one or two worshippers. There isn't much consistancy in the paladins and clerics. When I was compiling that list about half (or more) of the paladins and clerics I saw had no deity they worshipped. Even in that list most of the greyhawke deities only have one or two worshippers. I think Magagumo is has most of the characters on it. In the end, what does it matter? We live a world with many religions and they are some with only small followings. Then there is great disillusionment with religion as well. I think this is reflected in the gladiators of gladius. I say let them be cretive with their clerical beliefs. It just adds more to the deities section in the world thread.
Sindorin 09-13-04, 09:27 AM	There isn't much consistancy in the paladins and clerics. When I was compiling that list about half (or more) of the paladins and clerics I saw had no deity they worshipped. Even in that list most of the greyhawke deities only have one or two worshippers. I think Magagumo is has most of the characters on it. In the end, what does it matter? We live a world with many religions and they are some with only small followings. Then there is great disillusionment with religion as well. I think this is reflected in the gladiators of gladius. I say let them be cretive with their clerical beliefs. It just adds more to the deities section in the world thread. Well, i guess it doesn't really matter at all, I was just saying that there isn't anything saying people can't make up a deity who has a war domain and his favorite weapon is a lance.
Zerone 09-13-04, 09:27 AM	Can the Locate Object spell be used to find an item on a character hiding in shadows, thus revealing them? Thanks for any help, Zerone
Caterane 09-13-04, 10:49 AM	@Zerone: Wow!! Thanks for the great story! I expected plain rolls, especially since it's only a monster fight but your story rocked!! Very well done! Ixidor acted perfectly! Locate object: shows you the direction to your enemy. If you surround the cover he is hiding behind you have a clear unobstructed LOS and he cannot hide there unless he has the Hide in plain sight trait. War Domain: I didn't know that. Perhaps I make a new Harvester :D
LLMadCow 09-13-04, 11:18 AM	Hello everyone! I am home, but exhausted. My fight has been run. I will be editing and posting this afternoon. I need to take a nap. If I can edit characters in time I want to have Clio and Big fight in matches this week. Anything occur recently that I need to be aware of? I can Pitlord one of the lower level fights this upcoming week. I'll be back in a bit... :)
Sindorin 09-13-04, 11:39 AM	@ Jindl Care for a Tair Malek vs. Bubo rematch? :D
Jindl 09-13-04, 11:42 AM	War Domain: I didn't know that. Perhaps I make a new Harvester :D They do say, "Third time is the charm"... or is it "Three strikes and you're out"? :D
Caterane 09-13-04, 11:42 AM	Hello everyone! I am home, but exhausted. My fight has been run. I will be editing and posting this afternoon. I need to take a nap. If I can edit characters in time I want to have Clio and Big fight in matches this week. Anything occur recently that I need to be aware of? I can Pitlord one of the lower level fights this upcoming week. I'll be back in a bit... :) Make sure you send a PM to the Pitlords Account ...IF there are any changes. You can also just put "ready for 15th Sep" in the headline. Btw, still no tactics from Myrridin. I'll wait till evening today.
Jindl 09-13-04, 11:46 AM	@ Jindl Care for a Tair Malek vs. Bubo rematch? :D <shudder> Honestly, I don't know how I won the first time. I'm actually considering retiring some characters, and Bubo is at the top of the list. So my answer for now is "sorry, but no". -Jindl
Sindorin 09-13-04, 11:52 AM	Yeah, that's what I was worried about - Tair's going to get stuck at eighth level and I at least wanted to try to get him out of that hole before bubo retired. for that last fight i misunderstood a bunch of tactics, and bubo had that big whip, it was a fun fight though. I understand your reasoning. :D
Jindl 09-13-04, 01:48 PM	Question: Does a half-giant monk's Powerful Build ability mean that it deals damage as a large monk?
Magagumo 09-13-04, 02:07 PM	Question: Does a half-giant monk's Powerful Build ability mean that it deals damage as a large monk? To my knowledge, Jindl, it does not, as the special quality only allows them to wield larger weapons and be considered larger in oppossed checks. Nonetheless, it does not seem to actually give the increased size... I would love if it did, as CrestingSun would certainly benefit from 1d8 attacks :) Edit: Zerone, I also wish to compliment you on giving a touch of flavor to your fights- I'm afraid age, laziness, and building piles of school work prevent me from doing the same :(. Carry on good sir! :) Myrr hasn't sent tactiocs tomy knowledge, so I'm running the fights in around 2 hrs, regardless.
Zerone 09-13-04, 03:10 PM	Can the Locate Object spell be used to find an item on a character hiding in shadows, thus revealing them? Thanks for any help, Ok, so now that it works with Line of Sight vs. Hide, how does it work vs. Invisibility? Again, thanks for any help, and the complements... Zerone
Zerone 09-13-04, 04:18 PM	Are there any humanoids that can fly (not monstrous humanoids)? Thanks for any help, :D Zerone
Jindl 09-13-04, 04:24 PM	Are there any humanoids that can fly (not monstrous humanoids)? Thanks for any help, :D Zerone Not without a template (hrm, were-eagles ...) Sorry, but alter self can't grant flight unless you are an outsider (see your lord, the Shape Shifting Master of Darkness, Aku !!) or an aberration (hrmm, an Elan wizard...) -Jindl
barrel_master 09-13-04, 05:17 PM	Question: Does a half-giant monk's Powerful Build ability mean that it deals damage as a large monk? I don't think so either... all it says is that the char can weild larger weapons without penalty... I don't think it says that his hands themselves are larger or are considered large. Too bad though, would have been interesting.
MotherBast 09-13-04, 06:02 PM	Jindl, any chance of Candy vs. Cori being finished this week? It is the third week, after all... I think maybe its about time we get the conclusion.
Druid Roxors 09-13-04, 06:37 PM	Jindl, any chance of Candy vs. Cori being finished this week? It is the third week, after all... I think maybe its about time we get the conclusion. According to Snark, he had taken over. Im not sure though.
MysticMonk2005 09-13-04, 08:39 PM	when i try to load the second to last fight page, it freezes when it tries to load ixidor3.jpg can any one tell me if Drahk vs Shadovar is up?
Kaigan 09-13-04, 09:16 PM	@pitlords: I have leveled both Eiletha, and Enilias. Note that Enilias has been bumped. He lost three in a row. I have both of them ready, so I would only like one fight please. Just one, and please give it to me. Thanks Kaigan
Caterane 09-13-04, 10:08 PM	Brennan vs Ex Nihilo is up. A new chapter from why the Take 10 rule sucks. I've sent a PM to both Tellish and Jindl a while ago but since Tellish is very busy with the wedding and Jindl doesn't answer my PMs anyway I am going to state here that we won't use the Take 10 rule next week. If it is reimplemented, then only through a long discussion and the votes from the Elders which unanimously (and wisely) decided against it. Cat @Kaigan: sent a PM to the Pitlords account @all: I've taken over Tellish's fight. Beginning my run now.
Druid Roxors 09-13-04, 10:13 PM	Yey Cat! What a hypocrite! First you say that take 10 fights are difficult to mod and read and then you give us this masterpiece of a fight! Easy to read and no doubt on the outcome! I believe the take 10 rule is right on the way to make all fights easier to mod and follow!! [/sarcasm] :D
Druid Roxors 09-13-04, 11:00 PM	Attention: The preliminary results of the Elder Council (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299338) have been compiled. The conclusion has not been definitive, especially with Ethendril still missing on voting. These are the results entering in effect immediately unless GMs Veto: Edit: Ethendril seems to have problems lately to participate on the CoCo. We will ignore his vote in this run. I Removal of Central obstacles: 5 Nay Unanimous, Central obstacle to remain II Capping/increasing cost of undead allies: 4 For Cap No cost, 1 No cost/cap All Undead allies will be capped and no additional cost will be required. III Reduction of credit cost for monster fights: 5 Aye Unanimous, All monster fights cost 1 credit. IV Random arenas (and which ones): 3 Abstain, 2 Nay This idea still has to be further developed in order to make a consensus V Banning the gate spell in all of its forms 5 Aye Unanimous, This spell is Toast. VI Review/update/edit/reverse any ruling from the old senate thread 5 Aye Unanimous, the following rule seeks change: The take 10 rule: 5 Aye Unanimous, no longer taking 10 in combat. VII Mo's Proposal 2 Undecided, 1 Abstains, 2 Against This proposal needs more working on before a decision could be made. VIII Addition of the Divine section in the SRD: 4 Aye, 1 Nay The divine section of the SRD will be included within the rules of the CoCo IX Snark's Moderator Statistics: 3 Aye, 1 Undecided Snark's Idea seems to be going official as of now. We trust you can handle the first run Snark :)
Battousai2005 09-13-04, 11:24 PM	I'm going to leave the COCO. Maybe for a long time. I just don't seem to have the time and my pairings just don't seem to be happening. I rarely, if ever, have time to mod fights anymore. I have more interest in the RP boards, anyway. See ya guys.
Magagumo 09-14-04, 12:30 AM	:( Take care of yourself, Batt, you're always welcome here at the CoCo. Edit: Myrridin has been mysteriously AWOL, so I suppose Crest v. Pyre is going to be delayed this week (since ToK can't send tactics to a new Mod if he's at a wedding). *Sighs, shrugs* Such is life.
SnarkHunter 09-14-04, 01:15 AM	Hmm I'm going to start collecting notes on pitlords of this week. If fights aren't up by 9am EST Tuesday they will be counted as late. If not up by 9am EST Wednesday they will be counted as not completed. If players would post whether they were generally satisfied or not satisfied with tactics and rules moderation of the fights, I would also appreciate that.
Kaigan 09-14-04, 01:23 AM	@Caterane: did you mean that I shoudl send a pm, or that you already did?
Caterane 09-14-04, 04:20 AM	What happens if none of the two combatants can hear or see each other? Right, the pitlords gets mad! Angosh vs Arkin is up @Kaigan: I just use every opportunity to remind you that you must all send changes and requests to the Pitlord account. There are so many things to take care of so that it is no surprise that things might get lost in the Tavern. Still, I'm seeing people posting it here in the Tavern. Well, now you know; one player at a time, I'll get it in your heads :) PS: I didn't send it to the account for you
Pittbull 09-14-04, 05:28 AM	Sorry, Cat! But I think, the smoking bottle is pretty nice against casters. I will have to improve this tactic to avoid getting the pitlord mad. Oh yeah and happy anniversary!(I'm not sure, if I'm one day to late)! Muchos gracias! For taking "Angoshs hunt for an Arkin" over from Tellish.
Ashenai 09-14-04, 08:15 AM	Donkey vs. Harvy is up. It's (slightly) late, but it's up. :) HEEEE... haw? The fight was surprisingly simple to run (thank heavens; I still have very little Internet access.) If either one of you thinks I screwed up anything, I'll be glad to correct it, but frankly, I think you'd need actual divine intervention to have any hope of changing the outcome.
Ethendril 09-14-04, 11:32 AM	The preliminary results of the Elder Council have been compiled. The conclusion has not been definitive, especially with Ethendril still missing on voting. These are the results entering in effect immediately unless GMs Veto: Edit: Ethendril seems to have problems lately to participate on the CoCo. We will ignore his vote in this run. Sorry about my absence. I've indeed found it hard to participate lately. Some may have noticed that none of my characters have fought since August 11. I'd been participating heavily in the Temple of Elemental Evil thread, but with its death, I haven't been around much. I think it is probably best that I resign as an Elder at this time. Hopefully I'll be back to fight sometime in the future, but for now it's probably best that I don't hold up any Council issues. I'll see you guys around. :) Fight on.
Pittbull 09-14-04, 11:42 AM	I hope to see back again. Did Myrridin close the RttToEE-Campain? I thought, we have a little break.
Beldin 09-14-04, 12:11 PM	@Ethendril: I really hope you will not be gone long. I always thought of you as the "good soul" of the COCO. sorry to see you going/stepping back
Kaigan 09-14-04, 12:21 PM	@Pitlords, sent a pm to you!!!
Pitlords 09-14-04, 12:24 PM	@Ethendril: You will of course stay an Elder. If you didn't vote, we will just skip your voice, but Elder it is :) @Angosh: Keep the bottle; just improve the tactic. And thanks for the anniversary. One year Cat; you're all tough guys :D @Battousai: Forgive me if I try but I really hope you change your mind! As we all said, it's not that much to run one character, and you will learn a lot here. Sorry but I just hate to see a longstanding member go. May your sword strike true! Level 4 Shadovar (Kedi) vs Drahk Longfellow (MysticMonk2005): Myrridin Level 5 Cresting Sun (Magagumo) vs Pyre the Red (Tellish_of_Ket): Myrridin If you send tactics to me, I'll run them today so that you can be paired tomorow. Cat @Kaigan: I know :)
Pittbull 09-14-04, 12:36 PM	Whow! Respect! Cat, two fights more, that's realy a bunch of work! We're glad to have you here, without you, this Arena won't work! :thumbsup:
Zerone 09-14-04, 02:32 PM	I've got a dumb problem - sometimes my brain numbs and I can't make it work. :eek: How much does a Permanent +5 Magic Fang cost? As always, thanks for any help, :D Zerone Edit: Can you take the feat Ability Focus (Stunning Fist) if you are a monk?
Magagumo 09-14-04, 03:06 PM	@Ethendril I too was unaware RoTTEE had died... good luck with your endeavors, good sir, I have gained much respect for you over the past year, and would hate to see you join the ranks of the perpetually missing. Godspeed @Zeroen Yup, Ability Focus works just perfectly with Stunning Fist.
kedi 09-14-04, 03:20 PM	Whow! Respect! Cat, two fights more, that's realy a bunch of work! We're glad to have you here, without you, this Arena won't work! :thumbsup:Ditto. ((: EDIT: Tactics are sent hours ago. (:
Zerone 09-14-04, 03:45 PM	Lets say I have +4 Full Plate and I want to upgrade it to Demon Armor. How does one go about doing that? Zerone
Magagumo 09-14-04, 04:03 PM	Under our rules, I'm not sure you can, Zerone, as the specific armors have a cost calulation that defies normal crafting logic (at least so I found for Mithral Plate of Speed).
Nanaleigh 09-14-04, 05:39 PM	I have a question! if Sonora, my bard, wants to cast a spell from a scroll of a spell that isn't on her spell list, will casting Read Magic help her to be able to more easily? I don't know if I worded that correctly, but oh well. Thanks!!! :)
Jindl 09-14-04, 05:54 PM	I have a question! if Sonora, my bard, wants to cast a spell from a scroll of a spell that isn't on her spell list, will casting Read Magic help her to be able to more easily? I don't know if I worded that correctly, but oh well. Thanks!!! :) To cast a scroll that's not on your spell list, you need to use the Use Magic Device skill. Before you can do that, you have to have read the scroll at some point in the past (by either making a Spellcraft check or casting Read Magic). Since you know how to cast Read Magic, then we'll assume you read the scroll a couple of days before the fight. Casting the scroll will require a Use Magic Device skill check, with a DC of 20+caster level of the scroll. Keep in mind that if you have 5 ranks in Spellcraft, you gain a +2 bonus on Use Magic Device rolls to cast a scroll. For example: Sonora bought a scroll: scorching ray (CL3) and wanted to cast it. Several days before the fight, she casts read magic on the scroll, so that she can read the words when the time finally comes to cast it. During the fight, her opponent comes within 30 feet (the range of the spell) and so she decides to try and cast the scroll. Since scorching ray is not on the bard's spell list, she'll have to succeed at a Use Magic Device check. The scroll is caster level (CL) 3, so she'll need to get a 20+3 = 23 on her Use Magic Device check. She has a +8 for the skill and she gets a +2 bonus to the roll because she has 5 ranks of Spellcraft and she's attempting to cast a scroll. That gives her a modified +10 on the die roll, which means she'll need to roll 13 or better on a d20 in order to successfully cast the scroll. BTW: I see that Sonora bought a scroll: see invisibility for 375 gp. Since this is a 2nd level spell, the scroll should have only cost 150 gp. Hope this helps!! -Jindl
Jindl 09-14-04, 06:09 PM	Jindl, any chance of Candy vs. Cori being finished this week? It is the third week, after all... I think maybe its about time we get the conclusion. According to Snark, he had taken over. Im not sure though. I also thought Snark had taken over (I even sent him a PM about it before the weekend).
Sindorin 09-14-04, 06:14 PM	To cast a scroll that's not on your spell list, you need to use the Use Magic Device skill. Before you can do that, you have to have read the scroll at some point in the past (by either making a Spellcraft check or casting Read Magic). Since you know how to cast Read Magic, then we'll assume you read the scroll a couple of days before the fight. Casting the scroll will require a Use Magic Device skill check, with a DC of 20+caster level of the scroll. Keep in mind that if you have 5 ranks in Spellcraft, you gain a +2 bonus on Use Magic Device rolls to cast a scroll. For example: Sonora bought a scroll: scorching ray (CL3) and wanted to cast it. Several days before the fight, she casts read magic on the scroll, so that she can read the words when the time finally comes to cast it. During the fight, her opponent comes within 30 feet (the range of the spell) and so she decides to try and cast the scroll. Since scorching ray is not on the bard's spell list, she'll have to succeed at a Use Magic Device check. The scroll is caster level (CL) 3, so she'll need to get a 20+3 = 23 on her Use Magic Device check. She has a +8 for the skill and she gets a +2 bonus to the roll because she has 5 ranks of Spellcraft and she's attempting to cast a scroll. That gives her a modified +10 on the die roll, which means she'll need to roll 13 or better on a d20 in order to successfully cast the scroll. BTW: I see that Sonora bought a scroll: see invisibility for 375 gp. Since this is a 2nd level spell, the scroll should have only cost 150 gp. Hope this helps!! -Jindl Thanks Jindl, she left and had to get to class so I can't get to her character to fix it... I hope she can get any changes she wants in time! I'll let her know she got a good reply to her question.
Magagumo 09-14-04, 06:15 PM	Snark is finishing it up tonight, as I believe various RL difficulties have been delaying him.
Druid Roxors 09-14-04, 07:06 PM	Snark is finishing it up tonight, as I believe various RL difficulties have been delaying him.Tell snark not to worry. Just as long as he gets the fight before parings. I am extremely grateful for the fact that he took such a task and so close to the deadline.
Caterane 09-14-04, 09:32 PM	I have received tactics from Kedi and Mag but not from Tellish or Mystic Monk. Can someone call them on the phone? LOL Another option would be that Myrridin forwards me their tactics. I can still run the fights as soon as I get the tactics, and I suggest to all 4 involved to make some notes now on how to level them so that this will be done quickly; you might have no more than a few hours until pairings then.
Magagumo 09-14-04, 09:43 PM	Hehe, well judging from ToK's own thoughts on our fight, it's a good thing I worked out a progression for CrestingSun months ago ;) (Pride goeth... :smirk: )
MysticMonk2005 09-14-04, 10:12 PM	Tacits PM'd to Pitlord And Sarah is retiring. What is the current lvl needed for the graveyard?
Beldin 09-15-04, 06:55 AM	Hey! :D :D I have registred more than a year ago and managed to make: Total Posts: 5 (0.01 posts per day)!!!!!! :eek: Pittbull has made 8!!! in much shorter time... :mymy:
Pittbull 09-15-04, 07:05 AM	Yeah, my post-counter does not work either! I have no idea how to fix it. But I'm pretty sure, that I've posted more than 8 times in last 7 months! ;)
kedi 09-15-04, 08:19 AM	Hey! :D :D I have registred more than a year ago and managed to make: Total Posts: 5 (0.01 posts per day)!!!!!! :eek: Pittbull has made 8!!! in much shorter time... :mymy: Kedi's Total Posts: 1,640 PWNED :P
SnarkHunter 09-15-04, 10:37 AM	Cor vs. Candy finished and sent to Jindl for posting. I've PMed the participants with the results, sorry it took so long. I'll also try to get the 1st round of pitlord stats up soon.
Jindl 09-15-04, 11:25 AM	And it's been posted for all to read. -Jindl
Pittbull 09-15-04, 11:35 AM	If an ally flees (with teleport, for example) from the arena during a fight, is he allowed to come back within 10 rounds or is he banned from this fight?
Jindl 09-15-04, 11:36 AM	If an ally flees (with teleport, for example) from the arena during a fight, is he allowed to come back within 10 rounds or is he banned from this fight? The 10 round rule applies to allies as well as PC's. So he has 10 rounds to return or he is banned from the fight. -Jindl
Beldin 09-15-04, 11:38 AM	I believed we couln't teleport out of the arena?
Ethendril 09-15-04, 11:42 AM	Yeah, my post-counter does not work either! I have no idea how to fix it. But I'm pretty sure, that I've posted more than 8 times in last 7 months! ;) But you haven't posted more than 8 times outside of the Core Coliseum. You see, we're considered a "spam" type of board here, and any posts here don't count toward your overall total. I emailed customer service about it. If you post in the Optimization Board, for example, that's considered a good post, so it counts. Here, it must not be considered substantive. *shrugs*
Jindl 09-15-04, 11:45 AM	I believed we couln't teleport out of the arena? Check the Notes posted under the arena map: "Important: There is a 10 round limit to any effects which allow a character to leave the arena (such as rope trick, etherealness, meld into stone, etc.) Go beyond the 10 rounds and you will lose the fight automatically. This is not a cumulative 10 rounds; it resets when the gladiator re-enters the arena." -Jindl
Pittbull 09-15-04, 11:46 AM	So, we all are only spams here? :weep: :weep: :weep: @Jindl: Thanks! This will open a new field of nasty tactics!
Pittbull 09-15-04, 11:48 AM	Check the Notes posted under the arena map: "Important: There is a 10 round limit to any effects which allow a character to leave the arena (such as rope trick, etherealness, meld into stone, etc.) Go beyond the 10 rounds and you will lose the fight automatically. This is not a cumulative 10 rounds; it resets when the gladiator re-enters the arena." -Jindl But you don't lose, if your ally is outside for 10 rounds or more!?
Caterane 09-15-04, 01:22 PM	Check the Notes posted under the arena map: "Important: There is a 10 round limit to any effects which allow a character to leave the arena (such as rope trick, etherealness, meld into stone, etc.) Go beyond the 10 rounds and you will lose the fight automatically. This is not a cumulative 10 rounds; it resets when the gladiator re-enters the arena." -Jindl COOOOL! Wait until you see my succubus with teleport at will: 10 rounds away, one round pop up, 10 rounds away! Jindl, I thought we ruled that it's cumulative. I promise you there are many ways to abuse it.
SnarkHunter 09-15-04, 01:25 PM	I suspect Jindl's the only one who thinks it resets after 10 rounds, but this is surely something one could bring to the Council.
Magagumo 09-15-04, 01:33 PM	Re: posts Well that explains why my posts always registered as so very low... Eberron & old CoCo were the only things counting :-P
Zerone 09-15-04, 02:19 PM	I've got a dumb problem - sometimes my brain numbs and I can't make it work... 1. How much does a Permanent +5 Magic Fang cost? 2. Can you take the feat Ability Focus (Stunning Fist) if you are a monk? 3. Lets say I have +4 Full Plate and I want to upgrade it to Demon Armor. Is it possible, and if so how does one go about doing that? Thanks for any help, :D *•. Zerone
LLMadCow 09-15-04, 02:37 PM	I've got a dumb problem - sometimes my brain numbs and I can't make it work... Victim of Feeblemind? 1. How much does a Permanent +5 Magic Fang cost? Greater Magic Fang +5 = Caster Level 20 x 30gp = 600gp Permanency = Caster Level 9 x 50gp = 450gp Permanency XP = 500xp x 5gp = 2500gp Minimum Total = 3,550 However.... (I think) Greater Magic Fang +5 = Caster Level 20 x 30gp = 600gp Permanency = Caster Level 20 x 50gp = 1000gp Permanency XP = 6000xp x 5gp = 30000gp Minimum Total = 31,600gp ...has a much higher DC to dispell in combat. 2. Can you take the feat Ability Focus (Stunning Fist) if you are a monk? I believe the council voted Yes a while back. 3. Lets say I have +4 Full Plate and I want to upgrade it to Demon Armor. Is it possible, and if so how does one go about doing that? (Demon Armor 52,260gp) - (+4 Full Plate 17,650gp) = Upgrade Cost of 34,610gp. If you are a spellcaster and have the ability to do the upgrades, it costs 24,227gp.
Jindl 09-15-04, 03:02 PM	COOOOL! Wait until you see my succubus with teleport at will: 10 rounds away, one round pop up, 10 rounds away! Jindl, I thought we ruled that it's cumulative. I promise you there are many ways to abuse it. We have not ruled anything about it being cumulative. As yet, no one has ever even attempted to exploit this rule. There are many ways to counter such a tactic, without having to make a rule against it. Dimensional anchor springs to mind, as does a simple readied attack. Keep in mind that your Succubis spent her standard action teleporting into the arena. Then she needs a round to complete whatever attack she plans. Then another round to teleport out. That gave her opponent 3 rounds (with a readied action) to attack her, compared to the one round she had. It's not as great as you make it sound, which is probably why we haven't seen it done. -Jindl
Caterane 09-15-04, 03:16 PM	Oh, we have seen it being exploited when your Druid spend half the fight underground; always burrowing down as soon as he got stung. And the teleport, 3 rounds to attack me?? I teleport out on my turn, then return after 10 rounds. There's no way one can attack me in this time. Ready action? So you know where I pop up? Even then, I still have a move left. And how many can cast dim.anchor? No no, it doesn't reset after 10 rounds. That was you anyway who wrote it in the FAQ (or was it Mo?) If you still object then we will put it into the Council. All the time I thought it's 10 rounds altogether until you said otherwise. Apparently, I wasn't the only one.
Caterane 09-15-04, 03:18 PM	Guys, it's one hour till pairings and there are still so many not set ready. Please ready your characters so that they make history, or become history! I will set the Roster ready now.
Druid Roxors 09-15-04, 03:37 PM	I think it would be prudent to inform those you challenge. Corinthus accepts this challenge from Zed and I believe the sacrifice is in the name of Dre isnt it? Scared of losing your winning streak? :rolleyes: :D Ps. Readying Corinthus now
Jindl 09-15-04, 03:51 PM	Oh, we have seen it being exploited when your Druid spend half the fight underground; always burrowing down as soon as he got stung. And the teleport, 3 rounds to attack me?? I teleport out on my turn, then return after 10 rounds. There's no way one can attack me in this time. Ready action? So you know where I pop up? Even then, I still have a move left. And how many can cast dim.anchor? No no, it doesn't reset after 10 rounds. That was you anyway who wrote it in the FAQ (or was it Mo?) If you still object then we will put it into the Council. All the time I thought it's 10 rounds altogether until you said otherwise. Apparently, I wasn't the only one. Which fight are you saying my druid burrowed away in? Except for the error-ridden Jindl vs Harvester fight (that took over a month and still had errors in it), Jindl has never even used burrow. And in the final version of that fight, he didn't use burrow. Regardless, all burrowing does is give you total cover. There are plenty of other ways to get total cover in the arena as well. As for the Succubus idea, yes, it is easily counterable. Ready an action to shoot/cast a spell/attack when you spot the Succubus. Succubus teleports back in, ready action triggers <attack#1>. Succubus still has a move action, and moves. Next round, you go first because of the readied action, you full attack <attack#2>. Succubus gets to make her attack now <attack#1>. Next round, you get another attack <attack#3> and then the Succubus can teleport away. All in all, you get 3 attacks to the Succubus's one. This is a pretty good counter to the tactic, even if you can't cast dimensional anchor. I don't think it is as good a strategy as you seem to think. Regardless, the original rule was for 10 consecutive rounds, not 10 cumulative rounds. The only reason you think we should change it is the fear that it can be exploited. Show me proof and maybe I'll change my mind. But for now, I don't think it is as exploitable as you seem to. -Jindl
Magagumo 09-15-04, 03:55 PM	Tori & Ban readied, Crest still waiting (I presume we'll get a new Mod w/ Myrr absent?). Bruno fervently re-writes his mem'd spells as his target "mysteriously" ascends to 15th level :P. I'll get you soon enough Angosh *shakes fist* In interest of non-repeats, Bruno would like to fight Candessa Rain, though he will accept Arkin as well if the bard passes. Up for a challenge MB?
Caterane 09-15-04, 04:01 PM	I think it would be prudent to inform those you challenge. Corinthus accepts this challenge from Zed and I believe the sacrifice is in the name of Dre isnt it? Scared of losing your winning streak? :rolleyes: :D Ps. Readying Corinthus now Sorry, I ran fights till 3 AM and had to prepare the pairings first. I trusted in your omnipresence to detect the challenge :D Don't underestimate Zedarak. I didn't ready him to lose. You might get a surprise. @Jindl: The point is that half of the CoCo thought it is 10 cumulative rounds and while there may or may not be exploits for the Reset-Version, there are absolutely none if we make it cumulative. You are obviously agaisnt it while I am for it, so let the Council decide. Stop Editing! It's evening tea time in the UK :D
Druid Roxors 09-15-04, 04:24 PM	I hope you can forgive me Caterane. I had to place "Accepts Challenge" on my post and I was 1 minute late :o. I hope you are not going to call it a win-by-default :D Oh, and BTW, I can abuse the 10 round rule if you wish. :rolleyes:
Pitlords 09-15-04, 05:10 PM	PAIRINGS DONE! Ok, for our newcomers and those who still don't know it :D Pitlords may begin running fights without tactics on saturday (but write a PM to the player first) All fights are due on monday Late penalties (1 neg.credit +2 week pitlord suspension) apply on tuesday Changes in the Creditaccounts: +2 credits: Caterane +1 credits: Snarky, Mag, LLMadCow, Sindorin, Zerone, Kaigan, Kazzaroth, Kedi -1 credits: Druid Roxors Sidenote: It's almost impossible to alter the assignment of the pitlords as I assigned them. There were only 4 high level pitlords available (Cat, Ashenai, Mag, and Snark) and they had to avoid their own characters. Alright, time to cleave some heads Cat
Druid Roxors 09-15-04, 05:21 PM	If any of you four are not really able to take on high level fights, I offer my services even if I don't get a credit for it (penalty). I got plenty of free time this weekend.
Pitlords 09-15-04, 05:28 PM	Ok, Druid, I'll assign you a fight. The following changes will be made: 14: Bruno Wilikens (Magagumo) vs Jindl of the High Forest (Jindl): DruidRoxors (instead Snark) 7: Ildechai Hazeweaver (Ashenai) vs Demon Lord Themmez (Druid Roxors): SnarkHunter (instead Cat) Snark requested only one high level fight so this is the best solution. Credit changes: Cat-1, Druid+1 Edit: These changes have been reversed. Druid has a 1 week penalty left
Jindl 09-15-04, 06:03 PM	@Cat - Karse's opponent is a 3rd level PC (check his win/loss record and his character sheet). Karse is a new ECL 2 character. That's gonna be a tough matchup... Also, Kedi requested No Psionics in his fights, and Karse is a Psionic Duergar PsyWar1. -Jindl
Pitlords 09-15-04, 08:04 PM	Ok, Karse is out for # of PCs and Eiletha fights Selvros. Also, note that my post above has been edited!
MysticMonk2005 09-15-04, 08:07 PM	if Moksha Jehannum (Ashenai) would like a fight this week, and he doesn't mind me leveling my char. I can set Drahk to active.
cellardweller 09-16-04, 12:27 AM	Am I right in assuming that official CoCo interpretation has changed so that it is now a free action to put a hand back on a two handed weapon (that is held in the other hand)?
barrel_master 09-16-04, 01:05 AM	I'll second the 10 round cumulative rule. Although I've restrained myself from using that tactict where I would just pop in then pop out via teleport I can tell you it looks awful tempting after 6 or so losses.
Druid Roxors 09-16-04, 04:05 AM	Edit: These changes have been reversed. Druid has a 1 week penalty left Yeah thats why I said: I offer my services even if I don't get a credit for it (penalty). :(
MotherBast 09-16-04, 07:14 AM	Sorry Mag, only just saw your post. I'm afraid that Cori was Candy's last fight. Candessa Rain, Brackin Bonesnapper, and Dra'kel Mourning are all offically retired. (Note, I haven't leveled Brackin to 14 yet, Bump, but he should be listed as such in the G/Y. I'll level him when I get around to it.) I'm not done in the CoCo though. I will still be around for elder dutys, and I'm thinking of making an ECL creature with all the credits I have built up. By the way, Did I get a credit for the monster fight I ran when Candessa's fight was in its second week? I didn't check, but since that fight was a "delayed" fight, I should have gotten a credit that week. Anyway, reguardless of wether or not I do the ECL thing, I will be making a pure RANGER soon enough. Look for him in stores near you by October.
Jindl 09-16-04, 10:54 AM	I'll second the 10 round cumulative rule. Although I've restrained myself from using that tactict where I would just pop in then pop out via teleport I can tell you it looks awful tempting after 6 or so losses. Try it! Let's see if it works. In a campaign, players will face such tactics often (phase spiders, blink dogs, outsiders with teleport at will). Just recently in my RL campaign, a phase spider attacked, bit two PC's, then waited 10 rounds on the ethereal plane for its poison to take full effect before returning and trying to bite them again. I don't think its such a stretch to allow these tactics here. After all, teleport has a miss chance and uses up a high level spell slot, so there are very few creatures beyond the ECL types that can do this often. And the ECL creatures are already paying a heavy cost for having this ability. And I still say its not as effective as you think, unless you can quicken teleport (not likely without a MAJOR investment in a metamagic rod, or using up a 9th level spell slot). Your opponent will get 3 chances to attack you before you can teleport away, while you only get 1 attack at them. That's not very good odds. All in all, there are much better ways to use teleport than just hiding/buffing for 10 rounds. -Jindl
Caterane 09-16-04, 03:00 PM	Jindl, you seem to be the only one to support the rule that the delay is reset once you pop up. As I said, 10 cumulative rounds IS completely proof to exploits while yours isn't. But I don't want to argue here so let's just put it in the Council. Candessa Rain, Brackin Bonesnapper, and Dra'kel Mourning are all offically retired. (Note, I haven't leveled Brackin to 14 yet, Bump, but he should be listed as such in the G/Y. I'll level him when I get around to it.) That's sad to hear bud. Three high level characters retired! I'll put them on the Inactive list; perhaps you change your mind one day. @Druid: Sorry but we can't do that. Penalty is penalty :(
Ashenai 09-16-04, 03:12 PM	if Moksha Jehannum (Ashenai) would like a fight this week, and he doesn't mind me leveling my char. I can set Drahk to active.Sounds good to me! Re: 10 rounds being cumulative: I am neutral for now. If someone can show me a significant abuse in practice, I will of course be against it.
Pitlords 09-16-04, 03:54 PM	Level 5 Moksha Jehannum (Ashenai) vs Drahk Longfellow (MysticMonk2005): El_Jaguaro has been added to the Roster. Credit changes: Ashenai -1, El_Jaguaro +1
Druid Roxors 09-16-04, 03:54 PM	Re: 10 rounds being cumulative: I am neutral for now. If someone can show me a significant abuse in practice, I will of course be against it. Alright, Ill abuse it. I hope you don't mind Cat. Its for the good of the CoCo :P
Jindl 09-16-04, 05:21 PM	Alright, Ill abuse it. I hope you don't mind Cat. Its for the good of the CoCo :P You do realize that burrowing is not subject to this rule (ie. you aren't leaving the arena). The arena extends 10 ft below the ground and 10 feet through the outer walls/ceiling. That's how incorporeals like Anna could move around partially/totally within the walls/ceiling/ground. And druids like Dra'kel could burrow within the ground. The rule applies to leaving the arena completely, which is something you cannot do by burrowing. However, burrowing is subject to the minor penalties associated with a 10 round delay. You should be aware that there are similar methods of dealing with burrowing. The classic rock to mud + mud to rock combo is one of my favorites. But the readied action technique works well also: Ready an action to attack the burrower. The burrower uses a move action to reach the surface, ready action triggers. Then the burrower gets a standard action. Then the opponent goes first (thanks to the readied action) and takes a full attack. Then the burrower gets a standard action before retreating back underground. So you're opponent gets a standard attack + a full attack compared to your 2x standard attacks. And this assumes that you can burrow far enough to gain total cover with a single move action to escape. All in all, its a decent technique, but you're making sacrifices to gain the ability to burrow (face it, badger form isn't nearly as nice as dienonychus form or dire bear form or dire lion form). I'm not sure the sacrifices are worth it. That's why I think meld into stone is better than burrowing. Anyway, feel free to show us the "power" of burrowing, but keep in mind that it doesn't apply to the "10 round count out rule", although it could fall under the "10 round delay rule" (which doesn't have a cumulative limit either). -Jindl
Caterane 09-16-04, 06:52 PM	Jindl, I am not leaving the Arena with meld into stone either. And Rock to Mud??? Who the hell memorizes this asides from this being a high level spell/ And your ready action trick doesn't work because the burrower can pop out anywhere, easily leaving the central obstacle between them. I have no idea why you so resist the logic in the cumulative delay rule but I tell you that the spirit of the Delay rule is to prevent someone from getting out of the fight for a long time.
Druid Roxors 09-16-04, 06:57 PM	Oh, just as there are counters to that tactic, there are counters to the Ready tactic. What if you simply HIDE after poping up
Jindl 09-16-04, 07:00 PM	Then it simply becomes a hide vs spot issue (and druid's aren't known for their ability to hide). Keep in mind, your opponent may be hidden as well. I consider this to be even, as the druid probably has a good enough spot/listen to find his opponent, but the opponent probably has a good enough spot/listen to find the druid. So they'll probably find each other. -Jindl
Jindl 09-16-04, 07:08 PM	Jindl, I am not leaving the Arena with meld into stone either. And Rock to Mud??? Who the hell memorizes this asides from this being a high level spell/ And your ready action trick doesn't work because the burrower can pop out anywhere, easily leaving the central obstacle between them. I have no idea why you so resist the logic in the cumulative delay rule but I tell you that the spirit of the Delay rule is to prevent someone from getting out of the fight for a long time. How exactly do you think the burrower knows where his opponent is? He can't see / hear him (unlike the person who is melded into stone). But the readied action trick still works, because it will trigger before the burrower gets to act, as soon as LOS is established and the burrower is spotted. It works the same regardless of which side the burrower appears on, unless the burrower has some way of always knowing the location of his opponent (even when he's underground) and of targeting his opponent without LOE (because the central obstacle is between them). My point, simply put, is that you cannot take advantage of this rule without either giving up something significant (a bunch of 6th level spell slots, a lot of ECL, etc). You don't gain much if anything through this tactics (as I've already shown that your opponent gets a 2 to 1 or 3 to one advantage in actions against you), and the only real benefit to such a shoot and run tactics might be on the side of endurance. Nobody has ever proven that this is broken/abusable. You are just basing your opinion on unfounded fears and unproven theories. To paraphase Ashenai, why don't you remain nuetral until you have some proof? -Jindl
Caterane 09-16-04, 07:19 PM	I'm not the only one who thinks so. But we'll see. I just hope it's not one of my characters who is at the short end of the stick when someone prooves that it can be abused. Ok, my first fight is finished. Pyre the Red vs Cresting Sun
Sindorin 09-16-04, 07:49 PM	Quick pitlording question whilst I audit the fighters in my fight: I've noticed several crafted weapons. After looking up how to craft things, it appears to me that crafting a weapon requires a skill check. Wouldn't this indicate a roll out of the arena? Both characters participating in the fight i am running for the weekend have several of their items self-crafted, and one doesn't even have ranks in any craft skill. Is this done with the take 10 rule? I am not sure how this is handled here.
Jindl 09-16-04, 08:52 PM	Quick pitlording question whilst I audit the fighters in my fight: I've noticed several crafted weapons. After looking up how to craft things, it appears to me that crafting a weapon requires a skill check. Wouldn't this indicate a roll out of the arena? Both characters participating in the fight i am running for the weekend have several of their items self-crafted, and one doesn't even have ranks in any craft skill. Is this done with the take 10 rule? I am not sure how this is handled here. Yes, you are assumed to get a 10 on the die roll. The cost is 50% to craft nonmagical goods, unlike the normal 30% for crafting in a RL campaign, where you roll the dice and risk failure. Also, craft skills can be used untrained. This may allow intelligent PC's to reach the DC's without having any ranks. For example, the DC to make normal studded leather armor is 13. So anyone with a +3 bonus to their Craft (Armor) skill can make it. You could get that +3 by having an Int 16, or having an Int 12 and buying masterwork tools, etc. Crafting magic items builds upon this (basically you craft/buy the nonmagical portion then enchant it). Got it? -Jindl
Sindorin 09-16-04, 09:07 PM	Got it, thanks, that's what I figured. Yay, now I get to take all the prospective red ink off of the character sheets!
Zerone 09-18-04, 06:31 PM	Does Armor Spikes count as Armor or a Weapon when making it MW? It's about a 150 gp difference... and I cannot tell from the book, since it is listed under both areas...
Druid Roxors 09-18-04, 06:48 PM	Armor spikes are bought as an extra for the armor. It is not part of the armor, per say, it is certainly a weapon and costs 300gp to gain masterwork status.
Zerone 09-18-04, 07:08 PM	Jindl did the research on Possible 'Handle Animals' (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=2278970&origin=), but if you kook here (http://www.prodigyweb.net.mx/rodomg/monstersG.html#griffon) at Griffon, under 'Training a Griffon', it states that you need a Handle Animal score of 25. :mymy: Yet it's not on the list... So... what does this mean? :whatsthis *•. Zerone
Jindl 09-19-04, 12:33 AM	Jindl did the research on Possible 'Handle Animals' (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=2278970&origin=), but if you kook here (http://www.prodigyweb.net.mx/rodomg/monstersG.html#griffon) at Griffon, under 'Training a Griffon', it states that you need a Handle Animal score of 25. :mymy: Yet it's not on the list... So... what does this mean? :whatsthis *•. Zerone Giant Eagles, Giant Owls, and Pegasi aren't on the list either. I only listed the creatures that had a 1 or 2 Int to make that list. The few intelligent creatures that can be trained (griffons + the others above) I didn't put on the list, though they could be added. -Jindl
KerlanRayne 09-19-04, 12:41 AM	Announcement Regarding New Links I have updated this information and am now reposting it because I don't think everyone saw it. I just tried some of the fight links on character sheets, and many are dead ends. I know it's frustrating to try and research an opponent and having to search for their last fight. There are now three options to link fights on your character sheet. First, at the top right hand corner of every post is a link that when clicked, will only show that post. You can just use the {URL} tag and copy/paste the whole link there. Another option is to use the Post Number like before but with the new {POST} tags. The third is with the 3 digit number and the {THREAD} tag. Examples: - Link to Cyric Tor using the {URL} Tag. Cyric Tor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3463844&postcount=149) I'm not big on this one, it's way too long. Cyric Tor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3463844&postcount=149)- Link to Grym Mordib using the {POST} Tag. Grym Mordib I like this one, short and sweet, very easly to link fights. Grym Mordib- Link to Cyric Tor using the {THREAD} Tag. Cyric Tor This one is better for linking to characters than fights becuse it's the only one of the three that shows the "Last Edited" time tag. Maybe the roster should use this method? Cyric Tor If you want to link to a specific post while still showing the whole thread, you can use the {THREAD} Tag. Grym Mordib Grym Mordib To find the three digit POSTCOUNT number (four for VERY long threads like the Tavern thread), or the six digit POST number, click on the link in the top right corner and they will both be in the new URL. The THREAD number will be at the end of the URL when viewing the thread. If you have any questions, let me know. KerlanRayne P.S. I know many people skim through the Tavern thread and miss many posts, so I may repost this in the future.
Caterane 09-19-04, 01:40 AM	...and some don't even have their fights linked at all, right Jindl? Thanks for the links, Kerlan! I will correct the Roster links tomorow. Another fight is finished: Toreilison Wevlun vs Peter Popoff
kedi 09-19-04, 04:07 AM	Done my fight. <<>> Spiolers: Join the Army.
Caterane 09-19-04, 05:50 PM	Now if only someone *coughcatcough* would include one of my characters in a story... Done :) Demon Lord Themmez vs Ildechai Hazeweaver Nothing huge though. Enjoy!
Pittbull 09-20-04, 12:25 PM	@Jindl: Found an image for Rhoar!Just look. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/fb_gallery/83566.jpg)
Caterane 09-20-04, 12:59 PM	Apropos images... I have bad news guys: It appears that Saddam Hussein has contacts to Starfleet: http://hm.indymedia.org/usermedia/image/12/Sybok.JPG
Zerone 09-20-04, 06:12 PM	1. When a special mount gains the bonus Hit Die for Paladin’s Level, will it eventually become a Huge creature if it is in their description under Advancement? 2. Can you increase a creatures Hit Die in another fashion (through training, etc.) or does it advance when you advance, like a Cohort, or not at all? And if it's like a Cohort, do you then have to have the Leadership feat? Basically, is there a way without Leadership? Since they have an Advancement stat, it should be able to be used... 3. How do you figure a creatures Handle Animal DC?
Kaigan 09-20-04, 06:49 PM	@all: i need an answer quickly if possible. If someone is invis. and someone else is readying an action to do something on that person, what happens when the invis person attacks? Does the invis. person attacks first or the readying person?
Jindl 09-20-04, 07:02 PM	@all: i need an answer quickly if possible. If someone is invis. and someone else is readying an action to do something on that person, what happens when the invis person attacks? Does the invis. person attacks first or the readying person? The readied action would trigger when the readying person can see his opponent, which is after the opponent attacks. So the invisible person goes first. -Jindl
Jindl 09-20-04, 07:05 PM	1. When a special mount gains the bonus Hit Die for Paladin’s Level, will it eventually become a Huge creature if it is in their description under Advancement? 2. Can you increase a creatures Hit Die in another fashion (through training, etc.) or does it advance when you advance, like a Cohort, or not at all? And if it's like a Cohort, do you then have to have the Leadership feat? Basically, is there a way without Leadership? Since they have an Advancement stat, it should be able to be used... 3. How do you figure a creatures Handle Animal DC? 1. No. This was covered in the FAQ, and pertains to animal companions, special mounts, and familiars. 2. Cohorts advance to always be at the maximum ECL allowed by the leader's Leadership score. Class feature allies advance as listed in the class feature. Handled Animals and Animated dead allies do not advance. 3. For animals, its DC 15 + hitdice. For non-animals with an Int of 1 or 2, its DC 20 + hit dice. Creatures with an Int of "-" or >2 cannot be trained via handle animal (with Pegasus, Griffons, and Hippogriffs being exceptions to this rule, as noted in their individual MM entries.) -Jindl
Kaigan 09-20-04, 07:37 PM	posted Cyric vs. Mr Big please direct comments to comments thread. Please take it easy with the comments though, it's my first psionics fight. I'll try and fix any mistakes, but i will be very busy these next days. thanks
Caterane 09-20-04, 09:23 PM	Enlias vs Shiaan is up. Quick and Bloody
Jindl 09-21-04, 10:38 AM	@Jindl: Found an image for Rhoar!Just look. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/fb_gallery/83566.jpg) That is perfect! Thanks!! <runs off to edit the link into Rhoar's character sheet> -Jindl
Magagumo 09-21-04, 03:01 PM	Hmm.. I support the delay wholeheartedly :) Cellar- Tori boldly accepts the Dragon-Maiden's challenge.. perhaps this shall serve as an entrance exam for the vile Shiaan?... I will edit correspondngly later. Pitlords- I'll send a PM soon, but I'm prob going to do only 1 fight max for awhile- Homework is really picking up (Graduate Exams, EEnglish papers, my Senior Project, Philosophy essays, etc.) I would rather lose credits then fail you see. Re: banewarrens this will still be progressing-- I recommend continuing to RP/name purchases (Druid's been MIA there which conerns me...) and I will likely begin progressing you guys into the Warrnes come Wednesday or Thursday (maybe.. Comp Proposal due Friday after all XP)
Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon 09-21-04, 08:03 PM	I'm back after being gone for two weeks in Mexico, mreow. Hmm...I don't see my charecter on the list of active combatents anymore. It hasn't been three weeks so I don't see why he should be pulled from the active list, oh well. I never did find out if he won that second battle of his...*goes to look it up*
Pitlords 09-21-04, 08:46 PM	@Tekas: I just changed the policy from 2 to 3 weeks today. Your character will of course be readded to the roster. What is your win/loss record? Please link the fights to the bottom of your sheet. @all: Druid Roxor and I have done some work on the handle animal section. It has been moved and is now much more user-friendly. The beasts will eventually be linked with the SRD but not today. I want to thank Druid Roxors for helping me; it was a big amount of work and without him this would've taken forever! Here's the link to the new section: Handle Animals (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4037564) Cat
SnarkHunter 09-21-04, 08:59 PM	I would as well like but one fight a week (or two if one of them is like 2nd or 3rd level), for the very same reasons Mag listed.
Druid Roxors 09-21-04, 09:18 PM	I'm back after being gone for two weeks in Mexico, mreow. Hmm...I don't see my charecter on the list of active combatents anymore. It hasn't been three weeks so I don't see why he should be pulled from the active list, oh well. I never did find out if he won that second battle of his...*goes to look it up* How did it go? Great food or Diharrea? ;)
Zerone 09-22-04, 02:45 AM	@all: Druid Roxor and I have done some work on the handle animal section. It has been moved and is now much more user-friendly. The beasts will eventually be linked with the SRD but not today. I want to thank Druid Roxors for helping me; it was a big amount of work and without him this would've taken forever! Here's the link to the new section: Handle Animals (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4037564) Cat Nice work, I like the layout better. The old one was functional, but the new one is all that and a box of chocolates... I've some questions though: 1. Why are certain creatures left off, like Giant 'Birds', Griffon, etc.? 2. There is a way to train Intelligent (Int > 2) creatures with Handle Animal and Diplomacy, is that going to be implemented in the CoCo? 3. So I have a +5 HA and I 'capture' a +5 HA creature (sounds like Pokemon :weep: ). What can it do? I need a +10 HA to train it...? Thanks to all for help! :D *•. Zerone
Druid Roxors 09-22-04, 10:04 AM	1. Why are certain creatures left off, like Giant 'Birds', Griffon, etc.?I am not sure. I fetched the information Cat requested but I didnt build the list. Ill check on that though. 2. There is a way to train Intelligent (Int > 2) creatures with Handle Animal and Diplomacy, is that going to be implemented in the CoCo? There is no way to do that and I believe there will not be a change in that. The only way to get int > 2 creatures is Leadership. If it were allowed in some other way, the feat would be useless. 3. So I have a +5 HA and I 'capture' a +5 HA creature (sounds like Pokemon). What can it do? I need a +10 HA to train it...?Training difficulties are based off the "Handle Animal" skill on the srd. Ill tell Cat to add a link to it on the list and a short explanation. Handle Animal (http://www.prodigyweb.net.mx/rodomg/skillsAll.html#handle-animal)
MysticMonk2005 09-22-04, 10:39 AM	Do things like pegusi and horses get revived? or do you need to buy a new one?
Zerone 09-22-04, 10:41 AM	Thanks for the reply, but as always... I've more questions... :D There is no way to do that and I believe there will not be a change in that. The only way to get int > 2 creatures is Leadership. If it were allowed in some other way, the feat would be useless. In the DMG, p. 205, Characters - Mounts - Intelligent Mounts, it states: Mounts with Int > 4 are more like NPCs. As a result, the character must use Diplomacy checks to negotiate what the mount will and will not do (Influencing NPC Attitudes, PHB p. 72) Once they reach an agreement, they must still train together. Training difficulties are based off the "Handle Animal" skill on the srd. Ill tell Cat to add a link to it on the list and a short explanation. Handle Animal (http://www.prodigyweb.net.mx/rodomg/skillsAll.html#handle-animal) I think I know what you mean, but a link will be helpful for others in the future... Again, thanks for your help! :D *•. Zerone Edit: Why do I have to revive my 'broken' animal/cohort/familiar but not replace arrows and items that were hit by effects like sunder, shatter, etc. What happens if a potion was Shattered? do you get it back? What happens to Mort. Disjunctioned items? Technically, by the CoCo rules as I read them, I would get them back after the fight, as they were not 'used', and you cannot cause me monetary damage. And since you cannot cause me monetary damage, killing my familiar/cohort/whatever is monetary damage, cause I have to pay to bring them back even though I didn't 'use' them (no charges, etc.)... Thoughts...
kedi 09-22-04, 10:47 AM	Do things like pegusi and horses get revived? or do you need to buy a new one? I believe you again have to have leadership to get a pegasus or a similar intelligent horse.
Zerone 09-22-04, 10:57 AM	Nope. Some giant birds (owl, eagle, etc.) and pegusus, griffon, hippogriff have a DC of 25 in the SRD to train them as mounts, even though they have an Int > 2.
Druid Roxors 09-22-04, 11:27 AM	Thanks for the reply, but as always... I've more questions... :D Keep them coming! Glad to help In the DMG, p. 205, Characters - Mounts - Intelligent Mounts, it states: Mounts with Int > 4 are more like NPCs. As a result, the character must use Diplomacy checks to negotiate what the mount will and will not do (Influencing NPC Attitudes, PHB p. 72) Once they reach an agreement, they must still train together. This is much like hireing a mercenary. You go to a tavern and hire a rogue to help you with a trapped chest as you can go to the forest and ask a unicorn for help. You negotiate, giving the creature a payment upon agreement. Since this is DM discression material, it is not allowed in the CoCo. You cannot get this kind of allies exept with the leadership feat. The "must train togeather" part is just as if you and your party-mate train certain battle tactics. Just go and practice, there is no "check" involved. I think I know what you mean, but a link will be helpful for others in the future...Yes, perhaps an explanation that is a little clearer would be in order. Again, thanks for your help! :D NP! Edit: Why do I have to revive my 'broken' animal/cohort/familiar but not replace arrows and items that were hit by effects like sunder, shatter, etc. What happens if a potion was Shattered? do you get it back? What happens to Mort. Disjunctioned items? Technically, by the CoCo rules as I read them, I would get them back after the fight, as they were not 'used', and you cannot cause me monetary damage. And since you cannot cause me monetary damage, killing my familiar/cohort/whatever is monetary damage, cause I have to pay to bring them back even though I didn't 'use' them (no charges, etc.)... Thoughts...Ive proposed this in the past, before the creation of the council. I am in favor of free revival for handled animals and bought allies when killed (except those from Items which specifically say the item is destroyed if killed). Perhaps it is time to revive the proposal.
Druid Roxors 09-22-04, 11:29 AM	Nope. Some giant birds (owl, eagle, etc.) and pegusus, griffon, hippogriff have a DC of 25 in the SRD to train them as mounts, even though they have an Int > 2. Although I dont have my books with me, I am sure this is a mistake. An inteligent creature requires no Handle Animal Training. Ill check it out once I get home.
kedi 09-22-04, 12:47 PM	Nope. Some giant birds (owl, eagle, etc.) and pegusus, griffon, hippogriff have a DC of 25 in the SRD to train them as mounts, even though they have an Int > 2. PWNED. Although intelligent, a pegasus requires training before it can bear a rider in combat. To be trained, a pegasus must have a friendly attitude toward the trainer (this can be achieved through a successful Diplomacy check). What'sthe DC? Training a friendly pegasus requires six weeks of work No time in arena and a DC 25 Handle Animal check. Riding a pegasus requires an exotic saddle. A pegasus can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check. THOUGH, you can spend directly 4k gp, and if you have any-non-evil alignment you can have a pegasus. Though Leadership feat can help you for free (4k gp vs feat) with special cohorts listed in DMG.
Druid Roxors 09-22-04, 02:11 PM	I see... So you do need a handle animal check for pegasi. Thats wierd in my opinion. Anyways, you cannot obtain a pegasus through Handle Animal itself although, you can train it. There is no way to gain the ally through HA alone.
Caterane 09-22-04, 03:06 PM	Do things like pegusi and horses get revived? or do you need to buy a new one? Unfortunately, you have to buy a new one. IMO it is nonsense since we get everything replaced and the allies are jsut too expensive if they are not revived. @Snark & ElJaguaro: Fights? :( @Beldin: Please ready Rhaegar!! I WANNA FIGHT!!! @Pittbull: One thing I forgot to say... SIEG! *Beckerfaust* :D
Sindorin 09-22-04, 03:07 PM	the DC for the diplomacy check is 10... with the rules here in the COCO everyone automatically passes since we get a ten.
Tekas_Tinkered_Dragon 09-22-04, 03:31 PM	How did it go? Great food or Diharrea? ;) Heh, diharrea actualy. Mexican seafood is great, yet I think they use a lot of there unfiltered water in it. *shudders* It was horrid taking showers there when I knew the water was so dirty.
Pitlords 09-22-04, 03:33 PM	Please ready your characters! Deadline is only 30 minutes away!
Druid Roxors 09-22-04, 03:34 PM	In fact, as Tellish is going to be out for quite a while. And my post on the Coucil is before his. I will place the new vote proposals there. Please note that they are not to be voted on YET. We need more discussion and then we can set a vote deadline.
Druid Roxors 09-22-04, 03:35 PM	Heh, diharrea actualy. Mexican seafood is great, yet I think they use a lot of there unfiltered water in it. *shudders* It was horrid taking showers there when I knew the water was so dirty. Whoa! where did you go? Where I live we get all services, including potable water. :)
Druid Roxors 09-22-04, 03:47 PM	Elders: Please consult the list here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4274508#post4274508) and start discussing on the issues. If you have any other issues to add, let me know.
Magagumo 09-22-04, 03:53 PM	@Cellar As mentiuoend before, Tori accepts the Bloodmaiden's challenge, but you have some errors to be addressed: 1. Bear's Endurance is not on the Blackguard spell list. 2. Shiaan's cohort does not get two stat increases (the 4 Magical Beast HD do not allow a stat increase, so its Strength is 23).
Pitlords 09-22-04, 04:04 PM	Pairings done. Here's the link: Pairings (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=2700233#post2700233) Tactics due friday Pitlords may begin running fights without tactics on saturday (but send a PM first) Fights due monday Late penalties on tuesday Changes in credits: +2 credits: Caterane +1 credit: Ashenai, Druid Roxors, LLMadCow, Zerone, Kazzaroth, and Kedi Cat
SnarkHunter 09-22-04, 05:18 PM	Woah. I thought pairings were delayed till Thursday. Ah well.
Pitlords 09-22-04, 05:21 PM	Woah. I thought pairings were delayed till Thursday. Ah well. Huh? I didn't hear anything about that. Tellish is not here and surely Jindl wouldn't take the leeway to decide something without me. But ready your characters anyway. It's ok. Edit: Druid just showed me Jindl's Invalid Announcement on the Comments thread. The pairings are rolled now but due to his wrong and misleading post I will remove the late penalties from Snark and Jaguaro, and everyone who isn't paired yet can edit his character and will get paired. Cat
SnarkHunter 09-22-04, 05:33 PM	Keep the late penalties on me actually. I won't have time to finish the fight tonight so I already sent it to Druid. I will Ready Donkey for a good ol Angosh beat down though :D.
roll8dn 09-22-04, 05:40 PM	I am formally removing Selvos from the roster. I will send a PM to the Pitlords account, as well. He just is not what I was looking for when I crafted him, I suppose. I'll have a new character concept up either this week or next (depends on how much free time I have over the next few days).
Pitlords 09-22-04, 05:42 PM	Level 15 Angosh (Pittbull) chllg Donkey (SnarkHunter): Magagumo has been added to the Roster. No credit changes.
Druid Roxors 09-22-04, 06:27 PM	I have a grave concern here that should be of importance to all pitlords and players alike. Please read this and respond on the fights of the week (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=311778) thread. Thank you *Note: Bruno has set his symbols to trigger when a creature comes within 60 ft. This is not one of the allowed triggering conditions of the symbol spell. "As a default, a symbol of death is triggered whenever a creature does one or more of the following, as you select: looks at the rune; reads the rune; touches the rune; passes over the rune; or passes through a portal bearing the rune. Regardless of the trigger method or methods chosen, a creature more than 60 feet from a symbol of death can’t trigger it (even if it meets one or more of the triggering conditions, such as reading the rune). " - from the SRDFrom later on in the same spell “You can also set special triggering limitations of your own. These can be as simple or elaborate as you desire. Special conditions for triggering a symbol of death can be based on a creature’s name, identity, or alignment, but otherwise must be based on observable actions or qualities. Intangibles such as level, class, Hit Dice, and hit points don’t qualify. ” I would certainly rule that a creatures type could be an observable quality that would trigger the symbol.. The triggering creature must be within 60 ft to trigger the rune, but it still must either read, touch, pass over, or pass through a portal bearing the rune. Since Nox cannot read and won't be touching Bruno's amulet, there is no way the Dire Bat can trigger the symbol. Jindl will not focus on or touch Bruno's amulet, thus he will not read the rune, so he won't trigger the spell. This spell has been misused in previous fights and its time to put a stop to it.Here it is again. Trying to surprise another player and getting him "flatfooted" on the battlefield. I wonder, if you were so preoccupied about the use of this spell, why didn't you mention it on the rules thread in the first place? Why wait until someone uses it against you? I do remember you doing this before, trying to discredit the other player's tactics even before discussing them and some pitlords will follow blindly but I certainly wont. Characters are supposed to know what they are doing and so are their players, if this was a real campaign, it could be solved right there. It isn’t fair for you to try to gain an advantage when the other player has no other option. I do believe that a valid triggering method is approaching, as others mentioned are only a default. I believe this should be discussed further and pitlords should not allow this to happen. Have discussions with your players and make sure you are making the right decision before running the fight. Have them give you feedback BEFORE you run into a bitter discussion at the end of the week with players asking for re-runs for mistakes that "I think this changes the outcome of the fight". I believe all pitlords should strive to tell players about problems with their tactics instead of surprising them on the very last minute (read: Monday night or later : / ) with red ink all over their tactics. It isn’t much of a problem to scan for errors in tactics and I have always done this for every fight I run. I believe this messy tactics should not be tolerated. - DR
Mercy 09-22-04, 06:33 PM	How many credits does it take to make a Thri-Keen? By my calculations is takes 6 3*((2 Racial Hit Dice + 2 Level Adjustment) -2)
Druid Roxors 09-22-04, 06:37 PM	How many credits does it take to make a Thri-Keen? By my calculations is takes 6 3*((2 Racial Hit Dice + 2 Level Adjustment) -2) That is correct
cellardweller 09-22-04, 07:21 PM	1. Bear's Endurance is not on the Blackguard spell list. Shiaan will fight without this slot. 2. Shiaan's cohort does not get two stat increases (the 4 Magical Beast HD do not allow a stat increase, so its Strength is 23). Che? Why wouldn't Racial HD increase stats?
cellardweller 09-22-04, 07:25 PM	Pairings done. Changes in credits: Cat -1 Cellardweller
barrel_master 09-22-04, 10:01 PM	If I get my 5th lvl of Thaumaturgist will the board let me have a ANGEL, PLANETAR as an ally? If so, how would I allocate the stats on it?
LLMadCow 09-22-04, 10:56 PM	How many credits does it take to make a Thri-Keen? By my calculations is takes 6 3*((2 Racial Hit Dice + 2 Level Adjustment) -2) Sadly, I have yet to be able to find the Thri-Keen in the SRD 3.5 and thus, they are invalid for characters in The Arena. Cooll ideas and concepts, but so far, not allowed.....
LLMadCow 09-22-04, 11:04 PM	If I get my 5th lvl of Thaumaturgist will the board let me have a ANGEL, PLANETAR as an ally? If so, how would I allocate the stats on it? Technically speaking, I think that a Planetar is a legal cohort. So, you would assign attributes as per the cohort rules. Without looking at the exact rules, I am pretty sure that cohorts have a 25 point build. So, buy the attributes as you see fit and then add: Str 14, Dex 8, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 12 and Cha 12. Good luck. :)
Magagumo 09-22-04, 11:59 PM	Actually, madCow, Planetar's have no LA (because they seem to tally up to around 25th+ level characters by my rough estimate and Epic adjustments aren't included in the MM), and thus are not viable cohorts. Remember, HD are not the only restriction... Edit: Check the Appendices of the 3.5 MM, it states that racial HD do not count for stat boosts (and I know this discussion was held awhile back regarding Zedarak... somewhere in the threads).
Zerone 09-23-04, 01:09 AM	What happens if a mounted character is stunned, unconscious, held, etc. and they stay in the saddle? Does the mount just stand there? Does it avoid the enemy?
Druid Roxors 09-23-04, 11:14 AM	What happens if a mounted character is stunned, unconscious, held, etc. and they stay in the saddle? Does the mount just stand there? Does it avoid the enemy?I depends. If the mount has the "Defend" trick, he will attack the enemy if he identified the agression. If the mount didn't identify the agression it will flee or move arround. If the mount itself is attacked, it will either flee or attack depending on their nature (a horse typically flees while a warhorse fights) If the mount does not have the defend trick it will flee if his master is hit and act as above if the mount itself is attacked.
Pittbull 09-23-04, 12:35 PM	Determing leadership-score: is it the ECL that counts or the characterlevel, which you take minus your cha-mod?
Jindl 09-23-04, 02:39 PM	Determing leadership-score: is it the ECL that counts or the characterlevel, which you take minus your cha-mod? We (the GM's) decided that ECL counts for the leadership score, though 6 HD (racial and character level) are still required to qualify for the leadership feat. So, a Pixie must reach 6th level (ECL10) before it qualifies for the leadership feat, but then its leadership score would be ECL10 + Cha mod - any applicable penalties (familiar, recruiting different alignments, etc). BTW: Thanks again for finding such a great picture of Rhoar. It has been incorporated into his character sheet. :D -Jindl
Pittbull 09-23-04, 02:45 PM	Thanks! :thumbsup:
SnarkHunter 09-23-04, 02:58 PM	Pitlord rankings updated as per the end of last week. As should come as no great surprise Cat is again the Pitlord of the Week. His rating is also about 2x that of his closest competitors so he could be there for a while :).
barrel_master 09-23-04, 11:26 PM	Actually, madCow, Planetar's have no LA (because they seem to tally up to around 25th+ level characters by my rough estimate and Epic adjustments aren't included in the MM), and thus are not viable cohorts. Remember, HD are not the only restriction... Edit: Check the Appendices of the 3.5 MM, it states that racial HD do not count for stat boosts (and I know this discussion was held awhile back regarding Zedarak... somewhere in the threads). I think you're right... from the srd monsterintro-a 'Level Adjustment This line is included in the entries of creatures suitable for use as player characters or as cohorts (usually creatures with Intelligence scores of at least 3 and possessing opposable thumbs)'
Pittbull 09-24-04, 01:03 PM	@GMs and MODERATORS: I have a question regarding a restructure of of the whole CoCo-Board. Is it possible to make the pages on the fight-thread smaller and place the builds of the gladiators in the Gladiators and FAQ-Thread on the the second page? If you use an slower internet-connection than DSL or T1. It takes ages load the pages. Sometimes I load thread, take a shower (yeah, Snark!) and come back looking for the not yet finished page. Of I caricature this scenario a little bit, but sometimes I get quit bored of waiting. Perhaps there are things you can change to make the surf faster. Thanks
Jindl 09-24-04, 01:22 PM	@Pittbull - Most of that is just simply how the software runs, though we can ask Shadow if there is any ability to customize some of that stuff. Does it load faster if you follow a link to the fight you're looking at? -Jindl
Druid Roxors 09-24-04, 02:19 PM	@ Pitbull: The main reason why the fights and the gladiators must be placed within the same post is that we need to have a history about how the gladiators evoluted. If the pitlord only placed a link to the current gladiator it wouldnt be the same one than at the time of the battle. This is important when auditing a character and, overall, to have a complete history of the CoCo. Something I would suggest is that we link all fights done in a week to a single thread. I will make a test about this on the very first post of the Comments Thread and tell me if you like it. I belive it will benefit many who lack a good connection. (Note: The post is done, check the first reply (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=311778) to the thread)
Sindorin 09-24-04, 05:45 PM	I feel sheepish. I was bored and typed in "Sindorin" in a yahoo browser. It came up with lots of stuff... I didn't mean to take the name of an Elven language from Tolkeins "The Silmarillion" as my account name... I even read that book when I was like 11 or 12... I also didn't even know about the class M planet 'Sindorin' from Star Trek DS9. I hope my screen name doesn't offend anyone on these forums :D... It was mere coincidence.
Zerone 09-25-04, 01:13 AM	@ Everybody... Please, when you scride a scroll, you must state what your character's Caster Level is when cast, like this: CL x Otherwise, how is a moderator to know what the level is? You might have scribed it 2 levels ago... :headexplo Thanks, *•. Zerone
kedi 09-25-04, 09:29 AM	REGARDING ALIGNMENT MULTICLASSING: Ex-Barbarians: A barbarian who becomes lawful loses the ability to rage and cannot gain more levels as a barbarian. He retains all the other benefits of the class (damage reduction, fast movement, trap sense, and uncanny dodge). Ex-Monks: A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities. Like a member of any other class, a monk may be a multiclass character, but multiclass monks face a special restriction. A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities. According to those quotes, a CN Barbarian/Monk person would have all of her monk abilities, fast movement, illiteracy, and damage reduction, trapsense and uncanny dodges if had any,and can't be a barbarian again and can't be monk unless changes back to lawful. A CN Monk/Barbarian would have all of her monk and barbarian abilities, and can freely take levels in barbarian class. When changing the alignment after taking a level of a alignment based class (for example: Assassin), and if there're no notes about alginement change; you are not treated to be an ex member of the class, have all of your abilities and can take levels is that class if you change your alignment back.
Jindl 09-25-04, 09:30 AM	@ Everybody... Please, when you scride a scroll, you must state what your character's Caster Level is when cast, like this: CL x Otherwise, how is a moderator to know what the level is? You might have scribed it 2 levels ago... :headexplo Thanks, *•. Zerone Z- Assume it is the min CL, unless it is written differently, or you can tell that it should be higher than the min (you can figure out its a 9th level magic missile scroll because it cost 157.5 to scribe instead of 17.5). I do agree that it would be nice if everybody would just write the CL though. :nonono: -Jindl
Zerone 09-25-04, 10:50 AM	Please help a budding Pitlord... What does this mean??? "Distraction" - EXTENDED AC II with Celerity[+10 Movement] and Buff[+5 HP]. (5pp) Thanks for your help!!! :D *•. Zerone
Druid Roxors 09-25-04, 12:26 PM	ATTENTION ELDERS! Several new issues have been placed in the Elder's Council (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299338). Given that Tellish of Ket will remain inactive for a few more weeks, I have taken the job of updating the council thread. Please review and discuss the following issues in the appropriate Threads. Feel free to add additional issues (send me a PM). New Issues: X 10 Round rule: a. Cumulative? b. Non-cumulative? XI Bought allies resurrected for free: a. Aye? b. Nay? XII False Life Stacking a. Do-Stack b. Only 1 is discharged at a time and they take over in succession c. No stacking, all are drained at the same time. Current Discussion (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4167916#post4167916) Starting on post #32 XIII Maze Spell a. Caster loses for 10-round Invulnerability b. Target loses for 10-round Leaving unless he succeeds c. Target gets 10 rounds doing whatever he wants and then returns. d. Target gets 5 rounds doing whatever he wants and 5 attempting checks (auto-return still) e. Target gets 10 rounds attempting checks, no actions allowed. XIV Review/update/edit/reverse any ruling from the old senate thread
Jindl 09-25-04, 02:18 PM	Please help a budding Pitlord... What does this mean??? "Distraction" - EXTENDED AC II with Celerity[+10 Movement] and Buff[+5 HP]. (5pp) Thanks for your help!!! :D *•. Zerone I responded on the FotW thread. -Jindl
WizO_Shadow 09-25-04, 05:30 PM	@GMs and MODERATORS: I have a question regarding a restructure of of the whole CoCo-Board. Is it possible to make the pages on the fight-thread smaller and place the builds of the gladiators in the Gladiators and FAQ-Thread on the the second page? If you use an slower internet-connection than DSL or T1. It takes ages load the pages. Sometimes I load thread, take a shower (yeah, Snark!) and come back looking for the not yet finished page. Of I caricature this scenario a little bit, but sometimes I get quit bored of waiting. Perhaps there are things you can change to make the surf faster. Thanks Well, there are several factors contributing here: 1. It's been noted by other GM's that after a thread gets to 1000 posts it takes too long to load and they start a new thread. 2. We are still in the midst of the boards upgrade. They are tweaking small things like a reply button on your PM's. well, ok, that's all I can think of atm. WizO_Shadow
barrel_master 09-26-04, 03:09 PM	Question on cohort initiatives... do they act on their own? I've always thought so but I've seen animal familiars act on their owner's init.
Magagumo 09-26-04, 03:12 PM	It's generally up to the Mod- I generally state that standard mounts and familiars act with the master, but that intelligent mounts have a separate intiiative (as they may perform other tasks other than simply carrying the rider, and thsu would act on their own initiative). Shiaan's cohort is a good example of thsi, as it can buff and grapple opponents on its own, so I would state that the two roll them separately (oen could then delay to match the other's init). It's of course Druid's call on that one ;).
cellardweller 09-26-04, 09:06 PM	The srd specifically states: Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. Anything else would be a house rule. This was the exact reason that Shiaan took Improved inititative instead of having shade take it.
Beldin 09-27-04, 06:59 AM	arghh, another wasted feat (craft woundrous), I should have looked at the Bard spell list more closely :mad:
Zerone 09-27-04, 10:39 AM	Can you have more than 1 cohort at the same time? If so, how do you determine the level of the second and future cohorts? What modifiers can you add to your Cohort Score (special power, great renown, etc.)? Thanks for any help, :D *•. Zerone
Druid Roxors 09-27-04, 10:43 AM	Can you have more than 1 cohort at the same time? If so, how do you determine the level of the second and future cohorts? What modifiers can you add to your Cohort Score (special power, great renown, etc.)? Thanks for any help, :D *•. Zerone You may only have 1 ally in the arena. Be it one Animal Companion, familiar, planar ally, summon, special mount, Trained animal, bought animal or cohort. Basically, you are not encouraged to fight 3v1 which is why only 1 cohort is allowed. Your cohort level is not modified by anything that would require DM intervention (renown, special power, etc) but having other cohorts (like an animal companion) does grant a penalty. I hope it helped :)
Zerone 09-27-04, 10:49 AM	Yes, that helps, but could you have 1 cohort who is a fighter, 1 mage cohort, and 1 cleric cohort, so you have a choice between the 3 of who you want to bring into the arena?
Druid Roxors 09-27-04, 10:53 AM	Depends. You cannot get 2 cohorts from the Leadership feat (you get other "followers" but 1 cohort). If you have other allies, for instance a Thrall, a planar Ally or animal companion, you can choose to use any of them on your tactics. Just like having bought 1 heavy warhorse and 1 light warhorse, you can choose which one to use within your tactics. (note that having other allies reduces your Leadership score)
Sindorin 09-27-04, 11:06 AM	Yes that is why if Tair Malek or any other red wizard gets to fifth level of their class with a decent charisma score, WATCH OUT... bwahahaha. There'll be lots of little followers running around with tatoo focus and one badass evoker with an effective caster level around oh, twenty two or so. Wheeeee.
Zerone 09-27-04, 11:31 AM	Depends. You cannot get 2 cohorts from the Leadership feat (you get other "followers" but 1 cohort). If you have other allies, for instance a Thrall, a planar Ally or animal companion, you can choose to use any of them on your tactics. Just like having bought 1 heavy warhorse and 1 light warhorse, you can choose which one to use within your tactics. (note that having other allies reduces your Leadership score) In the DMG, page 104, it states, "There are no limitations on class, race, or gender of a character's cohorts, nor limits to the number of cohorts that can be employed by the character." This is why I asked the question. It seems to me that you can have any number of cohorts...
Sindorin 09-27-04, 02:12 PM	I haven't tinkered around with cohorts that much, so... A cohort gets 25 points, right? How many points would each follower get? thanks for any help
Jindl 09-27-04, 02:19 PM	I haven't tinkered around with cohorts that much, so... A cohort gets 25 points, right? How many points would each follower get? thanks for any help Although I doubt it will ever come up, a follower would be built with 25 pts as well. But, who is going to bring a Lvl 1 follower to an ECL8 fight, when they could bring their Lvl6 Cohort? Also, there is a rule in effect requiring that if an ally aids in creating a prebuff, then that ally must participate in the fight. This prevents PC's from having 2 allies, one who spends all their spells to prebuff, and the other who actually accompanies the PC to the fight. This rule would prevent using multiple followers to create Circle Magic for use in prebuffing, because then all of the circle participants would have to enter the fight, and you are still limited to only 1 ally. You could teleport some allies into the fight to exceed the 1 ally rule, but that is fairly expensive (either in spell slots or in scrolls/magic items). It could allow you to use Circle Magic during a fight, though. -Jindl
Sindorin 09-27-04, 02:24 PM	Although I doubt it will ever come up, a follower would be built with 25 pts as well. But, who is going to bring a Lvl 1 follower to an ECL8 fight, when they could bring their Lvl6 Cohort? Also, there is a rule in effect requiring that if an ally aids in creating a prebuff, then that ally must participate in the fight. This prevents PC's from having 2 allies, one who spends all their spells to prebuff, and the other who actually accompanies the PC to the fight. This rule would prevent using multiple followers to create Circle Magic for use in prebuffing, because then all of the circle participants would have to enter the fight, and you are still limited to only 1 ally. You could teleport some allies into the fight to exceed the 1 ally rule, but that is fairly expensive (either in spell slots or in scrolls/magic items). It could allow you to use Circle Magic during a fight, though. -Jindl ah, thank you. I was not aware of the prebuff participation rule... that does put a damper on things... EDIT: A follow up question - In what manner could they be teleported in?
Jindl 09-27-04, 02:42 PM	A follow up question - In what manner could they be teleported in? You could use a Bracelet of Friends (wondrous item from the DMG), or simply teleport out to them, touch them all, teleport back in with them. The first trick uses a somewhat expensive 1 shot magic item. The second uses up 2 high level spell slots and is subject to the 10 round count out rule. -Jindl
Sindorin 09-27-04, 02:51 PM	heh, yeah, i have 19,000 gold right here i can just blow every fight on that. It won't be necessary til later on though, so I'm not extremely worried about it yet. In terms of teleportation, Tair can't learn Conjuration spells... so is Refuge, which would be required for me to craft the bracelet. *sigh* maybe I should have prohibited something else. :banghead:
barrel_master 09-27-04, 02:56 PM	I was wondering if anyone was going to activate their lvl 14 characters as I'd prefer not to sit out again... not that it's anyone's fault. Just asking.
Jindl 09-27-04, 02:58 PM	Tair's cohort (who I assume will also be a Red Wizard), could take a different prohibited school and learn/use teleport. Cohorts aren't allowed to craft, so he won't be able to make the bracelet, but you could put the Cohort in charge of bringing in the followers to make the circle with. I don't think this will work well in the arena, as one good fireball and your circle is toasted. But you're welcome to try it. -Jindl
Jindl 09-27-04, 02:58 PM	I was wondering if anyone was going to activate their lvl 14 characters as I'd prefer not to sit out again... not that it's anyone's fault. Just asking. I was planning to activate Aku. -Jindl
Sindorin 09-27-04, 03:12 PM	Tair's cohort (who I assume will also be a Red Wizard), could take a different prohibited school and learn/use teleport. Cohorts aren't allowed to craft, so he won't be able to make the bracelet, but you could put the Cohort in charge of bringing in the followers to make the circle with. I don't think this will work well in the arena, as one good fireball and your circle is toasted. But you're welcome to try it. -Jindl ah, i hadn't thought about that yet... good point. Thanks J, you've been a lot of help! The circle would only have to act for one round in which they cast all their spells, then the cohort could simply teleport them all out. It will provide for a somewhat small buff, but it will be fun to try once I get to level 11. Once again, thanks.
Zerone 09-27-04, 05:58 PM	Since people who contribute to Circle Magic as a pre-buff have to be part of the fight, is it as long as they are there for at least 1 round or that they must start in the battle? 2 very different things... Zerone
Sindorin 09-27-04, 06:05 PM	Since people who contribute to Circle Magic as a pre-buff have to be part of the fight, is it as long as they are there for at least 1 round or that they must start in the battle? 2 very different things... Zerone They only have to be in for as long as they need to perform the buff i.e. form a circle and cast their spell. I suppose we could make the prebuff and then teleport them in for however long they need to be in, have them do something so they 'participate' and then get them out of there... I'm sure measures will be taken if we get out of hand with our little red wizards :)
Jindl 09-27-04, 06:07 PM	If an ally casts a prebuff on the PC, then that ally must be brought to the fight with the PC. This means they must be present when the fight begins. -Jindl
Sindorin 09-27-04, 06:21 PM	Curses, foiled again :)
Zerone 09-27-04, 06:27 PM	If an ally casts a prebuff on the PC, then that ally must be brought to the fight with the PC. This means they must be present when the fight begins. -Jindl Where is this information located? I would like to read the section, so I have a better understanding of the CoCo's view on the topic. Thanks! :D
Zerone 09-27-04, 06:38 PM	Also... You cannot get 2 cohorts from the Leadership feat (you get other "followers" but 1 cohort). If you have other allies, for instance a Thrall, a planar Ally or animal companion, you can choose to use any of them on your tactics. Just like having bought 1 heavy warhorse and 1 light warhorse, you can choose which one to use within your tactics. (note that having other allies reduces your Leadership score) In the DMG, page 104, it states, "There are no limitations on class, race, or gender of a character's cohorts, nor limits to the number of cohorts that can be employed by the character." This is why I asked the question. It seems to me that you can have any number of cohorts... Don't know if this got overlooked on the other page or not, but I would still really like an answer! Thanks :D Zerone
Magagumo 09-27-04, 08:00 PM	This is essentially a house rule in the CoCo both to make the Mods job easier, and to cut down on "swarming" tactics, where an indiividual of high Charisma gains themselves a class-based cohort, then a LEadership cohort (and perhaps that cohort's familiar, nanimal companion, etc.) For example, a Paladin of tremendous Charsima could otherwise net a special mount, cohort (even with the reduction to his score, the Paladin code {possible bonus of fairness} and the massive Charisma will negate the -2 penalty), and perhaps even a trained animal/magical beast (w/ Handle Animal). Fearing the overwhelming unfairness of this scenario, we have culled it back to one single ally. Edit: Since I am unsure if I should be sending this to WizOShadow or not, I'll state this here: None of my characters will fight this next week and I can mod no fights. I'm not leaving, just giving high priority to my studies. I'll be fighting again next week with any luck :)
Sindorin 09-27-04, 08:35 PM	I know these endlessly redundant questions keep popping up... but... Can your cohort have a cohort? This might have come up somewhere else, I'm just not sure where it is.
WizO_Shadow 09-27-04, 08:53 PM	Edit: Since I am unsure if I should be sending this to WizOShadow or not, I'll state this here: None of my characters will fight this next week and I can mod no fights. I'm not leaving, just giving high priority to my studies. I'll be fighting again next week with any luck :) Yes! Thank you for telling me! Noted and hurry back! :D Shadow
WizO_Shadow 09-27-04, 09:53 PM	Some of the Roster has been updated with the fights that have been handed in thus far. Any issues? Shadow, learning as she goes! P.S. A HUGE thank you to Druid Roxors for helping me get through this.
Druid Roxors 09-27-04, 11:37 PM	No problem! Glad I could be of help :) Note the Pairings tab will be updated tomorrow as well as the Pitlord status. Fights are due Today, penalties apply tomorrow morning. (in this side of the world, at least :P)
cellardweller 09-28-04, 03:52 AM	I was wondering if anyone was going to activate their lvl 14 characters as I'd prefer not to sit out again... not that it's anyone's fault. Just asking. Shiaan will be active at 14 next week. Also I noticed Peter is not using Contingent summon the way that was agreed on when Johan first picked it up. The decision at the time was: 1) You have to specify what you are summoning 2) You have to specify what condition triggers the summoning. 3) It does not use a spell slot See any of Johan's fights (except the last one) for an example.
Druid Roxors 09-28-04, 04:04 AM	Shiaan will be active at 14 next week. Also I noticed Peter is not using Contingent summon the way that was agreed on when Johan first picked it up. The decision at the time was: 1) You have to specify what you are summoning 2) You have to specify what condition triggers the summoning. 3) It does not use a spell slot See any of Johan's fights (except the last one) for an example. Are you sure about that? I thought if the spell didn't have a Permanent or Instantaneous duration, one had to spend a slot.
cellardweller 09-28-04, 04:22 AM	Am I sure that was what was agreed - yes. Am I sure that is the correct interpretation - no. The discussion on Contingent summoning predated the discussion that led to contingency being made a "day of the fight" pre-buff. So it could be reinterpreted in that light.
KerlanRayne 09-28-04, 05:17 AM	Some of the Roster has been updated with the fights that have been handed in thus far. Any issues? Well, the Cyric Tor vs Cresting Sun fight has changed to Cresting loses and Cyric wins (instead of a bump). KerlanRayne
Caterane 09-28-04, 06:43 AM	Hey guys, I have found something cool: http://www.cyborgname.com/ This is mine: http://www.cyborgname.com/cybimages/C/governor2k3-CAT.jpg Edit: Here´s another one. If that doesn´t fit, nothing does :D http://www.cyborgname.com/cybimages/W/yamasora-WIZO+SHADOW.jpg
Druid Roxors 09-28-04, 08:51 AM	Well, the Cyric Tor vs Cresting Sun fight has changed to Cresting loses and Cyric wins (instead of a bump). KerlanRayne Could Zerone Edit the fight to reflect this? Thanks!
Zerone 09-28-04, 09:27 AM	Could Zerone Edit the fight to reflect this? Thanks! Cyric Tor vs. Cresting Sun is now updated to the final revision. Again, thanks for everyone's patience and help! Zerone
Kaigan 09-28-04, 11:29 AM	I just have a quick question: Will the fights still be up?? I mean, most of the fights are usually up by tuesday morning. I'm just wondering if they will be up or if the deadline has changed, allowing gm's more time.
Pittbull 09-28-04, 11:36 AM	I just have a quick question: Will the fights still be up?? I mean, most of the fights are usually up by tuesday morning. I'm just wondering if they will be up or if the deadline has changed, allowing gm's more time. Just look above, LL told us that his fights will be late. I didn't hear anything about a change of the deadline. Greetings! :D
Druid Roxors 09-28-04, 11:51 AM	It has been mentioned lots of times already, there is really no excuse for pitlords. Wednessday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday, all had announcements that Deadlines wouldn't change. Although Shadow might allow a few more hours to hand them in, due to the recent happenings in the CoCo. 3 Fights are missing: The Metatron (Zerone) vs Darkblade (Kedi): LLMadCow Bruden Greystone (Boldrift-Mattock) vs Tacitus (LLMadCow): Kedi Eiletha Surion (Kaigan) vs Jin Szen (Zerone): LLMadCow Please hand them in as soon as possible.
Jindl 09-28-04, 12:10 PM	3 Fights are missing: The Metatron (Zerone) vs Darkblade (Kedi): LLMadCow Bruden Greystone (Boldrift-Mattock) vs Tacitus (LLMadCow): Kedi Eiletha Surion (Kaigan) vs Jin Szen (Zerone): LLMadCow Please hand them in as soon as possible. I believe that Kedi posted that he had not recieved tactics from either combatant. That pairing should be undone and the PC's set inactive until we hear from the players. Kedi, of course, should not be penalized. As for LLMadCow's fights, he is already past the deadline, has posted as such, so the fights should be considered late with the normal associated penalties. Since Metatron vs Darkblade was originally assigned to Kazzaroth, LLMadCow should not be penalized for taking it over. However, the normal penalty should apply for the Eiletha vs Jin Szen fight.
Beldin 09-28-04, 12:58 PM	:) once GM, always GM ;)
Jindl 09-28-04, 01:03 PM	Shiaan will be active at 14 next week. Also I noticed Peter is not using Contingent summon the way that was agreed on when Johan first picked it up. The decision at the time was: 1) You have to specify what you are summoning 2) You have to specify what condition triggers the summoning. 3) It does not use a spell slot See any of Johan's fights (except the last one) for an example. As you suggested in a later post, the contingent summoning should be reinterpreted using the most recent ruling on contingency. 1. You have to specify what you are summoning. 2. You have to specify the triggering condition. 3. It DOES use a spell slot for the summoning spell. Also, I just completed an audit on Shiaan. Please see the violation thread for details. -Jindl @Beldin: ;)
barrel_master 09-28-04, 01:34 PM	Shiaan will be active at 14 next week. Also I noticed Peter is not using Contingent summon the way that was agreed on when Johan first picked it up. The decision at the time was: 1) You have to specify what you are summoning 2) You have to specify what condition triggers the summoning. 3) It does not use a spell slot See any of Johan's fights (except the last one) for an example. Hummm... fair enough. I thought that you had to use only rule 2...
kedi 09-28-04, 02:27 PM	I got: K.E.D.I.: Killing and Efficient Destructive Individual.... :rofl:
Druid Roxors 09-28-04, 02:42 PM	Hey Kedi, I guess it looks fine in your comptuer (because you have the font), but your SIG doesn't show correctly. I have not seen a single computer which displays it correctly, this is what I see: [font=century gothic][color=darkred]K.E.D.I.: KILLING AND EFFICIENT DESTRUCTION INDIVIDUAL "A man commits a crime -he should know better- we have him killed and feel good about it, or we kill him ourselves and feel even better. That's not power, though, that's justice, it's different than power. Power is when we have every justification to kill and we don't." [b]-Oskar SchindlerAdd a few bold faces and sizes
Jindl 09-28-04, 02:44 PM	Mine shows it correctly :P @WizO_Shadow - Aku is my only active PC this week. Please set my requested number of fights to run to <one>. Please don't give me any fights > 8th level this week, as I won't be able to run fights until Monday. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 09-28-04, 02:58 PM	Mine shows it correctly :P @WizO_Shadow - Aku is my only active PC this week. Please set my requested number of fights to run to <one>. Please don't give me any fights > 8th level this week, as I won't be able to run fights until Monday. -Jindl Remember to send this by PM to her or Email. KEDI: You are not recieving late penalties but your fight is still "late" just for the record. (Shadow is a very organized individual :)) Roster update will be done this afternoon, keep an eye for it. > Yes, I'm keeping track of all changes that need to be done (Cresting Sun Vs Cyric, Jindl's PCs, Kedi's non-late penalties, LLMadCow's 1 fight penalty only, etc)
Zerone 09-28-04, 06:06 PM	@ Kedi: Your SIG appears normal to me...
Druid Roxors 09-28-04, 06:15 PM	@ Kedi: Your SIG appears normal to me... NOOO!!! First Jindl now you!! Why am I so cursed!!! (alright ill download the damned font! :P)
Zerone 09-28-04, 06:39 PM	If I have a Level 5 Human Thief with a 12 Int and a 12 Cha and take a level of Ranger for level 6, can I spend all of the skill points as follows? +9 Handle Animal (0T, 8R, +1 Cha) Thanks! :D *•. Zerone
Druid Roxors 09-28-04, 06:41 PM	Yep. You can spell all those points in HA in the same level with no problem.
Beldin 09-28-04, 06:44 PM	yes hmpf
WizO_Shadow 09-28-04, 08:37 PM	ROFL!! Hey guys, I have found something cool: http://www.cyborgname.com/ This is mine: http://www.cyborgname.com/cybimages/C/governor2k3-CAT.jpg Edit: Here´s another one. If that doesn´t fit, nothing does :D http://www.cyborgname.com/cybimages/W/yamasora-WIZO+SHADOW.jpg
LLMadCow 09-28-04, 11:13 PM	I believe that Kedi posted that he had not recieved tactics from either combatant. That pairing should be undone and the PC's set inactive until we hear from the players. Kedi, of course, should not be penalized. As for LLMadCow's fights, he is already past the deadline, has posted as such, so the fights should be considered late with the normal associated penalties. Since Metatron vs Darkblade was originally assigned to Kazzaroth, LLMadCow should not be penalized for taking it over. However, the normal penalty should apply for the Eiletha vs Jin Szen fight. I was unable to get onto the boards last night, despite several attempts. My roommate, McTemplate was kind enough to post the one fight for me, today, but was unaware of the other fight still needing to be posted. Please speak to Druid Roxors for verification, as I was able to IM him and make him aware of the situation. I have posted both fights, and would request re-consideration.
Druid Roxors 09-28-04, 11:21 PM	I was unable to get onto the boards last night, despite several attempts. My roommate, McTemplate was kind enough to post the one fight for me, today, but was unaware of the other fight still needing to be posted. Please speak to Druid Roxors for verification, as I was able to IM him and make him aware of the situation. I have posted both fights, and would request re-consideration.I did mentioned this but it seems like the consensus is that you should get the penalty. In my opinion, you shouldn't recieve the penalty but the Roster is not in my hands. Speak to WizO_Shadow about this and try to get the elders to consider it, we do need some active pitlords this week.
Druid Roxors 09-29-04, 09:16 AM	By the way, Pairings are going to happen as normal. 9pm GMT thats 3 pm Central. Ready your characters, Ill see if shadow can start placing [ok] tags on you. The actual pairings results might take some extra time, nevertheless, character editing beyond the deadline is an auto-lose.
Druid Roxors 09-29-04, 03:31 PM	The pairings will commence in 30 minutes. Please finish all your editing before the Deadline. Characters who violate this space of time will NOT be paired.
WizO_Shadow 09-29-04, 03:58 PM	All pairings will begin momentarily, any edits on character sheets afterwards is not allowed. Shadow
WizO_Shadow 09-29-04, 05:41 PM	I was unable to get onto the boards last night, despite several attempts. My roommate, McTemplate was kind enough to post the one fight for me, today, but was unaware of the other fight still needing to be posted. Please speak to Druid Roxors for verification, as I was able to IM him and make him aware of the situation. I have posted both fights, and would request re-consideration. Re-considered and no penalty this time. My apologies for any confusion. You're on the roster to pitlord this week. Shadow
WizO_Shadow 09-29-04, 05:44 PM	The PitLord account isn't active so cannot recieve PM's. Please direct them to WizO_Shadow until future notice (ToK returning or other happenstance). My email is shadow at wizo.wizards.com . Please replace at with @ . Shadowyness, about to pair up with pitlords.
Sindorin 09-29-04, 06:02 PM	A quick question for anyone who might know... Where did the Organization Threads go? I ask this as I was looking to update the Brotherhood Thread and found it is no longer present... I take it we are just playing the organizations on the roleplay thread?
Zerone 09-29-04, 06:12 PM	At what level are all the classes equal? I know there will always be a class that outshines, but there has to be a level where everyone is basically equal... Any ideas, I'd love to hear them! Zerone
Tyros Elessar 09-29-04, 06:21 PM	Hello :) Finnaly I've been able to get some room in my life for this board, so I was wondering if I could join in as either a centaur or a bugbear (preferebly a centaur). Is it possible? And if I started out as a centaur, a 2nd lvl char, I'd have to fight lvl 4 chars because of the level adjustment, right?
Sindorin 09-29-04, 06:22 PM	@Zerone There's been an ongoing feud to attempt to 'try' to balance the classes, but it has also been said that they are designed to be unbalanced at different stages. The wizard is made to be extremely powerful at higher levels. I'd say the perfect balance begins when one person makes a character one way, and faces a build made a certain way, maybe a different class... but optimized, the closest I've seen is level 1. Edit: Welcome Tyros! Later on you would be able to play a bugbear or centaur, but you would require credits to do so. Credits can be earned by pitlording fights, among other things. Typically you may begin pitlording fights after you've been here for two weeks.
Tyros Elessar 09-29-04, 06:31 PM	Oh... I didn't see anything about that in the rules... *shrugs* oh well. so what would be the races that I'm not allowed to play without the credits?
Zerone 09-29-04, 06:46 PM	Greetings Tyros Elessar! :D Welcome to the CoCo! As for your questions, a bugbear starts with 2 racial hit die, a +1 LA, whichis an ECL of 3, and still needs 1 character level, I think, making it ECL 4 to start. A centaur has 4 racial hit dice, and a +2 LA, +1 level would make it an ECL 7 to start. To use a class with an ECL higher than 2 you need credits. You can earn credits by Pitlording fights (running them). I believe that that the CoCo will spot you 2 credits to begin with, so if I am correct, you could not start with one of those choices... however it will give you something to work towards... :D If you have more questions, just post them here and we, everyone in the CoCo, will try to answer them. Best of luck to thee in the comming battles, gladiator... *•. Zerone
Sindorin 09-29-04, 06:53 PM	All characters begin at Effective Character Level 2. This means you may play any core/psionic race that doesn't have a level adjustment greater than +1. Off the top of my head... PHB races Dromite (LA+1) Duergar (LA+1) Elan Half-giant (LA+1) Maenad Xeph Blue (LA+1) Goblin Hobgoblin (LA+1) Kobold Merfolk (LA+1) Orc Planetouched(Aasimar) (LA+1) Planetouched(Tiefling) (LA+1) For every level above two your character is created you must spend three credits. The Bugbear has 3 racial hit dice and a +1 level adjustment, plus a minimum starting class level of 1, so you would have to start a bugbear character at fifth level, requiring a total of nine credits. The Centaur has 4 racial hit dice and a +2 level adjustment, plus a minimum class level of 1, so you would have to start a centaur character at seventh level, requiring a total of fifteen credits.
Tyros Elessar 09-29-04, 06:59 PM	Ok, thanks for the help :) I gotta go to bed now, but I'll write up a character sheet first thing in the morning :) Cya! :D P.S.: Thanks for the help, again :D
Sindorin 09-29-04, 07:09 PM	Any time! Unfortunately, when you post your character you'll have to wait until next week's pairings, as they are being set today. If there's another ECL 2 character that isn't ready/doesn't get paired and wants to, you have a willing pitlord right here for the fight.
SnarkHunter 09-29-04, 07:09 PM	Actually both the Bug Bear and the Centuar would begin with only thier racial hitdice. So at level 4 and 6 respectivly. Velcome!
Sindorin 09-29-04, 07:14 PM	heh, for some reason I thought i had read somewhere that said "all characters must enter the arena with at least one class level." I guess I was simply mistaken. No harm done for the time being.
Druid Roxors 09-29-04, 08:19 PM	Yep! Wellcome Tyros. The help provided by Zerone and Sindorin will prove useful, just a little notes I wanted to clarify.As for your questions, a bugbear starts with 2 racial hit die, a +1 LA, whichis an ECL of 3, and still needs 1 character level, I think, making it ECL 4 to start. A centaur has 4 racial hit dice, and a +2 LA, +1 level would make it an ECL 7 to start. Racial hitdie count as levels. A bugbear starts with 3 racial hitdie and +1 LA. You can start without a class (in fact, you cannot start with a class if you have 2+ racial HD). That would make a Centaur a level 4 combatant. To use a class with an ECL higher than 2 you need credits. You can earn credits by Pitlording fights (running them). I believe that that the CoCo will spot you 2 credits to begin with, so if I am correct, you could not start with one of those choices... however it will give you something to work towards... :D You start with 0 credits when you first hop in, but its easy to have a level 3 combatant with no credits, you can go into negative credits and pay them off later. But a level 4 combatant is a little bit more difficult. Nice to have you on board! :) - DR, CoCo Elder
SnarkHunter 09-29-04, 08:28 PM	Its that time of the week again: Pitlord Ratings (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4505889&posted=1#post4505889)! Once again Cat is leading the pack though Zerone and Mag are in a close fight for the #2 position. If anyone has coments or concerns please address them to me via email or PM.
Beldin 09-30-04, 02:22 AM	@Snark: if you want to have Bilo fight, you could fight Aemon if we find a pitlord.
SnarkHunter 09-30-04, 03:12 AM	Mmmm that would be fun, any volunteers?
Zerone 09-30-04, 10:41 AM	I could take it, but you'd have to get me your tactics a little early, by Friday or Saturday Morning, as I could only do it on Saturday or Sunday...? Lemmie know... *•. Zerone
Sindorin 09-30-04, 10:56 AM	I would take it as I'd probably have a lot of time to do it, but I would be slightly biased towards Aemon as my own character is facing Snark's this week, and also the formula: Let Sindorin = s Let a High Level Fight = x Let d = disaster s + x = d
Beldin 09-30-04, 10:57 AM	Thankyou Zerone; that is no problem for me, I'll do tactics in a few hours and send them to you.
kedi 09-30-04, 11:18 AM	Welcome Tyros! :) As mentioned above, unfortunately you can't ATM post a centaur or bugbear. And in order to pitlord, you have to wait two weeks to understand how things are done here. When you're finally a pitlord, you start to have the real fun -monstrous characters. After then, you can take up to 3 negative credits to have a high ECL character. So you'd have to wait minimum: 5 weeks for Bugbear (2 weeks penalty, 3 weeks credits, 3 negative credits) 8 weeks for Centaur (2 weeks penalty, 6 weeks credits, 3 negative credits) At the time you're waiting, your character could reach the level 6-10! So patient *is* your best friend. :) If you can post your character sheet, I could activate Darkblade -or if another person wants to activate his 2nd level char I could pitlord, fine by me either way. Again, welcome to this addictive board. :)
Anerleif 09-30-04, 11:35 AM	Hello all! I've looked at this site many times, much like Tyros it seems, and have not been able to partake in its glory. I wanted to keep my handle different from the RP sites here, so here I am as a complete noob. If I understand it correctly, I'll have to DM a few fights to play most of the monster races? In that case I could make a human with 2 levels, correct?
Sindorin 09-30-04, 11:42 AM	Welcome Tyros! :) As mentioned above, unfortunately you can't ATM post a centaur or bugbear. And in order to pitlord, you have to wait two weeks to understand how things are done here. When you're finally a pitlord, you start to have the real fun -monstrous characters. After then, you can take up to 3 negative credits to have a high ECL character. So you'd have to wait minimum: 5 weeks for Bugbear (2 weeks penalty, 3 weeks credits, 3 negative credits) 8 weeks for Centaur (2 weeks penalty, 6 weeks credits, 3 negative credits) At the time you're waiting, your character could reach the level 6-10! So patient *is* your best friend. :) If you can post your character sheet, I could activate Darkblade -or if another person wants to activate his 2nd level char I could pitlord, fine by me either way. Again, welcome to this addictive board. :) And like I said earlier, I can take it if you both get tactics to me. Hello all! I've looked at this site many times, much like Tyros it seems, and have not been able to partake in its glory. I wanted to keep my handle different from the RP sites here, so here I am as a complete noob. If I understand it correctly, I'll have to DM a few fights to play most of the monster races? In that case I could make a human with 2 levels, correct? Yes, a human with two levels in any core/psionic class and 1000 gp in equipment found on the SRD (System Resource Document) would be a lovely addition.
kedi 09-30-04, 11:46 AM	@Anerleif: Yes. :) Welcome to you too! This is a wonderful week, two new players (three if shadow posts one). Yes,you can post a ECL2 character and setit to 06.10.04 pairing, which is next wednesday. Check the Introductive post at Gladiators page and if you have problems understanding the rules ask them here. And like I said earlier, I can take it if you both get tactics to me. Coolishness. I'll send the tacticsas soon as he posts his sheet.
Zerone 09-30-04, 11:57 AM	@ Kedi, Beldin, & SnarkHunter: We should ok this additional fight activity with Shadow first, don't you think? Since it is your fights, I'll leave it up to you to contact her... @Anerleif: Welcome to the CoCo. As mentioned above, please read the Gladiator's and FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=190985) posts, page 1. This is where character generation and item creation/purchasing rules can be found. The character sheet can be found just after those posts on page 1. Good luck on the battlefield! *•. Zerone
kedi 09-30-04, 12:03 PM	@ Kedi, Beldin, & SnarkHunter: We should ok this additional fight activity with Shadow first, don't you think? Since it is your fights, I'll leave it up to you to contact her... *•. ZeroneYea... She's online and trying to reach her though she's idle. I'll post ASAP, aka when I'll contact her.
Caterane 09-30-04, 01:53 PM	Hello all! I've looked at this site many times, much like Tyros it seems, and have not been able to partake in its glory. I wanted to keep my handle different from the RP sites here, so here I am as a complete noob. If I understand it correctly, I'll have to DM a few fights to play most of the monster races? In that case I could make a human with 2 levels, correct? Welcome to the Core Coliseum, Anerleif! Here is a link to the Quickstart Guide (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2700324) which will help you with your first steps. If you have any questions, you can ask either here in the Tavern, or send me a PM. We are all glad to have you here and will help you to the best of our abilities. Cat
SnarkHunter 09-30-04, 02:50 PM	Before you write tactics Beldin, just one thing I wanted to mention: I forgot to update my sheet from after the Bilo fight, I actually don't have any poisons or the scroll of Greater Dispel Magic. Ok. Carry on.
Zerone 09-30-04, 10:36 PM	Can you double move a horse and then cast a spell at DC 10 Concentration, or cast then double move the horse for DC 10 Concentration?
Druid Roxors 09-30-04, 10:44 PM	When you double-move a horse you HAVE to cast your spell in between of those moves. You single move, cast spell with DC 10 check, Single move.
LLMadCow 10-01-04, 12:26 AM	@Kedi - What happened with the Tacitus Fight? Is it going to be run? Should I set the character as ready for a new week? I would have had a different charater fight if I knew nothing would have been run...
KerlanRayne 10-01-04, 04:27 AM	Judging from the fact that the creation of Tattoos and Power Stones never mentions Metapsionic feats (unlike scrolls), I am growing sure that one cannot apply metapsionic feats to the items.In answer, I found this: Psionic Items and Metapsionic Powers: With the right psionic item creation feat, you can store a metapsionic power in a power stone, psionic tattoo, or dorje. Level limits for psionic tattoos apply to the power’s higher metapsionic level. A character doesn’t need the appropriate metapsionic feat to activate an item in which a metapsionic power is stored, but does need the metapsionic feat to create such an item.So it is possible. Furthermore, we should all know that it is impossible to apply two metapsionic feats to a power until Epic levels...I still say you can use this: Psicrystal Containment [PSIONIC] Your psicrystal has advanced enough that it can hold a psionic focus that you store within it. Prerequisites: Psicrystal Affinity, manifester level 3rd. Benefit: You can spend a full-round action attempting to psionically focus your psicrystal. At any time when you need to expend your psionic focus, you can expend your psicrystal’s psionic focus instead, as long as the crystal is within 5 feet of you. Psionically focusing your psicrystal works just like focusing yourself. The psicrystal cannot focus itself - only the owner can spend the time to focus the crystal.You expend your focus on the first Metapsionic feat and for the second one, since you can't expend focus again, you can instead use your psicrystal's focus. Conclusion: Metapsionic feats on powers in Power Stones is possible. Using multiple feats on one power is also possible. (At least that is my belief, might be debatable) KerlanRayne
kedi 10-01-04, 05:31 AM	@Kedi - What happened with the Tacitus Fight? Is it going to be run? Should I set the character as ready for a new week? I would have had a different charater fight if I knew nothing would have been run...I can still run the fight, fine by me. Send me the tactics, set your cahr ready. I'll PM Boldrift...
Caterane 10-01-04, 11:10 AM	@Kedi - What happened with the Tacitus Fight? Is it going to be run? Should I set the character as ready for a new week? I would have had a different charater fight if I knew nothing would have been run... He didn´t receive tactics from you. Did you send them?
Magagumo 10-01-04, 02:07 PM	@Kerlan Thanks for the quote searching, boyo, I haven't had time this week (but almost finsihed with all my projects :glee: ). Hmm, I think I will agree with you (though still not sure about the Psicrystal Containment *shrug*.) I forgot one important thing- caster level checks ;) These are the lovely balancing points on power stones that I strangely forgot. And, of course, one cannot increase the ML of a tattoo, so nothing but Enlarge can be used (which is rather useless), and dojres and psicrowns get v. expensive as one augments the powers. So I think, yea, it all does work out in the end. Of course, now Ban'zanfial's Power Stones are all getting Enlarge for free :devil:. I'll fix Crest up to 6th lvl soon enough. Oh, if I may ask the collective group here a question re: Planar Binding? In my 16th lvl Malign campaign, the sorceror/alienist cohort (14th caster) with a Charisma of 24 is thinking of using Planar Binding to establish a barracks of usable guardinals for the party to use. The plan was for her to use Magic Circle & Dimensional Anchor to lock the summoned guardinal in place. She would do this several times so as to have approx. 8 leonals/avorals bound let's say. Then, each day, as the party travels, she would teleport from their current location back to this home place of operations, force a Charisma check (+7 on her side) against each of the guardinals until one is forced to accompany her for free into a very dangerous area (+6 on its check), then teleport the two of them back. The player running the cohort questions if there should be a level-based cap on how many outsiders/elementals he can be holding fast, but I am wondering if there is something I'm missing that should prevent this madness. For my part, I have considered the fact that the CG sorceror should not be holding multiple good outsiders captive at one time, but I wanted to query the bright minds here on the matter before I start trying to work out a complex system for coping (i.e. allowing it with restraint) with this tactic. One last note- it is considered a good-aligned spell when she binds a good creature... strange, ne?
Zerone 10-01-04, 08:25 PM	Does the Red Wizard's 'Spell Power' ability effect all spells, or just Specialist spells? Spell Power: At 2nd level, a RW gains a bonus that increases his effective caster level for determining level-dependant spell variables and for caster level checks. The bonus starts at +1 and increases... This ability stacks with other spell power benefits that effect spells from the RW's specialist school.
Sindorin 10-02-04, 01:01 AM	Spell Power is a permanent increase to his caster level for level-dependent spells. To answer your question, it affects every spell he casts as long as it has level dependency (for example, spell duration, die amount, etc.)
LLMadCow 10-02-04, 03:33 AM	He didn´t receive tactics from you. Did you send them? Do I need to PM them? I have sent them twice.
WizO_Shadow 10-02-04, 11:12 AM	ok, before I pitlord my fight I have a few questions. Do they get 10 rounds or any amount of time for prebuffs? Shadow
Zerone 10-02-04, 11:26 AM	Attn: Shadow: They have any amount of time for buffs, but the effects must last for at least 16 hours. Here is the link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2700272&postcount=6).
Beldin 10-02-04, 11:27 AM	from the COCO character-guide Buffs: You may enter the arena with effects running that have a duration of 16 hours or more, which we call Pre-Buffs.´ Gladiators have an unlimited ammount of time to cast these pre-buffs out of the arena. The duration of these spells is the only limit(16 hours).
Pittbull 10-02-04, 11:35 AM	from the COCO character-guide ´ Gladiators have an unlimited ammount of time to cast these pre-buffs out of the arena. The duration of these spells is the only limit(16 hours). Are the slots used, or can you cast the spell (duration > 16 h), sleep and memo the spells for the fight? Edit: I two other questions: 1. What's the weight of an small mithril-shirt, under the reduce-spell? Is the original weight divided by two or eight? 2. Can you use teleport or dimension-door to transport a creature without joining him?
Zerone 10-02-04, 12:23 PM	Does the Red Wizard's 'Spell Power' ability effect all spells, or just Specialist spells? Spell Power: At 2nd level, a RW gains a bonus that increases his effective caster level for determining level-dependant spell variables and for caster level checks. The bonus starts at +1 and increases... This ability stacks with other spell power benefits that effect spells from the RW's specialist school. Spell Power is a permanent increase to his caster level for level-dependent spells. To answer your question, it affects every spell he casts as long as it has level dependency (for example, spell duration, die amount, etc.) More discussion is needed by everyone, I think. I am uncertain as to whether it does or not. I know that Red Wizard (RW) received a massive overhaul from FR Handbook to the DMG, but the FR Spell Power only applied to Specialist School spells... This makes more sense, as it is an ability that comes from Specialization, similar to Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization. They Specialize and do not get the bonuses to all weapons, but just the one... *•. Zerone Attn. Pitbull: You may sleep, as there is enough time for 8 hours (Human) and then re-memorize... :D Also, It is hard to see your CoCo Signature...
Druid Roxors 10-02-04, 12:40 PM	More discussion is needed by everyone, I think. I am uncertain as to whether it does or not. I know that Red Wizard (RW) received a massive overhaul from FR Handbook to the DMG, but the FR Spell Power only applied to Specialist School spells... This makes more sense, as it is an ability that comes from Specialization, similar to Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization. They Specialize and do not get the bonuses to all weapons, but just the one...Yes, In fact, if you see the description for the ability. When it talks about when it does stack with other similar abilities it describes it as stacking with other abilities that modify your specialist school's spells. I believe there was an omission there. Attn. Pitbull: You may sleep, as there is enough time for 8 hours (Human) and then re-memorize... :D Also, It is hard to see your CoCo Signature...Preparing spells IS a 16 hour prebuff... (actually it is a permanent prebuff). It must be done before spells. You cannot get your slots back when you prebuff yourself. Except with spells of Permanent or Instantaneous durations.
Zerone 10-02-04, 12:50 PM	Preparing spells IS a 16 hour prebuff... (actually it is a permanent prebuff). It must be done before spells. You cannot get your slots back when you prebuff yourself. Wow! 2 questions. Where is this information so I can read about it, and why does it take 16 hours to Prepare spells?
Ashenai 10-02-04, 12:52 PM	Hi everyone! I'm back, finally, with a (hopefully) permanent and dependable Internet connection. I see that a lot of things have happened since I was gone; I'll try to get back up to speed ASAP. I'll be pitlording (and activating my gladiators) from Wednesday. Edit: I've also added my votes and feedback to all issues in the Council.
Pittbull 10-02-04, 01:00 PM	@Ash: Nice to have you back again! @Zerone: Sig is better now! :D
Ashenai 10-02-04, 01:12 PM	Zerone: preparing spells does not take 16 hours. It counts as a permanent prebuff. The reason you cannot memorize after casting 16 hour prebuffs is not in the Core Rules; it is simply an Arena rule, included for balance. The theory is that your character shouldn't know exactly when he's going to fight, so he's only going to have a spell on him in advance if he can put it up pretty much every day anyway. (This is kind of contradicted by the fact that we allow prebuffs with expensive material components, but oh well.) You can memorize spells after casting Permanent, Instantaneous, or Until Discharged prebuffs, like DR said. You cannot, however, memorize spells after any other kind of prebuff, even if it lasts a day/level, or some other really long time.
Druid Roxors 10-02-04, 01:23 PM	Great to see you back Ashenai! Yeah, he did a better job explaining it :P
WizO_Shadow 10-02-04, 01:30 PM	uh... off the top of my head on 2. teleport must go with creature dimension door -no- personal only except in cases of familiar that can take personal spells. Just finished Aku/Peter battle. check violations thread and fight for postings in a couple hours. Many thanks to Hubby (my normal DM) and best friend for helping with this battle. Also, since I'm not good at map coordinates, I took pictures of movement/placings. Shadow Shadowyness.
Ashenai 10-02-04, 01:38 PM	From the description of Dimension Door: "You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you." Both Teleport and Dimension Door can be used to bring other creatures along. Neither can be used to transport creatures without transporting you as well.
barrel_master 10-02-04, 02:40 PM	uh... off the top of my head on 2. teleport must go with creature dimension door -no- personal only except in cases of familiar that can take personal spells. Just finished Aku/Peter battle. check violations thread and fight for postings in a couple hours. Many thanks to Hubby (my normal DM) and best friend for helping with this battle. Also, since I'm not good at map coordinates, I took pictures of movement/placings. Shadow Shadowyness. That was quick.
Druid Roxors 10-02-04, 05:24 PM	The fight Angosh Vs Zedarak has been Posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4525013&postcount=972). Please direct any and all comments to this week's Comments and Concerns (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=315346) thread.
Caterane 10-03-04, 07:23 PM	Evram the Soulless vs Tair Malek (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4531841&posted=1#post4531841) is up.
Zerone 10-03-04, 10:26 PM	If a Huge Air Elemental uses a Huge Greatsword, it's attack would be +8 (12 base, -4 for non-proficiency). Do they get multiple attacks for the +12 base when Full attack? Do they get to use Weapon Finnesse if the Weapon was a Huge Rapier? Any help is greatly appreciated, and this is needed ASAP. as I am running the fight now... Thanks!!! :D *•. Zerone
Ashenai 10-03-04, 10:55 PM	If a Huge Air Elemental uses a Huge Greatsword, it's attack would be +8 (12 base, -4 for non-proficiency).I'm not convinced that elementals can wield weapons. But assuming they can (I can find nothing either pro or con), they'd also get a -2 size penalty and a +4 strength bonus. So +10 in all. Do they get multiple attacks for the +12 base when Full attack?Yes. Their full attack would be +10/+5/+0. Do they get to use Weapon Finnesse if the Weapon was a Huge Rapier?Certainly (assuming, again, that they can use weapons). This would make their full attack +15/+10/+5.
Zerone 10-03-04, 11:01 PM	I'm not convinced that elementals can wield weapons. But assuming they can (I can find nothing either pro or con), they'd also get a -2 size penalty and a +4 strength bonus. So +10 in all. Yes. Their full attack would be +10/+5/+0. Certainly (assuming, again, that they can use weapons). This would make their full attack +15/+10/+5. But doesn't Finesse Just target a specific weapon? EDIT: That was 3.0 rules... Hehehe :rolleyes: :D
Ashenai 10-03-04, 11:04 PM	Edit: nothing to see here, move along. :D
TaggIIV 10-03-04, 11:30 PM	Hi, everyone Posted (well, more just um edited in) a new character. If anyone would look it over and make sure I didnt mess anything up, I'd appreciate it. Character (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3239254&postcount=128) I'll get to writing up some flavorness sometime tomorrow, have to be off at the moment, though.
Ashenai 10-03-04, 11:41 PM	Really nice character sheet! I only found two problems, one nitpicky, one not. 1) Please list the weight carried somewhere on your sheet, and your encumbrance. It's 62.4 lbs, medium load. 2) You may only buy wands with 50 charges, no more, no less.
TaggIIV 10-03-04, 11:50 PM	Thanks, and fixed.
Ashenai 10-04-04, 12:05 AM	And now that I've charged up my Nitpick bar... I can unleash my HYPER FINISHING LEVEL 3 ULTIMATE OMEGA NITPICK MOVE! Bwahahahahaaa! *cough* Anyway. With the two extra potions of CLW, your encumbrance is now 62.6, not 62.4. :D
WizO_Shadow 10-04-04, 12:44 AM	Alrighty, the fight is really up now, I promise!! Aku vs. Peter (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4532184#post4532184) I would've liked the fight to have this happen: http://members.cox.net/wyluli/37.JPG Shadow
WizO_Shadow 10-04-04, 11:12 AM	Ok. I've got a lot of work to catch up on today. Please be patient with me. Shadow
Sindorin 10-04-04, 01:42 PM	A quick question for anyone who might know... Where did the Organization Threads go? I ask this as I was looking to update the Brotherhood Thread and found it is no longer present... I take it we are just playing the organizations on the roleplay thread? i asked this a while back, could someone clarify this for me?
kedi 10-04-04, 01:50 PM	OMG, TaggIIV is playing a good, worse, *lawful good* PC? :eek: :P Really, welcome back. (: I know that I posted the fight will be up in a few hours aproximately 3 days ago, lol, yea but I had to work, now most of the match is done, just need to mod last rounds and post it here.
Jindl 10-04-04, 02:02 PM	i asked this a while back, could someone clarify this for me? Sure! The default setting on the board is to only display threads from the last month. Older threads (which may be on pages 2, 3, 4, etc) can be displayed if you'll go down to the fields at the bottom right of your screen (when looking at the board) and select to show threads from the beginning. Then look on pages 2 and 3 and you should see all of your organization threads. Just to make it easy, here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=229519) is a link to the Brotherhood. -Jindl
Sindorin 10-04-04, 02:46 PM	Ah, thank you very very much, that helps a ton.
barrel_master 10-04-04, 03:01 PM	Why don't we have a system with several mini leauges? What do you mean, you ask? Something like this... We have leauges (say for example from 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 then 16-20) and at each of these leauges we can start a character from the lowest level (in 1-5 you can start at 1, at 6-10 you can start at 6). What does it ruin... - the culture of nurturing a character from 1 to 20. This will take from the development of some characters. - Characters will become even MORE annonymous. - People won't save... they'll use all their cash to succede in the 'leauge' they're in. - This is the worst one... players who have suffered through crappy low levels waiting to build up their char will... effectively... have all their work sort of trampled on. What will it bring... - Options, we can still move a character from 1-20. All we have to do is rebuild them ever 5 levels. - Modualarity (sp?). All we have to do is keep track of a character's finances from the past 5 lvls at most. - Some 'spread out ness'. I've noticed that characters have bunched up at times (esp. at higher levels) and that at other levels are a complete wasteland (7-11). Having a point where every char can enter should aleviate this problem. OF course you can just say no... or we can talk about it... either way...
Ashenai 10-04-04, 03:49 PM	My gut instinct is that disadvantages would outweigh the advantages. Having a level 15 character in the Arena should be an accomplishment to be proud of. Everyone can get there eventually, but it shows that you've stuck with the CoCo and suffered through (probably) dozens of fights. Like I said, that's just my first impression, though. I'm convincable.
Sindorin 10-04-04, 04:08 PM	You're right about the 'wasteland' part... the middle of the roster is pretty much a void, except having maybe one fighter at middle levels. It will even out within a few weeks, though. I doubt having different leagues at different levels is the way to solve the problem - if you let people start at a higher level, they are going to start at a higher level... the middles would still be a void.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 10-05-04, 08:01 AM	As notice; I am unable act as pitlord still in even thsi week. Because my ent acces is still questionable, I ask that I do not receive figths till I will inform when I am able to do so again (do not worry, this probally does not go over a month and even worst case I am not able to work as pitlrod a month and half) :P.
Sindorin 10-05-04, 09:13 AM	Dear all, A few things in RL have recently come to my attention. These are things that are far beyond my control, but in some sense are completely my fault. I must step down from pitlording, but I will probably in a roundabout way be able to keep an active character, and I will participate in the Banewarrens when it gets going again. I just won't have a reliable internet source or stupid amounts of time to read posts and such. Thanks, and I hope everything keeps going well. ~Sindorin
Zerone 10-05-04, 10:31 AM	Attn. Sindorin: Hope you can make a return someday! Say a character has the Craft Magic Arms and Weapons and wants to craft a Frost Brand. What is with the 'Price: 54,475 gp; Cost 27,375.1 gp + 2,179 xp'? Does that mean that you pay 0.7 x 54,475 or 0.7 x (27,375.1 + [2,179 x 5]) or is that the same thing? They are close, but not exact...
Jindl 10-05-04, 10:43 AM	Say a character has the Craft Magic Arms and Weapons and wants to craft a Frost Brand. What is with the 'Price: 54,475 gp; Cost 27,375.1 gp + 2,179 xp'? Does that mean that you pay 0.7 x 54,475 or 0.7 x (27,375.1 + [2,179 x 5]) or is that the same thing? They are close, but not exact... I'm not sure what's up with the DMG numbers. However, for the CoCo, first acquire a mw greatsword (either buy it or make it using the craft skill) and then enchant it. The cost to enchant it will be 0.7x 54,475 gp, assuming you have the necessary feat and spell prerequisites. This is a general rule that applies to all magic weapons, armor, items, etc. -Jindl
Zerone 10-05-04, 10:53 AM	Thanks. That is what I figured. On to another question... Can a Red Wizard give up Divination as their 3rd school for Enhanced Specialization? Also, I had asked if the RW Spell Power ability only effects the Specialized school, and I believe that there were only 2 replies (both said special only)? Does this mean that everyone agrees or dissagrees? Edit: Can you make Studed Leather Mithral Armor? What happens if you cast Locate Object and they have Mirror Image up?
Zerone 10-05-04, 11:27 AM	Mounts vs. Companions...? Mounts should act on your turn, it only makes sense. But if you are not mounted, why do they not get an Init of their own? Would there be a difference between Int and Non-Int (Int<3) beings?
Kaigan 10-05-04, 11:48 AM	@Shadow, pitlords, cat, or whoever is doing pairings. I have both my characters ready, Eiletha and Enilias. I, however don't want any fights this week, so I'll use my last credit. Thanks. Sorry, I would take a fight, but i have midterms, so i'll be very busy. Thanks for your time. Kaigan
Druid Roxors 10-05-04, 12:02 PM	@Shadow, pitlords, cat, or whoever is doing pairings. I have both my characters ready, Eiletha and Enilias. I, however don't want any fights this week, so I'll use my last credit. Thanks. Sorry, I would take a fight, but i have midterms, so i'll be very busy. Thanks for your time. Kaigan Remember to PM the pitlords account or Shadow to ensure it will be heard.
Caterane 10-05-04, 12:17 PM	As notice; I am unable act as pitlord still in even thsi week. Because my ent acces is still questionable, I ask that I do not receive figths till I will inform when I am able to do so again (do not worry, this probally does not go over a month and even worst case I am not able to work as pitlrod a month and half) :P. Same for this one
Sindorin 10-05-04, 03:27 PM	Thanks. That is what I figured. On to another question... Can a Red Wizard give up Divination as their 3rd school for Enhanced Specialization? Also, I had asked if the RW Spell Power ability only effects the Specialized school, and I believe that there were only 2 replies (both said special only)? Does this mean that everyone agrees or dissagrees? Edit: Can you make Studed Leather Mithral Armor? What happens if you cast Locate Object and they have Mirror Image up? -You cannot give up divination in 3.5 (you could in 3.0 under certain conditions) -Spell power affects all of your level dependent spell variables...
barrel_master 10-05-04, 03:29 PM	I'd argue that the biggest problem is with the lack of characters in the arena. Newcomers may not want to create a low level character but also do not want to wait 3 months to have a 12th level characters. Having an entry system where people can enter at different levels would make it easier to break in. Unfortunately I just thought about a huge dissadvantage about the system... ECL characters would be less desireable.
WizO_Shadow 10-05-04, 03:36 PM	As I stated in the fight of the week thread, I'll be finishing the fight here momentarily. I needed to hear from Jindl what he disagreed about the battle with and we'll be continuing on from the point in round 6. It'll be completed shortly. Is everyone else's fights in? Shadow
Pittbull 10-05-04, 04:31 PM	Everybody is invited to read the story:"Angosh meets Mini-Me!" (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4545010&postcount=510) . Sorry for my bad English! @Cat and Druid: ;)
Caterane 10-05-04, 05:51 PM	As I stated in the fight of the week thread, I'll be finishing the fight here momentarily. I needed to hear from Jindl what he disagreed about the battle with and we'll be continuing on from the point in round 6. It'll be completed shortly. Is everyone else's fights in? Shadow If Jindl disagrees with the outcome of the fight he should post his concerns on the Fights of the week thread! This is the normal procedure, and we all want to hear what Mr. Jindl thinks has been done incorrectly.
MotherBast 10-05-04, 08:07 PM	Hello all. I've been away for a few weeks now. Real life I'm afraid has cought me up. Too much to go into now, but I'm afraid the end result is that I'll be taking an extended leave from the CoCo. 2 months at least, probably longer. For part of that time I'll be out of the country, (I'll be in Rome, Italy, if anyone is intrested), and for the other part I'll be trying to keep myslef feed after blowing my bankroll in Italy. I won't be returning home untill after the new year, and even then I will have much to catch up on as far as work/bills/life is concerned, and probably wont have much time for the D&D. In truth, I've known this was comming for a while, since I retired my level 14s, but I was hopeing I would still be able to have limited partisapation in the CoCo. I'm afraid I overestamated my abilitys to manage my time. I put off my leaving for as long as I could, becasue the CoCo was already experiencing a rash of leavings and stepping downs. I wish I could stay a little longer, becasue from what I have read today, it seems the CoCo is trying hard to recover from its wounds, and I would love to help, but duty and desire lay elsewhere for me at the moment I'm afraid. Good luck to everyone who remains here in the CoCo, and to the new guys who have joined in the last 2 weeks. I hope you all have as much fun here, and learn as much as I have. I'll miss you all.... even CAT I think, our rivalry if nothing else. As an Elder, I'm sorry to leave my post vacent, but I'm afraid I'll have no choice but to surrender it. I can't be assured of checking the boards with any regularity at all, and so I would probably hold up important decisions. With Jindl and Cat now on the councel, I belive my absence will not be felt so profoundly though, so it is "safe" for me to give up my place now. I'm sorry to have to surrender this duty unfinished, but I have had no time to review the current issues under debate, and I fear making my last acts here be uninformed votes that could sway an outcome. I will not vote on any current issues, and as of now step down from the councel of elders. Goodbye, CoCo. I have no fear that you will be here, and strong, when I return.
Druid Roxors 10-05-04, 10:55 PM	@ Motherbast: I am sorry to hear that you are taking an extended leave. I fear the day that I, too, might have to leave the CoCo for a time. I wish you good luck and hope that you are back soon. :)
Magagumo 10-05-04, 11:06 PM	Aye, you've been a cool head, MB, and we can always use plenty of those. We'll do our damnedest to keep this place shipshape for your return ;) Have fun in Italy (hope to be over there this summer for a time) and I hope your goals for going there work out well for you (have fun with your lady friend :)). Take care of yourself.
LLMadCow 10-05-04, 11:25 PM	HELP Does anyone know where I can get some cheap, if not free, anti-spyware and anti-adware software? Twice in 2 weeks I have had to reformat my PC as a result of too many crazy programs violating my computer. I have been to the verge of tears. :( Anyway, my fight was finally posted. WizO - I need to hold back on fights for now. I ned either a new PC or a more stable one, at the minimum...
Zerone 10-05-04, 11:33 PM	Ad-aware 6 will help with ad-ware and other things... It's great and it's free. Zerone
Druid Roxors 10-06-04, 12:20 AM	HELP Does anyone know where I can get some cheap, if not free, anti-spyware and anti-adware software? Twice in 2 weeks I have had to reformat my PC as a result of too many crazy programs violating my computer. I have been to the verge of tears. :( Anyway, my fight was finally posted. WizO - I need to hold back on fights for now. I ned either a new PC or a more stable one, at the minimum... If you use MSN messenger I can "possess" you computer and help you clean it out. It cannot be THAT bad.
SnarkHunter 10-06-04, 12:31 AM	Short Answer: Adaware from Lavasoft and Spybot Search and Destroy will take out the most egregious violaters of your computative privacy. Long answer: Spyware is insidious and well designed to be ignored by the programs above. The only way to be totally sure you've gotten rid of it is coming through your current processes, checking their validity as far as where they came from, and manualy removing the software with various tools you will find in your quest to figure what the heck 3rd parties have installed on your system. I just spent about an hour helping a young woman try to get her system under control but I think I've only scratched the surface.
Druid Roxors 10-06-04, 12:44 AM	Something that has worked very, very good for me is to deactivate the signed active-x download. Even if its from a trusted company (the gator corporation :rolleyes: ) I dont want my brothers to click yes because a stupid window came up and they can't check out the movie-listings..
WizO_Shadow 10-06-04, 09:08 AM	attn: everyone Please send all CoCo related material back to the PitLords account. I know this is kind of confusing but I'm having to keep track of 30+ PM's a day and it's just easier if all the CoCo stuff was organized into one file/account. I don't want any PMs lost!!!! I'm sorry for any confusion that this may have! Shadow
barrel_master 10-06-04, 04:45 PM	@Mag... did you have your heart set on activating bruno? I was actually thinking about sitting out this week.
Caterane 10-06-04, 04:50 PM	Just wanted to say that Druid and I agreed to post our respective spell lists 1 min before the deadline. However, since Druid's watch (1.49 $) is not very accurate, we both edited 2 min after the deadline. No big deal since we challenged each other anyway
Magagumo 10-06-04, 04:52 PM	Nah, I'm going home for the weekend so I'm keeping ti to the easier characters (Crest & Ban) and only running 0-1fights. Maybe next week, barrel?
Druid Roxors 10-06-04, 04:56 PM	Just wanted to say that Druid and I agreed to post our respective spell lists 1 min before the deadline. However, since Druid's watch (1.49 $) is not very accurate, we both edited 2 min after the deadline. No big deal since we challenged each other anyway HEY!! It was you who needed more time!! I was ready but then you started screaming about time so I offered an extension. Its your fault :P Edit: My watch is not $1.49! :headexplo
Pitlords 10-06-04, 05:55 PM	Pairings done Pitlords may begin running fights on saturday without tactics Fights due monday Late penalties on tuesday Credit changes: +1: Snark, Jindl, Zerone, Druid Roxors
Jindl 10-06-04, 05:58 PM	@Kaigan - Well, I see that Enilias was ready for this week, but is alone at that level. Aku had the similar misfortune. I would be willing to make Rhoar ready, if you want to have a match between him and Enilias. If you agree, I would suggest we set a new editing deadline (like Friday at 9 PM GMT), so that we have equal opportunity to make adjustments with the knoweldge of who our opponent is (and Rhoar has to be adjusted, becuase he has not yet been updated since his last fight). What do you think? -Jindl
Kaigan 10-06-04, 06:12 PM	yeah go for it jindl thanks
TaggIIV 10-06-04, 06:56 PM	Character (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3239254&postcount=128) *coughs* ;)
Bud Green 10-07-04, 01:50 AM	Hi. Popping in with a question for you arena combat junkies. I'm doing a similar thing to the CC with PCs IRL, except the PCs are fighting monsters. PCs fight individually against a random foe or small group of foes of appropriate CR. Each fight a PC wins nets him a level and gold, according to table 5-1 in the DMG. PC can then buy new stuff for the next fight. PC gets 2 rounds to buff before the fight. All PCs start at level 3, can use only core material, and have a 40 point buy for stats and average (rnd up) HP. Here's what I'm finding after a dozen or so fights. Potions rule the day. Seriously. Pots of mage armor and barkskin increase AC of an unarmored character by 9. That's huge. No reason to buy bracers for awhile. It's way cheaper to buy pots of invis than a ring. Same with other rings. Other pots can be just as huge in this format. Even with the 2 round rule pots alone are winning the fights. Should I disallow pots altogether? What about scrolls? So far, all the characters are level 7 or below. We've only played this twice. I got the idea from here and I know you guys are the experts on this stuff so here I am for advice on how to balance things, and any other pitfalls you foresee with this system.
SnarkHunter 10-07-04, 02:01 AM	See I can only assume you haven't got a dispel monkey knocking those potions out as soon as there's a decent number of them. The low caster level is what kills em most times around here.
Ashenai 10-07-04, 02:39 AM	There's a DMG rule for these sorts of situations that, in all honesty, I think we should be using, but aren't (it was discussed in the early days of the Arena): DMG, page 199: If you're playing a one-shot random dungeon, one-shot items cost 5 times their normal price, and charged items have 1/5 as many charges. In a one-shot adventure, in which it doesn't matter whether you use up your items, one-use and charged items are a lot better than they are in a regular campaign. While the CoCo (and your variant) isn't exactly a one-shot random dungeon, they're similar in that they have a lot fewer encounters than a campaign would have, and one-shot items are a lot better. For instance, it's entirely reasonable to expect that in the CoCo, a wand with 50 charges will last through your character's entire career. It's currently kind of silly. I've seen Psions who didn't buy Inertial Armor, because, well, hey! They can just drink a Potion of Mage Armor at the start of every battle for 50 gp! Also, I think everyone sees the problem with level 2 spellcasters using CL 9 scrolls. :mad: Hm... maybe this matter should be revisited in the Council?
Bud Green 10-07-04, 02:43 AM	<QUOTE>"See I can only assume you haven't got a dispel monkey knocking those potions out as soon as there's a decent number of them. The low caster level is what kills em most times around here."</QUOTE> Yeah but this is PvM with the monsters rolled randomly. Most stuff that comes up can't dispel. I plan on using the 'typical' spell selection shown in the MM to save time, since monsters are rolled up on the fly. Even an appropriate level monster caster won't necessarily have dispel. As the characters advance in level the percentage of monsters that will have dispel will increase, but it still won't be high enough to mitigate the potion abuse. I'm curious about the 16 hour mark used here for pre-buffs. Why 16 hours? EDIT - Or perhaps I successfully Dodged your point. Are you saying I should have an unassailable monkey running around dispelling at random? LOL :D hmmm... Actually it's not half bad... Not sure about the mechanics though.
Zerone 10-07-04, 03:38 AM	It's currently kind of silly. I've seen Psions who didn't buy Inertial Armor, because, well, hey! They can just drink a Potion of Mage Armor at the start of every battle for 50 gp! Also, I think everyone sees the problem with level 2 spellcasters using CL 9 scrolls. :mad: Hm... maybe this matter should be revisited in the Council? We could limit the scrolls to a certain level above your caster level, perhaps 1 or 2 levels above your CL, or just equal to your CL. This way low level fights will not be unfair just because a few classes can raise their effective level for just a few gold pieces... Nothing like losing Init. and being hit with an Evard's turn 1 in a 3rd level fight, ending the battle before you take a single turn... At the highest levels this is ok, because you have the means to counter such tactics, but at 3rd level - boy, that was fun. :rolleyes: Zerone
Bud Green 10-07-04, 04:31 AM	There's a DMG rule for these sorts of situations that, in all honesty, I think we should be using, but aren't (it was discussed in the early days of the Arena): DMG, page 199: Nice find. That rule helps, but it's not enough to solve the problem, at least for one-shot items. Different characters will have different monetary needs, which makes it impossible to keep money tightly balanced. A monk/mage doesn't need to invest in expensive magical weapons and armor, and would still have plenty of money to abuse pots, even at x5 cost. There needs to be some artificial restriction on one-shots. Or the dispelling monkey.
Ashenai 10-07-04, 05:11 AM	Nice find. That rule helps, but it's not enough to solve the problem, at least for one-shot items. Different characters will have different monetary needs, which makes it impossible to keep money tightly balanced. I mostly disagree. D&D is balanced so all classes are always in desperate need of money. For different things, of course. A monk/mage doesn't need to invest in expensive magical weapons and armor Bracers of Armor? Amulet of Natural armor? Rings of Protection? All of these cost more than equivalent armor, and the Monk needs them, oh yes he does. and would still have plenty of money to abuse pots, even at x5 cost. I think it would be pretty well balanced in that case. In the Arena (either one), a Potion of Mage Armor is ridiculously cheap for 50 gp. For 250 gp, it'd still be plenty usable, but you'd have to think about whether you want to blow it on a given battle or not. There needs to be some artificial restriction on one-shots. Or the dispelling monkey. I think both of these are bad ideas (and for the record, Snark didn't mean an actual monkey :)). They're also in no way Core, while the 5x cost is. This is my main issue with Zerone's proposal as well; it's not Core, no way, no how. The 5x cost is Core; it's right there in the DMG. Finally, the 5x cost solution is a lot more elegant; you can use whatever scroll you want... but you're gonna have to pay for it. With 5x cost, a level 2 character can afford (at best) a spell level 2, CL 4 scroll, or a spell level 1, CL 8 scroll. and that takes all of his/her money. Oh look! Balance! Or does anyone wanna take a look at Ildechai? He's not gonna run out of spells, no he's not, because he could (and did) buy a metric TON of scrolls on a whim! Same with other mages. Hideous Laughter is save-or-die most of the time (even at CL 3), and it costs 105 gp to scribe! Absurd.
Bud Green 10-07-04, 08:18 AM	Ok, did a few comparisons, and I have to concede the 5x rule is pretty good when comparing potions to their equivalent permanent items. Potion costs have the x5 figured in. Amulet of Natch Armor +5 Cost 50K Pot of Barkskin +5 Cost 6K each x 18 battles = 108K Amulet is the better buy, hands down. Bracers +4 Cost 16K Pot of Mage Armor (provides +4) Cost 250 each x 18 battles = 4,500 No reason to ever buy +1 through +4 bracers. Due to the way potions are priced (by spell level and not utility), Mage Armor pots are underpriced. Ring of Invis Cost 20K Pot of Invis Cost 1500 each x 18 battles = 27K This ones about a toss-up, since you won't be able to afford the ring right away. By the time you can afford it, it may be just as cheap to fight out the rest of your battles using pots. Girdle of Giant Strength +4 Cost 16K Pot of Bulls Strength +4 Cost 1500 each x 18 battles = 27K Girdle is the better buy, unless you can't afford it until later, then it's the same situation as the ring. Scrolls are a different story. Scrolls cost half as much as the equivalent potions, tilting the balance back in favor of the one-shot items (scrolls). Can scrolls be purchased from the DMG in CoCo or do they have to be scribed?
Jindl 10-07-04, 08:52 AM	@Kaigan - Okay, I'll get Rhoar ready (and forward a messsage to Shadow). Our PC's can be edited until 9 PM GMT on Friday. Cool? @All - Kaigan and I have set up a match between Rhoar and Enilias this week. Would anyone like to volunteer to Pitlord that match? -Jindl
Ashenai 10-07-04, 08:57 AM	Nice analysis! A few comments. Amulet of Natch Armor +5 Cost 50K Pot of Barkskin +5 Cost 6K each x 18 battles = 108K Amulet is the better buy, hands down. If you want the plus armor for every battle, then yup. Also, using the Barkskin pots costs a valuable standard action... though they don't take up an amulet slot. Bracers +4 Cost 16K Pot of Mage Armor (provides +4) Cost 250 each x 18 battles = 4,500 No reason to ever buy +1 through +4 bracers. Due to the way potions are priced (by spell level and not utility), Mage Armor pots are underpriced. I agree wholeheartedly. On the other hand... firstly, using a Potion of Mage Armor, again, takes up a standard action, which can be very relevant. Secondly, the potion is a CL 1 effect, and is trivial to dispel. Thirdly, you wouldn't really want to use the bracer slot for anything else anyway (no other really useful bracers for most characters). Ring of Invis Cost 20K Pot of Invis Cost 1500 each x 18 battles = 27K This ones about a toss-up, since you won't be able to afford the ring right away. By the time you can afford it, it may be just as cheap to fight out the rest of your battles using pots. True... but one of the huge advantages of the ring as opposed to the potion is that with the ring, you can attack then go invisible again and again. Girdle of Giant Strength +4 Cost 16K Pot of Bulls Strength +4 Cost 1500 each x 18 battles = 27K Girdle is the better buy, unless you can't afford it until later, then it's the same situation as the ring. The advantages and disadvantages are exactly the same as in the Mage Armor potion / Bracers of Armor case. Scrolls are a different story. Scrolls cost half as much as the equivalent potions, tilting the balance back in favor of the one-shot items (scrolls). Can scrolls be purchased from the DMG in CoCo or do they have to be scribed? They can be purchased. On the other hand, scrolls have a limitation that potions don't have (the spell has to be on your spell list), and several drawbacks (you can't use a scroll while blind or in darkness, and it's easy to get interrupted when casting from a scroll). So it's mostly OK, I think.
Ashenai 10-07-04, 08:59 AM	@Jindl: Sure, I can do it. I'll have a lot of time this weekend, and my really difficult fight (Harvy vs. Cor) looks like it's going to be run real-time, which makes it a lot easier.
Jindl 10-07-04, 09:10 AM	I think we need some definitions when talking about one shots and charged itmes. I suggest the following definitions: *I would define one shots as items that are destroyed after a single use. This would include: arrows of slaying, sleep arrows, screaming bolts, javelins of lightning, scrolls, potions, incense, candles, feather tokens, manuals, tomes, power stones, crystal shards, and perhaps a few other items. *Charged items are items which are destroyed after a specified number of uses. This would include wands, staves, dorjes, psicrowns, ring of the ram, ring of wishes, gem of brightness, and perhaps a few other items. Ammunition which is bought as a stack (like 50x +1 flaming arrows), should be considered a Charged item, because when the stack runs out of arrows, it is destroyed. *Permanent magic items would be items which are not destoyed after a specified number of uses. This includes most of the magic items not listed above. Items whose uses are refreshed after a set amount of time (figurines, cubes, ring of shooting stars, etc) are Permanent magic items, because they are not destroyed after a specified number of uses. I agree with Ashenai that we should probably use the DMG suggestion for all one shots and charged items in the CoCo. There was a time when I thought differently, but time has changed my mind on this issue. I have been considering running an ironman tournament (since all previous attempts never reached completion). During that tournament, I was going to test the DMG suggestion. @Bud - When doing your comparisons, keep in mind that when a permanent magic item is dispelled, it starts working again in only 1d4 rounds. When an effect from a one shot is dispelled, it is gone forever. In addition to this vulnerability to dispelling, one shots have another disadvantage. Most of them require an action to use. For example, drinking that potion: mage armor cost the PC a move action to draw it and a standard action to drink it. If the PC was wearing bracers of armor, they would have been able to do other things during that round. We have learned in the CoCo that it is very important to budget your time in battle. Perhaps in your game, you should figure a way for the monsters to attack more quickly, limiting the time your PC's have to drink potions before actual combat breaks out. -Jindl
Caterane 10-07-04, 09:41 AM	http://www.1a-network.de/images/cgi-bin/gbs/smilies/freu.gif HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAG! http://www.1a-network.de/images/cgi-bin/gbs/smilies/freu.gif http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/birthday.gif http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/bang.gif http://www.1a-network.de/images/cgi-bin/gbs/smilies/chef.gif Ha! The birthday list isn`t fully ready yet but it works! Mag, I wish you the best for your future life, and may you win many many fights! http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/king.gif @all: Party at Mag tonight!! :D I still need the birthday dates from: Snark, Barrelmaster, Ethendril, Pittbull, Bedlin, Marketshare, Kaigan, KerlanRayne, and Kazzaroth.
Kaigan 10-07-04, 10:39 AM	Here, Cat birthday, october 26
Magagumo 10-07-04, 11:25 AM	*laughs* Thanks Cat- It's my 21st so I plan on celebrating with a few tasty drinks later this evening ;) I like the discussion re: charged items and one-shots. Question, do the charged items cost the same price for 10 chgs? or are we getting them at 1-5th the cost? As for the scrolls and the like, I only ask that we don't retroactivate this.. as that gets crazy. And thirdly, I also recommend that scrolls purchased to scribed spells not have their cost artifically raised by 5x- it's already very expensive at high lvls to get those spells, let's not make it impossible. But yea, I approve of all of this- it cuts out the "kill-switch" item tactic (If people need to adjust current stockpiles, I wouldn't disagree, but I believe a lot of people have massive stockpiles that would eb nightmarish to edit- myself included). But yea, I approve of this line of thought.
Ashenai 10-07-04, 11:43 AM	Happy birthday, dude. :) Question, do the charged items cost the same price for 10 chgs? or are we getting them at 1-5th the cost?They cost the same. A Wand of CLW would have 10 charges, and would cost 750 gp. As for the scrolls and the like, I only ask that we don't retroactivate this.. as that gets crazy.Well, I'd also not like to see people stocking up on 200 scrolls, picking them up while they're cheap. Here's how I suggest it should work: if this modification is accepted, it doesn't apply to items already used up (obviously). It should apply to items in a character's inventory, but all characters should get a one-time chance to return any one-shot items for a full refund instead of paying the extra 4x cost, if they want. Sound fair? I also recommend that scrolls purchased to scribed spells not have their cost artifically raised by 5x- it's already very expensive at high lvls to get those spells, let's not make it impossible. I completely agree. In a sense, scrolls bought for scribing aren't one-shot; they're a permanent addition to a character's spell book. Normal price for those scrolls. In fact, if any of the "caster-limiting" modifications are accepted, I'd like to revisit the old Council decision and see if we can't allow mages to scribe spells at the 50 gp/spell level cost mentioned in the PHB. I suspect that the reason they were barred from doing so by the last Council vote (which ended up 4-4, incidentally) was not because of Core issues... it was simply because people felt that mages were much too powerful anyway. I'm hoping that with the new rebalancing change (if one of them passes), mages will be balanced enough, and they can be given back their 50 gp per spell level scribing cost. This change, if passed, will, I hope, be retroactive, and mages who spent entire fortunes on scrolls for scribing will get the difference back.
Jindl 10-07-04, 11:44 AM	I like the discussion re: charged items and one-shots. Question, do the charged items cost the same price for 10 chgs? or are we getting them at 1-5th the cost? I think the DMG suggestion is that you only recieve 1/5th the number of charges for the listed price (rounded up). So a wand: cure light wounds would cost 750 gp and have 10 charges. And a stack of +1 flaming arrows would contain 10 arrows and cost 8350 gp. As for the scrolls and the like, I only ask that we don't retroactivate this.. as that gets crazy. And thirdly, I also recommend that scrolls purchased to scribed spells not have their cost artifically raised by 5x- it's already very expensive at high lvls to get those spells, let's not make it impossible. But yea, I approve of all of this- it cuts out the "kill-switch" item tactic (If people need to adjust current stockpiles, I wouldn't disagree, but I believe a lot of people have massive stockpiles that would eb nightmarish to edit- myself included). But yea, I approve of this line of thought. I would suggest a few exemptions on the 5x cost for one-shots. For example: manuals, tomes, scribed scrolls. These exemptions should be given because you never have to replenish your resources for these items (and uses). Once scribed, you never have to scribe that scroll again. Once read, you never have to buy/read that manual or tome again. This is, of course, the difference between using these one-shots and using others, like the potion: mage armor, the supply of which has to be replenished after each use. As for making it retroactive, I agree that is a daunting task. However, to be absolutely fair, it should be done. Newer characters do face older characters at higher levels. The newer characters should not be put at such a great financial disadvantage. -Jindl
Ashenai 10-07-04, 11:49 AM	I agree with also making manuals and tomes exempt. In short, any "one-shot" item that has a permanent effect should be exempt. I can only agree with making it retroactive in the sense that one-shot items characters still have should either be returned for a refund, or fully paid for. I don't think it's fair to suddenly deduct a couple thousand gold from a monk because he used a potion of Mage Armor in every fight. Under the old system, that was a perfectly reasonable tactic, and the player had no way of knowing that his character would be punished for it later.
Magagumo 10-07-04, 12:03 PM	I would agree with Ash on that- we have to accept that some gold was using differently- but msot of the higher lvl chars did not win by one-shots (I think most of us were incredibly conservative, with Brackin being the money pit...) I agree that inventories should be checked, and items refunded. And yea, I know Bruno and Aku would love a cheaper scribe cost ;) @Ash Quick question re: Moksha on Fights for you...
Druid Roxors 10-07-04, 12:12 PM	Just a second, did we just switch the conversation from Bud Green's arena to the CoCo? :rolleyes:
Druid Roxors 10-07-04, 12:17 PM	I would just like to mention that fighters typically buy boots of speed and cannot get flight without a potion of fly... Thats 750gp x 5 = 3,250 gp... Might as well retire those chars.. I believe that 5x cost is too high and that it will be difficult to balance young players (that know that 1 shot items are VERY expensive and wont use them as much) with old penalized players. (who spent a fortune on those items and should have gotten permanent items instead.) Note: Max Scroll CL proposals added to the council
Ashenai 10-07-04, 12:17 PM	If, by "just" you mean "17 posts back", then yes. :) EDIT: Boots of speed are not a one-shot item, and the 5x rules would not apply to them. Potions of Fly being more expensive is a valid concern, but Potions of Fly are not an acceptable long-term solution in any case (CL 5? Dispelled.) Fly needs to be nerfed, that's all. I've been championing a lowering of the roof to 45' for a long time now. That would, I think, be the most elegant solution. Can anyone tell me what positive reason there is for a 155' roof? Incidentally, mages will find it a lot more difficult to fly in every battle if we implement any of the "balancing" changes (some of the proposed solutions will inhibit them more than others, o'course.)
Zerone 10-07-04, 12:24 PM	Just wanted to repost this from above, and it has a few minor modifications... We could limit scrolls and potions to a certain level above a charactrer's ECL, perhaps 1 or 2 levels above your ECL, or just equal to your ECL. This way low level fights will not be unfair just because a few classes can raise their effective level for just a few gold pieces. If you have a higher Caster Level that ECL, that would be the determining factor in how high a spell/potion you could buy... Also, if we were to increase the cost of scrolls, it would not apply to the creation of magical items, as they would be considered permanent, correct?
Druid Roxors 10-07-04, 12:29 PM	If, by "just" you mean "17 posts back", then yes. :) EDIT: Boots of speed are not a one-shot item, and the 5x rules would not apply to them. Potions of Fly being more expensive is a valid concern, but Potions of Fly are not an acceptable long-term solution in any case (CL 5? Dispelled.)Perhaps my post was missunderstood. The point was that the fighters cannot waste the "Feet" slot with flight. They need that slot for boots of speed. (which, indeed, are permanent) the whole point was revolving around not being able to use boots of flying and fly potions being so absurdly costly Fly needs to be nerfed, that's all. I've been championing a lowering of the roof to 45' for a long time now. That would, I think, be the most elegant solution. Can anyone tell me what positive reason there is for a 155' roof?I cannot find a valid reason for this, a lower roof will indeed benefit the melee character who is troubled by mages. Id say a 50' roof is appropriate. If enough people side by it, it will be added to the Council.
Zerone 10-07-04, 12:44 PM	I cannot find a valid reason for this, a lower roof will indeed benefit the melee character who is troubled by mages. Id say a 50' roof is appropriate. If enough people side by it, it will be added to the Council. I think that this takes away from the 'reality' of the arena. There are many tactics to counter flight. I think that we are moving in 2 directions here, between this discussion and the 'multiple fights per day'. If we are to have multiple fights in a day, and have to win more than 1 fight to advance, especially if you had to win multiple fights in 1 day to advance, then increasing the cost of magical items is uterly pointless, as it would be a more 'real' campaign setting, and then the costs are just fine the way they are, as characters must ration their resources to win multiple fights in 1 day before they receive more money... So, a fighter who wants to fly needs at least 2 potions of fly, because he has to win at least 2 battles to advance, and the spellcasters must not blow their daily spell alotment for the same reasons... If we raised the prices of things in this new environment, it would not work... We need to focus these discussions under the same topic, as they are directly related. Zerone
Ashenai 10-07-04, 12:56 PM	I think that this takes away from the 'reality' of the arena. There are many tactics to counter flight. For many builds, there are (as far as I know) no effective tactics to counter flight. I also don't agree that it takes away from the "reality": if you're talking about a real D&D campaign, well, at least 75% of the fights in a typical campaign occur under roofs that are generally lower than 50'. Your mileage may vary, of course, but I'd be surprised, unless your DM is a wilderness nut. *grin* A 50' roof would still make flying very useful. I don't foresee Fly leaving the wizards' repertoire anytime soon. It would just give people more options to deal with it. If we are to have multiple fights in a day, and have to win more than 1 fight to advance, especially if you had to win multiple fights in 1 day to advance, then increasing the cost of magical items is uterly pointless, as it would be a more 'real' campaign setting, and then the costs are just fine the way they are, as characters must ration their resources to win multiple fights in 1 day before they receive more money... So, a fighter who wants to fly needs at least 2 potions of fly, because he has to win at least 2 battles to advance, and the spellcasters must not blow their daily spell alotment for the same reasons... If we raised the prices of things in this new environment, it would not work... We need to focus these discussions under the same topic, as they are directly related. I agree that these issues are related, and these changes should really go into effect simultaneously. It's gonna be complex. I just don't think there's a reasonable way to consolidate everything under one thread. It'd be too much for anyone to go through. I think a more realistic method is to vote on all three proposed changes separately (lowered roof, more expensive one-shots, several fights per day), and if we end up with something untenable, we can fix it soon enough. We can hardly get any worse than the current system, and this was workable for quite a while :) Don't forget, though, that some proposals suggest several fights a day, others suggest several fights to level, some suggest both, and some suggest neither. I agree that the 5x cost is only appropriate if we require one fight to level. I'd say maybe 2x cost for one-shots is good if we require 2 fights to level (but if people are unomfortable with a 2x modifier, I can accept no change in cost, if we require 2 fights to level). Note that the number of fights in a day should, IMHO, have no bearing on the cost of one-shot items. Only the number of fights needed to level should.
Zerone 10-07-04, 01:08 PM	Hmmm... ;) I still think that there should be different styles of arenas, low ceilings, open, undergound, darkness, shadows, weather effects, lakes and ponds, etc... I know that this makes a Pitlords job difficult, but it will give characters and races a chance to use their abilities. On a different note, perhaps, instead of changing the CoCo and having all it's members suffer the effects of testing new systems, we should have beta testers, a group of people who run extra characters and fights on the side to determine the best system for the CoCo. This way we could try out different battles under different systems, and not shake up the CoCo with many drastic changes, which I think could drive out some people because of the unstable environment, and the extra involvement they will have to have due to all of the changes that will be happening... Ideas? Zerone
barrel_master 10-07-04, 01:09 PM	Ok, did a few comparisons, and I have to concede the 5x rule is pretty good when comparing potions to their equivalent permanent items. Potion costs have the x5 figured in. Amulet of Natch Armor +5 Cost 50K Pot of Barkskin +5 Cost 6K each x 18 battles = 108K Amulet is the better buy, hands down. Bracers +4 Cost 16K Pot of Mage Armor (provides +4) Cost 250 each x 18 battles = 4,500 No reason to ever buy +1 through +4 bracers. Due to the way potions are priced (by spell level and not utility), Mage Armor pots are underpriced. Ring of Invis Cost 20K Pot of Invis Cost 1500 each x 18 battles = 27K This ones about a toss-up, since you won't be able to afford the ring right away. By the time you can afford it, it may be just as cheap to fight out the rest of your battles using pots. Girdle of Giant Strength +4 Cost 16K Pot of Bulls Strength +4 Cost 1500 each x 18 battles = 27K Girdle is the better buy, unless you can't afford it until later, then it's the same situation as the ring. Scrolls are a different story. Scrolls cost half as much as the equivalent potions, tilting the balance back in favor of the one-shot items (scrolls). Can scrolls be purchased from the DMG in CoCo or do they have to be scribed? I'd argue that the potions take a round to activate while the permenent enhancments do not. In the CoCo I've found that fighter basicly manage their turns (or time) and that having to drink a bunch of potions really restricts the time you have to attack. Also, unfortnately, you scenario is different from ours (you've touched on it a bit yourself). We've crafted characters to combat all the difficiencies you've pointed out. For example, invisibility isn't all that great in higher levels in CoCo. We have characters that can pinpoint on listen checks in almost any given circumstance. As your guys are fighting random monsters, it'll probably be tougher for you to work things out. Might I make a suggestion for you... just try different monsters... or have combinations of monsters battle the PC's. Or, you could make NPC wizzards or fighters battle against your PCs.
Caterane 10-07-04, 01:43 PM	One shot items are the friends of the non-casters, the weakest group in the CoCo. They are already at a disadvantage by spending time to quaff them while casters have their prebuffs. So increasing the cost by 5 is a bad solution in my opinion because one shot items ain´t known to break the balance. Lowering the ceiling is a very good idea. Fights are taking place in the air most of the time when in a campaign it takes place on the ground. In most dungeons, you can´t even take to the air at all. Rayne suggested different arena maps some time ago and I think this is a good way to reflect a campaign where you are confronted with different enviroments. So the arena we have now might be the "open air" setting, while another map might be the "dungeon" with close quarters. And that way, we wouldn`t even need to change the CoCo spellcaster rules. We might just aswell try this out first ...to see how a fighter vs wizard fight goes within the dense walls of an underground map. Phantom steed? Useless. This might be an easy and elegant step to make the CoCo a) more realistic and b) more balanced. It would also bring new wind into this board, perhaps a stepping stone to more interesting modifications ...and to achieve the perfect simulation of a real campaign.
Ashenai 10-07-04, 02:08 PM	One shot items are the friends of the non-casters, the weakest group in the CoCo. They are already at a disadvantage by spending time to quaff them while casters have their prebuffs. So increasing the cost by 5 is a bad solution in my opinion because one shot items ain´t known to break the balance. Two things wrong with that, as I see it. Firstly, the cheapest and arguably most powerful one-shot items--namely, scrolls--are the exclusive domain of casters. Without his scrolls, I know for sure that Ildechai would have lost at least two fights which he ended up winning. One of those fights was against a non-caster. Secondly, I'm hoping that non-casters will NO LONGER be the "ugly ducklings" of the CoCo. No longer will it be "oh, I'm fighting a melee build, guess I can relax." If one of the "balancing" changes passes, meleers will no longer have to be helped along like old ladies across a street. All in all, I think it would be a good idea. The Potion of Fly issue is the only potential problem I foresee, and that's why I'd like to see the ceiling lowered at the same time.
Jindl 10-07-04, 03:36 PM	Firstly, the cheapest and arguably most powerful one-shot items--namely, scrolls--are the exclusive domain of casters. Without his scrolls, I know for sure that Ildechai would have lost at least two fights which he ended up winning. One of those fights was against a non-caster. I agree completely. Noncasters typically depend on permanent equipment (armor, weapons, etc) much more than casters, who easily depend on scrolls. I think increasing the costs of one-shots helps the noncasters. This is not my main reason for supporting the change however. I support the change because it simulates the need to replenish your resources in a real campaign. Caster builds who have great success with high level (and expensive) scrolls don't work as well in a real campaign because of the cost of replacing those scrolls everytime they are used and the fact that you must win several fights to raise a level. The CoCo is very similar to a one-shot adventure, because each fight is basically a one-shot adventure. With unlimited time between them and gaining a level as a reward, it is very similar to a one-shot dungeon. To best represent the actual cost of using such items on a regular basis in a campaign, I think the DMG suggestion for one-shots is a good idea. Lowering the ceiling is a very good idea. Fights are taking place in the air most of the time when in a campaign it takes place on the ground. In most dungeons, you can´t even take to the air at all. I disagree completely. In real campaigns, especially as you gain levels, the majority of your opponents can and will fly. Every type of dragon can fly. Enemy NPC's usually have a means of flight. Most outsiders can fly. Etc. Etc. Sure, you may have fights against giants or orcs who cannot fly, but I would say that the majority of your opponents in a real campaign can fly. As for settings where flight is an option, obviously that will differ greatly from campaign to campaign. Some campaigns have lots of wilderness adventuring. Even encounters within a "dungeon" may be in a large cavern with a high ceiling. Since the majority of higher level encounters are with opponents with flight capability, it stands to reason that the settings for these encounters allow for the use of flight. I'd also like to point out that effective builds should be versatile, capable of both melee and ranged combat. Successful gladiators should be able to deal with a flyer using ranged attacks. We've said before that mobility is one of the key components to a successful build. Flight is one of the greatest types of mobility. Reducing flight, reducing mobility, is not indicative of a campaign, and does not lead to the most optimized builds. -Jindl
Jindl 10-07-04, 03:41 PM	@Jindl: Sure, I can do it. I'll have a lot of time this weekend, and my really difficult fight (Harvy vs. Cor) looks like it's going to be run real-time, which makes it a lot easier. I see that Pitlords has already assigned Snarkhunter to run Rhoar vs Enilias. Since this is the 2nd high level fight this week for Snark (and he requested only 1 high level fight), I'd like to hear from him if he wants to run it or give it to Ashenai to run. Of course, I am quite pleased because no matter which of you two we get as a pitlord, I know the fight will be in good hands :D -Jindl
Magagumo 10-07-04, 04:02 PM	I can only partially agree with you, Jindl, on enemy NPCs flying... perhaps I just don't tend to give them potions that are easily dispelled and take time to use, but most of my (16th+) NPCs in my Malign game are ground-bound. Also, only a few outsiders (esp. among devils/demons) fly. Actually, this is one of the balancing factors of Psions... only nomads get flight and that is a far less combat-minded group. So yea, I am actually for raising flight potion cost- I refuse to buy them and get beaten by other non-casters due to it- if you aren't using ranged attacks or flying mounts vs. an arcane caster, you're in trouble, but that's why Boots of Flying are so useful (The monk in my game adores his pair and has used them over 40x in the course of our campaign :))
Jindl 10-07-04, 04:17 PM	I can only partially agree with you, Jindl, on enemy NPCs flying... perhaps I just don't tend to give them potions that are easily dispelled and take time to use, but most of my (16th+) NPCs in my Malign game are ground-bound. Also, only a few outsiders (esp. among devils/demons) fly. All half-outsider templates can fly. Most celestials can fly (name one besides the hound archon that can't). And a large number of demons/devils can fly, especially at higher CR's (pitfiend, cornugon, succubus, erinyes {sp?}, hezrou, balor, etc. etc.). Also, the majority of undead can fly, the majority of magical beasts can fly, a large number of aberrations fly, etc. etc. Pretty much only constructs, plants, monstrous humanoids, giants, and humanoids have a majority of flightless races. And the latter three can cast spells/use items to grant flight. Actually, this is one of the balancing factors of Psions... only nomads get flight and that is a far less combat-minded group. So yea, I am actually for raising flight potion cost- I refuse to buy them and get beaten by other non-casters due to it- if you aren't using ranged attacks or flying mounts vs. an arcane caster, you're in trouble, but that's why Boots of Flying are so useful (The monk in my game adores his pair and has used them over 40x in the course of our campaign :)) I agree that boots of flight are probably better than boots of speed, especially for a noncaster who is already getting 3 or 4 attacks just from Bab. But keep in mind, there are other ways for a noncaster to gain flight besides just the boots of flying. There's the flying carpets, winged shields, wings of flying, figurines of power (bronze griffon, obsidian steed, ivory goats), ring of spell storing (fly), and of course, lots of potential allies who can either cast fly or become a flying mount. All of these are more realistic representations of a campaign than assuming that all fights are ground-bound or that PC's blow a potion: fly on every fight. As for the fear of dispel magic, most potion users get rings of counterspelling to protect them from this (heck, I think Brackin had 3 of them). -Jindl
Magagumo 10-07-04, 04:29 PM	Just to be picky :-P ... hezrous don't fly :-p Which undead fly? I only count banshees, ragewinds, deathshriekers, and of course the incorporeals. My point, is that while many things fly, only high-lvl outsiders, dragons, and a few magical beasts can actually attack from the air (i.e. without engaging the readied fighter in melee). Meanwhile, the low-lvl casters are soaring and of course the purchasers of Fly potions ;) /rambling nonsense
Ashenai 10-07-04, 05:04 PM	I honestly don't see the problem. It's not as if a 50' ceiling will suddenly make flying unviable. It just makes it possible for more builds to deal with flying, in more ways. ATTENTION ELDERS! (I guess this means Cat and Jindl too, right now...) Since all of the debated issues seem to have enough support to at least be worthy of a Council vote, the issues are now up on the Council board! (Thanks, DR!) Come and vote! Naturally, this doesn't mean discussion here should stop; quite the contrary. :)
Jindl 10-07-04, 05:10 PM	Just to be picky :-P ... hezrous don't fly :-p Sorry buddy, I meant nalfeshnee's. While we're at it, lets add quasits, imps, and vrock's to the list of demons/devils that can fly. And of course there are lots of other outsiders that fly (arrowhawks, rasts, ravids, vargoulles, coutls, nightmares, cauchmares, all the mephits, just to name a few). Which undead fly? I only count banshees, ragewinds, deathshriekers, and of course the incorporeals. Not core, not core, not core. :D Flying undead: vampire, vampire spawn, ghosts, wraiths, spectres, shadows, nightwings, nightwalkers, most liches, etc. My point, is that while many things fly, only high-lvl outsiders, dragons, and a few magical beasts can actually attack from the air (i.e. without engaging the readied fighter in melee). Meanwhile, the low-lvl casters are soaring and of course the purchasers of Fly potions ;) /rambling nonsense Add elementals to the list of types that usually fly, and add oozes to the ones that don't. Yes, many of these creatures lack ranged attacks and so must close with the readied fighter to attack (though a lot more than you suggest can fight effectively from range - harpies, ogre mages, mephits, dragon, anything with a breath weapon, anything that can use a bow, anything with spell-like abilities, etc). But, that means the creature chooses when to fight (it can always just fly away). It can also choose which PC to attack (it can avoid the readied fighter to attack the much weaker bard/wizard/rogue/etc). The enhanced mobility of flight gives them an advantage, and is an extremely common element in a real campaign, epecially at higher levels. This is reflected by the current arena, and should continue to be reflected. Ignoring flight does not lead to versatile optimized builds. -Jindl
Magagumo 10-07-04, 05:16 PM	Vamps & Liches? I assume you are referencing through magical means :-P As for the incorporeals & elementals- my point is that none of these creatures can safely sit out of harm's way and assault the players at low levels. Not to abuse Ashenai, but the fact is that Moksha's ability to fly essentially cripples CrestingSun- a limit on potions of fly (as per cost) fixes one problem while I must say that the 50' flight ceiling (I'd go 60' for some reason), does allow for nasty assaults while maintaining a fair attack range- in all the adventures I read, most indoor encounters take place in no higher than 30' ceilings, and most creatures remain within 60' or so to implement their better spell or breath weapons ;). *shrug* I can't say for certain, I'd rather see the cost-limiter go into effect first, then have us examine a flight ceiling, if it is necessary, in later weeks. Edit: On the note of outsiders, I believe this is why the DMG recommends arcane casters to deal with them (just as clerics are good v. undead). Without a longer range blaster, some of those demons can walk all over you with their alignment-based spells. Edit2: On a complete side note, my gaming group is seeing the rise of another Arena (run by one of my players in honor of my previous works). However, now we're doing temas in order to lower the chance of "I'm a fighter, you're a wizard with flight, I lose." I'll keep y'all posted on how it goes ;)
Jindl 10-07-04, 05:17 PM	I honestly don't see the problem. It's not as if a 50' ceiling will suddenly make flying unviable. It just makes it possible for more builds to deal with flying, in more ways. The problem is that a 50 ft ceiling means a flyer will ALWAYS be in close range. This may actually hurt the noncasters, as they can't fly out of range of the short range spells of the casters. It has other affects as well, such as eliminating the need for feather fall, reducing the distance you can cover in a dive, or just plain eliminating the risk of falling. A 150 ft ceiling is not that high. It is only the second range increment for a bow (the first if you took Far Shot). It's medium range for spells. You can't even reach terminal velocity (20d6 falling damage) from that height. I think setting the ceiling at 150 ft was a compromise in the first place. Many times in a campaign, one group is capable of much higher altitudes than this. But I think very few times are the encounters limited to a 50 ft ceiling (even underground encounters often have a higher cieling, epecially in the underdark or when higher CR creatures are involved). Why do you think the ceiling needs to be lowered? What advantages do you think that offers? -Jindl
Jindl 10-07-04, 05:25 PM	Vamps & Liches? I assume you are referencing through magical means :-P As for the incoporeals- my point is that none of these creatures can safely sit out of harm's way and assault the players at low levels. Vampires (and spawn) through gaseous form. Since all liches are 11th level casters, yes I was assuming spellcasting (which is why I said "most"). :D I understand your point, did you understand mine? Flight allows you to choose when to attack, when to flee, and which opponent to attack. That's a serious advantage, even if you must close with a PC in order to attack. This discussion is not just about low levels, you know. I keep referencing higher CR opponents, and the lowering of the cieling is being suggested for all fights, especially the higher level ones (it started with concern over boots of flying, which couldn't be purchased until 9th level anyway). Not to abuse Ashenai, but the fact is that Moksha's ability to fly essentially cripples CrestingSun- a limit on potions of fly (as per cost) fixes one problem while I must say that the 50' flight ceiling (I'd go 60' for some reason), does allow for nasty assaults while maintaining a fair attack range- in all the adventures I read, most indoor encounters take place in no higher than 30' ceilings, and most creatures remain within 60' or so to implement their better spell or breath weapons ;). CrestingSun should have some ranged weapons. How can you consider a build optimized if it has no method of fighting at range? Not to mention, Ashenai could say that Moksha would be crippled if forced into a 10x10 room with CrestingSun. *shrug* I can't say for certain, I'd rather see the cost-limiter go into effect first, then have us examine a flight ceiling, if it is necessary, in later weeks. I agree. The one-shot cost rule is much more appropriate to a campaign and may solve any perception of a flight cieling problem. -Jindl
Jindl 10-07-04, 05:27 PM	Edit2: On a complete side note, my gaming group is seeing the rise of another Arena (run by one of my players in honor of my previous works). However, now we're doing temas in order to lower the chance of "I'm a fighter, you're a wizard with flight, I lose." I'll keep y'all posted on how it goes ;) Sounds cool. I was trying to think of a similar way of expanding the CoCo to use teams. Oh, and don't you mean "I'm a fighter with a bow, you're a wizard with flight, you lose ..." -Jindl
Jindl 10-07-04, 05:33 PM	Edit: On the note of outsiders, I believe this is why the DMG recommends arcane casters to deal with them (just as clerics are good v. undead). Without a longer range blaster, some of those demons can walk all over you with their alignment-based spells. I never really understood that recommendation. Demons and Devils are among the toughest opponents for an arcane caster. All good saves, high SR, lots of elemental resistances, lots of spell-like abilities, greater teleport at will -> these abilities make it VERY difficult for an arcane caster to hurt a demon/devil, much less protect himself from them. And how exactly does an arcane caster protect his party from the alignment-based spells? I think the recommendation is based on the idea of the arcane caster buffing the party to improve its effectiveness. That's really the best use for a caster when facing something like a high CR demon or devil. After all, if you buff the archer (cat's grace, haste, greater magic weapon, etc) then he will deal much more damage than the arcane caster could directly, without worrying about outsider's SR, saves, or elemental resistances. Especially for those buffs that affect the entire party. -Jindl
Ashenai 10-07-04, 06:50 PM	Rest easy, Mag, Moksha won't fly. I decided that would be a bit... well, cheap. Jindl: I'd like to lower the ceiling because I think it's a better compromise than the current 150', whether from the POV of balance or from simulating a real campaign. In a campaign, there are wilderness encounters, caverns, mid-sized rooms, and lots and lots of rooms that don't allow flying at all. I think a middling restriction of flying (50' ceiling) seems to be a resonable average.
Caterane 10-08-04, 09:18 AM	@all: How deep is the arena for burrowing purposes? I disagree completely. In real campaigns, especially as you gain levels, the majority of your opponents can and will fly. Every type of dragon can fly. Enemy NPC's usually have a means of flight. Most outsiders can fly. Etc. Etc. Sure, you may have fights against giants or orcs who cannot fly, but I would say that the majority of your opponents in a real campaign can fly. You wanna tell me that 90% of the beasts you encounter in a campaign can fly?? LOL As for settings where flight is an option, obviously that will differ greatly from campaign to campaign. Some campaigns have lots of wilderness adventuring. Even encounters within a "dungeon" may be in a large cavern with a high ceiling. Since the majority of higher level encounters are with opponents with flight capability, it stands to reason that the settings for these encounters allow for the use of flight. Yeah, and now you wanna tell me that you can fly in 90% of the settings?? Well, I have always wondered in what strange enviroments your D&D group runs around but in my and any other normal group you spend a lot of time in dungeons, castles, buildings, caverns, temples, etc etc etc and the majority of fights take place in non-open air settings. But I agree with you on one thing: As for settings where flight is an option, obviously that will differ greatly from campaign to campaign. So the obvious solution would be to install random maps, right? Or this quote: I'd also like to point out that effective builds should be versatile, capable of both melee and ranged combat. Successful gladiators should be able to deal with a flyer using ranged attacks. We've said before that mobility is one of the key components to a successful build. Flight is one of the greatest types of mobility. Reducing flight, reducing mobility, is not indicative of a campaign, and does not lead to the most optimized builds. But your flying build has to deal with situations where he cannot fly and cannot use his mobility. This is part of the reality of a campaign. If you test only the best circumstance, one aspect of many, here in the arena (best mobility, full spells, etc) then the test is pretty useless. So I agree that we should have an open-air setting (the current arena) but we should also have a big cavern (40ft ceiling), and a dungeon with 20ft. Wouldn`t this be so much better a test for your build?
Jindl 10-08-04, 10:39 AM	@all: How deep is the arena for burrowing purposes? According to the arena map, the walls, ceiling and floor extend 10 ft in every direction. You wanna tell me that 90% of the beasts you encounter in a campaign can fly?? LOL That's not even close to what I was saying. I was saying that nearly half the monsters in the MM have a means of flight. Where did you get 90% from (I don't think anyone has made any statements about percentages). Yeah, and now you wanna tell me that you can fly in 90% of the settings?? Again, where did you get 90% from? There haven't been any statements about percentages. I think that about a third of the encounters are outdoors and have unlimited ceilings. Another sixth of the encounters take place in large chambers where ceilings are above 60 ft. And that the number of these encounters increases as CR's increase. Do you really expect to fight the dragon in a room with a ceiling to low for it to fly and manuever? Well, I have always wondered in what strange enviroments your D&D group runs around but in my and any other normal group you spend a lot of time in dungeons, castles, buildings, caverns, temples, etc etc etc and the majority of fights take place in non-open air settings. So I suppose wilderness encounters are "strange environments"? What about encounters while on a ship? Or while protecting a settlement from <insert monster>? Etc. Etc. The campaign world contains MANY more outdoor environments than it does buildings, caves, or dungeons. So the obvious solution would be to install random maps, right? But your flying build has to deal with situations where he cannot fly and cannot use his mobility. This is part of the reality of a campaign. If you test only the best circumstance, one aspect of many, here in the arena (best mobility, full spells, etc) then the test is pretty useless. So I agree that we should have an open-air setting (the current arena) but we should also have a big cavern (40ft ceiling), and a dungeon with 20ft. Wouldn`t this be so much better a test for your build? There are plenty of times when flyer's don't choose to fly in the arena. Indeed, anyone who rides a phantasmal steed is choosing not to fly. As for the random maps, I would be more inclined to support that proposal if it took more than one fight to raise a level. Then the randomness can even out over time. But I don't want a build whose strength is flying (like your half-celestials, who spent +4 LA to gain wings) to be put in a 40 ft ceiling room again and again because they were unlucky in the random map selection. If we did go with random maps (because we decided it would take multiple wins to advance a level), then I would have one with 300 ft, one with 150 ft, and one with 75 ft ceilings. But as I already agreed with Mag, I think we should test the one-shot rule first, before making any decisions about changing the ceiling. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 10-08-04, 11:06 AM	There are plenty of times when flyer's don't choose to fly in the arena. Indeed, anyone who rides a phantasmal steed is choosing not to fly.Note that phantasmal steeds DO fly. And very well at that. If we did go with random maps (because we decided it would take multiple wins to advance a level), then I would have one with 300 ft, one with 150 ft, and one with 75 ft ceilings. But as I already agreed with Mag, I think we should test the one-shot rule first, before making any decisions about changing the ceiling. -Jindl I think that we should change it to 200/150/100/50 300 is just too much. Ill add changes to the elder council listings if there is an agreement.
Jindl 10-08-04, 12:28 PM	Note that phantasmal steeds DO fly. And very well at that. Not until CL 14, and then its average manueverability (which is a problem when you must move 120 ft in order to stay airborne). And how funny is it to watch your 22 hp phantasmal steed killed by a single arrow or a fireball or something while at 100 ft of altitude, which of course causes the wizard that was flying on it to fall 100 ft and take 10d6 damage. Besides, ECL 14 characters should be capable of dealing with flight. I think that we should change it to 200/150/100/50 300 is just too much. Ill add changes to the elder council listings if there is an agreement. I chose my numbers based on the ranges of spells. 300 ft will get you out of range of most medium range spells. 150 ft will get you out of range of close range spells. 75 ft will keep you in range of close range spells. I don't think there is much difference between 150 ft and 100 ft in altitude, nor do I see the need for 4 different maps. I also think 50 ft is too low a ceiling. I don't think the Elder's should be examining this issue now. As Mag already stated, we should examine the one-shot rule first, and see how that affects things, before messing with the ceiling in the arena. I also wanted to make it clear that unless we are requiring multiple wins to advance a level, I am against random maps. -Jindl
barrel_master 10-08-04, 01:13 PM	I wonder if we're loosing track of why we want to lower the ceiling or increase the cost of 1x items... we want to increase the viability of fighters. Unfortunately, I'd argue that, fighers are inheriently weak when compared to wizzards or other casters. Most of us would agree that a cleric can make a much better melee character at higher levels in a campain. To be frank... even if the most draconian measures are taken, even if we make 1 hit items worth 10x more or make ceilings 30 feet casters will still be better. If we really want to even the playing feild, I'd suggest a DRAMATIC reduction in the # of spells any caster can cast in the arena... perhaps 1/2. But even then, I think they'd still have the advantage at 1/2 the spells. In the end, non-magic casting fighter types will still be not so great. And that's not entierly the arena's fault but rather, it's a result of imbalance in the core D&D rules.
Caterane 10-09-04, 10:00 AM	@Jindl: The 90% were there to reflect the meaning of your statement, that most of the monster (except plants and constructs?) can fly. I don`t think it is even the majority that flies, even at high level. So I suppose wilderness encounters are "strange environments"? What about encounters while on a ship? Or while protecting a settlement from <insert monster>? Etc. Etc. The campaign world contains MANY more outdoor environments than it does buildings, caves, or dungeons. No, wilderness encounters are not strange enviroments, but it is strange if they are the only enviroment. Yes, ship, hamlet, etc are all good adventuring spots as are those underground settings I listed. So what`s the obvious answer? We both agree that there are a variety of enviroments and that a single arena map doesn`t reflect this. So just let us install - let`s say 3 new maps - which feature the other aspects of adventuring, like dungeon crawling (the part where you don`t meet a dragon). As for the random maps, I would be more inclined to support that proposal if it took more than one fight to raise a level. Then the randomness can even out over time. But I don't want a build whose strength is flying (like your half-celestials, who spent +4 LA to gain wings) to be put in a 40 ft ceiling room again and again because they were unlucky in the random map selection. If your DM prepares the fifth dungeon crawl in a row, then it is bad for the mounted griffonarcher, but it may happen. This is part of testing a build. If my flying character is only good outside but horrible in caverns, then what use is it to me? And worse, the very build I thought would be successful after testing it here in the CoCo is suddenly facing unseen obstacles (like a dungeon) and proves to be very weak, then everything I tested here was futile. Besides, "time and again" is not very realistic. Randomness will even out over time. If we did go with random maps (because we decided it would take multiple wins to advance a level), then I would have one with 300 ft, one with 150 ft, and one with 75 ft ceilings. The arena as it is now is already very high, too high not only in my opinion (and all my characters are flyers from the early stages on so I know what I am talking about). It always bothered me that you are at a severe disadvantage if you cannot fly. However, in a campaign, this is not as crucial as it is here because you face low ceilings and dense enviroments. Your proposal - 300, 150, and 75 ft ceilings - would set the completely wrong impulse by taking the fights even more to the air than now. The result would be that now ONLY flying characters could succeed, or are you able to spot someone hiding 300 ft away with a -30 modifier to your check? The logical solution would be 155 (the current map) being the highest one, and 3 others with lower ceilings, perhaps one of it a dungeon-like structure.
Caterane 10-10-04, 05:35 AM	@Zerone: Yeah yeah yeah! Go Zoro :ayyyy!: Z
Zerone 10-10-04, 10:04 AM	@Zerone: Yeah yeah yeah! Go Zoro Z What ever could you mean??? :smirk:
LLMadCow 10-10-04, 01:32 PM	Has anyone given any though to making the fort save for Critical Damage a variable number instead of a flat 50? Find some sort of ratio of HP:# and stick with it. Spellcasters, with lower HP, will have to worry about this more.Why does a Wizard with 20 HP have a CD# of 50? I would consider that CD# = 1/2 HP. This way if you take more than 1/2 your total HP and fail the fort save, you die. Maybe the idea needs some tweaking, but it is worth consideration.
Ashenai 10-10-04, 04:33 PM	Well... I don't think it's really our job to "fix" the 3.5 rules. We're supposed to be Core. As far as I know, the only 3.5 rule we modified so far (besides the weird XP to gold thing) was the banning of the Gate spell, and we had very good reasons for doing that; Gate completely breaks the game at high levels. The Massive Damage rule is clearly not in the same category. While I like your suggestion better than the official rule, it would be a completely made-up houserule. Great for your own campaigns (I use a bunch of houserules in mine), but I don't think it'd have any place in the Core Coliseum.
Caterane 10-11-04, 09:53 PM	Trouble in Seven Strides, Part 2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4589924#post4589924) I had my fights finished on friday but decided to write a story around it. Btw, it´s monday night now.
KerlanRayne 10-12-04, 05:55 AM	GRRRR They changed how links work again. The email links are all broken. Half the links to posts are broken, the other half just work differently. We'll have to figure it out again. Hey Shadow! Do you know what's going on? Will they Change again? KerlanRayne
MadCowTemplate 10-12-04, 07:08 AM	Well, I live. And, with renewed apologies for the suddenness of my disappearance and the mess it left behind, I wish to return to the wonderful world of the arena. I'm trying to pick up the pieces of where I was with my character Lorelei. I would like to continue using her, but I of course want to make sure she is properly up to date. I left before seeing the results of her fight with Dart. While researching, I found this. When I informed the players who had won I Did ensure that they had advanced their characters and the Roster was successfully updated. Since that happened, I had phisical prints of the fighters made to run the fight offline. The problem now resides in the fact that I would have to retype or scan the phisical prints to get the fight correctly posted. Even though, It pains me to do it, and other pitlords have gotten away with it (ToK I believe) I will have my notes and character sheets Typed up. Today hopefully. Lorelei and Dart had minimal expenditures (lots of ammo). Posts #3448 and 3449 Not to mention the related incident of Lorelei attempting to commit identity theft against Lillith. To all of which I have the following to say, and I quote, "Whosa-wassa-wassa?!" I also notice that our "leadership structure" is ... different. I do have wonderful timing. I'm just going to ask this, does anyone have a problem with me listing the loss to Dart on Lorelei's sheet and otherwise calling her ready? I guess I'll send the question to ... I'll figure out who in a minute. But I also wanted to throw it out to the masses with my: Hi everybody!
Pittbull 10-12-04, 08:38 AM	I dicussed it allready with Mag, but I'd like to know all of your oppinions to this matter. It is impossible to strike virtual spots if your opponent has concealment (no sneak-attack!), but it is possible to strike the tiniest items with a sunder-attack, during concealment? That sounds pretty weird to me! I think it is impssible too, to sunder items if your opponent has concealment. What do you think? Thanks
Zerone 10-12-04, 08:44 AM	I dicussed it allready with Mag, but I'd like to know all of your oppinions to this matter. It is impossible to strike virtual spots if your opponent has concealment (no sneak-attack!), but it is possible to strike the tiniest items with a sunder-attack, during concealment? That sounds pretty weird to me! I think it is impssible too, to sunder items if your opponent has concealment. What do you think? I would say that there is a percentage that you could do any of the above, equal to the concealment %.
Pittbull 10-12-04, 09:15 AM	I would say that there is a percentage that you could do any of the above, equal to the concealment %. Sorry, I think, that's not right. Skip Williams says: Any attack that depends on hitting a foe in a particular place or in a particular way doesn't work against an unseen foe. Sneak attacks and bonus damage from the favored enemy class feature falls into this category. The DM might decide to include others as well. from the Rules of the Game (http://boards1.wizards.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4593593)
Jindl 10-12-04, 09:19 AM	I dicussed it allready with Mag, but I'd like to know all of your oppinions to this matter. It is impossible to strike virtual spots if your opponent has concealment (no sneak-attack!), but it is possible to strike the tiniest items with a sunder-attack, during concealment? That sounds pretty weird to me! I think it is impssible too, to sunder items if your opponent has concealment. What do you think? Thanks I can see your point. However, there is absolutely nothing in the rules that says you can't sunder if your opponent has concealment. It's not even suggested in the rules. Considering that sneak attacking is akin to slipping the blade between the ribs, I can understand how concealment could make it difficult to tell exactly where and what angle the blade should penetrate the target. Sundering is quite different, as you merely must hit the target (whether that target is 6 ft long, like a greatsword, or a couple of inches long, like a spell component pouch). You don't have to hit it in a specific way or in a specific place. I guess that's why concealment doesn't prevent the sunder attempt. It still should provide a miss chance (as sundering is an attack), but if you pass the miss chance, then you may hit the target. Despite your argument, I don't want to create a new rule which says sundering is impossible when the opponent has concealment. I also hope that may explanation offers a possible way it could be explained. -Jindl
Jindl 10-12-04, 05:46 PM	With Druid posting Donkey vs Zedarak, there are only 3 missing fights left. Mag has told me that he will have his done by tomorrow morning. Ashenai has the other two; has anyone heard from him? -Jindl
Druid Roxors 10-12-04, 05:53 PM	Well, I live. And, with renewed apologies for the suddenness of my disappearance and the mess it left behind, I wish to return to the wonderful world of the arena. I'm trying to pick up the pieces of where I was with my character Lorelei. Hey, wellcome back... I am a bit (no, really alot) confused about this... I would like to continue using her, but I of course want to make sure she is properly up to date. I left before seeing the results of her fight with Dart. While researching, I found this. Posts #3448 and 3449 Not to mention the related incident of Lorelei attempting to commit identity theft against Lillith. To all of which I have the following to say, and I quote, "Whosa-wassa-wassa?!" I'm just going to ask this, does anyone have a problem with me listing the loss to Dart on Lorelei's sheet and otherwise calling her ready? I guess I'll send the question to ... I'll figure out who in a minute. But I also wanted to throw it out to the masses with my: Hi everybody!I really dont remember who was doing the identity theft :P You against Lillith? So your fight was posted by someone else? I... Have no idea.. :mymy: I think ill research it and see if I still have the prints or if I posted it... I cant remember. (I probably didn't, though)
Magagumo 10-12-04, 05:56 PM	Not sure if I'm mistaken, but didn't the XPHB errata state that one could not gain more temp hp than the creature who you struck with the critting bodyfeedeing weapon? I may be mistaken, but this is how most of these abilities (like Vampiric Touch) function, probably to prevent auto-CDG of summons and the like, ne? Also, the size penalties for Gargantuan are actually -3 to AC and attack for Zed (this is not usually noted by the Expansion description because most characters are not assummed to be Large size).
Druid Roxors 10-12-04, 06:01 PM	Not sure if I'm mistaken, but didn't the XPHB errata state that one could not gain more temp hp than the creature who you struck with the critting bodyfeedeing weapon? I may be mistaken, but this is how most of these abilities (like Vampiric Touch) function, probably to prevent auto-CDG of summons and the like, ne? Yes, I thought so myself. But I did a quick read and didnt find it on the XPHB. It wouldn't change the outcome of the fight, obviously, but Ill revise that nevertheless.
Sindorin 10-13-04, 09:28 AM	Unless something is done to counterract all these late fights, it looks as if this week isn't going to have many active pitlords... If needed, I can take a fight, and it doesn't have to be low level anymore. Edit: I also notice that our council elders forum has kind of slipped back a page or two. I think for a lot of people here to understand things better they need to read all of the points and arguments stated in the quality posts on that thread. I propose a bump. :)
Pitlords 10-13-04, 05:10 PM	Pairings done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=2700233#post2700233) Pitlords may begin running fights without tactics on saturday Fights due monday Late penalties on tuesday Credit changes: +2: Caterane, Druid Roxors, Zerone +1: Snark Hunter, Jindl -1: Cellardweller
KerlanRayne 10-13-04, 06:05 PM	Hey Ash, you can just ready your character if you want to fight Cyric. KerlanRayne
Jindl 10-13-04, 06:11 PM	Credit changes: +2: Caterane, Druid Roxors, Zerone +1: Snark Hunter, Jindl -1: Cellardweller +2 for Caterane? Shouldn't it be +1, since he is only running 1 fight?
Caterane 10-13-04, 10:28 PM	+1 administrative. I assisted Shadow doing the pairings as I am assisting her updating the roster daily.
Ashenai 10-13-04, 11:23 PM	Thanks KR, but I just wanna take it easy this week, and writing tactics for caster vs. caster fights tends to give me an embolism. (Also, I'm not too happy with my credit balance as it is.) If you challenge Ild next week, I daresay he'll accept. :)
Beldin 10-14-04, 03:31 AM	@Kerlan: If you wish to fight Rhaegar I can ready him this afternonn ( in about 8 hours )
KerlanRayne 10-14-04, 04:46 AM	@Kerlan: If you wish to fight Rhaegar I can ready him this afternonn ( in about 8 hours ) Sure, go ahead. KerlanRayne
Jindl 10-14-04, 09:24 AM	Re: Rhaegar vs Cyric - If you need a pitlord, I can do it :D
Magagumo 10-14-04, 09:46 AM	Would someone be willing to Pitlord the fight between Ban'zanifal and Demon Lord Themmesz?
Zerone 10-14-04, 12:12 PM	First, a little setup is needed... Say a Wizard 5/Red Wizard 5 has a Rod of Absorption (RoA) half full, (25 of 50 charges). You have a RW Cohort who casts all spells as Spell Levels (SL) for the Circle Leader, you, to use (say that there are 25 SL). You use 5 SL to raise your caster level to 15 and use 2 SL for Empower on a Cone of Cold (CoC). These effects lasts 24 Hours. The CoC is still a 5th level spell. The question, when fighting you use the RoA to cast the Empowered CoC. How many charges does it drain from the RoA, 5 or 8 and would it still Empowered? *•. Z
Jindl 10-14-04, 12:16 PM	Would someone be willing to Pitlord the fight between Ban'zanifal and Demon Lord Themmesz? I would, but I doubt Druid would agree.
Jindl 10-14-04, 12:21 PM	First, a little setup is needed... Say a Wizard 5/Red Wizard 5 has a Rod of Absorption (RoA) half full, (25 of 50 charges). You have a RW Cohort who casts all spells as Spell Levels (SL) for the Circle Leader, you, to use (say that there are 25 SL). You use 5 SL to raise your caster level to 15 and use 3 SL for Empower on a Cone of Cold (CoC). These effects lasts 24 Hours. The CoC is still a 5th level spell. The question, when fighting you use the RoA to cast the Empowered CoC. How many charges does it drain from the RoA, 5 or 8 and would it still Empowered? *•. Z When draining stored spell levels from a rod of absorption, the caster uses those spell levels to cast a memorized spell on a 1 for 1 basis. So, the circle magic cone of cold is memorized in a 5th level spell slot, and the wizard should only need to drain 5 levels from the rod to cast it. The empower effect from the circle magic should only be attached to one casting of cone of cold, regardless of whether that casting was powered by the rod or by memorized spell levels. So if the rod-powered cone of cold was empowered by the circle magic, then the memorized cone of cold would no longer have a circle magic empower attached. -Jindl
Zerone 10-14-04, 12:32 PM	The empower effect from the circle magic should only be attached to one casting of cone of cold, regardless of whether that casting was powered by the rod or by memorized spell levels. So if the rod-powered cone of cold was empowered by the circle magic, then the memorized cone of cold would no longer have a circle magic empower attached. Hmmm... I see your point, but I do not believe that it reads that way. Where did you get this information? Again with semantics... The Rod states that it does not expend the preparation itself, and I would argue that Metamagic feats and RW Spell Levels are preparation effects, and would therefore not be expended...
Beldin 10-14-04, 12:35 PM	@Jindl, Kerlan: Rhaegar is edited. I will send tactics tommorow.
Magagumo 10-14-04, 01:07 PM	Actually, Jindl, if you look at our Fight Concerns for this week he did agree and even prepped Themmesz for our fight :) Ban is all prepared (didn't edit as it was my fault the airing was delayed). But yea, I think Druid and I are all set :)
Jindl 10-14-04, 04:04 PM	Actually, Jindl, if you look at our Fight Concerns for this week he did agree and even prepped Themmesz for our fight :) Ban is all prepared (didn't edit as it was my fault the airing was delayed). But yea, I think Druid and I are all set :) Mag, I know he agreed to fight Ban, I'm not sure he'd agree to have me as a pitlord. ;) Regardless, I sent a PM to Shadow asking for 1 of the two new fights to run, and she gave me the Rhaegar vs Cyric fight. It seems you have Caterane as your pitlord. -Jindl
Zerone 10-14-04, 04:24 PM	A few pages back there were several of us discussing the Red Wizards Spell Power ability and whether it affected all spells or just specialist spells. After reading the Archmage ability "Spell Power", the same name as the Red Wizard's ability, reason dictates that it affects all spells and not just specialist spells. Sindorin was right, and I believe that we were wrong... Sindorin, if you had just pointed this out to us... :P :D *•. Z
Zerone 10-14-04, 08:19 PM	Can a horse initiate a grapple?
Sindorin 10-14-04, 08:29 PM	A few pages back there were several of us discussing the Red Wizards Spell Power ability and whether it affected all spells or just specialist spells. After reading the Archmage ability "Spell Power", the same name as the Red Wizard's ability, reason dictates that it affects all spells and not just specialist spells. Sindorin was right, and I believe that we were wrong... Sindorin, if you had just pointed this out to us... :P :D *•. Z I did post about that here twice. Oh well :)
Zerone 10-14-04, 08:56 PM	I did post about that here twice. Oh well :) Sometimes I am blinded by my own genius-ness... :mymy: :D *•. Z
Bud Green 10-16-04, 11:57 AM	Hi again. Have been playing my PvM arena for the past couple of weeks and it's working out pretty well. If anyone wants to check it out PM me and I'll send you a copy. The 5x cost for potions, combined with disallowing potion usage during pre-buff, is working out very well (thanks Ash). But a couple issues have arisen and I beg your indulgence once again. How do you all handle invis? I dislike actually removing the minis from the map (remember that my arena is played FtF with the player controlling their PC/ally and the Pitlord controlling the monsters), and I cannot find a clear, concise description of when to rule for Spot and Listen checks. Does the exact location of an invisible foe need to be pinpointed to make an attack on that foe? Various rules seem to contradict each other. Does the -1 per 10' of range apply to all Spot checks? If a creature attacks then takes a 5-foot-step, does it's opponent have to find it again with new Spot/Listen checks? After my monk and his pet griffon (figurine) got slain by 2 pixies with 3 HP apiece and questionable invisibility usage by my friend, I feel the need to nail down an exact system for invisibility - and so far it is eluding me. Do all the Pitlords work invis exactly the same or does each Pitlord just work it according to their own interpretations? I have also been grappling with Grappling. Can a creature use a Su or Ex or Sp ability while grappling? Is it treated like a spell for that purpose? Does a creature with Pounce need to make grapple checks in order to use it's Rake attacks? And what's up with that -20 grapple check hold stuff under Improved Grab? Also, I am thinking of making a coliseum character. My question concerning that is - do I *HAVE* to use the default sheet? Honestly, I quoted it and was all ready to go but just looking at that sheet dissuaded me. I couldn't hardly make heads nor tails of it. Can I format it myself so long as all the necessary info is there? And is Courier necessary? I find the font to be butt-ugly, and not any more legible than Arial or Times New Roman. I don't want my character sheet to be butt-ugly (albeit the character himself might be).
barrel_master 10-16-04, 12:27 PM	I'll try answering some of your questions, unfortunately there are a lot of them and I probably won't get to all of them. Does the dude's exact location need to be pinpointed... from what I understand... as long as the character knows which 5 foot square the guy is in he can attack it. The invis guy will get a concelement bonus though. Yes, we've been doing the -1 per 10 feet for all checks. As for the attacking creature... you can listen passively... as for spotting an invis creature passively... ummm... yeah sure. I was under the impression that all the Pit guys work invis the same way. It's important to have consistency in the rules. As for using the sheet... you don't HAVE to use it... just as long as MOST of the info is on it and please try to add some of the text that outlines what your char has. (eg. HP, lvl, class, skills, ect.)
Jindl 10-16-04, 03:06 PM	As for using the sheet... you don't HAVE to use it... just as long as MOST of the info is on it and please try to add some of the text that outlines what your char has. (eg. HP, lvl, class, skills, ect.) I agree with barrel_master (on all his answers, not just this quoted section). I'd also like to add that you are welcome to quote the character sheet of one of the other players and modify it. I'm rather fond of the character sheet I use (and I'm glad to see that a few of the others have adopted it with few modifications.) Welcome to the CoCo!! -Jindl
Ashenai 10-17-04, 01:06 AM	Hi again. Have been playing my PvM arena for the past couple of weeks and it's working out pretty well. If anyone wants to check it out PM me and I'll send you a copy. The 5x cost for potions, combined with disallowing potion usage during pre-buff, is working out very well (thanks Ash). Glad it's working out for you! Now if only I could convince the guys here to adopt it... ;) How do you all handle invis? I dislike actually removing the minis from the map (remember that my arena is played FtF with the player controlling their PC/ally and the Pitlord controlling the monsters) No other way to do it right, I'm afraid. This isn't only the case with invis, by the way; any time the two players can't see (or hear) each other, keeping the miniatures on the map for the enemy to see isn't fair, IMO. But if you find it more fun this way, then by all means: sometimes, fun and playability might have to trump "realism". and I cannot find a clear, concise description of when to rule for Spot and Listen checks. Does the exact location of an invisible foe need to be pinpointed to make an attack on that foe? Nope. The attacker has to say exactly which square he's attacking into. If the defender's not there, then obviously, it's a miss. If the defender is there, then you roll the usual 50% miss chance. If you're doing it the "rules" way and keeping the location of the invisibile person a secret, you should roll the miss chance in secret, so that if he misses, the attacker won't know hether he missed because of the 50% miss chance, or because the defender wasn't there. Does the -1 per 10' of range apply to all Spot checks? Yes. If a creature attacks then takes a 5-foot-step, does it's opponent have to find it again with new Spot/Listen checks? Yup. (I'm assuming we're talking about Greater Invisibility here, since normal invisibility falls off if the creature attacks). On the other hand, note that engaging in combat gives you a -20 to hide, so spotting the invisibile creature in this case shouldn't be impossible. After my monk and his pet griffon (figurine) got slain by 2 pixies with 3 HP apiece and questionable invisibility usage by my friend, I feel the need to nail down an exact system for invisibility - and so far it is eluding me. Do all the Pitlords work invis exactly the same or does each Pitlord just work it according to their own interpretations? Hopefully, everyone does it the same way. Mistakes happen, of course. :) There's a reason pixies are CR 4... Greater Invis is very powerful. There are ways around it, even for a Monk, but yes, that would be a difficult battle. I have also been grappling with Grappling. Can a creature use a Su or Ex or Sp ability while grappling? Yes. Is it treated like a spell for that purpose? Good question. I don't think the rules address this. I'd say no; a dragon can use its breath weapon just fine while grappling. Does a creature with Pounce need to make grapple checks in order to use it's Rake attacks? No. And what's up with that -20 grapple check hold stuff under Improved Grab? A creature with Improved Grab who grabbed an opponent can choose to grapple as normal. Another option it has, however, it to only grapple its opponent with that one body part (one tentacle for a roper, for instance). It gets -20 to its grapple check if it tries that, however, if it succeeds, then its opponent is grappled as normal, while the creature itself can still act normally, except for the one part of its body that's grappling. Also, I am thinking of making a coliseum character. My question concerning that is - do I *HAVE* to use the default sheet? Honestly, I quoted it and was all ready to go but just looking at that sheet dissuaded me. I couldn't hardly make heads nor tails of it. Can I format it myself so long as all the necessary info is there? And is Courier necessary? I find the font to be butt-ugly, and not any more legible than Arial or Times New Roman. I don't want my character sheet to be butt-ugly (albeit the character himself might be). Heh. You can use any kind of sheet you like, as long as the information is on there.
Sindorin 10-17-04, 01:33 AM	I know what you mean about that courier font. I use a smaller font like Garamond for my sheet, it appears small for me... I don't know if anyone else has it though, they might just see a normal font. I like it being small because my opponent may miss something in preparing for a possible fight with a character of mine... I might have won some past fights simply because of this.
Bud Green 10-17-04, 04:48 AM	Thanks all for the helpful answers, and for confirmation that I don't need to use the default sheet or Courier font for my CoCo character. I am going to do it by the book for invis (ie - remove invisible monsters from the map). I still think the books are not precise enough about when you get reactive Spot/Listen checks, and I'm still unclear how the -20 to Hide checks figures in (since Spotting an invis creature is DC 20, not opposed check) and have some other questions but I'll hold off on them for now. Right now I have a more immediate (to me) concern. I'm making a Tiefling chick for CoCo. 1 HD + 1 LA = 2 ECL. She has no class. Literally. I read a few pages back where somebody said you can make a starting character with no class - just a race. I can't see that the rules specifically allow or prohibit this, although I do think it's implied that every character has a class. But assuming this is legal in CoCo, what are my BAB, base saves, and starting skill points? Also, do I get a feat? Jindl, I notice you have martial and simple weapon profs for your tiefling. Do I get those profs at start, even with no class? It doesn't say as much under Tieflings as Characters, but I would be limited to unarmed strikes for subdual damage or suffer non-prof penalties if I couldn't at least use a weapon...
Caterane 10-17-04, 09:11 AM	@Bud Green: You need at least one Hitdice to begin with - be it from a class level or a racial HD. A tiefling has no racial HD so you need 1 level in a class (and only 1 level since you always begin at the minimum ECL possible; minimum ECL 2). Note that tieflings have a Level Adjustment of +1, which means that you effectively lose a level but are still considered the higher level. So you have only 1 HD with your tiefling (the class level you have yet to pick) but are always considered 1 level ahead (lvl 2 in this case). Thus you gain hitpoints only from your actual HD, not from the tiefling who has none. Tieflings are outsiders and as such are proficient with all simple and martial weapons. Edit: The default sheet should assist members in creating characters but it is not mandatory (see my sheets... ©at :D). However, you must have all the important information on your sheet.
Zerone 10-17-04, 01:40 PM	Attn. Everyone: Anyone with interest in how Invisibility works in general and against Spot/Listen checks should look at the following articles. Both are written by Skip Williams and are from the D&D Homepage: There, Not There: Invisibility Part 1 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040914a) There, Not There: Invisibility Part 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a) Attn Bud Green: Welcome to the CoCo! *•. Z
Bud Green 10-17-04, 01:46 PM	Okay, now I'm really confused. How is it that a Tiefling has no HD? A Tiefling has 1 HD, no? A creature with no HD culd not exist. Ummm, just found this though (DMG 172, Monsters as Races): "If a monster has 1 Hit Die or less, or if it is a template creature, it must start the game with one or more class levels, like a regular character. If a monster has 2 or more Hit Dice, it can start with no class levels (though it can gain them later)." To me it looks like starting with any race with a LA of +1 or higher is not allowed, unless you can start at ECL 3 or higher. EDIT: Thx for the article links, and the welcome.
Zerone 10-17-04, 02:04 PM	Ok Bud, see if this helps for racial hit die... Humans, elves, dwarves, etc. have 0 racial hit die and are a template for a character class. A first level human would have an Effective Character Level (ECL) of 1. Tieflings, Asamir, etc. are +1 Level Adjustment (LA), and have 0 racial hit die and are a template for a character class. A first level tiefling would have an ECL of 2, 1 character level and 1 LA. Now, compaired to humans, tieflings recieve more begining attributes/abilities, making them more powerful than humans. So, a human fighter level 2 is equal to a tiefling fighter level 1. Both are ECL 2, the human has 2 fighter levels and the tiefling has 1 fighter level and +1 LA. LA is to equal out extra abilities between different races, where racial hit die are what make the monsters have higher challenge ratings. Edit: A character with a level adjustment of 0 or 1 starts off with 1 class level as it's first hit die. Also, look here, The SRD (http://www.prodigyweb.net.mx/rodomg/monstersOtoR.html#tiefling), under tiefling. There are guidlines on how to create a level 1 tiefling. Please note that there is no description for Racial Hit Die under "Tiefling as Characters"... SRD (http://www.prodigyweb.net.mx/rodomg/monstersOtoR.html#tiefling)
Bud Green 10-17-04, 02:37 PM	Also from the SRD: "Starting Level of a Monster PC: Monsters suitable for play have a level adjustment given in their statistics. Add a monster’s level adjustment to its Hit Dice and class levels to get the creature’s effective character level, or ECL. Effectively, monsters with a level adjustment become multiclass character when they take class levels. A creature’s “monster class” is always a favored class, and the creature never takes XP penalties for having it." Note that it says nothing about racial hit dice when figuring ECL here. Same in the DMG (pg 172, 2nd paragraph) and the MM (page 7, under Level Adjustment). and: "Hit Dice: The creature’s Hit Dice equal the number of class levels it has plus its racial Hit Dice. Additional Hit Dice gained from taking levels in a character class never affect a creature’s size like additional racial Hit Dice do." A Tiefling with no class levels therefore has 1 racial Hit Die, according to that forumula. Racial HD are simply all HD which do not come from class levels. They come from race. Thus, racial Hit Dice. The term Hit Dice and racial Hit Dice are synonymous when talking about a creature with no class levels. Ogres have 4 HD. They also have 4 racial HD. I'm aware that this gives monster races an effective 1 level penalty over the PHB races. But that's how it reads. It is a built-in penalty for taking a monster as a race. EDIT: There is no seperate entry for racial Hit Dice for Tiefling because there is no need for one. Hit Dice is racial Hit Dice. It's listed HD of 1d8+1 does not come from class levels. Therefore it is a racial HD. EDIT 2: MM pg 313 gives a definition of Racial Hit Dice, as follows: "The Hit Dice a monster has by vitue of what type of creature it is. Hit Dice gained from taking class levels are not racial Hit Dice. For example, the mind flayer sorcerer described in this book is a 17 HD creature because of it's nine levels of sorcerer, but it has 8 racial Hit Dice (the same number as a typical mind flayer without any class level)."
SnarkHunter 10-17-04, 02:52 PM	Ah, I think I see where your Cornfusion comes from then. The Tiefling from the MM does have a class level, its a first level warrior. TIEFLING Tiefling, 1st-Level Warrior Medium Outsider (Native) etc. etc. So if you were to make a new tiefling character youd probably want to switch out that first level of warrior for something else (I mean you wouldn't have to necessarily, but it would probably not be as effective as one level of Fighter). Make sense?
Zerone 10-17-04, 02:57 PM	The difference is, Character vs. Monster... Monster Tieflings have 1 racial hit die as an outsider. Character Tieflings have 1 racial hit die as per their class. So a Wizard Tiefling would have 1d4 hit die, etc. A Human Wizard level 2 is equal to a Tiefling Wizard Level 1. "If a monster has 1 Hit Die or less, or if it is a template creature, it must start the game with one or more class levels, like a regular character. If a monster has 2 or more Hit Dice, it can start with no class levels (though it can gain them later)." Actually, you said it all right here. :D
Bud Green 10-17-04, 03:04 PM	Hi Snark. I did fail to catch that. However, it still doesn't reconcile with *any* of the other rules I mentioned. I believe the difference is that the Tiefling presented in the MM is of an NPC Class (Warrior), not a PC Class. If it had of been a 1st-level Fighter instead of a 1st-level Warrior, it would have it's HD listed as: 1d8+1 plus 1d10 See the Ogre Barbarian or any other monster with a PC class for examples of what I'm talking about. A brief browsing of the MM confirms that this is the convention throughout the book. NPC classes are not meant to be played as PCs. They therefore do not need to be considered when figuring ECL of a monster PC.
Bud Green 10-17-04, 03:05 PM	The difference is, Character vs. Monster... Monster Tieflings have 1 racial hit die as an outsider. Character Tieflings have 1 racial hit die as per their class. So a Wizard Tiefling would have 1d4 hit die, etc. A Human Wizard level 2 is equal to a Tiefling Wizard Level 1. Actually, you said it all right here. :D Z, reread the definition of racial Hit Dice. Character levels are distinct from racial Hit Dice. In fact, it implicitly says that 'Hit Dice gained from taking class levels are not racial Hit Dice.'
Zerone 10-17-04, 03:32 PM	While every monster has the statistics that a player would need to play the creature as a character, most monsters are not suitable as PCs. Creatures who have an Intelligence score of 2 or lower, who have no way to communicate, or who are so different from other PCs that they disrupt the campaign should not be used. Some creatures have strange innate abilities or great physical power, and thus are questionable at best as characters (except in high-level campaigns). Starting Level of a Monster PC: Monsters suitable for play have a level adjustment given in their statistics. Add a monster’s level adjustment to its Hit Dice and class levels to get the creature’s effective character level, or ECL. Effectively, monsters with a level adjustment become multiclass character when they take class levels. A creature’s “monster class” is always a favored class, and the creature never takes XP penalties for having it. Humanoids and Class Levels: Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class. Characters with more than 1 Hit Die because of their race do not get a feat for their first class level as members of the common races do, and they do not multiply the skill points for their first class level by four. Instead, they have already received a feat for their first Hit Die because of race, and they have already multiplied their racial skill points for their first Hit Die by four. Level Adjustment and Effective Character Level: To determine the effective character level (ECL) of a monster character, add its level adjustment to its racial Hit Dice and character class levels. Use ECL instead of character level to determine how many experience points a monster character needs to reach its next level. Also use ECL to determine starting wealth for a monster character. Monster characters treat skills mentioned in their monster entry as class skills. If a monster has 1 Hit Die or less, or if it is a template creature, it must start the game with one or more class levels, like a regular character. If a monster has 2 or more Hit Dice, it can start with no class levels (though it can gain them later). Even if the creature is of a kind that normally advances by Hit Dice rather than class levels a PC can gain class levels rather than Hit Dice. Hit Dice: The creature’s Hit Dice equal the number of class levels it has plus its racial Hit Dice. Additional Hit Dice gained from taking levels in a character class never affect a creature’s size like additional racial Hit Dice do. Tieflings as Characters Tiefling characters possess the following racial traits. +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma. Medium size. A tiefling’s base land speed is 30 feet. Darkvision out to 60 feet. Racial Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks. Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels. Special Attacks (see above): Darkness. Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5. Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc. Favored Class: Rogue. Level adjustment +1. OGRES AS CHARACTERS Ogre characters possess the following racial traits. +10 Strength, –2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, –4 Intelligence, –4 Charisma. Large size. –1 penalty to Armor Class, –1 penalty on attack rolls, –4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters. Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet. An ogre’s base land speed is 40 feet. Darkvision out to 60 feet. Racial Hit Dice: An ogre begins with four levels of giant, which provide 4d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +3, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +1, and Will +1. Racial Skills: An ogre’s giant levels give it skill points equal to 7 x (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Climb, Listen, and Spot. Racial Feats: An ogre’s giant levels give it two feats. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An ogre is automatically proficient with simple weapons, martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields. +5 natural armor bonus. Automatic Languages: Common, Giant. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Orc, Goblin, Terran. Favored Class: Barbarian. Level adjustment +2. Sorry for the extensive post... Bud, if you look at the Bold part under Ogre, you will notice that there is no such entry for Tiefling. Therefore, there is no Racial Hit Die for Tieflings. They only recieve Hit Die from class. Ogre Barbarians are like starting a Ogre character from scatch, 0 level, and then gaining 4 levels of Barbarian. Ogre is an ECL of 6 (4 Racial Hit Die +2 LA). Ogre Barbarian is an ECL of 10 (4 Racial Hit Die, +4 Class Hit Die, +2 LA). Tiefling is an ECL of 2 (1 Class Hit Die [warrior] +1 LA). A Tiefling Character may exchange the Warrior class for any other class, and thus gain the new class' hit die.
SnarkHunter 10-17-04, 03:46 PM	Hi Snark. I did fail to catch that. However, it still doesn't reconcile with *any* of the other rules I mentioned. *snip* It's actually the same as almost every (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersEtoF.html#elf) other (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersG.html#goblin) 1 HD creature (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersOtoR.html#aasimar) in the MM. If people want to play one as a character they switch out the one class level for the class they'd like to play as.
Zerone 10-17-04, 04:32 PM	If a mishap happens when using a scroll, how do you determine what happens? I know what the DMG says, but that is DM interpretation. Is there a CoCo rule? Any help is appreciated! :D *•. Z
Bud Green 10-17-04, 04:36 PM	Bud, if you look at the Bold part under Ogre, you will notice that there is no such entry for Tiefling. Therefore, there is no Racial Hit Die for Tieflings. They only recieve Hit Die from class. @ Z: Two assumptions on your part. According to the definition of Racial Hit Dice, they are inaccurate. @ Snark: All the first level creatures I am finding are Warriors, not PC classes. Everything with a PC class has it's hit dice for class levels listed after it's racial hit dice. In any case, the evidence is anecdotal at best. The rule itself is plain, and so far I haven't been quoted any actual *rule* that states otherwise. The rules quite plainly state, in multiple places (including the SRD), that ECL is the total hit dice plus the level adjustment plus the class levels. It is not ambiguous. So far, nobody has found any rule that contradicts those. You have made assumptions and told me 'This is how it is'. Unfortunately, the rules clearly state that's NOT how it is. Again, ECL = total hit dice + class levels + level adjustment. That is plainly stated multiple times in the rules, which I have quoted. The definition of racial hit dice supports this, and directly contradicts what you are telling me.
Caterane 10-17-04, 06:38 PM	Eiletha vs Jin Szen is up. If you think someone who is blinded, paralyzed, doomed, and dying is no threat, then you will learn something!
Jindl 10-17-04, 06:40 PM	@Bud - I'm glad to see you are interested in testing a tiefling. I can tell you, they are fun :) To (hopefully) answer your question about racial HD vs class levels to start, please look in the MM at pg 290 (under Monsters and Class Levels, Humanoids and Class Levels). It says, "Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels {read as racial HD} with thier character levels. For example, a goblin sorceror loses its humanoid attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats, and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats and other class abilities of a 1st level sorceror." Apply this rule to the tiefling and you'll see that it loses it's racial outsider HD and replaces it with the first level of whatever character class you select. The example tiefling Warrior 1 supports this idea (it has no racial HD listed, only the 1d8 it gets as a warrior). Note that Tieflings gain all of the outsider traits listed in the glossary under Outsider type. That is the source of the martial weapon proficiencies, darkvision, and immunity to charm person/hold person effects. I put this to use with Aku, by using his outsider type to qualify for Eldritch Knight (which requires martial weapon proficiencies). I hope this clarifies things for you, if not... please respond :D -Jindl
Jindl 10-17-04, 06:42 PM	If a mishap happens when using a scroll, how do you determine what happens? I know what the DMG says, but that is DM interpretation. Is there a CoCo rule? Any help is appreciated! :D *•. Z We use the "A surge of uncontrolled magical energy deals 1d6 points of damage per spell level to the scroll user (DMG, pg 238)" option. -Jindl
Zerone 10-17-04, 07:02 PM	Thanks! :D *•. Z
Caterane 10-17-04, 07:39 PM	Choose your fight: Eiletha vs Jin Szen (the second run) Angosh vs Corinthus (the top fight)
Bud Green 10-17-04, 08:14 PM	I hope this clarifies things for you, if not... please respond :D -Jindl Oh don't worry, I'm not bashful when it comes to rules lawyering. I can beat a dead horse with the best of 'em. :D I can also admit when I'm wrong however, and I finally do see that I am. Thanks all for setting me straight without resorting to threats of physical violence. I'm not sure if it's the rules or me that's obtuse, but since everyone except me 'gets' the rules in question, I guess it must be me. ... Nawww, it's the rules. :D ot - Clicking on smilies doesn't work for me, so forgive my lack of creativity with them. In fact, none of the message formatting buttons work for me. I have to type in the tags for the vB stuff and the shorthand for smilies, and the only ones I know are :D :) and :(
Zerone 10-17-04, 09:24 PM	Attn. Bud Green: I understand how you feel, about the rules and such. Once my mind is made up, it is hard to change it. I've only been on the CoCo, maybe a month now, and I've realized 1 thing for sure... I don't know anything! Hope some of your fellow gamers from your home game make their way to the CoCo! *•. Z By the way, if you want Physical threats, I'm posting a new Gladiator to the CoCo this week, and I challenge your Tiefling character! "Let's get in on!" :fight!: And no, in no way was there an Al Green reference there... :turkey:
Bud Green 10-17-04, 10:58 PM	Your on Z! I accept your challenge. May the best rules lawyer win. :D
Zerone 10-18-04, 12:31 AM	Attn. Everyone: I am at an impass and ask your help in a fight. The fight is posted below. The question is, can Jindl's character (Remy Deepwise) move backwards behind cover and hide before Krail's character (Sir Draco Brightblade) has a chance to see him in round 3 (I know that it happens in round 2, but see the Comments and Concerns Thread for that Info). Again, this is a question of tactics writen, so please read Jindl's tactics for Remy along with the fight. Remy Deepwise vs. Sir Draco Brightblade (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4632099&postcount=998) Thank you for your help! :D *•. Z
Ashenai 10-18-04, 12:37 AM	I would say yes. Clearly, we can't write tactics based on every eventuality; if we expanded every simple instruction (sneak behind cover) to "move behind cover; half-move if there is cover within range, if not, then move at normal speed. Reaching cover is the main priority", then everyone would have to write a novel for tactics. To me, it is evident that Jindl wanted his character to reach cover. Since it wasn't possible with a half-move, I'd do it with a normal-speed move. I think it is more important to look at the intent of tactics than their actual wording. Obviously, it's a judgment call, and after a certain point, you just can't ignore the wording, but I think this case is well within the area of "to be interpreted kindly".
Zerone 10-18-04, 07:54 AM	Ok. I'll edit the fight. I will not be able to get to it till after 4 pm (16.00), which is +6 GMT, I believe, so 22.00. When are the fight due by, or rather, when are they counted as late?
Jindl 10-18-04, 09:25 AM	Ok. I'll edit the fight. I will not be able to get to it till after 4 pm (16.00), which is +6 GMT, I believe, so 22.00. When are the fight due by, or rather, when are they counted as late? Fights are late Tuesday morning. There's not a specific time listed, but usually its around 10 AM EST. -Jindl
Jindl 10-18-04, 10:03 AM	@Bud - Check the violations thread for a quick audit of Sylvy. :D -Jindl
Bud Green 10-18-04, 04:54 PM	Thanks Jindl. *Blinks Eyes* 36 pts? Cool! For some reason I was thinking I only had 32 to spend. I will also add the appropriate sections for the equipment sold and wins/losses. Question: Do I have to buy equipment before pairings? I already know I will be fighting Zerone's character but I haven't seen him yet. Not sure if the equipment (read potions) I bought are actually what I want to go with. I might change it.
Zerone 10-18-04, 05:50 PM	Attn. Bud Green: Sinse you are so interested in my character... it will be a psion. By the way, your Racial Enemy Devotion to me is flattering, but would be a waste if you just spent it on 'lil-old me... :smirk: *•. Z
Ashenai 10-18-04, 05:58 PM	Yes indeed, you have to buy equipment (and memorize spells) before pairings.
Zerone 10-18-04, 06:00 PM	Attn. Ashenai: Regarding the Remy vs. Sir Draco fight, Remy's tactics state: Phase 1 - Drink the potion: mage armor (drop the vial) and move back towards cover (sneak). Draw/drink the elixer of hiding and tap the tattoo: chameleon while moving (sneaking) back towards cover. Hide behind the cover (with the above, Remy's hide check should be at +36!!). The way it is written is to reach cover by round 3. Draco sees him on round 3 then he would move to cover - ie, too late. So, could you please explain to me how you interpret Remy's tactics differently? :) Zerone
Bud Green 10-18-04, 07:14 PM	Attn. Bud Green: Sinse you are so interested in my character... it will be a psion. By the way, your Racial Enemy Devotion to me is flattering, but would be a waste if you just spent it on 'lil-old me... :smirk: *•. Z That depends on your race now doesn't it? :D
Ashenai 10-18-04, 07:23 PM	Okay first of all, I think it's important to keep in mind that people often communicate intent in their tactics, as opposed to actions. Jindl, in fact, does this quite a bit: when I ran Evram vs. Bubo (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4198784), I remember Jindl's tactics saying "As soon as possible, charge Evram (try to move silently when charging, if Evram seems to be readied)". This didn't mean anything in rules terms; charging gives a -20 to MS. Case closed. Still, I understood his intent: he didn't want his charge to be interrupted. And that's how I tried to play it. (Incidentally, writing intent as opposed to rules stuff has nothing to do with how well you know the rules. I know that Jindl knows the rules better than I do. I'm guessing it probably has more to do with whether you're a right-hemisphere or left-hemisphere person.) Secondly: keep in mind that I am an unusually lenient pitlord. Most pitlords probably wouldn't agree with me. I like to put myself in the gladiator's shoes; if I were running Remy vs. Draco, here's what "my" Remy would think (I'm assuming Remy won initiative here, because it's simpler. I'm not sure who actually won it). Round 1: "Okay, I won initiative, so I'm at (20,0), and Draco is at (-20,0), 200' away. Since his Listen skill is -1, and my MS is 10, there is no possible way for him to hear me, even if I move full-speed. So that's what I want to do. Let's see... I want to drink my potion and move backwards to cover. Closest cover backwards is (27,-4), so that's where I'm going to end up. For now, let's move as much as possible. Drink potion, move to (24,-1)." Round 2: Move to (27,-4), draw elixir. Round 3: Use elixir, etc., etc. Again, I must emphasize that this is how I would do it. I'm not saying this is the correct way to do it. I don't think there is a correct way to do it. So far, I've had two complaints regarding this style; one player complained that I didn't adapt his tactics enough, and one player compained that I adapted the tactics of his opponent too much. This shows, IMO, that I'm mostly on the right track; maybe I'm occasionally too strict and occasionally too lenient, but I'm hovering around the "sweet spot" for player satisfaction.
Caterane 10-18-04, 07:48 PM	Let's don't forget that Jindl is the advocate of tactics being followed by the very word. Or perhaps he has changed his mind and agrees with us 'adapters'? Anyway, here's the 1000th post on the fights thread: Demon Lord Themmez vs Ban'zanifal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4639244&posted=1#post4639244) I regret that I didn't write a story but since Druid didn't send me tactics I waited until now, and now it's too late to write anything.
Jindl 10-18-04, 09:23 PM	By the very word, my tactics said to do these things "while moving". While moving means to take a move action each round to move towards cover and use a standard action to complete one of the things. I certainly did not want to move at half speed, else I would have said to. With the range penalties on listen and Remy's superior move silently skill, the -5 penalty for moving at full speed is irrelevant. So, Remy should drink the potion: mage armor and move 20 ft towards cover in rnd 1. In rnd 2, Remy should draw the elixer and move 20 ft behind cover (and hide at the end as part of his move). This is what I meant when I said do these things "while moving". I certainly did not want Remy to stop moving when he was halfway to cover, so he could draw and drink the elixer in the same round. That's why I said "while moving". Of course, Ash reached the same conclusion by looking at the intent of my tactics. Understanding the intent is very useful when tactics don't cover an unexpected situation. But in this case I felt my tactics were pretty clear that I wanted to do these things while moving, which would put me behind cover after my action in rnd 2. -Jindl
Caterane 10-18-04, 09:32 PM	The problem is that if you now begin to write 'unclear' tactics and we are to guess your intent, then this will just increase your leeway of interpretation in case the fight is lost. If I would moderate your fight - which I won't - then I would go by the very word, not missing a single letter; perhaps even quoting your tactics at the end of the round. But as I said, I am not your pitlord. It's up to Zerone to decide what he wants to do. And why are we discussing this in the Tavern?
Bud Green 10-18-04, 11:35 PM	I'll weigh in because Zerone asked for input and just cuz I can. Feel free to ignore. Jindl, you said in your tactics to 'sneak'. The problem I see is, 'sneak' is not D&D terminology. In the Fight Complaints thread, you stated that by 'sneak' you meant to move silently at your full movement speed. Why not just say that then? There is nothing in the books that says that's what sneak means. If you wanted to do something in a precise way, you should have stated it in precise terms. You used a term that was subject to interpretation, and therefore should accept Z's interpretation. Had you of phrased it in specific D&D terms, it would not of been subject to interpretation. And @ Zerone - I would also interpret the word sneak to mean a move at half speed. It seems logical to me that sneaking = type of movement that does not incur a penalty to the MS check.
Caterane 10-19-04, 12:22 PM	T'Var vs Karl is posted. Link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4643989&posted=1#post4643989)
Zerone 10-19-04, 02:54 PM	Attn. All: I have come up with an idea to make the CoCo an easier place to learn... Since we here at the CoCo have several unwritten rules, perhaps we should create an account as a welcoming party, designated to greet and explain the unwritten rules along with the links to the written rules of the CoCo. I know that they are already posted, but links to important things and reads could prove useful and helpful to a new character, plus the explaination of where to post what; an index of sorts. This would be sent out to all new members as a welcome and general overview of the layout of the site. I volinteer to create such an account and the 'form letter', but would require help from some of the more crafty veterans of the CoCo. Please, give me any feedback or ideas you have, especially if you think it is a good or bad idea. We were all new once and it takes a few weeks to get used to the layout and the unwritten rules (where to post what, etc.). I also think that we could break up the Character Creation thread into better and more precise sections, making it easier to find and learn the basics. Sincerely, *•. Zerone
T'Var 10-19-04, 06:14 PM	You may craft or purchase a scroll: empowered magic missile (CL9). You may not craft or purchase a potion: shield (CL1). isnt this a bit unfair to non-casters? just wondering the reason for such a ruling that would give a ecl2 the ability to do appx max 25dmg on an auto hit and not give the ability for a figher or rogue to defend against it?
Bud Green 10-19-04, 06:24 PM	Attn. All: I have come up with an idea to make the CoCo an easier place to learn... Since we here at the CoCo have several unwritten rules, perhaps we should create an account as a welcoming party, designated to greet and explain the unwritten rules along with the links to the written rules of the CoCo. I know that they are already posted, but links to important things and reads could prove useful and helpful to a new character, plus the explaination of where to post what; an index of sorts. This would be sent out to all new members as a welcome and general overview of the layout of the site. I volinteer to create such an account and the 'form letter', but would require help from some of the more crafty veterans of the CoCo. Please, give me any feedback or ideas you have, especially if you think it is a good or bad idea. We were all new once and it takes a few weeks to get used to the layout and the unwritten rules (where to post what, etc.). I also think that we could break up the Character Creation thread into better and more precise sections, making it easier to find and learn the basics. Sincerely, *•. Zerone I think it's a good idea. The FAQ should also be modified to get rid of a couple inaccuracies. For instance, the FAQ seems to suggest that the default character sheet is mandatory, and that Courier font is as well. I seriously think those items could keep players away. Players like to customize their own sheets and use the font they like. Well, maybe that's just me. But I don't see the need for the default sheet - there are already plenty of characters to use as examples, and speaking first-hand as a noob those are a lot easier to use than the default sheet.
SnarkHunter 10-19-04, 07:37 PM	Evening all, my computer is once again in order (for now... :twitch:) so I think I'll risk readying one of my folks, Good old Donkey, eh what? I'd offer to go after Dre but I wouldn't want to steal Angosh's Thunder :).
MadCowTemplate 10-20-04, 04:57 AM	On Zerone's "Newcomer Index" As someone who is recently "new" to the arena for the third time, I think that's a FABULOUS idea, and in fact, I've been wishing there was something like that since the first time I was new. Good on you for bringing it up Zerone. I thought about mentioning it, but I would've wanted to volunteer to help, and, well, I just couldn't do that. On Tactics I for one am very glad that my last fight's pitlord had the foresight to determine, even before starting the fight, that I had no chance to succeed. And that he took it upon himself to save my character some money by having her not use a valuable item. Also, he seems to have attempted to save me embarrassment by editing out parts of my tactics for his fight post. Evidently, my tactics were so bad, or perhaps just too long, that he felt it would shame me for them to be seen. And while I do appreciate that jester, I think it's only fair to everyone else that I here present my complete tactics as sent, by the very word. -------------------------------------------------- Hey there Jindl! Long time no type. First, let's get this out of the way: Lance hasn't fought since it was pointed out that a comp longbow could be used mounted, but a normal longbow couldn't. Unfortunately I neglected to update this before re-activating him. Lance is a mounted archer build so it is pretty critical for him to fire from horseback. Do you mind if we treat his bow as composite for the purposes of this fight, and I'll update it afterwards? cellerdwellar I have no objection at all to this, and in fact I feel it would be unfair not to. By all means, let's do what is needed to test our builds the way they were intended. That said, here are my somewhat lengthy tactics which would undoubtably have been simpler if he weren't a mounted archer. BTW, I wrote my tactics before reading this message, and left them unaltered. Intro: Approach Lance for introductions. Great him happily in elven with bright eyes looking him up and down. Lorelei asks him to write a song for her if she wins. In exchange she'll offer to let him ravish her if she loses. "I'll try to resist throwing the match." ;) no really, she winks. Start: Mounted, holding: Potion of Protection from Chaos, javelin 1st: Ride forward single move, use potion Pro. Chaos. 2nd: Ride towards him on full defense, trying to get a feel for his behavior. Plan A: Sticks and Stones If he's mounted, but he gets close enough to make use of Point Blank Shot. Go blow for blow with ranged weapons. 1- Draw and drink potion of Cat's Grace as defensively as possible. "Evasion tactics, Dylan!" 2- Start throwing javelins, then sling. Try to play the obstacles, but only make single moves. Plan B: Idealist Dreams :D If for some reason he's not mounted, ride over to him and start feinting and stabbing. 1- Draw sword, ride towards him. 2a- If he engages in melee, dismount and flank. 2b- If he runs away, take chase and use feint to stab whenever possible. Plan C: Working With Animals :rolleyes: If he's trying to stay distant on his horse, I'll never catch him on Dylan. No stabbing, and he'll outrange me with bow vs sling. So, if he plays hard to get, play back. Grap some cover and start hiding. Obviously that means ditching Dylan, who can GUARD a different structure within my view. We're hoping he'll come for a closer look. If he does, ambush him and flank with Dylan attacking. 1- dismount, send Dylan to guard, hide nearby using "improved cover" as per page 152phb to watch Lance. 2- Grab the sword and wait for it ... wait for it ... 30 ft for sneak attack 3- JAVELIN! "BITE HIM DYLAN!" then stabbing, until he escapes. Repeat. (get a javelin while near Dylan) If he won't take the bait (wait in hiding 1d4+4 rounds, tops) or finds me out before I can ambush, try this. Have Dylan start attacking, chasing him top speed. Meanwhile, Lorelei maneuvers on foot. How long can he evade BOTH of us? Run around, try to get at him, let Dylan chase him right to her. :mymy: She'll switch to sling for this. 4- Dylan takes chase, Lorelei runs in a strategic direction and takes cover watching Lance using improved cover, NOT HIDING (in fact, she'll try to keep his attention any way she can). Repeat as needed. 5- When Lorelei has Lance in a good position (50 ft or less) sling a bullet. If Dylan is being attacked and gets near death, have him break off. At this point, go back to hiding. :( 6- "Dylan, retreat!" Hide using improved cover, double move silently. 7- At 30" or less, sneak attack with sling. Furthermore: If I'm not obviously getting traunced... Use potion of Shield of Faith when Protection from Chaos ends. Use potions of Cure Light Wounds at half HP or lower If Lorelei wins, she can drop her home address on his limp body. Thank you very much for the running the fight. I hope you don't have to use my more tiresome maneuvering tactics
Jindl 10-20-04, 09:24 AM	On Tactics I for one am very glad that my last fight's pitlord had the foresight to determine, even before starting the fight, that I had no chance to succeed. And that he took it upon himself to save my character some money by having her not use a valuable item. Also, he seems to have attempted to save me embarrassment by editing out parts of my tactics for his fight post. Evidently, my tactics were so bad, or perhaps just too long, that he felt it would shame me for them to be seen. And while I do appreciate that jester, I think it's only fair to everyone else that I here present my complete tactics as sent, by the very word. -------------------------------------------------- Hey there Jindl! Long time no type. First, let's get this out of the way: cellerdwellar I have no objection at all to this, and in fact I feel it would be unfair not to. By all means, let's do what is needed to test our builds the way they were intended. That said, here are my somewhat lengthy tactics which would undoubtably have been simpler if he weren't a mounted archer. BTW, I wrote my tactics before reading this message, and left them unaltered. Intro: Approach Lance for introductions. Great him happily in elven with bright eyes looking him up and down. Lorelei asks him to write a song for her if she wins. In exchange she'll offer to let him ravish her if she loses. "I'll try to resist throwing the match." ;) no really, she winks. Start: Mounted, holding: Potion of Protection from Chaos, javelin 1st: Ride forward single move, use potion Pro. Chaos. 2nd: Ride towards him on full defense, trying to get a feel for his behavior. Plan A: Sticks and Stones If he's mounted, but he gets close enough to make use of Point Blank Shot. Go blow for blow with ranged weapons. 1- Draw and drink potion of Cat's Grace as defensively as possible. "Evasion tactics, Dylan!" 2- Start throwing javelins, then sling. Try to play the obstacles, but only make single moves. Plan B: Idealist Dreams :D If for some reason he's not mounted, ride over to him and start feinting and stabbing. 1- Draw sword, ride towards him. 2a- If he engages in melee, dismount and flank. 2b- If he runs away, take chase and use feint to stab whenever possible. Plan C: Working With Animals :rolleyes: If he's trying to stay distant on his horse, I'll never catch him on Dylan. No stabbing, and he'll outrange me with bow vs sling. So, if he plays hard to get, play back. Grap some cover and start hiding. Obviously that means ditching Dylan, who can GUARD a different structure within my view. We're hoping he'll come for a closer look. If he does, ambush him and flank with Dylan attacking. 1- dismount, send Dylan to guard, hide nearby using "improved cover" as per page 152phb to watch Lance. 2- Grab the sword and wait for it ... wait for it ... 30 ft for sneak attack 3- JAVELIN! "BITE HIM DYLAN!" then stabbing, until he escapes. Repeat. (get a javelin while near Dylan) If he won't take the bait (wait in hiding 1d4+4 rounds, tops) or finds me out before I can ambush, try this. Have Dylan start attacking, chasing him top speed. Meanwhile, Lorelei maneuvers on foot. How long can he evade BOTH of us? Run around, try to get at him, let Dylan chase him right to her. :mymy: She'll switch to sling for this. 4- Dylan takes chase, Lorelei runs in a strategic direction and takes cover watching Lance using improved cover, NOT HIDING (in fact, she'll try to keep his attention any way she can). Repeat as needed. 5- When Lorelei has Lance in a good position (50 ft or less) sling a bullet. If Dylan is being attacked and gets near death, have him break off. At this point, go back to hiding. :( 6- "Dylan, retreat!" Hide using improved cover, double move silently. 7- At 30" or less, sneak attack with sling. Furthermore: If I'm not obviously getting traunced... Use potion of Shield of Faith when Protection from Chaos ends. Use potions of Cure Light Wounds at half HP or lower If Lorelei wins, she can drop her home address on his limp body. Thank you very much for the running the fight. I hope you don't have to use my more tiresome maneuvering tactics @MCT - Um, I really didn't modify your tactics or edit them or anything like that. The sections in red above were not in the PM that I recieved from you. I don't know why those sections were missing. I wonder if it may have had something to do with the emoting that you were doing (because each missing section begins and ends with an emote). But I promise you that I didn't cut out these sections. I just cut/pasted your PM (as a single piece) to a Wordpad document, ran the fight, then cut/pasted the entire fight (as a single piece) onto the fights thread. I don't know enough about vbcode and the boards to know if the emoting could be the cause, but you might want to leave it out of your future tactics, just in case. As for this fight, I could rerun it using the complete tactics you have listed here, but it wouldn't be until tomorrow night, which would make you and cellardweller miss pairings. If you and cellardweller both want to do that, then I am willing to do so.
Bud Green 10-20-04, 03:58 PM	Hehe, wow that's really messed up (that part of the tactics were missing I mean - not the tactics themselves). Should we be wary of PMing tactics?
Jindl 10-20-04, 04:10 PM	Hehe, wow that's really messed up (that part of the tactics were missing I mean - not the tactics themselves). Should we be wary of PMing tactics? I would just leave the emotes out of the tactics. We've never had any problems with PM'd tactics before, so this seems to be an isolated case. Of course, you are welcome to email your tactics instead (or as well). -Jindl
Pitlords 10-20-04, 05:03 PM	Pairings done! Pitlords may begin running fights as soon as they received tactics Pitlords may begin running fights without tactics on saturday Fights due monday Late penalties on tuesday Credit changes: +5: Caterane +2: Zerone, SnarkHunter +1: Jindl -1: Cellardweller Levels 7, 9, 12, and 14 are uneven. If you want to ready a character to make it even, write a PM to the pitlord account. Thanks.
Ashenai 10-21-04, 10:13 AM	Um. What the heck is going on? Why are we not supposed to write anything in the "Comments/Concerns" thread?
Sindorin 10-21-04, 11:08 AM	Yes that seems a bit odd... what up?
Druid Roxors 10-21-04, 11:19 AM	Um. What the heck is going on? Why are we not supposed to write anything in the "Comments/Concerns" thread? Your mind tricks won't work on me!
MadCowTemplate 10-22-04, 10:55 AM	@ Jindl- Probably right about the emotes. Noted. I wasn't really concerned, I was just being sarcastic. Thanks for offering though. Despite my most recent emoting issues, I always pm my tactics unless I have specific knowledge the pitlord prefers e-mail. Whenever I click on a pitlord's name in the active list, my computer tries to open Microsoft Outlook, which I don't use and have never set up properly. It's annoying. The Union for Private Messaging would like to assure the public that pming is still the safest and most efficient mode of transportation in our fair city.
Sindorin 10-22-04, 11:41 AM	It's time for my weekly-annoying-what-if question. We allow a free spellbook for the wizard here in the arena. What if the wizard decides he doesn't want to do what every other wizard does, craft a Boccob's Blessed book? Can a wizard prepare his daily spells from more than one single book? 100 pages will make for a rather thin book as it is, let me tell you. What if Joe-Wizard decides to have a spell book for, say, each school of magic's spells that he knows? It is my understanding thus far that the reason we use Secret Page to craft a Boccob's book is because it makes it cheaper to scribe spells into a spellbook from a scroll. Is this really true in the long run? I am looking over Tair Malek and his possible spells in the future, and I am thinking since nearly half of the schools are prohibited for him because of his specialization/red wizard, he might not even need to chuck 8000 something gp out to craft a silly little book because he only will learn a few spells at every level from here on up. Oh well, I am probably going to make a new evoker in the next few weeks, and his race will kind of negate this query as he wouldn't be able to take levels in Red Wizard.
Magagumo 10-22-04, 01:48 PM	@Sindorin To my knowledge, you are more than welcome to use multiple spellbooks- not everyone has a Boccob's book and instead simply carries several volumes (a common reference in adventures as well- the wizard library).
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 10-23-04, 05:55 AM	Hi everyone :). Well, I have couple things to say; 1) Because of RL matters are messing up, I am unable to continue as pitlord (yeah, so I have only 2 odd credits here where I cannot spend anywhere :P). 2) Because I am unable to edit my char because of lack of credits, I will create new char to fill my gladiator combat lust :D.
Druid Roxors 10-24-04, 12:26 PM	The following issues have been voted on the Council of Elders (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4274508#post4274508) and are now official. These rules are to be implemented beginning next Wednesday, as such, any elders who feel their vote is inadequate or who has yet to vote can do so now. X 10 Round rule: 1 Abstain 3 Cummulative Rounds spent invulnerable are cumulative XI Bought allies resurrected for free: 4 Aye Unanimous, Bought allies resurrected for free. XII False Life Stacking 4 No Unanimous, No stacking, all are drained at the same time. XV Max Scroll/Powerstone CL/ML 2 Unlimited, 1 ECL + 2 All scrolls are allowed. (See #18) XVI Moh's Idea, Revisited (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=317010) 2 KerlanRayne's Suggestion, 1 Druid Roxor's Suggestion We will be working on seeing how we can implement it in the next couple of days. XVII Fights per Level (Cat's Suggestion) 3, 2 fights per level at level 17+ (pre-epic) Unanimous, gladiators require 2 fights to level-up at level 17 and beyond. XVIII Item cost increase 2 Increase to all consumables, 1 None 2, 5x increase and 10 charges. All consumables (Scrolls, Potions, Unguents, Tonics, Tanglebags, Thunderstones, etc) suffer a 5x price increase. Wands/Staves suffer no price change but their charges are reduced to 10 XIX Ceiling Reduction 2 To 50ft, 1 To 100ft The official ceiling is now 50ft high. Special maps and arrangements can still make for exceptions. The following Issues need revisiting: XIII Maze Spell [Re-voting, New option available] a. Caster loses for 10-round Invulnerability b. Target loses for 10-round Leaving unless he succeeds c. Target gets 10 rounds doing whatever he wants and then returns. d. Target gets 5 rounds doing whatever he wants and 5 attempting checks (auto-return still) e. Target gets 10 rounds attempting checks, no actions allowed. f. Leave as it is (up to 100 rounds) XIV Grappling While Mounted [Insufficient imput, please revisit and consense] a. Grapple normally, both are "mounted" b. Can't grapple at all, you need to get him out of the mount c. Grapple with Special rules? Suggest.
Kaigan 10-24-04, 02:05 PM	@Druid: I was just reading the rules that have been made. My character Enilias has bought 2 eagles, 1 pegasus, and 2 horses. Do I get them all back, since the 2 eagles, pegasus and a horse died?
Beldin 10-24-04, 02:37 PM	What happens to the scrolls/wands etc. which are already bought?
Ashenai 10-24-04, 03:05 PM	@Kaigan: Yes. All previously killed allies that were bought for money are now ressurrected for free. If you bought the same ally several times (for instance, your Light Warhorse died, so you bought another Light Warhorse), you can choose to trade in all but one of the newly ressurrected allies for a full refund. So, for instance, if you bought a Light Warhorse, it died, you bought another Light Warhorse, and that died, and then you bought a third Light Warhorse, and when that died as well, you bought a Heavy Warhorse, then you will now probably want to end up with a living Light Warhorse, a living Heavy Warhorse, and 300 gp (2 x 150) refunded. @Beldin: You can choose to keep them, in which case the new rules apply to them: the charges remaining in all your wands should be divided by 5 (rounded down), and all your 1-shot items cost 5x as much. Alternately, you can return any one-shot or charged items for a full refund. (If, say, you already used 23 charges out of a 50-charge Wand of CLW, you could either return it for a 405 gp refund--15 gp per charge--or you could keep it with 5 out of 10 charges remaining).
cellardweller 10-24-04, 10:40 PM	XVIII Item cost increase 2 Increase to all consumables, 1 None 2, 5x increase and 10 charges. All consumables (Scrolls, Potions, Unguents, Tonics, Tanglebags, Thunderstones, etc) suffer a 5x price increase. Wands/Staves suffer no price change but their charges are reduced to 10 Wizard spellbooks are going to get very expensive unless this is modified to include only in fight resources.
Ashenai 10-24-04, 10:52 PM	Wizard spellbooks are going to get very expensive unless this is modified to include only in fight resources. Indeed it does only include in-fight resources. Scrolls scribed into a wizard's spellbook and tomes that give inherent ability bonuses are still at normal price. So are x use/day items.
T'Var 10-24-04, 10:54 PM	so let it get expensive...its already unballenced to non-casters a cleric can cast 4 clws at 2nd lvl but a fighter cant even buy one if he wants armor and weapons...talk about giving casters an edge in early levels
Ashenai 10-24-04, 10:57 PM	Not to worry. The other changes that will be made will easily counterbalance this. All in all, pure spellcasters will find things much more challenging.
Ashenai 10-24-04, 11:38 PM	First of all, I edited my reply to Beldin. If you want to keep an old wand after the new rules go into effect, you don't have to deduct 40 charges; instead, divide the remaining number of charges by 5 (rounding down). Secondly, I propose that none of the changes take effect until the FAQ is fully updated. I don't think players should be expected to pore through the Tavern and/or the Council thread for rules changes. The FAQ should be up-to-date at all times. I volunteer to update the FAQ. This will also be a great opportunity to make it more newbie-friendly, as per Zerone's suggestion. If the Powers That Be (I suppose that would be WizO_Shadow right now) wish to take me up on it, and are willing to promptly update and re-update the FAQ (I foresee a large number of revisions), I'll send them PMs with the modified FAQ. Alternately (and IMO preferably), I could be given temporary access to the Pitlords account and update it myself. The FAQ has still not even been updated with the full pre-mem rules, even though we've had that rule for about 3 months now. To my mind, this is not acceptable, especially with the large number of important rules changes we're about to make.
Zerone 10-24-04, 11:54 PM	...Secondly, I propose that none of the changes take effect until the FAQ is fully updated. I don't think players should be expected to pore through the Tavern and/or the Council thread for rules changes. The FAQ should be up-to-date at all times. I volunteer to update the FAQ. This will also be a great opportunity to make it more newbie-friendly, as per Zerone's suggestion. If the Powers That Be (I suppose that would be WizO_Shadow right now) wish to take me up on it, and are willing to promptly update and re-update the FAQ (I foresee a large number of revisions), I'll send them PMs with the modified FAQ. Alternately (and IMO preferably), I could be given temporary access to the Pitlords account and update it myself. The FAQ has still not even been updated with the full pre-mem rules, even though we've had that rule for about 3 months now. To my mind, this is not acceptable, especially with the large number of important rules changes we're about to make. Well put. I could not agree more. If you need any help, you have only to ask. :) *•. Z
Sindorin 10-25-04, 02:10 AM	So basically there isn't any change yet for how many fights it takes to advance a level unless you are one of the few people that has a level 17+ character? Or did I read that wrong? Wow, I have two wizards... one of them, a level five, is a total scroll monkey, he retires with this new rule just because with change I like a fresh start. In my level 9's case though, what about all his scrolls listed in past expenses?
Pittbull 10-25-04, 02:24 AM	@Elders: Will the -2 mod. on leadership still aply, if my cohort is resurrected for free? @All: Is possible to add the abillity sunder(from psionic handbook) to a piercingweapon and sunder items with that?
Ashenai 10-25-04, 02:39 AM	So basically there isn't any change yet for how many fights it takes to advance a level unless you are one of the few people that has a level 17+ character? Or did I read that wrong? That is correct. If you're under level 17, it'll still take one fight to level. However, you will not be able to rememorize after every fight. Wow, I have two wizards... one of them, a level five, is a total scroll monkey, he retires with this new rule just because with change I like a fresh start. Yup, that's one of the main reasons for this change. Wizards using scrolls properly are really, really difficult to beat even at low levels, when they ought to be at their most vulnerable. Incidentally, you don't have to retire your level 5 if you don't want to... you can return all your scrolls for a full refund. You will just have to stop being so much of a scroll monkey with him in the future, after the change comes into effect. :) In my level 9's case though, what about all his scrolls listed in past expenses? You don't need to worry about that. Items that have been already used don't retroactively become more expensive. @Elders: Will the -2 mod. on leadership still aply, if my cohort is resurrected for free? Yes. You don't have to have your cohort ressurrected if you don't want to, but if it's ressurrected, your Leadership score takes the -2 penalty. @All: Is possible to add the abillity sunder(from psionic handbook) to a piercingweapon and sunder items with that? Nope. The weapon simply allows you use of the Improved Sunder feat, no more, no less, with the restriction that it can only be used on the opponent's weapons. Sunder still cannot be used with a piercing weapon... so while it is technically possible to add the Sundering ability to a piercing weapon, it won't do anything. :)
Zerone 10-25-04, 02:45 AM	That is correct. If you're under level 17, it'll still take one fight to level. However, you will not be able to rememorize after every fight. What exactly does this mean? Please spell it out for me... At what levels? When can we re-mem?, etc... Thanks, Zerone
Ashenai 10-25-04, 02:54 AM	We've decided to adopt KerlanRayne's suggestion. You can read the suggestion itself HERE (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=317010&origin=) (it's #4). There are still one or two questions about the precise implementation, but the gist of it is there. Every character must fight 3 fights before they can re-memorize (or regain spell slots or PSPs).
Zerone 10-25-04, 03:38 AM	Attn. Everyone: Regarding the new changes to the CoCo... How can a character gain a level and use their new abilities if they cannot rest to regain them? Say a spell caster gains a new spell slot, or even a new spell level from which they can cast, how do they gain these new abilities? If they won their last fight, they will rise a level and technically be on a lower level because they will not have their new abilities... also, how do they gain their new hit points, etc? These are some glaring holes in this new plan, unless I have missed something. Also, spellcasters have been dealt a double blow, now they have limited scroll and limited spell usage? What else does a spellcaster have? My brains run out but your strength does not. How is that fair? Leading to the next point... Do we still start with full hit points, or are they carried over from the previous battle? A fighter should not be able to use the same equipment fight to fight to make this fair, kind of a way for them to have to spend their money as spellcasters now have to (scrolls, wands, potions, etc.), and a limited spell usage. Arrows/bolts/etc. should cost x5 also, as they are 1 shot items... similar to the scroll/potion/etc., or is this already in there? To survive in this environment, a spellcaster must be willing to take several losses per win or have a multiclass spellcaster (more so at low levels). Every Psionics character has their PP's completely run down after 1 fight, what are they supposed to do then? I'd love to Pitlord the 3rd fight of the day between a wizard and a psion... "and for the 32 time in a row, he missed with his crossbow. This is amazing Bob, these guys couldn't hit the broad side of a barn!" "I know Ken, and those arrows are so costly with their x5 cost these days... ah, the power of Inflation!" Seriously, am I way off here, or am I on to something? :confused: *•. Z
Ashenai 10-25-04, 04:47 AM	Attn. Everyone: Regarding the new changes to the CoCo... Great questions! I've been thinking about some of these myself. Like I said, nothing's final yet, but here's how I'd hope to see these questions answered. :) How can a character gain a level and use their new abilities if they cannot rest to regain them? Say a spell caster gains a new spell slot, or even a new spell level from which they can cast, how do they gain these new abilities? If you gain a new spell slot, you can fill it for the next fight. This is actually Core for Wizards and Sorcerers, (Wizards can leave spell slots empty, then memorize them later). For Clerics and Druids, not so much, but I don't see it causing problems. If they won their last fight, they will rise a level and technically be on a lower level because they will not have their new abilities... also, how do they gain their new hit points, etc? They will have their new abilities. New hit points are gained normally; if we decide that gladiators aren't healed to max between battles (and I think it'd be better if they were healed), then if you get, for instance, 8 max hit points on gaining a level, you also heal 8 hit points. These are some glaring holes in this new plan, unless I have missed something. For sure, but they're holes that can be filled. :) Also, spellcasters have been dealt a double blow, now they have limited scroll and limited spell usage? What else does a spellcaster have? My brains run out but your strength does not. How is that fair? Er... well, it's exactly what happens in a real D&D campaign, isn't it? If you feel that's unfair, I guess your problem is with the D&D rules. I'd like to see the player that would complain to the DM: "It's not fair! We're usually fighting several battles a day, and the fighter gets to swing his sword every round, while I'll eventually run out of spells!" I agree with you that making scrolls more expensive and not allowing rememorization after every battle makes wizards (especially low-level ones) unviable, which is why I'd like to suggest a new rule: if you die, then you may (but don't have to) rememorize spells, in which cast your daily battle counter resets to 1. Note that this is not always advantageous; it can be an interesting strategic dillemma for the mage. Leading to the next point... Do we still start with full hit points, or are they carried over from the previous battle? I am for starting with full HPs, simply because the bother of keeping track of HPs might not be worth it, since healing is fairly cheap and abundant. With the new "consumables cost 5x as much" rule, however, healing is now a bit more expensive, and perhaps it would be worthwhile to consider not having gladiators healed to full HPs between battles. A fighter should not be able to use the same equipment fight to fight to make this fair, kind of a way for them to have to spend their money as spellcasters now have to (scrolls, wands, potions, etc.), and a limited spell usage. Why? It's a part of how the classes are balanced. Wizards are supposed to be balanced with fighters because although they have far more powerful abilities, they can't use them all the time. This is also why Sorcerers and Wizards are (more or less) balanced. Ever wonder why there are practically no Sorcerers in the arena? Arrows/bolts/etc. should cost x5 also, as they are 1 shot items... similar to the scroll/potion/etc., or is this already in there? It's not in the suggestion, but yes, I certainly agree. Also, non-permanent spells bought from NPCs (for putting into a Ring of Counterspells, for instance) should also have 5x the cost. To survive in this environment, a spellcaster must be willing to take several losses per win or have a multiclass spellcaster (more so at low levels). Every Psionics character has their PP's completely run down after 1 fight, what are they supposed to do then? Every Psionics character has their PPs depleted by the end of the fight because they can. If they have to economize a bit, we might start seeing more creative tactics than "Hide, buff with these 13 psionic abilities, then mow down opposition." Whether to buff or not will actually be a meaningful decision. In every fight with medium-to-high level Psions, the Psion only used up his PPs because he flung about powers without a care in the world, making the win more than a sure thing. Having to make tough decisions on what powers to spend PPs on and how many PPs to spend makes things interesting, balanced, and it's the way Psions are played in every D&D campaign I've ever seen. Also, mages have Pearls of Power, and Psions have Cognizance Crystals. Ever seen an Arena character use either of those? Ever wonder why not? (Or very rarely, anyway.) I'd love to Pitlord the 3rd fight of the day between a wizard and a psion... That'd probably be amusing... and the character with the better backup plan or the sense to economize on his first two fights would win. Which is as it should be. "and for the 32 time in a row, he missed with his crossbow. This is amazing Bob, these guys couldn't hit the broad side of a barn!" "I know Ken, and those arrows are so costly with their x5 cost these days... ah, the power of Inflation!" Heh. Well, normal arrows would still be of negligible cost. Seriously, am I way off here, or am I on to something? :confused: I don't see the problem. If you use up all your spells on your first two fights, you get punished for it. This is exactly what happens in a real campaign as well. Mages will have to learn to economize. I'm not that worried that mages will become unviable, to be honest. A competent, well-prepared mid-level mage has a 50% or better chance of winning a fight with just a single spell! Ditto for Psions. To be sure, direct damage options become less attractive, but again, that actually mirrors pen-and-paper D&D quite well. Perhaps this change will make it possible to have successful character concepts beyond the two types we currently have: "pure caster" and "anti-pure caster". I wouldn't mind that. Mages and Psions will still win plenty of fights, make no mistake about that. EDIT: Also, when we're used to this new system, I'd like to revisit the "half pre-mem" rule we used to have for casters. I think that was a really fun rule, and if mages are brought back into balance enough so that it won't be a problem, I'd like to see it reinstated, perhaps.
Magagumo 10-25-04, 09:06 AM	I think, Zerone & Ash, you guys have a great discussion going on here. I would state that arrows are not technically "one-shot," as much as they are ammunition. I think it would be terrible for us to start charging 5x on such an expenditure which could cripple archery at low levels (which is a form of fighter ;)) Also, I think fully healing would work best (avoiding the "iron man" syndrome" of a close fight crippling you for your next one... even in a campaign you would heal between battles), and that lose= reset is a great idea, Ash. I am curious as to the strategic benefits of not resetting the count, however? And yes, having recently started a new low-level campaign- I have a ranger, cleric, psychic warrior, and psion. The ranger and psi warrior are incredible beasts, often hitting (at 2nd/3rd level). Meanwhile, the cleric still sticks mostly to melee, reserving most spelsl for augmentation (Bless) or healing. And then the psion... who barely hits most days and has yet to get the truley amazing powers. I know he'll be a dominating factor, one day, but at low-levels it is the fighter-types that are functioning consistently. I would like to see the same happen here. Finally- I'd stick to full-mem for now, as the whole point of the half-mem was to allow you to surprise your opponent. Well, if one-shots are near unusable, the fighter-types really can't compensate for a surprise... frankly, I've enjoyed the full-mem, it doesn't seem to have crippled us casters terribly much.
Ashenai 10-25-04, 11:47 AM	I think, Zerone & Ash, you guys have a great discussion going on here. I would state that arrows are not technically "one-shot," as much as they are ammunition. Well, to me it seems kind of arbitrary to make one-shot magic items more expensive, nut not one-shot items such as arrows (especially magic arrows). But I'm not really worried about this; magic arrows are kind of underpowered in D&D anyway. I could accept us going either way with this, though I feel it's simply more logical to make ammo more expensive as well. I think it would be terrible for us to start charging 5x on such an expenditure which could cripple archery at low levels (which is a form of fighter :)) Er, I dunno... for 20gp, you'd still get 100 arrows. Not exactly a crippling cost. :) I am curious as to the strategic benefits of not resetting the count, however? Imagine that you're a level 4 mage. You won battle 1/3, and lost battle 2/3. You still have some spells left. You have two options. 1) Go for fight 3/3! You still have some spells left, and maybe you'll get lucky... and whether you do or not, you'll get to fully rememorize for the fight after that. 2) Reset your counter and rememorize. Sure, you'll have a full complement of spells for the next fight (fight 1/3), but you won't get to re-memorize for three more fights in all. If it were my mage, and I thought I could pobably win fight #3 even with my limited spell selection, I'd certainly go for it. It'd mean that not only would I win fight #3, but I'd probably win the fight after that, too, with my full spell selection!
Bud Green 10-25-04, 12:42 PM	1. Magical ammo is not, strictly speaking, one-shot, since it can be retrieved. It is expendable - but not necessarily in one shot. 2. While the price of mundane arrows would still be negligible, the price of magical arrows would be incredibly prohibitive. Over 10,000 gold for 50 +1 and over 40,000 gold for 50 +2 arrows is just ludicrous IMO. Potions/scrolls were underpriced to begin with, and were not meant to be used every battle (hence the 5x rule in the DMG). Magical ammo is overpriced to begin with, and is to be used every battle. 3. Arrow prices should bear some relationship with bow prices (and bullets to slings, etc). Generally you are already better off buying a magic bow than the corresponding magic arrows. Artificially inflating arrows to cost 5x more than the bow will simply seal the deal. It guarantees nobody will ever again buy magic ammo. Not the intent - but I think it would be the result.
Ashenai 10-25-04, 12:55 PM	1. Magical ammo is not, strictly speaking, one-shot, since it can be retrieved. It is expendable - but not necessarily in one shot. Well, it can only be retrieved (sometimes) if it misses; similarly, a scroll will not be expended if the caster level check for it fails. 2. While the price of mundane arrows would still be negligible, the price of magical arrows would be incredibly prohibitive. Over 10,000 gold for 50 +1 and over 40,000 gold for 50 +2 arrows is just ludicrous IMO. Potions/scrolls were underpriced to begin with, and were not meant to be used every battle (hence the 5x rule in the DMG). Magical ammo is overpriced to begin with, and is to be used every battle. Agreed. 3. Arrow prices should bear some relationship with bow prices (and bullets to slings, etc). Generally you are already better off buying a magic bow than the corresponding magic arrows. Artificially inflating arrows to cost 5x more than the bow will simply seal the deal. It guarantees nobody will ever again buy magic ammo. Not the intent - but I think it would be the result. Yes, that does sound convincing. I still think it's more logical to apply the same cost modifications to arrows as to scrolls and potions, but your arguments have convinced me that it's probably not better. (Incidentally, in a real D&D campaign, nobody does buy magic ammo, with very few exceptions. But I don't think that's a good thing.)
SnarkHunter 10-25-04, 01:20 PM	This will make the 17th level fights intresting indeed. 3 fights before remem. And 2 fight wins to level. Well lets see how it goes.
Bud Green 10-25-04, 01:27 PM	(Incidentally, in a real D&D campaign, nobody does buy magic ammo, with very few exceptions. But I don't think that's a good thing.) To quibble just for the sake of quibbling, in many real campaigns magic items are not readily available for sale. Magic arrows might be bought simply because they can be. Otherwise, they are not bought precisely because they are already overpriced. Who wants to buy an expendable resource when a permanent item that does the same thing can be had for the same price? If ammo was priced reasonably (say a -1 base price adjustment), then it would become attractive and people would actually buy it. But I doubt that would fly here, especially since the mages already perceive they have just been bent over and put-to.
Ashenai 10-25-04, 01:35 PM	If ammo was priced reasonably (say a -1 base price adjustment), then it would become attractive and people would actually buy it. But I doubt that would fly here, especially since the mages already perceive they have just been bent over and put-to. I wouldn't agree to it, simply because it isn't Core. All the rules modifications we've accepted so far, (with the single exception of banning Gate) have some basis in the Core Rules, or are purely "arena rules" which are not addressed by the rulebooks (such as ceiling height, or the 16-hour prebuff thing). I would not be in favour of any "house-rulish" changes; they take away from our credibility as the Core Coliseum. The price of magical arrows is stated unequivocally in the DMG; the rule books do not support making them any cheaper at all. Luckily, the DMG rule that says expendable magic items should cost 5x as much in a "single adventure" say nothing about magical arrows, so we're welcome to interpret it as applying to arrows or not, as we choose. But there's no Core provision for making arrows any cheaper, unfortunately.
Bud Green 10-25-04, 01:43 PM	I concur. Question - Is a mundane arrow fired from a +1 bow considered magic for the purposes of defeating x/magic DR?
Ashenai 10-25-04, 01:49 PM	Question - Is a mundane arrow fired from a +1 bow considered magic for the purposes of defeating x/magic DR? Yes. From the SRD: Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies. Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).
Caterane 10-25-04, 07:51 PM	Choose your weapon… Hoof and Arrow (The Solstice vs Sylvy) Fist and Magic (Ex Nihilo vs Jin Szen) Sword and Force (Paul Hector vs Tair Malek) Fire and Club (Corinthus vs Donkey)
Sindorin 10-25-04, 08:24 PM	Thanks for running the fight, Cat. What would you suggest I do to fight against that?
Caterane 10-25-04, 08:34 PM	High initiative. Prebuffs, especially contingency (mirror image on starting signal). And why don't you have a cohort? You have leadership! The cohort might win ini even if you lose, and do something against a first round assault. Like readying vs approach, or vs spellcasting, etc. Against a pegasus... cast fly, and fly behind it. The pegasus has average maneuverability and would need 3 rounds to turn to you. That's from the top of my head. There are surely more counters.
Sindorin 10-25-04, 09:06 PM	How do I get prebuffs? I did have a cohort but i didn't like it so i was going to make a new one but ran out of time.
Caterane 10-25-04, 09:10 PM	Every spell that lasts 16 hours or longer can be cast before the battle.
Sindorin 10-25-04, 09:16 PM	lol thanks, i never had bothered with them because I wasn't sure how they worked, I actually thought that 11 hour spells could be cast beforehand... Oh well, Tair gets a week off while I tinker with him, I suppose... I might even retire him though, I have been talking about doing that forever.
Myrridin 10-25-04, 11:25 PM	Wow, those high level fights are a joke to read. Cast Temporal Stasis, kill opponent. *sigh* What an exciting fight.
SnarkHunter 10-26-04, 12:30 AM	Boy are they. I think I'll make a new lev 2 char and relive the glory days.
Pittbull 10-26-04, 03:06 AM	@Myrridin: Hey, nice to see you, back again. :) @Cat: Very nice: Initiative: Corintenkacker: 6+12 = 18 Donkmeister: 3+7 = 10 @ Elders: Please help me! Angosh lost his level 17 fight! What do I have to do now? Does Mini-Me get his spells back? Is there a possibility to change the spells? That's quite important, because if we would have known that this change will occur, my tactic for this senseless fight, would have been totally different. @Cat: Oh, yeah! Thank you for using the disjunction, now I have to alter my whole charactersheet! :rant: @ Snark: Thank for modding the fight! I know, it was truly not the most exiting one! ;)
Ashenai 10-26-04, 03:41 AM	@Myrridin: Hey, nice to see you, back again. :) @ Elders: Please help me! Angosh lost his level 17 fight! What do I have to do now? Does Mini-Me get his spells back? Is there a possibility to change the spells? That's quite important, because if we would have known that this change will occur, my tactic for this senseless fight, would have been totally different. Mini-Me will definitely get his spells back, no question about that. The only thing we're arguing about is whether he (and all other casters) will get their spells/PSPs back after the next fight. In other words, are we starting the new "3 fights per day" system this week, or not? @Cat: Oh, yeah! Thank you for using the disjunction, now I have to alter my whole charactersheet! :rant: Disjunction sucks. Sorry, man. :(
Magagumo 10-26-04, 09:16 AM	Errr... Angosh? All of your buffs and items were restored, were they not? I was udner the impression that would be, and suggest that they remain restored. No need to change your whole char thanks to that lovely, yet brutal, spell.
Pittbull 10-26-04, 09:26 AM	No need to change your whole char thanks to that lovely, yet brutal, spell. I thought, when a permanent enlarge is dispelled, it's gone for ever. The equipment of course will be fixed again.
Jindl 10-26-04, 11:16 AM	I thought, when a permanent enlarge is dispelled, it's gone for ever. The equipment of course will be fixed again. That is correct. Permanent spells are gone forever when they are dispelled/disjoined/etc.
Druid Roxors 10-26-04, 11:25 AM	I, too, was under the impression that permanent spells are restored at the end of the fight. (and is yet another punch on warriors.)
Pittbull 10-26-04, 12:57 PM	One Elder says this, one Elder says that! What is right now? Jindl, if you and me are realy right, I have to change almost my whole character-sheet, which is quite a bunch of work. So please all Elders, dicuss it and give me enough time to fix it before pairings. Thanks a lot!
SnarkHunter 10-26-04, 01:38 PM	This is what studying Zen Buddhism leads to. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4695709#post4695709) Yo Barrel, if you want to ready the Pally I can get Evram up to speed.
Caterane 10-26-04, 02:55 PM	I think permanent spells should stay as they are very expensive and a necessity for fighters. Permanent see invisibility for 6000 a piece is not very economical when it is dispelled every other fight. Wizards can of course just scribe a scroll or two for 500, or just memorize it a second time. We also shouldn't rush into the new 3 fights rule. We lived so long without it, now it doesn't matter if we take a little more time to discuss the specific rules. Perhaps we should open a new thread or continue an old one where one summarizes the rules. What are these new buttons about? Manacost, Card, and Glossary? Test Test 2 Test 3
Druid Roxors 10-26-04, 03:10 PM	Questions: A buff that lasts all day will last all 3 fights correct? All items previously spent are not deducted from our gold stash right? All current items on our inventory are to be removed (for a full re-fund) or their cost multiplied by 5? Permanent spells (IE, programed image) is not carried on from fight to fight right? Spell lists are not carried on but Re-memorized with less slots right? (I got 3 fireballs and spent two, next level I got 1 slot I can fill with fly and the other fireball I had I can re-fill with haste right?)
Bud Green 10-26-04, 03:11 PM	What are these new buttons about? Manacost, Card, and Glossary? Sounds like something for Magic: The Gathering. Counterspell (it no worky)
Druid Roxors 10-26-04, 03:11 PM	What are these new buttons about? Manacost, Card, and Glossary? Test Test 2 Test 3Something about "Magic the Gathering" I presume. :confused: fireball remove soul fireball
barrel_master 10-26-04, 03:14 PM	This is what studying Zen Buddhism leads to. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4695709#post4695709) Yo Barrel, if you want to ready the Pally I can get Evram up to speed. Unfortunately, I'll be having Peter take a go at it this week... and we've already made arangement with Jindle and Mag over it.
Jindl 10-26-04, 03:39 PM	One Elder says this, one Elder says that! What is right now? Jindl, if you and me are realy right, I have to change almost my whole character-sheet, which is quite a bunch of work. So please all Elders, dicuss it and give me enough time to fix it before pairings. Thanks a lot! Pittbull - The rule is as I stated. It was not reached by arbitrary decision, but by an indepth conversation of the GM's/Elders at the time. One of the many reasons it was implemented was because permanent spell effects are cheaper than the equivalent magic items (look at a permanent greater magic fang vs an amulet of natural attacks as one of many examples). Not to mention that they don't take up a slot on the body and have a much higher caster level to dispel. To even the score, we decided to enforce the Core rule that permanent magical effects are lost when dispelled. -Jindl
Zerone 10-26-04, 04:19 PM	If a character is ECL 12, has a 10 Cha, has LA +3, and they have the Leadership feat, at what level is the Leadership for Character Level, 9 or 12? Thanks for your help! :D *•. Z
Kaigan 10-26-04, 07:14 PM	Just wanted to let everyone know that Eiletha is being bumped as it is her third loss in a row.
SnarkHunter 10-26-04, 09:53 PM	If a character is ECL 12, has a 10 Cha, has LA +3, and they have the Leadership feat, at what level is the Leadership for Character Level, 9 or 12? Thanks for your help! :D *•. Z We've ruled in the arena that ECL is important for Leadership, not CL. SO with an ECL of 12 and no other modifiers you could attract a cohort of up to 8th level.
Jindl 10-27-04, 01:30 AM	@Elders: Will the -2 mod. on leadership still aply, if my cohort is resurrected for free? Yes. You don't have to have your cohort ressurrected if you don't want to, but if it's ressurrected, your Leadership score takes the -2 penalty. Ashenai is incorrect. The -2 penalty for caused the death of a cohort has not ever been and is not applied in the CoCo. Cohorts have always been given a true resurrection for free. By the same token, no modifiers to Leadership score are applied for special power, fairness and generosity, great renown, failure, aloofness, or cruelty. The only modifiers that apply are: -2 has a familiar, special mount, or animal companion. -1 recruits a cohort of a different alignment. -Jindl
Ashenai 10-27-04, 02:05 AM	Ashenai is incorrect. The -2 penalty for caused the death of a cohort has not ever been and is not applied in the CoCo. Yes, Jindl is correct. I misunderstood the question.
Pittbull 10-27-04, 02:27 AM	Permanent Enlarge :weep: ! Leadership :D ! Thanks! Edit: Puh! Angosh has been rebuild and is ready for this week!
Beldin 10-27-04, 07:04 AM	All consumables ( Scrolls , Potions, Unguents, Tonics, Tanglebags, Thunderstones, etc) suffer a 5x price increase. What happens to all the scrolls which wizard's already bought and scribed into their spellbooks?
Ashenai 10-27-04, 07:42 AM	Not increased in cost, for two reasons: 1) Wizards buying scrolls to scribe into their spellbooks only have to pay normal price. Generally, any item with a PERMANENT effect only costs normal price, even if it is one-use. This includes scrolls bought to scribe into one's spellbook, and Tomes of +Ability. 2) The change is only retroactive to a point. Equipment you still have is affected; you can choose to pay the extra 4x cost, or you can return it for a full refund. However, equipment you've already used up is not affected. (At least, this is my take on it, if anyone disagrees, do say so).
SnarkHunter 10-27-04, 10:12 AM	For my part I'd like to see the two new rules implemented for this weeks pairings. Maybe you haven't noticed but the higher level fights are getting pretty degenerate.
Ashenai 10-27-04, 10:40 AM	Okay, implement them for level 17+ fights, then. Or even level 13+, or maybe, maybe even level 7+. But let's leave the newbies alone until it's in the FAQ. Maybe you haven't noticed but the higher level fights are getting pretty degenerate. D&D itself gets pretty degenerate from level 17. But yeah, I know what you mean.
Sindorin 10-27-04, 10:57 AM	Perhaps not expensive, just much less filled. It will become annoying when we spend more than what it takes to buy medium wonderous items just to be able to cast a spell. Whenever a new spell level becomes available you get two free ones; I foresee a spell book with two spells per levels beyond the first. Once all these rules take full effect, I think I'll make a new wizard to see how things hold up... We may see quite a few of them springing up once again to test the new limitations...
Jindl 10-27-04, 10:59 AM	AFAIK - The 5x cost for one-shots and charged items is in effect now. This would mean that a brand new brooch of shielding has can absorb only 20 pts of damage, correct?
T'Var 10-27-04, 11:03 AM	AFAIK - The 5x cost for one-shots and charged items is in effect now. This would mean that a brand new brooch of shielding has can absorb only 20 pts of damage, correct? I wouldnt think so, a brooch has no charges and isnt one-shot it has points that are used up but that is very different than a charge and would be yet another notch that gives casters far to great an edge remember a charge must be activated by a command word and the brooch has no such requirement
Jindl 10-27-04, 11:11 AM	The price of magical arrows is stated unequivocally in the DMG; the rule books do not support making them any cheaper at all. Luckily, the DMG rule that says expendable magic items should cost 5x as much in a "single adventure" say nothing about magical arrows, so we're welcome to interpret it as applying to arrows or not, as we choose. But there's no Core provision for making arrows any cheaper, unfortunately. The discussion prior to the Elder vote did include ammunition as a charged item (a stack of 50 magical arrows becomes a stack of 10 magical arrows). Since this is part of what the Elder's voted on, you can't change your "interpretation" on this without having the Elder's vote again. In the meantime, ammuntion is part of the new rule. I'll also point out that not one character has ever bought magical arrows up until now, so I don't think its really that big of an issue.
T'Var 10-27-04, 11:12 AM	this ruling is actually very important, as if the brooch is now considered effected by the limited charge ruling ill be refunding mine and getting another item
Ashenai 10-27-04, 11:46 AM	That is correct. However, unlike wands (which work fine in a fihgt even if they only have 10 charges), a Brooch of Shielding with only 20 charges will fall from a single Magic Missile. The point of items having less charges is not to make them less useful in combat; it's to have them not last for so many combats. For this reason, I propose that there be two options for buying Brooches of Shielding: 1) 20 charges, costing 1500 gp. 2) 101 charges, costing 7500 gp. And, again, I think it's a horrible idea to enact a complex rule without including it in the FAQ first. We have had full pre-mem for about three months now, and the FAQ still has it wrong. I offered my help. What else will it take to finally fix the FAQ???
Jindl 10-27-04, 11:46 AM	For this reason, I propose that there be two options for buying Brooches of Shielding: 1) 20 charges, costing 1500 gp. 2) 101 charges, costing 7500 gp. Agreed.
Kaigan 10-27-04, 02:08 PM	At all, I regret to inform you all, but this will be my last week in the CoCo. I have many reasons to why I'm leaving, but the main ones are that I'm really busy. Midterms in university suck, and finals are coming up, so school comes first. Another reason is that I don't like some of the new rules that are being implemented. It's not that I don't understand them, it's just that I don't like them. I was part of the CoCo, when it was still in the Character Optimization forum, and I really enjoyed it there, and yes, new rules needed to be implemented. But lately they have become really complex, and I believe some are uneccessary, but those are just my oppinions. I had a great time, and hopefully Enilias, and Eiletha will get one last fight. I hope the rest of you have a great time in this ever involving game, and good luck in the future. Kaigan
Bud Green 10-27-04, 02:32 PM	So Brooch of Shielding is to be affected even though it is neither a one-shot nor a charged item. That seems a bit arbitrary. Any other such items affected? Also, how is a necklace of fireballs affected? Dividing up it's charges would be clunky. Should it just cost 5x and have full charges? Or is it not to be considered a charged item?
Ashenai 10-27-04, 02:53 PM	The rule is simple: Anything that can permanently "run out" and become useless is a charged item. Kaigan: I'm really sorry to see you go, and I hope you'll be back. I liked your characters. Which rules don't you agree with, exactly, and why?
Magagumo 10-27-04, 03:39 PM	D&D itself gets pretty degenerate from level 17. But yeah, I know what you mean. Uh oh ;). Snark's character in RL Malign campaign just hit 17th level, and the Saint has been artificially there for awhile... I will say that Polymorph any Object (via Trickery Domain) is fairly ridiculous ^_~. It was a rude surprise to see it creeping up on Bruno this week as well.... but at least Peter ain't a Leonal *sigh*
Bud Green 10-27-04, 03:41 PM	Ash, is this the Elder's custom definition or are you getting it from the DMG or SRD? Looking at the DMG 214 (same text as SRD), I'm not seeing that, but perhaps there is a definition elsewhere of charged items. By your definition, do Manuals and Tomes also cost 5x? I wouldn't think so because, even though the Manual or Tome becomes mundane once read, it's effect is permanent. Also, the prices of those items are already plenty steep.
Zerone 10-27-04, 04:00 PM	That is correct. However, unlike wands (which work fine in a fihgt even if they only have 10 charges), a Brooch of Shielding with only 20 charges will fall from a single Magic Missile. The point of items having less charges is not to make them less useful in combat; it's to have them not last for so many combats. For this reason, I propose that there be two options for buying Brooches of Shielding: 1) 20 charges, costing 1500 gp. 2) 101 charges, costing 7500 gp. I understand your point, but we cannot have diffferent rules governing different magic items. They must all follow the same rules to keep things basic and fair. And, again, I think it's a horrible idea to enact a complex rule without including it in the FAQ first. We have had full pre-mem for about three months now, and the FAQ still has it wrong. I offered my help. What else will it take to finally fix the FAQ??? I completely agree. My offer to help is still on the table and the pre-mem thing caused 1 of many questions that I had a month ago, all of which should have been answered in the FAQ and not in the Tavern from me asking the questions... *•. Z
Jindl 10-27-04, 04:36 PM	By your definition, do Manuals and Tomes also cost 5x? I wouldn't think so because, even though the Manual or Tome becomes mundane once read, it's effect is permanent. Also, the prices of those items are already plenty steep. By "permanently run out", Ash was referring to the magic item and its effects. Since manuals/tomes of +ability score have permanent effects, they are not considered one shots. Manuals of Golems also have permanent effects and would not be counted as one shots. Charged items are defined under item creation pricing guidelines as items that have a specific number of uses before permenantly being destroyed. A brooch of shielding falls under this definition, as would a rod of absorption, a scarab of protection, and other similar items. We have expanded this to include stacks of ammunition (like the previously mentioned 50x +1 arrows). @Zerone - We do have a unifying rule for charged items. They can either be purchased at normal price with 1/5th the number of charges, or be purchased at 5x price with the full number of charges. This applies to all charged items. In cases where it cannot be divided up simply (like the necklace of fireballs that Bud Green mentioned), then you must use the 5x price with the full number of charges option. If the option to use 1/5th the number of charges is used, the number of charges is rounded down (minimum of 1). -Jindl
Bud Green 10-27-04, 05:03 PM	Gotcha. Thanks. If the-powers-that-be decide to take these guys up on their generous offer to update the FAQ, I recommend you put that post in there, since the definition of charged items is kind of buried in the rules (just looking up 'charges of magic items' in the index will not get you there). The more comprehensively you spell things out, the better.
SnarkHunter 10-27-04, 05:25 PM	*snip* Charged items are defined under item creation pricing guidelines as items that have a specific number of uses before permenantly being destroyed. A brooch of shielding falls under this definition, as would a rod of absorption, a scarab of protection, and other similar items. We have expanded this to include stacks of ammunition (like the previously mentioned 50x +1 arrows). *snip* One question Re the scarab: It has two benifits, a charged one and a constant one (SR:20). How exactly can one seperate the two?
Captain Mutilate 10-27-04, 06:36 PM	Hello everyone, it's me again. After a little time off I figured I may as well come back. I don't plan on pitlording however I will be polishing up a character which will be in circulation by next Wednesday. I look forward to rulesmongering with you all again, I'm sure it will be most enjoyable. :P I'll be checking out this week's fights, The Capn
Pitlords 10-27-04, 06:43 PM	Pairings done! Fights can be run without tactics on saturday Late penalties on tuesday Credit changes: +3: Caterane +2: Ashenai, Zerone, T'Var +1: Jindl -1: Magagumo
Jindl 10-27-04, 06:47 PM	One question Re the scarab: It has two benifits, a charged one and a constant one (SR:20). How exactly can one seperate the two? You cannot seperate the two. Both options are still available to you (fully charged at 5x cost, or normal price at 1/5th charges). Either way, you are overpaying a bit for the extra ability. Since we cannot seperate the two, that is the way it has to be. -Jindl
Captain Mutilate 10-27-04, 07:07 PM	Regarding the pairings: If I can get my character up in the next, say, hour... (he's ECL 3 as I see I have 3 credits left.. may as well use them) could he be paired with poor Karl? Poor communists always get left out in the cold. :P
Caterane 10-27-04, 07:11 PM	@Mutilate: Of course. Ready your character. Send a link to the pitlord account (including your win/loss record if any) @all: there are still a lot of PCs sitting out. If you have one of your characters at one of these levels and can ready him to make it even this would be cool.
Zerone 10-27-04, 11:29 PM	Ogre characters possess the following racial traits. • +10 Strength, –2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, –4 Intelligence, –4 Charisma. • Large size. –1 penalty to Armor Class, –1 penalty on attack rolls, –4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters. • Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet. • An ogre’s base land speed is 40 feet. • Darkvision out to 60 feet. • Racial Hit Dice: An ogre begins with four levels of giant, which provide 4d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +3, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +1, and Will +1. • Racial Skills: An ogre’s giant levels give it skill points equal to 7 x (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Climb, Listen, and Spot. • Racial Feats: An ogre’s giant levels give it two feats. • Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An ogre is automatically proficient with simple weapons, martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields. • +5 natural armor bonus. • Automatic Languages: Common, Giant. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Orc, Goblin, Terran. • Favored Class: Barbarian. • Level adjustment +2. I have several question for the information above, and some that relate to the information above: 1. An Ogre character could start out as an ECL 6 with no class level or ECL 7 with 1 class level. Can they start out at ECL 8 or higher if you paid more credits? 2. For an ECL 6 Ogre, they can have a Max Rank of 7 (4 Hit Die +3) in any skill, or 3.5 in a CC skill, correct? 3. It receives the 2 feats for the Level 1 and Level 3 hit die, and a +1 Ability Modifier for the Level 4 hit die, correct? 4. If I choose a race other than the ones with this nice and neet layout, say Ettercap, how do I know their racial skills vs. CC skills? 5. With the Ettercap, do you maximize the 1st racial hit die and then not the 1st class hit die? Or, if they start out at ECL 10 (5 HD, +4 LA, +1 Class), could you choose which to Maximize (the 1st Racial or the 1st Class Hit die)? That's all I can think of for now. Thanks for any help! :D *•. Zerone
SnarkHunter 10-28-04, 12:21 AM	Having brought an Ogre character to 17th level before utterly abandoning him I feel qualified to answer this. I have several question for the information above, and some that relate to the information above: 1. An Ogre character could start out as an ECL 6 with no class level or ECL 7 with 1 class level. Can they start out at ECL 8 or higher if you paid more credits? Any monstrous creature must start at the minimum possible ECL. So for the Ogre that's ECL 6 w/ no Class levels. 2. For an ECL 6 Ogre, they can have a Max Rank of 7 (4 Hit Die +3) in any skill, or 3.5 in a CC skill, correct? Correct. 3. It receives the 2 feats for the Level 1 and Level 3 hit die, and a +1 Ability Modifier for the Level 4 hit die, correct? FEats yes. Were not eintierly sure about the Ability Modifier actually, but I'm of the opinion that previous ability modifiers from old HD have been included in the racial stat mods. 4. If I choose a race other than the ones with this nice and neet layout, say Ettercap, how do I know their racial skills vs. CC skills? Any skill they have ranks in are considered to be class skills. The Ettercap (to use your example) appears to have ranks in Craft hide Listen and Spot. Since they have a str mod of 2 and a +8 racial mod It looks like they don't actually have any ranks in climb. 5. With the Ettercap, do you maximize the 1st racial hit die and then not the 1st class hit die? Or, if they start out at ECL 10 (5 HD, +4 LA, +1 Class), could you choose which to Maximize (the 1st Racial or the 1st Class Hit die)? If your making the Ettercap a playable character then yes you would max the 1st racial die. That's all I can think of for now. Thanks for any help! :D *•. Zerone My pleasure.
Kaigan 10-28-04, 02:55 AM	@all: You know, I may just stick around a little longer. I guess having one character active at a time isn't too hard.
Caterane 10-28-04, 04:45 AM	@all: You know, I may just stick around a little longer. I guess having one character active at a time isn't too hard. WOOHOO!! :)
Jindl 10-28-04, 10:07 AM	FEats yes. Were not eintierly sure about the Ability Modifier actually, but I'm of the opinion that previous ability modifiers from old HD have been included in the racial stat mods. There was some discussion about this. The consensus was that you do NOT get ability score boosts for the starting racial HD. Any skill they have ranks in are considered to be class skills. The Ettercap (to use your example) appears to have ranks in Craft hide Listen and Spot. Since they have a str mod of 2 and a +8 racial mod It looks like they don't actually have any ranks in climb. It's actually even simpler than that. Whatever skills are listed in the monster entry are considered class skills. So even though your math may show that the ettercap doesn't have any ranks in climb, because the skill is listed in the monster entry, it is a class skill. -Jindl
T'Var 10-28-04, 10:30 AM	if you start a char at a higher ECL like an Ogre does your starting cash go up? or do you still only get 1000 gold to begin with?
Ashenai 10-28-04, 10:37 AM	Your starting cash goes up, as appropriate for your ECL. Just as an aside, has anyone considered that our system of cash gains per level is not very Core (and not too fair, either)? The way it works now, a character who starts at ECL 8 will always have more gold than a character who got to ECL 8 by fighting, because the total amount of money is the same, but the character starting at ECL 8 has no past expenditures. The Dungeon Master's Guide agrees with me here: if you look at the "Behind the Curtain" table on page 54, you'll note that the "Treasure per Character" column has higher numbers than the "Expected Wealth Gain" column, for exactly this reason. Clearly, it'd be a lot more fair to have a character start with the Expected Wealth Gain for his ECL, but then gain money according to the "Treasure per Character" column. This would raise most characters' money by about 10%.
Jindl 10-28-04, 10:46 AM	if you start a char at a higher ECL like an Ogre does your starting cash go up? or do you still only get 1000 gold to begin with? You start with the amount of cash you would have if you had won your way up from 2nd level. So at ECL 6, you would start with: 1000 + 1700 + 2700 + 3600 = 9000 gp (2nd) + (3rd) + (4th) + (5th)
T'Var 10-28-04, 10:48 AM	Your starting cash goes up, as appropriate for your ECL. Just as an aside, has anyone considered that our system of cash gains per level is not very Core (and not too fair, either)? The way it works now, a character who starts at ECL 8 will always have more gold than a character who got to ECL 8 by fighting, because the total amount of money is the same, but the character starting at ECL 8 has no past expenditures. ok, didnt quite answer the question. starting at ECL2 you get 1000 gp but if you started at ECL 3 would to get 1700gp or 2700 gp? total combined money or just what that lvl gets?
Ashenai 10-28-04, 10:49 AM	Total combined money. 2700 gp at ECL 3.
Jindl 10-28-04, 10:50 AM	Just as an aside, has anyone considered that our system of cash gains per level is not very Core (and not too fair, either)? The way it works now, a character who starts at ECL 8 will always have more gold than a character who got to ECL 8 by fighting, because the total amount of money is the same, but the character starting at ECL 8 has no past expenditures. The Dungeon Master's Guide agrees with me here: if you look at the "Behind the Curtain" table on page 54, you'll note that the "Treasure per Character" column has higher numbers than the "Expected Wealth Gain" column, for exactly this reason. Clearly, it'd be a lot more fair to have a character start with the Expected Wealth Gain for his ECL, but then gain money according to the "Treasure per Character" column. This would raise most characters' money by about 10%. Yes, it was considered and discussed a long time ago, back when MO was the only GM. We kept it the way it is now because it offsets the fact that normal adventurers have to spend a lot more resources to go up a level than those who only have to win a single fight. Also, in order to keep PC's at the appropriate wealth per level, we would effectively be replacing expendables for free, and that is certainly a bad idea (it would lead to more abuse of powerful one-shots).
Caterane 10-28-04, 12:28 PM	Btw, Kaigan had birthday 2 days ago! Happy Birthday Kaigan!!
Ashenai 10-28-04, 12:51 PM	Also, in order to keep PC's at the appropriate wealth per level, we would effectively be replacing expendables for free, and that is certainly a bad idea (it would lead to more abuse of powerful one-shots). No, you misunderstand... I didn't think that if a character wins a fight, his wealth should be set to the expected wealth for his level... I just meant that instead of the 1000-1700-2700-3600-4000 etc progression, perhaps it would be better to have an 1000-2000-3000-4000-5333 progression. Your other point is valid, though, and one of the reasons I thought we should use the 5x cost modification.
Kaigan 10-28-04, 02:07 PM	thanks cat. Yay, i'm 18 now. but i don't feel it lol
T'Var 10-28-04, 02:19 PM	18 sucks....legaly responsable for your own actions but ya still cant buy beer
T'Var 10-28-04, 03:39 PM	question about cohorts and the CoCo when you lvl do they lvl also? simple but important. its there lvling automatic when you do or do you have to pay for it?
Jindl 10-28-04, 03:48 PM	question about cohorts and the CoCo when you lvl do they lvl also? simple but important. its there lvling automatic when you do or do you have to pay for it? A cohorts level is always dictated by your leadership score. So, if your leadership score increases enough to make the cohort go up a level, then it will. Cohorts may even go down a level if the leadership score dropped enough (like if you multiclassed druid and got an animal companion). -Jindl
T'Var 10-28-04, 03:51 PM	Cohorts may even go down a level if the leadership score dropped enough (like if you multiclassed druid and got an animal companion). -Jindl with free reserections(sp?) does the death of a cohort still count with the -2 leadership score since there is no possability of final death?
Ashenai 10-28-04, 04:00 PM	Nope. There's no negative consequence for a cohort dying.
T'Var 10-28-04, 05:21 PM	say a creature has a LA of +3 but no racial HD and that creature has special ability that The save DC against a special attack is equal to 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha modifier now since he comes in as a ECL of 4 is it considered to have 4 HD for the effect of the special attacks or his actual 1 HD
SnarkHunter 10-28-04, 07:43 PM	Unless the power says otherwise it only ever uses your racial HD. In your example the DC would be 10+cha mod.
Battousai2005 10-28-04, 09:23 PM	Hey all! Geez, it seems like forever since I've been here. Anyway, I'd like everyone to know that I rather think I shall be returning. Since Rain never got his match, I have a new idea for a character that will be worked on when I have time. In the meanwhile, any objections to me activating Kage again? I need to maintain my rep as the highest level fighter here! BTW, what kinda changes have been made in my absence?
Snommelp 10-28-04, 10:03 PM	Hello all! I have a character whose prowess in combat I would like to test. He is a non-combative cleric build, but I want to know if it will be possible for him to at least survive for a decent length of time in combat. He is level 4. Anybody willing to help me out?
Beldin 10-29-04, 04:18 AM	@Snommelp: Make a level two version of your cleric and join the Core Colliseum. After some time you will reach level 4 and see what he is worth! @Battousai: Good to have you back. There are many changes (and not all are good ;) ). There is a new thread to discuss them.
Pittbull 10-29-04, 08:06 AM	I need to maintain my rep as the highest level fighter here! BTW, what kinda changes have been made in my absence? What's about Angosh? :D Lots of changes have been made or are going to be made. Just look! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=329545)
Snommelp 10-29-04, 10:29 AM	@Snommelp: Make a level two version of your cleric and join the Core Colliseum. After some time you will reach level 4 and see what he is worth! It's not that I'm not glad for your help, but I am curious: why do I need to drop him down to level 2? Did I miss a rule somewhere?
Jindl 10-29-04, 11:02 AM	It's not that I'm not glad for your help, but I am curious: why do I need to drop him down to level 2? Did I miss a rule somewhere? All starting gladiators begin at Level 2. Gladiators can begin at a higher level if #1 - The minimum starting ECL is >2 due to racial HD and/or Level Adjustment; AND #2 - The player spends 3 credits per ECL >2 that the gladiator begins at. Credits can be accrued through pitlording fights and certain other jobs occasionally offered by the GM(s). So write up your cleric at level 2, then win 2 fights and he'll become level 4. -Jindl
Sindorin 10-29-04, 11:04 AM	@Snommelp: It states somewhere on the Gladiators & FAQ thread that all characters must begin at level two, unless they have a level adjustment greater than two in which you must pitlord fights in order to gain three credits per level above two that your character starts. For example, I will soon be posting a drow on here, and he has a level adjustment of +2, so I will be spending three credits that I have because I used to pitlord fights. He will be a level 1 character at Effective Character Level (ECL) 3. That extra level above two is what will cost me the credits. Your Cleric only has to win twice to get to level four, and with clerics being one of the best classes available, I think you will do just fine. Just make sure you invest in a ranged weapon of some sort, a melee weapon, and perhaps a mount if you have the money. Welcome Aboard!
Snommelp 10-29-04, 06:08 PM	Alright, I'll level-drain him until he's level 2. Where do I post the character when he's ready?
Sindorin 10-29-04, 06:23 PM	Simply reply to the Gladiators & FAQ thread with the post of your gladiator. You may try using the Quickstart Guide to get yourself going. It is on there as well.
Battousai2005 10-29-04, 09:34 PM	What's about Angosh? :D Lots of changes have been made or are going to be made. Just look! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=329545) Thanks for the thread. Angosh is not a fighter. He has levels of assassin. He hides a lot and, although he likes his chain, he is not a fighter. Kage is 11 levels of pure fighter. Not sure if thats good or not...
Caterane 10-29-04, 09:51 PM	One of the top fights is up: Bruno Willikens vs Peter Patroclus (lvl 15)
Jindl 10-29-04, 09:57 PM	Kage is 11 levels of pure fighter. Not sure if thats good or not... 12 Levels would be better, right Batt?
Battousai2005 10-29-04, 10:00 PM	Ah...its been longer than I thought...and my brain fried at the moment. Just a hint: when a teacher says that a week will be hell, believe her
Caterane 10-30-04, 08:07 AM	The Core Coliseum Gallery (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=3982959#post3982959) is finally up and posted in the first post of the World Thread. It is a compilation of pictures of our members, and I'm sure everyone is curious how those look like with whom we played and chatted for so long now. First I thought about putting it in the Monster Section (mainly because of Druid Roxors LOL) but then I decided to put it where everyone will find it quickly. This is also a bid to you all to send me a picture of you, so that you may take your rightful place in the Core Coliseum Gallery! Enjoy! :)
Pittbull 10-30-04, 09:15 AM	@Cat: Core Coliseum Gallery :mymy: ! Now to my question: I allready dicussed it with Cat, but he told me he thinks this issue is unclear and needs a discussion. It is possible to use Polymorph any Objection to transform Angosh into a Demon, a Devil or a Giant as a prebuff. Polymorph says that you keep all abillities you gained from your classes, but you change your type. For example a barbarian keeps his abillity to rage, but a halfdragon will lose his template. There is the sticky point: Angosh has the DragonDisciple Prestige-Class and get a lot of extraordinary abillities out of it. In my oppinion he keeps them all after the polymorph, because he gains them out of the class-levels from DD. Through his prestige-class he gains in the 10th level the half-dragon-template as a class-feature without a level-adjustment. I believe, that he will also keep the abillities from Dragon Apotheosis it results out of the prestige-class and is not comparable with a normal template. Please, tell what do you think about, Cat said it is unclear and you know what I think. Thank you for helping me, I'm waiting for weeks to present this idea and it's a very important issue in Angoshs build. Pittbull
Caterane 10-31-04, 08:44 AM	Jin Szen vs Eiletha is up. Re: Angosh Normally, you lose a template if you polymorph because it is part of the race. Here however, the template comes from a class. Would he be a lvl 9 Dragon Disciple, he would keep the ability increases from dragon disciple class levels. At lvl 10 however, these increases meld into the halfdragon template. Question is now: Is the Dragon Disciple halfdragon template considered a class feature or not?
Sindorin 10-31-04, 10:41 AM	@Cat - That gallery is a great idea, I'll work on getting a picture of myself and Ashley to ya. I do think that the Dragon Disciple's Apatheosis should be treated as a bonus. The only thing I wonder about is 'does the level adjustment added count'... hmm... who knows?
Caterane 10-31-04, 10:46 AM	Cool!! Can't wait to see them!! :)
Magagumo 10-31-04, 11:18 AM	Jin Szen vs Eiletha is up. Re: Angosh Normally, you lose a template if you polymorph because it is part of the race. Here however, the template comes from a class. Would he be a lvl 9 Dragon Disciple, he would keep the ability increases from dragon disciple class levels. At lvl 10 however, these increases meld into the halfdragon template. Question is now: Is the Dragon Disciple halfdragon template considered a class feature or not? I would say, scary as it is, since the Dragon Disciple class would continue to apply to whatever form you took, with one exception: The PrC class requires that you are not already a dragon, so you cannot become a half-dragon, dragon ;). Other than that, I would agree that the template is added. Trick is getting it cast when you lost 10 caster levels... I think it all balance out nicely.
Caterane 10-31-04, 01:15 PM	Kaigan has been added to the CoCo Gallery!
kedi 10-31-04, 01:52 PM	*checks the first page* Now, guess I'm the youngest COCO Member (15 on November). ;)
barrel_master 11-02-04, 11:40 AM	@SnarkHunter... despite the fact that I'll probably get clobbered... if you'd like... I'll make Paul active this week for your telepath.
Pittbull 11-02-04, 11:45 AM	@SnarkHunter... despite the fact that I'll probably get clobbered... if you'd like... I'll make Paul active this week for your telepath. @Snark: Everybody wants to have you, I'd like to have a revenge for Angosh, last time your tactic has been too clever for mine, this time it won't happen again. :D
SnarkHunter 11-02-04, 01:30 PM	@SnarkHunter... despite the fact that I'll probably get clobbered... if you'd like... I'll make Paul active this week for your telepath. Rock. I'll set him ready, and best of luck ;). @ Angosh: Gonna be pretty busy till finals are over, 2 gladiators and a fight is about the most I can manage. Maybe next week dude.
Caterane 11-02-04, 01:41 PM	@Pittbull: There's still another Harvester :D You'd bump anyway @Druid: Will Cori be ready?
SnarkHunter 11-02-04, 01:46 PM	Hey all, took awhile but I finally voted for those proposals in the Elder thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4276107#post4276107)
Druid Roxors 11-02-04, 04:32 PM	Excellent Snark! Cat and Jindl should do the same. BTW, I cant ready Cori if I dont know the rules ;) Lets ignore the 2-3 fights per spell preparation for now, Id say. And the items x5... well, I already changed my equipment but it wont be much of a problem to restore it.
Caterane 11-02-04, 08:06 PM	Hey Druid, here's someone who wants to talk to you... "Hooooowwwwwlllll woof woof" "Ah shut up, stupid wolf." *kicks Perductoris in the flank* :pbbbtt: :bounce: :pbbbtt:
MysticMonk2005 11-03-04, 12:13 AM	Is a half-giant's fists considered large weapons from the Powerfull Build ability? Oh, and The Lord of the Bumps shall return to active duty in the arena!
Pittbull 11-03-04, 02:38 AM	@Pittbull: There's still another Harvester :D You'd bump anyway @Snark: Sittinig out is no option I'd like to have. @Cat: This time you won't win the initiaive :devil: ! Did I mention that Harvey 1 is weaker than Harvey 2? But please, suposed to be pitlord, please roll initaitive in advance directly after pairing, so that I'm able to write tactics on thursday morning CET.
Druid Roxors 11-03-04, 10:03 AM	Hey Druid, here's someone who wants to talk to you... "Hooooowwwwwlllll woof woof" "Ah shut up, stupid wolf." *kicks Perductoris in the flank* :pbbbtt: :bounce: :pbbbtt: Ill get him back! MARK MY WORDS!!! (!)(!!)(!!!) :headexplo
Magagumo 11-03-04, 10:07 AM	Ban & Crest are readied for this week.. Ban's been waiting a long time to fight, Tair :D @Zerone Just for your info, chum, your prices on your crafted scrolls are wrong if they are in fact CL 8- they should cost 8x as much as you have them priced for CL 1 scrolls. [I mean for Jin Szen, who could potentially fight Crest this week]
Jindl 11-03-04, 10:58 AM	Is anybody else going to be active at Level's 14 and 15? I'm happy to pair Rhoar or Aku up against anyone else at those levels. Any takers? Please let me know something. Those are my only two active pc's and if neither is going to fight, then I may make a new PC just to have someone active this week. Thanks!
Sindorin 11-03-04, 10:59 AM	Ban & Crest are readied for this week.. Ban's been waiting a long time to fight, Tair :D Yes, yes... I did notice the didn't fight credit in Tair's tier and so I brought him out of his early retirement. That makes Tair having been retired about four or five times, and only at level nine. I just can't seem to be motivated to just start him over like I've been planning. You will have your fight, Mind of War...
Zerone 11-03-04, 01:06 PM	@Zerone Just for your info, chum, your prices on your crafted scrolls are wrong if they are in fact CL 8- they should cost 8x as much as you have them priced for CL 1 scrolls. [I mean for Jin Szen, who could potentially fight Crest this week] What? If I crafted them, why would I charge myself more? I just went and read the DMG "Scribing Scrolls" section. A question to everyone... What part of this rule makes sense? What does Caster Level have to do with the materials needed to scribe a scroll? It doesn't matter if I am a 1st or 20th Level Caster when scribing a 1st level spell; I still use a 1st level spell slot and I use the same amount of materials... right? Why does it cost more? Where am I going wrong? :confused: Thanks for your help :D *•. Z Edit: I can see why they would be more expensive if purchased from someone else... time is money, and the higher your caster level the more your time would be worth, in a matter of speaking, but not if I crafted them myself, my time is my money, why would I spend more for something I get for free?
Ashenai 11-03-04, 01:15 PM	Well... more powerful scrolls cost more. Nothing surprising about that. Your own caster level is only important in the sense that you can't craft a scroll with a higher caster level than your own. You don't automatically scribe a scroll at your own caster level; you can choose any caster level to scribe them at, as long as it's not higher than your caster level. Basically, once you decide on what spell to scribe, you decide how much power (CL) to give the scroll. Obviously, giving it more power will make it more expensive. Seems fairly logical to me. :) Look at it this way: if you're a brilliant writer, you can write a bad book (low CL scroll) easily, with little effort. But if you want to write a true masterpiece, something truly worthy of you (a scroll with a CL equal to your own), you're going to have to put in a lot more effort (or in this case, money).
Zerone 11-03-04, 01:28 PM	Well... more powerful scrolls cost more. Nothing surprising about that. Your own caster level is only important in the sense that you can't craft a scroll with a higher caster level than your own. Basically, once you decide on what spell to scribe, you decide how much power (CL) to give the scroll. Obviously, giving it more power will make it more expensive. Seems fairly logical to me. :) Thanks Ashenai, also for your reply to my PM a few days ago. :) I understand this idea yet I have an opposite point of view, which is also based on logic (in my post above). While I dissagree, I will edit my character accordingly. This is one of those instances where I would like to ask them about the rule, as it has 2 reasonable points of view, and no explaination as to why it is the way it is... Am I the only one who sees it differently? Zerone
Zerone 11-03-04, 01:41 PM	OK. If I craft a 2nd Level Scroll as a 3rd level caster, how much does it cost? 150 x 0.7 = 105 gp (the way I've been doing it) or 12.5 x 2 x 3 = 75 gp (the way the book does it) I believe that the 1st method was found on this site under the FAQ, but why is it different than in the book?
Ashenai 11-03-04, 02:10 PM	It'll cost 105 gp. The reason is because according to the rules, it would cost you 150/2 = 75 gp, but also 150/25 = 6 xp. Since we don't have XP here in the CoCo, we use the formula of 1 xp = 5 gp (this formula is echoed in the Core books a number of times; basically, it's clear that whenever XP needs to be given a gold piece value, 1 XP is worth 5 GP). And so, 75 gp + 6 xp = 75 gp + 30 gp = 105 gp. Non-math geeks can stop paying attention now. Since all magic items cost 1/2 of their market price in gold and 1/25 in XP to craft, for any magic item with a market price of X gold, we get: Craft price of magic item worth X gold: (1/2 * X) gp + (1/25 * X) xp (1/2 * X) gp + (5 * 1/25 * X) gp (1/2 * X) gp + (1/5 * X) gp (0.5 * X) gp + (0.2 * X) gp 0.7 * X gp ...which is where our 0.7x crafting cost rule comes from.
Jindl 11-03-04, 02:20 PM	Wouldn't it cost 525 gp, since the 5x rule is in effect for scrolls? Or is that rule being ignored for now?
Ashenai 11-03-04, 02:24 PM	All voted-on changes are being delayed for now; many people were concerned about low Elder participation in the vote. So all changes are up on the docket for another 2 weeks before anything goes into effect. Please go and vote on these issues on the Council thread!
Magagumo 11-03-04, 03:05 PM	Does this include the 50' ceiling? Or just the fights/day & item cost?
KerlanRayne 11-03-04, 04:02 PM	Does this include the 50' ceiling? Or just the fights/day & item cost?Well now that Snark has voted, I think this one is tied. The free res for allies and the no stacking to False Life should be passed ok because they both got 4 votes which is more than half. The others need further discussion. KerlanRayne
Zerone 11-03-04, 06:39 PM	Whoops! I forgot to change the title of The Solstice's post to, "Ready for Nov. 3rd", if it's not too late, I'd like to be ready to fight? I also sent a PM to the Pitlords... Thanks, :D Zerone
Pitlords 11-03-04, 06:51 PM	Pairings done! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=2700233#post2700233) No editing before your fight is posted If you want to activate one of your characters to make uneven levels even, PM me Pitlords may begin running fights without tactics on saturday Fights must be posted until monday Late penalties on tuesday Credit changes: +3: Druid Roxors +2: Ashenai, Zerone +1: Caterane, Jindl, LLMadCow, T'Var, Scaryfroman *: free fight for KerlanRayne to make lvl 2 even
Caterane 11-03-04, 07:07 PM	Ok, due to some complains (right Laszlo? ;)) that my picture looks like I am an "Animate dead" victim, I've posted a new one: To World Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=278068)
SnarkHunter 11-03-04, 07:18 PM	Oh man, there really isn't anyone else at level 3? If someone wants they could just set themselves ready vs. The Arhat, I promise he doesn't bite! Please..? Otherwise his path to enlightenment shall be slower going...
T'Var 11-03-04, 07:22 PM	Oh man, there really isn't anyone else at level 3? If someone wants they could just set themselves ready vs. The Arhat, I promise he doesn't bite! Please..? Otherwise his path to enlightenment shall be slower going... cant you fight a monster instead of just sitting out a week? do you get a lvl for a monster fight?
barrel_master 11-03-04, 07:43 PM	Is anybody else going to be active at Level's 14 and 15? I'm happy to pair Rhoar or Aku up against anyone else at those levels. Any takers? Please let me know something. Those are my only two active pc's and if neither is going to fight, then I may make a new PC just to have someone active this week. Thanks! Dam... sorry, I don't check the boards that regular... otherwise I would have told you that Pete's probbaly going to sit out for a bit till Aku is away from me. Regarding the unfortunate lack of characters at certain lvl's. Why don't we steam line a few things or reduce the max lvl of the arena? We could have the max lvl at 15 which... thoretacly could encourage more lower lvl characters. Also, if we're looking to steamline the rules we can do so by, simply, outlawing some allies (although this may prove unpopular). If we get rid of leadership, handle animal and the animate dead clauses we can reduce the size of the rules by almost half a page.
MysticMonk2005 11-03-04, 08:45 PM	cant you fight a monster instead of just sitting out a week? do you get a lvl for a monster fight? I nster fights take up creds. and no, monsterfights do not lvl u. and does anyone know about a half-giants fists being large or med. weapons? (Powerfull Build)
SnarkHunter 11-03-04, 10:37 PM	I nster fights take up creds. and no, monsterfights do not lvl u. and does anyone know about a half-giants fists being large or med. weapons? (Powerfull Build) Indeed monster fights do not, in addition to which The Arhat has no ranks in handle animal, making such a thing decidedly useless for him. As to your question I believe their fists would be large. Don't ask me to back that up, but I do recall working on a build or two around Psychic warrior half-giants with all the claw powers and...hmm that could still work...
Battousai2005 11-03-04, 11:30 PM	Since I said I was back, I may as well make it official. Kage (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2874698&postcount=87) will be returning from inactive. I have made the necessary changes and I hope I can find someone who is smart enough to take on the poor, defenseless fighter. :P
Beldin 11-04-04, 04:30 AM	Are oneshot items now more expensive or are they not? Rhaegar sold all of them/did not buy new ones - but his opponent Cyric has his potions, powerstones, .. , still at the old price... :confused: a very confused member :rolleyes:
KerlanRayne 11-04-04, 04:45 AM	does anyone know about a half-giants fists being large or med. weapons? (Powerfull Build)Treated as Medium. Only able to wield large weapons and get some size bonuses but otherwise treat as medium. KerlanRayne
KerlanRayne 11-04-04, 04:56 AM	Are oneshot items now more expensive or are they not? Rhaegar sold all of them/did not buy new ones - but his opponent Cyric has his potions, powerstones, .. , still at the old price... :confused: a very confused member :rolleyes:From what I know, that has been delayed untill further discussion. Don't worry though, I won't use any of my items in this fight, OK? KerlanRayne
Pittbull 11-04-04, 08:52 AM	It's getting time for my second build in this Arena. I've thinking about a human petitioner(Devine SRD), is allowed to create one and his ECL is LA+0 +2d8 Racial HD= 2? SRD is saying, this template is only for NPCs, but is that relevant for the CoCo? Is there anybody, who can help me?
Magagumo 11-04-04, 09:06 AM	Petitioners canm't get class levels and are vastly overpowered resistance wise for PCs- sorry Pittbuill, but no-go there.
Pittbull 11-04-04, 09:11 AM	Petitioners canm't get class levels and are vastly overpowered resistance wise for PCs- sorry Pittbuill, but no-go there. :weep: :weep: :tissue: This idea is :ghosted: ! I will look for another. Thanks Mag!
T'Var 11-04-04, 09:48 AM	I've thinking about a human petitioner(Devine SRD), divine SRD, where is that at online?
LLMadCow 11-04-04, 10:49 AM	Hey guys - I told my McTemplate that Lorelei was set to fight this week and he informed me that she was not listed as ready, nor had she been leveled. If people feel like approving her advancement after pairings, I'll let McTemplate know she can fight if leveled today. Anyways, just wanted people to know.....
Beldin 11-04-04, 10:49 AM	@kerlan: Thanks for the offer - but since I must have overread that agreement its my mistake. Use your items, Rhaegar would have bougt only a potion of invisibility anyway. afterall its two versus one ;)
Pittbull 11-04-04, 11:39 AM	divine SRD, where is that at online? :rimshot: TATAA!!! There it is! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) :)
Jindl 11-04-04, 01:57 PM	Dam... sorry, I don't check the boards that regular... otherwise I would have told you that Pete's probbaly going to sit out for a bit till Aku is away from me. No sweat, barrel. I didn't want a 3rd rematch against Peter right now anyway. I would like to face him again, but not until a few more levels. I'm really hoping that cellardwellar, Caterane, kattattack22, Snarkhunter, Ethendril, and some of the others will reactivate their Lvl 14 characters. We have a bunch there (both on the active and inactive lists), but none of them have been set ready lately (except Rhoar...) If they will all activate, then we'll have plenty of new opponents at Lvl 15. -Jindl
Beldin 11-04-04, 03:44 PM	Aemon schould be at level 13, I believe and he has fought Rhoar twice already.
Jindl 11-04-04, 03:51 PM	Aemon schould be at level 13, I believe and he has fought Rhoar twice already. Aye, and he defeated Rhoar both times. I think Pitlords assumed you wanted to bump him after Angosh gave him the 3rd loss at Lvl 13. I guess that's why he is listed at Lvl 14. I didn't necessary want Rhoar paired against Aemon. I just want all the Lvl 14's to come back to life to supply some more gladiators at Lvls 14-16.
Beldin 11-04-04, 04:07 PM	I only fought Bilo and Ebelin at level 13 afaik. Angosh was some levels earlier - and Aemon won ;) .
Jindl 11-04-04, 04:40 PM	I only fought Bilo and Ebelin at level 13 afaik. Angosh was some levels earlier - and Aemon won ;) . Well, in that case the Roster is incorrect and somebody needs to fix it...
Pitlords 11-04-04, 04:47 PM	Done. Also: Level 6 Pard Longfellow (MysticMonk2005) vs Eiletha Surion (Kaigan): Piuro has been added to the Roster. Piuro has been informed.
T'Var 11-04-04, 05:40 PM	nvm found it
cellardweller 11-04-04, 08:02 PM	I'm really hoping that cellardwellar, Caterane, kattattack22, Snarkhunter, Ethendril, and some of the others will reactivate their Lvl 14 characters. I'll re-activate Shiaan as soon as the mounted grapple rules are finalised by the council.
SnarkHunter 11-04-04, 09:41 PM	I'll reactivate Bilo when I stop being so darn lazy.
Caterane 11-05-04, 12:36 AM	:weep: Bilo R.I.P. :ghosted: :tissue: LOL :D
KerlanRayne 11-05-04, 04:21 AM	@Jindl: You ever going to post any details about my last fight? Maybe a paragraph summary or even my opponent's tactics would be nice. KerlanRayne
Jindl 11-05-04, 09:27 AM	@Jindl: You ever going to post any details about my last fight? Maybe a paragraph summary or even my opponent's tactics would be nice. KerlanRayne I'll get it posted Saturday morning, when I get back from Columbia (South Carolina, not South America...)
kattattack22 11-05-04, 05:59 PM	Aye, and he defeated Rhoar both times. I think Pitlords assumed you wanted to bump him after Angosh gave him the 3rd loss at Lvl 13. I guess that's why he is listed at Lvl 14. I didn't necessary want Rhoar paired against Aemon. I just want all the Lvl 14's to come back to life to supply some more gladiators at Lvls 14-16. Sorry, I've been busy with so much school stuff right now. Otherwise Arkin might rise again, but his tricks aren't working and I need time to find new ones. In December when I'm on break I will have so much more time and probably be active again.
Battousai2005 11-06-04, 10:06 AM	Lalalalala. Well, time to start a new string of questions. 1) For Evil aligned prestige classes (Assassin and Blackguard), does the character need to stay evil to continue? I am just a bit curious as it seems to be something my offline group and I contest highly. Myself, I don't see why they can't as it is something that is required to become that class. Still, I'd like to get some feedback. 2) Ummmmm...Would whoever wins in the Level 10 bracket kindly keep their character active so Kage gets a fight? Much thanks on that one. EDIT: Oh, and on the gallery, can only elders submit pics or can anyone?
Caterane 11-06-04, 10:31 AM	@Battousais: 1) Evil is a prerequisite. You'd lose all abilities if you change your alignment. 2) Isn't Kage lvl 11? Picture: Of course all members are wanted in the Gallery!!! I would like to have it as complete as possible, and if you have a picture please send it to me! I will add it at once. @Sindorin: Didn't you want to send me a picture of you and your GF? :) Btw, what about Nanaleigh? Doesn't she want to continue to play her character?
Sindorin 11-06-04, 12:33 PM	@Cat Re:pic - Well, I am one of those low-tech sorts - in other words, i don't really have a camera or scanner conveniently available. We went trick or treating for Halloween and i was waiting for a picture we took from that night to get developed. Nanaleigh has been really busy with graduate school and she doesn't have accessible internet available, but she does intend on eventually readying Sonora again. Things have just been rather hectic here. Patience, please :)
Zerone 11-07-04, 11:34 AM	Hear's a real stumper... Is a Summon Monster spell considered an attack spell for ending a successful Sanctuary? I just want to be sure... Thanks for any help! :D *•. Z
Ashenai 11-07-04, 11:35 AM	No, just like it isn't considered an attack for ending Invisibility.
MadCowTemplate 11-07-04, 01:51 PM	For some reason, I have been unable to get through to the boards on my PC for several days. That being said. @ Zerone, scaryfroman, & Pitlords Lorelei was not legally ready to fight when she was assigned. I appreciate the lenience that was intended there, but she wasn't ready because I wasn't ready. I had things I wanted to add the RP thread before putting her back into battle, and I needed to remember where I was going with her classes and skills and what not. It has been months since I designed her or used her. She will not be leveled for fighting this week. Possibly not next week. No tactics will be sent for her. I'm sorry for anyone who this inconveniences, but I have to admit that I don't really feel like this situation is entirely my fault. Sorry. If you would like yo use her to run the fight anyway, just so scaryfroman's guy doesn't have to sit around, feel free. Write an amusing story to your heart's content. But don't expect me to list the fight on her character sheet.
Ashenai 11-07-04, 05:32 PM	HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA, just thought of the most stupidly powerful tactic ever. Since it's cheesy beyond words, I don't want to use it. Instead, I'll share it with everyone and see if we can figure out a way to ban it. It's like a Corinthian Fire for mages, only arbitrarily more powerful. :P Needed: (it's possible to do it with different or fewer resources, this is just an example) * A level 9 mage cohort with access to Teleport and Explosive Runes. * The ability to cast Dispel Magic (from memory, or an item) * Something granting a lot of movement. Phantom Steed will do nicely. Pre-buffs: Cohort casts Explosive Runes (permanent until discharged) on 500 scrolls, and puts them into a bag. Round 1: Cohort teleports to the enemy, drops the bag (making it a collection of unattended items). Mage moves to LOS and medium range, and casts area Dispel Magic with the scrolls in the AoE. 6d6 damage for each Dispel roll out of the 500 that fails. Reflex halves. :D Thoughts?
Zerone 11-07-04, 05:49 PM	Gee, let's see... do some quick math here... carry the 2... That's 187,500 gp... :rolleyes:
Jindl 11-07-04, 06:11 PM	Thoughts? Yet another reason to use 4 random starting positions. The technique is readily apparent (you have to prebuff the explosive runes). It's also easily countered with resist energy (11th level caster), which many gladiators have by the time you'll have a cohort who can teleport. It's also easily countered by anyone with evasion and a good reflex save, as Evasion will negate the damage, and the save DC for a cohort's explosive runes is probably not that high. It is a creative tactic, and could be effective sometimes, but I don't see it being anywhere near as powerful as Kelek's readied prismatic wall or Rhoar's Neanderthal Cannonball. Plus, as Zerone mentioned, explosive runes does have a fairly expensive materical component cost. Good job thinking outside the box. It's very creative, but I doubt it will ever see use in the arena. Just a note on Corinthian Fire, its also easily countered by resist energy (11th level caster).
Magagumo 11-07-04, 06:31 PM	Speaking of the cannonball, a Psychic Warrior cohort in my Malign campaign used it yesterday- now, this is my house-rule and not vouched by any Core rules, but I had her make a ranged touch attack with a -4 (non-proficiency)- the target then could make a Rex save (equal to Attack roll) for half, while the "cannonball" took full. Just my 2c for personal campaigns implementing this trick.
scaryfroman 11-07-04, 07:13 PM	I tried searching, but here are a couple of questions: 1) The Assasin PrC. Allowed? the special requirement would be hard to do in the CoCo, unless it is waived. 2) Poisons. Allowed?
Magagumo 11-07-04, 07:33 PM	I tried searching, but here are a couple of questions: 1) The Assasin PrC. Allowed? the special requirement would be hard to do in the CoCo, unless it is waived. 2) Poisons. Allowed? Yes tob oth: The first req is simply made part of a story (Bilo, kelek, & Angosh are all Assassins). No need to play it out more than as backstory. Poisons are permitted, though I caution you that alck of crafting rules make them very expensive (though occassionally useful). If we end up quintupling consumables, poisons will be basically unusable due to cost, but so will Delay Poison potions...
scaryfroman 11-07-04, 07:45 PM	Great. And with the Death attack class feature, would moving silently, hiding, invis, qualify as "not detected?"
Ashenai 11-07-04, 08:10 PM	Yet another reason to use 4 random starting positions. The technique is readily apparent (you have to prebuff the explosive runes). It's also easily countered with resist energy (11th level caster), which many gladiators have by the time you'll have a cohort who can teleport. It's also easily countered by anyone with evasion and a good reflex save, as Evasion will negate the damage, and the save DC for a cohort's explosive runes is probably not that high. It's a separate save for every blast. Evasion won't help, not even with a high Reflex save. And if the runes are Maximized, they'll blast through any Resist Energy (36 damage). That's still only a 6th level spell, or you can keep them 3rd level with a lesser Metmagic Rod. It is a creative tactic, and could be effective sometimes, but I don't see it being anywhere near as powerful as Kelek's readied prismatic wall or Rhoar's Neanderthal Cannonball. Plus, as Zerone mentioned, explosive runes does have a fairly expensive materical component cost. Um, no it doesn't. It doesn't even have a material component. :) Good job thinking outside the box. It's very creative, but I doubt it will ever see use in the arena. Well, I hope not, but I can't see why it wouldn't be effective.
Snommelp 11-07-04, 09:35 PM	Question: can you shoot a crossbow if you're wearing a shield? I'd think it would be possible, but it could be difficult to do right. Any thoughts?
Zerone 11-07-04, 09:53 PM	Gee, let's see... do some quick math here... carry the 2... That's 187,500 gp... :rolleyes: Attn. Ashenai: Ahhh, close. That's what I said, not component but price for scribing all those scrolls... Actually, it'd be 131,250 gp, forgot to x0.7 it... :gah: ;) Attn. Snommelp: You can attack with any weapon with a Buckler attatched, but it gives a -1 Attack if it is a 2 handed weapon. So firing a Crossbow with a Buckler is possible, allbeit at a -1 Attack. *•. Z
Snommelp 11-07-04, 10:00 PM	Attn. Snommelp: You can attack with any weapon with a Buckler attatched, but it gives a -1 Attack if it is a 2 handed weapon. So firing a Crossbow with a Buckler is possible, allbeit at a -1 Attack. *•. Z Figures... I can afford a small shield, but not a buckler. Looks like Cedric's going to have to keep relying on his chain shirt and his magic to try to get by... hey, what's the policy on selling back items? Is it the usual "sell price is half of the buying price" deal?
Magagumo 11-07-04, 10:00 PM	One correction: A buckler can be used without penalty with a crossbow or short/longbow, it's listed right in the description of the buckler, and ushered in the wave of my characters' buckler use :).
Sindorin 11-07-04, 10:24 PM	That's why bucklers cost 15 gp compared to a similar wooden shield (same bonus) that costs 3 gp. Bucklers rule.
Ashenai 11-07-04, 10:28 PM	Attn. Ashenai: Ahhh, close. That's what I said, not component but price for scribing all those scrolls... Actually, it'd be 131,250 gp, forgot to x0.7 it... :gah: ;) Scribing what scrolls? I'm not making Scrolls of Exploding Runes, I'm simply casting Exploding Runes on non-magical scrolls. Not the same thing. :)
barrel_master 11-08-04, 01:22 PM	@Kaigan Do you plan on having Enilias Surion fight this week... I'd like to get Octavian doing something.
Jindl 11-08-04, 03:16 PM	It's a separate save for every blast. Evasion won't help, not even with a high Reflex save. And if the runes are Maximized, they'll blast through any Resist Energy (36 damage). That's still only a 6th level spell, or you can keep them 3rd level with a lesser Metmagic Rod. Actually, I just noticed that they deal force damage, so resist energy won't help at all. Um, no it doesn't. It doesn't even have a material component. :) Also true. Well, I hope not, but I can't see why it wouldn't be effective. It may be something we have to ban, like the gate spell. This technique is usable at 6th level, if the wizard knows explosive runes and gets a pixie cohort (to deliver the scrolls and cast the dispel magic). Perhaps the pixies can finally have their revenge on Hatzinger...
MysticMonk2005 11-09-04, 12:56 AM	What are the current rules on crafting? Is it still craft for half price, so long as you can reach the DC by taking 10? and you can only craft so much each level or what ever? If so, what would be the DC for Mythril BreastPlate?
Pittbull 11-09-04, 02:42 AM	@Pitlords: Please give Angosh his last :bump: !
Caterane 11-09-04, 03:53 AM	@Pittbull: What makes you think it will be your last bump :D
Kaigan 11-09-04, 11:56 AM	@Cat or Jindl: Am I allowed to tweaked my character. I mean tweak as in switch my 8 con with a different attribute?
Pittbull 11-09-04, 12:36 PM	Regarding prebuffs: Do I need to write in down to which type Mini-Me transforms Angosh with polymorph any Object? If not, surprise, surprise! :dragon:
Pittbull 11-09-04, 12:46 PM	Perhaps the pixies can finally have their revenge on Hatzinger... "Stop! Stop! I will never tell you where he is!" :gah: Meanwhile in Pittbulls and Hatzingers hometown: :pint: ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) Edit: the smily on the right-hand-side is Hatze!
Jindl 11-09-04, 01:14 PM	What are the current rules on crafting? Is it still craft for half price, so long as you can reach the DC by taking 10? and you can only craft so much each level or what ever? If so, what would be the DC for Mythril BreastPlate? Yes. Mithril BreastPlate is DC 20 (as masterwork armor). @Cat or Jindl: Am I allowed to tweaked my character. I mean tweak as in switch my 8 con with a different attribute? We have allowed minor tweaks in the past, such as changing the order feats were acquired in, or allowing minor changes in skill point allocations. But I think changing the ability score array is a bit much. Sorry, just my opinion. Regarding prebuffs: Do I need to write in down to which type Mini-Me transforms Angosh with polymorph any Object? If not, surprise, surprise! Yes, you have to write the creature that Angosh has been polymorphed into.
Ethendril 11-09-04, 04:51 PM	Perhaps the pixies can finally have their revenge on Hatzinger... I think the pixies already had their revenge. What else could explain Hatzinger's mysterious disappearance?
Jindl 11-09-04, 05:10 PM	I think the pixies already had their revenge. What else could explain Hatzinger's mysterious disappearance? I know a certain Neanderthal that would love to test his skill againt a Pixie. Would Kiri be open to a challenge from Rhoar?
Ethendril 11-09-04, 05:22 PM	I know a certain Neanderthal that would love to test his skill againt a Pixie. Would Kiri be open to a challenge from Rhoar? Naw, just sticking my head in for a quick greeting when I saw mention of pixies.
Beldin 11-09-04, 05:40 PM	Why not? Everyone would be happy to see you active again.
Kaigan 11-09-04, 06:01 PM	Well, I guess Eiletha is going to disappear and in her place, another cleric of Correleon Larethian. LOL. And i think Enilias will be inactive for a bit, but i am also going to create another character in the Surion clan.
Battousai2005 11-09-04, 09:09 PM	So, my assassin question was answerd. barrelmaster, any chance of keeping Paul active? I was hoping to give Kage a nice match, and another warrior class would be a nice start.
barrel_master 11-10-04, 01:33 AM	It seems that the other guy I was wanting to fight isn't going to do anything this week so... sure... it might take a bit for me to update the dude though.
Beldin 11-10-04, 02:01 AM	from KerlanRaynes tactics: * When opponent is located, use Dispel Psionics(8 pp) (can't be countered by ring). of couterspells: dispel magic Had't you agreed about magic-psionics transparency? If my dispel magic magic can't counter his dispel psionics then his spell should not be able to dispel magic buffs...
SnarkHunter 11-10-04, 02:47 AM	@Beldin: There was disagreement, and without an Elder decision its a DM decision. @Sindorin: In hopes of avoiding yet another match up between us I'm going to unready Evram and hope the next week brings someone new. Hope you don't mind?
KerlanRayne 11-10-04, 04:34 AM	from KerlanRaynes tactics: * When opponent is located, use Dispel Psionics(8 pp) (can't be countered by ring). of couterspells: dispel magic Had't you agreed about magic-psionics transparency? If my dispel magic magic can't counter his dispel psionics then his spell should not be able to dispel magic buffs...You can use Dispel Magic to dispel Psionic Powers, but you can't use it to counter them. There is no mechanic for countering Powers, only dispelling. KerlanRayne
Beldin 11-10-04, 05:14 AM	Well, in our last fight Jindl was of the opinion that dispel magic could counter psionics, as am I - but I do know not much about psionics.
KerlanRayne 11-10-04, 06:21 AM	Well, in our last fight Jindl was of the opinion that dispel magic could counter psionics, as am I - but I do know not much about psionics.He wasn't sure about it, but after looking into it he replied with this: So the question is not about transparency of negate psionics/dispel magic. The question is, "Can you counterspell psionics?" As much as I would like it to be "yes" (for the above mentioned balance reasons), the answer is "No, you cannot counterspell psionics." KerlanRayne
Beldin 11-10-04, 06:27 AM	Then i stand corrected.
Battousai2005 11-10-04, 09:37 AM	It seems that the other guy I was wanting to fight isn't going to do anything this week so... sure... it might take a bit for me to update the dude though. Cool, thanks. I've been doing a lot of Roleplay threads lately. I need some good, hardcore fighting.
Jindl 11-10-04, 10:05 AM	@Beldin - The reason you can't counterspell psionics is that psionic powers are defined as spell-like abilities. Spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled. -Jindl
Zerone 11-10-04, 01:47 PM	Many thanks to T'Var and Caterane for offering to run the fights. Alas, I just checked in since your posts and there was no time to send tactics, besides, we needed LLMadCow's tactics, and since he is MIA, we'll wait a week. Thanks again, *•. Z
Sindorin 11-10-04, 04:53 PM	Heh, Evram and Tair could have yet another rematch at this level... :banghead:
Pitlords 11-10-04, 05:24 PM	Pairings done Pitlords may begin running fights on saturday Fights due monday Late penalties on tuesday Credit changes: +3: Zerone +2: Caterane, Ashenai, T'Var +1: Scaryfroman, Piuro, Jindl
Pittbull 11-11-04, 08:23 AM	@ Pitlords: Please correct the Hall of Fame and Shame! Angosh has new physical Stats: permanent Str 41 ---> Strongest Gladiator and his new Dex is 15. Thanks!
Pitlords 11-11-04, 08:51 AM	Done. The Best/Worst of the coco list needs to be updated anyway. Can all of you assist me in finding the most extreme mutant manifestations? The following list has been created from the top of my head: :thumbsup: Best of the CoCo: The Strongman: Angosh (STR 41) The Quickhand: Bilo Darkleaf (DEX 26) The Ironman: Zedarak (CON 22) The Genius: Bruno Willikens (INT 29) The Oracle: Cliodhna d'Elrich (WIS 28) [Inactive] The Bunny: Kiri'endelas (CHA 28) [Inactive] :thumbsdow Worst of the CoCo: The Weak: ? (STR ?) The Clumsy: ? (DEX ?) The Sick: Eiletha Surion (CON 8) The Stupid: Donkey (INT 4) The Foolish: ? (WIS ?) The Ugly: Donkey (CHA 5) Since Clio and Kiri have been inactive for an eternity, I'd like to find suitable substitutes for Best Wis/Cha aswell.
Magagumo 11-11-04, 09:22 AM	Errr... Bruno has an Int of 29 you know now ;). He's still the smartest unless Dre gets a book.. and he'll end up with a 34 by lvl 20 if all goes well... 35 if I spent more money on a +5 tome :P.
Caterane 11-11-04, 10:01 AM	@Mag: Bah! Damn old age. Should've done the same with Dre but forgot it. Anyway, I'll end up with 34 and will reach lvl 20 before you so unless you don't waste 25k you will be the second smartest. Hm, which leads me to a question... Since there is unlimited time between fights, can I make Dre a bit older?
T'Var 11-11-04, 10:20 AM	Random thought of the day Say someone casts Magic Jar on an opponent or his cohort. now the spell says you keep the bodys str dex con hp and 'automatic' abilitys and keep your own int wis chr and mental abilitys now does that mean you gain access to there phycial feats or would they be considered mental abilitys? i think it would be a bit of both but wouldnt know how to adjudicat such a division
Sindorin 11-11-04, 10:37 AM	@Mag: Bah! Damn old age. Should've done the same with Dre but forgot it. Anyway, I'll end up with 34 and will reach lvl 20 before you so unless you don't waste 25k you will be the second smartest. Hm, which leads me to a question... Since there is unlimited time between fights, can I make Dre a bit older? I don't see why not. Every once in a while, I make Tair Malek a year or two older, it shouldn't really matter. Plus, Dre has been around a lot longer than I have (lol) so I think you should be able to. @Pitlords: Cliche Ferech, my Dromite Wilder, has a STR of 6... there might be others that low, but it could be the weakest...
Pittbull 11-11-04, 10:43 AM	Since there is unlimited time between fights, can I make Dre a bit older? From my point there is no problem, if you want to age your Prof. a little bit. Just let him join Angosh on his weekly tour through Gladius pubs and you'll see, after one week he'll be an old man. But be careful, Heinrich has been the last mage who lost a drinking-contest against Big A and he is missing in action! :drool: :pint: :surrender
Beldin 11-11-04, 10:50 AM	@Cat: I believe that that is not possible. At last in past when someone asked it was not allowed. Then all wildshapers would suddenly get very old at level 6, the same with mages and polymorph...
Pittbull 11-11-04, 11:00 AM	....does that mean you gain access to there phycial feats or would they be considered mental abilitys? I think, you don't get the feats, because you receive them in an act of learning (mental and physical) when you advance a level by getting more experienced. It might be possible to get the racial-feats. All in all I'm not sure.
Jindl 11-11-04, 11:14 AM	The Ironman: Zedarak (CON 22) Aku has a Con 24 (really a waste, since he assumes the Con of the form he polymorphs into...)
Jindl 11-11-04, 11:16 AM	@Cat: I believe that that is not possible. At last in past when someone asked it was not allowed. Then all wildshapers would suddenly get very old at level 6, the same with mages and polymorph... I've got to agree with Beldin on this. It leads to too much abuse by casters.
Jindl 11-11-04, 11:17 AM	I think, you don't get the feats, because you receive them in an act of learning (mental and physical) when you advance a level by getting more experienced. It might be possible to get the racial-feats. All in all I'm not sure. You gain any racial bonus feats. You do not gain any other feats. It defines mental/physical abilities just like polymorph.
Jindl 11-11-04, 11:19 AM	@ Pitlords: Please correct the Hall of Fame and Shame! Angosh has new physical Stats: permanent Str 41 ---> Strongest Gladiator and his new Dex is 15. Thanks! @Pittbull - Please take us through how you gain a permanent duration for your PAO effect. I don't see how you get the duration that high.
T'Var 11-11-04, 11:47 AM	You gain any racial bonus feats. You do not gain any other feats. It defines mental/physical abilities just like polymorph. does that mean he would also gain all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities. like polymorph
Battousai2005 11-11-04, 11:55 AM	@Pitlords: Ummmm... any reason that Kage did not get paired with Paul? After we went through the whole agreement thing... I did set Kage active for this week, so unless there is an error or lack of moderator, I dont see a solid reason not to have a fight. I also think I sent a PM to the Pitlords account noting this. How about it? If barrel is still up for a fight, that is...
Pittbull 11-11-04, 12:12 PM	@Pittbull - Please take us through how you gain a permanent duration for your PAO effect. I don't see how you get the duration that high. Very easy: Same kingdom (animal, vegetable, mineral) +5 YES! Duergar/Giants can be considered as "animals" in a biological way! Same class (mammals, fungi, metals, etc.) +2 YES! Duergar/Giants can be considered as "mammals" in a biological way! Same size +2 NO! Duergars are medium! Related (twig is to tree, wolf fur is to wolf, etc.) +2 NO! Same or lower Intelligence +2 Yes! Angoshs Int= 16, Stonegiant=10 Alltogether it's factor of +9, which means the polymorph is permanent. If it's possible to make a shrew out of a manticore, it should be possible to make Giant out of Dwarf. We allready dicussed this a week ago and I thought everything is clear. But seeing this should solve the problem. :)
Pitlords 11-11-04, 12:35 PM	@Pitlords: Ummmm... any reason that Kage did not get paired with Paul? After we went through the whole agreement thing... I did set Kage active for this week, so unless there is an error or lack of moderator, I dont see a solid reason not to have a fight. I also think I sent a PM to the Pitlords account noting this. How about it? If barrel is still up for a fight, that is... The reason: Kage Nightwind Ready for 10/10 Anyways. Level 11 Paul Hector (Barrelmaster) vs Kage Nightwind (Battousaus2005): Caterane ...has been added to the Roster. @Pitlords: Cliche Ferech, my Dromite Wilder, has a STR of 6... there might be others that low, but it could be the weakest... I think we shouldn't include gladiators lower than - let's say level 6 or 7. Too many new gladiators drop out at lower levels.
Jindl 11-11-04, 01:20 PM	We allready dicussed this a week ago and I thought everything is clear. But seeing this should solve the problem. :) Thanks. I must have missed that discussion, but everything seems in order. We'll see how long it takes Dre to dispel it... :D
Caterane 11-11-04, 01:40 PM	Nothing prevents him from prebuffing with POA again. It's permanent so no loss here; not even a spell slot. However, since Minimi has only 1 miracle available (and only if he uses the candle) but has 3 miracle prebuffs, he has used up 3 increments of his candle (45 minutes). About making chars older: Abuse? Which abuse? You can just aswell begin with venerable age so no big deal, or am I missing something?
Jindl 11-11-04, 02:04 PM	About making chars older: Abuse? Which abuse? You can just aswell begin with venerable age so no big deal, or am I missing something? The point is that once casters can polymorph, wildshape, manifest metamorphosis, etc, the penalties to the physical attributes become irrelevant. That's why it would be much better to wait until 6th or 7th level as a caster before becoming older. And that is what both Beldin and I think would be abusive. If you want the advantages of being older, then you should have to suffer through the penalties of it as well, just like Bruno, the Elder, and other Old characters had to. You shouldn't be able to wait until you can polymorph to ignore the physical penalties, then decide to become older.
Jindl 11-11-04, 02:24 PM	@Pittbull - I noticed that as a Stone Giant, Angosh is now a Large creature. The PAO effect automatically enlarges his equipment to match his new form. However, you need to reflect the increased damage for the new size of his weapons. You already adjusted his natural weapons, but I think you forgot the spiked chain, armor spikes, etc. -Jindl
Zerone 11-11-04, 02:30 PM	Another point is that this is the CoCo, where the rules are followed. As the rules state, one ages with each passing year. Therefore, one should be able to age their character. This would be a true representation of their build throught time, as it would be in a real campaign... Why else do they include the rules for aging? Do your campaigns not use age and the passing of time? Just some random questions to ponder on an opinionated subject... *•. Z
T'Var 11-11-04, 02:48 PM	I would say that just like in a campain, when you create your charector you can have them start at an older age but once your charector begins its 'life' thats it unless it is played for decades 'in game' as for the unlimited time between fights that makes little since since you can age your caster by 20 years to get more mental skills but the person you are fighting never aged his charector 20 years, the timelines dont mesh
Caterane 11-11-04, 03:42 PM	Well, the Professor has no access to any of the polymorph spells nor would he use them. Ok, was just a thought anyway and I'm 2 levels away from retirement; probably wouldn't've done it just like I don't reduce myself just to get +2 dex. All power to roleplaying :thumbsup: Woohoo! Once the Harvesters and the Professor are gone, I am going to activate my "Next Generation". The Harvester Entity (Human Cleric with madness/darkness) and the Harvestrix (Elan Cleric with trickery/travel), and of course my 30 credits project.
Jindl 11-11-04, 03:45 PM	The Harvester Entity (Human Cleric with madness/darkness) Way ahead of you (see pg 2 of the gladiators thread, under Nemo the Mad). Been working on him for a couple of weeks now, but I still don't have the ability array exactly how I want it. I can't decide if I want to dump Con and become a Lich or go straight cleric to maximize the Insanity score... Well, I'll probably activate him next week, if Yoda wins.
Caterane 11-11-04, 03:49 PM	Lich? Didn't you just say LA gladiators suck?
Beldin 11-11-04, 04:46 PM	I believe he meant the lich progression of the wotc-page which you allowed some long time ago - I believe.
Sindorin 11-11-04, 05:01 PM	All power to roleplaying :thumbsup: Woohoo! Yes, so why doesn't anyone ever post in Roleplaying anymore? :mad:
Jindl 11-11-04, 05:45 PM	No, I meant the actual Lich template from the MM. I didn't say LA characters suck. I said they are tough to play, especially at low levels. However, you have to reach a CL 11 before you can become a Lich, and by that it might not hurt to much to give up a few caster levels. Especially since you gain paralyzing touch, a natural armor boost, some elemental immunities, immunity to mind-affecting abilities, the undead immunity to crits/ability score damage/stunning/etc, and DR 15/magic AND bludgeoning. All in all, I think it may be a pretty useful template, especially for a cleric who can use a bead of karma to regain the lost caster levels. Anyway, its one option I am considering for Nemo.
Caterane 11-11-04, 05:52 PM	Alright; I'll hold my build back and watch. Go ahead with your Madness/Darkness Cleric; ...and if he sucks, I'll post mine and show you how to do it LOL
cellardweller 11-11-04, 06:27 PM	Way ahead of you (see pg 2 of the gladiators thread, under Nemo the Mad). Been working on him for a couple of weeks now, but I still don't have the ability array exactly how I want it. I can't decide if I want to dump Con and become a Lich or go straight cleric to maximize the Insanity score... Well, I'll probably activate him next week, if Yoda wins. Hahaha, that makes three. Great minds think alike huh?
Sindorin 11-11-04, 07:03 PM	That divine stuff inspires me. One question though - we have the gate spell banned, correct? The Glory Domain's level 9 spell is, well, gate... I guess a cleric of Glory domain wouldn't be able to use his 9 domain spell in the fight...
Jindl 11-11-04, 07:03 PM	Hahaha, that makes three. Great minds think alike huh? Indeed. Although I think there are still enough differences (Darkness vs Trickery domains, stat allocations, etc). FYI: You know that you'll take a -12 on your attacks while using the tower shield, right?
Jindl 11-11-04, 07:05 PM	That divine stuff inspires me. One question though - we have the gate spell banned, correct? The Glory Domain's level 9 spell is, well, gate... I guess a cleric of Glory domain wouldn't be able to use his 9 domain spell in the fight... He could memorize the 9th level spell from the other domain, or he could memorize any lower level domain spell in the higher slot or a metamagicked domain spell. He doesn't lose the slot, he just can't cast Gate. FYI: The Madness domain has Random Action as its level 1 domain spell. Random Action does not exist in v3.5. Any thoughts?
Jindl 11-11-04, 07:07 PM	Alright; I'll hold my build back and watch. Go ahead with your Madness/Darkness Cleric; ...and if he sucks, I'll post mine and show you how to do it LOL Yeah, because you really need to try playing another cleric. Why not try something new? Like a paladin, or a ranger, or a sorceror, or a psion, or a druid, or a monk, or a ...
cellardweller 11-11-04, 08:17 PM	FYI: The Madness domain has Random Action as its level 1 domain spell. Random Action does not exist in v3.5. Any thoughts? The spell has been renamed to lesser confusion. They just missed it out on the domain list.
Snommelp 11-11-04, 08:19 PM	That divine stuff inspires me. One question though - we have the gate spell banned, correct? The Glory Domain's level 9 spell is, well, gate... I guess a cleric of Glory domain wouldn't be able to use his 9 domain spell in the fight... That's why you get two domains, my friend. And, if all else fails, you can just switch it over to a cure or inflict spell.
cellardweller 11-11-04, 09:17 PM	That's why you get two domains, my friend. And, if all else fails, you can just switch it over to a cure or inflict spell. Domain spells can't be converted.
Snommelp 11-11-04, 09:32 PM	Domain spells can't be converted. hm... you're right. I skipped over that part last time I read it. woops...
Pittbull 11-12-04, 02:37 AM	@Pittbull - I noticed that as a Stone Giant, Angosh is now a Large creature. The PAO effect automatically enlarges his equipment to match his new form. However, you need to reflect the increased damage for the new size of his weapons. You already adjusted his natural weapons, but I think you forgot the spiked chain, armor spikes, etc. -Jindl That makes the polymorph even better! Thank you, did not know that! Another Question: Is it allowed to combine polymorph with expansion?
Ashenai 11-12-04, 03:51 AM	That makes the polymorph even better! Thank you, did not know that! Another Question: Is it allowed to combine polymorph with expansion? Magical effects that increase size do not stack. Polymorph and Expansion can only stack if the Polymorph didn't increase you in size. For instance, if Angosh (medium creature) had polymorphed into an Elf (also medium), you could then stack Expansion or Enlarge Person on top of that, and end up with a Large (or Huge, if Expansion is augmented enough) Elf. If you polymorph him into a Giant, though, you can't stack an Expansion on top of that to further increase his size. On a completely different note: my computer decided that it would be a good idea to write a few random bits into its boot sector. Until I fix this (long and frustrating work), I'm going to be using a friend's computer. Since I don't want to be installing anything on it, I can't use Yahoo Chat for a while. Everyone who was communicating with me via Yahoo will have to stick to PMs for now. :(
Pittbull 11-12-04, 04:25 AM	Thanks! @ All: There is a new idea: If allready have a wounding weapon, can you combine it with the psionic feat wounding attack. Both scores are unnamed, one derives from the blood-loss the other from the vicious force of the strike. It'll be very nice if you deal 2 points of Con-Damage on every hit.
Magagumo 11-12-04, 09:37 AM	They stack, but since you must expend focus to use the Wounding Attack, you can only use it once per round, and then must spend a full-round/move action (based on feats) to gain the focus back for more wounding- At maximum optimacy, you end up getting a full-round attack and wounding in there (provided your opponent doesn't move)- it just requires a few feats {Hustle & Psionic Lion's Charge is really the key- though a polymorphed outsider, changed into a leonal, using Hustle, works just as well... *sigh*} On a compeltely different note- it seems the "Dimension Door" cannonball trick has been completely illegitimate for some time... I present the quote from the SRD on the Conjuration School- bearer of Dimension Door, Teleport, & Summons "A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it." By this similar logic- one avoids the "Dimension Door crush," "Orca Whale drop," "Greater Teleport into space," or "Greater Teleport and Drop" techniques. Thoughts? This stememd from a discussion of someone teleporting an enemy 3 miles above the ground, then casting Fly/Feather Fall as they plummetted- I think it has merit for us as well.
Jindl 11-12-04, 10:26 AM	On a compeltely different note- it seems the "Dimension Door" cannonball trick has been completely illegitimate for some time... I present the quote from the SRD on the Conjuration School- bearer of Dimension Door, Teleport, & Summons "A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it." By this similar logic- one avoids the "Dimension Door crush," "Orca Whale drop," "Greater Teleport into space," or "Greater Teleport and Drop" techniques. Thoughts? This stememd from a discussion of someone teleporting an enemy 3 miles above the ground, then casting Fly/Feather Fall as they plummetted- I think it has merit for us as well. Hrmm. Interesting. How does "a surface capable of supporting itself" apply to a flying creature. By definition, flying creatures can support themself upon air. So does that mean a flying creature could DD/teleport/be summoned into the air?
SnarkHunter 11-12-04, 01:24 PM	That would only work for a creature that either has magical flight or could hover though, since otherwise appearing in a stationary position would cause them to plummet. Thats more so for DD I suppose since you can't take movement actions afterward.
Jindl 11-12-04, 01:30 PM	That would only work for a creature that either has magical flight or could hover though, since otherwise appearing in a stationary position would cause them to plummet. Thats more so for DD I suppose since you can't take movement actions afterward. Since you must have good or perfect manueverability to hover (or the hover feat), and a PC with a fly spell has good manueverability, then this limitation won't apply if the DD'ing PC has a fly running on them. For those average (or worse) flyers, what if they took the move action prior to DD'ing to go ahead and fly half their speed (required to stay airborne)? Since they did fly half their speed that round, they shouldn't stall. Right?
Magagumo 11-12-04, 01:40 PM	I think you might be correct, Jindl, both regarding the good/perfect (the concept crossed my mind immmediately after posting, but work summoned), and with the average and lower manueverabilities. Frankly, I know there's a physical law represented by the minimum forward speed rule, but I don't know the exact specifics so as to say moving prior to the DD would cover you. *Shrug* I would think that perhaps the momentum of flight would be carried through with the magic, and thus it would work fine. Besides, D&D breaks physics thousands of times over, so I see no reason why we should have to worry or quibble too much o'er it :). Let's just say, if any person in the CoCO wishes to DD into the air without a good+ speed or the previous action of initiating hovering, that they must at least move 1/2 their speed prior to the DD.
Caterane 11-12-04, 02:18 PM	Yeah, because you really need to try playing another cleric. Why not try something new? Like a paladin, or a ranger, or a sorceror, or a psion, or a druid, or a monk, or a ... I think I have mentioned it once but I am not here to test builds. I like to play a fun character with emphasize on the roleplaying part, and I don't want to drop the whole Harvester storyline. Also, I like to play exotic characters like Zedarak or Ixenthor, races that I cannot play in my group. However, if there is a slight percentage that I really test a build here, see it that way: I have learned from both Harvesters and now try to improve them. But the Next Harvester Generation is future talk. There's still Zedarak, Ixenthor, and Ebelin who have to reach lvl 20 first. Re: Dimdoor. Interesting indeed. Since a nonmagical flyer needs to use its wings, he would be forced to appear on the ground in any case. Now the question is: do creatures with magical good/perfect maneuverability need an act of thought to hold them aloft or could they even sleep in the air?
Battousai2005 11-12-04, 07:03 PM	Now that I actually am fighting, I'd like to pose a question not really answered anywhere. What are the rules for called shots? You know, I aim for the arm, or something. I think it was mentioned somewhere in the core books, but I never found it. Anyone wanna tell me? I think it might make the arena a bit more exciting.
Jindl 11-12-04, 08:08 PM	Now that I actually am fighting, I'd like to pose a question not really answered anywhere. What are the rules for called shots? You know, I aim for the arm, or something. I think it was mentioned somewhere in the core books, but I never found it. Anyone wanna tell me? I think it might make the arena a bit more exciting. Doesn't exist in the core rules.
KerlanRayne 11-13-04, 04:27 AM	"A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."Note that is talks about other creatures but not about the caster. Could be debated. KerlanRayne
KerlanRayne 11-13-04, 04:35 AM	Magical effects that increase size do not stack. Polymorph and Expansion can only stack if the Polymorph didn't increase you in size.This has been hotly debated. Basically it comes down to this, does Polymorph Increase your size, or does it merely Change it? If you are and Elf and become large, that is an increase in size. If you are an Elf and become an Ogre, that is a change in size. You are now a completely different creature with no link to your previous form, therefore Ogre is now the base form. I'm leaning towards them stacking, but I can see both angles. KerlanRayne
Ashenai 11-13-04, 05:02 AM	This has been hotly debated. It was hotly debated, but it ended in (as far as I know) unanimous agreement. All evidence we could find (and quite a lot of searching was done) pointed to the conclusion that they don't stack.
Battousai2005 11-13-04, 09:56 AM	I think Ashenai is right on that one. I think the original argument was a druid using his shapechange ability followed by animal growth. I also believe that he was right in that it is a dead argument and was, while not unanimous, voted down. I myself had to vote against it. The fact is, a change in size, by definition, means that you increase or decrease. There isn't a thrid option.
barrel_master 11-14-04, 05:38 PM	@ Beldin or Kaigan, do either of you plan on setting your lvl 12 guys ready next week? Also, if no one fights, could I possibly use a credit, set both my dudes ready and have them fight eachother? I remember the last time someone did this there was some contoversy.
Caterane 11-14-04, 06:54 PM	@ALL: A new picture has been added to the CoCo Gallery: Beldin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=3982959#post3982959) If you have a picture of yourself send it to me and you will be added to the World thread!
Snommelp 11-14-04, 09:23 PM	You know, I created my level 2 Cedric because I wanted to see if my level 4 Cedric from a real game could survive in singles combat. So far, level 2 Cedric has lost twice and won zero times. If he loses again next week, I'll consider my question answered and retire Cedric.
Ashenai 11-14-04, 10:36 PM	Ouch... First of all, if he loses another fight, he can "bump" up to level 3: three consecutive losses allow you to gain a level. Secondly, low level fights are very dependent on luck (and, in the case of Yoda, on using Power Stones well beyond your manifester level). I wouldn't attach too much importance to these two losses if I were you. PS: Since I believe you're not familiar with Psioics: the way Yoda defeated you was the Psionic equivalent of a level 2 mage killing you with a CL 9 scroll of Magic Missile.
Snommelp 11-14-04, 10:41 PM	...you're right, I didn't realize that's how he beat me. If you really think the low level fights are based on luck, then I suppose I'll let Cedric stick around for a few more fights. However, when I originally built him he was a healer, not a fighter, so I'm not sure if he'll have much success even at higher levels.
Ashenai 11-14-04, 10:49 PM	Hmm... probably not. Healers are much better suited for a party role than for solo fights. I believe the most successful Clerics in the Arena are those that buff themselves up and go into melee, like the Harvesters. At any rate, best of luck to Cedric on all his endeavours, in the Arena or out of it. :)
cellardweller 11-15-04, 12:08 AM	I believe the most successful Clerics in the Arena are those that buff themselves up and go into melee, like the Harvesters. Or summoners, Johan 1, Harvester 0 :gah: <runs for cover>
Snommelp 11-15-04, 12:56 AM	At any rate, best of luck to Cedric on all his endeavours, in the Arena or out of it. :) Oh, I have no dount Cedric will do fine outside of the Arena. After all, he's got a paladin and a half-ogre to hide behind in the campaign, so he can actually focus on healing like he was originally built. But I think I'll have to change Cedric's memorized spells for next fight to capitalize on the buff idea... maybe...
Caterane 11-15-04, 07:14 AM	Or summoners, Johan 1, Harvester 0 :gah: <runs for cover> You mean the Harvester (Caterane) vs Johan (Cellardweller): Jindl fight? Hrmpf, you had 1 hp left and I failed the 20% misschance to harvest Johan! What about a revanche? Reactivate Johan, bring him to 20, and we do a rematch.
Jindl 11-15-04, 08:17 AM	PS: Since I believe you're not familiar with Psioics: the way Yoda defeated you was the Psionic equivalent of a level 2 mage killing you with a CL 9 scroll of Magic Missile. I think it is similar, although Yoda only used a ML5 stone for the attack and a potion for the invisibility (and the rest were irrelevant in the fight). However, I really don't think Yoda could have won in any other way. Keep in mind that as a Blue, he is a LA +1 race (something which I will never figure out the reason for). Without resorting to using power stones, I don't think Yoda would have a chance against a Lvl 2 cleric, even if the cleric was focused on healing. Sadly, those powerstones/potions cost 950 gp, which means Yoda expended 95% of his wealth in that one fight. Talk about an expensive victory... But I think I'll have to change Cedric's memorized spells for next fight to capitalize on the buff idea... maybe... Just a couple of suggestions for your PC (which I think will be helpful in your RL campaign as well): 1. Trade Combat Casting for Skill Focus (Concentration): Combat Casting is limited only to casting defensively. You'll find that there are MANY other times you'll need to use concentration, such as when you're mounted, or on a ship, or struck for damage in combat, or subject to continuing damage, or distracted by a nondamaging spell, or entangled, or etc. It's much better to have a +3 from Skill Focus on all these checks, than to have a +4 only when you're casting defensively. 2. Trade the Healing Domain for the Good domain: While the role of the healer is a noble one (and my RL campaign group would love to have a player like you who was so committed to playing a healer), the Healing domain is fairly weak. The extra +1 hp of healing you gain (at least until you hit the +5/+10/+15/etc. cap for your level) isn't really worth much. A domain like Good, which grants a bonus caster level on all good spells will really serve you better. Protection from Evil, Aid, Summon Monster (good), Holy Smite, Holy Word - all of these spells are powerful in a party, especially when your caster level is raised by the domain and your party is all of good alignment. I'm sure your half-ogre friend would love a protection from evil - really helps prevent him from being charmed and killing the party. And Aid is better than a cure spell, giving 1d8+level in temorary hps and a +1 to hit/saves. All those summon spells you memorized last a little bit longer (and at 1/rnd per level, an extra round is important). Holy Smite and Holy Word all awesome spells to cast from the back row, because with good compainions you only hurt the bad guys. You can still convert all of your non-domain spells to healing as necessary, so you still have the role of the healer covered. But I think the Good domain will serve you much better than the Healing domain. 3. Don't memorize Endure Elements: In 3.0, Endure Elements was a nice spell, giving you Fire or Cold resistance 5. In 3.5 it no longer grants any resistances. Don't memorize this domain spell. Memorize the domain spell from your other domain (whatever it is). I hope these suggestions help. I don't know if you had a specific PrC in mind, in which case you may need some of the things I suggest changing. But the above changes should make for a better cleric, both in the arena and in your RL campaign. -Jindl
Battousai2005 11-15-04, 09:43 AM	So, anyway, after Kage's recent loss, I've decided to do something I thought I'd never do in the arena: I am going to make a caster build. Unfortunately, it seems like most of them have been taken. (Grey elves...grumble grumble grumble) But I think I found a nice little creature to make them cry. I just need...woah. Thats a lot... Ok, not characters are active this week. I am, however, requesting any fights you can spare for me. Thanks.
Jindl 11-15-04, 09:50 AM	Ok, not characters are active this week. I am, however, requesting any fights you can spare for me. Thanks. Just a reminder: If you run X number of fights, you gain X number of credits, whether you have 1 active PC or 0 active PC's. So you can still have 1 gladiator ready and gain maximum credits for your work. Also, make sure you send a PM to the pitlords account requesting more fights to run. -Jindl
Beldin 11-15-04, 01:03 PM	@Barrel, Kaigan: Delayar is ready if Enilias does not want to fight.
cellardweller 11-15-04, 09:37 PM	Reactivate Johan, bring him to 20, and we do a rematch. I wouldn't want to hurt Harvey's win/loss ratio any more than I already have :smirk:. Don't worry, he'll come out of retirement to take Harvey 3 down a notch or two if he gets to big for his britches.
Pittbull 11-16-04, 03:52 AM	I wouldn't want to hurt Harvey's win/loss ratio any more than I already have :smirk:. Yeah, but I'd like to hurt his ratio! :smirk: But there is a problem: Angosh is by far the underdog in his fight against the Harvester 2. Cat thinks there will be almost no chance to beat his character and I have to admit he's fairly right. I will turn on the CPU which sits in my shoulders and search for way to make the impossible possible. But I feel so :allalone: , so I invite everybody to help me. I haven't even advanced Angosh to his next level and have plenty of money to spent. So, if anybody wants to give me a helping hand for the right tactic, you're very welcome! Thanks a lot, Pitt! EDIT: Just send me your PM.
Caterane 11-16-04, 04:28 AM	Resistance is futile! http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/borgsmile.gif
turalisj 11-16-04, 07:15 AM	is it too late to post my character?
Pitlords 11-16-04, 07:32 AM	is it too late to post my character? It is too late to withdraw now :) Adronis Greencloak has been added to the Roster and will be paired tomorow
barrel_master 11-16-04, 11:40 AM	@Barrel, Kaigan: Delayar is ready if Enilias does not want to fight. Sweet, just a heads up as I feel you've done me a favor... I'll probably be activating Octavian and chances are good... if you don't have a special cohort or something I won't bring in my 'leadership' dude (in this case a 'dudette' I suppose)
Jindl 11-16-04, 11:54 AM	It is too late to withdraw now :) Adronis Greencloak has been added to the Roster and will be paired tomorow Please note the violation Myrridin posted on this PC.
T'Var 11-16-04, 12:13 PM	Has anyone else noticed that the 'Red Wizard' is nolonger in the SRD I know there are several Reds here in the Arena, will this cause issues?
Jindl 11-16-04, 12:18 PM	Has anyone else noticed that the 'Red Wizard' is nolonger in the SRD I know there are several Reds here in the Arena, will this cause issues? AFAIK, it was never in the SRD. However, it is in the DMG, and as one of the 3 core rulebooks, that meets the requirements to be usable in the CoCo. So there shouldn't be any issues. This is similar to why you can play a githyanki or githzerai, because even though those races aren't in the SRD, they are in the MM, which is one of the 3 core rulebooks.
Huan 11-16-04, 12:19 PM	Has anyone else noticed that the 'Red Wizard' is nolonger in the SRD I know there are several Reds here in the Arena, will this cause issues? It shouldn't be an ex post facto case. Since we all know the Red Wizard exists in the DMG in real life, there should be no problem.
MysticMonk2005 11-16-04, 06:37 PM	Question 1: Do horseshoes of speed work on pegasi? Question 2: How does barding work? Like if I was to make mithril breastplate for it. Would that still make it considered light armor?
Ashenai 11-16-04, 08:36 PM	Question 1: Do horseshoes of speed work on pegasi? Yes, but probably not in the way you'd like. They only increase the animal's land speed, not its fly speed. So a pegasus with the Horseshoes would have a land speed of 90, but would still only be able to fly at 120. Question 2: How does barding work? Like if I was to make mithril breastplate for it. Would that still make it considered light armor? Sure. Pretty expensive, though; you add the +4000 gp for making it Mithril first, and then you multiply the whole shebang by the barding multiplier (x4 for a Pegasus). In other words, Mithril Breastplate barding for a Pegasus would cost 16800 gp. (4200 gp for a mithril breastplate, then multiply by x4 for barding.)
scaryfroman 11-16-04, 09:46 PM	I was recently wondering about psionic tattoos, after looking at some characters using them, and the pros and cons versus potions. Looking at the SRD, i noticed this: Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos. Is this upheld in the CoCo? if so, some people may have to change force screen tat prices.
Piuro 11-17-04, 04:59 AM	Derthark Thunderbeard Optional: Short character description, or favoured quote, or the like. Max. 3 lines. Gender: Male Race: Duergar Medium, 4'7" tall, 205lbs, 42 yrs old no hair; grey eyes; pale skin Alignment: LN Class: 1st lvl fighter, .. ECL 2 Speaks common, undercommon, and dwarven Notice that in [] are the conditional variables, like the Str when raging Str 18 , +4 ..16 pts Dex 14, +2 ..6 pts Con 18, +4 ..10 pts (+2 racial) Int 10, -- .. 2 pts Wis 10, -- .. 2 pts Cha 04, -3 .. 0pts (-4 racial) We have a new board loser for ugliest!
Pittbull 11-17-04, 05:11 AM	We have a new board loser for ugliest! Yeah, that's the way Angosh started. But let tell you, is tough life with such an low Cha-score, beware of the Ego-Whip! :) Edit: Oh, first of of all "Hello Dude!", let me welcome you in the CoCo. It's nice place to have fun! "Einzelgänger" is very cool! ;)
Piuro 11-17-04, 05:15 AM	Haha. Ego whip... I win.
Piuro 11-17-04, 05:20 AM	Haha, I dragged him into the CoCo. Well, at least he can turn invisible. Haha, you got to love a Huge Greataxe. Nice that the only thing forbidding a weapon of that size is in the complete warrior. :)
Einzelgaenger 11-17-04, 05:22 AM	Yeah, that's the way Angosh started. But let tell you, is tough life with such an low Cha-score, beware of the Ego-Whip! :) Edit: Oh, first of of all "Hello Dude!", let me welcome you in the CoCo. It's nice place to have fun! "Einzelgänger" is very cool! ;) Thank you! I plan to have fun, and only hope I can close quickly enough to survive and then disrupt any further spells.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 11-17-04, 07:31 AM	.....I need seriously help whit my cleric's tactics. Any of the tactics what I use does not seem to work.......I am not used to casters.........
T'Var 11-17-04, 04:02 PM	If a 2nd lvl wizard cast from a scroll of MM CL9 and failed his CL check, but made his will save, is the scroll used or is it still intact? same question if he fails his will save.
Jindl 11-17-04, 04:08 PM	If a 2nd lvl wizard cast from a scroll of MM CL9 and failed his CL check, but made his will save, is the scroll used or is it still intact? same question if he fails his will save. Pass CL check - Spell is cast and scroll is consumed. Fail CL check, pass Will save - Nothing happens and scroll is not consumed. Fail CL check, fail Will save - Mishap occurs and scroll is consumed. In the CoCo, a Mishap deals damage to the PC = 1d6 per spell level of the scroll.
Piuro 11-17-04, 06:53 PM	Hehe, that greataxes chance of a super-critical (20, 20 to confirm, and max damage +STR [112]) is 40,623,982,670,000,000 to 1. Watch him do it first try.
Pitlords 11-17-04, 08:04 PM	Pairings done Send your tactic as soon as possible to your pitlord Pitlords may begin running fights without tactics on saturday Fights due monday (or sooner) Late penalties apply on tuesday Credit changes: +2: Caterane +1: Ashenai, Snark, Jindl, Zerone, T'Var, Scaryfroman, Piuro, Snommelp, Ayatoshi, Battousais, and Huan -1: Beldin
Jindl 11-17-04, 08:55 PM	Level 2 [Taryn Thunderstorm (Jindl) out (# of PCs)] Huh? Taryn is supposed to be my one and only active PC. How can she be out for # of PC's? Khalil Odar (KerlanRayne) vs Yoda IV (Jindl): Ayatoshi Huh? Why is Yoda IV paired? His subject line reads "Updating for 17 Nov 04". He is not set ready. He hasn't purchased any equipment since his last fight. I intentionally didn't want him ready because I wanted Taryn to be paired. Please fix this. -Jindl
Pitlords 11-18-04, 04:11 AM	Huh? Taryn is supposed to be my one and only active PC. How can she be out for # of PC's? Huh? Why is Yoda IV paired? His subject line reads "Updating for 17 Nov 04". He is not set ready. He hasn't purchased any equipment since his last fight. I intentionally didn't want him ready because I wanted Taryn to be paired. Please fix this. -Jindl This is Yoda's headline: Updating for 17 Nov 04 I just saw 17 Nov and closed the window. Better not include any dates. The roster has been changed accordingly (changes in red): Level 2 [Sir Anton (Scaryfroman) out (# of PCs)] Cedric Fischer (Snommelp) vs Luken the Renegade (Huan): Piuro Harathin (Vipergtsmk) vs Sîn (Kemal): T'Var Taryn Thunderstorm (Jindl) vs Derthark (Einzelgaenger): Snommelp Level 3 [Khalil Odar (KerlanRayne) out (voluntarily)] Erkatis Mori (Sindorin) vs Alavar the Blaze (Kazzaroth): Scaryfroman Malsvir Haurach (Piuro) vs Zhaiyad (Beldin): Ayatoshi Credit changes: Scaryfroman +1, Zerone -1
Jindl 11-18-04, 09:05 AM	Thanks. And sorry if the date was confusing. -Jindl
Zepher 11-18-04, 03:39 PM	to be posted elsewhere!
T'Var 11-18-04, 03:42 PM	Wrong section Zepher, new gladiators are posted in Gladiators & FAQ thread
Zepher 11-18-04, 03:48 PM	thanks, i'll do that now
Jindl 11-18-04, 04:06 PM	Derthark Thunderbeard Last edited by Einzelgaenger : Today at 03:09 AM. @Einzelgaenger - Please don't edit your gladiator after pairings are announced. Officially, you are supposed to forfeit your match if you do. Since I'm your opponent, I would like to continue the match as planned. So please, no more editing. The deadline for editing PC's is 9 PM GMT on Wednesday. -Jindl
Snommelp 11-18-04, 04:12 PM	@Einzelgaenger - Please don't edit your gladiator after pairings are announced. Officially, you are supposed to forfeit your match if you do. Since I'm your opponent, I would like to continue the match as planned. So please, no more editing. The deadline for editing PC's is 9 PM GMT on Wednesday. -Jindl If you're alright with it, then I will still run the fight. But this means I have to go back and recopy his character sheet... why did such a lazy person as me decide to pitlord? Oh yeah, because running fights is fun. :D
T'Var 11-18-04, 04:18 PM	Alavar the Blaze Last edited by Kazzaroth Pan'theon : Today at 03:37 PM. just surfing around and noticed this also naughty naughty
Zerone 11-18-04, 04:44 PM	Credit changes: Scaryfroman +1, Zerone -1 Why do I have a -1 and not a 0? Zerone
Caterane 11-18-04, 08:32 PM	@Zoro: This is the relative credit change, not the absolute one. Originally you had 2 PCs and 2 fights = +1 credits. Now that you lost one fight due to the new constellation, you get a -1 for a total of 0 credits this week.
Sindorin 11-18-04, 11:31 PM	@ Zepher - Nice avatar
Einzelgaenger 11-19-04, 02:56 AM	@Einzelgaenger - Please don't edit your gladiator after pairings are announced. Officially, you are supposed to forfeit your match if you do. Since I'm your opponent, I would like to continue the match as planned. So please, no more editing. The deadline for editing PC's is 9 PM GMT on Wednesday. -Jindl Oh crap. I'm so sorry, I got Grenich Mean Time confused w/ Mountain Time. For the record, the only things I changed after pairing were modifying the default tactics, which don't matter, since I sent in somewhat different tactics, and my favorite quote. I apologize for any inconvenience I caused.
Battousai2005 11-19-04, 09:38 AM	Why Battousais? I think that implies that there is more than one of me. I assure you, I am only one person on this account. Well, unless you count the whole split personality. And there are the people talking to me in my head. While I'm posting, did we ever come to a conclusion as to whether or not racial HD get the bonus to ability scores? Just curious. I have a build that would...profit...from such rulings.
Jindl 11-19-04, 09:47 AM	While I'm posting, did we ever come to a conclusion as to whether or not racial HD get the bonus to ability scores? Just curious. I have a build that would...profit...from such rulings. It does not. See the MM, pg 290, the last sentence of the "Ability Score Improvement" paragraph.
Battousai2005 11-19-04, 09:53 AM	Ah, thanks. Oh well. It works out anyway.
T'Var 11-19-04, 10:21 AM	what are the CoCo rules on aquiring a templet once gladiator has been created. i.e. a ECL 10 human fighter wants to add the vampire or lyconthrope aquired templet. is that possable within CoCo?
Jindl 11-19-04, 11:17 AM	Our FAQ/Default Character sheet/Quickstart Guide need maintanence. I will be updating these items regularly as the Elders reach new decisions and new rules are implemented. I would also like to provide a forum where players could identify changes that need to be made as well as make suggestions for more changes. So please check out the new thread FAQ Update Suggestions and contribute your suggestions for changes that need to be made. -Jindl
Jindl 11-19-04, 11:21 AM	what are the CoCo rules on aquiring a templet once gladiator has been created. i.e. a ECL 10 human fighter wants to add the vampire or lyconthrope aquired templet. is that possable within CoCo? According to Elder ruling, it is possible. The cost is 4 credits per ECL added by the template. Note that the ECL increase for winning/bumping can reduce the cost by 4 credits. (ie. A level 10 gladiator who just lost for the first time can add the ghost template for a cost of 4x 5 ECL's = 20 credits. A level 10 gladiator who just won/bumped to level 11 can add the ghost template for a cost of 4x 4 ECL's = 16 credits. Both examples produce a Level 10 Ghost gladiator.)
T'Var 11-19-04, 11:31 AM	According to Elder ruling, it is possible. The cost is 4 credits per ECL added by the template. Note that the ECL increase for winning/bumping can reduce the cost by 4 credits. (ie. A level 10 gladiator who just lost for the first time can add the ghost template for a cost of 4x 5 ECL's = 20 credits. A level 10 gladiator who just won/bumped to level 11 can add the ghost template for a cost of 4x 4 ECL's = 16 credits. Both examples produce a Level 10 Ghost gladiator.) would that Level 10 gladiator still be ECL 10 or would he jump to ECL 15, and if he jumped would he gain extra gold as if he had won 5 matchs?
Vivat Grendel 11-19-04, 12:03 PM	Well, I think I will break my streak of Longest Lurker of the Arena. I have been following the Arena since two incarnations before this one. And I have to say, Bes was robbed in his level 5 fight. First, I want to thank everyone for the great work here. I have learned a lot about the game, things that I never would have gotten on my own by just reading, and I think it has really helped my table game. Background: Been playing for 23 years, did nine years Army (combat engineer), owned a comicbook/gaming store for 7, work retail now (Best Buy wireless section). Living in Columbus, Ohio, really sorry I missed Snark at Origins but didn't read that you were coming till too late. We will have to get together this year, I'm 15 minutes from the convention center. I will get Cat a pic first chance I get. Reason I break my silence, I have a proposal for fundamentally changing the advancement system of the COArena. Give it a look and reply in the discussion thread. If that goes over well, I have a proposal for alternate map and setting selection that I believe can be fair and interesting.
Sindorin 11-19-04, 12:47 PM	Make a Gladiator :)
Zerone 11-19-04, 04:27 PM	If there are any Halo 2 fans out there, my handle is The Zerone... go figure... :D Just shoot me a friends request and say who you are here on the boards and we'll have some fun! *•. Z
T'Var 11-19-04, 04:43 PM	sorry man, but halo 2 sux.....the story line is ok until the end where it just tanks, the graphics are the same, no better, no worse, and the two weapon style is less effective than just using the standerd machinegun played it, beat it in 6 hours was not impressed like I was with the original
Jindl 11-19-04, 04:47 PM	would that Level 10 gladiator still be ECL 10 or would he jump to ECL 15, and if he jumped would he gain extra gold as if he had won 5 matchs? He would become ECL 15 and would gain the extra gold as appropriate. His total gold received (from start thru ECL 15) would be the same as any ECL 15 gladiator.
turalisj 11-19-04, 05:07 PM	i didnt see my character in the matchings so i am guessing i will get an extra amount of time to build him.
Zerone 11-19-04, 06:05 PM	sorry man, but halo 2 sux.....the story line is ok until the end where it just tanks, the graphics are the same, no better, no worse, and the two weapon style is less effective than just using the standerd machinegun played it, beat it in 6 hours was not impressed like I was with the original Meh... It's not as original as the 1st, but it is still fun to shoot my friends or work together as a team and chit chat while we are all playing a game online. The single player is rather boring, but the multiplayer is fun for me. :cool:
Snommelp 11-20-04, 02:00 AM	I'm looking at my combatants, and saw a potential ruling issue. I'd like to get it out of the way, even if I don't end up needing it. If Character A takes a swing at the mounted Character B and misses B's AC but hits the AC of the mount, will the mount take the hit?
Ashenai 11-20-04, 02:14 AM	No. The attacker has to decide in advance who he's swinging at. Also, you people need to stop playing Halo 2 and start playing Half-Life 2. :D @turalisj: Did you write "Ready for November 17" (or something similar) in the title line of your character post? If not, it is assumed that you're still working on the character, and it won't be paired.
Sindorin 11-20-04, 03:42 AM	all your Xbox games are belong to me... DOOM III well, all I have is the demo, but it is nonetheless rather fun. :rolleyes:
Ashenai 11-20-04, 05:57 AM	Yeah, it's a lot less fun when you can't see a freaking thing suring the entire 60-hour game. It's fun for a couple of hours, but the entire game is the same. Can't reccommend it.
Sindorin 11-20-04, 01:13 PM	Well, did you like the original doom or doom II at all? The demo was fun but I probably wouldn't play the real game. I was just being sort of sarcastic. Funny thing is, with all this video gaming going on, I ended up over at a friend's place playing Star Wars: Battlefront. I like that game, even if there are some issues.
Ashenai 11-20-04, 01:47 PM	Well, did you like the original doom or doom II at all? Hell yeah. Played both tons. Doom 3 is nothing like Doom 1 and 2, unfortunately. The demo was fun but I probably wouldn't play the real game. I was just being sort of sarcastic. Funny thing is, with all this video gaming going on, I ended up over at a friend's place playing Star Wars: Battlefront. I like that game, even if there are some issues. I say again; you need to get Half-Life 2. :)
Snommelp 11-20-04, 01:54 PM	Forget all these new games. I'm sticking with the classics, like Final Fantasy for the NES.
Caterane 11-20-04, 03:49 PM	Tattarataaaa We have a new picture in the CoCoGallery (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=3982959#post3982959). Sindorin and a small part of a cute girl have been added to the World Thread! There's an empty space next to him now. Does anyone want to fill it? :D
Snommelp 11-20-04, 04:13 PM	Tattarataaaa We have a new picture in the CoCoGallery (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=3982959#post3982959). Sindorin and a small part of a cute girl have been added to the World Thread! There's an empty space next to him now. Does anyone want to fill it? :D I'd love to, but the only pictures I have of me are my graduation pictures, and I'm sure I look better without the cap and gown... I'll try to find a good picture when I go home for Thanksgiving.
Caterane 11-20-04, 04:32 PM	Why not send me the graduation picture now and replace it later when you have the better one? We are so curious :)
turalisj 11-20-04, 05:23 PM	i am allowed to play a psionic character, correct?
Sindorin 11-20-04, 05:26 PM	Yep, use 3.5 SRD Psionics
turalisj 11-20-04, 07:10 PM	thanks. i just got the eph thursday. :D
Sindorin 11-20-04, 10:55 PM	I love that book. Somehow, getting that book changed my whole perspective about this game, options didn't seem so limited after I understood psionics.
turalisj 11-20-04, 11:13 PM	i'm avenging my fallen dragon as a tiefling psychic warrior half dragon. im going to be a xeph soulknife in this one
Caterane 11-21-04, 04:55 AM	Wow. The next picture came sooner than expected. Snommelp, prizewinner for having the shiniest robe, has been added to the World Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=3982959#post3982959)!! Who is next? Don't be shy!! http://www.1a-network.de/images/cgi-bin/gbs/smilies/moron.gif Edit: LOL I just found something. Go to Google.com (http://www.google.com) and type in "weapons of mass destruction", then hit the "I'm feeling lucky" button! Read the error message
Jindl 11-21-04, 12:49 PM	thanks. i just got the eph thursday. :D Please note that the entire XPHB is not included in the SRD. Some races (like thri-kreen) are not allowed in the CoCo. The primary reason for this is that all players/pitlords are assumed to have the 3 Core Rulebooks and access to the SRD (including FAQ's, Errata, and Rules of the Game). So only material from these sources is allowed. -Jindl
Zerone 11-21-04, 01:34 PM	Please note that the entire XPHB is not included in the SRD. Some races (like thri-kreen) are not allowed in the CoCo. The primary reason for this is that all players/pitlords are assumed to have the 3 Core Rulebooks and access to the SRD (including FAQ's, Errata, and Rules of the Game). So only material from these sources is allowed. -Jindl Is there not the words 'Core Rulebook' written on the outside of the EPH? If so, why should we ban part of it? If not, why do we use the book? As long as we are here, Red Wizards have to be from Forgotten Realms, correct? Well, that is not core, as the core world is Greyhawk...?
Jindl 11-21-04, 01:47 PM	Is there not the words 'Core Rulebook' written on the outside of the EPH? If so, why should we ban part of it? If not, why do we use the book? I don't know if the words are there or not, because I don't own the book. Which is indicative of the problem. Please refer to what I stated was the primary reason - "The primary reason for this is that all players/pitlords are assumed to have the 3 Core Rulebooks and access to the SRD (including FAQ's, Errata, and Rules of the Game)." We do not and cannot assume that players have access to the EXPB. As long as we are here, Red Wizards have to be from Forgotten Realms, correct? Well, that is not core, as the core world is Greyhawk...? Two things about the Red Wizard: 1. It's in the DMG. 2. I voted against allowing it because it is campaign specific, but was overruled by the rest of the Elders. So that's why its here. -Jindl
Sindorin 11-21-04, 02:52 PM	erm, that is a good point - i do own the book and it does not say 'core' anywhere on the exterior. In fact, it is labeled as "supplement" by the Dungeons & Dragons logo. Jindl, I was not here when the Red Wizard was voted on, but I agree with you in voting against it now that you mention it - if we can't be a Thri Kreen, why can we be a red wizard? It's also kind of funny that I have the first Red Wizard Gladiator in the arena...
Zerone 11-21-04, 04:13 PM	erm, that is a good point - i do own the book and it does not say 'core' anywhere on the exterior. In fact, it is labeled as "supplement" by the Dungeons & Dragons logo. Jindl, I was not here when the Red Wizard was voted on, but I agree with you in voting against it now that you mention it - if we can't be a Thri Kreen, why can we be a red wizard? It's also kind of funny that I have the first Red Wizard Gladiator in the arena... Well, at least the Red Wizard is in the DMG, a Core Rulebook... while psionics is not... What does everyone else think about this? This is important to me as this affects both of my characters... *•. Z
Snommelp 11-21-04, 04:19 PM	Well, at least the Red Wizard is in the DMG, a Core Rulebook... while psionics is not... What does everyone else think about this? This is important to me as this affects both of my characters... *•. Z I'm personally not a big fan of psionics, and that's not just because my previous fight was against a psion who slaughtered me. Psionics are so similar to magic that to me it seems like WotC decided to let us playtest a new idea on how to make magic work. I simply don't like the idea of two different systems in one game for effectively the same thing.
Sindorin 11-21-04, 07:16 PM	I guess it just owes to the fact that "Core" is the three core rulebooks and "Core" is also the SRD. the Psionics handbook may not be in a core rulebook (well, some psionics are present in the monster manual...) but it is present in the SRD. Thri Kreen are not in the rulebooks or the srd, so my question stands corrected. Originally I didn't pay much attention to the srd, i paid attention to what i saw in the books.
Caterane 11-22-04, 09:20 AM	@Huan: Wow!! Great, just great! It's been some time that we had a story in a fight. I think we should do something to make storywriting more attractive, and rewarding. Most people see no reason to write a story when they can just aswell write plain rolls, and I can't blame them on thinking that way. I suggest an extra credit per story! Stories are what keeps Gladius alive and also attracts/keeps members. It should be equal to any other part of the CoCo! Anyway, your story has been added to the World Thread! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4034076#post4034076) (Year 22). Good work!
Ashenai 11-22-04, 09:54 AM	I think our current system is fine. The more options we have, the more interesting the Arena is; therefore, I'm in favour of allowing both the Red Wizard and Psionics.
Sindorin 11-22-04, 09:54 AM	I know it would be lots of work digging around, but I know there have been other stories written by several pitlords (including myself) for the fights. Could they be linked too?
Zerone 11-22-04, 02:09 PM	Attn. Everyone: Please explain the following...? When using the Full Attack Action you are allowed only a 5' step, because in 6 seconds (the length of a round) there is not enough time to move more than 5' and get multiple attacks. Correct? So, If you must wait for your mount to move over half it's movement to Line of Sight before you can fire your bow, how can you execute a Full Attack Action? If a mount double moves and you fire at the midpoint of its double move (1 regular move), it has already ran for 3 of the 6 seconds... so there is no time for a full attack action. Correct? :confused: *•. Z
Caterane 11-22-04, 02:25 PM	@Zoro: How can a human survive three consecutive jumps from 100ft height and still jump around like nothing happened? Because it's in the rules.
Huan 11-22-04, 02:50 PM	New [extended] Arhat vs Solstice (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4883349) is up. Arhat still won, but he took some damage trying to do it (wow, Zerone, Raucus didn't do too bad at all). Congrats to both sides.
Zerone 11-22-04, 03:23 PM	@Zoro: How can a human survive three consecutive jumps from 100ft height and still jump around like nothing happened? Because it's in the rules. Ok, look at it like this... You need 2 things for a Full Ranged Attack Action; to be within any range incriment and to have Line of Sight. A Melee Full Attack Action needs the same 2 things, within 5' and LoS. So why does a Mounted Melee Full Attack only get a 5' mount move, and if it takes more than 5' movement to be in melee range/LoS, it only gets a Single Melee Attack (157 PHB)? Because it must close down the range/get LoS, wasting part of the round in movement. So if a Full Ranged Attack Action does not begin with LoS (a primary requirement for a ranged attack), and the mount has to move more than 5' to aquire LoS, how can it take a full attack action? It must waste some time moving into LoS, just like the melee example above, and therefore cannot execute a full round action. These rules can be found on page 157 PHB, and since they govern the same thing, they cannot contradict each other. Comments? *•. Z
Huan 11-22-04, 04:16 PM	@Huan: Wow!! Great, just great! It's been some time that we had a story in a fight. I think we should do something to make storywriting more attractive, and rewarding. Most people see no reason to write a story when they can just aswell write plain rolls, and I can't blame them on thinking that way. I suggest an extra credit per story! Stories are what keeps Gladius alive and also attracts/keeps members. It should be equal to any other part of the CoCo! Anyway, your story has been added to the World Thread! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4034076#post4034076) (Year 22). Good work! *Bows Humbly* ;) Many thanks to you. I am just glad to be doing my share of entertaining the masses.
Caterane 11-22-04, 04:33 PM	We have to thank you. What about my idea about giving storywriters an extra credit? A story enrichens the CoCo significantly and outweighs possible credit inflation. There haven't been any stories in a long time so it is clear that something needs to be done!
Ashenai 11-22-04, 05:00 PM	We have to thank you. What about my idea about giving storywriters an extra credit? A story enrichens the CoCo significantly and outweighs possible credit inflation. There haven't been any stories in a long time so it is clear that something needs to be done! I think that's a great idea.
Snommelp 11-22-04, 05:09 PM	So do I. It will encourage people to read the entire fight instead of just scrolling down to the results (guilty :blush: ).
Zerone 11-22-04, 05:48 PM	Hey, since there are 14 people on the site right now, perhaps we could all look at the mounted combat rules question??? Especially the Elders, as you are such because of you infinate wisdom of the D&D rules... :schemes: *•. Z
Pittbull 11-22-04, 05:52 PM	We have to thank you. What about my idea about giving storywriters an extra credit? A story enrichens the CoCo significantly and outweighs possible credit inflation. There haven't been any stories in a long time so it is clear that something needs to be done! Rewarding storywriting, great idea. I allready suggested this months ago for the greatest story, my characters have been glad to being a part of it. For the new ones just read this one: The Deepstonesquad 1-7 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3927784) 8-10 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3927809) ! Getting such a level in storytelling isn't anything, anybody of us is able to achieve, but it should be an example, how perfection is!
Pittbull 11-22-04, 06:03 PM	Hey, since there are 14 people on the site right now, perhaps we could all look at the mounted combat rules question??? Especially the Elders, as you are such because of you infinate wisdom of the D&D rules... :schemes: *•. Z I don't like this ruling either and would be happy about a reruling, but I think the way we use it in the CoCo, is core. If give us an evidence that it isn't, I will :bow: to you!
turalisj 11-22-04, 06:38 PM	i'll be ready for combat this friday. you will fall before the might of the soublade!
Jindl 11-22-04, 06:47 PM	i'll be ready for combat this friday. you will fall before the might of the soublade! Please check the Character Violations thead. I think your new character had some errors posted by Myrridin. -Jindl
Sindorin 11-22-04, 06:52 PM	Wow, rewarding storywriters?! Count me in! I wanna pitlord again!!! :)
Ashenai 11-22-04, 10:25 PM	Hey, since there are 14 people on the site right now, perhaps we could all look at the mounted combat rules question??? Especially the Elders, as you are such because of you infinate wisdom of the D&D rules... :schemes: The rule is unrealistic, as you pointed out. It's really one of the smallest problems in the D&D system, though. There are much weirder issues with most of the rules. If I were running a pen-and-paper D&D game, and this came up, I'd probably make up a house-rule on the spot. This is the Core Coliseum, though, and I feel we should stick with the Core rules as much as possible. And on this issue, the Core Rules are 100% clear.
Pittbull 11-23-04, 02:45 AM	@Pitlords: Yes, I'll have an new charcter! Since I start pilording, wanted to begin with negative credits to be able to start with an ECL3 build. His name is Bartleby and can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4891283&postcount=267) . Doing this build brought one question into my mind: is it allowed to get spellcasting-service beyond CL 20, in this build I gave the divine caster a +5 item-enhancement, but no epic-level.
Snommelp 11-23-04, 02:58 AM	Cedric Fischer has just lost his 3rd consecutive match. Watch out, Moherajikuyx! My character's gunning for your character's title! Rita Maya shall be unseated as the Top Loser!
Einzelgaenger 11-23-04, 04:18 AM	actually 2, concerning BAB and saving throws BAB: instead of just adding up the numbers, add up fractions (1, 3/4, 1/2 depending on class). Without this modification, it is quite possible to have a Multiclassing character with less points of AB than they really deserve. saving throws: same thing - use fractions. i think it's reasonable if a character takes 2 levels in fighter, then one in paladin, for them to have a reflex and will saving throw of 1 each, instead of 0 as base rules state. depending on if and how you impliment this, it may also involve negating the 2 bonus points for a primary throw for extra classes, otherwise you can get horrendous plusses in only a couple levels. this may be its own consequence later on, but it still doesn't seem quite right. thank you for your time.
Pittbull 11-23-04, 05:10 AM	If you polymorph, you get the subtype of the new race too. So, you get this traits too, for example the firegaint gets subtype fire and so fire-immunity. Do I get all the Angel-traits, for my newest build Bartleby (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4891283&postcount=267) . Futhermore you get the special-attacks like poison, does he get the stun-attack too? Thanks for helping! :) Edit: Bartleby has been deleted, due to a major creation-mistake!
Ashenai 11-23-04, 06:34 AM	actually 2, concerning BAB and saving throws BAB: instead of just adding up the numbers, add up fractions (1, 3/4, 1/2 depending on class). Without this modification, it is quite possible to have a Multiclassing character with less points of AB than they really deserve. saving throws: same thing - use fractions. i think it's reasonable if a character takes 2 levels in fighter, then one in paladin, for them to have a reflex and will saving throw of 1 each, instead of 0 as base rules state. depending on if and how you impliment this, it may also involve negating the 2 bonus points for a primary throw for extra classes, otherwise you can get horrendous plusses in only a couple levels. this may be its own consequence later on, but it still doesn't seem quite right. thank you for your time. Thanks for your suggestions! They do make a lot of sense, and I kind of wish WotC would have done things that way; it would have made the rules a lot more reasonable. Unfortunately, we're the Core Coliseum; that "Core" means that whenever possible, we do things "by the book", introducing house-rules only if the rules aren't clear on something. This is handy for a number of reasons: for example, while new players still have to read a pretty large FAQ on how the CoCo works, at least they can be sure that D&D rules work the way they're used to. :)
Pittbull 11-23-04, 09:26 AM	Yup! Another question: Activating the outburst-power of Maenads, is it a free- or a standart-action? SRD says: Outburst (Ex): Once per day, for up to 4 rounds, a maenad can subjugate her mentality to gain a boost of raw physical power. When she does so, she takes a -2 penalty to Intelligence and Wisdom but gains a +2 bonus to Strength.
T'Var 11-23-04, 09:40 AM	its an (Ex) extraordinary ability, those are standerd actions unless otherwise stated in text of the power
Magagumo 11-23-04, 10:35 AM	Actually, it's a free action, like Barbarian's Rage
Pittbull 11-23-04, 11:18 AM	Much better! ;)
T'Var 11-23-04, 11:23 AM	Actually, it's a free action, like Barbarian's Rage No......extraordinary abilitys are standerd actions unless stated so in there discription look for your self (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/actionsInCombat.html)
Pittbull 11-23-04, 11:28 AM	Yeah, I thought the same, perhaps there's a difference in the ExPH. It'll be a very weak power, if you need a standard-action.
T'Var 11-23-04, 11:51 AM	sorry:( but its not classified as a quick or swift action or ability, its a EX extraordinary ability, and there standerds....but hey, be that and a barbarian. takes an action, but youd get +6str
Ashenai 11-23-04, 12:42 PM	Yep, it's a standard action. And yes, it is rather a weak power, but you have to consider that it's an LA +0 race; you can't expect anything very strong. Maenads already get +2 PPs, which is practically a feat in itself (Wild Talent), as well as the Energy Ray and Outburst abilities. It's a pretty balanced race, all told.
Zerone 11-23-04, 03:46 PM	If you declare that you are shooting while your mount is moving, you can take the full attack action with a ranged weapon, with the appropriate negatives for how fast the horse is moving. If at the start of your turn you can't see opponents, you can't declare a full attack action. So you would have to move and then take an attack action. I hope that clears things up. Have fun and good gaming! Trevor Customer Service Department Wizards of the Coast 1-800-324-6496 That being said, Pard should only receive 1 ranged attack... That is how the rules are, not a new ruling, so the fight should be changed. ;) As for the fight I had to Pitlord, I am sorry, but I had an emergency at work and had to leave, and luckily Caterane was online and I forwarded him the tactics. I see that the fight is already finished! Thank you very much Caterane, awesome! Jindl, I have nothing against you, from this or anything in the past :). You did what I would have done in your situation, quoted the book and used the rules accordingly. This rule just made sense to me, and I had to get confirmation that it existed... no big deal. Plus, you have been very helpful many times when answering a rules question or other such things. Pitbull... I now ask that you :bow: down before my infinate wisdom! :smirk: And as brought to my attention, i will no longer be submitting the same posts to different threads! i do have a problem with that... :D *•. Z
Ashenai 11-23-04, 04:00 PM	Okay, problem number 1: From the D&D Boards General FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44420&highlight=general): Q: If I have a question that I want a quasi-official answer to, who should I email? A: custserv@wizards.com is the WOTC customer service department. Their answers are sometimes right, sometimes wrong, and sometimes inconsistent, so I would cross reference their answers with other sources when possible. WotC CustServ is notoriously bad at interpreting rules. What they say unfortunately should not necessarily be considered official or Core. Problem number 2: even if we were to accept what CustServ said, it's not fair to have a rules change work retroactively, whether it's a "clarification", "errata", or anything else. When writing tactics for Pard, MysticMonk had no way of knowing that this rule would change; both CoCo precedent and the letter of the rules in the books were on his side. Therefore, even if we are to accept this rule change, it should only come into effect starting NOW. Problem number 3: It's Tuesday evening. A rerun at this point would seriously jeoperdize your chances of being able to ready your characters for the next pairings. I do understand your concern, and that was a hell of a way to lose a battle. Not having your tactics count for anything really does suck. But I'm going to have to say the fight should stand.
Zerone 11-23-04, 04:11 PM	Ashenai... What do you need for a ranged attack? A target and Range. What do you need for a full attack action? A full round. If there is no Line of Sight, then there is no target = no ranged attack. If you do not start your init with the full attack action, then you cannot take one. It is simple. What are you seeing that I am not? please explain.
Zerone 11-23-04, 04:19 PM	Further more, it is not a rules change. It is how the rules are. I quote you the PHB... Standard Actions: Ranged Attacks, p 139 Must be within maximum distance and line of sight. Full-Round Actions, p143 A full-round action requires an entire round to complete. Thus, it can't be coupled with a standard or move action, though you may move 5'. Pard's Pegasus moved a move action to get line of sight, and Pard hasn't started his action yet. Pard and his pegasus have the same init. So if the mount takes a double move, that's a full round action. If Pard doesn't start his full round action at the same time, how can he take one? Example: A mage wants to cast a spell with a casting time of 1 round. He looks down to see that he left his spell component pouch on the desk accross the room and asks his familar to go get it while he begins casting the spell. Can the mage cast the spell in that round or must he wait till he gets his spell component pouch? He must wait, because he doesn't have a necessary part of the action - casting a spell, just like Pard doesn't have a necessary part of a ranged attack, line of sight, when he would begin his action.
T'Var 11-23-04, 04:37 PM	ahh, WoTC Customer Service Department 50% accurate, 100% unofficial sorry Zerone, but I stopped listining to them when they said during 3.0 that a multi haste spells stacked, and that if you had hastex2 cast on yourself, you could cast 3 spells a round
Zerone 11-23-04, 05:42 PM	T'Var... it doesn't matter what they say, it's in the book: Standard Actions: Ranged Attacks, p 139 Must be within maximum distance and line of sight. Full-Round Actions, p143 A full-round action requires an entire round to complete, it can't be coupled with a standard or move action, though you may move 5'. So why can't a melee fighter do the same then, double move a mount and receive a full attack action? Because they are lacking 1 of the core elements in executing a full round action at the start of the action, or the start of their init, Just like Pard, who lacks line of sight. It's in the rules, it's in the book, what more do you want? When writing tactics for Pard, MysticMonk had no way of knowing that this rule would change; both CoCo precedent and the letter of the rules in the books were on his side. Therefore, even if we are to accept this rule change, it should only come into effect starting NOW. When writing tactics for Jin I had no idea that this rule would not be followed. Again, it is in the book. So my tactics, if I knew that you were not going to follow the rules as thery are in the book, I would have started with my Tower Shield equipped, if you look at Jin's character sheet, it's on there. So as is the case you stated for Pard, it is not fair to me. Comments? *•. Z
Ashenai 11-24-04, 01:24 AM	Example: A mage wants to cast a spell with a casting time of 1 round. He looks down to see that he left his spell component pouch on the desk accross the room and asks his familar to go get it while he begins casting the spell. Can the mage cast the spell in that round or must he wait till he gets his spell component pouch? He must wait, because he doesn't have a necessary part of the action - casting a spell, just like Pard doesn't have a necessary part of a ranged attack, line of sight, when he would begin his action. Instead of addressing all of your points, I'll adress this one, because I feel it shows the difference in our opinions. In the above case, if we assume that the familiar can give the component pouch to the mage without the mage having to use a move action to take it (probably false, but let's assume), then the mage can indeed cast a full-round spell this round. Mage tells familiar to get the pouch. (free action) Familiar goes, gets it, comes back to the mage (no action on the part of the mage) Mage casts his spell (full round action). What the PHB says about not comibining full-round actions with move actions and standard actions means just that, nothing more. You can't do a full-round action and a move action, because your full-round action "takes up" both your move and your standard action for a round. Other than that, though, there's no restriction. The reason a melee fighter can't do a full attack on horseback is simple: beause the rules for mounted combat say so. There really is no other reason. As for segments... rounds in D&D aren't split up into segments. It'd be more logical (though also more complicated) if they were, but they aren't. You can never say that you're doing something "in the middle of a round", or "at the end of a round"; all you can say is that "I still have both my move and my standard actions left", or "I only have a move action left". As long as you haven't used either your move or your standard action in a round, you're allowed to do a full-round action. Them's the rules. There are specific exceptions (like melee attacks while mounted), but where the rules don't mention exceptions, there aren't any.
Caterane 11-24-04, 07:53 AM	ahh, WoTC Customer Service Department 50% accurate, 100% unofficial sorry Zerone, but I stopped listining to them when they said during 3.0 that a multi haste spells stacked, and that if you had hastex2 cast on yourself, you could cast 3 spells a round LOL but hey, here's a funny one too: two of our members once wrote to the Customer Service adressing the same issue and got two different and contradictive answers. @Zoro: Your examples are logical but not in the rules. You cannot change the rules just because it is not logical. Example: position 30 people in 60ft increments from each other. The first one has a stick and moves to the second one who now makes his action and walks to the next one and so on. According to the rules the stick has now wandered 1800ft in 6 seconds without the people even running. Logical? No. Within the rules? Yes. That said, your fight has been run correctly and applying common sense - even though that might be a thing to consider in a real campain - isn't going to help you in the CoCo, and least of all in your fight. The result stands and will not be changed. Accept the loss, hard as it may be; Jin is a good gladiator and you just had bad luck that's all. @Pittbull: LOL Hagrid! http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/mhihi.gif
Jindl 11-24-04, 01:55 PM	RE: Jin Szen vs Pard - Here is my final decision on this fight, copied from the Fights of the Week Thread: That being said, Pard should only receive 1 ranged attack... That is how the rules are, not a new ruling, so the fight should be changed. @Zerone - Okay, that's fine. Now with this understanding of the rules, here is my interpretation of Pard's tactics and the resulting change to the fight. Tactics: Pard wanted the Pegasus to move until he could see you, then full attack. Fight: Pard uses the delay action while his Pegasus (keep in mind that this is a creature of average intelligence that understands Common) single moves on initiative 15 to place Pard in LOS of Jin Szen. On initiative 14, Pard comes off delay and takes a full attack. Jin Szen would have acted on initiative 13. The outcome is the same. Analysis: The simple loophole of using a delay/readied action to allow a full attack / standard attack after an intelligent mount's movement has been used many times before. Hopefully WoTC will close this loophole eventually, but as of now it is wide open. -Jindl I would like to add a few more thoughts: 1. I agree with Customer Service's interpretation of this rule. A character must have line of sight on their target when beginning the full attack action with a ranged weapon. 2. I agree with Ashenai, both in this quote: "Problem number 3: It's Tuesday evening. A rerun at this point would seriously jeoperdize your chances of being able to ready your characters for the next pairings." and in his interpretation of how delay actions can be used to add an ally's movement actions to your own. 3. I think it would be a good idea for the Elder's to vote a CoCo interpretation on the use of delay/readied actions during a mounts movement. I would suggest that we rule: #1 - Directing a mount of Int <3 requires a move action that can be combined with a full attack using a ranged weapon or any other move action, except for movement (This would prevent the use of the delay action while your mount is moving, but only for mounts that aren't smart enough to make their own decisions); AND #2 - It is not possible to ready an action to fire after the midpoint of your mountss double move/run. This should allow intelligent mounts, like Pard's Pegasus, to move their masters into range on their own, but prevent horses and other simpler mounts from doing the same. It also should help to close the delay/readied action loophole I reference above. Well, those are my final thoughts on the matter. Feel free to comment on them, but please accept this as a final answer on the outcome of the fight. -Jindl
Pitlords 11-24-04, 06:39 PM	Pairings done! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=2700233#post2700233) Pitlords may begin to run fights without tactics on saturday Fights should be up till monday Late penalties on tuesday Credit changes: +2: Caterane +1: Snarkhunter, Jindl, Huan, Pittbull, T'Var, Snommelp, Ayatoshi, Piuro -1: Beldin I am also glad to inform you that Pittbull has finally joined the ranks of the Pitlords! @Scaryfroman: "Ready for 10/24" Well, I think there's something you should know... :D
Battousai2005 11-25-04, 12:15 AM	Cat, I'd like to thank you for taking over that last fight for me. The first time was rushed, the second time (as you may have noticed) was not, but I got T'var's last tidbit literally less than a minute before I had to leave. Also, thank you to the pitlords account for not docking me a cred, although for my stupidity both times, I likely deserved it. Question: I may or may not have asked in the past, but if a creature is said to be granted spells like a wizard, such as the manner in which Planetars are granted cleric spells, do they gain specialization? The reason I ask is that cleric creatures are granted domains, so are wizard creatures entitled to school specialization?
LLMadCow 11-25-04, 04:05 AM	Happy Thanksgiving ...And Goodbye. The CoCo has changed over the last six months and is no longer the source of joy and fun that it used to be. Some of you I will stay in touch with and to the rest - have fun ... (except for :censored: , who should just :censored: :censored: :censored: !) I may one day return if the CoCo gets some long over due changes implemented. Until then... :turkey:
Pittbull 11-25-04, 05:46 AM	Bye, LL, I'll never forget Angoshs first fight! :D :thumbsup:
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 11-25-04, 07:18 AM	Bye LL, hopefully you find the CoCo later a place of joy :). Now I ahve question, wich regards about my cleric. Now he had managed to hoard up 8,206 gp+ what comes after I sell useless junks what he haves (mentionably the scroll heat metal). So, suggestions anybody? What things I should buy to boost my cleric, wich is btw, planning to become pyrokinesis after 5lvl............
Battousai2005 11-25-04, 01:00 PM	Bye, LL. Dang. I always thought you were a good voice of reason in this madhouse. *Sigh* You will be missed.
Caterane 11-25-04, 04:11 PM	There is a new picture up! Kemal, brand-new(bie), shows all of our longer-standing members what they should do if they can't find themselves in the World Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=3982959#post3982959)! You know my email. Brian, I wish you all the best on your way and I hope you will return sooner or later (preferably sooner). If you want to make a last present to the CoCo and send a picture of you, we would not only have your many and great posts in our minds but also your face. The Gallery will definately never be complete without LLMadCow who left so many positive imprints on this board over such a long time! Farewell Brian and may your way guide you back to Gladius! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: (Standing ovations)
Battousai2005 11-26-04, 12:20 AM	Question: I may or may not have asked in the past, but if a creature is said to be granted spells like a wizard, such as the manner in which Planetars are granted cleric spells, do they gain specialization? The reason I ask is that cleric creatures are granted domains, so are wizard creatures entitled to school specialization? Any ideas?
Ashenai 11-26-04, 12:57 AM	Question: I may or may not have asked in the past, but if a creature is said to be granted spells like a wizard, such as the manner in which Planetars are granted cleric spells, do they gain specialization? The reason I ask is that cleric creatures are granted domains, so are wizard creatures entitled to school specialization? No rules on this at all, as far as I know. I'd go with "sure, why not", because, well, why not? :)
T'Var 11-26-04, 01:46 AM	No rules on this at all, as far as I know. I'd go with "sure, why not", because, well, why not? :) I actually would say no, if they are granted the spells, they become spell like abilitys. and there abilitys are described in there discription. If they could be specilized, they would have written it in
Battousai2005 11-26-04, 01:55 AM	I actually would say no, if they are granted the spells, they become spell like abilitys. and there abilitys are described in there discription. If they could be specilized, they would have written it in I'd like to counter this remark. Not that I am saying that I believe yet that they should get specialization, but just look for a second. From the SRD, Monsters Intro-A, Angel, Planetar Spell-Like Abilities: At will—continual flame, dispel magic, holy smite (DC 20), invisibility (self only), lesser restoration (DC 18), remove curse (DC 19), remove disease (DC 19), remove fear (DC 17), speak with dead (DC 19); 3/day—blade barrier (DC 22), flame strike (DC 21), polymorph (self only), power word stun, raise dead, waves of fatigue; 1/day—earthquake (DC 24), greater restoration (DC 23), mass charm monster (DC 24), waves of exhaustion. Caster level 17th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. The following abilities are always active on the planetar’s person, as the spells (caster level 17th): detect evil, detect snares and pits, discern lies (DC 20), see invisibility, and true seeing. They can be dispelled, but the planetar can reactivate them as a free action. Spells: Planetars can cast divine spells as 17th-level clerics. A planetar has access to two of the following domains: Air, Destruction, Good, Law, or War (plus any others from its deity Now, why would spells be listed seperate from spell like abilities? Simple. The spells given are not spell like abilities, but treated as caster levels in their own rights. Also, note that they gain access to domains, as I mentioned earlier. Which is why I wonder if wizard casters gain the same advantage in specializations.
MysticMonk2005 11-26-04, 02:27 AM	Bye, LL, I'll never forget Angoshs first fight! :D :thumbsup: and nor shall I forget his first fight. Arty WILL be avenged. And indeed It is sad to see an old member leave. I shall miss seeing your KingSteve quote.
Ashenai 11-26-04, 02:28 AM	That is correct. They are spells, and not spell-like abilities; the creature in question would have to use components as normal, and in fact, would need a spellbook to prepare spells, just like a Wizard. Of course, this doesn't mean specialization is definitely an option, but like I said, I don't see why not. The description says they can cast spells like level X wizards. Well, specialists are wizards.
Jindl 11-26-04, 02:39 PM	I would think that they cannot specialize, just like they do not get the domain powers for the clerical domains they have access to. Just out of curiosity, what creature(s) can cast like wizards anyway? Most seem to either be clerics or sorcerors.
Snommelp 11-26-04, 02:47 PM	That is correct. They are spells, and not spell-like abilities; the creature in question would have to use components as normal, and in fact, would need a spellbook to prepare spells, just like a Wizard. Of course, this doesn't mean specialization is definitely an option, but like I said, I don't see why not. The description says they can cast spells like level X wizards. Well, specialists are wizards. All (magical) specialists are wizards. Not all wizards are specialists. Because of this, I would argue that, unless the creature's entry says otherwise, the creature does not cast as a specialist. On a similar vein, if a creature casts spells as a cleric or sorcerer or other class, and that creature takes levels in that class, how does the spell progression work?
Caterane 11-26-04, 04:05 PM	bump
Dalton Onestone 11-26-04, 08:38 PM	Hi guys. I'm confused. There were major rule changes (cost of magic items, fights per day). Then they were reversed/suspended. What's the current status? If discussion is still open, I don't like the idea of 3 fights/day, since it leads to confusion about which fight to optimize for. What's more, a party in a real game doesn't necessarily plan for three fights per day -- if faced by enemy after enemy, they'll eventually just resort to running away. I DEFINITELY don't think a wizard's spells should have to last through three fights unless it's also the case that nobody gets healed, resurrected, etc. post-fight except via whatever capacity for doing so they brought with them. Thanks! And I hope Thanksgiving was great for the Americans here!
Ashenai 11-26-04, 08:48 PM	Hi guys. I'm confused. There were major rule changes (cost of magic items, fights per day). Then they were reversed/suspended. What's the current status? It's still open for discussion. In theory, it should have been decided many times over by now, but many of us don't feel comfortable about a decision being made with so few Elders participating. If discussion is still open, I don't like the idea of 3 fights/day, since it leads to confusion about which fight to optimize for. Why is this a problem? What's more, a party in a real game doesn't necessarily plan for three fights per day -- if faced by enemy after enemy, they'll eventually just resort to running away. Eventually, yes. Not after every fight, though... in fact, it's a rare campaign that has the party only fighting one fight a day. But that's not even the point, really. While I am somewhat interested in simulating a "real capmaign", others, like Cat, aren't. The reason he's behind the idea (though with only 2 fights per day), for instance, is that it would be more balanced. I DEFINITELY don't think a wizard's spells should have to last through three fights unless it's also the case that nobody gets healed, resurrected, etc. post-fight except via whatever capacity for doing so they brought with them. Um... no one gets resurrected? So what happens, they enter the next fight dead? How would that work, exactly?
Dalton Onestone 11-26-04, 09:01 PM	Um... no one gets resurrected? So what happens, they enter the next fight dead? How would that work, exactly? They'd automatically lose. Yeah, I think it's silly too. But that illustrates a flaw in the whole multiple-fights-per-day idea. Even if you don't agree with that, at least don't heal them between fights. Also, don't let them use potions of Cure Light Wounds after or before fights. No prebuffs should mean NO prebuffs.
Ashenai 11-26-04, 09:52 PM	Even if you don't agree with that, at least don't heal them between fights. Also, don't let them use potions of Cure Light Wounds after or before fights. No prebuffs should mean NO prebuffs. Why? I mean, why do you think no prebuffs is a good idea?
Dalton Onestone 11-26-04, 11:54 PM	Why? I mean, why do you think no prebuffs is a good idea? I don't, necessarily. But I think that the rules should simulate one or the other of the following scenarios: 1. Planned all-out gladitorial combat, analogous to boxing matches on Earth. In this option, competitors should be allowed to prepare however they see fit, given the resources they have, subject only to the constraint that nothing is allowed that makes too much extra work for the Pitlords. And there's only one fight per day. 2. Simulation of a surprise combat encounter in a game. In this case, if you're up against something that seems like it could kill you, you are prepared to use all your resources to survive. So this isn't actually any different from the first scenario, except that there's no prebuffing except maybe what would have an "all day" duration. Again, this is a one-fight-per-day scenario. You can start as far apart as the rulemakers want, allowing some immediate buffing. It seems to me that this is the traditional Coco model. 3 A test of general combat fitness, simulating a character who goes through combat on a day-in, day-out basis. In this case, there can be a set small number of fights per day. But no recovery should be allowed between fights, except what the party (which in this setting is a party of 1 or 2) can do on its own, or what could be achieved with a few hours of down time. Anything else that I can think of is arbitrary. Now, maybe you guys have the experience to say that "arcane spellcasters (almost) always win, so we need to arbitrarily gimmick the rules to hurt arcane spellcasters". If so, that's too bad. What's more, I thought I saw that some of the higher-ranking characters around here weren't arcane spellacasters. So I'm assuming that's not the case. And if it's the case that: A. Arcane spellcasters currently aren't overpowered. B. The rules are changing to considerably disadvantage arcane spellcasters then I don't want to play, because I want to make an arcane spellcaster character, but I'd prefer not to go in knowing I'm always going to lose.
KerlanRayne 11-27-04, 12:49 AM	Now, maybe you guys have the experience to say that "arcane spellcasters (almost) always win, so we need to arbitrarily gimmick the rules to hurt arcane spellcasters". If so, that's too bad. What's more, I thought I saw that some of the higher-ranking characters around here weren't arcane spellacasters. So I'm assuming that's not the case.It's not Arcane spellcasters, it's just Spellcasters in general. Of the top 10 highest level characters, 8 are spellcasters. Angosh is not a spellcaster at lvl 19 but he's only won 12 times, while losing 18 times. That's 50% more. KerlanRayne
Dalton Onestone 11-27-04, 07:46 AM	OK. You guys have obviously thought about these issues MUCH more than I have, so I'll let them drop. Now a simple question -- is it allowed to make a cleric with any two of the standard domains, or need one pick one of the deities in the PHB?
Caterane 11-27-04, 07:50 AM	Yes that's allowed. You can also pick from the Domains in the Divine SRD (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/DivineDomainsandSpells.rtf)
Dalton Onestone 11-27-04, 08:50 AM	Thanks! Another simple question: Do you assign a cost to wizards having more spells in their spellbooks than the minimum learned per level?
Dalton Onestone 11-27-04, 08:53 AM	Question deleted
Beldin 11-27-04, 09:16 AM	You have to buy the scroll (copying from another wizards spellbook is not allowed) and scribe it into your spellbook (100gp per spell-level). for instance: see invisible.............150 gp for scroll + 2*100 gp to add to spellbook
Battousai2005 11-27-04, 02:30 PM	I would think that they cannot specialize, just like they do not get the domain powers for the clerical domains they have access to. Just out of curiosity, what creature(s) can cast like wizards anyway? Most seem to either be clerics or sorcerors. Ah, yes. Well, actually, there is only 1 creature who can do this. First one to find it gets a cookie!
Caterane 11-27-04, 03:23 PM	Drider! Drider! The MM says that if such a creature has at least one level of cleric it gains the domain powers so assuming that the character will advance in his chosen spellcasting class anyway the "no domain powers/no familiar" only applies for the first level when it doesn't have any class levels.
turalisj 11-27-04, 03:34 PM	HAVE A COOKIE!!! :cookie: almost done with my xeph.
T'Var 11-27-04, 04:00 PM	are there any active 6th lvls out there? wondering who i should be scouting or if i just get a by week this time around
Caterane 11-27-04, 04:04 PM	T'Var, make a second character. This comes in handy if your iconic PC has to sit out a week. Anyway, I might activate Archangel Ixenthor. Are you ready to be purged?
T'Var 11-27-04, 04:57 PM	T'Var, make a second character. This comes in handy if your iconic PC has to sit out a week. Anyway, I might activate Archangel Ixenthor. Are you ready to be purged? I just stood toe to toe with a meat wall dwarf i think im ready for a nice relaxing day off haha
turalisj 11-27-04, 05:36 PM	^_^ finally finished!!! :D
Dalton Onestone 11-27-04, 06:00 PM	You have to buy the scroll (copying from another wizards spellbook is not allowed) and scribe it into your spellbook (100gp per spell-level). for instance: see invisible.............150 gp for scroll + 2*100 gp to add to spellbook Youch. Is that scroll about to be covered by the 5x multiplier too???? Also, do you automatically succeed at the Spellcraft check to copy? Or is it only if you Take 10?
Ashenai 11-27-04, 06:27 PM	Youch. Is that scroll about to be covered by the 5x multiplier too???? Nope. One-shot items with permanent effects (such as scrolls bought to scribe into your spellbook, or Tomes to increase your ability scores permanently) would be exempt from the 5x cost rule. Also, do you automatically succeed at the Spellcraft check to copy? Or is it only if you Take 10? You have to succeed when Taking 10.
Dalton Onestone 11-27-04, 08:44 PM	Yet another question -- does the dwarven bonus against giants extend to half-giants? I imagine not ...
Snommelp 11-27-04, 08:49 PM	Yet another question -- does the dwarven bonus against giants extend to half-giants? I imagine not ... Well, that depends. Do half-giants have the creature type "giant"? If so, then yes. If not, then no. Speaking of, are half-giants in the 3.5 DMG? I thought they would be in the MM, but I can't find them. EDIT: Found them in the SRD. They're listed as giants, so I'd say the bonus still holds.
Dalton Onestone 11-27-04, 09:01 PM	Well, that depends. Do half-giants have the creature type "giant"? If so, then yes. If not, then no. Speaking of, are half-giants in the 3.5 DMG? I thought they would be in the MM, but I can't find them. EDIT: Found them in the SRD. They're listed as giants, so I'd say the bonus still holds. That's VERY interesting with the flock of half-giants around here. Thank you! Two more questions (and thank you for your patience). OK, groups of questions. 1. Can you get any non-magical item you can craft Taking 10 at 1/3 listed cost? So 5 ranks of Craft:Weaponsmithing, 1 masterwork artisans tools at 55 gp (from memory) and an INT bonus of 3+ should allow a nice discount on Masterwork anything and composite bows up to a modifier of +3 or so (I think the DC on a composite bow is 15 + modifier x2, but without looking it up it might be x3 instead), based on +11 checks. 2. Can I use spell sharing on my hawk familiar to give him Detect Magic and rely on him to determine whether my opponent has gone invisible (and roughly where in the arena my opponent is)? For that matter, can I rely on my hawk familiar to find my visible opponent who's hiding? What if anything can a raven familiar (who can talk) tell me a hawk familiar can't?
Battousai2005 11-27-04, 11:06 PM	Drider! Drider! The MM says that if such a creature has at least one level of cleric it gains the domain powers so assuming that the character will advance in his chosen spellcasting class anyway the "no domain powers/no familiar" only applies for the first level when it doesn't have any class levels. Yep. Drider. (Hopefully) my next character concept. Rather odd one, actually. He has a strange story behind him. Now I think my question is obsolete as I believe I am making him a sorcerer. *sigh* Oh, well.
Ashenai 11-28-04, 05:05 AM	That's VERY interesting with the flock of half-giants around here. Thank you! Two more questions (and thank you for your patience). OK, groups of questions. 1. Can you get any non-magical item you can craft Taking 10 at 1/3 listed cost? So 5 ranks of Craft:Weaponsmithing, 1 masterwork artisans tools at 55 gp (from memory) and an INT bonus of 3+ should allow a nice discount on Masterwork anything and composite bows up to a modifier of +3 or so (I think the DC on a composite bow is 15 + modifier x2, but without looking it up it might be x3 instead), based on +11 checks. You can craft anything you're allowed to craft with Taking 10. The cost is only 1/2, not 1/3, though. (This is because there is no time limit on crafting in the Arena, and since you can sell anything at half price, crafting for 1/3 would allow you to make an unlimited amount of money betwen fights). 2. Can I use spell sharing on my hawk familiar to give him Detect Magic and rely on him to determine whether my opponent has gone invisible (and roughly where in the arena my opponent is)? For that matter, can I rely on my hawk familiar to find my visible opponent who's hiding? What if anything can a raven familiar (who can talk) tell me a hawk familiar can't? If your familiar does not yet have Speak with Master (and isn't a raven), then you only have an empathic link with it. This means that it can only give you vague messages... similar to single-word messages, I'd say. So it could tell you if it spotted an opponent (feeling of discovery/satisfaction), and it could point its head in the general direction of the opponent, but it can't tell you the exact square. Since your familiar can send you general emotions, you can discuss communication methods with it before the fight (include these in your tactics). For instance, you could tell it that sending a certain emotion would mean that your opponent went invisible. I'd say this would be quite possible.
T'Var 11-28-04, 10:15 AM	speaking of half giants, do they gain bonus feats at charector level 3 or ECL 3
Huan 11-28-04, 10:17 AM	You use HD to determine feats, so it would be at character lvl 3.
Snommelp 11-28-04, 04:42 PM	I have a question that has cropped up in the fight I am running. Can you charge into a grapple? The charge description says that after your charge you make a melee attack, but could you instead grapple your opponent after a charge?
Huan 11-28-04, 04:44 PM	Yes, you can also trip, disarm, or sunder.
Caterane 11-28-04, 04:48 PM	I have a question that has cropped up in the fight I am running. Can you charge into a grapple? The charge description says that after your charge you make a melee attack, but could you instead grapple your opponent after a charge? Yes because the attack action is the initial touch attack required to start a grapple. The grapple check itself is a free action.
Snommelp 11-28-04, 04:50 PM	Thanks. My fight should be posted shortly, now that that's been settled.
Sindorin 11-29-04, 12:03 AM	This isn't really a rules-related question, it is more of a role-playing/flavor question. Say two gladiators are paired against each other in the Coliseum. Both have mounts. Both of their mounts happen to be Chaotic Good Pegasi. Would the riders' mounts be alright with attacking... their siblings? Or would we be presented with the conundrum of two gladiators whose mounts refuse to fight? Not really an extremely important question, but I was puzzling a bit with the prospects of such an encounter...
Snommelp 11-29-04, 12:21 AM	@ Sindorin: it might be a Ride or Handle Animal check, but why add the extra hassle? @ everyone: I'm adding another character, my first Evil character ever. I'm hoping one day that she will become an assassin. Speaking of which, what's the ruling on that special requirement (killing someone for no other reason than to become an assassin)?
Pittbull 11-29-04, 07:04 AM	(killing someone for no other reason than to become an assassin)? That's no problem, just kill someone for no other reason than to become an assassin in the arena and you have the prerequesite for that.
Ashenai 11-29-04, 07:16 AM	We ignore PrC prerequisites that require characters to do something in the campaign. Otherwise, no one could ever be a Pyrokineticist... it's not like there are many buildings you can put to the torch in the Arena. Of course, role-playing the requirement on the Roleplay thread is very much encouraged. :)
turalisj 11-29-04, 07:31 AM	We ignore PrC prerequisites that require characters to do something in the campaign. Otherwise, no one could ever be a Pyrokineticist... it's not like there are many buildings you can put to the torch in the Arena. Of course, role-playing the requirement on the Roleplay thread is very much encouraged. :) ummmm, ooookay....bartender, more ale please!
Snommelp 11-29-04, 09:17 AM	hmm.... well, you know, I was planning on retiring Cedric eventually anyways... perhaps she could kill him in the RP thread.
Sindorin 11-29-04, 09:32 AM	@ Sindorin: it might be a Ride or Handle Animal check, but why add the extra hassle? Well, it's just that I noticed that the Pegasus is a rather easy and powerful mount to obtain, my proof being their growing number among gladiators here. I do suppose that a trained animal would obey his rider before everything else, but Pegasi are a bit more intelligent than a typical horse. I imagine it is nothing of concern, it was just me wasting time with nonsense.
Snommelp 11-29-04, 09:36 AM	@Sindorin: Please don't misunderstand me, I think it's a very good question. If more time was wasted on nonsense like this, the Fight of the Week threads would probably be much smaller.
Sindorin 11-29-04, 09:43 AM	hehe, I don't think I misunderstood you. I will continue to waste time with nonsense, for the good of the coliseum :)
Pittbull 11-29-04, 12:38 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong: If you have allready expended your psionic focus, you cannot be psionically focused on other feats. For example, you cannot have psionic fist and speed of thought activated in the same time. Thanks, for help!
Ashenai 11-29-04, 12:47 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong: If you have allready expended your psionic focus, you cannot be psionically focused on other feats. For example, you cannot have psionic fist and speed of thought activated in the same time. Thanks, for help! That is correct; activating Psionic Fist expends your focus, which means Speed of Thought won't work (until you regain focus, of course). Note, though, that there's nothing stopping you from using both in a round; for example, you could move up to an opponent with the increased speed granted by Speed of Thought, and then you could expend your focus to hit him with a Psionic Fist.
Pittbull 11-29-04, 12:51 PM	you could move up to an opponent with the increased speed granted by Speed of Thought, and then you could expend your focus to hit him with a Psionic Fist. Expending the focus, needs no concentration-check or any action? EDIT: Tatoos of swift-action or immediate-action powers require a standart-action to be activated?
Ashenai 11-29-04, 02:32 PM	Expending the focus, needs no concentration-check or any action? No, no action at all, not even a free one. It's always part of another action or skill check. So you can expend focus at any time, even when it's not your turn (for Taking 15 on Concentration checks, for example). EDIT: Tatoos of swift-action or immediate-action powers require a standart-action to be activated? Yep. A standard action that provokes AoO.
T'Var 11-29-04, 11:08 PM	MADNESS DOMAIN Granted Power: The character gains an Insanity score equal to half his or her class level. For spellcasting (determining bonus spells and DCs), the character uses his or her Wisdom score plus his or her Insanity score in place of Wisdom alone. For all other purposes, such as skills and saves, use Wisdom minus Insanity in place of Wisdom. Once per day, the character can see and act with the clarity of true madness. Use the character’s Insanity score as a positive rather than a negative modifier on a single roll involving Wisdom. Choose to use this power before the roll is made. Madness Domain Spells 1 Random action 2 Touch of madness 3 Rage 4 Confusion 5 Bolts of bedevillment 6 Phantasmal killer 7 Insanity 8 Maddening scream 9 Weird Random Actions (D) Id be happy if someone can find this spell somewhere! um no clue but in Compleate Divine where the madness domain made its first showing its first lvl spell is Confusion, Lesser Confusion Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting] Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 4, Trickery 4 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Targets: All creatures in a 15-ft. radius burst Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes This spell causes the targets to become confused, making them unable to independently determine what they will do. Roll on the following table at the beginning of each subject’s turn each round to see what the subject does in that round. d% Behavior 01–10 Attack caster with melee or ranged weapons (or close with caster if attack is not possible). 11–20 Act normally. 21–50 Do nothing but babble incoherently. 51–70 Flee away from caster at top possible speed. 71–100 Attack nearest creature (for this purpose, a familiar counts as part of the subject’s self). A confused character who can’t carry out the indicated action does nothing but babble incoherently. Attackers are not at any special advantage when attacking a confused character. Any confused character who is attacked automatically attacks its attackers on its next turn, as long as it is still confused when its turn comes. Note that a confused character will not make attacks of opportunity against any creature that it is not already devoted to attacking (either because of its most recent action or because it has just been attacked). Arcane Material Component: A set of three nut shells. Confusion, Lesser Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting] Level: Brd 1 Components: V, S, DF Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One living creature Duration: 1 round This spell causes a single creature to become confused for 1 round. See the confusion spell, above, to determine the exact effect on the subject.
Pittbull 11-30-04, 10:00 AM	Can I use armor-spikes without wearing an armor? Would match my image for Hagrid (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4907091&postcount=268) ? Do I need to have handle animal to give a trained animal, like war-horse or riding-dog, any commands? Is there take 10 possible, if there is a check?
Ashenai 11-30-04, 10:10 AM	Can I use armor-spikes without wearing an armor? Would match my image for Hagrid (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4907091&postcount=268) ? Sorry, no... armor spikes are not picky about the type of armor they go on, but it has to be armor. Do I need to have handle animal to give a trained animal, like war-horse or riding-dog, any commands? Yes. That is, in fact, what Handle Animal is for. :) Is there take 10 possible, if there is a check? In the Arena, no. You have to roll for it. If you fail, though, you can try again as much as you like (it's a move action). Once a command is given, it remains in effect until the next command is successfully given.
T'Var 11-30-04, 10:32 AM	Can I use armor-spikes without wearing an armor? Would match my image for Hagrid (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4907091&postcount=268) if you wanted them just for looks i dont see why not, but you couldnt make attacks with them, nor would you want to, your monk unarmed dmg would far out match that d6 dmg that armor spikes would do
Battousai2005 11-30-04, 07:29 PM	Kage is active and I would like to pitlord as many fights a humanly possible. Yah. Umm...thats all.
Snommelp 11-30-04, 11:37 PM	Tara Brightblade is ready and itching to kill somebody in this arena. Tremble in fear, all with low spot checks.
SnarkHunter 12-01-04, 12:32 AM	Question: If one is not proficient in an armor worn, does one take the ACP on something like a telekinetic attack?
T'Var 12-01-04, 12:54 AM	Question: If one is not proficient in an armor worn, does one take the ACP on something like a telekinetic attack? hmm, hard to say, though I think that since an attack roll is made, it would suffer ACP. even though you are thrusting with your mind your body is not use to the weight or feel of the armor, think about how distracted you were the last time there was a pebble in your shoe. now immagine trying to center your mind into forcing an object into someone else with that same nagging but all over your body
Sindorin 12-01-04, 12:57 AM	Tara Brightblade is ready and itching to kill somebody in this arena. Tremble in fear, all with low spot checks. Yikes, now there's something to bother the madness clerics with at higher levels... heh
Snommelp 12-01-04, 01:01 AM	Yikes, now there's something to bother the madness clerics with at higher levels... heh Yup, and she's also a member of the FGA... that's Future Gladiatior Assassins. Hopefully she's built well enough to give her opponents a run for their money.
Sindorin 12-01-04, 01:04 AM	When I joined here there were certain organization threads. They all seem to have died off a bit, but if Tara wants to bring one of them back it would be fun to get the roleplaying back up and running.
Dalton Onestone 12-01-04, 05:39 AM	I can't find an online resource for the price of guard dogs and the like. (I don't own the DMG.) Help?! Thanks!
Einzelgaenger 12-01-04, 06:35 AM	I can't find an online resource for the price of guard dogs and the like. (I don't own the DMG.) Help?! Thanks! everything you need from the PHB, DMG, MM, and EPH http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35
Arena Champion 12-01-04, 06:40 AM	I can't find an online resource for the price of guard dogs and the like. (I don't own the DMG.) Help?! Thanks! 3.5 SRD - Everything you might need for the arena! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) Enjoy. Edit: Fine, I was second... :P
Dalton Onestone 12-01-04, 06:42 AM	Arrggh. Right in the PHB for a few animals. I apologize for the stupidity ...
Ashenai 12-01-04, 08:00 AM	Question: If one is not proficient in an armor worn, does one take the ACP on something like a telekinetic attack? Well: "A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks." Telekinetic attacks require attack rolls, so ACP applies to them; the above rule makes no provision for exceptions. I agree with you that it doesn't make a great deal of sense, but until and unless it's errataed, it's the rules...
Caterane 12-01-04, 08:11 AM	When to write a PM to the Pitlord account: If your character is on the roster it is enough to write "Ready for" into the headline along with challenges if any, or other information like "Sitting out if my other character is paired". No need to write a PM to the Pitlord account. If your character is on the inactive list, the pitlord will check that before doing the pairings but write him a PM anyway just to make sure. If you have a new and ready character wait a day. If he still doesn't appear on the roster, write a PM to the Pitlord account. If you created a new character but didn't finish him for a week or two, the pitlord might not have seen that your character is active now so write a PM to the Pitlord account. If you want to change the number of fights you want to pitlord (see Pitlord list, below Pairings) write a PM to the Pitlord account and inform him about that. If you want to inform the Pitlord that there is a mistake with your credits, or on the Roster, or that an already updated fight must be reset because of an ongoing discussion in the Comments Thread, write a PM to the Pitlord account. Normally, the Pitlord Master sees these things on his own but hey, nobody is perfect. If you want to inform the Pitlord that you just love Caterane, write a PM to him and all the other 100k members of the Community. Anything else, like congratulations, thanks, or things that need not be changed, do not require a PM to the pitlord account. Post it here in the Tavern instead, or in the Comments thread if more appropriate. Ok, I hope this helps somewhat.
Ashenai 12-01-04, 08:34 AM	This has recently been added to the 3.5 FAQ: Who can use a wand or other item that is activated with a spell trigger? I would think that you would have to be able to cast the stored spell. That is, you must have levels in a class that can cast the spell, have enough levels in that class to cast the stored spell, and have an ability score sufficient to cast that spell. If you’re a fighter with an Intelligence score of 9, you can’t just pick up a level of wizard and start using a wand of fireball, can you? Wands and other spell trigger items are for dedicated spellcasters who use them to carry around a few extra spells in case they run out, right? These are not items that allow dabblers to mimic true spellcasting ability. Still, some of my friends insist that you can use any spell trigger item (wand or staff) if you have at least one level in a class that could possibly cast the spell. They point to the term “spell list” in the description of spell trigger items in the Dungeon Master’s Guide. Surely, that refers to the list of spell you can conceivably cast, not to a class’s entire spell list. After all, the Dungeon Master’s Guide does not use the term “class spell list” when talking about spell trigger items. Please preserve play balance in our local campaign by telling me that I’m right. Sorry, but your friends are correct. If you’re a member of a class that has spellcasting ability, you can use any spell trigger item that stores a spell that’s on your class’s spell list, even when you don’t have the class level or the ability score to cast the stored spell. This even applies when you don’t have enough class levels to cast any spells at all. For example, a paladin of 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level has not yet gained any spellcasting ability, but she still can use spell trigger items that store spells on the paladin class list. If you’re a specialist wizard, spells from your opposition schools aren’t part of your class spell list, and you can’t use spell trigger items that store those spells. It’s true that the spell trigger text on page 213 in the Dungeon Master’s Guide does not use the words “class spell list,” but it should because having a spell on your class spell list is what’s required to use spell trigger items. Membership in a class gives you a smattering of magical knowledge, and that is sufficient to use a spell trigger item, even when you could not hope to cast the spell on your own or even read it correctly from a scroll -- the character who made the spell trigger item has done all the hard work for you. Your example fighter/wizard could indeed lob fireballs out of a wand (provided the character is not a specialist wizard with evocation as an opposition school). Doing so isn’t much of a threat to the play balance in a campaign, nor will it make single-classed wizards or sorcerers in your world irrelevant. Fireball spells from dedicated spellcasters will, on the whole, deal more damage, penetrate spell resistance more readily, have higher save DCs, and have better range than fireballs from wands. The D&D game also includes other balancing factors, such as the experience penalty for multiclassing (although one can get around that by choosing the right race). Someone also has to make or pay for the wand, and that will prove an impediment to characters if the DM follows the Dungeon Master’s Guide guidelines for character wealth and awarding treasure. Your example character would be far better off packing wands that boost fighting abilities (shield and true strike are some the Sage’s favorites here). The short version: rangers and paladins can now use spell trigger items (wands) at levels 1-3, assuming the spell is on the Ranger or Paladin spell list, respectively. Zerone was right; we were all wrong. For the record, I don't like this rule at all, but that doesn't matter; it's official, so there you have it. Pitlords, please take note.
Snommelp 12-01-04, 09:25 AM	When to write a PM to the Pitlord account: If you have a new and ready character wait a day. If he still doesn't appear on the roster, write a PM to the Pitlord account. If you created a new character but didn't finish him for a week or two, the pitlord might not have seen that your character is active now so write a PM to the Pitlord account. If you want to inform the Pitlord that you just love Caterane, write a PM to him and all the other 100k members of the Community. Tara Brightblade has been ready for about two days now, and is not on the roster. Also, I just love Caterane. I suppose it may be time for me to write the Pitlord account a PM...
KerlanRayne 12-01-04, 02:45 PM	The short version: rangers and paladins can now use spell trigger items (wands) at levels 1-3, assuming the spell is on the Ranger or Paladin spell list, respectively. Zerone was right; we were all wrong. For the record, I don't like this rule at all, but that doesn't matter; it's official, so there you have it. Pitlords, please take note.I thought we had already established this. The book even says flat out that a 3rd level Paladin can use wands. What we were discussing was whether they can use scrolls. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.)KerlanRayne
Ashenai 12-01-04, 03:10 PM	I thought we had already established this. The book even says flat out that a 3rd level Paladin can use wands. What we were discussing was whether they can use scrolls. Mmm, you're right, I got confused. At any rate, I didn't know that it was so clear-cut that level 1-3 Paladins and Rangers could use Wands. Ah well. So we're still right on the Scroll issue until further notice, I guess. :D
Dalton Onestone 12-01-04, 03:28 PM	Something else I couldn't find in the SRD: Any special DCs for crafting in mithil and/or darkwood. Did I overlook anything? I also couldn't find the benefits, if any, to adamantine weapons. I gather that adamantine armor has DR 2 or 3.
Jindl 12-01-04, 03:40 PM	Something else I couldn't find in the SRD: Any special DCs for crafting in mithil and/or darkwood. Did I overlook anything? They are considered masterwork items. As such, the DC is 20 for the special material. This usually makes the DC 20 for the whole item, but some mighty composite bows have DC's higher than 20, in which case you would just have to meet the higher DC. I also couldn't find the benefits, if any, to adamantine weapons. I gather that adamantine armor has DR 2 or 3. Adamantine light armor = DR 1/- Adamantine medium armor = DR 2- Adamantine heavy armor = DR 3/- Adamantine weapon = masterwork, hardness 20, 30 hps per inch, ignores hardness of other items - up to hardness 20. The last quality makes adamantine weapons the best choice for sundering, and the best way to prevent sundering. -Jindl
Sindorin 12-01-04, 03:46 PM	With that in mind, is it possible to have an adamantine spell component pouch? :)
Jindl 12-01-04, 03:53 PM	With that in mind, is it possible to have an adamantine spell component pouch? :) Only items that have metal components can be made of adamantine, and the sundering resistance only applies if the item is primarily metal. Thus you could make a lance with an adamantine tip (for bypassing a golems DR, for example), but the lance wouldn't gain the sundering resistance because the majority of the lance would still be wooden. The best way to deal with spell pouch sundering is to buy several (or keep your components in a handy haversack like Jindl used to do.) -Jindl
Snommelp 12-01-04, 03:54 PM	With that in mind, is it possible to have an adamantine spell component pouch? :) Methinks the best you can do is craft an Adamantine chainmail pouch to put you spell component pouch in. Otherwise, the spell components might come out.
Dalton Onestone 12-01-04, 05:59 PM	Thanks! My new gladiator will be crafting for himself in mithril and/or darkwood soon. Meanwhile, I have another character who some day plans to get an adamantine Vest of Many Rogue Skills (kind of like a Circlet of Persuasion, but for DEX).
Ashenai 12-01-04, 06:38 PM	Sorry, no custom magic items allowed... only what's actually in the DMG or the SRD.
Pitlords 12-01-04, 07:03 PM	PAIRINGS DONE! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=2700233#post2700233) Send tactics to your pitlord Pitlords may begin to run fights on saturday without tactics Fights due monday Late penalties on tuesday Credit Changes: +2: Battousais, Pittbull, Caterane +1: Ayatoshi, T'Var, Huan, Ashenai, Jindl +0: Snommelp, Sindorin -1: Snarkhunter Also, please stop sending "I :love: Cat" PMs. My account is flooding over! Good fight, good night!
Caterane 12-01-04, 07:41 PM	Okay, are you ready for the FINAL FIGHT? The fight about who will be the winner of the race to level 20? Here it is: The Harvester vs Angosh (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4957873#post4957873) I wrote a story around it which a historical fight like that surely deserves. Enjoy! Edit: Damn, Ixenthor's echoing speech doesn't work anymore because the size = 0 command is no more. Any idea how I can decrease the size of the letters?
Huan 12-01-04, 08:01 PM	Come on everyone, standing ovation! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Bravo!
Ashenai 12-01-04, 08:18 PM	*nervous breakdown* *looks at fight roster, cheers up* Level 10? I can do level 10. Things are still more or less sane at Level 10. :) (Great story, Cat)
Jindl 12-01-04, 09:21 PM	Also, please stop sending "I :love: Cat" PMs. My account is flooding over! Okay, I'll stop sending them... -Jindl
Dalton Onestone 12-01-04, 09:57 PM	Sorry, no custom magic items allowed... only what's actually in the DMG or the SRD. I didn't mean here. But that does bring up a question. If I understand correctly, the potions, rods, rings, and wonderous items are exactly the ones listed. Scrolls and wands, however, are available for all spells as per the rules. But what about arms and armor? Can you mix/match traits, accumulating bonuses as per the item construction rules?
Ashenai 12-01-04, 09:59 PM	I didn't mean here. But that does bring up a question. If I understand correctly, the potions, rods, rings, and wonderous items are exactly the ones listed. Scrolls and wands, however, are available for all spells as per the rules. But what about arms and armor? Can you mix/match traits, accumulating bonuses as per the item construction rules? Yes. You can have a +2 Light Fortification, Slick, Silent Moves Mithril Breastplate, for example.
Dalton Onestone 12-01-04, 11:22 PM	I got confused again. The link at the top of the FAQ to the "pairings" actually just points to the roster. But I remembered the magic of scrolling down, and now know I must face the fearsome Cremator.
T'Var 12-01-04, 11:45 PM	I got confused again. The link at the top of the FAQ to the "pairings" actually just points to the roster. But I remembered the magic of scrolling down, and now know I must face the fearsome Cremator. and the world shall burn
Caterane 12-02-04, 04:26 AM	Okay, I'll stop sending them... -Jindl LOL That was the funniest thing I've ever read from you
Pittbull 12-02-04, 05:13 AM	:OMG! @CAT:WOW! What happenend before this fight: Pitt: :plotting: --> Cat: :teach: -->Pitt: :shocked: + :thinks: , again --> Cat+Pitt: :fight!: --> Pitt: :whatsthis --> :OMG! ---> :surrender :bow: :clap:
Dalton Onestone 12-02-04, 06:02 AM	and the world shall burn Could be. I thought at Level 2 I could afford to skimp on my anti-Invisibility magic. Won't happen again. It didn't occur to me somebody wouldn't even bring a bow to the fight. :) But even invisible, are you sure you can hit an armored dwarf with decent dexterity? His AC is something like 25 for the first hour of the fight ...
Pittbull 12-02-04, 11:02 AM	Please give me a short update. How do we handle power-resistence and spell-resistence? There two different ways discribed in the EXPH, but what is core and what do we use?
T'Var 12-02-04, 11:31 AM	Please give me a short update. How do we handle power-resistence and spell-resistence? There two different ways discribed in the EXPH, but what is core and what do we use? dont think there is a CoCo desided way but i ran them as transparancy. so SR can stop psionicns and PR can stop spells
Pittbull 12-02-04, 11:35 AM	dont think there is a CoCo desided way but i ran them as transparancy. so SR can stop psionicns and PR can stop spells OK, do lower the SR protecting against powers by 10 as written in the EXPH? And, of course, vice versa!
T'Var 12-02-04, 12:09 PM	OK, do lower the SR protecting against powers by 10 as written in the EXPH? And, of course, vice versa! um no, i used the full transparancy. SR19 = PR19 vice versa like i said though the CoCo has never addressed this feature or atleast has not put it down anywhere that i have found
Beldin 12-02-04, 12:39 PM	I believe we use "full transparency" dispel magic will dispel psionics and SR applies to psionics, too.
Ashenai 12-02-04, 05:15 PM	Yes, that is correct. We use the magic-psionic transparency rules.
Beldin 12-02-04, 05:46 PM	oh man; 2:2. Schade... btw nice story Cat. A good ending for the first run to lvl 20. ;)
Ayatoshi 12-02-04, 07:13 PM	To use a wand do you have to be a spellcasting class?
Ashenai 12-02-04, 07:32 PM	More than that; you have to have the spell on your class spell list. So for example, a Paladin could use a Wand of Cure Serious Wounds, but a Wizard couldn't. A Fighter or a Rogue couldn't use any wands at all, unless they put ranks in the Use Magic Device skill.
Dalton Onestone 12-03-04, 12:59 AM	I'd like to name my as-yet-unnamed grumpy true-neutral dwarf fighter/luck-cleric Shyssegal. However, I would appreciate the opinion of a German speaker as to whether that would violate proper decorum. :)
Dalton Onestone 12-03-04, 01:00 AM	More than that; you have to have the spell on your class spell list. So for example, a Paladin could use a Wand of Cure Serious Wounds, but a Wizard couldn't. A Fighter or a Rogue couldn't use any wands at all, unless they put ranks in the Use Magic Device skill. Does that also mean (I think it does) that for a Bard who is untrained in UMD to use a CLW scroll, it has to be of the Bard version of the spell (minimum CL = 2), etc.?
Beldin 12-03-04, 03:09 AM	oh no, he said the s-word :eek: since shyssegal does not exist in German it does not violate anything ;)
turalisj 12-03-04, 07:18 AM	um, when are the pairings done?
Dalton Onestone 12-03-04, 07:46 AM	oh no, he said the s-word :eek: since shyssegal does not exist in German it does not violate anything ;) I was hoping the spelling was sufficiently off to pass muster ... :) "Es ist mir S______ egal" is a phrase I heard often growing up ... in a house where vulgarity was generally frowned upon, come to think of it.
T'Var 12-03-04, 08:11 AM	um, when are the pairings done? Wednesday after 9pm GTM
Dalton Onestone 12-03-04, 08:22 AM	Wednesday after 9pm GTM That's a lot like 9 pm GMT, which, I think, is a lot like 3 pm EST or noon PST.
Caterane 12-03-04, 10:44 AM	I'd like to name my as-yet-unnamed grumpy true-neutral dwarf fighter/luck-cleric Shyssegal. However, I would appreciate the opinion of a German speaker as to whether that would violate proper decorum. :) The correct spelling is "Scheißegal". Okay, it's not a word that should be used while holding a paper but IMO it's not that bad but I can't speak for everyone. During my stay in the US I had a character called "Heftiger Angriff" which actually means Powerattack though I didn't tell them because they loved the sound of it :)
Sindorin 12-03-04, 10:51 AM	The correct spelling is "Scheißegal". Okay, it's not a word that should be used while holding a paper but IMO it's not that bad but I can't speak for everyone. During my stay in the US I had a character called "Heftiger Angriff" which actually means Powerattack though I didn't tell them because they loved the sound of it :) Don't mind me, but what would "Shyssegal" translate to? If the answer would be inappropriate or something, just PM me, I'm curious because I took German classes in High School.
Jindl 12-03-04, 11:08 AM	Snark- Anna has been waiting a long time for Evram to get to 11th level. How about a challenge? -Jindl
Sindorin 12-03-04, 11:45 AM	This may seem a bit silly of a question, but... How long can an action be readied? The reason I ask is that I was thinking about this while driving home from school - Could a character prebuff a readied action? This may help sometimes because I have noticed more and more fights are decided because of who wins initiative - in some cases, prebuffing a readied action may give some init victims a fighting chance. I'm pretty sure though that the readied action would only last one round instead of sixteen hours, so it would not be possible. It would be kind of silly to sit there for 16 hours readying an action. I don't know if I am making any sense, so I'll let someone respond off what I have already.
T'Var 12-03-04, 12:11 PM	what I have found silly is the fact that round 1 someone can be flat footed in an arena fight even in the dmg(which i dont have assess to right now to find/quote from if both opponents are aware of each others hostile intent there is no flat-foot being FF usually accures when a pack or orcs jumps out from behind a rock and is combined with a suprize round, since both gladiators KNOW they are here to fight they wouldnt be cought by suprize
Jindl 12-03-04, 12:17 PM	This may seem a bit silly of a question, but... How long can an action be readied? The reason I ask is that I was thinking about this while driving home from school - Could a character prebuff a readied action? This may help sometimes because I have noticed more and more fights are decided because of who wins initiative - in some cases, prebuffing a readied action may give some init victims a fighting chance. I'm pretty sure though that the readied action would only last one round instead of sixteen hours, so it would not be possible. It would be kind of silly to sit there for 16 hours readying an action. I don't know if I am making any sense, so I'll let someone respond off what I have already. You cannot ready an action outside of combat. So you cannot prebuff a readied action. what I have found silly is the fact that round 1 someone can be flat footed in an arena fight even in the dmg(which i dont have assess to right now to find/quote from if both opponents are aware of each others hostile intent there is no flat-foot being FF usually accures when a pack or orcs jumps out from behind a rock and is combined with a suprize round, since both gladiators KNOW they are here to fight they wouldnt be cought by suprize That is incorrect. According to the DMG, if both opponents are aware of each other, then there is not a surprise round. PC's are still flat-footed until they take their first turn in combat. -Jindl
Sindorin 12-03-04, 12:58 PM	Yeah, I figured as much.
SnarkHunter 12-03-04, 03:50 PM	Snark- Anna has been waiting a long time for Evram to get to 11th level. How about a challenge? -Jindl Oh Anna aye? An intriguing notion... I'll think about it. Pretty handy being immune to Egowhip and stunning I can't help but notice :cool:. Edit: Jindl could you post a link to Anna? She's not on the roster any more.
KerlanRayne 12-03-04, 04:44 PM	um, when are the pairings done?In case you didn't know, here's your pairing: Assim Veerxes (Turalisj) vs Tara Brightblade (Snommelp): PittbullAlso, your character sheet is pretty sparse, If you want, you can copy one of my character's sheets and alter it for yours. Just hit the quote button and copy the sheet. Khalil is a 3rd level Xeph and Cyric is an 11th level Shaper. Either one or both could help you. KerlanRayne PS - Pairings are 4pm WED here in the U.S.'s Eastern Time Zone. EDIT - Also, we use 36 point buy but you used 46. Drop that CON to 14 and you'll be OK.
Jindl 12-03-04, 06:32 PM	Edit: Jindl could you post a link to Anna? She's not on the roster any more. Here. She needs a little updating (and a cohort), but she is basically ready. -Jindl
Battousai2005 12-03-04, 07:25 PM	Ok, question. What do we do about creatures with strange anatomy and wonderous items? I only ask because my drider (in the works...) is looking at what items to buy. I noticed some boots I wanted, but the whole 8 legs thing was kinda an issue I wasn't sure about. EDIT: Oh, and can someone define a climb speed to me? What does it allow you to do?
Dalton Onestone 12-03-04, 10:12 PM	The correct spelling is "Scheißegal". Okay, it's not a word that should be used while holding a paper but IMO it's not that bad but I can't speak for everyone. Ahh. I thought it was two words. But then, I've never seen it written down before. "Est is mir ganz egal" would translate to "I don't care at all one way or the other." "Es ist mir scheißegal" means the same thing, but translates most directly to "I don't give a ___" I figure that's a good motto for a true neutral, luck-oriented, unlikeable character ...
Battousai2005 12-03-04, 11:57 PM	And who says you can't learn things on message boards? ;) Anyway, I recently played the newest Prince of Persia. Warrior Within. Awesome game. I thought, "You know, the prince just kicks booty. I mean, he does flips, slices, dices, and likely would kill the person who suggested he makes fries." So, ladies and gentlemen, we now entertain royalty. I give you, The Prince of Persia! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=190985&page=275&pp=1) Anyway, I give you my latest for-fun build. I thought I'd give it a whirl.
Snommelp 12-04-04, 12:26 AM	Oh, and can someone define a climb speed to me? What does it allow you to do? I believe that a climb speed means that the creature can take 10 on a climb check even during circumstances that would say otherwise, like combat. Or maybe it's take 20...
scaryfroman 12-04-04, 12:44 AM	I also think that you dont need a climb check for DCs less than 10. You can also double move and charge while climbing.
scaryfroman 12-04-04, 01:20 AM	Here's a CoCo question: My character Anton's fight from last week was just rerun, and the result was different. However, This week, pairings have been made and tactics have been sent. What happens now?
Piuro 12-04-04, 01:21 AM	*erased*
KerlanRayne 12-04-04, 03:22 AM	Oh, and can someone define a climb speed to me? What does it allow you to do?Climb: A creature with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. The creature must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC of more than 0, but it always can choose to take 10 even if rushed or threatened while climbing. The creature climbs at the given speed while climbing. If it chooses an accelerated climb it moves at double the given climb speed (or its base land speed, whichever is lower) and makes a single Climb check at a –5 penalty. Creatures cannot run while climbing. A creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus on their attacks against a climbing creature.KerlanRayne
Pitlords 12-04-04, 05:16 AM	Here's a CoCo question: My character Anton's fight from last week was just rerun, and the result was different. However, This week, pairings have been made and tactics have been sent. What happens now? The pairing Sir Anton vs Ilyx Solus is cancelled. Sir Anton is now level 2. Ilyx Solus gains a * Sindorin gains a credit T'Var keeps his credit even though his fight has been cancelled. Sorry for the confusion but I didn't see that the fight was about to be rerun. Sir Anton was updated to level 3 and set ready for Dec 1. If Kerlan Rayne agrees I can pair Ilyx Solus with Khalil Odad so that there would be a substitute fight. Both of you would have to send tactics quickly.
Battousai2005 12-04-04, 10:13 AM	OK, so my climb speed is mostly answered. One last bit. It says they can do any climb check above 10. Does that include being able to move up the pillars in the arena like spider climbing wizards are so fond of doing? Also, what is the rule around here for wonderous items and unusual creatures. My example would be can a chimera (a potential cohort) use something like boots of speed?
Sindorin 12-04-04, 01:51 PM	The pairing Sir Anton vs Ilyx Solus is cancelled. Sir Anton is now level 2. Ilyx Solus gains a * Sindorin gains a credit T'Var keeps his credit even though his fight has been cancelled. Sorry for the confusion but I didn't see that the fight was about to be rerun. Sir Anton was updated to level 3 and set ready for Dec 1. If Kerlan Rayne agrees I can pair Ilyx Solus with Khalil Odad so that there would be a substitute fight. Both of you would have to send tactics quickly. hum... oh well. I'll write and have tactics ready for whatever KR says. Edit: I've sent her tactics forward to the Pitlords account because I will be busy today and wouldn't be here to catch the signal if the pairing was made. If they could please be forwarded to the pitlord if the pairing is made, that would be great. Thanks.
Piuro 12-04-04, 03:58 PM	Sorry for all this mess. :(
Sindorin 12-04-04, 05:13 PM	Sorry for all this mess. :( It's not a big deal. If something like that ever happens again, a tip to consider for future pitlording would be to send PMs to both people whose gladiators you are running, and another to the Pitlords account letting them know that your fight was up on time but needs modifying and may be changed.
Dalton Onestone 12-04-04, 09:17 PM	From the fight thread: Aureus Naïlo drinks potion of mage armor (AC+ 1) Why isn't that +4???
Pitlords 12-04-04, 09:19 PM	Level 3 Cliché Ferech (Sindorin) vs Cedric Fischer (Snommelp): Battousais Taryn Thunderstorm (Jindl) vs Hagrid (Pittbull): Snommelp Khalil Odar (KerlanRayne) vs Illyx Solus (Sindorin): T'Var has been added to the Roster! Please try to get this fight finished on time but if it isn't up before wednesday, it will be extended into next week without penalty to any of the affected parties.
WizO_Shadow 12-04-04, 09:29 PM	After two long months, a hard decision was made regarding the changes I implemented into the CoCo. Please see the thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4979796#post4979796 Thank you everyone for your patientce and understanding! WizO_Shadow
Battousai2005 12-04-04, 10:13 PM	And lets hear a round of applause for Wiz O Shadow! :cheer: :cheer: :clap: :w00t: :dancin: You know, I am glad this is something I have to look foreward to. I have to admit, I left because I was getting tired of the arena. This gives me hope! Oh, congrats to Ashenai on your newfound GM status. I would like to say that you deserve it. Now, if I can ask just a small, tiny, insignificant favor? WILL SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION!!! I am working on my drider and would seriously like an answer. Gratis!
T'Var 12-04-04, 10:59 PM	OK, so my climb speed is mostly answered. One last bit. It says they can do any climb check above 10. Does that include being able to move up the pillars in the arena like spider climbing wizards are so fond of doing? Also, what is the rule around here for wonderous items and unusual creatures. My example would be can a chimera (a potential cohort) use something like boots of speed? It has a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened. it does not say you can do any check above 10, it says you can take ten at any time. big difference, and DCs are listed in the Climb Skill DC 25 A rough surface, such as a natural rock wall or a brick wall. that is the closest format to the pillars as for your other question, wonderous items are created for humanoids, and usually will grow/shrink to match the humanoid wearing them from a halfling, to a frost giant. they will not work on non-humaniod type creatures
Ashenai 12-04-04, 11:30 PM	Thanks, Batt. :) Wondrous item slots for non-humanoids always was a sticky issue. Just saying "they won't work on humanoids" is probably not a good idea; why on earth couldn't a Drider wear a headband, for instance? Looking at the picture of the Drider in the MM, though, I think it's pretty clear that it shouldn't be able to wear boots.
Dalton Onestone 12-05-04, 12:36 AM	Wondrous item slots for non-humanoids always was a sticky issue. Just saying "they won't work on humanoids" is probably not a good idea; why on earth couldn't a Drider wear a headband, for instance? There's a simple rule change solution: Allow wondrous items that directly copy known wondrous items, and waive the body slot affinities rule. If you do the second part, the first part should not produce any significant administrative burden. While we're at it, I propose another rule change: Allowing, for example, a Headband of Intellect +3, and similar item variations where the price is crystal-clear by the rules. All ability and skill enhancers have prices proportional to the square of the bonus -- there's really no exception I can think of that comes to mind, except that a couple (one being the Escape Vest) seem to disregard the cost guidelines for combining abilities in one item, and the Circlet of Persuasion gives a small quantity discount, at five times the price of enhancing a specific skill. (And that seems fair -- who's going to want to pay for enhancing more than a few CHA-based skills anyway? What's more, it's irrelevant to the Arena; nobody will want it for combat here. Ditto for the Escape Vest.)
Battousai2005 12-05-04, 01:07 AM	There's a simple rule change solution: Allow wondrous items that directly copy known wondrous items, and waive the body slot affinities rule. If you do the second part, the first part should not produce any significant administrative burden. While we're at it, I propose another rule change: Allowing, for example, a Headband of Intellect +3, and similar item variations where the price is crystal-clear by the rules. All ability and skill enhancers have prices proportional to the square of the bonus -- there's really no exception I can think of that comes to mind, except that a couple (one being the Escape Vest) seem to disregard the cost guidelines for combining abilities in one item, and the Circlet of Persuasion gives a small quantity discount, at five times the price of enhancing a specific skill. (And that seems fair -- who's going to want to pay for enhancing more than a few CHA-based skills anyway? What's more, it's irrelevant to the Arena; nobody will want it for combat here. Ditto for the Escape Vest.) To be perfectly blunt, what the heck is the point of an item granting an odd bonus? Modifyers go by even, right? Now that you bring it up, Ashenai, I do seem to recall this debate somewhere before. I think the original issue was can a centaur use horseshoes of speed. I don't recall the verdict. I think the person who brought it up basically gave up the centaur afterward. Lets see. Driders basically have all the body slots necessary for everything but boots. Not a bad trade for a climb speed, I suppose. Not to mention the bonus of having more than 2 legs. Speaking of characters, I think there are some characters from some guys with no lives (i.e. MysticMonk and myself) who could use a glance on the last page.
Snommelp 12-05-04, 01:30 AM	A head's up to all who may be interested: Cedric Fischer is now retired.
T'Var 12-05-04, 01:42 AM	Thanks, Batt. :) Wondrous item slots for non-humanoids always was a sticky issue. Just saying "they won't work on humanoids" is probably not a good idea; why on earth couldn't a Drider wear a headband, for instance? Looking at the picture of the Drider in the MM, though, I think it's pretty clear that it shouldn't be able to wear boots. very true, I should have phrazed that as "if the shoe can fit , you can wear it" Get it....Drider....shoe......ok i suck as a comic sue me;)
Dalton Onestone 12-05-04, 01:44 AM	To be perfectly blunt, what the heck is the point of an item granting an odd bonus? Modifyers go by even, right? But you gain ability points one at a time. One new point, a +1 on an item, and bam -- you've added another +1 to a modifier.
Ashenai 12-05-04, 06:54 AM	But you gain ability points one at a time. One new point, a +1 on an item, and bam -- you've added another +1 to a modifier. ...which is exactly why I don't like this modification (whoah, deja vu... I had this exact same conversation with my players a few days back). A +1 to a modifier should, and does, cost 4000 gp. Allowing it for a quarter of that price is, IMO, unbalanced. There's a reason all spells, racial ability modifiers, and magic item ability score bonuses are even numbers. It's to avoid GURPS-like min-maxing, putting an odd number on an ability score and trusting some modifier to flip it over to an even score. Also, the custom magic item rules are broken beyond belief; I do not trust the prices given at all. For instance, Bracers of Permanent Mage Armor would cost just 2000 gp, according to the table... even though they are exactly the same as Bracers of Armor +4, which cost 16000 gp. Reasons like these are why we don't allow custom magic items in the CoCo.
Dalton Onestone 12-05-04, 07:06 AM	Also, the custom magic item rules are broken beyond belief; I do not trust the prices given at all. For instance, Bracers of Permanent Mage Armor would cost just 2000 gp, according to the table... even though they are exactly the same as Bracers of Armor +4, which cost 16000 gp. Reasons like these are why we don't allow custom magic items in the CoCo. I was suggestion ONLY allowing custom items that had clearly defined pricing rules which were known to work. So this objection is IMO unfounded. Your other one is a perfectly valid opinion I happen to disagree with -- but then, truth be told, I lean more to GURPS than to D&D.
Battousai2005 12-05-04, 04:06 PM	Question: I noticed that on Kage, I took improved critical and Keen on a katana, but I didn't realize they didn't stack. Would anyone mind if I switched my feat to imp crit (bastard sword) to improved crit (Short sword)?
Ashenai 12-05-04, 04:19 PM	Question: I noticed that on Kage, I took improved critical and Keen on a katana, but I didn't realize they didn't stack. Would anyone mind if I switched my feat to imp crit (bastard sword) to improved crit (Short sword)? Not a problem. Feel free. :)
SnarkHunter 12-05-04, 08:09 PM	So Jindl are you going to unretire Anna or should I make ready to do battle with Cyric again?
Jindl 12-05-04, 08:39 PM	So Jindl are you going to unretire Anna or should I make ready to do battle with Cyric again? Since I guess that means you accept Anna's challenge, she will be set ready :D -Jindl
Pittbull 12-06-04, 02:53 AM	Congrats, Ash! I'm a weekend off and look, we have a new GM! :clap:
Pittbull 12-06-04, 08:57 AM	How do we handle the spell "awaken"? There is the old CoCo-rule, that there're no rolls outside the arena, but it's possible to hire a druid, who casts this spell on your allies!
Dalton Onestone 12-06-04, 09:12 AM	Are the following exceptions to the rule that you can only craft a magical item if you know the prerequisite spells? 1. You buy a scroll and successfully cast from it. 2. You have a cohort (through the Leadership feat) and he knows the spell.
Pittbull 12-06-04, 09:41 AM	Are the following exceptions to the rule that you can only craft a magical item if you know the prerequisite spells? 1. You buy a scroll and successfully cast from it. 2. You have a cohort (through the Leadership feat) and he knows the spell. (1) As I mentioned above, there are no rolls outside the arena, but if take 10 is sufficient, it's possible. (2) In the CoCo, cohorts are not allowed to craft anything!
Jindl 12-06-04, 12:06 PM	(1) As I mentioned above, there are no rolls outside the arena, but if take 10 is sufficient, it's possible. You cannot take 10 on caster level checks to use scrolls or on UMD checks. So, you must be able to cast the scroll yourself without needing to make one of these checks. This is really only helpful to sorcerors/bards/assassins, as a wizard would likely just scribe the scroll into their spellbook and then craft the item, and clerics/druids/paladins/rangers wouldn't need a scroll to create the item because they can memorize any spell from their class list. -Jindl
T'Var 12-06-04, 12:10 PM	You cannot take 10 on caster level checks to use scrolls or on UMD checks. So, you must be able to cast the scroll yourself without needing to make one of these checks. This is really only helpful to sorcerors/bards/assassins, as a wizard would likely just scribe the scroll into their spellbook and then craft the item, and clerics/druids/paladins/rangers wouldn't need a scroll to create the item because they can memorize any spell from their class list. -Jindl true, but lets say you are a sor who has a scroll and wish to make a magic item. if your will save is above a 5 you cannot misscast and consume the scroll, so it would just be a matter of turns before you succeeded
Jindl 12-06-04, 12:36 PM	true, but lets say you are a sor who has a scroll and wish to make a magic item. if your will save is above a 5 you cannot misscast and consume the scroll, so it would just be a matter of turns before you succeeded You will still fail the Will save on a natural 1, causing a mishap and destroying the scroll (and believe me, its happened before in the CoCo). So it is not just a matter of time before you succeed. -Jindl
Ashenai 12-06-04, 01:07 PM	Congrats, Ash! I'm a weekend off and look, we have a new GM! Thank you! :) How do we handle the spell "awaken"? There is the old CoCo-rule, that there're no rolls outside the arena, but it's possible to hire a druid, who casts this spell on your allies! Well... *cough* you didn't hear this from me, but there's nothing in the rules against casting a Maximized Awaken... Otherwise, it should probably be handled the same way Evram's Dominates are; you include the casting of Awaken in your tactics, and the pitlord rolls for awaken stats at the beginning of the fight. Since the exact Charisma and Intelligence stats your ally gets are unlikely to influence your tactics, this should work fine. Regarding using scrolls to craft magic items: first of all, note that you need to expend a scroll for every day of crafting the item. Since the crafting time of a magic item is one day per 1000 gp value, this means you just divide the value of the magic item you want to craft by 1000, round up, and get the number of scrolls you'll need. I did the math on this, and figured out that if you need a level 3 or higher spell, it's cheaper just to buy the magic item then to craft it with scrolls. Regarding the "no rolls outside the Arena thing"; perhaps we could make it possible for this to also work similarly to Evram's Dominate. After all, the person making UMD checks or crafter level checks will eventually succeed, it's just a question of how much money he'll end up spending. So how about the character pay the expected costs for the scrolls, then include this in his tactics, and his pitlord then makes all UMD or caster level rolls. If the character botches any, he is docked the cost of the extra scrolls. Thoughts?
T'Var 12-06-04, 01:52 PM	You will still fail the Will save on a natural 1, causing a mishap and destroying the scroll (and believe me, its happened before in the CoCo). So it is not just a matter of time before you succeed. -Jindl ahh true 'nuff. good catch Jindl
Jindl 12-06-04, 01:54 PM	Well... *cough* you didn't hear this from me, but there's nothing in the rules against casting a Maximized Awaken... Otherwise, it should probably be handled the same way Evram's Dominates are; you include the casting of Awaken in your tactics, and the pitlord rolls for awaken stats at the beginning of the fight. Since the exact Charisma and Intelligence stats your ally gets are unlikely to influence your tactics, this should work fine. The problem is, under the Core rules there is no way for you to keep the awakened creature as an ally. Per the Core rules, awakened creatures are unsuitable as animal companions, familiars or special mounts. Also, since they have an Int > 2, you cannot acquire or keep them with the handle animal skill. And because they are LA --, you can't have them as cohorts. In short, unless you are using a dominate tactics like Evram (and its questionable IMHO), then you couldn't have an awakened ally. Regarding the "no rolls outside the Arena thing"; perhaps we could make it possible for this to also work similarly to Evram's Dominate. After all, the person making UMD checks or crafter level checks will eventually succeed, it's just a question of how much money he'll end up spending. So how about the character pay the expected costs for the scrolls, then include this in his tactics, and his pitlord then makes all UMD or caster level rolls. If the character botches any, he is docked the cost of the extra scrolls. Thoughts? We must require the character to maintain extra money in case he botches a few of the rolls, otherwise the character could be in a "- gp" situation. And if we decide that the character can't have the item if he ran out of gp from botching rolls, then both players have to modify their tactics to account for the removed item. I think when it comes using higher level scrolls/powerstones/etc, having the pitlord make the rolls probably creates more problems than its worth, and we should continue to disallow these rolls being made outside of the arena. Rolls for effects/durations of prebuffs I don't really mind (like the random hps from a false life, or the random duration of control weather). But not checks to use higher level magic stuff. -Jindl
T'Var 12-06-04, 02:05 PM	The problem is, under the Core rules there is no way for you to keep the awakened creature as an ally. Per the Core rules, awakened creatures are unsuitable as animal companions, familiars or special mounts. Also, since they have an Int > 2, you cannot acquire or keep them with the handle animal skill. And because they are LA --, you can't have them as cohorts. In short, unless you are using a dominate tactics like Evram (and its questionable IMHO), then you couldn't have an awakened ally. -Jindl actually Im not sure i read it as such..having an LA is just like having a higher ECL than your HD. it means it has special powers that make it stronger than its HD suggjest an awakened creatures gain 2 extra hit dice and thus become a stronger creature, but have no LA because they are as strong as there HD suggjests they would be. I see nothing in Leadership feat that says your cohort Must have an LA just that if it does you must take that into effect on your leadership score
Kaigan 12-06-04, 02:34 PM	Hey, I've posted a new character. Tard, the twin of Pard. Here it is... Tard Longfellow "Twin of the Lord of the Bumps"
Jindl 12-06-04, 03:00 PM	actually Im not sure i read it as such..having an LA is just like having a higher ECL than your HD. it means it has special powers that make it stronger than its HD suggjest an awakened creatures gain 2 extra hit dice and thus become a stronger creature, but have no LA because they are as strong as there HD suggjests they would be. I see nothing in Leadership feat that says your cohort Must have an LA just that if it does you must take that into effect on your leadership score You must have a listed LA in order to be eligible as a PC race or a cohort (it could be +1 like a tiefling, or +0 like a dwarf, elf, or human). LA -- creatures are not eligible as races for characters or cohorts. An awakened animal is a LA -- creature. -Jindl
Ashenai 12-06-04, 03:25 PM	Regarding Tard Longfellow; you might want to reconsider his name. :) Tard is a slang expression, short for "retard". That aside, everything looks fine, and that's a mighty well-kept character sheet. Kudos. One tiny issue; the total cost of your equipment is 868, not 862. Since your "gold remaining" (132) is correct, though, I think that's just a typo. Jindl has an excellent point regarding Awaken, though I believe Dominate would still be a viable method for having an Awakened animal as a cohort. As for the whole UMD/CL checks outside the Arena thing: I agree that it would be a bit of a bother, and a good deal of extra work for very little gain. On the other hand, I don't see any rules reason for disallowing it, and I've always been somewhat critical of our long-standing "no rolls outside the Arena" rule (which is somewhat broken by Evram and his griffin in any case). I don't really have a strong opinion on this either way, though. Maybe worth looking at by the Elders?
Magagumo 12-06-04, 04:03 PM	Hey all!! Well, I've been absent for awhile, and will continue to be so for at least the next month or so- My senior comp work has gotten tough (and plentiful), and I will be going home to an unreliable connection for a month and have lots of other things to handle during that time- namely grad school applications. We'll see what the next semester brings, but I wish you all good luck! Catch you on the flip side. -Mag
Battousai2005 12-06-04, 06:33 PM	Regarding Tard Longfellow; you might want to reconsider his name. :) Tard is a slang expression, short for "retard". That aside, everything looks fine, and that's a mighty well-kept character sheet. Kudos. One tiny issue; the total cost of your equipment is 868, not 862. Since your "gold remaining" (132) is correct, though, I think that's just a typo. Trust me, he knows its a insult. And yes, I am sure it is intentional. Jindl has an excellent point regarding Awaken, though I believe Dominate would still be a viable method for having an Awakened animal as a cohort. As for the whole UMD/CL checks outside the Arena thing: I agree that it would be a bit of a bother, and a good deal of extra work for very little gain. On the other hand, I don't see any rules reason for disallowing it, and I've always been somewhat critical of our long-standing "no rolls outside the Arena" rule (which is somewhat broken by Evram and his griffin in any case). I don't really have a strong opinion on this either way, though. Maybe worth looking at by the Elders? Well, yah, you can't keep it as an ally. Still, nothing saying you can't play a druid, cast it on your animal companion and then get a new one for next week. Still, considering how anti-druid psome people are around here, that is a suggestion you didn't hear from me, yah? I think Evram should have done a moster fight for his griffon, but that is my opinion. As to rolls out of the arena, I'm not sure. I think we try to keep everything as known as possible. My issue is that online dice rollers often delete thier records after, say, a month or so.
Jindl 12-06-04, 06:45 PM	It has been some time since both Myrridin and Magagumo offerred us a glimpse of playing in a CoCo Adventure. As time restrictions have sadly taken their toll on RttToEE and the Banewarrens, I would like to initiate my own game. Hopefully it will prove resilient and long lasting. My friends and I have recently acquired the Worlds Largest Dungeon (WLD). Intrigued by the challenge of such a vast module, we have begun playing it. Hopefully our experiences there will aid the running of this CoCo version of the WLD. If you are interested, please see the CoCo Adventures: WLD Set Up and Discussion Thread. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 12-06-04, 09:16 PM	I think Evram should have done a moster fight for his griffon, but that is my opinion. As to rolls out of the arena, I'm not sure. I think we try to keep everything as known as possible. My issue is that online dice rollers often delete thier records after, say, a month or so. Oh Evram did, i think it lasted like 1 round (augmented ego-whip eh?). IT should be linked on his char sheet somewhere.
Jindl 12-06-04, 09:28 PM	@Snark - Check the violations thread for a couple of minor things on Evram. -Jindl
Dalton Onestone 12-06-04, 09:43 PM	OK. I posted this in the violations thread, rightly or wrongly, but I'm still REALLY confused by my fight. I sent in tactics to the effect of "Have my guard dog patrol in front of me, and if he seems to notice something invisible, fire a Sleep spell over there." So far as I can tell, this wasn't used at all. But then, this is my first fight ever, and I'm not sure which lines on the play by play even pertain to what my character did, so maybe I missed something. I guess I'm VERY confused ....
Ashenai 12-06-04, 11:18 PM	Trust me, he knows its a insult. And yes, I am sure it is intentional. Ah, okay, no problem then. I'll add him to the roster. :) Well, yah, you can't keep it as an ally. Still, nothing saying you can't play a druid, cast it on your animal companion and then get a new one for next week. Still, considering how anti-druid psome people are around here, that is a suggestion you didn't hear from me, yah? That's not going to happen... Awaken has a casting time of 24 hours, meaning it can't be cast in the Arena. And if you cast it on your animal companion outside of the Arena... well, it's not your animal companion any more. :) I think Evram should have done a moster fight for his griffon, but that is my opinion. He did. As to rolls out of the arena, I'm not sure. I think we try to keep everything as known as possible. My issue is that online dice rollers often delete thier records after, say, a month or so. As long as we're not forcing people to use online rollers, that's not an issue. Plenty of people use real dice instead of the online rollers; I used real dice myself a couple of times, when the online roller fell off the Net, or when I just felt like it. @Jindl: Another CoCo-adventure! :cheer: :dancin: :clap: :bow:
LLMadCow 12-07-04, 08:32 AM	Okay everyone. As promised, I am back and ready for action. I will have at least one fighter fighting this week. We shall see which one soon. If anyone is interested in either Herrix or Mr. Big, please let me know and I will be more than happy to shift my focus one way or the other. Pitlords petition - The last fight that I had with Mr. Big was run without tactics, as I was unaware that the player running the fight had not recieved them. I would have resent them, but I had been away from the boards, but still checking e-mails. Does this have to remain as a loss, or can that Non-Fight be expunged? Anything new and exciting? Last note - what do you all think of the LLMadCow Creature Entry that I am working on?
Beldin 12-07-04, 09:01 AM	Good you are back! Rhaegar would be really happy if he could fight Herrix!
Pittbull 12-07-04, 09:11 AM	Anything new and exciting? Hey, welcome back! Just look at Ashenais username. EDIT: Is it possible to make a dwarf-halfcelestial without class-levels and start as ECL4, or is it necessary to give him a class-level and start ECL5, like Ixidor? ECL4 would be 9 credits, ECL5 is 12 credits, right?
Jindl 12-07-04, 11:31 AM	@Piuro - Taryn Thunderstorm would like to challenge Malsvir. -Jindl
Jindl 12-07-04, 11:31 AM	EDIT: Is it possible to make a dwarf-halfcelestial without class-levels and start as ECL4, or is it necessary to give him a class-level and start ECL5, like Ixidor? ECL4 would be 9 credits, ECL5 is 12 credits, right? ECL 5 with a class level is necessary.
Caterane 12-07-04, 01:31 PM	EDIT: Is it possible to make a dwarf-halfcelestial without class-levels and start as ECL4, or is it necessary to give him a class-level and start ECL5, like Ixidor? ECL4 would be 9 credits, ECL5 is 12 credits, right? Perhaps someone who avenges Dusk? Since your Angosh killed him, it's up to you to replace him! ;)
LLMadCow 12-07-04, 01:50 PM	Rhaegar would be really happy if he could fight Herrix! Challenge accepted! Be ready!
Caterane 12-07-04, 04:20 PM	@ALL: The Pitlord Account gets a new avatar and it will be a Custom Avatar! I thought this is a perfect opportunity to create an official CoCo symbol. I am not the best artist but there are surely enough out there. First I thought about a Black-Red-Gold background but Ash didn't like it :D. So if you have a better idea - and I'm sure you do! - post your creation here. The name CoCo should be included somewhere, or Core Coliseum. I'm eager to see your creations!!
Battousai2005 12-07-04, 08:18 PM	I'd just like to say rock on to mystic for his newest gladiator. Geeks of the world, unite!!!
Captain Mutilate 12-07-04, 10:03 PM	The CA sounds good. 80 by 80 pixels, right? And in case anyone cares the master of melee, Plaxis, will be retiring after this fight. I'm making my first spellcaster in the arena >.> <.<... A spellcaster, but what type? This is open to interpretation...
Snommelp 12-07-04, 10:52 PM	Quick question regarding monstrous characters: with the point buy, do you add racial stat bonuses before or after you buy your stats? Because if it's before then that could bring the power level of monstrous characters down quite a bit.
Ashenai 12-07-04, 11:06 PM	Quick question regarding monstrous characters: with the point buy, do you add racial stat bonuses before or after you buy your stats? Because if it's before then that could bring the power level of monstrous characters down quite a bit.After. So if you were playing, say, an Ogre, you could buy a 16 Strength for 10 points, then add the +10 racial bonus and end up with 26 Strength.
Snommelp 12-07-04, 11:24 PM	After. So if you were playing, say, an Ogre, you could buy a 16 Strength for 10 points, then add the +10 racial bonus and end up with 26 Strength. Thanks! The question isn't pressing, because I still need lots of fight credits before I think about making a troll or a nymph (which seem like such great character concepts in my head), but thank you for answering quickly! Speaking of the nymph and troll ideas, both are ECL 11, so that means that with 1 character level they would both be level 12. Is that 33 fight credits, 34 credits, or 36 credits?
Ashenai 12-07-04, 11:46 PM	Thanks! The question isn't pressing, because I still need lots of fight credits before I think about making a troll or a nymph (which seem like such great character concepts in my head), but thank you for answering quickly! I think both would be a lot of fun, but... Speaking of the nymph and troll ideas, both are ECL 11, so that means that with 1 character level they would both be level 12. Is that 33 fight credits, 34 credits, or 36 credits? The Nymph is ECL 13 without any character levels (6 hit dice, and an LA of +7). Since she has more than one hit dice of her own (unlike the half-celestial dwarf example Jindl answered earlier), you don't need to--and cannot--start her off with class levels. You'd need to start her at ECL 13, which would cost 33 credits (3 extra credits for every ECL above 2). The Troll is ECL 11 (6 hit dice, LA +5), and also does not need to be started off--and in fact cannot be started of--with class levels. He starts at ECL 11, and costs 27 credits.
SnarkHunter 12-08-04, 12:13 AM	You would though start off with gold appropriate to your level though (enough to buy two rings of energy resistance acid+fire for instance :)).
Battousai2005 12-08-04, 12:20 AM	Don't try nymph. In an offline camp, I tried one. Yah, the deflection bonus of god knows what was nice, but the -7 hd hurt like no other. You'd be surprised how fast that DR goes bye bye with a 28 STR half orc barb (who, btw, is not raging yet) is meleeing you with a greatsword. Pain. I was considering for a while using one in the COCO, as some of the older members may remember, but gave up when I saw the sheer number of credits you would need. Still, the +10 deflection bonus to AC almost made it worth it. Troll might be fun. The regenration would be nice, surely. Course, the fact, agian, its a high LA might hurt a bit. Trolls would make nice meleers, but what would they use as a mount. Maybe a huge spider...*mumbles over idea for possible mounted troll* Course, drider is something I thought I wouldnt' ever try. Then I saw the cast as 6th level caster with a mere +4 LA. The stats and Spell like abilities made up for it. Not to mention I would have about the same Hp as a wizard/sorcerer of about equal levle (yay Abberation d6 Hit die!). So I guess its risk vs. Reward. You sacrifice HP for cool stuff.
Snommelp 12-08-04, 02:47 AM	Thanks, guys. @ Ash: Yeah, I can count, I promise. As for the starting with class levels, I just got confused, what with the half-giants taking class levels. Of course, they're ECL 1, so that makes sense no matter the system for monstrous characters. @Battousai: Alright, I'll save the nymph for a more RP based game. Troll, on the other hand, still appeals to me. His Regen could make up for the lower HD, especially if I buy items to protect him from fire and acid. I might make him a monk to get a speed boost (mount wouldn't be such an issue then), or maybe a fighter to get around the lost feats... ...I have plenty of time to think about it, anyways, because those 27 credits aren't coming any time soon.
Caterane 12-08-04, 02:59 AM	Hm, maybe I should open a credit bank :plotting: :D
Pittbull 12-08-04, 03:23 AM	Hm, maybe I should open a credit bank :plotting: :D Hmm, nice idea, but don't forget, christmas's coming soon and it's nice to have some gifts! :D (Wink mit dem Zaunpfahl!)
Pittbull 12-08-04, 10:11 AM	Another tricky question: What happens, if a medium half-dragon uses the expansion-power? Grows the enlarged, "large" half-dragon wings? So, does he get a fly-speed, which is double his landspeed? Speed: A half-dragon that is Large or larger has wings and can fly at twice its base land speed (maximum 120 ft.) with average maneuverability. A half-dragon that is Medium or smaller does not have wings. Thanks!
Jindl 12-08-04, 10:26 AM	Another tricky question: What happens, if a medium half-dragon uses the expansion-power? Grows the enlarged, "large" half-dragon wings? So, does he get a fly-speed, which is double his landspeed? Thanks! According to a WoTC module (The Lord of the Iron Fortress) he does gain wings. There's a half-dragon duergar in there that uses expansion on himself, gaining wings in the process. It's a really great module, btw :D -Jindl
T'Var 12-08-04, 10:28 AM	Another tricky question: What happens, if a medium half-dragon uses the expansion-power? Grows the enlarged, "large" half-dragon wings? So, does he get a fly-speed, which is double his landspeed? Thanks! A half-dragon that is Medium or smaller does not have wings. you are still a medium creature who has grown thru magic/psionic reasons you dont sprout wings for a limited time EDIT (reads Jindl's post) well...noone ever said magic made sence
Caterane 12-08-04, 11:31 AM	:Summons the chains and swirls the lock: (copyright by WizO Shadow :D) Ok, 6000 is a proud number but all good things must come to an end. Please continue the discussion in the New Tavern (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=348562) Cat