Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caterane 04-24-04, 08:41 AM	Vaarkalikax the Lich king. Now that`s a cool idea for a character with much potential. Unfortunately it`s just another grey elf wizard. Great. I talked to Ethendril and he told me that he would love to play a real lich but with the current ruling it's not possible. 120.000 gold pieces for nothing are just insane! No character could afford this, not even at level 20. Then the Wizard 11 requirement makes this character ECL 15 to enter = 36 credits. Impossible. And even then, the character is short fun because he has only 5 levels to 20. What I want to say is: let`s allow lichs without the gp and lvl requirement. The gold is that not every wizard in a real campaign goes lich at the first opportunity, and the CL 11 req. assures that only casters go lich. Since we aren`t in a real campaign we could also just allow it; perhaps with a requirement to aquire 11 levels in a spellcasting class by level 20. The alternative is that we will never see a lich here. A pity indeed. I say let`s give Ethendril his fun and let him play a real lich instead of this imposter elf. The LA+4 already evens the benefits more than out; especially since some of his abilities will be useless against gladiators above lvl 5. What`s your opinion on that? Cat
kedi 04-24-04, 09:00 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Vaarkalikax the Lich king. Now that`s a cool idea for a character with much potential. Unfortunately it`s just another grey elf wizard. Great. I talked to Ethendril and he told me that he would love to play a real lich but with the current ruling it's not possible. 120.000 gold pieces for nothing are just insane! No character could afford this, not even at level 20. Then the Wizard 11 requirement makes this character ECL 15 to enter = 36 credits. Impossible. And even then, the character is short fun because he has only 5 levels to 20. What I want to say is: let`s allow lichs without the gp and lvl requirement. The gold is that not every wizard in a real campaign goes lich at the first opportunity, and the CL 11 req. assures that only casters go lich. Since we aren`t in a real campaign we could also just allow it; perhaps with a requirement to aquire 11 levels in a spellcasting class by level 20. The alternative is that we will never see a lich here. A pity indeed. I say let`s give Ethendril his fun and let him play a real lich instead of this imposter elf. The LA+4 already evens the benefits more than out; especially since some of his abilities will be useless against gladiators above lvl 5. What`s your opinion on that? Cat I say okay. That's the whole good about new forum, we can always something new. Allow him to fight only monsters or gladiators accepted to fight him. If we find him too overpowered, we'll kick his :censored: sounds fair enough :D Let's treat him multiclassed. So, he gets lesser money. Balances everything.
Battousai2005 04-24-04, 11:19 AM	Actually, the real kicker in a lich is one of the prereques, so to speak. Minimum caster level: 11 Sucks... I was actually going to give it a shot at one point. I then realized this and that I didn't want to save 45 creds or so. Regrettably, this is the minimum. There is a reason for the balance and logic. See, a lich has abilities that are not quite fair at low levels. Paralyze perminately? Thats the end of a match right there unless they have a buff ally/cleric. The other problem is that as far a practicality goes, a lich would have to be a high level caster. Supposedly, liches are supposed to be the baddest of the bad casters out there. How many truely powerful casters have you seen at level 1 or 2? Most fighters would destroy them at that level. Level 11 makes sense as most of the better spells are level 5 or later (cone of cold, telekenisis, teleport, baleful polymorph, and a few of the more obvious like lev 9 spells). Anyway, my vote is no. That would be bending the rules. While normally I enjoy doing that, I'm afraid the guidlines are quite clear in this case.
kedi 04-24-04, 11:34 AM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Actually, the real kicker in a lich is one of the prereques, so to speak. Minimum caster level: 11 Sucks... I was actually going to give it a shot at one point. I then realized this and that I didn't want to save 45 creds or so. Regrettably, this is the minimum. There is a reason for the balance and logic. See, a lich has abilities that are not quite fair at low levels. Paralyze perminately? Thats the end of a match right there unless they have a buff ally/cleric. The other problem is that as far a practicality goes, a lich would have to be a high level caster. Supposedly, liches are supposed to be the baddest of the bad casters out there. How many truely powerful casters have you seen at level 1 or 2? Most fighters would destroy them at that level. Level 11 makes sense as most of the better spells are level 5 or later (cone of cold, telekenisis, teleport, baleful polymorph, and a few of the more obvious like lev 9 spells). Anyway, my vote is no. That would be bending the rules. While normally I enjoy doing that, I'm afraid the guidlines are quite clear in this case. but as I said, if only the interested gladiators fought him, we could make a cool tryout. Plus, think of the potion of lichdom, 2ed. You coukld arrange something like that.
Battousai2005 04-24-04, 12:11 PM	Originally posted by kedi but as I said, if only the interested gladiators fought him, we could make a cool tryout. Plus, think of the potion of lichdom, 2ed. You coukld arrange something like that. Potion of Lichdom? Kedi, have you been drinking lately?
Magagumo 04-24-04, 12:46 PM	I would consider waving the gold requirment for a phylactery, as its sole power to to reanimate the lich. I strongly suggest implementing the lich progression on the Wizard D & D site. It's practically Core (the monster is) and ti allows the 11th lvl character to slowly progress to lichdom. Please agree with me on this one, it saves gold and functions without ECL.
kedi 04-24-04, 12:49 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Potion of Lichdom? Kedi, have you been drinking lately? I was drinking PoL lately :P Seriously, there was a such potion. Anyone could drink it. After drinking, you roll %, and you can even die instead of becoming a llich.
kattattack22 04-24-04, 03:49 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo I would consider waving the gold requirment for a phylactery, as its sole power to to reanimate the lich. I strongly suggest implementing the lich progression on the Wizard D & D site. It's practically Core (the monster is) and ti allows the 11th lvl character to slowly progress to lichdom. Please agree with me on this one, it saves gold and functions without ECL. I agree with Magagumo here.
Caterane 04-25-04, 07:05 AM	Good idea Mag. For those of you who don`t know what Mag is talking about (nothing special :D ) here`s the link to the Lich progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a) This basically allows gladiators to go lich by taking Level adjustments instead of levels. The lich has LA+4 so there are 4 levels (4 steps in power) towards a full lich by the time you took 4 levels in this "Template class" If everyone agrees we should open a poll soon.
kedi 04-25-04, 11:03 AM	Originally posted by Caterane Good idea Mag. For those of you who don`t know what Mag is talking about (nothing special :D ) here`s the link to the Lich progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a) This basically allows gladiators to go lich by taking Level adjustments instead of levels. The lich has LA+4 so there are 4 levels (4 steps in power) towards a full lich by the time you took 4 levels in this "Template class" If everyone agrees we should open a poll soon. I agree. on both.
kedi 04-25-04, 11:16 AM	Let's allow the saage progressions, for all of them in the CoCo, not just the lich.
^Rayne^ 04-25-04, 01:10 PM	I think this idea is fine but I think we should be looking more strongly at letting Psionics in first. That whole rule section has now been revised to fit COre rules which is what this whole area of the boards is about. That will go a lot farther to adding in new and cooler variety then adding one class that really isn't even a Core creation. If it is done I do believe the progression method is the best idea but I still think that Psionics should be okayed before this one gets added.
Magagumo 04-25-04, 06:55 PM	It's not a class, just a staggered level adjustment (which is Core). Just allows us (and main campaigners) to not suddenly find themselves 4 levels higher than the party.
Myrridin 04-26-04, 01:12 PM	Interesting. So if I hit 11th level as a wizard, I could start progressing in the Lich template. Cool..... :)
SnarkHunter 05-10-04, 07:09 PM	To clarify my vote in the senate , the only requirment I'd like to waive is the one for 120,000 not the level requirement. I do think the template class would be intresting.