Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kedi 04-25-04, 11:21 AM	Ok so we know that 2 guilds exist. But we need to debate their general rules. So, here, some of them: Proposed Organization Rules - Each organization must have of mission statement telling the COCO what the purpose of their organization is. - Keep organization rivalries in character. (maybe more a guideline than a rule) - Min. of 6 founding characters to become a COCO organization - Organizations found to be cheating and helping their fellow members by violating the COCO rules can be forcibly disbanded.
Caterane 04-25-04, 11:40 AM	- Every organization should have some prerequisites to enter, much like the Prestige class requirements. These requirements shouldn`t be too easy so that not everyone could enter it. It should after all be something special to be a member. - a step farther would be to grant special benefits at the cost of disadvantages. This would catapult the organization into a much more interesting position. Some examples would be: Must challenge a gladiator of a rival organization if one appears in your league. Or a member of the Celestial Forces must challenge an evil gladiator if there`s one present. These would be purely roleplaying examples. It could also be something with more impact like "you gain a +1 morale bonus to XXX vs member of rival organization". Or what about a special benefit like "+1 Dc to death attacks" for members of the Black Knives but with an equal disadvantage? It could also be regulated with the prerequisites to enter the organization. I would like to see something like that, something with a little more impact than just roleplaying. That would make organizations more than just a nice flavor thing. This could become a great new branch of the CoCo. We just have to balance it out but I think a simple small benefit could be easily balanced. An Elder Pitlord`s poll would do the trick. For that reason I want to make an important anouncement: Anouncement: Please don`t join an organization now! We are still busy making guidelines and to flesh out basic rules. There might be prerequisites coming that your gladiator doesn`t fulfill right now. For that reason I`ll close the "Celestial Forces" for now. The Black Knives will stay open so that Kedi may alter his threat but please don`t post anything there right now!! Thanks Cat
TaggIIV 04-25-04, 11:54 AM	how about there is an organization for each alignment set, similar to the following: axiomatic - lawful anarchic - chaotic good - good evil - evil neutral - neutral each organization would have alignment as a prereq, and there could be other prereqs that vary by organization. ie an evil organization prereq is to either murder someone for no reason (like assassin) or make a human sacrifice which might be a bit more disgusting since it would probably involve lots of blood and lots of pain or.. there could be an organization set depending on class
The Celestial Forces 04-25-04, 12:05 PM	Another important thing is a default account so that more than one member can alter thus administrating the various organization. Hehe, yeah, you`ll never guess who I am :D Anyway, let me introduce the burocracy of the Celestial Forces! @Tagg: I don`t like that idea because it`s too plain. Without flavor. A lawful good one wouldnt sit in the axiomatic organization next to a lawful evil dude. A more specialized approach like Kedi`s assassins guild is much more fun. But remember: before founding a new organization it has to be anounced and approved! This is to prevent organization infections and to balance it out in case we enable the prerequisites vs benefit rule.
kedi 04-25-04, 12:11 PM	Hmm, a feat requirement, or Move Silently, Hide, Disguise prequiste would make it, but giving prequistes just like the PrCs wouldn't be so good. We'll make it avaible for every 2nd level characters who'd like to join (for example Hide, MoveSilently 2 ranks, Disguise 1 rank for black knives, and perhaps stealthy too) And: "Member of the Black Knives get the following benefits and penalties: Favored Class changes to rogue. If a black knife gets levels in assassin class, she gets +1 bonus to her death attacks, but recieve -1 on melee attack checks when making death attacks. If a black knife gets levels in rogue class, she gets +1d6 on her sneak attacks, but suffer -1 on his attack checks while making sneak attacks. If a black knife gets levels in ranger class, she can choose "Celestial forces" as her favored enemy. If a black knife gets levels in monk class, she gets xxxxx....." and the guildleading would be a tough job, keeping track of the pcs, editing game mechanics.... So they count as one more fight, right? :angel:
kedi 04-25-04, 12:17 PM	Originally posted by The Celestial Forces Another important thing is a default account so that more than one member can alter thus administrating the various organization. Hehe, yeah, you`ll never guess who I am :D Anyway, let me introduce the burocracy of the Celestial Forces! @Tagg: I don`t like that idea because it`s too plain. Without flavor. A lawful good one wouldnt sit in the axiomatic organization next to a lawful evil dude. A more specialized approach like Kedi`s assassins guild is much more fun. But remember: before founding a new organization it has to be anounced and approved! This is to prevent organization infections and to balance it out in case we enable the prerequisites vs benefit rule. kattack :P well kat, what do you think of your guild's benefits / penalties? and btw, only give that ID to the 2nd in charge person.
Vilawyn 04-25-04, 12:31 PM	Originally posted by The Celestial Forces Another important thing is a default account so that more than one member can alter thus administrating the various organization. Hehe, yeah, you`ll never guess who I am :D Anyway, let me introduce the burocracy of the Celestial Forces! @Tagg: I don`t like that idea because it`s too plain. Without flavor. A lawful good one wouldnt sit in the axiomatic organization next to a lawful evil dude. A more specialized approach like Kedi`s assassins guild is much more fun. But remember: before founding a new organization it has to be anounced and approved! This is to prevent organization infections and to balance it out in case we enable the prerequisites vs benefit rule. hm that is true. *imagines a paladin hanging out with an LE guy who has his little imp cohorts trying to assassinate the paladin guy* well i have another idea. how about the organizations actually -are- prestige classes? as long as a PC is a member in a certain organization can gain levels in a PrC approved by mods for that guild. like a 5 lvl progression thing
Black Knife 04-25-04, 12:34 PM	[color=darkred]Tagg, why? WHY? Really it makes no sense. "I want to be a Loremaster. Uoh, Loremasters thread..." Instead of new guilds, try to make rules.
Caterane 04-25-04, 12:47 PM	No Kedi, it was me :P 2 ranks in hide + move silently is no prerequisite at all! A prerequisite should be something where you have to pay. Taking ranks in Hide/Move silently comes natural to every assassin so that`s no balancing factor for your mentioned benefits. Then, there are too much benefits. It should be limited to a single benefit else it might confuse everyone if he has to check every list of every organization. And don`t forget that being in an organization shouldn`t give you an advantage over someone who chose not to do so! This is very important! I`ll give you an example and comment it: "The Black Knives" Prerequisites: Alignment: any evil Feats: Stealthy Skills: 4 ranks in Hide, Move silently, and Bluff Alignment: No disadvantage since it`s already a prerequisite of the assassin. It guarantees that the character begins being evil though Feats: That`s the real payment! Spending a feat hurts. Still, it`s a most reasonable choice for an assassin and he will actually benefit from it. Skills: Hide and Move silently is no prerequisite but it should still be listed as a prereuisite to prevent fighters to enter that easily. Bluff is nearly useless but is part of a rogue`s everyday life. In reality, this is just another point where you are supposed to pay for the entry. You can also substitute it with another not so useable skill. Benefits: All members of the Black Knives assassin`s guild are highly trained in the way of the professional killer so they receive a +1 competence bonus to Dc`s when making a death attack. This is a simple benefit, easy to balance, not game-breaking but a nice boon, especially for an assassin. It also makes sure that only assassin`s participate in the organization. The next section should include "history" and "guidelines", perhaps also "Guild rules". Here you can write special things like "Must challenge someone from a rival organization" or in the case of the assassin`s a cool idea comes to mind: "Must challenge someone whom a third person/the guildmaster/another member of the guild wants to see dead". So if Kelek (lvl 10) wants Kedi (lvl 9) to assassinate Enilias (perhaps he doesn`t want Enilias to reach lvl 10) Kedi has to comply and must challenge him. Or a non-Blackknife member can approach one of the assassins and hire him to assassinate someone. Perhaps he pays with gold which would be listed under expenditures on his sheet. The option are limitless. I wouldn`t have the assassin`s oppose the Celestial Forces because assassin`s don`t fight armies. They are opportunists who work on payment. If someone wants them to kill a general of the Celestial Forces all the better but they wouldn`t openly oppose them. Neither would the Celestial Forces concern themselves too much with simple guilds but with powerful evil armies/individuals.
Mustadio[MoF] 04-25-04, 01:15 PM	How about a mercanery's guild? they could get a small money bonus or sumtin. Anyone could hire them to fight someone.
kattattack22 04-25-04, 01:40 PM	Originally posted by kedi kattack :P well kat, what do you think of your guild's benefits / penalties? I did not create the Celestial Forces post because I was asleep while the organizations thread appeared. I don't really like the idea of benefits/penalities to organizations. I liked it being something strictly for roleplay. Something more along the lines of like what Caterane has been saying of challenging people in rival organizations or being hired to assassinate someone if its an assassian guild. Also, since we use the prestige classes maybe we could use them as they were originally intended, as part of a greater organization. The Black Knives could Gladius's resident assassians guild that assassians could join (or be independent of as a freelancer.) Just a thought. I do agree with some requirements, but nothing that would bar too many low-level characters but encourage similar character types. Like how I had the Celestial Protector requirement of spellcasting of 1st level arcane or divine spells bringing the focus to spellcasters and for pure paladins and rangers they could later join, but it barred pure rogues, barbarians, and fighters. Also some roleplay requirement (probably tied to the mission statement) to bring characters with similar goals together.
kedi 04-25-04, 03:46 PM	Okay to stealthy feat request. But for skills, I am going to stick with 2 ranks in hide and move silently only. We can't expect to see a fighter to spend all of his skills just to enter. And the mercenary thing. If the black knives were evil only which I plan to make it, we could make a mercenary thing. but I doubt anyone would use the band.
Battousai2005 04-25-04, 05:42 PM	Here's a question: who can start these organizations?
Magagumo 04-25-04, 06:50 PM	@Cat To be honest, I'm really not in favor of the benefits that change how oru arena or fights work. I think it's good fun for roleplaying, bu we step quickly away from Core when we create guilds with benefits ("small" or otherwise).
kattattack22 04-25-04, 07:09 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Here's a question: who can start these organizations? Good question. I am guessing whoever wants to as long as it has enough support from other characters.
Caterane 04-26-04, 01:28 PM	Please, don`t open organizations at will or the idea will drown in the mass of guilds! The Celestial Forces, the Celestial Protectors, the Oathguards. One guild would`ve been enough to cover their tenets. I would suggest we form a fixed number of organizations which cover as many aspects possible so that every gladiator has at least one guild to join. Example for Guilds: Assassin's Guild: evil rogues and assassins The Thief's Guild: all rogues and bullies Order of the Rose: paladins, good fighters & rangers Brotherhood of the Bow: rangers, archers House of the Arcane: all arcane spellcasters The Druidhome Groove: druids, rangers, nature-related characters The Abbey: monks, martial arts warriors Harmoneoum: bards, music-related characters Mercenary's Guild: all hireable gladiators This would cover the basics and gives nearly everyone a possibility to join a guild. This could be extended with a guild for necromancers (who are not welcomed in the Mage's Guild, questionmark?), or similar ideas. Also, organizations that have been mentioned more than once - like the Celestial Forces - may have their right to exist too. Please let us keep this in check and under control else the boards will explode from the mass of Guilds and this helps no one.
kattattack22 04-26-04, 02:33 PM	@Cat- You mention approval. Whose approval? Also, creating fixed guilds that you mention may still not appeal to certain characters. I know Arkin wouldn't really like the House of the Arcane or the Brotherhood of the Rose. I am afriad that people are just going to have to propose different guilds and the guilds will live and die by their ability to recruit members.
Caterane 04-26-04, 03:00 PM	Mine? :) Seriously, it is something new and everyone would like to open a guild. We can form a council or open polls to approve the founding of a new organization. For now, I would like to regulate the founding of guilds, perhaps others want to help me in there. I just want to make sure that we get a great diversity of guilds. Oathguards, Celestial Protectors, and Celestial Forces are not that well distinguishable so we should either limit them to one organization, or alter the purposes of them slightly so that they are better to distinguish. As said, the mentioned guilds above are just the basics. There may be of course plenty of other guilds but for the moment, the basics - like an assassins guild - would be best. About your Celestial protectors: why not make something like a bodyguard guild, or a religious order? Or perhaps you could define the purpose of the guild in more detail?
Arstimis 04-26-04, 03:32 PM	I think anyone shoul be able to create any guil they want. Depending on how well the guild oes gaining members decides if it could remain one for long, rather than having a couple people decide. I think it might be kinda cool to have similar guilds, if someone chooses to make one. This could lead to some good roleplay rivalries. Guilds trying to prove they are better at what they o. Assasin guilds competing to see who is a more effective killer. Celestial guild showing who is best at elivering justce an keeping peace Also, I think it might be cool for each guil to show a represention of how good and bad its members are Something like.....fights won/fights lost
Arstimis 04-26-04, 09:17 PM	This is Battousai from arti's comp. I am going to change the oathguard to lawful as a prereque. I am also changing Kage to lawful. A reason for both will be in the RP thread. Now, Cat, how much do you mind that?
daemones 04-26-04, 09:46 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo [BTo be honest, I'm really not in favor of the benefits that change how oru arena or fights work. I think it's good fun for roleplaying, bu we step quickly away from Core when we create guilds with benefits ("small" or otherwise). [/B] I second this; I'm all for the guilds and such, but don't think they should have any in-game effect.