Discussion: 'Down with online dice!' Pitlords vs 'Obey the Rules!' Pitlords [Archive] - Wizards Community

Discussion: 'Down with online dice!' Pitlords vs 'Obey the Rules!' Pitlords [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kedi
05-29-04, 08:57 AM Originally posted by Pitlord
From next week on using the ONLINE ROLLER is mandatory!! After this anouncement, LLMadCow, MotherBast retired from being a pitlord, and I will retire as soon as possible (when I get 4 more credits).

I used normal dice, and when I didn't have, I asked for people around me say a number between 1 and x where x is the dx.

Then this rule. Cat might say that people don't trust each other on online world. But nn one has ever said a word on this topic ever.

Why is this rule necesary? IMO it is useless, as some other enforced rules (like: Character sheets and Tactics must be posted ABOVE the fight, not below). Plus, as LLMadCow clearified, "IS OUR SANDBOX, PLAY BY OUR RULES, AND BE FORCED TO ACCEPT WHATEVER NEW ONES WE MAKE UP ON THE FLY" treatment just bring people's anger. After new rules, I belive more pitlords will retire too. Before this, you have debated, always before bringing new rules. You have opened polls to run this place democratically. And after the result, no one has ever complained because it was the way it was voted.

My 2cps on this topic: People already have little time to devote for pitlording fights. They take me 15-35 minutes to read all the sheet and tactics, aproximately 7 minutes to mod one round and 10 minutes to post it. Think, if a person drinks a held potion (say cure light wounds) and can fire an arrow, and he'd hit, then the next PC uses an ability to cure himself instantly (like lay on hands) and then attaacks and hits. that's 6 rolls in one round. It takes 12 minutes just to roll dices online with a k56 modem. almost 20 minutes per round. Way too long and I can't do that, sorry, I doubt I can this week because it's final weeks of the school and I am pretty busy.

Outrageous.
kedi
05-29-04, 09:03 AM Originally posted by MotherBast
Actually, unless something has changed or I just missed a vote in the elder thread, I don't think this whole "online roller must be used" rule can be concidered offical as NOONE short of MO could make that kind of change to the rules without putting it to a vote.
I will not be using the online roller in any fight I run untill this idea goes through the process that is required before becoming offical. Should it ever actually become official, then I will have to stop pitlording, which sux, cause I enjoy it. [quoted because it's an interesting point]
kedi
05-29-04, 09:45 AM The rules do not say that Cat can change the rules as he wants. Thus, he can't create a new rule that would allow him to do so. He needs majority of the elder pitlord, and majority of pitlord if it's a tie or they want so. Thus, the new anounced rules aren't official. I will still post my fights at the top, then sheets with tactics, use normal dice and won't lose credits.

If you try to enforce us new rules, first don't violate the rules yourselves.
LLMadCow
05-29-04, 11:00 AM @To all those who care as much about this issue as I do:

I am so sorry that I let too many things interfere with my dedication to the arena that I am no longer an Elder Pitlord, and thus my voice there has been silenced, or at least muffled. As soon as I posted my protest, I sent a PM to Pitlords telling them to see my commentary, and they never responded. Despite what so many others think, I am here for the fun of gaming. I am not often testing builds to see survivabilty, as I often play characters to flair and versatility. Anyone who says the arena is just for testing builds is full of it. I can tell you there are strict guidelines as to what builds can be tested here. Try testing you rogue build. Your build may rock, but in the arena, he is toast. More rant later...

@Kedi: Try this: DOLDR - Down with OnLine Dice Roller!

or

Roll Players :censored:
freemoody
05-29-04, 11:33 AM I myself use Wizards of the Coast's online dice roller (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20040517a). But you can't link the results. The other online roller, (krinstar I think) takes way too long to use.(for me at least)

I think that using an online roller is a good idea. I've suspected that some people have skewed the results of some fights.
This will clear up any doubt. But it'll really take A LOT of extra time.
Limit
05-29-04, 11:42 AM Not to sound like an ass, but this announcement came from someone who had his friends call out random numbers from 1 to 20 to run a fight once.

Because I frequently use my weekends to travel, I don't run all my fights from home at my PC. Unfortunately if this rule sticks (and no one from CoCo is going to pony up and buy me a laptop) then I'll also have to stop Pitlording.
Magagumo
05-29-04, 12:22 PM As I stated before, I enjoy running fights, and I seem to do it faster than some, but using the online roller will only bog me down (I generally can devote 2-3 hrs to run fights during the school year, and I'm about to start a full time job next week. Add in time for sig. others, and you leave me with no choice but to honestly use my own dice).

But seriously, this announcement only states that people aren't being trusted with their pitlording, and this lack of trust will only lead to our inevitable ruin. I consider most of the people on this board as acquaintances at this point, speaking fondly of discussions or debates we've have to other people. Why disrupt this peaceful sense of community and trust?

I will contineu to run my fights with my die (two colors, one for each person so that the rolls are never mixed up). You can choose what you want to do with the results of your Ebelin fight, Cat, as his attacks and Concentrations checks will be handled manually.
kedi
05-29-04, 12:30 PM Originally posted by Limit
Not to sound like an ass, but this announcement came from someone who had his friends call out random numbers from 1 to 20 to run a fight once.

Because I frequently use my weekends to travel, I don't run all my fights from home at my PC. Unfortunately if this rule sticks (and no one from CoCo is going to pony up and buy me a laptop) then I'll also have to stop Pitlording. Stole the diea from one of caterane’s fights: He noted that he used one of his friends to tell the dice and I used my friends whenever my d10 was missing ;)
^Rayne^
05-29-04, 12:39 PM I was not aware there was an effort to make rolling online dice mandatory. I also don't entirely trust the online dice rolling machine. I've used the online one for a long time on the Real D&D boards but I believe the numbers seem to be skewed in one direction or another. It does take a lot longer to do rolls and wait for that site to caculate rolls. It already takes awhile to run fights and dice rolls are much faster when I can do them here at home. It would save me at least an hour of pitlording duty. Please don't make this change mandatory.
kedi
05-29-04, 12:43 PM @freemoody: you have a point, but we (most of us) just can’t waste more than one hour for one fight. Then elder mods could say thenr retire but already 5 pitlord mentioned retiring. Could coco stand losing more than 5 pitlords?
Captain Mutilate
05-29-04, 01:16 PM I do my fights at home, at my desk, sans computer. I print out everything I need to know, and go from there. If I need to reference something, I kick my little brother off and reference it. I don't know why you're pushing to have all rolls done online, but I'm not going with it. Period. I'll keep using my dice, thanksmuch. Adds too much time to the fight, as well as destroys my eyes more then it has to.
Market_Share
05-29-04, 01:16 PM Arg! Online dice roller?

When i pitlord (few and far between thank God), i use a storytellers fashion. I just don't have the time to sit in front of the 'puter and put all 'dem numbers down nice and neatly from the roller.

It's just a bunch of friends killing a day of the week and we do the fight. I write down what happens and keep track of the dmg, and flow chart the tactics. It's that simple.

I haven't heard one complaint from a fight I ever ran from any gladiator in all my time here. So now why am i suddenly handicapped? I was never fond of pitlording, but with this slow mac if you expect me to use the online roller, ouch!

DOLDR!

SPIKE!
Battousai2005
05-29-04, 01:21 PM I'm afraid I'll have to retire as well. Because I'm an AOL user, my service is, well, not what it should be. Also, it takes much too much time. It takes me a good 3 hours to run a single fight sometimes. I can understand the having to list statuses, but I personally have not seen a SINGLE complaint that someone might be dubbing the matches. I roll fairly, but often someone has a stroke of bad luck. If this sticks, I'll retire as well.
MotherBast
05-29-04, 02:32 PM my points are all in tavern, just wana toss my support in for this thread.
kedi
05-29-04, 02:46 PM It’s not democratic!
“Board Administration counts as running 1 fight (for Caterane, Jindl, Tellish_of_Ket, and Moherajikuyx.)”
This means they open polls, bring the pairings, keep the threads, close threads, enforce rules, etc etc. No mention of ability to make new rules. If cat was in authority to post those anouncements, it means ToK can say that” from now on only rogues are avaible to play” and we’d be enforced.
Plus, it wasn’t even a discussion. No one has ever complained aobut it but ::dang:: “Here be the new rules! Be obey!”

DM is in charge!
Behind the screen, DM is in authority to anything he wants. He never shows his PCs the rolls he make unless he wants so. He could even say the attack missed even if it was a death-hit. He can change the dices as he wishes if he believes it’s ok. In some fights, one gladiator kills another at first round when the opponent didn’t even moved. Now, is this a fair fight? The idea of this place is to test build. If he was slain at first round, how could you judge if the build is good? DM interrupts. He changes the dice and brings balance to game. I never did, but I would.

Modems are slow!
I personally have a 56k modem which is not so fast. And with 56k connection, it takes me 3 hours per match. I can’t effort that lot time. Although summer is coming and I’d be able to spend that time, but instead of working in front of my comp, I’d prefer moding the fight with print-outs in my hand, laying on my sofa and sipping my coffee. Plus, if I’d to spend 3 hours for one match no matter what, I would choose to work to make the fight best I could with 3 hours instead working with a :censored: screwed online dice.

My personal advice:
Modified take10 rule: take the half for the dice. For d20s, roll d10, and:
1: 6
2: 7
3: 8
4: 9
5: 10
6: 11
7: 12
8: 13
9: 14
0: 15
It would avoid extremes.
We need to trust each other.
Captain Mutilate
05-29-04, 03:38 PM Originally posted by kedi
DM is in charge!
Behind the screen, DM is in authority to anything he wants. He never shows his PCs the rolls he make unless he wants so. He could even say the attack missed even if it was a death-hit. He can change the dices as he wishes if he believes it’s ok. In some fights, one gladiator kills another at first round when the opponent didn’t even moved. Now, is this a fair fight? The idea of this place is to test build. If he was slain at first round, how could you judge if the build is good? DM interrupts. He changes the dice and brings balance to game. I never did, but I would.

You aren't DMs in the C0C0, you are Pitlords. You run the fights according to the rules and roll the dice honestly. You cannot change dice in the C0C0 because you are not a DM, you are a Pitlord and have no right to do so. You don't run the game, you run a single fight where it is mutually accepted and assumed that you will be fair, and honest, and unbiased.

Saying that you would is a prime example of what Cat and the other elders are trying to stamp out. I agree with what they are trying to do, but disagree with the fact that it has to affect the whole C0C0.
Caterane
05-29-04, 04:18 PM Alright.

I see even with my status as CoCo GOD :P I cannot enforce a rule that will result in so many people quiting. The Online Roller requirement is hereby withdrawn.

I still want you to know that our (Jind and my) intents were for the good of the CoCo, namely erasing biasness, and this seemed the easiest solution. We don`t make such rules to annoy you but improve the CoCo. With this in mind, you can perhaps propose a better solution since the problem is still in existance.

Cat
Magagumo
05-29-04, 04:29 PM *nod* We know you don't mean any harm, Cat. But I myself have been in positions where my decision "for the good of others," was not approved of by those I intended to help.

Perhaps investigateng the tension and secret mutterings about poor MOdding would be a good place to start?
Myrridin
05-29-04, 08:40 PM I use an online roller, but that's because I keep my dice at the place where I game in real life. I count on everyone to report the rolls for their fights, and to be honest. As for requiring something like that, it was a bad idea on the order of the short-lived change in the credits earning system.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kedi 05-29-04, 08:57 AM	Originally posted by Pitlord From next week on using the ONLINE ROLLER is mandatory!! After this anouncement, LLMadCow, MotherBast retired from being a pitlord, and I will retire as soon as possible (when I get 4 more credits). I used normal dice, and when I didn't have, I asked for people around me say a number between 1 and x where x is the dx. Then this rule. Cat might say that people don't trust each other on online world. But nn one has ever said a word on this topic ever. Why is this rule necesary? IMO it is useless, as some other enforced rules (like: Character sheets and Tactics must be posted ABOVE the fight, not below). Plus, as LLMadCow clearified, "IS OUR SANDBOX, PLAY BY OUR RULES, AND BE FORCED TO ACCEPT WHATEVER NEW ONES WE MAKE UP ON THE FLY" treatment just bring people's anger. After new rules, I belive more pitlords will retire too. Before this, you have debated, always before bringing new rules. You have opened polls to run this place democratically. And after the result, no one has ever complained because it was the way it was voted. My 2cps on this topic: People already have little time to devote for pitlording fights. They take me 15-35 minutes to read all the sheet and tactics, aproximately 7 minutes to mod one round and 10 minutes to post it. Think, if a person drinks a held potion (say cure light wounds) and can fire an arrow, and he'd hit, then the next PC uses an ability to cure himself instantly (like lay on hands) and then attaacks and hits. that's 6 rolls in one round. It takes 12 minutes just to roll dices online with a k56 modem. almost 20 minutes per round. Way too long and I can't do that, sorry, I doubt I can this week because it's final weeks of the school and I am pretty busy. Outrageous.
kedi 05-29-04, 09:03 AM	Originally posted by MotherBast Actually, unless something has changed or I just missed a vote in the elder thread, I don't think this whole "online roller must be used" rule can be concidered offical as NOONE short of MO could make that kind of change to the rules without putting it to a vote. I will not be using the online roller in any fight I run untill this idea goes through the process that is required before becoming offical. Should it ever actually become official, then I will have to stop pitlording, which sux, cause I enjoy it. [quoted because it's an interesting point]
kedi 05-29-04, 09:45 AM	The rules do not say that Cat can change the rules as he wants. Thus, he can't create a new rule that would allow him to do so. He needs majority of the elder pitlord, and majority of pitlord if it's a tie or they want so. Thus, the new anounced rules aren't official. I will still post my fights at the top, then sheets with tactics, use normal dice and won't lose credits. If you try to enforce us new rules, first don't violate the rules yourselves.
LLMadCow 05-29-04, 11:00 AM	@To all those who care as much about this issue as I do: I am so sorry that I let too many things interfere with my dedication to the arena that I am no longer an Elder Pitlord, and thus my voice there has been silenced, or at least muffled. As soon as I posted my protest, I sent a PM to Pitlords telling them to see my commentary, and they never responded. Despite what so many others think, I am here for the fun of gaming. I am not often testing builds to see survivabilty, as I often play characters to flair and versatility. Anyone who says the arena is just for testing builds is full of it. I can tell you there are strict guidelines as to what builds can be tested here. Try testing you rogue build. Your build may rock, but in the arena, he is toast. More rant later... @Kedi: Try this: DOLDR - Down with OnLine Dice Roller! or Roll Players :censored:
freemoody 05-29-04, 11:33 AM	I myself use Wizards of the Coast's online dice roller (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20040517a). But you can't link the results. The other online roller, (krinstar I think) takes way too long to use.(for me at least) I think that using an online roller is a good idea. I've suspected that some people have skewed the results of some fights. This will clear up any doubt. But it'll really take A LOT of extra time.
Limit 05-29-04, 11:42 AM	Not to sound like an ass, but this announcement came from someone who had his friends call out random numbers from 1 to 20 to run a fight once. Because I frequently use my weekends to travel, I don't run all my fights from home at my PC. Unfortunately if this rule sticks (and no one from CoCo is going to pony up and buy me a laptop) then I'll also have to stop Pitlording.
Magagumo 05-29-04, 12:22 PM	As I stated before, I enjoy running fights, and I seem to do it faster than some, but using the online roller will only bog me down (I generally can devote 2-3 hrs to run fights during the school year, and I'm about to start a full time job next week. Add in time for sig. others, and you leave me with no choice but to honestly use my own dice). But seriously, this announcement only states that people aren't being trusted with their pitlording, and this lack of trust will only lead to our inevitable ruin. I consider most of the people on this board as acquaintances at this point, speaking fondly of discussions or debates we've have to other people. Why disrupt this peaceful sense of community and trust? I will contineu to run my fights with my die (two colors, one for each person so that the rolls are never mixed up). You can choose what you want to do with the results of your Ebelin fight, Cat, as his attacks and Concentrations checks will be handled manually.
kedi 05-29-04, 12:30 PM	Originally posted by Limit Not to sound like an ass, but this announcement came from someone who had his friends call out random numbers from 1 to 20 to run a fight once. Because I frequently use my weekends to travel, I don't run all my fights from home at my PC. Unfortunately if this rule sticks (and no one from CoCo is going to pony up and buy me a laptop) then I'll also have to stop Pitlording. Stole the diea from one of caterane’s fights: He noted that he used one of his friends to tell the dice and I used my friends whenever my d10 was missing ;)
^Rayne^ 05-29-04, 12:39 PM	I was not aware there was an effort to make rolling online dice mandatory. I also don't entirely trust the online dice rolling machine. I've used the online one for a long time on the Real D&D boards but I believe the numbers seem to be skewed in one direction or another. It does take a lot longer to do rolls and wait for that site to caculate rolls. It already takes awhile to run fights and dice rolls are much faster when I can do them here at home. It would save me at least an hour of pitlording duty. Please don't make this change mandatory.
kedi 05-29-04, 12:43 PM	@freemoody: you have a point, but we (most of us) just can’t waste more than one hour for one fight. Then elder mods could say thenr retire but already 5 pitlord mentioned retiring. Could coco stand losing more than 5 pitlords?
Captain Mutilate 05-29-04, 01:16 PM	I do my fights at home, at my desk, sans computer. I print out everything I need to know, and go from there. If I need to reference something, I kick my little brother off and reference it. I don't know why you're pushing to have all rolls done online, but I'm not going with it. Period. I'll keep using my dice, thanksmuch. Adds too much time to the fight, as well as destroys my eyes more then it has to.
Market_Share 05-29-04, 01:16 PM	Arg! Online dice roller? When i pitlord (few and far between thank God), i use a storytellers fashion. I just don't have the time to sit in front of the 'puter and put all 'dem numbers down nice and neatly from the roller. It's just a bunch of friends killing a day of the week and we do the fight. I write down what happens and keep track of the dmg, and flow chart the tactics. It's that simple. I haven't heard one complaint from a fight I ever ran from any gladiator in all my time here. So now why am i suddenly handicapped? I was never fond of pitlording, but with this slow mac if you expect me to use the online roller, ouch! DOLDR! SPIKE!
Battousai2005 05-29-04, 01:21 PM	I'm afraid I'll have to retire as well. Because I'm an AOL user, my service is, well, not what it should be. Also, it takes much too much time. It takes me a good 3 hours to run a single fight sometimes. I can understand the having to list statuses, but I personally have not seen a SINGLE complaint that someone might be dubbing the matches. I roll fairly, but often someone has a stroke of bad luck. If this sticks, I'll retire as well.
MotherBast 05-29-04, 02:32 PM	my points are all in tavern, just wana toss my support in for this thread.
kedi 05-29-04, 02:46 PM	It’s not democratic! “Board Administration counts as running 1 fight (for Caterane, Jindl, Tellish_of_Ket, and Moherajikuyx.)” This means they open polls, bring the pairings, keep the threads, close threads, enforce rules, etc etc. No mention of ability to make new rules. If cat was in authority to post those anouncements, it means ToK can say that” from now on only rogues are avaible to play” and we’d be enforced. Plus, it wasn’t even a discussion. No one has ever complained aobut it but ::dang:: “Here be the new rules! Be obey!” DM is in charge! Behind the screen, DM is in authority to anything he wants. He never shows his PCs the rolls he make unless he wants so. He could even say the attack missed even if it was a death-hit. He can change the dices as he wishes if he believes it’s ok. In some fights, one gladiator kills another at first round when the opponent didn’t even moved. Now, is this a fair fight? The idea of this place is to test build. If he was slain at first round, how could you judge if the build is good? DM interrupts. He changes the dice and brings balance to game. I never did, but I would. Modems are slow! I personally have a 56k modem which is not so fast. And with 56k connection, it takes me 3 hours per match. I can’t effort that lot time. Although summer is coming and I’d be able to spend that time, but instead of working in front of my comp, I’d prefer moding the fight with print-outs in my hand, laying on my sofa and sipping my coffee. Plus, if I’d to spend 3 hours for one match no matter what, I would choose to work to make the fight best I could with 3 hours instead working with a :censored: screwed online dice. My personal advice: Modified take10 rule: take the half for the dice. For d20s, roll d10, and: 1: 6 2: 7 3: 8 4: 9 5: 10 6: 11 7: 12 8: 13 9: 14 0: 15 It would avoid extremes. We need to trust each other.
Captain Mutilate 05-29-04, 03:38 PM	Originally posted by kedi DM is in charge! Behind the screen, DM is in authority to anything he wants. He never shows his PCs the rolls he make unless he wants so. He could even say the attack missed even if it was a death-hit. He can change the dices as he wishes if he believes it’s ok. In some fights, one gladiator kills another at first round when the opponent didn’t even moved. Now, is this a fair fight? The idea of this place is to test build. If he was slain at first round, how could you judge if the build is good? DM interrupts. He changes the dice and brings balance to game. I never did, but I would. You aren't DMs in the C0C0, you are Pitlords. You run the fights according to the rules and roll the dice honestly. You cannot change dice in the C0C0 because you are not a DM, you are a Pitlord and have no right to do so. You don't run the game, you run a single fight where it is mutually accepted and assumed that you will be fair, and honest, and unbiased. Saying that you would is a prime example of what Cat and the other elders are trying to stamp out. I agree with what they are trying to do, but disagree with the fact that it has to affect the whole C0C0.
Caterane 05-29-04, 04:18 PM	Alright. I see even with my status as CoCo GOD :P I cannot enforce a rule that will result in so many people quiting. The Online Roller requirement is hereby withdrawn. I still want you to know that our (Jind and my) intents were for the good of the CoCo, namely erasing biasness, and this seemed the easiest solution. We don`t make such rules to annoy you but improve the CoCo. With this in mind, you can perhaps propose a better solution since the problem is still in existance. Cat
Magagumo 05-29-04, 04:29 PM	nod We know you don't mean any harm, Cat. But I myself have been in positions where my decision "for the good of others," was not approved of by those I intended to help. Perhaps investigateng the tension and secret mutterings about poor MOdding would be a good place to start?
Myrridin 05-29-04, 08:40 PM	I use an online roller, but that's because I keep my dice at the place where I game in real life. I count on everyone to report the rolls for their fights, and to be honest. As for requiring something like that, it was a bad idea on the order of the short-lived change in the credits earning system.