Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caterane 11-08-05, 03:09 AM	This Poll is for Core Coliseum Elders only! - Elders are Pittbull, LLMadCow, Tellish of Ket, Huan, and King Uther - The Poll is about the recent discussion incited by MadCow and Snommelp who claim that you can buy a Masterwork Musical Instrument to get a +2 bonus to Singing, Acting, Dancing, and similar perform skills. Examples for such instruments were Pavarotti Lung Transplants, Bullhorns, Comedy Kits, Masterwork Podiums, Amplifiers, or Dance Shoes. The other side of the argument claims that these skills cannot make use of an instrument. On the one hand, there are clearly no instruments to boost singing, and secondly, the mentioned skills already have an advantage because they need no hands to be occupied, unlike playing the guitar or any other instrument. Although I've already stated my opinion, I still want to make it an official Elder Poll so that no one can say I intended to ruin a character or spoil the fun ;) Elders, this poll will be closed automatically in 2 days from now on (thursday). If you haven't voted by then, you abstain. On the other hand it would be better to think about it again before you vote. PS: Option 3 is "Abstain" :D
King Uther 11-08-05, 03:17 AM	I voted yes and I'll tell you why: 1. Good dancing shoes help. As a DDR champion, I must say that choice of shoes plays an important roles when you are moving fast. If you don't have good support, you could hurt yourself, and be less able to perform stunts on your hands and what not. 2. I was an All-State choir member in High School. It's hard to say where a +2 would come from in helping the voice, but then I realized it's easy. Accompaniment. Good musical background can help a voice stand out. 3. Balance. How fair is it to disallow singers and dancers the same privelege as band geeks.
Caterane 11-08-05, 03:20 AM	Well, yes, there are surely ways to get a bonus but that's not the point. We're talking about "Musical Instruments" and neither "Dance Shoes" nor "Background Singing" is one. And the PHB clearly says "Musical Instruments", and not a wide-ranged "Perform Tools".
Guildmaster (EHTC) 11-08-05, 03:25 AM	Well, my first inclination was to argue bonuses for dancing but not others. I mean, how can you judge a singing voice or powerful speaking ability? A simple instrument would not help those things, but I see your point. I still keep my vote, as I think it keeps more balance.
Tellish_of_Ket 11-08-05, 04:32 AM	Natives used birch-bark wrapped in a cone-shaped manner to increase the distance and audibility for calling moose. I can't see why a singer couldn't have some sort of "bullhorn" to gain their +2. -ToK
Pittbull 11-08-05, 05:27 AM	I have a masterwork performinstrument for singers: a tuning fork. Shoes for step-dance are percussion-instruments too. Alltogether I'll vote for yes, there are such items. We allready restricted the usage of the bard's fascinate-ability, so I think, we can let them go with that.
Caterane 11-08-05, 05:57 AM	Hehe, my Elders are pretty rebelious lately ;) Ok, Sing on then, Bards. But if I ever see Pavarotti's Lung Implants... :D
Snommelp 11-08-05, 10:25 AM	I have a masterwork performinstrument for singers: a tuning fork. Shoes for step-dance are percussion-instruments too. Alltogether I'll vote for yes, there are such items. We allready restricted the usage of the bard's fascinate-ability, so I think, we can let them go with that. Really? What's the restriction? Just plain no using fascinate in the arena, because being in the arena constitutes a potential threat? I'm not arguing, I just need to know this in case it ever comes up with my bard or if I pitlord a bard.
Macbrea 11-08-05, 10:44 AM	May I suggest adding Masterwork dancing shoes (+2 Perform (dance) 52gp) and Masterwork Texts (+2 Perform (oration, acting, comedy) 55gp) and Masterwork Tuning fork (+2 Perform (sing) 52gp). If you choose to allow these items. The reason is the perform skill lists the acceptable nine categories of perform skill.
Huan 11-08-05, 11:05 AM	Well, it seems this whole issue was introduced and concluded before I even woke up this morning ....
Snommelp 11-08-05, 12:04 PM	May I suggest adding Masterwork dancing shoes (+2 Perform (dance) 52gp) and Masterwork Texts (+2 Perform (oration, acting, comedy) 55gp) and Masterwork Tuning fork (+2 Perform (sing) 52gp). If you choose to allow these items. The reason is the perform skill lists the acceptable nine categories of perform skill. It would have to be 100 gp. That's the price of the other MW instruments. They also weigh 3 pounds, regardless of what they are called.
NiQil 11-08-05, 04:37 PM	Really? What's the restriction? Just plain no using fascinate in the arena, because being in the arena constitutes a potential threat? I'm not arguing, I just need to know this in case it ever comes up with my bard or if I pitlord a bard. Roughly, yes...this is correct...I want to say it is in the houserules section of the Rules thread, but I could be mistaken.
Pittbull 11-08-05, 05:09 PM	@Snommelp: Here is the quote! Spell/Effect: Fascinate Decision: Fascinate cannot be used at all in the arena. For the purpose of Quests and Campaigns, combat is defined as "Initiative has been rolled".
Snommelp 11-08-05, 05:21 PM	Thanks, Pittbull. That's very helpful, especially the line about quests and campaigns. And of course thank you to NiQil as well.
LLMadCow 11-08-05, 11:57 PM	Examples for such instruments were Pavarotti Lung Transplants, Bullhorns, Comedy Kits, Masterwork Podiums, Amplifiers, or Dance Shoes. I never wanted to call everything an instrument, I just said it balancesz out the skills. I am surprised that you neglected to mention my two favorites: Tighty-Whiteys of the Castrati and Showercap of Singing. Two execllent choices. LLMC
Caterane 11-09-05, 05:17 AM	@Sindorin: You won't give you, will you? ;)
Sindorin 11-09-05, 10:32 AM	hehe :cool: