| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| SnarkHunter09-29-04, 07:49 PM | I am Teh firstist postar! Also tactics for Evram sent to Cat. |
| Sindorin09-29-04, 07:58 PM | lol oh my... i guess I had better write mine then :). |
| Druid Roxors09-29-04, 08:28 PM | Curse you SNARK!!! My fights compilation will be on the 3rd post! :mad: :P Fights of the week Listings (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2700233&postcount=3): - Ragnarr Vs Sonora (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4520292&postcount=971) - Angosh Vs Zedarak (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4525013&postcount=972&origin=) |
| Pittbull09-30-04, 03:24 AM | YEAH! Number 4! Here are my tactics for Angosh against Zederak:Just kidding, of course they are sent via E-mail to you!------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thank you! |
| kedi09-30-04, 03:25 AM | @ Zerone & Aramil: Please send your tactics to kedi98 (at) gmail.com, not o hotmail! (Or use PM, which is a lot better :)) @ Shadow: Please change my mail adress link in pitlords post to kedi98 (at) gmail.com Thanks in Advance :) PS: Won't I run LLMadCow's & Boldrift's match this week? EDIT: :rofl: @ Aramil! Another wizard!!! :) |
| Sindorin09-30-04, 08:27 AM | yeah, actually that wizard is a REmatch... Jin Szen fought Ernie at their last level... I know because I pitlorded that fight... :confused: |
| Jindl09-30-04, 09:38 AM | yeah, actually that wizard is a REmatch... Jin Szen fought Ernie at their last level... I know because I pitlorded that fight... :confused: Unfortunately, no other characters are active at Lvl 4. Since both Jin Szen and Ernie have fought another opponent since their last meeting, the rematch could be okay. However, if the players want to dissolve the match, they can PM/email WizO_Shadow about it. -Jindl |
| Beldin09-30-04, 10:54 AM | @Caterane: tactics have been sent |
| Sindorin09-30-04, 12:43 PM | Tactics for Tair Malek sent to Caterane... Can it be done? Can Evram be defeated? We'll see... probably not though. :rolleyes: |
| Kaigan09-30-04, 02:20 PM | tactics sent to cat via email |
| Aramil Dunskar09-30-04, 03:18 PM | *Sigh* Another pairing another wizard to fight.... what can I do? Oh well I'll get my tatics to ya Kedi via PM when I can. -AD Edit: Tatics have been sent to Kedi via PM. |
| Zerone09-30-04, 05:04 PM | @ Kedi Tactics sent via PM for Jin Szen. @ Druid Roxors & Caterane: We need to set up a time on Sat. or Sun. I am rather available, so you 2 figure out a time and I'll be able to make it. DR, I'll send you The Metatron's tactics tonight or early tomorrow morning... Have to shower and run to eat dinner with the Danes!!! Zerone |
| Druid Roxors09-30-04, 05:08 PM | @ Druid Roxors & Caterane: We need to set up a time on Sat. or Sun. I am rather available, so you 2 figure out a time and I'll be able to make it. DR, I'll send you The Metatron's tactics tonight or early tomorrow morning... Have to shower and run to eat dinner with the Danes!!! Zerone We were thinking 10 AM Sunday, are you available? Dinner with the (great) Danes? :P |
| Zerone09-30-04, 05:20 PM | Perfect, 10 for us and 17.00 (5 pm) for him, right? Oops, I meant Danish, were having donoughts and coffee... :whatsthis :turkey: Zerone |
| Druid Roxors09-30-04, 05:24 PM | Perfect, 10 for us and 17.00 (5 pm) for him, right?Yep Oops, I meant Danish, were having donoughts and coffee... :whatsthis ;) |
| Caterane09-30-04, 09:54 PM | Tactics for Archangel Ixenthor and Zedarak sent! Tactics received for Eiletha, Rhaegar, Evram, and Tair. |
| SnarkHunter09-30-04, 11:51 PM | Pre-emptively sent tactics to Zerone for Bilo. |
| kedi10-01-04, 10:37 AM | Tactics recieved. Match will be up in a few hours. |
| Beldin10-01-04, 03:21 PM | @Zerone: tactics have been sent |
| Jindl10-01-04, 04:52 PM | @WizO_Shadow - Tactics for the Shapeshifting Master of Darkness have been PM'd to you !! -Jindl |
| Sindorin10-01-04, 07:28 PM | Ragnarr vs. Sonora is posted. |
| MysticMonk200510-02-04, 02:45 PM | Tactics PM'd for Drahk vs Ixenethor |
| Pittbull10-02-04, 07:41 PM | Thanks Druid for modding the fight. I expected the outcome. There's been no mistakes, good work. This fight shows, in my opinion, that there are not only druids or casters who outbalance the sytem, there are psions too. Or, are fighters to weak for the CoCo? Egowhip and touchsight have been pretty devasting to Angosh, but I expected this. Shall I give up featuring Angosh? - No of course not, he'll get his bump and will present his new ally MinniME next week. Actually he's only one fight shy of Ritos "Most fights in the arena!"-record, if there is anybody who dares to face him - you know where you can find him. The same precedure as every weekend....... The people shout:"ANGOSH,ANGOSH,ANGOSH,.....!" |
| Ashenai10-02-04, 07:57 PM | Currently, the more a class relies on "daily expendable resources", the more powerful it is in the CoCo, since there is only one fight every day. MO's proposal was meant to fix this problem (among others). Pure casters are overpowered, and it's really no surprise... they weren't ever meant to be able to blow their entire complement of spells (or power points) against a single enemy. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. This has to be fixed. |
| Caterane10-02-04, 11:47 PM | I fully agree. I play the most casters in the Arena and I say casters are overpowered for the exact reason Ashenai just said, and others had said before. Perhaps over time, the board might be convinced that it will not only balance the CoCo but also make it more useful in "testing your build". In a campaign you can´t blow out all your spells, half of them quickened, in one fight thus the current CoCo-setting distorts the test. @Pittbull: You were at 10 hp so even without the Ego whips it would´ve been difficult. But don´t retire Angosh! It´s only a few more levels to the top!! @Druid: Great fight. Snark, mark a (+) on Druid's record! |
| kedi10-03-04, 12:48 AM | LOL, what can we do about it? Seriously, there seems no option else than limiting the spell useage which is ridiculous. |
| Sindorin10-03-04, 12:54 AM | I don't understand the debate at all. First we incorporate psionics which is rather broken in itself, and then try to balance casters. kind of a big oxymoron if you ask me. |
| Caterane10-03-04, 02:15 AM | Psionics wouldn´t be broken if the psions had to household with their powerpoints. Same with casters. Not the class is broken, the CoCo setting is. |
| Druid Roxors10-03-04, 02:24 AM | Just take my suggestion. 2/3 of caster's spells or powerpoints (round up) per fight. No taking notes on how many fights per day, time of the day, No complications, no hazzles. @ Cat/Angosh: Thanks for the complement :) |
| Beldin10-03-04, 05:45 AM | The same precedure as every weekend....... "ANGOSH,ANGOSH,ANGOSH,.....!" |
| Pittbull10-03-04, 06:22 AM | Yeah!!! |
| Ashenai10-03-04, 11:10 AM | I don't think psionics are broken. In the Evram-Bubo fight I pitlorded, Evram won... with 9 power points left. 9! If he had had to fight again without regaining power points, he wouldn't have had a chance. I agree that MO's proposal is probably too complex as it is. Also, I'm starting to get confused with all the various proposals and proposal modifications flying around, and I think others are too. Since if this change passes, it's going to be one of the most important rules changes in the history of the CoCo, I think it deserves its own thread, with all the ideas in order. Hang on a sec... |
| SnarkHunter10-03-04, 07:58 PM | Yes...I don't think Psionics are broken either...http://www.wizards.com/community/images/boards/smilies/shiftyeyes2.gif yes... Anywho, Cat, in thier latest showing there were a few small errors but nothing gamebreaking. The Talented feat only negates overchannel damage up to 3rd level powers. So that would be 3d8 damage from the Psionic dominate (although I have a thought about that now. I could manifest a 2 point vigor power before the dominate every day to absorb the overchannel damage. But thats neither here nor there) and another 3d8 from the overchannel. Also I thought that if one rolled a nat 20 or 1 on a grapple you'd auto win or lose, but presumably Tair did not. All together a good show. Now to put Evram to bed for a few more weeks :(. |
| Magagumo10-03-04, 08:24 PM | Question on Aku v. Peter... why did the Archon deal x3 damage on a x2 weapon? :) I think the exta 12 damage (on avg) was enough to knock him over... so would he still be up and going Round 6? |
| Caterane10-03-04, 11:17 PM | http://members.cox.net/wyluli/26.JPG :rofl: :ayyyy!: |
| Zerone10-04-04, 12:41 AM | Prof. Vandaeris Dre'Dandrahl vs. Corinthus Avius is posted here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4533872&postcount=976). *•. Zerone Many thanks to Druid Roxors for his patience!!! :bow: |
| WizO_Shadow10-04-04, 12:52 AM | Question on Aku v. Peter... why did the Archon deal x3 damage on a x2 weapon? :) I think the exta 12 damage (on avg) was enough to knock him over... so would he still be up and going Round 6? Good question, researching now. Hubby ran Peter while I ran Aku in take 2. (take 1 had issues) Speaking of which, why Peter didn't summon the 1d3 Bralani first round contingencied is that the contingency spell is 1/3rd caster level which is 5... so he could do summon monster 5 as the highest, not 7th. That's why we had to rerun. Shadow [edit] well, crap. Looks like the fight might be going longer. Crap just because that I was so exact I hoped I got it right. :-D |
| Caterane10-04-04, 12:54 AM | No further complains. Thanks for running the fight Zerone! |
| Zerone10-04-04, 12:59 AM | I'll look into it, but can you Yahoo chat now? If so we could talk there... I've made a few modifications myself, so if you'll just look at it again, we'll get out of here... |
| Ashenai10-04-04, 02:06 AM | EDIT: Well, ugh. I think I should have waited a few hours with my list. :( I'll leave it up for now, in case the fight gets re-revised. EDIT 2: On second thought, no I won't. I have it saved, in the unlikely event that it becomes relevant again. |
| Druid Roxors10-04-04, 02:28 AM | Althought the fight was modified ill explain some. Round 1: Corinthus can't use his Rod of Silence while Wildshaped (this is even included in his tactics), so he can't cast his Quickened Obscuring Mist. This has no real bearing on the fight, since the Prof's Fireball dissipated the mist in any case.Change to Elemental then continue with tactics. Round 1: Since the Enervation took off 4 levels, Corinthus lost all 3 of his level 8 spells, and one of his level 7 spells. You didn't say which level 7 spell he lost, but it doesn't matter; you allowed him to use all four of his memorized level 7 spells (he cast both Fire Seeds and the True Sight, and converted his Heal to a Summon Nature's Ally 7). He should not have been allowed to cast one of those; whichever spell he lost would have had a profound effect on the battle (quite apart from all the other issues).False, I didnt cast all my level 7 spells. See I spend a scroll of truesight? Round 2: Corinthus can't cast Quickened Faerie Fire, because of the silence. This is important; Corinthus has two choices here. Either Corinthus dimdoors to full cover from both the illusion and the Prof (since he can't yet tell which is which), in which case he can't cast Faerie Fire this round, or he dimdoors to full cover from one image (randomly selected) and Faerie Fires the other one.Rod, again, in crysmal form. Round 2: Faerie Fire does not work on a Programmed Illusion, since it's not an object or creature. Assuming he somehow managed to cast Faerie Fire targeting it, Corinthus would still realize that it's the illusion, but the illusion would still be visually the same as the Professor. This may or may not be awkward for the summons, depending on circumstances.You interact with it, which is why I get a save. Also, if it looks as if hit by a fireball, wouldnt it look as if striked by a Faerie fire? Round 3: Where, exactly, did the Prof erect his Resilient Sphere? Around himself, I'm assuming. In that case, though, he can't summon an Avoral outside the Sphere (it blocks line of effect). Which means the Avoral will need to use an action to dimdoor outside the sphere. Also, when and how did the Prof exit the Sphere? I see no sign of him exiting or using an action to dismiss the Sphere, and yet he's apparently outside it in Round 12.I was under the impression he Dimension Doored Round 4: Summoning the Avoral is a full-round spell, meaning it doesn't get to act in round 4. (I always mess this up, too).Right Since Corinthus used his Rod of Silence in Round 11, he must have reverted back into halfling shape at some point. When? It takes a standard action to do that.And I believe crysmal form can hold stuff in its hands. Cat laughed because he can see the picture! What's so funny? Rounds 5 and 6: Because of the Enervation, Corinthus' acorn grenades are only 16d6.The actual damge is correct. Round 12: The berries did a total of 109 damage, not 110. Also, holly berries don't do holy damage (though they might do holly damage... ugh, sorry :P), so that's 109 fire damage.Sacred (a divine feat) allows them to. Check again. Round 12: The acorn grenades can only be hurled up to 100 feet. Why was the Professor within 100 feet? Exact locations would have helped here...Yeah, but dont complicate it too much. Round 12: I absolutely do not understand your damage math here. How did you get 114 total damage dealt? Why did the elemental take 102 damage?I double checked with him every time. with the holy damage modification and 16d6+16 damage on granades - 120 fire damage and (defeating fire protection) -30 on the last granade. The Prof didn't get to make Listen checks to hear Corinthus casting spells. Don't forget that if he hears a spell cast, his 29 Spellcraft allows him to auto-identify what it is. This is most important for Freedom of Movement; if the Prof knew that Corinthus had FoM up, he obviously would have cast something a tad more useful than Solid Fog.Yeah... -10 for "behind a wall" and distance. Could have spotted though. (So would have corinthus, his exact location with his huge check) Round 13: Corinthus' Flamestrike: you apparently forgot about the Prof's Resist Energy. Not forgotten. The fight changed. But I just wanted to clarify that this fight was not that buggy. |
| Ashenai10-04-04, 02:49 AM | Huh... seems like my list was preserved for posterity anyway. Oh well. Althought the fight was modified ill explain some. Change to Elemental then continue with tactics. Sure. Like I said, no bearing on the fight, just a heads-up. False, I didnt cast all my level 7 spells. See I spend a scroll of truesight? Sure, that would have worked. You didn't, though; at least, the end-of-fight summary said "Corinthus used nothing". Rod, again, in crysmal form. *blinkblink* Crysmals can use items? Where do you get this from? You interact with it, which is why I get a save. That's exactly what I said. Also, if it looks as if hit by a fireball, wouldnt it look as if striked by a Faerie fire? I guess that depends on the precise instructions given to it by the Prof. You might be right. I was under the impression he Dimension Doored He most definitely did not. And I believe crysmal form can hold stuff in its hands. Cat laughed because he can see the picture! What's so funny? Um... dude. What hands? Based on the picture, a Triceratops would probably be better at handling items than a Crysmal. The actual damge is correct. I can't see the original fight anymore, but I'll take your word for it. Sacred (a divine feat) allows them to. Check again. Yup, my bad. Yeah, but dont complicate it too much. 'Kay. I double checked with him every time. with the holy damage modification and 16d6+16 damage on granades - 120 fire damage and (defeating fire protection) -30 on the last granade. Again, I can't see the original fight anymore, so I won't debate this point. Yeah... -10 for "behind a wall" and distance. Even if I accept that (the "behind a wall" thing is certainly a bit fishy), that still gives the Prof a chance of hearing it up to 220 feet away. Since--apparently--he was within 100 feet, he would have heard it with a roll of 8 or better. Not forgotten. While I didn't debate the others, I happen to remember the exact numbers for this one: 1) The Avoral laid on hands for 66 hps. 2) The Flamestrike did (53*1.5 = 79) damage. The Prof died. The Resist Energy was forgotten. The fight changed. But I just wanted to clarify that this fight was not that buggy. I maintain that it had quite a few problems. I'm not trying to make Zerone look bad here; I've pitlorded high-level fights that were just as bad (before the rerun). I'm just trying to show that I'm not an idiot. ;) |
| Zerone10-04-04, 03:28 AM | Attn. Ashenai: If you look at the copy that you have you will notice that there are locations when needed: Round 10 Vandaeris: Globe of Invulnerability (-22x, +21y), facing the direction of the Burrow Hole. Avoral: Protection from Evil Circle. Corinthus: Truesight Vandaeris: 121/121 Avoral: 66/66 Corinthus: 90/90 Round 11 Vandaeris: Prepares Empowered Lightning Bolt to be cast on sight. Avoral: Goes to the other side of the Burrow Hole, readied action Empowered Magic Missile. Corinthus: Silent Summon Nature's Ally VII (1d3 Huge Fire Elementals) and moves to (-8x, +20y). Attn. Everyone: I know that my performance is not up to a satisfactory level. I have moderated 5 fights, this one makes 6, I think; I know that this is not an excuse. Nor is the fact that I was in over my head. If anyone wants to, we could go over the points that Ashenai and Druid Roxors pointed out and discuss them. I know that this fight was missing a lot of the details, but the fight only concerns the 3 people involved. As long as they are happy with the outcome, that is what matters. However, I am unhappy with my lack of polished performance, everyone knows that I don't even know all the rules changes from 3.0 to 3.5 just by helping me out on the forums. Please, shape me and others in the future into something you want to see, like the 'Adonis' of the CoCo, and not something that you do not want to see, a CoCo'er who doesn't want to moderate fights for fear of making mistakes or being controlled by a 'superior'. I've worked hard to correct the mistakes that I've made on the 2 fights I've had with mistakes (what a sentence!). Unfortunately, that is how I am going to learn the most, by mistakes. I still have a copy of the original fight. If you want, I'll forward it to you and we can talk about it (still an open invitation to anyone). I'm not saying 'leave me alone' or 'pointing to anything/anyone' specific... I have no reason to. It's just that some people can't take constructive critisism (or spell it) and/or are afraid of throwing a wrench in the system to challenge things, and will bow down to the Elder members of the CoCo... So we need to be careful in how we act. No this doesn't apply to everyone, as you won't scare me away, but I know that I could scare people away because I have a strong personality, and speak my mind. And that doesn't always sit well with people. But ask Caterane about me implementing rules not used in the CoCo against him that I think should be used... <cough> Knowledge: The Planes... <cough>, and you'll see what I mean. What am I saying? I don't know anymore... :embarrass but let's be friends! :D *•. Zerone |
| Ashenai10-04-04, 03:50 AM | :OMG! I dunno about Cat, but if this is your honest reaction to my post, then I humbly apologize. I absolutely did not mean to belittle you, or make you feel sick of the CoCo. Quite the opposite. When I post a fight critique (or a character violation, or whatever), I always do so hoping that I have helped make the CoCo a little more error-free, and that I've helped someone improve their pitlording a little. I am not immune to making mistakes. Nor is Cat. Nor are you. Nor is anyone. If you felt that I was somehow trying to humiliate you by pointing out the mistakes in your fight (as I saw them), I am deeply sorry. In the future, I will continue to point out mistakes wherever I find them. I'm quite good at finding mistakes; thus, this is part of my contribution to the CoCo. If you have any suggestions as to how I can point out mistakes without seeming to be overbearing or patronizing, though, I'd love to hear them. I would be horrified to know that I was the cause of someone leaving the CoCo. And finally, I certainly hope that nobody thinks that my status as Elder somehow allows me to bully people around. I was voted into the Council because people felt I could do a good job of helping the CoCo. If I'm not helping the CoCo, I'm not a good Elder. I've read your posts, Zerone, and I think you have definite potential. Your arguments are intelligent and well put, and I think you really do belong here. Your fights are "up to a satisfactory level"; if they weren't, you wouldn't have been given the highest-level fight to pitlord! Apparently, I've done you wrong. I didn't mean to. Please accept my apologies. And, as you said, let's be friends. :D |
| Sindorin10-04-04, 08:50 AM | Zerone It happens to everyone. It's normal. Right before you came here I had the same thing happen. Also, yeah, your fights are well done considering how long you've been here. |
| Zerone10-04-04, 10:01 AM | Attn Everyone: :D Well, I knew that posting while I was that tired would be a bad idea... :rolleyes: Believe me! My intentions were good!!! But as I reread it, I see where you are comming from. The only thing that I wish to point out is that the second part was directed as 'Attn. Everyone', so please, no one should feel singled out or pointed to. I was pointing to myself as well, and trying not to have my words sound as they did. :rolleyes: As for the 'Attn. Ashenai part, I was pointing out that I did do the 'missing work', much like what you siad hear... I maintain that it had quite a few problems. I've pitlorded high-level fights that were just as bad (before the rerun). I'm just trying to show that I'm not an idiot. I also realize that many of the CoCo members are not native English speakers, and that is another barrier that we must face. I thank everyone for speaking English here on the CoCo! I am a firm believer that non-native English speaking people have a better grasp of the English language than most native English speaking people! You have my gratitude. I am a perfectionist, and as is obvious, my performance on Corinthus vs. Prof. Vandaeris fight was far from perfect. So if I sounded angry in my ranting and raving, it was more directed at myself... I am sorry that you had to be a part of that! I hope that this all makes sense. If it does not, please ask me about it and I will gladly talk with you about it! I am here to make friends and enjoy D&D, not make war! :D I hope everyone understands and excepts my apology... *•. Zerone Edit: One last thing... I was a in over my head on this fight and I was embarresed with my lack of Knowledge: D&D. :turkey: I acted in haste and in a defensive manner, and am at fault. Woohoo! I made a mistake and I've learned another lesson! All is well that ends well... thanks for your understanding! :D |
| Druid Roxors10-04-04, 10:44 AM | @ Zerone: I want to thank you for running the fight and taking so much time to consult with me and the book about every nit and cranky. I know first hand that you spent around 6 hours with this fight and I am grateful for your dedication. What I see as main problems in this fight was the fact that I didn't have counter-tactics for Finger of Death and that the professor was not expecting me to dimension door. That alone made the professor's tactics extremely difficult to interpret. (oh, and the fact that I hadnt seen the picture of a Crysmal, I thought it had a humanoid "earth elementaly" shape yes I like my SRD :P). All in all, I believe this fight was excelent being your 6th fight and I believe we can come to expect many great things from you. I am not uncomfortable with the outcome (although 4 extra words in my tactics would have made me won the fight : /) and I am glad that you had this oportunity to learn. As for sinking 6 hours into this fight, Thanks alot! (and you can thank Caterane for the level 16 assignment :P) |
| Sindorin10-04-04, 10:58 AM | I am a perfectionist, and as is obvious, my performance on Corinthus vs. Prof. Vandaeris fight was far from perfect. So if I sounded angry in my ranting and raving, it was more directed at myself... I am sorry that you had to be a part of that! I think you'll find that you are in the company of many perfectionists here in the CoCo who often will become angry with themselves. It's called being 'human'. This is an interesting time for this place, what with the shake-up of our GM's, many new faces, etc. I, personally, enjoy observing your enthusiasm here. |
| Beldin10-04-04, 11:00 AM | Shouldn't protection from good ward Aku against Peters summons? |
| Druid Roxors10-04-04, 11:02 AM | Only against their natural weapons. |
| Zerone10-04-04, 01:10 PM | Bilo Darkleaf vs. Aemon is posted here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4536428&postcount=978). Attn. Snark: I did not use the Ego Whip trick because you have no Potion of Int, which is consumed in the casting. If I missed it some how, I am Blind! Zerone Edit: Please do not be afraid to post comments about this fight... :devil: "Now's our chance, let's get 'em!!!" roars the mob... :pile::bounce: |
| SnarkHunter10-04-04, 01:23 PM | No biggie Zerone, I had only one question; looking at the damage of the scorching ray I was impressed but forced to wonder-did you include the extra 5d6 sneak attack on the first ray of each attack? How about the +1 from point blank shot. Not that more damage is all that necessary, but it is fun :). |
| Zerone10-04-04, 01:26 PM | Oooops. Forgot the Sneak attack, but I do not think you were within 30'... So would any of that happen? |
| Ashenai10-04-04, 01:40 PM | (In the future, I plan to do more of these fight critiques; as many as I have the time and energy for. I think it's useful if I post my criticisms publicly on this forum, so everyone can learn from them and/or correct me if necessary. However, if anyone would prefer that I send my critique to them by PM instead of making it public, please tell me and I will do so. I don't want to make anyone look bad.) I think this fight was done a lot better than the Prof/Corinthus one; the fact that you noted exact positions and spell effects is especially appreciated. :) It's also (IMO) a lot more error-free. Here are the issues I've found. Round 3: Solid Fog has a verbal component. Casting spells with a verbal component counts as talking, which means a Move Silently check of 0 (regardless of skill). In other words Aemon should have heard Bilo, and detected his location to within 10'. Ditto with Scorching Ray in Round 4. Rounds 3 and 4: The griffon moved 5 squares (25 feet) instead of 5'. Rounds 4 and 5: You need to roll a to-hit for each Scorching Ray separately. Bilo can still miss on a 1. :) Round 4: You forgot about Bilo's sneak attack damage with Scorching Ray. He was within 30' and was sniping, so he should have gotten Sneak Attack. Round 5: As written, Bilo is not in range to cast his second Scorching Ray. |
| Sindorin10-04-04, 01:44 PM | Since I have seen this here and there yet have not the forum savvy and experience, what exactly does "IMO" stand for? |
| Ashenai10-04-04, 01:50 PM | Here's some of the more common "netspeak" abbreviations you'll encounter (not just in the CoCo; all over the Internet): IMO: In My Opinion IMHO: In My Humble Opinion AFAIK: As Far As I Know IIRC: If I Remember Correctly WTF: What The Fudge? OTOH: On The Other Hand TY: Thank You |
| Zerone10-04-04, 01:57 PM | Attn. Sindorin: IMO or IMHO = In My Opnion, or In My Humble Opinion Attn. Ashenai: Thanks for the critique! The help is appreciated and needed! :D Round 3: Solid Fog has a verbal component. Casting spells with a verbal component counts as talking, which means a Move Silently check of 0 (regardless of skill). In other words Aemon should have heard Bilo, and detected his location to within 10'. Ditto with Scorching Ray in Round 4. I did not know that... :rolleyes: Rounds 3 and 4: The griffon moved 5 squares (25 feet) instead of 5'. Whoops... Rounds 4 and 5: You need to roll a to-hit for each Scorching Ray separately. Bilo can still miss on a 1. I did not know that... :rolleyes: Round 4: You forgot about Bilo's sneak attack damage with Scorching Ray. He was within 30' and was sniping, so he should have gotten Sneak Attack. I did not think he was within 30'. Round 5: As written, Bilo is not in range to cast his second Scorching Ray. I have a hard time with locations, as I do them on the map EVERY turn on the Gladiator's and Faq page... It sucks... So, in RND 3, when Aemon hears him, what happens? He moves over to the range dictated by his roll and then Spots? |
| Ashenai10-04-04, 02:09 PM | I did not think he was within 30'. He was (exactly 30'). Bilo was at (-14x, -4y), and Aemon was at (-10x, 0y); that's four diagonal squares away, which is a total distance of six squares, or 30'. (You probably know this, just in case...) The way distance is calculated in D&D 3.5 is like this: every second disagonal square counts as 10' (two squares). So, for instance, if Anne is at (0,0) and Bob is at (3,4), then the distance between Anne and Bob is 5 squares (25'), because it's three diagonal steps (the first and third counting as 5' and the second counting as 10'), plus one normal step. I have a hard time with locations, as I do them on the map EVERY turn on the Gladiator's and Faq page... It sucks... I used to do it that way as well, so I know exactly what you mean. Luckily, there is a solution. If you don't feel like mucking about with paper maps and miniatures, do what I do, and use this CoCo map tool: http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/coco/coco.html It's originally meant for calculating Line-of-Sight (and is very useful in that function as well), but it just happens to be (almost) perfect for keeping track of gladiator positions, too. Much less hassle than the method you're using, and much easier to see, too. :) So, in RND 3, when Aemon hears him, what happens? He moves over to the range dictated by his roll and then Spots? Based on his tactics, I think he'd probably move to deny Beldin cover (remember, you cannot hide if you don't have cover... doesn't matter what your skill is), and shoot (and/or activate Blink) from fairly far away. Anyway, don't forget that you're here to have fun. We'd much rather you had fun pitlording fights and leave a few mistakes in than get burned out on trying to learn too much at once and leave. Improve at your own pace, and try not to work so much on a fight that it becomes unfun. :) |
| Jindl10-04-04, 02:20 PM | (In the future, I plan to do more of these fight critiques; as many as I have the time and energy for. I think it's useful if I post my criticisms publicly on this forum, so everyone can learn from them and/or correct me if necessary. However, if anyone would prefer that I send my critique to them by PM instead of making it public, please tell me and I will do so. I don't want to make anyone look bad.) I think this fight was done a lot better than the Prof/Corinthus one; the fact that you noted exact positions and spell effects is especially appreciated. :) Ashenai does do a great job of critiquing fights without upsetting the pitlord. I did want to include a little input on top of his comments, though: It's also (IMO) a lot more error-free. Here are the issues I've found. Round 3: Solid Fog has a verbal component. Casting spells with a verbal component counts as talking, which means a Move Silently check of 0 (regardless of skill). In other words Aemon should have heard Bilo, and detected his location to within 10'. Ditto with Scorching Ray in Round 4. In both cases, Bilo moves after casting. So Aemon cannot pinpoint by listening to the verbal components, unless he was using a readied action to get Bilo before he moved away. However, since it is a move action to hide after sniping, I'm not sure Bilo should have been allowed to both move away after casting and rehide. If Bilo can't move away and rehide, then logically he would stay put and rehide, in which case Ashenai is correct that Aemon could locate him from listening to the verbal components. Round 4: You forgot about Bilo's sneak attack damage with Scorching Ray. He was within 30' and was sniping, so he should have gotten Sneak Attack. Bilo was at (-14x, -4y) and Aemon was at (-10x, 0y). That's a distance of 20 feet along each of the x and y coordinates. By DnD distance rules, that puts him exactly 30 feet away on the diagonal. So Bilo does get sneak attack damage. Be aware that the sneak attack dice only applies to the first 4d6 attack of the scorching ray spell (just as it would only apply to the first arrow of a manyshot attack). I have a hard time with locations, as I do them on the map EVERY turn on the Gladiator's and Faq page... It sucks... Zan and cellardwellar (and to a lesser extent, me !!) are working on a simple utility to help with distance calculations. It should be up and running and accessable to everyone soon. Hopefully it will make pitlording fights much simpler, because all the distance calculations will be automated. -Jindl |
| Zerone10-04-04, 02:27 PM | In both cases, Bilo moves after casting. So Aemon cannot pinpoint by listening to the verbal components, unless he was using a readied action to get Bilo before he moved away. However, since it is a move action to hide after sniping, I'm not sure Bilo should have been allowed to both move away after casting and rehide. If Bilo can't move away and rehide, then logically he would stay put and rehide, in which case Ashenai is correct that Aemon could locate him from listening to the verbal components. Where is the information on a move action to snipe? I have not seen this. I wish to resolve this fight, but I must leave for the evening soon, 1.5 hours away. Otherwise I will not complete the fight till late tonight/this morning, after the deadline, if not before the 1.5 hours... :( |
| Ashenai10-04-04, 02:30 PM | However, since it is a move action to hide after sniping, I'm not sure Bilo should have been allowed to both move away after casting and rehide. If Bilo can't move away and rehide, then logically he would stay put and rehide, in which case Ashenai is correct that Aemon could locate him from listening to the verbal components. I'm pretty sure Zerone did it right; Bilo did two "snipe-and-rehides", one in Round 2 and one in Round 4. In Round 4, he didn't move at all, and in Round 2, he only did a 5' step, which is legal (since technically, rehiding after a snipe is not moving any actual distance). The Solid Fog casting in Round 3 was not, I think, a sniping attempt; the Griffon would, of course, have spotted Bilo, but he didn't care about that. I believe a non-sniping attack only automatically reveals you to your target. I concur with all your other points, though. @Zerone: You'll find the rules for sniping under the Hide skill. Like I said, though, I'm pretty sure you ruled correctly for Bilo's sniping. :) |
| Zerone10-04-04, 02:43 PM | @Zerone: You'll find the rules for sniping under the Hide skill. Like I said, though, I'm pretty sure you ruled correctly for Bilo's sniping. Thanks, but it doesn't say it takes a move action...? |
| Caterane10-04-04, 02:43 PM | Raegar vs Eiletha (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4537016&posted=1#post4537016) is up |
| Ashenai10-04-04, 02:56 PM | Thanks, but it doesn't say it takes a move action...? It does, just two paragraphs lower, in the "Action:" paragraph. |
| Zerone10-04-04, 03:02 PM | Oh, thanks. :rolleyes: :D But if Aemon hears Bilo cast Solid Fog, and Aemon thjen moves around the rock, why does he get to see Bilo without Spotting him? |
| Jindl10-04-04, 03:09 PM | Oh, thanks. :rolleyes: :D But if Aemon hears Bilo cast Solid Fog, and Aemon thjen moves around the rock, why does he get to see Bilo without Spotting him? When Aemon moves, he negates Bilo's cover, which makes Spot automatic. You must have cover or concealment in order to hide. Negating that cover or concealment means you can't hide, and you can spot your foe automatically. |
| Zerone10-04-04, 03:15 PM | So there are no shadows in the arena? |
| Ashenai10-04-04, 03:24 PM | That's a good question. The answer would be no, though now that you mention it, maybe there should be? At the very least, it'd make Darkvision a bit more useful. |
| Jindl10-04-04, 03:27 PM | So there are no shadows in the arena? Not enough to grant concealment. That's a good question. The answer would be no, though now that you mention it, maybe there should be? At the very least, it'd make Darkvision a bit more useful. We ruled that for purposes of HiPS (for Rangers, Assassins, Shadowdancers) and shadow jump (for Shadowdancers), there exists some amount of shadow within 5 ft of every object in the arena. Darkvision would negate this as far as the HiPS ability is concerned. None of these shadows provide a miss chance for concealment, nor are the suitable for hiding without HiPS. I'm not opposed to the possibility of changing this, although I do think it would make the pitlord's life even more difficult. -Jindl |
| Zerone10-04-04, 04:16 PM | Bilo vs. Aemon has been edited. Thank you for your patience and help! Zerone |
| SnarkHunter10-04-04, 04:50 PM | Right a few notes on the revised fight: in rd 4 each scorching ray requires a ranged touch attack, and thus could miss with the blink effect. However its worth noting that the first of such attacks could use bilo's impromptu sneak attack to get the sneak damage despite being visible. That's not increased w/ empower of course. In round 6 Aemon can only ready to fire a single arrow. For his note though, that attack could miss since he suffers a miss chance from the blink effect as well. Edit: as it is I am generally satisfied with how this fight was run. |
| Druid Roxors10-05-04, 12:17 AM | Damn, My calculations were incorrect. It will take me some extra time to finish the fight. I am sorry Zerone and Cellardweller. I will try to have it in 2 hours or tomorrow at ~11 am (Central) at the latest. :( |
| Zerone10-05-04, 09:37 AM | Right a few notes on the revised fight: in rd 4 each scorching ray requires a ranged touch attack... its worth noting that the first of such attacks could use bilo's impromptu sneak attack to get the sneak . In round 6 Aemon can only ready to fire a single arrow. For his note though, that attack could miss since he suffers a miss chance from the blink effect as well. Edit: as it is I am generally satisfied with how this fight was run. I have edited the fight accordingly. :D |
| Caterane10-05-04, 10:38 AM | Don´t worry Zerone, there´s no better place to learn the rules than the CoCo :) |
| Zerone10-05-04, 11:20 AM | Round 5: - Catherine sees Metatron escape and quickly casts Magic missile from memory (reasoning that he should be almost dead already) (Dmg: 7) - The Metatron is unconcious - Cerviel double-moves towards Catherine. Catherine: 18/18, (-,-,0), Black Tentacles [7] Metatron: -6/23, (-,-,0) Cerviel: 30/30, (-,-,0), Attack Trick [L] Round 5: - Catherine casts Magic missile from memory (minimum damage 4) - The Metatron is dead Just a few question... ;) Why didn't Cerviel base Catherine in round 5 (the first one :P) either by the Double Move and Charge or Run there? This could possibly give AoO or perhaps block Line of Sight (I am Prone after all...)? Also, why did I not move out of the Evard's to cover? Or at least backwards to block LoS and then heal? Edit: Also, when I escaped the Evard's, why did I not receive an action? Such as my Readied Actions or heal? |
| Druid Roxors10-05-04, 12:13 PM | Just a few question... ;) Why didn't Cerviel base Catherine in round 5 (the first one :P)He couldn't evade cover. either by the Double Move and Charge or Run there? This could possibly give AoO or perhaps block Line of Sight (I am Prone after all...)? A creature never provides full cover. Also, why did I not move out of the Evard's to cover? Or at least backwards to block LoS and then heal?This was revised, no change due to the fact that she has no Attack rolls to use and has a mount. Edit: Also, when I escaped the Evard's, why did I not receive an action? Such as my Readied Actions or heal?Escaping a grapple is an action. The fear... http://boards1.wizards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2996 |
| WizO_Shadow10-05-04, 03:26 PM | Finished talking to Jindl a few moments ago and will be continuing the fight here momentarily. I will then be finishing up the fights on the roster/pairings. is the lvl 16 fight cleared up so I can mark it off the list as well? Shadow |
| Caterane10-05-04, 04:45 PM | Yep, let me sing the outcome: Corinthus my friend, is blowing in the wind Corinthus is blowing in the wiiind :D |
| Zerone10-05-04, 06:02 PM | Edit: Deleted Post, See Below... |
| Zerone10-05-04, 07:47 PM | is the lvl 16 fight cleared up so I can mark it off the list as well? Yes. Thanks to everyone for their input and patience! Also, the Bilo vs. Aemon fight is complete. Zerone |
| Zerone10-05-04, 10:40 PM | I ask that this fight be rerun on Aramil’s and My behalf for the following reasons: 1. Round 1: Aramil moves forwad 5’ and drinks a potion when asking to move (at least 20’) forward towards me and Drink a potion. 2. Round 2: Ernie Casts Silence and stands still. I stated tactics that if he went invisible to interrupt tactics and cast See Invisibility. If I moved 120’ in 2 rounds and had no Line of Sight to Ernie (-7 ACP to hide plus a dwarf) and didn’t execute this tactic, a 21 Int is useless… (Jin's Int) 3. Ernie Casts Silence first and then tries to buff? He should have been warned that his tactics did not work. I do not know if this happened or not, but … 4. Round 5: I cast See Invisibility and he is right in front of me, 5’ away??? He still hasn’t moved. We threaten each other…? 5. Tactics against Silence on Ernie were not used. 6. No Spellcraft checks were made to detect any active spells and I could not see him cast because he was invisible when I should have seen him with See Invisibility… I’ll stop here… Zerone |
| Aramil Dunskar10-05-04, 10:46 PM | Heh, well you know Zerone, we could just leave it like this since our records vs each other would be 1 and 1 ;) Heh also, I made a huge error in my tatics, I meant to put the silence after I casted my buffs... not before >_< Still I'd say its up to Kedi if he would want to re-run it or not. -AD |
| Zerone10-05-04, 11:01 PM | Heh, well you know Zerone, we could just leave it like this since our records vs each other would be 1 and 1 ;) -AD :hoppingma Hehehehehehehehehehehe!!! :rofl: I haven't laughed like that in a while... :D Sorry, but I wish to have it rerun. No offense or ill wishes to you, except that Ernie rolls over and dies! :schemes: |
| Ashenai10-06-04, 02:36 AM | There are definitely issues with the fight... they're a little difficult to list, since, to be entirely honest, I can't quite tell what's going on a lot of the time. It is, of course, kedi's decision whether to rerun the fight or not. It would be nice if he could include a bit more details, though; listing rolls and gladiator positions would help a lot, for instance. :) |
| Beldin10-06-04, 05:16 AM | Allies cannot begin closer to your opponent than the PC. So Ixenthors pet could not grant him cover and Draks firs arrow should have hit |
| Jindl10-06-04, 09:36 AM | So Ixenthors pet could not grant him cover and Draks firs arrow should have hit Yep. The rule preventing allies from starting closer than the PC was one of Mo's original rules for the arena. Ixenthor should not have had cover against Drak's first arrow. |