Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sindorin 02-02-05, 12:52 PM	It's Groundhog's Day!!! Here is an alignment count as our roster currently stands: Lawful Good:6 Chaotic Good:13 Neutral Good:11 Neutral:13 Lawful Neutral:7 Chaotic Neutral:9 Neutral Evil:7 Lawful Evil: 4 Chaotic Evil: 4
SnarkHunter 02-02-05, 01:32 PM	I advocate solving problems through interprative dance.
Ashenai 02-02-05, 03:00 PM	Oh, you do, do you?
T'Var 02-02-05, 03:18 PM	Oh, you do, do you? :eek: :eek: :eek:
Sindorin 02-02-05, 03:24 PM	That was such a riot when he posted it... no one saw it coming.
OdinTheReaper 02-02-05, 03:42 PM	Great Stuff
Huan 02-02-05, 03:43 PM	Oh, you do, do you? :heehee Oh lord, that's hilarious.
Sindorin 02-02-05, 04:00 PM	THE HOUR IS UPON US! DESIST THE EDITING OF THINE SHEETS! Who let the horses out? Who? Who, who, who? Who let the horses out? Who? Who, who, who...
Snommelp 02-02-05, 05:24 PM	While we're waiting for the pairings... MARCO!
T'Var 02-02-05, 05:32 PM	While we're waiting for the pairings... MARCO! polo
Snommelp 02-02-05, 05:34 PM	*SMACK!* OWWW!!!! That wan't T'Var, that was a WALL!
T'Var 02-02-05, 05:39 PM	*SMACK!* OWWW!!!! That wan't T'Var, that was a WALL! *drops the scroll of magic mouth with a snicker*
Sindorin 02-02-05, 06:01 PM	Ah crap, I hate when I make typos. On Va'ria's sheet I missed the 5 and put a 1, making it look like I bought it for 1100 gp... She won't use it during whatever fight she ends up in... :rolleyes: That, my friends, is what I get for editing in the dark.
Arstimis 02-02-05, 11:01 PM	Ah crap, I hate when I make typos. On Va'ria's sheet I missed the 5 and put a 1, making it look like I bought it for 1100 gp... She won't use it during whatever fight she ends up in... :rolleyes: That, my friends, is what I get for editing in the dark. No big deal, It's the fight against me, and I dont cast magic missle anyways
Sindorin 02-02-05, 11:21 PM	No big deal, It's the fight against me, and I dont cast magic missle anyways Sounds good, thanks. Re: the pairings - What the heck! I am facing my brother! :)
Snommelp 02-02-05, 11:28 PM	Tactics sent. Maybe Tara will win this one... *crossed fingers*
Pitlords 02-02-05, 11:38 PM	Well, pairings are ready. My apologies for the lateness. T'Var got four fights (serves him right for asking to be set to <max>), while Caterane and Jindl both got one more than they'd have preferred. If anyone else wants to run fights, Cat and Jindl would both probably be happy to hand one over; I don't know about T'Var. Credit changes: Sindorin, SnarkHunter, and Kaigan have 3 active characters this week. This costs them 1 credit each. T'Var is running 4 fights, which earns him 4 credits. Jindl is running 3 fights, which earns him 3 credits. Cellardweller, Huan, Naerdaloth, Pittbull, and Snommelp are running 2 fights, which earns them 2 credits each. Arstimis, Ashenai, Caterane, Einzelgaenger, Kaigan, MysticMonk2005, and One_Winged_Angel are running 1 fight, which earns them 1 credit each. Ashenai, Caterane, and SnarkHunter earn 2 credits each for running a quest. Ashenai and Caterane earn 1 credit each for board administration. Jindl earns 1 credit for running the World's Largest Dungeon. Huan gets 3 credits for his stories: KoRn vs Necavi, Flower vs Risal Atess, and Jindl of the High Forest vs Rex the Kuldjargh. Kaigan and One_Winged_Angel get 1 credit each for their stories in the Buddha vs. Solmund and Kiyo vs Damon fights, respectively. Total: Huan: +5 credits Ashenai, Caterane, Jindl, T'Var: +4 credits Cellardweller, Naerdaloth, One_Winged_Angel, Pittbull, Snommelp: +2 credits Arstimis, Einzelgaenger, Kaigan, MysticMonk2005, SnarkHunter: +1 credit Sindorin: -1 credit
T'Var 02-02-05, 11:38 PM	The credits are MINE!!!! ALL MINE HAHAAHAHAAAHAHA!!!!!! I will make my single fight ECL 20 PitFiend then I shall challenge 20 ECL 3's to a single mass combat HAHAHAHAHAH Tactics sent. Maybe Tara will win this one... *crossed fingers* damn that was fast.....hmm gonna have to put some serious though about how to beat Tara this time
Snommelp 02-02-05, 11:49 PM	What's there to think about? Accept your fate. You cannot hope to beat the terror that stalks through the night. And Tara's not too shabby either.
cellardweller 02-03-05, 12:53 AM	Tactics status Damon - Sent Via email Janelle - Sent via email Uhmentarymster (init 8+X) - recieved Rayos Atess (init 5+X) - recieved Aloran Windseer (init 15+X) - recieved Necavi Omnes (init 7+X) - recieved
OdinTheReaper 02-03-05, 01:58 AM	@Pittbull: Odin's Tactics sent via email...also sent a pm concerning tactics/problems/questions.... :dancin:
Pittbull 02-03-05, 05:15 AM	@Odin: Got it!! @OWA: Tactic for Boraxx is sent. EDIT:@Arstimis: KoRn's tactic has been sent.
Dalton Onestone 02-03-05, 06:41 AM	@Ash -- surely Silvalyn has had more than the one fight you linked? Also, I think you forgot to give him the synergy bonus to Spellcraft from Knowledge:Arcana. @Huan -- is it OK if I hold off on doing tactics for Kwerrock until Ash posts the fight links for Silvalyn?
Dalton Onestone 02-03-05, 06:56 AM	@Viper -- both of Derth's fight links appear to be broken, and I can't find either fight linked from the other gladiator's char sheet either. Also, you understated your HP when in rage. I also suspect you may have shortchanged yourself in the ability point-buy. @Ash, Huan, Viper, T'Var -- if you see "Protection From Animals" on my char sheet, I mean "Hide From Animals" @Cat -- your link to the Uhlenmeister/Derth fight is broken.
One_Winged_Angel 02-03-05, 09:44 AM	Got tactics for Boraxx. I'll send out tactics for my characters soon. Darn, but these pairings are making me think first.
T'Var 02-03-05, 09:49 AM	@Naerdaloth tactics sent for Klaxon should be a good fight
Caterane 02-03-05, 10:07 AM	Tactics for Indri and Uhmentarymster sent @Dalton: Seems like I just copied the 2nd link and forgot to alter the number. But wow, you are everywhere! :eek:
Pittbull 02-03-05, 10:23 AM	@Kaigan: Cat requested an initiative-roll in advance, here it is: indri15+4=19, Aeiou 5+1=6 @Cat: Please contact me with instant-messenger.
Jindl 02-03-05, 10:30 AM	@ Ash, OWA, Kaigan, Beldin, Zepher, and Snommelp- Please get me tactics ASAP. Here are the initiative rolls (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?) (under the name: JindlsFights_02Feb05), if it helps: Ex Nihilo (Ashenai) vs Keth'Arian'Kari (One_Winged_Angel): Monk Fight #1 Ex Nihilio: 11 +2 = 13 (BTW: You're missing the link to your last fight.) Keth: 13 +6 = 19 Risal Atess (Kaigan) vs Hakatri Abendstern (Beldin) Risal: 19 +5 = 24 Hakatri: 7 +3 = 10 Kiyo Zephlyn (Zepher) vs Snomm Elp "The Waist-High Fist" (Snommelp): Monk Fight #2 Kiyo: 4 +4 = 8 Snomm Elp: 14 +3 = 17 Wow, lots of Monk on Monk action... BTW: Tactics recieved for Snomm Elp. ========================= @ T'Var and Ash - Could you guys post the initiative for JotHF's fight and the Elder's fight? Thanks!
Kaigan 02-03-05, 11:34 AM	@Pittbull: Tactics sent for Aeluath Dryearraheal via PM. Why? Why did I choose such a weird, hard name?
T'Var 02-03-05, 11:39 AM	Init Inihe Rotblume 12+4=16 (wins thru higher init mod) Jindl 15+1=16
T'Var 02-03-05, 12:38 PM	@Snommelp tactics for Flower have been sent Summoner vs Summoner...should be something to see
Sindorin 02-03-05, 12:49 PM	All three of my characters' novel's worths of tactics have been sent to their respective pitlords...
Snommelp 02-03-05, 01:48 PM	Tactics recieved for Flower. @ Jindl: thanks for the Initiative roll. I looked over the tactics, and can't think of anything to add because of this new information. Just have fun playing Snomm; a gnome monk isn't supposed to be taken seriously!
Beldin 02-03-05, 03:02 PM	@Jindl: Tactics for Hakatri have been sent via email. Edit: @T'Var: Tactics for inihe have been sent via email. Edit2: via PM, too. Sorry
Jindl 02-03-05, 04:05 PM	@Jindl: Tactics for Hakatri have been sent via email. Edit: @T'Var: Tactics for inihe have been sent via email. Edit2: via PM, too. Sorry @Beldin - Wait, you're supposed to send me the tactics for Inihe... <grins evilly> (j/k)
T'Var 02-03-05, 04:14 PM	@Beldin - Wait, you're supposed to send me the tactics for Inihe... <grins evilly> (j/k) thats ok Jindl, i'll forward them to you :P
Beldin 02-03-05, 04:24 PM	:eek:
T'Var 02-03-05, 04:32 PM	making a charector............................... ....45 minutes running a match for the CoCo.....................1.5 hours waiting to see the outcome of a fight...........3-4 days selling tactics to their opponent :eek: Priceless
TaggIIV 02-03-05, 04:34 PM	tactics recieved from Snommelp, T'Var, and Sindorin (speedy speedy o.o) Probably will run Klaxon and Tara later today if I have time.. edit: naerdaloth here
Snommelp 02-03-05, 05:00 PM	@ Jindl: I was looking at my character sheet and noticed a mistake (I hit the edit button, too, then remembered that Snomm had been paired and couldn't be edited). His crossbow is Masterwork, so with that and the size bonus the total attack bonus should be +7, not +6. Probably won't matter, but when I notice a mistake, I fix it.
SnarkHunter 02-03-05, 05:14 PM	Sent tactics for the Buddha. Edit: Sent tactics for Rose and Evram. Prolly won't start quest today unfortunatly...
One_Winged_Angel 02-03-05, 05:43 PM	Tactics for Keth'Arian'Kari away to Jindl via E-mail. Please conferm. Tactics are in the work for Aloran. Should be away some time later today.
Snommelp 02-03-05, 06:07 PM	Tactics for Evram recieved. I'll run the fight after my Jazz class.
Jindl 02-03-05, 06:09 PM	Tactics recieved for Hakatri (Beldin) and Keth (OWA).
One_Winged_Angel 02-03-05, 06:21 PM	Tactics for Aloran sent to Cellardweller. Good fun! Just need my last tactics for Damon, and I can get the fight underway. Perhaps another poem for Damon is in order...
Dalton Onestone 02-03-05, 06:33 PM	In addition to the comments above: @Viper, T'Var -- I want to change GrandElf's Level 1 feat from Dodge to Wild Talent. Obviously, it's too late to edit the character sheet accordingly. @T'Var -- could you please roll init for that fight? @Huan -- could you please roll init for the Kwerrock/Sivalyn fight? @Ash -- Sivalyn's gold seems fried. On the plus side, I found the fight against The Nameless that you forgot to link to. Thanks! EDIT: Also @Ash -- are you riding bareback? I couldn't see saddle or bit/bridle on your char sheet.
T'Var 02-03-05, 06:56 PM	In addition to the comments above: @Viper, T'Var -- I want to change GrandElf's Level 1 feat from Dodge to Wild Talent. Obviously, it's too late to edit the character sheet accordingly. @T'Var -- could you please roll init for that fight? since you have not used dodge i see no problem with the change add it to your tactics so i remember GrandElf 6+3=9 Derth 15+1=16
Sindorin 02-03-05, 07:11 PM	@ Einzelgaenger I have sent you a tactical revision PM because, well, I am paranoid. Please confirm. Thanks, ~Sindorin
Huan 02-03-05, 07:57 PM	@Dalton, Ashenai Your initiative was rolled here (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=Kwer_vs_Siv): Kwerrok: 11 Sivalyn: 11 (but since he has a higher modifier, he goes first) @Sindorin Tactics for Sokai recieved, thank you.
Piuro 02-03-05, 08:00 PM	Fenir was set to ready this week, c'mon. For gods sake.
Dalton Onestone 02-03-05, 08:11 PM	since you have not used dodge i see no problem with the change add it to your tactics so i remember GrandElf 6+3=9 Derth 15+1=16 Thanks. Oh well.
Dalton Onestone 02-03-05, 08:12 PM	@Dalton, Ashenai Your initiative was rolled here (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=Kwer_vs_Siv): Kwerrok: 11 Sivalyn: 11 (but since he has a higher modifier, he goes first) Thanks. Dang. If I actually had won init I might have gone for the one-shot kill, which could have saved a whole lot of tactics writing ...
Huan 02-03-05, 11:25 PM	@Kaigan Tactics for Rook sent.
SnarkHunter 02-04-05, 12:28 AM	Fenir was set to ready this week, c'mon. For gods sake. If you'd like I could ready Moon-moon. Still'd have to find a DM though.
MysticMonk2005 02-04-05, 01:40 AM	Tactics recived for Rose. If nobody else wants to, I'll pick up the extra fight. But I am a bit rusty. (I havn't Pitlorded since summer) So there are definatley better people to pick it up. But as I said I'm willing if no one else is.
Piuro 02-04-05, 01:40 AM	If you'd like I could ready Moon-moon. Still'd have to find a DM though. Ill get Einz or Fro
Kaigan 02-04-05, 01:48 AM	@Huan and Solmund: Received tactics for Rook and Solmund. Sending other tactics via PM in a couple of hours, or tomorrow.
Snommelp 02-04-05, 01:52 AM	Sorry guys. I said I'd do the fight after jazz, then after jazz became after dinner, then after dinner became after InterVarsity, and then I finally got back to my room and realized that I had packed my dice for my trip to Tucson tomorrow. I'll try to get it up tomorrow, but that's at least a four hour drive, and my sister's in a play in the evening... but at least it's not Monday yet!
xanadu 02-04-05, 02:21 AM	@ cellardweller - tactics sent last night via PM, please let me know if you got them.
cellardweller 02-04-05, 04:27 AM	I have recieved them, but haven't had time to actually read them yet. Damon and Janelle's tactics are going to be a tad late (est 16hrs from now).
Pittbull 02-04-05, 09:20 AM	Please, help me!!! Having two fights with the same circimstances: Both opponents are mounted (same speed!), one of them wants to deny any charges for any price. I allready dicussed it with Cat and he convinced me that it's possible, with clever movement, to deny any oportunity to charge if both mounts have the same speed. But is it possible to get a normal melee-attack (after a double-move)?- I would say yes, because the arena has limited space. This is very complex, if you consider the skill to spur a mount or to use a run. The question is: Under these circumstances (same speed, clever movement, limited space,...), is there only ranged combat possible, or might there be a chance for a melee-attack? Please help me before Monday. :allalone: Thanks a lot!!!
T'Var 02-04-05, 09:34 AM	Please, help me!!! Having two fights with the same circimstances: Both opponents are mounted (same speed!), one of them wants to deny any charges for any price. I allready dicussed it with Cat and he convinced me that it's possible, with clever movement, to deny any oportunity to charge if both mounts have the same speed. But is it possible to get a normal melee-attack (after a double-move)?- I would say yes, because the arena has limited space. This is very complex, if you consider the skill to spur a mount or to use a run. The question is: Under these circumstances (same speed, clever movement, limited space,...), is there only ranged combat possible, or might there be a chance for a melee-attack? Please help me before Monday. :allalone: Thanks a lot!!! yes you can use the mounts double move to get into melee (not a charge) and have the rider make a single melee attack which would negate a charge possability on both sides
One_Winged_Angel 02-04-05, 09:42 AM	Please, help me!!! Having two fights with the same circimstances: Both opponents are mounted (same speed!), one of them wants to deny any charges for any price. I allready dicussed it with Cat and he convinced me that it's possible, with clever movement, to deny any oportunity to charge if both mounts have the same speed. But is it possible to get a normal melee-attack (after a double-move)?- I would say yes, because the arena has limited space. This is very complex, if you consider the skill to spur a mount or to use a run. The question is: Under these circumstances (same speed, clever movement, limited space,...), is there only ranged combat possible, or might there be a chance for a melee-attack? Please help me before Monday. :allalone: Thanks a lot!!! Quick question: Does either side have a reach weapon? Otherwise, T'Var has the right idea. Another one is to just get into melee range and smack the guy as he rides out.
SnarkHunter 02-04-05, 09:52 AM	How bout this: the one who wants melee could ready an action to move towards his foe after they attack and move (setting up a charge maybe?). Then since they get their next action before the opponent does they can charge or just double move and attack. Complicated but possible for the canny planner.
Jindl 02-04-05, 10:14 AM	@Pittbull - Also check out the Ride skill description for how to use it to Spur Mount (adds 10 ft of movement).
Dalton Onestone 02-04-05, 10:41 AM	Tactics for GrandElf (vs. Derth) PMed to T'Var Tactics for Kwerrck (vs. Sivalyn) emailed to Huan Note -- I generally forget to mention the obvious point about using the mounted cover check in case somebody shoots when my characters are on horseback. I think that's a costless free action ...
Dalton Onestone 02-04-05, 10:41 AM	Quick question: Does either side have a reach weapon? Presumably, they have lances.
Kaigan 02-04-05, 11:56 AM	@Jindl: Sent tactics for Risal via PM @Cellerwarder: Will send tactics for Rayos later today.
MysticMonk2005 02-04-05, 12:50 PM	What is going on with the extra fight? And I'm still waiting for Janelle's tactics.
Sindorin 02-04-05, 01:15 PM	Well it is about time for some levelling... The following characters are 3-0 and will level up after this week's pairings: Uhmentarymster the Old (Caterane) Flower (T'Var) Jindl of the High Forest (Jindl) Eniolyssaryn the Elder (Jindl) Rayos Atess (Kaigan) Shivock (ME! Sindorin) Kwerrock the Quiet (Dalton Onestone) Odin Soulbringer (OdinTheReaper) The Buddha (SnarkHunter) Skymoon-Moonbow (SnarkHunter) In addition, there are many characters who are 2-1 and will level up if they win. They are as follows: Indri'ynar Per-El'ereth (Caterane) Sokai Calanis (Sindorin) Brandt, Cadman Chival III (MadCowTemplate) Lissa Longfellow (MysticMonk2005) Rook "Chaotic Phoenix" Devange (Huan) Boraxx (Pittbull) Evram the Soulless (SnarkHunter) Grakk Mightyfist (Aramil Dunskar) Good luck second group!
Jindl 02-04-05, 01:44 PM	@Sindorin - Don't forget Skymoon Moonbow, Snarkhunter (only if the pairing between him and Fenir, Piuro is approved). @Kaigan - Tactics reiceived. Fights will be run starting Saturday. @Ash, T'Var - I'm working on tactics for JotHF and the Elder ... please be patient :(
T'Var 02-04-05, 01:52 PM	@Ash, T'Var - I'm working on tactics for JotHF and the Elder ... please be patient :( NO SOUP FOR YOU!
Sindorin 02-04-05, 02:18 PM	@Sindorin - Don't forget Skymoon Moonbow, Snarkhunter (only if the pairing between him and Fenir, Piuro is approved). yep, I was planning on putting him in the list if he fought. I await the pitlords post confirming credit change. :) ~Sindorin
Sindorin 02-04-05, 02:20 PM	NO SOUP FOR YOU! hehe, have you ever been to Al's Soup Kitchen in RL? The guy actually will get mad if you don't know exactly what you want when you go in. I did know what I wanted though.
Kaigan 02-04-05, 03:52 PM	@Cellardweller: Sent Rayos tactics via PM
Pitlords 02-04-05, 04:43 PM	Fenir Ahea (Piuro) vs Skymoon Moonbow (Snarkhunter): Caterane has been added to the roster. Credit changes: Cat+1, Snark-1
SnarkHunter 02-04-05, 05:23 PM	Tactics for Moon moon sent, should be fairly straight forward :).
Jindl 02-04-05, 05:34 PM	@T'VAr - Tactics sent for JotHF. @Ash - Working on tactics for the Elder (it would be a little easier if you could post initiative ... pretty please :D) Please be patient, I might not get them out until Saturday morning (EST). Thanks! -Jindl
Arstimis 02-04-05, 06:36 PM	@ Einzelgaenger: Tactics have been sent for Britknee via PM @ Huan: Tactics for En Sidious Deth will be sent later tonight once i get back from dinner, via email Tactics recieved from Pittbull and Xanadu. The fight will be run tonight, saturday, or sunday morning..or a combo of the three. Hopefully sooner than later
Naerdaloth 02-04-05, 09:23 PM	Crude version Tara vs Klaxon up. A good struggle with a few turning points but in the end the equine proved triumphant. Working on a story. In other news, tactics still NOT recieved for Suggang. If i dont recieve them sometime before Sunday i will be running on default
Dalton Onestone 02-04-05, 09:55 PM	. in the end the equine proved triumphant. What a shock!
T'Var 02-04-05, 10:00 PM	Tactics Jindl of the High Forest (Jindl).........................Received Inihe Rotblume (Beldin)................................ ..Received Emad "The Relic" Chagar (MysticMonk2005).......Received GrandElf the Gray (Dalton Onestone)................Received Derth (Vipergtsmk)............................ ...........Received Brandt, Cadman Chival III (MadCowTemplate)....Not Received
T'Var 02-04-05, 10:02 PM	What a shock! ..... read the fight, the only thing my horse did was give me extra speed, didnt even make an attack I wouldnt call that the reason for the triumphant
Zepher 02-04-05, 10:08 PM	@Jindl Tactics sent for Kiyo.
T'Var 02-04-05, 11:03 PM	shocking upset Inihe vs Jindl
Huan 02-04-05, 11:17 PM	@Dalton Tactics recieved for Kwerrok, thank you.
Arstimis 02-04-05, 11:20 PM	@ Huan: Tactics sent for En Sidious Deth via email
Ashenai 02-04-05, 11:29 PM	Tactics sent to Huan and Jindl. Init rolled for Elder vs. Elishar: Elder 15 + 1 = 16 Elishar 6 + 3 = 9 Sorry about the late tactics. Also sorry, Huan, for freezing the quest, I've been horribly busy lately. Don't worry, we'll catch up. :) Jindl, take your time with the tactics, earliest I can run the fight is Sunday anyway.
Arstimis 02-04-05, 11:46 PM	Initiatives for Korn vs The Ripper Korn 14+2=16 The Ripper 10+2=12 (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=Korn_vs._Ripper# 145660) I will start running the fight tomorrow...time for bed for me
OdinTheReaper 02-04-05, 11:52 PM	@Naerdaloth: I talked to Suggang today (he's my best friend in rl) and he said he sent them to you....i will tell him to send them again by pm and email just in case....well if you want me to
OdinTheReaper 02-05-05, 12:11 AM	Scratch that....i found out he resent it.....my bad. That's why you post in here so people dont get worried or confused or both. :thinks:
Snommelp 02-05-05, 12:21 AM	@ Naerdaloth: Falling damage is why I didn't want to shoot at Klaxon until he was on foot. If my tactics were unclear on that point, though, I will accept it and be sure to be more clear next time. Second thing: why such low damage when Tara shot the horse the first time? If it was in sneak attack range, it should be 3 numbers, not 2; if it wasn't in sneak attack range Tara shouldn't have attacked. I also thought Sleep Arrows did lethal damage. Am I mistaken?
T'Var 02-05-05, 12:34 AM	@ Naerdaloth: Falling damage is why I didn't want to shoot at Klaxon until he was on foot. If my tactics were unclear on that point, though, I will accept it and be sure to be more clear next time. Second thing: why such low damage when Tara shot the horse the first time? If it was in sneak attack range, it should be 3 numbers, not 2; if it wasn't in sneak attack range Tara shouldn't have attacked. I also thought Sleep Arrows did lethal damage. Am I mistaken? Sleep Arrow: This +1 arrow is painted white and has white fletching. If it strikes a foe so that it would normally deal damage, it instead bursts into magical energy that deals nonlethal damage (in the same amount as would be lethal damage) and forces the target to make a DC 11 Will save or fall asleep. although i do agree that the first strike should have been for more dmg...unless your sneak attack dice rolled 1's
Snommelp 02-05-05, 12:47 AM	Thanks, T'Var... I'm on my parents' computer, not mine, and for some reason I can't find the SRD on this one. So now the only questionable bit is why Tara shot Klaxon... I thought my tactics looked pretty clear, but then I knew what I intended. If you had read those tactics, T'Var, would you have shot the mounted rider? Hopefully you'll look objectively, not as my opponent.
Dalton Onestone 02-05-05, 12:51 AM	Thanks, T'Var... I'm on my parents' computer, not mine, and for some reason I can't find the SRD on this one. http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm
T'Var 02-05-05, 01:02 AM	Thanks, T'Var... I'm on my parents' computer, not mine, and for some reason I can't find the SRD on this one. So now the only questionable bit is why Tara shot Klaxon... I thought my tactics looked pretty clear, but then I knew what I intended. If you had read those tactics, T'Var, would you have shot the mounted rider? Hopefully you'll look objectively, not as my opponent. honestly it does look by your tactics that your tactics wanted my horse dead before fighting Klaxon himself yes. however I dont think that this would have caused a change, you would have attacked the horse instead of me in round 3, causeing 3 dmg to the horse. i wouldnt have lost a round from being asleep and re-mounting so Klaxon would have gotten the killing blow in a round earlier Also I have the SRD linked in my signature line if you need it
Snommelp 02-05-05, 01:10 AM	honestly it does look by your tactics that your tactics wanted my horse dead before fighting Klaxon himself yes. however I dont think that this would have caused a change, you would have attacked the horse instead of me in round 3, causeing 3 dmg to the horse. i wouldnt have lost a round from being asleep and re-mounting so Klaxon would have gotten the killing blow in a round earlier The only change is it would have saved Tara some money on a Sleep Arrow... what can I say, I'm stingy.
T'Var 02-05-05, 01:16 AM	The only change is it would have saved Tara some money on a Sleep Arrow... what can I say, I'm stingy. yes i agree Tara would not have used the second sleep arrow
Snommelp 02-05-05, 01:26 AM	Doesn't matter too much, either way. Tara worked well in the old Arena, when she could feel safe using expensive equipment every fight. In this Arena, she's become more like a typical campaigning rogue; good for a quick hit and run, but not good for the long haul. I might retire her soon, along with Ala'andor. That will bring me back down to 2 PCs, until I get my troll up and running (which will take a while, with this rate of progression). BTW, I'll try to get Flower vs. Evram up tomorrow. Good thing about taking a trip home from college: no noisy dorm-mates keeping you awake because of paper-thin walls. Bad thing: good chances you'll be bored out of your mind. After I run the fight, my only entertainment will be philosophy homework... Ooh, that reminds me, my other fight (Lora vs. Grakk) is lacking in tactics. If they're not in by the end of the Super-Bowl on Sunday, expect a dull fight; neither has default tactics! I might pull out a fight idea I mentioned earlier: both combatants act as mounts for Kobolds armed with fresh fish!
Einzelgaenger 02-05-05, 01:32 AM	Tactics recieved by both of my gladiators
Beldin 02-05-05, 05:42 AM	@T'Var: Jindl has Dozen trot forward a few steps while beginning to cast from a scroll. Triggering Inihe’s readied action [Longbow 20! 16+8-2-2=20 vs AC 18 Confirmed] 2+5+4+6+6=23dmg Jindl gets a +2 to Ac from pro evil and Inihe gets -4 to attack for being entangled. So the critical would not be confirmed. :weep:
T'Var 02-05-05, 07:01 AM	Jindl has Dozen trot forward a few steps while beginning to cast from a scroll. Triggering Inihe’s readied action [Longbow 20! 16+8-2-2=20 vs AC 18 Confirmed] 2+5+4+6+6=23dmg @T'Var: Jindl gets a +2 to Ac from pro evil and Inihe gets -4 to attack for being entangled. So the critical would not be confirmed. :weep: ahh your right, on the ac that brings his ac up to 20. however the confirmed hit took in the -2 to hit and -4 dex(-2 to hit) into account so it still crit
Beldin 02-05-05, 07:35 AM	Ah, I good confused oce again :) Now I am happy. A good mood help in a physiks-examination...
Caterane 02-05-05, 08:23 AM	Skymoon vs Fenir (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5390413#post5390413) is done. What do we learn from that fight? 1) Casting in fullplate: :nonono: 2) Having no ranged weapon :thumbsdow 3) Crawling tattoo trying to get a horse :allalone: 4) Fighting with +4 melee alone vs an opponoment twice as strong and with warhorse :surrender
Naerdaloth 02-05-05, 08:23 AM	Alright, Suggangs tactics have been recieved... 3 times... @snommelp: when i chose to fire the first arrow at the horse i did it at the further range because i figured that, given the horses speed, by the time it was within sneak range it would be on top of you. but i see that i might have been wrong because you were hidden and it wouldnt go straight for you. anyway, the second time, i shot the rider because it well didnt mater much- either way would have and did result in a short delay. Either 1: the horse falls asleep and rider spends a standard action waking it up. In this case the rider even gets to move 60 ft in same round. or 2, which i did: rider falls asleep, falls off prone, takes damage, and has to spend the entire round recovering (move to stand up, and if he succeeded DC20 ride check could have mounted as free action and still moved but since he didnt it took him another move action) im not sure if waiting for the mount to get closer to deal another 2d6 nonlethal damage would be a huge dif. best case scenario it deals another 12 damage which still doesnt knock it out edit: i did the roll to check and turns out.. it is best case scenario (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=loth4#145703). so this would make the horse 6 subdual to KO. aight i have to leave right now leave anything regarding this development for me later
Huan 02-05-05, 08:36 AM	@Ashenai No worries about the Quest, I understand Tactics for Sivalyn received. Tactics for En Sidious Deth recived. Thank you both, I'm good to go.
Pitlords 02-05-05, 09:53 AM	Well, pairings are ready. My apologies for the lateness. T'Var got four fights (serves him right for asking to be set to <max>), while Caterane and Jindl both got one more than they'd have preferred. If anyone else wants to run fights, Cat and Jindl would both probably be happy to hand one over; I don't know about T'Var. Credit changes: Sindorin, SnarkHunter, and Kaigan have 3 active characters this week. This costs them 1 credit each. T'Var is running 4 fights, which earns him 4 credits. Jindl is running 3 fights, which earns him 3 credits. Cellardweller, Huan, Naerdaloth, Pittbull, and Snommelp are running 2 fights, which earns them 2 credits each. Arstimis, Ashenai, Caterane, Einzelgaenger, Kaigan, MysticMonk2005, and One_Winged_Angel are running 1 fight, which earns them 1 credit each. Ashenai, Caterane, and SnarkHunter earn 2 credits each for running a quest. Ashenai and Caterane earn 1 credit each for board administration. Jindl earns 1 credit for running the World's Largest Dungeon. Huan gets 3 credits for his stories: KoRn vs Necavi, Flower vs Risal Atess, and Jindl of the High Forest vs Rex the Kuldjargh. Kaigan and One_Winged_Angel get 1 credit each for their stories in the Buddha vs. Solmund and Kiyo vs Damon fights, respectively. Total: Huan: +5 credits Ashenai, Caterane, Jindl, T'Var: +4 credits Cellardweller, Naerdaloth, One_Winged_Angel, Pittbull, Snommelp: +2 credits Arstimis, Einzelgaenger, Kaigan, MysticMonk2005, SnarkHunter: +1 credit Sindorin: -1 credit I noticed some mistakes in the credit distribution: T'Var has 3 active characters which costs him 1 credit. T'Var, Huan, and LLMadCow have each one character on a quest, which costs an additional credit each (for going on a quest itself). All -1 credit. This has been corrected. @Scaryfroman: Please send me tactics (email only). I will run the fight today. Cat
Jindl 02-05-05, 10:17 AM	@T'Var - From JotHF's tactics: *Always attempt a Ride check to use my mount for cover when attacked. Is there a reason he didn't attempt this when attacked? It wouldn't make a difference in Rnd 1 (he already had cover) and Rnd 2 when Inihe missed. But a roll of 10 or better would have granted JotHF cover against the arrow in Rnd 3, negating the critical.
Jindl 02-05-05, 10:20 AM	Tactic's recieved for Everybody!! @Ash - Thanks. I'll get them to you this afternoon. -Jindl
T'Var 02-05-05, 10:50 AM	@T'Var - From JotHF's tactics: Is there a reason he didn't attempt this when attacked? It wouldn't make a difference in Rnd 1 (he already had cover) and Rnd 2 when Inihe missed. But a roll of 10 or better would have granted JotHF cover against the arrow in Rnd 3, negating the critical. Cover: You can react instantly to drop down and hang alongside your mount, using it as cover. You can’t attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover. If you fail your Ride check, you don’t get the cover benefit. This usage does not take an action. since Inihe tactics was to ready vs your action, you were in the middle of casting a full round action spell when he fired. your action was to cast, and you cant use mounted cover while casting
Jindl 02-05-05, 10:54 AM	since Inihe tactics was to ready vs your action, you were in the middle of casting a full round action spell when he fired. your action was to cast, and you cant use mounted cover while casting So does that mean JotHF would lose the spell because he used his mount for cover? Keep in mind that readied attacks occur just before the action that triggers them.
T'Var 02-05-05, 10:56 AM	So does that mean JotHF would lose the spell because he used his mount for cover? I took the reading as you cant attempt the use while casting, not that you can choose to fail your spell and gain cover
Jindl 02-05-05, 11:04 AM	I took the reading as you cant attempt the use while casting, not that you can choose to fail your spell and gain cover Well, I think this is the first time it has ever come up in the CoCo. So think on it and let me know what you decide. If you decide that he would drop the spell to take cover (I did say *Always*), then I guess he would lose his summoned swarm scroll but still be alive to try Step 3 (because Inihe is entangled). A note on this: JotHF would definately not attempt a Ride check for cover in Rnd 1, because he already had cover from Inihe (there's nothing to gain by it). And in Rnd 2, he was drinking a potion (which is apparently unaffected by the using your mount for cover action). So it changes nothing but the end of the fight. Of course, before we get into any more debate, you could make the Ride check and see if JotHF would have gained cover anyway (because if he fails the Ride check, then the critical is definately confirmed, and this discussion can be delegated to the Elder forum.) -Jindl
One_Winged_Angel 02-05-05, 11:09 AM	I've got good news and bad news. The good news: I have recieved tactics from cellardweller. The bad news: Its for the wrong gladiator! AND you got me confused with Mystic! :headexplo :censored: :headexplo That is a crime punishable by death! http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/sarge/Guillotine_anim.gif I'll foreward the tactics to him.
SnarkHunter 02-05-05, 11:11 AM	@Cat: Not that its absolutely necessary but Moon-moon's attacks with the lance were at +8 because he was mounted vs. a medium opponent.
Jindl 02-05-05, 01:10 PM	@T'Var - I know I forgot mention it in tactics, but JotHF has ranks in the Autohypnosis skill. Would it be okay to request that JotHF tries an Autohypnosis check to remain conscious at -7 hps? If he succeeds, he could heal with his scroll: cure serious wounds, as indicated in tactics.
Kaigan 02-05-05, 01:38 PM	Rook vs. Solmund is up. There was quite a bit of luck was rolled in the fight, and the outcome was very unpredictable, it coulda gone anyway.
Jindl 02-05-05, 01:53 PM	@Ashenai - Tactics PM'd for the Elder.
Aramil Dunskar 02-05-05, 02:21 PM	Ah.. did I miss tatic deadlines yet? Cause I was sick all week and today is the only day so far that I was able to check the site, so if I did oh well, if not let me know please. Thanks -Aramil
Snommelp 02-05-05, 02:27 PM	Yes, Aramil, you missed the deadline. However, your opponent, McTemplate, has also not sent tactics yet. I've given both of you a little lee-way. Just send your tactics soon. And before you think to thank me, I am doing this strictly for selfish reasons, those reasons being that running a fight without even default tactics to work with would be quite boring.
Aramil Dunskar 02-05-05, 02:33 PM	Heh, alright well I just sent tatics to you cause I though I was still on time after I saw when Jindl sent in his tactics. Oh well... :embarrass -Aramil
Snommelp 02-05-05, 02:48 PM	Don't worry, your tactics aren't too late, the deadline is usually the end of the day Friday.
T'Var 02-05-05, 10:10 PM	@T'Var - I know I forgot mention it in tactics, but JotHF has ranks in the Autohypnosis skill. Would it be okay to request that JotHF tries an Autohypnosis check to remain conscious at -7 hps? If he succeeds, he could heal with his scroll: cure serious wounds, as indicated in tactics. Autohypnosis does not allow you to remain conscious it only allows You can attempt to subconsciously prevent yourself from dying and If reduced to 0 hit points (disabled), you can make an Autohypnosis check. If successful, you can take a normal action while at 0 hit points without taking 1 point of damage.
Naerdaloth 02-05-05, 10:26 PM	Hm. Due to the slowness of the boards right now and the fact I have the next couple hours free.. I'll start running Shivock vs Suggang. Expect it up in an hour or so.
One_Winged_Angel 02-05-05, 11:05 PM	@Cellardwellar: Still no tactics. I would like them in by tommorrow if possible.
cellardweller 02-05-05, 11:10 PM	I mailed them yesterday (Both Janelle's and Damon's would have hit you at approx the same time). They should still siting in my sent items at home. I'll re-forward them when I get back from work in ~4hrs.
One_Winged_Angel 02-05-05, 11:34 PM	I mailed them yesterday (Both Janelle's and Damon's would have hit you at approx the same time). They should still siting in my sent items at home. I'll re-forward them when I get back from work in ~4hrs. I think there was a mix up. See, dispite what he may wish, I am NOT MYSTICMONK!!! I think you sent the tactics for the fight he was running to me and the tactics for the fight I was running to him. BTW, confuse me with Mystic again, I will personally hunt you down and vest my vengence upon you. J00 \/\/1||_|_ |\|0 ph33|2
scaryfroman 02-05-05, 11:48 PM	ugh. Sorry for being late with tactics, Caterane. This honestly is the first time I have been able to touch a computer for more than a minute since wednesday evening. I am sending the tactics for Dagrar now. EDIT: Hmm. Hotmail isn't working. Great. What should I do?
cellardweller 02-06-05, 12:09 AM	BTW, confuse me with Mystic again, I will personally hunt you down and vest my vengence upon you. J00 \/\/1||_|_ |\|0 ph33|2 Take 2 of these and everything will be fine :cool: http://www.lifesvigor.com/product-images/053111.jpg
Dalton Onestone 02-06-05, 12:44 AM	vest my vengence upon you. Is that like making somebody wear a hair shirt if they fire you before you get all your stock options?
One_Winged_Angel 02-06-05, 01:00 AM	Is that like making somebody wear a hair shirt if they fire you before you get all your stock options? Actually, its olde English (note the e on the end of olde) for "forcably giving something to someone." Vesting anger, wrath, hatred, whatever. @Cellardwellar: *Put pills in mouth, (Gulp).* Argh! What is this? Poison! I...must...finish...fight...ugh!
cellardweller 02-06-05, 01:59 AM	Sent Jannelle's tactics again, :lightbulb: then realised that you needed Damon's and sent his too.
Dalton Onestone 02-06-05, 02:28 AM	There's an unaddressed concern in the 1/19 fights thread below, in case anybody wants to do more quality control on the rules and/or pitlording. Also, I'm going to put a weird reversal into Kwerrock's char sheet this week -- I'm going to cancel a sale-for-loss. Since it was for 75 gp and he had 161.5 gp left over, I figure it fits under the "It's OK to change if you didn't use it" rule.
T'Var 02-06-05, 10:28 AM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5300310&postcount=1193 This is really late, but I have a question on Naerdeloth vs. Elishar at the link above. Elishar successfully cast Sleep on Naerdeloth, then unsuccessfully CdGed him with a crossbow. On the next turn Naerdeloth raged and killed him. It's not immediately clear from the writeup whether he stood up first before doing so. But shouldn't Elishar have taken a 5ft. step backwards after the failed CDG? In that case Naerdeloth couldn't have reached him the next round, and Elishar would have had one more shot to try to do him in. True, the rage would have taken Naerdeloth's HP up from 4 to 10, but with a Scorching Ray Elishar would still have had a good chance of killing him. the movement would not have helped you. as the following events can happen in a turn Move Action: standing from prone Free Action: since the move action did not actually move you anywhere, he can take a 5ft step to follow you Free Action: Rage Standard Action: Attack
One_Winged_Angel 02-06-05, 11:23 AM	Sent Jannelle's tactics again, :lightbulb: then realised that you needed Damon's and sent his too. :D You had me worried when you send me Jannelle's tactics again. I could have almost thought you did it to taunt me. ;)
Kaigan 02-06-05, 11:45 AM	I've seen quite a bit of this happening in fights, and I was curious if it was wrong to do it. @T'Var: In your fight, you had Grand Elf enter with a scroll of fox cunning and a scroll of mirror image. My understanding is that to cast a scroll you need one hand free. If he is holding two scolls then he is unable to cast one. If also seen this in cases where the gladiator was holding a weapon, and drew a scroll and cast it. So I'm just wondering if you are able to do this. I could be wrong however...
Beldin 02-06-05, 11:58 AM	You are not able to do that.
Dalton Onestone 02-06-05, 12:00 PM	EDIT: Reusing this note for a color test the movement would not have helped you. as the following events can happen in a turn Move Action: standing from prone Free Action: since the move action did not actually move you anywhere, he can take a 5ft step to follow you Free Action: Rage Standard Action: Attack Thanks. Not my characters, but thanks. It confirms my theory that one should CDG with a melee weapon, even a non-proficient one. Now, as to the GrandElf/Derth fight -- first of all, thanks for running it! Nice, straightforward win. Even so, for future reference there are two things from my tactics that you didn't use that I'd like to ask about. 1. Can GrandElf tell for sure whether Derth was raging? 2. My thought was that for extra damage on the CdG of the snorer, GrandElf would dismount, letting his horse get in a full attack too, even though a full attack is not a CdG. Obviously, it didn't matter, with the nice rolls you made. But is there a reason why that wouldn't have worked?
Jindl 02-06-05, 12:07 PM	@T'Var - Oops. I guess I should have read Autohypnosis a little more closely... Sorry :D -Jindl
T'Var 02-06-05, 12:28 PM	Thanks. Not my characters, but thanks. It confirms my theory that one should CDG with a melee weapon, even a non-proficient one. Now, as to the GrandElf/Derth fight -- first of all, thanks for running it! Nice, straightforward win. Even so, for future reference there are two things from my tactics that you didn't use that I'd like to ask about. 1. Can GrandElf tell for sure whether Derth was raging? 2. My thought was that for extra damage on the CdG of the snorer, GrandElf would dismount, letting his horse get in a full attack too, even though a full attack is not a CdG. Obviously, it didn't matter, with the nice rolls you made. But is there a reason why that wouldn't have worked? in my mind a rage is pretty visable, but there are no rules stating that since you wanted to CDG the same time as your familiar i made both your CDGs happen, if for some reason Derth had not died either from the dmg or fort saves then your mount would have gotten his attacks also. but since the damage was more than enough to seal the deal there was no reason to make the extra rolls
Dalton Onestone 02-06-05, 12:37 PM	in my mind a rage is pretty visable, but there are no rules stating that since you wanted to CDG the same time as your familiar i made both your CDGs happen, if for some reason Derth had not died either from the dmg or fort saves then your mount would have gotten his attacks also. but since the damage was more than enough to seal the deal there was no reason to make the extra rolls Thanks! I hoped that's what it was, rather than another misunderstanding of the rules on my part, but I wanted to check.
T'Var 02-06-05, 12:40 PM	I've seen quite a bit of this happening in fights, and I was curious if it was wrong to do it. @T'Var: In your fight, you had Grand Elf enter with a scroll of fox cunning and a scroll of mirror image. My understanding is that to cast a scroll you need one hand free. If he is holding two scolls then he is unable to cast one. If also seen this in cases where the gladiator was holding a weapon, and drew a scroll and cast it. So I'm just wondering if you are able to do this. I could be wrong however... ahh quite true my bad for not detaling the action, GrandElf actually moved back, free action to drop one scroll and cast the other. round 2 move action to pickup the scroll and cast from it i wrote the actions backwards
T'Var 02-06-05, 12:51 PM	Brandt, Cadman Chival III (MadCowTemplate) I still have no tactics from you If i dont have any by midnight board time I will run using default
Dalton Onestone 02-06-05, 01:27 PM	ahh quite true my bad for not detaling the action, GrandElf actually moved back, free action to drop one scroll and cast the other. round 2 move action to pickup the scroll and cast from it i wrote the actions backwards Whoa. Please take this more slowly. It's new to me, and since both my gladiators are heavy scroll users ... Are you guys saying that casting from a scroll requires both hands? (One to hold it, one to make the remaining somatic gestures needed to complete the spell.)
Beldin 02-06-05, 02:12 PM	Yes, you need two hands if you want to cast a spell with somatic components from a scroll.
Einzelgaenger 02-07-05, 04:42 AM	Va'ria Theladrais (Sindorin) vs Britknee the Beautifuly Bothersome (Arstimis) is up.
Beldin 02-07-05, 05:53 AM	@Einzelganger: Brit: Casts resistance, readies against condition (hear spell=run). Casting a spell is a standard action and readying is a standard action, too. Two standard actions are one to much ;)
LLMadCow 02-07-05, 06:01 AM	Iminir vs Naerdaloth has been posted. I look forward to hearing what people think of my story. Is it okay? I wanted it to be cool, and I hope that I didn't go too far for anyones taste.... LL Edit: Fixed errors in fight.
cellardweller 02-07-05, 06:30 AM	I have just accidentally deleted both Kaigan's and Xanadu's tactics while attempting to move them to my tactics folder. Can you please resend them. Unless you can get them to me within the next couple of hours, Uhmentarymster the Old (Caterane) vs Rayos Atess (Kaigan) and Aloran Windseer (One_Winged_Angel) vs Necavi Omnes (Xanadu) will both be late. Deepest apologies to all involved parties.
One_Winged_Angel 02-07-05, 09:43 AM	I have just accidentally deleted both Kaigan's and Xanadu's tactics while attempting to move them to my tactics folder. Can you please resend them. Unless you can get them to me within the next couple of hours, Uhmentarymster the Old (Caterane) vs Rayos Atess (Kaigan) and Aloran Windseer (One_Winged_Angel) vs Necavi Omnes (Xanadu) will both be late. Deepest apologies to all involved parties. Re-submitted tactics. My fight will be up later today. In the meantime, gotta go. School time.
Kaigan 02-07-05, 11:55 AM	@Pittbull: My only concern, is that I didn't need to charge, I could have double moved and attacked at the end of the double move, as my lance is a reach weapon. Now if Cat's movement plan was so clever to completely not allow even that, then mad props to him.
Pittbull 02-07-05, 12:04 PM	I'm writing in an internet-coffe-shop: Yes, I understood it like that I think it is possible to avoid melee too. But let's hear what Cat has to say about this topic. Perhaps it takes longer if I track the whole movement. It took allready 3 hours in Rl to post this one. I'll be back tomorrow....
Arstimis 02-07-05, 12:09 PM	Va'ria Theladrais (Sindorin) vs Britknee the Beautifuly Bothersome (Arstimis) is up. Umm..wow...there are two, rather large mistakes in this game that do make a big difference 1. There is no way Va'ria would be able to target a fireball spell on me with a huge central obstacle between us Round 1: Brit: Runs towards center of arena, sends horse towards Va'ria. (MS: 2+4-20=-14) Horse: Runs towards Va'ria. Va'ria: Sees horse, pinpoints Brit(List: 17+9=26). Casts fireball from scroll CL check succeeds (roll 13). Reflex save: 3+4=7 fails, damage 20. Moves to interpose a barrier between her and the horse. EoR: Brit:5/25 hp 1,-1,0 Horse: -10,-14,0 Va'ria: -16,0,0 2. As soon as Va'ria cast lightning bolt she would become visble and my horse would be able to see her, so my horse should have been ran at her and gotten some attacks in. 3. I have a brooch of shielding so magic missles cant do any damage to me...unless they get up to 101 in damage...which isnt happening anytime soon Round 5: Brit: Continues readying as per instructions. Horse: Walks over to investigate. Va'ria: Shrugs and casts magic missle from memory, Brit's condition goes off, but it doesn't matter, as MM is unerring, damage: 3+3+1+1=8 Brit gurgles. As he has no allies to revive him w/ a CLW, pronounced dead. Oh, and britknee is a female...not a he/him or anyother form of male I guess there were 3 mistakes i saw Casting a spell is a standard action and readying is a standard action, too. Two standard actions are one to much it doesnt matter too much as brit had the time to ready in a later round
Sindorin 02-07-05, 12:36 PM	I see no brooch of shielding. Wait, yes, there it is. but your character cannot use mine. ;)
Caterane 02-07-05, 12:58 PM	@Pittbull: My only concern, is that I didn't need to charge, I could have double moved and attacked at the end of the double move, as my lance is a reach weapon. Now if Cat's movement plan was so clever to completely not allow even that, then mad props to him. Actually I did send a plan to avoid melee at all. Unfortunately, it is written in german (so that Pittbull understands it :D) but it is based on the seven-folded path :eek: Several things assure that I won't get into melee. First of all, your primary goal was to charge my horse which means making sure that you get into a charge position. I wrote several counters to this strategy (for example, readying to move away just before you arrive, ini resets, and I move further away; or making a diagonal run closely past the central obstacle while your run line is blocked by the central pillar, etc). You didn't describe how you want to make sure to charge so Pittbull (should have) used the most straightforward approach. "Should have" because it takes a lot of time to find out how to counter these anti-melee tactic and please note that every single one would be full pitlord adaption! What Pittbull did instead was giving you the knowledge that you cannot charge from round 1 on instead of making you find that out by yourself. Even then, your plan B was to use the crossbow instead. By the time you would have run out of bolts (way after round 18), your horse should've been dead. And note that countering my many ride patterns would have needed complicated maneuvers from your side involving ready actions and such which far surpasses your sent tactic. I agree that Aeiou should win if one looks at our respective stats but as you can see, tactics do matter. Fortunately, I am now lvl 4 and have a bit more hitpoints :)
T'Var 02-07-05, 01:49 PM	Well, I think this is the first time it has ever come up in the CoCo. So think on it and let me know what you decide. If you decide that he would drop the spell to take cover (I did say *Always*), then I guess he would lose his summoned swarm scroll but still be alive to try Step 3 (because Inihe is entangled). A note on this: JotHF would definately not attempt a Ride check for cover in Rnd 1, because he already had cover from Inihe (there's nothing to gain by it). And in Rnd 2, he was drinking a potion (which is apparently unaffected by the using your mount for cover action). So it changes nothing but the end of the fight. Of course, before we get into any more debate, you could make the Ride check and see if JotHF would have gained cover anyway (because if he fails the Ride check, then the critical is definately confirmed, and this discussion can be delegated to the Elder forum.) -Jindl I used the weekend talked to my gaming group and read thru a couple rules thinking on this event. My ruling is going to stand, the reasoning behind this is once you are committed to any action in the game you must follow thru. if you begin a charge attack, and your opponent had a readied action to move out of your path, you dont get to change tactics and double move around a corner you may choose to only charge 10 feet instead of the whole 60, but you must use the charge action. in this event Jindl Committed to casting a spell and while it doesnt use any action to attempt to gain cover you must complete the action, and You can’t attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover. as per the skill
Kaigan 02-07-05, 02:08 PM	@Cat: All I have to say is that I hope you didn't lose any sleep on planing those tactics, I know I wouldn't have. I didn't expect you to go into such detail for my fight. Haha, well I guess I should have probably guessed that since you are Cat. Oh well, next time I fight one of your characters, I will sit down and plan my attack approach, and we'll see who will be the better tactician. The reason why my tactics were not detailed was because I am really busy. University takes a lot of time especially with midterms, so next time, next time we'll see. Lol.
Jindl 02-07-05, 02:23 PM	I used the weekend talked to my gaming group and read thru a couple rules thinking on this event. My ruling is going to stand, the reasoning behind this is once you are committed to any action in the game you must follow thru. if you begin a charge attack, and your opponent had a readied action to move out of your path, you dont get to change tactics and double move around a corner you may choose to only charge 10 feet instead of the whole 60, but you must use the charge action. in this event Jindl Committed to casting a spell and while it doesnt use any action to attempt to gain cover you must complete the action, and You can’t attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover. as per the skill Fair enough. On a sidenote: Since JotHF was in the middle of casting the scroll: summon swarm when he was crit'd, the casting was interrupted and the scroll was lost. So it should be added to the list of items used in the fight. -Jindl
Arstimis 02-07-05, 03:46 PM	I see no brooch of shielding. Wait, yes, there it is. but your character cannot use mine. ;) what...i have my own as well. so there :P wait...what the heck. i knew i gave both my characters brooch's of shielding....oh well sorry about that confusion. but still there is the other two points there that need to be addressed anyone else think something is wrong about those two other points
Sindorin 02-07-05, 04:18 PM	It's alright, it can't be as bad as whenever I forgot to buy crossbow bolts and said in my tactics to shoot the person. That was interesting. On a side note about the fight - If my current win persists and the result does not change, does Va'ria still get only 900 exp? Or does she get more because Britknee had her horse with her? I was thinking there was a 900 exp cap to a ecl 3 fight, but either way I was just wondering how the rules would affect this.
Caterane 02-07-05, 04:41 PM	Buddha vs Dagrar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5405375#post5405375) is finished. Since Scaryfroman didn't send any tactics (I waited till now) the fight has been run with default tactics... oh wait, they were missing too :rolleyes: @Kaigan: Muahahahaha @Sindorin: No, the horse rule or any other new rule won't be enacted before the FAQ aren't finished.
Arstimis 02-07-05, 06:16 PM	Oh, and another thing about my fight. Can someone explain this Brit: Runs towards center of arena, sends horse towards Va'ria. (MS: 2+4-20=-14) Horse: Runs towards Va'ria. Va'ria: Sees horse, pinpoints Brit(List: 17+9=26). How in the world does someone get a 17+9=26 on there listen check, listening to something 115 ft away, and through 15 ft of stone, and being able to pinpoint that person. Nevermind the fact that the fireball thrown that rounds can in no way even come close to damaging britknee oh..and why did the pitlord roll a MS check for me when i didnt ask to move silently Also, when Va'ria cast expedition retreat my horse would have gotten a listen check to find her, the same when Va'ria was running away, so i really dont think my horse would be so lost.
One_Winged_Angel 02-07-05, 07:07 PM	Damon vs. Boraxx is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5406388&postcount=1252) Be aware: I was bored when I wrote the story. Sorry for the rambling.
Dalton Onestone 02-07-05, 07:32 PM	Damon vs. Boraxx is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5406388&postcount=1252) Be aware: I was bored when I wrote the story. Sorry for the rambling. My huge question about that fight is -- if you paralyze a mounted character, and his mount runs away carrying him (which is the default action), how do you CdG him? It logically should be possible to base him, then match speeds and CdG him, but it's not clear how to do that within the strict turn-taking rules. I don't think you addressed this in running the fight.
SnarkHunter 02-07-05, 07:33 PM	A perennial complaint from the Buddha: I requested 3 1PP fire rays not 1 3PP fire ray... Not complaining per se, I just suppose I need to make that clearer. *goes back to Zactor's Quest*
One_Winged_Angel 02-07-05, 07:38 PM	My huge question about that fight is -- if you paralyze a mounted character, and his mount runs away carrying him (which is the default action), how do you CdG him? It logically should be possible to base him, then match speeds and CdG him, but it's not clear how to do that within the strict turn-taking rules. I don't think you addressed this in running the fight. Simple: He requested the horse not run, but defend him. Read his tactics.
Einzelgaenger 02-07-05, 07:46 PM	Umm..wow...there are two, rather large mistakes in this game that do make a big difference 1. There is no way Va'ria would be able to target a fireball spell on me with a huge central obstacle between us 2. As soon as Va'ria cast lightning bolt she would become visble and my horse would be able to see her, so my horse should have been ran at her and gotten some attacks in. 3. I have a brooch of shielding so magic missles cant do any damage to me...unless they get up to 101 in damage...which isnt happening anytime soon Oh, and britknee is a female...not a he/him or anyother form of male I guess there were 3 mistakes i saw it doesnt matter too much as brit had the time to ready in a later round 1. She could not target you, but the pinpointing let her know exactly where you were, and she could target the square right next to you (I already confirmed this w/ graph paper and LOS prog) 2. There was not LOS between the horse and her, and even if the horse did come over, it could not have attacked that round due to barrier, and if it did come into adjacent range, Va'ria would have 5 foot stepped before MMing. sidenote: what is a horse's int? 2? i'd think even a combat trained horse really wouldn't know what to do if the target just dissapeared. 3. already dealt with. as to the MS check: whether or not you're trying to, everyone gets an MS check whenever it's appropriate, since it's an opposed roll, there's gotta be something for the listen check to contest again.
Snommelp 02-07-05, 07:53 PM	Evram vs. Flower is up, only three or four days later than promised. I really shouldn't promise early fights; I never seem to pull through.
Arstimis 02-07-05, 07:59 PM	1. She could not target you, but the pinpointing let her know exactly where you were, and she could target the square right next to you (I already confirmed this w/ graph paper and LOS prog) It is impossible for her to get an LOS with the huge central obstacle in the middle, or even to the square next to mine. I've tried to figure it out, but it doesnt work from where both gladiators were. Besides, it was physically impossible for her to pinpoint me, as i stated in a later post. 2. There was not LOS between the horse and her, and even if the horse did come over, it could not have attacked that round due to barrier, and if it did come into adjacent range, Va'ria would have 5 foot stepped before MMing. sidenote: what is a horse's int? 2? i'd think even a combat trained horse really wouldn't know what to do if the target just dissapeared. The horse does have ears. And if the horse hears something other than me, im sure it would move toward it, then as she was running away the horse would have a good chance to hear that as well. Also, the horse has a 50 ft movement so it could have double moved and still attacked Va'ria
SnarkHunter 02-07-05, 07:59 PM	Evram vs. Flower is up, only three or four days later than promised. I really shouldn't promise early fights; I never seem to pull through. Eh better late then never. A few problems with it though; 1) The vigor added 20 temp hitpoints not 5. 2) Did I manifest only a 1PP Fire ray at the dog? 3) Why not try to dismount as a free action as per the ride skill?
Arstimis 02-07-05, 08:05 PM	Va'ria: Shrugs and casts magic missle from memory, Brit's condition goes off, but it doesn't matter, as MM is unerring, damage: 3+3+1+1=8 Brit gurglesNow let me show you something from the SRD about the seeming unerring aim of the Magic Missle The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat or has less than total cover or total concealment. Specific parts of a creature can’t be singled out. Inanimate objects are not damaged by the spell. By my tactics, I would have got into total concealment right when i heard her, and then she would have lost that spell as well
Snommelp 02-07-05, 08:07 PM	@ Snarkhunter: 1) I checked, and ML only effects length, not amount of HP. You need extra PP for that. I'm not sure how the stones work, but that extra PP wasn't listed. 2) Yeah, you only manifested a 1 PP fire ray. I figured since there were two dogs and you had 4 pp left, you would probably only spend 2 pp per dog. If you want that extra 1 pp on the ray, I rolled it: 4 more damage. And, now that I think about it, I tihnk I forgot to add the damage to the dog. I'll do that now. 3) When did you want the fast dismount? After you were at 0 hp, I wasn't sure if a fast dismount wouldn't be too strenuous.
SnarkHunter 02-07-05, 08:17 PM	@Snom: Not sure where it is in the SRD but on page 158 of the XPH: Powers stored in power completion items are usually not augmented because the manifester level of such an item is assumed to be the minimum necessary to manifest the stored power. However an item's description may specify otherwise (some power stones have manifester levels higher then the minimum required to manifest the stored power, and are then assumed to be augmented as well).
Snommelp 02-07-05, 08:23 PM	Thanks, Snark. I believe I should keep the outcome as-is, though, because Flower still had 4 potential hippogriffs, which would have destroyed Evram. Unless you really think it should be continued.
SnarkHunter 02-07-05, 08:37 PM	Um, I kind of would. Odds are decent I could outlast the hippogrifs, and Dawn has a decent chance to take down a horse. The other thing I just noticed: Casting from a scroll does not give the summon the benifit of the feat. That only happens if they're summoned through a staff or such.
Dalton Onestone 02-07-05, 08:41 PM	Simple: He requested the horse not run, but defend him. Read his tactics. Even when he's paralyzed and in the saddle? That seems like a pretty foolish choice, and makes me wonder why he expressed a great hope that he wouldn't fall out of the saddle if paralyzed. Or are you saying that having the Defend trick active negates the natural tendency for a warhorse to bear its unconscious rider away from melee combat?
Caterane 02-07-05, 08:56 PM	@Snark: you wrote "1 PP energy ray surged to 3 PP thus effective Manifester level 5" :confused: So either you just mixed up surged with augmented, or you completely miscalculated the manifester level. I thought such a smart boy as you surely won't request to manifest ML 5 rays with 1 PP :P Regarding Britknee vs Varia... Round 1: Britney must point at a target in order to make her horse attack. Besides, it is a move action with a Dc10 handle animal check. There's also no way the horse could run to (-10/-14) nor can Brittknee run to (-1/1) because both have no unobstructed line. Varia's listen check is made at -11 because of the distance so it is 15 vs -14, still easily pinpointed but as I said, Brittknee cannot be at that spot in round 1. Einzelgaenger, please rerun the fight from there on and keep thematic rolls (like the reflex save for the fireball, or the damage) in case they are later needed. Some additional notes: a listen DC to hear spellcasting is Dc0 minus distance (minus 20 to pinpoint). The horse has scent but neither the seek nor track trick so it does not know how to find Varia. I also agree that an int 2 horse does not realize someone went invisible.
Arstimis 02-07-05, 09:01 PM	@Snark: you wrote "1 PP energy ray surged to 3 PP thus effective Manifester level 5" :confused: So either you just mixed up surged with augmented, or you completely miscalculated the manifester level. I thought such a smart boy as you surely won't request to manifest ML 5 rays with 1 PP :P Regarding Britknee vs Varia... Round 1: Britney must point at a target in order to make her horse attack. Besides, it is a move action with a Dc10 handle animal check. There's also no way the horse could run to (-10/-14) nor can Brittknee run to (-1/1) because both have no unobstructed line. Varia's listen check is made at -11 because of the distance so it is 15 vs -14, still easily pinpointed but as I said, Brittknee cannot be at that spot in round 1. Einzelgaenger, please rerun the fight from there on and keep thematic rolls (like the reflex save for the fireball, or the damage) in case they are later needed. Some additional notes: a listen DC to hear spellcasting is Dc0 minus distance (minus 20 to pinpoint). The horse has scent but neither the seek nor track trick so it does not know how to find Varia. I also agree that an int 2 horse does not realize someone went invisible. Well, i guess the horse would be staying with me during the fight then and defending me, as it makes the most sense. if it is rerun Also, i thought there might be another -15 to listen for it being through a stone wall...the obstacle. am i wrong about this..i kinda wanna get my rules straight in case any of this comes up in a fight i do in the future. I did not say the horse would know the enemy went invisible, but seeing something dissappear then run by you, i think would cause the horse to follow it..but that doesnt matter..as it wouldnt get to that point in the game, because the horse cant get to where it was.
Snommelp 02-07-05, 09:10 PM	Um, I kind of would. Odds are decent I could outlast the hippogrifs, and Dawn has a decent chance to take down a horse. Alright, it shall be done. Of course, unless the round where you are no longer at 0 changes dramatically, you will be at 2 hp when we pick up (and yes, I will be continuing from where you were droppoed to 0). Expect the extended fight up soon; if it's not, expect me to beg someone else to take my other fight.
Einzelgaenger 02-07-05, 09:17 PM	oh garg, misread the MM desc, i thought it said Fine, changes are as follows: doesn't cast that MM as she knows you're gonna duck around. drinks potion of invisibility to animals. casts blindness, save failed (rolled 3) at which point you walk over and swing your sword at air(didn't pinpoint w/ listen, rolled a d4 to choose which square to attack), and are magic missled.
Arstimis 02-07-05, 09:32 PM	oh garg, misread the MM desc, i thought it said Fine, changes are as follows: doesn't cast that MM as she knows you're gonna duck around. drinks potion of invisibility to animals. casts blindness, save failed (rolled 3) at which point you walk over and swing your sword at air(didn't pinpoint w/ listen, rolled a d4 to choose which square to attack), and are magic missled. Oh ...a lot of thought went into fixing this...I am definately not dead for a couple reasons Magic Missle cant do 25 damage to kill me, as it was stated earlier, the fireball spell would not have worked when/how it was done How can she "know" that I am going to duck around. You even said she just shrugged it off when you wrote the fight. When she cast blindness/deafness my horse would have attacked her before she had a chance to try magic missle, because my horse would be defending me Also, i have a feeling the me getting full concealment from blindness/deafness works like getting full concealment would for any other spell Ok, during the time after she cast lightning bold, and while she was drinking a potion of invisibility to animals, I would have deafinately raged and charged her with my sword...not just sit there Do you even care about pitlording? EDIT: I just re-read my last couple posts and realize they may seem a little...vicious. Im sorry if they do. That is not at all what i want it to sound like. I just want a fair fight is all
Snommelp 02-07-05, 09:37 PM	The fight is being completed, Snark and T'Var. However, there is something that I would like to get an opinion on, preferably from someone other than my two combatants. It involves something Snark said earlier: The other thing I just noticed: Casting from a scroll does not give the summon the benifit of the feat. That only happens if they're summoned through a staff or such. I re-read the feat, and it looks like it works for any and all summon spells. Am I mistaken, and if so where is the proof? Also, concerning the section of the XPH Snark quoted about stones and assumed augmentation. How does this effect his ML 9 power stone of summoning?
Snommelp 02-07-05, 10:15 PM	I don't mean to sound impatient, but I don't think I can re-finish Flower vs. Evram until those two concerns are adressed, and I am loathe to start Grakk vs. Lora while I still have an unfinished fight to deal with.
Jindl 02-07-05, 10:16 PM	The fight is being completed, Snark and T'Var. However, there is something that I would like to get an opinion on, preferably from someone other than my two combatants. It involves something Snark said earlier: I re-read the feat, and it looks like it works for any and all summon spells. Am I mistaken, and if so where is the proof? Also, concerning the section of the XPH Snark quoted about stones and assumed augmentation. How does this effect his ML 9 power stone of summoning? There was a big discussion about applying Augment Summoning to scrolls. The final decision (agreed on by all the Elders and the 3 GM's at the time) was that it does not apply to scrolls. I'm not sure where to point you to find the proof. It probabaly needs to be added to the FAQ. As for the automatic augmentation on powerstones, Snark is correct (he always is in matters regarding psionics.) His ML9 astral construct stone would be manifested as if a ML9 manifester augmented it to cost 9 pps. -Jindl
Snommelp 02-07-05, 10:23 PM	EDIT: Nevermind.
Huan 02-07-05, 10:33 PM	My fights are done: Kwerrok the Quiet vs Sivalyn Hazeweaver (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5407813) Short version: An even match-up, and a fight with several close calls. The Luck domain proved not to be so lucky, however. Sokai Calanis vs En Sidious Deth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5407841) Short version: A hilarious fight, as both combatants had the same plan against each other, and both suceeded. It came down to the rolls, really (I had to make a judgement call about the whips, though). Stories tomorrow. :)
SnarkHunter 02-07-05, 10:37 PM	@Jindl: Well not every time. Most of the time, yeah, but that's only because I really like Psionics. As for where we got that ruling I'm pretty sure it goes back to a discussion we (or the CO board) had about scribing scrolls. Like, would a scroll scribed by someone with the Spell Focus feat be affected by it, what if the scriber had a higher int and so on. In fact I'm pretty sure that this was settled by the Sage in one of the FAQs last year. @Snommelp: I just want to say I appreciate your wanting to get this correct and I hope its not going to be a burdon on you. Thanks for looking at the fight, however it turns out. @T'var: your correct about the charging in the quest, that couldn't happen. I can't edit it tonight but I'll correct it early tomorrow and continue from your instructions. My guess is that we'll end up with 2 more dead infernal orcs.
Snommelp 02-07-05, 10:45 PM	@ Snarkhunter: you forget, everything I do has selfish motivations. In this case, I've got a few. Firstly, I don't want a similar mistake to happen to me. Secondly, I'm bored. It's snowing here, and while I like snow, I much prefer it on the ground to in my face. BTW, your horse just died, and the dog and wolf who weren't summoned are hounding you, so it'll be fun to see if Evram can manage to cast that ML 9 AC.
One_Winged_Angel 02-07-05, 11:05 PM	Even when he's paralyzed and in the saddle? That seems like a pretty foolish choice, and makes me wonder why he expressed a great hope that he wouldn't fall out of the saddle if paralyzed. Or are you saying that having the Defend trick active negates the natural tendency for a warhorse to bear its unconscious rider away from melee combat? Actually, I never showed his roll to stay in the saddle. Lemme see... X.X 98. So, he's on the ground. Well, it was worth the shot, but the horse can't grab the rider. Unless it bit him...
Dalton Onestone 02-07-05, 11:21 PM	@Huan, Thanks for the running the fight, and I realize I sent you tactics that gave you a lot of leeway. However, I don't understand the tactical choices you made for Kwerrock in Rounds 4 and 5. The situation in Round 4 was: Kwerrock's horse was getting torn apart by a wolverine (9 HP remaining) Sivalyn was within mounted charge range. You didn't have Kwerrock make a mounted charge against Sivalyn, which could easily have won the fight in one round, given the available luck reroll for the attack or damage. At 9 HP, there is no way the horse would have succumbed to the wolverine's AoO. You also didn't have Kwerrock and his horse just run away, which at least would have slowed down the full attack (although the first tactic would both have been much better and also more closely in line with the tactics I sent you). Then for Round 5 you had Kwerrock cast Silence, which had less than a 50-50 chance of working, although given the initial Round 4 choice I admit that nothing else I can think of had much chance of working either. On the other hand, Sivalyn's tactics look like they said never to get in melee range when it could be helped, and indeed you had him within melee range by Round 4. So I don't quite understand that either. There was a further error Round 5. According to a discussion we've had over the past few days, you need a hand free to cast from a scroll. So after Sivalyn pulled out the Bag of Tricks and used it Round 4 (Move and Standard actions), he can't draw and use a scroll the same round Round 5 unless he drops his Bag of Tricks as a free action, which I think he wouldn't have wanted to do. On Round 6, you have Kwerrock casting Guidance again. It would seem that Invisibility or Mirror Image would be better choices, unless Kwerrock is pretty much deciding not to spend more money, in which case a desperation arrow shot might actually have worked better (hey, if he gets a crit it can be a one-shot kill, especially with the luck reroll still available). Finally, while I'm critiquing the details of the fight, there was also a harmless error that didn't affect the outcome. Sivalyn's scythe damage was 2d4-2, not 2d4, and therefore CdG damage was 15, not 23. But since Kwerrock's Fort save was only 18, that doesn't matter; he didn't make DC 25 any more than he did DC33. But anyhow, I think that A. Sivalyn's tactic was to stay further away and send the wolverine in from there and, if I'm wrong about that, B. Kwerrock's tactic was to make a lance charge in Round 4 or, if an obstacle prevented that, double move towards Sivalyn and melee him in some other way. Sorry for being so critical, but I'd appreciate it if you'd consider rerunning some or all of the fight.
Arstimis 02-07-05, 11:27 PM	My fights are done: Sokai Calanis vs En Sidious Deth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5407841) Short version: A hilarious fight, as both combatants had the same plan against each other, and both suceeded. It came down to the rolls, really (I had to make a judgement call about the whips, though). Stories tomorrow. :) Of course I had to have all...and i mean all the bad luck in this fight....man...this fight cost me more than it was worth....
Arstimis 02-07-05, 11:30 PM	Well, my first pitlorded fight in over 6 months is up. Im hoping I did ok, and feedback from anyone that is bored enough to read it would be helpful, heh Korn vs The Ripper (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5408225#post5408225)
Dalton Onestone 02-07-05, 11:57 PM	Well, my first pitlorded fight in over 6 months is up. Im hoping I did ok, and feedback from anyone that is bored enough to read it would be helpful, heh Korn vs The Ripper (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5408225#post5408225) Funny story! But isn't it a standard action to dismiss a spell? If so, Ripper did somewhat too much during Round 7.
Jindl 02-08-05, 12:14 AM	Risal Atess (Kaigan) vs Hakatri Abendstern (Beldin) is posted.
Snommelp 02-08-05, 12:27 AM	Evram vs. Flower has been re-finished. The end result was a much more expensive fight with a change in winner. I don't know for sure, but it looks like both combatants spent more than they made.
Jindl 02-08-05, 12:38 AM	Evram vs. Flower has been re-finished. The end result was a much more expensive fight with a change in winner. I don't know for sure, but it looks like both combatants spent more than they made. Two errors that I see, Snomm. The first is that a potion: invisibility has a duration of 30 rounds, not 10. And the second is that Evram must make a manifester level check (DC10) to successfully use the powerstone: astral construct (ML9). -Jindl
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 12:47 AM	Also re Kwerrock/Sivalyn -- Sivalyn might be entitled to Spellcraft checks to recognize the Shield spells going up and hence not to cast Magic Missile against them. (I wonder how Spellcraft is modified for distance, ala Spot modifiers.)
Snommelp 02-08-05, 12:49 AM	I just can't win with this fight. I just did the ML check (7+3=10), and the construct sticks around. Now I just need to figure out what to do with the invisibility problem... This fight is taking too much time, I'm not going to be able to get to Grakk vs. Lora. Could someone else take it?
Jindl 02-08-05, 01:07 AM	Also re Kwerrock/Sivalyn -- Sivalyn might be entitled to Spellcraft checks to recognize the Shield spells going up and hence not to cast Magic Missile against them. (I wonder how Spellcraft is modified for distance, ala Spot modifiers.) It doesn't. Either you pass the spot check and can attempt a normal spellcraft check, or you fail the spot check and can't. Keep in mind that you can spellcraft with a successful listen check also.
Jindl 02-08-05, 01:08 AM	Kiyo Zephlyn (Zepher) vs Snomm Elp "The Waist-High Fist" (Snommelp) is posted. Which signature move will prove triumphant? The Gnomish Shin-kicker or the People's Armpit??
Snommelp 02-08-05, 02:01 AM	I fixed it... again. It's midnight now, and I have an 8 AM class, so if there are any other problems, too bad. I'm already getting a late penalty because I didn't do Grakk vs. Lora yet. Goodnight.
Ashenai 02-08-05, 02:09 AM	Elishar vs. Elder is up. Regarding the Sivalyn-Kwerrock fight... Huan, where did Sivalyn get that CL 7 scroll of Magic Missile? I certainly didn't buy one for him. :)
Jindl 02-08-05, 02:16 AM	Ex Nihilo (Ashenai) vs Keth'Arian'Kari (One_Winged_Angel) is posted. Machine monk vs Gith monk, and projectiles flying everywhere. Which one will prove to be the real Bulletproof Monk?
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 02:26 AM	Elishar vs. Elder is up. Regarding the Sivalyn-Kwerrock fight... Huan, where did Sivalyn get that CL 7 scroll of Magic Missile? I certainly didn't buy one for him. :) Good point! I was wondering why I hadn't sent in tactics about rapid mount death. Now I know why -- based on Sivalyn's actual char sheet, rapid mount death didn't seem likely. :)
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 02:30 AM	@Elishar -- you can't CdG with Scorching Ray, or indeed with most ranged weapons. Just bows and crossbows.
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 02:32 AM	@Jindl, I think the consensus is that you don't need to use a weapon one-handed for Deflect Arrows to work. You just don't get AoOs with a two-handed weapon because you're supporting it with one hand when not actually making an attack. So there was no need for Ex Nihilo to shoot onehanded.
Jindl 02-08-05, 02:37 AM	@Jindl, I think the consensus is that you don't need to use a weapon one-handed for Deflect Arrows to work. You just don't get AoOs with a two-handed weapon because you're supporting it with one hand when not actually making an attack. So there was no need for Ex Nihilo to shoot onehanded. You must have 1 hand free in order to use deflect arrows. However, it is a free action to put your hand on your weapon and a free action to take your hand off (as long as it is a two handed weapon). So Ex Nihilo ended his turn by taking his hand off the weapon and began his turn by putting his hand on the weapon. Thus the only time both hands would be occupied would be during his turn. This is why he requested to fire one handed only if he could tell that Keth has a readied action to fire during his turn. This only happened once during the fight (and the 1-handed aspect was irelevant, given Keth's amazingly high AC). -Jindl
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 02:49 AM	I apologize. You experts were evidently way ahead of me.
Arstimis 02-08-05, 06:15 AM	Funny story! But isn't it a standard action to dismiss a spell? If so, Ripper did somewhat too much during Round 7. Well, maybe i should read all of the details about dismissing a spell next time. The first line says it can be dismissed at will..so i just assumed that meant a free action. Oh well, i'll change it, i dont think it'll change much if anything And thank you for taking the time to read it
cellardweller 02-08-05, 06:32 AM	That was decidedly unsatisfying.
Arstimis 02-08-05, 06:34 AM	The error in my fight with the dismissal of entangle would make me change all the rounds afterwards, and it doesnt make any difference with the outcome...so i hope no one minds if I leave it like it is. Also, can anything be done about my fight..so far this is what it looks like. Initiative: Va'ria:n: 14+1=15 Britknee: 17+2=19 Horse: 16+1=17 Britknee wins initiative. Va'ria begins at point A with potion of invisibility and scrollset 1. Britknee begins at point B with longsword and potion of protection from evil, horse next to her. Round 1: Brit: Runs towards center of arena, sends horse towards Va'ria. (MS: (+4-20=-14) Horse: Runs towards Va'ria. Va'ria: Sees horse, pinpoints Brit(List: 17+9=26). Casts fireball from scroll CL check succeeds (roll 13). Reflex save: 3+4=7 fails, damage 20. Moves to interpose a barrier between her and the horse. EoR: Brit:5/25 hp 1,-1,0 Horse: -10,-14,0 Va'ria: -16,0,0 Round 2: Brit: Casts resistance, readies against condition (hear spell=run). Horse: Trots over to Va'ria. Va'ria: Backs off from horse, drinks potion of invisibility. EoR: Brit: 5/25 1,-1,0 Horse: -15,-1,0 Va'ria: -17,0,0 Resistance: 12 Invis: 32 Round 3: Brit: Drinks potion of protection from evil. Readies. Horse: Horse is confused, can't see anything to attack. Va'ria: Casts expeditious retreat. Moves 60 feet towards last known location of Brit. EoR: Brit:5/25 1,-1,0 Horse: -15,-1,0 Va'ria: -6,0,0 Resistance: 12 Invis: 32 PfE: 13 ER: 33 Round 4: Brit: Hears, does not pinpoint. Readies action. Horse:...has nothing to attack. Va'ria: Moves up diagonally, sees Brit, begins casting, is heard, condition met, he scurries behind pillar. Lightning bolt goes off (CL check passed) does not go through pillar. EoR: Brit:5/25 1,-1,0 Horse: -15,-1,0 Va'ria: 0,-4,0 Resistance: 12 Invis: 32 PfE: 13 ER: 33 Fine, changes are as follows: doesn't cast that MM as she knows you're gonna duck around. drinks potion of invisibility to animals. casts blindness, save failed (rolled 3) at which point you walk over and swing your sword at air(didn't pinpoint w/ listen, rolled a d4 to choose which square to attack), and are magic missled. Does anyone else think that is a pretty unfair fight? 1. There is no way she would be able to target me with a fireball spell, so take away 20 damage to me 2. As soon as she attacked me with the lightning bolt spell my horse would go to attack her 3. If my tactics were followed I would have jumped behind full concealment, causing her blindness/deafness spell to mess up against me, and my horse would be able to attack 4. that 1 magic missle wouldnt be near enough to kill me. 5. my horse should have killed her by now from the number of times it was able to attack..... anyone?
Huan 02-08-05, 06:35 AM	Regarding the Sivalyn-Kwerrock fight... Huan, where did Sivalyn get that CL 7 scroll of Magic Missile? I certainly didn't buy one for him. :) Yeah, I can sheepishly answer that one. Somehow, amidst all the MM scrolls both of you were carrying, I somehow had Sivalyn use Kwerrok's CL7 scroll... (and Sivalyn showed all his mastery of thievery.. or something). Well, fortunately it does not affect the fight since the horse did not play a prominent role once the two fighters were engaged. Sorry about that :embarrass
Caterane 02-08-05, 06:58 AM	@Kaigan: Muahahahaha :rofl: But hey, my warhorse is no threat and has little impact on the outcome, right? Kill the horse, kill the build. Oh wait, your horse brought me in this bad situation in the first place with this free extra movement.
Pittbull 02-08-05, 08:17 AM	@ONE_WINGED_ANGEL: One major mistake in round three! Boraxx will-save was 15+2=17, but his modifier should be +3 and the the DC is 18. So he passed the check and the fight would be totally different. Being so close to him Boraxx will join melee, his mount is able to attack Damon allready in this round.
cellardweller 02-08-05, 08:28 AM	@ONE_WINGED_ANGEL: One major mistake in round three! Boraxx will-save was 15+2=17, but his modifier should be +3 and the the DC is 18. So he passed the check and the fight would be totally different. Being so close to him Boraxx will join melee, his mount is able to attack Damon allready in this round. As luck would have it the DC was actually 19 so everything worked out well =D. And for future reference OWA, a touch spell is a considered a melee weapon allowing for cdg's
T'Var 02-08-05, 08:31 AM	I still dont understand how a 1st lvl manifestation powerstone could create the level 5, 7HD construct. I see nowhere in powerstone discriptions that they can be bought augmented. Determine Effect: A power successfully manifested from a power stone works exactly as if manifested normally. Assume the power stone’s manifester level is always the minimum level required to manifest the power for the character who imprinted the stone it should last 9 rounds, but should only be a first level construct
cellardweller 02-08-05, 08:34 AM	Powers stored in power completion items are usually not augmented, because the manifester level of such an item is assumed to be the minimum necessary to manifest the stored power. However, an item’s description may specify otherwise (some power stones have manifester levels higher than the minimum required to manifest the stored power, and are then assumed to be augmented as well). ..
cellardweller 02-08-05, 08:38 AM	It didn't matter for the fight, but Necavi has the boost construct feat and wanted to use it while manifesting AC from a stone. Now I didn't agree with the "No Augment Summoning with Scrolls" rule when it was implemented, but I do think the two should be consistent. What do others think?
Jindl 02-08-05, 09:10 AM	It didn't matter for the fight, but Necavi has the boost construct feat and wanted to use it while manifesting AC from a stone. Now I didn't agree with the "No Augment Summoning with Scrolls" rule when it was implemented, but I do think the two should be consistent. What do others think? I think they should be consistent also ... so no boost construct augmenting powerstones.
One_Winged_Angel 02-08-05, 09:36 AM	@ONE_WINGED_ANGEL: One major mistake in round three! Boraxx will-save was 15+2=17, but his modifier should be +3 and the the DC is 18. So he passed the check and the fight would be totally different. Being so close to him Boraxx will join melee, his mount is able to attack Damon allready in this round. In that case, his character sheet is against him as his will reads +2. But Cellardwellar caught what I missed in that Damon has Spell focus enchantment.
SnarkHunter 02-08-05, 09:43 AM	Anyone hear from Mysticmonk on the Jannelle/Rose fight?
One_Winged_Angel 02-08-05, 09:55 AM	@Snark: He said last night that he was running it... @Cellardwellar: A couple things in Aloran's fight. 1) I asked that, when spotted, use rapid fire. Why didn't I? -If he spots me, retreat and shoot. Rapid shoot first round. Try to lose him so I can hide. My only reasoning behind this was cause damage before I get away. I figured my chances of hiding sucked if he knew where I was. However... 2) This might have hit him and disrupted his casting/manifesting of Astral construct. I don't know how much this would have helped. So, any chance of adding in that bit?
cellardweller 02-08-05, 09:58 AM	In that case, his character sheet is against him as his will reads +2. But Cellardwellar caught what I missed in that Damon has Spell focus enchantment. Actually I missed that too (you'd think I'd know my own feats:P), you were also the +1 wis from the madness domain. Make that DC20 then :D (10+2[lvl]+5[Wis 20]+2[owls wis]+1[focus]).
cellardweller 02-08-05, 09:59 AM	1) I asked that, when spotted, use rapid fire. Why didn't I? Because I skimread your tactics too quickly. Fixing now. Edit: No change, just a couple of extra arrows used.
T'Var 02-08-05, 10:41 AM	doesnt anyone find it odd, that for a psion it only costs a 225gp powerstone(scroll) to summon a 7hd creature for 9 rounds, but for anyone else it costs 1125gp i'll take the loss, just think there is a bit of a cash difference in effective power levels EDIT: actually it doesnt look like you make him roll a ML check dc10 to manifest the ML9 stone
Kaigan 02-08-05, 11:22 AM	@Kaigan: Muahahahaha :rofl: But hey, my warhorse is no threat and has little impact on the outcome, right? Kill the horse, kill the build. Oh wait, your horse brought me in this bad situation in the first place with this free extra movement. Yeah, haha, haha, *choke*, damn CL 9 MM. Oh well, I level up too, and I'll see you later.
Snommelp 02-08-05, 04:21 PM	actually it doesnt look like you make him roll a ML check dc10 to manifest the ML9 stone I rolled the check and put the result here, but didn't put it into the fight. Would someone be willing to take Grakk vs Lora? It's already late, and I don't have any time to do it today. Tuesdays I have six classes to deal with, and on top of that I'm filling out a job application today.
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 06:29 PM	Yeah, I can sheepishly answer that one. Somehow, amidst all the MM scrolls both of you were carrying, I somehow had Sivalyn use Kwerrok's CL7 scroll... (and Sivalyn showed all his mastery of thievery.. or something). Well, fortunately it does not affect the fight since the horse did not play a prominent role once the two fighters were engaged. Sorry about that :embarrass Huh??? You killed the horse unjustifiably. Of course it didn't play a big role. It was dead!! Also, you didn't follow my tactics. And you didn't follow Sivalyn's. And you made other mistakes as noted above. I will be very disappointed if the fight is not rerun. I am already disappointed that you didn't even do me the courtesy of responding to the various problems I pointed out.
Caterane 02-08-05, 08:25 PM	I replayed the fight. Here are my comments: Round 1: Sivalyn used a CL 7 magic missile scroll which he didn't have. The scroll did 21 dmg to the horse. You also rolled 7d4+7 instead of 4d4+4. This needs to be corrected (CL 3 only = 2d4+2 dmg). Also, Sivalyn's magic missiles are all one the same scroll so he does not need to draw a new one. In round 2, Sivalyn rode from the center of the arena to the other end almost next to Kwerrock (20ft away) and also in charge line. Ashanai wanted to stay out of melee at all costs. He could have easily cast the MM from where he was. This move should have never occured. It also caused Sivalyn to fail the concentration check. Then, Kwerrock cannot cast shield on his horse since shield is personal only so the MM sticks (but remember, only 2d4+2 dmg). Round 3: The MM on the horse is not blocked by the (non-existant) shield spell, see above. Also, Sivalyn was again in melee range. Staying away from melee is defined as the opponoment cannot reach and attack you in the same round. Round 4: as per Ash's tactics, he shouldn't be in melee range. He is only 60ft away. Since Kwerrock is behind cover, the wolverine cannot charge Kwerrock. Round 5: Kwerrock didn't retreat from the slower wolverine but suffered a fullattack instead. He wrote in his tactics that he wants to evade them. Round 6+7: casting sleep is a fullround action. Not sure if you did it that way. Round 8: You rolled 8d4 for the CDG but it should be 8d4-8. The DC would be 10+15 = 25 which Kwerrock still fails with his Fort check of 18. However, Dalton, all of your scenarios insisted on the very long buff list so Sivalyn had at least 6 rounds, more with your offensive buffs. Your follow up tactics are 2x silence (which Sivalyn passed) then wait until his shield spell runs out. Sivalyn has 6 MM scrolls (=6rnds), plus wolverine on round 7, then sleep on round 8+9. The horse might not be dead by then but the sleep spell will surely be cast.
One_Winged_Angel 02-08-05, 08:32 PM	Ack, NM. Cat beat me to it!
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 08:45 PM	However, Dalton, all of your scenarios insisted on the very long buff list so Sivalyn had at least 6 rounds, more with your offensive buffs. Your follow up tactics are 2x silence (which Sivalyn passed) then wait until his shield spell runs out. Sivalyn has 6 MM scrolls (=6rnds), plus wolverine on round 7, then sleep on round 8+9. The horse might not be dead by then but the sleep spell will surely be cast. Well, I also put in the usual contingency escape of please change the tactics if they don't make sense. So I would hope that if he focused on attacking the horse (which I didn't explicitly allow for), that the tactics would be modified accordingly -- i.e., to get quickly into melee, which was my top-level strategy. Especially since I had that error in there about the Shield spell being cast on the horse, and it wouldn't be possible to get quickly into melee if my horse died. However, if you think that that's not the right way to handle my tactics as written, I'll abide by your ruling, conclude that I've been writing tactics that are much too brief, and write much longer ones in the future ....
Caterane 02-08-05, 09:17 PM	Actually, it would be better to write shorter ones. I'll comment your tactic: OK. This one is going to be a toughie. I can think of one very expensive plan which would probably work, namely: Plan A Buff Silence (x2 if needed) Wait until his Shield runs out Kill him quickly with CL7 Magic Missiles Kill the Bag of Tricks critters (probably including more Magic Missiles) while I’m waiting. But that could easily cost 8-900 gp, and he’d have a decent chance of surviving anyway. [It is not clear from your last sentence wether you want to use the plan or not. The heading says "Plan A" so I would assume that this is the first approach you'd like to try] There’s also [?] Plan B Buff Go invisible Dismount Hide from Animals Expeditious Retreat Walk up and whack him But that doesn’t leave a lot of time to run him down on foot, and he’ll have a small speed advantage if he’s on foot too or a huge one if he’s mounted. And it’s also expensive (See Invisibility would probably have to be part of the mix, as it might in Plan A). [You make a list with a Plan (B) but then explain that it is not very effective] Plan C Buff Ride around at a distance shooting arrows at him is unlikely to work because he can go curl up in a fetal position, thus getting his effective AC way up, survive until my copies of Shield run out, then take me down with Magic Missiles and his bag buddies. [Here again, you first list a tactic then say that it won't work.] Plan D Win init Ride out and cast a CL7 Magic Missile before he has Shield up has already failed, since he won init, and almost surely has the brains to get Shield up in the first round. Besides, even with a clear, Shield-free shot at him the scroll has below a 50% chance of being an instakill, even with the benefit of the luck reroll. [And again, Plan D is completely unnecessary] So we’ll go with [So basically your tactics begins from here on. Everything written before that was unnecessary and confused your pitlord, else he wouldn't have used Plan A but Plan E. The descriptors and letters alone are confusing.] Plan E Buff Run up to and (most likely) base him. A lance charge is even better. Stick him with sharp metal objects. Whacking an elf with a dwarf axe is thematically satisfying anyway!! Opening Buff Sequence (barring big surprises) 1. Mage Armor, retreat to cover 2. Shield (or earlier if he seems like a threat to start slinging Magic Missiles) 3. Resistance 4. Guidance (meant for saves, mainly, but also useful on attack rolls) 5. Mirror Image. If that fails the CL check, do Invisibility instead. Either should make it much easier to approach him. 6. See Invisibility if I think he’s invisible. Detect Magic if I think he probably isn’t but a little unsure. Please cast Divine Favor, Magic Weapon, Protection From Good, Guidance (recast), Resistance (recast) and so on at your discretion. Recasting Shield is important because of all those Magic Missiles. [This is also a bit confusing because some overlap with those in the list. You also didn't really specify when to use these secondary buffs] General tactical points include: 0. If any of this doesn’t make sense, please PM me or improvise. 1. One hand should generally be kept free for Deflect Arrows. However, if he doesn’t have the crossbow out he’s not a threat to draw, load, and fire it in a single round. The desire for a free hand may or may not be a reason to use a Dwarven Waraxe (which threatens AoOs even if held in one hand) rather than a Greataxe (which doesn’t). 2. Killing his horse may be a good idea, although if I have to resort to that I’m almost certainly at a disadvantage in the match. Killing Bag of Tricks animals that he can easily replace is unlikely to be a good idea. 3. If I think he’s invisible, I have to cast See Invisibility. I only brought one copy, so if I fail the CL check the luck reroll has to be used. If I see a riderless mount, he’s probably invisible, or else likely to go invisible. 4. I’ll probably save successfully against any one casting of Sleep or Color Spray, but if I don’t, a luck reroll of the save is probably in order. A successful Color Spray will give his pets several free rounds of melee. In the case of Sleep, please use your judgment. (If you think he can CdG me, then it’s almost certainly a good idea to reroll, and it’s probably a good idea anyway.) 5. The other good use of a luck reroll is for an attack likely to finish the bout. Critical threats or attack rolls on lance charges are best, because they represent two attacks each. A damage roll when he’s low on HP is another good possibility. 6. If he’s in a position where I can run up and base him but can’t charge him, please consider the alternative of riding up to 25-30 feet away (out of Color Spray range) and Commanding him to fall off of his horse, in a configuration so that if he remounts, he’s open to a charge next round. Even if it takes a Concentration check, so what? Memorized spells are unlikely to have any future use at that point anyway. 7. The main other possible use of my memorized spells is to Doom something from medium range. The right order is probably first him, then the horse he rode in on. But I don’t expect there will be time for two Dooms to make sense anyway. 8. If I’m dismounted, voluntarily or otherwise, Hide From Animals could be a lifesaver. A voluntary dismount probably finishes the bout fast one way or the other, by allowing both a full attack from Holger and a mighty whack from Kwerrock. (If it doesn’t offer a one-round win, then it’s unlikely to be a good idea.) 9. If he starts firing Magic Missiles at Holger, Shielding him could be a really good idea. 10. If there’s nothing better to do from medium range, Doom Sivalyn or his horse. 11. In the odd case that things go into a grapple, please use your judgment. Please note that Holger can participate enthusiastically both in grapple and melee, especially if Kwerrock is dismounted. 12. Kwerrock carries plenty of extra weapons, so if there’s a tactical reason to use the lance for a turn (charge opportunity, for example), use the glaive for a turn (to avoid an AoO, for example), or whatever, and then drop it, that’s fine. For example, as noted above, because the Deflect Arrows feat discourages him from holding two-handed weapons in both hands, in certain situations Kwerrock prefers to wave around his Dwarven Waraxe, so as to threaten AoOs, but in others he’d prefer to wield his best weapon, the Greataxe. 13. In case it’s relevant, all Kwerrock’s possible boni are of different types, so everything stacks: Shield – Shield Bonus Protection from Law – Deflection Bonus Mage Armor – AC Bonus Entropic Shield – miss chance Magic Weapon – Enhancement Bonus Divine Favor – Luck Bonus Guidance – competence bonus 14. Please use Guidance pretty much as you’d use the luck reroll, except that it has a use-it-or-lose-it expiration date of 10 rounds. 15. As previously noted, please change any of the above tactics if they don’t make sense to you, or if special circumstances arise. I particular, please switch over to one or more of Plans A-D if necessary and advisable. 16. Thanks for pitlording, and please have fun! That's also a lot to read Dalton. You have definately put a lot of effort into your tactic but sometimes less is more. I can see that Huan was overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of your tactic. However, no matter how good you hid your real tactic (Plan E), it is written there. Buff with your 6 spells, then melee. This should be corrected aswell along with the other mistakes I pointed out earlier.
Arstimis 02-08-05, 09:27 PM	Does anyone think my fight was run probably or close to fairly...and it seems Einzelgaenger doesnt care at all, especially after he posted that "he fixed the fight", which did nothing but add more things wrong to it After pitlording my first fight in forever I put quite a bit of time into it, and I think i did a pretty good job. Then one of my characters gets a fight like this..and it just isnt right I'm hoping after being away for 6 months, this isnt what the pitlords have become there is so much wrong with my fight i dont think it should be counted against either gladiator if the pitlord refuses to rerun or redo the fight fairly
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 09:57 PM	@Cat, I thought of this after we stopped chatting. You convinced me that based on the stated tactics, Kwerrock would try to engage Sivalyn in melee, but not in such an intelligent way that he would immediately succeed, nor did the tactics as written make it clear that he'd cast Mirror Image or something similarly useful first. And thus the second Sleep would still succeed, and since the living horse was HD4 and Kwerrock only HD3, he's the one who's hit by it. But why is Sleep on a mounted rider as automatic a win as Sleep on an unmounted one is?
Huan 02-08-05, 10:10 PM	EDIT: It seems many of my points have been either mentioned or corrected previously. I apologize now for any foolish reiteration or further mistakes. @Dalton Well, it looks as if you had a lot to say. Yikes, I step out for a day and look at the trouble I'm in... I do apologize for missing your first complaint and not replying immediately (somehow it was not delivered to my inbox). I do not, however, apologize for responding as late as I am right now, for there were more pressing matters in the real world I had to tend to. I now ask you to calm down before reading further... *takes in deep breath, exhales* Let's start from the beginning and take this step by step. You didn't have Kwerrock make a mounted charge against Sivalyn, ... You also didn't have Kwerrock and his horse just run away Kwerrock did not have his lance out at the time. Charging is a full round action. Therefore, there was no way you caould have done both in a single round. Furthermore, all of your tactics revolved around rushing in a beating Sivalyn as swiftly as possible after the lengthy buffing stage. No where did you have simply running away as an option. You always combined retreat with an attack. Additionally, Sivalyn beat you in terms of speed, so running away would have garnered nothing. Then for Round 5 you had Kwerrock cast Silence, which had less than a 50-50 chance of working, although given the initial Round 4 choice I admit that nothing else I can think of had much chance of working either. On the other hand, Sivalyn's tactics look like they said never to get in melee range when it could be helped, and indeed you had him within melee range by Round 4. So I don't quite understand that either. There was a further error Round 5. According to a discussion we've had over the past few days, you need a hand free to cast from a scroll. So after Sivalyn pulled out the Bag of Tricks and used it Round 4 (Move and Standard actions), he can't draw and use a scroll the same round Round 5 unless he drops his Bag of Tricks as a free action, which I think he wouldn't have wanted to do. First part, no point in saying what you did, since it was a direct usage of Plan A of your tactics. Second part, Sivalyn rode where he did to get a line of sight, and to not to usher the need to make a concentration check (since he already failed one, I lent him caution to not gamble another one being so close to you) Third part, okay, I concede that point. However, there are two solutions to that. 1) Sivalyn casts sleep instead which shortens this fight by one round. 2) Sivalyn drops the bag of animals (no problem with that stated in his part) and casts from the scroll with no problem. Either way the Magic Missile did not hit you since it was aimed at you with your Shield up (he had no way of knowing you activated Shield on yourself), not to mention that I notice you forgot to mention that the Sleep spell would have worked on your horse as well (being a 10 ft radius spell). That is another way your horse could have fallen. On Round 6, you have Kwerrock casting Guidance again. It would seem that Invisibility or Mirror Image would be better choices, unless Kwerrock is pretty much deciding not to spend more money, in which case a desperation arrow shot might actually have worked better (hey, if he gets a crit it can be a one-shot kill, especially with the luck reroll still available). You complained about spending too much money for this fight in your tactics, so I obliged and did not have you use your more costly items. I instead continued your Buff phase, since Sivalyn seemed to casting spells and that seemed to be a smart decision at the time. Also, you yourself discouraged the firing of an arrow for the entire fight UNLESS it was to finish him off if you had a good chance (and you did not). Finally, while I'm critiquing the details of the fight, there was also a harmless error that didn't affect the outcome. Sivalyn's scythe damage was 2d4-2, not 2d4, and therefore CdG damage was 15, not 23. But since Kwerrock's Fort save was only 18, that doesn't matter; he didn't make DC 25 any more than he did DC33. I concede that point as well, you were correct. But again, it did not matter. But anyhow, I think that A. Sivalyn's tactic was to stay further away and send the wolverine in from there and, if I'm wrong about that, B. Kwerrock's tactic was to make a lance charge in Round 4 or, if an obstacle prevented that, double move towards Sivalyn and melee him in some other way. Sivalyn's tactics, RAW, concerning the animals were to involve them only after your horse had fell. Being that his plan of MMing it to death did not work, I substituted this as the next best alternative that would not be costly on his part. Correct me if I am wrong, but to me it seemed he wanted to be directly involved in the fight, only running should his horse fell. His positioning only occured due to the way you moved, and as a reaction, trying to regain line of sight with interrupting casting. He only got closer to allow his animal to attack. Kwerrok's tactics however, are not so simple (not by any means). Like any logical move, I started with Plan A and worked my way from there to the point where it got too costly. It would have continued to Plan E (the lance), but you were finished off too qiuickly. Plans B,C, and D were not valid either because the contingency never occured, or you directly told me not to execute them (which prompts me to ask why they were mentioned at all). Sivalyn might be entitled to Spellcraft checks to recognize the Shield spells going up and hence not to cast Magic Missile against them No, Kwerrok had sucessfully broke line of sight during those castings, and he could not hear you. Therefore, no Spellcraft check. Also, you didn't follow my tactics. And you didn't follow Sivalyn's. Are you sure about that? Look more closely. I followed both buff stages, and for Kwerrok, I followed his extensive buff stage, and interrupted it when under fire by proceeding through plan A. As for Sivalyn, his MM plan was obviously halted, so I continued his plan to kill your horse as quickly as possible thorugh the next convenient means. He went into your charging range, but that was only to toss his animal within immediate attack range. Then, I went under his suggestion to put you to Sleep. I did nothing outside either tactics, I felt. To conclude: I do credit you on writing very thorough tactics, however, the contradictions within made many parts futile. Allow me to add that I made use of your first point in your tactics: If any of this doesn’t make sense, please PM me or improvise. I am holding you to that last part. Somehow I felt contacting you would not have cleared up my questions, as doing so would likely require a re-write of tactics and I did not wish to delay the fight further. Finally, And I have no doubt Huan's errors were simply ones of haste. You have a right to an opinion. (and I have a right to disagree) I will also add that you are very WRONG, as I was not rushed (I did not do this fight 30 minutes before deadline). Yes, mistakes were made (some rather large ones, no less). I do not deny that. I am not perfect like T'Var (@T'Var ;) ) In reality, this reflects rather poorly on me than you, so perhaps I should be more upset. However, despite all that, I still do not believe a rerun is in order (given that nearly all errors were shown to be irrelevant in the end, changing only the details in the middle, but not the end result). I sympathize your loss. I apoligize to everyone for my poor performance. I make no excuses, and I hope you can all take me in good faith in the future, as I will increase my focus in judging fights in the future.
One_Winged_Angel 02-08-05, 10:17 PM	@Huan: Ah, the dead speak! I hope this clears up some issues.
Huan 02-08-05, 10:30 PM	@Huan: Ah, the dead speak! I hope this clears up some issues. Okay, I've been gone, but not for that long, heh heh. :) @Dalton Obviously, your beef is with me. I bear no resentment against you, so I will tell you this: Know that nothing I did or said was aimed at you personally, so don't be tempted to think that. Don't quit the game for just one incident, that's just petty.
MysticMonk2005 02-08-05, 11:03 PM	Its finaly up. Even though it was finished yesterday, I couldn't get it posted cause the forums died. Sorry for lateness.
Sindorin 02-08-05, 11:14 PM	Does anyone think my fight was run probably or close to fairly...and it seems Einzelgaenger doesnt care at all, especially after he posted that "he fixed the fight", which did nothing but add more things wrong to it After pitlording my first fight in forever I put quite a bit of time into it, and I think i did a pretty good job. Then one of my characters gets a fight like this..and it just isnt right I'm hoping after being away for 6 months, this isnt what the pitlords have become there is so much wrong with my fight i dont think it should be counted against either gladiator if the pitlord refuses to rerun or redo the fight fairly I'm sorry about it, Arstimis, I really am. I can't really offer any other opinion about the fight, seeing how it is my character coming off the winner and he followed my tactics. People pretty much know what I would want to happen.
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 11:56 PM	@Huan, Thanks. Now I understand much of the confusion. I explicitly said in my tactics to go with Plan E, but you didn't see that and hence started with Plan A. I shall endeavor to write more clearly in the future. As for your comment above about Sleep, it is incorrect on a couple of levels, unfortunately not in a way that is to my advantage. First of all, Sleep hits the lower HD character first, and Kwerrock is 3 HD while the horse is 4 HD. On the other hand, if Sleep DID hit the horse, that would be great, because as T'Var The Perfect pointed out in a recent discussion, horses sleep standing up. So Kwerrock only had to kick the horse awake at that point, and all would be good. Even if you disagree with T'Var the Perfect, as long as Kwerrock is alive and standing next to his horse, there's not a whole lot of CdGing likely to be going on. But it's moot since the horse would not have been the one sleeping ... Another major open issue, however, is that if Kwerrock's horse is still alive, then casting Sleep successfully on him is not an automatic loss anymore. As for my surmise about your being hasty, that was just a guess, based on three sets of errors -- the fight itself, missing my posts about the fight, and giving an incorrect response to Ash's post that you did acknowledge. I was trying to be generous. :) Finally, let me hasten to assure you that at no time did I take any of this personally. The pitlord who I think sabotaged a fight of mine deliberately is MCTemplate, not you. Cat's opinion is that if the fight were rerun Kwerrock would still probably lose. However, I think he may have based that on a hasty ;) assumption that a successful Sleep is an automatic win. I spent a LOT of time thinking about tactics for that fight, and I'm frustrated both that I myself made some dumb errors, and also that the part of my tactics that made sense weren't used. Anyhow, given that Ash was willing to spend a lot of GP and XP to win the fight, Kwerrock's only good chance was to spend a lot of gold too, as mentioned in some of the tactics I spelled out and set aside. Best to just set it aside and move on, I guess. Thanks for running the fight, and for your comments now.
Snommelp 02-09-05, 12:18 AM	I guess I can run my late fight now. I hope Aramil and McTemplate won't be too mad with me... I just got in over my head this weekend. The two-week suspension should be enough time for me to pull things back together.
Snommelp 02-09-05, 02:32 AM	The really late fight is up. Fatigued barbarians aren't fun, and neither is a fatugued me. Goodnight.
Huan 02-09-05, 07:10 AM	@Dalton Ok, it's cool. Water under the bridge now.
Caterane 02-09-05, 12:15 PM	Ok, here are my comments on the fight... Initiative: Va'ria:n: 14+1=15 Britknee: 17+2=19 Horse: 16+1=17 [Ok because Brit is not mounted] Tactic: The first thing i will do is tell Tilly to run to the other end and attack my enemy [This is not possible. It is a) a move action with a Dc10 handle animal check and b) you must point at a target but there is none. The horse does not have the seek trick so it won't run off and search for Varia] Tactic: 1: Drink potion of Invisibility Round 1: Brit: Runs towards center of arena, sends horse towards Va'ria. (MS: 2+4-20=-14) [Instead of running seperately (which is not possible, see above) Brit better rides forward and dismounts; that's even more silent than running there; and this is also the only way to get the horse to attack on round 1 but that would be a huge pitlord adaption. A severe pitlord might even let Brit try to command the animal which fails and wastes an action; a valid choice for a pitlord] Horse: Runs towards Va'ria. [Wrong, see above] Va'ria: Sees horse, pinpoints Brit (List: 17+9=26). [minus 11 distance = 15 vs Dc-14, pinpointed] Casts fireball from scroll CL check succeeds (roll 13). Reflex save: 3+4=7 fails, damage 20. [Varia wanted to cast invisibility, not fireball] Moves to interpose a barrier between her and the horse. Round 2: Brit: Casts resistance, readies against condition (hear spell=run). [Casting a spell is a standard action, as is readying an action. Brit cannot do both.] Horse: Trots over to Va'ria. [No, since there is no target] Va'ria: Backs off from horse, drinks potion of invisibility. Round 3: Brit: Drinks potion of protection from evil. Readies. [These are 2 standard actions again! Not possible.] Horse: Horse is confused, can't see anything to attack. [Ok] Va'ria: Casts expeditious retreat. Moves 60 feet towards last known location of Brit.[Ok] Round 4: Brit: Hears, does not pinpoint. Readies action. [A ready action must be defined. She cannot just ready and then decide what to do with the interrupt] Horse:...has nothing to attack. [Ok] Va'ria: Moves up diagonally, sees Brit, begins casting, is heard, condition met, he scurries behind pillar. Lightning bolt goes off (CL check passed) does not go through pillar. [Ok] After that, the fight is (un)finished. I don't think Britknee could have evaded the fireball as it was in Sindorin's tactics before Brit readies to move away (there also needs to be a listen check) and since Varia was invisible Brit cannot effectively determine cover against her. Also, with Cellardweller's hide rule Brit would be autospotted anyway. But most importantly, since this is such a big issue, we should go by the very word of the tactic which causes either the horse to stay on the starting position, or Brit wasting an action to first command attack, or a more useful command: heel, and later: attack (= 2 move action). After Round 4: What now happens is that the horse would attack (defend trick) and Brit would try to get into melee (charge if possible). If I knew where she was when she cast it, I will run to where she was swinging my longsword. If I can hear her casting or making noise I will run at where I think it came from swinging my longsword. Depending on the positions, Brit might or might not get off an attack before Varia casts magic missile. Also keep in mind that the lightning bolt triggers the horse' defend trick so the mare might kill Varia though Varia is pretty fast with exp.retreat and chances are slim that either might get into melee before Varia casts mm. There are a couple of choices because of mistakes in Arstimis tactic which are up to the pitlord. I agree that Einzelgaenger could have chosen a better adaption and there are perhaps some decisions that should be corrected but correcting the mistakes in Arties tactics in the most favorable way (and this is needed for Brit to win) would be unfair to Sindorin who's tactics are (simple but) okay. If Arty is still not satisfied with this evaluation and Sindorin agrees, I can set up a rerun for this week.
Sindorin 02-09-05, 12:38 PM	There are a couple of choices because of mistakes in Arstimis tactic which are up to the pitlord. I agree that Einzelgaenger could have chosen a better adaption and there are perhaps some decisions that should be corrected but correcting the mistakes in Arties tactics in the most favorable way (and this is needed for Brit to win) would be unfair to Sindorin who's tactics are (simple but) okay. If Arty is still not satisfied with this evaluation and Sindorin agrees, I can set up a rerun for this week. I am okay with a rematch, not a rerun. Now that I have seen what can be done against my build (no more lightning bolts...), I doubt the rematch would prove much differently.
Huan 02-09-05, 03:50 PM	Expansions of Kwerrok vs Sivalyn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5407813) and Sokai vs En Sidious (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5407841) are done.
Arstimis 02-09-05, 05:11 PM	Because the beginning seems like there was a huge mistake because the pitlord modified my tactics because they were illegal, maybe the pitlord should have actually read my tactics and followed them Make sure you read all my tactics, and email back if something is wrong or illegal So if I couldnt have sent my horse forward like I did, then what I would have told him to do was just keep my horse with me to defend me. It makes alot more sense. Also one thing that still hasnt been answered by anyone, is how the fireball spell was able to be cast and hit me, when there was the huge central obstacle between us. Also, the negative to listen in the first round would be higher, because there is that central obstacle that has 15 ft of stone between us. I am okay with a rematch, not a rerun. Now that I have seen what can be done against my build (no more lightning bolts...), I doubt the rematch would prove much differently. That is the point, we cant just do a whole nother set of tactics, because now you know the only thing i could have done against you. Now that you know what I can do you can counter it, which makes it totally unfair for me....... but if that is the only way it could be done, then i guess we'll have to do it
Sindorin 02-09-05, 05:38 PM	Expansions of Kwerrok vs Sivalyn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5407813) and Sokai vs En Sidious (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5407841) are done. Awesome stories, Huan. Thank you. I don't know how you do it...
Arstimis 02-09-05, 05:47 PM	Awesome stories, Huan. Thank you. I don't know how you do it... Yes, great job Huan. I liked the story...even though I lost...by my own tactics no less. Great minds think alike, eh Sindorin, haha
Sindorin 02-09-05, 05:50 PM	Yes, funny thing was that I never saw your whip token when I was originally writing tactics against En Sidious Deth. Lucky for me I am playing a combat wilder... with Vigor...
Dalton Onestone 02-09-05, 06:01 PM	Huan, Now I'm unhappy with you again. If you had the time to write a story about a fight that was completely mismanaged, you also had the time to rerun it more correctly first. Or else out of simple decency you could have let it lie without dressing the stinking mess up.
SnarkHunter 02-09-05, 06:07 PM	Though consider that this is after the time when editing could be allowed. So if the outcome changed neither of you could be paired.
Dalton Onestone 02-09-05, 06:20 PM	Though consider that this is after the time when editing could be allowed. So if the outcome changed neither of you could be paired. I'd rather miss a week than have a wrong result from the prior week's fight.
Einzelgaenger 02-10-05, 02:08 AM	Geh...sorry for the cluster**** of a match there... Actually, the fireball is one of the few things I can explain. Due to the pinpoint check (no other minuses, that's just a pillar, not a full wall), Va'ria knew exactly where you were, and as it turns out, though she couldn't hit the square you were in, she could hit any variety of squares next to you, which is plenty close with a fireball. Concerning the tactics...it was a chance to let loose the most destructive spell in her arsenal before turning invisible, and then letting off the other power-spell. Given that it was only a couple steps later, and i believed the invisibility was to open up a chance to use the fireball...
Kaigan 02-10-05, 03:17 AM	@Einzelgaenger: I think what Arti meant was that how could the fireball even hit him through the central obsticle. Granted it consists of multiple pillars and columns, but a fireball blast with a radius of 20ft, would have difficulty hitting a character protected by the obsticles
Caterane 02-10-05, 05:56 AM	No, Einzel is right. Brit ran to (1/-1) and Varia has about 15 squares to choose from which would all cause the fireball to spread out, around the corners, and include Brit. Also, Arty had the wrong assumption that the fireball did only 3d6 damage. I've already talked to Arstimis.
Arstimis 02-10-05, 06:22 AM	No, Einzel is right. Brit ran to (1/-1) and Varia has about 15 squares to choose from which would all cause the fireball to spread out, around the corners, and include Brit. Also, Arty had the wrong assumption that the fireball did only 3d6 damage. I've already talked to Arstimis. No, I still have not figure out how it could have it him. It has to somehow get 20 ft or closer to me, and drawing lines from Va'ria's starting position, I cant get that to happen. It is either farther than 20 ft away or hits a wall before it gets there. If someone could tell me what square the fireball hit then i might be able to understand
Arstimis 02-10-05, 06:25 AM	Oh, and I would like to know what is considered a wall and what isnt. I would think the central obstacle should be, It is 15 ft long and can very easily muffle sound as a much longer wall would. Especially if it is right between the two combatants Basically, how long does a wall have to be to be considered a wall?
Pitlords 02-10-05, 06:42 AM	If you are at (1/-1) then I can aim the fireball at (-1/-1) which is just 10ft away. If the cover at (-9/+0) bothers you, then I aim the fireball 15ft in the air which lets the fireball bead fly over the cover. There are no walls in the arena.
Arstimis 02-10-05, 12:20 PM	If you are at (1/-1) then I can aim the fireball at (-1/-1) which is just 10ft away. If the cover at (-9/+0) bothers you, then I aim the fireball 15ft in the air which lets the fireball bead fly over the cover. There are no walls in the arena. OH, dang thats what's been messing me up. I looked at the map and read more into the description. I was thinking the central obstacles were like pillars so nothing could go over them. sorry about arguing about this.. i was obviously wrong
Dalton Onestone 02-10-05, 12:54 PM	OH, dang thats what's been messing me up. I looked at the map and read more into the description. I was thinking the central obstacles were like pillars so nothing could go over them. sorry about arguing about this.. i was obviously wrong OK. Now I am confused. What ARE the central obstacles? I've been assuming they're floor-to-ceiling columns, with no space between the columns that are in adjacent squares (something that happens only in the center, obviously).
Caterane 02-10-05, 01:51 PM	Yes, they are 155ft high and reach to the ceiling but that is completely irrelevant. The fire moves AROUND the central pillars. http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Schaubild.jpg Varia aims the fireball bead at the ORANGE spot, 15ft in the air so that it passes the single 5ft rock on the way. The fireball explodes against the wall and spreads out 20ft to all sides, easily getting Britknee.
Arstimis 02-10-05, 05:12 PM	Yes, they are 155ft high and reach to the ceiling but that is completely irrelevant. The fire moves AROUND the central pillars. http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Schaubild.jpg Varia aims the fireball bead at the ORANGE spot, 15ft in the air so that it passes the single 5ft rock on the way. The fireball explodes against the wall and spreads out 20ft to all sides, easily getting Britknee.Well, thats news to me, I never knew the fireball spell could move around things like that
T'Var 02-10-05, 05:15 PM	Well, thats news to me, I never knew the fireball spell could move around things like that since fireball is a 20ft spread it does move around obsticals, look under Magic Overview in the area of effect section to see the difference between spreads, and bursts