Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sindorin 01-26-05, 12:48 PM	I got the date right this time :D And it even says "Fights"!
OdinTheReaper 01-26-05, 01:52 PM	:cheer: :clap: :dancin: :ayyyy!: :bow: nuff said....im soo....proud.**insert crying noise here**
Sindorin 01-26-05, 03:50 PM	Editing deadline has passed.
Snommelp 01-26-05, 05:15 PM	What? ... Fights of the week? Now I'm confused!!! :P
Pitlords 01-26-05, 07:19 PM	Pairings done! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5179877#post5179877) Please send your tactics on time, friday at the latest. Pitlords may begin running fights without tactics on saturday; any additional delay is a courtesy from the pitlord's side. Fights must be up till Tuesday 8 AM GMT (that's Western European Time). Any fight posted after this deadline is considered late and you will get a penalty and a 2 week suspension. Players, do not edit your sheet until your fight is posted! You will automatically lose your fight if you do. Please check the violations and try to correct them. Red violations won't be paired again next wednesday. Some News: From now on, we have a new rule concerning crafting of items, mainly concerning scrolls. You may now craft as many scrolls in your weekly free day as you want provided it does not exceed the 1000 gp limit. This week, we will see the first two quests run by Ash and me. We still want to see how things go first so quest offers will still be limited to a few. You're all invited to follow the quests but please do not post in the quest thread as it is only for the 2 people involved. Speaking of quests, there are 2 new Questlord offers: Snarkhunter and OneWingedAngel will pick on character each, and prepare their quests which will start on 2.February. OneWingedAngel/Battousai2005 is called Sean in real life. I am sure the whole CoCo will benefit from this realization :D Aureus Naïlo (Ayatoshi) vs Ala’andor Amastacia (Snommelp): LLMadCow will be rerun this week. Snommelp pointed out a serious mistake and Ayatoshi failed to send tactics. Please make sure you put the correct date into the headline. Solmund is ready for Jan 31, and Necavi apparently wants to wait till 9/26. Credit changes: +3: Caterane, Ashenai +2: Pittbull, Huan, OneWingedAngel, Snommelp, MadCowTemplate +1: Jindl, Cellardweller, Snarkhunter, LLMadCow, T'Var, Sindorin, Kaigan, Einzelganger, Piuro, Naerdaloth Extra credits: As always, Huan for his nice story and Cellardweller for his Picture fight which has been added to the World thread. Not a credit but definately worth mentioning are fights from Huan and LLMadCow I want to thank all of you for your participation in pitlording. I got enough offers after my last announcement so that we have enough pitlords for this week. With such a high participation, I have no doubt that we can completely enable Quests soon.
SnarkHunter 01-26-05, 08:19 PM	Question: why no Rose in the roster or in a fight? I mentioned her twice in the Tavern, it just slipped my mind to PM the pitlords...
cellardweller 01-26-05, 08:27 PM	Tactics Status Damon - Sent via email Jannelle - Sent via email Indri (Cat) (Init "7"+X) - Received Klaxon (T'Var) (Init "14"+X) - Received
Dalton Onestone 01-26-05, 08:37 PM	Question: why no Rose in the roster or in a fight? I mentioned her twice in the Tavern, it just slipped my mind to PM the pitlords... Similarly, why no Ringelhut? Evidently to ready a gladiator it is not enough to put "Ready" in the title line, nor even to also post in the Tavern. So what is the best procedure? If the answer is "PM the Pitlords account", wouldn't that make for rapidly overflowing mailboxes?
SnarkHunter 01-26-05, 08:55 PM	Similarly, why no Ringelhut? Evidently to ready a gladiator it is not enough to put "Ready" in the title line, nor even to also post in the Tavern. So what is the best procedure? If the answer is "PM the Pitlords account", wouldn't that make for rapidly overflowing mailboxes? Well in anycase, a fairly natural solution to our problem presents itself, if we can but find a kindly Pitlord to arbitrate the event. Could you post a link to Ringle? Also the buddha's tactics emailed to Kaigan. The rest will have to wait till after I get some sleep.
Caterane 01-26-05, 09:00 PM	@Dalton & Snark: You must send a PM to the pitlord account if you introduce a new character. It's really difficult to keep track of 80 characters and I had a very limited time window today. Don't worry about the pitlord PM box; as soon as a PM comes in it will be worked on at once. Of course, only send important things like new characters, changes in pitlording, etc. So, new pairing: Rose vs Ringelhut: T'Var
Dalton Onestone 01-26-05, 10:14 PM	@Dalton & Snark: You must send a PM to the pitlord account if you introduce a new character. It's really difficult to keep track of 80 characters and I had a very limited time window today. Don't worry about the pitlord PM box; as soon as a PM comes in it will be worked on at once. Of course, only send important things like new characters, changes in pitlording, etc. So, new pairing: Rose vs Ringelhut: T'Var OK. PM to the Pitlords account. Got it. Thanks for the quick fix!!! Ringelhut is on Page 5 of the characters thread. Let me find an actual link. Ahh. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5192558&postcount=129
xanadu 01-26-05, 10:43 PM	Pairings done! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5179877#post5179877) Necavi apparently wants to wait till 9/26. Oops :embarrass He wants to kill someone ASAP. I believe he is paired up with KoRn so you dont have to change anything!!
SnarkHunter 01-26-05, 11:09 PM	Tactics for Rose have been PMed because sleep deprivation is a great thought enhancer. hmmm...combine with beer...? :plotting: :lightbulb :dancin: :uh-huh: :yuck: :censored: :tantrum: Maybe not.
Sindorin 01-26-05, 11:48 PM	I think I know what I did for Sokai's green violation, but just to satisfy, what exactly is it? Could Pitlords PM me or post what I should fix please? Thanks. It's not like I'd be able to fix it until later after his fight is posted. ~Sindorin
Sindorin 01-27-05, 12:05 AM	I never know if I am going to get swamped with stuff again like last week, so I probably shouldn't pitlord any fights. It's my fault that I didn't send a PM to Pitlords about it. I might be able to run the fight. It's just that I was planning on going on a road trip this weekend, so I just don't have time to be careful about things. I know there is a shortage of pitlords, but could someone possibly take my fight? Flower:T'Var vs. Risal Atess:Kaigan;Sindorin I understand if no one can, and I probably could pull it off. I just like writing stories so I go really slow and I want to make a good effort at everything I do. I just don't want to worry about it if at all possible and I have lots of reading/papers/stuff to get done. Well, to summarize my rant - I messed up, should have PM'd saying I didn't want fights this week, and I think it would probably be best if someone takes my fight (again). Sorry that I am getting bogged down in this semester's work, this semester is probably going to be quite a bit more bumpy than last semester. Thanks, ~Sindorin
Sindorin 01-27-05, 12:15 AM	Double Post...
Dalton Onestone 01-27-05, 12:44 AM	Tactics for Rose have been PMed because sleep deprivation is a great thought enhancer. No doubt. Me and my big mouth. She's pretty much the nightmare matchup for Ringlehut.
Huan 01-27-05, 12:46 AM	@Sindorin I can cover for you. @Pittbull Tactics sent for Rook. @Xanadu Tactics recieved for Necavi, thank you.
Sindorin 01-27-05, 01:08 AM	Thanks Huan. I really appreciate it, it lowers my stress level like 35%. T'Var and Kaigan please send tactics to Huan instead of me.
Huan 01-27-05, 06:25 AM	@Pittbull Recieved tactics for KoRn, thank you. If I have time, I might be able to run the fight today (very likely).
Pittbull 01-27-05, 06:27 AM	Boraxx's and KoRn's tactics have been sent to their pitlords via PM. Tactics received from Huan and Snommelp!
Pitlords 01-27-05, 06:51 AM	Change in Pitlording: Flower (T'Var) vs Risal Atess (Kaigan): Sindorin Huan Sindorin -1 credit, Huan +1 credit @Sindorin: Sorry about Sokai. I didn't see your second fight link but to my defense, it is well hidden (hide+15) within masses of text. The violation has been removed but could you post it a little bit more obvious, please? Thanks.
T'Var 01-27-05, 08:35 AM	Init Rose 15+5=20 Ringelhut 12+7=19
Ayatoshi 01-27-05, 08:55 AM	I was wondering why my new character didn't get paired this week? It says that she's ready oh well...
Caterane 01-27-05, 09:03 AM	@Ayatoshi: Aureus Nailo was the only one Ready for 1/26 which is rerun vs Ala’andor Amastacia (see pitlords post above) because of a major mistake. All others are 1/19 which was last week so I didn't pair them. You are lucky though... Piuro forgot to ready his character aswell, so if you like you can ready one of yours to fight Fenir Ahea.
Sindorin 01-27-05, 09:06 AM	Change in Pitlording: Flower (T'Var) vs Risal Atess (Kaigan): Sindorin Huan Sindorin -1 credit, Huan +1 credit @Sindorin: Sorry about Sokai. I didn't see your second fight link but to my defense, it is well hidden (hide+15) within masses of text. The violation has been removed but could you post it a little bit more obvious, please? Thanks. hehe, I kind of figured that was what it was for. I'll fix that after the fight is posted. I realized well after the deadline that his bio is a tactical advantage (intimidate +10). What can I say, I got carried away again.
Dalton Onestone 01-27-05, 09:47 AM	Init Rose 15+5=20 Ringelhut 12+7=19 Thanks! That's good to know.
Ayatoshi 01-27-05, 09:50 AM	then I guess that there's a new fight then... Ikari Yui (Ayatoshi) vs. Fenir Ahea (Piuro): ????? Now we just need someone to pitlord it...
Ayatoshi 01-27-05, 09:53 AM	Can I send tactics this time for Aureus's fight?
Zepher 01-27-05, 10:43 AM	@OWA Tactics for Kiyo sent.
Huan 01-27-05, 11:35 AM	@Jindl Tactics for JotHF recieved.
Jindl 01-27-05, 11:36 AM	@Pitlords - You have Cadman Brandt III (MadCowTemplate) listed with a red violation. I just searched through the Violations thread, and couldn't find it listed. Since the Elder is paired against him this week, I was wondering if that violation tag was a mistake, or if there is something wrong with his pc (that I should take into account when writing my tactics)? @Cellar - Tactics recieved via email for Janelle. @T'Var - Tactics recieved via PM for Zactor. @Huan - Tactics sent via PM for JotHF.
Ayatoshi 01-27-05, 11:42 AM	Ikari Yui (Ayatoshi) vs. Fenir Ahea (Piuro): ????? Could we get some one to pitlord this?
Caterane 01-27-05, 11:51 AM	@Pitlords - You have Cadman Brandt III (MadCowTemplate) listed with a red violation. I just searched through the Violations thread, and couldn't find it listed. Since the Elder is paired against him this week, I was wondering if that violation tag was a mistake, or if there is something wrong with his pc (that I should take into account when writing my tactics)? He failed to list his gold and XP prize; for the second week now. Nothing that'll have an impact on your fight.
Pittbull 01-27-05, 12:06 PM	Could we get some one to pitlord this? I might have time, but I don't know by now. I checked both of characters : @Ayatoshi: Your ranger wants to use a scroll, but has no casterlevel. Didn't we decide that he's only able to use scrolls and wands if he has a casterlevel? @Piuro: You have haven't fixed your equipment, nor your character is set ready. On Monday I'll know, if I have time to run this fight. So, there is my suggestion, if there is nobody else to run this fight, send your tactics to me, after you've fixed your character this evening. I'll try to run on monday. But please go on looking for another pitlord too. Of course this will only happen if the GMs give their OK!
Ayatoshi 01-27-05, 12:13 PM	yes he has a caster level but he just has to do a check since his caster level is zero it's the same issue with wands
Jindl 01-27-05, 12:18 PM	yes he has a caster level but he just has to do a check since his caster level is zero it's the same issue with wands Rangers/Paladins cannot use scrolls until they have a caster level (ie, at 4th level when they gain spellcasting ability). They can use wands starting at 1st level. Such is the difference between spell completion and spell trigger items. @Cat - Thanks! @Kaigan - Would you mind posting the Initiative rolls for the Elder vs Chival? @Snark - Tactics for the Nameless have been PM'd. -Jindl
OdinTheReaper 01-27-05, 03:22 PM	Odin's tactics sent to Snark via email. @Snark: Also i sent a pm regarding my tactics. Please read.
Beldin 01-27-05, 03:28 PM	@T'Var: tactics for Hakatri have been sent! @Einzelgaenger: tacics for Inihe have been sent!!
T'Var 01-27-05, 04:00 PM	@T'Var: tactics for Hakatri have been sent! @Einzelgaenger: tacics for Inihe have been sent!! Please PM tactics to me in the future, thank you
Beldin 01-27-05, 04:11 PM	sorry, I will remember next time. my board skin makes silver invisible. ;)
Snommelp 01-27-05, 04:22 PM	Tactics recieved from Sindorin. @ Ayatoshi: I'm fine with you sending tactics, but as your opponent my opinion is not as important as that of the pitlord. If you do send tactics, though, please let me know so that I can possibly send new tactics.
One_Winged_Angel 01-27-05, 04:22 PM	I have gotten tactics for both Kiyo and Damon. Fight will be up sometime Friday. Lucky me, finals are nearly over! No tactics on my other fight. Please get them in by Friday. I'm going to need something to do. My sister's turning 11 and is throwing a Birthday party. God help me...
Jindl 01-27-05, 05:11 PM	Tactics received for Lissa (MysticMonk) and Grakk (Aramil). -Jindl
Aramil Dunskar 01-27-05, 05:24 PM	Tactics received for Lissa (MysticMonk) and Grakk (Aramil). -Jindl Tatics se..... OH you already got them.... Ok, thanks for letting me know :D -Aramil
SnarkHunter 01-27-05, 05:34 PM	Recieved Odin's and Elder's tactics.
Kaigan 01-27-05, 06:15 PM	Here you go Jindl: Eldar: 7 Cadman: 9 Here are the rolls (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=EldarvsCadman#14 4086)
Pitlords 01-27-05, 06:34 PM	To run a fight this week, though id prefer not to have to deal with mounts. Apparently both people im running have mounts. Piuro, your PM box is full so I post it here. Hm, sorry. My fault. There are a lot of characters and a lot of things to take care of so sometimes mistakes happen. Can you still run the fight? It is too late to switch with another pitlord and I am not sure if I have a substitute pitlord at all.
Kaigan 01-27-05, 06:43 PM	Okay update on tactics: @T'Var: I have sent Aeuluath's tactics via PM @Huan: I have sent Risal's tactics via PM @Einzelgaenger: I have sent Rayos' tactics via PM @Madcowtemplate: Received tactics. @Snarkhunter: Received tactics. @Jindl and Solmund: Still awaiting tactics, please send by friday night
Snommelp 01-27-05, 06:51 PM	Tactics recieved from Nanaleigh. Two down, two to go.
Huan 01-27-05, 07:06 PM	@Pittbull A little append to Rook's tactics PMed @Kaigan Tactics for Risal received, thank you.
Piuro 01-27-05, 11:18 PM	I can try the fight. Also, fenir shall be updated.
Dalton Onestone 01-28-05, 03:26 AM	I'm going to need something to do. My sister's turning 11 and is throwing a Birthday party. God help me... Be very nice to those girls. It's an investment that might pay off in about 10 years. ----------- Edit: Ringelhut's and Kwerrock's tactics PMed to T'Var and Naerdaloth respectively.
Pittbull 01-28-05, 05:29 AM	Fight Rook vs. Narikia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5331280&postcount=1214) is posted!!
T'Var 01-28-05, 08:32 AM	tactics received from: Rose the Explorer (SnarkHunter), Ringelhut (Dalton Onestone) Hakatri Abendstern (Beldin) Aeluath Dryearraheal (Kaigan) still need them from Evram the Soulless (SnarkHunter) Lia Nailo (One_Winged_Angel)
Naerdaloth 01-28-05, 10:51 AM	tactics for naerdaloth emailed to llmadcow tactics recieved from dalton and mystic. fight will be run either today or tomorrow
T'Var 01-28-05, 03:10 PM	tactics received from: Rose the Explorer (SnarkHunter), Ringelhut (Dalton Onestone) Hakatri Abendstern (Beldin) Aeluath Dryearraheal (Kaigan) still need them from Evram the Soulless (SnarkHunter) Lia Nailo (One_Winged_Angel) 4 hours to go and still no tactics from: Evram the Soulless (SnarkHunter) Lia Nailo (One_Winged_Angel)
Snommelp 01-28-05, 03:19 PM	I still need tactics for Britknee and Moon Moon.
stinkygoblin 01-28-05, 03:41 PM	@huan tactics have been sent for rex via pm
Jindl 01-28-05, 04:44 PM	@Kaigan - Tactics sent for the Elder. -Jindl
Kaigan 01-28-05, 06:06 PM	@Jindl and Solmund: Tactics have been received. Fights should be up Saturday if you're lucky, sunday if not.
T'Var 01-28-05, 06:30 PM	Sorry for the lateness Huan Flowers tactics have been PMed to ya
Huan 01-28-05, 08:08 PM	@T'Var Not a problem, tactics for Flower have been received, thank you. @Stinkygoblin Rex's tactics have been recieved, as well. Bare-bones of all three of my fights will be posted either tonight or tomorrow.
Snommelp 01-28-05, 08:52 PM	I still need tactics from Arstimis and SnarkHunter for Britknee and Moon Moon! Please get those in to me so I can possibly run my fights before Sunday this week.
Arstimis 01-28-05, 10:10 PM	I still need tactics from Arstimis and SnarkHunter for Britknee and Moon Moon! Please get those in to me so I can possibly run my fights before Sunday this week. Writing them right now..sorry i was a little busy the last couple days. I should have them done within the hour, i will update this when i send them via email and private message Same with my tactics to you OneWingedAngel Edit: Tactics sent to Snommelp for Britknee
Snommelp 01-28-05, 10:30 PM	Tactics recieved from Arstimis. Fight will be run tomorrow.
T'Var 01-28-05, 10:35 PM	Rose vs Ringelhut is up.....not pretty
Arstimis 01-28-05, 11:16 PM	@ OneWingedAngel: Tactics for En Sidious Deth have been sent to your email and as a private message
Jindl 01-28-05, 11:43 PM	Rose vs Ringelhut is up.....not pretty Since I'm running Lissa vs Jannelle now (and its a similar fight), I noticed some errors in Rose vs Ringelhut. If Rose wins init spur Spicy and double move towards Ringel end where he doesn’t have any cover vs. the ranged attack (I checked on the map and starting at position A, placing the upper right corner on (3, -5) is one such place, a line from the bottom right corner at (3,-4) does not pass through any impediments) and rapid shoot him. As a large creature, the horse would have to squeze around the corner of the central obstacle, so to reach the position indicated requires 140 ft of movement. Even using the Ride skill to spur mount (something which I wouldn't allow if your mount had to squeeze anyway), you can only get 130 ft of movement. This arena was designed to prevent you from gaining a 1st round attack without cover with a warhorse. There is no location you can reach with a warhorse in Rnd 1 that will negate cover for the other starting position. Round 1 Rose spurs his mount forward bolting to a clear area with an easy line of sight to his foe rapid shooting [Longbow 10+7+2-2-2=15 vs FF AC 10 Hit] [Longbow 13+7+2-2-2=18 vs FF AC 10 Hit] 6+2+3+3=14dmg A couple of problems: 1. Even if Rose is spurring mount, she can't negate cover (see above) so Ringelhut should be FF AC 10 +4 cover. 2. Since Rose's mount is taking more than a single move, she must fire her full attack during the midpoint of the move. She could ready to fire when Ringelhut came into sight, but there is no way for her to take a rapid shot at the end of the move. She will be limited to one arrow only if she waits until after the midpoint of the horse's movement. 3. Even if she somehow fired 2 arrows, Rose's attack bonus should be +3 bab +5 dex +1 mw -2 rapid -2 double move = +5. I think you may have added her favored enemy bonus as a bonus to attacks rather than a bonus to damage. 5. Since Rose can only fire one shot, the fight will continue (she doesn't deal enough damage to kill Ringelhut with one arrow), so make sure you give her horse the 1 pt of damage from spurring. I would suggest having Rose ready an action to fire when Ringelhut came into sight, then attempting to double move to the spot Snarkhunter requested (which will trigger the readied action at the end of the movement). This would fire one arrow (remove the -2 penalty for rapid shot = +7 final attack bonus), hitting for 6 +3 +2 favored enemy = 11 damage. Spicy takes 1 damage from being spurred, and Ringelhut is left with 1 hp. Then its Ringelhut's turn. Just something I noticed while working on an almost identical fight/tactics. -Jindl
Dalton Onestone 01-29-05, 12:51 AM	3. Even if she somehow fired 2 arrows, Rose's attack bonus should be +3 bab +5 dex +1 mw -2 rapid -2 double move = +5. Unless I'm missing something, that's what T'Var actually did. That said, what it looks like to me is that Rose is better off with the horse running. That gives the options of a full attack while cover is in place*, or a single shot when cover is not in place, either way at the -4 running penalty (after figuring in the Mounted Attack feat). *or maybe not; I don't have arena geometry memorized, and I'm not wholly clear on what does or doesn't count as cover. Thanks for looking over the fight!
SnarkHunter 01-29-05, 01:06 AM	Since I'm running Lissa vs Jannelle now (and its a similar fight), I noticed some errors in Rose vs Ringelhut. As a large creature, the horse would have to squeze around the corner of the central obstacle, so to reach the position indicated requires 140 ft of movement. Even using the Ride skill to spur mount (something which I wouldn't allow if your mount had to squeeze anyway), you can only get 130 ft of movement. This arena was designed to prevent you from gaining a 1st round attack without cover with a warhorse. There is no location you can reach with a warhorse in Rnd 1 that will negate cover for the other starting position. A couple of problems: 1. Even if Rose is spurring mount, she can't negate cover (see above) so Ringelhut should be FF AC 10 +4 cover. 2. Since Rose's mount is taking more than a single move, she must fire her full attack during the midpoint of the move. She could ready to fire when Ringelhut came into sight, but there is no way for her to take a rapid shot at the end of the move. She will be limited to one arrow only if she waits until after the midpoint of the horse's movement. 3. Even if she somehow fired 2 arrows, Rose's attack bonus should be +3 bab +5 dex +1 mw -2 rapid -2 double move = +5. I think you may have added her favored enemy bonus as a bonus to attacks rather than a bonus to damage. 5. Since Rose can only fire one shot, the fight will continue (she doesn't deal enough damage to kill Ringelhut with one arrow), so make sure you give her horse the 1 pt of damage from spurring. I would suggest having Rose ready an action to fire when Ringelhut came into sight, then attempting to double move to the spot Snarkhunter requested (which will trigger the readied action at the end of the movement). This would fire one arrow (remove the -2 penalty for rapid shot = +7 final attack bonus), hitting for 6 +3 +2 favored enemy = 11 damage. Spicy takes 1 damage from being spurred, and Ringelhut is left with 1 hp. Then its Ringelhut's turn. Just something I noticed while working on an almost identical fight/tactics. -Jindl Your totally right on a lot of things Jindl, I'm usually better at tracking these things... Looking over at Cat's crazy CoCo cover utility a run action could put me somewhere at (5,-22), which doesn't seem significantly better. Anyway sorry for the cornfusion T'var, good luck figuring it out.
Jindl 01-29-05, 01:37 AM	Jannelle Werabrook (cellardweller) vs Lissa Longfellow (MysticMonk2005) is posted. Interesting use by cellardweller of both cover and kneeling to gain a VERY high AC (um, 28...) @Cellar and Mystic - please check your tactics and character sheets for some minor errors (in red). @Dalton - His math came up to a +5, but he used +7 +2 -2 -2, which is what I didn't understand. If anything, it should be +3 +5 +1 -2 -2. I don't know where the +7 +2 came from? @Snark - No sweat. I haven't really studied all of the possible midpoints to full attack with a run action. But give the number of obstacles, the large size of the horse, and the need for a straight line to run in (and range modifiers and such), I doubt you could negate cover while running so that the midpoint would be within 110 ft. If anything, you'll full attack at a -4 for running mount and -2 for range vs FF AC +4 for cover. That's effectively a +10 to AC for the defender who lost initiative. This arena does a good job of preventing Zorander's ... at least until you get a pegasus or a phantom steed. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 01-29-05, 01:56 AM	Just to draw attention: my internet is massivly unstable right now but I hope to get tactics out soon*. With the help of these (http://www.gpi.org/awards_images/smirnoff03.jpg), they should be fairly easy to implement as well. *tomorrow morning at the latest. Edit: Tactics PMed to T'var and Emailed to Snommelp.
cellardweller 01-29-05, 03:33 AM	Thanks Jindl. Wait, one of my characters won??? Something must be wrong! :confused: Regarding running to 8,-19 from 20,0 (bottom right corner), it looks to me like it can be done, what am I missing? EDIT: Nevermind, spotted it - Diagonal movement accross the corner of the rock at (-14,-3)
Ashenai 01-29-05, 05:29 AM	Tactics for all characters sent. Sorry they're a bit late. Tactics for Uhmentarymster received. Tactics for Derth still not received. He has no default tactics. If viper doesn't get tactics in in 24 hours or so, I'll run him with "me half-orc, me go SMASH and/or SHOOT!" tactics.
Snommelp 01-29-05, 02:11 PM	All tactics recieved. I will try to run both fights today. I don't have much else to do, since it's snowing pretty hard right now.
Caterane 01-29-05, 03:28 PM	Wait, one of my characters won??? Something must be wrong! :confused: You must be kidding. You definately belong to those I have the most respect from. As far as I can remember I have never won against you (Harvester and Zedarak vs Johan :raincloud). Something I intend to change. :mad:
Huan 01-29-05, 06:57 PM	Bare-bones KoRn vs Necavi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5341771) is up. Short version: Necavi, you wanted the chicken strategy, you got the chicken strategy. -_-;
Einzelgaenger 01-29-05, 07:20 PM	@T'Var: tactics for Hakatri have been sent! @Einzelgaenger: tacics for Inihe have been sent!! Tactics NOT recieved. Plz plz plz PM them in the future. As it is, I'm waiting as long as possible to run the fight. Tactics recieved from Kaigan, though.
T'Var 01-30-05, 12:16 AM	Since I'm running Lissa vs Jannelle now (and its a similar fight), I noticed some errors in Rose vs Ringelhut. As a large creature, the horse would have to squeze around the corner of the central obstacle, so to reach the position indicated requires 140 ft of movement. Even using the Ride skill to spur mount (something which I wouldn't allow if your mount had to squeeze anyway), you can only get 130 ft of movement. This arena was designed to prevent you from gaining a 1st round attack without cover with a warhorse. There is no location you can reach with a warhorse in Rnd 1 that will negate cover for the other starting position. -Jindl looking over the map and the speed of the horse spurred and unspurred. an unspurred double move can place Rose at (1, -5) and allow a single shot without cover bonus [feel free to look over the movement but i ran it 30 ft east, 30 ft diagonal N.E. then another 30 east a 5 foot diagonal N.E. (which costs 10 feet due to squeezing) and 20 feet east for a total of 120 movement]
Jindl 01-30-05, 01:33 AM	looking over the map and the speed of the horse spurred and unspurred. an unspurred double move can place Rose at (1, -5) and allow a single shot without cover bonus [feel free to look over the movement but i ran it 30 ft east, 30 ft diagonal N.E. then another 30 east a 5 foot diagonal N.E. (which costs 10 feet due to squeezing) and 20 feet east for a total of 120 movement] I think you mean that the horse moves 20 ft diagonal NE (instead of 30 ft). Keep in mind that because this was a 5 ft, 10 ft, 5 ft diagonal movement, the next diagonal should cost 10 ft. Because that diagonal is squeezing, it doubles to 20 ft of movement. This subtracts 10 ft of eastern movement from the end of your route. So, depending on your starting position and whether you choose to pass to the North or South, your horse's final position would be (From A: bottom left -1, -4 or -1, 5 and from B: 0, -4 or 0, 5). Let's assume you left from A and passed to the North, to make life simple (since it will translate to the other 3 possibilities.) Since ranged attacks determine cover by drawing lines from one corner of your square to all corners of your target's square (or space if larger than medium size), you could use the upper left corner of the upper left square of the horse+rider's space (0, -5) as the source of your unbroken lines to each of your target's squares, assuming your target is at the starting position with any extra size located on the northern side of the starting position. (In other words, if your target has a larger than 5 ft space, all of the extra space must be on the same side of the y=0 row as you are. If it occupies any squares on the other side of the y=0 row from you, then it will have cover from the obstacle at 3, -3.) So, I think you have a solution for how a light warhorse (or other large mount with a Speed 60 ft) can put you in position for a readied shot without cover at the end of a double move. Of course, you still cannot take a full attack (so no rapid shots), unless the mount has a move of 120 or higher, which is why I mention phantom steeds and pegasi. One final note, is this does give a possible incentive to select the faster light warhorse instead of the more powerful (in melee anyway) heavy warhorse. With a Speed 50 ft, the heavy warhorse cannot accomplish this feat. About the fight: Since it limits Rose to a single shot, her opponent should be left with 1 hp. -Jindl
T'Var 01-30-05, 01:56 AM	Rose vs Ringelhut has been continued. much longer with the same outcome as a side note Rose needs to list Spicy's tricks Ringelhut needs a lot of work on his char sheet also. You must list your allys/familiors stat blocks in your char sheet not just say you have a hawk and a warhorse. it takes too long to keep looking up the different creatures when a pitlord should be able just to scan your char sheet and get all the info he needs
Snommelp 01-30-05, 02:30 AM	Ringelhut needs a lot of work on his char sheet also. You must list your allys/familiors stat blocks in your char sheet not just say you have a hawk and a warhorse. it takes too long to keep looking up the different creatures when a pitlord should be able just to scan your char sheet and get all the info he needs I agree with this for most gladiators. However, there are some (like mine, Ala'andor) who have no intention of ever putting their familiar in harm's way. A toad is not built for combat, and if it dies the owner loses not only XP but HP as well. In cases such as this, where the familiar will be nestled safely in a pocket or something, I don't think it's necessary to type out the whole stat block, just what the caster gains from the familiar. To my combatants: I know I promised you the fights would be today, and I'm sorry that they aren't up. It's amazing how little I do when I wake up after noon.
T'Var 01-30-05, 02:43 AM	I agree with this for most gladiators. However, there are some (like mine, Ala'andor) who have no intention of ever putting their familiar in harm's way. A toad is not built for combat, and if it dies the owner loses not only XP but HP as well. In cases such as this, where the familiar will be nestled safely in a pocket or something, I don't think it's necessary to type out the whole stat block, just what the caster gains from the familiar. To my combatants: I know I promised you the fights would be today, and I'm sorry that they aren't up. It's amazing how little I do when I wake up after noon. normally I would agree however just as Ringelhut did some put use there familiar for a combat action for 1 or more rounds and as such need to be listed if they are ever going to be actively used
Dalton Onestone 01-30-05, 02:51 AM	normally I would agree however just as Ringelhut did some put use there familiar for a combat action for 1 or more rounds and as such need to be listed if they are ever going to be actively used You're absolutely right. I cut corners because -- well, it was a week in which I cut corners on all my games.
Einzelgaenger 01-30-05, 03:02 AM	Rayos vs Inihe up, Rayos wreaks 1337-pwn493 upon Inihe
Dalton Onestone 01-30-05, 03:04 AM	@T'Var, Thanks for rerunning the fight! A few things I don't understand about the new version. 1. Why did Rose make his Listen check 26 times in a row? 2. Why didn't you have Ringelhut try to mislead Rose about his position via Ghost Sound, as per the apparently confusing tactics? 3. Even with Rose's perfection in making the Listen checks, why couldn't Ringelhut narrrow the distance, given that it's a circular arena? (Actually, I have to think more about that one, as it's new to me. My tactics assumed that Rose would miss some of his Listen checks.)
Beldin 01-30-05, 05:23 AM	@ Einzelgaenger: Since Rayos mount is taking more than a single move, she must fire her full attack during the midpoint of the move. She could ready to fire when Inihe came into sight, but there is no way for her to take a rapid shot at the end of the move. She will be limited to one arrow only if she waits until after the midpoint of the horse's movement. (qouted and edited from Jindl's post)
Ashenai 01-30-05, 05:25 AM	Tactics for all characters sent. Sorry they're a bit late. Tactics for Uhmentarymster received. Tactics for Derth still not received. He has no default tactics. If viper doesn't get tactics in in 24 hours or so, I'll run him with "me half-orc, me go SMASH and/or SHOOT!" tactics. Heh, sorry, my bad. I got Derth's tactics by PM (on time), and I completely forgot about them. The fight will be run as normal. :)
Einzelgaenger 01-30-05, 06:22 AM	@ Einzelgaenger: Since Rayos mount is taking more than a single move, she must fire her full attack during the midpoint of the move. She could ready to fire when Inihe came into sight, but there is no way for her to take a rapid shot at the end of the move. She will be limited to one arrow only if she waits until after the midpoint of the horse's movement. (qouted and edited from Jindl's post) Her full attack was from the midpoint, there is direct LOS at 60 feet diagonal from starting point A to point B, with no cover or anything blocking the shot
Caterane 01-30-05, 06:26 AM	This might be a good opportunity to use our Cover and Line of Sight Program (http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/coco/start.html).
Einzelgaenger 01-30-05, 06:42 AM	Ok, in addition to using tracing paper to show a line across my computer .txt version, i have scribed the relevant portion of the map onto graph paper. There is absolutely no object in the way of total view between those two squares. Any line that passes between those two squares does not touch a square occupied by a pillar or rock. even if the pillars were square, and rocks were cubes, there would be no cover. Edit: LoS program agrees with my map and graph paper.
Beldin 01-30-05, 07:34 AM	You are right. I always believed that the "new" arena was designed to prevent that. btw. nice Programm, Cat edit: Then Jindl and T'var should edit their fights accordingly - giving the archers an easy victory * :mad: *
T'Var 01-30-05, 09:07 AM	@T'Var, Thanks for rerunning the fight! A few things I don't understand about the new version. 1. Why did Rose make his Listen check 26 times in a row? 2. Why didn't you have Ringelhut try to mislead Rose about his position via Ghost Sound, as per the apparently confusing tactics? 3. Even with Rose's perfection in making the Listen checks, why couldn't Ringelhut narrrow the distance, given that it's a circular arena? (Actually, I have to think more about that one, as it's new to me. My tactics assumed that Rose would miss some of his Listen checks.) Rose made the checks every round because his tactics said to aviod close range compleatly. simply using a listin every round to hear you and the horses move to keep far distance. reading ghost sounds, yes you can make the sound of talking or walking, but that would virtually be negated by the sound of you casting it. regarding the third. you did cut the distance nearly every time, but for only 10 rounds your speeds were the same. double moves on both sides keeps you from getting in 30 ft range to cast Laughter after that your expedious retreat ran out and your speed dropped to 30 vs his 60, you could never catch him and have time to cast
T'Var 01-30-05, 09:10 AM	This might be a good opportunity to use our Cover and Line of Sight Program (http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/coco/start.html). sorry Cat, but I dont like the idea of DLing an unsigned activeX element onto my hard drive
Caterane 01-30-05, 10:23 AM	Regarding the Evram vs Aeiou fight... you can use a lance one-handed while mounted, and Evram could've used his psionic focus to take 15 on the concentration roll.
One_Winged_Angel 01-30-05, 11:02 AM	OK, I sent in my tactics, I hope someone got them. I have recieved tactics for Kiyo and Damon. I got Tactics for En Sisious. I do NOT have tactics for his opponent. I really dislike running fights without tactics. I would make up tactics, but I believe that would be unfair to Arti since I know everything about him... I'd like to request to delay this fight until next week unless I get tactics. I'd be perfectly willing to run it, but I want to get either tactics from both sides.
Caterane 01-30-05, 11:17 AM	I do NOT have tactics for his opponent. I really dislike running fights without tactics. I would make up tactics, but I believe that would be unfair to Arti since I know everything about him... I'd like to request to delay this fight until next week unless I get tactics. I'd be perfectly willing to run it, but I want to get either tactics from both sides. Negative. Sending tactics is the responsibility of the player. Your responsibility is to put the fight up till tuesday 8 AM GMT :) Coincidently, Viper is the DM in the RA adventure where I (and Mo+Ash) participate so I will send him a PM... btw, did you send him a PM?
T'Var 01-30-05, 11:36 AM	Regarding the Evram vs Aeiou fight... you can use a lance one-handed while mounted, and Evram could've used his psionic focus to take 15 on the concentration roll. fair enough but 15+8=23 still not enough to beat the damage DC of 25
Dalton Onestone 01-30-05, 11:56 AM	Thank you for your patience explaining all this! I actually have another question. I'm not sure who was in which starting position, but anyhow, it seems that when Caballo "charged" he wasn't able to make an attack on that turn, but he conveniently paused adjacent to Spicy, so that Spicy was able to make a full attack his next turn (but also ensuring that he'd be able to attack at least via an AoO if Rose/Spicy ran away). Is this the default assumption about animal tactics? I wouldn't necessarily quarrel if it is. Also, why didn't Spicy get an AoO the round Caballo ran up right next to him? (If he does get that AoO, maybe I do quarrel with the tactics ...) Rose made the checks every round because his tactics said to aviod close range compleatly. simply using a listin every round to hear you and the horses move to keep far distance. I'm sorry, but I still don't understand how he makes every single check to precisely locate the ending point of my move, unless you're assuming that he correctly predicts where I move to and hence isn't really making checks at all. you did cut the distance nearly every time, but for only 10 rounds your speeds were the same. double moves on both sides keeps you from getting in 30 ft range to cast Laughter after that your expedious retreat ran out and your speed dropped to 30 vs his 60, you could never catch him and have time to cast Hmm. I would think there's no problem getting to end my move arbitrarily close to him. I go to the center, go back out to a point directly between him and the center, then mirror his radial movement while getting super-close. The whole maneuver probably takes 4-5 turns (absent any obstacles, I'm within 30 feet of him, guaranteed, after two turns, and on top of him in three). What's more, I would think that he'd lose his knowledge of my location while I'm doing that. My familiar can spot which way he's going while I lose sight of him, if I do. Actually, that's not quite good enough, because I have to start a move 90 feet or less away from him. But that seems doable too. Suppose I go into the center, then come back out to a point 90-120 feet from the center and 30 feet or so from him. If he moves in my direction, I can catch up next turn. If he goes the other way (Listen check or dumb luck), I have to return to the center area, go back out to his new part of the arena, and try again. What am I missing here, logically? -------------------------- Anyhow, none of this is a big deal; between the basic pairing, the dice, and my failure to realize that Rose had automatically successful Listen checks (I feel really stupid that I don't yet understand how that works), this obviously wasn't Ringelhut's fight.
T'Var 01-30-05, 12:15 PM	Thank you for your patience explaining all this! I actually have another question. I'm not sure who was in which starting position, but anyhow, it seems that when Caballo "charged" he wasn't able to make an attack on that turn, but he conveniently paused adjacent to Spicy, so that Spicy was able to make a full attack his next turn (but also ensuring that he'd be able to attack at least via an AoO if Rose/Spicy ran away). Is this the default assumption about animal tactics? I wouldn't necessarily quarrel if it is. Also, why didn't Spicy get an AoO the round Caballo ran up right next to him? (If he does get that AoO, maybe I do quarrel with the tactics ...) Caballo didnt charge because it wasnt a straight line, but did double move to cross the distance and ended his move adjacent to spicy because you gave the command to attack. rememeber 2intel means they realy have tactics on there own other than crush kill destroy I'm sorry, but I still don't understand how he makes every single check to precisely locate the ending point of my move, unless you're assuming that he correctly predicts where I move to and hence isn't really making checks at all. he has +8 to listen which was usually cut down to -6 due to distance. and the DC was 0 because you were having to move full speed to keep up and he only precicely located you [pinpointed] 3 times, the rest is he heard you approch so he double moved away from where you were approching from Hmm. I would think there's no problem getting to end my move arbitrarily close to him. I go to the center, go back out to a point directly between him and the center, then mirror his radial movement while getting super-close. The whole maneuver probably takes 4-5 turns (absent any obstacles, I'm within 30 feet of him, guaranteed, after two turns, and on top of him in three). What's more, I would think that he'd lose his knowledge of my location while I'm doing that. My familiar can spot which way he's going while I lose sight of him, if I do. Actually, that's not quite good enough, because I have to start a move 90 feet or less away from him. But that seems doable too. Suppose I go into the center, then come back out to a point 90-120 feet from the center and 30 feet or so from him. If he moves in my direction, I can catch up next turn. If he goes the other way (Listen check or dumb luck), I have to return to the center area, go back out to his new part of the arena, and try again. What am I missing here, logically? in this scene, you would move to the middle and he would hear your movement away from him. he would stay put. when he hears you approch he moves back. in the event of you almost backing him into a corner he runs at x5 and makes it to the other side of the arena. also if you do more than a double move the dc to pinpoint you becomes -10 so he would have easily heard you and been able to dump many more arrows into your square. also your expedious retreat bonus speed was only going to last 10 rounds and he is able to evade. -------------------------- Anyhow, none of this is a big deal; between the basic pairing, the dice, and my failure to realize that Rose had automatically successful Listen checks (I feel really stupid that I don't yet understand how that works), this obviously wasn't Ringelhut's fight. it wasnt auto, but since you had to move normally you couldnt spend movement to try to move silently, so yes his listens had nearly a 90% chance to hear you every round
Dalton Onestone 01-30-05, 12:55 PM	it wasnt auto, but since you had to move normally you couldnt spend movement to try to move silently, so yes his listens had nearly a 90% chance to hear you every round Thanks. Your patient explanations help a lot. Not only did I have a tough matchup, and not only did I submit tactics that were somewhat clueless rules-wise, but he made four attack rolls in a row, plus the more important of two fort saves, plus 26 or so listen rolls that were individually each at 75-90% probability of success, with his only missed rolls being a handful of attacks against an invisible opponent and the less important of the two fort saves. Wow.
Jindl 01-30-05, 01:35 PM	You are right. I always believed that the "new" arena was designed to prevent that. btw. nice Programm, Cat edit: Then Jindl and T'var should edit their fights accordingly - giving the archers an easy victory * :mad: * My fight stands as is. Something you should note is that Kaigan's PC rolled a 20!, then a 19, then a 17 for his attack rolls, something which is a very rare occurrence. Still, I have just made a suggestion on the Tavern thread which guarantees cover prior to your action, without any convoluted or strange rules. -Jindl
Naerdaloth 01-30-05, 02:16 PM	Emad vs Kwerrock posted. Spoiler: There was a PK. No, in this case the P does not stand for player. *attempts small wit*
One_Winged_Angel 01-30-05, 05:54 PM	@T'Var: Question: When my horse died, I asked to go prone after the attacks. I notice that I didn't. Any reason for that?
Snommelp 01-30-05, 06:15 PM	Britknee vs. Shivock (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5349476) is up. Good times.
T'Var 01-30-05, 06:45 PM	@T'Var: Question: When my horse died, I asked to go prone after the attacks. I notice that I didn't. Any reason for that? if you would have gone prone, your opponent would have ran forward and nailed you with AoO in melee with a great sword as you stood or when you tryed to attack from prone, all of which would have been at a +4 to hit
Arstimis 01-30-05, 06:56 PM	Britknee vs. Shivock (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5349476) is up. Good times. I've got a few things that I think will make a difference in the game. Shivock does not have Improved Trip, so Britknee and Tilly should get an AoO against him every time attempts to trip me. Tilly should also get an AoO since he is attacking me and Tilly is right next to him Tilly should have been right next to me the whole time like i asked, so Tilly and myself would have gotten an AoO the first time he tried to trip me Remember, i have Combat Reflexes for my AoO I also get +6 hp for raging other than that it seemed to go fine, i didnt think i'd win, but i also didnt think i'd lose this badly
One_Winged_Angel 01-30-05, 07:13 PM	Kiyo vs. Damon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5349895&postcount=1223) is up. I still dont' have tactics from Viper. I'll try to PM him again. Come to think of it, my first one might not have gotten through. My internet is screwy right now...
cellardweller 01-30-05, 08:06 PM	Kiyo vs. Damon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5349895&postcount=1223) is up. You neglected Kiyo's spell resistance.
Jindl 01-30-05, 09:05 PM	I've got a few things that I think will make a difference in the game. Shivock does not have Improved Trip, so Britknee and Tilly should get an AoO against him every time attempts to trip me. Tilly should also get an AoO since he is attacking me and Tilly is right next to him Tilly should have been right next to me the whole time like i asked, so Tilly and myself would have gotten an AoO the first time he tried to trip me Remember, i have Combat Reflexes for my AoO I also get +6 hp for raging other than that it seemed to go fine, i didnt think i'd win, but i also didnt think i'd lose this badly You only provoke an AoO if you attempt an unarmed trip. If you are tripping with a weapon (spiked chain, flail, kama, etc) then there is no AoO. The Improved trip feat negates the AoO for unarmed trips and gives the bonus attack. Since Shivock was tripping you with his kama, there is no AoO. Even if he had been tripping you barehanded, it would only have provoked an AoO from you, not from your allies. -Jindl
Arstimis 01-30-05, 09:29 PM	You only provoke an AoO if you attempt an unarmed trip. If you are tripping with a weapon (spiked chain, flail, kama, etc) then there is no AoO. The Improved trip feat negates the AoO for unarmed trips and gives the bonus attack. Since Shivock was tripping you with his kama, there is no AoO. Even if he had been tripping you barehanded, it would only have provoked an AoO from you, not from your allies. -Jindl Oh...ok..but doesnt he still take AoO from my horse, since he was attacking me and my horse was threatening him?
One_Winged_Angel 01-30-05, 10:00 PM	You neglected Kiyo's spell resistance. Actually, I didn't. I just forgot to list it. Since I think this one deserved a roll, I did it again. You can find the rolls here. (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=56766)
vipergtsmk 01-30-05, 10:08 PM	One Winged Angel I've tryed to send you the tactics 3 times now. I don't know hy they aren't getting through so here they are! -Be very wary of the possibility of a sneak attack. -Enter a scroll of fireball in hand -First get behind cover and hide -Drink a potion of mage armor and cast false life on myself -get my opponent into my line of sight then, use the scroll of fireball -next attack with magic missle -open fire with my crossbow
Jindl 01-30-05, 10:14 PM	Oh...ok..but doesnt he still take AoO from my horse, since he was attacking me and my horse was threatening him? Since he was attacking and tripping with a weapon, he doesn't provoke an AoO from anyone. -Jindl
Snommelp 01-30-05, 10:17 PM	Oh...ok..but doesnt he still take AoO from my horse, since he was attacking me and my horse was threatening him? According to the PHB, attacking melee doesn't provoke an AoO. I would've thought otherwise, myself, if I hadn't had DMs constantly reminding me of this. As for the +6 HP from the rage, yeah, I messed up. Wouldn't have happened if you had listed what things changed to during a rage, though.
Arstimis 01-30-05, 10:20 PM	According to the PHB, attacking melee doesn't provoke an AoO. I would've thought otherwise, myself, if I hadn't had DMs constantly reminding me of this. As for the +6 HP from the rage, yeah, I messed up. Wouldn't have happened if you had listed what things changed to during a rage, though. I didnt know i had to list that...figured it wouldnt be too hard to look up. but since you missed that..did you miss the +4 to str? anyways, i figured i would lose, a monk is one thing i cant do much to yet Also..why did his wolf get AoO to my horse then?
Snommelp 01-30-05, 10:27 PM	I didn't miss the +4 Str. It didn't help you hit, though. The wolf got an AoO on your horse because the horse moved away from the wolf with an intent to attack. This means it had to draw its attention away from the wolf to move, which brought on the AoO. You'll notice that after that instance, the only AoOs that the wolf made were at Britknee, not the horse. BTW, you don't technically need to list the changes that occur from raging, just like you don't need to list the stats for mounts and animal companions. It does help us pitlords out quite a bit, though, since it means we don't have to flip through books to look things up (as I had to look up the bonuses for raging, since I don't play too many barbarians).
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 12:20 AM	One Winged Angel I've tryed to send you the tactics 3 times now. I don't know hy they aren't getting through so here they are! -Be very wary of the possibility of a sneak attack. -Enter a scroll of fireball in hand -First get behind cover and hide -Drink a potion of mage armor and cast false life on myself -get my opponent into my line of sight then, use the scroll of fireball -next attack with magic missle -open fire with my crossbow OK, I got them now. Sorry for the mix up. I'll run the fight tommorrow. It should be done sometime in the afternoon. School in the a.m. and all...
Kaigan 01-31-05, 02:55 AM	Well here's one: The Buddha vs. Solmund The Elder vs. Cadman will be up tomorrow.
Naerdaloth 01-31-05, 08:22 AM	@LLmadcow: i emailed you my tactics on friday, but you apparently did not recieve them? anyway ill just post them here because its monday already... 0. enter with greatsword and potion of invisibility in hand. apply dodge to horse 1. drink potion of invisibility, move back 40' 2. ready charge action against when he comes within 80' of me 3. engage in melee, attacking him not the horse 4. if he tries to flee remember i get an aoo. if he does manage to get away, ill try and charge him again. if such action is impossible, withdraw and then ready a charge action against him coming within 80' 5. repeat until someone is dead
Jindl 01-31-05, 09:05 AM	RE: Kiyo Zephlyn (Zepher) vs Damon Tharkis (cellardweller): There is a minor mistake at the end which would save Kiyo 2x potion: cure light wounds. Round 7: Kiyo: Moves up and fires: 6+5=11 Miss. Damon: Casts Spiritual Weapon. Attack: 20!+6=26 HIT. Conferm: 10+6=16 Does not Conferm: Damage: 6+1=7. Moves. Kiyo: 0/12 (3,-2) Def Precog. 7/10, Force Screen 6/10, Metaphysical Claws 5/10 Damon: 23/23 (3,-30) Pro vs. Law 7/30, Entropic Shield 6/30, ILW: hold charge Spiritual Weapon 1/3 Round 8: Kiyo: Drink a potion of CLW: 4+1-1=4. Damon: Wonders what to do since he is already at 130'...decides to attack with SW. Pulls out next scroll. Attack: 16+6=22 HIT Damage: 3+1=4 You have got to be joking... Kiyo: 0/12 (3,-2) Def Precog. 8/10, Force Screen 7/10, Metaphysical Claws 6/10 Damon: 23/23 (3,-30) Pro vs. Law 8/30, Entropic Shield 7/30, ILW: hold charge Spiritual Weapon 2/3 Round 9: Kiyo: Drinks a potion of CLW. 5+1-1=5. Damon: Does a jig and attacks. Attack: 18+6=24. Damage: 6+1=7. When disabled (at 0 hps) a character can only take a move action or a standard action each round. So he could draw the potion in round 8, but couldn't drink it before the attack at the end of the round kills him. So he really shouldn't have used any potions: cure light wounds. -Jindl
SnarkHunter 01-31-05, 09:36 AM	Just a note on the Buddha fight Kaigan, the 1st electrical ray only took 1 PP (augmented because of Wild Surge), so the Buddha could have fired off 2 more in the succeding rounds. Just to demonstrate he probably did not need to rely on his horse :).
Dalton Onestone 01-31-05, 09:56 AM	BTW, you don't technically need to list the changes that occur from raging, just like you don't need to list the stats for mounts and animal companions. It does help us pitlords out quite a bit, though, since it means we don't have to flip through books to look things up (as I had to look up the bonuses for raging, since I don't play too many barbarians). http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm is a very readable online version of the SRD. Any animal's stats can be found in two clicks from that page, for example. (Click on the monsters link, then look at the lower right corner area of the resulting page.) So can any feat, psionic or otherwise, any spell or power, and so on. That said, I think people tend to forget the natural armor AC bonus for familiars and little details like that, so a familiar stat block is a good idea (and I was an offender on this last week).
T'Var 01-31-05, 10:00 AM	http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm is a very readable online version of the SRD. Any animal's stats can be found in two clicks from that page, for example. (Click on the monsters link, then look at the lower right corner area of the resulting page.) That said, I think people tend to forget the natural armor AC bonus for familiars and little details like that, so a familiar stat block is a good idea (and I was an offender on this last week). actually I would like to be a Must to list stat block for allies and mounts...running a fight already take screens for 2 char sheets, 2 tactic sheets, a word program and a map. having to look back and forth to monster pages is a major hassle in some fights and yes if you dont list stat blocks, and you say you have armor that makes one more mental note to keep track of, and usually people dont lists tricks if they dont list stats, ect ect ect
Kaigan 01-31-05, 11:17 AM	Just a note on the Buddha fight Kaigan, the 1st electrical ray only took 1 PP (augmented because of Wild Surge), so the Buddha could have fired off 2 more in the succeding rounds. Just to demonstrate he probably did not need to rely on his horse :). Okay, well I will change the fight now.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 11:44 AM	@ LLMadCow: thanks for the rerun. I wish it had gone better for Ala'andor, but you'll get no more complaints from me for this fight. @Pittbull: Huzzah! The Waist-high fist prevails! All shall fear the gnomish power-bomb of doom! Of DOOM!!!! (Translation: Well run fight. I see very few problems.) The one that I do see is this: LLMadCow said something about healing if he got under 10 HP. I noticed he had two chances to do this. Was the power of the gnomish monk so awe-inspiring that he was unable to do anything but gaze in wonder?
T'Var 01-31-05, 11:49 AM	Klaxon's horse has illegal tricks. Attack, Defend, and Track require Dc20 and Klaxon only gets to 19 with a take 10. So his horse cannot have these tricks. Even if you allow it to have the Combat Riding package, it does neither have seek nor track so the horse does not know how to find me. Umm, so a horse trained for war doesnt know attack? the track, seek, or fetch tricks i understand if i have a low handle animal but a "War"horse doesnt have Attack or Defend??? so it wont attack back if i, or it, is attacked....that seems a bit silly
Huan 01-31-05, 11:54 AM	Bare bones of Flower vs Risal Atess (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5354386) is up. Short version: Risal did not do so bad, considering he was fighting against all of Noah's Ark... I am sure he will be cursing that hippogriff.
Kaigan 01-31-05, 12:17 PM	Elder vs. Brandt is up. @Huan: Thanks for the fight. I hate druids, I really do. I mean that the &*%$ am I supposed to do against 3 wolves, a dog, and a hippogriff, not to mention the druid was invisible. And 2 crits from the Hippogriff, geez...[/rant] Lol
Pittbull 01-31-05, 12:17 PM	LLMadCow said something about healing if he got under 10 HP. I noticed he had two chances to do this. Was the power of the gnomish monk so awe-inspiring that he was unable to do anything but gaze in wonder? Sorry I forgot that, LL, i let him drink a potion of CLW and edit the fight. EDIT:FIXED IT!
T'Var 01-31-05, 12:18 PM	Bare bones of Flower vs Risal Atess (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5354386) is up. Short version: Risal did not do so bad, considering he was fighting against all of Noah's Ark... I am sure he will be cursing that hippogriff. omg lol a hippogriff is nasty....but critting twice?!? the only thing i saw though it didnt effect the fight was that my summoned creatures would actually come into being, and attack at the end of the round not the beginning would go, begin summoning on my turn, wolf and dog turn, risal turn, then summoning finishes and hippo attacks, wash and repeat
Jindl 01-31-05, 12:43 PM	Umm, so a horse trained for war doesnt know attack? the track, seek, or fetch tricks i understand if i have a low handle animal but a "War"horse doesnt have Attack or Defend??? so it wont attack back if i, or it, is attacked....that seems a bit silly Warhorses and Riding dogs automatically are trained in the Combat Riding Purpose, which includes the trick: Attack (see the Handle Animal skill description.) -Jindl
Jindl 01-31-05, 12:45 PM	@Huan: Thanks for the fight. I hate druids, I really do. I mean that the &*%$ am I supposed to do against 3 wolves, a dog, and a hippogriff, not to mention the druid was invisible. And 2 crits from the Hippogriff, geez...[/rant] Lol @Kaigan - You realize that Risal has several potions: protection from <alignment>. Those potions protect you from the natural attacks of summoned creatures. Drink one and ignore all of the summons. -Jindl
Beldin 01-31-05, 01:17 PM	@Huan summoned creatures appear just before the beginning of the summoners turn in the next round. So the opponent should get a good chance to iterupt the casting.
Huan 01-31-05, 02:13 PM	@Huan summoned creatures appear just before the beginning of the summoners turn in the next round. So the opponent should get a good chance to iterupt the casting. Noted, but Risal had no way of interrupting the casting, Flower of out of sight range (complete cover), Scent range, and Risal could not find her well enough via listening.
T'Var 01-31-05, 02:18 PM	Warhorses and Riding dogs automatically are trained in the Combat Riding Purpose, which includes the trick: Attack (see the Handle Animal skill description.) -Jindl ahh thank you Jindl
T'Var 01-31-05, 02:35 PM	@Kaigan - You realize that Risal has several potions: protection from <alignment>. Those potions protect you from the natural attacks of summoned creatures. Drink one and ignore all of the summons. -Jindl actually Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. This spell functions like protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks from good creatures, and good summoned creatures cannot touch the subject. the summoning protection only wards against creatures of the same alinment. and since there is no protection from neutrality, the hippogriff and wolfs, which are all true neutral would have been able to attack normally
T'Var 01-31-05, 03:08 PM	Zactor (T'Var) vs Grakk Mightyfist (Aramil Dunskar): Jindl any idea when this one is going to be ran Jindl? thanks
Beldin 01-31-05, 04:04 PM	I read that as: Pro Good wards agains Evil and Neutral, Pro Evil against Good and Neutral.
T'Var 01-31-05, 04:17 PM	I read that as: Pro Good wards agains Evil and Neutral, Pro Evil against Good and Neutral. umm...no....protection FROM evil wards against evil....protection FROM good wards against good, protection from law wards against law, and protection from chaos wards against chaos neutrality is not warded not is it even mentioned by any text in any version of the spell
Jindl 01-31-05, 04:57 PM	umm...no....protection FROM evil wards against evil....protection FROM good wards against good, protection from law wards against law, and protection from chaos wards against chaos neutrality is not warded not is it even mentioned by any text in any version of the spell Beldin is correct. The protection from summoned creatures works against nuetral and the protected alignment. A protection from evil works against any non-good summoned creatures. (ie. Only good summoned creatures can ignore this effect.) A protection from chaos works against any non-lawful summoned creatures. (ie. Only lawful summoned creatures can ignore this effect.) A protection from good works against any non-evil summoned creatures. (ie. Only evil summoned creatures can ignore this effect.) A protection from law works against any non-chaotic summoned creatures. (ie. Only chaotic summoned creatures can ignore this effect.) The other wards that the spell provides only work against the protected alignment (so you don't get the deflection and resistance bonuses against a nuetral PC), or they work all the time regardless of alingment (the blocking of mental control). -Jindl
Jindl 01-31-05, 05:00 PM	Zactor (T'Var) vs Grakk Mightyfist (Aramil Dunskar): Jindl any idea when this one is going to be ran Jindl? thanks Tonight (before 12 midnight, EST).
T'Var 01-31-05, 05:04 PM	Beldin is correct. The protection from summoned creatures works against nuetral and the protected alignment. A protection from evil works against any non-good summoned creatures. (ie. Only good summoned creatures can ignore this effect.) A protection from chaos works against any non-lawful summoned creatures. (ie. Only lawful summoned creatures can ignore this effect.) A protection from good works against any non-evil summoned creatures. (ie. Only evil summoned creatures can ignore this effect.) A protection from law works against any non-chaotic summoned creatures. (ie. Only chaotic summoned creatures can ignore this effect.) The other wards that the spell provides only work against the protected alignment (so you don't get the deflection and resistance bonuses against a nuetral PC), or they work all the time regardless of alingment (the blocking of mental control). -Jindl where did you find this? is it an erata, or rules of the game?
Jindl 01-31-05, 05:10 PM	where did you find this? is it an erata, or rules of the game? You posted it yourself: Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. It says good creatures are immune. It doesn't say good and nuetral creatures are immune. -Jindl
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 06:45 PM	Elisar vs. En Sidious is up. sorry for lack of story. I was kinda rushed.
Caterane 01-31-05, 07:03 PM	I have an issue with the Indri vs Klaxon fight. In this fight, Indri's hide modifier was +23, more even with distance which was most of the times around 100 to 200 ft for another +15 on average. Klaxon's spot is +0 so he shouldn't have found me, and this was my tactic: shoot, move away and hide before he is upon me. Now, Cellardweller had him auto-spot me when I moved from one cover to the next cover. According to him, I need a bluff check to do that. Now I have never heard about such a thing as a bluff check while hiding nor has this been done so before. There is not a single of the 1300 fights in the fights thread where one needed to roll a bluff check to move+hide. We always handled it that - if you pass your hide check - you move unseen between covers. CD doesn't believe me. Can someone please confirm this. Jindl? Ash? Others?
T'Var 01-31-05, 07:13 PM	Now I have never heard about such a thing as a bluff check while hiding nor has this been done so before. There is not a single of the 1300 fights in the fights thread where one needed to roll a bluff check to move+hide. We always handled it that - if you pass your hide check - you move unseen between covers. CD doesn't believe me. Can someone please confirm this. Jindl? Ash? Others? not sure about any bluff skill, but if you loose concealment you are visable, hide auto-fail. its the same as if/when i rode around a corner and negated your cover and if you move out of cover to gain new cover...well if there is a single 5 foot square in between those areas that dont give you a place to hide, you loose concealment
Kaigan 01-31-05, 07:20 PM	@Cat: Here, this is quoted from the SRD. You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway. If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check; see below), though, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. (As a general guideline, the hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide.) This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast. Sniping: If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot. Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use Bluff to help you hide. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Hide check while people are aware of you. So you need cover or concealment to hide. But take this into common sense to. |1|@| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |2| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |3|@| | | | | | You mean to tell me that if you are at position 1 and hiding, that you can get to position 3 maintaining that hide without the opponent at position 2 not being able to see you? It doesn't make sense to me.
Huan 01-31-05, 07:27 PM	And yet ... at the same time (also from the SRD): The Spot skill is used primarily to detect characters or creatures who are hiding. Typically, your Spot check is opposed by the Hide check of the creature trying not to be seen. Sometimes a creature isn’t intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see, so a successful Spot check is necessary to notice it. It seems to me that with a spot of +0, Klaxon simply is not an observant fellow, even if something plainly is in front of him. I would say that a Spot check should have been called for Klaxon to notice Indri at all (opposed by Indri's Hide check, of course). We have all the rules for making a hide check, but few for maintaining one, it seems.
Caterane 01-31-05, 07:27 PM	I am well aware of the SRD rule but in the CoCo we said that you can do this to make steath builds more viable. Read the fights on the fights thread. Everytime we did it that way. This autospot thing kills rogue builds, that's clear isn't it?
Ashenai 01-31-05, 07:37 PM	Cat's right, we've always done it this way. It's not exactly Core, but without anything in the Arena granting concealment, sneaky builds would be absolutely crippled without this rule. If anyone thinks this rule should be revised, I'd love to hear suggestions. But for the fight in question, hiding should be handled as it always has in the Arena.
Arstimis 01-31-05, 07:49 PM	@ OWA: The only problem I saw with the fight is that his magic missle did damage to me, when i have a brooch of sheilding. The only thing this would effect is me not having to use a cure light wounds potion, and losing 7 points from my brooch, everything else seemed fine, so i dont think anything should be changed
LLMadCow 01-31-05, 07:52 PM	I have an issue with the Indri vs Klaxon fight. In this fight, Indri's hide modifier was +23, more even with distance which was most of the times around 100 to 200 ft for another +15 on average. Klaxon's spot is +0 so he shouldn't have found me, and this was my tactic: shoot, move away and hide before he is upon me. Now, Cellardweller had him auto-spot me when I moved from one cover to the next cover. According to him, I need a bluff check to do that. Now I have never heard about such a thing as a bluff check while hiding nor has this been done so before. There is not a single of the 1300 fights in the fights thread where one needed to roll a bluff check to move+hide. We always handled it that - if you pass your hide check - you move unseen between covers. CD doesn't believe me. Can someone please confirm this. Jindl? Ash? Others? If people start Auto-Spotting hiders, ALL stealth builds can be thrown in the trash. The point of the sneaky builds is to have such a HUGE hide and move silently skill that they can kill their opponent without being seen. Here is how I see it: Part of being able to be a good sneaker relies on observing your opponent and knowing when they are facing the wrong way. So, if I succeed on my skills vs his skills, then I chose the right timing. If he beats my checks, then he spotted me.
Piuro 01-31-05, 08:04 PM	Out of curiosity, did i ever get a PL for Fenir?
cellardweller 01-31-05, 10:13 PM	The following fights all use the rule that a bluff check is required to obscure which rock you are hiding behind, so that kills the "we have always done it this way before" argument 2037761,2147276,5337231,3582020,3696142, 4214581,4339552 I know there are more because the I didn't locate particular fight I was looking for (curse the lack of search!). Can a character with Spring Attack who begins her turn hidden move up to a foe, attack him, then return to a position of hiding? Is she considered to be hiding (that is, invisible to the foe) when she makes the attack? What if the character has the camouflage or hide in plain sight class features? Normally, a character can’t make a Hide check right after attacking a foe, since that foe’s attention is now focused on her (even if the attacker started her turn hidden or invisible). The sniping option (on page 76 in the Player’s Handbook) allows a character to make a move action to hide immediately after making a ranged attack against a foe at least 10 feet away, but this doesn’t apply to melee attacks (even those made with reach). Even if the character has Spring Attack, she simply can’t make a Hide check while she is being observed. As far as your second question goes, unless the character’s approach remains entirely in an area where she can hide (that is, an area with sufficient cover or concealment to attempt a Hide check), the character is not considered to be hidden still when she makes the attack. Conceivably, your character might begin her turn hidden in overgrowth, move up through the undergrowth to attack a target, then move back to a hiding place within the plants, having never left the area of concealment. In this case, she’d be considered hidden when she made the attack, although she’d have a –20 penalty on her Hide check. The third part of your question changes the situation entirely. Separately, both the camouflage and hide in plain sight class features make this tactic more useful, but together, they’re incredibly effective. A character with the hide in plain sight class feature (described on page 48 in the Player’s Handbook) can make a Hide check even if she’s being observed. This doesn’t require any extra action to accomplish (unlike the sniping maneuver). The character could attack a foe, then move to a place with sufficient cover or concealment to allow a Hide check, making the Hide check as part of movement. The character doesn’t need Spring Attack to pull this off, although that feat would allow her to move (potentially from a place of hiding, although that’s not necessary), make an attack, and then move again to a place of hiding. Still, unless the character has cover or concealment for her approach, she’s not considered to be hidden when she delivers the attack. The camouflage class feature (also on page 48 in the Player’s Handbook) allows the character to make a Hide check in any sort of natural terrain, even if it doesn’t provide cover or concealment. This means that the character could begin hidden, move up to a target across open terrain, and make an attack while still being considered hidden (although she’d still suffer the –20 penalty on her Hide check). Even if the character has Spring Attack and moves away after the attack, she can’t make a Hide check to hide after the attack. Put all three of these elements together—such as in the hands of a high-level sneaky ranger—and here’s what you get: 1. The character begins his turn hidden (as long as he’s in natural terrain, he doesn’t even need cover or concealment). 2. He moves up to a foe across natural terrain and makes an attack (making a Hide check with a –20 penalty to be considered hiding when he attacks). 3. He then moves back from the foe and makes a new Hide check to disappear from view (again, he doesn’t need cover or concealment while in natural terrain). 4. The foe then, if still standing, says, “Hey, what hit me?!” From this it is very clear that the second you step out from an area that has cover/concealment you are no longer hidden, and your opponent is no longer flat-footed. This doesn't kill sneak builds, it just means that hide is not an invincible defense at low levels. If you want it to be you need to faciliate its use through class features (HiPS, etc) or magic (darkness etc). Without this restriction, there is nothing preventing a maximal-hide character from using "I hide" as a near unbeatable defense.
Huan 01-31-05, 10:59 PM	Yay, last-minute, bare-bones Jindl of the High Forest vs Rex the Kuldjargh (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5359083) is up. Short version: Trying to dodge an attack with a range as long as the entire arena, and having no real plan of attack is not a good formula for winning. -_-; Stories coming soon ... guaranteed tomorrow.
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 11:02 PM	Was Keth's fight ever done?
Jindl 01-31-05, 11:07 PM	Yay, last-minute, bare-bones Jindl of the High Forest vs Rex the Kuldjargh (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5359083) is up. Short version: Trying to doge an attack with a range as long as the entire arena, and having no real plan of attack is not a good formula for winning. -_-; Stories coming soon ... guaranteed tomorrow. Yeah, I don't think stinkygoblin realized that entangle has a range of 400 ft +40 ft/lvl. Well, if anything, the CoCo will teach you something new about DnD. I know I sure have learned a lot here. -Jindl
Snommelp 02-01-05, 12:10 AM	Alexis vs. Moon-moon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5359572) is up. To quote my favorite ogre, "A pox on all cowards in shells!" EDIT: By the way, making armor Masterwork doesn't give a +1 to defense, only a -1 to the armor check penalty. Once again, it's a mistake I've made several times, and only know because I've had several DMs who were munchkinny rules-lawyers.
Sindorin 02-01-05, 12:13 AM	Was Keth's fight ever done? Ditto... has anyone heard from MadCowTemplate?
MadCowTemplate 02-01-05, 12:21 AM	Was Keth's fight ever done? I need tactics for Keth. Please PM them right away so that I can run the fight. I was waiting for tonight, but have no tactics. I will run them with default if I do not get them ASAP.
Dalton Onestone 02-01-05, 12:24 AM	Re the hiding discussion -- as a newcomer here, I've been very confused by hiding rules. I'm glad to see that the prevailing rules that have confused me are very contradictory to the core Rules As Written. If they are not changed, I would urge that they be written out very clearly. I also think they should be changed. Some classes just aren't optimized for arena combat. One way you can identify these classes is to see which ones give the characters lots and lots of skill points meant to be used on non-combat skills. Rogue and Bard head that list.
Piuro 02-01-05, 12:25 AM	Oh crap, thanks to a failure on my part, the tactics for Zeem Z'ayn were the only ones i received. Sorry about this, but I will wait for the tactics to be resent by MadCowTemplate.
Dalton Onestone 02-01-05, 12:25 AM	In the fight comments thread, it was suggested that one solution to Summon Nature's Ally was Hide From Animals (assuming you're unmounted, of course). But hippogriffs are magical beasts. Doesn't that mean they're not animals? EDIT: Oh. This IS the fight comments thread.
Ashenai 02-01-05, 12:26 AM	Wow, Snark, I didn't realize how annoying my tactics would end up being for you. Thanks for your patience in running the fight. Great stuff. :D
Jindl 02-01-05, 12:40 AM	Wow, Snark, I didn't realize how annoying my tactics would end up being for you. Thanks for your patience in running the fight. Great stuff. :D Indeed, sorry for the troublesome tactics. Methinks that I need to rethink the duergar monk. Honestly, I'm not sure how Limit made it work before. So for now the Nameless will be leaving Gladius... -Jindl
Snommelp 02-01-05, 12:47 AM	The duergar monk doesn't work because he does not have the awe-inspiring power of the gnomish monk. The Waist-High Fist is above all of those pathetic immitations! Seriously, though, I think it probably just didn't work because of the LA. ECL hurts monks in movement, AC, damage, etc.
MadCowTemplate 02-01-05, 12:56 AM	Oh crap, thanks to a failure on my part, the tactics for Zeem Z'ayn were the only ones i received. Sorry about this, but I will wait for the tactics to be resent by MadCowTemplate. Tactics for Lora resent to Piuro. No hassle, dude. That's why I keep a copy of all my tactics for a week. :cool:
MadCowTemplate 02-01-05, 01:07 AM	@ Ashenai @ Khaz_Gu I am working on the Ex Nihilo vs. Suggang Krum'shul fight now. Sorry I wait till now, I let work exhaust me all week. But no work tommarrow, so who needs sleep, right? :whatsthis all day, every day = :twitch: Welcome to Starbucks, may I take your hand-eye coordination?
Sindorin 02-01-05, 01:09 AM	Be sure to do Sokai and Keth's fight after that, please :)
Dalton Onestone 02-01-05, 01:20 AM	Hah! I just got Complete Adventurer today, and on Page 101 they have rules for using Hide to sneak up on people. You need 5 ranks in Hide. For every 5 ranks you have, you can move up to 5 feet between hiding places. Every 5 feet gives a -5 penalty on the Hide check, as well as any penalties for moving at more than 1/2 speed (-5, or -10 if you've moving at faster than normal speed). You can also use this option to sneak up on somebody. For every 5 feet of open space between you and the target, you take a -5 penalty on your Hide check. If your Hide check succeeds, they're flatfooted, you can sneak attack, etc. It doesn't say whether this is a straight Hide check or an opposed Hide check. I paraphrased and sampled rather than typing it all out, for reasons both of copyright and of time.
SnarkHunter 02-01-05, 02:28 AM	Last fight's up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5360225#post5360225) Had me guessing till the end. A single turn of the die could have switched it totally.
Caterane 02-01-05, 06:38 AM	The following fights all use the rule that a bluff check is required to obscure which rock you are hiding behind, so that kills the "we have always done it this way before" argument 2037761,2147276,5337231,3582020,3696142, 4214581,4339552 I know there are more because the I didn't locate particular fight I was looking for (curse the lack of search!). I checked the fights. The first two ones, run by Barrelmaster and Jindl, had no bluff check in conjunction with hide and move silently. The third link is no fight at all but leads to the miniatures forum. The fourth fight run by Kazzaroth has no bluff check in the whole fight. The fifth fight is run by Kedi and has indeed a bluff check but that one is needed to hide while he was engaged in combat, which is ok. In my case I was already very well hidden (with a margin of ~40 points) so I don't think I need a bluff check on top of that. From this it is very clear that the second you step out from an area that has cover/concealment you are no longer hidden, and your opponent is no longer flat-footed. As I said, I am aware of the official ruling but it is being handled differently here because of the lack of obstacles to hide behind. The arena is very sneak unfriendly as it is, and instead of adding new and bigger rocks which would hamper other builds in return, we just said you can move between covers without beeing autospotted. This doesn't kill sneak builds, it just means that hide is not an invincible defense at low levels. If you want it to be you need to faciliate its use through class features (HiPS, etc) or magic (darkness etc). Without this restriction, there is nothing preventing a maximal-hide character from using "I hide" as a near unbeatable defense. There are definately enough and cheap ways to find a rogue; even Kelek with his +70 hide was no problem for the +5 Spot Harvester. Even at lvl 3, there are spells like glitterdust, scenting allies, faery fire, etc etc. The sneaker might move unseen but he will be autospotted if he attacks in melee and sniping is made at -20 hide. I haven't seen any game breaking effect coming from stealth builds. Well Cellar, it's up to you. I don't want to press the issue any longer; correct it or leave it as it is. I accept the loss if you decide so. In any case, this should be revisited in the Council to get a concrete definition of this issue.
Dalton Onestone 02-01-05, 06:45 AM	On the other hand, a rogue could be the one to invest in a potion of invisibility, and then the need to bend the core rules would also be greatly reduced. Anyhow, you're right on the main point, Cat, which is that this is exactly the kind of vague "secret rule" that should be clarified for newcomers to not feel as hopeless. Of course, I've figured the ultimate newcomer trick; disposable characters. Kwerrock is my second dwarf cleric from the Magic and Luck domains, and I'm working on my third consecutive gray elf wizard. (I think this one will be named GrandElf the Gray.)
Caterane 02-01-05, 06:54 AM	On the other hand, a rogue could be the one to invest in a potion of invisibility, and then the need to bend the core rules would also be greatly reduced. Anyhow, you're right on the main point, Cat, which is that this is exactly the kind of vague "secret rule" that should be clarified for newcomers to not feel as hopeless. Of course, I've figured the ultimate newcomer trick; disposable characters. Kwerrock is my second dwarf cleric from the Magic and Luck domains, and I'm working on my third consecutive gray elf wizard. (I think this one will be named GrandElf the Gray.) A potion of invisibility (300 gp) is no solution since it gives you 1 free attack, if at all, for there are many counters. You also can't make it depended on expensive items; like you cannot fine a fighter to go into melee. Rogues need a persistant free method to do their job, and since rogues are currently more or less the weakest class in the arena, I am not afraid to see the "invincible rogue" anytime soon. re: new character.... use the new sheet :)
cellardweller 02-01-05, 07:04 AM	I checked the fights. The first two ones, run by Barrelmaster and Jindl, had no bluff check in conjunction with hide and move silently. The third link is no fight at all but leads to the miniatures forum. The fourth fight run by Kazzaroth has no bluff check in the whole fight. The fifth fight is run by Kedi and has indeed a bluff check but that one is needed to hide while he was engaged in combat, which is ok. In my case I was already very well hidden (with a margin of ~40 points) so I don't think I need a bluff check on top of that. Check the tactics for the fights which you didn't find any. Well Cellar, it's up to you. I don't want to press the issue any longer; correct it or leave it as it is. I accept the loss if you decide so. I am leaving it as is for two reasons - 1) My memory of the last time this came up is in direct contradiction to yours and Ash's, but you haven't been able to show me that I am wrong (understandable with the lack search capablities) 2) it is logistically difficult for me to do a re-run at this point because of the timezone diference. In any case, this should be revisited in the Council to get a concrete definition of this issue. You'll get no argument here :D
T'Var 02-01-05, 08:32 AM	Ohh thats it.....Zactor demands a rematch vs Grakk !! :rant: lucky crit with massive dmg :rant: Hmm guess a heavy warhorse doesnt auto win matchs for the owner...im shocked.... @Jindl well im a bad caster so i totally forgot about being able to use scrolls lol
T'Var 02-01-05, 09:34 AM	@Pitlord its been some time since the pairing board has been updated, are there any matchs that still need to be ran?
Dalton Onestone 02-01-05, 10:46 AM	A potion of invisibility (300 gp) is no solution since it gives you 1 free attack, if at all, for there are many counters. You also can't make it depended on expensive items; like you cannot fine a fighter to go into melee. Rogues need a persistant free method to do their job, and since rogues are currently more or less the weakest class in the arena, I am not afraid to see the "invincible rogue" anytime soon. Why is it important to make a class competitive in the arena when it was never designed to be competitive in one-on-one combat? And if you ARE following that policy, what rules changes do you have in mind for bards? I'd suggest starting by not cutting them to 1/3 their uses of bardic music, so that they can sing, spellcast, and then sing again. re: new character.... use the new sheet :) Sorry, but I'll probably cut and paste and edit from the old ones. :D
T'Var 02-01-05, 10:51 AM	one thing people are failing to realize is arena battles cannnot be placed in the relm of a campain setting! How often have (in a campain) you gone one on one with a foe...Ill tell you in 15 years of gaming its happened to me all of 5 times...rouges are weak and that shows in the arena thats because a rouge doesnt go head to head with people. they shouldnt unless they are a much better plan of attack not artifical rule changes to make them better than they are. giving one class a rule change advantage is unfair to every other class
Pitlords 02-01-05, 11:43 AM	@Pitlord its been some time since the pairing board has been updated, are there any matchs that still need to be ran? Yeah, my bad. Roster is now updated. There are still 4 unfinished fights. The three pitlords responsible get late penalties. Please get those fights in ASAP.
MadCowTemplate 02-01-05, 12:54 PM	Ex Nihilo vs Suggang is run and posted. I am now proceeding to run Sokai vs Keth'Arian'Kari. I shall check again to see if I have tactics before starting.
T'Var 02-01-05, 01:45 PM	Ex Nihilo vs Suggang Krum'shul something that didnt effect the outcome, masterwork doesnt add dmg just to-hit so Suggang's arrow shots each did 1 less dmg
OdinTheReaper 02-01-05, 04:07 PM	@snark: How many arrows did we use in the fight? Thats it oh and sorry for the error, i completely forgot about the +1 thing. :banghead: I have fixed it btw.
SnarkHunter 02-01-05, 04:19 PM	@snark: How many arrows did we use in the fight? Thats it oh and sorry for the error, i completely forgot about the +1 thing. :banghead: I have fixed it btw. 23 a piece. Did you like the descriptions by the by? I was trying to imagine how your characters might react ;)
One_Winged_Angel 02-01-05, 07:19 PM	@MadCow: Guess My PM box is more F****d up than I thought. I sent you tactics 3 times now. I guess its just messed up. On the fight: You do know that distance incures penalties to spot checks? -1 per 10 ft is the rule. Nothing fight altering, just thought I'd let you know.
OdinTheReaper 02-01-05, 07:35 PM	@Snark: Okay thanks.....the descriptions earn a clap also because they were very amusing :clap:.
LLMadCow 02-01-05, 07:42 PM	@MadCow: @OWA - Please specify which MadCow you are referring to..... @ALL - I am making a request. I, LLMadCow, was here first. MadCowTemplate followed me here and stole my name. So, what I am asking is that you refer to him as McTemplate and allow me to continue my use of LL & MadCow to full effect. Thanks.
One_Winged_Angel 02-01-05, 07:56 PM	@OWA - Please specify which MadCow you are referring to..... @ALL - I am making a request. I, LLMadCow, was here first. MadCowTemplate followed me here and stole my name. So, what I am asking is that you refer to him as McTemplate and allow me to continue my use of LL & MadCow to full effect. Thanks. How about MCT. I normally just refer to you as LL, so I kinda forgot.
Piuro 02-01-05, 10:02 PM	Zeem vs. Lora is up. That was the most amazing dice roll ive ever seen.
Pittbull 02-02-05, 02:49 AM	23 a piece. Did you like the descriptions by the by? I was trying to imagine how your characters might react ;) Thanks, nice discriptions, but didn't like the last round! ;)
Huan 02-02-05, 03:38 PM	Incredible... after all my computer troubles .... I still manage to write short stories for all 3 of my fights .. and turn it in about 30 minutes before the new pairings ... too close for comfort (that's it, time to dump this computer): KoRn vs Necavi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5341771) Flower vs Risal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5354386) Jindl vs Rex (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5359083)