Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 12-12-07, 05:16 PM	Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. News & Whatnot Monster fights are still under discussion in the Council, but activity has died down in recent days. Is there enough to put the issue to rest? What still needs to be done? In the courtroom, there's a question about how to handle Smokesticks. I am the only elder to have made a comment there - it would be nice to have further comment (elder and non-elder alike). Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindwandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
lonewolf 12-12-07, 05:41 PM	ECL6 looks really interesting this week. 2 Kineticists 1 Pixie 1 Ghost Im hoping for some kind of multiplayer fight. :D btw: Is it just me, or is the Quest roster hopelessly outdated?
TelinArtho 12-12-07, 05:43 PM	I was just looking over my active characters and realized I didn't have one (other that Bulgar on quest and Kraegin and Ialgo crafting)... I could have sworn I activated someone... I just can't figure out who... Oh well - crafting is fun.
MindWandererB 12-12-07, 05:51 PM	ECL6 looks really interesting this week. 2 Kineticists 1 Pixie 1 Ghost Im hoping for some kind of multiplayer fight. :D btw: Is it just me, or is the Quest roster hopelessly outdated? The pairingsmaker came up with this: Flutterthought (MindWandererB) & Felice tu'Ria (Salrantol) vs. Solstice (Erithmu) & Darian Thorne (lonewolf) : XXXXX [Temple] [Team] Unless someone volunteers to take that one, I'm using GM prerogative to change that. I don't like doing that when it involves one of my characters, but I have more respect for people's sanity than that. Edit: Actually, it may not be that bad. It's in the temple, so Darian will be able to find Flutterthought. The two kineticists can make short work of each other and of the high-LA characters. If it were another map, I'd redo it, but I think this'll be okay. Yeah, the quest roster is out of date. It doesn't serve any practical purpose, so I don't consider it a priority and I often forget it. The questlog does the job just as well.
lonewolf 12-12-07, 05:54 PM	In the temple that isnt too bad... I would take it if my character wouldnt be involved. @quest roster: In that case, I think its better to remove it entirely instead of having a outdated information up.
MindWandererB 12-12-07, 06:54 PM	Pairings done. It's one of those weeks.... @Stormwind, note you have an MQ pickup. Credits: Callix F2 Erithmu F2 Q2 C3 lonewolf F2 A-1 Macbrea F1 Stormwind F1 Taureus_Drakken F1 TelinArtho F1 A1 templer10 F5 whitebaron F2 A-1 MindWandererB A2 A-2 SauroGrenom A1 Key: F=Fight, Q=Quest, C=Campaign, G=Guildmaster, A=Admin or Active Characters
lonewolf 12-12-07, 07:00 PM	Longshot Monster Info: 3 large giants
McJarvis 12-12-07, 09:08 PM	Pairings done. It's one of those weeks.... @Stormwind, note you have an MQ pickup. Credits: Callix F2 Erithmu F2 Q2 C3 lonewolf F2 A-1 Macbrea F1 Stormwind F1 Taureus_Drakken F1 TelinArtho F1 A1 templer10 F5 whitebaron F2 A-1 MindWandererB A2 A-2 SauroGrenom A1 Key: F=Fight, Q=Quest, C=Campaign, G=Guildmaster, A=Admin or Active Characters I believe Marius is facing the same opponent from last week- but if the fact that it's a team fight as opposed to 1v1 makes a difference, I don't mind the pairing.
Callix 12-12-07, 10:05 PM	@Stormwind: Monster rolled. No knowledges, 1 Small biped & 1 Medium quadruped.
MindWandererB 12-12-07, 10:07 PM	I believe Marius is facing the same opponent from last week- but if the fact that it's a team fight as opposed to 1v1 makes a difference, I don't mind the pairing. Yeah, it does make a difference, as does the map change. Should be a substantially different fight.
TelinArtho 12-12-07, 11:37 PM	@lonewolf - monster info is up for Therador. Not much to work with, but that's the way it is some days...
templer10 12-13-07, 03:11 AM	Macbrea - monster for izumi has been rolled - 1 large 4 legged creature - have fun. on another note - how the hell i drew 3 fights + the ECL 6 ffa from hell... i sense some Hate from MWB...
whitebaron 12-13-07, 03:24 AM	Macbrea - monster for izumi has been rolled - 1 large 4 legged creature - have fun. on another note - how the hell i drew 3 fights + the ECL 6 ffa from hell... i sense some Hate from MWB... it's probably due to me having no time for pitlording much :) one of those fights would have gone to me, but you know - it's one of these times of the year where you absolutely have no time. @mwb: the str+2 item should be gauntlets. i just didn't have the time to look up whether belt or gauntlets can be made +2. thnx for doing the crafting bit after the pm by mucki... @mucki: you should have sent the pm to pitlords, not mwb directly. forgot to mention that. @mcj: i'm meeting the same guy, too. lets beat them to crumples. :)
Stormwind 12-13-07, 03:40 AM	<snip> @Stormwind, note you have an MQ pickup. <snip> Noted. Will get things moving today.
MindWandererB 12-13-07, 04:05 AM	on another note - how the hell i drew 3 fights + the ECL 6 ffa from hell... i sense some Hate from MWB...You volunteered for 3+1 offer; I gave you the team fight (not FFA, and since it's in the temple I don't think it'll be that bad), an Izumi monster fight (Hulk Smash!) and two ECL 3's. It'll be the easiest week you've had in a while.
templer10 12-13-07, 04:19 AM	You volunteered for 3+1 offer; I gave you the team fight (not FFA, and since it's in the temple I don't think it'll be that bad), an Izumi monster fight (Hulk Smash!) and two ECL 3's. It'll be the easiest week you've had in a while. didn't notice it's a team - that is easier. last wek was actually the easiest - 1 surrender and all the rest were VERY one sided if i remmber correctly.
Durzulgor 12-13-07, 06:41 AM	@McJarvis: I know there has already been a discussion regarding you beiing enlarged and thus to heavy for your mount to carry, once. The thing is: I might have to come up with this again! Enlarge Person: This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. ... All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Thus: You: 80 Military Saddle: 30 (its 30lbs and costs 20gp (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/goodsAndServices.html), you actually mixed that up) Battleaxe: 8 Guisame: 12 Lance 10 Longbow: 3 Arrows: 9 Spell CP: 2 ___________ = 154 lbs 154*8= 1232lbs I come up with a medium load for your camel, once you're both enlarged, but please correct me if I'm wrong!
McJarvis 12-13-07, 08:30 AM	@McJarvis: I know there has already been a discussion regarding you beiing enlarged and thus to heavy for your mount to carry, once. The thing is: I might have to come up with this again! Thus: You: 80 Military Saddle: 30 (its 30lbs and costs 20gp (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/goodsAndServices.html), you actually mixed that up) Battleaxe: 8 Guisame: 12 Lance 10 Longbow: 3 Arrows: 9 Spell CP: 2 ___________ = 154 lbs 154*8= 1232lbs I come up with a medium load for your camel, once you're both enlarged, but please correct me if I'm wrong! Equipment weight is only doubled. The 8x weight increase is for the creature, which is not specified elsewhere.
Macbrea 12-13-07, 08:38 AM	Also, enlarging the person doesn't enlarge the equipment of the mount. The saddle is on the mount, not the person I hope.
McJarvis 12-13-07, 08:49 AM	Also, enlarging the person doesn't enlarge the equipment of the mount. The saddle is on the mount, not the person I hope. The spell is shared with the mount in this case, so the saddle would get enlarged.
hogarth 12-13-07, 08:56 AM	Equipment weight is only doubled. The 8x weight increase is for the creature, which is not specified elsewhere. Note that this issue was discussed in the context of Reduce Animal on Elrick's dire bat, and the ruling for the fight was that equipment's weight was indeed reduced by a factor of 8 because of the "similarly reduced" wording. You might want to get an official clarification from an Elder.
McJarvis 12-13-07, 09:03 AM	Note that this issue was discussed in the context of Reduce Animal on Elrick's dire bat, and the ruling for the fight was that equipment's weight was indeed reduced by a factor of 8 because of the "similarly reduced" wording. You might want to get an official clarification from an Elder. Hmm. It's been treated as 2x for all of TIM's life and now Thorell. [easily 10-15 fights & close to 8 months?] If this is the case, I may need to request a credit refund.
Stormwind 12-13-07, 09:05 AM	@ Vathelokai: Tactics for Varjo's agent in the King of the Hill playtest have been sent. @Callix: I assume the change in Varjo's opponent from '1 Small biped' to '1 Small biped & 1 Medium quadruped' simply reflects the purchase of a horse (or similar) and not a reroll of her opponent? Expect tactics tonight (in about 6 hours). @Salrantol: Miniquest updated, round 12 coming soon - let's get this finished ;)
Durzulgor 12-13-07, 09:20 AM	Equipment weight is only doubled. The 8x weight increase is for the creature, which is not specified elsewhere. That is exactly the point I just couldn't find, sorry for bringing it up again, but you're a bit to fast for me, need to slow you down somehow! ;-) Do you have any reference why the equipment's weight should only be doubled?
McJarvis 12-13-07, 09:28 AM	That is exactly the point I just couldn't find, sorry for bringing it up again, but you're a bit to fast for me, need to slow you down somehow! ;-) Do you have any reference why the equipment's weight should only be doubled? Because large-sized equipment is 2x the weight of medium equipment. That's just the way I've always done these encounters- heck, The Illustrated Man [TIM] used this same strategy and got to GR on it. I'd hate to think that I had an illegal GR character :-) The way I've always treated the spell[enlarge person] in CoCo is that the 8x mod is there because there is no reference outside of the spell for the weight of "larger" humanoids. There is such a reference for all the equipment- so I used that. I see where people are coming from on the 8x thing- but I just don't see it as making any sense. [my large waraxe would weigh 2x but my enlarged waraxe that happens to be large weighs 8x? Yet they are made of the same materials and are the same size?] edit- Also note that if the weapons/items are "similarly" enlarged in every way, they would double in height. This is, however, nonsensical, since items do not have an actual "height". [My rope is 6' tall? ;) ]
mucki 12-13-07, 10:15 AM	@Vath: tactics for playtest fight sent. @MwB: maybe you should announce new playtest fights in the "pairings done" post. Since you don't have to set yourself "active" for it and they are not common, it came a bit unexpected :)
Durzulgor 12-13-07, 10:30 AM	Ah! I found what you meant under the "weapons" and "armor" sections: Weight: This column gives the weight of a Medium version of the weapon. Halve this number for Small weapons and double it for Large weapons. Weight: This column gives the weight of the armor sized for a Medium wearer. Armor fitted for Small characters weighs half as much, and armor for Large characters weighs twice as much. Sounds strange to me, since this is also an increase in size of 2x2x2, but well, thats the rules. I just didn't find any entry under "equipment".
CrazyArtificer 12-13-07, 10:48 AM	@Callix: tactics for Uranedal vs Korwald sent.
McJarvis 12-13-07, 10:52 AM	Ah! I found what you meant under the "weapons" and "armor" sections: Sounds strange to me, since this is also an increase in size of 2x2x2, but well, thats the rules. I just didn't find any entry under "equipment". I'm pretty sure equipment changes- like a wondrous item with weight for a small character should weigh less. I just don't recall off the top of my head where that would be written. I just remember there are tons of different modifiers depending on what kind of item is changed. Weight systems in D&D are not fun to work with. Oh- about the fight- since you don't have a way to detect invis and I have a mediocre(scent) way at best- would you agree to an invisible-less fight? Technically you could blow 3 scrolls to outlast me, but I think neither of us wants the fight to come down to that. (edit- basically, I don't want to burden the pitlord with two-sided stall tactics)
lonewolf 12-13-07, 10:52 AM	all my tactics are sent EDIT: except for the playtest fight. But Im gonna need Monster Info for that one.
TelinArtho 12-13-07, 11:03 AM	Therador Goldscale (lonewolf) vs 2 Half-Red Dragon Digesters (Unknown Monster) is up.
lonewolf 12-13-07, 11:50 AM	Stupid monsters with breath weapons. 2 in a row... on another note: Sunstroke vs Undurion is up. Its quite suprising how long they managed to NOT hit each other.
Durzulgor 12-13-07, 12:18 PM	@McJ: I'd rather not agree to anything. Let's say it this way: It's not really shure if I'll use invis! ;-) I just like to keep my options!
McJarvis 12-13-07, 01:00 PM	@McJ: I'd rather not agree to anything. Let's say it this way: It's not really shure if I'll use invis! ;-) I just like to keep my options! As you wish- though I think the fight would be more interesting without it. An alpha strike build with three scrolls of invis doesn't really reserve the element of surprise on "if" they are going to use it ;)
Stormwind 12-13-07, 02:48 PM	@Salrantol: Round 12 is up, waiting for Kilor and Salrantol's actions.
Salrantol 12-13-07, 03:08 PM	Kilor and Salrantol's actions up.
Vathelokai 12-13-07, 03:45 PM	# Monster Takedown: Samuel (lonewolf) vs. Psibeast (Vathelokai) vs. Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) : whitebaron [Cavern] # King of the Hill: Krusk's agent (mucki) vs. Varjo's agent (Stormwind) vs. Maya's agent (MindWandererB) : Vathelokai [Arena]Still waiting on MWBs tactics for Maya's agent. Will get out Psibeasts tactics later (most likely late tonight).
Stormwind 12-13-07, 04:56 PM	@Calix: Varjo's tactics sent.
templer10 12-13-07, 06:21 PM	Lonewolf - longshot's tactics VS 3 fire giants are out - man that's a lot of HP, might be the first time in a long time i actually run out of PPS.
MindWandererB 12-13-07, 06:56 PM	@Vath: tactics for playtest fight sent. @MwB: maybe you should announce new playtest fights in the "pairings done" post. Since you don't have to set yourself "active" for it and they are not common, it came a bit unexpected :)Sorry... since there's no deadline for those, I figured everyone would be more relaxed about it, and when people noticed it they'd notice it. Similarly:Still waiting on MWBs tactics for Maya's agent.I totally forgot I could do that already. I have some errands to run today, so look for them this evening.on another note: Sunstroke vs Undurion is up. Its quite suprising how long they managed to NOT hit each other.Really? It doesn't surprise me at all, seeing as how we both have attack bonuses of a whopping +2. Mountie archers are my bane for a few levels.
Durzulgor 12-13-07, 08:26 PM	Sunstroke vs Undurion is up. Its quite suprising how long they managed to NOT hit each other. Hey! Undurion is NOT Mineau!!! (results section)
MindWandererB 12-13-07, 09:28 PM	I totally forgot I could do that already. I have some errands to run today, so look for them this evening.And done. All my tactics except for the team battle have been sent out. And I think we have a general idea for the team battle, we just have to hammer out the specifics.
Durzulgor 12-13-07, 11:33 PM	@templer10: tactics for Durzulgor I sent.
Callix 12-13-07, 11:44 PM	Has anyone seen Taureus_Drakken? Rennae still hasn't gotten her monster info. I gave Taureus some basic "generic tactics", but I'd appreciate any chance to get proper tactics done. At this point, though, it looks like I won't get them, as I don't have 'net access through the US Friday-Saturday (Aussie weekend). Oh well, here's hoping 23 pp, Touchsight, Ego Whip and Energy Missile can make up for potentially poor tactics.
Taureus_Drakken 12-14-07, 04:33 AM	I am really sorry Callix. When I read this weeks pairings, I totally missed having a monster fight. Unfortunately for you, you lack ranks in the one Knowledge that would help. All I can say is: "Two, large monsters." ~Taureus~
whitebaron 12-14-07, 07:56 AM	monster and other info for the monster takedown community playtest: first of all, this will be the hill - 40x40 since i will leave the monster close to it. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=cavern;a=Name,C,12,19;s tyle=s the monster will likely guard its lair in the middle, and leave it only if personally threatened or someone enters its LoS. note that part of the large statues will be still there, so you'll be able to buff up. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=cavern;a=Name,C,12,19;b =Name,M,1,30;n=Effect,16,15,10;style=s;o pacity=60 Initial LoS. after it is broken by someone, the monster will attack any being it encounters. Since it's only a playtest fight, i reserved the right for me to choose a monster instead of roll it, to make things more interesting than in the last fight. And here it is, the Monster Info: 1 Huge 4-legged and winged beast. further info will be given via pm once i check the knowledges. side question: are monsters in this kind of competition handed out equipment? if so, i'll need to pm it to vath, too. - send it to you tomorrow. - don't hurry your tactics - i'll likely do it the weekend before x-mas ...
lonewolf 12-14-07, 11:30 AM	Hey! Undurion is NOT Mineau!!! (results section) copy/paste error => fixed
whitebaron 12-14-07, 11:45 AM	@erithmu: tactics for verren and marius sent. @t10: tactics for lelenia should be aready there quite some time, but since i had forum problems - pm me if it isnt. tactics for gak vs eds received.
Turanson 12-14-07, 11:55 AM	@erithmu: tactic for Mineau sent
Erithmu 12-14-07, 12:48 PM	@McJ,Mac,WB,Tura: Tactics received. Reply sent to Tura.
MindWandererB 12-14-07, 04:18 PM	side question: are monsters in this kind of competition handed out equipment? if so, i'll need to pm it to vath, too. - send it to you tomorrow. - don't hurry your tactics - i'll likely do it the weekend before x-mas ...Normal monster rules, so yeah, it gets gear. I hope this isn't too ugly....
whitebaron 12-14-07, 04:49 PM	Normal monster rules, so yeah, it gets gear. I hope this isn't too ugly.... i chose the monster, so no, it won't get too ugly. :) on a side note: 2 out of 3 players like the idea of making it a thread-based fight. will wait for hirumajoe's answer and then set it up... valen's the one to profit he most, as he'll see things he would not know normally since he does not have the proper knowledge at all...
MindWandererB 12-14-07, 04:55 PM	@templer: Salrantol hasn't responded to my last PM from about 40 hours ago, which is why team tactics from us are late. I don't have time right now, but as I think I know what we're doing, I'll send you something in a few hours.
Salrantol 12-14-07, 05:26 PM	@templer: Salrantol hasn't responded to my last PM from about 40 hours ago, which is why team tactics from us are late. I don't have time right now, but as I think I know what we're doing, I'll send you something in a few hours.I wrote up a response about 5 hours afterwards and here I was wondering why you hadn't replied to my reply, but I see this post and I look in my sent items and don't see it. I'll have to rewrite it here real quick.
MindWandererB 12-14-07, 05:40 PM	I wrote up a response about 5 hours afterwards and here I was wondering why you hadn't replied to my reply, but I see this post and I look in my sent items and don't see it. I'll have to rewrite it here real quick. I got this one. But I'll have to respond in a few hours.
templer10 12-15-07, 09:35 AM	HULK!!! SMASH!!!! otherwise known as Izumi vs nessian warhound is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14589424&postcount=1566).
lonewolf 12-15-07, 05:54 PM	Longshot vs 3 Fire Giants is up.
Callix 12-16-07, 06:51 AM	Two shadows vs a werehawk ranger is up. Now which was the monster, and which the PC? I thought it was going to be harder than that, but the ranger needed too much buff time. With Magic Fang up, the whole fight would've been much harder, but Silence, Chameleon and Shield of Faith seemed more important, and then you were almost on top of him. Well done, Stormwind.
Stormwind 12-16-07, 10:15 AM	Two shadows vs a werehawk ranger is up. Now which was the monster, and which the PC? :D Are Monsters monstrous by nature or simply by virtue of not being PC's ;) I thought it was going to be harder than that, but the ranger needed too much buff time. With Magic Fang up, the whole fight would've been much harder, but Silence, Chameleon and Shield of Faith seemed more important, and then you were almost on top of him. Well done, Stormwind.@Calix: Thanks for the run :D Just a note with the rewards, the Ongoing effects should be: Prebuffs/Ongoing Effects: Deeper darkness (4 days 18 hours), Magic aura (18 hours)
templer10 12-16-07, 10:31 AM	Longshot vs 3 Fire Giants is up. thanks for the run - you forgot to list PPS spent and time passed and continung effects - this wasnt the last fight in the 3fc.
templer10 12-16-07, 01:56 PM	thorel vs durzulgor is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14597575&postcount=1568)
lonewolf 12-16-07, 03:49 PM	thanks for the run - you forgot to list PPS spent and time passed and continung effects - this wasnt the last fight in the 3fc. Oh, I thought it was. I´ll fix that tomorrow.
MindWandererB 12-16-07, 04:47 PM	thorel vs durzulgor is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14597575&postcount=1568) We generally assume that everyone knows what spellcasting is. For instance, you don't need Spellcraft to ready an action to disrupt spellcasting.
templer10 12-16-07, 05:04 PM	We generally assume that everyone knows what spellcasting is. For instance, you don't need Spellcraft to ready an action to disrupt spellcasting. The guy that was casting did so while invisible - he had no way to see the spellcasting to even get a hint so he can understand it's spellcasting - with that and no spellcraft to recognize by hearing - he had no hint from that either. also Since by listen check alone he didnt beath the DC by 10 he couldnt even understand the languge so he had absolutly no frame of refrence to know it's spellcasting or that's it's even noise made by a person.
McJarvis 12-16-07, 06:17 PM	@Durz: Nice tactics, but you should know that silent images are not creatures. Had Thorell decided to go invis, it would have resulted in him pummeling silent images with arrows over and over until you gave up on the idea. Attacking non-creatures does not make invis wear off. (regardless of what the invisible creature thinks they are attacking) That's why I wanted a non-invis fight. We both had no way of detecting invis critters & no way of baiting the other out of invis. Poor temp would have had to do a 40-roundish fight. I never really like those kinds of fights- so I just wanted something more "straight up" than a "who can cast invisibility a few rounds after the second person so it'll pay off in 30 rounds" fight. [which is pretty much what it would have been- and from the looks of it]. edit- you should probably also be warned that you cannot create 5 images with a single casting of silent image. It specifies you can only create 1 image of a creature or object- and how big that creature/object image is is what the multiple squares means. @T10: He gets to force melee despite his tactics not saying to force it in this manner? My tactics were written the way they were because I fully expected him to think I would go invis- but this improv just lost me my surprise factor. :( And you don't think Thorell would have known he was going up against an enlaged foe when the foe has a wand of enlarge person? O_o I'd rather you not change things tho- I'm content with a loss as is, and I don't want you to edit a fight where the outcome wouldn't obviously change. [it would just make it a toss-up]
Erithmu 12-16-07, 07:05 PM	Mineau + Matsuni vs Verren + Marius is up ...
whitebaron 12-17-07, 03:44 AM	Mineau + Matsuni vs Verren + Marius is up ... i'm glad they missed the true strikes. still wondering how verren could survive though - maybe the starting box dice luck was enough. :) minor mistake - verrens and matsuni's position in round 5 is incorrect (should be 73/73 for matsuni, verren has not yet moved from 89/89), round 6 is correct for matsuni, still wrong for verren(89/89), round 7 is again correct for both. obviously, i have no objections to the result. with marius hitting over 50% of the time and over 200 bolts left, even the lots of vigors remaining should be no problem.
Durzulgor 12-17-07, 07:14 AM	Attacking non-creatures does not make invis wear off. (regardless of what the invisible creature thinks they are attacking) hmm? I always thought an attack would end invis. Especially after reading this little sentence under Invisibility (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsHtoL.html#invisibility): Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions. edit- you should probably also be warned that you cannot create 5 images with a single casting of silent image. It specifies you can only create 1 image of a creature or object- and how big that creature/object image is is what the multiple squares means. hmm, I guess that means I'll have to have them connected next time, so they're still "1 object"! ;-) He gets to force melee despite his tactics not saying to force it in this manner? actually my tactics where a little incomplete again, I should've included the possibility of you, not being invisible at all, but since I wrote: If at any point he charges/attacks my figment: stop concentrating, drop the wand, charge (base him)... and since shooting is attacking, I'd have gone to melee soon enough! ;-)
McJarvis 12-17-07, 08:00 AM	hmm? I always thought an attack would end invis. Right- who a foe depends on the creatures perceptions, but that doesn't remove the requirement that what is attacked be a creature. For instance- if you tried to sunder a chest while invisible & it was a mimic, invisibility would wear off. Invisibility doesn't wear off when you attack(examples: sundering rope, or any other object, just swinging your sword through the air, etc, etc)- it wears off when you attack a creature. So the spell states.... 1) Invis wears off when you "attack" a creature. 2) Further clarification: "attack"-ing a creature includes any spell whose area or effect includes the foe. It's important to note that the addendum is just about spells. For instance- you can obviously use physical attacks such as traps set by you to include the foe in area/effect & it won't negate invisibility. I guess another example would be if you were just swinging your sword through the air while blind. You'd be invisible until you attacked a square a creature was in. hmm, I guess that means I'll have to have them connected next time, so they're still "1 object"! ;-) Then I'd just attack the version of you that wasn't a part of a huge space. It would be self-evident :-) I'm pretty sure there's no mechanic for "holding hands" across spaces. Also- you should probably note that concentration spells require a standard action to run every round, so you couldn't have performed a full-round of actions while dictating the images to do so. I believe Hogarth used minor wondrous items to get around this requirement- he just had his psicrystal create the image//concetrate on it. Also Also- Templer mentioned that interaction is vague. It is not. The RotG article on illusions clarfied extensively. As I recall, a character needs to take an action that interacts with the illusion in some way for the saving throw to be made. So.... Walking into a room with the illusion would not require a save. Taking a move-action to look at the illusion would allow a save. Attacking the illusion would allow a save etc, etc. Also on the list would be if the illusion attacked someone[interaction on the illusion's part] This is the other reason the silent image wand is not good against an invisible foe with a good will save. They can just specify in tactics to take a move action to study you when they see you & pass the will save. [with a DC11, Thorell(for instance) will be auto-passing in no time] final edit- since we're just talking about general strategy and not a specific fight anymore, if you want to respond to all this bring it to the tavarn.
lonewolf 12-17-07, 03:10 PM	@templer: Did you get my PMs? Because I think that especially the second one could dramatically alter the fight you are running right now.
templer10 12-17-07, 03:31 PM	@templer: Did you get my PMs? Because I think that especially the second one could dramatically alter the fight you are running right now. got them - fortunently (for me - or i would have thrown something at the computer) - the e-missiles still hit despite the concealment.
lonewolf 12-17-07, 03:34 PM	*sigh* I fear that there goes my undefeated record... :weep:
templer10 12-17-07, 03:35 PM	*sigh* I fear that there goes my undefeated record... :weep: yup
templer10 12-17-07, 03:40 PM	The ecl 6 team fight is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14605817&postcount=1572) - good tactics all around - at the end it was a horse (of course) who won the day. lonewolf - at least you lost it in a fair fight and not to 3 vampire annis hags in the sewers...
hogarth 12-17-07, 04:12 PM	I just noticed these lines in The Eternal Dreamless Sleep's tactics: "The horses will be left at home. Snake-Eyes, MK, & Lucky will be standing behind them." I hope that doesn't mean we auto-lose! :weep:
whitebaron 12-17-07, 04:21 PM	I just noticed these lines in The Eternal Dreamless Sleep's tactics: "The horses will be left at home. Snake-Eyes, MK, & Lucky will be standing behind them." I hope that doesn't mean we auto-lose! :weep: no. it means you take them with you in the arena, as always. they'll be declared noncombattant directly afterwards, as your tactics don't want them there.
TelinArtho 12-17-07, 05:05 PM	@McJ and Dur: If I am understanding the discussion correctly - you have an invisible character making an attack against a figment (silent image or otherwise). If this is the case, the invisible character would certainly become visible from the attack. I believe (though I can't look it up at this moment) this is covered with respect to mirror image in the FAQ. (Excuse the last bit here - my daughter wants me to type her name...) guenevere
Salrantol 12-17-07, 05:39 PM	The ecl 6 team fight is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14605817&postcount=1572) - good tactics all around - at the end it was a horse (of course) who won the day. lonewolf - at least you lost it in a fair fight and not to 3 vampire annis hags in the sewers...Basically, we expected that the fight was going to be a coin flip--if Felice hit Solstice (despite incorporeality), either with Energy Missile or Energy Retort (both affect objects), then we should win. She did, and we did. Oh, and templer10: Prison violation fixed. She had it listed right in one spot and wrong in another, so I just deleted the one that was wrong. And I'm not Erithmu. :P
McJarvis 12-17-07, 05:46 PM	@McJ and Dur: If I am understanding the discussion correctly - you have an invisible character making an attack against a figment (silent image or otherwise). If this is the case, the invisible character would certainly become visible from the attack. I believe (though I can't look it up at this moment) this is covered with respect to mirror image in the FAQ. Telin- this discussion has moved to the tavarn. It isn't actually impacting on any fight[I chose not to go invis to avoid the discussion/save templer time]- but essentially it boils down to the clunky mechanics of invis. Elder response would be appreciated- but again, no rush. [no fight hangs in the balance]
whitebaron 12-17-07, 07:17 PM	going to bed now... Gak vs EDS
hogarth 12-17-07, 07:41 PM	going to bed now... Gak vs EDS (1) The rewards are off by a bit; even though T.E.D.S. left their horses at home, they still get penalised for them. So Gakhnalak's penalty is -16.6666% and T.E.D.S. bonus is +16.6666%. (2) You didn't make any Hide checks for Snake-Eyes and Merciful Killer. In case you rerun the fight, you'll probably want to put some Hide/Spot checks in; that might delay Blurgta's Silence spell, for instance. (3) Also, Snake-Eyes used a power stone of Chameleon, not Vigor.
MindWandererB 12-17-07, 07:47 PM	The ecl 6 team fight is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14605817&postcount=1572) - good tactics all around - at the end it was a horse (of course) who won the day. lonewolf - at least you lost it in a fair fight and not to 3 vampire annis hags in the sewers... There are a significant number of issues, but I'll leave it to my opponents whether they want corrections (I don't think they're result-affecting): - R1: The horse isn't under orders--it can't be told to attack someone it can't perceive. It should just sit there. - R1: a Medium-sized creature 5' stepping into the ground would have total cover. - R6: This is more of a question: is the roll supposed to be (1d6-3+2d6) minimum 1, or (1d6-3) minimum 1 + 2d6? I understood it to be the latter, but I'm not sure now. - R7+ Flutterthought's priority is clearly stated as survival. 5' stepping around and refocusing while in Touchsight range doesn't support that very well.
MindWandererB 12-17-07, 07:58 PM	going to bed now... Gak vs EDS Roller links to the wrong fight. Gakhnalak d20: 19 rolls, 8.3 average (and most of the good ones were futile grapple checks). Snakeeyes d20: 9 rolls, 11.8 average That rope trick didn't help anything, either, but you guys paid for that win.
hogarth 12-17-07, 08:57 PM	Roller links to the wrong fight. Gakhnalak d20: 19 rolls, 8.3 average (and most of the good ones were futile grapple checks). Snakeeyes d20: 9 rolls, 11.8 average That rope trick didn't help anything, either, but you guys paid for that win. That was some incredibly bad rolling for Gakhnalak, all right. But as far as costliness goes, I don't consider wand/dorjes to cost anything until all the charges are used up (which hasn't happened yet for any of my characters). :)
Durzulgor 12-17-07, 09:26 PM	The ecl 6 team fight is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14605817&postcount=1572) - good tactics all around - at the end it was a horse (of course) who won the day. lonewolf - at least you lost it in a fair fight and not to 3 vampire annis hags in the sewers... There's just one thing that's a little odd to me: Weren't Darian & Solstice partners? I'm just curious, since I'd rather not shoot down my partner in a team fight: Solstice starts a flyby attack with TK to do a violent thrust – will DC 17 – made, Darain Ready action activates and he sends a 3 pps E-missile at him (no concealment) – fort – fail, 12 dmg and solstice is destroyed. Was this intended or is there anything I should really try to get right if I'm ever to go into a team-fight, so I'll not destroy my undead partner?
lonewolf 12-17-07, 10:51 PM	@Durzulgor: its just a typo. should be Felice there.
Macbrea 12-17-07, 11:46 PM	I am not going to have time this week to run Eldrick vs 3 Half-Celestial Gray Gluttons. If someone wants to pick up the fight and run it.
templer10 12-18-07, 01:39 AM	going to bed now... Gak vs EDS it doesnt matter for the result and no need to change anything at the moment - but iam just intrested - why did you say MK has no weapon to attack with? he had a wand of magic missiles and several more castings of shocking grasp?
whitebaron 12-18-07, 02:35 AM	@mwb roller: will be fixed. @hogarth: rewards: will be fixed. just forgot about them since it was so late in the night. hide: in order to hide, you must have concealment AND not be observed. as both darkness and opponent turn up at the same time, you are, by my definition, not unobserved as Gakhnalak was in the adjacent square. and you cannot already hide in the rope trick. powerstone: see rewards. :) @t10: you were hit with a silence spell. therefore you cannot cast (verbal components) or use a command word for your wand. get a dagger. or crossbow. or whatever it is tiny sorcerers use. it's cheap and doesn't weigh much. --- edited: rewards +for gakhnalak -for eds, changed powerstone for se, added rage-use by gakhnalak and silence spell by blurgta.
MindWandererB 12-18-07, 03:01 AM	@Callix: I noticed that you rolled Varjo's monster somewhere other than in the dice session. You can flag a roll as "private" in the roller so as to not worry about the player seeing it. You can only do it after you make the roll, so there's potentially a few seconds where someone could spot it, but it's not much of a risk.
Callix 12-18-07, 04:27 AM	@Callix: I noticed that you rolled Varjo's monster somewhere other than in the dice session. You can flag a roll as "private" in the roller so as to not worry about the player seeing it. You can only do it after you make the roll, so there's potentially a few seconds where someone could spot it, but it's not much of a risk. Yeah, I noticed that the day after I rolled the monster. Sorry. I did honestly roll it, but you're just going to have to trust me. MAJOR EDIT: Uranedal vs Korwald is done. A bit of a chancy affair, and a very long buff cycle for ECL 3.
whitebaron 12-18-07, 06:12 AM	MAJOR EDIT: Uranedal vs Korwald is done. A bit of a chancy affair, and a very long buff cycle for ECL 3. #1 that is fight-changing: sleep is a 1 round spell. so korwald gets an attack in between, which might change things if korwald hits. #2: he cannot step out of range, since he can't step around the edge. -> would get AoO or has to cast defensively.
CrazyArtificer 12-18-07, 06:14 AM	MAJOR EDIT: Uranedal vs Korwald is done. A bit of a chancy affair, and a very long buff cycle for ECL 3. Eheh, that's the second time my enemy fails the save by 1.. Uranedal has someone who loves him high in the sky or maybe it's the proverbial luck of the gnomes.. Congrats to lonewolf because your character got me very worried when close to me :)
CrazyArtificer 12-18-07, 06:16 AM	#1 that is fight-changing: sleep is a 1 round spell. so korwald gets an attack in between, which might change things if korwald hits. #2: he cannot step out of range, since he can't step around the edge. -> would get AoO or has to cast defensively. Guess I'll have to wait editing my Character Sheet ;) I totally missed the 1 round thing part myself when writing tactics.. Otherwise I would have mentioned it. How much time do you need to recall a spell from a Pearl of Power? Is that a standard action+ another standard action to cast?
templer10 12-18-07, 06:18 AM	. How much time do you need to recall a spell from a Pearl of Power? Is that a standard action+ another standard action to cast? yes.
whitebaron 12-18-07, 06:21 AM	Guess I'll have to wait editing my Character Sheet ;) I totally missed the 1 round thing part myself when writing tactics.. Otherwise I would have mentioned it. How much time do you need to recall a spell from a Pearl of Power? Is that a standard action+ another standard action to cast? i missed this too, in one of the first fights i ran as pitlord. second fight i checked and was all like "uh-oh we missed this last fight..." using any wondrous item takes 1 standard action, unless it's specified differently. so yes, PoP is 1 standard action, casting the usual action required for the spell (std, full round, round, 10 minutes, whatever. :)) and: you can also prebuff using it. that way, you save time for your next fight.
CrazyArtificer 12-18-07, 06:21 AM	Thanks templer and whitebaron.. I was thinking about tacticts for my next fight and wondering when to recall Color Spray.. probably it's best to do at round 1.
CrazyArtificer 12-18-07, 06:25 AM	#1 that is fight-changing: sleep is a 1 round spell. so korwald gets an attack in between, which might change things if korwald hits. Actually Dragor could take a Full attack too.. One paladin attack at +10 (Smite) and 2 -2 hooves (nevertheless, they are worth a try)
whitebaron 12-18-07, 06:32 AM	Thanks templer and whitebaron.. I was thinking about tacticts for my next fight and wondering when to recall Color Spray.. probably it's best to do at round 1. see my edit - prebuff it. doesn't take away from your actions in the fight. don't forget to mark on your sheet which spell was recalled, as those spells are to be used outside of your spell/levels per fight.
CrazyArtificer 12-18-07, 06:34 AM	Oh, nice.. I didn't thought about prebuffing.. A cookie for whitebaron :)
hogarth 12-18-07, 06:58 AM	hide: in order to hide, you must have concealment AND not be observed. as both darkness and opponent turn up at the same time, you are, by my definition, not unobserved as Gakhnalak was in the adjacent square. and you cannot already hide in the rope trick. :confused: One minute they're obviously not seen (since they're in the invisible rope trick). The next minute they're within a mass of concealment. I don't know when they had the opportunity to be auto-spotted. I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
McJarvis 12-18-07, 07:57 AM	:confused: One minute they're obviously not seen (since they're in the invisible rope trick). The next minute they're within a mass of concealment. I don't know when they had the opportunity to be auto-spotted. I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Though I didn't read the exact situation, I'm with you there. It'd be the same if there was a box-shaped room filled with fog and two tunnels coming at it perpendicularly. Even if an opponent was in the other tunnel, you could hide(using the cover offered) & move into the concealment- at which point the concealment takes over for the cover offered by the wall. If concealment was required(and not cover/total cover), we wouldn't have any hiders in the arena at all.
lonewolf 12-18-07, 09:24 AM	Yeah, I noticed that the day after I rolled the monster. Sorry. I did honestly roll it, but you're just going to have to trust me. MAJOR EDIT: Uranedal vs Korwald is done. A bit of a chancy affair, and a very long buff cycle for ECL 3. Whitebaron already pointed out the mistakes I wanted to point out(no possibility for Uranedal to take a 5ft step out of reach and the casting time of 1 round for sleep). Those need to be fixed since they give me a very decent chance of winning. ty lonewolf
lonewolf 12-18-07, 09:39 AM	thanks for the run - you forgot to list PPS spent and time passed and continung effects - this wasnt the last fight in the 3fc. fixed
whitebaron 12-18-07, 10:41 AM	@hogarth: gakhnalak knew where the rope trick was, since he spotted it. so, he looks at a point in space, where at the same time, a concealing mass starts and a character appears. you had no time to hide before you or the darkness are spotted. after all, hiding takes into account your surroundings, which where not there in the rope trick. @mcj: the difference in your example is, you were hiding there, moved to another form of concealment/cover and continued to hide. moving from the rope trick to the outside is like teleporting. so, if you teleport or dimension door, you will be plainly visible if you arrive. you can hide afterwards, of course. but you cannot hide in plain sight without this ability.
McJarvis 12-18-07, 10:53 AM	@mcj: the difference in your example is, you were hiding there, moved to another form of concealment/cover and continued to hide. moving from the rope trick to the outside is like teleporting. so, if you teleport or dimension door, you will be plainly visible if you arrive. you can hide afterwards, of course. but you cannot hide in plain sight without this ability. I think it's closer to walking through a portal opened by the gate spell than actually teleporting yourself. All the same- try this example on for size. Poe the arcane trickster is in an area of Deeper Darkness and hiding. His advesary, the great Harvy comes into view. Harvey hears Poe cast one of his spells and moves closer to Poe! Desiring to muddle his position, poe casts dimension door to the far edge of the deeper darkness. Is Poe still hiding? I'd say yes- and he didn't need HiPS to do it. The fact that when moving out of a rope trick you are transitioning from total cover(allows hiding) to concealment(allows hiding) doesn't mean you are HiPS- unless there was space in between the rope trick's opening and the concealment that offered neither. [or if the observer had see invisibility- in which case I believe they could just see into the opening of the rope trick] edit- a few times you've mentioned that the conditions for hiding were not met by the rope trick area. Please note that conditions for hiding are not met by the conditions of the area the hider is in, but rather the conditions of how well the observer can see the hider. For instace- a hider can hide from many races in moonlight(20% concealment), but not from dwarves/orcs/etc. Against these races the "conditions for hiding" is not met. So the question for rope trick is simply "does it provide concealment, total concealment, cover, or total cover against the observer in question?" If the answer is yes(total cover)- then it is adequate to hide in.
hogarth 12-18-07, 10:59 AM	@hogarth: gakhnalak knew where the rope trick was, since he spotted it. so, he looks at a point in space, where at the same time, a concealing mass starts and a character appears. Note that Snake-Eyes did not appear at the same point where she disappeared; she entered at ground level and reappeared 5' off the ground. While I agree that Gakhnalak would have an excellent idea of Snake-Eyes's general location, the fact is that pinpointing a character does not mean that you've spotted the character. For instance, it's perfectly possible (under D&D rules) for a character to remain hidden in a 5' square of shadow; even if the process of elimination means that there's nowhere else to hide, you don't get to spot the hidden character instantly unless at some point you've had a clear, unobstructed view to the target (by CoCo rules, anyway). you had no time to hide before you or the darkness are spotted. after all, hiding takes into account your surroundings, which where not there in the rope trick. Note that a character in a Rope Trick can view her surroundings perfectly well through the "window", so that's no excuse. I suspect this is going to degenerate into the case of "No one can ever use shadows to hide in the Core Coliseum, because my character carefully observes all shadowy areas." :)
TelinArtho 12-18-07, 11:06 AM	Thanks templer and whitebaron.. I was thinking about tacticts for my next fight and wondering when to recall Color Spray.. probably it's best to do at round 1. If you ever have questions about Pearls of Power, I believe Kraegin is the most significant user of them in the CoCo with a PoP 5th, 2 PoP 4ths, PoP 3rd, PoP 2nd, and 2 PoP 1sts... I highly recommend using them to recall as prebuffs whenever possible, but they are certainly usable in the arena (and often were when Kraegin was lower level...)
Erithmu 12-18-07, 11:26 AM	@Telin: Torel is a close second @WB/Hogarth: I lean towards hogarth's opinion on the darkness thing. wb comments that SE doesn't have time to make a hide check, yet hide checks don't really require an action (unless running HiPS), I would also point out that it wasn't an attack based on a ready (which I think would be a different discussion), but by the same logic that (whoever is hiding) doesn't have time to hide, Gak doesn't have time to swing. So by the time Gak is ready to connect, the darkness is down and everything is in place to need a spot vs hide. Also Rope trick was dismissed, so it wasn't like half of SE's body was half out; it just suddenly gets dark and there are two people there. I also say this because it is an easy solution to a complex problem. We don't have rules for half in/half out (although we push that line with ghosts), so it is either in or out. Make the pitlord's life easy not hard, and if you are the pitlord; make your own life easy.
Rauul 12-18-07, 12:26 PM	If you ever have questions about Pearls of Power, I believe Kraegin is the most significant user of them in the CoCo with a PoP 5th, 2 PoP 4ths, PoP 3rd, PoP 2nd, and 2 PoP 1sts... I highly recommend using them to recall as prebuffs whenever possible, but they are certainly usable in the arena (and often were when Kraegin was lower level...) Acually i have ben working on an Evoker that uses PoP and Wands Quite alot..
templer10 12-18-07, 02:32 PM	lelenia vs shaela is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14614505&postcount=1576)
MindWandererB 12-18-07, 03:44 PM	@Telin: Torel is a close second.Actually, I think Kervan is now the closest second, with a 5, a 4, a 3, 2 2's, and 4 1's. Re: darkness: Yeah, I don't see why it would be an auto-spot, either. They have cover* inside the rope trick, and they have concealment the instant they move out of it. There's no moment of auto-spot conditions in there. *As for cover/total cover, it depends on the angle, I think, but since D&D cover rules would allow you to see up into the Rope Trick from any position on the ground no matter how far you are, it won't be total cover unless your feet are level with the opening or higher.
McJarvis 12-18-07, 03:51 PM	*As for cover/total cover, it depends on the angle, I think, but since D&D cover rules would allow you to see up into the Rope Trick from any position on the ground no matter how far you are, it won't be total cover unless your feet are level with the opening or higher. I was just assuming that since the opening to the dimensional space was invisible, you couldn't see into the dimensional space either.
TelinArtho 12-18-07, 03:56 PM	Isn't that addressed in the spell? The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it.
hogarth 12-18-07, 03:57 PM	I was just assuming that since the opening to the dimensional space was invisible, you couldn't see into the dimensional space either. Right; a Rope Trick has an "invisible" window. I guess you could argue that all windows are invisible, though -- that would explain why birds are always crashing into them.
MindWandererB 12-18-07, 03:58 PM	Oops... forgot about that. That makes it cover and total concealment.
Callix 12-18-07, 06:29 PM	lelenia vs shaela is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14614505&postcount=1576) Sorry if my tactics were too unclear, but Shaela was only supposed to move if 1. unable to see Lelenia or 2. completely denied cover. If she still has cover, she should use Bluff to create a diversion (move action) and then hide again. Shaela shouldn't move in round 2. Lelenia knows where she is, but can't actually see her, and would move north, not south, to deny cover. Still, it probably doesn't matter in the long run. Also, I have seen many, many fights in which people have avoided the -20 penalty by allowing themselves to be seen, then hiding again. That was my intention with the bluff checks. Still, the dice hated me on that tumble check, and all my sniping not rolling above a 10 to hit. Thanks for the run, Templer. Also, the edit on Uranedal vs Korwald is done. Result didn't change, though tension and expended resources did.
MindWandererB 12-18-07, 06:57 PM	@templer10: You missed some items used in the team fight: looks like Flutterthought used 2 arrows and a use of the Bag of Tricks.
templer10 12-19-07, 01:40 AM	Sorry if my tactics were too unclear, but Shaela was only supposed to move if 1. unable to see Lelenia or 2. completely denied cover. If she still has cover, she should use Bluff to create a diversion (move action) and then hide again. Shaela shouldn't move in round 2. Lelenia knows where she is, but can't actually see her, and would move north, not south, to deny cover. Still, it probably doesn't matter in the long run. Also, I have seen many, many fights in which people have avoided the -20 penalty by allowing themselves to be seen, then hiding again. That was my intention with the bluff checks. . if you wanted a Bluff to rehide you should have said so - and you didnt say when to move so i used my best judgment - sorry. and about the -20 thing - personally i think it's a mistake - and there are conflicting opinions about that - take it to the courtroom.
templer10 12-19-07, 01:41 AM	nm
templer10 12-19-07, 01:42 AM	I am not going to have time this week to run Eldrick vs 3 Half-Celestial Gray Gluttons. If someone wants to pick up the fight and run it. Bump anyone?