Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jindl 03-24-04, 02:31 PM	Please post any Comments and Concerns regarding the Fights of the Week 3/24/2004 on this thread. Please keep general rules discussion and questions on the Tavern thread. -Jindl
Jindl 03-25-04, 11:13 PM	Some problems with the Ixidor vs Angosh fight: 1. Scent requires a move action. So the dire lion has to use a move action to locate Angosh via scent. 2. You cannot charge on a readied action. The lion should not have interrupted Angosh by charging. Also, charging is a full round action, so the lion cannot charge on the same round it uses scent. 3. Why didn't Angosh get an action after the lion charged? -Jindl
Pittbull 03-26-04, 03:05 AM	@sshuit: In round 6 you wrote: Angosh applies his Magic Weapon oil onto his Armor Spikes and moves down to within 10' of Ixidor. (-16,1,2) The Dire Lion smells something fishy and leaps up to attack Angosh. Charging, Pouncing Dire Lion. But the lion got to be 5' next to angosh and he wasn't. SRD says: "The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source." I think, beside the other circumstances, the lion was not able to pinpoint Angosh a all.
MotherBast 03-26-04, 07:19 AM	I would like to point out that same fight as evidence that we really, really, really need to take a look at the allies situation. Its worth noting that in that fight Ix's CR is 4, while his allie's CR is 5. The allie is actually a bigger threat than the gladiator. This is a system in need of revision. Jindl, I await the "fix" for this problem you had spoken of before. I think the elder 8 need to adress this growing problem very quickly.
sshuit 03-26-04, 07:50 AM	Hi folks. Re : Scent. I think I handled scent incorrectly. I will try and fix things later. I'm off to Columbus this weekend for the Magic:The Gathering Grand prix. I was under the impression that scent worked automatically. when the enemy came within 5' and since the Dire lion is so tall, once Angosh came within 10' of Ixidor he was within 5' of Angosh. Also during all those rounds spent waiting Ixidor actually did want to use Detect evil to locate angosh. Once he pinpoints a square I think the Lion could attack it. I will do my best to correct the errors. sshuit
Jindl 03-26-04, 08:19 AM	Originally posted by sshuit Also during all those rounds spent waiting Ixidor actually did want to use Detect evil to locate angosh. Once he pinpoints a square I think the Lion could attack it. I will do my best to correct the errors. sshuit Ixidor has no method of telling the lion what square to attack. So while detect evil would be a great way for Ixidor to locate/attack Angosh, it won't help the lion very much. -Jindl
Magagumo 03-26-04, 09:05 AM	Lion is only 5' tall, as are all Large Long creatures. So, how did a lvl 4 get a Dire Lion? Is this Handle Animal madness??
Pittbull 03-26-04, 10:33 AM	Ixidor is only able to pinpoint angosh with detect evil, if angosh does not move for 3 rounds and Ixidor is looking in his direction, while concentrating on the spell.
sshuit 03-26-04, 11:35 AM	changes made to Ixidor vs Angosh fights. Any more mistakes? sshuit
Jindl 03-26-04, 02:51 PM	@sshuit - It looks fine to me. PLEASE NOTE: TACTICS AND CHARACTER SHEETS ARE MANDATORY PARTS OF THE FIGHT. @Tellish and Myrridin - Please add the tactics and character sheets to the 2 fights you just ran. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 03-26-04, 03:19 PM	Done. oops. tee hee! Actually, i just forgot character sheets. Some concerns with Myrridin's fight. Elshaya finishes his spell and a swarm of spiders appears on the ground (23,13) and scurries closer to food (20,10). Why does the swarm only move 10'? It has a move of 20' and can double move. It should have ended it's turn on Boafer causing an automatic 1d6 dmg, +poison. He then moves closer to the wicked caster (12,13). What i see is that Boafer actually moved BACK 40' feet. attempting to engage in a grapple (19,8) Just wondering if you know they are still 20' away from each other. And that's best case scenario bast on Elshaya's position being bottom left, and Boafer being top right. Boafer doesn't have a light weapon to attack Elshaya with in the grapple. Elshaya tries to squeeze the life out of Boafer. (Grapple: 11+7+4=22 vs 14+7+4=15, no damage.) Why did Elshaya not dmg boafer here? Seems like he won the grapple Toto decides to try for the face again. (Attk: 11+4=15 vs AC 14, hits! Damage: 1-4=0) Minimum dmg is 1. So the weasel here actually manages to sink it's teeth in boafer. So for the next 5 rounds, it actually deals 5 more points of dmg. -ToK
Coyote Skyheart 03-26-04, 06:22 PM	Ah so this is where I post this: If I might mention it...the swarm's immune to weapon damage. Its a dimunitive creature, and in swarm traits in the back of the MM it says dimunitive swarms are immune to weapon damage.
Druid Roxors 03-26-04, 06:33 PM	Also, you cannot use axes in a grapple. Only light weapons.
Myrridin 03-26-04, 06:43 PM	I just checked the 3.5 SRD, and it didn't say anywhere that Dimunitive creatures were immune to the damage. I'm at work, so I don't have an MM around right now. Also, in an earlier fight that I ran, a bat swarm was killable by using physical weapons. Any movement errors are attributed to me being at work, and not being able to have everything as opened as I wanted. Tellish, I missed the damage on that grapple, no reason, just missed it. I didn't think the weasel could do any damage with the -4 mod, I'll change that. I'll rerun on Monday for that. Jindl: My mistake on the character sheets and tactics, it'll be posted with the rerun. I'll check over the mistakes this weekend, and make any changes that are necessary on Monday. I apologize for this.
Myrridin 03-26-04, 06:47 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Also, you cannot use axes in a grapple. Only light weapons. Yeah, I noticed that this time through. It'd have to be the light crossbow...which I'm not really sure you can use in a grapple.
PostalBoy 03-26-04, 08:51 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin I'm at work, so I don't have an MM around right now. ...not being able to have everything as opened as I wanted. This concerns me for many different reasons! I won't even begin to describe them! I could fill up several pages by even doing so! The rulebook says only that swarms comprised of small or Dimunative creatures are immune to "all weapon damage". But the thought of a Dwarf Barbarian killing a swarm of spiders with a one handed axe is rather humorous.
Rozman 03-27-04, 12:36 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin I just checked the 3.5 SRD, and it didn't say anywhere that Dimunitive creatures were immune to the damage. I'm at work, so I don't have an MM around right now. Also, in an earlier fight that I ran, a bat swarm was killable by using physical weapons. It's in the TypesSubtypesAbilities file. From the SRD A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. A swarm composed of Fine or Diminutive creatures is immune to all weapon damage. The Bat Swarm listing unfortunately presents a bit of a problem. They are Diminutive (which should be immune to weapon damage), but their listing states that they take half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. Either this is supposed to be an exception to the standard Swarm rules, or Bat Swarm went from Tiny to Diminutive during development and they failed to implement the change fully. Not that they would ever print an error in the 3.5 rules :)
MotherBast 03-27-04, 06:53 AM	I belive the bat swarm was Errated to be tiny.
Myrridin 03-28-04, 06:09 PM	All: I'm working on this with coyote and his opponent on it. I apologize for the swarm, I'd ran the Bat swarm before with no problem, and I missed the descriptor in the swarm description of the MM when I was home, and the SRD earlier. I'll have this straightened out, and we will figure it out. I swear I checked the damn thing multiple times to make sure I had the swarm right. G'damn
Pittbull 03-28-04, 06:30 PM	Originally posted by sshuit changes made to Ixidor vs Angosh fights. Any more mistakes? sshuit I think, only little ones. Ixidor got his damagereduction against Angoshs magic-weapon-enhanced armorspikes. And, the his grapplecheck should be +16 not +14 because of the potion of bullstrenght. So you denied Angosh both of the effects of the potions. Finally there was no move-action up to a higher level after the successful grapple.But this was not significant for the end of the fight. The direlion was simply to strong.
MotherBast 03-29-04, 07:21 AM	Tellish: In the early rounds of the Candy and Zorander fight, how was Zorander and his shadow auto-pinpointing Sanzin and Candy. From the way you described it, I at first belived it was part of the Entangle effect. After chacking the entangel spell, however, it has no suce effect of allowing invisable creatures to be pin-pointed withen it. So how was he pin-pointing me?
Tellish_of_Ket 03-29-04, 08:02 AM	@MB: The obvious VISIUAL effect of the vines wrapping themselves around ppl, IMO, make this very obvious. The spell itself doesn't have to say, "Oh and btw, it pin-points invisible ppl trapped within." That is something that can be infered. Obvious visual effects are what i used. It's sorta like fighters not needing to make a spellcraft check to know they just got hit with a fireball. The effects are pretty obvious. It doesn't say in fireball, "Those who fail their spellcrafts, have no idea what just happened." in it. Something like that would be assumed. I guess it would be the same as being invisible underwater (almost). Ppl can pinpoint you, but still suffer the 50/50 miss chance. I used the same principle, lots of vines wrapping themselves around your body, imo, give your location away. -ToK
Magagumo 03-29-04, 09:15 AM	Don't know what to say about the vines.. Just wanted to note that Zorander had +2 to spot and Listen & dmg rolls vs. the human pair. It drops Sanzin 1 round earlier, but I'm glad he stabilized... Edit: From an overall perspective, Zorander could have taken down Sanzin (who never moved?) as he managed to hit him while invisible, and thusly kept this practice up until the mage went down (hard to tell if he went down ro not, but death rattle, groan, metagaming.. , etc.). As for Candy, I believe the vines should not have given away her location, so Zorander would not always have been able to shoot at her (unless he was pin-pointing). I don't recall if Umbra's first successful touch utilized the vines to find Candy- if not, then she still went down from that incredibly lucky (no other way to describe it) touch on the final round. However, if Umbra should not have struck Candy then, then she is currently at 4 str (and some amount of life) with Zorander lying on the groudn before her, and its her shot. As Umbra is right there, it gets an AoO when she attempts to CDG Zorander, so there is a chance she drops there. Also, she is currently going to deal 3d6-9+3= 3d6-6 damage on the CDG. On Avg Dmg, she deals 3 pts, and Zorander needs to roll a 2 or higher to survive, wake-up, and continue the fight with 69 hp left and his opponent at Point-Blank range for 3 arrows at 1d8+6 each. On max damage, she deals 12 points, invoking a Fort 22 which requires a 10 to succeed. Slightly more difficult, but also within 50% of success. Again, Zorander has 62 hp left. My point: I understand that entangle was used incorrectly in this fight (IMHO), but if one tracks where the fight was going, then Zorander still has a huge chance for success. If T_o_K does not wish to re-run the fight, he has ample reason not to, as the outcome is fairly weighted based on my comments above. *Shrug* But I'm biased.
Arstimis 03-29-04, 09:43 AM	Im not sure i agree with the vines pin pointing invis. What says that the vines wrap around your body and form basically a faerie fire with vines. It could just as easily wrap around your legs and not pinpoint invis, but still entangle
Jindl 03-29-04, 11:57 AM	I agree with Arstimis. Entangle does not grant blindsense. Such autodetection is beyond the means of a 1st level spell, especially one which already is potent in range, duration, effect, and radius. I would however, grant a small circumstance bonus on Spot/Listen checks to locate a creature that failed its save (to reflect the vines wrapped around her and the sound of her struggles to resist). But if you passed your save, you are effectively avoiding the vines, and no bonus should be granted. So I do think entangle was handled wrong. But, as Magagumo stated (quite well), the mistake doesn't seem to have much affect on the outcome. I think the end result would most likely be the same. So, I don't see any real reason to re-run the ending of the fight. -Jindl
Captain Mutilate 03-29-04, 04:02 PM	Druid Roxors hasn't posted Keeg's and Dante's (me) fight yet, to my knowledge. Does that count as a concern?
MotherBast 03-29-04, 04:07 PM	I see no reason for a re-run either, and even if I did, I wouldn't ask. I'm firmly aginst re-runs now. I was only asking to try and better understand the fight itself. As for entangle giving away the invis, I have to agree with everyone else. Think about it like this. The vines try to grap on Zorander's turn, which is 6 seconds long. Now, even though Candy acts after Zorander, she is still concidered to be taking her actions in that same 6 seconds. Visualy, everything is happening at the same time. The vines are actually in constand motion visualy, so you can't just look where the vines move when they move, because all 40 x 40 feet of vines are in constant motion. I don't know about a spot or listen bonus. That would be up to the particular pitlord, acting as the DM, to grant the circumstance bonus.
Arstimis 03-29-04, 04:37 PM	I haven't posted my fight yet either...and hatzinger hasn't posted mine. Today is the last day to post a fight. Tomorrow they get a negative credit
sshuit 03-29-04, 05:47 PM	@ll : Re Entangle. I think I'm inclined to agree with how it was run. It's like if you're invisible and standing in a puddle of water. The area where the water is displaced is where you are. Still get a 50% miss chance for concealment, but no need to roll to pinpoint the square. sshuit
Arstimis 03-29-04, 07:23 PM	Arcanis decides to withdraw, drawing an AoO from Mete nevertheless, as he is already near the edge of the arena. Actually....withdrawing..if that is what he was doing, does not provoke an AoO, but only allows you to double move. I think thats what he was doing, and it would make a difference...as there would be no AoO and no death
Hatzinger 03-29-04, 07:29 PM	from the SRD: "[...] The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square. [...] If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal. [...]" he had to move through two threatened squares. he couldnīt simply move straight away because he had the wall of the arena in his back.
Druid Roxors 03-29-04, 07:30 PM	@ Hatzinger: My first scroll, scroll of spike growth is CL 4 and level 2. Crafted by a Ranger. This allows me to activate it automatically because I have 12 Wisdom. About decipher script, you should have sent me a message and I would have switched one of my useless level 0 spells to it... In any case, Ill keep on reading the fight. Edit: A spell once deciphered needs not re-deciphering. Edit 2: My spellcraft checks are inferior than my UMD checks to decipher writing, even accounting for -5 penalty on decipher.
Hatzinger 03-29-04, 07:41 PM	i was away the whole week-end and posted that on thursday. sorry for the inconvenience. druid/ranger: magic items are always crafted at minimum requirements, which would be Drd5 casting drd3-spell instead of Rgr8 casting rgr2-spell. For example, you can see this in the cost for spells: 25x5x3=375gp, the actual price, or 25x8x2=400, if a ranger would do the job. the scroll price list assumes that all sold scrolls of this spell are made of druids. with umd, it takes 1 minute to decipher a scroll.
sshuit 03-29-04, 07:42 PM	Actually Withdraw just makes the square you start in not threatened so the first step away is free (no AoO). If you are pinned against a wall and need to move more than once next to your opponent, withdraw does provoke an AoO when you make the second step ooX ooX ABX ooX Say B wants to withdraw. X's are a wall he moves as so.... ooX oBX AoX ooX no AoO yet... then again oBX ooX AoX ooX When B moves out of that square a AoO is incurred. sshuit Originally posted by Arstimis Actually....withdrawing..if that is what he was doing, does not provoke an AoO, but only allows you to double move. I think thats what he was doing, and it would make a difference...as there would be no AoO and no death
Druid Roxors 03-29-04, 07:46 PM	@ Hatzinger: Could you do something about the Minimum Wisdom and Deciphering mentioned on the edits on my previous posts? I believe they could be fight-altering.
Hatzinger 03-29-04, 07:56 PM	afaik, the wis thing is correct. see my edited post. to the deciphered scrolls staying deciphered: yes, i admit thatīs an error. but i have to get a few hours of sleep now. letīs see if i can manage it tomorrow, with the elderīs and kediīs approval. (iīll just roll the dice at first and see if the outcome would be different before i post a new fight, thou.) Be assured that i wouldnīt have bet against you in this fight. ;)
Druid Roxors 03-29-04, 08:05 PM	Alright, get some sleep, I believe its quite late on Germany. Heh, I would have bet on myself! :D
Druid Roxors 03-29-04, 08:11 PM	Ah, I was looking for the Scrolls treatise within the Co Co FaQ: Custom Potions, Staves, Rings, Rods, and Wondrous Items are not allowed. Scrolls and Wands may be purchased / crafted containing any spell and any metamagic feats, within the Core rules. Technically, I wanted a Spike Growth spell CL4 Level 2, which is completely within the core rules. We are not restrincted to the Scrolls section in the DMG for scrolls. Jindl pre-Audited my character too, and found it acceptable. (within PM's)
Tellish_of_Ket 03-29-04, 11:32 PM	I don't think the entangle effect was handled wrong at all. If a vine is wrapping itself around you, anyone looking in, can easily see the square it's wrapping around. I'm not the least bit convinced by your arguments whatsoever in this matter. Throw flour on someone, same thing, except it's flour, not vines. Throw vines on someone and suddenly you still can't tell? C'mon, get serious. Like for real. The visual effect of a vine wrapping itself around someone, invisible or not, is very real and very there. And Jindl, it has nothing to do with the "already the power and range of a 1st level spell", but has everything to do with the effect that it has. Remember, these vines have to be numerous enough to hold-fast a hacking, fighting, struggling adventurer. That's a lot of vine-work, and enough IMO to discern the location of someone entangled within the radius. -ToK
Arstimis 03-30-04, 01:49 AM	To get a question answered about the Entangle thing. You are only saying that they can be pinpointed if they failed thier reflex save, but if they passed the reflex save, but were still in the spells area they would not be able to be pinpointed. If that is what you are saying i would agree
Market_Share 03-30-04, 06:06 AM	Wow...hehe Ok, my first match that i'm a victim match. To be honest i expected it though. The fight went exactly how i predicted it would go. I figured the only way i lose is if my tactics weren't applie, and/or i roll really crappy and I wasn't disappointed. S'ok though. I've seen ppl lose like that before. 1. never wanted to enervate him if i lost init. 2. always supposed to stay 245' away, always out of range of his flamestrikes. 3. yadaa yadaaa..doesn't matter, snark never replied to any of my mails where i asked questions and stuff, and i knew i'd get robbed. No biggies. I expect stuff like that to happen once in a while. Oh well. Next! SPIKE
Tellish_of_Ket 03-30-04, 06:22 AM	Uhm. Mike. As Jindl would say "$-hit happens." Sometimes the dice just decide to take a walk out the window. I always use the online roller, easier to verify and noone questions my rolls. Some don't, that's their choice. I read your tactics, i didn't see anything about NOT enervating him even if you lost int. Looks like you anticipated him readying to disrupt you if he won init. So if he didn't ready and he won init, it almost looks like you still wanted to enervate him. Should have put silence in your other ring as well if you "anticipated" you'd get hosed. -ToK
MotherBast 03-30-04, 07:21 AM	Tellish: Well, I would agree with your entangle assesment, If the grass only existed on the target of the spell. But when your looking over a 40' x 40' field of grass, all knee high or higher, unless your looking from directly above it would be impossible to see where it was wraped around anything. Unless maybe, and I say maybe, the invisable foe was on the very edge. You couldn't see through the rest of the grass to see where it was "displaced", so to speek.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-30-04, 08:00 AM	I just read your post a little clearer Mike. Just wanted to say, i didn't see anything wrong with the fight. Not sure if you're being sarcasting in your post, or you actually mean it. -ToK
Market_Share 03-30-04, 08:05 AM	Oh.. hehe. Sarcastic of course. When have you known me to be serioius. I was jesting about the fact that, that is what i most commonly read about when ppl lose. "My tacitcs weren't applied, you didn't read this. Or that. Or he was too close. Or WHAH! WHAH!" Wasn't meaning any harm or insult toward snark of course. Just because i lost and d...brgumbl brumbl relwdf. LOL I should have listened to ya actually. Both times i snubbed your suggestions both times i lost. LOL. What a coincedence. I think god is punishing me for it. Just to let ppl know, ToK's suggested i just move up beside peter, poly into a remorhaz right away and swallow him whole. By the looks of peter's tactics that would have worked just fine. :( Too bad so sad for me. Moving on with the next opponent. Hmmm, i see Harvester won. Maybe he wants a rematch? SPIKE
Hatzinger 03-30-04, 08:46 AM	@Battousai Awwwww..... My mail program doesnīt show me that a mail returned, so i thoughed the tactics to be with you. As i was away this weekend, i couldnīt check the tavern, where you surely asked for my tactics again. bad luck. @all: Edit: I suggest every pitlord to confirm/reply to posts which say "tactics sent to...". Thus, we can avoid any misunderstandings/communication errors. Also, i suggest every gladiator to write for whom the tactics should be. This weekend, i had two tactics where i could only guess to which gladiator they belonged to. luckily i found some hints in the used equipment.
Hatzinger 03-30-04, 09:19 AM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Ah, I was looking for the Scrolls treatise within the Co Co FaQ: Technically, I wanted a Spike Growth spell CL4 Level 2, which is completely within the core rules. We are not restrincted to the Scrolls section in the DMG for scrolls. Jindl pre-Audited my character too, and found it acceptable. (within PM's) Yes, but "Spike Growth" is a Drd 3 spell (requiring a Drd of lvl 5+) and a Rgr 2 spell (requiring a Rgr of lvl 8+)
Druid Roxors 03-30-04, 09:23 AM	Ranger Level 8 = CL 4. Remember they have half progression. A ranger's Caster Level is Half his level. Which is why the scroll is CL 4
Druid Roxors 03-30-04, 09:24 AM	-Back-
barrel_master 03-30-04, 11:41 AM	Originally posted by Market_Share Oh.. hehe. Sarcastic of course. When have you known me to be serioius. I was jesting about the fact that, that is what i most commonly read about when ppl lose. "My tacitcs weren't applied, you didn't read this. Or that. Or he was too close. Or WHAH! WHAH!" I should have listened to ya actually. Both times i snubbed your suggestions both times i lost. LOL. What a coincedence. I think god is punishing me for it. Just to let ppl know, ToK's suggested i just move up beside peter, poly into a remorhaz right away and swallow him whole. By the looks of peter's tactics that would have worked just fine. :( SPIKE 2 people from ottawa on the boards? Save us all! :) But as for the polymorphing, I thought you could only polymorph into things that are 1 size larger/smaller then you. A remorhaz is huge.
Druid Roxors 03-30-04, 01:17 PM	So Hatzinger, what do you think about the scroll? should I had activated it?
Tellish_of_Ket 03-30-04, 02:28 PM	In polymorph the HD is the main restrictor. I know we've talked about it before. Mag poly'd into a hydra once as well. I didn't see the problem other than that the hd cap is observed. Spike is from Montreal btw, i'm from Ottawa. Are you from Ottawa as well BM? If so we should go get a beer sometime. Even take a spin up to Montreal pick up Mike and do some serious partying. -ToK
Coyote Skyheart 03-30-04, 06:32 PM	*edit* I've calmed down ;) Myrridin, in the Elshaya vs Boafer combat, obscuring mist has a 20% miss chance vs a melee attack, not a 50% miss chance. The latter is vs ranged attacks only. So you'll have to redo the fight...again, since the first touch attack hit. :(
Kaigan 03-30-04, 07:25 PM	@TOk so your from Ottawa, well I'm from Toronto originally, lived there 9 years, then i moved to the middle east. Now i'm in California. I've traveled a bit.
sshuit 03-30-04, 10:25 PM	@ToK et.al. I'm in T.O, quite often. We'll have to hook up sometime. sshuit
Hatzinger 03-31-04, 01:48 AM	@druid you had to emulate a class feature to cast a divine spell (DC20) which you didnīt have on your spell list (DC25), and then emulate the ability score (DC28) to be able to cast the spell. Regarding that itīs already wednesday and we have the no-rerun policy, iīm afraid to having to disappoint you. It would have been unprobable to make all these checks successfully, anyway.
Myrridin 03-31-04, 08:39 AM	Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart *edit* I've calmed down ;) Myrridin, in the Elshaya vs Boafer combat, obscuring mist has a 20% miss chance vs a melee attack, not a 50% miss chance. The latter is vs ranged attacks only. So you'll have to redo the fight...again, since the first touch attack hit. :( Except that you're 10' away, which confers the 50% miss chance. You were both Enlarged, which gives 10' reach. Reading the description of the spell, and when cover and miss chance is applied, 10' away is enough to give the total concealment, which is why Boafer was using Listen to try and pinpoint your location. I don't "have" to redo the fight again. I redid the fight the first time, it's now Wednesday, and there's the arena no-rerun policy to think of. The best way to go about asking for these things Coyote, is to ask politely, and not demand. I acknowledge the first mistake with the swarm, yet it didn't make a difference in the long run. Directly from the SRD: The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target). Edited: For clarity.
Druid Roxors 03-31-04, 09:37 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger @druid you had to emulate a class feature to cast a divine spell (DC20) which you didnīt have on your spell list (DC25), and then emulate the ability score (DC28) to be able to cast the spell. Regarding that itīs already wednesday and we have the no-rerun policy, iīm afraid to having to disappoint you. It would have been unprobable to make all these checks successfully, anyway. Yes, It is too late for this. In any case, I want to make this clear for you and any other pitlord who uses my character. - You do not need to emulate a class feature to cast the spell. (Its like saying rogues also cast arcane spells and need emulate divine, this refers to things like wildshape, turn undead, etc) - I have no idea where the DC 25 check came from, Its not needed. - I need not emulate the ability score, this is the reason I switched my Atributes to have 12 Wisdom, I can cast arcane spells of up to 8th level and Divine spells of up to 2nd level with my ability scores without emulation. 3.5 SRD Use a Scroll: If you are casting a spell from a scroll, you have to decipher it first. Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll's spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don't have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above). - The only check I have to make is a Spellcraft Decipher check DC 22 and a Use Magic Device DC 24 (for my Spike Growth Scroll).
Hatzinger 03-31-04, 10:41 AM	i have some trouble with the UMD rules. I posted a question in the tavern thread.
Myrridin 03-31-04, 11:42 AM	Originally posted by Myrridin Directly from the SRD: The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target). Edited: For clarity. I just went back over the fight, and if you really want to nit-pick, then Elshaya couldn't actually see Boafer after the mist is there, and has to make Listen check to try and pinpoint him. I believe the DC is 20 for that, so you'd have about a 50/50 chance of even being able to pinpoint him.
Coyote Skyheart 03-31-04, 06:39 PM	I don't really understand why you kept me at 10'ft away, but I see your rules logic now. Or why you only rolled listen checks for Boafer - I looked back, and I didn't really see any for me. Regardless, now I know to write in tactics 'stay within 5'ft' of a target effected by obscuring mist. Or, even better, since it seems that running around for 30 minutes is acceptable with no repurcussions, except against casters, run around the arena until the mist expires and his mage armor expires and if I see him cast a spell, till that spell expires, then buff up, chase after him as he runs around till my spells expire...oh, he already did that with the swarm. hm. I'm going to take a break from this region of the WOTC boards till I get a grip over how things work here. Enjoy the arena fights. Nothing wrong with what you did Myrridin, its perfectly legal, as this newbie to CoCo is slowly realizing. Roleplay sounds much more fun suddenly.
RootBreaker 03-31-04, 06:51 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Done. oops. tee hee! Actually, i just forgot character sheets. Why did Elshaya not dmg boafer here? Seems like he won the grapple -ToK That looks like a typo. The 15 should be 25 if you do the addition.
Jindl 04-01-04, 12:00 PM	As pairings are today, this thread is closed. Any additional discussion should take place on the Tavern thread. Thanks! -Jindl