| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Jindl04-14-04, 03:42 PM | Please post any comments and concerns regarding fights of the week of 4/14/04 below: -Jindl |
| Myrridin04-15-04, 11:18 AM | Tagg: Just a note. Casting sleep is a full round action. So when Gyle was casting it, it would've have gone off until his turn on Round 4, not the round he started casting it on Round 3. |
| TaggIIV04-15-04, 11:26 AM | Originally posted by Myrridin Tagg: Just a note. Casting sleep is a full round action. So when Gyle was casting it, it would've have gone off until his turn on Round 4, not the round he started casting it on Round 3. ooo whoops. thought full round action just meant he couldnt do anything else in his turn... (as opposed to a standard action where he could have attacked or something after casting the spell in the same turn) i'll go modify.. |
| Myrridin04-15-04, 11:38 AM | No problem. Yeah a 1 round casting time means that whenever the caster starts the spell, it finishes on their turn the next round. It does also mean they can't move and stuff. :) |
| TaggIIV04-15-04, 11:53 AM | Finished edits. It didnt affect the outcome, simply delayed Smergels death a round and allowed him to put a dent in Gyle. |
| Myrridin04-15-04, 11:55 AM | That's about what I thought would happen. Edit: In round 2 Gyle cast See Invis, and then shot an arrow. He can't do both of those in the same round. I still don't know if it impacted the result of the fight. |
| TaggIIV04-15-04, 12:02 PM | Originally posted by Myrridin That's about what I thought would happen. Edit: In round 2 Gyle cast See Invis, and then shot an arrow. He can't do both of those in the same round. I still don't know if it impacted the result of the fight. no because smergel failed his fort save after the coup de grace. at the end... but thanks for pointing that out, i didnt catch that :) |
| Beldin04-16-04, 08:07 AM | kedi, round 2: arkin casts magic missle, which hast a range of 110 feet. the round before he mosed to nearest stone, standing now at (-15/3); assuming he started at A. shiaan hadn't moved yet, so the distance was approx. 170 feet. round 3: arkin casts mage armor and attacks with gauntlet (in melee?? - tactics...). -showing the rolls and position would help |
| Myrridin04-16-04, 08:44 AM | Originally posted by Beldin kedi, round 3: arkin casts mage armor and attacks with gauntlet (in melee?? - tactics...). -showing the rolls and position would help Kedi: You need to show the rolls in the fight, as well as show where they're positioned. Snark has a good format for fights, perhaps following his format would help? As it was, Beldin's pointed out some legitimate errors, not to mention you can't cast a spell and attack in the same round. |
| Smergel04-16-04, 09:52 AM | Originally posted by TaggIIV no because smergel failed his fort save after the coup de grace. at the end... I think you also forgot to make a caster level check for the see invis scroll that Private Gyle used. It's 1d20+1 vs. a DC of 4. Also, why didn't Smergel do anything in round 2 or round 3? It seems natural to me that he would have moved into range for Sleep as soon as possible (though I'll be certain to write it explicitly in the tactics in the future). As it is, this is the round-by-round: r1: Smergel casts invis, Private Gyle drinks potion. r2: Smergel does nothing, Private Gyle reads scroll of see invis r3: Smergel does nothing, Private Gyle fires bow r4: Smergel moves 120', Private Gyle starts casting Sleep r5: Smergel casts MM, Private Gyle completes Sleep Remember that Smergel's range with Sleep is 20' (130') longer than Private Gyle's (110'). Why did Smergel move within PG's Sleep range? -Magnus |
| Smergel04-16-04, 10:01 AM | thought full round action just meant he couldnt do anything else in his turn... (as opposed to a standard action where he could have attacked or something after casting the spell in the same turn) Eh, no, you can never attack in the same turn as casting a spell (except for a quickened spell). -Magnus |
| kedi04-16-04, 03:17 PM | I moderated the fight from the 2nd round, where I made my first mistake. I apologiese kat again for making mistakes costed her match. (spoiler of the fresh-match: Mystical theurges) |
| Vilawyn04-16-04, 03:46 PM | I think you also forgot to make a caster level check for the see invis scroll that Private Gyle used. It's 1d20+1 vs. a DC of 4. Also, why didn't Smergel do anything in round 2 or round 3? It seems natural to me that he would have moved into range for Sleep as soon as possible (though I'll be certain to write it explicitly in the tactics in the future). As it is, this is the round-by-round: r1: Smergel casts invis, Private Gyle drinks potion. r2: Smergel does nothing, Private Gyle reads scroll of see invis r3: Smergel does nothing, Private Gyle fires bow r4: Smergel moves 120', Private Gyle starts casting Sleep r5: Smergel casts MM, Private Gyle completes Sleep Remember that Smergel's range with Sleep is 20' (130') longer than Private Gyle's (110'). Why did Smergel move within PG's Sleep range? -Magnus Well from what I gathered from your tactics was you would cast invisibility, then wait until he approached your sleep range. And, since his tactics stated to just sit and shoot at you, outside of your sleep range, you would have ultimately died for sure if i didn't have you move via arrows. So, I had you run up to him. Now seeing as how it came down to a concentration check whether who won (ie if PG failed the concentration check sleep would fail then you would cast sleep on him) instead of you simply dying from the arrows - I don't think it was that bad. (oh, this is Tagg, i just didnt feel like changing for one post :p) |
| Jindl04-16-04, 09:20 PM | @Limit - Pretty good job on your first fight. Only one error. When Irwin makes his listen check to hear Catherine's casting, the DC should be 0. Since he gets a 7 on his check, that means he hears the casting, and locates it to within 15 feet. He would need to beat the DC by 20 to pinpoint her location (see the CoCo FAQ). However, it is reasonable that locating her within 15 feet tells him that she is behind the total cover of the rock, and thus it is reasonable that he would head to the rock. Once there, he would negate her cover, automatically spotting her, and attempt his grapple as you stated. So, while the exact rules may not have been followed, the result is the same. If this still doesn't make sense, please PM me. -Jindl |
| Magagumo04-16-04, 09:20 PM | @ Cat Just read your fight with the hyrda- Congratulations on your new pet! *Explosion of streamers, Banners fall down behind him stating "Yay for Ixidor!!"* Seriosuly dude, your tactics were excellent for that beastie, glad to see a fun new friend enter our arena... :D [Note: This has nothing to do with my obsession with hydras... at all.. ever.. *looks nervously about and flees* |
| daemones04-16-04, 09:30 PM | @Limit: Thanks again for modding for us. I was worried about the invisibility scroll if she won initiative, as I noticed it well after I had sent tactics. Ride: 4 rgr + 1 bar...+ 2 dex + 2 saddle + 2 feat + 2 saddle Saddle Twice? Adjusted to 11 Should have been synergy (from 5 ranks handle animal) - DOH! Also, would the two circumstance bonuses stack in this case? Using a saddle and a whistle seems like the same situation, you’re using a tool to better control your mount. However, I’m not certain so I will let it go I'm under in the impression that the saddle and the whistle stack, as they're modifying different skills (military saddle = +2 ride, whistle = +2 handle animals). If it works differently, I'll leave the whistle out of the arena for animal rearing, etc. I don't see any major problems; I intended the horse to attack, but it was Irwin's game once he had his hands on the little lady so it doesn't matter here. Thanks again! I'm confident that I'll royally muck up my first fight, but only time will tell. |
| Jindl04-17-04, 09:51 AM | @Arstimis - 1. You cannot CDG with scorching ray (or any rays/energy missile spells). You may only CDG with a melee weapon (including natural weapons and melee touch spells) or a bow/crossbow. So, the scorching ray damage would have been much less, and the fort save dc would have also been much lower. 2. There is no such thing as "Fort save impossible" because saving throws are subject to critical success and critical failure. A 20! on a save always succeeds and a 1! on a save always fails. It may not change the outcome of the fight, but if you don't mind making these minor corrections ... -Jindl |
| Caterane04-17-04, 10:07 AM | @Jindl: Why did I spend 3 rounds to throw an acid flask? Draw (move) + throw (standard). Where does it say that I have to prepare it as a full-round action? PHB, p128 and p158 doesn`t say anything about this. It even says that it breaks on impact. But let`s assume that you were right for a moment: thanks for adapting my tactics to this changed circumstances. This is what I want to see from Pitlords! If something doesn`t work then either send a mail or adapt in the fight. Using Corona to seal the necks was the most logical way I would`ve chosen if I would`ve known that the throwing an alchemists fire needs 3 rounds to do. BTW, the heads have 11 hp each but that`s still within my minimum damage so no impact. |
| Jindl04-17-04, 10:34 AM | Originally posted by Caterane @Jindl: Why did I spend 3 rounds to throw an acid flask? Draw (move) + throw (standard). Where does it say that I have to prepare it as a full-round action? PHB, p128 and p158 doesn`t say anything about this. It even says that it breaks on impact. Check the PHB, pg 141. On Table 8-2 it says preparing to throw a splash weapon is a full round action. Acid flasks are splash weapons. The progression of actions is draw (move action) + prepare (full round action) + throw (standard action). Originally posted by Caterane But let`s assume that you were right for a moment: thanks for adapting my tactics to this changed circumstances. This is what I want to see from Pitlords! If something doesn`t work then either send a mail or adapt in the fight. Using Corona to seal the necks was the most logical way I would`ve chosen if I would`ve known that the throwing an alchemists fire needs 3 rounds to do. BTW, the heads have 11 hp each but that`s still within my minimum damage so no impact. Of course I am right :D Oh, and according to the MM, pg 155, the heads of a 5-headed hydra have 10 hps each. If I had not adapted your tactics, then the hydra would have ended up with 8 heads when you ran out of alchemist fires. Then you would have needed to start using the sword to burn the heads anyway. So I guess I saved you 3 flasks of alchemist fire, and saved myself 30+ rounds of 10+ rolls each. One thing to note: Grapple attacks are not a handle animal trick. Actually, in the complete warrior (I think) they add grapple as a seperate trick, so we know it isn't covered under the attack trick. Of course, since it isn't core, you can't teach the hydra to grapple. So, if you ever decide you want your hydra to grapple, you'll need to "push" it to do so, which will require a fairly high Handle Animal check. Just FYI, since you seemed to think that the hydra would be very effective as a grappler. But, if it had improved grab, then it would grapple on its own... -Jindl |
| Caterane04-17-04, 10:46 AM | Au contraire, mon capitain. First of all, PHB,p74 says "Possible tricks include but are not limited to the folowing" Then, Iron has his megaraptor trained a trick that it activates the boots of haste. And I`ve seen others. Grappling so not such a difficult or special maneuver and every creature can do this, so it seems teaching to grapple someone isn`t all too difficult. |
| TaggIIV04-17-04, 10:59 AM | Originally posted by Jindl It may not change the outcome of the fight, but if you don't mind making these minor corrections ... erm.. may I ask how that is considered minor? for if Sharptooth doesnt die off the coup de grace, he snaps out of the sleep because he sustained damage, and Heinrich loses invisibility because he attacked; this sets a whole new angle to the match and would easily allow a comeback |
| Jindl04-17-04, 11:01 AM | The megaraptor is trained in the perform trick, which I think is a clever and creative way to click the heels together and activate the boots. But grappling is against the very nature of a hydra, and requires its own trick. The grapple trick isn't core, the dc for teaching it isn't set, and so it must be pushed. Additional tricks beyond those listed are not core, just as additional familiars beyond those listed (or additional improved familiars beyond those listed), etc. etc. The attack trick merely tells a creature to attack using its normal method of attacking. For a brown bear this would mean claws with the possibility of improved grab. For a lion it would mean pounce+rake+improved grab. For a hydra, it means bite+bite+bite+bite+bite. Of course, if you can speak with animals you could tell it to grapple. Or, you can make the handle animal check to push it. -Jindl |
| Jindl04-17-04, 11:03 AM | Originally posted by TaggIIV erm.. may I ask how that is considered minor? for if Sharptooth doesnt die off the coup de grace, he snaps out of the sleep because he sustained damage, and Heinrich loses invisibility because he attacked; this sets a whole new angle to the match and would easily allow a comeback Its minor because the damage would still be around 15+ pts. That would be a Fort save DC of 25+ which Sharptooth is still unlikely to make. Except of course, it wouldn't be a CDG. I agree with you that if he knew it wouldn't be a CDG, then he would use his bow instead of scorching ray, with the probabilities you describe below. I didn't say that it wouldn't change the ending, just that it most likely wouldn't change the outcome. |
| TaggIIV04-17-04, 11:31 AM | hehe.. maybe.. except there needs to be no fort save; his attack was a scorching ray (explicitly stated in tactics) which can't be used as a coup de grace, yet deals damage to snap out of sleep and counts as an attack as far as invisibility goes. anyway lets assume he used a longbow as aproper coup de grace. the minimum damage dealt would be 3, making for a fairly simple Fort save (natural 6 required). the average damage would be 12-13 (3d8), which makes a difficult yet quite feasible fort save, and would require a natural 15-16 to succeed. the maximum damage would be 24 which would require a natural 20 on the save for automatic success; very unlikely to happen and probably would fail. anything over 16 damage would also require a natural 20, so same scenario.. now i suppose it is likely he could just cast color spray on sharptooth as soon he got up after the failed kill and then CDG him, but that also has chance for failure (will save), and if sharptooth is able to get but one attack with his greataxe in there is a decent chance of heinrich being killed; on a noncritical, a min of 8, an average of 12-13, and a max of 19. on a critical, a min of 24, an average of 39, and a max of 57. *recheck* ok, so a slightly worse than decent chance since i would need to roll max damage on a non-crit for it to kill him :p well there.. ive analyzed just about all possible factors and required rolls for various things and now im done.. i'll just wait for arstimis to roll the durn things instead of speculating :p *walks off, exhausted from the typing* |
| Jindl04-17-04, 02:13 PM | Originally posted by MotherBast Animal Companion Please note improved stats Perductoris The Wolf Medium Animal HP: 45 (6d8) 6d8 = 27, + 12 from con (wolf should only have +2 mod) = 39. Initiative: +3 Speed: 50ft AC: 19 (+6 nat, +3 Dex) FF 16, touch 13 BAB/grapple: +4/+5 Melee: +8 Bite / 1d8 + 3 / 20x2 Special Attacks: Trip Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent Saves: Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +3 (+ 4 vs enchant) Abilities: Str 15, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 Wolves have 15 con, and con is not incressed by druid level, nor do animals gain stat bonuses ever 4 HD. This score should still be 15 Animals do gain stat bonuses every 4 hd. All creatures do. When an animal companion gains hd, it gets the skill points, feats (every 3rd hd), and ability score boost (every 4th hd) just like any other animal. The only thing it doesn't get is increased size. The original stats for the wolf are correct. I don't think it mattered in the fight, as Dusk would have just killed the wolf a round or two later. Originally posted by MotherBast Dusk dismisses the power in his hands, (drops bow), and attacks Corinthus with all he has. The two exchange teeth and claws, but Dusk gains the upper hand. (Full attack: 19 + 9 = 28, hit. 5 + 9 = 14, hit. 17 + 4 = 21, hit. Damage = 10 + 11 + 10 = 31 damage.) Corinthus bleeds from many wounds, but he is not about to give in to Dusk. Cori: 11/53 (9, -28) BE 7/30, BS Dusk: 21/31 (9, -29) SoF 20/20 Round 30 Dusk's magical defences suddenly vanish, and Corinthus takes the oppertunity to press the attack. He and Dusk again go claw to claw and tooth to tooth. (Full attack: 12 + 8 = 20 vs. AC 22, miss. 7 + 8 = 15, miss. 17 + 3 = 20, miss.) Corinthus comes close to scaring Dusk twice, but Dusk is able to barely avoid defeat, and counter attacks the deamon. (Full attack: 20! con roll 6 + 9 = 15, confirms. 2 + 9 = 11, miss. 14 + 4 = 18, hit. Damage = 20 + 10 = 30) Once again the two powerful forces assail one another with tooth and claw. Shouldn't Corinthius's AC be higher than 14? He's in black bear form with a +3 barkskin effect running. His AC should be 16 (+1 dex +5 natural). It looks like the second claw in round 29 would miss, and the crit in round 30 is not confirmed. Still, I doubt this would have much effect on the fight, as Corinthius would only have 12 hps left after round 30 (and will likely die after Dusk's next full attack.) But, it wouldn't hurt to roll another round of attacks and be sure. -Jindl |
| freemoody04-17-04, 03:49 PM | Was Dusk getting a shield bonus from his Tower Shield and the Shield of Faith Effect at the same time? If not how his AC get up to 31 with out going Full Defense? |
| Jindl04-17-04, 03:58 PM | Originally posted by freemoody Was Dusk getting a shield bonus from his Tower Shield and the Shield of Faith Effect at the same time? If not how his AC get up to 31 with out going Full Defense? Tower shield and shield of faith do stack (SoF is a deflection bonus.) -Jindl |
| MotherBast04-17-04, 04:32 PM | The Barkskin was a scroll, at min caster level, so only +2 AC. As for the animals getting stat ups, I checked and your right, they do. I had no idea. Yeah, the wolf would have had 6 extra HP, but it wouldn't have affect the fight at all that I can see. I'll have to check out Dra'kel now and see if Dusty dosen't get a stat up :D |
| Kazzaroth Pan'theon04-17-04, 07:08 PM | I have posted Krhoir's and Tassadar's figth. Check if there are mistakes or missunderstandings. btw; I DID NOT ADJUST THE NUMBERS! Even that TaggIIV char was last time foe to mine char, this is not revenge or such! Even myself I cannot believe the online dice roller when it rolled such poor results for Krhoir! I am sorry TaggIIV for throwing so badly to your char :( . The online dice roller was cursed I tell you! |
| TaggIIV04-17-04, 08:05 PM | *eyes Kazzaroth fishily* I bet that pesky drow has it in for me.. the salty bass tert! lol jkjk anyways i do see one thing that might be relevant: DISABLED (0 HIT POINTS) When your current hit points drop to exactly 0, you’re disabled. You can only take a single move or standard action each turn (but not both, nor can you take full-round actions). You can take move actions without further injuring yourself, but if you perform any standard action (or any other strenuous action) you take 1 point of damage after the completing the act. Unless your activity increased your hit points, you are now at –1 hit points, and you’re dying. Healing that raises your hit points above 0 makes you fully functional again, just as if you’d never been reduced to 0 or fewer hit points. You can also become disabled when recovering from dying. In this case, it’s a step toward recovery, and you can have fewer than 0 hit points (see Stable Characters and Recovery, below). (excerpt from 3.5 SRD) this means that at 0HP i am not unconscious and susceptible to a coup de grace; i am still conscious and would beable to heal myself some the next round, and then start attacking again. |
| cellardweller04-17-04, 11:13 PM | Round 3: Arkin: Casts MM, deals 4 damage, hide again (18), 14/14, (4,3) Bloodmaiden: Spot check (14 vs 18 failed), wastes the turn. 5/17 (1,3) A reasononable amount of common sense must be prescribed for gladiators. Arkin has just cast an offensive spell, and Shiaan didn't see him move anywhere so she must be hiding exactly where he was spotted on the turn before. A simple move would have broken cover and allowed her to attack. [edit:] and you missed the -20 to hide for sniping. [edit2:] and flamestrike should have been attacking - she is able to detect with scent as a MEA. |
| Arstimis04-18-04, 03:11 AM | Dang, thats embarrasing, i never knew you couldnt do a coup de grace with rays or energy missile spells. And the auto success/auto fail is new to me. I thought saves and skill rolls worked more the same than saves and attack rolls. I will fix those things right now. Since he couldnt have coup de graced with scorching ray i will have him coup de grace with his bow, as that seems the most logical thing to do. Edit: The fight has been updated, and it should now be correctly done. |
| Jindl04-18-04, 10:20 AM | @Kaigan - One thing about the Pard vs Aramil fight: CDG's draw AoO's. So, both times that Aramil CDG's Pard, the horse gets an AoO on Aramil. This is likely to be irrelevant at the beginning of the fight (when Pard is held). But, at the end, Aramil had a single hp, and the horses AoO could have dropped him negative, interrupting the CDG. Then it would be a matter of who stabilized / bled to -10 first. Could you roll the horse's AoO at the end of the fight and settle this issue? -Jindl |
| Kaigan04-18-04, 11:12 AM | @Jindl: I've fixed both of the AoO from the horse. Did not change the outcome, but almost did. |
| Magagumo04-18-04, 12:09 PM | @Jindl I know that the Druid HD give feats, but bonus stats? Bonus stats are only for player characters, as monsters do not get these stats due to advancement, and monster characters begin getting bonus stat points when their class level plus monster HD equal a multiple of 4 [so a Xill, w/ 5 HD, does not get a stat point from his 4th HD, but will from his 8th if he's taking class levels]. As far as I know, druid companions are not treated as player characters/NPCs for the purposes of stat points, so the wolf does not get the Con bonus. There's a trade-off to using the 1st level creatures at high levels, as they are rarely quite as tough as their dire cousins, but the fact that they are getting extra attacks, evasion, and resistance to mind-control is meant to balance this point out. However, no stat points are awarded. One big clue to this? The creatures are already going bonuses to Strength and Dexterity at a regular basis, as this makes them tougher. Meanwhile, paladin mounts get increased Strength and Improved Intellgence (so they can regularly confer and assist their master). If druid companions got stat points, you would begin to see people ocassionally place points in intelligence, making the creature automatically a magical beast (any creature with int higher than 3), and that gets extremely complicated for player and GM. Thusly, by making their advancement through "bonus" HD, the companions retain their power without becoming nightmarishly complicated. Aftr all, +1 to Str & Dex for 2 HD is far more than any stat point. |
| freemoody04-18-04, 12:49 PM | Pro: In Monster Manual pg 290, Under Improving Monsters/ Ability Score Arrays/ Ability Score Improvement: "Whenever a monster reaches a number of Hit Dice divisible by 4, it improves one ability score by 1 point.".... Con: In the Animal Companion section, in the Druid class description, in the Players Handbook(pg36), notes that the Animal Companion gains improved BAB, Saves, Skill Points, and Feats. But doesn't mention anything about ability score increases. I'd say they get them. But I'm biased. |
| Magagumo04-18-04, 01:09 PM | No, I think you're right. And thank you so much!! :) I've been looking for that reference for ages, as it used to exist in Savage Species, but the advancement of the otyugh in the MM does not follow that rule. [It should list two stat increases, but it only ists size changes] I could see al;lowing the companions to get stat boosts then, but don't touch the mental scores, perhaps. I doubt anyone wants to make their Dire Wolf more charasmatic or perceptive, but that intelligence increase would screw them up a lot. |
| freemoody04-18-04, 01:23 PM | If thier intelligence was raised to three or more then I believe they would become magical beasts, and magical beasts can't be Animal Companions. If thier Intelligence was 1 and was raised to 2, then they could learn more tricks. (Note that although Animial Companions are listed as Magical Beasts in the Players Handbook, The Errata says that they are indeed animals.) |
| Aramil Dunskar04-18-04, 01:35 PM | To the players who I will be 'dming' there fight, please excuse the wait for the fight I have been tied up in RL so if I cannot get to the fight I shall ask one of my fellow Pitlords to do if for me. Thank you. -AD |
| Caterane04-18-04, 02:15 PM | @Capt.Mutilate: Invisibliity and Alter self not on the spell list of a wizard??? Perhaps you should recheck your PHB. |
| Captain Mutilate04-18-04, 02:20 PM | Wait... >looks at character sheet< Says here Spellbook: Malleus Maleficarum 10/100 Level 0: Read magic, resistance, flare, touch of fatigue Level 1: Color Spray, expeditious retreat, mage armor, shield, shocking grasp That's his spellbook, not his memorised spells. I don't see invisibility or alter self on it. Plus, he's not the appropriate caster level. There is a check for that, but he needs to have the spell on his list. Damn spellcasters are so confusing. I can redo the fight, but he won anyways, and with invisibility and the natural armor, he would have won even more... |
| Caterane04-18-04, 02:24 PM | Spellbook is irrelevant but the list in the PHB p192 following is. |
| Captain Mutilate04-18-04, 02:28 PM | Okay. The spelllist is there because it it generally assumed all wizards have every spell in their spellbook, and they just memorise it out of that. Al here, doesn't have every spell, therefore it isn't in the character's spelllist, even though it is in the general wizards spellist. |
| Captain Mutilate04-18-04, 02:32 PM | Okay, okay.. I see what you're saying now. My bad (again). Other then that, everything else was fine, right? Al still won, so do you want me to redo it? (I edited in the usage) |
| Arstimis04-18-04, 02:34 PM | I havent read the fight, but i assume you mean he is casting it from the scrolls. A wizard doesnt have to have the spell in there own spellbook to be able to cast it from the scroll. They have to have it on thier spell list, the Wizard Spell List. |
| Caterane04-18-04, 02:35 PM | DMG. p238: scrolls The user must have the spell on his class list (see the spell lists in chapter 11 or the PHB for which classes can carry which spells) |
| Magagumo04-18-04, 03:18 PM | @Captain The wording is tricky, so its easy for newer DMs to get confused (it confused me the first time I saw it). But yea, scrolls make the sorcerors happy, since they've got limited access to spells, and wizards enjoy the bonus feat :). Druids & clerics still benefit, but sicne they can access every spell anyways, its generally functioned as a back-up/rarely used spell source (like Remove Paralysis, which is not generally helpful until the ghouls come) in the campaigns I've observed. Also, the Destruction Domain grants a specific Smite ability- listed in the Domain Section of CH. 11 in PHB. Kedi mistakenly described it as +4 to both attks and damage (only +1 to damage from cleric level) but is otherwise correct. Also, is one considered unamred while holding a charge? Also, couldn't Golratha have drwan her weapon while moving to Alberich, meaning she could have held her charge with inflict and still have gotten an AoO when he attempted to grapple her? Also, I'm unsure if one can activate the Shocking Grasp with a touch, and then use that touch to grapple. I think he'd need to take a separate action to do so. @Aramil Fight looked well-run, good job noting mistake on player's sheet. Only thing I would mention is that you neglected to have the wolf try a trip attempt after biting Boldrift on Round 3. Not really important, but good for us to know our mistakes :) |
| Caterane04-18-04, 04:22 PM | @Kaigan: Round 5, an 18 is not an automatic hit. 18+5 = 23 vs Ac26 wouldn`t have even hit. Then you mentioned Ac20 but Sven had Ac26. And Sven has to make a handle animal check Dc20 to have the horse attack. |
| kedi04-18-04, 04:26 PM | thx/plusIdliketoknoxwhyIdidntatackatthe3Rdro und/pluswithsmiteabilityimightwonthematch/IfyoucouldrerunthematchIdbeglad,ifilosea tleastbeitinafairway/sorryforno-space-post,ihadtousecharmapsincemykeyboardisnt workin:)/ |
| Kaigan04-18-04, 04:29 PM | ok, i forgot the handle animal check, but even so isn't it just DC 10 not 20. And doesn't a falchion crit on 18, or is it only on a natural 20 that it is an auto hit? |
| Caterane04-18-04, 04:32 PM | PHB, p74: Handle animal, attack Dc20 ONLY a 20 auto-hits. An 18 threatens with a falchion but you still have to hit the AC. |
| Kaigan04-18-04, 04:34 PM | ok, thanks, changing it right now. Edit: Changed it, outcome still the same. |
| Kazzaroth Pan'theon04-18-04, 05:07 PM | Okey, edited the change TaggIIV (I asumed that you do nto provoke attack of oppoturnity by tkaing potion while you can cast defensively, so I used healing spell). But it did not change outcome (you only managed to hit once and squirm 3 turns in ground). But one advantage you got, I saved you 1 bolt! I realized that you cannot prepare weapon if you use standard action to cast enlarge, so you made turn ealrier your preparation. Darn! I did not take account a bloody horse and glaive charge! ANd for wizard changing himself a creature wich is hard to hit! My invisibillity defeat tactics were useless. Well, at least in next match I auto-level (and buy HUNDREDS Faith shield potions and CLW potions). |
| Battousai200504-18-04, 06:31 PM | @Arstimis: Sheesh. -21. And on a fair rolling system. Who can say "insanity?" @Kaigan: ...lucky... |
| freemoody04-18-04, 06:37 PM | Originally posted by Caterane PHB, p74: Handle animal, attack Dc20 ONLY a 20 auto-hits. An 18 threatens with a falchion but you still have to hit the AC. The DC 20 is for teaching the animal the "Attack" trick. This takes one week. If the animal already knows the trick, then it is just a handle animal check DC 10. And takes a move action(or a free action for an animal companion) If the animal doesn't know the trick, then it is a "push" animal check DC 25. And takes a full-round action(or a move action for an animal companion). pg 74 PHB. |
| MotherBast04-19-04, 07:19 AM | Celler: One Major Major error in the Candy vs. Harvy fight. Hold Spells will not trigger his domain power as they are not "magical effects the impeed movement" Hold spells prevent him from taking actions, witch will of course prevent him from moving, but impeeding movement is not an effect of the spell. By that logic, Tasha's HL would also trigger the power since it prevents him from taking actions as well. Only spells that have an actuall effect on his movement would trigger this power. This was not a rules oversight on my part. This was something you should have e-mailed me to ask about, and I could have pointed this out to you before the fight. |
| Caterane04-19-04, 11:32 AM | That was absolutely ran correctly. Before I show you the exact passage in the books, tell me: if Hold person/monster doesn`t "impede movement" what else does? *blubberblubberblubber-phewwww* Motherbast strikes again. Travel domain: like freedom of movement for spells and effects, PHB p188 Freedom of movement: protects from paralysis, solid fog, slow, web, etc, PHB p233 Hold person/monster: "The subject becomes paralyzed PHB, p 241 Come on Motherbast, you`re an Elder Mod and you would`ve done a major error if you would`ve ran the fight! Of course Travel domain negates hold spells!! Any other questions? Hey, you passed every SR check!! |
| MotherBast04-19-04, 03:20 PM | I'm not saying freedom of movement dosen't negate Hold spells. I was saying that Hold spells don't activate the Travel domain power. If you will notice, Freedom of Movement also negates grapples, but the Travel domain power is not activated by being grappled. For a spell to "impeed movement", it has to have a direct effect on movement. Hold person does not. It has an "indirect" effect on movement, in that it negates your ability to take actions, which is its effect. That prevents you from being able to move. That at least was my train of thought when I wrote it. But while I was at work today I got to thinking that Hold spells also make it impossible to blink, wiggle your toe, pick up a sword, and all sorts of other things I would call movement. Howerver, as you yourself pointed out to me Cat, in the D&D game, that stuff is not movement. Only going from one square to another is movement, as per the results of our last argument. So, while the Travel domain would negate Hold person spells if it was active, a hold person spell would not activate it, since the description says. "The held person freezes in place and can take no actions" It does not say the spell impeeds movement in any way. One could make a case that "freezing in place" has an effect on movement, but being "frozen in place" is not an actual condition in the D&D game. That is description to accompany the actual effect the spell has of being able to "take no actions." Like I said, THL also imposes the effect that the subject can take no actions. So by your logic, THL would also activate the domain power. I'm not asking for a re-run. And if you will read my tactics Cat, I fully expected you to win. I fully expect you still would have won if the domain power had been run correctly. I'm not trying to take your win at all, so no need to get defensive. I'm only trying to help someone see a little deeper into the rules than they previously did. Just because something looks right on the surface, dosen't mean it is when you actually get down to the "letter of the rules." |
| Caterane04-19-04, 03:27 PM | Motherbast, I won`t continue to respond to this nonsense. I just hope that none of the newer pitlords read your reasoning and make a serious mistake in their fights. Post it in the tavern if you want to discuss it with someone else. |
| MotherBast04-19-04, 03:32 PM | To say that it is nonsense is, quite frankly, wrong. You, and everyone else on these threads by now, know that I go strictly by the letter of the rules. If they don't make sense to you, stand in line. They don't make sense to anyone else either. But, if you can tell me what error I have made in stating the rules, as they are written, I will gladly retract my argument. But, as I said, I'm not looking for a re-run or anything. I'm firmly aginst re-runs. I just want to make others, like the newer pitlords you mentioned, aware. But, I've been thinking about it. I can find no error in the rules as I have written them, but the more I think about it, the more the it seems to me the travel domain "should" protect against Hold spells. I can't see any why, applying the rules, that it would. I think its because of the way Hold person is written. If anywhere in the spell it stated, 'the target is unable to move" it would qualify. Instead, it states the target "can not take actions." That dosen't qualify. Later in the spell, at the very bottom, it does say a flying creature can not flap its wings. As Cat explaned to me before though, that isen't movement. It also says a swimmer can not swim. Swimming is movement. So, if it were cast on someone swimming, it would impeed their ability to swim, and activate the power. Rather silly eh? I think the problem is in the wording of the spell. Personaly, you all know my oppinion on that. If its written in the book, it is set in stone untill "officaly" changed. Cat is a beliver more in the "spirit" of the rules. I can completly see his point of view. I just don't share it. More often than not, though, this CoCo uses the "spirt" of the rules more than the "letter of the rules." I'm sure most people do the same in their own games, so I typicaly bow to the "spirit", when it isen't to greatly in contention with the rules. This is a small infraction. Still, the rules are the rules. |
| Magagumo04-19-04, 05:05 PM | Ok, I've kept non-fight issues to the Tavern (see most recent post) but I'd like to put my own 2c in here: Reading over Travel Domain (which has already been quoted numerous times) it does appear that the spell functions like Freedom of Movement, but only in regards to magical effects that specifically impede movement. Now then, "impede movement" appears to be a very specific statement, referencing the spells Web, Slow, and Solid Fog as per the Freedom of Movement spell. This would suggest that only the effects of slowing the character would be affected, but we must notice the statement "you can act normally" in the Travel domain. By stating that the character can act as well as move, we are presented with the suggestion that paralysis is always negated by the Domain, although only magical paralysis can be so effected (i.e. Hold Person). Thusly, it does appear that the Domain's description states that any magical effect that prevents a character from moving normally can be prevented. In the case of Tasha's Hideous Laughter, the character is deprived of their actions only, not merely prevented from moving as well, so I would perhaps argue that this spell is exempt from the Travel domain effect, as would Daze or any spell that produces a stunned effect. You cannot act in these situations, but that is not due to inhibited movement, it is due to inhibited mental activity or uncontrollable laughter. |
| Tellish_of_Ket04-19-04, 06:36 PM | Originally posted by Caterane PHB, p74: Handle animal, attack Dc20 I like your selective reading Cat. That's to TRAIN an animal, not to give it, it's command to attack. Kaigan had it right, it's DC 10. :cool: -ToK |
| Tellish_of_Ket04-19-04, 06:39 PM | Originally posted by Jindl The megaraptor is trained in the perform trick, which I think is a clever and creative way to click the heels together and activate the boots. But grappling is against the very nature of a hydra, and requires its own trick. The grapple trick isn't core, the dc for teaching it isn't set, and so it must be pushed. Additional tricks beyond those listed are not core, just as additional familiars beyond those listed (or additional improved familiars beyond those listed), etc. etc. The attack trick merely tells a creature to attack using its normal method of attacking. For a brown bear this would mean claws with the possibility of improved grab. For a lion it would mean pounce+rake+improved grab. For a hydra, it means bite+bite+bite+bite+bite. Of course, if you can speak with animals you could tell it to grapple. Or, you can make the handle animal check to push it. -Jindl Speaking of clever uses of the handle animal tricks...use the FETCH command to "grab" the other guy. lol Saves you having to make a DC 20 'push' check. -ToK ps. not staying long, just dropped by to read a few posts. |
| Magagumo04-19-04, 07:14 PM | @Cat Um.. looking over Grym vs. Aku fight, why diod Aku's hp change? The polymorph spell clealry states that you retain your own hp, and Aku's amulet of Health can still be worn in his Annis hag form, the both of them having necks. I see that the loss of hp didn't make a huge difference in this fight, but I thought I should point it out at least... I should also note the fear I have at learning that rend works with rake attacks.. much fear indeed. |
| Caterane04-19-04, 07:20 PM | @Mag: Since the hag has a lower Consti Aku's hp change accordingly. I forgot the amulet though but I don`t think 8 hp more would`ve changed anything. |
| Jindl04-19-04, 07:35 PM | @Cat - 1. Mag is correct. Both the hps and the amulet stay the same in polymorph. WoTC even clarified this in the FAQ. Hps do not change in polymorph and the amulet can still be worn. Aku should have had 24 more hps at the end. (Meaning he only went to -18). 2. Why did you ignore my tactics and not cast shield? It was the second buff I wanted, before chill touch. It would have raised my AC to 24 and prevented one of his attacks from hitting me. If you had cast shield like I said to, it would have prevented 21 pts of damage. Add 1+2 = Aku is still alive after Grymm's last full attack. Aku now has a full attack and Grym has 4 hps. Aku can only miss on a 5 or less. Aku should win this fight. Also, Grym should have made concentration checks in Rounds 5+6 for the continueing damage of the Acid Arrow. The checks were not automatic (though he only needs a 4 or 5 to pass each one) because the DC is 10+damage+spell level and his check was +14. Both spells he cast (mage armor and bull's strength) had an impact later in the fight, as they both survive the dispel magic and affect whether attacks missed/hit and the damage dealt. Okay, Tellish answered this for me. It's actually 10+half the damage+spell level, which made the DC 15 in both rounds, which is automatic with his +14 modifier. FYI: A rod is a weapon-like object, and can be drawn as part of a move action by anyone with a +1 or better BAB. That is how Aku can start with his hands empty, draw the rod of lesser extend spell while moving, and then cast Acid Arrow, all in the same round. -Jindl |
| Caterane04-19-04, 07:38 PM | I`ll check it tomorow Jindl. It`s 2 AM now. |
| Arstimis04-19-04, 07:38 PM | @Cat: I just noticed one thing your forgot about Troglodytes. The Stench. Dante never had to make that fort save. If he failed that could have prevented him from hitting me at all, hehe. Anyways, good fight, although it was not really the type of story i would have liked to see with Zaphod...oh well. What do you expect from some weirdo modding your fight :P |
| Jindl04-19-04, 07:45 PM | Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Speaking of clever uses of the handle animal tricks...use the FETCH command to "grab" the other guy. lol Saves you having to make a DC 20 'push' check. -ToK ps. not staying long, just dropped by to read a few posts. I read this and thought, that could work. I'd better check that. Sadly, the Seek trick is defined as getting an object. So, it can't be used to grapple a creature. Good "outside the box" thinking tho. @Cat - G'night. Let me know what you think in the morning. Re: Travel Domain power - I agree with MotherBast's first statement. The domain power is specific that it only activates to negate magical effects that impede movement. "Impede movement" is a specific term in DnD, one which is specifically used when a creatures Movement rate is reduced. Some examples are the slow spell, an entangle spell, the web spell, the sleet storm spell, etc. All of these spells have a specific effect on movement. Hold person does not effect movement. It affects the mind's ability to take actions. Inability to take actions is not impeded movement. I don't think the travel domain would be activated by a hold person effect. Of course, in the fight in question, both the SR and Will save would have to be overcome, which is highly unlikely. -Jindl PS: Specific, specific, specific, specific, specific, specific, lol! :d |
| SnarkHunter04-19-04, 07:51 PM | Oy, Mag's computer networky thing just died, but he wished to mention that the FAQ errated Polymorph. However, it seems Jindl has already mentioned this *Shakes old man fist* Ah well, Mag can be crazy when there's a presentation to be written. Also, its a Fort Save for Stench, what with the not getting sick and all ;) |
| Arstimis04-19-04, 07:54 PM | Originally posted by SnarkHunter Also, its a Fort Save for Stench, what with the not getting sick and all ;) Ya, thats what i said...but for some reason my keyboard typed it out wrong |
| Aramil Dunskar04-19-04, 08:26 PM | I keep thinking that I forgot something for my level up. Could someone please check over my character and let me know if in fact I did miss something or I'm just being paranoid. Thanks -AD |
| Mercy04-19-04, 08:47 PM | @hatzinger - when did zephin escape the entangle? Also why didn't the tiger and skooter go into the entangled area? |
| freemoody04-19-04, 08:51 PM | It seems that when Zephin casts Fly that he doesn't have to make the Escape Artist check for breaking out of the entanglement in round five. |
| Hatzinger04-19-04, 08:55 PM | hm.... i let him escape the entangling plants with his fly spell because it was made in earlier fights. as you mention it... yes, i think that might be an error. the wolf and tiger didn´t enter the entange area because they couldn´t move far enough. and in the next round the elf was already away/in the air. damnit! and i thoughed that would be an error-free fight. |
| Tellish_of_Ket04-19-04, 09:00 PM | Originally posted by Jindl Also, Grym should have made concentration checks in Rounds 5+6 for the continueing damage of the Acid Arrow. The checks were not automatic (though he only needs a 4 or 5 to pass each one) because the DC is 10+damage+spell level and his check was +14. Both spells he cast (mage armor and bull's strength) had an impact later in the fight, as they both survive the dispel magic and affect whether attacks missed/hit and the damage dealt. Hold person does not effect movement. It affects the mind's ability to take actions. Inability to take actions is not impeded movement. I don't think the travel domain would be activated by a hold person effect. -Jindl Actually, Jindl, it's only HALF dmg from the last dmg dealt. With a +14 modifier that still doesn't make it automatic, but that also depends on the dmg dealt. max dmg in the previous round before needing to make the conc. check is 8 pts (2d4), half of that is 4, making a maximum DC of 14+spell level, and a minimum of DC 15. I didn't read the fight, but just take half of the continuous dmg that was last dealt. That should tell you if the conc. checks were automatic or not. Hold spells only function is to NOT just prevent you from taking actions. It PARALYZES you, you are considered HELD as well. By even the most infantile defination, Travel Domain is affected by the various hold spells. To think otherwise is, well, infantile. lol -ToK |
| Magagumo04-19-04, 10:15 PM | Actually, I believe past fights have allowed one to avoid becoming entangled, provided one flies at least 5' off the ground. However, once one has become entangled by the plants (thus requiring a Str or Escape Artist Check to free oneself), you're in there till you make the check, or the spellends. And woe be to any Moderator who sees any entangle spell actually end in this arena, for that is a stupidly long fight ;) |
| KerlanRayne04-19-04, 10:32 PM | Originally posted by Caterane Now that Grym reverted back to his original form he had to rely on his manufactured weapons again but since he wouldn`t have gotten the multiattack feat anyway it didn´t matter. Just to note, Alter Self gives racial bonus feats, and Multiattack has a 'B' next to it meaning that it is a racial bonus feat. So yes, he would have gotten multiattack. KerlanRayne |
| Captain Mutilate04-20-04, 02:14 PM | I've redone the Golratha/Alberich fight. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3178552#post3178552 |
| KerlanRayne04-20-04, 03:07 PM | @Cat: Jost a couple of notes. Grym has a BAB of +6/+1 so there would have been two attacks in round 10. Also, I wanted to add the bite attack to the two Halberd attacks. In the Trog description it lists a full attack with club and natural weapons so I assume he can do it too. No need to change anything as it would only add more damage. Thanks! KerlanRayne |
| ^Rayne^04-20-04, 09:17 PM | Myrridin, You did not run the rules for sundering properly and Aiki was severely punished as a result. In all of your sundering examples you ignored the weapon's hardness when deciding if it was sundered or not. This meant that you destroyed Aiki's weapons too soon when they should have been functional. This is a huge concern because you took away his weapons when they shouldn't have been destroyed at all. You did this over and over again and the end result of this fight is completely invalidated because of it. Examples: Kage sees that his valiant steed missed entirely, and goes to sunder Aiki's beloved ancestral katana (Sunder: 9+9+4(size)+4(two hands)=26 vs 9+8=16. Damage: 6+6=12 vs Hp of sword 5, destroyed) and is rewarded by the sound of his bastard sword crunching through Aiki's katana. The Katana isn't destroyed: 12 damage only does 2hitpoints of damage to the Katana after subtracting 10 damage from the swords hardness. That means Aiki still gets to use the blade. Kage tries to destroy one of the weapons before him (Sunder: 4+9+4+4=21 vs 2+10=12 Damage: 2+6=8 vs 5 hp, wakizashi is destroyed!) This weapon wouldn't be destroyed at all because 8 hitpoints of damage doesn't even exceed the weapon's hardness and therefore did NO damage to the weapon. Since this would have been a strike against the Katana it also would mean Aiki would still be using both weapons at this point! Kage sighs at this, and tries to destroy one of the butterfly knives (Sunder: 18+9+4+4=35 vs 17+9=26, Damage: 6+6=12 vs 2 HP, destroyed!) This is another mistake, only 2 hitpoints of damage would actually happen and this would be against the Katana which would still be functional and have 1 hitpoint remaining. So Aiki would still have the use of both weapons and still have his AC bonus for using two weapons which you now took away. Kage decides that the butterfly knives has tasted his flesh one to many times, and tries to destroy it again. (Sunder: 20+9+4+4=37 vs 7+11=18, hits, Damage: 5+6=11 vs 2 hp, destroyed!) Once again you ignored hardness and at his stage the only weapon destroyed is the Katana. This would have only dealt 1 hitpoint of damage to the blade by the way so it wouldn't have destroyed the Wakizashi or either butterfly sword if it had hit them. These critical factors are VERY big and do directly cost Aiki the fight. I am very concerned about these mistakes because they completely change the outcome. Aiki may still lose but first off he wouldn't be defenseless and he wouldn't be running and he wouldn't have lost his shield AC bonus. These make the fights results completely messed up. I would like a redo on this as I see the mistakes are not minor and do seriously change the way this fight would turn out. I also would like someone among the Elder 8 to take a look at it and audit the fight. Rayne |
| Arstimis04-20-04, 09:24 PM | Sorry Rayne, i thought that was a mistake when i first saw it too...but it is because Kage has an adamantine katana. It really sucks... |
| ^Rayne^04-20-04, 09:45 PM | Arstimis, thanks for the reply. I was aware Adamantine was superior but I thought it just added an additional +4 to his sundering attempts. I didn't realize that it ignored Aiki's sword's hardness all together. Myrridin sorry about my mistake. I already though after reading the fight that I was going to have Aiki build all of his future blades of Adamantine. Now I will be doing this for sure as I don't want this kind of crap to happen again. The sundering rules seem a bit too powerful to me but that isn't your problem. Sorry again if I seemed to jump the gun but I wasn't aware that the Adamantine quality made the weapon's so powerful. It looks like it will be time to sell all of Aiki's weapons and replace them with Adamantine versions. |
| Myrridin04-21-04, 08:38 AM | Rayne: Not a problem. I had to check on the Adamantine properties as well. It was researched to make sure I ran it correctly, and I found that it's incredibly powerful to have an Adamant weapon going up against a regular one. It makes sundering WAY too easy. i.e. If Kage hit Aiki's sword, it was done. Aiki's only hope was to be able to make the Sunder attempt miss, which it did a couple times. |
| Magagumo04-21-04, 08:51 AM | As a note of personal advice, enchanting your weapons helps against sundering. First of all, their weapon's number bonus must eb as high as your weapons (I'm afraid as a 2-weapon guy, Aiki will be behind forever), but it also adds 2 hardness and 10 hp. Obviously, even a +5 iron weapon is going to be hurt by adamantine, but 10 extra hit points are really nice. I'm also afraid that by being Small, Aiki takes penalties to Sunder, Trip, Grapple, and Disarm checks. Sorry dude,that is the penalty for Small characters :-/. Of course, you could always enlarge him.. The other bit of advice I could give is somewhat of an extension fo the rules, but you can make the weapons out of mithral. There's not set price for this, as there is rarely any ebnefit to having a mithral weapon (helps if your character is abnormally weak I suppose). You simply examine the weight of your weapons (which is low for a Small character) and multiply by 500gp/ lb. If you construct mithral weapons, then they have a hardness of 15, and by +3 enchantment, are no longer adversly affected by adamantine. One final thing, it is possible to make any object out of mithral or adamantine, using the gp/weight rules. For flowing objects (cloaks) metal mesh works nicely as a description. Something I learned against sunderers who go after your worn items instead :) |
| Alterlat04-21-04, 09:22 AM | Originally posted by Magagumo As a note of personal advice, enchanting your weapons helps against sundering. First of all, their weapon's number bonus must eb as high as your weapons This got errata'ed in the latest FAQ update and no longer applies. Now even a non-magical weapon can sunder a magical one, as long as it can beat the hardness. So if you want protection from sundering, adamantine is the way to go. |
| Myrridin04-21-04, 09:48 AM | Oh yeah, I noticed the disadvantage that Aiki was at. He's Small size, and doesn't use his weapon in two hands. I think it adds up to +8 the other guy gets compared to what he has...which is just rough when adamantine is what your opponent is using. |
| Magagumo04-21-04, 12:57 PM | Huh, that got errated too? Joy for me! *looks at Snark, coughs* I mean, joy for me! :devil: |
| Jindl04-21-04, 07:19 PM | Please redirect all future discussion to the Tavern. This thread is closed. -Jindl |