| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Jindl04-09-04, 12:04 PM | Please post any comments and concerns about the fights of the week of 4/7/04 on this thread. -Jindl |
| SnarkHunter04-09-04, 02:44 PM | @Kaigan: the fight looked fine from what I could see but for some reason none of your collor tags seemed to work. I don't know if you can fix it or not I'm just saying. |
| Jindl04-09-04, 04:21 PM | @Kaigan - A glaive is a reach weapon. In the fight, Sven double moves forward (on horseback) and attacks with his glaive. This means he stopped 10 feet from Katarina due to the glaives reach weapon qualities. Katarina then takes a 5 ft step back and drinks a potion. On the next turn, Sven moves the horse 5 feet forward (putting her in reach of his glaive again) and attacks. But here is where the mistake is. The horse then makes a full attack, even though it has a 5 foot reach and she is 10 feet away. In reality, the horse could not attack because she is out of its reach. You should probably correct this mistake, since it is just Friday. Also, it should be {/color} , not {/color=blue}. (Replace the "{" with "[" and "}" with "]"). @Kedi - A couple of things for you: 1. Please don't just link the characters. Instead, please copy and paste both character sheets and tactics in each fight post. This is because we want the fights to preserve the version of the character that existed at that level. The links merely show the current version (which in a couple of weeks may reflect a much higher level character). So, don't just link it. Instead copy/paste the character sheet (minus any RP fluff). 2. Also, we all appreicate a story with a fight, but it is vital to include a round-by-round description in game terms as well. This helps us to check the fight for errors, as well as helping players to critically analyze their strategies to improve them. Please add a round-by-round description to your fights (in addition to the optional stories.) 3. We don't use the instant death rule. Just the normal critical hit rule. If you could please make these changes, I would appreciate it. Thanks! -Jindl |
| Mercy04-09-04, 04:57 PM | @Kedi - Also when figuring damage from a critical hit, you don't roll once and multiply. On a critical hit you roll the damge dice once for each critical multiplier and add the applicable damage for modifiers for each critical multipler. For example: If a creature with a +1 Frost Shortsword with a +1 dmg due to Str and has weapon specialization (shortsword) gets a critical hit his damage would be (1d6 shortsword +1 Str + 1 Magic +2 specialization + 1d6 frost) + (1d6 shortsword +1 Str + 1 Magic +2 specialization) Note that the 1d6 frost is not added in the second time. |
| Limit04-09-04, 08:08 PM | Originally posted by Battousai2005 You cannot make an AoO with a ranged weapon. From the 3.5 SRD: "Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monks attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full." "Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action." Emphasis mine. I suppose I thought that monk could hold one weapon/item/damsel in distress, and still kick anyone who drew an AoO. Ah well, back to the drawing board. |
| Kaigan04-09-04, 08:44 PM | @Jindl: All right i fixed it, the fight was only a couple rounds longer. |
| Battousai200504-09-04, 10:54 PM | Originally posted by Limit From the 3.5 SRD: "Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monks attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full." "Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action." Emphasis mine. I suppose I thought that monk could hold one weapon/item/damsel in distress, and still kick anyone who drew an AoO. Ah well, back to the drawing board. Ah. Forgot about that. It didn't come into play, thankfully. However, the rest of the fight has been redone. However, next time, you may want to remind your mod about that rule. Its a bit obscure and most of the time I would assume that the attack of opp it made with the equiped weapon. |
| kedi04-10-04, 12:52 AM | Originally posted by Mercy @Kedi - Also when figuring damage from a critical hit, you don't roll once and multiply. On a critical hit you roll the damge dice once for each critical multiplier and add the applicable damage for modifiers for each critical multipler. For example: If a creature with a +1 Frost Shortsword with a +1 dmg due to Str and has weapon specialization (shortsword) gets a critical hit his damage would be (1d6 shortsword +1 Str + 1 Magic +2 specialization + 1d6 frost) + (1d6 shortsword +1 Str + 1 Magic +2 specialization) Note that the 1d6 frost is not added in the second time. Ooo, then it makes 34 damage, thx mercy :) and, aftr cheking my fight.... battousai: Drink a bulls strenght potion as it begins. INTIMIDATE. Yea, go on and indimidate. Then go and attacks furiosly. Use potion of mage armor if the opponent hits easily twice. Use potion of cure when 10 hps remain. If cant hit at the second time, then skip the power attack. Use crosbow if the opponent runs away. Rage if the person is near and can hit easily. I especially noticed that I wasn't going to rage at the first round! I said if he's near and I can hit easily, then rage at the moment! And you didn't use my recent char sheet, seeing that I have no +1 breat plate in the updated sheet. |
| Battousai200504-10-04, 01:12 AM | Originally posted by kedi battousai: I especially noticed that I wasn't going to rage at the first round! I said if he's near and I can hit easily, then rage at the moment! And you didn't use my recent char sheet, seeing that I have no +1 breat plate in the updated sheet. [/B] First off, it is not my fault that I got your old character sheet. That is yours. Especially since you are NOT supposed to update after pairings are posted. I ran the fight after said pairings were up. If you edited after that, then your DQed anyway. Second, sorry about the rage. But tell me honestly, did it make a difference? You still won. Kindly do not complain that it was not flawless. I was not at all sure what you ment as your tactics were jumbled and abbreviated. If you want me to do specifics, then submit tactics next week. |
| kedi04-10-04, 01:25 AM | Originally posted by Battousai2005 First off, it is not my fault that I got your old character sheet. That is yours. Especially since you are NOT supposed to update after pairings are posted. I ran the fight after said pairings were up. If you edited after that, then your DQed anyway. Second, sorry about the rage. But tell me honestly, did it make a difference? You still won. Kindly do not complain that it was not flawless. I was not at all sure what you ment as your tactics were jumbled and abbreviated. If you want me to do specifics, then submit tactics next week. pls wait, did I win?? I'm sorry, I thought I lost! :) (It happens when you have just woke up and haven't drank a cup of coffee :)) Well, nvm on it. And I'm really not sure if I edited geez, I'm happy! thx for moderatin' the fight. :) @jindl: I posted char cheets, tactics, and theround-by-round fight. Enjoy! *jiggle dance to celebrate his winning* |
| Limit04-10-04, 09:53 AM | @Battousai2005: Yes, thank you for moderating the fight! I have learned some things this week, the most important of which is to include clear notes of obscure things in my tactics. One other thing of note: Crossbow, Light: You draw a light crossbow back by pulling a lever. Loading a light crossbow is a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity. It's the heavy crossbow that takes a full round to reload, which is how The Voiceless' light crossbow was treated in this fight. All in all, I lost four attacks this battle but I learned to denote this stuff for next week. Oh, and curse your monk-hating dice :dice: ;) |
| Battousai200504-10-04, 11:57 AM | @Limit: Actually, my dice hate everyone that isn't a person with an obvious advatage. I really think it strange. I've rolled the fight for Ony vs. Enilias. Should be up soon. |
| Caterane04-10-04, 12:26 PM | @Kaigan: Round 1: Magic missile is medium range (120 ft) so Kati couldn`t cast it in round 1. Round 1: You can start mounted at the beginning of combat but you let Sven enter beside his horse. Round 3: Sven needs a handle animal check (Dc20) to command the horse to attack. You didn`t roll a check the horse didn`t attack which evens it out again, though this was a mistake too. |
| Kaigan04-10-04, 12:56 PM | Originally posted by Caterane @Kaigan: Round 1: Magic missile is medium range (120 ft) so Kati couldn`t cast it in round 1. Round 1: You can start mounted at the beginning of combat but you let Sven enter beside his horse. Round 3: Sven needs a handle animal check (Dc20) to command the horse to attack. You didn`t roll a check the horse didn`t attack which evens it out again, though this was a mistake too. Fixed the magic missle had him ready it. He did not specify whether he wanted to start mounted or not. And i just had him attack instead of the horse, although i guess he did want the horse to attack, it would ot have changed the outcome if i had let the horse attack. |
| Caterane04-10-04, 01:07 PM | He did not specify whether he wanted to start mounted or not. You had to choose between starting mounted, or starting not mounted and taking an action to mount anyway, and chose the first :confused: [Mental note to myself: my usual 6 pages of tactics might still not be enough for the pitlord to understand my intentions] And i just had him attack instead of the horse, although i guess he did want the horse to attack, it would ot have changed the outcome if i had let the horse attack. Perhaps not in this fight, but it might be the case in teh next one. It`s not a question wether it would`ve changed the outcome or not but a fact that this is a mistake. Btw, Sven: move action to command horse (including handle animal check) + standard action to attack with glaive, horse: move action to move within range, standard action to attack = both attacked. |
| Kaigan04-10-04, 01:47 PM | @Cat: Alright, i fixed up the horse thingy. I made him attack with Sven, in round 4. Hope everything is fine now. |
| Caterane04-10-04, 01:53 PM | @Kaigan: :thumbsup: |
| Aramil Dunskar04-10-04, 06:57 PM | @Caterane: I would just like to say that all clerics are not devoted to a particular diety. It even says so here in the PHB: (quote)"If your cleric is not devoted to a particular diety, you still select two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities (but the restriction on alignment domeains still applies)"(end quote) So my character could gain his spells technically by following his own set of morals and beliefs which are further guided by his domains. One more thing, I would like to know why you had me running during Round 3, my strat says to either move and attack or move towards the opponent, I did not specify to run towards the opponent. Just confused on my part. |
| Caterane04-10-04, 07:04 PM | @Aramil: I know about the no deity thing but you still have to write something there, an ethos perhaps, or a philosophy. It`s a bit hard to come up with a story when there`s only so much background provided. As for the running: you have 20ft speed, Nivek 40ft. Even with you making a double move Nivek would`ve been equally fast and still able to shoot arrows every round. A run was the only option to get into melee range, else you would`ve just been shot down like a punk. Edit: Oh and another thing: there were many things not mentioned in your tactics so with no pitlord adjustment (like the running) which not everyone does! you might lose more often than necessary. If you`re interessted in a good example on how to structure tactics check out the Harvester's or Ixidor's. Harvester tactic sheet (scroll down to purple letters) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3039448#post3039448) |
| Arstimis04-10-04, 09:01 PM | I loved the final story Cat. Kiowen would do something like that too. .....you just made one mistake in the fight, although it didnt make a difference, i would think you want to know The eagle is a very intelligent creature that speaks common, he is not an animal. All i have to do is speak to him and tell him to do something. Just thought you would like to know that for future fights |
| Aramil Dunskar04-10-04, 10:20 PM | Originally posted by Caterane @Aramil: I know about the no deity thing but you still have to write something there, an ethos perhaps, or a philosophy. It`s a bit hard to come up with a story when there`s only so much background provided. As for the running: you have 20ft speed, Nivek 40ft. Even with you making a double move Nivek would`ve been equally fast and still able to shoot arrows every round. A run was the only option to get into melee range, else you would`ve just been shot down like a punk. Edit: Oh and another thing: there were many things not mentioned in your tactics so with no pitlord adjustment (like the running) which not everyone does! you might lose more often than necessary. If you`re interessted in a good example on how to structure tactics check out the Harvester's or Ixidor's. Harvester tactic sheet (scroll down to purple letters) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3039448#post3039448) Ok then I'll make a lot of modifications to my strats next battle. And I just found out that Tempus has my domains, so that should fix a lot of things up shouldn't it? -AD |
| TaggIIV04-11-04, 09:06 AM | Originally posted by Arstimis Sharptooth chases after the back and calms down once he gets it and finds 1700 gold just noticed a teeny error.. sharptooth may have been level 2 during the encounter, but ECL 3 - I believe he is supposed to be rewarded 2,700gp :) |
| Jindl04-11-04, 10:09 AM | Originally posted by TaggIIV just noticed a teeny error.. sharptooth may have been level 2 during the encounter, but ECL 3 - I believe he is supposed to be rewarded 2,700gp :) This is true. GP awarded is based upon the level of the fight. Sharptooth just won an ECL3 fight = 2700 gp. Don't spend it all in one place... -Jindl |
| Arstimis04-11-04, 11:31 AM | Originally posted by TaggIIV just noticed a teeny error.. sharptooth may have been level 2 during the encounter, but ECL 3 - I believe he is supposed to be rewarded 2,700gp :) oh ya..sorry about that, i meant 2,700 oh and Tagg, do you think next time you could not do your tactics in that code..its kinda annoying to have to scroll so far to the right to finish a sentence |
| Kazzaroth Pan'theon04-11-04, 12:31 PM | Well, I do not know can the figth changed (darn that was SO close victory!). I meanted whit my hide tactic that I move FARTHER away from Sharptooth (staying out LoS) and fire my bow from position where he could have not reached (at least for 1 turn). Also is not strength modifier also doubled whit the critical? Even whit the bow I mean. In the criticall hit rule it only says that special ability, sneak attack or flaming (or other elemental damage) is not modified. Is not the strength modifer wich is added to the weapon considered as "basic damage"? One of the players in my group said that strength modifier bonus whit the weapon must also quadrupled when critical hit occurs. After all, strength modifer bonus is not considered as special ability. Is the player in my group wrong or is this more perspective opinion? If he is rigth, I would had managed jsut a just put sharptooth into -3 state whit my last attack (because I would had made then 4 more damage whit my criticall bow attack). |
| Arstimis04-11-04, 12:38 PM | Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Well, I do not know can the figth changed (darn that was SO close victory!). I meanted whit my hide tactic that I move FARTHER away from Sharptooth (staying out LoS) and fire my bow from position where he could have not reached (at least for 1 turn). Also is not strength modifier also doubled whit the critical? Even whit the bow I mean. In the criticall hit rule it only says that special ability, sneak attack or flaming (or other elemental damage) is not modified. Is not the strength modifer wich is added to the weapon considered as "basic damage"? One of the players in my group said that strength modifier bonus whit the weapon must also quadrupled when critical hit occurs. After all, strength modifer bonus is not considered as special ability. Is the player in my group wrong or is this more perspective opinion? If he is rigth, I would had managed jsut a just put sharptooth into -3 state whit my last attack (because I would had made then 4 more damage whit my criticall bow attack). I kept you away from him as long as i could...4 rounds i think. He had a higher speed than you, so he would catch up. Edit: Fixing mistake now Im not to sure about the strength being multiplied when crited, if it is then i am more than willing to change it, and fix it so its correct |
| MotherBast04-11-04, 01:10 PM | The strength damage is also doubled, or trippled, depending on the weapon's crit mod, on a critical hit. If you do 1d8 +2str, +1magic and crit with a bow at x3, the damage would be 3d8 +6str +3magic. So the str bonus should have been included. |
| Kazzaroth Pan'theon04-11-04, 01:15 PM | Well this is just my opinion; I think it should be. Let's think logically. Strength modifier (negative/positive) alters the basic damage what the weapon makes. So it is no special or magicall adding. So in criticall hit a greater strength can make uglier result (by putting the weapon deeper). If any rule lawyer can confirm this, then please do. This is critical (no pun intended) to know because it decides who won the figth. |
| Kazzaroth Pan'theon04-11-04, 01:17 PM | .......Then I won! My bow would have made so much damage that I would had killed Sharptooth whit my last attack! The composite shortbow+2 made only 3d6+2 damage when criticall appeared when I shotted! |
| Battousai200504-11-04, 01:17 PM | Why are we debating when the ansawr is in front of us? In the PHB on P140, it says that you basically make 2,3, or 4 attacks (depends on what your weapon is). The only thing that is not multiplyed is elemental damage. |
| Arstimis04-11-04, 01:19 PM | I edited my post...i started changing my fight. And i am done now new fight is posted |
| TaggIIV04-11-04, 01:21 PM | Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Well, I do not know can the figth changed (darn that was SO close victory!). I meanted whit my hide tactic that I move FARTHER away from Sharptooth (staying out LoS) and fire my bow from position where he could have not reached (at least for 1 turn). Also is not strength modifier also doubled whit the critical? Even whit the bow I mean. In the criticall hit rule it only says that special ability, sneak attack or flaming (or other elemental damage) is not modified. Is not the strength modifer wich is added to the weapon considered as "basic damage"? One of the players in my group said that strength modifier bonus whit the weapon must also quadrupled when critical hit occurs. After all, strength modifer bonus is not considered as special ability. Is the player in my group wrong or is this more perspective opinion? If he is rigth, I would had managed jsut a just put sharptooth into -3 state whit my last attack (because I would had made then 4 more damage whit my criticall bow attack). no.. you would have put me to 1. I had 1 HP normally, but 5 total from Rage. 4 more damage wouldnt have killed me |
| Kazzaroth Pan'theon04-11-04, 01:27 PM | Ah, I forgot that (curses for barbarian's resilienty). But after few turns you would had went uncousion (after the figth I mean, if you do not posses extra CLW potion on you). |
| Battousai200504-11-04, 04:09 PM | True, but the first to die looses. |
| SnarkHunter04-12-04, 08:39 AM | Only 1 note-In round 10 of the donkey vs. Paul fight, the set against charg action with a longspear doubles damage delt. If that would have killed the pegasus right off the AoO could have been done against paul. Nothing huge, just noting for posterity. |
| Caterane04-12-04, 08:43 AM | @Snark: Right, but then there wouldn`t have been an AoO because the ready action took place when he entered your reach. Since he wouldn`t have moved any closer then, and you stated that Donkey wants to go within 5ft once Paul is grounded, the outcome would`ve been the same. I`ll alter it now. |
| barrel_master04-12-04, 01:02 PM | Ha ha, hey why didn't I ever use my boots of speed? Nothing huge I'd say though. |
| Caterane04-12-04, 01:45 PM | ARGH!! Quick run fights are really bad. Easter robed a lot of my time. Sorry Barrelmaster. I can offer you a rerun if you want and Snark accepts. |
| barrel_master04-12-04, 02:19 PM | Originally posted by Caterane ARGH!! Quick run fights are really bad. Easter robed a lot of my time. Sorry Barrelmaster. I can offer you a rerun if you want and Snark accepts. Ar, that's okay... it's really not that bad. You had 3 fights and put effort into all of them. That's all anyone could really ask of you. |
| Myrridin04-12-04, 02:39 PM | Please take a look at the Vryk vs Jo'Li fight for me. I asked a question about how to handle movement after escaping a grapple, but never got an answer. |
| Mustadio[MoF]04-12-04, 06:20 PM | That has to be the most confusing fight i have ever seen. I did send tactics, but I guess they were not recieved. It's hard to make heads or tails of what happended, from the looks of it though, im guessing I only used 3 Xbow bolts. Am I right? |
| Hatzinger04-12-04, 08:13 PM | @Kedi: The reason we all do this here is to learn about builds and rules. As you posted this fight, we are not able to see what happened. You could as well not post at all. Edit: and btw, its always a good idea to reply on the tavern thread that/if tactics were received. Else, misunderstandings can happen. And noone likes misunderstandings here when oneīs characters are involved. |
| Arstimis04-12-04, 08:44 PM | [+2 bit & briddle] I think MW tools were being restricted to Craft Items It was recently ruled to include ride(bow: 14+9 vs. AC 10, hit. 3damage This attack still would have hit me, but so you know for later fights, The opponent isnt considered flat-footed if he loses init. And the bow shot was made from more than 110 ft away, so would have distance penalties. he probably wanted to move closer. Aemon should be affected by Tasha's Hideous Laughter for rounds 6, 7, and 8, So i should have another round to attack him He makes a 5-ft.-crawl, Crawling provokes AoO (AoO from whip: 15+11 vs. AC19, hit. 6damage. Free grapple check: 14+15 vs. 10+3bab+3str, success. Laucian is dead and grappled. This would have happened in Round 9. A dancing weapon cant threaten. It does not get AoO. That is the only reason i would try and sunder it If you could please change these mistakes, i would appreciate it. If not...well...sucks for me |
| MotherBast04-12-04, 10:13 PM | Arti: You are concidered Flat-footed if you loose init. You are always flat-footed untill you take your first action, even if you are aware of your opponit. At one time, it was discussed that we might house-rule in the arena you were not flat-footed at the start of combat, but the discussion was shortlived and the change was decided against. |
| Jindl04-12-04, 10:14 PM | 1. The restrictions on mw tools has not changed. MW tools may only be used for Craft, Profession, Handle Animal and Perform. Only the exceptions noted in the PHB are allowed (mw thieves tools for open lock/disable device, for example). The mw bit and bridle is not allowed. 2. As is true in ANY normal DND combat, the opponent is flatfooted if they lose initiative. 3. Yes, Hideous Laughter does have a duration of 1 round/level. 4. From the SRD: You may crawl 5 feet as a move action, granting an AoO to any opponents who threaten you. 5. Correct. Dancing weapons cannot take attacks of opportunity. @Arstimis - You have pointed out some valid (and some invalid) errors. @Hatzinger - I think you should take a closer look at the fight in light of these things. -Jindl |
| Arstimis04-13-04, 03:25 AM | Originally posted by Jindl 1. The restrictions on mw tools has not changed. MW tools may only be used for Craft, Profession, Handle Animal and Perform. Only the exceptions noted in the PHB are allowed (mw thieves tools for open lock/disable device, for example). The mw bit and bridle is not allowed. 2. As is true in ANY normal DND combat, the opponent is flatfooted if they lose initiative. -Jindl posted in the Council of Elder Mods Masterwork Tools: Should we add Ride to the list of skills with [Ma]tools? (a) Yes (b) No (c) Abstain (1) Caterane: Yes; (2) Moherajikuyx: Yes; (3) LLMadCow: Yes; (4) Motherbast: No; (5) Snark: Abstain; (6) Tellish: Yes Result: Yes: 4 votes; Abstain: 1 vote; No: 1 vote That's where i got my information about the mw Ride tools. Also, i thought the conclusion was that since you know you are going to fight an arena battle, and since you can prepare for it, you arent caught off-guard and flat-footed when the fight begins. I guess i was wrong |
| Hatzinger04-13-04, 03:57 AM | - The MW bit and bridle thing didnīt affect your ride skills anyway, no matter what the current ruling is. - Hideous Laughter had 3 rounds duration. The first round was in the round it was cast. If you had won initiative, that would have been better for you. Since you didnīt ... - Hm, i wanted the "crawl" to be a 5-ft.-step while being prone. Iīll check into that matter. - Ok, iīll check the dancing weapon thing as soon as i return home today. @Jindl: inspired by this MW tool question, i have a suggestion for the boards. What would you think about a threat in which the results of all rulings are posted? Without any discussion posts or anything; just for easy reference. Or does the poll threat list up everything that has been discussed? |
| KerlanRayne04-13-04, 04:09 AM | Originally posted by Jindl 5. Correct. Dancing weapons cannot take attacks of opportunity. Doesn't matter if it's dancing or not. Whips don't threaten any area. Originally posted by SRD The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you dont threaten the area into which you can make an attack. KerlanRayne |
| MotherBast04-13-04, 07:23 AM | For spells and effects that last a certain number of rounds, they do not end at the start of round x, they end on the init count they bagain on in round x. For instance, Arti is fighting Bob. Bob goes first, then arti THLs him for 3 rounds. The laughter will end on turn 4, but not untill Arti's init count, so Bob will laugh on turn 4, and miss his actions. So you see, it dosen't matter wether or not you win init when dealing with the duration of spells. It is also important to keep track of the init count the spell ticks away on, becuase if the player readies or delays, it will no longer be the start of the casters turn when the spell ticks. |
| Hatzinger04-13-04, 10:15 AM | hmm... sounds logical, M(f)B (:D ). Iīll edit the fight when i come home. |
| Arstimis04-13-04, 01:54 PM | Round 9 - Aemon canīt do anything. He stops laughing just before Laucianīs action. - Laucian casts Ray of Enfeeblement on Aemon. (casting defensively: 13+10 vs. DC17, success. ray: 16+4 vs. AC19, hit. Str-4.) His horse Justiciar continues to attack Aemon. (hoof 13+6 and hoof 3+6 and bite 1! Vs. AC18-4prone hits and misses and misses. 9damage.) Aemon @-10/0, 11/34hp, Str-4. Laucian @-10/-1, 5/33hp, shield 8/30, mage armor 7/1800, see invisible 6/300. Round 10 - Aemon draws his feather token (whip) and activates it. The whip attacks Laucian. (whip: 12+11 vs. AC19 hits. 2damage. Free grapple attack: 3+15 vs. 5+3bab+3str. Unarmed damage: 4damage.) - Laucian is unconscious. (stay in saddle: 09% = successful). Aemon @-10/0, 11/34hp, Str-4. Laucian @-10/-1, -1/33hp, shield 9/30, mage armor 8/1800, see invisible 7/300. I see you edited....sort of. All you had me do was cast Ray of Enfeeblement again...but i dont even have it memorized twice. So i should have attacked instead. Also...it would have been nice if you kept the same rolls, instead of rolling over. I passed the grapple check the first time Also when i do go unconcious my horse will continue to fight and attack Aemon. Im not dead at -1 |
| Hatzinger04-13-04, 02:03 PM | yes, yes. i already edited it. you just happened to look at your fight while it was under construction. EDIT: ...and without its rider available to guide it, a warhorse goes away from the danger. |
| Arstimis04-13-04, 02:06 PM | Round 10 - Aemon draws his feather token (whip) and activates it. (whip: 19+11 vs. AC19 hits. 6damage. - Laucian is unconscious but stays in the saddle (53% = success.) Aemon @-10/0, 4/34hp, prone. Laucian @-10/-1, -1/33hp, shield 9/30, mage armor 8/1800, see invisible 7/300. yes....you changed the last round and kept the rolls the same, except for the damage the whip did. Now it does more damage ( it was 2) so that it could kill me exactly the same so you wouldnt have to change the outcome of the fight.... Edit:EDIT: ...and without its rider available to guide it, a warhorse goes away from the danger. No it doesnt...it is trained to defend me. |
| Druid Roxors04-13-04, 03:19 PM | @ Jindl: Just one (or maybe two) little questions. - Why was I not flying? The whole point of transforming myself into an eagle is that Mr Monk cannot hit me. Although I didn't specify, all my buffs (lightning protection, fire protection, call lightning, produce flame) account for me being a sniper from the sky and him retaliating in the same way. I should have been airborne. - Although I failed my spelcraft check, my spot check was automatic, I saw him meld into stone very clearly and shouldn't have been that careless by stepping into his stone. Edit: - Also, why didn't I use a bolt of lightning on the first round of the grappling (when he hadn't brought me to his square) and the next ones? (Resist energy) |
| Pitlords04-13-04, 03:27 PM | @Druid - What you saw was that he was at the rock one minute, and gone the next. Perhaps he went invisible? You don't know, because you failed your spellcraft. Your tactics never said anything about what to do if he disappeared. You were also casting full round spells while trying to fly with an average manueverability. The logical thing to me was to fly to the last known position and search for him. Since you wanted to cast a summons (the hippogryph), I thought it would make sense to land and get it done, instead of wasting 2 rounds casting it. Besides, the hippo could help you look for your foe. So, that is why you went to that location, and why you landed. I would much rather not have to make these kind of decisions (like I did for both your character and MotherBast's character). Please try to account for more in your tactics next time. BTW: There are two mistakes that I noticed, neither of which has no bearing on the outcome. The first is that in eagle form, your melee touch attack should have been +1 better, due to the small size. I'm sure all the pitlords would appreciate it if you could include the stats for whatever form you are planning on shifting into, instead of us having to figure it all out (something which I have been doing lately for my shapechanging characters). The second is that Dra'kel cast bears endurance, which should have given him 12 more hps. [EDIT]Regarding using call lightning, here was the reason why: 1. It takes a standard action to concentrate on the spell to make this happen. So, since you are grappling, you would have to pass a concentration check DC 23, and in eagle form your check is only a +10 due to the eagle's Con 12. So, you were likely to fail this check. 2. Then, if you did succeed, the bolt would likely affect you as well, since your reflex is only a +6 in eagle form with cat's grace because you lose your racial bonus and your dex is 19, while the DC is 18. On a failed save, you stand a 40% chance of taking damage yourself. 3. Meanwhile, Dra'kel has almost as good a reflex save as you (his is +4 in bear form). So, it seemed a better idea to use produce flame in a touch attack (at no risk to yourself), than to maybe be able to concentrate on a call lightning which might do just as much damage to you as it does to him. Of course, if you had written something about grappling in your tactics, I wouldn't have had to make this kind of decision. -Jindl |
| Druid Roxors04-13-04, 03:46 PM | @ Jindl: I suppose I should have been more specific with the fact that I wanted to stay airborne. In any case, why didn't I use Call Lightning with my protections? Within the grapple check it would have been wiser to. - Wildshape to a bear - Attempt Escape Artist - Shoot with bolts The last one because: - No touch attack required - Allways hits - No checks required (it is a standard action, no components or nothing) Edit: Nevermind, concentration checks are quite difficult while grappling. But a successful escape artist check would allow me to fly away and win. |
| Hatzinger04-13-04, 03:50 PM | Originally posted by Arstimis yes....you changed the last round and kept the rolls the same, except for the damage the whip did. Now it does more damage ( it was 2) so that it could kill me exactly the same so you wouldnt have to change the outcome of the fight.... 1) ahhh... i forgot your social behavior problems. some things never change, do they? If you had asked nicely, i would have told you that i rolled all rolls again. But as you didnīt, i wonīt answer to such insulting, presumptuous accusations. 2) nope. a horse without rider to guide it goes away from "the hurt". I assume you donīt want to know what happens to a grappled an unconscious character thatīs dying and getting unarmed damage each round while his horse runs away and his enemy can get out his greatsword to join in the fray. I spared us the description. The fight result is not in question. |
| Jindl04-13-04, 03:53 PM | [Got the right Login now.] Again, when you don't list it in your tactics, you can't expect your pitlord to come up with everything. Perhaps wildshaping into a bear would have helped. But at the time it seemed like dealing damage was a better option. Note: To use the bolts, you would have wasted a round wildshaping back to normal, then another round trying to escape, then another round loading the crossbow, etc. To use escape artist as an eagle, you would have to give up your attack for the round, and you still would have at least a 50% chance of failure. I already discussed the reasons for using produce flame instead of call lightning (see my edited post above). Please note the spell description says you must use a standard action to concentrate on the spell in order to call down a lightning bolt. Concentrating on a spell may require a concentration check. I've already discussed the DC's involved in such a check when you are grappling. The biggest failure in the fight was the failure of both players to write comprehensive tactics. MotherBast's tactics broke down in the first round! Your's lasted until the 5th round or so. But, I think you should have written some "If I am grappled" tactics, especially since you were matched up against a grappling druid. I'm sorry if I didn't make the same choices you would have, but lacking any tactics, I could only do what I thought your character would do (which is to burn him.) -Jindl |
| Druid Roxors04-13-04, 04:02 PM | @ Jindl: I concur, as I said in my tactics, I was on vacation and didn't have enough computer time to make comprehensive tactics. As you know my tactics allways encompass most aspects of the match and work out perfectly. I was almost sure I had written tactics for those aspects of the battle but I didn't. In any case, thanks alot for running the fight and answering to my questions. |
| Arstimis04-13-04, 04:11 PM | Originally posted by Hatzinger 1) ahhh... i forgot your social behavior problems. some things never change, do they? If you had asked nicely, i would have told you that i rolled all rolls again. But as you didnīt, i wonīt answer to such insulting, presumptuous accusations. Ok, first you tell me you kept the same rolls (the rolls where i was not grappled because i had a higher grapple check, the first time) and it should stay that way. Then you roll them again and oh look, this time it does more damage, rather than the 2 damage it did the first time you rolled, so you still get knocked unconcious. Notice both of my quotes. Is it really that odd to make an assumption? oh, and by all the rolls, i assume you mean only the attack and damage rolls for the whip, cause none of my rolls were changed. All the misses and hits stayed the same 2) nope. a horse without rider to guide it goes away from "the hurt". My horse knows the Defend trick, as do all warhorses. The animal defends you without any command given. That means my horse will defend me, even if i dont command it to. Now please show me where you got your information from. I assume you donīt want to know what happens to a grappled an unconscious character thatīs dying and getting unarmed damage each round while his horse runs away and his enemy can get out his greatsword to join in the fray. I spared us the description. The fight result is not in question. How about the real description. If you kept the first rolls i would not be grappled and unconcious. but for your sake, lets assume I am. The whip is grappling me, so my horse defends me. How is it going to defend me? By attacking the thing that is hurting me. So my horse attacks the whip (sunder). Aemon gets up or crawls away to get up and draw his sword. My horse gets an AoO from one of those two things, Aemon goes unconcious from the damage. If done right there is a good chance i would actually win Oh...and another question I had is why i took those many rounds attacking his horse. My horse has scent. Aemon was 30 ft away. So my horse could have pinpointed his scent. Guess that means those 3 rounds i spent only attacking his horse were kinda a waste of time, when my horse could have easily found him. But oh well, i guess i shouldnt tell you that you made a mistake...you wont fix it anyways. |
| Hatzinger04-13-04, 05:05 PM | @Arstimis: - when i remake rounds, i roll all rolls again. i donīt look up which rolls were made before. - and when you go unconscious, your horse is without guidance. without guidance, an animal goes away from "the hurt". - if your warhorse could "seek", you could use its scent ability. As warhorses donīt have "seek", there is only the possibility to cast "speak with animals" to use itīs scent ability or to order it to "attack the next creature that it scents". apart from that, you canīt use this animalīs scent ability. Arstimis, i am sick of how you argue and argue and argue and never accept a loss when you loose a fight. itīs every time the same with you. you try to conjure some "rules" out of your wizard-hat, and might the benefit be as little as possible, you argue about it as if the world depends it. Even if a rule was already discussed with you in earlier fights. you just canīt take a no for a no, and get aggressive. noone else makes such a fuss when he looses. we are not here to win fights but to test builds and tactics. and yes, sometimes you may loose. but i tell you what: i donīt want to mod any of your fights again. perhaps you can bully younger pitlords into accepting everything what you say, but i have had enough of that. i donīt want to argue with you endlessly every time you loose. i have enough. |
| MotherBast04-13-04, 05:15 PM | Arti: Your last post was quite disrespectiful to Hat, who appears to have made every effort to correct the mistakes made in his fight. I belive you owe him an appolgie. Secondly, your horse does not know the "seek" trick, so even though it has sent, you have no way to tell it to hunt for your foe. Now, Hat: Arti is correct about the Defend trick. A normal mount does run from combat unless directed, but the Defend trick causes a mount to attack anyone, or anything, attacking its rider auto-maticly. This trick is always "active", and dosen't stop when the rider is knocked out. The horse would have stayed and defefended Arti. Secondly, keep in mind that it is not necessary for you to re-run any fight you make an error in. As a matter of fact, re-runs are strongly discouraged unless it is a major error. Do not ever feel you "must" rerun a fight because of an error you made. The general rule of thumb is don't re-run the fight unless it is almost certain the outcome would be different. If it is a case of "I might have won if..." then it generaly does not merit a re-run. |
| Arstimis04-13-04, 05:21 PM | Originally posted by Hatzinger @Arstimis: - when i remake rounds, i roll all rolls again. i donīt look up which rolls were made before. ok, i just thought only rolls that needed changing should be changed, not everything. You shouldnt fix something that didnt need to be fixed in the first place. Oh..and if that is true..about changing all the rolls in the round. Why didnt my horse get new rolls in Round 9? - and when you go unconscious, your horse is without guidance. without guidance, an animal goes away from "the hurt". then tell me what the defend ability is used for? Please tell me where you get "the animal goes away from the hurt" from. The Defend Trick is from the PHB under Handle Animal skill. Part of the reason to by a warhorse instead of a normal horse. - if your warhorse could "seek", you could use its scent ability. As warhorses donīt have "seek", there is only the possibility to cast "speak with animals" to use itīs scent ability or to order it to "attack the next creature that it scents". apart from that, you canīt use this animalīs scent ability. Ah yes...i just assumed that if an animal had scent, and couldnt see the enemy he would scent the enemy out himself Arstimis, i am sick of how you argue and argue and argue and never accept a loss when you loose a fight. itīs every time the same with you. you try to conjure some "rules" out of your wizard-hat, and might the benefit be as little as possible, you argue about it as if the world depends it. Even if a rule was already discussed with you in earlier fights. you just canīt take a no for a no, and get aggressive. noone else makes such a fuss when he looses.Hahahahaha you obviously havent met Kiowen then have you. anways, i argue when i feel something was done wrong. And i feel the point of a defend trick is that the horse will defend its master when his master has been downed we are not here to win fights but to test builds and tactics. and yes, sometimes you may loose. Yes, and isnt it hard to test builds when a rule is done incorrectly. You cant test a good build in a bad system but i tell you what: i donīt want to mod any of your fights again. Fine with me, if thats what you want. perhaps you can bully younger pitlords into accepting everything what you say, Shhh...dont tell anyone else my secret, i would hate for anyone else to find out im a big ol' bully but i have had enough of that. Oh im sorry, have i bullied you too mcuh? i donīt want to argue with you endlessly every time you loose. i have enough. I wouldnt argue if I lost correctly Edit:Arti: Your last post was quite disrespectiful to Hat, who appears to have made every effort to correct the mistakes made in his fight. I belive you owe him an appolgie. Secondly, your horse does not know the "seek" trick, so even though it has sent, you have no way to tell it to hunt for your foe. He started being rude. "treat others as you want to be treated". I only responded with the same attitude he had towards me. I just wonder what is the point in have the ability to scent, when you cant use it for finding the enemy. And it kinda sucks that i cant teach him the ability to seek, cause a horse can only know 6 tricks |
| Jindl04-14-04, 03:41 PM | This thread is now closed. Any further discussion should be re-directed to the Tavern. -Jindl |