Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Luni 08-24-05, 04:04 PM	This thread is for questions, comments, and concerns solely regarding the pairings, quests, and campaigns for this week. Let me see. I live in MDT which is 6 hours behind GMT. Therefore, the deadline is in 1 hour. If I'm wrong, they'll point it ou to me. The rules of the COCO can be found here: Rules of Gladius (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448520&origin=) Have fun, be nice and no yelling and screaming.
Luni 08-24-05, 04:12 PM	@Caterane: Can you please give me Ch'Ch'ili and Sir Valkin? I have both their tactics, but I didn't have time to run it before pairings.
TelinArtho 08-24-05, 05:05 PM	*** Paging The Phantom Lord and The Pulverizer *** Your bus is ready at Gate G (Gladius and other points on the Prime Material Plane). *** Thank You *** Bring Out Yer Dead! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=486891)
Vathelokai 08-24-05, 05:10 PM	Wow! It's tuesday already? I completely forgot to update my sheet! I guess Jodan is taking the week off.
NiQil 08-24-05, 05:13 PM	Wow! It's tuesday already? I completely forgot to update my sheet! I guess Jodan is taking the week off. Actually, it's Wednesday already. Yer a day further behind than you thought LOL
Mind Rogue 08-24-05, 05:25 PM	Time's up everyone.
TelinArtho 08-24-05, 06:02 PM	@Pitlords - Vakkor is mini-questing for 2 Medium Monstrous Centipedes. Sorry I forgot to send you a PM about it (we are supposed to right?).
nightbanegod 08-24-05, 06:19 PM	on a side note ... due to an impromptu vacation im taking ... i am only lounging around my house till monday so i have all day to work on any fights anyone could send my way... that would make for timely posts of fights depending on speed of tactics received yall... please send some more fights my way so that i might earn those ohh soo precious :P: °'s :P *edit* YAY impromptu pairings are kinda posted unofficially!!! YAY
Pitlords 08-24-05, 07:08 PM	PAIRINGS DONE Credits Changes: +8: KingUther +6: Huan +5: TelinArtho +3: Caterane, Gonbow, Nightbanegod +2: Altaris, Ellorien, GuardianAngel, Luni +1: Xanadu, Cerebus, Maraxus, McJarvis, MichaelNoah, SoulLord, Usurpator, Mindrogue, LLMadCow +0: Malither, Kaigan -2: NiQil, Tellish Credits for Pitlording: +5: Luni +3: Gonbow, GuardianAngel, Nightbanegod, TelinArtho +2: Altaris, Caterane, Ellorien, Kaigan, Mindrogue, Xanadu +1: Cerebus, Huan, KingUther, Malither, Maraxus, McJarvis, MichaelNoah, SoulLord, Usurpator Credits for Questlording: +7: KingUther +3: TelinArtho +2: Huan, Xanadu Credits for Quests: -1: GuardianAngel, KingUther, Luni, Malither -2: Xanadu -3: Tellish Credits for Campaigns: +2: Huan, KingUther, Tellish Credits for Active PCs: -1: KingUther, Mindrogue, TelinArtho -2: Kaigan, Luni, Xanadu, Tellish, NiQil Special Credits: +1: Caterane (admin), LLMadCow (admin), Huan (story), Xanadu (story), Tellish (mapfight) I want to inform you that we might see some progress during this week. The Tales of Gladius thread has been posted, and will from now on be used by Huan and King Uther who are the Scribelords. Remarkable Stories will enter this thread and reserve a place of honor! It will also serve to provide the World thread with material. The World thread might be started during this CoCo week but I can't promise you that. I still need some things to begin but I am sure that will be available soon. This weekend I will also begin to write up the rules for Guilds. Please do not open any threads or accounts for them yet; I will tell you on time. Finally, the discussion about barding has brought up a great idea: allowing the switching of feats on handle animals. I just need to think about wether it should cost credits or not, but I am inclined to make it credit free for bought animals but with a higher price (special training request), and definately 1° per feat for non-bought animals. I'll inform you during the week about it. This addition puts away the boring stereotypical warhorse and we will finally see much more diversity among those commonly used allies. So far, so good. Cat @MeekHead: Training added to last pairings post.
Ellorion Saenelle 08-24-05, 07:14 PM	@ McJarvis: tactics sent
Altaris13 08-24-05, 07:52 PM	@NiQil: prepare to be crushed! :b: :fight!: :b: Of course, Aeryn would accept surrender too... You know, save yourself some humiliation. :D
Ellorion Saenelle 08-24-05, 08:21 PM	@mind rogue, tactics received @luni, tactics received @laughing_dragon, waiting for tactics @sloisel, waiting for tactics
NiQil 08-24-05, 08:32 PM	@NiQil: prepare to be crushed! :b: :fight!: :b: Of course, Aeryn would accept surrender too... You know, save yourself some humiliation. :D Heh...looks like the EHTC is gonna get a piece of Kronos after all. May the best druid win. Maybe I should petition to have your cohort, Nightbanegod, barred from the fight so that I get a fair shake LOL j/k. I know you'll be fair, Night....besides....if I win, then you have another reason to take revenge LOL
NiQil 08-24-05, 08:34 PM	@Nightbanegod Tactics for Methos sent via PM Tactics for Kronos sent via PM @Maraxus Tactics for Caspian sent via PM @Gonbow Tactics forthcoming pending conference with partner.
Mind Rogue 08-24-05, 08:36 PM	If anyone's sent tactics to me already, you'll need to resend them, since I somehow filled up my in box (which has now been freshly cleaned out). Oh, and TelinArtho, tactics sent (I see Ellorien's already recieved 'em)
Luni 08-24-05, 08:38 PM	@Ellorion: Tactics and add-on are sent. Sorry about the 2 messages. @Michael Noah: Talaris tactics will be sent tomorrow morning.
Ellorion Saenelle 08-24-05, 08:53 PM	@luni, both tactics received @laughing_dragon, tactix received
Laughing_Dragon 08-24-05, 08:53 PM	@laughing_dragon, waiting for tactics @sloisel, waiting for tacticsTactics ker-sent.
Gonbow 08-24-05, 09:01 PM	@Pitlords I have 4 active characters (Nicolae, Santos, Lortavos and Yasha), so I only get 1 credit this week, not 3. @SoulLord Tactics for Santos sent. @Malither Tactics for Yasha sent. @Luni Tactics for Lortavos sent.
TelinArtho 08-24-05, 09:26 PM	@MindRogue - tactics received.
Mind Rogue 08-24-05, 09:39 PM	@Xanandu and TheMagister Tactics Recieved
nightbanegod 08-24-05, 10:00 PM	Heh...looks like the EHTC is gonna get a piece of Kronos after all. May the best druid win. Maybe I should petition to have your cohort, Nightbanegod, barred from the fight so that I get a fair shake LOL j/k. I know you'll be fair, Night....besides....if I win, then you have another reason to take revenge LOL ILL HAVE YOU KNOW I *resemble* THAT COMMENT :D ohh and NIQIL, i will let you know how revenge on your most recent defeat at the hands of yoriko feels when i actually defeat her this week
Maraxus 08-24-05, 10:17 PM	@Xanandu and TheMagister Tactics Recieved Mind Rogue: Tactics for Mythos send, too. The battle can begin? ;) Tactics for Zassl ... Hey, who has put a sorcerer (level 3 - Thats the weakest level) and a bard together in a 2 vs. 2??? Well, our opponents will be overconfident and we will come up with a tactic and everybody sais: "Oh, we shall name a religion after that tactic!" and we will win. ... But that will take a little more time. :)
xanadu 08-24-05, 10:22 PM	Sunwolf, you can check out your opponents here (http://boards1.wizards.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=7061832) I equipped them with the treasure of a single ECL 6 NPC and divided it more or less equally between his 3 opponents. If this is incorrect, someone please tell me.
Mind Rogue 08-24-05, 10:28 PM	ILL HAVE YOU KNOW I *resemble* THAT COMMENT :D ohh and NIQIL, i will let you know how revenge on your most recent defeat at the hands of yoriko feels when i actually defeat her this week :rofl: So... you think that Dalamar can cut through Victor and then still make it on to Yoriko, and still win? Your spell selection leaves me shaking in my boots. Actually, I give even odds that you take down Victor before I'm finished with you and that Yoriko sweeps.
Faroth 08-24-05, 10:34 PM	@McJarvis: Tactics sent for Lothan's fight. It's going to be tough =/
NiQil 08-24-05, 10:51 PM	@ Dr. Funk Your PM box is full. Clear it out so that we can continue our discussion.
LongArcher 08-24-05, 10:51 PM	@Kaigan: My tactics have been sent both e-mail and PM. Just making sure. ;)
Snommelp 08-24-05, 11:08 PM	Moved into my dorm room, got the computer up and running. Tactics will be sent as soon as I go see who I'm fighting.
Ellorion Saenelle 08-24-05, 11:18 PM	Shakira Vs Kregor up on #279 sorry no link Faroth I think you will have me beat.
Snommelp 08-24-05, 11:28 PM	Tactics for Grik sent. Collaboration for Sam begun.
nightbanegod 08-24-05, 11:35 PM	:rofl: So... you think that Dalamar can cut through Victor and then still make it on to Yoriko, and still win? Your spell selection leaves me shaking in my boots. Actually, I give even odds that you take down Victor before I'm finished with you and that Yoriko sweeps. OOOOOO .... i see that your clearly exuding confidence... well like my tactics said at the begining " i believe this is going to be a large game of cat and mouse, well at the very least i think i can play cat and mouse better than both of you put together ..and hey wether you win or lose .. you lvl so its like a win/win situation but i could use at least one winners share to lvl off this fight i think *edit* @ NIQIL & SNOMMELP tactics for methos and grik received and i will run the fight tomarrow mourning
Gonbow 08-24-05, 11:53 PM	Well, since everyone is exuding confidence, I might as well make my predictions for my fights: Farfinar vrs Santos: Santos grapple-fu's Farfinar to death or Farfinar explodes Santos' head. 75-25% in favor of Farfinar. Yasha vrs Milo: Enlarged spiked chain + invisible fast movement = Bad news for an archer. 80-20% in favor of Yasha Lortavos vrs a hundred and one psychic fighters: EEEEP, they are better at EVERYTHING than I am! 1-99% in favor of horde of psychic warriors.
nightbanegod 08-25-05, 12:30 AM	Well, since everyone is exuding confidence, I might as well make my predictions for my fights: Farfinar vrs Santos: Santos grapple-fu's Farfinar to death or Farfinar explodes Santos' head. 75-25% in favor of Farfinar. Yasha vrs Milo: Enlarged spiked chain + invisible fast movement = Bad news for an archer. 80-20% in favor of Yasha Lortavos vrs a hundred and one psychic fighters: EEEEP, they are better at EVERYTHING than I am! 1-99% in favor of horde of psychic warriors. wow i checked out that horde of psychic warriors and you have my best wishes ... but i bet WAR could take them and on the notes of odds I have this to say... it would go hand in hand with the gladious blackmarket if we introduced the gladious BOOKIE system where we could figure odds of a person winning based on their power lvl so as to have a solid comparison between characters and other characters could bet an amount of gold on a person winning!! ... purely for sport ... like watching dog races or something ... you know *ROOSTER* fights
Luni 08-25-05, 01:13 AM	rShakira wins +954gp(900win+54profession) +900xp, using 1 arrow, breaking it. Kregor loses +300gp, +300xp, using up nothing. This is wrong. You forgot my exp penalty for bringing in my mount. It should be Shakari 900-25%=675 xp and 675 +54 gp=729 Kregor gets 300+25%=375 gp/xp Also, Zyazz should also be making reflex saves, though the result would most likely be the same. Link is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7061317&postcount=279)
Ellorion Saenelle 08-25-05, 01:18 AM	Actually as I was writing the story, I realized what I did wrong with Zyazz and the entanglement, and I will fix it. I did not know about the xp. thing, thanks for telling me.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-25-05, 01:33 AM	If anyone needs to lighten the load by tossing me a fight or two, i have time this week for one (maybe two). -ToK
Luni 08-25-05, 03:29 AM	Ch'ch'ili vs Sir Valkin is up here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7064016&postcount=281) I think everything is correct. If not, let me know. @Begferdeth: How do you get such a high energy ray? Isn't it 1d6+1 (ML 1) + 1d6+1 (Wild Surge) + 2d6 Psionic Shot = 4d6+2?
sloisel 08-25-05, 07:53 AM	First Horseman (Nightbanegod) vs Son of Buttmunch (Sloisel): Usurpator tactics sent via email Gang Lion (Sloisel) vs Alexi Wood (Mind Rogue): Ellorien tactics sent via email
Faroth 08-25-05, 08:16 AM	Faroth I think you will have me beat. Don't think so, your character have twice my hp.. is scary :S I thinks it's gonna be a nice battle ;)
waywreth 08-25-05, 08:36 AM	Tactics for Amion sent to Maraxus.
Delusional Illusion 08-25-05, 08:45 AM	Tactics for Wlandra sent to Cerebus13 via email.
michael_noah 08-25-05, 08:46 AM	Did we every decide if there is a maximum number of spells that can be on a scroll? Are we using the generally accepted wisdom that it is 6?
Maraxus 08-25-05, 08:55 AM	Okay, both tactics received - looking good -, will start to run the fight this evening. :)
waywreth 08-25-05, 09:36 AM	Okay, both tactics received - looking good -, will start to run the fight this evening. :) Updated tactics for Amion sent - I forgot something important in the first set.
TelinArtho 08-25-05, 10:02 AM	I think I've got all of the tactics for the three way - Victor, Dalamar and Yoriko (and update). I'll be writing up my tactics soon. /d
TelinArtho 08-25-05, 10:12 AM	@Luni - looks good to me - though there are problems with distance in the round that Ch'ch'ili used the grease stone according to the locations you have listed. That being said, since I was charging, its evident that I would've been in range anyway. The only other thing I see is that you put the wrong number for Valkin's will save (makes it look like I beat the save.)
Luni 08-25-05, 10:42 AM	@Michael Noah: Tactics Sent, Question Answered. @Telin: Fixed the error with the wrong number in the will save. Yeah, not much charging warhorses can do about grease. I'll check the location.
Huan 08-25-05, 10:48 AM	Did we every decide if there is a maximum number of spells that can be on a scroll? Are we using the generally accepted wisdom that it is 6? I believe so, yes.
TelinArtho 08-25-05, 11:14 AM	@Gonbow - tactics sent for Daeren via PM @GuardianAngel - tactics sent for Kraegin via PM. @Nightbanegod - weren't you going to open up a thread for the miniquest?
Altaris13 08-25-05, 11:15 AM	@nightbane - tactics emailed for Aeryn vs Kronos.
Gonbow 08-25-05, 11:28 AM	@TelinArtho Tactics recieved.
Altaris13 08-25-05, 11:56 AM	@Kaigan: tactics emailed for Mini vs Archie. @Kaigan & Longarcher: Archie has been reported to prison the many errors on his sheet. Violations. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7066576&postcount=131) Also, please note that Archie has exceeded his "light weight" and is therefore encumbured.
Laughing_Dragon 08-25-05, 12:06 PM	@Ellorion Saenelle It doesn't make much of a diferance but Biofeedback gives Kregor 2/- DR. Thus during Round 5 Shakira moves to [7,4], gets LoS on Kregor and shoots.(20! auto hit, missed crit, 11 damage) and puts the arrow right into Kregor's chest. Should have a -2 in damage. Again in Round 6 Shakira fires at Kregor again (14+6=20 AC 11{entangled} 7 damage) Another -2 to damage, that leaves Kregor able to make another break out attempt. Besides the fact that all characters with autohypnosis can make a check (dc20) upon reaching 0 HP to be able to act normally. Continuing biofeedback puts Kregor at 0 hp on Round 7 which leaves Kregor able to make an autohypnosis check (dc20) upon reaching 0 HP to be able to act normally.
Ellorion Saenelle 08-25-05, 12:58 PM	the dr was countered with shakari's favored enemy bonus. I will redo the part with the autohypnosis though.
nightbanegod 08-25-05, 12:58 PM	@tellinArtho your thread is up Creepy Crawlies
Laughing_Dragon 08-25-05, 01:21 PM	Oh well, didn't notice that bit. Never mind me ^^
Cerebus13 08-25-05, 02:32 PM	@Caterane Will the Xill that Guts is fighting this week have an equipment list? (I think he should since they talk about swords in the entry...) Also, Xills possess an ability called "Planewalk" that allows them to cross to the Ethereal Plane. Do Xills act like Ghosts when it comes to the Ethereal Plane? (like they cannot interact physically unless they manifest, etc etc...) A bit confused on how this ability actually works :P.
Gonbow 08-25-05, 02:40 PM	@Caterane Will the Xill that Guts is fighting this week have an equipment list? (I think he should since they talk about swords in the entry...) Also, Xills possess an ability called "Planewalk" that allows them to cross to the Ethereal Plane. Do Xills act like Ghosts when it comes to the Ethereal Plane? (like they cannot interact physically unless they manifest, etc etc...) A bit confused on how this ability actually works :P. Everything on the ethereal plane acts identically. It can see what is going on the prime plane (at a penalty) but cannot interact with it. The prime plane cannot see it without spells, nor interact with it without force spells. Any exceptions to these rules are due to a half-time status (something flickering back and forth continuously, which occurs, occasionally).
Ellorion Saenelle 08-25-05, 04:00 PM	Alexi Wood vs Gang Lion is done. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7067644&postcount=282
TelinArtho 08-25-05, 04:04 PM	@Ellorian - don't forget to link the fight... My 3 character fight is up. I know there's going to be a fair amount of discussion about it, but bear in mind that no one's tactics were solid against another player except for Dalamar's. Anyway: Yoriko vs Dalamar vs Victor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7068562)
Pittbull 08-25-05, 04:18 PM	@Huan: I sent you two PMs for Hagrid's tactic vs the FIVE SHADOWS!
TelinArtho 08-25-05, 04:20 PM	@Xanadu - received tactics for Xyanthraxia.
Usurpator 08-25-05, 04:35 PM	@Nightbanegod: @Sloisel: received both your tactics, will start the Son of Buttmunch vs. the First Horseman battle ASAP. @Cerebus: send my tactics for Maeril vs. Wlandra via e-mail
nightbanegod 08-25-05, 04:39 PM	@Ellorian - don't forget to link the fight... My 3 character fight is up. I know there's going to be a fair amount of discussion about it, but bear in mind that no one's tactics were solid against another player except for Dalamar's. Anyway: Yoriko vs Dalamar vs Victor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7068562) a couple of things ... i love how well dalamar did however theres a problem with the summon swarm and the shield spells... the shield spell will last 30 rounds since if you look at my character sheet again its a CL 3 spell and swarms do not roll attack rolls ... they deal automatic damage regardless of AC look under swarms here (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/MonstersS.rtf) im going to have to look over it again but i think thats the most obvious of errors... *edit* and are you sure that in round 10 the fiendish wolf attacks Dalamar? and in round 11 when the wolf takes an AoO on victor and succuessfully hits... wheres his free trip attempt to put victor back on the ground? i think that if the summon issue is cleared up i might be able to finish up this fight a few rounds sooner avoiding having to use those last few scrolls of magic missle... they are trivial but if victor dies from the summons making contact and or bleeding and yoriko gets damaged by the swarm to begin with and has to cope with bleeding then i scorching ray her instead i think i will wrap this fight up alot sooner *edit x2* @mind eogue i do believe you owe me a poblic apology :surrender and perhaps some respect for SWEEPING the board? and on that note ... the :king: has left the arena ...!!! *edit x3* i just wanted to say how totally STOKED i am about Dalamar SMOKIN both of yall but ... *ahem* " Challenging the E.H.T.C. or myself will inevitably lead to your own destruction." sayeth Dalamar as he casually strolls from the arena without a scratch on himself
TelinArtho 08-25-05, 04:53 PM	Well, I knew I was doing the swarm wrong - it just seemed too useless... Anyway, I'll go back and edit it - it definitely makes a big difference...
Mind Rogue 08-25-05, 05:13 PM	Mythos vs Rakkar is up. Xanandu was kind enough to point out after the fact that there is indeed no such thing as a potion of expeditious retreat, but since Mythos never moved far enough for it to matter, I'll let it stand. @ Ellorian In round 7, why didn't Alexi trip Gang Lion like his tactics explicitely stated? The 15 was enough to hit his touch AC, even with Pro:Chaos.
Ellorion Saenelle 08-25-05, 05:16 PM	i'll double check it, sorry.
Maraxus 08-25-05, 05:33 PM	No potion of expeditius retreat? Then I never bought it? ;) Never mind, that one was a special potion of "danm, learn that there are no personal-spell-potions in the official rules." Hey, when I read the beginning of the fight: Mythos rolls: [4], [1!], [2], [5] ... I really thought: What somber poweres has this commoner allied with? But then a 19 and a 17 and lucky 9 with 2d6. :) Luck is mercurial. :)
Mind Rogue 08-25-05, 05:34 PM	@ TelinArtho Some comments on the fight Round 6 If Yoriko is this badly wounded, she should probably have used her healing potion rather than attacking. Round 8 Placing a swarm so that it occupies someone elses square is causing them harm, therefor it is an attack, which negates invisibility. If he cast it nearby, then the swarm moved on top of me, it would not be. This is similar to the Wall of Fire example in the FAQ (or at least, I think that's where it is). Also, swarms don't make attack rolls. They automatically deal damage. Round 9 Again, swarms don't need to attack. Round 15 Where is Dalamar getting his +4 to resist being tripped from; he should have a -2 penalty. Also, Yoriko's tactics addendum said to grapple rather than trip if Victor can no longer manifest powers (which he can't seeing as he's dead). Ditto in round 16. However, the biggest change happens early with the summoning of the swarm into an occupied square, which does constitute an attack, breaking invisibility and changing the match drastically.
Mind Rogue 08-25-05, 05:46 PM	@ Maraxus It's actually a 9 on 2d8. You use a longbow. @ Ellorian Alexi has improved trip. This grants him a +4 bonus on trip attacks, which makes the failed attempt a success, plus it grants him a second attack to replace the one he spent to trip.
sloisel 08-25-05, 05:52 PM	@ Ellorian Alexi has improved trip. This grants him a +4 bonus on trip attacks, which makes the failed attempt a success, plus it grants him a second attack to replace the one he spent to trip. The point is moot because I can actually 5' step after getting up: "If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action." http://d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm
Ellorion Saenelle 08-25-05, 06:08 PM	if you find any other mistakes, PM to me because I have to go for now.
King Uther 08-25-05, 06:08 PM	@ Mindrogue Rakkar's mount should have gotten an AoO, as well as an attack. Also, he has to get around the mount to CDG or wait until Rakkar bleeds to death. In theory, he could try to shoot at the mount or melee, miss enough times, and then fall unconscious due to drow poison in round twelve and get killed by the horse.
TelinArtho 08-25-05, 06:11 PM	I've fixed the fight to include the changes for the swarm. @MindRogue - since his tactics specifically say to not become visible from the casting of swarms and summon monster, I think your point is rather moot - he'd simply summon the swarms nearby. I've already made the changes for the swarms doing direct damage rather than attacking. As to Dalamar's Opposed roll for trip - check the rules on trip: If your attack succeeds, make a Strength check opposed by the defender’s Dexterity or Strength check (whichever ability score has the higher modifier) He's just using his dex modifier instead of his strength modifier. I actually thought I didn't see any comments for healing, but now that I've gone back to take another look - they are there. For the future, you should probably specify what potion to use (as you have both light and moderate), but considering how wounded you are, I'll go with moderate. In the future - definitely specify.
nightbanegod 08-25-05, 06:49 PM	@TellinArtho so what do you think of bat swarms now? they auto hit for 1d6, can nauseate, and make people bleed... i love em just one last thing ... i dont think it really matters since its only something even more in my favor but in round 12 that wolf that hit yoriko gets a trip attempt and technically when victor is in the -1 to -9 ... unless he stabilized and i didnt see it .. he is still bleeding from the bats and losing 2 hp a round and lastly ... any of Yorikos attacks against me while im invisible have a 50% chance of missing since ... im invisible but in any event ... ALL HAIL THE :king: sorry i dont mean to gloat but i never dreamed he would have been this successful even though i did throw down a FFA gauntlet challenge back in the day ... and now ... i shall level up my precious :mage:
Laughing_Dragon 08-25-05, 06:59 PM	#1 I'd like to note Victor uses cold energy powers in ALL cases except those where he's fireing a ray against a metal armor person with low reflex. Cold energy is Fort after all and can't be negated by evasion normally. #2 Victor can only cast one energy missle a fight if you look at the PP it's 5+1 not 6 #3 Victor starts with his crossbow in hand and loaded. He doesn't move to mainfest so putting it away = stupid. These are MAJOR issues. They would change the fight compleatly. I wanted Victor to fire the energy missile and other powers at the Monk cause he's dangerous in Melee and knocking him down first is important. The crossbow would technically do against the Mage (protection from arrows/shield not withstanding) Lastly the +1 is to go for a disable power, though yes I should have noted that.
nightbanegod 08-25-05, 07:05 PM	actually the crossbow would not work against me since i wasnt even visible untill you were dead... and in the event the summons didnt kill you .. you were a smoldering husk when i became visible from the scorching ray... so wether you have your crossbow in hand or not its a moot point... your cinders or dog chow
Laughing_Dragon 08-25-05, 07:12 PM	Not necesarily. The fight outcome may be slightly different thanks to the fight guy's little mess up. You won't know until the fight is redone a bit. Anyway you got the good hand you dun want the fight to be redone cause it ended in your favor. Could end up with Victor winning, you don't know yet things got messed up.
Laughing_Dragon 08-25-05, 07:16 PM	Nya! Damnit, Victor SUCKS in melee. He never melee's unless he has run out of bolts. He retreets if he's caught in melee. Period. It's in his basic tactics. hit and run does that mean drop the crossbow and try and stab for a MAX of 2 dmg? hell no, it means RUN then fire at range.
King Uther 08-25-05, 07:20 PM	Dalamar better watch his back before the Avatar of life notices him. He may not have an immortal soul, but a being powerful enough to defeat two at once must be more than ordinary...
nightbanegod 08-25-05, 07:44 PM	Dalamar better watch his back before the Avatar of life notices him. He may not have an immortal soul, but a being powerful enough to defeat two at once must be more than ordinary... "Avatar of life ehh? i have yet to encounter such a creature. Should he venture my way, i would indeed show him that i am far from ordinary" Sayeth Dalamar, while he absentmindedly toys with a new summoned lemure, the last one didnt fair so well due to the orc.
Mind Rogue 08-25-05, 07:54 PM	#1 I'd like to note Victor uses cold energy powers in ALL cases except those where he's fireing a ray against a metal armor person with low reflex. Cold energy is Fort after all and can't be negated by evasion normally. #2 Victor can only cast one energy missle a fight if you look at the PP it's 5+1 not 6 #3 Victor starts with his crossbow in hand and loaded. He doesn't move to mainfest so putting it away = stupid. These are MAJOR issues. They would change the fight compleatly. I wanted Victor to fire the energy missile and other powers at the Monk cause he's dangerous in Melee and knocking him down first is important. The crossbow would technically do against the Mage (protection from arrows/shield not withstanding) Lastly the +1 is to go for a disable power, though yes I should have noted that. So Yoriko should actually take half damage from the energy missile (since her fort is just as good as her reflex), and then you have to hit with a 2d6 energy ray, which could be a feat. Barring those two working, I'm wondering why you want to finish by shooting bolts at somebody with Deflect Arrows. And please, if he does hit with that energy ray, let me drink a potion. If he doesn't, then I think I'll probably live a little longer against Dalamar.
Laughing_Dragon 08-25-05, 08:01 PM	He takes no damage because of evasion, half is sometimes better then none. And fireing arrows at a deflect arrows is fine he can't deflect them all. What is it, a 20 DC reflex, he can't save against it all. Anyway I think the rules and such should be followed during the fight, if for no other reason then to make the fight legitly yours.
Luni 08-25-05, 08:07 PM	He takes no damage because of evasion, half is sometimes better then none. And fireing arrows at a deflect arrows is fine he can't deflect them all. What is it, a 20 DC reflex, he can't save against it all. Anyway I think the rules and such should be followed during the fight, if for no other reason then to make the fight legitly yours. Deflect Arrows Benefit You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flatfooted. Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected. No save needed for Deflect arrows.
Mind Rogue 08-25-05, 08:08 PM	He takes no damage because of evasion, half is sometimes better then none. And fireing arrows at a deflect arrows is fine he can't deflect them all. What is it, a 20 DC reflex, he can't save against it all. Anyway I think the rules and such should be followed during the fight, if for no other reason then to make the fight legitly yours. It's my own character who's on the recieving end; but if he said to make it a cold one, that turns the save to fort, negating evasion. As for deflect arrows, if you'll look at the feat, the reflex save has been removed during the upgrade to 3.5, so without rapid shot and rapid reload, or some way of surprising Yoriko, you'll never hit with the crossbow. Finally, Yoriko is a she.
Laughing_Dragon 08-25-05, 08:14 PM	My bad. Still would be a run away type deal, melee is pointless whne your to hit is -1 or 0.
Sunwolf 08-25-05, 08:15 PM	@xanadu Tactics for Brilf sent by PM
Maraxus 08-25-05, 08:34 PM	And again I have a bad feeling, about posting my fight for the week: Amion Dar'ath vs Caspian (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7070951) But NiQil, will understand, last week he was the one, who only won by massive luck. This has got to be a sign: Divine forces were with Amion. Why? Maybe his faith was purer (Clr3 vs Clr2/Fig1), maybe his luck domain had a side effect. :) Any comments/concerns?
nightbanegod 08-25-05, 08:48 PM	My bad. Still would be a run away type deal, melee is pointless whne your to hit is -1 or 0. last time i checked... Yoriko wasnt focusing on you very much and if you think you can out run my base land speed of 60 ft to your 30 ft ... please enlighten me as to how you plan on accomplishing this. not to mention all my attacks are ranged attacks and if i switch to magic missles they are unerringly hitting you. plus with true strike my ranged touch attack is +25 .... your rebuttle?
TheMagister 08-25-05, 08:55 PM	And again I have a bad feeling, about posting my fight for the week: Amion Dar'ath vs Caspian (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7070951#post7070951) But NiQil, will understand, last week he was the one, who only won by massive luck. This has got to be a sign: Divine forces were with Amion. Why? Maybe his faith was purer (Clr3 vs Clr2/Fig1), maybe his luck domain had a side effect. :) Any comments/concerns? Thought that using a wand in a threatened area provoked AoO? Edit: Nevermind. Looked it up myself. Using a wand of clw does not provoke AoO per PHB pg. 142. TM
NiQil 08-25-05, 09:00 PM	And again I have a bad feeling, about posting my fight for the week: Amion Dar'ath vs Caspian (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7070951#post7070951) But NiQil, will understand, last week he was the one, who only won by massive luck. This has got to be a sign: Divine forces were with Amion. Why? Maybe his faith was purer (Clr3 vs Clr2/Fig1), maybe his luck domain had a side effect. :) Any comments/concerns? One issue.... Round 5: Caspian does not really believe the spiritual weapon is a thread but nevertheless 5ft steps and shoots his opponent: 12+7=19 vs DC 19+4(cover) but the arrow misses. Amion casts another spiritual weapon and beginns to close the distance while drawing his Morninstar. The two flying swords attack: Sworty1 (10)+5=15 vs DC 23 miss, Sworty2 18+5=23 hits for (1)+1=2 damage. The ordiance demand more blood at those punny scratchs. Caspian 23/25 (-23, -3), Shield of faith (21), Force Screen (12), Divine Favor (13) Amion 22/26 (-13, 11) Spiritual weapon @(-22, -3) (7), Spiritual weapon @(-22, -2) (8) Since Spiritual Weapon attacks as a spell, rather than a weapon, it cannot threaten, as far as I know. Which also means that it cannot take AoO. Which means there should be no reason for me to not use the tactic I had stated, which was to move out 30 feet toward the center each turn once buffing was done, or move towards my opponent if LOS was established. So I am wondering why I did not move 30 ft in this round to negate his cover. By doing this, and taking the cover bonus away, this attack hits, and could change the match.
Laughing_Dragon 08-25-05, 09:05 PM	Umm... It's not the character's tactic to stay in melee range. Doesn't matter that he would have lost from spells. If he can't hit with the crossbow so if he knows he can't hit with the dagger and it's time to run away and fast.
Maraxus 08-25-05, 09:15 PM	One issue.... (...) Since Spiritual Weapon attacks as a spell, rather than a weapon, it cannot threaten, as far as I know. Which also means that it cannot take AoO. Which means there should be no reason for me to not use the tactic I had stated, which was to move out 30 feet toward the center each turn once buffing was done, or move towards my opponent if LOS was established. So I am wondering why I did not move 30 ft in this round to negate his cover. By doing this, and taking the cover bonus away, this attack hits, and could change the match. Hm, good question whether Spiritual Weapons get AoOs. However the next spot from whitch you had free firering-line was 45ft away, I choosed that this was the best to do.
Maraxus 08-25-05, 09:18 PM	This should have been an edit - sorry.
NiQil 08-25-05, 09:32 PM	Hm, good question whether Spiritual Weapons get AoOs. However the next spot from whitch you had free firering-line was 45ft away, I choosed that this was the best to do. After going back through the fight, I see that I should have also moved in rounds 3 and 4, per my tactics. I should not have been that corner at that point. Round 3 would have been 30 feet towards center, and round 4, depending on spot and listen and LOS, would either see me go closer to center with a readied action, or closer to my opponent with a readied action. I did specify this movement in my tactics. This movement should have happened, as it may very well have allowed me to negate any cover he might have had, and might have also prevented the casting of the spells at all, due to my tactic of readying an action starting round 4 to shoot upon LOS. From my tactics: In round one, cast Shield Of Faith on myself . In round two, tap tattoo of Force screen . In round three, cast Divine Favor on myself and move towards center. If buffing is interrupted for any reason, continue ASAP (using 5 ft steps to avoid AoO if necessary) In successive rounds, continue to move towards center, readying an action to shoot on sight. If I hear or see him or think I hear or see him, advance towards that location, readying an action to fire on LOS every turn. The goal is to do what I can to disrupt any spellcasting.
xanadu 08-25-05, 10:13 PM	Mind Rogue: Fight looks good but a few things still need to be done. RakkaR's 2nd attack in round 13 should hit because he gets two +1s he normally wouldn't (mounted and point blank shot). Also, RakkaR is bleeding but not dead. You to roll a stay in saddle check and if RakkaR is still alive the mount defends him via defend trick.
Maraxus 08-25-05, 10:13 PM	Okay, I could change it, but: That does not make sense! You allready know where your opponent is. If you leave your cover, in round 3 after the casting, nothing will change except for the fact that Amion won't waste his 3rd round. The same in the next round. you could have closed on your enemy 30ft, but the only obvious effect of this would be, that you have less time to fire on him, freely. xanadu: "Mounted" is in fact th "higher ground" bonus - that only aplies to melee attacks.
Gonbow 08-25-05, 10:14 PM	"What, defeating two individuals at once is all it takes to attract the attention of an Avatar? Hmm. I must have missed it when I defeated those two oafs a month and a half ago." Santos says thoughtfully, shrugging off the percularity. "Two at once? Is that the best you can lay claim to!?" Yasha snorts in disgust, "Three foes were aligned against me in my very first match here, one of them a spell-slinger no less. They tasted my steel and heard naught but the wind of their souls afterwards." After a moment, "And after those two oafs, who have you prevailed over, exactly? A insect? Perhaps your lastname should be bugsquisher." Santos of course, is much too poised to be drawn into pity bickering, he serenely wanders out of the waiting room where fighters gather.
King Uther 08-25-05, 10:14 PM	@ Xanadu Tactics for Kota sent via PM. @ Luni, Huan Tactics draft is done. Huan's box is full, so I can't PM them to him for confirmation.
King Uther 08-25-05, 10:15 PM	Balbanes formally challenges Yasha for her big mouth.
Gonbow 08-25-05, 10:18 PM	"A worthy foe, or so I've heard." Yasha smiles rather cruelly, "Next week, we shall see if my steel can find your holy flesh, yes." Challenge accepted! Sweet. First challenge ^_^
NiQil 08-25-05, 10:20 PM	Okay, I could change it, but: That does not make sense! You allready know where your opponent is. If you leave your cover, in round 3 after the casting, nothing will change except for the fact that Amion won't waste his 3rd round. The same in the next round. you could have closed on your enemy 30ft, but the only obvious effect of this would be, that you have less time to fire on him, freely. I think it makes a great deal of sense. Again, by getting me out in the open, it helps give me the chance to negate cover, and since I was advancing with readied actions, it gives me the possibility of having those disrupt his spells. By moving out in round 3, I would have established LOS out in the open instead of from the corner. Since I have initiative, in round 4, I would attack before he can move, which means I can move another 30 feet closer and still strike, using that movement to negate any cover issues. It also gives me the possibility that, since damage would be taken in round 4, his first spiritual weapon might not make it through the concentration check. In round 5, I would be even closer, meaning either the second spiritual weapon does not get cast, or I can advance and either fire again from range or (depending on movement at that point) get into melee quicker, while again hopefully forcing a concentration check if he chooses to cast. Which then, in turn, gives me that many more rounds before my buffs wear off in melee. This is the reason I stated in my tactics to keep advancing once I was buffed, but to fire as I go. Even if this causes the spiritual weapon to be cast in round 3 instead of 4, this still gets me out in the open to negate any cover and get to melee quicker, while at the same time giving me the ability to try and disrupt spellcasting.
Maraxus 08-25-05, 10:32 PM	Arg, now you want to disrupt spellcasting? I thought this was finished, since spiritual weapon is no concentration spell and you did not want to ready on spellcasting but on line of sight. But for the advancing movement, okay, I will change this, it is only a bit of moving...
NiQil 08-25-05, 10:40 PM	Arg, now you want to disrupt spellcasting? I thought this was finished, since spiritual weapon is no concentration spell and you did not want to ready on spellcasting but on line of sight. But for the advancing movement, okay, I will change this, it is only a bit of moving... I am not readying on spellcasting. I am still readying on line of sight. I was referring to the intent of my tactics. You are correct in that concentration checks would have no bearing here, as these are standard action casting times. I am just stating the reasoning behind my tactics, since at that time I had no idea what spells might get thrown at me. If my previous post conveyed this poorly, my apologies (I reread it and I can see how you might have taken it to mean as you did). I am still readying on LOS. But by doing that, it helps me break up that cover, which means that attack in round 5 should hit, and there may be less/more attacks that need to be added in/taken out as a result of me closing quicker.
TelinArtho 08-25-05, 11:10 PM	@Pitlords and others: GuardianAngel has withdrawn from CoCO. He's got 2 fights - the one below and Kraegin's match. I am willing to take the one below - and I hope someone will pick up Kraegin's match. Alac (Pauper) vs Shan (Shaken) vs Juntar (KerlanRayne): GuardianAngel Also to the gladiators of my 1v1v1 fight - I will re-review all of the comments thus far before I post the latest revision. It won't be until tomorrow before noon eastern time, so be patient.
Mind Rogue 08-25-05, 11:22 PM	Mind Rogue: Fight looks good but a few things still need to be done. RakkaR's 2nd attack in round 13 should hit because he gets two +1s he normally wouldn't (mounted and point blank shot). Also, RakkaR is bleeding but not dead. You to roll a stay in saddle check and if RakkaR is still alive the mount defends him via defend trick. I'm sorry, but Vaguery has the defend trick? The stat block appears to neglect saying anything about any tricks or purposes that Vaguery has been trained with. Furthermore, if an animal can beat off a threat (meaning if Mythos retreats), it will usually stop attacking it (meaning it will leave Mythos alone if he stops shooting and he backs up). Furthermore, the +1 bonus on attack rolls for being mounted only applies on melee attacks.
Maraxus 08-25-05, 11:48 PM	Okay, fight rerun. Through Caspian's tactic, Amion got hit in round 5 for good damage. However this also meant, that Caspian had two shooting-turns less. I keept thematic rolls, meaning that I kept the melee attacks for the melee attacks, allthrough they happen 2 rounds earlier now.
NiQil 08-26-05, 12:07 AM	Okay, fight rerun. Through Caspian's tactic, Amion got hit in round 5 for good damage. However this also meant, that Caspian had two shooting-turns less. I keept thematic rolls, meaning that I kept the melee attacks for the melee attacks, allthrough they happen 2 rounds earlier now. Alright...one last thing from the rerun... Round 5: Caspian does not really believe the spiritual weapon is a thread and shoots his opponent: (12)+7=19 vs DC 19 hit for (8)+4=12 damage. Then he drops his bow and takes his battleaxe. Amion charces and uses his divine might: (13)+7=20 The attack is good but not good enough. The flying weapons allready attack Caspian: Swort1: (18)+5=23 hits for (6)+1=7 damage. Swort2: (2)+5=7 miss, and finally some blood flows. Caspian 16/25 (-14, 4), Shield of faith (21), Force Screen (12), Divine Favor (13) Amion 10/26 (-13, 5) Spiritual weapon @(-13, 4) (6), Spiritual weapon @(-13, 4) (7) Round 6: Caspian smacks with his weapon: 11+7=18 vs DC 19. Amion arm hurts as he parries the attack but no damage is done. Caspian draws his cure wand. A spiritual weapon disapears. Amion attacks with divine might: 20+5=25 crit confirm 3+5=8, normal hit for (1)+4=5 The second longsword moves attacks, too: (4)+5=9 but again Caspian dodges. Caspian 11/25 (-14, 4), Shield of faith (21), Force Screen (12), Divine Favor (13) Amion 10/26 (-13, 5) Spiritual weapon @(,) (ended), Spiritual weapon @(-13, 4) (7) Emphasis mine. Since Amion charged in round 5, in round 6, his AC would only be a 17, not a 19, meaning that my attack in round 6 would hit, and this may very well change the outcome. Edit: In fact, I am all but positive that it will definitely change the outcome. The minimum damage I can do with this hit is 4, which will leave Amion with 6 HP until Round 9, at which point I hit for 8 damage, incapacitating him.
King Uther 08-26-05, 12:26 AM	@Luni Tactics for Dameon and Balbanes sent via PM. Possibly twice.
Luni 08-26-05, 01:07 AM	I got them King Uther. I only got 1 copy though. :D
Snommelp 08-26-05, 01:12 AM	@ NIQIL & SNOMMELP tactics for methos and grik received and i will run the fight tomarrow mourning I don't mean to nag, but I'm rather anxious to see how well my newest puppet fares.
NiQil 08-26-05, 01:16 AM	I don't mean to nag, but I'm rather anxious to see how well my newest puppet fares. LOL I have the feeling that this one is gonna degenerate into a melee mess very quickly, based on the two builds LOL. I also find it amusing that last week we were partners, and this week the dice gods have seen fit to pit us against each other not only in a 1v1, but also in a team fight. Speaking of which... @Gonbow Tactics are written, just waiting for final approval from Dr. Funk to send them. Should have them in sometime Friday afternoon I would imagine.
xanadu 08-26-05, 02:26 AM	@ all Brilf vs the mephit mob is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7061832). The Mephits best chances were neutralized because of Brilf's mon abilities. Still it was a complicated fight and probably some erros. Also, was there a final decision regarding monks and improved natural attack. I really dont think they can take it so I gave Brilf psionic fist as a substitute feat (actually worked in his favor) mostly because I knew it wouldn't matter so I made no fuss. I would like to get an official ruiling on this in the future. @ Mind Rogue I just quickly cut and pasted Vaugery stats there because RakkaR used to ride around on a heavy warhorse until the new CoCo ally ruling. Warhorses are trained for comabt riding and thus by default have the defend trick (see phb handle animal skill). As I am no expert on equine behavior, I cannot say for certainity if your hypothesis regarding horses is correct. I can however say for certainity that it does not square with anything listed in the SRD and is inconsitent in the manner the defend trick has been used her in the past. An animal trained for war will defend to the best of its ability, not be content with merely driving away a foe (note this is what the "down" trick is for). While I can point to any military manual in the history of warfare for evidence of how height confers an advanatge to ranged attacks, it would appear the PHB does indeed say there is no bonus for a ranged attack for height advantage. I can honestly say I, and I presume 90% of eveyone else, did not know this. I can also say it is stupid, unrealistic, and will be immediately rule zeroed in all campaigns where I have decision making power and/or influence.
Ellorion Saenelle 08-26-05, 04:11 AM	@Pitlords and others: GuardianAngel has withdrawn from CoCO. He's got 2 fights - the one below and Kraegin's match. I am willing to take the one below - and I hope someone will pick up Kraegin's match. Alac (Pauper) vs Shan (Shaken) vs Juntar (KerlanRayne): GuardianAngel Also to the gladiators of my 1v1v1 fight - I will re-review all of the comments thus far before I post the latest revision. It won't be until tomorrow before noon eastern time, so be patient. If nobody wants to run the fight then I will take it.
Maraxus 08-26-05, 08:19 AM	Alright...one last thing from the rerun... (.....) Emphasis mine. Since Amion charged in round 5, in round 6, his AC would only be a 17, not a 19, meaning that my attack in round 6 would hit, and this may very well change the outcome. Edit: In fact, I am all but positive that it will definitely change the outcome. The minimum damage I can do with this hit is 4, which will leave Amion with 6 HP until Round 9, at which point I hit for 8 damage, incapacitating him. Arg, you are right, and this is a kind of mistake I'm happy to change, a real mistake! You should have already said this at the first version and not that stupid bargaining to do a worse tactic because when you know the rolls it is better. Edit: Okay, fight is done. Now the winner has changed. Waywreth: say something if you don't like it that way. :) PPS: NiQil, hope that I'm not to pitlord you again, because from now, I will use your tactics, no matter how wrong they are in the situation.
waywreth 08-26-05, 08:55 AM	Looks ok to me. I really need to specify use of that Luck Domain though, no Pitlord seems to want to use it. Thanks for Pitlording.
Maraxus 08-26-05, 09:22 AM	Hey, I used the luck on the first round the force screen droped (in the first two versions :)). Before this it looked like a waste for me.
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 09:23 AM	#1 I'd like to note Victor uses cold energy powers in ALL cases except those where he's fireing a ray against a metal armor person with low reflex. Cold energy is Fort after all and can't be negated by evasion normally. #2 Victor can only cast one energy missle a fight if you look at the PP it's 5+1 not 6 #3 Victor starts with his crossbow in hand and loaded. He doesn't move to mainfest so putting it away = stupid. These are MAJOR issues. They would change the fight compleatly. I wanted Victor to fire the energy missile and other powers at the Monk cause he's dangerous in Melee and knocking him down first is important. The crossbow would technically do against the Mage (protection from arrows/shield not withstanding) Lastly the +1 is to go for a disable power, though yes I should have noted that. Well Laughing Dragon, I think we've got to look at your tactics for this: If Yoriko is spoted first, fire off an energy missle and retreate away a move distance away, behind a rock or piller if posible. Once that's done I would like Victor to try and fire at Yoriko from cover. If Dalamar is spoted first, avoid contact and stay hidden if possible, take cover behind a rock or piller. Wait until Yoriko is spoted, either engaging or alone, if alone act as if he's the first to be spoted but add the act of continued avoidance of Yoriko. If they engage in combat with each other fire an energy missile into the fray hopeing to hit both at once. Once Yoriko has been shot at with the energy missile (Make it a cold one if Dalamar can get hit too) please expend PP one at a time fireing energy missiles at whoever is still standing. Once all PP are expeneded start fireing the ole crossbow. You said in your post that you wanted to be using a cold missile instead of anything else. However, the only mention of the energy type is here: Once Yoriko has been shot at with the energy missile (Make it a cold one if Dalamar can get hit too) This implies to me that you want to use something other than cold if Dalamar couldn't be hit. I picked the one that had the best chance of succeeding - electricity. If you want this changed - I'm sorry you are going to have to be more specific about what you want in the future. Your 2nd point is that he can only fire one energy missile because you have his PP listed as 16 (5+1). However, 16/3 = 5 1/3 = 6. Therefore, you really had 2 missiles that could be used. I did however screw this up during the fight and you'd have 1 PP left to use. Also, since you do have to replenish the PP in the Crystal, you should probably state it as a prebuff. As to what to use with your PP, again, in your tactics you clearly state Energy Missile. To your 3rd point - you don't specify in your tactics ANYTHING in your hand. If your crossbow is not listed as in hand - its not going to be during the fight until you need it. Anyway, I am in the process of fixing the fight, so you will get that extra PP of use.
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 09:42 AM	@ all Brilf vs the mephit mob is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7061832). The Mephits best chances were neutralized because of Brilf's mon abilities. Still it was a complicated fight and probably some erros. Also, was there a final decision regarding monks and improved natural attack. I really dont think they can take it so I gave Brilf psionic fist as a substitute feat (actually worked in his favor) mostly because I knew it wouldn't matter so I made no fuss. I would like to get an official ruiling on this in the future. @ Mind Rogue I just quickly cut and pasted Vaugery stats there because RakkaR used to ride around on a heavy warhorse until the new CoCo ally ruling. Warhorses are trained for comabt riding and thus by default have the defend trick (see phb handle animal skill). As I am no expert on equine behavior, I cannot say for certainity if your hypothesis regarding horses is correct. I can however say for certainity that it does not square with anything listed in the SRD and is inconsitent in the manner the defend trick has been used her in the past. An animal trained for war will defend to the best of its ability, not be content with merely driving away a foe (note this is what the "down" trick is for). While I can point to any military manual in the history of warfare for evidence of how height confers an advanatge to ranged attacks, it would appear the PHB does indeed say there is no bonus for a ranged attack for height advantage. I can honestly say I, and I presume 90% of eveyone else, did not know this. I can also say it is stupid, unrealistic, and will be immediately rule zeroed in all campaigns where I have decision making power and/or influence. Perhaps I am wrong, seeing as I'm not an expert on horse behavior either, but from my experience, an animal that doesn't plan on eating you, such as a horse, will usually leave you alone if you can get far enough away from it. Animals first priority is usually survival and thus won't charge after an armed opponent by themself, although they might if they feel they will still be threatened. However, they might take the option of retreat, believing that that is the safest path. Since generally horses can outrun humans, that would be the safest path for it. Also, this first priority is why you can beat away a mountain lion with just a stick; they're more worried about they're own hide then yours. I wouldn't try this with a bear though; they're first priority is usually the safety of their cubs, which means fighting back. Anyway, heres a rule that might help. If you are knocked unconscious, you have a 50% chance to stay in the saddle (or 75% if you're in a military saddle). Otherwise you fall and take 1d6 points of damage. Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat. So, even with the defend trick, it should avoid combat without you to direct it. Also, as long as you remain mounted, it is technically defending you if it avoids combat by removing you from the source of the danger. But you should include the tricks you pets have been taught.
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 10:29 AM	Okay - my 1v1v1 fight has been revised again. I'm going to reiterate that tactics simply weren't clear enough to determine correct course of action for everyone but Dalamar. Yoriko, in round 15 has three options: 1. She can move like she did, under cover and try to heal. 2. Can move in and try to grapple Dalamar to death 3. Can move in and attack. If you take a look at the online roller you'll see that I did the initial touch attack for the Grapple, but did not follow it up with an opposed roll. There's a reason for this: tactics just aren't clear enough. If Yoriko is hurt enough to need healing at 8hp, why isn't she suddenly at 2hp? If Yoriko's tactics say, if I am being pegged by Magic Missiles, grapple him to stop them - that's definitely enough. There are other ways to say it. However, at this point, the fight has undergone extensive revision. I realize that it may still not be to everyone's satisfaction - I will try to resolve further issues. If you do try to make a point though - make sure that it is clearly in your tactics. Frankly, I disagree that Yoriko's tactics indicate to grapple Dalamar at all, unless being pegged by crossbow bolts from Victor.
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 10:34 AM	If nobody wants to run the fight then I will take it. @Pitlords and Gladiators in GuardianAngel's fights: I am taking the 1v1v1 fight and Ellorion is taking Kraegin vs. Czernobog. Resend your tactics if you have not already. Thanks /d
Altaris13 08-26-05, 10:36 AM	@my fighters: please note that my account is Altaris13. Do not send tactics to Altaris. @Cat: Please change the Pitlord roster to Altaris13!
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 10:37 AM	@Ellorian - tactics for Kraegin sent.
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 10:45 AM	@Kaigan - still waiting for tactics for Alex the Hunter
xanadu 08-26-05, 11:09 AM	Mind Rogue - You are creating a house rule! A warhorse is not a passive beast of burden, it is "trained and bred for strength and aggression." What your interpretation is doing is artificially implementing the down trick: Down (DC 15): The animal breaks off from combat or otherwise backs down. An animal that doesn’t know this trick continues to fight until it must flee (due to injury, a fear effect, or the like) or its opponent is defeated. No such command was given, so its default behavior, defend, is still active. Defend means it attacks RakkaR's assailant to the best of its ability. You can't make up rules on broad generalizations for animals because warhorses are specifically trained to overcome these insticts (cf. entry for "horse").
nightbanegod 08-26-05, 11:29 AM	Okay - my 1v1v1 fight has been revised again. I'm going to reiterate that tactics simply weren't clear enough to determine correct course of action for everyone but Dalamar. Yoriko, in round 15 has three options: 1. She can move like she did, under cover and try to heal. 2. Can move in and try to grapple Dalamar to death 3. Can move in and attack. If you take a look at the online roller you'll see that I did the initial touch attack for the Grapple, but did not follow it up with an opposed roll. There's a reason for this: tactics just aren't clear enough. If Yoriko is hurt enough to need healing at 8hp, why isn't she suddenly at 2hp? If Yoriko's tactics say, if I am being pegged by Magic Missiles, grapple him to stop them - that's definitely enough. There are other ways to say it. However, at this point, the fight has undergone extensive revision. I realize that it may still not be to everyone's satisfaction - I will try to resolve further issues. If you do try to make a point though - make sure that it is clearly in your tactics. Frankly, I disagree that Yoriko's tactics indicate to grapple Dalamar at all, unless being pegged by crossbow bolts from Victor. Argggg the revisions .... as of yet nothing is proven except how tactically sound Dalamars tactics are and yall keep making me use up more scrolls ... give it a rest .. i smoked ya both!! the :king: taps his foot angrily...
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 11:35 AM	Mind Rogue - You are creating a house rule! A warhorse is not a passive beast of burden, it is "trained and bred for strength and aggression." What your interpretation is doing is artificially implementing the down trick: No such command was given, so its default behavior, defend, is still active. Defend means it attacks RakkaR's assailant to the best of its ability. You can't make up rules on broad generalizations for animals because warhorses are specifically trained to overcome these insticts (cf. entry for "horse"). The defend trick does not say that your mount attacks your assailant, it says that it defends you, and to the best of my knowledge, removing you from the threat is still an excellant way of protecting somebody. And again, the PHB does state that without you to guide it, the mount avoids combat.
NiQil 08-26-05, 11:39 AM	Arg, you are right, and this is a kind of mistake I'm happy to change, a real mistake! You should have already said this at the first version and not that stupid bargaining to do a worse tactic because when you know the rolls it is better. Edit: Okay, fight is done. Now the winner has changed. Waywreth: say something if you don't like it that way. :) PPS: NiQil, hope that I'm not to pitlord you again, because from now, I will use your tactics, no matter how wrong they are in the situation. I only ever ask that my tactics are followed. I would rather lose because of my poor tactics than lose because they were not followed at all. In fact, in previous fights, having already lost, I have asked previous pitlords to rerun parts of fights to follow my tactics, when all it ended up doing was cost me more resources to lose. But, believe it or not, there is a method to my madness. Had I not insisted on my tactics being followed, the first revision would never have occured, and I would have been stuck with a hit that was negated by cover. Had I not asked for the second revision, I would have had a hit that missed that should have hit. Those two hits turned this battle. Without either one of them, I still lose. But, win or lose, all I *ever ask is that my tactics are followed.
SoulLord 08-26-05, 11:46 AM	tactics for santos received tactics for farfinar not received. tactics for vandelar will be sent later today
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 11:52 AM	Okay - my 1v1v1 fight has been revised again. I'm going to reiterate that tactics simply weren't clear enough to determine correct course of action for everyone but Dalamar. Yoriko, in round 15 has three options: 1. She can move like she did, under cover and try to heal. 2. Can move in and try to grapple Dalamar to death 3. Can move in and attack. If you take a look at the online roller you'll see that I did the initial touch attack for the Grapple, but did not follow it up with an opposed roll. There's a reason for this: tactics just aren't clear enough. If Yoriko is hurt enough to need healing at 8hp, why isn't she suddenly at 2hp? If Yoriko's tactics say, if I am being pegged by Magic Missiles, grapple him to stop them - that's definitely enough. There are other ways to say it. However, at this point, the fight has undergone extensive revision. I realize that it may still not be to everyone's satisfaction - I will try to resolve further issues. If you do try to make a point though - make sure that it is clearly in your tactics. Frankly, I disagree that Yoriko's tactics indicate to grapple Dalamar at all, unless being pegged by crossbow bolts from Victor. My tactics said that if Victor has used his powers twice, grapple Dalamar. Victor has used his powers twice. By grappling him, I prevent him from casting spells, which helps protect me and is therefore a better tactic than trying to trip. Perhaps I should have just said "ignore Victor and grapple Dalamar" which would have been a much simpler tactic that can't be miss interpreted. However, I should have paid more attention to the scrolls that he had.
xanadu 08-26-05, 11:53 AM	the PHB does state that without you to guide it, the mount avoids combat. Where? This contradicts: Defend (DC 20): The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given. Alternatively, you can command the animal to defend a specific other character. The default mechanics for an animals attack should not be based on generalizations; instead it should be based on what is in the rules. By looking at the down trick, we can see that an animal attacks until it is incapable of doing so - it does not have the requsite intelligence to formulate strategic decisions. Down (DC 15): The animal breaks off from combat or otherwise backs down. An animal that doesn’t know this trick continues to fight until it must flee (due to injury, a fear effect, or the like) or its opponent is defeated. Again, because no such command was given, it should continue to press the attack. Also, look at old fights from CoCo, you will see that mounts have consistently acted in the manner in which I am advocating ever since the beginning. I am not making stuff up!
Ellorion Saenelle 08-26-05, 12:23 PM	@ TelinArtho Tactics Recieved.
Ellorion Saenelle 08-26-05, 12:25 PM	@meekhead waithing for tactics.
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 12:29 PM	Where? This contradicts: The default mechanics for an animals attack should not be based on generalizations; instead it should be based on what is in the rules. By looking at the down trick, we can see that an animal attacks until it is incapable of doing so - it does not have the requsite intelligence to formulate strategic decisions. Again, because no such command was given, it should continue to press the attack. Also, look at old fights from CoCo, you will see that mounts have consistently acted in the manner in which I am advocating ever since the beginning. I am not making stuff up! Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat. I stated this before. Your war-trained mount is trained to remove you from a dangerous situation should you fall. A non-war-trained mount will avoid combat based simply on pure instinct.
Huan 08-26-05, 12:50 PM	@Pitbull Tactics for Hagrid received, thank you.
Gonbow 08-26-05, 01:03 PM	@Kaigan Tactics recieved. I can start running Daeran vrs Maylee now.
Snommelp 08-26-05, 01:15 PM	I stated this before. Your war-trained mount is trained to remove you from a dangerous situation should you fall. A non-war-trained mount will avoid combat based simply on pure instinct. We went through this whole thing before I went inactive over the summer. The defend trick is somewhat ambiguous, but it's been decided in CoCo that, considering the arena style, the best way for a mount to defend its rider is to remove the threat.
xanadu 08-26-05, 01:36 PM	We went through this whole thing before I went inactive over the summer. The defend trick is somewhat ambiguous, but it's been decided in CoCo that, considering the arena style, the best way for a mount to defend its rider is to remove the threat. Yes and I dont think it is fair to start changing things when it's my guy in the arena.
xanadu 08-26-05, 01:38 PM	Cat, I still need tactics for Indri
Maraxus 08-26-05, 01:52 PM	About the mount thing: I agree, that the horse should attack my character in the last round. If I then withdraw out of sight, it should have no reason to follow me but as long as I stand next to him and do aggressive stuff, it should be motivated to attack me. ... Just think how you would act with an intelligence of 2 :D;)
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 02:04 PM	@Kaigan - tactics received for Alex.
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 02:21 PM	Okay, I've edited the fight for a slightly more aggressive mount. Really, about the only result is that Mythos has to spend about 4 more arrows. But hey, what do you expect when your opponent is a 4th level commoner? Also, I've recieved Kaigen's tactics and will be starting that fight soon.
Luni 08-26-05, 02:25 PM	Tactics Received: King Uther & Huan; Lortavos (Gonbow) Tactics Waiting: Goran (KerlanRayne); Omo-Na (LLMadCow); Esmara (Iced); Zassl (Maraxus) Just a friendly reminder. No pressure.
Caterane 08-26-05, 03:08 PM	Cat, I still need tactics for Indri Sorry I was busy all week. Tactics sent. On to update the board *woosh*
Beldin 08-26-05, 03:30 PM	tactics for Inihe have been sent to michael_noah via email.
Caterane 08-26-05, 03:44 PM	One thing: please try to post the fight in one piece else I have to check back regularily. Thanks Mugen vs Warhorse is up! Wow, what a match
SoulLord 08-26-05, 04:05 PM	Vathelokai is not listed among the active pitlords. will send tactics by pm
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 04:12 PM	Xyanthraxia vs Alex the Hunter is up. Xyanthraxia vs Alex the Hunter (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7078564) Xyan - I'm going to do a full audit on your character if you don't fix the attack modifier to your scythe... --EDIT: Corrected damage from Alex's arrows since they were magical. /d
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 04:14 PM	Waiting on tactics from: Alac (Pauper) Shan (Shaken) Juntar (KerlanRayne) for the fight that I'm taking from GuardianAngel.
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 04:23 PM	One thing: please try to post the fight in one piece else I have to check back regularily. Thanks Mugen vs Warhorse is up! Wow, what a match I guess that might be referencing me... but Eiletha vs Torgirr is up. Did Torgirr make his save, or did he perish (or did he make his save and still perish?) That was close, so come and see.
Vathelokai 08-26-05, 05:46 PM	Czernobog (Meek Head) vs Kraegin (TelinArtho): Did you guys notice the 'I'm leaving' thread GuardianAngel posted?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-26-05, 05:55 PM	I just noticed in Torgrirr's tactics he states "quickdraw a potion of..." Quickdraw only applies to weapons or weapon-like objects. Potions do not qualify as weapon-like objects. -ToK
xanadu 08-26-05, 06:12 PM	Okay, I've edited the fight for a slightly more aggressive mount. Really, about the only result is that Mythos has to spend about 4 more arrows. But hey, what do you expect when your opponent is a 4th level commoner? I expected to lose. But I also expect consistency. Thank you for re-running the mount. Xyan - I'm going to do a full audit on your character if you don't fix the attack modifier to your scythe... Ok, OK! It's not meant to be a combat weapon so it shouldn't matter. Speak her name again and you best sleep with your doors locked and eyes wide open :evillaugh
Altaris13 08-26-05, 06:21 PM	I have not received tactics for: Vivi (Dr. Funk) The Dire Flame (Iced) Sdentch (TheMagister) Tactics were received for Nexa (Usurpator.) Please pm tactics to Altaris13 ASAP. I will not have much time to edit fights following Sunday.
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 07:09 PM	I expected to lose. But I also expect consistency. Thank you for re-running the mount. Ok, OK! It's not meant to be a combat weapon so it shouldn't matter. Speak her name again and you best sleep with your doors locked and eyes wide open :evillaugh Well, if you want consistancy, I've been basing mount tactics on that passage both here over the past month and a half and in my own campaign five years ago when one of the party members turned on the paladin. His steed carried him away to safety, and I haven't had somebody fight mounted in one of my campaigns since. @ Telish Since he didn't say what type of potion to draw, I assumed he ment an alchemist fire, which is a weapon.
NiQil 08-26-05, 07:31 PM	@Gonbow Tactics sent via PM for team fight.
Gonbow 08-26-05, 07:42 PM	@Niqil Tactics recieved. @all I'll run the team fight after I run Maylee vrs Daeran, thanks everyone for getting your tactics to me in a timely fashion :)
nightbanegod 08-26-05, 08:10 PM	ok i just want to make sure before editing my character sheet.... Dalamar has won the fight against both of ya and he gets 1800 xp/gp... and the matter is settled right?
Maraxus 08-26-05, 08:23 PM	Right, I wanted to ask that, too. You should be allowed to edit your sheed, as soon as the fight is posted (since this includes a version of your character), right?
NiQil 08-26-05, 08:31 PM	Right, I wanted to ask that, too. You should be allowed to edit your sheed, as soon as the fight is posted (since this includes a version of your character), right? I've always edited my character as soon as the post is made in the Battles thread, since the Battles thread contains the character sheet that was used for the battle. No one has ever expressed any problems to me about it <shrug>
nightbanegod 08-26-05, 08:40 PM	Right, I wanted to ask that, too. You should be allowed to edit your sheed, as soon as the fight is posted (since this includes a version of your character), right? I've always edited my character as soon as the post is made in the Battles thread, since the Battles thread contains the character sheet that was used for the battle. No one has ever expressed any problems to me about it <shrug> well it matters in this case since i need to know wether or not i level up... since it was a major surprise i won that fight ... i did the math and i lvl up from this now ... whereas both of my competitors who were MUCH closer to lvling up than me ... dont get to lvl up *snicker* ... so i dont want to go through all the steps id go through to lvl up to find out that there has been another edit of the fight since there has been 2 already and now i dont lvl up ... sorry for saying lvl up so much but its really the main idea of this post ... PS: LVL UP
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 09:10 PM	Grudgingly. 25 Xp. What I would do for 25 Xp... Next time, methinks I'll pay a little more attention to what possessions my foe brought and not just their spells prepared. I also hope that I'll get some average rolls on them healing potions.
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 09:14 PM	Czernobog (Meek Head) vs Kraegin (TelinArtho): Did you guys notice the 'I'm leaving' thread GuardianAngel posted? Yup - that fight has been grabbed by Ellorian. I took GuardianAngel's other fight (the 3 player free-for-all)
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 09:27 PM	@KerlanRayne - tactcs received. Still waiting on Shan and Alac
nightbanegod 08-26-05, 09:34 PM	Grudgingly. 25 Xp. What I would do for 25 Xp... Next time, methinks I'll pay a little more attention to what possessions my foe brought and not just their spells prepared. I also hope that I'll get some average rolls on them healing potions. ALAS ... 25xp hurts... and come on man.. im a wizard with 8 spell lvls and i can cast only 3... so i prepare onething then drag along a completely different attack plan ... makes ya think doesnt it? OHH and everyone must respect summon bat swarms now!!! BLEED sucka BLEEEEEEEEEED... ps: sorry to all fragile suckas out there
Begferdeth 08-26-05, 09:41 PM	Wooo! Ch'Ch'Ili won one! @Luni, the damage for my energy ray is 4d6+2. Sorry, I forgot to change it in my default tactics... I originally thought I could augment it somehow so that it was like a 2nd level wilder with max augmenting (3pp, so 3d6+3) and the psishot. But then I read somewheres on here that it works like you have it. Ive been including it in all the other tactics I send out, but I never noticed that I had it in the default too. Hope that doesnt change the fight, Im off to fix that now...
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 10:09 PM	ALAS ... 25xp hurts... and come on man.. im a wizard with 8 spell lvls and i can cast only 3... so i prepare onething then drag along a completely different attack plan ... makes ya think doesnt it? OHH and everyone must respect summon bat swarms now!!! BLEED sucka BLEEEEEEEEEED... ps: sorry to all fragile suckas out there If it weren't for the fact that she's on a campaign right now, I'd challange you with my 4th level druid and floor you. Perhaps you like to summon swarms, but I can pay you right back in spades, and invisibility doesn't help much against bats or spiders.
nightbanegod 08-26-05, 11:39 PM	If it weren't for the fact that she's on a campaign right now, I'd challange you with my 4th level druid and floor you. Perhaps you like to summon swarms, but I can pay you right back in spades, and invisibility doesn't help much against bats or spiders. "i would accept that challenge and show you that arcane might always trumps Divine weakness. At least i do not rely on some false god for my strengths!" sayeth Dalamar, still enamored at his own success OOC: this is truly the mindset that the character Dalamar will have/already has in Gladius whenever encountered by other PCs/NPCs... so yeah i might be hyping him up a bit, but, alas, thats just the way he is
Ellorion Saenelle 08-27-05, 12:01 AM	@nightbanegod what do you have to say about this then? http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7028543&postcount=265
Cerebus13 08-27-05, 03:10 AM	@my gladiators I've received both of your tactics for this week and will be running the fight Saturday or Sunday. @Caterane I sent off tactics to you for Guts' fight via email. I waited until the last minute to do it in case the Xill was getting an equipment list, but ended up sending in tactics assuming he has nothing. If this changes let me know and I'll adjust if needed.
LongArcher 08-27-05, 10:06 AM	Thought I was in this thread earlier. My apolagies to the quest people "Mining for a grave" for my interruption of their flow. Anyhow, on to my question. I've tried reading the FAQ with concerned to allies. All the new lingo is very confusing. Basically I can't have any allies greater than my ECL-4 right? Also, about Free Activities: From reading the posts and stuff for a little bit before creating my character, I noted that professions make money. Since I've decided to take +6 Profession: Bounty Hunter [5 ranks, +1 int] in light of the new guilds coming soon, can I make money during my fight as well? If I can then I would like to announce to Kaigan that I would like to make money using Free Activities as well. Thanks, Again, sorry for posting in wrong thread. I could have sworn I clicked here.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-27-05, 10:11 AM	Thought I was in this thread earlier. My apolagies to the quest people "Mining for a grave" for my interruption of their flow. Anyhow, on to my question. I've tried reading the FAQ with concerned to allies. All the new lingo is very confusing. Basically I can't have any allies greater than my ECL-4 right? Also, about Free Activities: From reading the posts and stuff for a little bit before creating my character, I noted that professions make money. Since I've decided to take +6 Profession: Bounty Hunter [5 ranks, +1 int] in light of the new guilds coming soon, can I make money during my fight as well? If I can then I would like to announce to Kaigan that I would like to make money using Free Activities as well. Thanks, Again, sorry for posting in wrong thread. I could have sworn I clicked here. #1: Not quite, but close. Leadership allies are ECL-2 as per the leadership feat. Some allies (with no LA), are based on CR. One monstrous ally can be no greater than your ECL-4 (minimum of 1), and you can have any number up to your ECL-2. Since you are 3rd level, you can have 8 rats (CR 1). Once you hit 4th, you can have 16 rats (CR 1 + CR 1 = CR 2) which is your ECL-2. #2: you're forgiven...just don't let it happen again :P -ToK
SoulLord 08-27-05, 11:09 AM	Due to the recent changes in transparency I'm no longer sure on an issue Does Spell resistance equals power resistance or not?
Meek Head 08-27-05, 11:38 AM	@meekhead waithing for tactics. I have sent tactics. I was out of town, sorry for the delay! Thank you for your patience! :)
Pitlords 08-27-05, 11:59 AM	New Fight Assignments: Alac (Pauper) vs Shan (Shaken) vs Juntar (KerlanRayne): GuardianAngel TelinArtho Czernobog (Meek Head) vs Kraegin (TelinArtho): GuardianAngel Tellish of Ket GuardianAngel -3°, TelinArtho+2°, Tellish of Ket+1° @Tellish: Don't you want to be listed on the active list again? You're running a fight every week. Again, please post the fights in one piece. There are two new unfinished fights up. :(
TelinArtho 08-27-05, 12:03 PM	@Pitlords - in case you've missed the progression, I'm taking Guardian Angel's three-way fight. Ellorian is taking the Czernobog vs Kraegin fight. Ellorian already has the tactics for the Czernobog vs Kraegin fight. /d
Meek Head 08-27-05, 12:12 PM	New Fight Assignments: Alac (Pauper) vs Shan (Shaken) vs Juntar (KerlanRayne): GuardianAngel TelinArtho Czernobog (Meek Head) vs Kraegin (TelinArtho): GuardianAngel Tellish of Ket GuardianAngel -3°, TelinArtho+2°, Tellish of Ket+1° @Tellish: Don't you want to be listed on the active list again? You're running a fight every week. Again, please post the fights in one piece. There are two new unfinished fights up. :( @Pitlords - in case you've missed the progression, I'm taking Guardian Angel's three-way fight. Ellorian is taking the Czernobog vs Kraegin fight. Ellorian already has the tactics for the Czernobog vs Kraegin fight. /d Sent tactics to Tellish_of_Ket also.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-27-05, 12:17 PM	New Fight Assignments: Alac (Pauper) vs Shan (Shaken) vs Juntar (KerlanRayne): GuardianAngel TelinArtho Czernobog (Meek Head) vs Kraegin (TelinArtho): GuardianAngel Tellish of Ket GuardianAngel -3°, TelinArtho+2°, Tellish of Ket+1° @Tellish: Don't you want to be listed on the active list again? You're running a fight every week. Again, please post the fights in one piece. There are two new unfinished fights up. :( Nope. It's only in case of emergencies. The campaign keeps me quite busy. I don't mind running that fight as long as Ellorian hasn't recieved both tactics yet. I'm sure he wouldn't mind earning the extra credit as well. If he changes his mind, or something happens that he can't run it, at least i'll have the tactics to fill in, in case he also drops out. Maybe, TelinArtho, if you can send me Kraegin's tactics in case, that would be super. Otherwise, happy hunting. -ToK
TelinArtho 08-27-05, 12:27 PM	I've sent tactics to you as well Tellish. /d
SoulLord 08-27-05, 01:21 PM	another question. what do you do when 2 let's say invisible characters not aware of each other pass through their squares? lets say A is in square (8,8) B is in square (8,9) and that A moves to square (8,10) do you roll a 50% hance to bump into the invisible character? let them pass through unhindered? automatically pinpoint each other? Thanks.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-27-05, 01:24 PM	I've sent tactics to you as well Tellish. /d K. thx. Just waiting to here from Ellorian if he's already run it, is still running it, or wants to pass the torch. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 08-27-05, 01:27 PM	another question. what do you do when 2 let's say invisible characters not aware of each other pass through their squares? lets say A is in square (8,8) B is in square (8,9) and that A moves to square (8,10) do you roll a 50% hance to bump into the invisible character? let them pass through unhindered? automatically pinpoint each other? Thanks. They would "bump" into each other. Person A, moves into person B's square, and since B can't actively avoid it, there is no 50/50 miss chance in this case. Person A, walking into person B, would be "bumped" back into his square, since B doesn't have the option of 'letting him pass'. -ToK
Mind Rogue 08-27-05, 01:43 PM	They would "bump" into each other. Person A, moves into person B's square, and since B can't actively avoid it, there is no 50/50 miss chance in this case. Person A, walking into person B, would be "bumped" back into his square, since B doesn't have the option of 'letting him pass'. -ToK Except that neither character fills the entire space. There is sufficient room that the two characters could both fit into the same space at the same time. Personally, I'd call it an unintentional overrun except that since the two aren't aware of each other, there is a 50/50 shot that the two just walk by, but if they do meet, person B has no option but to block his opponent, which causes a strength check to see if either of them are knocked prone. If neither are, person A would be bumbed back into his space.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-27-05, 01:49 PM	Except that neither character fills the entire space. There is sufficient room that the two characters could both fit into the same space at the same time. Personally, I'd call it an unintentional overrun except that since the two aren't aware of each other, there is a 50/50 shot that the two just walk by, but if they do meet, person B has no option but to block his opponent, which causes a strength check to see if either of them are knocked prone. If neither are, person A would be bumbed back into his space. I disagree. A player occupying a square is considered to "occupy the whole square". There are rules that cover that. Just as a player mounted occupies all 10x10 upon the back of the mount. The reason for the 50/50 chance is because one is actively avoiding the other. In this case, neither are actively avoiding anything. There is zero chance of NOT bumping into each other in a 5x5 square. 5x5 isn't that big, and there are no rules to govern it as such anyhow. All we have to go on are the "sharing space", "bumping" rules. In soullords example, the two players have no choice but to "bump". -ToK
NiQil 08-27-05, 02:03 PM	Per the SRD, Tellish is correct Moving through a Square Friend: You can move through a square occupied by a friendly character, unless you are charging. When you move through a square occupied by a friendly character, that character doesn’t provide you with cover. Opponent: You can’t move through a square occupied by an opponent, unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. (Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.) Emphasis mine
Mind Rogue 08-27-05, 03:09 PM	You can always move through a square occupied by someone who lets you by. Since your opponent cannot block you, you should be able to move past. Also, the Overrun and Tumble rules are presented as exceptions to the rule of not being able to move through an opponents square. I had suggested treating this incident as an unintentional overrun attempt.
NiQil 08-27-05, 03:20 PM	Since your opponent cannot block you, you should be able to move past. Also, the Overrun and Tumble rules are presented as exceptions to the rule of not being able to move through an opponents square. I had suggested treating this incident as an unintentional overrun attempt. Overrun and Tumble have no bearing on the situation. By the RAW, you cannot move through an opponents square (and I want to say that it will provoke attacks of opportunity as well, although that I am not sure on), unless the opponent allows it. Your quote is referring to spaces occupied by friendlies, as evidenced by the earlier portion of the same quote of mine, stating that you can move through a friendly square. Regardless of whether you know an opponent is there or not, you cannot move through an occupied square in a normal movement manner unless the occupant of the square allows it. And I am not positive, but I do not believe that the opponent has the option to allow you to pass through (although again, having not looked for that part of it, I could be wrong).
Luni 08-27-05, 03:21 PM	Dameon and Balbanes vs Esmara and Zassl is done. Look for it Here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7086150&postcount=292)
Maraxus 08-27-05, 04:16 PM	Okay, thinks I don't like about the fight: 1st: I should have got a hide check in the first round, since I have cover. (This could massivly change the fight) 2nd: Balbanes used a lot of arcane scrolls. Those have arcane spell failure. 3rd: When one casts sleep, the target is choosen at the end of the casting. That is why Dameon could run out in round 11 but this also mean that I could just cast it at Balbanes unless he jumps away, to. 4th: I was quite sure that the ground can be used to anchor the web. If you see that diffrent, at least the ground and the pillar Balbanes is standing next to could be used (or even more the pillar and the 5ft stone northeast from him) Minor stuff: 5th: The hide check Dameon got in round 13 looks quite cheep. I would believe that this falls under the "hiding while attacking" and gets -20 penalty. However, I don't know sure, I would accept it. 6th: That Esmara does not use her second invisibility, while fired while blind - looks bad, but okay, we have allready spend enough for a loosing.
sloisel 08-27-05, 05:06 PM	They would "bump" into each other. Person A, moves into person B's square, and since B can't actively avoid it, there is no 50/50 miss chance in this case. Person A, walking into person B, would be "bumped" back into his square, since B doesn't have the option of 'letting him pass'. -ToK That is completely incorrect, and the one fight that happened to me was completely infuriating. The rules for pinpointing invisible creatures are recalled in this issue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a) of Rules of the Game. As a standard action, you can probe two adjacent squares for invisible creatures. This requires a touch attack and does have a 50% miss chance. It is not sufficient to take a move action through those two squares. "Probing an area" is not an attack of those creatures, it is a standard action that one takes to locate invisible creatures. If you do locate an invisible creature by probing, you typically can't do anything about it since you've already used up your action by probing. Sebastien Loisel
NiQil 08-27-05, 05:12 PM	That is completely incorrect, and the one fight that happened to me was completely infuriating. The rules for pinpointing invisible creatures are recalled in this issue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a) of rules of the game. As a standard action, you can probe two adjacent squares for invisible creatures. This requires a touch attack and does have a 50% miss chance. It is not sufficient to take a move action through those two squares. Sebastien Loisel I don't think the original question had anything to do with pinpointing an invisible opponent. The original question seemed to be more in the direction of can he even get into the opponents square, and what happens of he does. I think the invisibility portion of it is secondary. For instance, if two people that could see each other are in the same situation, and one attempts to pass through the other's square, he cannot. The question was trying to determine (at least this is how I took it) whether the 50% concealment would change this at all. But regardless of invisibility or not, you cannot pass into or through an opponent's square.
Iced 08-27-05, 05:15 PM	Esmara has protection from arrows she would have lasted longer in the fight and has the potential to do more damage.
nightbanegod 08-27-05, 05:19 PM	AERYN VS KRONOS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7081029&postcount=289) all things considered, a remarkably boring fight ... and with one TICKED off slab of landscape
Mind Rogue 08-27-05, 05:45 PM	Overrun and Tumble have no bearing on the situation. By the RAW, you cannot move through an opponents square (and I want to say that it will provoke attacks of opportunity as well, although that I am not sure on), unless the opponent allows it. Your quote is referring to spaces occupied by friendlies, as evidenced by the earlier portion of the same quote of mine, stating that you can move through a friendly square. Regardless of whether you know an opponent is there or not, you cannot move through an occupied square in a normal movement manner unless the occupant of the square allows it. And I am not positive, but I do not believe that the opponent has the option to allow you to pass through (although again, having not looked for that part of it, I could be wrong). Actually, my quote came from the Overrun section and not the part about moving through friendlies. You just said that if your opponent allows it, you can move through their square. Since you are invisible and I am assuming unheard, your opponent is powerless to try and stop you, thus they have no choice but to allow you through their square, just as if they where helpless or friendly towards you. The fact that the other person is also invisible might complicate things, since they could concievably bump into each other, but your opponent cannot actively prevent you from moving through the square, thus you should be able to do so.
nightbanegod 08-27-05, 05:52 PM	a DISTURBING mini quest has been completed, come look at "CREEPY CRAWLIES" (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7069638#post7069638) PS did i get those rewards for exp and gp right in the questlog?
TelinArtho 08-27-05, 05:54 PM	Yup, but I did use my antitoxin before entering the cave. Although it didn't come up, Vakkor would have been very prepared...
NiQil 08-27-05, 05:55 PM	As I said, I'm not sure if the opponent has the option to allow you to pass through their space. But, by the RAW, you CANNOT pass through an opponent's space. Skills and abilities that specifically state otherwise are excepted. If it doesn't say otherwise, then you can't do it. Last time I checked, neither concealment nor invisibility said it. Therefore, per this: Opponent: You can’t move through a square occupied by an opponent, unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. (Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.) you cannot. I don't know how much clearer the RAW can be.
TelinArtho 08-27-05, 06:02 PM	@Nightbanegod - actually there is one more thing. Vakkor is making money with profession (vermin herding) this week, which is worth (11+10)*3 = 63gp. You should add that to the quest log as well.
Gonbow 08-27-05, 06:02 PM	As I said, I'm not sure if the opponent has the option to allow you to pass through their space. But, by the RAW, you CANNOT pass through an opponent's space. Skills and abilities that specifically state otherwise are excepted. If it doesn't say otherwise, then you can't do it. Last time I checked, neither concealment nor invisibility said it. Therefore, per this: you cannot. I don't know how much clearer the RAW can be. NiQil, the same book says you can pass through any square if the occupant allows you to do so. As it's the same book, and both are in text rather than in a table, both are correct. The question is, does cant win over can or the other way around?
TelinArtho 08-27-05, 06:03 PM	@pauper and shaken, not stunned - I have not yet received your tactics. Luckily for you, I can wait until Monday to run it. It would be better to get them sooner though.
Mind Rogue 08-27-05, 06:06 PM	Ah, the old debate of an irresistable force versus an immovable object... On a completely unrelated note, if anyone has any more complaints about either of my fights, they better place it ASAP, because I'm packing and preparing to move back into the dorms.
nightbanegod 08-27-05, 06:07 PM	@Nightbanegod - actually there is one more thing. Vakkor is making money with profession (vermin herding) this week, which is worth (11+10)*3 = 63gp. You should add that to the quest log as well. :rofl: :rofl: Herding them right out of that cave and gettin paid by somebody to do it? MORE POWER TO YA!!!
Tellish_of_Ket 08-27-05, 06:20 PM	NiQil, the same book says you can pass through any square if the occupant allows you to do so. As it's the same book, and both are in text rather than in a table, both are correct. The question is, does cant win over can or the other way around? You cannot. The occupant is NOT allowing the other to pass through. Just because they are invisible, does not mean (by any stretch of the imagination) that they allow others to pass through their square. You occupy THE WHOLE square, not parts of it. Regardless of any semantics or theoretics, by DnD standards, it is simply not possible unless you are 1) Aware of someone coming through you square, and 2) purposefully allowing them to pass. Neither condition is satisfied in this case. So they, "bump". -ToK
Gonbow 08-27-05, 08:03 PM	You cannot. The occupant is NOT allowing the other to pass through. Just because they are invisible, does not mean (by any stretch of the imagination) that they allow others to pass through their square. You occupy THE WHOLE square, not parts of it. Regardless of any semantics or theoretics, by DnD standards, it is simply not possible unless you are 1) Aware of someone coming through you square, and 2) purposefully allowing them to pass. Neither condition is satisfied in this case. So they, "bump". -ToK Oh I wasn't arguing the invisibility point at all. NiQil was stating that invisible or not, you can never ever pass through someone elses square; thus I was pointing out the exception (again) ;) My two cents on the invisibility: 50% chance of failing to bump. I'm drawing this from the detect invisible person action as a standard as opposed to a move; If two invisible people automatically bump, 1 move action serves to canvas several squares at once with no chance to fail; as opposed to a standard action to probe two squares with 50% chance of failure... hmm..
Luni 08-27-05, 08:41 PM	Okay, thinks I don't like about the fight: 1st: I should have got a hide check in the first round, since I have cover. (This could massivly change the fight) 2nd: Balbanes used a lot of arcane scrolls. Those have arcane spell failure. 3rd: When one casts sleep, the target is choosen at the end of the casting. That is why Dameon could run out in round 11 but this also mean that I could just cast it at Balbanes unless he jumps away, to. 4th: I was quite sure that the ground can be used to anchor the web. If you see that diffrent, at least the ground and the pillar Balbanes is standing next to could be used (or even more the pillar and the 5ft stone northeast from him) Minor stuff: 5th: The hide check Dameon got in round 13 looks quite cheep. I would believe that this falls under the "hiding while attacking" and gets -20 penalty. However, I don't know sure, I would accept it. 6th: That Esmara does not use her second invisibility, while fired while blind - looks bad, but okay, we have allready spend enough for a loosing. Quick Response: #1: It is my understanding that you can't hide until you get an action. #2: Balbanes left his armor at home. #3: Balbanes was out of range, but after looking at sleep, it is possible that you could of gotten Dameon in it with a good listen check. #4: You need two opposite surfaces for web. Either 2 walls, or ceiling - floor. #5: I'll take a look into that. #6: Invisibility doesn't stop a glitterdust. Esmara has protection from arrows she would have lasted longer in the fight and has the potential to do more damage. Dameon cast Metaphysical Weapon on his bow, which bypasses your Damage Reduction. It did work against Balbanes though. I'll take a look into it tonight, after I'm done work.
Maraxus 08-27-05, 09:27 PM	Quick Response: #1: It is my understanding that you can't hide until you get an action. #2: Balbanes left his armor at home. #3: Balbanes was out of range, but after looking at sleep, it is possible that you could of gotten Dameon in it with a good listen check. #4: You need two opposite surfaces for web. Either 2 walls, or ceiling - floor. #5: I'll take a look into that. #6: Invisibility doesn't stop a glitterdust. Dameon cast Metaphysical Weapon on his bow, which bypasses your Damage Reduction. It did work against Balbanes though. I'll take a look into it tonight, after I'm done work. #2: Ah, good, I had overlooked this. #6: Oh, you are right. #3+5: Don't make yourself a head about this. Wouldn't change anything. #1+4: I see that diffrent - but I understand your points and I guess, it's open to interpretation. Okay, I just looked at the arena again... almost every place in the arena is somehow between 2 points for the web (pillars or stones). The place balbares stood for example (9, -22) is 20ft away from the pillar (5, -22) and from the 5ft³ stone (12, -25). But still, I think, I accept it. The opponents had a good tactic and simply more firepower. :) But still, about web, I just read it and... These masses must be anchored to two or more solid and diametrically opposed points Aren't "diametrically" and "opposed" synonymus? Or does "diametrical" also include paralell?
TelinArtho 08-27-05, 10:08 PM	@Luni - your 2v2 fight doesn't have one of the character sheets (Esmera(sp?)) - you should probably get that in.
Luni 08-27-05, 10:22 PM	@Luni - your 2v2 fight doesn't have one of the character sheets (Esmera(sp?)) - you should probably get that in. It was there. It was just under Balbanes, as I somehow deleted the [/quote] @Maraxus, Iced, King Uther, Huan: I'll go through the fight again tomorrow. Make sure some of the questions are answered. @KerlanaRayne: I need tactics, or else!
SoulLord 08-27-05, 10:56 PM	Oh I wasn't arguing the invisibility point at all. NiQil was stating that invisible or not, you can never ever pass through someone elses square; thus I was pointing out the exception (again) ;) My two cents on the invisibility: 50% chance of failing to bump. I'm drawing this from the detect invisible person action as a standard as opposed to a move; If two invisible people automatically bump, 1 move action serves to canvas several squares at once with no chance to fail; as opposed to a standard action to probe two squares with 50% chance of failure... hmm.. interesting by the detect invisible text you could theoretically bump into an invisible person but you would not be able to detect that there is an invisible person there unless you probe the square...... Since the point is debatible can we get an elder ruling on this. Caterane?
Luni 08-28-05, 01:06 AM	@Kerlanrayne: Tactics Received!
Tellish_of_Ket 08-28-05, 02:05 AM	Oh I wasn't arguing the invisibility point at all. NiQil was stating that invisible or not, you can never ever pass through someone elses square; thus I was pointing out the exception (again) ;) My two cents on the invisibility: 50% chance of failing to bump. I'm drawing this from the detect invisible person action as a standard as opposed to a move; If two invisible people automatically bump, 1 move action serves to canvas several squares at once with no chance to fail; as opposed to a standard action to probe two squares with 50% chance of failure... hmm.. There is still something you are missing. In detecting invisibility, it is assumed you are visible and the 'invisible' person can see you and is actively avoiding you. If both are unaware, neither can avoid...and hence, the "bump". Since the point is debatible can we get an elder ruling on this. Caterane? I don't see it as debatable. Oh, yeah, i'm an elder too. :D -ToK
xanadu 08-28-05, 03:24 AM	You cannot enter the area hiding. The ground does not count as an achor for web, else you'd be able to web everywhere.
sloisel 08-28-05, 05:50 AM	I don't see it as debatable. Oh, yeah, i'm an elder too. I think it's the third week in a row we have this debate, so I guess you're wrong about the debatability. And it would benefit from a vote, diktat or other resolution. If I can bump into invisible people, maybe I won't go buy myself a helm of see invisible and I'll just use the tactic where I zig-zag across the battlefield. Sebastien Loisel
Usurpator 08-28-05, 08:17 AM	The board software says that I have too many image included in my Battle report. What should I do? Post them here? Post the battle in two separate post? (I added round-by-round snapshots of the scene)
Maraxus 08-28-05, 09:06 AM	You cannot enter the area hiding. The ground does not count as an achor for web, else you'd be able to web everywhere. 1st: Why? Where is this written? 2nd: ...except for people flying in mid-air. Yes, I thought it worked that way. However, I would agree, if it said that at least one point must be higher (so the "two points the web is ancored on" may not be on the same surface). Yes, I think that makes sense. I think the best way to calculate the area of the web spell is like this: -Take the area as a spread (in 3D). -Then take every strand inside this web that goes from one fix surface to another. This should be the web's area. First I wanted to say: -and then take every point on these strands and add the conection strands between those and the surfaces in the area of effect and add those too but this would mean that you quickly have the whole area (on the ground) Thinking about it again, the first version has the same area. And I am quite sure it should be that way. That way spiderwebs work too (well, only smaller and slower ;))
Usurpator 08-28-05, 09:20 AM	The First Horseman vs. The Son of Buttmunch (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7091797&postcount=293) is up. This is my first fight as a Pitlord; comments are welcome. As mentioned above, I added some round-by-round snapshots of the fight, but the board doesn't accept them all. If anyone appreciates it, I will post them here.
Caterane 08-28-05, 09:30 AM	The First Horseman vs. The Son of Buttmunch (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7091797&postcount=293) is up. This is my first fight as a Pitlord; comments are welcome. As mentioned above, I added some round-by-round snapshots of the fight, but the board doesn't accept them all. If anyone appreciates it, I will post them here. :OMG! Wow! Usurpator, that was awesome work!! I'll give you the normal 1 credit for adding maps, and a bonus credit because it is so great! In fact, I will link your fight to the rules as an example on how to receive more than 1° for using maps in fights. PS: You might be able add the remaining maps as attachment. Look at the bottom of the EDIT screen if you see an attachement field. If not then it's probably restricted to GMs only. If this is the case, you can use a new post instead to post the remaining ones. Max is 15 per post.
Faroth 08-28-05, 09:41 AM	@Usurpator: Oh man, the images are super nice. Good Job ;)
Usurpator 08-28-05, 10:07 AM	@Cateran Thank you for the compliments (and the credits)! :) Unfortunatley, I could not add attachments, but I solved the problem by glueing several seperate images together. Now it should display as intended! :D I added the maps just to help visualization. I always like to visualize a battle when I read it, and I alway had a problem that map coordinates didn't translate into something I could imagine easily. Especially in free-for-all or team fights, I usually lost an idea were most gladiators were on the map by round 3. I cannot promise I will add them every fight, though...
SoulLord 08-28-05, 10:11 AM	I think it's the third week in a row we have this debate, so I guess you're wrong about the debatability. And it would benefit from a vote, diktat or other resolution. If I can bump into invisible people, maybe I won't go buy myself a helm of see invisible and I'll just use the tactic where I zig-zag across the battlefield. Sebastien Loisel the point was not so much as if a person looking for an invisible creature could just bump into them. but what would happen if two invisible creatures passed through the same square since tellish is an elder I'll go with his ruling this time until it's sorted out.
nightbanegod 08-28-05, 10:32 AM	@Cateran Thank you for the compliments (and the credits)! :) Unfortunatley, I could not add attachments, but I solved the problem by glueing several seperate images together. Now it should display as intended! :D I added the maps just to help visualization. I always like to visualize a battle when I read it, and I alway had a problem that map coordinates didn't translate into something I could imagine easily. Especially in free-for-all or team fights, I usually lost an idea were most gladiators were on the map by round 3. I cannot promise I will add them every fight, though... DUDE!!! thanks for running the fight, and jeez ... now i feel like my occasionally posted notepad versions of maps are just .... well... 3rd rate :weep: but WOW ... cool beans *edit* hope you dont mind, but i swiped that image you used for the horseman so that now hes got an image in his character sheet... Think you could come with something appropriate for Dalamar? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6773785&postcount=366)
Zerone 08-28-05, 11:36 AM	@ web slingers: Diametrically Opposed = 180° (floor to ceiling, wall to wall, etc.) and no more than 40' apart (Area of Effect). I still cannot see the problem you are having...? *•. Z Edit: Hmmm... Diametrically Opposed could also be a along any plain that is 40' away... Diametric-al-ly in the dictionary: 1. Of, relating to, or along a diameter. 2. Exactly opposite; contrary. Since it has two meanings, I'd have to say that the word 'opposed' designates it as 180° to each other, or the second definition. So while it makes sense that a web could be at a 30° angle between the wall and the ceiling, the PHB states 'floor to ceiling' or 'wall to wall' and the definition of the words tell us that it is 'of, relating to, or along a diameter' and/or 'exactly opposite; contrary' and it is describing the word 'opposed', leads me to believe that it is as it says, and not as logic would be when dealing with the webs of spiders. *•. Z
SoulLord 08-28-05, 12:30 PM	farfinar vs santos is up what luck the fight is next to the perfectly formatted fight above me.... fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7092841&postcount=294)
sloisel 08-28-05, 01:27 PM	@Usurpator: good job with the maps. I think you ran the fight well, but there's a couple of errors starting on round 7. 1) "Because your mount takes you along with it when it moves, a move for your mount also counts as a move for you." http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a, therefore on round 7 FH cannot stand up (the mount's move count as his move action.) 2) In any case, on that round he did not base me (although his mount apparently did) so according to my tactics, I do not withdraw. Instead, on my turn I will attack him, probably taking a 5' step if he is deemed to have cover from the horse (note that as a large creature, I get to determine if he has cover by picking any one of my squares.) As a prone creature, he has -4 to AC (his AC is 21.) 3) When he gets up, it will be a move action that draws an attack of opportunity. This attack of opportunity will be while he's still prone (see the FAQ). Hence, on the one hand I can't trip him again on that AoO, but on the other hand he's at -4 AC for being prone (so his AC is 21.) 4) On the round he does get up, he can only move 5' after getting up, which will not base me. Therefore again, no withdraw. My tactics are to trip attack him when he's not basing me and he's standing. For that I probably need to take a 5' step (depending on where he actually is) because of my reach weapon. 5) On his turn, if he is still standing and moves more than a 5' step, he will draw an attack of opportunity. This attack of opportunity will also be a trip, as per my tactics. In the interest of avoiding an unwarrented AoO, I'm advising you that mounting a horse does not draw an AoO. On the other hand, there ain't nuthin I can do about those rolls! Sebastien Loisel
Tellish_of_Ket 08-28-05, 01:41 PM	I think it's the third week in a row we have this debate, so I guess you're wrong about the debatability. And it would benefit from a vote, diktat or other resolution. If I can bump into invisible people, maybe I won't go buy myself a helm of see invisible and I'll just use the tactic where I zig-zag across the battlefield. Sebastien Loisel If he can see you, he can actively avoid you and let you pass. If you probe (and he can see you), it's a 50/50. If you are BOTH invis and neither is aware or can do anything to avoid the other, you BUMP! Somehow, whenever people reply, they always forget these little tid-bit and instead, just focus on one part ignoring all other points. @ Usurpator: What program did you use to edit the map? Kick-a$$ job btw. -ToK
Mind Rogue 08-28-05, 02:18 PM	If he can see you, he can actively avoid you and let you pass. If you probe (and he can see you), it's a 50/50. If you are BOTH invis and neither is aware or can do anything to avoid the other, you BUMP! Somehow, whenever people reply, they always forget these little tid-bit and instead, just focus on one part ignoring all other points. @ Usurpator: What program did you use to edit the map? Kick-a$$ job btw. -ToK So... if I probe, but he can't see me, I don't suffer the 50% miss chance?
Usurpator 08-28-05, 02:37 PM	@Sloisel Thank you for the compliment on the maps. About your concerns: 1. In round 7 FH and his horse made a single move. During that single move you tripped him. This means that he had a single move left that turn (as did his mount). He used it to stand up, his mount used it to base you. 2. I think I misinterpreted your tactics here, and I agree that in the given situations attacking him would be the better option. Although as I said under 1., he would not be prone at that time. 3. I think this also hangs on him still being prone on your turn, which I argued under 1. is not actually the case. 4. As 3, with the addition that with FH using the fast mount maneuver he would effectively get extra movement, although it doesn't count as a move. 5. I think I made SB take AoO's for movement whenever it was appropriate. On the other hand, there ain't nuthin I can do about those rolls! Sebastien Loisel Surely, luck was not on your side. On the other hand, a touch attack would only be succesfull 40% of the time. Touching AND winning the opposed Str check would come down to about 35% of the time. Touching, tripping and damaging him with the follow-up would be like 12%. Which are decent, but hardly overwhelming odds.
xanadu 08-28-05, 02:40 PM	indri vs. Kota (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7093743) is up. Pixies and high level fights can be confusing, probably a good idea to check for errors, though I dont think the result will change. Something else, high level fights take up lots of charctaers (50,000 limit), some of your character sheets need not be so pretty (ehem Caterane ;) ) @ Maraxus I am not sure where it is written but the only pre-fight actions allowed are those which can be active for 16 hours. Youe enter the arena as is, not in a hidden state. Ask Caterane or Pitlords where this is written, ut this rule has been covered before.
Luni 08-28-05, 02:50 PM	Lortavos vs Goran vs Omo-Na is up Here: (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7093888&postcount=296) I hate throwing in the towel for people, but Psionic Leviate lasts way too long.
Luni 08-28-05, 02:53 PM	indri vs. Kota (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7093743) is up. Pixies and high level fights can be confusing, probably a good idea to check for errors, though I dont think the result will change. Something else, high level fights take up lots of charctaers (50,000 limit), some of your character sheets need not be so pretty (ehem Caterane ;) ) Blightlord can't Wildshape into a dire bat. Dire Bats are large, so Blight lord would have to be level 8. He is only level 7. Shame on you Caterane!
Gonbow 08-28-05, 03:09 PM	Lortavos vs Goran vs Omo-Na is up Here: (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7093888&postcount=296) I hate throwing in the towel for people, but Psionic Leviate lasts way too long. Don't worry about Luni; The surrender is wholly justified. I obv need to get Lorvatos a +50 jump check to deal with flying willinillies ;) Or a ranged weapon... but I don't think there are any options in that direction, aside from a level of psion or psychic warrior (which I was thinking about anyways).
sloisel 08-28-05, 03:22 PM	1. In round 7 FH and his horse made a single move. During that single move you tripped him. This means that he had a single move left that turn (as did his mount). He used it to stand up, his mount used it to base you. Ah yes, I see what you're saying. I think that works. 2. I think I misinterpreted your tactics here, and I agree that in the given situations attacking him would be the better option. Although as I said under 1., he would not be prone at that time. Right, so could you fix that bit? Have me trip him instead of withdrawing on round 8? Sebastien Loisel
xanadu 08-28-05, 03:26 PM	Blightlord can't Wildshape into a dire bat. Dire Bats are large, so Blight lord would have to be level 8. He is only level 7. Shame on you Caterane! Shame on me for not picking that up. Hmm. Indri has 100 cold iron arrows and could have followed Rodra on foot. His attacks are a +12. In whatever form the Blightlord took, he would have still been able to entangle and mud the Sianghams. I will run a counterfactual with Indri on foot.
Gonbow 08-28-05, 03:39 PM	farfinar vs santos is up what luck the fight is next to the perfectly formatted fight above me.... fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7092841&postcount=294) A few notes: Please increase Santos' gold award by 80, as per his Profession skill. (Nitpicky, but I HAVE to get this in my fights or I get violations down the line.) He uses a tattoo of skate, not a powerstone of skate (no psychic ability for Santos; Yet.) Re: Grappling vrs Flurry; I was told that monks can flurry grapple checks. I've seen it ruled that way on this board MANY times, and while IMHO they cannot... they can here. So I would have gotten the best of both worlds, which would only have made the battle end sooner.
Mind Rogue 08-28-05, 03:42 PM	Don't worry about Luni; The surrender is wholly justified. I obv need to get Lorvatos a +50 jump check to deal with flying willinillies ;) Or a ranged weapon... but I don't think there are any options in that direction, aside from a level of psion or psychic warrior (which I was thinking about anyways). That's actually not quite as hard to do as you would think. A potion of jump [+10], tatoo of skate [+6], speed of thought [+4], one level of barbarian [+4] and you already have a +24. At third level, you can have 6 ranks, so thats +30, 18 str is +4, rage gives another +2, full orc for another 4 str to get another +2, is +38. If you have arcane caster prowess, you can use a scroll of expeditious retreat instead of skate for another +6 for +44, while run gets another +4. With an average roll, that nets you a 58 allowing you to jump 13 1/2 ft, which puts the levitator right in reach of your greataxe. Just the perfect thing for that Orc Barbarian/Psychic Warrior/Sorcerer. Alternatively, take a ride on your light warhorse. It has a speed of 60, giving it +12 on jump checks, run feat (+4), and a str of 16 (+3), plus you could specially train it for jumping to give it +6 ranks for a total of +25, which averages to about an 8 ft jump, more if you cast skate on it or you are a druid and use longstrider. On top of this, your composite is a large creature, meaning you occupy a 10 ft square, so you will generally have an 18 ft verticle reach, which you can stretch a little bit if you either get lucky or you carry a reach weapon. Either of these options grants you essentially one shot at the unprepared levitator (since after that he will levitate even higher and out of reach. Of course, since he has very poor maneuverability once Levitating, you could always run and hide until the power wears off.
Gonbow 08-28-05, 03:59 PM	That's actually not quite as hard to do as you would think. A potion of jump [+10], tatoo of skate [+6], speed of thought [+4], one level of barbarian [+4] and you already have a +24. At third level, you can have 6 ranks, so thats +30, 18 str is +4, rage gives another +2, full orc for another 4 str to get another +2, is +38. If you have arcane caster prowess, you can use a scroll of expeditious retreat instead of skate for another +6 for +44, while run gets another +4. With an average roll, that nets you a 58 allowing you to jump 13 1/2 ft, which puts the levitator right in reach of your greataxe. Just the perfect thing for that Orc Barbarian/Psychic Warrior/Sorcerer. Alternatively, take a ride on your light warhorse. It has a speed of 60, giving it +12 on jump checks, run feat (+4), and a str of 16 (+3), plus you could specially train it for jumping to give it +6 ranks for a total of +25, which averages to about an 8 ft jump, more if you cast skate on it or you are a druid and use longstrider. On top of this, your composite is a large creature, meaning you occupy a 10 ft square, so you will generally have an 18 ft verticle reach, which you can stretch a little bit if you either get lucky or you carry a reach weapon. Either of these options grants you essentially one shot at the unprepared levitator (since after that he will levitate even higher and out of reach. Of course, since he has very poor maneuverability once Levitating, you could always run and hide until the power wears off. Oh yeah, there are many a ways to get insane jump checks. Being a thri-kreen is a good start. Unforunately, scrolls and power-stones are forever out of Lorvatos' reach (Well, scrolls def, power-stones... Theorhetically, if I had them sowed into some kind of paw-mitt... maybe?) along with most of the options you suggested ;) The jumping orc barbarian is impressive, but you should check out the Dragoon build in the CO... F'n scary! 6d8 +2d6 at level 6 once a round... And it just gets better once they pick up an item of Psionic Lion's Charge.
xanadu 08-28-05, 04:22 PM	Indri vs. Kota counterfactual: Deviations are bolded Round 2: Blightlord commands Rodra to grapple and move down. Round 3: Blightlord wildshapes into a deinoychus Round 4: Indri taps tattoo of skate to get needed speed. Round 7: Blightlord is roughly 20 feet from Rodra, entangles siaghams. Indri goes total defense behind rock for cover. Takes no HP loss. Round 8: Kota need to move to (6, -13) to firebolt Rodra and the druid. He cant get Indri so doesn't expend focus. Rodra still grapples. Blight faerie fires Indri electricity retort Round 9: Kota draws stone Rodra wins grapple, brings Kota 20 feet down. Blight muds the sianghams Indri force screen Round 10: Kota Kills Rodra (would have expended focus if had it), flys up. Indri divine might arrow miss. Blight casts produce flame miss Round 11: Kota needs to know which Indri is real, shoots x-bow at real Indri (18+12+1=31) miss. Determines he'll never hit so will take chance next round. Indri divine arrow hit, 17 damage Blight flame miss. Round 12: Kota targets same Indri with fire bolt [SR: 9+5=14 miss] Indri divine arrow hit, 17 damage. Blight flame miss. Round 13: Kota tries another fire bolt. Blightlord takes no damage because he isn't targeted. Indri divine arrow miss. Blight flame hit, [SR: 10+7=17 fail] Round 14: Out of PP, Kota has an idea. Grabs 5 bolts and drops them to the ground, including the 2 acidic ones. The Blightlord immediately casts entangle on the bolts. Indri arrow miss. Round 15: Kota draws crystal shard stone and aims at Indri [she still is going for the same one as way back in round 11.] Range touched 1! Blightlord flame hit, [SR: 1+7=8 fail] Indri arrow miss. Round 16: Kota realizes he hasn't even detmined which is the real Indri and wishes to not to expend her inventory in a futile fight especially with Indri having 94 more cold iron arrows. Surrenders. As the results dont change except for a few extra expendatures, I'm sure both gladiators will accept the orginal result. Counter-counterfactual. Kota tries to regain focus before energy bolts. Kota concentration: 6+8=14 fail, 20!+8=28 success. Extra Indri arrows: hit 12! damage, miss Round 12 bolt bypasses SR, Indri reflex save: 17+ alot, takes 10 damage. Blightlord now cures Indri with wand rather than throwing ineffective flames. Kota concentration: 4+8=fail Blight cure: 4+1=5 Indri arrow: miss Indri HP: 42 Kota concentration: 15+8=success Blight cure: 2+1=3 Indri arrow: miss Indri HP: 45 Kota firebolt again bypasses Indri SR and gets blightlord too. Indri reflex save: 18+ alot, takes 13 damage. Indri HP: 32 Blightlord HP: 8 Indri wildsurges vigor: [safe] Indri HPs 47 (max lol) Blightlord cure mod: 19. Blight HPs 27. Goto Round 15: Kota draws crystal shard stone and aims at Indri [she still is going for the same one as way back in round 11.] Range touched 1! Blightlord flame hit, [SR: 1+7=8 fail] Indri arrow miss. I still say Kota surrenders Indri wins this fight regardless of the permutations involved.
Usurpator 08-28-05, 04:31 PM	Right, so could you fix that bit? Have me trip him instead of withdrawing on round 8? If your really want.... All that would do (since I am keeping the rolls for the same actions), is for your trip attack to hit in round 7 instead of in 8 as an AoO, you would again fail the opposed Str check then and then do a 5 ft. step backwards as you said. In turn 8 he fast mounts and then does a 5 ft. step in your direction instead of a charge, attacks, crits you, end of story. To me it seems a bit of a waste of time to redo the descriptions and the map pictures for almost exactly the same result. As you said before: there ain't nuthin I can do about those rolls.
Faroth 08-28-05, 04:43 PM	My fight ins't finished yet :weep: Where are you McJarvis? xD
Snommelp 08-28-05, 05:18 PM	My fight ins't finished yet :weep: Where are you McJarvis? xD Join the club... two gladiators, both active, neither of which has fought yet. The deadline isn't until tonight, though, so don't give up hope. The deadline is tonight, right?
Luni 08-28-05, 05:19 PM	Join the club... two gladiators, both active, neither of which has fought yet. The deadline isn't until tonight, though, so don't give up hope. The deadline is tonight, right? Unfortunately no. Pitlords must post fights due Tuesday 8 AM GMT. Failure to do so results in late penalties (basically -2°). I am also waiting on a fight.
Usurpator 08-28-05, 05:43 PM	To add to the chorus, I'm also waiting for two fights. On the other hand, the fights may have turned into 20+ round thrillers! Its just too bad that I think I won't have much time to look at fights the next couple of days.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-28-05, 05:49 PM	Yeah, and I haven't heard from Ellorian if he's still running the extra fight or not. -ToK
nightbanegod 08-28-05, 05:55 PM	Join the club... two gladiators, both active, neither of which has fought yet. The deadline isn't until tonight, though, so don't give up hope. The deadline is tonight, right? aww .... you should be much pleased with the results so i dont want to hear any complaining about the ifght not being up yet... well here it is Grik vs Methos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7094164&postcount=297) what do you think now? enough gore for ya?
Snommelp 08-28-05, 07:51 PM	aww .... you should be much pleased with the results so i dont want to hear any complaining about the ifght not being up yet... well here it is Grik vs Methos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7094164&postcount=297) what do you think now? enough gore for ya? Thanks, nightbanegod. Me likey. Also, thanks for the reminder about strength and a half for two handed weapons. I'm gonna hafta fix that.
Kaigan 08-28-05, 07:52 PM	@My gladiators: Your fights will be up tomorrow morning. That means 7-10 am PST. Sorry for the late posting but i'm on vacation at my girlfriend's. I'll be back to normal time for next pairings. And I'm really excited too. Yay! I get to move back into my dorms. Kaigan
King Uther 08-28-05, 09:36 PM	@ xanadu and Caterane I thought it was against the rules to change spells. At least I should be notified for tactic writing purposes. That is totally unfair. Also, I can pay someone 1 gp to carry those sianghams. Taking anything I want in the arena should be no problem. How long it takes me to get there isn't an issue, as the discussion with Jindl's ghost shows. PM me about this, because Caterane knows better.
sloisel 08-29-05, 12:34 AM	If your really want.... All that would do (since I am keeping the rolls for the same actions), is for your trip attack to hit in round 7 instead of in 8 as an AoO, you would again fail the opposed Str check then and then do a 5 ft. step backwards as you said. In turn 8 he fast mounts and then does a 5 ft. step in your direction instead of a charge, attacks, crits you, end of story. I guess you're right, it's fine the way it is. Thanks! Sebastien Loisel
xanadu 08-29-05, 01:09 AM	@ xanadu and Caterane I thought it was against the rules to change spells. At least I should be notified for tactic writing purposes. That is totally unfair. Also, I can pay someone 1 gp to carry those sianghams. Taking anything I want in the arena should be no problem. How long it takes me to get there isn't an issue, as the discussion with Jindl's ghost shows. PM me about this, because Caterane knows better. Utter - Read your PM box. This was me, not Caterane.
Gonbow 08-29-05, 02:05 AM	Daeran vrs Maylee is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7098723&postcount=298). Many apologizes with the delay in getting this up. I thought i'd have more time over the weekend, but college is anything but slow, even when your not in classes! I'll get started on the team battle ASAP tomorrow morning.
Ellorion Saenelle 08-29-05, 03:33 AM	Kraegin vs. Czernobog here http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7081135&postcount=290
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 09:21 AM	@Gonbow - couple of problems that could make a difference: Regarding whether to save the spell slot for enlarge or not - since I specifically mention it being wanted for melee - I would say I am clear that I want to reserve a spell slot for it. Double moving to close instead of firing the second MM would be much better. Enlarge makes a big difference when people want to withdraw - attacks of opportunity when they pass through the 2nd threatened square - this is why it is important. In round 10, Maylee draws (Move action) and drinks (standard action) a potion of CLW and then moves. There's too many actions here. Same problem in round 15. In round 15, when she heals 5, you have it marked in the summary that she has 16 hp instead of 11.
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 09:36 AM	@Ellorian - couple of things: First of all, summoning spells take a full round to cast. So in round 1, I start casting and just before my action in round 2, I finish. Also, in round 2, when you have me recall the spell and then cast it - this is specifically not what I have in my tactics: On the following round, drop the Rod. If I see him, pick up the Crossbow and ready to fire if he starts casting a spell. If I don't, draw the Pearl of Power (2nd) and recall the Summon Monster II. Beyond here, it will depend on how close he is. If I see him, but he is not in range of his spells (130ft), simply ready to fire. Once I have fired the crossbow, on my next action cast Hold Person on him and either (if he saves) move to cover or (if he fails his save) move to kill. If I have moved to cover, reload the crossbow. Then cast Summon Monster II again (1d3 hawks again). I'm assuming by this point he'll try casting another hold on me, so ready to fire if he tries to. The reason why this matters is my summons don't last too long, plus I wanted to save 2 spell levels for a return Hold person after trying to disrupt his first hold person attempt. In this situation, he casts Hold Person, I try to disrupt (I fail my save, but break out before he is on me), he tries to cast again and fails, now I retaliate with my own hold person. Also, the rewards for the fight are wrong. Kraegin and Czernobog are both 4th level. Czernobog's horse counts as a 12.5% xp/gp penalty for him, and a bonus for me. The base amount for the winner is 1200/1200 and 400/400 for the loser. Lastly, the rod doesn't have charges really, it can be used 3 times per day - so it doesn't need to be included in the summary. /d
Altaris13 08-29-05, 09:46 AM	Hey people! The hurricane knocked out my cable, and thusly my internet. I'm only able to access the net at work right now. I need someone to take over both of my fights as I will not be able to run them. I can forward tactics that I've received so far. Vivi (Dr.Funk) vs The Dire Flame (Iced): Altaris Nexa (Usurpator) vs Sdentch (TheMagister): Altaris I have received tactics for: Usurpator (Nexa) TheMagister (Sdentch) Dr. Funk (Vivi) I have NOT received tactics from Iced for The Dire Flame. Please and Thank You.
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 09:49 AM	I'll take Nexa vs Sdentch. I'd take the other one as well, but without tactics for Iced and the fact that Dr. Funk is my brother in law, I'd rather avoid any possibility of "favored" talk. If no one takes it though, I can try. Also, I have not received tactics from Pauper for Alac, so I am running the fight without his tactics. I gave him two extra days, and I know he has been online over that time (checked his profile and he was even on today), so I feel I have been overly fair in this respect. /d
Altaris13 08-29-05, 10:08 AM	Great, thanks Telin. You want them emailed or PM'd is OK?
Meek Head 08-29-05, 10:08 AM	Kraegin vs. Czernobog here http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7081135&postcount=290 There are several errors and questions in this fight. I guess it is up to TelinArtho if he wants some changes, especially the sleep, as it is a full round cast. He'd get 1 attack to try and disrupt my spell. Yet, there are many questions about what my character did and the actions he took; what happened to my horse attacking, my horse's movement is not a move action for me, and she can move much farther than I, etc. Edit: Whoops, just noticed TelinArtho's post. :)
Usurpator 08-29-05, 10:13 AM	@Cerebus13 Thank you for running the fight, no idea it would last that long! My apologies if the tactics were somewhat unclear, I'll try to be more specific next time. Sundering her bow at the end was an acceptable option, but using the shocking grasp from the scroll would have been good as well, since most buffs were out and Inspiration was not there. Very funny that the familiar was the only one to damage Wlandra! Now over to the issues and nitpicks: In round 5 Maeril and Inspiration need to save against the 2nd entangle spell. Both save against a DC of 11, I think that should be 14, as scrolls use the same DC's as casting a spell from memory. This would mean Inspiration would have been stuck, but Maeril free. In round 6 Wlandra apparently commands my trusty steed Inspiration to approach her. This spell should have fizzled, since my steed does not and probably will never speak common (or any other language). Command is a language-dependent spell, and you need to speak the target's language for it to work. If she would have cast it at Maeril, he would have made the save with the 6 that Inspiration rolled (that's why I wasn't afraid of command spells with +10 on my Will save). As a result of that command Maeril, Inspiration and Snaggle were all stuck in the entangle for the next 9 rounds while their buff spells ran out. So I do think this error had a major impact on rest of the battle. What is your opinion on this?
Altaris13 08-29-05, 10:37 AM	AERYN VS KRONOS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7081029&postcount=289) all things considered, a remarkably boring fight ... and with one TICKED off slab of landscape Freaking A! What a waste of resources! Can I move to change die rollers? Invisibile Castle has it out for me. :weep: Small side note that doesn't change anything: My ranged atk modifiers while large should be +5, not +4. Big side note that should change something: Why did I try to break free of the entangle? In my tactics, I said to keep firing ranged if my opponent was doing the same. Plan C: If Entangled - Use double move action to Stow the Chain & Draw the Bow, then resort to ranged combat. If he or the wolf bases me while entangled, drop the bow as free action & draw the chain again.
SoulLord 08-29-05, 10:43 AM	A few notes: Please increase Santos' gold award by 80, as per his Profession skill. (Nitpicky, but I HAVE to get this in my fights or I get violations down the line.) He uses a tattoo of skate, not a powerstone of skate (no psychic ability for Santos; Yet.) Re: Grappling vrs Flurry; I was told that monks can flurry grapple checks. I've seen it ruled that way on this board MANY times, and while IMHO they cannot... they can here. So I would have gotten the best of both worlds, which would only have made the battle end sooner. Gold increased, skate corrected As for flury grapple I don't know what your source is but from the SRD. When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons So if you want to flurry while in a grapple it's ok but you dont get an extra grapple check for damage with a flurry.
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 10:52 AM	@Altaris, PM is fine. Another fight is up: Alac vs Shan vs Juntar Dunecrosser (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7100818)
Gonbow 08-29-05, 11:21 AM	Gold increased, skate corrected As for flury grapple I don't know what your source is but from the SRD. So if you want to flurry while in a grapple it's ok but you dont get an extra grapple check for damage with a flurry. Like I said, IMHO (in my humble opinion), the rules are clear that you can only flurry while performing a full attack (which you cant do while grappling), but it has been ruled several times here that monks can get an extra grapple check at a -2 penalty. <shrugs>
Altaris13 08-29-05, 11:26 AM	@Telin: K, you'll have them shortly. @Nightbane: after further review... My Atk modifier was only +1, not +4 as you had it, and not +5 like I thought. :( +0 Dx, -1 size +3 BAB, +1 Ma, -2 entangled So don't worry about adjusting anything. EDIT: TActics sent to Telin for Nexa & Sdentch.
Luni 08-29-05, 11:38 AM	Vivi (Dr.Funk) vs The Dire Flame (Iced): Altaris I'll take it Altaris. Tactics or no Tactics, I'll run it this afternoon or tonight.
NiQil 08-29-05, 11:39 AM	Like I said, IMHO (in my humble opinion), the rules are clear that you can only flurry while performing a full attack (which you cant do while grappling), but it has been ruled several times here that monks can get an extra grapple check at a -2 penalty. <shrugs> I'll do some hunting, but I want to say that this was covered in either an errata or the FAQ. Unfortunately, being at work, I cannot check either of them as we do not have a zip program installed on our work systems, so I cannot access them. But if someone else does, that would be where I would start checking. I'm going to check the SRD now, as this will also have a bearing on a new character of mine. But Gonbow is correct in the fact that this is how it has been done in other battles here in the past.
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 11:40 AM	@Altaris13 - tactics received for Sdentch (TheMagister) and Nexa (Usurpator) Running the fight now.
Gonbow 08-29-05, 11:47 AM	@Gonbow - couple of problems that could make a difference: Regarding whether to save the spell slot for enlarge or not - since I specifically mention it being wanted for melee - I would say I am clear that I want to reserve a spell slot for it. Double moving to close instead of firing the second MM would be much better. Enlarge makes a big difference when people want to withdraw - attacks of opportunity when they pass through the 2nd threatened square - this is why it is important. In round 10, Maylee draws (Move action) and drinks (standard action) a potion of CLW and then moves. There's too many actions here. Same problem in round 15. In round 15, when she heals 5, you have it marked in the summary that she has 16 hp instead of 11. Magic Missile vrs Enlarge: No, it's not really clear. It's not even clear that you want to do something other than stand in place after you fire the crossbow bolt at Maylee =/ Re round 10: Correct, I gave her an extra movement; my bad! I'll correct this. Re round 15: Also correct, I cut/pasted the condition from the last round and increased the HP by 5, instead of keeping it the same. In any case, changes made.
Altaris13 08-29-05, 01:43 PM	I'll take it Altaris. Tactics or no Tactics, I'll run it this afternoon or tonight. Great Luni, thanks. I'll pm you Vivi's tactics now.
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 01:52 PM	Here's the Nexa vs Sdentch fight. Nexa vs Sdentch (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7102442) Not a great way to end, but it happens I guess...
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 01:56 PM	@Gonbow regarding clarity of tactics. I still disagree about the clarity of action I wished to take regarding the Enlarge spell. However, since I didn't specifically say "save 1 slot for Enlarge" - I'm going to concede the issue. I don't agree, but it doesn't mean that I'm right. @Ellorion regarding clarity of tactics. Same thing. I disagree that I'm not clear about what I wanted to do with regard to the summoning. However, since I didn't specifically say "if I don't see him after my first summon spell, don't cast another one until I do" or even "save 2 spell levels for hold person" - I'm going to concede the issue. Again, I don't agree, but it doesn't mean that I'm right. /d
Cerebus13 08-29-05, 02:11 PM	@Cerebus13 Thank you for running the fight, no idea it would last that long! My apologies if the tactics were somewhat unclear, I'll try to be more specific next time. Sundering her bow at the end was an acceptable option, but using the shocking grasp from the scroll would have been good as well, since most buffs were out and Inspiration was not there. Very funny that the familiar was the only one to damage Wlandra! Now over to the issues and nitpicks: In round 5 Maeril and Inspiration need to save against the 2nd entangle spell. Both save against a DC of 11, I think that should be 14, as scrolls use the same DC's as casting a spell from memory. This would mean Inspiration would have been stuck, but Maeril free. In round 6 Wlandra apparently commands my trusty steed Inspiration to approach her. This spell should have fizzled, since my steed does not and probably will never speak common (or any other language). Command is a language-dependent spell, and you need to speak the target's language for it to work. If she would have cast it at Maeril, he would have made the save with the 6 that Inspiration rolled (that's why I wasn't afraid of command spells with +10 on my Will save). As a result of that command Maeril, Inspiration and Snaggle were all stuck in the entangle for the next 9 rounds while their buff spells ran out. So I do think this error had a major impact on rest of the battle. What is your opinion on this?Scrolls do not use the same DCs as spells cast from memory. They use the minimum ability modifier required to cast that particular spell. Check one of the Rules of the Game articles about using magical items. You are correct about Command being language dependant...I never noticed that particular descriptor for spells before. I'll edit the fight again from that point on and see what happens.
Kaigan 08-29-05, 02:18 PM	My first fight is up. Go check out: Archie Longbow (LongArcher) vs Minesbiggarinyers (Altaris13) Please check for errors.
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 02:38 PM	TheMagister sent some comments about the Nexa vs Sdentch fight: You have my attack boni all wrong during the full attacks. Normal TWF boni are +6 sword and +6 shield. When raged it's +8/+8. I'm wondering if you messed up on my grapple checks, too... Also, in round 6, since you can fasten your shield during the move as a free action if you have a BAB of +1 or greater, Sdentch should have been able to charge. Somehow, between round 9 and round 10, I lost 12 HP instead of just 6. Lastly, my grapple damage with spiked gauntlets and spiked armor should be 1d3 (gauntlet) + 1d6 (armor spikes) + 7 (24 strength). I think I knocked her out a round earlier instead of leaving her disabled. Check my findings... TM Here was my response: Actually, I did forget about the rage bonus when I rolled at Invisible castle, but I then added them in on the fight (you'll notice that several attacks have modifiers with them that were not noted in IC). In round 6, you didn't charge because you did not start with LOS nor was it a straight line (you had to move around a column). This is why you didn't charge, not because of the shield. In round 10, your rage expired, and you took 6 damage from an attack. The damage you did was 1d6 (spikes) +5(normal)+2 (rage) for the spikes. For the guantlet, I accidentally did 1d4+2+1 instead of 1d3+2+1 - so actually, you have a chance of doing less damage. If you wanted to grapple for damage it would've only been 1d6+1d3+7 - so the way I did it (according to the way your tactics say), you did more damage. In the future - send these issues directly to the FotW thread. This is both for consistency and also to reduce my number of PMs, thanks. /d
TheMagister 08-29-05, 03:46 PM	Also, if Sdentch killed her, and her pet killed Sdentch, isn't that a tie? She's just as dead as Sdentch is... Wondering... TM
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 03:51 PM	On that point, I'm not sure. I think I've seen other occurances of this kind of thing, where both players are dying, but one would expire before the other - and I believe that it was not a tie. I saw a thread in the old tavern (Tavern II I believe) where someone was commenting that a tie would occur if both players were in the negatives and on the same count each round, if neither of them stabilized. I'll fish out the post for posterity. EDIT - here it is: Discussion on Ties (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=348562&postcount=22) /d
TheMagister 08-29-05, 04:34 PM	The damage you did was 1d6 (spikes) +5(normal)+2 (rage) for the spikes. For the guantlet, I accidentally did 1d4+2+1 instead of 1d3+2+1 - so actually, you have a chance of doing less damage. If you wanted to grapple for damage it would've only been 1d6+1d3+7 - so the way I did it (according to the way your tactics say), you did more damage. /d The [spiked] gauntlet [1d4 damage] was in my primary hand...why the sorry extra damage? I think that you're confused on what armor spikes provide to a grappling combatant (this isn't in my best interests to bring this up, btw). Now, I don't know if a two-weapon fighter can TWFight while grappled like a monk can flurry while grappled (I don't think they can). Regardless, the armor spiked allow a grappling combatant to deal an "extra 1d6" damage with a successful attack while in a grapple. So, either: I make one attack at a -4 because that's all that my +3 BAB will allow. I deal 1d4 (spiked gauntlet) + 1d6 (armor spikes) + 5 (normal str) + 2 (rage mod). or... You let me TWF during the grapple. I make one attack with my primary hand dealing 1d4 (spiked gauntlet) + 1d6 (armor spikes) + 5 (normal str) + 2 (rage mod), and another attack with my off hand dealing 1d4 (spiked light shield) + 1d6 (spiked armor) + 2 (1/2 normal str) + 1 (1/2 rage mod). If it's the first option (which I'm thinking it should be) then I'm not even close to knocking her out. If it's the second option, she's unconscious before the 11th round. (I only submit the second option because of the "monks can flurry while in a grapple" ruling here in the CoCo. It's definately NOT allowed according to the RAW.) Read up on it. TM
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 05:15 PM	Yup - you're right, I did do 2-weapon fighting instead of the right way. Alright, so now you need to succeed at an opposed grapple check for damage (to deal 1d3+1d6+5+2 dmg - which will be less than the damage I rolled up before (1d6+5+2, 1d4+2+1). I'll correct it in the fight, even though it won't change the result or anything. EDIT - Fixed. Unfortunately, it is even worse than that - you don't succeed at your opposed roll, so you don't even cause any damage... /d
NiQil 08-29-05, 05:33 PM	I'll get started on the team battle ASAP tomorrow morning. :waits:
Usurpator 08-29-05, 05:53 PM	Here's the Nexa vs Sdentch fight. Nexa vs Sdentch (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7102442) Not a great way to end, but it happens I guess... Thank you for picking up the fight. Whew! That was close! He had a few lucky rolls in round 10, but then it totally turned around in round 11 when the dice utterly favored me. Can anyone tell me what is currently the official ruling of using a flurry in a grapple here? Because I read here first that flurry gave you two grapple checks, but in my fight is see Nexa performing only one check each round. It doesn't matter to me either way how it is ruled, as long as its clear what the rule is, because my tactics were partially based on the supposed superiority that the 'flurry-grapple' would give me. With only one grapple check it was suddenly a lot more dangerous than I expected..... Another question about entangle as well. I often see people making double moves after breaking out of an Entangle. The SRD states: The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check. So this is a special action, after which you cannot take other actions (such as moves or double moves). And half normal speed is, I think, half your base speed. Or am I reading something incorrectly? One last grapple remark. The SRD says: 'You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons.' Sdentch attacks me with both a spiked gauntlet and armor spikes in round 10. Is that possible? Edit: missed the previous replies, did not see the edited fight yet...
TheMagister 08-29-05, 06:00 PM	Yup - you're right, I did do 2-weapon fighting instead of the right way. Alright, so now you need to succeed at an opposed grapple check for damage (to deal 1d3+1d6+5+2 dmg - which will be less than the damage I rolled up before (1d6+5+2, 1d4+2+1). I'll correct it in the fight, even though it won't change the result or anything. EDIT - Fixed. Unfortunately, it is even worse than that - you don't succeed at your opposed roll, so you don't even cause any damage... /d Wow...another misunderstanding. Okay, one of the options when you're grappling is to take a -4 to your attack roll to attack with a light weapon. That's what I wanted to do in a grapple because there's no opposed roll to make...I'd hardly ever beat her grapple check, but I'll stand a decent chance of hitting her AC. The damage from the attack would be 1d4 (spiked gauntlet - a light weapon) + 1d6 (armor spikes) + 7 (+5 normal strength + 2 rage mod). I did notice one other thing. Silverfur couldn't flank Sdentch because Sdentch had no-one threatening her opposite of Silverfur. Nexa doesn't threaten any squares around her when she's grappled unless she takes a -20 on her grapple check to hold Sdentch in one hand (not recommended). Nexa and Sdentch occupy the same space when they are grappling. This means that on round 11 that Silverfur would NOT hit Sdentch's AC of 15 [20 - 3 (lose dex) - 2 (raging)]. That's 7 whole damage!! [/sarcasm] Sdentch would get to damage Nexa twice [once at end of round 10 and once at middle of round 11] before she gets grappled to death because Nexa delayed to allow Silverfur to attack. Silverfur would get one chance to damage Sdentch at the beginning of round 11, but stands a good chance of missing or just not dealing enough damage to drop her. THAT could actually change things. TM
TheMagister 08-29-05, 06:04 PM	Thank you for picking up the fight. Whew! That was close! He had a few lucky rolls in round 10, but then it totally turned around in round 11 when the dice utterly favored me. Darned mutt danged near chewed straight through me... You're right about the full-round action to break free of the entangle, though. I made my next save, but it would have been one more round of sling-fire for ya. And you got SO lucky with the dice on those two full attack rounds. Imagine, rolling 3 times and getting 3, 3, and 5. Sdentch can't win for losing... Good fight tho. TM
Usurpator 08-29-05, 06:06 PM	Scrolls do not use the same DCs as spells cast from memory. They use the minimum ability modifier required to cast that particular spell. Check one of the Rules of the Game articles about using magical items. Really had no idea. The SRD just says: A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. I always interpreted exactly to mean just that, exactly. Wands, potions and wondrous items however.... Guess you learn something new every day. You are correct about Command being language dependant...I never noticed that particular descriptor for spells before. I'll edit the fight again from that point on and see what happens. That would be most appreciated! But I can also can understand if you don't have the time to do this anymore.
TheMagister 08-29-05, 06:12 PM	Absolutely the LAST thing. I didn't get to use the "demoralize opponent" option when I raged... TM
Cerebus13 08-29-05, 08:36 PM	Wlandra vs. Maeril fight edited here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7099931&postcount=299). The result ended up changing because Wlandra completely exhausted her inventory of various spells and items.
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 09:05 PM	Okay, there's been a few more enlightening comments about the Nexa vs Sdentch fight. I'll edit them in full tomorrow (because I don't expect the result to change), but I'll comment on what I see here: (Usurpator) 1. First off, I'm not real comfortable with the grapple rules. I never have been and I've been playing for 21 years. I've never liked them, I don't know that I ever will. However, if there's a mistake with it, I want to understand where they are. As far as the whole flurry for grapple checks, I agree that you can do them, but I just didn't. Why? - because I didn't pay particular attention to them. Not an excuse, I was probably being lazy about it. When I edit the fight, I'll add in the flurried grapples. As it is, your opposed rolls were +14 vs +10. By making it flurried, you are looking at +12/+12 vs +10/+10. 2. On entangle, I clearly screwed up - all it does is give you an extra round of firing your sling, so it won't help your opponent any, but since I like to get these things fixed, I'll include it in the changes. 3. As you've already noticed, I've fixed the TWF section. (TheMagister) 1. Regarding Attacking with a weapon vs grappling for damage - let's clear it up. If you had chosen attacking your opponent, you'd take a -4 to your attack and deal 1d4+5+2 damage. No 1d6 for the armor spikes, because they only add damage when you grapple. If you wanted to use the armor spikes for damage on an attack, you could do 1d6+5+2, but then you wouldn't have the spiked guantlet. Its one or the other - not both. If you grapple for damage (which by the way, your grapple bonus is +10 vs +14 for your opponent - so it is not hopeless), you get 1d3+1d6+5+2. 2. You are right about the flanking while grappled. I'll change that too when I get into it. 3. I'm not sure I understand that you think Sdentch will get an attack in before Nexa because she delayed. She only delayed enough to let Silverfur go (which she only did because she was disabled - now that she's not, she doesn't need to (and wouldn't because she's not disabled)). I only left this in the fight on the revision to keep the fight mostly intact from the original. Regardless, Sdentch still goes after both Nexa and Silverfur. 4. You will never get to use the "demoralize opponent" option in CoCo - just accept it.
Malither76 08-29-05, 09:41 PM	Milo Tad vs Yasha is up
LongArcher 08-29-05, 11:39 PM	My first fight is up. Go check out: Archie Longbow (LongArcher) vs Minesbiggarinyers (Altaris13) Please check for errors. This is an absolute OUTRAGE! I just sit there not moving, not thinking, not doing anyting until I die? C'mon please don't say that's the end result? I sent you a pm and an email saying to alterself into ice mephit after realizing I an imp was tiny. Then I come home to find you pm'd me saying I couldn't change to imp, and you ran the fight anyhow? Please say this isn't the total consumate professionalism I can expect here? This is insane. I would kindly ask, that you run it properly please, or hand it to a pitlord that is capable of doing so.
Snommelp 08-29-05, 11:47 PM	I can see his point, Kaigan. If there's a grievous error in his tactics, and you informed him of it, you should have given him time to come up with a new plan. It might not have done you a whole lot of good, though, Archie. Your opponent was hidden up to the point where he killed you. Unless there's a mistake there where you or your hawk should have spotted him, my admittedly simple mind can't see a different outcome.
Gonbow 08-29-05, 11:52 PM	Milo Tad vs Yasha is up Thanks for getting the fight up. I'm still doing my last fight so I don't have time to comb through it (I'm sure my opponent will do so, in any case), but please increase Yasha's gold award by 80 and note her usage of Craft: Torture Devices when you get a chance to alter the fight. It has to be documented in her fights.
SoulLord 08-29-05, 11:55 PM	This is an absolute OUTRAGE! I just sit there not moving, not thinking, not doing anyting until I die? C'mon please don't say that's the end result? I sent you a pm and an email saying to alterself into ice mephit after realizing I an imp was tiny. Then I come home to find you pm'd me saying I couldn't change to imp, and you ran the fight anyhow? Please say this isn't the total consumate professionalism I can expect here? This is insane. I would kindly ask, that you run it properly please, or hand it to a pitlord that is capable of doing so. The way I see the fight 1 you wanted mage armor and shield to be cast if you didn't see you foe, the pitlord did so 2.- you wanted to keep away from your foe but failed to detect him before he used his mind thrust on you. 3.- It's up to the pitlord to change tactics once they have been received remember that Kaigan might pitlord many of your future fights so asking nicely will get you much better results.
LongArcher 08-30-05, 12:13 AM	I can see his point, Kaigan. If there's a grievous error in his tactics, and you informed him of it, you should have given him time to come up with a new plan. It might not have done you a whole lot of good, though, Archie. Your opponent was hidden up to the point where he killed you. Unless there's a mistake there where you or your hawk should have spotted him, my admittedly simple mind can't see a different outcome. There is a totally different outcome, when i'm 50' in the air, and completely out of range of his mind thrust. The way I see the fight 1 you wanted mage armor and shield to be cast if you didn't see you foe, the pitlord did so AFTER i was flying and 50' in the air. 2.- you wanted to keep away from your foe but failed to detect him before he used his mind thrust on you. Being 50' in the air, this should not have mattered in the least. 3.- It's up to the pitlord to change tactics once they have been received remember that Kaigan might pitlord many of your future fights so asking nicely will get you much better results. I PM'd him of the change long before the fight was run. Not only that, but I get home from work to a PM form him saying that there was an greivious error and required a change, but the fight was run anyhow before I could reply. Ok, i've calmed down a bit. I was just shocked to see this happen. I really thought it would have been handled differently than just in some off the hand, uncaring fashion. Maybe I expected too much. OK, asking nicely, Kaigan, can you please give me another shot at this? Every ounce of my tactics assumed i was flying. And my hawk could have and should have easily auto-spotted him while flying around cover. LOS extends a long ways and flying on his way from one area to the other, there are ample opportunities to auto-spot. But that's not even the problem, the real issue is "me not flying". Ok, asking nicely. :D Really really nicely :D :D :D :D
Tellish_of_Ket 08-30-05, 12:43 AM	I can see his point, Kaigan. If there's a grievous error in his tactics, and you informed him of it, you should have given him time to come up with a new plan. I'm gonna side with you on this one. In fact, i would say it's mandatory. And besides, Cat does it all the time :P @LongArcher: Lets, not get too upset just wait. Kaigan has been around for a very long time and we'll see what he says when he gets back. But also at the same time.... ....@Kaigan: shame shame shame. lol @All: We all make mistakes when writing tactics. That's why we all TRY to send them in as early as possible and let our pitlords review them. If the pitlord has any problems it is imperative to clarify things. This has been a long standing policy. Too many times we used to see fights go like, "I drink my fly potion and cast pro arrows." Pitlord: "Hmm...he has no fly potion or such spell, so i guess he just dies then. Screw it. I'm too lazy anyhow." Such events were common and resulted in many people quiting and huge fights breaking out (cat/jindl) :P :D I know. I lost my cool once too, and a member (a good guy too) ended up quitting and never returning because of it. I still feel bad to this day. Other animosities persisted for over a year (cat/jindl) :P :D Which is why we endeavour to be as courteous as possible. @Cat: you know i'm just teasing you right? :D @Archie: Don't lose your cool. Be courteous and lets see what Kaigan's reply is and how he'll handle the situation. -ToK
LLMadCow 08-30-05, 01:07 AM	This is an absolute OUTRAGE! I just sit there not moving, not thinking, not doing anyting until I die? C'mon please don't say that's the end result? I sent you a pm and an email saying to alterself into ice mephit after realizing I an imp was tiny. Then I come home to find you pm'd me saying I couldn't change to imp, and you ran the fight anyhow? Please say this isn't the total consumate professionalism I can expect here? This is insane. I would kindly ask, that you run it properly please, or hand it to a pitlord that is capable of doing so. I have yet to read the post, but this does happen. Check out This Fight and you will see another great example. In this fight, the pitlord: A) [I'm biting my tongue....], B) Ran the fight as though one gladiator was MENTALLY RETARDED, and C) Completely ignored my comments in the Fights of the Week thread. So, perhaps at this point you would be best served with taking comments to the Council of Gladius and perhaps giving some recommendations. On the other hand - forgive me, but I am forced to play Devil's Advocate - I have no arguement to make. Sorry. Really, I'm tired and I'd have to scour the entire fight, tactics, and such. I'll try to follow up tomorrow night, as I need sleep... LLPL
Luni 08-30-05, 01:22 AM	Dire Flame vs Vivi is up Here! (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7108428&postcount=304) As a side note, I'm going to start throwing Psychic Warriors in jail for bringing in all those Powerstones without having the 1! rank in Psicraft to address them. To decipher a scroll or address a powerstone, the item needs to be identified first. This can be done with a Spellcraft (scrolls) or Psicraft (powerstones) check. You are assumed to take 20 on the check, and you must pass the Dc of the item (Scrolls: Dc20+spell level; Powerstones: Dc15+power level). If you have access to the read magic spell, you do not need to make any spellcraft checks. @Iced: I think some of your powerstones are priced wrong.
Snommelp 08-30-05, 01:25 AM	Ah, yes... reopening old wounds, then salting them. LLMadCow makes a good point, though; sometimes things like this happen. The best you can do is calmly tell the pitlord responsible what's wrong, and if it doesn't get fixed, scream bloody murder in the Tavern thread :P Gonbow, do we have an ETA for your 2 on 2 fight?
McJarvis 08-30-05, 01:37 AM	I won't be able to do my fight this week due to last minute re-scheduling. If someone could please pick it up, that'd be appreciated :) I can forward tactics to whoever does.
Pauper 08-30-05, 01:40 AM	I was concerned to see that the pitlord for the fight Alac was involved in didn't receive my tactics - I sent them Sunday morning at about 2am Central Daylight Time, but it's possible I sent them to the wrong address. No problems with the fight itself, just concerned that the pitlord didn't receive my tactics. -- Pauper
Tellish_of_Ket 08-30-05, 01:43 AM	I won't be able to do my fight this week due to last minute re-scheduling. If someone could please pick it up, that'd be appreciated :) I can forward tactics to whoever does. PM them to me. I'll get it done in the morning. -ToK
Gonbow 08-30-05, 02:09 AM	Ah, yes... reopening old wounds, then salting them. LLMadCow makes a good point, though; sometimes things like this happen. The best you can do is calmly tell the pitlord responsible what's wrong, and if it doesn't get fixed, scream bloody murder in the Tavern thread :P Gonbow, do we have an ETA for your 2 on 2 fight? ETA? Not really. I have it set up and I'm in the opening rounds. I'm not sure if I have it up before the deadline, but it will be up.
Kaigan 08-30-05, 02:48 AM	@All: Look, as I've replied to Longarcher's rather rash and rude PM, I had little time to run fights. As it is my second fight will be late, and up tomorrow some time. I did inform Longarcher. Well in advance of me running the fight. And I did wait for him to reply. Which he did, but way too close to the deadline for my likings. As I told Longarcher, I will try to look into it tomorrow, and in all farness, Longarcher's character should have won, despite the fly factor. So as I take my busride home from vacation at my girlfriends, I'll take a look at it, after I run the other fight. So please, LongArcher, be a bit more considerate next time, and DONT BITE MY HEAD OFF FOR YOUR MISTAKE!!! or for me not getting your PM on time. Take more time on your tactics and this can be avoided. Good night and talk to everyone tomorrow. Kaigan P.S. Why sleep anyways? He has 6 Hp, just magic missle him to death =D
Huan 08-30-05, 03:55 AM	A belated, bare-bones Hagrid vs 5 Shadows (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7109080) is up. Short version: Suspiciously too many good rolls for the shadows... but it was a long and grueling fight. We are using the real treasure multiplier for monsters right? Because Shadows drop no treasure. Does this mean Hagrid gets no gold? If so, my sympathies to a hard fight for Hagrid, and if so, I already included it in the results. Working on story .... may take me a little time...
Usurpator 08-30-05, 04:00 AM	1. First off, I'm not real comfortable with the grapple rules. I never have been and I've been playing for 21 years. I've never liked them, I don't know that I ever will. However, if there's a mistake with it, I want to understand where they are. As far as the whole flurry for grapple checks, I agree that you can do them, but I just didn't. Why? - because I didn't pay particular attention to them. Not an excuse, I was probably being lazy about it. When I edit the fight, I'll add in the flurried grapples. As it is, your opposed rolls were +14 vs +10. By making it flurried, you are looking at +12/+12 vs +10/+10 . I have never been that comfortable with them myself, so I sympathize. Just thought this fight would be a good chance to brush up on them. The idea with using the flurry (if allowed) was that I should have a good chance (84%) of pinning her using two checks of +12 against her +10. If one of them succeeds, all she can do her round is attempt to escape with his single grapple check, nothing else. Sdentch gets an additional -4 to AC vs. Silverfur, making the wolf deadlier that it already was. If I manage to pin her in my first flurry grapple attack, I can use the second flurry grapple attack to damage her without relinquishing the pinning advantage. Before long his rage would run out, and with a pin would be almost automatic, effectively rendering him helpless. The only thing I wondered about is what happens if Silverfur trips Sdentch while in the grapple. Is he prone while Nexa is still standing? Can he resist the trip if pinned? (I saw you didn't make trip attacks, and since I am unsure of what would happen myself, I chose not to mention it before, not wanting to complicate matters even more). Thank you for all the extra effort.
Usurpator 08-30-05, 04:14 AM	Wlandra vs. Maeril fight edited here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7099931&postcount=299). The result ended up changing because Wlandra completely exhausted her inventory of various spells and items. Thank you for the edit! Good work that you remembered to roll a caster level check for the scroll of Shocking Graps, forgot about that myself. The only thing I noticed is that you gave Maeril only +4 to hit on his touch attack. I think he should get +1 for higher ground because he is mounted, and the Shocking Grasp should give me an additional +3 against opponents in metal armor, which Wlandra has, so +8 in total. It wouldn't affect the outcome, though, just end it quicker.... (no need to edit it)
Kaigan 08-30-05, 04:32 AM	[Archie Longbow (LongArcher) vs Minesbiggarinyers (Altaris13) has been edited and the results have changed, please take a look at it again. @LongArcher: I apologize again for the hasty decision on my part, and I hope that you learned not to be rude and to be more careful in writing tactics. I hope never to see such hasty words again. And now I'm going to bed because it is now 1:30 am and I have a bus to catch at 8:15. Cheers. Kaigan
Pittbull 08-30-05, 05:02 AM	@Huan: I hope I get the standart gold, Anna got it too, in her fight against the Xorns! So it should be 4500gp. BTW: Inertial Armor has an duration of 1h/lvl, so it won't run out. But that doesn't change the result of the fight. Thanks a lot!
Cerebus13 08-30-05, 07:47 AM	Thank you for the edit! Good work that you remembered to roll a caster level check for the scroll of Shocking Graps, forgot about that myself. The only thing I noticed is that you gave Maeril only +4 to hit on his touch attack. I think he should get +1 for higher ground because he is mounted, and the Shocking Grasp should give me an additional +3 against opponents in metal armor, which Wlandra has, so +8 in total. It wouldn't affect the outcome, though, just end it quicker.... (no need to edit it)Oh yup, missed that again. But yeah it doesn't affect anything other than ending the fight a few rounds earlier..
Huan 08-30-05, 09:21 AM	@Huan: I hope I get the standart gold, Anna got it too, in her fight against the Xorns! So it should be 4500gp. BTW: Inertial Armor has an duration of 1h/lvl, so it won't run out. But that doesn't change the result of the fight. Thanks a lot! Yarg, that is the umpteenth time I mistake the duration of Inertial Armor (and its not even that hard), I need to carve that into my desk next time. :P
michael_noah 08-30-05, 09:53 AM	Inihe vs. Talari is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7110321&postcount=306). I have never seen the online roller roll this high. It's amazing. Also, I'm sorry it's so late...
Altaris13 08-30-05, 09:57 AM	Wow... What a rip off. Archie screwed up on his tactics. Pure and simple. It is unfair to me as the other player to have the fight rerun just because Archie complained. His screw up, my win. I'll keep this in mind in the future, because that is not the way things have been done. So guess what? My turn to complain. First: M: Sees Archie flying as an Ice Mepthit and realizes that Mind thrust can't reach, so takes out crossbow and fires. Reply: Fall back on PS of Mind Thrust if necessary. If that doesn’t take her out, resort to crossbow. As in, ONLY USE THE CROSSBOW IF MINDTHRUST DOESN'T KILL. Not as in "if mindthrust doesn't reach." Not as in "shoot her and get her attention so she can put me to sleep." If you're going to initiate a change in the other player's tactics Kaigan, I would appreciate it if you followed both of our tactics. Second: M: Reloads and fires hoping to disrupt the spell casting. Reply: That's cool, but I would've preferred you double move out of radius and into hiding. After all... Hide at all times. Move to cover as often as possible. Third: [Will Save: 7+6=13 vs. DC: 16, fail.] Reply: Doesn't change anything, but my will save is +7 with Defensive Precog. Fourth: A: Flies down and dismisses alter self, while drawing greatsword. Reply: You cannot dismiss while flying, if so, then I want falling damage. As such, you cannot draw the greatsword until you land. Doesn't change anything, but FYI. But don't worry about changing the fight Kaigan. We all know who really won this.
Kaigan 08-30-05, 10:08 AM	Wow... What a rip off. Archie screwed up on his tactics. Pure and simple. It is unfair to me as the other player to have the fight rerun just because Archie complained. His screw up, my win. I'll keep this in mind in the future, because that is not the way things have been done. So guess what? My turn to complain. First: Reply: As in, ONLY USE THE CROSSBOW IF MINDTHRUST DOESN'T KILL. Not as in "if mindthrust doesn't reach." Not as in "shoot her and get her attention so she can put me to sleep." If you're going to initiate a change in the other player's tactics Kaigan, I would appreciate it if you followed both of our tactics. Second: Reply: That's cool, but I would've preferred you double move out of radius and into hiding. After all... Third: Reply: Doesn't change anything, but my will save is +7 with Defensive Precog. Fourth: Reply: You cannot dismiss while flying, if so, then I want falling damage. As such, you cannot draw the greatsword until you land. Doesn't change anything, but FYI. But don't worry about changing the fight Kaigan. We all know who really won this. Okay, now I get to battle the other side, fun. First off, I did Pm him before I ran the battle about the problem. Second he says that he PMed me about the changed, but I didn't receive it so it's only fair that I change it as flying was crucial to his tactics. Third: You have NO way of hurting her at all. Mind thrust is your only offensive tactic which has a range of 25 ft +5 ft per 2 levels. He's flying 50 ft in the air? How do you want to kill him? You have a ten round delay, and alter self has a 10min/level duration. Fourth: Fine you move away. How would you even know he's casting sleep? You have no spell craft. A full round spell could also be a summon monster Five: Even if you move away, he can just have his Hawk auto spot you and then destroy you with Magic Missles. But I can't deal with this right now. I've had little sleep, I'm about to take an 8 hour bus ride home from vacation. I have another fight to run. So cut me some slack. Good day.
TelinArtho 08-30-05, 10:27 AM	I just want to take a moment and let everyone pause. Remember, this is only a game. Also remember, that we are supposed to be courteous to everyone here - its in the first post of every FotW thread - and it serves to be told again. Altaris and LongArcher, I can understand your frustration, but there is no reason to let things get out of control. Using a different type font typically translates into yelling. And remember you are yelling about a game. Calm down. You get more out of a pitlord if you are calm with your explanations and are able to produce concrete evidence that something should be changed. In the case of LongArcher, where the pitlord PMed him and got a response - that's a very valid case for a change. For Altaris, you have cited your tactics - also a good method. However, also remember that the pitlord's job is difficult because of the intent of some tactics are not clearly written out. Take for example the tactics that Altaris is citing: Fall back on PS of Mind Thrust if necessary. If that doesn’t take her out, resort to crossbow. If you can't reach your opponent because they are out of range, as a pitlord, I'd say this is the exact case to resort to the crossbow. With regard to trying to run out of the range of sleep when he starts casting, unless you specifically have that in your tactics, I, as a pitlord, would have tried to disrupt. This is common practice. A pitlord has to improvise based on unclear tactics. I, as a pitlord, ask that all players make sure your intents are clear. Two of my characters this week did not do well, and it is possible because my intent wasn't clear in my tactics. Learn from it, calm down and try to win next week. /d
Tellish_of_Ket 08-30-05, 10:41 AM	@Kaigan/Altaris: I'm sure we can all appreciate the level of complication that has arisen because of this. Now it's Altaris's turn to stay cool. :D Please don't think what happened was unfair. I did take the time to go over and read the fight (I usually never do this, but Archie's harsh words made me take a second look). I believe Kaigan did the right thing in ensuring that it was run properly and fairly for both sides. Afterall, Altaris still could have killed Archie on a critical hit, or two good solid hits, so there wasn't anything unfair. Altaris's build has no real way to kill an opponent that is able to stay out of his mind thrust reach and that is a flaw that he must accept the build has. @Archie: K, you had a rough first fight, and i know Kaigan, and i'm sure it could have been handld differently. As pitlords we are generally very tolerant and willing to fix things if we know we erred, or something close to that (as what happened in this situation). But apolagies are in order. -ToK
Pitlords 08-30-05, 11:15 AM	@Kaigan, Gonbow, McJarvis, King Uther: Will your fights be finished? Any takers?
NiQil 08-30-05, 11:17 AM	@Kaigan, Gonbow, McJarvis, King Uther: Will your fights be finished? Any takers? Tellish posted late last night that he would take over McJarvis' fight. Gonbow posted and said that he would get it posted...don't remember seeing anything from the other two.
Faroth 08-30-05, 11:17 AM	I'm asking myself the same question =( I don't want to be innactive for a week because my fight wasn't run =/
Faroth 08-30-05, 11:23 AM	"I won't be able to do my fight this week due to last minute re-scheduling. If someone could please pick it up, that'd be appreciated I can forward tactics to whoever does." - Written by McJarvis Please take my fight! xD
Tellish_of_Ket 08-30-05, 11:23 AM	Tellish posted late last night that he would take over McJarvis' fight. Gonbow posted and said that he would get it posted...don't remember seeing anything from the other two. I still haven't been forwarded the tactics. As soon as i get them though, i shall run the fight. -ToK
Snommelp 08-30-05, 11:25 AM	I think Kaigan said he would run his other fight once the Archie/Mini problem was settled. That leaves Uther. Worst case scenario, I can take it, but it will probably still be past the deadline, because I have classes to attend. It may be the afternoon for some people, but for me, the day has just begun.
Faroth 08-30-05, 11:26 AM	@Tellish_of_Ket: Tactics sent
LongArcher 08-30-05, 11:32 AM	My apolagies to Kaigan/Altaris for the confusion. I realize my outburst was not warranted and I feel bad about it. Thank you for running it properly and I will endeavour to avoid such confusion in the future (assuming I haven't black-listed myself by now) :D.
TelinArtho 08-30-05, 11:32 AM	I will always take fights if I have the time (and I do). So if any need to be sent my way - feel free. This would include Tellish's miniquest (assuming he tells me which undead he wants), if King Uther is unable to finish.
TelinArtho 08-30-05, 11:37 AM	@Pitlords - also, I don't know if you saw the posts regarding this or my subsequent PM, but I took Altaris' Nexa vs Sdentch fight and Luni took his Vivi vs The Dire Flame fight. It hasn't been reflected yet in the characters thread, so I just wanted to make sure (and I apologize that I am a nag about little details like this). Also, on another note, you have marked down that Daeren Stronghammer won his fight this week and sadly, this is not true. Maylee won instead. /d
Gonbow 08-30-05, 11:51 AM	@Pitlords - also, I don't know if you saw the posts regarding this or my subsequent PM, but I took Altaris' Nexa vs Sdentch fight and Luni took his Vivi vs The Dire Flame fight. It hasn't been reflected yet in the characters thread, so I just wanted to make sure (and I apologize that I am a nag about little details like this). Also, on another note, you have marked down that Daeren Stronghammer won his fight this week and sadly, this is not true. Maylee won instead. /d Actually, Daeran did win after revisions. To the gladiators in my fight: It'll be up within one or two hours, tops.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-30-05, 11:53 AM	I will always take fights if I have the time (and I do). So if any need to be sent my way - feel free. This would include Tellish's miniquest (assuming he tells me which undead he wants), if King Uther is unable to finish. The skeletons i desire are on Pure Evil's sheet. Tactics are very basic...i will pm them right now. -ToK **EDIT I'm being called into work early, so i will run the fight when i get back in, around 11pm or so EST. -ToK
Altaris13 08-30-05, 12:09 PM	@Pitlords - also, I don't know if you saw the posts regarding this or my subsequent PM, but I took Altaris' Nexa vs Sdentch fight and Luni took his Vivi vs The Dire Flame fight. It hasn't been reflected yet in the characters thread, so I just wanted to make sure (and I apologize that I am a nag about little details like this). Also, on another note, you have marked down that Daeren Stronghammer won his fight this week and sadly, this is not true. Maylee won instead. /d Little details? :D I want credit where credit is due... In this case, you are due credits. :P As is Luni. Again, thank you both for taking those fights. God bless & protect those who were affected worse than I, and thank God all I suffered was a loss of power & cable. As for Archie vs Mini... We see eachother's sheets. Due to what I've seen others post before, I've understood that to mean we (as in, we the PCs involved) knew what our opponents had prepared. In this instance, the only effective spell that Archie has prepared is Sleep. Thus my comments about hiding. Kaigan, you mentioned the 10 round rule. Guess what? It applies to Archie as well. I'm trying just to attack as much as she, and she is flying out of my reach just as much as I'm hiding. I know thats a sucky way to fight, but when everyone hides, goes invisibile, or otherwise goes for one-shot kills & sleep/hold combos, we as players don't have much choice. By the way, why would the owl get an auto-spot? That is why there are opposed rolls, no? And yes, I'm quite aware of Mini's drawbacks. Frankly, I had a better than even odds of making that save, and yet EVERY single time there is an important roll in EVERY single fight, Invisible Castle :censored: me. Every Single Time. But that is neither here nor there, really. Frankly, if Kaigan is willing (and apparently expected) to speak with a player about tactics, then where was my PM? Where are the questions about clarifications to me? Lastly, why is this 'expectation' not held to EVERY pitlord? I have seen some fights that sucked balls. Some fights are run in a lazy & crappy fashion. And yet, the players are told "too bad, suck it up, I don't want to change the fight." If what Kaigan did is right, then we as a community should not only expect, but require every pitlord to do the same. Pitlording is a way to earn credits. If it can't be done correctly by the Pitlord (ie: with appropriate professional integrity and due process,) then Pitlord who cannot meet these standards should not be allowed to continue running fights. The trend of things is such: if you don't have a magical beast ally/companion, you get found regardless of hiding (which means you need to resort to invisibility.) if you don't have a one-shot kill ability, then you get grappled to death if you don't have a long range attack, then you get smacked with the sleep/hold - CDG combo even if your opponent has none of the above, then you get entangled and peppered to death with arrows. So... Psion/Monk/Cleric of Magic & War combo's are the only way to have a chance of even contesting in the arena? Gotcha, will do. Oh wait, I forgot you have to be a Half-Giant too, so I'm gonna need some credits. Anyone want to donate? :rolleyes:
SoulLord 08-30-05, 12:14 PM	*ponders if Kaigan will have the time to run the over 40+ round vandelar fight* It takes time for orcs to bleed to death........
Pitlords 08-30-05, 12:32 PM	Telin, Ray, you got the fights of Mc and Uther. Both +1°. Gonbow and Kaigan keep theirs for now. Players should ready tactics to forward quickly because I will reassign those within the next hours.
Pitlords 08-30-05, 12:34 PM	A belated, bare-bones Hagrid vs 5 Shadows (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7109080) is up. Short version: Suspiciously too many good rolls for the shadows... but it was a long and grueling fight. We are using the real treasure multiplier for monsters right? Because Shadows drop no treasure. Does this mean Hagrid gets no gold? If so, my sympathies to a hard fight for Hagrid, and if so, I already included it in the results. Working on story .... may take me a little time... Strength damage doesn't go away by manifesting Animal affinity. Hagrid should have -11 strength in the end, not -3. @Longbow: The ceiling is 50 ft high so you can't fly at 90' elevation.
TelinArtho 08-30-05, 12:44 PM	Actually, Daeran did win after revisions. To the gladiators in my fight: It'll be up within one or two hours, tops. I didn't realize that you had in fact revised it with the enlarge person - thank you for doing so.
Gonbow 08-30-05, 12:46 PM	Fight done, and posted. Sheets and tactics are here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7111668&postcount=307). Main fight is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7111692&postcount=308). I'd like to apologize to my gladiators and the rest of Core Coliseum for my slowness this week. Very embarrasing :weep:
Snommelp 08-30-05, 01:38 PM	Fight done, and posted. Sheets and tactics are here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7111668&postcount=307). Main fight is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7111692&postcount=308). I'd like to apologize to my gladiators and the rest of Core Coliseum for my slowness this week. Very embarrasing :weep: It's all right. From the look of things, this has been a hectic week for everyone. Thanks for getting it done.
McJarvis 08-30-05, 02:05 PM	I still haven't been forwarded the tactics. As soon as i get them though, i shall run the fight. -ToK Tactics for both contenders sent at ya. Thanks man!
TelinArtho 08-30-05, 02:49 PM	Pure Evil vs some skeletons (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7112728) This was of no real challenge, but hey it happens. In any case, I'll write up the story when I get a chance (today or tomorrow). EDIT - story added. Nothing long, but that's just because there really wasn't anything special about the fight...
SoulLord 08-30-05, 07:09 PM	Telin, Ray, you got the fights of Mc and Uther. Both +1°. Gonbow and Kaigan keep theirs for now. Players should ready tactics to forward quickly because I will reassign those within the next hours. I think Kaigan said it would run the fight later on.............
Kaigan 08-30-05, 07:58 PM	Can someone please take the Grakk vs. Vandelar fight. I've go no time at the moment. Sorry, I will check later to PM tactics to the new pitlord. And about the Mini vs. Archie fight. I'm tired of it now, and if any one wants to re-run it becuase what I did was unfair then please do so. I've tried to be fair, and tried to cater to both sides but it seems that its impossible to do so. I've gotten my head bitten off twice now in the same week for something that could have been avoided by me just waiting for LongArcher's response. I've learned my lesson now. @Pitlords: I'm taking a week off now from pitlording. Hopefully my campaign will start next week, but now I'm unsure of that. I'll PM you tonight with more details. @King Uther: Could we please start Aeiou's quest sometime next week? I need a little break.
nightbanegod 08-30-05, 08:42 PM	Can someone please take the Grakk vs. Vandelar fight. I've go no time at the moment. Sorry, I will check later to PM tactics to the new pitlord. poor kaigan... sure ill take the fight
Luni 08-31-05, 12:24 AM	@Michael Noah: I don't think you counted the penalty to MS for Inihe moving more then half his speed.
michael_noah 08-31-05, 12:45 AM	@Luni - you might be right, I probably should have included that at some point - in any case, most of the checks were impossible either way. For those that were affected by the -5 penalty, if Inehe rolled a 6 he'd be ok. In any case, Talari's tactics wouldn't have changed even if he'd detected him.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-31-05, 01:13 AM	Lothan vs Ellorian is up. When i was cut/pasting it from word onto the boards here, i accidently shut down word and lost the information in clipboard. I'll try to re-type it tomorrow, but at least i'd thought i'd post the results now. -ToK
nightbanegod 08-31-05, 01:49 AM	alright heres Grakk vs Vandelar the red (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7116518&postcount=310) sorry for the abrubt ending to it but i have to get up for work in 4 hours and you all better be grateful!! :P but if obscuring mist duration is > than your HP and your bleeding with no possible hope for a cure... its time to invest in some curing putions dude... not that that would have HELPED or anything :P @Cat do i only get the 1° for running tellinarthos mini quest or do i get another 1° since its listed under the arena fight and we turned it into a nifty RP session with a very creepy mindset for a cleric? and don't forget this fight... im just trying to keep tabs of my earnings since i will be dropping my lovely new character soon and i need the 12° for em asap ... he doesnt like hiding in the closet
Altaris13 08-31-05, 09:09 AM	Kaigan, thanks for Pitlording. You did a great job. I apologize for venting my frustrations on you, that was wrong. I sent you a PM, just in case you missed this post. Please accept my apologies for acting like a jerk.
nightbanegod 08-31-05, 06:02 PM	alright heres Grakk vs Vandelar the red (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7116518&postcount=310) sorry for the abrubt ending to it but i have to get up for work in 4 hours and you all better be grateful!! :P but if obscuring mist duration is > than your HP and your bleeding with no possible hope for a cure... its time to invest in some curing putions dude... not that that would have HELPED or anything :P @Cat do i only get the 1° for running tellinarthos mini quest or do i get another 1° since its listed under the arena fight and we turned it into a nifty RP session with a very creepy mindset for a cleric? and don't forget this fight... im just trying to keep tabs of my earnings since i will be dropping my lovely new character soon and i need the 12° for em asap ... he doesnt like hiding in the closet just want to make sure that parties concerned saw that their fight was posted ... i know its a little late to edit your character accordingly but hey... the fight was there and i posted it early this mourning
Altaris13 08-31-05, 06:07 PM	People 'mourn' in the 'morn.' Some are in 'mourning' in the 'morning.' Your post was this 'morning.' ;)
nightbanegod 08-31-05, 06:37 PM	People 'mourn' in the 'morn.' Some are in 'mourning' in the 'morning.' Your post was this 'morning.' ;) DOHH... forgive me, i had a long day at work and i ended up showing up late to work 1 hour and 15 minutes late so i had to work late to compensate :weep: and on that note back to said malts and barleys