| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Cerebus1308-31-05, 12:34 PM | This thread is for questions, comments, and concerns solely regarding the pairings, quests, and campaigns for this week. The rules of the COCO can be found here: Rules of Gladius (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448520&origin=) Have fun, and BE NICE. My turn this week! |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 12:36 PM | :D Isn't it a bit early today? |
| Tellish_of_Ket08-31-05, 12:38 PM | I want to emphasize the "BE NICE!" part. :D -ToK |
| Cerebus1308-31-05, 12:39 PM | :D Isn't it a bit early today?It's almost lunch and I was bored, so sue me :P. |
| TelinArtho08-31-05, 12:41 PM | Just for the record - whoever is paired up with Sir Valkin this week is required to lose. Next week Sir Valkin goes on campaign and he needs the funds - so just bend over and take it :) That's all for now... |
| NiQil08-31-05, 12:41 PM | I want to emphasize the "BE NICE!" part. :D -ToK And I want to emphasize the HAVE FUN part. :P |
| NiQil08-31-05, 12:42 PM | Just for the record - whoever is paired up with Sir Valkin this week is required to lose. Next week Sir Valkin goes on campaign and he needs the funds - so just bend over and take it :) That's all for now... Well I'm your huckleberry...but then again I have no credits to follow through with that LOL. |
| Gonbow08-31-05, 12:53 PM | Be nice and have fun: I second that motion! That's why Lortavos is still active; should be a nice and fun win for someone. As opposed to my other characters :evillaugh :devil: |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 12:57 PM | Just for the record - whoever is paired up with Sir Valkin this week is required to lose. Next week Sir Valkin goes on campaign and he needs the funds - so just bend over and take it :) That's all for now... Hey Telin, if you pay the credits, I'll let you fight Mini. I'm already going to lose, so I may as well benefit someone cool. ;) But watch out for Zamier, he's looking to kick some :censored: |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 12:59 PM | Be nice and have fun: I second that motion! That's why Lortavos is still active; should be a nice and fun win for someone. As opposed to my other characters :evillaugh :devil: Don't worry Gonbow, luck is against me, so you don't get smacked down by a REAL Elf. Silly Psions. Silly Wizard-Wanna-be's. :D |
| TelinArtho08-31-05, 01:50 PM | Unfortunately, I need to be a little tight on my credits. I've got 11 right now and although I should have plenty for the week after this one, I need at least 10 (5 for the campaign, 5 for the item I am buying with this week's winnings). If I lose my fight this week, I still have an option (sell my suit of Full Plate), but I'd rather not have to... Of course, I don't know what Kaigan is doing about Guardian Angel leaving CoCo - it seems we are missing a 4th player... |
| Usurpator08-31-05, 02:28 PM | Of course, I don't know what Kaigan is doing about Guardian Angel leaving CoCo - it seems we are missing a 4th player... I was thinking to join with Maeril (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6959325), but I don't have the requisite credits, yet.... But if Caterane gives me the promised extra credit for my last battle maps (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7091797) and I manage to gain two more credits this week, I just should be able to make it to 5. If so you can count me in. |
| King Uther08-31-05, 02:33 PM | I'll be the 4th player. I'm keeping it a secret as to what, but know I'll be adventuring with you. @Gonbow It won't be a difficult win. And I'm sticking to my promise and killing you in melee too. Oh, and good luck. @ Everyone Bring it. No, really. @ToK Get ready for a story intensive week @Kaigan Quest is going to be fun |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 02:38 PM | That'll be wicked Uther! I'm really looking forward to going on a Campaign, this one especially. |
| TelinArtho08-31-05, 02:58 PM | I'm definitely looking forward to the campaign, so I'm glad to here that a 4th player has already been chosen. I've been working on developing some more depth for Sir Valkin, which hopefully will be up by the time the campaign starts. Also, since I've never been in one of these campaigns, I figured I should stock up on some things. Valkin is already planning on making the following purchases just for the campaign: -10.5 (3 weeks of Trail Rations) -10 (50ft Silk Rope) -.3(3 sacks) -1 (Flint and Steel) -2.1 (6 weeks of Feed) -8 (Mule) -5 (Pack Saddle) -8 (2 saddlebags) -.05 (5 torches) -10 (tent) -1 (10 pitons) -1 (grappling hook) -3 (60 crafted bolts for crossbow) Just to be prepared. Everyone in the campaign should feel free to use my mule as a pack mule (that's what he is after all :) ). I'm planning for 3 weeks out in the field. I asked Kaigan if that's a good amount but didn't really hear back. I'm just hoping that it is mostly overland, so Valkin can use Foreman effectively... Also, note that while he has a rope, grappling hook and pitons - he has no climbing nor rope use ranks... |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 03:09 PM | Also, since I've never been in one of these campaigns, I figured I should stock up on some things. Valkin is already planning on making the following purchases just for the campaign:. I should do the same thing. -10.5 (3 weeks of Trail Rations) -10 (50ft Silk Rope) -.3(3 sacks) -1 (Flint and Steel) -2.1 (6 weeks of Feed) -8 (Mule) -5 (Pack Saddle) -8 (2 saddlebags) -.05 (5 torches) -10 (tent) -1 (10 pitons) -1 (grappling hook) -3 (60 crafted bolts for crossbow) Just to be prepared. Everyone in the campaign should feel free to use my mule as a pack mule (that's what he is after all :) ). I'm planning for 3 weeks out in the field. I asked Kaigan if that's a good amount but didn't really hear back. I'm just hoping that it is mostly overland, so Valkin can use Foreman effectively... Also, note that while he has a rope, grappling hook and pitons - he has no climbing nor rope use ranks... Had to put my glasses back on. I swore that said: Everyone in the campaign should feel free to use me as a pack mule... :D |
| Gonbow08-31-05, 03:12 PM | @King Uther My my, we are rather confidant arn't we? ^_^ At least I'm not even saying my characters will win, just that they will put up a fight. I find it interesting that a melee-caster hybrid thinks they are better at melee than a straight melee hybrid... but we shall see, eh? |
| Ellorion Saenelle08-31-05, 03:14 PM | I hope it isn't all land. I can only last 19 hours at a time without water. |
| King Uther08-31-05, 03:15 PM | @ Gonbow Well, I consider this a battle to test out the various advantages and disadvantages in my build. I throw out a little trash talk simply because I think it is fun. I hope nobody really ever takes me seriously. |
| NiQil08-31-05, 03:16 PM | I hope it isn't all land. I can only last 19 hours at a time without water. If that is case, they may have to clear off the packmule to be able to carry your body back to a cleric who can resurrect you LOL. Ever wanted to be reincarnated as a :chicken: or a :turkey: ? :rofl: |
| NiQil08-31-05, 03:18 PM | @ Gonbow Well, I consider this a battle to test out the various advantages and disadvantages in my build. I throw out a little trash talk simply because I think it is fun. I hope nobody really ever takes me seriously. Yer correct....no one ever takes you seriously LOL :ayyyy!: |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 03:21 PM | Yer correct....no one ever takes you seriously LOL :ayyyy!: :heehee |
| King Uther08-31-05, 03:21 PM | @NiQil I'd challenge one of your characters, but I'm having a hard time choosing between all 5,147. Pick one for me please. |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 03:22 PM | And NiQil, make it snappy, we don't want it to take until NEXT Week's Pairings for you to wade through them all... :eek: :D |
| NiQil08-31-05, 03:24 PM | Yanno....I think it would be nifty idea to create a thread whose sole purpose is for trash-talking...that would be the place for challenges to go down and whatnot. That way, the Tavern and the FotW threads don't get convoluted with it. Maybe call it the Core Coliseum Locker room (or something with a more archaic feel that would convey the same idea). |
| TelinArtho08-31-05, 03:24 PM | I hope it isn't all land. I can only last 19 hours at a time without water. Well, if you buy a cart and erect some sort of aquarium on it - that might work... and my mule would even pull it if its not too heavy... otherwise, you might need to get a few mules of your own... |
| King Uther08-31-05, 03:26 PM | Carry a lot of water flasks, and breathe one in every 19 hours. |
| NiQil08-31-05, 03:27 PM | @NiQil I'd challenge one of your characters, but I'm having a hard time choosing between all 5,147. Pick one for me please. Hey...you missed the latest ones...it's now 5151. As an aside...with no game in my area to play, I unfortunately have to satisfy my D&D craving here...and because I get so many ideas for builds or concepts or themes, I hafta try em all. So you'll have to excuse me with all of the characters...but hey....at least it's more cannon fodder for the rest of you. |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 03:30 PM | No worries from my end NiQil. Creative genius needs an outlet. And I like the concept of a CoCo Wagers & Challenges thread. Something was mentioned before, but I guess it was shotdown by Cat. Still, a trash-talking thread would be nifty, as long as we kept it from being taken serious. You know, we would take it as serious as we do Uther. :P |
| King Uther08-31-05, 03:30 PM | It's cool. Enjoy D&D. There is no reason not to have fun with builds. |
| Sindorin08-31-05, 03:31 PM | LLMadCow created the CoCo Bathroom back in the day, but it didn't last very long. The trash talking thing, even if in good fun, is something new to me since returning to the boards... |
| NiQil08-31-05, 03:37 PM | No worries from my end NiQil. Creative genius needs an outlet. And I like the concept of a CoCo Wagers & Challenges thread. Something was mentioned before, but I guess it was shotdown by Cat. Still, a trash-talking thread would be nifty, as long as we kept it from being taken serious. You know, we would take it as serious as we do Uther. :P Well, it was the wagers end of it that got shot down, because it was too much work and I would imagine there was some abuse as well. But just a thread for others to trash-talk would be kinda fun, I think...anyone else have an opinion? |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 03:40 PM | It's cool. Enjoy D&D. There is no reason not to have fun with builds. I made Aeryn simply because I'd always wanted to try a Chain-fighter and never had. This is a great place to try builds, and most of the people here make it very fun. Even the ones with a bajillion characters. ;) But worry not my enemies!!! You will soon match your meat! I'll lick your butt! :D And anyone who can tell me what movie that is from gets a cookie. Note that is not the exact quote. |
| Sindorin08-31-05, 03:43 PM | I already have cookies. :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: |
| NiQil08-31-05, 03:43 PM | I made Aeryn simply because I'd always wanted to try a Chain-fighter and never had. This is a great place to try builds, and most of the people here make it very fun. Even the ones with a bajillion characters. ;) But worry not my enemies!!! You will soon match your meat! I'll lick your butt! :D And anyone who can tell me what movie that is from gets a cookie. Note that is not the exact quote. That would be Sandra Bullock in Demolition Man. |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 03:46 PM | Man I love that movie. Be well! Be :censored:! As promised a :cookie: for NiQil. |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 03:47 PM | I already have cookies. :cookie: :cookie: And now you have one less. ;) |
| NiQil08-31-05, 03:47 PM | You have been fined one credit for violation of the verbal morality statute. :rimshot: |
| King Uther08-31-05, 03:56 PM | You mean you don't know how to use the shells? |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 03:59 PM | :heehee LOL!!! |
| NiQil08-31-05, 04:00 PM | It's the most popular station in town. Wall-to-wall mini-tunes. You called them commercials. |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 04:09 PM | "Armor hot dogs, the dogs kids love to biiiiiiiiiiite..." |
| Sindorin08-31-05, 04:09 PM | Oh well, I do like Sandra Bullock, so I suppose the cookie is justly given... :cookie: :cookie: |
| Snommelp08-31-05, 04:36 PM | hmm... first FotW thread I've seen without pairings on the front page... lots of random chatter, to which I am now adding... |
| TelinArtho08-31-05, 05:03 PM | Hey where's Mindrogue - I need to know where to pass my characters and when to put the pencil down... |
| nightbanegod08-31-05, 05:20 PM | I made Aeryn simply because I'd always wanted to try a Chain-fighter and never had. This is a great place to try builds, and most of the people here make it very fun. Even the ones with a bajillion characters. ;) But worry not my enemies!!! You will soon match your meat! I'll lick your butt! :D And anyone who can tell me what movie that is from gets a cookie. Note that is not the exact quote. and on another note, i dont know how i could live in a future where the exchange of body fluids is TABOO :devil: :schemes: :devil: |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 06:11 PM | *Mini stabs War in the foot with a pencil* Hey Nightbane, I hope Zamier & Dalamar get to face off this round. I'll show what a real Elven Caster is ALL ABOUT. I'll be like :mage: and :fight!: You'll be like :eek: and :surrender Then I'll be like :cheer: and :dancin: And you'll be like :weep: and :raincloud And then I'll be like :evillaugh and :devil: And then you'll be like :b: and :ghosted: |
| Snommelp08-31-05, 06:11 PM | I suppose it's too late to edit? I have a picture to add to Sam's character sheet, but it can wait. |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 06:13 PM | Yeah, deadline past an hour & 13 minutes ago. Or there abouts. |
| Mind Rogue08-31-05, 06:37 PM | Hey where's Mindrogue - I need to know where to pass my characters and when to put the pencil down... I'm sorry. Now that classes have resumed and I'm confined to eating in the dining hall, I kind of missed the boat this week. Next week, I'll try to give the directive right after my acting class (which ends shortly before the deadline, giving me just about enough time to get back to the dorm). So... The time is up (about an hour and a half ago). So you should have long since set your pencils down and passed the sheets over to Cat, who has begun matching, and to Niqil, who will continue grading in a lame attempt to earn credits. ;) (And yes, I know that I mixed tenses there, but Cat has just recently started while Niqil has been doing this continuously for a while). |
| nightbanegod08-31-05, 06:50 PM | I'm sorry. Now that classes have resumed and I'm confined to eating in the dining hall, I kind of missed the boat this week. Next week, I'll try to give the directive right after my acting class (which ends shortly before the deadline, giving me just about enough time to get back to the dorm). So... The time is up (about an hour and a half ago). So you should have long since set your pencils down and passed the sheets over to Cat, who has begun matching, and to Niqil, who will continue grading in a lame attempt to earn credits. (And yes, I know that I mixed tenses there, but Cat has just recently started while Niqil has been doing this continuously for a while). WAIT A SECOND!!!! your a thespian? .... :rofl: :weep: no sersiously ... :rofl: and on another note ...*Mini stabs War in the foot with a pencil* Hey Nightbane, I hope Zamier & Dalamar get to face off this round. I'll show what a real Elven Caster is ALL ABOUT. I'll be like :mage: and :fight!: You'll be like :eek: and :surrender ..... ext. ext. ext. And then you'll be like :b: and :ghosted: i would like to see you produce the :censored: that actually made you think that my FOURTH LVL Dalamar would even put forth the effort to SQUASH your pathetic THRID lvl wannabe mage? i think Dalamar could take you 24/7/365 and on that note ... i walk away the bigger man for turning down this fight :D |
| Pitlords08-31-05, 06:55 PM | PAIRINGS DONE Credit Changes: +9: Huan +4: Uther +3: Nightbanegod, TelinArtho, Luni +2: Caterane, Alteris, Ellorien, Iced, Mindrogue, Vathelokai +1: Cerebus, MichaelNoah, TheMagister, Usurpator, Xanadu, LLMadCow +0: Gonbow, Malither, Kaigan, SoulLord -2: NiQil -4: Maraxus -5: Beldin, Maverick -8: Tellish Credits for Pitlords: +4: Luni +3: Nightbanegod, TelinArtho +2: Alteris, Ellorien, Gonbow, Iced, Kaigan, Mindrogue, Xanadu +1: Caterane, Cerebus, Huan, Uther, Malither, Maraxus, MichaelNoah, SoulLord, TheMagister, Usurpator Credits for Questlords: +6: Uther +3: Huan, TelinArtho +2: Luni, Xanadu, Vathelokai Credits for Questers: -1: Kaigan, Uther, Luni, Malither, SoulLord, TelinArtho -2: Xanadu -3: Tellish Credits for Campaigns: +4: Huan +2: Uther, Tellish Credits for Active PCs: -1: Kaigan, Xanadu -2: Gonbow, Uther, TelinArtho, Tellish, NiQil, Luni Special Credits: +1: Caterane (admin), LLMadCow (admin), Huan (admin) -2: Uther (challenge) -5: Maraxus, Tellish, Maverick, Beldin (campaign entry) I want to remind you that we still have to discuss the open questions for Guilds. We all want to see them up and running asap so please help me in coming up with good ways to handle them. Discussion is in the Council of Gladius. Thanks |
| nightbanegod08-31-05, 07:00 PM | and on that note i submit my army of PURE :mage::mage::mage: :mage::mage::mage: :mage::mage::mage: :mage::mage::mage: to dominate all of GLADIUS!!! and coming soon my :confused: mystery :confused: character to dominate gladius in another way... and whew .... when i have a few credits ... my character will undergo the wierdest twist in story line that GLADIUS has ever seen |
| Mind Rogue08-31-05, 07:01 PM | WAIT A SECOND!!!! your a thespian? .... :rofl: :weep: no sersiously ... :rofl: and on another note ... i would like to see you produce the :censored: that actually made you think that my FOURTH LVL Dalamar would even put forth the effort to SQUASH your pathetic THRID lvl wannabe mage? i think Dalamar could take you 24/7/365 and on that note ... i walk away the bigger man for turning down this fight :D I don't really see what's so funny. It's actually a course designed for non-majors since, while I do do some community theatre, I don't exactly have the talent necessary to be a professional. |
| nightbanegod08-31-05, 07:04 PM | I don't really see what's so funny. It's actually a course designed for non-majors since, while I do do some community theatre, I don't exactly have the talent necessary to be a professional. sorry just me and my wierd sense of humor and on the note of my sense of humor ... i get to cook a kitty !!! (dalamar vs Lortavos) AWWWW my horseman didnt get paired... i must have forgotten to update his TITLE to ready for 8/31.... any way i could get him into a monster fight ? so that at least he gets to fight something this week? |
| Faroth08-31-05, 07:18 PM | I'm not in the pairings! Please, maybe there was an error (or maybe i was late). Consider the fact that my fight was run in the morning. I want to fight, I don't care if it is against a monster or a character. Thanks =/ |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 07:24 PM | Hey Caterane... My name is ALTARIS13... :D Not Alteris, not Ataris, and not Altaris12... I don't really mind, as long as I get my credits and the tactics from players. ;) |
| nightbanegod08-31-05, 07:25 PM | I'm not in the pairings! Please, maybe there was an error (or maybe i was late). Consider the fact that my fight was run in the morning. I want to fight, I don't care if it is against a monster or a character. Thanks =/ i thought there was an unusually small list of fights for the characters of the 3rd ECL...pitty i didnt get paired for 3 fights, ehh but, oohh well and on a COMPLETELY unrealted note... anyone else find it odd that 5/21 of the active pitlords handles begin with the letter M? thats just kinda creepy i think...i have no idea why thats creepy ... just an observation :D @Soullord tactics sent for Dalamar, and thanks for pitlording this, and lastly, BE NICE to dalamar |
| Snommelp08-31-05, 07:28 PM | My tactics have been sent. If the pairings change and it effects me, please let me know so I can resend tactics. |
| Ellorion Saenelle08-31-05, 07:46 PM | @kaigan Tactics Sent |
| Aramil Dunskar08-31-05, 07:49 PM | @Pitlords: I'm just wondering why your not pairing me for any fights to run.... this would be the second week in a row that you have done this. Not much of a problem, however I would like to go on a quest in the future to improve Grakk, so I'll need the 5 credits.... *Looks at Pairings* :eek: :eek: :eek: Grakk has enough trouble with a single spellcasters, seeing as who I don't think he's ever beaten one. Now that he has to go up against two, including a druid..... I have a feeling he's going to get crushed..... :nonono: -Aramil |
| Gonbow08-31-05, 08:03 PM | @NiQil Tactics recieved, nothing looks amiss at first blush. @Huan Yasha's tactics vrs Balbanes sent. @SoulLord Lortavos' tactics vrs Dalamar sent. @Nightbanegod Tatyana's tatics vrs Gang Lion sent. If pairings change and I've sent stuff to the wrong peeps, well, please let me know ^_^ Predictions for this week: Yasha overcomes Balbanes' mirror image through masterful attacks and lucky dice to trip him down for the win! :devil: Lortavos is consumed by a cloud of bats while laughing/purring. :weep: Tatyana utterly decimates Gang Lion before he can get off his weakling hold person (DC 16? Hah!). :cool: Oh and as a bonus for those following the campaign; Nicolae gets sliced to ribbons by a Babau :ghosted: |
| Sindorin08-31-05, 08:19 PM | Tactics for corrupt legislation fight vs. Grakk AND Talari sent to nightbanegod. Seriously... the 1/3 rule is really mean in cases like this... |
| NiQil08-31-05, 08:27 PM | @ Ellorion Saenelle Tactics for Caspian the Headhunter sent via PM @ Usurpator Tactics for Kronos the Farslayer sent via PM @ Altaris13 Tactics for Methos the Bonecrusher sent via PM @ Gonbow Tactics for Silas the Soulreaver sent via PM |
| Altaris1308-31-05, 08:41 PM | @NiQil: Tactics recieved for Methos the Boner @Telin: Tactics emailed for Zamier crushing Wlandra. Tactics will be sent tomorrow for Mini. Now I return to my regularly scheduled Morrowind. |
| Ellorion Saenelle08-31-05, 08:47 PM | @ Niqil Tactics Received |
| Mind Rogue08-31-05, 09:24 PM | i thought there was an unusually small list of fights for the characters of the 3rd ECL...pitty i didnt get paired for 3 fights, ehh but, oohh well and on a COMPLETELY unrealted note... anyone else find it odd that 5/21 of the active pitlords handles begin with the letter M? thats just kinda creepy i think...i have no idea why thats creepy ... just an observation :D @Soullord tactics sent for Dalamar, and thanks for pitlording this, and lastly, BE NICE to dalamar ~Manifests Telempathic Projection to put nightbanegod in a nice and restful mood before hitting him with an overchannelled, fully-augmented Mind Thrust with Greater Psionic Endowment. |
| Maraxus08-31-05, 09:44 PM | @ Usurpator: Zassl's tactic send, Zassl vs Kronos can begin ;) |
| NiQil08-31-05, 09:53 PM | @ Usurpator: Zassl's tactic send, Zassl vs Kronos can begin ;) :pint: Here's to getting punked by a kobold LOL |
| Huan08-31-05, 10:04 PM | @Gonbow Yasha's tactics received, thank you. Feel free to tack on any RP for the ensuing story. :) @Pittbull Story's coming for Hagrid, don't you worry... I'll try to get it done by tomorrow, but no promises. ;) |
| Mind Rogue08-31-05, 10:12 PM | @Maraxus and Telin Tactics sent for my characters @Snommelp Tactics recieved @Cat I think I should actually be at +1 credits, not +2. I have two characters in the arena this week and a druid who is campaigning. Of course, I'll gladly take the extra credit... but these darn things that I have called morals are making me let you know this. |
| Aramil Dunskar08-31-05, 10:46 PM | Tactics for corrupt legislation fight vs. Grakk AND Talari sent to nightbanegod. Seriously... the 1/3 rule is really mean in cases like this... I'm still pretty sure that you can kick Grakk's but all over the arena with your spells..... -Aramil |
| Gonbow08-31-05, 10:47 PM | @Huan Extra RP notes sent; I apologize if they are slightly scant. Feel free to color in extra details/shift things if it doesn't seem appropriate (The samples are just that). |
| TelinArtho08-31-05, 10:58 PM | Tactics received for Yoriko and Zamier. Will be sending mine tomorrow morning. |
| TelinArtho08-31-05, 11:03 PM | Ummm... I'm not supposed to have tactics for Zamier... Altaris13 or whatever number you are - I need Mini's tactics... |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-01-05, 12:23 AM | @SauroGrenom Tactics Received @SauroGrenom and Niqil Starting Battle |
| King Uther09-01-05, 01:43 AM | @Huan Tactics will be sent tomorrow morning when I have time to write them out. |
| Usurpator09-01-05, 02:02 AM | @Telin: Tactics emailed for Zamier crushing Wlandra. You're already trying to duck out of the fight against Maeril? :chicken:? :P BTW, Maeril crushed Wlandra last week. |
| Luni09-01-05, 02:08 AM | @my pitlords: I'll send tactics out tomorrow. I need time to think. @TelinArtho: Your quest is up "Handling the Vermin" (http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=494428) Also, Shakari won't surrender to Sir Valkin. I'm kind-of curious how the fight will turn out, as both of them are very similar. |
| Usurpator09-01-05, 02:08 AM | @ Usurpator: Zassl's tactic send, Zassl vs Kronos can begin ;) Received both of them. Will probably have time to run it on saturday. |
| Delusional Illusion09-01-05, 03:33 AM | TelinArtho: Sent Wlandra's tactics to you via email. BTW, Maeril crushed Wlandra last week. But only because the outcome was changed :P I crushed you first ;) |
| Usurpator09-01-05, 03:52 AM | But only because the outcome was changed :P I crushed you first ;) Those who crush last, crush best. :D ;) |
| Pittbull09-01-05, 05:59 AM | @Michael: Hagrid's tactic has been sent to you via PM. |
| Altaris1309-01-05, 06:32 AM | lol. Oops. Sorry about that Telin. Wowser... I sent tactics to the right Pitlord for the right opponent... For the wrong gladiator. :D |
| Maraxus09-01-05, 07:35 AM | Tactics received, will start Alexi Wood vs Ch'ch'ili shortly. |
| waywreth09-01-05, 09:39 AM | @ Luni - Tactics for Amion Dar'ath sent via PM. @ TelinArtho - Tactics for Barrinand Darath sent via PM. |
| Faroth09-01-05, 09:46 AM | I don't have an answer form the Pitlords (I PM them) I want a fight to level up -_- |
| TelinArtho09-01-05, 10:17 AM | TelinArtho: Sent Wlandra's tactics to you via email. But only because the outcome was changed :P I crushed you first ;) Delusional - I did NOT receive them - I repeat - DID NOT receive them... hopefully you'll see this and send again. Email is starstealer @ comcast.net Or just PM them. |
| TelinArtho09-01-05, 10:20 AM | Tactics sent for Kraegin, Daeren and Sir Valkin all via PM to Gonbow, Cerebus13, and Altaris13 respectively. I have tactics for one gladiator in each of the three fights: Mini, Barrinand, and Yoriko. I don't have the other three. |
| LongArcher09-01-05, 10:21 AM | @Ellorion: Tactics Sent Via Email. |
| LLMadCow09-01-05, 10:36 AM | @Luni - Are you okay with it if I am unable to get tactics out until Friday night or Saturday morning? I am going to attempt to finish them tonight, but that depends on work... LLPL |
| Delusional Illusion09-01-05, 10:43 AM | Delusional - I did NOT receive them - I repeat - DID NOT receive them... hopefully you'll see this and send again. Email is starstealer @ comcast.net Or just PM them. Didn't come? Odd :confused:... I've resent the tactics by email and PM. Hopefully other one gets through :) |
| TelinArtho09-01-05, 10:51 AM | Actually, I apparently made a mistake. I have NOT received Mini's tactics, but did have Wlandra's... Sorry for the confusion... |
| Altaris1309-01-05, 11:01 AM | :D You should have Mini's tactics now Telin. Also, I just got yours for Valkin. @Iced: tactics were emailed for Zamier vs Maeril. Cowardly paladins always hiding behind their horses. Compensation, that's what their 'mounts' are, compensation. :D |
| Luni09-01-05, 11:27 AM | @Luni - Are you okay with it if I am unable to get tactics out until Friday night or Saturday morning? I am going to attempt to finish them tonight, but that depends on work... LLPL Thats fine. |
| Gonbow09-01-05, 11:28 AM | @TelinArtho Tactics for Kraegin recieved, reply sent. @MeekHead PM recieved, reply sent. |
| TelinArtho09-01-05, 11:31 AM | Tactics received for Mini - PM sent for clarification. PM received from Gonbow - reply sent. |
| Luni09-01-05, 12:00 PM | @Altaris13: Tactis sent. @Waywreth and Snommelp: Tactics Received. |
| TelinArtho09-01-05, 12:29 PM | First fight of the week is done. Mini vs Wlandra (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7131950) |
| Pitlords09-01-05, 01:00 PM | Victor (Laughing Dragon) vs Vivi (Dr.Funk): TheMagister Gonbow has been reassigned! Gonbow +1°, Magister -1° |
| SoulLord09-01-05, 01:05 PM | Lotarvos and dalamars tactics received... |
| Altaris1309-01-05, 01:16 PM | @Luni: Tactics received. @Telin: That was quick! Thanks mate. The dice gawds were with me this week. Must've been all those chickens... :devil: |
| Pitlords09-01-05, 01:22 PM | Lothan (Faroth) vs monsters [6 small viper snakes]: Ellorien Ellorien +1° |
| Maraxus09-01-05, 01:29 PM | Ch'ch'ili vs. Alexi Wood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7132433) ...is up. Grumml, I though, I would be first, but then Telin posts an hour earlier, because his fight is only 4 rounds. :) PS: This time, both fighters had some good and some bad luck. I think the better tactic won, through I had really not begrudged it for Ch'ch'ili, he was really, really close to winning. |
| Altaris1309-01-05, 02:10 PM | First fight of the week is done. Mini vs Wlandra (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7131950) I have to say, that was a shocking fight... ;) |
| NiQil09-01-05, 02:15 PM | I have to say, that was a shocking fight... ;) :rimshot: |
| King Uther09-01-05, 02:39 PM | @Maraxus Chili's Energy Ray Crit would deal 8d6+6(Wild surged) or 6d6+4(Non-wild surged) 2d6+2(2pp ray)+2d6+2(Crit)+2d6(Psionic Shot)with an extra 2d6+2 if he wild surged. |
| Altaris1309-01-05, 02:48 PM | Maraxus: also, round nine: Alexi moves still in full defence moves, readied attack as he reaches (15, -8) Full Defense is a standard action, so he couldn't ready. FYI. Ouch... That 2d6+2 could (probably) put Alexi down, which will probably mean no healing. EDIT: Round 13: Ch'ch'ili manifests another argumented, wild surged Mind thrust (can he do that?) Yes, you can. :D Wilders roxxorz, when surging anyway. |
| Maraxus09-01-05, 02:57 PM | Altaris13: That was short for: Ch'ch'ili's readied attack triggers as Alexi reaches (15, -8). ...to short probably. :) King Uther: A 2 power point ray? I am quite sure, it is a one power point ray ... let me look at it... Ah, I did not wild surge the energy ray... and I don't think that this is possible, since it is not a power but a psi-like ability. |
| Usurpator09-01-05, 03:05 PM | @Iced: tactics for Maeril vs. Zamier e-mailed. @Iced: tactics were emailed for Zamier vs Maeril. Cowardly paladins always hiding behind their horses. Compensation, that's what their 'mounts' are, compensation. :D Already hiding behind excuses before the battle starts? ;) You're not afraid are you? :P 'You will be, you will be.....' |
| Sindorin09-01-05, 03:05 PM | Ah, I did not wild surge the energy ray... and I don't think that this is possible, since it is not a power but a psi-like ability. The Dromite can wild surge his psi like energy ray, thus any augmentable power that is a psi like ability CAN be wild surged. Hmm, this brings back memories of Cliche Ferech, the first Dromite of the arena... I might roll him up and post him again... |
| Mind Rogue09-01-05, 03:18 PM | @Maraxus Chili's Energy Ray Crit would deal 8d6+6(Wild surged) or 6d6+4(Non-wild surged) 2d6+2(2pp ray)+2d6+2(Crit)+2d6(Psionic Shot)with an extra 2d6+2 if he wild surged. Well, normally his energy ray is 1d6 +1 (ML 1), with another +1 for point blank shot for 1d6+2. He crited, making it 2d6+4, then psionic shot is added on for 4d6+4. He had it right. Also, ch'ch'ili cannot wild surge its energy ray because the ability specifically says "a wilder can choose to invoke a wild surge whenever she manifests a power". Since the energy ray is a psi-like ability and not an actual power, it cannot be wild surged. Still, that had come a little too close for comfort. Also, I will be running the Sdentch vs Sam fight shortly. |
| Maraxus09-01-05, 03:26 PM | Irg, one sais like this, one sais like that... This looks like it will get complicated again. I would even say, that I think Wild surge only works with wilder-poweres. Class abilities that enhance other classes' abilities - or even racial abilities, that looks wrong to me. And at last in the case of psi-like abilities, this can be brought into accordance with the wording of the rules. At least I think so. |
| NiQil09-01-05, 03:30 PM | Well, normally his energy ray is 1d6 +1 (ML 1), with another +1 for point blank shot for 1d6+2. He crited, making it 2d6+4, then psionic shot is added on for 4d6+4. He had it right. Also, ch'ch'ili cannot wild surge its energy ray because the ability specifically says "a wilder can choose to invoke a wild surge whenever she manifests a power". Since the energy ray is a psi-like ability and not an actual power, it cannot be wild surged. Still, that had come a little too close for comfort. Also, I will be running the Sdentch vs Sam fight shortly. On the contrary... Psi-Like Abilities (Ps): The manifestation of powers by a psionic character is considered a psi-like ability, as is the manifestation of powers by creatures without a psionic class (creatures with the psionic subtype, also simply called psionic creatures). Usually, a psionic creature’s psi-like ability works just like the power of that name. A few psi-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described. Psi-like abilities have no verbal, somatic, or material components, nor do they require a focus or have an XP cost (even if the equivalent power has an XP cost). The user activates them mentally. Armor never affects a psi-like ability’s use. A psi-like ability has a manifesting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability description. In all other ways, a psi-like ability functions just like a power. However, a psionic creature does not have to pay a psi-like ability’s power point cost. Psi-like abilities are subject to power resistance and to being dispelled by dispel psionics. They do not function in areas where psionics is suppressed or negated. I would say, based on this text, that a psi-like ability can be wild-surged, since it is merely a power without a power point expenditure. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. |
| Altaris1309-01-05, 03:34 PM | @Usurpator: Scared? No. But you'll my comments when the battle is posted. ;) @Maraxus: you can use "wild surge" when ever you "manifest" a power, right? You have to manifest a power to use a psi-like ability, right? At least, that is the way I thought it was. Er... What NiQil said. :D |
| TelinArtho09-01-05, 03:38 PM | My second fight is up: Torgirr vs Yoriko (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7133572) This one was tough to run, so bear that in mind when/if you write comments. I did find it funny that Torgirr wrote very specifically what he thought Yoriko would do and Yoriko didn't do a single thing on his list... /d |
| Gonbow09-01-05, 03:38 PM | More specific than the blurb at the start of the psionic section is that found in the Monsters section. PSI-LIKE ABILITIES Most psionic monsters have some number of psi-like abilities. These are very similar to spell-like abilities. Naturally, they are psionic and work just like powers or spells. A creature with psi-like abilities does not pay for these abilities with power points and does not pay any XP cost associated with manifesting the power the ability duplicates. Psi-like abilities do not work in a null psionics field and are subject to power resistance if the power or spell the ability duplicates would be subject to power resistance. A psi-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A psi-like ability that can be used at will has no use limit. Using a psi-like ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise, and doing so while threatened provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a Concentration check to use a psi-like ability defensively and avoid provoking attacks of opportunity, just as when using a power or casting a spell. A psi-like ability can be interrupted just as a spell can be. Psi-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. All creatures with psi-like abilities are assigned a manifester level, which indicates how difficult it is to dispel their psi-like effects and determines all level-dependent variables (such as range or duration) the abilities might have. When a creature uses a psi-like ability, the power is manifested as if the creature had spent a number of power points equal to its manifester level, which may augment the power to improve its damage or save DC. However, the creature does not actually spend power points for its psi-like abilities, even if it has a power point reserve due to racial abilities, class levels, or some other psionic ability. The DC of a saving throw (if applicable) against a creature’s psi-like ability is 10 + the level of the power or spell the ability duplicates + the creature’s Cha modifier. Remember to check the power’s Augment entry to see if the creature’s manifester level (and thus the effective power point expenditure) increases the DC of the saving throw. Changes to the effect’s save DC, damage, and so on are noted in the psi-like ability entry. Whew! Big chunk of qoute, just check out the parts I bolded. It seems that when you use psi-like abilities, you are manifesting a power. Now, IMHO, I thought Wild Surge wouldn't work with psi-like abilities; Or I would have made a dromite wilder instead of a gray elf psion! But as it stands... They do. Let's quote out the wild surge text, shall we? Wild Surge (Su): A wilder can let her passion and emotion rise to the surface in a wild surge when she manifests a power. During a wild surge, a wilder gains phenomenal psionic strength, but may harm herself by the reckless use of her power (see Psychic Enervation, below). A wilder can choose to invoke a wild surge whenever she manifests a power. When she does so, she gains +1 to her manifester level with that manifestation of the power. The manifester level boost gives her the ability to augment her powers to a higher degree than she otherwise could; however, she pays no extra power point for this wild surge. Instead, the additional 1 power point that would normally be required to augment the power is effectively supplied by the wild surge. Level-dependent power effects are also improved, depending on the power a wilder manifests with her wild surge. This improvement in manifester level does not grant her any other benefits (psicrystal abilities do not advance, she does not gain higher-level class abilities, and so on). She cannot use the Overchannel psionic feat and invoke her wild surge at the same time. At 3rd level, a wilder can choose to boost her manifester level by two instead of one. At 7th level, she can boost her manifester level by up to three; at 11th level, by up to four; at 15th level, by up to five; and at 19th level, by up to six. In all cases, the wild surge effectively pays the extra power point cost that is normally required to augment the power; only the unaugmented power point cost is subtracted from the wilder’s power point reserve. Hey hey! Wilders can surge whenever they manifest a power, according to the part I've bolded! So... Groovy! |
| sloisel09-01-05, 03:46 PM | Tatyana Malvont (Gonbow) vs Gang Lion (Sloisel): Nightbanegod: tactics sent by email. Mrs. Buttmunch (Sloisel) vs Kraegin (TelinArtho): Gonbow: tactics sent by email. |
| Maraxus09-01-05, 04:01 PM | Of, cause, if you take this by the word, this would also mean, that a wilder can wild sourge psionic items, too. It would also mean, that stuff that works on "spells", like metamagic rods, would work on spell-like abilities as well. I would say: While psi-like abilities work like psionic poweres, they are no poweres, so effects that effect powers don't work on psi-like-abilities. |
| TheMagister09-01-05, 04:05 PM | My second fight is up: Torgirr vs Yoriko (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7133572) This one was tough to run, so bear that in mind when/if you write comments. I did find it funny that Torgirr wrote very specifically what he thought Yoriko would do and Yoriko didn't do a single thing on his list... /d I couldn't find anything wrong with the way you ran the fight. Honestly, if I had rolled only a TAD better on the damage rolls, I'd be the winner. Again, can't fight the dice. In my opinion, it was worth the wasted round to try to catch her flatfooted. That burning damage would've put her on the defensive, and the followup melee would've finished her nicely. It WAS a surprise that she came right for me. You played my hit-and-run tactics perfectly. It was a shame that the tanglefoot only lasted for 2 rounds (darn dice strike again). I think I had the better tactics and the weaker character. Thanks for running a clean fight! TM |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-01-05, 04:14 PM | Caspian vs Rebreg is up. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7133477&postcount=316 |
| NiQil09-01-05, 04:18 PM | Couple of things....in the fight results...edit in that I also used a tattoo of force screen...and also edit in the 60 gp I earned from Craft: Masonry. |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-01-05, 04:25 PM | you told me about the craft and i still forgot. |
| Mind Rogue09-01-05, 04:29 PM | Sdentch vs Sam is up. @ Telin I'll look at your fight, but it sounds like I'm going to like the results. |
| Delusional Illusion09-01-05, 04:31 PM | First fight of the week is done. Mini vs Wlandra (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7131950) Oh well, I was hoping for a little different outcome but who wouldn't when they've lost ;) . I think you could have made her shoot more often and not double moving, but the outcome would propably still be the same. Lol, I guess I better start practicing to make better tactics for the next time. I'm too lousy at this ;) |
| TheMagister09-01-05, 04:41 PM | Sdentch vs Sam is up. Ouch. When Sdentch gets the dice, she puts a hurtin' on ya. Quick. Thanks for the run, Mind Rogue. TM |
| Mind Rogue09-01-05, 04:45 PM | @ Telin Okay, my limited comments Round 5: The reflex save to use deflect arrows was removed in the 3.5 update, which means that Yoriko would have deflected the bag. Round 7: While it doesn't specifically say it, I'd assume that breaking free from the tanglefoot bag is at least a standard action, which would prevent Yoriko from readying an attack. That's basically it, aside from minor tactical things (the tattoo was for if I had a sec before entering melee and how Torgirr readied to throw when he said to do dual throw [even though he didn't take it]). I still have no clue what I was thinking trying to trip a dwarf. Overall, I don't think it was really enough to warrant an edit unless my foe desires it. |
| TelinArtho09-01-05, 04:52 PM | @MindRogue: There's no reflex save in round 5 and there's no deflect because Yoriko is caught flat-footed (did not see him where he was hiding). The reflex save there is for avoiding being glued. Round 7, yeah - it could go either way. Some things are standard and others are move - heck Entangle is a full round action. You are right though, you probably wouldn't have been able to ready. You almost said too much... I had forgotten about the dwarf's stability bonus, but after checking the rolls, there isn't a single case where a +4 would have mattered. |
| King Uther09-01-05, 04:58 PM | @ Maraxus I have a habit of commenting when I have little time and thus do not look at every facet. You are right about the pp thing. On the other hand, it is arguable as to whether or not a wild-surge can be applied to his psi-like ability. |
| TheMagister09-01-05, 05:01 PM | @MindRogue: There's no reflex save in round 5 and there's no deflect because Yoriko is caught flat-footed (did not see him where he was hiding). You almost said too much... I had forgotten about the dwarf's stability bonus, but after checking the rolls, there isn't a single case where a +4 would have mattered. Yeah...I noticed that... I actually expected you to grapple. You'd've had me totally over a barrel if you did that. Round 7, yeah - it could go either way. Some things are standard and others are move - heck Entangle is a full round action. You are right though, you probably wouldn't have been able to ready. Breaking free is a FULL ROUND action, just FYI. If you keep the themed attacks where they are, Torgirr would get just one more round to attack Yoriko. ...I might like to see that, since Mind Rogue is amenable to it. TM |
| TelinArtho09-01-05, 05:05 PM | All that would change is that Yoriko wouldn't have bothered throwing the javelin - dropped it and five foot stepped to engage you. I don't see how this would change anything. |
| TheMagister09-01-05, 05:09 PM | All that would change is that Yoriko wouldn't have bothered throwing the javelin - dropped it and five foot stepped to engage you. I don't see how this would change anything. No, I misspoke myself. She stays entangled through the entirety of round 7 (starts breaking free on her initiative and finishes on her initiative of round 8, if the goo hadn't given out at the end of round 7 anyways). With the -4 penalty to her DEX for being entangled at the time of torgirr's attack, her touch AC drops from 16 to 14. My 2nd alkyfire HIT!! Holy crow, I think I won!!!!! TM |
| TelinArtho09-01-05, 05:15 PM | Breaking free is a FULL ROUND action, just FYI. Show me where it says that. I've looked in every place that I can and here's some examples (note that nothing that I see specifically accounts for Tanglefoot Bags...): 1. Entangle spell (full round action to break free AND move half your speed) 2. Breaking a grapple (standard action/attack action) 3. Sunder a weapon (attack action) |
| Shaken, not Stunned09-01-05, 05:20 PM | It is. The SRD is linked in my sig if you are really interested. I have not read so I have no idea who I am backing up in saying that, but breaking away with out provoking an AoO and moving your movement can be performed as a full round action. |
| NiQil09-01-05, 05:28 PM | As far as I can find, the only thing that says what kind of action it is is the Entangle spell, but the Entangle spell is not quite the same as the condition of being entangled (for instance, the DC for the spell is higher than the condition itself, as far as breaking free is concerned). But in light of the fact that they all create the same condition, until I find something more definitive, I would tend to agree with TheMagister in that it requires a full round action, since the only thing I have found so far that deal with Entangle says it is a full round action. I'll keep looking. |
| TelinArtho09-01-05, 05:29 PM | Shaken - we're not talking about withdrawing. What's being discussed is breaking free of a tanglefoot bag and whether it is a full round action. If it is, then Torgirr's alchemist fire might have hit (I'll explain why it is a might instead of a would in just a minute), and this could have escalated to the end of the battle and make a difference down the line. The reason why I said might: Well, I didn't do the deflection right for Yoriko. I took the two attacks and just made the first one auto-miss. However, if the first one misses, then the second one hits - the second one would have been deflected. So, in other words, I'll need to add a second roll in there for the alchy fire to show that it missed (in which case nothing would change, regardless) or that it hit (in which case, it is imperative that we know what kind of action breaking free is... /d |
| NiQil09-01-05, 05:31 PM | Shaken - we're not talking about withdrawing. What's being discussed is breaking free of a tanglefoot bag and whether it is a full round action. If it is, then Torgirr's alchemist fire might have hit (I'll explain why it is a might instead of a would in just a minute), and this could have escalated to the end of the battle and make a difference down the line. The reason why I said might: Well, I didn't do the deflection right for Yoriko. I took the two attacks and just made the first one auto-miss. However, if the first one misses, then the second one hits - the second one would have been deflected. So, in other words, I'll need to add a second roll in there for the alchy fire to show that it missed (in which case nothing would change, regardless) or that it hit (in which case, it is imperative that we know what kind of action breaking free is... /d Honestly, to save yourself some headaches, I would go ahead and make the second roll first to see if we even need to continue hunting. If it hits, then we can hunt and/or get a ruling. If it misses, then all of this is moot anyway. |
| Mind Rogue09-01-05, 05:35 PM | No, I misspoke myself. She stays entangled through the entirety of round 7 (starts breaking free on her initiative and finishes on her initiative of round 8, if the goo hadn't given out at the end of round 7 anyways). With the -4 penalty to her DEX for being entangled at the time of torgirr's attack, her touch AC drops from 16 to 14. My 2nd alkyfire HIT!! Holy crow, I think I won!!!!! TM Nope. A full-round action is seperate from a full-round spell. Even if breaking free is a full-round action, it finishes during my turn, so my AC would return to normal before you can attack. My bad on reading the tanglefoot bag though. However, all it does is mean I won't be using my javelin, which missed anyway. Still, I should have grappled, even if I didn't bother using enlarge, since it would give me a better than 50/50 shot at hurting you, and your damage would be nerfed. Without it, I would have been at +8 to +6 or +6/+6 to +6, or I would have +13 or +11/+11 if I decided to cash in on my potion (not the +12 that you said I had). I'm glad to hear at least that trying to trip a dwarf was inconsequential. |
| TheMagister09-01-05, 05:36 PM | Show me where it says that. I've looked in every place that I can and here's some examples (note that nothing that I see specifically accounts for Tanglefoot Bags...): 1. Entangle spell (full round action to break free AND move half your speed) 2. Breaking a grapple (standard action/attack action) 3. Sunder a weapon (attack action) 1. That's the first one I looked at after perusing the TFB description. The text does imply that you can use a full-round action to both break free AND move 1/2 your speed, but that's impossible. Even someone who makes their save vs. the spell can only move 1/2 their speed and then take a standard action or another move. So if you get entangled, you get 3.0 hasted? LOL! (not laughing at you, just at the idea) 2. Breaking a grapple is making a grapple check, which is why it's a standard action. Really this isn't a good comparison, b/c you aren't escaping with a STR (ability) check. 3. Sunder a weapon doesn't apply b/c it's an attack. Unfortunately, I can't find where it says that ability checks made to break objects with sudden force rather than by dealing damage are any specific amount of time. I checked the DMG and the PHB. That means that it's totally up to you how long it takes someone to break free of being anchored with a tanglefoot bag. However, even if she breaks free, that's just the anchoring effect she's getting out of. She's still entangled until the goo becomes brittle and ineffective. This may all be moot. She's subject to the -4 penalty even after she breaks free of the anchoring effect. Do you agree? TM |
| Altaris1309-01-05, 05:38 PM | Tanglefoot Bag When you throw a tanglefoot bag at a creature (as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet), the bag comes apart and the goo bursts out, entangling the target and then becoming tough and resilient upon exposure to air. An entangled creature takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be glued to the floor, unable to move. Even on a successful save, it can move only at half speed. Huge or larger creatures are unaffected by a tanglefoot bag. A flying creature is not stuck to the floor, but it must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be unable to fly (assuming it uses its wings to fly) and fall to the ground. A tanglefoot bag does not function underwater. A creature that is glued to the floor (or unable to fly) can break free by making a DC 17 Strength check or by dealing 15 points of damage to the goo with a slashing weapon. A creature trying to scrape goo off itself, or another creature assisting, does not need to make an attack roll; hitting the goo is automatic, after which the creature that hit makes a damage roll to see how much of the goo was scraped off. Once free, the creature can move (including flying) at half speed. A character capable of spellcasting who is bound by the goo must make a DC 15 Concentration check to cast a spell. The goo becomes brittle and fragile after 2d4 rounds, cracking apart and losing its effectiveness. An application of universal solvent to a stuck creature dissolves the alchemical goo immediately. Entangled The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell. Entangle Transmutation Level: Drd 1, Plant 1, Rgr 1 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) Area: Plants in a 40-ft.-radius spread Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Reflex partial; see text Spell Resistance: No Grasses, weeds, bushes, and even trees wrap, twist, and entwine about creatures in the area or those that enter the area, holding them fast and causing them to become entangled. The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check. A creature that succeeds on a Reflex save is not entangled but can still move at only half speed through the area. Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement. Note: The effects of the spell may be altered somewhat, based on the nature of the entangling plants. Web Conjuration (Creation) Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Effect: Webs in a 20-ft.-radius spread Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Reflex negates; see text Spell Resistance: No Web creates a many-layered mass of strong, sticky strands. These strands trap those caught in them. The strands are similar to spider webs but far larger and tougher. These masses must be anchored to two or more solid and diametrically opposed points or else the web collapses upon itself and disappears. Creatures caught within a web become entangled among the gluey fibers. Attacking a creature in a web won’t cause you to become entangled. Anyone in the effect’s area when the spell is cast must make a Reflex save. If this save succeeds, the creature is entangled, but not prevented from moving, though moving is more difficult than normal for being entangled (see below). If the save fails, the creature is entangled and can’t move from its space, but can break loose by spending 1 round and making a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 25 Escape Artist check. Once loose (either by making the initial Reflex save or a later Strength check or Escape Artist check), a creature remains entangled, but may move through the web very slowly. Each round devoted to moving allows the creature to make a new Strength check or Escape Artist check. The creature moves 5 feet for each full 5 points by which the check result exceeds 10. If you have at least 5 feet of web between you and an opponent, it provides cover. If you have at least 20 feet of web between you, it provides total cover. The strands of a web spell are flammable. A magic flaming sword can slash them away as easily as a hand brushes away cobwebs. Any fire can set the webs alight and burn away 5 square feet in 1 round. All creatures within flaming webs take 2d4 points of fire damage from the flames. Web can be made permanent with a permanency spell. A permanent web that is damaged (but not destroyed) regrows in 10 minutes. Material Component A bit of spider web. Hampered Movement Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement. When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move. If more than one condition applies, multiply together all additional costs that apply. (This is a specific exception to the normal rule for doubling) In some situations, your movement may be so hampered that you don’t have sufficient speed even to move 5 feet (1 square). In such a case, you may use a full-round action to move 5 feet (1 square) in any direction, even diagonally. Even though this looks like a 5-foot step, it’s not, and thus it provokes attacks of opportunity normally. (You can’t take advantage of this rule to move through impassable terrain or to move when all movement is prohibited to you.) You can’t run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement. Since these are all very sever situations or magical situations, I think we ought to rule that a Tangle Foot bag only requires a standard action to break free. After all, it is only an ability check. |
| TelinArtho09-01-05, 05:43 PM | Actually, I just realized I made another mistake, so regardless of the result of the breaking of the goo - there's still an issue. First, as TheMagister pointed out, even after breaking the goo from the ground, the person is still entangled. Worse yet, the duration I rolled for the glue was 3 rounds, not 2 - so there's a bunch more things that need to go on here. I don't have the time to finish them up tonight, so I'll take a look tomorrow morning (sorry to keep everyone waiting). |
| TheMagister09-01-05, 05:43 PM | Anyone in the effect’s area when the spell is cast must make a Reflex save. If this save succeeds, the creature is entangled, but not prevented from moving, though moving is more difficult than normal for being entangled (see below). If the save fails, the creature is entangled and can’t move from its space, but can break loose by spending 1 round and making a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 25 Escape Artist check. Once loose (either by making the initial Reflex save or a later Strength check or Escape Artist check), a creature remains entangled, but may move through the web very slowly. Each round devoted to moving allows the creature to make a new Strength check or Escape Artist check. The creature moves 5 feet for each full 5 points by which the check result exceeds 10. Not a good example for that reason. She takes the -4 penalty through Torgirr's attacks. That's the important thing (to me) at this point. Now, Telin has a point about the deflect arrows thing. That's his decision. TM |
| NiQil09-01-05, 05:44 PM | 1. That's the first one I looked at after perusing the TFB description. The text does imply that you can use a full-round action to both break free AND move 1/2 your speed, but that's impossible. Even someone who makes their save vs. the spell can only move 1/2 their speed and then take a standard action or another move. So if you get entangled, you get 3.0 hasted? LOL! (not laughing at you, just at the idea) 2. Breaking a grapple is making a grapple check, which is why it's a standard action. Really this isn't a good comparison, b/c you aren't escaping with a STR (ability) check. 3. Sunder a weapon doesn't apply b/c it's an attack. Unfortunately, I can't find where it says that ability checks made to break objects with sudden force rather than by dealing damage are any specific amount of time. I checked the DMG and the PHB. That means that it's totally up to you how long it takes someone to break free of being anchored with a tanglefoot bag. However, even if she breaks free, that's just the anchoring effect she's getting out of. She's still entangled until the goo becomes brittle and ineffective. This may all be moot. She's subject to the -4 penalty even after she breaks free of the anchoring effect. Do you agree? TM I would...since the condition of entanglement still exists until whatever is causing the entangle goes away, which will not occur until the bag breaks apart. Tanglefoot Bag: When you throw a tanglefoot bag at a creature (as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet), the bag comes apart and the goo bursts out, entangling the target and then becoming tough and resilient upon exposure to air. An entangled creature takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be glued to the floor, unable to move. Even on a successful save, it can move only at half speed. Huge or larger creatures are unaffected by a tanglefoot bag. A flying creature is not stuck to the floor, but it must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be unable to fly (assuming it uses its wings to fly) and fall to the ground. A tanglefoot bag does not function underwater. A creature that is glued to the floor (or unable to fly) can break free by making a DC 17 Strength check or by dealing 15 points of damage to the goo with a slashing weapon. A creature trying to scrape goo off itself, or another creature assisting, does not need to make an attack roll; hitting the goo is automatic, after which the creature that hit makes a damage roll to see how much of the goo was scraped off. Once free, the creature can move (including flying) at half speed. A character capable of spellcasting who is bound by the goo must make a DC 15 Concentration check to cast a spell. The goo becomes brittle and fragile after 2d4 rounds, cracking apart and losing its effectiveness. An application of universal solvent to a stuck creature dissolves the alchemical goo immediately. |
| King Uther09-01-05, 05:46 PM | @Huan Tactics for Balbanes have been sent via PM. Have some fun with it. @Gonbow We agreed to kill each other via melee, so I hope you stuck to that. I wrote a really mean contingency for archery that you cannot counter or do anything about. |
| NiQil09-01-05, 05:47 PM | Actually, I just realized I made another mistake, so regardless of the result of the breaking of the goo - there's still an issue. First, as TheMagister pointed out, even after breaking the goo from the ground, the person is still entangled. Worse yet, the duration I rolled for the glue was 3 rounds, not 2 - so there's a bunch more things that need to go on here. I don't have the time to finish them up tonight, so I'll take a look tomorrow morning (sorry to keep everyone waiting). DOH! The ultimate cliffhanger, with the result hanging in the balance. Can the monk escape the sinister trap? Can the dwarf follow through with his well-though out plan? Tune in next week! Same bat time, same bat channel. |
| TheMagister09-01-05, 05:48 PM | SUSPENSE!!! Man, I'm not going to know the outcome for a WEEK! Oh, the humanity! =) Good luck, Mind Rogue! May my superior 'strategery' prevail! TM |
| Usurpator09-01-05, 05:56 PM | @Luni Tactics for Nexa in the free-for-all fight vs. Kregor and Grik sent! |
| Gonbow09-01-05, 06:22 PM | @Huan Tactics for Balbanes have been sent via PM. Have some fun with it. @Gonbow We agreed to kill each other via melee, so I hope you stuck to that. I wrote a really mean contingency for archery that you cannot counter or do anything about. Well... I did? :cool: Here, I'll give you a quote from the PM I sent Huan. Hopefully this will be an interesting fight for you as it is for us! Challenge rules: Balbanes and Yasha agreed to a melee duel, and to not utilize invisibility. So please have Yasha act accordingly when possible, even if it is a little stupid, I won't complain, I promise ;) I think that made my intention to beat you down in melee pretty clear. |
| Altaris1309-01-05, 06:48 PM | Wow. And why wasn't this challenge announced so we could all join in the trash talking & wagers? ;) |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-01-05, 06:52 PM | Acutally they've been talking about it all day yesterday. |
| SoulLord09-01-05, 07:26 PM | sounds fun... *ponders how vandelar would fare against other wizards in a melee fight or an archery shootout.* |
| King Uther09-01-05, 07:32 PM | Draconis Regina vs a custom Hippogriff (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7135967&postcount=318) is here. This was the longest, most difficult fight I've ever done. It took sheer guts and determination for the winner to succeed. |
| Faroth09-01-05, 07:45 PM | @Ellorien: Tactics sent see u |
| Maraxus09-01-05, 07:58 PM | Why did the hippogriffin drop unconcious? |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-01-05, 07:58 PM | @Faroth Tactics received |
| Cerebus1309-01-05, 08:16 PM | @TelinArtho & Shaken, Not Stunned Recieved your tactics, will run the fight this weekend! |
| nightbanegod09-01-05, 08:19 PM | AWWWW my horseman didnt get paired... i must have forgotten to update his TITLE to ready for 8/31.... any way i could get him into a monster fight ? so that at least he gets to fight something this week? ANY LOVE FROM PITLORDS account? |
| Luni09-01-05, 08:23 PM | Concerning my loyal gladiators. # All vs All Fights: These work similar to Team Fights with the difference that there are no teams but everyone fights everyone. The number of gladiators is either 3 or 4. This kind of fight may be requested by the players with a maximum difference in ECL of +2, or may be randomly picked by the GM with no difference in ECL. Rules: In an All vs All fight, everyone has a target which is determined by the order characters are listed in the Pairings Post: A -> B -> C -> D -> A. You may attack any gladiator but you will only get rewards for killed targets. Once you have defeated your target, you will immedeately and automatically get your target's target. You will receive winner rewards for every target of yours that has been defeatedx. If you have defeated no one you will still gain loser rewards as if you had fought a 1v1 match vs your target. xDefinition 'defeated': target is dead, unconscious, or helpless with no chance to rejoin on its own. To receive rewards this state must still apply at the end of the fight. If your target gets anyhow revived again during the fight, you get your original target reassigned and no winner rewards until it is defeated (again). While, I don't mind you guys killing the other person first, just be aware that the experience is not awarded to whomever gets the kill. @Whomever: I'll send Talari's tactics out later tonight. |
| King Uther09-01-05, 08:25 PM | Because I linked the Griffon and not the hippogriff. The hippogriff only has 25 hp. |
| Maraxus09-01-05, 08:56 PM | Concerning my loyal gladiators. While, I don't mind you guys killing the other person first, just be aware that the experience is not awarded to whomever gets the kill. @Whomever: I'll send Talari's tactics out later tonight. "Sleep" is good, even more in a 4player hunter match. :) Sleep your target's target, bring it to a hiding spot, hunt down your target and then return for the killing blow once you get paied for it. :) Also, I think Zassl should pack a scroll of disguise self, in case he lands in such a match. :) King Uther: Yes, this is a good reason. :D |
| Gonbow09-01-05, 09:32 PM | Wow. And why wasn't this challenge announced so we could all join in the trash talking & wagers? ;) Well, while I cannot condone or suggest any kind of gambling... Who do you all think will win? Obviously we each think our own character has the advantage for whatever reason, but some 3rd party thoughts would be cool! So cast your vote now on Yasha (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6914071) vrs Balbanes (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6884101)! Some background: Both are undefeated. Balbanes is the incarnation of Life, sent to keep Death's many Avatars in check. Yasha is a mysterious foreign warrior, who claims to have no name, despite her current moniker. Balbanes 1: Magic missiled Mini down in one shot. Yasha 1: Defeated three other gladiators in a free for all by having an insanely large reach radius and power-attacking people while they were down. Balbanes 2: Dueled Nytar for awhile before managing to magic missile him down. Yasha 2: Dueled Juntar for a very long time before winning an archery contest. Balbanes 3: Teamed up with Daemon to take down Esmara and Zassl, again, a magic missile finishes the fight after awhile. Hmm. Seeing a pattern here... Yasha 3: Snuck up on Milo Tad and took him out in two mighty bows with her spiked chain. Hmmm, maybe a pattern here as well. |
| Meek Head09-01-05, 09:36 PM | @ Gonbow: Whoops, I sent you the wrong character's tactics. I'll send Dark Lord's if a little bit after I finish them. What is Malither's full screeen name? That is who they are supposed to have gone to. Thanks. |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-01-05, 09:41 PM | Lothan vs the snakes are up http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7136922&postcount=319 |
| Gonbow09-01-05, 09:44 PM | @ Gonbow: Whoops, I sent you the wrong character's tactics. I'll send Dark Lord's if a little bit after I finish them. What is Malither's full screeen name? That is who they are supposed to have gone to. Thanks. I /was/ wondering about that. Malither76 ; Much like Altaris, his numbers are dropped off of the pitlord list.. Can we change this please? =/ |
| King Uther09-01-05, 09:58 PM | Then how do you write tactics? I don't even have magic missile now. The highest ranked 3rd level vs the second highest 4th level. Who wins? That depends on 1 factor: Can you get a lucky hit? |
| Meek Head09-01-05, 10:01 PM | Tactics sent to Gonbow and Malither76. |
| Gonbow09-01-05, 10:11 PM | Oh the same way I've ever written tactics; to beat my opponent! ^_^ I was just reporting the facts anways, so people can make an informed decision. Unforunately, Zahrat is on a campaign or I would challenge her to take over that highest ranked slot ;) @Meek Head Tactics Recieved. I have tactics from both you and NiQil, so I'll be running this fight sooner (tonight or tomorrow) rather than later (like last week), rest assured. |
| SoulLord09-01-05, 10:56 PM | using a tatoo is a standard action but is using a tatoo with an inmediate action a standard action as well? I would rule yes it's also a standard action but I would like to confirm first. |
| Mind Rogue09-01-05, 11:02 PM | A pity Zahrat's on the campaign or I would accept the challenge. While Entangle isn't likely to work due to that will save of yours, that doesn't stop Heat Metal and Warp Wood, which use will saves (something that you appear to lack). Aside from that, you have to best both me and my animal companion, and total defense or combat expertise will help protect me from your attacks. So, while you're busy trying to take me down Zephyr will be wearing away your hp. Of course, if you decide to try to take her out first, she actually has a higher AC than I do and almost as many hp. Also, while you have a lot of buffs that you can use, you're not going to have the time to apply them all and they have pretty short durations (particularly if I am fighting defensively). So... all in all, I'd say it's an even fight. |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-02-05, 12:54 AM | Archie vs. Greefe is up. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7138278&postcount=320 |
| Snommelp09-02-05, 02:11 AM | Sdentch vs Sam is up. Sam's crossbow is heavy, so it takes a full round to reload. Doesn't do much, just saves a few bolts. |
| Usurpator09-02-05, 02:55 AM | While, I don't mind you guys killing the other person first, just be aware that the experience is not awarded to whomever gets the kill. You mean you don't get a winners share for either opponents if you manage to kill them both, but do so out of order? This means that the best general strategy would be to hide and wait. That way the other two gladiators will beat each other up, and weakened remaining gladiator is automatically your target. I don't think a combat setup that rewards a strategy of 'not participating' is a very good one. Because of the circular setup of the free-for-all technically you always have someone chasing you that you don't want to fight and someone avoiding you you want to kill. @Maraxus Your sleep example is a typical meta-gaming example. Normally, if you have one of your opponents down, it wouldn't make sense to make the kill later. @Luni Does this mean I have to instruct you not to have Nexa CDG Grik if he is down, but stand over him and give him cover against Kregor, while trying to kill Kregor? Maybe even cure him a little so he doesn't bleed to death in order for me to kill him later? |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-02-05, 03:09 AM | This means that the best general strategy would be to hide and wait. That way the other two gladiators will beat each other up, and weakened remaining gladiator is automatically your target. I don't think a combat setup that rewards a strategy of 'not participating' is a very good one No, a better tactic is to hold out, then right before either of them die, you kill your target, then kill the other guy. Two easy kills. |
| Luni09-02-05, 03:33 AM | @Luni Does this mean I have to instruct you not to have Nexa CDG Grik if he is down, but stand over him and give him cover against Kregor, while trying to kill Kregor? Maybe even cure him a little so he doesn't bleed to death in order for me to kill him later? Since gladiators with hp's in the negatives are considered "killed", you can heal them later before they bleed to death to get the xp for both of them. |
| Luni09-02-05, 04:26 AM | @nightbanegod: Tactics Sent! |
| Vathelokai09-02-05, 05:58 AM | using a tatoo is a standard action but is using a tatoo with an inmediate action a standard action as well? I would rule yes it's also a standard action but I would like to confirm first. Using a tatoo is always a standard action unless the power is longer then a standard action. Scroll ~ powerstone Dorje ~ wand tatoo ~ potion Pretty much, anyway. |
| NiQil09-02-05, 08:45 AM | So last night I had my graphic designer wife clean up our Arena Map, since she thought it looked a little hard to use. So she cleaned it up, made the numbering easier to see and to tell which columns/rows they belong to, and also changed the coordinate system to the standard Cartesian setup. With lots of people already making this change themselves in their individual battles, I think it would be a good idea to use this map as our new arena map. Take a look at it and let me know what you think. |
| Sunwolf09-02-05, 08:55 AM | @michael noah Tactics for Brilf sent by PM |
| Sunwolf09-02-05, 08:57 AM | @Niqil New map looks nice. |
| TelinArtho09-02-05, 08:58 AM | Well, the fight has been revised and the result has changed. As it turns out, that round of alchemist's fire plus following up with the reverse trip on Yoriko really damages Yoriko's chances. /d |
| michael_noah09-02-05, 09:27 AM | @Sunwolf and Pitbull: got the tactics. I'll PM back with questions (if there are any) later today, and hopefully have the fight up tomorrow. |
| Maraxus09-02-05, 10:15 AM | Ellorion Saenelle: Throwing weapons do not break, only amunition. |
| NiQil09-02-05, 10:22 AM | @Niqil New map looks nice. Thank you...I'll let my wife know. Any other thoughts on it? |
| NiQil09-02-05, 03:16 PM | Hurray...boards are back! |
| NiQil09-02-05, 03:17 PM | Since I posted this before the boards went down, it may have not gotten seen...so will repost So last night I had my graphic designer wife clean up our Arena Map, since she thought it looked a little hard to use. So she cleaned it up, made the numbering easier to see and to tell which columns/rows they belong to, and also changed the coordinate system to the standard Cartesian setup. With lots of people already making this change themselves in their individual battles, I think it would be a good idea to use this map as our new arena map. Take a look at it and let me know what you think. |
| Snommelp09-02-05, 03:44 PM | While, I don't mind you guys killing the other person first, just be aware that the experience is not awarded to whomever gets the kill.Thanks for the head's up, Luni. It'll be useful for later fights, probably. Won't effect Grik, though, since I'm trying to stay fairly true to his mental scores. |
| Snommelp09-02-05, 03:54 PM | Sam's crossbow is heavy, so it takes a full round to reload. Doesn't do much, just saves a few bolts. Just in case you missed this, Mind Rogue. Also, although one bolt doesn't matter much, could you roll to see if I can recover the second of two bolts Sam will shoot in this revised scenario? |
| nightbanegod09-02-05, 05:07 PM | AWWWW my horseman didnt get paired... i must have forgotten to update his TITLE to ready for 8/31.... any way i could get him into a monster fight ? so that at least he gets to fight something this week? any last minute love from Caterane? |
| Mind Rogue09-02-05, 05:13 PM | Okay, I've edited the crossbow bolts and the reload actions. I had actually rolled a d8 for damage because I thought it was a light crossbow, but the extra damage can't change the battle, so I'm not going to deal with it. @ Telin - Cursed dual-wielding Alky-fires. Oh well. Better luck next time. |
| Mind Rogue09-02-05, 05:33 PM | @ Telin I just noticed something. The tanglefoot bags and Alkyfires have a range increment of 10'. In round 7, Torgirr is standing 10' away, which incurs the -2 range penalty, which has not been added in to the calculations. This actually drops the touch attacks down to 17 and 13, one of which misses and the other is deflected. Likewise, the penalty is not counted on the tanglefoot bags, which drops the one that hit down to 15, which still hits because Yoriko is flat-footed. However, after mapping it out (and you forgot to update Yoriko's coordinates in round 5), there is a direct LoS between them. Torgirr would not be able to hide behind something, only in front of a pillar where he is clearly visible, meaning that Yoriko would have automatically spotted him, meaning his attack would have missed because she was not flat-footed, and thus she would never have been entangled in the first place. |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-02-05, 06:08 PM | Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed. A flat-footed character can’t make attacks of opportunity. I was just wondering how you can become flat-footed after you have made some type of movement in the battle. I thought you only started flat-footed. |
| NiQil09-02-05, 06:53 PM | I was just wondering how you can become flat-footed after you have made some type of movement in the battle. I thought you only started flat-footed. As far as I know, you are correct. However lots of people confuse being denied your Dexterity bonus with being flat-footed. While they are related, they are not the same thing. |
| xanadu09-02-05, 06:54 PM | Still need tactics from Kota and Indri. The behirs and wraiths are waiting :D |
| Mind Rogue09-02-05, 07:09 PM | I was just wondering how you can become flat-footed after you have made some type of movement in the battle. I thought you only started flat-footed. Yes, I am using bad terminology. I should be saying I was denied by Dex bonus against a hidden opponent, whom, I now realize, I had clean line of sight to (no cover). Which means I should have been denied my dex bonus, which, coupled with a missing range penalty, causes a particular attack to miss, although even without the range penalty, it would be deflected because of Deflect Arrows do to my now being aware of the attack. This realization is due to plotting it out and finding that no matter which way he chooses to orient the map, there is a direct line with no cover from square (-6, 4) to (-4, 3). This is assuming that the coordinate in the text is correct and the one in the round summary is false, since being in (-1, 3) instead of (-6, 4) actually grants total cover instead. |
| TelinArtho09-02-05, 08:52 PM | @Mindrogue - you are located at -6,4 and your opponent is located at -4,4 - that's a distance of 10 feet, which has no range penalty. 15 ft would be a penalty of -2. For the tanglefoot bags, he is at -4,3 - but that is still 10ft away according to the rules. Range increments work on a less than or equal to before gaining a penalty. As to the matter of being hidden, Torgirr is less than 6 feet away from his hiding spot (he has 6 ranks in hide) - and if you look in the rules of Gladius, he can remain hidden in this case if you fail your spot check. EDIT - Here's the excerpt from the Rules: (look under Arena Houserules) You are autospotted if you leave cover or concealment, and opponent has Line of Sight to you and you are more than 1 foot per rank in hide away from a cover. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-02-05, 09:13 PM | @Mindrogue - you are located at -6,4 and your opponent is located at -4,4 - that's a distance of 10 feet, which has no range penalty. 15 ft would be a penalty of -2. For the tanglefoot bags, he is at -4,3 - but that is still 10ft away according to the rules. Range increments work on a less than or equal to before gaining a penalty. This is incorrect. Range penalties work on a LESS ONLY than distance. The PHB is very clear on this and states a few examples throughout. Ranged weapons with a range increment of 10', suffer no penalty from 0'-9', but at 10'-19', they suffer -2. Don't ask me how an opponent will be at 9' away, but they give the examples and those examples are very clear. -ToK |
| TelinArtho09-02-05, 09:15 PM | Yup - I had just found that myself when I went to look it up... Figures I would be wrong on that. Okay, okay - another revision coming... |
| NiQil09-02-05, 09:21 PM | This is incorrect. Range penalties work on a LESS ONLY than distance. The PHB is very clear on this and states a few examples throughout. Ranged weapons with a range increment of 10', suffer no penalty from 0'-9', but at 10'-19', they suffer -2. Don't ask me how an opponent will be at 9' away, but they give the examples and those examples are very clear. -ToK Tellish is correct. From the PHB, page 114: Range Increment: Any attack at less that this distance is not penalized for range, so an arrow from a shorbow (range increment 60 feet) can strike at an enemy 59 feet away or closer with no penalty. However, each full range increment, imposes a cumulative -2 penalty on the attack roll. A shortbow archer firing at a target 200 feet away takes a -6 penalty on the attack roll (-2 X 3, because 200 feet is at least three range increments but not four). A thrown weapon, such as a throwing axe, has a maximum range of five range increments. A projectile weapon, such as a bow, can shoot out to ten range increments. |
| TelinArtho09-02-05, 09:25 PM | Its been fixed. And the result has changed again - Mind Rogue you can go back to rejoicing. |
| Gonbow09-02-05, 09:38 PM | Fight Status(es) Silas (NiQil) vs Dark Lord of the Sith (Meek Head): STALLED. Vital tactics error, Meek Head, please check your PMs. Victor (Laughing Dragon) vs Vivi (Dr.Funk): Tactics for Vivi recieved, tactics for Victor not recieved. Mrs. Buttmunch (Sloisel) vs Kraegin (TelinArtho): Tactics recieved. Setting up and running. EDIT: Mrs. Buttmunch (Sloisel) vs Kraegin (TelinArtho): STALLED. Seeking rules confirmation. TelinArtho, please check your PMs. Triple EDIT: PM recieved, setting up and running. Double EDIT: Re: Archie Longbow vs Greefe I'm seeing alot of 'Archie 5' north and casts magic missile(7 damage), then moves behind pillar, drawing another scroll.' and 'Archie casts another magic missile (7 damage), then flies to the east, drawing another sroll of magic missile.' Both these things are impossible. Instance one: You cannot take a 5' step and any other kind of movement in a turn. Instance two: Scrolls are NOT weapon-like objects and may NOT be drawn for free while moving. Unless you have a magic item to alter their availability, they will always take a move action to get out. (Work around: Get a scroll with multiple spells on it. One scroll can have up to 6 spells on it) |
| nightbanegod09-02-05, 10:06 PM | rather important... what is the hardness and HP of a spiked gauntlet? is it a weapon and determined as such or is it armor and has the HP of the armor bonus x5? |
| Gonbow09-02-05, 10:10 PM | rather important... what is the hardness and HP of a spiked gauntlet? is it a weapon and determined as such or is it armor and has the HP of the armor bonus x5? Well, it doesn't /have/ an armor bonus, and it certainly counts as a weapon for everything I can think of offhand, except it doesn't occupy the hand it is wielded in and cant be disarmed.. so i'd say determine it as a weapon. Obv, my opinion needs to be seconded by someone else, as this is probably about my fight. |
| nightbanegod09-02-05, 10:14 PM | Well, it doesn't /have/ an armor bonus, and it certainly counts as a weapon for everything I can think of offhand, except it doesn't occupy the hand it is wielded in and cant be disarmed.. so i'd say determine it as a weapon. Obv, my opinion needs to be seconded by someone else, as this is probably about my fight. next question... it it most certainly not a long sword or shortsword, nor a hafted weapon ... all of which have different hardness and HP.... |
| Snommelp09-02-05, 10:25 PM | next question... it it most certainly not a long sword or shortsword, nor a hafted weapon ... all of which have different hardness and HP.... I would consider it a light blade, but you may want a second opinion, because I could also see the argument for light metal-hafted weapon. |
| Gonbow09-02-05, 10:25 PM | next question... it it most certainly not a long sword or shortsword, nor a hafted weapon ... all of which have different hardness and HP.... A spiked gauntlet is most certainly a Light weapon of some kind, thus we can look at the list in the Special Attacks section of the SRD and narrow down the suspects.. Light blade. Hardness: 10 Hit points: 2 Arguement for: A spiked gauntlet, while not exactly a 'blade' weapon, is more or less on par with a dagger, and this is the category that includes daggers. Arguement against: A metal sheath that covers your hand should be in a different category from a bowie knife you hold in your hand. Light metal-hafted weapon Hardness: 10 Hit Points: 10 Arguement for: Made entirely of metal, the gauntlet part of a spiked gauntlet could be the 'haft' for this.. Argument against: Except that a spiked gauntlet clearly doesn't have a haft. It has an overgrown basket hilt and some spikes! Moreover, this would mean a spiked gauntlet is as tough to damage as a light shield made out of steel! The difference in size and density between the two points towards Spiked gauntlets NOT belonging here. Light hafted weapon Hardness: 5 Hit points: 2 Arguement for: The 'spikes' of the gauntlet, the part that does the actual damage, make up a very small part of the whole, thus creating a 'haft-like' situation. Arguement against: This is for weapons with metal heads and wooden shafts; not a situation all-metal spiked gauntlets fall into, clearly. IMHO: It should fall into Light Blade for the reaons I've laid out above. |
| nightbanegod09-02-05, 10:29 PM | A spiked gauntlet is most certainly a Light weapon of some kind, thus we can look at the list in the Special Attacks section of the SRD and narrow down the suspects.. Light blade. Hardness: 10 Hit points: 2 Arguement for: A spiked gauntlet, while not exactly a 'blade' weapon, is more or less on par with a dagger, and this is the category that includes daggers. Arguement against: A metal sheath that covers your hand should be in a different category from a bowie knife you hold in your hand. Light metal-hafted weapon Hardness: 10 Hit Points: 10 Arguement for: Made entirely of metal, the gauntlet part of a spiked gauntlet could be the 'haft' for this.. Argument against: Except that a spiked gauntlet clearly doesn't have a haft. It has an overgrown basket hilt and some spikes! Moreover, this would mean a spiked gauntlet is as tough to damage as a light shield made out of steel! The difference in size and density between the two points towards Spiked gauntlets NOT belonging here. Light hafted weapon Hardness: 5 Hit points: 2 Arguement for: The 'spikes' of the gauntlet, the part that does the actual damage, make up a very small part of the whole, thus creating a 'haft-like' situation. Arguement against: This is for weapons with metal heads and wooden shafts; not a situation all-metal spiked gauntlets fall into, clearly. IMHO: It should fall into Light Blade for the reaons I've laid out above. with this information ... and untill someone says otherwise, im considering it a light blade. Which considering the situation is irrelevant wether it is hafted or not since the only difference is hardness and my only concern is the HP of the item in question however, please feel free to extrapolate any conclusions you may at this juncture my next, important question at this point. is, the weapon that is a spiked light gauntlet... is it considered 2 weapons (left and right) or is it simply one weapon lastly, what saves are items awareded when targeted with attacks that are energy based and sonic so as to ignore hardness? reflex? but its an ITEM? |
| Huan09-02-05, 10:41 PM | @King Uther Tactics for Balbanes recieved, thank you. @Mind Rogue Tactics for Dameon are coming tonight, thank you for your patience. |
| Gonbow09-02-05, 10:45 PM | with this information ... and untill someone says otherwise, im considering it a light blade. Which considering the situation is irrelevant wether it is hafted or not since the only difference is hardness and my only concern is the HP of the item in question however, please feel free to extrapolate any conclusions you may at this juncture my next, important question at this point. is, the weapon that is a spiked light gauntlet... is it considered 2 weapons (left and right) or is it simply one weapon lastly, what saves are items awareded when targeted with attacks that are energy based and sonic so as to ignore hardness? reflex? but its an ITEM? A spiked gauntlet is one item, it only covers one hand. The price and cost in the SRD is for one such item; so he will only have one unless he paid double for a set of them. Attended items get the saves of their wearers. So Gang Lion gets a reflex save for half damage on every item of his I try to blast with Tatyana, but half damage or full, it ignores hardness. |
| Begferdeth09-02-05, 10:56 PM | Dang... another loss for Ch'Ch'Ili... But I have one quick question. In round 12, Alexi draws and drinks his second potion of healing. But drawing the potion is a move action, and drinking it is a standard one... And when you are disabled, you can only take one or the other! Should he have to wait until round 13 to suck that thing down? Probably wont help me any, but one more shot could do it. Plus I did have one more PP left... Ch'Ch'Ili has a crystal capacitor with one PP in it. Oh, now that Im looking... did you add my +1 point blank shot to the ectoplasmic goo stone I threw? That makes my attack a 21, which would hit. Ch'Ch'Ili may still have a chance! |
| nightbanegod09-02-05, 11:10 PM | A spiked gauntlet is one item, it only covers one hand. The price and cost in the SRD is for one such item; so he will only have one unless he paid double for a set of them. Attended items get the saves of their wearers. So Gang Lion gets a reflex save for half damage on every item of his I try to blast with Tatyana, but half damage or full, it ignores hardness. just what i was looking for... and depending on the damage you deal ... the save may or may not even matter since at half damage you still obliterate his weapons... its soo not fair but thats how it goes |
| Gonbow09-02-05, 11:15 PM | just what i was looking for... and depending on the damage you deal ... the save may or may not even matter since at half damage you still obliterate his weapons... its soo not fair but thats how it goes 'Not fair' is why I make half my characters! ^_^ Yasha is 'not fair' if you come within 20' of her and arn't huge. Tatyana is 'not fair' if you need equipment, don't have improved reflexes and come within LOS of her. :devil: The other half, of course, are interesting. Actually, more like other two thirds. Terminus-Est didn't do so well, and is more or less retired. (Rogues get the short end of the stick, at low levels at least). Santos is holding his own, I'm going to keep him around for mega cool points at high levels (running across the arena and kicking someone in the head = Sw33t!) Lorvatos is just... odd. What with no opposable thumbs and all. :rolleyes: Nicolae isn't anything special, and has horrible horrible dice luck in his campaign. He'll come out interesting though. |
| NiQil09-02-05, 11:52 PM | Umm....I think I see a big hole in Tatyana's tactics here..... Energy Missile Psychokinesis [see text] Level: Kineticist 2 Display: Auditory Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./ level) Targets: Up to five creatures or objects; no two targets can be more than 15 ft. apart. Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex half or Fortitude half; see text Power Resistance: Yes Power Points: 3 Upon manifesting this power, you choose cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You release a powerful missile of energy of the chosen type at your foe. The missile deals 3d6 points of damage to each creature or object you target, to the maximum of five targets. You cannot hit the same target multiple times with the same manifestation of this power. Cold: A missile of this energy type deals +1 point of damage per die. The saving throw to reduce damage from a cold missile is a Fortitude save instead of a Reflex save. Electricity: Manifesting a missile of this energy type provides a +2 bonus to the save DC and a +2 bonus on manifester level checks for the purpose of overcoming power resistance. Fire: A missile of this energy type deals +1 point of damage per die. Sonic: A missile of this energy type deals –1 point of damage per die and ignores an object’s hardness. This power’s subtype is the same as the type of energy you manifest. Augment: For every additional power point you spend, this power’s damage increases by one die (d6) and its save DC increases by 1. I'm still hunting for it....but I swear I just saw something in the FAQ or something that said you cannot target someone and then go back and target their equipment....I may be wrong....but I am still looking. |
| Luni09-03-05, 12:01 AM | But I have one quick question. In round 12, Alexi draws and drinks his second potion of healing. But drawing the potion is a move action, and drinking it is a standard one... And when you are disabled, you can only take one or the other! Actually, you can do both while being disabled. You just take 1 damage after the 2nd action is completed. |
| Gonbow09-03-05, 12:04 AM | Umm....I think I see a big hole in Tatyana's tactics here..... I'm still hunting for it....but I swear I just saw something in the FAQ or something that said you cannot target someone and then go back and target their equipment....I may be wrong....but I am still looking. Well, that would be unforunate for my character if it were true, but pages 44 and 45 of the main FAQ is where such things would be, yes? And I'm not seeing any mention of energy missile on em. Keep us updated if you find something. |
| TelinArtho09-03-05, 12:08 AM | Actually, you can do both while being disabled. You just take 1 damage after the 2nd action is completed. When you are disabled you can do a move action safely (no hp loss) or a standard action (for -1 hp) - not both. From the SRD: DISABLED (0 HIT POINTS) When your current hit points drop to exactly 0, you’re disabled. You can only take a single move or standard action each turn (but not both, nor can you take full-round actions). You can take move actions without further injuring yourself, but if you perform any standard action (or any other strenuous action) you take 1 point of damage after the completing the act. Unless your activity increased your hit points, you are now at –1 hit points, and you’re dying. Healing that raises your hit points above 0 makes you fully functional again, just as if you’d never been reduced to 0 or fewer hit points. You can also become disabled when recovering from dying. In this case, it’s a step toward recovery, and you can have fewer than 0 hit points (see Stable Characters and Recovery, below). |
| TelinArtho09-03-05, 12:21 AM | @Kaigan - still have not received tactics for your character. I don't have as much time this week as the past few - so I don't have as much leeway to work with. |
| Mind Rogue09-03-05, 12:31 AM | Well, Begferdeth is right about the potion, Alexi can't both draw the potion and drink it while disabled, but all it does is push everything back a round. Since Ch'ch'ili is now set to having to use his shortspear, a critical for him would be 2d4-2 (you forgot your strength penalty) which is at most 6 damage; not enough to drop Alexi. The Cognizance Crystal might do something, but you have to get lucky and have Alexi fail his save AND roll at least 9 points of damage, 10 in order to keep him from drawing another healing potion anyway. @ Telin I know that if he is near cover, he can try to dash for safety, but he was not within 6 ft of cover (or at least when Yoriko took her move), meaning he was autospotted, so the point is irrelevent. The locations of the characters should have been updated in round 5 though. I do find the point that one is practically forced to take a range penalty with a grenade like weapon kind of funny (because you'll likely never use them in melee and they only have a 10 ft range) but that is how the rules work. @ Huan That works if you get it to me tomorrow, so long as I don't procrastinate on my lab prep. I should have time to do it this weekend. |
| TelinArtho09-03-05, 01:02 AM | I just want to post this as a clear example of hide and spot. If Torgirr didn't have ranks in hide, he would've been auto-spotted, but since he did, he's able to put himself in this position. If I am wrong in this description - let me know (and with some cited examples if possible) - because this is how I understand the rules as they are written in the SRD and in the Rules of Gladius regarding Sneaking (which I've quoted in a recent post). O O @ @ O O O O O t5@ @ y5O y6O O O @ O O @ @ t7O O O O t - Torgirr y - Yoriko Okay - here's the scenario. At the end of his move in round 4, Torgirr hides (@t5) and waits for Yoriko to come around the corner. Yoriko moves from y5 to y6 along the yellow path, and, at her closest point to Torgirr, makes a spot check to see him. She fails, so she finishes her move at y6. Since Torgirr was not spotted, he is able to attack Yoriko, denying her of her Dex bonus to AC. During this maneuver, Torgirr never moved away from the hiding spot - so he is, in essence 0-5 feet away from it. Since he has 6 ranks in hide, he is not auto-spotted. |
| King Uther09-03-05, 01:08 AM | It matters not in this scenario. Clearly cover is negated, and hide cannot work in that case. It is as simple as that. If you round the corner and Torgirr no longer has any cover, Torgirr no longer has the ability to hide. |
| Gonbow09-03-05, 01:11 AM | In the example, cover would be negated on the 4th square of movement by Y, and T would be auto-spotted, unless he had 15 or so ranks of hide. |
| TelinArtho09-03-05, 01:35 AM | Okay - it appears I've misunderstood then. Well noted. In that case, I guess I'll go in and revise it once more (since Torgirr's tactics would not have been followed if he hadn't successfully hidden...) and see what becomes of it. /d |
| nightbanegod09-03-05, 02:02 AM | ok this would have been posted sooner if i hadnt been watching the stargate marathon on SCIFI... Tatyana vs Gang Lion (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7143110&postcount=321) wow this was the longest fight ive ever ran :rofl: |
| King Uther09-03-05, 02:12 AM | Well, nightbanegod, as you might suspect, this fight cannot stand as is. Energy Missile cannot target him and his equipment because they are not unattended items. Otherwise Fireball would ruin all scrolls and wood equipment. And burn off all fur or hair. It's the rules. |
| NiQil09-03-05, 02:13 AM | Well, that would be unforunate for my character if it were true, but pages 44 and 45 of the main FAQ is where such things would be, yes? And I'm not seeing any mention of energy missile on em. Keep us updated if you find something. I know I have read this somewhere, but I can't for the life of me remember where. Since I can't remember, until I or someone else finds it in a quotable source, yer off the hook. |
| NiQil09-03-05, 02:16 AM | Well, nightbanegod, as you might suspect, this fight cannot stand as is. Energy Missile cannot target him and his equipment because they are not unattended items. Otherwise Fireball would ruin all scrolls and wood equipment. And burn off all fur or hair. It's the rules. I have looked and looked, Uther, and I can find nothing that restricts what can be struck with Energy Missile. The spell descriptor just says targets or objects, not unattended objects. I know I have read somewhere that you cannot strike a target and then also strike his weapons, armor, etc as well....but I cannot for the life of me remember where I saw this. If you can provide your source, that might be a great help. |
| TelinArtho09-03-05, 02:43 AM | Okay - I have rererevised the fight for Yoriko vs Torgirr again, and yet again the result has changed. Ironically enough, even though the spot should help Yoriko - it ends up just making it so Torgirr gets a few extra attacks in, and that's where the difference is. I'm sorry if this fight has been a drag for others (it has apparently been a learning experience for me), so if there's further dissent about it, please be calm about it (everyone's been great thus far, but I imagine patience is wearing thin on everyone...). /d |
| nightbanegod09-03-05, 02:57 AM | I have looked and looked, Uther, and I can find nothing that restricts what can be struck with Energy Missile. The spell descriptor just says targets or objects, not unattended objects. I know I have read somewhere that you cannot strike a target and then also strike his weapons, armor, etc as well....but I cannot for the life of me remember where I saw this. If you can provide your source, that might be a great help. well King Uther? energy missile isnt energy ball... and as i recall MAGIC missile ... is unerringly accurate? yes ... |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-03-05, 03:05 AM | It's in the PHB. VERY clear. You cannot sunder equipment with ranged attacks. End of story. Magic missles are the worst example to use. Just because they are unerringly accurate, doesn't mean you can sunder stuff with them. You simply cannot achieve what you wish to accomplish. You could ruin a bow with melf's acid arrow, because of the energy acid, but a magic missile would have no effect upon the bow. -ToK |
| nightbanegod09-03-05, 03:11 AM | this isnt magic missile ToK, this is a sonic attack directed twards an object... the object received enough sonic damage that regardless of its reflex save would destroy it. this is a psionic attack and on the note of spells targeting weapons i reference Shatter where it can target any item so long as that item is within the weight limits per caster lvl this particular psionic attack specifically has conditions on how it affects objects under its descriptor... sonic attack = ignores hardness whereas magic missile specifically says it does nothing to objects ehh more on this topic in the morning ... i must :zzz: |
| sloisel09-03-05, 05:16 AM | this isnt magic missile ToK, this is a sonic attack directed twards an object... the object received enough sonic damage that regardless of its reflex save would destroy it. this is a psionic attack and on the note of spells targeting weapons i reference Shatter where it can target any item so long as that item is within the weight limits per caster lvl this particular psionic attack specifically has conditions on how it affects objects under its descriptor... sonic attack = ignores hardness whereas magic missile specifically says it does nothing to objects ehh more on this topic in the morning ... i must :zzz: This is a good gimmick, because I think it does work as described. I don't have time to look into it because I have guests this weekend, however. I tried to look to see if targetting attended objects is proscribed, but I couldn't find it in the limited time that I have right now. So barring such a rule, I think power was interpreted correctly. And I don't think there's such a rule, the PHB specifically says that unattended items get no save, and only attended ones get saves, so it stands to reason they can be targetted. The sword, if it makes its save, would survive til the second casting, but that's about it. Sébastien Loisel |
| Maraxus09-03-05, 08:04 AM | Dang... another loss for Ch'Ch'Ili... But I have one quick question. In round 12, Alexi draws and drinks his second potion of healing. But drawing the potion is a move action, and drinking it is a standard one... And when you are disabled, you can only take one or the other! Should he have to wait until round 13 to suck that thing down? Probably wont help me any, but one more shot could do it. Plus I did have one more PP left... Ch'Ch'Ili has a crystal capacitor with one PP in it. Oh, now that Im looking... did you add my +1 point blank shot to the ectoplasmic goo stone I threw? That makes my attack a 21, which would hit. Ch'Ch'Ili may still have a chance! Point blank shot was included in the goo attack. That with the potion will be corrected. The crystal capacitor: Well, this is well hidden there between Shortspear and Belt Pouch. :) Yes, this could change something. edit: ...But it does not. As much luck as Ch'ch'ili had with the save (missed by one) as much misfortune he had with the damage (2d10=3) |
| nightbanegod09-03-05, 08:29 AM | This is a good gimmick, because I think it does work as described. I don't have time to look into it because I have guests this weekend, however. I tried to look to see if targetting attended objects is proscribed, but I couldn't find it in the limited time that I have right now. So barring such a rule, I think power was interpreted correctly. And I don't think there's such a rule, the PHB specifically says that unattended items get no save, and only attended ones get saves, so it stands to reason they can be targetted. The sword, if it makes its save, would survive til the second casting, but that's about it. Sébastien Loisel page 166 of my PHB says the swords hardness is 10 and it has 5 hp... even if it makes the save for half damage. whats half of 10 damage? |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 09:21 AM | I have not received Tactics from Madner for Adlar. Adlar (Madner) vs Methos (NiQil): Altaris13 I'll run my other fight of the dueling horsemen now. Edit: Wow... Madner's last activity was "Last Activity: 08-26-05 04:12 PM " That's the Thursday before last. |
| Usurpator09-03-05, 09:36 AM | Zassl vs. Kronos the Farslayer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7146843#post7146843) is up. Didn't include any maps (yet). Maybe if I have time tomorrow, since I have a good idea for a attractive map, but don't know if I will get the time. And maybe I made a few goof ups as well with the fight, don't want to go and revise half the maps. |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 09:36 AM | Hey Cat, I know you hate my characters and all, but I managed to win this week with Mini. ;) Minesbiggarinyers (Altaris13) [Power: 851 (851); 0 won, 4 lost] Fight Results: Mini wins, using Inertial Armor (from Stone #2) and Energy Bolt (from Stone #1). She gains 900xp/900gp. Wlandra loses, using 2 arrows (3 misses: 1 survives). She gains 300xp/300gp. |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 09:37 AM | Hey, Usurp, how do you do those maps on-line anyhow? |
| Maraxus09-03-05, 10:31 AM | Zassl vs. Kronos the Farslayer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7146843#post7146843) is up. Didn't include any maps (yet). Maybe if I have time tomorrow, since I have a good idea for a attractive map, but don't know if I will get the time. And maybe I made a few goof ups as well with the fight, don't want to go and revise half the maps. Well, bad luck, I was to sure of my high AC. And really, really did not expect him to try to avoid melee with a kobold sorcerer. What a girly ;) Hey, Ch'ch'ili, my power rating is coming close. ;) |
| Mind Rogue09-03-05, 10:52 AM | @ Telin I guess I should have said not to edit the fight for that, I just wanted to clear up some points for future references, but I guess now I'm stuck with it, and apparently the dice hate me at the end there. Still, I'm pretty sure I said to throw all of my javelins then to tap my tattoo before closing to melee. Now I could be wrong, but I only counted 3 javelins when I'm holding 5, no tatoo, and I'm the one to close the gap. |
| TelinArtho09-03-05, 11:02 AM | Hmmm I only threw three because that's what I thought you had... (checks character sheet) yup - you had 5. About that tattoo though. Check the character sheet - and you'll see no Tattoo of Biofeedback. I don't see a record of this tattoo anywhere on your sheet. I will edit for the rest of the javelins though, since that is definitely in your tactics and I just thought you only had 3... |
| Luni09-03-05, 11:10 AM | @Laughing Dragon: Still waiting for Kregor's tactics: @LLMadcow: Waiting for tactics too. :D Sunday is Fight day! |
| michael_noah09-03-05, 11:29 AM | This is a good gimmick, because I think it does work as described. I don't have time to look into it because I have guests this weekend, however. I tried to look to see if targetting attended objects is proscribed, but I couldn't find it in the limited time that I have right now. So barring such a rule, I think power was interpreted correctly. And I don't think there's such a rule, the PHB specifically says that unattended items get no save, and only attended ones get saves, so it stands to reason they can be targetted. The sword, if it makes its save, would survive til the second casting, but that's about it. Sébastien Loisel This is, I'm afraid, right. Nothing stops you from targetting attended objects with spells. It is true that you cannot use a ray against an attended object, because rays use an attack roll "as if using a ranged weapon", and ranged weapons cannot be used to sunder. However, targetting objects has nothing to do with sundering at all. There are clear examples that are well accepted of targetting attended objects with spells - i.e. chill metal, shatter. There are also examples of spells that specify that they cannot affect attended objects - i.e. Animate Object - which would not need to be stated if it were generally the case. I had thought that there was a passage somewhere about a creatures equipment and the creature being one and the same entity for most effects, but I cannot find it anywhere either. So, it seems that one can target both a creature and its equipment with energy missile. |
| King Uther09-03-05, 11:45 AM | Again, as I said last night, energy missile cannot hit equipment. As michael_noah said, your equipment and you are the same entity. It is the same reason you cannot use magic missiles to target eyeballs or the trachea. Energy missile flies unerringly, but you have a target(i.e. the character) and can't specify his equipment as well. If the elders vote we can use spells like that where it is not meant to, then you have no idea where that will lead. "Okay, my fire energy missile targets your bow, your quiver, your flammable backpack(full of alchemists fires), your cure potion, your 4 scrolls, and your third from the left nose hair." |
| Vathelokai09-03-05, 11:54 AM | I thought the rule was that attended objects get the same saves and AC as the bearer? With some modifers of course. This arguement leads me back to my general assumption that none of the writers ever really thought out psionics like they thought out spells. I agree with King Uther. If we cannot find a definite rule, have the elders all vote that the 'target anything' loop hole be closed. |
| Gonbow09-03-05, 11:56 AM | Again, as I said last night, energy missile cannot hit equipment. As michael_noah said, your equipment and you are the same entity. It is the same reason you cannot use magic missiles to target eyeballs or the trachea. Energy missile flies unerringly, but you have a target(i.e. the character) and can't specify his equipment as well. If the elders vote we can use spells like that where it is not meant to, then you have no idea where that will lead. "Okay, my fire energy missile targets your bow, your quiver, your flammable backpack(full of alchemists fires), your cure potion, your 4 scrolls, and your third from the left nose hair." Well, to be blunt; Why not? The description of the power is up to five creatures/objects. It doesn't say anywhere that you cant target attended objects, or that you cant target objects held by another target. I fail to see how someone's equipment can be considered part of them; Do you take damage when someone sunders your weapon? How about when they shatter your holy symbol? I didn't think so. Why exactly, are you sure that the power isn't meant to be used exactly how it is written? Your example sounds perfectly fine (aside from the fact that there are 9 targets, whereas you only get 5 missiles). Your targeting a various objects and one creature, all of which are within 15' of each-other. If there is a quote or ruling somewhere that says otherwise, I'd love to see it. But otherwise, I fail to grasp the logic behind the statement that it cant hit equipment. EDIT: The items did get saves, but the missile did enough damage that it destroyed them all even at half damage, Vath. If this is considered a 'loop hole' that needs closing, so be it. But I think for the most part, psionics were thought over, they just weren't balanced for one on one combat. The game is designed for 3-4 encounters a day... Tatyana can only afford one or two missiles a combat, hardly overwhelming when your facing a bunch of goblins/etc. But slightly unfair when you have just one opponent. Which is why I'm using the power, of course! Just like hold person doesn't do all that much againt 20 goblins, but rocks against one level 5 fighter. |
| Cerebus1309-03-05, 12:04 PM | Energy Missile Psychokinesis [see text] Level: Kineticist 2 Display: Auditory Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./ level) Target: Up to five creatures or objects; no two targets can be more than 15 ft. apart. Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex half or Fortitude half; see text Power Resistance: Yes Power Points: 3 ... Sonic A missile of this energy type deals -1 point of damage per die and ignores an object’s hardness.If this power wasn't intended to destroy attended equipment, what is it for? I can't often think of a situation where you would need to attack a creature and 4 other pieces of unattended objects that were all within 15' of each other. |
| xanadu09-03-05, 12:22 PM | If this power wasn't intended to destroy attended equipment, what is it for? I can't often think of a situation where you would need to attack a creature and 4 other pieces of unattended objects that were all within 15' of each other. 5 orcs in close quarters combat. There is no way a second level power can completely obliterate a creature and its entire inventory...period. Compare energy missile with its second level counterpart, shatter. 13th level kineticist meets 13 level fighter in a bar. They have an argument. Kineticist uses a 2nd level power to destroy fighters magic fullplate, magic sword, belt of giant's strength, boots of haste, and cloak of resistance. FIghter's move... |
| Cerebus1309-03-05, 12:27 PM | 5 orcs in close quarters combat. There is no way a second level power can completely obliterate a creature and its entire inventory...period. Compare energy missile with its second level counterpart, shatter. 13th level kineticist meets 13 level fighter in a bar. They have an argument. Kineticist uses a 2nd level power to destroy fighters magic fullplate, magic sword, belt of giant's strength, boots of haste, and cloak of resistance. FIghter's move...Shrug. Then that part of the power needs to be houseruled or clairified for everyone then, because the power does not specifically refer to attended or unattended objects. |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 12:28 PM | When a mounted gladiator falls to negative hit points, do they fall from their mount unconcious? If so, do they get to make a ride check for soft fall? Soft Fall doesn't take an action of any kind, it is reflexive. I know you don't normally "react" when your at Neg HP, but just because your dying doesn't mean you are actually blacked out. Any help? Please and thank you. |
| Snommelp09-03-05, 12:31 PM | When a mounted gladiator falls to negative hit points, do they fall from their mount unconcious? If so, do they get to make a ride check for soft fall? Soft Fall doesn't take an action of any kind, it is reflexive. I know you don't normally "react" when your at Neg HP, but just because your dying doesn't mean you are actually blacked out. Any help? Please and thank you. Page 157, PHB: "If you are knocked unconscious, you have a 50% chance to stay in the saddle (or 75% if you're in a military saddle). Otherwise you fall and take 1d6 points of damage." |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 12:31 PM | Shrug. Then that part of the power needs to be houseruled or clairified for everyone then, because the power does not specifically refer to attended or unattended objects. It shouldn't need 'houseruled.' Just because everyone says "there's no logic in DnD" doesn't mean we can't think logically. This is only a second-level power. Balance must be maintained. After all, if what you say is true, then pretty soon there won't be any gladiators left who use equipment. We'll all end up with Monk/Kinetcist/Clerics of Magic & Destruction with magical gear except for lots of Uber Fort-save effect Arcane scrolls. EDIT: Thanks Snom! My PHB was left at my brother-in-law's last night and I didn't see anything in the SRD. EDIT #2: So now I've got a different question. One gladiator is now dying, but could be around for close to 10 rounds. Said gladiator has an ally who (potentially but unlikely) could take down the opposing gladiator. Do I continue with the fight until one of them is actually dead, dead? Would a warhorse continue to fight if its rider is unconcious? |
| xanadu09-03-05, 12:33 PM | When a mounted gladiator falls to negative hit points, do they fall from their mount unconcious? If so, do they get to make a ride check for soft fall? Soft Fall doesn't take an action of any kind, it is reflexive. I know you don't normally "react" when your at Neg HP, but just because your dying doesn't mean you are actually blacked out. Any help? Please and thank you. Yes, they need to make a stay in saddle check. 50% chance or 75% if you're in a military saddle. If they fail, they take 1d6 damage. |
| Usurpator09-03-05, 12:36 PM | I applaud Gonbow for thinking of this use of the powerl! I don't think there is anything technically wrong in using the power the way he did. I just think the designers didn't think the implication through, as Gonbow proved. As a second level spell it would be way to powerful to be fivefold shatter deluxe: Shatter - 1 attended object - must be nonmagical - Save negates effect completely Energy Missile - up to 5 attended objects - magical or mundane - Even a succesfull save probably does not prevent destruction of targeted objects Besides that, Energy Missile can be used against creatures as well, you can choose damage types and augment it. Besides being too powerful, it is definitely 'unfun' in an arena enviroment. |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 12:38 PM | Thanks Xan! Also, please see edits above too. EDIT: D'uh. Nevermind. I just realized the still active gladiator hasn't acted this round. |
| Snommelp09-03-05, 12:40 PM | EDIT #2: So now I've got a different question. One gladiator is now dying, but could be around for close to 10 rounds. Said gladiator has an ally who (potentially but unlikely) could take down the opposing gladiator. Do I continue with the fight until one of them is actually dead, dead? Would a warhorse continue to fight if its rider is unconcious? Yes and yes. As long as the warhorse knows the "defend" trick, it's going to be fighting. As long as an ally is conscious, the fight continues. |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 12:41 PM | Yes and yes. As long as the warhorse knows the "defend" trick, it's going to be fighting. As long as an ally is conscious, the fight continues. Thanks, very good to know. EDIT: Also, since both fighters brought the same ecl ally, XP/GP remains as normal, correct? |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 01:02 PM | Sir Valkin (Telin Artho) vs Shakari (Luni) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7148019&postcount=323) is up. I encourage and request the rules savvy peeps to double check my work here. Please and thank you. |
| Luni09-03-05, 01:50 PM | Altaris, by my math, Foreman dies before he can attack Shakari. Also, I know he head better movement, but I just wanted to negate the Spirited Charge. :D I know we'll end up in melee, because he is faster. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-03-05, 02:02 PM | If we keep it in-line with it's arcane counterpart, and restrict it to only mundane items and not have it affect magical items, that would be very balanced. -ToK |
| Kaigan09-03-05, 02:26 PM | to my Pitlords: Hey guys, really sorry about tactics. I'll get my tactics in later today. I've just moved into my dorm, so it's kinda hectic. Again, sorry. My fights will be up tomorrow or monday. Have a great day. Kaigan |
| Mind Rogue09-03-05, 03:00 PM | Thanks, very good to know. EDIT: Also, since both fighters brought the same ecl ally, XP/GP remains as normal, correct? While you would think that, 5/4 * 3/4 does not equal 1. They actually both get 15/16 the normal amount or 93.75%. |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 03:46 PM | Altaris, by my math, Foreman dies before he can attack Shakari. Also, I know he head better movement, but I just wanted to negate the Spirited Charge. :D I know we'll end up in melee, because he is faster. Oh crap. You're right. I forgot the damage from Fireflame. I'll edit in a bit and continue with the fight. |
| NiQil09-03-05, 04:05 PM | I have not received Tactics from Madner for Adlar. Adlar (Madner) vs Methos (NiQil): Altaris13 I'll run my other fight of the dueling horsemen now. Edit: Wow... Madner's last activity was "Last Activity: 08-26-05 04:12 PM " That's the Thursday before last. In the absence of submitted tactics, you would need to use his default tactics. Which are very sparse. It is past the deadline for tactics, so how much longer you wait before running with the default tactics is up to you. |
| Maraxus09-03-05, 04:14 PM | About the Energy Missile: I my idea is, that an item should count as a part of the one carring it. Think of it as overlapping auras or something. So for the same reason that you can't attack one person multiple times, you can't attack him and his stuff or his stuff multiple times. |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 04:18 PM | In the absence of submitted tactics, you would need to use his default tactics. Which are very sparse. It is past the deadline for tactics, so how much longer you wait before running with the default tactics is up to you. I'm running the fight tomorrow, with or without tactics. I wanted to give him at least a day after being notified. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-03-05, 04:19 PM | About the Energy Missile: I my idea is, that an item should count as a part of the one carring it. Think of it as overlapping auras or something. So for the same reason that you can't attack one person multiple times, you can't attack him and his stuff or his stuff multiple times. That is a very sound and plausible idea. When you look at the power description, it even makes sense. Since you can't target the same target twice, any item by definition would still be counted as a like target. Since items use their holders saving throws, that actually makes a lot of sense. -ToK |
| NiQil09-03-05, 04:20 PM | I'm going to continue to hunt for the Energy Missile issue today....maybe I'll find where I saw it eventually. I think this is celarly a case of RAW vs RAI. By the RAW, how Gonbow used the power is absolutely correct (unless I can find otherwise). By the RAI, however, I think that it was intended to not allow exactly what is being done. Of course, that's my opinion, I could be wrong. |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 04:53 PM | If one wants to sunder a quiver of arrows/bolts, do I count each arrow as a separate weapon? Since said quiver is unattended, can the attacker just quash to whole thing in one round? If so, do they get repaired like sundered weapons, or do they remained broken like ammo? |
| xanadu09-03-05, 05:09 PM | @ Cat, Uther: I wont be available on monday so I've got to get that fight done by Sunday night Pacific Time. Neither or you need to write a book, just give me a general idea of what your guys want to do and I'll have them fight to the best of their abilities. |
| Altaris1309-03-05, 05:44 PM | Luni, Telin: I'm having RL issues today, and will finish editing your fight tomorrow. Sorry. |
| Snommelp09-03-05, 05:49 PM | While you would think that, 5/4 * 3/4 does not equal 1. They actually both get 15/16 the normal amount or 93.75%. Where'd 5/4 come from? Isn't it 3/4 and 4/3, in which case it would indeed be standard XP and GP? |
| Gonbow09-03-05, 05:52 PM | That is a very sound and plausible idea. When you look at the power description, it even makes sense. Since you can't target the same target twice, any item by definition would still be counted as a like target. Since items use their holders saving throws, that actually makes a lot of sense. -ToK By that logic, when I hit someone's sword I should do damage to them. Or anyone with reach can be attacked by hitting the edge of their weapon. I really dont understand how everyone is thinking that someone and the things they have/hold are one and the same... But if your searching for a rationalization to nerf this power; Dont. Just say it's overpowered and be done with that. I'll accept overpowed, not a twisting of the rules... because by the rules it works fine. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-03-05, 06:05 PM | By that logic, when I hit someone's sword I should do damage to them. Or anyone with reach can be attacked by hitting the edge of their weapon. I really dont understand how everyone is thinking that someone and the things they have/hold are one and the same... But if your searching for a rationalization to nerf this power; Dont. Just say it's overpowered and be done with that. I'll accept overpowed, not a twisting of the rules... because by the rules it works fine. I agree it works the way you used it...can't deny it. Won't even try. But that spell should be a 9th level spell easily. Destroyes almost any item (magical or not). Heck mordenkainen's disjunction isn't as powerful, because it has trouble destroying artifacts and doesn't hurt the player. Energy missile will wipe out even the hardiest of artifacts with but a though, and blow you up too while he's at it. Heck, mord's doesn't even destroy it, just removes the enchantments....energy missiles turn them into useless pieces of junk. Something is definately wrong there. But i have no gripes keeping it the way it is, there are still many ways to counter it. Area silence, any of the globes, anti-magic shell, counterspell, readied disruption, and more. I guess that's were mordenkainens' is a bit superior. It will chew through a silenced area, all globes and anti-magic area. -ToK |
| Mind Rogue09-03-05, 06:18 PM | Where'd 5/4 come from? Isn't it 3/4 and 4/3, in which case it would indeed be standard XP and GP? For having a mount, they get -25% Xp meaning you need to multiply by 3/4. For their opponent having a mount, they get +25 %, so you need to multiply by 5/4. This comes the net 15/16 Xp or around 93 %. One thing to learn in math is that you never simply add percents, you always multiply them. If you try to add them together, you will invariably get the wrong answer. |
| Snommelp09-03-05, 06:21 PM | For having a mount, they get -25% Xp meaning you need to multiply by 3/4. For their opponent having a mount, they get +25 %, so you need to multiply by 5/4. This comes the net 15/16 Xp or around 93 %. One thing to learn in math is that you never simply add percents, you always multiply them. If you try to add them together, you will invariably get the wrong answer. Ah... another change for me to inconveniently forget. It used to be +33% if your opponent had a mount. I guess the whole ally thing has become more complex. |
| Mind Rogue09-03-05, 06:25 PM | Hmmm I only threw three because that's what I thought you had... (checks character sheet) yup - you had 5. About that tattoo though. Check the character sheet - and you'll see no Tattoo of Biofeedback. I don't see a record of this tattoo anywhere on your sheet. I will edit for the rest of the javelins though, since that is definitely in your tactics and I just thought you only had 3... Hmmm. I've got to get my character's straightened out. It is Alexi who has the tattoo of Biofeedback, my bad. And the results have changed yet again. I used to have 3 javelins, but I picked 2 more up a few fights ago after spending them all in one fight. Now I'm glad I did pick them up. I think I'll spend some of my extra winnings on a tatoo of biofeedback. ;) |
| nightbanegod09-03-05, 07:23 PM | I agree it works the way you used it...can't deny it. Won't even try. But that spell should be a 9th level spell easily. Destroyes almost any item (magical or not). Heck mordenkainen's disjunction isn't as powerful, because it has trouble destroying artifacts and doesn't hurt the player. Energy missile will wipe out even the hardiest of artifacts with but a though, and blow you up too while he's at it. Heck, mord's doesn't even destroy it, just removes the enchantments....energy missiles turn them into useless pieces of junk. Something is definately wrong there. But i have no gripes keeping it the way it is, there are still many ways to counter it. Area silence, any of the globes, anti-magic shell, counterspell, readied disruption, and more. I guess that's were mordenkainens' is a bit superior. It will chew through a silenced area, all globes and anti-magic area. -ToK there really is at least 1 new topic each week that sets off a firestorm of debate and rules lawyering i think. what was it last week two weapon fighting? and of course im stuck in the middle of this one since im the one who ran the fight as such.. ohh well DEBATE ON good folks :D and on that note im going to start running my FFA right now and see how many people i can get into a frenzy debate over some controversial issues this time... :schemes: |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-03-05, 07:36 PM | there really is at least 1 new topic each week that sets off a firestorm of debate and rules lawyering i think. what was it last week two weapon fighting? and of course im stuck in the middle of this one since im the one who ran the fight as such.. ohh well DEBATE ON good folks :D and on that note im going to start running my FFA right now and see how many people i can get into a frenzy debate over some controversial issues this time... :schemes: Noone is rules lawyering this NBG. We generally all agree it works the way it is...it's just so friggin UBER!! -ToK |
| Gonbow09-03-05, 07:55 PM | there really is at least 1 new topic each week that sets off a firestorm of debate and rules lawyering i think. what was it last week two weapon fighting? and of course im stuck in the middle of this one since im the one who ran the fight as such.. ohh well DEBATE ON good folks :D and on that note im going to start running my FFA right now and see how many people i can get into a frenzy debate over some controversial issues this time... :schemes: Weeell, not so much of a debate at this point as a 'how to fix'. IIRC, house rules don't go into effect retroactively (Example: Pricing changes), thus the fight will stand for now, and any future fights from whatever decision is made by the elders will be affected, correct? Oh, and potential fixes, that I've seen suggested so far: 1. Unattended objects only. Pro: Smallest rules change, text wise, fixes the problem for good. Con: Largest loss of flexibility of spell. (Given the Psion # of powers compared to spells of other pure casters [except sorcerers, but sorcerers get to cast more per day, usually], flexibility is VERY important to them.) 2. Creature and equipment count as one for targeting. Pro: Keeps ability to destroy choice equipment, but cant deal damage at the same time. Con: Very bad rules precedent, and it also raises the potential of one energy missile damaging EVERYTHING someone is wearing, if it is in fact 'one' target (complex wording can fix, but still.) 3. Remove/edit Sonic subtype for Energy Missile power. Pro: Second smallest rules change, maintains flexibility at varying levels. Con: Possibility for abuse still exists at high levels. (When people are throwing around globes of invulnerability, this isn't really an issue anyways) 4. Don't fix it at all. Pro: No new house rules, keeps it easy for new people to integrate. Con: Unbalanced character continues to rampage at low levels. (Tatyan won't be the only one going undefeated at low levels on the back of one power/spell. Theorhetically, this cant happen without an unbalance of some kind. Are we going to nerf every 'overly effective' tactic?) Now, I, personally would go for 3, it keeps flexibility, doesn't have a chance to effect any other powers/spells via precident and keeps my character's modus operandi effective, albeit at a lower power level. 4, obviously would be fine by me and it has some logic as I've laid out. 1 wins out over 2 for my 3rd choice, due to my aforementioned dislike for the wonky situations target and equipment being one will cause. |
| nightbanegod09-03-05, 08:09 PM | still kudos to you gonbow for just DESTROYING this fight in 1 standard action... i was rather confused as to the significance when i read your tactics, then when in application i was just like HOLY:censored: :rofl: :rofl: |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-03-05, 08:13 PM | Weeell, not so much of a debate at this point as a 'how to fix'. IIRC, house rules don't go into effect retroactively (Example: Pricing changes), thus the fight will stand for now, and any future fights from whatever decision is made by the elders will be affected, correct? Oh, and potential fixes, that I've seen suggested so far: 1. Unattended objects only. Pro: Smallest rules change, text wise, fixes the problem for good. Con: Largest loss of flexibility of spell. (Given the Psion # of powers compared to spells of other pure casters [except sorcerers, but sorcerers get to cast more per day, usually], flexibility is VERY important to them.) 2. Creature and equipment count as one for targeting. Pro: Keeps ability to destroy choice equipment, but cant deal damage at the same time. Con: Very bad rules precedent, and it also raises the potential of one energy missile damaging EVERYTHING someone is wearing, if it is in fact 'one' target (complex wording can fix, but still.) 3. Remove/edit Sonic subtype for Energy Missile power. Pro: Second smallest rules change, maintains flexibility at varying levels. Con: Possibility for abuse still exists at high levels. (When people are throwing around globes of invulnerability, this isn't really an issue anyways) 4. Don't fix it at all. Pro: No new house rules, keeps it easy for new people to integrate. Con: Unbalanced character continues to rampage at low levels. (Tatyan won't be the only one going undefeated at low levels on the back of one power/spell. Theorhetically, this cant happen without an unbalance of some kind. Are we going to nerf every 'overly effective' tactic?) Now, I, personally would go for 3, it keeps flexibility, doesn't have a chance to effect any other powers/spells via precident and keeps my character's modus operandi effective, albeit at a lower power level. 4, obviously would be fine by me and it has some logic as I've laid out. 1 wins out over 2 for my 3rd choice, due to my aforementioned dislike for the wonky situations target and equipment being one will cause. I'd vote for #4. It's powerful ya, but i also took a look at a bunch of characters at ECL 3. There are a lot of characters that would still maul you in seconds and ruin that pristine 1-0 record of yours, hehe. My two guys, Krunch and Pale-Rider are good examples. Ok, so you go first and strip him of 5 items. He walks up to you, rages and smashes your face into a bluddy pulp. Then there's pale-rider with massive scrolls, and can finish you with just one or two of them. Chose 10 to destroy and he still has component pouch and mem'd spells to tear you up. I don't see it as abusive, i just see it as OTHER characters simply are ill-prepared to face the MANY challenges of the Gladius Arena. Just as an example, Pale-Rider's next feat is eschew materials...so if we meet in the higher ranks, even destroying his spell pouch won't have any significant effect. Minor globe of invlun, evards, polymorphed familiar...oh my..the list goes on. Good only at low levels vs ill-prepared characters, nothing more. Though ya, still a totally, BRUTALLY overpowered spell...we'll just have to do our best to defend against it. I know i don't have anything to fear, but others might. -ToK |
| Snommelp09-03-05, 08:16 PM | I'd vote for 4, as well, if we're voting. Grik might be in a bit of trouble if he ran up against this, but I'm all right with that. |
| NiQil09-03-05, 08:22 PM | Dropping my two cents into the bucket...I would put it down for number 1. To me, this is a clear case of RAW vs RAI, and #1 is what seems to be the RAI. And maybe one of these days I'll find where I read that you can't do it that way anyway. I know I did....but I spent several hours looking last night and a few more this afternoon and have come up empty. Maybe I'll drop an email to Bruce Cordell (one of the writers of the XPH) and get his thoughts on it. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-03-05, 08:33 PM | If anything 1 or 4. Definately neither 2 or 3. requires too much house-ruling. Just found a really original build also while scanning the characters. Greefe You could not destroy all his 18 axes fast enough. He'd maul you in seconds. You'd have to come up with a good plan vs this guy. -ToK |
| NiQil09-03-05, 08:38 PM | Not really, considering the throwing axes only have a range of 10 ft. Tatyana could stay at range with powerstones of Energy Missile and Greefe would never touch her. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-03-05, 08:39 PM | Not really, considering the throwing axes only have a range of 10 ft. Tatyana could stay at range with powerstones of Energy Missile and Greefe would never touch her. Ya, my bad. I was just reading his loss. :( Looks like his opponent did the same. -ToK |
| Luni09-03-05, 08:44 PM | Irregardless of the voting, Resist Energy will negate the spell easily enough. |
| xanadu09-03-05, 08:44 PM | Disallowing a loophole exploit to a 2nd level power is hardly stripping the psion of its versatility. Removing the sonic component does nothing and is illogical. As a DM, if a psion did this once after I said, "You know that's not the way the power is supposed to work," the PCs would face many a kineticist who targetted everything from their swords to their underwear. Not until the PCs were reduced to zero wealth and literally naked would I stop. |
| Gonbow09-03-05, 08:50 PM | Disallowing a loophole exploit to a 2nd level power is hardly stripping the psion of its versatility. Removing the sonic component does nothing and is illogical. As a DM, if a psion did this once after I said, "You know that's not the way the power is supposed to work," the PCs would face many a kineticist who targetted everything from their swords to their underwear. Not until the PCs were reduced to zero wealth and literally naked would I stop. Note I said 'largest' loss of flexibility, not complete. The power still has four different modes, each of which is situationally useful. However, it does completely remove an aspect of the power (as written). Wether that loss is significant enough to have another option look better is up to the individual; I tried to be objective when presenting cons/pros ;) And I did say edit/remove! The reason why I suggested it, was if you remove the 'ignore hardness' part of the sonic component and replace it with something that scales (I.E: 1 hardness per ML, or per PP spent), it's no longer possible to nigh-auto destroy most equipment, as I did in my last fight. Ah, DMing as a social lesson eh? Careful there, sometimes that just promotes more twinkery and it becomes a twinking contest. Those are rarely pretty IRL. On Co-Co of course, they are damn cool! |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-03-05, 08:54 PM | #1 or #4 would be my vote. I would add option #5 and make it closer to shatter by saying "non-magical objects". That keeps magic weapons intact as well as cloaks, rings and stuff. -ToK |
| Usurpator09-03-05, 08:55 PM | Energy Missile: I would rather not go for #4. This will lead to people bringing multiple items of their essential belongings. Two holy symbols etc. And characters would specify things as 'my belt is hidden under my loose clothing so that it cannot be targeted, my amulet is beneath my shirt, my arrows are put in a double quiver. #5: the power can target up to 5 creatures OR 1 object. Its still better than shatter that way, but at least its something... |
| Luni09-03-05, 08:59 PM | #1 or #4 would be my vote. I would add option #5 and make it closer to shatter by saying "non-magical objects". That keeps magic weapons intact as well as cloaks, rings and stuff. -ToK I prefer option #5. |
| TelinArtho09-03-05, 09:00 PM | @Altaris - glad I got a chance to take a look at the fight before it changes completely - in round 4, when Foreman drops, Sir Valkin would have healed him. If not then, then definitely after Shakari has withdrawn. Beyond that, if the mount is able to full attack and the player is able to full attack, then as long as the rider makes the appropriate ride check, they can both full attack. /d |
| Gonbow09-03-05, 10:04 PM | Fight Statuses, part 2. Mrs. B vrs Kraegin is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7151659&postcount=325). Silas (NiQil) vs Dark Lord of the Sith (Meek Head): STALLED. Vital tactics error, Meek Head, please check your PMs. Victor (Laughing Dragon) vs Vivi (Dr.Funk): Tactics for Vivi recieved, tactics for Victor not recieved. Predictions Update Tatyana Victorious: True! Yasha Victorious: Unknown. Lortavos Defeated: Unknown. Nicolae Eaten by Demon: False! |
| nightbanegod09-03-05, 10:13 PM | Fight Statuses, part 2. Mrs. B vrs Kraegin is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7151659&postcount=325). im letting you know gonbow that a mythral breast plate actually does have an ACP of -1 ... look at the mythral description under special materials.the bonuses from masterwork items are included as well as the price of masterwork items in the production of mythral... so you dont get a seperate reduction in ACP from mythral as well as masterwork ... its already masterwork since its mythral |
| xanadu09-03-05, 10:23 PM | And I did say edit/remove! The reason why I suggested it, was if you remove the 'ignore hardness' part of the sonic component and replace it with something that scales (I.E: 1 hardness per ML, or per PP spent), it's no longer possible to nigh-auto destroy most equipment, as I did in my last fight. Potentially could fix things but not practical. We'd have to do this with all the psion's energy powers. Also this is unexplored house rule territory, not apt for the Core Colesium. Ah, DMing as a social lesson eh? Careful there, sometimes that just promotes more twinkery and it becomes a twinking contest. Those are rarely pretty IRL. On Co-Co of course, they are damn cool! It only promotes twinkery with stubborn players. If they are so obdurate as to not see what they are doing is cheesy and fanatical resist sensible suggestions, then they can have their cheese but realize the enemy gets it to. It also only promotes twinkery if done over insignificant issues. I would only do this with severely problematic or broken issues. You want to play a frenzied berserker, fine, but best watch your steps in the mountains...there be rumors their warriors dont die when hit with sword and arrow :D |
| Gonbow09-03-05, 10:34 PM | im letting you know gonbow that a mythral breast plate actually does have an ACP of -1 ... look at the mythral description under special materials.the bonuses from masterwork items are included as well as the price of masterwork items in the production of mythral... so you dont get a seperate reduction in ACP from mythral as well as masterwork ... its already masterwork since its mythral It says price; not statistics. Masterwork bonus and material bonus stack. Just like a mithril weapon would get a +1 to hit, even though mithril doesn't explicitly state that it does. I could be wrong of course, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works ;) |
| nightbanegod09-03-05, 10:48 PM | Mithral: Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than iron but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonus is increased by 2, and armor check penalties are lessened by 3 (to a minimum of 0). An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon’s size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a scythe cannot be.) Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below. Mithral has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 15. emphasis mine... if every item made from mythral is ALWAYS masterwork and THE SRD specifically DICTATES what the ACP reduction is for an item made of mythral then there is no way possible that you can ADD masterwork quality to something that is ALREADY masterwork therefore you cannot further reduce the ACP penalty for anything mythral beyond what is dictated by the SRD for its special quality therefore you are wrong... sorry |
| Gonbow09-03-05, 11:29 PM | Cor! I know a way to decide this. There is a set of magical mithral /full plate/ in the SRD. I'll see what ACP it has. -3, as opposed to normal full plate which has, -6. Thus... I'm wrong ^_^ Crag, I'll have to do some editing. |
| TelinArtho09-03-05, 11:29 PM | @Gonbow: First of all, you've got the spell levels thing misunderstood. Your total spell levels is equal to the # of spells you can cast at a spell level times the spell level. See the Rules of Gladius for clarification of this. Regardless, Kraegin has 5+1 1st level spells (6 spell levels) and 3+1 2nd level spells (4*2=8 spell levels) for a total of 14 spell levels. This number is divided by 3 and rounded up for 5 spell levels. In round 6, 7, and 8 - there should be rolls for the Spiritual Weapon attacking against Mrs. Buttmunch (who doesn't get her Dex bonus, so it is against AC15). Otherwise, well, I just wasn't expecting to be grappled. If I had a weapon with which to defend I could have taken advantage of an AoO when he tried to start, but I didn't. If you could add in the spiritual weapon attacks, I'll be satisfied with the fight. |
| Gonbow09-03-05, 11:31 PM | @Gonbow: First of all, you've got the spell levels thing misunderstood. Your total spell levels is equal to the # of spells you can cast at a spell level times the spell level. See the Rules of Gladius for clarification of this. Regardless, Kraegin has 5+1 1st level spells (6 spell levels) and 3+1 2nd level spells (4*2=8 spell levels) for a total of 14 spell levels. This number is divided by 3 and rounded up for 5 spell levels. In round 6, 7, and 8 - there should be rolls for the Spiritual Weapon attacking against Mrs. Buttmunch (who doesn't get her Dex bonus, so it is against AC15). Otherwise, well, I just wasn't expecting to be grappled. If I had a weapon with which to defend I could have taken advantage of an AoO when he tried to start, but I didn't. If you could add in the spiritual weapon attacks, I'll be satisfied with the fight. Again I'm wrong. Annnd I forgot the spiritual weapon! That's 1 for 3 today! Very bad. I'll roll those up and report it later tonight, yes. |
| Maraxus09-03-05, 11:35 PM | Energie Missles: #1 sounds okay, #5a (only nonmagic) sounds okay, too. But I would prefer 1 because it probably is, what was meant to be. #4 would have the bad effect, that we could really go only, looking where this mistake was done, too. ...Hey, this works with chain lighting, too... To high level, let's look at the lower... The question is: Is the power so powerful, that most characters need to specificly prepare against it, or loose? And yes, it is. For most characters this means, that once they are hit by this spell, they have lost, even on a succesful save. ..Has searched a bit more. Official threat: If #1 is not choosen, I will play a Psionic guy, too. I will get to level 5 soon and then use Energy Bolt: Energy Bolt Psychokinesis [see text] Level: Psion/wilder 3 Display: Auditory Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: 120 ft. Area: 120-ft. line Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex half or Fortitude half; see text Power Resistance: Yes Power Points: 5 Upon manifesting this power, you choose cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You release a powerful stroke of energy of the chosen type that deals 5d6 points of damage to every creature or object within the area. The beam begins at your fingertips. Cold: A bolt of this energy type deals +1 point of damage per die. The saving throw to reduce damage from a cold bolt is a Fortitude save instead of a Reflex save. Electricity: Manifesting a bolt of this energy type provides a +2 bonus to the save DC and a +2 bonus on manifester level checks for the purpose of overcoming power resistance. Fire: A bolt of this energy type deals +1 point of damage per die. Sonic: A bolt of this energy type deals –1 point of damage per die and ignores an object’s hardness. This power’s subtype is the same as the type of energy you manifest. Augment: For every additional power point you spend, this power’s damage increases by one die (d6). For each extra two dice of damage, this power’s save DC increases by 1. Right, here we have all items, a character is carrying. Energy Cone and Energy Ball work the same way. Every single weapon, piece of closing, scroll, spell component, whatever is hit. And don't think, I will only use sonic, with the good damage, I should be able to destroy most of your stuff with other energy, too. There is no protection, muhaha. ;) :D :evillaugh |
| Gonbow09-03-05, 11:39 PM | Awww, someone else has been doing research as well? Yes, that was the first one I was going to get at level 5. So Co-Co is facing multiple powers that function to completely and utterly destroy peoples equipment. What'ca gonna do about it? ;) Potions of resist sonic might suddenly be in demand. |
| Maraxus09-03-05, 11:47 PM | So, you know, that the way you act is just twisting the words of the rules in a way that is not intendet to be? This is evil! (And as I said, Potions of resist sonic does not work because of two reasons: 1st: If everybody needs it or has allready lost, something is wrong anyway. 2nd: A potion has 1 hit point, 1 hardness; a scroll 1 hit point, hardness 0. A component pounch... You can destroy those with any element.) |
| Mind Rogue09-03-05, 11:54 PM | Awww, someone else has been doing research as well? Yes, that was the first one I was going to get at level 5. So Co-Co is facing multiple powers that function to completely and utterly destroy peoples equipment. What'ca gonna do about it? ;) Potions of resist sonic might suddenly be in demand. I think I'll just use my scroll of resist energy, or else improved unarmed strike (depending on the character). Then again, the one who can form a mind blade again anyway isn't in too much trouble either. Also, see the PHB Items Surviving After a Saving Throw: Unless the descriptive text for the spell specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects. ... Then again, Energy Bolt says "every creature and object" while the spells Fireball and Lightning Bolt say "every creature" although their spell descriptions make it aparent that they can also harm objects. |
| Maraxus09-04-05, 12:01 AM | Hehe: The Psi-Handbook was made with humor. It was: "Let's just write this short and simple." -"But couldn't somebody misunderstand this?" "No, it is apparent what we intented that to work like." -"But what if a player demands it to work exactly as written anyway?" "Hmm, if the dm allows it, it will destroy the game, end all fun and everybody will be sad. A fair punishment for such an act of stupidity.":) |
| Snommelp09-04-05, 12:08 AM | Right, here we have all items, a character is carrying. Energy Cone and Energy Ball work the same way. Every single weapon, piece of closing, scroll, spell component, whatever is hit. And don't think, I will only use sonic, with the good damage, I should be able to destroy most of your stuff with other energy, too. There is no protection, muhaha. ;) :D :evillaugh Yep... and then the first monk you meet grapples you to death. Most power plays I see have one glaring weakness; exploit it, and the power-player loses badly. |
| Gonbow09-04-05, 12:12 AM | A weakness against monks is acceptable. Monks are weak against Psychic Warrior Uber-grapplers, who are very common. At least we can destroy their armor spikes ^_^ |
| TelinArtho09-04-05, 12:17 AM | @Altaris - this is going to seem like a small nitpicky thing to do, but why didn't you start Valkin in the position that I wanted him in? From my tactics I specifically say to start in the front center position (which is -22,0 in this case). I'm not just mentioning this for my health however - if you start me in the correct position, I'm actually 20ft closer to the center stack at the end of my move, and have direct LOS with no cover. My attack roll is 19 vs an AC of 17 - which is a hit. Also, not that this actually makes a difference, but my FF AC in round 1 is 18, not 13. What does make a difference is in round 2, when she fires at me in the current version, I have cover because of the wall (if she does - so do I). However, once you correct for the above, it will be a hit. In round 2, you've got the locations mixed up somehow. Shakari moves to (1,-15) after firing. Sir Valkin then moves to (-1,-8) and attacks in melee? I'm 35 feet away? I have plenty of movement to get there, so this isn't an issue, but I would like to know where I am... In round 3, Shakari is in my threatened area and stows her bow which provokes an AoO. |
| Snommelp09-04-05, 12:26 AM | A weakness against monks is acceptable. Monks are weak against Psychic Warrior Uber-grapplers, who are very common. At least we can destroy their armor spikes ^_^ Meh... I'm not saying there's much to worry about, just that most big strategies have an exploitable weakness. Your psionic shatter strategy doesn't work on monks, PsyWarrior Uber-grapplers don't work against archers with superior speed, etc. |
| Gonbow09-04-05, 12:59 AM | Righto then, revisions to Mrs. B vrs Kraegin posted, and erronous notes in character sheets removed >.> Sorry about that! ^_^ But every wrong rules thingie is another rules thingie learned for good! (Or it better be, anyways.) |
| TelinArtho09-04-05, 01:42 AM | Thanks for fixing the fight even though it didn't change the result. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-04-05, 01:59 AM | Meh... I'm not saying there's much to worry about, just that most big strategies have an exploitable weakness. Your psionic shatter strategy doesn't work on monks, PsyWarrior Uber-grapplers don't work against archers with superior speed, etc. Also doesn't work against single-class clerics or wizards. (ie, area silence, all globes, counterspelling, evards, solid fog, greater invis, polymorh, otilukes sphere, man...the list just goes on...etc...etc...etc...) Phantom steed evoker, would also own you. U'd never ever get in range unless you went first, knew were he was, had a light horse with horseshoes of speed, and you pushed (DC 20) your mount, and rode over to LOS of him. Don't get me wrong...the power is UBER broken. Like i said, Mordenkainen's Disjunction isn't as powerful and it's a 9th level spell....but it isn't anything to hit a panic button for either. If equipment loss was permanent, then i'd say panic, but it isn't. Just chose option #1 and carry on. Completely makes it what RAI would and should be. -ToK |
| TelinArtho09-04-05, 02:13 AM | Eiletha vs Barrinand (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7153155) This one almost just got forfeited because Barrinand has overspent in a big way. However, the reason for it, I suspect is a lack of understanding of the crafting rules on his part, so I just ran it as he planned with a caveat if he used too much. He should definitely not be paired next week if the violations are not fixed however. /d |
| NiQil09-04-05, 03:33 AM | @Cat I think that maybe this whole Energy Missile/Energy Cone, etc issue either needs your ruling or an Elder vote. It seems that most (not all, but most) are in agreement that it needs to be changed from the RAW, as it is extremely overpowering, considering it is doing the same thing that a 9th level spell can do at 2nd level. |
| NiQil09-04-05, 03:38 AM | Fight Statuses, part 2. Mrs. B vrs Kraegin is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7151659&postcount=325). Silas (NiQil) vs Dark Lord of the Sith (Meek Head): STALLED. Vital tactics error, Meek Head, please check your PMs. Victor (Laughing Dragon) vs Vivi (Dr.Funk): Tactics for Vivi recieved, tactics for Victor not recieved. Predictions Update Tatyana Victorious: True! Yasha Victorious: Unknown. Lortavos Defeated: Unknown. Nicolae Eaten by Demon: False! I'm kind of curious as to why a tactics change would be asked for once the battle has already started. I was always under the understanding that if tactics were submitted with something that can't be done, it is simply passed over and noted on the battle post if the battle has begun. Since whatever it is appears to have not been addressed pre-fight, I am very much wondering how this is fair. It's difficult to say more, not knowing the details of the issue, but it sorta seems like I'm getting the short end here. |
| Maraxus09-04-05, 08:56 AM | Yep... and then the first monk you meet grapples you to death. Most power plays I see have one glaring weakness; exploit it, and the power-player loses badly. I think it is no weakness at all, if there are characters, I don't kill with a single spell. Psions are able to beat Monks. This works the other way round, too, but they can. After the monk is totally naked, this chance is even better. So, 90% of all characters have a chance of less then 10% (there is always the chance that a quick arrow of drow poison or dominate spell downs you before any spell), and the other 10% have only less then 50% chance, too. This still means, that something is wrong. |
| SoulLord09-04-05, 10:25 AM | I think I'll just use my scroll of resist energy, or else improved unarmed strike (depending on the character). Then again, the one who can form a mind blade again anyway isn't in too much trouble either. Also, see the PHB Then again, Energy Bolt says "every creature and object" while the spells Fireball and Lightning Bolt say "every creature" although their spell descriptions make it aparent that they can also harm objects. if your roll a 1 on your saving throw against effects like that your equipment gets affected as well. |
| SoulLord09-04-05, 10:26 AM | Lotarvos vs dalamar is up fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7154760&postcount=327) |
| waywreth09-04-05, 11:01 AM | Eiletha vs Barrinand (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7153155) This one almost just got forfeited because Barrinand has overspent in a big way. However, the reason for it, I suspect is a lack of understanding of the crafting rules on his part, so I just ran it as he planned with a caveat if he used too much. He should definitely not be paired next week if the violations are not fixed however. /d Thanks for running the fight. Call it lessons learned and I'll likely just scrap the character. |
| Luni09-04-05, 11:27 AM | @my Gladiators: I'll run the fights tonight and tommorrow morning. I kind of got RL stuff to do. |
| Gonbow09-04-05, 11:41 AM | I'm kind of curious as to why a tactics change would be asked for once the battle has already started. I was always under the understanding that if tactics were submitted with something that can't be done, it is simply passed over and noted on the battle post if the battle has begun. Since whatever it is appears to have not been addressed pre-fight, I am very much wondering how this is fair. It's difficult to say more, not knowing the details of the issue, but it sorta seems like I'm getting the short end here. Generally, if tactics are wrong on minor points, incomplete or hazy, I run as given. If they directly try to do something that is obviously impossible, I double check with the person to make sure they can do what they claim they can do; in this case, they can do it, so it is a good thing I checked. So, with that resolved, I'll be finishing your fight today. Also, I'll be running Victor vrs Vivi, though I don't have tactics for Victor. And in unrelated notes... @nightbanegod Would you mind increasing the award from Tatyana's fight by 27 gp for her? She was using Profession to make money. @SoulLord Thanks for getting the fight up, at the very end you list Lortavos winning erroneously.. Much as I'd like to take the XP, that should be fixed ;) And yes, I'm planning for Lortavos to pick up some kind of ally to feed him potions. If only the Mercenaries were available for use :P |
| Cerebus1309-04-05, 02:19 PM | Shan vs Daeren (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7156172&postcount=330) is up. Any comments/questions let me know as soon as possible. |
| Mind Rogue09-04-05, 02:40 PM | Dameon vs Jodan is up. Man I hate it when both players spend the first five rounds buffing. |
| TelinArtho09-04-05, 02:55 PM | @Cerebus - the only thing that I notice is my grapple checks are all off by 1 - when enlarged, my grapple check improves by 5 (+1 str, +4 sz) to +11. When raging, it is at +13. This means that I actually deal damage in round 9. Also when dealing damage, my total modifier should be +6 (Str 16 +4 (rage) +2 (enlarge) = 22, +6. Not enough to change who wins, but just figured I'd make mention of it, in case I see something later. |
| Cerebus1309-04-05, 03:05 PM | @Cerebus - the only thing that I notice is my grapple checks are all off by 1 - when enlarged, my grapple check improves by 5 (+1 str, +4 sz) to +11. When raging, it is at +13. This means that I actually deal damage in round 9. Also when dealing damage, my total modifier should be +6 (Str 16 +4 (rage) +2 (enlarge) = 22, +6. Not enough to change who wins, but just figured I'd make mention of it, in case I see something later.Oops, forgot the +2 str from enlarge. I'll edit it in quick. |
| Vathelokai09-04-05, 03:55 PM | Dameon vs Jodan is up. Man I hate it when both players spend the first five rounds buffing. Sorry about that. Glaives make me paranoid. As for blowing rescources, Jodan will be retiring soon, so I'm trying to have fun with him. Waiting for Huan's response before editing my sheet. |
| nightbanegod09-04-05, 03:59 PM | @nightbanegod Would you mind increasing the award from Tatyana's fight by 27 gp for her? She was using Profession to make money. heh forgot about that.. and dont sell yourself short Gonbow... its 10+skill x ECL so you get 57 not 27 and on that note... @ soullord can you add the GP Dalamar made using his craft bookbinding?to his total gold earned for this week. this should be an additional 96 gp |
| Gonbow09-04-05, 04:11 PM | Doh, right ^_^ Sweet, more gold! Speaking of making gold, both my gladiators in Silas vrs DLS had hobbies! Cool, though for the story I wrote one of them was a little odd to work in at the end. Silas vrs Dark Lord of the Sith is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7156930&postcount=331). The story I wrote is in Starwars format... sort of. No one used any force powers! A first for Starwars fan fiction, probably. |
| nightbanegod09-04-05, 04:44 PM | Doh, right ^_^ Sweet, more gold! more gold = HAPPY HOUR!! Speaking of making gold, both my gladiators in Silas vrs DLS had hobbies! Cool, though for the story I wrote one of them was a little odd to work in at the end. Silas vrs Dark Lord of the Sith is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7156930&postcount=331). The story I wrote is in Starwars format... sort of. No one used any force powers! A first for Starwars fan fiction, probably. wow... the starwars thing with a DnD statistics is kinda ... creepy |
| NiQil09-04-05, 04:47 PM | Doh, right ^_^ Sweet, more gold! Speaking of making gold, both my gladiators in Silas vrs DLS had hobbies! Cool, though for the story I wrote one of them was a little odd to work in at the end. Silas vrs Dark Lord of the Sith is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7156930&postcount=331). The story I wrote is in Starwars format... sort of. No one used any force powers! A first for Starwars fan fiction, probably. Not that I am complaining, but you may want to include a note at the end as to why the horse did not keep attacking, and whether or not you ruled on my issue regarding the non-listed tricks (I am guessing that is the reason it did not keep attacking), since my opponent may take issue with that. If push comes to shove, you can always pick the fight up from where it stopped and I can kill the horse if I have to. Just thought I would mention it. |
| Gonbow09-04-05, 04:49 PM | Not that I am complaining, but you may want to include a note at the end as to why the horse did not keep attacking, and whether or not you ruled on my issue regarding the non-listed tricks (I am guessing that is the reason it did not keep attacking), since my opponent may take issue with that. If push comes to shove, you can always pick the fight up from where it stopped and I can kill the horse if I have to. Just thought I would mention it. Silas acted before the horse and reduced DLS to -16 before the horse could act. The horse can only win the battle for the rider when the rider is above -10. The rest of the time, the horse didn't have sufficient reach to attack Silas, as it was 5' stepping back and trying to trip. |
| Faroth09-04-05, 05:59 PM | In my fight against snakes (Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7136922&postcount=319)) I only won 600 xp, is this correct? |
| Gonbow09-04-05, 07:09 PM | @Ellorion Saenelle Your fight here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7138278&postcount=320) needs to be revised. Starting in round 2, you give Archie a free move action almost every round; scrolls are NOT weapon-like objects and CANNOT be drawn while moving. So things like 'Archie taps tattoo of Vigor, then moves southeast to hide behind the towers, and draws scroll of Magic Missile.' Are simply not possible. |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-04-05, 07:20 PM | All right. I'll fix it tonight when I run my other fight. Sorry about that. |
| Meek Head09-04-05, 07:31 PM | Doh, right ^_^ Sweet, more gold! Speaking of making gold, both my gladiators in Silas vrs DLS had hobbies! Cool, though for the story I wrote one of them was a little odd to work in at the end. Silas vrs Dark Lord of the Sith is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7156930&postcount=331). The story I wrote is in Starwars format... sort of. No one used any force powers! A first for Starwars fan fiction, probably. Is it just me or did my horse never attack? She should have attacked everyround I did for a full attack... she's got to roll a 20 sometime. Also, to use the Psychic Strike ability, he must use a move action to recharge it. That means he either cannot move 5' and recharge and take an attack of oppertunity or 5' and attack. I'll wait till you fix this before I examine the fight more closely. Edit: His tactics stated to stay at range, why did he charge right away? This is against his tactics and favors him, as I have the advantage in range. |
| Meek Head09-04-05, 07:33 PM | Silas acted before the horse and reduced DLS to -16 before the horse could act. The horse can only win the battle for the rider when the rider is above -10. The rest of the time, the horse didn't have sufficient reach to attack Silas, as it was 5' stepping back and trying to trip. No, I do not have to 5' step to trip, I can sit on the back of my horse and trip from 5' away there. Or the horse full attacks and then 5' steps. Either way it full attacks no matter what. |
| NiQil09-04-05, 07:35 PM | Is it just me or did my horse never attack? She should have attacked everyround I did for a full attack... she's got to roll a 20 sometime. Also, to use the Psychic Strike ability, he must use a move action to recharge it. That means he either cannot move 5' and recharge and take an attack of oppertunity or 5' and attack. I'll wait till you fix this before I examine the fight more closely. As stated a couple posts above this, the reason the horse did not attack is because it was backing up 5 ft to allow your trip attacks. And the use of the Psychic Strike ability is correct in the fight. Since I was not moving, but rather using the move action, you are allowed to 5 ft step, use the move action to charge the Psychic Strike, and then the standard action to attack. Had I actually moved during my move action, then you are correct in saying that I could not use it. But a 5 ft step combined with a move-equivalent action is perfectly acceptable. Edit: As far as my tactics are concerned, I said to stay at range for as long as possible. However, when my ready action went off, we were already in melee range. |
| Gonbow09-04-05, 07:36 PM | Is it just me or did my horse never attack? She should have attacked everyround I did for a full attack... she's got to roll a 20 sometime. Also, to use the Psychic Strike ability, he must use a move action to recharge it. That means he either cannot move 5' and recharge and take an attack of oppertunity or 5' and attack. I'll wait till you fix this before I examine the fight more closely. Edit: His tactics stated to stay at range, why did he charge right away? This is against his tactics and favors him, as I have the advantage in range. Your next post goes into that... and I've never heard that about reach weapons. That implies that someone with a longsword CANT attack someone next to them? A 5' step move does not keep you from using a move action but rather keeps you from doing any additional movement period. Thus you can 5' then charge or 5' then move, but you can 5', draw and hit someone. Or in his case, 5', charge and hit. |
| Meek Head09-04-05, 07:41 PM | Your next post goes into that... and I've never heard that about reach weapons. That implies that someone with a longsword CANT attack someone next to them? A 5' step move does not keep you from using a move action but rather keeps you from doing any additional movement period. Thus you can 5' then charge or 5' then move, but you can 5', draw and hit someone. Or in his case, 5', charge and hit. Ok on the 5' move and move action. Reach weapons from the back of a horse are 5' away, the horse is 10' long by 5' wide with 5' reach. That gives me 10' to 'move around in' on my horse = 5' range at all times. My horse still needs 30 attacks. |
| Meek Head09-04-05, 07:42 PM | Edit: As far as my tactics are concerned, I said to stay at range for as long as possible. However, when my ready action went off, we were already in melee range. And why are we in melee? Both our tactics specifically stated to use and keep range as long as possible...? |
| Snommelp09-04-05, 07:47 PM | Meek Head's right, the horse needs its attacks. Even if it's ruled that the horse had to 5-foot step in order for the rider to attack, the horse could have done so after its own attack. And, since both sets of tactics apparently stated to maintain ranged combat for as long as possible, it really doesn't make much sense that the fight was determined by melee fighting. Of course, if there's no melee, the horse doesn't get its attacks, but the whole fight would essentially need to be rerun anyway. |
| Meek Head09-04-05, 07:47 PM | An important point here is that there are no tricks listed for his warhorse, so it will be your call whether you allow it to have normal warhorse training. They normally come with the combat riding trick package, but they should be listed on his sheet. Since they are not, that could be taken to mean the horse is untrained. Again, your call. Come on people. I paid 150 gp for a Light Warhorse. Until the Pitlords/Caterane puts it in writing that I need to list the tricks that comes with every Light Warhorse, I think it's safe to assume that it has the tricks. Get real. :rant: Edit: Yes, the fight should be rerun from Round 3 on where Silas used a move action to 'Run' and base me. |
| NiQil09-04-05, 07:51 PM | Your next post goes into that... and I've never heard that about reach weapons. That implies that someone with a longsword CANT attack someone next to them? A 5' step move does not keep you from using a move action but rather keeps you from doing any additional movement period. Thus you can 5' then charge or 5' then move, but you can 5', draw and hit someone. Or in his case, 5', charge and hit. We are in melee because when we spotted each other we were already in melee range. If you want the horse to make it's attacks, that's ok by me. With my high AC, it has to crit to hit me. To keep it at range, you would need to back off or withdraw. Which you never stated to do once melee was engaged. I see no problem with the way the fight was run from either side's tactics. If there is an error with the horse attacks (which I am not totally convinced there is), then they can be edited in. |
| NiQil09-04-05, 07:52 PM | Come on people. I paid 150 gp for a Light Warhorse. Until the Pitlords/Caterane puts it in writing that I need to list the tricks that comes with every Light Warhorse, I think it's safe to assume that it has the tricks. Get real. :rant: Edit: Yes, the fight should be rerun from Round 3 on where Silas used a move action to 'Run' and base me. Actually, it's not safe to assume it, since you can buy a horse untrained and train it yourself. So yes, they do need to be listed. |
| Meek Head09-04-05, 07:54 PM | We are in melee because when we spotted each other we were already in melee range. If you want the horse to make it's attacks, that's ok by me. With my high AC, it has to crit to hit me. To keep it at range, you would need to back off or withdraw. Which you never stated to do once melee was engaged. I see no problem with the way the fight was run from either side's tactics. If there is an error with the horse attacks (which I am not totally convinced there is), then they can be edited in. What? Did you read your own tactics, or mine? We both stated plainly to keep range as long as possible. There was no ranged combat. You 'Ran' to base me. How is that 'I want to stay at a 30 ft range for as long as I can, charging psychic strike mind blades as often as possible and throwing them at Dark Lord'? I'm sorry, but this fight needs to be rerun. |
| Meek Head09-04-05, 07:55 PM | Actually, it's not safe to assume it, since you can buy a horse untrained and train it yourself. So yes, they do need to be listed. Light Horse, not Light Warhorse. |
| Gonbow09-04-05, 07:55 PM | Ok on the 5' move and move action. Reach weapons from the back of a horse are 5' away, the horse is 10' long by 5' wide with 5' reach. That gives me 10' to 'move around in' on my horse = 5' range at all times. My horse still needs 30 attacks. Again, since when? According to the mount rules, you occupy the same exact space as your horse. Not one half of it. As to why your in melee; With a movement of 60 vrs 100, there is no way for him to get within 60' feet of you without basing you, much less 30. And once you were in melee, you stated to go to tripping mode. If you want me to re-run it with him dodging behind cover every few minutes, fine, but nothing will change rolls wise. |
| Meek Head09-04-05, 07:56 PM | Again, since when? According to the mount rules, you occupy the same exact space as your horse. Not one half of it. As to why your in melee; With a movement of 60 vrs 100, there is no way for him to get within 60' feet of you without basing you, much less 30. And once you were in melee, you stated to go to tripping mode. If you want me to re-run it with him dodging behind cover every few minutes, fine, but nothing will change rolls wise. Yes please, rerun it. And it has been ruled before that you are anywhere on your horse for attacking purposes. |
| Snommelp09-04-05, 08:01 PM | Again, since when? According to the mount rules, you occupy the same exact space as your horse. Not one half of it. As to why your in melee; With a movement of 60 vrs 100, there is no way for him to get within 60' feet of you without basing you, much less 30. And once you were in melee, you stated to go to tripping mode. If you want me to re-run it with him dodging behind cover every few minutes, fine, but nothing will change rolls wise. Gonbow, I really don't see your justification here. Reading both sets of tactics, it looks like both combatants wanted ranged combat, and yet you had one initiate melee to his benefit. Is Jindl still around? He and I had this discussion about mounts and reach attacks, and it was decided that you can use reach weapons on a mount that's basing your opponent. It's buried in this board somewhere... |
| Gonbow09-04-05, 08:02 PM | Yes please, rerun it. And it has been ruled before that you are anywhere on your horse for attacking purposes. Give me a link if you would. That would significantly change the outcome, whereas shifting from following you to just throwing at you will not, at all. |
| Gonbow09-04-05, 08:07 PM | Gonbow, I really don't see your justification here. Reading both sets of tactics, it looks like both combatants wanted ranged combat, and yet you had one initiate melee to his benefit. Is Jindl still around? He and I had this discussion about mounts and reach attacks, and it was decided that you can use reach weapons on a mount that's basing your opponent. It's buried in this board somewhere... If he had approached 60 feet, he'd be 60 feet away. He'd get shot at and his opponent would move away again. If he had run to 90 feet, he'd be 30 feet away but unable to do anything as he gets shot at again, and his opponent moves away, again. If he runs to base his opponent, his opponent can either withdraw and do nothing, eventually being forced to stand and fight OR stand and fight, thus keeping him in range. Thus, he needs run up to the bloody thing to establish a situation where he can be within 30'. And if your right next to someone, throwing rather than slashing is silly as one provokes an AoO and one doesnt. But as the fighters have requested it, I'll have him step 5' back instead of 5' forward, so he can throw instead of slash, which has no difference rolls wise, but means his opponent will be 5' forward to trip at him. Unless of course, you can attack people with reach weapons as described which is incredibly broken IMHO, but it means that stepping back to throw would be pointless, as it would still provoke an AoO, thus, stepping forward to attack would still be the best option. |
| NiQil09-04-05, 08:15 PM | @Gonbow If you rerun this, (and I am going to leave that in your hands, since I am not convinced it needs to be changed at all....at most to add in horse attacks), a couple of things to remember... At range, if his mount is moving, there will need to be Ride checks for him to attack while his mount moves. DC is 10 if I recall correctly. Probably not an issue, but could be. With no Mounted Combat or Mounted Archery feats, there will be severe penalties to his ranged attacks. His horse's movement is decreased due to encumbrance. From the Rules thread: Mounted Movement: If your mount moves, you use up a move action aswell. If you want to do an action while riding, you must complete the action before your mount has moved half its total distance during that round. |
| NiQil09-04-05, 08:19 PM | If he had approached 60 feet, he'd be 60 feet away. He'd get shot at and his opponent would move away again. If he had run to 90 feet, he'd be 30 feet away but unable to do anything as he gets shot at again, and his opponent moves away, again. If he runs to base his opponent, his opponent can either withdraw and do nothing, eventually being forced to stand and fight OR stand and fight, thus keeping him in range. Thus, he needs run up to the bloody thing to establish a situation where he can be within 30'. And if your right next to someone, throwing rather than slashing is silly as one provokes an AoO and one doesnt. But as the fighters have requested it, I'll have him step 5' back instead of 5' forward, so he can throw instead of slash, which has no difference rolls wise, but means his opponent will be 5' forward to trip at him. Unless of course, you can attack people with reach weapons as described which is incredibly broken IMHO, but it means that stepping back to throw would be pointless, as it would still provoke an AoO, thus, stepping forward to attack would still be the best option. Just for the record, I have no problem with the way you handled my tactics. I knew going in that I was at a movement disadvantage, and I also expected melee to happen. That range didn't happen before the melee did isn't really an issue for me, since they are virtually one and the same for this character. Your logic in going to melee is sound as far as I am concerned. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-04-05, 08:56 PM | Yes please, rerun it. And it has been ruled before that you are anywhere on your horse for attacking purposes. You are actually incorrect on this. You are not anywhere on your horse for attacking purposes, but you are EVERYWHERE. You occupy the same space as your mount. You can't chose to attack from the front of the saddle or the back of the saddle. You are assumed to occupy all spaces. Thus your horse can full attack, take a 5' back, and you do your trip thing. Of course you would need to make a successful ride check. A failed ride check would mean that only your horse gets to attack, and not you. -ToK |
| Snommelp09-04-05, 10:13 PM | I need backup... Cat, Sin, anyone who was around when Jindl kept attacking base to base with a lance while mounted, could we get your verification on that ruling so we're not bickering about a point that's already been bickered over? |
| Snommelp09-04-05, 10:18 PM | If he had approached 60 feet, he'd be 60 feet away. He'd get shot at and his opponent would move away again. If he had run to 90 feet, he'd be 30 feet away but unable to do anything as he gets shot at again, and his opponent moves away, again. If he runs to base his opponent, his opponent can either withdraw and do nothing, eventually being forced to stand and fight OR stand and fight, thus keeping him in range. Thus, he needs run up to the bloody thing to establish a situation where he can be within 30'. And if your right next to someone, throwing rather than slashing is silly as one provokes an AoO and one doesnt. But as the fighters have requested it, I'll have him step 5' back instead of 5' forward, so he can throw instead of slash, which has no difference rolls wise, but means his opponent will be 5' forward to trip at him. Unless of course, you can attack people with reach weapons as described which is incredibly broken IMHO, but it means that stepping back to throw would be pointless, as it would still provoke an AoO, thus, stepping forward to attack would still be the best option. I'm not saying you didn't do right by the character, but I am saying you were untrue to the tactics. Both of them wanted to stay with ranged combat for as long as possible. If he couldn't get into range and still attack, he could have tried moving forward and towards cover, or at the very least sideways and towards cover. I understand that you were in a tight spot, I'm just trying to let you know that there were other options that would have still fit within the tactics. |
| NiQil09-04-05, 10:31 PM | I need backup... Cat, Sin, anyone who was around when Jindl kept attacking base to base with a lance while mounted, could we get your verification on that ruling so we're not bickering about a point that's already been bickered over? With regard to the mount/spaces issue....this is from the SRD Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move. A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount’s space during combat. Emphasis mine. That would seem to support Tellish's assertion. |
| Snommelp09-04-05, 10:40 PM | Please don't take offense, NiQil, because normally I enjoy a good debate, but it always feels like I'm going bakckwards whenever I go through the same argument a second time. I'd rather just get the ruling from last time. I'm sure every argument you come up with, someone else brought up then; IIRC, it was a long standing debate. |
| NiQil09-04-05, 10:49 PM | Please don't take offense, NiQil, because normally I enjoy a good debate, but it always feels like I'm going bakckwards whenever I go through the same argument a second time. I'd rather just get the ruling from last time. I'm sure every argument you come up with, someone else brought up then; IIRC, it was a long standing debate. No offense taken. I just really don't see that there is a debate at all. My quote above from the SRD seems pretty clear on the issue. The only way I see it debateable is if there is something somewhere else in a book or in the SRD that contradicts what I have quoted. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. |
| SoulLord09-04-05, 11:22 PM | heh forgot about that.. and dont sell yourself short Gonbow... its 10+skill x ECL so you get 57 not 27 and on that note... @ soullord can you add the GP Dalamar made using his craft bookbinding?to his total gold earned for this week. this should be an additional 96 gp Done |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-05-05, 01:48 AM | First Horseman vs. Giant Praying Mantis http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7161039&postcount=332 |
| Usurpator09-05-05, 02:25 AM | Concerning the reach and mount question, the problem is this (in addition to the rule NiQil quoted): If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge). From this it becomes clear that it is the mount that charges, not its rider. But then: You must move before your attack, not after. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. After moving, you may make a single melee attack. This means that a normal warhorse (with a reach of 5 ft.) will end up in base-to-base contact with an opponent and can then make its charge attack. And its rider?: Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. It has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it, but you can’t use it against an adjacent foe. Summarizing, you can not move after a charge, can make only an attack at the end of the charge, at the end of the charge you are 5 ft. distant from your opponent, you cannot attack the opponent from 5 ft. distance with a lance. So I am not suprised if there was a ruling concerning horses and reach weapons (particularly lances) cause the gold old 'charge with lance' trick just can't be done according to the RAW. |
| xanadu09-05-05, 02:34 AM | Concerning the reach and mount question, the problem is this (in addition to the rule NiQil quoted): From this it becomes clear that it is the mount that charges, not its rider. But then: This means that a normal warhorse (with a reach of 5 ft.) will end up in base-to-base contact with an opponent and can then make its charge attack. And its rider?: Summarizing, you can not move after a charge, can make only an attack at the end of the charge, at the end of the charge you are 5 ft. distant from your opponent, you cannot attack the opponent from 5 ft. distance with a lance. So I am not suprised if there was a ruling concerning horses and reach weapons (particularly lances) cause the gold old 'charge with lance' trick just can't be done according to the RAW. Your reading into it too much. IF you have a reach weapon, the the closest space from which you can attack the opponent is 10 feet away. Charging with a lance is completely legal RAW. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-05-05, 02:42 AM | I need backup... Cat, Sin, anyone who was around when Jindl kept attacking base to base with a lance while mounted, could we get your verification on that ruling so we're not bickering about a point that's already been bickered over? Jindl was in error attacking base-to-base while mounted. Those that did the same were told many times. The rules to a charge are clear, you need to make the attack at your earliest opportunity. -ToK |
| NiQil09-05-05, 02:51 AM | Yes, a lance charge is completely legal by RAW. That's not the issue. The issue is, since you are assumed to occupy every space that your mount occupies, with a reach weapon your mount would need to take a 5 ft step backwards in order to put you at that 10 ft needed for the weapon that my opponent wielded to try trip attacks. But as far as my fight goes, I am guessing due to the outcry that Gonbow will probably rerun it (not that I think it needs to be, but I'm not the pitlord), so chances are this will be moot anyway. |
| Usurpator09-05-05, 02:55 AM | Your reading into it too much. IF you have a reach weapon, the the closest space from which you can attack the opponent is 10 feet away. Charging with a lance is completely legal RAW. Maybe, but I don't think so, since the quotes make clear that the 'you' is referring to the horse and not its rider. The horse charges and it the text adds that in these case the rider also gets some benefits. So the horse must move to the closest space, which is within 5 ft. Ergo, no Lance attack. |
| nightbanegod09-05-05, 02:57 AM | Maybe, but I don't think so, since the quotes make clear that the 'you' is referring to the horse and not its rider. The horse charges and it the text adds that in these case the rider also gets some benefits. So the horse must move to the closest space, which is within 5 ft. Ergo, no Lance attack. are you seriously telling me that you BELIEVE you cannot charge with a lance because its a reach weapon? uhh... dude ... ITS A LANCE!!! THE FRIGGEN THING IS DESIGNED FOR JUST THAT!!! |
| Usurpator09-05-05, 02:59 AM | Yes, a lance charge is completely legal by RAW. That's not the issue. The issue is, since you are assumed to occupy every space that your mount occupies, with a reach weapon your mount would need to take a 5 ft step backwards in order to put you at that 10 ft needed for the weapon that my opponent wielded to try trip attacks. That issue was not an issue to me, because barring a special ruling or clarification you cannot attack with a reach weapon 5 ft. away. When on a mount you effectively gain a space/reach 10 ft./5 ft. The reach rules don't change because you have a space/reach of 10 ft./5ft. If something special was up with mounts and reach weapons they would have mentioned it. But considering the reading of the rules in combination with the mounted charge rules causes you to be unable to attack with a lance in a charge, I might imagine there was some house rule or clarification on the whole matter. |
| Usurpator09-05-05, 03:08 AM | are you seriously telling me that you BELIEVE you cannot charge with a lance because its a reach weapon? uhh... dude ... ITS A LANCE!!! THE FRIGGEN THING IS DESIGNED FOR JUST THAT!!! Of course not, I am just saying that according to a literal interpretation of the RAW you cannot. I have never been in a game where mounted combat happened much, so I researched it when one of my characters bought a Light Warhorse and lance. When charging I was unsure of what would happen: 1. Your mount charges, it ends up basing your opponent (closest square rule) and you get to attack at the end of the charge, thus barring use of reach weapons. 2. Your mount charges, as soons as it is x ft. away from your opponent (where x is the closest square where you can attack opponent) it stops and you make your attack, effectively preventing your mount from attacking as well if you wield reach weapons. 3. You charge (taking your mount with you), ending up in the closest square where you can attack your opponent. If your mount can attack depends on the reach of the weapon you are wielding. 4. It's a sort of combined thing. Both make the charge, you attack from your closest square and then your mount attacks from its closest square if possible, moving another 5 ft. after your attack if you are carrying a reach weapon. Seriously, I thought I could just charge, no questions asked. It was just when I did read the rules I began to get confused. :confused: |
| NiQil09-05-05, 03:10 AM | That issue was not an issue to me, because barring a special ruling or clarification you cannot attack with a reach weapon 5 ft. away. When on a mount you effectively gain a space/reach 10 ft./5 ft. The reach rules don't change because you have a space/reach of 10 ft./5ft. If something special was up with mounts and reach weapons they would have mentioned it. But considering the reading of the rules in combination with the mounted charge rules causes you to be unable to attack with a lance in a charge, I might imagine there was some house rule or clarification on the whole matter. Let me use the same quotes that you just used to tell you where you are wrong. You must move before your attack, not after. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. After moving, you may make a single melee attack. By definition, a charge attack causes you to come at your opponent from a distance, ending up in any square from which you can make an attack. If you have reach, this square must be 10 ft away. This does not apply to the mounts attack, it applies to yours. A charge attack from a mount does not look at what your mount is doing, it looks at what you are doing. If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge). Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. It has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it, but you can’t use it against an adjacent foe. If a lance could not be used in a charge, then why would it say that it deals double damage when it is used from the back of a charging mount? A lance is specifically designed to be used from horseback as a part of a charge. How you arrive at any other conclusion, considering there are multiple quotes indicating that not only should it be used, but that you get bonuses for doing so during a charge, is totally beyond me. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-05-05, 03:23 AM | Never mind rules lawyering or trying to impress us with your genius ways of making twisting text and words. It's nothing new here or in the DND world. Those arguments come every 5 or 6 months like clockwork and they just aren't worth the time of day. Charge with your lance, you will be at 10' from your opponent, end of story. -ToK |
| Usurpator09-05-05, 03:27 AM | If a lance could not be used in a charge, then why would it say that it deals double damage when it is used from the back of a charging mount? A lance is specifically designed to be used from horseback as a part of a charge. How you arrive at any other conclusion, considering there are multiple quotes indicating that not only should it be used, but that you get bonuses for doing so during a charge, is totally beyond me. I agree that a lance should be used, and multiple quotes support the idea, but when actually looking up what happens during that charge, then it becomes unclear. It is just that quote below bothers me immensely, since it makes clear that you do not make the charge. You get only an attack at the end of the charge, which gets the same bonuses (which your mount wouldn't gain): If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge). I am a fine with my option 3. It just makes it impossible for your mount to attack on its own charge if you are wielding a reach weapon. I am perfectly fine with what I mentioned as option 3. I could also imagine a special ruling existed that lets you attack with reach weapons while mounted, thus allowing you and your mount to attack after your mount's charge from 5 ft. away, thus solving the problem as well..... And this was related to Meek Head's original question. |
| nightbanegod09-05-05, 03:27 AM | Never mind rules lawyering or trying to impress us with your genius ways of making twisting text and words. It's nothing new here or in the DND world. Those arguments come every 5 or 6 months like clockwork and they just aren't worth the time of day. Charge with your lance, you will be at 10' from your opponent, end of story. -ToK if your opponent attempts to base you after you charge with your lance... dont they provoke an AoO since they are moving out of the threatened range of the lance? |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-05-05, 03:30 AM | no because it is only 5'. |
| Usurpator09-05-05, 03:33 AM | Never mind rules lawyering or trying to impress us with your genius ways of making twisting text and words. It's nothing new here or in the DND world. Those arguments come every 5 or 6 months like clockwork and they just aren't worth the time of day. Charge with your lance, you will be at 10' from your opponent, end of story. -ToK I am fine with that, I was just trying to make sense of the rules. I was seriously confused though, and therefore I resent your comment about rules lawyering. Since this isn't my own campaign, I rather be sure and follow the rules as closely as written here, instead of substituting my own interpretations. But as you said, the question is not worth the time of day, and its time to end this story. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-05-05, 03:35 AM | if your opponent attempts to base you after you charge with your lance... dont they provoke an AoO since they are moving out of the threatened range of the lance? If he makes a 5' step no. 5' steps never provoke. -ToK |
| nightbanegod09-05-05, 03:35 AM | ellorion get my PM about my GP reward... i cant use craft armor to earn money so as much as i might want it i dont get that extra 57 GP |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-05-05, 03:42 AM | yeah it's fixed. |
| Meek Head09-05-05, 11:21 AM | But as far as my fight goes, I am guessing due to the outcry that Gonbow will probably rerun it (not that I think it needs to be, but I'm not the pitlord), so chances are this will be moot anyway. NiQil, what is your problem? I find it hard to believe that you would say this if it was your character that lost when the Pitlord threw your tactics out the window, as in this fight. What is the point of writing tactics if they are not going to be followed by the Pitlord? When looking at our fight, Dark Lord vs. Silas, it is obvious that Gonbow has forgone Silas' tactics and made his job easier by skipping many difficult rounds of one character evading the other due to better movement and better range for attacks. By throwing out Silas' tactics is to throw away my advantage. Completely unfair. Rules Lawyering: Share 1. A part or portion belonging to, distributed to, contributed by, or owed by a person or group. 2. An equitable portion: do one's share of the work. 3. Any of the equal parts into which the capital stock of a corporation or company is divided. Since I 'share' the same space as my mount and do not 'occupy' the space, I should be allowed to move within that space provided that it is larger than I. In the case of a medium humanoid and a horse mount, a character would have 10' to move around in. So a character could attack with a reach weapon if the horse is base to base to the opponent. This game's rules are based on the English language. To use/interpret a word other than by its dictionary meaning would be to change the rules. It is a simple truth. I'm sure that when a country writes it's laws on how it wishes to govern it's people it would not use a word allowing it to/believing it has a different meaning other than the standard dictionary meaning. As I've stated before I wish the fight to be rerun from round 3, as that is where Gonbow deviated from tactics without implementing them first. Thank you. |
| Gonbow09-05-05, 11:59 AM | Meek Head, Silas' tactics state for him to stay at 30 feet range for as long as possible. After seeing you back up 50' and shoot at him, it should be painfully obviously have 'as long as possible' is the same as 'never'. Re: Mounts; No. Your character is in a military saddle specially designed to /keep you in one place/ to start with. Secondly, you share ALL the spaces your mount is in, simultaneously. If you move to one specific square, your no longer sharing the other space, now are you? I'm normally very open to revisions to my fights if one player feels something has gone wrong; in this case, I'm not so receptive. However, I will do a quick dice-roll marathon to see what would have happened if I had ignored his tactics and stayed at 90' away. (You know, by not charging and thus letting you back up over and over, never closing to the desired distance.) EDIT: Rounds 3-14 barebones included in Sblock. Round 3 Initiative order has changed due to ready action, Silas goes first now. Silas moves to -12/9 and throws his mindblade at DLS. 3 range increments, -6 to his attack. DLS cover check: 22 (15 +7), gets cover. Attack: 15 (+7 -6), misses AC 20. DLS moves to 10/9 and shoots at Silas, who has cover from the rock between them. Attack: 14; Not a 20, doesn't hit. Round 4 Silas moves to -6/9 and manifests another mindblade. DLS moves to 16/9 and shoots at Silas. Attack: 14; not a 20, doesn't hit. Round 5-12 Silas will be at 80' when he attacks every other round, DLS needs 20's to hit, Silas needs 15's or 19's, depending on cover checks, rolls are naked (modifiers not counted) unless annotated with ()'s Silas attack: 14 DLS attack: 15 Round 6 DLS attack: 11 Round 7 Silas attack: 20 (threat), DLS ride check for cover: 21 (14 +7), has cover. Confirm: 4, no confirm. Damage: 16 (1d6 +2 +1d8; 6 +2 +8) DLS attack: 18 Round 8 DLS attack: 3 Round 9 Silas attack: 9 DLS attack: 11 Round 10 DLS attack: 16 Round 11 Silas attack: 15, DLS ride check for cover: 12 (5 +7), Silas hits, no psychic charge. Damage: 7 (5 +2), DLS is at -1 hps. Horse charges Silas. Attack (hoof): 15 (9 +4 +2), misses. Round 12 Silas manifests mindblade and attacks unconscious DLS. Attack: 21 (14 +7), damage: 6. DLS is at -7 hps. Horse full attacks Silas. Attack (hoof): 10 (6 +4), miss. Attack (hoof): 18 (14 +4), miss. Attack (bite): 2 (3 -1) miss. Round 13 Silas' buffs disappear. He charges his mindblade with psychic strike and attacks DLS. Attack: 13 (6 +7), misses AC 14 Horse full attacks Silas. Attack (hoof): 18 (14 +4), misses. Attack (Hoof): 13 (9 +4), misses. Attack (bite): 4 (5 -1) misses. Round 14 Silas attacks the unconscious rider again. Attack: 14 (7 +7), hits the helpless defender. Damage: 12 (1d6 +2 +1d8; 3 +2 +7), kills DLS and wins. |
| nightbanegod09-05-05, 12:50 PM | are we still debating about the location of a rider in regards to the mount hes on? ... and here i thought someone had said But as you said, the question is not worth the time of day, and its time to end this story but i must have been mistaken *edit* and on a side note... heres a question i just need resolved since im not sure exactly WHEN LOS is established... subject A is invisible at [-6,13] drinks a potion then moves to [-10,7] and subject B is at [-7,-26] since subject A took a standard action then a move action already in his round and subject B has not taken any actions, when does subject A get to establish LOS? as soon as he rounds the rocks in the center of the arena or as a reacitve deal on subject Bs turn? and do you need to roll a move silently if your flying via the fly spell? |
| Snommelp09-05-05, 12:59 PM | Gonbow: from Silas' tactics, I read the following I want to stay at a 30 ft range for as long as I can, charging psychic strike mind blades as often as possible and throwing them at Dark Lord. I want to remain mobile, however, so that I avoid flanking. They both will most likely have speed advantages on me, so I don’t expect me to be able to do this very long.Assuming melee is engaged, I want to continue to avoid flanking and trips as much as possible.This is just me, but if I were the one running the fight I would take that to mean that Silas has no intention of forcing melee, but he expects his opponent to do so. Nowhere in the tactics do I see Silas intending to start melee himself. This should have been the Dark Lord's fight, from my POV. |
| Snommelp09-05-05, 01:01 PM | *edit* and on a side note... heres a question i just need resolved since im not sure exactly WHEN LOS is established... subject A is invisible at [-6,13] drinks a potion then moves to [-10,7] and subject B is at [-7,-26] since subject A took a standard action then a move action already in his round and subject B has not taken any actions, when does subject A get to establish LOS? as soon as he rounds the rocks in the center of the arena or as a reacitve deal on subject Bs turn? If there is no cover, LOS is established right away, regardless of the actions taken so far. As soon as A is capable of seeing B, A sees B. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-05-05, 01:03 PM | Gonbow: from Silas' tactics, I read the following This is just me, but if I were the one running the fight I would take that to mean that Silas has no intention of forcing melee, but he expects his opponent to do so. Nowhere in the tactics do I see Silas intending to start melee himself. This should have been the Dark Lord's fight, from my POV. I think Gonbow's barebones rolls proves otherwise. With both parties staying at range even, it is clear you are the victor. -ToK |
| NiQil09-05-05, 01:08 PM | Gonbow: from Silas' tactics, I read the following This is just me, but if I were the one running the fight I would take that to mean that Silas has no intention of forcing melee, but he expects his opponent to do so. Nowhere in the tactics do I see Silas intending to start melee himself. This should have been the Dark Lord's fight, from my POV. As per the post from Gonbow a couple of posts above this one, he rolled out the results of what would happen if he changes it, giving DLS the range he asked for. So if my opponent wants that edited into the fight so that it reflects his tactics, I have no problem with that. |
| Snommelp09-05-05, 01:15 PM | As per the post from Gonbow a couple of posts above this one, he rolled out the results of what would happen if he changes it, giving DLS the range he asked for. So if my opponent wants that edited into the fight so that it reflects his tactics, I have no problem with that. Right, sorry. Hard to find anything besides the horsey debate on this page. |
| NiQil09-05-05, 01:20 PM | Right, sorry. Hard to find anything besides the horsey debate on this page. Horsey debate? Sounds like a new Arby's offering :rofl: Can I have some horsey sauce to go with my horsey debate? |
| SoulLord09-05-05, 01:28 PM | Let's share a mental picture forget a litle about metagaming and rules. if someone were to approach a mounted warrior wearing a lance it would be impossible for the rider to strike back with such a lance if his foe is next to him. |
| King Uther09-05-05, 01:56 PM | Despite any debate, if this comes to a vote I will vote for counting a lance as a reach weapon, like it says in the text, and basing your opponent means you cannot attack them with the lance. Makes the most sense and I think arguing otherwise is just twisting the text. |
| nightbanegod09-05-05, 02:01 PM | Horsey debate? Sounds like a new Arby's offering :rofl: Can I have some horsey sauce to go with my horsey debate? DUDE!!! i knew the secret was "in the sauce" :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: |
| nightbanegod09-05-05, 02:02 PM | and do you need to roll a move silently if your flying via the fly spell? But seriously ... move silently rolls while flying via the fly spell... i dont think you do since your essentially floating around and your not rubbin on anything to be making sounds... |
| michael_noah09-05-05, 02:06 PM | MS while flying: yes, you need to roll. There is nothing saying that it is any different from any other movement. A question: Does a natural 1 in a grapple check always fail? Does a 20 always succeed? The stupid rules say that it is "like" an attack roll, but do not say in what ways. |
| King Uther09-05-05, 02:08 PM | The COCO has ruled that grappling is in every way an attack, and thus a 1 is an automatic failure and a 20 can crit. In my own RL game, grappling is like tripping since it is an opposed check. |
| Snommelp09-05-05, 02:11 PM | I haven't seen that ruling, Uther. Logic would dictate that, since it is an opposed check, there are no automatic hits or misses. |
| michael_noah09-05-05, 02:12 PM | ok, i'll go with that. can we get that in writing somewhere? |
| King Uther09-05-05, 02:14 PM | Jindl told me himself once. |
| michael_noah09-05-05, 02:20 PM | another unclear question: when grappling with armor spikes - how is strength bonus damage added? |
| Gonbow09-05-05, 02:26 PM | I add it to the unarmed strike damage myself. Since the armor spikes are 'additional' damage and not the main attack mode. Unless your using attack with weapon (and thus, -4 to your attack), in which case it goes on the armor spikes and there is no unarmed strike damage. |
| Luni09-05-05, 02:27 PM | My first fight is up here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7164985&postcount=333) I apoligize for the delay. Going to start my 2nd fight right away. |
| King Uther09-05-05, 02:32 PM | For a medium creature with medium spikesand the feat(not monk) improved unarmed strike with a 16 STR would deal 1d3+1d6+3 for every successful grapple check.. Edit: When both types of damage are dealt, it doesn't specify. I'd say unarmed, if anything. |
| King Uther09-05-05, 02:39 PM | Wow. Well, I have a chellange extended to 1 of 2 opponents for next pairings. Don't feel obligated to answer, though. 1. Oma-na Sento - courageous warrior who has won 2 fights in a row vs multiple opponents. 2. Greevus - He's undefeated, and I would like to test his mettle. |
| michael_noah09-05-05, 02:41 PM | cool, that's what i thought as well. |
| NiQil09-05-05, 02:44 PM | Wow. Well, I have a chellange extended to 1 of 2 opponents for next pairings. Don't feel obligated to answer, though. 1. Oma-na Sento - courageous warrior who has won 2 fights in a row vs multiple opponents. 2. Greevus - He's undefeated, and I would like to test his mettle. Why not take them both in a FFA, or find yourself a partner and have a team battle? |
| King Uther09-05-05, 02:47 PM | I am not opposed to either. Assuming a team battle becomes the suggested medium, is there anyone willing to join with Balbanes to smite these talented gladiators? |
| Snommelp09-05-05, 02:59 PM | Looks like Greevus is on Campaign, so he probably won't be accepting your challenge. |
| King Uther09-05-05, 03:07 PM | That campaign ended I thought. |
| Snommelp09-05-05, 03:11 PM | I haven't been following it, I just know that he's currently listed as on Campaign. Maybe it did end. EDIT: You're right, it ended, Greevus's sheet just hasn't been updated. |
| NiQil09-05-05, 03:11 PM | @ Gonbow Just for the sake of expediency, go ahead and edit in your bare-bones rolling into the fight as the rerun. Then you get to rework your Star Wars story into a blaster fight LOL "Hoky religions and ancient weapons are nothing compared to a blaster at your side, kid." |
| Huan09-05-05, 03:40 PM | Dameon vs Jodan is up. Man I hate it when both players spend the first five rounds buffing. I had a few qualms in this fight ... Mainly, I do not like how unintelligibly my character was played. I'll start with NOT hiding when that was the main platform of my tactics, not switching synesthete to negate invis when I suspect he is invis (which should be common sense), and, most improtantly, NOT moving away when I detect he is dangeorusly near. I do NOT believe my image is autospotted with my high Hide (which says I can be within 1 feet/rank of my hiding space and still be hidden... so since my images are based off my actions, they should share the same luxury.) He made no spot checks in this instance, anyway. Also the DC to listen to him should have been lower since he was moving near/at his full speed (AT LEAST a -5 penalty to Move Silently). |
| Vathelokai09-05-05, 03:48 PM | Synesthete is fooled by invisibility.Synesthete Psychometabolism Level: Psion/wilder 1, psychic warrior 1 Display: Material Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 10 min./level (D) Power Points: 1 You receive one kind of sensory input when a different sense is stimulated. In particular, you can either feel light or feel sound. You can shift your stimulated sense between these two options once per round as a swift action. Your senses continue to work normally as well, unless they are impaired for some reason. Your face must be uncovered to use this power, because it is the skin of your face that acts as the sensory receiver. If you are feeling light by absorbing ambient light onto your skin, you have your normal visual abilities (except for darkvision), even if your eyes are closed or you are blinded. If your eyes are working normally, you gain a +4 circumstance bonus on all Spot and Search checks. While feeling light, you are immune to gaze attacks. If you are feeling sound by absorbing sound onto your skin and your ears are working normally, the expanded audio input provides you with a +4 circumstance bonus on Listen checks. Psionic or magical displacement effects, invisibility effects, illusions, and other similar effects confuse your synesthete senses just as they would your normal senses. You can also use this power to see sound if you are deafened, or hear light if you are blinded, thus removing all penalties associated with either condition (though you gain no bonuses for using the power in this way if you are not deafened or blinded). The mirror images are technicly in your space, so they would be hiding. In my tactics Jodan was supposed to be moving at half speed when he was near his opponent. |
| Huan09-05-05, 04:04 PM | well said, Vath In that case, other than the spotting/hiding, I have no complaints (certainly no rules are in question Mind Rogue, you did well there :) ). |
| Gonbow09-05-05, 04:46 PM | @ Gonbow Just for the sake of expediency, go ahead and edit in your bare-bones rolling into the fight as the rerun. Then you get to rework your Star Wars story into a blaster fight LOL "Hoky religions and ancient weapons are nothing compared to a blaster at your side, kid." Indeed. The new fight is up. I imagined in my mind as one of those side-scrolling fighter plane games, with S.I.L.A.S as the giant near invulnerable boss. DLS just couldn't find your weak spot (Crits). Do I get an extra credit for writing two stories for this fight? :angelhide |
| nightbanegod09-05-05, 05:01 PM | I am not opposed to either. Assuming a team battle becomes the suggested medium, is there anyone willing to join with Balbanes to smite these talented gladiators? Dalamar will not offer to be your partner in this FFA, HOWEVER, he will offer to be a 4th person in an all out 4 person FFA !!! ... have you the GUTS to accept? |
| Luni09-05-05, 05:04 PM | Grik vs Nexa vs Kregor is up here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7166358&postcount=335) Any comments, complaints, let me know. Aside: I think 3 man FFA's should be just that. I don't like the forced targets. |
| Gonbow09-05-05, 05:06 PM | @Haun Speaking of Balbanes, how goes the fight between Yasha and the Avatar? |
| Mind Rogue09-05-05, 05:06 PM | I had a few qualms in this fight ... Mainly, I do not like how unintelligibly my character was played. I'll start with NOT hiding when that was the main platform of my tactics, not switching synesthete to negate invis when I suspect he is invis (which should be common sense), and, most improtantly, NOT moving away when I detect he is dangeorusly near. I do NOT believe my image is autospotted with my high Hide (which says I can be within 1 feet/rank of my hiding space and still be hidden... so since my images are based off my actions, they should share the same luxury.) He made no spot checks in this instance, anyway. Also the DC to listen to him should have been lower since he was moving near/at his full speed (AT LEAST a -5 penalty to Move Silently). 1)Cast Expeditious Retreat from scroll and move to (12,-24) then hide. This spot is actually in front of the rock, not behind it. I moved you there as you said, then had you start 5 ft stepping around it to try to find cover as you buffed. Unfortunatly, Jodan came from the side, so you had none, thus no spot check because it would be impossible to hide, since you were not within 2 ft of cover. I was also not differentiating between you and your images: the "image" that he saw also included you. Also, the DC was not increased do to movement speed. At first, he was moving at 20 ft per round once (half speed for a level 3 monk). After he was done buffing, he had both actions, so he moved at 20 ft for both actions, allowing him the opportunity to move 40 ft at no penalty. Finally, I did use synesthete to try to negate his invisibility: feeling light cannot detect invisible creatures, so I had you feel sound to try and hear him better. |
| Snommelp09-05-05, 05:07 PM | Grik vs Nexa vs Kregor is up here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7166358&postcount=335) Any comments, complaints, let me know. Aside: I think 3 man FFA's should be just that. I don't like the forced targets. After reading that fight, I have to agree. Forced targets aren't cool. Oh well. I never claimed Grik was a smart one. |
| nightbanegod09-05-05, 05:18 PM | question.... manifester level of dissolving weapon ... 4th since its only a psychic warrior skill or 3rd because you were lucky enough to find a specialized psion with expanded knowledge? and on the same note... dispel magic works for psionics too right? |
| Usurpator09-05-05, 05:22 PM | Grik vs Nexa vs Kregor is up here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7166358&postcount=335) Any comments, complaints, let me know. Aside: I think 3 man FFA's should be just that. I don't like the forced targets. Luni, thanx for running the fight! Next time I will try to make my tactics less lengthy. I think my tactics has more characters than the entire fight. :) And Silverfur is proving an invaluable Animal Companion. I can't believe the damage he did! :eek: I'll go look up Nexa in the prison. |
| TelinArtho09-05-05, 09:13 PM | Has anyone seen Altaris? He hasn't finished revising the fight for the original problems that my opponent brought up - and for that matter has not responded to any of the points I've brought up |
| Snommelp09-05-05, 09:20 PM | Luni, thanx for running the fight! Next time I will try to make my tactics less lengthy. I think my tactics has more characters than the entire fight. :) And Silverfur is proving an invaluable Animal Companion. I can't believe the damage he did! :eek: I'll go look up Nexa in the prison. Wouldn't have hit if Grik hadn't let his anger get the best of him... I'm still hoping that Cat or someone will come in and say "hey, Grik took out Kregor without breaking a sweat, let's give him some XP." I know it's a long shot, but I'm feeling optimistic :) Grik'll be updated in time for pairings, though. |
| Mind Rogue09-05-05, 09:25 PM | Has anyone seen Altaris? He hasn't finished revising the fight for the original problems that my opponent brought up - and for that matter has not responded to any of the points I've brought up Altaris hasn't been on the board in two days. |
| nightbanegod09-05-05, 09:35 PM | sorry for the delay Talari vs Aranor vs Grakk (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7151631&postcount=324) is up...and it was kinda wierd |
| NiQil09-05-05, 09:38 PM | Altaris hasn't been on the board in two days. Yeah...and he has a fight of mine that hasn't been done yet either...deadline in about 6 hours and change... |
| Aramil Dunskar09-05-05, 10:33 PM | sorry for the delay Talari vs Aranor vs Grakk (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7151631&postcount=324) is up...and it was kinda wierd Yea, you can say that again.... However, unless there are any objections to the fight, does this count as two wins or one, and in the winning and losing thing, it says i get one count for winning and one count for losing, shouldn't i get 2 counts for winning? -Aramil |
| NiQil09-05-05, 11:02 PM | sorry for the delay Talari vs Aranor vs Grakk (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7151631&postcount=324) is up...and it was kinda wierd I'm not an expert, since I don't pitlord, but the rewards for the fight don't seem correct. Someone with more knowledge about the subject might want to double check them....maybe it's just me. |
| Sindorin09-05-05, 11:06 PM | sorry for the delay Talari vs Aranor vs Grakk (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7151631&postcount=324) is up...and it was kinda wierd Thank you, nightbanegod, I appreciate the effort you put into running that fight! It looked great. It was bad luck on my part for getting stuck between that ruckus... but overall I am very happy that I get 2x losers shares instead of just one... Again, I appreciate the pitlording. |
| Sindorin09-05-05, 11:08 PM | Yea, you can say that again.... However, unless there are any objections to the fight, does this count as two wins or one, and in the winning and losing thing, it says i get one count for winning and one count for losing, shouldn't i get 2 counts for winning? -Aramil Well, In attempting to blast your character to smithereens I was the one who dropped your target, effectively painting myself as your target from there. No one got that share, so I was essentially the only target that was killed. In the FAQ it is explained pretty clearly that you have to be the one to drop your target in order to receive a win share for said target. nightbanegod was correct in allocating rewards. |
| TelinArtho09-05-05, 11:28 PM | Yeah...and he has a fight of mine that hasn't been done yet either...deadline in about 6 hours and change... Well you know that I pick up fights that seem to be missing - once they are marked as late - post again and I'll grab it. |
| Huan09-05-05, 11:31 PM | Bare-Bones of Balbanes vs Yasha (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7169611) is up. Short Version: Major good and bad luck yes, but was there a violation in the agreement...? You decide. (Correct the rewards, if possible... I think I may have done them incorrectly :P ) |
| TelinArtho09-05-05, 11:53 PM | Actually there's a bit of a violation on Balbane's part - his scroll of Extended Acid Arrow has the wrong price. Acid Arrow is SL 2 - so extended makes it lvl 3. This means the minimum CL for the scroll is 5. The cost of the scroll should be (3)*(5)*25 = 375gp. Since he only has 67gp left and the difference between this cost and the cost he has listed is 125gp - he's got to sell something. However, I don't see anything mechanical within the fight that appears amiss... can't comment on the rewards either yet. |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-05-05, 11:57 PM | @Sindorin In an All vs All fight, everyone has a target which is determined by the order characters are listed in the Pairings Post: A -> B -> C -> D -> A. You may attack any gladiator but you will only get rewards for killed targets. Once you have defeated your target, you will immedeately and automatically get your target's target. You will receive winner rewards for every target of yours that has been defeatedx. If you have defeated no one you will still gain loser rewards as if you had fought a 1v1 match vs your target. I don't think I am reading this the same way you are. I am reading that if your target dies, you get the points. I think Aramil should get the points for both kills. @Huan I think there was a violation on Balbanes's part with the acid arow. An acid arrow attack is not a melee attack. |
| Kaigan09-06-05, 12:15 AM | Ellorion vs. Cid is up. Please check for errors. The Fight was won by a crit. |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-06-05, 12:25 AM | never mind |
| Kaigan09-06-05, 12:40 AM | Anixx commands 2 Ghouls is up. I'm not sure what the ruling for this is. When he commands the Ghouls is that it? Does he "win" the fight, or must he defeat them. And if commanding them counts as a win, does he get gold and xp for the fight? If this "fight" is incorrect, i will change it tomorrow. Please help me! Thanks. kaigan |
| Snommelp09-06-05, 12:49 AM | Well, In attempting to blast your character to smithereens I was the one who dropped your target, effectively painting myself as your target from there. No one got that share, so I was essentially the only target that was killed. In the FAQ it is explained pretty clearly that you have to be the one to drop your target in order to receive a win share for said target. nightbanegod was correct in allocating rewards. In that case, Luni needs to fix Nexa's reward, since Grik killed her target. |
| Luni09-06-05, 12:50 AM | @Nightbanegod: Talari should cast 1: Prot. from Energy [Fire] in the first round, instead of standing around doing nothing. Also, Resist Energy Acid should be cast round 2. I'm not sure if Dissolving weapon is vulnearble to Area Dispel, as it is on the weapon. |
| Gonbow09-06-05, 12:52 AM | Bare-Bones of Balbanes vs Yasha (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7169611) is up. Short Version: Major good and bad luck yes, but was there a violation in the agreement...? You decide. (Correct the rewards, if possible... I think I may have done them incorrectly :P ) Re: Reach Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away. Of course, that didn't actually come into play. @Sindorin I don't think I am reading this the same way you are. I am reading that if your target dies, you get the points. I think Aramil should get the points for both kills. @Huan I think there was a violation on Balbanes's part with the acid arow. An acid arrow attack is not a melee attack. As far as tactics go... His entire tactic is hitting me with a spell then running away. Yeah, that's a breach. But if that's what he wanted to do, that's fine. I did have some advanced warning, as he had to get the scroll in the blackmarket and I was pretty sure he was going to use it against me. But a verbal agreement is hardly binding in the cutthroat world of Arena Combat. It just means I won't trust him again ;) Oh and Yasha is a she. Exp is correct, gold should be 266 + Craft: Torture Device gp (80), so Yasha should get 266 experience and 346 gold. (Almost enough to cover the two potions, much less the tattoo. Bah.) |
| Sindorin09-06-05, 01:05 AM | In an All vs All fight, everyone has a target which is determined by the order characters are listed in the Pairings Post: A -> B -> C -> D -> A. You may attack any gladiator but you will only get rewards for killed targets. Once you have defeated your target, you will immedeately and automatically get your target's target. You will receive winner rewards for every target of yours that has been defeatedx. If you have defeated no one you will still gain loser rewards as if you had fought a 1v1 match vs your target. I guess bolding different parts of the rules leads to different interpretation of said rules. Emphasis mine - the bolded part implies that you must kill to get credit... I guess going further could reveal that I may only get 1 loser's worth of rewards rather than 2. These All vs. All things are silly. |
| King Uther09-06-05, 01:08 AM | Things to mention.... I agreed to kill him in melee, and that was my intention. I've already sent him a PM to make sure there are no hard feelings. Also, my experience reward will be higher because I am EL3. |
| Luni09-06-05, 01:09 AM | Anixx commands 2 Ghouls is up. I'm not sure what the ruling for this is. When he commands the Ghouls is that it? Does he "win" the fight, or must he defeat them. And if commanding them counts as a win, does he get gold and xp for the fight? If this "fight" is incorrect, i will change it tomorrow. Please help me! Thanks. kaigan Annix can't command ghouls as you need to be an 8th level cleric to command ghouls. ( 2HD +2 Turn Resistance )*2 to Command = 8 |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-06-05, 01:23 AM | @Sindorin The part that you bolded doesn't say anything about who has to kill your target. It just says if your target dies, you get the reward. But I do agree, the All vs.All is bad |
| Malither7609-06-05, 01:30 AM | Goran VS Czernobog is up |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-06-05, 02:06 AM | Anixx commands 2 Ghouls is up. I'm not sure what the ruling for this is. When he commands the Ghouls is that it? Does he "win" the fight, or must he defeat them. And if commanding them counts as a win, does he get gold and xp for the fight? If this "fight" is incorrect, i will change it tomorrow. Please help me! Thanks. kaigan one HUGE problems with this. Ghouls have +2 turn resistance. That means Annix cannot control a ghoul until she/he reaches 8th level. But yes, IF he/she were able to command them, it would be a win xp for the CR of the creatures and they would get the gp reward as well. Since Annix is a very good rebuker, just switch the ghouls up with 4 skeletons. [+375xp] [+375 gp] for that character. Skeletons would be an automatic rebuke/command for Annix. -ToK **EDIT Dang Luni, you're just too fast for me. |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-06-05, 02:16 AM | Things to mention.... I agreed to kill him in melee, and that was my intention. I've already sent him a PM to make sure there are no hard feelings. Also, my experience reward will be higher because I am EL3. Off in the distance, a shadowy black figure silent applauds Balbanes guile. "Yup...sucker them into thinking it's a fair fight, and hit 'em where it hurts. Right in the pride." A silent as the rising of the moon, the dark shadowy figure slips away into the cold dark night. -ToK |
| Kaigan09-06-05, 02:19 AM | but technically, he could command one ghoul. It's Iced's decision, he Pmed me saying he wanted 2 ghouls, so I'll let him decide. |
| Gonbow09-06-05, 02:53 AM | The battle of the Vees (A.K.A Victor vrs Vivi) is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7170885&postcount=340). I waited until the last second for some kind of pm/email from Victor, even to say that he didn't have time to write tactics, but nothing... <shrugs> EDIT: Yasha shrugs off her defeat, "No one is invincible; and this one is as strong as he thinks he is. If I had gotten in a single blow, the day would have been mine." That said, she gears up and gets ready for the next challenge. One loss out of four battles isn't exactly bad; especially when you've slain 5 out of 6 opponents, it looks even better. |
| michael_noah09-06-05, 08:57 AM | Hagrid vs. Brilf will be up soon - As soon as I fix all of my mistakes... |
| Ribking09-06-05, 09:03 AM | I had a very enjoyable first week. Just wanted to give congrats to Archie Longbow, and a thanks to Ellorion Saenelle for running my first arena match. I've already learned tons of stuff! Looks like I'm really going to enjoy it here. :D How many people here create a character and realize the most obvious flaws only after fighting a match? (raises hand) What do you do in this case? Do you get to revemp the character? Do you just recreate the character? Or do you ride it out? |
| Tellish_of_Ket09-06-05, 09:04 AM | but technically, he could command one ghoul. It's Iced's decision, he Pmed me saying he wanted 2 ghouls, so I'll let him decide. No, Annix cannot command a single ghoul. It would require that Annix be 8hd to even BE ABLE TO COMMAND them. Once Annix is 8th level, she can command two ghouls, but not until then. -ToK |
| Sindorin09-06-05, 09:24 AM | I had a very enjoyable first week. Just wanted to give congrats to Archie Longbow, and a thanks to Ellorion Saenelle for running my first arena match. I've already learned tons of stuff! Looks like I'm really going to enjoy it here. :D How many people here create a character and realize the most obvious flaws only after fighting a match? (raises hand) What do you do in this case? Do you get to revemp the character? Do you just recreate the character? Or do you ride it out? Yes, you will realize how much can be learned here very quickly. Whether or not your character has obvious flaws, your ability to change things on your character sheet depends on whether you have used whatever you are wanting to change from (i.e. I take Lightning Reflexes and change it after a couple weeks when I realize that I don't need the boost to my Reflex Save, and I also realize that there are lots of casters out there, so I take Iron Will instead - this is only possible if I haven't used Lightning Reflexes yet.). Unless they made yet another change while I was gone, you should be okay to change something as long as it hasn't been used. The reason that we have allowed changes like this is because, contrary to popular belief, this board focuses on optimization, thus we would hate to see a build retired because of a simple mistake. |
| Altaris1309-06-05, 09:40 AM | Has anyone seen Altaris? He hasn't finished revising the fight for the original problems that my opponent brought up - and for that matter has not responded to any of the points I've brought up Hey guys, sorry about the crappy running of the fight. Sorry to Niqil for not having your fight up. I had some personal issues that came up this weekend while I was running that first fight. Telin, if you don't mind, I'll forward Niqil's tactics on to you. I won't be able to run it until tonight. I never did get tactics for Madner, so you'll have to go with default. I'll work on editing the fight between Luni/Telin. It will be slow going though since I'm at work. |
| michael_noah09-06-05, 09:46 AM | More Questions: I believe, contrary to what one of my gladiators said, that if you fail a concentration check to manifest from a power stone while grappling, you lose the stone. Is this right? If you fail to cast a spell, you lose it, so it should be the same with the stone... |
| TelinArtho09-06-05, 09:47 AM | No problem Altaris - I just wanted to make sure the fight was resolve satisfactorily - since Valkin goes on Campaign next week. @Pitlords - I'm taking Altaris's other fight (Madner vs Niqil's character). |
| Altaris1309-06-05, 09:55 AM | Thanks Telin. |
| Ribking09-06-05, 09:58 AM | The flaws in my character were not really combat-based (my range problem is easily fixed), it has to do with my ability scores. Would it be possible to change my INT and WIS scores (point-buy still at 36)? I'd like to lower my WIS by 2 points and raise my INT by 2 points. But this greatly impacts my Skills also.... Is this possible? If not, could I retire and restart Greefe? |
| Mind Rogue09-06-05, 10:00 AM | @ Cerebrus and Gonbow Either Greevus or Yasha is now the top ranked fighter in the ECL 4 bracket (depending on how much Yasha's power changed after the last fight). Zahrat just leveled up on the campaign and is moving up in the world... If my calculations are correct, this makes her the top ranked gladiator in the ECL 5 bracket... but she's campaigning. @ Pitlords Zahrat leveled up and should be moved from ECL 4 to ECL 5. |
| michael_noah09-06-05, 10:05 AM | Hagrid 2 vs. Brilf is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7172529&postcount=341). I had a lot of issues because tactics did not really specify which actions were preferable to others - whether buffing should be interupted in order to perform contingencies, or if buffing should be finished, so I spent a lot of time debating which actions to take. I hope I made the right choices. I also had issues because I made a bunch of mistakes... including not catching an error in tactics until very late - as per my question above. |
| Altaris1309-06-05, 10:16 AM | Anyone know where Iced is at? I'm looking forward to pounding this upstart. :D Maeril (Usurpator) vs Zamier (Altaris31): Iced Just curious. |
| Pittbull09-06-05, 10:22 AM | @Michael: The only things I noticed were that Brilf is medium-sized and Hagrid counts a huge being enlarged. Doesn't Brilf lose all grapple-checks automatically, because he's two sizes smaller than Hagrid? And secondly, isn't flurry of blows a fullround-action and making a grapple-check a standart-action? You can't flurry and grapple in the same round. I might wrong, so please correct me. EDIT: Please add that Hagrid earns 126gp with his profession, thank you. |
| Kaigan09-06-05, 10:28 AM | No, Annix cannot command a single ghoul. It would require that Annix be 8hd to even BE ABLE TO COMMAND them. Once Annix is 8th level, she can command two ghouls, but not until then. -ToK Okay, well I'll Pm Iced, and ask him what to do. Thanks for the help. |
| michael_noah09-06-05, 10:36 AM | @Pitbull: I added the profession money. You're partly right about the grapple checks, and I forgot this. Brilf would automatically lose any checks made to hold Hagrid - but not checks to avoid being hurt, etc. This would change the other version of the fight if it was needed, because Hagrid could just exit the grapple for free and manifest the stone instead of making concentration checks. I think the ruling on flurrying while grappling is unclear. The RAW seems to say that you only get extra attacks in a grapple from BAB. Flurrying can take place in a full attack, but the Grappling rules do not point out if it is the Full Attack action that is taking place, or something else. However, I believe the Rules of the Game, the FAQ, or something has clarified (contradicted?) this, and I think it makes sense. |
| TelinArtho09-06-05, 10:43 AM | Adlar vs Methos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7172798) @Pitlords - Madner has not been on the boards since Aug 26 and according to his character Adlar wasn't set to ready since Aug 3rd. You may want to remove the character from the active roster. /d |
| Pittbull09-06-05, 10:49 AM | @Michael: Thanks lot for making this clear! |
| Gonbow09-06-05, 11:36 AM | @Pitbull: I added the profession money. You're partly right about the grapple checks, and I forgot this. Brilf would automatically lose any checks made to hold Hagrid - but not checks to avoid being hurt, etc. This would change the other version of the fight if it was needed, because Hagrid could just exit the grapple for free and manifest the stone instead of making concentration checks. I think the ruling on flurrying while grappling is unclear. The RAW seems to say that you only get extra attacks in a grapple from BAB. Flurrying can take place in a full attack, but the Grappling rules do not point out if it is the Full Attack action that is taking place, or something else. However, I believe the Rules of the Game, the FAQ, or something has clarified (contradicted?) this, and I think it makes sense. It's been ruled in CoCo that monks can flurry in grapples. I dunno about auto-losing checks, but that's the deal with monks. |
| TelinArtho09-06-05, 12:23 PM | @Altaris13 - I just PMed this to you, but in case you don't look there first: S uses a move action to stow the bow, then nudges FF forward, 5ft step while drawing her staff. She continues to try & kill F. 5 & 13 +5/+5 = 10 & 18 vs AC14, one hit I've already commented that if she stows the bow that I get an AoO. Additionally however, since she used her move action, she can't do a full attack with the staff - meaning she doesn't hit that round. |
| TelinArtho09-06-05, 12:32 PM | From a quick once over that I did it appears that the only two fights outstanding are Iced's. If the gladiators for those fights would like me to take them - feel free to PM your tactics to me. Obviously if Iced spoke up between now and whenever I post the fight (if the tactics are sent to me), I'll defer to him. |
| Pitlords09-06-05, 12:44 PM | @Nightbanegod: The rewards for your All vs All fight are wrong. Both losers got 1000 xp; that's way too much. Grakk gets only a winner share, not a loser share in addition! Aranor gets only 1x loser share, not two. Same for Talari. Grakk gets a winner reward because Talari dropped first (which was his target). That also means Talari gets 1xloser rewards in any case. Then he dropped his new target (Aranor) which gives him another winner share, ie 2xwinner rewards for Grakk. The other two only 1xloser. Please correct that and inform your players of the change! |
| Sindorin09-06-05, 12:46 PM | @Nightbanegod: The rewards for your All vs All fight are wrong. Both losers got 1000 xp; that's way too much. Grakk gets only a winner share, not a loser share in addition! Aranor gets only 1x loser share, not two. Same for Talari. Grakk gets a winner reward because Talari dropped first (which was his target). That also means Talari gets 1xloser rewards in any case. Then he dropped his new target (Aranor) which gives him another winner share, ie 2xwinner rewards for Grakk. The other two only 1xloser. Please correct that and inform your players of the change! All the more reason why an All vs. All fight should never be assigned without the consent of the participants EVER AGAIN... *le sigh* |
| Altaris1309-06-05, 12:49 PM | @Altaris13 - I just PMed this to you, but in case you don't look there first: I've already commented that if she stows the bow that I get an AoO. Additionally however, since she used her move action, she can't do a full attack with the staff - meaning she doesn't hit that round. D'oh! I knew something looked wrong about that, thanks for pointing it out. :D |
| Sindorin09-06-05, 12:49 PM | The flaws in my character were not really combat-based (my range problem is easily fixed), it has to do with my ability scores. Would it be possible to change my INT and WIS scores (point-buy still at 36)? I'd like to lower my WIS by 2 points and raise my INT by 2 points. But this greatly impacts my Skills also.... Is this possible? If not, could I retire and restart Greefe? Usually if it has to do with ability scores, depending on what class you have, you may be able to slightly adjust something. You can always simply restart your character but you lose all exp/gp you have earned. This allows also for further changes perhaps than the ones you had intended, so it may be favorable. |
| Usurpator09-06-05, 12:52 PM | All the more reason why an All vs. All fight should never be assigned without the consent of the participants EVER AGAIN... *le sigh* Actually, I like the idea of a All vs. All fight. I do think the distribution of rewards is a problem. And I don't like the circular forced targets as well, but I'm guessing there's a philosophy behind arranging it that way. |
| Gonbow09-06-05, 12:57 PM | Actually, I like the idea of a All vs. All fight. I do think the distribution of rewards is a problem. And I don't like the circular forced targets as well, but I'm guessing there's a philosophy behind arranging it that way. Reportedly, it is to prevent collusion between gladiators. IMHO I don't tihnk it will be an issue, but eh :P |
| Usurpator09-06-05, 12:58 PM | From a quick once over that I did it appears that the only two fights outstanding are Iced's. If the gladiators for those fights would like me to take them - feel free to PM your tactics to me. Obviously if Iced spoke up between now and whenever I post the fight (if the tactics are sent to me), I'll defer to him. I like to have the fight finished before the Wednesday deadline, so if Iced can't make and you like to take it, I would appreciate it. I am PMing my tactics now. Besides I am eagerly anticipating to get Maeril's upstart butt kicked by Zamier. :D But I guess Zamier's the upstart here, with only 0 fights on his record. :thinks: Or are you referring to me, Altaris13? ;) |
| Usurpator09-06-05, 01:06 PM | Reportedly, it is to prevent collusion between gladiators. IMHO I don't tihnk it will be an issue, but eh :P I guess that's possible. Has it happened before? A good CE gladiator will play both sides, though. And in a 3 man FFA both remaining gladiators will have to fight each other as well, so both will be tempted to let the other gladiator take the risks and spend the resources. |
| NiQil09-06-05, 01:06 PM | Actually, I like the idea of a All vs. All fight. I do think the distribution of rewards is a problem. And I don't like the circular forced targets as well, but I'm guessing there's a philosophy behind arranging it that way. This was being decided right as I came in to CoCo a couple of months ago, so I may not have them totally correct...but the reasoning behind the circular forced targets was to prevent people from just waiting until someone is extremely hurt and swooping in to kill someone and stealing the experience for that kill. The only issue now, is that what we are seeing is people specifying to heal someone that is not their target and then re-killing them just to get the credit. So the circular targets isn't really solving anything. It was also thought that this would cause lots of people to just go invisible and wait, which was the reason behind a 5-round delay rule in these fights instead of the standard 10. The 5-round delay is a good idea, but the circular target thing just isn't working. As far as the rewards go, I would have to agree that these need to be reworked. In a FFA, you are generally expending more resources regardless of whether you win or lose. Getting the same 300 xp/gp that a 1v1 fight would give for losing seems poor compensation. For a 4-person FFA, I would think that something like giving anyone who was killed without killing someone a 150% share (450 gp/xp), and then if you kill someone but get killed, you get a winners share for each kill you had plus a 150% losers share. And then the overall winner can get a winner's share for each kill plus a bonus award of an additional 50% winners share (450 gp/xp). These numbers might need some tweaking, but that way it's not such a drain on someone who participates in these fights only to lose and be worse off losing than they were going in. |
| TelinArtho09-06-05, 01:12 PM | @Usurpator - tactics received. @Altaris13 - if you want me to run the fight - send me the tactics for Zamier. |
| Luni09-06-05, 01:14 PM | This was being decided right as I came in to CoCo a couple of months ago, so I may not have them totally correct...but the reasoning behind the circular forced targets was to prevent people from just waiting until someone is extremely hurt and swooping in to kill someone and stealing the experience for that kill. The only issue now, is that what we are seeing is people specifying to heal someone that is not their target and then re-killing them just to get the credit. So the circular targets isn't really solving anything. It was also thought that this would cause lots of people to just go invisible and wait, which was the reason behind a 5-round delay rule in these fights instead of the standard 10. The 5-round delay is a good idea, but the circular target thing just isn't working. As far as the rewards go, I would have to agree that these need to be reworked. In a FFA, you are generally expending more resources regardless of whether you win or lose. Getting the same 300 xp/gp that a 1v1 fight would give for losing seems poor compensation. For a 4-person FFA, I would think that something like giving anyone who was killed without killing someone a 150% share (450 gp/xp), and then if you kill someone but get killed, you get a winners share for each kill you had plus a 150% losers share. And then the overall winner can get a winner's share for each kill plus a bonus award of an additional 50% winners share (450 gp/xp). These numbers might need some tweaking, but that way it's not such a drain on someone who participates in these fights only to lose and be worse off losing than they were going in. The main thing I'm seeing, is one character [Grik] killing the other gladiator who isn't his target, and the third person gets all the xp, even though they didn't even affect the combat at all. It is also hard to find your opponent if he is invisible, and you have a flying Barbarian trying to slice you up in melee. You want to kill the invisible person, not the one that is trying to kill you. |
| Snommelp09-06-05, 01:16 PM | This was being decided right as I came in to CoCo a couple of months ago, so I may not have them totally correct...but the reasoning behind the circular forced targets was to prevent people from just waiting until someone is extremely hurt and swooping in to kill someone and stealing the experience for that kill. I don't think there needs to be a rules solution to this. It's an okay tactic, and after a character uses it once, his opponents will be able to see it (that's one of the reasons links to past fights exist) and focus on taking the vulture out first. |
| NiQil09-06-05, 01:22 PM | I don't think there needs to be a rules solution to this. It's an okay tactic, and after a character uses it once, his opponents will be able to see it (that's one of the reasons links to past fights exist) and focus on taking the vulture out first. That is my thinking as well. I think doing away with the targets bit of the FFA would make them a little better. I would be willing to say that there has not been any instances of collusion yet, and I kinda doubt there would be, since this community of people is very good about keeping each other honest. I think eliminating the circular target requirement would help immensly. But I still think the reward system needs to be reworked as well. |
| Altaris1309-06-05, 01:36 PM | I like to have the fight finished before the Wednesday deadline, so if Iced can't make and you like to take it, I would appreciate it. I am PMing my tactics now. Besides I am eagerly anticipating to get Maeril's upstart butt kicked by Zamier. :D But I guess Zamier's the upstart here, with only 0 fights on his record. :thinks: Or are you referring to me, Altaris13? ;) Yes, yes I was referring to you. :D @Telin, I'm PMing tactics to you now for Zamier. Thanks in advance mate. Usurpator, good luck! |
| TelinArtho09-06-05, 01:50 PM | Ok - tactics received from Zamier - running the fight now. @Pitlords - I'm taking the Zamier vs Maeril fight from Iced since it is late and I have received both players' tactics. /d |
| Pitlords09-06-05, 01:53 PM | Ok, and who takes this one: Juntar Dunecrosser (KerlanRayne) vs Milo Tad (SodaGuy) |
| Usurpator09-06-05, 01:58 PM | Ok, and who takes this one: Juntar Dunecrosser (KerlanRayne) vs Milo Tad (SodaGuy) I can take it, if the KerlanRayne and SodaGuy would me so kind as to send me their tactics. |
| Altaris1309-06-05, 02:09 PM | OK... Sir Valkin vs Shakari Revision Umpteen Million and One is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7148019&postcount=323) Again, I apologize to both Luni and TelinArtho for doing such a crappy job. Hopefully everything is in order and correct this time. |
| Luni09-06-05, 02:19 PM | @Altaris: Can you add Shakaris Proffesion to the rewards. |
| Altaris1309-06-05, 02:26 PM | @Altaris: Can you add Shakaris Proffesion to the rewards. I did already, that's why she got 300gp. Or did I do the rewards wrong? EDIT: 300*.93=279+21gp=300. Right? Also, is everything else in order? No other concerns or errors? |
| TelinArtho09-06-05, 02:31 PM | Shakari should get (7+10)*3 for her profession. Multiply the level of the character by their total when taking 10 on the skill. In other words it should be 51gp from it, not 21gp. |
| Luni09-06-05, 02:37 PM | Shakari should get (7+10)*3 for her profession. Multiply the level of the character by their total when taking 10 on the skill. In other words it should be 51gp from it, not 21gp. Should be 54. My math in the skills is wrong. 5+3 = 8 not 7 as I wrote down. 10+8=18 *3 = 54 |
| NiQil09-06-05, 02:41 PM | I'm no expert, but this is what I come up with for rewards for Altaris13's fight.... Valkin receives ((900 base x 0.75 to take away penalty for mount) = 675 x 1.25 (giving bonus for opponents mount)) = 843.75 xp/gp + any skill earnings. Shakari receives ((300 base x 0.75 to take away penalty for mount) = 225 x 1.25 (giving bonus for opponents mount)) = 281.25 xp/gp + any skill earnings. The numbers work out the same regardless of whether you do the 0.75 first or the 1.25 first. |
| Usurpator09-06-05, 02:44 PM | @KerlanRayne Received tactics for Juntar Dunecrosser. PM'ed SodaGuy asking for his tactics for Milo Tad. |
| TelinArtho09-06-05, 02:46 PM | Niqil's right - not sure where you got your figures (did you actually use .93?). The fight looks fine to me (of course it does, I won... no seriously, I only see one error and it has no effect whatsoever - I get a -2 on my crossbow for firing one handed). Anyway, thanks for finishing it up. Now, back to your fight... |
| Altaris1309-06-05, 02:57 PM | Yes, I did actually use .93. Should I be doing the XP as .75 then 1.25? And I'll edit the profession gold when I get an answer on that. Sorry, I did *3 of the profession total (forgot about the take 10.) :( Man I'm starving. Between this and the day I've had at work, I'm three hours past my lunch break. |
| NiQil09-06-05, 03:03 PM | Yes, I did actually use .93. Should I be doing the XP as .75 then 1.25? And I'll edit the profession gold when I get an answer on that. Sorry, I did *3 of the profession total (forgot about the take 10.) :( Man I'm starving. Between this and the day I've had at work, I'm three hours past my lunch break. Yes, you should use the 0.75 and then the 1.25. Even though it is only a few points difference, it could make a big difference down the line if they get close to leveling. Feel free to steal my calculations. |
| Altaris1309-06-05, 03:10 PM | XP & GP revised as follows: Valkin: +843XP & GP ShakarI: +281XP & 335GP including Profession |
| TelinArtho09-06-05, 04:07 PM | Maeril vs Zamier (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7175598) Just when you think everything is going wrong for one person and right for the other - a horse might get a critical to throw the tide... |
| NiQil09-06-05, 04:14 PM | Maeril vs Zamier (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7175598) Just when you think everything is going wrong for one person and right for the other - a horse might get a critical to throw the tide... <coughforemancough> |
| Altaris1309-06-05, 04:24 PM | Damn horse. :D 1 more point of damage! One more! Actually, very good tactics Usurp, I commend you. It never crossed my mind that you would try to pin me. Also, Telin, He gets a Will save for half on the Inflict, FYI. Thanks for a quick post & a good job. Thanks for the advice too. An ape ally would be cool, but I don't have Handle Animal. |
| Usurpator09-06-05, 04:31 PM | Maeril vs Zamier (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7175598) Just when you think everything is going wrong for one person and right for the other - a horse might get a critical to throw the tide... Heironeous didn't let me down, justice was done! TelinArtho, thank you for running the fight. And Inspiration, thank you for saving my but. A few remarks and questions: - I can understand that the horse can't attack if you are on top of it, or at least not with his hooves. I don't think there is a rule against it though, just common sense, so I was curious how that would turn out. - Normally you get a Ride check to avoid failing damage, but it makes sense that being in a Grapple makes that use of the skill for Maeril impossible in this case. - Why didn't my familiar Snaggle attack Zamier or at least use Aid Another (as specified in my tactics)? - I was lucky with the critical form Inspiration, but glad that my tactics paid off. I sort of bet on Altaris13 not anticipating that I would not try to escape the grapple, but try to pin him instead. - I didn't bet on Zamier using invisibility, I thought that even without it he would have a very good chance of beating me, since I couldn't hit him with his buffs up. - BTW, I think Zamier's AC was 14 on that last series of attacks: 10(base)+4(armor)+4(shield)-4(pinned), no Dex(grappling), no Monk/Wis (immobilized because of Pin: see Pin and Monk class description). |
| Usurpator09-06-05, 04:37 PM | Damn horse. :D 1 more point of damage! One more! Actually, very good tactics Usurp, I commend you. It never crossed my mind that you would try to pin me. Also, Telin, He gets a Will save for half on the Inflict, FYI. Thanks for a quick post & a good job. Thank you! You did a very good job in creating you character. Couldn't really get an angle at first. Spells - don't work well enough, ranged combat - useless vs. deflect arrows, melee combat - can't hit your AC. What's a honest paladin to do? :confused: My only option was to get your AC lower, either by waiting for your buffs to run out, or by have you grappling my and going for the pin. Pinning would mean difference of 10 point of AC, that was huge, large enough that Inspiration might have a chance. And he did! :cheer: |
| TelinArtho09-06-05, 04:46 PM | Well, I just did the roll for giggles and found that he just barely made his save - so its more than just 1hp - if that makes you feel better. As to the matter of a horse attacking while two people are grappling on top of it - I can't say much other than that a) it makes sense this way b) it has been used against me in this way (against Ambellon or Sir Valkin - I don't remember which). As to the matter of snaggle aiding - well, its under a section in your tactics that never came up and, while I read over all of your tactics, I generally only use those that apply. I would suggest moving that part of your tactics into a more prominent place if you wish it to be taken into account (as it was, I had to go searching in your tactics to find it just now). I agree on the AC in that last series of attacks - it doesn't change anything (nor does it make a missed attack a hit). In any case, I won't be making these notes to the fight, but keep them in mind. |
| Altaris1309-06-05, 04:49 PM | Thank you! You did a very good job in creating you character. Couldn't really get an angle at first. Spells - don't work well enough, ranged combat - useless vs. deflect arrows, melee combat - can't hit your AC. What's a honest paladin to do? :confused: My only option was to get your AC lower, either by waiting for your buffs to run out, or by have you grappling my and going for the pin. Pinning would mean difference of 10 point of AC, that was huge, large enough that Inspiration might have a chance. And he did! :cheer: Thanks, as you seen in my tactics, you too did a good job with this build. It was just my luck I got pitted against someone with a few allies. ;) You're right, I was hoping my high AC would save me from the horse & evil weasal, and never considered being grappled in return. A lesson learned, and from a worthy foe. Definately one of the better fights I've been in. |
| Usurpator09-06-05, 05:04 PM | In any case, I won't be making these notes to the fight, but keep them in mind. No problem. Once again, thanx for running the fight at this late hour, I enjoyed it! |
| nightbanegod09-06-05, 05:23 PM | @Nightbanegod: The rewards for your All vs All fight are wrong. Both losers got 1000 xp; that's way too much. Grakk gets only a winner share, not a loser share in addition! Aranor gets only 1x loser share, not two. Same for Talari. Grakk gets a winner reward because Talari dropped first (which was his target). That also means Talari gets 1xloser rewards in any case. Then he dropped his new target (Aranor) which gives him another winner share, ie 2xwinner rewards for Grakk. The other two only 1xloser. Please correct that and inform your players of the change! i was under the impression that you have to kill your own target... well on that note HURRAY GRAKK EXP redistribution Grakk 3000 xp/gp Aranor 500 xp/gp Talari 500 xp/gp *edit* and on a side note. you didnt "do nothing" the first 2 rounds.. you heard spell casting before you even took an action and in your tactics it says Buffing actions: If opponents are heard nearby or spotted, stop buffing. Share all spells with Gryphos. and i considered the locating via listen check and making a basic inteligence call, i had you immediately begin to close, hoping to catch the mage before he was ready |
| Luni09-06-05, 06:34 PM | i was under the impression that you have to kill your own target... well on that note HURRAY GRAKK EXP redistribution Grakk 3000 xp/gp Aranor 500 xp/gp Talari 500 xp/gp *edit* and on a side note. you didnt "do nothing" the first 2 rounds.. you heard spell casting before you even took an action and in your tactics it says and i considered the locating via listen check and making a basic inteligence call, i had you immediately begin to close, hoping to catch the mage before he was ready Evidently my idea of nearby is different from yours... |
| NiQil09-06-05, 06:41 PM | @ Luni Clean out yer PM box :) |
| nightbanegod09-06-05, 10:36 PM | "Originally Posted by King Uther I am not opposed to either. Assuming a team battle becomes the suggested medium, is there anyone willing to join with Balbanes to smite these talented gladiators?" Dalamar will not offer to be your partner in this FFA, HOWEVER, he will offer to be a 4th person in an all out 4 person FFA !!! ... have you the GUTS to accept? turning a blind eye King uther? |
| King Uther09-07-05, 12:58 AM | No, I just figured it would be too difficult to pull something off like that. If you are so confident in Dalamar's abilities, perhaps you will make a challenge? |
| KerlanRayne09-07-05, 05:19 AM | @Iced: For Juntar's fight, I have some problems. Was Milo hiding? There were no Hide or Spot rolls, but you said I was caught flatfooted. You can't ready a Rapid Shot because it's a full round action. It looks like I passed both Fort saves because they are DC 13. On crits you have to roll the 1d6 base damage twice not just double it. Some of these could greatly change the outcome. If he readies a single shot, it would still hit my AC 22 but I passed the Fort save. With keeping the rolls, the next attack would miss and for the next hit I would pass the save again. KerlanRayne |
| nightbanegod09-07-05, 06:03 AM | No, I just figured it would be too difficult to pull something off like that. If you are so confident in Dalamar's abilities, perhaps you will make a challenge? Just did i thought. Dalamar vs Balbanes vs Oma-na Sento vs Greevus FFA style no teams it would be the championship bout of the week!!! sooo King Uther, LLMadcow, Cerebus13 ... which of you are in and which of you are out? |
| Cerebus1309-07-05, 08:19 AM | Just did i thought. Dalamar vs Balbanes vs Oma-na Sento vs Greevus FFA style no teams it would be the championship bout of the week!!! sooo King Uther, LLMadcow, Cerebus13 ... which of you are in and which of you are out?Could we possibly delay this one week? I'm completely swamped right now at work and I'm going out of town this weekend (again!)...so I need to take the week off from pitlording and writing my own tactics because I won't have time for them. |
| Altaris1309-07-05, 08:26 AM | Is that a challenge for ECL 4 PCs? |
| Sunwolf09-07-05, 11:19 AM | @michael_noah I think that I have to agree that a failure to manifest (concentration check) should lose the power in the stone. I can't find quote that lead me to believe otherwise -- I think it was the manifester check not the concentration check. As to grapples vs huge creatures. Medium creatures can make grapple checks vs huge creatures. They just can't hold onto huge creatures or pin them. Congrats to Hagrid on the win this week. |
| NiQil09-07-05, 11:49 AM | @michael_noah I think that I have to agree that a failure to manifest (concentration check) should lose the power in the stone. I can't find quote that lead me to believe otherwise -- I think it was the manifester check not the concentration check. As to grapples vs huge creatures. Medium creatures can make grapple checks vs huge creatures. They just can't hold onto huge creatures or pin them. Congrats to Hagrid on the win this week. Not only do they lose the power, but they also suffer Brainburn. Brainburn: When something goes awry, the user of a power stone improperly manifests the stored power. The resultant psionic surge persists for 1d4 rounds, unless the power stone is flung farther than 100 feet away or is destroyed. This surge deals 1d6 points of damage per power stored per round and arcs across multiple targets, similar to energy current, except the damage type isn’t specified. The user is the primary target, and one nearby ally is the secondary target (chosen at random). The manifester level for a standard power stone is the minimum manifester level needed to manifest the power (unless otherwise specified). |
| TelinArtho09-07-05, 11:55 AM | @NiQil - you only suffer brainburn if you fail because of the ML check AND fail a DC5 Wisdom check. If you lose the power through lack of concentration - no ill effect happens. |
| NiQil09-07-05, 12:06 PM | @NiQil - you only suffer brainburn if you fail because of the ML check AND fail a DC5 Wisdom check. If you lose the power through lack of concentration - no ill effect happens. Hmm...you are correct about that....I guess I misread the entry about manifesting from the stone. That's what I get for skimming instead of actually reading. |
| King Uther09-07-05, 01:28 PM | Okay, I accept. But only if all 4 people agree to go in. Also, we have to wait a week for Greevus. Question: If you kill all opponents in a FFA but in the wrong order for whatever reason, would you retroactively gain the experiencesince he'll eventually be your target? |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-07-05, 03:57 PM | I don't think so, I think you only get th award if your target dies, while he's your target. Besides, would the dead character even become your target, seeing as he's no longer the other enemy's target. You would get the new target of your target. |
| nightbanegod09-07-05, 04:05 PM | Okay, I accept. But only if all 4 people agree to go in. Also, we have to wait a week for Greevus. Question: If you kill all opponents in a FFA but in the wrong order for whatever reason, would you retroactively gain the experiencesince he'll eventually be your target? i would also only be in on it if all of ya agreed. and on the note of killing everyone not in the same order. if you only get credit for your target dieing while he's your target, why did Grakk get credit for Talari's death when he wasnt OFFICIALLY the one who killed him? i could use another 3 person FFA so that Dalamar would level up again pretty quick |
| Sindorin09-07-05, 04:22 PM | i would also only be in on it if all of ya agreed. and on the note of killing everyone not in the same order. if you only get credit for your target dieing while he's your target, why did Grakk get credit for Talari's death when he wasnt OFFICIALLY the one who killed him? i could use another 3 person FFA so that Dalamar would level up again pretty quick Again, this is why the targeting house rules are really really not in the spirit of the arena. Ban, Withdraw, Undo the stupid things... or at least change from the stupid A->B->C->D->A rule. |
| Ellorion Saenelle09-07-05, 04:26 PM | It doesn't matter who gets the kill, just who is targeting him at the time. So since Talari was Grakk's target, Grakk gets the award, even though the other gu killed him. It should be whoever gets a kill gets those points, that way, everyone will try to fight fo the awards, and nobody is getting jipped out of their kills. |
| Snommelp09-07-05, 04:27 PM | Again, this is why the targeting house rules are really really not in the spirit of the arena. Ban, Withdraw, Undo the stupid things... or at least change from the stupid A->B->C->D->A rule. I posted a movement in the Council regarding this, but Cat's serious when he says no other discussions until the guild thing is settled. |
| Sindorin09-07-05, 04:32 PM | I think that what Cat told you just may be a German dialect that means 'filibuster'. Having guilds is fun, true. But getting screwed over weekly by a stupid house rule saying that I kill one person and get no exp then get stomped by the person who was supposed to kill the person I killed just isn't fair at all. (even though if her tactics had been followed, I wouldn't have damaged her... shh) |
| nightbanegod09-07-05, 04:55 PM | alright alright ... if theres a situation pops up where theres a grey area possible... like the definition of close ... i will PM the person in question and ask for a little bit of clarification ... as it is ... i figured if he had located the mage on round 1 he would attempt to close with the mage *thus preemptivly ending the buff sequence* as soon as possible, and took actions accordingly |