Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 11:53 AM	Good morning all. This the thread to discuss this week's fights. Usual rules apply (play nice or else...). The rules of Gladius can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448520). We should have about 4 hours left to edit - though its always a good idea to be finished early. -- TelinArtho
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 12:02 PM	I opened the thread early because it looks like its going to be a busy week for me... I've got 9 characters active: Kraegin (ECL6) - crafting Daeren (ECL7) - questing (1 credit) Aquin (ECL6) - accepting a challenge (1 credit) Pure Evil (ECL5) - campaign (no credit cost) Vakkor (ECL4) - campaign (no credit cost) Delaria (ECL4) - questing (1 credit) Sir Valkin (ECL4) - fighting in the arena Anakala (ECL3) - MQ Felan Turok (ECL3) - fighting in the arena So total credit costs: Active PCs (7-2=5) + Quests (2) + Challenge (1) = 8 credits. I'm starting 2 quests this week, so that will recover 4 of them. I guess I'll just hope to have a bunch of fights to cover the rest... I might have to have Sir Valkin sit out for a week or two though - this is getting a little crazy. Sorry NiQil - maybe you'll have to challenge him to get a rematch... Sorry to everyone who got bored reading this - I just needed to do a sanity check and make sure I wasn't bleeding from too much credit expenditure...
Altaris13 11-16-05, 12:06 PM	You spend far too much time on this board mate. ;) I couldn't handle that many characters at once.
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 12:11 PM	Well, it probably won't last. Some of the characters will probably be inactive soon as I've either developed characters that should "replace" them or because I'm just not sure where they'll go. Aquin is a case example. I like the character, but in order to be effective - I've got to do much more planning - and I still think it will be a while before he gets there.
waywreth 11-16-05, 12:30 PM	I'm sticking with the one main character active and one character on rotation until I get bored with him.
Luni 11-16-05, 01:32 PM	I have active: Lady Tira [ECL 6]: [Campaign, free] Imperi Vahalla [ECL 5]: Fighting Shakari [ECL 5]: Fighting Ashhur [ECL 5]: Fighting Ariel [ECL 6]: Crafting Talari [ECL 7]: MQ And I have two more characters for next week.
Usurpator 11-16-05, 01:36 PM	I am rotating 2 active fighting characters. May add one crafting/questing/campaigning. I find I usually only have time to get two sets of tactics in on time, since I only have two evenings before the deadline, and one evening is usually spent doing something else besides sitting behind my computer.
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 03:00 PM	Old Bones and Good Times (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=537516) The Battle of Fael Daed (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=537512) These quests are ready to go - so let's go ahead and get going!
Snommelp 11-16-05, 03:13 PM	Jeeze, Telin, you put my three active PCs to shame! Seven... I couldn't hadle that many characters at once. I'd get them mixed up. This is fairly far into the future, but right before Hennan hits level 6, I'm going to want to take him on a quest to find his father. Maybe before that I'll have a quest to find his mother.
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 03:16 PM	I'm always up for questlording - so when you think he's ready, give me a couple of days to prepare and we'd be good.
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 03:21 PM	And to the question of my sanity for having that many characters active in a single week: 1 is crafting (in other words - no effort needed) 2 are campaigning (which tends to be more posts/week, but also tends to be a little slower on progress - this ebbs and flows with combat obviously) 1 is in a challenge (which means I've already prepared somewhat for how the tactics will be in the past few days) That leaves 3 in the arena - of which 1 is exceptionally easy to write tactics for (Sir Valkin - he doesn't have too many tricks at this point...). It also leaves the 2 on quests - which of course will have a lot of activity. Usually, I'm online a lot, so I'm able to poke my head in from time to time to keep myself up-to-date. At home, since I play a fair amount of online poker - the same thing can happen in between hands.
NiQil 11-16-05, 03:21 PM	Jeeze, Telin, you put my three active PCs to shame! Seven... I couldn't hadle that many characters at once. I'd get them mixed up. This is fairly far into the future, but right before Hennan hits level 6, I'm going to want to take him on a quest to find his father. Maybe before that I'll have a quest to find his mother. Maybe at 7th you can quest to have him find his dog.... And then at 8th he can quest for his original vocal cords... LOL just kidding....just struck me as funny LOL. Heh...I normally keep 4 characters active....I try and not go over that just because I don't have the credits to burn....if I did I could easily see myself with 8-12 characters active LOL.
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 03:24 PM	And now that I look at it - it seems that the prison still owes me about a dozen credits or so... so it doesn't look like I needed to be that worried anyway...
Altaris13 11-16-05, 03:25 PM	You still on the same 4 PC's Niqil? Isn't it past time for a change? Can't have you passing ECL 3 or anything...
Snommelp 11-16-05, 03:26 PM	Maybe at 7th you can quest to have him find his dog.... And then at 8th he can quest for his original vocal cords... LOL just kidding....just struck me as funny LOL.Oh, there's a reason I picked level 6. You wait; we'll see who's laughing. ...it will probably still be you. Heh...I normally keep 4 characters active....I try and not go over that just because I don't have the credits to burn....if I did I could easily see myself with 8-12 characters active LOL.Yeah, I could see that too. If you had Huan's supply, I shudder to think how many characters you'd have floating around...
Ribking 11-16-05, 03:27 PM	I have been waiting for a final ruling on Greefe's previous fight. A win would put Greefe into ECL5, but a loss would keep him in ECL4. In the Character thread, I saw that Greefe was indeed listed in the ECL5 league. That means he was awarded the winners' XP total from last weeks fight, right? I just finished updating Greefe.....about 18 minutes past the deadline. Pairings haven't been done yet, so is that alright? Will I get paired in the ECL5 league?
NiQil 11-16-05, 03:28 PM	You still on the same 4 PC's Niqil? Isn't it past time for a change? Can't have you passing ECL 3 or anything... Heh eat my shorts...all of my characters are leveled to 4 :P
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 03:29 PM	I have been waiting for a final ruling on Greefe's previous fight. A win would put Greefe into ECL5, but a loss would keep him in ECL4. In the Character thread, I saw that Greefe was indeed listed in the ECL5 league. That means he was awarded the winners' XP total from last weeks fight, right? I just finished updating Greefe.....about 18 minutes past the deadline. Pairings haven't been done yet, so is that alright? Will I get paired in the ECL5 league? There's still about 30 minutes until the deadline - so you're fine.
NiQil 11-16-05, 03:30 PM	I have been waiting for a final ruling on Greefe's previous fight. A win would put Greefe into ECL5, but a loss would keep him in ECL4. In the Character thread, I saw that Greefe was indeed listed in the ECL5 league. That means he was awarded the winners' XP total from last weeks fight, right? I just finished updating Greefe.....about 18 minutes past the deadline. Pairings haven't been done yet, so is that alright? Will I get paired in the ECL5 league? Deadline isn't for another half hour. You have time. And, barring nightbanegod swooping in here and announcing a reversal on the fight, go ahead and update yourself as a winner of the fight. I have already added the loss to Silas' sheet, since the result stands unless nightbanegod changes it before pairings.
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 03:31 PM	You still on the same 4 PC's Niqil? Isn't it past time for a change? Can't have you passing ECL 3 or anything... Yeah - in your absence you missed the parade that Cat had down the main streets of Gladius heralding that he doesn't have to keep track of the previous 4000 characters NiQil has gone through (and let's not forget those under his previous name).
NiQil 11-16-05, 03:32 PM	Oh, there's a reason I picked level 6. You wait; we'll see who's laughing. ...it will probably still be you. Yeah, I could see that too. If you had Huan's supply, I shudder to think how many characters you'd have floating around... I'm curious what the reason is, now...share share LOL. I have the possibility of quests for Kronos and Silas once they hit 5...both are going into prestige classes...and though only Kronos requires one, I may do one for Silas anyway...haven't decided yet. That reminds me...gotta work on the miniquests for their guild memberships pretty soon as well...
Ribking 11-16-05, 03:33 PM	Wow....I must have had my time zone settings mixed up or something. That's great....I didn't miss the deadline! ECL5, here I come.
NiQil 11-16-05, 03:34 PM	Yeah - in your absence you missed the parade that Cat had down the main streets of Gladius heralding that he doesn't have to keep track of the previous 4000 characters NiQil has gone through (and let's not forget those under his previous name). Heh...my problem is that I get bored with characters easily, so I have to have something that is gonna keep me interested...and if I get a new idea in my head for a concept, I generally want to try it out right away. But these characters will probably be around awhile, because they will all be in guilds, and because they are designed to have the builds start to mature at around levels 6-7...just gotta get em there.
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 03:38 PM	Heh...my problem is that I get bored with characters easily, so I have to have something that is gonna keep me interested...and if I get a new idea in my head for a concept, I generally want to try it out right away. But these characters will probably be around awhile, because they will all be in guilds, and because they are designed to have the builds start to mature at around levels 6-7...just gotta get em there. I've got a build in mind, but it doesn't really start to work until level 8 - though if I switch out one of the classes, it can work in as few as 4 (just not very well). I haven't decided if I feel like working through on that one yet...
NiQil 11-16-05, 03:41 PM	That reminds me... @ Cat: My birthday was on Monday! Happy birthday to me I'm almost thirty I really suck at songs So can I just have that credit for free? LOL gawd I suck at creativity....feel free to mock accordingly.
Macbrea 11-16-05, 03:45 PM	Funny, mine was monday also.....
Altaris13 11-16-05, 03:51 PM	Yeah - in your absence you missed the parade that Cat had down the main streets of Gladius heralding that he doesn't have to keep track of the previous 4000 characters NiQil has gone through (and let's not forget those under his previous name). Parade huh? That must've been quite the sight. :D
Mind Rogue 11-16-05, 03:59 PM	That reminds me... @ Cat: My birthday was on Monday! Happy birthday to me I'm almost thirty I really suck at songs So can I just have that credit for free? LOL gawd I suck at creativity....feel free to mock accordingly. ~Mocks very accordingly.~ ~Sings~ Happy Birthday, It's your birthday. Death, Destruction, and Despair, People dying everywhere, so Happy Birthday, It's your birthday... There's more, but it's pretty morbid and you probably don't want to here it.
One_Winged_Angel 11-16-05, 04:04 PM	Happy happy birthday From all of us to you! We wish it was our birthday So we could party too, Hey! :pint:
Huan 11-16-05, 04:09 PM	Heh...I normally keep 4 characters active....I try and not go over that just because I don't have the credits to burn....if I did I could easily see myself with 8-12 characters active LOL. Yeah, I could see that too. If you had Huan's supply, I shudder to think how many characters you'd have floating around... *Looks at horde (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179881)*... Wow, when did it get that high..? (out of sight, out of mind, I suppose) *Blows the dust off unused-credits* Hm, I should probably use them... for something ... *shrugs shoulders* I should open a credit-loan service or something. :P Anyway, Happy Birthday NiQil and Macbrea.
NiQil 11-16-05, 04:11 PM	*Looks at horde (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179881)*... Wow, when did it get that high..? (out of sight, out of mind, I suppose) *Blows the dust off unused-credits* Hm, I should probably use them... for something ... *shrugs shoulders* I should open a credit-loan service or something. :P Happy Birthday NiQil and MacBrea Yanno...if you wanna give me a 20-credit grant, that would be super. :D
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 04:33 PM	He said loan - not grant... Anyway - Mindrogue - you're slipping - time's up and all that Jazz as of about 35 minutes ago...
Maraxus 11-16-05, 06:41 PM	Ah, I understand the system. To prevent rematches, you move down the list untill you find a new one. I had almost feared Zassl would have to face Ashhûr again. :) So, Zassl is put into a Mass-Combat again. *Looks at his opponents* - Nice - except, if Grik is up for revenge. :)
Pitlords 11-16-05, 07:08 PM	PAIRINGS DONE Credit Changes: +9: Huan +5: Tellish +4: Caterane, KingUther +3: Usurpator, Dracazar +2: Begferdeth, Iced, Luni, Maraxus, Macbrea, Nightbanegod, Snommelp, Myrridin +1: Book5, Dr.Funk, Gonbow, Mindrogue, Pittbull, LLMadCow +0: Onewingedangel, SauroGrenom, TelinArtho, NiQil Credits for Pitlords: +4: Telin, Tellish +3: Caterane, Luni, Snommelp +2: Uther, Maraxus, Nightbanegod, Usurpator +1: Begferdeth, Book5, Dracazar, DrFunk, Gonbow, Huan, Iced, Macbrea, Mindrogue, Owa, Pittbull, Sauro Credits for Questlords: +4: TelinArtho +2: Huan, Luni, Myrridin Credits for Campaignlords: +6: Huan +3: Uther, Iced, Tellish Credits for Active PCs: -1: Iced, Uther, Sauro, Snommelp -2: Usurpator, NiQil -3: Luni, Tellish -5: Telin Credits for Questers: -1: Caterane, Iced, Mysticmonk -2: Telin, OneWingedAngel (*Mystic has no credits) Special Credits: +3: Usurpator (map/news) +2: Caterane (GM), NiQil (birthday), Dracazar (map) +1: LLMadCow (Prisonlord), Begferdeth (map), Macbrea (map), Tellish (map) -2: Telin (challenge) *Magister has no credits The most important thing this week is the beginning of the LivingGuilds System. We've worked a lot on it in the past weeks and the current state is very satisfying. I want to give special thanks to SauroGrenom for his invaluable help. Guildmasters should check the new Guild and District Traits. Both have changed today because of the new structure effects. Please read over the Rules: Guilds again to make sure you understood everything. Also, add a [Tax: 10%] tag behind each member (or less if he has one or more allies) so that you can easily check how much you gain from his fights. It is also advisable to make a list with the income each character earned so far. If you don't do it now, you'll never will. Roleplaying is allowed in any guild thread, member or not, so feel free to use it. Guilds are a new roleplaying plattform for all of you.
Snommelp 11-16-05, 07:56 PM	Trusting me with a huter match? I'm honored. Tactics have been sent. Now, off to a dress rehearsal.
Mind Rogue 11-16-05, 08:00 PM	He said loan - not grant... Anyway - Mindrogue - you're slipping - time's up and all that Jazz as of about 35 minutes ago... ya, ya, ya... I forgot to tag that on to the end when singing a stanza from the Viking Birthday Song to NiQil and Macbrea. Anyway, I've been busy solving a math problem on a bet that I could finish it by midnight, and I am proud to say that I finished 4 hours early and won a nickle. I haven't even had the chance to read the new OotS yet...
One_Winged_Angel 11-16-05, 08:10 PM	Tactics for Kailia Away! Darn. Any dropped fights I would like to call right now! I am trying to save creds for something and it's looking like I'm getting hit rather painfully. Mystic!!! Start pitlording! Keep in mind I know where you live and will be able to hunt you next week!
Luni 11-16-05, 08:31 PM	@SauroGrenom: tactics sent and are nearly identical to last weeks. @King Uther: Tactics Sent. @Mind Rogue: tactics for the anti-ranged dwarf versus an invisible flying pixie sent.
Pitlords 11-16-05, 08:31 PM	Azriel (One_Winged_Angel) vs Phase Spider: Caterane [Monster] has been added to the Roster. Caterane+1°. @Mystic: You can have that fight to pay for your Quest if you like.
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 08:44 PM	@TheMagister - when you challenged me - I assumed you had credits to spend for yourself... Next time you get to pay with a challenge of my own choosing... heh heh heh
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 08:47 PM	@Cat - Kraegin was not supposed to be paired this week, rather he was sitting out to craft: Ready Nov16 2005, Sit out to craft Adamantine Full Plate (Week 1/3) Since he's been updated with the equipment that he's crafting - I don't think it would be a good idea for him to fight...
Mal-2 11-16-05, 09:08 PM	Donak (Mal-2) vs Tan, Son of Sty (Book5): Caterane Two small problems. Donak has already fought Tan (though I don't know if that means he can't fight again). More importantly, Donak is ECL 4 this week. Unless Tan was looking to fight above his weight, I should probably be paired with another ECL 4 fighter. Hmm. Don't see any ECL 4 fighters without a match already though.
Ravashack 11-16-05, 09:19 PM	Tactics have been PMed to Luni. Edit: Oops, next time I'll email.
NiQil 11-16-05, 09:26 PM	@ Snommelp: Tactics for Caspian sent via PM
Ayrynthyn 11-16-05, 09:43 PM	quick question... I've been paired with Vladimir Callesto (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7697807), but im not sure i should be. He's ECL 4 (Rogue 2 / Ranger 2). don't get me wrong, i'll take the fight. I enjoy a good challenge, but i dont want to burn the brain cycles on the tactics if its not a legit character (ECL 4, listed in the ECL 3 league, No fights, Not found in the Black Market anywhere). Worst case maybe Huan can crack open that vault of his and sport the kid the credit to pay for the upgrade ;) so i can get the rightous arse beatin i'm anticipatin here :)
NiQil 11-16-05, 09:57 PM	@ Maraxus: Tactics for Methos sent via PM
NiQil 11-16-05, 09:59 PM	quick question... I've been paired with Vladimir Callesto (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7697807), but im not sure i should be. He's ECL 4 (Rogue 2 / Ranger 2). don't get me wrong, i'll take the fight. I enjoy a good challenge, but i dont want to burn the brain cycles on the tactics if its not a legit character (ECL 4, listed in the ECL 3 league, No fights, Not found in the Black Market anywhere). Worst case maybe Huan can crack open that vault of his and sport the kid the credit to pay for the upgrade ;) so i can get the rightous arse beatin i'm anticipatin here :) Sounds like the easy solution would be for you to fight Tan, son of Sty, and let Vladimir fight Donak, so that you both are fighting people from the same league. But you'll hafta wait for Cat to turn up to make that official. Since ya have until Friday to get tactics in, just wait until he says something about it before submitting them.
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 10:02 PM	And in cases like these - sending a PM to both Caterane and Pitlords isn't necessarily out of the question...
Book5 11-16-05, 10:04 PM	Two small problems. Donak has already fought Tan (though I don't know if that means he can't fight again). More importantly, Donak is ECL 4 this week. Unless Tan was looking to fight above his weight, I should probably be paired with another ECL 4 fighter. Hmm. Don't see any ECL 4 fighters without a match already though. HAHA! Tan'll take em... Book5 on the other hand would prefer a fight that Tan has a decent chance of winning. Hey, drop a fighter level on the little fellow and he'll "tan" donak's hide. +9 tohit with spiked chain? Anyone? Go right ahead, 5ft step back and fire your bow... I dare ya. :D
NiQil 11-16-05, 10:12 PM	@ Macbrea: Tactics for Silas sent via PM
TheMagister 11-16-05, 10:32 PM	@TheMagister - when you challenged me - I assumed you had credits to spend for yourself... Next time you get to pay with a challenge of my own choosing... heh heh heh Totally forgot it cost credits! (DUH.) I guess I'll have to pick up a fight to pay for it. I'm also kinda surprised Cat let it slide... To quote that guy in the Popeye movie: "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hamburger today..." I think this puts me at -1 credits. I wish I had time to pitlord more! TM
TheMagister 11-16-05, 10:35 PM	Dracazar's PM box is full. Sent tactics by E-mail instead. TM
Sindorin 11-16-05, 10:45 PM	Tactics for Aranor sent to Gonbow. Tactics for Va'ria (ugh... hunter battles...) sent to TelinArtho. Thanks guys for pitlording, and I will probably be sporadic for the next week or so after tomorrow. Yay for Fall Break!
TelinArtho 11-16-05, 10:47 PM	@Tellish of Ket tactics for Felan Turok sent via email. The rest will be sent tomorrow.
Snommelp 11-16-05, 11:15 PM	Tactics for Caspian and Kailia have been received. I'll run the fight Friday afternoon, Arizona time. Unless my friends kidnap me for an all-night movie marathon followed by a trip up the mountain to see the sun rise again. But what are the odds of that happening two weekends in a row, right?
TheMagister 11-16-05, 11:25 PM	@Pittbull: Tactics for Sdentch sent by PM. Man, I'd love to Pitlord this fight...it's gonna be good. TM
One_Winged_Angel 11-16-05, 11:25 PM	Tactics for Caspian and Kailia have been received. I'll run the fight Friday afternoon, Arizona time. Unless my friends kidnap me for an all-night movie marathon followed by a trip up the mountain to see the sun rise again. But what are the odds of that happening two weekends in a row, right? Depends. Do your friends know mine? If so, odds are pretty good. ;) Well, here's to hoping for 6-0! :cheer: :bounce: :cheer:
Tellish_of_Ket 11-17-05, 12:18 AM	@Tellish of Ket tactics for Felan Turok sent via email. The rest will be sent tomorrow. K, i'm still working on tactics for the All vs All. -ToK
Iced 11-17-05, 12:23 AM	I pity the poor guildmaster. :D @Begferdeth - Tactics sent via pm. It's only a matter of time before Validi's 7-0 and going for his second victory at EL5. Things are going to get real interesting real fast... Next are Tellish, Cat, and Uther's characters. And I may just be tempted into taking a swipe at Angel's Kailia. She has a power rating fit to boost mine into the top five with Cat's finest...;)
One_Winged_Angel 11-17-05, 12:30 AM	I pity the poor guildmaster. :D @Begferdeth - Tactics sent via pm. It's only a matter of time before Validi's 7-0 and going for his second victory at EL5. Things are going to get real interesting real fast... Next are Tellish, Cat, and Uther's characters. And I may just be tempted into taking a swipe at Angel's Kailia. She has a power rating fit to boost mine into the top five with Cat's finest...;) Wait until I get to level 5, then you can swipe away. ;)
NiQil 11-17-05, 12:30 AM	I pity the poor guildmaster. :D @Begferdeth - Tactics sent via pm. It's only a matter of time before Validi's 7-0 and going for his second victory at EL5. Things are going to get real interesting real fast... Next are Tellish, Cat, and Uther's characters. And I may just be tempted into taking a swipe at Angel's Kailia. She has a power rating fit to boost mine into the top five with Cat's finest...;) LOL cocky much? As for Kailia....I have first crack at that one...
One_Winged_Angel 11-17-05, 12:35 AM	LOL cocky much? As for Kailia....I have first crack at that one... ...Geez. She's not even to the best part of her build yet... It's kinda ironic: I expected her to suck at lower levels, actually. Guess I need to learn to plan more like that, eh? ;)
NiQil 11-17-05, 12:42 AM	...Geez. She's not even to the best part of her build yet... It's kinda ironic: I expected her to suck at lower levels, actually. Guess I need to learn to plan more like that, eh? ;) LOL well neither are any of my characters...my characters won't mature until around 6th level. That's when the two that are single classed will get the feats that will really help their builds, and the two that are multi-classed will both enter their prestige classes then. The funny part is that what I thought was my weakest build...Kronos...is 5-0 with a chance to hand The Harvester his first loss...a slim chance...but a chance nonetheless.
Iced 11-17-05, 12:47 AM	Someone needs to take it to the Harvester. Maybe Uther's newest "Avatar of Life" will challenge him. That would be an interesting fight... (hint hint) :D
One_Winged_Angel 11-17-05, 12:51 AM	Someone needs to take it to the Harvester. Maybe Uther's newest "Avatar of Life" will challenge him. That would be an interesting fight... (hint hint) :D Once I can ammass enough creds, I have a character that is most definatly going to challange Harvy. Provided it survives one round, it has a fair chance of victory.
Snommelp 11-17-05, 01:01 AM	Any of my characters would take on the Harvester, but I wanna save my credits for a couple of monstrous builds, so no challenges at this point.
King Uther 11-17-05, 01:15 AM	The Harvester wouldn't accept the fight. And, in all fairness, technically they are on the same side. A different side of the same coin, so to speak. Ajora is an enemy of Balbanes, actually. But that story is for a different time. Plus, if Ajora won initiative(with a +10), the fight would be over instantly. Can your EL4 character survive 1d8+3+11d6? Average damage is 46. Plus you are flat-footed, barring Uncanny Dodge.
King Uther 11-17-05, 01:19 AM	Also, I am going on vacation starting Friday. I will be gone from Nov 18th-27th. All fights will be up tomorrow night/Friday morning before I leave for Phoenix, AZ. My guild will be taken over by Emrys_Donovan for the time being. All tactics will be sent tomorrow as well. Should be some good fights, especially the Hagrid fight. I'm not so confident about winning the Hunter fight with my assassin mage.
SauroGrenom 11-17-05, 01:27 AM	Pitlords, I don't know if this is generally cosidered enough reason to ask for a reassignment, but I just noticed that Raskos is fighting against another PSI Consortium member. As Guildmaster I would prefer that my guildmembers not fight eachoter very often especially in the beginning. Both Raskos and Validi have good records in the Arena, and it would be a shame to deny the guild the income of two victories because one of the two has to loose. SauroGrenom
Cerebus13 11-17-05, 01:34 AM	The Harvester wouldn't accept the fight. And, in all fairness, technically they are on the same side. A different side of the same coin, so to speak. Ajora is an enemy of Balbanes, actually. But that story is for a different time. Plus, if Ajora won initiative(with a +10), the fight would be over instantly. Can your EL4 character survive 1d8+3+11d6? Average damage is 46. Plus you are flat-footed, barring Uncanny Dodge.Dissolving Weapon is not a valid prebuff for regular Arrows by the way. You'd have to put the power onto your bow alone if you wanted it. Power Storing on arrows seems like an interesting, albiet expensive, method of getting powers onto arrows that are not normally allowed however.
NiQil 11-17-05, 01:46 AM	Dissolving Weapon is not a valid prebuff for regular Arrows by the way. You'd have to put the power onto your bow alone if you wanted it. Power Storing on arrows seems like an interesting, albiet expensive, method of getting powers onto arrows that are not normally allowed however. This was addressed in the Prison thread...powerstoring is not an enhancement available for ranged weapons....those arrows are currently in violation.
Vathelokai 11-17-05, 02:04 AM	This was addressed in the Prison thread...powerstoring is not an enhancement available for ranged weapons....those arrows are currently in violation. I asked in the tavern, but why not here too? Can you pay credits to get melee enhancements put on ranged weapons? Could you pay 2/5/10/15 credits to get powerstoring arrows?
Usurpator 11-17-05, 02:12 AM	Also, I am going on vacation starting Friday. I will be gone from Nov 18th-27th. All fights will be up tomorrow night/Friday morning before I leave for Phoenix, AZ. My guild will be taken over by Emrys_Donovan for the time being. All tactics will be sent tomorrow as well. Should be some good fights, especially the Hagrid fight. I'm not so confident about winning the Hunter fight with my assassin mage. My initial estimation is that both Kitaya and Haizan will kill their opponents, and then it's up for grabs who the final winner will be. ;)
Usurpator 11-17-05, 02:20 AM	@Luni, King Uther I haven't seen any replies from both of you about the Balbanes vs. Tezca fight, but I guess you must have seen my posts. As it stands, Tezca has won, and considering the explanations given I think he would only be more likely to win after more edits. I PM'ed Cat asking him to delay assigning a victory or loss until I got a definitive answer from Luni about what he/she (your name and avatar makes you a she) wanted to do with the fight, since I was ok with waiting for it and King Uther was still in disagreement with the outcome and I didn't see him on the boards before next week's pairings. Cat now assigned a rematch (and docked me credit for it), which I do not desire. What I ask from you is: 1. Luni: are you content with the fight as it is or do you want to make extra edits? 2. King Uther: what things would you like adressed if Luni is still willing to edit someting? (especially since you are leaving friday)
Vathelokai 11-17-05, 02:25 AM	@Iced concerning Saffron Brass vs. Vampire Fighter lv 5. I don't have a MM, so I do not have a copy of the default vampire fighter. Could you provide a description, either by PM or intro post in the battles thread, that details equipment and feats? I might have to surrender, since it has fast healing 5, and I have to crit/sneak attack to do more damage then that. But then it might be unequiped to handle me as well... we'll see. And that brings me to another point. Vamp fighter 5 ... ECL 13, CR 7 Wyrmling rogue 1 ...ECL 7, CR 4 Does anyone else see a problem with this? I seem to be outclassed. If I win to I get the prize for fighting a 13 lv character? That's like 15,000 xp/gp! But only 866 if I loose. I don't want it 'fixed' or anything (I accept the fight, and will make an honest effort if possible), but I think we should look at the decision to base monster fights off of CR when the regular fights are based off ECL. I know that Saffron (Brass Dragon Wyrmling Rogue 1) is a crazy exception to most of the arena conventions, but if there is some spare time to consider it, then I'd love to hear thoughts about it. You say it dosn't have a ranged weapon? Well then, I'll hover 10 ft. over its head and breath fire on it until morning! :P
Dracazar 11-17-05, 04:21 AM	Dracazar's PM box is full. Sent tactics by E-mail instead. TM Sorry for the box full. Fixed now.
TheMagister 11-17-05, 04:37 AM	Sorry for the box full. Fixed now. Cool beans, no problem. Will send tactics by PM, too, then. TM
Pittbull 11-17-05, 05:01 AM	Plus, if Ajora won initiative(with a +10), the fight would be over instantly. Can your EL4 character survive 1d8+3+11d6? Average damage is 46. Plus you are flat-footed, barring Uncanny Dodge. Don't forget, that you need to hit him first.
Ravashack 11-17-05, 06:39 AM	The Harvester wouldn't accept the fight. And, in all fairness, technically they are on the same side. A different side of the same coin, so to speak. Ajora is an enemy of Balbanes, actually. But that story is for a different time. Plus, if Ajora won initiative(with a +10), the fight would be over instantly. Can your EL4 character survive 1d8+3+11d6? Average damage is 46. Plus you are flat-footed, barring Uncanny Dodge. How are you getting +11d6? You're only allowed to spend 2 PP during the fight with 7 PP total.
Pitlords 11-17-05, 07:03 AM	The following changes have been made on the roster: Kraegin (TelinArtho) crafts an adamantine fullplate (16500 gp) Talik the Svelt (Ayrynthyn) vs Tan, Son of Sty (Book5): Tellish of Ket Anya (Mind Rogue) vs Kronos (NiQil) vs Kracknol (SauroGrenom): Usurpator [All vs All] Donak (Mal-2) vs The Harvester (Caterane): Huan Ariel Reborn (Luni) vs Krunch (Tellish of Ket): TelinArtho Dameon Leonne (Huan) vs Va'ria (Sindorin): Luni Merman (Caterane) vs 2 Hell Cats: Tellish of Ket [Monster] Vladimir (Emrys Donovan) cannot fight because Emrys Donovan has no credits to enter him at ECL 4. Instead, the ECL 4 team fight will be changed to a 3 player All vs All, and one of the participants (Harvester (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=189806)) will be paired against him. I didn't have the time to ready Merman until now hence the late pairing for him. @Emrys: I'll remove Vladimir until you can pay the credits for him. Please write me a PM when you want to re-enter him. @Sauro: I already sit till 1-2 AM my time. To prevent members from the same guild from being paired against each other, I'd have to check every character single-handly again. I am constantly trying to find ways on how to speed up the pairings process. If you have an idea, I'll think about it. @Vathelokai: I use the tables on DMG p79-82 to roll monster fights. First of all, any creature that you fight once - like every arena fight - uses CR, and never ECL. Your character however, always uses his ECL. That's ECL 7 vs CR 7; 7 vs 7. Sounds equal to me ;) @Usurpator, King, Luni: I asked Luni to make a decision about the fight, be it to assign a win to one of them, or request a rerun. She chose the latter and that's why it is on the roster again. Usurpator, you gain 1° back.
Vathelokai 11-17-05, 07:24 AM	@Vathelokai: I use the tables on DMG p79-82 to roll monster fights. First of all, any creature that you fight once - like every arena fight - uses CR, and never ECL. Your character however, always uses his ECL. That's ECL 7 vs CR 7; 7 vs 7. Sounds equal to me ;) I'm not saying its not equal...I'm not saying it dosn't follow the rules... Vamp fighter 5 ... ECL 13, CR 7 Wyrmling rogue 1 ...ECL 7, CR 4 Just saying that the rules look a bit broken in this specific instance. No worries though; the Vamp will get what's comming to him (i.e. my head on a pike ;) )
Pitlords 11-17-05, 07:33 AM	@Vath: Again, player characters ALWAYS use the ECL to determine the strength of their encounter. The encounter ALWAYS uses the CR. That's why it's absolutely correct to fight a lvl 5 vamp with an ECL 7 PC.
waywreth 11-17-05, 08:53 AM	@Maraxus - Tactics for Casgish Sent @TelinArtho - Tactics for Dargain (4-way) sent
Huan 11-17-05, 09:01 AM	@All my players My PM box is nearing full at the moment, and I am not sure when I'll get around to cleaning it. Just in case, email me at oni.black.mage@gmail.com with tactics/RP and such. Thanks.
NiQil 11-17-05, 10:04 AM	@Vath: Again, player characters ALWAYS use the ECL to determine the strength of their encounter. The encounter ALWAYS uses the CR. That's why it's absolutely correct to fight a lvl 5 vamp with an ECL 7 PC. Umm....not to rain on yer parade here Cat....but there's an error in your logic here. A CR creature is designed to be a challenge for a party of FOUR...not a one on one encounter. CR's have always been balanced against a party of four, because that is the iconic D&D party (warrior, mage, sneak, healer). So if you are basing monster fights off of CR.....then they are most likely coming out overpowered. My take on it anyway.
Altaris13 11-17-05, 10:14 AM	@NiQil & Vath: Do you recall a similar circumstance? Aeryn was put up against a Hound Archon when he was lvl 3. That was CR3/ECL3 vs a CR4/ECL9. It sucks balls, but Cat has done this from the beginning. I tried the same logic then, but it didn't work. On a side note: Tactics sent to Dr. Funk for Mini vs Leif
Caterane 11-17-05, 10:14 AM	Since 90% of the Monster fights end in victory, I think adding 3 additional PCs of the same level and put all 4 up against that monster, we could just delete monster fights from the game. Player Characters in real campaigns have no access to unlimited ressources, nor can they spend their money on exactly the item they need. Finally, the 4 ECL-X vs CR-X is supposed to be 1 of 3 fights a day.
King Uther 11-17-05, 10:18 AM	@Anyone who keeps saying it is a violation for my power-storing arrows: Look at the blackmarket. I paid credits for them. It isn't a violation if the GM allows it.
Pittbull 11-17-05, 10:18 AM	@Cat: Hagrid'S tactic is sent. @Huan: Starting Barthleby's now.....
TelinArtho 11-17-05, 10:30 AM	@Anyone who keeps saying it is a violation for my power-storing arrows: Look at the blackmarket. I paid credits for them. It isn't a violation if the GM allows it. They are a violation - just because the GM didn't fully check the rules - doesn't mean it isn't. If you want them - you'll need custom item approval for each one @ 15 credits each. Regardless - it is an open violation - so you can't use them in your fight.
TelinArtho 11-17-05, 10:49 AM	Tactics received for Dargain and Hennan. Also received tactics for Va'ria - but that fight has been changed - so Sindorin you should take another look at the fight roster. @Cat/Pitlords - I would appreciate it if you made updates to the Battles thread as well, since Kraegin isn't listed as crafting there, and that's the post I have to link to. @King Uther - tactics for Anakala's mq sent.
Stormwind 11-17-05, 10:55 AM	@TelinArtho - Tactics sent for Cyra Val [4-way All vs. All]
Sunwolf 11-17-05, 10:58 AM	@Dr. Funk Tactics for Leif sent by PM
Macbrea 11-17-05, 11:07 AM	Tactics sent for Mektos...
TelinArtho 11-17-05, 11:11 AM	@Luni - tactics for Sir Valkin sent via PM. @ToK - bet you weren't planning on running into someone else with allies eh?
Snommelp 11-17-05, 11:14 AM	Tactics sent for Mektos... Got 'em. Just need three more sets to run the hunter fight.
Altaris13 11-17-05, 11:33 AM	@Dr. Funk Tactics for Leif sent by PM Time for a beatin'! :D And good luck to you. May the best freak win. :cool:
TelinArtho 11-17-05, 11:39 AM	@Pittbull - tactics for Aquin sent. @TheMagister - bring it...
NiQil 11-17-05, 11:51 AM	Sheesh...go to bed workin on how to take down the Harvester...wake up having to plot against the person I was working with. @ Usurpator: Tactics for Kronos sent via PM.
Ravashack 11-17-05, 11:58 AM	@Anyone who keeps saying it is a violation for my power-storing arrows: Look at the blackmarket. I paid credits for them. It isn't a violation if the GM allows it. Even if it wasn't a violation, how are you getting +11d6? :P You are only allowed to use up to 5PP on those, which coupled with 2 PP and Focus == 9d6. You haven't paid for any services on those, which means you really can only use 3PP on them (your personal manifester cap), which brings the total down to 7d6. In addition, Black Market stuff always is supposed to have a link to the OKing purchase post, which you don't do, which makes it a violation anyway. Edit: King Uther, you need to clear out your PM box please. But FYI, #1 in your PM wears off after 1 round, so you couldn't do that.
Dracazar 11-17-05, 11:58 AM	Asha (Dracazar) vs Haizan (King Uther) vs Mektos (Macbrea) vs Kitaya (Usurpator): Snommelp [Hunter] http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Karten/CavernMap.gif Hunter Fights use this map?
Snommelp 11-17-05, 12:03 PM	http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Karten/CavernMap.gif Hunter Fights use this map? Yup. It's my first time running on that map, but it shouldn't be too different from running normal fights, right? Be sure to read up on the dimensions of the map; different maps have different ceiling heights.
NiQil 11-17-05, 12:12 PM	@ Usurpator: Addendum to Kronos tactics sent....planned tactics for the wrong arena LOL.
Usurpator 11-17-05, 12:13 PM	Even if it wasn't a violation, how are you getting +11d6? :P You are only allowed to use up to 5PP on those, which coupled with 2 PP and Focus == 9d6. You haven't paid for any services on those, which means you really can only use 3PP on them (your personal manifester cap), which brings the total down to 7d6. . I thought he wanted to combine it with Dissolving Weapon for 7d6+4d6 = 11d6, but can't see Dissolving Weapon on his sheet. Also, his Light Warhorse is still illegal, not having the required Dex for fleet of foot.... Also, I am not seeing that anything is stored in those arrows as a prebuff, so they are basically arrows +1 unless Ajora stores something in them during the fight, which effectively replaces points that would have otherwise gone into the Deep Crystal, and thus is ineffective. It seems like the sheet is only half-finished.
Pittbull 11-17-05, 12:39 PM	@Huan: Tactic has been sent via E-Mail. Thank you.
Luni 11-17-05, 01:55 PM	Sir Valkin vs Maven is up Here: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7778176&postcount=651) It is such a nail biter.
NiQil 11-17-05, 01:56 PM	Sir Valkin vs Maven is up Here: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7778176&postcount=651) It is such a nail biter. I'll bet it took you longer to post the fight than it did to run the fight LOL
Ravashack 11-17-05, 02:00 PM	I thought he wanted to combine it with Dissolving Weapon for 7d6+4d6 = 11d6, but can't see Dissolving Weapon on his sheet. Also, his Light Warhorse is still illegal, not having the required Dex for fleet of foot.... Also, I am not seeing that anything is stored in those arrows as a prebuff, so they are basically arrows +1 unless Ajora stores something in them during the fight, which effectively replaces points that would have otherwise gone into the Deep Crystal, and thus is ineffective. It seems like the sheet is only half-finished. Dissolving Weapon works just like Dissolving Touch, except that his weapon is charged with acid until he makes a successful attack. However, since it's just like Dissolving Touch, the acid denatures after 1 round. His weapon would still be charged with it, but it'd do no damage if he couldn't hit his target with it in under a round.
Luni 11-17-05, 02:04 PM	Dissolving Weapon works just like Dissolving Touch, except that his weapon is charged with acid until he makes a successful attack. However, since it's just like Dissolving Touch, the acid denatures after 1 round. His weapon would still be charged with it, but it'd do no damage if he couldn't hit his target with it in under a round. I think the power means that after you hit, the creature doesn't take damage every round from the acid. A 1 round duration power actually ends just before your next initiative count.
Ravashack 11-17-05, 02:06 PM	I think the power means that after you hit, the creature doesn't take damage every round from the acid. A 1 round duration power actually ends just before your next initiative count. It's an instantaneous duration power.
Luni 11-17-05, 02:11 PM	@Nightbanegod: Tactics sent. I hope you don't pull your hair out on the complexity of them.
NiQil 11-17-05, 02:11 PM	It's an instantaneous duration power. True, but so is Dissolving Weapon. I think Luni is correct, and here is why: Acid you secrete denatures 1 round after use. It seems to be saying that it lasts until used, meaning that it stays on your claws, etc until you hit with it. I think that it should be able to be prebuffed like Dissolving Weapon....I just think we have been using it incorrectly all this time.
Mal-2 11-17-05, 02:11 PM	Dissolving Weapon works just like Dissolving Touch, except that his weapon is charged with acid until he makes a successful attack. However, since it's just like Dissolving Touch, the acid denatures after 1 round. If that's what the SRD said, you'd be right. Here's the text from Dissolving Touch: Your touch, claw, or bite is corrosive, and sizzling moisture visibly oozes from your natural weapon or hand. You deal 4d6 points of acid damage to any creature or object you touch with your successful melee touch attack. Acid you secrete denatures 1 round after use, losing all efficacy and ability to deal damage. You are immune to your own acid. Emphasis mine. The acid doesn't denature after one round. It denatures one round after use. That seems to be a big difference to me.
Ravashack 11-17-05, 02:37 PM	Hmmm, that's a good point. I wonder what the ramifications of prebuffing that would be though. I read the "after use" to mean after use of the power to be honest.
NiQil 11-17-05, 02:39 PM	Hmmm, that's a good point. I wonder what the ramifications of prebuffing that would be though. Should be the same as Dissolving weapon....like I said I just think no one ever caught that part of the power before, so no one was using it like it was designed (which is to be the same as dissolving weapon, but for natural attacks). Kinda makes psychic warrior/monks look lots more fearsome now. I think most people read it the way you did....that it is after the use of the power....when in fact it should be after the use of the acid, since that is what that sentence says. That is why the power seemed so useless up to this point....spend the PP to get one round of acid on yer claw that goes away after one round regardless of whether it's used? If it is read as it should be...that the acid goes away one round after the acid is used (making it identical to dissolving weapon in effect, just on different weapons), then the power makes much more sense.
Huan 11-17-05, 02:48 PM	Ah, good thing Sindorin told me ... I thought I was still fighting Kraegin, but apparently my new opponent is Va'ria. Hm.
One_Winged_Angel 11-17-05, 02:56 PM	Delete
NiQil 11-17-05, 02:59 PM	I'm almost 100% sure I've asked this before, but does a Natural attack qualify for Improved Unarmed Strike as far as feats go? EX: A lizardfolk who wants to take Deflect Arrows. We've always said that natural weapons allow a character to take Improved Grapple without requiring Improved Unarmed Strike first. I'm no Elder, but if we are are allowing natural weapons to meet prereq's for one feat that requires IUS, I don't see any reason that we shouldn't allow it for all feats that require IUS.
Sunwolf 11-17-05, 03:03 PM	@Tok Tactics for Brilf in All vs all fight send by PM in 2 parts.
Emrys Donovan 11-17-05, 04:24 PM	quick question... I've been paired with Vladimir Callesto (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7697807), but im not sure i should be. He's ECL 4 (Rogue 2 / Ranger 2). don't get me wrong, i'll take the fight. I enjoy a good challenge, but i dont want to burn the brain cycles on the tactics if its not a legit character (ECL 4, listed in the ECL 3 league, No fights, Not found in the Black Market anywhere). Worst case maybe Huan can crack open that vault of his and sport the kid the credit to pay for the upgrade ;) so i can get the rightous arse beatin i'm anticipatin here :) Vladimir (Emrys Donovan) cannot fight because Emrys Donovan has no credits to enter him at ECL 4. Instead, the ECL 4 team fight will be changed to a 3 player All vs All, and one of the participants (Harvester (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=189806)) will be paired against him. I didn't have the time to ready Merman until now hence the late pairing for him. @Emrys: I'll remove Vladimir until you can pay the credits for him. Please write me a PM when you want to re-enter him. Oops, lol, I meant to put that onto another character of mine, not Vladimir.
King Uther 11-17-05, 04:29 PM	Tactics for Virgo have been sent via email. Good luck to my opponent.
Usurpator 11-17-05, 04:45 PM	@Snommelp Tactics for Kitaya in the Hunter fight sent.
King Uther 11-17-05, 04:50 PM	Tactics for Ajora the Light have been sent to Cat via email.
Ayrynthyn 11-17-05, 04:52 PM	@Tellish_of_Ket - Tactics sent for Talik vs Tan via PM.
King Uther 11-17-05, 05:25 PM	Tactics for Haizan, Imperial Assassin sent via PM. Should be a good one to write down in my win column.
Usurpator 11-17-05, 05:41 PM	@Dracazar Tactics for Maeril sent via e-mail
Usurpator 11-17-05, 05:44 PM	@my gladiators All tactics for the FFA received. I know, no Harvester.... Will most probably be running the battle sometime on saturday.
Snommelp 11-17-05, 05:49 PM	I have almost enough tactics for the Hunter fight. If I get the tactics by Saturday noon, you can look for the fight Saturday evening.
NiQil 11-17-05, 05:51 PM	@my gladiators All tactics for the FFA received. I know, no Harvester.... Will most probably be running the battle sometime on saturday. Meh....he just bailed out of it to save his pristine record LOL
Begferdeth 11-17-05, 06:17 PM	Ive got all the tactics for my fight in... Ill start it up sometime tomorrow or Saturday.
TheMagister 11-17-05, 06:53 PM	@Pittbull - tactics for Aquin sent. @TheMagister - bring it... It's gonna be a good one, I think, no matter how it turns out. ... Good in the "oops I broke his wittle head" kinda way. TM
Huan 11-17-05, 07:08 PM	We've always said that natural weapons allow a character to take Improved Grapple without requiring Improved Unarmed Strike first. I'm no Elder, but if we are are allowing natural weapons to meet prereq's for one feat that requires IUS, I don't see any reason that we shouldn't allow it for all feats that require IUS. That's correct. You may substitute your natural weapons for Imp Unarmed Strike here. (Its not like there are that many feats that require it anyway -- It's only Defelect Arrows, Imp. Grapple, Snatch Arrows, and Stunning Fist. :P )
Maraxus 11-17-05, 07:26 PM	So Taktics for my two little gladiators, Zassle and Noko are out (to Mind Rogue and nightbanegod). I hope, they still look good, when I wake up tomorrow. Good Night. ;)
Book5 11-17-05, 08:52 PM	That's correct. You may substitute your natural attack for Imp Unarmed Strike here. (Its not like there are that many feats that require it anyway -- It's only Defelect Arrows, Imp. Grapple, Snatch Arrows, and Stunning Fist. :P ) If you are a ranger (melee path) you can take improved two weapon fighting - but cannot use it when you are wearing heavy armor. Can I take deflect arrows and only use it when I have guantlets? Same logic...
MystErikEry 11-17-05, 08:56 PM	Gauntlets are weapons, not natural weapons...
King Uther 11-17-05, 09:08 PM	@ Iced I am listed as doing a MQ for you, but since I am going on vacation in about 20 hours, it will have to be done soon. I am not even sure what you want exactly.
King Uther 11-17-05, 09:23 PM	Anakala gains a friend (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7781975&postcount=652) is up.
King Uther 11-17-05, 09:44 PM	Talari befriends a moose (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7782148&postcount=653) is up. Almost a total massacre.
Sindorin 11-18-05, 12:14 AM	Ah, good thing Sindorin told me ... I thought I was still fighting Kraegin, but apparently my new opponent is Va'ria. Hm. Yeah, I was quite surprised (and a little disappointed) that I wouldn't get to fight two opponents. I sat there for a good half hour writing tactics for Va'ria against Ariel and Krunch and then sent them to TelinArtho. I really think Va'ria had a good chance of taking both of them down, the way I had it set up... but it will have to wait for another day. One set of good tactics down the drain. Tactics for Va'ria against her new opponent have been sent to Luni.
Sindorin 11-18-05, 12:18 AM	Heh, I imagine later on when Maven's power rating goes around 400 that she'll really wish she didn't forfeit all of those matches now that we have the reputation system coming into play. That is, if she has any ambition to obtain a leadership cohort...
Tellish_of_Ket 11-18-05, 12:51 AM	Heh, I imagine later on when Maven's power rating goes around 400 that she'll really wish she didn't forfeit all of those matches now that we have the reputation system coming into play. That is, if she has any ambition to obtain a leadership cohort... Uhm, with +19 diplomacy at only ECL 4, I hardly doubt this will affect her ally in the least. ;) -ToK
TelinArtho 11-18-05, 09:44 AM	I've received tactics for all players in the 4-person ECL3 fight. I've received tactics for Krunch I have not received tactics for Ariel (Luni). Once I get a chance, I'll be running the 4-person fight today. Good luck.
Huan 11-18-05, 10:04 AM	@Pittbull No, I did not know Huan was the chinese province where the bird-influenca affected the 3 humans. Huh, how about that? @Luni You'll get Dameon's tactics tonight, thank you for your patience. @Gonbow, Caterane, Pittbull Tactics received, thank you all.
Pittbull 11-18-05, 10:18 AM	@Huan: It was big in our news. People are frightened about a pandemia. @My gladiators: Tactics have been received, I run the fight tomorrow.
Macbrea 11-18-05, 10:42 AM	Lortavos (Gonbow) vs Silas (NiQil): Macbrea Have tactics from NiQil for Silas, I still need tactics from Gonbow for Lortavos.
King Uther 11-18-05, 11:40 AM	The Gatekeeper vs the demons (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7785608&postcount=654) is up. Iced, enjoy that one.
Mal-2 11-18-05, 11:46 AM	@Huan: Tactics for Donak vs. Harvey sent. @Caterane: Half-giant grapplers are scary, especially when they have access to the full range of expendable items (arcane and divine scrolls plus powerstones)!
TelinArtho 11-18-05, 01:22 PM	All vs All (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7786269) fight is up. All things considered, this was a pretty straightforward fight. Let me know if there are any problems with the fight. /d
Gonbow 11-18-05, 01:25 PM	Lortavos (Gonbow) vs Silas (NiQil): Macbrea Have tactics from NiQil for Silas, I still need tactics from Gonbow for Lortavos. Sending now.
waywreth 11-18-05, 01:27 PM	All vs All (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7786269) fight is up. All things considered, this was a pretty straightforward fight. Let me know if there are any problems with the fight. /d Yeah I got a problem... Dargain sucked! Time to scrap another gladiator. Thanks for running it.
NiQil 11-18-05, 01:33 PM	All vs All (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7786269) fight is up. All things considered, this was a pretty straightforward fight. Let me know if there are any problems with the fight. /d This isn't fight affecting...just thought I would mention it.... In round 6, you have someone listed with Reflex save 9!, autofail. You can't autofail saves. Only attack rolls. Just thought I would mention it for the future.
Usurpator 11-18-05, 01:37 PM	This isn't fight affecting...just thought I would mention it.... In round 6, you have someone listed with Reflex save 9!, autofail. You can't autofail saves. Only attack rolls. Just thought I would mention it for the future. From the SRD: Automatic Failures and Successes: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on a saving throw is always a failure (and may cause damage to exposed items; see Items Surviving after a Saving Throw). A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a success. Just thought to mention it for the future ;)
NiQil 11-18-05, 01:41 PM	From the SRD: Automatic Failures and Successes: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on a saving throw is always a failure (and may cause damage to exposed items; see Items Surviving after a Saving Throw). A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a success. Just thought to mention it for the future ;) Last I heard, that was a variant rule. Can you point me to where you read that so I can brush up on it? Edit: Nevermind...I found it...I'll be damned. Learn something new every day.
Altaris13 11-18-05, 01:44 PM	This isn't fight affecting...just thought I would mention it.... In round 6, you have someone listed with Reflex save 9!, autofail. You can't autofail saves. Only attack rolls. Just thought I would mention it for the future. No, saves & attack rolls are the only things you autofail. Ability & skill checks do not have autofail or autosuccess.
Tellish_of_Ket 11-18-05, 02:24 PM	Last I heard, that was a variant rule. Can you point me to where you read that so I can brush up on it? Edit: Nevermind...I found it...I'll be damned. Learn something new every day. Actually, the only thing that is missing (and not fight affecting) is when you roll a nat 1! vs an energy dmg save, an item you are wearing is destroyed. But no worries, i'm quite happy with the results...:D -ToK
Stormwind 11-18-05, 03:12 PM	All vs All (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7786269) fight is up. All things considered, this was a pretty straightforward fight. Let me know if there are any problems with the fight. /d One detail: In round 5 Cyra is attacked by two characters (Bastion & Hennan) and her tactics state that if she is targetted by multiple opponents then she should hide, tumbling past opponents if necessary. Thus I think that her move for round 6 should be to move to cover and hide, perhaps (8,6)? Was the prebuff thing with pyschic strike ruled on somewhere? I was just wondering because the way I read it, it stays on the mindblade until used, even is the blade is thrown, misses and dissolves, it is then on the next blade created. (Not a big thing - I just want to know for future tactics)
TelinArtho 11-18-05, 03:27 PM	The only thing is - there was no place that you could hide from both players - at (8,6) - Bastion would still have been able to hit you with a called lightning bolt - and for that matter - Hennan could have taken a move to attack you. Had you been able to get cover from Bastion, you still would've been subject to a call lightning - since Bastion would have moved out looking for a target if none had presented itself - and with 160ft of movement from his eagle (more if he dropped in elevation at all...), there was no way you could have avoided that round of attacks.
TelinArtho 11-18-05, 03:29 PM	Was the prebuff thing with pyschic strike ruled on somewhere? I was just wondering because the way I read it, it stays on the mindblade until used, even is the blade is thrown, misses and dissolves, it is then on the next blade created. (Not a big thing - I just want to know for future tactics) Hmmm - that would seem to be true. I know you can prebuff with it - but I assumed you could only have it on if you had a mindblade manifested. If it is allowed, the damage would have been used on the first hit with the mindblade - which was against the beetle (which died in that hit anyway). /d
Snommelp 11-18-05, 03:32 PM	Well run, Telin. I thought for a second I had a complaint, but after looking at the map more closely I realized I had nothing. I just need to get used to that map's coordinate system.
Stormwind 11-18-05, 03:46 PM	The only thing is - there was no place that you could hide from both players - at (8,6) - Bastion would still have been able to hit you with a called lightning bolt - and for that matter - Hennan could have taken a move to attack you. Had you been able to get cover from Bastion, you still would've been subject to a call lightning - since Bastion would have moved out looking for a target if none had presented itself - and with 160ft of movement from his eagle (more if he dropped in elevation at all...), there was no way you could have avoided that round of attacks. True, I hadn't taken Bastions movement into account and thus any changes are simply minor variations. Oh well, It was still a great fight :D Thanks again
Tellish_of_Ket 11-18-05, 04:07 PM	None can escape Nature's Fury!! Good fight guys, i was a little worried at first. Though there was gonna be a flurry of magic missiles flying around to take out my eagle. -ToK
Book5 11-18-05, 06:37 PM	Tan Tactics sent PM @vath & Sauro - tactics recieved Gauntlets are weapons, not natural weapons... and natural weapons are not improved unarmed strike. thusly by the logic of the house rule the statement isnt "you need improved unarmed strike" or "you need a natural weapon" its "You need to deal lethal damage with your hands" Gauntlets let you deal leathal damage with your hands. By my understanding of how those recs stack onto each other - If you allow natural weapons to serve the imp unarmed for deflect arrows - then you should allow someone to use guantlets to achieve the same results... and creating a situation where they can only gain the benifit of the feat when they are properly equipped. Similarly you can take flyby attack if you have a way to fly indeffinitly (whether its natural or not).
Ribking 11-18-05, 06:42 PM	@Gonbow - Tactics sent for Greefe.
Snommelp 11-18-05, 06:48 PM	and natural weapons are not improved unarmed strike. thusly by the logic of the house rule the statement isnt "you need improved unarmed strike" or "you need a natural weapon" its "You need to deal lethal damage with your hands" Gauntlets let you deal leathal damage with your hands. By my understanding of how those recs stack onto each other - If you allow natural weapons to serve the imp unarmed for deflect arrows - then you should allow someone to use guantlets to achieve the same results... and creating a situation where they can only gain the benifit of the feat when they are properly equipped. Similarly you can take flyby attack if you have a way to fly indeffinitly (whether its natural or not).It's not a houserule. There are monsters in the Monster Manual who have feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, and they don't have that, but they have natural weapons. Natural weapons are therefore a prerequisite. Dealing damage with a manufactured weapon (which a gauntlet is) is not.
Mal-2 11-18-05, 07:07 PM	It's not a houserule. There are monsters in the Monster Manual who have feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, and they don't have that, but they have natural weapons. Natural weapons are therefore a prerequisite. Dealing damage with a manufactured weapon (which a gauntlet is) is not. Oddly, a gauntlet isn't treated as a manufactured weapon. It's listed under the 'Unarmed Attacks' section in the SRD, just like Unarmed Strike is. A gauntlet is a piece of equipment that has the special property of making your normal unarmed strikes do leathal damage. I don't think that really makes any difference for the rules under discussion, because I think Natural Attacks are different from Unarmed Stikes.
Book5 11-18-05, 07:10 PM	It's not a houserule. There are monsters in the Monster Manual who have feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, and they don't have that, but they have natural weapons. Natural weapons are therefore a prerequisite. Dealing damage with a manufactured weapon (which a gauntlet is) is not. save me a second ... which ones?
Mal-2 11-18-05, 07:23 PM	save me a second ... which ones? I took a look through the SRD and came across two examples: The Bebilith (a Demon) has Improved Grapple, as does a Barbed Devil (Hamatula). I didn't see anything with Deflect Arrows, Stunning Fist or Snatch Arrows, which are the other SRD feats that require Improved Unarmed Strike.
Snommelp 11-18-05, 07:38 PM	I was regurgitating information used by GM and elders in a past argument, so I don't know which monsters. Mal seems to have found a couple, though, so it would seem that the argument is correct.
TelinArtho 11-18-05, 09:50 PM	I have got to give credit to both Luni and Tellish for the remaining fight I have this week. Both of you have come up with great tactics to overcome the other - but in the end you have created a situation where no matter what I do, I am going against at least one of your tactics. Bear this in mind when the fight is finished and finally posted - though I suspect it will be a while yet before that happens... /d
Huan 11-18-05, 10:09 PM	@Mal-2 Tactics received, thank you. @Luni Tactics for Dameon sent.
Book5 11-18-05, 10:54 PM	I took a look through the SRD and came across two examples: The Bebilith (a Demon) has Improved Grapple, as does a Barbed Devil (Hamatula). I didn't see anything with Deflect Arrows, Stunning Fist or Snatch Arrows, which are the other SRD feats that require Improved Unarmed Strike. Allow me to restate and clarify this - There are TWO and only TWO monsters in the SRD (Epic & Psionic included) that have Improved grapple. One demon and one devil. There are NO monsters in the SRD (Epic and Psionics unincluded - but I do have the gall to say that "they aint in there either" without looking) with deflect arrows, stunning fist, or snatch arrow. The simple fact that a monster has a feat w/out the prerequisites does not naturally lead to the statment that "natural weapons" are equivalent to unarmed strike. The only proper logical conclusion you can draw from that is - bebliths and barbed devils can take improved grapple. Nothing else is implied. If you gp ahead and take that leap - you might as well land it in logic. Otherwise stick to RAW guns and say what is the case, not what you want to be the case (Im refering to whomever came up with this ruling in the first place). RAW says Improved Unarmed Strike is Improved Unarmed Strike - with 2 exceptions. If I wasnt getting ready to leave this building (and I may still do this tomarrow) I would go searching through the monsters for others that have feats w/out requisites. Make a list, check it twice - and see if there are any other feats we can start subbing with special abilities. This of course may have already been done - but not by me.
TelinArtho 11-19-05, 12:07 AM	Ariel vs Krunch (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7790349)
One_Winged_Angel 11-19-05, 01:36 AM	Allow me to restate and clarify this - There are TWO and only TWO monsters in the SRD (Epic & Psionic included) that have Improved grapple. One demon and one devil. There are NO monsters in the SRD (Epic and Psionics unincluded - but I do have the gall to say that "they aint in there either" without looking) with deflect arrows, stunning fist, or snatch arrow. The simple fact that a monster has a feat w/out the prerequisites does not naturally lead to the statment that "natural weapons" are equivalent to unarmed strike. The only proper logical conclusion you can draw from that is - bebliths and barbed devils can take improved grapple. Nothing else is implied. If you gp ahead and take that leap - you might as well land it in logic. Otherwise stick to RAW guns and say what is the case, not what you want to be the case (Im refering to whomever came up with this ruling in the first place). RAW says Improved Unarmed Strike is Improved Unarmed Strike - with 2 exceptions. If I wasnt getting ready to leave this building (and I may still do this tomarrow) I would go searching through the monsters for others that have feats w/out requisites. Make a list, check it twice - and see if there are any other feats we can start subbing with special abilities. This of course may have already been done - but not by me. I think we need to move this debate into the tavern where it belongs. It's my fault for accidentally posting here in the first place, but this isn't something that has a baring on this thread.
Luni 11-19-05, 01:49 AM	Ariel vs Krunch (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7790349) @Telin: I think the undead would of came with me, since it is hard to defend Ariel if they can't see Ariel. Naglfari should also attack, as he has the defend trick. AS for the silence, I completely forgot about that. Edit: Hmm. I don't think moving out of the obscuring mist would be in Ariel's plan. The point of the mist is to negate the Invisibility. While she can't cast spells, she probably would of waited til she had saw Krunch before moving.
Gonbow 11-19-05, 01:59 AM	Allow me to restate and clarify this - There are TWO and only TWO monsters in the SRD (Epic & Psionic included) that have Improved grapple. One demon and one devil. There are NO monsters in the SRD (Epic and Psionics unincluded - but I do have the gall to say that "they aint in there either" without looking) with deflect arrows, stunning fist, or snatch arrow. The simple fact that a monster has a feat w/out the prerequisites does not naturally lead to the statment that "natural weapons" are equivalent to unarmed strike. The only proper logical conclusion you can draw from that is - bebliths and barbed devils can take improved grapple. Nothing else is implied. If you gp ahead and take that leap - you might as well land it in logic. Otherwise stick to RAW guns and say what is the case, not what you want to be the case (Im refering to whomever came up with this ruling in the first place). RAW says Improved Unarmed Strike is Improved Unarmed Strike - with 2 exceptions. If I wasnt getting ready to leave this building (and I may still do this tomarrow) I would go searching through the monsters for others that have feats w/out requisites. Make a list, check it twice - and see if there are any other feats we can start subbing with special abilities. This of course may have already been done - but not by me. Savage Species states that natural weapons replace improve unarmed strike as a prerequiste for all feats. Is this support core? No. Is it logical? Yes. Is it consistent how it is done in every single place I've ever seen or played in, including here? Yes.
Maraxus 11-19-05, 05:33 AM	Whow, I have always played silence in a way, that eveybody in the area of efect takes a save to negate that spell's effect on himself - not only the target the spell is centered on. But reading the spell again, I think this was just optimistic thinking. Whow, this is really evil.
Pittbull 11-19-05, 05:44 AM	Allow me to restate and clarify this - There are TWO and only TWO monsters in the SRD (Epic & Psionic included) that have Improved grapple. One demon and one devil. There are NO monsters in the SRD (Epic and Psionics unincluded - but I do have the gall to say that "they aint in there either" without looking) with deflect arrows, stunning fist, or snatch arrow. The simple fact that a monster has a feat w/out the prerequisites does not naturally lead to the statment that "natural weapons" are equivalent to unarmed strike. The only proper logical conclusion you can draw from that is - bebliths and barbed devils can take improved grapple. Nothing else is implied. If you gp ahead and take that leap - you might as well land it in logic. Otherwise stick to RAW guns and say what is the case, not what you want to be the case (Im refering to whomever came up with this ruling in the first place). RAW says Improved Unarmed Strike is Improved Unarmed Strike - with 2 exceptions. If I wasnt getting ready to leave this building (and I may still do this tomarrow) I would go searching through the monsters for others that have feats w/out requisites. Make a list, check it twice - and see if there are any other feats we can start subbing with special abilities. This of course may have already been done - but not by me. The answer to this is very simple, these improved grapple feats are monster-feats, deriving from the monster's hit-dice. They don't need any prerequesites. Sloisl has a list of rule-questions, he pointed that clear some months ago.
Pittbull 11-19-05, 11:54 AM	The fight Sdentch vs Aquin has been posted here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7792025&postcount=659)! Sdentch has been very lucky with the rolls, sorry Telin. If there are any concerns, please tell me.
TelinArtho 11-19-05, 12:10 PM	Well, I'm not sure that I could've won with all those misses anyway. The only thing I think I can bring up is the rewards are incorrect - Aquin should only get 600xp not 900xp. Good fight there Sdentch.
Pittbull 11-19-05, 12:14 PM	Well, I'm not sure that I could've won with all those misses anyway. The only thing I think I can bring up is the rewards are incorrect - Aquin should only get 600xp not 900xp. Good fight there Sdentch. Rewards fixed. Yes, the online-roller really hated you. Thanks, running the fight was fun. Next time the dice-gods should favor Aquin!
TelinArtho 11-19-05, 12:22 PM	@Telin: I think the undead would of came with me, since it is hard to defend Ariel if they can't see Ariel. Naglfari should also attack, as he has the defend trick. AS for the silence, I completely forgot about that. Edit: Hmm. I don't think moving out of the obscuring mist would be in Ariel's plan. The point of the mist is to negate the Invisibility. While she can't cast spells, she probably would of waited til she had saw Krunch before moving. I disagree - all of your actions involved some sort of spell-casting on sight. While within the mist, not only did you not have sight - you weren't going to be able to cast spells, so the most logical move (according to the tactics that you had written) would be to move to an area that would allow you to cast spells. As to the skeletons following you - that is not a part of "defend" - especially if they have ranged weapons to defend you with. Your horse should have defended you - that is correct, assuming it has the reach (which it wouldn't while you are mounted, but once you are tripped off of your horse - it would). I'll roll in the attacks for that - though I can't see that they'll make enough of a difference. --Just rolled them - Ngalfari has the chance to make 6 attacks and they all miss (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=191288).
KerlanRayne 11-19-05, 01:47 PM	The answer to this is very simple, these improved grapple feats are monster-feats, deriving from the monster's hit-dice. They don't need any prerequesites.No, this is not true. Only racial bonus feats don't have to meet prerequisites and they are marked with a 'B' to show it. Normal feats from hit dice still have to meet prerequisites. As an example, they put out eratta changing all the Weapon Finesse feats for creatures without a BAB of +1 to racial bonus feats. KerlanRayne
Pittbull 11-19-05, 02:04 PM	Hm, OK, you seem to be right.
Book5 11-19-05, 02:22 PM	I think we need to move this debate into the tavern where it belongs. It's my fault for accidentally posting here in the first place, but this isn't something that has a bearing on this thread. It has to come up somehow. @interested - quoted info into tavern
One_Winged_Angel 11-19-05, 03:05 PM	Balbanes (King Uther) vs Tezca (Usurpator): One_Winged_Angel [Week 2] I have no tactics from either side. I dunno if someone was supposed to foreward them, but I need them by tomorrow, 12 PM Pacific coast time at the latest to run this fight.
Tellish_of_Ket 11-19-05, 03:18 PM	Balbanes (King Uther) vs Tezca (Usurpator): One_Winged_Angel [Week 2] I have no tactics from either side. I dunno if someone was supposed to foreward them, but I need them by tomorrow, 12 PM Pacific coast time at the latest to run this fight. I believe you were suppose to use the current tactics that are in their previously posted fight. -ToK
One_Winged_Angel 11-19-05, 03:33 PM	I believe you were suppose to use the current tactics that are in their previously posted fight. -ToK I'd rather give them the chance to send in tactics. If I don't have them by that time tomorrow, I'll run the fight either with default tactics or their previously run fights.
NiQil 11-19-05, 03:47 PM	I'd rather give them the chance to send in tactics. If I don't have them by that time tomorrow, I'll run the fight either with default tactics or their previously run fights. I think you missed the idea behind what ToK said. The reason this fight says Week 2 is that it was paired last week, but the fight could not come to a satisfactory resolution before the week was up. I believe it was Luni who has already tried to run the fight. So the fight was held over for the week (hence the week 2), and is needing to be rerun, using the tactics that were submitted to Luni last week and have already been posted in the battle thread. That is what ToK was trying to say.
Tellish_of_Ket 11-19-05, 04:17 PM	I'd rather give them the chance to send in tactics. If I don't have them by that time tomorrow, I'll run the fight either with default tactics or their previously run fights. Thanks NiQil. That is exactly what i was trying to say. Haste makes waste i guess. I was in a bit of a hurry i guess i didn't get my message across properly. Yes, OWA, you will have to use the tactics already sent, and you cannot accept any addendums (other than rules clarification) beyond what's already been posted in their previous fight. -ToK
One_Winged_Angel 11-19-05, 04:32 PM	Thanks NiQil. That is exactly what i was trying to say. Haste makes waste i guess. I was in a bit of a hurry i guess i didn't get my message across properly. Yes, OWA, you will have to use the tactics already sent, and you cannot accept any addendums (other than rules clarification) beyond what's already been posted in their previous fight. -ToK Oh...
Snommelp 11-19-05, 05:18 PM	Running Kailia vs. Caspian right now; just noticed that Kailia's crossbow is a repeating crossbow, so I will now be adding more attacks from her.
Snommelp 11-19-05, 05:47 PM	Caspian vs. Kailia is up. Good old-fashioned western shoot-outs don't translate well to DnD, especially when one combatant is an android.
SauroGrenom 11-19-05, 07:00 PM	Sam vs Shakari (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7794269&postcount=661) is up. I hope it is all correct in the end. I forgot to add in the bonus because of Shakari's bulls strength for a while, and edited the roles. The out come for poor Sam was predictable. I'm of the opinion that the Arena and Gladius in general doesn't count as an aquatic enviroment, so druids shouldn't get to have croc's as animal companions. But that's just my opinion. The croc companion stinks of twinkery like a pile of tarrasque poo.
Snommelp 11-19-05, 07:12 PM	Sam vs Shakari (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7794269&postcount=661) is up. I hope it is all correct in the end. I forgot to add in the bonus because of Shakari's bulls strength for a while, and edited the roles. The out come for poor Sam was predictable. I'm of the opinion that the Arena and Gladius in general doesn't count as an aquatic enviroment, so druids shouldn't get to have croc's as animal companions. But that's just my opinion. The croc companion stinks of twinkery like a pile of tarrasque poo. Two problems, one that helps me and one that helps my foe: 1) Sam has a heavy crossbow. Takes a full round to load. 2) Shared spells with durations other than instant remain shared only as long as the companion is within 5 feet of the caster. EDIT: Also, Sam's reward is wrong. Shakari gets the XP and GP penalty for her ally, and Sam gets a bonus for her ally.
Begferdeth 11-19-05, 08:01 PM	Raskos vs Validi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7795261&postcount=663) is up! See the Jade Father take on the Dire Flame! See illusions getting slaughtered by the dozens! See how many mistakes I can make in an aireal battle!
One_Winged_Angel 11-19-05, 09:24 PM	Caspian vs. Kailia is up. Good old-fashioned western shoot-outs don't translate well to DnD, especially when one combatant is an android. One...tiny...little... I asked in my tactics to use a stone of animal affinity to enhance my Con when I hit low HP. In the last recorded round, that would have been a cheery +8 to HP. Also, is there a special reason I didn't use Ego whip on him? Just a curiosity since it would have bought me a round or two beforehand since he would have had to pick his bow up after stunning. I also don't see the reason you didn't use biofeedback in this case (ego whip failing). DR 2/- would have been nice. EDIT: Heck, I could use both almost since I have 6 PP left over...
Maraxus 11-19-05, 10:36 PM	Methos vs Casgish Darath is up. ... good fight, good night.
NiQil 11-19-05, 10:37 PM	Caspian vs. Kailia is up. Good old-fashioned western shoot-outs don't translate well to DnD, especially when one combatant is an android. Can I get you to edit the fight summary with the expendables and such? By my count, I used a tattoo of force screen (not mentioned), hit with 6 arrows (not mentioned), and had 10 misses that need rolls for recoverability.
NiQil 11-19-05, 10:41 PM	Methos vs Casgish Darath is up. ... good fight, good night. Can you please edit in the profession earnings for Methos (84 gp)? Also, in the summary, I used a tattoo of inertial armor, not mage armor...and please add the 4 arrows that I used.
waywreth 11-19-05, 10:48 PM	Methos vs Casgish Darath is up. ... good fight, good night. Thanks for running the fight... I would have liked to have seen my horse attack for those rounds I closed, and/or Casgish using magic missles... ah well. Anyway please add in my GP from my crafting for the week as well.
Book5 11-19-05, 10:53 PM	Auburn and Rebreg (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7796245&posted=1#post7796245) ALL about the tactics. I need to finish it, but its over - you'll see.
Vathelokai 11-20-05, 02:26 AM	Auburn and Rebreg (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7796245&posted=1#post7796245) ALL about the tactics. I need to finish it, but its over - you'll see. Holy Cow! It actually worked! *EDIT* Only thing I notice is that grabbing an item is a move action, so Auburn would grab the potion in the first round and the xbow in the second, followed by a move. Dosn't change anything. I would offer a surrender, just to save expendables. And I'd give the potion back at the end of the fight.
Iced 11-20-05, 03:24 AM	Raskos vs Validi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7795261&postcount=663) is up! See the Jade Father take on the Dire Flame! See illusions getting slaughtered by the dozens! See how many mistakes I can make in an aireal battle! I had protection from fire and i don't think that was taken out of the damage rolls, but as the fight stands, i'm happy with the win.
Usurpator 11-20-05, 04:18 AM	Balbanes (King Uther) vs Tezca (Usurpator): One_Winged_Angel [Week 2] I have no tactics from either side. I dunno if someone was supposed to foreward them, but I need them by tomorrow, 12 PM Pacific coast time at the latest to run this fight. Yes, it is with the same tactics. I already discussed it with King Uther and we agreed on this as well. Although I am missing an tactics addendum that I sent to Luni the friday before the previous fight in the quoted tactics. I don't know if she ever got it, but I'll reproduce it here, since it might be significant (why I sent it in the first place). Just to be on the safe side: Contingencies - Swarm attack: run away. Use potion of clw if bleeding. However, If Luni cannot confirm receiving the addendum before the previous fight, obviously you cannot use it...
Usurpator 11-20-05, 05:00 AM	Having a nose for good opportunities and not particulary weighed down by morals: Shazzelin the Gray challenges Maven!
Maraxus 11-20-05, 07:37 AM	Can you please edit in the profession earnings for Methos (84 gp)? Also, in the summary, I used a tattoo of inertial armor, not mage armor...and please add the 4 arrows that I used. Okay, done and done. Looks like I was getting inattentive on the last meters. waywreth: Well, the problem was, that your lance has 10ft reach and your horse only 5. And I looked again and it looks like you can not attack with your melee weapon while your horse moves. (The rules are unclear and the rules of the game sais: "Melee Attack: You can make a melee attack from your moving mount. If your mount makes a single move, you make your attack either before or after the movement.") I agree, that it would have been possible to cast and then have the horse attack, however at that point you were still trying to get a lance attack in before going over to magic missles. And nightbanegod: Why do you post characters ad then you don't put the fight up for a day? To much Flurry for my heart. :)
Macbrea 11-20-05, 07:57 AM	(The rules are unclear and the rules of the game sais: "Melee Attack: You can make a melee attack from your moving mount. If your mount makes a single move, you make your attack either before or after the movement.") Not sure how unclear the rules are: " If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance." ~SRD Mounted Combat section That seems to indicate if your horse makes a charge maneuver you may make an attack with a Lance for double damage.
Snommelp 11-20-05, 08:53 AM	One...tiny...little... I asked in my tactics to use a stone of animal affinity to enhance my Con when I hit low HP. In the last recorded round, that would have been a cheery +8 to HP. Also, is there a special reason I didn't use Ego whip on him? Just a curiosity since it would have bought me a round or two beforehand since he would have had to pick his bow up after stunning. I also don't see the reason you didn't use biofeedback in this case (ego whip failing). DR 2/- would have been nice. EDIT: Heck, I could use both almost since I have 6 PP left over... From your tactics: If he manages to put me in the hole for HP before I am forced to melee, use it for Con instead...so I suppose you did ask for a second Animal Affinity, although it certainly could have been clearer. It will be added. You didn't use Ego Whip because you said to ready it against a rage. He did not rage. However, I will edit Biofeedback in later today. And I'll also edit in spent items; I can't believe I forgot those.
Begferdeth 11-20-05, 10:48 AM	Actually, when I looked up Endure Elements, it doesnt give any protection from fire attacks. It just makes you able to put up with being in really hot places. I had protection from fire and i don't think that was taken out of the damage rolls, but as the fight stands, i'm happy with the win.
Iced 11-20-05, 12:47 PM	Actually, when I looked up Endure Elements, it doesnt give any protection from fire attacks. It just makes you able to put up with being in really hot places. Wow, you learn something new every day...:p
Book5 11-20-05, 12:50 PM	I would offer a surrender, just to save expendables. And I'd give the potion back at the end of the fight. I was going to stick to xbow bolts, (no scrolls) but if Sauro says so I'll zip it up there. You better give the potion back!! Otherwise you better cough up the GP. I take the all sundered equipment is repaired deal to include stolen stuff is returned. Oh and auburn picks up the potion as a free move with presto, so... I am SO doing that from now on btw! Note - If Rebreg had been ready to drink the potion o sight of Auburn.. but he did say that he was waiting to make sure she was flying... so.. well... Should I give Rebreg the listen to notice Auburn casting - and a spellcraft to notice the fly spell in effect? I didnt bother with spellcraft on colorspray cause there aint nuthin knowings gonna do for him.
SauroGrenom 11-20-05, 02:27 PM	Auburn and Rebreg (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7796245&posted=1#post7796245) ALL about the tactics. I need to finish it, but its over - you'll see. OK, here are the problems I see so far. First, you cannot hide before you take an action, so Auburn doesn't get to start hiding, although Rebreg's spot check is so low that he won't spot the gnome at that distance anyway. Rebreg gets reactive listen checks every time that Auburn casts a spell. He hasn't been given those rolls, but it's it's still worth the long shot that he will hear the gnome casting. Also In round 3 Rebreg appears to race back to nearly the same position as where he started in round 2. This must be a typo where his ending position should be (19,0) not (-19,0). It would make sense that he move to (19,0), so I'll assume that's a typo. This is reasonable, because this is the only starting block he hasn't visited yet at this point in time. Back in round 1 you rolled to see if he moved to the left or the right, and he moved to the left so he should continue around the arena in a clockwise direction. If that is the case, and he heads toward the central pilliar in round 4 then Auburn will be forced to come out of hiding to move into range at the end of round 4 since Auburn is not near enough to cover for hiding durring her entire movement. Also, investigating the central piliars is a kind of idiotic thing for the giant to do. He has run around the entire arena at such a speed that it is very unlikely that anyone could be hiding in there. Going into there makes it very difficult for him to find the gnome becasue the crafty gnome who likes to hide is very likely to get a good place to hide from him while all of his LOS is blocked in every direction. Then on top of all that, in round 6 Auburn fires off a color spray from a range that is too far to hit Rebreg. Every time Auburn moves, Rebreg gets a listen check, and in this (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=191566) round he beats the listen check and should have an idea of where Auburn is. Then is this (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=191567) round he beats the move silently by more than 5 so he should know fairly well where she is. Then in this (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=191573) round he beats the move silently by more than 10, so he will know where she is within 10 feet. He should use the knowlege of his opponent's position to his advantage and move accordingly to give him the best chances to spot his opponent. Lastly and most importatly, it is not so easy to grap items that are not in a chracter's hands. Look at the following section from the SRD: Grabbing Items You can use a disarm action to snatch an item worn by the target. If you want to have the item in your hand, the disarm must be made as an unarmed attack. If the item is poorly secured or otherwise easy to snatch or cut away the attacker gets a +4 bonus. Unlike on a normal disarm attempt, failing the attempt doesn’t allow the defender to attempt to disarm you. This otherwise functions identically to a disarm attempt, as noted above. You can’t snatch an item that is well secured unless you have pinned the wearer (see Grapple). Even then, the defender gains a +4 bonus on his roll to resist the attempt. Aubrun must succeed on a disarm check. It is up to the pitlord here if weapons are poorly secured items or well secured items. Obviously I would like for it to be a well secured item, but it's a grey area in the rules and up to the pitlord to decide. In this fight you seem to have run Rebreg as if he were an idiot running around the Arena never listening for his opponent, nor doing anything to try and pinpoint his opponent except to move into more dangerious places on the map. The obvious intention of having Rebreg run was to gain LOS into every starting area in the first round, thus making it nearly impossable for his opponent to be in the central area and hopefully spotting the gnome right away or seeing Aubrun move in following rounds. Also you in no case ever used Rebreg's full movement. To run into position (-14,+7) is his ideal location at the end of round 1. From there and on the way to there he has LOS into every part of the starting area on the west and into most of the one on the north. Then he can easily run across the arena to position (26,7) and look into every part of the north area and the east area. I'm sorry, but I think that in the least you need to address the issues from the first, second and third paragraphs of my post.
Gonbow 11-20-05, 02:57 PM	Yay! Three attacks a round at ECL 4 is actually worth something for once. As can be seen here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7798017&postcount=666), with the 666th fight in the battles thread! Woo!
Vathelokai 11-20-05, 03:51 PM	OK, here are the problems I see so far. First, you cannot hide before you take an action, so Auburn doesn't get to start hiding, although Rebreg's spot check is so low that he won't spot the gnome at that distance anyway. Auburn has cover, so she gets to hide as a free action. Rebreg gets reactive listen checks every time that Auburn casts a spell. He hasn't been given those rolls, but it's it's still worth the long shot that he will hear the gnome casting. True. Then on top of all that, in round 6 Auburn fires off a color spray from a range that is too far to hit Rebreg. Didn't check the ranges, but should be easily fixed Lastly and most importatly, it is not so easy to grap items that are not in a chracter's hands. Look at the following section from the SRD: Aubrun must succeed on a disarm check. It is up to the pitlord here if weapons are poorly secured items or well secured items. Obviously I would like for it to be a well secured item, but it's a grey area in the rules and up to the pitlord to decide. Since Rebreg was stunned by the colorspray, he droped any held items, i.e. the potion. The xbow could be considered loosely secured, since you would need to draw it. I'm sorry, but I think that in the least you need to address the issues from the first, second and third paragraphs of my post. Stunned: A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a –2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).I think that if you cannot take any actions, you cannot resist the disarm to take the xbow. But if I'm wrong about that, then I wouldn't grab it. I put in my tactics to grab the xbow if reasonable. Since the roll for Auburn to disarm Rebreg is impossible, I see that as unreasonable. Sauro is correct and these things should be addressed. However, since Rebreg rolled a 3 on his save vs. colorspray, he's still in a situation where he's fighting a flying opponent with prot. arrows.
Gonbow 11-20-05, 05:28 PM	Actually, he is right. You cannot hide before your initiative count. I've been over this with my characters before.
Usurpator 11-20-05, 05:46 PM	Sigh, my free-for-all is into round 60.....
Luni 11-20-05, 05:56 PM	Yes, it is with the same tactics. I already discussed it with King Uther and we agreed on this as well. Although I am missing an tactics addendum that I sent to Luni the friday before the previous fight in the quoted tactics. I don't know if she ever got it, but I'll reproduce it here, since it might be significant (why I sent it in the first place). Contingencies - Swarm attack: run away. Use potion of clw if bleeding. However, If Luni cannot confirm receiving the addendum before the previous fight, obviously you cannot use it... I confirm it was there in my email box. Edit: I edited it into the fight.
One_Winged_Angel 11-20-05, 06:07 PM	I confirm it was there in my email box. Edit: I edited it into the fight. I have a question on this one: do I simply re-run the entire fight or just edit the issues that were there?
Luni 11-20-05, 06:24 PM	I have a question on this one: do I simply re-run the entire fight or just edit the issues that were there? Just re-run the fight I believe. Just keep in mind their problems and avoid the same Pitlord mistakes I made.
NiQil 11-20-05, 06:39 PM	Yay! Three attacks a round at ECL 4 is actually worth something for once. As can be seen here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7798017&postcount=666), with the 666th fight in the battles thread! Woo! Kinda hard to compete with 6-7 20s....that went way beyond unbelieveable...into a whole new category. I also find it unfathomable that I burned through 6 cure potions with nothing to show for it. I friggin' HATE online dice rollers. Always have, always will. @Macbrea: Can you fix my skill earnings? I earned 84 gp, not 88.
NiQil 11-20-05, 07:11 PM	@Usurpator: You have the all vs all fight posted (but not linked), so I am assuming it is finished. I have a rather large problem with it. Why, when it was down to Anya and Kronos at the end, did you have him hunker down under cover to shoot, when the intent of my tactics was to stay mobile and use my speed advantage? He should have been moving around trying to get clear shots. From my tactics: If I do have LOS on someone, start firing and moving, keeping at least 65 ft between me and them at all times if possible. Avoid melee if at all possible. I would very much like this corrected.
Macbrea 11-20-05, 07:13 PM	Sure I will fix the skill earnings. Sorry, Your tactics stated if you got 15 hps or less you would use a potion of cure light wounds. So, by triggered action, you stepped backwards and healed yourself. He rolled way too many 20s in my opinion and you got an entire set of rage without a hit. Dice rolls killed you more then anything.
NiQil 11-20-05, 07:21 PM	Sure I will fix the skill earnings. Sorry, Your tactics stated if you got 15 hps or less you would use a potion of cure light wounds. So, by triggered action, you stepped backwards and healed yourself. He rolled way too many 20s in my opinion and you got an entire set of rage without a hit. Dice rolls killed you more then anything. Nono....don't misunderstand....you ran the fight exactly as I wished....no fault of yours....just can't believe how many 20's there were there. I hate online dice rollers. BTW....did I mention how much I hate online dice rollers?
SauroGrenom 11-20-05, 07:21 PM	Raskos vs Validi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7795261&postcount=663) is up! See the Jade Father take on the Dire Flame! See illusions getting slaughtered by the dozens! See how many mistakes I can make in an aireal battle! The only complaint I have is that Validi shouldn't have had the vigor(5) because he didn't have enough money to pay for the powerstone. The price he paid is several hundred gp too low for the powers on the stone and with the proper price he wouldn't be able to afford it. Without that stone he should have used the vigor stone at ML(3) and then not had it anymore in the 18th round. The effect of having less expendibles to use for HP increases will likely result in a loss for Validi. I suppose it's your perogative as pitlord to decide if my opponents equipment is not available because of his mistake in pricing. But it would swing the fight if Validi didn't have an extra 25hp worth of healing available. Also, Raskos has several rounds(7and 8) where he is doing nothing, and it would make sense to spend some of that time using his phrenic abilities to buff his AC. Defensive precognition and force screen will increase Raskok's AC by an extra 5 points and that's enough to cause a miss on the last round.
Sunwolf 11-20-05, 07:34 PM	@Dr. Funk RE: Leif and Mini fight Thanks for running the fight. Class allies (like Familiars) aren't counted as allies in the rewards calulations. Winner share should be 900xp/900gp +57gp and losers share should be 300xp/300gp
SauroGrenom 11-20-05, 07:38 PM	I think that if you cannot take any actions, you cannot resist the disarm to take the xbow. But if I'm wrong about that, then I wouldn't grab it. I put in my tactics to grab the xbow if reasonable. Since the roll for Auburn to disarm Rebreg is impossible, I see that as unreasonable. Sauro is correct and these things should be addressed. However, since Rebreg rolled a 3 on his save vs. colorspray, he's still in a situation where he's fighting a flying opponent with prot. arrows. First off, you cannot take a free action on someone elses turn, but that is besides the point as it's not relevant to this fight. The pitlord realy gets to make the call on the disarm check, but that is mostly after its too late for Rebreg to have any expectation of winning. Where Rebreg is realy screwed in this fight is the way he moves around the Arena. It appears that he moved in a very simplistic search pattern that almost ensured that he was unable to spot Auburn because he never had LOS to your general area ever. He just never went over to that side of the Arena. Which is a realy stupid thing for a person searching to do. He effectively searched some areas of the arena twice, and others none at all and ended every turn so that he wouldn't have LOS to your general area. Aubrun's hiding skill is a potent ability, but Rebreg's moves made it easy for you to sneak up on him and fire the color spray while he was unaware. Honestly, I didn't plan for the possibility that Rebreg couldn't find Auburn for 6 turns, but what can you do. I just noticed that in round 6 rebreg is readied to drink his potion, but he doesn't get a spot/listen check when Auburn moves into position to cast on him. That readied action should go off before the spell and he would have consumed the potion. If he spots you, then the fight will change entirely.
Mind Rogue 11-20-05, 07:57 PM	Some comments on the FFA fight. Round 3: Anya doesn't have a powerstone of offensive precognition. It is one of her powers known (-1 pp, +4 minute duration). Round 6: One cannot take improved cover while attacking, so Kronos only has a +4 AC bonus from cover. Also, energy ray is a ranged touch attack, so it hit regardless, and probably hurts really badly. Also, you might want to adjust Anya's pp count. You apparently forgot that it costs 4 pp Round 6: You also have two round 6s. Round 7: 10 +9 = 19 not 12, but it still fails either way. Round 13: Because Anya cast precog herself, it doesn't wear off. Sorry about that long fight though. Edit: Nevermind about the Pp, I thought someone came close enough for an energy ray. If only I manifested an augmented offensive precog and a biofeedback from memory. If I get on top of things and do my lab report, I may have my fight done tonight, but I'll probably have to do it tomorrow.
SauroGrenom 11-20-05, 08:49 PM	Seams like all of my characters lost this week. Kracknol totally bit it. Looks like Kronos was realy lucky with two critical hits on Kracknol and Kracknol scoring misses every time he attacked Kronos. Raskos was torn up by Validi. (who had too many expendables) And Rebreg was stunned by Auburn. (who snuck up on Rebreg far too easily, and had only a 20% chance of success with the color spray attack anyway but got lucky.) What's a guy to do. :twitch:
One_Winged_Angel 11-20-05, 09:03 PM	Well, good news. I'm on round 28 of my fight. Bad news: No one has caused damage yet. Anyway, the main reason I'm asking my question is what do you do if a gladiator's tactics is very, very unlikely to work (let's say it's a 1/6 chance of working) and you are not sure what to do. Ideas?
Ravashack 11-20-05, 09:09 PM	I can't connect to my email for some reason, so I can't email you at this minute, but I got your PM and PMed my tactics to you again. I've been waiting for confirmation that you received them since Wednesday. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7773323&postcount=43). If for some reason they STILL do not make it into your PM, I will try my email again tomorrow, but please confirm if they made it or not this time.
Begferdeth 11-20-05, 09:20 PM	Actually, I went and added up that whole stone. I came up with the same number that was on the sheet, so I let him have it. Took me a while too, looking up which powers on there were actually augmented, and which were just higher level because they cant be augmented. Also, I left Raskos doing nothing in rounds 7 and 8, because you were point blank to Validi, and he would probably have heard you. You didnt know he was an illusion at that point. The only complaint I have is that Validi shouldn't have had the vigor(5) because he didn't have enough money to pay for the powerstone. The price he paid is several hundred gp too low for the powers on the stone and with the proper price he wouldn't be able to afford it. Without that stone he should have used the vigor stone at ML(3) and then not had it anymore in the 18th round. The effect of having less expendibles to use for HP increases will likely result in a loss for Validi. I suppose it's your perogative as pitlord to decide if my opponents equipment is not available because of his mistake in pricing. But it would swing the fight if Validi didn't have an extra 25hp worth of healing available. Also, Raskos has several rounds(7and 8) where he is doing nothing, and it would make sense to spend some of that time using his phrenic abilities to buff his AC. Defensive precognition and force screen will increase Raskok's AC by an extra 5 points and that's enough to cause a miss on the last round.
Luni 11-20-05, 10:09 PM	I can't connect to my email for some reason, so I can't email you at this minute, but I got your PM and PMed my tactics to you again. I've been waiting for confirmation that you received them since Wednesday. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7773323&postcount=43). If for some reason they STILL do not make it into your PM, I will try my email again tomorrow, but please confirm if they made it or not this time. I got them!
KerlanRayne 11-20-05, 10:23 PM	Actually, I went and added up that whole stone. I came up with the same number that was on the sheet, so I let him have it. Took me a while too, looking up which powers on there were actually augmented, and which were just higher level because they cant be augmented.The vigor stones were not augmented. If you look next to Expansion on his list, it has an 'A' next to it which means Augmented. His vigor stones don't have this so the Vigor[5] will give you only 5 HP for 50 rounds. By the way, we have a house rule on prices for augmented power stones in the Rules thread. Augmented Powerstones/Tattoos: For every two manifester levels above the minimum, the power level increases by one. This directly affects the pricing of such items. It only applies to augmented stones and tattoos. Unaugmented ones use the normal formula. Example (augmented): VigorA [ML 5] = 25*5*3 = 375 gp [+25 hp] Example (unaugmented): Vigor [ML 5] = 25*5*1 = 125 gp [+5 hp]KerlanRayne
Ravashack 11-20-05, 10:38 PM	I got them! Thanks. :)
SauroGrenom 11-20-05, 10:41 PM	Actually, I went and added up that whole stone. I came up with the same number that was on the sheet, so I let him have it. Took me a while too, looking up which powers on there were actually augmented, and which were just higher level because they cant be augmented. Also, I left Raskos doing nothing in rounds 7 and 8, because you were point blank to Validi, and he would probably have heard you. You didnt know he was an illusion at that point. This is what I get on that stone for the price: Detect Hostile Intent Power Level 2 Manifester Level 5 (5x2x25)=250gp Vigor Augmented Power Level3 (CoCo rules on Augmenting) ML5 (5x3x25)=375gp Concealing Amorphia Power Level2 ML5 (5x2x25)=250gp Expansion Augmented Power Level2 ML3 (3x2x25)=150gp Force Screen Power Level1 ML1 (1x1x25)=25gp Synthetate Power Level1 ML1 (1x1x25)=25gp Total= 250+375+250+150+25+25= 1075gp Exacitally 325 gp more than was spent on the item and 311gp more than the max that Validi could afford. If the Vigor stones are unaugmented then the price of the stone is 825. Still to high, but in that case the Vigor only grants 5 HP for 50 rounds, but only 5 HP is kind of wimpy. Surely Iced intended for the Vigor in both powerstones to be augmented. If we want to be realy strict about using only what's on his sheet, then he cannot have the first powerstone because he doesn't have the money to buy it, and the second only grants 5hp for 30 rounds. Those two changes would totally swing the fight.
One_Winged_Angel 11-20-05, 10:42 PM	Balbanes vs. Tezca (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7803444&postcount=671) is up. Complaints please. :raincloud
SauroGrenom 11-20-05, 10:47 PM	Id like to bring up a question. Silent image can be disbelieved if it is interacted with. So what is that exacitally. Do you have to touch it, or see it and not hear it, or what?
One_Winged_Angel 11-20-05, 10:54 PM	Id like to bring up a question. Silent image can be disbelieved if it is interacted with. So what is that exacitally. Do you have to touch it, or see it and not hear it, or what? In the arena, I would guess trying to attack it in any way.
Snommelp 11-20-05, 11:45 PM	...so I suppose you did ask for a second Animal Affinity, although it certainly could have been clearer. It will be added. You didn't use Ego Whip because you said to ready it against a rage. He did not rage. However, I will edit Biofeedback in later today. And I'll also edit in spent items; I can't believe I forgot those. I officially hate this fight. I've added twelve rounds now because of Biofeedback and bad rolls. The only forseeable end is when Kailia runs out of both bolts and Skate in a few rounds. EDIT: Finished in round 38. Now to add expended items... :weep:
Snommelp 11-21-05, 12:11 AM	I really hate to do this, but I'm going to have no time at all tomorrow to run the Hunter fight. Could somebody possibly take it? I'll PM or e-mail tactics, whichever you prefer. I promise I'll make up for this by running extra fights over Thanksgiving.
One_Winged_Angel 11-21-05, 12:15 AM	I officially hate this fight. I've added twelve rounds now because of Biofeedback and bad rolls. The only forseeable end is when Kailia runs out of both bolts and Skate in a few rounds. EDIT: Finished in round 38. Now to add expended items... :weep: Hehe. Naw. That's just when melee starts.
SauroGrenom 11-21-05, 12:17 AM	Two problems, one that helps me and one that helps my foe: 1) Sam has a heavy crossbow. Takes a full round to load. 2) Shared spells with durations other than instant remain shared only as long as the companion is within 5 feet of the caster. EDIT: Also, Sam's reward is wrong. Shakari gets the XP and GP penalty for her ally, and Sam gets a bonus for her ally. Sorry Snommelp, 1: I will change this if you realy want me to, but it will only make you get fewer attacks off before you are based. 2: OK excellent point. I didn't look that up and you are right. So the change in strength will not change the outcome of any of the grapple checks, but in the last round, you end with something like -8 or -6 hp instead of being dead. There are still several attacks comming at you in that round, and you're pinned with an AC of 5 against the horses 3 natural attacks. I can extend the round of combat if you tell me you realy want me to. 3: I edited the extra GP/XP in. Your at ECL5 now so the effect of the horse is a minimal 8%.
Iced 11-21-05, 12:21 AM	This is what I get on that stone for the price: Detect Hostile Intent Power Level 2 Manifester Level 5 (5x2x25)=250gp Vigor Augmented Power Level3 (CoCo rules on Augmenting) ML5 (5x3x25)=375gp Concealing Amorphia Power Level2 ML5 (5x2x25)=250gp Expansion Augmented Power Level2 ML3 (3x2x25)=150gp Force Screen Power Level1 ML1 (1x1x25)=25gp Synthetate Power Level1 ML1 (1x1x25)=25gp Total= 250+375+250+150+25+25= 1075gp Exacitally 325 gp more than was spent on the item and 311gp more than the max that Validi could afford. If the Vigor stones are unaugmented then the price of the stone is 825. Still to high, but in that case the Vigor only grants 5 HP for 50 rounds, but only 5 HP is kind of wimpy. Surely Iced intended for the Vigor in both powerstones to be augmented. If we want to be realy strict about using only what's on his sheet, then he cannot have the first powerstone because he doesn't have the money to buy it, and the second only grants 5hp for 30 rounds. Those two changes would totally swing the fight. If someone audits his sheet, they'll find that all the gold adds up. I simply forgot to change the price tag on the powerstone after Validi was called on this exact subject. The total difference was deducted from his total gold. You will also notice that the pricing in his expenddables section is the right price [375gp] for the augmented version of vigor.
Snommelp 11-21-05, 12:26 AM	Sorry Snommelp, 1: I will change this if you realy want me to, but it will only make you get fewer attacks off before you are based. 2: OK excellent point. I didn't look that up and you are right. So the change in strength will not change the outcome of any of the grapple checks, but in the last round, you end with something like -8 or -6 hp instead of being dead. There are still several attacks comming at you in that round, and you're pinned with an AC of 5 against the horses 3 natural attacks. I can extend the round of combat if you tell me you realy want me to. 3: I edited the extra GP/XP in. Your at ECL5 now so the effect of the horse is a minimal 8%. I don't care if you take out the shots and add the extra grapples, since Sam was doomed to start. Thanks for changing the rewards, though. And speaking of rewards, they've been added to the fixed Caspian vs. Kailia.
NiQil 11-21-05, 12:35 AM	I don't care if you take out the shots and add the extra grapples, since Sam was doomed to start. Thanks for changing the rewards, though. And speaking of rewards, they've been added to the fixed Caspian vs. Kailia. You forgot the tattoo of force screen that Caspian used at the beginning of the fight in the fights summary.
Guildmaster (WAR) 11-21-05, 12:39 AM	You forgot the tattoo of force screen that Caspian used at the beginning of the fight in the fights summary. Not only did I forget to add it to the summary; I forgot to use it! Am I going to have to edit again?...
NiQil 11-21-05, 12:45 AM	Not only did I forget to add it to the summary; I forgot to use it! Am I going to have to edit again?... Naw....had I lost I woulda made ya LOL...but that would just increase yer agony...I'll let you put the fight out of it's misery LOL.
Snommelp 11-21-05, 12:52 AM	Naw....had I lost I woulda made ya LOL...but that would just increase yer agony...I'll let you put the fight out of it's misery LOL. Thanks. If there aren't any more objections from OWA, then let's put this fight to rest. And me too; I got up too early this morning. I can do my math homework tomorrow in my lunch break...
Vathelokai 11-21-05, 12:54 AM	First off, you cannot take a free action on someone elses turn, but that is besides the point as it's not relevant to this fight. The pitlord realy gets to make the call on the disarm check, but that is mostly after its too late for Rebreg to have any expectation of winning. Where Rebreg is realy screwed in this fight is the way he moves around the Arena. It appears that he moved in a very simplistic search pattern that almost ensured that he was unable to spot Auburn because he never had LOS to your general area ever. He just never went over to that side of the Arena. Which is a realy stupid thing for a person searching to do. He effectively searched some areas of the arena twice, and others none at all and ended every turn so that he wouldn't have LOS to your general area. Aubrun's hiding skill is a potent ability, but Rebreg's moves made it easy for you to sneak up on him and fire the color spray while he was unaware. Honestly, I didn't plan for the possibility that Rebreg couldn't find Auburn for 6 turns, but what can you do. Link to fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7796245&postcount=665) http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/Vathelokai/CoCo%20Maps/RvA.jpg Ok... Round 0 - If Gonbow is correct, and you cannot hide when flat footed, then Rebreg sees Auburn from the start. Round 4 - Ummm... That looks like LOS to me. Not to mention that Auburn couldn't move that far with a single move. Round 4+ - Rebregs movement does look kind of strange here. It looks to me like See Invis was confused with Invis. I just noticed that in round 6 rebreg is readied to drink his potion, but he doesn't get a spot/listen check when Auburn moves into position to cast on him. That readied action should go off before the spell and he would have consumed the potion. If he spots you, then the fight will change entirely.Yeah, round 6 has issues. It's one of those double ready action issues in the tactics. Rebreg was readied to drink when he saw Auburn. Auburn was to move around the corner and ready to cast color spray when Rebreg drinks. If his opponent is flying, Rebreg will drink the potion of fly and go after the little mage. Since Auburn was landbound, and Rebreg has no spellcraft to use, Auburn wouldn't appear to be flying; at least that was what Auburn was going for.Until further notice, stay on the ground. Pretend I have cast expid. retreat; he dosn't have spellcraft, so he shouldn't know the difference. So, I believe, the ready should be to drink the potion if Auburn is flying. So Rebreg's ready wouldn't have triggered. At least that's my interpretation. Of course, all of this is moot if Rebreg runs to Auburn's position in round 1, like Gonbow proposes. I believe his logic is that hiding is part of an action, and you cannot take actions flat footed.
MysticMonk2005 11-21-05, 01:42 AM	Azriel Vs Phase Spider (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7804385#post7804385) is now up. Go easy on me eh? First fight I've run in a long long time. Also I am reminded why I had such a bad track record for doing them.
One_Winged_Angel 11-21-05, 01:49 AM	Naw....had I lost I woulda made ya LOL...but that would just increase yer agony...I'll let you put the fight out of it's misery LOL. Hrm, how about the fact that I asked to use my oil of shilleghleh? Also, a note, but I asked to charge, but whatever. She had to lose at some point, may as well be to a good tactician.
Usurpator 11-21-05, 03:09 AM	@Usurpator: You have the all vs all fight posted (but not linked), so I am assuming it is finished. I have a rather large problem with it. Why, when it was down to Anya and Kronos at the end, did you have him hunker down under cover to shoot, when the intent of my tactics was to stay mobile and use my speed advantage? He should have been moving around trying to get clear shots. My assumption was that you wanted to start firing and moving to keep your distance. In this case you had distance. The only Kronos you would achieve is making himself more vulnerable to shots while he runs aroud the arena for nothing. Have you looked at the map? Do you see the spots at a range of 65+ feet in which you would have removed cover from Anya? I don't think so, else you wouldn't have asked for this. I can understand you are frustrated by consuming 10 curing potions and having nothing to show for it, I rather wanted Kronos to sneak forward, rage and try to grapple, but your tactics insisted on the shootout. For your convenience I have added the Grand Hall map with indicated in blue and yellow the positions that Anya would have no cover from Kronos attacks when she was standing respectively against the northern or the eastern statues. As you can see there are very few spaces where she doesn't have cover, and following your tactics would mean Kronos moving back and forth between the yellow and blue sections, and Anya readying to move 10 ft. to cover again when Kronos almost reaches the other section, effectively still not enabling him to shoot her without cover. Unless you got closer, it's simply not possible to remove cover by moving. http://www.greyhawk.nl/images/coc/anya_coverarcs.jpg
Vathelokai 11-21-05, 03:18 AM	@Iced: Has Saffron surrendered yet? :D
Maraxus 11-21-05, 03:24 AM	Arg, Zassl's opponents' tactics are up. And ... did that eagle always have this broach of shielding? I hope I realize my mistake after the first shot ... thought I first have to distinguish the real were-eagle... At least the eagles could be fooled by my disguise self, right? As expected, Yoriko and Imperi say: Hit the small one first. Good luck nightbanegood. :)
Usurpator 11-21-05, 03:31 AM	Balbanes vs. Tezca (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7803444&postcount=671) is up. Complaints please. :raincloud You called? :) Thank you for running the fight, and another difficult one! I'll try and mention my own issues first, and then address issues for King Uther, which I think will be away until next pairings... EDIT: Round 1: From the Rules of Gladius: "If the Listen roll beats the Move Silently by 0-4, randomize within 20'", you can only know the position within 10 ft. if you beat the roll by 10 or more. Round 5: you do not autofail skill checks on a 1. And since Tezca is not shooting and seeing the skill mod's and the distance, he will probably auto-succeed. So, I'm sorry, but the fight is already going wrong here... Round 6: as Luni pointed out last time, to keep concentrating on a spell, you have to be within the spell's range, which is 30 ft. in case of Balbanes' summon swarm. This means that the swarm will probably just lasts 2 rounds, since running away immediately brings it out of range. If Balbanes does stay close, he also stays within scent range. This is another major problem. Round 8: I never said to climb down, and I think it pointless to climb down 5 ft. when you have Tezca's Jump and Tumble skill mod's and don't get any damage from a 5 ft. 'fall' besides. I assumed that even regular gladiators would just jump down and not climb. Round 31+: Once again I am not seeing any sniping, at all. Sniping was the primary tactics unless forced into animal form, which he was not. When you move Tezca to Balbanes to grapple, he seems to be making rake attacks, but he is still in Hybrid form, and he can only rake in animal form. But I didn't want to grapple when in Hybrid form, I wanted to snipe. I know Balbanes primary tactic was ineffective, and PM'ed him this, but he remained confident that it would work. The ineffectiveness is why I even didn't mention it under my contingencies the first time. I sent the tactics addendum because you also musn't overestimate your opponent, and he might get extremely lucky.... Balbanes issues: Fly lasts 50 rounds, not 30 Round 31: King Uther will probably argue that he wanted to fire the acid arrow from invisibility, and thus would have stopped concentrating a few rounds earlier. I will furthermore argue that Tezca should have been hiding and sniping. Round 32: I am not seeing any mi***** from the mirror images that were up **** yeah, that is mis-hit over there...., somehow mis-hits are censored here... But the issues that would change the entire fight are in rounds 5 and 6, later rounds hardly matter at this point. What can I say, sorry for such an unfortunate interaction of tactics, but Balbanes primary tactics is always to evade and only attack when he has an advantageous position. I mirrored Tezca's tactics to do them same, otherwise I would simple lose. Only I built Tezca to be able to do that without using a lot of expandables. Two evaders in the same fight isn't fun to Pitlord....
Sunwolf 11-21-05, 09:14 AM	@Dr. Funk Re: Mini vs Leif fight Missed this on my first glance at the fight. Mini has power resistance so you will need to make a CL check for Leif's MM from scroll -- 1d20+5 vs DC 11 to see if the MM goes through. In case the MM fails and Mini gets the electric energy bolt off -- Leif has resistance 5 to electricity.
Iced 11-21-05, 10:33 AM	@Iced: Has Saffron surrendered yet? :D Not yet working on it. Brilliant tactics btw. ~Iced
Snommelp 11-21-05, 10:48 AM	I really hate to do this, but I'm going to have no time at all tomorrow to run the Hunter fight. Could somebody possibly take it? I'll PM or e-mail tactics, whichever you prefer. I promise I'll make up for this by running extra fights over Thanksgiving. Anyone? Please?
Usurpator 11-21-05, 10:52 AM	Anyone? Please? Please, pretty please? :help: (Cannot do it myself, I have a character in the fight....)
One_Winged_Angel 11-21-05, 10:53 AM	You called? :) Thank you for running the fight, and another difficult one! I'll try and mention my own issues first, and then address issues for King Uther, which I think will be away until next pairings... EDIT: Round 1: From the Rules of Gladius: "If the Listen roll beats the Move Silently by 0-4, randomize within 20'", you can only know the position within 10 ft. if you beat the roll by 10 or more. Round 5: you do not autofail skill checks on a 1. And since Tezca is not shooting and seeing the skill mod's and the distance, he will probably auto-succeed. So, I'm sorry, but the fight is already going wrong here... Sigh. Yah. That's a problem. Round 6: as Luni pointed out last time, to keep concentrating on a spell, you have to be within the spell's range, which is 30 ft. in case of Balbanes' summon swarm. This means that the swarm will probably just lasts 2 rounds, since running away immediately brings it out of range. If Balbanes does stay close, he also stays within scent range. This is another major problem. Not necessarilly. If he stays in range (30 ft) you would know he was there, but you would also need to take a move action to pinpoint where he is. Since you wanted to run away... Round 8: I never said to climb down, and I think it pointless to climb down 5 ft. when you have Tezca's Jump and Tumble skill mod's and don't get any damage from a 5 ft. 'fall' besides. I assumed that even regular gladiators would just jump down and not climb. Point. In the end, does it make much of a difference though? The swarm can't damage you at any rate and Balbanes isn't doing much. Round 31+: Once again I am not seeing any sniping, at all. Sniping was the primary tactics unless forced into animal form, which he was not. When you move Tezca to Balbanes to grapple, he seems to be making rake attacks, but he is still in Hybrid form, and he can only rake in animal form. But I didn't want to grapple when in Hybrid form, I wanted to snipe. Sorry. I misread your tactics. I thought you wanted to attack him in melee whenever you got the chance. I know Balbanes primary tactic was ineffective, and PM'ed him this, but he remained confident that it would work. The ineffectiveness is why I even didn't mention it under my contingencies the first time. I sent the tactics addendum because you also musn't overestimate your opponent, and he might get extremely lucky.... All the same, you might have mentioned it somewhere in your tactics. Balbanes issues: Fly lasts 50 rounds, not 30 Round 31: King Uther will probably argue that he wanted to fire the acid arrow from invisibility, and thus would have stopped concentrating a few rounds earlier. I will furthermore argue that Tezca should have been hiding and sniping. Going off of what is currenlty there, then it turns into a ranged battle. Since it would have ended a few rounds earlier, I guess I'll need to do a re-run. Round 32: I am not seeing any mi***** from the mirror images that were up **** yeah, that is mis-hit over there...., somehow mis-hits are censored here... ...Crap... But the issues that would change the entire fight are in rounds 5 and 6, later rounds hardly matter at this point. What can I say, sorry for such an unfortunate interaction of tactics, but Balbanes primary tactics is always to evade and only attack when he has an advantageous position. I mirrored Tezca's tactics to do them same, otherwise I would simple lose. Only I built Tezca to be able to do that without using a lot of expandables. Two evaders in the same fight isn't fun to Pitlord.... Hehe. Noticed. I'll edit the fight when I get back from class.
Mind Rogue 11-21-05, 11:03 AM	@ Usurpator Would you change the fight results so that Anya isn't marked as using a powerstone of precog since she was supposed to have manifested it from memeory (and because she doesn't have said powerstone). I'd really hate to get jailed by NiQil or Telin over this later when they get round to auditing her. Also, I think you missed the powerstone of detect hostile intent.
Usurpator 11-21-05, 11:25 AM	@ Usurpator Would you change the fight results so that Anya isn't marked as using a powerstone of precog since she was supposed to have manifested it from memeory (and because she doesn't have said powerstone). I'd really hate to get jailed by NiQil or Telin over this later when they get round to auditing her. Also, I think you missed the powerstone of detect hostile intent. I will look at it as soons as I get home from work. I have the fight and all notes sitting at home, at work I'll occasionally check in if a fight is up or someone is asking something, but no major responses or editing....
NiQil 11-21-05, 11:33 AM	My assumption was that you wanted to start firing and moving to keep your distance. In this case you had distance. The only Kronos you would achieve is making himself more vulnerable to shots while he runs aroud the arena for nothing. Have you looked at the map? Do you see the spots at a range of 65+ feet in which you would have removed cover from Anya? I don't think so, else you wouldn't have asked for this. I can understand you are frustrated by consuming 10 curing potions and having nothing to show for it, I rather wanted Kronos to sneak forward, rage and try to grapple, but your tactics insisted on the shootout. For your convenience I have added the Grand Hall map with indicated in blue and yellow the positions that Anya would have no cover from Kronos attacks when she was standing respectively against the northern or the eastern statues. As you can see there are very few spaces where she doesn't have cover, and following your tactics would mean Kronos moving back and forth between the yellow and blue sections, and Anya readying to move 10 ft. to cover again when Kronos almost reaches the other section, effectively still not enabling him to shoot her without cover. Unless you got closer, it's simply not possible to remove cover by moving. Here's my problem with that response. First and foremost...nowhere in Anya's tactics does it mention anything close to "readying an action to move 10 ft to cover again when Kronos almost reaches the other section." That is pure improv on your part, and quite frankly I feel that goes way beyond needed improvisation. Secondly and more importantly, You cannot ready to dodge an incomming attack. ...that type of action would seem to be in direct conflict with this portion of the rules on ready actions. Moving to cover after I have reached said range and maybe had the opportunity to fire a shot is perfectly acceptable, and also perfectly reasonable. But readying to do so is not. Also, the idea behind moving and firing, as opposed to firing behind cover, is to not only try and negate any cover on my opponents part, but to also take away the penalty that being behind cover would give me for firing. A +4 AC for her cover, and then a -4 penalty for the cover I am behind effectly causes me to need to score a critical just to hit (or close to it). Yes, moving around makes me more vulnerable, but I felt that the extra -4 penalty was too much to take, and that is why I wrote my tactics the way I did. All I ever ask of any pitlord is that my tactics be followed....even if they are losing tactics.
Usurpator 11-21-05, 11:58 AM	Not necessarilly. If he stays in range (30 ft) you would know he was there, but you would also need to take a move action to pinpoint where he is. Since you wanted to run away... What I meant to say was: 1. Tezca is running away: 160 ft. move. Swarm follows: 160 ft. move. Balbanes has only one move action (needs his standard action to keep up the concentration) and thus cannot follow to within 30 ft. 2. Tezca is unable to make a 160 ft. run somehow: Balbanes should be within 30 ft. and thus vulnerable to shooting. Never mentioned this, because I didn't think 2 would come up, only 1. But somehow you have Balbanes remain within 30 ft. after his move, I have no idea how.... Point. In the end, does it make much of a difference though? The swarm can't damage you at any rate and Balbanes isn't doing much. Indeed, he was rather unlucky with not rolling a 6, but once again, I didn't want to rely on luck to win, therefore the running contingency. All the same, you might have mentioned it somewhere in your tactics. I PM'ed King Uther only after the first version was extended. Obivously I considered many possible options for Balbanes to win, but Summon Swarm wasn't high on my list (for obvious reasons as you noticed). I think pointing out the effect of tactics that your opponent might use is overdoing it. Besides, sending you clarifications might be construed as adding additional tactics afterward, so I couldn't send you it after this fight. Going off of what is currenlty there, then it turns into a ranged battle. Since it would have ended a few rounds earlier, I guess I'll need to do a re-run. What I am seeing is Balbanes not finding Tezca at the start of the match, and Tezca not seeing Balbanes. Tezca will wait, Balbanes will fly around looking for Tezca (after all, he only heard Tezca within 20 ft. and Tezca might have moved into the central stack or somewhere else). 10 rounds of non-interaction will pass, at which point the crowd/judges will intervene and point out each gladiator's location to the other. With their help Balbanes will fly towards Tezca, and try to cast summon swarm, while Tezca will shoot at Balbanes with his bow (also seeing him clearly thanks to the judges), and then break LOS and rehide. Most probably, Tezca can shoot before Balbanes can get within 30 ft. and finishes casting the swarm. Since Tezca has had his meaningful interaction with Balbanes after his shot, he is not longer in violation and should break LOS an rehide as pe tactics. Then repeat from above once more, and then Balbanes invisibility will run out. From that moment on Tezca can snipe at Balbanes freely, until Balbanes finds a place where Tezca cannot target him. Then another 10 rounds non-engagement will pass. Tezca will be pinpointed once more and Balbanes will try his acid arrow + secondary tactics. Then repeat from above until his fly runs out. Should his acid arrow hit, Tezca will be forced into animal form, and then the grapple tactics will come into play. The majority of the changes (certainly seeing the rolls) will be in Tezca's advantage, and he has already won in the current version. I am just not seeing how King Uther thought Balbanes could win unless he gets freaky good rolls all around and Tezca gets all terrible rolls. With Balbanes tactics vs. Tezca's tactics, I think Tezca will win 9 out of 10 engagements. The summon swarm just doesn't work, his secondary tactics are defeated easily by the snipe and/or charge+pounce+grapple. Just not seeing it....
Usurpator 11-21-05, 12:35 PM	Here's my problem with that response. First and foremost...nowhere in Anya's tactics does it mention anything close to "readying an action to move 10 ft to cover again when Kronos almost reaches the other section." That is pure improv on your part, and quite frankly I feel that goes way beyond needed improvisation. Secondly and more importantly, ...that type of action would seem to be in direct conflict with this portion of the rules on ready actions. Moving to cover after I have reached said range and maybe had the opportunity to fire a shot is perfectly acceptable, and also perfectly reasonable. But readying to do so is not. A. Anya prefers cover, it says so in her tactics. B. She does not ready against an attack, she readies on movement. It is reasonable to do so, but I agree with you that it would be a gray area of Pitlord improvisation. But so would Kronos running around the whole arena trying to reach a spot where she would not have cover. One improvisation deserves another. C. Even without the readying, you would only have one shot against many of hers, this time not at +4 AC, but at -2 from range. D. She might even change position before you reach your 'zone' just to get a good shot at you, further invalidating that tactic. Kronos would have to ready to shoot to foil that option the entire way.... (another improvisation) Also, the idea behind moving and firing, as opposed to firing behind cover, is to not only try and negate any cover on my opponents part, but to also take away the penalty that being behind cover would give me for firing. A +4 AC for her cover, and then a -4 penalty for the cover I am behind effectly causes me to need to score a critical just to hit (or close to it). Yes, moving around makes me more vulnerable, but I felt that the extra -4 penalty was too much to take, and that is why I wrote my tactics the way I did. All I ever ask of any pitlord is that my tactics be followed....even if they are losing tactics. A. I never gave you a -4 penalty to hit for being behind cover. B. Anya has AC 22, AC 26 with cover, AC 30 with improved cover. In this scenario you needed an 18+ while she was shooting you, a 20+ while she was refocusing. C. You had no specific tactic written for a shoot-out. "Just move and shoot" is insufficient and gives the Pitlord enough leeway to improvise. If you had a particular idea behind it (like removing cover) just say so in your tactics. The only thing that is currently apparent from your tactics is that you are moving because you don't want to end up in melee. D. I was furthermore guessing that the intention behind the 65 ft. was to prevent Anya from doing a move and the manifesting an energy ray at you. I only follow stupid tactics if they are spelled out literally, and there were no stupid tactics literally spelled out, and certainly nothing about 'removing cover'. Even if gladiators have stupid literal tactics I give them a chance to realize that they are acting stupidly and have them think of a reasonable alternative. If you want Kronos to fight stupidly, just say so in your tactics. If you want Kronos not to use too much expandables, just say so. If you want to remove cover by moving, just say so. A win would have netted you an extra 1200 gp., more than enough to compensate for the potions. You needed only one more shot, with some chances at an 18+ and several other at 20+. You had a fair chance. Really, I don't know why you are arguing over this? Are you dissatisfied because of the expendables used, or because you lost? I showed you that the tactics you proposed in your intitial complaint were ineffective. Next you argue that I should follow your tactics literally, even if they are stupid. But the tactics you proposed in your initial complaint are not found in your earlier tactics, certainly not literally, so that argument has no basis as well. What do you desire from me as your Pitlord? I can tell you that *I* was frustrated because in the last bit of the fight neither gladiator's tactics offered me any options but going for a very lengthy shoot-out. I was itching for Anya to use Biofeedback from her pp., or for Kronos to approach under Total Defense and grapple Anya, but that wouldn't be fair to both, sot I ran it as a straigth shoot-out.
Luni 11-21-05, 12:41 PM	Arg, Zassl's opponents' tactics are up. And ... did that eagle always have this broach of shielding? I hope I realize my mistake after the first shot ... thought I first have to distinguish the real were-eagle... At least the eagles could be fooled by my disguise self, right? As expected, Yoriko and Imperi say: Hit the small one first. Good luck nightbanegood. :) Yes the brooch has always been there. As for hitting Zassl first, Zasll is the only one who can bypass DR easily.
TheMagister 11-21-05, 01:07 PM	The fight Sdentch vs Aquin has been posted here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7792025&postcount=659)! Sdentch has been very lucky with the rolls, sorry Telin. If there are any concerns, please tell me. I enjoyed the fight, thanks, Pittbull! @Telin - Booya! @Pittbull - Some things that need to be mentioned and DON'T need to be corrected: 1)Sdentch gets two grapple checks per round due to her BAB of +6/+1. You only gave her one while she was grappling. 2)Aquin only gets three talon/claw attacks (not including rakes) while he's grappling due to the shield he's carrying; it's a move action to loose a shield, which is not allowed in a grapple (even with a successful grapple check). Thanks! TM
Luni 11-21-05, 01:12 PM	Perius vs Dr. Funk is up here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7807156&postcount=674) @Ravashack: Apparently I'm blind. I found your first set of tactics.
Ravashack 11-21-05, 01:42 PM	Perius vs Dr. Funk is up here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7807156&postcount=674) @Ravashack: Apparently I'm blind. I found your first set of tactics. ^_^ As long as it gets run, I'm happy.
NiQil 11-21-05, 03:00 PM	Since it has become such a rare occurrance for this to happen to me, I just wanted to take a moment to thank my pitlords (Macbrea, Snommelp, Usurpator, Maraxus) this week for getting my fights done in a timely fashion. It's nice not to have to sit here waiting to see if I will have yet another fight go past deadline for a change.
One_Winged_Angel 11-21-05, 03:07 PM	What I meant to say was: 1. Tezca is running away: 160 ft. move. Swarm follows: 160 ft. move. Balbanes has only one move action (needs his standard action to keep up the concentration) and thus cannot follow to within 30 ft. 2. Tezca is unable to make a 160 ft. run somehow: Balbanes should be within 30 ft. and thus vulnerable to shooting. Never mentioned this, because I didn't think 2 would come up, only 1. But somehow you have Balbanes remain within 30 ft. after his move, I have no idea how.... I was having you double move and then hide. That is what I assumed you wanted from your tactics. The bats with blindsense...if you had wanted to 4x move, I can incorporate that as well, but a general thing you should remember is that there is barely 160 ft to run in the arena in a straight line. Indeed, he was rather unlucky with not rolling a 6, but once again, I didn't want to rely on luck to win, therefore the running contingency. 18 rounds, no 6. I'm pretty sure you're set. I PM'ed King Uther only after the first version was extended. Obivously I considered many possible options for Balbanes to win, but Summon Swarm wasn't high on my list (for obvious reasons as you noticed). I think pointing out the effect of tactics that your opponent might use is overdoing it. Besides, sending you clarifications might be construed as adding additional tactics afterward, so I couldn't send you it after this fight. Heh. Naw. It just took me a while (5 rounds, to be exact) to remember that lycanthropes have DR. Just a bit of time wasted was all. What I am seeing is Balbanes not finding Tezca at the start of the match, and Tezca not seeing Balbanes. Tezca will wait, Balbanes will fly around looking for Tezca (after all, he only heard Tezca within 20 ft. and Tezca might have moved into the central stack or somewhere else). 10 rounds of non-interaction will pass, at which point the crowd/judges will intervene and point out each gladiator's location to the other. With their help Balbanes will fly towards Tezca, and try to cast summon swarm, while Tezca will shoot at Balbanes with his bow (also seeing him clearly thanks to the judges), and then break LOS and rehide. This is mainly my idea as well. Most probably, Tezca can shoot before Balbanes can get within 30 ft. and finishes casting the swarm. Since Tezca has had his meaningful interaction with Balbanes after his shot, he is not longer in violation and should break LOS an rehide as pe tactics. Then repeat from above once more, and then Balbanes invisibility will run out. From that moment on Tezca can snipe at Balbanes freely, until Balbanes finds a place where Tezca cannot target him. Then another 10 rounds non-engagement will pass. Tezca will be pinpointed once more and Balbanes will try his acid arrow + secondary tactics. Then repeat from above until his fly runs out. Should his acid arrow hit, Tezca will be forced into animal form, and then the grapple tactics will come into play. How closely have you read control shape? You need to lose a good 8 HP before making a check. Not surefire since the acid arrow is 2d4 a round, so average 2 rounds before the check. The majority of the changes (certainly seeing the rolls) will be in Tezca's advantage, and he has already won in the current version. I am just not seeing how King Uther thought Balbanes could win unless he gets freaky good rolls all around and Tezca gets all terrible rolls. With Balbanes tactics vs. Tezca's tactics, I think Tezca will win 9 out of 10 engagements. The summon swarm just doesn't work, his secondary tactics are defeated easily by the snipe and/or charge+pounce+grapple. Just not seeing it.... I'll re-roll offline and see how much honestly changes. I do need to post expendatures, so I'll get on it after the re-run.
TelinArtho 11-21-05, 03:13 PM	Anyone? Please? I'll take it Snommelp - I'll PM you as well in case you miss this.
Ayrynthyn 11-21-05, 03:19 PM	wow... this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7804570&postcount=673) went much better than i ever could have imagined. thanks again ToK and to my opponent. I do have 2 quick questions. In rnd 3, i (just) strike Tan with an Alchemist Fire with a 15 (his touch AC). By the look of the diagram, i'm 20 ft away. Should i have been assessed a -2 for Range (range of 10 on the alchmist fire)? Granted on the previous move, i could have moved withing 10' of his position making this quasi moot... just want to be sure, as this could affect the outcome. Either way... yikes them dice were hot!! Second. What's the rule on editing your character? now that my battle has been posted, am i clear to edit my sheet or is there a specific time/day that i have to wait for which i missed in my review of the rules thread? (i have some formatting, and fluffy stuff that im looking to add/change).
Snommelp 11-21-05, 03:20 PM	I'll take it Snommelp - I'll PM you as well in case you miss this. Thanks, Telin. PMing them now. Pitlords: Snommelp -2 credits TelinArtho +2 credits
TelinArtho 11-21-05, 03:23 PM	wow... this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7804570&postcount=673) went much better than i ever could have imagined. thanks again ToK and to my opponent. I do have 2 quick questions. In rnd 3, i (just) strike Tan with an Alchemist Fire with a 15 (his touch AC). By the look of the diagram, i'm 20 ft away. Should i have been assessed a -2 for Range (range of 10 on the alchmist fire)? Granted on the previous move, i could have moved withing 10' of his position making this quasi moot... just want to be sure, as this could affect the outcome. Either way... yikes them dice were hot!! Second. What's the rule on editing your character? now that my battle has been posted, am i clear to edit my sheet or is there a specific time/day that i have to wait for which i missed in my review of the rules thread? (i have some formatting, and fluffy stuff that im looking to add/change). Now that your fight has been posted, you can make changes. That's the time when you can make changes. If the characters and tactics have been posted, but the fight hasn't quite yet -- its a finer line - but as long as the fight has been - you are free to edit. Do realize though that if the result of the fight changes, you have to undo those edits sometimes.
Ayrynthyn 11-21-05, 03:33 PM	Yeah... i figured as much on the "if the outcome changes", im just looking to toss some background in there, and hit some "streamlineing initiative" formatting issues i missed. Appreciate the feedback...
Maraxus 11-21-05, 03:43 PM	Karisia vs Lissa Longfellow is up. I hope you don't ask for much corections. ... And now I really want to know, what happened to Zassl and Noko this week. :)
MysticMonk2005 11-21-05, 03:57 PM	Good fight! A psion trying to out shoot an archer build, very fun.
Ravashack 11-21-05, 04:07 PM	Oh yeah, Luni, it doesn't matter in this case, but Perius's attack bonus when attacking Vivi was +11 :) +3 BAB, +2 Dex, +2 Bolts +2, +2 Insight from Offensive Precognition, +1 from Point Blank Shot and +1 Morale from Surging Euphoria. I guess I should add in descriptions of the class abilities when I have the time. ^_^
SauroGrenom 11-21-05, 04:28 PM	Begferdeth and Iced, Iced asked for and I have begun to provide an Audit of Validi. The news is sobering. I've sent a PM to Iced about it, and I will send a copy to Begferdeth that gives a prelude to the still incomplete Audit. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Sauro
Usurpator 11-21-05, 04:54 PM	@ Usurpator Would you change the fight results so that Anya isn't marked as using a powerstone of precog since she was supposed to have manifested it from memeory (and because she doesn't have said powerstone). I'd really hate to get jailed by NiQil or Telin over this later when they get round to auditing her. Also, I think you missed the powerstone of detect hostile intent. I edited the fight to account for the expendables.
One_Winged_Angel 11-21-05, 06:02 PM	Balbanes vs. Tezca is fixed. Note: Complain at your own risk.
Usurpator 11-21-05, 06:23 PM	Balbanes vs. Tezca is fixed. Note: Complain at your own risk. Thanks for editing it, that was like running two fight for the price of one! Too bad you failed your save versus boredom in round 38, you almost rolled a 20 though. ;) It seems okay, the only question I have is what happened to Balbanes invisibility? I am seeing miss chances, but is that from invisibility or entropic shield?
One_Winged_Angel 11-21-05, 06:46 PM	Thanks for editing it, that was like running two fight for the price of one! Too bad you failed your save versus boredom in round 38, you almost rolled a 20 though. ;) It seems okay, the only question I have is what happened to Balbanes invisibility? I am seeing miss chances, but is that from invisibility or entropic shield? I made the Miss chace vs. Invis, although I probably could have ignored that. As to what happened to it...a bored druid cast fairy fire and outlined him in neon pink. :cool:
NiQil 11-21-05, 07:18 PM	@ Cat Regarding the Ajora vs Zeno fight... Are you, in fact, allowing the purchase of powerstoring arrows? I want this explicitly answered, because the spellstoring/powerstoring enchantments are not listed as being available to ranged weapons/ammunition. They are only listed on the melee weapons charts. Are we allowing credit expenditures to now specifically break this rule?
Luni 11-21-05, 07:23 PM	Karisia vs Lissa Longfellow is up. I hope you don't ask for much corections. ... And now I really want to know, what happened to Zassl and Noko this week. :) I never even noticed Cat matched her up. It says OCT 16 on the header, and I never even had to pay a credit for it. :)
Begferdeth 11-21-05, 10:21 PM	Well, now that it looks like Validi is heading for the prison (sorry about the math problems there, but theres a reason why all my guys have 1 spell/stone :P ) What are we going to do about it? Just give Raskos a win? Im thinking that might be the fairest all around, if there are that many mistakes, and actually let Raskos get ready by tomorrow. Im not going to be able to read this audit/get new Validi+Raskos tactics and rerun this thing by then.
nightbanegod 11-21-05, 10:24 PM	ive been running the FFA but i have run out of time tonight as i have a job interview tomarrow that i MUST prepare for. FFA WITH TACTICS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7790883&postcount=658) here for taking
Mind Rogue 11-21-05, 11:24 PM	I have only a few rounds of Ashhur vs Noko up, but the match is at an impasse. Ashhur cannot hurt Noko because of her being able to fly, be invisibile, and have damage reduction at the same time, and Noko cannot possibly hurt Ashhur as he hides behind his shield. And yet, I can't call the match a draw... but I'll have to unless someone comes up with some bright ideas.
NiQil 11-21-05, 11:37 PM	I have only a few rounds of Ashhur vs Noko up, but the match is at an impasse. Ashhur cannot hurt Noko because of her being able to fly, be invisibile, and have damage reduction at the same time, and Noko cannot possibly hurt Ashhur as he hides behind his shield. And yet, I can't call the match a draw... but I'll have to unless someone comes up with some bright ideas. Just a thought....but unless fly, invisibility and damage reduction are all being produced by means other than spells/powers, eventually they will run out, due to durations expiring. I have no idea about the fight or the characters, so I don't know if this helps. Even spell like abilities usually have a duration. And there is always the 10 round rule causing crowd interaction as well.
Tellish_of_Ket 11-21-05, 11:40 PM	wow... this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7804570&postcount=673) went much better than i ever could have imagined. thanks again ToK and to my opponent. I do have 2 quick questions. In rnd 3, i (just) strike Tan with an Alchemist Fire with a 15 (his touch AC). By the look of the diagram, i'm 20 ft away. Should i have been assessed a -2 for Range (range of 10 on the alchmist fire)? Granted on the previous move, i could have moved withing 10' of his position making this quasi moot... just want to be sure, as this could affect the outcome. Either way... yikes them dice were hot!! Second. What's the rule on editing your character? now that my battle has been posted, am i clear to edit my sheet or is there a specific time/day that i have to wait for which i missed in my review of the rules thread? (i have some formatting, and fluffy stuff that im looking to add/change). I did assess the -2 to your to hit rolls for range. I believe you were never more than 10' from him at all times, thus the -2. Normally you'd have +5 to hit, and as you can see, i used +3. -ToK
Ayrynthyn 11-22-05, 12:02 AM	:thinks: Ahh... :blush: +5... +3 i see that now. (i should have known that right?? ;)) Beautiful. Excellent. Thanks. *wanders off to buy more goodies*
SauroGrenom 11-22-05, 12:04 AM	Well, now that it looks like Validi is heading for the prison (sorry about the math problems there, but theres a reason why all my guys have 1 spell/stone :P ) What are we going to do about it? Just give Raskos a win? Im thinking that might be the fairest all around, if there are that many mistakes, and actually let Raskos get ready by tomorrow. Im not going to be able to read this audit/get new Validi+Raskos tactics and rerun this thing by then. The Audit (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7811455&postcount=654) is complete. The final story is very unfortunate all around. Validi is in dire streights. I've advised that Iced contact Cat about how to best handle bringing the character into good graces. In the end his character is over spent by 5975gp and realy all because of what must be a simple and minor oversight applied multiple times. I hope that the final end is resolved in a way that is considered to be OK by all parties. I'm not very happy to imprison my fellow member of the PSI consortium. I'm somewhat conflicted about how to best handle the situation. I realy would like for Raskos to win this fight for obvious reasons, and I'd be willing to conced the match just becasue I want to help Validi out with the winnings that may set Validi on the track to recovery. The outcome of the fight realy hinges on the number and type of expendibles that are available, because we have reasonably matched tactics and luck with the dice. I would realy appreciate it if a higher power(ie Cat or pitlord) would make the decision because as guildmaster for PSI this fight has realy got me in a conflicted position where two members are fighting eachother and this Audit practically cripples one of them. Sauro
Ayrynthyn 11-22-05, 12:11 AM	double post...
TelinArtho 11-22-05, 12:14 AM	I am still working on the hunter fight. It is just getting interesting - but it will be up first thing tomorrow (for me - so 9am Eastern US time ish)
Book5 11-22-05, 12:49 AM	wow... this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7804570&postcount=673) went much better than i ever could have imagined. thanks again ToK and to my opponent. I do have 2 quick questions. In rnd 3, i (just) strike Tan with an Alchemist Fire with a 15 (his touch AC). By the look of the diagram, i'm 20 ft away. Should i have been assessed a -2 for Range (range of 10 on the alchmist fire)? Granted on the previous move, i could have moved withing 10' of his position making this quasi moot... just want to be sure, as this could affect the outcome. Either way... yikes them dice were hot!! No need to adjust - I dont think its gonna shift anything. three words Amulet. Deflect. Arrows. - Thats two ranged rundowns in a row. Man... Tan spends most of his time in fights drinking... :P @Sauro & Vath - Will correct the locations, but with the rolls as is - there is no need to oppose/check anything to take the crossbow : as vath said you had it "holstered" for combat : easy access. And you have no action ability so... - The spot checks stand and fail. - I will add the listen checks for spells but thats about it I think. - I think I am going to try and use a map to track movement this next week, I keep thinking I have the grid coordinates correct and then It looks different when I draw it or the numbers end up obviously misswritten.
Huan 11-22-05, 01:14 AM	Bare-bones of Barthleby vs Tatyana (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7812759&postcount=682) is up. Short Version: This was a complicated one to run, as one gladiator did not plan for one factor at all, which ended up being a significant, winning factor. Bare-bones of Harvester vs Donak (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7812778&postcount=683) is also up. Short Version: A first-strike kill sort of fight...
Luni 11-22-05, 01:20 AM	I have only a few rounds of Ashhur vs Noko up, but the match is at an impasse. Ashhur cannot hurt Noko because of her being able to fly, be invisibile, and have damage reduction at the same time, and Noko cannot possibly hurt Ashhur as he hides behind his shield. And yet, I can't call the match a draw... but I'll have to unless someone comes up with some bright ideas. The easiest way to do it, is to just apply Ashhur's Tower Shield as a +4 Shield bonus to AC instead of Total Cover. So Noko will be making attack rolls vs AC 28. Ashhûr will still cocllect the arrows and ignore the illusionary pixie. :) AC: 10 [Base] + 8 [Armour] + 2 [Dex] +4 [Shield] +4 [Prone]. And Noko has a +10 to hit +1 from Point Blank Shot.
Sindorin 11-22-05, 01:22 AM	Did Luni and Gonbow ever get tactics for my two characters? Or am I just impatient...
Luni 11-22-05, 01:29 AM	Did Luni and Gonbow ever get tactics for my two characters? Or am I just impatient... I got them. Just starting the fight now.
SauroGrenom 11-22-05, 01:34 AM	@Sauro & Vath - Will correct the locations, but with the rolls as is - there is no need to oppose/check anything to take the crossbow : as vath said you had it "holstered" for combat : easy access. And you have no action ability so... - The spot checks stand and fail. - I will add the listen checks for spells but thats about it I think. - I think I am going to try and use a map to track movement this next week, I keep thinking I have the grid coordinates correct and then It looks different when I draw it or the numbers end up obviously misswritten. I'm going to concede the fight, I've PM Vath about it because we didn't think you would be able to edit the fight in time. Let me address each of your comments as they come. First the opposed check does not require an action by Rebreg. Opposing a disarm is done on the other person's turn where Rebreg could never take actions without a ready action prepaired. If Rebreg were to grapple the gnome it wouldn't use up one of the gnomes actions period. Just because Rebreg is stunned does not mean he is helpless, and I do not think that he would be unable to resist a disarm, trip, sunder or grapple check. As an addition to this topic it is clear by careful reading of the grap an item section of the SRD that there are loosly secured objects, normaly secured objects and securely held objects. In my opinion a crossbow or any other holstered item would qualify as a normaly secured object, but this is my opinion. Next there is no spot check in the 6th round when Auburn comes into range to attack Rebreg. There should be one, but since the crafty gnome is not "flying" in the air Rebreg would be unlikely to notice that the gnome was under a fly spell even if he spots the gnome. He should probally get a sense motive check against Auburn's bluff check to make the deception work. If the deception fails, Rebreg drinks the potion before Aubrun gets into range and the fight changes, but that is besides the point because I've conceded the fight. Let me be clear though that I think this fight was not lost to Rebreg due to unlucky roles, but because Book5 chose to use his superior movement and spot abilities in a way that negated the two major advantages of the monk. Book5 has Rebreg doing nothing for 2 of the first 6 rounds where Rebreg has LOS into probably 90% of the Arena by the end of the 2nd round but Rebreg continues to re-search areas he has already seen and block his LOS into most of the Arena while he does it. Rebreg had initiative and LOS to his opponent in the first round and should have been able to achieve it in some later round when he fails the spot check due to distance. The locations you chose to move Rebreg made it very easy for his opponent to move freely and I'm not happy with it at all. Also there are a few of Auburn's moves(round4) that are impossibly long for the actions that Auburn takes. Rebreg lost this battle on idiotic tactical movement not on unlucky rolls. As a side note it is a very good idea to have a print out of the arena in front of you when you run fights. I do that and I find it helps incredibly. It will save you the work of editing your fights and save your players the work of pointing out all the copious and egregious errors.
Maraxus 11-22-05, 01:38 AM	I agree, that the shield should only give +4 AC, it can't give full cover against the whole battlefield, only half of it. In that case, Noko would have to fly very low but if this is necessary, she will do. Luni: Dam, I wanted to pick the misses up again. :) - Never again I will think "40 arrows are 80d6 damage, this should be enough." Notice, that uncanny dodge does not prevent the +2 to attack for being invisible. So with that one and point blank shot, Noko's attack bonus is +13. Now, show that dwarf my 40 arrows. (Average 10 hits ... 10d6+10 equal 45 damage ... average 0.5 criticals add another 4.5 ... Well, after all arrows fly arround, pick up stons and use them as improvised weapons ... for hours. ;) Either that or call it a draw.)
Sindorin 11-22-05, 02:11 AM	I got them. Just starting the fight now. Oh okay. I only ask because I have had weekends where I send tactics early and then they never get to the pitlord, making me look silly when i ask where my fights are. Cool Cool.
Book5 11-22-05, 02:54 AM	I'm going to concede the fight, I... Rebreg lost this battle on idiotic tactical movement not on unlucky rolls. As a side note it is a very good idea to have a print out of the arena in front of you when you run fights. I do that and I find it helps incredibly. It will save you the work of editing your fights and save your players the work of pointing out all the copious and egregious errors. I've added the correct positons - as in the ones I was thinking of. I have no problems staring at a computer screen all day but sometimes the numbers bounce around on me. I think the tactics you two stated were run correctly - and are now correctly indicated by the coordinates. Thanks vath. Vath said stay behind the pillars and you said use run moves to base him cause you spected him to be in the air and using a summons. Eventually he would come at you. I have you stop in the 8th round to wait for that to happen... cause you cant find him, honestly I would say that you (assuming you fail your bluff - which I will toss right now well that was expected (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=193968). I consider this a reasonable execution of tactics given. Vath predicted your tactics exactly - your spot and listen failed on the first round regardless of no hides. @all - I have a question. This relates to my character moreso than Auburn, but it came up in her fight so, There is no "keeping" what you take in the arena right? You cant steal a flaming crossbow and then have the arena replace the "destroyed" one to the original owner and let the victor keep the booty. Its an experience/reward (total coco) thing - I just think it would be neat... and profitable to thieves like Tan! ;) I challenged him so I could steal his belt... what? they gave him a new one! ... Its a nice belt!
Luni 11-22-05, 03:01 AM	I agree, that the shield should only give +4 AC, it can't give full cover against the whole battlefield, only half of it. In that case, Noko would have to fly very low but if this is necessary, she will do. Luni: Dam, I wanted to pick the misses up again. :) - Never again I will think "40 arrows are 80d6 damage, this should be enough." Notice, that uncanny dodge does not prevent the +2 to attack for being invisible. So with that one and point blank shot, Noko's attack bonus is +13. Now, show that dwarf my 40 arrows. (Average 10 hits ... 10d6+10 equal 45 damage ... average 0.5 criticals add another 4.5 ... Well, after all arrows fly arround, pick up stons and use them as improvised weapons ... for hours. ;) Either that or call it a draw.) IF you start dropping stones, I want to toss my Cold Iron Warhammer at -10 to hit 50% concealment and I'll use the ready action to throw where the pebbles come from. I'll hit eventually, or Ashhûr gets buried alive. I forgot about the +2 to hit for being invisible.
Luni 11-22-05, 03:02 AM	Va'ria vs Dameon is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7813199&postcount=684) Short breakdown: The snipee gets to close to the sniper.
Book5 11-22-05, 03:12 AM	and one more thing http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=193984 Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as crossbows. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item. You can use a disarm action to snatch an item worn by the target. If you want to have the item in your hand, the disarm must be made as an unarmed attack. If the item is poorly secured or otherwise easy to snatch or cut away the attacker gets a +4 bonus. Unlike on a normal disarm attempt, failing the attempt doesn’t allow the defender to attempt to disarm you. This otherwise functions identically to a disarm attempt, as noted above. And while you would if you could you cant AoO. - Blind and stunned, then stunned as she moves out of Rebreg's (temporarily) non-threatened area.
Tellish_of_Ket 11-22-05, 04:11 AM	There is no "keeping" what you take in the arena right? You cant steal a flaming crossbow and then have the arena replace the "destroyed" one to the original owner and let the victor keep the booty. Its an experience/reward (total coco) thing - I just think it would be neat... and profitable to thieves like Tan! ;) I challenged him so I could steal his belt... what? they gave him a new one! ... Its a nice belt! You cannot keep what you steal, but you most certainly can use it...and it would count against their expendables. But it does have limits. You can't rob a character while he's unconcious, bleeding out, paralyzed, helpless, etc... If you are invisible, and you use sleight of hand to steal a potion bottle from your opponent and you drink it, it's gone. You still cannot keep it after the fight if you do not drink it though. -ToK
Maraxus 11-22-05, 04:26 AM	If you are invisible, and you use sleight of hand to steal a potion bottle from your opponent and you drink it, it's gone. You still cannot keep it after the fight if you do not drink it though. -ToK Yes, I remember this discussion ... what was it, does your opponent get that item refounded (like sundered weapons etc.)?
MystErikEry 11-22-05, 04:27 AM	I totally have to make a Halfling Rogue (high Move Silently and Sleight of Hand) build whose sole purpose is to use Sleight of Hand every round he can in order to steal the person's entire Potion store for himself. He might not win all that often, but he'd be really irritating to others. :D Ohohoho, I'm totally going to make this guy. The trouble is, I'd either have to go with Cleric 3 to start with Invisibility (and thus end up with crappy Sleight of Hand checks, and lose out on the benefit of Rogue at first-level), or go with Rogue 1/Cleric 2, which means I wouldn't have access to Invisibility until level 4 anyway and them I'm losing out on roguish benefits... or just go with pure Rogue, and stick with UMD and potion use :P
Book5 11-22-05, 05:48 AM	If you are invisible, and you use sleight of hand to steal a potion bottle from your opponent and you drink it, it's gone. You still cannot keep it after the fight if you do not drink it though. -ToK Wait really? ouch, oh well. Its staying part of my tactics. I'll feel bad though.
Vathelokai 11-22-05, 06:55 AM	I totally have to make a Halfling Rogue (high Move Silently and Sleight of Hand) build whose sole purpose is to use Sleight of Hand every round he can in order to steal the person's entire Potion store for himself. He might not win all that often, but he'd be really irritating to others. :D Ohohoho, I'm totally going to make this guy. The trouble is, I'd either have to go with Cleric 3 to start with Invisibility (and thus end up with crappy Sleight of Hand checks, and lose out on the benefit of Rogue at first-level), or go with Rogue 1/Cleric 2, which means I wouldn't have access to Invisibility until level 4 anyway and them I'm losing out on roguish benefits... or just go with pure Rogue, and stick with UMD and potion use :P How about cleric1 (magic and trickery)/rogue2. You can use almost every type of wand and scroll, and get decent rogue skills. You have to focus really hard to make UMD pay off at low levels.
TheMagister 11-22-05, 07:47 AM	I agree, that the shield should only give +4 AC, it can't give full cover against the whole battlefield, only half of it. In that case, Noko would have to fly very low but if this is necessary, she will do. Maraxus is right (sort of). Tower shields are pretty much portable cover. I remember reading that to use a Tower shield as cover, the wielder had to pick a side of his square for the shield to be on (picture a 3-d square: 6 possible sides including the ground). Just like with real cover, the attacker then picked a corner of his square. If any line drawn from that corner to ANY corner in the wielder's square passed through the side of the square currently occupied by the tower shield, then the wielder had total cover from that opponent. In this case, Ashhur lies prone and then picks the top line of his square for the tower shield to occupy. If you can visualize it, this would pretty much provide cover from any flying enemy that is more than 5 ft. off of the ground. Any enemy that is adjacent to Ashhur could get around the cover by picking a corner of their square that is close to the ground. Any enemy that is at range from Ashhur but still < 5 ft. high can bypass the total cover, but Ashhur would still gain a +2 AC mod for being prone, plus a +4 from the tower shield (not too shabby!). Pretty much, Ashhur could (staying in the spirit of his tactics) take a standard action to take total cover from his shield and a free action to drop prone. Then, he can ready an action every turn after that to adjust the position of the shield toward his opponent (IF HE CAN SEE/DETECT/PINPOINT HIM!). If the opponent is undetectable, then the ready won't go off, and it's just a matter of time before the attacker can out-maneuver the total cover and get off a shot/attack. I hope this helps! I'ma go look for that whole tower shield rules thing...Maybe its in Rules of the Game or in the FAQ or something... TM
Dracazar 11-22-05, 08:50 AM	Maeril (Usurpator) vs Torgirr Hammerstriker (TheMagister) [ECL4] is up
Dracazar 11-22-05, 09:51 AM	@Caterane I asked you to use tanglefoot bag on his horse. I had many opportunity to do it while skate up, please tell me why you didn't used it. Edit: on round 26 Zeno is still alive, DieHard feat!
TelinArtho 11-22-05, 10:12 AM	Aida vs Haizan vs Mektos vs Kitaya (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7814592) is up. Its a complicated fight - but I think it is all there. Let me know if there are any errors.
TheMagister 11-22-05, 10:21 AM	Maeril (Usurpator) vs Torgirr Hammerstriker (TheMagister) [ECL4] is up Well, I can't say it was run exactly the way I had hoped, but I can't argue with the criticals...they totally swung the fight my way. I had some gripes: Round 5: Maer draws a scroll while charged with shocking grasp = stupid, and not "played out" correctly. Either one of two things should happen in this situation: 1) Maeril dismisses shocking grasp (Std) and draws the scroll (Mov), or 2) Maeril draws the scroll (Mov) and the scroll takes 5d6 electricity damage and is probably destroyed. The shocking grasp doesn't just "go away" until it's discharged by Maeril casting Obscuring Mist. Check out the literature on Touch Spells in the PHB, Magic section. Round 5-11: How (logically) can a rider share the same space with his mount for all purposes and NOT be affected by an area effect spell that affects the mount? Further, how can that rider "assist" the mount to escape without subjecting himself to the spell as well? Round 11: You have Torgirr sheathe his bow (Mov) and draw the potion of Protection. Why? A bow is a two-handed weapon to use, but only uses one hand to hold. Torgirr could have drawn and drunk the potion in one round, there, and been free to attack in round 12. Many rounds: Maeril is flat-footed while in the mist since he can't see the incoming arrows. His AC should be 20 (10 + 4 (shield) + 4 (mage armor) + 2 (protection from chaos)). Round 13: Maeril's AC should be 20 vs. the incoming attack b/c he doens't know where it's coming from, and he should not be allowed to claim cover from his mount when he doesn't know the attack is coming. Maeril should be critted by that arrow. Round 14: I believe Maeril is prone on a soft-fall (I hit anyways, but it's important to know these things). Also, throwing axes are usable as melee weapons at no penalty (see description in PHB). Round 15: Maer casts a spell in a threatened area. He provokes an AoO from Torgirr, or should cast on the defensive. Round 16: Even using a 5' step, Snaggle provokes and AoO from Torgirr when he enters Torgirr's space to attack. All in all, that's the best fight that Torgirr's ever had. It's about time he got some of the dice mojo that he's been missing out on. It was well thought out and well run, with just a few mistakes (and some of them aren't really mistakes...they're just the way you as a DM see things working, and I'm cool with that [like the entangle only affecting up to 5' high when its a 40' spread, like a fireball]. I actually like that view, myself). Thanks for the run. TM
Macbrea 11-22-05, 10:32 AM	Aida vs Haizan vs Mektos vs Kitaya (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7814592) is up. Its a complicated fight - but I think it is all there. Let me know if there are any errors. Looks fine to me. I didn't expect to get very far vs the deflect arrow monk with shield spell up.
Mind Rogue 11-22-05, 10:45 AM	Ashhur vs Noko has been edited. Unfortunatly, the pixie should have brought some of the arrows that she left behind. A dagger might have been nice too.
Sunwolf 11-22-05, 10:45 AM	@Luni Re: Daemon vs Va'ria In round 11 and 12 Daemon takes damage from Magic Missles. He has the shield spell up till round 22 which negates Magic Missle damage altogether. Va'ria will notice this after her first shot...
TelinArtho 11-22-05, 10:55 AM	Looks like we're doing better this week than in previous ones. Here's the outstanding fights for the week: Level 5 Imperi (Luni) vs Zassl (Maraxus) vs Yoriko (Mind Rogue) vs Grik (Snommelp): Nihgtbanegod [All vs All] Greefe (Ribking) vs Aranor Haerdonin (Sindorin): Gonbow Nightbanegod already came forward and said he wouldn't be able to finish the fight. In a startling turn of events, I actually don't have time myself today to do it - so it someone wants to pick up the 2 credits - grab the sheets and tactics from Nightbanegod's post and do up the the fight. Haven't heard from Gonbow - but he seems to usually show up late. If tactics can be grabbed - someone should pick it up just in case. /d
Huan 11-22-05, 11:07 AM	Va'ria vs Dameon is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7813199&postcount=684) Short breakdown: The snipee gets to close to the sniper. Luni, a few things, if you would... First, thanks for catching the typo with my AA stone. Now, in Round 3 you only gave me +5 HP for the ML4 Vigor Powerstone instead of +20. In Round 6 I retrieved my bow from the ground (move action) and knelt (free action)... but what else? I still had a standard action left, which I might have used for a buff (Divine Favor from memory was next on my list in tactics) or readying an action to fire on sight. In Rounds 6/13, my damage with my bow during the Divine Mights is 1d8 + 8, not 1d8+6/7, so Va'ria should have 3 less HP. In Rounds 11 and 12 Va'ria casts Magic Missile on Dameon, but there is no way those can hit since Dameon has Shield active. In Rounds 11 and 12, Dameon drew/manifested stones of ML2 Vigor, but both times you gave him +5 HP rather than +10. With 41+ more HP discounted from the fight, I believe Dameon still has a fighting chance. If you could, please rerun. Thank you.
Dracazar 11-22-05, 11:16 AM	Round 5: Maer draws a scroll while charged with shocking grasp = stupid, and not "played out" correctly. Either one of two things should happen in this situation: 1) Maeril dismisses shocking grasp (Std) and draws the scroll (Mov), or 2) Maeril draws the scroll (Mov) and the scroll takes 5d6 electricity damage and is probably destroyed. The shocking grasp doesn't just "go away" until it's discharged by Maeril casting Obscuring Mist. Check out the literature on Touch Spells in the PHB, Magic section. I debated a lot on this thing. This is what PHB says If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Now I opted for an harmless dischard and a dissipate. Round 5-11: How (logically) can a rider share the same space with his mount for all purposes and NOT be affected by an area effect spell that affects the mount? Further, how can that rider "assist" the mount to escape without subjecting himself to the spell as well? Entagle says The DM may alter the effects of the spell somewhat, based on the nature of the entangling plants and it is a very powerful 1st level spell so I limit it a bit. Your reasonings are sharable, this is just the way I ruled it. Round 11: You have Torgirr sheathe his bow (Mov) and draw the potion of Protection. Why? A bow is a two-handed weapon to use, but only uses one hand to hold. Torgirr could have drawn and drunk the potion in one round, there, and been free to attack in round 12. You are right, my fault. Many rounds: Maeril is flat-footed while in the mist since he can't see the incoming arrows. His AC should be 20 (10 + 4 (shield) + 4 (mage armor) + 2 (protection from chaos)). I was in doubt about this because you don't attack directly Maeril (because he has total concealment) but you attack his square: You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. So I didn't give any bonus/penalty. Perhaps here I'm wrong. Round 13: Maeril's AC should be 20 vs. the incoming attack b/c he doens't know where it's coming from, and he should not be allowed to claim cover from his mount when he doesn't know the attack is coming. Maeril should be critted by that arrow. IMHO Flat-footed apply only at the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act, Maeril knows that Torg is near so I granted him dexterity bonus and cover. Perhaps here I'm wrong. Round 14: I believe Maeril is prone on a soft-fall (I hit anyways, but it's important to know these things). Also, throwing axes are usable as melee weapons at no penalty (see description in PHB). I think that a successfull soft-fall check let you not prone. Perhaps you are prone on a failed check. About throwing axes I throwed them for better attack modifier. Round 15: Maer casts a spell in a threatened area. He provokes an AoO from Torgirr, or should cast on the defensive. No he is 5' away (Torg moved 5' back to throw the axe). Round 16: Even using a 5' step, Snaggle provokes and AoO from Torgirr when he enters Torgirr's space to attack. I think you are right here but I was unable to find any reference about it All in all, that's the best fight that Torgirr's ever had. It's about time he got some of the dice mojo that he's been missing out on. Nice to hear :D It was well thought out and well run, with just a few mistakes (and some of them aren't really mistakes...they're just the way you as a DM see things working, and I'm cool with that [like the entangle only affecting up to 5' high when its a 40' spread, like a fireball]. I actually like that view, myself). Did you liked my formatting? and the maps? Any hints?
TelinArtho 11-22-05, 11:40 AM	@Dracazar: 1. Entangle - since the rider occupies the same squares as the mount - the rider is affected by the entangle as well. While you may feel it is a super-powerful spell - it is not advisable to nerf it because of your opinion - trust me - it will only cause problems. If you want it nerfed in such a way - get the CoCo to house rule it. 2. While TheMagister is saying "flat-footed" - what he really means is that his opponent cannot see the attack coming - so therefore does not have his dex bonus. This would apply even though he knows Torgirr is nearby. At the same time however, if he has set up behind cover - he does get this AC bonus (as long as Torgirr is attacking from that direction obviously).
Luni 11-22-05, 12:48 PM	Luni, a few things, if you would... First, thanks for catching the typo with my AA stone. Now, in Round 3 you only gave me +5 HP for the ML4 Vigor Powerstone instead of +20. In Round 6 I retrieved my bow from the ground (move action) and knelt (free action)... but what else? I still had a standard action left, which I might have used for a buff (Divine Favor from memory was next on my list in tactics) or readying an action to fire on sight. You already have LoS. But to snipe, you need a standard and move action. In Rounds 6/13, my damage with my bow during the Divine Mights is 1d8 + 8, not 1d8+6/7, so Va'ria should have 3 less HP. Oops. I forgot Charm raises your cha. :) In Rounds 11 and 12 Va'ria casts Magic Missile on Dameon, but there is no way those can hit since Dameon has Shield active. In Rounds 11 and 12, Dameon drew/manifested stones of ML2 Vigor, but both times you gave him +5 HP rather than +10. With 41+ more HP discounted from the fight, I believe Dameon still has a fighting chance. If you could, please rerun. Thank you. You should list which stones you have augmented then, Huan, just so you can be like everyone else. AS for Magic Missile and shield, ooops. Edit: When does the stream lining effect actually become official?
Luni 11-22-05, 01:12 PM	@Huan and Sindorin: Fight reran with the change in Vigor [It is priced as if it is augmented], and Dameon is the winner due to less rounds spent healing.
Sindorin 11-22-05, 01:17 PM	why me
Huan 11-22-05, 01:24 PM	You should list which stones you have augmented then, Huan, just so you can be like everyone else. Touche. Fine, fine, I'll label it now. *grumble* conformity... :P @Sindorin Sorry for the loss, but it was a good fight. When you were running circles around me and sniping was no-go, I was really worried. Good luck for next time, friend.
Caterane 11-22-05, 01:28 PM	@Caterane I asked you to use tanglefoot bag on his horse. I had many opportunity to do it while skate up, please tell me why you didn't used it. Edit: on round 26 Zeno is still alive, DieHard feat! There was no opportunity to throw it. He has speed 60, you 55. That means: he rides away 120 feet and you can only close to 55 plus throw which is too far. You're out of bullets in round 26. With only a standard action left, there's no way to win where you couldn't the rounds before.
Sindorin 11-22-05, 01:33 PM	@Sindorin Sorry for the loss, but it was a good fight. When you were running circles around me and sniping was no-go, I was really worried. Good luck for next time, friend. Yeah, when writing tactics I had considered popping Dameon with a Magic Missile to get him to cast shield and then dispelling him, but I was in a rush as you might be able to tell from Va'ria's tactics. I was trying to get as much damage off as early as possible because I knew I would probably get shot to death. Oddly enough, I felt really good about facing Krunch and Ariel, which was the originally rolled pairing for Va'ria (a hunter match). I had a nice set of tactics for her and I felt I had a good chance to take both of them out and get a double win. When I saw I had been switched to being paired against Dameon, I was like "hmm, I just questlorded for this guy and he doesn't like scorching rays. We'll try those." That, and a human and a dwarf are much more susceptible to magic than an aasimar. Sadly, I didn't leave enough in the late game for a Dispel Magic. At first I nearly blundered because I was going to try and Hold Person Dameon but caught myself as he is an outsider. That would have been so Elderish of me, eh? Right on Right on Anyway, yes, good fight, damn CEF for all their goody goodys. You've all heard me say this before... but now in size 8, and bolded! I HATE ONLY BEING 1/3 OF A CHARACTER WHEN I WANT TO PLAY A WIZARD. DAMN THE 1/3 RULE, I CURSE IT TO THE BUTTCRACK OF ELYSIUM!!!
Caterane 11-22-05, 01:33 PM	@ Cat Regarding the Ajora vs Zeno fight... Are you, in fact, allowing the purchase of powerstoring arrows? I want this explicitly answered, because the spellstoring/powerstoring enchantments are not listed as being available to ranged weapons/ammunition. They are only listed on the melee weapons charts. Are we allowing credit expenditures to now specifically break this rule? Uh...another thing that is not ok with Ajora. I'll refund the credits for the powerstoring arrows. Thanks for pointing it out.
NiQil 11-22-05, 01:34 PM	@ Cat Regarding the Ajora vs Zeno fight... Are you, in fact, allowing the purchase of powerstoring arrows? I want this explicitly answered, because the spellstoring/powerstoring enchantments are not listed as being available to ranged weapons/ammunition. They are only listed on the melee weapons charts. Are we allowing credit expenditures to now specifically break this rule? Edit: LOL ya beat me to the punch....thought you may have missed it. FYI, I believe Memorex has also purchase powerstoring arrows....it should also be listed in the Blackmarket thread. Nope...I was incorrect...just read the same post twice by mistake. Just Ajora.
Caterane 11-22-05, 01:36 PM	@all: Please remember to send any changes in the initial fight outcome to the Pitlords account. I cannot follow every discussion here. Thanks!
Sindorin 11-22-05, 01:38 PM	@all: Please remember to send any changes in the initial fight outcome to the Pitlords account. I cannot follow every discussion here. Thanks! I almost wish you hadn't noticed the change in Va'ria vs. Dameon - I was halfway through editing her sheet with the win and I saw that it had changed and I was like 'wheee'... yesh, EHTC is in trouble, its two office-holding characters lost this week. Plus, Va'ria's rating is rather low these days, I had hoped to bolster it by winning against a 1000 pt difference... oh well :)
TelinArtho 11-22-05, 01:43 PM	I just realized I did the rewards for the hunter fight wrong. Here's the updated values: Aida is the first loser, using a tattoo of Skate. She gains 300xp/300gp. Mektos is the second loser, using a potion of Reduce Person, a scroll of Mage Armor (CL1), a scroll of Shield (CL1) and a scroll of Summon Nature's Ally I (CL1). He gains 300xp/360gp. Haizan is the third loser and defeated one target, using a scroll of Invisibility (CL3), a scroll of Mage Armor (CL1), a scroll of Alter Self (CL3), an Elixer of Hiding, and a Tattoo of Chameleon. He gains 600xp/600gp. Kitaya is the winner and defeated 2 targets, using a scroll of Invisibility (CL3), a scroll of Mage Armor (CL1), a scroll of Shield (CL1), a scroll of Magic Weapon (CL1) and a scroll of Enlarge Person (CL1). She gains 1500xp/1563gp I'll correct the fight itself in just a moment
Macbrea 11-22-05, 01:48 PM	Bah... I will correct!
Usurpator 11-22-05, 01:48 PM	Maeril (Usurpator) vs Torgirr Hammerstriker (TheMagister) [ECL4] is up Thanks for running the fight Dracazar, I didn't see any serious issues. I like the maps and the formatting, it was fairly easy for me to read. I see that next time I should pay more attention to writing my tactics. It was not my intention to waste the shocking grasp by casting obscuring mist. It would probably be better just to escape the entangle myself, considering it is only a DC 11 Reflex and Maeril had +9 Ref. I am fine with you using the scroll of cause fear, no problem. I am also content in the knowledge even with slightly better tactics, Torgirr's rolls were just so good that I probably couldn't have beaten him anyway. My point of view about 'unintentionally discharging touch spells' is clear for those that read my piece in the Tavern. It didn't matter much in this fight, though. Magister, about your issues: I don't think soft fall lets you end up prone, IMO the point of succeeding is controlling the fall, and thus ending not up prone. It's only 5 ft. down after all. There are even some Pitlords that think that an actual fall from 100 ft. high won't make you end up prone because it doesn't say so anywhere.... (not me) Maeril should see the arrow coming (he can see within 5 ft.) so should at least able to 'react instantly' to claim cover from his mount. Indeed, Snaggle should use tumble to reach your square and attack.... Congratulations on your victory!
Usurpator 11-22-05, 02:34 PM	I just realized I did the rewards for the hunter fight wrong. Here's the updated values: Kitaya is the winner and defeated 2 targets. She gains 1500xp/1563gp I know. Back in the day Nexa defeated only one target in her three-way hunter fight and got 1800 xp/gp. Now Kitaya defeats 2 targets in a four-way, and gets less.... ;) I do think the rewards are better balanced now, though.
Gonbow 11-22-05, 02:43 PM	@Huan Well... aside from the fact that you stopped Augmenting my Energy Missiles, (I only asked to stop augmenting when I hit 3 pp) the fight looks about right. I didn't expect him to have his horse fight for him O.o @Sindorin Fight is done, I'm posting it now. You might want to alter your tactics to reflect that your character is NOT a sorcerer. (Memorizing Fireball once, then trying to cast it three times doesn't work well) EDIT: Aranor vrs Greefe is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7816509&postcount=689).
Sunwolf 11-22-05, 02:50 PM	@Tok Thanks for running the ALL vs ALL ECL 8 fight. Please check my math below because I don't think the rewards you posted worked out right. ALLvs ALL 3person [ECL8] 1st gets Winner Rewards, plus 1 loser reward for every opponent 2nd gains Loser Rewards, plus 1 loser reward for every opponent -1. 3rd gains Loser Rewards, plus 1 loser reward for every opponent -2. Winner gets win + 2x loss rewards 2nd gets 1+(2-1)=2 loss rewards 3rd gets 1+(2-2)=1 loss rewards. Zubair brought in an CR1 (Uday) ally for an adjusment of ((1/6)*25%) = 4.17% Baelin (3rd) should get (800 + 800 *1.0417) /2 = (800 +833.36)/2 = 816xp and (1133 + 1133 *1.0417)/2 = (1133 + 1180)/2 =1157gp Zubair (2nd) should get 2*(800 -4.17%) = 2(766.64)=1534xp and 2*(1133 -4.17%) = 2*(1085.75) = 2172gp Brilf (1st) should get 2400 + 800 + 833 = 4033xp and 3400 + 1133 + 1180= 5713gp +208 for profession scribe. Used items: Zubair: stone of extended skate [ML3] Brilf: Potion of invisibility; Powerstone expansion [ML3], inertial amor[1], precog offensive[1]
TelinArtho 11-22-05, 02:53 PM	@Huan Well... aside from the fact that you stopped Augmenting my Energy Missiles, (I only asked to stop augmenting when I hit 3 pp) the fight looks about right. I didn't expect him to have his horse fight for him O.o @Sindorin Fight is done, I'm posting it now. You might want to alter your tactics to reflect that your character is NOT a sorcerer. (Memorizing Fireball once, then trying to cast it three times doesn't work well) It could be just the way I read his tactics, but it sounds to me that he wanted to cast Fireball, Shocking Grasp, Shocking Grasp in the first three rounds of the Laughter: Once he is hit with Hideous Laughter (DC 19) and fails his save, Aranor has 5 precious rounds to do as much damage as possible to him. Use the first three to hit him with a Fireball followed by a Shocking Grasp cast on Invictus, delivered, and then another Shocking Grasp cast on Invictus and delivered. After this if he is still alive, Use my two remaining spell levels to cast Magic Missile until he is dead, and if the dice aren't nice to me, cast fly from a scroll and get out of harms way. Once in the air, use the scroll of Fireball (the scribed one) to hopefully end it. Errr.. ya already used that one
TheMagister 11-22-05, 02:53 PM	@Dracazar: 2. While TheMagister is saying "flat-footed" - what he really means is that his opponent cannot see the attack coming - so therefore does not have his dex bonus. This would apply even though he knows Torgirr is nearby. At the same time however, if he has set up behind cover - he does get this AC bonus (as long as Torgirr is attacking from that direction obviously). Torgirr was sniping a riding Maeril. Riding Maeril wanted to use his Mounted Combat feat to make a DC 15 ride check to claim his mount as cover. Riding Maeril cannot make use of this option against an attack that he is not aware of. That's all I'm sayin'. It's all moot because the dice were so hot in this fight, and Torgirr rolled so much more than Maeril. I'm just pointing it out for learning purposes. Now, if it had been a close match, I'd be a little more insistent... TM
Sindorin 11-22-05, 02:57 PM	It could be just the way I read his tactics, but it sounds to me that he wanted to cast Fireball, Shocking Grasp, Shocking Grasp in the first three rounds of the Laughter: You read it right... I don't think I was unclear in any way.
Gonbow 11-22-05, 03:04 PM	Hmm. I guess I read that wrong; My apologizes. It sounded like you wanted to hit him with three firebals, then two shocks to me. *shrugs*
TheMagister 11-22-05, 03:08 PM	Maeril should see the arrow coming (he can see within 5 ft.) so should at least able to 'react instantly' to claim cover from his mount. I'm sorry, I just don't agree with this. Either a character can react to unseen danger (by keeping his Dex to AC) or he has to trust in his armor (or, in Maeril's case, magical protections) to deflect to blow. Saying you can see the arrow before it strikes is pretty silly...how could sniping work at all if such a thing were possible? I think the -20 to the hide check is what represents your character's chance to see where the attack came from. Even if initiative has started, and combat has been joined, a rogue can drink a potion of invisibility and sneak attack someone from within 30', and THEY are denied their Dex, or the sneak attack damage would not apply because they can see the arrow/dagger/whatever. A rogue can also run away and hide and achieve the same result. Do you see what I'm saying? TM
NiQil 11-22-05, 03:08 PM	Hmm. I guess I read that wrong; My apologizes. It sounded like you wanted to hit him with three firebals, then two shocks to me. *shrugs* Something else I noticed.....you had Aranor burn a fly scroll because he had no ranks in heal.....but heal is an untrained skill and can be used with no ranks. So you may wanna include a heal check there so as to account for the possibility that that scroll may not get used. However, there is not any listed DC for this type of action, so I am not even sure if this would be required just to see if an opponent is incapacitated.
Tellish_of_Ket 11-22-05, 03:15 PM	@Tok Thanks for running the ALL vs ALL ECL 8 fight. Please check my math below because I don't think the rewards you posted worked out right. ALLvs ALL 3person [ECL8] Winner gets win + 2x loss rewards 2nd gets 1+(2-1)=2 loss rewards 3rd gets 1+(2-2)=1 loss rewards. Zubair brought in an CR1 (Uday) ally for an adjusment of ((1/6)*25%) = 4.17% Baelin (3rd) should get (800 + 800 *1.0417) /2 = (800 +833.36)/2 = 816xp and (1133 + 1133 *1.0417)/2 = (1133 + 1180)/2 =1157gp Zubair (2nd) should get 2*(800 -4.17%) = 2(766.64)=1534xp and 2*(1133 -4.17%) = 2*(1085.75) = 2172gp Brilf (1st) should get 2400 + 800 + 833 = 4033xp and 3400 + 1133 + 1180= 5713gp +208 for profession scribe. Used items: Zubair: stone of extended skate [ML3] Brilf: Potion of invisibility; Powerstone expansion [ML3], inertial amor[1], precog offensive[1] K, edited to reflect that. -ToK
Usurpator 11-22-05, 03:17 PM	I'm sorry, I just don't agree with this. Either a character can react to unseen danger (by keeping his Dex to AC) or he has to trust in his armor (or, in Maeril's case, magical protections) to deflect to blow. Saying you can see the arrow before it strikes is pretty silly...how could sniping work at all if such a thing were possible? I think the -20 to the hide check is what represents your character's chance to see where the attack came from. I am not saying he would keep his Dex, certainly not, I am saying that he would get to use his ride check to gain the cover bonus. Instantly reacting to arrow shots by ducking away behind your horse as you are shot is ridiculous anyway, if you ask me. Technically, if you just try to target the square, it's an even chance to hit Maeril or his horse as well, I think.
Usurpator 11-22-05, 03:23 PM	@Telin: Thank you for picking up the 4-man hunter fight! That just went perfectly for Kitaya. Even though I did paste the magic weapon buff in the wrong order in my tactics and forgot that enlarge person costs one round to cast.
KerlanRayne 11-22-05, 04:04 PM	K, edited to reflect that.This may change if the mistakes I PMed you about change things. Namely that he can't maintain a grapple because I'm mounted and he has too many attacks in the first round of the grapple (I think). KerlanRayne
Dracazar 11-22-05, 04:20 PM	deleted
Ribking 11-22-05, 04:23 PM	Aranor vrs Greefe is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7816509&postcount=689).Well that went better than I had expected. I hear "Fireball" and get all shaken up. But is seems as though Greefe is now hardy enough to take it on the chin. It looks as if I could have actually won this pretty easily if I specified when to throw more than one axe per round in my tactics. One question....since my readied action was never triggered, is Greefe still supposed to act immediately following Aranor? If the initiative order had not been changed, Greefe would get one more attack against Aranor....one more chance to crit...and possibly win. Not looking for a rewrite or anything, just a question. Good Fight, Sindorin. And thanks, Gonbow.
Tellish_of_Ket 11-22-05, 04:31 PM	This may change if the mistakes I PMed you about change things. Namely that he can't maintain a grapple because I'm mounted and he has too many attacks in the first round of the grapple (I think). KerlanRayne Round 8: Brilf charges and Zubair knows someone is coming for him, but can’t pinpoint and is struck hard by Brilf, [atk: 4 (+2charge, +2invis, +1off, +5bab, +6str, -1size) = 19, hits. Opposed grapple: 25 vs 23, success. Dmg: 18] Zubair cannot use his ready, and tries to simply break free, [Opposed Grapple: 13/8 vs 27/30] Uday full attacks vs Brilf [atk: 9/20/0] Brilf 67/67 [invis] [inertial armour] [force screen] [AA-str] [expansion] [off precog] Zubair 22/40 [hostile intent] [force screen] [skate] Uday 22/22 Lemme address both your issues: 1) I only see one attack in his first round of grappling. 2) Nothing stops him from moving into your space while mounted. What i did forget was the horses AoO for his movement. Basically, the mount cannot support the weight of the both of you mounted up on. So, instead of making softfall checks, and/or crushing your mount, i opted for the mount to simply get pushed aside and continue with a series of full attacks. It's either that, or it shares your space, in which case, you and Brilf would both fall prone. Hope this helps. If i'm wrong about that (and i looked up RoTG: All About Mounts, and RoTG: All About Grappling) and i couldn't find anything against it. -ToK
NiQil 11-22-05, 04:43 PM	Lemme address both your issues: 1) I only see one attack in his first round of grappling. 2) Nothing stops him from moving into your space while mounted. What i did forget was the horses AoO for his movement. Basically, the mount cannot support the weight of the both of you mounted up on. So, instead of making softfall checks, and/or crushing your mount, i opted for the mount to simply get pushed aside and continue with a series of full attacks. It's either that, or it shares your space, in which case, you and Brilf would both fall prone. Hope this helps. If i'm wrong about that (and i looked up RoTG: All About Mounts, and RoTG: All About Grappling) and i couldn't find anything against it. -ToK @ToK: I believe this might help with the issue in question: Grappling while mounted: If you grapple someone who is mounted, you join him on the mount, or - if the mount cannot carry both of you - you are grappling your opponent adjectent to it (the mount gets an AoO unless the attacker has the Improved Grapple feat). If the mount decides to move, the rider falls off unless he wins an opposed grapple check against the attacker in which case he drags him along.
KerlanRayne 11-22-05, 05:36 PM	Round 8: Brilf charges and Zubair knows someone is coming for him, but can’t pinpoint and is struck hard by Brilf, [atk: 4 (+2charge, +2invis, +1off, +5bab, +6str, -1size) = 19, hits. Opposed grapple: 25 vs 23, success. Dmg: 18] Zubair cannot use his ready, and tries to simply break free, [Opposed Grapple: 13/8 vs 27/30] Uday full attacks vs Brilf [atk: 9/20/0] Brilf 67/67 [invis] [inertial armour] [force screen] [AA-str] [expansion] [off precog] Zubair 22/40 [hostile intent] [force screen] [skate] Uday 22/22This is the part that confused me. EDIT: Duh, nevermind. Those are my escape attempts. So did I roll a two, twice? Ouch. KerlanRayne
Cerebus13 11-22-05, 10:02 PM	I am not saying he would keep his Dex, certainly not, I am saying that he would get to use his ride check to gain the cover bonus. Instantly reacting to arrow shots by ducking away behind your horse as you are shot is ridiculous anyway, if you ask me. Technically, if you just try to target the square, it's an even chance to hit Maeril or his horse as well, I think.This quote from the Rules of the Game article: All about Mounts (Part Two) is how the CoCo has handled this...Get Cover from Your Mount: Because you and your mount share a space on the battlefield, you normally cannot claim cover from your mount. Whenever someone attacks you, however, you can attempt a DC 15 Ride check to claim cover from your mount. If you succeed, you get the benefit of cover (+4 to AC). According to the D&D FAQ, the cover benefit applies to all attacks made against you during the same place in the initiative order. If foes attack you several different times during a round, you must make a new Ride check to get cover from your mount against those attacks. You cannot claim cover while you're casting a spell or making any kind of attack. Using your mount for cover isn't an action, and you can do so anytime you're attacked (subject to the limits noted previously). The rules don't say so, but using your mount for cover represents you actively avoiding attacks, and it's reasonable to assume that you cannot do so when you are denied your Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class. Edit: added the right section...
Tellish_of_Ket 11-22-05, 10:13 PM	This is the part that confused me. EDIT: Duh, nevermind. Those are my escape attempts. So did I roll a two, twice? Ouch. KerlanRayne Ya. You had some other really good opportunities to even oppose his grapple attempts to avoid getting damaged, but when it came to clutch time, the roller just really didn't like you. Grappling while mounted: If you grapple someone who is mounted, you join him on the mount, or - if the mount cannot carry both of you - you are grappling your opponent adjectent to it (the mount gets an AoO unless the attacker has the Improved Grapple feat). If the mount decides to move, the rider falls off unless he wins an opposed grapple check against the attacker in which case he drags him along. Ya, that's basically what i did, i guess i did it right. hehe -ToK
Vathelokai 11-22-05, 11:22 PM	@Pitlords: A challenge has been aranged for next week! Ashur of WAR vs Tan and Auburn of TAO A PM has been sent. Pitlords box is full! Oh NO! :eek: :)
Maraxus 11-23-05, 03:46 AM	Ashhur vs Noko has been edited. Unfortunatly, the pixie should have brought some of the arrows that she left behind. A dagger might have been nice too. Why a dagger? Even if it was masterwork, it had only +1 to attack and 1d3-1 damage. I know, Why I did not mention any melee attacks in my attack section. ...Healing spells has this character, too? Against the odds, I dealt enough damage and he heals? I definitly respect this character. (But 1/3 of 4 is 2, not 3 ;)) ...but going into melee? Hm, well, if I had moved after every attack ... okay, then Ashhur could have readied to attack... I still think flying above him and never ever coming down would have been the best idea... ...or better: siting down somewhere and waiting for him to fall asleep and then brutally delivering a CDG ... no, this falls under the 10 round delaying rule that could result in bags of flour into the arena ... But still, his defence is high AC and many hit points, my defence is (next to others) flying. Why can he sit it out and I go melee when I realize, I can't shoot him anymore? That's like him dropping the shield when he realizes, he can't hurt me. ... Sorry, looks like I'm just a bad looser. :rolleyes:
Usurpator 11-23-05, 04:19 AM	About the Ashur vs Noko fight, I don't think the arrows that Ashur snapped are lost. If that were true, my characters will drink all potions and read/shred all scrolls, use all tattoos from their fallen opponents next time. Any expendable used up by anyone other than yourself should return to you at the end of the match.
MystErikEry 11-23-05, 04:26 AM	About the Ashur vs Noko fight, I don't think the arrows that Ashur snapped are lost. If that were true, my characters will drink all potions and read/shred all scrolls, use all tattoos from their fallen opponents next time. Any expendable used up by anyone other than yourself should return to you at the end of the match. When your opponent is no longer able to fight, the match ends. Anything you steal from them during the fight, however, (ala Sleight of Hand) and then use are gone for good. I'm going to be a mean little devil and abuse this someday, making an invisible Chaotic Evil Sleight of Hand / Cleric (Trickery + Magic) Rogue whose sole purpose in battle is to use up all of his opponent's potions (and scrolls, but I think that would require Read Magic and other nasty things, plus they'd point his location out, so the potions go first). Isn't that mean? :D Edit: Also, those arrows were broken because they were fired and missed (or hit and were destroyed). Those arrows that missed should have a 50% chance of being destroyed (unless there's a CoCo houserule about them always surviving, or always being destroyed). Those that do not break can be recovered; if Ashhur is going to break them himself, he'd have to make sundering attempts against them or Strength checks or something, anyway... This wasn't explicitly mentioned in the post, but if it was the case, then those arrows are pretty gone...
TheMagister 11-23-05, 07:07 AM	This quote from the Rules of the Game article: All about Mounts (Part Two) is how the CoCo has handled this... Thanks, man. TM
Guildmaster (TAO) 11-23-05, 07:14 AM	I'm going to be a mean little devil and abuse this someday, making an invisible Chaotic Evil Sleight of Hand / Cleric (Trickery + Magic) Rogue whose sole purpose in battle is to use up all of his opponent's potions (and scrolls, but I think that would require Read Magic and other nasty things, plus they'd point his location out, so the potions go first).Wands of read magic are really cheap :D But the real problem with the build is that if you miss your slight of hand check, the DC on the next try goes up by ... I think 10. Maybe 20.
Usurpator 11-23-05, 07:34 AM	When your opponent is no longer able to fight, the match ends. Anything you steal from them during the fight, however, (ala Sleight of Hand) and then use are gone for good. I don't think that's fair. A sleep spell doesn't put someone out of the fight, for example. Is being subjected to a sleep spell sufficient to lose all your expendable stuff? Anyway, if one of my monks or other grapplers grabs anyone of your characters, I will be sure to relieve them of all their items before I defeat them: Grabbing Items You can use a disarm action to snatch an item worn by the target. If you want to have the item in your hand, the disarm must be made as an unarmed attack. If the item is poorly secured or otherwise easy to snatch or cut away the attacker gets a +4 bonus. Unlike on a normal disarm attempt, failing the attempt doesn’t allow the defender to attempt to disarm you. This otherwise functions identically to a disarm attempt, as noted above. You can’t snatch an item that is well secured unless you have pinned the wearer (see Grapple). Even then, the defender gains a +4 bonus on his roll to resist the attempt. Also A character can trigger the effects of another’s psionic tattoo if the other wearer is unconscious. It is a full-round action to find, touch, and concentrate on an unconscious creature’s tattoo in order to tap it. And the 'not able to fight anymore' rule only applies if there are no attacking allies. Meaning people with allies will be at an extra disadvantage.
Usurpator 11-23-05, 07:36 AM	if Ashhur is going to break them himself, he'd have to make sundering attempts against them or Strength checks or something, anyway... This wasn't explicitly mentioned in the post, but if it was the case, then those arrows are pretty gone... Sundering arrows would no more destroy them permanently as sundering any other item would here in CoCo.
Pitlords 11-23-05, 08:18 AM	Roster is updated. I might have missed it but can it be that Nightbanegod's fight is still not finished? If so, any takers?
NiQil 11-23-05, 08:31 AM	Roster is updated. I might have missed it but can it be that Nightbanegod's fight is still not finished? If so, any takers? Correct...it is still not finished. He said he couldn't finish it yesterday afternoon. Macbrea had mentioned about possibly taking it, but never said for sure if he was going to or not.
Ribking 11-23-05, 08:50 AM	@Gonbow Greefe didn't earn any money through Painting last week. He crafted another 3[Ma]Throwing Axes.
TelinArtho 11-23-05, 09:31 AM	Roster is updated. I might have missed it but can it be that Nightbanegod's fight is still not finished? If so, any takers? Well, I might have enough time to run through it today. So I'll take it unless Macbrea steps up and says he's finished it. /d
Mind Rogue 11-23-05, 10:00 AM	I put some arrows back at the end. I just took the average amount because I didn't want to roll for all of them arrows. And with that, don't be surprised if I'm not around to make further revisions. I'm leaving campus this afternoon and I still need to pack.
Macbrea 11-23-05, 10:28 AM	Actually, with the Spiked Guantlet (1d4+3) damage that Ashhur has they would have a seriously tough time breaking arrows. Lets use the real breakage system to see how hard an arrow would be to break by hand in dungeons and dragons. Wood is 10 hps/inch and 5 hardness. We will use the stats on a wand for the average arrow. " A typical wand is 6 inches to 12 inches long and about ¼ inch thick" and "A typical wand has AC 7, 5 hit points, hardness 5, and a break DC of 16." This means assuming automatic hits on a held item. Ashung can apply 1d4+3 damage per round to an arrow. This is 5.5 damage on average per round, taking an average of 10 rounds to break the arrow with normal damage. If Ashhur choose to do a breaking maneuver on the arrow he would have 40% chance per round of breaking the arrow. So, would actually be better off doing a break DC then applying damage to it. I would assume 60% of the arrows that were fired and survived the 50% miss breakage survived. Yes, I know it sounds silly, but the character still needs to be able to attempt the action.
Macbrea 11-23-05, 10:31 AM	Well, I might have enough time to run through it today. So I'll take it unless Macbrea steps up and says he's finished it. /d Nope won't have time today. Am sitting at work staring at the screen!
Luni 11-23-05, 01:09 PM	When your opponent is no longer able to fight, the match ends. Anything you steal from them during the fight, however, (ala Sleight of Hand) and then use are gone for good. I'm going to be a mean little devil and abuse this someday, making an invisible Chaotic Evil Sleight of Hand / Cleric (Trickery + Magic) Rogue whose sole purpose in battle is to use up all of his opponent's potions (and scrolls, but I think that would require Read Magic and other nasty things, plus they'd point his location out, so the potions go first). Isn't that mean? :D Edit: Also, those arrows were broken because they were fired and missed (or hit and were destroyed). Those arrows that missed should have a 50% chance of being destroyed (unless there's a CoCo houserule about them always surviving, or always being destroyed). Those that do not break can be recovered; if Ashhur is going to break them himself, he'd have to make sundering attempts against them or Strength checks or something, anyway... This wasn't explicitly mentioned in the post, but if it was the case, then those arrows are pretty gone... I think any arrows Ashhûr breaks should be refunded for. As for breaking them, Ashhûr does have an adamantie Axe. Or he just collects them and stuffs them in his pockets, as my intent was to deny Noko shooting multiple arrows off twice.
Macbrea 11-23-05, 01:31 PM	Any arrow that he breaks should be considered the same as sundering any other weapon in the arena. It should be returned to the rightful owner. I am against sleight of hand allowing someone to steal items for more then the fight. As it stands it would become an accounting nightmare. It would also mean in the ALL vs ALL fights the standard tactics would look something like: I cast hold person on XXX and then go loot all his expendables to be able to use them in the fight. I will come back later and kill him last, but for now. Just leave him standing there.
TelinArtho 11-23-05, 01:33 PM	At this point, it looks like I won't be able to finish the fight before pairings are set. If Pitlords can, I'll take the fight next week so that the fight will be posted asap (I'm already partway through - but work is busy today).
King Uther 11-23-05, 01:39 PM	JUst stopping in while on vacation. I saw my fights, but I have 2 questions. @Cat Why didn't Virgo flurry in the grapple? @Snommelp She should have had to roll a spot to see Haizan, unless there is an ultimately good reason she would magically move to negate all my cover. She would have no way to locate me, unless there was something I missed in the posting of the fight. Take these with a grain of salt, as I did not thoroughly check them.
TelinArtho 11-23-05, 01:58 PM	@Uther - regarding Haizan's fight (I ran it by the way): Aida did not need to do a spot, she knew your general area and was summoning a creature with tremorsense. It located you instantly and moved to intercept. Once it got there - Aida logically attacked the same area. All in all, she didn't hit/missed because of concealment anyway.
Gonbow 11-23-05, 02:17 PM	@Gonbow Greefe didn't earn any money through Painting last week. He crafted another 3[Ma]Throwing Axes. Oh? My apologizes; I'll remove it now.
Mal-2 11-23-05, 02:32 PM	@Huan Can you edit in the number of arrows Donak expended in his fight this week? I just went to update and noticed you hadn't mentioned it in the end-of-fight summary.
Guildmaster (EYE) 11-23-05, 03:11 PM	@Cat Why didn't Virgo flurry in the grapple? Flurry is a full round action (Full Attack). I didn't think you could while grappleing... is this not the case? :thinking: *goes off to rethink a few core stratigies*
Snommelp 11-23-05, 03:14 PM	Flurry is a full round action (Full Attack). I didn't think you could while grappleing... is this not the case? :thinking: *goes off to rethink a few core stratigies* It's been ruled that it can be done; popular opinion is that even with monks able to flurry in a grapple, they're underpowered. I disagree with that opinion, but it gets my monk extra attacks, so I'm fine with the ruling. Maybe I should add that to the WAR FAQ...
Huan 11-23-05, 05:03 PM	@Huan Can you edit in the number of arrows Donak expended in his fight this week? I just went to update and noticed you hadn't mentioned it in the end-of-fight summary. Done, and good luck this pairings. @Everyone Happy Thanksgiving.
Caterane 11-23-05, 07:40 PM	@Cat: Why didn't Virgo flurry in the grapple? Because you very clearly wrote to 'Damage an Opponent' (ie Opposed Grapple Checks) instead of attacking Hagrid's AC at -4 plus another -2 for the flurry. Grapple checks are made at your iterative BAB.
Maraxus 11-24-05, 03:03 AM	Because you very clearly wrote to 'Damage an Opponent' (ie Opposed Grapple Checks) instead of attacking Hagrid's AC at -4 plus another -2 for the flurry. Grapple checks are made at your iterative BAB. I think there are a lot of people who think otherwise. I don't have decided, what I like better, yet but I have read a lot of saying that you can flurry to damage your opponent. And it has a point: It sais, that you can make additional attacks (and in-place-of-attack ations) from high BAB, it does not say, that this is the only source for additional attacks in a grapple, nor does it rule Flurry out explicitly. Two weapon fighting is ruled out explicitly, flurry not. And Natural attacks are an example, that the general rule that you get additional attacks from high BAB is not exclusive.
Caterane 11-24-05, 03:09 AM	Natural Attacks are also only available if you "Attack an Opponent". Flurry is not explecitely mentioned as TWF is but the grapple rules state that you use your BAB to "Damage an Opponent". I agree that it is not 100% clear but at least it is clearer not possible.
NiQil 11-24-05, 03:14 AM	Because you very clearly wrote to 'Damage an Opponent' (ie Opposed Grapple Checks) instead of attacking Hagrid's AC at -4 plus another -2 for the flurry. Grapple checks are made at your iterative BAB. It has been my understanding as long as I have been here that monks are allowed to use their flurry to gain multiple grapple checks in a grapple...which is what I think Uther is referring to as well. Are we now reversing this? Because I am pretty sure if I go looking that I will be able to find several fights where a flurry was used for multiple grapple checks, with no previous mention that this was not allowed. If this is being changed, fine.....but please put a definitive statement as to how grappling works for monks and for natural weapons and everything else in the Rules thread under the houserules section so that there is a source. It appears that no one knows what the proper ruling is. Edit: And also....the rules that allow a flurry for multiple checks are *not the BAB portion of the grappling rules. They are the rules that we have used that allow anything with natural weapons to make a grapple check for each natural attack. At least that was my understanding. So, again.....please put something in the houserules section of the Rules thread so there is a definitive reference.
Gonbow 11-24-05, 02:38 PM	It has been my understanding as long as I have been here that monks are allowed to use their flurry to gain multiple grapple checks in a grapple...which is what I think Uther is referring to as well. Are we now reversing this? Because I am pretty sure if I go looking that I will be able to find several fights where a flurry was used for multiple grapple checks, with no previous mention that this was not allowed. If this is being changed, fine.....but please put a definitive statement as to how grappling works for monks and for natural weapons and everything else in the Rules thread under the houserules section so that there is a source. It appears that no one knows what the proper ruling is. Edit: And also....the rules that allow a flurry for multiple checks are *not the BAB portion of the grappling rules. They are the rules that we have used that allow anything with natural weapons to make a grapple check for each natural attack. At least that was my understanding. So, again.....please put something in the houserules section of the Rules thread so there is a definitive reference. Well, it was hashed out awhile ago that Natural weapons don't allow extra grapple checks, but rather extra attacks at the opponent. At the time, I cried a bit of foul as we allowed Flurry to make extra grapple checks: We have to be consistent with them, since they more or less fall under the same category. At the moment, Haste and BAB are the only things that let you make more Damage attempts, whereas a whole boatload of things let you make extra Attack attempts. I'm curious how natural weapons interact with manufactured weapons in a grapple myself though; My dretch for instance has Spiked Armor and 3 natural weapons. In a normal HtH situation, he can attack with all of them at once. Can he do so in a grapple? Can he damage with the spiked armor (As it was designed to do) and attack with his natural weapons?
Altaris13 11-28-05, 12:06 PM	@Dr. Funk Re: Mini vs Leif fight Missed this on my first glance at the fight. Mini has power resistance so you will need to make a CL check for Leif's MM from scroll -- 1d20+5 vs DC 11 to see if the MM goes through. In case the MM fails and Mini gets the electric energy bolt off -- Leif has resistance 5 to electricity. @Dr. Funk Why wasn't this addressed? Please correct ASAP. Power Resistance = Spell Resistance. As this is one of the hitches of my template which eats up two of my class levels, I'd thank you to give me my fair due. I would've addressed this myself sooner, except I was away for the holiday. Thanks for the help. EDIT: Here's the link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7800472&postcount=667) to the fight, for your convenience.