Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Magagumo 03-02-04, 02:53 PM	@ Cat As one cannot use Ranged Weapons to sunder, how did Ilene shatter Donkey's shield? An arrow cannot destroy a shield the size of a wall, and the rules clearly state that ranged weapons are not an option for sundering weapons or shields. Obviously, Donkey has being outevaded by Ilene, but sundering was not an option.. Response Cat?
Jindl 03-02-04, 03:11 PM	Oooh, oooh ... I have another one for Cat to respond to: from the Candy vs Jagath fight Round 9: Candy casts dispel magic on Jagath [Candy: DM vs Cats (1+9) = 10 vs Dc13, fails]. Jagath pinpoints her again and fires [Jagath: Longbow (19+15) = 34 vs Ac16, success; Miss chance (50%) = 1%, fails; Longbow (1!), fails]. Serrat runs towards Candy Jagath: (-11/-2), 53/53 hp, Entangle, Cats grace Serrat: (-29/7), 30/30 hp Candy: (-28/12), 44/52 hp, Good hope, Ventriloquism, Expeditious retreat, Greater invisibility (6/7), Eagle`s splendor, See invisibility, Singing Round 10: Candy moves closer to Jagath for her next spell. Jagath and Serrat easily pinpoint her singing and fire at her [Jagath: Longbow (16+15) = 31 vs Ac20(cover) = success; Miss chance (50%) = 95%, success; Damage (1d8+5) = 12; Longbow (15+10) = 25 vs Ac20, success; Miss chance (50%) = 65%, success; Damage (1d8+5) = 7]. Jagath: (-11/-2), 53/53 hp, Entangle, Cats grace Serrat: (-11/6), 30/30 hp Candy: (-4/6), 44/52 hp, Good hope, Ventriloquism, Expeditious retreat, Greater invisibility (7/7), Eagle`s splendor, See invisibility, Singing Shouldn't Candy have lost 19 hps in round 10? Later in the fight she was reduced to 15 hps at one point, and if the damage from round 10 had been included, this would have put her unconcious. What happened? -Jindl
Magagumo 03-02-04, 03:18 PM	Alright, having read over rules for damaging objects, I understand that Cat was halving the damage the bow dealt, but a tower shield is wood, which means it also has hardness 5. Thusly, while dealing 1d8+6, if Ilene rolled max damage (14) which becomes 2 damage (after hardness) she would have had to hit that shield 10 times with max damage (20 hp). If he rolls a 6 or 7 on damage, she deals 1 point, and no damage below that. Thusly, unless Donkey could honestly not reach her after that many arrows (and that is a lot of arrows), then I wonder if he couldn't have won? Or at least have had a fighting chance...
Jindl 03-02-04, 03:19 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Alright, having read over rules for damaging objects, I understand that Cat was halving the damage the bow dealt, but a tower shield is wood, which means it also has hardness 5. Thusly, while dealing 1d8+6, if Ilene rolled max damage (14) which becomes 2 damage (after hardness) she would have had to hit that shield 10 times with max damage (20 hp). If he rolls a 6 or 7 on damage, she deals 1 point, and no damage below that. Thusly, unless Donkey could honestly not reach her after that many arrows (and that is a lot of arrows), then I wonder if he couldn't have won? Or at least have had a fighting chance... Ilene was using adamantine arrows - ignore hardness. -Jindl @ Snark - Ha, I beat you. Hey, no editing your own edit... ;)
SnarkHunter 03-02-04, 03:19 PM	dbl post- err it was shortly after jindl posted ;). Edit: But I edited before you did.
Magagumo 03-02-04, 03:26 PM	Hmm.. interesting tactic, I likes it :)
Alterlat 03-02-04, 06:40 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Oooh, oooh ... I have another one for Cat to respond to: Shouldn't Candy have lost 19 hps in round 10? Later in the fight she was reduced to 15 hps at one point, and if the damage from round 10 had been included, this would have put her unconcious. What happened? -Jindl Hey yeah! That's a good point! Not that I - ahem - missed it or anything. Anyway, I second Jindl's question. CAT!
Rosella 03-02-04, 08:17 PM	Magagumo, I might be able to give a little backgroundstory on those tactics that you might appreciate: I've been beaten by harvey 2nd a while ago when he used his tower shield for full cover while mounted. That made me think of the fact that I had a problem if I wanted to stay full defense. I've been posting this problem at the "what's a player to do" forum of the players handbook and it's had quite many responses. Ranged sunder is indeed not available, but I managed to convince Cateran to allow adamantine arrows for destroying the shield. As you might've noticed, Ilene is wearing two warp wood vials (also thought up by Ilene herself) and 10 alchemist's fire potions. Those were in case if, for any reason, Ilene wouldn't be allowed to use the adamantine arrows. I do think that the adamantine arrows now are an accepted way of dealing with the tower shields though. (the +6 on dmg does help quite a lot too) If you want the full scope on the tactics vs. tower shield, check out the thread "archer vs. tower shield" in the "what's a player to do" forum.
sshuit 03-02-04, 08:20 PM	It is generally only possible to ranged sunder with bludgeoning or Slashing weapons, Being piercing, I don't think Adamanitum arrows will sunder a tower shield. My opinion and interpretation of the rules anyways. sshuit
MotherBast 03-02-04, 08:38 PM	About the Candy vs. Jagath fight, Cat never factored in the 2D10 temp HP dice Candy should have had from her song either, so she would have had more HP than listed. Plus, she would have simply CDGed sooner, as the extra HP would have put her above heal range.
Rosella 03-02-04, 08:43 PM	sshuit, forget about sundering. I wasn't sundering. Just read the rules about damaging objects, then compare adamantine and all, you'll notice that it's completely legal. Some people think that one would need to sunder to destroy a weapon, that's not necesarily true.
Caterane 03-02-04, 10:18 PM	Most questions were answered already but since they were directed at me I respond to them too. Shouldn't Candy have lost 19 hps in round 10? Right. I just forgot to substract the damage after the round was done. However Candy would`ve had more hp from Inspire greatness, plus she would`ve healed herself earlier (tactic: heal as soon as below 20 hp). If I would`ve used common sense Candy should´ve CDG Jagath the moment he fell asleep. Motherbast - perhaps because he found his bong again ;) - wanted to draw oil, draw longbow, apply oil to longbow, CDG (= 3 rounds) just to get one more damage during the CDG, and who am I to change his tactics?! Anyway, the mistakes came up because it was 3 AM when I ran the fight and I had to stand up at 6 AM so I hurried it through. Was a busy week, that one. I don`t think it affected the outcome. As one cannot use Ranged Weapons to sunder, how did Ilene shatter Donkey's shield? An arrow cannot destroy a shield the size of a wall, and the rules clearly state that ranged weapons are not an option for sundering weapons or shields Sunder had nothing to do with it. Ilene used the "damage an object" rule. Piercing weapons do half damage, adamantine ignores hardness. Great idea, Rosella!
sshuit 03-02-04, 10:39 PM	You guys are nuts if you think adamantium arrows could destroy a tower shield.... They would poke holes in it, but they certainly wouldn't detroy it... From smashing an object "Ineffective weapons:The DM may determine that certain weapons just can't effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example you may have a hard time chopping down a door by shooting arrows at it. I would say that a tower shield is VERY much like a door. You have to use common sense to adjudacate things like this. I mean I wasn't allowed to use arrows to "smash" a scroll, and now its possible to smash a tower shield with arrows ???:confused:
Alterlat 03-02-04, 10:47 PM	Yes, its difficult to predict what might have happened. Candy would have probably had a few less hitpoints, and might have healed sooner, Jagath might have gotten more attacks, etc., etc. But this is why the no-reruns rule exists - its tough to track all these things, and I realise Cat had a busy week.
Arstimis 03-02-04, 10:55 PM	Shield peircing arrows, and i thought that shields were made to defend from arrows. Boy, i must have been wrong..... Oh...and does anyone know whats gonna happen with my fight...i kinda want at least a fair chance to lose if anyone saw my fight...they know what im talking about
Caterane 03-02-04, 11:06 PM	Ineffective weapons: I pointed that out too. That was Rosi's reply: The section about ineffective weapon talks about DM discretion. You can rule that it's impossible to damage a shield with arrows indeed, but the damage from piercing damage is already halved, I AM using adamantine arrows (specifically for this purpose) and I would still need to shoot 12 arrows in it to make sure it becomes unusable. (I've seen enough shields destroyed in movies because they were totally ruined by all kinds of arrows sticking out of it and through it.) And then, she had the Warp wood vials which would`ve destroyed the shield for sure if I would`ve disallowed the arrow tactic so I didnt want to be nitpicking.
SnarkHunter 03-02-04, 11:16 PM	On that note-I don't think the warp wood vials are legal. They aren't found in the DMG under potions or wonderous items as far as I know, and of course, Illene is not a caster with the brew potion feat. But hey, I think Big-ol adamantium arrows would of done the job just fine.
Rosella 03-03-04, 06:38 AM	lol, I'm glad i had the discussion with Cat about these things first :rolleyes: -> the rule for oils and potions are that any 3rd lvl spell or below can be used for them. The price was deducted from the spell level etc. It's again perfectly legal under 3.5 rules. (Besides, I would've needed two potions for a large towershield as Caterane also pointed out to me during the discussion, but that's why I had two) It's nice to be able to add a little to the munchkinism in the Arena :smirk: (And talking about common sense, when holding a tower shield for full cover, you'll get it from all directions, even when surrounded by 50+ archers. That makes as much sense as arrows smashing a shield. If tower shields can be used like this, adamantine arrows can be used too)
SnarkHunter 03-03-04, 07:00 AM	I realize, but in our core arena were not allowing custom magic items except for scrolls/wands, which say in the rules they can have any spell.
Rosella 03-03-04, 07:17 AM	I can't find where it says that scrolls can have any spells. I can't even find a warp wood scroll in there. I did see that this was specifically stated for potions; from the SRD: A potion or oil can be used only once. It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute. I have looked for it, but can't find this for scrolls. The fact that the warp wood vial is not in the list doesn't mean that it isn't allowed for core. Otherwise they'd have huge tables... As far as I can see, a warp wood scroll isn't possible, while a warp wood potion is.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-03-04, 07:43 AM	Ok, now wait a second Snark! In a previous fight, i tried using the "attacking an object" with missle weapons to do the same thing to scrolls. What's the difference here? If i wasn't allowed then, and you all agreed on it, why now suddenly the change in rulings? A tower shield is no different than a scroll, it is a held/worn item/object and subject to being struck. When i tried it it wasn't, "hey good tactics.", it was "hey you cheater, can't do that." lol I think we should aim to be a little more consistent. -ToK
Caterane 03-03-04, 07:49 AM	@Tok: I would`ve allowed it
Tellish_of_Ket 03-03-04, 07:51 AM	Originally posted by Arstimis Oh...and does anyone know whats gonna happen with my fight...i kinda want at least a fair chance to lose if anyone saw my fight...they know what im talking about I don't know if there was previous discussion about this, but i see Kiri with a pixie cohort and Kiri isn't 6th lvl. Leadership is for 6th level characters, not ECL 6. -ToK
SnarkHunter 03-03-04, 07:56 AM	Well I'll admit now I think I was in error. That's too you ToK! I don't have my books with me Rosella, but I'll get back to you.
Jindl 03-03-04, 11:04 AM	If I may, I'd like to comment on a couple of the discussions here: Re: Attacking an Object vs Sundering I think that by definition, attacking an attended object (ie. one in the possession of a character) is considered to be sundering. You cannot ranged sunder. Therefore, if you want to destroy an object in the possession of another character, you must do it in melee, and you must use slashing/bludgeoning/energy damage. You cannot damage an object in a creatures possession using arrows. (They built a seperate feat for this in the Complete Warrior, called Ranged Sunder). So, the tower shield would not have taken any damage from any arrows, adamantium or otherwise. The "Attacking an Object" rules are for unattended objects or vehicles and such. Such as if you want to cut a rope with an arrow, or break down a door with your sword, or throw your handaxe and slice through a chandalier. But if a character is holding (in possession) of an item, you must use the Sundering rules. Perhaps others may disagree with my take on this, but I think the rules and intent is pretty clear, and I think that this is the simplest way to handle this situation. Re: Leadership at ECL 6 Tellish is correct. The prereq for leadership is character level 6, not ECL 6. I think Kiri got away with one on this fight (her opponent and moderator should have checked her more thoroughly). Ethendril, you need to remove/replace the leadership feat and cohort until you are high enough level to take it. The fight stands as is. Re: Potions of Any Spell vs Wands of Any Spell It is an long running and well documented arena rule that Scrolls and Wands can be bought for any spell with any metamagic feats at any caster level (within the Core rules). You may only buy Potions in the varieties listed in the DMG, though if you had the craft potion feat you may make potions in other varieties. This is the arena rule, and has existed since the beginning. Re: Tower Shields Everyone check the Sage. Tower Shield usage has changed. Here are the changes: 1. It is a standard action each round to use a tower shield for full cover. That means tower shields are no longer "prebuffs" nor are they effective means of defense while buffing with spells. They remain effective means of defense while moving, or while your mount attacks. 2. Tower shields only provide full cover against half of the field, and that half is determined when you use your standard action. This is very similar to the 3.0 shield spell. It basically means you need to state what 180* arc your tower shield will provide full cover against. Agile opponents may simply move around to the other side and attack you normally. Also, this means that tower shields will no longer protect you from swarms. This has been an official Sage ruling an will be in the most recent FAQ update. *************************** Well, thats my comments for now. I look forward to hearing your responses :) -Jindl
Caterane 03-03-04, 11:52 AM	Good work Jindl. I agree with all three points. *worldexplodes*
Ethendril 03-03-04, 12:47 PM	Wow...I had no idea I couldn't take leadership. I've removed the cohort.
Battousai2005 03-03-04, 01:02 PM	I didn't know that about leadership either, but that isn't the major problem of the fight. The problem with the fight is how entanglement was handled. Go ahead and let the allie stay for this fight. My eagle and I both passed our reflex saves for both of the entanglements, that was dealt with. Then I just had to move half my speed, and the eagle could move up and be out of its reach. What does everyone else think about this mistake.
Magagumo 03-03-04, 01:08 PM	My apologies if Leadership was handled incorrectly, but I believed ECL 6 to be equal to character level 6... unless we are suddenly stating that Kiri should only be getting equipment for a 3rd level character, then she should be able to qualify for the feat. @Jindl Re: Tower shield *jaw drops* That almost.. makes sense :-D Jeez, nice to know that a single shield cannot prevent someone from ever attacking you while you cotninously buff.. have to admit I like the Sage's ruling on that one. Art, I must apologize for the running of the entangle, I realize now that I mistakenly had them roll twice for entangle in the first round.. .that was a major error on my part and I will be going back... however, due to time constraints, I'm afraid happy descriptions will be cut short... Also, you never made mention in your tactics on being entangled or if you're source of cover was swarmign with vines, so I'm afraid you'll eb a bit more exposed in the first round *Shrugs* We'll see how it goes. Sorry for the massive mix-up, I'm afraid this has been a hell week for me: Academics (Spring Break means multiple tests, presentations, and 10 pg papers), Summer internships, and massive fights with significant others. Anyways, off I go to make things right with the world.
Arstimis 03-03-04, 01:12 PM	Ooops, my friend forgot to log out, and I didn't check....sorry The above post is actually from me (it shouldn't have been too hard to tell)
Ethendril 03-03-04, 01:17 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis Ooops, my friend forgot to log out, and I didn't check....sorry The above post is actually from me (it shouldn't have been too hard to tell) Yeah, I was really confused for a second! My apologies if Leadership was handled incorrectly, but I believed ECL 6 to be equal to character level 6... unless we are suddenly stating that Kiri should only be getting equipment for a 3rd level character, then she should be able to qualify for the feat. Now is leadership allowed, or not? I also thought my character level was 6, so I took the feat.
Arstimis 03-03-04, 01:18 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005, actually it was myself I didn't know that about leadership either, but that isn't the major problem of the fight. The problem with the fight is how entanglement was handled. Go ahead and let the allie stay for this fight. My eagle and I both passed our reflex saves for both of the entanglements, that was dealt with. Then I just had to move half my speed, and the eagle could move up and be out of its reach. What does everyone else think about this mistake. @ Magagumo: Could you please address/change how you mishandled entangle in my fight you moderated
Ethendril 03-03-04, 01:23 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis @ Magagumo: Could you please address/change how you mishandled entangle in my fight you moderated He already posted that he was going to. I think he's doing it right now... @All: The description in the PHB states the following: "Character level: A character's total level. For a character with levels in only one class, class level and character level are the same thing." So "class level" isn't the same as "character level". I have a "level adjustment" of +4, so the +4 "level adjustment," +3 "class levels" = "character level" 7. This should qualify for the feat, because my levels are adjusted up by 4. Feedback, please. I'd really like that feat back. -Ethendril
SnarkHunter 03-03-04, 01:26 PM	No I think Mag was a bit confused; ECL is only used for money and XP (which doesn't apply here, but is whats used to figure fight standing.) For everything important you use "class level" which is "Character level" without HD. Character level is equal to your class levels+HD. Donkey for instance while ECL 6, is only a 4th level character.
Ethendril 03-03-04, 01:28 PM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter No I think Mag was a bit confused; ECL is only used for money and XP (which doesn't apply here, but is whats used to figure fight standing.) For everything important you use "class level" which is "Character level" without HD. Character level is equal to your class levels+HD. Donkey for instance while ECL 6, is only a 4th level character. Well where does it say that? I just posted the language from the PHB, and it doesn't say you add HD. I think my level adjustment would put me there.
Jindl 03-03-04, 01:37 PM	@Ethendril - Hopefully this will explain it: Class level - the level in a specific class. Used as a prereq for some feats (like weapon specialization). Character level - your number of HD. These HD could be all racial HD (like a heavy warhorse has a character level of 3) or all class HD (like a fighter 3 has a character level of 3) or a mix (like an Ogre Fighter 2 has 4 racial HD and 2 class HD = character level 6). Character level is used to determine when you gain ability score boosts and new feats. It is also used to determine max ranks in skills, and other effects that rely on character level (such as how spell effects vary based on a targets character level), as well as for a prereq for certain feats (like Leadership, which requires character level 6). Effective Character Level (ECL) - Your character level plus your level adjustment. Used only for determining experience points to go up a level, and appropriate wealth per level (and in the Coliseum, determining what tier your character is ranked at). So you see, that a pixie rogue 3 has a class level of 3, a character level of 3, and an ECL of 7. More info on this can be found in the FAQ. -Jindl
Magagumo 03-03-04, 01:38 PM	Then where does this put us for the fight? At this point, considering how, yes, I screwed up Entangle, but it seems Ethendril's cohort was illegial, should we simply let the pair fix up chars (no item changes, just fix the cohort) and re-send tactics for me this week? That way, I'm not rushed to run a fight with broken chars and they each have a chance to write tactics better reflecting the new situation? (Ethendril's tactics focus heavily on cohort assistance, so I hate to see him have broken tactics because of this.) So, if the Elder Mods agree that Ethendril shouldn't have the leadership (Cat, Jindl, and Snark all state this, and I'm just as inclined to believe their arguements in this case), would a delay of fight be most appropriate?
Ethendril 03-03-04, 01:58 PM	Mag: I don't think I would be prejudiced running the fight without my cohort. I basically said that my cohort would do everything I did, but I don't think it matters if she's not there. From my side, feel free to run the fight without modification of my tactics (I think Arstimis just said 'ignore his cohort', so his shouldn't change). If you do rerun the fight, just remember that I had a contingency for finding him if he's hidden from me (See Step 2). -Ethendril
Magagumo 03-03-04, 02:02 PM	If thats what you guys want, then I can handle that.. less Hide/MS/S/L rolls for me honestly (I wonder if we can just roll one die for each roll per side ;))?
Arstimis 03-03-04, 03:34 PM	I don't mind if the allie is there or not, but if it is against the rules, then I guess it shouldn't. I really don't think we should resend tactics...that would ruin me
Magagumo 03-03-04, 03:38 PM	Edit: I've changed my mind (slightly) you can see my extensive notes when I post.
Magagumo 03-03-04, 05:31 PM	As I mentioned in the tavern, Kiri vs. Kiowen is done. I took a few liberties toward the end to prevent the waiting of 300 rounds before we could conclude the fight... but you can judge it for yourself.
Arstimis 03-03-04, 05:42 PM	Just one more question before i read through all of the fight, Can i ask why in the world i remained in the vines as long as i did? The most logical thing anyone would do is get away from something that is messing you up oh nm..i see since i didnt get out of it the first round...grrrrr. oh, and can i ask why you did str checks...my escape artist is +1 higher..and would have gotten me out in round 10...might have made the fight go by faster
Magagumo 03-03-04, 05:50 PM	Your dex was lowered by 4 for being entangled ( I forgot this in the first run) so it was a +1 vs. your +2 Strength check
Druid Roxors 03-03-04, 05:51 PM	Originally Posted By MagagumoHe darts to a nearby rock, and begins to cast from the scroll in hand, but an opportunistic vine drags it downwards (Conc: 2+12=14 vs. 17, fails), causing his spell to fail. (H: 15+13-20=8, MS: 0) (S: 18+11-19=10, pass) Oportunistic vines cannot interrupt your spells if you are not entangled! This is round one, vines will not attempt entangles until the fae's next turn.
Magagumo 03-03-04, 05:54 PM	*Looks at pst, sighs* You are correct, sir, I apologize for yet another error, but could we not concede that ebcause Kiowen was unable to get off any successful atatck vs. Kiri, that given time she would have easily destroyed the images. I mean, yes, this throws more wrenches, but the fight could simply have been delayed till See Invis wore off (with Kir having used approx 30 arrows to test, but only needing perhaps 5 to kill Kiowen). Sorry to keep screwing up, but soemtimes ones brain just eventually becomes fried, you know? ^_^;;
Arstimis 03-03-04, 05:56 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Your dex was lowered by 4 for being entangled ( I forgot this in the first run) so it was a +1 vs. your +2 Strength check Oh ok...and you made another mistake....Mod’s Notes: Alright, kids, Kiowen needs to crit on his x-bow to hurt Kiri, and see needs to catch him flat-footed, so at this point, I’m going to pull the strings and make this end before 30 min have passed. Kiowen’s hands will be occupied whenever he reloads or fires and Kiri will begin to hold her action to fire, but cannot sneak attack because he knows she’s there. If one side runs out of bolts, then we will see what Kiri does in melee, but likely Kiowen will be stung to death when she once again goes invisible That is not true at all..as it has been done before in my previous fights, i can take a hand off my crossbow as a free action, so i always have one hand free. Also Kiowen has rapid reload...she shouldnt have been able to hit him for 30 min, and he should have had around 30 min to try and get criticals.....I dont think its really fair to "pull strings'' to make it unfair for one character so the fight goes by faster
Jindl 03-03-04, 06:26 PM	Forgive any frustration in my tone ... but enough is enough. Re: Concentration checks in the entangle Magagumo is correct in requiring a concentration check while within an entangle. The vines are not creatures, they are an ongoing distracting spell effect. In truth, the Concentration DC should have been 18 + spell level, since the skill check DC is based on the entangle's save DC. But, regardless, his checks were fine, and the spells you lost concentration on you would still have lost concentration on had the DC been 2 higher. Re: Ready to shoot when you reload Magagumo did this correct as well. Rapid Reload does not give you the ability to reload with one hand. If Kiri is readying to shoot when you reload, her action will occur before you can drop your hand as a free action. Kiri will get to fire at Kiowen when Kiowen reloads, and Kiowen will not get to block that attack. Re: Rapid Reload Kiowen could have been firing shots faster. But even if you did get a critical hit, Kiri just flies behind cover and activates her wand of cure light wounds. At this point you should just let it go. Pairings are tomorrow. Update your characters and be done with it. ************************ Next time, buy some cold iron arrows if the pixie is the same level as you. And Ethendril, spend your winnings to enhance your bow to be flaming, shock, or frost. Or get some poisoned arrows, or do something to prevent every fight from turning into this kind of foolishness. You should both Thank Magagumo for spending this much time on it, as well as for being sooo willing to work with you. -Jindl
Ethendril 03-03-04, 06:29 PM	@ Arstimis: I understand that you're upset. But don't forget that Kiri also has flyby attack and a shortsword, and could have attacked you each round in that manner rather than with the bow each turn. You could only damage me with a critical hit, and then I had a wand of cure light wounds. I'm not sure what to do at this point. I'd like to get my character ready for next week, and at some point there needs to be a cutoff to the fight reworking. -Ethendril And Ethendril, spend your winnings to enhance your bow to be flaming, shock, or frost. Or get some poisoned arrows, or do something to prevent every fight from turning into this kind of foolishness. Take it easy on me...I thought I had my bases covered with my cohort, and the fight when I had her additional dispel and sneak attacks was much quicker. Also, I sent a PM to Mag to express my gratitude for his efforts, which I know were extensive.
Arstimis 03-03-04, 06:39 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril @ Arstimis: I understand that you're upset. But don't forget that Kiri also has flyby attack and a shortsword, and could have attacked you each round in that manner rather than with the bow each turn. You could only damage me with a critical hit, and then I had a wand of cure light wounds. I'm not sure what to do at this point. I'd like to get my character ready for next week, and at some point there needs to be a cutoff to the fight reworking. -Ethendril You really wanna try your fly by with your short sword? My fists could hurt you without being a critical... i should have had twice as many chances to do a critical but since Jindl said so, i will drop it... can i ask why i fight the annoying things...first anna, now kiri. I bet i get the half-celestial next.... And thank you mag for redoing the fight and giving me a more of a fair chance
Tellish_of_Ket 03-03-04, 07:00 PM	Originally posted by Caterane Good work Jindl. I agree with all three points. *worldexplodes* Actually he made 4 points :D And i agree with all four. -ToK
Druid Roxors 03-03-04, 07:01 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Re: Concentration checks in the entangle Magagumo is correct in requiring a concentration check while within an entangle. The vines are not creatures, they are an ongoing distracting spell effect. In truth, the Concentration DC should have been 18 + spell level, since the skill check DC is based on the entangle's save DC. But, regardless, his checks were fine, and the spells you lost concentration on you would still have lost concentration on had the DC been 2 higher. -Jindl So, If you fail to escape entanglement, you would have to do 2 checks? One for 15+spell level and one for 10+1+mod+spell level? This is wrong right? otherwise entangle would be one of the best interruption spells arround.
Arstimis 03-03-04, 07:07 PM	I didnt really look at this at first, but what Druid said is true...there is nothing i can find about making that second check. I passed my reflex save...i am not engtangled, so there shouldnt be a Concentration check that round But since i didnt get out of the way, I have no clue why this I wouldnt have, but oh well, next round i became entangled, then i have to make concentration checks
Rosella 03-03-04, 07:28 PM	Just for the record; It IS impossible to get a scroll of warp wood. It just doesn't exist, nor can it be made! (As far as I know, one cannot create new spells) I'm also having trouble with the fact that one can buy a pegasus and use it as a mount for only 3k...
Druid Roxors 03-03-04, 07:30 PM	Which would mean that spells that damage over time like ice storm require a concentration check for enviromental effects/Distraction AND damage.
MotherBast 03-03-04, 07:30 PM	If you are in the radius of a spell that has an ongoing effect, you must check vs. distraction. In the event of entangle, if you are in the radius, and not entangled, you make one check vs. the distraction. If you are entangled, you must make the check vs. entangle, and then the check vs. distraction. So yeah, its a good disruption spell. Another good one is Ice Storm. It lasts a full round, so they must check against it on there turn for weather too.
MotherBast 03-03-04, 07:32 PM	wow, we posted the same thing at the same time. Great minds druid.
Druid Roxors 03-03-04, 07:33 PM	hehe :)
Magagumo 03-03-04, 08:17 PM	Hmm, yea, Rapid Reload *mutters* Thx Jindl and Ethendril... :) Btw, Ethendril, you have all the cash from your cohort, and the feat... If I could give some advice, get that +1 bow, and maybe pick up Point Blank Shot? You need to be within 30', and if you had had the feat and the bow, that fight would have gone much faster (negates that nasty -1 ;). Yea, cold iron arrows are cheap :) I hope Bruno fights you someday Ethendril, I think Kiri would be really good vs. him... (invisible, DR, good SR, I will challenge you when you reach me, I promise).
Ethendril 03-03-04, 08:46 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo If I could give some advice, get that +1 bow, and maybe pick up Point Blank Shot? You need to be within 30', and if you had had the feat and the bow, that fight would have gone much faster (negates that nasty -1 ;). Yea, cold iron arrows are cheap :) I hope Bruno fights you someday Ethendril, I think Kiri would be really good vs. him... (invisible, DR, good SR, I will challenge you when you reach me, I promise). Thanks for the advice, Mag...I'm torn with what to do as far as the bow goes. I am going sorcerer and arcane trickster from here on out, so I'll be using spells, and hate to spend too much on that bow. And I'd like nothing better than to be high enough level to fight Bruno!:D
Jindl 03-03-04, 10:49 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis I didnt really look at this at first, but what Druid said is true...there is nothing i can find about making that second check. I passed my reflex save...i am not engtangled, so there shouldnt be a Concentration check that round But since i didnt get out of the way, I have no clue why this I wouldnt have, but oh well, next round i became entangled, then i have to make concentration checks As for making multiple concentration checks, check the PHB pg 70. "If more than one type of distraction is present, make a check for each one; any failed concentration check indicates that the task is not completed." The entangled condition is one "distraction", with a base DC of 15+spell level. The distracted by a nondamaging spell is another "distraction", with a base DC of [Spells save DC]+spell level. So yes, you make two concentration checks if you failed your save vs Entangle, or one concentration check if you made your save. Yes it is a great disruption spell, as long as your opponent isn't flying. -Jindl
Jindl 03-03-04, 10:53 PM	Originally posted by Rosella Just for the record; It IS impossible to get a scroll of warp wood. It just doesn't exist, nor can it be made! (As far as I know, one cannot create new spells) I'm also having trouble with the fact that one can buy a pegasus and use it as a mount for only 3k... 1. The arena rules say that you can buy a scroll of any spell. The warp wood scroll does appear in the DMG (check the divine scrolls, pg 242.) Regardless, it is a scroll and scrolls can be purchased with any spell, at any caster level, with any desired metamagic feats (within the Core rules). So, feel free to buy a scroll: warp wood, though you'll need to be a druid or have a great use magic device in order to use it. 2. The price of a pegasus is clearly written in the Core rules. Realize that there are other restrictions (such as you must be a good or neutral person in order for the pegasus to follow you). If you think it is such a bargain, then buy one. :D -Jindl
Rosella 03-04-04, 04:45 AM	well, i intended to spend a feat and 1k for training, but now it simply costs 3k for me as I do have enough handle animal. This gives me a free unexpected feat.
Arstimis 03-04-04, 10:29 AM	Originally posted by Rosella well, i intended to spend a feat and 1k for training, but now it simply costs 3k for me as I do have enough handle animal. This gives me a free unexpected feat. If you planned on getting leadership to only get the pegasus, then by all means, use the money. Leadership is usually used to get a more specialized allie with class levels