Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Druid Roxors 03-06-04, 07:36 PM	Welcome! Please post all your concerns with the Fights of this week here! Please be courteous to our Gods/Dungeon Masters/Mods/Referees/Fight Masters/...
Druid Roxors 03-06-04, 07:37 PM	Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican Corinthus Avius, Druid_Roxors vs. Enilias Surion, Kaigan is posted. I hope you dont mind, but I found some really important mistakes that could change the battle's results. Round 4: Enilias is determined to reach open ground and writhes dextrously out of the clinging vines but can not escape the phantom flames. (escape artist: 17+5=22 vs DC20, success) He turns his horse and begins to ride out of the vines.Escaping takes a full round action, as per description in PHB. He can't try to escape untill the next round, with another Reflex save and half speed. Corinthus sees his enemy slip out of his bounds and whispers an airy, but filthy Auran curse. He again casts entangle with its magic centered on the elf and his warhorse. (entangle: Enilias 16+6=22 vs DC15, success; mount 10+5=15 vs DC15, success)I shouldn't cast this spell yet, he is still under the entanglement area, Even if I did cast it, he needs to save Twice. Each spell separately and each round thereafter. Round 5: -Missing entangle checks- Round 6 and later rounds: Cats Grace, Barkskin and Cover not accounted for. Entanglement from previous rounds. Etc.
Kaigan 03-06-04, 11:15 PM	Umm... In the spell entangle I only have to make the save once. My horse passed his save and therefore was able to move at halk speed out of the affected area. The same thing happened on the second spell. I did win fair and square.
Arstimis 03-06-04, 11:37 PM	Sorry Magagumo, there are a few things messed up in this fight as well.As Spike pointed at to me, Silence is only on the Cleric and Bard spell list. Refund the scroll after the fight. The DMG has silence as a 2nd level arcane scroll. I dont know where Spike got that from? The major mistake of the fight was how Shield was handled. Shield negates magic missles....that is 28 HP i should still have. Pretty big difference if i say so myself. but other than that, it looked ok
Magagumo 03-06-04, 11:39 PM	Who yea.. lets go fix that shield business right now. Jeez, I think I get feeblemind cast on myself when I start running your fights, Artismis ;) As for Silence, look at the Spell description, its under Arcane scrolls because Bards are arcane casters. If you look at higher level scrolls, you'll see there are ones of Sculpt Sound, but thats also Bard only... Edit: Alright, it's all fixed up. 18 Rounds now, but hopefully run correctly now.
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 05:43 AM	Originally posted by Kaigan Umm... In the spell entangle I only have to make the save once. My horse passed his save and therefore was able to move at halk speed out of the affected area. The same thing happened on the second spell. I did win fair and square. Instead of being so sure about things, you could at least check the phb. You did remember the affected area has a 40ft radius? 3.5 SRD Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement.
Hatzinger 03-07-04, 06:39 AM	would anyone look into this fight and tell me if i misunderstood the tactics, please? especially laucianīs tactics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2778528#post2772611)
Alterlat 03-07-04, 08:49 AM	Edit: Issue doesn't affect fight
MotherBast 03-07-04, 10:04 AM	Celler: In the Brackin fight, Bilo used Dust of Choaking and Sneezing on Brackin. First, what and where is this item? I can't find it in the PHB under equipment, nor can I locate it in the DMG under magic items. Secondly, Brackin made his save vs. this dust, whatever it is, yet still recived the effects? [edit] Ah, found it. A cursed item. Now, I still have a few issues. First of all, to use the dust it must me "cast into the air." So, he can't just throw the bag at my square. Secondly, it is a 20ft. radius spread, so if he ever does "cast into the air", then he would also be in the radius. Remember magic items must be activated in very specific ways. If it is activated by "tossing to the ground", droping wont acctivate it. In this case, the dust has to be 'cast into the air." The bag can't simply be thrown. Still, that dosen't matter, see my next point. Secondly, dust of choaking and sneezing is a magic poison (see the spell type, it would be identified as poision.) Brackin is immune to all poisons, even magical ones. I belive Brackin would never have been stuned, and should get to press the attack on Bilo the round the dust was thrown. I will not insist you re-run or anything, but I would be very thankful if you chose to start from the point Brackin was errounsly stuned and continue the fight.
Magagumo 03-07-04, 10:26 AM	Actually, MB, Bilo wears a necklace of adaptation, so he simply does not need to breathe. Reading the Poison spell, it does state that it afflicts the subject with a horrible poison, but that may just be flavor text. Thusly, as the dust is tied to the spell, I think a decision needs to eb made if the monk's "immunity to all kinds of poison," would affect the Spell, or if it is all just flavor text. One note, as the dust is a magical effect, based on an item, SR would most likely apply in the future. Frankly, I'm not sure if monks are immune to this or not. Certainly, the possibility of being unaffaected by a spell is attractive for MB (and unattractive for Snark), but is the spell's name and description simply a pretty wrapping for a necromancy spell that deals ability damage?
MotherBast 03-07-04, 10:34 AM	Humm... I did not think of Bilo not breathing. That is.... superb.... If that is how it went, then I bow to Snarky's greatness. I will check the positions to see. But monks are immune to poisons of "all kinds", and this is a magical poison, so I was immune. I am also immune to the poison spell, as in "inflects the victom with venomus poison." So any magic poison items I will also be immune to, such as this one. [edit] I checked the fight, and while that may have been how Bilo intended to use the item, in the fight, Celler made an attack roll vs. Brackin's square, and Brackin was more than 20ft. from Bilo when the dust was used. So, the dust was used in error. If the dust could be used this way, everyone would buy it, and fights would come down to who won init and through the dust first, as it would be an automatic stun, with an avarage of 10 rounds to then kill your opponit. The way Mag described is a brilent use of the dust, but the way it was used in this fight was incorrect. And still, Brackin would be immune, as he is immune to the poison spell. As I said, I won't insist on a re-run, but I wouldn't mind it. What I really want is just to make others aware of this for the future. This dust can not be used in this way. It will spread 20ft. from the point of its activation, which will be centered on its user's square. I also want to make sure that in the future fight mods remember Brackin's imunities. I usually post them in my tactics, and I can see how this one would have been easly looked over, since the description of the dust dosen't directly state it is a poison. Celler would have had to look at the dust stats to see it is poison based. I should have done the resurch on that one my self and put it in my tactics. Still, as far as this fight goes, the dust didn't even reach Brackin's square, since Bilo was more than 20' away when he used it.
Magagumo 03-07-04, 10:46 AM	Since the dust cannot be used in such a way, by mistake of cellerdweller, its throwing should be rescinded altogether. As for Bilo using it.. since celladwellar did throw Brackin a little help due to Glitterdust, perhaps it would be fair to retract Bilo's use of the dust altogther (as it was MOd error to ntot notivce that its use would be ineffective, not attacking you cellar, I was confused too). Thusly, erhaps Bilo will take some other offensiveaction listed in Bilo's tactics (Emp M or some such) while Brackin puts "him on the defensive." Shall we see where it goes from there, cellar?
sshuit 03-07-04, 10:48 AM	@mag: Good fight! Roger didn't particularly want to hurt that innocent little Fey anyways. sshuit
SnarkHunter 03-07-04, 10:49 AM	Brackin I admit you may be correct. This could be a situation where a board wide or at least elder mod vote would be handy. The description of the spell does not mention immunity as it does in Cloudkill, but of course the writers may simply have assumed the obvious :rolleyes:, which is always a bad idea :D. In the mean time given the position of us both at round two, I would most likely respond with a TK anyway. The 1st could be an Impromptu sneak attack and all roles hit your AC for dmg of 9d10+4d6, which on average roles would pummel you into oblivion. that would also save me the use of the dust... But I suppose its up to Cellar if he wants to change it.
MotherBast 03-07-04, 11:02 AM	Actually, I think since Bilo coould have moved forward a bit and used the dust, he would have done so. Only then whould he have realized Brackin was immune. Also, I checked the description of the dust. One does not have to breath to be effected, they just have to be in the radius. The end result would be that Bilo would have been effected, and Brackin would not have been. I think since it was in Snark's tactics to use the dust, it wasen't a mod error to use it. The only mod error was the way it was used. If the method it was used is corrected, the the error then would be Snarks, and Bilo would pay the price.
Bishop the Bardican 03-07-04, 11:31 AM	@Druid_Roxors I am going to deal with your points in the order that they were presented in your first post about the fight. 1. (escape artist full round action): If you succeed at a full round escape artist or strength check in an entangle spell, you can move half of your speed in the round. 2. (multiple entangle checks): You are totally right. I had my PHB open to the description of Entangle for most of the fight and I still missed the last paragraph. 3. (your AC in the late rounds): cat's grace and barkskin are listed as affecting you (I only used the initials after the first round). Look at your ever-changing AC in the attack roles. As for cover, I kept you in cover until your tactics said for you to move towards Corinthus while casting cat's grace and barkskin. To move towards him you will have to leave cover. With his speed advantage and your need to reach medium range for your spells, cover will be impossible after you move to engage him. I will be rerunning the fight with the extra entangle checks, this afternoon. Sorry, that I missed something.
SnarkHunter 03-07-04, 11:54 AM	Well Brackin lets think about this logically. Bilo is a Super-genius. Why exactly would he use something that he knew his opponent was immune to? In point of fact, Cellardwellar had PMed me about the dust and then PMed me again to say that he had decided my use was appropriate. If he had decided you were immune I would of had a chance to change my tactics to reflect this. So that's what I posted just now-tactics changed to reflect a discrepany in the rules which would impact the fight, as per our custom. As for merely being in the area of the dust to be affected I had assumed that since the necklace of adaption made me immune to airborn effects, and the dust-as it had to be cast into the air-was an airborn effect, I was immune to it. There is an alternative explanation if it is found that your interpreation of the poison spell vis a vis the dust is correct. Since the Amulet makes me immune to inhaled poisions I would still not be affected. And neither would you. Ergo, it would be altogether foolish for my tactics to persist in that manner. I am the architect...
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 01:13 PM	Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican @Druid_Roxors I am going to deal with your points in the order that they were presented in your first post about the fight.Thanks for reviewing the points Bishop, but I still have some doubts. Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican 1. (escape artist full round action): If you succeed at a full round escape artist or strength check in an entangle spell, you can move half of your speed in the round. 3.5 SRD, Entangle Spell description: The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist checkThis is a pretty confusing line, but if you take a deep analisys you can find that it says that you Use your full round action to make a check AND you may move at half speed, when you have another action, since you used a full round action already. Even if that were the case, he still cannot double-move or run, and would still have to check next round. Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican 2. (multiple entangle checks): You are totally right. I had my PHB open to the description of Entangle for most of the fight and I still missed the last paragraph.Yes, please look into it. Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican 3. (your AC in the late rounds): cat's grace and barkskin are listed as affecting you (I only used the initials after the first round). Look at your ever-changing AC in the attack roles. As for cover, I kept you in cover until your tactics said for you to move towards Corinthus while casting cat's grace and barkskin. To move towards him you will have to leave cover. With his speed advantage and your need to reach medium range for your spells, cover will be impossible after you move to engage him.My cover revoled around keeping my wolf aiding my AC at all times. My tactics mention keeping Perductoris in front of me granting me +4 AC from ranged attacks, as per PHB. 3.5 SRD, Cover: To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target's square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC). Thanks for reviewing the fight Bishop
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 01:20 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger would anyone look into this fight and tell me if i misunderstood the tactics, please? especially laucianīs tactics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2778528#post2772611) Originally posted by Laucian and Hatzinger *If he has his crossbow out i will move to within 100 ft of him and drink the Potion of Shield, stopping those pesky magic missles. huh??? Next round I will quick draw my greatsword make my horse double move, or charge, and attack with my greatsword. He means to say that he is inmune to Magic missiles because of the potion, and the enemy woulnd't realize. (check shield description) Edit: That potion does not exist, thats very strange... Originally posted by Hatzinger and Lucian*If he does not have his crossbow out, then see if he seems to be casting a spell, or readying a spell for when i get close enough. Make spellcraft checks. you canīt see if anyone is readying anything. you could identify a spell being cast with your spellcraft, but guessing the actions of others is just not possible. That is correct. You cannot use spellcraft checks to see if he is readying a spell. BUT, another approach would have worked. For instance, "If the enemy does not take a standard action (or a dobule move/full action) suspect he is readying a spell." But, that would be metagaming in part of the DM, since the tactics are based on a wrong premise.
Arstimis 03-07-04, 01:23 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors He means to say that he is inmune to Magic missiles because of the potion, and the enemy woulnd't realize. (check shield description) Thats not it...there actually isnt a potion of shield....i though there was The problem is i said i wanted to stay 100 ft away, if he didnt have his crossbow out. The reason is i knew he would cast a spell if he did have his crossbow out...its that simple. But he had me charge right into the death trap that color spray was.If he does not have his crossbow out, then see if he seems to be casting a spell, or readying a spell for when i get close enough. Make spellcraft checks. Next round move within 100 ft from him, drink Potion of Shield, and quickdraw longbow. I will shoot with longbow, untill he switches to his crossbow. As soon as he switches i will quickdraw greatsword and charge in. Is it that hard to tell that i wanted to stay 100 ft away when he didnt have his crossbow out. 100 ft because that is my charging range, and my bow range. I had 17 more arrows to use...they should have been used. Once he switched to his crossbow, THEN i would charge in
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 01:47 PM	Thanks for reviewing the fight, but it seems that my last post came at the same time than the update, please check a few points there. Also, consider this from my tactics, which would have been perfectly fitting at the moment. Originally Posted by Druid Roxors - If in dire trouble, use WindWall arround me, He won't know its there or why he misses. Sorry for being so picky, but i cannot believe the Lucian's luck! my AC was so high and his attack rating so low!! Edit: Acording to my AC, his critical wouldn't have been confirmed unless he runned a 20-20! + he has -4 for entanglement. AAHHH!! he is so LUCKY!"$!
Kaigan 03-07-04, 02:57 PM	@Druid_Roxers Yes, you were right and i was wrong. Sorry to appear as a jerk. I was a bit hasty and i apologize.
Hatzinger 03-07-04, 02:58 PM	Arstimis, i am not a native speaker as you are, but as far as i know, moving to WITHIN 100 ft. of someone means that you want to move to a point that is closer to him than 100 feet. Am i mistaken at that point?
Arstimis 03-07-04, 03:05 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger Arstimis, i am not a native speaker as you are, but as far as i know, moving to WITHIN 100 ft. of someone means that you want to move to a point that is closer to him than 100 feet. Am i mistaken at that point? Yes, within does mean a point closer than 100 feet, i seem to have misread my own tactics as i made the last post. Sorry but the main point is still that i didnt want to charge, or even get near melee, until he had his crossbow out. If someone is sitting their waiting for me to do something. I am sure Laucian could figure out he is getting ready to cast a spell. I wanted to stay at some kind of range. Once he pulled his crossbow out, THEN i go into melee. Edit: When you have a will save of -1, you dont want to get to close to someone with color spray, unless they arent able to cast it. ie shooting a crossbow at me.
Hatzinger 03-07-04, 03:14 PM	@Arstimis for the last time: YOU HAD NO CHANCE OF KNOWING IF HE HAD EVEN MEMORIZED COLOUR SPRAY. PRETENDING TO KNOW WOULD BE PURE META-GAMING!!!
Arstimis 03-07-04, 03:20 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger @Arstimis for the last time: YOU HAD NO CHANCE OF KNOWING IF HE HAD EVEN MEMORIZED COLOUR SPRAY. PRETENDING TO KNOW WOULD BE PURE META-GAMING!!! It was right there on his character sheet. What is the point of tactics if you cant look at a character sheet. What you should have yelled at me was "My character had no chance of knowing if he was going to cast color spray" But my character knew there was a chance he could cast color spray, and he didnt want to risk it. That is why my tactics said charge ONLY with he switched to greatsword. Can you tell me what else would be going through any characters head when they see a wizard jump down off a column and stand and stare at you. 'Maybe he just wants to give me a hug'. 'Maybe he wants to kill me'. Nope, i dont think so. Its 'He wants me to get close so he can cast a spell on me' Ok, forget it was even color spray. Be it any spell, i dont want to get close. What kind of stupid character would run into a trap, when he has other means to attack safely? Edit: You saying my charcter has no chance of knowing that he could cast color spray is like saying He has no clue that my character is a mounted fighter. It must have been meta-gaming if he looked on my character sheet as was able to tell that i was a fighter
Hatzinger 03-07-04, 03:39 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis Ok, forget it was even color spray. Be it any spell, i dont want to get close. What kind of stupid character would run into a trap, when he has other means to attack safely? @Arstimis: 1) on his character sheet, he mentioned that he had memorized: Spells Memorized (4+s/2+s+b) (total:5/4) 0: Ray of Frost (s), Resistance, x, x, x 1: Mage Armor, Shield, x, x where do you see any mention of "colour spray"? 2) you stated that you wanted to go closer than 100 ft. and that you did. so what? 3) (and most importantly): YOU HAD NO OTHER MEANS OF ATTACKING HIM SAFELY! I already argued in the tavern that you were no match for him in ranged combat. (boiling down to: "he had +7 ranged with AC23+cover, while you had +3ranged with AC15.") So you basically had the choices of being: a) killed by his MUCH better ranged skills while you canīt kill him because of his MUCH better AC. b) or attack him in melee; the one thing that you could do much better than him. Letīs focus on this option number b). - you had no chance of knowing if he had readied anything, if he had delayed anything or if he had just done nothing else in this round. Anything else would be metagaming. (I am sure you have heard of this concept). - you didnīt know that he had memorized colourspray. the only thing you knew for sure and without metagaming was that he had memorized mage armor and shield. he already had cast one other magic missile and had only one other spell left, perhaps another 1d4+1 magic missile. - you are a good melee fighter and melee was the only way you even had a CHANCE of piercing his AC. AND, you had the help of your warhorse in melee, which adds to another 3 attacks against the mage; and at lvl 2, these extra 3 attacks are quite important. under these conditions and in the full knowledge that you were going to be killed if you stayed away and kept on trying ranged combat, you took your only chance. and now you want to tell me that you only lost because of i, the moderator, misunderstood or ignored your tactics..... i am getting tired of this. you lost, and thats it for me. i will comment no more.
Arstimis 03-07-04, 03:54 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger @Arstimis: 1) on his character sheet, he mentioned that he had memorized: where do you see any mention of "colour spray"? Then why did i make mention of color spray in my tactics then? 3) (and most importantly): YOU HAD NO OTHER MEANS OF ATTACKING HIM SAFELY! I already argued in the tavern that you were no match for him in ranged combat. (boiling down to: "he had +7 ranged with AC23+cover, while you had +3ranged with AC15.") So you basically had the choices of being: a) killed by his MUCH better ranged skills while you canīt kill him because of his MUCH better AC. Please tell me how hes gonna attack me ranged, when he DOESNT have his crossbow? Because in my tactics i said i would be in range when he DOESNT have his crossbow. Once he pulls out his crossbow, THEN i get in melee, because that gives me at least another attack before he can cast a spell. There was a point to my tactics. I wasnt just talking to myself. b) or attack him in melee; the one thing that you could do much better than him. Letīs focus on this option number b). - you had no chance of knowing if he had readied anything, if he had delayed anything or if he had just done nothing else in this round. Anything else would be metagaming. (I am sure you have heard of this concept). Actually it can be pretty easily figured out that someone is getting ready to do something to you. If they dont do anything when they normally would. Use common sense. I stand with a big hammer, 10 feet from you, and you see me. You could very easily assume that I am going to swing the hammer at you when you get close enough - you didnīt know that he had memorized colourspray. the only thing you knew for sure and without metagaming was that he had memorized mage armor and shield. he already had cast one other magic missile and had only one other spell left, perhaps another 1d4+1 magic missile. What in his spellbook. BINGO! Color spray. His spell book is part of his equipment, I do get to know what type of equipment is has right? - you are a good melee fighter and melee was the only way you even had a CHANCE of piercing his AC. AND, you had the help of your warhorse in melee, which adds to another 3 attacks against the mage; and at lvl 2, these extra 3 attacks are quite important. Crit's always hit. I had 20 arrows, whats the point of having 20 arrows if i dont try and use them? There are other ways to attack him, rather than running into his color spray like i want to die. under these conditions and in the full knowledge that you were going to be killed if you stayed away and kept on trying ranged combat, you took your only chance. See, here you go again, thinking you know what is best for my character. I made tactics because I knew what was best for him. That is why my tactics were a couple paragraphs long rather than a couple sentences "Since my character can only do anything in Melee, he will charge on his horse and attack with his greatsword. Nothing else matters, because that is all he is good at" and now you want to tell me that you only lost because of i, the moderator, misunderstood or ignored your tactics..... No, more like I'm telling you that you did what YOU thought my character should do, not what I thought he should do[/b][/quote] i am getting tired of this. you lost, and thats it for me. i will comment no more. Me and my friends figured you would do this...even if you were wrong
Bishop the Bardican 03-07-04, 04:00 PM	@Druid_Roxors Yeah, I missed the wolf/cover thing which would have negated the critical. I have to compliment you for keeping a cool head and posting politely despite major problems interpreting your tactics. I really need to work on my other fight. Monday morning I have a couple of hours to rerunning the fight from you leaving cover. The only argument that I have is the windwall. Your tactics say that I should use it around you which would be the circular version centered on Corinthus. You are still trying to move within medium range at this point and would move past the spell's radius quickly. It would make sense in this case to use the straight wall version of the spell, but as this is not mentioned in your tactics, I just can not see allowing this change. Your character still has a lot of ground to cover before he can begin attacking and pausing your main tactics to give you a few rounds of safety would be delaying the inevitable.
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 04:12 PM	Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican @Druid_Roxors Yeah, I missed the wolf/cover thing which would have negated the critical. I have to compliment you for keeping a cool head and posting politely despite major problems interpreting your tactics. I really need to work on my other fight. Monday morning I have a couple of hours to rerunning the fight from you leaving cover. The only argument that I have is the windwall. Your tactics say that I should use it around you which would be the circular version centered on Corinthus. You are still trying to move within medium range at this point and would move past the spell's radius quickly. It would make sense in this case to use the straight wall version of the spell, but as this is not mentioned in your tactics, I just can not see allowing this change. Your character still has a lot of ground to cover before he can begin attacking and pausing your main tactics to give you a few rounds of safety would be delaying the inevitable. No problem, its nonsence to get all heated up by a game. About the wind wall, it is a spell with medium range, I can even enclose him instead of me and save me the trouble of calculations. Or make a U shaped shield in front of me. (that would be, 100ft away from him.) Please, take your time, Im not in a hurry.
MotherBast 03-07-04, 06:17 PM	@Snark: Humm... I did not realize you had had a conversation about wether or not the dust would work... since he told you it would work, it would be his error, and not yours, and Bilo probably would not have used it. As far as the neclace of adaptation, it protects you from all vapors, gases, and inhaled poisons. The dust dosen't specificaly say it has to be inhaled. It could work on body contact alone, like pepper spray or mace. No need to breeth it. Still, that isen't an issue since you would not have used it. @Hatzinger: I have heard you mention twice now that Arti's tactics were Meta-gaming. I'm afraid you are makeing an error here. All gladiators have access to knowledge about what resorces and abilites all other gladiators have. It is common practice to base tactics on what spells an opponit is likely to prepare. In this case, Arti assumed his opponit prepared the color spray, and it was his right to do so. The fact is, you made a conchious decision to ignore the tactics because you didn't think they would be effective. That is not your place. If a gladiator had told you to use a wand of magic missle every round, and you knew his opponit had a brooch of shilding, it is still your job as the mod to do exactly as the tactics command. Unless strictly told to do so by the gladiator, the mod is required to hold to the tactics above all else, and improvise only when the tactics CAN NOT be carried out, not when the tactics are uneffective. You made a mistake. Still, your a young mod, and you did what you did thinking it was best for the character. You will learn from this mistake, and in the future, I am sure you will remember not to "think for" the gladiators, as that is concidered even worse than making a rules error. Still, you shold admit to Atri that you did not follow his tactis, and simply appoligise. To tell him why you didn't follow the tactics is an admision that you didn't, which means you, as a mod, have made a mistake. Own up, and appoligise. Learn, and move on. And Arti, you have to admit, your odds were slim in this one, so if Hat says he is sorry for leaving the scope of your tactics, will you agree to put it behind?
Jindl 03-07-04, 06:42 PM	@Hatz and Arsti - I second everything MotherBast just said. @MotherBast, Snark, and cellardwellar - Regarding the dust, it is a poison effect, and immunity to poisons would protect from it, as would a delay poison spell. Bilo's necklace also protects against it, because it is an inhaled poison (dust of sneezing and choking) as one can easily see by its very name. Good job to Snark for coming up with this great tactic (I first noticed it several weeks ago when you first bought the dust, but as Jindl and Anna are both immune to poison, I didn't want to comment and destroy your nasty surprise for the others.) So in this case, Bilo would not have tried to use the dust, because it would not have affected either gladiator. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 07:17 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Good job to Snark for coming up with this great tactic (I first noticed it several weeks ago when you first bought the dust, but as Jindl and Anna are both immune to poison, I didn't want to comment and destroy your nasty surprise for the others.) -Jindl Whoa!! druids now have Complete inmunity!! I thought it still applied only on natural poisons like in 3.0! What a .. pleasant surprise..
Hatzinger 03-07-04, 07:41 PM	I guess you are right, Motherbast... @Artemis: I apologize for ignoring your tactics, no matter how unfitting, confused or bad they might have been, and for trying to save your characters life and winning the fight by using different tactics than you had thoughed of. And i promise that iīll never do it again. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ der Ton macht die Musik
Battousai2005 03-07-04, 07:48 PM	@Hatzinger: Geez, my mom would kill me for apologizing like that. (sigh) I really dont want to see arti's response... :sad: @Arstimis: Uh, dont go over the top here, okay. You've screwed up before as well.
Magagumo 03-07-04, 07:49 PM	I hear ay Druid, I found out about the new druid immunity myself this morning. Its one of those things you dont think to check right away. :)
Hatzinger 03-07-04, 08:02 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 @Hatzinger: Geez, my mom would kill me for apologizing like that. Thank you very much, Battousai. It took me years to cultivate these skills.:D
Battousai2005 03-07-04, 08:13 PM	Originally posted by Hatzinger Thank you very much, Battousai. It took me years to cultivate these skills.:D They were not wasted years, either. I'm very sure that you will love apologizing as such for many years to come.;)
Hatzinger 03-07-04, 08:17 PM	Yes, it can be quite satisfying.... Actually, when i gain my next Expert level, i plan to take the "add insult to injury" feat.
cellardweller 03-07-04, 08:32 PM	In regard to the Dust of Sneezing and Choking, I wrestled long and hard over this. My rational was that a monk would have been immune to the poison spell because it works by "Calling upon the venomous powers of natural predators" and therefore a monk would be immune to the aspects of the dust stemming from that spell, ie the con damage (the saving throws were left in from a previous interpretation and would not have applied). Because the stunning effects did not originate from the poison spell, they must be a magical property inherent in the dust that has nothing to do with poison and therefore would not be subject to monk immunity. It seems that my view is in the minority though, so I am happy to re-run the fight from that point when I get back from work tonight (~8pm gmt+8). And yes allowing Bilo to depoy the dust by attacking a square was incorrect, not that it matters now.
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 08:32 PM	In other news, I would like to mod. Yes, thank you. *bows to the public* *and nobody cares* :rant:
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 08:34 PM	Remember, magical poisons are still poisons. Which is why the Poison spell does not work on poison immune creatures. Ever tried to poison a golem with that dust? Edit: In fact, now that i have read the description, the Item seems non-poisonous. The only indication of it would be that you need the Poison spell to create it. Ill have to stand my argument down. I have no idea if this is a poison or not.
Magagumo 03-07-04, 08:45 PM	Based on its spell's origin, Druid, I can concede the necessity of terming it a poison. As for the golem, they have immunity due to SR, as well as being immune to any Fortitude Save that does not apply to an object. Ah contructs, without their magic immunity, they would be Disintegrate bait.
MotherBast 03-07-04, 08:50 PM	Come to think of it, I can't understand why we haven't seen a construct in the arena yet. Seems one of you pesky wizzos would have made one by now.
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 08:59 PM	I want one of those saw golems from complete warrior! Too bad its not core ;)
Magagumo 03-07-04, 09:02 PM	Well, MB, the problem is that one needs Craft Magic Arms & Armor. The clerics benefit from this feat, as they weild the stuff, but Clay Golems are incredibly risky, what with the permanant beserk... meaning that you could lose them at any time as an effective helper. Sure, the wizard ones are fun, with Flesh Golems helping at low levels, while Stone & Iron become monstrously fun at high levels. But what wizard wants to craft magic weaponry and armor? :) Spellsword isn't Core, so I would say the Eldritch Knight with near perfect caster levels (loses two) would benefit from the powerful weapon and nasty cohort. Hope someone has fun with that, cause Bruno's too busy perfecting his ability to identify spells ;) (Bloody useless feat ^_~) Edit: Tut Tut, Druid, the best ones are in Dragonomicon, with Frightful Presence, Petrifying Breath, and being a superior Iron Golem.
Jindl 03-07-04, 09:17 PM	FYI: SR doesn't help against magic items. For example, a necklace of fireballs is quite effective against a creature with high SR (its spell resistance). But the dust is definately a poison, so golems are immune. In response to the "no golems?" question, who wants a ultra expensive ally that can't fly? Why can't they fly ... because they have unbeatable SR and the fly spell is blocked by SR. Still, it wouldn't surprise me to see a cleric with a clay golem, especially since you can't heal their damage except with a "heal" spell. -Jindl Oh, and MotherBast - enough with the Jindl / Skymoon romance crap. Don't you know that Skymoon only loves his horse?
Magagumo 03-07-04, 09:20 PM	Hmm, items always ignore SR, Jindl? What about the circlet of minor blasting which casts searing light? I thought they ignored the SR if you wore them, so the half-golem can actually use buff items and such. I agree on the fly note, however, as the normal golem isn't smart enough to activate the boots of flying. But, of course, flight is easily beaten by Dispel Magic, unless your opponent is a druid ;) Clay golems are nice.. but far too unpredictable..
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 09:32 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Hmm, items always ignore SR, Jindl? What about the circlet of minor blasting which casts searing light? I thought they ignored the SR if you wore them, so the half-golem can actually use buff items and such. I agree on the fly note, however, as the normal golem isn't smart enough to activate the boots of flying. But, of course, flight is easily beaten by Dispel Magic, unless your opponent is a druid ;) Clay golems are nice.. but far too unpredictable.. First of all, I was thinking on the improved familiar golems, I love those. Hehe. Second. I do think that wonderous items need a caster check to bypass spell resistance. Where did you find this Jindl? Third. Do you mean that because of druid's wildshape? or druid's level 4 dispel magic? Anyways, they get Greater dispel magic at the same level as other primary casters.
Magagumo 03-07-04, 09:34 PM	Wildshape, really, but then the eagle/dire bat/hawk becomes Telekinesis bait :D
Tellish_of_Ket 03-07-04, 09:35 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis Ok, forget it was even color spray. Be it any spell, i dont want to get close. What kind of stupid character would run into a trap, when he has other means to attack safely? Edit: You saying my charcter has no chance of knowing that he could cast color spray is like saying He has no clue that my character is a mounted fighter. It must have been meta-gaming if he looked on my character sheet as was able to tell that i was a fighter Until you've had your eyes poked out by a familiar while holding onto a net, being magic missled repeatedly without drawing a weapon to defend youself...brother....you have no idea what real anguish is about. :headexplo Ooops...hey Mag...hi there buddy. :D Tellish
Jindl 03-07-04, 09:42 PM	My apologies. According to the DMG, pg 214: "Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects." I guess this means that they are spells or spell-like abilities, and so they are subject to SR, even though most magic items do not provoke AoO's like a spell or spell-like ability. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 09:43 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Wildshape, really, but then the eagle/dire bat/hawk becomes Telekinesis bait :D Thats why you use Elemental Wildshape Air elemental!!! By the way, ive allways wanted to know, can you grapple an air elemental? I can't find anything that suggests you can't, but it would be stupid... Specially in whirlwind form. Edit: But good luck grappling a Huge (animal Growth) Dire bat!
Jindl 03-07-04, 09:47 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo Wildshape, really, but then the eagle/dire bat/hawk becomes Telekinesis bait :D Go ahead and try to grapple Jindl in his animal growthed dire bat form ... You TK would have a check of +20, Jindl has a check of +25 (more if Bull's strength is running). Of course, you may have forgotten that druid's get freedom of movement as a 4th level spell... :D -Jindl
Druid Roxors 03-07-04, 09:51 PM	Ha! my post came earlier!!
Jindl 03-07-04, 09:55 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Ha! my post came earlier!! Nod. Of course, mine was much more specific... -Jindl
Magagumo 03-07-04, 10:00 PM	*Rolls Eyes* Responses could be given, but I feel it is time to stop determining whose caster is better ;)
Jindl 03-07-04, 10:08 PM	Indeed. Our rematch will come soon enough, little gnome... but first I have to deal with a destructive little halfling who has been avoiding me. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 03-07-04, 10:12 PM	Just wanted to point out, that the TK'd swords aren't coming from a hidden position and neither is the attack. The attack rolls from the swords are not made as though the opponent is flat-footed and neither should sneak attack dmg be added. gah. That is a very serious error going on too long. I don't like to say too much, and hoping usually common sense would prevail in situations like this and usually leave it up to others to point out the seriousness of the error but enough is enough. The loop-holing just continues. Anna is simply the focus of the TK. I know, i know, you're gonna give me the wordings i've read over a few times now and tell how WHY i can be done. And find descrepancy in the wordings, I'm just hoping someone else comes to their senses and understand that it is being wrongfully applied. -ToK
xeno_eleusis 03-07-04, 10:21 PM	Posted by Magagumo Kiri’endelas vs. Zippy & Roger (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69954&perpage=1&pagenumber=424) The cones blossom in the soil beneath “horse” and rider, and snake up in a soft-barked spiral of clinging saprolings (Rex: R- 15+7=22 vs. 18) (Conc for distracting spell: 4+12=16 vs. 18, fail). As Zippy concentrates on his task, he feels the roots take hold, and drag him suddenly downward. With a shout of fear and surprise, Zippy is dragged out of sight, leaving Roger alone amongst the shifting pine forest. (H: 11+18=29, cannot spot) (L: 1+10-19=-8 vs. 0)1.) Please explain what spell the pixie is casting here. 2.) What does "Conc for distracting spell" mean exactly? 3.) What is "H: ... cannot spot" and what is "L: ..-19"? 4.) I know that this guy did not put up much of a fight, but I am very confused on what is actually happening in this post.
Jindl 03-07-04, 10:22 PM	@Tellish - You may be right, as far as intent of the rules go, but you're also right that the rules say you can sneak attack with TK, even when your opponent can see the object. Still, if the Elder Mods wanted to state an interpretation of the rule which said something like "You can only sneak attack with TK if the thrown object is not seen," I would be okay with that. And I would get myself some invisible swords :devil: -Jindl PS: @barrel_master - Good move polymorphing into an Annis, that definately thwarted what I wanted to accomplish.
Magagumo 03-07-04, 10:22 PM	Tellish I've never commented on this, but if Octavian isn't able to see Anna, then he is considered flat-footed to her. Remember, the swords might eb hitting Anna's opponent, but she is still controlling them. Sure, you could stare at the swords, knowing that they will soon be flying at you, but you can't be sure exactly when, so you're considered flatfooted when the hidden rouge flings them at you. In combat, one watches the opponent to know when they'll strike. If you can't seen your opponent, then you won't know the exact timing, so you're going to be caught off-guard. However, I do think that using the swords from 120' away will not qualify for sneak attack. It's definetely a strange occurence, but consider it with this second metaphor: Bilo has gained the spell Project Image, and has now snuck up on Sucker McSoon-be-dead. Bilo is invisible, 30' away from Sucker, but his Image is currently also invisble (can cast illusion spells on self) some 45' feet away. Bilo directs his Image to cast Scorching ray, which orginates 45' from Sucker, while Bilo is presently 30' away. Now then, sneak atatck damage is not applied, because the atatck was not made from within 30'. I'm not absolutely positive that the concepts are the same, but it seems reasonable to state that the swords must be within 30' in order for Anna to deal sneak attack damage. Thusly, it is possible to avoid these deadly instruments, given some know-how. Of course, Anna can still stab you from long-range with them, but no sneak. I would liek to have this idea mulled over, because as much as I know Snark loves fun, he might need to be re-running this fight. @Xeno My apoliges if the narrative has interfered with the fight- 1. The spell was entangle, as per the pixie's tactics and on ehr spell list. 2. When one is casting a spell, and is struck by a non-damaging spell, one must make a Concentration check (DC Spells Save) or lose your own spell. It's listed under the Concentration skill. 3. H- Cannot spot, emans that due to the distance penalty, Roger could not even see Kiri, even on a 20, so I do not roll. The -19 to his Listen arises from the 190' that separate the pair at the time fo the spell's casting. 4. Roger lost Zippy to the entangle spell. He began to mvoe out of it while hiding behind his Tower Shield. kiri used her excellent fly speed to reach him, and negate his cover by moving behind him. He eventually was snared by the entangle spell, and never mentioned dropping Total Cover, so he was shot 9 more times and died. I inserted narrative because I felt inspired and Ethendril had given me an idea. It's always easier when the players throw you the RP idea. This clear everything up?
Jindl 03-07-04, 10:27 PM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis 1.) Please explain what spell the pixie is casting here. 2.) What does "Conc for distracting spell" mean exactly? 3.) What is "H: ... cannot spot" and what is "L: ..-19"? 4.) I know that this guy did not put up much of a fight, but I am very confused on what is actually happening in this post. 1. The pixie used a spell-like ability to cast entangle on the paladin as the paladin was in the middle of spending a full round action to use his spell-like ability to summon his special mount. 2. The Concentration check for trying to use a spell-like ability within the radius of a distracting spell (see the Concentration skill entry in the PHB.) According to the Official Errata, a paladin's spell-like ability to call a special mount is considered to be equivalent to a spell of 1/3rd his character level. 3. H: cannot spot means her hide is so good that it is impossible for him to spot her. L: refers to a listen check. Basically, what happened was the pixie disrupted his attempt to summon a mount, then since he was grounded with low mobility, the pixie took her time launching arrow after arrow until the paladin died. -Jindl
Magagumo 03-07-04, 10:30 PM	Hehe Thx for the follow-up, Jindl :P Btw, should I expect the Zorander v. Jagath fight results this evening?
Jindl 03-07-04, 10:33 PM	RE: TK and sneak attack - I don't mind if the Elder mods want to put a rule into effect. But, as for the fight, Snark did run it correctly. From the base rules, it doesn't matter where the swords come from (or the scorching ray in your example, Mag) what matters is whether the rogue is within 30 feet and whether the target can see the rogue. I view that as if the rogue needs to be close enough to see the vital spots, and that the target doesn't know the rogue is there and so doesn't conceal their vital spots as well. This is the same way that a rogue can sneak attack when flanking. It makes sense that you can't conceal your vital spots as well when you don't know where your opponent is, even if you do know that they will be flinging those weapons at you... I think Snark ran it correctly as the rules stand now, but I wouldn't oppose a reasonable Elder Mod decision to adjust the rule interpretation for future fights (ie close the loophole in the future). -Jindl EDIT: @Mag - unlikely. I'll probably post that collection of listen and spot checks tomorrow...
Tellish_of_Ket 03-07-04, 10:35 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Tellish - You may be right, as far as intent of the rules go, but you're also right that the rules say you can sneak attack with TK, even when your opponent can see the object. Still, if the Elder Mods wanted to state an interpretation of the rule which said something like "You can only sneak attack with TK if the thrown object is not seen," I would be okay with that. And I would get myself some invisible swords :devil: -Jindl PS: @barrel_master - Good move polymorphing into an Annis, that definately thwarted what I wanted to accomplish. The swords would have to be invisible. That would do it for sure 100% certain. And to avoid pin-pointing and having tactics to counter it when they get close, a silence wouldn't hurt either. :D Originally posted by Magagumo I've never commented on this, but if Octavian isn't able to see Anna, then he is considered flat-footed to her But he isn't flat-footed toward the attack. Being flat-footed means being unaware and unable to defend yourself. Oct is fully aware and very capable of defending himself. Originally posted by Magagumo Bilo directs his Image to cast Scorching ray, which orginates 45' from Sucker, while Bilo is presently 30' away. Now then, sneak atatck damage is not applied, because the atatck was not made from within 30'. I'm not absolutely positive that the concepts are the same, but it seems reasonable to state that the swords must be within 30' in order for Anna to deal sneak attack damage. VERY close...very close. The reason you'd be sneak-dmg (if within range) is the source of the attack isn't visible. The opponent is fooled by the 'image' and is not prepared to defend himself from the 'real' threat. This also lends to sniping with melf's. The source of the attack is never revealed until the attack, at which point it's too late...hence caught flat-footed. To say the swords can sneak attack (from any range) would be the same as giving a construct the ability to sneak dmg the opponent if the controlling rogue/wizard was invisible and giving him exact commands of when to attack and when to stop. It's the same thing (almost). Anna guids the swords with TK, she doesn't make the attack roll herself and the swords are clearly visible. It is a modified attack roll as described in the spell. The source of the attack/threat is always clear. Just my opinion. EDIT* @Jindl - I also would not favor a re-run on this. New situations come up and when they happen we address them. It's a learning process, not a lynching for the offender. I would say the fight stands as run, but close the hole for the future. -ToK
SnarkHunter 03-07-04, 11:57 PM	One thing I thought of just now-As per the TK spell, the weapons used were unharmed after the attack...but what about when they fell 150ft? I'm not sure if the protection of TK applies to that too, but if not each sword took 15d6 points of damage after every fall...
xeno_eleusis 03-08-04, 12:09 AM	@Jindl and @Magagumo thanks for explaining. I had some problems reading this because of the RP of it but, after the explination I understand. The only thing I would ask from Mods in the future is to alway include the spellname (or spell like ability) if not in a RP way, "His mount became Entagled" just use parenthesis "feels the roots take hold, and drag him suddenly downward (Entangle)" Also, I did not know about the Palidan mount and the consentration check. Thanks, that makes the first round make a lot more sense, (Where did he go?) Lastly, I really like the notation (H: ....) and (L: ...) I would suggest spelling it out though, (Spot vs Hide ...) and (Listen: ...) Thanks again for taking the time to explain that for me.
kattattack22 03-08-04, 01:36 AM	I have one really big question about Jindl's ghost Anna. How did she use her items when she sunk into the ground? As far as I know they are not incorporeal unless she had them on her when she died. All other items would be corporeal and would not be able to follow. Granted its not my fight. It doesn't directly concern me, yet. Still, it baffles me.
freemoody 03-08-04, 01:44 AM	Hello, I've been following the arena for a long time and after seeing the Dust of Sneezing and Choaking cheese I just wanted to stop visiting the arena all together. Stunned for 5d4 rnds even with a passed save! That's just broken. In the discription it says that "This fine dust appears to be dust of appearance." So wouldn't Bilo think that it is dust of appearance? I hope the gods(<-- I really like this for the new mods name) review how unfair using the dust is and do something about it. BTW, Rito and Jindl are my favorite characters.
barrel_master 03-08-04, 02:05 AM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter One thing I thought of just now-As per the TK spell, the weapons used were unharmed after the attack...but what about when they fell 150ft? I'm not sure if the protection of TK applies to that too, but if not each sword took 15d6 points of damage after every fall... Ha ha, darn, I could have won if they did take that dmg. As for the sneak attack thing, I didn't notice till tellish brought it up and I have to agree. For it to work out the swords would have had to have been invisible. However, I also agree that the fight should not be re-run. Bummer :) maybe it's time to bring out Paul again.
Arstimis 03-08-04, 02:08 AM	Originally posted by Hatzinger I guess you are right, Motherbast... @Artemis: Arstimis I apologize for ignoring your tactics................ And i promise that iīll never do it again. I accept your apology. You are after all a new mod, still learning the ropes. Im leaving out the inside part becomes im a forgiving guy, and dont want to drag this on any longer. In other news....Kiowen is getting level bumped again, after the 6th straight loss. Rito, here i come :D
barrel_master 03-08-04, 02:21 AM	Originally posted by kattattack22 I have one really big question about Jindl's ghost Anna. How did she use her items when she sunk into the ground? As far as I know they are not incorporeal unless she had them on her when she died. All other items would be corporeal and would not be able to follow. Granted its not my fight. It doesn't directly concern me, yet. Still, it baffles me. I think she was able to use the wands since she 'died' with them on her person...
kattattack22 03-08-04, 02:27 AM	I think she was able to use the wands since she 'died' with them on her person... A-ha, so they were. Jindl even marked them in blue. That dwarf didn't bother to strip the poor halfling of much before feeding Anna to that dragon did he?
xeno_eleusis 03-08-04, 03:41 AM	Bilo Darkleaf sold: 1 tangle foot bag: 25gp, Fox's cunning: 50gp, Scroll of Magic missile 9th level, Tiny heavy Crossbow:25 gp, Cat's Grace*:52.5gp, Filled Spell book: 5,000gpCan someone explain the rule for selling back stuff? 1) pg112 PHB says that sold equipment is 1/2 base price. Is there another rule that the CoCo follow when selling back stuff. 2) As a spell caster, can I just write spellbooks, fill them, and then sell them for a cool 5K each? 3) Is there a method for making a profit from crafted items?
Hatzinger 03-08-04, 04:16 AM	Magnamundo, actually you donīt use the "craft magic arms and armor" feat but the "craft construct" feat. Itīs in the Monster Manual.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-08-04, 05:44 AM	Originally posted by xeno_eleusis Can someone explain the rule for selling back stuff? 1) pg112 PHB says that sold equipment is 1/2 base price. Is there another rule that the CoCo follow when selling back stuff. 2) As a spell caster, can I just write spellbooks, fill them, and then sell them for a cool 5K each? 3) Is there a method for making a profit from crafted items? Selling back items is done at half price. Bilo the Billionaire, needs to make some serious modifications to his pc's wealth. He's not alone though. Almost all of them need to do this. I'm glad i'm not the only one who's noticed this trend. -ToK
Caterane 03-08-04, 06:45 AM	@Sshuit: Well, there are quite some mistakes in it. [list=1] Round 1: Ilene spurs her mount forward which results in a -4 penalty from moving which she didn`t suffer. Round 1: You are NOT flatfooted at the beginning of the combat. None of the three arrows from round 1 should`ve hit. Round 3: You cannot destroy a shield with a ranged weapon. We discussed this last week. Round 3: A towershield has 40 hp. Ilene`s arrows do half damage only (piercing) so I have no idea how she destroyed my shield in 1 round. In the Donkey fight she needed about 12 arrows to destroy his one. Round 3: You didnīt substract -4 for moving, again. Round 4: Ilene destroyed my heavy shield. Same as above. Round 5: Your remark is wrong. Running would result in -8 penalty. Round 6: To pinpoint a creature down to 5' you have to beat the listen check by 20, not 15. Round 7: Why did I cast silence on my pouch? I had 2 other Blindness/Deafness spells ready? Excerpt from my tactic: Excerpt from Harvester's tactic: As soon as she is blinded, cast Deafness on her until she`s blind & deaf, or I am out of blindness/deafness spells Round 7: What was that??? The Harvester tries to cast divine favor, but can't because he silenced himself DOH! Excerpt from Harvester's tactic: If she`s blinded only, cast silence on sth in my possession. She cannot see and hear me. Same as above: divine favor and arrows (DF before silence, of course). [/list=1] I won so it didn`t affect the outcome but it easily could have with so many errors in it. Sshuit, I appreciate your efforts in moderating but I put no less effort in my tactics so please familiarize yourself with them a bit better next time. Same with some of the rules. This is escpecially important since the Harvester is still unbeaten and it would be really annoying if he loses to several mistakes. Thanks for running the fight though. Cat
MotherBast 03-08-04, 07:09 AM	@CAT: Actually, on the first round of combat you are flat-footed. You are always flat-footed if you haven't acted yet. If she wins Init, she can make her first attack aginst you while your still FF.
Caterane 03-08-04, 07:12 AM	I thought we decided that it is not that way because you are standing in an arena dome with thousands of people and you`re surely not surprised that a fight occurs. Can somebody give me the current ruling on this?
Tellish_of_Ket 03-08-04, 07:22 AM	MB is correct. AFAIK it's always been like this. Both opponents are flat-footed at the beginning of the match. It has nothing to do with surprise, it's your reaction timing. -ToK
Caterane 03-08-04, 07:24 AM	Ok, I thought I read about a house rule. Anyway, with the -4 from riding none of the arrows wouldve hit.
cellardweller 03-08-04, 07:46 AM	Originally posted by cellardweller In regard to the Dust of Sneezing and Choking, I wrestled long and hard over this. My rational was that a monk would have been immune to the poison spell because it works by "Calling upon the venomous powers of natural predators" and therefore a monk would be immune to the aspects of the dust stemming from that spell, ie the con damage (the saving throws were left in from a previous interpretation and would not have applied). Because the stunning effects did not originate from the poison spell, they must be a magical property inherent in the dust that has nothing to do with poison and therefore would not be subject to monk immunity. It seems that my view is in the minority though, so I am happy to re-run the fight from that point when I get back from work tonight (~8pm gmt+8). And yes allowing Bilo to depoy the dust by attacking a square was incorrect, not that it matters now. re-run completed.
Rosella 03-08-04, 07:51 AM	drats, atleast it was closer this time. I admit I was favored a "little" but all my tactics were done in all honesty. I though Cat also allowed the ranged attacks on shields. I presume that I can switch all anti tower shield tech back for money and spend it somewhere else? It might be appreciated if there's a link to follow for the towershield, since I haven't read the new rulings yet. Ilene is coming closer for the kill, harvey needs to watch his toes for the next fight! :D EDIT: -4 riding only goes for double move, if Ilene's not moving a double move, she gets no penalty. EDIT 2: sshuit was faster :mad:
sshuit 03-08-04, 07:51 AM	-4 is for double move as I posted on the other boards. no penalty for single move. Originally posted by Caterane Ok, I thought I read about a house rule. Anyway, with the -4 from riding none of the arrows wouldve hit.
Jindl 03-08-04, 08:30 AM	Originally posted by kattattack22 A-ha, so they were. Jindl even marked them in blue. That dwarf didn't bother to strip the poor halfling of much before feeding Anna to that dragon did he? Actually, they don't have to be on her person when she died. From the MM, pg 118, Ghostly Equipment: "When a ghost forms, all its equipment and carried items usually become ethereal along with it. In addition, the ghost retains 2d4 items that it particularly valued in life (provided they are not in another creature's possession)." So you see, some of the items may have been in her locker. Also, some of Anna's stuff was nonmagical when she died, and has since been enchanted to become magical. Her boots of speed, for example, were normal boots when she died. According to the DMG, there are no special requirements for the item which you wish to enchant, so I had her boots enchanted to be boots of speed. One last thing: Ghostly equipment is ethereal, though the ghost can use it while manifested. So, if I have a way to get more ethereal equipment, then Anna could get more stuff that she doesn't already have. I am actually saving up for an Obsidian Steed, to use its plane shift ability to go shopping... -Jindl
SnarkHunter 03-08-04, 08:43 AM	Cellar, on the rerun I noticed two things in the second to last round. 1, that you didn't seem to add the +5 dmg to the role of the magic missile. 2, that Bilo had 2 additional Empowered magic missiles prepared. If both these are correct then that would have been an additional 13pts of damage and enough to drop Brackin. That is all. Of course in this situation where I'm unable to keep distance (I thought I had said that the MM's were a long distance tactic) then using something like an empowered scorching ray with sneak attack would have been preferable, its my fault for not explicating that in my tactics.
cellardweller 03-08-04, 09:21 AM	Originally posted by SnarkHunter Cellar, on the rerun I noticed two things in the second to last round. 1, that you didn't seem to add the +5 dmg to the role of the magic missile. Yep Originally posted by SnarkHunter 2, that Bilo had 2 additional Empowered magic missiles prepared. If both these are correct then that would have been an additional 13pts of damage and enough to drop Brackin. Fired on rounds 4&5. [Edit:] oh I see, you had them prepared in 4th level slots. Sorry I overlooked them. Changing now. Brakin can take comfort in the knowledge that he was only 3hp away from finally scoring a victory over that wiley halfling.
SnarkHunter 03-08-04, 09:56 AM	And next level he gets SR. Oh god. Thanks for being very considerate.
MotherBast 03-08-04, 04:29 PM	Drat.... Closer and closer.... One day Bilo.... one day my vengence will be had....
Druid Roxors 03-08-04, 07:20 PM	Thanks Bishop for running the fight, There seems to be no rules problems at all. Just one little thing. Why did my character run towards him instead of using the Call lightning Scroll as explicitly directed on my tactics? With 5 hp, why in the world (and what was he going to do) by going out of the mist? He still had another Faerie Fire scroll which would have easily beaten him. Remember that you can use those spells just as you can shoot a fireball through the mist, if you know the last known location you can "guess" he is still there. Also, a move action out and into the mist can reveal if he switched positions. Other than that. Thanks for Re-re-Re- Running the fight Bishop. Ps. Im really sorry for making you work all this time, I know you are not Dedicated to this. But in all games, there must be competition, and I must try to remain competitive. Edit: - Summon Nature's ally is a Full round action - Moving 20ft towards the enemy means that Corinthus still has partial concealment. As per PHB, If enemy is within a square with concealment effect. 20% miss chance
kattattack22 03-08-04, 07:37 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Actually, they don't have to be on her person when she died. From the MM, pg 118, Ghostly Equipment: "When a ghost forms, all its equipment and carried items usually become ethereal along with it. In addition, the ghost retains 2d4 items that it particularly valued in life (provided they are not in another creature's possession)." So you see, some of the items may have been in her locker. Also, some of Anna's stuff was nonmagical when she died, and has since been enchanted to become magical. Her boots of speed, for example, were normal boots when she died. According to the DMG, there are no special requirements for the item which you wish to enchant, so I had her boots enchanted to be boots of speed. One last thing: Ghostly equipment is ethereal, though the ghost can use it while manifested. So, if I have a way to get more ethereal equipment, then Anna could get more stuff that she doesn't already have. I am actually saving up for an Obsidian Steed, to use its plane shift ability to go shopping... -Jindl Wow, that is really cool. Thank you for enlightening me. Anna is a quite puzzling, but very interesting character.
Caterane 03-08-04, 07:43 PM	I hope Moderators apply the sneak attack damage only once and not for every sword that hits. It`s like with Manyshot, Shuriken, etc. Sneak attack applies only once.
Magagumo 03-08-04, 08:17 PM	@Hatzinger Oh, I'm aware of the feat :) I was just commenting that the pre-req- Magic Arms & Armor Craft, is rather non-useful for most wizards. Ok,so if Anna continues to use TK from the air, those swords are going to ge brutalized.. (do they take half damage from falling? I would presume so.. so 15d6 equates to roughly 52 damage, converted to 26 when halved, -10 hardness= 16 damage to a two-bladed weapon (10 hp x4 for Huge)= 40, so those things could take that beating around 2 times on average it seems.
Jindl 03-08-04, 10:01 PM	Originally posted by Caterane I hope Moderators apply the sneak attack damage only once and not for every sword that hits. It`s like with Manyshot, Shuriken, etc. Sneak attack applies only once. No its not. Manyshot uses a single attack roll, which is why the sneak attack damage is only applied once. In 3.5 shuriken work just like any other type of thrown weapon, and you get sneak attack damage to each shuriken. Each sword carries its own sneak attack damage, as each is a seperately thrown weapon. Of course, if you can point to a rule that contradicts this, I'll be happy to hear it. :D -Jindl EDIT: @Mag - The swords would likely break after falling the third time, if they were falling from 150' each time. As Anna progresses, she will eventually get better swords (Gargantuan Mithral Bastard Swords - 4d8 base damage and weigh the same as huge bastard swords, but with more hardness and hps.) Consider it on my shopping list.
kattattack22 03-09-04, 12:58 AM	Originally posted by Jindl EDIT: @Mag - The swords would likely break after falling the third time, if they were falling from 150' each time. As Anna progresses, she will eventually get better swords (Gargantuan Mithral Bastard Swords - 4d8 base damage and weigh the same as huge bastard swords, but with more hardness and hps.) Consider it on my shopping list. I just realized, Anna is scary even if she wasn't a ghost.
SnarkHunter 03-09-04, 01:04 AM	Hopefully the next sage article on D&D page will explain how sneak attack and spells work. With spells that generate multiple rays for instance we've always done it that only the first one gets the sneak attack. But you could cast a ray spell and a quickened ray to get two sets of sneak attack. Edit: Hey! Looky here! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a) Edit 2: Telekenesis isn't covered explicitly in the article, so I suppose its up to the arena to decide. Is the Violent Thrust use of the telekenesis spell a volly? Or something else? I think it is a volly and so one would only get the extra sneak damage on the 1st throw.
Bishop the Bardican 03-09-04, 10:04 AM	@Druid_Roxors I saw that you had another scroll but I had already used so many scrolls that I did not want to use one that was not clearly listed in the tactics. Also, you did not have line of sight on Enilias without leaving the obscuring mist. So you would have drawn the scroll, use a move action to leave the mists, cast it, and move back. Two rounds of actions. As for the call lightning scroll, I was supposed to use it if PErsuctorus and the summoned wolf had failed. Persuctorus was right next to Enilias, getting an AoO every time Enilias fired his bow. He was uninjured. This part of your tactics had not failed (Perductorus was alive and so was the summoned wolf) I would have used the scroll of call lightning if your tactics had said that it should be used at the same time as the wolves' attatcks. Sorry, it took me so many tries to figure out your character. Better luck this week. Bishop
Caterane 03-09-04, 11:39 AM	Telekenesis isn't covered explicitly in the article, so I suppose its up to the arena to decide. Is the Violent Thrust use of the telekenesis spell a volly? Or something else? I think it is a volly and so one would only get the extra sneak damage on the 1st throw. As I already said: the sneak attack damage is for the first sword only, else Scorching ray would get 2 or 3 sneaks too. I read the article some time ago but everything seemed already clear to me. Jindl, I know you want to see the SA damage on every sword but the TK spell is already a bit broken when I read about Gargantuan Mithril Bastardswords. Adding +Xd6 to every single sword isn`t going to work. The article just confirms this. Another thing I read about was that you want to buy a planeshift item to "go shopping". Could you please specifify what you`re planning to do?
Ethendril 03-09-04, 11:50 AM	I may just not understand how Anna is using her swords, but doesn't there seem to be a difference between the damage a bastard sword would do in the hands of a skilled fighter, and the damage the sword would do by flying through the air and slamming into you? It just doesn't seem to me that the sword would do as much damage by flying into you (especially a big bundle of swords). Of course, this is probably another one of those vain attempts to apply "logic."
sshuit 03-09-04, 11:52 AM	@eth I agree 100%. Since the bastard swords are slashing weapons and being used as piercing, I think the damage would be more along the lines of an improvised huge missle. but that would involve common sense :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Caterane 03-09-04, 12:07 PM	Sadly, Jindl's not the one who`s bending the rules in this matter but WotC wrote it clearly in the spell description that weapons deal standard damage. Apparently they hadnt ghost`s with gargantuan weapon piles in mind. What Idoesn`t work is that the swords are kept and hurled in a bundle. They have to be loose.
sshuit 03-09-04, 12:13 PM	@Cat They would deal normal damage for a thrown bastard sword I imagine. A bastard sword only has a range increment of 10', beyond that distance I would treat it as an improvised weapon. And a thrown bastard sword doesn't necessarily deal its normal damage. A different question is whether a bundle of 10 items is 1 item. as you raised. sshuit
Jindl 03-09-04, 12:33 PM	Some comments on the TK : Yep, it seems pretty clear in the article that the sneak attack should only apply once. I assume this means it applies to the first sword that hits. I'm glad WoTC is starting to clear up some of this stuff. On another note, according to the article sneak attack damage can clearly be added to ability draining effects, so Anna's touch now adds sneak attack damage when appropriate. As for the base damage, Cat is correct. The spell explicitly states that the swords deal normal damage. As for the bundle - it is a bundle of scabbards. The multi scabbard counts as one item. But Anna is hurling the individual swords, which are not attached to each other. I could just as easily list the swords as lying in a pile in a basket. It would have the same effect. The visual image of drawing 12 swords from their scabbards and hurling them was just a little cooler. As for the going shopping - A ghost exists on the ethereal plane. When it manifests it causes all of its equipment to become incorporeal on the prime material plane. So if a ghost has a method of gaining ethereal equipment, it could use that stuff while manifested. So, I plan for Anna to get an Obsidian Steed. Then she could buy whatever she wants, put it on the steed who would then plane shift to the ethereal plane, and deliver the now ethereal equipment to her. Of course, spending 28,000 gp on a delivery service to be able to buy stuff is yet another drawback of being a ghost... -Jindl
Magagumo 03-09-04, 01:33 PM	Hey Jindl, thanks for posting Jagath v. Zorander. Forgot about disarm, nice trick :) Only regrets is not tumbling, but hey, 2 arrows for 40 points of damage is exactly how Zorander should work :). Good to see the tradition of Zorandering (even if the head isn't completely removed) is still alive and kicking :). Edit: I got your PM, no giant this week, I'd prefer only running one fight, so just Zoarnder and just one fight for the credit :).
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 02:27 PM	Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican @Druid_Roxors I saw that you had another scroll but I had already used so many scrolls that I did not want to use one that was not clearly listed in the tactics. Also, you did not have line of sight on Enilias without leaving the obscuring mist. So you would have drawn the scroll, use a move action to leave the mists, cast it, and move back. Two rounds of actions. As for the call lightning scroll, I was supposed to use it if PErsuctorus and the summoned wolf had failed. Persuctorus was right next to Enilias, getting an AoO every time Enilias fired his bow. He was uninjured. This part of your tactics had not failed (Perductorus was alive and so was the summoned wolf) I would have used the scroll of call lightning if your tactics had said that it should be used at the same time as the wolves' attatcks. Sorry, it took me so many tries to figure out your character. Better luck this week. Bishop The only thing that puzzles me is: why did I leave the mists? What was I trying to acomplish? Shoot with my sling dealing 1 damage per round? I should have waited for the wolves to Fail or succeed and then use the scroll. I could have known if i failed or not because listening for a battle is pretty simple, besides, my wolf would come back to me after the enemy is dead.
Jindl 03-09-04, 02:37 PM	@Druid - Perhaps you could include these sorts of contingent plans in your tactics. We stress that the FM's try not to think for the gladiators, so to be safe it is best if your tactics include all likely permutations. That way, the FM knows that you wish to wait in the mist until your allies are gone. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 02:54 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Druid - Perhaps you could include these sorts of contingent plans in your tactics. We stress that the FM's try not to think for the gladiators, so to be safe it is best if your tactics include all likely permutations. That way, the FM knows that you wish to wait in the mist until your allies are gone. -Jindl Well, but the question remains, What was the objective of leaving the mists? If i have no tactics, then dont do anything, my average damage is "1" and my maximum is 2 with a critical hit. There is no point on leaving the mists.
Bishop the Bardican 03-09-04, 03:07 PM	@Druid_Roxors The purpose of leaving the mists was that you could no longer see your enemy once faerie fire had worn off. Your character would have to leave the obscuring mist to have line of sight to attack with produce flame or cast faerie fire or do much of anything. I had used a lot of your scrolls and I had no indication in tactics that I should use the second scroll of faerie fire.
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 03:13 PM	Originally posted by Bishop the Bardican @Druid_Roxors The purpose of leaving the mists was that you could no longer see your enemy once faerie fire had worn off. Your character would have to leave the obscuring mist to have line of sight to attack with produce flame or cast faerie fire or do much of anything. I had used a lot of your scrolls and I had no indication in tactics that I should use the second scroll of faerie fire. In that case, why didn't i remain Partialy under the mists (with partial concealment) allowing me to shoot whatever it is i was going to do. Anyways; thanks for re-running the fight. Ill have to be horribly explicit from now on.
Bishop the Bardican 03-09-04, 03:27 PM	@Druid_Roxors You can not stay partially in the mists. You are either in them or out of them. You could have held the last flame from produce flame and cast summon monster I. Then, you could have sent the wolves to attack and wait to listen to the battle, but this course of action would have led to produce flame expiring before it had been used fully, wasting part of what had been your most effective spell. Your character would have to leave at some point or the spell would have expired. All of the above is moot, because your tactics stated that you wanted to attack with produce flame before trying the wolf tactic. In the round that you left the mists, your character had to leave in order to use produce flame. It took Corinthus longer than you had thought it would for Corinthus to reach medium range due to your reaction tactics. You did a lot of damage to your opponent and negated his superior speed, but you had a lot of ground to cover under fire.
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 03:57 PM	Of course you can stay partially in the mists, you could review the spell in the PHB. 10ft of mists provide full concealment, while 5 ft of mist provode concealment. Perfect for spotting for spells.
Bishop the Bardican 03-09-04, 04:06 PM	The change in concealment between 5' and 10' could be stretched to mean that you can see out the edge, but the third sentence of the description seems to refute your argument, "The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet." Corinthus could see someone in a square adjoining the obscuring mist, but no further.
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 04:17 PM	Hmm, i guess thats right. Anyways, thanks for the re-runs.
MotherBast 03-09-04, 04:28 PM	Actually, thats not right... if you stand on the very edge of the mist, then you can use the edge of your square to determin the ammount of cocealment between you and your opponit by drawing a line to the center of his square. If you use the edge bordering the edge of the mist, then no mist is between you and your opponit, and you can see him fine, with no concealment. He, on the other hand, can also use any border he choses, but must mesure to the center of your square. His line will enter the first 5' of mist, giving you 20' concealment. If your on the second square in the mist, then when you use the border closest to the edge of the mist, 5' of mist will be between you and your opponit. This gives him 20% concealment, but you can see him. The sentence about "no visability" beyond 5' mean you can not see through more than 5' of mist. If it is only 5', you just give 20% concealment. Plus, your opponits line to you will then move through two squares of mist, so you have total concealment vs. him, where he has only 20% vs. you. This is the way the arena has always run OM, and is the correct interpratation.
Bishop the Bardican 03-09-04, 05:10 PM	Damn, I messed up again. Do what you must. I have revised it twice and refuse to revise or think about that fight again. I am done. Take my credit or whatever must be done. I have done a lot of work to fix that fight, but it is not right and I am not going to rerun from there. I have a loss from a fight with no posted tactics, no rerun, no dialogue between FM and myself. There has to be a limit to the amount of reworking on a fight.
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 05:50 PM	Originally posted by MotherBast Actually, thats not right... if you stand on the very edge of the mist, then you can use the edge of your square to determin the ammount of cocealment between you and your opponit by drawing a line to the center of his square. If you use the edge bordering the edge of the mist, then no mist is between you and your opponit, and you can see him fine, with no concealment. He, on the other hand, can also use any border he choses, but must mesure to the center of your square. His line will enter the first 5' of mist, giving you 20' concealment. If your on the second square in the mist, then when you use the border closest to the edge of the mist, 5' of mist will be between you and your opponit. This gives him 20% concealment, but you can see him. The sentence about "no visability" beyond 5' mean you can not see through more than 5' of mist. If it is only 5', you just give 20% concealment. Plus, your opponits line to you will then move through two squares of mist, so you have total concealment vs. him, where he has only 20% vs. you. This is the way the arena has always run OM, and is the correct interpratation. Hmm, that makes sense, but are you sure it has to be from anywhere on your square to the center of his square?
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 06:02 PM	Anyways, that would mean that I could monitor the progress of my wolves and still be invulnerable. Afterwards I could Call lightning and finish him up. That would have changed the outcome of the battle, instead of charging mindlessly, and saved me the loss of a very expensive scroll of windward that was lost to no avail.
MotherBast 03-09-04, 06:57 PM	@Bishop: It is not required that a MOD rerun any part of any fight if the MOD so chooses. It is always the Mods discression wether or not to rerun fights, and the no rerun policey is in place to protect that. However, there is an option players who feel they have been errored aginst may take should a MOD, or FM I guess I should say now, choose not to rerun the fight. The player can notify the Elder Mods he belives his fight was run in error. The mods will review it, and hear cases from both sides. If the Mods rule that the error caused the player to loose the fight, and he most likely would have won the fight if the error had not been made, then the player recives an error point (I think they are in credit form now) and the Mod recives a "-" credit. Thats how I think it is working now anyway. The system has only been used once, and much has changed since then. Still, even if the fight is found to be in error, it will not be changed. Only the FM who ran the fight my make any changes to it. If Bishop chooses not to make any furter changes, that is his right.
Battousai2005 03-09-04, 09:41 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Anyways, that would mean that I could monitor the progress of my wolves and still be invulnerable. Afterwards I could Call lightning and finish him up. That would have changed the outcome of the battle, instead of charging mindlessly, and saved me the loss of a very expensive scroll of windward that was lost to no avail. dude, i say this as someone who cares. Give up. Please? You've taken up about a page worth of postings. You're tactics specified what action you took. Don't worry about it. Low lev druids get rocked by archers. trust me on that one. Ask Hatzinger for gory details.:D
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 09:52 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 dude, i say this as someone who cares. Give up. Please? You've taken up about a page worth of postings. You're tactics specified what action you took. Don't worry about it. Low lev druids get rocked by archers. trust me on that one. Ask Hatzinger for gory details.:D How was I supposed to be rocked by the archer? I had 27 AC (yes, thats 27) He had 4 Att. (four). + I was invulnerable within the mists And lost 375gp worth of a level 3 scroll. All stats pointed at my victory. Nothin is "rocked" by anything else unless you factor in high-level and Casters. Check the fight if you don't believe me!
Battousai2005 03-09-04, 10:01 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors How was I supposed to be rocked by the archer? I had 27 AC (yes, thats 27) He had 4 Att. (four). + I was invulnerable within the mists And lost 375gp worth of a level 3 scroll. All stats pointed at my victory. Nothin is "rocked" by anything else unless you factor in high-level and Casters. Check the fight if you don't believe me! yah, but you miss the factor of luck. Luck changes everything. Well, that and the fact that a lot of what you wanted to happen simply didn't. It's one fight.
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 10:05 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 yah, but you miss the factor of luck. Luck changes everything. Well, that and the fact that a lot of what you wanted to happen simply didn't. It's one fight. GAHH!! and his luck is just disturbing! He rolled at least a 6 in ALL damage dice, and 19's and 20's right when he needed them. Damn Lady luck, Yeah! damn her to hell!!! Ok, im fine now
Arstimis 03-09-04, 10:08 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors GAHH!! and his luck is just disturbing! He rolled at least a 6 in ALL damage dice, and 19's and 20's right when he needed them. Damn Lady luck, Yeah! damn her to hell!!! Ok, im fine now Yes....i DM him in a RL campaign....and that about how his luck is a crit every 3rd roll, and near max damage most of the time. He must be married to Lady Luck
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 10:14 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis Yes....i DM him in a RL campaign....and that about how his luck is a crit every 3rd roll, and near max damage most of the time. He must be married to Lady Luck Thats called Weighted Dice!! ;) Edit: Just noticed his last blow wouldn't have landed because I still had cover from my wolf. (as shown on my grid). And his killing blow would have been deflected because I had +4 prone AC.
Arstimis 03-09-04, 10:28 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors Thats called Weighted Dice!! ;) Edit: Just noticed his killing blow wouldn't have landed because I still had cover from my wolf. (as shown on my grid). He uses my dice :-/ I dont think your wolf can give you cover if it is attacking
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 10:40 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis He uses my dice :-/ I dont think your wolf can give you cover if it is attacking In that case tell him he is a lucky bastard and counterweight your dice! JK! 3.5 SRD To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target's square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).
Battousai2005 03-09-04, 10:46 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis He uses my dice :-/ I dont think your wolf can give you cover if it is attacking A wolf doesn't give you cover as it is considered "soft" cover. Now if you were hiding behind a dire wolf... As to the amazing luck that Kaigan has in Arti's campaign, I am in that as well. Lemme just say this: luck wins only so many battles. I attribute my wins and losses as a factor of skill. Which i assure you, Kaigan has a little. (only a little, mind:D ) I happen to win through brilliant tactics. And running away when the time calls for it;) @Kaigan(if he actually is gonna respond to this): SOME of us, whose names will not be mentioned (*cough* me *cough*) have to actually work for victories, not steal others ideas and scrap them when they dont work (jerks his thumb at Kaigan). @Druid: Well, that's one loss. Don't worry about it too much. Druids are casters and really aren't ment to go toe to toe with fighters. Still, some of those ideas were brilliant. And i agree. Lady Luck can burn as far as im concerned(unless she moniters these posts:angel: )
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 10:51 PM	Thanks for the compliement, but just to clarify. Soft and hard cover is only important on Melee. Ranged cover can be granted by any creature that occupies a 5ft or larger space. (Check my last quote, thats all thats related to ranged cover) Edit: And I can see many Druids and other casters using my tactics in the future... DON'T!! They are copyrighted!! Nah, just remember who brought them up :)
Tellish_of_Ket 03-09-04, 11:44 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors In that case, why didn't i remain Partialy under the mists (with partial concealment) allowing me to shoot whatever it is i was going to do. Anyways; thanks for re-running the fight. Ill have to be horribly explicit from now on. Edit: And I can see many Druids and other casters using my tactics in the future... DON'T!! They are copyrighted!! Nah, just remember who brought them up Sorry Druid_Rox, you aren't the first to use mist-sniping. Kelek invented and perfected it. But, like you, my first attempt failed because the mod, like yours, may not have fully understood what you were trying to accomplish. I had to be as careful as possible to paint a very clear picture of what i wanted to do. If you want some examples of mist-sniping read some of Kelek old fights. He definately perfected. So about your copy-rights, uhh, you owe me $20.00 for your attempt to steal my tactics. Read some of his old fights and tactics (those i won of course) to see how you could word it as such to shoot from the mist. If you are in the second square of the miss and don't mind taking a 20% miss-chance against your opponent, you still maintain 100% concealment and you are effectively invisible. This is a poor-man's improved invis and works really well. I've killed a few victims like this. Ppl come looking for me in the mist and i sneak away out of it, (bat has blindsense) and i can ambush him (assassinate) when he comes out. hehe. Worked ok. -ToK
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 11:48 PM	Originally posted by Tellish_of_Ket Sorry Druid_Rox, you aren't the first to use mist-sniping. Kelek invented and perfected it. But, like you, my first attempt failed because the mod, like yours, may not have fully understood what you were trying to accomplish. I had to be as careful as possible to paint a very clear picture of what i wanted to do. If you want some examples of mist-sniping read some of Kelek old fights. He definately perfected. So about your copy-rights, uhh, you owe me $20.00 for your attempt to steal my tactics. Read some of his old fights and tactics (those i won of course) to see how you could word it as such to shoot from the mist. If you are in the second square of the miss and don't mind taking a 20% miss-chance against your opponent, you still maintain 100% concealment and you are effectively invisible. This is a poor-man's improved invis and works really well. I've killed a few victims like this. Ppl come looking for me in the mist and i sneak away out of it, (bat has blindsense) and i can ambush him (assassinate) when he comes out. hehe. Worked ok. -ToK Ooo. Thanks for the reference, ill look it up. Edit: But I invented Entangle+FF+Mist!!
Kaigan 03-09-04, 11:49 PM	@Bat: Well of course good luck only goes for a while. I must say that if you were in my position what would you have done? Fighting a druid is challenging and there is only so much that you can do with an archer. Corinthus happens to be a very good build and luck was against him, so i attribute that win to luck. He is right about the cover of his wolf though. Anyways, you only have long and good tactics because you have a complex and diverse character. An archer will only shoot, but now i will have fun.
Druid Roxors 03-09-04, 11:52 PM	Originally posted by Kaigan @Bat: Well of course good luck only goes for a while. I must say that if you were in my position what would you have done? Fighting a druid is challenging and there is only so much that you can do with an archer. Corinthus happens to be a very good build and luck was against him, so i attribute that win to luck. He is right about the cover of his wolf though. Anyways, you only have long and good tactics because you have a complex and diverse character. An archer will only shoot, but now i will have fun. And your luck will run out! Once we meet again!! MUAAHAHAHHAHAHA!! (RP)
Alterlat 03-10-04, 06:07 AM	Originally posted by Magagumo Forgot about disarm, nice trick :) Only regrets is not tumbling, but hey, 2 arrows for 40 points of damage is exactly how Zorander should work :). Good to see the tradition of Zorandering (even if the head isn't completely removed) is still alive and kicking :). That first shot really brought on the deja vu. After seeing that I was worried Jagath wouldn't have enough HP left to pull the plan off. Nice to have melee beat ranged for once, even if melee needed alot of magical enhancement.
Bishop the Bardican 03-10-04, 09:43 AM	EDIT: New week, new pairings, move on. @Druid_Roxors I guess I never implemented your tactics correctly. I must have read them twenty times in three versions of a fight. I tried. Sorry.
WizO_Shadow 03-17-04, 02:46 PM	::grabs the chains and swirls the lock:: As requested, it's locked. Discussions can continue in the tavern. Off... off to the tavern you go! Renee Shadow:angel: