Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jindl 04-30-04, 07:13 PM	Please post any comments or concerns regarding fights of the week of 4/28/04 below. And remember to BE NICE !! -Jindl
Magagumo 05-01-04, 09:31 PM	@Beldin Looks like a ncie run fight, but two things I noticed: One, good job reviewing your player's character, but ACP doesn't apply to Spot and Listen ;). Only to HIde, MS, Escape Artist, Climb, Jump, and Tumble, to name the ones most important to the arena. Two, ties between Spot and Hde equal success for the spotter. Only on opposed ability or attack rolls (like Sunder or DIsarm and such) does the modifier matter.
Caterane 05-02-04, 03:31 AM	@Battousai: The fight you posted is really strange. First of all, the clear arrangement is horrible but that`s not the worst thing. What happened in round 1? How can someone charge to the other position through all these columns. And what`s the ouch with the spellcraft check? If you meant "Caster level check" then he made it which would`ve resulted in mirror images. Most importantly, you didn`t follow the tactics of either but ran it as you wished to do. No one wrote something like the way it had been run. I know you haven`t much time at the moment but that`s no excuse to run a fight absendmindly. Don`t pitlord if you have no time, or give the fight away if you forgot about your RL works. There are plenty of other pitlords who would like to run a fight, and would do so smoothly and with at least a bit of enthusiasm. Perhaps it is time to set some guidelines for pitlording... @Jindl: Remove this "Be nice!" :D
Beldin 05-02-04, 05:37 AM	Kedi vs Tanja: :blush: edited the spot and listen. shall i rerun the fight from the spot/hide tie? the correction would favour the winner anyway. @Battousai: you must really have been angry at me for misspelling your name. i dont really know what happened, even if i failed the CASTER LEVEL check, i schould have moved to cover, where i would have had ac 18 and his charge wouldn't have hit. and i wrote to take a 5 feet step and cast defensly preventing a attack of oportunity, possibly stunning him and his horse... please read tactics more carefully next time -Beldin
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 12:30 PM	Originally posted by Caterane @Battousai: The fight you posted is really strange. First of all, the clear arrangement is horrible but that`s not the worst thing. What happened in round 1? How can someone charge to the other position through all these columns. And what`s the ouch with the spellcraft check? If you meant "Caster level check" then he made it which would`ve resulted in mirror images. Most importantly, you didn`t follow the tactics of either but ran it as you wished to do. No one wrote something like the way it had been run. I know you haven`t much time at the moment but that`s no excuse to run a fight absendmindly. Don`t pitlord if you have no time, or give the fight away if you forgot about your RL works. There are plenty of other pitlords who would like to run a fight, and would do so smoothly and with at least a bit of enthusiasm. Perhaps it is time to set some guidelines for pitlording... @Jindl: Remove this "Be nice!" :D Start: Ok, sorry about the fight. It was a bit rushed, and, like I said, I was not thinking like I should. The charge was the major mistake. Spellcraft I know was right. See, in order to read from a scroll you have to make a spellcraft check unless you have read magic cast. I thought you would know that, Cat. It is listed in the DMG: Deciphering the writeing: The writing or scroll must be deciphered before a character can know exactly what it contains. This requires a Read Magic spell or a successful spellcraft check (DC 20+spell level) Even if for some reason I'm wrong, he still failed his caster check with the same roll. As to why I ran this absentmindedly, I mentioned in the TAVERN, where I took it news was supposed to be posted, that I would like only one fight. Jindl (no offense) gave me two. One and I would have time to think things out. Two makes things a bit rushed, especially since we have little enough time to run them with the loss of a day. I don't know if we dont have enough pitlords (unlikely), but I knew I was not going to have a lot of time. @Battousai: you must really have been angry at me for misspelling your name. i dont really know what happened, even if i failed the CASTER LEVEL check, i schould have moved to cover, where i would have had ac 18 and his charge wouldn't have hit. and i wrote to take a 5 feet step and cast defensly preventing a attack of oportunity, possibly stunning him and his horse... Probably right. I will rerun the fight. Give me until about 1 or so. It should be up. Note, however, that even in this event, you would not have been able to reach cover. Honestly, I knew there were mistakes in the fight. I wasn't expecting it to be right. @Cat: Well, I don't know what of this you know (or care) to read, but it certainly seems like you enjoy getting POed at other pitlords. Maybe I just will not do any for a while. @Jindl: Remove this "Be nice!" Maybe that is a good idea in your case.
Magagumo 05-02-04, 12:41 PM	Maintaining the requset by Jindl @Bat The Spellcraft check is only needed when one first acquires a scroll, so that one knows exactly what it is and how it functions Thus, unless you've just picked an ancient scroll off a dusty old shelf in an abandoned temple to Pelor, hoping that it contains the daylight spell needed to ward off the undead, all your scrolls are generally knwon as per the read magic spell. Every wizard knows the spell (and sorcerors and bards better know it as well ;)), it will never come up in our Arena. Hope that clarifies things. :) @Beldin I agree that you won't need to re-run, the person who was hurt by the error won anyways. I'm glad we have this opportunity to learn from our mistakes though, it's most of why I come here. :)
barrel_master 05-02-04, 12:45 PM	Hey! I take exeption to having Octavian refered to as 'she'. :)
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 01:03 PM	Re-did the fight. The only real change was the length and Irwin used a potion of Pro vs. Evil.
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 01:05 PM	Originally posted by Beldin Kedi vs Tanja: :blush: edited the spot and listen. shall i rerun the fight from the spot/hide tie? the correction would favour the winner anyway. @Battousai: you must really have been angry at me for misspelling your name. i dont really know what happened, even if i failed the CASTER LEVEL check, i schould have moved to cover, where i would have had ac 18 and his charge wouldn't have hit. and i wrote to take a 5 feet step and cast defensly preventing a attack of oportunity, possibly stunning him and his horse... please read tactics more carefully next time -Beldin Sorry, forgot the casting defensively. I'm trying to break habits from older editions of the game.
Jindl 05-02-04, 01:31 PM	@Mercy and Battousai - How are you guys determining the DC for the caster level check to cast a scroll that is a higher caster level than the PC's caster level? I noticed in the fight Battousai ran, the DC to cast a standard scroll: mirror image (CL3) was DC 12, and in the fight Mercy ran, the DC to cast a scroll: magic missile (CL7) was DC 14. Both DC's are incorrect. The DC to use a scroll that is a higher caster level than the PC is equal to the scroll's caster level +1. So for the scroll: mirror image (CL3) the caster level check DC should have been 4 (which Irwin passes easily). The caster level check DC for the scroll: magic missile (CL7) should have been 8 (which changes nothing in the fight). Do you guys get this? I think it may have some impact in the fight Battousai ran, but it changes nothing in the fight Mercy ran. I want to make sure everyone understands this, mainly for future reference. -Jindl
Mercy 05-02-04, 01:54 PM	@Jindl - I get it. I, for some un-known reason, calculated the DC based off a 7th spell (which requires a 13 level caster) and not the correct spell level of 1st with a 7th level caster creating it at a 7th caster level.
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 03:56 PM	Sorry. I thought the caster level check was 10+spell level. So mirror image was cast. Time for another re-run...
Beldin 05-02-04, 06:17 PM	@ Battousai: thanks for the reruns, but there are still some errors: - the hooves have an attack bonus of +6 - after casting shield i have an ac of 18, so irvin would not hit in round 5 and 6. - the dc for casting defensly is 15 + spell level
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-02-04, 08:37 PM	Posted the Kith Deathscythe vs Drahk Longfellow figth. I type the story later.
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 08:48 PM	Well, at least it was short. Just one thing that might have made this match a really comical ending. My horse should have gotten an attack of Opp from Drahk's Coup de Grace. I have no idea what happened round 1. I asked to quick mount and sunder his greatsword in the same round. Might have helped. Anyway, just some things I noticed.
MysticMonk2005 05-02-04, 08:49 PM	worse... then... what... kedi... did... for.... Sarah... I did send tactics, but they failed to reach him. I didn't get the notification till today.(very busy)
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-02-04, 08:53 PM	Originally posted by Battousai2005 Well, at least it was short. Just one thing that might have made this match a really comical ending. My horse should have gotten an attack of Opp from Drahk's Coup de Grace. I have no idea what happened round 1. I asked to quick mount and sunder his greatsword in the same round. Might have helped. Anyway, just some things I noticed. Okey, I add the AoO. I asume that you must use move action to mount your horse and then move action command your horse to attack?
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 08:54 PM	No. I can get my horse to attack and allow myself to attack. See the ride skill.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-02-04, 09:12 PM	Dammit! If you succeed your ride roll, then I must re-do the whole figth beginning from the 1 turn. Expect if you do not accept the present result. In any case, I continue this tomorrow. btw; you won (by winning stabilization contest whit Drahk) the match. But in bad side your horse died.
Battousai2005 05-02-04, 09:57 PM	Well, a win is a win. As for the horse, it would have been better if he had died next week. Then I could get my special mount at lev 5
MysticMonk2005 05-03-04, 12:19 AM	one question, if the fight is being redone, can i give you my tactics? Like I said, i didn't get notification that the e-mail failed to send. (From now on, im using PM's)
Arstimis 05-03-04, 01:08 AM	@Kaigan: there are a few things i know you did wrong in the fight. 1. Entropic shield gives a 20% miss chance...that means it misses 20% of the time. Anything below a 20 on a d100 would miss. Therefore only one of the 2 attacks should have hit. rather than 2 of the 3. 2. I cant make that many AoO a round. Only one a round for me, i dont have combat exptertise. Dang, i definately couldnt imagined that outcome. One Trog vs. a Druid, 4 wolves, and a brown bear, hmm...pretty fair fight. This goes down in my book as one of the most unfair fights i've ever been in
Pittbull 05-03-04, 06:19 AM	@Battousai: Yeah, realy nice story, not too many mistakes, only that one arrow didn’t hit, because with protection from chaos Angoshs AC should be 24 and he hit only 23 damage 10. But with Angoshs luck in dice-rolling, this should be no big point for the result of the fight. Enilias has still one MM left and after correction Angosh has 5 HP, so the second MM should be enough for him. Beside the two scrolls of fireball, Enilias has the scroll of see invisible. After two weeks of bad luck, perhaps next week the dice-god is with me again, so be aware next opponent. But again, beside the result, a real nice fight. :) :) :)
Smergel 05-03-04, 07:41 AM	I just posted this fight, my first. Could someone take a look and see if it looks alright? -Smergel
Jindl 05-03-04, 11:07 AM	Originally posted by Arstimis @Kaigan: there are a few things i know you did wrong in the fight. 1. Entropic shield gives a 20% miss chance...that means it misses 20% of the time. Anything below a 20 on a d100 would miss. Therefore only one of the 2 attacks should have hit. rather than 2 of the 3. 2. I cant make that many AoO a round. Only one a round for me, i dont have combat exptertise. Dang, i definately couldnt imagined that outcome. One Trog vs. a Druid, 4 wolves, and a brown bear, hmm...pretty fair fight. This goes down in my book as one of the most unfair fights i've ever been in Actually 2 other points of interest: 1. Jo'Li is a duergar, which means he is immune to poison. So the Trog's stench would have no effect on him. 2. Jo'Li is now suffering XP penalties (ex-monk1/Druid3 with favored class=fighter). So, Jo'Li should recieve 20% less gold for this victory. Please change the fight to reflect the less gold for winning. The not sickened wouldn't change the outcome, so just FYI. -Jindl
Mercy 05-03-04, 12:49 PM	Originally posted by Jindl Actually 2 other points of interest: 1. Jo'Li is a duergar, which means he is immune to poison. So the Trog's stench would have no effect on him. 2. Jo'Li is now suffering XP penalties (ex-monk1/Druid3 with favored class=fighter). So, Jo'Li should recieve 20% less gold for this victory. Please change the fight to reflect the less gold for winning. The not sickened wouldn't change the outcome, so just FYI. -Jindl I think there is one other point of interest. When an opponent moves from a threaten square and does anything but a single move action or a double move then the opponent provokes an AoO from threatening all creatures.
Jindl 05-03-04, 01:29 PM	Originally posted by Mercy I think there is one other point of interest. When an opponent moves from a threaten square and does anything but a single move action or a double move then the opponent provokes an AoO from threatening all creatures. Actually, you can always 5 ft step out of a threatened area and take an action without drawing an AoO. And you can withdraw as a full-round action. So, the four methods are single move + no other action, double move, withdraw as a full-round action, or 5 ft step + any action you want. -Jindl
Arstimis 05-03-04, 02:19 PM	I just noticed one thing in the Kage vs Heinrich fight. You are supposed to roll a 1d6 to see which image kage is Shooting at. The images AC is 10+size mod+dex. So he would have taken a few images out. Seeing as he never got high enough to hit Heinrich's real AC it wouldnt have had any bearing on the fights outcome
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 05-03-04, 02:29 PM	Well, I posted in Tavern thread, but I quate my message in here. Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Well, one thing actually I noticed what you forgot (otherwise you controlled my char well). You forgot make spell resistance check. Drows have 12+char level naturall magic resistance. So, before those ray of frostes would had damaged me, you should had rolled did the spell get trough. Also if I recall, ray of frost is ranged touch attack (so hit must be rolled). btw; Does my char now raise a level now that he had losed three times in the row? Also do I get gold from the match (despite I losted). btw; I did not need re-do the figth (Kith failed his ride check to quick mount).
^Rayne^ 05-03-04, 02:31 PM	Myrridin, I'm not sure why you put in the note about Aiki needing Quick Draw to draw swords or sheath weapons while moving? In the book it says on a move action or double move action a PC can draw weapons as they move as long as they have a BAB of +1. If the PC has the Two-weapon Fighting feat they can draw their main hand weapon and off-hand weapon in that move as well. The tactics I wrote up always took this sort of thing into consideration.... Also I'm not around my books right now but I thought that an Adamantine weapon could be used against the Spectral hand because of its enhancement bonus. As I already stated I am not at home but I thought that being a MW weapon with an enhancement bonus it would be able to hit the spectral hand? I just wanted to note that I really enjoyed reading this fight. I was surprised it even got this far. Aiki may have not made all of his saves but I thought he did surprisingly well. I never imagined he would even manage to take the horse out let alone start hurting the caster. Thanks for the fun battle.
Jindl 05-03-04, 02:41 PM	Originally posted by ^Rayne^ Myrridin, I'm not sure why you put in the note about Aiki needing Quick Draw to draw swords or sheath weapons while moving? In the book it says on a move action or double move action a PC can draw weapons as they move as long as they have a BAB of +1. If the PC has the Two-weapon Fighting feat they can draw their main hand weapon and off-hand weapon in that move as well. The tactics I wrote up always took this sort of thing into consideration.... Also I'm not around my books right now but I thought that an Adamantine weapon could be used against the Spectral hand because of its enhancement bonus. As I already stated I am not at home but I thought that being a MW weapon with an enhancement bonus it would be able to hit the spectral hand? I think Myrridin was just making a suggestion about using quick draw. As it was, Aiki spent a move action sheathing swords and a move action drawing the bow, which meant no attack that round. If the kobold had Quick Draw, he could have spent a move action sheathing the swords (remember, quick draw doesn't help you sheathe weapons any faster), a free action drawing the bow, leaving him a standard action to attack. So, quickdraw would have given Aiki at least one extra attack in the fight (and since your opponent only had 8 hps when you died, that extra attack might have mattered). About the spectral hand, it is incorporeal, which means it ignores all damage from non-magical weapons. An adamantium blade has the same bonus to hit as a masterwork blade, but it is not magical and it cannot harm an incorporeal target. With the increasing numbers of PC's that have DR ?/magic and using spectral hands and such, you may want to get your sword enchanted to be +1 (which will at least give you a +1 bonus to damage). I really thought the kobold was going to win this one. Ah well, better luck next time. -Jindl
Myrridin 05-03-04, 02:58 PM	Originally posted by Jindl I think Myrridin was just making a suggestion about using quick draw. As it was, Aiki spent a move action sheathing swords and a move action drawing the bow, which meant no attack that round. If the kobold had Quick Draw, he could have spent a move action sheathing the swords (remember, quick draw doesn't help you sheathe weapons any faster), a free action drawing the bow, leaving him a standard action to attack. So, quickdraw would have given Aiki at least one extra attack in the fight (and since your opponent only had 8 hps when you died, that extra attack might have mattered). Jindl: Thanks, that's all I was talking about. I know that you can draw and move, but there were times where it would have definetly been to Aiki's advantage to be able to not have to take a full round sheathing a weapon and drawing another. I only mentioned it because the fight was so close that it came down to every attack mattering. About the spectral hand, it is incorporeal, which means it ignores all damage from non-magical weapons. An adamantium blade has the same bonus to hit as a masterwork blade, but it is not magical and it cannot harm an incorporeal target. With the increasing numbers of PC's that have DR ?/magic and using spectral hands and such, you may want to get your sword enchanted to be +1 (which will at least give you a +1 bonus to damage). I really thought the kobold was going to win this one. Ah well, better luck next time. -Jindl Yeah, I had to check it, but the adamantium just means it ignores hardness and is harder to sunder. Had it been a magic weapon, it could've hit the hand. I really thought Aiki had it, until his luck just ran out at the end. Very close fight; a lot closer than I thought it was going to be. At least you got the horse. :) Arstimis: Heh, yeah, I missed that when I posted it, and then went back, saw it, and realized it didn't make any difference. That was a very high AC there....dang.
Jindl 05-03-04, 04:04 PM	@Ethendril - Pretty good job on a really difficult fight to run. I just have one question (its the only thing I see as potentially fight altering): When Umbra succeeds at an ability draining touch attack, doesn't he gain 5 hps. When its a critical hit, doesn't he gain 10 hps? If the answer to either of these questions is yes, then Ebelin's Magic Missile didn't drop Umbra right away, and Umbra may have drained some more Str. Of course, if the shadow was able to drain Ebelin to 0, then he becomes helpless and the shadow's touch begins draining con (ouch a CDG with Con drain...) Other minor errors I don't think are fight altering. But if you could respond on this one, that'd be great. -Jindl
^Rayne^ 05-03-04, 04:11 PM	Thanks for the feedback. Please don't think for a second that I didn't enjoy reading the battle. I thought the fight was very well run Myrridin. I had actually planned on having magic weapons this build but after last fight with the Sundering machine I decided it would be better to get the blade made of Adamantine before I started spending money having it enchanted. Unfortunately that gamble didn't pay off. I also really want to have Quick Draw feat and I probably would if I had the extra feat humans get but to get one feat I have to give up something else. Right now I'm looking at Weapon Specialization and the Run feat for his 6th level feats. I don't know if Quick Draw would be better than either of these feats in the next level? Myrridin I think you did a superb job.
Magagumo 05-03-04, 04:16 PM	@Mercy Well run fight, I liked the story :) Couple things: 1. Umbra cannot stabilize, as he is undead, so he was obliterated after the MM (god bless free one month waiting times). 2. I liked how you rem'd that it would take a full-round for Zorander to leave once movement speed was 1/2 of 5', but the tentacles actually do not need to make touch attacks (they automatically grapple). 3. Thanks for running the fight, you handled Zorander well. I I'd like to see him in your hands again :) (Not really an issue, but lists are fun ;))
Ethendril 05-03-04, 04:22 PM	Originally posted by Jindl @Ethendril - Pretty good job on a really difficult fight to run. I just have one question (its the only thing I see as potentially fight altering): When Umbra succeeds at an ability draining touch attack, doesn't he gain 5 hps. When its a critical hit, doesn't he gain 10 hps? If the answer to either of these questions is yes, then Ebelin's Magic Missile didn't drop Umbra right away, and Umbra may have drained some more Str. Of course, if the shadow was able to drain Ebelin to 0, then he becomes helpless and the shadow's touch begins draining con (ouch a CDG with Con drain...) Other minor errors I don't think are fight altering. But if you could respond on this one, that'd be great. -Jindl Hmmm...I guess I missed that Umbra gains that damage he deals. It wasn't in the description of the shadow. Could you point me to the source on that? I suppose this could change the fight, but Umbra has a +3 touch attack vs. Ebelin's 20 AC vs. touch attacks (10 base, +4 dex, +2 wis, +4 armor, which actually counts against incorporeal attacks), so Umbra needs a 17 to hit him. I was floored when Umbra not only hit, but did critical damage. Anyway, If you could point me to the rules on gaining those hit points, I could roll an additional attack against Ebelin and an additional magic missile against Umbra. The only change in the fight if Umbra doesn't hit is that Ebelin would take one more round to cast magic missile, then not cast shield before attacking.
Myrridin 05-03-04, 04:28 PM	Thanks Rayne, that's much appreciated. I enjoy running Aiki, as he's fairly simple, and you always manage to get the most out of him that's possible. I really thought he had that fight, and if he'd gotten a little lucky, he needed one more hit. Sven was down to 5 hp. He might want to invest in some healing. :) No problem, I understand the decision to go for adamantine weapons, sundering sucks when it happens to you. I'd just invest in a magic weapon next. Personally, I'd lay off Weapon Spec for a little bit, but that's just me.
Jindl 05-03-04, 04:29 PM	@Ethendril (EDITED) - I wouldn't worry about changing anything. The odds are that Umbra would either miss or fail to deal enough str damage to matter, and Ebelin would certainly destroy him with the second MM. But the rule can be found by looking up the ability drain special attack in the MM. The main reason I know this is because Anna has a similar ability. -Jindl
Ethendril 05-03-04, 04:37 PM	Okay, for my own peace of mind I rolled another attack roll for Umbra, which missed, so I don't think it would change anything. Signing off... -Ethendril (or Mercy as Mag likes to call me...or Ebelin as Jindl likes to call me)
daemones 05-03-04, 05:12 PM	@Kazz: Drow SR: Doh! I knew I'd miss something.
Magagumo 05-03-04, 05:59 PM	!! Sorry Ethendril!! I rem that two ppl were running my fights and I was too lazy to look it up!! ^_^;;; Many apologies friend (@Mercy, hopefulyl you win simlar accolades from me :P)
MysticMonk2005 05-03-04, 08:37 PM	Um... why was my horse attacking his? It should of attacked him...
Kaigan 05-03-04, 10:56 PM	@Arstimis: Ok, I changed the miss/hit thing for produce flame. It did not change the outcome. I am not going to change your AoO's because it will take too long, and it would not change the outcome. Yeah, it was pretty unfair, but hey, you survived for a while. @Jindl: Jo'li didn't have to make a save vs. Stench as Zaphod never got close enough to use it. Also i put up the money, hopefully it is correct.
Limit 05-04-04, 12:19 AM	I'm dumb, I forgot the spellcraft checks Aku requested in Aku vs. Kiri, but it wouldn't have made much of a difference. Will make a note to self about this in the future.
Battousai2005 05-04-04, 10:05 AM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 Um... why was my horse attacking his? It should of attacked him... Simple really. The horse would attack what was more of a threat to his rider. Kith was not much of a threat at the moment. He was sorta busy dying. My horse had just attacked you and thus was a threat.
Magagumo 05-04-04, 10:08 AM	@ Limit Aku vs. Kiri looked good, with one exception- Even when Mystic was knocked unconscious, her entangle spell would still have been running. Obviously, Aku could have failed the entangle check and had -2 to his spectral hand attack (I think he uses Str for that, right), but he clearly did not miss with double 20s (a lot fo them recently :-P). Also, i knwo his Concentration check si amzaing, so no big there. Just thought I'd point that out :)
Jindl 05-06-04, 08:45 AM	@Druid Roxors - I have a question about Ixidor's hps near the end of the fight. Please read my comments (in red) through the following quote: Originally posted by Druid Roxors Round 34: - Torelilison attacks (Att: 10 + 12 = 22 Vs 25, Failure; Att: 2 + 7 = 9 Vs 25, Failure) - Ixidor attacks. (Att: 15 + 10 = 25 Vs 23, Success!, Dmg: 22) - Hydra attacks (18, 14, 2, 1, 15 + 4 Failure) and fails. Archangel Ixidor: 34/43 (-23,-1,2), Mage Armor (long), Protection From Evil (5/40), Bless (4/40), Dodging (-), Aid (4/40) Hydra: 55/55 (-20,-1) Toreilison Wevlun: 22/52 (-23,-2,2) Fly (6/50) Okay, so at the end of Rnd 34, Ixidor has 34 hps and Tori has 22 hps. Round 35: - Torelilison attacks (Att: 16 + 12 = 28 Vs 25, Success! Dmg: 10; Att: 18 + 7 = 25 Vs 25 Success! Confirmation: 10 + 12 = 22, Failure, Dmg: 7) - Ixidor attacks. (Att: 5 + 10 = 15 Vs 23, Failure) - Hydra attacks (20!, 14, 12, 7, 13 + 4 Failure, Confirmation: 4, Failure, Dmg: 10) and hits! Archangel Ixidor: 21/43 (-23,-1,2), Mage Armor (long), Protection From Evil (5/40), Bless (4/40), Dodging (-), Aid (4/40) Hydra: 55/55 (-20,-1) Toreilison Wevlun: 12/52 (-23,-2,2) Fly (6/50) In Rnd 35, Tori did 17 pts of damage, so Ixidor should only have 17 hps left. Tori's hps are correctly listed as 12 left. Round 36: - Torelilison attacks (Att: 19 + 12 = 31 Vs 25, Success! Confirmation: 12 + 12 = 24, Failure, Dmg: 11; Att: 18 + 7 = 25 Vs 25 Success! Confirmation: 20! Dmg: 14) - Ixidor takes 3 falling damage, he does not stabilize. - Hydra attacks (17, 13,20!, 10, 20! Confirmation: 2, 5, Failure, Dmg: 11) and hits twice! In Rnd 36, Tori deals 25 hps of damage and Ixidor falls for 3 more pts, for a total of 28 pts of damage. This should drop him to -11, ending the fight. Tori would win, although thanks to a parting shot by the Hydra, she only has 1 hp left. Archangel Ixidor: -7/43 (-23,-1,2), Mage Armor (long), Protection From Evil (5/40), Bless (4/40), Dodging (-), Aid (4/40) (does not stabilize) Hydra: 55/55 (-20,-1) Toreilison Wevlun: 1/52 (-23,-2,2) Fly (6/50) Please take a look at this, because if it is a simple math error, it changed the outcome of the fight. Thanks! -Jindl
Caterane 05-06-04, 08:54 AM	My DR negates the falling damage. Btw, you didn`t push the hydra to grapple as I wrote in my tactics
Jindl 05-06-04, 11:36 AM	Because the DR negated the falling damage, Ixidor is at -8 hps at the end of Rnd 36, and Tori is a 1 hp. In Rnd 37, Ixidor fails to stabilize and drops to -9 hps. Tori withdraws (moves through a threatened area) and draws AoO's from each head, 1 hits, dealing enough damage to make Tori negative. As soon as Tori becomes unconscious, her rage ends, and she instantly drops below -10. Ixidor wins the fight with -9 hps... If only Tori had taken a 5 ft step downward and full attacked the helpless Ixidor, she might have hit and dropped him below -10 before the Hydra could kill her. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 11:53 AM	@ Cat: I would have pushed the hydra to grapple, negating a very good attack in your part as it is a full round action (possibly negating the first or second attack). But the important thing is that the hydra cannot grapple while entangled. Since it lacks the "Improved Grab" (not grapple) monster feat, it must move to his square, but that is impossible. @ Jindl: Yes, DR would apply, taking a 5ft step downwards would certainly be wise. But, considering that she was at 1 hp and I clearly stated at the end of the fight that I had forgoten to use Smite Evil, The end result would be the same. The hydra would have incapacitated her in the previous round and killed her in the next one.
Magagumo 05-06-04, 11:55 AM	So why didn't Toir just step down and kill him? I don't recall asking to run from the hydra... also, I can't withdraw if I'm raging I thought, so wouldn't Tori just keep going after him? Also, I thought the Combat Reflexes thing meant the hydra simply had a number of AoO equal to its heads, not that it could use all of them at once.
Jindl 05-06-04, 12:04 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors @ Cat: I would have pushed the hydra to grapple, negating a very good attack in your part as it is a full round action (possibly negating the first or second attack). But the important thing is that the hydra cannot grapple while entangled. Since it lacks the "Improved Grab" (not grapple) monster feat, it must move to his square, but that is impossible. @ Jindl: Yes, DR would apply, taking a 5ft step downwards would certainly be wise. But, considering that she was at 1 hp and I clearly stated at the end of the fight that I had forgoten to use Smite Evil, The end result would be the same. The hydra would have incapacitated her in the previous round and killed her in the next one. Good catch on the grapple issue. You are absolutely correct. Since the entangled hydra cannot move, it cannot maintain the grapple. As for the Smite Evil, I think Ixidor wanted to use that on his first melee attack, which missed. So I don't think any additional damage would have been caused by Smite Evil. Originally posted by Magagumo So why didn't Toir just step down and kill him? I don't recall asking to run from the hydra... also, I can't withdraw if I'm raging I thought, so wouldn't Tori just keep going after him? Also, I thought the Combat Reflexes thing meant the hydra simply had a number of AoO equal to its heads, not that it could use all of them at once. You can withdraw while raging (it's not excluded by the rules). Personally, I think you should have continued the attack, but I'm not sure if your tactics discussed the issue. As for combat reflexes, it says when the hydra takes an AoO, each head gets its own AoO. So, a 5-headed hydra acts like 5 creatures all taking AoO's. Additionally, since it has a dex of 12, each head could take 2 AoO's in a round. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 12:05 PM	@ Magagumo: You are right, I considered it as if it were making a full attack, I believe I was too hasty with the fight to notice those mistakes. Nevertheless, As I posted above, she would be dead already from the Smite Evil ability. Even before drawing attacks of oportunity, before round 37 commences. Edit: I see About the Heads... Then I ran it correctly, without thinking. You should write this things on your hydra entry Cat :)
Magagumo 05-06-04, 12:10 PM	Actually, Druid, wasn't Ixidor's first good opp (quoting his tactics) to use his simte on the round he first used Corona? He goot a 17 vs. a 23, correct? Well, Smite Evil from Paladin gives him his Charisma bonus to his attack (+5) and +2 dmg from paladin, and his half-celestial Smite Evil only gives him +4 dmg (his HD) as it doesn't function the same way as the Paladin's version does. Also, Smiting can only be done with melee attacks (as far as the Book of Exalted Deeds and PHB have led me to believe), so his first swing with Corona would have been a final 22 vs. Tori's 23.... SO you see, the 1st opp resulted in failure, no? I'm pushing this here, but it does honestly look like Tori won.
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 12:11 PM	@ Jindl: Ixidor has two smite evils: 1 Race Ability dealing 4 extra damage 1 Paladin ability dealing 2 extra damage
Magagumo 05-06-04, 12:14 PM	Aye, and he said to use both on the first good opportunity, and there's nothing that restricted him from stacking them....And it missed, neh? Edit: @ Jindl Heh, I see we respond at the same time. If Combat Reflexes and Hydra's really work like that... *whistles* They're even more more dangerous and lovable than ever before :D Also, I don't suppose my tactics would need to cover the possibility of my opponent fallign unconscious, since I believe killing him would always be top priority :)
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 12:16 PM	I quoteSmite evil: use both smite evils on first good opportunity. Being that both are supernatural abilities with no specified casting time, they take a standard action. Only one per turn, using the most powerful one (race ability) on the first round and paladin ability on the second round, which hit, dealing 2 extra damage.
Magagumo 05-06-04, 12:20 PM	Actually, they're free actions made while taking your attack. After all, if they were standard actions, one would nto be able to take any attack at all, let alone a ful attack action. It is merely an addendum to an attack, like poison or the cleric's Smite ability from the destruction Domain. What you have described is more like the Death Domain's death touch ability.
Jindl 05-06-04, 12:25 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors I quote Being that both are supernatural abilities with no specified casting time, they take a standard action. Only one per turn, using the most powerful one (race ability) on the first round and paladin ability on the second round, which hit, dealing 2 extra damage. Smiting evil (regardless of the type) is part of an attack action and can be done as part of a full attack. It is not a standard action. Ixidor could (and stated that he wanted to) use both in his first attack, and as Mag stated, that attack would still miss. Smite Evil has no effect on this fights outcome. What should be in discussion is Tori's decision to withdraw. I would like to remind everyone that this is just a discussion, and nobody should feel insulted or anything like that. We are all friends here, and Druid did a good job on a tough fight under short notice. It's totally up to him if he wants to change anything, because the only potential mistake I can see is in how Tori acted once Ixidor was at negative hps. And that is a vague tactical thing, so I won't say that Druid was wrong to have Tori withdraw out of danger and let Ixidor bleed to death. It was highly unlikely that the hydra would hit with an attack anyway. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 12:27 PM	In my opinion, It works just in the same way as other spells and effects. For instance: Your successful melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 5d6). When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or made out of metal, carrying a lot of metal, or the like). Casting time specified of one action, and attack included. Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. No casting time specified, default is 1 action, Attack included. (Note that its a Normal attack, another smite evil wouldn't make it normal) Any arguments from the Jindl and Cat on this issue? I really want to do it right. Should it warrant an outcome change it should be done.
Myrridin 05-06-04, 12:30 PM	Originally posted by MysticMonk2005 Aemon vs Zephin is up. fast fight, I probly wont be able to fix any mistakes, sorry. The fight was run incorrectly in a lot of instances; not the least being the distance we were apart, the fact that there are pillars in the way which prevent an opponent from running right next to me. We're 200 feet apart, so Aemon can't get next to me, this was discussed awhile back. You need a straight line, and there isn't one with the obstacles. The best you can do is double move on the horse, since you can't run with the straight line. If you can move 3 times movement, you're still not next to me. That alone lost me the fight, as once I'm invisible, I'm not in the same area, so the next round I'm flying, and then it's a totally different fight. Since pairings are today; I'd like the fight run this week, with correct application of the arena. If this isn't possible, then I guess I'll take the repairing, since I used nothing.
Magagumo 05-06-04, 12:31 PM	@Jindl *Nod* I think these are the discussions I like, pure rules and seeking to clear up misunderstandings. @Druid I hope you aren't feeling barraged here, I don't believe either Jindl or I are attempting to attack you, just edify you. I thank you for putting Tori's health into consideration, but a downed foe should be eliminated post-haste. Mind roling the attack roll for the step-down attack? I hate to say it, but there's a chance for a 1 and all (Ixidor's AC is currently 10-5 dex+4 mage+2 prot-4prone= 7, so only miss on the one.) What I find funny is that if Tori had first drank the Bull's Str potion (which you followed correctly since she would not have been able to attack the wand that round. I meant for you to have her drink, then attack, but you followed me to the letter, and that's good. You're forcing me to be more clear in my tactics :)). BUt yea, that Bull's Str would have resulted in 2 more dmg per hit and the confiramtion of a critical. Likely, that combination would have prevented most of this.
Jindl 05-06-04, 12:31 PM	Originally posted by Druid Roxors No casting time specified, default is 1 action, Attack included. (Note that its a Normal attack, another smite evil wouldn't make it normal) Any arguments from the Jindl and Cat on this issue? I really want to do it right. Should it warrant an outcome change it should be done. The normal attack is referring to the action required (such as how a standard attack is a single attack action or a full attack is an attack action for each 5 pts of BAB). Also, please see my argument above about what I think is the only real issue in the fight. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 12:31 PM	In that case, I will quote from Tori's Tactics She will continue to pursue him until her rage wears out (in 8 rounds), refusing to yield due to damage or imminent death. You have 1 chance of hitting (ill keep the hydra's dice rolls) and if Cat is fine with it. I will make a Single roll against his prone dexterity-less AC and see what happens. (In an online roller, btw)
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 12:37 PM	Originally posted by Magagumo I hope you aren't feeling barraged here, I don't believe either Jindl or I are attempting to attack you, just edify you. In the very least. I am the first one to assault when I see something wrong in a fight. I am glad that this fight can be resolved in the fairest way.
Jindl 05-06-04, 12:40 PM	Originally posted by Myrridin Since pairings are today; I'd like the fight run this week, with correct application of the arena. If this isn't possible, then I guess I'll take the repairing, since I used nothing. @Myrridin + Beldin - Please see the Tavern thread. This fight has been voided, and both characters remain the same level and will be repaired this week. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 12:42 PM	Btw: I just found another problem with the fight, should the final roll for the final blow be executed on an online roller, I will add the 5 Rolls missing for the hydra on round 32. The hydra's strenght check shouldn't have been done. It should have attacked just like in the next rounds. Even if it was freed, it would loose its next reflex save. I think that roll was the last check I did at that point and I did it before the AoO was resolved, I didn't take into consideration what the hydra should do that round. (I was considering that the hydra would act without you within range)
Magagumo 05-06-04, 12:45 PM	*Nod* Fair enough, just as long as Tori isn't trying to do something crazy and stupid like CDG while threatened by the hydra :P *Shakes Head* That has been one lucky hydraof late... so many 20's
Caterane 05-06-04, 12:45 PM	Well, I don`t see the point in this discussion since there was no mistake but just a pitlord decision. If Mag would`ve stepped forward and missed, then the hydra would`ve killed him and the discussion would go like "Why didnt I back away and shoot savely from above?". This is highly hypothetical. But if we want to go that way then I want to mention that I wrote "grapple him" and not attack with Corona. In grapple, Tori cannot use her often critic-dealing scimitar (41 damage would be negated!), my grapple is better and the hydra assists. Also my DR applies so it looks much brighter for Ixidor then Tori. And another thing is the deflect arrow feat. Ok, Mag had a good idea in readying but my tactic was based on the deflecting arrows and after a couple of rounds Ixidor may have adapted to it, perhaps with a running fly to Tori, then steal her bow, and get back to the hydra, just to name one example that I wrote in my tactics. You see, I can also ask questions "why druid?". If there would`ve been a miscalculation then I would say correct it even if it alters the outcome but what you are discussing is - as I said - hypocratical. So if Mag wants something altered then I am requesting it likewise, which culminates in a rerun ...and everything just due to a simple "withdraw and shoot savely or not" Cat Btw: Druid, did you incorporate Bless into the hydra's attacks?
Magagumo 05-06-04, 12:57 PM	Straw Men, Cat, Straw Men The discussion is not "Why didn't I win?" but "Why weren't my tactics followed." We're close to resolving this issue, Cat. To follow your tactics to the letter, Ixidor should have cast Daylight, not drawn and swung with Corona. But, your tactics also state that when Tori is flying, Ixidor should go and steal her bow (tough thing to do, unarmed, but I'd say we've got an equal opportunity). So should Druid have done the archer war, as you requested, or the grapple war, as you also requested? On the other hand, my tactics suggested that Tori should have drank Bull'S Str first, but that was missed. Druid is good at following our tactics to the letter, and thus we must bow to his method of doing things.
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 12:59 PM	@ Cat: All those rounds you were exchanging blows, you had the upper hand. you had a higher chance of hitting (5%) and damage. Also, you had better healing capabilities and were camping besides the hydra. There is no need to chance what you did in the good 30+ rounds of archery action. From her tactics At 55' in the air, Ixidor will not be able to return to the sanctity of his hydra if he fly-bys You cannot steal her bow (safely) as you wanted to stay within the protection of your hydra. About the grappling, I thought from your tactics that IF she grappled you, you wished to countergrapple her. But seeing as you didn't mention corona in your tactics, you would have, indeed, grappled. In a grapple you have 1 more attack point and superior damage. Should this be what happens, Ixidor would definately win. @ Jindl, Mag: As it currently stands, Ixidor should have grappled and won. I do not believe it warrants a rerun as Ixidor's stats are much higher then Tori's.
Magagumo 05-06-04, 01:04 PM	@ Druid, actually, Cat's grappling tactics only stand if Tori stole/sundered his bow. At least that's what his tactics say. Yes, I'm being picky here, but you've annyoed me with your careless accussatiosn, Cat. You can't throw out a bunch of tactics and demand the Mod pick exactly which one will work best at the time. But, if Druid insists that Ixidor initiated a grapple attempt on Round 34 (after he would have cast Daylight on Round 33), then I suppose his larger hp at that point (and the dangers of being by a hydra while grappled) will force me to conceed my point.
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 01:07 PM	Also, I forgot to implement the bless bonus on the hydra's attacks! Dealing damage on: Round 32 and 34. Minimum damage 4 per hit, Average 17. I am really sorry about all these mistakes, but, considering it was a very long fight and I rushed through it because It was late night and am Still under Academic pressure, I would have expected many more mistakes... :)
Jindl 05-06-04, 01:12 PM	Well, I think that about settles it. It would seem that the result stands. @Druid - I still think you did a good job, even adding a story despite the time crunch you faced. FYI: Ethendril PM'd me to leave Dusk out so Corinthius can face Heinrich this week. Would you like a fight to run or did you want the week off? (Please post your answer on the Tavern thread.) @Mag and Cat - I think Druid did a pretty good job sorting through the mountain of tactics you guys sent. I would make the suggestion to you both to try and simplify your tactics in the future. There is a hazard in giving too many tactics to your pitlord, because sometimes what you really wanted gets lost in the swirl of extra possibilities. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 05-06-04, 01:21 PM	I would just like to make a request: - Make clearer tactics. - Cat has no indication of attacking while on melee if the enemy starts no grapple - Mag Strength potion and raging towards the wand. Nevertheless, In the future, Ill run the fights on time and ask if there is anything unclear.