Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sindorin 06-01-05, 02:58 PM	There is only a bit more than an hour left to edit, everyone. Please make sure to write something relevant to "Ready 1 June 2005, ECL X" on your heading lines of each of your intended-to-be-ready gladiators. That makes it easier for Pitlords to pair you accurately at whatever level that you wish. You could even challenge the Harvester at ECL 20, and I'm sure Cat would love to stomp on you. Also, remember to BE NICE!
SoulLord 06-01-05, 03:14 PM	Not sure If the editing time is over so as to not risk a disqualification for editing I'll post it here. Ready for June 1st ECL 3 Heindal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6204381&postcount=279)
Sindorin 06-01-05, 03:16 PM	You're fine. The deadline hits at 2 pm in Mexico, so you should have around 40-45 minutes left to add everything.
Sindorin 06-01-05, 03:58 PM	Ding! Time's up! Pairings will be rolled soon, do not edit your character sheets. Edit: Actually, My computer seems to be a couple minutes fast...
Pitlords 06-01-05, 05:48 PM	First of all: ROFL! FotW Threads Opened: 20 FotW Threads Stolen by Megrim_Lord: 2 FotW Threads Stolen by T'Var: 5 I hope you don't add the ones I opened :D PAIRINGS DONE Send your tactics early to your pitlord who (hopefully :rolleyes: ) runs your fight till tuesday 8 AM, else he loses his credit, gains a negative credit and another one if the fight won't be posted at all. If you cannot finish your fight, tell us here on time. Credit Balances: Arena Fights: +2: Caterane, Pittbull, Zerone, Xanadu, Cerebus, Malither +1: Jindl, Cellardweller, Sindorin, Huan, Kaigan Active PCs: -1: Jindl, Sindorin, Huan, Kaigan -2: Caterane Questers: +10: King Uther +3: Huan +2: Megrim Lord -1: Pittbull, Arstimis -2: Jindl, Sindorin, Malither Cool Guys: +1: Caterane +10: King Uther +3: Huan +2: Zerone, Xanadu, Cerebus, Megrim Lord +1: Cellardweller, Pittbull, Caterane +0: Kaigan, Malither -1: Arstimis -2: Jindl, Sindorin Ok, I guess that's it. Good luck! @Kaigan/Pittbull: I can pair Eiletha vs Hagrid if you like. Pitlord: Cat
Pittbull 06-01-05, 06:07 PM	Hagrid is ready, if Kaigan wants a fight.
Jindl 06-01-05, 07:27 PM	"Ah crap! I got paired against Ixenthor." the Elder exclaimed to Bubo as they looked over this weeks pairings. The owl cocked his head slightly and responded, "Don't worry about it boss. Ixenthor is probably thinking, 'Ah crap, I got paired against the Elder.'" Smiling, the Elder patted his longtime friend on the head as they walked away to make preparations... @Cellar - I don't envy you this fight. Tactics may take a while, but I'll PM them when they're finished. @Cat - Good luck. -Jindl
bgt 06-01-05, 07:51 PM	Why am not on the pairings? I was supposed to be going after two shocker lizards this week.
Kaigan 06-01-05, 08:17 PM	Hagrid is ready, if Kaigan wants a fight. Do it!
Sindorin 06-01-05, 09:31 PM	First of all: ROFL! FotW Threads Opened: 20 FotW Threads Stolen by Megrim_Lord: 2 FotW Threads Stolen by T'Var: 5 I hope you don't add the ones I opened Hehe, I counted only the ones since you dubbed me the official fight of the week thread opener. That way, the ones I counted from Megrim and T'Var can be stated as 'stolen'. :D
Sindorin 06-01-05, 09:34 PM	Yay, I don't have to write any tactics... but I have three active characters...
Salzorin 06-01-05, 11:52 PM	@Cerebus: Tactics for Mataichi sent
xanadu 06-02-05, 01:01 AM	Pittbull - tactics for Necavi and RakkaR sent. Cerebus - tactics for Xyanthraxia sent. Pitlords - what does week 2 mean for Eiletha Surion (Kaigan) vs Meinrad (Salrantol)?
Salrantol 06-02-05, 01:16 AM	Pitlords - what does week 2 mean for Eiletha Surion (Kaigan) vs Meinrad (Salrantol)? It means our fight didn't get run last week. Tactics sent via PM.
Caterane 06-02-05, 02:14 AM	Why am not on the pairings? I was supposed to be going after two shocker lizards this week. Oh sorry! I even wrote it on my list. Miniquest: Brogan Galanodel (bgt) quests for a Shocker Lizard: Pittbull Pittbull +1 credit. Pittbull, if you run it in a seperate thread with a new map, you'll get another credit. Just tell me. EDIT: Bgt, there's a problem with that Quest. First of all, you can only go on a MINIquest with an EL of up to your ECL-2. You have to be level 4 to miniquest for a Shocker Lizard. A regular 3-week Quest would be possible though. But more importantly, you cannot use it until level 6! It has CR 2 which is not available until lvl 6. You can use CR 1 anytime. Perhaps you want to quest for 6 regular lizards instead? :( Alternatively, I can pair you up with Coralias (Kaigan). I have asked Pittbull but same ECLs have priority so if you want to fight, you'll get a fight. Tell me your decision. Pitlords - what does week 2 mean for Eiletha Surion (Kaigan) vs Meinrad (Salrantol)? That's better than [Extended]. It clearly shows the week this fight is in. Technically the same though.
Pittbull 06-02-05, 02:16 AM	Do it! Fight: Hagrid II (Pittbull) vs. ?????? (Kaigan): Catarane Eiletha is still paired, from last week, I'll wait for her if you want a late pairing, after Xanadu has finsished the fight. But I'll take any other opponent too. @Xanadu: Tactics received. @bgt: Do you have the time for a mini-quest-like-style in an own thread or do you want to send me a normal tactic, it needs to be finished on wednesday. ;)
Caterane 06-02-05, 02:23 AM	Sorry Peter but Brogan and Eiletha are in the same league and this takes priority. You can still challenge the Harvester though :D
Pittbull 06-02-05, 02:26 AM	Where is he??? :fight!: How much XP do I get, if Hagrid II loses against Harvey II, might be a little be unfair! :D
Sindorin 06-02-05, 02:28 AM	True, at that level a loss to a level 20 may be just as lucrative as a win at his own level...
Pitlords 06-02-05, 02:31 AM	Heh, ye sly dogs. There's of course a xp cap for losing a fight (cap = your ECL * 100) so it's 400 xp if you lose. If you win however you're rich. Brogan (bgt) vs Coralias (Kaigan): Pittbull has been added to the Roster. Kaigan -1, Pittbull+1 @Kaigan: You're running out of credits. If you want to continue to activate 4-5 PCs a week you have to increase the number of fights/quests/campaigns/etc. How's your campaign preparation going?
Salrantol 06-02-05, 02:38 AM	@Zerone & @Malither76: Tactics sent via PM!
Caterane 06-02-05, 09:08 AM	Tactics sent for Ixenthor, Mer-Man, Uhmentarymster, and Indri.
SoulLord 06-02-05, 10:59 AM	Waiting for starting location before tactics are sent.......
Caterane 06-02-05, 11:14 AM	Waiting for starting location before tactics are sent....... It's probably the best if you just write your Pitlord the position within Box A and have him adjust it appropriately if you start in a different box
Cerebus13 06-02-05, 11:19 AM	It's probably the best if you just write your Pitlord the position within Box A and have him adjust it appropriately if you start in a different boxPerhaps this can become standard procedure? Sometimes I forget to figure out starting positions immediately after pairings are posted and I don't want to discourage people from sending tactics early.
Caterane 06-02-05, 11:27 AM	Good idea. Ok, it's Standard procedure now :D Seriously, there's no need to know the box. If you want to start behind the "left pillar" then this will be true for every box.
King Uther 06-02-05, 11:34 AM	@Caterane Tactics for Sinnoch vs Damon have been sent via PM, I would have sent them by email but I forgot that you wanted it that way. If you still want it there I'll resend them.
Luni 06-02-05, 11:55 AM	@cerebus: Tactics sent by pm.
SoulLord 06-02-05, 12:00 PM	Tactics vs Barak Brigandslayer sent by e-mail.
Pittbull 06-02-05, 12:54 PM	Fight Mer-Man vs. Necavi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6339816&postcount=1596) is posted!
Malither76 06-02-05, 01:15 PM	@Salrantol, tactics received, @Zerone just need yours now :)
Cerebus13 06-02-05, 01:24 PM	@Salzorin, xanadu, Luni - tactics received @Zerone - still need tactics ---- @Malither - tactics sent for Greevus
Malither76 06-02-05, 01:29 PM	@Cerebus, got tactics for Greevus, @Iced need yours
xanadu 06-02-05, 06:53 PM	Pittbull, Yeah I was afraid he'd bring his crab...I was hoping he'd get greedy for extra XP. I probably would have went dorje and not biofeedback given the choice & manifested the fire ray on him and not his fish since what I feared most was him getting a +4 cover ride check if it was paper and pencil. I dont think it will matter because I got a lot of -2s on his damages and you rolled a 1! on my 2nd energy retort power [what did I say about using tanked dice!] so I wouldn't bother unless you have nothing else better to do...your adaptation was certainly reasonable.
Kaigan 06-02-05, 08:56 PM	All Tactics sent in. Coralias to Pittbull via PM. Eiletha to Xanadu via PM. Aeiou to Sindorin via PM. Rayos to Caterane via PM and email. Received tactics from Caterane for Uhm. Awaiting tactics from Huan for Rook. @Cat: I have my Idea for the campaign, a fairly good idea that will involve many things rather than just pure combat. Maps, I'm still thinking about them, as well as the main characters that will be involved. I.E. main bad guys, bosses, etc. A lot of it will be random rolled, so that should be interesting. I can start announcing it and looking for players next week. I'll write the introduction this weekend and can post it by monday or tuesday. If you would like any details of my Idea, I can PM them.
Zerone 06-02-05, 10:05 PM	Tactics Sent: Saya to Cerebus Rin to Malither Tactics Received: Barak (Salrantol) Heindal (SoulLord) Brilf Zephyr (Sunwolf) Tactics Not Received: Griff Mythral (Iced) *•. Z
Huan 06-02-05, 10:18 PM	To my pitlords, my tactics will be sent tomorrow. @Caterane Tactics received, thank you. In other news: The cast is off! Wow, you never know how much you use your main arm until you lose function of it. :rolleyes: (If case any of you wondered why I all of a sudden I stopped writing stories recently... its because I broke my arm, NOT because I did not want to write anymore. I still have the quill! Expect me to resume writing this week .... AND... My summer project: Go back and write stories for ALL the fights I pitlorded and missed during my injury... lord help me, but I had many ideas for all of them... I plan to release them all at once like some sort of Anthology) ...So, like always, don't be shy with the RP with me in your tactics! :)
Sunwolf 06-02-05, 10:36 PM	@pittbull Tactics for Telveran sent by PM @zerone Tactics for Brilf sent by PM
Zerone 06-02-05, 10:53 PM	@zerone Tactics for Brilf sent by PM Received :)
Cerebus13 06-02-05, 11:40 PM	@All Important and slightly strange situation, the fight likely hangs on how this plays out. Player B is hidden within a Fog Cloud, far enough in so he has Full Concealment. Player A heard B doing something and thinks B is one square south of B's actual location. A cast True Strike the previous round, and is going to shoot in a straight line at humanoid level that will intersect over B's actual square. True Strike makes it so that A will ignore the miss change related to concealment, however he isn't actually shooting at B...he is shooting south of B but directly through his square. What will happen in this situation? (I already screwed up by forgetting that True Strike negates concealment, so I don't want to mess this up as well) Edit: Would a Warp Wood cast successfully on a wand make it unusable? Super Double Duper Edit: My first question is moot because I'm dumb and tired, so this situation won't come up at all. However out of curiosity I'll leave it up so people can try to answer it...because I've almost seen it happen in other fights.
cellardweller 06-03-05, 01:44 AM	Entities in squares between the source and target are not damaged by a ranged attack. A wands function is not dependent on its shape and is not required to be made out of wood in the first place.
Sindorin 06-03-05, 02:18 AM	Yay, Huan's quill is back! In other news, Tactics for both Trokk and Aeluath have both been received, thank you both. I'll get to running the fight now.
Caterane 06-03-05, 04:20 AM	@Kaigan: Yes please, send it to me (perferably by email so I can conserve it properly). Please read both the Campaign and most importantly the Campaignlording FAQ. Same for everyone involved in your Campaign. A Campaign is much more dependent on the proper execution of all participants than anything else here. Also tell me when you want to start with the Campaign. You should probably go ahead and recruit players. EDIT: Eiletha lost and gained 400 XP and gold, and loses 600 each from last week for a net 'income' of -200 XP and -200 gold. @Huan: :eek:
Cerebus13 06-03-05, 09:07 AM	Talari vs Mataichi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6348165&postcount=1598) is up. I made another nice mess of the rolls for this fight as I had to redo the fight several times :embarrass:. First I forgot that True Strike negates concealment, then I messed up on positioning of people, and so on... The fight ended when Mataichi got lucky and ran into Talari right away, however with Talari's tactic of delaying for 10 rounds (and my learning that you can't hit a person if you shoot THROUGH their square) Mataichi would have had plenty of time to find her and hit her with his powered up first shot. Anyways please read it over (especially the comments at the bottom) and let me know if there are any problems. I am out of town again this weekend so I'll be running my other fight for the week on Sunday/Monday evening, so get any comments to me by then.
Meek Head 06-03-05, 09:21 AM	Mugen's tactics sent. There was a character sheet error on Zar (my opponent) - too much money spent. A comp. longbow (+1 Str) is 200 gp, not 100 gp, and puts him just over 3000 gp (around 60 gp). What happens?
Zerone 06-03-05, 09:23 AM	[url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6348165&postcount=1598]I am out of town again this weekend so I'll be running my other fight for the week on Sunday/Monday evening, so get any comments to me by then. Just want to make sure you received my tactics??? :D Thanks, *•. Z
Cerebus13 06-03-05, 09:26 AM	Just want to make sure you received my tactics??? :D Thanks, *•. ZOh, yeah, I got em...just forgot to post about it last night.
Sunwolf 06-03-05, 09:52 AM	Mugen's tactics sent. There was a character sheet error on Zar (my opponent) - too much money spent. A comp. longbow (+1 Str) is 200 gp, not 100 gp, and puts him just over 3000 gp (around 60 gp). What happens? Point this out directly to your pitlord. If the bow gets used he may just count it as a standard comp longbow. I usually note stuff like this in my tactics, incase the pitlord didn't notice it himself.
Salzorin 06-03-05, 09:58 AM	Be sure to post it in the character violations thread as well.
Pittbull 06-03-05, 10:11 AM	Fight Brogan vs Coralias (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6348441&postcount=1599) is posted!
Jindl 06-03-05, 10:54 AM	Fight Brogan vs Coralias (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6348441&postcount=1599) is posted! @Pittbull- Um, ghoul touch is a touch spell, meaning that Brogan can hold the charge indefinately. The duration is how long the touched subject remains under the effects. This would definately affect the fight (it means that Brogan wouldn't dismiss his levitate, more likely that Cora would have to move to attack him, which may give him a readied attack with that spectral hand, which if Cora fails the fort save she's paralyzed). This seems to be a first save failed loses kind of fight, so please take a look. -Jindl
Pittbull 06-03-05, 11:11 AM	@Jindl: Srd says: Imbuing you with negative energy, this spell allows you to paralyze a single living humanoid for the duration of the spell with a successful melee touch attack. My bad English strikes back again!!! I'll change the fight. EDIT: Fight is fixed!
Sindorin 06-03-05, 11:14 AM	Couldn't someone theoretically hold several different spell charges for a melee touch (i.e. Shocking Grasp, Ghoul Touch, etc) for delivery at the same time? Or would only one spell be delivered at a time?
Jindl 06-03-05, 11:18 AM	Couldn't someone theoretically hold several different spell charges for a melee touch (i.e. Shocking Grasp, Ghoul Touch, etc) for delivery at the same time? Or would only one spell be delivered at a time? Casting a spell negates any touch spell effect you are currently holding, which means you can't hold more than 1 at a time. (Druids have a nice way around this using produce flame because it has a range of "0" not "touch".)
Sindorin 06-03-05, 12:36 PM	Silly druids. On another note, Trokk the Eviscerator vs. Aeluath Dryearraheal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6349435&postcount=1600) is up. Power Attack + Spirit Charge is nasty. Too bad Ceres' Base Attack Bonus isn't very high... yet.
SoulLord 06-03-05, 01:31 PM	Quick question in the above fight I assume the invisible flying character charged from above up to his reach above his target and that he ended if not next to his opponent at least 5 feet away from him (probably above) now a charge You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent So it's not clear to me if Aeluath fulfilled the conditions for a charge... the damage still would have been very respectable 36 but not enough to explode his foe.
Sindorin 06-03-05, 02:07 PM	Aeluath's readied move put him 60 feet away from Trokk. That easily fulfills the 10 foot requirement.
Sindorin 06-03-05, 02:18 PM	I do realize that I forgot Aeluath's End of Round notation after the readied move (even though the new location is stated right there), so I have edited for clarity's sake. It should make more sense now.
Malither76 06-03-05, 03:26 PM	@Sindorin, but with new info that came to light this past week, Trokk would have done double damage if he moved at least 30 feet on his charge and decended at least 10' which he did, and since the chain is a slashing weapon under rules of the game his attack would have done double damage right?, just looked back at the fight, this would not have made a difference just done more damage, although why did Trokk not trip on this attack like he always does
Megrim_Lord 06-03-05, 03:27 PM	Sindorin there is no way he could have hit me, he needs 15ft reach, as my tactics directly stated even with the charge to stay 15ft off the ground
Malither76 06-03-05, 03:29 PM	you guys have the same reach with your weapons, if you can hit him he can hit you
Sindorin 06-03-05, 03:35 PM	@Sindorin, but with new info that came to light this past week, Trokk would have done double damage if he moved at least 30 feet on his charge and decended at least 10' which he did, and since the chain is a slashing weapon under rules of the game his attack would have done double damage right?, just looked back at the fight, this would not have made a difference just done more damage, although why did Trokk not trip on this attack like he always does Where does it say that it would deal double damage? I've never heard of this... The reason I did not use the trip was because Megrim_Lord did not point to it in his tactics. It's probably one of those things that happens whether you state in your tactics or not... I'll take a look at that part. Sindorin there is no way he could have hit me, he needs 15ft reach, as my tactics directly stated even with the charge to stay 15ft off the ground He has a reach weapon just like you. Please explain how you would ever be able to hit him without him being able to hit you?
Malither76 06-03-05, 03:47 PM	In rules of the game all about movement, any creature that is flying that moves 30' and decendes 10' on a charch does double damage with a piercing or slashing weapon, or a claw attack, they found this out when examing Cat's overpower quest Griffon as I believe it was called. ;) right Cat, but yeah that doesn't make a difference in the fight, I'm just surprised he didn't say to trip, that just one of the things he always does but oh well. But yeah Flying is really powerfull now, you should see my ECL 10 build for my real game, a frenzied beserker from complete warrior with leadership that has his own bard that follows him around, wow is it fun, he has an AC of 5 though when fighting good thing he kills most things on the second round of combat :)
Megrim_Lord 06-03-05, 04:00 PM	Where does it say that it would deal double damage? I've never heard of this... The reason I did not use the trip was because Megrim_Lord did not point to it in his tactics. It's probably one of those things that happens whether you state in your tactics or not... I'll take a look at that part. He has a reach weapon just like you. Please explain how you would ever be able to hit him without him being able to hit you? point taken, but the trip should be automatic, even if it isn't all of my prior tactics and even default tactics point to it's implied use
Sindorin 06-03-05, 04:02 PM	I think this comes from my lack of experience regarding flying objects (and orcs). I hadn't read up on the rules for charging in flight. I have edited the fight, but it is being really slow for some reason (the boards are just being dumb). I allowed the trip attempt (since it is a free action granted from the Knockdown feat), the melee touch succeeded (which I think they need to change because Trokk shouldn't have to touch Aeluath again after he already hit him with the spiked chain), but sometimes trying to take a build that is designed to be in a saddle out of the saddle is rather difficult, as Aeluath was allowed to use a Ride check in place of the strength check, and Trokk's trip attempt fails. The rest of the fight continued as was.
Malither76 06-03-05, 04:20 PM	yeah I didn't think it would make much of a difference but that should make all parties happy
Jindl 06-03-05, 10:24 PM	@cellar - I'm afraid the Elder's tactics will be a bit delayed. I'll try to get them to you as soon as I can. Sorry. -Jindl
Iced 06-04-05, 12:10 AM	Both The Watcher and Griff Mythal's tactics sent to their respective pitlords via PM.
Huan 06-04-05, 12:14 AM	Hmm... Nell and Rook's tactics will have to sent early tomorrow morning, sorry. Apologies to my pitlords, and thanks for their patience.
Malither76 06-04-05, 12:47 AM	@ all my gladiators, all tactics are in and fights will be ran either tomorrow or sunday.
Huan 06-04-05, 10:20 AM	@Kerlan Rayne Tactics for Zubair recieved. @Jindl,Kaigan My appropriate tactics have been PMed. Thanks again for being patient.
Jindl 06-05-05, 01:52 AM	BTW: The Elder's tactics have been sent, and Nells/Janelle's have been received.
Zerone 06-05-05, 06:57 PM	Barak Brigandslayer vs. Heindal the big (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6367327&postcount=1602) is up. Heindal's HPs are incorrect as noted on character sheet. Please fix this before the next fight :) *•. Z
SoulLord 06-05-05, 11:13 PM	On the Hp's thing well thats what i get for listening to people as to what my hp total should be... On other Note..... I see you made Heindal cast his scroll of blur which was part of the strategy but then you never made him hide using the cover granted by the blurr as specified..... If it had been Barak would not have an automatic free spot attempt on him.... Unless see invisibility also negates the concealment granted by blur which it does not. from the srd See Invisibility Divination Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 10 min./level (D) You can see any objects or beings that are invisible within your range of vision, as well as any that are ethereal, as if they were normally visible. Such creatures are visible to you as translucent shapes, allowing you easily to discern the difference between visible, invisible, and ethereal creatures. The spell does not reveal the method used to obtain invisibility. It does not reveal illusions or enable you to see through opaque objects. It does not reveal creatures who are simply hiding, concealed, or otherwise hard to see. See invisibility can be made permanent with a permanency spell. Material Component: A pinch of talc and a small sprinkling of powdered silver. ...... at least I could cast this time.
Malither76 06-06-05, 02:07 AM	Greevus v.s The Watcher is up
Zerone 06-06-05, 09:02 AM	@ Everyone: On the Hp's thing well thats what i get for listening to people as to what my hp total should be... On other Note..... I see you made Heindal cast his scroll of blur which was part of the strategy but then you never made him hide using the cover granted by the blurr as specified..... If it had been Barak would not have an automatic free spot attempt on him.... Unless see invisibility also negates the concealment granted by blur which it does not. from the srd ...... at least I could cast this time. Hmmm... I'm not sure that you can attempt to hide in plain sight behind a Blur spell. There is nothing blocking LoS, which is why he was able to cast Sleep on you. Can anyone help us out here? *•. Z
michael_noah 06-06-05, 09:10 AM	In order to hide, all you need is concealment, which blur grants. It seems pretty clear, er, blurry.
Pittbull 06-06-05, 10:02 AM	Fight Telveran vs. RakkaR (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6371789&postcount=1605) is posted.
Cerebus13 06-06-05, 10:37 AM	@ Everyone: Hmmm... I'm not sure that you can attempt to hide in plain sight behind a Blur spell. There is nothing blocking LoS, which is why he was able to cast Sleep on you. Can anyone help us out here? *•. ZYou need cover or concealment to hide, so as long as you have not been spotted yet you can use Blur to hide yourself. However, if you ARE spotted you need to either distract your opponent (with Bluff or whatever) or gain total cover/concealment somehow to hide again. This is due to the rule: "If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide." in the hide skill description.
Malither76 06-06-05, 01:57 PM	Pittbull, taking a knee is a free action just like droping prone
Cerebus13 06-06-05, 02:37 PM	Xyanthraxia vs Saya (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6373999&postcount=1606) is up. Please proofread and send any comments my way.
SoulLord 06-06-05, 04:42 PM	@ Everyone: Hmmm... I'm not sure that you can attempt to hide in plain sight behind a Blur spell. There is nothing blocking LoS, which is why he was able to cast Sleep on you. Can anyone help us out here? *•. Z Well not in plain sight as you state it, Unless it first used a bluff to hide But before he had been spotted he had plenty of time to hide under his blurr spell.
Caterane 06-06-05, 06:40 PM	Damon vs Sinoch and Lance vs Rayos is finished. Two VERY difficult fights to run. The first one featured two invisible guys who could not find the other one, and the second one: fascinate problem.
xanadu 06-06-05, 08:44 PM	Does kneeling really give you +2 AC bonus vs. ranged? Would I get +2 to hit if in melee?
Cerebus13 06-06-05, 09:02 PM	Check this table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#favorableandUnfavora bleConditions). +2 ranged AC if kneeling, but -2 melee AC.
Kaigan 06-06-05, 09:13 PM	@Cat: Just a few "minor" problems. 1) I'm just completely confused with fascinate. The srd says he must see me and I must be able to see and hear him. I'm hiding. HIDING. I can't see him, he can't see me. No way to fascinate. 2) I get a saving throw vs. Suggestion. 3) Even if I give up my arrows, I still have a scimitar, and a shortspear. Melee maybe????? But the first concern is the main one. Please look into it. I think this fight was fought unfairly. Kaigan Edit: Found some other things: Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). So he would not be able to cast call lightening without disrutping the suggestion. These things for sure effect the outcome.
Malither76 06-06-05, 11:45 PM	Enoch vs Rin is up, they both brought allies so do they earn the usuall 900/300 this I am not sure about plz let me know.
Huan 06-06-05, 11:52 PM	Bare-bones of Indri vs Zubair (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6378884) is up. Short version: One almost won in the first hit... then the other won in two...
Zerone 06-06-05, 11:59 PM	Round #14 Z: S gains cover from her horse as Z tries to touch her and succeeds, zapping Z. This activity is too much for Z however and it falls to the ground, dying. [S ride: 6+14 vs 15 DC success gain cover] [Z atk: 18+7 vs 11+4 touch AC hit; Damage: 9; Damage to self: 7] X: Quickly takes advantage of the opportunity to cast and zaps a Scorching Ray at S. [X atk: 5+7 vs 10 touch (no dex) AC hit; Damage: 13] S: With X visible she presses the attack, but misses horribly. She has the horse move in 5' and attack. [S atk: 1] M: Full attacks but misses a lot. [M atk image (1 is X, rest are fake): 3, 1, 5] [M atk: 5+4, 17+4, 13-1 vs 14 AC or 22 AC miss miss miss] [Z stablize: 23 vs 91 fails; Damage: 1] X: 18/18; (16,-14); Cat's Grace ends #32, Expeditous Retreat ends #33, Mage Armor ends #606, Mirror Image ends #39, Shield ends #31; +4 dex, +30' movement, +4 armor, 5 images, +4 shield AC Z: -8/9; (18,-12); Shield ends #27; +4 shield AC S: 2/24; (18,-13); Saya should still have cover from Moto, as it lasts for the entire round, so Xyan would have missed. [X atk: 5+7 vs 15 touch (+1 Dex, +4 Cover) AC miss] *•. Z
Zerone 06-07-05, 12:14 AM	Enoch vs Rin is up, they both brought allies so do they earn the usuall 900/300 this I am not sure about plz let me know. cast True Strike when he is visible... Round 1 E: cast resist energy (acid) from scroll and rides out looking for opponent R: Cast true strike and rides out, ??? I shouldn't be casting till I see my opponent... :confused: Round 2 E: saw his opponent ride out of the west box so he follows and cast hold person, will save 7+5=12 vs 15 fail R: Is held fast and gets another save... E: (-10,=9) 23/23, resist energy (30min) R: (-10, -29) 18/18, true strike ( next attack), Held (4) Round 3 E: charges his opponent, knowing he needs a full round to CDG he drawa and swings his morning star as part of the charge, attack 15+2+2=19 success damage is 1d8=5 R: is still held and gets another save..., and his horse has not been told what to do and you have no tricks listed so it just waits It's a Warhorse... it Defends by default... So Full Attack E: (-10,=28) 23/23, resist energy (30min) R: (-10, -29) 13/18, true strike ( next attack), Held (4) Round 4 E: performs CDG and suffers AoO from Warhorse, damage is 2d8=8, fort save 3+5=8, fail and R: sees the morning star coming at his head but can do nothing about it, dies with his head getting crushed. The red text is added by me and is what is needed to be fixed. *•. Z
Cerebus13 06-07-05, 12:18 AM	Get Cover from Your Mount: Because you and your mount share a space on the battlefield, you normally cannot claim cover from your mount. Whenever someone attacks you, however, you can attempt a DC 15 Ride check to claim cover from your mount. If you succeed, you get the benefit of cover (+4 to AC). According to the D&D FAQ, the cover benefit applies to all attacks made against you during the same place in the initiative order. If foes attack you several different times during a round, you must make a new Ride check to get cover from your mount against those attacks. You cannot claim cover while you're casting a spell or making any kind of attack. Using your mount for cover isn't an action, and you can do so anytime you're attacked (subject to the limits noted previously). The rules don't say so, but using your mount for cover represents you actively avoiding attacks, and it's reasonable to assume that you cannot do so when you are denied your Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class.From this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a) RotG article it is pointed out that it is reasonable to assume that you cannot gain cover from your mount if you are denied your Dex bonus to AC. Xyan was still Invisible before attacking and thus denied Saya her Dex bonus to AC. This situation may not have occured yet within the CoCo but I have ruled it this way in previous battles. Anyone else have input on this subject?
Zerone 06-07-05, 12:20 AM	Round 1 E: cast resist energy (acid) from scroll and rides out looking for opponent This scroll was not determined as to which resistance would be granted, and since the spell is triggered when it is scribed, it would have to have an element already choosen, and since it does not...
Zerone 06-07-05, 12:23 AM	From this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a) RotG article it is pointed out that it is reasonable to assume that you cannot gain cover from your mount if you are denied your Dex bonus to AC. Xyan was still Invisible before attacking and thus denied Saya her Dex bonus to AC. This situation may not have occured yet within the CoCo but I have ruled it this way in previous battles. Anyone else have input on this subject? So I bob down beside my horse and then bob back up? I have already received the bonus for the round, a different attacker still has to target me while I'm behind my horse... Even if I do not get Dex, he still misses... 12 vs. AC 14, Miss...
cellardweller 06-07-05, 12:34 AM	This is bardic fascination/suggestion as I read it. Step 1 Fascinate The bard attempts to fascinate. The target must make a will save at a DC of the performance check. If there is nearby combat or overt threats present the attempt fails. This condition is based on what is actually present, not on events that may have happened "recently". Step 2 Suggestion The bard attempts to make a suggestion.The target must make a will save at DC 10+chr+brd/2 or be affected as per the suggestion spell (which has a duration of 1hr/level). They are still fascinated so they can't begin to carry out the activity yet. Step 3 The bard stops singing to end the fascination and the target (if they failed the save) can now carry out the activity and continue to do so until either the task is complete or the duration expires. Relevant passages from the SRD on which this is based with the important bits bolded: Fascinate (Sp): A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated with him. Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90 feet, able to see and hear the bard, and able to pay attention to him. The bard must also be able to see the creature. The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working. For every three levels a bard attains beyond 1st, he can target one additional creature with a single use of this ability. To use the ability, a bard makes a Perform check. His check result is the DC for each affected creature’s Will save against the effect. If a creature’s saving throw succeeds, the bard cannot attempt to fascinate that creature again for 24 hours. If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and listens to the song, taking no other actions, for as long as the bard continues to play and concentrate (up to a maximum of 1 round per bard level). While fascinated, a target takes a –4 penalty on skill checks made as reactions, such as Listen and Spot checks. Any potential threat requires the bard to make another Perform check and allows the creature a new saving throw against a DC equal to the new Perform check result. Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect. Fascinate is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability. Suggestion (Sp): A bard of 6th level or higher with 9 or more ranks in a Perform skill can make a suggestion (as the spell) to a creature that he has already fascinated (see above). Using this ability does not break the bard’s concentration on the fascinate effect, nor does it allow a second saving throw against the fascinate effect. Making a suggestion doesn’t count against a bard’s daily limit on bardic music performances. A Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 bard’s level + bard’s Cha modifier) negates the effect. This ability affects only a single creature (but see mass suggestion, below). Suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language dependent ability. Suggestion Enchantment (Compulsion) [Language-Dependent, Mind-Affecting] Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One living creature Duration: 1 hour/level or until completed Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes You influence the actions of the target creature by suggesting a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two). The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable. Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell. The suggested course of activity can continue for the entire duration. If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the spell ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do. You can instead specify conditions that will trigger a special activity during the duration. If the condition is not met before the spell duration expires, the activity is not performed. A very reasonable suggestion causes the save to be made with a penalty (such as –1 or –2). Material Component: A snake’s tongue and either a bit of honeycomb or a drop of sweet oil.
Salrantol 06-07-05, 12:36 AM	Round 1 E: cast resist energy (acid) from scroll and rides out looking for opponent This scroll was not determined as to which resistance would be granted, and since the spell is triggered when it is scribed, it would have to have an element already choosen, and since it does not... If it were a potion, that would be the case, but casting a spell from a scroll is identical to casting it from memory. And if you look at the scroll list in the SRD or DMG, you will note that it does not specify energy type, but under potions, it does. Determine Effect: A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. The character taking the potion doesn’t get to make any decisions about the effect —the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. You'll note that the above line from the potions section is lacking in the Scrolls section.
Kaigan 06-07-05, 01:05 AM	@Cat and Cellardweller: Lance still needs to spot me, and I'm hidden. So in order for fascinate to work, you need to spot me. Then I get a save vs. suggestion. The save was done incorrectly. I am an elf, and get +2 to my saves vs. enchantment. So I would have failed my fascinate save, but then next save, for suggestion, I might pass. In the end, I would have passed my suggestion vs. giving my quiver over. I rolled 11, +4 save +2 racial = 17. His suggestion DC is 10 +cha +1/2 level: 10+4cha+7/2=17 rounded down, or 18 rounded up, so I may have passed it. @Celler: You forgot to highlight an important text part: Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90 feet, able to see and hear the bard, and able to pay attention to him. The bard must also be able to see the creature. I'm hidden, you need a spot check. So at the most, you would either try fascinate in which case my wolf would be fascinated, and I wouldn't as I cannot see you and you cannot see me. I will no matter what, get to snipe at you. In which you may see me, or not, but I will hit you Maybe hitting you or your images. Your fascinate on my wolf will break, and it will attack you. And you've used your one of your bardic music abilities. You can use it 3 times a day. 7/3 = 2 and change, so 3 times a day. So the first couple rounds will be you looking for me, while I snipe you and my wolf harasses you, which it does, and pulls you off the horse. Only when you see me, and I see you does your fascinate ability actually work. That is the main point. Now as to suggestion: your first suggestion was to kill Methyr, so if you manage to fascinate me, then I fail my suggestion, then I eventually do kill Methyr, as he attacks you. Once that is done, the suggestion is over, and you then suggest for me to hand you my quiver. I do and when that is done, that suggestion is over. Then fascinate breaks and you continue with your tactics of using call lightening and arrows. However... I still have my scimitar and shortspear and am able to melee you. I have a high reflex so I will pass my saves each time and take only half damage, and I who knows, maybe I will kill you. But the way that Cat has ended the fight as it is is not fair. And the beggining is wrong as you need to see me to fascinate and I am clearly hidden so it is not possible.
cellardweller 06-07-05, 01:49 AM	Kaigan, I was adressing the question related bardic music in general that Cat made at the end of the battles. I'll leave the specifics of the fight to Cat who is more familiar with them.
Zerone 06-07-05, 02:11 AM	If it were a potion, that would be the case, but casting a spell from a scroll is identical to casting it from memory. And if you look at the scroll list in the SRD or DMG, you will note that it does not specify energy type, but under potions, it does. You'll note that the above line from the potions section is lacking in the Scrolls section. Creating Scrolls as per the DMG: The act of writing triggers the prepared spell. Part of the spell being triggered is picking an elemental type. Since it's already been triggered, how can you change it?
Malither76 06-07-05, 02:29 AM	Enoch vs Rin fixes made no change, the true stike didn't matter if it was cast before or after you moved that turn you spoted him, and it stores until your next attack anyways so there is no reason not to cast it early, as for his resist energy scroll I don't know if its predetermined or not, it didn't come inot play either way but this should be decided before this comes up again
KerlanRayne 06-07-05, 05:43 AM	Bare-bones of Indri vs Zubair (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6378884) is up. Short version: One almost won in the first hit... then the other won in two...I was just wondering, can he even ride that Dire Bat? He doesn't have an Exotix Saddle for it, which is -5 to Ride checks. Also, it's not even trained for riding much less battle. Does he need to make Handle Animal checks to "Push" it to do tricks? What about the Control Mount in Battle with a DC 20 ride check? It's looking doubtful, so he may have to stick with his Warhorse. KerlanRayne
Cerebus13 06-07-05, 07:23 AM	So I bob down beside my horse and then bob back up? I have already received the bonus for the round, a different attacker still has to target me while I'm behind my horse... Even if I do not get Dex, he still misses... 12 vs. AC 14, Miss...Can an Elder provide some input on this? If you take cover from a mount against one attack, and then on the same initiative count are attacked by an invisible person do you still have cover from the mount? Edit: Ahem, sorry....I figured out what I hadn't even considered this situation. In Round #13 Xyan delayed to allow Zia to go first since they were normally going on the same initiative count. I didn't illustrate this by indicating what her new initiative count was (I should have) but it would have changed from 11 to 10 to allow Zia to go first on initiative count 11. A few questions still remain however: 1) If someone attacks you and denies your Dex bonus to AC, can you take cover from your mount? (the RotG article on mounts indicates that is likely you do not) 2) If you take cover from a mount against one attack, and then on the same initiative count are attacked by an invisible person do you still have cover from the mount?
Salrantol 06-07-05, 08:05 AM	@Zerone: Except that the next sentence clarifies what that statement means. (emphasis added) The act of writing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.) And note the difference between the following two entries, again, emphasis added: 76–78 resist energy 150 gp 94–96 45–46 — Resist energy (type) 10 (potion) 300 gp @Malither76: She shouldn't have expended her true strike scroll. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus.
Huan 06-07-05, 08:19 AM	I was just wondering, can he even ride that Dire Bat? He doesn't have an Exotix Saddle for it, which is -5 to Ride checks. Also, it's not even trained for riding much less battle. Does he need to make Handle Animal checks to "Push" it to do tricks? What about the Control Mount in Battle with a DC 20 ride check? It's looking doubtful, so he may have to stick with his Warhorse. KerlanRayne Can he ride it? Yes, it is large and strong enough (as per the definition of a mount). It's only a question of how well one can ride it and if one can handle riding it... but can he ride it into combat? Hmm... that is a point I have not considered, good catch. A simple solution would have been to train the animal for combat, but Indri does not have a high enough Ride skill to do that right now. The Bat did not perform any other actions but moving, so there were no tricks to worry about (not to mention it knows none). To resolve this matter, I rolled (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=&u=Indri_vs_Zubair&limit=on) a DC 20 ride check for Indri to Ride the bat into battle (Succeed). EDIT: Invisible Castle is lame and won't link. The name of the fight is Indri_vs_Zubair.
Salrantol 06-07-05, 08:24 AM	To resolve this matter, I rolled (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=&u=Indri_vs_Zubair&limit=on) a DC 20 ride check for Indri to Ride the bat into battle (Succeed). That check would need to be rolled every round he rode it in combat. Control Mount in Battle: As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do not need to roll for warhorses or warponies. But with +11 to Handle Animal, he does have sufficient skill to train the dire bat for Combat Riding (DC 20). His character sheet does not indicate that he did, but if he can provide evidence that he did so, then the rolls will not be necessary.
Cerebus13 06-07-05, 08:26 AM	Can he ride it? Yes, it is large and strong enough (as per the definition of a mount). It's only a question of how well one can ride it and if one can handle riding it... but can he ride it into combat? Hmm... that is a point I have not considered, good catch. A simple solution would have been to train the animal for combat, but Indri does not have a high enough Ride skill to do that right now. The Bat did not perform any other actions but moving, so there were no tricks to worry about (not to mention it knows none). To resolve this matter, I rolled (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=&u=Indri_vs_Zubair&limit=on) a DC 20 ride check for Indri to Ride the bat into battle (Succeed).Actually this isn't quite true...which caused me to drop a druid I was playing. In the DMG 3.5 there is a table called "Mount (Small Rider)" which lists the Dire Bat. It seems really stupid (with the description of the beastie saying that it is as large as a horse) but I'm not sure if there is any errata changing it.
Huan 06-07-05, 08:36 AM	That check would need to be rolled every round he rode it in combat. But with +11 to Handle Animal, he does have sufficient skill to train the dire bat for Combat Riding (DC 20). His character sheet does not indicate that he did, but if he can provide evidence that he did so, then the rolls will not be necessary. +13, but yeah, for some reason I applied the -5 before. Don't know what I was thinking. :P Yeah, you're right. But, another mistake I found. The Obscuring Mist cleared by Round 11, so Zubair would have had a few more shots in before Indri came in. Redoing... @Cerebus Which part is not true?
Cerebus13 06-07-05, 08:50 AM	+13, but yeah, for some reason I applied the -5 before. Don't know what I was thinking. :P Yeah, you're right. But, another mistake I found. The Obscuring Mist cleared by Round 11, so Zubair would have had a few more shots in before Indri came in. Redoing... @Cerebus Which part is not true?Medium or larger characters cannot ride Dire Bats :P. I don't want to go into too much detail since this is taken from the DMG, but if you have a copy it is on page 205 or so. The table lists a few animals that make sense (like dogs and ponies), and then....the Dire Bat. Additionally...the description of the Dire Bat in the SRD is: "A dire bat has a wingspan of 15 feet and weighs about 200 pounds." A creature only weighing 200 pounds is likely going to have quite a bit of trouble lifting a Medium character who could weigh anywher from 100 to over 200 pounds themself.
Jindl 06-07-05, 09:27 AM	@cellar - You've got some errors in the Elder vs Ixenthor. Please review: 1. Ixenthor can't ride his dire bat. Aside from some of the reasons stated above (in the Indri fight discussion), with his gear, Ixenthor weighs a whopping 299 lbs, and the dire bat's max light load is only 200 lbs. This has several effects on the fight, basically slowing the rate at which all of the Elder's opponent's can reach him. And since the griffon can't get as close to him in the first round, it won't be able to easily move in his direction via scent (see problem #2). 2. Scent has a range of 30 ft. As the fight stands now, there are 2 occasions where the Elder should have been move than 30 ft away from the griffon, yet the griffon still somehow detected him by scent. In Rnd 1, the Elder should have moved to be farther than 30 ft from the griffon, and in Rnd 4 the flying Elder should easily be more than 30 ft from the griffon. Ixenthor's attacks are based upon the griffon locating the invisible Elder, and this simply would not happen the way you have it. 3. To get an animal that does not have improved grab to attempt a grapple, you have to pass a HA check to push it. The DC is 25 (not 20), so Ixenthor fails in Rnd 3. It is also a full round action, which means Ixenthor does not move closer to the Elder that round (which again delays his later attack substantially). Considering these errors, it is highly likely that the Elder will be able to escape detection and the grapple while he implements his tactics. Please review with these changes in mind. -Jindl
Zerone 06-07-05, 10:00 AM	@ Cerebus13: Can an Elder provide some input on this? If you take cover from a mount against one attack, and then on the same initiative count are attacked by an invisible person do you still have cover from the mount? Edit: Ahem, sorry....I figured out what I hadn't even considered this situation. In Round #13 Xyan delayed to allow Zia to go first since they were normally going on the same initiative count. I didn't illustrate this by indicating what her new initiative count was (I should have) but it would have changed from 11 to 10 to allow Zia to go first on initiative count 11. A few questions still remain however: 1) If someone attacks you and denies your Dex bonus to AC, can you take cover from your mount? (the RotG article on mounts indicates that is likely you do not) 2) If you take cover from a mount against one attack, and then on the same initiative count are attacked by an invisible person do you still have cover from the mount? Actually, he doesn't state to delay in his tactics, just that his Familiar goes first. Therefore, they will still go on the same initiative count.
Huan 06-07-05, 10:10 AM	@Kaigan Well, at least I lost the way I expected to lose, heh heh. (gotta be optimistic about these things) Otherwise... I reran while substituting the bat for the horse to avoid the current discussion. The outcome is unchanged except that Zubair lost more arrows.
Zerone 06-07-05, 10:13 AM	I have been at work constantly over the last week and am unable to do my other fight. I am sorry for this, but could some one take the fight? I am able to post but not run a fight. Thanks to the person who runs the fight. As for my other pitlorded fight there is a change needed to be made, but again, I do not know if I'll be able to get to it without getting in trouble. Sorrry for the delay this might cause but it changes the battle completely. Here are the tactics for the fight, as it doesn't matter if they see them now or not. Just post that you are running the fight before you begin so that some one else does not also run the fight... ;) And thanks!!! :D Brilf's Tactics Zerone, Thanks for pitlording this fight. Have fun. Sunwolf This fight should be straight forward if Brilf can survive multiple sleep spells and/or color sprays . So buff a bit and go find him, use archery or melee based on distance he is trying to keep. Comments on his sheet: He needs to pay half price rather than 1/3 price for his crafted items -- spear, crossbow. Also he is small yet his items have medium damage ratings listed. He either needs to take -2 to hit with them for using the wrong size weapons or use lower damage: small halfspear (short spear) 1d4-2 small crossbow 1d8 Tactics: Please read all tactics and send me mail or PM if you have questions. Overall strategy: Don't bring in NorthWind for this fight. Notes: Use psionic weapon on first melee strike while he is visible (either with glaive or unarmed attack). Use stunning fist on first unarmed attack as above. I have the deflect arrrows feat. Brilf threatens the hexes around him even if his hands are full (ie with bow or glaive) Don't attempt to hide displays for manifesting powers, I can't afford to lose the powers if I fail the concentration check. The stunned state does not cause a monk to lose his wis bonus to AC. He doesn't have spellcraft so he can't tell what protections I have using that skill. His scrolls have DC 11 for color spray,sleep and DC 13 for web,flaming sphere. Enter with potion prot from evil in hand and stone of animal affinity in the other hand. Start near a pillar in the starting box upper east corner of box if in west starting position(translate if in a different starting spot), using pillars for cover. Win or lose init: Manifest animal affinity (+4 wis) for +2 to AC and +2 to will save. Draw stone of energy adaption, specified. Buff in this order: Manifest energy adaption specified - selecting fire. Manifest defensive precognition from personal power for +1 insight bonus to AC and saves. Manifest force screen from personal power (+4 AC). Drink potion of prot from evil. (+2ac +1 more to saves) Draw Bow. Start looking for him. Head towards central pillars or towards noise if he has been making it. If I can see him, shoot him and move closer. Try to negate his cover if he has any. Continue in a counterclockwise fashion to look for him. If I can't see him, but can pinpoint or hear him take a shot at where I think he is. Try to stay at least 60 away from him. When I am using my bow, as a free action, at the end of my turn, let go with one hand so I have a hand free for deflect arrows. If he slept me and I survive the CDG, get up and grapple him. Use stunning fist on first grapple attack in this case. After I have grappled him use flurry and opposed grapple checks to do damage(not subdual) 1d6+3 per attack to him. Grapple him to death. Interrupts: If he found me before I get all my buffs up, move to break line of sight and continue to put up buffs. Move force screen to last, because I want to have the best saves possible incase he tries a sleep or color spray. If potion of prot from evil wears off use potion prot from law. If he has cast web on me, if I made my save just move out if I can the first round. If I failed save or am still in web after first round, draw tinderstick and torch, light torch with tinderstick and burn my way out. Stow bow if I am holding it since I will need it. Use a powerstone of vigor ML2 if I fall below 17hp, again avoid AOOs. Try to get behind cover and break LOS if possible while healing. If entangled with tanglefoot bag, draw kama and flurry to cut it off. Please don't use resources not mentioned above. Use DC 20 Autohypnosis check to stabilize if ever drop below 0 hp If at 0 hp use DC 20 Autohypnosis check to not lose hp for a strenuous action. (if I fail check don't do stenuous action and try again next round) Griff's tactics Griff Mythal vs Briff Zephyr Buffing order: 1) cast invisibility from scroll, move away from central obstacle 2) cast expeditious retreat from scroll and continue to move away 3) cast mirror image from scroll 4) cast shield from scroll 5) cast mage armor from scroll Buffs 1-3 are my main priority. After the first three are up then if I see Briff cast sleep from my spell list. If it works buff all the way up to my fifth buff then CDG him. If not try again. If it doesn’t work a second time then cast web. If he manages to escape web then also re-cast that using my highest DC scrolls first. Then proceed as far away as I can (up to 140’) and cast flaming sphere on him. Note that flaming sphere does 2d6 damage per round that it’s in the same square as my opponent and also that if flaming sphere is moved into a square containing web that it burns that 5’ space and deals 2d4 extra fire damage to those within that space. When he is nearing the edge of the webs(flaming sphere can’t reach him next turn) re-cast web on his new location and continue with the spheres. If I run out of spheres go ahead and use whatever you think most appropriate. ~If I ever get the opportunity to coup de grace him(like when he’s sleeping) go ahead and CDG him with Heavy X-bow if all of my buffs are up. ~If he ever manages to get within 35’ then blast away with color spray and then retreat. ~Generally stay out of charge lines if possible ~If he gets me into melee, then cast defensively as opposed to taking attacks of opportunity(though he’ll probably want to grapple me) ~Stay OUT of melee ~If he brings the horse then cast web as usual and then target spell effects at him. ~If a special situation arises use your best judgement Thanks for running the fight!
Jindl 06-07-05, 10:17 AM	Creating Scrolls as per the DMG: The act of writing triggers the prepared spell. Part of the spell being triggered is picking an elemental type. Since it's already been triggered, how can you change it? @Zerone - A scrolls effects are determined by the user, not the crafter. A potions effects are determined by the crafter. That's how its always been handled in the CoCo, since this discussion was first brought up 2 years ago. I remember that we found some rules backing up this interpretation, but I don't remember where (and I don't plant to go back through 5000 posts looking for it). If anybody remembers where the supporting rules were located, please let us know! -Jindl
Cerebus13 06-07-05, 10:28 AM	@ Cerebus13: Actually, he doesn't state to delay in his tactics, just that his Familiar goes first. Therefore, they will still go on the same initiative count.If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first). If there is still a tie, the tied characters should roll again to determine which one of them goes before the other. Xyan and Zia have the same initiative count due to Zia being a familiar and all that. From the rule above Xyan will always be going ahead of Zia due to Xyan have an initiative modifier of +6, and Zia only a +3. So in order for Xyan to properly execute her tactic of using Scorching Ray after Zia in the same round...Xyan would have to delay to allow Zia to go first.
Pittbull 06-07-05, 10:33 AM	Griff Mythral (Iced) vs Brilf Zephyr (Sunwolf): Zerone ????? If nobody runs the fight this night, I'll take it and run tomorrow morning CET. So, no worries it'll be finished ages before the new pairing.
Iced 06-07-05, 10:40 AM	@Zerone - A scrolls effects are determined by the user, not the crafter. A potions effects are determined by the crafter. That's how its always been handled in the CoCo, since this discussion was first brought up 2 years ago. I remember that we found some rules backing up this interpretation, but I don't remember where (and I don't plant to go back through 5000 posts looking for it). If anybody remembers where the supporting rules were located, please let us know! -Jindl So that means that a scroll of protection from [alignment] would mean that it could be used as a scroll of protection from any alignment?
Cerebus13 06-07-05, 10:42 AM	So that means that a scroll of protection from [alignment] would mean that it could be used as a scroll of protection from any alignment?Each alignment protection spell has a seperate listing and is considered a seperate spell in the SRD. Spells that require a choice at casting time, like Resist Energy, are considered one spell even though it could be Resist Energy (Acid) or (Fire) etc..
cellardweller 06-07-05, 10:46 AM	@cellar - You've got some errors in the Elder vs Ixenthor. Please review: 1. Ixenthor can't ride his dire bat. Aside from some of the reasons stated above (in the Indri fight discussion), with his gear, Ixenthor weighs a whopping 299 lbs, and the dire bat's max light load is only 200 lbs. This has several effects on the fight, basically slowing the rate at which all of the Elder's opponent's can reach him. And since the griffon can't get as close to him in the first round, it won't be able to easily move in his direction via scent (see problem #2). 2. Scent has a range of 30 ft. As the fight stands now, there are 2 occasions where the Elder should have been move than 30 ft away from the griffon, yet the griffon still somehow detected him by scent. In Rnd 1, the Elder should have moved to be farther than 30 ft from the griffon, and in Rnd 4 the flying Elder should easily be more than 30 ft from the griffon. Ixenthor's attacks are based upon the griffon locating the invisible Elder, and this simply would not happen the way you have it. 3. To get an animal that does not have improved grab to attempt a grapple, you have to pass a HA check to push it. The DC is 25 (not 20), so Ixenthor fails in Rnd 3. It is also a full round action, which means Ixenthor does not move closer to the Elder that round (which again delays his later attack substantially). Considering these errors, it is highly likely that the Elder will be able to escape detection and the grapple while he implements his tactics. Please review with these changes in mind. -Jindl The errors are acknowledged (mostly due to me using my memory instead of the looking stuff up), but it is now 10:45 on tuesday night my time. The change in movement on the first round changes every event in the fight. Unless the fight is extended is unlikely (though possible - I will try) that I will have the fight altered by the time that the next set of pairings is due to happen.
Zerone 06-07-05, 10:47 AM	Xyan and Zia have the same initiative count due to Zia being a familiar and all that. From the rule above Xyan will always be going ahead of Zia due to Xyan have an initiative modifier of +6, and Zia only a +3. So in order for Xyan to properly execute her tactic of using Scorching Ray after Zia in the same round...Xyan would have to delay to allow Zia to go first. So then a mount and it's rider are on different initiative counts? No. They go on the same round - the mount moves and the character acts after. Similarly, the familiar acts before Xyan on the same initiative count. @ Pitlords: I request this fight not be closed till this is resolved, so if some one else would like to add their input, it'd be welcome. @ Pittbull: Thanks a million! As for the scroll thing... it's a tricky words game that D&D is known for :D. I'm ok with the way it is. Thanks for your input and help everyone. *•. Z
Jindl 06-07-05, 11:10 AM	The errors are acknowledged (mostly due to me using my memory instead of the looking stuff up), but it is now 10:45 on tuesday night my time. The change in movement on the first round changes every event in the fight. Unless the fight is extended is unlikely (though possible - I will try) that I will have the fight altered by the time that the next set of pairings is due to happen. Thanks for looking into it. I don't plan to have the Elder ready for the next pairings anyway (as there are some overall issues that I want to raise to the Elder council and see resolved first). Besides, the 2 quests I am involved in are already sucking up enough credits... -Jindl
Pittbull 06-07-05, 11:11 AM	Griff Mythral (Iced) vs Brilf Zephyr (Sunwolf): Pittbull OK, I start to run the fight now. Expect it to be posted tomorrow morning (CET).
Cerebus13 06-07-05, 11:16 AM	So then a mount and it's rider are on different initiative counts? No. They go on the same round - the mount moves and the character acts after. Similarly, the familiar acts before Xyan on the same initiative count.I didn't say they are on different initiative counts....they act on the SAME count, but Xyan acts first because her initiative modifier is higher. I'm probably oversimplfying by having Xyan and Zia act on the same count by default, I should have rolled initiative for both Zia and Xyan at the start because they are allies...not mount/rider. Zia init: 17+3 Rolls are listed here (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?u=XyanthraxiaVsSaya-Cerebus13). This means that Xyan will not have to delay in order to act after Zia, but they are on far different initiative counts than my oversimplfied version of having them use the same initiative score. In any event...there are two possible results in this: 1) Starting Assumption: Xyan and Zia start on the same initiative count. Result: Xyan will always act before Zia because Xyan has a higher initiative modifier. Xyan and Zia are not considered a mount/rider pair when Xyan is attempting to act after Zia, because Zia has flown into the air. Thus in order for Xyan to act AFTER Zia Xyan has to delay to a later initiative count. 2) Starting Assumption: Xyan and Zia start on different initiative counts. Result: Xyan will be acting after Zia throughout the fight, but the majority of it Zia will be doing nothing until Xyan has charged her with Shocking Grasp. With either interpretation Xyan will be going after Zia on a different initiative count. Thus Saya cannot use her mount as cover against Xyan's attack because Xyan is invisible and attacking on a different initiative count. (This leads to a slight change in the fight during Rounds #12 and #13 because Zia would do nothing in Round #12 while waiting for orders from Xyan....and would have flown to touch Saya in Round #13 after receiving orders to do so in Round #12.)
Jindl 06-07-05, 11:20 AM	@Cerebus/Zerone - Its a moot point. On any given turn, Xian can delay until after his familiar or his familiar can delay until after Xian. They can remain on the same initiative count either way. I think maybe you are making too big of a deal out of a simple issue. -Jindl
Cerebus13 06-07-05, 11:24 AM	@Cerebus/Zerone - Its a moot point. On any given turn, Xian can delay until after his familiar or his familiar can delay until after Xian. They can remain on the same initiative count either way. I think maybe you are making too big of a deal out of a simple issue. -JindlUnfortunately it's not such a moot point because there is a bit of confusion on how to handle a situation where you: 1) Take cover from your mount to avoid a normal attack 2) Are attacked on the same initiative count by someone who denies you Dex bonus to AC (and thus by the RotG article on mounts...also your ability to take cover from your mount). And by definition using the "Delay" action in combat changes your initiative count...so either Xyan or Zia using it will be making their counts different.
SoulLord 06-07-05, 12:59 PM	@Zerone. So did you decide to change the Heindal fight or did you decide it will stay as it is?
Caterane 06-07-05, 01:15 PM	1. Ixenthor can't ride his dire bat. Aside from some of the reasons stated above (in the Indri fight discussion), with his gear, Ixenthor weighs a whopping 299 lbs, and the dire bat's max light load is only 200 lbs. This has several effects on the fight, basically slowing the rate at which all of the Elder's opponent's can reach him. And since the griffon can't get as close to him in the first round, it won't be able to easily move in his direction via scent (see problem #2). The bat is medium encumbered which drops its speed to 30 but since it made a flying run forward, that doesn't matter. I will still be able to easily reach the central obstacle and somewhere on the way, I release the griffon on you. To compensate, I could even spur the mount so that the speed is the same again. 3. To get an animal that does not have improved grab to attempt a grapple, you have to pass a HA check to push it. The DC is 25 (not 20), so Ixenthor fails in Rnd 3. It is also a full round action, which means Ixenthor does not move closer to the Elder that round (which again delays his later attack substantially). Ixenthor wasn't supposed to give the grapple command at that time (rnd 2); see tactic. I explicitely wrote "give seek command". The Elder was already invisible so Ixenthor should give the "seek" command which I pass. The main purpose of the bat is to find the Elder so that Ix can grapple. The bat lost a round here which shouldn't have been lost. It should be 160ft (run) closer to the Elder. 2. Scent has a range of 30 ft. As the fight stands now, there are 2 occasions where the Elder should have been move than 30 ft away from the griffon, yet the griffon still somehow detected him by scent. In Rnd 1, the Elder should have moved to be farther than 30 ft from the griffon, and in Rnd 4 the flying Elder should easily be more than 30 ft from the griffon. Ixenthor's attacks are based upon the griffon locating the invisible Elder, and this simply would not happen the way you have it. With the mistake above, the bat is already close in round 2, and should definately be able to attack the Elder in round 3. From there on, it is impossible for the Elder to escape my allies. Ixenthor easily knows the location of the Elder. And not only the bat knows his position: Jindl wrote to move silently away (several times actually), which is half speed. 15 feet. That's not enough to escape the scent range. Götterfunken also gets a spot check in round 1. The Elder has a hide check of +1-5+20 = +16 vs Götterfunken+10 so there is definately a chance to spot the Elder, or the direction he went into. Same for later rounds. The Direbat - now close on round 2 - also gets spot and listen checks. All that might just end the fight quicker. Ixenthor's grapple succeeded, including miss chance and all and you won't get out there.
michael_noah 06-07-05, 01:28 PM	The bat is medium encumbered which drops its speed to 30 but since it made a flying run forward, that doesn't matter. Fly: A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load. Seems to me that it cannot move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load. I believe that this means that it cannot move through the air at all. The next sentence fits this interpretation. (Note that medium armor does not necessarily constitute a medium load.) They would have no need to state this if they were merely reducing the speed of the creature for having a medium load. There are two types of encumbrance. Armor, apparently, only effects the speed of a flying creature. However, a medium (or heavy) load stops its flight altogether.
Caterane 06-07-05, 01:32 PM	Ok, if Ixenthor cannot ride the bat, then he flies forward by himself and releases the griffon. He is even faster than the bat by 20ft. That also means that the bat - who is now not being ridden towards the central pillar - can move towards the Elder on round 1 even.
KerlanRayne 06-07-05, 01:56 PM	I reran while substituting the bat for the horse to avoid the current discussion. The outcome is unchanged except that Zubair lost more arrows.Except that you didn't use my tactics. They were completely different for the horse. KerlanRayne
xanadu 06-07-05, 03:09 PM	@Cerebus/Zerone - Its a moot point. On any given turn, Xian can delay until after his familiar or his familiar can delay until after Xian. They can remain on the same initiative count either way. I think maybe you are making too big of a deal out of a simple issue. -Jindl Agree. Also it says quite clear that you cannot take a ride check for cover when denied dexterity bonus. A little common sense here...how does one duck for cover when one doesn't know where to duck?
Zerone 06-07-05, 04:43 PM	Originally Posted by Jindl @Cerebus/Zerone - Its a moot point. On any given turn, Xian can delay until after his familiar or his familiar can delay until after Xian. They can remain on the same initiative count either way. I think maybe you are making too big of a deal out of a simple issue. -Jindl Agree. Also it says quite clear that you cannot take a ride check for cover when denied dexterity bonus. A little common sense here...how does one duck for cover when one doesn't know where to duck? How is this a mute point? I ducked for cover, I get it for that one whole initiative number during that round. Since you and your familiar act on the same initiative (familiar first), I should have a +4 Cover bouns during that entire Segment. And since you attacked me in that segment (the same segment that I gained Cover from your familiar's attack), you are needed to hit me while I have Cover. As you say... "a little common sense here".
Cerebus13 06-07-05, 04:48 PM	How is this a mute point? I ducked for cover, I get it for that one whole initiative number during that round. Since you and your familiar act on the same initiative (familiar first), I should have a +4 Cover bouns during that entire Segment. And since you attacked me in that segment (the same segment that I gained Cover from your familiar's attack), you are needed to hit me while I have Cover. As you say... "a little common sense here".Please read my previous post here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6381634&postcount=121) for my explanation about how it is impossible for Xyan and Zia to be acting on the same initiative count by the time Zia becomes a factor in the battle. This is just my interpretation of the fight however, an Elder's opinion on this would be appreciated.
Caterane 06-07-05, 04:48 PM	@Kaigan/Cellar: I won't have time to look into the fight today but I should have time at about 3-4 hours before pairings tomorow. So make up your mind what you would buy so that you can update quickly. There's still one question to be answered: can Lance use fascinate again after the first fascinate has been broken and the suggestion completed?
Zerone 06-07-05, 05:02 PM	I read the post before. It's not impossible. It has happened in this and many other fights, they are not fighting but working together. In a fight, I assume that people working together would not care who is first, but rather, would act accordinly to plan in order to win. They go on the same initiative count, the familiar would go first, having the higher Dex, and then Xyan - on the same Initiative count. They don't go on different Initiatives, but the same...?
Zerone 06-07-05, 05:06 PM	@Zerone. So did you decide to change the Heindal fight or did you decide it will stay as it is? Look back one page... Page 4 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6381193&postcount=111)
SoulLord 06-07-05, 05:07 PM	@ Zerone It's nearly wednesday and still i have not heard from you if you are going to rerun Heindal's fight. I would like to know before tomorrow fights to adjust accordingly
Cerebus13 06-07-05, 05:12 PM	I read the post before. It's not impossible. It has happened in this and many other fights, they are not fighting but working together. In a fight, I assume that people working together would not care who is first, but rather, would act accordinly to plan in order to win. They go on the same initiative count, the familiar would go first, having the higher Dex, and then Xyan - on the same Initiative count. They don't go on different Initiatives, but the same...?Xyan has a +6 initiative modifier due to Dex+2 Improved Initiative+4. Zia only has Dex+3. And I don't know exactly how allies are supposed to be run anymore in the CoCo, since it seems people have a lot of different ideas on it. The only rules in the SRD that I can find about allies acting together are for mounts....so I'm just going to leave this up to the Elders to sort out.
Caterane 06-07-05, 05:35 PM	Tactics: Win/Lose Initiative: Move towards central pillars and cast Divine Favor while looking for Xyanthraxia. Then look for Xyanthraxia with Readied Action: Charge with Trip Attack once found. [you cannot ready a full-round action, like a charge] Don’t forget Moto’s Scent ability if Xyanthraxia’s Invisible [Moto does not know the seek trick]. Be sure to have Moto attack whenever possible [Handle animal check Dc10 as a move action]. Once in Melee, Attack with 10’ Range (always Trip if possible) and then Moto 5’ steps in to Full Attack. If Xyanthraxia is prone Moto should be using Grappling attacks [That is a Dc25 handle animal check as a full-round action]. Once Grappled, drop Guisarme and attack with Katana. Should she Sleep one of us, the unaffected one should wake the other [Moto doesn't know such a trick]: I’ll spur the horse or she’ll be Defending, more than enough motion to wake either of us. Should we both be affected, I am falling 5’, and that should wake me [a 5ft fall does no damage, although falling from a horse does], etc… Please use the Luck Domain Re-roll ability on an important save or attack; use your judgment. Think that’s it, if you’ve any questions just PM me and again, thanks for Pitlording! *•. Z So all the scent stuff should vanish from the fight. With +3 listen and no other means of detection it is as good as impossible to pinpoint an invisible creature. Saya had to wait until Xyanthraxia becomes visible. Ini and familiar: Since the familiar and the master are basically the same creature, we use the same initiative. This has been done so from the beginning on and I've never rolled ini seperately for my real life character's familiar (remember the Professor?) but if 2 years CoCo history and most common handling of familiars isn't enough to convince us: A familiar, as being 2 size categories smaller, can basically "mount" the character so it goes on the same ini. Or it delays and goes on the same ini.
Salrantol 06-07-05, 06:23 PM	A familiar, as being 2 size categories smaller, can basically "mount" the character so it goes on the same ini. Or it delays and goes on the same ini. Just for those of us who are native speakers fluent in American slang, please use the grammatical construction of "use the character as a mount" in the future. Thank you for avoiding unpleasant imagery. As a side note, the "waking from sleep" trick would be what DC to train with Handle Animal? And would it not be reasonable to conclude that a creature with Spellcraft and an above-animal INT (i.e. a familiar) would be able to do so without a trick (if they succeed on their Spellcraft check)?
Cerebus13 06-07-05, 07:43 PM	So all the scent stuff should vanish from the fight. With +3 listen and no other means of detection it is as good as impossible to pinpoint an invisible creature. Saya had to wait until Xyanthraxia becomes visible. Ini and familiar: Since the familiar and the master are basically the same creature, we use the same initiative. This has been done so from the beginning on and I've never rolled ini seperately for my real life character's familiar (remember the Professor?) but if 2 years CoCo history and most common handling of familiars isn't enough to convince us: A familiar, as being 2 size categories smaller, can basically "mount" the character so it goes on the same ini. Or it delays and goes on the same ini.Alright, if the CoCo wants to handle familiars that way I will do this from now on. This interpretation will require a rerun from the point that Xyan shoots Scorching Ray, because Saya takes cover on her mount against Zia's Shocking Grasp which occurs on the same count as Xyan's Scorching Ray and thus Xyan will miss. I won't be able to edit the fight until later this evening however, but I'll try to finish it tonight. Just to clarify: Familiars (unless specified within tactics) go on the same initiative count as their masters.
Huan 06-07-05, 09:51 PM	Except that you didn't use my tactics. They were completely different for the horse. KerlanRayne To be perfectly honest, I question the usage of retroactive preparation (doesn't that sound like an oxymoron?). It may seem unfair, but to me, Zubair would not know if Indri brought in his horse, bat, or neither until he saw for himself in the fight (or Indri told Zubair himself), and then it is too late to decide whether to bring in his horse or not... But... I am feeling diplomatic tonight, will honor the call for a fair fight, and will rerun now (since this whole business of the Dire Bat seems to have thrown another fight into dispute...of course, the same rolls will be kept, so unless the entangle works very well, it is likely Indri will win again... but at least you will have used your planned tactics).
cellardweller 06-07-05, 09:52 PM	Re Ix vs Elder I will have about 2 hrs free tonight. This should be enough time to change the fight if it doesn't go for more than 15 rnds or so. If I can't finish it in time, then the fight will stand as it is so that Ix doesn't have to sit out a week.
SoulLord 06-07-05, 11:47 PM	Look back one page... Page 4 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6381193&postcount=111) oops cache playing tricks on me I totally missed that post.... ok i'll consider for the fight as lost so i'll be able to prepare for this weeks fight, unless that is forbidden?
Huan 06-08-05, 12:19 AM	Reran... same end, different progression: Once hit by entangle (which he/mount succeeded against), Indri based Zubair with his high speed, forced him into melee, and struck him down.
Cerebus13 06-08-05, 12:35 AM	Rerun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6373999&postcount=1606) of Xyan vs. Saya is up. The result is the same with a few more rolls and an extra Magic Missile. Unfortunately Saya and her mount could not kill Xyan's mirror images fast enough to prevent her from zapping out enough Magic Missile to end it.
xanadu 06-08-05, 01:17 AM	How is this a mute point? I ducked for cover, I get it for that one whole initiative number during that round. Since you and your familiar act on the same initiative (familiar first), I should have a +4 Cover bouns during that entire Segment. And since you attacked me in that segment (the same segment that I gained Cover from your familiar's attack), you are needed to hit me while I have Cover. As you say... "a little common sense here". Yes a little common sense. Xyanthraxia has an 18 intelligence. Why does she not wait a segment to deny sara's incidental ride check as is clearly implied from my tactics? Because I'm not a rules lawyer and didn't write "wait one intitiative count" :confused:
Pittbull 06-08-05, 02:34 AM	Good morning, fight Griff vs. Brilf (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6389134&postcount=1612) is up!
Zerone 06-08-05, 03:13 AM	Yes a little common sense. Xyanthraxia has an 18 intelligence. Why does she not wait a segment to deny sara's incidental ride check as is clearly implied from my tactics? Because I'm not a rules lawyer and didn't write "wait one intitiative count" :confused: As your tactics state... Goal Hit her with shocking grasp via Zia and scorching ray in same round. I want a one round kill, please do your best to execute this. She may have an 18 Int... but this statement is absolute. As is this one, the last sentence of your tactics... *If my initial attack tactic doesn't square with the rules or confuses you, PM me. I am very much relying on a one round kill. So, as you can plainly see, you wrote, twice, about a one round kill with both statements being absolute. If you reread your tactics you'll see that there was no 'be sure to deny Saya the use of the Ride Ability, Cover' clause, which is something you are trying to add in now, after the fact. I ask you... Why then, should Xyan get to wait? :confused: *•. Z
KerlanRayne 06-08-05, 04:56 AM	Reran... same end, different progression: Once hit by entangle (which he/mount succeeded against), Indri based Zubair with his high speed, forced him into melee, and struck him down.Ah well, lost anyway. Thank you for your time, I appreciate the rerun. I should have used entangle inside the mist but it wasn't in my tactics, I'll have to add that next time. You do however need to adjust the winnings to take allies into count. According to Cellardweller's Ally Calculator (http://users.bigpond.net.au/petersd/coco/allycalc/), I should get 675 xp and 749 gp where my opponent would get 1575 xp and 1750 gp. That's if you follow my tactics and don't use my horse. (It wouldn't change the fight anyway.) If you decide to keep the horse, it changes to 638 xp and 708 gp, where my opponent would get 1688 xp and 1875 gp. I read about your arm, so I'm not sure if you were away and missed the change to allies. KerlanRayne
Huan 06-08-05, 09:07 AM	@KerlanRayne Fixed. Thank you for your help, patience, and understanding. @Jindl Umm... Any chance the Nell vs Jannelle fight could be run really fast today ... please?
xanadu 06-08-05, 12:30 PM	As your tactics state... She may have an 18 Int... but this statement is absolute. As is this one, the last sentence of your tactics... So, as you can plainly see, you wrote, twice, about a one round kill with both statements being absolute. If you reread your tactics you'll see that there was no 'be sure to deny Saya the use of the Ride Ability, Cover' clause, which is something you are trying to add in now, after the fact. I ask you... Why then, should Xyan get to wait? :confused: *•. Z One round is not the same thing as one initiative count. I highly question the capability and objectivity of a pitlord who chooses to make an attack at target with an extra +4 AC when it is completely unneccesary simply because the gladiator didn't put in his tactics "Don't have so and so fight like a :censored:".
Cerebus13 06-08-05, 12:48 PM	One round is not the same thing as one initiative count. I highly question the capability and objectivity of a pitlord who chooses to make an attack at target with an extra +4 AC when it is completely unneccesary simply because the gladiator didn't put in his tactics "Don't have so and so fight like a :censored:".I got tired of arguing a perfectly legitimate reason for Xyan to have to delay when it was revealed to me that the CoCo uses strange rules for familiars. Rules that have them start on the same initiative count as their master (which is fine), but also allow them to shift between who goes first or second on a whim without having to change initiative count as the Delay action requires. Instead I reran the fight knowing that the result would largely be the same because Mirror Image was preventing so much damage. I've lowered myself to <one> fight a week again because I'm sick of dealing with fights that seem to always provoke a 3 or 4 page argument in the FotW thread. Rerunning fights two or three times every week is getting rediculous.
Jindl 06-08-05, 12:52 PM	@Jindl Umm... Any chance the Nell vs Jannelle fight could be run really fast today ... please? Doing it now.
Jindl 06-08-05, 01:51 PM	Jannelle Werabrook (Cellardweller) vs Nell Leonne (Huan): Jindl is finally finished. My apologies to both players for running the fight so late. I hope you both can squeeze in your updates before pairings. -Jindl
Caterane 06-08-05, 02:08 PM	Rerun of Lance vs Rayos is up. I think both gladiators can learn from this fight...
Jindl 06-08-05, 02:30 PM	I just want to go on record that I think this whole misuse of the fascinate ability is, in a word, garbage. This ability, which cannot be used in a dangerous situation (ie. when combat is nearby), is being used repeatedly once initiative has begun, once attacks have been made and damage dealt, and in this most recent fight, even during the same round that the targetted creature bit and tripped the bard. Not only is the whole use of fascinate in these situations illegal, but the ability should end anytime the target is attacked or becomes aware of an attack in the nearby vicinity. In both recent fights, the target was aware of an attack in thier vicinity (either targetting themselves or targetting the bard), yet the fascinate effect continued. All in all I think we must put an end to the complete misuse of this ability. Until such a time as that occurs, consider all of my characters who may potentially face a bard to be inactive, crafting, or questing. -Jindl
Sindorin 06-08-05, 02:36 PM	I do have one question about the fascinate ability. Isn't it based on eye contact? Couldn't one simply state 'avert my eyes if he has LoS' and simply take a -2 penalty to attacks or whatnot (something around there) to simply make the ability not work?
Cerebus13 06-08-05, 02:43 PM	I do have one question about the fascinate ability. Isn't it based on eye contact? Couldn't one simply state 'avert my eyes if he has LoS' and simply take a -2 penalty to attacks or whatnot (something around there) to simply make the ability not work?Fascinate requires the target to be able to see and hear the bard....so some counters would be to shut/avert your eyes, or deafen yourself using a spell or some beeswax possibly.
Jindl 06-08-05, 02:45 PM	On a seperate note, Cellardweller has informed me that due to a power blackout, he was unable to correct the mistakes in the Elder vs Ixenthor and his overpowered griffon last night. I have asked him to continue to work on correcting the fight and that the fight be extended. The current version simply would not occur under the Core rules. Ixenthor and his allies would need several more rounds to approach the Elder's starting position, making it highly unlikely that they would find the retreating Elder before his buffing ended and he went on the offensive. It is not fair to leave a fight with significant errors just so that the winning gladiator can be paired for the next pairings. I greatly appreciate Cellar's willingness to correct the fight, and think it appropriate that its final result be postponed to give him the time to do so. -Jindl
Sindorin 06-08-05, 03:01 PM	Fascinate requires the target to be able to see and hear the bard....so some counters would be to shut/avert your eyes, or deafen yourself using a spell or some beeswax possibly. So even without the unclear explanation given in the books, there is still a way to simply avoid it, albeit a slight penalty.
Jindl 06-08-05, 03:34 PM	So even without the unclear explanation given in the books, there is still a way to simply avoid it, albeit a slight penalty. That is no slight penalty. Deafness/Silence prevents casters from casting and prevents all opponents from locating the bard if he is invisible. Closing ones eyese grants the bard total concealment against all attacks. And to prevent the current mishandled fascintate, the bard's opponent has to do this from the beginning and during the entire combat, whether the bard uses fascinate or not. The simple fact is that we at the CoCo need to begin using the RAW regarding fascinate correctly. The ability cannot be used in combat, and any potential attack ends the effect. -Jindl
Cerebus13 06-08-05, 03:38 PM	That is no slight penalty. Deafness/Silence prevents casters from casting and prevents all opponents from locating the bard if he is invisible. Closing ones eyese grants the bard total concealment against all attacks. And to prevent the current mishandled fascintate, the bard's opponent has to do this from the beginning and during the entire combat, whether the bard uses fascinate or not. The simple fact is that we at the CoCo need to begin using the RAW regarding fascinate correctly. The ability cannot be used in combat, and any potential attack ends the effect. -JindlWell Deafness doesn't totally prevent casting, just applies a 20% failure chance to it :P.
xanadu 06-08-05, 05:33 PM	I got tired of arguing a perfectly legitimate reason for Xyan to have to delay when it was revealed to me that the CoCo uses strange rules for familiars. Rules that have them start on the same initiative count as their master (which is fine), but also allow them to shift between who goes first or second on a whim without having to change initiative count as the Delay action requires. Instead I reran the fight knowing that the result would largely be the same because Mirror Image was preventing so much damage. I've lowered myself to <one> fight a week again because I'm sick of dealing with fights that seem to always provoke a 3 or 4 page argument in the FotW thread. Rerunning fights two or three times every week is getting rediculous. Cerebus, personally I applaud your efforts to look up all of these rules to justify something which I believe is self-evident. There is not one gladiator here who would choose to fire an iffy ranged attack at a target with +4 AC if he did not have to do so...especially since absolutely nothing about the fight would be mechanically any different. Yet, the fact this this was argued over for 3 pages and lord knows how many hours you spent looking up rules and typing out responses is ridiculous. This is by far the most annoying thing about CoCo and I am sure what drives people away. I really think CoCo would be a much more enjoyable community people only discussed significant matters like fascinate rather than complain about minutia which can be made irrelevant by a simple action which would always be made in a paper and pencil environment.