Post/Author/DateTime	Post
McJarvis 03-12-08, 10:23 AM	Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. News and Whatnot **to be updated later tonight** New Rulings - Courtroom Crocodiles were errata'd off the Druid animal companion list for 1st level companions. This can be found in a new print-DMG, and is an example of "stealth errata" The Madness domain's bonus to wisdom applies to all thing in spellcasting- not just spell save DCs and bonus spells. The Council Decisions/Revelations Huan apparantley has stepped up to take the newspaper job. We'll see how that unfolds in the weeks to come... The rules thread is currently being revamped. See the council for more details. Current Topics Spell Resistance discussions have been renewed- more specifically whether monsters/PC's always improve SR with increased hit dice. Update: These are still going on, and several elders have spoken in support of not advancing SR with hd unless it is specifically said to do so. Check out the Courtroom and Council to join in all the fun! Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindWandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius![/QUOTE]
templer10 03-12-08, 11:17 AM	Assuming i get home in time to Edit - 2 Very intresting matches in ECL 12 & 14 - Asran vs elrick and Battle of the manifesters in - Istima vs one of my Psions (got a preference Zevox?).
Zevox 03-12-08, 03:12 PM	Don't be so quick to make assumptions - Besthira is active in the ECL 14 league as well, so either or both of us could end up against her. Zevox
templer10 03-12-08, 03:18 PM	Don't be so quick to make assumptions - Besthira is active in the ECL 14 league as well, so either or both of us could end up against her. Zevox i just hope i dont get a monster fight again then (hint hint to mwb...).
lonewolf 03-12-08, 03:24 PM	well, I just threw Samuel also into the ring, hoping for a big FFA or something. :D
Zevox 03-12-08, 04:32 PM	well, I just threw Samuel also into the ring, hoping for a big FFA or something. :D Cool - that'll give Istima a chance to try out one of his new powers. I wonder how a ghost likes being disintegrated :devil: . Zevox
whitebaron 03-12-08, 04:38 PM	Cool - that'll give Istima a chance to try out one of his new powers. I wonder how a ghost likes being disintegrated :devil: . Zevox if you can hit the ghost, and get through the 50% anyway... his touch ac is like 40 if he needs it... btw: looks like a heck of a fight on ecl8 :)
TelinArtho 03-12-08, 04:43 PM	if you can hit the ghost, and get through the 50% anyway... his touch ac is like 40 if he needs it... Well - Zevox is referring to a "new" power. Istima has had disintegrate for a while... Ethereal Jaunt however would make disintegrate a little more useful versus a ghost...
hogarth 03-12-08, 04:43 PM	if you can hit the ghost, and get through the 50% anyway... his touch ac is like 40 if he needs it... His touch AC isn't so great vs. an attacker with Ethereal Jaunt... EDIT: ninja'ed
Zevox 03-12-08, 04:44 PM	if you can hit the ghost, and get through the 50% anyway... his touch ac is like 40 if he needs it... You didn't quite get my meaning. Disintegrate isn't the new power I was referring to. Hell, normally I couldn't disintegrate an incorporeal foe simply because he has no form to disintegrate. I was referring to another power entirely that'll make fighting Sammuel, and any other ghost Istima ever fights, an absolute breeze. Zevox
MindWandererB 03-12-08, 04:46 PM	Not this week. Pairings done. A bit of a tight week. Credits: Callix F2 CrazyArtificer F2 A-1 Q-1 dulsi F1 Q-1 Durzulgor F1 SauroGrenom F2 A1 Sjiggie F2 TelinArtho F3 A1 A-1 templer10 F2 Turanson F1 whitebaron F5 A-1 Huan Q2 lonewolf A-1 Stormwind Q-2 Key: F=Fight, Q=Quest, C=Campaign, G=Guildmaster, A=Admin or Active Characters
templer10 03-12-08, 04:47 PM	Cool - that'll give Istima a chance to try out one of his new powers. I wonder how a ghost likes being disintegrated :devil: . Zevox A FFA would be incredibly Cool - but also kind of a nightmare to run.
templer10 03-12-08, 04:51 PM	The Eternal Dreamless Sleep (hogarth|templer10) vs. Thiel's Loyal Retainers (Erithmu|SauroGrenom) : Sjiggie [Plains] -Sjiggie my heart goes out to you - that's... 7 chars + familiars, mounts etc...
TelinArtho 03-12-08, 04:52 PM	@Durzulgor - in case you didn't already know: Dentik vs Korwald has been already posted for sheets and tactics.
hogarth 03-12-08, 04:54 PM	The Eternal Dreamless Sleep (hogarth|templer10) vs. Thiel's Loyal Retainers (Erithmu|SauroGrenom) : Sjiggie [Plains] -Sjiggie my heart goes out to you - that's... 7 chars + familiars, mounts etc... If Terlyn thinks he can intimidate the Eternal Dreamless Sleep by bringing his cohort's mouldering corpse to the fight, he's got another thing coming. SNAKE-EYES EATS MOULDERING CORPSES FOR BREAKFAST!! :drool:
whitebaron 03-12-08, 04:59 PM	with 5 fights this week, i want to urge my players (vasja, mwb, crazy, magicchoco, turanson, durz, callix, mucki, sjiggie) to send their tactics rather sooner than later. i'd like to do 2 on friday already...
templer10 03-12-08, 05:01 PM	If Terlyn thinks he can intimidate the Eternal Dreamless Sleep by bringing his cohort's mouldering corpse to the fight, he's got another thing coming. SNAKE-EYES EATS MOULDERING CORPSES FOR BREAKFAST!! :drool: Indeed - I try to tell her to stop - But she keeps at it...
whitebaron 03-12-08, 05:05 PM	Monster Info for Nodens: 1 Large Monster. (no knowledges whatsoever)
MindWandererB 03-12-08, 05:28 PM	with 5 fights this week, i want to urge my players (vasja, mwb, crazy, magicchoco, turanson, durz, callix, mucki, sjiggie) to send their tactics rather sooner than later. i'd like to do 2 on friday already... Done, for my part. Edit: Tactics sent for Besthirah as well, and forwarded for Gakhnalak.
templer10 03-12-08, 05:34 PM	WW monster has been rolled 3 Average Xorn - have fun. btw - i think the temple is just about the Worst arena to get these guys...
Salrantol 03-12-08, 05:56 PM	@SauroGrenom: Tactics for Felice tu`Ria vs. 2 wizards & a sorcerer sent via PM.
Salrantol 03-12-08, 06:01 PM	@Callix: Tactics for Enoch the Prophet vs. Blurgta the Touched forwarded via PM in case Rauul doesn't send them along.
Vasja 03-12-08, 07:01 PM	with 5 fights this week, i want to urge my players (vasja, mwb, crazy, magicchoco, turanson, durz, callix, mucki, sjiggie) to send their tactics rather sooner than later. i'd like to do 2 on friday already... Done here as well. Good luck running so many fights. As an aside: I have a new prison violation that may affect some of the skills I use for this fight. Will this affect the fight outcome, and how soon will I be able to fix these without forfeiting the match?
whitebaron 03-12-08, 07:26 PM	Done here as well. Good luck running so many fights. As an aside: I have a new prison violation that may affect some of the skills I use for this fight. Will this affect the fight outcome, and how soon will I be able to fix these without forfeiting the match? just send me what you want to change, i'll use those values for the fight already. you'll be able to edit again once the fight has been posted - friday or something like that.
Durzulgor 03-12-08, 08:24 PM	@WB: tactics for Undi sent, nothing special there. @callix: I'm really sorry, that I have to face Ralein, I really enjoyed having him on my side, but this one looks pretty one-sided. @dulsi: expect tactics for Durz soon.
Callix 03-12-08, 08:44 PM	@WB, Dusli: Tactics for Petyr and Ralein away. @Durzulgor: Don't be so sure of yourself. Anyway, Petyr should avenge Ralein in any case. Can you say "one-hit kill"?
Sjiggie 03-12-08, 11:41 PM	The Eternal Dreamless Sleep (hogarth|templer10) vs. Thiel's Loyal Retainers (Erithmu|SauroGrenom) : Sjiggie [Plains] -Sjiggie my heart goes out to you - that's... 7 chars + familiars, mounts etc... Please get the tactics in as soon as possible so I can run the fight as early as possible. Man... just my luck to get that fight...
Zevox 03-12-08, 11:44 PM	@ My pitlords - Expect tactics Friday. I've got too much to do for school and work tonight and tomorrow to get them done before then. Zevox
Durzulgor 03-13-08, 03:06 AM	@dulsi: Tactics for Durzulgor I sent
templer10 03-13-08, 04:03 AM	Please get the tactics in as soon as possible so I can run the fight as early as possible. Man... just my luck to get that fight... we will try to get them out today - but i wont have time to gover them for another 10 hours work + 2-3 hours family time.
mucki 03-13-08, 06:09 AM	Note: The pairings link again (still) points to the wrong post (battles thread of Feb 27).
CrazyArtificer 03-13-08, 06:27 AM	@wb: tactics for Varuxor have been sent. I expect you to roll average dice this time :)
Callix 03-13-08, 07:38 AM	Preliminary Gak vs Enoch is up. I thought I'd give you lots of time to nitpick over it. Not a good result for our GM at this point.... Results later. Does a 4.16% penalty to Gakhnalak look right?
Salrantol 03-13-08, 08:11 AM	Preliminary Gak vs Enoch is up. I thought I'd give you lots of time to nitpick over it. Not a good result for our GM at this point.... Results later. Does a 4.16% penalty to Gakhnalak look right?I'm pretty sure, given my tactics, that Enoch should have cast the spiritual weapons before using the inflict spells. The change worked to my advantage, so I'm sure MWB would want you to make the change. Also, you didn't roll SR for the wolf to be able to attack Gakhnalak. Gak gets a 1d20+2 vs. DC 11 for the wolf to be unable to touch him on the first round the wolf attacks him. Also, I'm not sure that Enoch can drop the summon monster IV he'd already cast to do inflict critical wounds. That should probably be divine power. Also, in the last round, you have Gakhnalak's AC listed as 21 (which looks low, his normal is 19 +4 shield +2 protection from evil, -2 enlarge person) and UFA hits on a 19. Now, UFA was hitting Blurgta on a 19, but I'm pretty sure he needs a 23 to hit Gakhnalak (which negates some earlier hits too, namely the wolf's and UFA's hits in round 13). Also, it's very confusing to have the Round 10 map posted for rounds 12 & 13. As far as the penalty goes, Gakhnalak has a 6/6 ally, and Enoch has 5/6 allies, so 1/6 x 25% = 4.166... That said, I have to admit being very surprised MWB didn't have Blurgta use silence on the saddle after how badly it crippled Enoch in his last fight.
CrazyArtificer 03-13-08, 08:28 AM	@Sauro: tactics for Interleague fight have been sent.
hogarth 03-13-08, 09:33 AM	Please get the tactics in as soon as possible so I can run the fight as early as possible. Man... just my luck to get that fight... I don't think it'll be very complicated to run; I predict it'll either be boring and long (e.g. 80 arrow attacks spread out over 800 rounds) or bloody and short (e.g. a dire wolf chowing down on an elf and a halfling).
Turanson 03-13-08, 10:16 AM	@whitebaron: Tactic for Nordens sent.
SauroGrenom 03-13-08, 10:55 AM	Sjiggie, Tactics for Theil's Retainers are away...
whitebaron 03-13-08, 10:55 AM	That said, I have to admit being very surprised MWB didn't have Blurgta use silence on the saddle after how badly it crippled Enoch in his last fight. silence gives a saving throw, if used on attended objects - not to good a chance against enoch riding on it...
Salrantol 03-13-08, 11:06 AM	silence gives a saving throw, if used on attended objects - not to good a chance against enoch riding on it...Except that the attending creature of a saddle is the mount. Or, at least, that's how it's been done before.
templer10 03-13-08, 11:16 AM	Except that the attending creature of a saddle is the mount. Or, at least, that's how it's been done before. Thats How i saw it when i used it on Enoch - the saddle is on the mount, not on enoch.
whitebaron 03-13-08, 11:28 AM	Thats How i saw it when i used it on Enoch - the saddle is on the mount, not on enoch. basically, a saddle is the link between rider and mount. while it is strapped to the mount, both rider and mount share about the same part of it. how does the spell differentiate between those two? we already had the same discussion when greasing saddles became an issue (thnx, durz. ;)) in my opinion, the horse is an attended object, too. no horse of itselfs will would resist such a spell...
Salrantol 03-13-08, 11:35 AM	basically, a saddle is the link between rider and mount. while it is strapped to the mount, both rider and mount share about the same part of it. how does the spell differentiate between those two? we already had the same discussion when greasing saddles became an issue (thnx, durz. ;)) in my opinion, the horse is an attended object, too. no horse of itselfs will would resist such a spell...Who's talking about a horse? We're talking about a nightmare skeleton with specific instructions to resist such a spell.
whitebaron 03-13-08, 11:38 AM	Who's talking about a horse? We're talking about a nightmare skeleton with specific instructions to resist such a spell. well, i don't see that being any different, no? the one wanting to resist the spell is the rider, not the horse/nightmare/whatever you got.
templer10 03-13-08, 11:44 AM	well, i don't see that being any different, no? the one wanting to resist the spell is the rider, not the horse/nightmare/whatever you got. i dont think i agree with you on this - say the rider gets of The mount - what then? the nightmare/horse/whatever suddenly wants to ressit on his own? By that sense if the rider doesnt tell the horse to ressit a spell he Wont.
TelinArtho 03-13-08, 11:45 AM	The horse is attending the saddle - the rider is along for the ride. In the case of greasing a saddle - the horse would resist the grease (from affecting the saddle at all), but the rider would need to resist the grease in order to keep from falling off.
whitebaron 03-13-08, 11:46 AM	i dont think i agree with you on this - say the rider gets of The mount - what then? the nightmare/horse/whatever suddenly wants to ressit on his own? By that sense if the rider doesnt tell the horse to ressit a spell he Wont. well, maybe we all know majestix from asterix: http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/5270/majestix.gif who attends that shield?
TelinArtho 03-13-08, 12:02 PM	The better of the two people carrying it.
Erithmu 03-13-08, 12:14 PM	The levitate spell: because no way those two guys hold that up and not look like they are in pain.
Salrantol 03-13-08, 01:03 PM	The levitate spell: because no way those two guys hold that up and not look like they are in pain.Actually, I think it's Tenser's floating disk in a low-magic setting.
Zevox 03-13-08, 01:19 PM	in my opinion, the horse is an attended object, too. no horse of itselfs will would resist such a spell... well, i don't see that being any different, no? the one wanting to resist the spell is the rider, not the horse/nightmare/whatever you got. It doesn't matter who wants to resist the spell, it matters who/what the spell targets. If the spell targets a creature, that creature makes the save - there is no way it could be otherwise. Creatures simply are not attended objects, because they aren't objects, but rather creatures. For objects, if they are attended, it matters who they are attended by, i.e. who has the item held/equipped/etc. For a saddle, that is the mount, to whom the saddle is strapped, not the rider, who is just sitting on the saddle. In other words, I'm in full agreement with Telin/templer10/Salrantol. Zevox
SauroGrenom 03-13-08, 03:12 PM	Felice vs Uranedal and Mineau is up. Felice sounds all french, but the other two... I have serious trouble with those names... I just cannot sound them out in my head. I had to keep checking to see if I spelled it right.
Salrantol 03-13-08, 03:26 PM	Fight looks good. It was a race and I lost... Only comment is mention that Rowier died in the rewards, since allies don't come back until the end of the 3FC. Edit:Also, Felice's Touchsight range (due to augmentation) is 70 ft. and she started out with the dorje and a powerstone in hand so she didn't have to draw them later. Felice would know where Uranedal and Gunnar are at her initiative in Round 4, at least, since they're only 40 and 45 feet away, respectively.http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=temple;a=Name,M,29,15,F elice;b=Name,M,29,22,Uranedal;c=Name,M,1 2,12,Mineau;d=Name,M,28,24,GunnarLooking at it closer, she'd see Uranedal in round 3 also, since he's 70 ft. away (65 on the ground, 5 altitude).http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=temple;a=Name,M,27,4,29 ,9,Felice;b=Name,M,28,27,29,22,Uranedal; c=Name,M,27,27,12,12,Mineau;d=Name,M,27, 28,28,24,Gunnar;los=29,9,29,22,4
SauroGrenom 03-13-08, 03:41 PM	Fight looks good. It was a race and I lost... Only comment is mention that Rowier died in the rewards, since allies don't come back until the end of the 3FC. You need Vigor... You had lots of pp to spend, and a 7pp vigor doubles your hp in a situation like this. With your dorje, you'll probably find that you have extra pp in many fights in the mid levels. It's probably a good idea to have a way of using those pp to your advantage.
SauroGrenom 03-13-08, 03:43 PM	alright... I'll look at it. They asked to keep a significant distance, so I'll just have to edit their moves as well.
Salrantol 03-13-08, 04:00 PM	alright... I'll look at it. They asked to keep a significant distance, so I'll just have to edit their moves as well.They asked to stay 60 ft. away (in Uranedal's case), but my Touchsight range is longer than that (which I don't think they accounted for).
Salrantol 03-13-08, 04:00 PM	You need Vigor... You had lots of pp to spend, and a 7pp vigor doubles your hp in a situation like this. With your dorje, you'll probably find that you have extra pp in many fights in the mid levels. It's probably a good idea to have a way of using those pp to your advantage.That was my own thought exactly.
SauroGrenom 03-13-08, 04:11 PM	They asked to stay 60 ft. away (in Uranedal's case), but my Touchsight range is longer than that (which I don't think they accounted for). Edited it.
Salrantol 03-13-08, 04:32 PM	Wow, I feel dumb. I forgot to update Felice's fight number at the top of her page (not the title, but the top of her page), so I planned the fight as though it were her second fight instead of her third. :banghead: Not that it would have made much difference without Vigor, but grrrrrr.....
Turanson 03-13-08, 04:37 PM	Edited it. Thanks for the run
CrazyArtificer 03-13-08, 05:18 PM	They asked to stay 60 ft. away (in Uranedal's case), but my Touchsight range is longer than that (which I don't think they accounted for). I actually asked to stay at 70 ft except when moving in for Lisca's charge ;) I second Vigor's tip. And on names, Felice is a typical Italian male name (means happy), so it sounded a bit weird to me when applied to a female :) Mineau, on the other hand, sounds French to me :) (lake Plateau, Eau, whatever) Uranedal is taken from Races of Stone.. there's a Gnome naming table and it fits the character. And in Italian is quite easy to read, as well. Thanks for the fast run Sauro. EDIT: Gunnor's penalty is missing there :)
Turanson 03-13-08, 05:54 PM	Mineau, on the other hand, sounds French to me :) (lake Plateau, Eau, whatever) Well I was actually thinking about Minerva as I think elven names needs to be a little girlly :)
whitebaron 03-14-08, 07:39 AM	tactics for jozan, sunstroke, petyr, varuxor, undurion, nodens, gradak received. still missing: lucifer, syril, @CA&Ca: tactics for lelenia & gwerdan sent. @t10: tactics for team vs. xorns will be sent later.
hogarth 03-14-08, 08:46 AM	Tactics for the Eternal Dreamless Sleep were sent last night. I added a small addendum just now.
templer10 03-14-08, 09:56 AM	Tactics for Elrick vs asran are out.
Sjiggie 03-14-08, 10:00 AM	Tactics for the Eternal Dreamless Sleep were sent last night. I added a small addendum just now.Received all of the teams tactics
whitebaron 03-14-08, 01:19 PM	The epic story of Nodens playing with Plasticine is up.
templer10 03-14-08, 01:32 PM	Telin - longshot's tactics are out. lonewolf - i do assume you are intrested in scaring longshot's cohort away for this fight yes? otherwise he could contribute to the fight.
templer10 03-14-08, 01:36 PM	The epic story of Nodens playing with Plasticine is up. iam suprised you didnt reroll that one - oozes i personaly consider an autoloss due to their ridiculesly slow speed. btw- Xorns in the temple isnt THAT bad.... it's not like they can just move through the earth completly uneseen and pop out right beneath you and eat you.... err.... nevermind....
TelinArtho 03-14-08, 01:40 PM	I've received tactics for Elrick and Longshot - but not from their opponents. I know Zevox said his would be a little late - but I haven't seen that from lonewolf.
Turanson 03-14-08, 01:52 PM	The epic story of Nodens playing with Plasticine is up. Lol good one as I read through it I feared I wouldn't see it untill it was to late Thanks for the run
whitebaron 03-14-08, 02:18 PM	iam suprised you didnt reroll that one - oozes i personaly consider an autoloss due to their ridiculesly slow speed. btw- Xorns in the temple isnt THAT bad.... it's not like they can just move through the earth completly uneseen and pop out right beneath you and eat you.... err.... nevermind.... well. a dc 15 spot check kills lots of characters (with wis 8, thats a nice 20% chance to see it even if it stands right next to you). also, if it had gone 1 round further, he'd have been dead, and that even with his good spot check. i consider this a save or die ability of the gel. cube. noone would say a wizard with just one spell (blindness or hold person - pick one) is no threat. so the same should apply here. about the xorns: well, we'll see. i hope you don't have them delay to long in the earth *g* also: lucifer vs. gradak is up too. not too much the poor halfling could do there. deflect arrows AND plains is about the worst to happen to a sniper.
lonewolf 03-14-08, 03:48 PM	Im starting to work on tactics now. Might be a bit late... Im starting with Samuels since Telin seems ancious to start a fight. @Templer: yes, Metamorph will be scared away.
lonewolf 03-14-08, 04:17 PM	@CA & Telin: Tactics are out. Both are rather short ones. :)
TelinArtho 03-14-08, 04:40 PM	@CrazyArtificer/Whitebaron: Ordering back an animal is a (mental) standard action according to the court decisions. While it is a standard action - we never stated that it was a mental command.
CrazyArtificer 03-14-08, 04:52 PM	@CrazyArtificer/Whitebaron: While it is a standard action - we never stated that it was a mental command. Yep, I already scrapped that part. However the fight isn't going very well for you, be advised. Forgot an Invisibility, I believe.
whitebaron 03-14-08, 04:57 PM	@CrazyArtificer/Whitebaron: While it is a standard action - we never stated that it was a mental command. it is like dismissing a spell, no? dismissing needs no command word. when the court decided that the animal can be ordered back even if it did not hear something, was out of range or comatose, it basically said you'd need no words for that...
McJarvis 03-14-08, 05:04 PM	it is like dismissing a spell, no? dismissing needs no command word. when the court decided that the animal can be ordered back even if it did not hear something, was out of range or comatose, it basically said you'd need no words for that... No- it was just saying that command words don't have to be "heard" by the item they are commanding. (or the associated animal, in this case) So just because your bag of tricks doesn't have ears, doesn't mean you can't command an animal back into it. This doesn't mean they don't have to be spoken. The only thought-activated objects to my knowledge are psionic.
whitebaron 03-14-08, 05:10 PM	No- it was just saying that command words don't have to be "heard" by the item they are commanding. (or the associated animal, in this case) So just because your bag of tricks doesn't have ears, doesn't mean you can't command an animal back into it. well, feels strange to have a use-activated item that suddenly needs a command word. and about the decision: it stated nothing about whether you'd actually use a command word or not. i simply deducted from the fact that the animals were summoned, that returning them to their native plane would be handled the same as you'd do with spells.
McJarvis 03-14-08, 05:13 PM	well, feels strange to have a use-activated item that suddenly needs a command word. and about the decision: it stated nothing about whether you'd actually use a command word or not. i simply deducted from the fact that the animals were summoned, that returning them to their native plane would be handled the same as you'd do with spells. I'm pretty sure the rule of thumb is that "unless it states otherwise, command word is needed". Notable exceptions would be use-activated(it's activated by use), continuous(not activated), and command-thought(psionics). Bag of tricks doesn't really apply to any of these. [at least, the ordering back into the bag part doesn't]
CrazyArtificer 03-14-08, 05:37 PM	And you wonder why you didn't buy a 50 gp Protection from Evil potion (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15340775&postcount=1827) is up.
TelinArtho 03-14-08, 05:41 PM	Longshot (templer10) vs Samuel Highground (lonewolf) or "Just how many 50% shots can I miss?" Rough luck there t10...
whitebaron 03-14-08, 05:46 PM	And you wonder why you didn't buy a 50 gp Protection from Evil potion (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15340775&postcount=1827) is up. thanks for the run. tactics from lelenia would have been different with PfE, that much is sure. though i don't believe 10 rounds would have been enough. ;) about the animals: i believe they should go away instantly once they reach -1. even the boar with its ferocity. i believe i've seen a rules passage for this once, or maybe in the faq or one ROTG. but i can't find it at the moment...
CrazyArtificer 03-14-08, 05:48 PM	about the animals: i believe they should go away instantly once they reach -1. even the boar with its ferocity. i believe i've seen a rules passage for this once, or maybe in the faq or one ROTG. but i can't find it at the moment... I wondered that, as they mimic SNA and in SNA they do when below 0 hp. However bag of tricks wording says until slain and that happens at -10.
TelinArtho 03-14-08, 05:50 PM	And you wonder why you didn't buy a 50 gp Protection from Evil potion (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15340775&postcount=1827) is up. I don't wonder about stuff like that. If someone wants to use all their money into a multiple bags of tricks - more power to them. About the fight - no need to change things because the rolls indicate I would have lost regardless, but here's the things I see that were done incorrectly: If Ialgo cannot get within range because of animals in the way, Ialgo will throw flames at them until they die. In round 5, Ialgo starts attacking the boar - but he's not being blocked by it. As such, his priority is still to find Lelenia. As for Whisp - he was never intended to engage anyone but Lelenia. That said - he was supposed to be moving ahead of Ialgo to help with that discovery - but I see now that I only specified that he stay at a 30ft elevation. Still - you did keep him out of engagement with the animals - and that's what I wanted, so it is fine with me. Anyway - thanks for the run. Next time, perhaps Ialgo will fight Lelenia :)
whitebaron 03-14-08, 05:54 PM	Anyway - thanks for the run. Next time, perhaps Ialgo will fight Lelenia :) i don't believe lelenia has ever fought a battle in her life alone. there'll always be protectors around - and this is bound to increase, not decrease. :)
CrazyArtificer 03-14-08, 05:56 PM	I don't wonder about stuff like that. If someone wants to use all their money into a multiple bags of tricks - more power to them. You know.. sometimes those potions works as a deterrent. OMG, he got PfE potion! Noooo, he'll stop my animals.. :weep: You don't actually need to use it. Something similar happened with Felice PfE potion vs Uranedal & Mineau. Both of us didn't cast Deep Slumber or Hideous Laughter and she didn't even drink that potion. In round 5, Ialgo starts attacking the boar - but he's not being blocked by it. As such, his priority is still to find Lelenia. As for Whisp - he was never intended to engage anyone but Lelenia. That said - he was supposed to be moving ahead of Ialgo to help with that discovery - but I see now that I only specified that he stay at a 30ft elevation. I read those passages a few times, but I failed to see what was the point of finding her if you don't have scripted something to make her visible. You cannot get AoO against her or whatever, so I decided it was better to simply attack the animals.
whitebaron 03-14-08, 06:00 PM	You know.. sometimes those potions works as a deterrent. OMG, he got PfE potion! Noooo, he'll stop my animals.. :weep: You don't actually need to use it. it might be enough to deter certain spells. but with a character built heavily on summons, you'd better drink it first. a pouncing tiger hitting you square in the face might end things sooner than you'd like...
TelinArtho 03-14-08, 06:02 PM	Heh - I just realized what the problem was... I forgot to mention to use invisibility purge... Anyway - I understand what you mean then. As for the PfE - Ialgo will not be using potions or scrolls over the course of his career - just part of my design. That's not to say that Prot. from Evil won't show up in his prepared spells from time to time though :) or Magic Circle for that matter...
CrazyArtificer 03-14-08, 06:07 PM	it might be enough to deter certain spells. but with a character built heavily on summons, you'd better drink it first. a pouncing tiger hitting you square in the face might end things sooner than you'd like... Eheh.. True. But the said pouncing Tiger still needs to find a way to catch a flying wizard :P As for the PfE - Ialgo will not be using potions or scrolls over the course of his career - just part of my design. That's not to say that Prot. from Evil won't show up in his prepared spells from time to time though :) or Magic Circle for that matter... Ialgo is a recycling fanatic like the mercenary druid? :eek: Btw, rewards are up. And before you say, I forgot to add elementals penalty. fixing that-->fixed. :)
lonewolf 03-14-08, 06:13 PM	Longshot (templer10) vs Samuel Highground (lonewolf) or "Just how many 50% shots can I miss?" Rough luck there t10... Now thats a suprise! :) Note that I believe you cannot ready a spell + another quicekend spell. This should save Longshot some pp. thanks for running!
whitebaron 03-14-08, 06:13 PM	yes! all money problems gone... Lelenia gains 2673 xp and 29700 gp
CrazyArtificer 03-14-08, 06:15 PM	yes! all money problems gone... LOL! fixing.
whitebaron 03-14-08, 06:17 PM	LOL! fixing. oh no :( how am i ever gonna afford that marble elefant now?
CrazyArtificer 03-14-08, 06:19 PM	oh no :( how am i ever gonna afford that marble elefant now? Uranedal can craft you one for a bargain price! And don't be worried if it doesn't look like real marble, it is (rolls bluff check)
whitebaron 03-14-08, 06:30 PM	Uranedal can craft you one for a bargain price! And don't be worried if it doesn't look like real marble, it is (rolls bluff check) well, the dice have spoken: Sense Motive(1d20+13=18 (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=2407#92679)) vs. Bluff (1d20-1=6 (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=2407#92680)) no chance, buddy.
CrazyArtificer 03-14-08, 06:39 PM	well, the dice have spoken: Sense Motive(1d20+13=18 (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=2407#92679)) vs. Bluff (1d20-1=6 (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=2407#92680)) no chance, buddy. I thought you really wanted to believe that :D Someone is willing to quest with Uranedal next week?
Turanson 03-14-08, 06:40 PM	Mekhoar vs. S'lertak is up
templer10 03-14-08, 06:43 PM	Now thats a suprise! :) Note that I believe you cannot ready a spell + another quicekend spell. This should save Longshot some pp. thanks for running! on 5 out of 6 rolls getting below 50 on the Dice and samuel failing to miss truly Suck.... Btw - At the last time you were against both my psions so they could double team you so you had much better odds this time around, and the Dice clearly favored you.
lonewolf 03-14-08, 07:31 PM	on 5 out of 6 rolls getting below 50 on the Dice and samuel failing to miss truly Suck.... Btw - At the last time you were against both my psions so they could double team you so you had much better odds this time around, and the Dice clearly favored you. I agree that this win was mostly luck. but actually, I fought both of your Psions individually well after he fought them together. his last 4 fights(including this one) were: Longshot(loss) Lord Lorian(win) Besthirah(win) Longshot(win)
Zevox 03-15-08, 12:40 AM	@ My Pitlords - Sorry tactics haven't been sent yet... running later than anticipated. I'll try to do one of them now and send it tonight, and make the other a priority tomorrow morning... Zevox
TelinArtho 03-15-08, 01:37 AM	I can wait until Monday sometime if needed Zevox.
Zevox 03-15-08, 02:07 AM	I can wait until Monday sometime if needed Zevox. Thats good information to have, yeah. In that case, I'll get out Istima's to templer tomorrow morning, and Asran's to you tomorrow night after I get back from work. Zevox
CrazyArtificer 03-15-08, 08:56 AM	The lucky summoner (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15345860&postcount=1833) is up.
Zevox 03-15-08, 09:51 AM	@ templer10 - Tactics for Istima Telarc (vs Besthira Lafali) have been PMed. Sorry about the delay. @ MWB - I apologize in advance. I don't like it, but I could only think of one way I was likely to win. I'm sure you know what I'm referring to - and if you don't, look at Istima's fight from last week and you'll get the gist. Zevox
TelinArtho 03-15-08, 10:03 AM	In round 4, Therador taps a tattoo - this provokes an AoO from everyone around him (Centy and Toronado). In the later rounds, I don't see why you are having Kraegin finish his buff sequence - I gave no indication to do so in my tactics if interrupted. Also - you are allowing Therador full attacks on things that have reach and that can attack from range (for instance, Toronado can attack from directly above Therador - Therador cannot take a 5ft step directly upwards, so he's out of luck; the spiders are throwing webs - so there's no reason for them to be within a 5ft step of him; the kyton similarly is able to stay at range. All of this does not need to be edited in unless lonewolf has issues though - so just store it away for if you need to make an edit on his account.
lonewolf 03-15-08, 12:23 PM	The lucky summoner (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15345860&postcount=1833) is up. I do have one issue that will probably change the fight. Using Kraegins tactics, his round 1 action should be dispel magic instead of Doom. That means that Theradors Will save against Doom should instead be used against Sanctuary, which means that Therador would ignore it. => Therador has a Full attack on Kraegin on round 3 while he is at 14hp with 2 hits for 27 damage. If I miss something and the sanctuary holds, I accept the loss.
TelinArtho 03-15-08, 12:34 PM	Since you didn't buff at all - that is probably a little extreme... I disagree.
lonewolf 03-15-08, 12:43 PM	CrazyArtificer has a history of using tactics very literaly. Using Dispel Magic in this situation would be consistent pitlording from him.
CrazyArtificer 03-15-08, 01:06 PM	CrazyArtificer has a history of using tactics very literaly. Using Dispel Magic in this situation would be consistent pitlording from him. While true, everything has to come down to logic. The reason why I didn't dispel magic on you is that there was nothing to dispel. Why should one dispel magic on a guy which is in front of him in round 1? And about me applying literally the tactics the consistency is shown by him resuming buffing (interrupt is not abort) once he ends summoning. And yes, I did forget about AoOs for the Tattoo. If you have positioning issue with monster, please provide generic guidelines in future fights. I indeed forgot about Toronado's reach.
Sjiggie 03-15-08, 01:17 PM	Due to a car accident in which I was involved. I think I won't be able to run Thiel's Loyal Retainers vs The Eternal Dreamless Sleep. Tactics are posted here Everything is fine with me I have no injuries but I can't concentrate for too long at the moment Sjiggie
lonewolf 03-15-08, 01:19 PM	While I do not see how this makes any less sense than not using power attack against inanimate objects, it is in your power as pitlord to make such a call. Congrats Telin.
Erithmu 03-15-08, 01:35 PM	Due to a car accident in which I was involved. I think I won't be able to run Thiel's Loyal Retainers vs The Eternal Dreamless Sleep. Tactics are posted here Everything is fine with me I have no injuries but I can't concentrate for too long at the moment SjiggieGet some rest.
MindWandererB 03-15-08, 02:11 PM	@ templer10 - Tactics for Istima Telarc (vs Besthira Lafali) have been PMed. Sorry about the delay. @ MWB - I apologize in advance. I don't like it, but I could only think of one way I was likely to win. I'm sure you know what I'm referring to - and if you don't, look at Istima's fight from last week and you'll get the gist. Zevox That's more or less what I figured. I based my own tactics on that, and my better-than-average chance of passing the saves. Still figured I'd lose, though.
templer10 03-15-08, 02:51 PM	, and my better-than-average chance of passing the saves. Still figured I'd lose, though. You would think that would be true... And with that - the rather Short istima vs bestirah or as i like to call It - MWB hate my Dice (2 weeks in a row) is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15346963&postcount=1836).
dulsi 03-15-08, 10:10 PM	Ralein awakens with the healers tending to his wounds. Rewards will be up later.
Zevox 03-15-08, 10:14 PM	You would think that would be true... And with that - the rather Short istima vs bestirah or as i like to call It - MWB hate my Dice (2 weeks in a row) is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15346963&postcount=1836). Predictable. I still hate using that power, but with Besthira, I truly had no option - too high saves and touch AC for anything else. And even with all her attack power, she can't chew through 202 hp faster than Istima can knock out 8 charisma. Thanks for the run. Now, to get working on Asran's tactics. Zevox
Callix 03-16-08, 03:41 AM	Ralein awakens with the healers tending to his wounds. Rewards will be up later. Yep. Was relying on either winning initiative or making the listen check, or surviving the first hit. Yes, Ralein needs See Invisibility/Invisibility Purge/something similar, but it's only really critical on the Plains. @Durz: Thanks for the gesture. Ralein would do the same, if he had any way to stabilise a dying character. "Although it says nothing about your swordsmanship to use that much magic to bring me down." Oi! Shut up, Ralein! I'm trying to be diplomatic here. :embarrass Callix
Callix 03-16-08, 04:47 AM	Edited Gak vs Enoch is up, complete with rewards. Result not changed, though it's a much better showing for Gakhnalak.
Salrantol 03-16-08, 07:22 AM	Edited Gak vs Enoch is up, complete with rewards. Result not changed, though it's a much better showing for Gakhnalak.Looks good, only comments don't affect the fight. You repeat some maps, and somehow Enoch appears to have teleported in round 14 to the spot at which he began round 11. Also, Enoch's second spiritual weapon couldn't be Extended, since he had already used all three uses of the Extend at that point. It only took one swing, so it doesn't matter, but that's the truth.
TelinArtho 03-17-08, 09:58 AM	Elrick Flamebrother (templer10) vs Archdevil Asran (Zevox) is up.
hogarth 03-17-08, 10:29 AM	Due to a car accident in which I was involved. I think I won't be able to run Thiel's Loyal Retainers vs The Eternal Dreamless Sleep. Tactics are posted here Anyone interesting in picking this up? It should be pretty straightforward, I think (either The Eternal Dreamless Sleep is going to be puppy chow or Thiel's Loyal Wizard is going to soak up some long-distance fireballs and arrows).
CrazyArtificer 03-17-08, 10:43 AM	Rewards for Kraegin vs Therador (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15345860&postcount=1833) are up.
TelinArtho 03-17-08, 10:49 AM	I think you have rewards a little off: CR5 ally for a ECL11 character is a 13.8888% penalty. ECL11 is 2.2727 gp/exp Kraegin gains 3300xp -13.8888% = 2841xp / 6458gp Therador gains 1252xp / 2847gp Unless there's something I am missing there. Also - please include this under Kraegin's prebuffs: Recall SMV with a PoP (5th), Blindness/Deafness with a PoP (3rd), Spiritual Weapon with a PoP (2nd) He also has Magic Vestment up for another 18+ hours. Lastly, he used his 1/day Contingent Summons (and likewise - I marked off SMIII from fight 1 as a prebuff - so it shouldn't be marked here).
CrazyArtificer 03-17-08, 10:54 AM	I think you have rewards a little off: CR5 ally for a ECL11 character is a 13.8888% penalty. ECL11 is 2.2727 gp/exp Kraegin gains 3300xp -13.8888% = 2841xp / 6458gp Therador gains 1252xp / 2847gp Unless there's something I am missing there. Also - please include this under Kraegin's prebuffs: Recall SMV with a PoP (5th), Blindness/Deafness with a PoP (3rd), Spiritual Weapon with a PoP (2nd) He also has Magic Vestment up for another 18+ hours. Lastly, he used his 1/day Contingent Summons (and likewise - I marked off SMIII from fight 1 as a prebuff - so it shouldn't be marked here). Will fix that asap. However I thought the penalty was 5/11*0.25= 11.36?
TelinArtho 03-17-08, 10:57 AM	No - it is based off of the MaxCA number - which is ECL-2. Since Kraegin is ECL11, his maxCA is 9. If that wasn't the case - no one could ever hit the max penalty (25%)
CrazyArtificer 03-17-08, 11:00 AM	Correct. Forgot that. fixing everything now. EDIT: fixed.
MindWandererB 03-17-08, 01:45 PM	I think you have rewards a little off: CR5 ally for a ECL11 character is a 13.8888% penalty. ECL11 is 2.2727 gp/exp Kraegin gains 3300xp -13.8888% = 2841xp / 6458gp Therador gains 1252xp / 2847gp Unless there's something I am missing there. Reminder: Only use the XP/GP ratio when you have to. Typically, you'll want to use the table's GP rewards, to avoid rounding error.
TelinArtho 03-17-08, 02:50 PM	Frankly its not often that I have a fight that doesn't have some sort of modifier to the rewards in terms of allies or political career. If I happen to ever have a case when they don't though - I tend to know the chart off the top of my head anyway...
whitebaron 03-17-08, 02:59 PM	Frankly its not often that I have a fight that doesn't have some sort of modifier to the rewards in terms of allies or political career. If I happen to ever have a case when they don't though - I tend to know the chart off the top of my head anyway... hehe, that's why i'm giving my modified awards on my sheets for all my characters, to make it easier on my pitlords. :)
MindWandererB 03-17-08, 04:05 PM	Frankly its not often that I have a fight that doesn't have some sort of modifier to the rewards in terms of allies or political career. If I happen to ever have a case when they don't though - I tend to know the chart off the top of my head anyway... Still, you get more accurate results if you multiply the base GP reward by the ally/career modifier than if you multiply the modified XP reward by the GP/XP ratio--unless you use the "true" ratio rather than the table's rounded value.
whitebaron 03-17-08, 04:06 PM	i've hit a problem in Sunstroke vs. Jozan. both tactics are valid, and i feel either way of giving one the advantage would be unfair. jozan has no sure way to keep away AND get shots in. Sunstroke has no way in keeping it up. Basically, that fight would go up to round 2000 or something before jozan runs out of arrows. he needs about 4-5 rounds to get one shot off, then needs to retreat, etc. what should i do? just roll the remaining 36d20 rolls and see whether he kills sunstroke? i cannot really tell he's delaying - since he wants to attack and keep away :(
TelinArtho 03-17-08, 04:09 PM	Well - since I often figure out the multiplier by doing the calculation of gp/xp anyway - its usually not an issue. There are exceptions - but they are not the rule.
templer10 03-17-08, 04:42 PM	i've hit a problem in Sunstroke vs. Jozan. both tactics are valid, and i feel either way of giving one the advantage would be unfair. jozan has no sure way to keep away AND get shots in. Sunstroke has no way in keeping it up. Basically, that fight would go up to round 2000 or something before jozan runs out of arrows. he needs about 4-5 rounds to get one shot off, then needs to retreat, etc. what should i do? just roll the remaining 36d20 rolls and see whether he kills sunstroke? i cannot really tell he's delaying - since he wants to attack and keep away :( what i do in this type of situtations is Ignore both sets of tactics (other then healing contingencies/rebuffs etc) since they are rendered invalid by the other side's tactics and Shoot all of said arrows - This is beaing unfair to the tower shield user at the start since he gets shot at and unfair to the bow user at the end if he didnt kill the tower shield user - But as i see it - Tuff - there is no reason to turn an ECL 3 fight into a 10 hours affair. the guys running th chars probably won't like this option - but it can't be helped. p.s - an archer bringing just 40 arrows?
Vasja 03-17-08, 04:59 PM	I have no problem with templer10's suggestion. I'm fine with getting cleaved in half if my remaining arrows haven't made a mark. To be honest I completely (and stupidly) ignored his tower shield while making my tactics. I guess I should have looked at my competition more closely. While I hope I don't stay an archer for long, lonewolf's character is much stronger in close-combat than me, so I am stuck in the role (at least for the moment).
whitebaron 03-17-08, 05:11 PM	Undurion vs. Petyr - just the opposite affair. will go on sunstroke vs. jozan later.
whitebaron 03-17-08, 07:58 PM	Varuxor and Syril and my dice... is up. 4d6+4 = 12 :) @vasja+mwb: unless you've got another suggestion to make, i'll simply roll up bowshots tomorrow evening...
MindWandererB 03-17-08, 08:03 PM	I'm fine with that, as well--I wish I'd thought to request renewal of my buffs (I have the PP), but oh well. Make the remaining 36 shots (note that my AC will be 22, you don't seem to have added in the tower shield--and adding +4 for cover or prone might be a reasonable improvisation) and move to our respective melee tactics.
whitebaron 03-17-08, 08:11 PM	I'm fine with that, as well--I wish I'd thought to request renewal of my buffs (I have the PP), but oh well. Make the remaining 36 shots (note that my AC will be 22, you don't seem to have added in the tower shield--and adding +4 for cover or prone might be a reasonable improvisation) and move to our respective melee tactics. if you take cover, you lose the ac bonus of your shield. that's why its not mentioned in your stat-line. would be to messy always doing it up and down depending on the battle situation. i'll give you 10 rounds worth of cover, since that's the time when you would be delaying to much and would need to get moving again.
MagicChoco 03-17-08, 09:07 PM	Varuxor and Syril and my dice... is up. 4d6+4 = 12 :) @vasja+mwb: unless you've got another suggestion to make, i'll simply roll up bowshots tomorrow evening... Aww, if only the second had only done that much. :P Thanks for the run though. I really wasn't expecting to win that.
CrazyArtificer 03-17-08, 09:14 PM	Varuxor and Syril and my dice... is up. 4d6+4 = 12 :) Varuxor's keeping to be unlucky. Luckily the last one have been more effective. Thanks for the run!
Callix 03-18-08, 02:48 AM	Undurion vs. Petyr - just the opposite affair. will go on sunstroke vs. jozan later. Thanks for the run, WB. Petyr will look at those powerstones, but he only just had to stop budgeting every 0.1lb of carrying capacity for bullets & ammo. I haven't caught everything up yet. EDIT: Undurion is taking a 25% allies penalty by bringing both horses. It's a bit odd, but it's in his prefights, so he takes the penalty, so rewards are a bit off.
whitebaron 03-18-08, 04:25 AM	Thanks for the run, WB. Petyr will look at those powerstones, but he only just had to stop budgeting every 0.1lb of carrying capacity for bullets & ammo. I haven't caught everything up yet. EDIT: Undurion is taking a 25% allies penalty by bringing both horses. It's a bit odd, but it's in his prefights, so he takes the penalty, so rewards are a bit off. actually, you're missing both are already ecl4. 300 XP/GP is with the penalties. ;) it's just the same as the ecl3 scores, though. but your scores should be higher, adjusting them to 1500/1500
templer10 03-18-08, 06:02 AM	Due to a car accident in which I was involved. I think I won't be able to run Thiel's Loyal Retainers vs The Eternal Dreamless Sleep. Tactics are posted here Everything is fine with me I have no injuries but I can't concentrate for too long at the moment Sjiggie Bump? it really shouldn't take long.
Callix 03-18-08, 07:20 AM	Valanthe vs Gwerdan is up. Why, oh why, do people think Evasion ruins everything?
CrazyArtificer 03-18-08, 07:30 AM	Felice vs Uranedal and Mineau is up. Felice sounds all french, but the other two... I have serious trouble with those names... I just cannot sound them out in my head. I had to keep checking to see if I spelled it right. Sauro, would you please fix Uranedal reward? He gets a xp penalty due to Gunnor
whitebaron 03-18-08, 08:55 AM	Valanthe vs Gwerdan is up. Why, oh why, do people think Evasion ruins everything? hi, and thanks for running! got no complaints, but if sjiggie wants something changed, here are the facts that went wrong: 1) gwerdan should do 4d6+7+4d6+2d6=10d6+7 in his first hit due to psionic weapon. 2) in round 8, gwerdan should deal damage twice, since if you establish the grapple, you already deal damage once. 3) in round 8, dissipating touch kinda auto-triggers. valanthe still needs to roll a touch attack for that, though. (but its not really difficult) 4) energy adaptation has a duration of 10min/level, you did 1min/level none of these changes anything for gwerdan. for valanthe, though, 4d6+5 more damage might bring him down earlier, giving him more pp and even leaving medivh with pp left for fight 3. i wonder why i'm telling these things though - it's likely we will square off again soon. ;) --edit -- ok, found a real complaint - concerning rewards: 2100*1.25 = 2625 XP // 3250 GP Gwerdan 700*0.75 = 525 XP // 650 GP Valanthe medivh is a full 25% penalty. :)
whitebaron 03-18-08, 01:42 PM	Sunstroke vs. Jozan, final act it's kinda strange we have to favor the ranged characters more than the ones that want to close in melee, still - the one trying to inflicting damage seems like the one more active - hard to penalize someone for not getting into the range of an axe that could kill within 1 or 2 blows.
dulsi 03-18-08, 02:11 PM	Rewards for Ralein Dreamstriker vs. Durzulgor I are now up.
whitebaron 03-18-08, 02:19 PM	@t10: just read your tactics for the xorns - they can NOT attack partially from within the ground, as they are only medium-sized. they are either full in or full out. full in means: 50% miss chance on us. +4 ac to them vs. our readied actions.
lonewolf 03-18-08, 02:23 PM	Also note that if they hide in the ground without giving us any opportunity to attack them, they should incur the cumulative 10 round delay penalty.
TelinArtho 03-18-08, 02:31 PM	And I'll repost this here since you have reposted your incorrect comment: Note that burrowing into the ground or Melding into some stone part of the Arena does not count as leaving; it would probably count against the non-cumulative 10-round limit on delaying tactics, though. @Durzulgor - since I note that you are taking a break due to not being able to connect to the roller - there's a couple of minor bonuses you are missing: -- Earth elementals get a +1 to hit and damage against land-bound opponents. I think you took into account the +1 to hit, but not the +1 to damage. -- Dentik and the earth elementals should be getting flanking bonuses for attacks on Korwald and Braegor (hasn't changed anything yet - but could be important in upcoming rounds) -- Dentik's sunder bonus should be +17 (+3 BAB, +3 str, +1 enh, +4 imp. sunder, +4 two-handed, +2 flanking) vs Korwald's +13 (+2 BAB, +3 str, +1 enh, +1 WF, +4 two-handed, +1 higher ground, +1 luck). Doesn't look like this would have changed anything though.
whitebaron 03-18-08, 02:39 PM	And I'll repost this here since you have reposted your incorrect comment: well, i'd believe that to be equally delaying even if they pop out of the ground. there's absolutely no game mechanical difference to e.g. going ethereal and staying like that for 10 rounds. but ethereal would be kicked painfully, xorns not? is this some kind of a "the poor monsters need some advantages too" - standpoint?
McJarvis 03-18-08, 02:41 PM	well, i'd believe that to be equally delaying even if they pop out of the ground. there's absolutely no game mechanical difference to e.g. going ethereal and staying like that for 10 rounds. but ethereal would be kicked painfully, xorns not? is this some kind of a "the poor monsters need some advantages too" - standpoint? We have had gladiators take this sort of tactic in the past. I see it as an abuse of the "10 round" rule of thumb, but others see it as legitiment tactics.
lonewolf 03-18-08, 02:49 PM	@Durzulgor - since I note that you are taking a break due to not being able to connect to the roller - there's a couple of minor bonuses you are missing: -- Earth elementals get a +1 to hit and damage against land-bound opponents. I think you took into account the +1 to hit, but not the +1 to damage. -- Dentik and the earth elementals should be getting flanking bonuses for attacks on Korwald and Braegor (hasn't changed anything yet - but could be important in upcoming rounds) -- Dentik's sunder bonus should be +17 (+3 BAB, +3 str, +1 enh, +4 imp. sunder, +4 two-handed, +2 flanking) vs Korwald's +13 (+2 BAB, +3 str, +1 enh, +1 WF, +4 two-handed, +1 higher ground, +1 luck). Doesn't look like this would have changed anything though. Also note that Korwald has Mounted Combat and thus a chance to negate one of those hits against his horse.
TelinArtho 03-18-08, 02:54 PM	True - but that's why I have both of them attacking the horse :) Plus your ride skill isn't too impressive to really worry about.
whitebaron 03-18-08, 03:22 PM	We have had gladiators take this sort of tactic in the past. I see it as an abuse of the "10 round" rule of thumb, but others see it as legitiment tactics. the wordings for such things are pretty bad - it should be more like if you delay only because you want to engage the opponent on other terms then now... basically, a sniper that's waiting while the other fighter searches him, is not delaying. but: a fighter that's waiting, while the other guy is searching him, and just waiting because he wants to expire all his buffs, is clearly delaying. even showing yourselves once then running and hiding again - this should not be allowed. any medium caster could wait for 60-70 rounds of invis, before even starting engaging the other guy. is this really what is wanted in the coco? i thought it was about active engagement - and not rules of delay.
Callix 03-18-08, 03:30 PM	hi, and thanks for running! got no complaints, but if sjiggie wants something changed, here are the facts that went wrong: 1) gwerdan should do 4d6+7+4d6+2d6=10d6+7 in his first hit due to psionic weapon. 2) in round 8, gwerdan should deal damage twice, since if you establish the grapple, you already deal damage once. 3) in round 8, dissipating touch kinda auto-triggers. valanthe still needs to roll a touch attack for that, though. (but its not really difficult) 4) energy adaptation has a duration of 10min/level, you did 1min/level none of these changes anything for gwerdan. for valanthe, though, 4d6+5 more damage might bring him down earlier, giving him more pp and even leaving medivh with pp left for fight 3. i wonder why i'm telling these things though - it's likely we will square off again soon. ;) --edit -- ok, found a real complaint - concerning rewards: 2100*1.25 = 2625 XP // 3250 GP Gwerdan 700*0.75 = 525 XP // 650 GP Valanthe medivh is a full 25% penalty. :) I've added the extra damage; Valanthe now drops in round 9, not round 13, so they both save a lot of PP. Rewards fixed too.
templer10 03-18-08, 03:30 PM	WW vs Xorns is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15370014&postcount=1845) - expanded GS crits are nasty...
McJarvis 03-18-08, 03:33 PM	basically, a sniper that's waiting while the other fighter searches him, is not delaying. but: a fighter that's waiting, while the other guy is searching him, and just waiting because he wants to expire all his buffs, is clearly delaying. even showing yourselves once then running and hiding again - this should not be allowed. That's exactly it, though. I think it was a sniper that was using this tactic, and they would purposefully only snipe once every ten rounds to try and wait out buffs & minimize chances of being found before then- I would call malarky on that. No "rule" is going to successfully mitigate this, though- since any rule we come up with beyond pitlord discretion is going to get a loop hole in it.
whitebaron 03-18-08, 03:39 PM	WW vs Xorns is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15370014&postcount=1845) - expanded GS crits are nasty... thank you for the run. the dice really liked me us. Crucio dealing 38 damage before dying is also pretty neat. @mcj: might be, but there should at least something to make people sensible towards such abuses.
Sjiggie 03-18-08, 11:00 PM	I don't think someone is going to pick up Thiel's Loyal Retainers vs Eternal Dreamless sleep and I won't be able to run it tommorow before the deadline it will have to wait till thursday before I'm able to run it. Sorry for the delay guys
TelinArtho 03-19-08, 01:03 AM	@Durzulgor - I don't understand in the roller the constantly changing modifiers. In round 18, the elementals have a +7 atk bonus, but then in round 19 - it drops to +5. As far as I can tell - it should be +8 (+1 BAB, +1 size, +3 str, +1 earth mastery, +2 flanking). Likewise - because of earth mastery - the damage should be increased by one on each successful hit. Now - this doesn't take down the horse any faster - but it does send it to -10 pretty quickly. Things that matter: 1. Korwald needs to make a soft fall check when the horse goes down vs DC15 or take 1d6 damage. 2. You still don't have the sunder checks correct that I marked earlier. Given that - Dentik should have dealt 1d8+4 dmg on the first sunder success; also he would succeed on the sunder attempt in round 21 (his total bonus should be +17 - +3 BAB, +3 str, +1 enh, +4 imp. sunder, +4 two-handed, +2 flanking). A tie would go to the larger modifier - so it would be a success. This means Dentik gets to attacking Korwald that much sooner. 3. Every round after the horse is down - the elementals should have a +8 atk bonus or +6 atk bonus when attacking (flanking/not flanking respectively). 4. After the greatsword is sundered - my tactics indicate to move on to attacking Korwald directly. I would appreciate if you could take these into account for me. Thanks.
Durzulgor 03-19-08, 01:28 AM	@Durzulgor - I don't understand in the roller the constantly changing modifiers. In round 18, the elementals have a +7 atk bonus, but then in round 19 - it drops to +5. As far as I can tell - it should be +8 (+1 BAB, +1 size, +3 str, +1 earth mastery, +2 flanking). Likewise - because of earth mastery - the damage should be increased by one on each successful hit. Now - this doesn't take down the horse any faster - but it does send it to -10 pretty quickly. sorry, haven't had anything exept the fight open, I'll have a look at that. edit: just to explain: His horse 5' stepped and thus negated them their flanking position, they have to get into that again, so for 1 (or 2?) rounds they're not flanking, exept if you want me to have them move into flanking positions, provoking AoOs doing so. Things that matter: 1. Korwald needs to make a soft fall check when the horse goes down vs DC15 or take 1d6 damage. hmm, that's a ride check, right? 2. You still don't have the sunder checks correct that I marked earlier. Given that - Dentik should have dealt 1d8+4 dmg on the first sunder success; also he would succeed on the sunder attempt in round 21 (his total bonus should be +17 - +3 BAB, +3 str, +1 enh, +4 imp. sunder, +4 two-handed, +2 flanking). A tie would go to the larger modifier - so it would be a success. This means Dentik gets to attacking Korwald that much sooner. well, not exactly. Taken from the SRD, sunder: "The wielder of a two-handed weapon on a sunder attempt gets a +4 bonus on this roll..." "One-Handed Melee Weapons Club — 1d4 1d6 x2 10 ft. 3 lb. Bludgeoning Mace, heavy 12 gp 1d6 1d8 x2 — 8 lb. Bludgeoning Morningstar 8 gp 1d6 1d8 x2 — 6 lb. Bludgeoning and piercing ...." Only because you wield it with two hands doesn't make it a two-handed weapon. Plus: You make an opposed attack roll, I've never heard of flanking playing a part in opposed attack rolls, so I'm not really shure of those +2 you're mentioning there. 2nd edit: now that I take a secound look at those rolls I realize I should've gotten some sleep! In the round that you destroyed Korwald's greatsword he actually was higher than you (by exactly those 2 points that flanking would grant you), so he'd still have his greatsword. 3. Every round after the horse is down - the elementals should have a +8 atk bonus or +6 atk bonus when attacking (flanking/not flanking respectively). yup, I missed the +1 for earth elementals, but I think that won't change much. I'll have a look at it though. 4. After the greatsword is sundered - my tactics indicate to move on to attacking Korwald directly. Dentik will sunder any weapon in Korwald's hands... well, he has a new weapon in hands, so "any weapon in Korwalds hands" applies! I would appreciate if you could take these into account for me. Thanks. well, I'm trying to do my best! ;-)
hogarth 03-19-08, 06:46 AM	I don't think someone is going to pick up Thiel's Loyal Retainers vs Eternal Dreamless sleep and I won't be able to run it tommorow before the deadline it will have to wait till thursday before I'm able to run it. Sorry for the delay guys No problem. I'm glad you're O.K. after your accident.
lonewolf 03-19-08, 08:28 AM	@Durzulgor: Im not sure about the flanking issue. I think he should gain the +2 bonus from flanking while sundering. Good point on the twohanded weapon though. thanks for running.
TelinArtho 03-19-08, 10:09 AM	Wielding a one-handed weapon in two-hands qualifies for the bonus - likewise, wielding a two-handed weapon in one hand (lance while mounted for instance) does not. You are right on the sundering multiple weapons - I thought I had only specified greatsword - blah. Flanking does apply to sunder attempts because it is an opposed attack roll with some additional special mods. I can't see how he could take a 5ft step to negate everyone's flanking - but without maps - I can't confirm that either. Soft fall is a ride check - yes. [EDIT] Had a chance to rethink the issue and I'm not sure anymore. It sucks because if I had realized that I wouldn't be getting the +4 from 2-handed, I wouldn't have gone with that tactic - but not much to do about it. Anyway - please do edit in the couple of minor things if you get the chance. I don't expect things to change though.
Durzulgor 03-19-08, 10:25 AM	The map looked something like this, didn't I include that? http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=forest;a=Dent,M,2,48;b= Korw,L,2,47,3,48;c=Name,M,2,45;d=Name,M, 3,45 And I haven't found anything confirming that wielding a one-handed weapon with two hands changes the weapons cathegory for that matter. That one time you'd have hit due to flanking I actually messed up and counted it as a hit eventhough you had 16 and he had 18, so in me messing up, I correctly applyed the flanking bonus (if that is even counted in for opposed attack rolls). The +1 from the elementals is already calculated in. It kills of breagor before the end of the fight, but since it's his 3rd fight in the cycle I didn't include it in the rewards section. Doing the ride check right now. edit: Done, he made it (21). Edit: Just had a third look at the rolls: The elementals don't hit any more with the +1; calculating the +2 for flanking into the sunder attempts doesn't change anything, exept making the sunder roll that destroyed the GS valid;
TelinArtho 03-19-08, 10:40 AM	Yeah - I'm good then. Not enough luck with the sunder attempts to make it worth it - so nothing to be done about it. Actually - in that map - Korwald couldn't take that 5ft step - you can't take a 5ft step around a corner like that (see the combat section of the SRD). Even if he could - the elementals could go underground in order to still flank without suffering an AoO. Leave the fight alone though - no need to go further with it at this point.
Durzulgor 03-19-08, 12:01 PM	Yeah - I'm good then. Not enough luck with the sunder attempts to make it worth it - so nothing to be done about it. Actually - in that map - Korwald couldn't take that 5ft step - you can't take a 5ft step around a corner like that (see the combat section of the SRD). Even if he could - the elementals could go underground in order to still flank without suffering an AoO. Leave the fight alone though - no need to go further with it at this point. Hmm, gotta have a look at those 5'-step-rules! Wouldn't have changed anything though, even if I'd calculate +3 to every single attack the elementals did (which won't apply, but just to sum it up ^^). Another question about that underground-movement, that I wasn't quite shure while running the fight: When they emerge from below the ground: Do they provoke AoOs? I assumed it's just like moving into an adjacent square and attacking, so not provoking AoOs, but, well, I'm not too familiar with burrowing creatures.
TelinArtho 03-19-08, 12:07 PM	Well - they would be in a square that is within the reach of the opponent, but have cover from him (actually total cover - but it doesn't matter). You provoke when you leave a threatened square - not when you enter one - so since the opponent doesn't threaten into squares that have cover - he cannot make AoO against a creature emerging from the ground.
hogarth 03-19-08, 12:41 PM	Actually - in that map - Korwald couldn't take that 5ft step - you can't take a 5ft step around a corner like that (see the combat section of the SRD). You can't move diagonally past a corner (even by taking a 5-foot step). You can move diagonally past a creature, even an opponent. Isn't the 5' step going past an opponent? EDIT: Oh, I see -- you're saying that the tree takes up the entire space on the map. I thought the trunk was only some subset of it. Never mind.
whitebaron 03-19-08, 01:12 PM	Hmm, gotta have a look at those 5'-step-rules! Wouldn't have changed anything though, even if I'd calculate +3 to every single attack the elementals did (which won't apply, but just to sum it up ^^). Another question about that underground-movement, that I wasn't quite shure while running the fight: When they emerge from below the ground: Do they provoke AoOs? I assumed it's just like moving into an adjacent square and attacking, so not provoking AoOs, but, well, I'm not too familiar with burrowing creatures. @hogarth: again, squares are always filled in dnd. again, it makes absolutely no sense, but in dnd you'll never have a really round tree-trunk. (you can get closer the bigger it gets, obviously) about 5-ft steps: you already quoted the important portion of it, and this won't change in 4e btw. about the AoO issue: elementals would provoke if they leave the squares to go below earth (at no cover from the earth) but not for emerging - this is just like an ordinary approach, they leave nothing where they would have been threatened. so in that map, if red is one of the elementals, it could not go underground and reemerge without AoO. all others could. (assuming 5ft reach)
hogarth 03-19-08, 01:41 PM	@hogarth: again, squares are always filled in dnd. again, it makes absolutely no sense, but in dnd you'll never have a really round tree-trunk. (you can get closer the bigger it gets, obviously) This has nothing to do with partially filled squares. My recollection is that the old version of the Forest Map had dots in the centre of the large trees indicating where the trunks were (i.e. the solid part of the tree took up one square, not 9 squares). See the description of Forest terrain in the SRD for details, namely: Medium and dense forests have massive trees as well. These trees take up an entire square and provide cover to anyone behind them. When the Forest Map was reworked, it was simplified so that the tree takes up the whole 15' x 15' area.
whitebaron 03-19-08, 01:52 PM	This has nothing to do with partially filled squares. My recollection is that the old version of the Forest Map had dots in the centre of the large trees indicating where the trunks were (i.e. the solid part of the tree took up one square, not 9 squares). ah, well, this predates me. :)
MindWandererB 03-19-08, 05:20 PM	This has nothing to do with partially filled squares. My recollection is that the old version of the Forest Map had dots in the centre of the large trees indicating where the trunks were (i.e. the solid part of the tree took up one square, not 9 squares). See the description of Forest terrain in the SRD for details, namely: When the Forest Map was reworked, it was simplified so that the tree takes up the whole 15' x 15' area. Quite the reverse, actually. Cat had even bigger trees, to begin with. I tried to argue him down to the tree sizes from the SRD but failed. So those trees have always been 3x3.
hogarth 03-20-08, 06:41 AM	Quite the reverse, actually. Cat had even bigger trees, to begin with. I tried to argue him down to the tree sizes from the SRD but failed. So those trees have always been 3x3. Apparently my recollection is wrong. It's not the first time!