Post/Author/DateTime	Post
McJarvis 04-02-08, 09:36 AM	Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. News and Whatnot Front and Center The community playtest (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=946596) thread needs some more volunteers. From what I understand MindWandererB wants people to be willing to generate & write tactics for level 1 or 2 characters for the community game being developed. New Rulings - Courtroom Freedom of Movement is blocked by wall like effects that prevent all movement accross the wall. Examples of this are most of the "wall" spells, forcecage, and anti-life shell. [This is not an exhaustive list] Elders voting: Rith, Sauro, MWB, Crazy. The Council Decisions/Revelations Intelligent items are no longer "Random". They are merely approved on the black market and quested for. [They still cost credits, though] Current Topics Council - Mechanics of the "Awaken" spell is currently being discussed in the council. Courtroom- Good grief, we're talking about the Bag of Tricks again. Sooner or later Lelenia will level enough that we can put these discussions behind us. :-) Council- Delay rules are still being discussed. Courtroom- The mechanics behind Hide in Plain Sight are being discussed. Courtroom- Whether invisible characters can let an opponent "pass through" thier square is being discussed. Check out the Courtroom and Council to join in all the fun! Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. New idea: let's not insult anyone, ok? :) Pairings GM MindWandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
McJarvis 04-02-08, 02:13 PM	I predict Thorell will be facing Verran this week, because I always get the one fight I don't want to fight. Direct damage is ever my nemisis =\
templer10 04-02-08, 02:38 PM	i predict longshot and bestirah will meet again- hopefull this time i will manage to actually send the tactics i actually wrote against her...
McJarvis 04-02-08, 02:41 PM	i predict longshot and bestirah will meet again- hopefull this time i will manage to actually send the tactics i actually wrote against her... you could try to confuse the pitlord alot by sending tactics for bestirah to fight longshot with ;)
whitebaron 04-02-08, 03:34 PM	I predict Thorell will be facing Verran this week, because I always get the one fight I don't want to fight. Direct damage is ever my nemisis =\ don't worry, it's just 16pp and 9 sls. could be worse. and on a side note: maybe it will NOT be the plains. ;)
Turanson 04-02-08, 03:47 PM	Hey MWB I just saw that Nordens wasn't set as active due to me only updating the in sheet date:rolleyes: any chance he could still make it and be active thise week ?
MindWandererB 04-02-08, 03:52 PM	Hey MWB I just saw that Nordens wasn't set as active due to me only updating the in sheet date:rolleyes: any chance he could still make it and be active thise week ? Sure. Pairings done. Note that there are new playtest fights this week. Pitlording for those will be on a volunteer basis. If anyone else wants to get in on the Grand Melee action, it can take up to 2 more participants. For the ECL 11, levels will have to be monkeyed around with a bit--McJ is on the honor system to advance his PCs to 11; for the ECL 12's, we'll use old character sheets posted in previous fights. Credits: Callix F1 CrazyArtificer F1 Q-1 dulsi F1 Q-1 Durzulgor F1 Huan Q4 lonewolf F1 A-1 McJarvis F3 SauroGrenom F1 Q-1 Stormwind Q2 TelinArtho F2 A-6 Q-2 templer10 F1 Turanson F1 whitebaron F3 A-1 Erithmu Q-1 MindWandererB A2 A-3 Vathelokai Q2
Turanson 04-02-08, 03:54 PM	Thanks MWB
McJarvis 04-02-08, 03:55 PM	@MWB: Is the "grand melee" level 1 or 2? I posted 2 versions of little TIM. The ECL11- am I using TIM & Thorell as posted currently[ECL5 & 6], or do I need to post some ECL11 versions of them?
lonewolf 04-02-08, 03:59 PM	@Capture the Flag: I would REALLY prefer to do this in a seperate thread. writing useful tactics for this looks pretty much impossible to me.
MindWandererB 04-02-08, 04:02 PM	@MWB: Is the "grand melee" level 1 or 2? I posted 2 versions of little TIM. The ECL11- am I using TIM & Thorell as posted currently[ECL5 & 6], or do I need to post some ECL11 versions of them? 1 and 11, respectively. See above.
TelinArtho 04-02-08, 04:03 PM	@Turanson - Mineau is fighting 2 Barghests. Good luck.
McJarvis 04-02-08, 04:04 PM	1 and 11, respectively. See above. That's my bad, I usually do read everything you write in posts! :) Since we're using old character sheets for over 12+ ECL chars, I'll suit up my chars in a way I would for normal arena fights. [I haven't really looked at what the format "capture the flag" means, or any of the rules of things allowed/not allowed in it] /me goes to the store for his 50 arrows of kitty-slaying.
Salrantol 04-02-08, 04:14 PM	Well, as long as it's not on the Plains, I think I have this one...Me and my big subvocal mouth....
whitebaron 04-02-08, 04:40 PM	verren vs. korwald... again... and the map only slightly better :(
McJarvis 04-02-08, 04:44 PM	verren vs. korwald... again... and the map only slightly better :( I would trade with you if I could :)
whitebaron 04-02-08, 04:51 PM	well lets make it a big ffa on the plains *ggg* monster info for orgauth: 3 tiny dragons, that look like - well tiny dragons. monster info for nodens: no knowledges, sorry. - large fourlegged monster
TelinArtho 04-02-08, 05:18 PM	@MWB - you mentioned that you might include an index in that playtest thread. At the very least - it would be helpful to have links to all of the agents/characters that are there. For something like a grand melee - searching through the thread's going to be a bit of a pain...
Salrantol 04-02-08, 05:21 PM	@lonewolf: Enoch's Complete Guide to Defeating Monsters With Spell Resistance Using Magic sent via PM.
SauroGrenom 04-02-08, 05:23 PM	Does the benefit of Court Connections Political Career (bonus to rewards and such) apply to quest rewards? I assume so, but I'm not sure.
TelinArtho 04-02-08, 05:29 PM	You can't use free activities for quests/miniquests/campaigns.
SauroGrenom 04-02-08, 05:31 PM	You can't use free activities for quests/miniquests/campaigns. I said cort connections at first, but I should have said political career. That's an automatic skill package, and no free activity is required for it to function... so as far as I can tell it should apply. That is unless I'm missing something.
TelinArtho 04-02-08, 05:44 PM	Well - the entire section of skills is prefaced with a statement that says the activities cannot be used except in arena fights. I know that Erithmu Darkmane has been questing since ECL4 and never gained the benefits of his political career from quests. I don't think anyone has gained the benefits of PC in a quest yet (but I don't know how many others had it who also quested).
lonewolf 04-02-08, 05:48 PM	On the other hand, Wiener Wadlbeisser got political career on their miniquest. I think its one of these areas that arent really written down in our rules and everyone does it the way he thinks it should work. Maybe we should change that.
SauroGrenom 04-02-08, 05:51 PM	Yea. Activities are totally out of the question while questing/campaigning, but Political Career isn't an activity. It doesn't even modify an activity, it's just an automatic modification to the rewards. It's more like the package Hide Resources. Would you say that a character using Hide Resources would need to leave some of their expendables at home on a quest?
lonewolf 04-02-08, 06:04 PM	Max tactics have been sent. The rest of them will come tomorrow or maybe friday.
Salrantol 04-02-08, 06:34 PM	If anyone else wants to get in on the Grand Melee action, it can take up to 2 more participants. Is Enoch's agent too late to get involved?
Sjiggie 04-02-08, 06:45 PM	I can't believe it Gradak is fighting on the plains again! Do you have something against him MwB you always let him fight on the plains ;)
MindWandererB 04-02-08, 08:59 PM	Is Enoch's agent too late to get involved? Not at all. Whoops... it's a CR 1 fight, and Enoch's agent is CR 2. I've added in Kitty's agent, though (didn't know it was there).
Stormwind 04-03-08, 07:57 AM	@Sauro: Varjo's tactics sent.
lonewolf 04-03-08, 08:29 AM	tactics for Darian and Korwald are also away. @MWB: Kittys agent is new. I only just posted him and will have to add some equipment(=> barding) to him.
McJarvis 04-03-08, 12:18 PM	tactics for thorell are out.
lonewolf 04-03-08, 12:30 PM	tactics for thorell are out. Now that both our tactics are out, I gotta ask: are you using both mirror image and invisibility?
McJarvis 04-03-08, 12:33 PM	Now that both our tactics are out, I gotta ask: are you using both mirror image and invisibility? Yeah. I'm 1 fight away from getting GR...if I don't win this, I'm pretty sure thorell will never see it. [I thought i'd get it last week, but it turns out mineau was the only gladiator fighting last week that couldn't get me GR if I won...]
Sjiggie 04-03-08, 12:37 PM	McJarvis reply sent regarding Gradak's tactics Valanthe's tactics are almost done
lonewolf 04-03-08, 12:42 PM	Yeah. I'm 1 fight away from getting GR...if I don't win this, I'm pretty sure thorell will never see it. [I thought i'd get it last week, but it turns out mineau was the only gladiator fighting last week that couldn't get me GR if I won...] In that case Max chances to win this one are pretty low. Hes gotta survive the alphastrike AND manage to manifest astral constructs with Thorell standing in front of him... :embarrass
McJarvis 04-03-08, 12:46 PM	In that case Max chances to win this one are pretty low. Hes gotta survive the alphastrike AND manage to manifest astral constructs with Thorell standing in front of him... :embarrass If it makes you feel any better, I spent _alot_ of gp on this fight. edit- and you do still have a chance...we'll see how the dice like me. I guess it'll just suck for me if I lose this after spending so much on it =\
TelinArtho 04-03-08, 04:53 PM	Mineau Guwango (Turanson) vs 2 Barghests (unknown monsters) is up.
McJarvis 04-03-08, 05:06 PM	Mineau Guwango (Turanson) vs 2 Barghests (unknown monsters) is up. ...wow. I would not have wanted to trade fights with turan, that is for sure.
TelinArtho 04-03-08, 05:29 PM	Small map with a character who needs 3 rounds to buff versus 2 melee monsters with the ability to dimension door and the first one getting lucky on the placement on the dimension door can be especially nasty. There are certainly some ECL6 characters who could take on 2 barghests though (I think Farig would have a better than even shot at it...), but full casters are probably not likely to win...
McJarvis 04-03-08, 05:33 PM	Small map with a character who needs 3 rounds to buff versus 2 melee monsters with the ability to dimension door and the first one getting lucky on the placement on the dimension door can be especially nasty. There are certainly some ECL6 characters who could take on 2 barghests though (I think Farig would have a better than even shot at it...), but full casters are probably not likely to win... If it makes a difference- dimension door stipulates that you can't take any more actions until your next turn, so the one that found him couldn't yell for help. As far as the challenge of the encounter- there are ways to mitigate the advantages of these monsters to be sure. I'd imagine if this had been thorell's fight _and he knew what he was up against_ I would have used rope trick to avoid them, or a combination of movement & web to gain some time. I'm just saying that from Mineau's perspective, even one of these would have been a challenge- not to mention _two_. Given that they can levitate at will, he didn't have a chance even if he got to the center, since they could have levitated to melee him. And, of course, that I wouldn't have traded fights with him if given the choice :).
TelinArtho 04-03-08, 05:59 PM	Hmmm - in that case, I may have made an error: Can the barghests take AoOs on the round that they dimension door'ed in? Calling to the other barghest was just a free action - so that's not so much an issue - but the AoOs could be more significant (though not likely to change the result - it will be enough for him to have more effect...).
McJarvis 04-03-08, 06:08 PM	I believe AoO's are non-actions, though I don't know where I garnered that knowledge from.
MindWandererB 04-03-08, 06:14 PM	I believe AoO's are non-actions, though I don't know where I garnered that knowledge from. They're considered actions in some places but not in others, so it's complicated. Edit: @templer, Telin, lonewolf, whitebaron: tactics for Gakhnalak, Flutterthought, Besthirah, and Sunstroke are out. Kervan is going to take me a little longer--that has the potential to be a complicated fight. Edit 2: @Sauro, tactics for Kervan are now out as well. Considering the very small number of options Varjo has on paper, once certainly has to be prepared for a lot when facing him. I'm hoping I haven't overlooked anything.
whitebaron 04-04-08, 07:39 AM	@callix: tactics for verren are out. let's hope i learned enough from last weeks fight to win this one. @dulsi: i still need tactics for orgauth and his dragons. ;)
Turanson 04-04-08, 08:46 AM	Hey Telin Thanks for the run no need to edit it for me, as I don't think that I ever stod a chance.
Stormwind 04-04-08, 08:53 AM	Edit 2: @Sauro, tactics for Kervan are now out as well. Considering the very small number of options Varjo has on paper, once certainly has to be prepared for a lot when facing him. I'm hoping I haven't overlooked anything. @MWB: I'm glad that Varjo is proving to be sufficiently challenging (at least while writing tactics). I've tried to give her as many options as I can, which has been fairly challenging just by itself, ... particularly with the limitations that incorporeal creatures suffer regarding equipment ;)
templer10 04-04-08, 10:02 AM	Telin - tactics for longshot vs bestirah are out - probably the shortest i ever wrote.
TelinArtho 04-04-08, 10:40 AM	And just as short is Longshot (templer10) vs Besthirah Lafali (MindWandererB). Not like Besthirah needed to fail the first save, but when she did - it was really all over...
McJarvis 04-04-08, 10:52 AM	Sooner or later the psions at higher levels are going to have to get tired of egowhipping opponents to death. :-)
TelinArtho 04-04-08, 10:55 AM	At least for Kraegin its going to cost a few more PP... Of course, that's assuming I decide to activate him in 2 months when he's done crafting :)
dulsi 04-04-08, 10:56 AM	@dulsi: i still need tactics for orgauth and his dragons. ;) Just sent the tactics. Got tactics from Callix. Still waiting for mucki's tactics for Lucifer.
mucki 04-04-08, 11:22 AM	@dulsi: tactics sent Also: if someone is taking over that grand melee fight, can you please send me a PM, so i know whom to send the tactics to ?
Turanson 04-04-08, 04:23 PM	Howler vs. Volley is up. As alway please post any and all concerns
The Dread Dormammu 04-04-08, 06:10 PM	@ McJarvis Snaga's tactics are sent.
Callix 04-04-08, 06:22 PM	Howler vs. Volley is up. As alway please post any and all concerns 50/50 shot of him making his saving throw. He did. Well done, MagicChoco. No issues I can see.
SauroGrenom 04-05-08, 09:05 PM	Sooner or later the psions at higher levels are going to have to get tired of egowhipping opponents to death. :-) Fat chance of that...
MindWandererB 04-05-08, 10:00 PM	Fat chance of that... I have to admit, it's getting a little frustrating... if you don't have Ego Whip, then you need Spell Immunity, Spell Resistance, immunity to ability damage, or a crazy-high Cha to be competitive past ECL 11 or so. Most characters don't have a chance.
Salrantol 04-05-08, 11:47 PM	I have to admit, it's getting a little frustrating... if you don't have Ego Whip, then you need Spell Immunity, Spell Resistance, immunity to ability damage, or a crazy-high Cha to be competitive past ECL 11 or so. Most characters don't have a chance.You'd think I'm selling them, but... 34560 (admittedly a bit steep) gets the incredibly good, 3/day CL8 spell immunity item. It's immunity to two spells in every fight, with a not-completely-sucky CL to resist dispelling. It is what non-SR characters need to keep competetive with certain opposition. It's (except for price) the equivalent to buff addicts needing rings of counterspelling.
MindWandererB 04-06-08, 12:34 AM	You'd think I'm selling them, but... 34560 (admittedly a bit steep) gets the incredibly good, 3/day CL8 spell immunity item. It's immunity to two spells in every fight, with a not-completely-sucky CL to resist dispelling. It is what non-SR characters need to keep competetive with certain opposition. It's (except for price) the equivalent to buff addicts needing rings of counterspelling. Besthirah can't even really use it at that price. It's command word-activated, and she can't talk in hybrid form.
McJarvis 04-06-08, 12:36 AM	I have to admit, it's getting a little frustrating... if you don't have Ego Whip, then you need Spell Immunity, Spell Resistance, immunity to ability damage, or a crazy-high Cha to be competitive past ECL 11 or so. Most characters don't have a chance. Also acceptable are mindblank spellcasting services, becoming untargetible[concealment of some kind, dispel the touchsight], and antimagic fields. Unfortunately, none of these options[except mindblank spellcasting services] are available to non-casters.
whitebaron 04-06-08, 07:00 PM	nodens vs. dire wolverine should be up soon... (if the forum lets me post it)
SauroGrenom 04-06-08, 11:12 PM	Unfortunately, none of these options[except mindblank spellcasting services] are available to non-casters.Yea... non-casters are up a crick when it comes to ego whip. MindBlank is the only thing, and against psions with relatively large ability to keep casting dispel psionics... thats only going to work for a short while. Say that Mind Blank is cast at CL 15, and Bestheria is against CL14 casters. So that's a 45% chance that each dispel psionics will down the mind blank. That means that you have almost 80% chance of loosing that protection in the first two rounds. If the psion needs, he can keep sending dispel psionics over and over till it downs the mind blank. In any case, at best the expensive prebuff only offers one to three rounds worth of protection. You have to make the DC 28 will saves, and kill your opponent before the 3d4 Cha damage kills you. It gets better at ECL15 when it jumps to 4d4 damage... It's a tall order and completely defines the way that high level combat with psions takes place.
SauroGrenom 04-06-08, 11:19 PM	For Kervan vs Vargo, I have your tactics, and I don't see any obvious errors that need dealing with. I was traveling this weekend, so I'll have time for the fights on monday or tuesday nights instead of the usual sunday night.
Stormwind 04-07-08, 03:57 AM	Also acceptable are mindblank spellcasting services, becoming untargetible[concealment of some kind, dispel the touchsight], and antimagic fields. Unfortunately, none of these options[except mindblank spellcasting services] are available to non-casters. On the other hand, even if you have immunity to Ego whip (through spell immunity/immunity to ability damage/etc), Psions are still dangerous foes, particularly if they use augmented energy missiles (which most psions on these boards have) due to the fact that energy missiles are one of the few ways to force a fortitude save on undead (which is one of the ways to gain immunity to ability damage). Either way, combat against a Psion is usually very challenging at mid or high levels.
Turanson 04-07-08, 08:12 AM	hey baron thanks for the run I have a couple of questions 1. it don't look like you used Nordens Point blank shot that would be 4 hp more damage. 2. since it rages in round 3 I think that with Point blank shot Nordens should hit i 2 times in round 5. this should change the result of the fight I think If you could answer these questions I'll be most appreciative
Callix 04-07-08, 08:35 AM	The first 17 rounds of Korwald vs Verren are up. I'm happy to keep going, but it's been fairly one-sided, and I'd like the players' ideas as well. Will finish tomorrow.
lonewolf 04-07-08, 08:57 AM	My opinion: If Verren continues to evade Korwald like that, no reason why not to get out the bow and start shooting. Another option would be to use Lay on hands & the wand of CLW to heal both Breagor and Korwald. Im only 20ft slower on a double move than he is andI still get a standard action while he doesnt. I think I should be able to still pull this one of. 2 things I noted in Verrens favor: Divine Favor has a duration of 1 minute, not 1 minute/CL, so it should run out on round 17. Protection from evil also should run out on round 16, which you seem to have missed. btw: waiting in the swamp, even while yelling is still delaying IMHO. Its a grey area though and its absolutely your call.
whitebaron 04-07-08, 09:12 AM	@turanson: ok will look into it, but maybe not before tuesday/wednesday. will do my other fights first - but i believe you're right. @callix: i had quite some bad luck against breagors saves. fat chance for the horse making every save - but it did. as nothing bad happened yet, i won't argue that you moved verren out of the swamp - but that was not within my tactics. two bits: the round 14 EM roll seems to be completely missing. (it breached PR and he failed his save) - the EM rolls are not all used in the fight yet, and verren used (according to the thread) 3 EMs, but it already cost him 12pp. (so it was there- please use that roll) -> that's 10 damage to korwald, 5 to breagor. also, the PR-check should be 1d20+3+2 due to EM:electricity. - this changes nothing that happened, but there's one more EM to go where it might. please move verren back into the swamp. ;) though levitate will prove useless given korwald's tactics, it's the only place i could possibly levitate high enough to be of any use against his phrenic mind thrust.
whitebaron 04-07-08, 09:17 AM	btw: waiting in the swamp, even while yelling is still delaying IMHO. Its a grey area though and its absolutely your call. well - waiting in the forest, while levitate runs out and you exactly KNOW where your opponent is - that too is delaying, right? i'd hope you see it like that :) about the delay: verren does something meaningful (cast shocking grasp) in the swamp in round 6. korwald goes to the swamp in round 11. so he was not even close to the non-cumulative delay penalty. ;) also, korwalds tactics say nothing about healing his horse. so if by improvisation korwald heals his horse, verren should realize that and only shoot on korwald as well.
lonewolf 04-07-08, 09:51 AM	well - waiting in the forest, while levitate runs out and you exactly KNOW where your opponent is - that too is delaying, right? i'd hope you see it like that :) In that situation, both are delaying and its the pitlords call who is delaying more... about the delay: verren does something meaningful (cast shocking grasp) in the swamp in round 6. korwald goes to the swamp in round 11. so he was not even close to the non-cumulative delay penalty. ;) Shocking grasp in this situation was nothing more than a buff. If you had sent Kiki looking for Korwald, the situation would be different. But youre right on the umber of rounds. I must have misread something before... also, korwalds tactics say nothing about healing his horse. so if by improvisation korwald heals his horse, verren should realize that and only shoot on korwald as well. I agree.
lonewolf 04-07-08, 09:53 AM	please move verren back into the swamp. ;) though levitate will prove useless given korwald's tactics, it's the only place i could possibly levitate high enough to be of any use against his phrenic mind thrust. If you read through the map description more closely, you will see that you cant levitate above the swamp any higher than on the rest of the map.
whitebaron 04-07-08, 10:13 AM	1) don't believe buffing is delaying. - so even if it is just mage armor + shocking grasp, it's still something meaningful to the fight, thus no delay. 2) this was added recently i believe. i remember someone flying higher than that not all that long ago. @mwb: it would be nice to see map description changes logged somewhere. this marks the second time i realize someone gets hosed by a changed map, and i believe this happens more often. a small sblock on the bottom with "changes" would be neat. @callix: the main intention for verrens levitate was to keep out of phrenic mind thrust reach. pitlords call again - Levitate above the swamp to 60'30' is max so he can only use his bow +mind thrust. - he could use his mind thrust, but not full attack - i would know what i would do - but please use your own judgement. ps: maybe ego whipping the horse would have been a better alternative - but i did not want to resort to standard cheese tactics...
McJarvis 04-07-08, 04:10 PM	RE: Those pseudo dragons: I think the CDG's wake him up, then immediately re-poison him. I didn't look at the roller to see if you rolled these extra poison-saves. Also, starting in round 13 the secondary effects of poison that he contracts should start to take effect[yet more chances to fall asleep]
whitebaron 04-07-08, 04:52 PM	RE: Those pseudo dragons: I think the CDG's wake him up, then immediately re-poison him. I didn't look at the roller to see if you rolled these extra poison-saves. Also, starting in round 13 the secondary effects of poison that he contracts should start to take effect[yet more chances to fall asleep] round 13: yes, i rolled that secondary save. (the hit was natural 20 on bite full attack) @cdg: i did cdg with bite, not sting. but it looks like that would have been the better way to do it. cdg with sting is 1 damage, with bite: 2. - i won'T change that now, as it was an obvious misbrainer of me, the pd tactics-writer/user.
Callix 04-07-08, 05:08 PM	Re the delay penalty: I would've hit you both if contact was made any later than round 11. On the EM in round 14: That was an interpretation error. Verren needed to move in round 14, but I missed the full-move clause. I had to rewrite round 14 and remove the EM. That EM is the roll for the next EM that Verren uses. On getting out the bow: Unfortunately, that is a complete abandonment of stated tactics, which are to force melee if possible. Verren is not levitating, so melee remains possible; Korwald even based Verren in round 12 IIRC. Thus, the chase continues.
whitebaron 04-07-08, 05:28 PM	Verren is not levitating, so melee remains possible; Korwald even based Verren in round 12 IIRC. Thus, the chase continues. just a note on basing in the swamp: no aoos, due to cover. that's one of those reasons why i wanted the fight to be there if possible. ;)
Callix 04-07-08, 06:23 PM	just a note on basing in the swamp: no aoos, due to cover. that's one of those reasons why i wanted the fight to be there if possible. ;) Kiki is airborne, thus no cover. In other news, the fight is done. Honestly, how did you think it would go from there? Rewards later *glares at Korwald*
whitebaron 04-07-08, 06:47 PM	@callix: thanks for the run, but: Spell Resistance: No thats the reason why i used it. ;) other news: Orgauth vs. Monster, Nodens vs. Monster take II, S'lertak vs. Sunstroke
Callix 04-07-08, 06:54 PM	@callix: thanks for the run, but: thats the reason why i used it. ;) In that case, you save some expendables and 12 seconds. Done.
lonewolf 04-07-08, 06:57 PM	All the issues I have with this fight are solely interpretation based and I have neither the time nor the energy to argue about that this week. => congrats to Verren for winning.
MindWandererB 04-07-08, 07:34 PM	S'lertak vs. SunstrokeI was going to say that there's no point in arguing with rolls like those, but there is something funny-looking. In the round 12-13 summary, Sunstroke has 22 HP. He then gets hit for 11. Suddenly he's down to 2. Should be 11, near as I can tell. Then he takes 6 and uses Vigor, bringing him to 16, then takes 8 and has 8 left. This is quite easily result-changing, if I'm reading it right.
whitebaron 04-07-08, 07:39 PM	I was going to say that there's no point in arguing with rolls like those, but there is something funny-looking. In the round 12-13 summary, Sunstroke has 22 HP. He then gets hit for 11. Suddenly he's down to 2. Should be 11, near as I can tell. Then he takes 6 and uses Vigor, bringing him to 16, then takes 8 and has 8 left, and renews Vigor again. This is quite easily result-changing, if I'm reading it right. hmm i looked at the roller now - seems i missed the hit in round 14 for 9 when copy/pasting...
MindWandererB 04-07-08, 08:02 PM	hmm i looked at the roller now - seems i missed the hit in round 14 for 9 when copy/pasting... Ah, now I see. Okay, now I can't argue with dice like those. Only one attack roll out of 11 where I got the 15 I needed.
McJarvis 04-07-08, 08:39 PM	gradak vs snaga is up
TelinArtho 04-07-08, 09:42 PM	Well - since there's no call for an edit - no need to edit this in - but Sunstroke could not take 5ft steps while entangled because his movement is hindered in round 8-11 (tanglefoot bag). Here - he'd either need to switch weapons (to something without reach) or move back and attack (drawing an AoO each time). The fight is fine by me other than that though - so no need to edit unless MWB calls for it.
dulsi 04-07-08, 11:19 PM	Shaela of the Rooftops vs. Lucifer is up minus rewards. Shaela tactics didn't work as far as I could tell so I improvised. Let me know if you disagree.
SauroGrenom 04-07-08, 11:58 PM	How many HP on a holy symbol?
SauroGrenom 04-08-08, 01:05 AM	Vargo vs Kervan is up. One comment I'd like to make is an old old gripe... I find it odd that I cannot even post the two characters in the same post. Let alone the tactics and fight. One of these character sheets has over 35,000 characters, and the max/post is only 50K... So there's no way that's going to fit with another character. The other character has 23K, there's a bit for the tactics and my fight has only 8K... Anyway it's a minor annoyance, and I like to remind people every now and then to think about being frugal with the character count on their character sheets. Raskos has three caster types, two allies, a long history, an arcane spell book, and complicated/long list of skills but his sheet has less than 14K characters. So being frugal in the face of complicated characters with allies is very possible. I have limited time to edit the fight, but I may be able to adjust things to take into consideration comments from the participants late tomorrow night.
Turanson 04-08-08, 03:08 AM	@callix: thanks for the run, but: thats the reason why i used it. ;) other news: Orgauth vs. Monster, Nodens vs. Monster take II, S'lertak vs. Sunstroke thanks for the run only one thing Nordens win but in the reward section he stands as lossing (I don't know if MWB uses this for the rating but if he don't you can just leave it as it is)
Stormwind 04-08-08, 04:00 AM	Vargo vs Kervan is up. One comment I'd like to make is an old old gripe... I find it odd that I cannot even post the two characters in the same post. Let alone the tactics and fight. One of these character sheets has over 35,000 characters, and the max/post is only 50K... So there's no way that's going to fit with another character. The other character has 23K, there's a bit for the tactics and my fight has only 8K... Anyway it's a minor annoyance, and I like to remind people every now and then to think about being frugal with the character count on their character sheets. Raskos has three caster types, two allies, a long history, an arcane spell book, and complicated/long list of skills but his sheet has less than 14K characters. So being frugal in the face of complicated characters with allies is very possible. I have limited time to edit the fight, but I may be able to adjust things to take into consideration comments from the participants late tomorrow night. @MWB: Congrats on the win. I hadn't thought of Kervan using turn undead as crowd control and I completely forgot to include tactics vs turning. Nicely done. @Sauro: No need for an edit, but just to mention the following points: (Round 3 & 4) You rolled 1d4+1 for the sunder damage, but the [Blade of Entropy] is an adamantine greatsword so damage should have been 2d6+1. (Round 3+) I can see your reasoning for improvising by using the contingency for Käsi being treated as dead. Due my lack of foresight in providing a turning contingency, I accept that my tactics did not account for this situation. I consider it a suboptimal improvisation but regardless ... My bad :(
Callix 04-08-08, 04:32 AM	Shaela of the Rooftops vs. Lucifer is up minus rewards. Shaela tactics didn't work as far as I could tell so I improvised. Let me know if you disagree. Shaela's tactics hinged on getting into one of the pillar circles; my intention would have been to have her double-move. However, this would create an unacceptable amount of extra work for you; I'll chalk this up as a loss due to poorly-written tactics. Thanks for the run. EDIT: Rewards for Korwald vs Verren are done. I think...
Stormwind 04-08-08, 04:38 AM	One comment I'd like to make is an old old gripe... I find it odd that I cannot even post the two characters in the same post. Let alone the tactics and fight. One of these character sheets has over 35,000 characters, and the max/post is only 50K... So there's no way that's going to fit with another character. The other character has 23K, there's a bit for the tactics and my fight has only 8K... Anyway it's a minor annoyance, and I like to remind people every now and then to think about being frugal with the character count on their character sheets. Raskos has three caster types, two allies, a long history, an arcane spell book, and complicated/long list of skills but his sheet has less than 14K characters. So being frugal in the face of complicated characters with allies is very possible. @Sauro: That's why I have the dotted line on her sheet so that pitlords can cut at the dotted line which reduces Varjo's sheet to 25802 chars. I try quite hard to keep the essentials of my character sheets to about 25000 characters as the upper limit.
whitebaron 04-08-08, 06:14 AM	thanks for the run only one thing Nordens win but in the reward section he stands as lossing (I don't know if MWB uses this for the rating but if he don't you can just leave it as it is) fixed. its not like it takes all day to fix that. ;) EDIT: Rewards for Korwald vs Verren are done. I think... Breagor is a heavy warhorse. => CR 2 Korwald and Verren are ECL6, so MaxCA = 6-2=4 Ally Penalty: 4/2*25% = 12.5% Korwald total: -12.5% Penalty +18% PC = 5.5% Verren: 1800*1.125 = 2025 XP // 2250 GP Korwald: 600*1.055 = 633 XP // 703 GP
CrazyArtificer 04-08-08, 06:48 AM	Thorell vs Max (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15552255&postcount=1901) is up. Sorry for the delay guys.
dulsi 04-08-08, 07:43 AM	Shaela's tactics hinged on getting into one of the pillar circles; my intention would have been to have her double-move. However, this would create an unacceptable amount of extra work for you; I'll chalk this up as a loss due to poorly-written tactics. Thanks for the run. The problem is that when you tumble out of melee you only get a half move. With three squares of movement there usually isn't any way to break LOS. Even with a double move, you can't get far enough away Lucifer would simply double move to catch you. With expeditious retreat up, you might be able to do your tactic but I don't see any way for it to work with your current speed. BTW I should of mentioned I don't think breaking LOS and readying an attack is sufficient to catch someone flat footed. I think you would need to be hidden. Any older players know how this is handled typically.
lonewolf 04-08-08, 07:44 AM	Thorell vs Max (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15552255&postcount=1901) is up. Sorry for the delay guys. While I would accept the fight as it stands, there are a couple of issues that I want to see corrected if McJarvis needs some edits: - Maxes saves should get an extra +2 because of protection from good. Additionally, he should get an extra +1 bonus to saves from surging euporia. Those two things together mean that he barely succeeds his save against stinking cloud. - Thorells actions in round 10 & 11 seem strange. It looks to me like he should be able to dive in round 11 which accelerates all his further actions for one round. - While in stinking cloud, Max has total concealment vs everyone outside. Stinking Cloud works like Fog Cloud here, so without entering the cloud, Thorell should have an even harder time hitting me.
CrazyArtificer 04-08-08, 07:58 AM	While I would accept the fight as it stands, there are a couple of issues that I want to see corrected if McJarvis needs some edits: - Maxes saves should get an extra +2 because of protection from good. Additionally, he should get an extra +1 bonus to saves from surging euporia. Those two things together mean that he barely succeeds his save against stinking cloud. I believe that the surging effect happens just after you complete casting. If I am correct, you weren't under the effect in that case, so you would fail the save by 1. I figured in the +2 in my calculations, but forgot to add it in the roller. - Thorells actions in round 10 & 11 seem strange. It looks to me like he should be able to dive in round 11 which accelerates all his further actions for one round. Correct, made some mess with copying and pasting. McJarvis, let me know if you want me to edit the fight. - While in stinking cloud, Max has total concealment vs everyone outside. Stinking Cloud works like Fog Cloud here, so without entering the cloud, Thorell should have an even harder time hitting me. True Strike ignores concealment You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.
lonewolf 04-08-08, 08:05 AM	I believe that the surging effect happens just after you complete casting. I disagree here, but I no reason to argue about it if McJarvis accepts the fight as it is.
CrazyArtificer 04-08-08, 08:15 AM	I disagree here, but I no reason to argue about it if McJarvis accepts the fight as it is. May I ask why? It may still be useful for other fights, so I think it's worth discussing :) As I read it, you begin surging while manifesting, but you take the benefits of surging euphoria only if you aren't enervated. And that happens only after manifesting, eventually. So, I think Surging Euphoria should kick in only after manifesting. Something like a "Yes, I did it.. bwahaha"
Callix 04-08-08, 08:26 AM	The problem is that when you tumble out of melee you only get a half move. With three squares of movement there usually isn't any way to break LOS. Even with a double move, you can't get far enough away Lucifer would simply double move to catch you. With expeditious retreat up, you might be able to do your tactic but I don't see any way for it to work with your current speed. BTW I should of mentioned I don't think breaking LOS and readying an attack is sufficient to catch someone flat footed. I think you would need to be hidden. Any older players know how this is handled typically. Something of a tangent point, but if you double move away, you can withdraw and take no movement penalty. This is too much of an interpretation, and is mainly why I am *not* asking for an edit. Also, my tactics were not to get somewhere Lucy couldn't base me. They were to break LOS, which is entirely different. On the readied action sneak attacks: They've worked as long as Shaela's been running. Since LOS has been broken, you're automatically considered hidden until you break/are denied cover or they spot you. They have no chance to spot you on their turn unless they get full LOS. Thus, if they move around a corner, you get to hit them flat-footed. Life's hard enough for a rogue without gimping this. Otherwise, you get what that fight had: Deflect Arrows = Dead Rogue. Also, Touchsight = Dead Rogue, Uncanny Dodge = Dead Rogue, but they don't affect this.
dulsi 04-08-08, 10:01 AM	Something of a tangent point, but if you double move away, you can withdraw and take no movement penalty. This is too much of an interpretation, and is mainly why I am *not* asking for an edit. Also, my tactics were not to get somewhere Lucy couldn't base me. They were to break LOS, which is entirely different. The problem is after he bases you even with a withdraw he is just going to base you again. In order to get an attack in you need to tumble away and break LOS with only half move. I suppose with a withdraw you might be able to put enough question about where you went that he might not be able to base you. I still think it is unlikely. (I didn't know you could double move on withdraw. I thought it was just a single move but looking it up you are right. I might have tried that if I had known.) On the readied action sneak attacks: They've worked as long as Shaela's been running. Since LOS has been broken, you're automatically considered hidden until you break/are denied cover or they spot you. They have no chance to spot you on their turn unless they get full LOS. Shouldn't they get a spot against your hide before the attack. Anyway if that is how it is done, I'll keep that in mind for the future. Since you are willing to accept the results I've put up the rewards.
whitebaron 04-08-08, 10:09 AM	I believe that the surging effect happens just after you complete casting. well, what do we have here: A wilder can choose to invoke a wild surge whenever she manifests a power. when a wilder uses her wild surge ability, she gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws for a number of rounds equal to the intensity of her wild surge. If a wilder is overcome by psychic enervation following her wild surge, she does not gain the morale bonus for this use of her wild surge ability. while (1) seems to say that the wild surge starts when starting manifesting, (2) states that you don't get the euphoria if you are enervated - and since retroactive dice-adjusting is something better left to the order of the stick, i believe the euphoria starts just after you successfully manifested the power. what also lends me towards that interpretation is the following passage: Immediately following each wild surge, a wilder may be overcome by the strain of her effort. ... if the wild surge happens before the power is completely manifested, this sentence would short-circuit any manifesting you'd try to do, basically it would break your concentration and you'd lose the power alltogether (dazed). so: RD X: Start manifesting a 1 round action with a surge +N RD X+1: End Manifesting on the start of your Initiative RD X+1+N: Surge ends on the start of your Initiative @dulsi: yes, they get spot checks against his hide (-4 hide if full move) - but that's all they can do against the sneakyness.
McJarvis 04-08-08, 10:16 AM	Dive attacks do double damage. I don't think you calculated that in there, crazy. [+15 damage in roller would be impossible] The "real" damage for those attacks should be more to the order of 4d8+30. Link (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a) If a flyer makes a diving charge of at least 30 feet (6 squares) and also loses 10 feet of altitude or more, it can attack only with a claw or with a piercing or slashing weapon. These attacks, however, deal double damage. I'm sorry I didn't mention it in my tactics- I forgot that it's been a while since anyone has used this rule. [but there have been entire characters based on it in the past, and it was clearly what I was referring to in my tactics] edit- I haven't had a chance to look through the rest of the fight, but I think that's the biggest thing that will change the fight immediately. edit #2- Another fairly serious error(because of raw damage-dealing potential) is miscalculating Thorell's to-hit value. He has... +7(normal) + 2(bulls strength) + 1(bless) + 1 (higher ground) + 2 (charging) = +13 to-hit while diving. You recorded him as only striking with a +10, and I believe this makes a miss a hit on a few strikes.
whitebaron 04-08-08, 10:33 AM	Dive attacks do double damage. I don't think you calculated that in there, crazy. [+15 damage in roller would be impossible] The "real" damage for those attacks should be more to the order of 4d8+30. I'm sorry I didn't mention it in my tactics- I forgot that it's been a while since anyone has used this rule. [but there have been entire characters based on it in the past, and it was clearly what I was referring to in my tactics] well and i have to say, again: i hate that houserule. with natural weapons it's clear why the damage is doubled, but i don't see manufactured weapons get any better from having higher speed. from a realistic standpoint, i can even see that they deal more damage, but not without any harm to the weapon. you're speaking here about a piece of metal on a stick. using excess force and speed, is more likely to break it than to deal that amount of damage repeatedly. also, if you do this with a sword like some other character, a strength check would be in order - after all, you'd need to keep the greater impact away from you and your hands as well... given that logic, a monk with speed 80 should always deal double damage when charging with a slashing weapon. i can not really see where that decision came from, really... edit @rotg-linky... well, another of those cases where rotg introduced more rules than can be found anywhere in the srd. the same series of rotgs introduced climb checks to aerial grapples... i kinda hate that guy for what he did there... instead of creating solutions, always new problems come out of those ROTG articles...
templer10 04-08-08, 10:44 AM	Due to some very unexpected Work that will leave me no time today i wont be able to run darian vs Gak, sorry about that, Tactcis followed if anyone wants to pick it up: Hi and thanks for pitlording! Darian starts in the back of his box with stones of force screen and defensive precognition in hands. Xander will start in front with potion of invisibility and stone of Vigor in hands. Round 1: Darian manifests Share Pain with crab. Xander manifests 3pp expansion. Round 2: Darian manifests defensive precognition from stone and draws dorje of vigor. Xander manifests Vigor from stone and draws stone of Force Screen. Round 3: Darian manifests Force Screen from stone and draws dorje of energy missile. Xander drinks the potion of invisibility and moves out. Round 4: Darian manifests Vigor from Dorje and follows Xander but stays 15ft behind him. Xander moves out looking for Gaknalak. Round 5: Darian activates his winged boots for increased speed. Skip this if Gakhnalak is already visible. Xander continues to move out. Darian flies after him staying 15ft behind and readies a targeted dispel psionics on Gakhnalak on sight. Xanders job is to grapple Gakhnalak with Fist of Iron directly after Darians dispel and then deal damage. Refresh Grip of Iron if necessary. If Gak has mirror images around him, shoot him once with the dorje of energy missile(electricity) before the dispel to destroy those images. After the Dispel, Darian will manifest 2x 9pp Astral Constructs with Muscle. Position them mainly to make it impossible for Gak to reach Darian but they also should attack him. After creating those constructs, Darian will refresh Vigor from dorje if necessary and then manifest a 9pp greater endowed energy current(fire) on Gaknalak and keep the concentration. If the concentration gets disrupted continue with the dorje of energy missile(fire(or electricity, if I noticed resistance to fire before)). greets lonewolf Last time I beat this guy, it was largely due to a crit. Let's see if I can do it even without. Start with scroll of See Invisibility in hand. Blurgta starts with a scroll of Resist Energy in hand. Buff Sequence: 1) See Invis (CL 2 scroll); Resist Energy on Gak (CL 2 scroll, fire) 2) Expeditious Retreat (CL 1 scroll); Resist Energy on Gak (CL 2 scoll, electricity) and draw shield. 3) Enlarge Person (CL 2 scroll), Shield of Faith on Gak. 4) Mirror Image (CL 3 scroll), Longstrider. Draw guisarme and we move out. Dollars to donuts we run into Xander first. As before, attempt Command (flee) to get him to move back, then engage Darian--make sure to delay appropriately so they can't just move back into position before I can take advantage. If I'm Large and he's not, Overrun through him. If Xander's my size and sticks to melee, we'll take him down in kind, using normal guisarme attacks from Gak and a Spiritual Weapon followed by Divine Favor + morningstar smites from Blurgta. When I can manage to close with Darian, I need to make sure I stay there. Sunder his winged boots if he's using them. Re-cast Expeditious Retreat if it gets dispelled and I'm still Enlarged. Once any speed discrepancies have been resolved, destroy Crab first if I can. Then go for Darian. Contingencies: - If Gak is grappled, my preferences on how to deal with it are, in order: Blurgta casts Freedom of Movement on Gak; Blurgta casts Touch of Madness on Xander; Gak escapes (if both are the same size); Gak attacks with armor spikes while Blurgta supports with Spiritual Weapon, Divine Favor, and morningstar smites. If Gak can escape, do it on Darian's side, of course. - If Blurgta gets grappled... well, she's pretty well out of it, but better her than Gak. She can attack in the grapple, and try a smite if it looks like it'll help. - Sunder Darian's dorje if he uses either of them. - Remember Knock-Down, though don't use it if I'm at a size disadvantage. - Ego Whip: No help for it; Blurgta will have to cast Spell Immunity on Gak if he gets hit by this. As in our last fight, I think the dice will have much to do with the outcome. Have fun and good luck.
CrazyArtificer 04-08-08, 11:17 AM	Dive attacks do double damage. I don't think you calculated that in there, crazy. [+15 damage in roller would be impossible] The "real" damage for those attacks should be more to the order of 4d8+30. I'm sorry I didn't mention it in my tactics- I forgot that it's been a while since anyone has used this rule. [but there have been entire characters based on it in the past, and it was clearly what I was referring to in my tactics] edit- I haven't had a chance to look through the rest of the fight, but I think that's the biggest thing that will change the fight immediately. edit #2- Another fairly serious error(because of raw damage-dealing potential) is miscalculating Thorell's to-hit value. He has... +7(normal) + 2(bulls strength) + 1(bless) + 1 (higher ground) + 2 (charging) = +13 to-hit while diving. You recorded him as only striking with a +10, and I believe this makes a miss a hit on a few strikes. Will fix it tonight, I'm going out right now. Two quick notes: 1) I didn't know about the existance of that rule, sorry. 2) I miscalculated because I accounted in Power Attack even in later attacks, while you weren't obviously using that.;)
McJarvis 04-08-08, 11:31 AM	Will fix it tonight, I'm going out right now. Two quick notes: 1) I didn't know about the existance of that rule, sorry. 2) I miscalculated because I accounted in Power Attack even in later attacks, while you weren't obviously using that.;) No prob. I believe you also missed a share pain powerstone that Max used. Thanks for pitlording this one, I realize that keeping track of stats on thorell must have been a pain since he had 10 spells buffed on him in addition to having situational fly manuvers going down. [and ironically, this was the "least complicated" tactic I could send out of the three or four potentials I wrote up.]
McJarvis 04-08-08, 11:51 AM	@my remaining gladiators: I'm going to be running the fight, but not until tonight. [so it will be late]
lonewolf 04-08-08, 12:03 PM	Enoch vs Flutterthought is up There were many situations where I really wasnt sure how to have combatants act and I tried my best to improvise as fairly as possible. Improvisation was necessary because tactics didnt really work as planned, but I also tried not to go too far away from them.
Salrantol 04-08-08, 12:57 PM	Enoch vs Flutterthought is up There were many situations where I really wasnt sure how to have combatants act and I tried my best to improvise as fairly as possible. Improvisation was necessary because tactics didnt really work as planned, but I also tried not to go too far away from them.Why do your dice hate Enoch's concentration??? WHY???
TelinArtho 04-08-08, 01:05 PM	Because Enoch is easily distra.... ooh Doughnut....
CrazyArtificer 04-08-08, 01:06 PM	Revised Thorell vs Max (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15554681&postcount=1903)is up. Sorry lonewolf.
Salrantol 04-08-08, 01:07 PM	Enoch vs Flutterthought is up There were many situations where I really wasnt sure how to have combatants act and I tried my best to improvise as fairly as possible. Improvisation was necessary because tactics didnt really work as planned, but I also tried not to go too far away from them.My only real objections are 1) that you summoned a dire weasel despite the intended target freely flying and 2) that you had Enoch dismount, thus making him a sitting duck.
lonewolf 04-08-08, 01:18 PM	My only real objections are 1) that you summoned a dire weasel despite the intended target freely flying and 2) that you had Enoch dismount, thus making him a sitting duck. Both of these decisions were made to give Enoch the chance to win. I dismounted Enoch to have him avoid any more concentration checks for the summons on the grappling mount(which would have been quite difficult). The decision was not easy but if I had him stay mounted and he would have failed those concentration checks while summoning, his chances to win this would have gone away completely. The Dire Weasel was summoned in the hope that the Nightmare could bring Flutterthought back to the ground fast to continue with the original tactics. Even one more round of failed Escape Artist checks for Flutterthought would have been enough for the weasel to attach and that could have been the ballgame. Those decisions werent easy and I took my time deciding them, but ultimately I completely stand behind them.
McJarvis 04-08-08, 01:26 PM	Revised Thorell vs Max (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15554681&postcount=1903)is up. Sorry lonewolf. O_O. That last damage roll liked me _alot_. It's not every day you see the potential for massive damage rules to come into play.
CrazyArtificer 04-08-08, 01:38 PM	O_O. That last damage roll liked me _alot_. It's not every day you see the potential for massive damage rules to come into play. Really a lot, indeed :) BTW, on your previous comment: it's not too hard to keep up with different spells, even if they are a lot, once you write down a few bonuses. What I found handy is that you mentioned in tactics CL and source (scroll/memory) for each spell, thus saving me quite some time flipping up and down. I encourage everyone to do the same :)
McJarvis 04-08-08, 01:39 PM	Really a lot, indeed :) BTW, on your previous comment: it's not too hard to keep up with different spells, even if they are a lot, once you write down a few bonuses. What I found handy is that you mentioned in tactics CL and source (scroll/memory) for each spell, thus saving me quite some time flipping up and down. I encourage everyone to do the same :) Yeah, I thought that would come in handy. I've noticed in my pitlording experiences that a large portion of my time is spent consulting char sheets for CL/ whether the spell in question is a scroll or not. I'm glad you appreciate the effort :)
The Dread Dormammu 04-08-08, 02:07 PM	Just a quick question for McJarvis. So the snatch arrows ability doesn't work if you are expecting an attack but cannot see the opponent?
McJarvis 04-08-08, 02:25 PM	Just a quick question for McJarvis. So the snatch arrows ability doesn't work if you are expecting an attack but cannot see the opponent? I'm assuming Snaga has a pair of those snatch arrows gloves then, eh? I'll be honest- I missed that. But I don't think it applies here. Gloves of Arrow Snaring: Once snugly worn, these gloves seem to meld with the hands, becoming almost invisible. Twice per day, the wearer can act as if he had the Snatch Arrows feat, So we turn to... When using the Deflect Arrows feat you may catch the weapon instead of just deflecting it So we turn to... You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flatfooted. Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected. There you go. You are considered flat footed while being sniped, to my knowledge.
The Dread Dormammu 04-08-08, 03:10 PM	...I'm assuming Snaga has a pair of those snatch arrows gloves then, eh?... There you go. You are considered flat footed while being sniped, to my knowledge. I thought I mentioned my gloves in my tactics "Use Gloves of arrow snaring to catch and throw back arrows or thrown weapons." See I'd looked up the other ones already actually. This last one was the one I couldn't find. I looked up sniping on the SRD but it didn't state If someone stayed flatfooted even after being sniped at multiple times. It's your call of course and I actually think you are one of the best Pitlords, so I'll trust your judgment.
MindWandererB 04-08-08, 03:12 PM	Vargo vs Kervan is up. One comment I'd like to make is an old old gripe... I find it odd that I cannot even post the two characters in the same post. Let alone the tactics and fight. One of these character sheets has over 35,000 characters, and the max/post is only 50K... So there's no way that's going to fit with another character. The other character has 23K, there's a bit for the tactics and my fight has only 8K... Anyway it's a minor annoyance, and I like to remind people every now and then to think about being frugal with the character count on their character sheets. Raskos has three caster types, two allies, a long history, an arcane spell book, and complicated/long list of skills but his sheet has less than 14K characters. So being frugal in the face of complicated characters with allies is very possible. I have limited time to edit the fight, but I may be able to adjust things to take into consideration comments from the participants late tomorrow night.@Sauro: That's why I have the dotted line on her sheet so that pitlords can cut at the dotted line which reduces Varjo's sheet to 25802 chars. I try quite hard to keep the essentials of my character sheets to about 25000 characters as the upper limit.Since Stormwind isn't complaining, there's no need for an edit, but there are some distinct oddities in that fight. Kervan isn't holding his wand, and Stormwind asked to sunder only held items. Our current rules prevent anyone from moving off the sides of a map. So Kasi would be stuck on the edge and free to return to the fray in round 13. Heal (as Harm vs. undead) deals 10 points of damage per level, not 1d10 per level. After saving for half, Varjo takes 55 damage, bringing him to the minimum of 1 HP. As for sheet length, Kervan's too is due mostly to the end part of the sheet which can be trimmed out. Cutting everything from the results on down reduces his sheet to 13K. @Stormwind: You may have missed Turn Undead, but what you really missed was Kervan's potential high AC vs. incorporeal touch attacks. That combined with Freedom of Movement made your tactics problematic. @Salrantol: Eww. Sorry, man, losing just because so many strange things came up isn't fun. I can't feel good about that one, even though I understand lonewolf's decisions.
McJarvis 04-08-08, 03:14 PM	I thought I mentioned my gloves in my tactics "Use Gloves of arrow snaring to catch and throw back arrows or thrown weapons." See I'd looked up the other ones already actually. This last one was the one I couldn't find. I looked up sniping on the SRD but it didn't state If someone stayed flatfooted even after being sniped at multiple times. It's your call of course and I actually think you are one of the best Pitlords, so I'll trust your judgment. I do so love being complimented :). Honestly, I don't quite remember where it's stated that being denied your dex bonus equates to flat-footedness(or even if it does?), but I _do_ know that monks with deflect arrows can't deflect when they are being sniped at. I'm pretty sure that seals the deal on this issue. edit- /me thinks to himself. It could have nothing to do with being flatfooted and have more to do with the "being aware of the attack" terminology, but that still prevents gloves of arrow snaring from stoping snipes.
MindWandererB 04-08-08, 03:22 PM	I do so love being complimented :). Honestly, I don't quite remember where it's stated that being denied your dex bonus equates to flat-footedness(or even if it does?), but I _do_ know that monks with deflect arrows can't deflect when they are being sniped at. I'm pretty sure that seals the deal on this issue. edit- /me thinks to himself. It could have nothing to do with being flatfooted and have more to do with the "being aware of the attack" terminology, but that still prevents gloves of arrow snaring from stoping snipes. Exactly--it's in the FAQ after having been in Ask Wizards.
Salrantol 04-08-08, 04:58 PM	Both of these decisions were made to give Enoch the chance to win. I dismounted Enoch to have him avoid any more concentration checks for the summons on the grappling mount(which would have been quite difficult). The decision was not easy but if I had him stay mounted and he would have failed those concentration checks while summoning, his chances to win this would have gone away completely. The Dire Weasel was summoned in the hope that the Nightmare could bring Flutterthought back to the ground fast to continue with the original tactics. Even one more round of failed Escape Artist checks for Flutterthought would have been enough for the weasel to attach and that could have been the ballgame.In retrospect, I completely understand the dire weasel. That was the right decision. However, if Enoch had remained mounted (or even had IC come back for him once an animal showed up), the chances of his surviving long enough for the undead to drag Flutterthought to the ground go up 1000%. Leaving a generally unbuffed buff-junkie like Enoch to go toe-to-toe against foes with a distinct advantage in melee, especially since they won't "stay dead", doesn't make any sense to me. Nothing I can do to make you change your mind, and if you still think you did the right thing, you're wrong, but post the rewards, and I'll drop the issue.
lonewolf 04-08-08, 05:16 PM	I dont know if that will make you feel any better, but I thought about Enoch remounting. But as long as it was just the warhorse, I didnt really see a dangerous threat to Enoch and just had IC keep on the offense. I even thought about having Enoch go on Full Defense instead of attacking the horse because it was the best animal that could be out there from his point of view. The moment the bear was out there I absolutely would have Enoch remount IC(or maybe even improvise to do some kind of protection vs Evil), but unfortunately for him he was grappled instantly which made that impossible. I also thought really long wether I should have Enoch do Protection vs Evil the round after he killed the horse but then decided against it. Really sorry man. I hated to see the (IMHO) better tactics get chewed by unlucky dice. Rewards are up.
Salrantol 04-08-08, 06:41 PM	Rewards are up.Does a spell lost to Concentration that was going to be Extended via a metamagic rod really count as a use of the rod?? After all, the rod reads "The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are extended as though using the Extend Spell feat." not "The wielder can attempt to cast up to three spells per day that are extended as though using the Extend Spell feat."
lonewolf 04-08-08, 06:47 PM	I think so. Just for a moment consider it to be a rod of quicken spell instead. If you use the rod to quicken the spell and you lose concentration, of course the charge should be lost, right? I dont believe that a rod of extend spell should work differently.
SauroGrenom 04-08-08, 10:28 PM	Since Stormwind isn't complaining, there's no need for an edit, but there are some distinct oddities in that fight. Kervan isn't holding his wand, and Stormwind asked to sunder only held items. Our current rules prevent anyone from moving off the sides of a map. So Kasi would be stuck on the edge and free to return to the fray in round 13. Heal (as Harm vs. undead) deals 10 points of damage per level, not 1d10 per level. After saving for half, Varjo takes 55 damage, bringing him to the minimum of 1 HP. Oh... I had no idea that there was a wall of force at the edges of the map to prevent incorporeal creatures from moving off the edges... Does this wall include a limit on the height above and below the map? Because a giant force cage would be necessary to block a fleeing incorporeal creature. Stormwind asked to sunder things in hand, and then had a request in the contingencies section to continue sundering wands on your person if none are in hand. I read that Heal spell description probably 5 times, and still kept seeing 1d10/level. Sorry for the oversight. I realize now that I also made another oversight. I have Vargo using dive touch attacks, but you can only dive with a slashing or piercing weapon. Since an incorporeal touch attack is neither, he cannot dive with it. He could charge, but then that wouldn't be in conjunction with flyby attack. Since the mistakes on sunder damage pointed out by Stormwind are not going to change any actions in the battle, or the outcome of those, and MWB isn't asking for me to edit in the heal mistake, I think I'll call this one finished for now.
McJarvis 04-09-08, 12:16 AM	Interleague is done.
whitebaron 04-09-08, 03:42 AM	Does a spell lost to Concentration that was going to be Extended via a metamagic rod really count as a use of the rod?? sure. or else why should a spell lost to concentration begone from your memory for the day? a failed manifested power draw on powerpoints? material components be lost? it's all the same thing - you expend anything you need to cast the spell when you start to do it/while you do it...
Stormwind 04-09-08, 03:57 AM	@Stormwind: You may have missed Turn Undead, but what you really missed was Kervan's potential high AC vs. incorporeal touch attacks. That combined with Freedom of Movement made your tactics problematic. Actually I didn't miss the high AC:Then Varjo will finish him off with incorporal touch attacks, only using her Blade of the night to remove any magical protections if necessary. I figured it was a no brainer that Kervan would use Freedom of movement, hence Käsi's focus on maintaining darkness. The basic plan however was simply for Varjo to sunder everything that could hurt her (much easier than trying to hit Kervan's buffed AC) and then finish Kervan off at her leisure. If Käsi would have still been around or if I had had a contingency for being turned, then keeping Kervan in the dark and destroying all his wands/weapons would have worked since Kervan couldn't do anything about the control light (except dispel it) and Käsi could have re-manifested it 15 more times. Thus when you pulled the turning out of your tactical bag of tricks you cleverly broke apart my tactics. Like I said before ... well done ;)
mucki 04-09-08, 04:16 AM	@dulsi: Thanks for the run. for future reference: I think you missed some damage on the grapples. When Lucifer establishes a grapple, he can do damage immediately, no extra check involved. About the LOS issue: CoCo rules state, that when LOS is established both characters immediatley auto-spot each other. So I do not see how this would make me flat-footed.
Callix 04-09-08, 06:18 AM	@dulsi: Thanks for the run. for future reference: I think you missed some damage on the grapples. When Lucifer establishes a grapple, he can do damage immediately, no extra check involved. About the LOS issue: CoCo rules state, that when LOS is established both characters immediatley auto-spot each other. So I do not see how this would make me flat-footed. On the LOS issue: If we have cover relative to each other, then Shaela gets a spot check to notice Lucifer and make an attack while Lucy is unaware. He does have cover. Since it's Lucifer's turn, he can't find Shaela without a move action to search or clear LOS. That's the technical argument. Practically, Shaela's going to shoot the next thing that comes around that corner. How are you going to see it coming before it's there?
Sjiggie 04-09-08, 06:43 AM	@McJarvis, Thanks for both runs (Gradak's & Valanthe's) but can you get the rewards up. One comment on Valanthe's Fight you forgot to use his chains of Defensive Posture & Personal Superiority but no need to edit those in Sjiggie
lonewolf 04-09-08, 06:45 AM	Due to some very unexpected Work that will leave me no time today i wont be able to run darian vs Gak, sorry about that, Tactcis followed if anyone wants to pick it up: Hi and thanks for pitlording! Darian starts in the back of his box with stones of force screen and defensive precognition in hands. Xander will start in front with potion of invisibility and stone of Vigor in hands. Round 1: Darian manifests Share Pain with crab. Xander manifests 3pp expansion. Round 2: Darian manifests defensive precognition from stone and draws dorje of vigor. Xander manifests Vigor from stone and draws stone of Force Screen. Round 3: Darian manifests Force Screen from stone and draws dorje of energy missile. Xander drinks the potion of invisibility and moves out. Round 4: Darian manifests Vigor from Dorje and follows Xander but stays 15ft behind him. Xander moves out looking for Gaknalak. Round 5: Darian activates his winged boots for increased speed. Skip this if Gakhnalak is already visible. Xander continues to move out. Darian flies after him staying 15ft behind and readies a targeted dispel psionics on Gakhnalak on sight. Xanders job is to grapple Gakhnalak with Fist of Iron directly after Darians dispel and then deal damage. Refresh Grip of Iron if necessary. If Gak has mirror images around him, shoot him once with the dorje of energy missile(electricity) before the dispel to destroy those images. After the Dispel, Darian will manifest 2x 9pp Astral Constructs with Muscle. Position them mainly to make it impossible for Gak to reach Darian but they also should attack him. After creating those constructs, Darian will refresh Vigor from dorje if necessary and then manifest a 9pp greater endowed energy current(fire) on Gaknalak and keep the concentration. If the concentration gets disrupted continue with the dorje of energy missile(fire(or electricity, if I noticed resistance to fire before)). greets lonewolf Last time I beat this guy, it was largely due to a crit. Let's see if I can do it even without. Start with scroll of See Invisibility in hand. Blurgta starts with a scroll of Resist Energy in hand. Buff Sequence: 1) See Invis (CL 2 scroll); Resist Energy on Gak (CL 2 scroll, fire) 2) Expeditious Retreat (CL 1 scroll); Resist Energy on Gak (CL 2 scoll, electricity) and draw shield. 3) Enlarge Person (CL 2 scroll), Shield of Faith on Gak. 4) Mirror Image (CL 3 scroll), Longstrider. Draw guisarme and we move out. Dollars to donuts we run into Xander first. As before, attempt Command (flee) to get him to move back, then engage Darian--make sure to delay appropriately so they can't just move back into position before I can take advantage. If I'm Large and he's not, Overrun through him. If Xander's my size and sticks to melee, we'll take him down in kind, using normal guisarme attacks from Gak and a Spiritual Weapon followed by Divine Favor + morningstar smites from Blurgta. When I can manage to close with Darian, I need to make sure I stay there. Sunder his winged boots if he's using them. Re-cast Expeditious Retreat if it gets dispelled and I'm still Enlarged. Once any speed discrepancies have been resolved, destroy Crab first if I can. Then go for Darian. Contingencies: - If Gak is grappled, my preferences on how to deal with it are, in order: Blurgta casts Freedom of Movement on Gak; Blurgta casts Touch of Madness on Xander; Gak escapes (if both are the same size); Gak attacks with armor spikes while Blurgta supports with Spiritual Weapon, Divine Favor, and morningstar smites. If Gak can escape, do it on Darian's side, of course. - If Blurgta gets grappled... well, she's pretty well out of it, but better her than Gak. She can attack in the grapple, and try a smite if it looks like it'll help. - Sunder Darian's dorje if he uses either of them. - Remember Knock-Down, though don't use it if I'm at a size disadvantage. - Ego Whip: No help for it; Blurgta will have to cast Spell Immunity on Gak if he gets hit by this. As in our last fight, I think the dice will have much to do with the outcome. Have fun and good luck. Has anyone time to do this one?
Salrantol 04-09-08, 07:01 AM	Thus when you pulled the turning out of your tactical bag of tricks you cleverly broke apart my tactics. Like I said before ... well done ;)There's only one reason Varjo hadn't faced this tactic before:You turn the closest turnable undead firstEnoch had beautiful tactics to rebuke Varjo & co. and slaughter their nigh-defenseless selves, right up until I realized that Infernal Charger would be the first one rebuked, and with only 2 rebuke uses, that wouldn't work out so well.
Stormwind 04-09-08, 07:25 AM	I think I considered if Enoch would use turning during his earlier fight against Varjo, but then I realized what a low turning check he would have, so I figured it was unlikely ... Yeah ... most tactics develop specific to the character and what the character has faced (or is very likely to face). Since Varjo has never fought anyone with the sun domain (greater turning 1/day), she hasn't been concerned about being turned prior to this fight. However MWB has shown her that she should be concerned, not because a normal turning can directly hurt her, but because they can work as crowd control which can have a huge impact on her tactics ...
McJarvis 04-09-08, 08:45 AM	@McJarvis, Thanks for both runs (Gradak's & Valanthe's) but can you get the rewards up. One comment on Valanthe's Fight you forgot to use his chains of Defensive Posture & Personal Superiority but no need to edit those in Sjiggie So that's what a CoPS is. I'm here thinking "Circle of Protection? This isn't mtg!" You might want to spell that out on your char sheet for dummies like me :) edit- all rewards posted. Sorry for the lateness. Life's been really rough lately...
TelinArtho 04-09-08, 09:36 AM	@McJ - I wish you had pointed out that crucial error in my tactics rather than just running with it - but not much I can do about it now. I know for a fact that a number of interleagues have been run as the lower levels treated as a party - but I will have to look up that decision (since it doesn't seem to be in the rules that I can find). Regardless - I don't see myself winning so no need to edit it further.
McJarvis 04-09-08, 09:41 AM	@McJ - I wish you had pointed out that crucial error in my tactics rather than just running with it - but not much I can do about it now. I know for a fact that a number of interleagues have been run as the lower levels treated as a party - but I will have to look up that decision (since it doesn't seem to be in the rules that I can find). Regardless - I don't see myself winning so no need to edit it further. It doesn't seem like it would have affected the fight much as is- when you made contact you guys were together, and berri fired no arrows. As far as the rules go, this is all I found. Inter-League Fight: This kind of fight works similarly to Standard or Team Fights Team Fights: .....Pitlords roll starting boxes for each PC individually regarding contacting you- if I had had time to read your tactics earlier, I would have. [I even did that for gradak this week since I got his tactics wednesday night and had some free time] Alas- I didn't get to the fight until late last night, and I decided a done fight was better than a perfect fight.
TelinArtho 04-09-08, 09:45 AM	Right - it seems that I have misremembered the rules (as is obvious from my assumption in my tactics). That said - if I had known I had the possibility of not starting in the same location, I would have cast flame arrow on Turon's arrows instead. Like I said - it wouldn't have changed the result (the extra 1d6 damage from the fire wouldn't have killed Valanthe despite the crit), but my tactics certainly would've been different. The error is certainly on me - and I can't seem to find proof that it is an error in the rules that haven't been updated. And it wouldn't have changed the result - so I'm moving on.
McJarvis 04-09-08, 10:08 AM	Right - it seems that I have misremembered the rules (as is obvious from my assumption in my tactics). That said - if I had known I had the possibility of not starting in the same location, I would have cast flame arrow on Turon's arrows instead. Like I said - it wouldn't have changed the result (the extra 1d6 damage from the fire wouldn't have killed Valanthe despite the crit), but my tactics certainly would've been different. The error is certainly on me - and I can't seem to find proof that it is an error in the rules that haven't been updated. And it wouldn't have changed the result - so I'm moving on. For what it's worth- I've never liked that rule. It seems strange that teams[which are designed to work with each other] should be given a greater advantage over individual characters who are not. Perhaps a revision is worth looking into?
dulsi 04-09-08, 10:19 AM	for future reference: I think you missed some damage on the grapples. When Lucifer establishes a grapple, he can do damage immediately, no extra check involved. Why? I looked over your character and I don't see why he would do damage on the initial grapple.
whitebaron 04-09-08, 10:26 AM	Why? I looked over your character and I don't see why he would do damage on the initial grapple. grapple states it in its description - you deal damage once when establishing the hold. @telin&mcj: you are not correct on that one. Interleague are done like the team is in fact, a registered team/party. Team-battles on the other hand, everything is rolled.
McJarvis 04-09-08, 10:37 AM	@telin&mcj: you are not correct on that one. Interleague are done like the team is in fact, a registered team/party. Team-battles on the other hand, everything is rolled. Where are you getting that from? I quoted from the rules thread exactly. Here it is again. Inter-League Fight: This kind of fight works similarly to Standard or Team Fights (and otherwise use the same rules as them), with a single character from one league being paired against one or more characters from a lower league. The most common combination of Inter-League fights is that two characters team together against one character of two levels higher than those characters of the team (e.g. ECL 5 & ECL 5 vs. ECL 7). When there is only one active character in a league, they may be paired against a character of a league higher or lower than their own (e.g. ECL 11 vs. ECL 12); in this case, the lower-ECL character gains a surprise round at the beginning of combat. Other possible, though rarer, combinations are three characters of one league vs. one character of a league three higher than them (e.g. ECL 6 & ECL 6 & ECL 6 vs. ECL 9), or one character vs. a character of one league lower than them and a character of a league three lower than them (e.g. ECL 9 & ECL 11 vs. ECL 12). Even stranger combinations can happen due to special events, such as guild activities. It is possible for two or more characters (max four) to form a party, much like an adventuring group. These characters always fight as one team; they are even listed under the party name on the roster. Parties follow all rules for Inter-League fights, and are listed and fight in a higher league equal to their number of membership (so a party with three characters fights three leagues higher than each individual character has ECL). ... Character Party Rules Here are the rules and some clarifications on how parties are handled. ... A party always starts in the same starting box. The interleague rules never reference Character Party Rules. As we have written them[and for whatever reason this was intentional by Cat, since I asked him about it when he wrote them], interleague fights are handled very differently from Character-Party fights.
dulsi 04-09-08, 10:38 AM	grapple states it in its description - you deal damage once when establishing the hold. Hmm... you're right. I even did it that way with Sunstroke's battle I ran awhile ago. That would have made the match faster. I hate the grappling rules.
TelinArtho 04-09-08, 10:54 AM	@mcj - rewards are off. Berri and Vallgar are both ECL5, Valanthe is ECL7 with a 25% ally penalty. ECL7 rewards would be 2100xp - 25% = 1575xp/1950gp. (1:1.2381 ratio) ECL5 rewards would be 500xp + 25% = 625xp/666gp. (1:1.0667 ratio)
McJarvis 04-09-08, 11:00 AM	@mcj - rewards are off. Berri and Vallgar are both ECL5, Valanthe is ECL7 with a 25% ally penalty. ECL7 rewards would be 2100xp - 25% = 1575xp/1950gp. (1:1.2381 ratio) ECL5 rewards would be 500xp + 25% = 625xp/666gp. (1:1.0667 ratio) Thanks telin. I'm not sure where I got the previous numbers from at all.. :(
TelinArtho 04-09-08, 11:01 AM	For what its worth - I don't either :P
Sjiggie 04-09-08, 11:07 AM	So that's what a CoPS is. I'm here thinking "Circle of Protection? This isn't mtg!" You might want to spell that out on your char sheet for dummies like me :) edit- all rewards posted. Sorry for the lateness. Life's been really rough lately... Thanks for posting the rewards. As far as my chains go on several places on my character sheet it is spelled out (Ability scores, special abilities, Class info) I only used it under attacks grapple and HP lines to fit it all into one line on the character sheet. Next time I will mention it clearly in the tactics doesn't matter now since it was fight 3 for him after all. Sjiggie
whitebaron 04-09-08, 11:11 AM	The interleague rules never reference Character Party Rules. As we have written them[and for whatever reason this was intentional by Cat, since I asked him about it when he wrote them], interleague fights are handled very differently from Character-Party fights. yet, any interleague fight i have been in so far has been run that way. and it is much fairer like that. higher ecl has so many advantages already... with teams of the same ecl, it adds a certain randomness, since it can happen to both parts. e.g. in an interleague, you do not roll for allies of the higher level char to end up randomly in another square either... even if the rules don't explicitly state that, i always believed (and this was the way it was handled in all my il-fights) that such a team would be treated like a character party. for what it's worth: i don't believe in an uber-cat doing everything intentionally. it's equally likely he simply wrote the rules and didn't want to change them because he did not see any necessity to do so. (IL are rare enough for people to actively complain against that anyway)
TelinArtho 04-09-08, 11:11 AM	@McJ - one last thing - please note Vallgar's prebuffs: Recall Ghoul Touch with a PoP (2nd) Recall Shield, Chill Touch and Ray of Enfeeblement with 3 PoP (1st).
McJarvis 04-09-08, 11:14 AM	yet, any interleague fight i have been in so far has been run that way. and it is much fairer like that. higher ecl has so many advantages already... with teams of the same ecl, it adds a certain randomness, since it can happen to both parts. e.g. in an interleague, you do not roll for allies of the higher level char to end up randomly in another square either... even if the rules don't explicitly state that, i always believed (and this was the way it was handled in all my il-fights) that such a team would be treated like a character party. for what it's worth: i don't believe in an uber-cat doing everything intentionally. it's equally likely he simply wrote the rules and didn't want to change them because he did not see any necessity to do so. (IL are rare enough for people to actively complain against that anyway) Like I said- it was very intentional on his part, and he even clarified that it was exactly what he meant. One thing I noticed about Cat was that he very much cared about the "RP" behind the arena. It is possible that he thought it was dumb to have two non-teammates start in the same square, and that for "RP purposes" they should start in different squares. I can counter your "it's been run that way every time I've seen it" argument with not only "It's been run that way every time I've seen it", but "I've run it that way every time I've run it" and "I've complained about it fairly often and been ignored." :)
Sjiggie 04-09-08, 11:25 AM	McJarvis the rewards for Gradak vs Snaga are off the should be Gradak +1500xp and +1600gp Snaga +500xp and +533gp
TelinArtho 04-09-08, 11:32 AM	Just to get the "what I remembered" out of the way, I went back and looked at how I've run them before. I am disappointed (in myself) to say that I have run it inconsistently: 7 Interleague fights 2 of them were run as if the characters were a party (ie - start in the same block automatically) 1 was a surrender before rolls were made 4 were run with the starting locations randomly assigned for each individual (with the possibility of the teammates starting in the same place). What's worse is that I haven't been consistent from one fight to the next... (I think the 3rd one I ran with them "as a party" and then the 6th one (or something like that). Might help to have this clarified once and for all in the council (or petition for a change to be made if that is necessary).
whitebaron 04-09-08, 12:30 PM	well mcj, if it was a rp point , there should be a mention that you should NOT write tactics together, which in my opinion results in an even safer loss. it already only works out if the lower level characters have at least one aspect on the stone rock scissors game against the higher ecl - if they don't, they lose. while it might be nice to have something work out on a RP-field - i rather have a fair fight instead. for rp, we go questing or play tabletop - coco is first and most about the arena - testing out skills and tactics on an EVEN field. and that's the problem - the field is not even if you start in different squares but yet are required to function as a team. WW would never have been able to fight properly with such rules present - and i wonder how an ad-hoc team should work any better like that ...
The Dread Dormammu 04-10-08, 04:04 PM	..."being aware of the attack" terminology, but that still prevents gloves of arrow snaring from stoping snipes. Gug, You know those video games where you snipe one of the guards, and the other guard, standing right next to him gets splattered with his blood but doesn't move or react at all? That's what this fight reminds me of. Snaga just stands there as a number of arrows thunk down around him. Doesn't he see the arrows as they sail through the air towards him? Doesn't he see the arrows sticking out of the ground with their feathers pointing back towards where Tumblebelly is hiding? Why doesn't he head towards that corner, or hide himself? Rereading my tactics I see that I say Snaga will wait until he cannot wait any longer or until tumble belly approaches then he will run until close enough to move and cast hold person. But that was assuming that Aiewaie hadn't found him yet, Snaga was just waiting as long as he could until he knew where his foe was. Doesn't he have a pretty good idea of where his foe is when the first arrow lands? Can I just get some clarification on what I did wrong? Basically I'm not sure if it's "You can't find a sniper" or "your tacitcs were unclear."
McJarvis 04-10-08, 04:14 PM	Gug, You know those video games where you snipe one of the guards, and the other guard, standing right next to him gets splattered with his blood but doesn't move or react at all? That's what this fight reminds me of. Snaga just stands there as a number of arrows thunk down around him. Doesn't he see the arrows as they sail through the air towards him? Doesn't he see the arrows sticking out of the ground with their feathers pointing back towards where Tumblebelly is hiding? Why doesn't he head towards that corner, or hide himself? Rereading my tactics I see that I say But that was assuming that Aiewaie hadn't found him yet, Snaga was just waiting as long as he could until he knew where his foe was. Doesn't he have a pretty good idea of where his foe is when the first arrow lands? Can I just get some clarification on what I did wrong? Basically I'm not sure if it's "You can't find a sniper" or "your tacitcs were unclear." In order to tell where the arrows are coming from you have to either spot the sniper or make a simple listen check opposed by his move silently check(the move silently check is made at a -20). Unfortuantely for you the distances involved made these checks impossible. So snaga waited because the only tactic I had to go on was "when I see him -> Do this" "hide while familiar looks for him -> I want to run towards him asap". That tells me you want to hide until you know where he is, then run towards him asap. In general, my "basic style" of writing tactics always includes "moving out" as a general tactic when I have nothing else to do. Of course, knowing your pitlord helps too- I for one don't do very much improv in my tactic reading. I know other pitlords that would have immediately had you drop prone/start fighting defensively, or something of that nature. Another bit of advice on a map like this against an opponent with the ambush tactic would be to start off prone(you're allowed to do that!) for an extra +4 AC just so he can't get off an alpha strike. Not nearly enough people seem to understand that you can start off prone.
The Dread Dormammu 04-10-08, 07:16 PM	Not nearly enough people seem to understand that you can start off prone. Sound advice, thanks.