Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sindorin 03-02-05, 02:57 PM	Ein Stunde noch... Remember to BE NICE!!!
OdinTheReaper 03-02-05, 03:19 PM	Si'
Sindorin 03-02-05, 03:44 PM	Funfzehn minuten...
OdinTheReaper 03-02-05, 04:03 PM	Uhhhhh.....Si"? Hey i would like to point out something to the pitlords account..Odin Soulbringer's record should read 4-3...not 3-3. That will also change his power level etc etc.. Thanks
Sindorin 03-02-05, 04:06 PM	Uhhhhh.....Si"? Hey i would like to point out something to the pitlords account..Odin Soulbringer's record should read 4-3...not 3-3. That will also change his power level etc etc.. Thanks Things have been hectic since Ashenai is MIA and Cat is doing the best that he can. I would send a PM, but it is a trivial thing, the power rankings. I had noticed a similar mistake on Sokai's sheet, and the reason I made sure it was fixed was because I did not want people asking where Sokai got the extra 4th level loss worth of gp/exp.
Sindorin 03-02-05, 04:08 PM	by the way... *manifests time regression ML5* TIME'S UP!!! Stop editing the bedsheets, I mean the sheets.
OdinTheReaper 03-02-05, 04:09 PM	Things have been hectic since Ashenai is MIA and Cat is doing the best that he can. I would send a PM, but it is a trivial thing, the power rankings. I had noticed a similar mistake on Sokai's sheet, and the reason I made sure it was fixed was because I did not want people asking where Sokai got the extra 4th level loss worth of gp/exp. I sent a pm to the account concerning my record. I also did not want people to be wandering about how i recieved 1200 extra gold and exp.lol. I have to go clean the pool :banghead: :tantrum: :censored: :rant:
Sindorin 03-02-05, 04:11 PM	I sent a pm to the account concerning my record. I also did not want people to be wandering about how i recieved 1200 extra gold and exp.lol. I have to go clean the pool :banghead: :tantrum: :censored: :rant: Watch out for Mer-Man :eek:
spasheridan 03-02-05, 04:20 PM	SO.. Fineal's match finished about 20 minutes before time was up to stop editing sheets. I would like to have him purchase a few things (namely a wand of entangle and replace the potion he used). Before I buy the wand I want to ask a quick question on it though... SO, is this possible or is he not allowed to spend any cash before his fight?
T'Var 03-02-05, 04:24 PM	SO.. Fineal's match finished about 20 minutes before time was up to stop editing sheets. I would like to have him purchase a few things (namely a wand of entangle and replace the potion he used). Before I buy the wand I want to ask a quick question on it though... SO, is this possible or is he not allowed to spend any cash before his fight? Dont edit your sheet. instead PM the Pitlord account what you want to buy before you are paired that way the Pitlord account can relay that info to your fightlord and he can relay it to you opponent
Beldin 03-02-05, 04:40 PM	Ein Uhr noch... wrong! Eine Stunde noch...
Sindorin 03-02-05, 04:48 PM	Ein Uhr noch... wrong! Eine Stunde noch... So ein Mist! It really has been a long time since I studied Deutsch... I think I am starting to forget things :(
Beldin 03-02-05, 05:09 PM	I get the same feelings when I try to speak English... :rolleyes:
Snommelp 03-02-05, 05:18 PM	At least you still remember some Deutch, Sindorin. All I can really remember is pronunciation. Speaking of which, could a German speaker help me quickly? In one of my choirs we are singing a piece by Haendel. It goes on for a while about "Natur gab Stiere Hoerner, Sie gab den Rossen Hufe... den Loewen weite Rachen." Now, it's written "Rachen," but we're singing "Raschen." Which is correct?
Aramil Dunskar 03-02-05, 05:41 PM	Erm... with my extensive study of German in HS, all of 3 years....., I would have to say Rachen, just like it is spelled. Though I could and probably am wrong. ;)
Pitlords 03-02-05, 05:50 PM	Paarungen sind fertig (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5179877#post5179877) Send tactics early so that your fight can be run early. Pitlords may begin running fights without tactics on saturday. Deadline for fights is Tuesday 8 AM GMT. Late penalties after the deadline and 2 weeks probation. Last week, we saw some good stories. Honourable mentionings deserves OWA's two stories Rex vs Tianis and Korn vs Odin. Together they are worth a credit. Also Sindorin's Nell vs Elishar has earned a place here aswell as Huan's Roy vs Mustang and Dalton's long and epic story ...oh wait, that was his tactic :D But all these stories pale against Huan's Relics of War: A new darkness which is in my opinion his best story so far! If you haven't read it I strongly suggest you do it as soon as possible; you'd miss an awesome storytelling experience. Huan, we love you!!! :bow: This story has been added to the World Thread. I gladly announce that MysticMonk2005 has - after almost a year - finally managed to get his account back into the positive! Congratulations!! Another thing... Sindorin gave me an idea. We are a multicultural board so what about writing some headlines and other things in a "Language of the Week"? This language is then being used here and there during the week; I think we can all learn some new words from that. Perhaps we could also post some pictures of this country or tell a story, I don't know, just making it a topic for this week. In order to help me out a bit you could write your home country in your profile so that it appears in the upper right corner. That way I can see which countries we have and I am sure there are other guys here than Germans and Americans. So what do you think? Anyway, viel Glueck mit euren Kaempfen :) Cat Credit Changes: Credits for Active Characters and Quests: -1: Snommelp, Jindl, Kaigan Credits for Pitlording/Questlording: +3: Huan, Kaigan +2: Caterane, T'Var, Pittbull, Sindorin, OWA, Snommelp +1: Cellardweller, TaggIIV, Einzelgaenger, Beldin, Mysticmonk, Spasheridan, and *tatatataaaa* Jindl! Special Credits: +1: Caterane (admin), Huan (story), OWA (story) Total Credit Changes: +4: Huan +3: Caterane, OWA +2: T'Var, Pittbull, Sindorin, Kaigan +1: Cellardweller, Einzelgaenger, TaggIIV, Beldin, Mysticmonk, Spasheridan, Jindl, Snommelp @Odin: your powerrating is correct. I just forgot to add a win. @Snommelp: Rachen is correct. @Spash: your late edit is ok. Your fight was up only a few minutes ago and you didn't know whom you fight.
Sindorin 03-02-05, 05:54 PM	Yes, I figured that Huan's awesome story would prevent me from getting a credit... :)
Snommelp 03-02-05, 06:07 PM	Rachen... good to know @ One_Winged_Angel: could you roll initiative for Snomm vs. Zaq? It's the first time I've ever asked that, but for this fight I'd like to know.
Pitlords 03-02-05, 06:08 PM	Damon Tharkis (Cellardweller) vs Aeluath Dryearraheal (Kaigan): Spasheridan has been added to the Roster. Kaigan -1, Spasheridan +1
spasheridan 03-02-05, 06:40 PM	Kaigan & Tagg - I've sent you tactics for Fyhir & Finael Hook me up with your tactics folks, I'll start running friday. :)
TaggIIV 03-02-05, 06:45 PM	Tactics PMd to OWA for Zak, working on Makars which will be off shortly. Recieved tactics from spash edit: aand.. makars have been PMd to einzelgaenger as for the language of the week.. i guess i wouldnt mind as long as were not speaking foreign languages on anything pertinent.. i dont like running to a translator for alll the posts ;p (im monolingual. mad skillls.)
Megrim_Lord 03-02-05, 07:03 PM	Trokk's Tactics PMed to Caterane as of now :)
Sindorin 03-02-05, 07:42 PM	Tactics for Sokai and Ceres have been sent to their pitlords for this week. Nanaleigh informs me that she wrote and sent tactics for Alexis earlier. I have not received tactics for Rook Devange Risal Atess Eniolyssaryn the Elder Derth I like to be quick about this, but I will give ample time to get tactics in (saturday). Good hunting!
Jindl 03-02-05, 08:07 PM	@Cat - Thanks for remembering the +1 for Questlording (the WLD). But I think my net credit change should be +0, not +1 ;)
cellardweller 03-02-05, 08:35 PM	Tactics Status Jannelle - sent via PM Damon - sent via email Gabriel (init "3"+x) - received Vyncent (init "5"+x) - received
Snommelp 03-02-05, 08:43 PM	Tactics recieved from xanadu. More on this story as it develops.
Kaigan 03-02-05, 08:59 PM	Tactics received from spash for Fyhir
One_Winged_Angel 03-02-05, 10:18 PM	Tactics PMd to OWA for Zak, working on Makars which will be off shortly. Recieved tactics from spash edit: aand.. makars have been PMd to einzelgaenger as for the language of the week.. i guess i wouldnt mind as long as were not speaking foreign languages on anything pertinent.. i dont like running to a translator for alll the posts ;p (im monolingual. mad skillls.) Got 'em. As per request: Zaq: 8+2=10 Snom: 6+3=9 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?u=Snomvs.Zaq&limit=on) Wow. bit low there...
Huan 03-02-05, 10:26 PM	@Sindorin, Caterane Your initiative is here (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=Uhmen_vs_Ceres): Uhmentarymster: 8 Ceres: 12 And, tactics for Celes received. @All Thank you all very much in feedback for the the story, sorry for the wait time on it, and I hope you all enjoyed it (a few typos and grammar mistakes aside -_-; ). Though I cannot pull stories of that magnitude every week (unless inspiration hits hard, heh heh), I can do it upon request (or at least try really hard to ;) ). Si alguien habla espanol, yo puedo, tambien. Creo que una semana, que todos los mensajes son en espanol, sea chulo ... si no, confuso para algunos. :D
OdinTheReaper 03-02-05, 10:39 PM	AHHH the German is confusing me. The only german i know is very inappropriate...right Sindorin?? lol
Sindorin 03-03-05, 12:47 AM	lol, I know Cat's intentions are good with the whole 'language of the week' idea, but things are really truly confusing when people are using three different languages. Don't make me start posting in Al Bhed, and also the next thing we know OWA will start posting l337 on here...
xanadu 03-03-05, 02:06 AM	Tactics recieved from xanadu. More on this story as it develops. <---- Feels like he is out of the loop :embarrass
Snommelp 03-03-05, 02:15 AM	<---- Feels like he is out of the loop :embarrass That's just me being weird. I was going to say something about the tactics not being musical enough, but changed my mind.
Pittbull 03-03-05, 05:37 AM	Tactic has been sent for: - Boraxx to MysticMonk via E-Mail - KoRn to Snommelp via PM. Thanks a lot for running!
Beldin 03-03-05, 06:31 AM	I will not be able to run a fight this week. I hope someone else can take over my fight.
Pitlords 03-03-05, 06:58 AM	Nell Leonne (Huan) vs Keth'Arian'Kari (One_Winged_Angel) has been reassigned to TaggIIV Beldin -1, TaggIIV +1 credit
T'Var 03-03-05, 08:04 AM	Init Grakk 15+3=18 GrandElf 12+3=15
Pittbull 03-03-05, 09:04 AM	That's how it works: Early tactics, early fights! Mer-Man vs. Alexis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5575695&postcount=1346) is posted!
Caterane 03-03-05, 10:09 AM	You can't attack with your trident, I know, I fought Mer-Man twice, but was the first time I realy read the part in the SRD. The discription of Blood-Frenzy says:Once per day a sahuagin that takes damage in combat can fly into a frenzy in the following round, clawing and biting madly until either it or its opponent is dead. It gains +2 Constitution and +2 Strength, and takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. A sahuagin cannot end its frenzy voluntarily. I would say he's not concious enough to use a weapon. Of course this topic has to be dicussed, another question is can he fly into frenzy, without getting damage, as You want in your tactics. But do not to forget that the discription says he "can" fly into frenzy, he needs not! I ruled it my way in this fight, if there are concerns, please let me know, I will change it immedeatly. I think you take this a bit too litteraly here. Frenzy is similar to rage only that rage grants +4 instead of +2. Since you can easily wield a weapon in rage, I don't think that the lesser rage (frenzy) prevents this.
cellardweller 03-03-05, 10:27 AM	The rules lawer in me says that we are all about literal interpretations here and that this should be applied. On the other hand, the human in me says it is a pointless and uncecissary nerf which adds nothing to CoCo environment and is based entirely on flavour text. Man this fence is uncomfortable.
Caterane 03-03-05, 10:38 AM	Rules Lawyer or not, we can't ignore common sense and go by the very word (btw, is Motherbast around??) else we have to change obvious rules because there's always a word that can be interpreted differently. I still remember when Motherbast thought you can apply Mobility even if you don't leave your square because he put the emphasize on "moving WITHIN a threatening range". Sure, if I swing a sword at you I still "move within" your threatening range so mobility applies :looloo: Still Rules-Lawyer?
cellardweller 03-03-05, 10:47 AM	Ah, but "move" is a clearly defined dnd term which MB wasn't using.
Caterane 03-03-05, 10:55 AM	LOL or here another Motherbaster: fly to the ceiling so that the opponoment follows, then cast hideous laughter on him. If he fails he falls prone which he can only be on the ground thus he takes 15d6 falling damage. Litteral interpretation. Anyway, I think you know what I mean CD. Sometimes there are things that are clear and obvious. I have seen enough crazy people swinging things they could grab in a mad rage so obviously being out of control doesn't mean you cannot use things to bash at someone. Besides, what happens if I still choose to keep my trident? Am I prevented from attacking? Or attack with ...uh -4? -2? -x? Do I drop it? (it's clearly not written that you drop everything you hold!) Does the universe explode? :confused: Edit: Or what about that: I have a shield, a trident, and a helmet. Now I cannot attack with neither talons nor bite. Do I just stand around being in frenzy, or do I use the trident I am holding? According to your interpretation I'll just stand there and cannot attack despite being in frenzy and having a very dangerous weapon in hand.
Huan 03-03-05, 11:22 AM	@Sindorin Tactics for Rook sent. @TaggIIV Tactics for Nell sent. @Caterane Revised tactics for Uhmentarymster received, thank you.
Jindl 03-03-05, 11:27 AM	I don't see a problem with using the trident. The phrase "clawing and biting madly" seems like fluff to me. However, I think the frenzy ability is clear when it says the only time you can use it is on a round after you have taken damage. Of course, you can always inflict 1 pt of damage on yourself to trigger the ability. (Wouldn't that make a cool image ... "Mer-man draws a line of blood across his chest with the tip of his claw, and a wild fury begins to come over his features...")
Pittbull 03-03-05, 11:44 AM	Summary to Blood Frenzy: You to take damage (biting on your tongue as a free action might be possible) and, shwoobidiwoop, you are frenzy! But you don't need to go frenzy, when you take damage! Further, you can use all kind weapons! Everybody OK with that?
Zepher 03-03-05, 12:02 PM	@Einzelgaenger Tactics for Kiyo sent, lord help him.
T'Var 03-03-05, 12:13 PM	That's how it works: Early tactics, early fights! Mer-Man vs. Alexis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5575695&postcount=1346) is posted! something noone else has pointed out is the rules under Grapple Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a –4 penalty on such attacks. You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons. you cannot make 3 attacks in the grapple, only a single claw or bite, but not claw, claw, and bite
Caterane 03-03-05, 12:21 PM	@T'Var: I didn't even mention grapple in my tactics. I know I cannot use my natural attacks in place of a grapple check but I have three tries to start a grapple, provided I ever want to do such a thing.
T'Var 03-03-05, 12:27 PM	EDIT never freeking mind....Pitbull make some better mention that the grapple failed....hard as heck to read that
Caterane 03-03-05, 12:35 PM	@T'Var: I didn't even mention grapple in my tactics. I know I cannot use my natural attacks in place of a grapple check but I have three tries to start a grapple, provided I ever want to do such a thing. Your quote refers to already being in a grapple
T'Var 03-03-05, 12:36 PM	Your quote refers to already being in a grapple ya read my post above. though you WERE in a grapple that last round
Nanaleigh 03-03-05, 12:37 PM	Yes, T'Var is right, I have a hard time making out whether Alexis controlled that grapple or not - if she controlled, then the crit would not have been able to be made, right? Anyway, I am getting tired of Alexis so I might try something new soon. Good fight, Caterane :)
T'Var 03-03-05, 12:40 PM	Yes, T'Var is right, I have a hard time making out whether Alexis controlled that grapple or not - if she controlled, then the crit would not have been able to be made, right? Anyway, I am getting tired of Alexis so I might try something new soon. Good fight, Caterane :) no if you were grappled the first crit still happened, just not the other 2 attacks
Nanaleigh 03-03-05, 12:42 PM	no if you were grappled the first crit still happened, just not the other 2 attacks Oh okay. I guess I am just not used to a feat like multiattack or natural weapons.
Sindorin 03-03-05, 01:04 PM	I have recieved two sets of tactics, one from vipergtsmk, and another from Huan. Sadly, these two sets are not paired against each other :)
Jindl 03-03-05, 01:15 PM	Summary to Blood Frenzy: You to take damage (biting on your tongue as a free action might be possible) and, shwoobidiwoop, you are frenzy! But you don't need to go frenzy, when you take damage! Further, you can use all kind weapons! Everybody OK with that? Yes, but you cannot deal controlled damage (ie. limited to 1 hp) with a free action (not even to yourself). It will take a standard action. Of course, you could use a free action to fall off your horse (taking 1d6 damage) but then you'd be prone and you may end up taking more than the required 1 hp.
Pittbull 03-03-05, 01:25 PM	Cool idea, Jindl! OK, let's take this as official CoCo-rules for frenzying. @T'Var: I edited the post. Now it's easier to see that the grapple failed. ;) Sorry for that.
Sindorin 03-03-05, 01:34 PM	Heh, with Cat's tactics, that Mer-Man fight had the potential for a hilarious story if the fight had gone differently (imagine mer man running away with alexis' longbow with her chasing after him... funny funny) EDIT: I wanted to be a gentleman and write simple tactics but seeing Nanaleighs build I need to pull a lot more out of my bag of tricks than that. Seems like she might avenge Sindorin's defeat with Ceres Congratulations on a good character. Did you notice that Huan graciously posted our initiative for Ceres vs. Uhme? :D
Pittbull 03-03-05, 01:40 PM	Yes, Nanaleigh's brave, but risky tactic saved us from this! ;) :D
Sindorin 03-03-05, 01:43 PM	Yes, Nanaleigh's brave, but risky tactic saved us from this! ;) :D I honestly think she didn't know what else to do :D
Jindl 03-03-05, 01:45 PM	I have recieved two sets of tactics, one from vipergtsmk, and another from Huan. Sadly, these two sets are not paired against each other :) If you would be so kind as to roll Init for the Elder and Derth, I could probably get those tactics to you soon...
Pittbull 03-03-05, 01:47 PM	But it has been a realy cool idea! I wasn't so creative and lost two times against the "Fischkopf"! Edit: "Fischkopf"= Bavarian slang for people who come from nothern Germany @Cat:Of course Mer-Man was ment, no you! :)
Sindorin 03-03-05, 01:52 PM	If you would be so kind as to roll Init for the Elder and Derth, I could probably get those tactics to you soon... I will be able to do that in about two hours, I am at school and I have one more class, then I will be able to head home where everything is set up and ready to go. I should have posted it, but viper sent his tactics pretty quick and i didn't think it would be fair if i posted initiative for you after his tactics were sent.
spasheridan 03-03-05, 04:11 PM	@Cat - about merman. Can you really have an attack sequence of Trident / claw / bite? I thought that you can either go with wpn attacks and a secondary (trident / bite) or with primary and secondary attacks (claw / claw / bite).
Sindorin 03-03-05, 04:18 PM	Derth vs. The Elder Initiative: EtE: 13+1 = 14 Derth: 16+3 = 19
T'Var 03-03-05, 04:18 PM	@Cat - about merman. Can you really have an attack sequence of Trident / claw / bite? I thought that you can either go with wpn attacks and a secondary (trident / bite) or with primary and secondary attacks (claw / claw / bite). you can go trident claw bite, but you would need TWF and Multi-attack or suffer some serious negitives i havent looked over Mer-Mans sheet to know if he has those feats without TWF it would be -6/-10 to hit and without Multi attack the bite is at -5 with both feats however the peneltys are only -2/-2/-2
Megrim_Lord 03-03-05, 04:19 PM	@Cat - about merman. Can you really have an attack sequence of Trident / claw / bite? I thought that you can either go with wpn attacks and a secondary (trident / bite) or with primary and secondary attacks (claw / claw / bite). from what I understand your wielded weapon is considered your primary attack, and all of your natural attacks secondary, however wielding a weapon with 2 hands negates the possibility of using a claw attack, so you would have to be onehanding the trident
Megrim_Lord 03-03-05, 04:21 PM	you can go trident claw bite, but you would need TWF and Multi-attack or suffer some serious negitives i havent looked over Mer-Mans sheet to know if he has those feats without TWF it would be -6/-10 to hit and without Multi attack the bite is at -5 with both feats however the peneltys are only -2/-2/-2 TWF penalties don't apply when interchanging weapon attacks with natural attacks or natural attacks with other natural attacks IIRC multi attack penalties do still apply in the above case though
T'Var 03-03-05, 04:23 PM	from what I understand your wielded weapon is considered your primary attack, and all of your natural attacks secondary, however wielding a weapon with 2 hands negates the possibility of using a claw attack, so you would have to be onehanding the trident looking over Mer-Mans sheet he doesnt have To Weapon Fighting so if he makes an attack round with a trident And claw he should suffer -6 to trident and -10 to the claw.
T'Var 03-03-05, 04:25 PM	TWF penalties don't apply when interchanging weapon attacks with natural attacks or natural attacks with other natural attacks IIRC multi attack penalties do still apply in the above case though Claw/Claw doesnt suffer without TWF but Manufactured weapon/Natural weapon do
Megrim_Lord 03-03-05, 04:37 PM	Claw/Claw doesnt suffer without TWF but Manufactured weapon/Natural weapon do are you sure? for some reason I don't remember that as the case... maybe I'm just rusty on TWF rules
spasheridan 03-03-05, 04:42 PM	I've always been really sure that the rules are a simple choice, either you attack with your weapon or you attack with your claws. Bites (secondary attacks) are allowed at -5 (-2 if u have multiattack) in either case. The TWF / Claw idea is probably a mix-up with the way a monk can flurry / TWF with monk weapons.
Jindl 03-03-05, 04:49 PM	Cat's right. It is: Trident (one-handed) at full bonus, Talon (secondary) at -5, Bite (secondary) at -5. The Trident gets 1x Str damage, the talon and bite both get 0.5 x Str damage. He does not need TWF or Multiattack for this attack routine. Indeed, TWF has NO EFFECT on this routine. Multiattack would be nice, because it would reduce the penalties to for the claw and bite to -2 instead of -5. Primary natural attacks can always be used as secondary natural attacks. All secondary natural attacks are available in addition to your weapon attacks, unless the physical body part used to make the natural attack is occupied with another task (such as wielding the trident, holding a shield, etc.) For Example: With a Bab +6, Str 14, a +1 trident, and the Multiattack feat, Mer-man's full attack would be: +9 Trident (1d8+3), +4 Trident (1d8+3), +6 Talon (1d4+1), +6 Bite (1d4+1). -Jindl
T'Var 03-03-05, 04:54 PM	Primary natural attacks can always be used as secondary natural attacks. All secondary natural attacks are available in addition to your weapon attacks, unless the physical body part used to make the natural attack is occupied with another task (such as wielding the trident, holding a shield, etc.) -Jindl hmm...well your more often right than wrong but Jindl but can you quote the source?
spasheridan 03-03-05, 05:00 PM	CHeck all the monsters (humanoid) in the MM. Like Giants. They all have slam attacks. Or vampires. THey also can wield a club / axe / shar stick. If Jindl is correct then they can all pick up their sharp stick and get the stick AND the slam attack at the same time. WHen you read the full attack of a giant it reads Slam OR Club, not Club & SLam. I think perhaps this ruling of yours is not correct Jindl...
Jindl 03-03-05, 05:13 PM	How is the giant making a slam attack when his hands are wielding the club? The body part used to make the slam is occupied. Now read the Half-Dragon entry in the SRD: Full Attack: A half-dragon fighting without weapons uses both claws and its bite when making a full attack. If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack and its bite as a natural secondary attack. If it has a hand free, it uses a claw as an additional natural secondary attack. This is exactly the attack routine I described for Mer-man wielding a one-handed trident. Since the MM glossary isn't in the SRD, and I don't have my book here at work, I can't quote the Natural Attacks entry there. But I think this is discussed there as well.
spasheridan 03-03-05, 05:16 PM	Color me corrected! Go natural attacks! So the 1/2 dragon with a BAB of 11 gets: Sword +11, +6, +1, Claw +6, Bite +6 WoW!
T'Var 03-03-05, 05:22 PM	How is the giant making a slam attack when his hands are wielding the club? The body part used to make the slam is occupied. Now read the Half-Dragon entry in the SRD: This is exactly the attack routine I described for Mer-man wielding a one-handed trident. Since the MM glossary isn't in the SRD, and I don't have my book here at work, I can't quote the Natural Attacks entry there. But I think this is discussed there as well. actually the entry you are looking for is in Subtypes and special abilitys Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual –5 penalty (or –2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon
Arstimis 03-03-05, 06:37 PM	@ Caterane: Tactics sent via E-mail
cellardweller 03-03-05, 06:45 PM	LOL or here another Motherbaster: fly to the ceiling so that the opponoment follows, then cast hideous laughter on him. If he fails he falls prone which he can only be on the ground thus he takes 15d6 falling damage. Litteral interpretation. Anyway, I think you know what I mean CD. Sometimes there are things that are clear and obvious. I have seen enough crazy people swinging things they could grab in a mad rage so obviously being out of control doesn't mean you cannot use things to bash at someone. Besides, what happens if I still choose to keep my trident? Am I prevented from attacking? Or attack with ...uh -4? -2? -x? Do I drop it? (it's clearly not written that you drop everything you hold!) Does the universe explode? :confused: Edit: Or what about that: I have a shield, a trident, and a helmet. Now I cannot attack with neither talons nor bite. Do I just stand around being in frenzy, or do I use the trident I am holding? According to your interpretation I'll just stand there and cannot attack despite being in frenzy and having a very dangerous weapon in hand. MB was missing the dnd definition of fall prone here too. But we're getting off topic. I understand your point, and agree that a line needs to be drawn somewhere, we just draw it at differing points (and for me this issue is right on the line - hence the fence sitting). It seems most people don't have an issue with using a trident, and so neither do I. PS. Nothing prevents you from making a bite attack while wearing a bucket on your head.
Dalton Onestone 03-03-05, 07:00 PM	Init Grakk 15+3=18 GrandElf 12+3=15 Thanks!
Huan 03-03-05, 07:40 PM	@Sindorin Tactics for Rook re-sent via PM.
Caterane 03-03-05, 07:50 PM	@Spasheridan: Heh, I had some practise with Zedarak before. Jindl already explained it perfectly. Natural weapons are nice additional attacks if they are not occupied with a weapon. I am still looking for a good build that can get off a lot of extra attacks with natural weapons. Halfdragon gives you Bite, Claw, Claw. Halfdragon Centaur would get 2 hooves in addition for 5 natural attacks but I am sure there are even better examples.
spasheridan 03-03-05, 07:56 PM	Monk - half dragon centaur. Flurry with "unarmed strike elbows" then claw / claw / bite / hoof / hoof... ICK!
Caterane 03-03-05, 08:22 PM	yeah and you can even fly! Someone should build that beast
T'Var 03-03-05, 08:37 PM	Monk - half dragon centaur. Flurry with "unarmed strike elbows" then claw / claw / bite / hoof / hoof... ICK! ya but youd be ECL 10 and only have 4hd...great dmg possability but i doubt youd last 3-4 rounds vs most ECL 10s
Snommelp 03-03-05, 08:41 PM	That sounds like a challenge, T'Var... I accept. Let it be known that I shall create the half-dragon centaur monk, and it shall be made by me, and I shall be the one who does the making. It shall be so. ...if I remember. I gots two sets of tactics (xanadu and Pittbull), but they're incompatible. I'll run one of the fights when I get the other set of tactics (or tomorrow, whichever comes last).
T'Var 03-03-05, 08:47 PM	That sounds like a challenge, T'Var... I accept. Let it be known that I shall create the half-dragon centaur monk, and it shall be made by me, and I shall be the one who does the making. It shall be so. ...if I remember. I gots two sets of tactics (xanadu and Pittbull), but they're incompatible. I'll run one of the fights when I get the other set of tactics (or tomorrow, whichever comes last). Bring it boy wonder heh Flower will be ready :fight!: With her army of TURKEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: EDIT Although....+16 Str, +4 Dex, +6 Con, +0 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha..... eek
Pitlords 03-03-05, 09:01 PM	Hm, one credit per smilie http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/think.gif PS: It has 5 HD
T'Var 03-03-05, 09:03 PM	Hm, one credit per smilie http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/think.gif PS: It has 5 HD Shhh stop helping
TaggIIV 03-03-05, 10:13 PM	Tactics recieved from Huan, still missing them from OWA for Keth and Vivat Grendel for Zeem.
OdinTheReaper 03-03-05, 10:38 PM	@OWA:Tactics sent for Odin @Celler: Tactics sent for Vyncent....also if u want some rp, look at his first fight vs Anna, Huan made a great story. Also in Roy Mustangs fight, the story sort of intertwines there too. I just havent had the time to edit in rp. EDIT: I sent both tactics via email.
Jindl 03-03-05, 11:21 PM	@Sindorin - Tactics for the Elder were PM'd in a few hours ago :D @Cat - It starts with only 4 HD and no levels of monk, right? -Jindl
TaggIIV 03-03-05, 11:29 PM	@Einzelgaenger" Hm. I fear ive made a grave mistake in my tactics. :p please ignore the ones I sent, I'll PM you new ones tomorrow. Too tired to write them up tonight...
Sindorin 03-04-05, 12:20 AM	@Sindorin - Tactics for the Elder were PM'd in a few hours ago :D @Cat - It starts with only 4 HD and no levels of monk, right? -Jindl Thanks. I will run the fight tomorrow!
cellardweller 03-04-05, 12:24 AM	@OWA:Tactics sent for Odin @Celler: Tactics sent for Vyncent....also if u want some rp, look at his first fight vs Anna, Huan made a great story. Also in Roy Mustangs fight, the story sort of intertwines there too. I just havent had the time to edit in rp. EDIT: I sent both tactics via email. Is that what passes for a subtle hint these days? :D
Snommelp 03-04-05, 12:28 AM	@Cat - It starts with only 4 HD and no levels of monk, right? -Jindl You are correct, sir. However, it's also only ECL 9. At ECL 10, it has the monk Hit Die as well, giving it a grand total of 5 HD.
spasheridan 03-04-05, 01:07 AM	Damon Tharkis (Cellardweller) vs Aeluath Dryearraheal (Kaigan): Spasheridan Hakatri Abendstern (Beldin) vs Razor the Storm (Zepher): Spasheridan [Extended] @Cellar- your tactics arrived via email but it looks like you only sent half of them, they were cut off mid sentance. Please resend! @Beldin, Kaigan, & Zepher - Please send me your tactics for your fights! PS - Wasn't the 1/2 dragon centaur monk MY idea... now we have to settle this with a goblin cage match! 100 fly speed, +7 nat AC, this guy is one tough monster!
Sindorin 03-04-05, 01:48 AM	Just out of curiosity, were the tactics I sent last week for Va'ria forwarded to T'Var, the pitlord for the fight since it has been extended this week? Let me know if they were or were not, please. Thanks!
Snommelp 03-04-05, 02:02 AM	Wasn't the 1/2 dragon centaur monk MY idea... now we have to settle this with a goblin cage match! 100 fly speed, +7 nat AC, this guy is one tough monster! We can both do it. It makes a nice premise for a challenge, if either one feels the other is infringing on his uniqueness.
Einzelgaenger 03-04-05, 03:13 AM	tactics recieved from my gladiators, you know who you are
xanadu 03-04-05, 03:17 AM	@ Snommelp - Ripper tactics should be correct now. @ Pitbull - Sent Necavi's via PM. If I'm not clear, PM me.
Beldin 03-04-05, 03:32 AM	@Spasheridan: tactics for Hakatri have been sent via email.
T'Var 03-04-05, 05:05 AM	Just out of curiosity, were the tactics I sent last week for Va'ria forwarded to T'Var, the pitlord for the fight since it has been extended this week? Let me know if they were or were not, please. Thanks! no they were not, go ahead and send them to me thanks
Sindorin 03-04-05, 02:29 PM	no they were not, go ahead and send them to me thanks Ah, good thing that I asked... I will get them to you once I finish Elder vs. Derth.
T'Var 03-04-05, 05:31 PM	Ah, good thing that I asked... I will get them to you once I finish Elder vs. Derth. round 6 you have Elder fail his concentrate check but on round 7 you had him as focused
Jindl 03-04-05, 05:39 PM	I would point out that you had the Elder become visible before the sleep spell was completed. This is incorrect. The attack doesn't occur until the spell is completed and Derth is forced to make a Will save. Until that point, the Elder should remain invisible, and Derth should have to pinpoint with listen and bypass concealment. I don't think it would change the outcome, but it is relevant because it may have saved the Elder a powerstone: vigor (ML5). -Jindl
Jindl 03-04-05, 05:42 PM	round 6 you have Elder fail his concentrate check but on round 7 you had him as focused You are correct. However, I would say that it is irrelevant for two reasons: 1. The Elder could have spent 4 more rounds while invisible attempting to regain focus. 2. The focus was later used to avoid overchannel damage, which the Elder could have just taken the 1d8 damage since he had 35 hps.
Sindorin 03-04-05, 05:47 PM	round 6 you have Elder fail his concentrate check but on round 7 you had him as focused oops, that probably happened when I had to go back and redo something because at one point I had forgotten an important thing (though at the moment I can't remember what it was.)
Sindorin 03-04-05, 05:55 PM	I would point out that you had the Elder become visible before the sleep spell was completed. This is incorrect. The attack doesn't occur until the spell is completed and Derth is forced to make a Will save. Until that point, the Elder should remain invisible, and Derth should have to pinpoint with listen and bypass concealment. I don't think it would change the outcome, but it is relevant because it may have saved the Elder a powerstone: vigor (ML5). -Jindl I guess that is true, I was not aware that Sleep did not make you appear until it resolved... If anything that will likely shorten the fight a great deal, so I will take a look at it. Please keep in mind that the story isn't finished because I wasn't sure what would need fixing. I'll rerun from where the sleep spell begins. First though I probably should resend Va'ria's tactics since her pitlord from last week did not decide to be considerate and forward them to, say, pitlords. Ah well.
Snommelp 03-04-05, 06:23 PM	I would like to run a fight tomorrow, but I still have only two sets of tactics, one for ECL 3 and one for ECL 4. The tactics I still need will all be coming from MysticMonk. Is he around, or does someone know him personally who can contact him?
spasheridan 03-04-05, 06:29 PM	@Zepher- come on cheif, hook me up with the tactics!
TaggIIV 03-04-05, 07:52 PM	I am still missing tactics from OWA and Vivad Grendel.. please get them in, I'm going to be running one of my fights tomorrow, on default or interpretation if necessary...
Sindorin 03-04-05, 10:39 PM	I just got back and was able to edit the fight. As Jindl speculated, the change saves the Elder a power stone of Vigor. The story isn't finished, I just put up a sort of intro. I haven't gotten to Va'ria's tactics just yet because I am really busy all of a sudden. Sorry T'Var... I really do wish that Ayatoshi would have been courteous enough to have forwarded them... :mad: They'll be sent as soon as I can get them. Right now, Nanaleigh wants to go play some billiards, and that sounds like a lot of fun. hehe
Zepher 03-04-05, 10:49 PM	@Spasheridan Right, tactics sent for Razor ... sorry for the lateness.
Vivat Grendel 03-05-05, 01:21 PM	"tactics sent for Zeem to TagIIV, same as it ever was. Off to work.
Megrim_Lord 03-05-05, 01:28 PM	Cat: Excellent job on the fight, I looked it over and It looked like you followed both fighters tactics to a T, even improvising on both party's parts when no tactics were presented for that interesting situation, I have no complaints, and thanks for checking my math, I must have added my BAB to those trip str rolls I think.
Megrim_Lord 03-05-05, 01:41 PM	The only thing you forgot actually, was mostly my fault for not adding it to his tactics- Trokk was supposed to jam a fishhook in Arthemus's thumb at the end of the fight, the adding insulting injury to injury sort of thing, if you get the chance could you edit that in? Thanks in advance :D
Caterane 03-05-05, 01:49 PM	for my tactics I wanted to Manifest Vigor. Then after manifested move my horse, so there wouldnt be a concentration check. Is that imppssible? No, that is not impossible but I did what was in your tactic: Excerpt from Arstimis tactics: 1. Manifest Vigor from stone and double move horse far forward and slightly to the right (so a view of Trokk might be possible If you double move a horse, you need to check. What I did was adapting your tactic and letting you expend your focus because I realized that vigor is an important part of your plan. Round 10: I really dont see how it is impossible for me to escape and run from this.... I always use the top left corner: (-27/+14) is blocked by a pillar to the right, and Trokk to the north. Your only way was diagonally south with a double move but that would have incurred an AoO plus Trokk would have gotten you anyway with his speed matching. My two handed bow has a hardness of 5 and 10 HP, so it shouldnt have been destroyed. No. Hardness 5, Hitpoints 5 Also, I wasnt sure why I had to run all those rounds in the beginning, when my horses base speed is 25 ft faster than Trokk's base speed. Double moves should have been sufficient. 20 ft actually but even with 30ft you would have had problems. He moves closer to the Central Pillar about 80 ft (his double move range) away from you. That means you have to cover a much greater distance than he has. If you don't he double moves next to you the next round. But also I dont understand why you used his potion of fly for him when and why you did. I thought I was fighting his tactics, not your tactics Cat.... I had him foolishly run after you for 4 full rounds. He had planned to use the fly potion in this fight so after realizing that he couldn't get you on foot it was a logical step to down the potion a bit earlier. I don't think having Trokk futilely run after you while you peck him with arrows would have been good pitlording from my side. If you followed his tactics, if it came down to me shooting arrows and him not being able to attack me in melee Ok. Also, according to the fly spell. if the flyer is ascending they can only move at half speed, so 30 ft...Trokk would have more trouble keeping up with me, and getting the height he needed. And so I did. If you check the positions you will notice that Trokk moved up at half speed. You have one point though: Trokk never said he wanted to sunder my bow in his tactics I mixed it up with the line about the rapier. He wanted to disarm it. I will correct that. Since you insist of going by the very word of the tactic I'll also make it a ranged duel for some rounds; he needs a 20 to hit you. However, I will also go by the very word for your tactic which didn't say to expend the focus on manifesting the powerstone. Arti, I adepted for your tactic not only in this fight but also in your past fights to an extend that I thought a good compromise to being close to the tactics but also having the gladiator realize things that do not work. For example, you want to double move while manifesting which has a 50% chance to make the power fail. Also, double moving wasn't enough to escape a 40ft opponoment so I let you run yet you even scolded me for doing that. I will rerun the fight tomorow from Round 1 on.
Megrim_Lord 03-05-05, 01:58 PM	aww crud, I already made changes, oh well. I thought Cat did good by you for modifying tactics and playing it smart instead of exact, in fact it seems like it may have come out worse for you in the end if he didn't, but that's just from my PoV
Snommelp 03-05-05, 03:30 PM	MysticMonk: If you are here, please get me your tactics. I will begin running the fights in roughly six hours, regardless.
Aramil Dunskar 03-05-05, 04:57 PM	Whoa Megrim Lord, if you please, could you put a spoiler in your sig? It take's up to much space otherwise. Thanks -Aramil
Megrim_Lord 03-05-05, 05:30 PM	Whoa Megrim Lord, if you please, could you put a spoiler in your sig? It take's up to much space otherwise. Thanks -Aramil I could, but then I'd be a conformist, and It'd be gratifying to everyone else who asked me to in the past, so no :D
Snommelp 03-05-05, 10:37 PM	The Battle of R and R is up. I'm going to give MysticMonk until tomorrow to get the tactics in for the other fight, because I'm a lazy bum. If you're bothered by Meg's sig, you can always change your settings so that you don't see all of it.
Arstimis 03-05-05, 11:34 PM	No, that is not impossible but I did what was in your tactic: If you double move a horse, you need to check. What I did was adapting your tactic and letting you expend your focus because I realized that vigor is an important part of your plan. Oh, ok thanks, i thought you were allowed to cast or manifest before the horse actually started moving, my fault I always use the top left corner: (-27/+14) is blocked by a pillar to the right, and Trokk to the north. Your only way was diagonally south with a double move but that would have incurred an AoO plus Trokk would have gotten you anyway with his speed matching. ahh, ok, i see now No. Hardness 5, Hitpoints 5 oh ok, i looked at the two handed hafted weapon for some reason. 20 ft actually but even with 30ft you would have had problems. He moves closer to the Central Pillar about 80 ft (his double move range) away from you. That means you have to cover a much greater distance than he has. If you don't he double moves next to you the next round. ya, sent another pm clearifying the mistake of what i said. But honestly. I still dont see how he can do this. You gave him more int that i think he would have to do this. but you dont give my gladiator the int to be able to stop it I had him foolishly run after you for 4 full rounds. He had planned to use the fly potion in this fight so after realizing that he couldn't get you on foot it was a logical step to down the potion a bit earlier. I don't think having Trokk futilely run after you while you peck him with arrows would have been good pitlording from my side. Ok. His plan was to use fly IF I ran out of arrows or I had pro from evil and he couldnt use his chain. His tactics stated (which i guess didnt show up in the PM) that if it came to using arrows Fight defensively inside structure with Comp Longbow if it becomes a war of arrows So you didnt really follow his tactics, but made what YOU thought would be best. And so I did. If you check the positions you will notice that Trokk moved up at half speed. You have one point though: Actuallly looking at the positions, the first time he had fly you had him move 60' up (full speed straight up), next round you had him move 25' up and more than 80' closer to me. Next round you had him move more than 100' to keep with me. Then for his dive he actually moves a little more than 128 ft for the dive. So actually all his flying movements were illegal. Except the first round when he went 5' up. I mixed it up with the line about the rapier. He wanted to disarm it. I will correct that. Since you insist of going by the very word of the tactic I'll also make it a ranged duel for some rounds; he needs a 20 to hit you. However, I will also go by the very word for your tactic which didn't say to expend the focus on manifesting the powerstone. I also asked you to email me back if you saw any mistakes or problems with my tactics. I would say that having to expend the focus (which doesnt matter cause i dont use it for anything else) would qualify as that. I think it is easier for the pitlord, right when he gets the emails, to read over tactics (even if he/she doesnt plan on running fight yet) so he could email the gladiator with errors he finds. So there should be no need for Red writing from the pitlord in tactics Arti, I adepted for your tactic not only in this fight but also in your past fights to an extend that I thought a good compromise to being close to the tactics but also having the gladiator realize things that do not work. For example, you want to double move while manifesting which has a 50% chance to make the power fail. Also, double moving wasn't enough to escape a 40ft opponoment so I let you run yet you even scolded me for doing that. As far as I can see, you seemed to pretty much run my tactics exactly how I said them. Could you please show me an instance in which you didnt. Also, I was not scolding you. I was just asking you some things I didnt understand. So that I would better understand them for later fights and such. I will rerun the fight tomorow from Round 1 on. If thats what you really want to do....
spasheridan 03-06-05, 12:24 AM	@cellar- I sent you an email about Damon, plz respond if you can. And the fight for Hakatri and Razor is up. Check it out over in the fights thread! If anyone is interested plz double check my moves, I had to go back and forth on them a bunch.
Beldin 03-06-05, 08:02 AM	@Spasheridan: double move with horse and ready to shoot on standart action is possible. At least archers used this tactic since months - many months...
Aramil Dunskar 03-06-05, 09:33 AM	I could, but then I'd be a conformist, and It'd be gratifying to everyone else who asked me to in the past, so no :D Hahahahah.... alright I'll accept that, I'm just glad that you didn't say "I'd prefer not to." *Shudders at the thought of that book* (10 points to whoever knows what book I'm refering to :P )
Caterane 03-06-05, 09:44 AM	Arthemus vs Trokk, Version 2.0 Kara de'Cheta vs Zubair But honestly. I still dont see how he can do this. You gave him more int that i think he would have to do this. but you dont give my gladiator the int to be able to stop it If you want to stay out of melee, you need to keep to the outer wall, right? To prevent charging you also need to end your movement behind a cover, right? That means a) you cannot always move your full speed but need to stop 10-20 ft earlier in order to stop at a cover, and b) moving along the outer wall is a greater distance than moving circles closer to the central pillar. If Trokk now keeps (80+10ft reach=) 90 ft distance to you, he can double move into threatening range the next round if you do not move away, right? Since we learned that he needs way less movement to circle around the central pillar than you on the outer rim, your 60ft vs his 40ft speed isn't enough to keep out of melee. The only way to make sure you can stay out of melee is running because your horse can run 300ft opposed to 160ft from Trokk. And that was what I did. Actuallly looking at the positions, the first time he had fly you had him move 60' up (full speed straight up) [Yes, he used double moves. Speed 60, double move 120, half speed upward = 60ft up], next round you had him move 25' up and more than 80' closer to me. [25ft up = 50ft movement plus 70 closer to you = 120ft double move with fly] Next round you had him move more than 100' to keep with me.[So he actually had another 20ft left] Then for his dive he actually moves a little more than 128 ft for the dive. [Dive = double speed. Fly 60ft, Dive 120ft; Double move dive = 240ft] So actually all his flying movements were illegal. [No, they were all correct] Except the first round when he went 5' up. His plan was to use fly IF I ran out of arrows or I had pro from evil and he couldnt use his chain. His tactics stated (which i guess didnt show up in the PM) that if it came to using arrows: Fight defensively inside structure with Comp Longbow if it becomes a war of arrows. So you didnt really follow his tactics, but made what YOU thought would be best. Read the rerun.
TaggIIV 03-06-05, 10:13 AM	I came down with some kind of cold/flu last night and really am not in the mood to do much pitlording... I'll probably be able to do 1 but im not confident about the second that I volunteered for Friday. If anyone could kindly take one of my matches I'd be thankful. I'll forward any tactics I recieved, sorry about the late notice (but, better than Tuesday?)
Jindl 03-06-05, 10:48 AM	@Spasheridan: double move with horse and ready to shoot on standart action is possible. At least archers used this tactic since months - many months... We've been doing it wrong. Please check the Tavern thread (post #'s 1371 through 1375.) <no I'm not talking in celestial>
Pitlords 03-06-05, 10:50 AM	I came down with some kind of cold/flu last night and really am not in the mood to do much pitlording... I'll probably be able to do 1 but im not confident about the second that I volunteered for Friday. If anyone could kindly take one of my matches I'd be thankful. I'll forward any tactics I recieved, sorry about the late notice (but, better than Tuesday?) I think Huan can take another match, if he agrees. Huan?
Sindorin 03-06-05, 10:56 AM	Hahahahah.... alright I'll accept that, I'm just glad that you didn't say "I'd prefer not to." *Shudders at the thought of that book* (10 points to whoever knows what book I'm refering to :P ) Bartleby!
Jindl 03-06-05, 11:10 AM	@Spasheridan: double move with horse and ready to shoot on standart action is possible. At least archers used this tactic since months - many months... We've been doing it wrong. Please check the Tavern thread (post #'s 1371 through 1375.) <no I'm not talking in celestial> @Cat - I think you should review those posts as well, judging by the Kara vs Zubair fight you just posted. (There's no way Zubair could get a shot at Kara in the first round with his mount only double moving.)
One_Winged_Angel 03-06-05, 11:10 AM	Ack. Darn. Listen, I hate to do this, especially with our shortage of pitlords, but I have about 0 time to run fights. A lot of last minute stuff came up. I would appreciate it it my fights got sent to others. Sorry. I just am not given due amounts of time and I don't want my fights to be rushed.
Jindl 03-06-05, 11:14 AM	Ack. Darn. Listen, I hate to do this, especially with our shortage of pitlords, but I have about 0 time to run fights. A lot of last minute stuff came up. I would appreciate it it my fights got sent to others. Sorry. I just am not given due amounts of time and I don't want my fights to be rushed. In light of all of the people in this type of situation, I'll be happy to take a fight if Cat approves ...
Caterane 03-06-05, 11:17 AM	@Cat - I think you should review those posts as well, judging by the Kara vs Zubair fight you just posted. (There's no way Zubair could get a shot at Kara in the first round with his mount only double moving.) I've just read your discussion in the Tavern (must've missed that :embarrass ) but I don't agree with that Jindl. Here's the part from the SRD: Guide with Knees: You can react instantly to guide your mount with your knees so that you can use both hands in combat. Make your Ride check at the start of your turn. If you fail, you can use only one hand this round because you need to use the other to control your mount. Zubair automatically passes his ride check at the start of his turn so he doesn't need to take another action after his ready action.
Jindl 03-06-05, 11:24 AM	The ride check at the beginning of the turn gives you the ability to control your mount with your knees. But the action of controlling your mount continues during the entire turn. That's why you cannot continue controlling your mount after you ready an action. PS- Please read the PM I just sent you.
Jindl 03-06-05, 12:13 PM	In light of all of the people in this type of situation, I'll be happy to take a fight if Cat approves ... @OWA - Cat agreed (via PM), so please forward the tactics to me.
spasheridan 03-06-05, 01:43 PM	@ Beldin & Cat: As far as the ready action, the way I see it is that the rider must ready the action after the mount makes the 1st move. Since readying ends your turn, and you and your mount share a turn, this ends the mounts movement as well. Basicly what Jindl said in his posts in the tavern a few days back. Also, when I pitlord I restrict readied actions to specific triggers. I wont let a player trigger on something like "I cast on his turn" or "WHen he takes a standard action". I require triggers to be more like "When he casts a spell" or "When he moves". THe main reason I do that is because the unspecifc triggers leave to much to my imagination and I start having to meta-game the match a bit. That quickly leads to a bias one way or the other and I try and remain impartial.
Aramil Dunskar 03-06-05, 03:17 PM	Bartleby! Heh, gj Sindorin, that's 10 points to you and a big thumbs up. So the score right now is: Sindorin: 10 Everyone else: 0
KerlanRayne 03-06-05, 07:42 PM	@All: About the 1 Credit = 1,000 XP/GP, what if we just have one credit = 1 win, or half a win, or a win against a lower level foe? If a fourth level character only got 800 XP for a credit that might restrict it enough. Two levels lower would be the same as half a win. @Cat - I think you should review those posts as well, judging by the Kara vs Zubair fight you just posted. (There's no way Zubair could get a shot at Kara in the first round with his mount only double moving.)Actually, I can get LOS for a shot with a single move on the horse. So that fight should stand as it is. KerlanRayne
Caterane 03-06-05, 07:49 PM	@KR: Sure. Position (12/8) is ok
Huan 03-06-05, 07:55 PM	I think Huan can take another match, if he agrees. Huan? Yeah, I can, beleive it or not... ignore the fact that I have been off and on this weekend. I can get it done if it is not already claimed.
KerlanRayne 03-06-05, 08:16 PM	Also, the damage progression is from the Improved Natural Attack Feat. IMPROVED NATURAL ATTACK [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4. Benefit: Choose one of the creature’s natural attack forms. The damage for this natural weapon increases by one step, as if the creature’s size had increased by one category: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6. A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.
TaggIIV 03-06-05, 08:21 PM	Well, since one of my matches involves Nell, I'll send you the tactics for the other fight... :p (PMd) I'm still missing tactics for Keth from OWA, I'll run on interpretation (no default) if I dont get any by tomorrow
Jindl 03-06-05, 08:22 PM	Actually, I can get LOS for a shot with a single move on the horse. So that fight should stand as it is. KerlanRayne Sorry, I didn't realize that you could get to a position to fire a shot after a single move. However, attacking after a single move granted your opponent cover. Zubair's attack still hit, but it was a much tougher shot. I think Cat has already edited in the change (which didn't affect the outcome). -Jindl
Arstimis 03-06-05, 08:35 PM	Arthemus vs Trokk, Version 2.0 Kara de'Cheta vs Zubair If you want to stay out of melee, you need to keep to the outer wall, right? To prevent charging you also need to end your movement behind a cover, right? That means a) you cannot always move your full speed but need to stop 10-20 ft earlier in order to stop at a cover, and b) moving along the outer wall is a greater distance than moving circles closer to the central pillar. If Trokk now keeps (80+10ft reach=) 90 ft distance to you, he can double move into threatening range the next round if you do not move away, right? Since we learned that he needs way less movement to circle around the central pillar than you on the outer rim, your 60ft vs his 40ft speed isn't enough to keep out of melee. The only way to make sure you can stay out of melee is running because your horse can run 300ft opposed to 160ft from Trokk. And that was what I did. Read the rerun. Ok, thank you for clearing all that up. It kind of confused me. Also when fly said you could only move at half speed when you ascend I thought that meant only 30'. That is pretty much also why i messed up the whole flying thing also. Sorry....again
Huan 03-06-05, 08:39 PM	Fowarded tactics for Zeem and Finael received, thanks Tagg.
TaggIIV 03-06-05, 08:44 PM	@Jindl: I dont know if OWA already forwarded you any tactics, but I had to make a minor revision anyway so I PMd them to you.
OdinTheReaper 03-06-05, 09:06 PM	@celler: In round 3 Eden never attacked. I thought he only drew one aao from her horse...this could have made a uge difference in the fight....Also at the end of round 6 i shouldnt have the invisibility in the round recap (where my vigor, hp, and mage armor is listed) @all: I thought that when a horse died, you didnt lose exp...? @pitlords and elders: If the above is true and i do lose 600xp.... 1. That bs 2. I wouldnt have used my horse the way that i did if i knew that i would lose TWICE the xp that i earned from losing. 3. If the above is indeed true...i will retire vyncent since there would be no point in continuing to fight with him....basically i lost three times and gained only 1 losses worth of exp. So retire him if i lose 600exp...its just not worth it, since i spent three weeks using him as a character and need another 2 weeks IF I WIN to come up with the lost experience.
Jindl 03-06-05, 09:19 PM	@Jindl: I dont know if OWA already forwarded you any tactics, but I had to make a minor revision anyway so I PMd them to you. Tactics recieved. @Snommelp - Please send me tactics for the Waist High Fist! @Pitlords - Please edit: Snomm Elp (Snommelp) vs Zaqh'sol the Scourge (TaggIIV): OneWingedAngel Jindl +1 credit... :D
Arstimis 03-06-05, 09:21 PM	Sorry, I didn't realize that you could get to a position to fire a shot after a single move. However, attacking after a single move granted your opponent cover. Zubair's attack still hit, but it was a much tougher shot. I think Cat has already edited in the change (which didn't affect the outcome). -Jindl Dang...and i thought the point of the newer arena (back when it was new) was to prevent things like this from happening
Jindl 03-06-05, 09:43 PM	Re: Gabriel vs Vyncent @Cellar - I know you took a lot of flakk last week ... so I hope there's no hard feelings if I raise a couple of questions about this fight :D - In Rnd 1, Gabriel needs to make a caster level check to use the scroll: call lightning. - In Rnd 3, if Eden double moves towards Gabriel, he should move 100 ft, which puts him ~ (9, 7). - In Rnd 4, when Eden moves to attack Gabriel, he provokes an AoO and is bitten by the wolf. Did Eden have to draw this AoO in order to move up to Gabriel and attack? It looks like Eden could have single moved around the wolf without provoking and still gotten to attack the druid. Also, even if he did provoke an AoO, he wasn't tripped so why didn't Eden finish moving at attack Gabriel? He should have been able to complete his single move and attack. - In Rnd 6, I think Vyncent should have been using the "sniping" rules when casting the magic missile. Bluff checks to distract are only used after you are spotted. If he had successfully sniped, he would have remained hidden (albiet without the benefit of invisibility or hide from animals). - In Rnd 6, Quetz has the benefit of improved evasion and should have only taken 8 damage. This leaves him at -4 hps (so no Fort save is needed from Vyncent). - The lightning strike in Rnd 6 leaves Vyncent and all of his allies unconscious. The fight effectively ends here and any additional actions (ie. the lightning strike in Rnd 7) which cause the death of his familiar do not count towards the fight results. So even if nothing else changes, the familiar is not considered to be killed because the fight effectively ended with it at -4 hps. -Jindl
Snommelp 03-06-05, 09:56 PM	@Snommelp - Please send me tactics for the Waist High Fist! Right! Sorry... slipped my mind. I'll get right on that.
Jindl 03-06-05, 10:04 PM	Right! Sorry... slipped my mind. I'll get right on that. Tactics recieved.
cellardweller 03-06-05, 11:12 PM	Re: Gabriel vs Vyncent @Cellar - I know you took a lot of flakk last week ... so I hope there's no hard feelings if I raise a couple of questions about this fight :D - In Rnd 1, Gabriel needs to make a caster level check to use the scroll: call lightning. - In Rnd 3, if Eden double moves towards Gabriel, he should move 100 ft, which puts him ~ (9, 7). - In Rnd 4, when Eden moves to attack Gabriel, he provokes an AoO and is bitten by the wolf. Did Eden have to draw this AoO in order to move up to Gabriel and attack? It looks like Eden could have single moved around the wolf without provoking and still gotten to attack the druid. Also, even if he did provoke an AoO, he wasn't tripped so why didn't Eden finish moving at attack Gabriel? He should have been able to complete his single move and attack. - In Rnd 6, I think Vyncent should have been using the "sniping" rules when casting the magic missile. Bluff checks to distract are only used after you are spotted. If he had successfully sniped, he would have remained hidden (albiet without the benefit of invisibility or hide from animals). - In Rnd 6, Quetz has the benefit of improved evasion and should have only taken 8 damage. This leaves him at -4 hps (so no Fort save is needed from Vyncent). - The lightning strike in Rnd 6 leaves Vyncent and all of his allies unconscious. The fight effectively ends here and any additional actions (ie. the lightning strike in Rnd 7) which cause the death of his familiar do not count towards the fight results. So even if nothing else changes, the familiar is not considered to be killed because the fight effectively ended with it at -4 hps. -Jindl Re CL check -I did roll it, but neglected to write it down (Don't remember the exact roll but it suceeded). Re movement - I had the horse move around Vyncent rather than through his space (because it didn't occur to me at the time). I didn't bother correcting it when I noticed because I didn't think it would make a difference, but as you pointed out it will (because horse can get one attack off before being fried). The dog had based the horse so there is no way to avoid the AoO (Horse's coordinates are lower right corner). Quick rolls: Horses attack "2"+6 miss Re Imp evasion - yup. Removing the -600xp penalty. Re Snipe Sniping requires that you make a "ranged attack", a category which I don't believe MM (a targeted spell) falls into. Hypothetically, using the same rolls (Hide "7"+4-20=-9 vs spot "4"+7-10=1) it would not have made any difference. I am open to debate on this topic for the sake of future consistency. Given none of these factors change the outcome of the fight, I am leaving it as is.
KerlanRayne 03-06-05, 11:17 PM	@all: I thought that when a horse died, you didnt lose exp...? @pitlords and elders: If the above is true and i do lose 600xp.... 1. That bs 2. I wouldnt have used my horse the way that i did if i knew that i would lose TWICE the xp that i earned from losing. 3. If the above is indeed true...i will retire vyncent since there would be no point in continuing to fight with him....basically i lost three times and gained only 1 losses worth of exp. So retire him if i lose 600exp...its just not worth it, since i spent three weeks using him as a character and need another 2 weeks IF I WIN to come up with the lost experience.EDIT: Oops, you didn't lose XP because of the horse, it was because your hawk was caught in the blast and killed. KerlanRayne
cellardweller 03-06-05, 11:20 PM	I think cellar was just confused, I have never seen a rule that it cost's Xp when a horse dies. He called it familiar death but your familiar was fine. He probably just mixed them up. KerlanRayne Just so there is no confusion. Under the 1.0, the familiar took 20pts of damage from the lightning bolt. and was fried. Under 1.1 Imp evasion was factored in so he only took 10 damage and survived. Xp cost for familiar death has been eliminated.
cellardweller 03-06-05, 11:24 PM	Can I just get a show of hands. All in favour of eliminating XP cost for familiar death say "Aye" all in favour of keeping them say "Nay" (I'd take it to the elders forum, but then it would take 6months to get a result).
OdinTheReaper 03-06-05, 11:28 PM	oh ok im glad.....i am not retiring vyncent then. Thanks celler and everyone else.
OdinTheReaper 03-06-05, 11:29 PM	Aye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EDIT: i agree with jindl on this issue
Jindl 03-06-05, 11:30 PM	Re Snipe Sniping requires that you make a "ranged attack", a category which I don't believe MM (a targeted spell) falls into. Hypothetically, using the same rolls (Hide "7"+4-20=-9 vs spot "4"+7-10=1) it would not have made any difference. I am open to debate on this topic for the sake of future consistency. Given none of these factors change the outcome of the fight, I am leaving it as is. The only possible change to the outcome was the horse's attack roll. So that's settled. As for sniping, I think a ranged spell qualifies as a ranged attack. Sniping doesn't say "attacks with a ranged weapon" it says "make one ranged attack". So I think you can snipe with a spell. Irrelevant for this fight (based on keeping the same rolls), but important for the future.
Jindl 03-06-05, 11:31 PM	Can I just get a show of hands. All in favour of eliminating XP cost for familiar death say "Aye" all in favour of keeping them say "Nay" (I'd take it to the elders forum, but then it would take 6months to get a result). Let's not crowd this thread with answers to this. Instead, feel free to ask Caterane to open a poll on the subject.
Jindl 03-06-05, 11:32 PM	Also ... Snomm Elp (Snommelp) vs Zaqh'sol the Scourge (TaggIIV): Jindl has been posted. @TaggIIV - Check your feats section for a violation (in red). @Cat - Please make sure to adjust the credits for this fight I took over from OWA.
Snommelp 03-06-05, 11:34 PM	Jindl: why did Snomm back away after he enlarged? I thought I had said to attack once he got big...
Jindl 03-06-05, 11:37 PM	Jindl: why did Snomm back away after he enlarged? I thought I had said to attack once he got big... He drank the potion, which used up his standard action, so you couldn't attack in the same round. Then I had to decide whether he would 5 ft step in or 5 ft step away. If he stepped in, then the warhorse would have full attacked plus 5 ft stepped back so Zaqh'sol could attack. If he stepped away, only Zaqh'sol would be able to attack (because the horse would have to move 5 ft forward to bring the lance into range). So stepping back prevented the horse from attacking you. -Jindl
cellardweller 03-06-05, 11:39 PM	Let's not crowd this thread with answers to this. Instead, feel free to ask Caterane to open a poll on the subject. spoilsport :P
Snommelp 03-06-05, 11:39 PM	Right. Silly mistake on my part. You're right, though; I should have been more agressive. I saw the horse and immediately started thinking defense.
Sindorin 03-06-05, 11:58 PM	In light of all of the people in this type of situation, I'll be happy to take a fight if Cat approves ... I can take the other if I get tactics ASAP.
Snommelp 03-07-05, 12:15 AM	Since KoRn vs. Lissa is finished, I suppose I could take another fight. As long as it's not Flower. Flower fights always wind up with me confused and doing reruns. @ Jindl: for some reason I feel the need to defend my use of the Enlarge potion, not just in the fact that I used it but my choice of when to use it. You see, I figured a small character would have a hard time hitting a mounted character unarmed, and I also figured that if Zaq saw Snomm enlarged from a distance, he might simply retreat and wait it out. And, in other news, Cedric is almost done with his quest (he's beaten all of the bad guys, at least), so he will be coming back to the arena soon, and my ECL 5 character will be following him.
Jindl 03-07-05, 12:22 AM	@ Jindl: for some reason I feel the need to defend my use of the Enlarge potion, not just in the fact that I used it but my choice of when to use it. You see, I figured a small character would have a hard time hitting a mounted character unarmed, and I also figured that if Zaq saw Snomm enlarged from a distance, he might simply retreat and wait it out. They're your tactics, and your certainly free to use them. But you do realize that small and medium characters have the same reach (meaning a small monk can just as easily attack a mounted opponent as a medium monk could). And the enlarge effect cost you 2 points of AC (-1 for size and -1 for the reduction in Dex), which is why the last attack hit you. As for "waiting it out", as I noted in your tactics, the potion: enlarge person is CL5 by default, which is why it costs 250 gp, and why it lasts 5 minutes. Unless you are planning on grappling or tripping people, I don't see an enlarge person effect being of great use to you. Instead I would consider saving up for some things to enhance your attacks (like a pemanent greater magic fang, or some psionic tattoos of some of the better psywar powers). And note that you have hide as a class skill, and your small size adds to that, giving you a good chance at stealth. I would also suggest loading that crossbow with a screaming bolt to use in the first round. Even if you miss, your opponent (and his allies) may become shaken for the rest of the fight, which would help you a bunch. Just my two cents.
Snommelp 03-07-05, 12:30 AM	I'll think about it, Jindl. Thanks.
Einzelgaenger 03-07-05, 05:35 AM	Sorry to do this as such short notice, but I do not have time to run this week's battle of mine. Any takers?
Jindl 03-07-05, 09:27 AM	Okay, it sounds like there are still 2 fights that the assigned pitlords have asked for replacements to take over: Nell Leonne (Huan) vs Keth'Arian'Kari (One_Winged_Angel): TaggIIV* Odin Soulbringer (Odin the Reaper) vs Flower (T'Var): OneWingedAngel Makar Sunbranch (TaggIIV) vs Kiyo Zephlyn (Zepher): Einzelgaenger *- Scratch that, TaggIIV said he could run it. I suppose I could take another fight, so I'll take Odin vs Flower. Any volunteers for the other fight? @Cat - Please reassign Odin vs Flower to me, and note that Huan agreed to take over Zeem Z’ayn (Vivat Grendel) vs Finael Owlguide (Spasheridan): TaggIIV. @Odin + T'Var + OWA - I would appreciate it if you guys could forward me the tactics for the fight. OWA has been unresponsive since his request yesterday, so I may need the players to resend their tactics to me.
Pitlords 03-07-05, 10:00 AM	OWA another -1, TaggIIV -1, and Huan+1, Jindl +1 for this fight and +1 for the last fight he took over. Thank you guys. We need pitlords for these fights: Nell Leonne (Huan) vs Keth'Arian'Kari (One_Winged_Angel): TaggIIV Makar Sunbranch (TaggIIV) vs Kiyo Zephlyn (Zepher): Einzelgaenger
T'Var 03-07-05, 10:01 AM	@Odin + T'Var + OWA - I would appreciate it if you guys could forward me the tactics for the fight. OWA has been unresponsive since his request yesterday, so I may need the players to resend their tactics to me. tactic forwarded. I will have my fights up this evening I'll take Nell Leonne (Huan) vs Keth'Arian'Kari (One_Winged_Angel): also guys forward your tactics to me
TaggIIV 03-07-05, 10:11 AM	I'm confused. Am I supposed to run anything this week, just to make sure?
Jindl 03-07-05, 10:26 AM	I'm confused. Am I supposed to run anything this week, just to make sure? Sorry, that's my fault. I thought you asked for both your fights to be reassigned, not just one. Please, go ahead and run Nell vs Keth. @Cat + T'Var - Oops...
Jindl 03-07-05, 10:27 AM	tactic forwarded. I will have my fights up this evening I'll take Nell Leonne (Huan) vs Keth'Arian'Kari (One_Winged_Angel): also guys forward your tactics to me Tactics recieved. And please note that TaggIIV said he could run Nell vs Keth (sorry.) Maybe you could take over Einzel's fight?
Pittbull 03-07-05, 10:49 AM	Fight Necavi vs. Aureus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5608967&postcount=1356) is posted! Puh, that took long....... EDIT: Will take over Einzels fight, if nobody else volunteer, but I'll be only able to run it tomorrow during the day (So, when you Americans sleep: :zzz: :cloud9: :zzz: ).
Huan 03-07-05, 10:54 AM	Bare-bones of Uhmentarymster vs Ceres (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5609014) is up. Short version: I don't think this is going to help the 'readying with mounts', 'initiative', or 'half-dragon characters' debates at all...
Snommelp 03-07-05, 11:47 AM	Bare-bones of Uhmentarymster vs Ceres (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5609014) is up. Short version: I don't think this is going to help the 'readying with mounts', 'initiative', or 'half-dragon characters' debates at all... In Round 1, did the horse double-move, or run (you said run in the fight). If it ran, it can't get to (-10, 1) because you have to run in a straight line and there are obstructions. And, after Jindl pointed out something I missed, I can't agree that it's legal to ready an action for the end of your horse's move.
Sindorin 03-07-05, 11:51 AM	Fight Necavi vs. Aureus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5608967&postcount=1356) is posted! Puh, that took long....... EDIT: Will take over Einzels fight, if nobody else volunteer, but I'll be only able to run it tomorrow during the day (So, when you Americans sleep: :zzz: :cloud9: :zzz: ). Heh, some of us go by your time every once in a while :D
Huan 03-07-05, 11:59 AM	In Round 1, did the horse double-move, or run (you said run in the fight). If it ran, it can't get to (-10, 1) because you have to run in a straight line and there are obstructions. And, after Jindl pointed out something I missed, I can't agree that it's legal to ready an action for the end of your horse's move. Oh crap, you're right ... rerun! (with a dbl-move, there is no way to be in range of a breath weapon, btw)
Sindorin 03-07-05, 12:20 PM	Oh crap, you're right ... rerun! (with a dbl-move, there is no way to be in range of a breath weapon, btw) noooooo... nooooo rerun!!! curses!!!
Jindl 03-07-05, 12:20 PM	@Huan - Don't miss the second part of Snommelp's message: You can't hold a readied action until the end of your mount's double move. Your mount's movement ends when you ready your action (which is at the midpoint if your mount is double moving or running.) So Ceres must be in breath weapon range at the midpoint of a double move or run. Also, if his opponent is negative, wouldn't it be easier for a character to simply attack his helpless opponent (attack, not CDG) than it would be to spend several rounds fighting a heavy warhorse? I mean, Uhme was like AC 5 (Dex = 0), and a single hit would have taken him past -10, ending the fight... Of course, its all moot in the rerun, but its the concept I'm talking about.
Pittbull 03-07-05, 12:21 PM	Oh crap, you're right ... rerun! (with a dbl-move, there is no way to be in range of a breath weapon, btw) Starting from (B) it might be possible with a base speed of 70ft (spurring!) to reach point X (x-10/y+3), if use the closest way around the central obstacle, but be carefull, sqeezing-rule aplies and re-check my calculation, I'm not absolutely sure, if I'm right. From point X to A it's a distance of 55ft. EDIT: Jindl was faster and more right!
Sindorin 03-07-05, 12:22 PM	Yes, if I remember correctly, I said in the tactics to attack the downed opponent to finish him off if he was still bleeding. Edit: never mind, I guess I did kind of word it badly - I said eliminate any remaining threat... that could be why Ceres attacked the horse rather than its unconscious rider... oh well.
Pittbull 03-07-05, 01:43 PM	Makar Sunbranch (TaggIIV) vs Kiyo Zephlyn (Zepher): Einzelgaenger Pittbull Seems like the fight has been assigned to me. Please send me your tactics quickly.
T'Var 03-07-05, 01:49 PM	Big No No in the fight Kaigan just ran Fyhir drinks potion of Shield. That is a custom potion that is not in the DMG you cannot buy one
Kaigan 03-07-05, 01:53 PM	That's what I thought of first. So no potion of shield? Alrighty that will drastically change the fight. I'll make changes now
Sindorin 03-07-05, 01:54 PM	Looks like they meant Shield of Faith.
Kaigan 03-07-05, 01:57 PM	No he had specifically stated to use it becuas eof magic missle
Jindl 03-07-05, 01:59 PM	That's what I thought of first. So no potion of shield? Alrighty that will drastically change the fight. I'll make changes now Also note that Elishar's shield spell lasts for 30 rounds (I think you had it end in Rnd 11).
T'Var 03-07-05, 02:06 PM	Looks like they meant Shield of Faith. no i checked Fyhir sheet, there is a potion of Shield and a shield of faith
Huan 03-07-05, 02:09 PM	Starting from (B) it might be possible with a base speed of 70ft (spurring!) to reach point X (x-10/y+3), if use the closest way around the central obstacle, but be carefull, sqeezing-rule aplies and re-check my calculation, I'm not absolutely sure, if I'm right. From point X to A it's a distance of 55ft. EDIT: Jindl was faster and more right! That's true, but I thought you could only spur with a single move, not a double. I mean, looking at the Ride skill, spur only counts to a move action... not simply the action of moving :confused:
T'Var 03-07-05, 02:13 PM	That's true, but I thought you could only spur with a single move, not a double. I mean, looking at the Ride skill, spur only counts to a move action... not simply the action of moving :confused: it gives you +10 base movement for the round. so +20 for a double move or +50 for a full run
Kaigan 03-07-05, 02:15 PM	Alright i fixed it, only lasted a round longer. So hopefully all is well. *Dang it, missed physics, oh well*.
spasheridan 03-07-05, 02:17 PM	What? No potions of shield? Ack! That's no good!! UM.. Fyhir.... *checks the math* would have used a stone of vigor instead of a potion of shield and increase his min distance to at least 150 ft at all times. If yer going to re-run let me know because there are a few other small details that need to be poked at... (short range on scorching ray scroll so he can't hit me with it) but it looks like it's about the same.
T'Var 03-07-05, 02:17 PM	dont look here
Jindl 03-07-05, 02:19 PM	What? No potions of shield? Ack! That's no good!! UM.. Fyhir.... *checks the math* would have used a stone of vigor instead of a potion of shield and increase his min distance to at least 150 ft at all times. If yer going to re-run let me know because there are a few other small details that need to be poked at... He already reran it, you won, yippee. ;)
Huan 03-07-05, 02:20 PM	it gives you +10 base movement for the round. so +20 for a double move or +50 for a full run Okay, thanks. But, looks like Ceres cannot do the breath weapon in round 1 anyway, so the rerun will continue.
Jindl 03-07-05, 02:44 PM	Tactics recieved for Flower (T'Var). Still waiting on tactics for Odin Soulbringer (Odin the Reaper).
spasheridan 03-07-05, 02:47 PM	THanks for the battle Kaigan! So.. do the little kids like watching bloodsports? Gladius must be a mean town...
Huan 03-07-05, 02:55 PM	Rerun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5609014) done... of all the times for a lucky shot...I am actually a little in disbelief.
T'Var 03-07-05, 03:14 PM	THanks for the battle Kaigan! So.. do the little kids like watching bloodsports? Gladius must be a mean town... Naw Rome had the same fights for hundreds of years and it was a great place to live
OdinTheReaper 03-07-05, 03:24 PM	Tactics recieved for Flower (T'Var). Still waiting on tactics for Odin Soulbringer (Odin the Reaper). When did we change Pitlords??? I thought he was supposed to send them to you....no matter...i will email them now sorry about that i didnt know i had to resend them.....:)
OdinTheReaper 03-07-05, 03:29 PM	Odins Tactics Redirected to Jindl via email
Jindl 03-07-05, 04:02 PM	Odins Tactics Redirected to Jindl via email Tactics recieved. I'll run the fight later tonight :D
Caterane 03-07-05, 05:32 PM	Rerun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5609014) done... of all the times for a lucky shot...I am actually a little in disbelief. You forgot to substract the distance penalty but it still hits (exactly). Wow, I lost ini, he chose the side where my horse doesn't protect, he rolled a 19, and almost maximum damage. My luck returns. Second loss, second half-a-round fight :/ Anyway, Sindorin avenged Nanaleigh. I guess he doesn't have to sleep on the couch today LOL
Snommelp 03-07-05, 05:40 PM	How tough can this guy be? Let Snomm at 'im! He'll show that half-dragon a thing or two! Just... like... Zaq. . .
spasheridan 03-07-05, 05:47 PM	SO, what's the consensus on having the gladiators start in a tunnel. They're 5 feet from (20,0) or (-20,0) underground. You MUST leave the tunnel on your 1st turn, but you can take a full round action and 5 foot out the door on your turn. THe basics is that you can drink a potion or cast a spell BEFORE you can be attacked....
Sindorin 03-07-05, 05:51 PM	You forgot to substract the distance penalty but it still hits (exactly). Wow, I lost ini, he chose the side where my horse doesn't protect, he rolled a 19, and almost maximum damage. My luck returns. Second loss, second half-a-round fight :/ Anyway, Sindorin avenged Nanaleigh. I guess he doesn't have to sleep on the couch today LOL I will admit though that it was pure luck. I was pretty much ready to lose once that tactic wouldn't work. Next time I suppose I will have to try something... more reliable. We'll see what happens.
Einzelgaenger 03-07-05, 07:30 PM	Seems like the fight has been assigned to me. Please send me your tactics quickly. tactics fwd'ed
Huan 03-07-05, 08:50 PM	I will admit though that it was pure luck. I was pretty much ready to lose once that tactic wouldn't work. Next time I suppose I will have to try something... more reliable. We'll see what happens. Yeah, to hit Uhmentarymster, Ceres pretty much had to roll 19 or 20 ... Forutnately for him, that happened, but had he missed, there was a strong chance he would have been pulverized on Uhmentarymster's turn. Pretty much, it was a two-hit fight: You hit him, and he hit the ground. And since it would have been the same the other way around, whoever threw the first punch was guaranteed victory... this was one of those times were initiative was crucial, it seems. Now ... how to make a story out of this...
spasheridan 03-07-05, 11:06 PM	So Damon & Aeluath have finally finished their mammoth 19 round battle. I've re-run it twice so far after catching some mistakes early on.. you think I would have caught both at once but no.. I had to do it the hard way. In any case, HERE it is!
Huan 03-07-05, 11:14 PM	Bare-bones of Zeem vs Fineal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5615340) is up (an indiscreet rerun was made after I remembered something crucial: Fineal cannot use Scrolls yet). Short Version: Man, despite all the concealment miss chances, none of it seemed to matter.
spasheridan 03-07-05, 11:20 PM	@ Huan: Puppy is a hunting dog, he knows the hunting tricks. Hunting (DC 20): An animal trained for hunting knows the tricks attack, down, fetch, heel, seek, and track. Training an animal for hunting takes six weeks. Your right, I should have written it down. Sorry! And no scrolls? Sorry, I was rushed on my purchases last week. Thanks!
cellardweller 03-07-05, 11:48 PM	So Damon & Aeluath have finally finished their mammoth 19 round battle. I've re-run it twice so far after catching some mistakes early on.. you think I would have caught both at once but no.. I had to do it the hard way. In any case, HERE it is! The bad news is that sanctuary only lasts for 4 rounds and is ended by casting an offensive spell (SW is an evocation and counts). I'm not fussed if the fight stays as is, but if you are making modifications, the owls wisdom step should have been skipped as per tactics (I imagine this was a hangover from a 2xHP version).
Huan 03-07-05, 11:55 PM	@ Huan: Puppy is a hunting dog, he knows the hunting tricks. Your right, I should have written it down. Sorry! And no scrolls? Sorry, I was rushed on my purchases last week. Thanks! Its ok, you rolled a natural 20 on your Handle Animal anyway.
spasheridan 03-08-05, 12:42 AM	The bad news is that sanctuary only lasts for 4 rounds and is ended by casting an offensive spell (SW is an evocation and counts). I'm not fussed if the fight stays as is, but if you are making modifications, the owls wisdom step should have been skipped as per tactics (I imagine this was a hangover from a 2xHP version). NO! Not again! :D Um, the Owls Wisdom was a HUGE perk for all of those SW attacks, so I cast it after the HP to help them as well. But yeah, it came out of the original fight which went: HP (dodged like you see), owls wisdom, readied HP (failed save), close and A made the save next round (that's when I noticed that you didn't have a 2nd HP) The 2nd fight went HP, Owls Wisdom, then 4 SW's and Damon went down under a hail of arrows, then I realized that Aelouth had to put his shield away use the bow and all of those barely missed / confirmed crits became actual hits and confirmed crits (did you see that string of 1's and 2's for his ride checks for cover? OUCH!) As for the Sanctuary, you cast it twice in the match. 1st time it did nothing, then you cast your 1st spiritual weapon in rnd 5 then the 2nd sanctuary in rnd 7 (conventialy that is the same round that Aelouth tries to shoot you). So that should stay as is, maintaning the SW isn't the same as casting / attacking (right?). My real problem though was with Aelouth's tactics. Since you were a spell battery he could have spent the whole match dodging behind the central pillar and causing the SW's to stop targetting him. Basicly there was no clear choice about when to stop dodging spells and switch to attacking because his plan to attack with his lance was never possible after he would dodge away (and the slower mount).
Jindl 03-08-05, 01:51 AM	Odin Soulbringer (Odin the Reaper) vs Flower (T'Var) has begun. Of course, after spending the last 2 hours auditing both pc's, I'm tired and am going to wait until tomorrow to actually run it. @Odin + T'Var - There is A LOT of red ink on your characters. Shame on you both :P
cellardweller 03-08-05, 02:18 AM	... It didn't even occur to me that OWis effects SW - I'll have to remember this for next time! But as I said, no skin off my teeth either way I just figured that your rational for Aeiou was going after Reflections instead of just killing Damon because he couldn't get through the sancturary. (I think I'll stop arguing in favor of my opponent now :D)
Snommelp 03-08-05, 02:26 AM	Odin Soulbringer (Odin the Reaper) vs Flower (T'Var) has begun. Of course, after spending the last 2 hours auditing both pc's, I'm tired and am going to wait until tomorrow to actually run it. @Odin + T'Var - There is A LOT of red ink on your characters. Shame on you both :P That is a lot of red ink... a lot more than I noticed on Flower when I ran her... I bow to you as the auditing master, Jindl.
spasheridan 03-08-05, 02:36 AM	It didn't even occur to me that OWis effects SW - I'll have to remember this for next time! But as I said, no skin off my teeth either way I just figured that your rational for Aeiou was going after Reflections instead of just killing Damon because he couldn't get through the sancturary. (I think I'll stop arguing in favor of my opponent now :D) LOL! IF the shots were on you instead of reflections you ... my quick math shows me that you take 23 more pts of damage before you kill Aelouth. A closer match in some regards but still about the same. If I dropped the OWis then I think you get turned into elf food! I'm going to leave it as is. I think it's a decent fight with the tactics sent in. A small tweak in either one and it would have been VERY differant
Dalton Onestone 03-08-05, 03:42 AM	@T'Var: Thanks for running GrandElf's last fight! Actually, I think he did use a scroll or two, but it's moot since I'm retiring him.
Pittbull 03-08-05, 08:33 AM	AS promised, I ran the fight Makar vs. Kiyo (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5617394&postcount=1365)! Please tell me, if there are any errors, it was a bit of a rush.
Sindorin 03-08-05, 08:40 AM	When did the Harvester decide to beat my characters with the late-fight stick when they were asleep? :rolleyes: ;)
T'Var 03-08-05, 08:40 AM	AS promised, I ran the fight Makar vs. Kiyo (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5617394&postcount=1365)! Please tell me, if there are any errors, it was a bit of a rush. well the only thing i saw was the animal CDGing. didnt matter since his foe was already in the negs. the reasoning is the fact that is an animal, it doesnt care about presission damage. that and it was raging so it wouldnt even take aditional commands
Pittbull 03-08-05, 09:09 AM	Well, you're right! Thanks a lot, I'll change this to a full-round attack.
OdinTheReaper 03-08-05, 12:44 PM	Question.....if my fight isnt posted till after 3:00 (in 4hours) can i ready Odin for a fight as soon as the fight is up? Also i will be in class until about 3:30, then i have to go get my hair cut right after that so i will be unavailable from 3:30 to 4:30.....just so everyone knows.
Sindorin 03-08-05, 12:59 PM	The fight deadline is tomorrow. You've still got plenty of time for the fight to get finished and to edit.
Jindl 03-08-05, 01:41 PM	Question.....if my fight isnt posted till after 3:00 (in 4hours) can i ready Odin for a fight as soon as the fight is up? Also i will be in class until about 3:30, then i have to go get my hair cut right after that so i will be unavailable from 3:30 to 4:30.....just so everyone knows. You can go ahead and edit your sheet now (since I copied it onto the fight thread). I'll finish the fight tonight.
OdinTheReaper 03-08-05, 01:53 PM	Well how do i buy items and restock, send it to the pitlords after pairings, i mean since i won tlevel up anyways but i was planning on buying some items and such?
Sindorin 03-08-05, 03:32 PM	Yes, that was very nice of Jindl. I wish Mystic would do that so I could edit Sokai's sheet... oh well.
OdinTheReaper 03-08-05, 03:47 PM	I couldnt find it...where is it? thanks
spasheridan 03-08-05, 04:13 PM	I couldnt find it...where is it? thanks? What is it? Your Character? THe match? The items you want to buy? :D
Sindorin 03-08-05, 04:24 PM	Jindl posted your fight in the fights thread but he hasnt had a chance to finish it.
OdinTheReaper 03-08-05, 05:53 PM	@shap: Well i need to restock on all the items i use is all.... @Sindorin: i thought he said that he posted my character or something...i just got confused..i saw it in the fights thread...IM SOO LOST...:D
spasheridan 03-08-05, 06:19 PM	Odin, lay of the green man. It's bad for the brain cells! ;)
OdinTheReaper 03-08-05, 06:31 PM	OH....i need to sell my Negotiator warhammer (for half its value) and re-buy an mw shortsword....and that will be called the negotiator instead b/c of the negative rolls i get for twf....thanks
Jindl 03-08-05, 07:58 PM	OH....i need to sell my Negotiator warhammer (for half its value) and re-buy an mw shortsword....and that will be called the negotiator instead b/c of the negative rolls i get for twf....thanks You could also just use a small sized warhammer. You'd take a -2 penalty for it being the wrong size (not medium), but it would be considered a light weapon for TWF, and you'd retain your weapon focus/weapon specialization bonuses. Your attacks would read: "Soulbringer" MW Warhammer +9 melee, 1d8+5 damage, 20/x3 [1-handed] +9 melee, 1d8+6 damage, 20/x3 [2-handed] [-1 attack w/ buckler] +7 melee, 1d8+5 damage, 20/x3 [TWF] "The Negotiator" small MW Warhammer +7 melee, 1d6+5 damage, 20/x3 [light] +4 melee, 1d6+3 damage, 20/x3 [TWF] [-1 attack w/ buckler] I think this is better than using a short sword (1 lower on attack for 2 more damage). BTW: The fight is posted up to Rnd 3 now ...
Megrim_Lord 03-08-05, 08:04 PM	why not just use a light hammer if you're going to do that?
OdinTheReaper 03-08-05, 08:09 PM	i thought the short sword had more damage?
TaggIIV 03-08-05, 08:15 PM	The small warhammer and medium shortsword are both 1d6. criticals are x3 and 19-20/x2 though respectively. Plus with the former you can apply the same feats like Weapon Focus/Specialization to both weapons. Light hammer would deal less damage than a shortsword and it doesnt reapply feats either.. x2 crit too... can be thrown though?
OdinTheReaper 03-08-05, 08:28 PM	Thanks tag.....i didnt feel like getting out the old srd. I would then like to change my weapon to an mw small warhammer.....
Jindl 03-08-05, 08:36 PM	Thanks tag.....i didnt feel like getting out the old srd. I would then like to change my weapon to an mw small warhammer..... That's fine. That's a minor enough change that you don't need to worry about selling the old hammer and buying a new one. Just change it on your sheet (and please write your attacks the way I provided above, its a lot simpler for the pitlord to follow). Rnd 4 and Rnd 5 and Rnd 6 are done ...
T'Var 03-08-05, 10:05 PM	I know this is early to start asking questions about the fight Jindl, but the Hippogriffs first attack looks much like a dive A creature that flies can make dive attacks. A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage. A creature can use the run action while flying, provided it flies in a straight line. that would be enough to drop Odin horse.
Jindl 03-08-05, 10:24 PM	Sorry, that was just me describing its arrival. It really appeared on the ground and did a single move + attack. A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. It could not appear at an altitude, so it could not dive this round. EDIT: Rnd 7 and Rnd 8 and Rnd 9 and Rnd 10 and Rnd 11 and ...
OdinTheReaper 03-09-05, 12:18 AM	:whatsthis Your suspense is killin me Jindl...u know that right.....im gonna pass out and have a heart attack.
Jindl 03-09-05, 12:25 AM	:whatsthis Your suspense is killin me Jindl...u know that right.....im gonna pass out and have a heart attack. The fight is now finished. Please read (and reread) all of the pitlord comments (both in the fight, and on the character sheets/tactics). -Jindl
OdinTheReaper 03-09-05, 12:39 AM	Ok thanks for auditing my sheet...it will help out alot i appreciate it.
T'Var 03-09-05, 07:54 AM	The fight is now finished. Please read (and reread) all of the pitlord comments (both in the fight, and on the character sheets/tactics). -Jindl Jindl...Im confused. if total cover was avalible why didnt Flower go behind it then cast from the scroll? that would have assured the SNA5 would be cast and since he was entangled she could have waisted a round to get there and not had to worry??? Why cast in the open when she could have totally hid from his bow???
Jindl 03-09-05, 09:33 AM	Jindl...Im confused. if total cover was avalible why didnt Flower go behind it then cast from the scroll? that would have assured the SNA5 would be cast and since he was entangled she could have waisted a round to get there and not had to worry??? Why cast in the open when she could have totally hid from his bow??? FYI: The "total cover" I was referring to was on the other side of the central obstacle. Wth a speed of 20, it would have taken you a couple of rounds to get there. Now to answer your question: It wasn't in your tactics. At that point in the fight, things were going pretty much according to plan. Your tactics still covered the situation without needing to be adapted. So when you said "wait until the hippos are gone", I thought that meant that you would wait from a position where you could see your opponent and the hippos. That's why you were in a position of cover and using total defense. It didn't occur to me that Flower could use that time to travel several rounds to get behind the central obstacle. You probably should have said in your tactics "wait behind total cover until the hippos are gone." Odin's tactics broke down much earlier and needed some pitlord adaptation = which was pretty easy considered the only ranged attack he had was his bow, and it wouldn't take a genious to realize that using the potion: protection from arrows was the right thing to do at the end. I'm not a big fan of pitlord adaptation. But I don't want players to feel that I ran their characters as "stupid", either. So I try to adapt when tactics break down. But if your tactics are working and it doesn't occur to me to take an action not listed in your tactics, please don't complain. As it was, Odin had several VERY lucky moments in this fight, and Flower still would have won if she had been a little better prepared (oil: magic weapon or scroll: produce flame or scroll: summon swarm, etc.) I was going to write some suggestions for you and for Odin at the end of the fight, but after auditing for 2 hours, and running it for 3 hours, I was pretty wiped out. So I'll put some suggestions here: For Odin- 1. Buy some potions: protection from <alignment>. Not only to they provide the same deflection bonus to AC that your potion: shield of faith does, but they also give a +2 resistance bonus on saves (would have helped a little against the entangles) and they prevent summoned creatures from using natural attacks against you (allowing you to totally ignore the hippogriff). 2. Put some ranks into Handle Animal. Not only will it give you a bonus on ride checks (+2 synergy if you have 5 ranks of HA) but it will allow you to reliably give commands to Sleipner when you are not mounted. 3. Buy an oil: magic weapon, just in case someone uses a protection from arrows effect against you. For Flower- 1. Focusing on a single, high powered summoning scroll is like putting all of your eggs in one basket. Many times you'll succeed and the big summon will help you win the fight. But sometimes your opponent will find a way to overcome your creature (by disrupting the spell, by using a potion: protection from alignment, by casting dispel magic, by becoming invisible and waiting 7-8 rounds, etc) and without other options, you'll lose. So diversify your resources. Get scrolls: summon swarm, scrolls: produce flame (CL5), and other combat scrolls which don't require saves. For the 1125 gp that the high powered scroll cost, you could have gotten multiple copies of the two items above. 2. Druid's might not make the best healers, but they can use healing scrolls. So buy some scrolls: cure serious wounds. If you had one or two of these, Flower could have brought Thorn back up to positive to continue the fight against Odin. 3. Until you can afford a magic weapon, you really should buy an oil: magic weapon. Just for fights like this. 4. A potion: mage armor is probably a better choice for now than using leather armor, especially since dropping that 15 lbs will put you back at unencumbered. However, very soon people will start throwing dispel magics, and a CL1 potion isn't going to last very long. So I suggest you start working on getting a dragonhide breast plate to protect you when you aren't in wildshape. You can always enchant it to be Wilding later, and enjoy the protection all the time. 5. For an entangle + summon strategy, a scroll: obscurring mist can be just as effective as a potion: invisibility. After entangling your foe, cast obscurring mist, and from the total concealment within you can summon your creatures to attack. And the scroll only costs 25 gp. Well, I hope you understand why I didn't have Flower use total cover. And I hope these suggestions help both you and Odin. :D -Jindl
T'Var 03-09-05, 09:53 AM	guess i just didnt undstand why you adapted tactics for defence in some places and not in others. if was only 2 rounds away or possably 1 with a run action i saw no need to cast my last spell while in moderate danger of having it disrupted
spasheridan 03-09-05, 01:05 PM	@T'var- Learn from it! Something to keep in mind when sending tactics, always include a position comment. Say you wanted to be a sniper, you're tactics should be "Shoot, keep long range (minimum of X feet" and "Avoid melee at all costs, take a move / move over a move / shoot if that will avoid being engaged in melee". If you're a summoner then your tactics should read "cast X,Y,Z. Always move to cover, stay out of LOS if possible". @ EVeryone - wow, all the matches are done for the week!! Great job pitlords! And everyone was really good about getting replacements for pitlording and stepping up when asked. EVeryone get's a cookie! :cookie:
Huan 03-09-05, 02:17 PM	Slight expansion for Zeem vs Fineal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5615340) is done. I know I said I would do a story for all of my fights, but for sake of dignity, I will not post the Uhmentarymster vs Ceres fight expansion... to be honest, what I came up for it was kind of lame, and I do not wish to mis-portray any characters. In reality I could not stretch a good scenario for either of these two good-guys, and the brevity of the fight made content hard-pressed to be worthwhile .... feh, simply no inspiration to post what I wrote for that one, sorry Caterane and Sindorin, but beleive me it was for the best for all three of us. (I'll make it up to both of you in later fights) Hopefully this week will harbor more inspiration...
Sindorin 03-09-05, 02:20 PM	heh, no big deal, I didn't write one for your character either.
Jindl 03-09-05, 02:33 PM	@Huan - Wanna write one for Odin vs Flower? It felt like an epic fight when running it, and I think there are some great allusions to Norse Myth, what with Odin + Sleipner being attacked by powerful wolves and all.
OdinTheReaper 03-09-05, 03:00 PM	:love: THAT WOULD ROCK! and :bow: i would bow down....then :pint: PARTY!
Huan 03-09-05, 03:27 PM	@Huan - Wanna write one for Odin vs Flower? It felt like an epic fight when running it, and I think there are some great allusions to Norse Myth, what with Odin + Sleipner being attacked by powerful wolves and all. Yeah, it would have been amusing if one of the wolves had been named Fenrir, heh heh (total reverse on the tale). Sure, why not... I'll see what I can come up with. ;)