Post/Author/DateTime	Post
McJarvis 02-20-08, 09:44 AM	Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. News and Whatnot New Rulings - Courtroom It takes a standard action to call an animal into the wondrous item, "Bag of Tricks". This may be done over any distance. Animals from the wondrous item "Bag of Tricks" are treated as summoned animals for the purposes of "Protection from [Law/Chaos/Evil/Good]" spells. Psicrystals can not use the power "Synesthete" due to a lack of face. Touchsight can not detect a creature with the "Cerebral Blind" ability from the Slayer prestige class. The Council Decisions/Revelations The Credit system is still under review. If you have any strong opinions on the credit system, you should go and leave some input. Especially since this will likely be decided on because... Two new elders have arrived- CrazyArtificer and Hirumajoe. They are replacements for Macbrea and Vath. The Fights of the Week Thread will from now on contain updates to what is happening in the Council and Courtroom. We need/desire a newspaper. Anyone who wants to try their hand at writing stories about Gladius should step up for the job. Rule #1 about "Pick Who Is Going To Be An Elder Club"? You don't talk about "Pick Who Is Going To Be An Elder Club". You should always try to improve Gladius, regardless of whether you're an elder! Current Topics Spell Resistance discussions have been renewed- more specifically whether monsters/PC's always improve SR with increased hit dice. There is some debate of what kinds of situations the "Madness" domain helps you and hurts you. Check out the Courtroom and Council to join in all the fun! Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindWandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
McJarvis 02-20-08, 12:25 PM	Wow- ECL5 is really heating up this week. I like it better when I can't plan specifically against certain opponents :) Hopefully we'll get out of this SoE- I just bumped my fightload to 3.
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 12:36 PM	Well - I am back to pitlording again as well, so hopefully the State of Emergency will be lifted. ECL5 though? Well Vallgar's crafting for me, but I don't remember - did I activate either of my elementalists?
MindWandererB 02-20-08, 12:49 PM	Elders are chosen on the positive attributes of candidates and never the negative attributes of candidates.This is actually untrue. We just don't like to talk about the negative attributes in public--no reason to be insulting.
Stormwind 02-20-08, 01:21 PM	Wow- ECL5 is really heating up this week. I like it better when I can't plan specifically against certain opponents :) Hopefully we'll get out of this SoE- I just bumped my fightload to 3. I too like it when you can't plan for specific opponents, it's actually why I like monster fights ... but then I suppose I'm one of the only players who does ;)
McJarvis 02-20-08, 01:30 PM	This is actually untrue. We just don't like to talk about the negative attributes in public--no reason to be insulting. It was indeed supposed to be funny :-) ...edited for truthiness and funnyness acuity.
Stormwind 02-20-08, 01:36 PM	@Crazy, dulsi: The quest thread (for Morro and Eland) is up here.
McJarvis 02-20-08, 01:51 PM	Well - I am back to pitlording again as well, so hopefully the State of Emergency will be lifted. ECL5 though? Well Vallgar's crafting for me, but I don't remember - did I activate either of my elementalists? At least two ECL4's leveled up this week and are heading into the brackets, a few folks who haven't been activating activated, and then Minaeu and Thorell are both active. That leaves at least 3 1v1 fights- if not more.
MindWandererB 02-20-08, 01:57 PM	It was indeed supposed to be funny :-) ...edited for truthiness and funnyness acuity. Fair enough. I was hoping that with Rith's campaign over, ECL 13 would have a lot of activity... but it seems I'm alone there.
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 01:58 PM	Well - I updated Dentik anyway. On another note, I remembered that I wanted to send Aquin on a quest, so he'll be sacrificing himself for the next two weeks to anyone who wants to kick his behind... EDIT: Another one of those weeks where I'm not paying attention and then half of the people I have on the roster are activated... S'lertak - active Berri - not active Darrgon - not active Vallgar - crafting Dentik - active Ialgo - not active Bulgar - active Aquin - active Sir Valkin - not active Kraegin - crafting
McJarvis 02-20-08, 02:18 PM	Looks like 10 gladiators active at ECL5. Should be a good week. Much more than I initially estimated, at least.
hogarth 02-20-08, 02:28 PM	I too like it when you can't plan for specific opponents, it's actually why I like monster fights ... but then I suppose I'm one of the only players who does ;) I like monster fights too...in the form of quests and campaigns. I don't like them when they're just providing useless busy work for a single player and a pitlord.
Hirumajoe 02-20-08, 02:37 PM	Fair enough. I was hoping that with Rith's campaign over, ECL 13 would have a lot of activity... but it seems I'm alone there. I could always swap Altair or Kai for Valen I suppose... I'd need to update him though.
Stormwind 02-20-08, 02:46 PM	@mucki, MindWandererB: The separate thread playtest fight for the three of us is up here ... Game on ;)
Salrantol 02-20-08, 02:50 PM	Looks like 10 gladiators active at ECL5. Should be a good week. Much more than I initially estimated, at least.ECL 5? Bah! ECL 8's where the party's at this week.
McJarvis 02-20-08, 02:52 PM	ECL 5? Bah! ECL 8's where the party's at this week. Apparently everyone got the wrong house :)
whitebaron 02-20-08, 02:58 PM	ECL 5? Bah! ECL 8's where the party's at this week. well, thats just because your party is already that crowded - you don't even need an opponent to fill all the mapper's pins... :)
McJarvis 02-20-08, 03:03 PM	Oh, was Sal challenging all of ECL5 with enoch? I didn't realize it was a challenge ;) We may need a bigger map than we currently have, though.
Zevox 02-20-08, 03:05 PM	I was hoping that with Rith's campaign over, ECL 13 would have a lot of activity... but it seems I'm alone there. Sorry MWB - I'd have activated Istima there, but school has been murder this week (five papers due in 4 days + a test + normal reading = nil free time), so I just didn't have time to update him thanks to the amount of cash he has for me to decide upon purchases with. I barely had time to level up Asran last night. Ah well, sitting out this week won't be too bad. Might be able to use the time I normally use on tactics finally completing that Gnome Sorcerer I was working on a month or so ago. Zevox
SoulLord 02-20-08, 03:08 PM	Fair enough. I was hoping that with Rith's campaign over, ECL 13 would have a lot of activity... but it seems I'm alone there. We need some time to buy some Greater bolts of MindWandererB Character slaying before we activate them :)
lonewolf 02-20-08, 03:09 PM	We may need a bigger map than we currently have, though. + a crazy pitlord who volunteers for running that fight :rolleyes:
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 03:13 PM	We need some time to buy some Greater bolts of MindWandererB Character slaying before we activate them :) Better make them brilliant energy - because AC40 is going to be a fun AC to hit...
MindWandererB 02-20-08, 03:24 PM	Better make them brilliant energy - because AC40 is going to be a fun AC to hit... 41 with Inertial Armor--45 if I need it with Force Screen. Oh, and you'll need invisibility or something, too, due to Deflect Arrows.
lonewolf 02-20-08, 03:30 PM	41 with Inertial Armor--45 if I need it with Force Screen. Oh, and you'll need invisibility or something, too, due to Deflect Arrows. damn I can get Samuels AC "only" to 42. :rolleyes: on the plus side, his Touch AC is just as high. :D
McJarvis 02-20-08, 03:32 PM	on the plus side, his Touch AC is just as high. :D In the end touch is all that matters anyway ;)
SoulLord 02-20-08, 03:32 PM	*takes notes* ok so it would be a ranged touch attack while invisible :)
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 03:33 PM	41 with Inertial Armor--45 if I need it with Force Screen. Oh, and you'll need invisibility or something, too, due to Deflect Arrows. It got me curious... At ECL13, Aquin will have 6 racial HD and 1 Fighter level. He'll be large size with a strength of 36 (+13), unless I decide to boost it with a belt or glove. With his talons then, he'll be attacking at +20 [+7BAB, +13 str, -1 size, +1 enh] four times for 1d8+14 - but still need a 20 to hit your "unbuffed" AC... On the other side - I'll have to make sure to hit with my deepcrystal nets to help reduce your ability to move (though I suppose the escape artist checks with your +14 dex modifier will be no problem...)... I guess I'll need to see about this by the time I catch up (which is to say... never).
McJarvis 02-20-08, 03:33 PM	*takes notes* ok so it would be a ranged touch attack while invisible :) flat-footed touch is still 19. He's a tough cookie.
Hirumajoe 02-20-08, 03:33 PM	41 with Inertial Armor--45 if I need it with Force Screen. Oh, and you'll need invisibility or something, too, due to Deflect Arrows. Hmm... Crystal shards from hiding? Thats up against a what, 20 AC? Although that Monk Dire Bat still has crazy good listen/spot checks. Clearly need to upgrade to the +15 to Hide armor on Valen, which should put him around +19+15+10 = +44 hide, +24 when attacking. Still only 50/50-ish even then. Could always for the 20s battle. Buff Valen up to AC 40 while Besthirah is up at 45. :) Edit: Dumb question, what's Samuel's max AC on the Ethereal plane? I presume he doesn't count as incorporeal there and loses his deflection bonus due to Charisma.
Rauul 02-20-08, 03:38 PM	ECl 6 should be a fun fight.. shadow and Two-fister, both in their last fight...
whitebaron 02-20-08, 03:39 PM	ECl 6 should be a fun fight.. shadow and Two-fister, both in their last fight... hehe, yeah, and i only had him active accidentally. ;)
Rauul 02-20-08, 03:40 PM	hehe, yeah, and i only had him active accidentally. ;) Thats great... no monster fight :)
lonewolf 02-20-08, 03:47 PM	Edit: Dumb question, what's Samuel's max AC on the Ethereal plane? I presume he doesn't count as incorporeal there and loses his deflection bonus due to Charisma. correct. fortunately the only ways for non-ghosts to become ethereal are Ethereal Jaunt and the combination of Plane Shift & Teleport. I dont really expect anyone to have one of these methods prepared for the chance of fighting Samuel.
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 03:50 PM	Except for Kraegin of course... when he has his nightmare planar ally at ECL12...
MindWandererB 02-20-08, 03:52 PM	correct. fortunately the only ways for non-ghosts to become ethereal are Ethereal Jaunt and the combination of Plane Shift & Teleport. I dont really expect anyone to have one of these methods prepared for the chance of fighting Samuel. Not to mention, then they become wholly ethereal and need to win in 10 rounds.
Zevox 02-20-08, 03:58 PM	correct. fortunately the only ways for non-ghosts to become ethereal are Ethereal Jaunt and the combination of Plane Shift & Teleport. I dont really expect anyone to have one of these methods prepared for the chance of fighting Samuel. You might want to rethink that one - Istima is picking up Ethereal Jaunt next level, and with Samuel's deflection bonus to AC and incorporeal benefits gone, he'd be easy pickings for the little Goblin. He'll probably level next week, too. Zevox
dulsi 02-20-08, 03:59 PM	Another one of those weeks where I'm not paying attention and then half of the people I have on the roster are activated... How is it you have that much time? I had trouble finding the time to update two characters. Orgauth still doesn't have a name for his bat.
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 04:03 PM	Simple - I generally update the characters whenever they are ready to do so after a fight's been posted. Then at a later time, if I decide to activate them - I just update it on the fly. And sometimes - that means I updated three of the characters a month ago (Aquin hasn't been active for a month or more) and then decide to activate an extra one here and there. Then Wednesday comes along and I've activated one or two more. And then pairings come along and I've used 6-7 activations... oh - and Orgauth's bat is now named "Bright Eyes"
Rauul 02-20-08, 04:05 PM	How is it you have that much time? I had trouble finding the time to update two characters. Orgauth still doesn't have a name for his bat. A name for a Bat... NoiseBites
Rauul 02-20-08, 04:06 PM	Except for Kraegin of course... when he has his nightmare planar ally at ECL12... telin.. do you have a list somewhere of all your characters??
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 04:11 PM	Why yes I do Rauul - it is in my pitlord profile. I include entries for ones I haven't posted yet either. I should probably update it since there's been some developments there too... EDIT - done. Apparently I'm up to 42 PCs on my list and 7 mercs...
Hirumajoe 02-20-08, 04:15 PM	correct. fortunately the only ways for non-ghosts to become ethereal are Ethereal Jaunt and the combination of Plane Shift & Teleport. I dont really expect anyone to have one of these methods prepared for the chance of fighting Samuel. Actually, an investment of 28,500 gp into an Obsidian Steed (possibly with 5 credits spent to change "good" to "evil" in its description) isn't all that much. Ethereal at will can be handy for buffs. Or going through walls. Flight doesn't hurt either. Hmm....
Rauul 02-20-08, 04:16 PM	Why yes I do Rauul - it is in my pitlord profile. I include entries for ones I haven't posted yet either. I should probably update it since there's been some developments there too... EDIT - done. Apparently I'm up to 42 PCs on my list and 7 mercs... 42 pc's..... WTH dude you have your own party x7 there :)
MindWandererB 02-20-08, 04:16 PM	Pairings are done. Plenty of pitlords this week... at least, for ECLs 3-5. Fortunately those were the busiest. Credits: CrazyArtificer F3 A-1 Q-1 dulsi F1 Q-1 Erithmu F1 A1 Hirumajoe F1 McJarvis F3 mucki F2 Sjiggie F1 TelinArtho F3 A1 A-4 templer10 F3 Turanson F1 whitebaron F2 A-2 MindWandererB A2 A-2 SauroGrenom A1 Stormwind Q2
hogarth 02-20-08, 04:16 PM	fortunately the only ways for non-ghosts to become ethereal are Ethereal Jaunt and the combination of Plane Shift & Teleport. Or the spell Blink. Or an Obsidian Steed/Goat of Terror/Nightmare. Or maybe using Metamorphic Transfer when turned into an Ethereal Filcher, Xill, etc. <-- These ones are less likely, though.
Rauul 02-20-08, 04:17 PM	Actually, an investment of 28,500 gp into an Obsidian Steed (possibly with 5 credits spent to change "good" to "evil" in its description) isn't all that much. Ethereal at will can be handy for buffs. Or going through walls. Flight doesn't hurt either. Hmm.... mutter... there you go seeing my idea... was planing on buying one for shadow and Graak just for that reason :)
Erithmu 02-20-08, 04:23 PM	@MWB: ... I'm getting tired of trying to kill that bat ... Opponent: Large sized, humanoid shaped
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 04:25 PM	42 pc's..... WTH dude you have your own party x7 there :) For the record those are the ones that made it on to my list. I certainly have more that never made it on to that list - but those were much less complete. For instance, Iz'il Datramin could be posted and activated today. Dulitol Stronghammer (Bulgar's successor should Bulgar die on an upcoming quest...) does not make it onto the list because he's not able to be posted and activated today. And of course, a number of those that used to be active could not be activated today for any number of rules changes. But I have been here for a very long time and, outside of the CoCo, I haven't been a player for a very long time - so this was really my only outlet as a player for a while.
CrazyArtificer 02-20-08, 04:27 PM	[color=#6000FF]Pairings are done. Plenty of pitlords this week... at least, for ECLs 3-5. Fortunately those were the busiest. Silly question.. rewards for team fights are the same of standard ones?
Turanson 02-20-08, 04:31 PM	@Callix,Durzulgor,lonewolf,CrazyArtifice r I've sent you a Pm to infom you that the strikethrough in Mineaus sheet is a mistake and that he should have all spells ready.
MindWandererB 02-20-08, 04:32 PM	Silly question.. rewards for team fights are the same of standard ones? Essentially. If your opponents incur a bonus to you, you average it out, but if you incur a penalty or bonus to yourself, you get the whole thing.
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 04:34 PM	For the most part - yes. Essentially each member of the team gets half of the exp for killing both of the opponents. Allies are applied individually though. So if Player A and B oppose Player C and D and Player A has a 25% ally and Player C has a 10% ally it would work out like this: Player A's rewards are reduced by 20% (25% penalty for his ally, 10%/2 bonus for Player C's ally)) Player B's rewards are increased by 5% (10%/2 bonus for Player C's ally) Player C's rewards are increased by 2.5% (10% penalty, 25%/2 bonus) Player D's rewards are increased by 12.5% (25%/2 bonus)
whitebaron 02-20-08, 04:35 PM	examples on xp: a+b vs 1+2 a has a horse (10%), b has a cohort (25%) 1 and 2 both get (10+25)/2 % bonus. a gets -10% penalty, b -25% penalty edit: hehe, mass-exampling.
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 04:36 PM	@Sauro - Raskos' monster info has been posted.
CrazyArtificer 02-20-08, 04:36 PM	Thanks both. Is it possible to add it to the Rules thread? Edit: thanks to wb, as well.
whitebaron 02-20-08, 04:39 PM	Thanks both. Is it possible to add it to the Rules thread? Edit: thanks to wb, as well. it is in the rules thread. ;) but the examples are not good enough i believe, as i had troubles reading into the rules myself when i first did that. @mwb: should i list some 20 examples or so for reference on this? also, i believe the rules should/could be clarified, as the currently 3 points and examples are rather misleading.
CrazyArtificer 02-20-08, 04:42 PM	Well, I did check under battle types and it is not there.. if it's in the rewards or pitlording section it could be useful to add a link from the battles description..
Rauul 02-20-08, 04:46 PM	@Turanson Tactics for wolf-claw sent.. PM me with any questions... Shadows Tactics will be sent tonight or tomorrow... need to think about two fister...
MindWandererB 02-20-08, 04:48 PM	It's in the section on Allies, which is where all explanations of XP penalties/bonuses are. In Multiplayer Fights, one of the participants might bring in an ally. The penalty for bringing in an ally always applies only to the one who brought it in. The reward bonus for the ally is always evenly distributed among all opponents of the character with the ally.How are the examples misleading?
whitebaron 02-20-08, 04:56 PM	Well, I did check under battle types and it is not there.. if it's in the rewards or pitlording section it could be useful to add a link from the battles description.. actually, it is in battles I, with a link like that: Rewards are modified if you or your opponent brought in allies (see Rules: Allies I), and is even hyperlinked. i agree that is not the best thing to do. ;) --- edit after 5 minutes of waiting for gleemax to work again: the examples are a) simple, and b) don't really cover everything. also, you could easily write the basic rules for the xp penalties and then give other, more generalized examples. also note, that the examples use interleague or FFA as examples, which is misleading since it makes you believe the rewards could work differently in different fight-types.
SoulLord 02-20-08, 04:59 PM	flat-footed touch is still 19. He's a tough cookie. 19? mmmm care to break that down? 10 base -1 size
Erithmu 02-20-08, 05:04 PM	19? mmmm care to break that down? 10 base -1 size+5 Deflection +2 monk +3 wisdom
whitebaron 02-20-08, 05:04 PM	monk bonus applies even when flatfooted, deflection applies against both touch and flat-attacks. but i agree, she could use uncanny dodge for a flat-touch ac of 30.
CrazyArtificer 02-20-08, 05:05 PM	actually, it is in battles I, with a link like that: and is even hyperlinked. i agree that is not the best thing to do. ;) Well, I'd like to have things a bit more clear. For example, it's not a lot of work adding a line or two to the battle description which says "remember to check Allies: I in case any of the team fight characters has an ally." Maybe it's not needed, but saves time. Actually I believe a revision could be useful for the whole rules thread, to add more information and less flipping between posts whenever possible. I volunteer for that, if other members agrees.
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 05:08 PM	In general, if anyone feels there's a section of rules that needs to be reworded to be made clearer - make a suggestion on how to reword it. It doesn't hurt to make the suggestion, and if it does end up being used, it is used to make the CoCo a better place. For many of the older players around here - I doubt we look much at the rules thread - so it is easy for us to just ignore it.
Rauul 02-20-08, 05:18 PM	In general, if anyone feels there's a section of rules that needs to be reworded to be made clearer - make a suggestion on how to reword it. It doesn't hurt to make the suggestion, and if it does end up being used, it is used to make the CoCo a better place. For many of the older players around here - I doubt we look much at the rules thread - so it is easy for us to just ignore it. Well the one section that needs cleaned up/combined ect.. is Allies.. with the changes that have been made over the last year i get lost in there.. I was thinking of making a Insect Druid (like Niqil's) and I can't find rules for getting/training vermin pets..
Stormwind 02-20-08, 05:19 PM	hmmmm ... just noticed that Varjo will be facing Aquin this week ... that's one fish with a hell of a lot of strength to get through ... almost as much strength as HP ... Varjo looks warily at her opponent as she waits for the arena officials to teleport them out to the plains for their upcoming fight. Well good luck Telin. I have a feeling this one will be interesting ...
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 05:29 PM	hmmmm ... just noticed that Varjo will be facing Aquin this week ... that's one fish with a hell of a lot of strength to get through ... almost as much strength as HP ... Varjo looks warily at her opponent as she waits for the arena officials to teleport them out to the plains for their upcoming fight. Well good luck Telin. I have a feeling this one will be interesting ... Indeed. But personally - I'm expecting to lose...
Rauul 02-20-08, 05:40 PM	@Sjiggie tactics for shadow sent.. this could get interesting Pm me with any Questions
SoulLord 02-20-08, 06:41 PM	+5 Deflection +2 monk +3 wisdom ah right Monk AC Bonus (Ex) When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load. mmmmm I wonder is theres a way to give the character armor
dulsi 02-20-08, 07:11 PM	@whitebaron: Orgauth's tactics have been sent "That thing wants to fight me." Orgauth starts laughing. "Does it even know how to use what it is carrying? My tribe forced them out of Dismal Swamp. Figures they now stay near the Nimbus where the weak cower and hide."
Rauul 02-20-08, 07:24 PM	ah right mmmmm I wonder is theres a way to give the character armor use pick pocket on him... and drop 40,000 copper coins down his pants.. should encumber him
TelinArtho 02-20-08, 10:48 PM	Orc scum haven't been in Luna Marsh since we ate the last tribe 400 years ago. Perhaps your ancestors would do well to learn you of that lesson later...
Huan 02-20-08, 11:09 PM	We need/desire a newspaper. Anyone who wants to try their hand at writing stories about Gladius should step up for the job. I'd like to flex my arm and give a shot at that. Who can I contact? Qualifications: -Was original Scribelords -As former Elder, helped write up World of Gladius -Compiled original Tales of Gladius Thread -Like to write -Questlording -Huan
MindWandererB 02-20-08, 11:54 PM	That would be me--and you'd be most welcome. What I'm really looking for is an editor-in-chief: someone to not necessarily write articles, but to get other people to write them, and to compile them weekly. For instance, you can put one person in charge of doing surveys like Cat used to do (like the most popular races or armor types), another in charge of the Gladiator of the Week, and so on. That way, no one is overworked, but we still get all the recurring columns that make the newspaper enjoyable. Of course, the editor-in-chief can be one of the writers as well, but the Newspaper has fallen apart in the past because one person has tried to write all five or six articles a week, and no one had time for that for very long.
CrazyArtificer 02-21-08, 07:22 AM	And Huan, if you'd need help for an article or two count on me as well.
Salrantol 02-21-08, 07:35 AM	@McJarvis: Tactics for Felice tu`Ria vs. The Dark One sent via PM. @TelinArtho: Tactics for Enoch the Prophet vs. The Eternal Dreamless Sleep sent via PM.
TelinArtho 02-21-08, 09:56 AM	Okay - all of my tactics have been sent. Good luck to my opponents.
TelinArtho 02-21-08, 10:12 AM	@MWB/The Dread Dormammu: Snaga (The Dread Dormammu) crafts Slippers of Spider Climbing (2400) and Gloves of Arrow Snaring (2000) [Week 1/1] Slippers of Spider Climbing are 4800gp market and Gloves of Arrow Snaring are 4000gp market. This should be a 2-week crafting job.
lonewolf 02-21-08, 11:37 AM	@Hirumajoe: Im still waiting on monster Info for Therador and Im not sure if I will be able to write tactics before the deadline at this point since I am pretty busy this tonight and tomorrow.
whitebaron 02-21-08, 12:07 PM	@Hirumajoe: Im still waiting on monster Info for Therador and Im not sure if I will be able to write tactics before the deadline at this point since I am pretty busy this tonight and tomorrow. busy? you mean DEAD. ;) *dmdicerolling*
Stormwind 02-21-08, 12:10 PM	@templer10: Varjo's tactics are sent.
McJarvis 02-21-08, 12:17 PM	tactics for thorell are sent.
Sjiggie 02-21-08, 12:46 PM	Tactics for Gradak sent via PM Still waiting for Gwerdan's tactics and I'm planning to run it on Saturday. Sjiggie
Hirumajoe 02-21-08, 01:27 PM	@Lonewolf: I'm not going to be holding you to deadline on tactics. If you get them to me by Monday, I'll still be able to run it. Your monster info is now up. And may the dice gods have mercy on Therador's half-dragon soul. As far as I can tell, you cannot mechanically win. (Its interesting to note I had to re-roll the initial monster, a stone golem, because it was an auto-loss, only to get the exact opposite, an auto-win...)
SauroGrenom 02-21-08, 01:30 PM	@Lonewolf: I'm not going to be holding you to deadline on tactics. If you get them to me by Monday, I'll still be able to run it. Your monster info is now up. And may the dice gods have mercy on Therador's half-dragon soul. As far as I can tell, you cannot physically win. Yea... ECL11 3 swarms... Go look at the list, and that can be only one thing. That's going to be bloody. At least you're not ECL13, then the swarms are ghosts! Go figure that one.
MindWandererB 02-21-08, 02:43 PM	@MWB/The Dread Dormammu: Snaga (The Dread Dormammu) crafts Slippers of Spider Climbing (2400) and Gloves of Arrow Snaring (2000) [Week 1/1] Slippers of Spider Climbing are 4800gp market and Gloves of Arrow Snaring are 4000gp market. This should be a 2-week crafting job. Thanks... I usually catch those, but I didn't know the prices for those off the top of my head.
MindWandererB 02-21-08, 04:33 PM	Disclosure and Clarification: @Rith, Sauro, templer: I seem to have omitted Gak's 3FC information from his last fight. It's all correct within the body of the sheet, however, so you're not missing anything. Also: I note that Sir Lordrum hasn't prebuffed his cohort. I'm assuming that's an omission, and that the cohort will be there. Edit: @mucki, CrazyArtificer, templer, and Rith: tactics are out. One I don't think I can win, one I don't think I can lose, one that should be simple but I don't know how it will turn out, and one that should be utter madness that I also can't predict.
templer10 02-21-08, 06:19 PM	Disclosure and Clarification: @Rith, Sauro, templer: I seem to have omitted Gak's 3FC information from his last fight. It's all correct within the body of the sheet, however, so you're not missing anything. Also: I note that Sir Lordrum hasn't prebuffed his cohort. I'm assuming that's an omission, and that the cohort will be there. Edit: @mucki, CrazyArtificer, templer, and Rith: tactics are out. One I don't think I can win, one I don't think I can lose, one that should be simple but I don't know how it will turn out, and one that should be utter madness that I also can't predict. I hope the Trio plans on getting tactics to me early - becuase i just see this is going to be "fun" to run... On another note - mcjarvis - tactics for the dark one vs yet another kineticist are out.
lonewolf 02-21-08, 06:53 PM	@Lonewolf: I'm not going to be holding you to deadline on tactics. If you get them to me by Monday, I'll still be able to run it. Your monster info is now up. And may the dice gods have mercy on Therador's half-dragon soul. As far as I can tell, you cannot mechanically win. (Its interesting to note I had to re-roll the initial monster, a stone golem, because it was an auto-loss, only to get the exact opposite, an auto-win...) Therador surrenders. :censored:
whitebaron 02-22-08, 03:49 AM	tactics for my fights have all been received. tactics for my fights have all been sent.
CrazyArtificer 02-22-08, 06:28 AM	Bulgar vs Flutterthought (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15153419&postcount=1755) is up. Not much you could do, Telin.
mucki 02-22-08, 06:36 AM	At my gladiators: all tactics received. I have sent requests for clarifications to all except wb, but nothing serious, so if i don't get answers by saturday i'll just go with my own interpretations.
TelinArtho 02-22-08, 10:04 AM	Bulgar vs Flutterthought (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15153419&postcount=1755) is up. Not much you could do, Telin. Actually - there was plenty I could have done - but I just failed in writing them in my tactics. Meh - Bulgar advances anyway so the important thing is out of the way. One more fight and then: Here Dragon dragon... Thanks for the run.
TelinArtho 02-22-08, 11:00 AM	Although I'm pretty lenient about my own deadlines - I figured it bears mentioning that I have only received one set of tactics so far. Missing Raskos's tactics and The Eternal Dreamless Sleep's tactics.
Turanson 02-22-08, 11:03 AM	Lucifer vs. Wolf-Claw is up.
Erithmu 02-22-08, 12:11 PM	Tactics for Theil's Loyal Retainers finalized and sent. (with minor addendum after the fact)
Rauul 02-22-08, 12:53 PM	Lucifer vs. Wolf-Claw is up. thanks for the run... wasn't expecting a bow shoot out
templer10 02-22-08, 01:41 PM	Although I'm pretty lenient about my own deadlines - I figured it bears mentioning that I have only received one set of tactics so far. Missing Raskos's tactics and The Eternal Dreamless Sleep's tactics. EDS tactics sent.
TelinArtho 02-22-08, 01:43 PM	Received - thanks. Not sure when I'll get to the fights this week, but at least I'm not sick anymore...
CrazyArtificer 02-22-08, 01:45 PM	I'm still waiting for 3 tactics out of 4 in the team fight.
MindWandererB 02-22-08, 03:37 PM	Bulgar vs Flutterthought (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15153419&postcount=1755) is up. Not much you could do, Telin. I would have actually argued against myself in this case: when the animal proves to be 100% ineffective, Flutterthought is delaying while she waits for the Prot. Evil to wear off. On the other hand, all she has to do it take a potshot every once in a while to avoid that. And since Telin is okay with the fight as is, there's no need to change anything. Sorry about not being proactive on that one--I totally forgot about the recent Bag of Tricks ruling. Of course, the alternative would be sniping, which would be even harder on the pitlord....
McJarvis 02-22-08, 03:43 PM	Sorry about not being proactive on that one--I totally forgot about the recent Bag of Tricks ruling. Which is ironic, because this is the first week we put that in the FotW thread in an attempt to keep people informed :)
TelinArtho 02-22-08, 03:47 PM	Well - I didn't argue because I really had no way to argue that you weren't engaging me. You are right that you would've just had to take pot shots though. Ironically, I think if I had been a little more on the offensive (Enlarge, Bull's strength, spiritual weapon) - I think I would've had a decent shot at downing more than a couple of the animals - leaving you with fewer charges for your last fight. Meh - I just didn't do that fight right at all...
MindWandererB 02-22-08, 03:57 PM	Ironically, I think if I had been a little more on the offensive (Enlarge, Bull's strength, spiritual weapon) - I think I would've had a decent shot at downing more than a couple of the animals - leaving you with fewer charges for your last fight. Meh - I just didn't do that fight right at all...And the point of that would have been? Two animals and a full load of PP ought to be more than enough resources to take out anything unless thay kill me first.
TelinArtho 02-22-08, 04:06 PM	Well - if I was able to get through all of the animals - it would have been enough to force you to engage me (again - shooting arrows or whatever). But you don't have too many arrows - and I had plenty of SLs to burn for healing. It doesn't really matter - Bulgar's not a great opponent for you to face. I just think if I had planned better, I would have finished better. And of course, if I had had Magic Circle memorized - it would have been different too (50 minutes duration...)
CrazyArtificer 02-23-08, 09:07 AM	Durzulgor, I still miss your tactics.
mucki 02-23-08, 09:34 AM	Lucifer vs. Wolf-Claw is up. Thank you for the fight. A lucky win :). Since it is in my tactics, I think it is fair if you add a second pp for a 2nd force screen. It won't change nay of the rolls, but changes my pp left for fight 3. Remark for the future: You should (actually I think you have to) provide coordinates of the characters in the status lines (maps would be even better). Without them its impossible to replay the fight (checking cover, etc ...).
mucki 02-23-08, 09:37 AM	Thorell vs. Lelenia is up. Very weird rolls for both of you, sorry about that. @Mcj: I realized when posting the fight that I forgot to add the +1 attack and ride for cover stuff, even though you specifically reminded me in the tactics. Since you win anyway I will only edit it in if you really want me to.
whitebaron 02-23-08, 11:43 AM	Thorell vs. Lelenia is up. Very weird rolls for both of you, sorry about that. @Mcj: I realized when posting the fight that I forgot to add the +1 attack and ride for cover stuff, even though you specifically reminded me in the tactics. Since you win anyway I will only edit it in if you really want me to. well, protection from evil pretty much turns the bag of tricks down to nothingness.... :( about the tanglefoot bag: i would have specified "camel", if i wanted to hit the camel with it? ;) the idea was to frighten the animal away so i can get some more shots in, or force thorell to dismount, then keep thorell from following me. with web up, there'd be no need to do this, and i'd rather move more into the web than go out to attack. ;) Use the bow myself, and try to keep at range. having a web between us is not perfect, but will suffice. i'd rather stay in and shoot my bow. ps: the maps are not working right now in firefox. @mcj: i said it once, i'll say it again... very cheesy that character. would drop dead in my first or second dm-ing session ;)
McJarvis 02-23-08, 11:51 AM	@mcj: i said it once, i'll say it again... very cheesy that character. would drop dead in my first or second dm-ing session ;) He's a bit different at table top. Drop the camel[speed is less important anyway] and buff spells for the most part, add in things like false life, eventually vampric touches, and wraith strikes(!). Then feat-wise swap out scribe scroll for combat expertise(using wizard combat variant), improved sunder for improved initiative or quickdraw, and you're pretty much set. Later on he'll take arcane strike as well...at table top the point is to use as many spell slots as possible as quick actions that augment combat, then have lots of utility spells like divinations, teleporting, etc, etc. :-) He has a little bit of trouble surviving from ECL 3-5, but once he hits 6 and gets his vampric touches he's good to go. I played straight from ECL1 to ECL16, and he's just a blast due to his adaptability and how he can "slow play" combat, thus letting the rest of the party look like the real threat. The DM never even caught on that wraith strike was powerful, because I think I only full-attacked with it once the entire campaign.
whitebaron 02-23-08, 11:53 AM	He's a bit different at table top. Drop the camel[speed is less important anyway] and buff spells for the most part, add in things like false life, eventually vampric touches, and wraith strikes(!). Then feat-wise swap out scribe scroll for combat expertise, improved sunder for improved initiative or quickdraw, and you're pretty much set. so basically, he's a complete different fighter ;)
McJarvis 02-23-08, 11:59 AM	so basically, he's a complete different fighter ;) indeed :) Tabletop is a completely different beast from CoCo, and most of his feat-choices are either noncore and illegal, or practically useless in CoCo.
whitebaron 02-23-08, 12:01 PM	ah, and what i forgot: look at the image of Lelenia again, please. looks like a him, right? ;) thorell might be a female stat-wise, but lelenia is so every day of her life.
McJarvis 02-23-08, 12:04 PM	RE: Fight: Thanks for the run Mucki. There were alot of things I forgot about(like buffed stats for camel- his damage has a higher roll and mod)...I meant to say the mage armor thing in the tactics & forgot to. It was listed for when I prebuffed mage armor earlier in the cycle. I probably should have specified that I wield my axe two-handed practically always when I have nothing to lose by doing so...I think the damage you used was one-handed. Ah well, live and learn. And WB- thanks for the kind words on the build. edit- Does alterself really give racial bonus feats & natural weapons? O_O edit2- Also at WB: since the camel had pro:evil on him, he was immune to cause fear. I dunno if you knew that...[I guess it could make him shakened?]
whitebaron 02-23-08, 12:15 PM	Ah well, live and learn. And WB- thanks for the kind words on the build. edit- Does alterself really give racial bonus feats & natural weapons? O_O edit2- Also at WB: since the camel had pro:evil on him, he was immune to cause fear. I dunno if you knew that...[I guess it could make him shakened?] 1) kind - where? ;) 2) the spell itself even says so, so i won't say no. :) 3) it never occured to me that protection from evil would be used. ;) but about the fear: no, didn't occur to me, but i also think you're wrong about that. cause fear is a necromantic effect, not an enchantment...
McJarvis 02-23-08, 12:21 PM	1) kind - where? ;) 2) the spell itself even says so, so i won't say no. :) 3) it never occured to me that protection from evil would be used. ;) but about the fear: no, didn't occur to me, but i also think you're wrong about that. cause fear is a necromantic effect, not an enchantment... It's a mind-affecting affect. PfE prevents all attempts to exercise control over the creatures actions...and then it says including enchantment stuff. I don't see why necromancy mind-affecting abilities would be differently. Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). I don't see "including" as language that restricts the spell. edit- I understand why PfE does what it does- because the game is meant for tabletop. But dang it's powerful in CoCo's environment...
whitebaron 02-23-08, 12:28 PM	well, causing fear is not exactly the same as exercising mental control. with that interpretation, spells like powerword: blind or crushing despair should be hedged out by PfE as well, and those are specifically covered in the faq.
McJarvis 02-23-08, 12:30 PM	well, causing fear is not exactly the same as exercising mental control. with that interpretation, spells like powerword: blind or curshing despair should be hedged out by PfE as well, and those are specifically covered in the faq. The the spell has been clarified to include things like Tasha's Hideous Laughter and Sleep- anything that takes over your actions. I'd include running in fear in that category. [not the shaken part, though] edit- I'm not saying it wouldn't suffer the penalties- just that it wouldn't "flee as best it can"
whitebaron 02-23-08, 12:43 PM	by that logic - protection from evil helps against -binding (lvl 1 spell defeats lvl 8 spell) -cause fear -color spray (mind-affecting!) -fear -feeblemind -power word blind/stun ?
McJarvis 02-23-08, 12:47 PM	by that logic - protection from evil helps against -binding (lvl 1 spell defeats lvl 8 spell) -cause fear -color spray (mind-affecting!) -fear -feeblemind -power word blind/stun ? Only for the parts of those spells that specifically inhabit actions. For instance- binding can chain you up, which doesn't inhibit your actions. [you can still take move/standard actions to get out of the chains]. Blindness doesn't inhibit actions either. whereas sleep makes you lose your actions tasha's hideous laughter makes you lose actions cause fear(by making you run away) causes you to lose actions. Basically- PfE gives you mental control over your own body. I'm guessing for any spell that is complex(like binding), a full court workup would have to be written. edit/ps- as far as a low level spell negating a high level spell, there are just too many examples of this to count.
lonewolf 02-23-08, 01:04 PM	Cause Fear doesnt cause you to run away. Cause fear bestows the frightened condition on you. The frightened condition causes you to run away.
McJarvis 02-23-08, 01:11 PM	Cause Fear doesnt cause you to run away. Cause fear bestows the frightened condition on you. The frightened condition causes you to run away. ...right. That's the same logic that would say "sleep doesn't make you do nothing- sleep makes you fall asleep, which makes you do nothing" :-) just so that we're on the same page, the ask wizards that spurned our court decision says.. Examples would include the obvious (such as command or dominate person), but also the less obvious, such as daze, sleep, and Tasha’s hideous laughter. Such effects would be suppressed for as long as protection from evil lasts on the target.
mucki 02-23-08, 01:19 PM	Right, a lot of comments :) From what I gather none of you want me to edit anything, right ? @wb: Glueing Thorell to his mount might scare it, but won't really help. As I wrote I was not sure what the intention of the tanglefoot bag was, but when I read the tactics at first I supposed it was to glue him to the floor to gain time shooting him (or have him dismount) your tactics say to go for melee when he gets close to you. Also web gives a -2 on attack roles and -4 to dex, so your ranged attacks would be at a serious disadvantage. Thorell has reach weapons, so you could not have found a safe spot. Thus I went for melee. @McJ: I added the extra damage from enlarge for the camel. the strength bonus and attack penalty cancel each other out, so i believe the camels attacks are correct ? I usually improvise on tactics if they would require doing "dumb" things in the situation they are applied in, but otherwise try to stay true to them. Using a weapon in a non-default way might be beneficial, but should be noted in the tactics (could be a default tactics block on the sheet). Yes, I read the whole description of Alternate Self (a few times) and it specifically says so (In fact it also replaces your Darkvision 90' for another Darkvision 90' but since that doesn't change anything i omitted it). I agree with lonewolf on Protection from Evil. I looked it up especially to see if it would affect it, but I don't think inducing fear is mental control. As he said, your loss of actions, results from your personal ability to act due to your frightened condition. If PfE would work against Cause Fear, then Freedom of Movement should presumably do so as well, and that makes even less sense.
McJarvis 02-23-08, 01:23 PM	I agree with lonewolf on Protection from Evil. I looked it up especially to see if it would affect it, but I don't think inducing fear is mental control. As he said, your loss of actions, results from your personal ability to act due to your frightened condition. If PfE would work against Cause Fear, then Freedom of Movement should presumably do so as well, and that makes even less sense. This is how we ran things in CoCo for a LONG time- pro evil had no effect against spells that made you do something else, but didn't give clear control over the recipient. Like Hideous Laughter, sleep, etc, etc. The Ask wizards linked in the courtroom for this decision is REALLY broad in how it defines what pro: evil hedges out. If it hedges out a sleep spell, then it certainly hedges out any [mind affecting] spell that makes you do anything. [and again- the correlation stands between sleep and cause fear. Sleep makes you have the condition of sleeping, cause fear gives you the condition of fright.] otherwise- yeah, my comments were more about my own forgetfulness than anything you should have done. Thanks for taking the time to read alterself- I am pretty forgetful sometimes and just skim over rules I think I know well. I still think alterself is a mixed blessing for thorell, since his saves go down by 3 when he uses it...
mucki 02-23-08, 01:31 PM	PS: Tasha's Hideous Laughter and Sleep are both Enchantment (Compulsion) effects, so it is possible the Ask Wizards quote is using them to just specify what "Enchantment (Charm) and Enchantment (Compulsion) effects that grant continuous Control over the character" means. PPS: I am confused. Confusion, which is presumably similar to Cause Fear, is Enchantment (Compulsion) and clearly blocked by PfE. I wonder if the fact that Cause Fear is Necromancy means that the effect is not caused mentally, but by somehow making the target believe he actually sees something frightful (or similar cause).
mucki 02-23-08, 01:32 PM	Btw, can anyone access the diceroller or battlemap right now? they don't work for me since i finished the ECL5 fight. EDIT: btw, that is probably why the maps are not working for you wb, since they do work for me in firefox
Stormwind 02-23-08, 01:35 PM	Btw, can anyone access the diceroller or battlemap right now? they don't work for me since i finished the ECL5 fight. EDIT: btw, that is probably why the maps are not working for you wb, since they do work for me in firefox Nope ... not at the moment :(
McJarvis 02-23-08, 01:40 PM	PS: Tasha's Hideous Laughter and Sleep are both Enchantment (Compulsion) effects, so it is possible the Ask Wizards quote is using them to just specify what "Enchantment (Charm) and Enchantment (Compulsion) effects that grant continuous Control over the character" means. PPS: I am confused. Confusion, which is presumably similar to Cause Fear, is Enchantment (Compulsion) and clearly blocked by PfE. I wonder if the fact that Cause Fear is Necromancy means that the effect is not caused mentally, but by somehow making the target believe he actually sees something frightful (or similar cause). Except the Cause fear is specifically mind affecting ;) The Ask Wizards site also says that the protection is not limited to Enchantment-subschool effects, so they obviously were not just trying to show you what kind of specific enchantments are hedged out :) ps- I use safari and I can't see the maps either :(
whitebaron 02-23-08, 04:25 PM	@wb: Glueing Thorell to his mount might scare it, but won't really help. As I wrote I was not sure what the intention of the tanglefoot bag was, but when I read the tactics at first I supposed it was to glue him to the floor to gain time shooting him (or have him dismount) your tactics say to go for melee when he gets close to you. Also web gives a -2 on attack roles and -4 to dex, so your ranged attacks would be at a serious disadvantage. Thorell has reach weapons, so you could not have found a safe spot. Thus I went for melee. 1) it was all about entangling thorell, not about anything it might do or not do to the camel. 2) web has 20ft radius. i could have gotten out of it on the other side. ;) also note, that melee was only the option if i could not get away. anyway, it does not matter. 3) it does not change a bit, but i believe you had the camel do to many actions, or else thorell would have needed a concentration check to cast web. (more likely, thhe camels first attack would just have been a round later)
McJarvis 02-23-08, 04:25 PM	Kai vs Verren (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15168349&postcount=1758) is up. Rewards to come once both players comment.
whitebaron 02-23-08, 04:27 PM	two three comments: 1) lucky me. 2) is 5ft step impossible in the sewer? 3) nice maps, thanks for the improvisation --- yet another edit: and about kiki - she's useless before lvl 3 except for scouting, which is not really necessary i believe. once she can deliver touch spells, we'll see more from her.
McJarvis 02-23-08, 04:30 PM	two three comments: 1) lucky me. 2) is 5ft step impossible in the sewer? 3) nice maps, thanks for the improvisation 5ft step is impossible in rough terrain, which I think the water counts as. In addition- all your options for 5' steps are also in Kai's threaten area.
MindWandererB 02-23-08, 04:30 PM	two three comments: 1) lucky me. 2) is 5ft step impossible in the sewer? 3) nice maps, thanks for the improvisation It is in the water (difficult terrain).
Hirumajoe 02-23-08, 04:38 PM	Regarding Verren vs Kai: Not much you can do against dice like those. Clearly should have gone with Invisibility instead of See Invisibility though. Then again, given Kai's luck in that fight, I'm not sure it would have mattered. :) No complaints from this end. Thanks for the run. And thanks for the cool maps!
McJarvis 02-23-08, 04:40 PM	It was a close fight no matter how you slice the luck factor. The crit off of true strike was lucky- but the critical miss on the confirm was equally so. In those last two rounds things swung from nobody having an advantage to Kai winning to nobody having an advantage to Verren winning very quickly.
whitebaron 02-23-08, 04:51 PM	@5ft-step: well, thats the third time one of my tactics nearly got screwed by environmental hazards. @invis: i was considering both options (see invis and invis) too, and then just decided to do it cheap, since i figured i was more likely on the losing side of this matchup. (since you had both the same options than i had) @crit: well, if you just double your damage, verren would still stand. ;) off to lvl 6 - wizard 3, finally. and now my familiar finally makes sense.
McJarvis 02-23-08, 04:54 PM	off to lvl 6 - wizard 3, finally. and now my familiar finally makes sense. At least thorell doesn't have to stare you down until ECL6 now. I was a bit worried that we'd end up facing off against each other _before_ I got level 3 spells. :-)
Hirumajoe 02-23-08, 05:18 PM	@crit: well, if you just double your damage, verren would still stand. ;) But average damage on 2d6+10 is 17. 17 > 15. Kai rolled low. :) Anyways, time to take another week off to scribe up the usual scroll supply.
McJarvis 02-23-08, 06:24 PM	partial fight is up for dark one vs felice. I'll finish the last few rounds after dinner.
hogarth 02-23-08, 09:05 PM	...right. That's the same logic that would say "sleep doesn't make you do nothing- sleep makes you fall asleep, which makes you do nothing" :-) just so that we're on the same page, the ask wizards that spurned our court decision says.. Here's the part of the "Ask Wizards" column that addresses the issue of non-Enchantment spells and effects: But what about mental control effects that aren’t enchantment effects, such as psionics? In such cases, the DM must use the rules and his own best judgment in concert to adjudicate the effect. Psionic powers of the telepathy discipline are the equivalent of enchantment spells, for example, and thus are affected in the same way. Non-spell effects that closely mimic enchantment spells should be treated as if they were spells of the appropriate subschool (charm or compulsion). So it basically says "Use your best judgment". Not very helpful. By the way, whitebaron, Protection from Evil has no effect on "Power Word X" spells: There are still plenty of enchantment (compulsion) effects that don’t grant the caster ongoing control over the subject. Heroism, crushing despair, mind fog, power word blind, rage, and touch of idiocy are examples. Protection from evil has no effect on such spells. Personally, I don't know whether Cause Fear is more like Tasha's Hideous Laughter or Crushing Despair in terms of "ongoing control".
McJarvis 02-23-08, 11:41 PM	Just finished Dark One vs Felice here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15169805&postcount=1759). Once both gladiators post comments, I'll finish rewards. @Hogarth: I think my initial assessment of penalty versus actions seems correct. The spells that protection-from-evil explicitly hedges-out all spells that "take over" the character's actions and don't let him decide what to do- the spells that don't all provide penalties and whatnot. This is why I said Cause Fear is affected by not having the creature run away- but still has penalties to attack rolls, saving throws, etc.
McJarvis 02-23-08, 11:46 PM	My final fight will be finished monday night. The battle-mapper and diceroller are still nonfunctional for me. Is this just me?
SauroGrenom 02-23-08, 11:57 PM	Here's the part of the "Ask Wizards" column that addresses the issue of non-Enchantment spells and effects: So it basically says "Use your best judgment". Not very helpful. By the way, whitebaron, Protection from Evil has no effect on "Power Word X" spells: Personally, I don't know whether Cause Fear is more like Tasha's Hideous Laughter or Crushing Despair in terms of "ongoing control".I would consider cause fear to be more like Tasha's than Crushing Despair. Crushing Despair is simply a penalty to a number of actions, while Cause Fear places the target in a frightened state. The frightened state determines the targets actions, ie they run away. That is much more controlling than a penalty to actions. Cause fear is a bit more complicated since a failed save causes the shaken state, and that wouldn't be ongoing control over the target. Rather a failed save vs Cause Fear is almost identical to Crushing Despair. If we want to really split hairs, we could say that Protection from Evil will protect you from a failed save vs Cause Fear, but not a successful save. I don't want to split that hair, and for simplicity's sake I'd rather say Protection From Evil grants protection from Cause Fear.
templer10 02-24-08, 02:15 AM	Just finished Dark One vs Felice here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15169805&postcount=1759). Once both gladiators post comments, I'll finish rewards. thanks for the run. just 2 comments - i think the energy retort should be after gruul does teh grapple and does dmg possibly - the power state that it works after "successful attack" at the moment we only had a Touch to grapple attempt so i don't think that count's as "successful", Only after the grapple was established and did damage i think the retort should work. (i want that wand charge back lol). Second - after rage grull has 27 HP (he actually has 2 HD not 1 - forgot the change that althrough HP is correct) so the eenrgy retort damage brings him to -8 and since the fight ends 1 round later he doesnt die.
MindWandererB 02-24-08, 03:00 AM	just 2 comments - i think the energy retort should be after gruul does teh grapple and does dmg possibly - the power state that it works after "successful attack" at the moment we only had a Touch to grapple attempt so i don't think that count's as "successful", Only after the grapple was established and did damage i think the retort should work. (i want that wand charge back lol).The touch attack hit, so the attack was successful. If it said "deals damage," then I'd agree.
Salrantol 02-24-08, 07:56 AM	Just finished Dark One vs Felice here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15169805&postcount=1759). Once both gladiators post comments, I'll finish rewards.The first successful attack made against you in each round during the power’s duration prompts a response from the field without any effort on your part. The attack may be physical, the effect of a power, or the effect of a spell (including spell-like, supernatural, and extraordinary abilities).There were several effects of spells and/or supernatural abilities that were not getting their owners hit with Energy Retort in this fight.
templer10 02-24-08, 08:37 AM	There were several effects of spells and/or supernatural abilities that were not getting their owners hit with Energy Retort in this fight. Note that the power spesify - "The first successful attack made against you" emphasis Mine - neither stinking cloud or dragon breath is spesificly targeted on you - they are area of effect so shouldn't trigger it. regradless - i spesificly asked for the dark one to be out of energy retort range (40).
mucki 02-24-08, 08:37 AM	Soren vs. Sunstroke is up Can't argue with dice ...
McJarvis 02-24-08, 08:56 AM	There were several effects of spells and/or supernatural abilities that were not getting their owners hit with Energy Retort in this fight. As Templer pointed out- I did not think area attacked triggered the retort. Aside from that, the only area effect that hits you that was within energy retort's range(or should have been) was Gruul(and his second attack was ineffective anyway). Stinking Cloud & Magic Missile are both 100+ ft range effects- and I know Dark one was 50+ft away from you during all of his attacks.
whitebaron 02-24-08, 08:57 AM	Soren vs. Sunstroke is up Can't argue with dice ... 2 mistakes i see: 1) entangle has 40ft radius, you did 40ft diameter 2) entangle causes you to move half speed, so sunstroke could move 20 ft in round 1. (which is way not enough to exit entangle, but still...)
McJarvis 02-24-08, 09:03 AM	Second - after rage grull has 27 HP (he actually has 2 HD not 1 - forgot the change that althrough HP is correct) so the eenrgy retort damage brings him to -8 and since the fight ends 1 round later he doesnt die. Actually- I hadn't calculated rage hp in at all either, so your hp was boosted by 8 as well. Looks like gruul _almost_ didn't go unconscious :)
Salrantol 02-24-08, 09:29 AM	As Templer pointed out- I did not think area attacked triggered the retort. Aside from that, the only area effect that hits you that was within energy retort's range(or should have been) was Gruul(and his second attack was ineffective anyway). Stinking Cloud & Magic Missile are both 100+ ft range effects- and I know Dark one was 50+ft away from you during all of his attacks.According to the maps, The Dark One was 30 ft. away from Felice with stinking cloud. After that, he was more, because you moved Felice away from him, a move which obviously favored only templer10's side.
McJarvis 02-24-08, 09:32 AM	According to the maps, The Dark One was 30 ft. away from Felice with stinking cloud. After that, he was more, because you moved Felice away from him, a move which obviously favored only templer10's side. This was an error by me. While doing that Try to stay farther away then 40 feet (range of energy retort). Dark one should have been 40 ft away. As far as favored decisions- I actually moved you away from him to get you further out of the range of Gruul. [I didn't consider it "obvious" that it favored Dark One only] edit- As a minor point- I was forced to do this with your character two times during combat. You did not specify what you wanted your energy adaptation was supposed to be- so I guessed fire over electricity(for his shocking grasp). And in this case- you left no instructions for what to do with stinking cloud. I think I did well with what I was given.
mucki 02-24-08, 10:22 AM	2 mistakes i see: 1) entangle has 40ft radius, you did 40ft diameter 2) entangle causes you to move half speed, so sunstroke could move 20 ft in round 1. (which is way not enough to exit entangle, but still...) true, and true. not being able to run still means you can double-move ... stupid me. Since he can get to cover I'll have to redo that.
mucki 02-24-08, 10:44 AM	Soren vs. Sunstroke updated! The cover only delayed the inevitable by 1 round ...
whitebaron 02-24-08, 12:34 PM	@McJarvis: expenditures for Verren are wrong - Scroll of Scorching Ray[CL 3] is missing. (xxx)
Salrantol 02-24-08, 01:21 PM	As a minor point- I was forced to do this with your character two times during combat. You did not specify what you wanted your energy adaptation was supposed to be- so I guessed fire over electricity(for his shocking grasp). And in this case- you left no instructions for what to do with stinking cloud. I think I did well with what I was given.First point is an "oops" on my part. Second point I can't really argue--mostly because there's nothing Felice could do (at this point in her build) about stinking cloud. And, yeah, you did do well with what you were given. I was just hoping I could convince you to change the movement so The Dark One would get hit. But with that line in his tactics, that wouldn't do anything.
templer10 02-24-08, 01:58 PM	Aquin vs varjo is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15176146&postcount=1763) - no real surprises.
MindWandererB 02-24-08, 02:17 PM	Soren vs. Sunstroke is up Can't argue with dice ... I don't think the dice were particularly biased here. They would have needed to come down massively on my side for me to have had a chance, as I noted in my tactics.
Stormwind 02-24-08, 02:26 PM	Aquin vs varjo is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15176146&postcount=1763) - no real surprises. @templer10: Thanks for the run. Much appreciated (Minor detail) The only thing that you seem to have missed is the fact that Käsi's horrific appearance should affect Aquin's mount Ferocity as well. Since it's irrelevant to the outcome, I wouldn't worry about it.
TelinArtho 02-24-08, 05:29 PM	Blah - not much I could do there. I had a hope that the TK grapple wouldn't be that nasty - but there's nothing that Aquin could have done to avoid it. Nice win Stormwind.
whitebaron 02-24-08, 06:16 PM	Orgauth(dulsi) vs. S'lertak Ssilva(TelinArtho)
TelinArtho 02-24-08, 08:49 PM	@wb - S'lertak has 2 nets. So that 2nd attack, I believe, should have hit I believe (he charged (-2 AC), he was enlarged (-2 ac) - I think it might have hit even if it wasn't folded). Not sure how much of a difference it would have made in the end though - but he certainly can't be charging while entangled.
dulsi 02-24-08, 11:20 PM	Orgauth(dulsi) vs. S'lertak Ssilva(TelinArtho) My tactics were only to cast enlarge if shield succeeds the first time. I suppose maybe I wasn't clear enough.
CrazyArtificer 02-25-08, 04:38 AM	I got Durzulgor tactics late.. Apparently, both him and Callix had troubles in connecting earlier. I'm inclined to believe in their good faith and run the fight anyway. I'm posting this so that everyone knows :)
Durzulgor 02-25-08, 08:24 AM	Thx Crazy, thats greatly appreciated! I just came home from Tirol where I had no access to the net and found out that Callix got my tactics, but had no time to come online either untill the moment he sent them to you! Sorry 'bout that!
CrazyArtificer 02-25-08, 09:02 AM	Ralein saves the day (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15182174&postcount=1766) is up ;) Nice fight.. it took me 4 hours to complete, but it was really nice. Edit: and rewards are up as well.
Durzulgor 02-25-08, 10:24 AM	Ralein, you're my hero! I was loughing my ass off, watching you take the two apart! ;-) Thx for the run Crazy!
whitebaron 02-25-08, 12:17 PM	@dulsi&telin: i'll edit, but i'm not sure on the extent of that. (depends on time, naturally i'll run the other fight first) but please don't edit your sheets yet, as results may change. @dulsi: from your tactics, i believe its not clear that you did not want to enlarge when the first shield fails. it rather looked to me that you wanted to enlarge if shield is up, and if it isn't, you wanted to stay smaller. @telin: right on the second net, though it would have been nice to mention it in tactics. anything else worth noting?
Callix 02-25-08, 03:02 PM	Ralein saves the day (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15182174&postcount=1766) is up ;) Nice fight.. it took me 4 hours to complete, but it was really nice. Edit: and rewards are up as well. Thank you very much. Only one thing to quibble about: from level 5, a Soulknife can redraw their mind blade as a free action, but only once per round. This affects the round where Korwald is close, as I can attack in that round. It doesn't really change anything; more "for future reference". And yes, it is a fun fight. Ralein has a way of dealing with those who, you wold assume, have an advantage over soulknives. Chaeck out the Ralein vs Ialgo vs Wroth Korthek fight if you don't believe me. Messy, but fun.
whitebaron 02-25-08, 03:25 PM	good week for you, callix: Petyr vs. Gradak rewards, later.
CrazyArtificer 02-25-08, 04:27 PM	Thank you very much. Only one thing to quibble about: from level 5, a Soulknife can redraw their mind blade as a free action, but only once per round. This affects the round where Korwald is close, as I can attack in that round. It doesn't really change anything; more "for future reference". :doh: And yes, it is a fun fight. Ralein has a way of dealing with those who, you wold assume, have an advantage over soulknives. Chaeck out the Ralein vs Ialgo vs Wroth Korthek fight if you don't believe me. Messy, but fun. Eheh.. nice fight as well. By the way, I didn't expect Mineau to withstand that Alpha strike.. looks like a merc with a CLW wand is a good investement, after all
Sjiggie 02-25-08, 04:32 PM	@Whitebaron: Couple of questions Since Gradak was sniping why did you suddenly stop with that in round 14 and why didn't Gradak move to cover with a spare move action because you didn't snipe anymore with him? According to the last map he could move 1 square north and have cover again. I know it isn't fun to run a sniper battle but I asked to always get cover vs Petyr. Ow and the link for the dice rolls is wrong this (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=2348) is the correct one Thanks Sjiggie
whitebaron 02-25-08, 04:58 PM	Since Gradak was sniping why did you suddenly stop with that in round 14 and why didn't Gradak move to cover with a spare move action because you didn't snipe anymore with him? 1) he was spotted. no hide, no snipe. 2) petyr would just have moved to avoid you having cover, it was in his tactics after all (try to get a clear shot). actually, from then on, petyr could himself always place so that he can deny you a chance to hide, and deny cover.
SauroGrenom 02-25-08, 05:35 PM	Telin, Wanted to make sure you got my tactics for Raskos... Cheers, Sauro
TelinArtho 02-25-08, 05:41 PM	I did - weekend got screwed up by having all three of my kids come down with various symptoms of the flu (punctuated by my almost 5-year old waking up a 2:30am to let us know he had thrown up in his bed...). I'll try to polish off the two fights I've got tonight - but we'll see how I'm feeling (I got in late, so I'll be working late...).
SauroGrenom 02-25-08, 06:00 PM	I did - weekend got screwed up by having all three of my kids come down with various symptoms of the flu (punctuated by my almost 5-year old waking up a 2:30am to let us know he had thrown up in his bed...).*Cringe* Ooh... Don't worry about it. I can wait if it gets delayed.
McJarvis 02-25-08, 10:18 PM	Dentik vs Altair is up. Rewards to come in morning.
McJarvis 02-25-08, 10:28 PM	rewards for dark one vs felice are up.
TelinArtho 02-25-08, 11:30 PM	Dentik vs Altair is up. Rewards to come in morning. Blah - thanks for the run.
Callix 02-26-08, 06:25 AM	good week for you, callix: Petyr vs. Gradak rewards, later. Thanks for the run. Sometimes, the diice gods just smile on you. Other times, they frown, as they do so often in my RL games. Yeah, the concealment went about as well as could be expected. I figured that denying him Sneak Attacks was worth something while I located him.
Erithmu 02-26-08, 10:17 AM	Besthirah vs an Iron Golem Never underestimate DR
TelinArtho 02-26-08, 11:41 AM	Just posted the opening few rounds of the Enoch vs TEDS fight. I don't know when I'll be working on it today - but I should be able to finish it up and then get to the monster fight for Sauro. Of course, best laid plans sometimes fall flat - so we'll see how it goes.
whitebaron 02-26-08, 01:07 PM	S'lertak vs. Orgauth, take 2 (reversed) @dulsi: after re-reading your tactics, i can see that you wanted to do enlarge only if the first shield spell is already working, but i'll admit i would read it the same, without hindsight, again. sorry about using 3 SLs - but it never occured to me what you wanted to do exactly. @telin: well, the net was all you needed. +++ rewards for petyr vs. gradak are up, too.
dulsi 02-26-08, 01:34 PM	Undurion vs. Mekhoar is up. @tunagolem: I know you probably wanted to use powerstone of chameleon but I'm hesistant to use expendables without being specified in the tactics.
dulsi 02-26-08, 01:41 PM	S'lertak vs. Orgauth, take 2 (reversed) How come he managed to get a full atack in on round 12. Orgauth should have withdrawn. With a 40 move even entagled he should be able to move enough to force Slertak to not get a full attack.
Hirumajoe 02-26-08, 01:45 PM	@lonewolf: Your rewards are up for Therador Goldscale. Apologies for not doing this sooner.
whitebaron 02-26-08, 01:58 PM	How come he managed to get a full atack in on round 12. Orgauth should have withdrawn. With a 40 move even entagled he should be able to move enough to force Slertak to not get a full attack. he restricted your movement in rd. 12+13 via net. this is not given in the fight, but look at the roller...
dulsi 02-26-08, 02:11 PM	he restricted your movement in rd. 12+13 via net. this is not given in the fight, but look at the roller... How did he hold the net and still full attack with claws then? One hand should be busy with the net at least.
McJarvis 02-26-08, 02:18 PM	rewards posted for dentik vs altair. correction posted for The Dark One's rewards. [now includes Gruul's rage and breath weapon]
MindWandererB 02-26-08, 02:36 PM	Besthirah vs an Iron Golem Never underestimate DR For some reason I thought the DR was only 10... the arrows would have worked a lot better. I would indeed have wanted you to burn through the arrows: I have 70 on me and 77 at home, so if you fired all of them I'd still have plenty. But it all worked out.
templer10 02-26-08, 02:36 PM	Gak VS TLR is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15184160&postcount=1768) - one roll made this very one sided.
Erithmu 02-26-08, 02:42 PM	Gak VS TLR is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15184160&postcount=1768) - one roll made this very one sided. I have no qualms from our side of the fight ... although we do have a +3% +28% Political Career bonus (+5 Terlyn +1 Lordrum)
Sjiggie 02-26-08, 02:50 PM	Gwerdan vs The Shadow is up
whitebaron 02-26-08, 03:01 PM	Gwerdan vs The Shadow is up gwerdan's attack modifier in the first round of engagement is wrong. this is the only thing i'd like to be fixed. can't argue the other dice rolls. it should be +8 (greatsword) +2(charge) +2 (invis) thus, hitting for 6d6+7. thanks in advance.
Sjiggie 02-26-08, 03:04 PM	He didn't spot the shadow before he moved so he couldn't charge he only spotted him after he denied the cover.
whitebaron 02-26-08, 03:09 PM	well, he was invisible - so no real harm in charging 1 round later? i asked for a charge specifically in the tactics..
MindWandererB 02-26-08, 03:16 PM	Gak VS TLR is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15184160&postcount=1768) - one roll made this very one sided. I deliberately went for minimalist tactics, so I suppose I can't complain. I would think that using Synesthete would be obvious when blinded, but I don't think it would really matter.
TelinArtho 02-26-08, 03:20 PM	How did he hold the net and still full attack with claws then? One hand should be busy with the net at least. Well - I didn't ask specifically for the net to be held - but that is up to the pitlord. However, since the pitlord decided to hold it - you are right, I should get one less attack on a full attack. All that said - Orgauth would not be able to take 5ft steps while entangled due to the halved movement - so he should probably go for a different weapon (that or he provokes every time he takes a step away. I haven't had much time to look at the fight itself though.
TelinArtho 02-26-08, 05:49 PM	Enoch the Prophet vs The Eternal Dreamless Sleep is up. I know there might be some things missing from the fight summary - please point them out if you see them (I have a few kids that are distracting me - and I'd rather give them attention right now :)) I will try to get Sauro's monster fight done tonight - we'll see how that goes though.
Rauul 02-26-08, 06:37 PM	well, he was invisible - so no real harm in charging 1 round later? i asked for a charge specifically in the tactics.. Problem with charging... According to the map Shadow was within 5ft of two-fist when he was spotted (couldn't use the statues for hiding anymore) So you wouldn't get a charge on Shadow.. Thanks Sjiggie for the run..
whitebaron 02-26-08, 06:40 PM	Problem with charging... According to the map Shadow was within 5ft of two-fist when he was spotted (couldn't use the statues for hiding anymore) So you wouldn't get a charge on Shadow.. Thanks Sjiggie for the run.. well, i could not charge then, but i could in the next round. the tactic was, to charge in the first (invisible) attack, not use the first attack whenever i see you. also, shadow would not know that he is no longer hidden, so no movement should occur for the other two - so the fight should be changed that i charge in the round after he made the first attack. there's really no need to hustle that alpha strike like that...
lonewolf 02-26-08, 06:41 PM	Problem with charging... According to the map Shadow was within 5ft of two-fist when he was spotted (couldn't use the statues for hiding anymore) So you wouldn't get a charge on Shadow.. Thanks Sjiggie for the run.. he could move away again to charge next round. As long as he is invisible, there is no need to haste. EDIT: Too slow... :D
Rauul 02-26-08, 06:45 PM	well, i could not charge then, but i could in the next round. the tactic was, to charge in the first (invisible) attack, not use the first attack whenever i see you. also, shadow would not know that he is no longer hidden, so no movement should occur for the other two - so the fight should be changed that i charge in the round after he made the first attack. there's really no need to hustle that alpha strike like that... Correct... your attack roll of a 4 would become a 6.. (1d20+8+2+2=16) i really don't think a 16 would hit...
lonewolf 02-26-08, 06:52 PM	Correct... your attack roll of a 4 would become a 6.. (1d20+8+2+2=16) i really don't think a 16 would hit... 16 is exactly The Shadows Flatfooted AC. :)
whitebaron 02-26-08, 07:07 PM	@dulsi&telin: looking at the roller, the fight is over even if orgauth is hit only by claw/bite. he would actually take no damage in rd 12, 9+4 damage in rd 13, and the next attack of orgauth (AoO, rd 14) misses, whilst the next attack of s'lertak would hit (second roll from rd 113) the only thing that would change is the fluff how orgauth goes down - sorry about that. if, for completeness, you want me to change that, i'll do so. @sjiggie&rauul: well, 6d6+7 is a good shot at shadows hp, which might end the fight rather sooner than later. with some luck, he goes down (need 21). i did the mistake of sundering your bow in the previous fight - was stupid. ;)
Erithmu 02-26-08, 07:26 PM	I have no qualms from our side of the fight ... although we do have a +3% Political Career bonus (+5 Terlyn +1 Lordrum) @T10: Check that ... we should get more than that ... w/ the ally penalties negating each other it should be +28% for each of us. Edit: 2304xp/2688gp should be right.
Salrantol 02-26-08, 07:34 PM	@TelinArtho: Since the deeper darkness spell specifically affected not Snake-Eyes, but her ring, Enoch gets a dispel check against that on the area dispel rather than the targetted dispel. (That was kind of the point of the area dispel.) Since it ended up being dispelled anyway, it's not a big deal, but something you should be aware of for the future. Also, it seems awfully nitpicky to treat 55 hp (41 nonlethal damage) differently than 14 hp regarding healing contingencies.
TelinArtho 02-26-08, 08:06 PM	Actually - I missed the healing contingency entirely (as I said - I was being distracted by my kids...). As to the area dispel - the ring is the attended object of Snake-eyes - so I believe the area dispel counts him as a single target. For example - the individual magic items on an individual would not be treated separately, but rather as part of the owner of them. I'll see about the healing when I can - but it might be tomorrow and it might be held-over.
Zevox 02-26-08, 08:16 PM	As to the area dispel - the ring is the attended object of Snake-eyes - so I believe the area dispel counts him as a single target. For example - the individual magic items on an individual would not be treated separately, but rather as part of the owner of them. Er, for a dispel? I'm pretty sure thats not the case. Else a targeted dispel would yield dispel checks on all a character's magical equipment as well as the character himself. Zevox
Durzulgor 02-26-08, 09:11 PM	Undurion vs. Mekhoar is up. @tunagolem: I know you probably wanted to use powerstone of chameleon but I'm hesistant to use expendables without being specified in the tactics. Hmm, while updating Undurion to LV4 I noticed you didn't include the still running Mage Armor in the ongoing effects section and Undurion's exact earnings by bookbinding are 94,92gp. Should you find the time: Please include that! Thx
dulsi 02-26-08, 10:58 PM	Hmm, while updating Undurion to LV4 I noticed you didn't include the still running Mage Armor in the ongoing effects section and Undurion's exact earnings by bookbinding are 94,92gp. Should you find the time: Please include that! Added Mage Armor and extra earnings. Forgot that you could have fraction gold (or rather silver and copper).
hogarth 02-26-08, 11:13 PM	It seems pretty clear to me: "For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells, you make dispel checks as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by an area dispel." So a non-magical ring would be affected by an area dispel (attended or not).
Salrantol 02-26-08, 11:16 PM	As to the area dispel - the ring is the attended object of Snake-eyes - so I believe the area dispel counts him as a single target. For example - the individual magic items on an individual would not be treated separately, but rather as part of the owner of them.For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells, you make dispel checks as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by an area dispel.So your example of magic items is irrelevant to the case, as they are specifically excluded, both as objects in the area and as magic items in the possession of characters in the area. As an object in the area which is the target of one or more spells, the ring is affected by an area dispel.
Rauul 02-26-08, 11:36 PM	@dulsi&telin: looking at the roller, the fight is over even if orgauth is hit only by claw/bite. he would actually take no damage in rd 12, 9+4 damage in rd 13, and the next attack of orgauth (AoO, rd 14) misses, whilst the next attack of s'lertak would hit (second roll from rd 113) the only thing that would change is the fluff how orgauth goes down - sorry about that. if, for completeness, you want me to change that, i'll do so. @sjiggie&rauul: well, 6d6+7 is a good shot at shadows hp, which might end the fight rather sooner than later. with some luck, he goes down (need 21). i did the mistake of sundering your bow in the previous fight - was stupid. ;) Well when he does the Edit, I am going to Request the Listen Checks on Shadow and Demarcos.. your invisibile.. not Silent..
templer10 02-27-08, 02:01 AM	Also, it seems awfully nitpicky to treat 55 hp (41 nonlethal damage) differently than 14 hp regarding healing contingencies. Just note - if u edit - That since enoch doesnt have a mount at this point (since mounted he can't cast or use wands) and EDS all have horses withdrawing on foot wont do much i think.
whitebaron 02-27-08, 03:54 AM	Well when he does the Edit, I am going to Request the Listen Checks on Shadow and Demarcos.. your invisibile.. not Silent.. yep, do that. still, hard to pinpoint, you'd need to have +20. ;) @sjiggie: you're going to edit, right?
Durzulgor 02-27-08, 04:27 AM	Added Mage Armor and extra earnings. Forgot that you could have fraction gold (or rather silver and copper). perfect, thanks! btw: Durzulgor I (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14312161#post14312161) has had his power rating updated, but is still listed as LV5, although he leveled to LV6. You might have noticed anyway, but, well, just to be shure! ;-)
Salrantol 02-27-08, 07:19 AM	Just note - if u edit - That since enoch doesnt have a mount at this point (since mounted he can't cast or use wands) and EDS all have horses withdrawing on foot wont do much i think.Granted, but since cure light wounds would, in current positions, keep up pretty well with your damage output, it's certainly worth trying (especially since we've already seen that if Enoch doesn't do it, he loses ;) ).
templer10 02-27-08, 08:15 AM	Granted, but since cure light wounds would, in current positions, keep up pretty well with your damage output, it's certainly worth trying (especially since we've already seen that if Enoch doesn't do it, he loses ;) ). WEll - i hope Telin get a chance to do it today then one way or another. TELIN - on editing - i noted 2 mistakes - 1)you didnt have Snake eyes do Force screen again after it was dispelled - doing that negates the hit at round 14 and one of the hits in round 15. 2)You didnt have SE reapply Vigor when it run out. (both of this things were listed in contingencies - it mentioned doing it for MK by accident - since MK doesnt have force screen or vigor the intent was clear it's for SE). one more thing which isnt a mistake - from what i seen in the roller - SE is shooting from pretty far away- if enoch is withdrawing to heal note he might break LOS from SE or move beyond spell range for spirtual weapon which will stop them attacking him. p.s. - i imagine that if Enoch is running away SE should more or less abandan the usless Arrow shooting and get to grappling?
Sjiggie 02-27-08, 10:47 AM	yep, do that. still, hard to pinpoint, you'd need to have +20. ;) @sjiggie: you're going to edit, right? Going to do it now.
TelinArtho 02-27-08, 10:53 AM	So your example of magic items is irrelevant to the case, as they are specifically excluded, both as objects in the area and as magic items in the possession of characters in the area. As an object in the area which is the target of one or more spells, the ring is affected by an area dispel. Maybe a magic item is a bad example then - Magic Vestment would be a better choice - cast on the armor - but would it be treated as the object's enchantment or the owner's? When you do a targetted dispel on the owner - would the magic vestment have a check to be dispelled? This is not so clear cut. I agree that it seems I ran it incorrectly - but I would suppose that it is also incorrect for anyone who has had MV dispelled by a targetted dispel as well. Anyway - I will edit accordingly (won't make any difference on the dispel as you noted): 1. Healing contingency for Enoch (round 13). 2. On Snake-eyes rebuffing those things - I didn't see it because it is specifically marked as MK. I will edit because it is "obvious" - since MK doesn't have those things - but please do get it right next time. 3. I will note distances - but at the same time, the healing contingency will kick in before the SWs are active - so it won't much make a difference in the current set of data. Snake-eyes wouldn't move to grapple since this is not Enoch moving to melee - sorry. The fight is going to be held over - I will try to get it done as soon as possible regardless though.
Sjiggie 02-27-08, 11:22 AM	@Rauul/whitebaron: I editted the fight result have changed please tell me if there is something wrong.
TelinArtho 02-27-08, 11:51 AM	Raskos the Jade Father (SauroGrenom) vs Half-Fiend Frost Giant (Unknown Monster) is up.
whitebaron 02-27-08, 12:55 PM	@Rauul/whitebaron: I editted the fight result have changed please tell me if there is something wrong. demarcos would hit in round 9 due to me charging. but his damage would not be enough to drop me, so it is irrelevant. @rauul: sorry about the reversal of this fight, but in the first fight, i lost pretty silly - why sunder a bow if i'm already in melee? :) getting 10d6+14 vs. 35 hitpoints in the first 2 rounds of engagement is definitely tough. - that's basically how i had planned it. @sjiggie: thanks for the edit. highly appreciated.
SauroGrenom 02-27-08, 06:52 PM	Raskos the Jade Father (SauroGrenom) vs Half-Fiend Frost Giant (Unknown Monster) is up. Telin I think there's a problem... I;m editing this as I think about the fight. The giant has a limited ability to move, since it suffers movement penalties at all places in the sewer map. A move action as a readied action shouldn't allow it to cover more than 20'. Raskos's wand can fire 60'. So I don't understand why he would be able to get into melee with a readied action, if Raskos is attacking from about 50' out. For example: Look at round 9. Raskos has the "control" of that round. So you have him move, provoke an AoO, then use his dorje. As a player I know that the giant has the next actions after that attack. So I know that my character will start his next round in melee. This totally contradicts my tactics. In this situation, Raskos should move, provoke the AoO, and move back out of danger. He knows that the giant will move to melee if he ends his turn in range. So he should never end his turn in range. All through the remainder of the battle, you have Raskos moving into range to attack, triggering his foe's readied action, and getting mauled in the resulting melee. This is totally against the "hit and run" tactics I wrote. You played as "run and hit" tactics. Run and Hit tactics are used by melee characters, not ranged attackers who have a movement advantage and can easily avoid melee. BTW: I had to use the dorje, because it's enlarged and has a 50' range. That's the only attack Raskos had which would beat the DR, SR and have a long enough range to attack from out of the maximum 40' movement for the giant in a round. Self manifest versions have only a 40' range. Brainlock, well that has to beat the PR also... Slightly better chances than Psychich Crush, but it requires endangering Yaurl (whom I'd like to keep alive for an actual arena battle).
Rauul 02-27-08, 07:23 PM	demarcos would hit in round 9 due to me charging. but his damage would not be enough to drop me, so it is irrelevant. @rauul: sorry about the reversal of this fight, but in the first fight, i lost pretty silly - why sunder a bow if i'm already in melee? :) getting 10d6+14 vs. 35 hitpoints in the first 2 rounds of engagement is definitely tough. - that's basically how i had planned it. @sjiggie: thanks for the edit. highly appreciated. I can Promise you your Invisibility Tactic won't work now that the 3fc is over :)
TelinArtho 02-27-08, 08:57 PM	Telin I think there's a problem... I;m editing this as I think about the fight. The giant has a limited ability to move, since it suffers movement penalties at all places in the sewer map. A move action as a readied action shouldn't allow it to cover more than 20'. Raskos's wand can fire 60'. So I don't understand why he would be able to get into melee with a readied action, if Raskos is attacking from about 50' out. For example: Look at round 9. Raskos has the "control" of that round. So you have him move, provoke an AoO, then use his dorje. As a player I know that the giant has the next actions after that attack. So I know that my character will start his next round in melee. This totally contradicts my tactics. In this situation, Raskos should move, provoke the AoO, and move back out of danger. He knows that the giant will move to melee if he ends his turn in range. So he should never end his turn in range. All through the remainder of the battle, you have Raskos moving into range to attack, triggering his foe's readied action, and getting mauled in the resulting melee. This is totally against the "hit and run" tactics I wrote. You played as "run and hit" tactics. Run and Hit tactics are used by melee characters, not ranged attackers who have a movement advantage and can easily avoid melee. BTW: I had to use the dorje, because it's enlarged and has a 50' range. That's the only attack Raskos had which would beat the DR, SR and have a long enough range to attack from out of the maximum 40' movement for the giant in a round. Self manifest versions have only a 40' range. Brainlock, well that has to beat the PR also... Slightly better chances than Psychich Crush, but it requires endangering Yaurl (whom I'd like to keep alive for an actual arena battle). Well - while you can control that you have a longer range than its move - you cannot control the shortness of the corridors from which you have visibility. As such - the giant places itself in a position to ready to move to base - on the rule that you have to come to it (because you are avoiding it with your greater speed). This is the same situation that came up in a sewer battle with Mitza's Sybil against a slower dwarf. Just because you have a greater speed - does not mean your opponent has to futily chase after you. I don't have time to look at your concerns at this moment though - I'll take another look when I can. I think it will still come down to you provoking AoO - and sooner, rather than later, this will spell Raskos's demise.
SauroGrenom 02-28-08, 12:02 AM	Well - while you can control that you have a longer range than its move - you cannot control the shortness of the corridors from which you have visibility. As such - the giant places itself in a position to ready to move to base - on the rule that you have to come to it (because you are avoiding it with your greater speed). This is the same situation that came up in a sewer battle with Mitza's Sybil against a slower dwarf. Just because you have a greater speed - does not mean your opponent has to futily chase after you. I don't have time to look at your concerns at this moment though - I'll take another look when I can. I think it will still come down to you provoking AoO - and sooner, rather than later, this will spell Raskos's demise.A guy with superior movement who's ability to both attack and move is limited (not negated) by terrain, vs a guy with inferior movement who won't chase after the other guy with superior movement. So you're telling me that in this situation, the slow moving guy simply gets to camp out in the best spot on the map and the other guy is forced to come out after him... thereby negating the movement advantage... Never mind then. Don't bother altering the fight. You clearly think it's a forgone conclusion, and I've been in situations where the pitlord is running a monster and feels the rerun is a forgone conclusion. The outcome has never changed in favor of the PC. Save your time and do something fun with it.
Rauul 02-28-08, 01:46 AM	@Rauul/whitebaron: I editted the fight result have changed please tell me if there is something wrong. Well other than Demarcos would get his Crit hit, and maybe hit in the Last round.. could make it a Bleed out contest.. Maybe.. Depending on if he hits and releases his second focus... (is one of those Gray areas where the minion could win the fight for the Master) but i am not really worried about it... Up to you if you wanna do the roll or not
Rauul 02-28-08, 02:07 AM	Sjiggie, can you check the Awards... i should only be loosing 3% instead of 25% (have 22% Political Connections) 582 xp 646.02 gp i think is correct..for a lost
Callix 02-28-08, 02:54 AM	MWB, I'm sorry to mess up the pairings, but Ralein didn't level last week. He has 13700 XP, 1300 short of level 6. This is likely to mess up a lot of the roster, and I'd be willing to fight Verren as it stands, since his HP is equal to my max damage, and I hit him on a 3. But the rewards would be messy for the pitlord, and it's an odd precedent. To explain the sudden changes, Ralein finished his cycle and went shopping for Gloves of Dexterity, which added to a lot of his level-dependant stats. EDIT: Wrong thread. Cross-posting to this week...
whitebaron 02-28-08, 04:55 AM	Well other than Demarcos would get his Crit hit, and maybe hit in the Last round.. could make it a Bleed out contest.. Maybe.. Depending on if he hits and releases his second focus... (is one of those Gray areas where the minion could win the fight for the Master) sorry, but that's not true. according to coco rules, if the minion does not heal the master, the fight's over. also, gwerdan would have no need to tumble away from demarcos.
Rauul 02-28-08, 08:17 AM	sorry, but that's not true. according to coco rules, if the minion does not heal the master, the fight's over. also, gwerdan would have no need to tumble away from demarcos. Still shouldn't stop the to hit for the last round... at the beginning of the next round is when they are swished away.. was my understanding..
Sjiggie 02-28-08, 08:33 AM	To my understanding if the main characters is defeated and none of the allies can get him back into the fight it is over immediatly.
Rauul 02-28-08, 09:23 AM	To my understanding if the main characters is defeated and none of the allies can get him back into the fight it is over immediatly. Ok... 50gp can fix that LOL Can you fix the awards... so i can get to updating him...
Sjiggie 02-28-08, 09:51 AM	will do should be done in a minute EDIT: Rewards are fixed
TelinArtho 02-28-08, 10:45 AM	A guy with superior movement who's ability to both attack and move is limited (not negated) by terrain, vs a guy with inferior movement who won't chase after the other guy with superior movement. So you're telling me that in this situation, the slow moving guy simply gets to camp out in the best spot on the map and the other guy is forced to come out after him... thereby negating the movement advantage... Never mind then. Don't bother altering the fight. You clearly think it's a forgone conclusion, and I've been in situations where the pitlord is running a monster and feels the rerun is a forgone conclusion. The outcome has never changed in favor of the PC. Save your time and do something fun with it. Someone who uses superior movement to be able to negate the other's ability to affect them is in delay when the other refuses to chase after him. If I make a movement 20ft dwarf and he cannot affect a caster because the caster is staying out of his range, the movement 20ft dwarf is perfectly within his rights to turtle up in a corner and force the caster to come closer. I'm sorry if you feel slighted by this - but that's the way the delay penalties work.
TelinArtho 02-28-08, 11:19 AM	@templer10 - you made an error on TMK's spells available for his 2nd fight. When you level up mid-cycle - you do get the adjust spell levels per fight - but it does not adjust the amount you had "available" for your first fight. So TMK used 7/7 SLs in week 1. In week 2, he is allowed 12 SLs - not 17. Invisibility, Fireball x3, Shocking Grasp = 12. No scorching rays this fight. This just got a bit more complicated...
whitebaron 02-28-08, 11:46 AM	I'm sorry if you feel slighted by this - but that's the way the delay penalties work. that's the way you interpret them, anyway. :) but i would not hold it against the one OR the other. both are, basically, delaying. especially in the sewer, delay should be when someone does nothing but "wait" or "ready" else there's no need for superior movement speed - you could always just barrel in with your merfolk barbarian and say "they have to melee me, else i'd have no chance, so they are delaying if they try to stay at range" both the caster not wanting to engage in melee and the dwarf not wanting to engage in ranged are delaying - this could not work otherwise. basically it comes down to "who started it first?" i can really understand sauro's frustration in this fight.
dulsi 02-28-08, 12:09 PM	both the caster not wanting to engage in melee and the dwarf not wanting to engage in ranged are delaying - this could not work otherwise. basically it comes down to "who started it first?" i can really understand sauro's frustration in this fight. There's a difference between not wanting to engange in ranged and not being able to engage in ranged. If the opponent is faster than you and you have NO ability to hit them from a distance, chasing after them is no different than standing still. (So if you dropped a medium sized bow with arrows, the giant is now delaying since he could pick it up. That could be a useful tactic.)
TelinArtho 02-28-08, 12:23 PM	The sewer is really the only map where movement speed is not much of an advantage and is one of the reasons why the map was developed. If your tactics rely on hit and run and your opponent has no way to keep up - it is entirely within his right to set up in a place where he can engage you from. The giant does have a few rocks - but without the ability to move and attack - the giant doesn't consider that an option really. Since it takes 2 full move actions for the giant to move from one end to the other - it makes the most sense for him to wait at the midpoint and wait for his opponent to show himself.
lonewolf 02-28-08, 12:30 PM	It does make most sense, but it is also clearly delaying. To avoid delaying he could move and ready to throw a stone.
TelinArtho 02-28-08, 12:31 PM	Enoch the Prophet (Salrantol) vs The Eternal Dreamless Sleep (hogarth and templer10) revision is up. Had to move it into a 3rd post because of the length. Rewards are updated due to the result change but used expendables are not yet. In the end, I had TEDS surrender since TMK was out of spell levels, Magda and TMK had no physical weapons to use and Enoch could still use his wand of shield to negate the magic missiles.
TelinArtho 02-28-08, 01:06 PM	Here (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-765499.html)'s the situation that I was referring to with Mitza: I'm not going to argue it again, but I don't get withdraw in Rund 7 when she didn't need to and then take the AoO in 11 when she really didn't need to. I would have to go through and map the entire thing myself to be certain of the movement, but there does not seem to be any reason that she should ever end up based by something that moves that much slower. She isn't stupid, she does know the map, and there are plenty of places in open pathways to keep her ideal range and prevent him from basing and attacking in the same round. Durin's tactics do not include pushing his mount, but you did him the courtesy of using that though his tactics do include sending a damaged mount away. I am not happy with the way that ran, but I don't have the time to round by round it. Forgive me, but the frustration of having superior movement wasted time and again is getting to me. This is not the first loss that Sybil will be taking because for some reason superior movement means "Hit me, I like it." I am fairly certain after reading his tactics that even though he would be in delay penalty first, you moved her right into his readied action instead of forcing him to pursue which was my intention. That for lack of any better description, bites. First off, let me address doing something that is not in his tactics to do: Spur the mount, if it looks like a good idea. Ok on to the rest: You withdrew in round 5 - because your opponent was threatening you with a melee reach weapon and your tactics indicated wanting to stay away as best you could: In round 11, I don't see how you expect to not draw an AoO. Yes, but the same could be said of Durin - he knows the map as well and has planned well to ready to base you. If I had both of you sitting with him at the midway point of the corridor and you at a corner without LOS to either one, I hate to tell you, but Sybil is the one who is going to get hit with the penalty. Why? Because, in the spirit of the rule, you should not penalize the character who cannot overcome a proactive tactic of his/her opponent. If a flying character is above a melee character who has no ranged weapon, the melee character is not to get penalized while avoiding combat - hoping to find an edge to get in. Moreover, your tactics read to me that you wanted to engage your opponent. By sitting in a corner - you would just be using up time on your short-duration buffs. Great speed can be a good advantage. In a limited LOS and hindered terrain type map like this one - even a slow character can get the fast character if he plans right. Durin's tactics did exactly that. This fight aside, you are saying that you would penalize her for picking a corner and waiting but not him for standing around and forcing her to let him base her?! HE HAS A RANGED WEAPON. HE CHOSE NOT TO USE IT AND YOU PENALIZED ME FOR IT. Aside from that she has spares of all of her buffs except Expeditious which has 41 rounds of yummy goodness. That argument is bunk. Whatever. @Maraxus...missed the spur when I read your tactics. I find no fault with you. Reading Telin's commentary, I see his opinion of how that fight should go and he ran it to his satisfaction. It is lame in my eyes, but I am not the pitlord for that fight. I am sorry if you feel that I have slighted you in this fight Mitza, but I really don't think I deserve the comments. Maraxus had set out a specific strategy to get around your superior movement. Your tactics were urgent - in that they would fail if you took too much time. Had I run the fight differently, and instead have you delay until neither one of you had LOS, then your speed advantage would have run out. Then your tactics called for engaging in melee. This is now the second time you have clashed with me about a fight that I ran. I don't appreciate the tone you take when talking about issues with your fights. The conversation quickly degrades into a discussion about Tumble which has no bearing here. EDIT: Meant to include the link to the fight as well.
templer10 02-28-08, 03:26 PM	Enoch the Prophet (Salrantol) vs The Eternal Dreamless Sleep (hogarth and templer10) revision is up. Had to move it into a 3rd post because of the length. Rewards are updated due to the result change but used expendables are not yet. In the end, I had TEDS surrender since TMK was out of spell levels, Magda and TMK had no physical weapons to use and Enoch could still use his wand of shield to negate the magic missiles. question - why did he run out of SL's? he had 17 for this fight?
TelinArtho 02-28-08, 03:29 PM	@templer10 - you made an error on TMK's spells available for his 2nd fight. When you level up mid-cycle - you do get the adjust spell levels per fight - but it does not adjust the amount you had "available" for your first fight. So TMK used 7/7 SLs in week 1. In week 2, he is allowed 12 SLs - not 17. Invisibility, Fireball x3, Shocking Grasp = 12. No scorching rays this fight. This just got a bit more complicated... @T10 - this is why you didn't have 17 SLs.
templer10 02-28-08, 03:41 PM	@T10 - this is why you didn't have 17 SLs. odd - never knew that...