Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cerebus13 07-20-05, 04:56 PM	Because Sindorin is a bit busy this week I'll be the cool guy to get this started. This thread is for questions, comments, and concerns solely regarding the pairings, quests, and campaigns for this week. Please remember to be calm and considerate with any discussion herein. The rules can be found here: Rules of Gladius (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448520&origin=)
xanadu 07-20-05, 05:41 PM	I think he'll say your hijaking this thread :P
Altaris13 07-20-05, 05:51 PM	Oooh... The shivers... :D My first pairing. Take easy on the virigin! :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :b: So who'll be my first vic? :b: :D
nightbanegod 07-20-05, 06:32 PM	ive got a character ( boris the bloody) submitted but i guess i needed to make a few changes on em... i just wrote em up in a hurry... this isnt going to take me out of the fights this week is it?
Deadly Assassin 07-20-05, 06:35 PM	Take easy on the virigin! Lol, don't worry, my first pairing I lost the fight, but the next week I was paired, I won both my fights.
Prince FyreDragon 07-20-05, 06:43 PM	Lol, don't worry, my first pairing I lost the fight, but the next week I was paired, I won both my fights. On the flip side, in my first fight I got lucky with a first shot crit followed by a CDG...we'll see how I do in week two when the pairings come out LOL
Pitlords 07-20-05, 06:45 PM	PAIRINGS DONE Credit Changes: +6: King Uther +3: Caterane, Kaigan +2: Cerebus, McJarvis, Xanadu, Zerone, Jindl, Sindorin, Huan +1: Jh316, Mindrogue, Pittbull, Malither, Rim-Soulfang, SoulLord, TelinArtho, Tellish +0: Deadly Assassin -1: Iced -2: Gonbow, -4: Vathelokai -5: Luni, LLMadCow Credits for Pitlords: +3: Kaigan +2: Caterane, Gonbow, Jh316, Malither, McJarvis, Xanadu, Zerone +1: Cerebus, Huan, Iced, Mindrogue, Pittbull, Rim-Soulfang, SoulLord, TelinArtho, Vathelokai, Deadly Assassin Credits for Questlords: +4: King Uther, Deadly Assassin +2: Jindl -1: Iced Credits for Campaignlords: +2: Huan, King Uther, Tellish, Sindorin Credits for Active PCs: -1: Deadly Assassin Credits for Questers: -1: Huan, Iced, Jh316, Malither, Tellish Special Credits: +1: Caterane (admin), Cerebus (story), Gonbow (story) -5: Gonbow, Vathelokai, Deadly Assassin, Luni, LLMadCow (Campaign Start) I've added the tactic/fight procedure at the bottom of the pairings thread so that I don't have to repeat it every week. Special credits go to Cerebus for his story in the Barak vs Alex fight. Gonbow deserves no less for the description of Anixx vs Goran. Ok, this is the first week where we have All vs All fights. Rules can be found in the Rules of Gladius: Arena Combat I (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466621). Please note that this is some kind of test run. We might change the rules slightly depending on how it works. I've myself assigned such a fight to witness it firsthand. Please send me tactics early. Because of the nature of All vs All fights, you may delay no longer than 5 rounds or you are out. I also want to remind you that we are still looking for maps for Monster Fights. It must have a low ceiling (max15ft) and should be dungeon-like, in any form or shape. We will then pick the best one. You will receive 1 credit per map, and 5 credits if your map is the one that we will use. Ok, good luck Cat @"A History Lesson" Players: You should read the pre-story how Kelek lost his journal in the first place: The life of Kelek, Part 1: The Neighbor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=1832948) @LLMadCow: Please give your character a name and remove the spoiler blocks around the sheet. Thanks. 10 times the f word was acceptable: 10. "What the **** was that?" - Mayor of Hiroshima, 1945 9. "Where did all those ****ing Indians come from?" - Custer, 1877 8. "Any ****ing idiot could understand that." - Einstein, 1938 7. "It does so ****ing look like her." - Picasso, 1926 6. "How the **** did you work that out?" - Pythagoras, 126 BC 5. "You want WHAT on the ****ing ceiling!?!?" - Michelangelo, 1566 4. "Where the **** are we???" - Amelia Earhart, 1937 3. "Scattered showers my ****ing ass!!!" - Noah, 4314 BC 2. "Aww c'mon. Who the ****'s gonna find out?"- Bill Clinton, 1999 1. "Geez, I didn't think they'd get this ****in' mad." - Osama Bin Laden, 9,12,2001 I have another line for Nightbanegod sig: Where the **** is Cellardweller?? (CoCo, July 2005) :D EDIT: Last minute Pairing: Juntar Dunecrosser (KerlanRayne) vs Adlar (Madner): Jh316 @Kerlan: I won't charge any credits for that fight.
xanadu 07-20-05, 07:19 PM	Cool sig desrves a momentary hijack :) "Who the **** are they?" - anonomous native Americans upon sighting Columbus's ships, Caribbean 1492.
Caterane 07-20-05, 07:34 PM	"It's just Poland. What the **** can go wrong?" - Adolf Hitler, 1939 http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/ah.gif
Megrim_Lord 07-20-05, 07:37 PM	"It's just Poland. What the **** can go wrong?" - Adolf Hitler, 1939 http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/ah.gif :rofl:
Caterane 07-20-05, 07:42 PM	@Pittbull: Tactics for Uhmentarymster sent.
Salrantol 07-20-05, 07:49 PM	@Rim-Soulfang: Tactics for Barak Brigandslayer sent. @Huan: Tactics for Meinrad the Many-Fisted sent.
Gonbow 07-20-05, 07:59 PM	@Caterane: Tactics for Santos (Gonbow) vs Niobe (MindRogue) vs Vorag (Deadly Assassin) vs Milo Tad (SodaGuy) sent. May god have mercy on my poor githzerai.
TelinArtho 07-20-05, 08:41 PM	@Maraxus - Tactics received
xanadu 07-20-05, 09:06 PM	@ Rim-Soulfang. Tactics for Draconis Regina sent.
Prince FyreDragon 07-20-05, 09:25 PM	@Jh316 Tactics for Damson Rhea sent (again)
xanadu 07-20-05, 09:30 PM	@ Kaigan, tactics for Xyanthraxia sent.
TelinArtho 07-20-05, 10:07 PM	@Jh316 - tactics for Kraegin sent.
Altaris13 07-20-05, 10:53 PM	@SoulLord! ACK!!! Full PM in box!! OMG! What am I gonna do?! HElP!!! HELP!!! *panicks* :weep: :eek: :rant: :tantrum: :headexplo :banghead: Just kidding... :D But yes, SoulLord, your PM box is full. Please let me know when/how you'd like my tactics submits. Thanks in advance!
Pauper 07-21-05, 01:54 AM	@TellinArtho We seem to have a communications problem - you don't like to get e-mail, and I don't like to get board PMs. How should we co-ordinate our team tactics against the evil rogue? :D -- Pauper
Caterane 07-21-05, 02:39 AM	@Tellish: You forgot to include the sheet in the Campaign! Please add them somewhere at the top with spoilers. Thanks.
Beldin 07-21-05, 05:15 AM	@Kaigan: tactics for Zhaiyad have been sent.
Vathelokai 07-21-05, 06:01 AM	Tactics recieved for chilli[begferdeth]. Waiting on Omo-na sento[LLmadcow].
Pittbull 07-21-05, 06:39 AM	@McJarvis: Hagrid's tactic has been sent to you via E-Mail. ---------------------------------------------------------- Uhme's tactic received, waiting on Jindl's.
Rim-Soulfang 07-21-05, 07:45 AM	I dont want to run a fight this pairing, i will be at a lan. Trust me, you dont want me to pitlord when i have been awake for 48+ hours in a row.
Gonbow 07-21-05, 08:13 AM	@Guardian Angel: Tactics recieved.
Vathelokai 07-21-05, 08:38 AM	@Cat - I could pick up Rim-soulfangs fight, unless there is another volunteer who really wants it. Also a question on credits: the story (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6713085&postcount=166) and the boat map (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6730933&postcount=60)...?
waywreth 07-21-05, 08:56 AM	Tactics for Amion sent via PM to Mind Rogue.
King Uther 07-21-05, 09:18 AM	@Jindl How did Anna craft 12 Huge Bastard swords when she is either incorporeal or Ethereal? And how big is a one-pound basket? At least shouldn't it be a Huge basket? 20-foot swords hanging out of a 1lb basket. Wicker isn't that strong. Other than that, good luck with the fight.
TelinArtho 07-21-05, 09:25 AM	@Pauper - I've enabled my email - so feel free to send to it (starstealer (at) comcast.net
Cerebus13 07-21-05, 09:33 AM	@Kaigan - Tactics sent for Guts via email. @xanadu - Tactics received. @Zerone - Still waiting for tactics.
TelinArtho 07-21-05, 09:56 AM	@nightbanegod - still waiting for tactics (since this is my first pitlord fight - I want plenty of time to work with it...)
Jindl 07-21-05, 09:59 AM	@Jindl How did Anna craft 12 Huge Bastard swords when she is either incorporeal or Ethereal? And how big is a one-pound basket? At least shouldn't it be a Huge basket? 20-foot swords hanging out of a 1lb basket. Wicker isn't that strong. Other than that, good luck with the fight. They were crafted before she became a ghost. I haven't found any rules stating the capacity of containers. However, if the basket wouldn't work, it would be just as easy to buy a 1 lb piece of rope and tie the 12 scabbards of the swords together (since their weight entry includes the scabbard). Good luck to you as well :) -Jindl
Kaigan 07-21-05, 10:07 AM	Tactics Received: Received Tactics for Xyan Received Tactics for Guts Received Tactics for Zhaiyad. Waiting on Tactics for Heindal. Waiting on Tactics for Dunewalker. Waiting on Tactics for Brilf. Tactics Sent: Tactics for Maylee and Alex will be sent tonight.
King Uther 07-21-05, 10:20 AM	@Jindl You are right, you could tie them together. I was more or less poking fun, not really challenging anything.
King Uther 07-21-05, 10:29 AM	@ Jindl Do you want to do a separate thread? I don't think we need to, but I thought I would ask just in case.
Altaris13 07-21-05, 11:50 AM	@SoulLord: Tactics for Aeryn Valaer sent via PM! Time to die little gnome... :fight!: :evillaugh
Jindl 07-21-05, 02:11 PM	@ Jindl Do you want to do a separate thread? I don't think we need to, but I thought I would ask just in case. Nah, it should be alright. Poor little pixie.
King Uther 07-21-05, 02:51 PM	True that. He was meant to do a quest first to gain a thing or two I'd need, but as you can see it didnt work out.
Deadly Assassin 07-21-05, 03:06 PM	Tactics for Ormos and Vorag sent.
nightbanegod 07-21-05, 04:25 PM	sorry i havnt gotten tactics to you yet tellinartho but i had a discrepency with my opponents gear.... see => potion of " SEE invisibility" personal range spell in potion tell me whats up with that... well id rather still fight than have em get DQed so ive got tactics already in mind just let me know whats your ruling on his potion ...
nightbanegod 07-21-05, 04:26 PM	*edit* accidentally double posted same message ... dunno why the comp did that :D
xanadu 07-21-05, 04:44 PM	potion of see invis - report to pitlord. Pitlord will inform gladiator that no such item exists and will not be used in fight. gladiator will edit his sheet AFTER the fight is completed and remove the illegal item.
Gonbow 07-21-05, 05:04 PM	@BGT Tactics for Brogan received. Still waiting for tactics from Iced and Zerone, once one of them sends me tactics I'll be able to run that particular fight.
SoulLord 07-21-05, 05:15 PM	I would like to propose to my opponent and the pitlord running it. That if the fight of heindal the big for any reason looks like it's going to be extended yet again... that we declare the winner by a coin toss. If thats ok with the elders..
King Uther 07-21-05, 05:38 PM	@ Iced tactics vs Anna have been sent via PM. Expect an interesting fight. @ Jindl I wish incorporeal undead were edible.
nightbanegod 07-21-05, 06:05 PM	@TelinArtho tactics for boris the bloody sent in and i hope TelinArtho doesnt accidentally use that potion..... :(
nightbanegod 07-21-05, 06:14 PM	@ Jindl I wish incorporeal undead were edible. SURE THEY ARE ... ya just gotta freeze em solid... :D
TelinArtho 07-21-05, 08:40 PM	@ Nightbanelord Tactics received - don't worry about the potion - I'll make sure he removes it for the next go around. I'll probably run the fight tonight or tomorrow.
Maraxus 07-21-05, 10:48 PM	nightbanegod: Sorry for that mistake. I'm really ashamed how flawed my character still is, I thought, I had checked everything twice to be after the rules (but there are so many ;))
Sunwolf 07-21-05, 11:28 PM	@Kaigan Tactics for Brilf sent by PM
King Uther 07-21-05, 11:45 PM	@ Jindl Could you give me a little trash talk before my win? Or not
GuardianAngel 07-22-05, 12:42 AM	Ok I sent tatics last night via PM, but Had all day to think about this(works at a boring job) So Can I resend my tatics, This time I sent them Via Email to you guys. For Dagnal I emailed them to malither76[at]yahoo.com For Ierok I sent them to Gonbow[at]hotmail.com This are the ones that I want to play with. Thanks guys for understanding, just my first battle here and I want to win both. Also Maraxus I understand totally How it feels...coming from those unorgainized threads to this elite form of fighters kinda scares me.
Zerone 07-22-05, 12:44 AM	Tactics Sent: The Battle Maiden, Saya to Gonbow via PM Asmeroviel to Cerebus13 via PM Tactics Not Received: Zahrat (MindRogue) Sasha (Jh316) Alac (Pauper) Ambellon (TelinArtho) *•. Z
Gonbow 07-22-05, 12:49 AM	Ok I sent tatics last night via PM, but Had all day to think about this(works at a boring job) So Can I resend my tatics, This time I sent them Via Email to you guys. For Dagnal I emailed them to malither76 (at) yahoo.com For Ierok I sent them to Gonbow (at) hotmail.com This are the ones that I want to play with. Thanks guys for understanding, just my first battle here and I want to win both. Also Maraxus I understand totally How it feels...coming from those unorgainized threads to this elite form of fighters kinda scares me. I haven't started the battle yet, so yes I will accept new tactics. However, I suggest that for the future you use the email I provided on the characters thread (Terminus-Est (at) rock.com), and that you not post people's full email addresses, replace the @ symbol with the (at) symbol, as it lessens the amount of spam said person will receive as a result ;) Just some bits of netiquette.
TCB 07-22-05, 01:45 AM	Tatics Sent to Mindrogue for my character Its a win/win situation so, either way I get cash and exp. just want that 1, 0 record is all :P
Vathelokai 07-22-05, 03:13 AM	Tactics sent to McJarvis for Jodan Desho via PM. If I loose this, Goran the Beast goes to Lv4. :help:
Sindorin 07-22-05, 03:46 AM	Wow I wish I had tactics to send... hehe. That's what I get for having my two free actives in CAMPAIGNS...
Vathelokai 07-22-05, 04:21 AM	I have taken over duties for Rim-Soulfang's fight. I have recieved tactics for both Barak Brigandslayer (Salrantol) vs Draconis Regina (Xanadu). Will be running it shortly.
xanadu 07-22-05, 09:42 AM	Maylee (Kaigan)and Czernobog (Meek Head) still need tactics. Xanadu
Kaigan 07-22-05, 09:47 AM	Will be sending my tactics for Maylee and Alex tongiht. Sorry for the delay been busy. @Xanadu: you do know that it is an all vs. all fight? Maylee vs. Cyz guy vs. Ormos
Vathelokai 07-22-05, 10:01 AM	Draconis Regina vs. Barak Brigandslayer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6763099&postcount=129) finished and posted to the battles thread. This is my first time pitlording, so check for mistakes.
TelinArtho 07-22-05, 10:46 AM	Mythos vs Boris the Bloody (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6763379) Just a note about how I wrote spot/listen etc: Unless the player had a readied action to make use of a reactive spot/listen (in which case, I resolved it immediately), I didn't write down the spot/listen until the character's following action. These "searches for enemy" actions are just the reactive checks transposed onto the following action. They are not taking move actions for these checks. Also, this is my first pitlorded fight - so please let me know if anything is in error. (Lastly, if someone wants me to post the fight map with the positions as they go, I can certainly add it to the fight).
Altaris13 07-22-05, 11:14 AM	Also, this is my first pitlorded fight - so please let me know if anything is in error. (Lastly, if someone wants me to post the fight map with the positions as they go, I can certainly add it to the fight). @TelinArtho: I know I wasn't involved in the fight, but I'd like to see the positions (you can email to me if you wish.) I think I may have some of the same problems with Aeryn that Boris had, and I'm hoping to learn from that fight.
TelinArtho 07-22-05, 11:20 AM	I'll add it to the fight in a spoiler at the end - give me a moment. edit - added.
Gonbow 07-22-05, 12:35 PM	Brogan vrs Soya is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6763984#post6763984). I may put up a story later in the week, depending on how much energy I have after I do my second fight.
SoulLord 07-22-05, 01:30 PM	Tactis for vandelar the red sent by email tactics for Aeryn Valaer (Altaris13) Received by PM (use e-mail) tactics for Farfinar (NedTheDestroyer) not received.
Altaris13 07-22-05, 01:34 PM	Tactis for vandelar the red sent by email tactics for Aeryn Valaer (Altaris13) Received by PM (use e-mail) tactics for Farfinar (NedTheDestroyer) not received. @SoulLord... Sorry about that, but I tried was notified that your email is disabled. :weep:
Deadly Assassin 07-22-05, 01:37 PM	@SoulLord... Sorry about that, but I tried was notified that your email is disabled. :weep: His email is noted in the pitlords roster. ;)
Altaris13 07-22-05, 01:40 PM	His email is noted in the pitlords roster. ;) Oh... :embarrass
Cerebus13 07-22-05, 02:17 PM	Question regarding using the Disarm action to grab items. The relevant text is highlighted in this quote:Grabbing Items You can use a disarm action to snatch an item worn by the target. If you want to have the item in your hand, the disarm must be made as an unarmed attack. If the item is poorly secured or otherwise easy to snatch or cut away the attacker gets a +4 bonus. Unlike on a normal disarm attempt, failing the attempt doesn’t allow the defender to attempt to disarm you. This otherwise functions identically to a disarm attempt, as noted above. You can’t snatch an item that is well secured unless you have pinned the wearer (see Grapple). Even then, the defender gains a +4 bonus on his roll to resist the attempt.How do we determine if an item is poorly or well secured? Well secured items would require grapple/pin or sleight of hand to steal....but I have no idea how to fairly decide how items are classified.
Sindorin 07-22-05, 02:19 PM	Perhaps the number of items that you can secure is limited to a certain number... but I can't find this anywhere. I hadn't considered that you could take stuff besides a weapon they are holding.
Mind Rogue 07-22-05, 02:29 PM	Along the same lines, what happens if you end the fight with someone else's goods? Do you get to keep it or do you have to return it? I've had devious idea of taking someone's stuff so that they can't use it against me, but I didn't think about what happens after the fight. Also, I've recieved tactics from both Waywreth and TCB, and I've sent a PM to Cat for my All vs All fight as Niobe and to Zerone for the Team fight as Zahrat. I plan on running the Amion/Riddick fight soon.
Cerebus13 07-22-05, 02:34 PM	Along the same lines, what happens if you end the fight with someone else's goods? Do you get to keep it or do you have to return it? I've had devious idea of taking someone's stuff so that they can't use it against me, but I didn't think about what happens after the fight. Also, I've recieved tactics from both Waywreth and TCB, and I've sent a PM to Cat for my All vs All fight as Niobe and to Zerone for the Team fight as Zahrat. I plan on running the Amion/Riddick fight soon.They get returned after the battle, would be unfair to allow permanent stealing of items from players. I'm rather unsure on how to treat items. I'm inclined to say that anything worn on the outside of your body that isn't secured with sturdy materials (a necklace would be loose, whereas a backpack would not be) is fair game...however I want a second opinion from someone who may have dealt with this before.
TelinArtho 07-22-05, 02:44 PM	@Zerone - Tactics for Ambellon sent via PM
Salrantol 07-22-05, 02:55 PM	@Vathelokai: @Salrantol: I hope I followed your tactics as you intended. I considered going straight for the scorching ray, but with her AC of 22(hiding behind horse) you would have needed a 17 or higher to hit. This was a tough match for Barak. The ork-dragon can deal tons of dmg every round. Some tatoos, like biofeedback or vigor, might be a good addition to your arsenal. Her AC would not have been 22. Scorching ray is a touch attack, so even if she made her DC15 Ride check (not a sure thing), her AC would only have been 16, so it's still a 50/50 shot (which, incidentally, is an infinitely better chance than taking her on in melee unbuffed). Also, Biofeedback would do nothing in this fight, seeing as the breath weapon is unaffected and she hit hard enough to knock Barak out even if he had Biofeedback up. Also, due to the CoCo rules, the only Vigor tattoo you could get is a 5 hp one, which would have barely kept me alive for another action. Incidentally, I am curious why, if (according to my tactics) I'm readying to cast true strike when she uses her breath weapon and she's readying to use her breath weapon when I cast a spell, that I'm the one who takes the readied action first? It's a tough enough fight and my tactics somehow managed to be ambiguous (and somehow my turn order got messed up), so you don't need to rerun, but I would like that last question answered please.
Mind Rogue 07-22-05, 03:36 PM	They get returned after the battle, would be unfair to allow permanent stealing of items from players. I'm rather unsure on how to treat items. I'm inclined to say that anything worn on the outside of your body that isn't secured with sturdy materials (a necklace would be loose, whereas a backpack would not be) is fair game...however I want a second opinion from someone who may have dealt with this before. That's what I figured. Anyway, what would I do with an extra bow? Besides, it keeps in the theme of what happens to sundered weapons and what if someone was to turn the table on me. Anyway, the match between Amion and Ridick is up.
xanadu 07-22-05, 04:02 PM	Salrantol - pitlord discretion I would imagine. Often times as a pitlord, I have both gladiators say "I ready vs A" while the other one says "I ready for B". The pitlord has to keep things moving. I probably would have had Darconis breathe first in that situation. Since you had acid protection, made the concentration check, and Draconis already had initiative (i.e. nothing to lose) there was no real harm done the way he did it. The real harm was again a bad starting block and unlucky initiative 2 weeks in a row; its tough to swallow I know as my 2 eldest gladiators are on streaks of bad luck. I'd rather have a real fight too. EDIT: Vathelokai - When a gladiator brings an ally, the rewards and experience are adjusted slightly. This Page (http://users.bigpond.net.au/petersd/coco/allycalc/) I find useful for calculating such matters. Since Draconis brought an ECL 1 ally, her reward is: 1050xp/1050gc (1200xp/1200gc) -13% Also, Barak gets his adjusted as well: 450xp/450gc (400xp/400gc -0% +13%)
nightbanegod 07-22-05, 06:44 PM	i got a major beef with my fight ... sorry tellinartho.... but where in the HECK does invisibility allow my hide checks to be so low or for his spot check to see me to be so low a DC from the SRD INVISIBILITY The ability to move about unseen is not foolproof. While they can’t be seen, invisible creatures can be heard, smelled, or felt. Invisibility makes a creature undetectable by vision, including darkvision. Invisibility does not, by itself, make a creature immune to critical hits, but it does make the creature immune to extra damage from being a ranger’s favored enemy and from sneak attacks. A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Spot check. The observer gains a hunch that “something’s there” but can’t see it or target it accurately with an attack. A creature who is holding still is very hard to notice (DC 30). An inanimate object, an unliving creature holding still, or a completely immobile creature is even harder to spot (DC 40). It’s practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature’s location with a Spot check, and even if a character succeeds on such a check, the invisible creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance). A creature can use hearing to find an invisible creature. A character can make a Listen check for this purpose as a free action each round. A Listen check result at least equal to the invisible creature’s Move Silently check result reveals its presence. (A creature with no ranks in Move Silently makes a Move Silently check as a Dexterity check to which an armor check penalty applies.) A successful check lets a character hear an invisible creature “over there somewhere.” It’s practically impossible to pinpoint the location of an invisible creature. A Listen check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible creature’s location. Listen Check DCs to Detect Invisible Creatures Invisible Creature Is . . . DC In combat or speaking 0 Moving at half speed Move Silently check result Moving at full speed Move Silently check result –4 Running or charging Move Silently check result –20 Some distance away +1 per 10 feet Behind an obstacle (door) +5 Behind an obstacle (stone wall) +15 A creature can grope about to find an invisible creature. A character can make a touch attack with his hands or a weapon into two adjacent 5-foot squares using a standard action. If an invisible target is in the designated area, there is a 50% miss chance on the touch attack. If successful, the groping character deals no damage but has successfully pinpointed the invisible creature’s current location. (If the invisible creature moves, its location, obviously, is once again unknown.) If an invisible creature strikes a character, the character struck still knows the location of the creature that struck him (until, of course, the invisible creature moves). The only exception is if the invisible creature has a reach greater than 5 feet. In this case, the struck character knows the general location of the creature but has not pinpointed the exact location. If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has pinpointed, he attacks normally, but the invisible creature still benefits from full concealment (and thus a 50% miss chance). A particularly large and slow creature might get a smaller miss chance. If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has not pinpointed, have the player choose the space where the character will direct the attack. If the invisible creature is there, conduct the attack normally. If the enemy’s not there, roll the miss chance as if it were there, don’t let the player see the result, and tell him that the character has missed. That way the player doesn’t know whether the attack missed because the enemy’s not there or because you successfully rolled the miss chance. If an invisible character picks up a visible object, the object remains visible. One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour fell off or blew away). An invisible creature can pick up a small visible item and hide it on his person (tucked in a pocket or behind a cloak) and render it effectively invisible. Invisible creatures leave tracks. They can be tracked normally. Footprints in sand, mud, or other soft surfaces can give enemies clues to an invisible creature’s location. An invisible creature in the water displaces water, revealing its location. The invisible creature, however, is still hard to see and benefits from concealment. A creature with the scent ability can detect an invisible creature as it would a visible one. A creature with the Blind-Fight feat has a better chance to hit an invisible creature. Roll the miss chance twice, and he misses only if both rolls indicate a miss. (Alternatively, make one 25% miss chance roll rather than two 50% miss chance rolls.) A creature with blindsight can attack (and otherwise interact with) creatures regardless of invisibility. An invisible burning torch still gives off light, as does an invisible object with a light spell (or similar spell) cast upon it. Ethereal creatures are invisible. Since ethereal creatures are not materially present, Spot checks, Listen checks, Scent, Blind-Fight, and blindsight don’t help locate them. Incorporeal creatures are often invisible. Scent, Blind-Fight, and blindsight don’t help creatures find or attack invisible, incorporeal creatures, but Spot checks and possibly Listen checks can help. Invisible creatures cannot use gaze attacks. Invisibility does not thwart detect spells. Since some creatures can detect or even see invisible creatures, it is helpful to be able to hide even when invisible. and yet he was able to PINPOINT me 3x times including once with rapid shot ... and didnt even make the DCs since i was NEVER within 30 feet i believe..... I DEMAND A RECOUNT...ing... of the fight!!! *edit* also i would like clarification on those rolls... like for example who's roll is who's and the total since it just leaves it hanging. I would also like to see that internet dice roller thingy page thats supposed to be used unless tellinartho did something different since i got issues with mythos rolling nat 20s twice in a row to spot me
Zerone 07-22-05, 06:53 PM	Question regarding using the Disarm action to grab items. The relevant text is highlighted in this quote:How do we determine if an item is poorly or well secured? Well secured items would require grapple/pin or sleight of hand to steal....but I have no idea how to fairly decide how items are classified. In the PHB it states 'Grabbing Items' as the ability to snatch an item worn by the target such as a necklace or a pair of goggles. If the item is poorly secured (a loose cloak, a brooch pinned to the front of a tunic, etc.) the attacker gets a +4. You can't snatch well securd items, such as a ring or bracelet, unless the target is pinned. Hope this helps... *•. Z
Cerebus13 07-22-05, 07:03 PM	In the PHB it states 'Grabbing Items' as the ability to snatch an item worn by the target such as a necklace or a pair of goggles. If the item is poorly secured (a loose cloak, a brooch pinned to the front of a tunic, etc.) the attacker gets a +4. You can't snatch well securd items, such as a ring or bracelet, unless the target is pinned. Hope this helps... *•. ZSo are items stored inside of your pockets, like a potion stored within an Explorer's Outfit for instance, considered well or poorly secured? The wording is a bit vague on what is and isn't poorly secured so I want to be sure I get it correct.
Vathelokai 07-22-05, 08:39 PM	@Vathelokai: Incidentally, I am curious why, if (according to my tactics) I'm readying to cast true strike when she uses her breath weapon and she's readying to use her breath weapon when I cast a spell, that I'm the one who takes the readied action first? It's a tough enough fight and my tactics somehow managed to be ambiguous (and somehow my turn order got messed up), so you don't need to rerun, but I would like that last question answered please. Draconis held her action (ready to breathe when spell cast) at init20. At init7 Barak began reading the scroll. Draconis interupts (resetting to init8) and uses breath weapon. The ready actions work a bit strangely, in my opinion; your initiative resets to one step before the action you interupt, meaning that the interupted action has not happened yet. I appologize for the ambiguity. Barak did not take an action first; he made a concentration check and reflex save durring Draconis' turn then proceded with his action. Looking at it now, I realize that I should have written all of that into Barak's turn, then reset init at the end of the round. Does this answer your question? I probably would have had Darconis breathe first in that situation. Since you had acid protection, made the concentration check, and Draconis already had initiative (i.e. nothing to lose) there was no real harm done the way he did it. Rewards change when bringing an ally... Am I mistaken that the breathweapon is a standard action? I went with that assumption (I found nothing in SRD to the contrary) and had you full move on the first round, leaving no time to breathe or tap a tatoo. I forgot that the horse was an ally. I will change the rewards now.
Jh316 07-22-05, 08:58 PM	What do I do if neither of the people I'm running for havn't sent tactics, and neither have default tactics? Neither Madner nor KerlanRayne have sent me tactics.
Maraxus 07-22-05, 09:14 PM	Nightbanegod: Your hide checks were d20 -3 -5 +20, or +2(dex) -5 (armor check penalty) -5 (moving at full speed) +20 (Invisibility), for a total of +12 vs my spot of +9 the propability that I win 2 out of 3 times is about 1/3, so quite possible, allthrough it is unusual that I rolled 1, 20, 20 for this. And this are the only two times I pinpointed you. In the other turn (the one with the rapid shot, I guess you mean round 5), I thought I had pinpointed you by sound (what I only failed by 5 ft). The other times I fired at you (rounds 2, 8 and 9), you were visible. Edit: Of cause, I have only another very subjective point of view in this case, too and so I will wait for an offical jugement about this fight.
Caterane 07-22-05, 09:18 PM	First All vs All fight is up. Santos -> Niobe -> Vorlag -> Milo -> Santos I have learned a lot about it but I'll tell you tomorow; it's too late now.
Deadly Assassin 07-22-05, 09:31 PM	Hey Cat, if its not in Milo's tactics, how can he decide to avoid Vorag's overrun? And not that it mattered, but why did you have Vorag CDG the unconcious combatants instead of going after Niobe first? Just wondering. Edit: Meh...oh well, at least Vorag wasn't the first, or even the second to die.
TCB 07-22-05, 09:48 PM	Sorry to be a nick picker but..... Proteciton from law, good, evil, choatic says.. This ward prevents Mental control over the person including enchantment(charm) and enchantment (compulsion) pg 266 And hold person says..... HOLD PERSON enchantment (compulsion)[mind-affecting] So should this battle get re-done? Edit: didnt want to be rude at all but thats why I picked up these becuase they save me on will.
xanadu 07-22-05, 09:55 PM	Draconis held her action (ready to breathe when spell cast) at init20. At init7 Barak began reading the scroll. Draconis interupts (resetting to init8) and uses breath weapon. The ready actions work a bit strangely, in my opinion; your initiative resets to one step before the action you interupt, meaning that the interupted action has not happened yet. I appologize for the ambiguity. Barak did not take an action first; he made a concentration check and reflex save durring Draconis' turn then proceded with his action. Looking at it now, I realize that I should have written all of that into Barak's turn, then reset init at the end of the round. Does this answer your question? Am I mistaken that the breathweapon is a standard action? I went with that assumption (I found nothing in SRD to the contrary) and had you full move on the first round, leaving no time to breathe or tap a tatoo. I forgot that the horse was an ally. I will change the rewards now. You are right it is a standard action. I meant to have Draconis have the horse run rather than double move on round one, the horse has no actions left but Draconis does. Dont worry about it as the idea was to end the fight quick. Since this happened it's no big deal. You initiative manner in handling the ready action is logical when 2 gladiators are in a "ready loop". The pitlord has to make a decision as to who goes first.
Gonbow 07-22-05, 10:07 PM	Hey Cat, from Niobe's sheet... Attacks: Longbow +8 ranged, 1d6 [20/x3] Rapier +8 melee, 1d4 [18-20/x2] Dagger +7 melee or +8 ranged, 1d3 [19-20/x2] [+2bab,+4dex,+1halfling = +7 ranged and +6 melee] Tanglefoot Bag +8 ranged touch (entanglement) [+2bab,+4dex,+1halfling = +7 not +8] Thunderstone +8 ranged touch (deafen) [+7 not +8] +2 BAB, +4 Dex, +1 Size, +1 Halfing = +8 ranged for Dagger, Bag and Thunderstone. And +7 melee for dagger/rapier, +7 ranged for longbow. Half wrong, half right ;) As for Santos... Sorry I forgot to set his weight. I'll accept 91 lbs as his official weight and note it when I update his sheet when I get a chance. Okay, I'm confused, how can the posion from a weapon affect me if all the damage is absorbed by the protection from arrows? When you attack someone with a poisoned weapon, you have to deal at least one point of damage to get said poison through to them. From the Protection from Arrows description in SRD: The warded creature gains resistance to ranged weapons. The subject gains damage reduction 10/magic against ranged weapons. (This spell doesn’t grant you the ability to damage creatures with similar damage reduction.) Once the spell has prevented a total of 10 points of damage per caster level (maximum 100 points), it is discharged. From the Damage Reduction explanation in the SRD: Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact. And I looked up drow poison which says it is Injury, not Contact... so I wouldn't have had to make that fortitude saving throw. This was a pretty huge battle, and I understand if you don't want to rerun from the point that Santos went down, but clarifying these facts for the future is a good thing, as it might just save my ass ;) Thanks for running the prototype all vs all Caterane. On a side note: Damnit, all that buffing gone to waste! Insanely expensive :P
Deadly Assassin 07-22-05, 10:24 PM	Okay, I'm confused, how can the posion from a weapon affect me if all the damage is absorbed by the protection from arrows? Splash damage that happens to get into your eye and/or mouth? ;) :P Good fight though.
TelinArtho 07-22-05, 10:39 PM	Well Nightbanegod I am certainly up for discussion on the matter. Lets address the whole invisibility thing - and I will remind you that I am relatively new to 3.5. When you are invisible, there are still visual "clues" that someone can use to pinpoint you. As such, you get a +20 to your hide (this is how I interpret the following: A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Spot check. The observer gains a hunch that “something’s there” but can’t see it or target it accurately with an attack. A creature who is holding still is very hard to notice (DC 30). An inanimate object, an unliving creature holding still, or a completely immobile creature is even harder to spot (DC 40). It’s practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature’s location with a Spot check, and even if a character succeeds on such a check, the invisible creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance). Now, I don't know if the 30feet applies to the bolded sentence or not - however, in the case of your particular battle - there were two instances where it happened and he actually sighted you: 1. Boris sees the shots and tries to see Mythos (Spot 18 + 1 vs -8 + 7), moves 30ft to the next rock (MS 11 -3 -5 = 3, Hide 3 -3 -5 +20 = 15). Round 6: Mythos searches for his enemy (Spot 20 + 10 vs 15 + 3 - spotted), and takes a shot (18 + 11 vs AC 17 + 4, hit, Miss chance (50% - 21% - miss)), and moves away (12,21) Here - if you notice, the spot check was opposed by your Hide result (Rolled a 3, +2 dex, -5 armor check, -5 for moving greater than half speed, +20 for being invisible) modified by -1 per ten feet. In this case, the distance is 30ft - so the modifier is -3. In that case - it seems the 30ft mark was crossed anyway. Since he missed - it obviously wouldn't have made much difference on the result of the battle. 2. Boris takes a double move closer (MS 6 -3 - 5 = -2, Hide 10 -3 -5 + 20 = 12) (10,21) Round 7: Mythos searches for his enemy (Spot 20 + 10 vs 12 + 1 - spotted), and takes a shot (12 + 10 vs AC 17, hit, Miss chance (50% - 96% - hit), Damage 1d8+4 = 6+4 = 10) and moves away (17,18) In this case, notice again that Mythos is able to spot you - and you are only 10 feet away. Again, this is well within the burden of 30ft. However, in addition, I didn't have him make a Listen check against your MS (which would have been a net -1 with distance). Given his +9 modifier (it appears I did give him a +10 modifier in a couple of case - I will go back and make sure they didn't affect anything), it is about 50-50 that he'd pinpoint you there (and to satisfy what I would have rolled: 12) ------------ Essentially, if I did handle invisibility wrong outside of 30ft - it clearly was working fine within 30ft (which is when it mattered). As far as the rolls go - at the time I did the fight, I did not have internet access, so I used good old fashioned regular dice. I do intend on using an online roller in the future, but in this case it wasn't an option. If you truly need the totals, I will go ahead and edit them in. In all cases, the rolled number is the first number that appeared (the later numbers are all of the modifiers). [and since it specifically says that it is the pitlords discretion to use an online roller or actual dice - I don't think you can ask for a rerolled match]
TelinArtho 07-22-05, 10:51 PM	I did find a few cases where I had given Mythos a +10 modifier instead of a +9 modifier on a spot or a listen check. It didn't change any of the results - so no change was made to any of the rounds. I also added in totaled sums of the values as you requested. Hope they help.
Vathelokai 07-22-05, 10:57 PM	You are right it is a standard action. I meant to have Draconis have the horse run rather than double move on round one, the horse has no actions left but Draconis does. Dont worry about it as the idea was to end the fight quick. Since this happened it's no big deal. You initiative manner in handling the ready action is logical when 2 gladiators are in a "ready loop". The pitlord has to make a decision as to who goes first. I only belabor the point because I don't want to make mistakes in the future. Both players have agreed to the outcome. I never use mounts so I searched Wizards.com and found "All about ride part 1 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a) and part 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a)." These are rules compilations by Skip Williams, where he pulled ride mount rules from various core books and clarified them. If I read the rules correctly, when a mount moves, it takes up the move action of the rider and the mount. As for the run, since Draconis didn't see Barak right off I went with the blitz move from the tactics. If I understand correctly, once a move has been declaired the char. will follow through with it, and is unable to change the destination or type of move. Since Draconis had moved more then 70 ft. when she saw Barak, she couldn't change the action to get closer or do a standard. Am I interpreting the rules correctly?
Cerebus13 07-22-05, 11:07 PM	Bumping again for another opinion on the following: Is an item carried within a person's clothing (such as a potion in an Explorer's Outfit) considered loosely or securely fastened to the character? This is an important distinction for usage of Disarm to Grab Items.
TCB 07-22-05, 11:16 PM	I posted in Violations but will post it here too Protection vs (good, evil, lawful, neutral) says Enchantment(complusion) and Enchantment(charm) are prevented Hold person is a Enchantment(complusion). In my fight, I was hit with hold person and then coup de grace to die. Is thier away to go back and reenact this battle from that point. seeing my +8 to hit vs. his AC 21 isnt the greatest standards but with his main tatic negated from the pro lawful. I think the battle would be different to say the least.
xanadu 07-22-05, 11:20 PM	I only belabor the point because I don't want to make mistakes in the future. Both players have agreed to the outcome. I never use mounts so I searched Wizards.com and found "All about ride part 1 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a) and part 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a)." These are rules compilations by Skip Williams, where he pulled ride mount rules from various core books and clarified them. If I read the rules correctly, when a mount moves, it takes up the move action of the rider and the mount. As for the run, since Draconis didn't see Barak right off I went with the blitz move from the tactics. If I understand correctly, once a move has been declaired the char. will follow through with it, and is unable to change the destination or type of move. Since Draconis had moved more then 70 ft. when she saw Barak, she couldn't change the action to get closer or do a standard. Am I interpreting the rules correctly? Yes, the way you ran the fight was correct. Since you executed a double move for Draconis's horse in round 1 then Draconis cant breathe at the end of the double move. Any such attack action, be it archery, spellcasting, or breathing by a mounted character must come at the midpoint on a double move and sometimes there are penalties for doing this (concentration checks, minuses to firing a bow, etc). I wanted to run my first move but I did not make this as clear as I should have in my tactics. Even though there was some confusion in this area, you did follow the spirit of my tactics quite well afterwords so you get my stamp of approval for pitlording and would not mind at all if you pitlord for me again. I think its a good sign you are asking questions; this shows promise as a pitlord.
TelinArtho 07-22-05, 11:34 PM	What do I do if neither of the people I'm running for havn't sent tactics, and neither have default tactics? Neither Madner nor KerlanRayne have sent me tactics. @Jh316 I just want to make sure that you did receive the tactics for myself and Prince FyreDragon and that you are aware of the fight. In your post, you make specific mention of the other fight - but I want to make sure
Salrantol 07-22-05, 11:36 PM	Draconis held her action (ready to breathe when spell cast) at init20. At init7 Barak began reading the scroll. Draconis interupts (resetting to init8) and uses breath weapon. The ready actions work a bit strangely, in my opinion; your initiative resets to one step before the action you interupt, meaning that the interupted action has not happened yet. Ready an action to cast true strike from scroll upon her using her breath weapon. That was my question. Since we both wanted to ready, I was just wondering why it was that Barak made his "readied" action, thus triggering Draconis' readied action. I understand that there is discretion involved, and just wanted to know your reasoning.
Salrantol 07-22-05, 11:52 PM	Sorry to be a nick picker but..... Proteciton from law, good, evil, choatic says.. This ward prevents Mental control over the person including enchantment(charm) and enchantment (compulsion) pg 266 To be more specific, it says: enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person Hold person does not grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, therefore the protection spell only gives the +2 bonus to saves against the spell as far as hold person is concerned.
Vathelokai 07-22-05, 11:56 PM	@Salrantol: I see my error. I believe I was thinking that Barak knew she was readying the breathweapon and considered that the same as starting to use the breathweapon. Though the stare down would have added story,(both char redied against the opponent, both waiting for the other to flinch) it presents a pitlord problem, since it would have gone on indefinitely. In the future, I will PM players if I find endless ready loops in the tactics.
Sunwolf 07-23-05, 12:00 AM	I posted in Violations but will post it here too Protection vs (good, evil, lawful, neutral) says Enchantment(complusion) and Enchantment(charm) are prevented Hold person is a Enchantment(complusion). In my fight, I was hit with hold person and then coup de grace to die. Is thier away to go back and reenact this battle from that point. seeing my +8 to hit vs. his AC 21 isnt the greatest standards but with his main tatic negated from the pro lawful. I think the battle would be different to say the least. From SRD: Protection from Evil Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). Protection from evil protects from possession and mind control that give the caster ongoing control over the caster. Hold person is a paralysis effect and is not ongoing control thus not negated by protection from evil.
Kaigan 07-23-05, 02:51 AM	I have not received tactics from soullord for Heindel. will be running the fight via default tactics.
madner 07-23-05, 03:25 AM	What do I do if neither of the people I'm running for havn't sent tactics, and neither have default tactics? Neither Madner nor KerlanRayne have sent me tactics. I sent you mine yesterday per email. There should be Adlar somewhere in the subject line. :D Shall I resend, or send them per PM?
Zerone 07-23-05, 03:40 AM	Bumping again for another opinion on the following: Is an item carried within a person's clothing (such as a potion in an Explorer's Outfit) considered loosely or securely fastened to the character? This is an important distinction for usage of Disarm to Grab Items. Send a PM to the Pilords account... to make sure it gets noticed. *•. Z
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 04:15 AM	I remember at some point seeing a link that calculates the cover/conceal in the arena map. I need it and I cannot find it. Does anyone know where it is? Should I just use my best judgement?
Caterane 07-23-05, 05:17 AM	Hey Cat, if its not in Milo's tactics, how can he decide to avoid Vorag's overrun? And not that it mattered, but why did you have Vorag CDG the unconcious combatants instead of going after Niobe first? Just wondering. - He can choose to avoid an overrun (PHB,p157). I'm not sure but do you mean I should have let the feeble halfling block the orc? Surely not. - After killing Milo, Vorag had a new target: Santos. He could not attack Niobe. And I looked up drow poison which says it is Injury, not Contact... so I wouldn't have had to make that fortitude saving throw. This was a pretty huge battle, and I understand if you don't want to rerun from the point that Santos went down, but clarifying these facts for the future is a good thing, as it might just save my ass Thanks for running the prototype all vs all Caterane. No, that needs to be corrected. Sorry, anyhow I thought the poison be contact. :crazy: I'll rerun it at once from the poison attack on.
LLMadCow 07-23-05, 05:24 AM	I remember at some point seeing a link that calculates the cover/conceal in the arena map. I need it and I cannot find it. Does anyone know where it is? Should I just use my best judgement? Here's the link.... (http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/coco/start.html) but you will have to sort out where some of the newer obstacles are located, since the map is older and has yet to be updated. :( LL Or if you are wondering, you could run the fight as though Omo-Na can just shoot through walls. There'd be no complaints from me.
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 05:57 AM	Here's the link.... (http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/coco/start.html) but you will have to sort out where some of the newer obstacles are located, since the map is older and has yet to be updated. :( LL Or if you are wondering, you could run the fight as though Omo-Na can just shoot through walls. There'd be no complaints from me.Thanks. The link is not as cool as I expected, so I just downloaded the new map and am drawing lines on it with MSPaint. I'll consider the shooting through walls thing if this fight drags on much longer. You'll see what I mean later.
Caterane 07-23-05, 06:30 AM	Ok, now that Santos joined the fray, the fight became a completely new one, with a different outcome. Interesting how such a thing has an impact on the whole fight. Rerun: Santos -> Niobe -> Vorlag -> Milo -> Santos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6768087)
LLMadCow 07-23-05, 06:33 AM	Thanks. The link is not as cool as I expected, so I just downloaded the new map and am drawing lines on it with MSPaint. I'll consider the shooting through walls thing if this fight drags on much longer. You'll see what I mean later. Sadly, I am very aware. Sneaky builds, versus not very observant builds. I never said this before, and nothing has been posted, so take this for whatever you will, but Omo-Na can use a Tattoo of Synthe if he can safely activate it at a distance. He'd use it to see sound since his listen check is better. Omo-Na can outmanuver for the fight. However a single Mindthrust can drop Omo-na. A single bow crit, or rolling a 7 or 8 damage, would drop Chibi-Moon (unless she has something else up). Hang in there. Did the charge + trip make sense?
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 07:53 AM	Did the charge + trip make sense? Yes. Thanks for the tips.
Gonbow 07-23-05, 09:47 AM	Ok, now that Santos joined the fray, the fight became a completely new one, with a different outcome. Interesting how such a thing has an impact on the whole fight. Rerun: Santos -> Niobe -> Vorlag -> Milo -> Santos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6768087) Well, the downing of a gladiator does tend to have a significant impact in 1vs1, should it be so different in all vs all? ;) Thanks for rerunning the fight. That is an interesting outcome, certainly not what I expected.
nightbanegod 07-23-05, 10:20 AM	ok ... fine... i might not be happy with the outcome of my fight, but i will settle with it after closer examination of the round by round rereading. i will simply just have to make by tactics a little more thorough in the future me thinks... :( thanks for pitlording tellinartho
SoulLord 07-23-05, 10:57 AM	I have not received tactics from soullord for Heindel. will be running the fight via default tactics. Errr the fight was extended I thought that the tactics already sent were passed from one pitlord to the other in case of reassignment.
Mind Rogue 07-23-05, 11:42 AM	I posted in Violations but will post it here too Protection vs (good, evil, lawful, neutral) says Enchantment(complusion) and Enchantment(charm) are prevented Hold person is a Enchantment(complusion). In my fight, I was hit with hold person and then coup de grace to die. Is thier away to go back and reenact this battle from that point. seeing my +8 to hit vs. his AC 21 isnt the greatest standards but with his main tatic negated from the pro lawful. I think the battle would be different to say the least. As has been previously stated, Pro:Law only protects against "ongoing control over the subject". Since hold person only paralyzes the subject but does not grant control over them, you remained locked up in your full body bind. This is a little different from saying that it protects against all charm and compulsion effects. Also, I don't think this is the kind of thing that belongs on the violations board. @Cat I think you forgot to incorporate the penalties that Vorag recieves for being hit by the tanglefoot bag. While the reflex save keeps him from being rooted to the floor, he still suffers the -2 penalty on attack rolls, a -4 penalty to dex, moves at only half speed, and must make a concentration check to cast spells (like the spiritual weapon that he cast later that round). Hey Cat, from Niobe's sheet... Attacks: Longbow +8 ranged, 1d6 [20/x3] Rapier +8 melee, 1d4 [18-20/x2] Dagger +7 melee or +8 ranged, 1d3 [19-20/x2] [+2bab,+4dex,+1halfling = +7 ranged and +6 melee] Tanglefoot Bag +8 ranged touch (entanglement) [+2bab,+4dex,+1halfling = +7 not +8] Thunderstone +8 ranged touch (deafen) [+7 not +8] +2 BAB, +4 Dex, +1 Size, +1 Halfing = +8 ranged for Dagger, Bag and Thunderstone. And +7 melee for dagger/rapier, +7 ranged for longbow. Half wrong, half right That's because the bow and the rapier are masterwork. While it's not marked here, the attribute is taken into account, and if you scroll down to my equipment list, it is marked there.
Gonbow 07-23-05, 11:46 AM	That's because the bow and the rapier are masterwork. While it's not marked here, the attribute is taken into account, and if you scroll down to my equipment list, it is marked there. Well there you go! All right. I thought it looked okay ;)
Jindl 07-23-05, 11:51 AM	@Iced / Pittbull - Sorry for the delay in sending tactics. I'll have them to you both in the next 8-12 hours. -Jindl
Pittbull 07-23-05, 11:56 AM	No problem, I'll run the fight on monday.
Caterane 07-23-05, 12:08 PM	@Mindrogue: thanks but the SW didn't hit anything and Vorag missed too. With half movement he is still only 5ft slower than you and the tanglefoot bag lasted only 3 rounds.
xanadu 07-23-05, 02:29 PM	The other FFA fight it up. There is certainly a lot of stall potential with 3 gladiators so pitlords need to be vigilent about the 5 round rule. Cat, did I figure out the XP correctly? Someone brought an ally so I figured that into the calculations. Something else about XP. There should be a reward for surviving! In my FFA, A killed B B killed C C did nothing but die. A and B get the same rewards, doesn't seem right.
Meek Head 07-23-05, 04:15 PM	@ xanadu: I have a scythe listed under allies equipment, as I do not wish to carry it (weight) I thought you'd see it but I didn't list it as an attack form, my fault. Any chance you could go back and re-run the fight from that point? I would just grab it off the horse.
Deadly Assassin 07-23-05, 04:41 PM	Hey Xan, if in round 7 Maylee moved out of my base, why didnt that provoke an AoO from Ormos? It doesn't state its a 5' step. And how did Ormos not have Tattoos of Skate?
xanadu 07-23-05, 04:48 PM	Meek Head: You really need to indicate this in your tactics. Since Ormos rolled a natural 20 on his fort save you wont kill him then so I see no reason to change the fight. If anything, you want Ormos to live longer because that is more rounds he can kill Maylee. Deadly Assassin: Apparently, skate has a 100 lb. limit per manifester level. This means you'll need a ML 4 skate stone to use this power. Withdraw action allows a gladiator to freely escape the sqaure they are in.
Meek Head 07-23-05, 04:59 PM	2d4 x4 average is more hp than Ormos has. He could die easily. In round 5 I did nothing, leaving me with first initiative in round 6. When Ormos runs past me in round 6 I pinpoint, and know his location, 10' away from Maylee, and they would both subjected to my Fear spell, as I would go after Ormos and before Maylee. CDG Ormos and possibly a free round or 2 of MM scrolls on Maylee means I could win outright.
Meek Head 07-23-05, 05:04 PM	Ignore the Fear thing, I had it wrong, sorry :)
LLMadCow 07-23-05, 05:18 PM	Deadly Assassin: Apparently, skate has a 100 lb. limit per manifester level. This means you'll need a ML 4 skate stone to use this power. Withdraw action allows a gladiator to freely escape the sqaure they are in. Ahhhhhh! Poor Deadly Assassin. Nope. This needs to be addressed and corrected quickly! I am not going to copy the entire skate to save us all some time, but I will post and explain what matters. Skate Psychoportation Range: Personal or touch; see text Target: You or one willing creature or one unattended object (total weight up to 100 lb./level); see text. This is how you need to read the section that pertains to target: Target: You OR Target: One willing creature OR Target: One unattended object (total weight up to 100 lb./level) When you get down into the descriptive text of the power, the only area it discusses weight is when it discusses the unattended object: You, another willing creature, or an unattended object can slide along solid ground as if on smooth ice. If you manifest skate on yourself or another creature, the subject of the power retains equilibrium by mental desire alone, allowing her to gracefully skate along the ground, turn, or stop suddenly as desired. The skater’s land speed increases by 15 feet. (This adjustment is treated as an enhancement bonus.) As with any effect that increases speed, this power affects the subject’s maximum jumping distance. The subject can skate up or down any incline or decline she could normally walk upon without mishap, though skating up an incline reduces the subject’s speed to normal, while skating down a decline increases her speed by an additional 15 feet. (This adjustment is treated as a circumstance bonus.) If you manifest skate on an object, treat the object as having only one-tenth of its normal weight for the purpose of dragging it along the ground. Ormos would have had the Skate Tattoos available for the fight. I also want to mention that Ormos paid too much for the tattoos. Tattoos of Skate cost 50gp each, and he has 2 listed as 200gp; they should be 100gp for 2.
Salrantol 07-23-05, 05:39 PM	Ormos would have had the Skate Tattoos available for the fight. I also want to mention that Ormos paid too much for the tattoos. Tattoos of Skate cost 50gp each, and he has 2 listed as 200gp; they should be 100gp for 2. Actually, since the range of Skate is "Personal or Touch", he could have bought Personal range versions, which would, in fact, cost 100 gp apiece.
Gonbow 07-23-05, 05:46 PM	Actually, since the range of Skate is "Personal or Touch", he could have bought Personal range versions, which would, in fact, cost 100 gp apiece. He could have, but why would he? Touch version costs half as much and does the same thing. Hmmm. Tough choice...
xanadu 07-24-05, 02:25 AM	I think Madcow is right here. I am not sure skate will change anything because Maylee still has 80 movement but I will see tomorrow. Meek Head, the str penalty really cramps the Scythe's style. Avg damage would be (2d4-2)*4 for an average of 12.
xanadu 07-24-05, 11:04 AM	OK, I had Ormos use the skate tattoo. As it turns it, it did allow Ormos to get 2 attacks in against Maylee that he previously didn't. However, with rolls of 3 and 1 they were both misses and the end of the fight still turned out the same.
Meek Head 07-24-05, 11:08 AM	OK, I had Ormos use the skate tattoo. As it turns it, it did allow Ormos to get 2 attacks in against Maylee that he previously didn't. However, with rolls of 3 and 1 they were both misses and the end of the fight still turned out the same. Dude, why didn't you change the cdg while you were editing the fight? Yes the average is lower, but that is why we roll dice. The scythe could have killed him and then I'd be casting MMs at Maylee earlier.
xanadu 07-24-05, 11:27 AM	... As it turns out it made Maylee's win a bit easier.
Gonbow 07-24-05, 11:39 AM	Annix vs Ierok is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6778284#post6778284).
Altaris13 07-24-05, 12:11 PM	@Gonbow: RE: Annix & Ierok Isn't drinking a potion a standard action? And Total defense is also a standard action? I know it doesn't change the outcome of that fight, and this probably belongs in the Tavern thread... But since it was particular to this fight, I'm posting it here. Heck, if anything it would mean that Ierok probably went down sooner.
Gonbow 07-24-05, 01:12 PM	Cor-blimey! Good point. I also made a mistake when they were grappling, even with the 1, Ierok would have managed to deal 5 points of damage to Annix (Guardian Angel pointed this out to me). Neither of these affect the outcome though, so I'm not inclined to rerun at this time. This is the right thread for that though, thank you for mentioning it. That way the next one I run will be all the more correct.
GuardianAngel 07-24-05, 02:12 PM	I got a question about this tho, If you do roll a 1 on a grapple check, becuase it is inreplaced to an attack is a critical miss? on the oppositie end is thier a critical hit?
Deadly Assassin 07-24-05, 02:54 PM	Hey Xan, where are Czernoborg's Concentration checks? None are listed. The DC should be 10 or 15 (depending on how fast Czrno's mount is moving) + the spell level.
Gonbow 07-24-05, 03:09 PM	I got a question about this tho, If you do roll a 1 on a grapple check, becuase it is inreplaced to an attack is a critical miss? on the oppositie end is thier a critical hit? No you don't, because it's not an attack, technically. (This is also why you cant Flurry while grappling) Well, technically you can flurry 'Attack your Opponent' but not 'Damage your Opponent'.
TelinArtho 07-24-05, 03:55 PM	@jh316 about the Damson vs Kraegin fight: There are a couple of errors that I want to note and although at first they may seem trivial, they could prove to make a big difference. 1. My summon spells take 1 round to cast (instead of one action). My hawk would have appeared just before my action on round 2. According to my tactics, it should have approached the southern starting block unless it could see Damson. Furthermore, according to my tactics, it would have appeared in or around (16,-8) Since Damson had hidden behind the column on the opposite side of the arena - I don't know how the hawk could have possibly seen her. There's just no line of sight. 2. On round 2 - the fiendish hawk does not have an action listed - what was it doing? 3. I said to specifically not cast my second summons until Damson is discovered. Even if my hawk had discovered her, I definitely had not - and since the location is on the other side of the battlefield, why start it from my area - rather than, say run towards the center obstacle to cut down on the distance. 4. You had Damson charge her mindblade against the centipedes (which I am fine with), however, since they are mindless (as vermin) - they are not affected by it. (This could actually make a difference in the fight as it was run). 5. To create a mindblade is a move action, so is charging it with psychic strike - so the 2nd attack (Again, this could make a difference in the fight). 5. I don't really understand why you had the summons be so careful in their approaches, although I didn't specifically mention that they should charge and close as quickly as possible. At 4 rounds in duration, a double-moving centipede would only make 320 feet of distance. A running one could close 160 feet in one round. The hawk could have closed 240ft in one round if it needed to - so instead of just one attack - well you get the point. If this is a case where my tactics need to be refined, I am fine with that - I just don't think it makes sense for summoned creatures to fear moving in direct a measure as possible. In essence, my summoned creatures broke down like this: 1. Fiendish hawk (summoned round 1- disappears after its action on round 4) - 1 attack 2. 1st Lg Fiendish Centipede (summoned round 2, disappears after its action on round 5) - 2 attacks 3. 2nd Lg Fiendish Centipede (summoned round 5, killed in round 7) - 1 attack Lastly, I think some of your coordinates may be off because it looks like Kraegin keeps jumping across the y axis.
xanadu 07-24-05, 04:00 PM	Hey Xan, where are Czernoborg's Concentration checks? None are listed. The DC should be 10 or 15 (depending on how fast Czrno's mount is moving) + the spell level. Concentratio checks are only necessary if your mount double moves. Meek Head said in his tactics he didn't wish to risk casting while double moving so he didn't.
Zerone 07-24-05, 04:19 PM	Mostly because you are impatient and didn't wait for me to spend 1 hour of my free time to redo the fight using the scythe which you neither have listed on your character's attack rolls nor in your tactics :rolleyes: As it turns out it made Maylee's win a bit easier. xanadu, I am calling this to your attention because a similar altercation happened with me... I found a mistake on one of the Characters. What should I do? You are supposed to browse over the character sheet briefly and check for mistakes. You should at least check the ability scores, the saves and hitpoints, and take a look at the equipment. If he wants to bring an ally, you have to check wether this ally is allowed or not (see FAQ: Allies). If you have found a mistake, mark it red and write the correct value behind it. You can also post a comment. The more the character sheet matches the Default Sheet, the better. You are also supposed to run the fight with the mistake corrected. If you have enough time, you can send a note to the player and remind him of this mistake. This is especially advised in case the player relied on a certain ability in his tactic which is now not possible anymore. It is not mandatory for you but is considered a convenience, and it might save you a lot of headaches in the after-fight discussion. Post all mistakes you found in the Violations thread. If you'll note the area marked in red, it is obvious that you simply choose the wrong weapon to CDG with, not Meek Head's error. I agree that he should have written it down, making the Pitlords life easier, but in the end you missed it in the equipment. Round 10 Ormos snores Maylee now shoots Czernobog (will save: 11+4=15 pass vs DC 15. bow: 19+5=24 hit, damage: 6+3=9) Czernobog CDG’s Ormos with his scythe even though he shouldn't because he didn't tell his pitlord Please call down. Between the first quote from the FotW thread, what you posted in the fight, and how our altercation went before this, I cannot tell if you are serious or not. We are here to have fun, but with remarks like these it is difficult to enjoy the CoCo as it is difficult to tell sarcasm from snide remarks. I could just let it slide like everyone else, but that's not who I am. If you are angry because you have to fix an error in a fight that you pitlorded do not take it out on the combatants, they didn't make things difficult for you on purpose. Just do your job as a Pitlord, keep your comments that do not pertain to the subject at hand to yourself, and all will be fine. :) How long have you been here at the CoCo? Meek Head has been here what, maybe a month? C'mon, give the guy a break and let's have fun! :cheer: Sincerely, *•. Z
LLMadCow 07-24-05, 04:30 PM	Concentratio checks are only necessary if your mount double moves. Meek Head said in his tactics he didn't wish to risk casting while double moving so he didn't. I will start with the SRD and go from there.... Vigorous Motion: If you are riding on a moving mount, taking a bouncy ride in a wagon, on a small boat in rough water, below-decks in a storm-tossed ship, or simply being jostled in a similar fashion, you must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell. Violent Motion: If you are on a galloping horse, taking a very rough ride in a wagon, on a small boat in rapids or in a storm, on deck in a storm-tossed ship, or being tossed roughly about in a similar fashion, you must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell. Now that we have that established, I agree that if your mount SINGLE MOVES, you do not have to make a concentration check - you cast your spell either before or after his move. However, this only applies to casting a spell that is a Standard Action. Sleep is a FULL ROUND action, and thus requires a a DC 10 + 1 Concentration check if your mount is moving during the casting. When reading the fight, it is very difficult to tell what movement occurrs when. Some rounds have a fair bit of movement going on, and then a single end round location. If I have read things correctly, in round 6, Ormos should have made a listen check (d20 + 6 Listen - 4 Range vs DC0) to hear that Czernobog was casting a spell (Sleep, Verbal). Since he knows that Czernobog is the one hunting him, and the horse is quite obviously there, it makes sense that he would run away from this obvious threat. :twocents:
Jh316 07-24-05, 04:36 PM	It did approach the southern starting block, maybe you need to re-read the coordinates. The columns don't block line of sight, unless they're big like the middle ones. And I don't see what you mean by "Jumping all over the Y axis." There was a typo on one turning -5 into 5, but that's the only case. And yes, running that distance is assuming that there's no obstacles in the way, and the arena isn't exactly clear of obstacles. They had to go through the middle to get to her, unless they divert off to one of the sides. And if you didn't want to cast them from your starting box, you should say where you want to cast them from next time. And are you saying that your summons finding her doesn't mean you did? If that's the case, why did you want me to have the hawk look for her in the first place?
Kaigan 07-24-05, 04:47 PM	Hey guys. My fights are pretty much done. Just writing the stories for them. They will hopefully be up either tonight or tomorrow night. Hope you enjoy the stories. The stories will provide greater depth and insight to my campaign. WHICH STILL NEEDS MORE PEOPLE!!! LOL :) Only kidding, but seriously... I only have one character interested. So please.... if you are interested, give me a shout, hope to start it soon. I'm getting really bored of running arena fights, and I need something new. Thanks. Kaigan
Pittbull 07-24-05, 05:39 PM	@Jindl: Sunday is almost over in Germany, I'd like to run the fight in about 9 hours, please send me something. Jindl is such a cool character, he derserves no default tactic.
xanadu 07-24-05, 05:53 PM	Zerone: You are right in that it is difficult to tell sarcasm from snide remarks. The latter was not my intention. My mistake. Yes the pitlord has the responsibility looking at equipment, but responsibility should not end here. Look at the character's sheet in question. If you can identify the Scythe as the preferred coup de' grace weapon without a magnifying glass then here is a :cookie: for you. Maybe you can :bow: In general I believe it is unfair to the gladiator's opponents to have things buried and not clearly listed. Still in the end you are right :king: In the end I did redo the fight on my own accord when I wasn't so sure it was the fair thing to do w/ respects to the other gladiators mostly because Meek Head has not been here for years and I felt it was an honest mistake. But I am human so I did not really appreciate comments suggesting this was my obligation to do so. This is what I was upset over. Meek Head: I did not mean to be snide. We both could have expressed our concerns in more :cheer: ways. Madcow: Fight remarks edited for single-move clarity at time in question. Ormos did move away by charging his target. I suppose he could have moved elsewhere to avoid sleep. Maylee is much faster than he is and can see him, so charging at that point seemed the best thing he could do. Sometimes you need to make a saving throw to win a fight.
xanadu 07-24-05, 05:58 PM	With all the level 3 people on the character, it should not be hard to get folks to enter Kaigan's campaign. I wonder if it is because the credit cost. Most of the people on campaigns have the credits to spare and the ECL 3 list is made up of lots of people with no credits. I have a gladiator on campaign otherwise I'd signup. @ everyone not on a capmaign, Kaigan is a good pitlord and will run an enjoyable campaign. It really is a good opportunity to flesh out your characetr and make him something more than a block of statistics. Send him a PM :thumbsup:
Cerebus13 07-24-05, 06:02 PM	@Zerone & xanadu First off, let me say that running Pixie fights is very time consuming. I've been running this fight since I woke up this morning :weep:. As per Caterane's instructions I treated a Wand as a "loosely secured" object for purposes of Disarm. Asmerovial stole the Wand and ran away with it. As per xanadu's tactics I had Ripper continuously cast Faerie Fire at the Pixie in hopes of it sticking. However after 4 casts from memory, and 1 from a scroll, it STILL didn't get him. This is after exhausting all of his uses of Call Lightning as well. So at this point Ripper has exhausted his spells, but he still has a SNA III scroll (and other buffs) available to him. These Bats are of little value however without Asmeroviel being visible because his 60' movement in addition to no AoOs against him make him impossible to catch by 40' moving Dire Bats. I am having a quandry at this point because Ripper has run out of ways to beat the Pixie's Invisibility and is now down to his battle buffing routine which involves a lot of item usage. I need to know what xanadu would like me to do because his tactics did not say what should be done if Ripper cannot get Faerie Fire to stick on Asmeroviel....would you like me to buff with scrolls and such or save the money or what?
Caterane 07-24-05, 06:03 PM	In general I believe it is unfair to the gladiator's opponents to have things buried and not clearly listed. Right, Jindl? ;) @Kaigan: You could advertise for your campaign on other boards. The RA adventures never have a problem with getting players into campaigns. Or perhaps the Optiboard has some recruits? They would have to earn credits for 3-4 weeks but you've already waited some time that this wouldn't matter much.
madner 07-24-05, 06:17 PM	Jh316, could you include the positions at the start of the turn? It is hard to follow. I thought it was impossible to trip after the charge, but considering the dices it wouldn't have made much of a difference. :D
Deadly Assassin 07-24-05, 06:26 PM	Hey Xan, why did you have Ormos move counterclockwise instead of clockwise, like I said in my tactics?
xanadu 07-24-05, 07:53 PM	Hey Xan, why did you have Ormos move counterclockwise instead of clockwise, like I said in my tactics? [Bites tongue really hard] *It is a test, I swear the Gladius Gods are testing me* [/Bites tongue really hard] 1] The Gladius arena's inconsistency with the the Cartesian coordinate plane in mathamatics can be confusing. I myself always write an incorrect plotting every fight I pitlord which I fix afterwords. 2] Most of the clocks in today's world are digital. Sometimes it is confusing to know which way toilets flush in the southern hemisphere if you dont see the phenomenon everyday. 3] Hi Zerone ;)
xanadu 07-24-05, 07:56 PM	Cerebus, please tell me he stole the wand after I had no faerie fire attempts left. Edit: Did he take it while I was using it? If not, that would seem to be the place for the sleight of hand skill. Edit Edit: I cant really answer what the Ripper would do without knowing the scenario he is in. If he has 10 arrows left and I can total defense, ride, and get my AC to around 30, then well let him shoot arrows. If I have 10 HPs and he has 100 arrows I guess I lost. If I have enough resources and HPs to use Gryffs to fulfill the role the bats would have performed, I'd say give it a shot but obviously I'd need mutiple gryffs to make my plan work and if I have no spells I dont see that working
Zerone 07-24-05, 08:18 PM	3] Hi Zerone 'ello xanadu :D If you ask me, they should change the positive and negative coordinates to their proper places. I believe they are the same in every country, unlike measurements and other such things, except in the Living Gladius... I post inncorrect coordinates in every fight I've done due to them being backwards. If I am wrong about them being the same in every country, please correct me. :) @ Pitlords (Cat) and Elders: Is fair for xanadu's character to get a tactics addition with an update from his current fight? I understand Cerebus' dilema, but wonder if it is fair to the other combatant, me, if he should get to add more tactics to his fight after he knows some of its happenings? And thanks to Cerebus for puttng up with what sounds like a slow fight... *•. Z
Cerebus13 07-24-05, 08:34 PM	@Zerone & xanadu I'm not asking for a tactics update here, I just want clairification on whether or not Ripper will bother using items if his primary tactic failed. Xanadu unfortunately did not specify what to do if the Pixie was never hit with Faerie Fire, which is required for xanadu's tactics to work properly. So what do I do? Possibly waste items on a hopeless fight (because it is pretty much hopeless at this point), or save inventory and simply ride it out with what little he has left that isn't consumable. At this point in the battle Ripper basically cannot win no matter what he does. Dire Bat summons are too slow to catch the Pixie before their duration runs out, and anything else won't be able to see it without Faerie Fire working. about the Wand: Xanadu, I mentioned twice in this week's FOTW thread asking for clairification on what items are "loosely secured" and which are "well secured". No one replied so Zerone PM'd Caterane and fowarded his answer to me. Caterane's opinion was that a Wand would be considered "loosely secured" and thus vulnerable to the Grab Item manuever using a Disarm action. If people have issues with this they'll have to take it up with the Elders since they haven't voiced any sort of opinion.
Zerone 07-24-05, 08:38 PM	Ok, that's cool Cerebus. I just wanted to make sure, hope you understand. :) Use items or not? I'm fine with that. *•. Z
xanadu 07-24-05, 10:38 PM	I didnt reply to your query because I thought you were referring to my tactics about disarming Asmeroviel. Thus my opinion would be obviously biased. Wands really aren't "worn," the term the SRD uses. An amulet, torc, or a hat might qualify as worn and "poorly secured." Rings, weapons, wands, etc., by nautre have to properly secured due to shape/function else they would inadvertently loose when traveling over a bumpy road. To take something of this nature in this manner is really the place for the slight of hand skill, not the disarm combat ability...otherwise 20th level fighters would be the greatest pickpockets. I see I lost the argument and fight because I chose to keep silent. I think the ruling is wrong and a poor substitute for the sleight of hand skill. Cerebus if the fight is hopeless dont waste any more of your time just end it.
TelinArtho 07-24-05, 11:13 PM	It did approach the southern starting block, maybe you need to re-read the coordinates. The columns don't block line of sight, unless they're big like the middle ones. Actually, now that I've read this over, I realize it is my own mistake - I had meant to go the other way, but I got my rights and lefts mixed. Apologies. And I don't see what you mean by "Jumping all over the Y axis." There was a typo on one turning -5 into 5, but that's the only case. Here's an example of how I don't know where you came up with the coordinates: Kraegin starts at 22, -4. ... Fiendish Hawk (0, 21, 10 feet in the air.) The first line is my starting position, the second line is the starting location of the hawk - which is quite a far distance (much greater than the 30ft for the spell). And are you saying that your summons finding her doesn't mean you did? If that's the case, why did you want me to have the hawk look for her in the first place? Here is an area I need to be more clear - and so this is again my own fault. While my hawk had sighted my opponent, I definitely was too far away to make the best use of my summons. That my hawk rushed off, does mean that the opponent has been located, but it doesn't mean I need to start summoning my second creature. I will clear this up for the next battle though. And yes, running that distance is assuming that there's no obstacles in the way, and the arena isn't exactly clear of obstacles. They had to go through the middle to get to her, unless they divert off to one of the sides. Running doesn't require a straight line of travel necessarily, so I don't see why running would be hindered (the terrain isn't going to be difficult to navigate - the only obstacles are the columns and rocks. If it would be faster to run around the center obstacle than wander through the middle stack - why would they go through the middle stack. Regardless - I again didn't specify this, so it is my own shortcoming. And if you didn't want to cast them from your starting box, you should say where you want to cast them from next time. I think I cover this in this grouping: If I do not see my opponent from my starting position, cast Summon Monster I and summon a Fiendish Hawk. Have it seek her out by starting as close as possible to area to the left, and continuing from there. In the following round, I'll follow it, but try to stay under cover if possible. Don't start a second summons until my opponent is discovered. For this battle, only creatures with a move > 30ft are going to be used. If I find she is engaged with an opponent, I'll use Doom to reduce her fighting capability. However the confusion is whether the opponent is discovered or not and whether I should move to see him. Again, this is a shortcoming on my tactics - and will be rectified for future battles. --------------- All of that being said - what of the other comments that I had made about using the psychic strike on the centipede. First of all, it would've been completely ineffective, but second of all, he wouldn't (as a character) necessarily know not to use it against the centipedes (without the appropriate knowledge skill) - though I am not arguing that at all. However, it would've affected two attacks on the centipede (round 6 - reduced by 3 damage; round 7 - reduced by 8 damage [assuming the second number is the psychic strike]). It would leave the centipede with 3 hps and give the centipede either 1 or 2 attacks (depending on whether Damson was able to hit it on the following round). Also, since Damson would be tied up by the centipede for that much longer - we wouldn't have been able to prepare the last strike against me. Also, if my summoned creatures have been fighting him for this long (and I've been approaching), how can I not see her? Since she hasn't moved from -22,-4, and in round 9, I take a move action to -22,-2 (direct line of sight) - exactly how do I not notice her (no possibility to hide then, if I understand correctly)? Sorry if I sound nitpicky - but I really think that things change on Round 6+7 that could have an effect on the outcome. /d
waywreth 07-25-05, 12:13 AM	Protection vs (good, evil, lawful, neutral) says Enchantment(complusion) and Enchantment(charm) are prevented Hold person is a Enchantment(complusion). In my fight, I was hit with hold person and then coup de grace to die. Is thier away to go back and reenact this battle from that point. seeing my +8 to hit vs. his AC 21 isnt the greatest standards but with his main tatic negated from the pro lawful. I think the battle would be different to say the least. Is this correct or should the fight stand as is? My gladiator was the one who cast the hold person. Personally I've always thought protection to be things like charm person and dominate not hold person - so my guess would be it's ok as is, but I don't know for sure.
Prince FyreDragon 07-25-05, 12:43 AM	Hold Person Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting] Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S, F/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Target: One humanoid creature Duration: 1 round/level (D); see text Saving Throw: Will negates; see text Spell Resistance: Yes The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. (This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.) A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown. Arcane Focus: A small, straight piece of iron. Emphasis mine. If the gladiator casting this is, indeed lawful, then the protection from lawful that the other gladiator was using at the time would have, indeed, defended against a Hold Person spell. Only the pitlord can answer as to whether that was taken into account or not.
Gonbow 07-25-05, 12:48 AM	It was stated by the elders just recently that protection from 'foo' spells do not function on the Hold Person spell. RAW.. I think they do. But that's another matter. The results of the fight are unlikely to be changed.
Cerebus13 07-25-05, 01:03 AM	I didnt reply to your query because I thought you were referring to my tactics about disarming Asmeroviel. Thus my opinion would be obviously biased. Wands really aren't "worn," the term the SRD uses. An amulet, torc, or a hat might qualify as worn and "poorly secured." Rings, weapons, wands, etc., by nautre have to properly secured due to shape/function else they would inadvertently loose when traveling over a bumpy road. To take something of this nature in this manner is really the place for the slight of hand skill, not the disarm combat ability...otherwise 20th level fighters would be the greatest pickpockets. I see I lost the argument and fight because I chose to keep silent. I think the ruling is wrong and a poor substitute for the sleight of hand skill. Cerebus if the fight is hopeless dont waste any more of your time just end it.Well there wasn't much of an argument about this whatsoever this week...I couldn't get a response from anyone on it. If you feel Caterane's ruling on it to be unfair we need to get input from the other Elders as soon as possible, otherwise I'll have to extend the fight another week in order to edit it properly. It is up to you and Zerone on how far you want to carry this. It is a pretty important situation to rule on (20th level fighters being the best pickpockets and all that), so I would like to see some closure for everyone.
Salrantol 07-25-05, 01:40 AM	It was stated by the elders just recently that protection from 'foo' spells do not function on the Hold Person spell. RAW.. I think they do. But that's another matter. The results of the fight are unlikely to be changed. Here's an idea, before you start paraphrasing the "rules as written"...READ THE RULES AS WRITTEN. Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. (This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.) A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown. The subject of hold person has more control over his actions than the caster does, therefore hold person is NOT affected by protection from evil and its ilk (except for the "+2 resistance bonus on saves...against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures" part)
Jindl 07-25-05, 01:48 AM	@Jindl: Sunday is almost over in Germany, I'd like to run the fight in about 9 hours, please send me something. Jindl is such a cool character, he derserves no default tactic. Sorry bud. I've been doped up on antibiotics and medicine and stuff. Got a really bad cold/sinus infection. I'll try to get tactics soon.
Zerone 07-25-05, 02:26 AM	Well there wasn't much of an argument about this whatsoever this week...I couldn't get a response from anyone on it. If you feel Caterane's ruling on it to be unfair we need to get input from the other Elders as soon as possible, otherwise I'll have to extend the fight another week in order to edit it properly. It is up to you and Zerone on how far you want to carry this. It is a pretty important situation to rule on (20th level fighters being the best pickpockets and all that), so I would like to see some closure for everyone. There is no reason for the fight to be extended. The key here, what's Asmeroviel's intention; Trickery or Attack? Sleight of hand is to do something unnoticed and that's why it's a 'Sleight of Hand vs. Spot' check. I am not hiding my intentions, I am plainly taking something away from my opponent that is on his person, which is a Disarm action, called 'Grab'. Please read the Sleight of Hand description and then the Disarm: Grab section and you'll see the difference. One is Skill vs. Skill action with an attempt to be trickey and go unnoticed and the other is a Special Attack Action with the purpose of taking something by force. ;) *•. Z
LLMadCow 07-25-05, 02:43 AM	Well there wasn't much of an argument about this whatsoever this week...I couldn't get a response from anyone on it. If you feel Caterane's ruling on it to be unfair we need to get input from the other Elders as soon as possible, otherwise I'll have to extend the fight another week in order to edit it properly. It is up to you and Zerone on how far you want to carry this. It is a pretty important situation to rule on (20th level fighters being the best pickpockets and all that), so I would like to see some closure for everyone. Disarm is the correct way to handle this situation to handle this and not Sleight of hand. I am very tired and about to go to sleep, otherwise, I'd have vast portions of SRD cut and pasted for your clarification and edification. Anyone feeling up to the cutting and pasting? Skill: Sleight of Hand, Special Attack: Disarm. Compare the two. SoH is for small stuff and especially going UNNOTICED. It makes sense that a 20th level fighter is good at disarming people. Think about it. This is not about picking their pocket and going unnoticed. This is about forcefully removing an item from a person. I assure you that if anyone is going to be good at disarming (i.e. taking items from) people, 20th level fighters should be; however, they will have the tact and grace of a rhino. Short of grappling and disarming, I'll stick with fighter 20 to get the job done. (Or, you know - Arch Mage with Hold Person/Monster) LL
Pittbull 07-25-05, 02:59 AM	Sorry bud. I've been doped up on antibiotics and medicine and stuff. Got a really bad cold/sinus infection. I'll try to get tactics soon. Yep, get well! I'll wait for your tactics!
Vathelokai 07-25-05, 08:14 AM	F%#$!!!!!!!!!!! My network card fried, so now I'm sitting at an internet cafe. I have pitlording issues, and never recieved tactics clarification from Begferdeth. I think I'm comming down with the bronchial pnumonia that my wife has had for the last 2 weeks. I just realized I'm venting in the wrong thread. Anyway, my match may be a day late, while I'm trying to fix my computer and/or putting it on a disk and finding a friends computer. Sorry LLMadCow. I will have to stick to what was origionaly sent as tactics. D#&$ things 30 rnds already. Oh well. I guess it's karmic payback for that 3 rounder that I picked up from RimSoulfang.
Caterane 07-25-05, 08:17 AM	Ok, you get an additional day without penalties.
Vathelokai 07-25-05, 08:29 AM	Thank you, most gracious dictator :rolleyes:
Gonbow 07-25-05, 08:32 AM	Here's an idea, before you start paraphrasing the "rules as written"...READ THE RULES AS WRITTEN. The subject of hold person has more control over his actions than the caster does, therefore hold person is NOT affected by protection from evil and its ilk (except for the "+2 resistance bonus on saves...against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures" part) I was stating my opinion. Now, if you want to argue it.. I believe that Hold Person does fall under the category of lasting mental control. You influence their mind to make them think they cant do anything, that is a form of control and as Hold Person does not have an instantenous duration, it is thus, lasting... But again, I was just stating my opinion, which isn't particularly important, so there is no need to get all huffy ;) And I'm going to retract my earlier statement, this question was asked earlier, but not in fact, answered by any elders >.> Ahem. Egg on my face ;)
Jh316 07-25-05, 08:40 AM	Telin: Right, I've been re-running the fight, but I fell asleep. And the coordinates you listed aren't the starting coordinates. They're the position at the end of the round, after movement. The characters would know about summons in the arena. It's simple to assume, as the character is able to know in advance what the other character has.
Cerebus13 07-25-05, 08:41 AM	Ripper vs. Asmeroviel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6785113&postcount=142) is up. I haven't written a story yet because it took so long to muddle through the battle as it is, but I'll try to get something by Wednesday. After examining the battle again I was able to determine that the issue of Wand disarming was moot in this fight, it would have made no difference had the Wand been taken or not. Asmeroviel took 26 damage from Call Lightning, he has 19 HPs and can heal 14 with Lay on Hands. This means that once Ripper exhausted his store of Call Lightning and Faerie Fires...he had no other means to consistently damage Asmeroviel besides a Produce Flame scroll and his Alchemical throwing weapons. If it is decided before it is too late (i.e. before Wed.) that Disarming an unwielded Wand isn't allowed then I can go back and roll attacks for those weapons as well. It is still unlikely to affect the result much however because the Pixie has SR 17 vs a CL 5 scroll, and once Ripper starts throwing Alchemy bottles the Pixie will keep his distance upping the range penalty greatly. ... Since the "Grab Items" disarm issue influences this fight very little I can voice my opinion on it. It all comes down to what items are classified as "loosely secured" and which are not. I think that anything on the outside of your body that isn't tied down very securely is fair game for this. Necklaces, a hanging belt pouch, a weapon that isn't in a sheath, a bow, etc..etc. These items have to be visible from the outside of the character and cannot be hard to rip off their body (such as a backpack that has straps that completely encircle a person). The term "loosely secured" to me does not entail items held in your clothing or otherwise out of view. It makes sense that you could grab and rip a necklace off someone, but what right minded gladiator is going to let his opponent root around in his clothing looking for a certain potion he wants to "disarm"? That is why they made rules for grabbing items that are not "loosely secured", it requires that you have your opponent pinned in a grapple. If I have someone pinned to the ground it would be a lot easier to dig around in their possessions for something stowed away in a hidden pocket. Everyone else please voice some sort of opinion on this so we can clear up the ambiguity.
Jh316 07-25-05, 09:21 AM	Alright, I re-ran it. Kraegin needs ranged weapons other than a few javilens and a dagger. Especially since he's so slow.
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 09:31 AM	Thank you for rerunning the end. I do have one more question though: Where is Damson getting "concealment" against the centipede? I realize whatever it was from only mattered in round 9 - but if it mattered at all that could have an affect. Also, if Damson is throwing mind blades at me while in melee with the hawk - the hawk should be getting AoOs. thanks /d
Sunwolf 07-25-05, 09:35 AM	So I have a question that pertains to the Ripper vs Asmeroviel fight: Don't you need to cast idenitfy on an item in order to find out the command word to activate it? (Like a wand?) If so would it even be possible to take someone else's wand and use charges from it if you don't know the activation word? Will cross post this to the tavern too.
Cerebus13 07-25-05, 09:44 AM	So I have a question that pertains to the Ripper vs Asmeroviel fight: Don't you need to cast idenitfy on an item in order to find out the command word to activate it? (Like a wand?) If so would it even be possible to take someone else's wand and use charges from it if you don't know the activation word? Will cross post this to the tavern too.Oh, that's something I hadn't considered. It makes sense that you would have to do that unless you heard your opponent using the Wand I guess, but there are no specific rules similar to Read Magic on scrolls and whatnot.
SoulLord 07-25-05, 10:22 AM	Aeryn Valaer (Altaris13) vs Farfinar (NedTheDestroyer): is up fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6783877&postcount=141)
Jh316 07-25-05, 11:11 AM	She was hidden. The centipede knew where she was, but had to get through 50% concealment for her being hidden. And with the AoOs, it wouldn't effect the outcome. The only way that it'd effect the outcome is if the hawk hit a full damage critical for both attacks. I just rolled a d20, and it was an 11, so it the AoOs have no impact on the fight.
LLMadCow 07-25-05, 11:12 AM	I was stating my opinion. Now, if you want to argue it.. I believe that Hold Person does fall under the category of lasting mental control. You influence their mind to make them think they cant do anything, that is a form of control and as Hold Person does not have an instantenous duration, it is thus, lasting... But again, I was just stating my opinion, which isn't particularly important, so there is no need to get all huffy ;) And I'm going to retract my earlier statement, this question was asked earlier, but not in fact, answered by any elders >.> Ahem. Egg on my face ;) Consider the issue officially resolved. Protection From: XXX does not work against Hold Person. End of debate. No more worries. WotC addressed this in a FAQ some time back, and I had to dig it up last night since it was an issue that was bothering people.
LLMadCow 07-25-05, 11:21 AM	Oh, that's something I hadn't considered. It makes sense that you would have to do that unless you heard your opponent using the Wand I guess, but there are no specific rules similar to Read Magic on scrolls and whatnot. If a person picks up a Wand and the Wand has a spell in it that is also on their Spell list (Not their personal list, but their list as a Wizard/Bard/Cleric/Druid/etc) they automatically have the ability to use it. The reason behind this is that wands use the Spell trigger method. Now, just beacuase they have the ability does not mean they have the knowledge. They first have to know what spell is in the wand. Witnessing the use of the wand would qualify in some cases. In the arena, it is fair to say that an opponent has a pretty good idea of what their opponent brings into the fight with them. "Hey, I think this is a wand of fireballs." Points the wand and says "Guano" and a huge fireball rips forth from the wand. "Yup, guess I was right." LL
Zerone 07-25-05, 11:28 AM	"Hey, I think this is a wand of fireballs." Points the wand and says "Guano" and a huge fireball rips forth from the wand. "Yup, guess I was right." LL Hahahahaaa! :rofl: I'll have my fight up later today... *•. Z
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 11:30 AM	@Jh316 - well there's a couple of problems with Damson being hidden from the centipede: 1. The centipede is directly next to her with no object barring line of sight. While she may have been hiding behind the column to begin with, once LOS is established, I don't think she's able to hide any longer. 2. Once she attacks (anyone, especially the centipede - she gets a -20 to her hide roll even if she was able to hide under direct LOS). In round 6, the large centipede in melee is being attacked and is attacking Damson. In this round, the other large centipede has enough to be able to see the fight - so it should get a spot check there with Damson getting a -20 on the roll because she's fighting. If the centipede spots her at this point - she cannot hide without moving out of LOS because of the next point: 3. Once sight has been established, she cannot hide at all because you cannot hide while being observed (even casually).
xanadu 07-25-05, 11:32 AM	Disarming stuff: Proponents please explain: You can’t snatch an item that is well secured unless you have pinned the wearer (see Grapple). Even then, the defender gains a +4 bonus on his roll to resist the attempt. To take something that is well secured means you have to PIN the opponent and even then he gets a +4 bonus. If you are going to sit there and tell me an expensive and important item such as a wand is "poorly secured" I'm going to say :censored: It is likely in a pocket, pouch, or sheath of some-sort - all of which are not "poorly secured" If all this stuff is poorly secured, I want to be able to draw this stuff as a free action. I want my opponents to make reflex saves to hold on to these items when doubling moving since they are flailing in the wind. A necklace may fit into the "poorly secured" because it hangs in clear sight, isn't anchored/fastened to the body by anything, and is supported by a weak chain with a risculously low Break DC of 0. But if a person wears a shirt over the chain, it is no longer secured. If you want to forcibly take something a creature does not have in hand or flailing in the wind, a grapple and pin must be done and then a +4 bonus overcome [which ironically I was told I could not do. Cerebus, I dont have to be the one pinning to take objects]. Cerebus is right in that taking the wand makes no difference in the fight. The Ripper lost because he :censored: and once again rolled poorly when he needed to make the crucial roll during a fight. So I wouldn't alter the fight but the ruling that disarming a wand with a +4 bonus is bunk.
Jh316 07-25-05, 11:46 AM	I don't know what you mean. The ones to the north didn't have a line of sight on her. There were two columns between her and them. Alright, if you're right, I just rolled a 5 for the attack the centipede missed due to concealment.
King Uther 07-25-05, 11:49 AM	@SoulLord Aeryn vs Farfinar fight. I have some questions. Farfinar has total cover in round 3 and 4, yet is considered to see Aeryn and know about where he is at, despite not rolling listen checks or the fact that it is impossible for him to see Aeryn. Maybe you have the wrong coordinates listed. If that is the case, then no big deal there. Also, when Aeryn discovered the approximate location of Farfinar in round 9, he moved closer, just in range to be attacked again even though his tactics stated he wanted to maintain at least 95 feet of distance. Realistically he would have maintained as much distance as possible. Although this may not change the fight at all, since he failed his save and a mind thrust 3 rounds later would still kill him. It did seem as though Aeryn would auto-spot Farfinar in the beginning because Farf ran behind cover that didn't give him cover to Aeryn. That is, of course, barring you meant to put a - when you put a + in the coordinates.
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 11:54 AM	I see what you mean about the round6 - again, I am misreading the coordinates there. I'm not sure why I would deliberately choose to approach from the blind side of the column - but that's a discussion for another day I guess. Regardless, I'm done arguing on this front. I think the battle was lost more on my tactics not being as clear as I imagined to be, so while there may still be "errors" from my point of view, they likely won't be resolved in a way that will ensure my victory. Thanks for pitlording and dealing with my complaining.
Cerebus13 07-25-05, 11:54 AM	If a person picks up a Wand and the Wand has a spell in it that is also on their Spell list (Not their personal list, but their list as a Wizard/Bard/Cleric/Druid/etc) they automatically have the ability to use it. The reason behind this is that wands use the Spell trigger method. Now, just beacuase they have the ability does not mean they have the knowledge. They first have to know what spell is in the wand. Witnessing the use of the wand would qualify in some cases. In the arena, it is fair to say that an opponent has a pretty good idea of what their opponent brings into the fight with them. "Hey, I think this is a wand of fireballs." Points the wand and says "Guano" and a huge fireball rips forth from the wand. "Yup, guess I was right." LLSo basically what you are saying is that if a gladiator has a single wand and his opponent steals it...he will know how to use it immediately? I'm just trying to nail this down for future reference. Also, what if a player has multiple wands and one gets stolen? Does the pickpocket activating the wand have to try once for each type until he finds the correct one, or will they know what it is instantly?
Pittbull 07-25-05, 02:43 PM	@Jindl/Cat: Now I have all the tactics, I'll run the fight tomorrow. So it'll be surely up tuesday evening, having still plenty of time to check it. Jindl, best wishes for getting well soon! Thanks for sending me tactics, it wouldn't be fun to run Jindl without a tactic, he's one of my favorite characters in LG and I'm truly not an expert in druids like you. Ok, I'll spend all my spare-time tomorrow on the fight to be fully concentrated to avoid mistakes.
Altaris13 07-25-05, 02:46 PM	@SoulLord Aeryn vs Farfinar fight. I have some questions. Farfinar has total cover in round 3 and 4, yet is considered to see Aeryn and know about where he is at, despite not rolling listen checks or the fact that it is impossible for him to see Aeryn. Maybe you have the wrong coordinates listed. If that is the case, then no big deal there. Also, when Aeryn discovered the approximate location of Farfinar in round 9, he moved closer, just in range to be attacked again even though his tactics stated he wanted to maintain at least 95 feet of distance. Realistically he would have maintained as much distance as possible. Although this may not change the fight at all, since he failed his save and a mind thrust 3 rounds later would still kill him. It did seem as though Aeryn would auto-spot Farfinar in the beginning because Farf ran behind cover that didn't give him cover to Aeryn. That is, of course, barring you meant to put a - when you put a + in the coordinates. Also, either I'm totally confused by the coordinates or there seems to be a number of movement errors. I'm trying to rerun the fight to see what happened where, and I'm boggled. SoulLord, please post the map so that I can reference what you have versus what I came up with. I should've been able to run circles around Farf and gain some LOS, even partial. I dont see where Aeryn made a single attack. Also, there seems to have been several occasions where Farfinar crossed Aeryn's LOS for an auto-spot, but nothing happened. Again, I'm confused by the coordinates and could be wrong. Can someone please post the effects of Skate? I understand it enhances movement? One thing I do know is that 1) total defense is a standard action and Aeryn only moved 5' steps for the first four rounds. 2) I thought I was pretty clear in that movement (keeping distance) was top priority. 3) SoulLord had Aeryn run in a big circle which got Aeryn zapped. This movement was 100% contrary to the listed tactics. Also, Farf's movement from Round 4 to 5 seems (to me) to have been close to 150 feet or so. That's a heck of a lot of movement (which could be from skate.) But it does cross the LOS where SoulLord placed Aeryn at the end of Round 4 (unless Farf took a different route than I'm thinking of, in which case he went a LOT more than 150 feet.) Lastly (at the moment,) SoulLord kept placing Aeryn behind cover. The only time I mentioned in tactics that I would go to cover is if Farfinar went to partial cover and stayed ranged. I specifically stated that Aeryn would favor range and move in a counter clockwise manner and along the wall. It seems as if SoulLord completely misunderstood my tactics. At least, I hope that is the case and my tactics were not just disregarded.
Altaris13 07-25-05, 03:07 PM	You, another willing creature, or an unattended object can slide along solid ground as if on smooth ice. If you manifest skate on yourself or another creature, the subject of the power retains equilibrium by mental desire alone, allowing her to gracefully skate along the ground, turn, or stop suddenly as desired. The skater’s land speed increases by 15 feet. (This adjustment is treated as an enhancement bonus.) As with any effect that increases speed, this power affects the subject’s maximum jumping distance. OK, never mind about the skate. I didn't realize until a moment ago that the SRD included Psionics. So, Farf's movement base is 35' for the fight. Noted, and this just reinforces my concerns about the amount of movement he made during the fight. Especially during the Round 4 to 5 that I mentioned in my post above.
SoulLord 07-25-05, 03:18 PM	OK, never mind about the skate. I didn't realize until a moment ago that the SRD included Psionics. So, Farf's movement base is 35' for the fight. Noted, and this just reinforces my concerns about the amount of movement he made during the fight. Especially during the Round 4 to 5 that I mentioned in my post above. The map is the same everyone uses (I think), I might have misstyped some of the coordinates but I'll have to check back home. when I ran it farf never double moved more than 60. you wanted to keep your distance but in order to do that you had to know where your opponent was as to keep away from him. When you did not see him but managed to hear him I moved the character away looking for cover as in your tactics to trade shots with him. when you indeed saw him I had the character move away as you indicated instead of attacking or doing something else. Still I'll double check tonight if there are any mistakes that could have affected the outcome of the match. also on auto-spot and hide in the rules of gladius. Sneaking: You are autospotted if you leave cover or concealment, and opponoment has Line of Sight to you and you are more than 1 foot per rank in hide away from a cover. movement round 4: from (2,2) to (0,7) single move first diagonal square costs 5 second costs 10 remaining distance 15 total 30 ok. movement round 5: from (0,7) to (-3,-13) double move 35 movement movement round 6: from (-3,-13) to (-11,-13) double move 40 movement. when farf had a "spare" move left, he readied an action when he couldn't he took a double move.
Sindorin 07-25-05, 03:55 PM	Heeee hehehehehehehee... I am on a serious black dragon kick this week...
Altaris13 07-25-05, 04:00 PM	The map is the same everyone uses (I think), I might have misstyped some of the coordinates but I'll have to check back home. when I ran it farf never double moved more than 60. you wanted to keep your distance but in order to do that you had to know where your opponent was as to keep away from him. When you did not see him but managed to hear him I moved the character away looking for cover as in your tactics to trade shots with him. when you indeed saw him I had the character move away as you indicated instead of attacking or doing something else. Still I'll double check tonight if there are any mistakes that could have affected the outcome of the match. also on auto-spot and hide in the rules of gladius. movement round 4: from (2,2) to (0,7) single move first diagonal square costs 5 second costs 10 remaining distance 15 total 30 ok. movement round 5: from (0,7) to (-3,-13) double move 35 movement movement round 6: from (-3,-13) to (-11,-13) double move 40 movement. when farf had a "spare" move left, he readied an action when he couldn't he took a double move. The coordinates as I mapped them out seem to be different then (thus my request above.) But we'll see after you post your map. Thanks again for Pitlordin, and please know that my comments are intended in the most respectful way possible as I do appreciate you taking time to do this for us. About the auto-spot, which I think will be resolved when we match up your map, but I believe Aeryn had LOS at least once where he is posted as having not seen Farf.
Caterane 07-25-05, 04:04 PM	@Jindl/Cat: Now I have all the tactics, I'll run the fight tomorrow. So it'll be surely up tuesday evening, having still plenty of time to check it. Jindl, best wishes for getting well soon! Thanks for sending me tactics, it wouldn't be fun to run Jindl without a tactic, he's one of my favorite characters in LG and I'm truly not an expert in druids like you. Ok, I'll spend all my spare-time tomorrow on the fight to be fully concentrated to avoid mistakes. My Pitlord is a Jindl Fanboy :tantrum: :D
SoulLord 07-25-05, 04:11 PM	lets see if I can do this without posting the map. the map has coordinates ranging from -30 to +30 each square representing a 5 foot square. so upper left corner is (-30,-30) and bottom right corner is (+30,+30) and at the center we have the 0 coordinate. I treat the first part of the coordinates as (x) horizontal, and the second as (Y) or vertical. so for example in round 4 coordinate (2,2) is two squares above the center and two squares to the right. If you wish we can further review this. my msn is quantumKing<atsymbol> hotmail.com here's the map http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6215035&postcount=27
Pitlords 07-25-05, 04:15 PM	Quest: The Hunt for Kelek's Journal has been cancelled. Jindl -4°, Tellish+2°
Jindl 07-25-05, 04:35 PM	My Pitlord is a Jindl Fanboy :tantrum: :D Nah, he just likes cheering for the underdog.
Jh316 07-25-05, 04:39 PM	Telin: The reason you approached from the blind north side, is because of your specific starting posistion, it would've taken longer to get to the bottom side of it. Sorry, but it happens. I flipped a coin to see if she'd hide in the north or south side.
Meek Head 07-25-05, 07:57 PM	Since I fought 2 people, shouldn't my rewards be against 2 opponents? 900 xp and gp vs. Ormos, win 300 xp and gp vs. Maylee, loss Otherwise to win this fight I have to use twice the expense as a normal fight. Since I am not allowed my full spells and other non-caster classes are at an advantage, we all should at least get xp vs. each other player that we combat. Perhaps like this: Maylee = 2 wins xp and gp Czernobog = 1 win 1 loss xp and gp Ormos = 1 loss xp and gp (because he only fought one enemy) At least this method of xp and gp is fair vs. the number of enemies you've fought against.
Zerone 07-25-05, 10:31 PM	Since I fought 2 people, shouldn't my rewards be against 2 opponents? Maylee = 2 wins xp and gp Czernobog = 1 win 1 loss xp and gp Ormos = 1 loss xp and gp (because he only fought one enemy) At least this method of xp and gp is fair vs. the number of enemies you've fought against. @ Pitlords/Elders: This makes more sense than the way it has been handled. @ Everyone: Zahrat & Sasha vs. Alac & Ambellon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6791851&postcount=144) is up, here are the Characters/Tactics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6791829&postcount=143). *•. Z
Mind Rogue 07-25-05, 10:44 PM	@ Zerone: You should probably post our tactics along with our stats and everything. It makes life easier when people want to complain about not following tactics, although you followed mine to a T and they worked perfectly. I also believe the entry for the Bat Swarm is in error; being composed of diminutive creatures, they should be immune to all weapon damage (as is described in the swarm subtype). Still, I'm amazed that my opponent had a bludgeoning weapon, which is the only thing capable of damaging it as written. Still, it probably was in my opponent's best interest in going straight for one of us rather than trying to beat a swarm that he has little chance of beating. In particular, he should have either tried to knock me, breaking my concentration, or else move somewhere where the swarm will hurt Sasha and me too. Also, you forgot to check to see if Alac could avoid nausea from the bat swarm, although that apparently didn't affect the match any.
Zerone 07-25-05, 10:52 PM	@ Zerone: You should probably post our tactics along with our stats and everything. It makes life easier when people want to complain about not following tactics, although you followed mine to a T and they worked perfectly. You didn't wait long enough for me to finish posting... :P I also believe the entry for the Bat Swarm is in error; being composed of diminutive creatures, they should be immune to all weapon damage (as is described in the swarm subtype). Still, I'm amazed that my opponent had a bludgeoning weapon, which is the only thing capable of damaging it as written. Still, it probably was in my opponent's best interest in going straight for one of us rather than trying to beat a swarm that he has little chance of beating. In particular, he should have either tried to knock me, breaking my concentration, or else move somewhere where the swarm will hurt Sasha and me too. Also, you forgot to check to see if Alac could avoid nausea from the bat swarm, although that apparently didn't affect the match any. The entry is correct, they have the Swarm traits unless otherwise specified, in the case of damaging them, that falls under otherwise specified. He couldn't see anyone due to his Obscuring Mist and walls, and choose to wait within it's cover as per his tactics, fighting it out with the Bat Swarm. Yeah, whoops, I did miss the nausea effect, I'd change it if it'd change the outcome, but as you can see, it'd only make you win faster. *•. Z
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 10:56 PM	I knew that entangle would be a problem... oh well, I'm not real sure about the character anyway...
Mind Rogue 07-25-05, 11:04 PM	You didn't wait long enough for me to finish posting... :P The entry is correct, they have the Swarm traits unless otherwise specified, in the case of damaging them, that falls under otherwise specified. He couldn't see anyone due to his Obscuring Mist and walls, and choose to wait within it's cover as per his tactics, fighting it out with the Bat Swarm. Yeah, whoops, I did miss the nausea effect, I'd change it if it'd change the outcome, but as you can see, it'd only make you win faster. *•. Z Ya, sorry about being a little overzealous on you. May the Light of the Shining One fall warm upon your face...
Kaigan 07-26-05, 12:20 AM	Hey all... Check out my fights: Heindel vs. Xyan Guts vs. Dunewalker Brilf vs. Zhaiyad Please check for errors and such. Thanks. Sorry no story, been really busy.
Huan 07-26-05, 12:27 AM	Belated bare-bones Zubair vs Mienrad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6792654) is up. Short version: Both gladiators can learn something from this fight, but the winner was practically decided after a 50-50 chance at the beginning.
Salrantol 07-26-05, 12:36 AM	Sheesh, I knew taking on an ECL+2 foe would be hard, but I thought Zubair would actually have to TRY to hit Meinrad. I can see why Meinrad has Deflect Arrows, though, now that the average damage he has taken from arrow hits is 31. :rolleyes: My goodness, in the last three weeks, I've had 3 fights decided (against me) in the first round, two because I lost initiative. At least in this fight, the opponent had a higher initiative modifier than me.
Cerebus13 07-26-05, 12:48 AM	Hey all... Check out my fights: Heindel vs. Xyan Guts vs. Dunewalker Brilf vs. Zhaiyad Please check for errors and such. Thanks. Sorry no story, been really busy.Hrm, in hindsight I should have had Guts buff with Force Screen first and Expansion last...or just popped my Invisibility scroll right from the start. Not a big loss anyway because I made out with positive money for once :P.
Malither76 07-26-05, 12:48 AM	Zar Laelithar vs Dagnal Undercut is up Vandelar the Red vs Mugen is up
LLMadCow 07-26-05, 03:23 AM	I am going to officially weigh in on this debate. After reading the fight, all of the text, here is what I have to say about the whole thing: 1st: The attacker gains a +4 bonus when disarming LOOSE OBJECTS such as cloaks, brooches, necklaces, etc. The defender gains a +4 bonus on his roll to resist the attempt at being disarmed of WELL SECURED OBJECTS such as rings, bracelets, shirts, armor, boots, gloves, etc. A +/-0 Bonus applies to ALL OTHER WORN OBJECTS*. *A worn object includes all weapons/ammo weighing more than 1 Lb. and not stored in a bag/sack/pouch. 2nd: Anything that is considered WELL SECURED takes a FULL ROUND ACTION to draw/retrieve. Anyone who has a +1 BAB is allowed to draw a weapon as part of a move action and as far as I know, this has also been extended to wands and staves. So, if anyone wants their wand to be WELL SECURED, go for it, but it must be well noted on their character sheet, and it will take longer to access during fights. 3rd: Fact - We go into battle with full knowledge of our opponents character sheet. Fact - The in-game concept behind this is the ability to watch each others battles and hear/learn about each other through various sources. Conclusion - If you steal a wand from an opponent, it is reasonable to assume that it is one of the wands on his character sheet; furthermore, through the process of elimination a spellcaster who has the ability to cast the spell in the wand could round by round attempt to activate each spell that they are aware the owner posessed. Example1: Julian the Sorcerer manages to disarm Phenyl the Wizard of one of his many wands (1d6 = 6; Fireball 5, Magic Missile 5, Hold Person, Summon Monster II, Dispel Magic and Polymorph). Now, Julian is evading Phenyl like mad while he tries to figure out what wand he stole. Julian, crosses his fingers, points the wand at Phenyl and says "Guano" ... nothing. BAH! Phenyl says - "Good idea", grabs his wand, points and says "Guano" as a fireball shoots forth! Julian thinks to himself "why couldn't he have done that a round earlier?" "What else did the old man have? Oh yeah" Pointing again - "Into the darkness", but still nothing happens. "Nice try Julian - or should I say flambé..? GUANO!" Another fireball rips forth! "Oh my, oh my." Julian is getting desperate. "I think I remember!" Touching the wand to himself - "Butterfly" ... and my example is over with Julian finally correctly guessing which wand he managed to nab and turning himself into some ferocious beast for Phenyl to kill 1 round later. Are you happy? Example2: Brian the Elder (Rogue 20+) manages to Disarm Caterane the Game Master (Bard 20+) of the ONLY WAND HE OWNS (Cat's Grace). BtE immediately knows what the wand is since CtGM only has one. BtE makes his UMD roll: d20 + 23 ranks + 5 Cha + (A whole bunch 'cause this is my story) = success vs DC 20. BtE becomes more graceful. CtGM desides to Inspire Courage .. no. Inspire heroics .. no. Inspire greatness .. no. Sugestion? Sure. :P Silly bard. Yes, if Cat notices this, I am going to pay for it later, but I am sleepy and couldn't resist.
McJarvis 07-26-05, 06:00 AM	My fights are up, but I don't recall what to do with the xp/gp for pittbull&kaigens fight. Too tired to look it up *properly*....I'm sorry :( I'll check back as soon as I wake up...
Huan 07-26-05, 08:43 AM	Anyone who has a +1 BAB is allowed to draw a weapon as part of a move action and as far as I know, this has also been extended to wands and staves. Has this also been extended to potions, powerstones, dorjes, scrolls, etc.?
Pittbull 07-26-05, 09:26 AM	@McJ: The damage of Dissolving Weapon isn't multiplied on a critical, but that won't change the result of the fight. A ridingdog has CR1, therefor: Hagrid gets 1200XP x 1,125=1350XP and 1350 gp. Alex gets 400XP x 0,875=350XP and 350gp.
Sunwolf 07-26-05, 09:46 AM	@Kaigan First, you followed the spirit of Brilf's tactics well. Monks can be nasty opponents to spellcasters. Only a few errors. :) Comments on the Brilf vs Zhaiyad fight: 1) In round 5 Zhaiyad becomes visible with his casting of blindness. He is only using invisibility not greater invisibility 2) Synthesthe negates blindness. So Z shouldn't be getting sneak attacks as he is 'visible' to Brilf 3) Brilf has deflect arrows so he can deflect arrows he is aware of (So unless Z is hiding and sniping that should be happening). 'A hand free at the end of my actions' as noted in my tactics. 4) Brilf threatens even if his hands are full with unarmed strike (he can kick etc). Anyway he should have a hand free so that is not an issue. He should get AOOs on the familar each time it attacks (not on the round he is blinded, though) 5) Last but not least autohypnosis allows one to act at 0 hps without losing hp if the DC20 autohynosis check is made. Instead of rerunning major portions of the fight: Since Z can easily hide and snipe (but possibly not with sneak attack damage), I am willing to grant him the sneak damage that he got and also no deflected arrows. On the other hand, If you have time can you check if Brilf would have knocked out the familiar with AOOs (remember that the AOOs occur before the familiar attacks) in rounds 6-9 and if Brilf passed the autohypnosis roll in round 9 if necessary. I believe that compromise gives a fair shot at winning to both of us without further resource use.
Kaigan 07-26-05, 10:02 AM	@Kaigan First, you followed the spirit of Brilf's tactics well. Monks can be nasty opponents to spellcasters. Only a few errors. :) Comments on the Brilf vs Zhaiyad fight: 1) In round 5 Zhaiyad becomes visible with his casting of blindness. He is only using invisibility not greater invisibility. I know this... I just didn't delete the section from the summary. I did not give him sneak attacks becuase of that. 2) Synthesthe negates blindness. So Z shouldn't be getting sneak attacks as he is 'visible' to Brilf The problem is you didn't tell me which to use, feeling light, or feeling sound... if you had said feeling light, then yes... he would be "visible", but I thought feeling sound would be better as you get the bonus to listen, if you want this change, then I will, however, I doubt this will change the fight. 3) Brilf has deflect arrows so he can deflect arrows he is aware of (So unless Z is hiding and sniping that should be happening). 'A hand free at the end of my actions' as noted in my tactics. The reason why you did not do this, was becuase you were blind and therefore flatfooted. If you were not blind then I would have done this. so See above basically. 4) Brilf threatens even if his hands are full with unarmed strike (he can kick etc). Anyway he should have a hand free so that is not an issue. He should get AOOs on the familar each time it attacks (not on the round he is blinded, though) Since you were blinded on round 5, you would not get AoOs on Hugo, again this would change if you weren't blind, but then Hugo would not be flyby attacking you. 5) Last but not least autohypnosis allows one to act at 0 hps without losing hp if the DC20 autohynosis check is made. True, and you have a 50% chance to make that and I will roll it here... and a 3 will not pass it for you. I decided for you to take the shot as you almost killed him. It was a close fight. [/quote]Instead of rerunning major portions of the fight: Since Z can easily hide and snipe (but possibly not with sneak attack damage), I am willing to grant him the sneak damage that he got and also no deflected arrows. On the other hand, If you have time can you check if Brilf would have knocked out the familiar with AOOs (remember that the AOOs occur before the familiar attacks) in rounds 6-9 and if Brilf passed the autohypnosis roll in round 9 if necessary. I believe that compromise gives a fair shot at winning to both of us without further resource use.[/QUOTE] So as I said, the main mistake was the synesthete, so I will look it over later, and see what happens. Now @McJarvis: How can Hagrid psionic charge me when my wolf is in front of me? I specifically put him there for that reason. Look: Psionic charge only allows for 1 turn of 90 degrees or less in a charge, so how is it possible? I'm just curious to know, how is able to still charge me when I have "cover" infront of me by only making 1 turn of 90 degrees.
Pittbull 07-26-05, 10:10 AM	Look: Psionic charge only allows for 1 turn of 90 degrees or less in a charge, so how is it possible? I'm just curious to know, how is able to still charge me when I have "cover" infront of me by only making 1 turn of 90 degrees. I think, a turn of 90° is enough to negate his cover, but Hagrid has still reach from his expansion.
Sunwolf 07-26-05, 10:17 AM	@Kaigan Thanks for taking a look at the fight. Blindness also gives a 50% miss chance on all attacks so Brilf would not really want that.
SoulLord 07-26-05, 11:03 AM	@Malither. he he funny guy I knew the fight would be tough as it seems he is inmune to most of my spells what surprises me was that he had line of sight to me. congratulations to my opponent luck favored him this time. Also mugen I leave my spellbook at home why would I bring it to the arena? @Kaigan It's over! finally hey wait I have an idea let's rerun the fight :) he he he just kidding. congrats to Xyanthraxia the fly scroll was really good against the poor little fella as a note heindal didn't plan to throw the silenced bullet but rather he wanted to keep it mixed with his other bullets as he charged his opponent.
Vathelokai 07-26-05, 11:33 AM	Ch'ch'ili [Begferdeth] vs Omo-na Santo [LLMadCow] Posted. Warning to all pitlords: If both of the tactics you recieve insist on running away and throwing things from range, demand new tactics. I know I made some mistakes with the hide checks, but for the most part it's kosher. I'm going to sleep now. I am very sick. @Cat: thanks for pushing the deadline. and in reference to your comment last week, it's not just you who gets these fights.
Pitlords 07-26-05, 12:10 PM	Zubair wins and receives 998xp and 2470 gp. (-5%) Meinad loses and receives 1050xp and 910 gp. (+5%) Huan, that didn't seem odd to you did it? There is a cap (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6469706) for losing a fight. Meinrad gains (500 xp and 533 gp +5%) = 525 xp and 560 gp. Both Pittbull and Iced gain 1 day extension because of late tactics and difficult fight, respectively.
Altaris13 07-26-05, 12:37 PM	Here are my tactics as were sent to SoulLord. FW: Tactics for Fight with Farfinar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by Altaris13 Thank you for PitLording SoulLord! Please don't hesitate to give any advice on my build or on my tactics. Also, please note that I should and do not have a Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds. I miscalculated the costs for my armor and had to sacrifice the Cure Moderate. Instead I'll have two extra Cure Light Wounds. I am short 194 gp for the armor, +300gp for the Cure Mod, -100gp for 2 CLW leaves me 6hp. About Farfinar: His starting Strength & Intelligence attributes are reversed (should be 9 & 11.) Also, his attack modifer with the Crossbow should be +5 unless I missed something. +2 Dx, +2 BAB, +1 MW. OK, on to the nitty gritty. This is a very dangerous opponent for me. He could KO me in one shot from a Surged Mindthrust. Fortunately, all of his powers (known & from stones) are Close for range, meaning 40ft (60ft if Surged.) I'll begin with the shortbow in my primary hand and a Shield of Faith potion in my off hand. I will begin on the right most corner of my starting position closest to the wall. My general tactic is to remain at least 105 feet from my opponent at all times (but not more than 115), using double moves if needed. In the event that Farf takes cover, then I'll move to where I can get at him with partial cover while also getting partial cover myself. In this case, I will NOT use Expertise. I will continue staying at least 95 feet from him. If Farf manages to stay hidden from me, then I will remain moving counterclock wise using total defense along the wall until he reveals himself. I'll use 2 points into Combat Expertise for a -2 Atk & a +2 AC (this should give me a 24 AC in general.) I know that I'll be at a -2 to attack for range, but that will still leave me a +2 (so I only need a 14 to hit vs his 20 to hit me with the crossbow, assuming he is beyond 90 feet away, 19 otherwise.) I stress that I will skip any attack in favor of a double move to maintain that distance. Note that this may mean moving towards my opponent as necessary. For the first round, I'll delay until after the opponent goes, I'll use my Shield of Faith Potion +2 and move 30 feet in a direction that will keep the distance from Farfinar. If I should get to 1/2 hp, I'll double or single move to a place behind cover and use a CLW potion ASAP. Then I'll double move to the wall furthest from Farf. I know that with Biofeedback and Vigor, he can outlast my HP if he's hitting me. But I'm hoping that in 20 rolls I confirm at least one crit. If I manage to use all of my arrows, then I'll use a potion of CLW to recover any lost HP (if I've taken more than 5hp.) After that, I'll hang at ninety feet distance until he moves closer. Once within in range of a charge (seventy feet since chain has 10ft reach,) I'll cease using Expertise and charge (for an attack of +8.) During the charge, I'll go for a trip attempt (+8 atk vs touch AC of 16.) He'll have a -6 to resist the trip and I'll have a total of +10. After that, it is all melee. I'll get close and stay close, forcing him to use Concetration not to evoke AoO to manifest and using any AoO for getting up from prone. I'll try to keep him down as much as possible using Trip. If he decides to manifest from the ground, then concentration checks will be called for I think, I um not sure of the CoCo rules about casting/manifesting from prone. Regardless, I'll be getting an extra +4 to melee attack him if he is prone. If it comes to melee, it will be up to luck for me to resist his Mindthrust. I cannot seem to think of any other situations to try and cover for, so I'm done now. And just in case he should offer it, I will accept his surrender. If not, then I am fighting to kill. I apologize in advance for the length. Thank you again for PitLording, it is greatly appreciated! May Hextor guide my aim! And here is the fight in question: Aeryn vs Farfinar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6783877&postcount=141) I have listed out the fight as I have a number of issues with it. For the most part, this loss may've been due to a lack of clarity on my tactics. I thought they were pretty clear though, and would appreciate feedback on them and the way I presented them. I do not mind losing in anyway, as you'll note in my tactics I am aware of how likely a loss was to be. However, I /feel/ as if Farfinar was heavily favored by the PitLord in this instance. I do not mean that as an insult, just stating how I feel. I am not posting this to throw you under the bus SoulLord, but there are a number of discrepancies in your post on the fight. This could be my own misunderstanding of the rules, or a difference in interperation, or simply a misunderstanding on your part SoulLord. I have put the fight into spoiler code so as not to fill up the thread. For those interested (GM's and other Pitlords especially,) please read and comment. Things to consider: Diagonal Movement When moving diagonally on a grid, the first square moved counts as 5 feet of movement, but the second diagonal move counts as 10 feet. This patttern of 5 feet and then 10 feet continues as long as the character moves diagonally, even if some straight movement through squares separates the diagonal moves. Line of Sight Line of sight establishes whether a particular character can see something else represented on the grid. <snip - explanation of LOS> If the object in question is actually another creature, measure LOS from the square thecharacter is in to the square that the creature occupies. <snip part about large creatures> If the LOS is completely blocked, a character can't cast spells or use ranged weapons against the target. If it's partially blocked, such as by the corner of a buyilding, spells work normally but the target's AC increases due to the cover. A creature or character can't move diagonally past a corner. It cost's a Small or Medium creature only 2 squares (10 feet) to move around a corner, while a Large creature hast to use 3 squares (15 feet) of movement to move around a corner. You can defend yourself as a standard action. Farfinar begins at (21,-4.) This is right on top of one of the pillars in the east starting box. Should this have been 21,-3??? Aeryn began at (4,-30.) Round One Farfinar moves 40 feet from (21,-3) to (14,-4.) If his starting position actually was (21,-4) then this would have been even more movement. NOTE: At the end of Farf's movement, Aeryn has LOS to him. (14,-4) to (-4,30) Aeryn moves 35ft from (-4,30) to (0,26) to to hide behind a wall. This is more than his single move can go AND also is NOT along the wall as I dictated in my tactics. Aeyrn drinks a potion of SoF +2. Round Two Farfinar: listen +7(18) dc 5+11 distance 16 sucess! he thinks Aeryn is at (1,-26) farfinar slowly moves toward his opponent going to the first available cover in the center and hides. +10(22), he spots aeryn and readyes an action to attack with endowed Surged mind thrust if his opponent comes in range. LOS for both but aeryn doesnt beat farfinar's hide Aeryn only moves 5 feet from (0,-26) to (-1,-25) and uses Total defense. Aeryn's movement is further away from the wall and only a five foot step, a totally wasted round of potential movement. Farf only has a +7 spot, not +10. SoulLord did not post an ending position for Farf's movement this round. How can you hide when you dont' have LOS? Farf has no class ability that allows him to hide in plain sight. How can Farf even make a spot check when he is behind cover? If he is not behind an obstacle, then how does he hide behind cover? Round Three Farfinar double moves (a max distance of 70 feet w/ skate) to hide in the center (2,2) Aeryn wastes another round of movement. 5 foot step from (-1,-25) to (-2,-25) using Total Defense (again, moving AWAY from the wall.) Round Four Farf moves 30 feet from (2,2) to (0,7.) This is directly towards Aeryn with out any Listen or Spot checks and without any LOS. This puts Farf behing another obstacle, which means spot = impossible. Aeryn is stuck on repeat and wastes a THIRD round of movement. 5 foot step from (-2,-25) to (-3,-23) using Total Defense. Round Five Farf moves 40 feet directly at Aeryn, again without making any Listen/Spot checks, from (0,7) to (-3,-13) Aeryn finally double moves from (-3,-23) to (-13,-26) Aerin knows the general area where farfinar is which is too close to his wishes and decides to move -13,-26 behind cover Though this movement is finally towards the wall, it puts Aeryn in a postion to be cornered. And again this movement is not counter-clockwise (which in this section of the map would mean south and west.) Also, as Aeryn made his listen check that time, he could've moved to negate Farf's cover and make a ranged attack. Instead, Aeryn moved to hide behind a rock where he could be cornered by his opponent??? Round Six Farfinar moves 40feet from (-11,-13) to (-4,-20) and readies his Mindthrust. Aeryn moves 45feet clockwise from (-13,-26) to (-4,-27) to again hide behind cover. This again is directly towards Aeryn without any Listen/Spot checks and with o LOS. Plus, this is more than a single move and Farf could not ready as well. For Aeryn, this is more wasted movement. Aeryn had a listen check succeed last round and should've been going full double moves. Round Seven Farf double moves 55ft from (-11,-13) to (-4,-20) after finally having made a Listen check. Aeryn moves 40 feet from (-4,-27) to (4,-27.) This is another wasted round of potential movement. Round Eight Farfinar moves 35feet from (-4,-20) to (-3,-26) and uses his Mindthrust. Aeryn saves vs Mindthrust and double moves 55feet from (4,-27) to (11,-19) to stand out in the open. First, if Aeryn had used full double moves from previous two rounds, he would not have been in range for the Mindthrust. Distance of (-3,-26) to (4,-27) is 35 feet plus (15ft Rd 6) plus (20ft Rd 7) = 70 feet versus a max range on Farf's Mindthrust of 60 feet Second, this should have changed Aeryn's tactics to the section under melee. (But I understand that to be subject to interpertation.) Round Nine Farf moves 30 feet from (-3,-26) to (3, -26) and hides behind cover & readies his Mindthrust. Aeryn again only moves 55 feet from (11,-19) to (3,-13) to hide behind a rock. Not only is this (again) wasted movement, but it is not even away from the enemy?! Round Ten Farfinar "rushes forward" to an unspecified location and uses Mindthrust on Aeryn. Aeryn fails save and drops. Aeryn cannot act as he is KO'd. This is (again) with out LOS, and without any Listen/Spot checks from Farf?! Round Eleven Beginning of round - Aeryn fails to Stabilize Farf kills Aeryn Aeryn cannot act as he's dead. I would really like to have these issues addressed. All of these errors worked in Farfinar's favor *each* time. As well, I do not see that my tactics were even given fair consideration by the PitLord. @SoulLord, please forgive me in advance if I come across in the above post in a harsh manner as that is not my intention. However, I would really appreciate a 3rd party adjudicator.
McJarvis 07-26-05, 12:39 PM	@Kaigen: I was thinking the charge went something like.... Psionics Charge (http://www.deviantart.com/view/21008653/) That pic isn't exact, as I know Hagrid took up a 10x10 square at that point. There should still be room for him to make the charge, though. I hadn't gotten alot of sleep when I did it, so I'm sorry if it was inappropriate. I'll rerun from the moment of the charge if it turns out to be. I thought your dog routine was genious, actually, and was pretty sure it would work until I saw that Hagrid had psionic charge. @PittBull: Are you sure on dissolving weapon not being applied to crits? I thought spells that inflicted damage via attack rolls always did(like scorching ray)
Pittbull 07-26-05, 01:00 PM	@McJarvis: Please don't forget Hagrid's reach, that makes it impossible to deny the charge in combination with psionic charge. Dissolving Weapon gives additional energy-damage, I always thought that additional damage is never multiplied.
Mind Rogue 07-26-05, 01:07 PM	@PittBull: Are you sure on dissolving weapon not being applied to crits? I thought spells that inflicted damage via attack rolls always did(like scorching ray) Spells that are the only source of damage, such as Scorching Ray, Shocking Grasp, or Dissolving Touch are multiplied by a critical. For spells that simply add to the damage dealt, such as Flame Arrow or Dissolving Weapon, the base weapon damage is multiplied, but the spell's damage is not. This also means that if you have improved unarmed strike and you attack with Shocking Grasp or other melee spell, it is the unarmed strike damage that is multiplied, and not the added electrical damage. Also, by this rule, you should feasibly be allowed to coup de grace with a Cure Spell to heal twice the normal amount of damage.
SoulLord 07-26-05, 01:34 PM	@SoulLord, please forgive me in advance if I come across in the above post in a harsh manner as that is not my intention. However, I would really appreciate a 3rd party adjudicator. none taken indeed I did not charge extra for the movement through corners as I did not remember that rule. but it was done for both gladiators. and in the end it means a 5 feet extra movement which I might add your opponent is able to do his speed is 35 and a double move is 70. on LOS your opponent is not automatically spotted when he is hiding if he finishes with cover as the rocks or pillars provided. you did get your reactive spot check every round that you fad LOS to him. on movement as a standard action for full defense I don't think it would have changed anything besides the starting location of where the battle started. just my thoughts
Jindl 07-26-05, 02:07 PM	@Pittbull- Just a couple of notes: Potions and Tattoos are not shared by the share spells ability. Eule should have died earlier. I'm not sure I agree with JotHF surrendering while he still has sleet storm, call lightning, and produce flames available. All of those attacks have more than enough range to get Uhme with readied attacks when he leaves cover. Sleet Storm should be first, since it blinds/reduces movement, and it creates the necessary weather in the area to boost call lightning to 3d10 damage (more than enough to get past any elemental resistances). And of course there is always summoned hippogriphs (SM3 = 1d3), which using a fly speed of 100 should be able to at least base Uhme every round (and enjoy AoO's). Would you consider finishing the fight using JotHF's spells and no resources? I know my sucky, brief, really doped up on cold medicine tactics didn't really go into how to use my spells, but I feel kinda stupid having JotHF surrender when he has a 4 to 1 hp advantage and has only cast 1 spell. -Jindl PS: I'm feeling much better now. Thanks for your concern :)
Gonbow 07-26-05, 02:21 PM	Also, by this rule, you should feasibly be allowed to coup de grace with a Cure Spell to heal twice the normal amount of damage. I've heard of people trying to sneak-attack with wands of cure light wounds... Thankfully, they always get shot down :P
michael_noah 07-26-05, 02:32 PM	I'm unsure about this. Should Uhle need to make a concentration check to cast Dim-Door while in the effects of an Ice Storm? It is continuous damage, though it only lasts one round. If not from the damage taken (DC 24), should he need to make a concentration check as though distracted by a non-damaging (specifically a weather-like) spell (DC 21)? Also, you could never even come close to critting with a cure spell to heal damage, as only damage is multiplied, not curing. You could crit something that was hurt by positive energy, though (good luck finding something not immune to criticals, though).
Caterane 07-26-05, 03:08 PM	@Michael Noah: I think Uhme would leave the area first before casting in the storm. But thanks for your interest in my characters ;) :thinks: @Jindl: With resist lightning and fire up, and protection from x, there's no way JotH can damage me. Also, your tactics don't say anything like ready action with powercombos like sleet storm followed by a call lightning. Infact, they are pretty clear on what you want to do: Enter riding Dozen, with Nox present also, both at the front of the box. Ride forward, moving towards Uhme when he is spotted and cast ice storm. Follow up with a scroll: ice storm. If he is still up, press the attack (using normal buff w/ barkskin/bears/produceflame + wildshape -dienonychus tactics). Entangle him if he is using the phantasmal steed. Try to save resources. -Jindl It's easy to come up with counters now that you can see the fight.
Pittbull 07-26-05, 03:08 PM	I'm not sure I agree with JotHF surrendering while he still has sleet storm, call lightning, and produce flames available. All of those attacks have more than enough range to get Uhme with readied attacks when he leaves cover. Sleet Storm should be first, since it blinds/reduces movement, and it creates the necessary weather in the area to boost call lightning to 3d10 damage (more than enough to get past any elemental resistances). And of course there is always summoned hippogriphs (SM3 = 1d3), which using a fly speed of 100 should be able to at least base Uhme every round (and enjoy AoO's). Would you consider finishing the fight using JotHF's spells and no resources? I will change the fight. By the way is michael_noah right? A concetration-check for weatherconditions (DC21)? I'll be back soon!
michael_noah 07-26-05, 03:38 PM	I will change the fight. By the way is michael_noah right? A concetration-check for weatherconditions (DC21)? I'll be back soon! @Cat: Ah, I didn't pay attention to fly cast right away. Guess you could fly out first. I was thinking you still moved only 30 and could not get out at half speed. Also, I think I just happen to jump on rule things for your characters because they are in the most interesting fights. @Pittbull: Weather conditions caused by spells cause concentration checks at the save DC of the spell, or, if the spell has no save, what it would be if it did have a save.
Caterane 07-26-05, 03:46 PM	Yes, I've seen you a couple of times around here and you have a very good grasp of the rules (incl many coco rules). Why not post a character here? I am sure your characters would also be the reason for the most interesting fights ;)
King Uther 07-26-05, 03:51 PM	@Altaris One thing you have to realize, is that even a re-run may not change a thing. You rolled a 7 on your second will save, and that roll will stand no matter what. That means if he can fire mindthrust at you twice, you lose guaranteed. I feel that SoulLord didn't mean to put you into that position. Looking at the coordinates, it just looked like in some rounds a + and a - were switched. As far as movement goes, you should be granted those three moves. But that is SouLord's discretion. Farf did move too far to ready an action in round 6, but it did not affect the fight. If you had readied actions to fire when presented LOS, then things would go differently. Or if you had not specified to go into melee only when you ran out of arrows. But as is, luck did not favor you so it is likely that you will still lose.
King Uther 07-26-05, 03:53 PM	@michael_noah I'd like you to make a character as well. You and Purkake post here sometimes, and seem to have a good insight on things. Consider this a cordial invite.
michael_noah 07-26-05, 03:53 PM	I'm working on something... :-) Though there are some things about CoCo I don't particularly like, most notably psionics, I might finally convince myself to join in. For the most part, I find it the best place on the web to come for down to earth interpretations of the strange ambiguous rules that DnD has. I'm very strongly considering pitlording as well. Is this place still short on that front?
Jindl 07-26-05, 03:54 PM	@Jindl: With resist lightning and fire up, and protection from x, there's no way JotH can damage me. Also, your tactics don't say anything like ready action with powercombos like sleet storm followed by a call lightning. Infact, they are pretty clear on what you want to do: The use of the spells I posted above are all things that JotHF has done frequently in past fights. Nothing new. And as you know it is hard to write contingencies for every polymorph form. Since polymorph is one of the few ways Uhme could out manuever an airwalking deinonychus-form JotHF who is trying to melee, I think this would call for some adaption to use ranged attacks, don't you? As for resist lightning and resist fire, you have not yet cast either. Since you don't have resist energy memorized, I can only assume that you cast resist cold from a scroll: resist energy, of which you have two. That only leaves you with one source of resist energy, your other scroll, which is CL3 and only capable of granting resistance 10 to one energy type. Both call lightning and produce flame are capable of dealing more than 10 damage per hit, and you can only defend against 1. And you have 15 hp. Your assumption of an automatic victory is a bit hasty, I think. -Jindl
Sindorin 07-26-05, 04:01 PM	I'm working on something... :-) Though there are some things about CoCo I don't particularly like, most notably psionics, I might finally convince myself to join in. For the most part, I find it the best place on the web to come for down to earth interpretations of the strange ambiguous rules that DnD has. I'm very strongly considering pitlording as well. Is this place still short on that front? If you start pitlording I might just consider having characters in the arena again.
Pittbull 07-26-05, 04:05 PM	@Michael: Ok then Uhme needs to make concentration-check with DC21? @Jindl: Cat pointed out, that adjusting the tactics with sleet-storm, after you read the fight, wouldn't be fair. I must admit that he is right about that, first I should follow, your written tactic: If he is still up, press the attack (using normal buff w/ barkskin/bears/produceflame + wildshape -dienonychus tactics). Entangle him if he is using the phantasmal steed. It'll take 4 rounds to have all buffs up. In this time he can buff too, or attack Jindl with MMs. Oh man, Jindl is such a difficult character to run...... Do you want me to follow your main tactic first and then improvise, if it doesn't work? Cat sent me a tactic that covers pretty much! Resist energy (electricity) vs Call Lightning, Protection from X vs the Hippogriffs and Resist Energy (Fire) vs Produce Flame,.... And last but not least he's has alot of expendable item (MM-scrolls) to provide enough fire-power if he runs out of his spell-levels.
Altaris13 07-26-05, 04:06 PM	@Altaris One thing you have to realize, is that even a re-run may not change a thing. You rolled a 7 on your second will save, and that roll will stand no matter what. If you had readied actions to fire when presented LOS, then things would go differently. Or if you had not specified to go into melee only when you ran out of arrows. But as is, luck did not favor you so it is likely that you will still lose. I didn't realize that rolls would stand. Your second point... That is why I said "open to interpertation." Well, at the least I hope SoulLord learned something about movement. I just think it sucks that I lost due to a lack of knowledge rather than luck or build. Honestly, the first Will Save that was made was pure luck! :D
michael_noah 07-26-05, 04:07 PM	@Michael: Ok then Uhme needs to make concentration-check with DC21? He would, except as he pointed out, he can fly out of the area before DDing.
Pittbull 07-26-05, 04:22 PM	Thanks, now I understand, of course he flies out before!
Jindl 07-26-05, 04:48 PM	@Michael: Ok then Uhme needs to make concentration-check with DC21? @Jindl: Cat pointed out, that adjusting the tactics with sleet-storm, after you read the fight, wouldn't be fair. I must admit that he is right about that, first I should follow, your written tactic: If he is still up, press the attack (using normal buff w/ barkskin/bears/produceflame + wildshape -dienonychus tactics). Entangle him if he is using the phantasmal steed. It'll take 4 rounds to have all buffs up. In this time he can buff too, or attack Jindl with MMs. Oh man, Jindl is such a difficult character to run...... Do you want me to follow your main tactic first and then improvise, if it doesn't work? Cat sent me a tactic that covers pretty much! Resist energy (electricity) vs Call Lightning, Protection from X vs the Hippogriffs and Resist Energy (Fire) vs Produce Flame,.... And last but not least he's has alot of expendable item (MM-scrolls) to provide enough fire-power if he runs out of his spell-levels. Like I said, I was sick and wrote brief tactics. But it is obvious that once Uhme polymorphs, that JotHF cannot engage him in melee. So I doubt he would buff for melee. It seems to make much more since that because tactics have fallen apart, JotHF would improvise ranged attacks. Cat talks all the time about not playing gladiators like idiots, so I think it is appropriate that since melee is obviously impossible, JotHF wouldn't act like an idiot. He would use ranged attacks. I mention sleet storm because it is a petty good ranged attack (it blocks LOS and forces concentration checks, possibly causing spell failure). I don't really care what Cat believes his tactics will protect him from, it won't work the way he thinks. He lacks the resources to protect against both fire and electricity, because he used one of his two sources of resist energy to protect against cold. He only has 1 left. So if he resists fire, the JotHF will get him with call lightning. And if he resists electricity, he will die from produce flame. Remember, Uhme didn't memorize resist energy. He only has 2 scrolls of it, both at CL3, and one of those was already used to resist cold. As for Uhme's MM attacks, JotHF can easily protect himself with obscurring mist (can't see me, can't target me), while still locating Uhme with listen for lightning strikes. Or just ready ranged attacks to disrupt (a pretty common tactic). Note that anytime Uhme wants to cast a scroll, he has to draw it and cast it. This may mean that he can only 5 ft step that round. I don't understand what has convinced you that Uhme is going to win? He's only got 15 hps and virtually no methods of healing? Compared to JotHF's approximately 70+ hp with a simple wildshape (which makes sense considering that JotHF won't be using any resources anyway). 2 hits from produce flame or 2 lightning strikes and he is likely dead. And I don't think I'm asking for that much improvisation, considering that melee is obviously impossible. -Jindl
Meek Head 07-26-05, 04:54 PM	Also mugen I leave my spellbook at home why would I bring it to the arena? You still have to have it listed on your character sheet, I'd list it under a title like, Equipment at Home. That way we see where your money has been spent, and that it has been spent.
Caterane 07-26-05, 04:57 PM	Yep and all that should have gone into your tactics, not in the FotW thread after the fight is up. With your 2 lines of tactics you can't expect much. I'm sorry that you were ill but that isn't my doing and you had 2 weeks time. It took me hours to write my tactics. Perhaps I should also just write 2 sentences and device tactics once the fight is up LOL
Pittbull 07-26-05, 05:16 PM	@Jindl: I must admit that Cat is right, it would unfair if I adjust Jindl's tactic so far. So there are two ways to come out of this dilemma: (1) Jindl will take the 4 rounds buffing as you wrote in your tactic and then try to attack Uhme, if this isn't succesfull, I'll adjust the tactic as a neutral pitlord. (2) We keep this fight as it is and do a rematch next pairings, I'll volunteer for pitlord and you both send me new tactics. This way the fight will be not delayed and everybody gets XP and gp this week.
Caterane 07-26-05, 05:22 PM	Oh you said rematch. Well, that'd be ok I guess.
TelinArtho 07-26-05, 05:24 PM	Calm down Cat - if you read what Pit said in option 2 was to "keep the fight as it is" (so the two of you can get gold/xp) and rematch next week with new tactics. You wouldn't be losing a week, but you would be fighting him again.
Jindl 07-26-05, 05:27 PM	Screw it, I'll take the loss. Apparently you think JotHF is enough of an idiot to buff and try and run down a creature that flies at 200. Right. You know, I'm really getting tired of the CoCo as a whole. The last 5 arena matches I've had either ended unfairly without the pitlord correcting major errors, were cancelled because of impromptu rules, or were garbarge monster fights. I think I'll take a break for a while. A long while.
SoulLord 07-26-05, 05:31 PM	You still have to have it listed on your character sheet, I'd list it under a title like, Equipment at Home. That way we see where your money has been spent, and that it has been spent. Fair enough I listed it in the at home section but wizards don't have to pay for their spellbooks. Spellbooks A wizard must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all wizards can prepare from memory. A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook. At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own.
Pittbull 07-26-05, 05:44 PM	Screw it, I'll take the loss. Apparently you think JotHF is enough of an idiot to buff and try and run down a creature that flies at 200. Right. You know, I'm really getting tired of the CoCo as a whole. The last 5 arena matches I've had either ended unfairly without the pitlord correcting major errors, were cancelled because of impromptu rules, or were garbarge monster fights. I think I'll take a break for a while. A long while. Please, Jindl! I gave you two options to choose. Why is Jindl an idiot, if he buffs. You wrote me the tactic like this and so he firstly would follow this way. If he realizes in his buffing period that Uhme attacks with one MM after another, he surely does something to avoid being attacked. I won't play him as a fool. My question was, if I should follow the tactic you wrote and then adjust the fight to whatever happens or shall we keep it as it is and do a rematch with new tactics, no more no less. I really didn't want to offend you.
Meek Head 07-26-05, 06:02 PM	Fair enough I listed it in the at home section but wizards don't have to pay for their spellbooks. Spellbooks A wizard must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all wizards can prepare from memory. A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook. At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own. One must remember to read the entire sentence in a D&D rule (as they are most confusing) to find its true meaning. The important word in this sentence is "containing", which you so cleverly ommited from your highlighted section, ;) :D , as it refers to what your spellbook has for spells when you begin play as a 1st level character, not that you receive 15 free gp.
SoulLord 07-26-05, 06:27 PM	One must remember to read the entire sentence in a D&D rule (as they are most confusing) to find its true meaning. The important word in this sentence is "containing", which you so cleverly ommited from your highlighted section, ;) :D , as it refers to what your spellbook has for spells when you begin play as a 1st level character, not that you receive 15 free gp. mmmmm interesting I read the same sentence as free spellbook with free spells but to avoid further debate I shall pay the 15 gp for the spellbook. even though im not convinced :) on other notes: Malither76 I dont want the fight to be rerun but I would like to know how mulen spotted vandelar aren't there between them columns rising up to the ceiling between them which effectively block LOS?? or am I using a map different than the other pitlords? http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6215035&postcount=27
King Uther 07-27-05, 12:16 AM	@Jindl PLease don't take a break. I really like your insights and I like the way you prepare and write tactics. You are someone I respect as a DnD player and as such you are someone I await to fight in combat. It would be sad to see you go. It is your decision, but please think it over when you feel a little better.
Begferdeth 07-27-05, 01:37 AM	Just a quick comment about my fight... My ranged attacks are at +6. My darkwood crossbow is masterwork. None of the attacks got close enough for the extra +1 to make the difference, so dont redo the fight or anything, but just so you know. And I guess next week, Ill have to put a note in my tactics to pick up the pace when I get yellow flags over trying to regain focus. :(
Vathelokai 07-27-05, 10:23 PM	That was me being sleep deprived. I forgot the +1size modifier. For some reason (probably a house rule) I thought it only applied to melee attacks. Sorry again about the time out.