Post/Author/DateTime	Post
McJarvis 04-23-08, 02:21 PM	Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. News and Whatnot New Rulings - Courtroom The following rulings were voted for by MWB, Zevox, Telin, crazy, and Erithmu. Sauro voted against. You can not find invisible creatures merely by moving through thier square- they can merely opt to let you pass by. The only exception is if you end movement in the same square as an invisible creature- you will then effectively know an invisible creature was there because you will be "moved" to the last legal square you occupied. A Shadowdancer/Assassin's HiPS does not require concealment or cover to use- it merely requires a shadow nearby that is not their own. This shadow does not have to be visible to the observer or even grant any sort of concealment itself. The Council Decisions/Revelations Current Topics Courtroom - Sauro wishes an elder decision on using an intelligent cohort as a mount. [and what tricks/training it requires] Council - There is a discussion on how quickly you should be able to aquire ethereal equipment. Courtroom- The rules for Ride and Handle Animal are under discussion. These are topics that have died down but had nothing come of them. Personally? I blame the terrorists. Council - Mechanics of the "Awaken" spell is currently being discussed in the council. Courtroom- Good grief, we're talking about the Bag of Tricks again. Sooner or later Lelenia will level enough that we can put these discussions behind us. :-) Council- Delay rules are still being discussed. Check out the Courtroom and Council to join in all the fun! Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. New idea: let's not insult anyone, ok? :) Pairings GM MindWandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
whitebaron 04-23-08, 02:43 PM	@mwb: if you need it dire, you can give me a fight as well... @mcj: looks like thorell vs. verren - plains plains plains pls! :)
McJarvis 04-23-08, 02:55 PM	@mcj: looks like thorell vs. verren - plains plains plains pls! :) Heh. I'm not really sure what map I want on that one. Verran is a tough cookie for Thorell, though. Psionics + see invis = eep :-O edit- maybe I'll get lucky and it will be in pitch black
whitebaron 04-23-08, 03:27 PM	edit- maybe I'll get lucky and it will be in pitch black what? will telin do the pairings? -- btw: 20 pp and 16 sls headed your way. ;) The dual pairings with Lelenia helped keeping the costs low... never thought i'd see her get to ecl8 with those stats...
McJarvis 04-23-08, 03:48 PM	what? will telin do the pairings? -- btw: 20 pp and 16 sls headed your way. ;) The dual pairings with Lelenia helped keeping the costs low... never thought i'd see her get to ecl8 with those stats... Yeah...it's definately not how I planned on bursting into ECL7. Like I said- the map and lighting will be a huge deal for this fight. edit- ...and I guess whether we get grouped together for an interleague with the spare ECL9 char would matter alot too.
whitebaron 04-23-08, 03:58 PM	Yeah...it's definately not how I planned on bursting into ECL7. Like I said- the map and lighting will be a huge deal for this fight. well, we've still got that interleague option hanging over our head.... # Lelenia Rovan (whitebaron) [Power: 9017 (1594); 11 won, 3 lost] [Special Power] [Great Renown] <- nice :)
MindWandererB 04-23-08, 04:04 PM	Pairings done. You'll notice that I scrapped our old playtest fights due to lack of interest and probable lack of relevance. We'll start those back up again once we have 4e under control. But meanwhile, we have a 4e playtest fight for your pleasure. Credits: CrazyArtificer Q2 dulsi F1 Huan F1 lonewolf F3 McJarvis F3 TelinArtho F3 A-3 templer10 F2 Turanson F1 Yitzi F2 MindWandererB A2 A-2
Turanson 04-23-08, 04:06 PM	Hey MWB I have Mineau active for this week but it looks like you forgot him, any chance you could remember him ? :D
lonewolf 04-23-08, 04:17 PM	doublepost
lonewolf 04-23-08, 04:18 PM	Monster Info for Besthirah: 3 large bipeds
MindWandererB 04-23-08, 04:21 PM	Hey MWB I have Mineau active for this week but it looks like you forgot him, any chance you could remember him ? :D So I did. Max Ribbleton (lonewolf) vs. Mineau Guwango (Turanson) : Yitzi [Cavern]
templer10 04-23-08, 04:23 PM	MWB - i set lord lorian to Active - i think you forgot him.
whitebaron 04-23-08, 04:25 PM	NOT Ready for (april 23) ;)
templer10 04-23-08, 04:26 PM	OK - i meant Ready - forgot to remove the Not - MWB - would you mind pairing him anyway?
whitebaron 04-23-08, 04:41 PM	Psionics + see invis = eep :-O on second look - you don't even have an invisibility option left, at least not for this fight... ;)
Callix 04-23-08, 04:51 PM	I probably should've PMed this, but I'm fine to pitlord a 3.5 fight as well as the playtest. Since pairings are fine, it's just for future reference.
lonewolf 04-23-08, 04:54 PM	tactics for max are away. A bit of a deja vu from last week. Same enemy, same pitlord, only a slightly different map. Well, I hope for the same result! :P
MindWandererB 04-23-08, 05:10 PM	OK - i meant Ready - forgot to remove the Not - MWB - would you mind pairing him anyway? Err... I don't think I can see doing that. Pairings are up, and I generally only do this for newcomers or when it's my mistake.
templer10 04-23-08, 05:19 PM	Err... I don't think I can see doing that. Pairings are up, and I generally only do this for newcomers or when it's my mistake. hmm- i think it's pretty obvios i meant to be paired this week - the date is right and i did edit it today but i suppose it's up to you...
templer10 04-23-08, 05:34 PM	MWB - i think you also forgot the dark one's full activity.
MindWandererB 04-23-08, 05:53 PM	MWB - i think you also forgot the dark one's full activity. I think you forgot that the Dark One is in prison.
templer10 04-23-08, 05:59 PM	I think you forgot that the Dark One is in prison. Err - Why? i pmed you and his violation was removed a week ago? EDIT - i see telin didnt do prison post this week, but since the violation was fixed and edited a while ago dark one shouldnt suffer for it, Althrough it does mean it's week one of his crafting - not 2.
Stormwind 04-23-08, 06:29 PM	@MWB: I had Varjo set to ready for a quest starting this week ... just wondering if you missed it or if Huan wasn't ready to start yet. No problems either way ... just want to make sure of the situation.
MindWandererB 04-23-08, 06:48 PM	Err - Why? i pmed you and his violation was removed a week ago? EDIT - i see telin didnt do prison post this week, but since the violation was fixed and edited a while ago dark one shouldnt suffer for it, Althrough it does mean it's week one of his crafting - not 2.Okay... since it's Telin's fault and not yours, I'll put it up starting this week. @MWB: I had Varjo set to ready for a quest starting this week ... just wondering if you missed it or if Huan wasn't ready to start yet. No problems either way ... just want to make sure of the situation.No, just missed it somehow. But I do lack the quest goal. I'll put down "RP."
TelinArtho 04-23-08, 06:50 PM	Sorry about that t10 - I'm on vacation this week (didn't go anywhere - but spending a lot more time outdoors and away from computers). I meant to do a prison update the other day but got called away before I got the chance. Anyway - my fault.
Stormwind 04-24-08, 02:22 AM	No, just missed it somehow. But I do lack the quest goal. I'll put down "RP." The quest goal is to obtain an intelligent weapon (although I'm still waiting for 'Rith to approve it in the Blackmarket ... I figured I'll get the quest out of the way already)
TelinArtho 04-24-08, 09:14 AM	Flutterthought's monster info is up. Looks like my tactics will be later than usual - but probably still before Friday (some time later today).
SauroGrenom 04-24-08, 11:45 AM	The quest goal is to obtain an intelligent weapon (although I'm still waiting for 'Rith to approve it in the Blackmarket ... I figured I'll get the quest out of the way already) I was chatting with Rith last night, and he was having trouble with accessing the boards using his internet browser for some reason. He said that whenever he opened any thread, it came up white. So be patient, he'll get back to you in the blackmarket as soon as he works out all that stuff.
McJarvis 04-24-08, 03:13 PM	I was chatting with Rith last night, and he was having trouble with accessing the boards using his internet browser for some reason. He said that whenever he opened any thread, it came up white. So be patient, he'll get back to you in the blackmarket as soon as he works out all that stuff. I've been having the same problem. I tried reducing posts per page down to 10 and it seemed to help a little bit.
CrazyArtificer 04-24-08, 03:16 PM	Had the same problem. I also noticed that reducing age of threads shown to 2 weeks helps a bit.
Turanson 04-24-08, 04:01 PM	I'll try that :)
Sjiggie 04-24-08, 05:07 PM	Almost everybody seems to have that problem both here and at Real Adventurers. Seems to be a Gleemax glitch
JackSnape 04-24-08, 05:33 PM	I was chatting with Rith last night, and he was having trouble with accessing the boards using his internet browser for some reason. He said that whenever he opened any thread, it came up white. So be patient, he'll get back to you in the blackmarket as soon as he works out all that stuff. Try refreshing when it does that sometimes that helps too, I've been getting it a lot in the past 2 or 3 days. Headup dulsi, I sent you tactics. Let me know if anything doesn't look kosher.
Yitzi 04-24-08, 08:33 PM	Had the same problem. I also noticed that reducing age of threads shown to 2 weeks helps a bit. Ditto. Probably related to how some old pages in battles don't work right. Someone should probably inform a WizO.
MindWandererB 04-25-08, 03:27 AM	Ditto. Probably related to how some old pages in battles don't work right. Someone should probably inform a WizO.They know. Believe me, I've had poor WizO_Chaos/Bussy working pretty hard to get that fixed. It's a stumper, though. I'll try again in a few months when the new administration gets its act together a bit more.Flutterthought's monster info is up.Tactics for that tomorrow, possibly a smidge late. You should have them for Gak now, though. @lonewolf: Tactics sent for Besthirah as well.
whitebaron 04-25-08, 06:11 AM	@lonewolf: tactics for verren sent. (burn dwarfie burn) @callix: tactics for corrin are out, too. pretty small tactics, but still some contingencies, as always :) @t10: tactics for WW might still take a while, sorry.
Yitzi 04-25-08, 07:52 AM	Max vs. Mineau (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15704999&postcount=1948)is up.
lonewolf 04-25-08, 08:05 AM	Max vs. Mineau (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15704999&postcount=1948)is up. Thanks for running. You missed the constructs trip ability in round 2, but no need to fix this unless something else also needs to be changed.
Turanson 04-25-08, 08:06 AM	Thanks for the run I got to find a way to kill those Astral Construct
whitebaron 04-25-08, 08:07 AM	rewards seem a bit odd - why does mineau get 774.6 gp instead of 666?
lonewolf 04-25-08, 08:10 AM	rewards seem a bit odd - why does mineau get 774.6 gp instead of 666? thats including the profession income.
whitebaron 04-25-08, 08:11 AM	thats including the profession income. ah ok... bit odd to have it included like that but not mentioned... still, .6 is not the official value... but i'll bump something into the council about that anyway.
Turanson 04-25-08, 08:26 AM	oh one thing you missed the fireball in the rewards
McJarvis 04-25-08, 10:43 AM	tactics for thorell are out.
whitebaron 04-25-08, 11:39 AM	tactics for thorell are out. they should be easy written. "i resign" ;)
McJarvis 04-25-08, 11:41 AM	hmm.. *clever snipping* i resign neat! That really takes alot of stress off my weekend :)
dulsi 04-25-08, 11:44 AM	"No help from the wizard this time druid. I'll crush you and your little dog, too!" curses Orgauth. Tactics for Orgauth has been sent. Hopefully Orgauth gets lucky with this fight. I've received tactics for my fight so I'll run it when I get a chance (probably tommorow or monday).
TelinArtho 04-25-08, 12:39 PM	I have sent tactics for Darrgon and Vallgar. Looks like tactics for Dentik and Sir Valkin will be later today - past the deadline. Forum issues last night and a friend needing to get bailed out of jail derailed me last night....
whitebaron 04-25-08, 01:46 PM	I have sent tactics for Darrgon and Vallgar. Looks like tactics for Dentik and Sir Valkin will be later today - past the deadline. Forum issues last night and a friend needing to get bailed out of jail derailed me last night.... tactics for WW will be out soon - and i believe you can take as much time as you need after such a day...
TelinArtho 04-25-08, 07:25 PM	Well despite my day actually getting worse - I have finished my tactics and sent them out. No one should expect much activity from me in the next couple of days. @Erithmu and Vath - just run with Bulgar accordingly. @t10 and lonewolf - I will get to what I can when I can. @my fights this week - expect them on Monday/Tuesday. If someone wants to take one of my fights - that would be a help to me for sure. If not - I will endeavor to finish them regardless.
Turanson 04-28-08, 10:26 AM	Soren vs. Orgauth is up just one more hit
TelinArtho 04-28-08, 10:31 AM	Perhaps Orgauth could use some lessons in casting in armor... that 10% failure rate has come up a bit more frequently than 10% of the time...
lonewolf 04-28-08, 11:23 AM	Thorell vs Verren is up.
dulsi 04-28-08, 12:36 PM	Perhaps Orgauth could use some lessons in casting in armor... that 10% failure rate has come up a bit more frequently than 10% of the time... The dice just don't like him. I lucked out and had good circumstances to take him out even without the shocking grasp. But in 4 rounds, I roll 1, 3, 1, and 8 to hit. Full hit points vs. 3 hp and Orgauth still can't manage that last hit.
whitebaron 04-28-08, 01:44 PM	Thorell vs Verren is up. i don't believe that this is the way blacklight is meant to be. i don't think it was ever meant to be "you see in and out of the darkness, and both good" basically, that spell would be better than greater invisibility, since it does not only give the caster total concealment, but also blinds the other - gives a lvl 3 spell that combines greater invis + blindness without save. The darkness is impenetrable to normal vision and darkvision, but the caster can see normally within the blacklit area. this surely can't mean he sees out. btw: thorell should do unarmed strikes for the attacks in round 13.
MindWandererB 04-28-08, 02:48 PM	i don't believe that this is the way blacklight is meant to be. i don't think it was ever meant to be "you see in and out of the darkness, and both good" basically, that spell would be better than greater invisibility, since it does not only give the caster total concealment, but also blinds the other - gives a lvl 3 spell that combines greater invis + blindness without save. this surely can't mean he sees out. btw: thorell should do unarmed strikes for the attacks in round 13. Unfortunately, this is indeed the way it works, and yes, Blacklight is an overpowered spell. It's balanced if you use it in a party, but solo it's pretty broken. We've had the discussion before: it creates a globe of impenetrable blackness that the caster ignores. (Why would you be unable to see in the light?)
TelinArtho 04-28-08, 02:51 PM	@Rith/Sauro - I have not received tactics for Theil's Loyal Retainers. I still have other things to work on at the moment, but if I finish them - I'll have to run with default or forfeit it.
whitebaron 04-28-08, 02:51 PM	Unfortunately, this is indeed the way it works, and yes, Blacklight is an overpowered spell. It's balanced if you use it in a party, but solo it's pretty broken. We've had the discussion before: it creates a globe of impenetrable blackness that the caster ignores. (Why would you be unable to see in the light?) well, you cannot see in. and see normally in the area of the globe, that's how it is actually worded. so if you cannot see through the globe (in) if you go out, why should the other direction work?
MindWandererB 04-28-08, 03:03 PM	well, you cannot see in. and see normally in the area of the globe, that's how it is actually worded. so if you cannot see through the globe (in) if you go out, why should the other direction work? Because the edge of the globe is not a barrier, it's just the edge of the darkness. For instance, if you were a devil inside an area of 3.0 (total) darkness, would you be able to see out of it? Of course--you ignore the dark area, and the light area doesn't obstruct vision for anyone. It's the same for Blacklight.
whitebaron 04-28-08, 03:10 PM	Because the edge of the globe is not a barrier, it's just the edge of the darkness. For instance, if you were a devil inside an area of 3.0 (total) darkness, would you be able to see out of it? Of course--you ignore the dark area, and the light area doesn't obstruct vision for anyone. It's the same for Blacklight. the devil would not see inside, as the spell explicitly states that even creatures that can normally see inside would not be able to see.
TelinArtho 04-28-08, 03:31 PM	While it might be powerful - it is not quite as potent as greater invisibility - it is dispelled with any level 3 or higher light spell (without dispel check!). While you cannot target someone within the effect - you can certainly know where that person is since the effect is tied to an item or person and it has a fairly small radius. Therefore - you can effectively target the area with an area of effect to get to the person within. Not everyone has access to daylight, but at the same time, very few have taken extensive castings of blacklight to prepare for each 3FC. Cat's last Harvester used it with some success, but I much doubt that his success was due to the blacklight. I hope this satisfies my obligation to post combinations to overcome the options of the opponent - let me know if it doesn't McJ... :P
whitebaron 04-28-08, 03:42 PM	1) cast it on an item and just stay inside the area - no need to be the target yourself. 2) lvl 3 or higher light spell = daylight. there's no other spell except sunburst/sunbeam, and if you are a lvl 13 druid, you've likely got better options than that. (summons with scent?) 3) Area spells: just because you can target the area, it does not necessarily mean that you hit the caster. most AoE spells are not caster-level dependent on their sizes - blacklight is. 35' blacklight vs 20' fireball @lvl 5, 50 vs 20 @ lvl 10. 4) blacklight and 3d-movement, like flying: even if tied to a person, you chose a corner - in 3d, this means 1/8 chance to chose the proper square, and then 50% miss chance. -> total sexy 6% to hit.
TelinArtho 04-28-08, 04:10 PM	Ahem: Area: A 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space Now - not all spells have a 20ft radius to cover that - granted - but its not like the opponent has a huge space to be in that area. Note that blacklight has a tragically short duration (like greater invisibility) - if the caster himself is not the target of the spell - he should be easy to avoid during the duration. And yes - summons would work well against someone in blacklight (but would still have a 50% miss chance for most of them. As for the lack of light spells above 3rd level - that's not my fault - but its not like getting access to daylight is difficult (Aasimir - 1/day; Archons at will (summon monster IV and above); Hand of Glory (1/day)) and some creatures can ignore the spell wholesale - See In Darkness ability of devils.
Yitzi 04-28-08, 04:41 PM	Darrgon vs. Petyr is up.
TelinArtho 04-28-08, 04:52 PM	Thanks for the run Yitzi.
whitebaron 04-28-08, 05:04 PM	the devils see in darkness ability is another one of those 3.0 relicts. and i see, it's useless to argue... since everything can be countered with a straight caster build. - well, no wonder higher levels only see full casters or special monsters...
Erithmu 04-28-08, 05:26 PM	@Rith/Sauro - I have not received tactics for Theil's Loyal Retainers. I still have other things to work on at the moment, but if I finish them - I'll have to run with default or forfeit it. I thought Sauro had sent them along ... I just sent them.
McJarvis 04-28-08, 06:15 PM	@lonewolf: Thorell was not mounted for that battle. Otherwise I would have said "start: thorell starts in square mounted on camel", or something similar. All tactics were made assuming he was not mounted. [especially considering mounted characters can not deliver dive attacks] This means Verran has that 3/4 miss chance since Thorell is _not_ large. [I even specifically mentioned that he was not large in my tactics] edit- @WB: As far as downsides of blacklight in comparison to greater invis are concerned, you are right there are few. One is the already mentioned dispel/counter vulnerabilities. Another is the again already mentioned fact that it outlines nicely where you "probably" are. And perhaps most relevant to thorell- there's no way for him to share it with his animal companion effectively. The way the spell is written I can't share-cast it without blinding both of us.
Callix 04-29-08, 04:24 AM	Darrgon vs. Petyr is up. Confirmed diving smite crits are kinda like that... Thanks for the run. EDIT: @McJarvis: I still don't have a reply. Should I assume Donovan and Lyonet aren't starting up this week?
lonewolf 04-29-08, 06:20 AM	@WB & McJarvis: I agree that there are some mistakes in that fight, but considering that it doesnt really look like an edit is going to change the winner, I have 2 more fights to run today, my internet connection was down yesterday and even now every time I try to acess the wizards forum I have only about a 5% chance of actually getting something other than a white page(reducing the post/page to 10 didnt help at all), could you do me a favor and accept the figh as it is?
Callix 04-29-08, 07:02 AM	@WB & McJarvis: I agree that there are some mistakes in that fight, but considering that it doesnt really look like an edit is going to change the winner, I have 2 more fights to run today, my internet connection was down yesterday and even now every time I try to acess the wizards forum I have only about a 5% chance of actually getting something other than a white page(reducing the post/page to 10 didnt help at all), could you do me a favor and accept the figh as it is? @Lonewolf: Change your forum skin. It really does fix the problem. I'm using MTG default, but anything other than Wizards Community Default seems to fix it.
lonewolf 04-29-08, 07:28 AM	it really seems to work. what a strange bug... If anyone has some time, I would appreciate if he could take over the Besthirah vs 3 Troll Hunter fight. Tactics are posted in the Battles thread. If noone volunteers, I will make it, but it probably will be late.
McJarvis 04-29-08, 08:34 AM	Confirmed diving smite crits are kinda like that... Thanks for the run. EDIT: @McJarvis: I still don't have a reply. Should I assume Donovan and Lyonet aren't starting up this week? Hmm. I guess it would be a hassle at this point, sorry about that. My Father had some health issues and I ended up taking a 3-day weekend up in Jersey. he's fine now, though... @WB & McJarvis: I agree that there are some mistakes in that fight, but considering that it doesnt really look like an edit is going to change the winner... Understood. I saw that WB had some edits, and I figured I'd throw my stuff out there just in case you decided to rerun.
whitebaron 04-29-08, 08:42 AM	Understood. I saw that WB had some edits, and I figured I'd throw my stuff out there just in case you decided to rerun. It's Verren - he loses on a regular basis. something about light and darkness spells, though: spells with the light descriptor and spells with the darkness descriptor cancel each other out. also, darkness mentions: Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness. so, if you bring continual flame into darkness, it would still work, you'd have light. i believe the same should apply for all light/darkness spells.
McJarvis 04-29-08, 08:45 AM	so, if you bring continual flame into darkness, it would still work, you'd have light. i believe the same should apply for all light/darkness spells. I came in believing that to be true[and still think it is "cool" enough that I allow it at tabletop], but only spells which specifically state this weakness // specifically mention they negate (dark/light) spells get that feature.
TelinArtho 04-29-08, 12:25 PM	Flutterthought (MindWandererB) vs Half-Orc Cleric 7 and 3 Orc Fighters 4 (Unknown Monster) Yes they had no chance...
McJarvis 04-29-08, 01:14 PM	Ok, I just found out it is tuesday. I took Monday off and I was thinking I had until tomorrow night to do my fights- threw me off completely. All fights of mine will be done tonight. I forget how many there are, but I'll find the willpower not to play GTA4 until after they are done....somehow.
dulsi 04-29-08, 01:15 PM	Torik Loraheim vs. Uguudok Dull-Eye is up. I skipped exact moves towards the end since they repeat. Let me know if anyone has an objections. @Yitzi: I posted a prison violation for Torik's tower shield. You can't have a mithral tower shield.
lonewolf 04-29-08, 02:47 PM	Im continuing the discussion of WW vs Sir Valkin here. @t10: - You seem to have missed that Sir Valkin is Falkos favored enemy => another +2 to all his damage rolls.
templer10 04-29-08, 03:02 PM	Im continuing the discussion of WW vs Sir Valkin here. @t10: - You seem to have missed that Sir Valkin is Falkos favored enemy => another +2 to all his damage rolls. sigh- i really shouldnt be pitlording with 3 hours of sleep - ill go check if it changes something.
TelinArtho 04-29-08, 03:08 PM	Well - on my side - Sir Valkin should be riding for cover when possible (ie - when he's not charging), and you need to take into account the DR from his armor as well. The ride for cover makes a lot of those arrow hits into misses.
templer10 04-29-08, 03:19 PM	Most recent version of me pitloring with 2 little sleep is up - i didnt bother editing past round 5, the pounce + falko missing due to ride for cover ended khamul career earlier and further edit wont make a diffrence i think.
lonewolf 04-29-08, 03:50 PM	Vallgar vs Vivi is up
TelinArtho 04-29-08, 04:09 PM	Well - I disagree that improvising shield was "too much" - it is a simple defense against a simple spell. This is on the same level of someone getting hit by blindness and not using synesthete (which was argued about not too long ago). That said - I didn't include it in my tactics - so I have nothing to argue about.
whitebaron 04-29-08, 04:10 PM	well, there are some points we have to adress here now: 0) About charging: there are boulders, yes. but there are also pillars which perfectly help even against large creatures charging. 1) Khamul did not fall below 10 (1+14+7 is not even below 20) total hp in round 3, so no need for crucio to cast CLW - MM would be it. 2) Since Khamuls opposed roll disarms on the first, the second one should be an AoO. There is no way for Valkin to take an action while he does another action - valkin can quickdraw his sword, but only after the charge. Note that Khamuls written bonus to damage is wrong, too. he gains 6 strength for +9 damage due to cops+rage, and +1 from prayer. => +10. 3) Prayer, again: on a crit or dive, i believe the prayer penalty is multiplied as well. Critical Hits double or triple the amount of a damage roll, and prayer gives -1 on each damage roll. 4) round 4: even though the charge was blocked, valkin should have -2 to AC due to charging, giving falko another hit. 5) As a result of all this, Crucio would never resign, and Valkin would likely be much lower on HP. (Crucio can tell pretty good - he has heal +14) to be straightforward: i believe you should be reducing the number of fights you do per week. it helps noone if you get into timing problems (lately more often), and the fights are pretty late or held sloppy. --- edit: and another note about flyers: due to coco house rules, there is pretty lots of spaces to be hindering a large griffon to charge - it needs 4 squares width to be actually flying anywhere. --- edit again: the more i'm looking at the fight, the more mistakes i find: crucio should cast sof on khamul in round 2. it's obvious he cannot charge to there, so no need to ready prayer. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Name,L,45,32;b= Name,M,33,62;c=Name,L,31,61;los=45,32,31 ,61,4;style=s --- edit 3: also, khamul should hit on his aoo in round 3, since the ac is 24-2(charge) and khamul rolled a 6 there + 16 to attack = exactly 22. -- #4 last mention about griffons here from me: basically, a griffon has facing due to his average maneuverability. to prevent a charge, you just have to move where he would have to turn. he can only turn after covering 5' of distance, which prevents any charge he could do. -> with such complicated flying rules, anyone wondering why wotc put flying way back for 4e environment? or why i hate flying fights?
lonewolf 04-29-08, 04:27 PM	rewards for Thorell vs verren is up. Im not sure is I can finish Besthirahs fight today, but I´ll get it done before the deadline.
templer10 04-29-08, 04:36 PM	well, there are some points we have to adress here now: 0) About charging: there are boulders, yes. but there are also pillars which perfectly help even against large creatures charging. 1) Khamul did not fall below 10 (1+14+7 is not even below 20) total hp in round 3, so no need for crucio to cast CLW - MM would be it. 2) Since Khamuls opposed roll disarms on the first, the second one should be an AoO. There is no way for Valkin to take an action while he does another action - valkin can quickdraw his sword, but only after the charge. Note that Khamuls written bonus to damage is wrong, too. he gains 6 strength for +9 damage due to cops+rage, and +1 from prayer. => +10. 3) Prayer, again: on a crit or dive, i believe the prayer penalty is multiplied as well. Critical Hits double or triple the amount of a damage roll, and prayer gives -1 on each damage roll. 4) round 4: even though the charge was blocked, valkin should have -2 to AC due to charging, giving falko another hit. 5) As a result of all this, Crucio would never resign, and Valkin would likely be much lower on HP. (Crucio can tell pretty good - he has heal +14) to be straightforward: i believe you should be reducing the number of fights you do per week. it helps noone if you get into timing problems (lately more often), and the fights are pretty late or held sloppy. --- edit: and another note about flyers: due to coco house rules, there is pretty lots of spaces to be hindering a large griffon to charge - it needs 4 squares width to be actually flying anywhere. --- edit again: the more i'm looking at the fight, the more mistakes i find: crucio should cast sof on khamul in round 2. it's obvious he cannot charge to there, so no need to ready prayer. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Name,L,45,32;b= Name,M,33,62;c=Name,L,31,61;los=45,32,31 ,61,4;style=s About SOF - i disagree - valkin could have gotten into range in that round. about charging - the boulders doesnt prevent charging when the charger is airborne and the pillars offer little to on protection with teh vast diffrence in speed. about the CLW - ill edit it if needed. about quickdrawing - it's a free action i dont see a problem with doing them in the middle of a charge and before the charger even swung his attack. ill check the Strength thing. dont know what you mean but there was no problem with the charge in round 3 but in any case - valkins ride for cover (Automakes it) for the extra +4 AC so no hits - ill check tommarow if there is any major diffrence if there is ill edit (ill try before pairings). about the fight itself - yea it wasn't my best - like i said earlier - i did it on 3 hours of sleep and 12 hours of work and i normally only do 1 fight a week now since i have so little time.
whitebaron 04-29-08, 04:45 PM	about the charge: ok, it works like this: valkin starts to charge. he gets -2 ac. he can't ride for cover. he is in the middle of an action. 1: you can't do any other action while you are actually executing another action, unless you have a feat (e.g. cast while moving) - this includes even free actions. 2: we all agree that for aoos against a charge, you don't get cover, right? 3: even if the charge was hampered by khamul, valkin meant to charge. the -2 to AC is because of the recklessness of the attack, not about whether he hit or he didnt. about sof: its not really important, but there was no way he could charge us in that round - since crucio knows this, there is no reason to waste a round. that's after all the point why there is included in the tactics: "and about to barge in on us" about the pillars and charge: the griffon has a 20ft square he needs to fly. he cannot change directions from his last flight direction without taking a 5ft fly movement before, which also negates charges. but i won't dwell on that - fly rules are the ugliest i've ever seen. also, the pillars are as high as the arena. so they do offer protection. also, there should be no way for valkin to change whether overseer wants to e part of the attack or not after starting to charge. charge takes up all his actions for this round... so not like he could change it after 10ft of movement...
TelinArtho 04-29-08, 05:06 PM	With regard to the heal - you will want to give some more specific tactics WB: A character always knows his own health exactly, but guessing the injury level of others is a different matter. That's where the Heal skill comes in. Note that Heal also functions untrained so if a character has a very high Wisdom, he may be able to determine more than the default. Default: By default, a character without the appropriate value in the Heal skill can only determine other's health status as "Unconscious/Dead, Disabled, Injured, Uninjured" and automatically succeeds. Medicus: The study of medicine helps in assessing wounds. If a character has a Heal value as high as the target creature's HD+5, he can determine the injury level of that creature as "Dead, Unconscious, Disabled, Quarter Health, Half Health, Three-quarter Health, Uninjured". Additionally, a character recognizes the symptoms of poisons and diseases and can tell if someone is affected by that. Anatomist: Specialized in the field of anatomy, those characters can immideately see the exact health status of a creature (in hitpoints). To use this, a character must have a Heal value as high as the target creature's HD+5 and have the appropriate Knowledge value for that type of creature at HD+5. For example, to determine the exact health status of a 7-headed Hydra [7 HD] a character needs Heal+12 and Knowledge Arcana+12. Bardic knowledge and Lore always count as the necessary knowledge skill. Crucio has a +14 heal skill, but only a +3 knowledge (nature) [lore is +9]. Since Khamul has 7HD, Crucio would need a +12 heal check (which you have) and a +12 knowledge/lore check (which he doesn't have). The best he can do is determine 1/4 health segments. In this case, Khamul has suffered 58 points of damage out of a possible 59 normally. Now if the heal knowledge is based off of this information, he is in the lowest quarter of his hit points (so your healing contingency would clearly kick in). If the heal check is based off of current hp vs current maximum (22 and 80) - then it is a tougher evaluation. Personally - I don't know which the heal check should be based off of. The former is more kind to individuals with more hp and with Con drain; the latter is more kind to individuals who have the ability to buff their con. Regardless - your tactics cannot call for healing at specific hp levels unless you want your characters to start spouting out their individual HP each time they are hit or unless Crucio raises his knowledge/lore to better levels.
templer10 04-29-08, 05:07 PM	about the charge: ok, it works like this: valkin starts to charge. he gets -2 ac. he can't ride for cover. he is in the middle of an action. 1: you can't do any other action while you are actually executing another action, unless you have a feat (e.g. cast while moving) - this includes even free actions. 2: we all agree that for aoos against a charge, you don't get cover, right? 3: even if the charge was hampered by khamul, valkin meant to charge. the -2 to AC is because of the recklessness of the attack, not about whether he hit or he didnt. about sof: its not really important, but there was no way he could charge us in that round - since crucio knows this, there is no reason to waste a round. that's after all the point why there is included in the tactics: "and about to barge in on us" about the pillars and charge: the griffon has a 20ft square he needs to fly. he cannot change directions from his last flight direction without taking a 5ft fly movement before, which also negates charges. but i won't dwell on that - fly rules are the ugliest i've ever seen. also, the pillars are as high as the arena. so they do offer protection. also, there should be no way for valkin to change whether overseer wants to e part of the attack or not after starting to charge. charge takes up all his actions for this round... so not like he could change it after 10ft of movement... the ride for cover is AFTER the charge occurs in round 4 (the charge is in round 3) and they are against the ranged attacks - in taht round valkin had AC 24-2(charge)+4(ride for cover)=26 so those 2 shots missed. i disagree about what you said about actions - you can 5 foot between attacks in a full attack without any feat - i don't see why you cant quickdraw a weapon. about changing wheter or not overseer wants to be part of the attack - i think he can personally but the point is moot - the mount is intelligent and can decide to do stuff on it's own so it can decide to continue the charge which it was doing anyway if it's master suddenly can't attack. about the edits i mentioned earlier - like i said - ill check tommarow.
SauroGrenom 04-29-08, 05:17 PM	Awww... stuff.. I was wondering why Telin hadn't run the fight with Gak vs Thiel's Royal Retainers, so I checked my PM where I sent in the tactics. I sent it to "Telin" instead of "TelinArtho"... That was last Thursday. For crying out loud, I terribly sorry for the stupid blunder. I'll send them along now to the correct Telin, but I don't expect anything. Sorry Rith, that was just stupid of me. I should have checked it earlier. Much earlier.
whitebaron 04-29-08, 05:31 PM	@telin: i meant about the general amount of damage inflicted on valkin. - crucio can clearly see that he's hit heavily. about healing contingencies: if it needs be, ok, the characters will call for it themselves, and not crucio decide. but that's nitpicking on your side now - since khamul knows his exact health, he could simply say "heal me" and not shout out his HP total - which is the most likely application in any combat anyway. it's just formulated in a straigthfoward and easy way for the pitlord to read. - should i write tactics that actually DO RP? the ride for cover is AFTER the charge occurs in round 4 (the charge is in round 3) and they are against the ranged attacks - in taht round valkin had AC 24-2(charge)+4(ride for cover)=26 so those 2 shots missed. i disagree about what you said about actions - you can 5 foot between attacks in a full attack without any feat - i don't see why you cant quickdraw a weapon. about changing wheter or not overseer wants to be part of the attack - i think he can personally but the point is moot - the mount is intelligent and can decide to do stuff on it's own so it can decide to continue the charge which it was doing anyway if it's master suddenly can't attack. about the edits i mentioned earlier - like i said - ill check tommarow. ok, so you can cast a quickened spell while full attacking, or while moving? that's new to me. also, is there any rules reference about the 5' step and full attacks? but changing the charge - it's not an option. either you're going to attack, or you are not. after the movement started, there is NO WAY you still can charge. (or stop the charge)
TelinArtho 04-29-08, 05:42 PM	Well - you lucked out Sauro in that Rith sent them along when I posted about it yesterday. That said - I have been real busy - so I haven't had the opportunity to do the fight anyway. I'm still optimistic I'll finish it before the final deadline - but it might be held over.
Yitzi 04-29-08, 08:20 PM	Dulsi, Torik's tactics explicitly said to avoid being based. Why wasn't that happening? Also, I don't think thrown weapons can be recovered after being thrown (I'm not sure though; the SRD doesn't say what happens, but I find it hard to believe it is usable again after hitting, and if it's different when it misses, it should say.) Similarly, you didn't put down ammo usage for Torik. Finally, the fight would be easier to read if you'd use the battle mapmaker (link at the beginning of this thread). Edit: Based on the prison violation, I think it's best just to remake the character, so there's no need to rerun the fight.
dulsi 04-29-08, 09:34 PM	Dulsi, Torik's tactics explicitly said to avoid being based. Why wasn't that happening? Also, I don't think thrown weapons can be recovered after being thrown. Similarly, you didn't put down ammo usage for Torik. Finally, the fight would be easier to read if you'd use the battle mapmaker (link at the beginning of this thread). I thought you wanted to stay within the center pillars which prevents you from getting a shot without getting based. If you looped out and around you'd be in danger of being of having a clear path to run, which he could run an base. Once based in the open he would have get an AoO while you withdrew due to his reach. Simply being faster than the opponent is not sufficient to avoid basing. The recovered weapon can be ignored as it didn't have any effect. Just seemed reasonable since he had the time while Torik switched out his shield, reloaded the sling, and returned. I know I didn't write down the stones used. Considering they are free and you have 200 at home I figured it really didn't matter. I know of the mapper and find it a great tool to help run fights. Not fond of including all the images in the battle thread. I give coordinates if you want to recreate.
McJarvis 04-30-08, 12:28 AM	Thanio vs howler is done.
McJarvis 04-30-08, 01:01 AM	Eland vs 2 Azers is done. Dice won that one- Eland couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and the azers couldn't stop rolling 17-20's.
CrazyArtificer 04-30-08, 03:16 AM	Eland vs 2 Azers is done. Dice won that one- Eland couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and the azers couldn't stop rolling 17-20's. Thanks for the run. It's routine for Eland :D
Callix 04-30-08, 04:13 AM	Thanio vs howler is done. I really don't seem to have the hang of wizards, do I? Thanks for the run. One problem; Thanio's Snipe hide check is listed as +10; it should be +1. Howler still can't see him, so it's a "future reference" kinda thing.
templer10 04-30-08, 05:56 AM	@telin: i meant about the general amount of damage inflicted on valkin. - crucio can clearly see that he's hit heavily. about healing contingencies: if it needs be, ok, the characters will call for it themselves, and not crucio decide. but that's nitpicking on your side now - since khamul knows his exact health, he could simply say "heal me" and not shout out his HP total - which is the most likely application in any combat anyway. it's just formulated in a straigthfoward and easy way for the pitlord to read. - should i write tactics that actually DO RP? ok, so you can cast a quickened spell while full attacking, or while moving? that's new to me. also, is there any rules reference about the 5' step and full attacks? but changing the charge - it's not an option. either you're going to attack, or you are not. after the movement started, there is NO WAY you still can charge. (or stop the charge) a quickened spells takes up a swift action not a free action. about the 5 foot thing - from the SRD: "Take 5-Foot Step You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance. You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round. " about the charge - there is no change - in order of valkin to charge, the mount has to charge also it's simply that normally the charge is cut short since the mount can't reach his enemy due to the rider stopping the charge with his lance - here the charge isnt stopped so overseer can continue to charge.
whitebaron 04-30-08, 07:07 AM	there are no swift actions outside of psionics, which introduced that concept. quicken spell is a free action that can be used only once each turn, which means you can cast a quickened spell while moving. also, i found something which is pretty hard to find, but its in the srd: Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally this makes it even worse concerning casting a quickened spell. a high level gish could full attack, and cast the quickened spell while attacking, giving one of his lower bonus attacks the +20 bonus. as for swift actions: You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve psionics or the activation of psionic items;many characters (especially those who don’t use psionics) never have an opportunity to take a swift action. so the same is true here. about the charge: i'm standing with my initial declaration: you have to say whether overseer attacks while charging or not before the charge starts. you can not change this while executing the action. and btw: telin never specified to attack with overseer in the charge. ;) @telin: i found another (but useless) point: you don't have an animated shield. so you can't use your bow and then charge the next round. skip those bowshots and you're fine. also, you can't hold your lance or any other weapon two-handed.
templer10 04-30-08, 07:30 AM	there are no swift actions outside of psionics, which introduced that concept. quicken spell is a free action that can be used only once each turn, which means you can cast a quickened spell while moving. also, i found something which is pretty hard to find, but its in the srd: this makes it even worse concerning casting a quickened spell. a high level gish could full attack, and cast the quickened spell while attacking, giving one of his lower bonus attacks the +20 bonus. as for swift actions: so the same is true here. about the charge: i'm standing with my initial declaration: you have to say whether overseer attacks while charging or not before the charge starts. you can not change this while executing the action. and btw: telin never specified to attack with overseer in the charge. ;) @telin: i found another (but useless) point: you don't have an animated shield. so you can't use your bow and then charge the next round. skip those bowshots and you're fine. also, you can't hold your lance or any other weapon two-handed. quickining a spell is a swift action since a few erratas or FAW (dont remmber which) ago - check the SRD - i stand by my interpritation about quickdraw if you disagree - the way to the courtroom is free. about the shield - seems you are correct - seems telin was wrong in writing in the tactics he had an animated shield - ill check it out (later) - btw - for those edits - the fight might be done in time for pairings but iam not sure. btw - even with the things that need editing (the Str for khamul, this one - other stuff) isnt enough to change things i think. i wont be editing to remove the charge or to not quickdraw - i stand by my interpritation - youll need an elder majority for that.
McJarvis 04-30-08, 09:03 AM	I really don't seem to have the hang of wizards, do I? Thanks for the run. One problem; Thanio's Snipe hide check is listed as +10; it should be +1. Howler still can't see him, so it's a "future reference" kinda thing. Your problem would seem to be a lack of tech. Wizards are not great because of save or die spells, but because of the aggregate of save or die spells, defensive spells like mirror image and invisibility, and spells that "speed you up" like expeditious retreat, fly, haste, etc, etc. If you had had an invisibility scroll + blindness, this fight might have gone differently. As far as the +10, I know- auto-complete fields are my bane in the CoCo dice roller.
lonewolf 04-30-08, 09:05 AM	Besthirah vs 3 Troll Hunters is up
McJarvis 04-30-08, 09:31 AM	Rewards for Eland vs Monster and thanio vs howler are up.
Sjiggie 04-30-08, 09:32 AM	McJarvis: Could you post the rewards for Gradak vs Urenadal as well I said I'm fine with the fight as is. Nothing I can do about the web/swarm combo. Sjiggie
whitebaron 04-30-08, 09:49 AM	@t10: does not matter. you still can cast a quickened spell whilst moving. about the quickdraw: my rules excerpt clerly stated that you can do any free action while moving. read it again. i conceded in this point: about the charge: this is something entirely different. you can't change an action simply like that. imagine the following: psion vs. psion. psion 1: i cast xxx:fire psion 2: immediate energy adaptation fire psion 1: ok, then i change it to cold. clearly it does NOT work like that. i agree that overseer might have wanted to charge from the beginning, which is not clearly stated in telins tactics but is within reasonable pitlording interpretation. changing it just because valkin did not hit, is not an option, though. WW won't activate this week, no time since our tabletop day is switched to today and i'll be away/occupied for the rest of the week.
McJarvis 04-30-08, 09:49 AM	McJarvis: Could you post the rewards for Gradak vs Urenadal as well I said I'm fine with the fight as is. Nothing I can do about the web/swarm combo. Sjiggie Done- sorry about that. I forgot that I hadn't posted the rewards yet.
McJarvis 04-30-08, 09:55 AM	@remaining gladiators: Sorry, but it's gonna be a holdover. The good news is I think I can get it done tonight after work :)
TelinArtho 04-30-08, 09:58 AM	Hmm - don't know what I was thinking about on Sir Valkin's shield - its been a while since I ran him though - so it happens. As to the rest, I'll wait to see an updated fight if there is going to be one. I have plenty of things to do than worry about a single fight getting held over.
templer10 04-30-08, 12:35 PM	Hmm - don't know what I was thinking about on Sir Valkin's shield - its been a while since I ran him though - so it happens. As to the rest, I'll wait to see an updated fight if there is going to be one. I have plenty of things to do than worry about a single fight getting held over. OK - ill pm MWB to hold it over despite the fact i don't think it will change anything in the end and i stick by what i said earlier about the charge.