Post/Author/DateTime	Post
McJarvis 03-26-08, 08:58 AM	Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. News and Whatnot New Rulings - Courtroom Freedom of Movement is blocked by wall like effects that prevent all movement accross the wall. Examples of this are most of the "wall" spells, forcecage, and anti-life shell. [This is not an exhaustive list] Elders voting: Rith, Sauro, MWB, Crazy. The Council Decisions/Revelations Intelligent items are no longer "Random". They are merely approved on the black market and quested for. [They still cost credits, though] Current Topics Council - Mechanics of the "Awaken" spell is currently being discussed in the council. Courtroom- Good grief, we're talking about the Bag of Tricks again. Sooner or later Lelenia will level enough that we can put these discussions behind us. :-) Council- Delay rules are still being discussed. Check out the Courtroom and Council to join in all the fun! Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. New idea: let's not insult anyone, ok? :) Pairings GM MindWandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
whitebaron 03-26-08, 09:05 AM	Courtroom- Good grief, we're talking about the Bag of Tricks again. Sooner or later Lelenia will level enough that we can put these discussions behind us. :-) your wish, not mine. :) but i'll add a griffon and a marble elefant once i have the time and money for that. ;) btw: hitting +40 PC, after the next fight. :)
McJarvis 03-26-08, 03:16 PM	Hmm...6 gladiators readied at ecl6...maybe this will be thorell's first "special fight" week.
MindWandererB 03-26-08, 03:52 PM	Nope. Pairings done. Credits: Callix F1 CrazyArtificer F2 Q-1 dulsi F1 Q-1 Durzulgor F1 Erithmu Q-1 Huan Q2 lonewolf F2 A-1 McJarvis F3 SauroGrenom F1 Stormwind Q2 TelinArtho F2 A-5 Q-2 templer10 F1 Turanson F1 whitebaron F4 A-2 MindWandererB A2 A-1 Vathelokai Q2
TelinArtho 03-26-08, 04:03 PM	@lonewolf - Varjo is up against 1 huge magical beast quadruped. Good luck.
whitebaron 03-26-08, 04:05 PM	@telin 2 medium 2-legged creatures for s'lertak.
Sjiggie 03-26-08, 04:08 PM	@pitlords/Crazy Artificer I'm working on the team fight now and almost finished no need to assign another pitlord for it. Sorry to not let you know. Sjiggie
MindWandererB 03-26-08, 04:08 PM	Also, I just finished adding up the fight totals for last week, and TelinArtho deserves special congratulations for being the first person to reach 200 fights run! (Yes, I know you ran a ton of fights before Cat started logging them, so you actually hit it a while ago, but now it's official!)
MindWandererB 03-26-08, 04:10 PM	@pitlords/Crazy Artificer I'm working on the team fight now and almost finished no need to assign another pitlord for it. Sorry to not let you know. Sjiggie In that case: Mineau Guwango (Turanson) vs. Thorell Runesmith (McJarvis) : Durzulgor CrazyArtificer [Arena] The Eternal Dreamless Sleep (hogarth|templer10) vs. Thiel's Loyal Retainers (Erithmu|SauroGrenom) : CrazyArtificer Sjiggie [Plains] [Week 3] [Setup] In case Durz doesn't get his internet back up.
Callix 03-26-08, 04:14 PM	Monster rolled for Gakhnalak: 3 Medium winged bipeds.
TelinArtho 03-26-08, 04:23 PM	Also, I just finished adding up the fight totals for last week, and TelinArtho deserves special congratulations for being the first person to reach 200 fights run! (Yes, I know you ran a ton of fights before Cat started logging them, so you actually hit it a while ago, but now it's official!) Nice to have that milestone under my belt... so who's going to race me to 500?
McJarvis 03-26-08, 04:23 PM	heh. I like how "1 fight, offer: +2" translates to "3" every week :)
whitebaron 03-26-08, 04:28 PM	heh. I like how "1 fight, offer: +2" translates to "3" every week :) well, my <zero> seems very popular, too. :) (=>4)
lonewolf 03-26-08, 04:35 PM	@lonewolf - Varjo is up against 1 huge magical beast quadruped. Good luck. Varjo is STILL not my character. :P
lonewolf 03-26-08, 04:45 PM	@Erithmu: Owen faces 1 Half-Celestial Gynosphinx, 1 Half-Fiend Gynosphinx, and 1 augmented Gynosphinx Your knowledge skills give you also the equipment of those things, so I will try to have it up asap. EDIT: Post with equipment info is up
SauroGrenom 03-26-08, 04:53 PM	@pitlords/Crazy Artificer I'm working on the team fight now and almost finished no need to assign another pitlord for it. Sorry to not let you know. SjiggieGood to know that things are moving ahead... One thing. Since I saw this, I looked at the roller, and Lordrum's sunder damage is 2d6+7 not 2d6+4. His shatterspike blade has a higher damage boost when used to sunder. That may or may not be important.
TelinArtho 03-26-08, 05:01 PM	Varjo is STILL not my character. :P Just face it lonewolf - you really are a multiple identity of Stormwind. I'm sorry you had to find out this way - but someone had to say it. ... So yeah - @stormwind... blah blah blah - read my post above and replace "@lonewolf" with @stormwind.
Callix 03-26-08, 05:16 PM	@McJarvis: Tactics for Petyr and Ralein are away. Neither fight should cause you too much grief. Also, Telin has informed me that Petyr has 1 less pp available, not that it matters.
templer10 03-26-08, 05:36 PM	lonewolf - monster is rolled - juvenile bronze dragon - good luck.
Sjiggie 03-26-08, 05:41 PM	Good to know that things are moving ahead... One thing. Since I saw this, I looked at the roller, and Lordrum's sunder damage is 2d6+7 not 2d6+4. His shatterspike blade has a higher damage boost when used to sunder. That may or may not be important. Thanks for the heads up but I saw it already the damage is listed correct in the fight.
Stormwind 03-26-08, 06:35 PM	Just face it lonewolf - you really are a multiple identity of Stormwind. I'm sorry you had to find out this way - but someone had to say it. ... So yeah - @stormwind... blah blah blah - read my post above and replace "@lonewolf" with @stormwind. Funny how this seems to happen ... However it's a mystery to me how people can mix up Austria and Finland. ;)
McJarvis 03-26-08, 06:44 PM	Funny how this seems to happen ... However it's a mystery to me how people can mix up Austria and Finland. ;) ***plays dumb american*** Yeah, they're totally on opposite sides of the planet. And Finland doesn't have kangaroos.
whitebaron 03-26-08, 06:47 PM	And Finland doesn't have kangaroos. austria's kangaroos are even in the news now and then. mostly, when they escaped from some farmers who try to breed them, but nevertheless - way to go, aussies! :)
MindWandererB 03-26-08, 06:56 PM	<Groan> @whitebaron, Callix, lonewolf: Tactics are out.
MagicChoco 03-26-08, 07:04 PM	Ruddy's not fighting this week, is he?
lonewolf 03-26-08, 07:07 PM	@MagicChoco: He is not set ready for this week => no. @templer, Turanson: Tactics for Darian & Korwald are out. @Saurogrenom: Im not sure when I´ll be able to write tactics for The Chameleon, but it could be as late as Friday evening...
MagicChoco 03-26-08, 07:11 PM	Ah...my way of phrasing things strikes again. I meant to say, I fight Ruddy, but he's not listed as a fighter for this week.
lonewolf 03-26-08, 07:15 PM	looks like a mistake to me. MWB?
MindWandererB 03-26-08, 07:19 PM	Yes, that's a mistake. Have a monster.
whitebaron 03-26-08, 08:13 PM	Yes, that's a mistake. Have a monster. and here it is - Large , 2-legged monster. note: knowledge(other) is not applicable - if you don't have a rank in the knowledge skill, there's no such thing as a knowledge check for it. it is trained only.
TelinArtho 03-26-08, 08:53 PM	All of my tactics have been sent. Should go pretty easy to medium to "might-as-well-surrender" - in no particular order... good luck to my opponents.
Rauul 03-26-08, 10:11 PM	Ah...my way of phrasing things strikes again. I meant to say, I fight Ruddy, but he's not listed as a fighter for this week. Yea i forgot to set him active... darn it.. i don't have any active this week it looks... Sorry about that..
whitebaron 03-27-08, 02:56 AM	Yea i forgot to set him active... darn it.. i don't have any active this week it looks... Sorry about that.. if choco wants to fight your ruddy, i have no problem with that either... just ask him and mwb? :) -- that aside, as telin already sent me tactics - what would you take for a half giant psychic warrior 1? - i'm inclined towards either standstill+psionic weapon or pbs+psionic shot. power's obviously vigor, as their hitpoints will be quite low (4+con)
Rauul 03-27-08, 03:22 AM	if choco wants to fight your ruddy, i have no problem with that either... just ask him and mwb? :) -- that aside, as telin already sent me tactics - what would you take for a half giant psychic warrior 1? - i'm inclined towards either standstill+psionic weapon or pbs+psionic shot. power's obviously vigor, as their hitpoints will be quite low (4+con) Na.. i messed up.. 2 weeks in a row acually.. last week shadow was suppost to be active.. this week i was gonna look for a Miniquester for Shadow.. Sort of been out of it with Dr appointments.. So a weeks vacation may be good for me
McJarvis 03-27-08, 09:28 AM	Tactics for thorell are out. I am hoping my opponent is not as creative as I was last time we met :)
Turanson 03-27-08, 09:41 AM	don't think that I will be I can't think of any attack that you can't counter :( but I'll give it some more thought and try to come up with somthing:plotting:
Erithmu 03-27-08, 10:11 AM	@Erithmu: Owen faces 1 Half-Celestial Gynosphinx, 1 Half-Fiend Gynosphinx, and 1 augmented Gynosphinx Your knowledge skills give you also the equipment of those things, so I will try to have it up asap. EDIT: Post with equipment info is upNot that it matters but I get the phrenic template off Nest's Lore. are the half-XXXX native or extraplanar (assuming native)
lonewolf 03-27-08, 10:18 AM	Yes they are native outsiders.
whitebaron 03-27-08, 01:21 PM	tactics for my fights are out 1 seems easy, 1 close, 1 impossible. let's see. :)
Erithmu 03-27-08, 01:27 PM	@Lonewolf: Owen's Tactics are out.
TelinArtho 03-27-08, 03:29 PM	Felice tu'Ria (Salrantol) vs Gwerden "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) is up. On some of the initial running rounds, I know I didn't move Gwerden correctly (moved him as a medium character - not a large character). This might have shortened some of the runs - but wouldn't have shortened them enough to make a difference in the end though. If there's any issues, let me know.
Turanson 03-27-08, 05:38 PM	@Dulsi, Crazy, Lonewolf, Baron. All tactics has been sent and received
templer10 03-27-08, 05:42 PM	lonewolf - tactics for dark one vs annoying pixie are out.
Stormwind 03-27-08, 05:47 PM	@Telin: Tactics for Varjo sent. (By process of elimination, I'm guessing it's a hydra ... lets see how it goes)
TelinArtho 03-27-08, 05:59 PM	Okay - now that I have tactics - time for me to ask what happens when a creature with more than 6 BAB and more than 2 natural attacks gets grappled. I know if it tries to grapple for damage or grapple to escape, it gets one attack per 5 points in BAB. But, for example, if it succeeds on its first check to escape - how many attacks does it have left on the full attack? Specifically - a 10-headed hydra has 10 attacks per round, but would only get 2 in a grapple. If it does a full attack to escape the grapple and then attack after, and succeeds on the first check to escape - how many bite attacks does it get when it has escaped? 9? 1? And for a different type of example - what about a dragon with various forms of attack (bite, 2 claws, 2 wings, tail slap)?
MindWandererB 03-27-08, 06:08 PM	One school of thought states that a creature can only make attacks in a grapple or attacks out of a grapple, but not both in the same round. If one of its attacks changes its grappling status, then that's all it gets for the round. For instance, if a polar bear missed its first claw and succeeded on the second in initiating an improved grab, it would neither get a bite nor an iterative grapple check--it's done. There are aspects of that approach that I don't like (for instance, if a creature is making only grapple checks, this means that it loses subsequent iterative attacks once it succeeds in initiating or escaping the grapple), but I think for this purpose it works as well as anything else.
Salrantol 03-27-08, 06:35 PM	Felice tu'Ria (Salrantol) vs Gwerden "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) is up. On some of the initial running rounds, I know I didn't move Gwerden correctly (moved him as a medium character - not a large character). This might have shortened some of the runs - but wouldn't have shortened them enough to make a difference in the end though. If there's any issues, let me know.Wow, that has to be the worst case of timing I've ever seen--the only really big hole was if he manifested Specified Energy Adaptation exactly when he did. Congratulations to whitebaron. If he'd lost, he'd probably complain about the running, since Gwerdan does have the Run feat, but I'm sure he'll let it stand. Edit: And in retrospect, a contingency for Ego Whip if he SEA'd when he did would have been a good idea too. Edit 2: And in all honesty, I'm surprised to have survived to get as many powers away as I did--if I'd've considered he was going to try to evade, I'd've probably gone with Ego Whip, but I expected that he'd just try to kill Felice when she showed up.
TelinArtho 03-27-08, 07:48 PM	He does have the run feat - but the arena is only so big. If he runs 200ft in one round, he'll have at most 200ft in the next round. If he runs less than 200ft (so he's closer to the center), he might have as much as 250ft to work with - but if Felice is able to run 180ft and has a 60ft radius on the touchsight - she's pretty much able to get to him from wherever. One school of thought states that a creature can only make attacks in a grapple or attacks out of a grapple, but not both in the same round. If one of its attacks changes its grappling status, then that's all it gets for the round. For instance, if a polar bear missed its first claw and succeeded on the second in initiating an improved grab, it would neither get a bite nor an iterative grapple check--it's done. There are aspects of that approach that I don't like (for instance, if a creature is making only grapple checks, this means that it loses subsequent iterative attacks once it succeeds in initiating or escaping the grapple), but I think for this purpose it works as well as anything else. Hmm - that could be pretty nasty against a guy who has a lot of natural attacks (like - say Aquin) who might fail an initial grapple check but might break free rather easily. I can't say I like it - absurdity of a hydra getting grappled in the first place (though with a spell effect it is easier to write off) - it just means that having many natural attacks can be easily negated by a single grapple... Anyway - I don't think it will come up much in this fight, so I'll just run with it and see where it leads. Might get to it tonight - might be tomorrow.
whitebaron 03-28-08, 06:36 AM	Felice tu'Ria (Salrantol) vs Gwerden "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) is up. If there's any issues, let me know. thanks for the run! since salrantol does not want to change anything, neither do i. - could find some issues with damages, movement or such - but what bugs me more is that i did not manifest energy adaptation earlier. :) being invisible, means i need defenses first if i get interrupted, not dissolving weapons. also, i wanted to include a proper buff-interrupt-contingency and then forgot. glad it still worked out. @my fighters: all tactics except lucifers received. 2 clarifications requested. since i know mucki's busy today and goes visiting his parents, tactics deadline for this fight will be extended to sunday noon. @grapple: i agree it does not make much sense - but in a grapple, you kinda lose standard and move action and trade it in for grapple options... in my reading of the rules, a hydra would get some more unarmed strikes after escaping with opposed grapple - according to its BAB. or, if it did not use more than one attack, can move away.
mucki 03-28-08, 11:46 AM	actually, i managed to finish work early, so my tactics are actually on time (already sent) :)
TelinArtho 03-28-08, 12:21 PM	Varjo (Stormwind) vs 9-headed Cryohydra (Unknown Monster) is up. As I suspected it was a very quick fight to run - but I was surprised at how close it was (I expected it to be decisive in one direction or another - not this close...)
whitebaron 03-28-08, 12:33 PM	@telin: you forgot to add gwerdans potion of invis in the fight summary. funny side notes: this was the second kineticist to lose due to energy adaptation:cold and faer of evasion... gwerdan fought this whole lvl 7 with his hitpoints to low. (i just noticed i seem to have not-adjusted it.) same thing happened to my lelenia not too long away... anyone want to be my character life accountant? *gg*
TelinArtho 03-28-08, 12:49 PM	Oops - also forgot a charge on the energy missile dorje for Felice. Done.
McJarvis 03-28-08, 12:51 PM	@telin: you forgot to add gwerdans potion of invis in the fight summary. funny side notes: this was the second kineticist to lose due to energy adaptation:cold and faer of evasion... gwerdan fought this whole lvl 7 with his hitpoints to low. (i just noticed i seem to have not-adjusted it.) same thing happened to my lelenia not too long away... anyone want to be my character life accountant? *gg* I did the same thing for thorell through all of ECL5. I had to triple-check when I updated his hp for ECL6, indeed- I had only added .5 hps betwene ECL4 and 5:) Strangely none of my opponents noticed this error ( ;) )
whitebaron 03-28-08, 12:52 PM	I did the same thing for thorell through all of ECL5. I had to triple-check when I updated his hp for ECL6, indeed- I had only added .5 hps betwene ECL4 and 5:) Strangely none of my opponents noticed this error ( ;) ) on the upside: it's very nice to suddenly have 15hp more with one monk level up. ;)
McJarvis 03-28-08, 12:57 PM	on the upside: it's very nice to suddenly have 15hp more with one monk level up. ;) Heh, yeah...it was like 10hp for a wizard level on my end :)
Stormwind 03-28-08, 01:53 PM	Varjo (Stormwind) vs 9-headed Cryohydra (Unknown Monster) is up. As I suspected it was a very quick fight to run - but I was surprised at how close it was (I expected it to be decisive in one direction or another - not this close...) Thanks for the run Telin. Fight looks pretty good. The only thing you missed was that while grappling, Käsi should move to within 50ft so that the hydra would be affected by her horrific appearance (as per tactics), but no need for an edit ;)
Turanson 03-28-08, 04:48 PM	Verren FireStarter (whitebaron) vs. Korwald Barandar (lonewolf) is up. As always if ther eis anything ever so small please let me know.
lonewolf 03-28-08, 05:37 PM	Verren FireStarter (whitebaron) vs. Korwald Barandar (lonewolf) is up. As always if ther eis anything ever so small please let me know. The only thing I see is that Breagor should be able to make one attack in round 2. If that attack misses Korwald loses, otherwise he wins.
Turanson 03-28-08, 05:45 PM	The only thing I see is that Breagor should be able to make one attack in round 2. If that attack misses Korwald loses, otherwise he wins. Right I'll just wait and see if Baron has anything to add and then I'll edit it sunday
lonewolf 03-29-08, 11:31 AM	Flutterthought vs The Dark One is up without rewards. @templer: looking at the Dragon I see one mistake: Bronze Dragons are immune to electricity and not fire. Considering his scroll of see invisibility(which completely annihilates my tactic), I dont think its gonna matter much, but well see.
templer10 03-29-08, 11:34 AM	Flutterthought vs The Dark One is up without rewards. @templer: looking at the Dragon I see one mistake: Bronze Dragons are immune to electricity and not fire. Considering his scroll of see invisibility(which completely annihilates my tactic), I dont think its gonna matter much, but well see. ah - didnt notice -ill skip this then. About dark one - dark one should have drun the PFE potion - it has priority over casting fly on gruul.
lonewolf 03-29-08, 12:24 PM	About dark one - dark one should have drun the PFE potion - it has priority over casting fly on gruul. I thought about that, but since there was no animal out at the time(Gruul had already killed the tiger) and you had no way of knowing wether Flutterthought was gonna get another animal out or not, I couldnt really let you drink that potion without metagaming.
templer10 03-29-08, 12:41 PM	I thought about that, but since there was no animal out at the time(Gruul had already killed the tiger) and you had no way of knowing wether Flutterthought was gonna get another animal out or not, I couldnt really let you drink that potion without metagaming. i beg to differ - flutter has a bag - dark one knows he can pop out many many animals, just one at the time, if he saw one animals it's extremly likely more will follow, it's not metagaming at all.
whitebaron 03-29-08, 06:20 PM	Right I'll just wait and see if Baron has anything to add and then I'll edit it sunday just roll the attack. :) everything else is fine by me, even though you missed the psionic shot this would not make much difference - i would not kill him in that first round anyway. just for the record: verrens point blank shot would give him an additional +1attack, +1damage on all ray attacks he did in this fight. ;)
Turanson 03-29-08, 06:38 PM	Luck is a cruel mistress Verren FireStarter (whitebaron) vs. Korwald Barandar (lonewolf) is up (again).
whitebaron 03-29-08, 06:44 PM	Luck is a cruel mistress Verren FireStarter (whitebaron) vs. Korwald Barandar (lonewolf) is up (again). ty for the run. but: this saved verren some pp - he used 4pp total. (force screen, 1 energy ray)
Turanson 03-29-08, 06:46 PM	ty for the run. but: this saved verren some pp - he used 4pp total. (force screen, 1 energy ray) Done
Callix 03-30-08, 07:13 AM	Gakhnalak vs 3 Fiendish Harpies is up. Way to buck the odds; those saves were over a 90% chance to end the fight before it began.
MindWandererB 03-30-08, 02:36 PM	Gakhnalak vs 3 Fiendish Harpies is up. Way to buck the odds; those saves were over a 90% chance to end the fight before it began. Wow. No kidding. Though under the circumstances it was kind of a bum deal to roll only one initiative check for all three harpies. I personally wouldn't say that every spell component pouch has every component for every spell under then sun--that pouch would have to be massive. But it all worked out.
SauroGrenom 03-30-08, 04:49 PM	Is there any chance that Sjiggie is going to post the Thiel's Retainers vs Eternal Dreamless Sleep fight from a few weeks ago? I saw 5 rounds (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=2443) in the roller, but there is yet to be any fight appear in the fights thread as far as I know.
Sjiggie 03-30-08, 05:02 PM	I was on vacation last week I just got back I have time for it tommorow and I'm off on thuesday so I will finish it. I just had limited internet acces on vacation. Sjiggie
whitebaron 03-30-08, 05:09 PM	ECL3: Presil, Lady of the Stones(MagicChoco) vs. Unknown Monster not much love for the lady, here... man... my dice hate players today... ECL4: S'lertak Ssilva(TelinArtho) vs. Unknown Monster
SauroGrenom 03-30-08, 11:18 PM	Kraegin vs Chameleon
TelinArtho 03-31-08, 01:01 AM	Thanks for the run Sauro.
TelinArtho 03-31-08, 01:09 AM	@whitebaron - I guess I don't have an issue with the fight with the current rules - but it does beg a question: When did we remove the rule that no single item for a monster can cost more than 50% of its total wealth? Full plate (1500gp) for a CR 2 monster (2000gp total cash) is a little more than I was expecting - but this was a rule, so I'm just curious when it was removed. EDIT: Actually - they do need to roll ML checks for those ML2 stones. Since that 4 AC could be a big difference - I would appreciate them added in.
Callix 03-31-08, 02:42 AM	Wow. No kidding. Though under the circumstances it was kind of a bum deal to roll only one initiative check for all three harpies. I personally wouldn't say that every spell component pouch has every component for every spell under then sun--that pouch would have to be massive. But it all worked out. I rolled initiative + saves as soon as I decided they couldn't afford +CHA items to save time. If he had've failed, I probably would've rolled the other two initiatives as needed. And a candle seems like the sort of thing no self-respecting wizard should ever be without; I was making a common-sense ruling, as the rules are not actually explicit on this point, and justifying it afterwards.
lonewolf 03-31-08, 06:19 AM	Kraegin vs Chameleon Once again I disagree with the way Torrent finds me here. The first time this tactic was used I won the fight anyway, so I didnt argue that long, but now I´d like to clear that up once and for all: During your movement or as part of a charge you can move through a square occupied by an opponent(see overrun page 157) Step 2: Opponent avoids? The defender has the option to simply avoid you. If he avoids you, he doesnt suffer any ill effect. Thats exactly what Torrent is doing. He uses overrun on The Chameleon even though he doesnt know where he is. The Chameleon avoid and thus suffers no ill effects. I dont know how much clearer the rules have to be here. EDIT: Also just for the record: Like McJarvis I dont think that Devils can ignore The Chameleons "Hide in Plain Sight". See discussion about this in the tavern. But I agree that this one is murkier and requires much more interpretation of the rules...
whitebaron 03-31-08, 06:32 AM	When did we remove the rule that no single item for a monster can cost more than 50% of its total wealth? Full plate (1500gp) for a CR 2 monster (2000gp total cash) is a little more than I was expecting - but this was a rule, so I'm just curious when it was removed. EDIT: Actually - they do need to roll ML checks for those ML2 stones. Since that 4 AC could be a big difference - I would appreciate them added in. about the rule: if it was in, that's way ago. it was never in the rules since i am around. i figured having a high AC when having to deal with low HPs would be just fine. thus the fullplate and vigor powers. - be glad i completely missed their large build. ;) about the checks: 1d20+1 vs ML2 = auto-succeed. about hiding: since the coco houserule states that if you have no cover or concealment, you are autospotted, the HiPS class feature is problematic on itself. imo, if one can ignore shadows, he can completely ignore the HiPS class feature. About the Devils See in Darkness, though: I belive this to be a relict of 3e. It is worded like deeper darkness would grant you total concealment - actually, this is nothing that's in the game anymore. darkness always only gives 20%.
Salrantol 03-31-08, 07:42 AM	Once again I disagree with the way Torrent finds me here. The first time this tactic was used I won the fight anyway, so I didnt argue that long, but now I´d like to clear that up once and for all: Thats exactly what Torrent is doing. He uses overrun on The Chameleon even though he doesnt know where he is. The Chameleon avoid and thus suffers no ill effects. I dont know how much clearer the rules have to be here.lonewolf is undoubtedly right here. There's no way to find someone by just moving through there square unless they are immobile for whatever reason.EDIT: Also just for the record: Like McJarvis I dont think that Devils can ignore The Chameleons "Hide in Plain Sight". See discussion about this in the tavern. But I agree that this one is murkier and requires much more interpretation of the rules...This one I disagree with. However, the rules could be read either way, so it's either going to be pitlord discretion or need an "official" Clarification.
SauroGrenom 03-31-08, 08:08 AM	Thats exactly what Torrent is doing. He uses overrun on The Chameleon even though he doesnt know where he is. The Chameleon avoid and thus suffers no ill effects. I dont know how much clearer the rules have to be here. EDIT: Also just for the record: Like McJarvis I dont think that Devils can ignore The Chameleons "Hide in Plain Sight". See discussion about this in the tavern. But I agree that this one is murkier and requires much more interpretation of the rules... Ok. An overrun is a special kind of standard action, and it's not what's happening here for lots of reasons. What is happening here is that Tornado is using the fact that members of opposing teams cannot occupy the same space. He simply uses two move actions to occupy all available spaces and searches for the space he is not allowed to occupy. That's it. No overrun, not standard actions of any kind involved. Also I did have Chameleon hide inside the mist, and all attacks suffered the miss chance. Anyway you had the conditional in your tactics, so you obviously expected this. For me it's clear that even with HiPs, you need a shadow or other kind of "concealment" nearby. The HiPS allows you to hide while being actively observed, it doesn't lift the requirement to have a source of concealment nearby. Under normal conditions with HiPs the nearby "shadow" grants the necessary concealment to hide. If you foes can see into the shadows with no penalty, then those shadows don't grant the necessary concealment to allow you to hide. Anyway that's how I see it, I suppose we can argue about it in the court.
lonewolf 03-31-08, 08:21 AM	Ok. An overrun is a special kind of standard action, and it's not what's happening here for lots of reasons. What is happening here is that Tornado is using the fact that members of opposing teams cannot occupy the same space. He simply uses two move actions to occupy all available spaces and searches for the space he is not allowed to occupy. That's it. No overrun, not standard actions of any kind involved. But the thing is: He is allowed to enter my square. If The Chameleon doesnt resist Overrun doesnt even take a standard action. What your saying is that Tornade tries to overrun me without using the overrun action. I cant even start to describe how little sense this makes to me... Also I did have Chameleon hide inside the mist, and all attacks suffered the miss chance. Anyway you had the conditional in your tactics, so you obviously expected this. For me it's clear that even with HiPs, you need a shadow or other kind of "concealment" nearby. The HiPS allows you to hide while being actively observed, it doesn't lift the requirement to have a source of concealment nearby. Under normal conditions with HiPs the nearby "shadow" grants the necessary concealment to hide. If you foes can see into the shadows with no penalty, then those shadows don't grant the necessary concealment to allow you to hide. Anyway that's how I see it, I suppose we can argue about it in the court. This is a second issue(that I tried to clear up before the fight btw). I acknowledge that valid arguments can be made for both sides here, sothis should go to the Court.
McJarvis 03-31-08, 08:37 AM	What is happening here is that Tornado is using the fact that members of opposing teams cannot occupy the same space. He simply uses two move actions to occupy all available spaces and searches for the space he is not allowed to occupy. That's it. No overrun, not standard actions of any kind involved. I did not read the specifics of the situations- but in order for this to work the detecting creature has to have a way to detect his enemy while they are in the same square. (like scent) Else, rules like these would be obsolete: A creature can grope about to find an invisible creature. A character can make a touch attack with his hands or a weapon into two adjacent 5-foot squares using a standard action. If an invisible target is in the designated area, there is a 50% miss chance on the touch attack. If successful, the groping character deals no damage but has successfully pinpointed the invisible creature’s current location. (If the invisible creature moves, its location, obviously, is once again unknown.) If you could just move max-speed & detect an invisible creature's square b/c you couldn't enter it, why would you use this action ever? You could just try to move into the two squares(and get stopped if an invisible creature was there) using a move action, and still have all your movement left. @lonewolf: What sauro is looking at are these rules Friend: You can move through a square occupied by a friendly character, unless you are charging. When you move through a square occupied by a friendly character, that character doesn’t provide you with cover. Opponent: You can’t move through a square occupied by an opponent, unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. (Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.) The problem is, of course, these rules do not take into account the situation of "an opponent wants you to move through his square".
lonewolf 03-31-08, 08:44 AM	thanks McJarvis. I remembered a rule like this, but couldnt find it. I think this proves my point even more.
lonewolf 03-31-08, 09:13 AM	I found something else: Square occupied by a creature three sizes larger or smaller: Any creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger or smaller than he is. The Chameleon is Tiny while Torrent is Large => Another clear reason why movement is possible.
CrazyArtificer 03-31-08, 10:02 AM	Mineau vs Thorell (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15481311&postcount=1880)is up Better check if the enemy gets some resistance, before trying to burn him to death :)
McJarvis 03-31-08, 10:07 AM	Mineau vs Thorell (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15481311&postcount=1880)is up Better check if the enemy gets some resistance, before trying to burn him to death :) Only prob with the fight doesn't require an edit- Thorell shared all spells with spitter, so spitter gets res(fire) as well. Otherwise, thanks for the run.
Turanson 03-31-08, 02:59 PM	Mineau vs Thorell (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15481311&postcount=1880)is up Better check if the enemy gets some resistance, before trying to burn him to death :) Thanks for the run Crazy well I so have a tendency to overlook Thorells Expendable Items so nothing has change
whitebaron 03-31-08, 03:40 PM	Sunstroke vs. Lucifer is up.
Turanson 03-31-08, 04:18 PM	Hey Crazy I just saw one thing in the fight well not in the fight but you did miss that Mineau used a Mage armor In the Results and Rewards
SauroGrenom 03-31-08, 04:50 PM	If you could just move max-speed & detect an invisible creature's square b/c you couldn't enter it, why would you use this action ever? You could just try to move into the two squares(and get stopped if an invisible creature was there) using a move action, and still have all your movement left.Well groping does have it's role. Say you don't want to move, or cannot move into the adjacent squares, then Grope is the way to go. For example, a foe may be invisible flying nearby, and you Grope because you cannot move into that square. It has it's role in particular situations. The bit about "movement through a square" is the basis for validity of the movement search pattern. It doesn't matter if the opponent wants you to move through their square, the rules don't describe any mechanic for that making a difference. That bit that lonewolf dug up about three sizes different is something I've never seen before. If that's true, then the search technique won't work in this case, for that reason only. But a medium size searcher would find Chameleon just fine. I'll edit that into the fight, but I'll also have to correct the issue where Chameleon cannot climb or move with anything in hand. So she's going to need to cast and stow her bow and get hit with 5 full attacks before she can move and hide. Also it's highly unlikely to change the outcomes, since hiding in the mist allows you to be located within the area of a dispel, and Kraegin will just move his friends out, cast an area dispel to take down your mist, and send them back in again.
whitebaron 03-31-08, 05:15 PM	@sauro: i believe you are very wrong on that interpretation. who's your enemy or who not, relies solely on perception of the character, not game mechanics. so chameleon is perfectly fine to let anyone through his square, even if its NOT a teammate. it has nothing to do with overrun or the likes. the reason behind the rule with the squares, is to avoid people saving on movement by going through opposed squares. such a search technique should always fail, since the one hiding/invis would simply avoid standing in the way. and: ECL3: Volley(MagicChoco) vs. Jozan Serevas(Vasja) is up. seems it is no ladies night tonight...
lonewolf 03-31-08, 05:30 PM	The bit about "movement through a square" is the basis for validity of the movement search pattern. It doesn't matter if the opponent wants you to move through their square, the rules don't describe any mechanic for that making a difference. Yes it does. It is called Overrun. I quote again: During your movement or as part of a charge you can move through a square occupied by an opponent(see overrun page 157) It says here very clearly that you CAN MOVE THROUGH AN OPPONENTS SQUARE and the rules mechanics for this kind of situations are Overrun. There is also a rule section about how to find invisible enemies(groping squares). If it was possible to find invisible enemies by moving around and checking which square you cant enter, dont you think that they put that into that section? I'll edit that into the fight, but I'll also have to correct the issue where Chameleon cannot climb or move with anything in hand. So she's going to need to cast and stow her bow and get hit with 5 full attacks before she can move and hide. Also it's highly unlikely to change the outcomes, since hiding in the mist allows you to be located within the area of a dispel, and Kraegin will just move his friends out, cast an area dispel to take down your mist, and send them back in again. Actually, she can cast, stow the bow, hide(hiding is NOT an action) and 5ft step. Then those Devils dont even know in which square I am in. Moving out the summons and using an area dispel to get rid of the Obscuring mist is some pretty large improvisation for Kraegin IMHO but thats your call. Note that The Chameleon still has another 1st lvl spell slot and a 2nd lvl slot to refresh obscuring mist if necessary. On the Spider Climb issue: You are absolutely correct on that one, but several of The Chameleons fights were run without this correct ruling. Pitlords, enemies and I myself didnt notice that Spider Climb work differnetly. I need another solution for this one in the future.
McJarvis 03-31-08, 05:33 PM	[sarcasm] The sarcasm does not help, that it does not.
lonewolf 03-31-08, 05:38 PM	The sarcasm does not help, that it does not. right, I got carried away *removed*
TelinArtho 03-31-08, 05:43 PM	@lonewolf - Sauro apparently didn't include my second PM for dealing with the area effects (it was in response to the few posts we had in the tavern) - and from that - it is not a very large stretch for him to include it. On the rest of the issues - I have seen the tactic used for moving throughout to narrow down locations before - and I know some of the previous times that the way Sauro is doing it is the way it was done. That said - I can't vouch for it being correct either. That said - Sauro doesn't have the hide/MS/spot/listen checks in there - which might negate all of this conversation to begin with...
whitebaron 03-31-08, 05:44 PM	On the Spider Climb issue: You are absolutely correct on that one, but several of The Chameleons fights were run without this correct ruling. Pitlords, enemies and I myself didnt notice that Spider Climb work differnetly. I need another solution for this one in the future. well, this affects other players as well. a good share of wizards (at least snaga) try to do things from walls while spiderclimbing. ;) @telin: this search pattern would basically render the search-matrix we have for spot or listen useless. since you could just move some squares, instead of actively spotting/listening => the faster you are, the better it gets. take a blindfold and try it - you won't be able to find one of your kids in your path unless they want it.
McJarvis 03-31-08, 05:49 PM	@lonewolf - Sauro apparently didn't include my second PM for dealing with the area effects (it was in response to the few posts we had in the tavern) - and from that - it is not a very large stretch for him to include it. On the rest of the issues - I have seen the tactic used for moving throughout to narrow down locations before - and I know some of the previous times that the way Sauro is doing it is the way it was done. That said - I can't vouch for it being correct either. That said - Sauro doesn't have the hide/MS/spot/listen checks in there - which might negate all of this conversation to begin with... I believe there has been a dichotomy in regards to this. The reason I took an interest in this is because Sauro's way is the exact opposite of everything I've seen in the arena. When I first started pitlording here years ago I tried to find an invisible summoner using this method, and was told[by the pitlord] I couldn't for the reasons lonewolf is pointing out.
SauroGrenom 03-31-08, 05:50 PM	Overrun is a standard action. It's a special attack mode that uses a standard action to enter an opponent's square and push them or otherwise move them. A character who's simply moving through a square is not performing an overrun. Think of it like this... say you're walking along, and bump into a wall of force. The wall of force is invisible, and it blocks your movement, but you know that an invisible something just stopped you from entering the next square. Your argument is that I just tried to perform an overrun on the wall of force, but in fact the character was moving and unaware of a prohibition that stops you from entering a square. The move action aborts at the moment when you're trying to enter a square where normal movement isn't allowed. The moving character doesn't need awareness of the "blockade" in advance to be stopped by it. Performing an overrun requires a standard action executed against a target, and unless the moving character is using a standard action to perform an overrun, then the overrun rules don't apply. PS. I didn't include the skill rolls early on, well because at the time Chameleon is casting early on Kraegin wasn't interested in locating where Chameleon was. He needed to know where she was after he finishes his summonings. By the time that Kraegin was finished summoning, Chameleon was also not making any noise casting (manifesting instead) and the hide checks for her are so high that it's pointless to roll them unless she's sniping. The rolls could have been important in the end, but again only when she was casting to raise the mist spells, since her MS is more than 20 points higher than the listen check modifiers.
McJarvis 03-31-08, 05:53 PM	Your argument is that I just tried to perform an overrun on the wall of force, bad example. Designated Exceptions: Some creatures break the above rules. A creature that completely fills the squares it occupies cannot be moved past, even with the Tumble skill or similar special abilities. A wall of force would fall under this category, even though it's not a creature. If you want to use "real-life" examples, howabout this- suppose a gargantuan creature is invisible and in negative hitpoints. Your method could not locate the creature since it is "helpless" and this is the only exclusion. The gargantuan creature isn't "completely filling up it's squares" either. All the same- I think the letter of law would be better to follow than "common sense" here, since the rules are nice and black and white. I would support Sauro on this, unless we want to house-rule it because those invisibility rules seem to imply otherwise. rules as written- you can't move through an enemies' square unless the enemy is helpless.
Turanson 03-31-08, 05:55 PM	well, this affects other players as well. a good share of wizards (at least snaga) try to do things from walls while spiderclimbing. ;) well snaga it using Slippers of Spider Climbing: When worn, a pair of these slippers enable movement on vertical surfaces or even upside down along ceilings, leaving the wearer’s hands free. Her speed is 20 feet. Severely slippery surfaces—icy, oiled, or greased surfaces— make these slippers useless. The slippers can be used for 10 minutes per day, split up as the wearer chooses. so he can still climb and shoot/cast whatever.
whitebaron 03-31-08, 05:56 PM	@sauro: a character is not a solid barricade, heck, it does not even contain its whole space.(at least i don't feel like i'm 5ftx5ftx5ft big) the whole point (as pointed out above by me) of this rule is just to prevent abuses of movement rules, and to justify e.g. guards blocking entrances etc. if you enter a square by someone who lets you, you can pass at full speed. as i already said, it depends on the perception of the one letting you through. if he wants you to, you can pass through at full speed(as allies usually do) => NO WAY to find anyone like that.
lonewolf 03-31-08, 06:03 PM	Overrun is a standard action. Wrong. Overrun requires only a standard action if your target resists. Step 2: Opponent Avoids? The defender has the option to simply avoid you. If he avoids you, he doesn’t suffer any ill effect and you may keep moving (You can always move through a square occupied by someone who lets you by.) The overrun attempt doesn’t count against your actions this round (except for any movement required to enter the opponent’s square). If your opponent doesn’t avoid you, move to Step 3.
SauroGrenom 03-31-08, 06:09 PM	The example of the wall of force is simply to be any game mechanic which blocks movement, but the moving character is unaware of the blockade till it's already stopped them. Whether you can move through an occupied square is dependent only on whether that square is occupied by an ally or non-ally. That's it. It doesn't matter what you think the purpose of the rule was, that's open to interpretation by anyone. What matters is that the rules explicitly say you cannot move through a square occupied by an enemy unless the enemy is helpless. This fact is only usable to locate a hidden guy in situations where the possible locations are a limited area, and there is a relatively large amount of total movement available to search the area.
SauroGrenom 03-31-08, 06:12 PM	Wrong. Overrun requires only a standard action if your target resists. Overrun is a decision declared by the moving character. Telin's character's actions are not decided by the target of the actions. The overrun rules don't apply unless Telin's character is trying to overrun. That's not what's happening here. What's happening here is that Telin's character is trying to move, and bumps into a square where his presence is illegal. He therefore knows that the offending square is occupied by an invisible barrier or unseen non-ally. If you attack my shield wielding character, I cannot decide that your attack is now a sunder attempt instead. Likewise I cannot decide that your sunder attempt against my shield is changed to an attack because I decide that I won't make an opposed attack roll.
whitebaron 03-31-08, 06:21 PM	That's not what's happening here. What's happening here is that Telin's character is trying to move, and bumps into a square where his presence is illegal. ahem.... quoting the important part of overrun one last time: You can always move through a square occupied by someone who lets you by. why would the presence there then be ILLEGAL?
lonewolf 03-31-08, 06:22 PM	What matters is that the rules explicitly say you cannot move through a square occupied by an enemy unless the enemy is helpless. Sorry, but I gotta ask: Do you actually read what I write? The rules state that you cannot move through a square occupied by an enemy unless the enemy is helpless. Directly following that section they provide a few exceptions like the section about overrun, tumbling through an enemy and the section about the three size categories issue. There is a general rule and some exceptions to it and you just cling to the general rule while closing your eyes to the exceptions and pretend that as long as you dont see them they dont exist. Since this is not affecting this fight anymore(because of the three size category issue which you accept), Im taking it to the Courtroom.
SauroGrenom 03-31-08, 06:33 PM	ahem.... quoting the important part of overrun one last time: why would the presence there then be ILLEGAL? One more time... Overrun doesn't apply at all, because overrun is a type of action declared by the character performing it. Telin's characters must attempt an overrun in order for anything in the overrun description to matter in the way that action is resolved. In this case Telin's characters are simply using move actions of the standard type, and those are not overrun actions at all. Your deciding that treating those move actions like an overrun action is beneficial to your character has no bearing on the matter. Only Telin can decide if his characters are performing an overrun, and there's no good reason for him to do that, so those overrun rules and contingencies don't apply.
whitebaron 03-31-08, 06:44 PM	this might be mentioned in the entry of overrun, but it is a general rule: You can always move through a square occupied by someone who lets you by. declaring chameleon as unwilling to let someone who is searching him pass, is the same as declaring the others make overruns (which they aren't, and which was never my line of argumentation after all - it just happens that the overrun section contains one crucial ruling for all that.) so, one more time, from me again: you can chose whether you let someone pass or not. chameleon being in their path renders their movement not invalid, unless he decides to block. (he could not even if he wanted to, due to size, but thats an entire different matter - this would be the same for a larger creature as well). you don't even incur movement penalties for moving through an occupied square....
McJarvis 03-31-08, 10:12 PM	gradak vs hunter is up. crits suck- especially when they get shared to your psicrystal before vigor is up.
dulsi 03-31-08, 10:20 PM	Mekhoar vs. Nodens is up. I had Mekhoar fire without psionic shot once. Realized that Mekhoar can't possibly win and started focusing. Even if the non-psi shot hit with psi shot, he cannot do enough damage to kill Nodens and Nodens will still kill him before he can get another psi shot.
McJarvis 03-31-08, 11:05 PM	Lelenia vs Ralein is up.
Salrantol 03-31-08, 11:08 PM	gradak vs hunter is up. crits suck- especially when they get shared to your psicrystal before vigor is up.I still contest the idea that the Ambush package or winning initiative allows hiding on the Plains, the whole point of which is to have a map on which you can't hide.
McJarvis 03-31-08, 11:15 PM	I still contest the idea that the Ambush package or winning initiative allows hiding on the Plains, the whole point of which is to have a map on which you can't hide. was this already discussed? I didn't check the last FotW thread for comments on this fight.
McJarvis 03-31-08, 11:36 PM	Petyr vs Berri is up. 3 crit misses, then 1 massive critical that could have felled someone 2 ECL's higher than berri. What a lame fight :) @telin: for what it's worth, I like the combo. those crit misses really sucked away your turn attempts tho..
TelinArtho 04-01-08, 01:20 AM	@mcj - looks fine to me - but I don't understand the comment in round 5 stating 2 turn attempts used.
Callix 04-01-08, 04:07 AM	Lelenia vs Ralein is up. Petyr vs Berri is up. 3 crit misses, then 1 massive critical that could have felled someone 2 ECL's higher than berri. What a lame fight :) @telin: for what it's worth, I like the combo. those crit misses really sucked away your turn attempts tho.. Thanks for both runs. Ralein keeps getting hosed by invisibility. I wonder why... Petyr has that uber-damage potential. It's just lucky when it happens.
Turanson 04-01-08, 04:08 AM	Mekhoar vs. Nodens is up. I had Mekhoar fire without psionic shot once. Realized that Mekhoar can't possibly win and started focusing. Even if the non-psi shot hit with psi shot, he cannot do enough damage to kill Nodens and Nodens will still kill him before he can get another psi shot. Thanks for the run dulsi
Sjiggie 04-01-08, 06:17 AM	gradak vs hunter is up. crits suck- especially when they get shared to your psicrystal before vigor is up. Thanks for the run. I still contest the idea that the Ambush package or winning initiative allows hiding on the Plains, the whole point of which is to have a map on which you can't hide. Well that was the whole point of the surprise round to me. You need cover or concealment to hide (Offered by the hedge around the starting square) and you can't be observed while hiding. The surprise round is determined because of awareness. So if I have a surprise round you're not aware of me so you can't observe thus I can hide. The Surprise Round If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin.
whitebaron 04-01-08, 06:30 AM	Lelenia vs Ralein is up. thnx for the run. no need to change anything, the movement might not have been optimal, but well - no need to win without drawing blood - the gladius healers are good enough. ;) in the rewards, please look for PC and discount. @callix: i know it's lame, but well... you should have seen her tactics in tabletop. ;)
whitebaron 04-01-08, 06:33 AM	I still contest the idea that the Ambush package or winning initiative allows hiding on the Plains, the whole point of which is to have a map on which you can't hide. basically, winning initiative does not allow you to hide. everyone is already aware of the fight to start. still, you are counted as flat-footed if you lost initiative and it was not your turn yet - which means your awareness/perception is slower than the one of your opponent. => why should you not be allowed to hide?
lonewolf 04-01-08, 07:28 AM	First part of Owen vs sphinx covey is up. I gotta run now and will finish it this evening. Looks pretty good for you at the moment. tell me if you´ve got any issues.
McJarvis 04-01-08, 08:35 AM	@mcj - looks fine to me - but I don't understand the comment in round 5 stating 2 turn attempts used. I was very tired when I did the fight, and was thinking smite evil worked off turning attempts. oops. :embarrass
Erithmu 04-01-08, 09:37 AM	First part of Owen vs sphinx covey is up. I gotta run now and will finish it this evening. Looks pretty good for you at the moment. tell me if you´ve got any issues.Looks good so far, All my comments would be outside the scope of my tactics ... which means I have none ... :)
whitebaron 04-01-08, 10:39 AM	@telin: i now rolled slertak's ML-Checks, and both PW passed them. it was brought to my attention that a natural 1 was indeed, a failure on powerstones. did not know that. please bring the other issue on overcostly equipment to the courtroom if you feel this need so to be resolved (though i think this could wait for 4e as well).
MagicChoco 04-01-08, 10:39 AM	ECL3: Presil, Lady of the Stones(MagicChoco) vs. Unknown Monster not much love for the lady, here... man... my dice hate players today... ECL4: S'lertak Ssilva(TelinArtho) vs. Unknown Monster Thankee for the runs. The only thing I noticed was that Presil has point blank shot to add a damage during one round, but that really makes no difference at all.
McJarvis 04-01-08, 10:51 AM	all rewards posted.
lonewolf 04-01-08, 12:06 PM	Owen vs Sphinx covey is finished. Rewards will be up later today
TelinArtho 04-01-08, 12:18 PM	@telin: i now rolled slertak's ML-Checks, and both PW passed them. it was brought to my attention that a natural 1 was indeed, a failure on powerstones. did not know that. please bring the other issue on overcostly equipment to the courtroom if you feel this need so to be resolved (though i think this could wait for 4e as well). A Natural 1 on a ML check is not an automatic failure - if you are equal or higher level than the level on the expendable - you do not need to make the ML check at all. The reason why you have to make the check is that ML checks (and CL checks) are versus the ML/CL of the item PLUS 1: If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers. Anyway - I'll bring up the issue of the equipment in the council shortly.
Erithmu 04-01-08, 01:32 PM	Owen vs Sphinx covey is finished. Rewards will be up later today No issues ... that matter (Never saw any of the sphinxes cast Daylight ...)
lonewolf 04-01-08, 01:39 PM	No issues ... that matter (Never saw any of the sphinxes cast Daylight ...) It was a prebuff from the Halfcelestial one which can do it at will.
Erithmu 04-01-08, 02:44 PM	@Lonewolf: one minor fix ... False life is a personal range spell so it should be on Nest not Owen. Edit: Can I begin editing?
lonewolf 04-01-08, 03:13 PM	yes. rewards are up EDIT: at least im trying to update the post... Is it just me or is the board a bit buggy today?
Erithmu 04-01-08, 08:27 PM	@Lonewolf couple of quick ongoing things for Owen Owen: See Invis <3hrs Nest: see Invis <2hrs
lonewolf 04-02-08, 02:17 AM	@Lonewolf couple of quick ongoing things for Owen Owen: See Invis <3hrs Nest: see Invis <2hrs fixed
Callix 04-02-08, 03:10 AM	all rewards posted. One thing: Petyr's free action was not crafting for gold, but crafting 1000 gp worth of firearms supplies (1 barrel gunpowder, 500 bullets, 4 bombs). Since his stockpile is down below 10 bullets otherwise, it needs to be fixed. EDIT: Also, Petyr is missing some bonuses in the roller. Doesn't change the fight, but his attack bonus is 11 (+5 Dex, +3 BAB, +1 Enhancement, +1 Insight, +1 PBS). The focus shot misses by a measly 3, but that's D&D.
Salrantol 04-02-08, 08:31 AM	But that gives me another rules question: While the ogre is in dwarf from, does Bulgar keep his +4 dodge vs giants. Rules wise, with change shape it keeps the type of it's origional form, so should Bulgar have been getting a dodge bonus this whole time? If he doesn't keep the dodge bonus, then the crit this round confrims (doing more dmg that it did in large ogre form... >.< )The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form.+4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type.The entire time, an ogre mage is a Giant, so the entire time, Bulgar gets the dodge bonus.
McJarvis 04-02-08, 09:40 AM	One thing: Petyr's free action was not crafting for gold, but crafting 1000 gp worth of firearms supplies (1 barrel gunpowder, 500 bullets, 4 bombs). Since his stockpile is down below 10 bullets otherwise, it needs to be fixed. EDIT: Also, Petyr is missing some bonuses in the roller. Doesn't change the fight, but his attack bonus is 11 (+5 Dex, +3 BAB, +1 Enhancement, +1 Insight, +1 PBS). The focus shot misses by a measly 3, but that's D&D. Fixed
Erithmu 04-02-08, 10:18 AM	@Sjiggie: Rewards are off for TLR vs TEDS fight ... should be 1800/2000 base since we are 6th lvl characters. That and the ally penalty should be divided between the characters. The rules for all this is here at the bottom. That and I suspect that T10 and hogarth will have some comments about the fight so it probably is held over another week. You still doing ok after the car thing?
hogarth 04-06-08, 08:41 PM	@Sjiggie: Rewards are off for TLR vs TEDS fight ... should be 1800/2000 base since we are 6th lvl characters. That and the ally penalty should be divided between the characters. The rules for all this is here at the bottom. That and I suspect that T10 and hogarth will have some comments about the fight so it probably is held over another week. I don't have any problem with it -- the dire wolf was just faster than we anticipated. I'll let templer10 add any comments he has.