Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Huan 07-27-05, 04:04 PM	Welcome to this week of the COre COliseum! This thread is for questions, comments, and concerns solely regarding the pairings, quests, and campaigns for this week. Please keep manners and a calm, understanding mind with you at all times... even if it's not your own. The rules of the COCO can be found here: Rules of Gladius (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448520&origin=) Have fun, be nice, and RP whenever possible. I suppose someone had to do it...
Huan 07-27-05, 04:06 PM	Prepare to stop editing your sheets in an hour.
Huan 07-27-05, 04:26 PM	...
nightbanegod 07-27-05, 04:47 PM	a question on the time that one can nolonger edit their character... which timezone is this and what does it translate into for the central (US)GMT-06:00 time zone?
TelinArtho 07-27-05, 04:54 PM	Well it is 5pm Eastern, so if you are in Central (1 hour) it would be 4pm, Mountain (2 hours) it would be 3pm and Pacific (3 hours) it would be 2pm. I'm not sure how this is affected by daylight savings and such though.
KerlanRayne 07-27-05, 04:56 PM	a question on the time that one can nolonger edit their character... which timezone is this and what does it translate into for the central (US)GMT-06:00 time zone?Well the deadline is 9 pm GMT. Since your timezone is GMT -6 then 9-6 = 3pm. So the deadline in your timezone is 3pm. KerlanRayne
MystErikEry 07-27-05, 05:01 PM	Does that mean it's past, an hour ago? I'm PST here, and it's 2:00, which means 10:00 pm GMT... which is an hour past 9:00 pm GMT...
TelinArtho 07-27-05, 05:09 PM	Nope its screwed up because of daylight savings time - the deadline just passed a few minutes ago - so 2pm is 9pm there. However, after the fall back that will change...
MystErikEry 07-27-05, 05:11 PM	Oh dear. DST does make things weirder. And I was considering changing my Eschew Materials feat into something else XD Actually, nah, I really like it for flavor and "just in case". Plus, it's good for campaigning and stuff.
Sunwolf 07-27-05, 05:17 PM	I just set my time on the boards to be GMT and I don't have to worry about it -- 9PM GMT.
nightbanegod 07-27-05, 05:19 PM	HA ... keep your eschew materials...when you fail your enchantment save your doomed anyways ... regardless if you need supplies or not and i got 10:36 GMT here.... its iritating that even if i get off work at a reasonable time i still dont have last minute changes time... ARG where are the pairings? ... im giddy
Zerone 07-27-05, 05:30 PM	ARG where are the pairings? ... im giddy One small note that goes out to everyone... It takes the Pitlords 3 hours or so to do the pairings. Without this person, Caterane, the CoCo would be in trouble. Please be patient. Thank you, *•. Z
nightbanegod 07-27-05, 05:38 PM	:( .... ohh the wait... but alas... i shall wait nonetheless .... :(
Altaris13 07-27-05, 05:39 PM	ALL HAIL CATERANE! :bow: :bow: :bow: *prays he won't be stuck fighting another one-shot kill manifest/caster* Please? :bigeyes: :angelhide
MystErikEry 07-27-05, 05:47 PM	*prays he won't be stuck fighting another one-shot kill manifest/caster* I hope you're put up against my Rumplebucket and his DC 17 Sleep spells.
Gonbow 07-27-05, 05:50 PM	<rubs his chin> So, praying to Caterane is vogue now eh? Hmmm, what to pray for.. Non-invisible casters? If there be such a thing, most of my characters could kill it :P
nightbanegod 07-27-05, 05:53 PM	i could care less if enemy casters are invisible against my lovely Dalamar... hes got see invisibility scrolls!!... try finding THAT in a potion...
SoulLord 07-27-05, 05:59 PM	* have record of recent fights gladiators & pitlords * note gladiators by user * scan all characters for ready for <date> * match gladiators to requested ecl asked. * Roll pairings. if result assigns a pitlord to something he'd rather not run roll again. sounds complicated......... *starts to ponder how many credits would a program that does the pairings would be worth*
Mind Rogue 07-27-05, 06:56 PM	ALL HAIL CATERANE! :bow: :bow: :bow: *prays he won't be stuck fighting another one-shot kill manifest/caster* Please? :bigeyes: :angelhide Oh, so you've been a victim of Farfinar and his Wild-Surged, Greater-Psionic-Endowment Mind Thrust? @ SoulLord And to think I wasn't even thinking of credits when the thought crossed my mind. Now I understand that you don't want any player having their own characters duel, you have to check that everyone was ready in time, and that nobody wants to fight outside of their league, but what's the first part have to do with anything? Are the rolls set up so that you never face off against your most recent opponent. If so, that would ... complicate things.
Pitlords 07-27-05, 07:08 PM	PAIRINGS DONE I'll post the rest tomorow (credits, rules on FFA, comments, weekly rants, etc). Going to bed now. :zzz: PS: For Questlords: Please update your Questlogs. I'll use that as a reference from now on. Thanks.
Sindorin 07-27-05, 07:35 PM	Sorry that I have been slacking on my duties as the official fotw thread opener. I seriously was at work all day long today.
Huan 07-27-05, 08:25 PM	@All I'm sorry to all my pitlorded players for not getting a story from me. I am under a serious workload here, but thankfully it will all be completed by this weekend (I hate it when I get ideas, but don't get the time to write them down)... It looks like I am not pitlording this week, but I can be ready in case someone drops. @Sindorin It's cool... I always wanted to open this thread at least once, anyway. ;)
nightbanegod 07-27-05, 08:32 PM	@ TCB just getting the word out about my 2 discrepencies with the expendable items of niobe proudfoot:"elixer of vision" = 7th lvl wiz spell, "potion of divine favor" = personal range spell :noway: @ Kaigan tactics for boris sent in *snicker snicker* .... like theres really tactics between a half elf figher and a half giant fighter....
Prince FyreDragon 07-27-05, 09:13 PM	@ Erithmu Tactics for Preia Sterle sent via PM @ Gonbow Tactics for Elb Foraker sent via PM
TelinArtho 07-27-05, 09:29 PM	@Zerone - tactics for Daeren Stronghammer sent @Guardian Angel - tactics for Kraegin sent @Malither76 - tactics for Ambellon the Calm sent /d
TelinArtho 07-27-05, 09:32 PM	@Zerone - how would you like to do the miniquest - as an arena type fight with a story or as a separate thread? I can do either one.
Deadly Assassin 07-27-05, 09:43 PM	Good luck, LL.
Zerone 07-27-05, 09:58 PM	@Zerone - how would you like to do the miniquest - as an arena type fight with a story or as a separate thread? I can do either one. I just sent you tactics... :D I'll send you some of Saya's characteristics in a few minutes, and you can write a story if you wish... :) Tactics Sent: The Battle Maiden, Saya to TelinArtho via PM Tactics Received: Daeren Stronghammer (TelinArtho) Tactics Not Received: Sola Nicous (Erithmu) Mugen (Meek Head) *•. Z
Luni 07-27-05, 09:59 PM	@JH316: Tactics sent. Are githzerai humanoids or outsiders?
Sunwolf 07-27-05, 10:04 PM	@Luni Tactics for Brilf sent by PM.
Gonbow 07-27-05, 10:50 PM	@Prince FyreDragon Tactics Received. @Luni Humanoids, with or without the extraplanar subtype, depending on where they were born. For simplicity, Santos doesn't have the extraplanar subtype, unless an elder would like to rule otherwise. @Jh316 Tactics for Santos sent. I have a feeling Santos uber power level is about to be broken in half ^_^ Death touch = Ouch. At least there is a -4 to attack someone with a weapon during a grapple... my only saving grace :P
King Uther 07-28-05, 12:22 AM	@Pittbull Do you need new tactics, or are my old ones I sent Iced fine?
Erithmu 07-28-05, 12:36 AM	Tactics Sent: @ Gonbow: Loddick ... (sorry) @ Zerone: Sola ... carry on Tactics Received: Preia Sterle (Prince FyreDragon) ... understood Tactics Not Received Zahrat Sunbeam (Mind Rogue)
GuardianAngel 07-28-05, 12:45 AM	@ mcjarvis (sorry if spelled it wrong) Tatics sent for both Atreyu and Dragnal may nature and Hextor have mercy with the Dice.
TCB 07-28-05, 01:16 AM	@ Mind-Rogue, Tatics for Rebecca Sent. @ Nightbanggod, I told you what I am going to do. Her character can't use the Divine Favor potion as far as her tatics are wating then will run battle but cant gaurntee it will be by friday its my first Pitlording so i want it down right.
MystErikEry 07-28-05, 01:49 AM	@ Mind Rogue, tactics for Rumplebucket sent via PM.
LLMadCow 07-28-05, 02:53 AM	@SoulLord & Xanadu: I have briefly looked at all of my opponents. If you have received tactics from people quickly and request my tactics quickly as well, please let me know, otherwise I will likely submit them sometime Friday night. Is it okay with you guys if I send tactics via PM? I'll double check the threads to see if you have specified, but at this point, I prefer sticking with PM.
Pittbull 07-28-05, 03:46 AM	@Pittbull Do you need new tactics, or are my old ones I sent Iced fine? Yes ,you can send them to me! I'm pretty sure that Jindl won't send any tactic. Perhaps Iced has one? I not sure if I should run the fight, because Jindl said he wanted to take a break. @Pitlord: ?
Pitlords 07-28-05, 04:21 AM	Ok, here are the missing things along with the weekly information. Please read it. Credit Changes: +11: King Uther +4: Deadly Assassin +3: Caterane, Kaigan +2: GuardianAngel, McJarvis, Zerone, Sindorin +1: Gonbow, Cerebus, Malither, Erithmu, Xanadu, Pittbull, Rim-Soulfang, SoulLord, TCB, TelinArtho +0: Luni, Huan, Jh316, MindRogue, Tellish -1: LLMadCow -2: Iced Credits for Pitlords: +3: Kaigan, King Uther +2: Caterane, Gonbow, GuardianAngel, Malither, McJarvis, TelinArtho, Xanadu, Zerone +1: Cerebus, Erithmu, Jh316, Luni, MindRogue, Pittbull, Rim-Soulfang, SoulLord, TCB Credits for Questlords: +6: King Uther +4: Deadly Assassin -1: Iced Credits for Campaignlords: +2: Huan, King Uther, Sindorin, Tellish Special Credits: +1: Caterane (admin) Credits for Active PCs: -1: Gonbow, Huan, Luni, MindRogue, TelinArtho, Xanadu, Tellish, LLMadCow Credits for Questers: -1: Huan, Jh316, Malither, Tellish, Iced New Week, new All vs All rules. Please make yourself familiar with the new rules which are posted in the FAQ: Arena Combat I (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466621). Note that there are two different sets of rules; one for 4 player, one for 3. I think we're getting closer to the final version. An important thing: If there are any changes in the fight outcome after the fight is up, or if you take over a fight from someone else, or another change, please write me a PM to Pitlords. I cannot check all posts and I might miss something. The same goes for mistakes on the roster behind your character (perhaps there's a M missing for your last miniquest?). The offer to post dungeon maps for our Monster fights is still up. You get 1° for every map you post on the maps thread that could be taken into consideration. Ceiling no higher than 15ft, and it should not be as big as the arena. XY-Numbers and clearly distinguishable 5ft squares are necessary. Also, post a short description below the map. The map that will be picked in the end will be rewarded. I like to see Monster fights coming back soon. Questlords, please update your Questlog after every week! I cannot read the whole thread on pairings day. Post a clear winner and a short description (like I do on the quest roster) which I will take over. If there's nothing in your Questlog, I will assume the fight isn't finished. If you want to retire a level 6 character, please note that you would enter the Graveyard at lvl 7 and reserve an eternal place of honor. After having played the PC for so long, another level shouldn't be a problem. Think about it. Ok, that's it for this week. Good luck @Iced: You are in the red numbers. Do you want to pitlord a fight next week? @Huan: I thought you could use a break and you have enough credits. Let the newbies earn some. @Pittbull: I've put it into parenthesis. If Jindl sends tactics, or if you get those from Iced, run the fight. I'll also give you an extra credit for the workload if it will be run. @Zerone: What about Jon Szen now? Convert or retire?
waywreth 07-28-05, 09:13 AM	@ GuardianAngel - Tactics for Amion sent.
Kaigan 07-28-05, 10:00 AM	@Cat: Were these rules in effect last week? And if they were, then shouldn't the gladiators of xanadu's 3 person all vs. all receive more gp/xp?
SoulLord 07-28-05, 10:05 AM	Quick question just to be on the safe side.... what map is being used in the all 4 people fight. a link would be appreciated.
King Uther 07-28-05, 10:08 AM	@Pittbull I'll wait a little to see if Iced can send you my tactics. They were really detailed, and I'll win the fight if I can roll higher than a 50%. But if they are not given to you in a couple of hours, I will re-draft them.
TelinArtho 07-28-05, 10:14 AM	Aha! First fight of the week is up: Saya vs the Deinonychus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6815111)
Gonbow 07-28-05, 11:32 AM	@Erithmu Tactics recieved, prepping fight, willl be up later. @Sodaguy Tactics recieved, will prep and run when I get tactics from opponent.
madner 07-28-05, 11:39 AM	@ mcjarvis sent tactics for Nythan. (per PM)
Caterane 07-28-05, 11:48 AM	@Cat: Were these rules in effect last week? And if they were, then shouldn't the gladiators of xanadu's 3 person all vs. all receive more gp/xp? Read the first sentence below the sblock again.
TelinArtho 07-28-05, 12:05 PM	@Meek Head - tactics received for Czernobog. Waiting for Terminus Est tactics (Gonbow)
Mind Rogue 07-28-05, 12:49 PM	@ TCB just getting the word out about my 2 discrepencies with the expendable items of niobe proudfoot:"elixer of vision" = 7th lvl wiz spell, "potion of divine favor" = personal range spell :noway: Whoops. I ment to take the shield of faith potion, so it looks like I'll be without it for this week. As for the elixer of vision, what's wrong with a CL 2 minor wonderous item?
Mind Rogue 07-28-05, 01:31 PM	@Malither and Erithnu: Tactics for Zahrat and Yoriko have been sent @TCB: I still need to divine some tactics for Niobe @MystEric and TCB: I've recieved your tactics and I'll run the fight when I can, barring one of you coming up with something important before then. Hopefully I'll run it tonight after coming up with tactics for Niobe).
Altaris13 07-28-05, 01:31 PM	@Rim-Soulfang Tactics sent via email for Aeryn Valaer.
xanadu 07-28-05, 01:41 PM	@MAdcow - PM is fine. No rush, just get them to me when you can. As always, the earlier I receive tactcs, the early I do the fight and the more time I have to fix mistakes.
xanadu 07-28-05, 01:42 PM	Whoops. I ment to take the shield of faith potion, so it looks like I'll be without it for this week. As for the elixer of vision, what's wrong with a CL 2 minor wonderous item? nothing, but magic itms not in DM guide/SRD need to be procured throught the black market.
TelinArtho 07-28-05, 01:46 PM	But it is in the SRD in the wondrous items? (Elixer of Vision that is).
Purkake 07-28-05, 02:37 PM	About the Saya vs Fred fight: in the end when the last beast drops to -1 hp, Saya heals it with a CMW, shouldn't Fred take its last attack agains saya when it gets up to 0 hp?
waywreth 07-28-05, 02:44 PM	But it is in the SRD in the wondrous items? (Elixer of Vision that is). Yeah I don't see any issues either... it's straight from the SRD. Dunno how useful it'll be since it adds to search, but seems legal. SRD Quote: Elixir of Vision: Drinking this elixir grants the imbiber the ability to notice acute details with great accuracy (+10 competence bonus on Search checks for 1 hour). Faint divination; CL 2nd; Craft Wondrous Item, true seeing; Price 250 gp.
Maraxus 07-28-05, 03:27 PM	Kaigan: Tactic sent, and I think Ned sent his part, too. I forgot one think, not really a violation, but I think our opponent Ansom does not get his Buckler bonus to AC in a round he fires his bow.
Prince FyreDragon 07-28-05, 04:06 PM	Kaigan: Tactic sent, and I think Ned sent his part, too. I forgot one think, not really a violation, but I think our opponent Ansom does not get his Buckler bonus to AC in a round he fires his bow. Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round. You can’t bash someone with a buckler. Emphasis mine. Per the above entry, you still get buckler AC when firing a bow or crossbow.
Maraxus 07-28-05, 04:25 PM	That's exactly the paragraph. And I read: Use only the buckler: +1 AC. Use meele weapon in the buckler hand: No AC, -1 Attack Use bow/crossbow in the buckler hand: No AC or attack bonus or penalty. "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it." and "...if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round." "You don't get the AC" is no penalty. I think this is quite clear. :)
Gonbow 07-28-05, 04:26 PM	@TelinArtho Tactics for Terminus-Est vrs Czernobog sent.
TelinArtho 07-28-05, 05:03 PM	@Purkake - well, the goal of the miniquest is to get the creature, so she needs to heal it. If it makes you feel better, she can always wait a round and then cast it - its all the same to me...
TelinArtho 07-28-05, 05:10 PM	Fight number 2 of the week too. Czernobog vs Terminus Est (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6818904)
King Uther 07-28-05, 05:30 PM	Pure Evil versus 3 skeletons (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6819169&postcount=158) fight is up. 3rd fight, right here.
Prince FyreDragon 07-28-05, 05:47 PM	That's exactly the paragraph. And I read: Use only the buckler: +1 AC. Use meele weapon in the buckler hand: No AC, -1 Attack Use bow/crossbow in the buckler hand: No AC or attack bonus or penalty. "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it." and "...if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round." "You don't get the AC" is no penalty. I think this is quite clear. :) I would disagree that it is quite clear. What you (I imagine) are thinking of when it uses the term "carrying it" is that it is not being worn, and thus not eligible for addition to AC. I, on the other hand, take that to mean that it *is being worn, and thus is able to be used at no penalty. I fail to see what other penalties you would accrue while "carrying it" while using a bow. The only penalty would be whether or not it applies to your AC. And by that paragraph saying there are no penalties, I take that to mean that it does, indeed, apply to your AC. I guess this would call for an Elder ruling.
King Uther 07-28-05, 05:51 PM	@ TelinArtho Czernobog moved entirely too far in round 8 and a little too far in round 9, meaning he would have to delay one casting of MM simply because he had no LOE. It likely would change the outcome, or least make it a toss-up. Basically Terminus had a chance to hide again and set up an attack.
Altaris13 07-28-05, 06:18 PM	@ TelinArtho Czernobog moved entirely too far in round 8 and a little too far in round 9, meaning he would have to delay one casting of MM simply because he had no LOE. It likely would change the outcome, or least make it a toss-up. Basically Terminus had a chance to hide again and set up an attack. Also, in round 6, Czerno casts Sleep? This should break his Invis then but it breaks the following round? I don't follow?
nightbanegod 07-28-05, 07:14 PM	heh sorry about that elixer of vision, i just looked up the spell vision to see what it might be and came up with a 7th lvl wizard spell.. but wonderous item... go for it ps: good luck mind rogue... uhh why am i wishing you good luck you may ask? the world may never know!!
Mind Rogue 07-28-05, 07:25 PM	heh sorry about that elixer of vision, i just looked up the spell vision to see what it might be and came up with a 7th lvl wizard spell.. but wonderous item... go for it ps: good luck mind rogue... uhh why am i wishing you good luck you may ask? the world may never know!! Because it's the polite thing to do. Good luck to you too. But still, I should look a little closer at my items. I thought it was a +10 to spot.
Maraxus 07-28-05, 07:38 PM	Okay, I think I have understood what you want to say. I would disagree that it is quite clear. What you (I imagine) are thinking of when it uses the term "carrying it" is that it is not being worn, and thus not eligible for addition to AC. No, you imagine wrong what I'm trying to say. I, on the other hand, take that to mean that it *is being worn, and thus is able to be used at no penalty. Than you have not read correctly, what the description sais. It sais the bow/crossbow can be used without penalty, it does not say, that the shield can be used without penalty. I fail to see what other penalties you would accrue while "carrying it" while using a bow. The only penalty would be whether or not it applies to your AC. The (other) penallty would be "but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so." And this is a penalty, while "not getting AC" is the lack of a bonus - not a penallty. And as said above, it is even on the wrong item. And by that paragraph saying there are no penalties, I take that to mean that it does, indeed, apply to your AC. I guess this would call for an Elder ruling. Okay if you want to. It could be good to have an official ruleing about this, if it is not as clear as I thought it to be. ... One thing that I really want to know is, what Maverick Knight (who used the buckler) thinks about this. :)
Jh316 07-28-05, 07:51 PM	Hey...Um, I PMed Pitlords a while before the deadline and asked to be put on the inactive pitlords list. I don't have the time to do this anymore, since the little time I do have is taken up by a new GURPS group I joined.
King Uther 07-28-05, 07:56 PM	@Jh316 I got your back. I'll take the fight. @ Luni and Gonbow Please send your tactics to me. The fight will be up Monday.
Jh316 07-28-05, 08:02 PM	Thanks.
Mind Rogue 07-28-05, 08:08 PM	Darn, Uther beat me to it. With the fast responding players that I have, I think I could have run the second fight in a timely manner.
Gonbow 07-28-05, 08:53 PM	@King Uther Tactics resent via PM. @Mind Rogue Well, Uther is already getting 11 credits this week... why not make it 12 eh? I mean, damn, I thought being available for 3 fights a week was a bit much! I was obviously wrong :P
Mind Rogue 07-28-05, 09:07 PM	Well, he could distribute it to those of us who are only breaking even (I have 3 fighters right now), although I guess he is setting a record. Not that it matters too much to me. It means I have more time to squander this weekend. ;) On an unrelated note, the fight of the blinding wizards, Rumplebucket vs Rebeca is up.
Luni 07-28-05, 09:20 PM	@King Uther: Tactics sent. @Sunwolf: Tactics received. Well, King Uther doesn't do much pitlording. He gets most of his credits from running quests and Campaigns. Just be glad, that we have enough pitlords for everybody.
MystErikEry 07-28-05, 09:22 PM	At least that didn't cost him anything :P Can't target Blindness on an invisible opponent, sadly.. When Rumplebucket is able to cast See Invisibility without using up almost all of his spells per battle, he'll do much better :P That, and Invisibility himself. Next level... that's all he has to get to :D As at that point, he'd have 13 spell levels, or 5 spell levels per day. Then he could cast See Invisible and Blindness/Deafness, along with Expedituous Retreat which allows him to get nice range with his movement. :P Level 5 will be much better...
Gonbow 07-28-05, 09:49 PM	@ TelinArtho Czernobog moved entirely too far in round 8 and a little too far in round 9, meaning he would have to delay one casting of MM simply because he had no LOE. It likely would change the outcome, or least make it a toss-up. Basically Terminus had a chance to hide again and set up an attack. Well, he had an expiditous retreat going.. But I am rather disappointed that he didn't have Terminus at least /try/ to hide and recover. But as I didn't explicitly state it in my tactics, it is understandable.
Erithmu 07-28-05, 11:12 PM	Preia vs Zahrat (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6821953&postcount=160) is up ... otherwise known as the perfect tactics.
Maraxus 07-29-05, 12:05 AM	Hi, I know I'm not involved but I'm just to lawful. If I was MystErikEry, I would demand a refight of the Rumplebucket vs Rebeca fight. Second, I think a Magic Missle scroll CL 3 does only fire 2 migic missles, first, under magic item creation in the rules it sais: SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS .... For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell. Staffs are an exception to the rule... Or am I wrong here?
TelinArtho 07-29-05, 12:10 AM	I'll check my movement figures Uther - I've gone over the fight with a fine comb to begin with (had to rerun parts of it 3 times because I either missed something or realized I read the rules wrong on something else). The worst part about it is that each seemingly small change I made tossed who won the fight. To put it simply, the two characters are very closely matched... As to whether the character would rehide - I don't know that there's much point to it (I am assuming this is in the rounds after the fear). Czernobog knew where you were going, and was easily able to follow you with his double movement over yours. Anyway, like I said, I'll check the numbers in the morning. If it helps, I can again post the map with it.
MystErikEry 07-29-05, 12:36 AM	If I was MystErikEry, I would demand a refight of the Rumplebucket vs Rebeca fight. Second, I think a Magic Missle scroll CL 3 does only fire 2 migic missles, You're right about the CL 3 Magic Missle scroll, but even if only the first two missiles hit, it would deal 9 damage, putting him into a wounded state, and he could only have run away at that point (as his only other option would be to fire a crossbow bolt and fall into dying HPs, and even with a critical hit the maximum damage he could do with it is 12, bringing Rebeca to disabled). Edit: I realized that light crossbows do 1d8, not 1d6; so he could indeed bring her to dying with a critical hit, but that's a 10% chance and even then might not bring her so low, and then it's basically a draw, since they would have brought each other to dying :P Then again, she managed to succeed resisting Blindness's 15% fail chance, so... I'm not sure what you mean about crafted items; Magic Missile requires no save (and thus has no DC)... And the other scrolls didn't matter at all, as they only needed to last... what... five rounds? :P
King Uther 07-29-05, 12:57 AM	@ TelinArtho The reason I suggest the move was too far because there was a double move while drawing a scroll. 3 move actions.
Prince FyreDragon 07-29-05, 01:07 AM	Preia vs Zahrat (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6821953&postcount=160) is up ... otherwise known as the perfect tactics. I know there is little chance of me winning this battle, but I would like you to follow my tactics and continue the battle from where I had the opportunity to use my tattoo of skate. It was specifically stated in my tactics to do use it when I had LOS, and even though it is probably a losing battle, there is a small chance that I could pull it out if I could close to melee range. I have no problem burning the tattoo...if I did I wouldn't have specified to use it. I'd rather go down fighting, even if it costs me the extra resource, than surrender with a small chance I could have succeeded. If you could pick the fight up from there, and finish it to the death, I would like you to do so. Dwarves don't admit defeat...ever LOL
Kaigan 07-29-05, 01:25 AM	Tactics Sent: Tactics for Maylee: Sent to Rim-Soulfang via PM. Tactics for Alex: Sent to Cerebus13 via PM. Tactics Received: Maraxus: Tactics received for Mythos. Iced: Tactics received for Anixx NightBaneGod: Tactics received for Boris Madner: Tactics not received for Aldar. Maverick Knight: Tactics not received for Ansom. NedTheDestroyer: Tactics not received for Farfinar. Please send tactics in by tomorrow night, or I will be using default tactics. Thanks. Kaigan
Erithmu 07-29-05, 02:53 AM	FyreDragon: the reason I didn't use your tattoo in round 2 is that you had already used your std action casting divine power. I figured silence to try to counter the rest of her spellcasting was more appropriate in round 3, and then you didn't have a good chance to use it till round 7 (entangled). The result will still be the same as you will get out of the entanglement right as she finishes casting the bat swarm. The tattoo was also stated to be used after your silence spell. I can rerun it .... you might get one attack in, then again if you crit you win. PS ... you didn't crit (13!) ... your call I ran as you stated but I tried to save you some cash. If you want to have it run and use that tattoo ... then I'll run the stuff from round 7 when I get back on Saturday.
Sindorin 07-29-05, 03:43 AM	Hmm. Does anyone else remember not too long ago when we could count the number of active members on our hands? Now we need our feet... :D
Altaris13 07-29-05, 06:58 AM	:D Blame it on Uther...
Cerebus13 07-29-05, 08:32 AM	@xanadu - Tactics for Guts sent through email. @Kaigan - Tactics received. @SoulLord - Still waiting on Tactics. ---- Not sure how well Guts will perform in a free for all battle...he's designed with 1v1 combat in mind :P. Oh well, at least the loser's winnings are scaled up a bit so that they have some freedom to use a bit more of their inventory.
Gonbow 07-29-05, 08:34 AM	As to whether the character would rehide - I don't know that there's much point to it (I am assuming this is in the rounds after the fear). Czernobog knew where you were going, and was easily able to follow you with his double movement over yours. Of course there is a point in it. If I can get out of LOS for even a second, and stay within 5' of cover (I.E: If I can stand next to a boulder or column, I can make a hide check, because the corner of the boulder is 5' away), he needs to beat my hide check to see me again, even if he knows that I am in the general area. If he doesn't beat my hide or listen check by twenty, he doesn't know exactly where I am (though he could get lucky). That's a pretty hefty requirement, especially since he gets his reactive check to find such during my turn, presumably at the end of my movement when I am furtherest away from him, thus racking up distance penalties. But stealth in general is a little wonky and hard to run in the arena, as LOS isn't always clear (That calculator needs to be updated!)
TelinArtho 07-29-05, 09:11 AM	I see what you mean Uther - I generally operate under the assumption that someone could draw a scroll while they are moving. However, that case is not specifically dealt with (that I know of), in the rules, so I'll go back in and edit it. @Gonbow - while he would need to beat your MS with a listen +20 over your check, he just needs to beat your hide with his spot. His spot is +14 vs your hide of +8. When I am editing the fight for the above, I will make the hides as well - but we'll see if it makes any difference.
TelinArtho 07-29-05, 09:15 AM	@Altaris: Also, in round 6, Czerno casts Sleep? This should break his Invis then but it breaks the following round? I had to make a bit of a judgement call on this one. An attack spell, when targetted, removes invisibility. Sleep has targets but takes a full round to cast. While you are casting it, you don't choose your target until the casting is complete (because if it was before that, your target could move out of range and then you'd be out of luck even if another target was in range), so given that, I decided that Czernobog wouldn't become visible until the target was specified. It definitely has an effect on the fight - so if Gonbow wants an official ruling on this - petition some of the elders (or find me a direct reference to look at). /d
Altaris13 07-29-05, 09:17 AM	@TelinArtho: Good reasoning. :D I never realized that Sleep was a full round spell.
TelinArtho 07-29-05, 09:56 AM	Well, the changes have been made to the Czernobog vs Terminus Est fight. Again, the winner changed... Czernobog vs Terminus Est (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6818904)
Prince FyreDragon 07-29-05, 10:31 AM	FyreDragon: the reason I didn't use your tattoo in round 2 is that you had already used your std action casting divine power. I figured silence to try to counter the rest of her spellcasting was more appropriate in round 3, and then you didn't have a good chance to use it till round 7 (entangled). The result will still be the same as you will get out of the entanglement right as she finishes casting the bat swarm. The tattoo was also stated to be used after your silence spell. I can rerun it .... you might get one attack in, then again if you crit you win. PS ... you didn't crit (13!) ... your call I ran as you stated but I tried to save you some cash. If you want to have it run and use that tattoo ... then I'll run the stuff from round 7 when I get back on Saturday. I'm sorry I wasn''t more clear in this...I have no problem with how you ran the fight right up until the end. I was referring to using the tattoo once I broke the entangle. You made the correct call before that. No fault on your part there....I just don't want to concede the match, although I do appreciate the effort to save me the cash. As I said, I still probably won't win, but I don't want to sit here and second guess myself if there was a chance I could have. So if you could pick it up from where I broke the entangle, that would be super.
Gonbow 07-29-05, 10:59 AM	It definitely has an effect on the fight - so if Gonbow wants an official ruling on this - petition some of the elders (or find me a direct reference to look at). No, the invisibility not wearing off does sort of make sense. I'd accept a interpretation of it going either way, though it does make full-round spells more powerful (It's supposed to be a drawback, not a possible benefit! :P)
Deadly Assassin 07-29-05, 12:28 PM	@ SoulLord and LLMadCow: On Ormos' sheet, under equipment, it shoul read "Potion: Owl's Wisdom," not just "Owl's Wisdom." Sorry about that. Edit: Oh, and I accidentally put my two Tattoos of Force Screen in my expended items instead of equipment. You can check my two fights to see that neither of them used Tats of FS.
Pittbull 07-29-05, 12:35 PM	@ Xanadu: Hagrid's tactic has been sent! Thanks a lot!!
Pitlords 07-29-05, 12:39 PM	I'll cancel Anna vs <the one with the long name> Pittbull -1°
Pittbull 07-29-05, 12:46 PM	No problem!
Beldin 07-29-05, 12:50 PM	My tactics have been sent to Caterane and Luni vis email.
Luni 07-29-05, 12:59 PM	@Caterane: Tactics sent by PM. @Beldin: Tactics received.
Caterane 07-29-05, 01:05 PM	Ok, I just need Tactics for Vandelar and we're ready to go
xanadu 07-29-05, 01:22 PM	tactics received by all my gladiators except Dunewalker.
SoulLord 07-29-05, 01:23 PM	Ok, I just need Tactics for Vandelar and we're ready to go on their way by e-mail.
Altaris13 07-29-05, 02:03 PM	I predict that a half-giant is going to win this fight: "Guts vs Dunewalker vs Hagrid II"
madner 07-29-05, 02:26 PM	@ kaigan tactics sent per mail.
King Uther 07-29-05, 02:38 PM	@Pitlords Can I have a credit back for having 3 characters active last week then? @Pittbull I wish I could have the fight, but if Jindl says no then that is fine. I guess I'll have to kill Willbrock next week. Or not. @Luni and Gonbow For note, the fight is going to prove both fun and interesting based on the tatics sent. @Everyone You can dance if you want to. You can leave your friends behind. Cause if your friends don't dance and if they don't dance, then they ain't no friends of mine.
Gonbow 07-29-05, 03:02 PM	@Luni and Gonbow For note, the fight is going to prove both fun and interesting based on the tatics sent. @Everyone You can dance if you want to. You can leave your friends behind. Cause if your friends don't dance and if they don't dance, then they ain't no friends of mine. Fun and interesting? Cool! ^_^ <dances>
Mind Rogue 07-29-05, 03:08 PM	Hi, I know I'm not involved but I'm just to lawful. If I was MystErikEry, I would demand a refight of the Rumplebucket vs Rebeca fight. Second, I think a Magic Missle scroll CL 3 does only fire 2 migic missles, first, under magic item creation in the rules it sais: Or am I wrong here? Yep, I'll fix that. I was going to do it last night, but my internet timed out on me, so I went to bed instead. However, since I only have one d4 on hand (the other is buried right now), I rolled them in order, and I'll just pluck off the last roll, which still leaves Rumple at 0 hp (disabled). Since he has no healing items, and he can't cast scorching ray because he has used too many levels, the fight doesn't change. However, expect to have to wait a little bit before the update happens.
Altaris13 07-29-05, 03:08 PM	*prods Cerebrus* Just kidding. :D I'm just being anxious. :twitch: Uther wants some dancing? Here ya go! :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin:
Maraxus 07-29-05, 03:18 PM	Yep, I'll fix that. I was going to do it last night, but my internet timed out on me, so I went to bed instead. However, since I only have one d4 on hand (the other is buried right now), I rolled them in order, and I'll just pluck off the last roll, which still leaves Rumple at 0 hp (disabled). Since he has no healing items, and he can't cast scorching ray because he has used too many levels, the fight doesn't change. However, expect to have to wait a little bit before the update happens. Since he did not complain, it does not matter anyway. :)
Meek Head 07-29-05, 03:21 PM	Well, the changes have been made to the Czernobog vs Terminus Est fight. Again, the winner changed... Czernobog vs Terminus Est (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6818904) Please explain to me what changes were made that allowed me to lose this fight? This is the first time I've seen it and I cannot tell what has happened. Thanks.
Gonbow 07-29-05, 03:22 PM	Please explain to me what changes were made that allowed me to lose this fight? This is the first time I've seen it and I cannot tell what has happened. Thanks. A one-round delay around turn 8 I think.
Meek Head 07-29-05, 03:26 PM	A one-round delay around turn 8 I think. This can't be enough to change the outcome? All previous rolls should be kept, so a 1 round delay should just delay the outcome by 1 round, not change it? :confused:
TelinArtho 07-29-05, 03:34 PM	As pointed out by King Uther, I gave Czernobog 3 move actions in round 8 originally, which enabled him to get his first Magic Missile off in round 9. I also added in hide checks for Terminus, but as I suspected, they didn't affect the outcome at all (because any time he was able to hide, Czernobog was able to find him without spending a move action to explicitly do so).
Meek Head 07-29-05, 03:38 PM	As pointed out by King Uther, I gave Czernobog 3 move actions in round 8 originally, which enabled him to get his first Magic Missile off in round 9. I also added in hide checks for Terminus, but as I suspected, they didn't affect the outcome at all (because any time he was able to hide, Czernobog was able to find him without spending a move action to explicitly do so). So how did that alter the outcome? Did you have to make new rolls for an extra round? What happened to the old rolls, did you reroll them? Still confused as to how I lose if we just add in one more round of movement? I am trying to figure out what numbers (die rolls) changed which would cause me to lose the fight. :confused: Thanks.
TelinArtho 07-29-05, 03:39 PM	Meek Head - I kept all rolls that stayed in the same order. However, if actions occured that changed the order or significantly affected how the action came about, then it was rerolled (mostly so I didn't have floating numbers in my file). As to why it would be a big difference for 1 round? Well, you came to the end of your Exp. Retreat and Shield - making it MUCH easier for your opponent to hit you and to maneuver. Sometimes, 1 round can be a huge factor.
Meek Head 07-29-05, 03:53 PM	Meek Head - I kept all rolls that stayed in the same order. However, if actions occured that changed the order or significantly affected how the action came about, then it was rerolled (mostly so I didn't have floating numbers in my file). As to why it would be a big difference for 1 round? Well, you came to the end of your Exp. Retreat and Shield - making it MUCH easier for your opponent to hit you and to maneuver. Sometimes, 1 round can be a huge factor. Well that is not fair nor correct. You are supposed to keep the rolls and place them in their correct spots, even if they occur 100 rounds later. Rolls don't change due to a Pitlord error. ;) @ Pitlords: It sounds like I should have won this fight but TelinArtho (the Pitlord) change some rolls. This is not the normal procedure for running a fight and want to know what can be done in my defense. Thanks. :)
Caterane 07-29-05, 04:00 PM	Thematic rolls must be kept. If you fail vs Hold Person, you'll also fail in the rerun, no matter when Hold Person is being cast. The order or round in which the action occurs might change of course. There might also be new actions in the rerun that did not appear in the first run thus need to be rolled anew.
TelinArtho 07-29-05, 04:37 PM	Okay - mistake on my part. The situation is like this: 1. In the original fight, Czernobog had a scroll of Shocking Grasp in hand and was adjacent to Terminus. Terminus was unarmed, so Czernobog cast the spell (succeeding the caster level check) and tried to touch Terminus. He succeeded and did some damage (16 if I remember). 2. In the new fight, Czernobog has the scroll out but is not adjacent. He casts the spell and holds the charge (still succeeding obviously). He then moves about and tries to touch Terminus. [Here is where it changed] He fails to touch Terminus 3 times. So - assuming I should have him succeed on the first touch for 16 damage (I don't remember the exact rolls for the hit, but I know it was a hit), and then act from there.
MystErikEry 07-29-05, 04:40 PM	@Mind Rogue: Rumple no longer has sufficient resources to win, or even draw, the fight. He is disabled with no manner of recovering Hp, so whatever he does will cause him to lose the fight. Since he no longer has enough spell levels left to cast [I]scorching ray from memory, nor can he read a scroll, he no longer has the power to disable Rebeca. Thus, Rumple is forced to concead the match. Rumplebucket can attempt to fire one crossbow bolt at Rebeca (assuming he can tell where she is, which seems to be the case since you were going to have him cast Scorching Ray if he could). If he scores a critical hit, he can deal 2d8 damage to Rebeca, enough to drop her 16 HP to the negative if he gets extremely lucky. Even if he fails, at least he went down trying. ;) Could you at least have him try it?
Mind Rogue 07-29-05, 04:46 PM	Ok, I edited the fight, even though Rumple didn't complain about it (because I like having things right). However, it doesn't change anything, and I didn't need to roll a single die. However, it took me a minute to realize that he couldn't cast scorching ray anymore. I had actually rolled that vs. concealment and to hit, both passed, and he dealt enough damage to bring Rebeca to the negatives before they both stabalized. Since I realized I had to throw that out, it doesn't matter, but what happens if the match is a draw like that? @Prince Dragon That's what contingency plans are for. I have options against everyone and hopefully something to back it up when it goes wrong (although it hasn't so far). That's now the second time I've won with an entangle/summon swarm combo, so perhaps I should just memorize it rather than read it off a scroll. I was actually worried that I would have to fight Santos, Farfinar or that Half-giant monk (whatever his name is). Now, to look into the match and see if my little Resistance spell actually won the match (nobody out there better underestimate the power of an orison).
Mind Rogue 07-29-05, 04:53 PM	@Mind Rogue: Rumplebucket can attempt to fire one crossbow bolt at Rebeca (assuming he can tell where she is, which seems to be the case since you were going to have him cast Scorching Ray if he could). If he scores a critical hit, he can deal 2d8 damage to Rebeca, enough to drop her 16 HP to the negative if he gets extremely lucky. Even if he fails, at least he went down trying. ;) Could you at least have him try it? You got your wish. Perhaps you should go see the results (then again, you migh not like it). It was worth a shot though (no pun intended). Erase one crossbow bolt.
MystErikEry 07-29-05, 04:58 PM	If the crossbow bolt missed, isn't there a 50% it's still intact? :P Also, I thought with the nimbus, you could repair broken items for free (and this should include arrows/crossbow bolts, heh) ;) It was worth it. A chance of winning a battle is far better than one crossbow bolt. ;) Thank you very much, Mind Rogue.
Mind Rogue 07-29-05, 05:20 PM	@ Erik 22%: the arrow breaks. Of course, as MystErikEry pointed out, ammunition like this is broken and should be repaired by the Nimbus. By the same logic, however, any piece of ammunition that hits it's opponent is also broken, and therefore should be repaired at the next sunrise, ready to use in the next fight. And that's what's the problem with the Nimbus.
MystErikEry 07-29-05, 05:26 PM	I don't see why sundered items should get to be repaired but ammunition isn't :P That's just weird ;)
SoulLord 07-29-05, 05:39 PM	he he then what about javelin's of lighting or used scrolls. for simplicity sake I think all ammo fired can be considered lost.
MystErikEry 07-29-05, 05:43 PM	Scrolls expend their energy. Even if the scroll were to be reformed (hey, a sundered scroll would come back, wouldn't it?) it wouldn't be reuseable, and thus would just be a blank scroll, basically. :P And regardless, the flavor of the nimbus makes it seem like ammunition should be repairable. Not saying it should change, but there should likely be some IC reason for the lack of reforming arrows :P
Pitlords 07-29-05, 05:48 PM	Okay - mistake on my part. The situation is like this: 1. In the original fight, Czernobog had a scroll of Shocking Grasp in hand and was adjacent to Terminus. Terminus was unarmed, so Czernobog cast the spell (succeeding the caster level check) and tried to touch Terminus. He succeeded and did some damage (16 if I remember). 2. In the new fight, Czernobog has the scroll out but is not adjacent. He casts the spell and holds the charge (still succeeding obviously). He then moves about and tries to touch Terminus. [Here is where it changed] He fails to touch Terminus 3 times. So - assuming I should have him succeed on the first touch for 16 damage (I don't remember the exact rolls for the hit, but I know it was a hit), and then act from there. Although Czernobog has attacked some rounds later in the fight, the thematic rolls "touch attack" and "damage" of the theme "shocking grasp" are to be kept thus Czerno succeeds on the first attack and deals 16 damage. If, for example, Terminus would be unable to be touched throughout the fight (perhaps he now flies) and Czerno is forced to cast scorching ray instead of shocking grasp, then new rolls need to be made. Hope that helps. @MysticErik: Arrows are expendables. If I sunder your potion, it will be replaced. If you use it, it's gone.
MystErikEry 07-29-05, 06:35 PM	Well, yes. I just want to know what the IC reason is. Obviously a used potion has expended its magical energy, and the nimbus doesn't restore those. But arrows don't have magical energy to "expend" - they just break. Shouldn't all broken things be repaired by the nimbus? This is why I'm wondering why, IC-wise, these things are not repaired (basically, all ammunition).
Maraxus 07-29-05, 07:02 PM	The nimbus has a will. He is lawfull, just. He only repair items broken unintentionally. At least one could say this. But I have no idea.
MystErikEry 07-29-05, 07:07 PM	The nimbus has a will. He is lawfull, just. He only repair items broken unintentionally. At least one could say this. But I have no idea. Yes, but I didn't intentionally break my crossbow bolt :P Plus, wouldn't a sundered item be intentionally broken? By your opponent, yes, but shouldn't it amount to the same thing? What if you sunder one of your own items? Is it considered intentional? How does the nimbus know if an item belongs to one person or the other? And what if someone sunders my crossbow bolt. What's the difference between that, and having it break after being shot? I know that ammunition isn't expensive (and enchanted ammunition that is reuseable would be broken) , but there has to be some kind of IC reason for it. XD Don't you think?
Pitlords 07-29-05, 07:32 PM	To make it short: those are the rules. Explanations are secondary. If arrows would be repaired, so would magic arrows. I'd buy some bane arrows for every race which would be replaced for free. This is not how it should be; neither here, nor in a campaign.
Maraxus 07-29-05, 08:01 PM	Right, nobody questioned that, we were just looking for a more ... flavourful explanation. ;) By the way, what about the buckler-discussion from page ..öhm.. two: Does a buckler give it's bonus to AC in a turn you use a bow? Prince FyreDragon wanted to hear an elder about this.
Kaigan 07-29-05, 08:14 PM	Right, nobody questioned that, we were just looking for a more ... flavourful explanation. ;) By the way, what about the buckler-discussion from page ..öhm.. two: Does a buckler give it's bonus to AC in a turn you use a bow? Prince FyreDragon wanted to hear an elder about this. I will attempt to explain it. Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round. Please note the bolded part. Now... Unless I am very mistaken, when using a bow you use your off hand, thus you don't get the buckler's AC bonus for the rest of the round. However, you can use a light crossbow one handed, and therefore if you use it in that manner, you retain the AC bonus. Is that clear enough?
nightbanegod 07-29-05, 08:15 PM	on the note of cross bow bolts... are REGULAR javelins replaced or considered broken if thrown at enemy?
Maraxus 07-29-05, 08:34 PM	Kaigan: That's exactly how I see it. Had not thought of the light crossbow but obviously you are right. nightbanegod: I hope not. I'm just thinking about my second character and he (maybe) wanted to use thrown weapons, too. If they are not reuseable, that would be ... bad.
xanadu 07-29-05, 08:35 PM	If I am not mistaken, only ammunition is destroyed after use so javelins aren't.
TelinArtho 07-29-05, 09:09 PM	@Gonbow and Meek Head I've reposted the fight with the latest changes per the discussion earlier. Yet again, the winner has changed (Czernobog is currently the winner). /d
Zerone 07-29-05, 09:15 PM	Mugen vs. a Deinonychus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6831286&postcount=164) is up. Tactics Received: Daeren Stronghammer (TelinArtho) Sola Nicous (Erithmu) Will run Daeren vs. Sola Saturday or Sunday. *•. Z
Huan 07-29-05, 10:35 PM	@Gonbow Tactics for Dameon Leonne sent.
nightbanegod 07-29-05, 10:39 PM	yeah true you could use a light xbow onehanded but i dont think that the buckler AC is worth the -4 penalty for using the xbow one handed and plus you would have to reload that xbow sometime... effectively using your off hand the next round anyways.. unless you take rapid reload and just reload when its convenient
Mind Rogue 07-29-05, 11:28 PM	About the broken crossbow bolts and arrows and the whole magical thingy: when a magic item is broken it loses much of it's power. The physical object might be able to be repaired with craft or make whole, but it lacks the energy now to perform its duties. In order to replace that lost energy, someone with the appropriate item creation feat must reimbue it with power, which costs half as much as normal. See the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and related feats. You can also mend a broken magic weapon, suit of armor, or shield if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the raw materials and the time it would take to craft the item in the first place. Thus, you should be able to recover arrows, but any magical properties would be lost unless repaired, which costs half as much as it did in the first place. Of course, not everyone is likely to be to happy about that. The fact that the arrow is sticking out of your opponent and thus should probably end up in his possession might be a rational explanation for all the ones that hit.
Gonbow 07-29-05, 11:39 PM	@Gonbow and Meek Head I've reposted the fight with the latest changes per the discussion earlier. Yet again, the winner has changed (Czernobog is currently the winner). /d Again? Dang! That said, THANK YOU for running this fight not once, not twice, but three times! Certainly above the call of duty ;) Even if it didn't go my way, it makes me feel good to know that everything was taken into account and done properly.
LLMadCow 07-29-05, 11:42 PM	I just got home, I am writing tactics. I have to make some revisions; I just noticed that the rules for 1 v 1 v 1 combat has changed since last week. So, I will have tactics out within an hour or so, sorry for the delays. LL
TelinArtho 07-29-05, 11:44 PM	Actually Gonbow, I ran it three times before I even posted it for things I saw then. So in total, I've run it 6 times...
Caterane 07-30-05, 09:18 AM	My Team Fight is up. Was fun to run. Link
xanadu 07-30-05, 10:55 AM	If a wizard scribes a scroll, is the DC the defaul of does it use the scriber's primary stat? For example, sleep is normally a DC 11. If a wiz with 18 Int scribes it, does the scroll now have a DC 15?
Pitlords 07-30-05, 10:59 AM	Always minimum DC (Int 11 for 1st lvl)
TelinArtho 07-30-05, 10:59 AM	A scroll has the DC of the minimum that the spell can have: For example a 1st level spell (ability=11) would be DC11 a 2nd level spell (ability=12) would be DC13 ... a 9th level spell (ability=19) would be DC23 It doesn't matter the scriber's or the reader's ability.
Cerebus13 07-30-05, 11:42 AM	The Invisible Castle die roller is not working for me today, is anyone else having this same problem? I'm going to wait to run my fight this week until it comes back...otherwise I break out some dice tomorrow afternoon at the very latest.
Gonbow 07-30-05, 11:52 AM	Elb vrs Loddick (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6834957&posted=1#post6834957) is up (finally). Forty nine rounds long. Yeesh ^_^
King Uther 07-30-05, 12:17 PM	@Cerebus13 Same problem with die roller. I just used my own dice last night. If it is not fixed by Monday, Ariel vs Santos will be run with my dice as well.
Luni 07-30-05, 12:54 PM	I'll run my fight when Inivsible Castle comes back. Otherwise, I might have to actually try to locate some real dice. @Caterane: If someone is in an entangle field, they got to make a reflex save every round. I don't think it would make a large difference in the fight though. Also in Round 10, I think you added Inihe's sneak atk damage in, even though he was more then 30' I think.
Gonbow 07-30-05, 12:56 PM	I'll run my fight when Inivsible Castle comes back. Otherwise, I might have to actually try to locate some real dice. @Caterane: If someone is in an entangle field, they got to make a reflex save every round. I don't think it would make a large difference in the fight though. If you need online dice, the D&D page on the wizards website has a roller, and the Irony Dice Server is very flexible as well. Irony has a clunky confirmation system, so I wouldn't recommend it if you actually want to link to your results.
xanadu 07-30-05, 01:22 PM	Didn't know that about scrolls, I shouldn't have scribed them. The other FFA is up. FFA (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6827393). Everyone had good tactics so it came down to the dice. I think the rewards system should be consistent with the 4 man FFAs or you get rewarded for stuff you did. Guts is getting XP for doing absolutely nothing to Dunewalker. Thats 1500 XP and 1600 GP for free. Sign me up for 3 FFAs! Opinions? I think Guts should get 1x winners reward for defeating a gladiator. I think Hagrid should get 1x winners reward for defeating a gladiator and 1x losers reward for losing to a different gladiator I think Dunewalker should get 1x losers reward for losing to a gladiator. Perhaps Guts should get some sort of bonus for winning, but at present he should be arrested by the police for theft :D I do think the FFA adds some spice, pizzaz, and variety to Gladius and should be kept. I liked reading about the other FFA my glaidator was involved in - very suspensful and unpredictable :thumbsup:
Pitlords 07-30-05, 01:32 PM	One thing that might change a lot: Hagrid needs a move action to stand up from kneeling position so he cannot charge Dune in that round. Also, I believe, Dune didn't want to be in straight and clear charge line. With 65ft to 30, he can easily avoid melee. Just want to prevent a size 7 coming forth. @Pittbull: Bestow power is ok but is added to your total, thus subject to the 1/3 rule. Else it would be way too powerful! 120gp and you've doubled your PP?
LLMadCow 07-30-05, 01:48 PM	Why do you say Dunewalker did nothing? He shot and damaged all the time. Also, why should he gain xp? He died before his target was killed. One thing that might change a lot: Hagrid needs a move action to stand up from kneeling position so he cannot charge Dune in that round. Also, I believe, Dune didn't want to be in straight and clear charge line. With 65ft to 30, he can easily avoid melee. Just want to prevent a size 7 coming forth. @Pittbull: Bestow power is added to your total, thus subject to the 1/3 rule. Else it would be way too powerful! 120gp and you've doubled your PP. Yes I wanted to avoid melee. I thought I made it clear with the bow in hand tactic and the statements about high movement/speed and his ability to stay at range and such? Why did he end a round in a position for a charge? DW would've sacrificed a round of attack in exchange for NOT GETTING ATTACKED. Live longer, attack more. Off to read the fight..... LL Edit: After reading the fight and such, here is additional commentary. Ideally, DW wants ranged combat. @Xanadu: It's all your call. I should have been clearer with my tactics. I really wanted DW to stay out of melee. The arena is huge, and these guys are brutes. Arrows galore and plenty of time to move all over the place, make the ranged attacks and let them focus on each other if possible. If you do not want to make changes, such is life. If you have the time and are up for it, I'd appreciate it, but it is your call. I have no hard feelings, crits happen every day.
Pitlords 07-30-05, 01:55 PM	I agree however with your assessment of the rewards. Perhaps we should go with targets like with 4 player fights else hiders and combat avoiders gain xp for nothing. The 4 player match worked very well and I think this is the way to go. I just made the 3 player differently to see how it works. I'll change the rules accordingly although for this match, we go with the original reward system (winner: 2x XP, 2nd 1xwinner+1loser XP, 3rd 2xloser XP)
xanadu 07-30-05, 02:13 PM	You are right about the kneeling. Madcow, if you want to avoid melee at all costs you really need to size 7 that. Your preferences indicate a preference for ranged and "If melee enemy comes up close, store bow and close for melee" which doesn't sound like double-move or run away from from melee because I am scared of a buffed out Hagrid. Pitlords aren't mindreaders. In Xyan's FFA I didn't want to use my sleep scrolls but because I said "If enemy's will save is working use magic missiles" rather than "Dont bother with scrolls, just magic missiles," it put the pitlord in a difficult position to determine what exactly I wanted. That's my fault, not the pitlords. The whole fight will probably be different now because Guts will get into the fray before Hagrid's attack will ever happen. edit: I doubt my decision will effect things now since Hagrid cant charge Dunewalker. I will play out the rest of the fight with a stronger preference for ranged but I cant have you panic away from these brutes since you didn't say so in your tactics
LLMadCow 07-30-05, 02:50 PM	You are right about the kneeling. Madcow, if you want to avoid melee at all costs you really need to size 7 that. Your preferences indicate a preference for ranged and "If melee enemy comes up close, store bow and close for melee" which doesn't sound like double-move or run away from from melee because I am scared of a buffed out Hagrid. Pitlords aren't mindreaders. In Xyan's FFA I didn't want to use my sleep scrolls but because I said "If enemy's will save is working use magic missiles" rather than "Dont bother with scrolls, just magic missiles," it put the pitlord in a difficult position to determine what exactly I wanted. That's my fault, not the pitlords. The whole fight will probably be different now because Guts will get into the fray before Hagrid's attack will ever happen. edit: I doubt my decision will effect things now since Hagrid cant charge Dunewalker. I will play out the rest of the fight with a stronger preference for ranged but I cant have you panic away from these brutes since you didn't say so in your tactics @Xanadu: It is up to you. I completely understand that I must be more specific in my tactics, and as such, do not re-run it if it is going to cause trouble. Really, I know I made a mistake. I should have specifically written distances and such and specifically noted such things. It was late and I was trying to be quick. I had originally written tactics and started working out a plan based off of the first style (A => B => C => A) while I was at work, off of characters that I had printed out and been reading over. When I came home and found out that Cat had made a change the next day, I had to reconsider everything and what tactics I was going to go with; with the changes, I was not going to be invisible to anyone and I no longer had a specific target to go after. So, long story short, I rushed to get tactics out, did not make them as complete and detailed as I should have and that is ALL MY FAULT. In regard to the Kneeling issue, just modify DWs actions to keep him at range. FYI: My Personal definitions - [Range = (Double opponents move + 5')]. [Close = Within 1x opponents Movement] I know that running a fight is insane and difficult and every other word in the thesaurus that means: my own personal hell. To that end, I will make no further remarks in regard to my tactics unless you ask. LL
Erithmu 07-30-05, 02:56 PM	@Gonbow: Sorry you had to run that mess, I probably should have mentioned that I didn't want to use the wand but whatever. I won't make you go back and do anything with it. Use Dwarf Brand slings. Hi My name is Loddick, and I recommend Dwarf Brand slings, they kicked my butt and you can use them to do the same thing.
xanadu 07-30-05, 03:18 PM	I think the answer is "yes" but I will ask anyway. Drawing a weapon provokes an AOO. Does it still provoke if one draws it while taking a safe 5 foot step (you know the +1 BAB thing)? DW: Because Pitlords agreed double-moving is the within the spirit of what you would have done, I will have you move away. Since Hagrid gets 11 HPs back, couldn't attack you anyway, and the new action changes nothing fundamentally about the fight, I see no harm in doing so.
Erithmu 07-30-05, 03:46 PM	drawing a weapon does NOT provoke an AoO ... drawing anything else does
LLMadCow 07-30-05, 03:48 PM	I think the answer is "yes" but I will ask anyway. Drawing a weapon provokes an AOO. Does it still provoke if one draws it while taking a safe 5 foot step (you know the +1 BAB thing)? DW: Because Pitlords agreed double-moving is the within the spirit of what you would have done, I will have you move away. Since Hagrid gets 11 HPs back, couldn't attack you anyway, and the new action changes nothing fundamentally about the fight, I see no harm in doing so. Drawing a weapon, even a hidden weapon, never provokes an AoO. A characters movement may or may not provoke, but the act of drawing a weapon does not. Sheathing a weapon, or weapon-like item (i.e. - a wand), provokes, which is why many will drop a weapon in combat and return for it later. You can draw a weapon as part of a Regular Move Action, but not as part of a 5' step. A 5' step is considered No Action and the ability to draw a weapon for free, with the required BAB+1, is a part of a Regular Move Action aka moving up to 1x speed. So, you are left with move up to 1x speed and draw a weapon for free or stand still and draw a weapon. Either way, a Move Action has been wasted and you are left with the option of a Standard action or less, but not a Full-Round Action. LL All info was with the PHB on my lap, and I can pull the quotes if I have to, but I am about to dash out of the house for the rest of the day....
TelinArtho 07-30-05, 03:57 PM	@Gonbow - in round 36 of that monster fight... Elb did hit (14+8=22 vs AC20). I'm sure it wouldn't really matter - given that Elb wins anyway, but maybe he won't use all 50...
Gonbow 07-30-05, 04:20 PM	@Gonbow: Sorry you had to run that mess, I probably should have mentioned that I didn't want to use the wand but whatever. I won't make you go back and do anything with it. Use Dwarf Brand slings. Hi My name is Loddick, and I recommend Dwarf Brand slings, they kicked my butt and you can use them to do the same thing. @Erithmu Eh? Oh I am sorry. Mm. <eyes the huge fight> Eh.. Well. I might change it. I'll send you a PM if I do, but daamn that took awhile :P @TelinAnthro Oops! Thanks for the spot. If I do rerun it <shudder> he certainly won't use all 50, since Loddick wouldn't have used the wand.
xanadu 07-30-05, 04:24 PM	Wow. I learn something everyday here.
Altaris13 07-30-05, 05:03 PM	"MUST KILL!" "WANT FIGHT!" "CRUSH! SLAM! SMASH! DIE who ever it is Aeryn is fighting?" :D Hey Cerebrus, no worries on the die roller man. I'm game with live dice (prefer them actually) if you decide to go that route. If not, I can wait until Live Castle is up too. No pressure from this side. Thanks for Pitlording!!!
xanadu 07-30-05, 05:37 PM	I corrected the error which allowed Hagrid to charge. I also moved Dunewalker away from Hagrid to execute the spirit of his tactics. Mostly because the rolls had to be kept, the fight wound up the same. Hagrid ran to base DW and got his crit in. Guts also entered the fray hitting DW with another blast of acid. DW maybe should get his sword manifested with acid for future fights. It is a powerful ability and costs only a 150 gp stone; his crit on Hagrid might have killed him outright. Pitlords, the XP worked out logically now: Guts damaged both gladiators, he should get 2x winners share which he did. Hagrid dropped one galdiator and got dropped. Again 1x winner and 1x loser share seems right. DW got hit with two acidic weapons, so he probably deserves 2x loser share. I think if you only count XP for participating in a battle [i.e. getting hit or hitting] then rewards will work out right. This way we can punish hiders and shirkers while properly rewarding those who are aggressive.
Pittbull 07-30-05, 05:51 PM	Damn it some weeks ago, sombody told me that kneeling down and getting up is a free-action! But OK, there is the ruling. @Pitlord: Bestow Power was so nice. 120gp for two PPs (4/3=2 ;) ) is still good. So I agree, but adding this to the 1/3-rule isn't so logical. Thanks a lot Xanadu, this has been a cool fight!
Rim-Soulfang 07-30-05, 05:53 PM	Ok, thats the third week in a row now. Once again i am unable to run the fight. Does anyone else want the fight between Aeryn and Maylee?
Pittbull 07-30-05, 05:57 PM	OK, I'll take it , send the tactics to me.
Malither76 07-30-05, 06:06 PM	nope Pittbull the kneeling is free, the getting up is not, if you notice Gareth did it in our campainge I use it a fair amount, it is kind of wierd you would think you could spring out of there like a starting block for sprinting and still charge, oh well
Pittbull 07-30-05, 06:23 PM	Is really so weird? Just think of football players: A defensive end starts kneeling and then charges the quaterback. But now I understood the rule and it's ok!
Pitlords 07-30-05, 06:47 PM	@Pittbull: Kneeling and Sitting are considered the same. Now standing up from a "Schneidersitz" (don't know the english word; cross-legged perhaps?) is not so quick. Dropping prone, kneeling, or sitting down is a free action, but standing up is a move-equivalent action. PS: football players are not kneeling; they are just bending over. Either that or they have that quick standup feat. Also, it is logical to add it to the total PP. The bestowed powerpoints last all day so they are also used in all fights and actions that day (= full PP). @all: Can someone please tell me where I can find the kneeling reference? I am sure it's somewhere in the core books but I cannot find it :weep: Maylee the Wanderer (Kaigan) vs Aeryn Valaer (Altaris13): Rim-Soulfang has been reassigned to Pittbull. Rim-1°, Peter+1°.
Gonbow 07-30-05, 07:18 PM	@all: Can someone please tell me where I can find the kneeling reference? I am sure it's somewhere in the core books but I cannot find it :weep: Well, the modifiers to combat while kneeling are here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/combatModifiers.html). And the action to kneel/standup are... Hmm. Well they should be here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/actionsInCombat.html), but it doesn't mention kneeling, just dropping prone.
xanadu 07-30-05, 07:53 PM	I dont think there is an English word for "Schneidersitz" if that means sitting with your legs crossed. I vaguely recall something like "Indian style" when I was young but I think that was something different. My German must be rusty, I could have sworn Schneider meant tailor or maybe someone who cuts (schneiden = cut). If kneeling and raising from a kneel was a free action, every would always have +2 AC from ranged attacks ;) Football players line up in a three point stance much like sprinters, it's the best technique for an explosive burst. Kneeling is a one point stance and not quite the same thing.
Caterane 07-30-05, 09:07 PM	Yep, Schneider = Tailor. Standing up from kneeling is definately a move-equivalent action (not free, and not regular move action). However, I cannot find the reference; only the modifiers but I could swear I've seen it somewhere.
LLMadCow 07-30-05, 10:51 PM	Football players line up in a three point stance much like sprinters, it's the best technique for an explosive burst. Kneeling is a one point stance and not quite the same thing. Hey - don't leave out the big boys; many of your Defensive/Offensive Line guards and tackles will go to a four-point stance, especially as they get tired. This sometimes depends on the play and how they are lined up against their opponents. Example: As a left defensive guard set to block right, one might go down with the right hand on the ground and their left hand on their knee. At the snap, this allows the left hand to be free from the go, for instant movement in the direction you want to be going. And, football players spend a great deal of time in practice doing drills that are focused on getting up from the ground and springing forth from the 3/4 point stance. Calf exercises are a big deal for many.
xanadu 07-30-05, 10:57 PM	Hey - don't leave out the big boys; many of your Defensive/Offensive Line guards and tackles will go to a four-point stance, especially as they get tired. This sometimes depends on the play and how they are lined up against their opponents. As one of the little guys who spent time catching footballs I wouldn't know a damn thing that went on in the trenches except those dudes spent a lot of time gasping for air :D
Mind Rogue 07-30-05, 11:04 PM	Don't look at me, I'm a runner. After being stuck watching the games for four years because of marching band, I still don't understand the point of the game (besides for getting the ball to the other side and to beat up other big smelly guys). On the other hand, there was this CC meet...
SoulLord 07-30-05, 11:36 PM	Quick answer needed please. are the only books allowed in the CoCo 1.- Players handbook 2.- Dungeon Masters Guide 3.- Monster Manual 4.- Psionics handbook and is other open game content allowed as well? specifically this http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divine.html
Mind Rogue 07-30-05, 11:45 PM	Not quite. The only sources allowed are the PHB, the DMG, the MM, and the SRD. Only parts of the PsiHB that appear in the SRD are allowed (so no psionic mind flayers are githyanki). Other open game content is not allowed. However, what you listed is from the SRD, and thus is allowed, although good luck being able to use any of the divine stuff in CoCo.
Vathelokai 07-30-05, 11:58 PM	So, if you got yourself to epic levels, could you go on a quest (or campagin) to gain divine levels? I know it would be rediculous and take forever, but it is an option, right?
King Uther 07-31-05, 02:11 AM	@Soulord and Mindrogue The divine portion of the SRD on that site has been approved by the elders. So feats like Divine Might are allowed. Caterane has multiple characters with it. I have a character with the Darkness domain.
Sindorin 07-31-05, 04:00 AM	Quick answer needed please. are the only books allowed in the CoCo 1.- Players handbook 2.- Dungeon Masters Guide 3.- Monster Manual 4.- Psionics handbook and is other open game content allowed as well? specifically this http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divine.html That is completely legal. Everything in Sovelior's is legal here. See Character: Trokk The Eviscerator for at least one character that has the KnockDown feat. I know there was someone else, but my memory fails me at the moment.
LLMadCow 07-31-05, 04:47 AM	Just an FYI, nothing more..... @Xanadu: During the fight Guts vs Dunewalker vs Hagrid II, in Round 8 you said: [tapping tattoo of biofeedback and/or drawing shield would provoke so I went w/ greatsword] Just so you know, drawing a shield does not provoke an AoO, and even if it did, Dunewalkers shield is a Heavy Mithril, Spiked Shield and therefore considered a martial piercing weapon. So, either way, DW could have drawn his shield during combat that round. Either way, DW dies, so, no skin off my back. LL
Pittbull 07-31-05, 05:29 AM	Maylee the Wanderer (Kaigan) vs Aeryn Valaer (Altaris13): Rim-Soulfang Pittbull @Altaris13: Please send me your tactic. I got allready Kaigan's and Rim didn't send me something.
Altaris13 07-31-05, 10:10 AM	@Altaris13: Please send me your tactic. I got allready Kaigan's and Rim didn't send me something. :eek: Bugger... Give me a while, I have to recreate them and the brain doesn't function without coffee. :zzz: :whatsthis
xanadu 07-31-05, 10:17 AM	Hmm, when I asked about the weapon, someone replied that drawing anything else would provoke an AOO. I guess since your shield is technically a weapon, then you are right and that would count as safe. Sneaky. For future reference, because you have the 2 weapon fighting feat, you can draw them both as a single move action (or as part of a move action with the +1 BAB requirement), right?
Mind Rogue 07-31-05, 10:17 AM	@Altaris ~does handsign for "you need coffee"~ @Xanandu Well, it says specifically that strapping a shield to your arm does not provoke an AoO, and, like weapons, this can be done at the same time as moving if you have a high enough BaB (which almost everyone here does). Being that shields are generally treated as weaponlike objects anyway (since they can be disarmed, sundered, and often actually used as weapons), I see no reason why you couldn't do this with a weapon if you have two-weapon fighting, or as a free action if you have quick draw, but that is merely extrapolation for what I believe should happen, not what I think the rules actually say.
Altaris13 07-31-05, 10:24 AM	Hmm, when I asked about the weapon, someone replied that drawing anything else would provoke an AOO. I guess since your shield is technically a weapon, then you are right and that would count as safe. Sneaky. For future reference, because you have the 2 weapon fighting feat, you can draw them both as a single move action (or as part of a move action with the +1 BAB requirement), right? I believe that regardless of two weapon fighting, you can still only draw one weapon as part of a move action. However, since drawing a weapon is a move action, I've always allowed my players with 2-weapon fighting to draw both weapons as a single move action. In case that's confusing... You can move & draw one weapon. OR You can draw both weapons as a move-action. (Which would still leave a standard action.) I cannot think of the direct rules where I got that from though.
Mind Rogue 07-31-05, 10:28 AM	If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (page 102), you can draw two light weapons or one handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one. Taken together, this means that if you have TWF, and you can draw one of them as a free action (because you are moving with a high BAB), you are able to draw the other one as a free action. It also means that you can just stand there and draw both of them as a move action.
Altaris13 07-31-05, 10:30 AM	Oh... My player's will be happy to hear that. :D
Altaris13 07-31-05, 12:09 PM	@Pittbull: Tactics for Aeryn were sent via email.
Zerone 07-31-05, 02:34 PM	Daeren Stronghammer vs. Sola Nicous (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6842863&postcount=168) is up. *•. Z
Pittbull 07-31-05, 02:40 PM	I have received all the tactics, the fight will be up tomorrow!
Luni 07-31-05, 02:56 PM	The fight between Zhaiyad and Brilf is up here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6842978&postcount=169) To make a long story short, the online roller was out to get Brilf. I'll write a story up tomorrow.
Cerebus13 07-31-05, 05:42 PM	Alex vs. Heindal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6844191&postcount=170) is up. SoulLord please read the comments at the end of the post, a lot of stuff to look over.
Kaigan 07-31-05, 06:33 PM	@Cerebus: Just a couple of things. 1) can you roll to see if my sleep arrows that missed are still intact. It's a 50% chance they are. 2) Silence is on me. And it radiates 15 ft out, so if heindel is within the 15ft, then he can't cast spells, or use wands etc, that need sound. Other than that, good fight.
Cerebus13 07-31-05, 07:24 PM	@Kaigan Sadly both of your arrows broke, so that is a bit more cash wasted I'm afraid. The end result of the battle did not change due to me forgetting about Silence, however Heindal didn't end up using his Scroll of Scorching Ray this time around.
King Uther 07-31-05, 07:35 PM	@Zerone There are some discrepancies in the fight. First, sleep is a 1 round casting time spell, meaning the spell could not be finished for at least one more round. Can you use a pearl of power and cast a spell in the same round? Also, I didn't see a roll for tasha's duration, and if it was low enough Mr. Stronghammer would be out of it before the second sleep was cast. A Coup de Grace with a bow can only happen if the opponent is in an adjacent square. So he'll have to close first.
TelinArtho 07-31-05, 08:15 PM	Well King Uther got to my complaints before I did. To review: 1. Sleep is a full round casting time. 2. Using a Pearl is a standard action, so he definitely wouldn't have gotten off the second sleep spell in the same round. 2. Specify the number of rounds Daeren is affected by the Hideous Laughter (if it was rolled, and the result a 3, I just want to see it there...) 3. Coup de Grace with the bow cannot be from range. If you could address these, that would be great. EDIT: Actually, just looked up Hideous Laughter and apparently it is now 1round/level - changed from 3.0 - so feel free to ignore that part... cast Laughter, (I laugh) next round - cast sleep (I laugh)- next round use PoP (I laugh) - next round start casting Sleep - I get one action in before it goes off. Hopefully it will hit and I either disrupt the spell or knock him down... /d
Zerone 07-31-05, 10:15 PM	Daeren Stronghammer vs. Sola Nicous (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6842863&postcount=168) 1. Edited the Sleeps. Due to this edit, I had to implement Sola's tactics to move away if the first Sleep failed to keep things fair according to tactics. 2. I had the way a Pearl worked incorrect. Changed. 3. Come on people... he's sleeping for 30 rounds... I think it goes without saying that Sola can close the distance and CDG in that time...? ;) Thanks for correcting the fight. :) *•. Z
TelinArtho 07-31-05, 10:46 PM	Well, it does make a difference on how far away he is. My familiar is in my square (since he didn't go elsewhere), and one would assume my familiar would be able to wake me up if I were to fall asleep (being an intelligent creature and realizing impending doom is to come). I realize I didn't write this in my tactics, but with even one round between when I fall asleep and he comes to CDG - I could easily be woken up. /d
Zerone 07-31-05, 10:52 PM	Well, it does make a difference on how far away he is. My familiar is in my square (since he didn't go elsewhere), and one would assume my familiar would be able to wake me up if I were to fall asleep (being an intelligent creature and realizing impending doom is to come). I realize I didn't write this in my tactics, but with even one round between when I fall asleep and he comes to CDG - I could easily be woken up. /d You have to PM the Pitlords to ask them for a ruling on that. For now, I have to let the fight stand as is till Cat or some Elder's come out of the woodwork and say that your familiar would wake you. Hope you understand, :) *•. Z
TelinArtho 07-31-05, 11:00 PM	PM Sent.
King Uther 07-31-05, 11:46 PM	Santos vs Ariel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6822892&postcount=161) is up. It proved to be interesting, like I said. I had to deviate slightly for both of you, or you would both be acting like idiots until one of you died.
King Uther 08-01-05, 12:05 AM	@ Zerone and TelinArtho If the distance can be closed in one move, it doesn't matter if you can be waked. After sleep was finished, Sola would have closed the gap then and still had a standard action to perform that round. CDG is not a standard action however, but it could be used to attack you or your familiar.
Luni 08-01-05, 12:12 AM	@King Uther: Every fight is a learning experience! Actually, I thought he would grapple me, and that is why I used the stone. I'm not an expert gladiator yet, but one day, everyone will fear me. :D
Gonbow 08-01-05, 12:12 AM	Santos vs Ariel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6822892&postcount=161) is up. It proved to be interesting, like I said. I had to deviate slightly for both of you, or you would both be acting like idiots until one of you died. Your quite right with my tactics mistake. This was only the second fight for Santos, didn't quite have all the rules down. The deviations are acceptable and I don't see anything amiss with the fight or various parts thereof. Given my AC, I didn't think the skeletons would be able to land a blow, see the 49-round fight I posted a bit ago for an example of how long you can go between 20s :P Duly noted as of the soft cover though... I'll have to position myself to have a clear LOS between a summoner and its minions next time. And wait to drink the Pro Evil too; That would have helped kept the skeletons off me if I had waited a few turns to use it. <shrugs> Good fight, thanks for running it.
Pittbull 08-01-05, 05:16 AM	Fight Maylee vs Aeryn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6848208&postcount=171) is up!
Pittbull 08-01-05, 05:22 AM	Also, it is logical to add it to the total PP. The bestowed powerpoints last all day so they are also used in all fights and actions that day (= full PP). OK, then they can be used for prebuffs too? There is only one mistake, if you've used up the bestowed PPs you can go out and buy some new....
Pitlords 08-01-05, 05:59 AM	Hey, with xp even :D About BestowPower PP prebuffs...let me think about it. Might be a problem at higher levels. Until then, yes, you can use 1/3 for prebuffs.
TelinArtho 08-01-05, 09:58 AM	This is the response from Pitlords Zerone: It wouldn't be the first time that a familiar woke someone up. Int 6 is more than some gladiators have This sounds to me that Pitlords agrees. As to the point that Uther brought up, my opponent is 95ft away. He can close the distance by running and my familiar wakes me up (CDG no longer possible). If he moves at less than a run though, he isn't going to get to me before I wake up, and unless he crits with his bow from point blank, I don't see him doing enough damage to take me out in one hit before my action after I've been woken up. In that case, this is a very pivitol moment of my fight. (Small note: Also on my last attack, I got a -2 from range with my crossbow. The distance between me and my foe is only 95ft - so I would not receive this penalty. I still would have missed, but just wanted to point it out.)
King Uther 08-01-05, 11:07 AM	@Pittbull Hey man, you forgot about the 1-round casting time of sleep. This would give Aeryn a chance to disrupt the spell in melee.
Pittbull 08-01-05, 11:11 AM	Oh, yes! I really need to change this. Then Maylee needs a bigger distance between her and Aeryn (at least a double-move), but he'll get an attack with his bow.
TCB 08-01-05, 12:29 PM	Ohmsford vs Niobe Proudfoot http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6850369&postcount=172 also rolls were done under the character name: (Ohmsford vs Niobe Proudfoot)
King Uther 08-01-05, 12:38 PM	@TCB See the number at the upper right of the post? That is the link. Also, True Strike was wasted in the fight because it has to be used by the end of the next round, and it wasn't.
Kaigan 08-01-05, 12:42 PM	To all my gladiators, I'm really sorry, I finished my fights last night, but it was late and needed sleep. I was going to post them this morning, but no time... My family's going to vancouver for the day, so I'll be posting sometime late afternoon, again sorry. Kaigan
Altaris13 08-01-05, 01:00 PM	Oh, yes! I really need to change this. Then Maylee needs a bigger distance between her and Aeryn (at least a double-move), but he'll get an attack with his bow. Why do you say that when she moved to try and get LOS? Just curious. ;)
Pittbull 08-01-05, 01:50 PM	The problem was that I did the mistake. It wasn't in her tactics. With her basemovement of 80ft per round she beats Aeryn with 30ft by far. this neglected his chances to get a melee-attack. So I decided to give him a shot with his bow to interrupt her casting, but again the on-line-roller hated you. Sorry mate, that was pretty unlucky. Interrupting is good tactic against her with that low concentration skill! Please buy a longbow, 60ft range-increment is really not enough.
Mind Rogue 08-01-05, 03:13 PM	Ohmsford vs Niobe Proudfoot http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6850369&postcount=172 also rolls were done under the character name: (Ohmsford vs Niobe Proudfoot) Some comments about the fight: Prefight: We start so that we have complete cover against each other. There is no way that we could possibly have line of sight (the arena is actually designed for this exact purpose). Round 1: Having no line of sight, there is no way Ohmsford could have seen Niobe. Round 2: True Strike has a one round duration, not one minute. Since he didn't use it up by this round, True Strike is wasted. Round 4: As I said, True Strike has already expired, thus Ohmsford doesn't get the +20 bonus on his attack roll. Also, Pro: Law grants a +2 AC bonus against lawful opponents such as Ohmsford, meaning the Scorching Ray missed. Also, I get to deal (d2) nonlethal damage when I initiate the grapple. Finally, he cannot take an AoO with his fist, because he doesn't threaten me with it. Round 5: Niobe's grapple modifier is only -2, not -4. Thus Ohmsford loses because he rolled 5-1 = 4 vs 8 -2 = 6. Round 6: Ohmsford provokes an AoO by drinking his potion and by moving, although Niobe can only take one of them since she lacks combat reflexes. Also, because Snowball is tiny, it needs to enter Niobe's space to attack, which also provokes an AoO. Round 7: Snowball provokes another AoO by moving back into Niobe's space. So, as you can see, a lot of things could be changed about the fight, particularly Round 4, which could change things quite a bit (since Niobe will not be nearly so badly wounded).
Zerone 08-01-05, 04:12 PM	This is the response from Pitlords Zerone: Quote from Telin from Pitlords: It wouldn't be the first time that a familiar woke someone up. Int 6 is more than some gladiators have This sounds to me that Pitlords agrees. As to the point that Uther brought up, my opponent is 95ft away. He can close the distance by running and my familiar wakes me up (CDG no longer possible). If he moves at less than a run though, he isn't going to get to me before I wake up, and unless he crits with his bow from point blank, I don't see him doing enough damage to take me out in one hit before my action after I've been woken up. In that case, this is a very pivitol moment of my fight. (Small note: Also on my last attack, I got a -2 from range with my crossbow. The distance between me and my foe is only 95ft - so I would not receive this penalty. I still would have missed, but just wanted to point it out.) That's great and all, but since you never mentioned anything about your familiar nor his whereabouts, how am I supposed to know where he is? Suppose that he is in your pocket and you fall on him as you lay down to sleep? How is he to wake you then? No way is a bat's Str high enough to do that. I still need the Pitlords to tell me to change the current fight in question before I will take any further action. Also, how am I to know where the familiar is in comparison to his master? How then, do I decide who is closer to the origin of the Sleep spell, as it is quite possible that the familiar was closer, and then just he would take the spell? How am I supposed to make that decision? How do I make it fairly? And the list goes on… @ Everyone: This is a big problem that I have with the CoCo and I've had these feelings ever since I joined - what is unfair behavior on the part of the DM when playing anothers character when their tactics don't cover a given situation? How much help is too much help, leading to unfairness? Part of the lure of the CoCo is the ability to outwit my opponent's tactics. Throw in the DM’s advice and on the fly changing and now my tactics are no longer good. So this actually benefits the character who writes poor tactics, especially when the presiding Pitlord decides to alter tactics to fit the situation. There is a fine line between fair and unfair, and I believe that most Pitlords cross into the realm of unfairness… So what am I saying? I don’t feel correct in allowing your familiar, who has taken no part in this fight up till now, to save you from your impending doom after you have the facts presented to you. I believe that it should be chalked up to experience and trust that you won’t make the same mistake twice. If the presiding Pitlord gives aid to those who’s tactics are in need, then that particular gladiator will not become better at writing tactics and understanding/implementing the rules, but rather become dependant upon the presiding Pitlords ability to defend their character in a time of need. Please do not take this personally, this is how I feel and this is a sensitive topic. Where should the line be drawn for Pitlord creativity vs. weak tactics? Is it fair to the other gladiator to be defeated because the Pitlord intervened to improvised upon ‘poorly written, unexplained, unorganized, incorrect, and/or faulty tactics for the situation? No. But what is fair then? I would like to hear some comments/concerns on this topic. There are many new members and they have never been a part of this topic. I look forward to your responses. *•. Z
TelinArtho 08-01-05, 04:26 PM	@Zerone - I am simply arguing my case. I'm actually fine with specifying from now on for all of my characters that if my character goes down and he has a cohort/companion/familiar/something else - to explicitly instruct it to wake me up. I don't think it is unreasonable to have my familiar do that without specifying so, but at the same time - you are right - I won't make the same mistake twice. I am simply arguing my case. If you notice, I ask a lot of questions - I try to see around the problems that my characters get into or MIGHT get into. My first two weeks here and I am 0-4, yet I am learning quite a bit. Anyway - don't worry about fixing that part of the fight (unless Pitlords comes alive to support me :) ). I would not/have not held a pitlord in a negative light because my tactics were wrong or not well written.
madner 08-01-05, 04:31 PM	He could wake him up with an attack, however the familar would have to realize that he has to hurt his master in order to help him. Even 1 demage would be enough. Interesting dilema regarding the familar, I wonder whether that is the first time it has been brought up. Maybe a thread called "precedence cases" would be in order ;)
GuardianAngel 08-01-05, 04:31 PM	Alac Rensellaer (Pauper) vs Amion Dar'ath (Waywreth): http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6852569&postcount=173 Please read even if you arn't in it, need help so I don't make any mistakes.
michael_noah 08-01-05, 04:39 PM	heavy armor plus medium load makes you move 15' not 20'. This is incorrect. You use the worse of the two penalties - they don't stack somehow. So, he moves at 20'. The additional penalty for a heavy load is that he may only run at 3x instead of 4. Also, I'm pretty sure chill touch does not allow you to make more attacks in a round than your base attack bonus would allow. It merely means that if you don't use up the "charges" you can attack again later.
TelinArtho 08-01-05, 04:49 PM	@Guardian Angel: 1. Movement reduced by armor is not reduced by encumbrance unless it is over and above the armor's reduction. For instance: Light Armor - Light Load - normal movement Light Armor - Medium load - 2/3 movement Light Armor - Heavy Load - 2/3 movement (*3 run only) Medium Armor - Light Load - 2/3 movement Medium Armor - Medium load - 2/3 movement Medium Armor - Heavy Load - 2/3 movement (*3 run only) Heavy Armor - all loads - 2/3 movment (*3 run only) 2. Listen should be opposed by opponent's Move Silently check which would be modified by (+1) for dex, (-20) for running, (-ACP) for armor and distance (-1/10 feet). This is considerably worse than a DC5 check usually. 3. Unless it is specified elsewhere, using a wondrous item is a standard action 4. Chill touch gives the caster 1 touch/level, but not necessarily in the same round. It is limited by the character's # of attacks per round. So he would successfully cast the spell and make one touch and then another on the following round. Touch AC is 10+(Dex mod)+(size mod)+(Deflection mod)+(Dodge mod) (*there might be other modifiers, but those are the ones that come up most frequently). However, since the Max Dex for Halfplate is 0 - you are right - AC10 was the touch AC. 5. With regard to weapon finesse, I believe it does apply to touch attacks, so the character's sheet is correct.
Zerone 08-01-05, 04:52 PM	He could wake him up with an attack, however the familar would have to realize that he has to hurt his master in order to help him. Even 1 demage would be enough. Interesting dilema regarding the familar, I wonder whether that is the first time it has been brought up. Maybe a thread called "precedence cases" would be in order ;) I like that, sort of a 'Rules Lawyering' thread where you can look up similar cases and use that as evidence for or against a Pitlords ruling. That way we have a standard of procedure to follow in difficult situations where there can be no arguing over the ruling, but a movement could be made to have a revote to change a current Rule in effect, etc… I really like the idea, but it would take some work and many links to fights/FotW threads, etc. In all honesty, I’d be up for putting together some form of this for approval by the Pitlords, where the Elders could vote on what makes it and what doesn’t make it. Cat, what are you opinions? *•. Z
GuardianAngel 08-01-05, 04:55 PM	how come the spell doesn't state something like he gets additional touchs but can't use them unless he gets the BAB required? Just confusing is all the duration is instantanious so I thought they would be all at once. Ah well tahts why I never DM that much :weep: :P
TelinArtho 08-01-05, 05:01 PM	Touch spells, in general, can "hold the charge" as long as you don't cast a spell in between (and don't touch anything or anyone else). Chill touch is the only spell that I can think of that bestows multiple touches, so mechanically it is a little different, but the nature is the same. He just gets his touches on other rounds.
Zerone 08-01-05, 05:02 PM	how come the spell doesn't state something like he gets additional touchs but can't use them unless he gets the BAB required? Just confusing is all the duration is instantanious so I thought they would be all at once. Ah well tahts why I never DM that much :weep: :P I find that Pitlording/Dming is the fastest way to learn the rules. My knowledge of the 3.5 rules has increased many times over from my time here in the CoCo. I hope you are enjoying being a Pitlord, or at least try it if you haven't. It is frusterating at first, many mistakes are made, but is very enlightning and a sure way to improve your grasp over the rules of D&D. So, my hat's off to all of you who put forth the effort! :tiphat: *•. Z
Cerebus13 08-01-05, 05:31 PM	@Zerone I was working on this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6665808&postcount=145 ) the other day but didn't get very far. Basically any questions I come up with that seem unclear and get answered by the Elders could end up here. Seem like a good idea?
Mind Rogue 08-01-05, 05:43 PM	Alac Rensellaer (Pauper) vs Amion Dar'ath (Waywreth): http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6852569&postcount=173 Please read even if you arn't in it, need help so I don't make any mistakes. I'll try to give you some helpful criticism. General Please try to use somewhat complete sentences, with spaces between them, as this makes it easier to read. I also find that putting in a carriage return (line break) when it's the next person's turn to act also helps. Please either bold or underline the round titles and set it on its own line so that it is easier to read. I also believe in using names in the descriptions, then initials at the end of round summary, since it makes the fight description easier to read. Round 1 You are correct. Gladiators do not know in advance where the other starts and the arena is designed so that it is nigh impossible to have line of sight to your opponent when the battle starts. Also, as others have noted, the penalties for heavy armor and loads do not stack. Round 2 The listen DC for a walking armored character is the default move silently roll. You should actually make a m. silently check and take into account Ambellon's armor check penalty and dex bonus. Also, since both characters are clerics, you shouldn't refer to one of them as "the cleric". Antecedents missing, I can't tell for certain who fired the shot, but I think it was Alac (since the summary says he holds an empty heavy crossbow), but he doesn't get another action this round because he was bumped up by his ready action. Round 4 Activating most magic items is a standard action. Round 5 Alac only get's one touch attack this round (as part of casting the spell). He can touch again on future rounds because chill touch has multiple charges. Also, weapon finesse does indeed work with touch spells because they are delivered with an unarmed strike not intended to damage the opponent, and unarmed strikes work with Weapon Finesse. Round 6 Withdrawing from combat does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
GuardianAngel 08-01-05, 05:59 PM	Kraegin (TelinArtho) vs Malic, Avatar of Mist (Eatavegi) is up http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6853410&postcount=174 Ok lets get the Rants on this one :cool: :devil::heehee @mindrogue where does it say withdrawing from combat doesn't Provoke an AoO?
GuardianAngel 08-01-05, 06:01 PM	On my battles Atreyu (Guardian Angel) vs Goran the Beast (KerlanRayne): McJarvis Nyatar (Madner) vs Dagnal Undercut (Guardian Angel): McJarvis Mcjarvis takeing a nap or what :confused: :bounce: :bounce::bounce::bounce: I am just alittle anxy to see my guys do well.
TelinArtho 08-01-05, 06:10 PM	Kraegin (TelinArtho) vs Malic, Avatar of Mist (Eatavegi) is up http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6853410&postcount=174 Ok lets get the Rants on this one :cool: :devil::heehee The irony here is I had chosen the wrong creature to summon and I didn't even get to use any. Here's some comments, and none of them change anything about the fight (just for future reference): 1. In my tactics, I said to close to SW range, but nothing about anything closer until my summons are done or if he's trying to stay away from me. Not a big deal because his scorching ray wasn't likely to beat me anyway, but just something to point out. 2. I specifically mentioned that I wanted to use SMI next (this was to hopefully draw the fire of the Scorching Ray if it was going to be used). However, like I said, I was too close, so it wouldn't have gone off anyway (and I still would've failed my concentration check...). Thanks for pitlording. @mindrogue where does it say withdrawing from combat doesn't Provoke an AoO? In the SRD, Withdraw is a full round action that does not provoke an AoO (if the character is limited to less than a full round action, they can still do the withdraw action. (Look in the Combat section for the actions and whether they produce AoO).
Mind Rogue 08-01-05, 06:15 PM	Withdraw Withdrawing from melee combat is a full-round action. When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square. ... I'm just assuming that since Alac didn't do anything else that round and that he was dangerously low on Hp, that he would have withdrawn and therefore not provoked an AoO since I don't think he would be stupid enough to step into another threatened square.
GuardianAngel 08-01-05, 06:45 PM	if pauper wants me to I will run it where the withdraw comes up. but thats upto him. doesn't bother me at all.
Altaris13 08-01-05, 07:36 PM	The problem was that I did the mistake. It wasn't in her tactics. With her basemovement of 80ft per round she beats Aeryn with 30ft by far. this neglected his chances to get a melee-attack. So I decided to give him a shot with his bow to interrupt her casting, but again the on-line-roller hated you. Sorry mate, that was pretty unlucky. Interrupting is good tactic against her with that low concentration skill! Please buy a longbow, 60ft range-increment is really not enough. *nods* Yeah, I realized this morning that I need a long bow. I figure I'll wait until I can afford a strength bow, which means at least another fight. About the on-line roller: that program has it out for me! I swear it!!! ;) :rolleyes: @Zerone Though this is only my second full week here on the CoCo, I've seen some of what you talk about. From what little I have seen, I agree with what you've said. As a person, I am detailed orientated and (IMO) pretty familiar with the rules. I feel that a person who is vague with their tactics in the hopes that the PitLord will "run with it" is getting the advantage. And I feel that is an unfair advantage. However, a point in the other court: when you have tactics that simply don't work and/or don't cover something, it is also part of the Pitlords responsibility to run the PC as they feel said PC would act. Sometimes that means putting our minds in the mindset of the PC's player, which can lead to complications where we (as a PitLord) over-play the PC instead of remaining carefully neutral in the situation. On a side note, I have yet to actually PitLord a fight and have only been through two fights as a Player. With that in mind, take my thoughts as you will.
Prince FyreDragon 08-01-05, 07:46 PM	*nods* Yeah, I realized this morning that I need a long bow. I figure I'll wait until I can afford a strength bow, which means at least another fight. About the on-line roller: that program has it out for me! I swear it!!! ;) :rolleyes: @Zerone Though this is only my second full week here on the CoCo, I've seen some of what you talk about. From what little I have seen, I agree with what you've said. As a person, I am detailed orientated and (IMO) pretty familiar with the rules. I feel that a person who is vague with their tactics in the hopes that the PitLord will "run with it" is getting the advantage. And I feel that is an unfair advantage. However, a point in the other court: when you have tactics that simply don't work and/or don't cover something, it is also part of the Pitlords responsibility to run the PC as they feel said PC would act. Sometimes that means putting our minds in the mindset of the PC's player, which can lead to complications where we (as a PitLord) over-play the PC instead of remaining carefully neutral in the situation. On a side note, I have yet to actually PitLord a fight and have only been through two fights as a Player. With that in mind, take my thoughts as you will. I too, have only been here about 3 weeks, and I have noticed some of the same things. It seems there is a propensity on the part of the pitlords to play a character as neutral as possible if something comes up that is not covered in a player's tactics or if their tactics don't work for some reason. No one can see every eventuality, but people that are very specific with their tactics seems to come out behind vs those that have real general tactics. I can't provide any stats to back this up, but that is my perception. It would seem to me that in the event something like this happens, it should fall to the pitlord to run a character as if that character was their own to some degree, rather than just have the character act semi-unintelligent and not use all of their abilities and equipment to their fullest. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Pittbull 08-01-05, 07:57 PM	@Zerone: We have a saying in Germany: "Was Du nicht willst, was man Dir tut, das füg auch keinem anderen zu!" I don't know what the exact translation in english is, but the sense is: Treat others like you want to be treated! This is my prime codex in pitlording fights. And yes, you're right, sometimes it is a thin line, but then you have to decide from case to case. I'm strictly against playing characters like puppets.
Mind Rogue 08-01-05, 08:12 PM	That's almost word for word a saying that's gotten it's own name over here: The Golden Rule, "Treat others as you wish them to treat you."
xanadu 08-01-05, 08:20 PM	Prince, Altaris: Your points are both true and not true. It is true that if you write and rely on a very specific and narrow strategy, should it ever break down you are screwed. This is reflected in the "specific tactics lose fights" observation. That being said, people who write specific tactics and have contigencies win far more often than the general tactic writers. When their main tactics break down, there is something there for the Pitlord to fall back upon and thus the gladiator acts "intelligently" and/or "as you would have wanted them". Caterane wins lots of fights because his tactics are clear, short(ish), specific, and cover what to do if things go wrong. Look at his tactics and look at just about anyone elses. The difference is like night and day. It really helps if you emphasize things that are important. If you want to avoid melee at all costs, dont just describe archery tactics, also say "avoid melee at all costs." Pitlord handling of your character will often seem neutral because there are so many options and rare is it when the player and pitlord will come to the same conclusion. If the pitlord does something different than you might have, I think it is fair to say the Pitlord considered options, looked at your character sheet, and, even if you disagree with the action, still came to a reasonable option. The trick is never let the pitlord make such a decision. There is a fine balance between writing a book (bad from my experience) and writing enough to cover the unexpected. My advice is to be specific with your main tactic and give the pitlord a general idea what to do if something goes wrong and against the enemy's most likely form of attack.
xanadu 08-01-05, 08:31 PM	For my own curiosity, is this way of saying it old-fashioned or one of those southern-northern German things? "Was du nicht willst, dass man dir tu, das füg auch keinem andern zu." Immanuel Kant is famous for the saying/philosophy though I'd imagine he heard it elsewhere.
Kaigan 08-01-05, 11:18 PM	Boris vs. Anixx is up. Please scan for errors. My other fight, the 2v2, will not be posted tonight. I've gone over it a couple more times and discovered something that needs to be redone. I will be posting it tomorrow evening, so i will take the penalty of course. Sorry again for the lateness, I've had a busy weekend. kaigan
SoulLord 08-01-05, 11:33 PM	oma-no Sento vs Ormos is up! I'll try to add color comentary tomorrow Also sorry for it being posted so late but circumstances made it so.
TCB 08-02-05, 01:20 AM	Quoted by Mind-Rogue Prefight: We start so that we have complete cover against each other. There is no way that we could possibly have line of sight (the arena is actually designed for this exact purpose). Round 1: Having no line of sight, there is no way Ohmsford could have seen Niobe. Round 2: True Strike has a one round duration, not one minute. Since he didn't use it up by this round, True Strike is wasted. Round 4: As I said, True Strike has already expired, thus Ohmsford doesn't get the +20 bonus on his attack roll. Also, Pro: Law grants a +2 AC bonus against lawful opponents such as Ohmsford, meaning the Scorching Ray missed. Also, I get to deal (d2) nonlethal damage when I initiate the grapple. Finally, he cannot take an AoO with his fist, because he doesn't threaten me with it. Round 5: Niobe's grapple modifier is only -2, not -4. Thus Ohmsford loses because he rolled 5-1 = 4 vs 8 -2 = 6. Round 6: Ohmsford provokes an AoO by drinking his potion and by moving, although Niobe can only take one of them since she lacks combat reflexes. Also, because Snowball is tiny, it needs to enter Niobe's space to attack, which also provokes an AoO. Round 7: Snowball provokes another AoO by moving back into Niobe's space. Prefight- IF you both start as close to the center, Mind-rogues Tatics I'm going to start in the front and center square of my box (closest to the center), and your opponent O's Tatics (sorry late and I can;t spell) starting square 22,0 or equivalent starting You have line of sight plot them into a map, actual its a direct line. round1. He already saw you, you ran foward, not following him he went to see where you were. Note he is invisibile so he isnt that scared of you, you can't see him. He wanted to get close to you anyways becuase he needs within 30' round2. yes true strike is wasted sorry my bad round4. Even tho True strike was wasted he still gets his normal plus 5 to his range attack. so 20 vs your AC 17 still hits. Not sure where you get the fact you deal d2 non-leathal dmg, but in my PHB 3.5 under the rules it says its a melee touch attack. Read the action on the thing not what the discription says. round5. yes my bad again your modifier is only -2 I ran some sub-rounds until O breaks out or you knock him out. then took it back up again. round6. You are the one moveing and drinking the Potion sorry if its confusing the way I type but O never retrived any potion nor did he drink on. Note you both have 5' in bewteen you. round7. yes he did, and you struck him. but with out that combat reflex you only get one of these per round. I ran the fight for the grappleing rounds. he broke out and the same thing would have happned. Didn't feel it necerary to re-roll all the things again. Also I did use an Online Roller so you can check the rolls. I put notes in most of them so you can refrence them. Sorry you thought I ran it so poorly.
McJarvis 08-02-05, 01:53 AM	Nyatar (Madner) vs Dagnal Undercut (Guardian Angel) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6857267&postcount=177) is up. I think I did this fight the hard way...ugh. Hate it when my die roll to decide which way they travel ends up making them go all the way around the arena at first... EDIT- Goran Vs Atreyu (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6857835#post6857835) is up too.
Pittbull 08-02-05, 05:00 AM	For my own curiosity, is this way of saying it old-fashioned or one of those southern-northern German things? "Was du nicht willst, dass man dir tu, das füg auch keinem andern zu." Immanuel Kant is famous for the saying/philosophy though I'd imagine he heard it elsewhere. I think the Golden Rule is not from Kant, it's in the bible (NT)!
TelinArtho 08-02-05, 09:20 AM	@McJarvis regarding Nyatar vs Dagnal: 1. Potion of Bull's Strength is CL3 (minimum), so it lasts 30 rounds, not 10. 2. It doesn't seem like you are taking into account movement when someone goes to hide or move silently. Remember that if they move > 1/2 their speed, they suffer a -5 to MS and Hide. If they run, charge or attack, they get a -20 to MS and Hide. (I'm specifically looking at round 9 when Nyatar moves, also, Nyatar needs something to hide behind and simply doesn't. (So no hide possible there...)). In round 10, when Nyatar fires at Dagnal, he wouldn't be flat-footed because of the above. Also, since he shot in the round, when he moved and hid, he would still get a -20 to the Move Silently and Hide because he attacked in that round. In the end, these don't make any difference that I can tell other than that in round 22, Nyatar would be reduced to 1 hp (instead of 4) and in the following round, Nyatar would be at -9 (instead of -3).
TelinArtho 08-02-05, 09:43 AM	@McJarvis regarding Goran vs. Atreyu: 1. Round 1 actions from Goran include 2 standard actions (Claws of the Beast and Stone) and 1 move actions (35') 2. Round 4 - Goran's AC is marked as 15 - but with force screen up and raging, his AC should be 19. Falcor misses in this case. 3. Round 5 - Atreyu throws the flame at Goran who is in melee. If Atreyu doesn't want to chance hitting the elemental, he'll have to take a -4 penalty I believe since he doesn't have precise shot. Also, I believe the elemental will provide soft cover (a +4 AC for Goran). All of this is going to help Goran take less damage, so it doesn't make a difference in the end of the battle and Goran didn't use up any extra resources, so I don't think anything needs to be changed. I'm just noting these things so that we can all learn.
Altaris13 08-02-05, 10:12 AM	@Xanadu RE: Books I know what you mean. I was so eager to write explicit tactics for my first fight with Aeryn that I ended up with a book (which, I think, is why I lost that fight.) I wanted to cover every possible contingency so that IF something came up that I didn't think of, then at least the Pitlord would have a 'point of reference' to act from. And I think that is the heart of Zerone's point. I heartily agree with 'treat others as you want to be treated.' That is a 'golden rule' in many religions, not only Christianity (Karma anyone?) Rather than running a PC as you think it would act, I feel that a Pitlord should refer to the tactics presented as a point of reference. As well, a Pitlord should review the default tactics. And if the Pitlord is still unsure how to proceed, then look to the tactics on other fights. I know that sounds like a lot of work, and I know that I have yet to actually Pitlord myself. But we track every fight at the bottom of our character sheets, providing links to the fight in the process. Even though I've never ran a fight here on the CoCo, I have been a successful GM for a long time. Players come and go, sometimes from one week to another. Personally, I have always hated the 'purple spotted disease' method of dealing with absent players.(1) Instead, I prefer to DM the PC myself using what I've seen of the PC's actions in the past as a basis, and using Player input when unsure. This "keeps things real" and also benefits the PC (usually) as they get an equal share of XP & loot. I know that this method tends to break down when in 'communal' games as FLGS. There has to be a certain level of GM-Player trust. But since we are here taking part in the CoCo, I feel that as players we already have that level of trust. If we (as players) didn't have that trust, then we wouldn't be here. I say this because we are trusting our PCs to a person we've never seen before (and often never even spoken with) to Pitlord the fights. All in all, the point I'm getting at is this: rather than run a PC as 'we' (being the Pitlord) think it would act, we should run it as the player has presented the PC (in this case, through tactics.) Again, my experience here is limited and this is just my opinion. Ask me again in a few weeks and we'll see where I stand. :D (1) "Purple Spotted Disease" - a common phrase in my area - a means by which the DM 'ignores' a character because the Player is absent from a session. When the player returns, s/he is filled in on what occured and picks up with the group as things stand. The character is said to have 'purple spotted disease, an illness that strikes with suddeness and renders its victims insensible for its duration.'
Mind Rogue 08-02-05, 10:53 AM	Quoted by Mind-Rogue Prefight- IF you both start as close to the center, Mind-rogues Tatics and your opponent O's Tatics (sorry late and I can;t spell) You have line of sight plot them into a map, actual its a direct line. round1. He already saw you, you ran foward, not following him he went to see where you were. Note he is invisibile so he isnt that scared of you, you can't see him. He wanted to get close to you anyways becuase he needs within 30' round2. yes true strike is wasted sorry my bad round4. Even tho True strike was wasted he still gets his normal plus 5 to his range attack. so 20 vs your AC 17 still hits. Not sure where you get the fact you deal d2 non-leathal dmg, but in my PHB 3.5 under the rules it says its a melee touch attack. Read the action on the thing not what the discription says. round5. yes my bad again your modifier is only -2 I ran some sub-rounds until O breaks out or you knock him out. then took it back up again. round6. You are the one moveing and drinking the Potion sorry if its confusing the way I type but O never retrived any potion nor did he drink on. Note you both have 5' in bewteen you. round7. yes he did, and you struck him. but with out that combat reflex you only get one of these per round. I ran the fight for the grappleing rounds. he broke out and the same thing would have happned. Didn't feel it necerary to re-roll all the things again. Also I did use an Online Roller so you can check the rolls. I put notes in most of them so you can refrence them. Sorry you thought I ran it so poorly. Hmmm, I might have to be careful about the possibilities of LoS in the future. As for damage while grappling.... Step 3: Hold Make an opposed grapple check as a free action. If you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike. However, I recognize that I can't add up enough damage to knock him out: I admit defeat. Funny, I now possess the highest and the lowest ranked level 3 characters in gladius. It's probably a sign that it's time for Niobe to retire.
McJarvis 08-02-05, 10:54 AM	@McJarvis regarding Goran vs. Atreyu: 1. Round 1 actions from Goran include 2 standard actions (Claws of the Beast and Stone) and 1 move actions (35') 2. Round 4 - Goran's AC is marked as 15 - but with force screen up and raging, his AC should be 19. Falcor misses in this case. Claws of the Beast is a Swift action his AC was calculated: 17+4(force screen)-2(rage)-4(reckless offense) Regarding other errors: Thanks for mentioning them! I'm just glad they didn't change the end of the fights....heh
TelinArtho 08-02-05, 11:02 AM	I stand corrected - didn't realize it was a swift action (obviously...). Also on the matter of the ac didn't see the reckless offense.
King Uther 08-02-05, 11:11 AM	While Immanuel Kant did get that from the Bible, he was a true genius for his time by implementing the rationalist and empirical philosophies as far as the human mind goes(1). 1 - I did a 72 page paper on A Critique of Pure Reason.
madner 08-02-05, 11:28 AM	Nyatar (Madner) vs Dagnal Undercut (Guardian Angel) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6857267&postcount=177) is up. I think I did this fight the hard way...ugh. Hate it when my die roll to decide which way they travel ends up making them go all the way around the arena at first... EDIT- Goran Vs Atreyu (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6857835#post6857835) is up too. Nice pitlording You followed my tactics well, however I do some complains. 1. I had 4 scrolls of exp. retreat to renew the spell. It was my fault that I didn't specify that they should be used so I will mark it as experince for me :D 2. When he dropped his shield he lost the AC bonus, making it 17. 3. His flatfooted AC is 19, so I scored a hit. 4. Last but not least, my char should have used his 2 pp for a mind trust.
Luni 08-02-05, 11:44 AM	The story between Brilf and Zhaiyad is up here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6842978&postcount=169) @Zerone: I'm bad for putting up generalish tactics. I pretty much send the Pitlords to prepare for one thing only, and completely forget that monks have slings and don't all grapple. Or some characters have potions of fly. As for pitlording, if someone does not mention their familiar in their tactics in any way, I'd assume they left it in the stands, so they get to keep their bonuses, but it won't participate in the fight.
McJarvis 08-02-05, 11:51 AM	Nice pitlording You followed my tactics well, however I do some complains. 1. I had 4 scrolls of exp. retreat to renew the spell. It was my fault that I didn't specify that they should be used so I will mark it as experince for me :D 2. When he dropped his shield he lost the AC bonus, making it 17. 3. His flatfooted AC is 19, so I scored a hit. 4. Last but not least, my char should have used his 2 pp for a mind trust. Aw man, I hate forgetting peoples tactics.... *sees if other guy would have made his will save* *rolls* (12)+3=15.... That woulda negated the damage. Ah well, no harm done :) H'mm...his flat footed AC is 21 because of his shield of faith(norm 19+2(shield of faith)=21), so I don't think you hit. After he dropped his shield you never rolled high enough to hit his newly modified ac anyway. And I'm glad you think I did well with your tactics. I don't think you expected the total cover from the shield to negate your truestrike...so I had to improv with the run/hide tactics.
madner 08-02-05, 11:57 AM	Darn, I need to change my tactics to get rid of the dices, they don't like me :D
waywreth 08-02-05, 12:18 PM	I'm just assuming that since Alac didn't do anything else that round and that he was dangerously low on Hp, that he would have withdrawn and therefore not provoked an AoO since I don't think he would be stupid enough to step into another threatened square. Just a note here about the fight - He was at 0 hp and thus disabled. He can't withdraw as it's a full round action to do so, only having one chance to cast a cure light wounds (which requires a concentration check and does 1 pt of dmg as a strenuous action). And he has one cleric and two blue glowy longswords trying to wack him. Withdraw: A character with 0 hit points, or one who has negative hit points but has become stable and conscious, is disabled. A disabled character may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can she take full-round actions). She moves at half speed. My swords got some lucky rolls. The dice gods were with me. =)
TelinArtho 08-02-05, 12:45 PM	From the SRD: Withdraw5 No (AoO) The footnote points to the following: 5 May be taken as a standard action if you are limited to taking only a single action in a round
waywreth 08-02-05, 12:51 PM	From the SRD: The footnote points to the following: Hmm I failed to notice that. Although even if he withdraws (half speed), the charging cleric and two longswords would likely prove to be his downfall.
TelinArtho 08-02-05, 12:53 PM	Well, I agree that it wasn't going to save him, but I just wanted to make sure correct information was presented.
Gonbow 08-02-05, 04:26 PM	Dameon vrs Milo is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6862622). I mispelled Dameon's name as Daemon multiple times; force of habit. If there is anything wrong with the fight, please speak up sooner rather than later, as I'm heading out until thursday at 2 am.
TelinArtho 08-02-05, 04:49 PM	@Gonbow regarding Dameon vs Milo: 1. When attacking and then rehiding, you should use a -20 modifier to both MS and Hide because the character attacked, rather than a -5 for moving greater than 1/2 speed. This could be a big help in clarifying the battle because LOS kept on getting cut off. 2. Grappling comment in Dameon's tactics - he's got spiked armor - that's where he was getting the additional lethal damage from. 3. Invisibility potions are CL3 at a minimum so it lasts 3 minutes (30 rounds) - in this case it didn't matter because he attacked before then - but just for future reference.
Gonbow 08-02-05, 05:30 PM	@Gonbow regarding Dameon vs Milo: 1. When attacking and then rehiding, you should use a -20 modifier to both MS and Hide because the character attacked, rather than a -5 for moving greater than 1/2 speed. This could be a big help in clarifying the battle because LOS kept on getting cut off. 2. Grappling comment in Dameon's tactics - he's got spiked armor - that's where he was getting the additional lethal damage from. 3. Invisibility potions are CL3 at a minimum so it lasts 3 minutes (30 rounds) - in this case it didn't matter because he attacked before then - but just for future reference. 1. Except for the fact that there is no -20 to MS because you attacked. That penalty only applies to Hide. Which is why he always moved to completely break LOS so he didn't /have/ to hide. From SRD: Check: Your Hide check is opposed by the Spot check of anyone who might see you. You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging. and Check: Your Move Silently check is opposed by the Listen check of anyone who might hear you. You can move up to one-half your normal speed at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your full speed, you take a –5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to move silently while running or charging. See the difference? 2. Ahhh, that is what I mised. Thanks. 3. Doh. Good point ^_^
TelinArtho 08-02-05, 05:36 PM	Yup... I see the difference. Not sure why I thought it was to both (probably because they are worded in the exact same way, just with one word omitted...). Oh well - retraction then.
Huan 08-02-05, 09:15 PM	@Gonbow Some other mistakes regarding Dameon vs Milo: -My spot vs his re-hide after sniping would be reactive, so there is a good chance I see where he is firing and can follow even if he does break LOS... this matters in a few rounds like round 4, so Dameon would not have wandered about lost in the next round. -My Vigor powerstones DID provide 10 HP rather than 5 because they were ML2. (and those 10 HP WOULD have made a big difference). Also, Vigor provides only temporay HP, so it would nto stack with itself... if I needed consecutive HP recovery, I would have used a potion instead of a stone in Round 10 (thus that is 10 more HP for another round). Finally, drinking things like potions and actively recovering does not count against the 10-round limit. -My armor spikes also count as martial weapons, meaning I threaten melee range even without a weapon in hand. This is big deal since it means I could have taken the AoO in Round 7 and 8 (l from which I could have made more grapple attempts). -Suicide or not, my tactics are my tactics ...While I appreciate the concern extended to me, Milo had his bow out, so Dameon would have rushed in with continuous grapple attempts like it said in my tactics... across 9 rounds (likely more, since you misunderstood how my Vigor worked), I think it may have connected somewhere. -May I recommend using an online dice roller in the future. With these multiple details, which can alter the fight, in mind, I would really appreciate it if you reran the fight. (remember that all corresponding rolls are preserved in the rerun.)
Gonbow 08-02-05, 09:28 PM	@Gonbow Some other mistakes regarding Dameon vs Milo: -My spot vs his re-hide after sniping would be reactive, so there is a good chance I see where he is firing and can follow even if he does break LOS... this matters in a few rounds like round 4, so Dameon would not have wandered about lost in the next round. -My Vigor powerstones DID provide 10 HP rather than 5 because they were ML2. (and those 10 HP WOULD have made a big difference). Also, Vigor provides only temporay HP, so it would nto stack with itself... if I needed consecutive HP recovery, I would have used a potion instead of a stone in Round 10 (thus that is 10 more HP for another round). Finally, drinking things like potions and actively recovering does not count against the 10-round limit. -My armor spikes also count as martial weapons, meaning I threaten melee range even without a weapon in hand. This is big deal since it means I could have taken the AoO in Round 7 and 8 (l from which I could have made more grapple attempts). -Suicide or not, my tactics are my tactics ...While I appreciate the concern extended to me, Milo had his bow out, so Dameon would have rushed in with continuous grapple attempts like it said in my tactics... across 9 rounds (likely more, since you misunderstood how my Vigor worked), I think it may have connected somewhere. -May I recommend using an online dice roller in the future. With these multiple details, which can alter the fight, in mind, I would really appreciate it if you reran the fight. (remember that all corresponding rolls are preserved in the rerun.) 1. Sure, you always knew what direction he went and I played your character having that knowledge. 2. Agh. Well. That DOES change things, as you would have been alive for considerably longer. 3. Your right, I completely forgot about your armor spikes. I'll see if the missed damage would have totaled up to enough to knock Milo out/force him to use a cure potion. 4. Damned if you do, damned if you dont... I'll err on the side of following tactics in future, I suppose. 5. You can recommend it, but I'm not about to, quite honestly. It took about two hours to run that fight, which would easily have been increased by another hour if I had posted links to every single roll. A slightly easier way is to create a log of the rolls and just link to the log itself, which I will probably try out the next time I do a fight. In the end, I'll have to try rerunning this fight. I don't have all that much time before I leave for the week, but I should be able to finish the alterations and repost it. I don't honestly expect the result to change however, given your insistence on attempting to grapple.
Huan 08-02-05, 10:08 PM	Thank you, though if you are strapped for time, perhaps you might consider passing the rerun to any of the available pitlords now (if that is possible).
Kaigan 08-02-05, 11:06 PM	Adlar & Ansom vs. Farfinar & Mythos is up, please scan for additional errors. Sorry it's up late.
Gonbow 08-02-05, 11:59 PM	Changes to Dameon vrs Milo made; keeping track of the rolls was slightly annoying, but I did end up doing alot less move silently rolls than last time, as the one turn different let Dameon keep in LOS for awhile longer. The end result did not change, but a few less equipment was used on both sides of the fight.
NedTheDestroyer 08-03-05, 12:38 AM	@kaigan Just curious but did my last team fight get the exp wrong or did you? Just wondering.
Pitlords 08-03-05, 08:31 AM	I've just received word from Malither that he cannot finish his fights. If someone could take it over and run it before the deadline that would be cool. Otherwise I extend them into next week. Any takers?
Pittbull 08-03-05, 08:49 AM	I have nothing to do the next two hours! Give me: Ambellon the Calm (TelinArtho) vs Yoriko Obato (Mind Rogue): Malither I hope, you have the tactics.
Pitlords 08-03-05, 08:55 AM	No, he hasn't sent them to me :crazy: I hope he reads my PM. Else I will assign him missing penalties later. Or the players send the tactics to you. What about the other fight? Juntar Dunecrosser (KerlanRayne) vs Raphael Hrethgir (Pete278)
TelinArtho 08-03-05, 08:59 AM	I can take the other fight if I can get tactics in the next few hours. @Pitbull - sending you the tactics for Ambellon now... EDIT: Sent
Pittbull 08-03-05, 09:16 AM	I have a problem with Yoriko Obato's equipment: Expendable Items Potion of Mage Armor [cl 1] [50 gp] 2 Potions of Cure Moderate Wounds [cl 3] [600 gp] Potion of Cure Light Wounds [cl 1] [50 gp] Potion of Enlarge Person [cl 1] [50 gp] Potion of Magic Fang [cl 1] [50 gp] 2 Tanglefoot Bags [8 lbs, 100 gp] Antitoxin [50 gp] Thunderstone [1 lb, 30 gp] A potion of Enlarge Person costs 250gp and is CL5, did we change this? I know there has been a discussion, but I don't know the result. Yoriko is short of money, so that might affect her tactic if isn't allowed to bring in the CL1 potion.
Zerone 08-03-05, 09:41 AM	A potion of Enlarge Person costs 250gp and is CL5, did we change this? I know there has been a discussion, but I don't know the result. No. A Potion of Enlarge Person costs 250gp and is CL 1. Look at how many scrolls have different costs for the same level. Enlarge Person is one of the more powerful 1st level spells for a non-caster. That is why it has the increased cost. *•. Z
Altaris13 08-03-05, 10:03 AM	No. A Potion of Enlarge Person costs 250gp and is CL 1. Look at how many scrolls have different costs for the same level. Enlarge Person is one of the more powerful 1st level spells for a non-caster. That is why it has the increased cost. *•. Z Has there been an official ruling on that? 250gp is the exact cost it would be for CL 5. We were discussing this the other day in the Tavern thread and there seemed to be a general consensus that a Potion of Enlarge Person and a Potion of Reduce Person are both CL5 (Both being 250gp.)
michael_noah 08-03-05, 10:05 AM	I'm pretty sure that the Enlarge Person potion is not CL 1. There's nothing pointing it out. If you look at scrolls that have higher prices, you'll note that they are all, or almost all, because of expensive components, or because the required caster level for the class granting the spell is higher than you'd expect (arcand CLW, for example). We should probably get an Elder ruling on this.
Maverick Knight 08-03-05, 10:11 AM	@ kaigan: Wow, didn't see that one coming. Adlar rolled a 1 on his yell? Man, what a break. Oh well, it was all fair that I can see, so good job though it was late. What did you mean, "protection" when doing the opening buffs? Like getting my partner to watch out for me, or what? Then he wouldn't be able to buff himself...
Pitlords 08-03-05, 10:56 AM	A 250 gp potion of a 1st level spell must be CL 5. The formula is clear (50*CL*Spell-lvl). There can be no other answer. You can buy customized potions in the Blackmarket.
Zerone 08-03-05, 11:15 AM	A 250 gp potion of a 1st level spell must be CL 5. The formula is clear (25*CL*Spell-lvl). There can be no other answer. You can buy customized potions in the Blackmarket. While I'd love for that to be true, then why does it not say this anywhere within the DMG/SRD? Because that is the price for a CL1 Enlarge Person Potion, that's why. Why is it that 'we' as the CoCo can use rational and logic for some things and not others? Why then, can we not Hide with the Blur spell? It says it grants us concealment, exactly what the rules say is needed for hiding, but a potion of Enlarge is listed as a price and we are changing the listed price without any Core Rule to back it with, only rational and logic? Where's the logic in that? :D *•. Z
McJarvis 08-03-05, 11:18 AM	Why then, can we not Hide with the Blur spell? *•. Z Same reason we can't use tower shields to hide? B-) I can see it now: The rogue walks next to the pillar in plain sight, throws up his tower shield, then drops it....and he's gone! like a magic trick. Actually, I think we can't hide with blur because it was argued to death...
Zerone 08-03-05, 11:24 AM	Same reason we can't use tower shields to hide? B-) I can see it now: The rogue walks next to the pillar in plain sight, throws up his tower shield, then drops it....and he's gone! like a magic trick. Actually, I think we can't hide with blur because it was argued to death... My point was on the use of logic and reason with the D&D world we so call the CoCo. And since everyone I have discussed these concepts with has stated that Logic and Reason do not pertain to the CoCo/D&D world, then why implement them now? *•. Z
Huan 08-03-05, 11:28 AM	@Gonbow Umm... Why did you give Milo a base speed of 30 all of a sudden (starting at round 8)? He has base speed 20 and I have base speed 30... there is no reason why he is outrunning me. And why did you have him move diagonally through corners in some rounds? (if you read up on Movement, you'll see this is illegal). Once again this is a very important factor that could alter the fight. (sorry to pester, but its true) Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the loss... but if I must lose, then it should be legally.
TelinArtho 08-03-05, 11:30 AM	Well Zerone, here I'm going to have to disagree with you. ALL of the potions follow the exact formula of (50xCLxSL *) in the SRD. If Reduce and Enlarge are CL1, then the people crafting them are making a killing... and there should be some explanation in the rules as to why. Since it was not explained why, then the assumption is that a Potion of Reduce or Enlarge person is in fact CL5. * Note this is different than the incorrect formula listed by Pitlords... I'm sure he just misspoke...
Huan 08-03-05, 11:32 AM	My input on why you cannot hide with blur or other similar effects that grant concealment, is that is does not break LOS to the opponent, which is what Hide relies on. You are still in plain sight, and observed by the opponent. Thus, I believe hiding is not possible without concealment from cover, and not merely concealment for miss chance.
TelinArtho 08-03-05, 11:35 AM	I have not yet received tactics for the Juntar vs Raphael fight, however, I've had the time to do a test run without tactics (this is to save me time and have rolls done before time, so if tactics are received later, I can edit it). I will refrain from posting it immediately, but if it is close to the time for pairings, I will post it, so the players can get their characters active for next week. /d
Pittbull 08-03-05, 11:43 AM	I'm waiting for Mindrogue's tactic too. Sorry, I won't use default tactics, it wouldn't be fair. If I don't get the fight up today, it'll be posted for sure tomorrow.
Zerone 08-03-05, 11:48 AM	My input on why you cannot hide with blur or other similar effects that grant concealment, is that is does not break LOS to the opponent, which is what Hide relies on. You are still in plain sight, and observed by the opponent. Thus, I believe hiding is not possible without concealment from cover, and not merely concealment for miss chance. Note: This is a different topic than my post above... Example: I am under the effects of a Blur. I Hide behide Cover and move away from Cover. By the rules, I am still hiding, even with LoS from my opponent, because I am Hiding due to having Concealment. My opponent has not Spotted me yet, so I am Hiding. When they Spot me, then I would have to regain Cover/break LoS and then re-Hide. Then I could move away again until they Spot me again. *•. Z
TelinArtho 08-03-05, 11:49 AM	Well, the only reason I wanted to get in Ambellon this week is because he was going inactive next week and I already paid a credit for 3 fights this week. I'll suck it up if I have to pay an extra credit again next week though. I can understand not wanting to run with default tactics though. I guess I'll just have to hope either Malither sends them to you or Mind Rogue does...
Pitlords 08-03-05, 11:49 AM	@Telin: Right. I accidently wrote 25. That's for scrolls. Meant 50 of course. @Zoro: If we stop using logic, then we will see the weirdest effects that blow up our imagination and replace it with a rigid rules construct. If my blurred opponoment who is 5ft infront me is invisible to my character, then I don't see an epic battle but that stupid rules construct which makes me look like :bored: I hope you do not think that WotC has written up perfect rules!? There's even an expression for 'Logic in D&D'. Opposed to RAW (Rules as Written) there's the term of RAI (Rules as Intended) and this is what we will use here. @Telin/Pittbull: If you don't get tactics, don't run it. Malither should have told us earlier anyway and he knows that he needs to forward tactics if he wants the fight to be reassigned. These fights are basically still hisses.
TelinArtho 08-03-05, 11:51 AM	Zerone - you are partially right: You would still be hiding as long as you have at least 1 rank in hide for every foot away from cover you are. If you adjacent to cover, then yes, you still are hidden, however, if you are not, and don't have at least 5 ranks in hide - you are not. (By moving out from cover again, your opponent gets a reactive spot check. If you have no ranks and are adjacent to cover, he auto spots you; if you have 1 rank, he spots against your hide check).
TelinArtho 08-03-05, 11:54 AM	@Pitlords - no problem. Like I said, I wrote something up, just so I would have the rolls ready. If I don't get tactics - I won't post the fight. Regarding Ambellon's fight though, what happens with my credits: Last week I had 3 gladiators - so -1 credit. However, 1 fight is carried over, so only 2 ran. In next week, I intended to drop him from my active list for the week, leaving me with 3 again. However, now I'll have 4 - and I'll pay a 2nd credit for him? I'm more curious than anything else, but I'd rather my credits be used for things I actually have control over... /d
Prince FyreDragon 08-03-05, 11:55 AM	@Telin/Pittbull: If you don't get tactics, don't run it. Malither should have told us earlier anyway and he knows that he needs to forward tactics if he wants the fight to be reassigned. These fights are basically still hisses. Great....now our Emperor Cat iss turning into Gollumses....doess that make CoCo hiss preciousss?
Zerone 08-03-05, 12:08 PM	@Telin: Right. I accidently wrote 25. That's for scrolls. Meant 50 of course. @Zoro: If we stop using logic, then we will see the weirdest effects that blow up our imagination and replace it with a rigid rules construct. If my blurred opponoment who is 5ft infront me is invisible to my character, then I don't see an epic battle but that stupid rules construct which makes me look like :bored: My point was, whenever I bring up an issue with Logic and the Rules, I get told to 'not cause trouble' because logic doesn't have a place in D&D, and I was wondering if someone could define the determining factor of what is needed for the Logic Meter to kick in? I'm not arguing for arguing sake, I'm arguing for consistency... which equates to fairness. I'm fine with the ruling that Blur will not work. However, you are making the ruling based on Logic and there is a Logical counterargument - as is the case with the Enlarge Potion. So, next time I bring up a complaint based on Logic I expect it to be treated likewise - fairly, and not to be told that Logic and D&D rules do not mix, which has been the case four to many more times in the past. Rules are to be judicial, not biased. I hope you do not think that WotC has written up perfect rules!? There's even an expression for 'Logic in D&D'. Opposed to RAW (Rules as Written) there's the term of RAI (Rules as Intended) and this is what we will use here. No, they haven't written perfect rules. But where does this expression come from - RAW vs. RAI? Who came up with it? Etc...? *•. Z
Mind Rogue 08-03-05, 01:04 PM	I have nothing to do the next two hours! Give me: Ambellon the Calm (TelinArtho) vs Yoriko Obato (Mind Rogue): Malither I hope, you have the tactics. I've forwarded my tactics to you, Pittbull. Sorry I didn't send them sooner, but I haven't been online since the match got reassigned. It's a good thing though that I hadn't cleaned out my outbox yet.
Pittbull 08-03-05, 04:16 PM	Ambellon the Calm (TelinArtho) vs Yoriko Obato (Mind Rogue) is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6871608&postcount=181)!
TelinArtho 08-03-05, 04:22 PM	Thanks for getting the fight in. Ambellon thanks you before he retires for a few weeks... Also, I could be wrong, but I think the xp/gp should be 675/675 and 375/375. The light warhorse is CR1, so it takes 25% of the final tally.
Mind Rogue 08-03-05, 04:33 PM	Only a few quick comments on the fight, before I have to make adjustments to Yoriko. First, my tactics were to start on the left side of the starting place (at -4) so that would actually put me in the other corner, although I actually intended to start in the square that I now realize is occupied by a rock. I should have started in the darn default square. However, I accept this as a minor part of the fight, and I should have been more explicit. Second, Monks get to keep their wisdom bonus to AC while flatfooted, and the deflection bonus from my ring of protection also counts while flat-footed, which in the first round brings my AC to 14 +4 (cover) for 18, negating the crossbow bolt even though I couldn't use deflect arrows at the time. In round 3, I don't think having a reach weapon negates cover, but it doesn't matter cause it would have hit anyway. I don't think Yoriko can use tumble to stand up without provoking an AoO (meaning Ambellon should get one). Also, since she's this close to her opponent, she should have stepped forward and started grappling rather than throwing the javelin. Finally, in round 6, he either breaks grapple or squeezes. Since Yoriko has more Hp, now (because the initial crossbow bolt missed), she would likely survive his squeeze and so you should honor Telin's tactics and break grapple, unless the one AoO hit. Which means, of course, that the match should probably last a few more rounds. EDIT: I think Telin is right, except that Yoriko's CR limits her to +300 gp.
TelinArtho 08-03-05, 04:41 PM	Well, I had the same opinion, but didn't voice it (about the crossbow bolt, you getting up from prone with a tumble and the later squeeze) and here's why: 1. I would've done 8 less damage originally. 2. I would've gotten an AoO on you getting up 3. When I broke the grapple, my tactics would've been to quickdraw my flail and trip you and subsequently attack again. I think its a close fight, but I think with the extra AoO plus the flail attack on the end, you'd probably still get it in the end. /d
Mind Rogue 08-03-05, 04:48 PM	Granted that your flail would probably deal even more damage than the crossbow bolt did, although there is still the possibility out there that you wouldn't have hit with it. Also, before you can strike back with the flail, I get the chance to grab you again. Or actually, I get two chances at it. However, it is nice to see a match for once that leaves both gladiators in a stable state, since you actually dealt subdual damage with the last grapple check. Good match: it was pretty close.
Pittbull 08-03-05, 07:04 PM	Sorry guys, so many errors......! I wanted it to up before deadline and rushed too much. If you want me to fix them, I'll do this tomorrow. If it's OK so, I'll leave as it is. Deep apologizes! :(
Mind Rogue 08-03-05, 07:07 PM	I'd kind of like to know what the actual result would have been. If that one AoO when I get back up hits, I concede. Otherwise, I'd kind of like full pay. But no hurry; I've decided not to use any of it in my tactics for next week, and I can't update anymore.
Pittbull 08-04-05, 06:04 AM	The rerun is made, I hope I erased all the errors. :embarrass