Post/Author/DateTime	Post
McJarvis 03-05-08, 11:37 AM	Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. News and Whatnot New Rulings - Courtroom Crocodiles were errata'd off the Druid animal companion list for 1st level companions. This can be found in a new print-DMG, and is an example of "stealth errata" The Madness domain's bonus to wisdom applies to all thing in spellcasting- not just spell save DCs and bonus spells. The Council Decisions/Revelations Huan apparantley has stepped up to take the newspaper job. We'll see how that unfolds in the weeks to come... The rules thread is currently being revamped. See the council for more details. Current Topics Spell Resistance discussions have been renewed- more specifically whether monsters/PC's always improve SR with increased hit dice. Update: These are still going on, and several elders have spoken in support of not advancing SR with hd unless it is specifically said to do so. Check out the Courtroom and Council to join in all the fun! Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindWandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
whitebaron 03-05-08, 03:06 PM	@mwb: you got a problem on the roster. Ralein is LVL 6 - you leveled him accidentally last week and rightfully this week.
whitebaron 03-05-08, 04:36 PM	another issue: you have Eamane's characters active, though he's passed without trace since december. his chars are active for december 5th... same with taureus' ackbar stormsword...
MindWandererB 03-05-08, 05:07 PM	Pairings done, I think. I don't usually make that many mistakes.... I also need a volunteer for The Eternal Dreamless Sleep (hogarth|templer10) vs. Unknown Monster [Cavern]. Credits: Callix F2 CrazyArtificer F2 A-1 Q-1 dulsi F1 Q-1 Durzulgor F1 Erithmu A1 F1 Hirumajoe F1 Huan Q2 McJarvis F4 Rauul F1 Sjiggie F1 Stormwind Q2 Q-1 TelinArtho A1 F2 A-3 templer10 F2 A-1 Turanson F1 whitebaron F3 A-1 lonewolf A-1 MindWandererB A2 A-1 Key: F=Fight, Q=Quest, C=Campaign, G=Guildmaster, A=Admin or Active Characters
templer10 03-05-08, 05:20 PM	MWB - any chance to have Elrick and or longshot NOT be a monster fight - elrick had 3 of his last 4 fights be monster fights and iam REALLY tired of them, and in this case one or both can be turned into a FFA/inter league. p.s - with the EDS also having a monster fight it means iam stuck with 3 monster fights in the same week - i would REALLY appreciate getting rid of one or 2.
McJarvis 03-05-08, 05:22 PM	why am I getting 4 credits? Is there a fight I'm missing...?
MindWandererB 03-05-08, 05:28 PM	why am I getting 4 credits? Is there a fight I'm missing...? Probably. # Kai Engel (Hirumajoe) vs. Gortek ChaoSlayer (Rauul) : McJarvis [City] # Dentik Earthmolder (TelinArtho) vs. Korwald Barandar (lonewolf) : McJarvis [Forest] # Wiener Wadlbeisser (lonewolf|whitebaron|mucki) vs. Unknown Monster : McJarvis [Plains] @templer: Sorry, but them's the breaks. The machine randomly determines FFAs, and I do interleagues only when there's a pitlord shortage that would be helped by smooshing fights together. I don't think any pitlord available has the sanity to spare to run Raskos the Jade Father (SauroGrenom) vs. Archdevil Asran (Zevox) vs. Longshot (templer10) this week.
TelinArtho 03-05-08, 05:37 PM	@t10 - Longshot is up against 1 medium giant.
templer10 03-05-08, 05:40 PM	@t10 - Longshot is up against 1 medium giant. did You note longshot's cohort knowledge skills when posting the info - he has a lot of them.
TelinArtho 03-05-08, 05:42 PM	I didn't - but that begs a question - why do we allow cohorts to help for knowledge checks when we don't allow allies to help with any other skill check? Anyway - not that you wouldn't have been able to figure this out - but it is a half-giant psychic warrior 13 To my pitlords - I'll try to be working on my tactics sometime tonight after my kids are asleep - but they may wait until tomorrow. The team fight will take priority since I know that will take some discussion.
McJarvis 03-05-08, 05:58 PM	nevermind
McJarvis 03-05-08, 05:59 PM	# Wiener Wadlbeisser (lonewolf|whitebaron|mucki) vs. Unknown Monster : McJarvis [Plains] @Wiener Wadlbeisser: you're facing a cubic dragon, but unfortunately for you he's not from flatland.
lonewolf 03-05-08, 06:20 PM	@Wiener Wadlbeisser: you're facing a cubic dragon, but unfortunately for you he's not from flatland. size? We should get that. just to confirm my fears of the halfdragon Black Pudding. :uh-huh: The True dragons are all smaller...
whitebaron 03-05-08, 06:21 PM	Monster Info for Undurion: 3 medium monstrous scorpions Monster Info for Howler: 1 Deinonychus
McJarvis 03-05-08, 06:24 PM	size? We should get that. just to confirm my fears of the halfdragon Black Pudding. :uh-huh: The True dragons are all smaller... true dragons are also not cube-shaped.
Sjiggie 03-05-08, 06:57 PM	@MWB: Monster Info for Flutterthought: 1 Small and 1 Medium Biped
whitebaron 03-05-08, 07:09 PM	@mwb: i found 2 further mistakes in the roster. gwerdan is ecl7 now. and lelenia should have [special bardic power!] tag, aswell as Ralein (well, special soulknife power in his case) ;)
Salrantol 03-05-08, 10:53 PM	It's been a long time since I've sent an honest-to-goodness two-part tactics, but... @Rauul: Tactics for Enoch the Prophet vs. Blurgta the Touched and cohort sent via PMs.
templer10 03-06-08, 02:07 AM	TELIN - monster info is 1 bipedal Medium Dragon (non winged) - shouldn't be hard to figure that out... MWB - there is still no pitlord for EDS vs monster? Hirumajoe - Monster roll for elrick?
Callix 03-06-08, 04:15 AM	@Durzulgor: Shaela's tactics are away. @whitebaron: Monster roll for Howler would be appreciated. TYVM.
mucki 03-06-08, 04:26 AM	I do not feel confident that I could handle an ECL8 encounter, but if someone else feels up for it, I can take one or two of the ECL3-5 fights to free you up.
whitebaron 03-06-08, 04:29 AM	Monster Info for Undurion: 3 medium monstrous scorpions Monster Info for Howler: 1 Deinonychus @callix... i already posted them here, but was to lazy to do it in the battles thread as well ...
whitebaron 03-06-08, 04:34 AM	@mucki: i've rolled up monster info for EDS now. if you want to, you can take one of my monster fights @ ecl3/4. (but there's no actual need for this) @mwb: mark the fight as taken by me. @hogarth/t10: Huge Undead with wings. go figure.
CrazyArtificer 03-06-08, 04:58 AM	note to all my players: I'm quite busy this week, I'll run all fights on Monday (hopefully Tuesday as well)
Rauul 03-06-08, 06:49 AM	McJarvis, I believe i sent Gortek's Tactics... let me know if you get them (Sight went down between sending and looking)
hogarth 03-06-08, 07:05 AM	@mucki: i've rolled up monster info for EDS now. if you want to, you can take one of my monster fights @ ecl3/4. (but there's no actual need for this) @mwb: mark the fight as taken by me. @hogarth/t10: Huge Undead with wings. go figure. Hmmm...I predict a whole bunch o' magic missiles will be necessary. At least we won't need to plan for a whole bunch of contingencies.
whitebaron 03-06-08, 07:29 AM	Hmmm...I predict a whole bunch o' magic missiles will be necessary. At least we won't need to plan for a whole bunch of contingencies. you mean, like the whole wand of magic missiles? :) good for you it can neither fly nor go totally unsqueezed through the cavern. bad for you its full attack is pretty deadly, too.
Rauul 03-06-08, 07:34 AM	@CrazyArtificer Tactics for Shadow sent... I really hate the sewers for Shadow.. i mean i REALLY hate the sewers! Btw.. PM me with any questions
McJarvis 03-06-08, 08:10 AM	McJarvis, I believe i sent Gortek's Tactics... let me know if you get them (Sight went down between sending and looking) received
lonewolf 03-06-08, 08:53 AM	Tactics for Korwald & Samuel are away.
McJarvis 03-06-08, 09:51 AM	Monster rerolled. And rereolled again. Now you're facing 4 medium outsiders with many legs. All rerolls have been made public in the roller.
lonewolf 03-06-08, 10:00 AM	Monster rerolled. And rereolled again. Now you're facing 4 medium outsiders with many legs. All rerolls have been made public in the roller. Im fine with those Rasts, but Im curious: why did you reroll the Yrthak? EDIT: got it. another blind one...
TelinArtho 03-06-08, 10:21 AM	All of my tactics have been submitted (well - Ialgo's have been sent to CrazyArtificer for review).
McJarvis 03-06-08, 10:28 AM	Im fine with those Rasts, but Im curious: why did you reroll the Yrthak? EDIT: got it. another blind one... Seems to me it's a pretty poorly designed monster in the first place. Average flight 60 ft, he likes to attack from above, but only has 120 ft blindsight...which means in a typical fight his chances of "losing" his prey is really good.
whitebaron 03-06-08, 12:11 PM	@callix: tactics for howler received @dulsi: tactics for lelenia sent @crazy: tactics for verren sent -> those might be the longest i ever sent, but i feel they are not that hard to play. :)
Hirumajoe 03-06-08, 01:09 PM	@Templer10: Monster Info for Elrick: One Large Giant (two legs) and one Huge Animal (four legs)
templer10 03-06-08, 01:13 PM	@Templer10: Monster Info for Elrick: One Large Giant (two legs) and one Huge Animal (four legs) not that i mind really - But Doesnt Huge in the temple means a reroll? P.s - MEn am i glad for that meld into Stone... p.s.s - i assume you can meld with the Floor?
Hirumajoe 03-06-08, 01:17 PM	Given its a pair of creatures, and one is only large sized, I'm willing to let it stand.
MindWandererB 03-06-08, 04:18 PM	@templer10, Rauul, and Sjiggie: Tactics are sent. Why can't I have any simple fights anymore?
Rauul 03-06-08, 06:29 PM	@templer10, Rauul, and Sjiggie: Tactics are sent. Why can't I have any simple fights anymore? Same reason you Put Shadow in the Sewers...
Salrantol 03-06-08, 08:18 PM	Same reason you Put Shadow in the Sewers...MindWandererB hates himself too????
Rauul 03-06-08, 08:45 PM	MindWandererB hates himself too???? na but the Dice hate us Both!
SauroGrenom 03-06-08, 09:01 PM	Telin, Raskos's tactics vs Asran are submitted... that guy has beat me twice in a row. Hopefully this is the time when that doesn't happen anymore.
Salrantol 03-06-08, 09:27 PM	na but the Dice hate us Both!Well, first, I was being sarcastic.... You're anthropomorphizing the dice. They are not capable of attitudes such as hate. They are inanimate objects. Blame the pairingsmaker program's programmer--there's clearly a "ghost in the machine" making it pair you two poorly.
Rauul 03-06-08, 10:26 PM	Well, first, I was being sarcastic.... You're anthropomorphizing the dice. They are not capable of attitudes such as hate. They are inanimate objects. Blame the pairingsmaker program's programmer--there's clearly a "ghost in the machine" making it pair you two poorly. Whats it cost to hire an Exorcist to clear out this ghost...
SauroGrenom 03-06-08, 10:36 PM	Rith, Kracknol vs Istima tactics are submitted...
mucki 03-07-08, 06:38 AM	@turanson: tactics for lucifer sent.
templer10 03-07-08, 07:54 AM	@Templer10: Monster Info for Elrick: One Large Giant (two legs) and one Huge Animal (four legs) Problem With this Roll - the only option it Can be is thr 8th level ranger Troll & triceratops. an 8th level Troll ranger is CR 13 alone (ranger being an associated class - and teh SRD list a troll ranger 6 as CR 11) - so it either needs to be reduced to be Troll ranger 6 for this fight or a reroll.
templer10 03-07-08, 08:27 AM	Telin - Longshot vs psyching warrior is out - i kept it Simple - should be over in no time.
Sjiggie 03-07-08, 10:06 AM	@CrazyArticifer Tactics for Valanthe snet via PM on the level 7!
Turanson 03-07-08, 11:42 AM	Lucifer vs. S'lertak is up any comment please post them.
mucki 03-07-08, 12:18 PM	Thanks for the run! It doesn't change any of the results, but Lucifer has Imp. Grapple, so there should be no AoO's against him. And he was also enlarged, so he should get an additional +4 to grapple checks (I'll add conditional modifiers for that to my sheet, since its likely i will use it more often).
mucki 03-07-08, 12:53 PM	@McJ: tactics for WW are sent.
Hirumajoe 03-07-08, 01:05 PM	Problem With this Roll - the only option it Can be is thr 8th level ranger Troll & triceratops. an 8th level Troll ranger is CR 13 alone (ranger being an associated class - and teh SRD list a troll ranger 6 as CR 11) - so it either needs to be reduced to be Troll ranger 6 for this fight or a reroll. It will be reduced to a Troll ranger 6 for this fight. I'll see if I can't get MWB to fix that listing as well.
Rauul 03-07-08, 01:29 PM	It will be reduced to a Troll ranger 6 for this fight. I'll see if I can't get MWB to fix that listing as well. Don't forget the 4th level ranger ability of a Animal Companion :)
Turanson 03-07-08, 01:46 PM	Thanks for the run! It doesn't change any of the results, but Lucifer has Imp. Grapple, so there should be no AoO's against him. And he was also enlarged, so he should get an additional +4 to grapple checks (I'll add conditional modifiers for that to my sheet, since its likely i will use it more often). Thanks for the comment i'll try not to make those mistaks again
Durzulgor 03-07-08, 02:23 PM	@WB: tactics for Undurion sent. To bad he has so many spells and power points left, he'll most likely win this one, evn though they're 3! @Crazy: Tactics for Durz are away! Maybe I'll be doing WB a favor here...
CrazyArtificer 03-07-08, 02:26 PM	at my players: got all of your tactics :)
MindWandererB 03-07-08, 02:32 PM	It will be reduced to a Troll ranger 6 for this fight. I'll see if I can't get MWB to fix that listing as well. I'm more in favor of finalizing our discussion about a total revamp of the monster lists to avoid all these sorts of problems for the foreseeable future....
whitebaron 03-07-08, 02:55 PM	nobody hits is up. (also known as howler vs. the dinosaur)
The Dread Dormammu 03-07-08, 02:57 PM	@dulsi - Snaga's tactics are up.
Rauul 03-07-08, 03:19 PM	@Crazy: Tactics for Durz are away! Maybe I'll be doing WB a favor here... How you doing WB a Favor... When your Fighting Shadow in the Sewers... Unless i am missing Something :)... Sure you Drew up the right Tactics?
whitebaron 03-07-08, 03:22 PM	How you doing WB a Favor... When your Fighting Shadow in the Sewers... Unless i am missing Something :)... Sure you Drew up the right Tactics? we talked about the fight yesterday in his car. i know what he's referring to, well, we'll see after the fight. :)
whitebaron 03-07-08, 04:32 PM	Undurion :rolleyes: - looks like old age is no good idea after all.
templer10 03-07-08, 04:35 PM	Hiru - Tactics for Elrick + Horde are out, part 2 is summoned creatures Stats when augmanted/buffed etc.
hogarth 03-07-08, 04:58 PM	Undurion :rolleyes: - looks like old age is no good idea after all. I think you have the wrong link (unless you're suggesting that the Eternal Dreamless Sleep has to fight Undurion's huge corpse this week). :)
whitebaron 03-07-08, 05:13 PM	I think you have the wrong link (unless you're suggesting that the Eternal Dreamless Sleep has to fight Undurion's huge corpse this week). :) yeah, you're right. proper link: Undurion ...
Rauul 03-07-08, 05:17 PM	we talked about the fight yesterday in his car. i know what he's referring to, well, we'll see after the fight. :) Well shadow is a Pushover (he is just a bard)... Should be an pretty straight forward Fight.. Just be thankful Psions don't get a Hide skill without CC... or Shadow could be nastier...
Durzulgor 03-07-08, 06:41 PM	ooops, now I know what I wanted to look up for the fight: the sleep spell! ^^ Well, should've thought of that!
TelinArtho 03-07-08, 08:51 PM	@Turanson - I have no issue with the fight (well - other than the wrong grapple rolls - but that would just end things earlier...). Figures that grapplers would be S'lertak's toughest opponent at ECL3 and he's gotten 2 of them so far...
Zevox 03-08-08, 02:24 AM	@ Erithmu/Telin - Tactics for Istima Telarc and Archdevil Asran vs Sauro's characters have been PMed. One of those I can all but guarantee I'll win. The other, not so much, but theres at least some hope of victory there. Zevox
TelinArtho 03-08-08, 07:25 PM	@Sauro - noticed a big mistake in your tactics and sent a PM about it. Not sure if it will make a difference, but I'll try to give you some time to respond about it - just in case.
TelinArtho 03-08-08, 10:18 PM	I've posted the stats and tactics of the half-giant for Longshot. Can I have someone confirm I didn't screw up the character sheet? I've never had to make a high level psionic character - so there's plenty of areas I could have screwed up on.
Erithmu 03-08-08, 11:01 PM	I've posted the stats and tactics of the half-giant for Longshot. Can I have someone confirm I didn't screw up the character sheet? I've never had to make a high level psionic character - so there's plenty of areas I could have screwed up on. Looks clean to me at first glance, at least well enough to run a fight on.
templer10 03-09-08, 03:13 AM	I've posted the stats and tactics of the half-giant for Longshot. Can I have someone confirm I didn't screw up the character sheet? I've never had to make a high level psionic character - so there's plenty of areas I could have screwed up on. Looks Fine - and MEN iam happy i remmbered that psi warrior's have D.door and mentioned for the cohort to ready on apporace by d.door also. p.s - note the dispelling buffer (which unlike the wierd writing in the table doesnt affect just 1 dispell attempt).
Callix 03-09-08, 05:56 AM	nobody hits is up. (also known as howler vs. the dinosaur) Thanks for the run, WB. Both the dino and I had a d20 average of around 9. He even got a 1 on the Fort save... just not for the poison. Oh, well. I wasn't expecting to get as far as I did. One note: Worm was taking readied attacks, not AoO's. Just a terminology issue; no change in number or bonuses here.
Callix 03-09-08, 07:35 PM	@Telin, CrazyArtificer: I'm still waiting on your tactics. Since this is a FFA, I'm going to have to call a forfeit soon, as I don't know how long it'll take to run. Please get those tactics in soon.
TelinArtho 03-09-08, 07:49 PM	Hmm - I figured CA would have sent along the tactics on Thursday when we finalized them. I'll forward what I have presently. EDIT: Sent.
CrazyArtificer 03-09-08, 08:46 PM	@Telin, CrazyArtificer: I'm still waiting on your tactics. Since this is a FFA, I'm going to have to call a forfeit soon, as I don't know how long it'll take to run. Please get those tactics in soon. Did you get mine? I sent Uranedal's one on Friday for sure. And TA, I thought you were going to send Ialgo's ones :)
SauroGrenom 03-09-08, 09:06 PM	I've posted the stats and tactics of the half-giant for Longshot. Can I have someone confirm I didn't screw up the character sheet? I've never had to make a high level psionic character - so there's plenty of areas I could have screwed up on.For monsters, I thought you had to use the elite ability array... If this were a character you're interested in running, I'd make the following suggestions... Feats like quicken and psionic meditation don't work well for psiwarriors. A psiwarrior doesn't have time to waste in combat to regain psionic focus for a move action or anything else. Besides it grants an AoO with or w/o the feat. Also the number of pp is so low that a quickened power is usually a waste... Most of the great powers that could use quickened are immediate manifestations anyway, or you can augment then to immediate actions (like expansion). Since you have more pp to spend than a usual player, quickened vigor could work. Most psiwarriors take psionic body, since they have lots of psionic feats the bonus HP can get rather high. Other tweaks are things like perhaps having a psicrystal, and crystal containment, but you don't have much in the way of using your psionic focus for a power attack.. so that's a waste. Generally, good choices on powers, good mobility, flight backup, and the classic weaknesses of this type of character... ie low saves. I think it's a good build for a monster fight. Edit: I recall that a quickened power counts as your immediate action for that turn, so be warned that that fact may modify the value of quickened manifesting.
TelinArtho 03-09-08, 09:43 PM	Well - I certainly have no interest in playing the character... psionics suck :) That said - on the elite array - it wouldn't change much. Wis would be a 15 base, Cha would be a 10 base, which in order to keep it as close to the original build the extra point from 12th level would be applied to Cha - meaning the only change in the end is a Cha of 11 instead of 12.
Callix 03-10-08, 02:23 AM	Did you get mine? I sent Uranedal's one on Friday for sure. And TA, I thought you were going to send Ialgo's ones :) Sorry, major brainfade. I had yours, CA, and Telin has since sent me his. Hirumajoe and Turanson, on the other hand, I have heard nothing from So, Turanson and Hirumajoe, soon would be appreciated.Short tactics are fine, I'll do what I can with them, but no tactics is a forfeit.
whitebaron 03-10-08, 07:54 AM	@callix: noted the difference in wording, but you're right, would not really change a bit. @crazy: seen the roller for verrens fight. - got one comment: there are no AoOs against people with concealment or cover.
CrazyArtificer 03-10-08, 08:03 AM	@crazy: seen the roller for verrens fight. - got one comment: there are no AoOs against people with concealment or cover. Hmm.. main problem is that you are running with Valanthe by your side. I made you roll a ms check and if he pinpoints you I always thought he would get an AoO on you. If I'm wrong I'll stop with those, but I wonder how long should both of you run around the map:D EDIT: found it, was in the concealment line. No AoOs.
whitebaron 03-10-08, 09:23 AM	well, if you're going nuts with all those move silently etc. rolls - have verren use a scroll of expeditious retreat. i think this should be in line with his tactics. ;) with int 22, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out that he's hearing me and i'd need more speed to get away even if he hears me. since i have 2 invis and 2 ER, this should be enough...
CrazyArtificer 03-10-08, 09:31 AM	yes wb, it's the logical consequence, however you fail to mention it in your tactics. And I'm not the pitlord who adds things of his own in a fight (ask Durzulgor.. he added a line to Durzulgor I default tactics just after one fight with me :P ), so I guess you'll just keep playing the road runner game. Even then, it seems pretty dumb to run around the whole map in a sort of resistance game, wasting Invisibility that way. This is one of the situations a ghost sound comes handy :). On the topic of MS rolls that's not much to worry about those.. without the need of pinpointing for AoOs Valanthe auto-succeeds if you run and you are both close. I think I'll have you single move out twice, then double move out twice and finally run away, so that listen checks are not an issue anymore. While this is not optimal, you still caused much of Valanthe buffs to expire.
Turanson 03-10-08, 09:33 AM	Sorry, major brainfade. I had yours, CA, and Telin has since sent me his. Hirumajoe and Turanson, on the other hand, I have heard nothing from So, Turanson and Hirumajoe, soon would be appreciated.Short tactics are fine, I'll do what I can with them, but no tactics is a forfeit. Just saw this I have sent my tatic to Hirumajoe for him to merge with his but if you have nothing from us I'll just write something up for his charater and that will have to due.
Turanson 03-10-08, 09:47 AM	Tatics sent but if you get anything from Joe befor the fight please go with that
whitebaron 03-10-08, 10:58 AM	yes wb, it's the logical consequence, however you fail to mention it in your tactics. And I'm not the pitlord who adds things of his own in a fight (ask Durzulgor.. he added a line to Durzulgor I default tactics just after one fight with me :P ), so I guess you'll just keep playing the road runner game. You may use any expendable available. while i did not give it explicitly to use ER, i believe it would come handy. but it's up to you. :) so far, i'm pretty glad how to fight went down. (but that acid arrow - we'll talk about that later, SPELL!)
CrazyArtificer 03-10-08, 11:14 AM	while i did not give it explicitly to use ER, i believe it would come handy. but it's up to you. :) so far, i'm pretty glad how to fight went down. (but that acid arrow - we'll talk about that later, SPELL!) Hmm.. yep, but it's too late.. I'm already in round 61 :P
CrazyArtificer 03-10-08, 12:13 PM	Firestarter got Frozen (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15304281&postcount=1802) is up.
whitebaron 03-10-08, 12:56 PM	Firestarter got Frozen (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15304281&postcount=1802) is up. thnx. nice run, two things though: 1) valanthe has a 2-handed greatsword. he cannot threaten while holding a wand. so no need for verren to actually do anything defensively. 2) verren has point blank shot. so all crystal shards should get +1 to hit, +1 damage. that's all i can see right now.
Sjiggie 03-10-08, 01:19 PM	Thanks for the run Crazy 2 Things I seems like you forgot to deduct the 25% ally penalty for Valanthe's Cohort and please list in the results the pp used by Medivh (9pp) and that Inertial Armor on Medivh is running for 4 hours.
CrazyArtificer 03-10-08, 01:26 PM	thnx. nice run, two things though: 1) valanthe has a 2-handed greatsword. he cannot threaten while holding a wand. so no need for verren to actually do anything defensively. 2) verren has point blank shot. so all crystal shards should get +1 to hit, +1 damage. that's all i can see right now. There was a big issue in the fight, so these observations are now useless. See edited fight (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15304281&postcount=1802) Medivh saved the day, this time. @Sjiggie: Yes, I actually forgot cohort penalty, I'll fix that asap (and those 2 things related, as well)
whitebaron 03-10-08, 01:31 PM	There was a big issue in the fight, so these observations are now useless. See edited fight (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15304281&postcount=1802) Medivh saved the day, this time. @Sjiggie: Yes, I actually forgot cohort penalty, I'll fix that asap (and those 2 things related, as well) well, now i've got another issue with the fight. since valanthe is already dead, and medivh won't heal him, verren should win, since valanthe hit the "dying-zone' earlier. Defeat: For all battle types, a character is considered defeated when it reaches a state in which the character can in no possible way harm its opponent, that neither the character, nor allies, nor the passage of time, nor the cessation of concentration of the opponent, is capable of reversing. When defeated, any surviving allies of the defeated character are instantly removed from the battle.
Sjiggie 03-10-08, 01:35 PM	well, now i've got another issue with the fight. since valanthe is already dead, and medivh won't heal him, verren should win, since valanthe hit the "dying-zone' earlier. Actually Valanthe would survive the Crystal Shard because he activated his CoPS giving him an extra 6hp because of increased Con. Sjiggie
whitebaron 03-10-08, 01:41 PM	Actually Valanthe would survive the Crystal Shard because he activated his CoPS giving him an extra 6hp because of increased Con. Sjiggie well, the hitpoints seem to be off since the edit anyway...
CrazyArtificer 03-10-08, 01:43 PM	Yes sorry.. I finished editing the fight while discussing with my mother about a couple things. :) Fixing that, as well. EDIT: done. Had Valanthe delay, that's faster than rolling another attack.
whitebaron 03-10-08, 02:05 PM	Yes sorry.. I finished editing the fight while discussing with my mother about a couple things. :) Fixing that, as well. EDIT: done. Had Valanthe delay, that's faster than rolling another attack. anyone wondering why everyone wants a cohort? leadership is simply the most broken feat around for coco. two final comments about valanthe's ac: 1) his touch ac when enlarged is: 10+0dex-1size+3cha = 12 (would not have hit anyway) 2) i'm pretty much disappointed elude touch works every time - even if you're unconscious, flat footed or something - your charisma will help you... one final comment about editing: please leave the rolls as they are, and please leave the original fight stand. it's hard to follow the edit like that. you just wonder about "why is my crystal shard at -1 now?" up until you realize that it was a different roll alltogether. just use the roll and mark it in the fight - makes reading it much easier.
CrazyArtificer 03-10-08, 02:31 PM	ok whitebaron, I'm taking note for future fights. And I totally agree on elude touch, as well. Durzulgor hatches The Shadow (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15305090&postcount=1804) is up EDIT: rewards up as well.
TelinArtho 03-10-08, 04:19 PM	@t10 - couple of issues with your half-giant: 1. A half-giant cannot wield a huge greatsword, not even with a penalty. He could use a large greatsword though (with no penalty). 2. Dmg bonus for a two-handed weapon with a +7 str modifier is +10, but the magic sword should add another +1. So +15/+10 to hit and 3d6+11 dmg on those greatsword attacks.
whitebaron 03-10-08, 04:20 PM	ok whitebaron, I'm taking note for future fights. And I totally agree on elude touch, as well. Durzulgor hatches The Shadow (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15305090&postcount=1804) is up EDIT: rewards up as well. we won't know for sure what rauul likes better until he posts himself, but this is an extract from durzulgors tactics: In case I find him with some (illusory) doubles: Kill his cohort first. Use full power attack (-3 att +6 dam) and psionic weapon on the first hit. so durz should probably kill demarcos first, before going over to shadow.
whitebaron 03-10-08, 04:34 PM	Nodens vs. Varuxor I really thought you had a decent chance there. then the dice turned on you (18,19,20 on the last three bowshots)
templer10 03-10-08, 04:45 PM	@t10 - couple of issues with your half-giant: 1. A half-giant cannot wield a huge greatsword, not even with a penalty. He could use a large greatsword though (with no penalty). 2. Dmg bonus for a two-handed weapon with a +7 str modifier is +10, but the magic sword should add another +1. So +15/+10 to hit and 3d6+11 dmg on those greatsword attacks. OKay - and ill go by your interpretation on the Spir weapon unless 2 other elders want to overrule u.
CrazyArtificer 03-10-08, 04:46 PM	Nodens vs. Varuxor I really thought you had a decent chance there. then the dice turned on you (18,19,20 on the last three bowshots) Lol, routine for Varuxor. Calidor survived his Energy Missile for 2 hp, Orgauth with 1, and now got Critted. I wonder if it exists a sanctuary for unlucky characters in Gladius. Even in this fight average damage would have left Nodens with 1 hp, so a bit more luck and we would have had a dying ranger. Instead I managed to deal 8 hp under average :D we won't know for sure what rauul likes better until he posts himself, but this is an extract from durzulgors tactics: so durz should probably kill demarcos first, before going over to shadow. Missed that line.. should read tactics twice :) Fixing the fight tomorrow.
Turanson 03-10-08, 04:48 PM	Thanks for the run whitebaron I'll rather be lukky than good :D
templer10 03-10-08, 04:49 PM	Telin - maybe iam not 2 clear on the rules - why Cant my half giant use a huge greatsword and yours vs longshot can use a huge dwarven waraxe? is it becuase yours is a 1 handed weapon?
TelinArtho 03-10-08, 04:52 PM	Telin - maybe iam not 2 clear on the rules - why Cant my half giant use a huger greatsword and yours vs longshot can use a huge dwarven waraxe? is it becuase yours is a 1 handed weapon? Right. Large Dwarven Waraxe for a half-giant is a 1-handed weapon (since he has EWP: DW). Huge makes it a 2-handed weapon. Large Greatsword for a half-giant is a 2-handed weapon. Huge makes it unwieldable. They have a pretty good table of explanation of this in the FAQ if you want a reference for it.
templer10 03-10-08, 05:13 PM	Kraegin Vs half dragon Half giant Cleric 8 is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15306061&postcount=1805) - err - sorry about tornado? (127 dmg in a full attack can ruin anyone's day).
TelinArtho 03-10-08, 05:42 PM	Couple of things t10: 1. Spiritual weapon gets extra attacks based on BAB - not total attack bonus. So - even with Divine power, the monster has a BAB of +8 - and therefore it should only be 2 attacks. Looks like this wouldn't make a difference on the spiritual weapon attacks 2. Likewise though, the monster does not get 3 attacks per round. So on that full attack on Toronado, the last attack would not even happen. 3. Also - elementals are immune to crits. 4. Large elementals have DR5/--. 5. Air elementals have air mastery. Since the half-giant is flying that means -1 to hit and -1 to damage. All in all - that reduces the damage from 127 down to 57 - not enough to take down Toronado. On rewards - Toronado is a CR5 ally and is therefore a 13.888% penalty for Kraegin. Also, note in the used items section the expended xp and gp (250xp/568gp)
Rauul 03-10-08, 05:48 PM	ok whitebaron, I'm taking note for future fights. And I totally agree on elude touch, as well. Durzulgor hatches The Shadow (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15305090&postcount=1804) is up EDIT: rewards up as well. Only thing i am going to argue about is the fact that he heard spell casting and knew where Shadow was with an 8 listen in the Sewers... When diaginally opposite starting squares... "The sewer pipes carry noise. In effect, this means that two squares with pipe exits are considered to be adjacent for listen check purposes. This only works directly; you cannot for example use two pipes to negate distance penalties." and the lack of maps... But other than that i will except the defeat..
templer10 03-10-08, 05:48 PM	Couple of things t10: 1. Spiritual weapon gets extra attacks based on BAB - not total attack bonus. So - even with Divine power, the monster has a BAB of +8 - and therefore it should only be 2 attacks. Looks like this wouldn't make a difference on the spiritual weapon attacks 2. Likewise though, the monster does not get 3 attacks per round. So on that full attack on Toronado, the last attack would not even happen. 3. Also - elementals are immune to crits. 4. Large elementals have DR5/--. 5. Air elementals have air mastery. Since the half-giant is flying that means -1 to hit and -1 to damage. All in all - that reduces the damage from 127 down to 57 - not enough to take down Toronado. On rewards - Toronado is a CR5 ally and is therefore a 13.888% penalty for Kraegin. Also, note in the used items section the expended xp and gp (250xp/568gp) MEh - i should run fights when that tired... Dont know where my head was at when doing the attacks - ill check over your math tommarow.
CrazyArtificer 03-10-08, 07:09 PM	Only thing i am going to argue about is the fact that he heard spell casting and knew where Shadow was with an 8 listen in the Sewers... When diaginally opposite starting squares... "The sewer pipes carry noise. In effect, this means that two squares with pipe exits are considered to be adjacent for listen check purposes. This only works directly; you cannot for example use two pipes to negate distance penalties." and the lack of maps... But other than that i will except the defeat.. Yes, I read that. The main thing is there's the pipe carring the noise to the center. In round 2 (or 3?) he manages to listen the noise coming from the center so he moves towards that. In the following round, you speak (wands are command-word items) and as when you speak it's a DC 0 check, he must do a 1d20+8-2 distance check to hear you, which is an auto-success.
Rauul 03-10-08, 07:27 PM	Yes, I read that. The main thing is there's the pipe carring the noise to the center. In round 2 (or 3?) he manages to listen the noise coming from the center so he moves towards that. In the following round, you speak (wands are command-word items) and as when you speak it's a DC 0 check, he must do a 1d20+8-2 distance check to hear you, which is an auto-success. according to the fight you had him hearing shadow cast a scroll in rd 1, and again in rd 2..
CrazyArtificer 03-10-08, 07:55 PM	Yes, that's poor wording ;) Round 2 Durzulgor heard The Shadow casting and quickly moves towards the middle, stowing the wand. (16,19) The Shadow draws wand of exp retreat, casts it and store it, while Demarco manifests Force Screen Durzulgor. 52/52 hp. AC 16. 10 squares. Invisibility [31] The Shadow. 35/35 hp. AC 18. 6+6 squares. Mirror Image [31], Expeditious Retreat [12] Demarco. 34/34 hp. AC 10+4+4. 10/11 pp. 6 squares. Mage Armor [long], Force Screen [42] Round 3 Durzulgor heard The Shadow casting and quickly moves towards the middle, stowing the wand. (16,19) The Shadow draws wand of exp retreat, casts it and store it, while Demarco manifests Force Screen See the 2 rounds? They are exactly the same. A copy and paste too much there. Also, he hears you casting and then moves towards the middle of the map, not towards the starting box. It's only after activating the wand he recognize where you are. Said this, I'll have to rerun the fight tomorrow anyway, but I hope it's clear now.
whitebaron 03-10-08, 08:15 PM	EDS presents: the slaughterhouse of the day rewards coming tomorrow.
TelinArtho 03-10-08, 09:59 PM	Raskos the Jade Father vs Archdevil Asran is up. It seems to me that Sauro's error on polymorph really cost him here - and it was still pretty close in a way.
McJarvis 03-10-08, 11:28 PM	WW slaughter 4 rasts is up
Hirumajoe 03-11-08, 12:19 AM	Can someone confirm that if an Earth Elemental is attacking from the ground with Total concealment, that the target also has total concealment? Secondly, does it need to pinpoint with a listen check in order to guess properly, since it doesn't actually have tremor sense? The reason I ask is Elrick's tactics: - note the Earth elemental has no problems with the Ground and Can (And will) attack while having Total Cover –
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 01:36 AM	Hirumajoe - you are correct
templer10 03-11-08, 02:11 AM	Can someone confirm that if an Earth Elemental is attacking from the ground with Total concealment, that the target also has total concealment? Secondly, does it need to pinpoint with a listen check in order to guess properly, since it doesn't actually have tremor sense? The reason I ask is Elrick's tactics: - note the Earth elemental has no problems with the Ground and Can (And will) attack while having Total Cover – i Didn't Actually knew that - i thought it was more of he takes a hand out of the ground or something - there isnt much point of not being out if he cant attack (or almost cant) you might as well have just cover then - then there should be no problem.
whitebaron 03-11-08, 03:32 AM	basically, this is the same as with incorporeality. attacking completely from inside: attacker has cover(+4) while attacking, total cover while not. defender has total concealment while attacked, total cover while not. both cannot attack on AoOs. once the elemental is larger or larger, there is the additional option of just having cover by letting the lower part of your cube being in the ground. normal cover rules apply. @mcj: thnx for the monster-run. wanted to let you know, though, that synesthete lasts 10min/level, not 1 minute. ;)
Hirumajoe 03-11-08, 04:52 AM	Elrick vs the Troll and Triceratops is up here. Edit: I'm leaving its as is, not going to do the partial cover only thing, since the Troll and Triceratops would have reacted very differently... (Like attacked the Elemental first...) Probably wouldn't change the outcome in any case. Though that troll was rather impressive I thought for not being a primary caster...
Hirumajoe 03-11-08, 04:55 AM	@McJarivs: Its Kai Engel vs ChaosSlayer, not Altair. :)
templer10 03-11-08, 06:07 AM	Elrick vs the Troll and Triceratops is up here. Edit: I'm leaving its as is, not going to do the partial cover only thing, since the Troll and Triceratops would have reacted very differently... (Like attacked the Elemental first...) Probably wouldn't change the outcome in any case. Though that troll was rather impressive I thought for not being a primary caster... Thanks for the run - there were mistakes but since they are in favor of the monsters and i won anyway i dont particulery care - Do note the bakskin and FOM for 1+ hours please. on another hand - finally got out of the Doghouse with Elrick- he has been taking a beating (from monsters But still) lately.
Durzulgor 03-11-08, 07:04 AM	so durz should probably kill demarcos first, before going over to shadow. Well, well, it's in my tactics! ;-) Luckily those dice mean that demarcos gets hit badly! ;-) My first attack hit 21, so with the full PA contingency on DeMarcos that means it's still 18 and hits for 42 damage! Maybe Rauul would like it better not to see the fight edited! ;-)
Durzulgor 03-11-08, 08:22 AM	Shaela's luck is over the rooftops, aka Syril vs Shaela (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15311977&postcount=1812) is up! Rewards are still to be done, but expect them to be on soon. Rewards are up now. Tell me if something feels/is wrong.
McJarvis 03-11-08, 09:18 AM	@McJarivs: Its Kai Engel vs ChaosSlayer, not Altair. :) Heh. that would have made my job difficult, wouldn't it?
Erithmu 03-11-08, 09:42 AM	Kracknol vs Istima Not the race to deal over 100 hp of damage ... just 8.
Sjiggie 03-11-08, 09:45 AM	Flutterthought Bag of tricks animal slaughters a poor human bard
McJarvis 03-11-08, 10:34 AM	kai vs gortek is up linky (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15310192&postcount=1810)
CrazyArtificer 03-11-08, 11:13 AM	Durzulgor vs The Shadow (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15313074&postcount=1815) is edited A bit closer, but still a win for Durz.
SauroGrenom 03-11-08, 11:25 AM	Kracknol vs Istima Not the race to deal over 100 hp of damage ... just 8. Damn... no reason to even look at that fight. Fracking egowhip...
Durzulgor 03-11-08, 12:01 PM	Durzulgor vs The Shadow (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15313074&postcount=1815) is edited A bit closer, but still a win for Durz. In case I find him with some (illusory) doubles: Kill his cohort first. Charge if possible, move & attack otherwise. Use full power attack (-3 att +6 dam) and psionic weapon on the first hit. Then focus on him. As soon as I've found the real one: sunder his weapons (and any wands/scrolls/potions he might draw), then kill him. well, I've won anyway, but, well the reason of that line was to make shure he won't come back if I'm going to heal back up! ^^
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 12:02 PM	Longshot (templer10) vs Donata, Half-Giant Psychic Warrior 13 (Unknown Monster) is up. Things turned out a lot different than I expected...
whitebaron 03-11-08, 12:07 PM	well, I've won anyway, but, well the reason of that line was to make shure he won't come back if I'm going to heal back up! ^^ need ranks in heal to accomplish that, though. only someone at least a bit skilled can declare if he's dead or rather dying.
Durzulgor 03-11-08, 12:18 PM	Well, well, now I know where I'll have to put at least 1 rank next level! Funny part of that match is: His crappy alchemists fire nearly saved his sorry little a.. and cost me quite some charges from my wands! :rolleyes: I should add some more contingencies like: "Don't run away if my enemy can't do anything anyway!" *gg* well, that's the way you learn stuff! ;-) Thanks Crazy for the run!
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 12:47 PM	@t10 - about the summary for the fight (when you get to editing the fight), please note the following in addition to what you already have: Ongoing effects: Contingent Summons (SMIII on Free action trigger) Spells used: Planar Ally prebuff (6SLs), SMIII prebuff (3SLs) x/day abilities used: 1 daily charge from the Rod of Lesser Extend Spell
CrazyArtificer 03-11-08, 01:18 PM	Well, well, now I know where I'll have to put at least 1 rank next level! Funny part of that match is: His crappy alchemists fire nearly saved his sorry little a.. and cost me quite some charges from my wands! :rolleyes: I should add some more contingencies like: "Don't run away if my enemy can't do anything anyway!" *gg* well, that's the way you learn stuff! ;-) Thanks Crazy for the run! Costed some charges yes, saving him? No.. it was outright impossible to kill you with that fire. Even if both hit and damaged you for the maximum you would have got 18 damage and attemped to estinguish fire before getting another 6 :) You've been lucky that he didn't mention to heal himself to full health, otherwise he'd have been dropped to -3 and happy Demarcos would have hit you with a Large Greataxe :D Then you would have run away to heal, and he would have made The Shadow drink a potion and.. endless fight :)
SauroGrenom 03-11-08, 01:22 PM	Raskos the Jade Father vs Archdevil Asran is up. It seems to me that Sauro's error on polymorph really cost him here - and it was still pretty close in a way.Thanks for the run. I didn't count on Senorda having such a tremendous AC. If I'd known that it would have really changed the plan of the battle. Anyway there are a few problem. In round 8 Asran falls asleep, and since he's a "natural" flier with wings that means he falls to the ground 25 feet below. This should make it impossible for him to stand from prone, fly 20' up, take a move action to hover, and use a standard action to attack Raskos on his turn that same round. After that it should be reasonably difficult for Asran to grapple Raskos in the next round or two. Raskos can fly 60' where Asran can only fly 40'. Also there are plenty of trees to use to block charge lanes. I expect him to eventually get a grapple, but with smart movement it should take a couple rounds. It should be hard for him to get more than an AoO against Raskos in any given round, and Raskos can avoid that for one extra round by using a 5' step. It would be most important if Raskos can get off his second Mindthrust w/o a concentration check. I was kind of disappointed that in round 11 Raskos casts dimension door, but doesn't move far enough away. He ends up close enough that Asran can base him in one round, and he's not flying high enough to avoid the black tentacles? That end point for the dimension door was terribly sub par. Lastly when grappled Raskos's AC should be 25, so none of those attacks by Asran is high enough to hit in the last round. (10 base +7 armor +4 Shield +4 defensive precog) I don't really expect these things to change the outcome, but there's a decent chance if the mindthrust hits. Thanks, SauroScratch that, nevermind... he has protection from evil going, and that protects him from any kind of ongoing mind control. Deep slumber counts, so Asran is immune to that. Zevox will probably want you to adjust the battle taking that into consideration, it will likely save his cohort some spells (like black tentacles).
Durzulgor 03-11-08, 01:29 PM	Well, well, it nearly saved him by making me run away (<20hp condition), but as you stated: Luckily he didn't write to heal back up to full in his tactics! Aside from this run, something I started to think about, when confronted with mirror image: Imagine someone (A) having combat reflexes and enough +dex to hit all the images (of the caster: B), should he get an attack of opportunity at each. Now: Suppose he stands surrounded by the images (or has enough reach to cover them all) and the mirror-image caster provokes an AoO (he casts a spell not on the defense or moves away or something like that). Do ALL the images provoke AoOs, and does A get a single AoO against every single image of B or does he get only a single one and has to decide against wich image?
templer10 03-11-08, 01:32 PM	Longshot (templer10) vs Donata, Half-Giant Psychic Warrior 13 (Unknown Monster) is up. Things turned out a lot different than I expected... dont have time to go over it at the moment - But 1 thing i noticed - dispell checks is 11 (not 10) + ML + 5 - that means the vigor doesnt get dispelled in the first attack, might keep me alive. Assuming i do - i hope it's clear to get the hell out of there and not try vigor again for metamorph and note longshot quickened vigor contingency if relevent.
CrazyArtificer 03-11-08, 01:42 PM	Well, well, it nearly saved him by making me run away (<20hp condition), but as you stated: Luckily he didn't write to heal back up to full in his tactics! Aside from this run, something I started to think about, when confronted with mirror image: Imagine someone (A) having combat reflexes and enough +dex to hit all the images (of the caster: B), should he get an attack of opportunity at each. Now: Suppose he stands surrounded by the images (or has enough reach to cover them all) and the mirror-image caster provokes an AoO (he casts a spell not on the defense or moves away or something like that). Do ALL the images provoke AoOs, and does A get a single AoO against every single image of B or does he get only a single one and has to decide against wich image? It's the second. You get only one AoO against him.
MagicChoco 03-11-08, 01:45 PM	Shaela's luck is over the rooftops, aka Syril vs Shaela (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15311977&postcount=1812) is up! Rewards are still to be done, but expect them to be on soon. Rewards are up now. Tell me if something feels/is wrong.Ouch. Not much to do against those rolls. So mage armor doesn't stack...whoops. Then, or some reason I was thinking initiative would switch after Shaela shot...then forgot about the fact that shooting back would change that. Live and learn. :P Thanks for the run. :)
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 01:46 PM	Good catch t10 - with the order of the dispel checks preserved, that means the vigor is dispelled (31) on the second attack, and then dispelling buffer is dispelled (30). On the third attack, share pain is still dispelled with that 25 I had rolled accidentally in the first place. So the first attack hits and deals 17 damage to the vigor of each Longshot and Bullet. The second attack hits, dispelling Vigor and deals 17 damage to Longshot and 16 to Bullet. The third attack hits, dispelling Share Pain and deals 71 damage to Longshot.
templer10 03-11-08, 01:52 PM	Telin - Also note that you read the suppresing ability Wrong it has a maximum on the dispell check of +15 and you gave it +18.
Zevox 03-11-08, 01:56 PM	Raskos the Jade Father vs Archdevil Asran is up. It seems to me that Sauro's error on polymorph really cost him here - and it was still pretty close in a way. Well now, wasn't expecting the polymorph on Yaurl, but I think it actually worked to my advantage - lower AC, lower HP, no DR 10/silver. Made him a bigger melee threat, but an easier kill. Ironic. There are a few errors I noted, but nothing fight-changing I think. Sauro is right about Deep Slumber vs Pro Evil (though personally I don't like that ruling), and I noticed you missed my DR on the Imp's CDG too. Senorda also didn't move in and use her greatsword once Raskos was trapped in the tentacles. I don't think its worth bothering on any edits for though. Maybe theres the off chance it'd save me a spell or two on Senorda, but I'm fine with it as-is. My plan worked, which is more than I was expecting to happen, so I'll just be happy with Asran getting a win I thought he wouldn't :) . Kracknol vs Istima Not the race to deal over 100 hp of damage ... just 8. Predictable. Sorry Sauro, but after misjudging Kracknol so badly last time they fought, and the bad luck Istima has had for his past two fights, I decided to go with the trump card on this one. I'm actually surprised you didn't do likewise to Senorda in Raskos vs Asran. Even so though, I'm surprised you expected me to use Disintegrate. Allowing Kracknol a fortitude save to negate most of the damage doesn't look like a good idea to me - I'd have used Empowered Crystal Shard instead if I were going for an hp damage victory. Though reading your tactics did give me an idea of something to use Disintegrate for in future fights, but I'll keep that to myself :D . Zevox
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 02:00 PM	Thanks for the run. I didn't count on Senorda having such a tremendous AC. If I'd known that it would have really changed the plan of the battle. Anyway there are a few problem. In round 8 Asran falls asleep, and since he's a "natural" flier with wings that means he falls to the ground 25 feet below. This should make it impossible for him to stand from prone, fly 20' up, take a move action to hover, and use a standard action to attack Raskos on his turn that same round. After that it should be reasonably difficult for Asran to grapple Raskos in the next round or two. Raskos can fly 60' where Asran can only fly 40'. Also there are plenty of trees to use to block charge lanes. I expect him to eventually get a grapple, but with smart movement it should take a couple rounds. It should be hard for him to get more than an AoO against Raskos in any given round, and Raskos can avoid that for one extra round by using a 5' step. It would be most important if Raskos can get off his second Mindthrust w/o a concentration check. I was kind of disappointed that in round 11 Raskos casts dimension door, but doesn't move far enough away. He ends up close enough that Asran can base him in one round, and he's not flying high enough to avoid the black tentacles? That end point for the dimension door was terribly sub par. Lastly when grappled Raskos's AC should be 25, so none of those attacks by Asran is high enough to hit in the last round. (10 base +7 armor +4 Shield +4 defensive precog) I don't really expect these things to change the outcome, but there's a decent chance if the mindthrust hits. Thanks, SauroScratch that, nevermind... he has protection from evil going, and that protects him from any kind of ongoing mind control. Deep slumber counts, so Asran is immune to that. Zevox will probably want you to adjust the battle taking that into consideration, it will likely save his cohort some spells (like black tentacles). Ah good catch on the deep slumber. That would change things in Asran's favor - but I don't know that it would end up really changing anything. Scathers doesn't do the CDG, Raskos doesn't draw the wand most likely (would need a successful grapple check to draw the wand) and moves directly to the mind thrusts. Both of those fail, so Raskos then moves to the dimension door. On the note about the dimension door, I had to temper the want to get away with the want to use the tactics you gave me - ie - use the wand of crystal shard. Since we're talking about a short range power, it doesn't lend itself to DDooring far away. Even if it did - tactics the way they are mean that Asran and Senorda will come into sight eventually. You might get off one crystal shard (which misses), and then Senorda uses black tentacles on you - so it wouldn't change anything. As to getting out of the range of black tentacles - note that it is a 20ft spread effect that doesn't have to be centered on the ground - it can in fact be centered on the canopy (see the FAQ - ~pg77). In a short "ceiling" like the forest, there's really nothing to be done to avoid it. Well now, wasn't expecting the polymorph on Yaurl, but I think it actually worked to my advantage - lower AC, lower HP, no DR 10/silver. Made him a bigger melee threat, but an easier kill. Ironic. There are a few errors I noted, but nothing fight-changing I think. Sauro is right about Deep Slumber vs Pro Evil (though personally I don't like that ruling), and I noticed you missed my DR on the Imp's CDG too. Senorda also didn't move in and use her greatsword once Raskos was trapped in the tentacles. I don't think its worth bothering on any edits for though. Maybe theres the off chance it'd save me a spell or two on Senorda, but I'm fine with it as-is. My plan worked, which is more than I was expecting to happen, so I'll just be happy with Asran getting a win I thought he wouldn't . Right on the DR on the CDG. It doesn't matter anyway. On Senorda - I went back and reviewed again. Son of a gun - another thing I missed. I swear I read through those tactics and never saw the part about her using the greatsword - and that's when I went specifically looking for what she was supposed to do... BAH!
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 02:06 PM	Telin - Also note that you read the suppresing ability Wrong it has a maximum on the dispell check of +15 and you gave it +18. Hmm - I think we disagree on the reading of the line: Suppression: An opponent or object struck by this kind of weapon is subject to a targeted dispel psionics power. The wielder makes a power check (1d20 + 5 + manifester level, maximum +15) against a DC of 11 + the manifester level of the power to be dispelled. Bows, crossbows, and slings bestow this ability upon their ammunition, but can do so only three times per day. Moderate psychokinesis ML 10th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, dispel psionics; Price +2 bonus. Is the maximum of (5+ML) = +15 or is the maximum bonus from ML 15? (for a total dispel check of 1d20+20 at maximum). I could go with an elder ruling on it, but I read it as the latter when I read the power.
templer10 03-11-08, 02:13 PM	Hmm - I think we disagree on the reading of the line: Is the maximum of (5+ML) = +15 or is the maximum bonus from ML 15? (for a total dispel check of 1d20+20 at maximum). I could go with an elder ruling on it, but I read it as the latter when I read the power. I would say- as +15 - that's the way i seen it run and have run it myself for around the year i have been Around, Not to mention the fact that making it maximum of +20 is both making an already very strong ability (especially for +2) even Stronger (on the verge of broken IMHO). and Would go in the face of our recent nerfing of dispell psionics BECAUSE it was 2 strong.
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 02:24 PM	Since I made my statement, I have gone looking for someone who had a ML higher than 10 where this would have already been used and have not yet found such an individual. That said - the only one I know who uses a suppression weapon is Valen Sky (ML9). If you can point to me an example where it was used the way you state previously, I will edit the fight right now. Barring that - I'll need elder input on this.
templer10 03-11-08, 02:30 PM	Since I made my statement, I have gone looking for someone who had a ML higher than 10 where this would have already been used and have not yet found such an individual. That said - the only one I know who uses a suppression weapon is Valen Sky (ML9). If you can point to me an example where it was used the way you state previously, I will edit the fight right now. Barring that - I'll need elder input on this. Kracknol has a suppresing weapon - psi warrior 8/slayer 4 - ML 13 - he dispells on +15, let me go dig up some examples but you can see on his own tactics for this week fight he says so: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15312395&postcount=1813 Here is one with kracknol when i was the pitlord (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14911975&postcount=1677). And another one with hirumajoe as pitlord (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14773935&postcount=1630) -
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 02:33 PM	He's only ML11 - but you are right on his tactics. That said - it hasn't come up since he hit ML11 (the only times it would have were in the Sea Hag Sorcerer fight that you ran (he was enervated) and the fight Salrantol ran vs the Celestial charger - but there were no dispel checks made in that fight. Anyway - looks like Sauro's on-board with your interpretation. I would appreciate at least one more elder's POV on the subject before I edit.
SauroGrenom 03-11-08, 02:48 PM	He's only ML11 - but you are right on his tactics. That said - it hasn't come up since he hit ML11 (the only times it would have were in the Sea Hag Sorcerer fight that you ran (he was enervated) and the fight Salrantol ran vs the Celestial charger - but there were no dispel checks made in that fight.That just game me a great idea... Kracknol can hit himself for subdual damage, and dispel effects on himself... Could come in handy.
McJarvis 03-11-08, 02:57 PM	That just game me a great idea... Kracknol can hit himself for subdual damage, and dispel effects on himself... Could come in handy. Is that even legal? Like if you had suppression on a spiked chain, could you make a trip attack against yourself & not have to deal damage at all? Supression does not specify the weapon has to do damage- only hit.
Rauul 03-11-08, 03:03 PM	kai vs gortek is up linky (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15310192&postcount=1810) Just off hand... how do you sunder a weapon thats not wielded at the time?
lonewolf 03-11-08, 03:05 PM	Is that even legal? Like if you had suppression on a spiked chain, could you make a trip attack against yourself & not have to deal damage at all? Supression does not specify the weapon has to do damage- only hit. I used that with Karen a couple of times(in my tactics at least) and noone complained back then.
McJarvis 03-11-08, 03:06 PM	Just off hand... how do you sunder a weapon thats not wielded at the time? You have it on-hand to be drawn, so it's a "worn item".
SauroGrenom 03-11-08, 03:09 PM	He's only ML11 - but you are right on his tactics. That said - it hasn't come up since he hit ML11 (the only times it would have were in the Sea Hag Sorcerer fight that you ran (he was enervated) and the fight Salrantol ran vs the Celestial charger - but there were no dispel checks made in that fight. Anyway - looks like Sauro's on-board with your interpretation. I would appreciate at least one more elder's POV on the subject before I edit. Your interpretation simply never occurred to me. Now that I look at it, yours is just as reasonable as mine. Also you can compare it to the description in the dispel psionics power, where it says: Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or power is the target of the dispel psionics power. You make a dispel check (1d20 + your manifester level, maximum +10) against the power or against each ongoing power currently in effect on the object or creature. The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the power’s manifester level. If you succeed on a particular check, that power is dispelled; if you fail, that power remains in effect. Here the "maximum +15" clearly applies to "your manifester level". Why should we assume it is any different over in the psionic weapons section? Honestly I could fall on either side of that. Since I have a character in the midst of this, I'll abstain on an official vote.
Zevox 03-11-08, 03:40 PM	Like Sauro, I've always read the suppression effect the way templer10 is. However, now that you point it out Telin, your reading is equally valid. I'm honestly not sure which is correct. If I had to pick the one I'd prefer, I'd go with a +15 maximum total, but thats because I feel it would be too powerful otherwise, and is already quite powerful even with just that. I don't know whether that is really what the most accurate interpretation is, though, and Sauro's quotation from the power raises a good point against it. I'd like to hear what some of the other Elders have to say about that myself. Zevox
Callix 03-11-08, 03:48 PM	Altair & Mineau vs Ialgo & Uranedal is finished, but I can't seem to post in the battles thread (the "new post" page won't open). I'll put it in a separate thread for now. Link soon.
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 03:50 PM	@Callix - try going to the first page of the battles thread and doing a quick reply (even with just a "placeholder" for the text) and try saving it. I've found that it generally works for me.
templer10 03-11-08, 03:55 PM	Bestirah vs lord of the Dice Samuel is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15314604&postcount=1816).
Callix 03-11-08, 04:02 PM	Well, it's up. Before you complain about some fudging of positions, I know I cut both sides some slack. I'm fairly sure it comes out even. Also, Bless is missing all over the place, but almost no rolls missed by 1.
Turanson 03-11-08, 04:06 PM	Hey Callix Thank you very much for running the fight despite our late tatic. Only one thing I saw the Crystal Shard damage from the dodje should have been 2d6 (I think) but as we won it doesn't matter Ones again thank you for the run
lonewolf 03-11-08, 04:12 PM	Bestirah vs lord of the Dice Samuel is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15314604&postcount=1816). thanks for the run. unfortunatly there is a big mistake in there since 7pp ego whips "only" deal 2d4 damage. I assume that MWB will want that to be corrected.
dulsi 03-11-08, 04:13 PM	I've done up some of Snaga vs. Lelenia Rovan. I won't be able to finish until tonight.
Turanson 03-11-08, 04:17 PM	@Callix: Oh and in the Reward section I think you missed their Allies
Callix 03-11-08, 04:19 PM	And it's in Battles. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15315393&postcount=1818) Thanks Telin.
templer10 03-11-08, 04:22 PM	thanks for the run. unfortunatly there is a big mistake in there since 7pp ego whips "only" deal 2d4 damage. I assume that MWB will want that to be corrected. This hasnt been my week... Edit done - no change - Did just enough char dmg.
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 04:24 PM	No problem. Okay there are a few issues I see: 1. Any hit by ember needs a Reflex save to avoid 1d4 rounds of burning on the target. If he fails the save, he needs to spend a move action to put out the fire - I'm not sure whether this action draws an AoO though. 2. I can't figure out how it takes Ialgo 3 rounds to base someone who is 150ft away at the maximum that he has LOS to. He casts his hold person and moves towards Mineau - 120ft. Next round - he runs closer - he has 120ft of movement - so he should be able to base him. You can't really argue corners, since the hedges would block LOS. I'd go by positions on the map - but they are completely senseless for those rounds (in round 6 - I'm in the middle of the map with ~40ft to go to Mineau, in round 7 - I'm two blocks away and out of LOS?). If you could address those two issues - I would be happy. Thanks. EDIT: A couple of other things that I see: Deep slumber is a 1 round casting time. This means that Gunnor and Uranedal will both get an action in before the spell completes. It also means that Ialgo would get his action before Mineau completes the spell. Currently, Mineau is hit with an arrow for 7 damage. Since he didn't move away from Ialgo though - Ialgo's tactics do call for a burning hands spell. Regardless - Mineau will be needing to make a concentration check there.
CrazyArtificer 03-11-08, 04:41 PM	Deep slumber is a 1 round casting time. This means that Gunnor and Uranedal will both get an action in before the spell completes. It also means that Ialgo would get his action before Mineau completes the spell. Currently, Mineau is hit with an arrow for 7 damage. Since he didn't move away from Ialgo though - Ialgo's tactics do call for a burning hands spell. Regardless - Mineau will be needing to make a concentration check there. Adding one more thing. Round 9: Uranedal hits Mineau with a 12 damage shocking grasp, but Mineau is still at 19/19 hp at the end of the round. With the following Ialgo hit being 7 hp, Mineau is disabled. If he ends casting he drops, if not Uranedal and Gunnor are both awake and ready to cast/attack
whitebaron 03-11-08, 04:42 PM	just returned home... rewards for eds vs. monster will be up in a few minutes. edit: and are up. btw: you completely underestimated SE's power. with AoO and readied action hitting, he does well over 40 damage in one single pull.
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 04:56 PM	Adding one more thing. Round 9: Uranedal hits Mineau with a 12 damage shocking grasp, but Mineau is still at 19/19 hp at the end of the round. With the following Ialgo hit being 7 hp, Mineau is disabled. If he ends casting he drops, if not Uranedal and Gunnor are both awake and ready to cast/attack In a like-manner - I see that Altair's hp is not adjusted for the 2hp damage he takes in round 7, for 8 of the 10 damage in round 8 and another 3hp damage in round 9 is not recorded.
Hirumajoe 03-11-08, 05:03 PM	*facepalms* I apparently have been way too out of this weekend. Looking at the discussion, I just realized Callix was the pitlord for Altair and company... I sent the original team tactics to McJarvis. Apologies to those involved. Edit: Also, just a note, will be taking off from pitlording and characters for 1 to 2 weeks. I've got 7 days worth of conferences (at two different locations) with 2 presentations to make next week.
lonewolf 03-11-08, 05:15 PM	This hasnt been my week... Edit done - no change - Did just enough char dmg. thanks please also add the ongoing Mage armor and the dispel magic in Samuels ring of counterspells in the reward section
TelinArtho 03-11-08, 05:21 PM	Does the putting out of the flames from the burn special ability (see Thoqqua and Fire Elementals) provoke an AoO? I have found one of the quests I had with a fire elemental and Luni decided at that time that yes they did - though it was only brought up for the final fight. Reference point: http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-537793 I do not know if it has been discussed elsewhere though.
lonewolf 03-11-08, 05:25 PM	@McJarvis: Please add Falkos profession free activity to our Monster fight this week. ty
CrazyArtificer 03-11-08, 05:48 PM	Another small issue with Uranedal fight. I realized I can craft only 1000 gp marketprice worth/week as a free activity, but I'd like to use the remaining 250 gp for the 5 tanglefoot bags.
templer10 03-11-08, 06:36 PM	Would some Other elders Care to comment on the Suppressing weapon Issue? it's bad enough suppresing get you dispel at will, giving Them it at up to +20 gainble at level 15 (and +18 at 13) just seems wrong to me when the consensus was that Dispell psionics needed to be interprated in a way that limit's it's power - since the original meaning for it was deemed 2 Strong - i would think for consistency Sake at the least a similar Interpritation need to be made for suppresing. note - that when there are 2 equal possible interpretations and from the opinions noted at the very least there is no clear interpretation, shouldn't we go by what seems the more correct and by the precedent set on dispel psionics?
CrazyArtificer 03-11-08, 06:42 PM	Hmm - I think we disagree on the reading of the line: Is the maximum of (5+ML) = +15 or is the maximum bonus from ML 15? (for a total dispel check of 1d20+20 at maximum). I could go with an elder ruling on it, but I read it as the latter when I read the power. Well, it mimics dispel psionics. Dispel psionics caps at 1d20+10. The 5 bonus makes it cap at 1d20+15. I'd say 1d20+15 is the cap.
Salrantol 03-11-08, 07:06 PM	Well, since nobody got my trivia question last week (or even tried to answer :( ), here's the answer: The first team fight in the Core Coliseum was Xyanthraxia (xanadu) & Guts (Cerebus13) vs. Hagrid II (Pittbull) & Barak Brigandslayer (Salrantol), with the victory going to Hagrid II and Barak. I was reminded of this when Rauul was complaining about how his most successful character was his bard, so I went back to look at my best bard and saw that he had a 5-3 record himself. I'd bring him back if he seemed remotely feasible (you can look at his sheet and quickly see why he'd no longer work in CoCo).
SauroGrenom 03-11-08, 07:16 PM	Well, it mimics dispel psionics. Dispel psionics caps at 1d20+10. The 5 bonus makes it cap at 1d20+15. I'd say 1d20+15 is the cap.The +5 bonus works differently from the dispel psionics. The +5 is a bonus above the ML. Also dispel psionics caps at 1d20+10 normally, and 1d20+20 if you augment it. This suppression ability is a bit different... since a ML10 guy uses it with a 1d20+15 and that's not possible with a directly manifest power. For right now, the pitlord should simply decide which way he wants to see the issue. We'll hold a formal elder vote in the courtroom later. Personally I'm leaning toward Telin's interpretation for balance reasons. Melee builds are largely at the mercy of casters, and the suppression weapons are one of the few things that scare the high level psions. If the dispel check maxes at d20+15, then the melee guys see the greatest benefit at ECL10 and then the casters begin to make advances against the melee guys starting in ECL11. If you use Telin's reading, then the melee guys don't start to loose potency relative to the casters till ECL 20.
hogarth 03-11-08, 10:31 PM	just returned home... rewards for eds vs. monster will be up in a few minutes. edit: and are up. btw: you completely underestimated SE's power. with AoO and readied action hitting, he does well over 40 damage in one single pull. Thanks for the run. I don't think I (we) underestimated how much damage she can do (we both came up with an average of 41). In my case, I wasn't sure how dumb the skeleton would be played as; some pitlords might have it using "smart" tactics (like making Listen checks, readying to attack, grappling, etc.) instead of just playing dumb. Luckily that didn't happen.
dulsi 03-11-08, 11:45 PM	Snaga vs. Lelenia Rovan is complete.
Callix 03-12-08, 02:20 AM	Team Fight, Take II is up (I.e. edit's done). |Result changed. Altair doesn't use any move actions once the fight startsas he already drew his dorje, so the burn is not a problem. Deep Slumber, on the other hand, was vitally important. Of course, a little bit of luck helps! EDIT: Has anyone seen Durzulgor and/or MagicChoco? I can't find Shaela's fight for this week.
whitebaron 03-12-08, 02:46 AM	Snaga vs. Lelenia Rovan is complete. i have no current objections to the fight(as i won), but you forgot lelenias political career (see top of her sheet), and added the discount to Snagas 3FC information as well. things you missed (in case tdd wants something changed): -lelenia wanted to use a tanglefoot bag if snaga gets away repeatedly -squeezing through a grate is only half speed, but since you had both of us move to far sometimes, i guess it's fair. @callix: shaela won, and its in the battles already(and mentioned in the fotw) - seems you got a bit of a blind week ;)
CrazyArtificer 03-12-08, 03:21 AM	Team Fight, Take II is up (I.e. edit's done). |Result changed. Altair doesn't use any move actions once the fight startsas he already drew his dorje, so the burn is not a problem. Deep Slumber, on the other hand, was vitally important. Of course, a little bit of luck helps! EDIT: Has anyone seen Durzulgor and/or MagicChoco? I can't find Shaela's fight for this week. Thanks for fixing Callix. However Gunnor and the two elementals xp/gold penalty/premium should be factored in rewards. :)
Callix 03-12-08, 06:22 AM	Thanks for fixing Callix. However Gunnor and the two elementals xp/gold penalty/premium should be factored in rewards. :) ...And fixed. 12.5% look right for 1*ECL1 Merc and 2*CR1 Elementals in an ECL 5 team? @Durzulgor: Thanks for the run. The two twenties and the second sneak attack were very lucky for me, but if Syril just followed Shaela, it was all over already. I know that centre well now.
CrazyArtificer 03-12-08, 07:17 AM	...And fixed. 12.5% look right for 1*ECL1 Merc and 2*CR1 Elementals in an ECL 5 team? Not really. You have to apply penalties separately for each team member. So Uranedal would have a 8.whatever% penalty, Ialgo a 16.67% one and so on. On the other hand, each one of the opposite team members should get the average of the two (halved) as a bonus.
Callix 03-12-08, 07:37 AM	Not really. You have to apply penalties separately for each team member. So Uranedal would have a 8.whatever% penalty, Ialgo a 16.67% one and so on. On the other hand, each one of the opposite team members should get the average of the two (halved) as a bonus. Winners' rewards fixed. For the losers, the average of the two penalties (or the sum halved) is 12.5%. They get that, and it's a zero sum game. Please tell me it's done now.
CrazyArtificer 03-12-08, 07:41 AM	Winners' rewards fixed. For the losers, the average of the two penalties (or the sum halved) is 12.5%. They get that, and it's a zero sum game. Please tell me it's done now. Think so. Thank you :)
dulsi 03-12-08, 10:20 AM	i have no current objections to the fight(as i won), but you forgot lelenias political career (see top of her sheet), and added the discount to Snagas 3FC information as well. Fixed. things you missed (in case tdd wants something changed): -lelenia wanted to use a tanglefoot bag if snaga gets away repeatedly -squeezing through a grate is only half speed, but since you had both of us move to far sometimes, i guess it's fair. Hmm... I thought I did movement right. Well if The Dread Dormammu doesn't like the fight I can look into it. As for the tanglefoot bag, I didn't forget about it there just wasn't a good time to use it.