Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dracazar 04-18-06, 01:51 PM	Fights of the Week: April 19th Sheets Deadline for editing characters sheet is 21:00 GMT Greenwich Mean Time (http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com) shows the time and helps for conversions (http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/gmt-converter.htm) with your timezone Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Pairings GM Caterane will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline Make sure that your character is not in Prison (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571107&goto=lastpost) Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight If you need, there is a nice Template ready to use that will help you You could find very useful the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete Other useful links are Skills and Feats, Quick Access tables for XP and Gold Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't attack pitlords Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play Above all, have FUN! Lastest News Allies must be pre-buffed effective on April 19th From April 19 on, you have to prebuff your allies. You are not allowed to bring in allies not listed under prebuffs, and you are not allowed to leave allies at home if they're prebuffed with. This is to lower the diversity granted by ally swapping as well as making it easier to write tactics. Polymorph and Metamorphosis changes effective on April 19th 1. You must have an (appropriate) total Knowledge score equal to twice the HD of the monster you want to polymorph in. This also applies to Alter Self, Metamorphosis, and Wildshape. 2. Polymorph/Metamorphosis forms must be within one size category just like Alter Self. 3. Polymorph, Alter Self, Metamorphosis, and Wildshape that change your size count as a size change for purposes of stacking with other size-modifying spells and powers. 4. Polymorph is not shared with your familiar. You can specifically cast polymorph on it though (instead of yourself). 5. Just like resist energy and other spells, expendables with polymorph, alter self, or metamorphosis must be specified beforehand. Example: Scroll of Alter Self (Troglodyte). This only applies to expendables; not to memorized spells. This reduces the versitality of polymorph aswell as its power, and saves it from a ban. It is impossible to write tactics against with all monsters available. It is also too powerful by granting flight, natural armor and other benefits with just one spell. Huge size and impr.grab/swallow whole with a few additional buffs creates monsters far beyond anything you can defeat in combat. And if you share it with your familiar, you have suddenly two such monsters. This is just too much and the reason why fighters always lose in melee vs wizards. All affected characters can make a petition in the Character Changes thread till April 19 but it must be closely related to this change. In case of unclarified expendables, just write the form into parenthesis behind the scroll or stone; no need for a post in the Changes thread. We are discussin of Allies, Expendables, Polymorph and more in the Council of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=613697&goto=lastpost) P.S. Sorry, I was previewing the post for tomorrow and hitted save by mistake :)
MindWandererB 04-18-06, 02:19 PM	Let me point out that contrary to the quote that Dracazar just posted, Wildshape is currently not being restricted, subject to further discussion. That goes for all three of us that have it. :P
Dracazar 04-18-06, 02:36 PM	Nice to hear about Wildshape, I'll edit. Perhaps it was good to post this thread 1 day in advance so people could edit sheets for the new rules
MitzaVolchenko 04-18-06, 04:04 PM	Just for clarification, I see the new dice roller listed as 'use.' The rules still make online rollers optional, and the link to the roller is not listed there. Has something changed from the landslide of objections to mandatory online rollers? I will likely be working fights at work where I cannot use the online roller (at least for fights that are fairly straightforward). I always prefer to use an online roller, but with two dead hours of clean up time at work, I can do fights from there on paper and then transfer to mapping and post them when I get home if we have not gone to mandatory online rolling. Otherwise, I may have to cut my fight load down a bit. There is a big difference between transferring a completed fight to forums' formatting at 2am and starting from scratch after a full day at work.
SoulLord 04-18-06, 04:24 PM	You should use the CoCo Dice Roller for the fight the way I read it it's not mandatory ("Must") but highly encouraged. why don't you give the new online roller a try for one of your fights?
Sindorin 04-18-06, 05:36 PM	For some reason the last time I tried using the CoCo Die Roller it would not accept my name or something weird. It was a while back when it first came out, and I haven't used it in a while so maybe I was just being mean to it or something. OH well. Invisible Castle works just fine for me.
lonewolf 04-18-06, 05:56 PM	I work with the new roller all the time and I am very happy with it. I think that Drac deserves much more credit(s) for this work that saves so much time for the pitlords.
Erithmu 04-18-06, 06:01 PM	Just a forewarning about IC. It is currently on the fritz: it produces 2 or 3 rolls for each submitted roll, so just be aware that you state that in your fight or you will probably get some raised eyebrows from your gladiators. If you would like to check it look at the rolls I am making for the Winds of Change Campaign (roll ID: WoC)
Sindorin 04-18-06, 06:09 PM	Seriously, you gotta love it when every successful tactic you use causes some form of nerf.
Ariel23 04-18-06, 07:28 PM	I work with the new roller all the time and I am very happy with it. I think that Drac deserves much more credit(s) for this work that saves so much time for the pitlords. I voted vehemently against the mandatory online roller but I am one who also likes Drac's roller a lot. For the most part it is faster than rolling by hand. In fact, my group would like to add an online die roller to our own forums and I was thinking about asking Drac for his code. The geeks would change it of course but it would still be a nice basis for our own. (They'd have to change it b/c we would have different needs than the arena environment.)
Caterane 04-18-06, 08:09 PM	Wow Drac, that's the best top post ever. I think we should always use such a great header for the FotW threads.
Vathelokai 04-19-06, 03:55 AM	Seriously, you gotta love it when every successful tactic you use causes some form of nerf.:pint: :pint: :pint: Three cheers for the mage guild!
Abyssal Stalker 04-19-06, 11:34 AM	Wow Drac, that's the best top post ever. I think we should always use such a great header for the FotW threads.Yeah, but the "Oops, I posted it too early" -statement in the end kinda ruins it! :D
waywreth 04-19-06, 11:43 AM	The arena's first Thrallherd (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8581507&postcount=709) is ready for action this week! Wish me luck.
Ariel23 04-19-06, 02:17 PM	The arena's first Thrallherd (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8581507&postcount=709) is ready for action this week! Wish me luck. Your druid doesn't have an animal companion. I can see where you'd say "Don't bring him" in prebuffs but I'd think you'd still have to have one. I also have a thrallherd, but I need 12 credits to make her. That is actually the character I've been wanting to make since I joined. It's a totally different direction from Loquan, so no need to worry about that becoming the next cookie cutter build. I need to PM the scribelords because I didn't get my birthday credits last month. :gift:
Book5 04-19-06, 03:39 PM	I just realized that since Tan leveled he can afford another dog... I don't have time to edit Giggles into things.. but next week the dogherd get bigger!
SoulLord 04-19-06, 03:54 PM	If you get your forgery up perhaps you can even add more hounds to the pack
Pitlords 04-19-06, 06:02 PM	Pairings Done There are still fights outstanding. If anyone wants to take one, feel free. I'm thinking about a long-lasting state of emergency including the removal of miniquests during that time. It just can't go on like that. Izumi (Macbrea) vs. Unknown Monster : XXXXX [Monster] Micah Ashald (DarthVegan) vs. Ten Vermond (Soullord) : XXXXX Undertaker (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Alana Chu (barrel_master) : XXXXX Huginn Muninn (Azarias) vs. Jam Master Jay (Greezer) : XXXXX Riana Dreambinder (Ariel23) vs. Sećndithas (Sindorin) : XXXXX Little Daisy (DSugui) vs. Tueor (MysticMonk2005) : XXXXX On a side note, the invisible castle online roller always rolls two rolls instead of only one. That already happened in my last quest I ran for Dameon. Do you have the same problem? Credit Changes: +5: Mitza +4: Erithmu, Huan, Sauro, Caterane +3: Turin, Vathelokai, Myrridin +2: Mindwanderer, Stonetree, NiQil +1: Abyssal Stalker, Argaud, Mysticmonk, Pittbull +0: DSugui, Lonewolf, Zevox -1: Dracazar
Book5 04-19-06, 06:06 PM	@ pitlords - can I take the monster fight! @ soulord - :thinks: your right!
MindWandererB 04-19-06, 06:06 PM	I note that Evaine Dreamseeker is slated to fight both an unknown monster and Manzarf the Loathsome. That'll free up a pitlord.
Sindorin 04-19-06, 06:10 PM	The arena's first Thrallherd (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8581507&postcount=709) is ready for action this week! Wish me luck. We had one a while back I think... I don't remember whose it was though.
DSugui 04-19-06, 06:20 PM	Hey, double match against Book5! This will be fun!
MysticMonk2005 04-19-06, 06:23 PM	I'll pick up Micah Ashald (DarthVegan) vs. Ten Vermond (Soullord) : XXXXX Hopefuly some one will pick up Tueors fight so he can lvl <.<
Sindorin 04-19-06, 06:29 PM	Hmm if someone wants to take Riana vs. Seaendithas I could maybe take their unassigned fight...
SoulLord 04-19-06, 06:44 PM	I'll pick up Micah Ashald (DarthVegan) vs. Ten Vermond (Soullord) : XXXXX Hopefuly some one will pick up Tueors fight so he can lvl <.< Thanks for picking up the fight
Book5 04-19-06, 07:44 PM	Hey, double match against Book5! This will be fun! Are you suggesting your gonna have an easy time of it? You will die in slobbery doom! My Xeph is better than yours! ... actually no, but I think mine's gonna stomp yours just for the fun of it. ;)
MindWandererB 04-19-06, 07:58 PM	Are you suggesting your gonna have an easy time of it? You will die in slobbery doom! My Xeph is better than yours! ... actually no, but I think mine's gonna stomp yours just for the fun of it. ;)Yeah, yeah, quit trash-talking and write me some tactics. I need lots of time to deal with Tan. :P
lonewolf 04-19-06, 08:28 PM	@Huan: Finrods tactics sent. @Erithmu: first brainstorming ideas about our team tactics sent to you.
Sindorin 04-19-06, 08:33 PM	@DSugui: Tactics for Va'ria sent!
Ravashack 04-19-06, 08:34 PM	Perius's tactics sent to Huan via email.
Erithmu 04-19-06, 09:13 PM	White Hand (TheMagister) & Sola (Erithmu) vs. Sliver (MitzaVolchenko) & Loquan (waywreth) : Turin [Team] This is an ECL6 with Sola as ECL7 just a heads up I dunno if you want to bump Sola up or not ... EDIT: Suggestion to Pair Sola w/ Gaston and turn the fight above into a FFA. @Abyssal Stalker & Usrupator: Since Biota didn't post your tactics, please send them to me so that I can look them over and make comments.
MitzaVolchenko 04-19-06, 09:48 PM	White Hand (TheMagister) & Sola (Erithmu) vs. Sliver (MitzaVolchenko) & Loquan (waywreth) : Turin [Team] This is an ECL6 with Sola as ECL7 just a heads up I dunno if you want to bump Sola up or not ... EDIT: Suggestion to Pair Sola w/ Gaston and turn the fight above into a FFA. @Abyssal Stalker & Usrupator: Since Biota didn't post your tactics, please send them to me so that I can look them over and make comments. I am fine with it as is. @waywreth Try to catch me on IM to discuss tactics...otherwise it will be via PM. If you email me, you also have to PM me to go and look for the email. @my fighters Get those tactics in as early as possible. I have a big load and one of those messy multiplayer affairs to deal with. @my MQ's I'll have them posted by tomorrow afternoon. Most of my CoCo work willbe done at either 3am EST or on Saturday, so please be aware that I may not be here at the hours that you are. @my PL's, I'll get tactics out as early tomorrow as possible.
Turin 04-19-06, 09:52 PM	I got: White Hand (TheMagister) & Sola (Erithmu) vs. Sliver (MitzaVolchenko) & Loquan (waywreth) : Turin [Team] and Evaine Dreamseeker (Ariel23) vs. Unknown Monster : Turin [Monster] [Week 3] but I'm only signed up for 1 fight. I told Pitlords I could manage a team or FFA as my one fight, but I really can't handle two fights with one of them being team. I need to back out of one of these.
Book5 04-19-06, 09:59 PM	@ pitlords - can I take the monster fight! Make that... I'll take any of them. I may have more credits than anyother innactive pitlord... but I also want to keep it that way. :smirk: --- @ MindwandererB - Tactics sent PM. @ Huan - Tactics sent PM. :D
Sindorin 04-19-06, 10:13 PM	Book5 do you want to take Seaendithas vs. Riana?
Book5 04-19-06, 10:57 PM	It equally dangerous no matter what leauge it is... :P Yeah, snatch! Been wanting to take that newly improved dyanamap out for a spin... I hear it rolls two dice for the price of one these days! :D @ Dracazar - "Warning:" I may run some more bug testing!
Zevox 04-19-06, 10:59 PM	Sheesh, it seems as though I get paired with Hexacious Pogboomer every week now. Two weeks ago Eraca fought him, last week Alboreth did, and this week Destra does :uh-huh: . This is becoming creepy... @ Mitza, StoneTree, & Huan: I'll have tactics away tomorrow afternoon. Maybe if I absolutely can't stop myself one will be finished and sent tonight. Zevox
TheMagister 04-19-06, 11:24 PM	(whistles in admiration) Wow, some really tough draws this week for my guys. Sdentch has her work cut out for her, and TWH is up against some really rough characters. @my pitlords - look for tactics mid-to-late tomorrow night @Erithmu - we need to collaborate! drop me a PM when you're ready to talk tactics. TM
DSugui 04-19-06, 11:33 PM	@MindWandererB: tactics for Dronnar sent by PM @Turin: tactics for Daisy sent by PM @Huan: tactics for Valek sent by Email @Sindorin: tactics for Va'ria received I will travel tomorrow night and will return only Sunday night. I will run my fight on Sunday night, or maybe Monday.
Ariel23 04-20-06, 12:12 AM	Evaine Dreamseeker (Ariel23) vs. Unknown Monster : Turin [Monster] [Week 3] This fight is completed.
MindWandererB 04-20-06, 12:16 AM	Woot! Tactics recieved! This should be done quickly; I may be able to pick up another, we'll see.
Zevox 04-20-06, 12:55 AM	@ Huan - You would have Eraca's tactics (yeah, I couldn't stop myself :rolleyes: ), but your PM box is full. Please open some spaces in it so I can send them! Zevox
barrel_master 04-20-06, 01:06 AM	Ha ha... arg man... none of my guys got paired... ha ha... I suppose a prolonged state of emergency would be better if I could get at least one of my guys paired. :P
Zevox 04-20-06, 01:09 AM	Ha ha... arg man... none of my guys got paired... ha ha... I suppose a prolonged state of emergency would be better if I could get at least one of my guys paired. :P Um, what do you mean? Both look paired to me, you just need pitlords: Undertaker (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Alana Chu (barrel_master) : XXXXX Khabil (Traevanon) & Quesis II (Dracazar) vs. Mattes (mattes) & Alathar (barrel_master) : XXXXX [Team] Zevox
Ariel23 04-20-06, 01:41 AM	I would be happy to take a fight. Please try to use the email option in my account to notify me. I don't check my inbox all that often, but I check email 5 times per day, at least. I don't know if there's any 3 person hunters or FFA's out there, but I need credits, so either give me 2 or 4 people, please. Unless 3 gladiators counts as 1.5 credits? @Sindorin I posted some violations on Sećndithas in the prison thread. Edit: don't try to give me Riana's fight. I can take two of the ECL 3 fights or the team (2x2) fight.
MitzaVolchenko 04-20-06, 03:34 AM	Captain Sissay (Greezer) miniquests to join the EHTC: MitzaVolchenko [Miniquest] [Week 4] Is this the right guild? The character does not meet the qualifications as far as I can tell. She meets the non-good alignment but is not LE, an Outsider, Undead, nor does she posess the required skill ranks. [quote=EHTC Requirements]East Habari Trading Company Entry Requirements: 1. Any Non-Good Alignment 2. One of the following a. Alignment: Lawful Evil b. Skill: Appraise, Bluff, or Sense 5 ranks c. Type: Outsider, Undead Please contact the Guildmaster if you want to join.
Usurpator 04-20-06, 03:40 AM	@Pitlords: I think I can take one fight this weekend, prefer a FFA/Team/Hunter as usual.
Zevox 04-20-06, 03:49 AM	Captain Sissay (Greezer) miniquests to join the EHTC: MitzaVolchenko [Miniquest] [Week 4] Is this the right guild? The character does not meet the qualifications as far as I can tell. She meets the non-good alignment but is not LE, an Outsider, Undead, nor does she posess the required skill ranks. Yep, thats accurate. Greezer wanted her to join, so he set her to miniquest now. I don't know how he plans on having her meet the prerequisites, but getting the quest done now means she needn't do it when she manages to meet them if nothing else. Zevox
MitzaVolchenko 04-20-06, 03:59 AM	@MindwandererB Your MQ is up here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8982796#post8982796) Feel free to start posting. @Zevox Silly me, I was under the impression that you had to be acceptable to the guild before you could quest to join it. That is certianly why I held off on Sybil going for TAO until she levelled up to meet the requirements. The only thing that would easily meet the requirements with Sissay is if she pays the credits to shift alignment to LE. I'll PM Guildlords to make sure this is alright before I go forward with the MQ. We have plenty of time to kill a day or so getting it sorted out. @Abyssal Stalker Tactics for Zwei sent. PM with questions or if you and Vath want to move the fight to a seperate thread fight (which I am quite fine with).
Vathelokai 04-20-06, 04:14 AM	Auburn (Vathelokai) vs. Kracknol (SauroGrenom) : MysticMonk2005 Problem: We fought each other last week. Would it be okay if we did this instead Auburn (Vathelokai) and. Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs unknown monster : MysticMonk2005Maybe another 'seperate thread fight' if MM2005 is up for it. I can also pick up one fight. *EDITS* I was going to run a frozen quest for Vandalar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6452290), but he is not on the pairings roster. Do frozen quests get listed with the normal pairings? Sorry no, a team fight counts as 2 fights. We have no PL for that Well, guess it's a rematch.
Dracazar 04-20-06, 04:20 AM	@Sindorin about CoCo Dice Roller login: It could be not possible that It does not recognize you, perhaps you forgot the password. There is no way to recover the password, so register a new user and I may delete the old one (and rename the new one if you want) Also write down the password somewhere :) @lonewolf about CoCo Dice Roller happiness: Thank you for your nice words, I did the roller just to help Pitlords and it seems that the roller really helps Also that was a gift for Caterane birthday so I got no credits. If he would have payed me that would be not a gift :D I'm joking, don't worry, but I have still some credits left for the coco.php script Even for the Battle Map generator I got no credits but really I didn't asked for them and I don't need My prize is that you use those tools @Caterane: Thank you, I thought we need a better top post. Feel free to improve! And remove the Post Scriptum :) @ Book5: I love your bug testing :) Post them in my thread @All who used IC instead of CoCo Dice Roller: Convert!
MindWandererB 04-20-06, 04:31 AM	Since both of my gladiators were so good about getting me tactics in a timely manner, the fight between Dronnar and Tan is up! The fight originally had a much more entertaining ending, and I recommend reading the original ending. Since I was able to get this done early, I am free to take another fight. No FFAs, team fights, or monsters, please, but anything else should be okay, as long as it is assigned to me early so I can get it done before the weekend.
Pitlords 04-20-06, 05:50 AM	Some changes and pitlord assignments: White Hand (TheMagister) vs. Sliver (MitzaVolchenko) vs. Loquan (waywreth) : Turin [All vs All] Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Sola (Erithmu) : StoneTree Undertaker (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Alana Chu (barrel_master) : Ariel23 Huginn Muninn (Azarias) vs. Jam Master Jay (Greezer) : Ariel23 Micah Ashald (DarthVegan) vs. Ten Vermond (Soullord) : MysticMonk2005 I would like to let you know that I have absolutely no time till monday. This is a very important day for me and I need to prepare accordingly. That means I will decrease my prescence here for the next five days. Since my PM box will be full quickly, only send me a PM if it's necessary. Questions can be asked to the Elders. If you have found a Pitlord for your fight, write me a PM or email.
lonewolf 04-20-06, 08:22 AM	@Anaconda: The miniquest for Rinzwind is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8983515#post8983515).
DSugui 04-20-06, 08:39 AM	Since both of my gladiators were so good about getting me tactics in a timely manner, the fight between Dronnar and Tan is up! The fight originally had a much more entertaining ending, and I recommend reading the original ending. Thanks for running it so fast. It went as I have foreseen, but you are right - I took some chances, I am glad it worked out (man, the charge barely hit...)
Turin 04-20-06, 08:51 AM	White Hand (TheMagister) vs. Sliver (MitzaVolchenko) vs. Loquan (waywreth) : Turin [All vs All]Not to be a whiner, but this still hasn't solved my problem, as I have also now been assigned Little Daisy (DSugui) vs. Tueor (MysticMonk2005). I'm supposed to only be pitlording 1 fight... I'm not sure why it still says 2 in the pitlords list. We're getting low on pitlords... when the current quests wrap up and/or folks complete some of their long term crafting activities, it looks like we're going to be flush with gladiators without fights. I'll run both these fights but I need to warn that they're going to run close to deadline even if the players get their tactics to me ASAP. I'd like to encourage some of the folks with characters who aren't pitlording to get in on the game. Sheesh, it seems as though I get paired with Hexacious Pogboomer every week now.Yeah... maybe I'll actually win it this week! ;)
Macbrea 04-20-06, 09:17 AM	@Book5: Izumi (Macbrea) vs. Unknown Monster : Book5 [Monster] Any chance I can get a basic description of the creature as per the knowledge rules? Knowledge reads - No Ranks: Size and rough description (like 'huge monster') This would make writing tactics slightly easier. :P
Erithmu 04-20-06, 09:32 AM	@Stonetree: Tactics for Sola's new match sent. @Abyssal & Usurpator: got both your tactics will probably run friday or late tonight.
Turin 04-20-06, 09:37 AM	@ MitzaVolchenko: tactics for Dr. Hexacious Pogboomer sent!
SoulLord 04-20-06, 09:56 AM	@mostycmonk2005 tactics for ten vermond sent. @Vathelokai did you get an answer on Vandelars frozen miniquest?
Zevox 04-20-06, 09:58 AM	@Vathelokai did you get an answer on Vandelars frozen miniquest? I don't know if he did yet, but I can give you one: Frozen Quests work just like regular Quests with the difference that the questing characters neither gain XP or Gold, nor do they lose any items (the Questlord just writes 'none' under 'Items Used'). The reason for these quests is that some cannot play their character because their character is frozen or too high in level. Frozen Quests are purely roleplaying and have absolutely no impact in any way on the CoCo. They won't even appear on the Roster. The Questlord gains 2° per week normally and is not penalized if the quest takes longer (it still has to be done on week 6). So you're AOK for doing it, it just won't be on the roster since your character gains nothing from it. Zevox
Sindorin 04-20-06, 10:09 AM	@Sindorin about CoCo Dice Roller login: It could be not possible that It does not recognize you, perhaps you forgot the password. There is no way to recover the password, so register a new user and I may delete the old one (and rename the new one if you want) Also write down the password somewhere :) It works now. I must have had something typed wrong whenever I tried to log in when it first came out.
Sunwolf 04-20-06, 10:14 AM	@Myrridin FYI crafting time is based on the full price of the crafted items not the 50% price to make them -- ie 50 +1 Frost arrows is 8000gp so would take 8days to craft, likewise each srcoll of ice storm is 700gp for a total of 8000+1400=9400=> 2 weeks of crafting time. @Huan Would you be able to post or PM info that Leif gets for his monster fight so I can write and get you tactics? Thanks.
Dracazar 04-20-06, 10:15 AM	Please anyone would like to pitlord this: Khabil (Traevanon) & Quesis II (Dracazar) vs. Mattes (mattes) & Alathar (barrel_master) : XXXXX [Team] It should be hack and slash Thanks
Myrridin 04-20-06, 10:37 AM	@ Sunwolf: Crap...had I know it was going to take 2 weeks anyways, I would've crafted some more stuff, like other scrolls and such. Is it too late to add that in? I'd like to get the full value out of the time that Morgan will be sitting at home making stuff.
Sunwolf 04-20-06, 10:55 AM	@myrrdin Since you are taking two weeks anyway I don't see why you can't add some more stuff to craft. I would PM pitlords (after Monday since it isn't urgent) and update your crafting line so next week you will be working on whatever extra stuff you wanted.
SoulLord 04-20-06, 11:02 AM	I don't know if he did yet, but I can give you one: So you're AOK for doing it, it just won't be on the roster since your character gains nothing from it. Zevox Excelent I'll tell Vathelokai to go ahead with the frozen mini-quest then
Dracazar 04-20-06, 11:11 AM	@StoneTree: Uilo's tactic sent @Huan: Shaz's tactic NOT sent because PM full Quesis's tactic is ready if someone could pitlord EDIT: Huan I'm unable to use email now so I write tactic here Perius tactic from Ravashack should be already sent Perius (Ravashack) vs. Shaz Greatheart (Dracazar) : Huan 2006 April 19; Thanks for running the fight [A] Perius (Ravashack) [Power: 1332 (333); 6 won, 24 lost] [Failure] Neutral Good Human Wilder7; HP 41; AC 20 [A] Shaz Greatheart (Dracazar) [Power: 3980 (995); 7 won, 6 lost] [Q:2] Lawful Good Human Paladin4/Wilder3; HP 49; AC 21 Objectives: Attack, Vigor a lot, Win on the long long run Tactic: Start front center of the starting box holding longbow, Essence comes in arena Round 1) Essence looks for foe at max speed Round 1) Shaz Manifest Vigor 15 hp [ML3] (1 pp + 2 Wild Surge) and moves where Essence goes Round 2) Buff Magic Weapon upon the Falchion (only if Essence has no LoS) Go melee as soon as possible and don't let him refocus (also Essence watch this) If foe is near then go in melee and flank with Essence The basic idea is to resist a lot using Vigor, BodyFuel, LayOnHands, CureLightWounds Essence: Essence look for LoS with foe and wait that Shaz comes in melee When Shaz comes in melee the main objective of Essence is to flank the foe to grant +2 bonus to both Essence is instructed to use the Cure Light Wounds potion on Shaz if he falls down (below 0 hp) Essence stops melee if this penalizes Shaz shots with longbow Perius: If Shaz wins and he has still Lay on Hands then use upon Perius, he is a Good and also a Wilder like Shaz Free Activity: Profession(Diplomatic) 120 GP Contingencies: As soon as Shaz has 16 or more wounds (he is below 33 hp) use Lay on Hands to heal 16 hp As soon as 1st Vigor ends, use another Vigor 15 hp [ML3 (1 pp + 2 Wild Surge)] As soon as 2nd Vigor ends, use another Vigor 15 hp [ML3 (1 pp + 2 Wild Surge)] and so on... Shaz should be able to use Vigor several times (6 pp + Body Fuel) Shaz has Body Fuel feat, if out of power points take 1 point ability damage to Str, Dex, and Con to gain 2 pp Shaz uses Tumble to try to avoid any AoO Use the 5' step to cast or draw stones avoiding AoO, cast defensively if needed If out of tactic please Play the character, Shaz is a wise and powerful paladin Use Skate if foe is too fast Use Synesthete if unable to see hear the foe Note: If there are evident problems with this tactic please PM me, thanks
Ariel23 04-20-06, 12:00 PM	Undertaker (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Alana Chu (barrel_master) : Ariel23 Huginn Muninn (Azarias) vs. Jam Master Jay (Greezer) : Ariel23 @Abyssal Stalker @barrel_master @azarias Just in case you didn't notice that you were paired, please send me tactics. @greezer Tactics received
Usurpator 04-20-06, 12:17 PM	Originally Posted by Pitlords White Hand (TheMagister) vs. Sliver (MitzaVolchenko) vs. Loquan (waywreth) : Turin [All vs All] Not to be a whiner, but this still hasn't solved my problem. I am taking this one of your hands Turin, PM'ing all concerned parties now.
waywreth 04-20-06, 12:40 PM	@Usurpator - Tactics for Loquan and company sent for: White Hand (TheMagister) vs. Sliver (MitzaVolchenko) vs. Loquan (waywreth) : Turin Usurpator @Stonetree - Tactics for Gaston in Gaston vs. Sola sent.
barrel_master 04-20-06, 01:26 PM	Um, what do you mean? Both look paired to me, you just need pitlords: Zevox Bop... yup that's what I ment... I aint got no pitloards (until Ariel so nicely volenteered for Alana) not that I ain't been paired... my mistake (again).
TheMagister 04-20-06, 01:51 PM	(sarcastically) Oh, fanTAStic! Now I get to face mistress DR 10/cold iron AND Mr. Mega-minions at once, only now I'm alone! It's enough to make a guy turn blackguard. !! (thinks) ... Darned lack of feat slots. TM
Abyssal Stalker 04-20-06, 02:04 PM	To my Pitlords: Tactics sent for Jonathon, Undertaker and Manzarf!
waywreth 04-20-06, 02:08 PM	(sarcastically) Oh, fanTAStic! Now I get to face mistress DR 10/cold iron AND Mr. Mega-minions at once, only now I'm alone! It's enough to make a guy turn blackguard.!! (thinks) ... Darned lack of feat slots. TM Hmm good point, I forgot to buy my +5 forgery tool too, next week, more minions!
MindWandererB 04-20-06, 02:11 PM	Please anyone would like to pitlord this: Khabil (Traevanon) & Quesis II (Dracazar) vs. Mattes (mattes) & Alathar (barrel_master) : XXXXX [Team] It should be hack and slash ThanksI dunno about hack and slash, but I'll take it. ECL 3, shouldn't be too bad. If all parties could try to get me tactics ASAP, no later than tomorrow 5 pm GMT, that would be great. If I do get tactics later than that, there's a good chance I'll have to run what I can and pass it off to someone else later on, so please try to get them to me quickly.
Turin 04-20-06, 02:22 PM	I am taking this one of your hands Turin, PM'ing all concerned parties now.Thanks a bunch, Usurpator.
Sunwolf 04-20-06, 03:18 PM	@Mitza Tactics for Telveran sent by PM.
MitzaVolchenko 04-20-06, 03:42 PM	@Usurp I had started on team tactics and will have to look it over for FFA. I do not generally participate in FFA's. I think they are a waste of time as they are currently set up and the arena that they run in is severly disadvantageous for my little flyer. I probably won't get the tactics in until tomorrow. @the other PL's that are overloaded. I will take up to two more fights, but they MUST be one vs. one. I refuse to take on any more multis as they are too complex to be worth it for me. @Greezer I still have no answer from above on your MQ. If I don't have one by the time I get home from work at 2am tomorrow morning I will set your quest as is. @Turin and Sunwolf, tactics received. @Abyssal Stalker, tactics for Zwei sent.
MysticMonk2005 04-20-06, 04:52 PM	@Turin: Tactics for Tueor sent via PM. @DSugi: Expect Lissa's tactics late tonight. And enjoy your win vs Tueor.
Salrantol 04-20-06, 05:15 PM	@lonewolf: Tactics sent for Enoch the Prophet
Zevox 04-20-06, 05:39 PM	@ StoneTree - Tactics for Archdevil Asran (vs Uilo) have been PMed. Should be an interesting match. @ MitzaVolchenko - Tactics for Destra Stormwind (vs Dr. Hexacious Pogboomer) have been PMed. @ Huan - Still waiting on you to empty that PM box to send Eraca's tactics. Zevox
Sindorin 04-20-06, 05:44 PM	@the other PL's that are overloaded. I will take up to two more fights, but they MUST be one vs. one. I refuse to take on any more multis as they are too complex to be worth it for me. Would you be willing to run unassigned fight: Riana Dreambinder (Ariel23) vs. Seaendithas (Sindorin)? It is ECL 4 and 1vs1.
Erithmu 04-20-06, 07:54 PM	@Mitza: team tactics for Loddick(Erithmu) and Kitty(Lonewolf) sent, PM us back if you have questions.
TheMagister 04-20-06, 08:13 PM	Ok. With the new polymorph house rules in effect, I need some direction for TWH's usage of the alter self scroll he carries around. TWH has NO (count 'em) ranks in knowledge skills. Does this mean that the only creature he can alter himself into is a human (since he IS one)? Can he assume the form of a halfling? Dwarf? Elf? Etc.? Thanks for the help in advance! TM
TheMagister 04-20-06, 08:15 PM	Would you be willing to run unassigned fight: Riana Dreambinder (Ariel23) vs. Seaendithas (Sindorin)? It is ECL 4 and 1vs1. If he doesn't, I will! TM
lonewolf 04-20-06, 08:17 PM	Ok. With the new polymorph house rules in effect, I need some direction for TWH's usage of the alter self scroll he carries around. TWH has NO (count 'em) ranks in knowledge skills. Does this mean that the only creature he can alter himself into is a human (since he IS one)? Correct. Although I am sure that Cat would allow you to refund this Alter Self scroll.
TheMagister 04-20-06, 08:24 PM	Correct. Although I am sure that Cat would allow you to refund this Alter Self scroll. Nah. It's still useful in other ways. And next level (and its skill points) are close by. Thanks for the quick response...I had feared that I knew the answer. TM
Book5 04-20-06, 09:07 PM	We have a surrender on first fight, no maven though.. whats a fighter to do vs a swarm of locusts? Izumi's unlucky walk home.
Huan 04-20-06, 09:11 PM	@Book5, Ravashack, Lonewolf, DSugui Got your tactics. @Zevox, Sunwolf, Dracazar My PM box has been cleaned, so its ok to submit tactics there (in the future, dont be afraid to email me with them in the event my box is full). @MitzaVolchenko, lonewolf I'm sorry to delay you both, but you'll get mine tomorrow.
TheMagister 04-20-06, 09:24 PM	@Usurpator - losing tactics for TWH sent for the Free-For-All-let's-kill-the-weakling-rogue fight. (sigh) TM
Zevox 04-20-06, 09:28 PM	@ Huan - Tactics for Eraca Moralta (vs Finrod Felagund), aka the TAO sparring match, have been sent. Enjoy :) . Zevox
DarthVegan 04-20-06, 10:15 PM	@MysticMonk2005: Tactics for Micah vs. Ten sent via email and PM
TheMagister 04-20-06, 10:32 PM	@DSugui - tactics for Sdentch sent via PM. TM
MindWandererB 04-20-06, 11:06 PM	Ok. With the new polymorph house rules in effect, I need some direction for TWH's usage of the alter self scroll he carries around. TWH has NO (count 'em) ranks in knowledge skills. Does this mean that the only creature he can alter himself into is a human (since he IS one)? Can he assume the form of a halfling? Dwarf? Elf? Etc.? Thanks for the help in advance! TMRemember that one of the rule changes makes it so that the form has to be pre-specified on the scroll. So it would be a scroll of Alter Self (troglodyte), or whatever.
TheMagister 04-20-06, 11:21 PM	Remember that one of the rule changes makes it so that the form has to be pre-specified on the scroll. So it would be a scroll of Alter Self (troglodyte), or whatever. Yeah. I'll specify which when I get TWH some knowledge skills. Thanks for the reminder. TM
waywreth 04-20-06, 11:44 PM	@Usurpator - losing tactics for TWH sent for the Free-For-All-let's-kill-the-weakling-rogue fight. (sigh) TM Actually I'm gunning for the 6hp pixie first. But we'll see. Unless Loquan changed his mind. That sorta thing happens you know.
TheMagister 04-20-06, 11:47 PM	Well, then I might have a chance in Hades.
Erithmu 04-20-06, 11:51 PM	What type of bonus is the cover bonus for riding: ex Dodge, cover. and does it count against touch attacks?
NiQil 04-20-06, 11:56 PM	What type of bonus is the cover bonus for riding: ex Dodge, cover. and does it count against touch attacks? Cover is an unnamed AC bonus, so it will stack with anything....and touch attacks only deny armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses, so cover would still apply.
Erithmu 04-21-06, 12:56 AM	Jonathan vs Flamehair is up. No love for anybody till the very end. Then the distribution of unwanted love.
MitzaVolchenko 04-21-06, 02:53 AM	@ Zevox and lonewolf tactics received. @Usurp I am working on tactics now, but man do I hate FFA's. Sliver is even pretty well equipped for them, but I HATE them.
MitzaVolchenko 04-21-06, 02:56 AM	Would you be willing to run unassigned fight: Riana Dreambinder (Ariel23) vs. Seaendithas (Sindorin)? It is ECL 4 and 1vs1. Sure. Send me tactics ASAP and PM Cat or whoever is managing while he is indisposed to put it up official like so that I can remember what I am doing...I am still blonde for all that I am an evil genius ;)
MysticMonk2005 04-21-06, 02:58 AM	@Soullourd, Darth Vegan, SauroGrenom: Tactics recieved. @Vathelokai: Still waiting for tactics. @DSugi: Tactics for Lissa sent via PM.
Pittbull 04-21-06, 03:09 AM	@Mitza: I've sent KazzzAHM's tactic to you and Argaud. He will adjust his one and send it to you too.
MitzaVolchenko 04-21-06, 07:02 AM	Hexacious vs. Destra and hte Pack is up here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8991834&postcount=554) @ Usurp I need sleep before I finish Sliver's tactics. @ Pitbull received and waiting for any last minute tweaks and to have Macbrea handy to annoy with questions before I run that mess. @ the reamining fighters whose tactics I eagerly await, the sooner you get 'em to me the sooner you can start picking my fights apart and the more likely that I will have time for edits. I always hate to refuse edits, particularly when I have made a truly bad error, but with my load this week, it could happen if I don't get everything in the books early enough.
Abyssal Stalker 04-21-06, 08:37 AM	Jonathan vs Flamehair is up. No love for anybody till the very end. Then the distribution of unwanted love. Thanks for running it! Man, I hate psionics. They just suck for being too good.
Turin 04-21-06, 09:01 AM	Hexacious vs. Destra and hte Pack is up here.Oh hell... I screwed that up slightly. I should have put in a contingency for what to do if my initial color spray failed. I might have had chance if I'd used my second color spray instead of the scorching ray. <sigh> I'm 3-0 against you this month, Zevox. And that was an expensive fight, to boot! One correction that will have an effect: in the rewards section you forgot that Dr. Pogboomer used a scroll of scorching ray.
Vathelokai 04-21-06, 09:57 AM	Tactics sent to Abyssal and MM2005. @Questors: WIll be on later today. @TAO: will update later today as well.
Argaud 04-21-06, 10:24 AM	@MitzaVolchenko - Tactics for Korinel team fight sent by PM. @SauroGrenom - Tactics for Gorgul's fight are here.
SauroGrenom 04-21-06, 10:40 AM	@MitzaVolchenko - Tactics for Korinel team fight sent by PM. @SauroGrenom - Tactics for Gorgul's fight are here. I always get my fights done on saturday or sunday. That's when I'll get this done as well.
Sindorin 04-21-06, 11:30 AM	Sure. Send me tactics ASAP and PM Cat or whoever is managing while he is indisposed to put it up official like so that I can remember what I am doing...I am still blonde for all that I am an evil genius ;) Is there any other kind? I just caught this now so I will send tactics now. Thank you.
MysticMonk2005 04-21-06, 12:47 PM	@Vath: tactics recived.
Sindorin 04-21-06, 01:23 PM	Tactics for Seaendithas written and sent. Thanks Mitza
Zevox 04-21-06, 01:34 PM	@ Mitza - Fight looks pretty good. The only thing is that you forgot Destra's resist energy when calculating damage from the scorching ray, but considering she won anyway and the only thing it'd change would be saving her one use of her CLW wand I have no problems with it. Thanks for running it, especially so fast! Zevox
Ariel23 04-21-06, 02:18 PM	@Azarias Need tactics @Mitza Tactics sent. Thanks a lot for running. Don't think I would have noticed if Sindorin hadn't said anything. @AbyssalStalker @Barrel_master (@ Greezer) Tactics received.
MitzaVolchenko 04-21-06, 03:09 PM	@ Mitza - Fight looks pretty good. The only thing is that you forgot Destra's resist energy when calculating damage from the scorching ray, but considering she won anyway and the only thing it'd change would be saving her one use of her CLW wand I have no problems with it. Thanks for running it, especially so fast! Zevox Sorry about that. If there is no objection from the opposition, I will simply remove the charge use. However had you stayed out in the open, it might have been fight affecting...prbably not since he would have taken AoO's to the same end result in attempting to get a second scroll of scorching ray out and ray of frost wouldn't have been enough to kill you. If I get time, I'll correct it to at least not waste your wand charge.
Turin 04-21-06, 03:36 PM	Sorry about that. If there is no objection from the opposition, I will simply remove the charge use. However had you stayed out in the open, it might have been fight affecting...prbably not since he would have taken AoO's to the same end result in attempting to get a second scroll of scorching ray out and ray of frost wouldn't have been enough to kill you. If I get time, I'll correct it to at least not waste your wand charge.No objections here... I hadn't noticed the error myself, but it makes no difference whatsoever in the outcome.
Abyssal Stalker 04-21-06, 04:25 PM	Hassan has fought Zwei (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8996258&postcount=555). Check for mistakes.
MitzaVolchenko 04-21-06, 04:31 PM	Hassan has fought Zwei (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8996258&postcount=555). Check for mistakes. I am not sure and will check more thoroughly later, but I do not have to have him in sight or pinpointed to use deflect arrows...just have to not be flat-footed. As soon as I hear him at all, I can deflect the incoming missile.
Macbrea 04-21-06, 04:32 PM	Did Hassan cast true strike on round 4 and use it on round 6? You might want to reread that spell.
Book5 04-21-06, 05:18 PM	Sigh, nice to see Tan's failures are coming close to the wire.. can I get some dice love? Well a dog will do ;)
MindWandererB 04-21-06, 05:45 PM	I am not sure and will check more thoroughly later, but I do not have to have him in sight or pinpointed to use deflect arrows...just have to not be flat-footed. As soon as I hear him at all, I can deflect the incoming missile.The text says you have to be "aware of the attack." The consensus in the past has been that you have to see something to be aware of it. At least, that's how my monks keep dying. :P Also: Khabil Barukh (Traevanon) and Quesis (v.2) (Dracazar) vs. Mattes Gearos (mattes) and Alathar Vierce (v.2) (barrel_master): MindWandererB [ECL3 Team Fight] is up! It was pretty straightforward, as predicted, but let me know if there are problems that need to be addressed.
barrel_master 04-21-06, 07:29 PM	The text says you have to be "aware of the attack." The consensus in the past has been that you have to see something to be aware of it. At least, that's how my monks keep dying. :P Also: Khabil Barukh (Traevanon) and Quesis (v.2) (Dracazar) vs. Mattes Gearos (mattes) and Alathar Vierce (v.2) (barrel_master): MindWandererB [ECL3 Team Fight] is up! It was pretty straightforward, as predicted, but let me know if there are problems that need to be addressed. Ha ha... I especially enjoyed the fact that you said my AC was hot...
MitzaVolchenko 04-21-06, 07:52 PM	The text says you have to be "aware of the attack." The consensus in the past has been that you have to see something to be aware of it. At least, that's how my monks keep dying. :P Also: Khabil Barukh (Traevanon) and Quesis (v.2) (Dracazar) vs. Mattes Gearos (mattes) and Alathar Vierce (v.2) (barrel_master): MindWandererB [ECL3 Team Fight] is up! It was pretty straightforward, as predicted, but let me know if there are problems that need to be addressed. So blind characters are always unaware? A listen check means I have enough awareness to go looking for him in that area. Aware does not mean sees. Aware means, just that, aware of the pending closeness of a threat. As soon as the listen check succeeds, I have the ability to face that direction and when the arrow leaves his bow it becomes visible along with him.
lonewolf 04-21-06, 08:01 PM	I am still missing tactics for: Evaine Dreamseeker (Ariel23) vs. Manzarf (Abyssal Stalker) : Lonewolf Dameon Leonne (Huan) vs. Enoch the Prophet (Salrantol) : lonewolf Since I absolutely HAVE to run at least one of those tomorrow, I will use default tactics for Evaine and have Dameon surrender(no default tactics) tomorrow if I dont get tactics by then.
TheMagister 04-21-06, 08:01 PM	So blind characters are always unaware? A listen check means I have enough awareness to go looking for him in that area. Aware does not mean sees. Aware means, just that, aware of the pending closeness of a threat. As soon as the listen check succeeds, I have the ability to face that direction and when the arrow leaves his bow it becomes visible along with him. Well, blind characters (without magical/psionic help) ARE always denied their dex/dodge boni to AC. It has already been ruled that you can't use the "gain cover from mount" Ride skill option unless you can see your opponent's attack. This definitely seems to be of the same flavor. My opinion. TM
MitzaVolchenko 04-21-06, 08:04 PM	@Usurpator Tactics for Sliver sent...send a PM if you need clarification.
TheMagister 04-21-06, 08:09 PM	@Usurpator Tactics for Sliver sent...send a PM if you need clarification. Yay! Time for TWH to die gloriously to a little girly-bug 1/2 his size! :cheer: TM
Vathelokai 04-22-06, 02:38 AM	Hassan has fought Zwei. Check for mistakes. Round 4: I think Zwei would have heard me there. (z listen -2+1d20=14) Isn't there a -11 range modifier, and activating a wand is a DC 0 listen check. Not such a big deal, since I said in the tactics that it was okay if a charge or two got wasted. Round 5+: truestrike has a durration of 1 round. If it is not used then it is wasted. I was not explicit enough in my tactics, but did imply I wanted to have the shot lined up before using the wand. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flatfooted. Seems I miss read that. I was under the impression that it worked like sneak attack, where if someone is denied their dex bonus they are suseptible to 'flatfooted' attacks. (thus the invisibility, so that my opponents loose dex bonus). If this is not the case, then there have been a number of incorrect fights... anyone know if this is in the FAQ?
NiQil 04-22-06, 03:35 AM	Round 4: I think Zwei would have heard me there. (z listen -2+1d20=14) Isn't there a -11 range modifier, and activating a wand is a DC 0 listen check. Not such a big deal, since I said in the tactics that it was okay if a charge or two got wasted. Round 5+: truestrike has a durration of 1 round. If it is not used then it is wasted. I was not explicit enough in my tactics, but did imply I wanted to have the shot lined up before using the wand. Seems I miss read that. I was under the impression that it worked like sneak attack, where if someone is denied their dex bonus they are suseptible to 'flatfooted' attacks. (thus the invisibility, so that my opponents loose dex bonus). If this is not the case, then there have been a number of incorrect fights... anyone know if this is in the FAQ? Keep in mind that you can be flat-footed, but not lose your Dex bonus to AC. An example of this would be a barbarian or rogue with Uncanny dodge who can be caught flat-footed, but retain their Dex to AC by virtue of Uncanny Dodge. Being flat-footed does not automatically mean that you are denied your Dex to AC. Being denied your dex to AC also does not automatically mean you are flat-footed. A character who is stunned is denied their Dex bonus to AC, but is not considered flat-footed, for example. The two conditions are often confused and thought of as the same, since for most characters the end result is the same, but they are separate conditions that a character can be put into based upon the circumstances.
TheMagister 04-22-06, 03:45 AM	so it seems that the definition in question is that of whether or not a character is "aware of the attack" if the attack is made by an invisible creature/character. Can monks (or anyone with the deflect arrows feat) deflect an arrow fired by an invisible attacker? by the same token (as I mentioned before): Can a rider "react instantly" to take cover from his mount from an arrow fired by an invisible attacker? They both use the same language (you must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed, I mean). TM
Pittbull 04-22-06, 03:46 AM	@Longbow: Why didn't you send me any tactics? You have been very lucky, that I incidentally found Zevox' post in the 12.April-Fight-Thread. Otherwise I would have used your default-tactic. Please consider it's not my duty to search for your tactic, but it your duty to send my yours until the deadline (it's friday [GMT]). Anyway, everything is OK now I have the tactics from both now and can start to run the fight.
Usurpator 04-22-06, 07:26 AM	So blind characters are always unaware? A listen check means I have enough awareness to go looking for him in that area. Aware does not mean sees. Aware means, just that, aware of the pending closeness of a threat. As soon as the listen check succeeds, I have the ability to face that direction and when the arrow leaves his bow it becomes visible along with him. Blind characters are certainly not always unaware. But knowing what is coming does not count as 'being aware' for every action you want to take. Your awareness must be specific enough to counter the potential threat. Every gladiator that enters the arena is aware that his opponent is there with him. But that awareness won't get him anything, its too general. You claim that awareness of the general direction of an opponent by sound is enough to be able to use Deflect Arrows (if that opponent shoots an arrow at you). I think it is not sufficient. Your 'level of awareness' should be sufficient to have you take adequate countermeasures. Losing your Dex bonus versus attacks generally means you are not able to 'react' to an attack. Deflecting Arrows counts as a 'reaction' to me. Just as using your mount for cover does. So no Deflecting Arrows.
Usurpator 04-22-06, 07:27 AM	@Usurpator Tactics for Sliver sent...send a PM if you need clarification. Sent a PM asking for clarifications.
Usurpator 04-22-06, 08:04 AM	Jonathan vs Flamehair is up. No love for anybody till the very end. Then the distribution of unwanted love. Thanks for running it! That was the fastest run fight in my time in the CoCo yet! Of course, it helped that our tactics were available early due to the fight being held over. Notes: Round 4 That was funny! :D Second time it happened to a character of mine in the CoCo, and both times the Pitlord allowed it, but the horse made the save! But really, Flamehair's horse doesn't speak a syllable of Common, and would just stare stupidly at anyone who would use Command, Suggestion or similar language-dependent spells at her. Round 4 What, Rules of the Game article that allows a rider to use a Ride check instead of a Str check against Trip!!! :eek: I was not aware (as I generally are no aware of any Rules of the Game house rules), and by my calculations I was looking at a +14 check vs. a +4 check (+2 Str, +2 saddle). +4 vs. +9 is a huge difference. Generally, I dislike the fact that Rules of the Game is seen as a rules source here. Skip has some good clarifications, but also uses the article to introduce many of his own house rules, some of which are weird or clunky. Next to that, he mixes 'rules' with 'suggestions', and he makes mistakes. To me this makes the Rules of the Game unusuable as a primary source. Additionally, the policy of Pitlords seems to be: use some of these rules (if they are aware) and ignore others (even if they are aware). I have never seen any Pitlord use the 'share spell' ability as Skip suggested with a Bull's Strength (which is dividing the +4 bonus between you and your familiar/animal companion). Which is good, because his house rule goes against any kind of common sense, don't know of anyone who ever used share spell that way. So, I am a bit upset by an unexpected rule turning its ugly head, but satisfied that Flamehair clobbered Jonathan despite that. Also Round 4 Flamehair cannot draw her flail while charging. Charging is a full round action, and drawing a weapon as free action is only possible during a 'regular move', which is 'a move action in which you move up to your speed'. So it would just be a regular attack, but since it failed anyway, it doesn't matter. Once again, thanks for running it! Kitaya's loss has been avenged! :cheer:
Abyssal Stalker 04-22-06, 08:37 AM	I have posted a question to the Ask an Elder -thread about the issue Mitza brought up on the Zwei vs Hassan fight. Currently I'll stick with my ruling on that one, but I'll change it if someone of the Elders tell me I'm wrong! I'll check the other questionmarks as soon as I get some time to do it.
Abyssal Stalker 04-22-06, 08:42 AM	Thanks for running it! That was the fastest run fight in my time in the CoCo yet! Of course, it helped that our tactics were available early due to the fight being held over. Notes: Round 4 That was funny! :D Second time it happened to a character of mine in the CoCo, and both times the Pitlord allowed it, but the horse made the save! But really, Flamehair's horse doesn't speak a syllable of Common, and would just stare stupidly at anyone who would use Command, Suggestion or similar language-dependent spells at her. Round 4 What, Rules of the Game article that allows a rider to use a Ride check instead of a Str check against Trip!!! :eek: I was not aware (as I generally are no aware of any Rules of the Game house rules), and by my calculations I was looking at a +14 check vs. a +4 check (+2 Str, +2 saddle). +4 vs. +9 is a huge difference. Generally, I dislike the fact that Rules of the Game is seen as a rules source here. Skip has some good clarifications, but also uses the article to introduce many of his own house rules, some of which are weird or clunky. Next to that, he mixes 'rules' with 'suggestions', and he makes mistakes. To me this makes the Rules of the Game unusuable as a primary source. Additionally, the policy of Pitlords seems to be: use some of these rules (if they are aware) and ignore others (even if they are aware). I have never seen any Pitlord use the 'share spell' ability as Skip suggested with a Bull's Strength (which is dividing the +4 bonus between you and your familiar/animal companion). Which is good, because his house rule goes against any kind of common sense, don't know of anyone who ever used share spell that way. So, I am a bit upset by an unexpected rule turning its ugly head, but satisfied that Flamehair clobbered Jonathan despite that. Also Round 4 Flamehair cannot draw her flail while charging. Charging is a full round action, and drawing a weapon as free action is only possible during a 'regular move', which is 'a move action in which you move up to your speed'. So it would just be a regular attack, but since it failed anyway, it doesn't matter. Once again, thanks for running it! Kitaya's loss has been avenged! :cheer: I somehow missed the whole language-dependent thingie...I just read the spell descreption and there was nothing about the languages. I should've read more carefully. Stupid me! Kitaya's lost may have been avenged, but it certainly isn't forgotten :)
Zevox 04-22-06, 11:05 AM	Round 4 What, Rules of the Game article that allows a rider to use a Ride check instead of a Str check against Trip!!! :eek: I was not aware (as I generally are no aware of any Rules of the Game house rules), and by my calculations I was looking at a +14 check vs. a +4 check (+2 Str, +2 saddle). +4 vs. +9 is a huge difference. Actually, its not a Rules of the Game article that permits it: its right in the SRD/PHB rules about tripping. Tripping a Mounted Opponent: You may make a trip attack against a mounted opponent. The defender may make a Ride check in place of his Dexterity or Strength check. If you succeed, you pull the rider from his mount. Zevox
Usurpator 04-22-06, 11:50 AM	Actually, its not a Rules of the Game article that permits it: its right in the SRD/PHB rules about tripping. Zevox Well, I stand corrected. Erithmu, my apologies. Thanks Zevox.
TheMagister 04-22-06, 06:31 PM	Tripping a Mounted Opponent: You may make a trip attack against a mounted opponent. The defender may make a Ride check in place of his Dexterity or Strength check. If you succeed, you pull the rider from his mount. ...and that's why you trip the HORSE, and get a free (possible) 1d6 falling damage on the rider. :confused: TM
barrel_master 04-22-06, 06:37 PM	...and that's why you trip the HORSE, and get a free (possible) 1d6 falling damage on the rider. :confused: TM I think horses get bonuses for each individual leg so it may not be worth while.
TheMagister 04-22-06, 06:59 PM	I think horses get bonuses for each individual leg so it may not be worth while. Well, not exactly, but they do get a bonus for being 4-footed (hooved?). Heavy Warhorse trip defense mod: +4 (str) +4 (large) + 4 (unusually stable) = +12. Johnny the Tripper's trip offense mod: +4 (str) + 4 (half-giant) + 4 (imp. trip) = +12. So a specialized tripper is even-steven with a heavy warhorse. Now, that doesn't include what people usually do to increase their chances around here, such as the expansion power (addl. +4 size) or bull's strength/animal affinity (addl. +2 str mod). Also, a lot of the time a horse is charging when it comes close enough to trip, and if I were pitlording, I'd assign the horse a -2 penalty for trying to make a balance-related Str check while charging (or I might take the "unusually stable" bonus away entirely!). Edit: Nah. The -2 circumstance penalty is just right. Either way, a specialized tripper stands at least a 50/50 chance of tripping the horse, and probably a much better chance in most other circumstances. I don't think it's a BAD idea... TM
MitzaVolchenko 04-22-06, 08:45 PM	In place of the impossible MQ, Sissay will be facing a Medium floating, shadowy figure. Toss me tactics no later than Sunday evening, please. @Usurpator Response to tactical concerns for Sliver sent via PM.
TheMagister 04-22-06, 09:55 PM	Kind've a reminder/suggestion for those new to Drac's map program: When you're typing out the fight, it is much appreciated by almost everyone involved (but especially those with slower connections/computers) if you please enclose the individual maps in sblocks. That way, the computer won't have to load 344 different maps every time it opens a "Battles" page. It makes things much faster. {"The More You Know" music plays} =) TM
MindWandererB 04-22-06, 10:02 PM	Kind've a reminder/suggestion for those new to Drac's map program: When you're typing out the fight, it is much appreciated by almost everyone involved (but especially those with slower connections/computers) if you please enclose the individual maps in sblocks. That way, the computer won't have to load 344 different maps every time it opens a "Battles" page.Why do they have to be in individual sblocks? As long as they're all in one big sblock, they won't load unless you look at that fight.
TheMagister 04-22-06, 10:57 PM	Why do they have to be in individual sblocks? As long as they're all in one big sblock, they won't load unless you look at that fight. Well, maybe it's just me. When I open a fight's sblock, I get all the characters (letters, numbers, etc.). I'll read down about 3 paragraphs and then the maps will load (all at once, or just a few at a time), spacing each paragraph out by several inches, and causing me to lose my place. 1/2 the time, I don't even LOOK at the maps unless there is a movement-related questions (charging, running, flying turn, etc.). I (perhaps mistakenly) figured that I wasn't the only one bothered by this, and so made my post (which was labelled as a suggestion). You don't HAVE to do it. =) TM
Argaud 04-22-06, 11:08 PM	Some rounds of the Sappho vs. Sunstroke battle are posted here. As always, if you can see any mistake or if you think I am forgetting some step of your tactics, I'd appreciate if I am told as soon as possible. Easier to fix that way :-)
MindWandererB 04-22-06, 11:09 PM	I (perhaps mistakenly) figured that I wasn't the only one bothered by this, and so made my post (which was labelled as a suggestion). You don't HAVE to do it.Not a problem. I think most of us use a template of some kind for fights, usually a close variant of Dracazar's, so it's easy enough to add sblocks into the template around where the map goes. There, you'll never have that problem from me again. I personally only have the problem you describe when someone forgets to sblock their images entirely, but maybe I don't notice it because I don't use dial-up. Having stuck with dial-up stubbornly for many years, I sympathize with those who still do.
MindWandererB 04-22-06, 11:22 PM	Some rounds of the Sappho vs. Sunstroke battle are posted here. As always, if you can see any mistake or if you think I am forgetting some step of your tactics, I'd appreciate if I am told as soon as possible. Easier to fix that way :-) (MindWandererB, bad idea - you are sniping with a guy that is a horrible archer against a ranger with a wand of clw!)I deeply apologize for that. The name "Sappho the Barbarian" threw me off, and I didn't notice the wand or her ability to use it. Fortunately, circumstances are such that this will have to go to melee at some point, and that will make the fight end in a hurry. You have my permission to err in favor of that interpretation of my tactics. Wish I hadn't gone for Levitate, it's just slowing me down. And perhaps you didn't notice that both Barbarian fast movement and Longstrider apply only to your land speed, and not to alternate modes of movement, such as climb. Her speed is therefore only 20. Also, should it run that far, please note that Sappho's slippers are subject to the 1/3 rule, and thus she only gets 3.33 minutes (34 rounds) of spider climb, while Sunstroke gets 30 minutes (300 rounds) of Levitate.
NiQil 04-22-06, 11:46 PM	Also, should it run that far, please note that Sappho's slippers are subject to the 1/3 rule, and thus she only gets 3.33 minutes (34 rounds) of spider climb, while Sunstroke gets 30 minutes (300 rounds) of Levitate. I am not familiar with this portion of the 1/3 rule....the 1/3 only governs things that have multiple uses per day. If the slippers can only be used once per day, the user still gets the full 10 minutes of use. If the slippers grant the ability to use them three times a day, then the 1/3 rule would kick in and only one use would be allowed. But the duration of that use would still be 10 minutes. Edit: Here is the relevant excerpt from the Rules thread: Items and abilities that can be used a given number of times a day can be used 1/3 times that number, rounded up. For example, a Barbarian with 1 use of his Rage ability per day could use that ability once in every Arena fight. A higher-level Barbarian with 3 uses of his Rage ability daily can still use it only once per fight. A Barbarian with 4 uses of his ability, however, can use it twice every fight. Similarly, an Elan fighter with 2 power points can only use one of them in any given fight to fuel his Resistance or Resilience abilities. This also applies to magic items; for instance, a metamagic rod can only be used once every fight. If a magic item can be used more often than a number of times per day (for example, if it can be used twice an hour), then the Arena places no special restriction on it; that item could be used twice in the Arena, as normal (or even more times, in the highly unlikely case of the fight lasting more than an hour). Likewise, a paladin's Lay on Hand ability is not subject to the 1/3 restriction and can be used normally. Emphasis mine. The last paragraph is where the slippers would fall.....thus they are not restricted in any way.
MindWandererB 04-22-06, 11:53 PM	I am not familiar with this portion of the 1/3 rule....the 1/3 only governs things that have multiple uses per day. If the slippers can only be used once per day, the user still gets the full 10 minutes of use. If the slippers grant the ability to use them three times a day, then the 1/3 rule would kick in and only one use would be allowed. But the duration of that use would still be 10 minutes.Hm, you seem to be correct. That's kind of strange, though--the logic should limit any kind of per-day items to 1/3 if your daily alotment, but that isn't what the rules say, they mention only #uses/day abilities and items.
lonewolf 04-23-06, 06:37 AM	Hm, you seem to be correct. That's kind of strange, though--the logic should limit any kind of per-day items to 1/3 if your daily alotment, but that isn't what the rules say, they mention only #uses/day abilities and items. Are you aware that what you suggesting would also mean that for example a babarians rage would also only last 1/3 of the time?
Argaud 04-23-06, 06:40 AM	And perhaps you didn't notice that both Barbarian fast movement and Longstrider apply only to your land speed, and not to alternate modes of movement, such as climb. Her speed is therefore only 20. You are completely right with the movement. Dumb mistake on my part. Although at the end I suspect all that it would mean is that Sappho wouldn't have used Longstrider, and probably Sunstroke would have had time to use Compression (and might be able to shot another arrow or two before Sappho smarts-up and forces melee). If you think it matters enough I will re-do the fight.
SauroGrenom 04-23-06, 12:56 PM	Famine vs Gorgul is up.
Turin 04-23-06, 01:18 PM	Daisy vs Tueor is finished. Sorry there's no fun narration... I'm a little short of time this week.
Argaud 04-23-06, 01:26 PM	Famine vs Gorgul is up. Ah well, pretty much what I expected. Although there are a couple mistakes (fortunately both are at the very end and fixage should be very easy). There was no attempt to nail Famine with Stinking Clouds. Gor and his fellow Dretch should have done this as soon Famine came within range, as for the tactics. (Quote: “Use Stinking cloud the first round”). The Stinking Cloud is a long shot against a dwarf, but one of the few chances Gorgul had to defeat Famine. Gor didn’t use the longspear at the start of the melee. In round 120 Gor should have attacked with the spear instead of just moving. Unlikely to have made much of a difference, but who knows. Arguad, Hiding during the ranged battle is of no use to you. You want him to shoot all his arrows. If you are hiding he’ll just wait till he has a target to attack. Actually the goal wasn’t hidding! Although Gor –should- have attempted to snipe with his first arrow as for the tactics. (And then hide, to try to draw Famine closer). Tactics: “Since Famine has 116 arrows to Gorgul’s 40, Gorgul will shot an arrow only once every 3 rounds. The rounds he doesn’t fire arrows he will use total defense. This way he won’t be forced by the referees to leave cover and try to catch Famine (which he can’t do) in the open.” The goal was just force Famine to use all the arrows while hitting only by 20s. It worked, although Famine was incredibly lucky with the critics and Gor had pretty bad luck not hitting him even once! Much apologies about the endless archery duel, but I saw no chance to close to melee if Famine wanted to keep distance, all I could hope was to survive the 116 arrows :( Get yourself some healing, and clean up your character sheet. There are lots of things in there that need to be fixed. For example you get a Cha bonus and it applies to your stinking cloud ability DC. Er... what mistakes do you see in my write-up? The DCs for the spell-like abilities are correct and take into consideration Gorgul’s charisma. I know about the hp and will fix it as soon as possible. I’d like to be pointed to other mistakes if you see them. (Also, I will purchase a couple potions of CLW in the case another archery duel against an opponent without cold iron happens). All in all I am somewhat bothered. In the first battle Gor had a lot of luck with his rolls and managed to win. In this rerun exactly the opposite happened. And I saw little reason for a rerun, to say the truth (StoneTree didn’t saw the need either). If you compare both battles, they are almost identical. The only difference are the dice rolls. Very good for Gorgul in the first fight, pretty good for Famine in this one. Who decides when a fight needs to be rerun, anyway?
NiQil 04-23-06, 01:55 PM	Ah well, pretty much what I expected. Although there are a couple mistakes (fortunately both are at the very end and fixage should be very easy). There was no attempt to nail Famine with Stinking Clouds. Gor and his fellow Dretch should have done this as soon Famine came within range, as for the tactics. (Quote: “Use Stinking cloud the first round”). The Stinking Cloud is a long shot against a dwarf, but one of the few chances Gorgul had to defeat Famine. Gor didn’t use the longspear at the start of the melee. In round 120 Gor should have attacked with the spear instead of just moving. Unlikely to have made much of a difference, but who knows. Actually the goal wasn’t hidding! Although Gor –should- have attempted to snipe with his first arrow as for the tactics. (And then hide, to try to draw Famine closer). Tactics: “Since Famine has 116 arrows to Gorgul’s 40, Gorgul will shot an arrow only once every 3 rounds. The rounds he doesn’t fire arrows he will use total defense. This way he won’t be forced by the referees to leave cover and try to catch Famine (which he can’t do) in the open.” The goal was just force Famine to use all the arrows while hitting only by 20s. It worked, although Famine was incredibly lucky with the critics and Gor had pretty bad luck not hitting him even once! Much apologies about the endless archery duel, but I saw no chance to close to melee if Famine wanted to keep distance, all I could hope was to survive the 116 arrows :( Er... what mistakes do you see in my write-up? The DCs for the spell-like abilities are correct and take into consideration Gorgul’s charisma. I know about the hp and will fix it as soon as possible. I’d like to be pointed to other mistakes if you see them. (Also, I will purchase a couple potions of CLW in the case another archery duel against an opponent without cold iron happens). All in all I am somewhat bothered. In the first battle Gor had a lot of luck with his rolls and managed to win. In this rerun exactly the opposite happened. And I saw little reason for a rerun, to say the truth (StoneTree didn’t saw the need either). If you compare both battles, they are almost identical. The only difference are the dice rolls. Very good for Gorgul in the first fight, pretty good for Famine in this one. Who decides when a fight needs to be rerun, anyway? The difference between the first fight and the second is that the first fight was not set up so that you could verify any of the rolls. Some of them, yes...but not all of them. Either they needed to be linked (which is still technically not allowed, but acceptable to me), or the modifiers used should have been typed out round by round along with the rolls. Nor was the fight laid out in a format that meets CoCo standards. I asked Cat to take a look at the first fight for these reasons, and he agreed with me and granted my request that it should be rerun properly. @Sauro: My thanks for a grueling run. Had I done my math a little better, I would have had different tactics entirely. I completely overlooked AC bonuses from cover and total defense that caused Famine to need a 20 to even touch Gorgul from range. Had I remembered those, this would have been a melee duel, because my chances of hitting and doing damage are better there. I submitted the archery tactic thinking that there was little chance that I would get hurt in an archery duel and mistakenly thinking there was a decent chance at a win from afar.
Argaud 04-23-06, 02:17 PM	The difference between the first fight and the second is that the first fight was not set up so that you could verify any of the rolls. Some of them, yes...but not all of them. Have you checked the rolls this time? I have tried and it is pretty hard. Invisible Castle seems to open two or three rolls for wach request. At least that is what I think has happened. I can't make heads or tails of the dice rolls in the link :(
NiQil 04-23-06, 02:34 PM	Have you checked the rolls this time? I have tried and it is pretty hard. Invisible Castle seems to open two or three rolls for wach request. At least that is what I think has happened. I can't make heads or tails of the dice rolls in the link :( For the links I opened, I was having no problems... I looked them over...during the ranged war, the links show rolls for 30 attacks at a time (a pretty easy thing for Sauro to do, since all he had to do was look for 20's from Famine). I didn't check every link there, but enough to feel confident that it was done correctly, mechanics-wise. Tactically, there are the errors you have already mentioned that should probably be corrected...as you said, fortunately they are at the end of the match.
MitzaVolchenko 04-23-06, 02:57 PM	Captain Sissay's fight versus an Allip is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9010248&postcount=562)
Ariel23 04-23-06, 04:24 PM	I'm scheduled to run this fight and was going to run it today : Huginn Muninn (Azarias) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8692553) vs. Jam Master Jay (Greezer) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8767249) : Ariel23 At the very least this fight needs to be held over. At worst...well, I will leave that up to an Elder or Cat, if he comes back on Monday. Jay is using a Howler: This Howler is not listed in pre-buffs (he has 3 allies) but is listed in the title line as a free activity (Forgery to bring it in) which I will assume is fair enough notice to the opponent about which ally is being used. The Howler was obtained from an invalid quest (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=613128) (as per Caterane) At one point, Greezer mistakenly posts as HuBBaBuBBa in the thread. At a certain point, this quest ceases to be run by King Uther and is run by Anaconda. I will assume that was covered in some previous FotW somewhere. That aside, it is well documented that Anaconda = HuBBaBuBBa. Whether or not Greezer = HuBBaBuBBa = Anaconda, I will not speculate, defering that to an Elder's attention. However, I will speculate that this MQ is clearly not worth the 1's and 0's it is stored on. This is not the case of an "error" where someone's AC is off by +/-2 points. A 3rd level character fighting a Howler or not fighting that Howler is a completely different fight. [I][None of this has anything to do with King Uther, I hope he will understand that.] The best case scenario is I waste my time running a fight that gets nullified/held over. To further complicate things (which is totally needed here), I haven't received tactics from his opponent (Azarias) who also has no default tactics or previous fights. Which is fine, I have already written default tactics for him for this fight. The issue is, despite whatever else is going on, I don't think it would be fair to give a default victory to someone in abstentia. Also, Azarias has not edited Huginn Munnin since 28 March. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's very odd that it was edited to be ready for Apr 19 three weeks ago. Maybe he's on vacation and thought he'd be back for this date? Allow me to take a momentary tangent. :rant: This Howler is an excellent example of holes in the ally system. I realize skill use was involved, but what skill/power/spell/item ability should Huginn Munnin have taken to counter this ability? Most in-arena/game effects have a counter somewhere. The only thing I can think of is an invisible alpha strike on the Rogue, but you would have to find him, and that costs most (but not all) characters 300 gp, a sketchy proposition for a fight likely to be a loss. I can think of very few ECL 3 PC's that could beat a a 5 HD howler; fewer still that could beat a 3rd level Rogue and a 5 HD howler. Unless the awards are increased by 300% for the other party, this is beyond ridiculous, IMO. If Huginn Muninn loses, what has Azarias learned about his build? Not to fight a CR 3 and a CR 5 simultaneously? If Jam Master Jay wins, what has Greezer learned about building a lvl 3 Rogue? An ECL 3 +3 vs an ECL 3 is EL 5 vs EL 3. That's a 67% advantage. An ECL 6 + 6 vs an ECL 6 vs is an EL 8 vs an EL 6...a 33% advantage. Not quite as bad. But according to WotC, both of these fights would be in the "Overpowering" category...something that should occur for around 5% of all encounters and should involve the PC's fleeing.
Ariel23 04-23-06, 04:55 PM	I am still missing tactics for: Evaine Dreamseeker (Ariel23) vs. Manzarf (Abyssal Stalker) : Lonewolf Since I absolutely HAVE to run at least one of those tomorrow, I will use default tactics for Evaine and have Dameon surrender(no default tactics) tomorrow if I dont get tactics by then. Originally my fight was posted as Evaine vs. Unknown Monster (Holdover). I did say that fight was finished, but didn't ask to be re-paired. It's okay that I got repaired, that was nice of Caterane, but I don't see that posted anywhere in the FotW. This is the first I've heard of it. There were several posts related to new pairings, but I don't see that one. But I may just be blind, I'm doing like 4 things at once right now and have about 12 tabs open. In part, I took 2 fights because I knew I would have to write tactics for Evaine this week as hers are always so complicated. (My fault, not any PLs) @lonewolf I will send you a set of very quick tactics to supplement her default tactics. I won't complain about any improvisation, I promise. But I really never saw that she was paired.
Pittbull 04-23-06, 05:02 PM	@Ariel23: Anaconda is not Greezer, but Greezer has got many different accounts, this issue has been resolved in the tavern. Greezer got full amanesty. Regarding the quest for the howler, I'm not sure, but I think, it should be redone. Perhaps, Anaconda or Greezer can clear the misunderstanding.
Ariel23 04-23-06, 05:10 PM	Deflect Arrows and Use Mount for Cover. Why did Wotc twice use the term "Awareness" and the phrase "aware of the attack and not flatfooted?" That is not an accident. "Not flatfooted" = almost any state your character will ever be in, except in Round 1 if you lose initiative. Surprise is not an option in the arena...you are always aware of your opponent in the one and only sense WotC defines the term "awareness." "Awareness" is not a term of art, but it clearly has some meaning to the writers. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm is all we have on the subject. I think if you read this section, many of you will change your minds. Surprise When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you’re surprised. Determining Awareness Sometimes all the combatants on a side are aware of their opponents, sometimes none are, and sometimes only some of them are. Sometimes a few combatants on each side are aware and the other combatants on each side are unaware. Determining awareness may call for Listen checks, Spot checks, or other checks. The Surprise Round If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. Any combatants aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs. Unaware Combatants Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
SauroGrenom 04-23-06, 06:05 PM	There was no attempt to nail Famine with Stinking Clouds. Gor and his fellow Dretch should have done this as soon Famine came within range, as for the tactics. (Quote: “Use Stinking cloud the first round”). The Stinking Cloud is a long shot against a dwarf, but one of the few chances Gorgul had to defeat Famine. Actually your tactics say to: "set the spear to receive a charge as he advances". Then it also says: " Use Stinking cloud the first round..." So which is it? Do you want to set the spear for a charge (readied action) or do you want to use a spell like ability? If you use the readied action, it is wasted, because he doesn't need to charge you. He can just walk up to you and hit you. Gor didn’t use the longspear at the start of the melee. In round 120 Gor should have attacked with the spear instead of just moving. Unlikely to have made much of a difference, but who knows. Alright. I'll put that in. I thought the three natural attacks was a better way to go since it improved your chances of being able to sunder in the round. You would have 3 attempts to sunder and 3 damage rolls to destroy the wand. However if you prever a single sunder attempt in the round instead of 3, so be it. Actually the goal wasn’t hidding! Although Gor –should- have attempted to snipe with his first arrow as for the tactics. (And then hide, to try to draw Famine closer). Famine would never come closer. He'd just circle around your position untill he had a vantage that he could hit you from at range. The goal was just force Famine to use all the arrows while hitting only by 20s. It worked, although Famine was incredibly lucky with the critics and Gor had pretty bad luck not hitting him even once! Famine's luck was actually very average. With ~120 tries you would expect a 20 on 6 or so attacks. That's what he got. Gor did have some bad luck cuz you could expect about 2 arrows to hit among 40 arows and you got none. Anyway that would have just complicated the issue. Famine would just stop shooting arrows for two rounds and heal himself with a wand. Er... what mistakes do you see in my write-up? You Cha stat has a 14+0 listed. That should be 14+2. Also you are small and it isn't on your sheet anywhere. Yes there are the size modifiers listed in several places, but you need to say at the top of the sheet that you are small size, it figures into sunder, grapple, overrun, disarm and hide checks.. Also your bow is listed in equipment, but not anywhere in the attacks section, so I had to figure out the attack modifiers and damage and all that. Also you realy should list what a full attack sequence looks like for your character while using a weapon in hand and while just performing attacks with claws and bites and some combination of those. All in all I am somewhat bothered. In the first battle Gor had a lot of luck with his rolls and managed to win. In this rerun exactly the opposite happened. And I saw little reason for a rerun, to say the truth (StoneTree didn’t saw the need either). If you compare both battles, they are almost identical. The only difference are the dice rolls. Very good for Gorgul in the first fight, pretty good for Famine in this one. Who decides when a fight needs to be rerun, anyway?Both Stone Tree and I ran the fighty by the tactics submitted, so it is natural that it went the same way both times. Apparently StoneTree's version didn't do a very consistent job of linking the rolls, having a clear setup and doing the required round/round summary at the end of each round. Pitlords made the decision to rerun the fight.
SauroGrenom 04-23-06, 06:31 PM	Famine vs Gorgul is edited.
MysticMonk2005 04-23-06, 06:43 PM	Daisy vs Tueor is finished. Sorry there's no fun narration... I'm a little short of time this week. Tueor should be getting two grapple checks. It has been clarified that monks CAN flurry grapple.
Turin 04-23-06, 09:05 PM	Tueor should be getting two grapple checks. It has been clarified that monks CAN flurry grapple.Really? It was my understanding that it had recently been clarified that monks can't. Someone owes my Ivangar a couple of extra grapple checks. If you can give me a link with proof, I'll see what I can do about making an edit... it might flip the fight for you.
Prisonlords 04-23-06, 09:14 PM	Really? It was my understanding that it had recently been clarified that monks can't. Someone owes my Ivangar a couple of extra grapple checks. If you can give me a link with proof, I'll see what I can do about making an edit... it might flip the fight for you. To clarify this....you are partially correct. The initial ruling in my time here was that monks may combine their flurry with grapple attempts. A couple of months ago, due to further clarification in the FAQ, this ruling was changed to reflect that monks may not grapple in combination with their flurry. However, last month, the FAQ made specific mention of this issue, and stated that monks are, in fact, allowed to combine flurrying and grappling. This is currently reflected in the Court Decisions as such: Q: How does grappling work in combination with a monk's Flurry of Blows? A: As per the 3.5 FAQ, a monk may perform any attack or special attack in a Flurry of Blows as long as a special monk weapon that is normally allowed to be used in a flurry is used. Since unarmed strikes are allowed in a flurry, you can make grapple checks using each attack in the Flurry of Blows attack routine. This is the only exception to the ruling that regulates the amount of grapple checks you can make in a round based upon your base attack bonus. This is the current and most recent ruling. Hope that helps.
Turin 04-23-06, 09:36 PM	To clarify this....you are partially correct. The initial ruling in my time here was that monks may combine their flurry with grapple attempts. A couple of months ago, due to further clarification in the FAQ, this ruling was changed to reflect that monks may not grapple in combination with their flurry. However, last month, the FAQ made specific mention of this issue, and stated that monks are, in fact, allowed to combine flurrying and grappling. This is currently reflected in the Court Decisions as such:Oy vey! Okay, well, I'll work on an edit and try to get it up within the next 24hr. So if DSugui and MysticMonk2005 can hold off on editing their characters for just a bit, I'll fix it!
Argaud 04-23-06, 09:47 PM	Sunstroke vs. Sappho has finished and it is posted HERE I changed the tenth round to correct the speed mistake, but left the rest untouched. Check out for mistakes, please.
MindWandererB 04-23-06, 10:03 PM	Sunstroke vs. Sappho has finished and it is posted HERE I changed the tenth round to correct the speed mistake, but left the rest untouched. Check out for mistakes, please.And today's lesson is: stick to what you're good at. Could have saved myself some money on that one had I stuck to the basics. One minor mistake: Sunstroke gets a -2 penalty to grapple checks when flurrying. As near as I can tell, that would only cause one additional check to fail, so changing that won't make any difference. And better late than never: Are you aware that what you suggesting would also mean that for example a babarians rage would also only last 1/3 of the time?No, because rage can't be divided up into smaller increments. If you use Slippers of Spider Climb for one round, you can shut it off and save the other 999 for later. When you rage, you use the whole thing up no matter what.
DSugui 04-23-06, 10:20 PM	Daisy vs Tueor is finished. Sorry there's no fun narration... I'm a little short of time this week. I have some comments: - The first Entagle should be cast from memory, in this case Tueor should have failed his first Ref save vs Enatngle (11 vs DC 14) - When the first Produce Flame ends, Daisy should have recalled it with the pearl and recast. - In melee, Daisy should have cast Shillelah in the club. - It seems you forgot Bull's Strength bonus on Athena's grapple checks and Athena's and Daisy's attacks and damages... If you're gonna edit, please take these in consideration as well. Thanks
Zevox 04-23-06, 11:41 PM	Pardon me if I seem to be jumping the gun on this one, but I just noticed that StoneTree hasn't been online since the day before pairings were made according to his profile. Considering this (and the fact that I know he was trying to get reduced to pitlording one fight per week but was still assigned two this week), would there be anyone willing to take his matches (or at least one of them in case he returns)? The two hes been assigned are: [ECL 7] Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Sola (Erithmu) : StoneTree Archdevil Asran (Zevox) vs. Uilo (Dracazar) : StoneTree Zevox
MitzaVolchenko 04-24-06, 05:34 AM	Telveran vs. Nell is up. Set up is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9005970&postcount=559) Fight is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9005981&postcount=560)
Vathelokai 04-24-06, 07:02 AM	Pardon me if I seem to be jumping the gun on this one, but I just noticed that StoneTree hasn't been online since the day before pairings were made according to his profile. Considering this (and the fact that I know he was trying to get reduced to pitlording one fight per week but was still assigned two this week), would there be anyone willing to take his matches (or at least one of them in case he returns)? The two hes been assigned are: [ECL 7] Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Sola (Erithmu) : StoneTree Archdevil Asran (Zevox) vs. Uilo (Dracazar) : StoneTree Zevox I can take gaston vs.sola. Don't have the time to run a hoarde fight (sorry uilo).
Turin 04-24-06, 08:43 AM	- The first Entagle should be cast from memory, in this case Tueor should have failed his first Ref save vs Enatngle (11 vs DC 14) That's going to be a trick to fix without re-doing the whole fight. I'll take a look at it. - When the first Produce Flame ends, Daisy should have recalled it with the pearl and recast. - In melee, Daisy should have cast Shillelah in the club.By the point where Daisy has run out of produce flame, Tueor has already based her and Athena. Taking a 5' step to do either means losing one round of attacks with Athena, but I'll have you cast the shillelah as per your tactics.- It seems you forgot Bull's Strength bonus on Athena's grapple checks and Athena's and Daisy's attacks and damages...Oops, looks like it... I'll fix this too. It doesn't affect any of the rounds as previously run, however. Edit: okay, the fight has been edited. Partially due to some bad dice rolls on Tueor's part for those edited-in grapple checks, there's no change in the outcome, except for an extra charge from Daisy's wand of cure light wounds. I didn't go back all the way to the entangle spell, considering that this could only give Daisy extra rounds of produce flame attacks on Tueor and she won anyway. However, I've changed the fight results so that Daisy doesn't use the spell from her scroll in order to compensate you for the expendible cost. I hope there's no problem with that from either gladiator.
Erithmu 04-24-06, 09:42 AM	I can take gaston vs.sola. Don't have the time to run a hoarde fight (sorry uilo). Tactics have been forwarded
waywreth 04-24-06, 09:49 AM	I can take gaston vs.sola. Don't have the time to run a hoarde fight (sorry uilo). Tactics sent. Thanks Vathelokai.
DSugui 04-24-06, 10:07 AM	Edit: okay, the fight has been edited. Partially due to some bad dice rolls on Tueor's part for those edited-in grapple checks, there's no change in the outcome, except for an extra charge from Daisy's wand of cure light wounds. I didn't go back all the way to the entangle spell, considering that this could only give Daisy extra rounds of produce flame attacks on Tueor and she won anyway. However, I've changed the fight results so that Daisy doesn't use the spell from her scroll in order to compensate you for the expendible cost. I hope there's no problem with that from either gladiator. The fight is Ok by me. Just one thing: Daisy used a scroll of Bull's Strength that is not listed in the summary. Thanks for the run.
MitzaVolchenko 04-24-06, 01:59 PM	@ MindwandererB If you don't post tactics or verbal response to your potential opponent, I will run it out to the best of my ability. @ Ariel and Sindorin I am working on your fight, but I may not get it done until after work tonight. @My team fighters. I will post the tactics and sheets before I leave for work. If anyone wants to pick that fight up, be my guest. Otherwise, I will work on it when I get done with the others after work. I did not expect the ECL9 to take as long as it did, and I still need to edit Tel's DR into it, though it is unlikely to affect the outcome (thanks for giving me slack on that Sunwolf-no idea how I missed it after making a note for myself about it).
Ariel23 04-24-06, 02:58 PM	One minor mistake: Sunstroke gets a -2 penalty to grapple checks when flurrying. As near as I can tell, that would only cause one additional check to fail, so changing that won't make any difference.. A grapple check is not an attack roll, so there is no Flurry penalty imposed on that check. [Which, btw, I'm opposed to. I'm just saying...] Of course flurry penalties do apply to the touch attack to-hit rolls, because we know it's so hard to hit a touch AC.
Biota 04-24-06, 03:29 PM	And today's lesson is: stick to what you're good at. Could have saved myself some money on that one had I stuck to the basics. One minor mistake: Sunstroke gets a -2 penalty to grapple checks when flurrying. As near as I can tell, that would only cause one additional check to fail, so changing that won't make any difference. And better late than never: No, because rage can't be divided up into smaller increments. If you use Slippers of Spider Climb for one round, you can shut it off and save the other 999 for later. When you rage, you use the whole thing up no matter what. Exactly, stick to what you are good at. Sappho is not good at grappling, at least not as good as Sunstroke, hence my tactics saying that I wanted to stay 100' away from Sunstroke and not enter melee unless somehow forced. Sappho probably should have made Sunstroke chase her around on the ground once she realized that he was going to snipe at her with the levitation trick. Again maybe I didn't have a chance, but closing to melee wasn't going to end well with against the monk-flurry-grapple. At least you had to use some items for the win. Biota
MindWandererB 04-24-06, 03:49 PM	Sappho probably should have made Sunstroke chase her around on the ground once she realized that he was going to snipe at her with the levitation trick. Again maybe I didn't have a chance, but closing to melee wasn't going to end well with against the monk-flurry-grapple.The problem wasn't with levitation--I could have (should have) skipped that altogether. The problem was the fact that you can't rapid shot and move in the same round, so as long as I kept forcing you to move at least 10 feet, Deflect Arrows made me immune to archery. No matter how fast you move, I can still force you to move at least 10 feet no matter what. That was why melee was your only option.
Argaud 04-24-06, 04:15 PM	A grapple check is not an attack roll, so there is no Flurry penalty imposed on that check. [Which, btw, I'm opposed to. I'm just saying...] Of course flurry penalties do apply to the touch attack to-hit rolls, because we know it's so hard to hit a touch AC. I think Ariel is right. MindWanderer. This, of course, means monks are the best grapplers until level 6 (when pure warrior-types get their second attack). But this is probably as intended. Then again, Sunstroke is a super-grappler, and basically invulnerable to archery on top of that! I hope not to have Korinel paired with him before 6th level :-)
TheMagister 04-24-06, 06:44 PM	Hey ya'll. I wanna take Sdentch on the Gawane Bandits (EL 7) quest since Featylec had such a hard time with it. Anyone interested in Questlording her should shoot me a PM. All I know about the quest is that it involves bandits, and bandits have treasure. Finders Keepers, baby. Sdentch would be in this as a bounty hunter, not out of any feel-good, "I'll save you!" attitude. Unless it involves rescuing defenseless wittle aminals. You know...like Dragonnes. =) Thanks ahead of time! TM
TheMagister 04-24-06, 07:03 PM	I've kinda got a running bet with myself on TWH's fight this week. I think he'll be dead before round 12. Sdentch...well, lets just say her will save ain't that good, and she's up against a killer will-save wizard. I give her about 5 rounds. Anyone think any different? =) (I'm antsy. I expected at least one of my fights to post by now...) =) TM
MysticMonk2005 04-24-06, 07:06 PM	Edit: okay, the fight has been edited. Partially due to some bad dice rolls on Tueor's part for those edited-in grapple checks, there's no change in the outcome, except for an extra charge from Daisy's wand of cure light wounds. I didn't go back all the way to the entangle spell, considering that this could only give Daisy extra rounds of produce flame attacks on Tueor and she won anyway. However, I've changed the fight results so that Daisy doesn't use the spell from her scroll in order to compensate you for the expendible cost. I hope there's no problem with that from either gladiator. Thanks for running the fight and the edit. @anyone: Could someone take Kracknol Vs Auburn? Please. I just had eye surgery and don't think I'm up to running two fights. (though i should be able to get my other fight done, it looks simple enough.) Sorry aout this. This battle is a rematch from last week. I hope Kracknol wins again. He begins mounted on Raknital, and front and center in his area with his flail in hand. The first plann is to get into melee as quickly as possible and hit him with the flail discharging all the damage boosing effects for 1d10+15d6+5 damage. So if Kracknol has initiative and can spot his opponent, use the fly speed to skim along the ground and charge attack Auburn right away while he is flatfooted. We can move 160' in the first round on a charge, and Kracknol can use his ride to Spur his mount and get an extra 20' for a charge if needed. Hit Auburn with everything and hopefully end the battle right away. In the more likely event that Kracknol cannot charge Auburn right away, and Auburn uses greater invisibility, Kracknol needs to evade for about 9 rounds or so till the greater invisibility wears off. Kracknol will use his psi-like ability to go invisible and fly on his mount to evade untill Auburn is visible. Use the fly speed to gain altitude and get as far away as possible and break LOS. Whenever possible move to a position that Auburn cannot get LOS on with only a move action. We hope to make him chase us and use more than a move action to get LOS each round. That way he cannot cast at Kracknol untill his invisibility wears off. Since Kracknol will have greater movement speed, this should be possible. If Auburn summons some creatures, use a protection from alignment potion, or the hide from animals potion depending on what is summoned. Use withdraw actions if needed to avoid summoned creatures while we are trying to wait out Auburn's invisibility. Once Auburn's invisibility is done, get him in melee and charge if possible. Hit him with the flail, or if his AC is too high grapple him and use Armor spikes.Then the griffon can full attack Auburn while in the grapple. Remember: Raknital has a rake attack if he charges Raknital has scent for detecting Auburn if invisible. Raknital's average manouverability is a limitation, but not as much as some may think it is. Please look at this post for instructions about how to turn 180 degrees if needed. Kracknol will use Ride for cover whenever he is being attacked. If I'm stuck in melee and getting beat by summoned creatures but cannot targe Auburn, use the stone of force screen. I hope that will be enough and that the battle is over quickly. If something comes up use any expendibles needed. Have Fun Sauro Was kind of banking on a monster fight or a bout with Lief, so I am woefully unprepared for this... Seems I forgot to add my familiar to the prebuffs. If you like, it can be left at home. Otherwise it stays on my shoulder until needed. Start at the back center of my box holding scroll 6 (invis and see invis). Cast invis from scroll and run along the wall, away from opponent. Cast fly from memory and get the heck away from the griffon. If I see the griffon and no Kraknol then cast see invis from scroll and keep running. Then (after getting some distance) cast summon monster 4. -If Kraknol is on the ground then summon fiendish dire weasels (1d3 of them, from the summon monster 3 list); tell them to attach onto Kraknol. Cast dispel magic on him from memory to kill invis and prot. evil protections. If a weasel successfully attaches to Kraknol, cast grease from memory on the weasel, so it is next to impossible to get off. -If Krak is riding the griffon, then celestial hippogriffs; tell them to kill the griffon. If they kill it, then use my flight to stay away from Krak and rain death. If they fail, then I'll just have to try to evade the griffon. If there is still a decent chance I will be struck (i.e. griffon alive) then cast mirror image from scroll before becoming visible. After that stuff, cast spectral hand from scroll. Use remaining spell levels on magic missiles and shocking grasps at Kraknol. If I run out of those, there are magic missiles on scroll and truestriked xbow bolts to fall back on. If I have to spend a round or two between any one of these action to evade my opponents, then do it. If I am having trouble loosing them, use spell like ability ghost sound to create the sound of me casting/moving away. If I need some cover or ac toward the end (and it looks like I have a chance), feel free to use any scrolls (shields, blur, blacklight, etc.). Note on weasels: when they use the attach ability, they are not actually grappling. The victem has to grapple then pin the attached weasel to get it off. Or kill it. Best of luck -Vath and thanks in advance.
TheMagister 04-24-06, 07:32 PM	Thanks for running the fight and the edit. @anyone: Could someone take Kracknol Vs Auburn? Please. I just had eye surgery and don't think I'm up to running two fights. (though i should be able to get my other fight done, it looks simple enough.) Sorry aout this. This battle is a rematch from last week. I hope Kracknol wins again. He begins mounted on Raknital, and front and center in his area with his flail in hand. The first plann is to get into melee as quickly as possible and hit him with the flail discharging all the damage boosing effects for 1d10+15d6+5 damage. So if Kracknol has initiative and can spot his opponent, use the fly speed to skim along the ground and charge attack Auburn right away while he is flatfooted. We can move 160' in the first round on a charge, and Kracknol can use his ride to Spur his mount and get an extra 20' for a charge if needed. Hit Auburn with everything and hopefully end the battle right away. In the more likely event that Kracknol cannot charge Auburn right away, and Auburn uses greater invisibility, Kracknol needs to evade for about 9 rounds or so till the greater invisibility wears off. Kracknol will use his psi-like ability to go invisible and fly on his mount to evade untill Auburn is visible. Use the fly speed to gain altitude and get as far away as possible and break LOS. Whenever possible move to a position that Auburn cannot get LOS on with only a move action. We hope to make him chase us and use more than a move action to get LOS each round. That way he cannot cast at Kracknol untill his invisibility wears off. Since Kracknol will have greater movement speed, this should be possible. If Auburn summons some creatures, use a protection from alignment potion, or the hide from animals potion depending on what is summoned. Use withdraw actions if needed to avoid summoned creatures while we are trying to wait out Auburn's invisibility. Once Auburn's invisibility is done, get him in melee and charge if possible. Hit him with the flail, or if his AC is too high grapple him and use Armor spikes.Then the griffon can full attack Auburn while in the grapple. Remember: Raknital has a rake attack if he charges Raknital has scent for detecting Auburn if invisible. Raknital's average manouverability is a limitation, but not as much as some may think it is. Please look at this post for instructions about how to turn 180 degrees if needed. Kracknol will use Ride for cover whenever he is being attacked. If I'm stuck in melee and getting beat by summoned creatures but cannot targe Auburn, use the stone of force screen. I hope that will be enough and that the battle is over quickly. If something comes up use any expendibles needed. Have Fun Sauro Was kind of banking on a monster fight or a bout with Lief, so I am woefully unprepared for this... Seems I forgot to add my familiar to the prebuffs. If you like, it can be left at home. Otherwise it stays on my shoulder until needed. Start at the back center of my box holding scroll 6 (invis and see invis). Cast invis from scroll and run along the wall, away from opponent. Cast fly from memory and get the heck away from the griffon. If I see the griffon and no Kraknol then cast see invis from scroll and keep running. Then (after getting some distance) cast summon monster 4. -If Kraknol is on the ground then summon fiendish dire weasels (1d3 of them, from the summon monster 3 list); tell them to attach onto Kraknol. Cast dispel magic on him from memory to kill invis and prot. evil protections. If a weasel successfully attaches to Kraknol, cast grease from memory on the weasel, so it is next to impossible to get off. -If Krak is riding the griffon, then celestial hippogriffs; tell them to kill the griffon. If they kill it, then use my flight to stay away from Krak and rain death. If they fail, then I'll just have to try to evade the griffon. If there is still a decent chance I will be struck (i.e. griffon alive) then cast mirror image from scroll before becoming visible. After that stuff, cast spectral hand from scroll. Use remaining spell levels on magic missiles and shocking grasps at Kraknol. If I run out of those, there are magic missiles on scroll and truestriked xbow bolts to fall back on. If I have to spend a round or two between any one of these action to evade my opponents, then do it. If I am having trouble loosing them, use spell like ability ghost sound to create the sound of me casting/moving away. If I need some cover or ac toward the end (and it looks like I have a chance), feel free to use any scrolls (shields, blur, blacklight, etc.). Note on weasels: when they use the attach ability, they are not actually grappling. The victem has to grapple then pin the attached weasel to get it off. Or kill it. Best of luck -Vath and thanks in advance. I'll take it. I'll PM pitlords and the players. TM
MindWandererB 04-24-06, 08:10 PM	I think Ariel is right. MindWanderer. This, of course, means monks are the best grapplers until level 6 (when pure warrior-types get their second attack). But this is probably as intended.I don't know about that. I think that whole "like an attack" thing just causes problems. I'm fairly sure that they intended for some penalties to apply to grapple checks, but not others, and it's really silly that you could flurry-grapple at no penalty whatsoever. I will agree that a literal interpretation of the RAW would go that way, but I think the RAI is different. And even after 6th level, the fighter's second grapple check is at -5 (this is explicit in the rules), giving them a poor chance against a flurry-pin-damage routine (they have to break the pin on their first attempt, then win a grapple check at -5 to escape, or else attack with a light weapon at -9). They do have a +6 BAB at that point (Sunstroke, having LA and being multiclassed, gets only +3)... but by then, Sunstroke will be able to Expand himself as well (grapple check +19). Not pretty. Random thought: can you imagine the CoCo being run under 1st or 2nd edition rules? Madness.
Erithmu 04-24-06, 08:20 PM	The reason that monks get the different bonuses for flurry is that flurry uses a different BaB scheme and since grapple checks are based on Bab + str + size they have the negative penality to their grapple checks for flurrying (hence the -2 early on, goes to -1 when they hit 5th and normal Bab at 9th)
TheMagister 04-24-06, 08:22 PM	Random thought: can you imagine the CoCo being run under 1st or 2nd edition rules? Madness. {Heard in the WAR Guildhall} {manly voice} "I'm the Grandmaster of Flowers!" {in whiney protest, still manly voice} "No, I'm the Grandmaster of Flowers!!" {slap!} {SLAP!} {All} "Gay monk-fight!" {All cheer} TM
Zevox 04-24-06, 11:02 PM	So, since its monday night and theres still no sign of StoneTree, any chance anyone can take his remaining fight? Archdevil Asran vs Uilo. Wish I could say it would be an easy one, but as Vath pointed out it is a hoard fight (Druid & friends vs Half-Fiend and 2 Furies [Dire Bats]). 'Twould be greatly appreciated if anyone could pick it up in time to get it done for pairings! Zevox
Ariel23 04-25-06, 12:31 AM	@Pitlords Again, I'm not going to run Hugin Munnin vs Jam Master Jay [ECL 3]. A post above explains this issue and rather serious error. I did not PM Pitlords per Caterane's request not to PM, so it bears repeating. @Barrel_master (Alana) @Abyssal Stalker (Undertaker) I am in the midst of running your fight. It will be done Tuesday. I am currently through 5 rounds. It's pretty good but I'm sure you both know you have low HP so this fight could turn in an instant. I am on GMT -6, so 3 pm is the fight deadline for me. Since my boss is away, I don't foresee any problems with that. Both tactics allow for me to improvise, and both have some major holes in them (these holes came up in the fight, of course). Generally speaking, 2 PCs + 2 allies will take at least 50% longer than a fight with 2 PC's. Coupled with the tactical issues and two primary casters, this makes the fight much more time-consuming than a (now) 5 round ECL 3 fight might appear at first glance. My guess is it will be over by Round 8. If Undertaker rolls well, he will probably win. If he rolls average, he will probably lose. :evillaugh Ariel23 [If you are dying to see the fight, you can peek at the rolls.]
TheMagister 04-25-06, 01:42 AM	Good GRIEF, this fight is taking forever. I've devoted nothing but time to this fight, and I'm only on round 7. I don't think I'll be able to finish it tonight, but I'll keep working on it. Sorry, guys. TM
MitzaVolchenko 04-25-06, 03:51 AM	@All I just got home from work. I am exhausted and disappointed to see that Sliver's fight is not up and Abyssal has not edited Zwei's per the elder ruling on Deflect Arrows. I am in no frame of mind to run anything. I am going to take my nap early and see if I can get myself motivated enough to finish everything before I go to work tomorrow when I wake up. I am sorry to be slacking, but the uber long ECL9 and the almost done except for the nine million round ECL4 archery duel have eaten darned near every spare moment I have had this weekend. Topping that with the lack of positive response for any of my personal characters is just making for a burned out Mitza :( *sighs* Just a bad day...I'll get over it. If anyone wants to pick up my team fight, the tactics and character sheets are posted in the Battles thread. I would have posted them before work, but I spent half an hour waiting on a reply to open in the Battles thread. If it does't get picked up by someone else, I'll try to get it done when I wake up.
MysticMonk2005 04-25-06, 04:03 AM	I'm realy realy sorry. I know its my fault for putting them off for so long, but I can't finish Micah Vs Ten with my eyes still bothering me some and school tomarow. Blame SquareEnix for making Kingdom Hearts 2 for the procrastination... Tactics for Micah (DarthVegan) vs Ten (Soullord) Hello MysticMonk2005, thanks for pitlording this fight. Begin fight in front part of starting box, mounted with lance in one hand and shield in other. Start moving around the outside of arena, and try to spot (or listen for) opponent. Once LOS is gained, attempt a charge if at all possible. If not, stow lance, equip longsword, and close for melee. Of course, if an opportunity arises that a charging lane opens to Ten, take it; equipping the lance on the move. If Ten tries to evade melee and use ranged attacks, do not chase him. Find cover if possible and return fire. Notes Ten nor I receive +1 bonus to attack for being mounted, if we both are. Use mount for cover against ranged attacks. Try to negate attacks on Fleabiscuit by using Mounted Combat feat. If Fleabiscuit is reduced to less than 10 hp, dismount, move horse away from combat. Close Micah in for melee (longsword) on foot via running. If he cannot get close enough for melee, switch to longbow. If Fleabiscuit is felled, drop lance and equip longsword. Close for melee. If Micah is reduced to less than 12 hp, Withdraw to unthreatened square if possible, and quaff CLW potion. Try to avoid AoO. Thanks, DarthVegan Hi there thanks for taking and running the fight. StrategyTake the horse out and then kill my foe at rangedcombat. Start at (0,-24/1,-25) mounted on charger with bow andpotion of shield of faith in hand. round 1.drink potion of shield of faith if foe is in sight move to take cover left or right.if not ready action to shoot horse upon spotting. round 2rapid shot horse until he's no longer a threat whenthis happens shoot Micah.double or single move away as appropiate (try to getsome cover) round 3 on If Micah dismounts the horse & the horse is notattacking focus attacks on Micah. Otherwise continue attacking horse until it's dead. notes:Always use horse for cover.Never end a turn allowing a charge (get something between, move away, run! etc. (use spur mountsparingly))use ride to negate hits on horseRage if in melee combat.Then can full attack(rapid shot) no matter how muchthehorse moves. contingencies:horse dies tap tatoo of skate to have speed advantage move to central obstacles and hide snipe or attack as appropiateif brought below 10 hp and if foe is not mounted runaway with horse and heal with wand(get some cover).if it turns into a ranged battle get some coverI'm based and opponents horse is dead quick dismountto flank opponent with geatsword and sneak attack himwith greatsword, horse will full attack mica as well. Multiple messages are selected. Report & Delete | Allow sender Scanning & uploading More Information | Cancel Show Cc & Bcc To: Cc: Bcc: Subject: Save attachments in the Sent messages folder Easily edit and attach photos for free! Click Install for a free upgrade of your ability to work with photos and send them in e-mail messages. If a security warning message appears, click Yes. After the tool is installed (the download will take approximately 3 to 4 minutes with a 56-Kbps modem), you will be able to preview photos on your computer and attach one or many photos at once. You can also rotate and/or resize your photos before attaching them to your message. If you do not want to install this control you can still attach files (including photos) to messages--click Cancel below, and then use the Attach button and choose File. However, you won't be able to preview or edit your photos, or attach more than one file at a time. Locate the folder that contains the images you want to attach to the message, and then use the checkboxes to select images before clicking the Attach Files button. Note: the Attach Files button will only attach images from the currently selected folder. 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Simply locate the down arrow on your junk e-mail folder and click to delete everything in it. Clear out your deleted items folder the same way. Pick your colors. Make the Mail experience look the way you want by selecting your own color scheme. Just click the colors link in the upper right hand corner. Find your contacts with the greatest of ease. Start typing a name in the “Find in contacts” field, and a list of possible names immediately pops up. Then, just choose a name from this list. Tell us what you think Learn more about Windows Live™ Mail beta It’s the future of MSN® Messenger: Sign up to try Windows Live™ Messenger beta Return to folder Again sorry about this.
TheMagister 04-25-06, 04:06 AM	Sorry to hear about your bad day, Mitza. Are you a bartender, or something? What keeps you at work so late? Anyhow. @SauroGrenom and Vathelokai - Auburn vs. Kracknol TWO, The Rematch (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9024097&postcount=567) is up. Thanks be to Almighty God who spun the dice to help me finish this tonight. Without You, I would be mightily sad and without sleep at home in the morning busting out the last few rounds. It's a good fight. @Dracazar - your map tool isn't putting CharE and/or CharF on the map. It's a bummer. G'night (morning) all! TM
TheMagister 04-25-06, 04:07 AM	I'm realy realy sorry. I know its my fault for putting them off for so long, but I can't finish Micah Vs Ten with my eyes still bothering me some and school tomarow. Blame SquareEnix for making Kingdom Hearts 2 for the procrastination... Tactics for Micah (DarthVegan) vs Ten (Soullord) Hello MysticMonk2005, thanks for pitlording this fight. Begin fight in front part of starting box, mounted with lance in one hand and shield in other. Start moving around the outside of arena, and try to spot (or listen for) opponent. Once LOS is gained, attempt a charge if at all possible. If not, stow lance, equip longsword, and close for melee. Of course, if an opportunity arises that a charging lane opens to Ten, take it; equipping the lance on the move. If Ten tries to evade melee and use ranged attacks, do not chase him. Find cover if possible and return fire. Notes Ten nor I receive +1 bonus to attack for being mounted, if we both are. Use mount for cover against ranged attacks. Try to negate attacks on Fleabiscuit by using Mounted Combat feat. If Fleabiscuit is reduced to less than 10 hp, dismount, move horse away from combat. Close Micah in for melee (longsword) on foot via running. If he cannot get close enough for melee, switch to longbow. If Fleabiscuit is felled, drop lance and equip longsword. Close for melee. If Micah is reduced to less than 12 hp, Withdraw to unthreatened square if possible, and quaff CLW potion. Try to avoid AoO. Thanks, DarthVegan Hi there thanks for taking and running the fight. StrategyTake the horse out and then kill my foe at rangedcombat. Start at (0,-24/1,-25) mounted on charger with bow andpotion of shield of faith in hand. round 1.drink potion of shield of faith if foe is in sight move to take cover left or right.if not ready action to shoot horse upon spotting. round 2rapid shot horse until he's no longer a threat whenthis happens shoot Micah.double or single move away as appropiate (try to getsome cover) round 3 on If Micah dismounts the horse & the horse is notattacking focus attacks on Micah. Otherwise continue attacking horse until it's dead. notes:Always use horse for cover.Never end a turn allowing a charge (get something between, move away, run! etc. (use spur mountsparingly))use ride to negate hits on horseRage if in melee combat.Then can full attack(rapid shot) no matter how muchthehorse moves. contingencies:horse dies tap tatoo of skate to have speed advantage move to central obstacles and hide snipe or attack as appropiateif brought below 10 hp and if foe is not mounted runaway with horse and heal with wand(get some cover).if it turns into a ranged battle get some coverI'm based and opponents horse is dead quick dismountto flank opponent with geatsword and sneak attack himwith greatsword, horse will full attack mica as well. Multiple messages are selected. Report & Delete | Allow sender Scanning & uploading More Information | Cancel Show Cc & Bcc To: Cc: Bcc: Subject: Save attachments in the Sent messages folder Easily edit and attach photos for free! Click Install for a free upgrade of your ability to work with photos and send them in e-mail messages. If a security warning message appears, click Yes. After the tool is installed (the download will take approximately 3 to 4 minutes with a 56-Kbps modem), you will be able to preview photos on your computer and attach one or many photos at once. You can also rotate and/or resize your photos before attaching them to your message. If you do not want to install this control you can still attach files (including photos) to messages--click Cancel below, and then use the Attach button and choose File. However, you won't be able to preview or edit your photos, or attach more than one file at a time. Locate the folder that contains the images you want to attach to the message, and then use the checkboxes to select images before clicking the Attach Files button. Note: the Attach Files button will only attach images from the currently selected folder. Windows Live Mail resizes large images so that they are more easily viewed, sent, and stored online. Your images will be reduced in size so they are at most 600 pixels wide or tall. To send full-size pictures, click Cancel. When you compose a new message, click Attach Files Please wait while your message is being scanned and sent. No contactsbeta77kcacx197984cateraneCharles Chocoelcamino18Ericex-soldiercloudgiogi99Jameskesthokirothemul siferkumiko_chan_loki_lojhingLordDragoni sRebornmitza_vMommyrddraal99peaceblackwa ltz3rilenkylerilenschoulayerSethDragonMa gissj9gotenwhateveribecamewilliam_smith_ 69Multiple contacts are selected.You want it, you got it We’re getting all kinds of great ideas from you about what we can do to make Windows Live™ Mail an even better experience, and have been adding them as fast as we can. Be sure to thank yourself for these new features Delete your junk mail more easily. Simply locate the down arrow on your junk e-mail folder and click to delete everything in it. Clear out your deleted items folder the same way. Pick your colors. Make the Mail experience look the way you want by selecting your own color scheme. Just click the colors link in the upper right hand corner. Find your contacts with the greatest of ease. Start typing a name in the “Find in contacts” field, and a list of possible names immediately pops up. Then, just choose a name from this list. Tell us what you think Learn more about Windows Live™ Mail beta It’s the future of MSN® Messenger: Sign up to try Windows Live™ Messenger beta Return to folder Again sorry about this. Dude, that's cold... TM
Abyssal Stalker 04-25-06, 08:08 AM	@All I just got home from work. I am exhausted and disappointed to see that Sliver's fight is not up and Abyssal has not edited Zwei's per the elder ruling on Deflect Arrows. I am in no frame of mind to run anything. I am going to take my nap early and see if I can get myself motivated enough to finish everything before I go to work tomorrow when I wake up. I am sorry to be slacking, but the uber long ECL9 and the almost done except for the nine million round ECL4 archery duel have eaten darned near every spare moment I have had this weekend. Topping that with the lack of positive response for any of my personal characters is just making for a burned out Mitza :( *sighs* Just a bad day...I'll get over it. If anyone wants to pick up my team fight, the tactics and character sheets are posted in the Battles thread. I would have posted them before work, but I spent half an hour waiting on a reply to open in the Battles thread. If it does't get picked up by someone else, I'll try to get it done when I wake up. I'm sorry I haven't yet seen the ruling on the Deflect Arrows -issue. Could someone point this out to me, as it seems that I have missed something??
Macbrea 04-25-06, 08:16 AM	Look immediately after your post in the elders thread. LLMadCow answered you.
Vathelokai 04-25-06, 09:12 AM	Gaston vs. Sola is up. I was suprised at the outcome. The rolls came out average, but only because of lots of high and low rolls.
Ariel23 04-25-06, 09:25 AM	Look immediately after your post in the elders thread. LLMadCow answered you.Well, yes, but "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" is also an answer. This has to be one of the most confusing answers of all time. I have a character with Deflect Arrows and if I referred my PLs to this response, I think it will still leave a lot of PL's thinking :confused: Does the monk need a Listen check and a Spot check to be "aware" of a visible missile? What is the DC? He implies that the Spot check is automatic for the missile, but the Listen check is only for the attacker not the attack itself...and is not automatic. Does the Listen check need to be pinpoint or will a success of 0 suffice? If the attacker is not moving, what is the DC? Can he use Move Silently to mask the sound of his bow/crossbow? How does that work? All he says definitively is that if you have a monk in Silence and Darkness and use True Strike while Invisible, you will hit him. I haven't read Abyssal's fight but I doubt that's what happened there. What means being aware of an attack?was really the most important question there. I guess what I am saying is (and this is no complaint against LLMadCow who is trying to answer a difficult question) what is the rule regarding Deflect Arrows and "awareness"? Such as: "In order to be 'aware of an attack' for the purposes of the Deflect Arrows feat or Riding trick, defender must ___; If attacker ___ then defender must ___." Or something to that effect...
Erithmu 04-25-06, 09:33 AM	Gaston vs. Sola is up. I was suprised at the outcome. The rolls came out average, but only because of lots of high and low rolls. Bummer, I almost made it through the alpha strike. Should have recalled the invisibility and gone that route.
Macbrea 04-25-06, 09:45 AM	My guess is because a character can see a flea at 300ft standing in the open in CoCo. If you look in the direction of that flea and have a hint that it is there you would be able to tell it is there. Now, given that bit of information you don't have any clue where the person is because you failed the spot check. But because you made the listen check by even 0. You know that the person is within a 20ft radius area and the direction. Since, invisibility only last to 10ft from the person that fired the bow. After the 10ft of travel time the arrow becomes visible. And the character having made the listen check by at least 0. Is aware that an enemy is in the direction that the noise indicated. They should be able to defect arrows that are not invisible coming from that direction. This of course is my opinion,
MitzaVolchenko 04-25-06, 09:46 AM	Well, yes, but "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" is also an answer. This has to be one of the most confusing answers of all time. I have a character with Deflect Arrows and if I referred my PLs to this response, I think it will still leave a lot of PL's thinking :confused: Does the monk need a Listen check and a Spot check to be "aware" of a visible missile? What is the DC? He implies that the Spot check is automatic for the missile, but the Listen check is only for the attacker not the attack itself...and is not automatic. Does the Listen check need to be pinpoint or will a success of 0 suffice? If the attacker is not moving, what is the DC? Can he use Move Silently to mask the sound of his bow/crossbow? How does that work? All he says definitively is that if you have a monk in Silence and Darkness and use True Strike while Invisible, you will hit him. I haven't read Abyssal's fight but I doubt that's what happened there. was really the most important question there. I guess what I am saying is (and this is no complaint against LLMadCow who is trying to answer a difficult question) what is the rule regarding Deflect Arrows and "awareness"? Such as: "In order to be 'aware of an attack' for the purposes of the Deflect Arrows feat or Riding trick, defender must ___; If attacker ___ then defender must ___." Or something to that effect... I am treating it as any check that gives any idea that the attacker is nearby (in line of effect) constitutes awareness. For instance in the fight I am still bogged down in with Seaendinthas hiding vs. Riana the Monk, Se only gets a chance at damage if Riana fails both Spot and Listen completely. While Se has an extreme hide skill his MS is only +6 vs. Ri's +9 Listen, so Ri keeps hearing him as he moves out to get into LOS to try to snipe. Honestly lasking any further clarification from WotC, look at the sections under conditions for Invisibility which indicate that a Listen allows the victim to know someone is nearby. In the arena that translates to a threat is nearby and an awareness of impending attack (no facings in 3.5 so direction is unimportant). Macbrea and I went over every possible applicable rule and came to the same conclusion as Madcow. Any successful sensory check gives the victim enough awareness to deflect the incoming missile.
Sindorin 04-25-06, 09:50 AM	Heh, I didn't even think about being heard instead of seen. I guess that is one thing to fix on that character.
waywreth 04-25-06, 10:00 AM	Gaston vs. Sola is up. I was suprised at the outcome. The rolls came out average, but only because of lots of high and low rolls. Better lucky than good!
lonewolf 04-25-06, 11:07 AM	Dameon Leonne vs. Enoch the Prophet is up. Another exhausting one.
SoulLord 04-25-06, 11:21 AM	I'm realy realy sorry. I know its my fault for putting them off for so long, but I can't finish Micah Vs Ten with my eyes still bothering me some and school tomarow. Blame SquareEnix for making Kingdom Hearts 2 for the procrastination... Tactics for Micah (DarthVegan) vs Ten (Soullord) Hello MysticMonk2005, thanks for pitlording this fight. Begin fight in front part of starting box, mounted with lance in one hand and shield in other. Start moving around the outside of arena, and try to spot (or listen for) opponent. Once LOS is gained, attempt a charge if at all possible. If not, stow lance, equip longsword, and close for melee. Of course, if an opportunity arises that a charging lane opens to Ten, take it; equipping the lance on the move. If Ten tries to evade melee and use ranged attacks, do not chase him. Find cover if possible and return fire. Notes Ten nor I receive +1 bonus to attack for being mounted, if we both are. Use mount for cover against ranged attacks. Try to negate attacks on Fleabiscuit by using Mounted Combat feat. If Fleabiscuit is reduced to less than 10 hp, dismount, move horse away from combat. Close Micah in for melee (longsword) on foot via running. If he cannot get close enough for melee, switch to longbow. If Fleabiscuit is felled, drop lance and equip longsword. Close for melee. If Micah is reduced to less than 12 hp, Withdraw to unthreatened square if possible, and quaff CLW potion. Try to avoid AoO. Thanks, DarthVegan Hi there thanks for taking and running the fight. StrategyTake the horse out and then kill my foe at rangedcombat. Start at (0,-24/1,-25) mounted on charger with bow andpotion of shield of faith in hand. round 1.drink potion of shield of faith if foe is in sight move to take cover left or right.if not ready action to shoot horse upon spotting. round 2rapid shot horse until he's no longer a threat whenthis happens shoot Micah.double or single move away as appropiate (try to getsome cover) round 3 on If Micah dismounts the horse & the horse is notattacking focus attacks on Micah. Otherwise continue attacking horse until it's dead. notes:Always use horse for cover.Never end a turn allowing a charge (get something between, move away, run! etc. (use spur mountsparingly))use ride to negate hits on horseRage if in melee combat.Then can full attack(rapid shot) no matter how muchthehorse moves. contingencies:horse dies tap tatoo of skate to have speed advantage move to central obstacles and hide snipe or attack as appropiateif brought below 10 hp and if foe is not mounted runaway with horse and heal with wand(get some cover).if it turns into a ranged battle get some coverI'm based and opponents horse is dead quick dismountto flank opponent with geatsword and sneak attack himwith greatsword, horse will full attack mica as well. Multiple messages are selected. Report & Delete | Allow sender Scanning & uploading More Information | Cancel Show Cc & Bcc To: Cc: Bcc: Subject: Save attachments in the Sent messages folder Easily edit and attach photos for free! Click Install for a free upgrade of your ability to work with photos and send them in e-mail messages. If a security warning message appears, click Yes. After the tool is installed (the download will take approximately 3 to 4 minutes with a 56-Kbps modem), you will be able to preview photos on your computer and attach one or many photos at once. You can also rotate and/or resize your photos before attaching them to your message. If you do not want to install this control you can still attach files (including photos) to messages--click Cancel below, and then use the Attach button and choose File. However, you won't be able to preview or edit your photos, or attach more than one file at a time. Locate the folder that contains the images you want to attach to the message, and then use the checkboxes to select images before clicking the Attach Files button. Note: the Attach Files button will only attach images from the currently selected folder. Windows Live Mail resizes large images so that they are more easily viewed, sent, and stored online. Your images will be reduced in size so they are at most 600 pixels wide or tall. To send full-size pictures, click Cancel. When you compose a new message, click Attach Files Please wait while your message is being scanned and sent. No contactsbeta77kcacx197984cateraneCharles Chocoelcamino18Ericex-soldiercloudgiogi99Jameskesthokirothemul siferkumiko_chan_loki_lojhingLordDragoni sRebornmitza_vMommyrddraal99peaceblackwa ltz3rilenkylerilenschoulayerSethDragonMa gissj9gotenwhateveribecamewilliam_smith_ 69Multiple contacts are selected.You want it, you got it We’re getting all kinds of great ideas from you about what we can do to make Windows Live™ Mail an even better experience, and have been adding them as fast as we can. Be sure to thank yourself for these new features Delete your junk mail more easily. Simply locate the down arrow on your junk e-mail folder and click to delete everything in it. Clear out your deleted items folder the same way. Pick your colors. Make the Mail experience look the way you want by selecting your own color scheme. Just click the colors link in the upper right hand corner. Find your contacts with the greatest of ease. Start typing a name in the “Find in contacts” field, and a list of possible names immediately pops up. Then, just choose a name from this list. Tell us what you think Learn more about Windows Live™ Mail beta It’s the future of MSN® Messenger: Sign up to try Windows Live™ Messenger beta Return to folder Again sorry about this. It's ok I have friends who have taken eye surgery recently and know how troublesome it can be. so any takers for this fight?
MitzaVolchenko 04-25-06, 12:05 PM	Riana vs. Sećndithas is up here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9016149&postcount=565)
Abyssal Stalker 04-25-06, 12:16 PM	I am treating it as any check that gives any idea that the attacker is nearby (in line of effect) constitutes awareness. For instance in the fight I am still bogged down in with Seaendinthas hiding vs. Riana the Monk, Se only gets a chance at damage if Riana fails both Spot and Listen completely. While Se has an extreme hide skill his MS is only +6 vs. Ri's +9 Listen, so Ri keeps hearing him as he moves out to get into LOS to try to snipe. Honestly lasking any further clarification from WotC, look at the sections under conditions for Invisibility which indicate that a Listen allows the victim to know someone is nearby. In the arena that translates to a threat is nearby and an awareness of impending attack (no facings in 3.5 so direction is unimportant). Macbrea and I went over every possible applicable rule and came to the same conclusion as Madcow. Any successful sensory check gives the victim enough awareness to deflect the incoming missile.LL's answer truly left me thinking "What the h*** was the answer?" and he said that he'd return to the subject so I didn't want to haste with things. Now it seems that LL hasn't had the time to think the whole thing through, so I'll have to use my consideration. I've also checked the rules and found under the invisibility/listen/spot descriptions something about being aware of the invisible creature. So I'll just have to take my ruling back and allow the deflecting. This leaves pretty much on the table and makes me feel that Deflect Arrows is almost overpowered in the arena. I'll start editing the fight. The outcome will probably change since Hassan has almost no chance at all anymore.
MitzaVolchenko 04-25-06, 01:40 PM	@ Abyssal, thanks for the edit. @ My team fighters...I would be underway, but I have been staring at the Down for Maintenance error for the last two hours. I'll try to get it done, but no promises.
DSugui 04-25-06, 02:05 PM	Va'ria (Sindorin) => Sdentch (TheMagister) => Lissa (MysticMonk2005), the Ladies Fight, is up HERE and HERE I spent more time thinking in a way to make this fight fair than running it. If there are any complaints, I will try to address them and edit the fight.
Sindorin 04-25-06, 06:50 PM	Hehehe... One note - Va'ria gets 9% of her winnings as a tax to the EHTC (675 gp).
Turin 04-25-06, 07:59 PM	I am treating it as any check that gives any idea that the attacker is nearby (in line of effect) constitutes awareness.The SRD section on determining awareness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm) or PAge 137 in the PHB make it pretty clear that this is the correct interpretation, IMNSHO.
NiQil 04-25-06, 09:46 PM	Va'ria (Sindorin) => Sdentch (TheMagister) => Lissa (MysticMonk2005), the Ladies Fight, is up HERE and HERE I spent more time thinking in a way to make this fight fair than running it. If there are any complaints, I will try to address them and edit the fight. I don't see why Sdentch and Lissa cannot attack with the weapons they have. I would not allow expendable use, and I would not allow any tactical use.....but attacks should still be allowed to both parties. I'm not involved in this fight...but after reading it....I don't think the spell works quite to the level that Sindorin would like it to. The spell is very specific in what someone can and cannot do. Nowhere does it say that you cannot still attack someone. And nowhere does it say that attacking is not allowed. It even goes out of its way to say that you can still tell who your friends are and are able to defend them if necessary. This would imply to me that attacking is still very much possible. I would agree that tactics would very much go out the window, but attacking with a weapon should not. This spell would be horribly broken otherwise.
Sindorin 04-25-06, 09:55 PM	I see your point Niqil, which is exactly why I had such a long tactic set preparing for whatever would happen after they were hit with Feeblemind. I do think that the spell is broken even if DSugui decides that he should change it to give them more of an effort. Would they necessarily be proficient with the weapons? Also, since you agree that the tactics go out the window, what would be different about the feebleminded character than the player having not submitted tactics? There are pitlords here who will surrender a PC if they do not submit tactics... and I haven't seen anyone challenge their rulings on such matters. I only bring in these points because the spell needs to be looked at for its use in the CoCo. Perhaps we could take it up in the elder poll or the council or something. But it does need to be looked at (because Va'ria can cast it at DC 26).
lonewolf 04-25-06, 09:56 PM	Evaine vs Manzarf is up at last. It could have gone either way, the rolls decided.
NiQil 04-25-06, 10:39 PM	I see your point Niqil, which is exactly why I had such a long tactic set preparing for whatever would happen after they were hit with Feeblemind. I do think that the spell is broken even if DSugui decides that he should change it to give them more of an effort. Would they necessarily be proficient with the weapons? Since the spell does not limit proficiency in any way, yes, they would still be proficient with their weapons. The spell is very specific in what it affects. If it doesn't mention it, then it should not be affected. Also, since you agree that the tactics go out the window, what would be different about the feebleminded character than the player having not submitted tactics? There are pitlords here who will surrender a PC if they do not submit tactics... and I haven't seen anyone challenge their rulings on such matters. The difference here is between surrendering a character who has not submitted tactics at all, and surrendering a character who is unable to use the tactics they submitted due to a battle condition. This would be just like a character not healing because someone sundered his clw wand. A battle condition caused an alteration to someone's submitted tactics. In this case, a battle conditions caused the submitted tactics to not be able to be used at all. But I don't think that that should constitute an automatic surrender. Even an Int 1 animal or magical creature can attack something...an Int 1 PC should be no different. I only bring in these points because the spell needs to be looked at for its use in the CoCo. Perhaps we could take it up in the elder poll or the council or something. But it does need to be looked at (because Va'ria can cast it at DC 26). I agree....this spell should probably be examined for possible banning or nerfing in our environment.
DSugui 04-25-06, 11:14 PM	Since the spell does not limit proficiency in any way, yes, they would still be proficient with their weapons. The spell is very specific in what it affects. If it doesn't mention it, then it should not be affected. The difference here is between surrendering a character who has not submitted tactics at all, and surrendering a character who is unable to use the tactics they submitted due to a battle condition. This would be just like a character not healing because someone sundered his clw wand. A battle condition caused an alteration to someone's submitted tactics. In this case, a battle conditions caused the submitted tactics to not be able to be used at all. But I don't think that that should constitute an automatic surrender. Even an Int 1 animal or magical creature can attack something...an Int 1 PC should be no different. I agree....this spell should probably be examined for possible banning or nerfing in our environment. That's why I said it was hard to think a way to make the fight fair. The problem is: until what point a character with Int 1 and Cha 1 will understand he is in a fight? Most animals will run or avoid combat, unless they're cornered or hungry... In this case, they cannot even see the enemy to attack... If some of the players feels the fight was unfair and requests an edit, I will do it (if the boards don't go down again...), but I don't think things are going to change... Anyways, I don't know if the spell is broken or not, but when you have Will +4 on ECL 9, you'll have a lot of trouble against casters. Feeblemind or not.
TheMagister 04-25-06, 11:23 PM	Agreed, Dsugui. I only have one request, and that is that you use Sdentch's blindfight ability against Va'ria in the area of the blacklight. In my opinion, characters would keep on fighting (especially Sdentch, since her tactics for this one don't change whether she's Int 18 or 1). Oh. And if you keep it as is, then Sdentch surrendered after her opponent, and technically gets xp/gp awards for "beating" (read "outlasting") her target. It was a hunter match, right? TM
DSugui 04-25-06, 11:30 PM	Agreed, Dsugui. I only have one request, and that is that you use Sdentch's blindfight ability against Va'ria in the area of the blacklight. In my opinion, characters would keep on fighting (especially Sdentch, since her tactics for this one don't change whether she's Int 18 or 1). Oh. And if you keep it as is, then Sdentch surrendered after her opponent, and technically gets xp/gp awards for "beating" (read "outlasting") her target. It was a hunter match, right? TM Hmmm... missed the Blindfight, sorry. I think in Sdentch's case I can see I reason for her to fight: she's raged. I will edit the fight in the morning. And I think your right about the rewards. I aways get confused about rewards in FFA/Hunter matches...
MysticMonk2005 04-26-06, 12:01 AM	hrm next time i fight someone with blacklight, Im putting in a contingency to use daylight... Im fine with what ever you end up doing DSugui
Vathelokai 04-26-06, 04:25 AM	I only bring in these points because the spell [feeblemind] needs to be looked at for its use in the CoCo. Perhaps we could take it up in the elder poll or the council or something. But it does need to be looked at (because Va'ria can cast it at DC 26). Three more cheers for another nerfed spell! :pint:
MitzaVolchenko 04-26-06, 05:26 AM	Thanks to the extended board outage yesterday, I had to run the team fight with manual rolls at work witha printout of an arena imag for guidance, and a spiral notebook. I have only just gotten home, so it will be up when I wake up and can type without my head pounding, It is done, and the dice decided it as much as anything else.
KerlanRayne 04-26-06, 06:01 AM	The problem with awareness is that you have to be aware of the ATTACK. A listen check will make you aware of your opponent but not their attack. I think it would be hard to be ready for an attack that you can't watch them make. KerlanRayne
waywreth 04-26-06, 08:32 AM	White Hand (TheMagister) vs. Sliver (MitzaVolchenko) vs. Loquan (waywreth) : Turin [All vs All] Not to be a whiner, but this still hasn't solved my problem.I am taking this one of your hands Turin, PM'ing all concerned parties now. Hmm, I'm guessing this is going to be held over? I haven't seen Usurpator on, or it could've just been the boards being down (again).
Turin 04-26-06, 08:59 AM	I agree....this spell [feeblemind]should probably be examined for possible banning or nerfing in our environment.It needs explanation, perhaps, not banning or nerfing. Or do we want to start banning every effect in the game that allows a quick win? All death effects, perhaps? Stacking damage from multiple sources into an alpha strike? No, I didn't think so. Dealing with "save-or-screwed" is an important part of creating an optimized character in the game. I don't think we should go overboard here with the nerf-stick. @ wayreth: sorry that I had to hand that off... I've got a final this week. If Usurpator can't finish it I'll gladly volunteer to take it for the held-over week.
DSugui 04-26-06, 09:08 AM	Hmmm... missed the Blindfight, sorry. I think in Sdentch's case I can see I reason for her to fight: she's raged. I will edit the fight in the morning. And I think your right about the rewards. I aways get confused about rewards in FFA/Hunter matches... Sorry everyone, but I am with some problems at work here and won't be able to edit the fight the way I wanted... I edited the rewards, tough. Hope they're right now.
Ariel23 04-26-06, 11:00 AM	Undertaker v Alana (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8996317&postcount=556) is up, now with Special Feature! I have no idea how this went up, I tried to post it about 11 times before I finally got a message saying the boards were down. The message I received said they would be down for 19 hours! Obviously that wasn't the case. I was posting it about 1-2 hours before the deadline (yesterday), but the time shows it as posting 30 mins after. Oh well. I am out-of-town on dial-up so I may not be able to check the boards. I haven't even looked at my own fights.
Ariel23 04-26-06, 11:16 AM	@lonewolf Obviously Evaine won (I'm surprised, frankly) but I wondered about Manzarf's sunder in Round 10 of her longsword. I don't see a damage roll and IIRC the longsword has 15 HP. It would only last one more round, but still...this is the same as when I faced him like 12 fights ago; although there was no sundering then, I looked at it at the time. While Se has an extreme hide skill his MS is only +6 vs. Ri's +9 Listen, so Ri keeps hearing him as he moves out to get into LOS to try to snipe. I agree with your interpretation of the feat, I also think it is supported by other rules (indirectly). I'm not that familiar with sniping, but don't you become visible during the shot, you are only hiding before and after? I was not under the impression that it was like Greater Invisibility. That's a sniping issue, not a Deflect issue, and I'm not worried about Mitza's run of the fight at all. But it would be useful to know for future reference. I'm sorry there's hiding/sniping Mitza, I really assumed this would be 2 unbuffed gladiators walking towards each other and engaging in melee immediately, which shouldn't have taken more than 9 rounds. Unfortunately, there's not much I could have done in my tactics to compensate for a hiding opponent.
SoulLord 04-26-06, 11:26 AM	Three more cheers for another nerfed spell! :pint: That doesn't solve the problem just Ban Wizards :) [just being sarcastic]
Greezer 04-26-06, 11:34 AM	hello, my opponent hasnt sended tactics yet, did i win now? couse i need to configure my character, and my fight hasnt been done yet, Pitlord is ariel23, but isnt answering my Pm
SoulLord 04-26-06, 11:44 AM	Nope you have to wait until the fight is posted; If it's posted at all, if it's not then most likely the fight will be held over for the following week.
Abyssal Stalker 04-26-06, 11:45 AM	Undertaker v Alana (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8996317&postcount=556) is up, now with Special Feature! I have no idea how this went up, I tried to post it about 11 times before I finally got a message saying the boards were down. The message I received said they would be down for 19 hours! Obviously that wasn't the case. I was posting it about 1-2 hours before the deadline (yesterday), but the time shows it as posting 30 mins after. Oh well. I am out-of-town on dial-up so I may not be able to check the boards. I haven't even looked at my own fights.Thanks for the nice commentary! The Special Feature was really... Special? :mymy: I figured out that blindness won't work here, because the wolf would've come and eaten me and there's no use blinding a wolf with scent. Otherwise it would've been the way to go. I somehow didn't think too much of the entangle, since Alana didn't support a ranged weapon. And there was nothing I could do against it on the other hand. Thanks for running the fight, nice to see that at least one of my 3 gladiators was succesfull this week!
Abyssal Stalker 04-26-06, 01:04 PM	Evaine vs Manzarf is up at last. It could have gone either way, the rolls decided. I checked the fight through and noticed some mistakes that might change the outcome! Round 5: Second attack hits. Astral Construct AC should be 18-4(prone)=14 Round 6: AoO hits, check above Round 9: I think that Evaine needs to make a concentration check, since she is attacked that round and the atttack is successfull allthough doesn't deal damage to Evaine. There also isn't a damage roll referring to the sunder attempt. Round 10: Evaine can't attack that round, since completing a full-round action is a standard action Round 11: Manzarf's free attack after the trip should hit. Evaines AC should be 20-4(prone)=16 Round 12: What is the level of the Astral Construct? If it's 2nd-level, the AoO hits. Round 13: Manzarf's free attack after the trip should hit. Evaines AC should be 20-4(prone)=16 The mistakes in rounds 5-6 don't make a difference. Round 9 is important. This isn't clearly covered by the rule, but it seems to me that it would distract the manifester if her weapon suddenly explodes! It might make the manifesting fail. Roun 11 and 13 are very important, they might bring Evaine down! I'm not sure about round 12? Could you please check these, I'd hate to ask for a holdover.
MitzaVolchenko 04-26-06, 02:56 PM	Alright, I finally got the team fight to post. I am exhausted and have lost a ton of sleep hoping to catch the boards in a good mood.
Sindorin 04-26-06, 03:00 PM	That doesn't solve the problem just Ban Wizards :) [just being sarcastic] Well, the problem does not lie in nerfing Feeblemind or Wizards. The problem lies in how to handle a gladiator when they have been reduced to 1 INT and 1 CHA during a fight.
Pittbull 04-26-06, 03:13 PM	Alright, I finally got the team fight to post. I am exhausted and have lost a ton of sleep hoping to catch the boards in a good mood. Here is the link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9024150)! Sorry, but you've done a major mistake: Round 01 Kitty pulls a tiger from the bag and tosses it out 20' Khaz attempts to use scroll of fly (4)+1=5 (fail) Scroll mishap chance (17, no mishap) Kor taps tattoo of ThickSkin. Loddick use stone of vigor. When Kazzz fails the cl-check for the fly scroll, the scroll isn't used, he can retry next round. Therfor the whole fight can go a total different way, I'm sorry to say this. If all the others want to accept this run, I won't ask for a rerun. I wait for a quick response and won't edit the sheet.
Usurpator 04-26-06, 03:18 PM	My dear gladiators, my sincere apologies for not having the fight finished yet. I thought I had time on sunday, but something came up. Started on monday evening instead, now still busy, hoping to post it ASAP. Sorry for the delay.
MitzaVolchenko 04-26-06, 03:21 PM	@ Abyssal Stalker I read your 'edit' of the fight. I am not sure how you decided all of the sudden that Zwei heard the casting (when she failed it originally) and then changed the other listen check to a fail to insure that the arrow hit. I would appreciate the fight being edited and run on from the point at which the first arrow that hit, actually fails per the elder ruling. Hassan would then have been visible and the fight continues as it should. I also don't get why you changed her listen check to a spot when she has already determined that her foe is not in LOS. There are NO facing in 3.5. Her direction is immaterial. I don't know what you were doing with that edit, but I am feeling strongly that you didn't like the elder ruling that gave her awareness and decided to make the fight end how you wanted it to with a minimum of effort. I am requesting hold over or a re-run based on the rules.
MitzaVolchenko 04-26-06, 03:30 PM	Here is the link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9024150)! Sorry, but you've done a major mistake: When Kazzz fails the cl-check for the fly scroll, the scroll isn't used, he can retry next round. Therfor the whole fight can go a total different way, I'm sorry to say this. If all the others want to accept this run, I won't ask for a rerun. I wait for a quick response and won't edit the sheet. Toss me an SRD link on that one, please. I looked at te rules and decided that since it lists spell mishap it implies hte spell isused but not successful as intended. I could edit the fight, but looking at it again, he would still be vulnerable to what killed him (failed save vs. poison). With all the board outages, I am sorry that I didn't manage to get it up sooner for more time. I have to leave for work in three minutes, but I can check it before I actually get to working at work.
MindWandererB 04-26-06, 03:36 PM	Round 5: Second attack hits. Astral Construct AC should be 18-4(prone)=14 Round 6: AoO hits, check above Round 9: I think that Evaine needs to make a concentration check, since she is attacked that round and the atttack is successfull allthough doesn't deal damage to Evaine. There also isn't a damage roll referring to the sunder attempt. Round 10: Evaine can't attack that round, since completing a full-round action is a standard action Round 11: Manzarf's free attack after the trip should hit. Evaines AC should be 20-4(prone)=16 Round 12: What is the level of the Astral Construct? If it's 2nd-level, the AoO hits. Round 13: Manzarf's free attack after the trip should hit. Evaines AC should be 20-4(prone)=16 The mistakes in rounds 5-6 don't make a difference. Round 9 is important. This isn't clearly covered by the rule, but it seems to me that it would distract the manifester if her weapon suddenly explodes! It might make the manifesting fail. Roun 11 and 13 are very important, they might bring Evaine down! I'm not sure about round 12?Round 9: The rules are explicit; only damaging effects. Having your weapon broken (not exploding, just broken) is not that bad. Round 10: Evaine did not use the "complete full-round action" action. But spells with a casting time of 1 round don't come into effect until the beginning of your next action. That's what happened here, which is why she still gets her full complement of actions this round. I don't feel like looking up the ACs of Astral Contructs, but you seem to seem to be right about the attacks vs. prone victims. However, you would have to roll nearly max damage to take her out. Killing the constructs might make a tactical difference, bit with only 1 1/2 hours left, you might be stuck.
MindWandererB 04-26-06, 03:41 PM	Toss me an SRD link on that one, please. I looked at te rules and decided that since it lists spell mishap it implies hte spell isused but not successful as intended. I could edit the fight, but looking at it again, he would still be vulnerable to what killed him (failed save vs. poison). With all the board outages, I am sorry that I didn't manage to get it up sooner for more time. I have to leave for work in three minutes, but I can check it before I actually get to working at work.How about an FAQ entry? If you aren’t of the right level to read a scroll, you have to make a caster level check to actually use the scroll, right? If this fails, you have to make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap. What happens to the scroll if you fail both checks? Does the failure erase the scroll? What happens if you fail the caster level check, but make the Wisdom check? Is the writing on the scroll still there? If you do not succeed in activating a scroll spell, the spell is not used up. If you suffer a mishap when you fail to cast the spell, however, you activate the scroll after a fashion and the scroll is wasted. You likewise lose the spell on the scroll if you fail any Concentration check you might have to make while using the scroll. You also lose the spell from the scroll or if you fail any arcane spell failure roll you might have to make when using the scroll.
Pittbull 04-26-06, 03:42 PM	Toss me an SRD link on that one, please. I looked at te rules and decided that since it lists spell mishap it implies hte spell isused but not successful as intended. I could edit the fight, but looking at it again, he would still be vulnerable to what killed him (failed save vs. poison). With all the board outages, I am sorry that I didn't manage to get it up sooner for more time. I have to leave for work in three minutes, but I can check it before I actually get to working at work. The SRD says nothing about the scroll being used. It only says, you must check for a mishap, if it takes place the DM should decide what happens. If not mishap takes place nothing happens. I guess it was in the FAQ, that stated that the scrolls aren't used on a failed cl-check, but I cannot give you the link. We use this ruling for a very long time now and it has never been an issue. Maybe anyone else has the link? If Kazzz gets poisoned while flying Loddick is not able to deliver the coup de grace, since he need to be in a adjected square for this. EDIT: Thanks a lot, MindwandererB.
Argaud 04-26-06, 03:50 PM	Here is the link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9024150)! Sorry, but you've done a major mistake: When Kazzz fails the cl-check for the fly scroll, the scroll isn't used, he can retry next round. Therfor the whole fight can go a total different way, I'm sorry to say this. If all the others want to accept this run, I won't ask for a rerun. I wait for a quick response and won't edit the sheet. I got to agree with Pittbull, Khaz would have tried to cast the spell again, since the whole tactics revolved around both of them flying and helping each other to avoid sleep.
MitzaVolchenko 04-26-06, 04:00 PM	The SRD says nothing about the scroll being used. It only says, you must check for a mishap, if it takes place the DM should decide what happens. If not mishap takes place nothing happens. I guess it was in the FAQ, that stated that the scrolls aren't used on a failed cl-check, but I cannot give you the link. We use this ruling for a very long time now and it has never been an issue. Maybe anyone else has the link? If Kazzz gets poisoned while flying Loddick is not able to deliver the coup de grace, since he need to be in a adjected square for this. EDIT: Thanks a lot, MindwandererB. I looked everything over, and I have removed the scroll from the expended list (Macbrea agrees with you on what happens with the scroll, though I will still look through the FAQ when I have time). The result stands, and there is a further note in The Wrap Up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9024150&postcount=568).
SoulLord 04-26-06, 04:01 PM	Well, the problem does not lie in nerfing Feeblemind or Wizards. The problem lies in how to handle a gladiator when they have been reduced to 1 INT and 1 CHA during a fight. The way I see it. The gladiators have been reduced to animal inteligence but they have not been defeated yet. the wizard would still have to either 1) kill them 2) Make them surrender. As for what is a gladiator with 1 inteligence able to do. Unless the feat prevents it due to the lowered int and cha he can use his feats. when hurt he will either fight or flee unless cornered depending upon the tactics sent.
Erithmu 04-26-06, 04:17 PM	@Mitza: Thanks for running the fight, I have no arguements that require a rerun, just I didn't use a powerstone of vigor at all. Change if you have time, if not oh well. I'm not having Loddick fight this week since I don't have time to update him so all will be well.
Argaud 04-26-06, 04:26 PM	I looked everything over, and I have removed the scroll from the expended list (Macbrea agrees with you on what happens with the scroll, though I will still look through the FAQ when I have time). The result stands, and there is a further note in The Wrap Up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9024150&postcount=568). Hmm, I beg to disagree. With Khaz flying at 60'/round Kitty would never have caught up with him before he got to Korinel. The strategy relies in Khaz not botching the wisdom roll if the reading fails (which is very difficult) not in the cl-check. Together they would have been able to prevent the sleep effect, which is a vital part of the strategy that can't be ignored. It is indeed a pity the boards failed yesterday, but that is no reason not to correct the mistakes in a fight and make gladiators lose the match because of them.
Pittbull 04-26-06, 04:28 PM	I looked everything over, and I have removed the scroll from the expended list (Macbrea agrees with you on what happens with the scroll, though I will still look through the FAQ when I have time). The result stands, and there is a further note in The Wrap Up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9024150&postcount=568). First of all I want to admit that I accept the loss. I realize that redoing the fight is pretty anoying for you, regarding the huge workload you had with all your fights and the problems of the boards. Thanks for running the fight. But let me state, that you didn't follow our tactics at all. You should have retried to cast the spell and then fly to Korinel. Since it took some rounds when Kitty was able to attack Kazzz, it should have been possible that Kazzz reaches Korinel before he sleeps and then the tactic of delivering a coup de grace would not work, because Korinel can wake him before the full-round action takes place. After all it is a dissapointing loss, but I'll accept it. :weep: EDIT: I just read Argaud's post (two minutes before mine). If he wants to have a rerun, we should do it, his character shouldn't be penalized, if he doesn't want to.
lonewolf 04-26-06, 04:35 PM	I checked the fight through and noticed some mistakes that might change the outcome! Round 5: Second attack hits. Astral Construct AC should be 18-4(prone)=14 Round 6: AoO hits, check above Round 9: I think that Evaine needs to make a concentration check, since she is attacked that round and the atttack is successfull allthough doesn't deal damage to Evaine. There also isn't a damage roll referring to the sunder attempt. Round 10: Evaine can't attack that round, since completing a full-round action is a standard action Round 11: Manzarf's free attack after the trip should hit. Evaines AC should be 20-4(prone)=16 Round 12: What is the level of the Astral Construct? If it's 2nd-level, the AoO hits. Round 13: Manzarf's free attack after the trip should hit. Evaines AC should be 20-4(prone)=16 The mistakes in rounds 5-6 don't make a difference. Round 9 is important. This isn't clearly covered by the rule, but it seems to me that it would distract the manifester if her weapon suddenly explodes! It might make the manifesting fail. Roun 11 and 13 are very important, they might bring Evaine down! I'm not sure about round 12? Could you please check these, I'd hate to ask for a holdover. Sorry, I somehow believed that prone only give -2 to AC which explains a lot of mistakes. Round 9: even if she has to do a concentration check(I believe she doesnt), she could expend her psionic focus doing so and thus autosucceed the check. Round 11 hits, but round 13 misses because I had the modifiers wrong while rolling. Manzarfs rage has ended there already.
MitzaVolchenko 04-26-06, 04:41 PM	Hmm, I beg to disagree. With Khaz flying at 60'/round Kitty would never have caught up with him before he got to Korinel. The strategy relies in Khaz not botching the wisdom roll if the reading fails (which is very difficult) not in the cl-check. Together they would have been able to prevent the sleep effect, which is a vital part of the strategy that can't be ignored. It is indeed a pity the boards failed yesterday, but that is no reason not to correct the mistakes in a fight and make gladiators lose the match because of them. Kitty has the same movement rate as Khazz flying and is on an intercept course. I agree that the misread on the scroll is an issue (though I still have no rule located to be certain that is the case for scrolls). Assuming that Khazz manages to cast it in the following round, however, Kitty still makes it to him before he reaches Korinel. I actually made another error in Korinel's favor...he got far more movement than he should have. Again, I am sorry about the lateness, but I cannot control board outages.
Argaud 04-26-06, 04:46 PM	Kitty has the same movement rate as Khazz flying and is on an intercept course. I agree that the misread on the scroll is an issue (though I still have no rule located to be certain that is the case for scrolls). Assuming that Khazz manages to cast it in the following round, however, Kitty still makes it to him before he reaches Korinel. I actually made another error in Korinel's favor...he got far more movement than he should have. Again, I am sorry about the lateness, but I cannot control board outages. Kitty can't catch Khaz because Khaz can double move, and Kitty can't charge him unless he moves by the south of the central pilars (which he won't, since both enemies are there). By moving through the north, Kitty can't intercept him (too far) and by moving through the pilars interception is irrelevant, Kitty could double move and base (risking a deadly grapple, I doubt he would!) but never charge and attack.
waywreth 04-26-06, 04:48 PM	My dear gladiators, my sincere apologies for not having the fight finished yet. I thought I had time on sunday, but something came up. Started on monday evening instead, now still busy, hoping to post it ASAP. Sorry for the delay. Take your time, won't be able to make the edit deadline at this point so we can just bring it into week 2.
MitzaVolchenko 04-26-06, 04:52 PM	Kitty can't catch Khaz because Khaz can double move, and Kitty can't charge him unless he moves by the south of the central pilars (which he won't, since both enemies are there). By moving through the north, Kitty can't intercept him (too far) and by moving through the pilars interception is irrelevant, Kitty could double move and base (risking a deadly grapple, I doubt he would!) but never charge and attack. If you want to hold it over for further editing, I will happily edit the fight to see to it that all concerns are addressed. I can see your point, and I do not disagree that my bad call on the scroll had an impact. In the case of fly suceeding and Khazz heading north, the other team turns on Korinel and probably snuffs him first instead. The biggest thing that went against you beyond the fly failure was that you started half an arena away with no tactic to sneak until you find each other. Assuming that Khazz evades and they turn on Korinel, Korinel cannot get far enough fast enough to prevent them from killing him. You had no invis contingency and in fact had it written to call out to each other to find each other. If hold over and edit is what you wish, I will happily re-do the fight tomorrow for you.
Argaud 04-26-06, 05:14 PM	If you want to hold it over for further editing, I will happily edit the fight to see to it that all concerns are addressed. I can see your point, and I do not disagree that my bad call on the scroll had an impact. In the case of fly suceeding and Khazz heading north, the other team turns on Korinel and probably snuffs him first instead. The biggest thing that went against you beyond the fly failure was that you started half an arena away with no tactic to sneak until you find each other. Assuming that Khazz evades and they turn on Korinel, Korinel cannot get far enough fast enough to prevent them from killing him. You had no invis contingency and in fact had it written to call out to each other to find each other. If hold over and edit is what you wish, I will happily re-do the fight tomorrow for you. Okay, but let me show you some pretty maps. I think you are severely underestimating Khaz mobility :-) Round 1 http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kitt,T,0,-26,Kitty;b=Khaz,M,30,0,Khaz Khaz fails his spellcasting. Meep! Round 2 http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kitt,M,0,-26,Kitty;b=Khaz,M,30,0,18,0,Khaz While Kitty drinks his potion, I assume Khaz manages the spell and moves 60’ Round 3 http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kitt,M,0,-26,Kitty;b=Khaz,M,18,0,1,1,0,2,-4,1,Khaz Kitty drinks magic fang, still without LoS to Khas, Khaz moves 120’ and Kitty can see him, but you think Kitty can intercept? Check the map! Round 4 http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kitt,M,0,-26,0,-20,-4,-16,-7,-5,Kitty;b=Khaz,M,-4,1,-28,0,Khaz Kitty does his best to intercept, but look how far can Khaz move. 24 squares are a lot! Edit to add something: In round 5 Khaz falls sleep and there is no way for Korinel to reach him to wake him up. The obvious solution to the problem is shot him with the bow. Even one hp of damage would wake him (Korinel could even try the shot to be non-lethal damage) and it is better for him to get shot by an arrow that to be CDG-ed.
LongArcher 04-26-06, 05:26 PM	I just read my fight and just wanted to say that I'm WAY out of range of Tatyana's 160' missiles. By my count, at the time of the one-shot killing stroke, I am 23 squares lenght and 10 squares height. Adding the .5 for diagonals, i'm roughly 172.5 feet away. Too far for Tatyana to strike at me. Can you take a look at this Pittbull and continue the fight from there. I shall accept whatever verdict you chose. Such is life, there is no accounting for the uber-luck factore I guess. Amz
Usurpator 04-26-06, 05:30 PM	What's with the boards, trying to post in the battles thread for over an hour, but keeps timing out on me....
LongArcher 04-26-06, 06:35 PM	I just read my fight and just wanted to say that I'm WAY out of range of Tatyana's 160' missiles. By my count, at the time of the one-shot killing stroke, I am 23 squares lenght and 10 squares height. Adding the .5 for diagonals, i'm roughly 172.5 feet away. Too far for Tatyana to strike at me. Can you take a look at this Pittbull and continue the fight from there. I shall accept whatever verdict you chose. Such is life, there is no accounting for the uber-luck factore I guess. Amz Specials: If by some miracle she is able to spot me on first round, which means she had no time to cast any protective spells, cast mirror image first I'm just wondering why the pitlord blatantly ignored my tactics? I have a few reasons, but it would be rude of me to say. :D Amz
MitzaVolchenko 04-27-06, 02:42 AM	This is the conversation between myself and Pitlords regarding the blatantly abusive 're-run' that Abyssal Stalker did for the Zwei vs. Hassan fight. I have a huge issue with this. Aside from Zwei's fight, I have an issue with the GM being unwilling to overrule a wrong call. That is what the GM is there for. I have been busting my hump and giving up free time and sleep for the boards to run and people to have fun. I am one of the few PL's that will pick up extra fights, take a heavy load, run quests, and see to it that edits are done if humanly possible. I am offended that there is no recourse to a truly bad PL job. The rules say that the GM is our recourse...apparently that is just there to look good. Every fight that I run, I accept that I may have to edit or re-run. Most people here are really cool about pointing out errors and accepting that PL's are human. When there is time, I am always willing to re-edit a fight as often as needed to get it to the point where everyone is satisfied. If I fail to get to that point within the time alotted, I am always willing to admit that there is a fight affecting error and leave it up to the players to decide if it needs hold over for editing and/or re-run. This fight has left me absolutely soured on the boards. It is not the issue of Zwei taking a loss...I can handle that, but the fact that I am cheated out of a fair run because the GM will not do his job, makes me not want to bother. I would have addressed the issue with Stalker here earlier if I had not only acciedentally seen the re-run a few minutes before I absolutely had to leave for work today. Mitza's emotional state is now at the point of why bother? Sure it is just a game, but like some of the folks that came (and left) before me, I am feeling like if it isn't an enjoyable game with fair rules, evenly enforced, why should I play? I will continue this week to give myself time to cool off, but honestly, this may be it for me. I finally saw the 'edit' that Stalker did on pure chance, but did not link in the FotW thread. I am requesting a holdover and re-run or re-edit. He rearranged the rolls rather than starting at the point where he was at and was overruled by the elder ruling. As the fight originally ended, Zwei was struck by an arrow after making her listen check to provide awareness. The fight should have continued from there rather than being rewound and rearranged to gain the effect that Stalker has apparently decided upon. Sorry Mitza. The PL needs to tell me that. So who do we appeal bad calls to? Look at the fight for yourself. I contested it and got the elder ruling because he killed me in that last round after a successful listen check for awareness with and arrow that should have deflected. I have to get Stalker to say, "Yes, I just rearranged things until my chosen result occurred."? Yes, the pitlord has the final say.
MindWandererB 04-27-06, 03:10 AM	Mitza: If you need a break to feel better about this, then go ahead. We all get frustrated with pitlords from time to time. I was throwing a pretty serious fit when I asked to stay out of possible Magic Missile range (when my target was Entangled; should have been easy), but the pitlord decided that it wasn't worth it and had Mektos burn out an entire Brooch of Shielding instead. Most expensive fight I've ever had, and the only 1-on-1 Aerryl has ever lost. I wouldn't even mind the loss so much if it didn't cost me a 1500 gp item to boot. But ultimately, I put that bitterness aside and moved on. I've also had one fight that was run so horribly that, when the pitlord declined to fix the glaring mistakes, I asked for someone else to re-run it, and they did (fortunately, the same week). And I had one where the pitlord ran the fight adequately (barely, after edits), but switched the names of the characters around, which caused Pitlords to incorrectly credit the win and the loss. However, none of these cases required the GM to step in and change a fight. I have yet to see a fight that was that bad by the time the deadline for the week was up, so I don't know what would happen in that case. And many of us have felt shortchanged the way you do. I try to do the best dang job I can with my fights, and I think I succeed, for the most part--my complaint rate is pretty low--so I feel gypped when I get a fight without annotated rolls, without clear descriptions of what the characters are doing, and with bad spelling and grammar. Of course, it feels worse when I lose, even if it has nothing to do with the quality of the run. But then I remember that I do what I do because it helps the community, and not because the community helps me. The former attitude keeps the CoCo alive; the latter kills it. We've played around with the idea of a review system before; maybe we should take a look at it again sometime. However, in this particular case, a review would be very difficult. As written, there don't seem to be any mistakes. When Abyssal corrected the timing on True Strike, he also altered the sequence of events so that Zwei didn't hear Hassan that round. There's nothing blatantly wrong with it the way it is, so there's really nothing to be done. I honestly doubt that Abyssal had it in for you; it just came out that way because of the confluence of the two edits. So take a deep breath, do something else for a while, and cut down to one or two fights this week (please not down to nothing--we do appreciate you!). No one is trying to be malicious or biased (that I can tell), even if it seems that way sometimes. Tell Cat how you're feeling, and maybe even request a pitlord you trust to run your fights for a couple of weeks. He might grant you that, if you feel like you might leave the way things are.
Pittbull 04-27-06, 03:20 AM	I'm just wondering why the pitlord blatantly ignored my tactics? I have a few reasons, but it would be rude of me to say. :D Amz The only reason was, I forgot this part. BTW, I don't like sarcastic tones in after fight comments. I was my failure, you are right and I will fix the fight, no problem. So Archie will drops his scroll of alter self, draw a scroll of mirror images and casts the spell. -------- I calculated the distances with Macbrea's distance-calculater (here (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php)). It said the distance is 145' (-9,12,0 to 4,30,10). -------- In your tactics you wrote to stay out of his close and medium range and you want to check what his powers are. Without psicraft this is not possible. Sorry, Archie doesn't know anything about psionics. -------- Another point, I will only change the fight, if Gonbow gives the go, because I don't want to sit him out, just because of your lateness (the fight is up since monday) to point out a mistake. So it's his call. I have no problem to do this fight again, it'll be up tomorrow.
Vathelokai 04-27-06, 04:47 AM	We've played around with the idea of a review system before; maybe we should take a look at it again sometime. However, in this particular case, a review would be very difficult. As written, there don't seem to be any mistakes. When Abyssal corrected the timing on True Strike, he also altered the sequence of events so that Zwei didn't hear Hassan that round. There's nothing blatantly wrong with it the way it is, so there's really nothing to be done. I honestly doubt that Abyssal had it in for you; it just came out that way because of the confluence of the two edits.More generally, I think there is a problem with the rerun policy. Some pitlords keep all the rolls in the order they are rolled and if there is a change, the rolls get moved forward or backward in the order of actions. Other pitlords delete obsolete rolls and make new rolls for new actions. Right now either path is acceptable. Perhaps some kind of 'how to rerun a fight' post would be a good thing?
Abyssal Stalker 04-27-06, 07:34 AM	This is the conversation between myself and Pitlords regarding the blatantly abusive 're-run' that Abyssal Stalker did for the Zwei vs. Hassan fight. I have a huge issue with this. Aside from Zwei's fight, I have an issue with the GM being unwilling to overrule a wrong call. That is what the GM is there for. I have been busting my hump and giving up free time and sleep for the boards to run and people to have fun. I am one of the few PL's that will pick up extra fights, take a heavy load, run quests, and see to it that edits are done if humanly possible. I am offended that there is no recourse to a truly bad PL job. The rules say that the GM is our recourse...apparently that is just there to look good. Every fight that I run, I accept that I may have to edit or re-run. Most people here are really cool about pointing out errors and accepting that PL's are human. When there is time, I am always willing to re-edit a fight as often as needed to get it to the point where everyone is satisfied. If I fail to get to that point within the time alotted, I am always willing to admit that there is a fight affecting error and leave it up to the players to decide if it needs hold over for editing and/or re-run. This fight has left me absolutely soured on the boards. It is not the issue of Zwei taking a loss...I can handle that, but the fact that I am cheated out of a fair run because the GM will not do his job, makes me not want to bother. I would have addressed the issue with Stalker here earlier if I had not only acciedentally seen the re-run a few minutes before I absolutely had to leave for work today. Mitza's emotional state is now at the point of why bother? Sure it is just a game, but like some of the folks that came (and left) before me, I am feeling like if it isn't an enjoyable game with fair rules, evenly enforced, why should I play? I will continue this week to give myself time to cool off, but honestly, this may be it for me. I am really sorry if I have made you feel bad. I have posted Pitlords that I'll do a re-run on the fight without some old dice rolls haunting there. For my defence I have to say that I haven't intentionally done anything to harm your character or even considered rearranging things. I have no interest on the outcome of the fight, if I had, it would be on your side Mitza. (Zwei is a member of the EHTC and we need all the money we can get) What makes me feel bad is that I'm being accused of such a low thing as fixing a fights result. I feel that honesty is an important characteristic in people and I would never do something like I'm accused of. The reason the fight might look fixed are the old rolls -which by the way I have used in the order as they have been made, just like I do always if I have to go back on a fight- and the fact that there was also another mistake. Macbrea and Vathelokai both pointed it out to me that I had Hassan using True Strike incorrectly. I corrected that and the result is there to be seen. I didn't post the edit on this thread because of the problems with the boards. My intentions have been good all the time and I don't wish cause anyone bad feelings. I apologize if my actions have caused harm and I hope that they don't force anybody to leave the CoCo. I appreciate you for taking such a workload and hope that we can continue to RP together also in the future. I will do the re-run as soon as I get the time.
lonewolf 04-27-06, 07:51 AM	Im reading the fight Sliver vs. The White Hand vs. Loquan and noticed a mistake here. Better to point it out now: In round 5 Sliver should get an opposed Hide vs Spot check. She is invisible and Loquan has Touchsight, but that doesnt prevent her from hiding mudanely.
waywreth 04-27-06, 09:04 AM	Im reading the fight Sliver vs. The White Hand vs. Loquan and noticed a mistake here. Better to point it out now: In round 5 Sliver should get an opposed Hide vs Spot check. She is invisible and Loquan has Touchsight, but that doesnt prevent her from hiding mudanely. True, Sliver can hide normally, but if she's within 60' of Loquan it doesn't help. You generate a subtle telekinetic field of mental contact, allowing you to “feel” your surroundings even in total darkness or when your sight would otherwise be obscured by your physical environment. Your touchsight field emanates from you out to 60 feet. You ignore invisibility, darkness, and concealment, though you must have line of effect to a creature or an object to discern it. You do not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures; you can detect and pinpoint all creatures within 60 feet. In many circumstances, comparing your regular senses to what you learn with touchsight is enough to tell you the difference between visible, invisible, hiding, and concealed creatures.
lonewolf 04-27-06, 09:11 AM	True, Sliver can hide normally, but if she's within 60' of Loquan it doesn't help. Youre right. Touchsight is better than I thought it is.
Pittbull 04-27-06, 09:45 AM	Since it seems, we have enough time to fix the fight, there are likely no pairings this week, I'll start to do the corrections tomorrow. In the first round Archie will use a scroll of mirror image as noted in the tactics. A scroll, because his tactics say: "All spells are via scrolls unless otherwise stated." and "If by some miracle she is able to spot me on first round, which means she had no time to cast any protective spells, cast mirror image first,...". Now to my next problem, how does energy-missle work on a person who is affected by mirror image? It's no ranged touch-attack-spell, it's a reflex-save-spell. Is it treated like an area spell? Or are all images destroyed, because the missle can attack up to 5 creatures? Nevertheless Archie will still live after the first attack since he has still the racial energy resistance.
Macbrea 04-27-06, 09:59 AM	I calculated the distances with Macbrea's distance-calculater (here (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php)). It said the distance is 145' (-9,12,0 to 4,30,10). That is Mal-2's generator but just to prove the math for DnD is correct. -9 to 4 = 13 squares 12 to 30 = 18 squares Ground wise that is 18 + (13/2) = 24 squares movement 0 to 10 = 10 squares 24 + (10/2) = 29 squares movement 29 squares = 145' distance in dnd. In reality (not dnd distance) it is ground distance Sqr( 65^2 + 80^2) = 103 ft Up being 50ft. Would calculate as follows: Sqt (103ft^2 + 50ft^2) = 114.5 ft. As you can see in dnd the distances are skewed. The calculator calculates according to DND movement system of 1 extra square per 2 squares of diagnal movement. Those are the rules to DnD.
Pittbull 04-27-06, 10:02 AM	Sorry, Mal-2. :embarrass
Mal-2 04-27-06, 10:16 AM	Sorry, Mal-2. :embarrass It's okay. I'm not even 100% sure that my distance calculator is right for 3d, since the SRD isn't very clear about how to calculate 3d distances. If there's any intrest, I can go over my maths and diagrams for how I calculate D&D distances some time this weekend and post them for discussion. I'm afraid they got a little complicated though :) I will say that my calculator generally agrees with real 3D distances to about the same degree that D&D distances match up with real 2D distances.
MitzaVolchenko 04-27-06, 02:15 PM	@ Abyssal Stalker I appreciate you taking the time to respond. You are wrong about needing to correct true strike. Hassan's tactics say 'If she doesn't come toward me, it is a wasted charge.' Because of you fixing something that was mentioned in the tactics of my opponent as possible/probable, it looked an awful lot like fight engineering. I apologize for thinking ill of you on this instance. It is particularly bad looking when some of the rolls have multiple edits, and we have no way to see what the original descriptor was. My real issue here, though, is not really so much about how I feel about the fight you ran. @MindwandererB Our rules provide for requesting a re-run or edit from Pitlords. Our rules actually provide for rather a lot of 'go to' things that default to the GM. On nearly every occasion that I have had cause to go to Cat for something, I have gotten a dismissive response that indicates that Cat did not even look at the situation before giving a response. In this case, I wanted to make the point that the ONLY appeal level we have above a PL is the GM, and the GM refuses to make rulings. @All I needed to vent a little bit, but the real issue which I have pointed out (with less than good grace, perhaps) is that there is a problem. Whether anyone else agrees with me or not, in my opinion there is a problem.
MitzaVolchenko 04-27-06, 02:42 PM	@My team fighters, I will be running that fight again in full edit mode. I will use my listed already rolled rolls until I run out of them (using the time-honored method of keeping thematic rolls where they are) and then switch to an online roller to finish out if needed. I would have done it this morning, but after four days of giving up too much sleep to work on CoCo, I decided to turn my alarm clock off this morning. I have reviewed and made notes on all concerns, and with the FAQ rule to refer to, I shall correct the fly situation. @Telveran, Nell, I will go ahead and edit the DR into that one and add the requisite rounds, presuming we don't do pairings over before then. I do not think it will change outcomes, but it has been bothering me that I didn't get the time to give Tel those two or so more chances to crit Nell before dropping dead.
Pittbull 04-27-06, 03:17 PM	Sorry, that I repeat myself. Could someone help me. What happens when manifest energy missle on a character with mirror image? Does he get full damage? Are all images destroyed, it says It can hit up to five targets.
Pittbull 04-27-06, 03:19 PM	@Mitza: Thanks for your efford. I'll accept whatever the outcome is.
MitzaVolchenko 04-27-06, 03:23 PM	Sorry, that I repeat myself. Could someone help me. What happens when manifest energy missle on a character with mirror image? Does he get full damage? Are all images destroyed, it says It can hit up to five targets. It hits 5 random images (& possibly the real person). It destroys any image it hits and does full damage to any real person it hits. Note that the damage is only for one hit...you cannot hit the same person multiple times with the same missile manifestation.
SoulLord 04-27-06, 04:24 PM	Sorry, that I repeat myself. Could someone help me. What happens when manifest energy missle on a character with mirror image? Does he get full damage? Are all images destroyed, it says It can hit up to five targets. Each mirror image would be 1 target, which could be targeted by the energy missile up to 5 images + the gladiator would be valid targets so mirror image 1d4 images +1/3 levels so at 3rd level there could be max 6 targets 5 images + you the gladiator would only be hit once no matter how many images exists though
LongArcher 04-27-06, 11:24 PM	The only reason was, I forgot this part. BTW, I don't like sarcastic tones in after fight comments. I was my failure, you are right and I will fix the fight, no problem. So Archie will drops his scroll of alter self, draw a scroll of mirror images and casts the spell. -------- I calculated the distances with Macbrea's distance-calculater (here (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php)). It said the distance is 145' (-9,12,0 to 4,30,10). -------- In your tactics you wrote to stay out of his close and medium range and you want to check what his powers are. Without psicraft this is not possible. Sorry, Archie doesn't know anything about psionics. -------- Another point, I will only change the fight, if Gonbow gives the go, because I don't want to sit him out, just because of your lateness (the fight is up since monday) to point out a mistake. So it's his call. I have no problem to do this fight again, it'll be up tomorrow. Dang, I was trying to be funny (hence the smiley), but was interpreted as sarcasting. No harm my friend...I mean you no disrespect or ill will...unless I lose again of course. <<-- Joke. : Since I am only able to log on once every three or four days (and that is the best I can do), I just wanted to point out, that Archie doesn't need to drop his scroll as he has mirror image memorized...since it is under "emergency". Normally I would use a scroll first though, so I have absolutely no objections to dropping it. I understand your quote of my tactics and it is my failing, not yours. I think you are doing a fabulous job Pittbull to even give me this much. I know I am unable to log on but once or maybe twice during any given week and it is a source of consternation in this match. Again, I will accpet any verdict you chose. Please accept my sincerest apolagies as it wasn't meant with any way of sarcasm, just friendly teasing from one vet to another. Amz
TheMagister 04-28-06, 07:22 AM	So, Dsugui, what was the verdict on the edit of the Sdentch => Lissa => Va'ria fight? I caught your post about the boards problems and RL problems, but nothing after that. @All - my power supply went out on my computer at home (AGAIN!), but I have access at work, so sorry for my silence the last few days (and everyone here says "You were gone?"). TM
Pittbull 04-28-06, 09:21 AM	Tatyana vs Archie (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9011427&postcount=564) has been fixed. I tried to stick strickly to the tactics. It is the same result, but it took longer and was more expensive.
DSugui 04-28-06, 09:36 AM	So, Dsugui, what was the verdict on the edit of the Sdentch => Lissa => Va'ria fight? I caught your post about the boards problems and RL problems, but nothing after that. Well, I left it the way it was, but since there will be no fights to run for now I think I'll fix it this weekend. I'll let you know when I am finished.
LongArcher 04-28-06, 09:53 AM	Tatyana vs Archie (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9011427&postcount=564) has been fixed. I tried to stick strickly to the tactics. It is the same result, but it took longer and was more expensive. I just have a quick question. Would my resistance not affect each missile? Since Tatyana had to split the missiles, my resistance would negate 5 pts per missile. I confess, I am not very familiar with psionics, but if it works like magic missles (the description seems similar), then my resistance would negate 5 pts of damage per missile, which would mean I would hardly take any damage at all. Can anyone clarify this for me? That is the interpretation I come up with at least, but I would like to hear other opinions. Amz
Pittbull 04-28-06, 10:04 AM	I thought every of this up to five missle deals full damage.
waywreth 04-28-06, 10:06 AM	I just have a quick question. Would my resistance not affect each missile? Since Tatyana had to split the missiles, my resistance would negate 5 pts per missile. I confess, I am not very familiar with psionics, but if it works like magic missles (the description seems similar), then my resistance would negate 5 pts of damage per missile, which would mean I would hardly take any damage at all. Can anyone clarify this for me? That is the interpretation I come up with at least, but I would like to hear other opinions. Amz It's only one missle, which can hit up to 5 targets within 15' overall. So, as correctly done in the fight, your resistance only applies once. Energy missle is nasty.
Mal-2 04-28-06, 10:14 AM	I just have a quick question. Would my resistance not affect each missile? Since Tatyana had to split the missiles, my resistance would negate 5 pts per missile. I confess, I am not very familiar with psionics, but if it works like magic missles (the description seems similar), then my resistance would negate 5 pts of damage per missile, which would mean I would hardly take any damage at all. Can anyone clarify this for me? That is the interpretation I come up with at least, but I would like to hear other opinions. Here's a link to Energy Missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyMissile.htm), which is the power she used. Both times she manifested the power, she chose multiple targets: you and each of your images. Each Energy Bolt does 6d6+6 damage, but you only got hit with one each time. So, you would get your energy resistance against each missile, but since you were only hit by one of them, you only get it once. It's not 6 missiles that are each 1d6+1 damage.
Abyssal Stalker 04-28-06, 10:14 AM	I have completed the re-run of the fight Zwei vs Hassan. I'm waiting for comments. It can't be this easy...maybe I'll get rid of this fight before the next pairings (this is supposed to be sarcastic). :pumpkin:
MitzaVolchenko 04-28-06, 01:47 PM	I have completed the re-run of the fight Zwei vs Hassan. I'm waiting for comments. It can't be this easy...maybe I'll get rid of this fight before the next pairings (this is supposed to be sarcastic). :pumpkin: LOL Zwei is neutral...she'd probably accept his surrender. I can understand why you wouldn't want to run the archery duel that the fight becomes after the first arrow from invis misses, though I did specify for ranged combat with the grapple under other circumstances. Frankly the one shot kill is more or less what Hassan had. I will not argue with your decision to grapple as I was having the devil's own time keeping that wiley little elf from disappearing on me. If she lives, shoot her with augmented sonic energy ray (2pp for 2d6-2). After that shoot her with arrows. While this technically should have been the next action, there is not much point as even on a max dmg critical hit, it doesn't kill her. @Vath, if I were you, I would have gone for entangling ectoplasm followed by the energy ray. I will grant that Zwei's saves are high enough that I rely on them a bit more than is safe, but you would have had a couple of rounds of her trying to get out of the goo to beat on her.
Abyssal Stalker 04-28-06, 02:17 PM	LOL Zwei is neutral...she'd probably accept his surrender. I can understand why you wouldn't want to run the archery duel that the fight becomes after the first arrow from invis misses, though I did specify for ranged combat with the grapple under other circumstances. Frankly the one shot kill is more or less what Hassan had. I will not argue with your decision to grapple as I was having the devil's own time keeping that wiley little elf from disappearing on me. Oh well, I somehow figured Zwei being more evil. Maybe it was the p***** off Mitza in her head telling her to kill...one never knows. I kinda realized that when I was already doing the grapple rolls. Zwei should've stopped when she had moved 40ft and take a shot. But then I thought that it didn't really matter and didn't want to edit the fight and create a mess out of the rolls.
Vathelokai 04-29-06, 02:50 AM	@Vath, if I were you, I would have gone for entangling ectoplasm followed by the energy ray. I will grant that Zwei's saves are high enough that I rely on them a bit more than is safe, but you would have had a couple of rounds of her trying to get out of the goo to beat on her. Yeah - I really didn't have anything other than the one shot kill. If I had understood deflect arrows when I wrote the tactics, I may have gone for more elaborate tactics. Hassan has silence, entangle, entangling ectoplasm, mirror image.... Sloppy tactics from me here.
MitzaVolchenko 04-29-06, 02:29 PM	@Usurp...where is Hothead? He is my eye inthe sky...you can decide that he is too dumb to interrupt scroll casting, but he still has eyes and a link directly to the sparkly bug.
Usurpator 04-29-06, 02:55 PM	@Usurp...where is Hothead? He is my eye inthe sky...you can decide that he is too dumb to interrupt scroll casting, but he still has eyes and a link directly to the sparkly bug. He's there circling in the center, making sure that you are appraised of threats as well as possible for him to relay to you through the empathic link. But unless he actually does something that matters, I don't mention him.
Usurpator 04-29-06, 02:59 PM	Oh, and: Sliver vs. The White Hand vs. Loquan: Battle is finished!
waywreth 04-29-06, 03:07 PM	Oh, and: Sliver vs. The White Hand vs. Loquan: Battle is finished! Thanks! I figured 2nd was best case. And I agree with the bag of tricks. Otherwise, Loquan is buying one. Could you please add the "used items" section?
TheMagister 04-29-06, 03:20 PM	If I may ask: Why was the Bear2 getting full attacks at TWH after TWH moves away? TWH should shoot/move 30ft. You might own me 13 or so hp... (rounds 14 and 15 are the ones). Edit:Oh, and the Bag of Tricks creatures were never supposed to come into the equation. Flying up to the pixie and pincushioning her while 25' up (away from darned animals) WAS my anti-animal strategy. Still, a potion of pass without trace wouldn't have been too hard for me to mention, I confess. Darned mishap. I've never SEEN so many failed activations... Sigh. TM
MitzaVolchenko 04-29-06, 05:39 PM	@My team gladiators, edit is up. I have posted the only remaining concern Ihave for answer in the elders thread. It is a fight affecting issue (potentially), so I will wait on ruling before refusing to edit any further.
MitzaVolchenko 04-29-06, 06:28 PM	Oh, and: Sliver vs. The White Hand vs. Loquan: Battle is finished! Interesting fight, that was exciting in the first 10-15 rounds but petered out after that. IMO Pixies characters are unfit for arena fights, not because they are too powerful, but because they result in extreme evasion-like fights. In this fight Sliver was nothing more than a hard-to-pin down magic-item carrier. Also, I think it is weird that x uses per week items are treated the same as x/uses per day items. I think a bag of tricks should be able to create only 1 animal in the arena. I mean, a 1st lvl barbarian can rage 7 times per week, but only once in the arena. Heck, an 8th lvl barbarian can rage 21 times a week, but still only once in the arena. Don’t know why bag of tricks can function 4 times in the arena instead of once. By this logic anyone using expendables or magic items as a primary fighting method should be outlawed as they are not anything but item users. The issue with barbarians is per the core barbarian rules not per CoCo or anything else. Please note that pixies come with very few hit points and have a relatively high LA for what advantages they get. Their primary advantage of invisibility is defeated with a relatively cheap expendable. CoCo has already nerfed the most fun item on pixies which is their memory loss arrows (I so wanted to make people pre-buff a wanted poster of Sliver onto their chest or the inside of their shield). With the last revision, they lost their polymorph. The effect is that for 6,300gp (oh yeah that didn't hurt my starting funds at all) I can get an item that gives me a snowball's chance in hades against all of the one shot, item buffing twinks. And also note that a few cold iron arrows, paired with the ability to locate her is a cheap way to kill her fast and with no recourse. I understand that her style is one that draws out fights, but the fact is that it is no less a valid strat than any of the others. I mean, really dissolving weapon is just unfair, and those invisible flying grapplers really must go. @Mitza: I tried to play Sliver within the spirit of your tactics as well as I could, even though I put some restrictions on your use of animals. I hope you are happy with my decisions. You did fine, but I do think you need to review Intelligence and its effects as well as the link between master and familiar. A familiar is not an animal, no matter what it looks like. Frankly, had I been PLing that fight I would have surrendered when it became clear that one party could not defeat the other party, but I am fine with using 6 MM charges to get the win. That is what the wand was there for. Also note that the animals are meaningful interaction just like any other ally. If they aren't, then Loquan violates the delay rule very early on as he floats around waiting to be able to do something effective and letting his allies get mauled. @my opponents All in all, good fight. Were I in your position, I would not have wasted my time trying to kill someone that I had little chance of killing. I would have gunned all out for second place and then tried for the pixie once all other options were out of the way.
Usurpator 04-29-06, 07:08 PM	The issue with barbarians is per the core barbarian rules not per CoCo or anything else. No its not, 1st lvl core barbarians actually get an advantage, because fractions are rounded up. I was just saying that a x/week item should be treated the same as x/day item. Suppose I had an item that worked 10 times/year, does that mean I can use it four times in a CoCo battle? Because that is what the current rule are saying.... Please note that pixies come with very few hit points and have a relatively high LA for what advantages they get. Their primary advantage of invisibility is defeated with a relatively cheap expendable. CoCo has already nerfed the most fun item on pixies which is their memory loss arrows (I so wanted to make people pre-buff a wanted poster of Sliver onto their chest or the inside of their shield). With the last revision, they lost their polymorph. That is precisely my point, I'm not saying that Pixies are unbalanced or should be nerfed. I'm just saying that playing one forces one to play extreme evasion all-or-nothing fights. Such fights are, IMO, generally harder and less fun to Pitlord and less fun to write tactics against. Same with NiQil's 150+ arrows stay at range characters. Generally not fun. Doesn't mean its unbalanced, just not fun for all concerned parties except for player of said Pixie perhaps. Possibly there are Pitlords who love run-and-hide battles, zillions of spot checks and 3D calculations of positions, with endless loops of repeat tactics, I'm not one of them. The effect is that for 6,300gp (oh yeah that didn't hurt my starting funds at all) I can get an item that gives me a snowball's chance in hades against all of the one shot, item buffing twinks. And also note that a few cold iron arrows, paired with the ability to locate her is a cheap way to kill her fast and with no recourse. The Bag of Tricks has nothing to do with Pixies. The Bag of Tricks uses per day is weird regardless of that. I have recognized the power of the bag a long time ago, I especially asked when I first came here how many uses you would get for it. The answer at that time was 4, which was weird to me, but made the bag very powerful. I understand that her style is one that draws out fights, but the fact is that it is no less a valid strat than any of the others. I mean, really dissolving weapon is just unfair, and those invisible flying grapplers really must go. Good strategies might rarely feel 'fair'. I'm not claiming that, I'm just saying it is not a lot of fun to play against. You did fine, but I do think you need to review Intelligence and its effects as well as the link between master and familiar. A familiar is not an animal, no matter what it looks like. It didn't matter since you tactic wasn't viable anyway. For the hawk to make a ready action against spellcasting from scrolls it would have to have hover 5 ft. from TWH to do so. It would even have to hover directly above TWH, to prevent him from 5 ft. stepping away and negating the tactic. Even so, Hawks cannot hover, they have to keep moving forward (average maneuverability) so it couldn't be done even if the hawk had 20 Int. I never claimed it was an animal, I claimed it had 6 Int, and you can only communicate with it through empathy, not telepathy, and you cannot agree on complicated tactics beforehand because empathy only confers feelings. I was claiming you were expecting to much from your familiar. Frankly, had I been PLing that fight I would have surrendered when it became clear that one party could not defeat the other party, but I am fine with using 6 MM charges to get the win. That is what the wand was there for. I never do that. Also, if my gladiators ever fight have to face a hopeless battle, my goal will change to make the battle as costly for my opponent as possible. You don't give opponents victories, and weakening them by making them expend more resources might matter the next time you face them. Surrender is only feasibly when nothing is to gain. Also note that the animals are meaningful interaction just like any other ally. If they aren't, then Loquan violates the delay rule very early on as he floats around waiting to be able to do something effective and letting his allies get mauled. Animals are not meaningful interaction in and of themselves. If your animals interact meaningfully with your opponent, then there is 'meaningful interaction initiated by you', and that is my criterion. For example if you tell you toad familiar to attack your enemy (who is flying) you cannot use that as an excuse to avoid combat indefinitely. I can talk for hours over the vagueness of the stupid delay rule, but to me a token effort does not count as meaningful interaction. Shooting fire at a creature immune to fire every ten rounds in order to 'reset the delay clock' is not meaningful.
Argaud 04-29-06, 07:11 PM	@My team gladiators, edit is up. I have posted the only remaining concern Ihave for answer in the elders thread. It is a fight affecting issue (potentially), so I will wait on ruling before refusing to edit any further. Thank you for reviewing the combat, I think you made a couple mistakes, though: Round 4 Not really a mistake but that is a really dumb move on Korinels part, which leaves himself open to Kitty’s charge. He had a column close enough to break Kitty’s line of charge. Also, I think Korinel moves 20’ crawling on the ceiling, not 15’, since the movement under levitation rules is ‘half base land speed’ and Korinel land speed is modified by barbarian Fast Move. Round 5 But it really doesn’t matter, because Kitty can’t charge at all now. In round 5 Kitty is flying at 5’ high, and Korinel is levitating at 50’, it takes Kitty 90’ (45x2 even with good maneuverability) of movement to get to 50’. Distance in the 3D axis, according to the distance calculator, is 125’ (assuming Kitty is at -6,-9 and 5’ high, and Korinel at -24,-2 and 50’ high). Kitty can charge 120’, but he would need a charging move of 165’ to reach Korinel. That even if charging upwards is allowed, which I doubt (although I can’t find rules disallowing it at the moment). I am going to ask in the elders thread about it. Edited to add that Loddick's arrow in round 5 would have been deflected by Khaz' Deflect Arrows feat.
Macbrea 04-29-06, 10:00 PM	'half base land speed' Shouldn't that be half of the BASE land speed. Not half the LAND SPEED? Base land speed for a human is 30ft. You can add to that in order to get bonus speed, such as fast movement.
Vathelokai 04-30-06, 07:57 AM	Ten Vermond vs. Micah Ashald is posted. Archery duel where both ran out of arrows before going to melee, which then lasted only 3 rounds. You can just read the rolls (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=210) since that is most of the fight anyway.
Pittbull 04-30-06, 08:03 AM	Regarding the speed: The +10 from the barbarian-class is for land-speed. I'm not sure, but I think moving on the ceiling via levitation can't be considered as land-movement, so Mitza seems to be right. I'm pretty sure that you can't charge upwards with only good flying-ability, since your movement is decreased. Sorry, I have no quote to base this. If you use Mal-2's calculater for the coordinates from Kitty to Korinel, the results is: Calculating distance from [-9, -6, 0] to [-24, -2, 10]: 22 squares (110'). Argaud might have a mistake in his calculation. Edit: Regarding sleep, we used the rules for the spell: Slapping or wounding awakens an affected creature, but normal noise does not. Awakening a creature is a standard action (an application of the aid another action). Edit2: If someone's sleeping, Korinel or Kazzz might use their bows, if they are not able to base themselves.
MitzaVolchenko 04-30-06, 09:11 AM	No its not, 1st lvl core barbarians actually get an advantage, because fractions are rounded up. I was just saying that a x/week item should be treated the same as x/day item. Suppose I had an item that worked 10 times/year, does that mean I can use it four times in a CoCo battle? Because that is what the current rule are saying.... Core rules restrict them to once per encounter, not CoCo...read it again. That is precisely my point, I'm not saying that Pixies are unbalanced or should be nerfed. I'm just saying that playing one forces one to play extreme evasion all-or-nothing fights. Such fights are, IMO, generally harder and less fun to Pitlord and less fun to write tactics against. Same with NiQil's 150+ arrows stay at range characters. Generally not fun. Doesn't mean its unbalanced, just not fun for all concerned parties except for player of said Pixie perhaps. Possibly there are Pitlords who love run-and-hide battles, zillions of spot checks and 3D calculations of positions, with endless loops of repeat tactics, I'm not one of them. On that all I can say is that if you don't like it, don't PL. Your anti-evasion and anti-pixie commentary just means that I suggest anyone with that type of character review your fights line by line to be certain that your dislike and boredom didn't set in and shortchange them. I prefer dex builds with stealth and smarts to brute bashers. I always have. The Bag of Tricks has nothing to do with Pixies. The Bag of Tricks uses per day is weird regardless of that. I have recognized the power of the bag a long time ago, I especially asked when I first came here how many uses you would get for it. The answer at that time was 4, which was weird to me, but made the bag very powerful. It costs SIX THOUSAND, THREE HUNDRED GOLD AND IS USELESS BEYOND ABOUT ECL6. Good strategies might rarely feel 'fair'. I'm not claiming that, I'm just saying it is not a lot of fun to play against. And I find fighting against a suped up, expendable buffed, one shotter duller than dull. That whole five rounds of buff for one true-striked shot is just plain boring. Not fun to run, not fun to fight against. It didn't matter since you tactic wasn't viable anyway. For the hawk to make a ready action against spellcasting from scrolls it would have to have hover 5 ft. from TWH to do so. It would even have to hover directly above TWH, to prevent him from 5 ft. stepping away and negating the tactic. Even so, Hawks cannot hover, they have to keep moving forward (average maneuverability) so it couldn't be done even if the hawk had 20 Int. I never claimed it was an animal, I claimed it had 6 Int, and you can only communicate with it through empathy, not telepathy, and you cannot agree on complicated tactics beforehand because empathy only confers feelings. I was claiming you were expecting to much from your familiar. Because of this empathic link, the master has the same connection to an item or place that his familiar does. You are correct on his movement, not on his capability. He cannot give me direct images, but he is advanced enough to convey emotionally the threat levels of someone's proximity and has enough of a brain to remember what threat each conveys. Keep up this line of thought, and I will burn a few credits to make a mental midget and send you 50,000 character tactics each time you PL for me. Then we can take this debate to the level of PC rather than picking on my poor wittle birdie. I never do that. Also, if my gladiators ever fight have to face a hopeless battle, my goal will change to make the battle as costly for my opponent as possible. You don't give opponents victories, and weakening them by making them expend more resources might matter the next time you face them. Surrender is only feasibly when nothing is to gain. I consider that to be poor sportsmanship. I won't call anyone on the carpet for it, but unless the tactics say make X waste as many resources as possible, I won't do it. Animals are not meaningful interaction in and of themselves. If your animals interact meaningfully with your opponent, then there is 'meaningful interaction initiated by you', and that is my criterion. For example if you tell you toad familiar to attack your enemy (who is flying) you cannot use that as an excuse to avoid combat indefinitely. I can talk for hours over the vagueness of the stupid delay rule, but to me a token effort does not count as meaningful interaction. Shooting fire at a creature immune to fire every ten rounds in order to 'reset the delay clock' is not meaningful. Therefore, because Loquan's bolts have no chance to hit me, and he cannot close, then he is not meaningfully interacting with me by shooting at the animals. You see how that works? If you cannot meaningfully interact, you surrender. You are having that slice of cake and eating it to. The ruling has been made that summons and allies, no matter how ineffetive are considered an attempt at meaningful interaction. Anyone else recall the TFH vs. The archer? Whatever, I am done debating this one with ya' Usurp. Thanks for PL'ing, and I hope for your sake that you do not get any of my sneak and snipers again.
MitzaVolchenko 04-30-06, 09:21 AM	Regarding the speed: The +10 from the barbarian-class is for land-speed. I'm not sure, but I think moving on the ceiling via levitation can't be considered as land-movement, so Mitza seems to be right. I'm pretty sure that you can't charge upwards with only good flying-ability, since your movement is decreased. Sorry, I have no quote to base this. If you use Mal-2's calculater for the coordinates from Kitty to Korinel, the results is: Calculating distance from [-9, -6, 0] to [-24, -2, 10]: 22 squares (110'). Argaud might have a mistake in his calculation. You can't due to the decrease of movement just like rough ground. If I didn't alreadyhave her at cruising altitude, I am sorry aobut that. The 110' is what I had I believe, and I am fairly certain that I had her at the right height already, if not, I had the ability to put her (read him...don't name male characters him, darn it!) at it and still make the movement. Edit: Regarding sleep, we used the rules for the spell: Slapping or wounding awakens an affected creature, but normal noise does not. Awakening a creature is a standard action (an application of the aid another action). Edit2: If someone's sleeping, Korinel or Kazzz might use their bows, if they are not able to base themselves. I considered taking a shot at him to wake him, but at that point it became academic. The bottom line on this one is that bad rolls to resist that sleep after starting split up killed them. I can go back and re-edit, but I am begging everyone to please not make me do so. I really don't want to...please please please, I don't want to see the aerial distance charts again. If I need to it is going to work with me again, and I know my manager is gonna look at me funny when I have everything sticking to my stick board with little dice on the end of straightened paper clips to make the heights right. I'll get the pick of me doing hte fight the first time from Pooka, and post it up for everyone's amusement. It has a nice view of me with a ruler, a used map, tactics and cahracter sheets pinned up all over and piles of dice next to each sheet and me working on a customer's account with one hand on the keyboard and one hand rolling dice.
DarthVegan 04-30-06, 09:46 AM	Thanks, Vath, for running the fight. I guess Micah is destined to be a failure in the arena. (Like so many other pure fighter types, I guess). Perhaps going on a quest or something will raise my spirits, or maybe starting another character with "magic". Oh, the clouds are black tonight my friends...no stars...no moon...blackness so thick that drow think they have gone blind... :weep:
MitzaVolchenko 04-30-06, 09:47 AM	I'll run a quest or MQ for you if you'd like.
Argaud 04-30-06, 09:57 AM	Regarding the speed: The +10 from the barbarian-class is for land-speed. I'm not sure, but I think moving on the ceiling via levitation can't be considered as land-movement, so Mitza seems to be right. Well, the text of the spells says the speed is based on the land speed. It is not a climbing speed, for instance (in the spell Spider Climb it is specified it is a climbing speed, and therefore Fast Movement wouldn't work). But I guess it can interpreted both ways. In this battle it is not particularly important anyway. An elder ruling could come handy, though. Sooner or later it is going to be important in some fight. If you use Mal-2's calculater for the coordinates from Kitty to Korinel, the results is: Calculating distance from [-9, -6, 0] to [-24, -2, 10]: 22 squares (110'). Argaud might have a mistake in his calculation. Are you sure? I used the calculator, and it tells me that: Calculating distance from [-6, -9, 1] to [-24, -2, 10]: 25 squares (125') And: Calculating distance from [-6, -9, 0] to [-24, -2, 10]: 26 squares (130') Edit: Regarding sleep, we used the rules for the spell: Slapping or wounding awakens an affected creature, but normal noise does not. Awakening a creature is a standard action (an application of the aid another action). Edit2: If someone's sleeping, Korinel or Kazzz might use their bows, if they are not able to base themselves. Agreed and agreed.
DarthVegan 04-30-06, 10:23 AM	Thanks, Mitza, for the offer. Do I need to come up with the quest hook, or do you? I'm a quest virgin. I have to go to work now, but I'll try to be online either tonight or tomorrow morning to discuss this wonderful idea further.
Argaud 04-30-06, 10:32 AM	You can't due to the decrease of movement just like rough ground. If I didn't alreadyhave her at cruising altitude, I am sorry aobut that. The 110' is what I had I believe, and I am fairly certain that I had her at the right height already, if not, I had the ability to put her (read him...don't name male characters him, darn it!) at it and still make the movement. Actually there is no way in hell Kitty can climb to 50' and have the needed attitude to charge Korinel, even if Korinel is dumb enough to give him a direct charge line (which he shouldn't!). Round 1: Kitty pulls a tiger from the bag and tosses it out 20'. (Standard action, and I assume a move action to put back the bag in his belt, since there is no mention of him dropping it - nor do I think he would drop the bag considering there are 3 more animals to pull if he needs them. If he drops the bag, though, or if he keeps it in a hand the whole battle, he could climb up 30’). Round 2: Kitty draws and drinks potion of bear's endurance. (Move and standard). Round 3: Kitty draws and drinks magic fang. (Move and standard). Round 4: Kitty moves out looking for enemies, ascending as he goes and veers toward Korinel who is floating at a leisurely pace toward the ceiling. (double move 23 sq, I guess he could have climbed 5’ here). Round 5: Kitty charges Korinel (15)+2chrg+10=27, hit for 3pts of dmg. (illegal charge, Korinel is too far and too high) Round 6: Illegal charge on Khaz, who is also 30’ high. Final result: Thanks to two illegal charges Kitty wins the battle for his team. Unhappy players that see how their characters lose a fight they should have won because the PL made a mistake. I considered taking a shot at him to wake him, but at that point it became academic. The bottom line on this one is that bad rolls to resist that sleep after starting split up killed them. I can go back and re-edit, but I am begging everyone to please not make me do so. I really don't want to...please please please, I don't want to see the aerial distance charts again. If I need to it is going to work with me again, and I know my manager is gonna look at me funny when I have everything sticking to my stick board with little dice on the end of straightened paper clips to make the heights right. I'll get the pick of me doing hte fight the first time from Pooka, and post it up for everyone's amusement. It has a nice view of me with a ruler, a used map, tactics and cahracter sheets pinned up all over and piles of dice next to each sheet and me working on a customer's account with one hand on the keyboard and one hand rolling dice. So the bottom line is you don't want to correct the fight because it is too much hassle, and therefore we should accept an unfair defeat. Look, in our tactics we counter basically every eventuality Kitty and Liddick can toss at us. The poison? Wake each other. The Bag of Tricks? We are flying. Loddick powerful arrows? Deflect for Khaz and crazy high AC for Korinel. I really believe we have the upper hand in the battle, and we lost only because you allowed Kitty to hit our characters before they can join forces. But fact is he simply can’t do that. This week you ran like 5 battles and one MQ, which no doubt made you a very tired PL and pretty sick of the whole thing. But it is not fair for us to be the victims of PL burnout. If you don’t want to run this fight, please leave it to some other Pitlord. However, you have 15 days to think this over and rerun the battle with the right rules and tactics, if you are sick of it I suggest you to just forget about this fight for a few days. There is plenty of time, after all. I admire your dedication, honestly. I almost burned out myself out of the CoCo the week I had to run two fights. Just two fights. They were long, complex affairs that consumed a lot of time and left me in a poor mood. Unfortunately half the battles in the CoCo are anything but simple, and this is probably a complex one. But please, give our characters a chance.
MitzaVolchenko 04-30-06, 10:49 AM	So the bottom line is you don't want to correct the fight because it is too much hassle, and therefore we should accept an unfair defeat. Look, in our tactics we counter basically every eventuality Kitty and Liddick can toss at us. The poison? Wake each other. The Bag of Tricks? We are flying. Loddick powerful arrows? Deflect for Khaz and crazy high AC for Korinel. I really believe we have the upper hand in the battle, and we lost only because you allowed Kitty to hit our characters before they can join forces. But fact is he simply can’t do that. This week you ran like 5 battles and one MQ, which no doubt made you a very tired PL and pretty sick of the whole thing. But it is not fair for us to be the victims of PL burnout. If you don’t want to run this fight, please leave it to some other Pitlord. However, you have 15 days to think this over and rerun the battle with the right rules and tactics, if you are sick of it I suggest you to just forget about this fight for a few days. There is plenty of time, after all. I admire your dedication, honestly. I almost burned out myself out of the CoCo the week I had to run two fights. Just two fights. They were long, complex affairs that consumed a lot of time and left me in a poor mood. Unfortunately half the battles in the CoCo are anything but simple, and this is probably a complex one. But please, give our characters a chance. First, watch your tone. If I were burned out or unwilling to edit, I would have told you to stuff it the first time around. I will re-evaluate the movement to be certain that it follows the rules of flight and distance. I ran it through the distance calculator multiple times in the second run, but I will do so again. The fact is that your tactics were poor when it came to being in different starting squares and relying on a fly scroll which did not go off until round 3. I am not one to not give a hail mary chance even at bad odds...please refer to my own Sybil's fights...FFA? No sweat she's toast, but she is gonna have one heck of a fun charge with the rapier before they kill her. So, in lieu of telling you to stuff it, which is what your response evokes in me emotionally, I'll give it another look when I have nothing better to do. I will also have another PL look it over so that it has a second opinion. Thank you for your patience. AND FOR THE RECORD YOU CANNOT BE AT 50' UNLESS YOU CAN MOVE THROUGH SOLID OBJECTS.
Macbrea 04-30-06, 10:50 AM	Calculating distance from [-6, -9, 1] to [-24, -2, 10]: 25 squares (125') And: Calculating distance from [-6, -9, 0] to [-24, -2, 10]: 26 squares (130') You do realize that no character except the burrowers and the ghosts may be at 10 up in the arena? Just a quick look at that. ----------10--------- Ceiling ---- 45' -- 9 ---- 40' -- 8 ---- 35' -- 7 ---- 30' -- 6 ---- 25' -- 5 ---- 20' -- 4 ---- 15' -- 3 ---- 10' -- 2 ----- 5' -- 1 ----- 0' -- 0 ---------- Floor
Mal-2 04-30-06, 11:12 AM	----------10--------- Ceiling ---- 45' -- 9 ---- 40' -- 8 ---- 35' -- 7 ---- 30' -- 6 ---- 25' -- 5 ---- 20' -- 4 ---- 15' -- 3 ---- 10' -- 2 ----- 5' -- 1 ----- 0' -- 0 ---------- Floor I think a lot of people have been reading "the arena is 50' high" to mean that you can achieve a maximum altitude of 50'. I think you're right on a strict reading of the arena description, but I also don't think it usually makes a difference as long and the pitlord is consistent within the fight. (Sorry, I haven't really been following the per-fight commentary this week, so I'm not sure if it's important to a particular fight.)
Erithmu 04-30-06, 11:20 AM	@Mitza: This is a suggestion to you, take and do with it whatever you wish. Don't look at the fight for a few days unless you want to try to get it done before the boards lock down. Then just save a copy to repost when the boards come back up. It's not worth getting 'emotional evoked' @Argaud: Almost the same thing: Just relax and realize that it isn't going to get done soon. This fight shouldn't be something to get so worked up for. I know that Mitza is a very good pitlord to the point where she is almost obsesive compulsive with making sure every thing is correct. A crafted argument with rules defense and SRD references goes far more than a personal attack, and this goes for any PL. That being said:Loddick's shot vs Khaz: agreed defect arrows should work. Kitty's charges: A minor issue would be that Kitty only has to climb to 40 ft since he is still adjacent to Kor at 45ft alititude. Under charge it says clear path and no hindering of movement. I can't find anything under the airel mobility charts to indicate that the movement cost associated with gaining elevation is listed at 'hampered movement.' The entry under charge indicated hampered movement as difficult terrain or obsacles, which I would think normal air is not. Argaud: if you can find a note that states that the movement cost is associated with gaining elevation is infact hampered movement then please let me know, as I have been unable to find it. For all of this discussion I do think that Kitty is unable to charge based on the following information: The double cost of moving upwards is not factored into his charge. So while the distance may be 120ft (from 5ft to 45 ft elevation) 80ft of Kitty's movement must come in the form of rising 40ft and then the remaining 40ish ft is not enough to get over to Kor. What will probably happen is that Kitty may end up gaining elevation on his turn, then charging Khaz, and then charging Kor. Then again I leave that in Mitza's hands
Pittbull 04-30-06, 11:59 AM	You do realize that no character except the burrowers and the ghosts may be at 10 up in the arena? Not fully correct, creatures of small or smaller, can be at altitude 50 too. ;) But your ruling is right, of course. I missed that too. From now on, I won't praticipate on this discussion anymore. I generally don't like to discuss fight-results, speaking, I would prefer a loss than to discuss for ages. Over the last two years, I've seen many of bad pitlordings and delivered a lot by myself too. I have no resentments to you, Mitza, but have to admit that your tone wasn't the nicest too, I can understand Argaud, who is dissapointed. But nevertheless, the main aim on these boards is to have fun. I'm losing my fun on this dicussion at the moment and therefor drop out. I'm glad that the CoCo makes a break. I'm getting really burned out now (for the first time of my membership). Edit: @Erithmu: Thanks a lot for your statement, I agree for the most of it, dispite being able to charge upward while your movement is decreased. But as I said, I have no rule-source for that and might be wrong too. The main reason why we lost this fight was, because of my fault not to buy a scroll of delay poison, which I would have bought, if I had realized that a pseudodragon is in our league.
MitzaVolchenko 04-30-06, 12:31 PM	As I stated, I will go over it again when I have the time to gnaw through it 5' at a time. I will reconsider the elevatioln issue on charging, and perhaps we will get an elder ruling on it. I don't mind people being emotional about things, but anyone who has been around here since before my little technical issue, knows that I don't just decide to slack because I can. I am almost obsessive about fights being run as correctly as I can manage. I ignored the stowing of the bag of tricks as it does not have to be held. It can hang from your belt and drawing an animal out is the same as drawing anything else out of a bag. I will also need to go back and refund Kitty a move action as I forgot to put one of his potions in the off claw. I will re-do this fight again sometime in the next few days. I will post it to the boards for review and save it for final posting after the board issue expires.
MindWandererB 04-30-06, 03:43 PM	Not fully correct, creatures of small or smaller, can be at altitude 50 too. ;) No, they still can't. The ceiling is at 50'. Even a small wall walker with their feet on the ceiling, at the 50' line, has their head at the 45' mark. And altitude is counted from the bottom of the square. This is why I always tell pitlords to have Aerryl fly at 40' altitude--I assume the bat, when flying (and thus horizontal), is less than 10' tall, including with Aerryl on top.
Usurpator 05-01-06, 12:52 PM	Core rules restrict them to once per encounter, not CoCo...read it again. You're right, bad example from me. I hope you did get the point the example was meant to illustrate. On that all I can say is that if you don't like it, don't PL. I accept that fact that I sometimes have to PL fights that I don't find particularly exciting. That doesn't mean it is forbidden or bad for me to state so. I like to state what I enjoyed in a fight, and what I enjoyed less. Your anti-evasion and anti-pixie commentary just means that I suggest anyone with that type of character review your fights line by line to be certain that your dislike and boredom didn't set in and shortchange them. Why would that suggest such to you? I take my task as a Pitlord very seriously, and while I do make errors, you are now suggesting that my errors will be biased. I always take extreme care in avoiding any bias, and usually take several minutes each round to review the options open to each gladiators and rereading tactics, especially at important junctures in a fight, to make sure they each get the optimum chance. You previously asked if I me if had bad experiences with evaders and such, but I now must ask, do you have bad experiences with PL's that you think this? Generally I am pretty amazed at the lack of bias from Pitlords I have seen here in the CoCo. I also don't like the veiled suggestion that I should be biased in these cases. I hope people will judge my Pitlord skills by my actions, not by my opinions about what fights I prefer. I prefer dex builds with stealth and smarts to brute bashers. I always have. That's why I would never ask to have Pixies, Ghosts etc. to be removed from the arena. They are just too cool and fun options to many people (yourself included) to ban, even though they present some difficulties. I can still express my opinion though. I would certainly prefer to avoid PL'ing a Pixie vs. Pixie or Ghost vs. Pixie fight someday. It costs SIX THOUSAND, THREE HUNDRED GOLD AND IS USELESS BEYOND ABOUT ECL6. What is your point? Now its about the equivalent of four super-extended summon monster III potions that cannot be countered by protection spells? Possibly worth 3000 gp. each fight? And I find fighting against a suped up, expendable buffed, one shotter duller than dull. That whole five rounds of buff for one true-striked shot is just plain boring. Not fun to run, not fun to fight against. I agree with you, those types are also a bit boring to me. Less frustrating to PL and easier to write tactics against though. You are correct on his movement, not on his capability. He cannot give me direct images, but he is advanced enough to convey emotionally the threat levels of someone's proximity and has enough of a brain to remember what threat each conveys. Keep up this line of thought, and I will burn a few credits to make a mental midget and send you 50,000 character tactics each time you PL for me. Then we can take this debate to the level of PC rather than picking on my poor wittle birdie. I get the distinct feeling you have been personally offended by my comments, even though you seem to agree that I did at least a fair job Pitlording the fight. If this is true, I apologize. I maybe forceful in my opinion, but it is merely my opinion. I am not picking on anyone or anything, I am just trying to establish a fair approach to handling such things instead and try to inform you ahead of such a thing so you are able to adapt your tactics if neccessary. I was simply commenting that your tactic looked a little too complicated to me on that occasion. If we don't agree we can simply exchange opinions and possible review our own standpoint after hearing the other's story. I consider that to be poor sportsmanship. I won't call anyone on the carpet for it, but unless the tactics say make X waste as many resources as possible, I won't do it. Well, that's your prerogative. You don't like expendable users you say, but I think the only good counter against such people is making them use more than they wanted too. But really, what would you think would happen in a regular game of your local popular sport if the losing team said halfway: "we're quitting, we're not going to win anyway, and this way we are preventing possible injuries from our teammembers." I think their would be a riot in the audience and fans. Whether you play soccer, basketball or baseball, everyone teammember is supposed to try their very best to the end, even if it becomes apparent that one side cannot win. I think giving up (or even quitting) is generally considered poor sportsmanship. Fighting on against hopeless odds is generally considered heroism. Therefore, because Loquan's bolts have no chance to hit me, and he cannot close, then he is not meaningfully interacting with me by shooting at the animals. You see how that works? If you cannot meaningfully interact, you surrender. You are having that slice of cake and eating it to. The ruling has been made that summons and allies, no matter how ineffetive are considered an attempt at meaningful interaction. Anyone else recall the TFH vs. The archer? Whatever, I am done debating this one with ya' Usurp. As I PM'ed you, I found this a difficult rule to adjucate. My characters have won fights because of it, and lost fights because of it, and I am generally unsure how a Pitlord will rule. By your own words, it doesn't matter if Loquan's bolts cannot hit you (anymore than summons cannot affect an opponent) its just the attempt that gives him the meaningfull interaction according to your interpretation. I think an attempt at interaction needs to be effective, and not 'a token effort'. Thanks for PL'ing, and I hope for your sake that you do not get any of my sneak and snipers again. You are sounding like you think that I found it a terrible fight to run? However, I commented that I enjoyed some parts of the fight, and enjoyed other parts less. I think you are taking some things a bit too personally. This probably came because I disagreed and kept disagreeing with you during the discussion afterwards, and it seems I have insulted you somehow by my disagreeing. Once again, I apologize if this is the case. For myself, I can disagree with you just fine and still respect you as a valued member of the CoCo.
MindWandererB 05-01-06, 01:15 PM	There's a difference between fighting to win and fighting to waste as many of your opponent's resources as possible. To me, your sports analogy is less like the difference between finishing a season vs. quitting early to prevent injury, and more like the difference between finishing the season in a sportsmanlike manner vs. playing as brutally as possible to injure members of the opposing team, because since you're losing anyway, it doesn't matter how many red cards/penalty minutes/freethrows/whatever you rack up.
MitzaVolchenko 05-01-06, 02:53 PM	Alright, Usurp, you and I can just keep disagreeing...honestly what got my dander up was the first three PM's that I exchanged with you where I had to defend things that had already been ruled on. That makes me feel like I have someone out to change the rules by depressing the other player into retiring their character. It has happened around here before. I accept that such was not your intention and that you did indeed run a fair fight. In the end it came down to what i knew it would which was, they had too few options to hurt me, and I had too many options to stay out of their way while not breaking the delay rule. Both of us have done our duty by the CoCo and have worked regularly to see to it that this place keeps running. This debate is just a rehash at this point. I think we both know that neither hates the other or is out to get them, and I think we can safely just move on and occasionally exchange good natured taunts and jeers ;) @MindwandererB, you have my full agreement there. Tha footie analogy hits exactly what I was thinking. **************NEW TOPIC************** When we are back up and running, I am going to renew my request that a seperate thread where each PL/QL can have a post about their preferences be created. This gives us a place to put things like what format for tactics is the easiest for us to follow, whether we want tactics via PM or email, what our philosophy for interpretting tactics is, whether we prefer to run fights mapping as we go and which dice roller if any we prefer to use, etc etc etc This would give folks writing tactics for us a chance to see what makes our lives easiest, and those seeking QL's to select one based on more than our quester kill ratio (Anyone else reallly really really miss Telin? I sure do!). Persoanlly, I would like a place to link the quests I have run (though prolly not the fights as that number is a wee bit high at this point) and post what I expect of people. I would also like to put caveats like, if you mean for me to use your unmetioned expendables, tell me that I may. If you want me to burn as many of the other guy's as possible, tell me that. If you want me to totally improvise if your tactics break, tell me that. If you want me to break your buff cycle if things go bad, tell me that I may. In an abundance of caution, and due to past complaints, I won't do any of those things without permission in the tactics. This wouldn't mean that anyone *HAS* to follow prefs, but it is more communication, and that is never a bad thing.
Gonbow 05-03-06, 12:44 PM	@Pitbull & LongArcher My apologizes for not checking this thread enough to give the go-ahead on the rerun; thank you for doing so in my absence Pitbull, I appreciate it. Most of Archer's questions have already been answered, so I wont go into them, but I'd like to say thank you for the congratulations, it is impressive to be gracious in the face of defeat, especially considering your record before this fight. (I was rather upset when Tatyana and Yasha lost for the first time myself)