| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| waywreth04-05-06, 03:57 PM | Editing deadline for this week is already past. Post any comments or concerned for this weeks fights in this thread, be aware of the Rules of Gladius (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448520&origin=), be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't feed the pitlords, and above all, have fun! @Pitlords - If you need me to run a Miniquest, I'm willing. That's an open offer any week. |
| MindWandererB04-05-06, 04:31 PM | Actually, there's still about half an hour left to do character updates. Us Americanos get an extra hour due to Daylight Savings time. |
| waywreth04-05-06, 04:40 PM | Actually, there's still about half an hour left to do character updates. Us Americanos get an extra hour due to Daylight Savings time. Good point, I must have looked at British summer time instead of GMT. And you have about 15 minutes left to edit... |
| Pitlords04-05-06, 06:27 PM | Pairings done There's still one fight left for the taking: Shaz Greatheart (Dracazar) vs. Auburn (Vathelokai) : XXXXX Credit Changes: +8: Caterane +6: King Uther +3: DSugui +2: Argaud, Gonbow, Mindwanderer, Sauro, Stonetree, NiQil, Myrridin, Malither +1: Abyssalstalker, CptStrong, Erithmu, Mysticmonk, Skojar, Vathelokai, Sindorin, Waywreth +0: Turin, Zevox -1: Dracazar, Lonewolf, Kaigan, Stormwind, Magister -3: Huan For those who haven't read it, you can play some undead characters from now on. |
| Zevox04-05-06, 06:33 PM | Marcus Tallfellow (Macbrea) vs. Archdevil Asran (Zevox) : Argaud You know, somehow, I knew this was going to happen. The EHTC's only two arena-active members get paired up with each other :twitch: . Well, at least we know we'll get one winner's share of the gold, anyway. @ My Pitlords - Tactics for most of my characters should be coming tomorrow afternoon. One or two may be sent today, but that'll depend on how fast I get a certain essay written up. @ StoneTree & Ariel23 - Burglary info for Featylec is irrelevant - Riana has nothing to steal :weep: . @ MysticMonk2005 & SauroGrenom - As long as I've got the tactics by the deadline you're AOK. Saturday's my best chance to run this one. Zevox |
| Dracazar04-05-06, 06:38 PM | Barthleby (Pittbull) vs. Unknown Monster : Dracazar Wow! My first Pitlording with a Monster! and it is EL8! Pittbull I'm sorry for you but Barthleby should pay attention to my monsters! :devil: |
| SoulLord04-05-06, 06:41 PM | @Zevox... that is unless both get held over for a couple of weeks :) A team monster fight! *looks at vandelar knowledage skills* not good not good *looks at telveran knowledage skills* whew at least we'll get some basic info on what we'll be fighting. this monster fights are getting tougher and tougher. |
| waywreth04-05-06, 06:57 PM | Loquan Dar'ath (waywreth) miniquests to become a thrallherd: Waywreth [Miniquest] Anyone care to trade miniquests with me? I can't do a MQ for my own PC. This one should be easy, I just want a rather basic ECL3 to establish my connection with my soon to be Thrall and Believers. Also - Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Perius (Ravashack) : Abyssal Stalker [Week 2] was left in the pairings by mistake. That fight was completed already (Gaston won). Gaston is also correctly paired in the EL7 league). |
| Ariel2304-05-06, 07:10 PM | @ StoneTree & Ariel23 - Burglary info for Featylec is irrelevant - Riana has nothing to steal :weep: .Actually if you could take out her laundry while you're there, that would be super. |
| lonewolf04-05-06, 07:16 PM | :heehee @Dsgui: tactics for Finrod have been sent. |
| Pitlords04-05-06, 07:19 PM | New pairings: Loquan Dar'ath (waywreth) miniquests to become a thrallherd: King Uther [Miniquest] The Harvester (Caterane) miniquests to hunt a nightmare: Waywreth [Miniquest] |
| TheMagister04-05-06, 08:17 PM | @Gonbow - tactics for TWH vs. Perius sent via PM. May the dice be kinder than they were to Sdentch last week. This week. Nevermind. TM |
| Erithmu04-05-06, 09:04 PM | I'll take Shaz vs Auburn ... Vath and Drac send me tactics @Pitlords: Ignatius vs Maeril . could we get a repairing or a monster fight as we are brothers in arms in CEF? |
| NiQil04-05-06, 09:24 PM | @Cat: Any chance of getting Famine paired...even in a monster fight? His fight vs Terminus Est was posted so close to pairings I had no chance to update him as I was at work. I can update him fairly quickly, or even pair him as is, if you would prefer I not adjust him. |
| Turin04-05-06, 09:40 PM | Donak (Mal-2) vs Unknown Monster: Turin [ECL7] setup has been posted and the monster rolled. Mal, see the Battles post to see what you've got to face. Alas, your knowledge skills did you no good here. :evillaugh |
| Zevox04-05-06, 10:47 PM | Actually if you could take out her laundry while you're there, that would be super. Featylec? Touch someone else's laundry? Hes far too polite (to non-Orcs) for that! (And before it gets asked, no, he doesn't consider breaking into someone's home before a fight to steal expendibles impolite - he considers it a tactical advantage. He does, after all, worship the Goddess of Strategy and Tactics.) @ StoneTree - Tactics for Featylec Elendi (vs Riana Dreambinder) have been PMed. He would've sent flowers to her and her relatives as a condolance, but the Temple of the Red Knight hes been recovering from those lucky Orcs' strikes in doesn't have any to spare (those he got were all to lovely to go giving away, especially at the risk of hurting one of his friends' feelings ;) ). @ CaptainStrong - Tactics for Eraca Moralta (vs Dr. Hexacious Pogboomer) have been PMed. Lets see which sneak-diviner can carry the day - will it be the Goblin or the Elf? Eraca didn't send flowers, but those half-chewed Goblin eyeballs she took from Lumbë last week should get the message across, eh? ;) Zevox |
| waywreth04-05-06, 11:21 PM | @Cat - The miniquest (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=616740) for the Harvester is up and ready for you. edit: Now you see why I try not to post at midnight. |
| Zevox04-05-06, 11:24 PM | @Cat - The miniquest (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7815237) for the Harvester is up and ready for you. Nice "miniquest". Very interesting name it has - where have I seen that one before? ;) Zevox |
| SauroGrenom04-05-06, 11:59 PM | @Pitlords: Ignatius vs Maeril . could we get a repairing or a monster fight as we are brothers in arms in CEF? I've asked for simular things and been denied, so you are not going to get a new paring. It kind of sucks from a guild perspective when you have members pared wtih eachother. Make it into a RP opportunity to play out some kind of argument. |
| NiQil04-06-06, 12:45 AM | You think that's bad...4 out of the 5 active WAR members this week are fighting each other....Lissa vs Kracknol and Valek vs War. @ SauroGrenom: Tactics for War sent via PM @ anyone: pending Cat's approval, anyone up for running a monster fight for Famine? I couldn't set him ready because the fight was posted while I was at work, but I would love to get him active this week if at all possible... |
| Zevox04-06-06, 01:03 AM | Well, good to see that the EHTC isn't the only one suffering from intra-guild pairings at least ;) . Zevox |
| MindWandererB04-06-06, 01:16 AM | @DSugui and Argaud: Tactics have been sent via PM. One will be straightforward and shouldn't take you too long, the other... is not and will not. Mea culpa. @Erithmu and Usurpator: What a coincidence, I have only two active characters and one fight to pitlord, and I get to fight one character of each of you, and pitlord a fight between another one each. Play nice or else... just kidding. Besides, I usually run my fights early. |
| Erithmu04-06-06, 01:20 AM | RE: inter guild fight: duely noted ... @MindwandererB: Tactics normally get done Thursday afternoon ... And I hope the tactics that are not straight forward are against me. |
| MysticMonk200504-06-06, 01:47 AM | @Gonbow & Zevox: Tactics for Lissa and Tueor sent via PM. I'll take either the open pairing or run a monster fight for NiQil(if it gets ok'd). |
| Ariel2304-06-06, 02:22 AM | @Skojar Most annoying tactics ever sent! But only because Knowledge skills are the most annoying houserule ever. @Stonetree I'll get tactics to you for Riana soon (I hope--it's a busy week). If I don't, send me an email (better than PM) and then use my default tactics if you have to. @Unknown Monster Your character building skills are inferior. You make suboptimal choices. No one likes your mother except for those who have slept with her, which I believe is everyone. You will not last 10 rounds against Evaine, unless you hide, in which case the delay penalty will be invoked and she will kill you in Round 11. You had better bring friends (and there is a 45% chance that you will). I hope that you own very nice things which are nicer than the things which I own, because after Evaine defeats you, she will take them. And then she will own them! |
| Pittbull04-06-06, 02:54 AM | Wow! My first Pitlording with a Monster! and it is EL8! Pittbull I'm sorry for you but Barthleby should pay attention to my monsters! :devil: He'll be aware, for sure. Would you give me a hint, please. |
| Dracazar04-06-06, 04:23 AM | Barthleby (Pittbull) vs Unknown (Monster): Dracazar [ECL8] |
| Caterane04-06-06, 05:42 AM | @Erithmu: Sorry but I cannot take inter-guild relations into consideration too. That's just too much. I also don't think that you should be immune to some gladiators just because you're in the same guild. @NiQil: Sorry but I have no pitlords left. @Dracazar: You gave much away in the monster fight. Barthleby has no knowledges about it so it's just size and very rough description. With very rough I mean that you should still have a many opponents to chose from but enough to write at least tactics against. In a regular D&D game, I agree that you have the most basic knowledges automatically available, like large humanoid with wolves which can be everything among the thousands of creatures in all the various monster books and homebrew sources. Here in the coco however, we have a very limited list. By just telling the number, size and type you can narrow it down to 1-3 opponents. Because of that we have to be very careful to how much information you give away. On a related note, I thought about dropping the knowledge requirements from DcX +HD to DcX +CR. This makes it easier to get information. A 20HD zombie has only CR 6 for example. Based on HD, you'd get no information at our current levels. |
| Dracazar04-06-06, 05:57 AM | @Caterane: Yes, I saw wrong in the skill rules, description edited. It seems that Erithmu took Shaz vs Auburn |
| DarthVegan04-06-06, 06:56 AM | @DSugui Tactics for Micah vs. Leets sent via PM. |
| Pittbull04-06-06, 08:18 AM | @Caterane: Yes, I saw wrong in the skill rules, description edited. It seems that Erithmu took Shaz vs Auburn No problem, I was not able to read the first discription. I'll start writing the tactic now. @Lonwolf: KazzzAHM's tactic has been sent via PM this morning. |
| Vathelokai04-06-06, 08:36 AM | I'll take Shaz vs Auburn ... Vath and Drac send me tactics Tactics for Auburn vs. Shaz sent. |
| waywreth04-06-06, 09:02 AM | @Erithmu - Tactics for Gaston sent for Leif Goldeneye (Sunwolf) vs. Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) : Erithmu |
| Erithmu04-06-06, 09:22 AM | @Vath: tactics recieved @Waywreth: tactics recieved I have half of two fights and I think I'm going to have my hands full this weekend. @Sunwolf & Dracazar: Sooner the better. @Cat: Fair enough arguement. It was not a measure of trying to get out, I was just unaware that you had dropped that. |
| Macbrea04-06-06, 09:37 AM | @Argaud: Marcus' Tactics have been sent. |
| DSugui04-06-06, 09:46 AM | @ MysticMonk2005: Tactics for Dronnar sent by email @SauroGrenom: Tactics for Valek sent by PM @lonewolf: Tactics for Finrod received @MindWandererB: Tactics for Sunstroke received @DarthVegan: Tactics for Micah received |
| Pittbull04-06-06, 09:52 AM | @Dracazar: Tactic for Barthleby has been sent via E-Mail. Thank you! |
| Myrridin04-06-06, 09:56 AM | Raskos has (surprisingly) completed Ever Expanding Intellect...though to his great sorrow he lost his faithful familiar Scathers to a cleric's Death Domain ability. Still, congratulations on completing the quest Raskos. |
| Turin04-06-06, 10:01 AM | Question about monster fights, because is the first one I'm pitlording: I'm not sure how/when to assign treasure to monsters in a Monster Fight. Let's suppose we have monsters with a CR3 in a fight for each of the examples below. Which ones get 2500gp worth of NPC gear? (My current understanding/best guess in bold after each one.) 1. A CR3 non-humanoid monster with Treasure listed in the SRD as None. (No) 2. A CR3 non-humanoid monster with Treasure listed in the SRD as Standard. (No?) 3. A CR3 humanoid monster with Treasure listed in the SRD as None. (No) 4. A CR3 humanoid monster with Treasure listed in the SRD as Standard, who has typical equipment listed in the monster's description. (Yes, but less the equipment listed?) 5. A CR3 humanoid monster with Treasure listed in the SRD as Standard, who has no equipment listed in the monster's description. (Yes) And my understanding is that the gear given to the monster has no effect on the rewards given to the gladiator, which are standard, correct? |
| Sunwolf04-06-06, 10:53 AM | On a related note, I thought about dropping the knowledge requirements from DcX +HD to DcX +CR. This makes it easier to get information. A 20HD zombie has only CR 6 for example. Based on HD, you'd get no information at our current levels. I think that this is a good idea. At higher ECLs the HD of creatures tends to outstrip their CR very quickly. easy examples are giants and dragons |
| Turin04-06-06, 11:07 AM | @ CaptainStrong: tactics for Dr. Hexacious Pogboomer sent. Probably another loss for the good doctor, but maybe just this once I'll be able to pull it off! |
| SoulLord04-06-06, 11:21 AM | Quick doubt... The dungeon map used in monster fights has the following legend - for Monster Fights up to ECL 10 - And well two cr 9 monsters add up to an ECL 11 encounter so is Hopefully another map used? and if so which one? or are Vandelar and Telveran stuck in the dungeon map |
| Dracazar04-06-06, 11:50 AM | @Abyssal Stalker: Quesis's tactic sent @lonewolf: Drac's tactic sent @DSugui: Uilo's is questing @Erithmu: Shaz's tactic sent @Pittbull: Barthleby's tactic received @Monster: Tactic and Equipment received :D |
| SoulLord04-06-06, 12:49 PM | @caterane tactics for Vandelar the red in monster fight sent. |
| waywreth04-06-06, 01:28 PM | Anyone know when King Uther is due back? He has half a dozen MQs waiting for him, including one of my characters. |
| Sindorin04-06-06, 01:42 PM | He sent me a message implying that he wanted me to finish those quests before he left... but there are so many of them that I don't know what I should do to help. He did not say when he would be back. I don't think it would be right to just jump in and throw encounters at people on their miniquest threads... so I decided not to throw ghost pixies at everyone. |
| Erithmu04-06-06, 03:05 PM | All tactics recieved .. Fights will be run in due time think Friday afternoonish. @Lonewolf: Tactics for Loddick @Argaud: Tactics for Sola Sent @MindwandererB: Tactics for Ignatius sent - please please PM me back if you have questions I know they are odd |
| Sunwolf04-06-06, 03:14 PM | @caterane tactics for Telveran in team monster fight sent by PM |
| Zevox04-06-06, 03:26 PM | @ Gonbow - Tactics for Destra Stormwind (vs Tueor) have been PMed. That should be an interesting fight - could go either way, depending on how the dice fall. @ MysticMonk2005 & SauroGrenom - Tactics for Lissa and Kracknol recieved. The fight should be up either tomorrow or saturday (more likely saturday). Zevox |
| Ariel2304-06-06, 05:57 PM | @Caterane @Dracazar: You gave much away in the monster fight. Barthleby has no knowledges about it so it's just size and very rough description. With very rough I mean that you should still have a many opponents to chose from but enough to write at least tactics against. Can you please add in "number" to the Knowledge skill chart of information given? Even if we can't count without Knowledge (Nature), this is not listed anywhere, so we don't know when to give out that information. Writing tactics for one opponent is drastically different from writing them for multiple. Writing for 1 and 2 and 3 and 4-8 is a pain in the neck. @stonetree Tactics for Riana sent |
| Salrantol04-06-06, 05:57 PM | @StoneTree: Tactics sent for Enoch the Prophet via PM. |
| funnymanmike04-06-06, 06:16 PM | @ king uther: tactics sent via pm |
| Dracazar04-06-06, 07:24 PM | Barthleby (Pittbull) vs Unknown (Monster): Dracazar [ECL8] done |
| Erithmu04-06-06, 08:08 PM | Shaz vs Auburn is up. Someone's tactics worked exactly according to plan. |
| Argaud04-06-06, 08:31 PM | @Macbrea - I have Marcus' tactics. @Erithmu - I have Sola's tactics. @MindWandererB - I have Aerryl's tactics. @Zevox - Pending tactics for Asran. @MysticMonk2005 - Tactics for Korinel sent. They are long, they are detailed, but deep down they are pretty simple. Or at least I hope they are :-) Edit: I have Asran's tactics. |
| lonewolf04-06-06, 08:46 PM | all tactics recieved. I will try to do one fight tomorrow and the other sometime on the weekend. |
| Zevox04-06-06, 09:18 PM | @ Argaud - Tactics for Archdevil Asran PMed. The battle of the EHTC can begin whenever you're ready. Assassin vs (future) Blackguard - should be interesting to see whos dirty tactics carry the day ;) . Zevox |
| TheMagister04-06-06, 09:29 PM | Shaz vs Auburn is up. Someone's tactics worked exactly according to plan. Oh, man. That's just WRONG. I hate polymorph. TM |
| Zevox04-06-06, 09:57 PM | @ Erithmu - Actually, Shaz makes squat for his Guild. The CEF ran out of fancy rooms for ECL 7+ folks, so Shaz's current tax rate is 0%. Check right here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7627873&postcount=3) for confirmation of that. Zevox |
| Sindorin04-06-06, 10:02 PM | Auburn's Invisible Remorhaz Ambush (not to be confused with Aranor's Flying Twin Remorhaz Strike) :rofl: |
| Vathelokai04-07-06, 01:55 AM | Oh, man. That's just WRONG. I hate polymorph. TM Yeah. I generaly prefer not to do the remorhaz thing, but the high charisma paladin with over 200 hp is a tough nut to crack. |
| TheMagister04-07-06, 02:49 AM | Yeah. I generaly prefer not to do the remorhaz thing, but the high charisma paladin with over 200 hp is a tough nut to crack. I shouldn't really spout off like that. The most broken part or two broken parts of the RAW won in that duel. Vigor = broken. Polymorph chain of spells = broken a little more. =) TM |
| Pittbull04-07-06, 04:42 AM | done @Drac: In round 11 you rolled for concentration, the result was 15. Barthleby has mod for concentration of +15. So the first damage wouldn't break the casting. You still need to roll the second conetration-check (1d20+15) against DC26. I think you combined the damage of the whole round and so the check failed, but you need to roll for every separate damage. If Barth makes to save, the swarm will apear and Barth doesn't need to become visible, since the wolfs aren't intellegent, they might attack the swarm too. Sorry for not fixing my sheet, I had a pretty busy week, it won't happen again. If I'm wrong with my ruling, I say sorry, but I'm pretty sure that I'm right, you can't combine damage from different sources for a single check. Oh yeah, and thanks for running the fight so quickly. |
| Dracazar04-07-06, 05:12 AM | Polymorphing a TINY creature to HUGE in less than 6 seconds, It obviously broken... @Pittbull: I'll double check the Concentration issue and roll the dice |
| Pittbull04-07-06, 05:17 AM | @Pittbull: I'll double check the Concentration issue and roll the dice Thanks a lot, perhaps I'm lucky and Barth make the check, then the fight can go the other way, since Barthley can stay invisible and avoid the the oponents with his better movement. |
| Dracazar04-07-06, 05:31 AM | It says "If more than one type of distraction is present, make a check for each one", I thank that you are right (I thought that for a 1-round action the damage was cumulative). The DC is 10+2(Spell Level)+Damage: So 1st check at DC 10+2+13=25 and you already rolled 1d20+15=30 (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=147#4591) and 2nd check at DC 10+2+16=28 and you rolled (cross fingers) 1d20+15=28 (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=147#4658) I think you won :D |
| Vathelokai04-07-06, 05:35 AM | Polymorphing a TINY creature to HUGE in less than 6 seconds, It obviously broken... Honestly I don't think it's the spell that's broken. I think it is the low HD of the Remorhaz for it's power level. Look at other polymorph forms... hydra is the second most powerfull, but Shaz could take down a 22 hp non regenerating hydra. Same situation with wyvern. The oozes are even easier to hit though they have constricting powers.... I say the spells fine, it's the Remorhaz that's broken. |
| Dracazar04-07-06, 06:59 AM | I have a question about Monster Fight The equipment of the monster is a general equipment or is an equipment specialized for the arena fight versus the foe? The Monster known the opponent equipment and could buy items good versus the target character? @Pitbull: Please don't think bad, I would only be sure to do things well, you are wise and should notice that a 2nd level spell granted 8000 gp :D |
| Pittbull04-07-06, 08:00 AM | I have a question about Monster Fight The equipment of the monster is a general equipment or is an equipment specialized for the arena fight versus the foe? The Monster known the opponent equipment and could buy items good versus the target character? @Pitbull: Please don't think bad, I would only be sure to do things well, you are wise and should notice that a 2nd level spell granted 8000 gp :D The monster doesn't know, what it'll face, unless it has the knowledge-skill ;). Therefor, they have no specialized equipment against the foe. Are you sure that the reward it that high? I'll calculate them too, later, after my first patients this afternoon. |
| Usurpator04-07-06, 08:09 AM | I say the spells fine, it's the Remorhaz that's broken. That funny. I don't think low HD monsters with good abilities should be disallowed just because of the existence of Polymorph. Any spell that gives you +16 Str, +8 Con, +8 natural armor, +8 Grapple etc. etc. is (when compared to other spells) overpowered for 4th lvl. I don't think I would allow 'Remorhaz shape' if the spell allowed you to take the form of a Remorhaz only. Polymorph does not only that, but gives you extra flexibility too! I have sure had my fun in our regular tabletop games with Polymorph. It allowed my wizard to slug it out next to the fighters and still blast his enemies with spells whenever convenient. We did have a house rule that restricted Polymorph to Monster Manual creatures, but it was still too much. When we cast it on one of our fighters, it just became silly. The big monsters could barely hit the guy, and he did tons of damage in return. Never saw a more powerful 4th lvl buff. And you should have seen the DM's face when I suggested to turn into a Rust Monster in 'Lord of the Iron Fortress'. In short, to keep on the good side of the DM, I use it only sparingly in our games, and largely for fun. I like to see it continue to be used in the CoCo as well, but I think Remorhaz grapple is boring. Turning the familiar in a Remorhaz was a nice touch. But it illustrates another weakness of the CoCo when it comes to flexible spells: its almost impossible to write good tactics against. |
| Usurpator04-07-06, 08:14 AM | Seeing the idotic amount of gp. Barthleby gets in comparison to the XP, I once again ask if the current rule could be revised. |
| Dracazar04-07-06, 08:51 AM | @All: about Polymorph: It is obviously broken. Yes Remorhaz is really powerful but I agree with Usurpator: I don't think low HD monsters with good abilities should be disallowed just because of the existence of Polymorph. What I say is that it is broken the size change. This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form. Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal the subject further). If slain, the subject reverts to its original form, though it remains dead. The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities. Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action. Material Component: An empty cocoon. You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself. You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack). You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels. If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components. You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal. You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth. You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype. You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check. When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form. It IS NOT written that you could use any size. Yes, I know that Skip Williams in RotG affirms this: The assumed form's size can be anything from Fine to Colossal. The kind of creature you choose for the assumed form determines the size. The subject becomes the same size as an average member of its kind. For example, if you turn the subject into a troll, the subject becomes size Large, which is the standard size for a troll But I don't deduce this rule from the RAW and I think the size limit could be a good mitigating factor. :twocents: |
| Mal-204-07-06, 08:54 AM | @Turin: Donak's tactics for his monster fight sent. |
| Sunwolf04-07-06, 09:07 AM | It says "If more than one type of distraction is present, make a check for each one", I thank that you are right (I thought that for a 1-round action the damage was cumulative). The DC is 10+2(Spell Level)+Damage: So 1st check at DC 10+2+13=25 and you already rolled 1d20+15=30 (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=147#4591) and 2nd check at DC 10+2+16=28 and you rolled (cross fingers) 1d20+15=28 (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=147#4658) I think you won :D Just playing devil's advocate here. The giant and wolves don't have to beat the swarm, they have to beat Barthelby. The swarm is only 10x10 == affecting at most 4 large opponents and possibly as few as 1 each round. The wolves have scent and can follow Barthelby around for quite a while. In addition, the swarm has duration conc +2 rounds -- a hit by one of the wolves or giant with location help from the wolves could disrupt the concentration, forcing melee combat. I am not saying that the result will be different but while the wolves are still around Barthelby still has chance of losing. Once the giant is the only one left and the swarm is still running, Barthelby will clearly win. As to the rewards, this fight is versus an EC7 + (6*ECL3 = ECL8) is nearly an ECL 10 encounter for a ECL8 gladiatior !! |
| Ravashack04-07-06, 09:33 AM | Perius's Tactics emailed to Gonbow. |
| Abyssal Stalker04-07-06, 09:45 AM | Just playing devil's advocate here. The giant and wolves don't have to beat the swarm, they have to beat Barthelby. The swarm is only 10x10 == affecting at most 4 large opponents and possibly as few as 1 each round. The wolves have scent and can follow Barthelby around for quite a while. In addition, the swarm has duration conc +2 rounds -- a hit by one of the wolves or giant with location help from the wolves could disrupt the concentration, forcing melee combat. I am not saying that the result will be different but while the wolves are still around Barthelby still has chance of losing. Once the giant is the only one left and the swarm is still running, Barthelby will clearly win. As to the rewards, this fight is versus an EC7 + (6*ECL3 = ECL8) is nearly an ECL 10 encounter for a ECL8 gladiatior !! The same thing hit me too! I don't see this as an auto-win when the swarm pops out of thin air. I have always thought that the loser is the one who first gets dropped. Say, for example, would you suggest that a barbarian looses in this scenario: Round x: Barbarian 1/60 hp, rage (+12hp, 2 rounds left) Foe 7/50 B hits F for 8 damage. Round x+1: Barbarian 1/60 hp, rage (+12hp, 1 round left) Foe -1/50, dying B shouts out a warcry! Round x+2: Barbarian -10/60, dead Foe -2/50, dying B drops dead. Yep, with dead I mean stone-dead. Who won? It seems to me that the barbarian, but on the other hand, the Barbarian is more dead than the foe... |
| Pittbull04-07-06, 09:52 AM | Just playing devil's advocate here. The giant and wolves don't have to beat the swarm, they have to beat Barthelby. The swarm is only 10x10 == affecting at most 4 large opponents and possibly as few as 1 each round. The wolves have scent and can follow Barthelby around for quite a while. In addition, the swarm has duration conc +2 rounds -- a hit by one of the wolves or giant with location help from the wolves could disrupt the concentration, forcing melee combat. I am not saying that the result will be different but while the wolves are still around Barthelby still has chance of losing. Once the giant is the only one left and the swarm is still running, Barthelby will clearly win. As to the rewards, this fight is versus an EC7 + (6*ECL3 = ECL8) is nearly an ECL 10 encounter for a ECL8 gladiatior !! What should interrupt Barthleby's concetration? He is invisible and has a fly-speed of 90ft (good), the wolves need to use the move action to detect him, he doesn't get AoOs, because of his concealment when he leave their threatening zones. OK, it takes long, but they have no chance to harm the swarm and I guess a pack of wolves would first fight something which attacks them and not a flying, invisible outsider. They are only animals. |
| Caterane04-07-06, 10:16 AM | Dracazar asked me to calculate the rewards for him so they are correct. The reason why it is that high an EL is that Drac rolled a 90+ on the first roll which means that you have to roll again on the next higher table. There he rolled above average wolves, maximum actually, which also adds to the rewards. Finally, Barthleby is of lower level than the encounter so he gains naturally more XP according to the regular XP table on p38. |
| Sunwolf04-07-06, 10:45 AM | What should interrupt Barthleby's concetration? He is invisible and has a fly-speed of 90ft (good), the wolves need to use the move action to detect him, he doesn't get AoOs, because of his concealment when he leave their threatening zones. OK, it takes long, but they have no chance to harm the swarm and I guess a pack of wolves would first fight something which attacks them and not a flying, invisible outsider. They are only animals. Oops didn't realize your speed was so high. Since the map is so small, smart opponents would spread out and likely catch Barthelby in the scent range of at least one wolf and have that be the finder while that others attack if they can reach. However, dumb animals and a not to bright giant wouldn't come up with that kind of plan. Point conceded. With nearly twice the movement of the opponents on a single movement, and dumb opponents -- Barthelby should be able to keep away from them while the swarm does its work. |
| Argaud04-07-06, 11:15 AM | The first 5 rounds of Sola vs. Aerryl are posted. As usual, I’d like to know if anyone can see any mistake, so I don’t have to correct them when more rounds have passed. I am particularly concerned about the dynamics of readying. Aerryl readies a spell, so her initiative gets adjusted to Sola. But since she has higher dexterity, she still acts before Sola does the next round. Is this correct? Because that forces Sola to do 2 saves vs. Entangle in a row, which is a bit weird (although he passes both). |
| Erithmu04-07-06, 11:32 AM | The first 5 rounds of Sola vs. Aerryl are posted. As usual, I’d like to know if anyone can see any mistake, so I don’t have to correct them when more rounds have passed. I am particularly concerned about the dynamics of readying. Aerryl readies a spell, so her initiative gets adjusted to Sola. But since she has higher dexterity, she still acts before Sola does the next round. Is this correct? Because that forces Sola to do 2 saves vs. Entangle in a row, which is a bit weird (although he passes both). It's looking good, Although I'll say this again (only because it happened last week), nowhere in the description do Pearls of power say they have to be held, they recover the spells as move actions. I wont make any more comments till the fight is finished ... -Rith |
| Mal-204-07-06, 11:46 AM | It's looking good, Although I'll say this again (only because it happened last week), nowhere in the description do Pearls of power say they have to be held, they recover the spells as move actions. You mean a standard action, right? Just like all other command-word activated magic items? |
| Erithmu04-07-06, 11:53 AM | You mean a standard action, right? Just like all other command-word activated magic items? Yes I do ... sorry just kinda woke up and typed without turning the brain on. |
| Argaud04-07-06, 11:58 AM | You mean a standard action, right? Just like all other command-word activated magic items? Yes, there is no doubt it is a standard action. But Erithmu has a point about where the Pearls of Power need to be to be used. I am assuming a character needs at least touch the pearl to activate it. And since nowhere is said where Sola had the Pearl, I am assuming an ‘easily accessible container’ and making pulling them take the same than pulling a wand (which is other kind of command-activated magical item). If Sola has the pearls set in a necklace around the neck, under the armor, it might be argued he doesn't need to spend a second to reach them. But that is not in his write-up ;) |
| Macbrea04-07-06, 12:00 PM | Here is a silly question. If a character is swallowed by another character can he administer a potion to the person he is within? As it only requires the other person swallow the potion. |
| SoulLord04-07-06, 12:22 PM | Here is a silly question. If a character is swallowed by another character can he administer a potion to the person he is within? As it only requires the other person swallow the potion. Tough question Assuming you are under the grapple condition while swalled no if you assume you are not grappled while swallowed yes |
| Usurpator04-07-06, 12:43 PM | Dracazar asked me to calculate the rewards for him so they are correct. The reason why it is that high an EL is that Drac rolled a 90+ on the first roll which means that you have to roll again on the next higher table. There he rolled above average wolves, maximum actually, which also adds to the rewards. Finally, Barthleby is of lower level than the encounter so he gains naturally more XP according to the regular XP table on p38. I understand the rule perfectly. And I am not complaining about the XP at all, I am complaining about the XP/gp. ratio, which it a *big* factor here in the CoCo. If you don't agree with this, the please remove the custom CoCo rule that you get a gold penalty too if you get an XP penalty for multi-classing. Because there a rule is instated to precisely prevent the problem I mention. If you don't know how to properly calculate gp. for a match that is not equal to your ECL or against multiple opponents, don't worry, I have a system already worked out. And its not any more complicated than the current system. |
| Erithmu04-07-06, 12:50 PM | Odd question: .... If a caster/manifest has his primary casting/manifesting stat lowered during the course of a fight ... does it change the following: yes or no? 1) max pp/SL 2) current pp/SL Ex: Start: 16/23pp ... lose two int ...A) 16/23-int change in pp ...B) 16-int change/23-int change |
| Erithmu04-07-06, 01:22 PM | Gaston vs Leif is up Beatings ... Beatings .. and more Beatings |
| Sunwolf04-07-06, 01:24 PM | Odd question: .... If a caster/manifest has his primary casting/manifesting stat lowered during the course of a fight ... does it change the following: yes or no? 1) max pp/SL 2) current pp/SL Ex: Start: 16/23pp ... lose two int ...A) 16/23-int change in pp ...B) 16-int change/23-int change I would rule that both current and max would get lowered however the 1/3 rule would still apply -- ie only 1/3 of the loss occurs to each. Just my opinion though. Comments on Leif vs Gaston: Fight looks good. Leif hasn't had much luck vs kineticists. Congrats to Gaston. It might have been a bit more interesting if Leif had been able to kill the psicrystal. Who would put on the manacles? I suppose Gaston could have Leif CDG himself. Readying on manifesting would work if he doesn't hide his displays. |
| Zevox04-07-06, 01:29 PM | Odd question: .... If a caster/manifest has his primary casting/manifesting stat lowered during the course of a fight ... does it change the following: yes or no? 1) max pp/SL 2) current pp/SL Ex: Start: 16/23pp ... lose two int ...A) 16/23-int change in pp ...B) 16-int change/23-int change I would rule that, if it is temporary drain, no change occurs (just as with increasing it using a temporary ability such as Animal Affinity or Fox's Cunning doesn't increase your available pp). If its permanent drain, however (well, permanent until the Nimbus restores it of course ;) ), I'd reduce it. Thats just my take though. Zevox |
| DSugui04-07-06, 01:31 PM | Odd question: .... If a caster/manifest has his primary casting/manifesting stat lowered during the course of a fight ... does it change the following: yes or no? 1) max pp/SL 2) current pp/SL Ex: Start: 16/23pp ... lose two int ...A) 16/23-int change in pp ...B) 16-int change/23-int change If you don't get extra pp/spells for increased stat (like Fox Cunning) you shouldn't lose any for decreased stat... |
| Sunwolf04-07-06, 01:50 PM | @erithmu and wayreth Fyi -- The psicrystal get the same base saves + ability mods as its owner but not the effects of items. In Gaston's case his psicrystal does not benefit from Gaston's cloak of resistance. |
| waywreth04-07-06, 02:14 PM | @erithmu and wayreth - The psicrystal get the same base saves + ability mods as its owner but not the effects of items. In Gaston's case his psicrystal does not benefit from Gaston's cloak of resistance. I actually knew that, but forgot to update the sheet accordingly. I will do so for the future. Also - great tactic. I was expecting the buff and hide so I didn't want to play fireball tag if you were fully buffed. In retrospect, a cold based energy missle or 3 would've been a better option for Gaston. I look forward to meeting you on a field of battle again someday. Thanks for running it Erithmu. |
| Argaud04-07-06, 04:35 PM | Aerryl vs. Sola, the battle of the archer/priests, has finished and is posted here. Archery duels are a bit tedious, but compared with the fight last week, this one was a walk. |
| Erithmu04-07-06, 05:36 PM | Aerryl vs. Sola, the battle of the archer/priests, has finished and is posted here. Archery duels are a bit tedious, but compared with the fight last week, this one was a walk. Thank you for running the fight It was cleanly run, and I got some bad dice rolls at the end with entangle (that and I dont think you accounted for the dex penalty when you were running the escapes) I do disagree with your ruling on blacklight. The spell descript states that there is no visiblity into the area except for the caster, I think that gives me the feeling of sniping from cover and would therefore deny Aerryl her dex bonus to my attacks. (I didn't look to see if any of the hits would have mad a difference.) |
| Argaud04-07-06, 05:53 PM | The spell descript states that there is no visiblity into the area except for the caster, I think that gives me the feeling of sniping from cover and would therefore deny Aerryl her dex bonus to my attacks. (I didn't look to see if any of the hits would have mad a difference.) But snipping does not deny the target any dex bonus, does it? |
| Gonbow04-07-06, 06:03 PM | But snipping does not deny the target any dex bonus, does it? Yes, it does. That's the whole point of sniping. The target is not aware of the attack before it hits them and thus, are denied their dexterity bonus. |
| Argaud04-07-06, 07:56 PM | Yes, it does. That's the whole point of sniping. The target is not aware of the attack before it hits them and thus, are denied their dexterity bonus. I thought the point of sniping was to be able to shot people without them knowing where you are (thusly avoiding retaliation). I have been unable to find any reference to characters being able to use snipe to deny dexterity bonus. Please, point me to the pertinent paragraph in the SRD or handbook. |
| Turin04-07-06, 10:24 PM | Donak (Mal-2) vs Unknown Monster: Turin [ECL7] setup has been posted and the monster rolled. Mal, see the Battles post to see what you've got to face. Alas, your knowledge skills did you no good here. :evillaughThe fight is up! Mal-2, I think based on your tactics you might have forgotten that the monster fights are in the dungeon, because quarters are pretty close in there. But... well, you'll see. |
| Zevox04-07-06, 10:44 PM | I thought the point of sniping was to be able to shot people without them knowing where you are (thusly avoiding retaliation). I have been unable to find any reference to characters being able to use snipe to deny dexterity bonus. Please, point me to the pertinent paragraph in the SRD or handbook. According to the combat section of the SRD: If you can’t react to a blow, you can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC. I'd say if your enemy can't see you (successfully hidden, invisible, or possess total concealment) to tell that you're attacking they can't react to the blow, no? Zevox |
| Mal-204-07-06, 11:16 PM | The fight is up! Mal-2, I think based on your tactics you might have forgotten that the monster fights are in the dungeon, because quarters are pretty close in there. But... well, you'll see. You're right, I completely forgot about the change in maps. Oh well, certainly no complaints from me. As to the rewards, let's see. There were two CR 3 wights, and Donak is ECL 7. I think they are worth 525 xp and 900 gp each, so the base reward should be 1050 xp and 1800 gp. Subtract 5% for a non-class ally, and 997 xp, 1710 gp would be the final amount, I think. |
| MindWandererB04-07-06, 11:31 PM | I do disagree with your ruling on blacklight. The spell descript states that there is no visiblity into the area except for the caster, I think that gives me the feeling of sniping from cover and would therefore deny Aerryl her dex bonus to my attacks. (I didn't look to see if any of the hits would have mad a difference.)I actually agree with you here as well, but as near as I can tell, it would result in only one extra hit, which is not enough--especially considering there was one hit on Aerryl at AC 26 which should have missed her cover AC of 27. |
| Argaud04-08-06, 03:10 AM | I'd say if your enemy can't see you (successfully hidden, invisible, or possess total concealment) to tell that you're attacking they can't react to the blow, no? Zevox Then why is in the combat section of the PHB it is clearly specified that a character blinded or facing an invisible opponent is denied dex but there is no mention to concealment? Being blinded means everybody has total concealment with regards the blinded character (exception: uncanny dodge or blind-fight feat). Invisible characters have total concealment too. Yet nowhere in the books are we told other kinds of total concealment provide the denial of dex bonus. Oversight? I don’t think so. If total cover, a rather common situation, allows for dex denial and therefore sneak-attacks, I am pretty sure it would be mentioned there. I actually agree with you here as well, but as near as I can tell, it would result in only one extra hit, which is not enough--especially considering there was one hit on Aerryl at AC 26 which should have missed her cover AC of 27. You are right, I realized that mistake shortly after the posting. But all that changes is that Aerryl wouldn't have used a charge of her wand before defeating Sola. |
| Usurpator04-08-06, 05:40 AM | I'd say if your enemy can't see you (successfully hidden, invisible, or possess total concealment) to tell that you're attacking they can't react to the blow, no? It would have clearer if they had written 'anticipate' rather than 'react', but I agree. |
| Turin04-08-06, 07:17 AM | You're right, I completely forgot about the change in maps. Oh well, certainly no complaints from me. As to the rewards, let's see. There were two CR 3 wights, and Donak is ECL 7. I think they are worth 525 xp and 900 gp each, so the base reward should be 1050 xp and 1800 gp. Subtract 5% for a non-class ally, and 997 xp, 1710 gp would be the final amount, I think.Oops... right calculation, just had the wrong CR! Must have had "wraith" stuck in my head or something. I'll fix it. Edit: done! |
| CaptainStrong04-08-06, 09:32 AM | Again, I'm not able to run this fight. I'm working tomorrow, and just got called in to work. Being called in shot my hopes of running the fight today... I'm PMing the tactics to the Pitlords. |
| Erithmu04-08-06, 09:50 AM | As stated before I am perfectly fine with the outcome of the fight but I know that this forum is a good place to learn ... as I learn how to present my side of this discussion, but I seem to be at a lack of words. I know that I will probably use this tactic in the future, and hopefully I wont have to argue it again. |
| DSugui04-08-06, 10:28 AM | Finrod Felagund (Lonewolf) vs. Fjörd Thjünderbjürd (Begferdeth) is up HERE I don't think this fight was meant to happen, but... |
| lonewolf04-08-06, 10:32 AM | Finrod Felagund (Lonewolf) vs. Fjörd Thjünderbjürd (Begferdeth) is up HERE I don't think this fight was meant to happen, but... I hope this isnt the only way how Finrod can win. :rolleyes: |
| Gonbow04-08-06, 10:43 AM | Okay. Lets do this step by step. Sniping is in reference to hiding. What is Hiding? Hiding is... HIDE (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY) Check: Your Hide check is opposed by the Spot check of anyone who might see you. You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging. A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Hide checks depending on its size category: Fine +16, Diminutive +12, Tiny +8, Small +4, Large –4, Huge –8, Gargantuan –12, Colossal –16. You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway. If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check; see below), though, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. (As a general guideline, the hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide.) This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast. Sniping: If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot. Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use Bluff to help you hide. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Hide check while people are aware of you. Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action. Special: If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Hide checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Hide checks if you’re moving. If you have the Stealthy feat, you get a +2 bonus on Hide checks. A 13th-level ranger can attempt a Hide check in any sort of natural terrain, even if it doesn’t grant cover or concealment. A 17th-level ranger can do this even while being observed. Okay, so total cover/concealment (such as when your opponent cant see you, for whatever reason) means you are automatically hidden, because they cant see you! Hell, this person doesn't even need to use the sniping option, because no matter what they.do, they cant be seen! So, what does being Hidden DO for us? Well this was a little harder to find, but.. Facing an Unseen Opponent To properly defend itself in combat, a creature must be able to see its foe, or use some ability acute enough to substitute for sight, such as the blindsight special quality (or the uncanny dodge ability; the section on uncanny dodge section is in Part Three). When facing a totally concealed foe, a creature is denied Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class and the attacker gets a +2 attack bonus as well. So. Since the person in question cannot be seen, any they attack is denied thier dexterity bonus. Lack of mention in the SRD is just that, as this is common sense. If you wish to read the rest of Skip's article, you can find it here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040224a). |
| DSugui04-08-06, 11:50 AM | Leets Mezeb (ViezeFurr) vs. Micah Ashald (DarthVegan) is up HERE That was fast. The cleric vs the fighter... guess who won? |
| Zevox04-08-06, 12:02 PM | Kracknol vs Lissa Longfellow (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8884026&postcount=500), or the Clash of the Titans of WAR, is up! Fast and brutal - a quick match of flapping wings, rushing hooves, flying arrows, and broken bones. Quite the close one too - check it out :cool: . Zevox |
| SauroGrenom04-08-06, 12:06 PM | Zevox. Thanks for running the fight. The damage that you missed was 2d6 for deep crystal. That would bring it up to 1d10+10+15d6 damage. |
| Argaud04-08-06, 12:08 PM | When facing a totally concealed foe, a creature is denied Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class and the attacker gets a +2 attack bonus as well. If you wish to read the rest of Skip's article, you can find it here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040224a). That is what I wanted to see! :-) Mind you, 'common sense' is not the only consideration in a RPG. Balance issues among the class abilities often lead to counter-intuitive rules. And this could perfectly have been one of those cases. |
| Zevox04-08-06, 12:09 PM | Zevox. Thanks for running the fight. The damage that you missed was 2d6 for deep crystal. That would bring it up to 1d10+10+15d6 damage. Oh, that would explain it. Thanks. Good thing it doesn't change anything, eh? Zevox |
| MysticMonk200504-08-06, 03:11 PM | Kracknol vs Lissa Longfellow (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8884026&postcount=500), or the Clash of the Titans of WAR, is up! Fast and brutal - a quick match of flapping wings, rushing hooves, flying arrows, and broken bones. Quite the close one too - check it out :cool: . Zevox Thanks for runing the fight. Atleast Lissa levels from that, and griffons shouldn't be a problem anymore! Enjoy defeating Tueor this week. |
| Zevox04-08-06, 03:21 PM | Enjoy defeating Tueor this week. *chuckles* I hope so, but I think that one could go either way. Depends on how those dice fall. Zevox |
| MindWandererB04-08-06, 03:56 PM | Ignatius, Vicar of Bahamut (Erithmu) vs Maeril (Usurpator) [ECL5] is up. Could have been a pain to run, but the two CEF gladiators decided to make my life easy. Let me know if I went out of line on your ideas of "honorable," but I think the fight was pretty straightforward. The (dice) Gods really did decide this one, and they seem to have had a strong opinion. |
| Erithmu04-08-06, 04:04 PM | The reason I knew I would get an AoO is that my guisarme reach is from 15-20ft and I have a bite range of 0-10 after expansion ... so thats why I didn't worry about reading an action. It is the same either way. I am fine with it if Usurpator is. |
| MysticMonk200504-08-06, 04:55 PM | Lissa is going to be miniquesting for a pegasus cohort. Any takers for running it? |
| DarthVegan04-08-06, 05:14 PM | Is there an item or something I could quest for to increase my will saves for my level 3 fighter? Or should I just use potions of Owl's Wisdom and wait to level up? |
| DSugui04-08-06, 05:18 PM | Is there an item or something I could quest for to increase my will saves for my level 3 fighter? Or should I just use potions of Owl's Wisdom and wait to level up? Cloack of Resistance +1 costs 1000 gp. Right now is the only item I remember that increases saves. |
| Zevox04-08-06, 06:10 PM | Is there an item or something I could quest for to increase my will saves for my level 3 fighter? Or should I just use potions of Owl's Wisdom and wait to level up? Well, potions of protection from (alignment) grant a +2 resistance bonus on all saves vs spells or casters of that alignment. That won't help vs TN casters of course, but its a start, and cheaper than potions of Owl's Wisdom. Beyond that, Cloaks of Resistance are the only thing that springs to mind, and the only one an ECL 3 character could afford easily is +1 (1,000 gp). That doesn't stack with the potions though (both giving resistance bonuses). Beyond that (unless I missed something), you'll just need to either take levels in a class with good will saves or take the Iron Will feat at your next opportunity. Low will saves is a typical problem among non-Paladin fighter types - if its any consolation, you can hardly be in a worse position than my Featylec Elendi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8020177&postcount=587) in that regard ;) . Zevox |
| Usurpator04-08-06, 06:13 PM | The reason I knew I would get an AoO is that my guisarme reach is from 15-20ft and I have a bite range of 0-10 after expansion ... so thats why I didn't worry about reading an action. It is the same either way. I am fine with it if Usurpator is. That's what I expected as well: Ignatius would get a free attack due to reach. Since I wanted us to have about equal odds, and expected the reach attack, I thought I might as well counter that by charging on horseback. Maeril had his chance, and he failed to make good on it. So be it. Besides, I am used to Maeril losing on dice. Did it at least three times before, but on those occasions the odds were in his advantage too. |
| Usurpator04-08-06, 06:21 PM | @Both: Thanks for agreeing to be honorable, although I don't know what honorable knight would be spearing an unmounted opponent with a mounted lance charge. Made the fight simple and easy to run. I hope I stayed within the bounds of what you would each consider appropriate. Against an opponent with a huge pole arm, who is getting a free extra attack from reach and might cleave you in two before you ever get into reach yourself? I think that is quite honorable. In general pole-arms were seen as a 'less honorable' weapon in the knightly traditions. |
| MindWandererB04-08-06, 06:27 PM | The reason I knew I would get an AoO is that my guisarme reach is from 15-20ft and I have a bite range of 0-10 after expansion ... so thats why I didn't worry about reading an action. It is the same either way. I am fine with it if Usurpator is.Enlarged, reach, I am an idiot. So it's an AoO and not a readied attack. Initiative order doesn't change, so no difference in the long run. And good point about the honor--It may not be honorable to skewer a footman from horseback most of the time, but that should probably be suspended when the footman is nine feet tall and carrying a 14-foot knife on a stick. |
| Zevox04-08-06, 07:19 PM | Again, I'm not able to run this fight. I'm working tomorrow, and just got called in to work. Being called in shot my hopes of running the fight today... I'm PMing the tactics to the Pitlords. So, can anyone pick this one up? (Fight in question is ECL 4: Eraca Moralta vs Dr. Hexacious Pogboomer.) I would, but I kinda have a stake in the outcome ;) . Zevox |
| Argaud04-08-06, 08:12 PM | Eight rounds of the battle of the evil guys (Asram the Fiend vs. Marcus the Assassin) have been posted. I'd like to hear comments about it, particularly because I think the rules of hiding/spotting/sniping are a bit controversial. I'd like to know if there is any mistake before the blood starts to spill for real :-) |
| Zevox04-08-06, 08:25 PM | Eight rounds of the battle of the evil guys (Asram the Fiend vs. Marcus the Assassin) have been posted. I'd like to hear comments about it, particularly because I think the rules of hiding/spotting/sniping are a bit controversial. I'd like to know if there is any mistake before the blood starts to spill for real :-) Its Asran, not Asram (probably a typo, but still ;) ). Interesting set of circumstances. One thing to point out - Marcus' shots in round 5 and 8 sadly hit for 7 and 6 damage, since Asran is denied his dex bonus to AC while he can't see Marcus (AC becomes 23). That means Asran switches to healing after the second hit(convienent that you ended in that round, eh?). As for using Wrath to locate him, the idea was basically that while he followed he'd eventually pass close enough to Marcus to pick him up on that radar of his. To point it out though since you mention it in the fight, if it makes a difference, he does indeed know the defend trick (knows heel, attack, and defend). Zevox |
| Argaud04-08-06, 08:54 PM | Its Asran, not Asram (probably a typo, but still ;) ). Interesting set of circumstances. One thing to point out - Marcus' shots in round 5 and 8 sadly hit for 7 and 6 damage, since Asran is denied his dex bonus to AC while he can't see Marcus (AC becomes 23). That means Asran switches to healing after the second hit(convienent that you ended in that round, eh?). As for using Wrath to locate him, the idea was basically that while he followed he'd eventually pass close enough to Marcus to pick him up on that radar of his. To point it out though since you mention it in the fight, if it makes a difference, he does indeed know the defend trick (knows seek, attack, and defend). Zevox Good thing I have posted the first rounds before ending. Those are a couple major mistakes. Wrath will start looking actively for Marcus the instant Asran gets hit, of course! |
| DarthVegan04-09-06, 12:51 AM | Thanks guys, but isn't a cloak of resistance a CL 5 item? Can my ECL 3 character use an item above his level? :confused: |
| Zevox04-09-06, 12:57 AM | Thanks guys, but isn't a cloak of resistance a CL 5 item? Can my ECL 3 character use an item above his level? :confused: As far as wondrous items go, so long as it doesn't have a limited number of charges (e.g. Feather Tokens), you're free to obtain any one you please if you can afford it. Its potions, tattoos, scrolls, powerstones, and items with charge limits (wands, dorjes, etc) that are limited to a CL/Ml of your ECL - nothing else. Zevox |
| Vathelokai04-09-06, 01:09 AM | So, can anyone pick this one up? (Fight in question is ECL 4: Eraca Moralta vs Dr. Hexacious Pogboomer.) I would, but I kinda have a stake in the outcome ;) . Zevox I can take it. Where's the details? *EDIT* I sent a PM to pitlords asking that tactics be forwarded. However if Turin or Zevox still have tactics and can sent them in the next couple hours, I might be able to start running it tonight. |
| DarthVegan04-09-06, 01:09 AM | Ahhh, I did not know that...thanks for the insight. |
| Zevox04-09-06, 01:25 AM | I can take it. Where's the details? *EDIT* I sent a PM to pitlords asking that tactics be forwarded. However if Turin or Zevox still have tactics and can sent them in the next couple hours, I might be able to start running it tonight. I've forwarded Eraca's tactics. Don't know if Turins on to forward Hexacious' in time for you to do it tonight though. Either way, thanks a lot for taking it! :) Zevox |
| Macbrea04-09-06, 01:27 AM | Looks find to me. Once the bat is within range of his blindsense he will automaticly know the square Marcus is in. This is the reason for the invisibility and sneak attack. Which of course wonder really work in darkness. But, what the heck. it happens. |
| Vathelokai04-09-06, 01:56 AM | I've forwarded Eraca's tactics. Don't know if Turins on to forward Hexacious' in time for you to do it tonight though. Either way, thanks a lot for taking it! :) Zevox Recieved. |
| StoneTree04-09-06, 02:07 AM | First fight is up, Riana vs. Featylec HERE (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8888123&postcount=507) Painful! |
| Vathelokai04-09-06, 04:25 AM | First fight is up, Riana vs. Featylec HERE (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8888123&postcount=507) Painful! http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/Vathelokai/8bit-theatre/sword-chuck.jpg |
| Abyssal Stalker04-09-06, 06:48 AM | Quesis vs Koan is up! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8890505&postcount=508) Please check for errors! Especially the coup de grace and will save part of the fight. I had been thinking of the same kind of situation earlier, but hadn't come up with a respond until now when I had to. |
| Argaud04-09-06, 08:29 AM | Some more rounds from Asran vs. Marcus added here. It is quickly becoming a nightmare to run since Marcus can use potions of invisibility to vanish, run away and return to sniping. It probably will take about 50 rounds to finish :/ |
| Mal-204-09-06, 09:21 AM | Some more rounds from Asran vs. Marcus added here. Marcus taps a tattoo of Force Screen. There is a loud auditory display (DC 9 at 190’, since it is automatically heard at 100’) and Asran knows Marcus is in the north box (1d20+6=12, 1d20+12=30). Heh. Marcus should buy his tattoos from a vendor that doesn't hate him. Powers with an Auditory display can be that loud, but they can also be "[a]t the manifester’s option, the instantaneous sound can be so soft that it can be heard only within 15 feet with a successful DC 10 Listen check." I assume that's one of the things that the person creating the tattoo chooses when he creates it, but it seems a bit cruel to rule that the rogue bought the loud ones. |
| Zevox04-09-06, 09:22 AM | First fight is up, Riana vs. Featylec HERE (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8888123&postcount=507) Painful! Unfortunately I must ask that you edit something in. In round 13 and 14 Featylec should have been healing with the wand, if you'll note this part of my tactics: - If my hp drops to 13 or below, heal back up to 21+ with my wand (note: neither drawing nor using this provokes AoOs, since as per the FAQ it counts as a weapon-like object). This overrides all other tactics. On average rolls, that healing lets him survive Riana's round 15 attack, meaning hes still in the game. Technically that also means Featylec should have healed again in round 11, since he was at only 18 hp, not 21, but I'm not very concerned about that. Zevox |
| Zevox04-09-06, 09:28 AM | Some more rounds from Asran vs. Marcus added here. It is quickly becoming a nightmare to run since Marcus can use potions of invisibility to vanish, run away and return to sniping. It probably will take about 50 rounds to finish :/ Perhaps, but don't forget that Wrath will know what direction Marcus was going, so it shouldn't be hard to chase him. Still, it does look like it'll be a painful one to finish - sorry about that :( . Zevox |
| Turin04-09-06, 09:34 AM | I can take it. Where's the details? *EDIT* I sent a PM to pitlords asking that tactics be forwarded. However if Turin or Zevox still have tactics and can sent them in the next couple hours, I might be able to start running it tonight.Sent! |
| lonewolf04-09-06, 09:39 AM | I wont have enough time until tuesday evening, so I would like to give my two fights away. If noone takes them I will finish them Tuesday night => late, but before pairings. Loddick Saffrion (Erithmu) vs. KazzzAHM (Pittbull) : Lonewolf Thanks for running the fight. I smell grapple fest, and I can’t shoot arrows at him fast enough. So this will be ugly. Start with Scimitar and bow in hand. Front of my square. Win Init and Kazz is visible: (if I can determine this) Drop scimitar and shoot an arrow, expending focus if I see him Then pick up scimitar Lose Init: Buff animal affinity(Str) - pp Buff Precognition offensive - crystal Buff 1pp vigor –crystal (refresh later with my one extra pp) The plan Hit him with my scimitar and run pp through it to get deep crystal +2d6 If I get grappled: It is probably over, but try to get out of it. PP useage: 3 – animal affinity 2 – deep crystal Cry – precog off Cry - vigor If you have any questions please PM before you run the fight so that I can address them over PM instead of in the FotW thread -Rith Servus Lonwolf! KazzzAHM starts in the back of the startingbox, he has a potion in one hand. His shield is on his back. Buff: 1. Draw and drink a potion of invisibility. 2. Draw and drink a potion of bull's strength. Now move out to search for the elan, once found grapple him. In the grapple attack him with all the natural attacks. Of course, rage. You can use his healing-devices, if necessary. Unless grappling, keep always a hand free to be able to deflect his arrows and the glob of ectoplasmic goo. Have fun! Improvise, if there's a need and thanks a lot for running the fight. Liebe Grüße, Peter. Manzarf the Loathsome (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Drac (Dracazar) : lonewolf Hi, and thanks for Pitlording! Old foes meet again, nice to see what happens this time! Start in the front line of my square with the bow in one hand and the drow poison in the other. Apply the drow poison to my armor spikes (guess what I'm trying to do! oh, remember the "don't poison yourself"-roll) and go look for Drac by moving clockwise around the center of the arena. Shoot at Drac if I see him from far. If he's close, go and grapple him and use the armor spikes to deal grapple damage! If and when he goes invisible, make active listen checks to find him. If I hear him, quickdraw scythe and go trip him. With the following attack grapple him! Use the CLW's when needed, but don't waste a good chance to catch Drac. Rage, if I get him grappled (but not before I get a hold of him!). Rage if my hp's drop below 15 and no healing power is left. Oh, if he summons a swarm - run as far as possible! Don't forget my +2 to saves against spells! That's about it, have fun! Sorry about sloppy tactics, I couldn't come up with better ones at the moment... Manzarf the Loathsome (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Drac (Dracazar) : lonewolf 2006 April 05; Thanks for running the fight Objectives: Kill him with spells # [A] Drac (Dracazar) [Power: 2360 (1180); 6 won, 5 lost] Neutral Good Gray Elf Wizard 5; HP 19; AC 13 # [A] Manzarf the Loathsome (Abyssal Stalker) [Power: 2092 (1046); 6 won, 5 lost] Chaotic Evil Dwarf Barbarian1/Fighter4; HP 49; AC 20 Tactic: Here Drac will use a lot of expendables Start in the back of the starting box holding a scroll of Invisibility and scroll of Unseen Servant I think it is allowed to hold 2 scroll and use 1 of them (if not, draw it) Hawk (the familiar) flies up (as much as possible) looking for the foe and doesn't engage him (use cover if able) Hawk will follow the foe from high instance and begin melee only when Drac attacks too Round 1) Cast Invisibility from scroll and move 30' Round 2) Cast Unseen Servant from scroll and draw a scroll of Grease and move 5' to avoid pinpoint The Invisible Servant stay always near Drac Round 3) Draw and Cast scroll of Mage Armor, move 5' Round 4) Draw and Cast scroll of Alter Self(Troglodyte), move 5' Round 5) Draw and Cast scroll of Mirror Image, move 5' Round 6) Draw and Cast scroll of Shield, move 5' Round 7) Draw and Cast scroll of Protection from Evil, move 5' The Invisible Servant stay near Drac Do move action inside buff sequence if Manzarf is too near After buff sequence the stat should be: AC normal 29 ...... [+0 Size, +3 DEX, +6 Armor, +4 Shield, +4 Natural, +2 Deflect] AC touch 15 ....... [+0 Size, +3 DEX, No Armor, No Shield, No Natural, +2 Deflect] AC flatfooted 26 .. [+0 Size, No DEX, +6 Armor, +4 Shield, +4 Natural, +2 Deflect] Now draw longsword and go near foe moving silently (half speed, also servant speed is 15') Cast True Strike(Silent Spell) while near him and then Vampiric Touch When Drac become visible do this: with move action give the scroll of Grease to Unseen Servant this should allow Drac to read and cast the scroll if grappled to escape also tell Hawk familiar to attack and flank the foe The fight continues with Shocking Grasp from memory then move away and Fireball from memory then spells from scrolls (Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, Shocking Grasp) use also Vampiric Touch is low on hp If grapple use the Grapple scroll hold by the servant If unable to do that, then combat and deal damage with dagger If out of Shield or PfEvil or MirrorImage cast again Contingencies: If something breaks the scheme feel free to improvise and use any scroll, they are there to be used! If out of tactic please Play the character, Drac is a very intelligent gray elf wizard Use the 5' step to cast or draw scrolls avoiding AoO, cast defensively only if needed Drac and Hawk (the familiar) use Tumble to avoid any AoO, I repeat use Tumble if able Use Spellcraft to know what spells are casted If nothing in LoS cast See Invisibility Free Activity: Craft(Jewelry) 130 gp Note: If there are evident problems with this tactic please PM me, thanks |
| Argaud04-09-06, 09:48 AM | I assume that's one of the things that the person creating the tattoo chooses when he creates it, but it seems a bit cruel to rule that the rogue bought the loud ones. Actually I am assuming the manifester needs to do an extra effort to repress the displays, but that it is not possible to do so with items. Otherwise the displays wouldn't be not much of a problem. But I have little experience with psionics, so if someone knows better I'd like to be educated :-) |
| Abyssal Stalker04-09-06, 10:06 AM | Loddick Saffrion (Erithmu) vs. KazzzAHM (Pittbull) : Lonewolf Thanks for running the fight. I smell grapple fest, and I can’t shoot arrows at him fast enough. So this will be ugly. Start with Scimitar and bow in hand. Front of my square. Win Init and Kazz is visible: (if I can determine this) Drop scimitar and shoot an arrow, expending focus if I see him Then pick up scimitar Lose Init: Buff animal affinity(Str) - pp Buff Precognition offensive - crystal Buff 1pp vigor –crystal (refresh later with my one extra pp) The plan Hit him with my scimitar and run pp through it to get deep crystal +2d6 If I get grappled: It is probably over, but try to get out of it. PP useage: 3 – animal affinity 2 – deep crystal Cry – precog off Cry - vigor If you have any questions please PM before you run the fight so that I can address them over PM instead of in the FotW thread -Rith Servus Lonwolf! KazzzAHM starts in the back of the startingbox, he has a potion in one hand. His shield is on his back. Buff: 1. Draw and drink a potion of invisibility. 2. Draw and drink a potion of bull's strength. Now move out to search for the elan, once found grapple him. In the grapple attack him with all the natural attacks. Of course, rage. You can use his healing-devices, if necessary. Unless grappling, keep always a hand free to be able to deflect his arrows and the glob of ectoplasmic goo. Have fun! Improvise, if there's a need and thanks a lot for running the fight. Liebe Grüße, Peter. I can take this. I'll send a PM to Pitlords. |
| Pittbull04-09-06, 10:12 AM | I can take this. I'll send a PM to Pitlords. Thanks a lot! I'm sorry, I can't take other one. :( |
| Mal-204-09-06, 10:17 AM | Actually I am assuming the manifester needs to do an extra effort to repress the displays, but that it is not possible to do so with items. Otherwise the displays wouldn't be not much of a problem. But I have little experience with psionics, so if someone knows better I'd like to be educated :-) I think that the volume of the Auditory display is one of the choices you make when you manifest the power. Since you make all choices for a manifestation when you imprint the tattoo, I think the creator of the item can choose to make them as loud or quiet as he likes (within the normal range for the display). I don't think they can completely suppress the displays, since that requires a Concentration check. Let's see if I can dig up some references to support my thoughts. Display When a power is manifested, a display may accompany the primary effect. This secondary effect may be auditory, material, mental, olfactory, or visual. No power’s display is significant enough to create consequences for the psionic creatures, allies, or opponents during combat. The secondary effect for a power occurs only if the power’s description indicates it. If multiple powers with similar displays are in effect simultaneously, the displays do not necessary become more intense. Instead, the overall display remains much the same, though with minute spikes in intensity. A Psicraft check (DC 10 + 1 per additional power in use) reveals the exact number of simultaneous powers in play. Dispense with Displays Despite the fact that almost every power has a display, a psionic character can always choose to manifest the power without the flashy accompaniment. To manifest a power without any display (no matter how many displays it might have), a manifester must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the power). This check is part of the action of manifesting the power. If the check is unsuccessful, the power manifests normally with its display. Even if a manifester manifests a power without a display, he is still subject to attacks of opportunity in appropriate circumstances. (Of course, another Concentration check can be made as normal to either manifest defensively or maintain the power if attacked.) Auditory A bass-pitched hum issues from the manifester’s vicinity or in the vicinity of the power’s subject (manifester’s choice), eerily akin to many deep-pitched voices. The sound grows in a second from hardly noticeable to as loud as a shout strident enough to be heard within 100 feet. At the manifester’s option, the instantaneous sound can be so soft that it can be heard only within 15 feet with a successful DC 10 Listen check. Some powers describe unique auditory displays.Scribe Tattoo [Item Creation] You can create psionic tattoos, which store powers within their designs. Prerequisite Manifester level 3rd. Benefit You can create a psionic tattoo of any power of 3rd level or lower that you know and that targets one or more creatures. Scribing a psionic tattoo takes one day. When you create a psionic tattoo, you set the manifester level. The manifester level must be sufficient to manifest the power in question and no higher than your own level. The base price of a psionic tattoo is its power level × its manifester level × 50 gp. To scribe a tattoo, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials (special inks, masterwork needles, and so on) costing one-half of this base price. When you create a psionic tattoo, you make any choices that you would normally make when manifesting the power. When its wearer physically activates the tattoo, the wearer is the target of the power. Any psionic tattoo that stores a power with an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the costs derived from the base price, you must pay the XP when creating the tattoo. All of that being said, I don't think you should change the fight you're currently running. I just had the mental image of Marcus hiding behind his rock, lying in wait for his foe, stealthily reaching up and tapping a tattoo and... BOOM. I think there will be a very unhappy tattooist in Gladius once Marcus gets out of the arena. :) |
| Abyssal Stalker04-09-06, 12:51 PM | Loddick vs KazzzAHM (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8891973&postcount=509) is done! |
| Pittbull04-09-06, 01:18 PM | Loddick vs KazzzAHM (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8891973&postcount=509) is done! Thanks for running the fight! At the first glance, I spotted only one mistake: You lose dex-bonus against invisible attackers, unless you have uncanny dodge. Therefor the attack in round 4 should hit (12 vs AC10). This wouldn't change the result, so there no need to fix it. Again, thanks a lot! |
| Dracazar04-09-06, 03:48 PM | Quesis vs Koan is up! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8890505&postcount=508) Please check for errors! Especially the coup de grace and will save part of the fight. I had been thinking of the same kind of situation earlier, but hadn't come up with a respond until now when I had to. There is an evident error in round 5 Quesis initiative is 17 Koan initiative is 16 On Round 5, Quesis acts before Koan and both are taking a full-round action The full-round action of Quesis is the will save vs hold person (that is a success) The full-round action of Koan is the coup de grace So when Koan's action resolves Quesis is no more paralyzed and also Quesis could take a 5' step to negate the CdG Also, but it is minor, in round 4 Koan must bring near to do CdG, from posted coordinates it seems that he doesn't move. |
| graymocker04-09-06, 04:39 PM | There is an evident error in round 5 Quesis initiative is 17 Koan initiative is 16 On Round 5, Quesis acts before Koan and both are taking a full-round action The full-round action of Quesis is the will save vs hold person (that is a success) The full-round action of Koan is the coup de grace So when Koan's action resolves Quesis is no more paralyzed and also Quesis could take a 5' step to negate the CdG Also, but it is minor, in round 4 Koan must bring near to do CdG, from posted coordinates it seems that he doesn't move. Koan is already threatening you in rnd. 3 thanks to reach granted by enlarge person. (And is only a 5' step away, anyhow...) Koan CdGed on round 4, it just landed round 5. |
| Erithmu04-09-06, 05:58 PM | Loddick vs KazzzAHM (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8891973&postcount=509) is done! I ask only that my win init bow shot is taken. 1d8+2d6+1 is nothing to scoff at ... And it is listed as the first combat actions in my tactics. I'm sure that this will require the fact that Khaz's touch then hits in round 4 which may mean that my later hit may not work ... but I would just ask that my tactics be run. I think I'm going to purchase a deep crystal dagger for grapplers. |
| Vathelokai04-09-06, 06:03 PM | Actually I am assuming the manifester needs to do an extra effort to repress the displays, but that it is not possible to do so with items. Otherwise the displays wouldn't be not much of a problem. But I have little experience with psionics, so if someone knows better I'd like to be educated :-) The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the target; therefore, powers that target another creature cannot be stored in psionic tattoo form. Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos. Since the person who taps the tatoo is the manifester for intents and purposes, he gets to choose the display, and can make a concentration (untrained con) check to hide it. |
| SauroGrenom04-10-06, 12:36 AM | Valek vs War is hands down the longest fight I've ever run so far. An increadible knock down drag out slash fest by two sturdy warriors going at it toe to toe for 80+ rounds. Check it out. Mabey I'll write up a story about it. |
| NiQil04-10-06, 12:50 AM | Valek vs War is hands down the longest fight I've ever run so far. An increadible knock down drag out slash fest by two sturdy warriors going at it toe to toe for 80+ rounds. Check it out. Mabey I'll write up a story about it. I knew my wand was going to take the day in this one...we were too evenly matched otherwise... |
| Pittbull04-10-06, 02:19 AM | I ask only that my win init bow shot is taken. 1d8+2d6+1 is nothing to scoff at ... And it is listed as the first combat actions in my tactics. I'm sure that this will require the fact that Khaz's touch then hits in round 4 which may mean that my later hit may not work ... but I would just ask that my tactics be run. I think I'm going to purchase a deep crystal dagger for grapplers. KazzzAHM has deflect arrows and one hand free, you cannot hit him with an arrow. |
| TheMagister04-10-06, 06:50 AM | KazzzAHM has deflect arrows and one hand free, you cannot hit him with an arrow. He can (Loddick can) if KazzzAHM is flat-footed and thus unaware of the attack. So, yeah, you should've let him fire the bowshot. TM |
| Vathelokai04-10-06, 06:56 AM | Hexacious vs Eraca is up. Apparently Invisible Castle dosn't like either one of you. Guess who it dislikes more... It was tough to follow the tactics in this fight; the dice ruined some strategies and ranges didn't work out according to plan. Hope the outcome is acceptable. |
| funnymanmike04-10-06, 07:11 AM | haven't noticed anything from my pitlord at all yet, like not even posts. is king uther away or something? |
| Turin04-10-06, 07:22 AM | Hexacious vs Eraca is up. Apparently Invisible Castle dosn't like either one of you. Guess who it dislikes more... It was tough to follow the tactics in this fight; the dice ruined some strategies and ranges didn't work out according to plan. Hope the outcome is acceptable.I'm beginning to think the arena really hates Dr. Pogboomer. I need to reconsider some of my build with this guy and try to figure out a new direction for him. But thanks for running this fight, Vath... it looked like it was an annoying one to have to run.Hexacious has a [+2 divination] next to his spell craft skill. There should also be a [-5 necromancy].Thanks for pointing that out. Looks like I've got a minor prison violation WRT his spell levels that I need to take care, too. haven't noticed anything from my pitlord at all yet, like not even posts. is king uther away or something?Apparently. The folks who are on the Lord of Shadows quest were told that he was moving last weekend, but we haven't heard from him in over a week now. Maybe he's having ISP issues at the new place or something. |
| Vathelokai04-10-06, 07:23 AM | haven't noticed anything from my pitlord at all yet, like not even posts. is king uther away or something? He was away ... I thought he was to be back by now? |
| MysticMonk200504-10-06, 07:52 AM | Drommar VS Korinel is still incomplete, but you can find the first 26 rounds here. As its 5 in the morning and I have work, Im getting what sleep I can and will finish after I get home again. So pointing out any errors would be good before I go ahead and finish. |
| DSugui04-10-06, 07:59 AM | Valek vs War is hands down the longest fight I've ever run so far. An increadible knock down drag out slash fest by two sturdy warriors going at it toe to toe for 80+ rounds. Check it out. Mabey I'll write up a story about it. I knew I was forgeting something... I should have contingencies to sunder the damn wand... |
| Argaud04-10-06, 08:28 AM | Drommar VS Korinel is still incomplete, but you can find the first 26 rounds here. As its 5 in the morning and I have work, Im getting what sleep I can and will finish after I get home again. So pointing out any errors would be good before I go ahead and finish. I have not checked it slowly, but the only thing that I could see is that Korinel should have healed with the wand in round 24, since he is at less than half hp. He is not having much luck with the arrows, uh? :-( Otherwise, it looks good, Thanks for running it, the archery duel is taking a while, as I feared. I also missread that a levitating character attacks start at -1, not normal, which is hurting Korinel's archery quite a bit. Dronnar actually managed to get his AC up decently. But some of his buffs are about to expire. |
| Abyssal Stalker04-10-06, 09:00 AM | There is an evident error in round 5 Quesis initiative is 17 Koan initiative is 16 On Round 5, Quesis acts before Koan and both are taking a full-round action The full-round action of Quesis is the will save vs hold person (that is a success) The full-round action of Koan is the coup de grace So when Koan's action resolves Quesis is no more paralyzed and also Quesis could take a 5' step to negate the CdG Also, but it is minor, in round 4 Koan must bring near to do CdG, from posted coordinates it seems that he doesn't move. Koan is already threatening you in rnd. 3 thanks to reach granted by enlarge person. (And is only a 5' step away, anyhow...) Koan CdGed on round 4, it just landed round 5. The explanation of graymocker is correct. -As you can see from the map in round 3, Koan is only one square away from Quesis. -Quesis tries to save against the spell 3 times: 1st save in round 3 (normal save when the spell is cast, failure), 2nd save starts in round 4 (full-round action, failure) and the 3rd save starts in round 5 (full-round action, success). This means that Quesis is ready to act in round 6. -Koan starts the CDG in round 4 and completes it in round 5. -As a side note: basically you can't complete two full-round actions in two rounds, since it's a standard action to begin the full-round action and a standard action to finish it. So if you start the 1st FRA in round 1, you complete it in round 2 and thus have used your standard action in round 2. This means that you can't start the second FRA until round 3 and finish it in round 4. So I actually seem to have given you too many saves! I'll gladly answer if there is something else you are concerned of! |
| Abyssal Stalker04-10-06, 09:12 AM | I ask only that my win init bow shot is taken. 1d8+2d6+1 is nothing to scoff at ... And it is listed as the first combat actions in my tactics. I'm sure that this will require the fact that Khaz's touch then hits in round 4 which may mean that my later hit may not work ... but I would just ask that my tactics be run. I think I'm going to purchase a deep crystal dagger for grapplers. I'm terribly sorry if I have understood your tactics wrong! I can change the fight, but then I'll have to also change the touch attack in round 4 (BTW, I forgot the +2 from charge AND the fact that Loddick won't get his DEX bonus in his AC, which means that the outcome of the touch attack will be 14 vs 10 and succeeds. This way you won't get any chance at all to fire your bow, unless you manage to break free from the grapple. The reason I didn't make the shot is that Loddick didn't see KazzzAHM at all before the touch attack and the way I read (apparently misread) your tactics was that I understood the scimitar was your melee option. If you still wish, I'll correct the fight accordingly! Here's the map to the first round, there is no LoS. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=L,M,-22,0,Loddick;b=K,M,0,-30,KazzzAHM;los=-22,0,0,-30,1 |
| Zevox04-10-06, 09:25 AM | Hexacious vs Eraca is up. Apparently Invisible Castle dosn't like either one of you. Guess who it dislikes more... It was tough to follow the tactics in this fight; the dice ruined some strategies and ranges didn't work out according to plan. Hope the outcome is acceptable. Interesting. Well, at least the backup knockout plan worked - those vials of drow poison are cheap enough. I was rather hoping he wouldn't hear the sleep casting so I could get it off without a problem, but oh well. Thanks for running the fight Vath, looks good! Edit: You forgot one of the scrolls Eraca scribed in the wrap-up though - Scroll of Jump (2 castings) [CL 2nd]: - 50 gp, - 4 xp. Zevox |
| Erithmu04-10-06, 09:53 AM | I'm terribly sorry if I have understood your tactics wrong! I can change the fight, but then I'll have to also change the touch attack in round 4 (BTW, I forgot the +2 from charge AND the fact that Loddick won't get his DEX bonus in his AC, which means that the outcome of the touch attack will be 14 vs 10 and succeeds. This way you won't get any chance at all to fire your bow, unless you manage to break free from the grapple. The reason I didn't make the shot is that Loddick didn't see KazzzAHM at all before the touch attack and the way I read (apparently misread) your tactics was that I understood the scimitar was your melee option. No its ok ... I though Khaz started in the front of his box for some reason from the map, but I didn't see that he moved up. My mistake. Everything is clean, I must have just been tired or something. -Rith |
| Abyssal Stalker04-10-06, 09:57 AM | No its ok ... I though Khaz started in the front of his box for some reason from the map, but I didn't see that he moved up. My mistake. Everything is clean, I must have just been tired or something. -RithHappens to all of us every now and then! I'll just leave the fight the way it is! |
| barrel_master04-10-06, 01:00 PM | If it's okay with my GMs I'd like to edit my sheets tommorow as apperently I'm wearing grandma's underwear and that's a character violation or such. If you dudes don't want me too please voice your concerns. |
| Caterane04-10-06, 05:28 PM | Telveran and Vandelar vs Unknown Monsters is up here. @Shadow: LOL LOL |
| SoulLord04-10-06, 05:47 PM | Telveran and Vandelar vs Unknown Monsters is up here. @Shadow: LOL LOL Just a note I thought the the height of the cavern to be 15 feet instead of the 20 you posted with only 5 feet space and they being large creatures there was no way they could get to vandelar so fast. As for the large outsider being a vrock it could well have been something else instead of a teleporter. The is a cavern of 150 feet and a height of 15 feet. The walls, ceiling, and floor are assumed to be 20 foot thick at a minimum. Each number along the grid represents 5 feet. Each square has the same size; don't be misled by the graphic where the walls seem to reach into a square. Round 1: Telveran reacts first and immideately wards himself against acid, knowing the breath of the black dragon well. He also draws a potion of enlarge person to match its grandeur. Vandelar hears Telverans voice from the SE and knows where his ally is. The Red Wizard of Gladius threw an evards tentacle spell between a narrow pathway, effectively blocking the ground and the lower 10ft to the 20ft high ceiling. Unfortunately, the dragon and the demon now know where the prey is. Just as Telveran had finished his spell, a large black dragon flew around the corner and landed right infront of him! He opened his mouth and poured forth a stream of burning acid [20 dam]. The Vrock drank the potion before he flew to the other box from where the stench of goodness came. |
| Caterane04-10-06, 05:51 PM | Alright. Off to edit the fight... |
| SoulLord04-10-06, 05:54 PM | Thanks for the edit. |
| Caterane04-10-06, 06:27 PM | Ok done. It was closer this time. The problem is that attempting to possess a creature is a fullround action. The dragon powerattacked with his 16 bab and hit for 45 damage. At the beginning of the next round, Vandelar would have possessed the dragon. |
| SoulLord04-10-06, 06:40 PM | Thanks for the edit again Caterane just a minor thing possesing someone is a full round action A full-round action requires an entire round to complete. Thus, it can’t be coupled with a standard or a move action, though if it does not involve moving any distance, you can take a 5-foot step. but it doesnt have a 1 round casting time. the difference is in one I finish in my own turn and the other it finishes at my next turn. here it's explained better http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050705a relevant text Full-Round Actions As noted in Part One, a full-round action uses up all your time in a round. You can't combine a full-round action with a standard or a move action, though if your full-round action does not involve moving any distance, you can take a 5-foot step. Remember that you complete a full-round action during your turn. You do not have to wait until the next round to complete the action (unless you use two standard actions to start the action during one turn and finish it the next; see Part Three). If you can edit the fight Great! |
| Caterane04-10-06, 06:46 PM | Since when is this the case. I've never seen a summon appear in the same round. Even with that quote, it happens at the end of the round - after the dragons turn. EDIT: Rules of the Game? LOL If a summon would appear at the end of the round (according to your article), and the spell says they attack right away, what's their ini again? Zero? |
| SoulLord04-10-06, 06:53 PM | Since when is this the case. I've never seen a summon appear in the same round. Even with that quote, it happens at the end of the round - after the dragons turn. Summon spells have a 1 round casting time which is why they appear 1 round later heres the relevant part of summon spells http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050705a Cast a Spell: Spells with 1 round casting times break the rule about completing full-round actions during your turn. You use a full-round action to cast the spell, but the spell comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. And the action would take place in vandelars turn not at the end of the round after the dragon action Vandelar could still fail the caster level check to overcome his spell resistance and the result would be the same though. ** caster level check to overcome spell resistance using magic jar is +10** in case you decide to edit the fight. I also found it in the mainFaq page 20 of 68 A sorcerer needs a full round action to cast any spell modified by a metamagic feat. does this means the spell takes effect the following round or does it go off at the end of the round in which it's cast? Despite the similarity in wording, a spell that requires a "full-round action" to cast(such as that required by a metamagic affected sorcerer spell isn't the same as a spell with "1-round casting time" such as that of a summon monster spell. the former takes your entire turn to complete, while the latter takes your entire turn as well as the time between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn. A full-round action such as the run action or the withdraw action requires an entire round to complete but ends on the same turn it began (altough you can split it between two consecutive turns, as described under the "start/complete full round action" entry on the page 142 in the players handbook) thus, a spell that requires a full round action to cast is completed at the end of the caster's turn) Still it's your call I accept whatever you rule on. |
| Caterane04-10-06, 08:01 PM | Run No 4 is up. :surrender |
| DSugui04-10-06, 10:09 PM | Sunstroke (MindWandererB) vs. Shazzelin the Gray (Usurpator) is up! The most strange ranged duel I've ever seen in three parts: Part I, Part II and Part III. Please look for erros (but please, please don't find them...) About my other fight, I have a problem... I deleted Katana's tactics for Mizay by accident. I PMed him Saturday night, when this happend, asking him to send me the tactics again, but so far he didn't. So, if I don't get his tactics in the next few hours, I will run the fight with tactics from previous fights for him. I think this is better than surrender or not running the fight at all... |
| DSugui04-10-06, 11:18 PM | Valek vs War is hands down the longest fight I've ever run so far. An increadible knock down drag out slash fest by two sturdy warriors going at it toe to toe for 80+ rounds. Check it out. Mabey I'll write up a story about it. I think it's a little too late to say this, but Valek's favored enemy is dwarf, so he should get +2 damage against War... I am not asking for a rerun or something (it would be a pain in the neck), but if Sauro has some time it would be nice to check it up, I think Valek would drop War early in the fight... If you don't have time (or patience...), I'm Ok with it... |
| Ariel2304-10-06, 11:33 PM | @stonetree: Well I only have 2 issues, but neither of them really matter. @Ariel23: With no ranks in Spellcraft or Psicraft, I couldn't in good faith have you know the effects of spells or powers, or even the basics, such as that they had durations. I had your character assume they worked like your powers, and were limitless and easilly renewed. A single rank in each skill probably wouldn't go amiss next time you get the chance.We've never used a rule like that in the arena that I've ever seen. How does my character know exactly how far 30' or 60' or 90' is? Or a sorcerer the precise radius of a Fireball? I'm not picking on Xevox here, but how would Featylec know if his HP were precisely at 13 without a Heal check? In monster fights, you need Knowledge (Nature) to tell a wolf from a dog or a horse from an elephant, but in the arena you don't. Would Craft (Armorsmithing) be needed to know what AC armor is or to tell the difference between types of shields? What about a fight where one person has Improved Invisibility and their opponent doesn't have Spellcraft...what would they think of all these mysteriously appearing wounds? Would an Entangled character think they were paralyzed? (Without the Heal skill, maybe they wouldn't even think that.) I guess if you had Craft (Alchemy) you would know what a Tanglefoot Entangle is but not the spell Entangle. I can just imagine someone running headfirst into a Wall of Iron if they weren't familiar with 6th level Wizard spells. I don't really know what else to say about it, except that this will likely cause you major headaches down the road. This is definitely a very minor headache. :tantrum: Anyway, that's why my tactics said this:If I see a shimmering field of force (i.e., Shield of Faith) http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/shieldofFaith.htm This spell creates a shimmering, magical field I never mention in my tactics anything about spotting the Force Screen for the reason that it's invisible. He only has 2 potions: SoF and Jump. It would not take Spellcraft to tell the difference between those two. (Issue 2) I wouldn't necessarily call a strategic retreat "delaying the inevitable"--that could be said of any non-attack round in any fight. I would have no problem with a rule that gladiators had to make attacks by Round 3 or something. It is only 10 rounds until SoF (and Force Screen) wears off. If it was 20 or 30 I wouldn't do something like that. This is the difference between needing to roll 20's to hit and needing to roll 14's...a 600% increase! :P Featylec's unbuffed AC = 21; buffed = 23 to 27 Round 3 attack roll: 23 (minus range) Round 5: 23 Round 6: 21 Round 10: 22 That's potentially 4 more hits. That said, whatever you do is fine with me. |
| MindWandererB04-11-06, 12:07 AM | Sunstroke (MindWandererB) vs. Shazzelin the Gray (Usurpator) is up! The most strange ranged duel I've ever seen in three parts: Part I, Part II and Part III. Please look for erros (but please, please don't find them...)I'm afraid there is one, a fairly severe one: why did Sunstroke not renew Vigor the second time it was depleted? The final shot should take away only the 10 temporary hit points and two more, reducing him to 9 HP--which should then promptly be restored to 19 with another charge of the dorje. More minor problems: When within 30', I asked to use a javelin instead of the bow. Since the javelin does an additional 3 points of damage, the hits in rounds 30 and 33 should take off an extra 6 points--unless there's a reason why a javelin won't work in these cases. Plus, PBS applies in these cases, for another 2 points, bringing Shazz down to 3 HP. I think I have a fair chance of winning at this point, at 19 to 3. Neither tactic was followed regarding melee: Shazzellin was supposed to stay out of melee range at all times (and if that failed, Enlarge and attack with axe), and Sunstroke was supposed to grapple him if Shazz ever got in range. This happened in round 30 (after the invisible strike). Sorry, but these are some major issues, and I hope you can address them. |
| Gonbow04-11-06, 02:40 AM | Destra vs Tueor is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8905608&postcount=518). An interesting battle, though if I went overboard on the OOC comments... well, blame television. Zevox, I had to snip your character's religious information to keep it in one post, I hope you don't mind. @Stonetree: I just saw the resolution to Enoch vs Gray Xander and I should note that I specifically wanted to kill the horse if he brought him with him. With the scroll of scorching ray, not by engaging it in melee combat! I've seen horses take on dedicated grappler builds and destroy them! This in my tactics and I feel should be followed. I'd appreciate it if this revision was taken into consideration. |
| Sindorin04-11-06, 02:59 AM | Last edited by WizO_Shadow : Yesterday at 01:49 PM. Reason: Masking profanity. Please be careful! It would be funny if Shadow started editing people's characters and stuff like that... |
| MysticMonk200504-11-06, 03:37 AM | Dronnar VS Korinel Is finished! I should be able to fix problems(though i hope not) very very late tuesday night, with a very small possibilty of it during the day. I think that was one of the longest fights I've run... Destra vs Tueor is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8905608&postcount=518). An interesting battle, though if I went overboard on the OOC comments... well, blame television. Zevox, I had to snip your character's religious information to keep it in one post, I hope you don't mind. :shocked: :OMG! :blink: wow... I definatly didn't expect to win. Thanks for running the fight, I loved the commentary. |
| Usurpator04-11-06, 04:02 AM | Sunstroke (MindWandererB) vs. Shazzelin the Gray (Usurpator) is up! The most strange ranged duel I've ever seen in three parts: Part I, Part II and Part III. Please look for erros (but please, please don't find them...) Wow, just wow. Thank you very much for the patience of running such a long fight. Haven't checked for errors yet, will try later today. Once again, thanks, some of those parts must have been quite boring to run. |
| Usurpator04-11-06, 04:14 AM | I'm afraid there is one, a fairly severe one: why did Sunstroke not renew Vigor the second time it was depleted? The final shot should take away only the 10 temporary hit points and two more, reducing him to 9 HP--which should then promptly be restored to 19 with another charge of the dorje. Wel, it seem from your tactics: Any time Shazz has pinpointed me and is attacking my square, and I can't locate him, A. back away from him, break LOS, B. circle around to approach him from a different angle, making sure to keep cover from his last known location. C. Use this time to renew Vigor and/or Precog if they have expired or been discharged, and to regain focus if I don't have it. ....that you first wanted to back away and break LOS, then if that succeeded circle around (to continue sniping later), and only then renew vigor and/or Precog. That says to me you counted on Shazzelin staying put or also trying to rehide, which he didn't because he followed you, which effectively foiled your tactic (at least, that is my interpretation of course), you never got 'this time'. More minor problems: When within 30', I asked to use a javelin instead of the bow. Since the javelin does an additional 3 points of damage, the hits in rounds 30 and 33 should take off an extra 6 points--unless there's a reason why a javelin won't work in these cases. Plus, PBS applies in these cases, for another 2 points, bringing Shazz down to 3 HP. I think I have a fair chance of winning at this point, at 19 to 3. Stow bow (Move), draw javelin (Move). That is probably why you didn't throw a javelin. But only Dsugui can tell for sure. It doesn't seem the smartest thing to spend a full round doing this to me. Neither tactic was followed regarding melee: Shazzellin was supposed to stay out of melee range at all times (and if that failed, Enlarge and attack with axe), and Sunstroke was supposed to grapple him if Shazz ever got in range. This happened in round 30 (after the invisible strike). Sorry, but I cannot seem to find a active grappling instruction in your tactics anywhere, can you point it out? This is just my brief look at the matter, Dsugui has the final say of course. |
| Argaud04-11-06, 05:18 AM | Dronnar VS Korinel Is finished! I should be able to fix problems(though i hope not) very very late tuesday night, with a very small possibilty of it during the day. I think that was one of the longest fights I've run... I have not checked the whole fight slowly, but I will try this afternoon, but I can see a big mistake here, at the end: Round: 32 Dronnar draws his Falchion, and manifests expansion. Korinel moves to the ground. Dronnar gets an AoO as Korinel drops out of his threat.(Sunder: 9+9bab+8size+4is+4twohand+2animal+1exp+3 7 vs 18+11bab+4twohand=33, 9+12, bow has 1 hp.) Dronnar has no AoO unless Korinel is moving and attacking, which he is not. He should be withdrawing! Korinel basically does nothing this round except moving 10’ down and stand there waiting to be killed! He should have been Withdrawing 10’ down (half his levitation move) then 60’ walking away (once and a half his walking speed) maybe into cover to prevent Dronnar (speed 20' and heavy armor) from running and basing him. Even if Dronnar has an AoO because of reach, Korinel still can escape with a working bow. As a side note, Dronnar 1pp expansion lasts 4 rounds, not 40. It doesn't matter since he dismisses next round. A less important detail here: Round: 35 Korinel swings at Dronnar(9+11 vs 24) and misses. That’s a hit. Dronnar AC is 19 +4 forcescreen +1 Thick skin = 24 (he no longer has DefPrecog). Same happens in round 36, Korinel hits AC 24 for another hit (total damage 4d6+14). Not that it matters, since Korinel shouldn’t be meleeing at all. I find unbelievable Korinel has lost this fight, it should have been easy for him to win :-( Please, look up this when you have time. |
| MysticMonk200504-11-06, 05:59 AM | Dronnar has no AoO unless Korinel is moving and attacking, which he is not. He should be withdrawing! Korinel basically does nothing this round except moving 10’ down and stand there waiting to be killed! He should have been Withdrawing 10’ down (half his levitation move) then 60’ walking away (once and a half his walking speed) maybe into cover to prevent Dronnar (speed 20' and heavy armor) from running and basing him. Even if Dronnar has an AoO because of reach, Korinel still can escape with a working bow. As a side note, Dronnar 1pp expansion lasts 4 rounds, not 40. It doesn't matter since he dismisses next round. I dont think Levitate gives you an actual speed, it allows you to use a move action to go up or down as much as 20' once a round. Thus you can't withdraw down. The plan for Korinel was to land and withdraw next round because withdrawing is a fullround action. If its determined that Levitate allows you to withdraw, he can still get his two hits in by steping back as your descending, attack you after you land, step back forward and your stuck right next to him. A less important detail here: That’s a hit. Dronnar AC is 19 +4 forcescreen +1 Thick skin = 24 (he no longer has DefPrecog). Same happens in round 36, Korinel hits AC 24 for another hit (total damage 4d6+14). Not that it matters, since Korinel shouldn’t be meleeing at all. I find unbelievable Korinel has lost this fight, it should have been easy for him to win :-( Please, look up this when you have time. Now maybe you can tell me how 9+11(20) hits 24. Trust me, when I started this fight I thought that Dronnar didn't stand a chance. However, even though you had a higher hit chance then him he hit way more then you. Sometimes the dice just don't work for you. |
| Vathelokai04-11-06, 06:57 AM | Interesting. Well, at least the backup knockout plan worked - those vials of drow poison are cheap enough. I was rather hoping he wouldn't hear the sleep casting so I could get it off without a problem, but oh well. Thanks for running the fight Vath, looks good! Edit: You forgot one of the scrolls Eraca scribed in the wrap-up though - Scroll of Jump (2 castings) [CL 2nd]: - 50 gp, - 4 xp. Zevox Added. |
| NiQil04-11-06, 07:40 AM | I think it's a little too late to say this, but Valek's favored enemy is dwarf, so he should get +2 damage against War... I am not asking for a rerun or something (it would be a pain in the neck), but if Sauro has some time it would be nice to check it up, I think Valek would drop War early in the fight... If you don't have time (or patience...), I'm Ok with it... Yer correct that it didn't get added in, as far as I can tell....that could change things...however judging by the rolls that are there I am guessing all that is going to do is cause War to spend all of the charges from his wand...if I get time tonight I'll go back through and see what would have changed if Sauro hasn't already. |
| Argaud04-11-06, 08:15 AM | I dont think Levitate gives you an actual speed, it allows you to use a move action to go up or down as much as 20' once a round. Thus you can't withdraw down. The plan for Korinel was to land and withdraw next round because withdrawing is a fullround action. If its determined that Levitate allows you to withdraw, he can still get his two hits in by steping back as your descending, attack you after you land, step back forward and your stuck right next to him. From the SRD: Levitate allows you to move yourself, another creature, or an object up and down as you wish. A creature must be willing to be levitated, and an object must be unattended or possessed by a willing creature. You can mentally direct the recipient to move up or down as much as 20 feet each round; doing so is a move action. You cannot move the recipient horizontally, but the recipient could clamber along the face of a cliff, for example, or push against a ceiling to move laterally (generally at half its base land speed). A move action still allows for a standard action. Which can be another move action too. Moving 40’ away is more than enough to keep away from Dronnar, he moves only 20’. All you need to do is make sure he can’t charge. Trust me, when I started this fight I thought that Dronnar didn't stand a chance. However, even though you had a higher hit chance then him he hit way more then you. Sometimes the dice just don't work for you. You are right, he didn’t stand a chance. Once his potion of invisibility was expended he shouldn’t have been able to get close to Korinel. So the main question is: did you do all you could to prevent melee? Because that was the basic goal of my strategy. However you managed to have Korinel, with a base move twice than Dronnar, involved in a melee combat that he lost in two rounds. Obviously something went very wrong there! Why was Korinel levitating just over Dronnar anyway? It seems a suicidal move considering melee was to be avoided at all costs. |
| Macbrea04-11-06, 08:56 AM | I so, have to remember to add two contingonsies to Marcus! -- If opponent engages him in melee, Steal opponents wands -- And if Opponent has darkness spell up and I cast invisibility. Cast true strike and sneak attack! Sheesh.... |
| DSugui04-11-06, 09:02 AM | I'm afraid there is one, a fairly severe one: why did Sunstroke not renew Vigor the second time it was depleted? The final shot should take away only the 10 temporary hit points and two more, reducing him to 9 HP--which should then promptly be restored to 19 with another charge of the dorje. Sunstroke didn't refresh Vigor cause he didn't got the time. Shazzelin was pressing him, and if he draw the dorje, he would have both hands occupied, and that meant he would get shot every round. More minor problems: When within 30', I asked to use a javelin instead of the bow. Since the javelin does an additional 3 points of damage, the hits in rounds 30 and 33 should take off an extra 6 points--unless there's a reason why a javelin won't work in these cases. Plus, PBS applies in these cases, for another 2 points, bringing Shazz down to 3 HP. I think I have a fair chance of winning at this point, at 19 to 3. Maybe you're right 'bout this one, but let me explain what my though was: both Sunstroke and Shazzelin was low at hp, and one shot could finish everything. You told to always regain focus before shooting, and when Sunstroke regained his focus, I made him shoot right away instead of drawing a javelin and throwing, cause one shot could end the fight. But, even if Sunstroke did use the javelins, Shazzelin would end up with 2 hp, and the result wouldn't change. Neither tactic was followed regarding melee: Shazzellin was supposed to stay out of melee range at all times (and if that failed, Enlarge and attack with axe), and Sunstroke was supposed to grapple him if Shazz ever got in range. This happened in round 30 (after the invisible strike). Well, this is beacuse neither was actually meleeing. Regardless of the distance between them, both were fighting ranged - none said to go melee if the distance was close, only if the other went melee first. But none went melee, so they continued to fight with the bows... I hope I clarifyed the points you brought up. |
| Zevox04-11-06, 09:10 AM | Destra vs Tueor is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8905608&postcount=518). An interesting battle, though if I went overboard on the OOC comments... well, blame television. Okay... well, I have no clue what half of the fight means (Tom who? Brock what? What are these random names? Is some of that even english :confused: ?), but from what I think I've deciphered it looks okay. Darn luck - I was sure he'd go for invisibility, so I forgot to put a conditional in there to ignore the Faerie Fire if he didn't. Having the wand in hand for a grapple was a crucial part of my tactics. And the lousy rolls the Three Fangs got certainly didn't help. *groan* Chalk that one up to uncooperative dice and a tactical oversight, then. Thanks for running it! Zevox, I had to snip your character's religious information to keep it in one post, I hope you don't mind. *shrugs* Of course not - thats there for those interested in the deity and character when looking at Destra's sheet. RP help and all. Talos' dogma is unusually long anyway for a Realms God's. Zevox |
| DSugui04-11-06, 09:16 AM | A move action still allows for a standard action. Which can be another move action too. Moving 40’ away is more than enough to keep away from Dronnar, he moves only 20’. All you need to do is make sure he can’t charge. I don't think this would change much. Dronnar has one AoO when Korinel comes down. Check. Korinel goes down (move) and the move away 40ft (move). Check. Dronnar double moves to base Korinel (2x move). Check. Korinel withdraws - but only the first square isn't considered treatened in a withdraw, and, now large, Dronnar has reach of 10ft, thus receiving another AoO when Korinel moves out 10ft range. Why was Korinel levitating just over Dronnar anyway? It seems a suicidal move considering melee was to be avoided at all costs. I don't think he could do much in this case. Levitating he can only move 20ft - same move Dronnar have. If he wanted to keep distance, Dronnar would keep following, and none would attack until levitate expired... I also didn't expected to win if the fight went to ranged, but it seems I got some pretty lucky rolls that kept Korinel busy healing... Thanks for running, MM2005, my impression is that it was a boring fight to run... |
| Zevox04-11-06, 09:17 AM | -- And if Opponent has darkness spell up and I cast invisibility. Cast true strike and sneak attack! Sheesh.... True Strike wouldn't let him sneak attack. It allows him to ignore the miss chance from concealment, but the concealment is still there and still prevents precision targetting necessary for a sneak attack :) . Zevox |
| Macbrea04-11-06, 09:21 AM | Ah, well.. was glancing at the rolls. Marcus should surrender if you can ever manage to get kill off that sword. As he will have no way of damaging you. From what i can tell though, your going to have gone through about 1/5th of your wand. |
| Zevox04-11-06, 09:31 AM | Ah, well.. was glancing at the rolls. Marcus should surrender if you can ever manage to get kill off that sword. As he will have no way of damaging you. From what i can tell though, your going to have gone through about 1/5th of your wand. *shrugs* Works for me. Asran needs some way to keep his hp existant considering how little his template has left him with at this level, and the wand does its work. He can more than afford a new one even if he used all of it anyway. And yep, that was precisely my plan with the orders to sunder the magic weapons - though from the looks of things Wrath may have you dead by the time Asran gets around to that :P . Zevox |
| SoulLord04-11-06, 09:59 AM | Run No 4 is up. :surrender Thanks for the multiple edits caterane. |
| Macbrea04-11-06, 10:04 AM | Possibly, I have a wand of cure light wounds on me with orders to use it. This could be a 200 round fight! |
| Argaud04-11-06, 10:23 AM | The exhausting Asran vs. Marcus duel has finished here. Check for mistakes, please, but unless they are important do not report, that battle has killed my interest in pitlording for a while :-( I can’t blame the players, they both had very smart tactics, just... very long to run. There was a lot of hours invested in the battle and right now I am not very happy about the pitlording of my character fights lately - seriously considering leaving CoCo. |
| Zevox04-11-06, 10:28 AM | The exhausting Asran vs. Marcus duel has finished here. Check for mistakes, please, but unless they are important do not report, that battle has killed my interest in pitlording for a while :-( I can’t blame the players, they both had very smart tactics, just... very long to run. There was a lot of hours invested in the battle and right now I am not very happy about the pitlording of my character fights lately - seriously considering leaving CoCo. Looks good to me. Once the shortsword was sundered there was nothing Marcus could do. I hope things get better on your end though - sorry to hear your experiences of late have been so bad. Zevox |
| Zevox04-11-06, 10:32 AM | The exhausting Asran vs. Marcus duel has finished here. Check for mistakes, please, but unless they are important do not report, that battle has killed my interest in pitlording for a while :-( I can’t blame the players, they both had very smart tactics, just... very long to run. There was a lot of hours invested in the battle and right now I am not very happy about the pitlording of my character fights lately - seriously considering leaving CoCo. Looks good to me. Once the shortsword was sundered there was nothing Marcus could do. I hope things get better on your end though - sorry to hear your experiences of late have been so bad. Edit: One thing - could you add the free activities to the wrap-up? Asran teaches Malice the attack trick, Marcus steals 180 gp via sleight of hand. Zevox |
| Macbrea04-11-06, 10:37 AM | Looks fine to me. I know Marcus is a pain to pitlord. It is the reason I haven't taken him into the arena before this point. Most of his fights should come out something like that. Also, When you get a chance. Can you add the professions to the fight for both characters. Mine is listed on the character sheet that you posted. |
| Argaud04-11-06, 11:01 AM | Edit: One thing - could you add the free activities to the wrap-up? Asran teaches Malice the attack trick, Marcus steals 180 gp via sleight of hand. I knew I was forgetting something! Done and done :-) |
| Macbrea04-11-06, 11:04 AM | Oh, I just noticed a very minor error if you could change it. but he earns 675gp and 749gp I would assume that was 675xp and 749gp? |
| barrel_master04-11-06, 11:07 AM | Okay, I'm going to edit my dudes now... hope your okay with that Huan and Dsugi. If not please respond or something. |
| DSugui04-11-06, 12:10 PM | Alathar Vierce II (barrel_master) vs. Mizay Alamak (Katana) is up HERE Fight full of mistakes by my part, it was short and bloody... |
| Gonbow04-11-06, 12:29 PM | Okay... well, I have no clue what half of the fight means (Tom who? Brock what? What are these random names? Is some of that even english :confused: ?), but from what I think I've deciphered it looks okay. Darn luck - I was sure he'd go for invisibility, so I forgot to put a conditional in there to ignore the Faerie Fire if he didn't. Having the wand in hand for a grapple was a crucial part of my tactics. And the lousy rolls the Three Fangs got certainly didn't help. *groan* Chalk that one up to uncooperative dice and a tactical oversight, then. Thanks for running it! *shrugs* Of course not - thats there for those interested in the deity and character when looking at Destra's sheet. RP help and all. Talos' dogma is unusually long anyway for a Realms God's. Zevox Well, it has some... obscure references. Essentially, there is a show called 'Venture Twins' on the Adult Swim channel that I decided to parody for the duration of the fight. Brock is a very macho bodyguard from asid show, almost as kick ass as Chuck Norris himself. So.. yeah. It's a little out there, but your summation about gets it. Though the ending was close as your wolves had a good chance to get Tueor to -10 before you hit it yourself. |
| Argaud04-11-06, 12:30 PM | Oh, I just noticed a very minor error if you could change it. but he earns 675gp and 749gp I would assume that was 675xp and 749gp? Yes... man, I am dumb today or what? :-( Fixed. |
| Guildmaster (TLT)04-11-06, 01:16 PM | Sunstroke didn't refresh Vigor cause he didn't got the time. Shazzelin was pressing him, and if he draw the dorje, he would have both hands occupied, and that meant he would get shot every round. Maybe you're right 'bout this one, but let me explain what my though was: both Sunstroke and Shazzelin was low at hp, and one shot could finish everything. You told to always regain focus before shooting, and when Sunstroke regained his focus, I made him shoot right away instead of drawing a javelin and throwing, cause one shot could end the fight. But, even if Sunstroke did use the javelins, Shazzelin would end up with 2 hp, and the result wouldn't change. Well, this is beacuse neither was actually meleeing. Regardless of the distance between them, both were fighting ranged - none said to go melee if the distance was close, only if the other went melee first. But none went melee, so they continued to fight with the bows... I hope I clarifyed the points you brought up.All right, I guess I'll accept that. I just have to be more explicit about my priorities next time. Dang it, I was really hoping for a win there--I lost a lot of money on that fight. |
| MindWandererB04-11-06, 01:27 PM | @DSugui: Oh, one more thing: the warhorse that Shazzelin brought should change the rewards by 8.33%. |
| TheMagister04-11-06, 01:32 PM | So, Gonbow... how's the fight (The White Hand vs. Perius) coming? Any ETA? TM |
| DSugui04-11-06, 01:36 PM | @DSugui: Oh, one more thing: the warhorse that Shazzelin brought should change the rewards by 8.33%. I completely forgot about the horse... Rewards corrected. |
| Abyssal Stalker04-11-06, 02:10 PM | I wont have enough time until tuesday evening, so I would like to give my two fights away. If noone takes them I will finish them Tuesday night => late, but before pairings. Manzarf the Loathsome (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Drac (Dracazar) : lonewolf Hi, and thanks for Pitlording! Old foes meet again, nice to see what happens this time! Start in the front line of my square with the bow in one hand and the drow poison in the other. Apply the drow poison to my armor spikes (guess what I'm trying to do! oh, remember the "don't poison yourself"-roll) and go look for Drac by moving clockwise around the center of the arena. Shoot at Drac if I see him from far. If he's close, go and grapple him and use the armor spikes to deal grapple damage! If and when he goes invisible, make active listen checks to find him. If I hear him, quickdraw scythe and go trip him. With the following attack grapple him! Use the CLW's when needed, but don't waste a good chance to catch Drac. Rage, if I get him grappled (but not before I get a hold of him!). Rage if my hp's drop below 15 and no healing power is left. Oh, if he summons a swarm - run as far as possible! Don't forget my +2 to saves against spells! That's about it, have fun! Sorry about sloppy tactics, I couldn't come up with better ones at the moment... Manzarf the Loathsome (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Drac (Dracazar) : lonewolf 2006 April 05; Thanks for running the fight Objectives: Kill him with spells # [A] Drac (Dracazar) [Power: 2360 (1180); 6 won, 5 lost] Neutral Good Gray Elf Wizard 5; HP 19; AC 13 # [A] Manzarf the Loathsome (Abyssal Stalker) [Power: 2092 (1046); 6 won, 5 lost] Chaotic Evil Dwarf Barbarian1/Fighter4; HP 49; AC 20 Tactic: Here Drac will use a lot of expendables Start in the back of the starting box holding a scroll of Invisibility and scroll of Unseen Servant I think it is allowed to hold 2 scroll and use 1 of them (if not, draw it) Hawk (the familiar) flies up (as much as possible) looking for the foe and doesn't engage him (use cover if able) Hawk will follow the foe from high instance and begin melee only when Drac attacks too Round 1) Cast Invisibility from scroll and move 30' Round 2) Cast Unseen Servant from scroll and draw a scroll of Grease and move 5' to avoid pinpoint The Invisible Servant stay always near Drac Round 3) Draw and Cast scroll of Mage Armor, move 5' Round 4) Draw and Cast scroll of Alter Self(Troglodyte), move 5' Round 5) Draw and Cast scroll of Mirror Image, move 5' Round 6) Draw and Cast scroll of Shield, move 5' Round 7) Draw and Cast scroll of Protection from Evil, move 5' The Invisible Servant stay near Drac Do move action inside buff sequence if Manzarf is too near After buff sequence the stat should be: AC normal 29 ...... [+0 Size, +3 DEX, +6 Armor, +4 Shield, +4 Natural, +2 Deflect] AC touch 15 ....... [+0 Size, +3 DEX, No Armor, No Shield, No Natural, +2 Deflect] AC flatfooted 26 .. [+0 Size, No DEX, +6 Armor, +4 Shield, +4 Natural, +2 Deflect] Now draw longsword and go near foe moving silently (half speed, also servant speed is 15') Cast True Strike(Silent Spell) while near him and then Vampiric Touch When Drac become visible do this: with move action give the scroll of Grease to Unseen Servant this should allow Drac to read and cast the scroll if grappled to escape also tell Hawk familiar to attack and flank the foe The fight continues with Shocking Grasp from memory then move away and Fireball from memory then spells from scrolls (Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, Shocking Grasp) use also Vampiric Touch is low on hp If grapple use the Grapple scroll hold by the servant If unable to do that, then combat and deal damage with dagger If out of Shield or PfEvil or MirrorImage cast again Contingencies: If something breaks the scheme feel free to improvise and use any scroll, they are there to be used! If out of tactic please Play the character, Drac is a very intelligent gray elf wizard Use the 5' step to cast or draw scrolls avoiding AoO, cast defensively only if needed Drac and Hawk (the familiar) use Tumble to avoid any AoO, I repeat use Tumble if able Use Spellcraft to know what spells are casted If nothing in LoS cast See Invisibility Free Activity: Craft(Jewelry) 130 gp Note: If there are evident problems with this tactic please PM me, thanks Anyone helping lonewolf on this one??? |
| lonewolf04-11-06, 02:46 PM | Anyone helping lonewolf on this one??? I am starting it now myself. should be up later this night. |
| Gonbow04-11-06, 04:48 PM | So, Gonbow... how's the fight (The White Hand vs. Perius) coming? Any ETA? TM No concrete ETA, but it should be up tonight. |
| Salrantol04-11-06, 05:05 PM | @Stonetree: I just saw the resolution to Enoch vs Gray Xander and I should note that I specifically wanted to kill the horse if he brought him with him. With the scroll of scorching ray, not by engaging it in melee combat! I've seen horses take on dedicated grappler builds and destroy them! This in my tactics and I feel should be followed. I'd appreciate it if this revision was taken into consideration.He's running away on the mount: Kill it with Scroll of Scorching. Sucker shouldn't have brought the horse.I think he's right, and I would prefer to win fairly. (Although, I doubt Enoch himself would....) |
| TheMagister04-11-06, 05:32 PM | No concrete ETA, but it should be up tonight. Cool. tm |
| Argaud04-11-06, 05:33 PM | I don't think this would change much. Dronnar has one AoO when Korinel comes down. Check. Korinel goes down (move) and the move away 40ft (move). Check. Dronnar double moves to base Korinel (2x move). Check. Korinel withdraws - but only the first square isn't considered treatened in a withdraw, and, now large, Dronnar has reach of 10ft, thus receiving another AoO when Korinel moves out 10ft range. That depends on where exactly has Korinel withdraw. Of course I have no idea of where they were because there are no maps or even positions marked in the posted fight, but given the design of the arena I imagine it would be easy to find a place where Korinel can withdraw with cover within 5'. Cover means no AoO is allowed at all, and he could withdraw again even if Dronnar was large. I repeat and insist, it is utterly unbelievable he was forced into melee. An archer twice as fast as the opponent, with several contingencies in the tactics to avoid precisely that? I simply can’t accept the result of this battle. |
| lonewolf04-11-06, 06:47 PM | Sorry but I need to go to sleep and finish the Manzarf vs Drac fight tomorrow morning. I am posting the current version so you can check for mistakes there. |
| MysticMonk200504-11-06, 07:17 PM | That depends on where exactly has Korinel withdraw. Of course I have no idea of where they were because there are no maps or even positions marked in the posted fight, but given the design of the arena I imagine it would be easy to find a place where Korinel can withdraw with cover within 5'. Cover means no AoO is allowed at all, and he could withdraw again even if Dronnar was large. I repeat and insist, it is utterly unbelievable he was forced into melee. An archer twice as fast as the opponent, with several contingencies in the tactics to avoid precisely that? I simply can’t accept the result of this battle. Positions are listed right after HP every round. The problem with levitate is while your in the air, you cant move around. Neither of you moved later due to the fact that you both had the same movement speed. Due to the fact that he was right next to you, he can double move into your face, then when you try moving away he gets another AoO. You can't withdraw because your not starting in the threatened square. If you had escaped with your bow, then I wounldn't of even bothered with positions anymore, and just rolled for hits. Sometimes you just gotta take what the dice give you. I suggest buying a non-magical backup bow just incase you lose your main one.(Something I need to do for my archers :( ) |
| Argaud04-11-06, 09:30 PM | Positions are listed right after HP every round. The problem with levitate is while your in the air, you cant move around. Neither of you moved later due to the fact that you both had the same movement speed. Due to the fact that he was right next to you, he can double move into your face, then when you try moving away he gets another AoO. You can't withdraw because your not starting in the threatened square. If you had escaped with your bow, then I wounldn't of even bothered with positions anymore, and just rolled for hits. Sometimes you just gotta take what the dice give you. I suggest buying a non-magical backup bow just incase you lose your main one.(Something I need to do for my archers :( ) Okay, so I am going to ignore that Korinel was pretty badly positioned for the tactics I wrote, or that he could have tossed a tanglefoot bag before going down, or activated Skate. Lets just say he goes down at 23, 6 and takes an AoO from Dronnar, who is large, at 22, 6. This is the position you have marked in the post in the fight. Here: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kori,M,23,6;b=Dron,L,22,6 He moves down 10’ by levitating, his bow is almost destroyed but not quite, then he moves 40’ to 23, 6 here: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kori,M,23,6,26,9,26,13;b= Dron,L,22,6 Dronnar can’t charge because the rock, but could base him, yes. Like this for instance: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kori,M,26,13;b=Dron,L,22, 6,24,14 But Korinel can withdraw to 26, 12, gaining cover from the rock, and then keep withdrawing without provoking an AoO up to 75’ away more. Dronnar could base him from the other direction: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kori,M,26,13;b=Dron,L,22, 6,26,10,26,12 But Korinel could withdraw to 25, 13, gaining cover, and then move away another 75’ without drawing any AoO. Therefore, if the bow survives the sunder, Korinel can keep away from Dronnar and return the fight to a ranged duel. |
| barrel_master04-11-06, 09:57 PM | Huan http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8912645 I could be wrong but I think I get 66gp from my profession skill. |
| graymocker04-11-06, 10:39 PM | Because one of my game groups had a similar argument a few sessions ago: Therefore, if the bow survives the [first] sunder, Korinel can keep away from Dronnar and return the fight to a ranged duel. Withdrawing from melee combat is a full-round action. When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square. <snip> If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal. Since Dronnar is large, I presume he has reach. Given that, pretty much any way you move, you will draw two AoO's, one for levitating down and another one on the ground, as when he bases you a withdraw is not sufficient to avoid AoO. I haven't looked too closely at the fight in question, but I think you will have better luck contending that those last few rounds of levitate should have been spent on something other than healing, IMO. *shrug* |
| Argaud04-11-06, 10:54 PM | Because one of my game groups had a similar argument a few sessions ago: Since Dronnar is large, I presume he has reach. Given that, pretty much any way you move, you will draw two AoO's, one for levitating down and another one on the ground, as when he bases you a withdraw is not sufficient to avoid AoO. He has no combat reflexes, so it does not matter how many AoOs Korinel draws in one round, Dronnar can only attack once. I haven't looked too closely at the fight in question, but I think you will have better luck contending that those last few rounds of levitate should have been spent on something other than healing, IMO. *shrug* Nobody can AoO to someone with cover. Korinel can withdraw to cover in the first 5' of his movement, and it works because he avoid the first AoO by withdrawing. Then he can move from the space with cover to out of Dronnar's range. That are pretty basic tactics. |
| MysticMonk200504-11-06, 10:57 PM | I didn't know about cover preventing AoO, so I'll take a closer look at possible movements by both combatants when i get home. But I'm not promising a edit since its so late. |
| DSugui04-12-06, 12:17 AM | Okay, so I am going to ignore that Korinel was pretty badly positioned for the tactics I wrote, or that he could have tossed a tanglefoot bag before going down, or activated Skate. Lets just say he goes down at 23, 6 and takes an AoO from Dronnar, who is large, at 22, 6. This is the position you have marked in the post in the fight. Here: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kori,M,23,6;b=Dron,L,22,6 He moves down 10’ by levitating, his bow is almost destroyed but not quite, then he moves 40’ to 23, 6 here: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kori,M,23,6,26,9,26,13;b= Dron,L,22,6 Dronnar can’t charge because the rock, but could base him, yes. Like this for instance: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kori,M,26,13;b=Dron,L,22, 6,24,14 But Korinel can withdraw to 26, 12, gaining cover from the rock, and then keep withdrawing without provoking an AoO up to 75’ away more. Dronnar could base him from the other direction: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kori,M,26,13;b=Dron,L,22, 6,26,10,26,12 But Korinel could withdraw to 25, 13, gaining cover, and then move away another 75’ without drawing any AoO. Therefore, if the bow survives the sunder, Korinel can keep away from Dronnar and return the fight to a ranged duel. All these only consider double move. Dronnar still could run as a full round action to get a position where Korinel coudn't withdraw without provoking. Like this: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Kori,M,26,13;b=Dron,L,22, 6,27,13 |
| MysticMonk200504-12-06, 02:25 AM | sorry argaud, but after looking at the map, I cant find anywhere you go to escape two hits. If either of those two had missed, you would very very very likely of won.(assuming you don't miss with all your remaining arrows.) |
| Ravashack04-12-06, 04:08 AM | I PMed the following to Gonbow in case he does not see it in here the morning. ------------------------------------ Getting Enervated does NOT make the power fail. The only penalties from Enervation are getting dazed and losing PP equal to the Wilder's manifester level (and not getting Euphoria from that manifestation attempt). The power still goes off. So Perius is missing +3 to hit on almost every single attack. That means the critical in Round 9 is confirmed and Round 12 hits. In addition, Perius is supposed to be attacking defensively when meleeing in tactics. That means TWH never lands a hit in melee because of the additional +3 dodge bonus, and Perius's total to hit bonus in melee is +5 after factoring in Offensive Precognition. Thirdly, the Shield spell and an actual Shield do NOT stack. They both provide a Shield bonus. TWH's AC only goes up by 1. Edit: Went over again more thoroughly before bed just in case because I figured I must have been wrong on mistakes from being tired and found mistakes of corrections. I hate auditing. :P Perius's Ranged To hit bonuses: +8 from sheet, +2 from Bolts +3 (overlap of enhancement bonuses), +3 from Offensive Precognition, total +13 for first 4 shots, +10 after. Perius's Melee to hit bonuses: +6 from sheet, +3 from Offensive Precognition, -4 from Fighting Defensively. Total bonus +5. TWH's AC bonuses: 17 without Shield, +3 Shield, +6 Nat. from Troglodyte Form. Total is AC 23 without Shield/26. Perius's AC bonuses: 20 without Shield, +3 Shield, +3 Dodge from fighting Defensively and 5+ Tumble ranks. Total is 23 without Shield/26. Perius's base damage is 1d8+1 for melee, 1d8 for the crossbow, and +3 from the manifested crossbow bolts. Round 7--Perius's attack bonus is listed as +10, not +13. No change. Round 9--Perius's attack bonus is listed as +10, not +13. Critical hit is confirmed with the extra +3. Perius is hitting way too hard though--actual damage rolled should be 2d8+6. Round 11--Perius's attack bonus is listed as +10, not +13. No change. TWH's AC should be 26 for the round. Round 12--Perius's attack bonus is listed as +11, not +14. No change. TWH's AC should be 26 for the round. Rounds 14+: Perius's attack bonus should be +5, not +6, as per tactic request to fight defensively. Also Perius's AC should be 26, not 23 as a result. TWH's AC should be listed as 26 (except when Shield is cast), not 23. This caused my initial confusion when his AC shot up by 4 suddenly. Thus none of TWH's full attacks hit at all because he does not roll a 26 or higher on any of them. Otherwise if the request to fight defensively is ignored, Perius has a +9 to attack and still does not hit anything. Round 16: Perius is hitting way too hard. Damage should be 9, not 13. That's is all the errors I can find in my current sleepy state. Given that TWH cannot seem to land a hit on an AC that high, Perius is not likely to surrender. Sorry. |
| TheMagister04-12-06, 06:49 AM | Ravashack is right on all counts (especially that he's hitting too hard!). Ravashack, I think Gonbow confused Offensive Precognition with Offensive Prescience (which I know *I love), gaining you the extra +4 to damage. One thing: Improved feint! Pretty please! My character is built around denying dex and dodge to AC and using SA for the extra damage. I don't want you to go back and change anything (looking over my tactics, I don't think I specifically mentioned doing Imp. Feint), but when TWH misses for like, a dozen rounds... Maybe intelligence checks? Wisdom checks? Something? 'Preciate it. TM |
| lonewolf04-12-06, 07:25 AM | Manzarf vs Drac is finished. |
| StoneTree04-12-06, 07:41 AM | Unfortunately I must ask that you edit something in. In round 13 and 14 Featylec should have been healing with the wand, if you'll note this part of my tactics: On average rolls, that healing lets him survive Riana's round 15 attack, meaning hes still in the game. Technically that also means Featylec should have healed again in round 11, since he was at only 18 hp, not 21, but I'm not very concerned about that. Zevox Yeah, sorry about that. At that point your wand was about fifteen feet behind you on the ground, and your opponent was a single blow away from defeat. Even with the lowered to hit from fighting defensively, your odds for hitting were greater than his, and had you healed those two rounds you probably would have healed just about as much as you had taken damage, leaving you in the same situation you had been when you started. So, I made a value judgement and made you press for victory, but didn't make a value judgement vis-a-vis the defensive fighting. And so--down you go. Regardless, I would like to fix this for you--but I just didn't have the time before deadline. I was barely able to complete my two fights as is. As pitlording takes more time than I thought it did, I've already requested a reduction in the number of fights I receive. I hope to avoid this kind of thing in the future. |
| Dracazar04-12-06, 07:47 AM | Manzarf vs Drac is finished. May you explain how Manzarf pinpoint the invisible Drac? from the dice roll I see no pinpoint also I clearly asked "Do move action inside buff sequence if Manzarf is too near" this would have prevented the pinpoint |
| lonewolf04-12-06, 08:21 AM | May you explain how Manzarf pinpoint the invisible Drac? from the dice roll I see no pinpoint also I clearly asked "Do move action inside buff sequence if Manzarf is too near" this would have prevented the pinpoint Drac did 3 move actions to get away from Manzarf, but the dwarf made quite good listen rolls and thus followed Drac everywhere. In the last round he knew where Drac is by running into him while trying to attack the square north-east from Dracs real position. |
| StoneTree04-12-06, 08:23 AM | http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/shieldofFaith.htm[/URL] I never mention in my tactics anything about spotting the Force Screen for the reason that it's invisible. He only has 2 potions: SoF and Jump. It would not take Spellcraft to tell the difference between those two. Characters are assumed to know the full loadout of their opponent? Huh. I guess that makes sense in a metagamey sort of way as unavoidable, and you might as well admit to everything to even the playingfield between the people who use that information and those who don't--ah, well. And as for the delaying the inevitable bit, I only put it like that assuming your character thought your opponent's AC wasn't going to drop... that was because I was assuming your character didn't know how magic spells worked (having no spells, no spellcraft or psicraft, and no expendables with a temporary effect) and was judging off of her own powers--but now that I think about it, there's this big arena in town, isn't there? Where all kinds of people show off all kinds of abilities every week, and there's beer and peanuts for sale. So familiarity with pretty much any ability is entirely justifiable. Huh. In the future--I do better! |
| Dracazar04-12-06, 08:27 AM | Drac did 3 move actions to get away from Manzarf, but the dwarf made quite good listen rolls and thus followed Drac everywhere. In the last round he knew where Drac is by running into him while trying to attack the square north-east from Dracs real position. What does mean "he knew where Drac is by running into him while trying to attack the square north-east from Dracs real position"? Is this your home-rule? If he attack the wrong square he doesn't know the real position, there is also a rule in the SRD to check two adjacent squares but you didn't used it. And also Drac should move away (as for tactic) if Manz is adjacent to him. Also for the OVERRUN: Step 2: Opponent Avoids? The defender has the option to simply avoid you. If he avoids you, he doesn’t suffer any ill effect and you may keep moving (You can always move through a square occupied by someone who lets you by.) The overrun attempt doesn’t count against your actions this round (except for any movement required to enter the opponent’s square). If your opponent doesn’t avoid you, move to Step 3. Drac avoids Manzarf and he should "keep moving" and doesn't know the real position |
| lonewolf04-12-06, 08:41 AM | Im trying to explain it to you: | | | | | | | | | | | | | |X| | | | | | |D| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |M| | | | | | Manzarf was at position M and his turn has just started. He tought that Drac was on square X because of his listen result. So he wanted to move onto square D and attack square X, but Drac is really on square D. So even if Drac would try to avoid Manzarfs "Overrun" they would end up on the same square, which isnt possible. This situation isnt covered by the rules AFAIK, so I had to improvise. |
| Dracazar04-12-06, 08:46 AM | Manzarf was at position M and his turn has just started. He tought that Drac was on square X because of his listen result. So he wanted to move onto square D and attack square X, but Drac is really on square D. So even if Drac would try to avoid Manzarfs "Overrun" they would end up on the same square, which isnt possible. This situation isnt covered by the rules AFAIK, so I had to improvise. And then? You say that it isn't possible to end up in the same square and so you ruled that Manzart pinpoint Drac to solve the problem? I think that this is obviously wrong, Manzarf failed pinpointing and it should remains a failed pinpoint. |
| Argaud04-12-06, 09:02 AM | sorry argaud, but after looking at the map, I cant find anywhere you go to escape two hits. If either of those two had missed, you would very very very likely of won.(assuming you don't miss with all your remaining arrows.) I am not going to argue anymore, I came here looking for a fun game and I end up arguing with the pitlords more time than I spend writing tactics. I had a good battle record two weeks, but it seems I got it only by pointing the mistakes of the pitlords in half the battles and how they ignore the tactics given. Having to do that to win is not fun. But I feel cheated of an easy victory by a pitlord that (again) paid minimal attention to the tactics given and maneuvered my character into an unwinnable position, violating the basic premise given and repeated several times in the tactics. This time I can’t be told I wasn’t clear, actually I think I could be told that I was rude by the insistence. @MysticMonkey2005, please, do not pitlord another fight with one of my characters. Ask Cat to switch you to another pairing if one is assigned to you. I will do the same if one of your characters appears in a fight that is assigned to me. I don’t think I would do a fair job pitlording your characters, the temptation to quickly putting them in a losing position to make sure they don’t win would simply be too great. Edited to add that the rewards for Korinel are incorrect. As a level 5 fight they should be 500xp and 533gp, and then a mention could be done to the 90gp he earns crafting. He also spent a potion of Levitation. Dronnar also earns some cash with his proession, btw. |
| TheMagister04-12-06, 09:21 AM | I feel your pain, dude. Hang in there. TM |
| Turin04-12-06, 09:26 AM | I am not going to argue anymore, I came here looking for a fun game and I end up arguing with the pitlords more time than I spend writing tactics. I had a good battle record two weeks, but it seems I got it only by pointing the mistakes of the pitlords in half the battles and how they ignore the tactics given. Having to do that to win is not fun. But I feel cheated of an easy victory by a pitlord that (again) paid minimal attention to the tactics given and maneuvered my character into an unwinnable position, violating the basic premise given and repeated several times in the tactics. This time I can’t be told I wasn’t clear, actually I think I could be told that I was rude by the insistence. @MysticMonkey2005, please, do not pitlord another fight with one of my characters. Ask Cat to switch you to another pairing if one is assigned to you. I will do the same if one of your characters appears in a fight that is assigned to me. I don’t think I would do a fair job pitlording your characters, the temptation to quickly putting them in a losing position to make sure they don’t win would simply be too great.Oh for crying out loud, lighten up Argaud! MM kept you at range for as long as he could, and then you got stuck in melee when your levitate wore off and you found yourself floating right into the threatened area of your opponent. He healed as per your healing contingencies. If he had you do something other than heal when you requested, you'd be complaining about that instead. He's reviewed the possibility of retreat in good faith and nothing you can do at this point is going to save you. Give him a break... this kind of baby-talk is why we have trouble keeping Pitlords on... it's just not worth the hassle. |
| lonewolf04-12-06, 10:12 AM | And then? You say that it isn't possible to end up in the same square and so you ruled that Manzart pinpoint Drac to solve the problem? I think that this is obviously wrong, Manzarf failed pinpointing and it should remains a failed pinpoint. You mean after physically touching Drac by running into him, he should still have no idea on which square he is? Im sorry that you disagree here, but this is a ruling I will not reverse unless I see a valid rule that covers this special case, or an elder asking me to change. |
| Argaud04-12-06, 10:21 AM | Give him a break... this kind of baby-talk is why we have trouble keeping Pitlords on... it's just not worth the hassle. Honestly, pitlording would be much fun for me if I knew the pitlords on my fights devoted as much time as I do making sure the wishes of the players are respected, even if that means several more hours of work. (Check Asram vs. Marcus this week if you don't believe me). As it is, I am severely disappointing and I won't pitlord this week. It is not worth the hassle, indeed. Too much work to do it well when I don't see that interest when my character if fighting. Let me remind you what just happened: An archer lost a fight with a melee character, even though he was twice as fast! Do you want me to believe the pitlord did all what he could to avoid the melee? Don't make me laugh. At the end the problem is that I am not having fun. Which will probably lead me to leave the CoCo soon. But I am going to give it another week instead of making a rushed decision being upset. |
| Dracazar04-12-06, 10:25 AM | You mean after physically touching Drac by running into him, he should still have no idea on which square he is? Im sorry that you disagree here, but this is a ruling I will not reverse unless I see a valid rule that covers this special case, or an elder asking me to change. There is no physical contact, Drac "avoids" contact as for overrun rule. You ruled that a failed pinpoint becomes a successfull pinpoint even without contact. Also in the PHB p148: Accidently Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: With regard to the avoid option, Manzarf ends up in an adjactend square |
| lonewolf04-12-06, 11:07 AM | There is no physical contact, Drac "avoids" contact as for overrun rule. You ruled that a failed pinpoint becomes a successfull pinpoint even without contact. Also in the PHB p148: Accidently Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: With regard to the avoid option, Manzarf ends up in an adjactend square Manzarfs move ends in an illegal square and thus he has to end up in the adjacent square. But the only way that Manzarf can "know" that the square he is in is illegal, is that he touched Drac. And IMHO avoiding a bullrush doesnt automatically mean not touching each other. Its just not hindering each other. A 5 ft square is a very small place for 2 characters. |
| Dracazar04-12-06, 11:39 AM | Manzarfs move ends in an illegal square and thus he has to end up in the adjacent square. But the only way that Manzarf can "know" that the square he is in is illegal, is that he touched Drac. And IMHO avoiding a bullrush doesnt automatically mean not touching each other. Its just not hindering each other. A 5 ft square is a very small place for 2 characters. At this point I think I will not add more, It is obvious that you are firm on your home-rule. Here there is no bullrush or overrun but a simple move action. And even with overrun is is clearly written that the defender has the option to simply avoid you, and avoid means no touch. Your home-rule was clearly a disadvantage for one of the fighters because a failed pinpoint became a successfull pinpoint by your decision. |
| SoulLord04-12-06, 11:42 AM | think of it this way If you saw the whole action instead of splitting it by rounds character A moved searching for his opponent passing next to him character B just lets him pass on his way. perhaps a listen check vs a move silently check as he moves out of the way? |
| Abyssal Stalker04-12-06, 11:50 AM | perhaps a listen check vs a move silently check as he moves out of the way? I think that this would be a reasonable ruling. I don't see lonewolf's ruling wrong either, but if it seems that wrong to Dracazar, then it needs to be fixed as there is no official rule for the situation. On the other hand, I think that Manzarf's armor spikes should deal damage in the grapple and the poison to take effect! The fight incorrectly says that Manzarf is using a spiked gauntlet, it should be armor spikes! And armor spikes deal damage in grapple as per the SRD, I don't need to hit the opponents AC! Armor Spikes You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a -4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) |
| Gonbow04-12-06, 02:04 PM | @Ravashack, TheMagister Ahh. Yeah, I confused Prescience with Precognition. I'll go in and make the edits. And yes, I realized I wasn't putting in the fighting defensively after I posted it last night, I'll change that as well. Meh. I really don't want to do a battle of natural 20's... Do you KNOW how long those take? :P Anyways, editing now. |
| lonewolf04-12-06, 03:12 PM | @Abyssal Stalker: youre right, I had mistaken those two. But since you won he fight at the moment anyway, I will only edit this in, if there is need for another edit anyway. |
| Turin04-12-06, 03:30 PM | Let me remind you what just happened: An archer lost a fight with a melee character, because his levitate spell ran out and dropped him right on top of the melee character!Fixed that for you. At the end the problem is that I am not having fun. Which will probably lead me to leave the CoCo soon. But I am going to give it another week instead of making a rushed decision being upset.Well, look, that's your perogative... but I'd like to point out that pretty much everyone here has had a match they've lost to pitlords "misintepreting their tactics." It happens, and you can't let yourself get too worked up over the W/L record, otherwise you're almost definitely not going to have a very good time, IMO. I come here to have fun messing around with some slightly different builds, stuff I wouldn't neccessarily get to play in TT gaming (especially now that my group has broken up due to job transfers and whatnot :weep: ). And I pitlord because it's fun, too. When it isn't fun is when a player, despite the work you've put in to pitlording his fight, decides to get bent out of shape about a interpretation of tactics or ruling. In TT gaming, those players tend to get the boot. I'd recommend taking a deep breath and remembering the old adage about it being "just a game." Then get your gladiator ready for next week and have fun. Relax, man. |
| MindWandererB04-12-06, 03:47 PM | I'll have to agree with Turin. It's happened to me, too--characters like Harvey with a perfect record are due to three things: a good build, a good strategy, and good communication of that strategy to the pitlord. And sometimes the pitlord will make dumb mistakes with your tactics, but just as often you will. I lost a fight this week because I said "if my opponent closes to melee" instead of "if my opponent closes to melee range." One word, probably cost me the fight. And I'll admit that. I have had other fights where my tactics were blatantly bastardized, and I'll argue those. But by and large, the poor pitlords either get better or stop pitlording. If you are only having fun when you win, then I have to wonder whether such a competitive environment is right for you. In the CoCo, you will, on average, lose a lot. Only one character has a 12-0 record, and that character's player is the GM--and has four other characters with Great Reknown. Pittbull has two characters with Great Reknown, and no one else has more than one. King Uther's Alagar is the runner-up on perfect records, with 8-0, and K.U. doesn't have any other characters with Great Reknown. So, you live and learn. Cat does what he does because he's the man. None of the rest of us manage to do quite as well. And if you look at the list of "old" characters, even Cat has had a couple of characters with not particularly good records (although Harvey 1, who was, I believe, the very first CoCo character, has a pretty sweet record). If you're playing this to win right off the bat, you're playing for the wrong reason. If you want to improve--and I bet next time you have a fight like this one, you'll skip Levitation and stick to running around--then you're in good shape. |
| Gonbow04-12-06, 04:00 PM | Perius vs the White hand is finished and up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8914769&postcount=524) (Sheets) and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8918748&postcount=525) (Fight proper) |
| TheMagister04-12-06, 04:11 PM | Perius vs the White hand is finished and up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8914769&postcount=524) (Sheets) and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8918748&postcount=525) (Fight proper) Cool beans. Um... TWH's AC after the Heavy Shield is 26. A lot of those Perius attacks miss. I'll go and count so as to save CLW charges. Thanks for running the fight!! It must've taken ages with all those rolls. TM |
| TheMagister04-12-06, 04:17 PM | You know what? Nevermind. It's not worth it. =) It's only 15 charges used total, and I'd probably only gain back 6-7. Good job, man. We appreciate you! TM |
| Ravashack04-12-06, 04:25 PM | Perius vs the White hand is finished and up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8914769&postcount=524) (Sheets) and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8918748&postcount=525) (Fight proper) Thanks Gonbow. :) Edit: Magister: The 25s are natural 20s. |
| MysticMonk200504-12-06, 04:42 PM | Im sorry you feel so strongly about this loss, but I feel that I ran both tactics to the best of my ability. My two best builds right now are archers and take a look at thier records, Pard and Lissa. Pard for a while was known as one of the worst characters in the CoCo. He even lost to a character who didn't own a single ranged weapon. Lissa made great reknown for one or two weeks in ECL8, but shes back to about average. This is honestly the first fight that I've pitlorded where anyone has complained about it, before now I've just had a couple changes that need to made. Your character would of won if you had hit alot more, but you didn't. I realy hope that this doesn't make it so that your not having any fun here. Also fight as been updated with correct rewards. |
| TheMagister04-12-06, 05:30 PM | Thanks Gonbow. :) Edit: Magister: The 25s are natural 20s. Really? Ok then. I started to care, and then put myself in Gonbow's place and pity overcame greed. :D Still, it's a shame he didn't let TWH improved feint with a claw attack. I know I didn't specify that in my tactics, but it's not a huge mental leap when you're whiffing on a guy for going on 4 minutes. The loss of your dex/dodge boni might have speeded things up considerably. Oh well. Good fight, dude. Lucky save there vs. the shield's blinding ability, btw. TM |
| Ravashack04-12-06, 05:48 PM | Really? Ok then. I started to care, and then put myself in Gonbow's place and pity overcame greed. :D Still, it's a shame he didn't let TWH improved feint with a claw attack. I know I didn't specify that in my tactics, but it's not a huge mental leap when you're whiffing on a guy for going on 4 minutes. The loss of your dex/dodge boni might have speeded things up considerably. Oh well. Good fight, dude. Lucky save there vs. the shield's blinding ability, btw. TM Thanks. It actually wouldn't have mattered because Touchsight bypasses the total concealment effect from being blinded (i.e. he'd still know where you were and what you're trying to do from feeling you up /cough, so no Dex denial). Perius didn't need to "see" until 50 rounds later. Part of the reason why I'm going very light on expendables is because of these 80+ round fights, but this is a case where I can see having a Crystal Shard Dorje that I changed my mind on getting would have been extremely useful. Using it every round would have kept your healing contingency going except on the string of 1s, and hitting ranged touch AC is one of Perius's few strong points. I don't remember if augmented Dorjes were allowed without credits though. |
| Gonbow04-12-06, 05:56 PM | @TheMagister Gah! Damnable AC errors :P But yeah, a surprisingly large number of Perius' hits were natural 20's anyways, so it wouldn't have mattered a whole lot. Sorry nonetheless. @Ravashack I can understand wanting to go expendable lite, but dorjes/wands are very cost efficient. I'd highly suggest picking one up. Dorje of Crystal Shard + Psionic Medidtation + Psionic Shot = Nice damage potential. |
| TheMagister04-12-06, 05:59 PM | Thanks. It actually wouldn't have mattered because Touchsight bypasses the total concealment effect from being blinded (i.e. he'd still know where you were and what you're trying to do from feeling you up /cough, so no Dex denial). Perius didn't need to "see" until 50 rounds later. Part of the reason why I'm going very light on expendables is because of these 80+ round fights, but this is a case where I can see having a Crystal Shard Dorje that I changed my mind on getting would have been extremely useful. Using it every round would have kept your healing contingency going except on the string of 1s, and hitting ranged touch AC is one of Perius's few strong points. I don't remember if augmented Dorjes were allowed without credits though. We're in the same boat, then. I'm saving up for either a 1)wand of scorching ray or a 2) crystal mask (+5 to Use Psionic Device), and I'm still making up my mind. Power or Versatility? It's a good problem. :D If we're gonna abuse the system, a UMD/UPD rogue is just the fella to do it. I'm beginning to think that even my upcoming feats are going to focus in that direction. |
| TheMagister04-12-06, 06:04 PM | @TheMagister Gah! Damnable AC errors :P But yeah, a surprisingly large number of Perius' hits were natural 20's anyways, so it wouldn't have mattered a whole lot. Sorry nonetheless. Don't sweat it, dude. Personally, I loathe Alter Self as it is written. The spell should not be that darned good! However, TWH has lost a couple matches to Alter Self, and so he's jumping on the bandwagon just to remain competitive. Thanks again for the run. TM |
| Ravashack04-12-06, 06:11 PM | @TheMagister Gah! Damnable AC errors :P But yeah, a surprisingly large number of Perius' hits were natural 20's anyways, so it wouldn't have mattered a whole lot. Sorry nonetheless. @Ravashack I can understand wanting to go expendable lite, but dorjes/wands are very cost efficient. I'd highly suggest picking one up. Dorje of Crystal Shard + Psionic Medidtation + Psionic Shot = Nice damage potential. As per Luni's ruling, we're not allowed to use Psionic Shot like that if I recall correctly, since using Psionic Shot is a standard action, you're allowed to fire an attack as part of that action, and using a Dorje is something totally different. That's what made me change my mind and why I'm wondering about augmented Dorjes now. Now if someone wants to overturn that ruling I'd buy one in a heart beat. A ML 2 Crystal Shard Dorje though would give a nice amount of damage/cost at least and still be in Perius's budget. |
| MindWandererB04-12-06, 06:44 PM | As per Luni's ruling, we're not allowed to use Psionic Shot like that if I recall correctly, since using Psionic Shot is a standard action, you're allowed to fire an attack as part of that action, and using a Dorje is something totally different. That's what made me change my mind and why I'm wondering about augmented Dorjes now. Now if someone wants to overturn that ruling I'd buy one in a heart beat. A ML 2 Crystal Shard Dorje though would give a nice amount of damage/cost at least and still be in Perius's budget.Actually, Luni's ruling was a bit weirder than that. She said that you can perform the attack and use the feat as part of the same standard action, which would prevent using two feats at once, or the feat as part of a full attack. There's still no reason why you can't use a dorje with Psionic Shot. And for the record, most pitlords are ignoring that ruling anyway (I got hit this week with Rapid Shot+Psionic Shot, which per Luni is illegal). Augmented dorjes are subject to no special restrictions in the CoCo rules. They may be at any ML--but note, per the Errata for the XPH, that augmentations to even-numbered ML's are rounded up, so, for instance, an ML2 Crystal Shard dorje would cost 3000 gp. |
| Ravashack04-12-06, 07:28 PM | Actually, Luni's ruling was a bit weirder than that. She said that you can perform the attack and use the feat as part of the same standard action, which would prevent using two feats at once, or the feat as part of a full attack. There's still no reason why you can't use a dorje with Psionic Shot. And for the record, most pitlords are ignoring that ruling anyway (I got hit this week with Rapid Shot+Psionic Shot, which per Luni is illegal). Augmented dorjes are subject to no special restrictions in the CoCo rules. They may be at any ML--but note, per the Errata for the XPH, that augmentations to even-numbered ML's are rounded up, so, for instance, an ML2 Crystal Shard dorje would cost 3000 gp. Ouch. OK, then I guess I'll buy a ML1 one next week for close combat. :D |
| TheMagister04-12-06, 07:42 PM | Actually, Luni's ruling was a bit weirder than that. She said that you can perform the attack and use the feat as part of the same standard action, which would prevent using two feats at once, or the feat as part of a full attack. There's still no reason why you can't use a dorje with Psionic Shot. And for the record, most pitlords are ignoring that ruling anyway (I got hit this week with Rapid Shot+Psionic Shot, which per Luni is illegal). Augmented dorjes are subject to no special restrictions in the CoCo rules. They may be at any ML--but note, per the Errata for the XPH, that augmentations to even-numbered ML's are rounded up, so, for instance, an ML2 Crystal Shard dorje would cost 3000 gp. Wow, that's REALLY inexpensive! A wand that puts out that kind of damage is significatly more expensive, right? Also, has it been ruled anywhere that Use Psionic Device is a class skill for Rogues/Bards? TM |
| MindWandererB04-12-06, 08:38 PM | Wow, that's REALLY inexpensive! A wand that puts out that kind of damage is significatly more expensive, right? Also, has it been ruled anywhere that Use Psionic Device is a class skill for Rogues/Bards?Well, let's see. 1d6 is the same damage, on average, as 1d4+1. Dorje of Crystal ShardA [ML2]: 3000 gp, 2d6 damage, short range, can miss. Wand of Magic Missiles [CL3]: 2250 gp, 2d4+2 damage, medium range, can't miss, force damage. So your answer is: no. Psionic Shot, however, makes it worthwhile (although the range is still a problem). But with Psionic Shot, ML1 is much better (750 gp for 3d6, 3000 gp for 4d6). And UPD is not a class skill for rogues or bards. I've seen this on here before, but it barely bears mentioning--it's not listed, so they don't have it. |
| Ravashack04-12-06, 09:31 PM | Well, let's see. 1d6 is the same damage, on average, as 1d4+1. Dorje of Crystal ShardA [ML2]: 3000 gp, 2d6 damage, short range, can miss. Wand of Magic Missiles [CL3]: 2250 gp, 2d4+2 damage, medium range, can't miss, force damage. So your answer is: no. Psionic Shot, however, makes it worthwhile (although the range is still a problem). But with Psionic Shot, ML1 is much better (750 gp for 3d6, 3000 gp for 4d6). And UPD is not a class skill for rogues or bards. I've seen this on here before, but it barely bears mentioning--it's not listed, so they don't have it. Pretty much my line of thought, yes. |
| TheMagister04-13-06, 09:52 AM | Well, let's see. 1d6 is the same damage, on average, as 1d4+1. Dorje of Crystal ShardA [ML2]: 3000 gp, 2d6 damage, short range, can miss. Wand of Magic Missiles [CL3]: 2250 gp, 2d4+2 damage, medium range, can't miss, force damage. So your answer is: no. Psionic Shot, however, makes it worthwhile (although the range is still a problem). But with Psionic Shot, ML1 is much better (750 gp for 3d6, 3000 gp for 4d6). And UPD is not a class skill for rogues or bards. I've seen this on here before, but it barely bears mentioning--it's not listed, so they don't have it. Makes sense. I'm trying to decide between two same-cost wands: Wand of Acid Arrow (ML3) and Wand of Scorching Ray (ML3). TWH needs a Direct Damage wand that requires a ranged touch attack so that he can add his sneak attack dice to the damage roll (kinda like psionic shot, but harder to achieve circumstances in which it would apply). On the one hand, you've got Melf's - the gift that keeps on giving - which deals 2d4+3d6 (by the time he can afford it) + 2d4 the following round = ~22 damage (I scaled up the avg 3.5 on the SA because of TWH's Deadly Precision feat) vs. Scorching ray deals 4d6 (fire) + 3d6 (SA) = ~26 damage per sneak attack. Now, the pros and cons of this are: Melf's is LONG range. Aside from the sneak attack dice, TWH could use this to pick opponents apart at long range and force concentration checks vs. continuous damage. Further, there will be rounds that the opponent actually takes 4d4 damage a round because of Melf's neat stacking effect. If I could afford it, I'd buy a ML 6 wand of Melf's and pay the credits. That's just a LOT of d4's. Maybe a wand of extended melf's? Hmmm... CL5 x SL 3 x 750gp = 11250gp, and the arrow would last for 4 rounds, netting 8d4 of acid damage with an additional stacking 2d4 per consecutive hit. The cost is the same as a 3rd level wand. Is there a 3rd level ray spell to compare it to? Scorching ray, however, is high damage output fast. It's hard to beat 4d6 for CL 3 x SL 2 x 750gp = 4500gp. The cons to this one are the short range and the prevalence of fire resistance. The pro, of course, is the price. The most inexpensive damage increase for this one is simply to raise the caster level, but that involves two touch attacks, and still only one incident of SA dice (considered a volley, right?). I'm still on the fence. TM |
| Vathelokai04-13-06, 10:00 AM | Here's the tie breaker... Acid arrow bypasses spell resistance, since it is a conjuration and not an evocation. ;) |
| TheMagister04-13-06, 11:10 AM | Here's the tie breaker... Acid arrow bypasses spell resistance, since it is a conjuration and not an evocation. ;) AH! That'd do it. Thanks! TM |