Post/Author/DateTime	Post
King Uther 08-10-05, 03:45 PM	This thread is for questions, comments, and concerns solely regarding the pairings, quests, and campaigns for this week. Be nice. Deadline should be up in about 1 hour and 15 minutes. The rules of the COCO can be found here: Rules of Gladius (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448520&origin=) Have fun. After all, DnD is a game. Hey, everyone's doing it. And Sindorin lives like 100 miles from me.
Luni 08-10-05, 03:47 PM	Poor Sindorin. Everyones's doing his job.
GuardianAngel 08-10-05, 03:47 PM	Quick All should be silent why the great Cat and Pitlord do their work.... :D wipes off the brown stuff on his noise
Altaris13 08-10-05, 04:03 PM	:heehee
TCB 08-10-05, 04:07 PM	I am pretty sure I should post this here. Hey you Haverster, I challenge you to a battle of Wits, opps looks lik you lost. You idiot we are going to die if we do this. Shut your pie-hole. The only thing I could loose is your retarded arse His alittle crazy I Corkus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6854676) Challenge Harvester (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179961) to a battle. This takes the 1 credit to do this?
NiQil 08-10-05, 04:09 PM	I am pretty sure I should post this here. Hey you Haverster, I challenge you to a battle of Wits, opps looks lik you lost. You idiot we are going to die if we do this. Shut your pie-hole. The only thing I could loose is your retarded arse His alittle crazy I Corkus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6854676) Challenge Harvester (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179961) to a battle. This takes the 1 credit to do this? Everyone seems to be lining up to take the Harvester down....me....I plan on dodging him as long as possible....a man (or woman) has got to know his limitations.
King Uther 08-10-05, 04:10 PM	I don't plan on formally challenging him. I want it to be a random, storyline encounter. Eventually we will meet. For the mean time, the rest of you will suffice. I formally challenged Mer-Man because I feel like I won't get the chance again since I quest a lot and level fast.
GuardianAngel 08-10-05, 04:28 PM	Dagnal Undercut Sadly the brother to Corkus says, Well dear brother you won last week and now you feel the need to die? What would father say about you trying to kill yourself? Mother was right thier was something funny about you, your hobby of skining baby Kobalds Alive.
Gonbow 08-10-05, 04:50 PM	Iron Chef Santos Fi'Corma overhears the talk of skinned kobold while waiting for his opponent to be determined, "Well, if you skin them alive it helps drain many of their natural reptilian juices, which can then be replaced with a good barbeque sauce or marinade. The adrenaline and terror released during the process also gives them a nice spicy aftertaste."
Mind Rogue 08-10-05, 04:57 PM	I am pretty sure I should post this here. Hey you Haverster, I challenge you to a battle of Wits, opps looks lik you lost. You idiot we are going to die if we do this. Shut your pie-hole. The only thing I could loose is your retarded arse His alittle crazy I Corkus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6854676) Challenge Harvester (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179961) to a battle. This takes the 1 credit to do this? Dude, in a battle of wits, he's got the higher intellect. If your initial spells fail, you're going to lose big time, and your odds of them working aren't as great as you might think. Personally, I expect you to get Harvested, just like the last fool to challenge him. As for the credits, you lose 1 credit if Cat agrees to the challenge and to pay 1 credit. If Cat doesn't want to pay his credit, you've got to fork over two of them.
NiQil 08-10-05, 05:04 PM	Deadline has passed.
nightbanegod 08-10-05, 05:05 PM	im noticing that with only 2 class lvls ... harvester seems to have successfully added all divine/arcaine/psionic spells and manifestations to his class list... i think this gives him a FEW more options than just your lvl 3 cleric... GOOD LUCK with that!!! and yes, i do know he doesnt get all psionic skills nor all arcaine spells and whatnot and infact his caster/manifester lvl is still only 1 on each axis... its just the thought that counts is what im going for wha???.... deadline only just now passed.... jeez man daylight savings time really messes with my perception of the "NOW" ... ill have to remember i have a whole nother hour for editing in the future
sloisel 08-10-05, 05:12 PM	wha???.... deadline only just now passed.... jeez man daylight savings time really messes with my perception of the "NOW" ... ill have to remember i have a whole nother hour for editing in the future I'm in GMT+1 (Switzerland) but for some weird reason (DST?) this board thinks I'm in GMT+2. Sebastien Loisel
Mind Rogue 08-10-05, 05:22 PM	Hey, Niqil, I expect royalties for that. Last week, I said... Which means "Time's up, pencils down, turn your character sheets over and pass them forward and to the left." and this week, you said, Put your pencils down and pass your characters to the front. So I'd like credit when people paraphrase and mock me. ;) After all, the newbies here aren't going to recognize who originally said it, although those of us who tuned in last week will recognize it as a legitiment use of satire. :king: So, everyone seems to be lining up to challenge harvester. Me, I think I'll pass as long as possible. A girl's got to know when she's going to get harvested. ;) :D [/satire]
Pittbull 08-10-05, 05:27 PM	Yes guys, go on and challange him! Now Harvey is easier to beat than later. Believe me it's getting harder and harder the more levels he gets. Having so many loses against a Harvester, I'm thinking of writing a Slayer's Guide "How to lose against Harvesters!" Any interests? One of the best ways to win is simply buying a scroll of Prismatic Wall and he'll surrender immediately..... :P
NiQil 08-10-05, 05:34 PM	Hey, Niqil, I expect royalties for that. Last week, I said... and this week, you said, So I'd like credit when people paraphrase and mock me. ;) After all, the newbies here aren't going to recognize who originally said it, although those of us who tuned in last week will recognize it as a legitiment use of satire. :king: So, everyone seems to be lining up to challenge harvester. Me, I think I'll pass as long as possible. A girl's got to know when she's going to get harvested. ;) :D [/satire] Ahhh but you did not copyright the phrase, therefore it is still in open license. I however, am going to copyright it, and you can now send *me royalties for any further usage <looking for something/someone to hide behind until Mind Rogue's poisoned blades lose their effectiveness>
GuardianAngel 08-10-05, 05:40 PM	@ Mindrogue I will harvest you any time ;) just give me a day of the week and all.
Altaris13 08-10-05, 05:41 PM	:cheer: Go Harvester Go! :cheer: Sometime later... "Yes honored Paladin, you can find him around the arena. I'll point him out to you." On a more serious note... @Uther! Can Aeryn fight this week? I didn't edit the sheet for the 10th since I was on the MQ.
Aramil Dunskar 08-10-05, 06:35 PM	Hahah, take it from a verteran from the arena, you don't want to go challenging Harvester at all. Cat actually discussed the builds he used with some of his future characters, and lemme tell you, if you think that the Harvy's are bad, wait until he unleashes these guys. It just feels good to be back, hopefully I can get some more credits and send good ol' Grakk on a couple quests, or perhaps a campaign :cool:
NiQil 08-10-05, 06:45 PM	Wow...I sure have an assortment going...a FFA, a team, a monster, and a 1v1....this is either going to be really good or really bad LOL
Pitlords 08-10-05, 06:56 PM	Pairings Done Credit Changse: +9: KingUther +4: Tellish +3: Gonbow, Luni, McJarvis +2: Caterane, Kaigan, Altaris, Xanadu, Sindorin +1: LLMadCow, TCB, Erithmu, Aramil, MindRogue, MichaelNoah, SoulLord, Vathelokai, GuardianAngel, Cerebus +0: Zerone, Iced, TelinArtho -1: Huan, Jh316, NiQil -2: -4: DeadlyAssassin Creditse for Pitlordingse: +4: GuardianAngel +3: Caterane, Gonbow, Kaigan, Luni, TelinArtho +2: Erithmu, MindRogue, Xanadu +1: Altaris, Aramil, MichaelNoah, SoulLord, TCB, Vathelokai, Zerone, KingUther, Iced Creditse for Questlordingse: +10: KingUther +5: Tellish -1: KingUther -3: DeadlyAssassin Creditse for Campaignlordse: +2: Huan, Tellish, Sindorin, KingUther Creditse for Acvtive PCse: -1 : Huan, Kaigan, KingUther, Luni, MindRogue, LLMadCow, Tellish -2: Caterane, GuardianAngel, TelinArtho, NiQil Creditse for Questerse: -1: GuardianAngel, Huan, TelinArtho, Zerone, DeadlyAssassin, Iced, Jh316 -2: Erithmu, Tellish Creditse for special thingse: +3: McJarvis (story) +1: Altaris (story), Caterane (admin), Erithmu (story), Luni (story), TCB (story), LLMadCow (admin), Cerebus (story), NiQil (story) -2: KingUther (challenge), TCB (challenge) I love JarJar! From this week on you can earn money by using your skills - perform, sleight of hand, profession, and some crafts to be exact (see FAQ: Skills for details). Pitlords may find that request in the subject line of the sheet they are running a fight for. You need to add the extra income to the final rewards. The income is (Skill modifier+Take10)*ECL in gold. Example for lvl 3 PC: Sleight of hand (Cat's time) +9 earns you 57 gp extra this week (19*3). To ease up the Pitlords work and prevent any mistakes you are asked to write the correct amount in parethesis, like that: earning money with Profession (being John Malkovic) [45 gp]. Then, I want to ask the Questlords again to keep up with the time frame of Quests! There's a lot of red ink on the Quest Roster. Hm, I think that's all for now. Have fun guys :) Cat @TCB: Challenge accepted.
Sindorin 08-10-05, 07:00 PM	In precisely one week I move to Columbia to attend school once again. Once there, I will be increasing my participation here (i.e. pitlording fights, running my campaign the way it is supposed to be, and making a new character). I'm sorry I haven't had time recently to do this, but soon I will. and Yes, it's okay that people make the FotW thread... ;) ~Sindorin
Mind Rogue 08-10-05, 07:08 PM	Ahhh but you did not copyright the phrase, therefore it is still in open license. I however, am going to copyright it, and you can now send *me royalties for any further usage <looking for something/someone to hide behind until Mind Rogue's poisoned blades lose their effectiveness> I believe that in the US, where both WoTC and I reside, you do not have to explicitely copyright something for the copyright laws to take effect. Therefor, even though I didn't explicitely say it, anything I print here can be attributed to me and is guarded under copyright law. However, even if this isn't the case, there are handy-dandy little time and dates to show that I did indeed say it before you, thus preventing you from copyrighting my phrase. ~starts coating mind blade with deathblade~ Oh, and "Time's up, pencils down, turn your character sheets over and pass them forward and to the left." (C) Copyright 2005. @GuardianAngel I think you have things backwards. It will be me who does the harvesting... with my mind. But perhaps I will accept a challenge.
NiQil 08-10-05, 07:14 PM	I believe that in the US, where both WoTC and I reside, you do not have to explicitely copyright something for the copyright laws to take effect. Therefor, even though I didn't explicitely say it, anything I print here can be attributed to me and is guarded under copyright law. However, even if this isn't the case, there are handy-dandy little time and dates to show that I did indeed say it before you, thus preventing you from copyrighting my phrase. ~starts coating mind blade with deathblade~ Oh, and "Time's up, pencils down, turn your character sheets over and pass them forward and to the left." (C) Copyright 2005. mumblemumblestupidboardtimestampmumblemu mblegrumblestupidlawsgrumble <takes full cover behind tower shield with back to a corner>
Pitlords 08-10-05, 07:19 PM	Buffs and Prefight actions: - Giant Wasp Poison in one arrow (DC 18 1d6 dex/1d6 dex) - Large Scorpion Venom (DC 18 1d6 str/1d6 str) @Faroth: Lothan cannot prebuff with poison because there is a chance for failure. You have to do that in the arena, or get a way to eliminate the chance for failure, or become immune to poison. Luni is the Pitlord of this fight.
Zerone 08-10-05, 07:29 PM	[s block] Creditse for Pitlordingse: +4: GuardianAngel +3: Caterane, Gonbow, Kaigan, Luni, TelinArtho +2: Erithmu, MindRogue, Xanadu +1: Altaris, Aramil, MichaelNoah, SoulLord, TCB, Vathelokai, Zerone, KingUther, Iced Creditse for Questlordingse: +10: KingUther +5: Tellish -1: KingUther -3: DeadlyAssassin Creditse for Campaignlordse: +2: Huan, Tellish, Sindorin, KingUther Creditse for Acvtive PCse: -1 : Huan, Kaigan, KingUther, Luni, MindRogue, LLMadCow, Tellish -2: Caterane, GuardianAngel, TelinArtho, NiQil Creditse for Questerse: -1: GuardianAngel, Huan, TelinArtho, Zerone, DeadlyAssassin, Iced, Jh316 -2: Erithmu, Tellish Creditse for special thingse: +3: McJarvis (story) +1: Altaris (story), Caterane (admin), Erithmu (story), Luni (story), TCB (story), LLMadCow (admin), Cerebus (story), NiQil (story) -2: KingUther (challenge), TCB (challenge) I love JarJar! [/ sblock] :heehee Messa back! :cheer:
nightbanegod 08-10-05, 07:39 PM	@pitlords... im sure i missed the post somewhere but what is the official ruling on how to fight in a 3 person fight (ie.. target A before target B) and what are the exp brackets determined by and how much?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-10-05, 07:43 PM	Yes guys, go on and challange him! Now Harvey is easier to beat than later. Believe me it's getting harder and harder the more levels he gets. Having so many loses against a Harvester, I'm thinking of writing a Slayer's Guide "How to lose against Harvesters!" Any interests? One of the best ways to win is simply buying a scroll of Prismatic Wall and he'll surrender immediately..... :P HAHA. I'll write my one line book on how to beat him then. lol It's ok, i think i'm the only guy who's never lost to a harverster. Even though this is almost a typical ftr/clr build, this harvetser is prolly the best of them all. Using the pswr/clr with magic domain was a very good touch. I actually would fear this version over any other version. -ToK
sloisel 08-10-05, 07:56 PM	@Faroth: Lothan cannot prebuff with poison because there is a chance for failure. You have to do that in the arena, or get a way to eliminate the chance for failure, or become immune to poison. Luni is the Pitlord of this fight. Same comment to Maraxus and the drow poison. The fight is being run by GuardianAngel. Sebastien Loisel
Gonbow 08-10-05, 07:57 PM	@Pitlords My credits are in error! Much as I would like to stay quiet and accept the 3 credits... I get -1 for having 3 characters active (Santos, Yasha, Nicolae) I only have 2 fights assigned to me, insofar as I can see: Farfinar (NedTheDestroyer) vs Mugen (Meek Head) and Dagnal (GuardianAngel) vs Horseman (Nightbanegod) vs Alac (Pauper). Unless the 3-player fights are worth 2 credits, I should only have a net gain of 1 credit this week.
sloisel 08-10-05, 08:01 PM	Strategies sent: Gang Lion (Sloisel) vs Mythos (Maraxus): GuardianAngel via email. Son of Buttmunch (Sloisel) vs Eiletha Surion (Kaigan): Xanadu via email.
nightbanegod 08-10-05, 08:09 PM	@pitlords... im sure i missed the post somewhere but what is the official ruling on how to fight in a 3 person fight (ie.. target A before target B) and what are the exp brackets determined by and how much? any takers
Tellish_of_Ket 08-10-05, 08:43 PM	@Pitlords My credits are in error! Much as I would like to stay quiet and accept the 3 credits... I get -1 for having 3 characters active (Santos, Yasha, Nicolae) I only have 2 fights assigned to me, insofar as I can see: Farfinar (NedTheDestroyer) vs Mugen (Meek Head) and Dagnal (GuardianAngel) vs Horseman (Nightbanegod) vs Alac (Pauper). Unless the 3-player fights are worth 2 credits, I should only have a net gain of 1 credit this week. I believe that 3 player fight is worth 2° -ToK
Aramil Dunskar 08-10-05, 09:09 PM	@Michael Noah: Ahh... I can't send you an pm's for some reason. So either I spelt your name wrong, you don't exist, or your pm box is full. I'm hopping its either the first or third option ;) -Aramil
Aramil Dunskar 08-10-05, 09:13 PM	Oh, and while I was gone, it looks like you guys introduced some new types of fights. Can someone either tell me the rules on these bigger battles (e.x. 3 v 3, FFA, etc...) or could you at least give me the link to the rules? Thanks -Aramil
Zerone 08-10-05, 09:20 PM	@Michael Noah: Ahh... I can't send you an pm's for some reason. So either I spelt your name wrong, you don't exist, or your pm box is full. I'm hopping its either the first or third option ;) -Aramil Try this: Michael_Noah @ Cat: Perhaps when you have time you can change all the names for pitlords/people/etc. so they are the correct names? It will make things easier in the long run. I had a similar problem and is why I sent tactics via e-mail instead of PM, as Michael Noah (the way you have it written) is an incorrect screen name... :whatsthis More tedious work for Cat :D *•. Z
Aramil Dunskar 08-10-05, 09:28 PM	Well that one did work, however I just hope it is the right Michael_Noah, and not some imposter ;) @Michael_Noah: Tatics for Grakk have been sent via PM. -Aramil
michael_noah 08-10-05, 09:49 PM	@Aramil: Got 'em. sorry about the underscore... p.s. thanks for being early!
nightbanegod 08-10-05, 10:21 PM	Oh, and while I was gone, it looks like you guys introduced some new types of fights. Can someone either tell me the rules on these bigger battles (e.x. 3 v 3, FFA, etc...) or could you at least give me the link to the rules? Thanks -Aramil @pitlords... im sure i missed the post somewhere but what is the official ruling on how to fight in a 3 person fight (ie.. target A before target B) and what are the exp brackets determined by and how much? any help yet?
NiQil 08-10-05, 10:24 PM	@ TCB Tactics for Caspian sent via PM @Erithmu Tactics for Silas sent via PM @Kaigan Tactics for Methos sent via PM @Mind Rogue Tactics for Kronos forthcoming via PM pending discussion with partner All of you....if anything is remotely unclear, don't hesitate to ask! And thanks for pitlording!
Faroth 08-10-05, 10:28 PM	@Luni: Tactics send for Lothan's fight. see ya
xanadu 08-10-05, 10:51 PM	Link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466621) Teams are pretty straight forward. Try to coordinate strategy with your partner. Once two teammates are dropped and killed, the fight ends and both members of the other team gets winners rewards (regardless of who did what) whereas the losers get losers rewards. FFA is a bit more complex but easy once you get the hang of it. You can attack anyone you want, but you only score XP rewards for dropping your target. Once your target is dropped, you receive a new target. Fight ends when 1 gladiator is left standing. Rewards are based purely on number of targets dropped.
Gonbow 08-10-05, 10:57 PM	@Kaigen Yasha's tactics for Methos (NiQil) vs Yasha (Gonbow) vs Rebeca (TCB) vs Alexi (Mind Rogue), sent. @General Weee, all my characters are in mutli-player fights this week! Will I manage to steal another one of these FFA's? ... No, I highly doubt it. Yasha isn't half as hard to kill as Santos is, unforunately. She'll dish out some damage though, so I should at least take down one target before getting offed. Hopefully Santos won't get served a helping of defeat himself.
Mind Rogue 08-10-05, 11:02 PM	@ Kaigan Tactics for Alexi sent. @GuardianAngel Tactics for Yoriko sent. @TelinArtho Zahrat's tactics will be sent after discussing tactics with her partner. @KerlanReyne This means look at the line up and give me some suggestions on my tactics, please.
Faroth 08-10-05, 11:28 PM	@Faroth: Lothan cannot prebuff with poison because there is a chance for failure. You have to do that in the arena, or get a way to eliminate the chance for failure, or become immune to poison. Luni is the Pitlord of this fight. Ok, sorry but i didn't know it. May I recover my money and erase the poisoned arrows from my character sheet? and I suppose I need a special permission to edit my sheet and don't get punished. see ya
NiQil 08-10-05, 11:31 PM	Ok, sorry but i didn't know it. May I recover my money and erase the poisoned arrows from my character sheet? and I suppose I need a special permission to edit my sheet and don't get punished. see ya Just don't use them this battle and then take care of it after your fight has been posted.
nightbanegod 08-10-05, 11:36 PM	@Gonbow tactics for horseman sent in.... PS: Dagnal does not meet prerequisites for improved sunder... he cannot use/have that feat
Faroth 08-10-05, 11:42 PM	Just don't use them this battle and then take care of it after your fight has been posted. But I don't want to recover only half of my money. Right now, I won't use them and I'll wait for the permission. Thanks =D
LLMadCow 08-11-05, 12:07 AM	@Caterane: Sunwolf and I need to communicate for strategy and whatnot..... @Sunwolf: Please PM or e-mail me, whichever you prefer. I live on the East Coast and would prefer being able to chat using AIM or Yahoo either 9 - 10AM EST or 11PM - 1AM EST. Work has me busy, Monday - Friday 11AM and 10PM, and I usually try sleep between 2AM and 9AM. So, please, let us strategize for this upcoming battle that would do us both some good to win.
LLMadCow 08-11-05, 12:10 AM	Ok, sorry but i didn't know it. May I recover my money and erase the poisoned arrows from my character sheet? and I suppose I need a special permission to edit my sheet and don't get punished. see ya Do not edit your sheet until after your character has had it's fight for the week, but if you have not used the poison, you can erase the listed poison and poisoned arrows for the full value of the poison. Just act like you had never bought the poison, and all is good. LLMadCow
Faroth 08-11-05, 12:12 AM	Thanks, I'll do it in that way. I have to change the money calculation too, for my tatoo of synthete (100 instead of 150) see ya
Luni 08-11-05, 02:01 AM	@Faroth: I received your tactics. Don't edit your character sheet. As long as you know what is wrong, that is fine with me. I'll go through your sheet later, and double check everything for you. @Caterane: A Level 8 NPC gets 9400 gp to play around with. Now, a efreet's treasure is Standard coins; double goods; standard items. Should I increase its wealth by 1/3 to represent the double goods, giving it a new total of 12502 gp? @King Uther: I got your pm as well.
Caterane 08-11-05, 02:15 AM	@Luni: Please open your DMG on p52. There you will find the Goods list. The efreet has 2d6 gems and 2d4 arts so unless he wants to hit me with a painting, I would just ignore them :D @Faroth: Just ignore the prebuffs for this fight. You can apply the poison in the arena, or refund it for full after the fight (not both of course LOL)
Luni 08-11-05, 02:18 AM	The efreet is selling paintings of Caterane to any buyers. Only 50 gp a piece! No worries Cat. He'll just keep his 9400 gp, and save the gems as a bribe in case he loses.
Maraxus 08-11-05, 04:25 AM	@Faroth: Lothan cannot prebuff with poison because there is a chance for failure. You have to do that in the arena, or get a way to eliminate the chance for failure, or become immune to poison. Luni is the Pitlord of this fight. Same comment to Maraxus and the drow poison. The fight is being run by GuardianAngel. Sebastien Loisel Then why is apling poison to a weapon given as an example pre-fight buff? I think this is very confusing, plus I had enough time in my last two fights, between my opponents going down and dieing to poison the arrows. If anyone had told me that you can't poison weapons out of the arena (without being immune to poison), I would have done this. And I think after two fights with this poisoned arrows, I own them. :noway:
Caterane 08-11-05, 05:23 AM	Tactics sent for Harvester, Merman, and Indri. @Maraxus: The golden rule is that you cannot do anything outside the arena if a chance for failure with ill effects exist.
Maraxus 08-11-05, 05:53 AM	What ill effects? If I really fail, I take a short nap and then try again. ... or does this use the whole dose? ... It probably does ... Okay, and from no on, I will allways poison my arrows in the arena. Can I keep my 2 arrows nevertheless? Or what about this: Befor this fight, my pitlord replays the last seconds of my last fight, in which I poisoned my arrows.
Caterane 08-11-05, 07:54 AM	Then others want to prebuff with spells with a caster level higher than theirs, or request that the pitlord does that. This creates a two-way communication between player and pitlord (opposed to one-way: player sending tactics) and unnecessarily complicates things. Additionally, if the spell fails, then there would be a three-way communication as the pitlord would have to inform the opponoment if the happenings. You can keep the poison as non-applied doses, and apply it in the arena.
Maraxus 08-11-05, 08:10 AM	Okay, as I said, this is a very bad moment to tell me that, since knowing this would have affected my previous fights (and this is a very specific situation) but I think I have to accept it. ...Never mind... Tactics are sent :)
Gonbow 08-11-05, 08:53 AM	@nightbanegod Tactics recieved. @GuardianAngel Tactics recieved.
Erithmu 08-11-05, 09:13 AM	Tactics recieved: NiQil GuardianAngel (reply PM sent for clarification) Tactics suffering from 4 rounds of stalling: Uther Altaris Fights get run friday night or Saturday. Mainly because I make mistakes and have no time before tuesday to start and run it.
Altaris13 08-11-05, 09:22 AM	:weep: Cat must hate me or something. :weep: Hound Archon? CR4 w/ DR 10/evil? Aeryn is hosed... @Erith: You'll have tactics in a bit. I'm at work now and working on them. I only just saw the pairings twenty minutes ago. You know, being on the EST of the US and all, I was rather busy with my wife last night.
sloisel 08-11-05, 09:35 AM	Hound Archon? CR4 w/ DR 10/evil? Aeryn is hosed... This isn't without merit. If the monsters are to be played and equipped like characters, this particular character is ECL11. With the gear of an ECL4, but still; Altaris13 is ECL3. Sebastien Loisel
xanadu 08-11-05, 09:57 AM	Pitlords just rolls randomly. Monster encounter depend on their challenge rating, not their ECL. That being said, the dice seem not to like you here. You need an oil of blessed weapon. @ Caterane, Merman tactics received @ sloisel, Son of Buttmunch tactics received.
Pittbull 08-11-05, 10:15 AM	@Michael_Noah: Hagrid's tactic has been sent. Sorry, twice! ;)
Caterane 08-11-05, 10:35 AM	Altaris: You had bad luck. Not only did you get one of the toughest monsters, your first roll on the ECL 3 encounter league was a 99 which means "roll again on ECL 4 table". MadCow for example rolled a 5 or something which means "roll one level lower" so he only got a wraith. Brilf however brought the Hillgiant of one level higher :eek:
sloisel 08-11-05, 10:35 AM	That being said, the dice seem not to like you here. You need an oil of blessed weapon. Won't help. That makes the weapon good-aligned, not evil-aligned, which is what you need to beat a hound archon's DR. I've been scouring the rules to see how on earth an ECL 3 character can penetrate this kind of DR. The only way I found is the 2nd level cleric spell "align weapon", which is not available in oil form. So you'd have to have taken at least one level of cleric, or have sufficient UMD to get it from a scroll. Of course, you can beat a hound archon with magic missiles but with SR16 and (say) CL3, you'll need around 8 castings to get him. He's got fairly good saves so it's probably worse if you give him the chance to save. I don't think this is a good approach either. Since you have to damage him for poison to affect him, and in addition he's got +10 to save vs poison, that's probably out of the picture too. His skills are all stellar, he can sneak and spot like nobody's business. I do think this guy is too strong for ECL3. You'd have to have a character built to destroy him. You could cast hold person and CDG with an evil aligned weapon (CL3 vs SR16, will save+6 DC~16, second will save+6, CDG fort save=?) says that the odds of this working are about 10%. If you took the align weapon spell from a scroll, you can try again and then you're done. You'd have to find a way to render him helpless and then CDG him with an aligned weapon. CDG with a spell is unlikely to work because of the SR. Sleep won't work because of HD limit. It would take about 8 castings of magic missile to take him down at CL3, in view of SR and HP. You could also try alchemist's fire, if you dare. Pretty easy to hit. Mediocre damage. @Caterane: just because he rolled this doesn't mean this is acceptable in the coliseum. After all, nowhere does it say in the SRD that an ECL3 character can't buy 9th level spells, and yet we don't allow it. Sebastien Loisel
Gonbow 08-11-05, 10:41 AM	I do think this guy is too strong for ECL3. You'd have to have a character built to destroy him. You could cast hold person and CDG with an evil aligned weapon (CL3 vs SR16, will save+6 DC~16, second will save+6, CDG fort save=?) says that the odds of this working are about 10%. If you took the align weapon spell from a scroll, you can try again and then you're done. You'd have to find a way to render him helpless and then CDG him with an aligned weapon. CDG with a spell is unlikely to work because of the SR. Sleep won't work because of HD limit. It would take about 8 castings of magic missile to take him down at CL3, in view of SR and HP. Hold person only affects Humanoids, it will have no effect on an Outsider. Sleep won't work, for the reasons you outlined... And personally, in the light of all this, I think the monster selection method should be altered if this is a possible result. Especially given the player has no control on when they are given a monster fight, unlike mini-quests or quests...
Caterane 08-11-05, 10:42 AM	As I said, it's an ECL 4 encounter. I like Monster fights. Last week, someone got a grick, another one a praying mantis, which were no problem at all. This time a hound archon. Since everyone can be hit with the monster fight, gladiator need to prepare more diversely which is a good development. And Altaris, even if you lose, it does not count vs your powerrating so no harm done.
sloisel 08-11-05, 10:49 AM	I like Monster fights. Last week, someone got a grick, another one a praying mantis, which were no problem at all. This time a hound archon. I like monster fights too, and I'm not saying they need to be removed. But they need to be revamped so that this kind of stuff doesn't happen. Gricks and praying mantises are fun, but this is not fun at all, so I think there's a problem. There really isn't any point in running a fight like this. What's to prevent you from instituting a rule that you reroll all higher/lower CR encounters? @Gonbow: you're right about hold person, of course. Summon nature's ally is also out (circle of prot vs evil at will) summon monster is unlikely to cut cheese. Sebastien Loisel
Altaris13 08-11-05, 10:50 AM	*nods* The dice do hate me here. Or at least, they hate Aeryn. ;) So, to save everyone the grief of actually running the humiliation that Aeryn is going to get, he'll surrender and just walk away with his 300 XP & 300 GP. There is a max on XP/GP I can earn, even if I win right? Why waste the energies on a fight I have basically 0-chance of winning? EDIT: Not basically zero chance. There is NO chance I can win. I cannot even damage the Archon. Even with a hit with my chain, at max damage I do 1 point to him. It has a more HP, a higher AC. OH, and I have to roll a 14 to beat it's aura of menace. HOSED!
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-05, 10:55 AM	Actually you'll be happy to know you get 450xp/gp. It's a CR 4 encounter, so you do get the bonus. -ToK EDIT: Though you think this sucks, i can think of many ECL 3 builds off the top of my head that can deal with it. It's just how you build your character is all and what kind of stuff you have in your inventory to prepare yourself for such an eventuallity.
Mind Rogue 08-11-05, 10:55 AM	Actually, since your opponent is a CR 4, you get Xp as though you lost to a 4th level character, which actually nets you 450 Xp. However, your Gp is capped at 300.
TelinArtho 08-11-05, 10:57 AM	@Caterane - tactics for Daeren sent (vs Hell Hound) via Email @GuardianAngel - tactics for Tlanth sent via Email @LaughingDragon - proposed tactics for Sir Valkin and Victor vs 2 others sent for review via PM. @SodaGuy and @GuardianAngel - tactics received for both of you. Will run the fight today or tomorrow - weather permitting (as in no-board storms that take down the site, etc). Tactics still needed from: Zahrat (Mind Rogue) & Goran (KerlanRayne) vs Maylee (Kaigan) & Ansom (Maverick) [my first 2v2 fight, I'm so proud!]
sloisel 08-11-05, 11:02 AM	i can think of many ECL 3 builds off the top of my head that can deal with it. Like what? Sebastien Loisel
Caterane 08-11-05, 11:05 AM	The randomness of monster fights is what makes them so interesting. Btw, a higher level encounter does not automatically mean he is better off. Example of MadCow again: he rolled a Wraith on the lower table. Had he had the same result one level higher, he would've gotten some troglodytes which are much easier for him, even though they are technically stronger than the Wraith. The danger of getting a tough monster is exactly what I want to see. You have to prepare for more than just a gladiator. And again: a monster fight won't be added to your win/loss record and you receive money in any case. Just don't spend any ressources if you feel you have no chance. @Sloisel: With the ECL 3 Harvester I would cast align weapon on my armor spikes and grapple him (+17 vs +8). And with vigor I have more hp than he has. Just from the top of my head.
Luni 08-11-05, 11:06 AM	I'm waiting for people to start getting dragons! I've never had a monster fight, yet. :(
Altaris13 08-11-05, 11:07 AM	Oh, and Minesbiggerinyers tactics were sent to Erith.
Altaris13 08-11-05, 11:09 AM	Sure, /some/ builds are could probably handle monster fights. /Some/ builds are PsyWarrior 1/Cleric with Luck & Magic Domains Half-giants ecl 3 with 3K in crazy-like gear. You'll have to excuse me for creating a normal character my first time around. Edit: Just saw Cat's post. Which just reiterates what I said above. Monster fights are cool! I like monster fights. But never did I dream of facing an ECL 4 creature which is intended for FOUR PC's of Level FOUR. Do I have a problem with this? No, not really. Am I complaining? No, not really. I am being 'real.' There is simply no chance of me winning. Sure, /if/ I get close enough I /might/ be able to trip it. And /if/ I trip the Hound, I /might/ be able to keep it prone. That is a lot of mights & maybes, and I'd rather save the headache of right tactics & save the Pitlord the headache of running the fight.
xanadu 08-11-05, 11:10 AM	loisel - we have to live with the consequences of the dice to create random situations which remove the possibilities or favoritism and judgement calls. otherwise, everyone will cry when they get a particularly difficult opponent; be it a monster fight or even a regular pairing. ask luni if its fair she got paried with RakkaR in a team fight. the odds are against us, but we will do our best :) yes Aeryn will probably lose, but he got unlucky with the dice. it really is not too different from rolling a 1 on a fort save. had Aeryn got a few skeletons instead, Aeryn would be getting free xp and gold because he will use no resources and still get rewards! in fact, that's actually going to happen vs the hound archon, just not as many xp and gp :P edit: Altaris, your character fine. how many clerics here have align weapon memorized or even as a scroll? harvester is the exception, cat's guys are prepared for everything!
Gonbow 08-11-05, 11:16 AM	One thing that I think everyone is overlooking here is the definition of Challenge Rating. A challenge rating of 4 means that one of these creatures is a adequate challenge for a party of four adventurers at level 4. Given, you are supposed to fight three of these a day, but that is imitated by the 1/3 limit of various spells/powers/etc, no? So CR = ECL != Common sense. Much the same way that CR != ECL if you want to play a monster character, the hound archon that is beating up ECL 4 character (ECL 3, but that's a fluke) would have to fight level ELEVEN characters if he was a player... that's a double-standard. Again, we really need a new method to determine monster fights. I've come off alright from monster fights (Said giant preying mantis), but that doesn't mean it's okay. Diversification is a good thing, but this is a bit extreme.
Altaris13 08-11-05, 11:19 AM	@xanadu: I'm actually pretty happy with Aeryn. I think his build is good, though my selection of gear has been a might limited. (Decent armor & weapons being expensive and all.) Again, I'm cool with Monster fights. And I'm cool with the dice gods being mean. Afterall, they have to be mean to somebody sometimes, right? It'll even out and I'll have a run of like TEN wins or something. :D
TelinArtho 08-11-05, 11:22 AM	@Mind Rogue - tactics sent for Sir Valkin in 2v2 fight via PM.
Altaris13 08-11-05, 11:22 AM	I rescind my offer of surrender. I /will/ fight the ugly bastich!!! :D I'll still probably lose, but hey!
Cerebus13 08-11-05, 11:22 AM	about monster fights... Personally I think they should be quite difficult, because you're going up against a monster (or set of them) that are largely unprepared for arena combat. Other players have planned builds specifically to deal with other players, especially equipment buying schemes. Our previous incarnations of monster fights were pathetic pushovers rather often, which is basically a free meal ticket for certain gladiators that had access to things like Fly. The new map makes this tactic of avoidance harder to use...and now we just need to use monster money to equip them a bit better and these fights should all be an interesting challenge.
Altaris13 08-11-05, 11:31 AM	Tactics for Aeryn Vs the Archon sent via email. Bring it on you hairy son of goat!
sloisel 08-11-05, 11:32 AM	@Sloisel: With the ECL 3 Harvester I would cast align weapon on my armor spikes and grapple him (+17 vs +8). And with vigor I have more hp than he has. Just from the top of my head. Except you don't have align weapon, neither as a prepared spell nor as a scroll. Also, I don't see how you get +17 vs +8; the grapple checks as I count them are +4str, +4size (I assume you are half-giant, even though it doesn't say it), +4 improved grapple, vs his +4 strength. On the other hand, he might well be shaped like a dire wolf in which case he'll improved trip you at +11, or resist the grapple at +8. In any case, once in a grapple his natural attacks are fully usable against you, and he has more of those than you have armor spikes. Which still doesn't explain where you got your align weapon from. Sebastien Loisel
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-05, 11:34 AM	One thing that I think everyone is overlooking here is the definition of Challenge Rating. A challenge rating of 4 means that one of these creatures is a adequate challenge for a party of four adventurers at level 4. Given, you are supposed to fight three of these a day, but that is imitated by the 1/3 limit of various spells/powers/etc, no? So CR = ECL != Common sense. Much the same way that CR != ECL if you want to play a monster character, the hound archon that is beating up ECL 4 character (ECL 3, but that's a fluke) would have to fight level ELEVEN characters if he was a player... that's a double-standard. Again, we really need a new method to determine monster fights. I've come off alright from monster fights (Said giant preying mantis), but that doesn't mean it's okay. Diversification is a good thing, but this is a bit extreme. They Hound Archon is also under the effect of the 1/3 rule. Mind you it doesn't have anything that would suffer from it, but if it did, it would. Also, i have never seen a party of four 4th level players have any kind of difficulty against a CR 4 creature. My experience in Living Greyhawk, is that the ECL of the monsters or CR of one creature should be at least ECL+2 of the party to begin to challenge them. Otherwise, it's a cake-walk. Just look at some of the quests and campaigns on this thread. People are killing their own CR equivalent creatures in one or two hits. Well, i wasn't thinking of the harvester, but yeah, he would woop it pretty easily. I was thinking of old Spike Barb/Ftr/Clr when he was 3rd level. Align the weapon and prolly kill it in two hits. Even without align weapon he could pass the DR. Trip, smack, trip, smack/smack. And that's just an average Joe. No dissolving weapon, no align weapon, no anything. Just him. Here's a cut/paste from my guy Krunch (no cleric levels) from a campaign he's in. Krunch rages [str 23 (17+2enl+4rage), +6] and charges the dragon with his falchion. He will power attack -2/+4 giving him a +9[+3 bab, +6 str, -1 size, +1 mw, +2 charge, -2pa] to hit, and 2d4+13 [+6str, + (x.5 thw), +4 pa] dmg, (18-20/x2). I would give him better than even odds of beating the Hound. And i haven't started on fancy builds yet. Give said warrior, a tatoo of vigor, dissolving weapon and it's over VERY fast. -ToK just my 2 cents worth
Luni 08-11-05, 11:34 AM	@Zerone: Tactics for Karisia sent. @Altaris: I'll let you fight Rakkar, if I can have the Hound archon for my teammate! Just kidding, Xanadu.
Caterane 08-11-05, 11:36 AM	Daerren vs a Hell Hound is up. Pretty boring. Now imagine 4 Daerren's vs a hell hound. Monster fights are good the way they are. There was only 1 loss so far which was Mer-Man vs a regenerating creature that used more than 3000 gold on expendables for one fight. And it was damn close. Making monster fights easier makes them useless.
Laughing_Dragon 08-11-05, 11:37 AM	@Mind Rogue - tactics sent for Sir Valkin in 2v2 fight via PM.Same here.
King Uther 08-11-05, 11:42 AM	@sloisel He'd be expansioned, which would add make it +8 size, +5 STR, +4 Feat=+17.
Luni 08-11-05, 11:43 AM	Daerren vs a Hell Hound is up. Pretty boring. Now imagine 4 Daerren's vs a hell hound. Monster fights are good the way they are. There was only 1 loss so far which was Mer-Man vs a regenerating creature that used more than 3000 gold on expendables for one fight. And it was damn close. Making monster fights easier makes them useless. I could of swarm, someone won to a pack of wererats. And someone else losing to Yuan-ti.
Mind Rogue 08-11-05, 11:43 AM	@TelinArtho and his buddy I've got your tactics, but I'm still waiting for your rivals. @All Brief quick question. Manifesters are limited to 1/3 of their total Pp. However, are they assumed to have spent them earlier in the day or saving them for later? This matters because if they have already spent them, then they can't maintain their Psionic Focus after burning all of their allowable pp for the match.
sloisel 08-11-05, 11:45 AM	Monster fights are good the way they are. Whatever, I know better than to argue this. However, I'd bet anything that the hound archon would beat any of the current ECL3 characters, and almost all the future ones as well. Sebastien Loisel
NiQil 08-11-05, 11:47 AM	@TelinArtho and his buddy I've got your tactics, but I'm still waiting for your rivals. @All Brief quick question. Manifesters are limited to 1/3 of their total Pp. However, are they assumed to have spent them earlier in the day or saving them for later? This matters because if they have already spent them, then they can't maintain their Psionic Focus after burning all of their allowable pp for the match. Tactics are still forthcoming from Vath and myself...we're having trouble making connections.
xanadu 08-11-05, 11:52 AM	I could of swarm, someone won to a pack of wererats. And someone else losing to Yuan-ti. I'm pretty sure the pixie beat the Yuan-ti.
TelinArtho 08-11-05, 11:53 AM	@ Caterane - not sure why you only gave me a +7 to hit when I was raging (should be +8), but it wouldn't have made a difference anyhow. Thanks for pitlording.
NiQil 08-11-05, 11:54 AM	Tactics for Aeryn Vs the Archon sent via email. Bring it on you hairy son of goat! I'll trade ya monsters, Altaris....my Phanton Fungus, while still ECL 3, is not going to be a picnic for me....constant greater invisibility as a spell-like ability that will never go away and not susceptible to invisibilty purge or the like....the only thing saving my butt is the dungeon itself. Given that Caspian is my cleric, we might fare pretty well in a swap LOL. But here's to you, Mr. The Dice Never Roll My Way Guy. (imagine that in the form of those Real Men Of Genius Bud Light commercials LOL)
Altaris13 08-11-05, 11:55 AM	@ToK: Yeah, like I said /some/ builds would win against the Archon. And yes, I realize now where I made my mistakes in creating Aeryn. But that is the point of this board, right? To learn to optimize better through practical application rather than theoretical? I just never realized the potential was there to fight something so drastically over-powered compared to my character. Live and learn. I'll know better in the future. Aeryn will probably get retired, maybe reincarnated. :-) I'm still playing him for now, I think he's cool and I like the guild he's in. EDIT: :stabs NightQuill in the leg and watches gleefully as his vitals spill forth: Thanks for the offer though. :D
Caterane 08-11-05, 11:58 AM	I could of swarm, someone won to a pack of wererats. And someone else losing to Yuan-ti. :eek: Someone did not win vs a monster!! We have to scrap monster fights :D Stop whinning guys!! :P
Altaris13 08-11-05, 11:59 AM	:weep: :weep: :weep: :D
NiQil 08-11-05, 12:02 PM	@ToK: Yeah, like I said /some/ builds would win against the Archon. And yes, I realize now where I made my mistakes in creating Aeryn. But that is the point of this board, right? To learn to optimize better through practical application rather than theoretical? I just never realized the potential was there to fight something so drastically over-powered compared to my character. Live and learn. I'll know better in the future. Aeryn will probably get retired, maybe reincarnated. :-) I'm still playing him for now, I think he's cool and I like the guild he's in. EDIT: :stabs NightQuill in the leg and watches gleefully as his vitals spill forth: Thanks for the offer though. :D The only thing vital in my leg is the extra poundage from too much fast food. Feel free to take that. Maybe the Hound Archon needs a meal after snacking on Aeryn ::takes full cover in a corner behind a tower shield::
Caterane 08-11-05, 12:02 PM	ok, Altaris may whine :D
Altaris13 08-11-05, 12:09 PM	:raincloud :bigeyes: :allalone: :rant: :tantrum: :banghead: :headexplo :help: me, anyone!? Can I split the XP & GP with another player? :D
michael_noah 08-11-05, 12:23 PM	@Pitbull: Tactics received, also PMed you with I think a fix in your favor on your character.
NiQil 08-11-05, 12:32 PM	:raincloud :bigeyes: :allalone: :rant: :tantrum: :banghead: :headexplo :help: me, anyone!? Can I split the XP & GP with another player? :D Check your PM's.
King Uther 08-11-05, 12:36 PM	@Eithmu Tactics for The Avatar of Life have been sent via PM. @Altaris Dude, I am so sorry. Oh, and for the Archon too.
Altaris13 08-11-05, 12:46 PM	@Eithmu Tactics for The Avatar of Life have been sent via PM. @Altaris Dude, I am so sorry. Oh, and for the Archon too. What are you sorry for? :D Mini is gonna pwnd ye fer phat l007! ;)
TelinArtho 08-11-05, 01:32 PM	Loxlee vs Milo Tad is up: Loxlee vs Milo Tad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6936393) @Loxlee - your tactics were a little confusing. Why are you improving your bow, but then drop it once you start to close in on Milo?
KerlanRayne 08-11-05, 02:01 PM	@All Brief quick question. Manifesters are limited to 1/3 of their total Pp. However, are they assumed to have spent them earlier in the day or saving them for later? This matters because if they have already spent them, then they can't maintain their Psionic Focus after burning all of their allowable pp for the match.A third for use in the fight, a third available for prebuffs, and a third saved for later. So yes, they can maintain focus is they use all their PPs. KerlanRayne
Purkake 08-11-05, 02:22 PM	@Cat: you forgot the RoE scroll in the used items section :) You know, People could actually get rich like that :P Anyway monster fights are fun, but it seems like the ACs are just too high for the monsters to hit. Mmm dragon fight *drools*
TelinArtho 08-11-05, 02:29 PM	@Purkake - if you are talking about the Ray of Enfeeblement from Daeren vs Hell Hound - it was cast from memory - not from a scroll.
Gonbow 08-11-05, 02:36 PM	@Meek Head Tactics recieved.
SoulLord 08-11-05, 02:56 PM	Tactics for Vandelar & heindal sent tactics for Dameon Leonne (Huan) Amion Dar'ath (Waywreth) not received.
TelinArtho 08-11-05, 03:27 PM	NiQil has provided a story for the Loxlee vs Milo Tad fight.
King Uther 08-11-05, 03:44 PM	@Xanadu Tactics for Virgo have been sent via PM. Should be an interesting fight.
Purkake 08-11-05, 08:41 PM	@Purkake - if you are talking about the Ray of Enfeeblement from Daeren vs Hell Hound - it was cast from memory - not from a scroll. Oh darn! Should have rechecked, I stand corrected.
Zerone 08-11-05, 10:13 PM	Tactics Received: Karisia (Luni) Tactics Not Received: Omo-Na Sento (LLMadCow) *•. Z
xanadu 08-11-05, 11:45 PM	I am running a fight and a few situations came up I want to be sure of. Gladiator A targets a dispel magic on B. B has 2 weapons charged with dissolving weapon, 1 of which he holds. Are these weapons subject to dispel check? Dissolving weapons dont discharge against a failed trip attempt even if they make the initial touch hit since it is not "a successful attack" A hostile empathic transfer stone can be drawn, manifested and the accompanying touch attack executed in the same round...it's instantaneous so it has to work this way, right?
King Uther 08-11-05, 11:52 PM	@ Xanadu If it is a targeted Dispel, the Dissolving Weapons don't get dispelled. It has to be an area effect. Empathic Transfer Hostile can be used all in the same round. As far as Dissolving Weapon going off on a trip, that is debatable. Trip is an "attack" action. But then again that favors me, so take it with a grain of salt.
LLMadCow 08-12-05, 12:39 AM	Daerren vs a Hell Hound is up. Pretty boring. Now imagine 4 Daerren's vs a hell hound. Monster fights are good the way they are. There was only 1 loss so far which was Mer-Man vs a regenerating creature that used more than 3000 gold on expendables for one fight. And it was damn close. Making monster fights easier makes them useless. Only 1 loss? I seem to remember others..... :thinks:
NiQil 08-12-05, 12:44 AM	@ Mind Rogue Tactics for Kronos sent via PM
Begferdeth 08-12-05, 01:15 AM	@ Altaris: Ch'Ch'Ili tactics sent. Oh... is the Improved Natural Armor feat in the SRD? I couldnt find it. I dont mind him having it tho, since there are so many other feats that would probably hurt me so much more :)
King Uther 08-12-05, 01:17 AM	It's in the Monster feats section.
Erithmu 08-12-05, 01:38 AM	All tactics recieved and clarifications returned. Beatings will begin on Saturday.
Kaigan 08-12-05, 02:00 AM	@Xanadu, tactics sent for Eiletha. @Gonbow: Tactics sent for Alex, please read over them, then send yours and mine to our pitlord, thanks. @MaverickKnight: Tactics sent for Maylee, please read over them, then send yours and mine to our pitlord thanks. Tactics received for Methos, Yasha, and Alexi. Still awaiting tactics for Rebecca, Zubair, and Baelin.
Maraxus 08-12-05, 03:56 AM	It's in the Monster feats section. Yes, I'm a monster. :D Zassle has no usual sorcerers feat selection, because he is so much dragon disciple - you just don't know it yet. ;)
Altaris13 08-12-05, 07:13 AM	@Begferdeth: Tactics were NOT received. Make sure you're sending them via PM to Altaris13. My former life I was Altaris, but that account has long been denied me. ;) In other words, don't forget the 13 when you PM me because I don't have access to the 'altaris' account.
Caterane 08-12-05, 07:22 AM	I am running a fight and a few situations came up I want to be sure of. Gladiator A targets a dispel magic on B. B has 2 weapons charged with dissolving weapon, 1 of which he holds. Are these weapons subject to dispel check? Dissolving weapons dont discharge against a failed trip attempt even if they make the initial touch hit since it is not "a successful attack" A hostile empathic transfer stone can be drawn, manifested and the accompanying touch attack executed in the same round...it's instantaneous so it has to work this way, right? 1) Target dispel does not dispel powers on weapons. The weapon is not the target. 2) Dissolving weapon do not discharge on a trip attack because it's a touch attack and not a real attack. If that would be possible, you could just discharge dissolving weapon with a regular touch attack too which is not possible (must be a regular attack). If he has impr.trip, the free bonus attack might discharge it if it hits. 3) Yes. If you hold the charge for later rounds, you lose the 'free attack' however.
Vathelokai 08-12-05, 07:47 AM	Recieved tactics from Heindal the Big (SoulLord) Waiting on Anixx the Warbringer (Iced) Would like to get started by friday night. Send by PM or to greyfacemail(at)gmail.com On a side note, if anyone wants a gmail account, drop me a line. @Catarane: Even with the stats in your sig, you couldn't make a diplomacy check against LL. His skill focus(size 7), makes it neigh impossible. @Mind Rogue: Tactics sent for Jodan and Kronos.
michael_noah 08-12-05, 08:46 AM	Dissolving weapon can't be dispelled in any case, as the power is Instantaneous. Apparently, the acid created is completely non-magical (non-psionic?) after the spell completes.
TelinArtho 08-12-05, 09:10 AM	@Mindrogue - tactics received for Zahrat. Still waiting on the other 3...
xanadu 08-12-05, 09:41 AM	OK, thanks for the answers. I am going to write a story for the fight because it was a good one. Sorry to keep you guys in suspense, but a story is needed!
Gonbow 08-12-05, 09:59 AM	@Guardian Angel Tactics for Santos and Alex (Kaigan) sent.
Maverick Knight 08-12-05, 10:09 AM	I seem to have made a bit of an error. Ironically, it was made in correction of another error...but whatever. Yesterday evening, I noticed that all of Ansom's AC's were wrong (I had included the Dodge bonus in the permanent AC, and the FF and touch were just plain off), and that I hadn't linked to my previous fights on that sheet. Having been told by an elder (who wishes to remain unnamed) that I would get "slammed with a violation" for not linking to my fights, and thinking that a violation was something terribly bad....I went and corrected those two errors on the sheet real quick. I was then reminded by that same elder that that was an even bigger violation, since pairings had already been done. Despite the fact that A) I did it to correct two errors, and B) it made my char actually look weaker by lowering his permanent AC by 1. But, a rule violation is a rule violation, no matter how well-intentioned. So, TelinArtho, I forfeit my team fight with a loss. Sorry.
Sunwolf 08-12-05, 10:16 AM	@Cat Do LLMadCow and I get to see equip for the hill giant/wraith monster fight or do we make tactics without knowing what gear the giant and wraith have?
TelinArtho 08-12-05, 10:22 AM	Well, Maverick - as luck would have it, I have a nasty thing about getting everything set up well in advance. What does this mean? Well, it means I grabbed your character before you made your changes - so I have a copy preserved in your error-filled state. Since the errors (while still violations) are not so eggregious to throw the fight (typos on AC really), and I had already caught them and marked them as errors for my own reference, I see no reason why you should have to forfeit from the fight. Also, since the violations are really coming up for this upcoming week, I don't think your character should be unceremoniously cut from this week's fight for violations he didn't know about. All in all, I see no reason to not allow your character to fight. All that being said, though, just don't let it happen again. /d
Pitlords 08-12-05, 10:28 AM	@Cat Do LLMadCow and I get to see equip for the hill giant/wraith monster fight or do we make tactics without knowing what gear the giant and wraith have? Well, yes. But I think we should change that. It's too awkward to prepost the fight with the equipment in the Battles thread and it makes my life not easier by always having to check back daily if the fight is up, or browsing through the mass here. Pitlords should post equipment here in the FotW thread.
Maverick Knight 08-12-05, 10:35 AM	Hooray for CG pitlords! ;)
TelinArtho 08-12-05, 10:36 AM	I prefer to think of myself as Neutral...
Pitlords 08-12-05, 10:56 AM	Giant Equipment: Rhino Hide (5180) [Ma]Greatclub (310) [Ma]Whip (302) Sack with 10 rocks (-) Bearskin of resistance+1 (1000) Additional crap (408)
Sunwolf 08-12-05, 11:21 AM	@cat Thanks for the gear list. We should be able to get you tactics later today.
Mind Rogue 08-12-05, 11:54 AM	@Maverick I think it would be very disappointing on my part to win by a bye, and no matter how good she is, I don't think Maylee can win a 2 on 1 fight. Assuming that all you did was correct your ACs and link to the fight, you have my permission to keep fighting, but we're still going to skunk you anyway. However, I guess this means it's up to my teammate to decide whether to call the match. @My players I have everyone's tactics. I'll probably run the fight either tonight or tomorrow.
Luni 08-12-05, 12:20 PM	@TCB: Still waiting for Corkus tactics. You'll need them if you want to beat the Harvester. I've received everyone else's tactics.
TelinArtho 08-12-05, 12:33 PM	@KerlanRayne - tactics received for Goran. Now just waiting for Maverick and Kaigan for Ansom and Maylee respectively...
Luni 08-12-05, 01:37 PM	I hate creatures that can polymorph and intelligent weaponry. Too many problems. I hate you Caterane for making me pitlord Indri's fight! Quick Question: Stench (Ex): A hezrou’s skin produces a foul-smelling, toxic liquid whenever it fights. Any living creature (except other demons) within 10 feet must succeed on a DC 24 Fortitude save or be nauseated for as long as it remains within the affected area and for 1d4 rounds afterward. Creatures that successfully save are sickened for as long as they remain in the area. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same hezrou’s stench for 24 hours. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes either condition from one creature. Creatures that have immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws. The save DC is Constitution-based. Is someone reaffected by the Nausea if the Hezrou won't let them stay away? Thats assuming they failed the saving throw. Do they get another save if the Hezrou approaches within 10'?
michael_noah 08-12-05, 01:56 PM	Grakk vs. Hagrid is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6947409&postcount=220) I hope that I'm not silly for the way I had them move...
Pittbull 08-12-05, 03:01 PM	Thanks for the run. It must have been pretty difficult with the withdrawing orc. Not much fun! So thanks a lot!!!
xanadu 08-12-05, 03:03 PM	virgo vs. mer-man is up. I wrote a story, check it out!
Caterane 08-12-05, 03:29 PM	A scythe 20 in the last round :rolleyes: Anyway, let's correct some things here. First thing is that Virgo falls unconscious after the AoO that disabled him. He draws the stone which triggers my AoO. An AoO takes place before the action that triggered it is executed. That means after I hit and bring him to zero, he finishes his move action to draw the stone, and this is a strenous act which brings him to -1. Secondly, he would have no actions left to manifest the stone because disabled characters can only use a move or standard action in a round, not both. He used his move action to draw the stone, so he cannot manifest it. Thirdly, disabled Virgo also falls unconscious after the manifesting (that's a strenous act). There will be no follow up attack. There are three different instances in this situation that are in my favor. Correct one and I win the fight. Not that it matters after (1) but Virgo wanted to sunder my weapon (had none) and trip me which should be the 20. This is also logical because my AC is so high and the -4 helps him. In any case, that's what he wanted to do. I am also sure that King Uther is aware that his character has no impr.trip feat; nethertheless, he clearly mentions tripping in his tactics (several times) so I don't think you need to pitlord-adapt here and change his tactic. He was also very well aware of the dispel psionics and even covered that in his tactic, yet, he did clearly NOT alter his tactics should he be hit by a dispel! You adapted here too. And finally, his trip is still +15 vs Merman+19 so it's definately very well possible to trip me! Pitlord adaption should be used if tactics broke down which is of course in no way the case here, especially since he covers all these events and the desired reaction in his tactics. Next point: Press the attack. If I have gotten to melee, stay there! Make him beat me at my own game(which he might). Use a combo of Trip and sunder to eliminate any weapons except his natural ones. Then change to Glaive if he is large and maintain my 15' reach. Since he has no impr.trip, I get an AoO against him, and may immideately try to trip him if he fails to trip me. If you go with your rolls, you can now either assign the 20 to the initial touch to trip, or use the next numbers in order (13 for trip touch, and 3 for opposed trip). My AoO is made with a 13 (hits and probably kills him) and the opposed trip is a 10 (vs his 3) which succeeds. Plus now I fullattack. PS: He even explicitely mentions to put the scythe away after the trip and use the glaive for damage. Please correct that. Thanks. Btw, thanks for the story! I really enjoyed it.
NiQil 08-12-05, 03:34 PM	A scythe 20 in the last round :rolleyes: Anyway, let's correct some things here. - Virgo wanted to sunder my weapon (had none) and trip me which should be the 20. This is also logical because my AC is so high and the -4 helps him. Quote: Originally Posted by King Uther Press the attack. If I have gotten to melee, stay there! Make him beat me at my own game(which he might). Use a combo of Trip and sunder to eliminate any weapons except his natural ones. Then change to Glaive if he is large and maintain my 15' reach. He even explicitely mentions to put the scythe away after the trip and use the glaive for damage. Since he has no impr.trip, I get an AoO against him, and may immideately try to trip him if he fails to trip me. If you go with your rolls, you can now either assign the 20 to the initial touch to trip, or use the next numbers in order (13 for trip touch, and 3 for opposed trip). My AoO is made with a 13 (hits) and the opposed trip is a 10 (vs his 3) which succeeds. Now I fullattack. Please correct that. Thanks. Actually, since Mer-Man had no weapons at that time, per his tactic that you quoted his next requirement was to use the glaive and maintain his 15' reach in melee, not trip. The trip part of his tactics went away since you had no weapons other than natural. So instead of the scythe hitting with the 20, it would be the glaive. At least that is how I interpret it.
waywreth 08-12-05, 03:49 PM	@soullord: Tactics Sent. Sorry for delay.
Aramil Dunskar 08-12-05, 05:23 PM	*Sigh* I don't think I'll ever have a good character in here.... Oh well... I'll think of something one day... -Aramil
michael_noah 08-12-05, 05:29 PM	I certainly don't think it was a bad character. I think that you just didn't foresee him sundering your weapon, which is completely understandable, since it's kind of strange. He had a big advantage there in reach. If he'd not had that particular tactic, I think your higher attack bonus and hit points would have won out.
Caterane 08-12-05, 05:34 PM	And you cannot make such an assessment from one fight alone.
Aramil Dunskar 08-12-05, 05:40 PM	Well I just don't know how to make him better, my melee force wasn't working at all against the spell casters, and even the normal melee people.... so I resorted to try and go with ranged, and that's not really working at all either. So I think I'll just make him earn some money crafting and not fighting so he can buy a new weapon.... -Aramil
Caterane 08-12-05, 05:44 PM	You cannot earn money unless you are fighting
Aramil Dunskar 08-12-05, 05:50 PM	Ahhh... crap... Well I guess I should go on a quest or something, I might be able to win that.... Now I just need to find an available questlord... -Aramil
Laughing_Dragon 08-12-05, 06:05 PM	[CENTER] From this week on you can earn money by using your skills - perform, sleight of hand, profession, and some crafts to be exact (see FAQ: Skills for details). Pitlords may find that request in the subject line of the sheet they are running a fight for. You need to add the extra income to the final rewards. The income is (Skill modifier+Take10)*ECL in gold. Example for lvl 3 PC: Sleight of hand (Cat's time) +9 earns you 57 gp extra this week (19*3). To ease up the Pitlords work and prevent any mistakes you are asked to write the correct amount in parethesis, like that: earning money with Profession (being John Malkovic) [45 gp]. Then, I want to ask the Questlords again to keep up with the time frame of Quests! There's a lot of red ink on the Quest Roster. Hm, I think that's all for now. Have fun guys :) CatJust because it's on the topic of money without fighting.
Aramil Dunskar 08-12-05, 06:13 PM	Actually what he means is that anyone can use those skills during the fight to earn more money on top of what they get when they win or lose. For instance, someone could win a match and earn 900 gp, and then use his Slight of Hand skill to earn 45 more gp. So after the match is over, that same person will win 900 xp, and 945 gp. @Michael_Noah: I don't know if you noticed this or not, but Grakk could also move 40 ft due to the Fast Movement ability. However, I do not think this would change the outcome of the fight. But for future references. -Aramil
Laughing_Dragon 08-12-05, 06:16 PM	Oh well, that needed repeating anyway XD
michael_noah 08-12-05, 07:04 PM	@Michael_Noah: I don't know if you noticed this or not, but Grakk could also move 40 ft due to the Fast Movement ability. However, I do not think this would change the outcome of the fight. But for future references. -Aramil Right, neither gladiators land speed ever came in to play, the entire battle was fought 40' off the floor of the coloseum.
Sunwolf 08-12-05, 09:23 PM	@Cat Tactics for Brilf sent by mail and PM.
TelinArtho 08-12-05, 11:51 PM	@Maverick - tactics received for Ansom. Still need Kaigan's tactics for Maylee.
nightbanegod 08-13-05, 01:06 AM	@ Gonbow ... im gettin kinda itchy... wonderin when "Dagnal (GuardianAngel) vs Horseman (Nightbanegod) vs Alac (Pauper)" will be posted... soon? sorry not tryin to rush ya im just anxious
TCB 08-13-05, 01:28 AM	Sorry guys I just got back and Got all my school work done, Senior year sucks. I will send my tatics out in the next 15 mins. And I will run all my battles sunday.
NiQil 08-13-05, 01:44 AM	@ Gonbow ... im gettin kinda itchy... wonderin when "Dagnal (GuardianAngel) vs Horseman (Nightbanegod) vs Alac (Pauper)" will be posted... soon? sorry not tryin to rush ya im just anxious Heh I know just how ya feel....it seems like, with the exception of a couple of matches, most everyone is running later with tactics and matches than they normally do. In my short time here, most battles are posted on or by Saturday, and most tactics get in on Wednesday or Thursday.....this week for some reason it seems like tactics didn't get in until Thursday or Friday....and I am guessing most battles will be done Saturday or Sunday. Maybe it's because of NFL preseason or school starting or something else. But look at it this way. Normally, Monday and Tuesday are kinda slow posting days here, with the exception of fight corrections. This week, there should be a flurry of activity starting tomorrow LOL.
xanadu 08-13-05, 02:43 AM	I'd like to hear what others have to say about Cat's point #1 in reference to round 12. I am not a rules lawyer, but I would think the manifestation of a touch attack spell and the actual touch are inextricably linked...if they weren't then you would be performing 2 standard actions in a round (manifesting a power and making a touch attack). What I am not sure of is whether or not Virgo can manifest the power to begin with. I enabled him to do it because he did not start the round disabled and entered into the disabled act while performing a move action. Merely finishing an action did not seem the same as actually doing the entire action. It seemed logical to me at the time that, yes, even though he is disbaled he could still perform 1 standard action because his move action began while he was fine. If a I charge a creature with reach, what happens if an AOO bring me to zero HPs? If you are disabled when executing a full attack, if you take feeback damage from fire shield or vicious weapon and brought to zero HPs do you automatically stop? Regarding #2 & #3, because he does not have the improved trip feat, trying to execute it would provoke an AOO, which if it hits - likely considering how debuffed he is and buffed out Mer-Man was - and thus pure folly. If Virgo is enlarged, buffed, and can do so wo/ provoking then it is a different story. Because Mer-Man did not have combat reflexes it was safe to attempt it once and even then it was utterly ineffective since Mer-Man was so buffed out. Any pitlord who continuosuly mindlessly executes such tactics which provoked AOOs with my gladiators would get an earful for not adapting. If Virgo were your gladiator Cat, I am sure you would chastise me for being bad pitlord if I kept trying to trip in that instance - as you very well should because it would be inept pitlording. To be honest, he should not have tried to trip you with the initial attack while you were invisible. I just assumed he had improved trip when I made the attack. Think about it. Suppose he successfully trips an invisible Mer-Man. What happens next? Mer-Man stands up and simply walks away because he is invisible. What has been accomplished? Not a darn thing execpt lose his invisibility for nothing. That's my mistake (it thankfully didnt matter since he missed the concealment check anyways). IF I were Virgo I would have swung the Scythe rather than use the empathic feedback stone. I dont care if it worked, I dont think it was his best move because the only way Mer-Man fails that save is rolling a 1. Plus he runs the risk of provoking which may wind up costing him the fight. I really do think I stayed pretty true to his wishes against my better judgement in some cases; I didn't just take over because that's not my job and King knows Virgo better than me. When I saw tripping was clearly futile because of the manner which they fight developed, I made the pitlord note and I know I am right here so I feel perfectly comfortable in having Virgo regular attack because it is what I would want done for me.
Caterane 08-13-05, 03:29 AM	Some facts: Uther is aware that Virgo has no impr.trip feat. He covered a debuff in his tactics. It was still +15 vs +19 so in no way futile as you portray it. Xanadu, especially when you see that the next roll is a 20 that completely changes a clear fight then you have to be VERY careful. In this case, there were not one but many things that need to be ignored in Uther's still working tactics so that you can use the scythe against Merman: You adapted on what you thought is best after seeing the fight unfold and by knowing the circumstances, deciding to ignore several parts of Uther's well-covered tactics and then - after these dubious adaption - using a scythe on the 20 instead of the requested glaive, and used a regular attack instead of the requested trip. Sorry Xanadu, but I don't think this is fair to me. Edit: As for (1), if you fullattack and get disabled you cannot attack on or lose a hp. That's clear. Likewise, if you charge and get disabled before the attack, and you move on and attack you lose a hitpoint.
Gonbow 08-13-05, 03:39 AM	@ Gonbow ... im gettin kinda itchy... wonderin when "Dagnal (GuardianAngel) vs Horseman (Nightbanegod) vs Alac (Pauper)" will be posted... soon? sorry not tryin to rush ya im just anxious Saturday (Today for me) or Sunday. I do apologize for the delay, but I have ample (RL) reasons. All my fights should be up before monday, so everyone will have at least a few days to pick them over.
Luni 08-13-05, 04:38 AM	The fight betweem Indri and an Efreeti is up here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6953744&postcount=222) Be warned. It is a long fight, but who won? I'll write a story tomorrow. @Caterane: Feel free to give me some feedback.
Caterane 08-13-05, 04:50 AM	Hi Luni, I haven't read everything as I have to go soon. What I noticed is that the defend trick is not subject to racial restrictions (also as per Elder discussion more than a year ago). The bat should have identified the image first so that I am not fooled by the efreet image. That's all I can see now. Else, thanks for running the fight. Next time, polymorph into a goblin if you want a short fight :D
sloisel 08-13-05, 08:01 AM	I was just looking at the fight, and I guess we don't care when it's a monster fight, but there was a problem with invisibility again (see my post in the fights of last week.) The spot DC to pinpoint an invisible moving creature is 40 (50 if nonmoving), not 28, unless I misunderstood the statement "Blightlord sees right through the invisibility spell protecting the Efreet." The DC 20 to notice a moving, living, invisible opponent doesn't pinpoint, especially when said creature is taking steps to hide on top of it all. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a Of course, if you're actively hiding, the DC go up. When actively hiding, you get a +20 to your hide check if you're moving, or +40 if you're immobile, guaranteeing that the DC to notice will be higher than the default 20 or 30, respectively. Beyond 30', as is the case here, you can't even notice with a spot check. You can also use the hide skill to increase the difficulty to pinpoint an invisible creature. The difficulty to pinpoint an invisible creature is hide check + 20 (invisible) + 20 (pinpoint). This guarantees that the DC to pinpoint a hiding invisible creature is higher than the default 40. This efreet's hide check, and the fact that it wasn't moving, gave it a spot DC of 63 to notice (not applicable since out of range) and 83 to pinpoint, plus 7 for distance to Blightlord (so DC 90 to pinpoint.) http://d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#spot The bat's blindsense doesn't reach to the efreet either (40' range vs ~75' distance.) Of course, it is much easier to pinpoint a character by listen, but an immobile, silent character can't be listened. Sebastien Loisel
Begferdeth 08-13-05, 10:06 AM	@ Altaris the 13th this time... Ch"Ch'Ili tactics sent! Heh, never noticed you were a 13 now :D And there are monster feats?!? Woah... Missed those completely!
nightbanegod 08-13-05, 10:26 AM	Saturday (Today for me) or Sunday. I do apologize for the delay, but I have ample (RL) reasons. All my fights should be up before monday, so everyone will have at least a few days to pick them over. No worries, just curious. RL gets that way... just found out last night that i have to get new brakes for my car... the hard way
michael_noah 08-13-05, 10:47 AM	Xanadu, especially when you see that the next roll is a 20 that completely changes a clear fight then you have to be VERY careful. In this case, there were not one but many things that need to be ignored in Uther's still working tactics so that you can use the scythe against Merman: ... after these dubious adaption - using a scythe on the 20 instead of the requested glaive, and used a regular attack instead of the requested trip. Edit: As for (1), if you fullattack and get disabled you cannot attack on or lose a hp. That's clear. Likewise, if you charge and get disabled before the attack, and you move on and attack you lose a hitpoint. Some comments here. I think that, from my reading of the tactics, the glaive probably should have been used. This is definitely up to interpretation, though, as King Uther mentions meleeing with the scythe and the glaive. It would be pretty stupid, though, to spend time to switch weapons when you're so outmatched. Also, I don't think there's a question as to whether a trip should have been attempted instead. The only time Uther requests a trip is for an AoO. On being disabled: I'm relatively certain that touching is "part of casting the spell", though I can't find a quote. I'm pretty sure that one can cast a spell, touch, and only lose the hitpoint afterward. If someone could find a quote to refute this, though, that would obviously change things. As for those other questions, in any case, you don't lose the hitpoint until after you perform the action. Now, I noticed in Xanadu's prefight that he specifically noted that he revealed the rolls one at a time, without looking at them in advance. If this is not the case, and he did know that a scythe attack would hit, that could call it in to question. As it stands, from his statement, I don't think we should accuse him of making a decision based on what he knew the outcome would be. Another thing here: (4) After dispel hits, rage/frenzy with 2xClaw, Bite, 2xRake. If I am in grapple, use 'attack an opponoment' to attack with all 5 natural weapons (albeit at -4) vs his Ac. I also get 18 bonus hitpoints. [Hmm. Techincally you can only rake in the water. Since the arena is considered a favorable environment and rake is probably one of the reasons you selected a Sahuagin, I don't have a problem with the rake attacks. I would guess/suggest if there is ever a similar grey area regarding one of Mer-Man's opponents, then they should also be given the benefit of the doubt.] A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks when it grapples its foe. A sahuagin also gains two rake attacks when it attacks while swimming. There is no question here at all. MerMan definitely cannot rake unless he is grappling or swimming.
Luni 08-13-05, 10:53 AM	@Caterane: Ok, your bat could have attacked first, but it wouldn't have made any difference. Also, you didn't waste any attacks on the image, as Blightlord based the real efreet, and Indri isn't stupid enough to attack an image, Blightlord runs through. Also, how does your bat differentiate between images and real creatures? It doesn't say anywhere under Blindsight or Blindsense that says it can recognize illusions. @sloisel: Thanks for the link. So I did invisibility wrong. :weep: With everyone having resist Fire, the efreeti would be hard pressed to deal damage with his scorching rays anyways.
Huan 08-13-05, 11:19 AM	@SoulLord Tactics for Dameon sent; thank you for your patience. (and sorry for the tardiness)
TelinArtho 08-13-05, 11:50 AM	@Kaigan - tactics received. I've got everyone now, so I'll run it when I get a chance - probably tonight or Monday.
nightbanegod 08-13-05, 12:34 PM	Also, how does your bat differentiate between images and real creatures? It doesn't say anywhere under Blindsight or Blindsense that says it can recognize illusions. actually.... Blindsense (Ex): Using nonvisual senses, such as acute smell or hearing, a creature with blindsense notices things it cannot see. The creature usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to pinpoint the location of a creature within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent the creature cannot see still has total concealment against the creature with blindsense, and the creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see. and.... Permanent Image Illusion (Figment) Level: Brd 6, Sor/Wiz 6 Effect: Figment that cannot extend beyond a 20-ft. cube + one 10-ft. cube/level (S) Duration: Permanent (D) This spell functions like silent image, except that the figment includes visual, auditory, olfactory, and thermal elements, and the spell is permanent. By concentrating, you can move the image within the limits of the range, but it is static while you are not concentrating. as well as...Silent Image Illusion (Figment) Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S, F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) Effect: Visual figment that cannot extend beyond four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level (S) Duration: Concentration Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with) Spell Resistance: No This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you. The illusion does not create sound, smell, texture, or temperature. You can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect. ....So..... if 1+1=3 then we know that a visual illusion has no physical body for echolocation to reflect off of, effectively making the illusion of the efreeti non-exsistant to the bat!!! TADA :king:
Vathelokai 08-13-05, 01:25 PM	Still have not heard from Iced. I will PM him and wait until this (saturday) evening before running it. Anixx has no default tactics so I will enjoy myself. :schemes:
Vathelokai 08-13-05, 01:37 PM	So, I was watching the boards while I was working on some other projects and I saw Mind Rogue had posted to the Battles thread. My heart began to flutter. "My fight is up!" Hurray! So I go to the page and bam! it's just the sheets, the tactics, and a reserved post. Man...
Erithmu 08-13-05, 01:53 PM	Silas vs Devon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6955995&postcount=225) is up here. If I ever make an archer w/ open ended tactics, I allow the pitlord to disqualify me and have my character ripped to shreds by merman, then Harvester and Virgo can fight over the soul.
Altaris13 08-13-05, 02:11 PM	... is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6956093&postcount=226) Story-antics and such were included in the combat.
Kaigan 08-13-05, 02:47 PM	Silas vs Devon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6955995&postcount=225) is up here. If I ever make an archer w/ open ended tactics, I allow the pitlord to disqualify me and have my character ripped to shreds by merman, then Harvester and Virgo can fight over the soul. Just one thing, don't think it will change the fight, it might, but not sure. And this goes for everyone. There is NO potion of expeditious retreat. Expeditious retreat has a range of personal and therefore cannot be made into a potion.
NiQil 08-13-05, 03:28 PM	Silas vs Devon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6955995&postcount=225) is up here. If I ever make an archer w/ open ended tactics, I allow the pitlord to disqualify me and have my character ripped to shreds by merman, then Harvester and Virgo can fight over the soul. Erithmu....when you get a moment, can you give me the 50/50 roll on whether the one missed shot I had caused the arrow to still be usable or not?
Erithmu 08-13-05, 03:51 PM	broken (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=133789)
Caterane 08-13-05, 04:25 PM	Concentration check: Virgo suffered damage while he manifested so he needs to make a concentration check Dc10+3+15 = 28. He has no focus so he needs to roll a 18+ anyway to manifest empathic transfer! Since the 20 is next in order of the rolls, it should be used on that so no crit later. Or use the 15 thereafter? Not enough to pass and no crit later. Or the next roll after the 20/15 crit is the 13; not enough to pass the check. In any case, Virgo falls.
NiQil 08-13-05, 04:34 PM	@Michael/Xanadu: Trip: As I've quoted above (1st post this page) from Uther's tactic, he clearly and undeniably wanted to trip me because he feared my AC would be too high. Xanadu decided to ignore that part because Virgo had no impr.trip feat!? That's like I write "sunder his weapon" and the pitlord ignores it because my character has no impr.sunder feat. Coincidently that Pitlord adaption won him the fight but that 1.25% chance is nothing you can base your decision to adapt on, nor the +15 vs +19 difference in trip mods. According to the portion you quoted from King's tactics, he did state that he wanted to use a trip/sunder combo specifically to get rid of all of your weapons except your natural ones. Press the attack. If I have gotten to melee, stay there! Make him beat me at my own game(which he might). Use a combo of Trip and sunder to eliminate any weapons except his natural ones. Then change to Glaive if he is large and maintain my 15' reach. He then stated after that to switch to the glaive if you are large (which you were) and keep his 15' reach with attacks with that weapon. You have already stated that Mer-Man was not armed at that time, thus the trip part of his tactics goes out the window. So, instead of drawing the scythe for the crit, in my opinion, the glaive should have been drawn and used, and the glaive should have been the weapon with which to crit.
Caterane 08-13-05, 04:38 PM	Doesn't matter anymore. Virgo doesn't pass the concentration check so he fails to manifest hostile transfer while disabled so he falls to -1. That saves us a lot of headaches I think.
NiQil 08-13-05, 04:46 PM	Doesn't matter anymore. Virgo doesn't pass the concentration check so he fails to manifest hostile transfer while disabled so he falls to -1. That saves us a lot of headaches I think. I don't buy that, because in other fights I have had that have had revisions, for rolls that have already taken place, they are kept with the same actions that they occurred with. The rolls don't just get used in the order they were rolled. So a fresh roll would need to be made for the Concentration by the Pitlord. If that is not the case, then past fights with mine and other characters would need to be redone, because that has how I have always seen it done. As an example, in a battle I had last week with a now-retired character, there was a save that I failed that caused me to be held. But as a result of other errors, there was a revision, and there was a concentration check that was needed to be done in order for the hold person to take place. The roll for my failed save was not used for this concentration check, it was kept with my save action. A new roll was made for the concentration check. If the existing roll had been used with the concentration check under the same ruling you are attempting to apply to your duel, then my opponent in that battle would have failed his concentration check, I would never have been held, and the battle would have probably gone in my favor. Based on how everyone else has been running their battles, there needs to be a fresh roll by the pitlord for the concentration check.
Caterane 08-13-05, 04:53 PM	Yes I agree. I proposed to keep the 20/15 assigned to the crit and use the next roll in order for the retroactive concentration check. A 13. Concentration failed. The crit never happens.
Mind Rogue 08-13-05, 04:57 PM	Okay, the team match, Valkin and Victor vs Kronos and Jodan is up. It was a close match, so everyone should come and see it. Now, I want to check that I did the Xp/Gp correctly, since Valkin had a mount with him. Jodan and Kronos each get the same amount of rewards, which should be (Valkin *1.25 for mount) + (Victor), split evenly two ways. Now, the question comes is if Valkin's mount affects how much Victor earns. Do they both get (Jodan + Kronos) * .75 (split), do they get (Jodan + Kronos) * .875 (split), because the mount has less influence with the two of them, or does Victor get the full amount while Valkin has his half cut down?
NiQil 08-13-05, 04:58 PM	Yes I agree. I proposed to keep the 20/15 assigned to the crit and use the next roll in order for the retroactive concentration check. A 13. Concentration failed. The crit never happens. If you agree, then you would *not use the next roll for the retroactive concentration check. A fresh roll would need to be made by the pitlord. It is only fair to give the character that small chance of succeeding. Granted, it will probably not fall his way, but it is still the only fair way to do it. That 13 still needs to be kept with the action it was rolled for, regardless of whether that action continues to be a part of the duel or not due to the revision.
Erithmu 08-13-05, 05:16 PM	Mini vs Avatar of Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6957320&postcount=227) Comming soon the all juggling wand user. (reference Life's tactics)
Vathelokai 08-13-05, 05:17 PM	Round 1: Valkin hits with a bolt. Jodan is a monk with deflect arrows. This wouldn't be enough damage to to change the outcome though. It's a shame I can't deflect cold ray.
NiQil 08-13-05, 05:18 PM	Okay, the team match, Valkin and Victor vs Kronos and Jodan is up. It was a close match, so everyone should come and see it. Now, I want to check that I did the Xp/Gp correctly, since Valkin had a mount with him. Jodan and Kronos each get the same amount of rewards, which should be (Valkin *1.25 for mount) + (Victor), split evenly two ways. Now, the question comes is if Valkin's mount affects how much Victor earns. Do they both get (Jodan + Kronos) * .75 (split), do they get (Jodan + Kronos) * .875 (split), because the mount has less influence with the two of them, or does Victor get the full amount while Valkin has his half cut down? @ Mind Rogue There are several errors that need to be corrected that may very well change the outcome of this battle. Round 3: Valkin needs to either be thrown from his horse due to it being grappled, or at the very lease make a ride check to stay mounted. Round 4: Why am I getting a -4 penalty to hit Valkin at that point? with Shillelagh cast, I am at a net -1 from the to hit listings on my character sheet....where is the other -3 coming from? Also, how does Valkin connect for a hit with a total roll of 14 to hit vs my AC of 17? Edit: I just realized that I have it incorrectly listed as a 13. But the Dragonhide shirt is listed as part of my equipment, which means I was wearing it. My bad in the incorrect listing, but it still should be counted as part of my AC Also, why did I not tap my tattoo of force screen in that round as I stated in my buffing sequence? I did not state to continue my buffs if combat had already ensued, so I will take that as my mistake in tactics. However, it should have been activated at the first opportunity. Round 5: Valkin had a 16 to hit, again my AC is a 17. So neither the hits in round 4 or 5 would connect. Edit: See above comment regarding armor.
Purkake 08-13-05, 05:34 PM	Round 1: Valkin hits with a bolt. Jodan is a monk with deflect arrows. This wouldn't be enough damage to to change the outcome though. It's a shame I can't deflect cold ray. You have to be aware of the attack to deflect it. Flatfooted=not aware Cheers :)
Caterane 08-13-05, 05:42 PM	@NiQil: I completely disagree with that! Xanadu rolled all rolls in advance so he uses these! Your suggestion would just be another or many decision in Virgo's favor and would be highly unfair!
Altaris13 08-13-05, 05:42 PM	OK... I'm completely confused by the outcome of that fight. Now, I fully expected to lose, but I also expected there to be more to it than that. "After my last fight you might get lucky if I don’t improvise surrender" >>OK, sure thing, understandable & sort of funny, at least, until you get to the bottom. If you were gonna waste my resources, then you SHOULD HAVE just surrendered. Going to assume forward left >> Good there! Main tactics: Beginning on Round 2, climb the pillars to about fourty feet (should be high enough to avoid glaive even if he's mounted.) Move silent when ever possible, move/climb at half-speed to avoid penalties. >>Here's where I have a problem. Round 1: Mini-cooper quaffs a potion of spider climb and moves upward (+20ft) >>Should only be 15ft & a Move Silent check. Round 2: M&M mini’s pulls out his powerstone of inertal armor and uses it (L list 16+7-6distance vs DC 0: that way) >>Come again? What is the DC 0 based on? Not casting rules. Manifestation of Inertial Armor has no audible sound. It is 'visual' only & LOS is blocked. "where he sees Mini standing on the pillars" >>The pillars go ALL the way up to the ceiling. That is key to my tactic of hiding "up high." Hide behind the pillars & snipe/manifest as able. I mean hey, I know my chances are slim (for now) with this PC. But at least give me a /fair/ chance.
Vathelokai 08-13-05, 05:43 PM	You have to be aware of the attack to deflect it. Flatfooted=not aware Cheers :) If Valkin and Jodan both had line of sight with each other from the start, how did Jodan get flat footed? Since it is an arena, how could Jodan not be aware that the fight had started, and the person over there on the horse was comming at him? Is this one of those circumstances where the initative rules trump logic? If that's the case, then I'm cool with it; I was just under the impression that it didn't work that way.
Vathelokai 08-13-05, 05:46 PM	Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. I guess so.
NiQil 08-13-05, 05:49 PM	@NiQil: I completely disagree with that! Xanadu rolled all rolls in advance so he uses these! Your suggestion would just be another or many decision in Virgo's favor and would be highly unfair! If that is the case, then I would agree with you. I was not aware that *all rolls were done in advance of the fight. That is a *bad way to run fights, in my opinion. I think they should be done as each turn happens.
Mind Rogue 08-13-05, 06:12 PM	First off, Jodan was flat-footed when the bolt hit him, so he can't use Deflect Arrows. @ Mind Rogue There are several errors that need to be corrected that may very well change the outcome of this battle. Round 3: Valkin needs to either be thrown from his horse due to it being grappled, or at the very lease make a ride check to stay mounted. Perhaps, although the rules don't say he gets thrown off or that he makes a ride check if his mount is grappled. I envision it as he's still balanced on top of the horse as Jodan runs up and grabs it. After all, the mount is not prone. Also, I forgot to add his +1 bonus for being mounted throughout the battle, so things even out anyway. Round 4: Why am I getting a -4 penalty to hit Valkin at that point? with Shillelagh cast, I am at a net -1 from the to hit listings on my character sheet....where is the other -3 coming from? [COLOR=Red]Victor hit you with Inflict Pain, which causes a -4 penalty on attacks, since you failed your save. Also, how does Valkin connect for a hit with a total roll of 14 to hit vs my AC of 17? Edit: I just realized that I have it incorrectly listed as a 13. But the Dragonhide shirt is listed as part of my equipment, which means I was wearing it. My bad in the incorrect listing, but it still should be counted as part of my AC You never managed to tap your tatoo of force screen. As for your "dragonhide shirt", I figured it was a shirt made out of dragonhide, not Hide armor made out of dragonhide. Finally, for some reason, Firefox gives me trouble with nestled spoilers for some reason. Now that I actually have it open, I feel tainted for having to use IE. Still, you were not able to unambiguously identify what your armor was, nor is it listed as part of your AC. Also, why did I not tap my tattoo of force screen in that round as I stated in my buffing sequence? I did not state to continue my buffs if combat had already ensued, so I will take that as my mistake in tactics. However, it should have been activated at the first opportunity. I assumed that you would rather try to fight back rather than keep getting hit as you tried to continue buffing. Once Valkin came this close, you never really had an opportunity. Round 5: Valkin had a 16 to hit, again my AC is a 17. So neither the hits in round 4 or 5 would connect. Edit: See above comment regarding armor. See above response Overall, I suggest that you say that you say that you are wearing dragonhide chain shirt, not a dragonhide shirt, and I'm not even sure you can have that (how do you make the little rings from that stuff). I suggest that you also mark it as part of your AC. Also, any other Firefox users out there have trouble with SBlocks?
NiQil 08-13-05, 06:32 PM	First off, Jodan was flat-footed when the bolt hit him, so he can't use Deflect Arrows. Overall, I suggest that you say that you say that you are wearing dragonhide chain shirt, not a dragonhide shirt, and I'm not even sure you can have that (how do you make the little rings from that stuff). I suggest that you also mark it as part of your AC. Also, any other Firefox users out there have trouble with SBlocks? As I said, I fully admit to the error in marking it on my AC. But it is listed in my equipment carried as armor, and I see no problem listing it is as a Dragonhide Shirt, anymore than other list Mithral Shirts. But either way, the fight still needs to be revised with the correct AC being used. It *is marked on my character sheet as items carried, and it *is listed as armor. And there are no rules that I could find that restrict the type of armor that can be made from dragonhide. I asked this before the character was created in the Tavern, and got no replies either. I think that I was pretty clear in denoting the "Dragonhide Shirt" as "Armor" in my equipment. Again, I take full responsibility for it not being listed correctly under my Armor Class, but that does not change the fact that it still should be counted as my correct armor class, much like we do for people who give themselves a higher armor class than they should actually have, and the pitlords use the corrected AC. You have covered all of my other questions, but the two hits in rounds 4 and 5 would *not have hit, and I believe that the fight needs to be revised accordingly.
Vathelokai 08-13-05, 06:35 PM	I use firefox and have problems with NiQil's sheets, but not with anyone elses (such as Deadly Assassin's sig). I havn't figured out what the deal is. I usually hit the "quote" button so that I can look at the code. The only other thing I can find to gripe about is that Valkin did a quick dismount in round 5 without the ride check. Otherwise he couldn't have attacked. I suppose he could have pulled out his lance and poked at Kronos, but he would need a ride check when the horse fell. I appologize for the whole horse grapple thing, but I think there should be a ride check or something. Imagine a halfling trying to sit on the shoulders of two boxers...the image gets more silly if you imagine the halfling sitting on top of two greco-roman wrestlers. In this arguement, Jodan basicly ran up and put the horse in a headlock. Horses tend to flail around and buck if they get caught on something. I've seen it. I can see your arguement that he wouldn't nessicarly be thrown, but I think a check is in order, ride: stay in saddle specificly, since grappling (in my mind) constitues "bucking unexpectedly".
Erithmu 08-13-05, 06:55 PM	PM sent to Altaris13: RE: da fight
Mind Rogue 08-13-05, 07:35 PM	Okay, I've fixed the match, and apparently your unusual armor does change things a little bit, although it did give me much grief. The ride checks to stay in the saddle where moot, since there are no automatic failures on skill checks and Valkin's ride skill is +7, meaning he stays in the saddle automatically. Also, he didn't have to do a fast dismount: he takes a move action to get down, 5 ft steps it, then attacks. The reason he had to dismount is that I figured he couldn't reach his lance from down below, he can't move while on his mount, and Kronos had just taken a 5ft step out of his reach. Also, I do need to make sure that I am doing Valkin and Victor's rewards right. Normally, they each get 300 Xp/Gp for losing, but Valkin has a mount. Does this merely subtract 25% from Valkins rewards, both, or is the penalty split between both of them? Finally, I did try hitting the quote button, but with the endless scrolling (because none of the SBlocks are condensed), and because of the formatting issues for Kronos's gear, it is a pain to figure out what he has. I'm also curious why Firefox has problems with some Sblocks and not others.
Vathelokai 08-13-05, 08:00 PM	If I understand correctly, you cannot take a 5' step in the same round as a move action. Maybe it's you can't move the same round as a 5' step. Don't rerun the fight over it or anything, I just want to know for future reference.
NiQil 08-13-05, 08:04 PM	Okay, I've fixed the match, and apparently your unusual armor does change things a little bit, although it did give me much grief. The ride checks to stay in the saddle where moot, since there are no automatic failures on skill checks and Valkin's ride skill is +7, meaning he stays in the saddle automatically. Also, he didn't have to do a fast dismount: he takes a move action to get down, 5 ft steps it, then attacks. The reason he had to dismount is that I figured he couldn't reach his lance from down below, he can't move while on his mount, and Kronos had just taken a 5ft step out of his reach. Also, I do need to make sure that I am doing Valkin and Victor's rewards right. Normally, they each get 300 Xp/Gp for losing, but Valkin has a mount. Does this merely subtract 25% from Valkins rewards, both, or is the penalty split between both of them? Finally, I did try hitting the quote button, but with the endless scrolling (because none of the SBlocks are condensed), and because of the formatting issues for Kronos's gear, it is a pain to figure out what he has. I'm also curious why Firefox has problems with some Sblocks and not others. I appreciate your diligence here, Mind Rogue, and just so you know, I have removed the sblocks from the two characters who have their battles posted already, and will do so for the others as soon as their fights are posted so that hopefully no one else will have this problem. It might have something to do with the fact that I have a lot of bolding and color changes and whatnot in my characters to make them easy on the eyes and easy to read. I dunno. But both you and Vath have had problems with them, and you both use Firefox. BTW, I think your gold and xp calculations are wrong....if Joden and Kronus get an additional 25% due to Foreman being there, then it should be 1125 xp/gp, not 1012.5. However if we are only supposed to get an additional 12.5%, then your totals are correct. I only mention this because you were asking about Valking losing 25% for having Foreman around, so I didn't know which is correct.
TelinArtho 08-13-05, 08:58 PM	@Mindrogue, I believe the xp is done as follows: Winners get ((player1 xp) + (player2 xp))/2 So if player 1 has a mount that is worth 25%, it will work out to be (1.25*player1 + player2)/2 or (900*1.25+900)/2= (1125+900)/2 = 2025/2 = 1012.5 xp (and gp in this case). This number would then be modified if they each had a cohort or ally. The losers work out the same way, they get 300+300/2 = 600/2 = 300. Valkin, with his mount, gets 25% less, or 225. Victor, gets the full 300 though. Once again - I believe this is the correct way. If I am in error - someone let me know. /d
NiQil 08-13-05, 09:12 PM	@Mindrogue, I believe the xp is done as follows: Winners get ((player1 xp) + (player2 xp))/2 So if player 1 has a mount that is worth 25%, it will work out to be (1.25*player1 + player2)/2 or (900*1.25+900)/2= (1125+900)/2 = 2025/2 = 1012.5 xp (and gp in this case). This number would then be modified if they each had a cohort or ally. The losers work out the same way, they get 300+300/2 = 600/2 = 300. Valkin, with his mount, gets 25% less, or 225. Victor, gets the full 300 though. Once again - I believe this is the correct way. If I am in error - someone let me know. /d Would this mean that, in our team duel, that since Foreman was involved, that both Kronos and Joden should get ((900*0.25)+(900*0.25))/2=1125 xp/gp? See my post just above yours.
TelinArtho 08-13-05, 09:17 PM	Okay - I just had my opportunity to look through the fight. The only thing that comes to mind is why did Valkin attack Kronos, when my tactics said to default to Jodan if both were available? According to the fight, I start the round at -7,0 and Kronos has already moved to 0,3. Jodan is at 1,2. Now, you haven't specified whether you are using the top left corner of the mount when specifying location, but assuming you have used that, my mount has moved to -2,1. Using the default above, that means my mount is at -2,1, -1,1, -2,2, -1,2. In this case, at -1,2 - I have the reach with the lance to hit Jodan. However, it really depends on where the default location of the mount is in order to determine this. If you can clarify which space is the default for a large character for you - that would be great. Round 2 Kronos taps a tattoo of Skate and draws his staff. Valkin drops his crossbow and draws his lance, and he edges his mount closer to where his foes were. Victor follows as fast as he is able. Jodan taps a tattoo fo Vigor and hides behind his ally. Kronos: 25/25 @ (-2, 1); Skate (9 r) Valkin: 27/27 @ (-7, 0); Victor: 15/15 @ (-7, 7); Jodan: 13 (8)/12 @ (1, 2); Vigor (9 r) Round 3 Not quite ready yet, Kronos steps back and cast Shillegagh on his quarterstaff. Valkin, however, is ready for combat, but is having difficulty getting his mount in to fight, do to the cramped conditions. However, he still manages to make it in there, and he attacks Kronos with the lance. [18] +6 = 24 vs AC 13 [hit] for [7] +3 = 10 dmg. Victor hears the sounds of battle ([13] +7 = 20 vs DC 4 [to within 5 ft]) and moves to where he can make Kronos cringe with pain. [9] +6 = 15 vs DC 16 [fail]. Jodan decides to tumble in and attempts to grab Valkin's mount. Tumble: [14] +7 = 21 [success] Touch Attack: [14] +6 = 20 vs AC 10 [hit] Grapple: [13] +14 = 27 vs [12] +10 = 22 [grapple] for [4] +5 = 9 dmg Valkin makes a ride check to stay in the saddle [+7 ride = automatic] Kronos: 15/25 @ (0, 3); skate (8 r), Shillegagh (19 r) and Inflict Pain (2 r); Valkin: 27/27 @ (-2, 1); mounted w/lance on top of grapplers. Foreman: 13/22; grappling Victor: 15/15 @ (-1, 6); 2+1 pp remaining Jodan: 13 (8)/12 Vigor (8 r), grappling In round 4, I again attack Kronos - when Jodan is trying to KILL my mount. Yes Kronos is attacking me, but as I said - I wanted to attack Jodan first if given the option of both. Since Jodan AC would be 12 (no dex mod because he is grappling), I'd hit him in this round and then again in round 5. It looks like you had rolled damage for the round 4 attack - 6. This means he has 7hp left for my attack in round 5 (50-50 shot to knock him down). While this may not change the result of the fight, the tactics I stated should've been followed more closely.
TelinArtho 08-13-05, 09:23 PM	No actually, I should change the player 1 and player 2 designation to clarify: Winners: Kronos and Jodan get: 900*1.25 xp (Valkin) + 900*1 xp (Victor) = 2025 xp/2 = 1012.5xp. If either Kronos or Jodan had used a mount or something to change their xp portion, this amount would be modified. Losers: Valkin and Victor get 300*1 xp (Kronos) + 300*1 xp (Jodan) = 600/2 = 300xp. Since Valkin brought a mount, he would get 300*.75 xp = 225xp. Since Victor didn't - he get's the full 300.
NiQil 08-13-05, 09:27 PM	No actually, I should change the player 1 and player 2 designation to clarify: Winners: Kronos and Jodan get: 900*1.25 xp (Valkin) + 900*1 xp (Victor) = 2025 xp/2 = 1012.5xp. If either Kronos or Jodan had used a mount or something to change their xp portion, this amount would be modified. Losers: Valkin and Victor get 300*1 xp (Kronos) + 300*1 xp (Jodan) = 600/2 = 300xp. Since Valkin brought a mount, he would get 300*.75 xp = 225xp. Since Victor didn't - he get's the full 300. I'm not used to having partial experience points....do we just keep track of those like anything else, or do we round those? I would guess we just keep track of the, since casters who scribe scrolls could very easily end up with partial experience points.
xanadu 08-13-05, 09:44 PM	I'd round the XP; I'm sure that 1/2 point wont make a difference :) I think telin has the right idea about XP rewards. If only 1 mount is brought, then the non-mount gladiators should not be treated as if they had mounts as per team xp calculation. though I think the rewards get divided equally amongst the team [it is after all a team event] though I am not 100% sure of this. eiletha vs. Buttmunch is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6958855) a boring fight in which one gladiator got all the rolls and the other none.
LLMadCow 08-13-05, 10:22 PM	If I understand correctly, you cannot take a 5' step in the same round as a move action. Maybe it's you can't move the same round as a 5' step. Don't rerun the fight over it or anything, I just want to know for future reference. You cannot MOVE in the same round you take a 5' step. Move Action + 5' step + Standard Action = All Good. LL
TelinArtho 08-14-05, 12:10 AM	Well my 2v2 fight is up. I'm amazed at how much longer these are to run. Zahrat (Mind Rogue) & Goran (KerlanRayne) vs Maylee (Kaigan) & Ansom (Maverick) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6959740) Hopefully it will look solid to all.
Caterane 08-14-05, 08:16 AM	Dunewalker and Brilf vs 2 monsters is up.
Purkake 08-14-05, 09:01 AM	That went close, too close. You forgot to add the 14 damage to the hill giant in round 6 so he would have dropped earlier. Mmm con drain... Also why didn't the Wraith use walls as cover? And shouldn't you have rolled a 1d4 to see when Brilf would have been risen as a wraith AND made the fight go on?
nightbanegod 08-14-05, 09:27 AM	i wonder if briff could pick up a template for this fight ... he did get sucked to death...!!!!
michael_noah 08-14-05, 10:53 AM	Concentration check: Virgo suffered damage while he manifested so he needs to make a concentration check Dc10+3+15 = 28. He has no focus so he needs to roll a 18+ anyway to manifest empathic transfer! Since the 20 is next in order of the rolls, it should be used on that so no crit later. Or use the 15 thereafter? Not enough to pass and no crit later. Or the next roll after the 20/15 crit is the 13; not enough to pass the check. In any case, Virgo falls. I can't believe the rest of us missed this. Good catch. Shouldn't he actually try manifesting defensively, though? On the subject of which roll to use for the concentration check: I believe we should use a new roll - here's why. As Cat said, if the pitlord knows in advance what the rolls will be, there is no way to decide impartially what the gladiator should do. It's really a weird philosophical question about which result is the "right" one. Or whether it is still "random". So, I'm ok with using the old roll (the next one in line), too. In the future, though, I think we should avoid this situation entirely. I'd propose that the CoCo forbids rolling a bunch of rolls in advance and trying to use them in order. I'd rather see pitlords roll with their own dice and just keep track. I trust them more than I trust that we can come up with an equitable solution in a situation like this.
Maraxus 08-14-05, 11:30 AM	If I will pitlord a fight (I'm really thinking about it), I will definitly not roll the dice in advance. :D
Altaris13 08-14-05, 11:42 AM	If I will pitlord a fight (I'm really thinking about it), I will definitly not roll the dice in advance. :D I don't roll in advance either. I think that is lazy and imcompetent. It totally removes the ability to "think as the character" as the fight progresses. On a similar subject... I've replied to Rith's PM. Let the fight stand as is. Save me the money of continuing to buff. This is the SECOND time I've been screwed over because a Pitlord did not perform their Due Diligence. If you look over the tactics, Mini had a serious chance of nailing Balbanes. He left his armor at home! With an AC of 13, I have a better than 50% chance of hitting him with the crossbow and with a damn good range. Not only did Uther expect I would NOT use the crossbow, he made it EASIER for me to do so. Besides that, what is Uther's response to getting hit at range? "Hide and Heal." Whatever. "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." If you're going to Pitlord only because you need the credits, at least give your "players" the courtesy of running the fight CORRECTLY and with DUE DILIGENCE. Don't wank out and be lazy about it.
Sunwolf 08-14-05, 12:24 PM	@Cat Doesn't change the match any but I do want to point out that the wraith's drain is not automatic. Brilf's Fort save is +13 when he fights the wraith. So he shouldn't be losing con except on a roll of a 1. From SRD: Constitution Drain (Su) Living creatures hit by a wraith’s incorporeal touch attack must succeed on a DC 14 Fortitude save or take 1d6 points of Constitution drain. The save DC is Charisma-based. On each such successful attack, the wraith gains 5 temporary hit points. Kudos to Dunewalker the Giant Slayer!
Maraxus 08-14-05, 12:26 PM	Ticked off? At me? Size 7 and a very angry smilie *ducks* :gah:
xanadu 08-14-05, 12:53 PM	Michael - You are right that rolling numbers in advance is not ideal. It really was the only way I could have a record of rolls because my internet connect is highly unreliable since my parents still live in the 1990s computerwise. I looked at some old COCo fights with it done and it seemed attractive because I did want to have a record since it was the highest level bout and it was the only doable alternative to rolling dice in front of me. At least with the pre-rolls there is a verifiable record, it seemed the better solution at the time as the Scythe crit counts it is there for all to see. I do agree it should not be common practice and, yeah, it probably is better just for the pitlord to roll real dice in that situation. So we learned something. When I go back to school, I wont have to worry about internet issues. I do not think I would allow Virgo to make that check defensively. Here is why. Cat's original contention that he can't manifest that in the first place because of his disabled condition may be correct. Granted, the action was not started in the disabled condition, but the AOO happens before the action is completed so it is undeniable that Virgo expended effort to complete the action while at zero HP. It does seem somewhat unfair that Virgo can only do a fraction of a move action while disabled and maybe it really is Virgo's first action started when disabled is the one action allowed . This clearly pushes RAW what one can do while in a disabled condition so it does not seem correct to allow Virgo to place [I]more stress upon himself by manifesting defensively. If he is able to get this done, it is literally a last gasp lunge. Since it is a last gasp lunge and if I want to argue the move, draw, and manifest can be done while being put into the disabled condition, then making the DC check off Mer-Man's claw damage certainly makes sense to me at this point. As Cat said to Niquil, the integrity of the original rolls should be preserved which would make Virgo's d20 roll the next in line which is a 13. Unfortunetly, using his psionic focus (15) will not help because the DC is 28 so he needs an 18. I will not alter anything until I give Uther a chance to respond, it is only fair.
nightbanegod 08-14-05, 01:00 PM	NOW NOW CHILDREN.... NO NEED TO USE BIG WORDS AND HARSH LANGUAGE.... :pint: :love: :pint: cant we all just get along? What this boils down to is that if the Pitlord rolls all his rolls in advance then the fight is already predetermined and there is no leeway to handle situations like this, and since caterane is adamant about not losing this fight because he wants his character to win, as do we all (want our own characters to win) we should just roll a d20, see if king uthers character makes that slim 15% chance of success and move on with our lives ... because at the end of the day ... guess what.... ITS STILL A GAME!!!
michael_noah 08-14-05, 01:30 PM	Michael - You are right that rolling numbers in advance is not ideal. It really was the only way I could have a record of rolls because my internet connect is highly unreliable since my parents still live in the 1990s computerwise. I looked at some old COCo fights with it done and it seemed attractive because I did want to have a record since it was the highest level bout and it was the only doable alternative to rolling dice in front of me. At least with the pre-rolls there is a verifiable record, it seemed the better solution at the time as the Scythe crit counts it is there for all to see. I do not think I would allow Virgo to make that check defensively. Here is why. Cat's original contention that he can't manifest that in the first place because of his disabled condition may be correct. Granted, the action was not started in the disabled condition, but the AOO happens before the action is completed so it is undeniable that Virgo expended effort to complete the action while at zero HP. ... Since it is a last gasp lunge and if I want to argue the move, draw, and manifest can be done while being put into the disabled condition, then making the DC check off Mer-Man's claw damage certainly makes sense to me at this point. As Cat said to Niquil, the integrity of the original rolls should be preserved which would make Virgo's d20 roll the next in line which is a 13. Unfortunetly, using his psionic focus (15) will not help because the DC is 28 so he needs an 18. I will not alter anything until I give Uther a chance to respond, it is only fair. I understand why you did the online rolls, and if this particular situation hadn't come up, it would have been the best choice. That's why I think we should council against it in the future, since it seems like such a good idea. Cat may be right about the manifesting and touching while disabled- but I'm relatively sure he's not. I'll look further for a quote to back that up. I'm not sure why it would suggest that he should not have manifested defensively in the first place - then he never even would have suffered an AoO. I just don't know how to handle what roll should be next, I can see a valid argument for making a new roll, or for using the 13. Either way makes sense in some ways, which is why we need to not roll in advance in the future.
GuardianAngel 08-14-05, 01:42 PM	Hey @ Silas vs Devon by Erithmu Reduce Person lasts 50 rounds, It is casted at a CL 5 becuase it is a quicken spell. Also I said I would like to use my psionic Weapon into the club so thier should be an additional 2d6 plus the 2d6+3(x2). Anothering I thought I but in my tatics is I wanted to wait for 6 rounds to wear out his force screen. that was pivitoal for my tatics thats why I said it. I knew I had no chance with that up so i wanted to kneel for 6 rounds. the ready action was to apply the oil when i seen him. but to still remain their. The reason being is becuase I had cover (+4 AC) and I was kneeling (+2 AC) so my AC would have been 27 which would have meant he needed a 19 or a 20 to hit. Again I would like if you could rerun this battle with my tatics in mind. Psionic Weapon states that you use it on a melee weapon not a melee attack. I would like a rulling on that please. Becuase if we are going to clairfy that all melee weaons if used in range attacks become range weapons then thier are many loop wholes around that.
NiQil 08-14-05, 02:05 PM	Hey @ Silas vs Devon by Erithmu Reduce Person lasts 50 rounds, It is casted at a CL 5 becuase it is a quicken spell. Also I said I would like to use my psionic Weapon into the club so thier should be an additional 2d6 plus the 2d6+3(x2). Anothering I thought I but in my tatics is I wanted to wait for 6 rounds to wear out his force screen. that was pivitoal for my tatics thats why I said it. I knew I had no chance with that up so i wanted to kneel for 6 rounds. the ready action was to apply the oil when i seen him. but to still remain their. The reason being is becuase I had cover (+4 AC) and I was kneeling (+2 AC) so my AC would have been 27 which would have meant he needed a 19 or a 20 to hit. Again I would like if you could rerun this battle with my tatics in mind. Psionic Weapon states that you use it on a melee weapon not a melee attack. I would like a rulling on that please. Becuase if we are going to clairfy that all melee weaons if used in range attacks become range weapons then thier are many loop wholes around that. I could be wrong about this, as I have not looked at the SRD, but if something is cast with a metamagic feat, I do not believe the CL of the power increases. It only uses higher level slots, and if you are purchasing it, it would cost more. The CL would still be the CL of the spell before it was quickened. The extra cost you are paying is to be able to cast it more quickly (by having it quickened), but I do not think that would also raise the duration of the spell, since the duration is still based on the CL of the spell itself and not on the spell + a feat effect. Again, I could be wrong.
GuardianAngel 08-14-05, 02:14 PM	The reason why Reduce person Poition is 250gp is becuase it is a 1st lvl spell x caster lvl 5 x 50gp. Not that this changes the battle all to much, other then the fact that my tatic of waiting wasn't clear enough i guess.
Luni 08-14-05, 02:23 PM	The fight between Juntar and Lothan is up Here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6962853&postcount=231) Story included, and one question. Does invisibility break at the start of the casting of sleep, or when the spell actually finishes? Thanks!
NiQil 08-14-05, 02:33 PM	The reason why Reduce person Poition is 250gp is becuase it is a 1st lvl spell x caster lvl 5 x 50gp. Not that this changes the battle all to much, other then the fact that my tatic of waiting wasn't clear enough i guess. Actually, the reason you are paying 250 is because it is a 1st level spell with a feat that raises the spell level cost by an additional 4 levels. For purchase purposes, this raises the spell cost to caster level 5, but for *drinking purposes, this is still a CL 1 spell that has been quickened. When you drink it, you are still only drinking a CL 1 potion. Thus, it would have a duration of 10 rounds. This is also the reason Enlarge Person has a wonky cost. Same principle.
xanadu 08-14-05, 02:37 PM	Michael - Virgo does not know the power and thus must draw a powerstone which provokes an AOO. Gun to my head, I'd say (for now) Virgo can manifest that power in a disabled state, but it sure does seem some sort on concentration check is called for...it is doing more than what the PHB says a disabled character can do. Yes the council should vote against pre-rolls in the future; I agree I'd rather trust the pitlord's own dice.
Faroth 08-14-05, 02:41 PM	Yeah, I won another fight =D Now, I will correct the various mistakes in my character sheet. Just in case, the DC for my scroll of sleep was 15 (10+1+4 because it was crafted by me) and I'd like to know the answer for the question of invisibility ending in the beginning round or the finishing round. See u P.D. @Luni: Sorry for the last changes in my tactics! and thanks for being so comprenhensive!
xanadu 08-14-05, 02:41 PM	Actually, the reason you are paying 250 is because it is a 1st level spell with a feat that raises the spell level cost by an additional 4 levels. For purchase purposes, this raises the spell cost to caster level 5, but for *drinking purposes, this is still a CL 1 spell that has been quickened. It *has to be quickened to be allowed in a potion, because the casting time is one full round. For it to have an instantaneous effect as a potion, it must have a standard casting time, hence the reason for the quickening. But when you drink it, you are still only drinking a CL 1 potion. Thus, it would have a duration of 10 rounds. This is also the reason Enlarge Person has a wonky cost. Same principle. I'd agree there is some sort of fudge factor may be embedded in the cost, but not for this reason. Quicken spells raise the spells level by 4. 5th level spells are illigeal to put in potions. Also, the caster level for quicken enlarge is 9th level. A quickened enlarge would be much more expensive. Personally I think the inconsistent cost is stupid.
michael_noah 08-14-05, 02:43 PM	oh, wow, i missed that. sorry. Wait, then. If he was attacked on an AoO for drawing the stone, there's no need for a concentration check. He didn't begin manifesting until after the AoO. there is no check required to do something in a disabled state, you just lose a hitpoint after doing it. you can attack, run, anything - but you lose a hitpoint. even if you heal yourself, as virgo did, you still lose 1 hitpoint after performing any strenuous activity. Michael - Virgo does not know the power and thus must draw a powerstone which provokes an AOO. Gun to my head, I'd say (for now) Virgo can manifest that power in a disabled state, but it sure does seem some sort on concentration check is called for...it is doing more than what the PHB says a disabled character can do. Yes the council should vote against pre-rolls in the future; I agree I'd rather trust the pitlord's own dice.
michael_noah 08-14-05, 02:44 PM	We discussed the Enlarge Person (and Reduce Person) potions a few weeks ago, and I think that the concensus is that the potion listed in the SRD and PHB is a CL5 potion. The reason they chose to list this is unknown.
nightbanegod 08-14-05, 02:47 PM	umm.... last time i checked... enlarge person is a 1st lvl spell... and quicken spell makes it use up a SPELL SLOT 4 lvls higher... thats a 5th lvl spell slot... now in order for a caster to even be able to prepare that he needs to be a 9th lvl caster.. so you underpaid for the spell... and regardless of wether or not its a quickened spell ... THE ACT OF DRINKING A POTION is still a standard action!!!
NiQil 08-14-05, 02:48 PM	I'd agree there is some sort of fudge factor may be embedded in the cost, but not for this reason. Quicken spells raise the spells level by 4. 5th level spells are illigeal to put in potions. Also, the caster level for quicken enlarge is 9th level. A quickened enlarge would be much more expensive. Personally I think the inconsistent cost is stupid. Actually, that is exactly the reason it is quickened.....because it is a CL 5 potion *only for the purposes of the cost needed to get it. In all other aspects, it is a CL 1 potion. Adding a metamagic feat to a spell does not change it's CL, unless the feat specifically says it does. A level 1 spell cast from memory with quicken is still a level 1 spell...it is just taking up a level 5 slot. The feat does not change it's duration, effect, etc, unless it specifically says it does.
michael_noah 08-14-05, 02:59 PM	Actually, that is exactly the reason it is quickened.....because it is a CL 5 potion *only for the purposes of the cost needed to get it. In all other aspects, it is a CL 1 potion. Adding a metamagic feat to a spell does not change it's CL, unless the feat specifically says it does. A level 1 spell cast from memory with quicken is still a level 1 spell...it is just taking up a level 5 slot. The feat does not change it's duration, effect, etc, unless it specifically says it does. Ok. It is not a CL (caster level) 5 potion because it is quickened (even if it did make sense to quicken potion spells, which it doesn't). It might be a level 5 spell because it is quickened. Adding metamagic feats to spells does require that you have a higher caster level, which is part of what the potion prices are based on. So, even if one argued that the spell was still considered level 1 (I think that the magic item chapter might explain that using metamagicked spells in items increases cost based on their adjusted spell level, but even if not) it would stil require CL 9 to cast it.
Luni 08-14-05, 03:00 PM	Just in case, the DC for my scroll of sleep was 15 (10+1+4 because it was crafted by me) and I'd like to know the answer for the question of invisibility ending in the beginning round or the finishing round. Scrolls DC's are always at mininum caster Level. Even though the scroll was made by you, the DC is still 11. If you want a DC 15 scroll of sleep, you would have to take heighten spell, and make it at Spell Level 3, Caster Level 5.
Faroth 08-14-05, 03:08 PM	Scrolls DC's are always at mininum caster Level. Even though the scroll was made by you, the DC is still 11. If you want a DC 15 scroll of sleep, you would have to take heighten spell, and make it at Spell Level 3, Caster Level 5. And the inteligence? isn't counted? My Int is 19 (+4) It's important for me, I'd be using sleep for a good time. see u
Caterane 08-14-05, 03:25 PM	The whole Merman vs Virgo fight needs to be overhauled. Disabled: As already said, Virgo takes too many actions while disabled. The AoO takes place BEFORE the action occurs so he attempts to draw the stone, AoO, draw stone (move action) -> strenous action. That alone drops Virgo but in the fight he did not fall. Quite the opposite: he was then even able to manifest a power from it! Another strenous action. And AFTER that he even attacked me! One can turn it as he wishes, this is in no way possible while being disabled. Rake in Grapple: Throughout my tactic, I assumed that Merman will be grappling Virgo; I can live with Xanadu deciding that I didn't explicitely express it (although I think if he goes by the very word in my tactic he should do so in Virgo's case too with glaive and trip). But what I clearly intended and based my tactic on is that I get off 5 attacks! This superiority in # of attacks is mentioned in several sections of my tactic. Combined with the above mentioned tactic-focus on grapples and the fact that Merman has the impr.grapple feat and a much higher grapple modifier, Merman should definately initiate a grapple and rake! The 5 attacks were the absolute key in my tactic! I've also written in my tactic that I want to destroy any expandable item he draws so that is directed at the empathic transfer stone. Xanadu can either keep all those rolls, or use new ones, as he wishes. I am only asking for consistency.
NiQil 08-14-05, 03:40 PM	Ok. It is not a CL (caster level) 5 potion because it is quickened (even if it did make sense to quicken potion spells, which it doesn't). It might be a level 5 spell because it is quickened. Adding metamagic feats to spells does require that you have a higher caster level, which is part of what the potion prices are based on. So, even if one argued that the spell was still considered level 1 (I think that the magic item chapter might explain that using metamagicked spells in items increases cost based on their adjusted spell level, but even if not) it would stil require CL 9 to cast it. I fail to see what having to be a CL 9 to cast the spell with the proper feats has to do with this. It could have been created by a CL 20 caster...it doesn't change the fact that it is a CL 1 spell cast with a metamagic feat. Like scrolls, unless specifically stated otherwise, potions are assumed to be cast at the minimum CL for the *spell. If the CL of the person who cast the spell was considered, then no one under 9th level would be able to use the potion of reduce person listed under Level 1 potions. The additional cost is to reflect the fact that a metamagic feat was used in its creation....but metamagic feats do not change the CL of the spell (potion) as far as how the power operates. Otherwise, it would not be a LEVEL 1 potion. It would be a level 5 potion. If you look at the charts in the SRD, although not specifically broken down by CL, they do descend on the chart by CL, going down the chart from CL to Cl 2 and so on. From the SRD under Metamagic Feats: As a spellcaster’s knowledge of magic grows, she can learn to cast spells in ways slightly different from the ways in which the spells were originally designed or learned. Preparing and casting a spell in such a way is harder than normal but, thanks to metamagic feats, at least it is possible. Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up. And.. Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description.
Erithmu 08-14-05, 04:09 PM	my 2 cp on enlarge/reduce person potion: Enlarge person has a casting time of 1 round. the fudge factor is making it usable in a standard action (roughly the equivilent of a quicken effect). The potion is still treated as a CL1 though. @guardianangel: noted and I'll take a look at it. Although I didn't write it in, you used your psionic weapon in round 9 when you missed. That information will be added @Altaris: I understand your concerns, which I addressed to you in the PM. Now: if you are willing to let the fight stand as is, you give up the right to make a fuss about it. So: does the fight stand or would you like me to rerun it? If no then I ask you to remove the comments you made above. I have no problem being diligent as stated in my PM, it has been asked many times (read each time a FotW thread has been posted) to be constructive and not ticked at people. (Uther was also making no intention of hiding his location, so I just had you know that he was near.)
Luni 08-14-05, 05:06 PM	Out of curiosity, why does Enlarge Person having a Casting Time of 1 round matter? I looked up Creating Potions, and no where does it say casting time matters with the potion. Creating Potions The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew. In addition, he needs ingredients. The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the potion—25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster. All ingredients and materials used to brew a potion must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for brewing each potion. (Economies of scale do not apply.) The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions. The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires. If casting the spell would reduce the caster’s XP total, he pays the XP cost upon beginning the brew in addition to the XP cost for making the potion itself. Material components are consumed when he begins working, but a focus is not. (A focus used in brewing a potion can be reused.) The act of brewing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.) Brewing a potion requires one day. So, why can't enlarge person potion in the DMG be as 5th level caster?
NiQil 08-14-05, 05:15 PM	Out of curiosity, why does Enlarge Person having a Casting Time of 1 round matter? I looked up Creating Potions, and no where does it say casting time matters with the potion. So, why can't enlarge person potion in the DMG be as 5th level caster? Because a potion's casting time (in other words, when it takes effect) is the same as that of the spell. In the case of enlarge/reduce person, both spells have a casting time of 1 full round, meaning that a normal potion of either spell would not take effect until just before your turn in initiative the following round. By adding the quickening effect (and thus, increasing its cost), it shortens the casting time to a standard action, making the spells (or potions) effect occur as soon as the spell is cast (or the potion has been drunk). You *can have a CL 5 potion of Enlarge Person (although it might be a custom item, since it is not on the potion list at that CL), and it would have a duration of 5 min as opposed to 1 min, but it would still not take effect until the following round just before you take your next action.
michael_noah 08-14-05, 05:23 PM	I fail to see what having to be a CL 9 to cast the spell with the proper feats has to do with this. because: A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. It could have been created by a CL 20 caster...it doesn't change the fact that it is a CL 1 spell cast with a metamagic feat. you missed what i said. it might in fact be a level 1 spell. I don't think it is. It doesn't matter. It takes a caster with CL 9 to cast it. Like scrolls, unless specifically stated otherwise, potions are assumed to be cast at the minimum CL for the *spell. If the CL of the person who cast the spell was considered, then no one under 9th level would be able to use the potion of reduce person listed under Level 1 potions. The additional cost is to reflect the fact that a metamagic feat was used in its creation....but metamagic feats do not change the CL of the spell (potion) as far as how the power operates. Otherwise, it would not be a LEVEL 1 potion. It would be a level 5 potion. If you look at the charts in the SRD, although not specifically broken down by CL, they do descend on the chart by CL, going down the chart from CL to Cl 2 and so on. Right, the minimum CL to cast a quickened enlarge person is 9. so that is what the CL for the potion would need to be. metamagic feats have nothing to do with caster level at all. The potions in the SRD are in fact not arranged by CL but by level of the spell.
Caterane 08-14-05, 05:43 PM	LOL Here too? I've tried to explain it in the House of Commons.
michael_noah 08-14-05, 05:45 PM	The whole Merman vs Virgo fight needs to be overhauled. Disabled: As already said, Virgo takes too many actions while disabled. The AoO takes place BEFORE the action occurs so he attempts to draw the stone, AoO, draw stone (move action) -> strenous action. That alone drops Virgo but in the fight he did not fall. Quite the opposite: he was then even able to manifest a power from it! Another strenous action. And AFTER that he even attacked me! One can turn it as he wishes, this is in no way possible while being disabled. Rake in Grapple: Throughout my tactic, I assumed that Merman will be grappling Virgo; I can live with Xanadu deciding that I didn't explicitely express it (although I think if he goes by the very word in my tactic he should do so in Virgo's case too with glaive and trip). But what I clearly intended and based my tactic on is that I get off 5 attacks! This superiority in # of attacks is mentioned in several sections of my tactic. Combined with the above mentioned tactic-focus on grapples and the fact that Merman has the impr.grapple feat and a much higher grapple modifier, Merman should definately initiate a grapple and rake! The 5 attacks were the absolute key in my tactic! I've also written in my tactic that I want to destroy any expandable item he draws so that is directed at the empathic transfer stone. Xanadu can either keep all those rolls, or use new ones, as he wishes. I am only asking for consistency. Right about the grapple I think. You probably should have done that based on your tactics. My point stands, though, MerMan needs to be in a grapple (or swimming) to rake. On the other - I finally see what you mean. Disabled people can perform move actions without penalty - drawing a powerstone is a move action (perhaps it should have been harder - if MerMan had been grappling him). He can then perform a standard action, manifesting the power. He does not perform any other actions. He touches as part of the manifesting. After this, he loses a hit point. It just so happens that he gains some too.
Vathelokai 08-14-05, 05:46 PM	Activation: Drinking a potion or applying an oil requires no special skill. The user merely removes the stopper and swallows the potion or smears on the oil. The following rules govern potion and oil use. Drinking a potion or using an oil on an item of gear is a standard action. The potion or oil takes effect immediately. Using a potion or oil provokes attacks of opportunity. A successful attack (including grappling attacks) against the character forces a Concentration check (as for casting a spell). If the character fails this check, she cannot drink the potion. An enemy may direct an attack of opportunity against the potion or oil container rather than against the character. A successful attack of this sort can destroy the container. So quickening a potion would have no effect. The potion would react faster, but it is still a standard action to drink it. I know this dosn't answer the real question of meta-magicing potions. I will look around.
Caterane 08-14-05, 06:08 PM	@Michael: When you're disabled, you can only do a move or a standard action (but not both). He attempted to draw the stone -> AoO, disabled -> he draws the stone (move action). But as I said, that discussion is useless now that Merman will grapple Virgo.
xanadu 08-14-05, 06:14 PM	OK, here is what I propose: Mer-Man is thrown in prison :D for his grapple/rake routine not being clearly deliniated on his sheet and thus confusing the Pitlord and possibily his opponent. I understand this was unintentional, but let's eliminate any possible future confusion. Caterane does not continually use the word "if" when his intention is to grapple in the future. He's normally very clear with his main intentions and I do think because the Mer-Man rake question has been settled, he assumed everyone knew this. We don't! Virgo is a very good grappler himself with a higher check and psionic fist! You need to scream, "Grapple him anyway!" Scream in in German; Ich werde es auffassen (maybe :)) The fight is picked up at the point when Mer-Man makes his first attack; it will be a grapple attempt. It was my mistake to allow him to use rake without grapple. Just so I understand it, Mer-Man has 3 attempts to start the grapple because his bite-bite-attack routine. Also, how does the rest of his full-attack routine work? If the grapple is successful, then Mer-Man gets his 2 rake attacks, I'm pretty sure about that. I'm less sure whther or not any unused claw or bite attacks can be used: E.G. Claw attempt grapple fails. Next claw attempts grapples, succeeds. Can he execute the bite attack at -4? If Virgo gets desperate and has a chance at a lucky scythe crit, he must take it. I am 100% comfortable how I handled Virgo in relation to his tactics in the previous fight and that's not going to change. I will use my own dice rolls for the remainder of the fight. If an especially important roll is called for, I will curse 1990s technology and link it. Both Uther and Caterane agree with this. Caterane should agree to it because if the original fight is kept, I will have Virgo swing his scythe and crit Mer-man if he survives into round #13. This is 100% the correct call for Virgo in that situation and arguably not a deviation at all from his tactics. I will not have gladiators entrusted to me act like automatons (unless of course I pitlord zombies and animated objects ;) ) Uther should agree to this because I am partial that a compromise of some sort is needed to see if he can manifest empathic transfer in round #12. If I allow him to manifest the power (arguably illegally), a concentration check should be called for as his actions in round #12 clearly go beyond what can be done in a disabled state RAW. That's a DC 28 check, good luck making it with a +10 modifier. What do you think about that?
Vathelokai 08-14-05, 06:16 PM	Uther is moving, so probably cannot post until monday.
michael_noah 08-14-05, 06:36 PM	@Michael: When you're disabled, you can only do a move or a standard action (but not both). He attempted to draw the stone -> AoO, disabled -> he draws the stone (move action). But as I said, that discussion is useless now that Merman will grapple Virgo. i'm dumb.
Caterane 08-14-05, 06:58 PM	I just say that the absolute main part of my tactic was to get off 5 attacks while Virgo gets only one. Since this is only doable in grapple, Merman will grapple Virgo the whole melee fight. My tactic is mainly written for grapple situation anyway (sorry if I have not been 1000% clear on that, but it was at least 999%). Since Virgo does not object to a grapple - even states that he wants to stay in grapple - this duel will be a grapple fight. As written in my tactic, any item Virgo draws and uses will be attacked and destroyed. --------- Xanadu, for all of our sake, I won't object to the rerun, even though I think that after being disabled and taken a move action, there is no follow up manifesting. I'll agree with whatever you decide now.
Huan 08-14-05, 08:24 PM	Slight expansion (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6965153) of the Harvester vs Ch'ch'ili fight from last week is here in story form. Sorry it was 3 days later than expected, but oh well (bad timing in RL :rolleyes: ). Even if I get no credits for it, I do not mind, as I enjoyed writing it. :) Feedback is appreciated; feel free to post flames, critiques or comments. I gotta do a little more writing elsewhere here before I'm done for today...
Mind Rogue 08-14-05, 08:41 PM	Wow, a lot has happened in less than 30 hours. @TelinArtho I'm pretty sure those are the Xp values I came up with. As for attacking Kronos instead of Jodan, apparently I made the mistake of assuming you had the chance of hitting your horse unless you joined in the grapple, although now that I look through it, this must be one of those things that I remember from 3.0. Finally, as for the position for being mounted, I'm pretty sure that I started off with it being the SW corner, but I think I might have accidentally switched when Valkin moved into the tighter squares. I should have been a little more clear on this. Also, since I did a little louse-up on the fight, would you like me to rerun it? Also, nice job with the team fight of Zahrat and Goran vs Maylee and Ansom. Perhaps I should have contingencied for Invisibility by summoning a swarm, but this got the job done cheaper (if not exactly quicker).
Caterane 08-14-05, 08:43 PM	Wow the hand of Huan is back!! I haven't read it yet because I'm too tired; I want to enjoy it in full tomorow when I wake up. Thousand thanks in advance, Huan. And don't worry about the credit! :)
TelinArtho 08-14-05, 08:45 PM	I definitely would like the rounds that I attacked Kronos changed -as this is a direct change in my tactics. I realize this makes things complicated, but from my perspective, it was my only chance... and I knew this before the fight... Thanks for the compliments on the other fight - I was really torn on what to do (Summon Swarm, Dispel Magic,something else), but as it turns out it is just a matter of time once Ansom is eliminated. Honestly, I think the reason why Ansom and Maylee failed is because their buffing sequence was so much longer than yours and Goran. /d
Mind Rogue 08-14-05, 08:56 PM	@TelinArtho I'll change it, but not tonight, since I'm rather tired. As for the scrolls, it wouldn't be the first time that I had won with an Entangle/Summon Swarm combo. The Dispel Magic scroll is mostly insurence against people with really long buff sequences.
KerlanRayne 08-14-05, 10:27 PM	OK with all this about the potions and metamagic feats and all, here's how it works. When you use a metamagic feat on a spell, the Spell Level does not change but the spell slot it uses does. Caster Level is set by the caster and has no link to the metamagic feat. When you create a scroll with a metamagic feat, the minimum Caster Level is determined by the Spell Slot used, not the the Spell Level. So a scroll of Maximized Fireball would use a 7th level Spell Slot and have a minimum Caster Level of 13. This would result in max damage for a 10d6 (because of the Caster Level) fireball but it would still have the save DC of 14 (because of the Spell Level). The minimum level you can use a 7th level slot is 13th level, you can't create a Caster Level 5 scroll that uses a 7th level slot. The Potion of Enlarge Person is Caster Level 5 and lasts 5 minutes. All potions take a Standard Action to use. The problem here is that people are confusing Spell Level with Caster Level. The Caster Level is based on the SPell Slot used and has no other connection to any Metamagic feat. KerlanRayne
xanadu 08-14-05, 10:51 PM	Xanadu, for all of our sake, I won't object to the rerun, even though I think that after being disabled and taken a move action, there is no follow up manifesting. I'll agree with whatever you decide now. Ok, I'm glad you agree. I can see where you are coming from and you do have very valid point(s). Still I want this fight decided in the arena and not by my interpretation of a gray area of a situation not clearly explained in the PHB. It was my error to allow Mer-Man to rake while not in grapple and the fight should not have progressed this way. This needs to be corrected. Virgo is a good grappler himself with psionic fist, flurry, and Mer-Man will be taking -4 to his attacks. We'll see how things work out in the arena and not by rules debate...as it should be :)
Begferdeth 08-14-05, 11:48 PM	@ Huan... Wow! Nice story! :D Sorry I didnt give you much to work with for Ch'Ch'Ili storywise, but I honestly have no real idea what Dromites are like. I just have one pic and the stats from the SRD... I would hate to write him like a kender or something, and then find out dromites are totally hive-minded.
Caterane 08-15-05, 03:53 AM	@Huan: WOW! That was a cool story!! Thanks a lot, oh great master bard!!! :cheer: Once the Harvester's fight is up (hint hint) I'll add that story to the background. @Beg: It is completely up to you how you play him. It is your character and no matter what the books say, there are always exceptions. @Xanadu: Fair enough.
Vathelokai 08-15-05, 05:22 AM	The fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6968535&postcount=233) is up. Tell me if I missed anything major. I added a few maps to illustrate the obscuring mist. I'm not sure I did all the concealment right.
michael_noah 08-15-05, 08:59 AM	I think that looking again at Cat's tactics, it was definitive (though not clear) that he wanted MerMan to grapple, so a rerun in that light seems like a good idea. It's unfortunate that so many of the rules are unclear in situations like this. I don't think that the disabled rules are terribly unclear - Cat is completely right about them. There is no way that Virgo can manifest after drawing the stone if he is disabled - he is limited to one action. What are unclear, or perhaps clearly wrong, are the AoO rules and the order of completion of actions. If MerMan takes an AoO against Virgo for drawing the stone, and it disables Virgo, Virgo probably doesn't want to draw the stone anymore. Does he have to? If the AoO happens first, why can't he change his mind? If he doesn't have to, what happens? If he doesn't draw it, how did MerMan get an AoO? I still think that out of all this, the biggest thing we could get would be to see a very strong advisement to not pre-roll things. Also, we know that MerMan really likes grappling. I also think that Xanadu is to be commended, because he did a great job, I believe, of adapting some tactics in a way that made senes, and did not show a bias toward one gladiator or another. It would be great if more pitlords would do that.
Altaris13 08-15-05, 10:07 AM	@Altaris: I understand your concerns, which I addressed to you in the PM. Now: if you are willing to let the fight stand as is, you give up the right to make a fuss about it. So: does the fight stand or would you like me to rerun it? If no then I ask you to remove the comments you made above. I have no problem being diligent as stated in my PM, it has been asked many times (read each time a FotW thread has been posted) to be constructive and not ticked at people. (Uther was also making no intention of hiding his location, so I just had you know that he was near.) Give up the right to make a fuss? I don't think so. You ask me to remove the comments above? I am sorry, but I am not going to do that. I meant what I said, and I will not just roll over and "hush up." Why am I letting the fight stand if I have a problem with it? Because the outcome won't change and because I will just waste more money on a fight I already lost. If you had run the fight correctly, then the chances of a one-shot kill that early would have been slim (IMO.) I should have been able to snipe at him from a good range for several rounds, enough that I could have taken him out at close range. Again, in my opinion. But since you've already ran the fight and the rolls stand as is, it won't matter. As soon as he locates me, the fight is over. In other words, there is no chance of changing the outcome. So why bother? Why waste the resources? I have every right to be angry over this. If you think I am being rude, then perhaps you should step back and look at this as if it was YOUR character. Actually pause to consider things from my perspective instead of being defensive. Your comments throughout the fight make it obvious that you had no desire to run it. It is obvious you wanted to get it done and over with ASAP and with as little effort on your part as possible. Frankly, I believe you owe me an apology. Asking me to remove my comments is an insult that basically says "your opinion doesn't matter here, so sit down & shut up." I won't stand quiet while I am disrespected in this manner. And so you know, I am trying to be constructive despite being upset. I /could/ be rude and obnoxious, but that serves nothing.
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 10:10 AM	The fight between Juntar and Lothan is up Here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6962853&postcount=231) Story included, and one question. Does invisibility break at the start of the casting of sleep, or when the spell actually finishes? Thanks! I think this got lost in the shuffle. Since I had this come up in one of my fights last week or the week before, here's how I explained it. Invisibility breaks when you cast an attack spell. Sleep has a target and while not entirely offensive still qualifies as an "attack" - so it breaks the invisibility. The question is when? Well, to me, since you don't specify the target until the casting is complete (and its necessary to have it worded that way, because targets could get out of the range of the spell while it is being cast), so the invisibility doesn't break until the target is specified. That being said - it is by no means an official ruling. Just what I used in my fight, and the gladiators in that match didn't seem to have a problem with it. /d
Altaris13 08-15-05, 10:21 AM	@Xan: I apologize if my comments about prerolling came off rather harsh, that was definately not my intention. As I'm sure you already figured, at the time of posting I was very upset over something else. @Maraxus: I'm pretty sure you knew that wasn't at you too. I agreed with your quote, after all. ;)
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 11:11 AM	Because some incensed words have been flying, I think it is best to have a third party take a look at the Mini vs Avatar fight. Since it is my idea, I already have (please, if others feel the inclination, do your own validation): 1. According to Mini's tactics, Mini will climb, then buff, then start attacking. If his tactics break down (if he is attacked during the buff sequence? kind of amibugous, but I could see it), start attacking. 2. According to Avatar's tactics, look out for Mini. Okay - with that as a starting point, not all of the locations are listed (Erithmu - this is essential in fights), but from what we've got after round 1: Avatar is at (-3,-11) and Mini is at (-4,22). In round 2, you give Avatar a reactive listen to Mini's actions. He did something - but that something is not casting, so the DC should be 1d20+5. You'll use the same listen check (16+7-6 (distance)=17), so there's a good chance that Avatar will still hear a general location. That being said, you don't say to where Avatar moves. If he takes 60ft of movement to the general area of where he would hear the noise, he would need to make a spot check - which is a move-equivalent action. Since Mini hasn't done anything during his move and Mini is within 2 feet (1ft/rank) of his hiding area, he does not get an auto-spot. Frankly, I don't know what Mini's action would be once Avatar came into LOS. He can't load a crossbow (requires 2 hands), although if it was already loaded he could fire one shot (at -2). He could draw a stone and manifest from it, but now we need to know exactly where Avatar is. If he's at (-2,-23), Mini is too far away to use the mind thrust. He'd have to be at most 10 feet up to use it. If Avatar is right next to the column at (-3,-21), then he'd be close enough to use a mind thrust. What remains is that the most Mini could do is 2d10 damage with a Mind Thrust if Avatar is at (-3,-21) or something similar. If he is beyond that, without moving first, Mini would not be close enough. In any case, it is clear to me that a round 3 would have ensued. Take these comments as an impartial reader to the fight. I have no vested interest in seeing either character win, but I have an interest in keeping CoCo a fun environment. With the words traded, it seemed that this second point was missed.
SoulLord 08-15-05, 11:17 AM	The fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6968535&postcount=233) is up. Tell me if I missed anything major. I added a few maps to illustrate the obscuring mist. I'm not sure I did all the concealment right. Can the elders clarify on the psionic magic transparency before I made heindal I was told there was full magic psionic transparency and thus UMD = UPD Also you can take 10 addressing scrolls. Also on round 7 we should have an invisible heindal (nothing he did before that breaks invisibility) outside the mist (so no concealment penatly) firing a scorching ray at his foe adding SA damage(+2d6) and then now that invisibility was broken return to the obscuring mist breaking los. but oh well I knew it was a tough fight from the start. congrats to my opponent no rerun nesesary.
xanadu 08-15-05, 11:25 AM	May one fight defensively while in a grapple? A grapple check isn't an attack roll so in theory they could raise their AC by 2 without ill effect. Another question. May one grapple while prone without penalties to their grapple check?
King Uther 08-15-05, 11:26 AM	Now for the fun part. I think Cat is wrong about the grapple, as explicitly stated in his tactics. Take note of the bolded section, where it states when he rages/frenzies, he then states to 2xclaw, bite, 2xrake. He does not use the word grapple. Nor does he allude to mainly grappling. He states that IF he is in a grapple, he will do said action. I'm sorry Cat, if I was your Pitlord I wouldn't have thought grapple was your main objective, and as such I don't approve of it. Also, I am not diabled, because you can't fly into a frenzy unless you are damaged. Rage, yes. Frenzy, no. Says it right in the sahuagin description. Why do you think I wrote tactics to trip/sunder you? I won this fight. Sure, by luck because I didn't expect you to try to stand toe-to-toe, but I did win. Also, I would get 2 attacks per round in a grapple, silly. Flurry rocks out. Fight Set-up: Enter with potion of invisibility and stone of force screen Main Tactic: (1) Buff with Invisibility, Force screen+4, Vigor+20, def.precog+2, PfE+2, Expansion, total defense (Ac34) and await attack. Draw dispel stone. (2) Shout so that he knows where I am (I cannot fly/see invisible so I cannot delay). He needs to attack me first. 50% miss chance! (3) When he attacks, it depends on what his attack did and how he is buffed: - If my vigor is used up by that attack and I am not grappled, move away (still invisible) and remanifest vigor. - If he missed or I am not grappled, run away (still invisible) and manifest dispel psionics+8 on him. [I assume 'run' is flavor text as (1) you can't run and dispel on same round and (2) pro evil is short round buff (3) there is no need to wait anything out (cf. greater amorpha condition)] - If he has greater concealing amorphea running, run away (160ft) and wait it out (5 rounds), then dispel+8 him. - If he grappled me, manifest dispel psionics+8 on him and use focus to take15 on concentration check (autosuccess). Repeat if I failed to activate dispel. (4) After dispel hits, rage/frenzy with 2xClaw, Bite, 2xRake. If I am in grapple, use 'attack an opponoment' to attack with all 5 natural weapons (albeit at -4) vs his Ac. I also get 18 bonus hitpoints. [Hmm. Techincally you can only rake in the water. Since the arena is considered a favorable environment and rake is probably one of the reasons you selected a Sahuagin, I don't have a problem with the rake attacks. I would guess/suggest if there is ever a similar grey area regarding one of Mer-Man's opponents, then they should also be given the benefit of the doubt.] Modifications: - If he draws a stone, he needs to make a grapple check first (standard action) so he cannot manifest it that round -> attack that item on my turn until destroyed. - If hp go below 40, remanifest vigor (from mind if in grapple; exp.focus if available). - Use empty mind on will save. Important Notes: I'm never flatfooted! My dispel psionic stones are augmented -> +8 on dispel check. My grapple check w/ rage/frenzy is +23 to resist his grapples. When I grapple, however, I will use the 'attack grapple' at -4 but vs his Ac so I can use all my 5 natural weapons in a round while he can only grapple once a round. Let's see what kind of response this provokes.
King Uther 08-15-05, 11:28 AM	I probably won't be back to comment for a little while. I'll be logged on, but I'll be setting up some stuff in my house. Just so you know.
Cerebus13 08-15-05, 11:28 AM	Can the elders clarify on the psionic magic transparency before I made heindal I was told there was full magic psionic transparency and thus UMD = UPD Also you can take 10 addressing scrolls.Caterane had expressed some changes needed for the UMD = UPD skill transparency, so I would ask him personally how it works currently. For a time the Elders had ruled that the skills were basically the same, but that may change. Do you mean addressing stones? You can take 20 on that check because there are no conseqences for failing such an action.
Cerebus13 08-15-05, 11:31 AM	May one fight defensively while in a grapple? A grapple check isn't an attack roll so in theory they could raise their AC by 2 without ill effect. Another question. May one grapple while prone without penalties to their grapple check?Both of these questions can possibly be answered by this:Grapple Checks Repeatedly in a grapple, you need to make opposed grapple checks against an opponent. A grapple check is like a melee attack roll. Your attack bonus on a grapple check is: Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifierBecause grapple checks rely on your base attack bonus any modifiers to this bonus (such as being prone, fighting defensively, etc..) should in turn also affect your grapple check. Otherwise you could always fight defensively in a grapple with no ill effects.
GuardianAngel 08-15-05, 11:32 AM	my 2 cp on enlarge/reduce person potion: Enlarge person has a casting time of 1 round. the fudge factor is making it usable in a standard action (roughly the equivilent of a quicken effect). The potion is still treated as a CL1 though. @guardianangel: noted and I'll take a look at it. Although I didn't write it in, you used your psionic weapon in round 9 when you missed. That information will be added @Altaris: I understand your concerns, which I addressed to you in the PM. Now: if you are willing to let the fight stand as is, you give up the right to make a fuss about it. So: does the fight stand or would you like me to rerun it? If no then I ask you to remove the comments you made above. I have no problem being diligent as stated in my PM, it has been asked many times (read each time a FotW thread has been posted) to be constructive and not ticked at people. (Uther was also making no intention of hiding his location, so I just had you know that he was near.) Ok I am just trying to figure out why my character (which was geared towards throwing weapons, and has a str of 12) is trying to melee. Also under my tatics I stated I wanted to wait out 6 rounds while I had cover and was kneeling. That way I didn't get peppered. Not only did he not notice me until for some reason my person turned the coner, I got hit by turning the corner. Why would I turn the coner to get shot at? I said I wanted to keep cover up and kneel for 6 rounds. This tatic was crucial with the force screen up (and skate but didn't care to much about that) I had no chance on hitting him. Also in round 8 when I got hit and my hp went to 11 I did nothing but move it looks like? I thought if i Dropped below 13 hp to heal myself? I would like this battle to get rerun, I don't care if you use the same rolls or new ones, I would also like a position number at the end of each round becuase you constinly say he moves and I move but I have no point of refernce to see were we are at.
NiQil 08-15-05, 11:37 AM	Caterane had expressed some changes needed for the UMD = UPD skill transparency, so I would ask him personally how it works currently. For a time the Elders had ruled that the skills were basically the same, but that may change. Do you mean addressing stones? You can take 20 on that check because there are no conseqences for failing such an action. Cat has changed the ruling.....UMD and UPD are no longer transparent. In order to use both types of objects, you would need to invest points in both skills. When using UMD in regard to scrolls, I believe they require a DC 20 check to preread the scroll so you don't flub it in battle. For addressing powerstones, a UPD check is required for the same reason at a DC 15. Basically to do either, you must not have a negative modifier to be able to succeed, since they are assumed to have been done before the battle as long as you do not have a negative modifier to whichever skill you are using. You are correct in that UMD and UPD, by the RAW, *are transparent. Cat's ruling changed that for CoCo.
NiQil 08-15-05, 11:44 AM	Just venting here....just a little frustrated that it is already Monday, and the two battles I am involved in that are already posted are now awaiting revisions, and two other battles I am involved in have yet to be posted. Q)($&*@$!()!@#)(!&$(!@*)!@$%*!@)!@) %4 Ok...no offense directed or meant to anyone....just venting. Would really like to update some characters and buy some things...but still flying in a holding pattern. To quote Roundup Woody..."That's not flying! That's falling, with style!"
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 11:45 AM	Here's the post where Cat introduces the separation of UMD and UPD: Cat's post (pg 49 of Tavern) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6888076) The posts following it show the progression of the decision. /d
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 11:48 AM	@NiQil - this is why I keep an offline version of each of my characters that I update before it gets posted. If a fight comes in at the Nth hour, I'm able to update very quickly according to the changes I've made locally. Also, since I make the changes offline, I can make them according to the initial result or what I perceive as the likely end result after all the problems have been resolved.
NiQil 08-15-05, 11:50 AM	@NiQil - this is why I keep an offline version of each of my characters that I update before it gets posted. If a fight comes in at the Nth hour, I'm able to update very quickly according to the changes I've made locally. Also, since I make the changes offline, I can make them according to the initial result or what I perceive as the likely end result after all the problems have been resolved. That's not a bad idea....I never thought of that. What program do you use for them?
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 11:53 AM	I just use a text editor (TextPad to be precise), this way I can easily fix the formatting tags and such. It takes a little getting used to reading the format of the character with all of the tags included, but it also makes changing the sheet very easy. /d
Caterane 08-15-05, 12:05 PM	@Uther: Several people already agreed that the focus of my tactic was on grapples, and what is undeniably true is that the key of my tactic was to get off 5 attacks - which is only possible in a grapple either as we've found out after the fight. Now you base your defense on one single word "IF", ignoring the intend of my tactic (5 attacks) when Xanadu had adapted your tactic more than once by saying he did not go by the very word of your tactic - which was in your favor, no questions asked. If that is how it should be then we will also go by the very word of your tactic which was tripping with the scythe, then changing to glaive, and using cure moderate potions when your hitpoints run low. I've brought up these points earlier, insisting on the pitlord sticking to what you wrote in your tactic, but Xanadu convinced me that he prefers to use common sense instead of rigid tactic-reading where single words count more than what is good for the character.
Luni 08-15-05, 12:05 PM	I just use Notepad! :D @Caterane and TCB: The fight between Corkus and The harvester should be up later tonight.
Pitlords 08-15-05, 12:18 PM	Can anyone take over the fight: Zubair Suhaim (KerlanRayne) vs Baelin the Shadow (Malither76): Kaigan @Sindorin's Campaign Guys: Since Sindorin has left for the time being, all characters from his campaign are considered free again and may participate in any event again.
SoulLord 08-15-05, 12:19 PM	Here's the post where Cat introduces the separation of UMD and UPD: Cat's post (pg 49 of Tavern) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6888076) The posts following it show the progression of the decision. /d Yikes thar really hoses Heindal. well it was fun while it lasted since the changes to the ruling really affect this character can I retire him and "get a refund" = start another lvl 4 character without paying the credits. ??
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 12:21 PM	@Pitlords - I can take the fight.
Pitlords 08-15-05, 12:22 PM	Yikes thar really hoses Heindal. well it was fun while it lasted since the changes to the ruling really affect this character can I retire him and "get a refund" = start another lvl 4 character without paying the credits. ?? Ok. Also: Telin+1°, Kaigan-1°
NiQil 08-15-05, 12:24 PM	Ick....if one of Kaigan's fights is getting reassigned....I wonder if the big FFA will as well....I pity whoever volunteers to take *that one on short notice LOL (if it happens, of course).
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 12:29 PM	@Pitlords - tactics received. I will have the fight up later today assuming I get the time.
SoulLord 08-15-05, 12:37 PM	quick question (I hope) A casts hold person at B B fails it's will save and also fails to identify the spell. can B as a full round action try to break from the hold person even though he does not know he is affected by it?
NiQil 08-15-05, 12:40 PM	quick question (I hope) A casts hold person at B B fails it's will save and also fails to identify the spell. can B as a full round action try to break from the hold person even though he does not know he is affected by it? To my knowledge, yes, because I don't believe the Hold Person spell description requires the person being held to know what the spell is to try and break free. Hold Person is a Mind-Affecting spell, so in essence you are using the will of your mind to break the compulsion put there by the spell. You would not need to know *what put it there, or *how it got there, just that it *is there and you don't want it to be.
Pitlords 08-15-05, 12:42 PM	quick question (I hope) A casts hold person at B B fails it's will save and also fails to identify the spell. can B as a full round action try to break from the hold person even though he does not know he is affected by it? There is no need to identify the spell to break free.
xanadu 08-15-05, 12:44 PM	Uther, you are correct about the frenzy in that he cannot activate it until he is damaged. So in the oringinal fight you aren't disabled. But... Let me ask you a question and answer it honestly. Let us suppose that Mer-Man didn't get so damn unlucky in the round before and dropped Virgo. Would you not complain, rightly, that I illegally allowed Mer-Man to get off 5 melee attacks without even grappling and suffering the -4 penalty? I know I would! So you (and everyone) else would scream at me to redo the fight. And you would be right to do so. Are redos only acceptable when people lose? Uther, believe me here, I am not caving into pressure. This fight has been up since saturday and I refused to do anything despite some very compelling arguments before you had a chance to speak. I feel bad because this was my mistake. It was an honest one because one of my gladiators fought Mer-Man before the rake/grapple question was settled (Mer-Man was allowed to rake in the arena then) and because Virgo is a good grappler I took the "ifs" literally in his tactics [though I do agree 100% that 5 attacks per round was undenaiably his main tactic]. I would prefer that King Uther and Caterane come to some sort of mutual agreement as to what to do rather than argue back and forth.
King Uther 08-15-05, 01:03 PM	I'm PMing Cat about it. This is my suggestion. I'm sure someone will disagree. Since we are not going with a literal reading of tactics but an intended meaning, I will be willing to let Cat have his grapple method if on my side it can be argued I was assuming to be buffed, and threfore wouldn't try to grapple a buffed Mer-Man naked. What I am saying is that if Mer-Man can kill me before I escape and critical for the win, then good job. But the first actual attack roll I make with my scythe wins it. I may ammend this statement based on what Cat says.
xanadu 08-15-05, 01:11 PM	Uther, as long as both you and Cat agree to a particular course of action I don't care I will follow it. All I ask is that you both accept the consequences and congradulate the victor.
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 01:15 PM	Wow - this went quicker than I thought it should've... Zubair Suhaim vs Baelin "Called the Shadow" (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6971034) -- EDIT - Nope - screwed up Baelin's AC in round 2 - in the process of continuing fight... -- EDIT 2 - Fight is complete now.
Gonbow 08-15-05, 01:29 PM	Also, I would get 2 attacks per round in a grapple, silly. Flurry rocks out. No, you wouldn't. You cant Flurry of Blows while in a grapple, because Flurry of Blows requires the Full Attack action, which you cannot perform while grappled. In the same vein, Merman only gets one of his normal natural attacks + 2 rakes while grappling, because the number of attacks you have in a grapple is determined ONLY by your base attack bonus, plus special. Rake is special, normal natural weapons are not. On a unrelated note, Dagnal vrs Horseman vrs Alac is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6971074&postcount=235).
Caterane 08-15-05, 01:34 PM	This is my suggestion. I'm sure someone will disagree. Since we are not going with a literal reading of tactics but an intended meaning, I will be willing to let Cat have his grapple method if on my side it can be argued I was assuming to be buffed, and threfore wouldn't try to grapple a buffed Mer-Man naked. What I am saying is that if Mer-Man can kill me before I escape and critical for the win, then good job. But the first actual attack roll I make with my scythe wins it. I may ammend this statement based on what Cat says. Uther, please, that's metagaming what you do. Let me tell you why: You want to escape a grapple to buff, then attack with the scythe. This is most illogical! (1) First of all, I am not sure with what you want to buff with. You have no expansion left, no animal affinity, no fly to escape. No alternate buffs are specified in your tactics. (2) If you escape you can easily be regrappled before you can escape (no tumble) which incurs AoOs from Merman which will regrapple you most likely. (3) Even then, Merman is twice as fast (40 vs 20) so he would get you half a round later anyway (and attack you while you buff??) (4) And of course there's no way to improve your grapple skills anyway, nor will you have time to buff before he gets you anew. (5) Then, additionally, Merman can just redispel it. (6) Besides, if Virgo anyhow escapes - which is nigh impossible and only by suffering heavy damage without doing damage on your own just to be regrappled either on the AoO, or at least half a round later before you can buff by Merman's superior speed - then Virgo can also use a free action while moving to draw the glaive as specified in your tactic. (7) Additionally, keeping the scythe is also not logical because you have no reach and would suffer AoO's from Merman so there's no reason to ignore your tactic and keep the scythe. (8) And finally, since you want to escape and not damage Merman, he is still at full health so the scythe crit is not enough to kill him in one swing. (9) You covered a debuff in your tactic so it's not that this is a situation that came as a surprise. (10) And to all these many illogical actions you request comes the fact that you wanted to stay in grapple. Really everything speaks against this course of action, except the metagame knowledge that the next scythe 20 kills Merman :/
Cerebus13 08-15-05, 01:41 PM	@Sindorin's Campaign Guys: Since Sindorin has left for the time being, all characters from his campaign are considered free again and may participate in any event again. So if the campaign is being dissolved can we be refunded at least some of the credits paid? I paid for myself and Salzorin's character and we ended up only being able to get to one encounter where we had a victorious result...and 10 credits seems a little steep for that.
NiQil 08-15-05, 01:45 PM	No, you wouldn't. You cant Flurry of Blows while in a grapple, because Flurry of Blows requires the Full Attack action, which you cannot perform while grappled. In the same vein, Merman only gets one of his normal natural attacks + 2 rakes while grappling, because the number of attacks you have in a grapple is determined ONLY by your base attack bonus, plus special. Rake is special, normal natural weapons are not. On a unrelated note, Dagnal vrs Horseman vrs Alac is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6971074&postcount=235). I could be mistaken, as I do not have access to the FAQ at the moment, but I want to say in the FAQ on the WotC site, they clarified that you *can flurry in a grapple. Or it may have been in an errata. Someone else would need to verify this, as I do not have a way to access either of those right now.
King Uther 08-15-05, 01:54 PM	My tactic was never to grapple. But I did say to oppose grapple if you decided to grapple. If your main tactic was to grapple and mine was not, how is it fair for you to say I have to be stuck to my contingency tactic while you get the privelege of using your main tactic. Virgo is not a moron. He knows better than to grapple a large, buffed sahuagin. And 86 would not drop you, but it would take you to 2 health because you aren't frenzied. Tell me an empathic transfer won't kill you. If I am being totally unfair, someone call me on it. Maybe I am being too biased here. But I won a fight, a beautiful fight at that, and now because Cat wasn't specific enough in his tactics it will be re-run. I don't mind the re-run if it is totally fair. But I get the feeling it won't be. Xanadu, you rock my socks off. Sorry this fight is getting complicated. Well, let's get on with it. Run the fight....
Gonbow 08-15-05, 01:55 PM	I could be mistaken, as I do not have access to the FAQ at the moment, but I want to say in the FAQ on the WotC site, they clarified that you *can flurry in a grapple. Or it may have been in an errata. Someone else would need to verify this, as I do not have a way to access either of those right now. Alright, I just checked out the 3.5 main D&D FAQ and PHB errata; I didn't see anything about flurry of blows in grappling, though it does have some interesting notes on grappling (You can move someone around fairly easily while you have them grappled, for instance), but nothing to support this. If someone else finds something, please quote/pinpoint the source so this can be cleared up. And finally, what does the random *'s in your posts mean NiQil? I'm terribly curious. :cool:
Luni 08-15-05, 01:55 PM	The Harvester vs Corkus is here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6971432&postcount=236)
NiQil 08-15-05, 02:05 PM	Alright, I just checked out the 3.5 main D&D FAQ and PHB errata; I didn't see anything about flurry of blows in grappling, though it does have some interesting notes on grappling (You can move someone around fairly easily while you have them grappled, for instance), but nothing to support this. If someone else finds something, please quote/pinpoint the source so this can be cleared up. And finally, what does the random *'s in your posts mean NiQil? I'm terribly curious. :cool: They are just another way of adding emphasis to a word, rather than bolding it in all the time. Bolding, to me, can sometimes come across as rude for some reason. Maybe it's just me <shrug>
Mind Rogue 08-15-05, 02:08 PM	You could always try italics. That can be handy for emphasis as well. On an unrelated note, I'll start revising the team fight in a couple minutes. Hopefully I'll have it done within the hour.
NiQil 08-15-05, 02:36 PM	You could always try italics. That can be handy for emphasis as well. On an unrelated note, I'll start revising the team fight in a couple minutes. Hopefully I'll have it done within the hour. :pint: Here's hoping I don't lose my third fight in a row due to revisions LOL
GuardianAngel 08-15-05, 02:46 PM	Gang Lion (Sloisel) vs Mythos (Maraxus) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6971928&postcount=237) Is up. Tell me if I did anything wrong please. Some People just don't know how to die. :P
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 02:54 PM	Just happened to be reading that just now... @Guardian - in round 3 when Maraxus gets a critical - he's using a bow so the damage is x3, not x2. Minimum damage with the damage already rolled is 15 ((1)+3+(5)+3+(1d8)+3=14+1d8). Gang Lion only has 16hp... The fight could be over right there.
GuardianAngel 08-15-05, 02:58 PM	Oh wow forgot that the longbow crit is x3 :smacks head: :confused: Will change that drasticly. Edit: Changed it: Note that this changed the winner of the battle.
Altaris13 08-15-05, 03:09 PM	:patiently waits for Angel to post his buttkicking by the Hound Archon: :D
Mind Rogue 08-15-05, 03:14 PM	I've revised the fight, and I don't hink you're going to like it NiQil. Just remember that you won because of a revision, and another one cost it again. Better luck next time. And if you think you should have healed again in the last round, it wouldn't have mattered, because I would have just taken one from later in the fight, which doesn't amount to 8 hp.
Maraxus 08-15-05, 03:18 PM	TelinArtho: Hey, I wanted to say that. :) Was a great fight like that. 44 Damage on Gang lions 19 Hit points, and than this round 11, where we both are at 1 point and I blast both shots into this cheep 20% miss chance. Funny ... but irrelevant. And I wanted to poison my arrows not before the end of the fight - but I don't mind since the ... 0.4375% chance did not knock me out :) About the refight from the end: I know I should be happy it ended like that, but my tactics clearly sais If I drop my enemy below 0hp, I poison 2 of my arrows with drow poison (I was told that they are not poisoned). Ah, And now I see, why you have made me use the poison in the first versin, you thought I meant "below or equal" I should have explaint that I meant "real below (-1 or less)", because I did want it for further fights - using drow poison vs. a fort save of +4 looks like a bad chance for me. ;)
GuardianAngel 08-15-05, 03:20 PM	yeah I swear I was rolling the dice it was coming up to such a LOOOOONG battle. But then if fittied with all the tatics revisions :P
NiQil 08-15-05, 03:33 PM	I've revised the fight, and I don't hink you're going to like it NiQil. Just remember that you won because of a revision, and another one cost it again. Better luck next time. And if you think you should have healed again in the last round, it wouldn't have mattered, because I would have just taken one from later in the fight, which doesn't amount to 8 hp. No, actually I am wondering why I attempted to attack Valkin in round 7 when Joden was down, since, in my tactics, we both put to cure each other as needed. If I could not reach him to heal him, then why did I not then follow the tactic I wrote for when he died, that would cause me to take a double move action to withdraw? These tactics should be followed as well, since this second revision is because of unapplied tactics. So either, A) I heal Joden, or if I am not able to, then B, I take a double move action to withdraw to range and begin peppering targets with arrows. Both of these were spelled out in tactics. Withdrawing would also allow me finally activate my force screen if I was able to stay at range, since this was never done.
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 03:34 PM	@Mind Rogue - thanks for fixing the tactics according to the way I spelled them out. Just one more thing (and its just a typo): In round 5, I hit Jodan with a 16 vs Jodan's AC of 15. However, you have it listed as a hit with a 16 vs Jodan's AC of 17. Since Jodan is grappling, it is 15, so its just a typo. Thanks again /d
GuardianAngel 08-15-05, 03:40 PM	Question how do I give equipment to a monster for a battle? How much gp value do I give? Any item allowed by the CoCo rules? Does the PC get all the equipment afterwards? Does this equal his +900gp if he wins? If he dies does tha mean he dies permently? Just some questions before hand I had makeing up the Hound Archon right now.
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 03:49 PM	NiQil - you are in melee with Valkin (mounted) and Victor is attacking you as well. Jodan is down in round 5, after your action. In round 6, at 0 hp, you take a standard action to heal (-1 from being disabled, +3 from the spell). In round 7, at 2hp, what are you supposed to do? Here's the tactics you are citing: I have a cure wand....so use it as needed. If things blow up for me, and Joden dies before anyone else, retreat to range and attack with my bow from cover to avoid flanking and charges. Since Jodan died first, it sounds reasonable to me that you would run according to tactics. Or you could heal. If you are going to put priority on healing someone else - I think that should probably be explicitly spelled out in tactics (Opinion). All you say is to use it as needed - you have 2hp - that sounds like you might need it for yourself...
NiQil 08-15-05, 03:53 PM	NiQil - you are in melee with Valkin (mounted) and Victor is attacking you as well. Jodan is down in round 5, after your action. In round 6, at 0 hp, you take a standard action to heal (-1 from being disabled, +3 from the spell). In round 7, at 2hp, what are you supposed to do? Here's the tactics you are citing: Since Jodan died first, it sounds reasonable to me that you would run according to tactics. Or you could heal. If you are going to put priority on healing someone else - I think that should probably be explicitly spelled out in tactics (Opinion). All you say is to use it as needed - you have 2hp - that sounds like you might need it for yourself... I'm not putting priority on either of them....I am asking why one or the other was not done at all. But you are correct in that, per my tactics, withdrawing should have taken place, rather than healing, since I did not say that healing Joden was a priority if he dies first. I stated that if he died first (which he did) to withdraw to range. I have no problem with that tactic being applied....that is why I put it there. I just want the same courtesy to my tactics that you received to yours.
Maraxus 08-15-05, 03:58 PM	GuardianAngel: As I see it, monsters only have the listed equipment (If you also give them stuff, they would be far above their CR). Also above I had another little request about the last fight.
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 04:00 PM	That's fine. So let's say you withdraw 60ft (full round action, no AoO). Valkin moves on Foreman at 60ft and strikes you (fairly likely with my +6 to attack and your 13 AC). Even if I miss though, you either have to withdraw again (another 60ft, which I can close), or heal (1d8+1 points) or stand and fight. And this doesn't even cover the actions that Victor could take. I think Mind Rogue went the "easy" route trying to take out Valkin while Shilelah was still in effect and no longer under the effects of the pain effect. While not entirely correct, it didn't change the inevitable.
Altaris13 08-15-05, 04:01 PM	Question how do I give equipment to a monster for a battle? How much gp value do I give? Any item allowed by the CoCo rules? Does the PC get all the equipment afterwards? Does this equal his +900gp if he wins? If he dies does tha mean he dies permently? Just some questions before hand I had makeing up the Hound Archon right now. Does the PC get all the equipment afterwards? Please? :D But no, I don't think I do. I believe you equip the monster as an NPC = to their CR. Also, you get to post it for me to see. (Not that it makes any difference, so don't worry about.)
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 04:03 PM	Monsters start with equipment according to an NPC of their CR. So, in the case of the Hound Archon (CR4), he gets the treasure of a 4th lvl NPC (3300gp I believe). However, under the treasure line of the Hound Archon, it states the following: No gold, double goods, standard. I'm not sure how to handle this - so Pitlords/Cat will have to answer. I would think that it would just have to spend the 3300gp - but it would be nice to know. /d
NiQil 08-15-05, 04:08 PM	That's fine. So let's say you withdraw 60ft (full round action, no AoO). Valkin moves on Foreman at 60ft and strikes you (fairly likely with my +6 to attack and your 13 AC). Even if I miss though, you either have to withdraw again (another 60ft, which I can close), or heal (1d8+1 points) or stand and fight. And this doesn't even cover the actions that Victor could take. I think Mind Rogue went the "easy" route trying to take out Valkin while Shilelah was still in effect and no longer under the effects of the pain effect. While not entirely correct, it didn't change the inevitable. Actually, at that point, my skate tattoo is active, which would allow me to withdraw 90 feet, and my AC is 17, not 13. So, since Foreman's move action counts as yours, the best you could do is double move as well. Whether that happens or not is up to the Pitlord. But I am quickly getting the feeling that another revision is not going to happen, so I will just leave it be and save everyone the hassle. I'll keep my real feelings on the subject to myself.
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 04:17 PM	I missed the skate - but regardless, with a double move, Foreman is covering 120ft, far greater than 90ft that you can do. Also, skate is only lasting 4 rounds from the last round covered. I know you still have reservations, and if it will make you feel better about it, I would be happy to support another revision of the fight.
Mind Rogue 08-15-05, 04:19 PM	Okay, I've fixed the incorrect AC value (which is actually 12 because Jodan is denied his Dex while grappling). I've also changed the fight to reflect NiQil's tactics. I'm afraid you have to heal yourself first, otherwise withdrawing would have killed you (or provoked an AoO), and trying to heal Jodan is a great way to get yourself killed. Sadly, trying to outrun a trained warhorse just isn't possible, even if it does have to squeeze through some spots. EDIT: I forgot about Skate. Even with it, though, Foreman still catches Kronos, but bearly (based on my worst-case calculations on movement sapped from corners). Since Valkin still gets to take an attack at the end of it, the match is over then and there.
Vathelokai 08-15-05, 04:46 PM	Okay, the team match, Valkin and Victor vs Kronos and Jodan is up. It was a close match, so everyone should come and see it. Now, I want to check that I did the Xp/Gp correctly, since Valkin had a mount with him. A question about the xp and gp. I thought that both xp and gp were capped. Is it only the gp? There may be someone I owe some xp to from a fight I had a few weeks ago.
nightbanegod 08-15-05, 05:07 PM	I OBJECT with round 9 in the horseman FFA... why do i back away and take an AoO when is interesting as my tactics are, they do clearly say dagnal TAKES PRIORITY ... and if hes based me already and we are going toe to toe... and the rules of a FFA DO NOT SAY that i have to kill alac before killing dagnal... it just says hes my target and thats what i would get winners share...... War knows who the real threat is... and its in his face and trading blows... Dagnal had already disarmed my lance which would not go over well since i planned on charging both of them with lance for one hit kills i dont see the justification for moving away from dagnal... taking an AoO because he is large and then just futilely since he is also behind cover...
GuardianAngel 08-15-05, 05:17 PM	Yo this is the Archon any objections? Zantar A powerfully build humanoid with a head of a dog appears both seerene and ready for action, with a greatsword strapped across its broad back and an expression that indicates intelligence and protectiveness. Male Hound Archon Lawful-Good Hound Archon CR 4, ECL 11 Used elite Array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 STR...15 [+2]...[11, +4 racial] DEX...10 [+0]...[10] CON...13 [+1]...[11, +2 racial] INT....10 [+0]...[10] WIS...13 [+1]...[11, +2racial] CHA...12 [+1]...[10, +2racial] Hit Points: 39 [6d8+12] AC 23 [+4 Mage Armor, +9 Natural Armor], Touch 10, Flat 22 [+2 vs Evil] [+5 Breastplate] Initiative: +4 [+4 feat] BAB/Grap: +6/+8 [+6 bab, +2 str] Speed 30' Saves: Fort +7 [+5 Outsider, +2 Con] [+4 Racial vs Poisons] Refl +8 [+5 Outsider, +3 Dex] Will +6 [+5 Outsider, +1 Wis] Immune to Electricity and petrification Attacks: Bite +8 melee, 1d8+4 [20/x2] Greatsword +9 melee, 2d6+7 [19-20/x2] Slam +8 melee, 1d4+4 [20/x2] Feats: Power Attack [1st lvl] Improved Iniative [3rd lvl] Track [6th lvl] Racial and Class Abilities: Darkvision: PG: 17 MM Aura of Menance (Su): DC 17 Magic Circle against Evil (Su): Teleport (Su): Tongues (Su): Spell-like Abilites (Su): Change Shape (Su): Skills 36 skill points: +11 Concentration [9 rnks, +1 Con] [9 Outsider] +9 Hide [9 rnks] [9 Outsider] +11 Jump [9 rnks, +2 Str] [9 Outsider] +10 Listen [9 rnks, +1 Wis][9 Outsider] +9 Move Silently [9 rnks][9 Outsider] +10 Sense Motive [9 rnks, +1 Wis][9 Outsider] +10 Spot [9 rnks, +1 Wis][9 Outsider] +10 Survivial [9 rnks, +1 Wis][0 Outsider] Speaks All Spells per Day: [at will] Caster Level: [6th] Aid, Continual Flame, Detect Evil, Message Caster Level: [14th] Teleport, Tounges Equipment Total GP: 2350 +1 Greatsword [8 lbs][2350 gp] [B]Expendable Items Total GP: 600 Potion of Cure Moderatie Wounds [CL 3] [300 gp] Potion of Cure Moderatie Wounds [CL 3] [300 gp] Potion of Cure Moderatie Wounds [CL 3] [300 gp] Potion of Mage Armor [CL 1] [50gp] Miscellaneous Statistics: Encumbance: 0-100 (light), 101-200 (medium), 201-300 (heavy) Weight carried: 8 lb
Gonbow 08-15-05, 05:18 PM	I OBJECT with round 9 in the horseman FFA... why do i back away and take an AoO when is interesting as my tactics are, they do clearly say dagnal TAKES PRIORITY ... and if hes based me already and we are going toe to toe... and the rules of a FFA DO NOT SAY that i have to kill alac before killing dagnal... it just says hes my target and thats what i would get winners share...... War knows who the real threat is... and its in his face and trading blows... Dagnal had already disarmed my lance which would not go over well since i planned on charging both of them with lance for one hit kills i dont see the justification for moving away from dagnal... taking an AoO because he is large and then just futilely since he is also behind cover... Objection sustained. Why did I have you back away and start shooting arrows? Because you state several times you want to shoot arrows, and to shoot arrows at Alac while sticking around Dagnal. You clearly state to charge Dagnal rather than Alac if you can, but like I said, the priortization on the rest of your tactics are really sketchy. If you'd like to shoot that arrow at Dagnal instead, I will consider changing that part of the fight and noting any changes it has in the long run.
Altaris13 08-15-05, 05:23 PM	:kneels and grabs the oil: :D
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 05:26 PM	@Guardian Angel - for a monster fight, it is not that much. Take the stats from the SRD/MM and add equipment as the 4th lvl NPC (3300gp). You wouldn't need to (and shouldn't) create a whole sheet for it - I didn't compare the two, but the only differences between the one listed in the SRD/MM and yours should be the equipment that you bought. /d
Maraxus 08-15-05, 05:43 PM	GuardianAngel: Using elite Array adds +1 to the challenge rating. All: Again, I have to say, that equiping monsters definitly overpowers them. THey have their challenge raiting without and usefull stuff. If you give them NPC-equipment, you have to calculate their CR as you would do it with NPCs: By their ECL. And for the hound archon this is 11. Okay, this would be it, if they had 11th level equipment ... But at least for the Hound archon I can say, that it does not have medium armor proficency. ... Not that it matters.
sloisel 08-15-05, 05:45 PM	Thanks for running the fight, GuardianAngel (although I liked the strikethrough version better, ha ha!) About the DC, I forgot to grab a scroll of owl's wisdom. In fact I had it written down, then in the flurry of last minute modifications I made, I erased it. Of course since I died before anything happened, the point is moot. Sebastien Loisel
Altaris13 08-15-05, 05:48 PM	:cheer: Go Telin Go! :cheer: :dancin: Yay Maraxus! :dancin: :bow: You guys Roxxorx! :bow: But Cat has spoken... :weep: And I'll taken it like a man... in prison. :eek: Seriously, it is OK. The online dice really do hate me. My luck with the dice has been terrible since I arrived. We'll see if my tactics work or not (I'm presuming not...) Thanks again to those who gave me some pointers, it is much appreciated.
GuardianAngel 08-15-05, 06:24 PM	Next battle up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6974058&postcount=238) Altaris you should click this one ;)
Altaris13 08-15-05, 06:26 PM	Next battle up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6974058&postcount=238) Altaris you should click this one ;) Saw it before you posted here. :D I believe it was said that I get 450XP & 300gp since the Hound is CR4. EDIT: Thanks again for Pitlording.
nightbanegod 08-15-05, 08:27 PM	Objection sustained. Why did I have you back away and start shooting arrows? Because you state several times you want to shoot arrows, and to shoot arrows at Alac while sticking around Dagnal. You clearly state to charge Dagnal rather than Alac if you can, but like I said, the priortization on the rest of your tactics are really sketchy. If you'd like to shoot that arrow at Dagnal instead, I will consider changing that part of the fight and noting any changes it has in the long run. *calmly* Your Honor, if you would, my client would appreciate this move in action, (and if at all possible make the attack with the flail since he is in melee range prior to backing up only because that is what they had previously been engaging with, if you rule its AoO then Bow i will deal)... and he would only like to point out that he apologizes about the tactics, however there is the point where it does state that Dagnal is Priority... :bow: :bow: :bow:
Maraxus 08-15-05, 08:53 PM	And I'd like to have any featback about my poison arrows. (Reminder: I stated in my tactics, that I will poison them after dropping my enemy below 0hp but instead I CDG-ed my opponent.) I don't want to bug you with this but I think I could really use them in the next fight (depending on the opponent). :)
GuardianAngel 08-15-05, 09:08 PM	Dude, i thought you would have re-read that in the battle I edited it like 2 mins after you replyed me. On another note: Yoriko Obato (Mind Rogue) vs Tlanth (TelinArtho) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6975647&postcount=239)
King Uther 08-15-05, 09:48 PM	OKay, new fight is up, Virgo barely loses. I can accept this, but only after one thing is answered. Rake (Ex): A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks when it grapples its foe. Normally, a monster can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling, but a monster with the rake ability usually gains two additional claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. Rake attacks are not subject to the usual –4 penalty for attacking with a natural weapon in a grapple. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn. Mer-Man claws twice and bites once in a grapple, something the rake ability and the grapple rules say you cannot. Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a –4 penalty on such attacks. You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons. He should get 1 claw and 2 rakes, and not 2 claws, 1 bite, and 2 rakes. EDIT: Stupid Skip.
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 09:51 PM	Looks pretty good - didn't get all of the contingencies in my tactics (alright, I didn't get any of them...). In round 3, the two Centipedes charge at Yoriko. One gets killed on an AoO, but the other one doesn't get in its attack. Also, in round 3, Yoriko moves a total of 95 feet from (-4,18) to (-17,5) - her charge can only move her a total of 80 feet. In addition, she can't hit Tlanth from -17,5 to -19,3 (two diagonals = 3 5' squares) [On this point I'm actually not sure - but I think it is correct] Lastly, the centipede attack that hits after I've gone down deals Dex damage (and since it didn't get the attack earlier, this would've been on the AoO before) - meaning she loses 4 dex damage before her charge in. According to my tactics, I would start to cast another summon spell in round 4. Then, according to her tactics, she would come in to attempt to disarm me of my holy symbol. If she fails, she has more centipedes to deal with, plus I haven't been tripped yet. The following round, I either spontaneously cast an Inflict Light Wounds and attempt to touch her, or simply draw my flails and attack (using strength feat). This is all according to the tactics as written.
Gonbow 08-15-05, 09:54 PM	OKay, new fight is up, Virgo barely loses. I can accept this, but only after one thing is answered. Rake (Ex): A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks when it grapples its foe. Normally, a monster can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling, but a monster with the rake ability usually gains two additional claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. Rake attacks are not subject to the usual –4 penalty for attacking with a natural weapon in a grapple. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn. Mer-Man claws twice and bites once in a grapple, something the rake ability and the grapple rules say you cannot. Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a –4 penalty on such attacks. You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons. He should get 1 claw and 2 rakes, and not 2 claws, 1 bite, and 2 rakes. I brought this up in another thread, and what it comes down to is RAW vrs Skip Williams in the Rules of the Game article series (Although Skip offers an alternative that functionally works the way you and I said it should work RAW, he seems to imply that it doesn't NORMALLY work that way... eh.). Skip says he gets 2 claws, 1 bite and 2 rakes if he begins the turn grappling. So.. <shrugs>
xanadu 08-15-05, 10:08 PM	King, I think if someone has played a gladiator for months that has some sort of legal basis, then the benefit of the doubt should be given to the gladiator. Since we can look to Skip's article and say yes, then I'd give it to him. The real question is whether or not the -4 penalty applies if he tries to use all his weapons. I tenatively say yes because of the same article by Skip, but I'm just guessing and wasn't really concerned about it because it wouldn't change the fight one but.
King Uther 08-15-05, 10:28 PM	Well, I can honestly say I am unhappy about the way things turned out with Mer-Man vs Virgo. I feel like the win was grabbed from me because our liege decided his vague wording should be ignored, when in many fights(him vs Jindl), he argued the opposite. There is no consistency here, and that upsets me greatly. I poured over his tactics multiple times, and nothing he says makes me think he wants to grapple except the mention of 5 attacks. If he would've won the other way, he'd be fine with it. But alas, it doesn't matter, as I am powerless to do anything. Maybe I sound just like anyone else with a fight error. Excuse me if I sound angry, I'm not.
SoulLord 08-15-05, 10:31 PM	Dameon vs Amion is up fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6976433&postcount=240) please check for errors so I can correct them
Zerone 08-15-05, 10:36 PM	Omo-Na vs. Karisia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6976508&postcount=241) is up. *•. Z
Mind Rogue 08-15-05, 11:04 PM	TelinArtho, you're right, although I like how short and concise the fight was. Fixing the centipede missing on its initial charge isn't likely to do much, since Yoriko's AC is still 15 at this point and she has a pretty good fort save, so the chances of the poison working are about 15%, and even less that the AC will drop, which in itself does not alter the fight (since dex wasn't an issue, and it can't drop my AC enough that the AoO hits and I have enough Hp to survive all of the centipede's attacks). However, the fight should be edited, both because of the missing attack, and the tactical error, although that's probably even less likely to change anything, since my AoO and two flurry attacks could be used to disarm you, since I have a relative +7 on my opposed attack roll (-1 str, +4 non-weapon, +4 opponent prone). Even if you do get the spell off though, I'm still ignoring the centipedes and pounding you to the ground, which I'm quite likely to do.
Luni 08-15-05, 11:06 PM	Dameon vs Amion is up fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6976433&postcount=240) please check for errors so I can correct them The only error is, that Dameon is an outsider, and not effected by hold person. Won't change the result though.
NiQil 08-15-05, 11:09 PM	So I'm curious....since the deadline for fights to be in like 5 hours away and I ahve characters in two different fights that have not been posted, what happens if neither of those battles gets done? Do they get held over to next week or is there some way to get them reassigned so that they could get done tomorrow? One of them is easy...a monster fight....the other not so easy...a 4 person FFA. I've not had this happen to any of my fighters before, so I am curious how this is handled, assuming neither fight shows up between now and the deadline.
nightbanegod 08-15-05, 11:12 PM	good luck with that NIQIL, expecially if you have any discrepencies with your fights,, *id only be concerned with the FFA*... you prolly wont get them settled in time for wednesday parings
Gonbow 08-15-05, 11:18 PM	If the fight is posted late, the pitlord loses the credit for that fight. If it's not posted at all, the pitlord loses another credit and someone else runs it, IIRC. Speaking of which, revision to Dagnal vrs Horseman vrs Alac, the result did change slightly, but since I doubt many people have read it yet, I'll keep the result to myself for now. I'm working on my other fight, it should be up before the deadline.
SoulLord 08-15-05, 11:23 PM	The only error is, that Dameon is an outsider, and not effected by hold person. Won't change the result though. ouch I have some newfound respect for outsiders. one thing though are they considered "native" outsiders or can one banish them? use circle of protection to keep them at bay?
Zerone 08-15-05, 11:26 PM	So I'm curious....since the deadline for fights to be in like 5 hours away and I ahve characters in two different fights that have not been posted, what happens if neither of those battles gets done? Do they get held over to next week or is there some way to get them reassigned so that they could get done tomorrow? One of them is easy...a monster fight....the other not so easy...a 4 person FFA. I've not had this happen to any of my fighters before, so I am curious how this is handled, assuming neither fight shows up between now and the deadline. Something to remember is that this is less important than real life. Lately I've been very peroccupied and am actually removing myself from fights (fighting and Pitlording) due to time constraints. I haven't had time to write a story in some time now and this saddens me. So, while this might not always be the case, patience is a virtue... :D Perhaps the 'guilty' party will offer the fight up to some one else or finish it just in time or it might wait for another week... I understand this is frustrating, but what's one week? *•. Z
NiQil 08-15-05, 11:34 PM	Something to remember is that this is less important than real life. Lately I've been very peroccupied and am actually removing myself from fights (fighting and Pitlording) due to time constraints. I haven't had time to write a story in some time now and this saddens me. So, while this might not always be the case, patience is a virtue... :D Perhaps the 'guilty' party will offer the fight up to some one else or finish it just in time or it might wait for another week... I understand this is frustrating, but what's one week? *•. Z I have no problem waiting if I have to...but obviously I would prefer not to if it can be prevented. I was just asking for reference, as this is the first time it has happened to me, and with not 1 but 2 fights LOL. I *do hope they show up by the deadline....that would be outstanding. But I had no idea what happened if they didn't, hence the reason for my question.
Luni 08-15-05, 11:35 PM	ouch I have some newfound respect for outsiders. one thing though are they considered "native" outsiders or can one banish them? use circle of protection to keep them at bay? Hmm. They are native, so no banishing them. Also Circle of Protection can't keep them out, as they aren't summoned.
Luni 08-15-05, 11:41 PM	Omo-Na vs. Karisia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6976508&postcount=241) is up. *•. Z Hmm. Omo did use resources. Stone of Inertial Armor.
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 11:42 PM	Actually, its not even a question of whether the AoO will hit. If the centipede gets the attack it should the attack roll for the AoO would be used for it. Then the AoO would be rolled - but that number is already rolled for after I went down. So you would suffer 4 dex damage. Now, at the end of your double move, you are still 20 feet away - too far away to 5' step and flurry. So you'd have one chance to disarm me. I assume it would use the roll for the touch attack (7) - so my chances are not so bad to finish my spell. Regardless, with you using your single attack for a disarm to disrupt my casting, I'd then be able to draw a flail and attack 2-handed (possibly hitting), and now you'd need a new attack (your natural 20) and you'd most certainly succeed in dropping me to the ground. However, this time, you'd be doing 7 damage instead of 15 (you'd still hit because of your roll for the AoO from me standing up last time). Alright, so I'm on the ground, and I try to stand up - now you have an AoO for when I stand. I don't believe you can fell me in one hit at this point, so I'd get another attack with my flail 2-handed. So unless I've missed anything, I'm pretty much assured to get 2 more attacks on you. Also, the centipede gets another attack on you before it disappears. I'm not saying I have a good chance, but this way would follow our tactics. /d
Zerone 08-15-05, 11:43 PM	Hmm. Omo did use resources. Stone of Inertial Armor. Yes, and I also made an error on you being able to move with a Readied Action. I have to change this to be fair, and I am changing it now... *•. Z
Zerone 08-16-05, 12:13 AM	With the Darkness spell, if it is centered on a character, does another character outside the AoE gain the 20% concealment miss chance from a ranged attack from the character it is centered on? What if the target of the darkness spell has Darkvision? Thanks, *•. Z
NiQil 08-16-05, 12:18 AM	Huzzah! Kaigen comes through and gets the FFA in. Now for the corrections. It appears my tactics were totally disregarded. In the first two rounds, I did nothing but move around, when I had specifically spelled out what to buff with in rounds 1 and 2. If my buffs had been done correctly, I should not have been close enough to my hunter to allow any attacks to occur, since I would have had the speed advantage. And then, in round 3, I move away from someone and provoke an AoO instead of withdraw? Why? Assuming that these attacks would still have occurred if my buffing had been done correctly (which I doubt they would have). Now, did I specifically say to withdraw if engaged in melee? No. Is that what a smart player would do if they don't want to be near someone? Yes. I would expect my character to be treated as if he was yours, and played with the same intelligence you would play your characters. Would you ever move away from someone and provoke an AoO if you have the option to withdraw instead? I know I wouldn't. So I definitely think revisions are in order, as I do not think that what happened to Methos would have happened if his buffing had been done properly.
Aramil Dunskar 08-16-05, 12:19 AM	My fight Czernobog vs Vandelar the Red, is up, I'll be around until 6 pm EST tomorrow to fix it up, then i'm headin off to GenCon. -Aramil
Gonbow 08-16-05, 12:22 AM	Mugen vrs Farfinar (Or Farfinar vrs Mugen, depending on if you like alphabetical or not) is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6977523&postcount=244). Yeesh, this one went so fast, I should have done it rather than doing the 3-person one first! @Kaigan I sent you a PM regarding the FFA. Thanks for putting it up; I understand if you don't have time for revisions. Edit: God, typos. So many typos in my tactics in the FFA <cringes>.
Meek Head 08-16-05, 12:24 AM	My fight Czernobog vs Vandelar the Red, is up, I'll be around until 6 pm EST tomorrow to fix it up, then i'm headin off to GenCon. -Aramil I could have used my one spell level of Arcane Spells to color spray instead of riding up and attacking with my Scythe in round 8.
Meek Head 08-16-05, 12:25 AM	Mugen vrs Farfinar (Or Farfinar vrs Mugen, depending on if you like alphabetical or not) is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6977523&postcount=244). Yeesh, this one went so fast, I should have done it father than doing the 3-person one first! @Kaigan I sent you a PM regarding the FFA. Thanks for putting it up; I understand if you don't have time for revisions. I'm a psionic newb, can you explain how he gets 6d10?
Gonbow 08-16-05, 12:28 AM	I'm a psionic newb, can you explain how he gets 6d10? Base: 1d10 Surge: +1d10, increases ML to 6. PP: +4d10, increases DC by 2 Greater Psionic Endowment: Expends focus, increases DC by 2. It's very powerful. It also takes just over half his psionic points, and if you had saved you would have taken NO damage. You had 6 numbers to save with (15-20), so he had a roughly 3/4 chance of insta-winning, which he took and the odds worked out.
Aramil Dunskar 08-16-05, 12:52 AM	I could have used my one spell level of Arcane Spells to color spray instead of riding up and attacking with my Scythe in round 8. Yes, well I figured that instead of riding up to make yourself in range of his close range spells I'd figure that you would instead opt to stay back and hope that one of your hold person spells would work. If you would like for me to edit. I will, just let me know soon. -Aramil
NedTheDestroyer 08-16-05, 01:08 AM	actually i can only agument the cost up to my manifester level (so in this case 4pp). So the base is 1d10 (for 1pp) and I had 1d10 extra for each point i augment it (4d10 total for 4pp). then enter in my sure and that adds two levels to my manifester level and pays for the augment so that takes it to the grand total of 6d10.
Luni 08-16-05, 01:20 AM	Yes, and I also made an error on you being able to move with a Readied Action. I have to change this to be fair, and I am changing it now... *•. Z You can move with a readied action. It is a standard action to ready.
Kaigan 08-16-05, 01:37 AM	okay, my revised fight is up, taking into account methos' tattoos of skate and force screen, Yasha's Hp of 23, and the attack that can be made during a trip due to improved trip. please look over it again. The Fight @NiQiL: Please read comment in fight during round 4 i think.
Erithmu 08-16-05, 01:38 AM	New version of Silas vs Devon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6955995&postcount=225) is up. Some minor changes.
Gonbow 08-16-05, 01:40 AM	@Kaigan H-holy crap! Might want to revise your comments to the gladiators section to! Dear god, that certainly isn't a result I expected.
Kaigan 08-16-05, 01:43 AM	@Kaigan H-holy crap! Might want to revise your comments to the gladiators section to! Dear god, that certainly isn't a result I expected. Please check for mistakes, especially with tactics. I wasn't sure of my call with NiQil and his movement, so I'll wait for him to post before I make the fight final.
NiQil 08-16-05, 01:58 AM	Please check for mistakes, especially with tactics. I wasn't sure of my call with NiQil and his movement, so I'll wait for him to post before I make the fight final. I have absolutely no problems with that result. I expected to be the first person down, since this character is not built for a FFA environment. I just didn't want to go down without at least having him make an effort. It ends up doing nothing more than causing me to lose some resources, but I feel much better about the fight this way. Thank you for making the revision. Edit: Also, (and I would have to doublecheck the fight because I don't remember at the moment who killed who) bear in mind that you only get experience for killing your targets. So if Yasha stayed invisible the whole fight and killed no one, her XP will be affected (at least it should be). And the others should get rewards for their kills as well. I believe it was Alexi that killed me, but I could be mistaken. I'd have to go back to look, and I am headed to bed. Just an FYI. The awards may all be correct.....I just wanted to mention it just in case.
Meek Head 08-16-05, 02:02 AM	Yes, well I figured that instead of riding up to make yourself in range of his close range spells I'd figure that you would instead opt to stay back and hope that one of your hold person spells would work. If you would like for me to edit. I will, just let me know soon. -Aramil Yes, I feel that you did a good job with my tactics, just that in round 8 I think a character of my type/classes (cleric/mage) would cast first, melee second. I would like to see Czernobog use his spell levels if possible when possible, and seeing as Vandelar didn't send out his familiar, that leaves Czernobog with his single wizard spell available, and round 8 would be a good possibility to use it instead of melee. :)
Gonbow 08-16-05, 02:13 AM	I have absolutely no problems with that result. I expected to be the first person down, since this character is not built for a FFA environment. I just didn't want to go down without at least having him make an effort. It ends up doing nothing more than causing me to lose some resources, but I feel much better about the fight this way. Thank you for making the revision. Edit: Also, (and I would have to doublecheck the fight because I don't remember at the moment who killed who) bear in mind that you only get experience for killing your targets. So if Yasha stayed invisible the whole fight and killed no one, her XP will be affected (at least it should be). And the others should get rewards for their kills as well. I believe it was Alexi that killed me, but I could be mistaken. I'd have to go back to look, and I am headed to bed. Just an FYI. The awards may all be correct.....I just wanted to mention it just in case. No, in this version of the fight Yasha actually brings every other person in the fight into the negatives. Two of them from full HPs no less! The other two are already wounded and Yasha does clean-up, which is very easy to do with a 10' reach. Apparently Yasha IS built for FFA ^_^ Of course, if there is a mistake somewhere, that'll change, but I'm not noticing anything. Of course, I'm biased, so someone else really should look at it. Dagnal vrs Horseman vrs Alac update: Added Pauper's story, though the limit on the size of the post required that I snip the vast majority of my comments, and even a few fluff-related pieces of information from the character sheets.. Sorry guys! If something is missing, it's because I needed the space to include the story.
NiQil 08-16-05, 02:16 AM	No, in this version of the fight Yasha actually brings every other person in the fight into the negatives. Two of them from full HPs no less! The other two are already wounded and Yasha does clean-up, which is very easy to do with a 10' reach. Apparently Yasha IS built for FFA ^_^ Heh...aren't you glad I insisted my tactics be followed? LOL Look how a couple of rounds can change a battle LOL
Gonbow 08-16-05, 02:44 AM	@Kaigan Yasha would actually get 54 more gold, as she was making money with Craft: Torture Devices in her spare time, and had a +8 modifier at the time. Minor detail; I checked, but no one else in the fight seemed to be doing something similar.
GuardianAngel 08-16-05, 03:46 AM	Sorry guys but I just found out That I have one more Battle To Run, very tired I posted the Tatics on the Battle Page, Along with the Character Sheets if a Pitlord wants to Run this BAttle be my guess, but I am going to sleep and might be able to do this battle after work tomarrow.
Maraxus 08-16-05, 04:21 AM	GuardianAngel: Oh, there it is... :rolleyes: I looked ... I thought ... Somebody must have cast blindness on me. :rolleyes:
Caterane 08-16-05, 04:59 AM	Well, I can honestly say I am unhappy about the way things turned out with Mer-Man vs Virgo. I feel like the win was grabbed from me because our liege decided his vague wording should be ignored, when in many fights(him vs Jindl), he argued the opposite. There is no consistency here, and that upsets me greatly. I poured over his tactics multiple times, and nothing he says makes me think he wants to grapple except the mention of 5 attacks. If he would've won the other way, he'd be fine with it. But alas, it doesn't matter, as I am powerless to do anything. Maybe I sound just like anyone else with a fight error. Excuse me if I sound angry, I'm not. Uther, it's not unclear when I mention several times that the most important thing is my superiority in attacks. This was not guaranteed outside a grapple. The reason why I did not explicitely write to enter grapple is that I assumed that I can rake outside melee, like I could in all my past fights. Since this was my intend (5 attacks), and 90% of my tactic deals with grapples, and the fact that Merman is the better grappler, makes the course of action very clear. Having me stay out of grapple and giving me only 3 attacks vs 2 of yours would be a huge deviation from what my whole plan was. And please do not forget that Xanadu had adapted to a great extend in the first run for Virgo which was everytime contradictory to what you wanted to do in your tactics; without it, Merman would've won the first run aswell. I assure you, had you won this rerun - and it was very close! - then I wouldn't have said anything but congratulated you. I promised Xanadu that and he can confirm it. I still congratulate you on a good build for you almost defeated a buffed Merman unbuffed; few could hope to do that, and I am sure we will meet again next level.
KerlanRayne 08-16-05, 05:59 AM	With the Darkness spell, if it is centered on a character, does another character outside the AoE gain the 20% concealment miss chance from a ranged attack from the character it is centered on? What if the target of the darkness spell has Darkvision? Thanks, *•. ZNo miss chance. Think of it like a guy standing under a lamp post, only backwards. KerlanRayne
waywreth 08-16-05, 08:34 AM	What? Why did Amion give up? He's a cleric with a damn decent AC. Go wack him with the morningstar. Come on please at least finish the fight. I don't mind losing, I do mind losing at full hit points. Is it because I can never catch him? I've only spent 2 scrolls, that's not that much... I have a bunch of other items and never noted to hold back.
TelinArtho 08-16-05, 09:00 AM	@Guardian Angel - if you are having trouble getting in all of your fights, you need to PM Pitlords that you won't be able to finish on time AND send him the tactics for everyone. Just remember that for the future. Also, the earlier in the week that you do this - the better.
Zerone 08-16-05, 09:51 AM	Omo-Na vs. Karisia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6976508&postcount=241) is up. The fight has been edited. The edits are in Red. *•. Z
SoulLord 08-16-05, 10:18 AM	What? Why did Amion give up? He's a cleric with a damn decent AC. Go wack him with the morningstar. Come on please at least finish the fight. I don't mind losing, I do mind losing at full hit points. Is it because I can never catch him? I've only spent 2 scrolls, that's not that much... I have a bunch of other items and never noted to hold back. Ok If you want me to I'll go ahead and continue the fight from that point. A few notes tough he's faster than you so it will be difficult to catch him. and some gladiators don't like people using resources they have not specified to be used so if you want your pitlord to use all available resources a note in the tactics is the way to go.
NiQil 08-16-05, 11:10 AM	@Cat Has anyone heard anything from TCB? I would really like to not have this fight held over if at all possible....any chance of getting this fight reassigned to someone that could do it today? It would be very easy for me to write up the tactics again....they weren't that complicated.
Caterane 08-16-05, 11:14 AM	Any takers for that fight?
TelinArtho 08-16-05, 11:19 AM	I'll take it.
NiQil 08-16-05, 11:26 AM	I'll take it. Sent tactics via PM.
TelinArtho 08-16-05, 11:28 AM	Assuming Pitlords/Cat approves of me taking the fight - Tactics received and will be running soon.
SoulLord 08-16-05, 11:33 AM	Amion vs Dameon is ready Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6976433&postcount=240) the outcome changed .....
Pitlords 08-16-05, 12:01 PM	@Telin: k @Soullord: The spiritual weapon cannot attack if the caster is unconscious. The outcome stays the same.
SoulLord 08-16-05, 12:21 PM	Outcome corrected fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6976433&postcount=240)
TelinArtho 08-16-05, 12:44 PM	@Niqil - the fight is up. I didn't make use of your wand, but I could have just as easily - if you want me to, I'll edit the fight with it. Its up to you. If you want it in the future, you should definitely mention it in your tactics though... Caspian vs Fungo the Phantom Fungus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6981504)
NiQil 08-16-05, 12:50 PM	@Niqil - the fight is up. I didn't make use of your wand, but I could have just as easily - if you want me to, I'll edit the fight with it. Its up to you. If you want it in the future, you should definitely mention it in your tactics though... Caspian vs Fungo the Phantom Fungus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6981504) If you could, please do so. I forgot to mention it in my tactics....I had it in the first set but forgot to put it in the set I typed to you. My bad. If you would take that into account, it would be appreciated. That whole undispellable greater invisibility is a nightmare for me here LOL.
TelinArtho 08-16-05, 12:58 PM	Edited - I guess I shouldn't have been worried about using up resources... Sorry dude. /d
SoulLord 08-16-05, 12:58 PM	Yes, I feel that you did a good job with my tactics, just that in round 8 I think a character of my type/classes (cleric/mage) would cast first, melee second. I would like to see Czernobog use his spell levels if possible when possible, and seeing as Vandelar didn't send out his familiar, that leaves Czernobog with his single wizard spell available, and round 8 would be a good possibility to use it instead of melee. :) But you had already missed with that attack on round 8 so basically you want to trade a failed attack to force a save on me wich will if sucessful blind me and stun me not a fair trade if I was asked you could as well argue the opposite if you had used your spell that you prefered melee and that you should be allowed to attack if you noticed that I had sucessfuly saved vs the spell.
NiQil 08-16-05, 01:03 PM	Edited - I guess I shouldn't have been worried about using up resources... Sorry dude. /d No worries....I had the invisibility for the most part countered, but there's not much I can do against successive critical hits. At least this was able to get done and not held over so all of my characters are available for pairings again....and hopefully none of them see Sir Valkin anytime soon LOL. Yer gettin rich off of killing my characters with him.
Gonbow 08-16-05, 01:12 PM	Hmm. Regarding the fungus fight; why didn't he just use the wand on the turn he drew it? 5-step, draw (move) activate (standard)? <shrugs> I don't suppose someone wants to complete Guardianangel's last fight?
NiQil 08-16-05, 01:14 PM	Hmm. Regarding the fungus fight; why didn't he just use the wand on the turn he drew it? 5-step, draw (move) activate (standard)? <shrugs> I don't suppose someone wants to complete Guardianangel's last fight? I totally missed that, Gonbow....thanks for the heads up. Telin...can I get another revision? There may be hope yet....even if it costs me a couple of wand charges before I die I'd rather take the shot....
TelinArtho 08-16-05, 01:25 PM	@NiQil - you can only take a move action or a standard action (-1 hp) because you are disabled. If Pitlords doesn't mind, I'll try to get the 2v2 fight done. When does it need to be in by? 8am GMT? (3am my time - shouldn't be a problem). The only thing is, if there's errors, there really won't be much time to fix them. If Pitlords says yes, I can do it. (I'm trying to pick up credits plus its that whole Do unto others... (if my gladiators are on the brink of going into another week, hopefully someone else will leap in like I have...). /d
NiQil 08-16-05, 01:28 PM	@NiQil - you can only take a move action or a standard action (-1 hp) because you are disabled. If Pitlords doesn't mind, I'll try to get the 2v2 fight done. When does it need to be in by? 8am GMT? (3am my time - shouldn't be a problem). The only thing is, if there's errors, there really won't be much time to fix them. If Pitlords says yes, I can do it. (I'm trying to pick up credits plus its that whole Do unto others... (if my gladiators are on the brink of going into another week, hopefully someone else will leap in like I have...). /d One other thing I just noticed Telin......in the whole battle you have my AC wrong. It is 17, not 16. Unless the water is taking away Dex or something...I didn't see that noted anywhere. With that correction, the second attack that was a confirmed critical would not have confirmed. Thus the damage less, thus giving me the ability to heal.
TelinArtho 08-16-05, 01:31 PM	An Invisible attacker gets a +2 to hit and the defender doesn't get his/her dex bonus. Just because you know what square it is in doesn't change that it is invisible. Your AC is 10 + 4 (armor) + 2 (deflection)
NiQil 08-16-05, 01:33 PM	An Invisible attacker gets a +2 to hit and the defender doesn't get his/her dex bonus. Just because you know what square it is in doesn't change that it is invisible. Your AC is 10 + 4 (armor) + 2 (deflection) Ahhh....I was not aware of that. Cool beans...then it's all set. Thanks for the step-in.
Aramil Dunskar 08-16-05, 02:56 PM	But you had already missed with that attack on round 8 so basically you want to trade a failed attack to force a save on me wich will if sucessful blind me and stun me not a fair trade if I was asked you could as well argue the opposite if you had used your spell that you prefered melee and that you should be allowed to attack if you noticed that I had sucessfuly saved vs the spell. Ok, rather then edit the fight, I will post the results of that round right here. Depending on the situation, I will ask Meek if he still wants me to change the fight or not. So here we go. Will Save vs Color Spray: 18 vs DC 16, pass (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=135150) So according to that, the you would just go on with the rest of the game, and Vandelar would still win after he uses his pearl of power. -Aramil
waywreth 08-16-05, 03:06 PM	Thank you for continuing the fight for me Soul Lord. I may have lost but at least I can lose now feeling my gladiator gave it his all. The dice gawds however owe me some explanations...
Mind Rogue 08-16-05, 03:13 PM	@ Kaigan Being that my prey was being rather flighty, I took the liberty of sketching out where people where running to and from. In several rounds, Rebeca appears to move 5 ft more then possible. In round 5, she ends in space (-14, -11), which is actually a solid collumn. Also, in round 5, Yasha ends her charge in square (-15, -6), which is 30' from Rebeca and thus out of his reach, so she should end in (-15, -9). Finally, later that round, Methos moves to (-26, -6) from (-22, 13), and then fires. I think you didn't mean for it to be negative, and thus should be (-26, 6). Assuming this isn't an error, Alexi would not be able to charge him on the following round. Also, you didn't update Alexi's position for round 6, but it probably should be (-25, 7). Finally, because of this slightly farther distance, Alexi is outside of Yasha's 80' charge range and thus is not succecible to being killed in one fell swoop the next turn. I'm also slightly annoyed about that one-shot kill and the following kill steal. Also, Alexi's damage on crits is 2d6 +6 plus 1d8, not 2d6 +3 plus 1d8,
SoulLord 08-16-05, 03:16 PM	Ok, rather then edit the fight, I will post the results of that round right here. Depending on the situation, I will ask Meek if he still wants me to change the fight or not. So here we go. Will Save vs Color Spray: 18 vs DC 16, pass (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=135150) So according to that, the you would just go on with the rest of the game, and Vandelar would still win after he uses his pearl of power. -Aramil works for me as I can begin to edit the charsheet
Erithmu 08-16-05, 03:21 PM	New version of Silas vs Devon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6955995&postcount=225) is up. Some minor changes. Story writen by *coughbiasedcough .. excuse me ... Story by NiQil
Gonbow 08-16-05, 03:35 PM	Finally, because of this slightly farther distance, Alexi is outside of Yasha's 80' charge range and thus is not succecible to being killed in one fell swoop the next turn. Yasha's charge distance is 90' actually, since the spiked chain is a reach weapon, I just need to get within 10' of my opponent. As for the rest: Indeed, the movement seems a bit sketchy. I'd have to get out the map and plot it out to check these though. Do I hafta? =/
NiQil 08-16-05, 03:40 PM	Yasha's charge distance is 90' actually, since the spiked chain is a reach weapon, I just need to get within 10' of my opponent. As for the rest: Indeed, the movement seems a bit sketchy. I'd have to get out the map and plot it out to check these though. Do I hafta? =/ You might as well....because if Mind Rogue is correct and I ended up in a place where she couldn't charge me in round 3, that is gonna change the battle again....I'll probably still be the first to die, but it could change other results also.
Meek Head 08-16-05, 03:47 PM	works for me as I can begin to edit the charsheet Naturally it works for you? You have to admit your lucky rolls won you this fight. :tissue:
TelinArtho 08-16-05, 04:02 PM	So - any word from Pitlords or Cat yet about me taking Guardian Angel's 2v2 fight? Guardian Angel posted all the tactics up in the battles thread and I've already started working on it - but I don't want to step on too many toes... /d
Caterane 08-16-05, 04:41 PM	Well yes of course! Take it. I think we could make it a general rule that after tuesday 8 AM GMT any fights that are not posted can be taken over.
Luni 08-16-05, 04:43 PM	I like that plan Caterane. Please tell me how I lost, Telin!
TelinArtho 08-16-05, 05:34 PM	Still going - 9 rounds in. I'll finish it after I get home tonight. (Little preview - no one's dead yet...)
Gonbow 08-16-05, 06:14 PM	Still going - 9 rounds in. I'll finish it after I get home tonight. (Little preview - no one's dead yet...) No one dead? Disgraceful. Commence ultimate final attack my minion! Santos, Awwaayyyy! (Sealab 2021 quote)
nightbanegod 08-16-05, 06:50 PM	thanks for runnin that fight gonbow.... now my horseman is hiding his head in shame for gettin melee'd to death by a mage!! :P
Gonbow 08-16-05, 08:16 PM	thanks for runnin that fight gonbow.... now my horseman is hiding his head in shame for gettin melee'd to death by a mage!! :P If the original result was unliekly, this one is even slightly more so; like you said, getting beat in melee by a mage... but the both of you greatly underestimated him, anyways ;)
Kaigan 08-16-05, 08:33 PM	@ Kaigan Being that my prey was being rather flighty, I took the liberty of sketching out where people where running to and from. In several rounds, Rebeca appears to move 5 ft more then possible. In round 5, she ends in space (-14, -11), which is actually a solid collumn. Also, in round 5, Yasha ends her charge in square (-15, -6), which is 30' from Rebeca and thus out of his reach, so she should end in (-15, -9). Finally, later that round, Methos moves to (-26, -6) from (-22, 13), and then fires. I think you didn't mean for it to be negative, and thus should be (-26, 6). Assuming this isn't an error, Alexi would not be able to charge him on the following round. Also, you didn't update Alexi's position for round 6, but it probably should be (-25, 7). Finally, because of this slightly farther distance, Alexi is outside of Yasha's 80' charge range and thus is not succecible to being killed in one fell swoop the next turn. I'm also slightly annoyed about that one-shot kill and the following kill steal. Also, Alexi's damage on crits is 2d6 +6 plus 1d8, not 2d6 +3 plus 1d8, Okay, a few things. I changed the map to real coordinates using the cartesian plane. 1) You are correct about Rebeca's position, it should have been -14, -9. 2) You are correct about Yasha, but that is irrevelant as he can charge 80 ft with a 10 ft reach. 3) I only had Rebeca move 5 ft more than she should have, once, maybe twice if i've remapped it out incorrectly. This is also irrevelant and will change nothing. 4)You are correct about Methos position, I was hasty, and it is hard to keep track of 4 gladiators positions you should try it. 5) Alexi can charge Methos at -26, 6, it is posible since Alexi is a -20, 10 when he charges. 6) Alexi is way in charge reach of Yasha at -25, 7, as Yasha should be at-16, 6 after killing Rebeca and so is quite capable of still charging you. 7) I understand that you are annoyed, but that's how the dice roll. 8) I did take that into account. If you check I wrote the damage wrong as 2d6+3+1d8, but when I wrote the rolls I wrote: 5+3+6+8, the 5 and 3 being the 2d6, the +6 being the +6, and the 8 being the 1d8. So all in all, no changes. Sorry about the confusing coordinates, but it is difficult.
Gonbow 08-16-05, 09:17 PM	Sorry to pick at this one fight, but, Round 6: Fungo is especially hungry after tasting Caspian's flesh, so it tries to take another bite (20!+3+2=23 vs AC 16, hit (confirm 12+3+2=17 vs AC 16, yes); Dmg 2d6+6=11) Caspian takes a 5' step back and draws his wand of Cure Light Wounds. Caspian (17,14) 0/25 (disabled), Shield of Faith (ends 31), Divine Favor (ends 12) Fungo (15,16) 7/15, Greater Invisibility (constant and undispellable) The damage is 11, or 11 +6? He had 16 hps at the end of the last turn, thus he'll be at 5 or -1 this turn.. If it's 11 total, he should be able to use his wand like I incorrectly pointed out early ;)
Mind Rogue 08-16-05, 09:41 PM	1.) Seems like you missed by two squares. It's also an 125' move, so perhaps (-14, -10) is the correct spot? 4.) I have had to keep track of four gladiators. I ran a team fight this week. Last week, I ran a monster fight with 6 drow. Now that was annoying. 6.) I am still curious how Yasha can be at (-16, 6) and still be able to attack Rebeca who is at (-14, -9). Even if you goofed with the negatives again and ment for her to be at (-16, -6), Yasha is still 20 ft away, outside of the range of her spiked chain. Also, having to move closer influences the charge she has to make on the next round. 7.) Sorry, that wasn't ment to be directed at you, but rather the evil gremlins who bewitched your dice bag (specifically your d20). 8.) I was wondering about that. Seeing as there was a +3 and a +6 next to each other, though, I wanted to make sure, although Methos had just enough hp that he would have been able to soak it up anyway.
Kaigan 08-16-05, 09:49 PM	1.) Seems like you missed by two squares. It's also an 125' move, so perhaps (-14, -10) is the correct spot? 4.) I have had to keep track of four gladiators. I ran a team fight this week. Last week, I ran a monster fight with 6 drow. Now that was annoying. 6.) I am still curious how Yasha can be at (-16, 6) and still be able to attack Rebeca who is at (-14, -9). Even if you goofed with the negatives again and ment for her to be at (-16, -6), Yasha is still 20 ft away, outside of the range of her spiked chain. Also, having to move closer influences the charge she has to make on the next round. 7.) Sorry, that wasn't ment to be directed at you, but rather the evil gremlins who bewitched your dice bag (specifically your d20). 8.) I was wondering about that. Seeing as there was a +3 and a +6 next to each other, though, I wanted to make sure, although Methos had just enough hp that he would have been able to soak it up anyway. 6) Yasha should be at -16, -6, again sorry about the negatives. However, even if 20 ft away, the diffence of 10 ft does not affect the charge against Alexi. Yasha at -16,-6 is approx. 60-70 ft. Add the ten extra ft, so he is now 70-80 ft away. Well within a charge with a spiked chain. Yeah, the 6 drow would have been difficult. Haha.
TelinArtho 08-16-05, 10:42 PM	Sorry to pick at this one fight, but, The damage is 11, or 11 +6? He had 16 hps at the end of the last turn, thus he'll be at 5 or -1 this turn.. If it's 11 total, he should be able to use his wand like I incorrectly pointed out early ;) Looks like I screwed up. If I get a chance after the 2v2 fight is done - I will finish it up.
NiQil 08-16-05, 10:46 PM	Looks like I screwed up. If I get a chance after the 2v2 fight is done - I will finish it up. No worries...I had resigned myself to losing the match...so if I get it in a revision it's just a feather in my cap....chances are it will just take longer for me to die, though LOL.
TelinArtho 08-17-05, 12:07 AM	2v2 fight is up: Santos (Gonbow) & Alex (Kaigan) vs Talari (Luni) & Rakkar (Xanadu) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6987814) Santos (Gonbow) & Alex (Kaigan) vs Talari (Luni) & Rakkar (Xanadu) - The Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6987827) I'll be signing off soon - but I'll have a chance tomorrow most likely if people find some major errors. Be kind - remember I didn't have a lot of time to look through tactics and such... /d
Gonbow 08-17-05, 12:12 AM	@TelinAnthro Yeah... my tactics were to grapple Talari if Alexi wasn't around helping out. (And apparently, I can flurry attacks while in a grapple, so there is really NO reason not to grapple ^_^) Beating Talari in grapple checks should be easier than hitting her, plus it keeps her from tossing fire at me. So that probably would change things.
TelinArtho 08-17-05, 12:20 AM	@NiQil - fight modified with CLW wand. You used 3 charges. @Gonbow - well, like I said, I didn't have a lot of time. I've got to get some sleep now - so if you find anything else, post it in the next 9 hours or so and I'll look at it then. Changing to grapple when Alex moves away happens in round 7, so this changes rounds 8+ (oh what fun...). See you in the morning all...
Kaigan 08-17-05, 01:34 AM	@Telin, some things. In round 10 I, Alex ended with 10 hp. Then in round 11, I cured for 6, and Rakkar hit for 7. That's a total of -1 hp for me. therefore I'm at 9 hp instead of the 5 you have me at. So I would not die in round 12. Plz fix this.
Altaris13 08-17-05, 07:03 AM	HOLD UP! Man, I wish I'd caught this before. @Luni, thanks for being so diligent in the Prison thread. Balbanes wins vs Mini by zotting her with a Magic Missile Scroll from his magic domain, right? He doesn't have the requisite intelligence score to even cast Magic Missile!
TelinArtho 08-17-05, 08:45 AM	@Kaigan - Gryphos also hit you in round 11, (actually Gryphos critted), dealing 4 damage. That's where the discrepency is.
Pitlords 08-17-05, 08:53 AM	Good work Telin. Thanks for taking over the fights!
Gonbow 08-17-05, 09:09 AM	@TelinAnthro With the current result, Santos also used a Tattoo of Vigor and gains 80 more gold for making money with his Profession: Cook. (Take 10 +10 modfier = 20 x 4 (ECL) = 80) Also, in round 8, when Talari hits Santos with the Produce Flame, his Spell Resistance should kick in. (It's only SR 7, but any chance is a chance I'm willing to take, hey? ;))
Kaigan 08-17-05, 09:48 AM	@Telin: One last thing, don't we, Alex and Santos get a bonus to gp and xp since Rakkar brought in his horse?
TelinArtho 08-17-05, 10:07 AM	@Gonbow - didn't notice he was making money - sorry about that. I'll also add in the SR. @Kaigan - you're right - I knew I forgot something. Your GP won't change though because it is capped at 400 (well +80 for Santos because he was cooking...) @Pitlords - thanks. Fight rewritten is coming up in the next few minutes.
TelinArtho 08-17-05, 10:13 AM	Fight is up.
TelinArtho 08-17-05, 10:29 AM	@Pitlords - As much as Tlanth would have liked to win against Yoriko - he did lose. Just figured I'd point it out so it gets fixed on the Characters page. Plus I'm sure Mind Rogue would like to see her record with at least one win for that character. /d
King Uther 08-17-05, 10:37 AM	@Altaris It was a mistake I forgot to edit before posting him as ready. It will be corrected.
Altaris13 08-17-05, 10:41 AM	@Altaris It was a mistake I forgot to edit before posting him as ready. It will be corrected. :D Yeah, I figured as much. But I had to try a last-ditch effort, just in case.
Mind Rogue 08-17-05, 12:29 PM	@Pitlords - As much as Tlanth would have liked to win against Yoriko - he did lose. Just figured I'd point it out so it gets fixed on the Characters page. Plus I'm sure Mind Rogue would like to see her record with at least one win for that character. /d That would be nice. Particularly after another one of mine lost because of a fluke of the dice.
Pauper 08-17-05, 04:24 PM	If the original result was unliekly, this one is even slightly more so; like you said, getting beat in melee by a mage... but the both of you greatly underestimated him, anyways ;) Heck, even I underestimated him, and he's my character! -- Pauper