Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 08-01-07, 10:33 AM	Fights of the Week: August 1st Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindwandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool used to suffice until it got taken down without giving us proper notification... the Nerve Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Recent News and Developments Current discussions in the council are still up for debate. Lighting effects are going to be added next week! If you don't have a light source or the ability to see in the dark already, it would be wise to pick something up to help with that, and if you're vulnerable to bright lights, it would be wise to pick up some way to shield yourself from it. Denth has come! Who will be his first victims? Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
Erithmu 08-01-07, 10:42 AM	Wasn't lighting scheduled to be added this week?
TelinArtho 08-01-07, 10:55 AM	Ah good question... I'll look it up and see.
MindWandererB 08-01-07, 01:16 PM	Yeah, it was. Forgot about that, actually. Pairings are going to be up a little late today anyway (by 2-3 hours), so I'll have it all done then. Edit: Actually, I take that back. Lighting next week. I just don't have time to do it properly today. My apologies.
Zevox 08-01-07, 01:23 PM	Thats probably for the best. I forgot, too, and if those of us most involved in getting it put in and most eager for it to be put in forgot, its probably that everyone else did, too, so another week of forewarning is probably a good thing. So, note to everyone: Lighting effects are going to be added next week! If you don't have a light source or the ability to see in the dark already, it would be wise to pick something up to help with that, and if you're vulnerable to bright lights, it would be wise to pick up some way to shield yourself from it. Zevox
waywreth 08-01-07, 01:38 PM	If you don't have a light source or the ability to see in the dark already, it would be wise to pick something up to help with that, and if you're vulnerable to bright lights, it would be wise to pick up some way to shield yourself from it.[/b] Zevox That could be an issue for any human or orc in 3FC.
TelinArtho 08-01-07, 01:51 PM	@Waywreth - since it is a rules change it is not out of the question for a training hall adjustment.
SoulLord 08-01-07, 02:02 PM	is the lighting valid at all league levels?
stimpydoda 08-01-07, 02:24 PM	I hope my message was recieved, but just incase; I can't run any fights for awhile. Sorry.
MindWandererB 08-01-07, 02:59 PM	is the lighting valid at all league levels? I haven't written the rule yet, but it will apply to ECLs 4+ (maybe 5+).
waywreth 08-01-07, 03:31 PM	@Waywreth - since it is a rules change it is not out of the question for a training hall adjustment. Poor Sauro is going to be harassed by hordes of humans buying torches and sunrods!
TelinArtho 08-01-07, 03:54 PM	By my count, it looks like we're going to be short some pitlords again this week. Approximately 36 gladiators in the arena and 7 miniquestors (though only 1 without a known QL) and 3 questors (though - all with known QLs). We have pitlords for 10 fights plus one max pitlord. If anyone thinks they can pick up a fight or two - I'm sure Zevox will be happy about it :)
Airwhale 08-01-07, 04:10 PM	I can take a single, CR:3 fight.
Eamane 08-01-07, 04:52 PM	I can pick up a fight as well.
Callix 08-01-07, 04:54 PM	What the hell. I'll do one, this once.
MindWandererB 08-01-07, 08:28 PM	Thanks to those who volunteered to help, pairings are done! Credits: Erithmu F2 Q2 Q-1 A-2 lonewolf F2 Q2 A-4 Malither76 F1 Q2 Salrantol F3 TelinArtho F5 G1 Q2 Q-1 A-1 templer10 F4 A-2 Yitzi F2 A-2 Zevox F5 A1 G1 Airwhale F1 Callix F1 Eamane F1 MindWandererB A2 G1 A-1 MitzaVolchenko C3 NiQil A1 A-3 TheMagister G1 A-2 SauroGrenom A1 G1 Vathelokai G1 Q4 Key: F=Fight, Q=Quest, C=Campaign, G=Guildmaster, A=Admin or Active Characters
Erithmu 08-01-07, 08:32 PM	For those of us who are outside the elder/guildmaster loop, are we going to get some details on what is going on w/ the Denth attacks and how they are going to be run, or is that going to be posted w/ Guildlords?
NiQil 08-01-07, 08:37 PM	For those of us who are outside the elder/guildmaster loop, are we going to get some details on what is going on w/ the Denth attacks and how they are going to be run, or is that going to be posted w/ Guildlords? I got news for ya...being in the loop doesn't give you any more info....at least it didn't for me...
MindWandererB 08-01-07, 08:43 PM	Guildlords will take care of it. <nudge, nudge> I think Zevox has a better idea of what's going on than I do, at this point. Although Telin is the mastermind.
Vathelokai 08-01-07, 09:15 PM	Yeah; I'm out of the loop as well. Though I suspect I'll be glad I reserved all my guild actions for the week.
Salrantol 08-01-07, 09:54 PM	I'll have to keep in mind that when the pairingsmaker searches for "August 1", it'll also find August 15... That's OK, though, I think I can get tactics done for Kilor this week.
NiQil 08-01-07, 10:30 PM	@ Yitzi: Tactics for Tiris Rush sent via PM @ Yitzi: Tactics for War Monster sent via PM @ Airwhale: Tactics for Apocalypse sent via PM @ TelinArtho: Tactics for Juggernaut sent via PM @ templer10: Tactics for Sabretooth sent via PM
Korone 08-01-07, 10:39 PM	Last opponent Yakov fougth last fight: Arbin Softfoot. Opponent he is facing this week Arbin Softfoot. On first fight, sixth fight and last fight (although in a FFA), Atemu has fought: Daren Legrad. Opponent he is facing this week: Daren Legrad. Wow, what the heck is wrong with the pairings ? Some littles troubles on diversification?
TelinArtho 08-01-07, 10:42 PM	Korone - it is not out of the question to ask for a fix on the pairings in some cases. If the fight is in a different map though - it frequently can be a completely different fight. Still - this is a game that we all want to enjoy - so if you keep getting paired up with the same people - speak up (here) and ask for a fix.
TelinArtho 08-01-07, 10:44 PM	Guildlords will take care of it. <nudge, nudge> I think Zevox has a better idea of what's going on than I do, at this point. Although Telin is the mastermind. If Zevox doesn't offer the details about it - I will certainly be happy to provide them. As to who knew ahead of time - it was only the absolute minimum: Zevox (because he's guildlords) and MWB (because he's GM and pitlords). It should be known that the initial proposal was even restricted to just Zevox...
Eamane 08-01-07, 10:52 PM	Speaking of diversification, it seems to be Eamane vs Niqil week, I get to draw not one, but two of his characters to fight my two. Well, at least one has an okay shot at winning. @Yitzi: Tactics for Kykal sent. @templer10: Caster on caster is a little more complicated, I'll have tactics sent either late tonight or tomorrow. @Callix & Dr.Funk: I'm a newbie pitlord, so it's in your interest to get your tactics in sooner rather than later so that any mistakes I make can be corrected before next week's editing deadline, hey? ;) p.s: Denth thing is nifty, makes me almost think like I'm in a giant campaign! Like some kind of living, evolving fantasy city... heyyy.... >.>
Yitzi 08-01-07, 11:03 PM	Last opponent Yakov fougth last fight: Arbin Softfoot. Opponent he is facing this week Arbin Softfoot. On first fight, sixth fight and last fight (although in a FFA), Atemu has fought: Daren Legrad. Opponent he is facing this week: Daren Legrad. Wow, what the heck is wrong with the pairings ? Some littles troubles on diversification? And I'm even more annoyed, as those 2 characters of yours are the toughest opponents I've had for those 2 characters of mine.
Zevox 08-01-07, 11:07 PM	Guildlords will take care of it. <nudge, nudge> I think Zevox has a better idea of what's going on than I do, at this point. Although Telin is the mastermind. Yeah, I'll explain it when I post the Guild Actions. My apologies for being so late with it, but I had to work this evening (4-10 pm, my time, and I wound up working late), as I often do. Should be up shortly. Zevox
Korone 08-01-07, 11:07 PM	Well, I didn't really looked at the maps though, it do give a different battle though. It's not that I don't want to fight these characters again, its just.. a bit repetitive in such a row.
Korone 08-01-07, 11:12 PM	And I'm even more annoyed, as those 2 characters of yours are the toughest opponents I've had for those 2 characters of mine. Yeah, well, Daren and Atemu seems pretty much equal if you ask me. It's the most interesting fights Atemu had, in my opinion. Atemu won that last fight with Daren by short.
Vathelokai 08-01-07, 11:16 PM	@Malither76: tactics for Denshi vs. Lorian sent.
MindWandererB 08-02-07, 12:08 AM	I'll have to keep in mind that when the pairingsmaker searches for "August 1", it'll also find August 15... That's OK, though, I think I can get tactics done for Kilor this week. Actually, I can correct that if you'd like. Liara can easily fight a monster instead. The pairings maker isn't as automated as you think: the mistake is purely my own.
Zevox 08-02-07, 12:16 AM	Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs. Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs. Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) : TelinArtho [Sewer] [All-vs-All] Aw damn. Eraca just had a three-person FFA for her first fight of her cycle, and this one is in one of her least favorite maps. Just what I need... @ My Players & Pitlord - A forewarning, my work schedule has me booked pretty solid for the second half of this week. I'm spending most of tomorrow and Saturday at work, and half the afternoon and all the evening of Friday too, and I'll have no clue what my schedule will be for next week until tomorrow. Friday morning and Saturday evening I'll have some time, but the former will most likely be mostly spent on writing tactics for Eraca. In other words, I may be very hard-pressed for time on running fights this week, so try to be patient with me on those, and Eraca's tactics may be late if I can't come up with satisfactory ones Friday morning. Zevox
templer10 08-02-07, 01:24 AM	Actually, I can correct that if you'd like. Liara can easily fight a monster instead. The pairings maker isn't as automated as you think: the mistake is purely my own. errr - i mind - bloody monster fights...
Salrantol 08-02-07, 06:43 AM	Like I said, I can write up tactics for her, it's no problem.
Callix 08-02-07, 07:13 AM	@Airwhale, Eamane: Tactics for Ralein and Rennae sent. Ralein gets a full caster, and Rennae gets the grappler. Of course. @Airwhale, The Dread Dormammu: If I don't have tacics before Friday arvo Australian time (Thursday evening US), it'll be at least Sunday before I can run the fight. You have been warned.
TheMagister 08-02-07, 07:20 AM	Rubicanti[ECL 8] (TheMagister) vs. Enoch the Prophet (Salrantol) and Razorfang (Macbrea) : Zevox [Forest] [Inter-League] Now there's an interesting matchup. Good melee and excellent defensive magic on the team side vs. great offense but easy dispellability on the single side. Plenty of buff time because of the map. Man, in the cavern this'd be a totally different story, wouldn't it? I'll be working on these tactics probably all day today. TM
Salrantol 08-02-07, 07:45 AM	@Zevox: Tactics sent for the fight for which TM will be working on tactics all day. The team also has the advantage of simplicity. Not hard to write tactics either to be Razorfang or to work with him.
templer10 08-02-07, 10:39 AM	@Zevox: Tactics sent for the fight for which TM will be working on tactics all day. The team also has the advantage of simplicity. Not hard to write tactics either to be Razorfang or to work with him. "run, bite" pretty much sum it up....
TelinArtho 08-02-07, 12:50 PM	Sdentch fights off a nightmarish apparition of an Advanced Elite Half-Blue Dragon Barbazu in A Vivid Dream
TheMagister 08-02-07, 01:02 PM	@Zevox - tactics for Rubi sent. All hail the dice.
hogarth 08-02-07, 01:10 PM	Sdentch fights off a nightmarish apparition of an Advanced Elite Half-Blue Dragon Barbazu in A Vivid Dream No offense, but you gave it no equipment out of pity? How can I get a "monster pity" clause written into my characters' contracts? :D
TelinArtho 08-02-07, 01:15 PM	Actually the real reason I gave it no equipment because I didn't feel it fit as well with the monstrous beast. In addition it is one of the first times I have done an advanced and templated and elite creature before - so I wanted to gauge its strength based on that. And for the record - Sdentch barely survived - had the rolls gone a little differently, the story would be a very different one.
templer10 08-02-07, 02:41 PM	Lonewolf - tactics for longshow sent by PM - should be intresting.
hogarth 08-02-07, 02:49 PM	Actually the real reason I gave it no equipment because I didn't feel it fit as well with the monstrous beast. In addition it is one of the first times I have done an advanced and templated and elite creature before - so I wanted to gauge its strength based on that. And for the record - Sdentch barely survived - had the rolls gone a little differently, the story would be a very different one. Hey, I'm just saying that there has been a lot of loud defenders of the principle that "equipment is part of a creature's CR". I agree -- an equipped monster would probably have been too hard. That's why I'd like to get rid of mandatory monster fights altogether!
TelinArtho 08-02-07, 03:17 PM	Well, I remember the monster fights that we had before they had equipment and it was just plain sad. Monster fights were akin to auto-wins for players so often and many players had their higher level characters against monsters so often (because of fewer players here), that it was downright absurd. I don't subscribe necessarily to "equipment is part of a creature's CR" - but at the same time, in this environment, the monsters need some equipment in order to remain competitive. Honestly though, the monster in question would have had the following: Glaive +1 (2300gp) [Ma] Silver Glaive (488gp) [Ma] Cold Iron Glaive (316gp) Bracers of Armor +2 (4000gp) 5 Javelins (5gp) -- possibly some more in silver and cold iron Gloves of Dexterity +2 (4000gp) Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2000gp) Ring of Protection +1 (2000gp) Potion of Resist Energy - Sonic 20 (700gp) Potion of Cure Serious Wounds (750gp) Net increase on attacks is +1 to hit and dmg (with glaive only - only one attack); Net AC increase is 4. The barbazu would have still missed on its initial AoO (the only attack with the glaive). As for attacks on the barbazu, Sdentch would have missed one attack in round 4 (21 less damage) and 2 attacks in round 6 (47 less damage). That said, Sdentch still would have dealt 152 out of the creatures' 135+20 hp. That certainly doesn't make it overpowering by any means. It still leaves the fight mostly decided by the dice - the initial attack by Sdentch (rolling a 4) was probably the most significant of the fight overall anyway. Meh - maybe I should've just given it equipment so I wouldn't even need to defend my choice...
templer10 08-02-07, 03:17 PM	ZEVOX - elrick's tactics are sent.
TheMagister 08-02-07, 03:29 PM	And not knowing the creature's AC won that fight for me. Had I known it was only 23, I'd've been power attacking for 5 (50-50, baby!) the whole way, and would've missed nearly all my shots. Good GRIEF, that thing hurt. 36 str?!
MindWandererB 08-02-07, 03:52 PM	Lonewolf - tactics for longshow sent by PM - should be intresting. Are you kidding!? Kervan's tactics are out as well, and I give myself odds comparable to those of a snowball's in hell.
templer10 08-02-07, 04:10 PM	Are you kidding!? Kervan's tactics are out as well, and I give myself odds comparable to those of a snowball's in hell. lol- i dont like to encourage the DICE GODS to play games with me... well - that max augmanted dispel psionics i had done probably lowered your chances a "bit" (+17 to dispell checks is just wrong...) to get rid of possible spell ressitence also- i finally have a chance to use enlarge power- and men that thing rocks in large arenas. (energy missile from 380 feet away while flying...).
MindWandererB 08-02-07, 04:25 PM	lol- i dont like to encourage the DICE GODS to play games with me... well - that max augmanted dispel psionics i had done probably lowered your chances a "bit" (+17 to dispell checks is just wrong...) to get rid of possible spell ressitence also- i finally have a chance to use enlarge power- and men that thing rocks in large arenas. (energy missile from 380 feet away while flying...). Pppht. The dice gods wouldn't have to just play with you--they'd have to pick you up, turn you over, and give you a spanking. I'll be lucky to survive three rounds post-contact. Edit: Tactics for Maya have been sent as well. There's a point in the game at which straight archers are quite dangerous, and Lightwolf is at that point. Scary. Edit 2: Zevox, I need the setup for Monster vs. Coalition Psion, when you get a chance.
Zevox 08-03-07, 01:00 AM	@ My Players & Pitlord - A forewarning, my work schedule has me booked pretty solid for the second half of this week. I'm spending most of tomorrow and Saturday at work, and half the afternoon and all the evening of Friday too, and I'll have no clue what my schedule will be for next week until tomorrow. Friday morning and Saturday evening I'll have some time, but the former will most likely be mostly spent on writing tactics for Eraca. In other words, I may be very hard-pressed for time on running fights this week, so try to be patient with me on those, and Eraca's tactics may be late if I can't come up with satisfactory ones Friday morning. I must regretfully add to this that my work schedule next week is about as uncooperative as it can be. Long story short, I have to work every day from now through Monday, so Tuesday will be the only day this whole fight-week I actually have free. I'll try to get as much done tomorrow morning/afternoon, Saturday evening, and at nights as I possibly can, but I'll be hard-pressed to have all my fights done on time, and the odds of me having time to edit any of them are slim to none (where slim is a value between 0.01 and 0.1 - out of 100). Edit 2: Zevox, I need the setup for Monster vs. Coalition Psion, when you get a chance. I'll try to get that up tomorrow morning, after I write Eraca's tactics. Zevox
Rauul 08-03-07, 01:32 AM	I must regretfully add to this that my work schedule next week is about as uncooperative as it can be. Long story short, I have to work every day from now through Monday, so Tuesday will be the only day this whole fight-week I actually have free. I'll try to get as much done tomorrow morning/afternoon, Saturday evening, and at nights as I possibly can, but I'll be hard-pressed to have all my fights done on time, and the odds of me having time to edit any of them are slim to none (where slim is a value between 0.01 and 0.1 - out of 100). I'll try to get that up tomorrow morning, after I write Eraca's tactics. Zevox Zevox, if you want i can take one or Both of the ecl 6 fights off your hands (may help you with your work load) and won't even ask for the credit.. you can have it (since i want you to have Nimbus up and running so Corrupter can corrupt him :).. Just a thought to help you out..
Zevox 08-03-07, 11:50 AM	Zevox, if you want i can take one or Both of the ecl 6 fights off your hands (may help you with your work load) and won't even ask for the credit.. you can have it (since i want you to have Nimbus up and running so Corrupter can corrupt him :).. Just a thought to help you out.. I may just end up taking you up on that, but for now I'd like to at least try and get everything done myself, thanks. ...but speaking of that, @ MWB, you sure you're calculating my credits right? The current list says I have 37 total, but I could've sworn I had 33 last week, and this week earns me another 7, so I think I should have 40. Zevox
Yitzi 08-03-07, 12:45 PM	MWB, what made you think Lightwolf would allow Maya within range of him. At 30 vs. 20 speed, she's got no chance of catching him. Pretty much your only hope is that Lightwolf runs out of arrows by using them on Vilas (and templer10 doesn't decide to improvise tactics for Lightwolf when it becomes apparent that he needs a 20 to hit Vilas.)
Zevox 08-03-07, 01:15 PM	@ MWB - The Coalition operative is up here. Let me know if you can't create the Half-Giants yourself and I'll whip up some as quickly as I'm able. Zevox
MindWandererB 08-03-07, 03:05 PM	MWB, what made you think Lightwolf would allow Maya within range of him. At 30 vs. 20 speed, she's got no chance of catching him. Pretty much your only hope is that Lightwolf runs out of arrows by using them on Vilas (and templer10 doesn't decide to improvise tactics for Lightwolf when it becomes apparent that he needs a 20 to hit Vilas.) Well, there are some tactical errors there. For instance, everyone starts the battle flat-footed, which means no hiding. Since you didn't say anything about whether you needed a 20 to hit Vilas, there should be no improvization there, which buys Maya a lot of time. Also, Lightwolf isn't so much faster than Maya that he can single-move and shoot to keep away from her being able to run to base him, which means he'll be spending a lot of rounds running, during which he loses his Dex bonus to Vilas's attacks. Any round he doesn't run, he gets attacked with a crystal shard. And if he is based, he'll have to take an AoO on top of that if he wants to get away. Besides, I did some calculations, and realized that there was no way I was going to win an archery duel. This strategy seemed my best bet. Oh, and @templer, if you're reading this: Vilas does indeed have a dorje of vigor. Check his equipment.
Yitzi 08-03-07, 03:51 PM	Well, there are some tactical errors there. For instance, everyone starts the battle flat-footed, which means no hiding. Where does it say that? Since you didn't say anything about whether you needed a 20 to hit Vilas, there should be no improvization there, which buys Maya a lot of time. Depends if templer10 improvises when it's clear that a given tactic isn't working. Improvisation is by definition not in the tactics. Also, Lightwolf isn't so much faster than Maya that he can single-move and shoot to keep away from her being able to run to base him, which means he'll be spending a lot of rounds running, during which he loses his Dex bonus to Vilas's attacks. Or would, if your tactics included Vilas readying to attack him while he's running...once Lightwolf begins shooting, he'll go total defense. Any round he doesn't run, he gets attacked with a crystal shard. Unless he's far enough anyway. Remember, he has 1.5X Maya's speed.
TelinArtho 08-03-07, 03:57 PM	Arbin Softfoot (Yitzi) vs Yakov (Korone) is up.
TelinArtho 08-03-07, 04:00 PM	I still have not received tactics for Isaiah Shar (xZerasx). I won't be running the fight until Monday at this point anyway - but do make sure you get those tactics in (in case I get a sudden burst to run my remaining fights on Saturday or something).
templer10 08-03-07, 04:19 PM	Well, there are some tactical errors there. For instance, everyone starts the battle flat-footed, which means no hiding. Since you didn't say anything about whether you needed a 20 to hit Vilas, there should be no improvization there, which buys Maya a lot of time. Also, Lightwolf isn't so much faster than Maya that he can single-move and shoot to keep away from her being able to run to base him, which means he'll be spending a lot of rounds running, during which he loses his Dex bonus to Vilas's attacks. Any round he doesn't run, he gets attacked with a crystal shard. And if he is based, he'll have to take an AoO on top of that if he wants to get away. Besides, I did some calculations, and realized that there was no way I was going to win an archery duel. This strategy seemed my best bet. Oh, and @templer, if you're reading this: Vilas does indeed have a dorje of vigor. Check his equipment. well both MWB and yitzi should know by now i dont improvise unless something is clearly broken in someone's tactics - i dont fix tactical errors. and didnt notice vila's dorja earlier so ill use that but i assume there is some kind of erroers in the tactics submitted by you since by the tactics you want to the drop the crystal shard dorja at the start and then use it when your a couple hundred feet away....
MindWandererB 08-03-07, 05:03 PM	Where does it say that?Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.You can't take any actions before your initiative comes up. Until you've had a turn, you're not hiding. Yitzi]Or would, if your tactics included Vilas readying to attack him while he's running...once Lightwolf begins shooting, he'll go total defense.AC penalties like this last until your next action. If you run, and Vilas attacks the next round, you have no Dex bonus. Of course, if you've attacked him once, he will be in total defense. Unless he's far enough anyway. Remember, he has 1.5X Maya's speed.Yeah... well, we'll see how it plays out. You do have the edge, I think, but this was the only way I could think of where I'd have a chance. and didnt notice vila's dorja earlier so ill use that but i assume there is some kind of erroers in the tactics submitted by you since by the tactics you want to the drop the crystal shard dorja at the start and then use it when your a couple hundred feet away....Oops, you're quite right. I'd originally had Maya handing off her vigor dorje, as you inferred. Clearly you got the idea.
templer10 08-03-07, 05:36 PM	Lightwolf VS maya is done and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13292618&postcount=1171) - men that bow of lightwolf is nasty (once he finally got off his ass and started to use it).
Korone 08-03-07, 06:12 PM	Arbin Softfoot (Yitzi) vs Yakov (Korone) is up. 44 rounds ? Damn.
Yitzi 08-03-07, 06:34 PM	You can't take any actions before your initiative comes up. Until you've had a turn, you're not hiding. Except using the hide skill is not an action. In any case, Lightwolf won, so I won't press the issue.
Erithmu 08-03-07, 06:49 PM	*Checks inbox* *Looks in Malither76's Direction* *Taps Watch* "Bueller?"
MindWandererB 08-03-07, 06:50 PM	Except using the hide skill is not an action. In any case, Lightwolf won, so I won't press the issue. Close, though. You can at least appreciate that my plan had some merit. had I phrased things a little differently, or packed Vilas with some healing options, I might have pulled it off. @templer: Maya's Craft income is wrong. That's what it was before she levelled. The correct amount is on her sheet.
templer10 08-03-07, 07:02 PM	Close, though. You can at least appreciate that my plan had some merit. had I phrased things a little differently, or packed Vilas with some healing options, I might have pulled it off. @templer: Maya's Craft income is wrong. That's what it was before she levelled. The correct amount is on her sheet. what made it so close imho is that Yitzi didnt play for his stregth and simpy shot you full of holes right form the start and put in a contingency - to use true strike 1 round before you got to crystal shard range then do a true strike manyshot at you - those 2d8+2d6+14-dmg alone has an avrage damage of 28. which combined with likely hits before that almost certenly would have killed you.
NiQil 08-03-07, 09:33 PM	@ anyone who feels like guessing... So I'm trying to figure out what Airwhale did with the Apocalypse/Rennae Longhollow fight.....5 rounds into it, it intersects with another fight that Airwhale appears to have run....except that it is for his own character against someone else. It also appears to be an old fight, as the pairings this week don't match the characters there. @ Airwhale: Might wanna look into that. Also, any power manifested from a stone takes a standard action....except when the manifesting time is longer than that. Then you go with the normal manifesting time, unless the item description specifically overrides this requirement by making the manifesting time shorter (which stones do not). Activating a psionic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. The manifesting time of a power is the time required to activate the same power in an item, whether it’s a power stone, a dorje, or a psionic tattoo, unless the item description specifically states otherwise. So there will need to be some adjustments to the 5 rounds of the fight that you already have there before the other fight breaks in there.
Airwhale 08-03-07, 11:28 PM	It's a work in progress. I'm using one of Zevox's fights as a template, and just erasing the parts of his fight as I roll and write the actions of the arena. I'll post here when everything is done... I'd finish it now but I'm running to dinner. You can look now if you like, the combat part is all done, though I'd like to get another pitlord to look at everything before I officially call it done. Airwhale
Airwhale 08-04-07, 03:00 AM	Apocalypse (NiQil) vs. Rennae Longhollow (Callix) : Airwhale is done Setup Fight! @ Airwhale: Any power manifested from a stone takes a standard action....except when the manifesting time is longer than that. Then you go with the normal manifesting time, unless the item description specifically overrides this requirement by making the manifesting time shorter (which stones do not). You are right, I beleve. If Callix or NiQil requests, I will redo from round 4 onward, reusing rolls from the first fight as appropriate. I doubt it will affect the outcome. If you want me to re-run this, please let me know before monday at 5pm EST I was really confused by this, though.. If you read the SRD, it does look like it does say that a stone always takes a standard action to activate. Here is the text I was looking at: Using a stone’s stored power after addressing the stone requires holding the stone and willing the power’s manifestation, as if manifesting a power normally (a standard action). Activating a power stone is subject to disruption just as manifesting a power normally would be. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/powerStones.htm
Salrantol 08-04-07, 07:40 AM	@My Miniquestors: I should have a lot of time tomorrow to run MQs, so if you don't already, try to have a few rounds or so of tactics set up and maybe you'll finish off your foes.
templer10 08-04-07, 12:27 PM	dunerunner vs mohmat is done and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13303590&postcount=1176)
Erithmu 08-04-07, 07:22 PM	Gaston vs Gareth Someone didn't send tactics.
Yitzi 08-04-07, 11:15 PM	what made it so close imho is that Yitzi didnt play for his stregth and simpy shot you full of holes right form the start and put in a contingency - to use true strike 1 round before you got to crystal shard range then do a true strike manyshot at you - those 2d8+2d6+14-dmg alone has an avrage damage of 28. which combined with likely hits before that almost certenly would have killed you. The thing is, I wasn't really expecting MWB to use the tactics he did (which is why he did it), if I had said to focus on Maya if Vilas was takign defensive action, I might have won by more. As for true strike manyshot, it's risky as true strike lasts only 1 round and manyshot needs to be within 30'.
templer10 08-05-07, 01:42 PM	daren vs atemu is done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13313699&postcount=1180) - the wand of MM won.
Korone 08-05-07, 01:47 PM	Korone – I don’t know why on earth you thought he would close to melee when you are much better then him at mlelee and he had a wand of MM and you needed DOUBLE 20's ot hit him with even minimal buffs. Dunno either... I managed to completely miss that freaking wand in his inventory.
Yitzi 08-05-07, 02:54 PM	Dunno either... I managed to completely miss that freaking wand in his inventory. I hate it when that happens-nice to have it work for me for once.
Eamane 08-05-07, 03:09 PM	I'm sure the answer to this question is buried in one of the core books in an extremely obvious place.. but I'm just not finding it. When exactly during the initiative count do spells wear off? Right before the casters initiative (and actions)? Right after? At count 0 (right before the next round?) The specific situation is this: I have a spell causing someone to be stunned for two rounds. r1: Spellcaster casts, target is stunned and loses their action. r2: Spellcaster does their thing, target is stunned and does nothing. r3: Spellcaster does their thing, target is... ? My gut tells me that being stunned for two rounds shouldn't cause you to lose three actions, but I want to double check before proceeding with my fight.
MindWandererB 08-05-07, 03:14 PM	I'm sure the answer to this question is buried in one of the core books in an extremely obvious place.. but I'm just not finding it. When exactly during the initiative count do spells wear off? Right before the casters initiative (and actions)? Right after? At count 0 (right before the next round?) The specific situation is this: I have a spell causing someone to be stunned for two rounds. r1: Spellcaster casts, target is stunned and loses their action. r2: Spellcaster does their thing, target is stunned and does nothing. r3: Spellcaster does their thing, target is... ? My gut tells me that being stunned for two rounds shouldn't cause you to lose three actions, but I want to double check before proceeding with my fight. Your gut is right. Effects with a duration in rounds wear off at the beginning of the action of the effect's initiatior (or, if that character's initiative changed, right before that character would have gone had their initiative not changed). I remember it by thinking about Stunning Fist: if a monk uses Stunning Fist successfully, the target is stunned until the beginning of the monk's next action, so if they attack the same target again, they're not still flat-footed, but the monk can try to stun them again if they want. So in your example, the target acts normally in r3 unless the caster did something else nasty to them in the meantime.
Eamane 08-05-07, 03:38 PM	Ralein vs Vivi is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13314735&postcount=1182). I'm sure I made a mistake or two (I pointed one of them that I'm aware at in the comments section) but there you go, chalk it up to newbness and I'll get better later ;) Generally I'd also write a short story, but I'm feeling uninspired, perhaps later.
NiQil 08-05-07, 04:23 PM	@ Yitzi: I see that Tiris vs Rolf is up (though you have not made a post saying it is complete yet). I have noticed an issue. In both rounds 6 and 7, Rolf is 5 ft stepping away from base contact to fire his rapid shots. However, since Tiris is enlarged, he has reach, and each of those attacks should provoke attacks of opportunity. Given the amount of damage each of those attacks could inflict, I would appreciate if you would add those in. Also, I am curious as to why you had me waste rounds moving around the hedges instead of going over them. Being enlarged, with only 5 ft high hedges, at worst I would need a climb or jump check to clear them, and at best I am higher than they are and can walk right over them, or even through them. There is nothing in the map rules that states these hedges are impassible (or that they block movement)...only that they provide total cover if you hide behind them. Obstacles: Like difficult terrain, obstacles can hamper movement. If an obstacle hampers movement but doesn’t completely block it each obstructed square or obstacle between squares counts as 2 squares of movement. You must pay this cost to cross the barrier, in addition to the cost to move into the square on the other side. If you don’t have sufficient movement to cross the barrier and move into the square on the other side, you can’t cross the barrier. Some obstacles may also require a skill check to cross. On the other hand, some obstacles block movement entirely. A character can’t move through a blocking obstacle. Flying and incorporeal creatures can avoid most obstacles
Callix 08-05-07, 06:16 PM	Eamane: Rennae doesn't have the Diplomacy skill for the Political Career skill package. As such, she gains no bonus xp or gp for the fight. The listed bonus only applies to crafting free/full activities.
Eamane 08-05-07, 06:48 PM	Eamane: Rennae doesn't have the Diplomacy skill for the Political Career skill package. As such, she gains no bonus xp or gp for the fight. The listed bonus only applies to crafting free/full activities. Err.... right? I didn't give you any bonus xp or gp. I included your free action makings in your total gp earnings for the fight, as per the (included) tag on the free action.
Yitzi 08-05-07, 10:11 PM	@ Yitzi: I see that Tiris vs Rolf is up (though you have not made a post saying it is complete yet). I have noticed an issue. In both rounds 6 and 7, Rolf is 5 ft stepping away from base contact to fire his rapid shots. However, since Tiris is enlarged, he has reach, and each of those attacks should provoke attacks of opportunity. Given the amount of damage each of those attacks could inflict, I would appreciate if you would add those in. Whoops, forgot long and tall are different. Also, I am curious as to why you had me waste rounds moving around the hedges instead of going over them. Being enlarged, with only 5 ft high hedges, at worst I would need a climb or jump check to clear them, and at best I am higher than they are and can walk right over them, or even through them. There is nothing in the map rules that states these hedges are impassible (or that they block movement)...only that they provide total cover if you hide behind them. MWB said a few months ago he'd be inclined not to allow climb, so I'll go with him. As for jump, I'll let you do it with DC 20. Battle adjusted. Sum total of changes in results: 1 less arrow used by Rolf.
Zevox 08-06-07, 02:04 AM	Lady Liara vs Kilor Mintolo (Seriously guys, clean those sheets up. I had to spend 20 minutes cutting size tags out of them just to fit that in one post after I finished it, and for a level 6 fight that only went 15 rounds that just crazy.) ...and Elric Flamebrother vs Malik of Black Robe, such as it is. Zevox
templer10 08-06-07, 02:07 AM	Lady Liara vs Kilor Mintolo (Seriously guys, clean those sheets up. I had to spend 20 minutes cutting size tags out of them just to fit that in one post after I finished it, and for a level 6 fight that only went 15 rounds that just crazy.) ...and Elric Flamebrother vs Malik of Black Robe, such as it is. Zevox ty for the run - and it's not that i dont WANT to clean up the sheets i only have serius amounts of time to do so in teh weekends and sometimes sunday/monday and fights arent done then usually.
Callix 08-06-07, 03:06 AM	Darfu Spell-Axe vs Snaga is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13316356&postcount=1183), and has been for quite a while. Sorry about the delay, but I was in a rush and didn't have time to post this earlier.
Rauul 08-06-07, 05:52 AM	Lady Liara vs Kilor Mintolo (Seriously guys, clean those sheets up. I had to spend 20 minutes cutting size tags out of them just to fit that in one post after I finished it, and for a level 6 fight that only went 15 rounds that just crazy.) ...and Elric Flamebrother vs Malik of Black Robe, such as it is. Zevox Wait till you get a Corrupter Fight... May have to move his undead... and know i will have to Do something when i start adding all his followers from leadership..
Salrantol 08-06-07, 06:49 AM	Boy, I'm starting to wonder what I was on when I wrote my tactics for Kilor--I think I forgot *everything* I wanted to remember to mention, such as hitting the horse with the energy missiles...oh well....
hogarth 08-06-07, 09:39 AM	ty for the run - and it's not that i dont WANT to clean up the sheets i only have serius amounts of time to do so in teh weekends and sometimes sunday/monday and fights arent done then usually. Note that there's a button that will instantly remove all text formatting from your post (if you want to use the sledgehammer approach vs. the surgical approach). That's what I ended up using for Reginald Molehusband's sheet.
TelinArtho 08-06-07, 10:12 AM	@templer10 and anyone else who might have limited time to apply major formatting changes: I strognly suggest keeping a text file copy of your character offline. This way, as things are changing, you can make corrections during the time when you do have the time to update. This also allows more precision in applying massive updates (such as removing all tags and their related tags) Obviously - this still wouldn't help someone who has a more public computer (say in an i-net cafe or in a public library) - but for a personal computer, it makes a whole lot more sense. And as an aside, it allows you to work with your characters while the boards are down...
waywreth 08-06-07, 10:35 AM	@templer10 and anyone else who might have limited time to apply major formatting changes: I strognly suggest keeping a text file copy of your character offline. Telin brings up a great point here. I keep an archive of all my characters in a very basic .txt format (go notepad!) which allows direct copy and paste to my character. I update offline and paste the updated sheet in my character post.
templer10 08-06-07, 11:55 AM	@templer10 and anyone else who might have limited time to apply major formatting changes: I strognly suggest keeping a text file copy of your character offline. This way, as things are changing, you can make corrections during the time when you do have the time to update. This also allows more precision in applying massive updates (such as removing all tags and their related tags) Obviously - this still wouldn't help someone who has a more public computer (say in an i-net cafe or in a public library) - but for a personal computer, it makes a whole lot more sense. And as an aside, it allows you to work with your characters while the boards are down... waht i really want to know who came up with the whole useless size and font fomart? so we can take him outside and shoot him...:D
Erithmu 08-06-07, 12:04 PM	waht i really want to know who came up with the whole useless size and font fomart? so we can take him outside and shoot him...:D He still runs the Gladius Secret Police ... You'll meet him soon enough.
The Dread Dormammu 08-06-07, 12:42 PM	Not to be picky, but in this fight. http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13316356&postcount=1183 I didn't want to move out of cover, The default tactics say that Snaga should try to remain hidden. I realize that it's kind of unclear from the tactics I posted but I was supposed to stay hiding behind the pillar. When Darfu comes to strike Aiewaie then I would cast Hideous laugher. Unless I'm wrong I am allowed to remain hiding for up to 10 rounds. That should be long enough to spot him before he spots me.
templer10 08-06-07, 02:24 PM	sabertooth vs eamane is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13324396&postcount=1185) - the fairly predictable happened
TelinArtho 08-06-07, 02:33 PM	Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) is up.
Eamane 08-06-07, 02:40 PM	sabertooth vs eamane is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13324396&postcount=1185) - the fairly predictable happened Predictable given the tactics I suppose... if he had gone for range like I expected him to and spontaneously healed himself, it would have been much worse for me. Ah well, I cant complain, not one, but two victories against Niqil, woo! Edit: Could you add the 9 silver to the earn money? (It's 76.59, not 76.5)
TelinArtho 08-06-07, 03:02 PM	Isaiah Shar (xZerasx) vs Juggernaut (NiQil) is up.
Hirumajoe 08-06-07, 04:39 PM	Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) is up. Thanks for the run. I'll see what I can do about getting some of Valen's more common forms, i.e. Troll and Annis Hag written up somewhere. I was wary of adding it directly to Valen's sheet because, well, he's already got too much junk on his sheet... Although I admit I expected a much worse (from Valen's point of view) outcome. Valen is extremely vulnerable to dispel magic (especially when relying on Enlarge Person potions of manifester level 3). Eraca getting into the fight with a single dispel quite possibly would have made it easy for Kracknol to take him down. (Or possibly outright killed Valen if the Metamorphosis went poof). Edit: As for errors, nothing fight altering as I can tell. I think you may have forgotten the -1 to AC for Valen being large. But I don't think it makes a difference given the rolls. Also, he technically gets a Bite attack in troll form at -5 to hit as a natural attack. Again, doesn't really matter much given the outcome and is probably my own fault for not mentioning it and not having a handy troll form stats on the character.
SauroGrenom 08-06-07, 08:10 PM	Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) is up. Thanks Telin, I did notice two things. One is simply a question, and the other is potentially fight changing. First, does Valen or Kracknol get to decide if the suppression effect goes off first or the damage is applied first. It's important for the Vigor effect. If the damage goes first, then the vigor soaks most of the damage before being dispelled, if the other way around then Kracknol takes way more damage. Second, Valen is a Troll for most of the battle. This changes his type in an important way. He becomes a giant, so Kracknol's +2 favored enemy bonus to damage goes away. More importantly Kracknol's AC goes up by +4 due to a dwarven racial dodge bonus vs giants. This effects the hits by Valen. Kracknol's AC is 33 at the beginning, and none of Valen's attack rolls are sufficient to hit that... edit: I thought Kracknol was going to be using deep crystal and refreshing it at every chance as long as he had pp remaining... I need to check if that was in the tactics, but it was my intention. edit2: Nope didn't put it in the tactics... Nuts.
lonewolf 08-06-07, 08:19 PM	@Sauro: about the question: Supression triggers the same time damage is dealt, so Vigor should still protect against the damage.
SauroGrenom 08-06-07, 08:20 PM	Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) is up. Also Magic Armor doesn't resize when a character polymorphs (specifically mentioned in the FAQ). So Valen looses his armor bonus to AC, and the associated enhancement bonus. Also you missed his size penalty to AC, and that effects Valen's AC by a total of -7. That will further effect his AC significantly changing the outcome of the battle.
hogarth 08-06-07, 08:32 PM	Also Magic Armor doesn't resize when a character polymorphs (specifically mentioned in the FAQ). So Valen looses his armor bonus to AC, and the associated enhancement bonus. The armor (and his weapon) resized because he drank a potion of Enlarge Person.
SauroGrenom 08-06-07, 08:50 PM	The armor (and his weapon) resized because he drank a potion of Enlarge Person. Hrumph... Well at least I know that Kracknol's AC should be 33 at the beginning, and Valen hasn't hit that by the end of round 11. I suppose Valen's AC still stands at 31. But through round 11, Kracknol's hits should have the benefits of all his buffs. That slightly changes the damage output on at least one hit in round 11. Also if lonewolf is right, Kracknol's Vigor soaks 20hp before being dispelled. Combine all those factors and Kracknol's going into round 12 with full buffs and 103 HP attacking hastened with +16 vs AC 31, while Valen is at ~18hp and full buffs attacking with +17 vs AC 33. And Valen's first and second attacks in round 12 miss... I like those odds.
MindWandererB 08-06-07, 09:02 PM	@Sauro: about the question: Supression triggers the same time damage is dealt, so Vigor should still protect against the damage. I've always maintained that the controller of an effect determines the order of its resolution. I know I've read this somewhere, but I can't find the source. If this is true, the sword-wielder could decide to dispel first and deal damage second. Edit: Ha! Found it in the FAQ: When do "add-on" effects such as poison occur? For example, if an assassin delivers a death attack with a weapon bearing wyvern poison, does the poison take effect first, thus potentially reducing the target’s Fortitude save against the death attack? As a general guideline, whenever the rules don’t stipulate an order of operations for special effects (such as spells or special abilities), you should apply them in the order that’s most beneficial to the “controller” of the effect. In this case, the assassin is the “controller” of both the poison and the death attack, so he’d most likely choose for the poison to take effect first, and then the death attack.
lonewolf 08-06-07, 09:06 PM	*shrug* That means that when I had this problem way back with Karen(dissolving Weapon + supression), I way overruled incorrectly. :rolleyes:
TelinArtho 08-06-07, 09:45 PM	Yes lonewolf - that was a clarification that we found in your absense. I'm sure you'll ber happy with it too... @Sauro - as was pointed out Valen used a potion of Enlarge Person before changing into a troll - so that is not an issue with his armor. I will take a look at the missing size penalties though. As to type changing - that would indeed change things - so I'll have to take another look at that as well. In any case - all of this would happen in the morning tomorrow. If you have further issues or misgivings, please bring them up beforehand as I will likely only have time enough for 1 edit.
Zevox 08-06-07, 09:59 PM	Although I admit I expected a much worse (from Valen's point of view) outcome. Valen is extremely vulnerable to dispel magic (especially when relying on Enlarge Person potions of manifester level 3). Eraca getting into the fight with a single dispel quite possibly would have made it easy for Kracknol to take him down. (Or possibly outright killed Valen if the Metamorphosis went poof). True, and I probably should have noticed that. Drat. Just goes to show how pressed for time I was I guess. Maybe Eraca will get a rematch with one of you in her next fight to make up for it. Zevox
Hirumajoe 08-07-07, 06:57 AM	Hrumph... Well at least I know that Kracknol's AC should be 33 at the beginning, and Valen hasn't hit that by the end of round 11. Actually, it should be 31 because he charged in the previous round. 24 base + 4 (Shield) + 2 (Deflection) + 1 (Dodge-Haste) - 1 (Size) - 1 (Dex penalty) +4 (Dodge-Giant) - 2 (Charge-penalty) = 31. The first hit Valen made was a 32, so that first round of dispells still goes off as far as I can tell (or I could be doing the math wrong...). However, the +4 will definitely make a difference on later attacks. So a few more rolls still need to be made looks like. I should remember that Giant dodge bonus. And that Trolls are giants. :) I suppose it might be a bit much to ask for the bite natural attacks as part of the full attack routine if edits are going in? Thanks. Edit: As far as I can tell, the third attack in round 11 and the 2nd attack in round 12 miss due to the +4 dodge AC bonus. As far as the natural bite attack, it should be a +8 (BAB) + 6 (Str-meta) + 2 (Str-AA) + 1 Haste - 1 (Size) -5 (Secondary Natural) = +10 and dealing 1d6 + 4 damage. Just to make your number crunching easier, not that I expect it to actually hit... But yeah, by the middle of round 12, Krackanol should still be at 39 hit points with only Haste up (effectively 29 AC until the Haste is down, at which point 28). Vs Valen's 22 hp (since no FE) and 31 AC (until haste is out at which point 30). So yes, it could easily go either way still.
hogarth 08-07-07, 07:12 AM	However, the +4 will definitely make a difference on later attacks. So a few more rolls still need to be made looks like. I should remember that Giant dodge bonus. And that Trolls are giants. You might consider the Phthisic as a metamorph form instead of the troll. You lose two points of Con, but you pick up two points of AC and your bite has a nifty surprise. :devil:
Hirumajoe 08-07-07, 07:17 AM	You might consider the Phthisic as a metamorph form instead of the troll. You lose two points of Con, but you pick up two points of AC and your bite has a nifty surprise. :devil: You know... That thing *is* a pretty nice form. It fits between the Troll and the Annis Hag on the Hp to AC trade off. And it is a monstrous humanoid so no additional skills necessary there. Thanks for the tip. :)
TelinArtho 08-07-07, 10:48 AM	Okay - fight has been edited. Both Valen and Kracknol used 2 extra rounds from their boots of speed to close the deal. I did edit in the bite attacks and one of those actually did hit. As an aside, I also noticed that I erroneously did Kracknol's AC in one of the attacks (I had marked his base AC as 20, not 24... no clue why), but that changed another hit to a miss. In any case, the fight result did not change.
lonewolf 08-07-07, 11:16 AM	Kervan vs Longshot is up. I still need to calculate rewards though. @MWB: If you dont want me to surrender at that point I can continue, but I dont see much sense trying to heal in this case.
Hirumajoe 08-07-07, 11:23 AM	Okay - fight has been edited. Both Valen and Kracknol used 2 extra rounds from their boots of speed to close the deal. I did edit in the bite attacks and one of those actually did hit. As an aside, I also noticed that I erroneously did Kracknol's AC in one of the attacks (I had marked his base AC as 20, not 24... no clue why), but that changed another hit to a miss. In any case, the fight result did not change. Just a note, Valen can't use 5 rounds of Haste, he is limited to 4 max. However, it doesn't make a difference as the last hit was 31 vs AC 29. So even subtracting -1 from Haste, it still hits. But it does make a difference for the fight summary.
templer10 08-07-07, 11:25 AM	Kervan vs Longshot is up. I still need to calculate rewards though. @MWB: If you dont want me to surrender at that point I can continue, but I dont see much sense trying to heal in this case. ty for the run- stupid dispell check 1! on it when only 1 or 2 means i fail lol - cost me a perfectly good dorja charge or 3. p.s.- rewards are +21.42% for MWB and +2.58% for me (24% of political carrer - 21.42% ally penalty).
TelinArtho 08-07-07, 11:28 AM	Just a note, Valen can't use 5 rounds of Haste, he is limited to 4 max. However, it doesn't make a difference as the last hit was 31 vs AC 29. So even subtracting -1 from Haste, it still hits. But it does make a difference for the fight summary. Well you've got an error somewhere. You are in fight 2, and in the 3FC info, I do not see any rounds of your boots of speed being used - so I assumed you had 8 available. Looking again, I do see that the 10 is crossed off to indicate 6 rounds left, but that is missing in your 3FC info. Anyway - I'll fix it. EDIT - and done.
Hirumajoe 08-07-07, 11:32 AM	Well you've got an error somewhere. You are in fight 2, and in the 3FC info, I do not see any rounds of your boots of speed being used - so I assumed you had 8 available. Looking again, I do see that the 10 is crossed off to indicate 6 rounds left, but that is missing in your 3FC info. Anyway - I'll fix it. Hmm... I generally just copy and past the 3FC from the pitlord... Checking, it looks like Zevox left it out of the summary from the Elrick fight. I'm pretty sure 4 rounds of it were used in said fight. But you're correct, that is an error I'll fix on the sheet. My apologies. Edit: And thanks!
lonewolf 08-07-07, 11:32 AM	p.s.- rewards are +21.42% for MWB and +2.58% for me (24% of political carrer - 21.42% ally penalty). unfortunately this is incorrect: rewards*(1+0.24)*(1-0.2142) is not the same as rewards*(1+(0.24-0.2142)) And the first one is correct. Rewards done.
TelinArtho 08-07-07, 11:40 AM	Sorry to disagree Lonewolf, but for the CoCo, all adjusting percentages are added together before being applied to the results. So two opponents with allies, one at 10%, one at 5% and the latter having a political career of 20% would result in the former getting a 5% penalty and the latter gaining a 25% bonus.
lonewolf 08-07-07, 11:45 AM	Sorry to disagree Lonewolf, but for the CoCo, all adjusting percentages are added together before being applied to the results. So two opponents with allies, one at 10%, one at 5% and the latter having a political career of 20% would result in the former getting a 5% penalty and the latter gaining a 25% bonus. Huh? Really? Ok I will change it. But is there any reason why we change basic math here?
TelinArtho 08-07-07, 11:52 AM	Its not so much a change to basic math, but to make it simpler. Add up all of the percentages to a single value then apply it to the xp. The big thing here is that when both people bring in the same level ally, they should result in a 100% reward. If you apply them "correctly" - the true result (-25%+25%) would end up as 93.75% rewards for both players.
MindWandererB 08-07-07, 01:22 PM	Kervan vs Longshot is up. I still need to calculate rewards though. @MWB: If you dont want me to surrender at that point I can continue, but I dont see much sense trying to heal in this case. That's hilarious--I got the best imaginable luck on the Dispel checks, but then miserable luck on the bow shots. So close... to having a chance in hell, anyway. Thanks for the run.
templer10 08-07-07, 02:13 PM	Anyone seen malither76 lately? it's that there is Denshi (Vathelokai) vs. Lord Lorian (templer10) that still isnt done and i normally wouldnt worry but malither posted a few days ago he is having some kind of problem
MindWandererB 08-07-07, 02:24 PM	Anyone seen malither76 lately? it's that there is Denshi (Vathelokai) vs. Lord Lorian (templer10) that still isnt done and i normally wouldnt worry but malither posted a few days ago he is having some kind of problem Well, it'll be late in about two and a half hours, at which time it's fair grabs for anyone to pick it up.
TheMagister 08-07-07, 03:18 PM	Speaking of that -- looks like Rubi's gonna be delayed for a week. {sigh} Telin Zevox has a lot on his plate. :)
Zevox 08-07-07, 03:23 PM	Not if I can help it TM... but you're right about one thing, I've got a lot on my plate right now... Zevox
Salrantol 08-07-07, 05:45 PM	@Zevox:@ Salrantol - you never specified what energy to resist, so given your foe I'm going to presume fire.All castings of resist energy will be to protect against fire.
Zevox 08-07-07, 05:55 PM	All righty then - I'm used to such spells just being specified where they're mentioned in the tactics, so I didn't check for that in notes. Zevox
Salrantol 08-07-07, 06:04 PM	Yeah, but since I listed it 6 times in the tactics, I thought it easier to just mention it in one place (for me anyway, apparently not for you, sorry).
MindWandererB 08-07-07, 08:16 PM	@Salrantol: Failed quests earn no rewards.
Macbrea 08-07-07, 08:31 PM	Wow.. I see Razorfang was cursed in that fight.. d20 = 4,3,2...
Zevox 08-07-07, 08:45 PM	Wow.. I see Razorfang was cursed in that fight.. d20 = 4,3,2... Yeah - he just now got his first hits on Rubi, and one of them was with a 10. Nothing like taking 18 rounds to start hurting your opponent. Of course, Rubi's had a bit of hard luck himself, so the outcome is still up in the air. Zevox
Zevox 08-07-07, 09:11 PM	And Rubicanti vs Enoch & Razorfang is done. @ MWB - I'm going to try and run that monster vs operative fight tonight. Can't guarantee it'll get finished tonight (though I expect Kineticist vs alpha strikers on the plains shouldn't take too long), but I'm fairly sure I can guarantee it'll get finished before pairings tomorrow. Zevox
Salrantol 08-07-07, 09:52 PM	@Salrantol: Failed quests earn no rewards.Even MQs? Brutal. I suppose it makes sense in this case, though, seeing as if he got the rewards, he could afford a mule, making the loss meaningless....Miniquesting for an 8 gp ally, I tell ya...:nonono:
TheMagister 08-07-07, 10:05 PM	Okay. First, Rubi's got deflect arrows, so the crossbow shots are out. Second, even if my pitlord allows DOGS to CLIMB TREES (??!), Razorfang should be making balance checks every round that he attacks. Also, the large-sized skeleton can't fit up into the canopy, so Rubi has cover from him, and concealment from everything else that's not in the canopy. Finally, with no ranks in Balance, Razorfang is flat-footed while he's in the canopy, and loses his Dex to AC. Did I specify to stun anyone? I don't remember. I'm sorry to sound short on these requests; I'm hurtin' for time. THanks for the run, Zevox! TM
Macbrea 08-07-07, 10:15 PM	Odd, Rubicanti lacks 5 ranks of balance. Balancing characters are considered flat footed if they don't have at least 5 ranks. I agree, I should make balance checks also, if trying to attack in the tree. The crossbow shots are against a flatfooted monk. As a result you cannot use your deflect arrows. heh.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp7W7ZMYndA
Erithmu 08-07-07, 10:21 PM	Odd, Rubicanti lacks 5 ranks of balance. Balancing characters are considered flat footed if they don't have at least 5 ranks. I agree, I should make balance checks also, if trying to attack in the tree. The crossbow shots are against a flatfooted monk. As a result you cannot use your deflect arrows. heh.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp7W7ZMYndA Wall walker power ....
Macbrea 08-07-07, 10:23 PM	Ah... hmm, ok, Well.. no activation for me next week I guess..
Zevox 08-07-07, 10:27 PM	Okay. First, Rubi's got deflect arrows, so the crossbow shots are out. Rubi's also up in the trees without 5 ranks in balance. No dex to AC, no arrow deflecting. Second, even if my pitlord allows DOGS to CLIMB TREES (??!), Razorfang should be making balance checks every round that he attacks. Theres nothing in the rules against it, so its allowed. And he only needs to make balance checks to move through the canopy, not just stand in it and attack. Also, the large-sized skeleton can't fit up into the canopy, so Rubi has cover from him, and concealment from everything else that's not in the canopy. Cover was factored in - it was the reason your AC didn't go down vs him after you lost your dexterity up in the tress. Concealment I missed, but really don't have time to edit in if it were to make a difference. I can toss up the rolls real quick to see if it would, if you'd like... Finally, with no ranks in Balance, Razorfang is flat-footed while he's in the canopy, and loses his Dex to AC. Got that already - hence the reason he had AC 19, not 23. Did I specify to stun anyone? I don't remember. Nope. Zevox
lonewolf 08-07-07, 10:30 PM	Dont sound so suprised that dogs can climb trees in D&D. Look at the MM2. The Legendary Elephant in there has a climb speed! Go figure. And I believe that was written before Ice Age 2. :P
hogarth 08-07-07, 10:42 PM	Theres nothing in the rules against it, so its allowed. And he only needs to make balance checks to move through the canopy, not just stand in it and attack. Oh really? You need both hands free to climb, but you may cling to a wall with one hand while you cast a spell or take some other action that requires only one hand. "Arf! I don't have any hands! Arf!" - Razorfang
lonewolf 08-07-07, 10:45 PM	Oh really? "Arf! I don't have any hands! Arf!" - Razorfang oh crap that means that poor spider cannot climb in her own web either? :rolleyes:
hogarth 08-07-07, 10:48 PM	oh crap that means that poor spider cannot climb in her own web either? :rolleyes: I don't write the rules, I just quote 'em! :D EDIT: There's only one logical conclusion -- any creature with a climb speed must have at least two hands. Q.E.D. ;)
NiQil 08-07-07, 10:51 PM	@ Zevox: There is nothing in the rules against me magically conjuring the Death Star in to Gladius to win all my battles either...does that mean that is allowed? I know you know this, but couldn't let that pass....the rules write what we can do, not what we can't do. If it doesn't say we can, then we can't, not the other way around.
Zevox 08-07-07, 10:57 PM	@ lonewolf/hogarth - The logical conclusion from that mess is that a creature needs at least two appendages for climbing. A Worg has such. @ NiQil - Then I suppose none of my characters can spit, since the rules don't say they can? Really, thats as ridiculous a stance as the reverse. Neither is completely correct. Zevox
hogarth 08-07-07, 10:58 PM	@ lonewolf/hogarth - The logical conclusion from that mess is that a creature needs at least two appendages for climbing. A Worg has such. <cough> snakes <cough>
Erithmu 08-07-07, 10:59 PM	@Zevox: Since this got lost in the sarcasm ... Rubi is climbing via walk walker power which allows him to retain his Dex to AC.
Zevox 08-07-07, 11:05 PM	@ Tm - Rolled the concealment checks, no misses from those. <cough> snakes <cough> ...okay, so theres no logical conclusion from that rules statement unless we ignore it outside of races that actually have hands. @Zevox: Since this got lost in the sarcasm ... Rubi is climbing via walk walker power which allows him to retain his Dex to AC. 'Fraid it doesn't work that way. Wall Walker allows him to retain his dex to AC while climbing on a wall or ceiling, not at all times/when balancing on a slim surface (look at this way: the ability to have your feet stick to a surface does you little good if you misstep and miss the surface altogether). The general flavor may at first glance make it seem compatible, but the mechanics just don't mesh, and neither does the flavor if you think about it. Zevox
Erithmu 08-07-07, 11:06 PM	Ok I can see that ... that comes in line with the ruling on Up the Walls that was made before.
TheMagister 08-07-07, 11:55 PM	Okay, I was really banking on Wall Walker allowing me to keep my Dex to AC and so allowing Rubi to deflect arrows. Is there anything to say that Rubi can't just stay on the trunk of the tree while in the canopy instead of "balancing" on the canopy itself with his sticky feet? I understand what you're saying regarding the balance vs. climb relationship, but there HAS to be a tree trunk Rubi can hang off of in the canopy and keep his Dex to AC for deflect arrows. Elephants, despite their tremendous strength scores, don't Jump. Dogs, despite their multiple appendages, don't climb trees. This is an age-old axiom that has protected cats for millenia. Give realism a nod, please.
Vathelokai 08-08-07, 12:18 AM	Well, since it looks like Malither76 is missing, I'll just put up Denshi's tactics here for whoever picks up the fight. No peeking! Denshi (Vathelokai) vs. Lord Lorian (templer10) : Malither76 [City] Pretty straightforward here. Start with wands of cure moderate and magic missiles in my hand. Move out so that I can see the center of the map, but have cover from it. Ready to shoot Lorian's mount with magic missiles from wand (5d4+5). I'm assuming I'll take a big energy missile hit. When that happens, retreat out of site (alleys, yards, where-ever) and heal up with wand of CMW (2d8+3). If possible (ie, don't need a double move) shoot again before moving to break LoS. Keep this up until super speedy is dead. Then use the same strategy on Lorian. Burn out his brooch and then keep hitting him with MM until he dies. Focus on keeping hp as high as possible (within 5 hp of full) until he stops with the energy missiles and begins using dorjes. If he's firing no more energy missiles, then keep hp over 20. Contingencies -If I have nothing better to do, use total defense (standard action, +4 dodge) -Always sheath wands (when I need a free hand) and use quickdraw to retrieve them when needed. -Once he starts shooting rays, cast shield of faith with the metamagic rod of extend. -If I'm cornered and need to heal up, cast web on them with them in the center. If I can have the horse dead and Lorian stuck in there, all the better. -vs. crisis of breath: move out of sight and cast dispel on self using metamagic rod of silence. If that fails, alternate MM/CMW and standard actions for breathing. -vs. TK maneuver: If disarmed, pick up items and continue. If grappled, use wand to heal. If allowed, use MM wand in grapple to continue attacking. -vs. Mindwipe: The lower HPs a pain, but otherwise ignore it (wands still work fine). -vs. shambler: Move out of area. Try to put area of shambler between me and Lorian.
NiQil 08-08-07, 12:24 AM	Well, since it looks like Malither76 is missing, I'll just put up Denshi's tactics here for whoever picks up the fight. No peeking! Denshi (Vathelokai) vs. Lord Lorian (templer10) : Malither76 [City] Pretty straightforward here. Start with wands of cure moderate and magic missiles in my hand. Move out so that I can see the center of the map, but have cover from it. Ready to shoot Lorian's mount with magic missiles from wand (5d4+5). I'm assuming I'll take a big energy missile hit. When that happens, retreat out of site (alleys, yards, where-ever) and heal up with wand of CMW (2d8+3). If possible (ie, don't need a double move) shoot again before moving to break LoS. Keep this up until super speedy is dead. Then use the same strategy on Lorian. Burn out his brooch and then keep hitting him with MM until he dies. Focus on keeping hp as high as possible (within 5 hp of full) until he stops with the energy missiles and begins using dorjes. If he's firing no more energy missiles, then keep hp over 20. Contingencies -If I have nothing better to do, use total defense (standard action, +4 dodge) -Always sheath wands (when I need a free hand) and use quickdraw to retrieve them when needed. -Once he starts shooting rays, cast shield of faith with the metamagic rod of extend. -If I'm cornered and need to heal up, cast web on them with them in the center. If I can have the horse dead and Lorian stuck in there, all the better. -vs. crisis of breath: move out of sight and cast dispel on self using metamagic rod of silence. If that fails, alternate MM/CMW and standard actions for breathing. -vs. TK maneuver: If disarmed, pick up items and continue. If grappled, use wand to heal. If allowed, use MM wand in grapple to continue attacking. -vs. Mindwipe: The lower HPs a pain, but otherwise ignore it (wands still work fine). -vs. shambler: Move out of area. Try to put area of shambler between me and Lorian. :eek: I peaked!
Zevox 08-08-07, 12:29 AM	Okay, I was really banking on Wall Walker allowing me to keep my Dex to AC and so allowing Rubi to deflect arrows. Is there anything to say that Rubi can't just stay on the trunk of the tree while in the canopy instead of "balancing" on the canopy itself with his sticky feet? I understand what you're saying regarding the balance vs. climb relationship, but there HAS to be a tree trunk Rubi can hang off of in the canopy and keep his Dex to AC for deflect arrows. *biting lips* I suppose thats true. But its not as though its a terribly obvious tactic to use either, and I really don't have the time to do an edit that would have that much potential to change things at this point. Sorry, but I'm afraid it'll have to stand. Elephants, despite their tremendous strength scores, don't Jump. Dogs, despite their multiple appendages, don't climb trees. This is an age-old axiom that has protected cats for millenia. Give realism a nod, please. Sorry buddy, but without something in the rules to indicate it, theres no way I'm telling someone they can't use a basic skill just because of their choice of a race. If it makes you feel any better, think of it as something Worgs have up on normal dogs - they are, after all, a fantasy race of far stronger, more intelligent wolves, not exactly something that is necessarily identical to the real-world creatures they resemble. Zevox
Malither76 08-08-07, 12:35 AM	Sorry guys I work at a privately owned dormitory and work has really picked up getting ready for fall semester to start, the fight is done. Denshi vs Lord Lorian is here
Zevox 08-08-07, 12:38 AM	@ Anyone: General question - do monster rolls which yield multiple monsters have those monsters start in one box together (as a team), or one box each (as a randomly-rolled team fight)? I thought the former (since they are the product of a single monster roll, one would presume team rules apply), but it seems MWB thought the latter, based on his tactics for my last fight. Zevox
Vathelokai 08-08-07, 01:38 AM	Sorry guys I work at a privately owned dormitory and work has really picked up getting ready for fall semester to start, the fight is done. Denshi vs Lord Lorian is here Can't say I didn't see that coming. Could you roll the reflex save real quick; I only survive on a 20, but I'd like it to feel complete.
Zevox 08-08-07, 02:00 AM	Jayson the Coalition Psion vs TLT's Half-Giant Guardians is up. I wound up running it under the presumption the monsters would start off in the same box - hopefully thats not too big an issue. Zevox
Vathelokai 08-08-07, 03:20 AM	@Pitlords, Guildlords, and TM: Mission "Ramparts" is completed upon review by TheMagister; PMs sent, no time to do the questlog until tomorrow.
MindWandererB 08-08-07, 03:39 AM	@ Anyone: General question - do monster rolls which yield multiple monsters have those monsters start in one box together (as a team), or one box each (as a randomly-rolled team fight)? I thought the former (since they are the product of a single monster roll, one would presume team rules apply), but it seems MWB thought the latter, based on his tactics for my last fight. Zevox I have not previously seen it run that way--and bear in mind that members of a team do not automatically start in the same box either. (It's different for pre-arranged teams... but remember that monster fights predate that option, so they wouldn't use it as an example.) More importantly, you missed a critical line in my tactics: If Energy Retort is observed to be active, all three will use a stone of Energy Adaptation for that energy type.And finally, you have forgotten that monsters (as these half-giants are considered) are not subject to the 1/3 rule. This allows them to re-ally Vigor as per tactics. Consequences, assuming the starting positions are left as-is: in round 8, the surviving half-giant re-applies Vigor. His attack occurs on round 9 instead, and he is smacked with electricity. In round 10, having observed that he gets hit with electricity when he hits the psion (display or no, this is obvious), the half-giant should use his remaining stone of Energy Adaptation. This tips things rather severely in the half-giant's favor, since the E. Retort will do minimal damage and the giant has a mess of PP left for Vigor. In the interests of saving time, I'm willing to accept the starting-box issue, but these errors need to be addressed.
Salrantol 08-08-07, 07:06 AM	Okay, I was really banking on Wall Walker allowing me to keep my Dex to AC and so allowing Rubi to deflect arrows. Is there anything to say that Rubi can't just stay on the trunk of the tree while in the canopy instead of "balancing" on the canopy itself with his sticky feet? I understand what you're saying regarding the balance vs. climb relationship, but there HAS to be a tree trunk Rubi can hang off of in the canopy and keep his Dex to AC for deflect arrows.*biting lips* I suppose thats true. But its not as though its a terribly obvious tactic to use either, and I really don't have the time to do an edit that would have that much potential to change things at this point. Sorry, but I'm afraid it'll have to stand.When I read Rubicanti's tactics, I thought he meant to hang off a trunk. I don't know about TM or Macbrea, but I'd be OK with waiting for a carryover to edit this in (despite the fact that Enoch has nothing but SMIII scrolls to hurt Rubi left).
Macbrea 08-08-07, 08:23 AM	It doesn't matter to me. I will have to activate a different character this week anyways. And am off to gencon on the 12th, hope to see some of you there. :P
Zevox 08-08-07, 10:55 AM	I have not previously seen it run that way--and bear in mind that members of a team do not automatically start in the same box either. (It's different for pre-arranged teams... but remember that monster fights predate that option, so they wouldn't use it as an example.) Its pre-arranged teams I was talking about - wouldn't it make sense for a group from a single monster role to be considered such? More importantly, you missed a critical line in my tactics: Didn't miss it at all - the Psion was suppressing displays, so theres no visual effect from the retort, just the sudden damage when they strike. This makes its impossible for them to ID the effect. And finally, you have forgotten that monsters (as these half-giants are considered) are not subject to the 1/3 rule. This allows them to re-ally Vigor as per tactics. Ah shoot, you're right there, I forgot that. (Why the Nine Hells do we allow that again??) I'll see if I can get that in before the new pairings, but since I've got all those Guildmaster ad Guildlords duties that need doing too, plus I need to set some characters to active, it may not happen... Zevox
hogarth 08-08-07, 11:03 AM	Didn't miss it at all - the Psion was suppressing displays, so theres no visual effect from the retort, just the sudden damage when they strike. This makes its impossible for them to ID the effect. Suppressing a display doesn't make the effect invisible. Otherwise it would be trivial to create undetectable astral constructs. Personally, I think I can tell the difference between sticking my hand in a bonfire and sticking my finger in an electrical socket even while blindfolded.
Zevox 08-08-07, 11:10 AM	Suppressing a display doesn't make the effect invisible. Otherwise it would be trivial to create undetectable astral constructs. Personally, I think I can tell the difference between sticking my hand in a bonfire and sticking my finger in an electrical socket even while blindfolded. Energy Retort says it has a visual display, and the only visual effect it causes is the retort's attack itself. What else am I to conclude? And ditto with Astral Construct - it has a visual display (and even says "see text" after that), but only the construct itself is mentioned as anything that results from the power. So yeah, looks like those can in fact be created invisible. Zevox
Hirumajoe 08-08-07, 11:16 AM	Energy Retort says it has a visual display, and the only visual effect it causes is the retort's attack itself. What else am I to conclude? And ditto with Astral Construct - it has a visual display (and even says "see text" after that), but only the construct itself is mentioned as anything that results from the power. So yeah, looks like those can in fact be created invisible. Zevox Suppressing a display never suppresses the primary effect. It only suppresses secondary effects. I'd say the Astral construct is a primary effect, and thus cannot be made invisible. Similarly, the energy damage dealt by energy retort is the primary effect, and thus should always be obvious. The SRD also goes on to define the default displays in the case where they are not defined by the power. Display When a power is manifested, a display may accompany the primary effect. This secondary effect may be auditory, material, mental, olfactory, or visual. No power’s display is significant enough to create consequences for the psionic creatures, allies, or opponents during combat. The secondary effect for a power occurs only if the power’s description indicates it. If multiple powers with similar displays are in effect simultaneously, the displays do not necessary become more intense. Instead, the overall display remains much the same, though with minute spikes in intensity. A Psicraft check (DC 10 + 1 per additional power in use) reveals the exact number of simultaneous powers in play. Dispense with Displays Despite the fact that almost every power has a display, a psionic character can always choose to manifest the power without the flashy accompaniment. To manifest a power without any display (no matter how many displays it might have), a manifester must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the power). This check is part of the action of manifesting the power. If the check is unsuccessful, the power manifests normally with its display. Even if a manifester manifests a power without a display, he is still subject to attacks of opportunity in appropriate circumstances. (Of course, another Concentration check can be made as normal to either manifest defensively or maintain the power if attacked.)
TheMagister 08-08-07, 01:16 PM	*biting lips* I suppose thats true. But its not as though its a terribly obvious tactic to use either, and I really don't have the time to do an edit that would have that much potential to change things at this point. Sorry, but I'm afraid it'll have to stand. I disagree. It's a simple thing that doesn't change his position on the battlegrid, just his attitude in your mental picture of the fight. He could be standing upside down on a branch just as easily (wall walking along the top of the canopy). I remember a particular instance in which the flying skeleton hit Rubi by 1. That hit (which was pretty substantial -- in the teens in damage) shouldn't have happened. I haven't gone through the battle in detail, but I shouldn't be surprised if Rubi gains 20+ hp back from the repercussions of that little gem. Sorry buddy, but without something in the rules to indicate it, theres no way I'm telling someone they can't use a basic skill just because of their choice of a race. If it makes you feel any better, think of it as something Worgs have up on normal dogs - they are, after all, a fantasy race of far stronger, more intelligent wolves, not exactly something that is necessarily identical to the real-world creatures they resemble. Zevox The choice of race is exactly what it is: a baseline foundation of what your character can and can't do. Humans can't see in the dark, elves lose con, dwarves lose cha, and halflings excel at throwing things and suck at grappling. Dogs can't climb trees. Wolves can't climb trees. Worgs are just bigger wolves. They CAN'T. Certainly not 30' tall ones that require a DC 15 climb check. They're just not physically built for it. Not only do I have real-world experience to draw on (as should we all), there are decades of fantasy storytelling backing up my stance as well. Bilbo and Co. got treed by a pack of worgs and rescued by the Giant Eagles, as I recall. If you decide to let this stand, there's nothing I can do -- it's true. But it'll be the single most ridiculous way to lose a fight I've ever seen in the CoCo. Rules-lawyering only goes so far. I don't care if he takes a class that gives Climb as a class skill, and then ramps up his ranks in it to unbelievably high levels. He'll still be physically unsuited to climbing trees and sheer surfaces because of his heritage. It's not discrimination, it's a natural limitation. Like cutting a rope with a club, for instance. That's just how I see it. TM
Macbrea 08-08-07, 01:23 PM	No chance you watched the video I linked?
lonewolf 08-08-07, 01:24 PM	The problem is that youre arguing real world physics against game rules. In D&D you can cut a rope with a club(especially if you have power attack). You can completly destroy a stonewall with an adamantine dagger. And everyone with a decent climb check can climb trees. Does it make sense? Maybe not. But to say that a worg cannot climb a tree is a house rule that doesnt exists at the moment. Should it exist? Maybe. But at the moment it just doesnt.
MindWandererB 08-08-07, 01:25 PM	Energy Retort says it has a visual display, and the only visual effect it causes is the retort's attack itself. What else am I to conclude? And ditto with Astral Construct - it has a visual display (and even says "see text" after that), but only the construct itself is mentioned as anything that results from the power. So yeah, looks like those can in fact be created invisible. Zevox Also note that Energy Ball and other similar powers don't have a visual display. Are they invisible all the time? No; they're just not accompanied by the silver-burning eyes and rainbow flash that Energy Retort is.
Zevox 08-08-07, 02:07 PM	I disagree. It's a simple thing that doesn't change his position on the battlegrid, just his attitude in your mental picture of the fight. Like I said though, its not exactly an obvious tactic to use - hanging on the side of the tree, limited in mobility to only the tree itself? Hardly the default way to move in the canopy of the forest. He could be standing upside down on a branch just as easily (wall walking along the top of the canopy). 'Fraid if you were doing that I'd have to give you balance stuff as normal. No reason the top of the canopy should be different from the bottom in that regard. The choice of race is exactly what it is: a baseline foundation of what your character can and can't do. Humans can't see in the dark, elves lose con, dwarves lose cha, and halflings excel at throwing things and suck at grappling. There is a rather significant between all that and what you're trying to say. All of those are special abilities those races are explicitly given or lack. But you're talking about telling someone they flat-out can't use one of the game's most basic skills just because their race resembles a real-world race that can't, when there is absolutely nothing in the game rules prohibiting it. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to make up a new rule for the Worg race on the spot where one does not exist - at least not here, where we're supposed to be so strictly by-the-book with the rules. Bilbo and Co. got treed by a pack of worgs and rescued by the Giant Eagles, as I recall. Despite the fact that it draws on Tolkien's works for many things, D&D is not Arda. (Aside: trust me, you don't want to get me to start talking about Tolkien's works - I'd go off on tangents that'd only make sense to a real Tolkien geek [I should know, I've done it before on the FR boards...].) Also note that Energy Ball and other similar powers don't have a visual display. Are they invisible all the time? No; they're just not accompanied by the silver-burning eyes and rainbow flash that Energy Retort is. A fair point. All right, I'll edit the fight for that too. Zevox
hogarth 08-08-07, 02:28 PM	But you're talking about telling someone they flat-out can't use one of the game's most basic skills just because their race resembles a real-world race that can't, when there is absolutely nothing in the game rules prohibiting it. ...except for the rule that says you need two hands to climb (which you waved off as a contradiction). Look -- there are two cases where we can agree the rules state (or strongly imply) that climbing should work: 1) Any creature with at least two "hands" can presumably climb (I'd extend that to any two prehensile limbs). That means that centaurs can climb better than humans, but I'll hold my nose and swallow that. 2) Any (standard) creature with a Climb modifier in its stat block should be able to climb. That means that a snake can climb up a flat surface better than a human, but I'll hold my nose and swallow that, too. There's no rule suggesting that any other creature can climb. Would you allow a woman with no arms and legs to climb? (What do you call a woman with no arms and no legs climbing a wall? Ivy.)
Macbrea 08-08-07, 02:42 PM	I would ask that if Razorfang is prevented from climbing a tree that he is played with his wisdom. (Note: dogs can climb trees that have alot of limbs, do video search for 'tree climbing dog', there is alot of different videos on it.) Common sense says if you cannot get to an opponent you should avoid him. Since, he has a much higher wisdom then Rubicanti. He should be improvised in such a manner to avoid Rubicanti entirely until the human fall from the tree asleep. There is no reason for him if he cannot get to his opponent to ever be a target of his opponent. The dispelling of Razofang doesn't particularly change his tactics. The dispelling of Rubicanti on the other hand changes how he is forced to fight. Delay is delay.
Zevox 08-08-07, 03:31 PM	Okay, I edited the Coalition vs Guardian fight, and the result did change. Mostly just because the Half-Giant got to burn all his pp while the Psion was limited to only 1/3 of his, though. Which causes me to again ask - why do we not limit monsters by the 1/3 rule?? Zevox
MindWandererB 08-08-07, 03:48 PM	Okay, I edited the Coalition vs Guardian fight, and the result did change. Mostly just because the Half-Giant got to burn all his pp while the Psion was limited to only 1/3 of his, though. Which causes me to again ask - why do we not limit monsters by the 1/3 rule?? Zevox Because monsters are governed by CR rather than ECL. In a TT monster fight, the monster gets to blow everything it has, while PCs have to conserve resources, and that's the way its CR is calculated.
Salrantol 08-08-07, 04:05 PM	why do we not limit monsters by the 1/3 rule??Because MWB was on the side of the monsters this week. Expect a mysterious rules change to appear when next he has a monster fight, and then back again.... *hopes MWB has his sarcasm detector on*
MindWandererB 08-08-07, 04:13 PM	Because MWB was on the side of the monsters this week. Expect a mysterious rules change to appear when next he has a monster fight, and then back again.... *hopes MWB has his sarcasm detector on* <sigh> I know you mean it in jest, but it's comments like that that made Cat leave....
TheMagister 08-08-07, 04:41 PM	So be it. I'm going to create a fiendish ooze and give it the Tumble skill and force everyone to swallow it as RAW. Yes, I'm sulky. No, I'm not sorry I'm sulky. No I'm not quitting like a baby. YES I'll get over it. tm
Rauul 08-08-07, 04:49 PM	So be it. I'm going to create a fiendish ooze and give it the Tumble skill and force everyone to swallow it as RAW. Yes, I'm sulky. No, I'm not sorry I'm sulky. No I'm not quitting like a baby. YES I'll get over it. tm Always room for Fiendish Jello... :)
Zevox 08-08-07, 06:44 PM	So be it. I'm going to create a fiendish ooze and give it the Tumble skill and force everyone to swallow it as RAW. *shrugs* Sure, why not? It'll have a hell of a time overcoming the whole -5 dex modifier, not to mention how slow it'll move while tumbling (oozes are slow to begin with, so moving at half speed they're all but standing still by most race's standards), but its allowable. Zevox
TheMagister 08-09-07, 01:11 AM	*shrugs* Sure, why not? It'll have a hell of a time overcoming the whole -5 dex modifier, not to mention how slow it'll move while tumbling (oozes are slow to begin with, so moving at half speed they're all but standing still by most race's standards), but its allowable. Zevox {grits teeth} Now you're being intentionally dense (I get it, and in other circumstances I'd laugh). Tumbling oozes are something that any DM would laugh his socks off at. DMs were invented to curb exactly that sort of nonsense (along with grappling horses and warriors that use the weight of their armor to allow "walking" along the beds of streams that'd drown them). The CoCo is seriously rules-lawyer-crazy with some of the stuff we allow. Most of it I can swallow. I draw the line at dogs climbing trees (and tumbling oozes). Some things are just too silly. I'm actually (not that my opinion of you matters to you, or should matter to you at all) really disappointed in this decision, especially coming from you. You're normally more level-headed. I'm used to being the one who's a little more off the wall. I'm rambling, and saying nothing constructive. Signing off. TM p.s. - I'm still your friend. My panties are in a wad. I'll get over it. ;)
MindWandererB 08-09-07, 02:54 AM	warriors that use the weight of their armor to allow "walking" along the beds of streams that'd drown themIf the warrior has a way of avoiding suffocation, or can hold their breath long enough, I don't see a problem with that. Perhaps at 1/4 speed.
Eamane 08-09-07, 03:06 AM	{grits teeth} Now you're being intentionally dense (I get it, and in other circumstances I'd laugh). Tumbling oozes are something that any DM would laugh his socks off at. DMs were invented to curb exactly that sort of nonsense (along with grappling horses and warriors that use the weight of their armor to allow "walking" along the beds of streams that'd drown them). The CoCo is seriously rules-lawyer-crazy with some of the stuff we allow. Most of it I can swallow. I draw the line at dogs climbing trees (and tumbling oozes). Some things are just too silly. I'm actually (not that my opinion of you matters to you, or should matter to you at all) really disappointed in this decision, especially coming from you. You're normally more level-headed. I'm used to being the one who's a little more off the wall. I'm rambling, and saying nothing constructive. Signing off. TM p.s. - I'm still your friend. My panties are in a wad. I'll get over it. ;) Tumbling oozes, tree-climbing dogs and underwater walking warriors, while a bit odd from a logical point of view, make plenty of sense to me. What exactly, about a living liquid would make it unable to move fluidly from one point to another, without opening itself up to attack? The word 'tumbling' implies acrobatics, but the simply acting of moving at all for something with no bone structure is already pretty damn acrobatic. If anything, I would be inclined to give something with such an extraordinary and superior movement system a bonus to tumbling, rather than a penalty. See, while some D&D oozes and slimes are undextrous, not all of them are. Now, if it was a Gelatinous Cube doing the tumbling, I'd certainly raise my eyebrow. Tree climbing dogs? Uhm. It's an animal with claws... just because many of the animals in its specific genetic branch don't regularly climb trees, doesn't mean they cant. See the recorded multiple accounts of real life, quite ordinary, dogs climbing trees. And your saying that a demi-magical, super-intelligence fantasy dog, would be completely unable to even attempt something that multiple real life canines can do with ease? Underwater walking warriors. Yeah, thats a death-sentence. It's a pretty hard-core thing to attempt. And it's heroic as all hell. Throw some suffocation and strength checks their way. And if they succeed, they succeed, because that is exactly the kind of thing that D&D is built to allow. Its the kind of thing you'd see in a fantasy action movie (and I have actually, multiple times), which makes it a perfect fit. Or, to wit, I think your making a big deal out of the wrong thing. These things arn't that twinkish... or really twinkish at all, with the possible exception of tumbling Gelatinous Cubes, which haven't manifested themselves yet.
MindWandererB 08-09-07, 03:19 AM	Or, to wit, I think your making a big deal out of the wrong thing. These things arn't that twinkish... or really twinkish at all, with the possible exception of tumbling Gelatinous Cubes, which haven't manifested themselves yet.WotC did feature a fiendish gelatinous cube monk a while back. Might make sense there... or at least, no less sense than the beastie in the first place. Could be an interesting way of getting the Envelop off.