Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 10:34 AM	Fights of the Week: August 8th Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindwandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool used to suffice until it got taken down without giving us proper notification... the Nerve Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Recent News and Developments Lighting Effects are now in place. If you haven't purchased or prepared accordingly, you do so at your own risk. ECL5 and above only Also, monster/NPC equipment guidelines and the change to the GP value they are given have been changed. Ghosts can now spend one active week out of cycle to turn materials ethereal. Currently being discussed in the Council: Possible changes to the crafting rules. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
Zevox 08-08-07, 12:37 PM	Well, I just rolled the Denth battles and sent them to Pitlords. And damn, two of you guys are basically dead right now, and the third isn't going to have an easy time of it either. I'll look forward to reading those - mayhaps they'll help drive home the seriousness of the event that the RP is already indicating. Zevox
Erithmu 08-08-07, 12:50 PM	Thanks for the vote of confidence ...
lonewolf 08-08-07, 12:53 PM	Do we see enemy sheets for those Denth battles, or just the usual Monster information?
Zevox 08-08-07, 12:53 PM	Thanks for the vote of confidence ... *shrugs* Hey, Telin created the encounters, not me. I knew they were going to be evil incarnate just from that and a quick glance over them, but seeing the actual pairings puts it in perspective, you know? If it makes you feel any better, the EHTC is taking two attacks from this week's rolls, one right at our Guildhall. Zevox
Zevox 08-08-07, 12:55 PM	Do we see enemy sheets for those Denth battles, or just the usual Monster information? Monster info based on knowledge skills, as usual. All the relevant info about the attacks was posted in the Guildhall here last week, in case you have more questions (and if you have some that doesn't answer, let me know so I can update it with the answers!). Zevox
lonewolf 08-08-07, 01:01 PM	The second is a change to paramilitary group attack rules that MWB and I discussed after the one last week. From now on, PMG operatives will have their sheets shown to their foes before the PC writes tactics, just like in a normal fight, and they must follow the 1/3 rule. However, they will use 36 point buy and PC wealth. Effectively, they are now more like a PC vs PC fight, rather than a monster fight. Simply put, during this event (which you could think of as an alternate version of the World Event), every week, there will be attacks on the Guilds by Denthians in much the way a para-military group would attack. looking at those two statements, it looks as if were allowed to see the sheets unless I am missing something. EDIT: I should learn to read something to the end ...
Erithmu 08-08-07, 01:02 PM	If I draw another one of Telin's Bone devils I think I'm going to have to find out where he lives ...
Rauul 08-08-07, 01:32 PM	If it makes you feel any better, the EHTC is taking two attacks from this week's rolls, one right at our Guildhall. Zevox They are attacking the Guild hall as Corrupter is Animating his new army???? we have anyone else Lvls 8-9... thats free to kill the monster... ?
Zevox 08-08-07, 01:39 PM	They are attacking the Guild hall as Corrupter is Animating his new army???? we have anyone else Lvls 8-9... thats free to kill the monster... ? Oh, everyone but Jonathan is free, and anyone can defend us, its just a matter of picking who. Corruptor could certainly give it a go if he wants, though I think we'd send him to defend the less vital structure (no offense, but these are Telin monsters, and Corruptor's record isn't exactly inspiring). Mayhaps Chameleon for the other - she just rejoined, so I'm sure she'd like to get involved again. If I draw another one of Telin's Bone devils I think I'm going to have to find out where he lives ... Not a Bone Devil, no. But you still won't like it. Zevox
Erithmu 08-08-07, 01:41 PM	Not a Bone Devil, no. But you still won't like it. ZevoxIs it bigger than a breadbox? ;) I'm sure his Bone Devil is on the ECL 9 list ...
Macbrea 08-08-07, 01:41 PM	Also, monster/NPC equipment guidelines and the change to the GP value they are given have been changed. So, a NPC wizard must be at least 8th level to have a 1st level wand? That seems alittle excessive.
Erithmu 08-08-07, 01:43 PM	So, a NPC wizard must be at least 16th level to have a 1st level wand? That seems alittle excessive. Try 8th ... I think you moved the decimal too far ... Ninja'd
Zevox 08-08-07, 01:45 PM	Is it bigger than a breadbox? ;) I'm sure his Bone Devil is on the ECL 9 list ... Of course. (I'll let you decide which one I was answering :P .) Zevox
Erithmu 08-08-07, 01:47 PM	CR 9 psicrystal ... interesting ... Bold ... I like it ...
Zevox 08-08-07, 01:48 PM	CR 9 psicrystal ... interesting ... Bold ... I like it ... :heehee
Eamane 08-08-07, 01:49 PM	Re: Lighting Hmm. I thought the lighting was going to be ECL 4+ ... did that change? =/ I didn't do training hall changes for my character as I thought they would finish their cycle without being affected. Oh well.
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 02:00 PM	*shrugs* Hey, Telin created the encounters, not me. I knew they were going to be evil incarnate just from that and a quick glance over them, but seeing the actual pairings puts it in perspective, you know? If it makes you feel any better, the EHTC is taking two attacks from this week's rolls, one right at our Guildhall. Zevox Just so everyone is crystal clear on this my purpose behind the event was to cause some actual destruction to the guilds. The current incarnation (multiple attacks each week for multiple weeks) is actually, in some ways much nastier than the original incarnation (multiple attacks against each guild all in one week). But my purpose has always been to get some destruction going. Even if that destruction should occur at CEF - I am willing to take that hit for the story! These will be tougher than monster fights because the creature(s) are on maps that "work" for them (so I don't have to worry too much about flyers or other similar things versus creatures that don't have those capabilities). That said, many of the opponents are potential opponents already on the monster list But Zevox's assessment is pretty much correct. The opponents that have been drawn up are very difficult for the people they have been paired up against - particularly if the player doesn't have the knowledge to identify it. Good luck to everyone. If I draw another one of Telin's Bone devils I think I'm going to have to find out where he lives ... Is it bigger than a breadbox? ;) I'm sure his Bone Devil is on the ECL 9 list ... If you knew me, you'd find out very quickly that the bone devil was one of my favorite creatures in 3.0 and they only got nastier in 3.5. The 3.0 campaign I was running last year had an overriding arc of devils trying to take over the mainland - and bone devils were some of the most frequent oppressors... So I'll tell you in no uncertain terms - that at least one bone devil will creep up just on the luck of the draw...
Macbrea 08-08-07, 02:00 PM	Oh, silly question about the lighting rules. Are the effects of lighting assumed to be in effect for the entire time of the fight hours roll or is the contestant considered to be in their dressing room waiting to go out to the arena? Example: 6 hour roll, Daylight. Does this mean Yorick the derro is -6 constitution walking into the arena? Or has he spent that time in his dressing room out of direct sunlight.
templer10 08-08-07, 02:01 PM	Oh, everyone but Jonathan is free, and anyone can defend us, its just a matter of picking who. Corruptor could certainly give it a go if he wants, though I think we'd send him to defend the less vital structure (no offense, but these are Telin monsters, and Corruptor's record isn't exactly inspiring). Mayhaps Chameleon for the other - she just rejoined, so I'm sure she'd like to get involved again. Not a Bone Devil, no. But you still won't like it. Zevox hey - a suggestion for the whole theme of the denth attacks - i wonder if non guild affiliated charcters would be able to "pitch in" and help survive those attacks - you can ad hoc decide to hire them as merceneries (with the usuall gp/xp gain for a fight) - some (like me) dont like to RP all the time (guild) but would mind pitching in for the right incentive.
Erithmu 08-08-07, 02:02 PM	Psicrystals as characters ... sort of ... (Hey Hogarth is spotted in this one too ...)
MindWandererB 08-08-07, 02:16 PM	Re: Lighting Hmm. I thought the lighting was going to be ECL 4+ ... did that change? =/ I didn't do training hall changes for my character as I thought they would finish their cycle without being affected. Oh well.No, you're right. I forgot to specify that. I'll add that later today, and yes, ECL 3 is excempt. Oh, silly question about the lighting rules. Are the effects of lighting assumed to be in effect for the entire time of the fight hours roll or is the contestant considered to be in their dressing room waiting to go out to the arena? Example: 6 hour roll, Daylight. Does this mean Yorick the derro is -6 constitution walking into the arena? Or has he spent that time in his dressing room out of direct sunlight.Good question. Should be option 1....
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 02:19 PM	What's option 1?
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 02:21 PM	hey - a suggestion for the whole theme of the denth attacks - i wonder if non guild affiliated charcters would be able to "pitch in" and help survive those attacks - you can ad hoc decide to hire them as merceneries (with the usuall gp/xp gain for a fight) - some (like me) dont like to RP all the time (guild) but would mind pitching in for the right incentive. Currently that's not an option. If you do want to get involved though - it is not too late to miniquest for membership and then defend after that. This event is not going to be over in the short term...
Macbrea 08-08-07, 02:46 PM	So, this means that all vampire characters loose automaticly before they get to the arena, if daylight is rolled. Good to know.
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 03:34 PM	Also - in case anyone wants to volunteer - it looks like we are once again a little light on the pitlord roster this week. @MWB - since the Denth attacks are causing three new fights, might as well increase my load by one this week too.
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 04:48 PM	Well - tactics are written and ready to go... GO GO DENTH HORDE GO GO <clap> <clap> (Sorry I seem to be in a cheerleader mood... I blame it on my wife)
Erithmu 08-08-07, 04:50 PM	Awesome ... I can't tell from Zevox's earlier comments if I'm one of the really dead ones or the 'mostly' dead. Btw ... will we get to know what map we are on for those fights or is it a custom map?
Rauul 08-08-07, 04:51 PM	Also - in case anyone wants to volunteer - it looks like we are once again a little light on the pitlord roster this week. @MWB - since the Denth attacks are causing three new fights, might as well increase my load by one this week too. I think 3 + 1 miniquest is my limit.. (if no miniquest i can do a 4th)
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 04:54 PM	Awesome ... I can't tell from Zevox's earlier comments if I'm one of the really dead ones or the 'mostly' dead. Btw ... will we get to know what map we are on for those fights or is it a custom map? The map should be listed with the pairings. Also - I'm hoping that the bulk of the Denth fights are run by a third party (since I am probably more personally invested in the Denth fights than even my own characters...). I can provide knowledge info now if you like though...
Erithmu 08-08-07, 04:58 PM	Apparently I'm doomed so why not .. K(A) 5 ...
hogarth 08-08-07, 04:59 PM	I can provide knowledge info now if you like though... I'd be interested. (Treetall has Nature +10 and Planes +3.)
lonewolf 08-08-07, 05:02 PM	Im also interested. Karen has only Knowledge(psionics) +11 though...
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 05:03 PM	Oh don't worry - I've already checked the knowledges... no one has anything useful ironically... Torel faces 2 medium bipeds in the sewer. Treetall faces 2 small flying quadrupeds in the city. Karen faces one large bad-*** in the temple. Karen's is difficult to describe without giving it away - but it is not a biped, quadruped or multi-ped...
hogarth 08-08-07, 05:06 PM	Oh don't worry - I've already checked the knowledges... no one has anything useful ironically... Torel faces 2 medium bipeds in the sewer. Treetall faces 2 small flying quadrupeds in the city. Karen faces one large bad-*** in the temple. Just to clarify -- Treetall's creature(s) are not templated versions of something "knowable" via K: Nature or K: Planes; otherwise he could identify the base creature's type, correct?
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 05:08 PM	Correct. If the creature is templated and if that base creature had a type that was knowable due to knowledge nature or knowledge the planes - you might have more information. However, you don't...
templer10 08-08-07, 05:11 PM	Correct. If the creature is templated and if that base creature had a type that was knowable due to knowledge nature or knowledge the planes - you might have more information. However, you don't... and yet i do have a feeling it will be SOMETHING templeted.... nothing beats a good increase in power for a low rise in CR like a templete.
MindWandererB 08-08-07, 05:11 PM	Pairings are done. Apparently the Denthians brought friends... the city is overrun by monsters! Credits: Erithmu F1 Q2 Q-1 A-2 lonewolf F3 Q2 Malither76 F1 Q2 Rauul F4 A-1 TelinArtho F3 G1 Q4 Q-1 A-2 Templer10 F4 A-2 Zevox F4 A1 G1 MindWandererB A2 G1 A-2 NiQil A1 A-1 SauroGrenom A1 G1 TheMagister G1 Vathelokai F1 A1 G1 Q2 Key: F=Fight, Q=Quest, C=Campaign, G=Guildmaster, A=Admin or Active Characters
lonewolf 08-08-07, 05:17 PM	The Chameleon vs Retikos and Samuel vs Gaston Are both rematches from 2 weeks ago. Any chance to change this? EDIT: for example, Samuel or Gaston could face 2 of Templers ECL9 guys, reducing the number of fights by one.
templer10 08-08-07, 05:19 PM	3! monster fights in 1 week? where all the ECL 9 peeps sigh... (or ecl 7's for inter league).
MindWandererB 08-08-07, 05:23 PM	The Chameleon vs Retikos and Samuel vs Gaston Are both rematches from 2 weeks ago. Any chance to change this? EDIT: for example, Samuel or Gaston could face 2 of Templers ECL9 guys, reducing the number of fights by one. We had the pitlords, so no need to reduce the number of fights. Since the new maps were added, we don't prevent rematches from occurring unless they're on the same map. (See Aerryl and Asran's history--Zevox surrendered to her one week because he had no chance, then beat her the next week.)
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 05:24 PM	The monster info for the three Denthian fights have been PMed. Tactics will be along shortly.
templer10 08-08-07, 05:28 PM	We had the pitlords, so no need to reduce the number of fights. Since the new maps were added, we don't prevent rematches from occurring unless they're on the same map. (See Aerryl and Asran's history--Zevox surrendered to her one week because he had no chance, then beat her the next week.) yes but why do more mosnter fights which for me at least are no fun at all when there is an alterntive- i mean if i got 1 okay - but 3? (p.s and i acnt not activate them if i want to get out of the ecl 9 range).
Erithmu 08-08-07, 05:35 PM	*sigh* After seeing Treetall's monster ... I think he got the one that isn't an auto win.
hogarth 08-08-07, 05:36 PM	and yet i do have a feeling it will be SOMETHING templeted.... nothing beats a good increase in power for a low rise in CR like a templete. My guess? Dragons. Fun, fun, fun!
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 05:38 PM	*sigh* After seeing Treetall's monster ... I think he got the one that isn't an auto win. To be fair - I don't think Torel's is an auto-win for the Denth side, but it certainly is more difficult than Treetall's... That said - all tactics have been sent for the Denth fights.
MindWandererB 08-08-07, 05:43 PM	yes but why do more mosnter fights which for me at least are no fun at all when there is an alterntive- i mean if i got 1 okay - but 3? (p.s and i acnt not activate them if i want to get out of the ecl 9 range). All right, I'll buckle to the pressure. Since lonewolf won his last fight against Gaston but wants a re-pair anyway, I suppose it's fair enough. Elrick Flamebrother (templer10) vs. Unknown Monster : lonewolf [Cavern] Samuel Highground[ECL 11] (lonewolf) vs. Longshot (templer10) and Lord Lorian (templer10) : Zevox [Sewer] [Inter-League] Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Unknown Monster : TelinArtho [Plains]No change in credits, since Zevox trades 2 fights for an Inter-League.
templer10 08-08-07, 05:49 PM	All right, I'll buckle to the pressure. Since lonewolf won his last fight against Gaston but wants a re-pair anyway, I suppose it's fair enough. Elrick Flamebrother (templer10) vs. Unknown Monster : lonewolf [Cavern] Samuel Highground[ECL 11] (lonewolf) vs. Longshot (templer10) and Lord Lorian (templer10) : Zevox [Sewer] [Inter-League] Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Unknown Monster : TelinArtho [Plains]No change in credits, since Zevox trades 2 fights for an Inter-League. cool ty - now i have to go read up on incorporeal traits lol - should be fun. :)
lonewolf 08-08-07, 05:54 PM	@MWB: ty @Templer: monster Info for Elrick is up.
Macbrea 08-08-07, 05:55 PM	Tactics for Lord Frost have been sent.
TelinArtho 08-08-07, 05:55 PM	And I've altered the monster info for Longshot to monster info for Gaston
Rauul 08-08-07, 05:58 PM	@tempar10 Tactics for Gortek vs Diana Valassar Sent.. Pm with any questions..
Hirumajoe 08-08-07, 06:18 PM	@Templer10: Tactics for Valen Sky versus Lord Frost have been sent. I guessing that fight is going to be short and to the point...
Rauul 08-08-07, 06:21 PM	Felice tu'Ria (Salrantol) vs. Unknown Monster... Monster info is Up... good luck..
Rauul 08-08-07, 06:23 PM	Will run all fights as soon as i get the tactics... so get yea tactics in :)
Zevox 08-08-07, 06:25 PM	*sigh* After seeing Treetall's monster ... I think he got the one that isn't an auto win. You guessed it. Honestly, I think Torel is in the worst situation - the map is a hindrance due to his animal companion choice, and either of his two foes would be a challenge in their own right. Together - well, good luck, you're gonna need it. Zevox
Eamane 08-08-07, 06:27 PM	@Rauul Tactics for Kykal sent. Who would have thought that I would have to have a cunning battleplan to win with a barbarian? @Zevox Tactics for Eamane sent. Rather the opposite of Kykal's, simplicity itself.
Zevox 08-08-07, 06:51 PM	Karen's Denthian fight is set up and ready. Being blind to what the foe is will really hurt her I'm afraid. Zevox
MindWandererB 08-08-07, 06:51 PM	You guessed it. Honestly, I think Torel is in the worst situation - the map is a hindrance due to his animal companion choice, and either of his two foes would be a challenge in their own right. Together - well, good luck, you're gonna need it. Zevox And he hasn't trained his new dire wolf yet... this is exactly the situation why I recommended he get it in the first place! Well, I guess we'll see. I foresee using a lot of CAPs for Process CON to Repair in the not-too-distant future....
Zevox 08-08-07, 06:55 PM	And he hasn't trained his new dire wolf yet... this is exactly the situation why I recommended he get it in the first place! Well, I guess we'll see. I foresee using a lot of CAPs for Process CON to Repair in the not-too-distant future.... Speaking of which, something Telin brought up last week I was curious about but haven't had time to look into - might we make these Denthian attacks strike with a PR higher than 1000 (the default PMG PR for damaging attacks)? Seems something higher would be more appropriate, especially if we want them to be a serious threat (since otherwise any fair defense score reduces the damage to a less significant amount). Zevox
Erithmu 08-08-07, 07:47 PM	@Zevox: you need to stop inadvertently giving away hints. About the only thing I have going for me is the fact that I can use the rest of my spells ...
lonewolf 08-08-07, 08:05 PM	The information that my enemy is neither a biped, Quatruped or Multiped actually does limit the possibilities. I am either looking at something with a snakelike body(Naga, Salamander), something amorphous(oozes), something with three feet(Xorn) or something flying without legs(Beholder, Air Elemental). Also i know its not psionic, since I have ranks there. Now I just have to go through the MM and take a look what kind of creatures are large and of the correct CR(or could be with templates). Looks like this is gonna be a long night... :bored:
Macbrea 08-08-07, 08:25 PM	Your other choices if phasm.
lonewolf 08-08-07, 08:27 PM	not large. At least not in its natural form, and I hope that is what I get described...
Macbrea 08-08-07, 08:28 PM	strange.. at CR 10 it would be 27 HD gargantuan...
NiQil 08-08-07, 09:39 PM	@ Rauul: Tactics for Tiris Rush sent via PM @ TelinArtho: Tactics for War Messiah sent via PM @ Rauul: Tactics for War Monster sent via PM
Zevox 08-08-07, 10:08 PM	@ templer10 - Tactics for Kathren Durrol (vs Atemu) PMed. A rematch where the map makes little difference - kinda dull. Also, I'll try to get Mithos' tactics to you tomorrow, but expect them at night rather than during the day, since I work most of that day. Zevox
hogarth 08-08-07, 10:08 PM	strange.. at CR 10 it would be 27 HD gargantuan... The advancement line for the phasm is messed up -- if it's correct, then adding 0 HD to a phasm raises it by two size categories!
lonewolf 08-08-07, 10:10 PM	@Telin: The Chameleons tactics sent @Zevox: Karens tactics sent. I will do Samuels tomorrow. Can now anyone please tell me what Karen is facing? :rolleyes:
Erithmu 08-09-07, 12:53 AM	@Lonewolf: Torel's tactics out. Lets see how bad this is ...
lonewolf 08-09-07, 06:32 AM	@Erithmu: monsters and monster tactics posted.
Callix 08-09-07, 06:57 AM	@ Rauul, TelinArtho: Tactics for Rennae vs Kykal Aiba and Ralein vs War Messiah sent.
hogarth 08-09-07, 07:08 AM	@Erithmu: Tactics sent for Treetall Oakleg. Probably not what you're expecting, but it could work...
Erithmu 08-09-07, 09:22 AM	@Lonewolf: Glad I put in some Denth summoner tactics (thanks Zevox). Now All I need is some luck. @Hogarth: I think you have a better chance than you think due to Telin's tactics. @Telin: a DC 15 hold person vs Torels +16? ... Really?
TelinArtho 08-09-07, 09:59 AM	I admit I was a bit out of it last night... I must have missed his saving throw - but anyway. This is just the first set of attacks - so there's still plenty of time for destruction in the weeks to come...
Erithmu 08-09-07, 10:19 AM	Treetall vs the Denth Fiendish Dragons is up here.
hogarth 08-09-07, 10:27 AM	Treetall vs the Denth Fiendish Dragons is up here. It would have been a lot harder on the Plains map...
TelinArtho 08-09-07, 10:28 AM	Nicely done Treetall. Taking advantage of the maximum height apparently was a great tactic. Nicely done. Of course... don't expect to win like that again...
Sjiggie 08-09-07, 10:48 AM	@templer10 tactics for Diana Valassar (vs Gortek) have been sent. -Sjiggie
TelinArtho 08-09-07, 04:50 PM	Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs 3 Efreeti (Unknown Monsters) is up.
waywreth 08-09-07, 04:56 PM	@Telin - How do Efreeti cast dispel magic? Efreeti Spell-Like Abilities: At will—detect magic, produce flame, pyrotechnics (DC 15), scorching ray (1 ray only); 3/day—invisibility, wall of fire (DC 17); 1/day—grant up to three wishes (to nongenies only), gaseous form, permanent image (DC 19), polymorph (self only). Caster level 12th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
templer10 08-09-07, 05:07 PM	Zevox - tactics for the psionics Due vs samuel are out - i had to be a lot more creative then usaull - damn incorporeal types....
templer10 08-09-07, 05:08 PM	Question - when fighting an unbodied as a monster - the dexription say "typical powers known" - can i assume those are the powers it will have?
Erithmu 08-09-07, 05:21 PM	@Telin - How do Efreeti cast dispel magic? Efreeti Spell-Like Abilities: At will—detect magic, produce flame, pyrotechnics (DC 15), scorching ray (1 ray only); 3/day—invisibility, wall of fire (DC 17); 1/day—grant up to three wishes (to nongenies only), gaseous form, permanent image (DC 19), polymorph (self only). Caster level 12th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.Telin is slipping ... must be doing lots this week @T10: as a Pitlord ... I might switch out one or two powers/spells ... I would probably give it its other 1st lvl power and then probably switch out either charm or read thoughts ... but that is just me I would probably say that you can assume that 80% of those powers are there. It also depends on how much time the pitlord has to mess around with the monster.
TelinArtho 08-09-07, 05:33 PM	As said in the PM - it was a "super-secret spell-like ability..." Anyway - I have edited the fight and the result has changed. Sorry about the minor heart-attack there buddy.
MindWandererB 08-09-07, 05:39 PM	Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs 3 Efreeti (Unknown Monsters) is up. However, a point in the efreet's favor: If the creature has both resistance and vulnerability to the same kind of damage, apply the resistance (which reduces the damage dealt by the effect) before applying the vulnerability (which increases the damage taken by the creature). For example, imagine our frost giant wore a ring of minor fire resistance (granting resistance to fire 10). If the save failed, the frost giant would take 37 points of fire damage: 35 (fireball) – 10 (resistance to fire 10) = 25, plus one-half of 25 (12.5, rounded down to 12). If the save succeeded, the frost giant would take only 10 points of damage: 17 (half damage from the fireball, rounded down) – 10 (resistance to fire 10) = 7, plus one-half of 7 (3.5, rounded down to 3). As a general guideline, whenever the rules don’t stipulate an order of operations for special effects (such as spells or special abilities), you should apply them in the order that’s most beneficial to the creature. In the case of damage, this typically means applying any damage-reducing effects first, before applying any effects that would increase damage.
TelinArtho 08-09-07, 05:49 PM	Heh - I was looking for something about that... Thanks @waywreth - apparently its not over yet (well - it might be - I need to check again...)
TelinArtho 08-09-07, 05:59 PM	Edit in again and fight result changes again.
MindWandererB 08-09-07, 06:19 PM	@templer and lonewolf: Tactics for Maya and Gakhnalak, respectively, have been sent.
templer10 08-09-07, 06:36 PM	lonewolf - tactics for lady liara are out - and men oh men do i need to get a +ride skill item...
templer10 08-10-07, 08:22 AM	Valen sky vs lord frost is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13366285&postcount=1200)- not a huge suprise there
lonewolf 08-10-07, 09:25 AM	@Zevox: Samuels tactics are out.
templer10 08-10-07, 09:32 AM	Diana vs gortek is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13366568&postcount=1201) - never seen such wierd dice luck
Zevox 08-10-07, 12:25 PM	@ templer10 - Tactics for Mithos Durrol (vs Maya Redwine) have been PMed. Fingers crossed. Zevox
Rauul 08-10-07, 12:26 PM	Diana vs gortek is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13366568&postcount=1201) - never seen such wierd dice luck Closer than what i expected... Bad dmg rolls for me.. Thank you for the run
lonewolf 08-10-07, 12:30 PM	Torel vs Denth is up. Gladius vs Denth 2:0
Erithmu 08-10-07, 12:49 PM	Torel vs Denth is up. Gladius vs Denth 2:0 :ayyyy!: Thats what I like to see ... Thanks Lonewolf PS: I'm rooting for Karen
Zevox 08-10-07, 12:52 PM	Torel vs Denth is up. Gladius vs Denth 2:0 Looks like you forgot something important: the Kyton has SR 18. It can ignore Torel's spells about half the time. Zevox
lonewolf 08-10-07, 12:57 PM	Looks like you forgot something important: the Kyton has SR 18. It can ignore Torel's spells about half the time. Zevox No I did check for SR, but I think Call Lightning only checkes once if is resisted or not and not each time the lightning hits, isnt it?
TelinArtho 08-10-07, 12:58 PM	I already looked and he made the SR versus the lightning and the first Flame strike and the Kyton resisted the other one. No complaints from me. As far as I see - everything just worked out well. Those 2 rounds of useless spells (doom and hold person...) really cost the cleric. That and being too close together so they both got hit by the flame strikes... @lonewolf - correct. You check once for a spell and once it succeeds it succeeds for all of that one casting. If it fails on the first check, they all fail.
TelinArtho 08-10-07, 01:02 PM	I'm still waiting on a monster roll for Kraegin from Malither - but with his spotty attendance (due to RL issues), I'm not sure he'll get it in time for me to write tactics... I guess I'll just wait and see - but @MWB - can I get a ruling on leniency of tactics in this case. You all know that I don't tend to login on the weekends for much time (and this weekend less than that - since I have a poker tournament from mid-afternoon Saturday until sometime Sunday...)
Hirumajoe 08-10-07, 01:43 PM	Valen sky vs lord frost is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13366285&postcount=1200)- not a huge suprise there Thanks for the run. And now... Valen gets to level to ECl 11. And access to Hide in plain sight. Is it wrong to have a 10' tall troll hiding in a medium sized opponent's shadow? :)
hogarth 08-10-07, 02:51 PM	Torel vs Denth is up. Luckily the chain devil brought along a silver chain. Otherwise Torel would have nothing that could do lethal damage to the devil. I suppose he could have dragged it to the pool of toxic waste in the hope that it would drown before regaining consciousness...
MindWandererB 08-10-07, 02:56 PM	I'm still waiting on a monster roll for Kraegin from Malither - but with his spotty attendance (due to RL issues), I'm not sure he'll get it in time for me to write tactics... I guess I'll just wait and see - but @MWB - can I get a ruling on leniency of tactics in this case. You all know that I don't tend to login on the weekends for much time (and this weekend less than that - since I have a poker tournament from mid-afternoon Saturday until sometime Sunday...)Well, as always, this is up to the pitlord, but Malither isn't an unreasonable guy. He won't have you forfeit because he didn't give you your monster.Torel vs Denth is up. Gladius vs Denth 2:0There is one problem, but I don't think it matters much. Dire bats can't fly in the sewers--they need 20 feet of clearance. That makes Sinwa's movement in round 6 impossible. However, it could move part of the way, and since Torel has a move remaining, he could move to behind Sinwa himself.
lonewolf 08-10-07, 03:54 PM	Elrick vs 4 Unbodied is up nasty just nasty...
waywreth 08-10-07, 04:11 PM	Elrick vs 4 Unbodied is up nasty just nasty... Ego Whip? :rolleyes:
lonewolf 08-10-07, 05:31 PM	Dire bats can't fly in the sewers--they need 20 feet of clearance. Do you have any rule reference for this? Because I dont find anything.
TelinArtho 08-10-07, 05:40 PM	Do you have any rule reference for this? Because I dont find anything. One of Cat's last house rules - look under Rules of Gladius: House Rules. Flight (winged): Creatures with wings need twice their horizontal base to pass by an obstacle or fly through a narrow passage.
lonewolf 08-10-07, 05:46 PM	:pbbbtt: I will get on it after I finish my 3rd fight.
templer10 08-10-07, 08:49 PM	Elrick vs 4 Unbodied is up nasty just nasty... sorry m8- but i have a serius bone to pick here- and i would like some elder opinions here - Unbodied has a list of typical powers known - some of which are not so good - so what you did here - is lose the 3 least usefull and gave it argubly the 2 best level 1 powers the what is considered the most broken Level 2 power - Ego whip - especially when there are 4 of them.. if it was 1 of the unbodied given those set of power i suppose it's okay - But all 4 of them is most definently not fair and is an autowin - especially since there is simply no way to defend against ego whip. in here and for this - IMHO - this is a wrongly done fight - dealing with 4 unbodied in the best of conditions is hard even with their powers is hard dealing them with vigor, force screen and ego whiP? tell me any char currently in the ECL 9 range that can win? as i said - i would like elder opinions here - and a rematch- this simply isnt fair and is a CLASSIC CASE OF GLADIATOR VS PITLORD AND NOT GLADIATOR VS MONSTERS:mad:
templer10 08-10-07, 08:50 PM	One of Cat's last house rules - look under Rules of Gladius: House Rules. btw - can that be debated again since it has absolutly no basis in the RAW and is more or less pulled out cat's a....
Hirumajoe 08-10-07, 09:04 PM	sorry m8- but i have a serius bone to pick here- and i would like some elder opinions here - Unbodied has a list of typical powers known - some of which are not so good - so what you did here - is lose the 3 least usefull and gave it argubly the 2 best level 1 powers the what is considered the most broken Level 2 power - Ego whip - especially when there are 4 of them.. if it was 1 of the unbodied given those set of power i suppose it's okay - But all 4 of them is most definently not fair and is an autowin - especially since there is simply no way to defend against ego whip. in here and for this - IMHO - this is a wrongly done fight - dealing with 4 unbodied in the best of conditions is hard even with their powers is hard dealing them with vigor, force screen and ego whiP? tell me any char currently in the ECL 9 range that can win? as i said - i would like elder opinions here - and a rematch- this simply isnt fair and is a CLASSIC CASE OF GLADIATOR VS PITLORD AND NOT GLADIATOR VS MONSTERS:mad: Try going up against a Huge Earth Elemental in the sewers. And in that case, there's no pitlord call at all in terms of equipment, but is effectively an autoloss against anyone in ECL 9 (unless you happen to be packing Dismissal). And as far being immune to Ego whip, just be untargetable. A wizard at ECL 9 has access to Greater Invisibility. Give him an ECL 9 wand of magic missiles, and voila, instant win against 4 Unbodied (assuming he can get the invisibility off first...). As I understand it, when given options, pitlords should outfit monsters/npcs like characters would be. And the fact of the matter is, most psions have Ego Whip, Force Screen and Vigor. I'll bet there isn't a single psion character in the CoCo that doesn't have at least one of those.
MindWandererB 08-10-07, 09:05 PM	sorry m8- but i have a serius bone to pick here- and i would like some elder opinions here - Unbodied has a list of typical powers known - some of which are not so good - so what you did here - is lose the 3 least usefull and gave it argubly the 2 best level 1 powers the what is considered the most broken Level 2 power - Ego whip - especially when there are 4 of them.. if it was 1 of the unbodied given those set of power i suppose it's okay - But all 4 of them is most definently not fair and is an autowin - especially since there is simply no way to defend against ego whip. in here and for this - IMHO - this is a wrongly done fight - dealing with 4 unbodied in the best of conditions is hard even with their powers is hard dealing them with vigor, force screen and ego whiP? tell me any char currently in the ECL 9 range that can win? as i said - i would like elder opinions here - and a rematch- this simply isnt fair and is a CLASSIC CASE OF GLADIATOR VS PITLORD AND NOT GLADIATOR VS MONSTERS:mad:We can take it to the Council... and in fact I raised this point once before but it was never addressed... but as things stand there's nothing illegal about lonewolf's choice. The SRD does say "typical," and there's nothing to imply that it would be fixed with that list. I've added this as a Council topic, but there's nothing to do about it ATM.btw - can that be debated again since it has absolutly no basis in the RAW and is more or less pulled out cat's a....I have mixed feelings about it. Cat does have a good point in that it makes a lot of sense. A creature with a 20' wingspan should not be able to fly in a 10' corridor. That was also one of the main intentions in creating these small maps. On the other hand, it is indeed a total house rule. I have a slight preference for keeping it as it is (on the "only a squid for a GM would allow it in a TT game" grounds), but I'm willing to listen to other opinions.
NiQil 08-10-07, 09:10 PM	We can take it to the Council... and in fact I raised this point once before but it was never addressed... but as things stand there's nothing illegal about lonewolf's choice. The SRD does say "typical," and there's nothing to imply that it would be fixed with that list. I've added this as a Council topic, but there's nothing to do about it ATM.I have mixed feelings about it. Cat does have a good point in that it makes a lot of sense. A creature with a 20' wingspan should not be able to fly in a 10' corridor. That was also one of the main intentions in creating these small maps. On the other hand, it is indeed a total house rule. I have a slight preference for keeping it as it is (on the "only a squid for a GM would allow it in a TT game" grounds), but I'm willing to listen to other opinions. I would wholeheartedly agree to do away with that houserule about the vertical base. I never understood the reasoning behind the rule, as the 10 x 10 space of a large creature is meant to encompass the entire body of him...whether it's wings or tail or claws or blue-plaid ears the size of my arm. So put me down for overturning that rule.
lonewolf 08-10-07, 09:10 PM	sorry m8- but i have a serius bone to pick here- and i would like some elder opinions here - Unbodied has a list of typical powers known - some of which are not so good - so what you did here - is lose the 3 least usefull and gave it argubly the 2 best level 1 powers the what is considered the most broken Level 2 power - Ego whip - especially when there are 4 of them.. if it was 1 of the unbodied given those set of power i suppose it's okay - But all 4 of them is most definently not fair and is an autowin - especially since there is simply no way to defend against ego whip. in here and for this - IMHO - this is a wrongly done fight - dealing with 4 unbodied in the best of conditions is hard even with their powers is hard dealing them with vigor, force screen and ego whiP? tell me any char currently in the ECL 9 range that can win? as i said - i would like elder opinions here - and a rematch- this simply isnt fair and is a CLASSIC CASE OF GLADIATOR VS PITLORD AND NOT GLADIATOR VS MONSTERS:mad: While Kitty with her SR can probably beat them, thats not the point. I see my job as pitlord in monster fights also to optimize the monsters and their tactics, since noone else does this. In this special case its quite simple: If the Unbodied have Ego Whip they win. If they dont they lose. I know that this is very harsh, but thats the way Monster fights are in CoCo. more often than not they are either autowins or autolosses. If that helps you in any way, I´ve also been handed my share of autolosses against monsters here. link1, link2, link3 However if MWB agrees that I overdid monster optimization in this case, I will do a rerun without Ego Whip. EDIT: He posted while I wrote this and it doesnt seem to think so....
templer10 08-10-07, 09:12 PM	Try going up against a Huge Earth Elemental in the sewers. And in that case, there's no pitlord call at all in terms of equipment, but is effectively an autoloss against anyone in ECL 9 (unless you happen to be packing Dismissal). And as far being immune to Ego whip, just be untargetable. A wizard at ECL 9 has access to Greater Invisibility. Give him an ECL 9 wand of magic missiles, and voila, instant win against 4 Unbodied (assuming he can get the invisibility off first...). As I understand it, when given options, pitlords should outfit monsters/npcs like characters would be. And the fact of the matter is, most psions have Ego Whip, Force Screen and Vigor. I'll bet there isn't a single psion character in the CoCo that doesn't have at least one of those. the point of the matter - is theat beside the fact that simply no one (almost) can win vs all those ego whips - you are right that most psions have 1 or more of these powers- but in here all 4! psions had ALL these powers - if 1 or 2 of them had it it would still probably have meant a loss- but at least i had a chance - here not like a fight when the monster is simply rolled as a huge earth elemental - the Pitlord as a CONSCIUS CHOICE - took a hard fight (with the 4 unbodied as written in teh SRD) and made it an IMPOSSIBLE fight - and yet i always thought we arent meant to fight the pitlords....
templer10 08-10-07, 09:16 PM	While Kitty with her SR can probably beat them, thats not the point. I see my job as pitlord in monster fights also to optimize the monsters and their tactics, since noone else does this. In this special case its quite simple: If the Unbodied have Ego Whip they win. If they dont they lose. I know that this is very harsh, but thats the way Monster fights are in CoCo. more often than not they are either autowins or autolosses. If that helps you in any way, I´ve also been handed my share of autolosses against monsters here. link1, link2, link3 However if MWB agrees that I overdid monster optimization in this case, I will do a rerun without Ego Whip. escuse me? why do they lose? they have energy push, they have bain lock, they have mind thrust- ALL very usefull powers - Brain lock alone can win a fight here and using 20 odd pps on mind thrust or energy push is a hell of a lot of damage, but anyway - what do the rest of you think - did lonewolf super optimize - in my opinion +vigor+foce scren + ego whip on 4! of them means a definante yes.
NiQil 08-10-07, 09:16 PM	the point of the matter - is theat beside the fact that simply no one (almost) can win vs all those ego whips - you are right that most psions have 1 or more of these powers- but in here all 4! psions had ALL these powers - if 1 or 2 of them had it it would still probably have meant a loss- but at least i had a chance - here not like a fight when the monster is simply rolled as a huge earth elemental - the Pitlord as a CONSCIUS CHOICE - took a hard fight (with the 4 unbodied as written in teh SRD) and made it an IMPOSSIBLE fight - and yet i always thought we arent meant to fight the pitlords.... While I don't necessarily agree with the choice of powers, as MWB stated, under the monster fight rules, nothing was done incorrectly. The pitlord has that discretion. My advice would be to chalk it up to a superior opponent or a bad roll of dice to get that opponent and move on. Even if this fight is exhibit A in the drive to change rule, it still doesn't change the rules as they stand now, which allow what was done.
Eamane 08-10-07, 09:20 PM	As far as the wing-span ruling goes... I'd suggest you guys keep it. Part of the whole point of that map is to make flying less effective and important in the battle. If you want, make it a special part of that map rather than a general house-rule, but keep it in one form or another. It makes sense, it supports a kind of battle (cramped dungeon) that happens IRL alot to increase our 'veracity' as a place to test character builds. Oh plus it's diversity, even if staying close to RL situations weren't important, diversity is still important. My 2 cents.
templer10 08-10-07, 09:21 PM	While I don't necessarily agree with the choice of powers, as MWB stated, under the monster fight rules, nothing was done incorrectly. The pitlord has that discretion. My advice would be to chalk it up to a superior opponent or a bad roll of dice to get that opponent and move on. Even if this fight is exhibit A in the drive to change rule, it still doesn't change the rules as they stand now, which allow what was done. might not been techincly illegal - but IS! IT! FAIR!!! - a monster fight - SHOULDNT BE AN AUTOLOSE TO THE GLADIATOR IF IT CAN BE AVOIDED. all i got to say, that if the result stands- ill just ask to pitlord all monster fights - then when the gladiator sends tactics (assuming it's not mindless) ill simply do the best job i can to win and not the best an avrage monster will, and you know what- the monster will win at a VERY high percentage of the times of the time - and my record about that stands for itself.
lonewolf 08-10-07, 09:29 PM	escuse me? why do they lose? they have energy push, they have bain lock, they have mind thrust- ALL very usefull powers - Brain lock alone can win a fight here and using 20 odd pps on mind thrust or energy push is a hell of a lot of damage, but anyway - what do the rest of you think - did lonewolf super optimize - in my opinion +vigor+foce scren + ego whip on 4! of them means a definante yes. Against Elrick Mind Thrust and Brain Lock are basically useless since he only fails on a natural one. And energy push could work but is most likely way too slow. I started optimizing Monsters the way I do because other pitlords did it in the monster fights I had. If monsters are optimized I think they should be optimized every time. BUT I agree that those autolosses against monsters are very frustrating(happend to me also, see links), so if it seems that these rules are about to be changed, ensuring fair fights for everyone from here on, I will change this fight.
hogarth 08-10-07, 09:30 PM	I still haven't heard any argument at all in favor of mandatory monster fights other than "I like monster fights and if I have to suffer through them, then everybody does!". What a crock. :pbbbtt:
templer10 08-10-07, 09:31 PM	Against Elrick Mind Thrust and Brain Lock are basically useless since he only fails on a natural one. And energy push could work but is most likely way too slow. I started optimizing Monsters the way I do because other pitlords did it in the monster fights I had. If monsters are optimized I think they should be optimized every time. BUT I agree that those autolosses against monsters are very frustrating(happend to me also, see links), so if it seems that these rules are about to be changed, ensuring fair fights for everyone from here on, I will change this fight. Dude- you ARENT SUPPOSED TO OPTIMIZE MONSTERS VS THE GLADIATOR THEY ARE MEANT TO FIGHT - what you posted here - means you did just that - and that my friend ISNT FINE.
lonewolf 08-10-07, 09:34 PM	I still haven't heard any argument at all in favor of mandatory monster fights other than "I like monster fights and if I have to suffer through them, then everybody does!". What a crock. :pbbbtt: The problem is that we need monster fights because most of the times there simply arent the right amount of gladiators in each league, so that there are gladiators left without enemy. I also dont like them, but they are necessary.
NiQil 08-10-07, 09:36 PM	might not been techincly illegal - but IS! IT! FAIR!!! - a monster fight - SHOULDNT BE AN AUTOLOSE TO THE GLADIATOR IF IT CAN BE AVOIDED. all i got to say, that if the result stands- ill just ask to pitlord all monster fights - then when the gladiator sends tactics (assuming it's not mindless) ill simply do the best job i can to win and not the best an avrage monster will, and you know what- the monster will win at a VERY high percentage of the times of the time - and my record about that stands for itself. Alright...first off...calm down. There's no need to get your panties in a bunch. And certainly no need to take it out on me after you asked for Elder opinion on the issue. There is nothing that I hate worse than being asked for my opinion and then told it is wrong. Secondly....can you kindly point me to the rules that state that monster fight shouldn't be an autoloss for the PC if it can be avoided? It all depends on the PC. Other PC's with the same draw could very easily succeed, as has already been demonstrated. The powers that were selected are staples of any psion worth his salt. Those are bread and butter powers. I personally don't see the issue with that. To put this another way.....would you still be as adamant about the change to the powers if you had won in spite of them? Somehow I doubt it. As I said....I recommend chalking it up to a bad draw (which we all get from time to time) and let it go. Nothing in this discussion is going to change the fight. It may change future fights, but not that one. It was done by the rules, and there is no reason to change it.
hogarth 08-10-07, 09:37 PM	The problem is that we need monster fights because most of the times there simply arent the right amount of gladiators in each league, so that there are gladiators left without enemy. I also dont like them, but they are necessary. No, they are not necessary. This was discussed at length in the Council -- it would be trivial to put a line in your sheet saying "No Monster Fights, Please". Then if a monster fight came up for your character, you would just go unpaired for the week. It would even free up pitlords (since there would be fewer fights).
lonewolf 08-10-07, 09:39 PM	Dude- you ARENT SUPPOSED TO OPTIMIZE MONSTERS VS THE GLADIATOR THEY ARE MEANT TO FIGHT - what you posted here - means you did just that - and that my friend ISNT FINE. I didnt choose Ego whip especially because I was fighting Elrick. I removed all powers that are useless in the arena and replaced them with combat-powers. And at lvl2 for an Telepath, Ego whip is a natural choice for your powers known. EDIT: I also didnt remove them from his powers known because they could be very useful against other opponents. What I wrote there was in response to you saying that they could have used Brain Lock Mindthrust and energy push AGAINST ELRIK to win. I say they couldnt and explained why. And I also suggest that you chill a little, since it seems that things are going your way anyway.
NiQil 08-10-07, 09:42 PM	No, they are not necessary. This was discussed at length in the Council -- it would be trivial to put a line in your sheet saying "No Monster Fights, Please". Then if a monster fight came up for your character, you would just go unpaired for the week. It would even free up pitlords (since there would be fewer fights). Until the first time someone with a monster fight complained about not being included in another fight and having it changed to a free for all or inter-league or something similar...especially if the other fighters had already sent tactics. That puts Pitlords in a bad position, random rolls or not.
hogarth 08-10-07, 09:48 PM	Until the first time someone with a monster fight complained about not being included in another fight and having it changed to a free for all or inter-league or something similar...especially if the other fighters had already sent tactics. That puts Pitlords in a bad position, random rolls or not. I have no idea what you're arguing here. People already complain to get out of monster fights. How would avoiding the monster fight altogether cause more complaining and put Pitlords in a worse position? :confused: (If you wish to discuss this, I'd be glad to do so in the Council thread, not here.)
NiQil 08-10-07, 09:51 PM	I have no idea what you're arguing here. People already complain to get out of monster fights. How would avoiding the monster fight altogether cause more complaining and put Pitlords in a worse position? :confused: (If you wish to discuss this, I'd be glad to do so in the Council thread, not here.) I'm talking about the difference between complaining to get out of a monster fight vs complaining to get out of a monster fight and in to another fight that has already been rolled. The first time that happens, the whole 'no monster fight' thing that you mentioned doesn't work.
TelinArtho 08-10-07, 10:39 PM	As to Elrick's fight - that is a common power to choose. I would see no reason to be in an uproar about it. Plus as has been stated, getting the rules changed is not going to happen for your fight - though it might be the catalyst for it. As for a reason to keep monster fights? Because they can provide a bit more variety here than just the 1v1 or other combinations we have. I may personally like them, but aside from that - they are part of the randomness that you build your characters for. Some people are focused on taking out one or two character types, some more. Others take into account the variety of monster fights to be better prepared. Frankly the characters who are better prepared for the monster fights - are mostly the ones who don't die on my quests. If you don't think there's a connection, well, frankly, pay 3 credits to avoid a quest the next time you need one.
templer10 08-10-07, 10:59 PM	As to Elrick's fight - that is a common power to choose. I would see no reason to be in an uproar about it. Plus as has been stated, getting the rules changed is not going to happen for your fight - though it might be the catalyst for it. As for a reason to keep monster fights? Because they can provide a bit more variety here than just the 1v1 or other combinations we have. I may personally like them, but aside from that - they are part of the randomness that you build your characters for. Some people are focused on taking out one or two character types, some more. Others take into account the variety of monster fights to be better prepared. Frankly the characters who are better prepared for the monster fights - are mostly the ones who don't die on my quests. If you don't think there's a connection, well, frankly, pay 3 credits to avoid a quest the next time you need one. you know - i was prepeared for ego whip - as far as a druid CAN prpeare for it - i packed lesser restoration scrolls and i have will save up the wazuu But simpl isnt anything you CAN do vs 4 ego whips..... otherwise then not being targetable which isnt possible to me and still be offensive and especially when i dont know they have ego whip
hogarth 08-10-07, 11:16 PM	As for a reason to keep monster fights? Because they can provide a bit more variety here than just the 1v1 or other combinations we have. I may personally like them, but aside from that - they are part of the randomness that you build your characters for. See, I just don't get this argument. "We have monster fights so that you're forced to build characters that can survive monster fights." That doesn't strike you as circular? (This really is not the place to argue this, though.)
lonewolf 08-10-07, 11:30 PM	you know - i was prepeared for ego whip - as far as a druid CAN prpeare for it - i packed lesser restoration scrolls and i have will save up the wazuu But simpl isnt anything you CAN do vs 4 ego whips..... otherwise then not being targetable which isnt possible to me and still be offensive and especially when i dont know they have ego whip again playing the devils advocate here, but there is one simple expendable that would have won you this fight: a potion of invisibility
Rauul 08-11-07, 02:21 AM	you know - i was prepeared for ego whip - as far as a druid CAN prpeare for it - i packed lesser restoration scrolls and i have will save up the wazuu But simpl isnt anything you CAN do vs 4 ego whips..... otherwise then not being targetable which isnt possible to me and still be offensive and especially when i dont know they have ego whip did you have the Knowledge (lore) to know what they had.. it's in the rules.. * No Ranks: Size and rough description (like 'huge monster') * 1+ Ranks: Size, Type, Description (huge magical beast with many heads) * Dc0+CR: Race (7-headed hydra) * Dc5+CR: Race, Subtypes, Class levels (7 headed Cryo-Hydra, no classes) * Dc10+CR: Race, Subtypes, Class levels, Equipment, Specials * Dc15+CR: All plus Tactic Nope he don't... so he don't have a ground to argue on.. Knowledge (Nature): +3 [0 Int, +2 (druid bonus) +1 rank (druid] Knowledge (arcane): +1[0 Int, +1 rank (cc)] Unlike players... you can't just look at a sheet and optimise the tactics.. Hence the reason people hate monster fights.. (i actually like them over arena fights)
TelinArtho 08-11-07, 02:43 AM	See, I just don't get this argument. "We have monster fights so that you're forced to build characters that can survive monster fights." That doesn't strike you as circular? (This really is not the place to argue this, though.) That's not what I said at all. I said it is part of the randomness that you can plan for. I don't say you have to. Much like some characters focus entirely on questing - some characters will focus entirely on 1v1 fights (and gripe when they get FFAs), while others will be more balanced. No one is forced to build one way or the other here, but that doesn't exempt you from the "basics" of the CoCo - the basics being arena fights and the occasional random monster fight.
Macbrea 08-11-07, 12:28 PM	The reason for the argument here is Templer10 has always argued Elrick's fights to the extreme. If they don't go his way he tries to batter the pitlord into submission. In this case, he was given a creatures with pretty much standard powers for a ECL 9 style Psion and it beat him. He assumed that the creature would be run straight out of the book even though his character doesn't have the knowledges to tell him what powers it's going to have.
templer10 08-11-07, 12:44 PM	Maya vs miths is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13378111&postcount=1206)
templer10 08-11-07, 12:51 PM	The reason for the argument here is Templer10 has always argued Elrick's fights to the extreme. If they don't go his way he tries to batter the pitlord into submission. In this case, he was given a creatures with pretty much standard powers for a ECL 9 style Psion and it beat him. He assumed that the creature would be run straight out of the book even though his character doesn't have the knowledges to tell him what powers it's going to have. hmm i only ever lost 2 fights with elrick (this being the second) and i actually didnt argue the first one at all since THAT one (fiendish young red dragon in the temple) really was just a bad draw (not the fight itself) althrough i did complain (like others) about the monster gear thing. i cant really remmber some other fith i "complained" and got the fight result changed - i think maybe one or two other fight was run with some mistakes and i asked for them to be corrected and they were. i complained here becuase i felt i was handed an unfair hand - not beucase of the roller but becuase a monster with already good chances to win was rolled and given a new set of abilities which made it an autowin. dont know what i did to you macbrea but i didnt do anything here that i didnt see many other peeps do - argue if they felt something wasnt done right.
Rauul 08-11-07, 01:11 PM	Felice tu`Ria VS Ettin Skeleton is here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13351856&postcount=1196) Was alot closer than I expected..Energy retort is nasty...
Rauul 08-11-07, 02:28 PM	WAR MONSTER VS VIVI is here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13368794&postcount=1202) Unless i messed up grapple ALOT.. it should be done...
NiQil 08-11-07, 04:13 PM	WAR MONSTER VS VIVI is here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13368794&postcount=1202) Unless i messed up grapple ALOT.. it should be done... One thing....in my tactics I specified that I wanted to engage him in melee as fast as possible when no Exp Retreat was in play. I thought it would be, but it wasn't. Since it wasn't there, I should have ran towards my opponent rather than move and fire as you had me do. The move and fire tactics was only for if Exp Retreat was in effect. Since he hadn't move, I had no way of knowing that it was or wasn't, but I did specify that I wanted to get him in to melee as quickly as possible. I shouldn't have wasted those opening rounds firing at him when I could have easily gotten to him faster.
Zevox 08-11-07, 04:18 PM	Maya vs miths is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13378111&postcount=1206) Big question - why on earth did Mithos waste so many rounds without attacking?? Even if he was out of range to cast immediately on a double-move, a simple readied action will allow him to cast afterward, and in any event he could have used his memorized magic missiles or his wand while doing that if Maya were out of ray range. Unless shes flat-out out of line-of-sight for all those rounds, which seems nigh impossible, there should be some spell blasting in there, and with how little hp Maya has by round 3 she should easily fall before Mithos gets beaten. Zevox
templer10 08-11-07, 04:52 PM	Big question - why on earth did Mithos waste so many rounds without attacking?? Even if he was out of range to cast immediately on a double-move, a simple readied action will allow him to cast afterward, and in any event he could have used his memorized magic missiles or his wand while doing that if Maya were out of ray range. Unless shes flat-out out of line-of-sight for all those rounds, which seems nigh impossible, there should be some spell blasting in there, and with how little hp Maya has by round 3 she should easily fall before Mithos gets beaten. Zevox does a ready action in this situation even possible? normally when a mount double move you can do you standart action on the midpoint so using that action ready an action to act when the mount finish it's move seems wrong to me somehow but i might be wrong. note that when you did do the scorching rays you didnt actually hit and that's without the double move -4 penalty. wheter or note i should be doing the ready action for you is also debatable since you didnt spesify in the tactics. About magic missile when moving - sorry M8 i really wanted 2 but you just didnt spesify it in the tactics - you said if you encounter no ressistence - do scorching rays and do magic missile wand afterward, so that's what i did. note that Maya also did some things that really werent beneficiel to her - all the execsisve buffing (and i was just about to do the disple psionincs) when it's obvios that if maya got attacked from round 1 that there is nothing TO dispell.
MindWandererB 08-11-07, 05:00 PM	Big question - why on earth did Mithos waste so many rounds without attacking?? Even if he was out of range to cast immediately on a double-move, a simple readied action will allow him to cast afterward, and in any event he could have used his memorized magic missiles or his wand while doing that if Maya were out of ray range. Unless shes flat-out out of line-of-sight for all those rounds, which seems nigh impossible, there should be some spell blasting in there, and with how little hp Maya has by round 3 she should easily fall before Mithos gets beaten. Zevox Well, you do say, "Get into melee with Maya as soon as possible so that Noble can attack her too. (Cast defensively while in melee of course.)" I'm guessing that's what templer was trying to obey. As for readying on a double-move... that's cheese. You could just say "I double move and ready to do X when my opponent breathes." You shouldn't be able to circumvent the timing rules that way.
Zevox 08-11-07, 05:21 PM	Well, you do say, "Get into melee with Maya as soon as possible so that Noble can attack her too. (Cast defensively while in melee of course.)" I'm guessing that's what templer was trying to obey. As for readying on a double-move... that's cheese. You could just say "I double move and ready to do X when my opponent breathes." You shouldn't be able to circumvent the timing rules that way. Double-moving into melee doesn't prevent Mithos from casting while hes doing it buddy. I have no problem with him trying to follow that request, just with Mithos doing nothing when he could be doing something. As for readying, whether you consider it cheesy or not, its allowed by the rules. Or does double-moving on a mount make it impossible to ready anything? Is Istima no longer allowed to ready to manifest a power on sighting his foe while his mount double-moves him around the arena? Theres nothing in the rules about that. note that when you did do the scorching rays you didnt actually hit and that's without the double move -4 penalty. Double-moving -4 doesn't apply to spells, only weapons. See the mounted combat rules. About magic missile when moving - sorry M8 i really wanted 2 but you just didnt spesify it in the tactics - you said if you encounter no ressistence - do scorching rays and do magic missile wand afterward, so that's what i did. *blinks* Pardon, but I didn't specifically asked for them to be done only in that order - I merely listed them that way because the former spells do more damage, so I would rather use them before the MMs if possible. And besides, its only common sense - why waste my time doing nothing when I can do something, and that something is among those things I asked to do in my tactics? Yes, I didn't spell out exactly every possible contingency for Maya avoiding close range in there, but thats because I figured that would be common sense. Or would you hold me to trying to get into melee for shocking grasps after the rays because I listed that as my second preferred spell? note that Maya also did some things that really werent beneficiel to her - all the execsisve buffing (and i was just about to do the disple psionincs) when it's obvios that if maya got attacked from round 1 that there is nothing TO dispell. You were going to have her do Dispel Psionics when he obviously had no buffs up? Why on earth? Thats just plain foolish, and I imagine MWB would argue it just as much as I am this if it happened. Buffing is another story, though, since she did ask to have those up for when we engaged, and all of them make it easier for her to survive Mithos' blitz. Its not necessarily a bad idea to do that, though I imagine changing the order and perhaps skipping force screen since Mithos was clearly attacking only with spells would be in order. Zevox
MindWandererB 08-11-07, 05:37 PM	Double-moving -4 doesn't apply to spells, only weapons. See the mounted combat rules.<sigh> The rules are terrible about dealing with ranged touch spells--they often say "attacks with ranged weapons" when they mean "ranged attacks." I'd have a hard time rationalizing why rays wouldn't suffer the penalty.
SauroGrenom 08-11-07, 06:08 PM	<sigh> The rules are terrible about dealing with ranged touch spells--they often say "attacks with ranged weapons" when they mean "ranged attacks." I'd have a hard time rationalizing why rays wouldn't suffer the penalty. I think it's reasonable that in most cases we can consider spells that target foes with attack rolls to be "weapons". And ray spells would then be ranged weapons.
NiQil 08-11-07, 07:01 PM	I think it's reasonable that in most cases we can consider spells that target foes with attack rolls to be "weapons". And ray spells would then be ranged weapons. Ummm...no. The rules are very explicit that these are completely seperate things. By this logic, Dissolving Weapon could be applied to any touch spell that is held as a charge, since the target for that power is a held weapon. Or would allow the use of Psionic Weapon with touch spells. No...spells are not weapons. Never have been, never will be in 3.5 (barring errata), and in my opinion, never should be.
Macbrea 08-11-07, 07:03 PM	dont know what i did to you macbrea but i didnt do anything here that i didnt see many other peeps do - argue if they felt something wasnt done right. It has become a mindset of people. If the fight isn't won, people argue the fight until it changes winners. Since, you have arrived. If a fight doesn't exactly result in you winning you will argue a fight until a pitlord submits. If you discover your posted more then 10 posts about the results of any fight requesting changes in the fight then you might be asking far more then necessary. The attitude of approaching a fight with the intent to bully a win isn't particularly fun for those that run the fights. Sorry, if this seems harsh but this is the attitude I have been seeing.
MindWandererB 08-11-07, 07:17 PM	I think it's reasonable that in most cases we can consider spells that target foes with attack rolls to be "weapons". And ray spells would then be ranged weapons.Ummm...no. The rules are very explicit that these are completely seperate things. By this logic, Dissolving Weapon could be applied to any touch spell that is held as a charge, since the target for that power is a held weapon. Or would allow the use of Psionic Weapon with touch spells. No...spells are not weapons. Never have been, never will be in 3.5 (barring errata), and in my opinion, never should be.Unfortunately, I think there are some cases where rays should be treated as weapons (like this one), and others where they shouldn't (such as spells that enhance weapon damage). It's just a mess.
NiQil 08-11-07, 07:23 PM	Unfortunately, I think there are some cases where rays should be treated as weapons (like this one), and others where they shouldn't (such as spells that enhance weapon damage). It's just a mess. While that may be your opinion, and one you are certainly entitled to, the rules are very specific about this seperation. Can't have your cake and eat it to. If we are going to follow the RAW, then the RAW says spells are not weapons.
MindWandererB 08-11-07, 07:47 PM	While that may be your opinion, and one you are certainly entitled to, the rules are very specific about this seperation. Can't have your cake and eat it to. If we are going to follow the RAW, then the RAW says spells are not weapons. But it does say that "You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack." What does that mean? It doesn't say exactly. It says nothing about what modifiers you use for your attack roll--if use your Dex modifier, why not a moving-mount modifier?
Eamane 08-11-07, 07:50 PM	Rays are ranged weapons. Spells: Any spell that requires you to make a ranged attack roll to aim the spell is subject to all the rules that govern ranged attacks, including most feats that improve ranged attacks. As a side-note (Or so I would infer), this means that they also provoke attacks of opportunity. Such as when cast out of an item/etc.
Hirumajoe 08-11-07, 08:00 PM	As a side-note (Or so I would infer), this means that they also provoke attacks of opportunity. Such as when cast out of an item/etc. That has been debated fairly extensively, and it the Elder vote decided rays that are part of spells, or from a wand, do not provoke AoOs for being a ray. (Effectively only one AoO on a ray cast spell - for it being a spell, and none if they cast defensively. Similarly wands don't provoke AoOs on ray spells).
Eamane 08-11-07, 08:02 PM	That has been debated fairly extensively, and it the Elder vote decided rays that are part of spells, or from a wand, do not provoke AoOs for being a ray. (Effectively only one AoO on a ray cast spell - for it being a spell, and none if they cast defensively. Similarly wands don't provoke AoOs on ray spells). Yes, I read the entire court thread a few days ago, I'm familiar with the decision you speak of. This statement by RotG points very strongly to a different interaction, which is why I mentioned it. EDIT: For instance, one of the 'rules' that govern ranged attacks, is that they provoke attacks of opportunities. That's in the first part of the series on ranged attacks. While normally it doesn't matter if a spell would provoke an attack of opportunity once or twice, in the case of objects it does since the casting wont provoke, but the aiming of the ray/etc, will.
lonewolf 08-11-07, 09:17 PM	@Zevox: Looking at the rolls of Karens battle and the salamanders tactics, I highly doubt that the very specific circumstances where Telin has asked to use the dispel magic are met. Changing the tactic to include a dispel magic screws Karen around big time IMHO. I hope that you consider this. EDIT: with the partly up fight, I have an additional problem: Telin asked to summon the elemental down in the pit and there is a reason for this: the ceiling is so low that up there the elemental would have to squeeze the whole time.
SauroGrenom 08-11-07, 09:23 PM	Ummm...no. The rules are very explicit that these are completely seperate things. By this logic, Dissolving Weapon could be applied to any touch spell that is held as a charge, since the target for that power is a held weapon. Or would allow the use of Psionic Weapon with touch spells. No...spells are not weapons. Never have been, never will be in 3.5 (barring errata), and in my opinion, never should be.Umm... no to your no. We already know that many effects that specifically only modify weapons also modify spells as weapons. For example the psionic shot feat, and the point blank shot feat, and the weapon focus feats all can be applied to rays, and thus rays are treated as weapons. With respect to the dissolving touch thing on a touch spell, there's a specific rule to prevent stacking touch spells. If you cast a spell while holding a charge of another spell, the charge is lost. So you cannot get dissolving touch applied to another spell, it is like holding two weapons in the same hand, you drop one when you draw the second...
SauroGrenom 08-11-07, 09:30 PM	The rules are ambiguous... Check it out: Q: Can any of these feats (Psionic Shot, Psionic Fist, Psionic Weapon) be attached to powers or spells? For example touch spells/powers/effects? Ranged touch spells/powers/effects? If so, what type of damage is it? -- Timothy A: In general, the rule of thumb for such things is that the most recent effect applied takes the place of any previous effect, unless specifically noted otherwise (such as the Hunter of the Dead's smite undead ability, which is specifically noted to work with his smite evil ability on the same swing). But, a DM may decide to allow two effects to work together if it seems reasonable for their game, even if not specifically noted. -- Bruce Cordell
SauroGrenom 08-11-07, 09:33 PM	We've had several characters use psionic shot on ray powers... I'm having trouble remembering right now, but I think there was a wand wielding psionic sneak guy who did this.
Zevox 08-11-07, 09:43 PM	Karen Douglas vs Noble Salamander. @Zevox: Looking at the rolls of Karens battle and the salamanders tactics, I highly doubt that the very specific circumstances where Telin has asked to use the dispel magic are met. Changing the tactic to include a dispel magic screws Karen around big time IMHO. I hope that you consider this. Not really - just take a look at the fight as it is now. It didn't last long, and the lost buffs wouldn't cause it to last much longer. Besides, as I mentioned at the point of improv, thats really the only worthwhile option the Salamander even had vs an invisible foe. Before you object to Karen moving down into the lower regions, note that if you delayed, you get hit by the penalty long before them, so you end up down there anyway. EDIT: with the partly up fight, I have an additional problem: Telin asked to summon the elemental down in the pit and there is a reason for this: the ceiling is so low that up there the elemental would have to squeeze the whole time. So he did. But I did account for the squeezing while the elemental was up there, and summoning it down there would actually have given it some help vs Thranduil. Looks to me like that one helped you, not the Salamander. Zevox
lonewolf 08-11-07, 09:57 PM	Sorry Zevox, but you are clearly violating Telins tactics just because they are bad? That is just not acceptable to me. A pitlord has to improvise to a certain extend, but ignoring bad tactics shouldnt be done. To follow the tactics, the salamander should have readied an fireball at Karen, not the dispel magic. And the increased reach gives Karen an AoO against that elemental, with a chance of dispelling it. And of course Karen should have stayed up on the rim, using her Bow if necessary. That was the single most important tactics that I put right on top of the tactics to be sure that it is followed. A few more rounds and the elemental is gone since the summoning spell runs out and while the Salamander is tough 1vs1, with my buffs I think i stand a chance. EDIT: Also what are these 4! AoO against Karen in round 12? Movement always provokes maximum one AoO from each opponent. EDIT2: I also asked to try to disarm enemies that use weapons.
Zevox 08-11-07, 10:12 PM	Sorry Zevox, but you are clearly violating Telins tactics just because they are bad? That is just not acceptable to me. A pitlord has to improvise to a certain extend, but ignoring bad tactics shouldnt be done. Violating his tactics? He has nothing at all for an invisible opponent. Things that tactics just don't cover is the major thing that improvisation is needed for, no? To follow the tactics, the salamander should have readied an fireball at Karen, not the dispel magic. And the increased reach gives Karen an AoO against that elemental, with a chance of dispelling it. Why Fireball? Telin just asked to lob them if he couldn't get to melee. Big difference between that and not being able to see a foe at all. And of course Karen should have stayed up on the rim. using her Bowq if necessary. That was the single most important tactics that I put right on top of the tactics to be sure that it is followed. Now you're asking me to go against your tactics - you asked to stay on the rim and wait for them to come to you, and thats it. Nothing about using your bow. Your tactics do cover this - I could have her wait for the delay penalty, but all that would buy is two rounds. While thats two rounds towards the elemental's limit, it would still have another round or two to strike at you, which is easily enough. EDIT: Also what are these 4! AoO against Karen in round 12? Movement always provokes maximum one AoO from each opponent. Combat reflexes, reach 15', dex 22. Zevox
SauroGrenom 08-11-07, 10:14 PM	Combat reflexes, reach 15', dex 22. Even if the foe has combat reflexes and reach, you only grant one AoO/ movement. It's in the SRD or FAQ. I'm sure of it.
Zevox 08-11-07, 10:18 PM	Even if the foe has combat reflexes and reach, you only grant one AoO/ movement. It's in the SRD or FAQ. I'm sure of it. Care to point me to it, then? Because I seem to recall that last time someone said they thought that, it turned out to be wrong. Zevox
lonewolf 08-11-07, 10:19 PM	Violating his tactics? He has nothing at all for an invisible opponent. Things that tactics just don't cover is the major thing that improvisation is needed for, no? Except that you didnt dispel the invisibility but used the dispel magic the moment Karen became visible again. No improvisation necessary at that point. Why Fireball? Telin just asked to lob them if he couldn't get to melee. Big difference between that and not being able to see a foe at all. see above. The moment it used dispel it could also used fireball. Now you're asking me to go against your tactics - you asked to stay on the rim and wait for them to come to you, and thats it. Nothing about using your bow. Your tactics do cover this - I could have her wait for the delay penalty, but all that would buy is two rounds. While thats two rounds towards the elemental's limit, it would still have another round or two to strike at you, which is easily enough. My tactic was to stay up there. You ignored them anyway. The intend was clearly to stay up there and you had two options: either ignore the letter of the tactics and start attacking with ranged weapons or ignore letter AND intend of the tactics by moving down there. Combat reflexes, reach 15', dex 22. Zevox Movement only provokes one AoO. Period. Combat Reflexes dont help.
lonewolf 08-11-07, 10:28 PM	Care to point me to it, then? Because I seem to recall that last time someone said they thought that, it turned out to be wrong. Zevox Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus. here you are
SauroGrenom 08-11-07, 10:30 PM	the most obvious place (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/initiativeAndAoO.html). Read the second to last sentence.
Zevox 08-11-07, 10:30 PM	Except that you didnt dispel the invisibility but used the dispel magic the moment Karen became visible again. No improvisation necessary at that point. Improvisation was absolutely necessary at that point - Karen had used a delay tactic it couldn't get around to gain an edge, and it knew this. It had the means to negate the only edges she could hope to gain, in the form of exactly one ability it has and positioning itself in a specific locale. Why on earth should it not react appropriately? see above. The moment it used dispel it could also used fireball. ...so? The fireball wouldn't help it recover the advantage it had lost. Even if Karen had little chance to save against the fireball, the dispel would clearly be the more appropriate choice to improv to. My tactic was to stay up there. You ignored them anyway. The intend was clearly to stay up there and you had two options: either ignore the letter of the tactics and start attacking with ranged weapons or ignore letter AND intend of the tactics by moving down there. Perhaps. Suppose you had used your bow - what does that get you? The elemental still charges. The Salamander comes at you while lobbing its fireballs. Your shots have no chance to harm it past DR 15/magic. Movement only provokes one AoO. Period. Combat Reflexes dont help. Not true. Heres a quote from the main AoO rules in the SRD: Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus. Link (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/initiativeAndAoO.html). Edit: Hm, interesting. You may be right. Zevox
lonewolf 08-11-07, 10:41 PM	Improvisation was absolutely necessary at that point - Karen had used a delay tactic it couldn't get around to gain an edge, and it knew this. It had the means to negate the only edges she could hope to gain, in the form of exactly one ability it has and positioning itself in a specific locale. Why on earth should it not react appropriately? Improvisation was not necessary. Your punishing the person with the better tactics by countering it without it beeing written down. Not fair. But if you believe Improvisation was necessary at that point, Improvisation on Karens side is also necessary after the dispel. She knows that she has no chance without the buffs so she should drink another potion of invisibility and refresh the buffs(at least the most important ones). This Improvisation is at least as fair as the Dispel is. ...so? The fireball wouldn't help it recover the advantage it had lost. Even if Karen had little chance to save against the fireball, the dispel would clearly be the more appropriate choice to improv to. but fireball is in the tactics and dispel is not. Again your ignoring the fireball because it is a bad choice, but it is in the tactics!!!!!! Perhaps. Suppose you had used your bow - what does that get you? The elemental still charges. The Salamander comes at you while lobbing its fireballs. Your shots have no chance to harm it past DR 15/magic. Karen doesnt know that it has DR 15/magic. After one shot they would come up to her and she could use the spiked chain again, while the elemental has to squeeze.
SauroGrenom 08-11-07, 10:48 PM	Zevox, Read the next sentence after the one you bolded. It's even in your quote. So that clears up one of the concerns. You clearly cannot provoke more than one AoO from the same creature due to movement. You could draw a scroll (provoke an AoO), move (provoke another AoO) and cast from the scroll (provoke a 3rd AoO). But a movement won't provoke more than one AoO from the same guy. As for the other stuff, I'm thinking that this Lonewolf has a point here. The Salamander doesn't have spell craft. He cannot deduce Invisibility. He could think she's hiding. He could think she slipped away. He could think a lot of things, but deducing Invisibility and waiting with a readied action is a tactic that's totally based on reasonable metagame info you have as pitlord. A tactic more in line with the creature's abilities is to go searching and/or using a pattern of fireballs to roast her instead of a readied action with dispel. Regardless, you violated the player's tactic to their detriment. If she gets a delay penalty, so what in this case? She's outlined by a faerie fire spell, BFD for Karen. The monster can come after her as per her and Telin's tactics. She can fight them dodging around the statues as she desired, instead of standing around in the lava. Telin's tactics are happy to go after Karen, and Karen is happy for them to come after her. I see no reason to disregard both Lonewolf's and Telin's tactics and switch places with the Salamander waiting and Karen approaching. The delay penalty is not a trigger to disregard tactics, it's a trigger to reveal the location of a hiding character. In this case, I don't think that it will really matter. Karen is outclassed by the melee power of the elemental and the Salamander, but Lonewolf's and Telin's tactics should be followed anyway.
Zevox 08-11-07, 11:14 PM	Improvisation was not necessary. Your punishing the person with the better tactics by countering it without it beeing written down. Not fair. No, I'm using improvisation in one of the most basic instances where it is necessary. Karen did something which breaks Telin's blitz tactics and which the Salamander cannot interrupt in any way. Ergo, improvisation is needed. but fireball is in the tactics and dispel is not. Again your ignoring the fireball because it is a bad choice, but it is in the tactics!!!!!! No, I'm not. Even if this were a reflex-less hippo like Zodiac who were fighting this thing, I'd use the dispel over the fireball in the case of him going invisible. Using a fireball wouldn't be improving to try and counter the unexpected invisibility, it would be treating the invisibility as if it never happened. The fireball is in Telin's tactics, yes, but in an utterly different context which has no relation to the one you're asking it to be used in. Theres absolutely no reason it should use it in this situation. But if you believe Improvisation was necessary at that point, Improvisation on Karens side is also necessary after the dispel. She knows that she has no chance without the buffs so she should drink another potion of invisibility and refresh the buffs(at least the most important ones). This Improvisation is at least as fair as the Dispel is. That one is more reasonable - I hadn't thought Karen would be carrying more than one invis potion, especially at her level, where almost everyone can counter it, so the thought never occurred to me that might be an option. I'll see about editing things for such an improv, plus letting you await the delay penalty per tactics. Karen doesnt know that it has DR 15/magic. After one shot they would come up to her and she could use the spiked chain again, while the elemental has to squeeze. Fair enough. I'll consider that when I edit. As for the other stuff, I'm thinking that this Lonewolf has a point here. The Salamander doesn't have spell craft. He cannot deduce Invisibility. He could think she's hiding. He could think she slipped away. He could think a lot of things, but deducing Invisibility and waiting with a readied action is a tactic that's totally based on reasonable metagame info you have as pitlord. A tactic more in line with the creature's abilities is to go searching and/or using a pattern of fireballs to roast her instead of a readied action with dispel. Sauro, remember the Salamander had advanced knowledge of its foe. It doesn't need spellcraft to know a spell exists, especially one as basic as invisibility, and it doesn't need spellcraft to know Karen has potions of invisibility. Without being a Shadowdancer or Assassin, Karen couldn't be simply hiding after the search it and the elemental gave the box they saw Thranduil start in, so it knew that was the only way she could be undetected at that point. As for the delay issue, as I said above, I'll see about editing that in, for what little difference it will make. Zevox
lonewolf 08-11-07, 11:30 PM	While I still disagree on the dispel issue, I can live with it if the other issues are beeing adressed. FYI: The most important Buffs for Karen are Inertial armor, Expansion and Vigor. With those up she would go another round.
Rauul 08-12-07, 12:15 AM	One thing....in my tactics I specified that I wanted to engage him in melee as fast as possible when no Exp Retreat was in play. I thought it would be, but it wasn't. Since it wasn't there, I should have ran towards my opponent rather than move and fire as you had me do. The move and fire tactics was only for if Exp Retreat was in effect. Since he hadn't move, I had no way of knowing that it was or wasn't, but I did specify that I wanted to get him in to melee as quickly as possible. I shouldn't have wasted those opening rounds firing at him when I could have easily gotten to him faster. i thought about that also but your character has no spellcraft... to you shield spell could of been exp retreat or disintegrate.. you didn't know till he moved he wasn't extremely fast.. and that was when you charged and hugged the gnome.. I can have him not move.. you not shoot last arrow and it still works out the same.. saves you 1 arrow thou..
NiQil 08-12-07, 12:24 AM	i thought about that also but your character has no spellcraft... to you shield spell could of been exp retreat or disintegrate.. you didn't know till he moved he wasn't extremely fast.. and that was when you charged and hugged the gnome.. I can have him not move.. you not shoot last arrow and it still works out the same.. saves you 1 arrow thou.. Nah don't worry about it....I knew going in that it was a long shot...had even one of those arrows hit, I would have pulled it out, but changing the movement isn't going to change anything, now that I reflect on it. Let it stand. I reserve the right to be more picky about Tiris' fight, however, since I care more about his record than this one LOL
lonewolf 08-12-07, 01:06 PM	Gakhnalak vs Lady Liara is up
templer10 08-12-07, 01:33 PM	Gakhnalak vs Lady Liara is up TY for the run - iam just wondering what is that will save on round 9? and P.s i dont have stones of vigor - i have dorja of vigor - please edit that.
templer10 08-12-07, 01:43 PM	Anyone seen Korone - i need to get Atemu (Korone) vs. Kathren Durrol (Zevox) : templer10 [Sewer] done and while i dont like handing surrenders...
MindWandererB 08-12-07, 03:18 PM	Gakhnalak vs Lady Liara is up You are required to keep the fight going, since Blurgta does have the ability to restore Gakhnalak to consciousness. Also, Liara is in a Silence effect while using a wand. That doesn't work. She'll fail on the first attempt in round 11 and need to change tactics. Since Ray of Enfeeblement won't work, that has the potential of changing quite a bit. I don't thin Liara's round 9 movement is possible--she has to land, squeeze, and go through swamp. I asked to have Gakhnalak stay in undergrowth when possible, and it is--he standing right next to some during the melee. That will add a concealment check to him. I can't believe I forgot to trip Liara, but apparently I did. Idiocy. That's all I can spot right now. Please take a look. @templer: The Will save is vs. Silence.
templer10 08-12-07, 03:26 PM	You are required to keep the fight going, since Blurgta does have the ability to restore Gakhnalak to consciousness. Also, Liara is in a Silence effect while using a wand. That doesn't work. She'll fail on the first attempt in round 11 and need to change tactics. Since Ray of Enfeeblement won't work, that has the potential of changing quite a bit. I don't thin Liara's round 9 movement is possible--she has to land, squeeze, and go through swamp. I asked to have Gakhnalak stay in undergrowth when possible, and it is--he standing right next to some during the melee. That will add a concealment check to him. I can't believe I forgot to trip Liara, but apparently I did. Idiocy. That's all I can spot right now. Please take a look. @templer: The Will save is vs. Silence. If it's silence then the cohort cant heal you know. by that i mean since grak gets into negetives (if he does need to check rolls) in teh area of silence cohort cant heal him and needs to kill liara first (kind of unlikely to happen).
MindWandererB 08-12-07, 03:39 PM	If it's silence then the cohort cant heal you know. by that i mean since grak gets into negetives (if he does need to check rolls) in teh area of silence cohort cant heal him and needs to kill liara first (kind of unlikely to happen). The rule is that the fight isn't over if you have an ally capable of healing you. Since she's temporarily unable, but not permanently, the fight doesn't end until she's down or Gakhnalak is dead. She could, in theory, drag him away from the spell radius, or if he stabilizes, wait for the spell to end. But since the possibility is there, the fight isn't over. With the other corrections, it might end up that even if Gakh still goes down, Liara could be in much worse shape.
lonewolf 08-12-07, 04:20 PM	crap I remembered that Liara cannot use True Strike in Silence, I remembered that Blurgta cannot use CLW in Silence, but I forgot that Liara cannot use Ray of enfeeblement. I will change the fight, but honestly, I think that this only speeds up Liaras victory. She will draw her Greatsword, and both of them will attack Grak. *starting editing*
lonewolf 08-12-07, 06:01 PM	The edit of Gak vs Liara is up. @MWB: Round9 movement is correct, I double checked. Also you cannot take a 5ft step into undergrowth and a normal move would have triggered AoO.
templer10 08-12-07, 06:13 PM	The edit of Gak vs Liara is up. @MWB: Round9 movement is correct, I double checked. Also you cannot take a 5ft step into undergrowth and a normal move would have triggered AoO. seems all right to me - and the little 80 pound Girl took out the big mean orc.... p.s. - the dice REALLY didnt like you MWB. p.s.s if you think liara is nasty iam seriusly thinking about having her take a centaur cohort with winged boots and since both will have then reach they can both do lance attacks....
MindWandererB 08-12-07, 08:30 PM	seems all right to me - and the little 80 pound Girl took out the big mean orc.... p.s. - the dice REALLY didnt like you MWB. p.s.s if you think liara is nasty iam seriusly thinking about having her take a centaur cohort with winged boots and since both will have then reach they can both do lance attacks.... Yeah, not much one can do about rolls like that. There's still one or two little mistakes where the RoE penalty wasn't undone, but they're not fight-affecting. <sigh> So much for my longest-running undefeated character.
Zevox 08-13-07, 12:46 AM	So, templer10, you going to edit Mithos vs Maya? Zevox
templer10 08-13-07, 01:40 AM	So, templer10, you going to edit Mithos vs Maya? Zevox Editing in this situation is a bit more improv then i like to do But i suppose using the wand when you CANT atackwith scorching ray is pretty basic so ill allow that - but no ready after double move unless you get an elder vote to confirm that since as far as i read it it's against the mounted combat rules. also since iam diverging from your tactics (and i am) iam feeling free to edit MWB's to make more sense (in teh buff order) and i will be using leftover pps to vigor up if maya survive the first MM since it's essentially the only defense she has. p.s. - ill do this in the evening (for me).
Zevox 08-13-07, 01:18 PM	Editing in this situation is a bit more improv then i like to do But i suppose using the wand when you CANT atackwith scorching ray is pretty basic so ill allow that - but no ready after double move unless you get an elder vote to confirm that since as far as i read it it's against the mounted combat rules. also since iam diverging from your tactics (and i am) iam feeling free to edit MWB's to make more sense (in teh buff order) and i will be using leftover pps to vigor up if maya survive the first MM since it's essentially the only defense she has. p.s. - ill do this in the evening (for me). Okay, though I have to ask - using leftover pp to vigor? Why not her dorje, per her tactics? Zevox
templer10 08-13-07, 01:25 PM	Okay, though I have to ask - using leftover pp to vigor? Why not her dorje, per her tactics? Zevox Maya's keeping the extra PPS for dispell and said to use extra's leftover to vigor if needed - since it's evident from basicly round 1 she doesnt need dispell there's no reason NOT to do vigor as soon as is becomes evident she needs more then 10 temp HP (i.e. as soon as the MM barrage starts).
templer10 08-13-07, 01:39 PM	Can you use wand of MM when the familiar is holding the charge on a touch spell?
Zevox 08-13-07, 01:40 PM	Maya's keeping the extra PPS for dispell and said to use extra's leftover to vigor if needed - since it's evident from basicly round 1 she doesnt need dispell there's no reason NOT to do vigor as soon as is becomes evident she needs more then 10 temp HP (i.e. as soon as the MM barrage starts). All right, hadn't noticed the leftoevers note when I went over her tactics earlier. Although technically it does say to do that only if her dorje is sundered, I can understand the change with the dispel being pointless. Zevox
Zevox 08-13-07, 01:41 PM	Can you use wand of MM when the familiar is holding the charge on a touch spell? Sure. You lose a touch spell if you cast a spell, not if you activate an item. (Though Telin has argued otherwise in the past when the both of us have been involved in a fight where it mattered.) Zevox
templer10 08-13-07, 01:50 PM	Atemu SURRENDERS here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13397770&postcount=1209) to katheren.
TheMagister 08-13-07, 02:05 PM	Ummm...no. The rules are very explicit that these are completely seperate things. By this logic, Dissolving Weapon could be applied to any touch spell that is held as a charge, since the target for that power is a held weapon. Or would allow the use of Psionic Weapon with touch spells. No...spells are not weapons. Never have been, never will be in 3.5 (barring errata), and in my opinion, never should be. {Rubicanti clears his throat} Coughflurrywithtouchspellscough TM
TheMagister 08-13-07, 02:17 PM	Can you use wand of MM when the familiar is holding the charge on a touch spell? Sure. You lose a touch spell if you cast a spell, not if you activate an item. (Though Telin has argued otherwise in the past when the both of us have been involved in a fight where it mattered.) Zevox So Rubi can hold as many touch spells as he wants, as long as he gets them from items? :confused:
templer10 08-13-07, 02:30 PM	the edit of maya vs Mithos is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13378766&postcount=1207)- no change expet mitho's horse actually managed to die complelty this time (not that it matters) - that AC 13 really hurt mithos when vilas rolled that nat 20 then almost max dmg on the arrows (3d8+6+3=29=dead).
templer10 08-13-07, 02:31 PM	So Rubi can hold as many touch spells as he wants, as long as he gets them from items? :confused: I was asking if you can use a wand when the FAMILIAR is holding the charge - bit of a diffrence then holding a couple of diffrent touch spells.
Zevox 08-13-07, 02:50 PM	Karen vs Noble Salamander has been edited. No change - as I figured, the Salamander was just too powerful for Karen, even with her important buffs restored. Almost no chance to miss vs about a 30% chance to miss, equal damage potential post-buffs, and higher hp on the Salamander, each getting one attack per round - yeah, its clear who had the edge from the beginning. Zevox
Zevox 08-13-07, 03:03 PM	...well, I just got an unpleasant surprise - apparently I have to go in to work tonight, since no one else in my department can do the last shift. Which cuts into my time to run fights, as I was planning on running one more this evening and starting the other tonight. Fortunately I'm getting tomorrow night off in exchange, which I didn't have before, but this will probably mean one of my fights will be late tomorrow. Just a forewarning for my players. Zevox
lonewolf 08-13-07, 03:12 PM	Karen vs Noble Salamander has been edited. No change - as I figured, the Salamander was just too powerful for Karen, even with her important buffs restored. Almost no chance to miss vs about a 30% chance to miss, equal damage potential post-buffs, and higher hp on the Salamander, each getting one attack per round - yeah, its clear who had the edge from the beginning. Zevox Why did you have Karen move towards the Salamander before Spring Attacking? She also has 20ft reach with her spiked chain, so she can easily get out of move+attack range of the Salamander after after a Spring Attack. That means that the Salamander can only attack when he can charge. Karen only needs a few more hits to bring him down, so she still has a chance. PS: And If you now have the Salamander start readying attacks whenever Karen comes close, I can only wonder what you mean if you say in your pitlord post that you take tactics literally...
Zevox 08-13-07, 03:23 PM	Why did you have Karen move towards the Salamander before Spring Attacking? Because she needs to move at least 5' before making your attack to spring attack (though I had thought it was 10' when I was running it). She also has 20ft reach with her spiked chain, so she can easily get out of move+attack range of the Salamander after after a Spring Attack. That means that the Salamander can only attack when he can charge. Karen only needs a few more hits to bring him down, so she still has a chance. PS: And If you now have the Salamander start readying attacks whenever Karen comes close, I can only wonder what you mean if you say in your pitlord post that you take tactics literally... As you note, it can easily start readying attacks even if she were to start getting beyond its range (and nothing in Telin's tactics prevents that - this would be another instance where his incredibly scanty tactics don't cover it, since he obviously figured getting into melee would be easy vs a melee-oriented foe). I might give a round before it figures that out, but nothing more certainly. And I mean exactly what it says when I say I generally interpret tactics literally - if you ask to do something in a particular situation, unless something has changed to make it an incredibly inane thing to do where it once wasn't, I do it. That doesn't mean I don't improvise when its necessary. Zevox
lonewolf 08-13-07, 03:30 PM	I rest my case. The Salamander wins because of good improvisation. Congratulations Zevox
templer10 08-13-07, 03:31 PM	...well, I just got an unpleasant surprise - apparently I have to go in to work tonight, since no one else in my department can do the last shift. Which cuts into my time to run fights, as I was planning on running one more this evening and starting the other tonight. Fortunately I'm getting tomorrow night off in exchange, which I didn't have before, but this will probably mean one of my fights will be late tomorrow. Just a forewarning for my players. Zevox i would really appriciate it if you can have the lorian& longshot VS samuel done first since i need to edit 2 chars afterwrds and no time at wendeday (almost).
Zevox 08-13-07, 03:37 PM	I rest my case. The Salamander wins because of good improvisation. Congratulations Zevox Look, I'm sorry you feel slighted about this, but I'm not going to run the Salamander as a mentally retarded creature incapable of doing anything but chase a foe it can't catch just because Telin's tactics were hastily done (this is the kind of thing I just argued with templer10 about in Mithos' fight, you'll note). It already fired three fireballs at you when it was clear they wouldn't do anything because Telin's tactics asked to do so. You got to outlast its elemental ally entirely because of the improv (that you personally suggested) to use your second invisibility potion, which cut the encounter's danger practically in half. I'd say you got plenty of help with the fight already - it was just a damn dangerous fight, and you didn't get the kind of luck you needed to win it. Zevox
MindWandererB 08-13-07, 03:44 PM	Because she needs to move at least 5' before making your attack to spring attack (though I had thought it was 10' when I was running it).I haven't looked at the fight to see if it matters, but bear in mind that while you do have to move 5', you don't have to move 5' toward your opponent--you can move laterally or even away if you have reach and are close enough. You can even move away, attack, and move closer (a good trick for reach-weapon users).
TelinArtho 08-13-07, 04:02 PM	Ralein Dreamstriker (Callix) vs War Messiah (NiQil) is up. I'm going to finish off the first week of Loddick/Aerryl's mission, then possibly get to the other fight I have left.
templer10 08-13-07, 04:22 PM	I rest my case. The Salamander wins because of good improvisation. Congratulations Zevox Hmm i wonder why this is so.... familiar.... to me.
Callix 08-13-07, 04:47 PM	Telin: You need to list the tattoo in Ralein's used items. I'm not complaining, but it does need to be there.
TelinArtho 08-13-07, 05:03 PM	That reminds me Callix - tattoos of skate are 100gp each - not 50gp. Tattoos of personal range powers are double price (per the SRD in Psionic Items, Creating Psionic Tattoos). Skate is troublesome because of the wording and we have clarified it here to be personal range for the purposes of cost. You can see this in the Court thread. I'll edit it in presently. EDIT: Oh - and done (a while ago - but done nonetheless)
MindWandererB 08-13-07, 06:13 PM	Did we ever get a consensus whether the Denth attacks should be treated as having a higher PR than 1000? I'm thinking maybe 1200 would be a good number... about halfway between the average PR of your own level and the one above yours.
TelinArtho 08-13-07, 09:09 PM	I'm fine with whatever. Though this week should certainly be PR1000 - since I'm sure Sauro wouldn't be too happy with the number changing after his guild lost an interception. 1200 would be amenable to me. Or higher... You know I want some decent destruction from this...
MindWandererB 08-13-07, 11:00 PM	I'm fine with whatever. Though this week should certainly be PR1000 - since I'm sure Sauro wouldn't be too happy with the number changing after his guild lost an interception. 1200 would be amenable to me. Or higher... You know I want some decent destruction from this... I'll wait to hear from Sauro. On one hand, the PR does dictate the damage dealt. On the other hand, winners gain more and losers lose less when the PR is higher. So higher PR is better for PCs, but worse for the guilds.
SauroGrenom 08-13-07, 11:56 PM	I'll wait to hear from Sauro. On one hand, the PR does dictate the damage dealt. On the other hand, winners gain more and losers lose less when the PR is higher. So higher PR is better for PCs, but worse for the guilds. PSI can take a hit or two... Last week we maxed out all 3 treasuries... I don't mind the higher PR, just so long as it's not enough to burn the structure to the ground. With the new construction processing, it should be possible to repair these things relatively quickly. BTW, if a district is surrounded by district gates, then can it still be attacked by a PMG? I'd think not, but the rules don't say anything on the issue.
SauroGrenom 08-14-07, 12:08 AM	Another option is to make the assaults get worse as time goes on. You can have the first ones with a lower PR, and the PR increases each week.
MindWandererB 08-14-07, 12:37 AM	Another option is to make the assaults get worse as time goes on. You can have the first ones with a lower PR, and the PR increases each week. Only if Telin scaled the difficulty accordingly, which he didn't. Otherwise it makes sense for the guilds, but isn't fair to the players. I'll figure them at 1200.
Zevox 08-14-07, 12:47 AM	Did we ever get a consensus whether the Denth attacks should be treated as having a higher PR than 1000? I'm thinking maybe 1200 would be a good number... about halfway between the average PR of your own level and the one above yours. Last I checked, the suggestion never even got replied to when I asked about it. But yeah, 1200 would be fine - I was initially 1250 myself, exactly halfway between starting and great reknown, but this works too. Zevox
MindWandererB 08-14-07, 01:33 AM	the edit of maya vs Mithos is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13378766&postcount=1207)- no change expet mitho's horse actually managed to die complelty this time (not that it matters) - that AC 13 really hurt mithos when vilas rolled that nat 20 then almost max dmg on the arrows (3d8+6+3=29=dead). Rewards look wrong: Maya gets -25%, but Mithos gets -5% from his horse. Maya: 2100 * (1-(.25-.05)) = 1680 XP; 2,600 * (1-(.25-.05)) = 2080 GP Mithos: 700 * (1+(.25-.05)) = 840 XP; 866 * (1+(.25-.05)) = 1039.2 GP
Callix 08-14-07, 01:51 AM	Telin: I have to protest. Skate is a touch range power. You, another willing creature, or an unattended object can slide along solid ground as if on smooth ice. If you manifest skate on yourself or another creature, the subject of the power retains equilibrium by mental desire alone, allowing her to gracefully skate along the ground, turn, or stop suddenly as desired. The skater’s land speed increases by 15 feet. Emphasis mine.
NiQil 08-14-07, 01:53 AM	Telin: I have to protest. Skate is a touch range power. Emphasis mine. From the Court Decisions: Q: How much does the Skate power cost when purchased as a Psionic Tattoo? A: Since there is no weight limit to the power when used on yourself, it costs double normal price like other personal tattoos. This is the current ruling.
Zevox 08-14-07, 01:56 AM	Telin: I have to protest. Skate is a touch range power. You, another willing creature, or an unattended object can slide along solid ground as if on smooth ice. If you manifest skate on yourself or another creature, the subject of the power retains equilibrium by mental desire alone, allowing her to gracefully skate along the ground, turn, or stop suddenly as desired. The skater’s land speed increases by 15 feet. Emphasis mine. Trust me, not everyone here agrees with that ruling. It was made before I even joined, but I know I think its absolutely wrong. Still, nothing for it at this point, and it is a fairly minor thing anyway. Zevox
Callix 08-14-07, 02:05 AM	OK. Will change sheet. Just as well I had 150gp left in my expendables cap.
Rauul 08-14-07, 11:02 AM	Rennae Longhollow vs. Kykal Aiba In the Arena.. is done.. is here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13368908&postcount=1203).. Dice decided this fight..
Rauul 08-14-07, 11:07 AM	Working on Tiris Rush vs. Rolf now.... 2 archers who want to avoid melee... and you say Snipers are a pain to run... sheesh..
Zevox 08-14-07, 01:43 PM	Longshot & Lorian vs Sammuel is up. Ever seen a Ghost successfully grappled before? Zevox
Erithmu 08-14-07, 01:56 PM	Longshot & Lorian vs Sammuel is up. Ever seen a Ghost successfully grappled before? ZevoxYup ... done it in TT ... although we were using the Bibgy's hand line.
lonewolf 08-14-07, 02:07 PM	No complaints here. Looks like a bad week for my characters...
Eamane 08-14-07, 02:47 PM	Rennae Longhollow vs. Kykal Aiba In the Arena.. is done.. is here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13368908&postcount=1203).. Dice decided this fight.. They say not to bite the hand that feeds you, but... There are some discrepancies. 1. Once Kykal has switched to ranged tactics, there are no conditions under which she goes back to melee (aside from AoOs of course). (To put it simply, there is no reason why I should stay in the range of his powers when my bow can hit him from anywhere in the arena that I have LOS.) 2. In the round where Kykal stows her chain; she doesn't have enough actions to draw a bow and fire; according to my tactics, she should stow the chain, then move away drawing the bow as she goes. 3. In the case of a readied action vs a charge; Kykal would be hit by the swarm before she connected with her attack. Readied actions trump normal actions.
templer10 08-14-07, 03:48 PM	Longshot & Lorian vs Sammuel is up. Ever seen a Ghost successfully grappled before? Zevox thanks for the run - and now i have my first ECL 10 - Characters beware...
TelinArtho 08-14-07, 03:53 PM	The Chameleon (lonewolf) vs Retikos, the Padparadasha Sage (SauroGrenom) is up.
lonewolf 08-14-07, 03:55 PM	The Chameleon (lonewolf) vs Retikos, the Padparadasha Sage (SauroGrenom) is up. Im confused. Why did The chameleon leave the tower?
TelinArtho 08-14-07, 04:00 PM	Because she doesn't want to be full attacked by three hippogriffs and other than to avoid the delay penalty, she doesn't want to engage them. Because her tactics call for engaging Retikos and sitting while being full attacked doesn't really help her.
lonewolf 08-14-07, 04:07 PM	But how does this situation improve by moving down the tower and into Cus arms??? She could at least stayed on the roof somewhere, out of Cus reach(which was one of the main reasons why I climbed up there in the first place)
Rauul 08-14-07, 04:21 PM	Tiris Rush vs. Rolf In the Forest is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13369000&postcount=1204) archers....
TelinArtho 08-14-07, 04:24 PM	Well, I don't know what to tell you lonewolf - if your tactics included a specific statement: "I don't care about Retikos's summons at all - let them attack me all they want" - maybe I'd have kept you up there. Moving around up there is useless - as it just allows them to attack you as much as they want.
Rauul 08-14-07, 04:26 PM	They say not to bite the hand that feeds you, but... There are some discrepancies. 1. Once Kykal has switched to ranged tactics, there are no conditions under which she goes back to melee (aside from AoOs of course). (To put it simply, there is no reason why I should stay in the range of his powers when my bow can hit him from anywhere in the arena that I have LOS.) Other than your tactics stated you wanted to melee, and you had no psicraft/spellcraft to know what she was doing.. 2. In the round where Kykal stows her chain; she doesn't have enough actions to draw a bow and fire; according to my tactics, she should stow the chain, then move away drawing the bow as she goes. Thought i edited that out.. bah will fix it (never counted that arrow) 3. In the case of a readied action vs a charge; Kykal would be hit by the swarm before she connected with her attack. Readied actions trump normal actions. Readied action failed to hit your touch ac, next action would of been to shoot her x-bow at you but she didn't load it the round before because her tactics called for her to get close to you to swarm you..
Rauul 08-14-07, 04:34 PM	They say not to bite the hand that feeds you, but... There are some discrepancies. 1. Once Kykal has switched to ranged tactics, there are no conditions under which she goes back to melee (aside from AoOs of course). (To put it simply, there is no reason why I should stay in the range of his powers when my bow can hit him from anywhere in the arena that I have LOS.) 2. In the round where Kykal stows her chain; she doesn't have enough actions to draw a bow and fire; according to my tactics, she should stow the chain, then move away drawing the bow as she goes. 3. In the case of a readied action vs a charge; Kykal would be hit by the swarm before she connected with her attack. Readied actions trump normal actions. Edited.. no change..
lonewolf 08-14-07, 04:52 PM	Well, I don't know what to tell you lonewolf - if your tactics included a specific statement: "I don't care about Retikos's summons at all - let them attack me all they want" - maybe I'd have kept you up there. Moving around up there is useless - as it just allows them to attack you as much as they want. I just dont see how moving down the tower helps me in that situation. Down on the street, the summons can attack me just as good. But I think I argued enough this week, so Im gonna let it go. @templer: I finally found time to do the edit on Elricks fight, but its going to be a long fight and Im nearly falling asleep every second. Plus I´ve got loads of stuff to do tomorrow. => if you want the edit, the fight will have to be held over. sorry. I leave the decision up to you.
Callix 08-14-07, 04:57 PM	Rauul: re Kykal vs Rennae Manifesting from a powerstone is always a standard action. Thus, my Astral Construct cannot be disrupted. The power does not require concentration. Secondly, exactly what does rennae do in round 4? She has a whole bunch of actions, but I'm not sure how much of that was my tactics. Still, my missing with the 3pp crystal shard, and her hitting with that 18-20 bow shot has messed me up pretty good.
templer10 08-14-07, 04:57 PM	I just dont see how moving down the tower helps me in that situation. Down on the street, the summons can attack me just as good. But I think I argued enough this week, so Im gonna let it go. @templer: I finally found time to do the edit on Elricks fight, but its going to be a long fight and Im nearly falling asleep every second. Plus I´ve got loads of stuff to do tomorrow. => if you want the edit, the fight will have to be held over. sorry. I leave the decision up to you. yes i want the edit ty- just let pitlords know please. p.s- DC 28 energy missiles this wendsday on Longshot - that's just sick...
Zevox 08-14-07, 05:03 PM	Darfu Spell-Axe vs. Eámanë Oronrá is up. Basic Psion vs Orc fight - yawn. Zevox
Rauul 08-14-07, 05:16 PM	Rauul: re Kykal vs Rennae Manifesting from a powerstone is always a standard action. Thus, my Astral Construct cannot be disrupted. The power does not require concentration. Secondly, exactly what does rennae do in round 4? She has a whole bunch of actions, but I'm not sure how much of that was my tactics. Still, my missing with the 3pp crystal shard, and her hitting with that 18-20 bow shot has messed me up pretty good. Using a stone’s stored power after addressing the stone requires holding the stone and willing the power’s manifestation, as if manifesting a power normally (a standard action). Activating a power stone is subject to disruption just as manifesting a power normally would be. As if manifesting it yourself (1 rd action) making it able to be disrupted.. Rd 4 your readied action went off.. you missed, used your move to reload x-bow, and fire it (because you wanted to stay within 30ft to use Crystal swarm).. then you got tripped (with oppsition rolls) and squished..
MindWandererB 08-14-07, 05:22 PM	Rauul: re Kykal vs Rennae Manifesting from a powerstone is always a standard action. Thus, my Astral Construct cannot be disrupted. The power does not require concentration.Nope. The following quote applies to psionics as well as magic: Activating any magic item is a standard action, unless the item duplicates a spell effect that has a longer casting time or unless the item description specifies a different casting time. The sections on spell completion and spell trigger items should include the caveat that activating the item takes as long as casting the stored spell would take. Thus, it takes 1 hour to activate a scroll with an identify spell on it. A scroll or a wand with any of the summon monster spells in it takes a full round to activate, just as casting a summon monster spell does.
Callix 08-14-07, 05:32 PM	My bad on the construct. As to the crossbow, I said to use it once I was out of pp. Still, I got squished fair and square. Sorry for all the ruckus.
Eamane 08-14-07, 05:54 PM	Darfu Spell-Axe vs. Eámanë Oronrá is up. Basic Psion vs Orc fight - yawn. Zevox Going for straight damage energy missiles had better percentages of being able to kill him (50% vs 25% for ego whip), but it wouldn't be 1. as fast or 2. as thematically satisfying. I'm willing to chance a loss in the name of thematics. Seriously, Ego Whip is like, designed to nerf Orc Barbarians. Couldn't resist ^_^ Re: Kykal vs Rennae Alright, fight looks okay now. Thanks for responding Rauul. EDIT: Zevox, would you please include the decimal earnings for Eamane's crafting? (76.59 vs 76) D&D has a built in decimal monetary system (silver, copper), so its not like that wealth is lost or needs to be rounded up/down.
Rauul 08-14-07, 06:12 PM	My bad on the construct. As to the crossbow, I said to use it once I was out of pp. Still, I got squished fair and square. Sorry for all the ruckus. your Tactics were a little confusing... please take a Look at NiQil's or Telin's outline how you want things done a little clearer Trust me use the Full PM if you have to.. But yea the Dice rolls killed you in the long run... And it's not a Ruckus.. I am here to make 1 person happy and 1 person sad.. depending on the dice and tactics decides who gets happy and sad..
Rauul 08-14-07, 06:55 PM	templer10, Can you update the Items used by Gortek.. you forgot to list his 2 tattoos he used... (unless he gets 2 free ones for being a great customer)
TelinArtho 08-15-07, 10:07 AM	Figures that I'd be having trouble connecting to the roller when I have stuff I need to finish up... Roller and Mapper are both down for me.