Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hirumajoe 12-05-07, 04:45 PM	Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. News & Whatnot This space for rent. (PM me and I'll put it here). Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindwandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
MindWandererB 12-05-07, 05:21 PM	Pairings are done, except that I still need someone to run the slaughter that is Darian Thorne (lonewolf) vs. Balthazar Picsou (hogarth) : XXXXX [Sewer] Since many of the people who put up playtest characters don't seem to be active this week, it doesn't look like there will be a new playtest fight. Credits Callix F3 Erithmu F1 Q2 C3 Hirumajoe F1 A-1 lonewolf F2 Macbrea F2 Taureus_Drakken F1 templer10 F4 whitebaron F3 A-2 MindWandererB A2 A-1 Salrantol F1 TelinArtho C3 Vathelokai Q2 Key: F=Fight, Q=Quest, C=Campaign, G=Guildmaster, A=Admin or Active Characters
hogarth 12-05-07, 05:27 PM	Pairings are done, except that I still need someone to run the slaughter that is Darian Thorne (lonewolf) vs. Balthazar Picsou (hogarth) : XXXXX [Sewer] Why not just convert it to Darian & Balthazar vs. Varjo? I'm sure everyone would love that. :angel:
Salrantol 12-05-07, 05:29 PM	Pairings are done, except that I still need someone to run the slaughter that is Darian Thorne (lonewolf) vs. Balthazar Picsou (hogarth) : XXXXX [Sewer] Since many of the people who put up playtest characters don't seem to be active this week, it doesn't look like there will be a new playtest fight.I'll take that fight, even if hogarth doesn't surrender.
MindWandererB 12-05-07, 05:29 PM	Why not just convert it to Darian & Balthazar vs. Varjo? I'm sure everyone would love that. :angel: Eh, we just had a Darian/Varjo interleague. I was trying to avoid that.
Hirumajoe 12-05-07, 05:30 PM	Here's a rules question: How does the bright light condition interact with Smoke? Specifically from an eversmoking bottle?
whitebaron 12-05-07, 05:31 PM	monster info for therador: 3 huge monsters. therador tries to remember what was so special about them, but fails to see it... i just realized i looked up the wrong monster. switched to 4 medium bipeds.
CrazyArtificer 12-05-07, 05:34 PM	@whitebaron tactics for Uranedal sent.
MindWandererB 12-05-07, 05:38 PM	Here's a rules question: How does the bright light condition interact with Smoke? Specifically from an eversmoking bottle? There's no interaction--the smoke wins. Physical obscurement always beats lighting, I believe.
lonewolf 12-05-07, 05:40 PM	Eh, we just had a Darian/Varjo interleague. I was trying to avoid that. :bow:
Hirumajoe 12-05-07, 05:41 PM	There's no interaction--the smoke wins. Physical obscurement always beats lighting, I believe. So just to be clear then, there are shadows within the smoke cloud? (As opposed to just 20% concealment)? I realize I wasn't very explicit in the question I wanted answered. And I'd like to avoid questions after the fact if necessary.
MindWandererB 12-05-07, 05:55 PM	So just to be clear then, there are shadows within the smoke cloud? (As opposed to just 20% concealment)? I realize I wasn't very explicit in the question I wanted answered. And I'd like to avoid questions after the fact if necessary. Hum. As written, no, the smoke doesn't cast a shadow. (Only creatures do.) But I'll agree that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Macbrea 12-05-07, 06:10 PM	Tactics sent for Lord Matsuni and Yorick. Templer10 and Hogarth don't spend too much time trying to figure out tactics against Yorick. I sent a surrender on that one.
Callix 12-05-07, 07:27 PM	Yorick vs TEDS is up. As Macbrea said, he surrenders. Easiest 2 credits of my life :). @Whitebaron: Tactics for Ralein sent. Flutterthought isn't getting another autowin from me... It's not the invisibility that really annoys me. It's the invisibility AND the Plains map AND the DR 10/Cold Iron, which just seems to be designed to screw over soulknives.
Macbrea 12-05-07, 07:39 PM	Technically, they are still considered to bring their prebuffed horses and the reward should be adjusted by that.
hogarth 12-05-07, 07:56 PM	I'll take that fight, even if hogarth doesn't surrender. It'll be short. But why should Picsou surrender? I might as well suck a few power points out of Darian, fair and square. And who knows? Maybe I have a trick up my sleeve. :) Eh, we just had a Darian/Varjo interleague. I was trying to avoid that. But Picsou would be so helpful! Why, against Varjo he could...uh...er.... :thinks: EDIT: Tactics sent for Balthazar Picsou.
Callix 12-05-07, 10:41 PM	Technically, they are still considered to bring their prebuffed horses and the reward should be adjusted by that. And fixed, I think. 8.33% overall penalty/bonus sound right?
Hirumajoe 12-05-07, 11:41 PM	@TelinArtho: Monster info: Large Undead, vaguely humanoid shaped.
templer10 12-06-07, 01:54 AM	Malik - monster have been rolled - 3 7th level satyr Bards. p.s - do all of those get pipes or just one of them?
templer10 12-06-07, 02:02 AM	Stormwind - Monster has been rolled - 1 medium good looking appearantly human woman.
MindWandererB 12-06-07, 02:52 AM	Malik - monster have been rolled - 3 7th level satyr Bards. p.s - do all of those get pipes or just one of them? Malik already had a monster and tactics from last week: here. Please use those; always check for a setup post from the previous week when you get a Week 2.
templer10 12-06-07, 06:58 AM	Malik already had a monster and tactics from last week: here. Please use those; always check for a setup post from the previous week when you get a Week 2. good to know - there was no setup link in the post.
TelinArtho 12-06-07, 11:17 AM	Kraegin's tactics vs Unknown Monster have been sent. Gotta love large wide-open maps when you have the ability to summon a huge number of huge+ creatures :) I expect Hiruma will not have enough pins on the mapper for this fight...
templer10 12-06-07, 11:48 AM	Kraegin's tactics vs Unknown Monster have been sent. Gotta love large wide-open maps when you have the ability to summon a huge number of huge+ creatures :) I expect Hiruma will not have enough pins on the mapper for this fight... Hmm - when is kraegin ECL 12? Elrick vs kraegin on the plains -that should be one hell of MASSIVE fight - You will need 3 mappers for all those pins...
TelinArtho 12-06-07, 11:55 AM	I'm actually much less likely to use summons against another caster - especially an airborne one... That said - he just hit ECL11. At ECL12 though, he does get his planar cohort - which might make things even more interesting (rather than his second-rate LPA/PA...)
Hirumajoe 12-06-07, 12:03 PM	@Telin: Full Monster info and tactics up if you're curious. Although I'm not positive on using the spectral hand without any actual touch spells other than the negative level drain. I think its ok though.
TelinArtho 12-06-07, 12:09 PM	@Telin: Full Monster info and tactics up if you're curious. Although I'm not positive on using the spectral hand without any actual touch spells other than the negative level drain. I think its ok though. I actually disagree. Spectral hand allows you to deliver touch-range spells through it - not make regular touches. The devourer does have touch spells - so that shouldn't be much of an issue - but I don't think he'll be able to deliver 2/round.
Hirumajoe 12-06-07, 01:21 PM	I actually disagree. Spectral hand allows you to deliver touch-range spells through it - not make regular touches. The devourer does have touch spells - so that shouldn't be much of an issue - but I don't think he'll be able to deliver 2/round. Hmm... Re-reading spectral hand, I think you're right. So basically ghoul touch every round? I guess that works. Here's a question, that also comes up: Can you use Combat Expertise with spectral hand? Its sounds like you can, because its treated as a normal attack, but a second opinion is appreciated.
templer10 12-06-07, 01:24 PM	RITH - tactics for Elrick vs baelin are out - and iam sorry.
TelinArtho 12-06-07, 01:41 PM	Hmm... Re-reading spectral hand, I think you're right. So basically ghoul touch every round? I guess that works. Here's a question, that also comes up: Can you use Combat Expertise with spectral hand? Its sounds like you can, because its treated as a normal attack, but a second opinion is appreciated. No because CE is only usable in melee.
Erithmu 12-06-07, 02:22 PM	RITH - tactics for Elrick vs baelin are out - and iam sorry. got em ... you had me worried there ... I thought they were going to be long .... :P
templer10 12-06-07, 02:29 PM	got em ... you had me worried there ... I thought they were going to be long .... :P Read them before you are so happy
Erithmu 12-06-07, 03:43 PM	Read them before you are so happy I did ... and ... (I can't go into detail w/out giving away some of your tactics ...)
Turanson 12-06-07, 04:16 PM	@templer10: Tatict for Mineau Vs. Marius is sent
templer10 12-06-07, 04:57 PM	Malithar - first part of Malik having a really bad dice day is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14517130&postcount=1544) - so far- all good spaells are wasted, 15 out a couple of Hundred HP done, you want me to continue or you want to call it a day?.
Hirumajoe 12-06-07, 09:02 PM	If a caster is casting a full-round spell, which also happens to be his highest level spell remaining, and during the casting gets hit with a negative level, does he lose the spell? Or is the slot considered "expended" or "used" when he begins casting the spell?
MindWandererB 12-06-07, 09:20 PM	If a caster is casting a full-round spell, which also happens to be his highest level spell remaining, and during the casting gets hit with a negative level, does he lose the spell? Or is the slot considered "expended" or "used" when he begins casting the spell? Hum. Reading the rules, it's kind of ambiguous, but they seem to state that you don't lose the spell from memory until you finish casting it or are interrupted. It's also pretty clear they didn't think of that possibility, but that's my reading of the RAW. The phrase "loses a spell" is used both for the effects of energy drain and for having your concentration interrupted, so I would say that the caster has the spell sucked out from under their nose. Oh, and @whitebaron and Macbrea: tactics are out.
TelinArtho 12-06-07, 10:31 PM	I would agree with MWB here, but I must say - Kraegin does have multiple 6th level slots...
Hirumajoe 12-07-07, 01:45 AM	Well, its turning out so far something like this: Devourer wins initiative. Auto-spots Kraegin. Begins running towards Kraegin. 4th round casts Spectral hand and moves. 5th round cast Ghoul touch and moves (hitting and draining blade barrier - actually, an order of spells to keep might have been handy since its technically the victim's choice). 6th round Devourer acts before Kraegin finishes casting and drains another 6th level spell (you've already cast the 3rd 6th level spell) whose only target is the one you're currently casting: Summon Monster VI. You can see where this is going... Although, I just had a bad thought: Undead can run, right? Even though they lack a constitution score?
MindWandererB 12-07-07, 02:21 AM	Although, I just had a bad thought: Undead can run, right? Even though they lack a constitution score?I'm sure they can; typically, they use a +0 modifier when they need to make a Con-based roll (except for a few cases where Cha is used instead).
Stormwind 12-07-07, 03:10 AM	Stormwind - Monster has been rolled - 1 medium good looking appearantly human woman. @templer10: Tactics for Varjo sent. Let's hope that the monster is having a bad hair day or something ... the good looking apparently human woman monster, not Varjo of course ;)
Durzulgor 12-07-07, 03:30 AM	@Callix: Tactics for Durzulgor I sent Let's see what that mad priestess is up to!
hogarth 12-07-07, 06:58 AM	I'm sure they can; typically, they use a +0 modifier when they need to make a Con-based roll (except for a few cases where Cha is used instead). http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#constitution "A creature with no Constitution cannot tire and thus can run indefinitely without tiring (unless the creature’s description says it cannot run)."
Salrantol 12-07-07, 07:52 AM	Darian Thorne vs. Balthazar Picsou is up. If Darian's second save roll had come first, we might have had a very different result. Darian continues laughing for 5 rounds as Balthazar lies unconscious in the mucky sewers, though.
whitebaron 12-07-07, 08:06 AM	tactics for gwerdan and verren sent...
hogarth 12-07-07, 08:59 AM	Darian Thorne vs. Balthazar Picsou is up. If Darian's second save roll had come first, we might have had a very different result. Darian continues laughing for 5 rounds as Balthazar lies unconscious in the mucky sewers, though. Darian had some pretty lousy luck with the energy missile damage and his second save. I'm not sure that two characters can act simultaneously, though. NOTE: The fight is fine as it stands; there's no way that Balthazar Picsou could have made it out of touchsight range, studied for three rounds, then made it back to do a death attack in 5 rounds.
Macbrea 12-07-07, 09:03 AM	The only item that can act at exactly the same time as another item in D&D is mount and rider.
TelinArtho 12-07-07, 10:09 AM	@Hirumajoe - well - you should still have to make SR checks (since I obviously cast Spell Resistance already). But yes - the darned beastie can run. I am so mad at myself for not noticing the CL18 on the spectral hand... all of my tactics said to do stuff at 200ft and it won't be getting closer than 280ft... BLAH!
Macbrea 12-07-07, 11:26 AM	I am still missing tactics from Wiener Wadbeisser. I need to get the fight started as soon as possible. Gakhnalak Strongjaw (MindWandererB) vs. Wiener Wadlbeisser (Team) : Macbrea [City]
lonewolf 12-07-07, 11:29 AM	I just finished writing our thoughts together and sent them to WB and Mucki for a last check. You should get them pretty soon from one of them.
Hirumajoe 12-07-07, 12:02 PM	@Hirumajoe - well - you should still have to make SR checks (since I obviously cast Spell Resistance already). But yes - the darned beastie can run. There's spell resistance on the Ghoul's touch yes. But spectral hand itself is a "spell resistance: no" type spell. Since by the time it gets into range you're pretty much immune to anything it can do but straight up damage or energy drain, I wasn't bothering to roll the SR on the ghoul's touch. (And even in that case, its 1d20+18 vs SR 23, pretty good odds). I can if you want though. Also, I believe the energy drain goes off, even if the Ghoul's touch is resisted. I am so mad at myself for not noticing the CL18 on the spectral hand... all of my tactics said to do stuff at 200ft and it won't be getting closer than 280ft... BLAH! You certainly still have a fighting chance. As soon as you were in combat, I've started improvising some. Round 5 your Air elemental has moved out to get into charging range. I just stopped at the Devourer's turn on turn 6 because I didn't know what was supposed to happen with the energy drain/spell interaction. Its then going to be a free action summon, and an air elemental charge at the very least. Kraegin will then be casting sanctuary on that round as well, since flamestrike doesn't have the range to reach at the moment. If sanctuary works, you're actually going to be doing fine I think.
TelinArtho 12-07-07, 01:03 PM	There's spell resistance on the Ghoul's touch yes. But spectral hand itself is a "spell resistance: no" type spell. Since by the time it gets into range you're pretty much immune to anything it can do but straight up damage or energy drain, I wasn't bothering to roll the SR on the ghoul's touch. (And even in that case, its 1d20+18 vs SR 23, pretty good odds). I can if you want though. Also, I believe the energy drain goes off, even if the Ghoul's touch is resisted. . Hmm - since the spell would be stopped before it affected me, I would say the energy drain doesn't go off myself (hence the reason I brought it up). I'm not sure of course, because the whole mechanic that is special to the Devourer is not especially well described.
Hirumajoe 12-07-07, 01:23 PM	Hmm - since the spell would be stopped before it affected me, I would say the energy drain doesn't go off myself (hence the reason I brought it up). I'm not sure of course, because the whole mechanic that is special to the Devourer is not especially well described. Living creatures hit by a devourer’s claw attack or spectral hand ability gain one negative level. The DC is 19 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. The save DC is Charisma-based. I think the requirement "Living creature hit by a devourer's spectral hand ability" is met. Now whether the attack does anything other than hit is a completely seperate matter. I'm looking at in this way: If damage reduction reduced the devourer's claw damage to 0, would you still consider it a "hit" for the purposes of draining a level? Yes, you would. Similarly, if spell resistance negates the effect of the spell, it was still a hit. Otherwise, the ghoul's touch wouldn't be wasted because you didn't hit anything and you wouldn't need to roll SR... Another way to look at it: If you had Fire shield and Spell Resistance up somehow, and the spectral hand touched you with a ghoul's touch, and you made the spell resistance, would you expect the spectral hand to take 1d6+1 per level fire damage? (With a 50% chance of avoiding it because its incorpreal, but you get the idea). Again, I think it would. However, I am open to other arguments.
mucki 12-07-07, 01:39 PM	@Macbrea: tactics for the team sent. Sorry for making it so close to the deadline.
TelinArtho 12-07-07, 01:39 PM	Don't worry about it - I don't know if I was really sold on my side anyway. You should still roll the SR and the saving throw on the Ghoul touch though. Not doing so is really a huge advantage to Kraegin...
Hirumajoe 12-07-07, 02:34 PM	@Lonewolf: Tactics for Valen Sky sent. @Templer10: Tactics for Altair sent.
McJarvis 12-07-07, 02:39 PM	Ah yes- Tactics for Marius were sent out this morning.
whitebaron 12-07-07, 05:31 PM	"fight" therador vs. 4 green half dragon hound archons pretty clear result...
lonewolf 12-07-07, 09:24 PM	@Turanson: Im still missing tactics for Mineau Guwango. Im going to sleep now. If I dont have the tactics by the time I get up again, this will be an autoloss.
Turanson 12-08-07, 03:25 AM	@lonewolf sorry I miss read the overview and sent my tatic to templer 10 you will have them right away @templer10: Tatict for Mineau Vs. Marius is sent
whitebaron 12-08-07, 11:55 AM	hey nurlithion, maybe you have missed this, but: your fight is extended, i need your tactics - if i don't get any before the weekend is over, your fight will be a forfeit.
Erithmu 12-08-07, 03:16 PM	Baelin vs Elrick Easy Peazy Lemon Squeezy
templer10 12-08-07, 03:41 PM	Baelin vs Elrick Easy Peazy Lemon Squeezy Don't like to win this way but i suppose a win is a win is a win - Althrough seeing 10+ summons on 1 map could have been fun...
whitebaron 12-08-07, 03:41 PM	Pixie Games on the Plains is up...
Hirumajoe 12-08-07, 07:24 PM	@Templer10: If the pre-buff of share pain and freedom of movement was a mistake, its generally considered good form to inform the opponent before the fight. Sure the hours look odd, but I've seen worse typos, but manifesting share pain before hand certainly seems like a good idea. As for freedom from movement, thats also not necessarily crazy to pre-buff. Given Valen can get pre-buff rounds and surprise rounds, having defensive abilities up before the fight isn't a bad plan. Anyways, just letting you know for the future, if you have a mistake with pre-buffs, please let your opponent know. In this case, its not a big deal, but I was honestly expecting to you have manifested share pain as a pre-buff (which you can do) and a few less pp than you do. (Hence the comments on Freedom of Movement in my tactics under modifications). I thought manifesting freedom of movement to prevent a surprise round dimension door + 1st round telekinetic manuever + solicit psicrystal was a good plan. Thanks.
Hirumajoe 12-08-07, 11:01 PM	Just a heads up, I'm going to be mostly out of contact for a week starting tomorrow. Off to an out of town conference. So don't worry about getting opinions back for the fights my characters are in this week. Also, if there are any major errors on the Kraegin vs Devourer fight, found here, I'm unfortunately not going to have time to fix them.
TelinArtho 12-09-07, 01:00 AM	Just a heads up, I'm going to be mostly out of contact for a week starting tomorrow. Off to an out of town conference. So don't worry about getting opinions back for the fights my characters are in this week. Also, if there are any major errors on the Kraegin vs Devourer fight, found here, I'm unfortunately not going to have time to fix them. Meh - no worries. I sent a minor correction (just in the summary) for correction later, but nothing to redo the fight for. I just didn't see enough and plan well enough to defeat it (and then didn't get lucky enough either...).
templer10 12-09-07, 01:40 AM	@Templer10: If the pre-buff of share pain and freedom of movement was a mistake, its generally considered good form to inform the opponent before the fight. Sure the hours look odd, but I've seen worse typos, but manifesting share pain before hand certainly seems like a good idea. As for freedom from movement, thats also not necessarily crazy to pre-buff. Given Valen can get pre-buff rounds and surprise rounds, having defensive abilities up before the fight isn't a bad plan. Anyways, just letting you know for the future, if you have a mistake with pre-buffs, please let your opponent know. In this case, its not a big deal, but I was honestly expecting to you have manifested share pain as a pre-buff (which you can do) and a few less pp than you do. (Hence the comments on Freedom of Movement in my tactics under modifications). I thought manifesting freedom of movement to prevent a surprise round dimension door + 1st round telekinetic manuever + solicit psicrystal was a good plan. Thanks. Sorry - it was a mistake - i was more then a little rushed when i wrote tactics (which is way some of my calculations ojn pps spent and attack modifiers aer off) so i forgot to let you know - YOu can look at my last fight and see that FOM and shaer pain so it WAS from last week, I generaly wont manifest FOM as a prebuff - not worth the 7 pps to have a 1 in 6 chance for it to keep.
templer10 12-09-07, 04:36 AM	Eamane - i still don't have tactics for Dajeus - if i dont get them by the time i get off work today - 8 or so hours from now - iam calling it a surrender.
Callix 12-09-07, 06:01 AM	Pixie Games on the Plains is up... Thanks for running it. I knew it wasn't a good chance, but I didn't feel like just surrendering again. Still, now Rennae's ECL 5, Flutterthought can see how she likes her. @Eamane: Tactics for Shugho-Zact are long overdue. If I don't have them in 12 hours from this post, that's a forfeit.
lonewolf 12-09-07, 06:46 AM	Marius vs. Mineau Guwango is up. a quick and dirty shootout.
Turanson 12-09-07, 07:40 AM	Hey lonewolf first thanks for the fight, but I have a few questions if I'm wrong just say so. first should I not get a strength roll against 2d6 of the energy push. and second if I faille that roll, I would think that since he is further away from me than he is above me, he is 10 ft. up and 20 ft. away should the blast not send me 10 ft. back where I don't hit any thing a therefor survive ? again thanks for the run and if I'm wrong in the above just disregard it.
lonewolf 12-09-07, 07:46 AM	Hey lonewolf first thanks for the fight, but I have a few questions if I'm wrong just say so. first should I not get a strength roll against 2d6 of the energy push. and second if I faille that roll, I would think that since he is further away from me than he is above me, he is 10 ft. up and 20 ft. away should the blast not send me 10 ft. back where I don't hit any thing a therefor survive ? again thanks for the run and if I'm wrong in the above just disregard it. Youre right about the strength check. I rolled it now and you failed. Since Marius is higher than Mineau the energy push is partly directed downward, so you automatically hit the ground.
Turanson 12-09-07, 07:48 AM	ok Thanks for the run
templer10 12-09-07, 01:29 PM	Dajeus (Eamane) vs. Altair (Hirumajoe) : templer10 [Arena] is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14539155&postcount=1550) - such as it is.
templer10 12-09-07, 02:01 PM	verren vs lord matsuni is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14539238&postcount=1551) - i love short fights
lonewolf 12-09-07, 04:25 PM	Lord matsuni single moves and spots verren and minifstes an enlarged mind thrust – will DC 16 – fail, 29 dmg and verren falls. but he's 2 far to mind thrust so he moves again towards him. maybe its just me, but I have no idea what this should mean. He moves, manifests and then moves again because he wasnt close enough to manifest in the first place?? :confused:
templer10 12-09-07, 04:35 PM	maybe its just me, but I have no idea what this should mean. He moves, manifests and then moves again because he wasnt close enough to manifest in the first place?? :confused: meant - he moved then manifested - orignaly i just had him double move - but then noticed has enlrage power and wanted to use that so i changed it.
whitebaron 12-09-07, 05:27 PM	verren vs lord matsuni is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14539238&postcount=1551) - i love short fights i want my charge of the dorje back. matsuni stated that he wants to move in round 1. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=cavern;a=Name,M,6,6,10, 10;b=Name,M,4,27,8,23;los=8,23,10,10,2;s tyle=s i should see him and start with energy missile instead. and something else: centermost square did not mean the square in the center of my box.
templer10 12-09-07, 05:47 PM	i want my charge of the dorje back. matsuni stated that he wants to move in round 1. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=cavern;a=Name,M,6,6,10, 10;b=Name,M,4,27,8,23;los=8,23,10,10,2;s tyle=s i should see him and start with energy missile instead. and something else: centermost square did not mean the square in the center of my box. rereading it - i see he did want to move in first round - doesnt change anything but you do get that dorja charge back. p.s - if centermost doesnt mean center of start square i dont know what else it can mean - but it might be an English as a second language thing. p.s.s Ill edit tommarow - going to sleep
MindWandererB 12-09-07, 05:49 PM	and something else: centermost square did not mean the square in the center of my box.Without saying what "center" you're referring to, there's no way of knowing what your intent was. @templer: If you change your mind about the way you did something, don't leave both in there. Put the one you didn't do in an sblock, or use strikethrough, or something, but don't leave it for the reader to guess.
whitebaron 12-09-07, 06:55 PM	p.s - if centermost doesnt mean center of start square i dont know what else it can mean - but it might be an English as a second language thing. ***most = closest to *** mwb stated that i did not say which center was meant. in the context of an arena, is there any other center you could mean than the map-center? else you'd say start in center, not centermost. also, reading my tactics would have provided that information, too, as i wanted to move towards the center as first single action i take in the whole fight.
TelinArtho 12-09-07, 07:05 PM	FWIW wb - centermost to me, without a context, would refer to the center of the starting area - ie - the default.
Callix 12-09-07, 10:11 PM	Shugho-Zact vs Durzulgor is up. No response; Eamane surrenders. Light week for me, at least :)
Durzulgor 12-09-07, 10:36 PM	cheap win for me! Makes up for last weeks defeat! ^^ The reason why I'm still not quite happy with this ending: My tactics! Damn, I think I thought about nearly all possibilities! ;-) Thx for pitlording though, Callix
Callix 12-09-07, 11:22 PM	cheap win for me! Makes up for last weeks defeat! ^^ The reason why I'm still not quite happy with this ending: My tactics! Damn, I think I thought about nearly all possibilities! ;-) Thx for pitlording though, Callix Pitlording? What pitlording? I just posted the surrenders this week. Still, gives me plenty of time to work on my dragon. I think I found a couple of ways to get the CDG damage up high enough.
Durzulgor 12-10-07, 12:09 AM	well, let me phrase it differently: "..for the willingness to do the pitlording!" ;-) CDG damage for a dragon without a bag of tricks? I'm intrigued
whitebaron 12-10-07, 03:23 AM	FWIW wb - centermost to me, without a context, would refer to the center of the starting area - ie - the default. so, if i wrote "start nearest to the center", this too, means that it's relative to the starting box? since thats the wording most people use, and they got understood pretty fine so far. and my context was even "move towards the center". but ok, i'll go back to kindergarten wordings...
MindWandererB 12-10-07, 04:01 AM	Since you weren't here at the time, I might mention: our previous DM, Caterane, quit and left the job to me, in no small part because of a debate over the term "base." Cat's a native German speaker as well; to him, base meant "go to melee with them," but to us native English speakers it meant "come into base contact with them." He was infuriated because the pitlord refused to alter the fight because Cat made a language mistake and didn't say what he meant--or at least, it was ambiguous. So I'm glad you're not throwing a fit and quitting like he did (there were other reasons, but that was the last and big straw), but be aware that extreme precision in your language is a good idea.
Salrantol 12-10-07, 06:19 AM	One of the problems, of course, with ambiguous language, is that if we would accept what people claim they meant after the fight is posted, then we'd get too many people using ambiguous language and stating later that they meant the other meaning. Verbal precision is more important here than in any field, save, perhaps, politics. Say *exactly* what you mean in clear, unambiguous language, and others will back you up if the pitlord screws it up; don't and they won't, and with good reason. And with regard to the word "centermost," it depends on which "center" you are referring, and without a reference to the center to which you are referring, the pitlord has to make a judgment call. Taking the time to type out "nearest the center of the map" will be worth the effort every time.
whitebaron 12-10-07, 07:43 AM	@sal: sure thing. there has to be no rule to allow unambigous wording, but: what i want to stress here, though, is that i stated to start in the centermost square, and then move to the center :rolleyes: => if the wording is ambigous, it's twice ambigous, and i'd have never even left the starting square. but obviously, it's easy to understand "move to the center", but hard to understand "start closest to the center" - and i really don't know why. Start with [xxx] in hand in the centermost square you can find. single move towards center, use [yyy]. if i can already see him, start blasting instead.This seems to me pretty precise. if, in the context of the arena, nothing specifically is specified, you ought to use the most unspecific ones - that's why everyone moves a gladiator towards the center [of the arena] even if he failed to add those 3 little words. Or if someone states to "move out clockwise", you won't let him circle around his starting box, right? @mwb: please don't assume that this is because of native speaking or language issues, as it's pretty clear that my english is up to par. i just think that people reading the same word ("center") differently within 3 lines of text is - strange. there might be specifics you don't get as non native speaker, as some figures of speech translate badly. about the word base: this is not language-dependent, it's context-dependent. this has nothing to do with translation, it's just what you interpret as "basing". even more so, because the usage of base in this context (dnd) is not the usual meaning of this word. it could be melee, close quarters or even mean being below the other. ;) what i wanted to stress most, in regards to this fight (which was a clear loss) is that pitlords really should read the tactics before running the fight. it's pretty obvious to me t10 read them while running. and that's with 2 tactics together being shorter than the introductions to longshots fights.
hogarth 12-10-07, 08:42 AM	so, if i wrote "start nearest to the center", this too, means that it's relative to the starting box? since thats the wording most people use, and they got understood pretty fine so far. and my context was even "move towards the center". but ok, i'll go back to kindergarten wordings... Didn't we have essentially the same confusion conversation when you said you wanted your character to start in the "front left corner"? That's why I prefer to say "start in cell (3,3)"; not only is it more precise, it's shorter! :)
Macbrea 12-10-07, 08:55 AM	Fight wise even a maximum hit from the energy missile wouldn't kill Lord Matsuni at 37hps. Assuming 3d6+3 = 21 damage. So, the end result should be exactly the same result. I am fine with refunding him the charge of the dorje and calling it a day.
McJarvis 12-10-07, 09:01 AM	Since you weren't here at the time, I might mention: our previous DM, Caterane, quit and left the job to me, in no small part because of a debate over the term "base." Cat's a native German speaker as well; to him, base meant "go to melee with them," but to us native English speakers it meant "come into base contact with them." He was infuriated because the pitlord refused to alter the fight because Cat made a language mistake and didn't say what he meant--or at least, it was ambiguous. So I'm glad you're not throwing a fit and quitting like he did (there were other reasons, but that was the last and big straw), but be aware that extreme precision in your language is a good idea. Heh. Not that I think what Cat did was right- but wasn't there something about that part of the fight changing when ToK re-did it? ;) RE: WB: Cat was VERY fluent as well. What MWB is referring to is a cultural language difference. (I think) In gameshops over here in the states "basing" means to touch bases with, largely because of mini games being so popular nowadays. On the same note, though, I have to say that b/c of my not being in game shops much nowadays I just took "basing" as meaning "getting into melee with" as well =\
mucki 12-10-07, 11:12 AM	What MWB is referring to is a cultural language difference. This is actually an often overlooked point. I think of myself of quite fluent in english, but I have noticed time and time again that even pretty simple things are interpreted quite differently in different countries. And this has nothing to do with being german speaking either. The same differences exist between english and american people. @WB: not that it matters, but actually I would have interpreted centermost as the pitlord did, meanign relative to your starting square since that is what you are talking about when you talk initial positioning (probably even more so since many people seem to refer to the position you had in mind as "in the front of my starting square")
whitebaron 12-10-07, 06:26 PM	Nemion is missing more arrows is up.
lonewolf 12-10-07, 06:40 PM	Longshot vs Valen is up. @Hirumajoe: You were in a bad position to begin with and the dice didnt really help... Im still working on the rewards & 3FC section. EDIT: done, and while doing so I noticed that I missed the Energy retort, which killed Valen even sooner.
CrazyArtificer 12-10-07, 06:50 PM	Nemion is missing more arrows is up. Thanks for pitlording.. starting with a win is always nice :). Too bad this was a mirror fight. Congrats to Nurlithion, luck won this (especially as Nemion failed the Will save by just 1, being a gnome paid out ;)). Some points/questions.. 1) My Shield scrolls are CL 2. It would have expired in round 22, rather than 12. 2) Did you consider concealment from the smokestick? Maybe I'm wrong, but I supposed that once the smokestick is lit it remains a smoke in the area like fog cloud. Given that the arena isn't subject to wind, I supposed it would grant concealment (if staying there). This is just to know if this tactic is doable in the following fights. 3) How do I link the automatic package? I put it right under the title line. 4) How do I strikethrough used spells/items?
hogarth 12-10-07, 07:42 PM	3) How do I link the automatic package? I put it right under the title line. 4) How do I strikethrough used spells/items? 3) Wrap it with the following tags: [post=6466576 ] and [/post ] 4) The tags are [s ] and [/s ] (Remove the spaces, though.)
MindWandererB 12-10-07, 08:54 PM	This is actually an often overlooked point. I think of myself of quite fluent in english, but I have noticed time and time again that even pretty simple things are interpreted quite differently in different countries. And this has nothing to do with being german speaking either. The same differences exist between english and american people.Yeah, that is what I was getting at. Cat's English was better than that of a lot of native speakers on these boards. (Not many people get the difference between "elegy" and "eulogy" correct, and I remember that.) I recall using tactics where I started more toward the back, and still wanted to run out to engage quickly, because I was afraid of being caught flat-footed with LOS. So it's possible.
MindWandererB 12-10-07, 10:37 PM	@Callix: Character sheets need to be copied into surrenders for bookkeeping purposes. Thanks.
Macbrea 12-10-07, 11:47 PM	The Gak with buddy vs party fight is done here,here, and here. I need to figure out how the exp and gold is suppose to work with a 1 on 3 fight. When one of the 3 has politcal connections +23% but they all must have exactly the same exp incoming.
MindWandererB 12-10-07, 11:58 PM	The Gak with buddy vs party fight is done here,here, and here. I need to figure out how the exp and gold is suppose to work with a 1 on 3 fight. When one of the 3 has politcal connections +23% but they all must have exactly the same exp incoming. In a party, all bonuses and penalties are divided across all members. So political connections earns them +7.6667% each. Gak's Enlarge Person was also from a scroll, please correct.
MindWandererB 12-11-07, 12:37 AM	@Mac: I see you've done rewards, but it looks like you forgot Gak's ally (+/- 25%).
Taureus_Drakken 12-11-07, 01:47 AM	@ Salrantol & whitebaron: The grappler fight comes down to Wand of Magic Missile vs Dorje of Vigor...With the ability to use See Invisibility, and Expeditious Retreat, Mienrad can effectively stay out of Gwerdan's grasp for an indefinite amount of time. (either until the spells all run out, or he runs out of charges in his wand [his wand has more charges than the dorje of vigor]) How do you both want to handle this conundrum? ~Taureus~
whitebaron 12-11-07, 03:41 AM	my speed is 100ft/round and still i cannot catch a single moving and mm shooting opponent? he should have only 90... but generally i'd say: vigor gives more hp than mm does damage (vigor gives fixed what mms max-damage is) and the charge is cheaper (30 vs 45), therefore - wait what sal says, but i would advise HIM to resign - gwerdan only resigns to monsters. @macbrea: we should get 400 * (1+ (23/3%+25%)) = 400* 1.3266666 = 531, but i have no time to check on the fight itself.
mucki 12-11-07, 04:08 AM	This is not meant offensive, but just a question so I can reword tactics better in the future: why does Khamul stand around most of the fight, readying for something that will obviously not happen, when the tactics say he wants to do dmg to gak and he has a bow with him that he could use to shoot? (it even says to do so in the "common sense" default tactics on my sheet (though i probably should have mentioned that in the tactics)).
Callix 12-11-07, 04:41 AM	@Callix: Character sheets need to be copied into surrenders for bookkeeping purposes. Thanks. Thanks for the heads-up. The books may now be kept.
CrazyArtificer 12-11-07, 06:49 AM	3) Wrap it with the following tags: [post=6466576 ] and [/post ] I can't get it to work.. it just remains written as Automatic skill package: I'd also like to have an answer on: 2) Did you consider concealment from the smokestick? Maybe I'm wrong, but I supposed that once the smokestick is lit it remains a smoke in the area like fog cloud. Given that the arena isn't subject to wind, I supposed it would grant concealment (if staying there). This is just to know if this tactic is doable in the following fights. just so I know if smokesticks are useful or not.
hogarth 12-11-07, 06:50 AM	The Gak with buddy vs party fight is done here,here, and here. Not that it matters in this case, but for future reference Blindness/Deafness is a Fort save, not a Will save.
hogarth 12-11-07, 06:58 AM	I can't get it to work.. it just remains written as Automatic skill package:. You have to remove the space from the first post tag.
CrazyArtificer 12-11-07, 07:01 AM	You have to remove the space from the first post tag. Did that, still won't work. Nevertheless, a retry never hurts. Is it ok now? http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14349473&postcount=1264
Salrantol 12-11-07, 07:03 AM	my speed is 100ft/round and still i cannot catch a single moving and mm shooting opponent? he should have only 90...Maybe if he's blasting you every other round. But I've been in enough "get in melee vs. stay at range" fights to know better than to try that. It could go either way in the sewer. I'd like to see the fight played out.
hogarth 12-11-07, 07:06 AM	Did that, still won't work. Nevertheless, a retry never hurts. Is it ok now? http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14349473&postcount=1264 Looks fine to me, mate! Although you only really need to link the part labelled "Automatic Skill Package: Court Connections".
CrazyArtificer 12-11-07, 07:08 AM	Looks fine to me, mate! Although you only really need to link the part labelled "Automatic Skill Package: Court Connections". Ok, fixed that too ;) Thanks for the help
Macbrea 12-11-07, 08:56 AM	This is not meant offensive, but just a question so I can reword tactics better in the future: why does Khamul stand around most of the fight, readying for something that will obviously not happen, when the tactics say he wants to do dmg to gak and he has a bow with him that he could use to shoot? (it even says to do so in the "common sense" default tactics on my sheet (though i probably should have mentioned that in the tactics)). I didn't pull out the bow because the cleric was 50ft away. I choose not to leave the Crucio to charge the cleric or draw a bow because you had tactics that stated to ready and stick close to your target. If I had the given up the glaive for the bow, it would have left the shooter exposed to a charge. Tactics wise, I tried to stay somewhat true to the tactics. If it was a real game I am pretty sure the three of those characters would have spread out at that point to prevent a hover over. But changing the tactics that much without them becoming broken has always gotten me gripped at. I generally don't improvise that much.
whitebaron 12-11-07, 10:20 AM	1) My Shield scrolls are CL 2. It would have expired in round 22, rather than 12. 2) Did you consider concealment from the smokestick? Maybe I'm wrong, but I supposed that once the smokestick is lit it remains a smoke in the area like fog cloud. Given that the arena isn't subject to wind, I supposed it would grant concealment (if staying there). This is just to know if this tactic is doable in the following fights. @1: missed that, but would not change the fight. @2: it would be usable, yes, but i figured in hindsight that as you both cannot see in or out, ill just stick with the previous tactics after the smoke dissipates naturally. the cloud would dissipate naturally in the arena as well, whatever that means in terms of round, i don't know. if you want to know for sure how long it takes for the smoke to dissipate, bring it to the courtroom... @sal: all i got to say to that is - poor taureus... money-wise, it will be the bigger loss for you as you simply won't kill me with mm vs dorje of vigor...
mucki 12-11-07, 10:26 AM	If I had the given up the glaive for the bow, it would have left the shooter exposed to a charge. Ah, i haven't thought of that. That makes pretty much sense actually.
templer10 12-11-07, 10:30 AM	@sal: all i got to say to that is - poor taureus... money-wise, it will be the bigger loss for you as you simply won't kill me with mm vs dorje of vigor... not that i know the fight or anything - but that isnt always true - with a wand of MM3 vs a dorja of vigor ml2 the MM wand can win DUE to it's lower avrage damage (depending when you asked to redo vigor - didn't check) if you asked to revigor when the first vigor was expanded there's a good chance that you lost some "real" hp before you revigored - on avrage 4 - since the first MM wont expand the whole vigor you only revigor after the second MM which also did soem "real" dmg.
CrazyArtificer 12-11-07, 11:03 AM	@1: missed that, but would not change the fight. I know, just wanted to point it out for future fights.:)
templer10 12-11-07, 01:27 PM	varjo vs erinyes is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14547704&postcount=1553)
Stormwind 12-11-07, 01:51 PM	varjo vs erinyes is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14547704&postcount=1553) Thanks for the run, it was about what I expected ... only a snowball's chance in hell ... and Varjo just didn't get that lucky.
Taureus_Drakken 12-11-07, 02:01 PM	The tale of two grapplers is up. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14557248&postcount=1559) Sadly, there wasn't any grappling.:weep: My assumption from before was incorrect after I 'remembered' that Gwerdan has a speed of 50-ft... Comments? Questions? ~Taureus~
Salrantol 12-11-07, 03:17 PM	not that i know the fight or anything - but that isnt always true - with a wand of MM3 vs a dorja of vigor ml2 the MM wand can win DUE to it's lower avrage damage (depending when you asked to redo vigor - didn't check) if you asked to revigor when the first vigor was expanded there's a good chance that you lost some "real" hp before you revigored - on avrage 4 - since the first MM wont expand the whole vigor you only revigor after the second MM which also did soem "real" dmg.That was the reason I made the decision to go forward. I couldn't at that point see his tactics to know if he would refresh Vigor every time he was hit or what.
Salrantol 12-11-07, 03:22 PM	The tale of two grapplers is up. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14557248&postcount=1559) Sadly, there wasn't any grappling.:weep: My assumption from before was incorrect after I 'remembered' that Gwerdan has a speed of 50-ft... Comments? Questions? ~Taureus~Looking at the fight, I see a glaring problem.The Water: The murky green water is 1ft deep and counts as difficult terrain. Since large creatures use up four squares, they are always affected by the water.This means that, per move action, while Meinrad is still moving 60ft, Gwerdan is moving 25, due to Expansion. Would Gwerdan like to surrender?
whitebaron 12-11-07, 04:06 PM	Looking at the fight, I see a glaring problem.This means that, per move action, while Meinrad is still moving 60ft, Gwerdan is moving 25, due to Expansion. Would Gwerdan like to surrender? don't count on it. you'd still need to use your charges. i won't give you that many MM charges for free. especially since you chicken'd out of the grapple. :) but it's true, i missed the sewers completely in my tactics at first, and put something that related to it only later into them when i noticed. the water completely evaded my knowledge. about the movement: maybe gwerdan gets some kind of check from the pitlord (int or wis, for all i care) to notice that he can't catch up like that and dismiss the expansion. not that it matters, @taureus: if i base him to 5ft distance when large, i get an AoO even if he withdraws, as natural reach is 10ft, and withdraw only gives you 1 free square, but he has to leave 2 squares.
Taureus_Drakken 12-11-07, 06:25 PM	Looking at the fight, I see a glaring problem.This means that, per move action, while Meinrad is still moving 60ft, Gwerdan is moving 25, due to Expansion. Would Gwerdan like to surrender? Ugh...I guess this means this will get held over because it's after the deadline now. I will get started on the edit tomorrow, as I have a full night of DMing ahead of me. not that it matters, @taureus: if i base him to 5ft distance when large, i get an AoO even if he withdraws, as natural reach is 10ft, and withdraw only gives you 1 free square, but he has to leave 2 squares. I totally spaced on this, and will make sure to remember it in the edit. Taureus~
MindWandererB 12-12-07, 05:00 PM	Ugh...I guess this means this will get held over because it's after the deadline now. I will get started on the edit tomorrow, as I have a full night of DMing ahead of me. I totally spaced on this, and will make sure to remember it in the edit. Taureus~ I am taking this to mean that the fight is a holdover, even though it is described as complete in the fight post. Please do something to take the guesswork out for me next time; best solution is to send Pitlords a PM and edit the fight just so the Rewards section doesn't look complete.