Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 10:27 AM	Fights of the Week: January 24th Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM Caterane will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Make sure that your character is not in prison (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571107&goto=lastpost). Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Recent News and Developments If you're in a guild (or just interested in it) the World Event is in its Xth week, where X is a random number between 2 and 922. Also if you're interested in the guild system please vote in the "Discussion: What should the guild system be like?" Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
MitzaVolchenko 01-24-07, 01:07 PM	Hey Telin, can you dig up the distance calculator link which Mal-2 wrote to do three-dimensional-D&D-Pythagoras-don't-live-here math for us and add it to the top post?
hogarth 01-24-07, 01:08 PM	Hey Telin, can you dig up the distance calculator link which Mal-2 wrote to do three-dimensional-D&D-Pythagoras-don't-live-here math for us and add it to the top post? Wait -- are you telling me that the square root of 2 isn't 1.5? Oh man...I'm totally going to flunk my trig midterm.
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 01:17 PM	Hey Telin, can you dig up the distance calculator link which Mal-2 wrote to do three-dimensional-D&D-Pythagoras-don't-live-here math for us and add it to the top post? I have no clue what you are talking about unfortunately. If you want me to post it though - get me a link and I will add it. (Sorry - I don't have time to search myself - especially if I don't have an approximate time frame or location)
MindWandererB 01-24-07, 01:36 PM	Here ya go: http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php
MitzaVolchenko 01-24-07, 01:54 PM	Here ya go: http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php LOL...just found it and was coming to post it up for him. That tool is a lifesaver in the aerial combats where blast ranges are crucial. I keep forgetting to bookmark it and usually just nag Mal-2 or Macbrea for the link when I need it again. With new pitlords (hopefully even more all the time), itis nice to give them easy to use tools.
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 03:00 PM	And time's up.
Pitlords 01-24-07, 04:06 PM	PAIRINGS DONE Credit Changes: +6: Sauro +4: Magister +3: McJarvis, Sjiggie, Cat +2: Rith, Maraxus, MWB, Mitza, User, Iced +1: Abyssal, Rauul, Telin, Zevox, Vath, Niqil +0: Macbrea @orsono: Profession is no valid Full Activity. @McJarvis: You cannot miniquest at ECL 3. FYI: I'm out of town for a few days but I'm back on tuesday at the latest, probably even sunday.
Macbrea 01-24-07, 04:27 PM	@all: Bets Mitza is going to scratch her head in frustration! Tactics sent for Varsh!
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 04:33 PM	@Abyssal - tactics for Anakala have been sent. @Vath - preliminary ideas for Jar-red/Hassan have been sent.
Macbrea 01-24-07, 04:47 PM	@TheMagister: Tactics for Izumi have been sent!
Maraxus 01-24-07, 04:51 PM	Wow, the plains are definitly Zassl's most uncomfortable Map of all and he has to fight an archer there! In the forrest - No problem, underground - easy, that's his house but on the plains? Damn, I definitly have to find something surprising. Edit: Done. Tactics sent. See the time to see how long it took. ;)
Erithmu 01-24-07, 04:53 PM	@McJ: tactics for Torel forwarded from last week.
Zevox 01-24-07, 05:37 PM	Wow, the plains are definitly Zassl's most uncomfortable Map of all and he has to fight an archer there! In the forrest - No problem, underground - easy, that's his house but on the plains? Damn, I definitly have to find something surprising. I think you'd best rethink the forest thing - if anywhere is Eraca's territory, its there. :devil: The plains aren't her favorite place either (too exposed too quickly), but in this case I think it should work out. Zevox
Always-Late 01-24-07, 05:44 PM	Did I do something wrong ? I'm not paired.
MindWandererB 01-24-07, 06:07 PM	Did I do something wrong ? I'm not paired. Yup. Your title reads "Re: Characters of Gladius". It needs to be "Ready for January 24 [Fight 1]; Free Activity XXX". @Telin, UserNamer, and Zevox: Tactics have been sent. Easy, medium, and hard. For writing tactics, that is, not in order of the difficulty of the battles. @McJarvis: Tactics have been forwarded.
McJarvis 01-24-07, 06:16 PM	@McJarvis: You cannot miniquest at ECL 3. Since when? o_O (this is how Mort leveled up, after all...) Of course, my next question is...why on earth not??
Zevox 01-24-07, 07:31 PM	Since when? o_O (this is how Mort leveled up, after all...) Of course, my next question is...why on earth not?? Since we "dumbed down" the ECL 3 and 4 leagues to make them more new player-friendly. No quest/miniquests was, for some strange reason, one of the things removed from the ECL 3 options, in spite of some people pointing out that as they're optional and confer no advantages to characters its a rather silly decision. @ MWB - Got 'em. Zevox
orsono 01-24-07, 07:53 PM	Gashara was not in added to the pairings. she has been ready since the 20th. I already pm'd the pitlords but wanted to see if it was posible for her to be added for this week.
orsono 01-24-07, 07:58 PM	damn!!! I see what happened I put full activity profession.... when all I wanted to do was use my free activity for proffesion!! do this means I am going to have to wait for next week? Gashara was not in added to the pairings. she has been ready since the 20th. I already pm'd the pitlords but wanted to see if it was posible for her to be added for this week.
Zevox 01-24-07, 08:12 PM	@ McJarvis - Tactics for Mithos Durrol (vs Ikhain al-Habari) have been PMed. Damn, I hate fighting against characters I've sent on errands... @ Orsono - Depends on if we have a spare Pitlord yet this week. If someone could still take one, theoretically you could be given a monster fight. If not, I'm sorry to say you probably will be out of luck this week. Zevox
McJarvis 01-24-07, 08:17 PM	Since we "dumbed down" the ECL 3 and 4 leagues to make them more new player-friendly. No quest/miniquests was, for some strange reason, one of the things removed from the ECL 3 options, in spite of some people pointing out that as they're optional and confer no advantages to characters its a rather silly decision. I remember that discussion. It was after it happened that Mort and company went on that miniquest....I just assumed we didn't include quests/miniquests in the restrictions on new players(since RP should be encouraged here) Ah well...
Maraxus 01-24-07, 08:21 PM	So, after Zassl, Balrog is ready, two. Seams like the plains fight today is highly complicated, with lot's of "When" and "if", while the forrest fight might not be easy but is definitly simple.
Always-Late 01-24-07, 08:22 PM	Yup. Your title reads "Re: Characters of Gladius". It needs to be "Ready for January 24 [Fight 1]; Free Activity XXX".*whistles* I'm an idiot. That's two weeks now. Oh well, tehre's always next week...
Sutro 01-24-07, 08:33 PM	Alternatively, if someone could pick it up Always Late vs. Orsono...
orsono 01-24-07, 08:40 PM	Zevox that sounds good. if you have a avalible pitlord I would not mind fighting a random monster. if not then I will fix it for next week. thanks!
orsono 01-24-07, 08:41 PM	LoL @ Always-Late! I am in the same boat! I messed up my character 2 weeks in a row so I been missing my matches :-)
Etiquette_Gnome 01-24-07, 09:15 PM	I'm assuming that UserNamer and I do not need to send you our tactics to our Pitlord, as it is a carry-over and our tactics were posted publically in the January 17th thread?
Milov 01-24-07, 09:15 PM	Tactics for Ihdald was sent off, what a fun looking fight :D
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 09:42 PM	Always Late and Orsono - I will take the fight. Send a PM to Pitlords with the character names and that I am taking the fight. Since it is an ECL 3 fight - it is in the arena.
Always-Late 01-24-07, 09:50 PM	Always Late and Orsono - I will take the fight. Send a PM to Pitlords with the character names and that I am taking the fight. Since it is an ECL 3 fight - it is in the arena.Thank you very much! Maybe I won't have to sit this one after all... but then again, I might. Because I just checked and Orsonos' character is ECL 4? Is that bad?
Zevox 01-24-07, 10:20 PM	@ MindWandererB - Tactics for Eraca Moralta (vs Zassl) PMed. Theres a lot more contingencies in there than I expected to have... should be an interesting fight. Zevox
Vathelokai 01-24-07, 10:27 PM	Thank you very much! Maybe I won't have to sit this one after all... but then again, I might. Because I just checked and Orsonos' character is ECL 4? Is that bad? It's allowed. The lower level character gets a suprise round to compensate.
Vathelokai 01-24-07, 10:28 PM	@Telin: team tactics ideas sent.
Hirumajoe 01-24-07, 10:53 PM	@Macbrea: Tactics sent for Valen Sky.
NiQil 01-24-07, 11:37 PM	@ TheMagister: Tactics for Blizzard sent via PM. @ TelinArtho: Tactics for Wildfire sent via PM.
Eluria 01-24-07, 11:50 PM	@ Usernamer: Tactics for Qwogi sent; thanks!
orsono 01-24-07, 11:51 PM	@ TelinArtho Tactics for Gashara sent. use the Updated one. thanks for taking the late fight! -Orsono
Vathelokai 01-24-07, 11:53 PM	@Telin: tactics for Auburn sent @Sauro: tactics for Denshi sent
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 12:23 AM	@Zevox and Maraxus: Tactics received. Will work on it tomorrow.
Erithmu 01-25-07, 12:25 AM	@Sauro: Tactics for Loddick sent.
Iced 01-25-07, 12:58 AM	How many El below your character's EL does a Miniquest have to be to count as out of cycle?
Abyssal Stalker 01-25-07, 01:29 AM	Since we "dumbed down" the ECL 3 and 4 leagues to make them more new player-friendly. No quest/miniquests was, for some strange reason, one of the things removed from the ECL 3 options, in spite of some people pointing out that as they're optional and confer no advantages to characters its a rather silly decision. @ MWB - Got 'em. Zevox I sent some angry PMs to Cat last week, because of Ikhain's illegal MQ that eventually was changed to a monster fight (because it was noticed too late). Actually the reasoning behind the decision was quite solid; they are a drain in pitlord resources (when new memebers create new characters, miniquest, and in two weeks disappear or dump the character). Yes, they are an extra option that can be ignored by new members, but the workload they create (too often in vain) is too much.
Sutro 01-25-07, 03:47 AM	@Rauul - Weapon's tactics sent.
TwoPi 01-25-07, 10:52 AM	@Usernamer Tatics for Gell Thokk sent
Sjiggie 01-25-07, 11:08 AM	@ The Magister: Tactics for Zerth vs Blizzard sent any problems send a PM. @Rauul tactics recieved @Nightbanegod please send your tactics soon if not by the deadline I run you from default or let you forfeit if you don't have default tactics.
Zevox 01-25-07, 11:34 AM	@ TelinArtho - Tactics for Featylec Elendi (vs Auburn) have been PMed. Hope that one doesn't get too crazy (summoner vs hide-in-plain-sight sniper... oh boy). Zevox
TelinArtho 01-25-07, 11:41 AM	Thank you very much! Maybe I won't have to sit this one after all... but then again, I might. Because I just checked and Orsonos' character is ECL 4? Is that bad? Yeah - now that I see what is going on it looks like you two will be out of luck this week. Sorry about the confusion - I just assumed the two of you were ECL3.
UserNamer 01-25-07, 01:21 PM	@ Usernamer: Tactics for Qwogi sent; thanks! received
UserNamer 01-25-07, 01:22 PM	@Usernamer Tatics for Gell Thokk sent got em
UserNamer 01-25-07, 01:24 PM	Yup. Your title reads "Re: Characters of Gladius". It needs to be "Ready for January 24 [Fight 1]; Free Activity XXX". @Telin, UserNamer, and Zevox: Tactics have been sent. Easy, medium, and hard. For writing tactics, that is, not in order of the difficulty of the battles. @McJarvis: Tactics have been forwarded. got those too
UserNamer 01-25-07, 01:25 PM	@Etuiquette_Gnome: I've got your tactics too.
Abyssal Stalker 01-25-07, 01:44 PM	McJ: tactics sent for Ikhain. @Zevox: May the most foul noble win :) This could be an interesting roleplay situation.
MitzaVolchenko 01-25-07, 01:47 PM	I sent some angry PMs to Cat last week, because of Ikhain's illegal MQ that eventually was changed to a monster fight (because it was noticed too late). Actually the reasoning behind the decision was quite solid; they are a drain in pitlord resources (when new memebers create new characters, miniquest, and in two weeks disappear or dump the character). Yes, they are an extra option that can be ignored by new members, but the workload they create (too often in vain) is too much. Considering that classically I have taken any and all MQ's offered because they are more fun to run than pit fights, I find that answer to be bunk. I would rather see PL resources go to MQ's than go to three quarters of the guild stuff. We might as well consider every MQ ever run for NiQil a waste...he will retire his stable when they start to get interesting. Oooh and Macbrea...he retires characters too...those Quests for Marcus Tallfellow, may he enjoy his days as a pirate, are a waste too. Some classes require quests to gain them. Warmind, Assassin, Pyro etc. Why shouldn't a character be allowed to run it early and have all reqs met by the time they hit level to join the class? Heck better to run them low and not have a problem defeating whatever random beastie they hit later which is equated in CoCo because afterall ECL=CR=LA=EL, right? While we definitely needed to get rid of the FFA/Hunter/Arena switching craziness at that level, removing quests is silly. The one Quest per level rule should be sufficient to limit the number that happen. Of the active PL's who thought this was a good idea? *shrugs* End rant. Anyone that wants me to run their fight in a seperate thread with some RP attached no matter what the level, has but to ask. If you want to take that option, please ask early and be sure your opponent (unless it is a monster) is in agreement. I have no porblem with it and encourage it as it makes the gladiators more than scraps of paper.
MitzaVolchenko 01-25-07, 02:33 PM	@Erithmu Tactics for Zwei sent, please let me know if you want the long version that includes every possible If-then I can think of.
Erithmu 01-25-07, 03:09 PM	@Erithmu Tactics for Zwei sent, please let me know if you want the long version that includes every possible If-then I can think of. Reply sent and question answered I can work with those, thanks.
UserNamer 01-25-07, 03:25 PM	Qwogi Drellfarrow vs. Hiisi Ivaldi is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11286354&postcount=502).
UserNamer 01-25-07, 03:25 PM	Gakhnalak Strongjaw vs. Gell Thokk is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11288025&postcount=503).
TheMagister 01-25-07, 03:38 PM	@my gladiators - I start my night shifts on Friday evening (5:30 pm US Central) - I'll start my fights then. Your tactics deadline with me this week is Saturday evening (US Central). I already have received tactics from Macbrea, Maraxus, Niqil, and Sjiggie. Izumi vs. Balrog will be run first. TM
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 04:09 PM	Gakhnalak Strongjaw vs. Gell Thokk is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11288025&postcount=503). @UserNamer: It was a scroll of Shield, not Mage Armor. Gell does get one attack attempt at the end, if he survives the AoO for standing, but it wouldn't help. @TwoPi: You can't power attack with a light weapon, and mindblades are considered short swords, which are light.
Zevox 01-25-07, 04:28 PM	The edit/rerun of Zax & Durin vs Maelosh & Sybil is done. As expected, no game-altering changes. Zevox
TheMagister 01-25-07, 04:33 PM	@Maraxus and McJarvis - preliminary tactical thoughts along with a rough outline sent to McJ's PM box. If possible, could McJ and I beg a small extension (maybe six - ten hours) on our tactics deadline? I'll get to work (and acquire computer access beyond the public library) and we'll be able to hammer out cleaner tactics if you grant us this boon. If not, McJ has been empowered to brush 'em up and submit 'em by deadline. TM
TelinArtho 01-25-07, 04:51 PM	The edit/rerun of Zax & Durin vs Maelosh & Sybil is done. As expected, no game-altering changes. Zevox Thanks Zev for the clean-up.
Eluria 01-25-07, 05:01 PM	@ Usernamer - thanks for running the fight; sorry for any issues. Quick question re: "Automatic skill packages" and the diplomacy/knowledge: nobility bonus to XP... is that calculation done by the Pitlord when he posts the rewards, or is that something we take care of when we update the character sheet?
Erithmu 01-25-07, 05:07 PM	@ Usernamer - thanks for running the fight; sorry for any issues. Quick question re: "Automatic skill packages" and the diplomacy/knowledge: nobility bonus to XP... is that calculation done by the Pitlord when he posts the rewards, or is that something we take care of when we update the character sheet? It should be done by the pitlord, you might send him a PM if he doesn't respond to seeing it here.
Eluria 01-25-07, 05:11 PM	It should be done by the pitlord, you might send him a PM if he doesn't respond to seeing it here. Ok, thanks for the quick answer :)
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 06:00 PM	@Zevox: I found a problem with your tactics, and I need a correction before I can proceed. Please respond to my PM ASAP.
MitzaVolchenko 01-25-07, 07:18 PM	The edit/rerun of Zax & Durin vs Maelosh & Sybil is done. As expected, no game-altering changes. Zevox Thanks for re-running.
hogarth 01-25-07, 10:00 PM	@Erithmu: Tactics sent for Treetall Oakleg
Maraxus 01-25-07, 10:17 PM	@Zevox: I found a problem with your tactics, and I need a correction before I can proceed. Please respond to my PM ASAP. Ah, I was allready waiting to read the details of my miserable failure. :rolleyes:
Erithmu 01-25-07, 11:41 PM	@Erithmu: Tactics sent for Treetall OaklegClarification request sent.
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 11:42 PM	Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs Zassl (Maraxus) [ECL9, Plains] (Setup) (Fight) is done.
Vathelokai 01-25-07, 11:46 PM	@Zevox: Team tactics sent. Besthirah[ECL9] (MindWandererB) vs. Jar-red (TelinArtho) & Hassan (Vathelokai) : Zevox [Temple] [Inter-League]
Zevox 01-26-07, 12:12 AM	Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs Zassl (Maraxus) [ECL9, Plains] (Setup) (Fight) is done. Looks good to me, though I'm not sure about Zassl getting to break LoS like that (those hedges are "low cover", theres no indication as to their size, so its hard to say if they would ever break LoS - and certainly I'd think once I'm in the air I could at least partially see over it, invoking spot vs hide checks). Not fight-affecting though. Guess I was lucky my dispel got rid of that shield spell, else that could've gone a lot longer than it did and cost Eraca a lot of arrows. But anyway, again, thanks for running it :) . Now, to figure out what I could craft in two weeks with all that gold... (that +25% made this win nearly double my cash :D ) @Zevox: Team tactics sent. Besthirah[ECL9] (MindWandererB) vs. Jar-red (TelinArtho) & Hassan (Vathelokai) : Zevox [Temple] [Inter-League] Recieved. I plan on running that tomorrow. Zevox
MindWandererB 01-26-07, 01:18 AM	Looks good to me, though I'm not sure about Zassl getting to break LoS like that (those hedges are "low cover", theres no indication as to their size, so its hard to say if they would ever break LoS - and certainly I'd think once I'm in the air I could at least partially see over it, invoking spot vs hide checks). Not fight-affecting though. Guess I was lucky my dispel got rid of that shield spell, else that could've gone a lot longer than it did and cost Eraca a lot of arrows.Yeah, I wasn't 100% sure about that. I ended up figuring that a prone kobold trying to squeeze himself up against the hedge was close enough to total cover as to make no difference. And in any event, he definitely could get improved cover, which would improve his Reflex saves, and Eraca was in no hurry at that point. And yeah, I'm also glad that Shield wasn't one of the spells that Maraxus wanted to renew, although it probably would have been cheaper for Eraca in the long run if it was.
Always-Late 01-26-07, 01:38 AM	Yeah - now that I see what is going on it looks like you two will be out of luck this week. Sorry about the confusion - I just assumed the two of you were ECL3.Oy, they* say that a battle can be run if the ECL is one off by giving the lower ECL guy a surprise round. I'm not familiar with policy, but I'm game if you and Orsonos both are (even though a surprise round is really useless for me.) I'll probably end up PMing announcement + tactics as soon as I recieve confmirmation from both /(if it's forthcoming at all,) not to make it sound like you're obligated or anything, just wondering if it can go anywhere. * Vathelokai
Zevox 01-26-07, 02:07 AM	And yeah, I'm also glad that Shield wasn't one of the spells that Maraxus wanted to renew, although it probably would have been cheaper for Eraca in the long run if it was. *shrugs* Eraca has that wand so she can use it. I'm not concerned about a meager 6 charges, considering this is only the second time shes used it since making it last level, and she got it for less than most folks get a CL 3 version :) . Zevox
UserNamer 01-26-07, 03:59 AM	@UserNamer: It was a scroll of Shield, not Mage Armor. Gell does get one attack attempt at the end, if he survives the AoO for standing, but it wouldn't help. @TwoPi: You can't power attack with a light weapon, and mindblades are considered short swords, which are light. done
Maraxus 01-26-07, 07:11 AM	Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs Zassl (Maraxus) [ECL9, Plains] (Setup) (Fight) is done. Well, stupid me not saying, I'll renew the shield when getting slowly killed by magic missles... at least I could have costed him round about 3 dispel magic charges per Level 1 slot. ;) Well, that aside, it looks like my opponent won fair and honorable. Items Used: Scroll of Fly [CL 5], Scroll of Resist Energy [CL 2], Scroll of Delay Poison [CL 2], 1 charge of Dispel Magic wand [CL 5], 6 charges of Magic Missile wand [CL 5] Spells or Powerpoints Used: Shield, Alter Self, Arcane Sight, lightning bolt x2. ...you can't argue with that. :rolleyes: About pitlord comments: Hey, I'm no melee character, I don't have problems with flight. ... Just flight + Shield + more then 50 ft altitude (and the acid resisence did not help, too ;) ). Sorry, that I forgot the 3FC info. Won't happen again ... I hope. Mage armor was fresh (last week I still used it from scroll) but I considered that in the "current spells available" section.
Zevox 01-26-07, 07:47 AM	Well, stupid me not saying, I'll renew the shield when getting slowly killed by magic missles... at least I could have costed him round about 3 dispel magic charges per Level 1 slot. ;) Actually, had the shield not been dispelled or been restored, my tactics were to switch to rapid-shooting. Well, that aside, it looks like my opponent won fair and honorable. Items Used: Scroll of Fly [CL 5], Scroll of Resist Energy [CL 2], Scroll of Delay Poison [CL 2], 1 charge of Dispel Magic wand [CL 5], 6 charges of Magic Missile wand [CL 5] Spells or Powerpoints Used: Shield, Alter Self, Arcane Sight, lightning bolt x2. ...you can't argue with that. :rolleyes: Considering all of those scrolls and wands were self-scribed, and since I was in fight 3 and had no reason to conserve memorized spells, 'twas a fairly cheap win, actually. Just 574 gp 5 sp, and most of that was in the MM wand charges and fly scroll. Plus I won over ten times that thanks to your ally, so 'tis more than worth it. :) Zevox
hogarth 01-26-07, 08:26 AM	Clarification request sent. Some clarifications sent back.
TelinArtho 01-26-07, 12:13 PM	BTW, Jar-Red's talon damage seems high--should be 1d8 base, not 2d6. <snip> Fortunately, he needs a 20 to hit me, and only his talons can beat my DR unless on a crit. Just wanted to address these two. The talon damage is something I missed in the errata apparently. I will add it in after the fight. Thanks for noting it. As to DR - I was under the impression that if you have Silver/Cold Iron DR your natural weapons have the same property. I'm fairly certain this was the case in 3.0 - but I have not been able to find the same text in 3.5. Am I wrong?
TelinArtho 01-26-07, 12:15 PM	Oy, they* say that a battle can be run if the ECL is one off by giving the lower ECL guy a surprise round. I'm not familiar with policy, but I'm game if you and Orsonos both are (even though a surprise round is really useless for me.) I'll probably end up PMing announcement + tactics as soon as I recieve confmirmation from both /(if it's forthcoming at all,) not to make it sound like you're obligated or anything, just wondering if it can go anywhere. * Vathelokai Well there's two things here. First of all the ECL3 guys have greater restrictions on what things they can face - and an ECL4 guy with a surprise round for yourself isn't one of them. More importantly though (and this is the real issue), my time for running fights this week was cut short - so I no longer have the time to run a third fight as I originally had thought.
Abyssal Stalker 01-26-07, 12:17 PM	Just wanted to address these two. The talon damage is something I missed in the errata apparently. I will add it in after the fight. Thanks for noting it. As to DR - I was under the impression that if you have Silver/Cold Iron DR your natural weapons have the same property. I'm fairly certain this was the case in 3.0 - but I have not been able to find the same text in 3.5. Am I wrong? Actually, you are probably only partially correct. Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage. Some monsters are vulnerable to certain materials, such as alchemical silver, adamantine, or cold iron. Attacks from weapons that are not made of the correct material have their damage reduced, even if the weapon has an enhancement bonus. Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Some monsters are vulnerable to chaotic-, evil-, good-, or lawful-aligned weapons. When a cleric casts align weapon, affected weapons might gain one or more of these properties, and certain magic weapons have these properties as well. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that match the subtype(s) of the creature. Looks like only cretures with DR/magic, DR/epic or DR/alignment fall under the category you have described.
TelinArtho 01-26-07, 12:32 PM	Well - I guess I should've found that beforehand... oh well. Hopefully things will work out in the end. Of course if I had known this, my tactics would have been : "Get into a grapple, move the grapple into the lava..." ...
Macbrea 01-26-07, 01:17 PM	That would not have helped. The lava does energy fire damge and Damage reduction doesn't help at all verses energy damage.
TelinArtho 01-26-07, 01:19 PM	That would not have helped. The lava does energy fire damge and Damage reduction doesn't help at all verses energy damage. It would've helped immensely actually. Assuming Hassan wasn't down yet, Besthirah and Jar-red would die immediately upon entering the lava and we would've won the fight... cheap tactic to be sure - but it was definitely on my mind...
Macbrea 01-26-07, 01:45 PM	Ah, I always forget about team fights. And you probably wouldn't have died outright. It is only 20d6 damage. So, about 70.. :P I ran a group of Jinn vs Tatyannia. They used a similar strategy. They each have plane shift. By charging in and touching their opponent they can planeshift themselves and their opponent to another plane. Leaving their ally to win.
TelinArtho 01-26-07, 02:07 PM	Maya Redwine (MindWandererB) vs Wildfire (NiQil) is up. Went pretty much as expected - though it could've been mighty interesting...
MindWandererB 01-26-07, 03:15 PM	Maya Redwine (MindWandererB) vs Wildfire (NiQil) is up. Went pretty much as expected - though it could've been mighty interesting...In case other edits are needed, and for future reference, dorje use does not provoke AoOs. Would only speed things up by a round. Oh, and her second PP was Force Screen, not Vigor, not that it matters. And thanks go to NiQil for graciously accepting the fight despite my mistake. I really have to say... horses are pretty grossly unfair. They're just as powerful as a PC, in many cases. Heck, a druid's animal companion, which is a bloody class feature (and therefore [/i]should[/i] be powerful), is weaker than a warhorse until class level 4.* I've come to the realization that all ECL 3-4 PCs should have warhorses, period. The only reason I ended up not getting one for Gakhnalak was because he's too darn heavy to ride one, although it would be a bit redundant in his case anyway. * Or 8 for a ranger! Think about that one--aside from the XP penalty, a level 7 ranger is far better off with a relatively cheap, customized warhorse than with his class feature animal companion. That's just wrong. Just wanted to address these two. The talon damage is something I missed in the errata apparently. I will add it in after the fight. Thanks for noting it. As to DR - I was under the impression that if you have Silver/Cold Iron DR your natural weapons have the same property. I'm fairly certain this was the case in 3.0 - but I have not been able to find the same text in 3.5. Am I wrong?That was indeed the rule in 3.0, when there was no material-based DR (except for DR X/silver, which was considered inferior to, and also bypassed by, DR X/+1). Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't.
TelinArtho 01-26-07, 03:21 PM	In case other edits are needed, and for future reference, dorje use does not provoke AoOs. Would only speed things up by a round. That was indeed the rule in 3.0, when there was no material-based DR (except for DR X/silver, which was considered inferior to, and also bypassed by, DR X/+1). Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. I know it doesn't provoke AoO - I think I was thinking she was making a ranged attack while in melee - so that would provoke. Thinking back on it - I realize I made an error though. If an edit does come up - I'll make sure to include that in.
Zevox 01-26-07, 03:27 PM	Besthira vs Hassan & Jar-red is done. And I'm tired. What I wouldn't give to get a simple 1-on-1 one of these weeks now that I'm down to 1 fight per week... Zevox
TelinArtho 01-26-07, 04:09 PM	The only comment I have is that Mugwump should've been trying to stay in the grapple when possible - even after Hassan is dead. Mugwumps overall priority is to help Jar by grappling and/or flanking Besthira; priority on the grappling. With mugwumps in a grapple - whether he's trying to move it or not means that Besthirah is denied her dex bonus. Of course, I'm not sure that mugwumps was able to be in a grapple at any one moment when Besthirah is not in a grapple with Jar-red - but that's the way it should've been.
Zevox 01-26-07, 04:13 PM	The only comment I have is that Mugwump should've been trying to stay in the grapple when possible - even after Hassan is dead. With mugwumps in a grapple - whether he's trying to move it or not means that Besthirah is denied her dex bonus. Of course, I'm not sure that mugwumps was able to be in a grapple at any one moment when Besthirah is not in a grapple with Jar-red - but that's the way it should've been. He could've entered the grapple while you two were grappling instead of going for crits, but then he'd be doing nothing for you until you managed to escape - and even then wouldn't likely do anything, given that Besthira's grapple mod beats his so easily she could escape right after you. Zevox
TelinArtho 01-26-07, 04:20 PM	Well yes and no - if she's forced to use actions to escape a grapple from mugwump - she's not attacking Jar-red. That said, there's a comment in the fight that I wanted to clear up - confirming a threat can be done on a second natural 20. For instance in round 4 (Jar-red) and in rounds 19-20 (Mugwump) - you state that the critical is impossible - but there's still a chance. I would appreciate it if you could edit in that Mugwump should have been grappling and to make the rolls that are apparently missing for the confirms.
Sjiggie 01-26-07, 04:24 PM	@ rauul PM sent on your tactics please send your answers asap. @nightbanegod I still haven't recieved your tactics if I don't have them bye tommorow evening (GMT) you will be run by default or lose the match.
Zevox 01-26-07, 04:29 PM	That said, there's a comment in the fight that I wanted to clear up - confirming a threat can be done on a second natural 20. For instance in round 4 (Jar-red) and in rounds 19-20 (Mugwump) - you state that the critical is impossible - but there's still a chance. Pardon me, but have I been mistaken then in believing that a natural 20 on a confirm roll is not an auto-confirm? I seem to remember that being the case. Or perhaps I'm thinking of critical threats that aren't 20s not auto-hitting... I would appreciate it if you could edit in that Mugwump should have been grappling and to make the rolls that are apparently missing for the confirms. *sigh* So it shall be, then. Not immediately though - I need a break. Zevox
TelinArtho 01-26-07, 04:34 PM	The critical roll is just another attack roll - so a natural 20 is still an auto-hit. And yes, if the threat range is greater than 20, a 19 is not an auto-hit nor is a 19 an auto-crit.
Zevox 01-26-07, 07:14 PM	@ Telin - Taken care of. Only change was that Besthira took 2 less damage (from lack of confirmed crits from Mugwump). She easily escaped him when Jar-red escaped her grapple, so she still caught and finished him at the same time. Zevox
NiQil 01-26-07, 10:33 PM	In case other edits are needed, and for future reference, dorje use does not provoke AoOs. Would only speed things up by a round. Oh, and her second PP was Force Screen, not Vigor, not that it matters. And thanks go to NiQil for graciously accepting the fight despite my mistake. I really have to say... horses are pretty grossly unfair. They're just as powerful as a PC, in many cases. Heck, a druid's animal companion, which is a bloody class feature (and therefore [/i]should[/i] be powerful), is weaker than a warhorse until class level 4.* I've come to the realization that all ECL 3-4 PCs should have warhorses, period. The only reason I ended up not getting one for Gakhnalak was because he's too darn heavy to ride one, although it would be a bit redundant in his case anyway. * Or 8 for a ranger! Think about that one--aside from the XP penalty, a level 7 ranger is far better off with a relatively cheap, customized warhorse than with his class feature animal companion. That's just wrong. That was indeed the rule in 3.0, when there was no material-based DR (except for DR X/silver, which was considered inferior to, and also bypassed by, DR X/+1). Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. I actually do have an issue that I feel should be addressed. In round 4, Wildfire bases Maya and attempts to sunder a dorje. In the same round, you have Maya fire that dorje with psionic shot. However, this is expressly against the tactics MWB wrote. Let me quote the relevant passages: Start off mounted and lined up with the two passages, with stone of Biofeedback and dorje of Vigor in hand. 1) Manifest Offensive Precognition. 2) Use Biofeedback, draw dorje of Crystal Shard. 3) Use Vigor and move out. 4+) Ready to use Crystal Shard with Psionic Shot when I have a clear shot (no cover), and move. Ranged: Manifest Force Screen, then just use the Crystal Shard dorje. If he's using guerilla tactics, ready to shoot him on sight. He might try to sunder (or disarm, or whatever) the dorje, or even attack Calabash. In that case, I'll go even-steven: sunder his sling with my greatsword. If he's doing a darn good job of playing keep-away, use the stone of Entangling Ectoplasm on him, multiple times if necessary to get to his sling. If he's really lucky, and nails both my horse and my dorje, I can try using both the Ectoplasm and Deceleration to move him down to a snail's pace, but that would be an act of desparation. In any event, he'll be forced to move to grappling or melee at that point, so go on to the next set of tactics. Grappling/melee: I won't know which of these he's trying until he actually makes the first attack, so I'll have to be responsive. If he tries to grapple me (successfully or not), use Grease on my armor (expend focus on the Concentration check, if I still have it), which should allow me to escape the grapple. Attempt to fast-mount, drop Crystal Shard dorje, draw lance, and attack. If I fail the fast-mount, use the dorje of Crystal Shard to hurt him until I have the move action to spare on drawing the lance. If he uses his axe to deal damage to me instead, manifest Force Screen and counter with my greatsword. Since this took place in round 4, Maya did not have a chance to ready her dorje shot (as the first bolded line calls for), and since I had already based her, you should have been applying the melee tactics listed above, rather than using the dorje as you did. I would appreciate it if things could be edited from that point forward, since, in my eyes, that dorje shot should not have happened since this was clearly not a ranged attack scenerio that would have applied to the scenerio calling for using the dorje. Even if you don't apply the melee tactics listed above, the ranged tactics call for the sundering of my sling if I sunder a dorje, not to fire the dorje (as per the second bolded line). So either way, that dorje shot should not have happened. Everything else appears to be ok, and it may not make much of a difference, but as I said in my tactics...with a waraxe, all it takes is one critical strike to make a difference.
Vathelokai 01-26-07, 11:42 PM	@ Telin - Taken care of. Only change was that Besthira took 2 less damage (from lack of confirmed crits from Mugwump). She easily escaped him when Jar-red escaped her grapple, so she still caught and finished him at the same time. Zevox Thanks for the time and trouble. I had no idea that Jar couldn't beat silver damage reduction, but after reading the DR section of the SRD a couple times, turns out he can't. And that damage roll.... oh well.
TheMagister 01-27-07, 01:24 AM	Balrog vs. Izumi is finished and posted here.
MindWandererB 01-27-07, 04:22 AM	I actually do have an issue that I feel should be addressed. In round 4, Wildfire bases Maya and attempts to sunder a dorje. In the same round, you have Maya fire that dorje with psionic shot. However, this is expressly against the tactics MWB wrote. Let me quote the relevant passages: Since this took place in round 4, Maya did not have a chance to ready her dorje shot (as the first bolded line calls for), and since I had already based her, you should have been applying the melee tactics listed above, rather than using the dorje as you did. I would appreciate it if things could be edited from that point forward, since, in my eyes, that dorje shot should not have happened since this was clearly not a ranged attack scenerio that would have applied to the scenerio calling for using the dorje. Even if you don't apply the melee tactics listed above, the ranged tactics call for the sundering of my sling if I sunder a dorje, not to fire the dorje (as per the second bolded line). So either way, that dorje shot should not have happened. Everything else appears to be ok, and it may not make much of a difference, but as I said in my tactics...with a waraxe, all it takes is one critical strike to make a difference. It's a matter of interpretation, I think. What Telin inferred, and what I intended, was to follow through with the dorje shot, and only then react to Wildfire's actions. (You skipped the line where I state this in your quote.) I also could not sunder the sling even if I wanted to, because it's a small, holstered item. However, I have no strong feelings about this, and if Telin agrees with you, I have no further argument.
Caterane 01-27-07, 08:00 AM	What's the deal with Iced's miniquest? We don't have to go into week 4 do we?
TelinArtho 01-27-07, 01:00 PM	@ Telin - Taken care of. Only change was that Besthira took 2 less damage (from lack of confirmed crits from Mugwump). She easily escaped him when Jar-red escaped her grapple, so she still caught and finished him at the same time. Zevox Thanks for taking the extra time - I very much appreciate it. ---------- Sorry NiQil, I have looked over his tactics and this is what I see: Manifest Offensive Precognition. 2) Use Biofeedback, draw dorje of Crystal Shard. 3) Use Vigor and move out. 4+) Ready to use Crystal Shard with Psionic Shot when I have a clear shot (no cover), and move. Once #4 has passed, it should be clear whether he's trying to move in to grapple/melee me, or stay at range and use his sling. That's a pretty clear line of order of operations. Now, looking at Maya's contingencies: Contingencies/reminders: ·Calabash has the Defend trick. He'll try to attack Wildfire without my direction as soon as he or I have been attacked once. ·Use Vigor dorje whenever it runs out, or has 1-2 HP remaining on the power. Do this in a grapple, as well. Most likely Wildfire will attempt to sunder or disarm the dorje; if so, oh well. ·Use Ride for cover, of course. ·If Wildfire is trying to keep his distance, try to "herd" him into the center area, where there's no walkway. Much easier to catch up with him there. However, don't wait there for him, since it's wide open and he can shoot from much further away. ·I can't think of any reason why I'd want to cut through the grating, but it's an option. I should make short work of them with my greatsword. ·If he kills Calabash and then grapples me, use Grease to escape as above, then draw and use a power stone of Expansion. Continue to escape his grapples as necessary, and hit him with my sword. ·If for some reason there's a lull in the battle, use it to regain focus, or to renew any expired powers. I don't see anything in here to indicate the beginning instructions should be interrupted. Clearly, to me, Maya wanted to fire off one shot of the Crystal Shard with the psionic shot. If it makes you feel better, she readies, and since you are already there - she takes the action immediately. Bear in mind, I did screw up - you shouldn't have gotten an AoO there - so the sundered dorje (which was vigor - not the crystal shard dorje), wouldn't have actually happened.
NiQil 01-27-07, 01:35 PM	No...yer right...as MWB pointed out, I missed the line after step 4 in his tactics that says to use the dorje and then determine what tactic Wildfire is using. So no need to change anything. I knew it was a longshot going in. Getting awfully tired of trudging through the lower ECL's fighting nothing but light warhorses (or at least that's how it feels)....
TheMagister 01-27-07, 08:47 PM	Blizzard vs. Zerth Cenobite is up here. Ah, the dice. :nonono: TM
NiQil 01-27-07, 09:15 PM	Blizzard vs. Zerth Cenobite is up here. Ah, the dice. :nonono: TM One thing that I can see right away that needs to be fixed: Once I have successfully started a grapple, in the following round, rage for the additional bonuses it will give me to damage and my grapple check. I believe this should have been used starting in round 8. Haven't looked at the rolls, so I don't know what this does to things...just saw that it wasn't done.
TheMagister 01-27-07, 09:38 PM	You're right. I'll go check. r7: +2 dmg. r8: +2 dmg. r9: +2 dmg. r10: no r11: no r12: +2 dmg. and Zerth escapes 15 to 14. r13: failed 18 to 25 r14: failed 15 to 26. r15: failed 16 to 23. r16: miss touch attack 10 vs. AC 12. +8 damage via grapples, otherwise no change. TM
Sjiggie 01-28-07, 07:39 AM	Just some minor points one you already mentioned is that you missed the use of offensive precognition but the second is that you didn't use psionic weapon as mentioned in my tactics. It doens't need any editting since I won already :). Thanks for the run.
MitzaVolchenko 01-28-07, 10:06 AM	What's the deal with Iced's miniquest? We don't have to go into week 4 do we? I requested some input and got nothing. I will settle a storyline, and post it tonight, then wait for tactics or improvise for him. I know Solan pretty well at this point :P However, it should be noted that if I truly get nothing from him for tactics it is equivalent to a fight with none sent-none posted.
Abyssal Stalker 01-28-07, 01:10 PM	Toron surrenders. Sorry Iced, but I can't wait longer. I PM'd you and got no response.
Maraxus 01-28-07, 01:23 PM	Toron surrenders. Sorry Iced, but I can't wait longer. I PM'd you and got no response. That's probably what you get for writing "Tactics will always be sent" and not "Never surrender."
SauroGrenom 01-28-07, 05:53 PM	Do targeted spells don't suffer miss chance due to concealment or effects like mirror image? I'm thinking they do not miss, but I'm not 100% sure. Could I get someone to confirm that.
Maraxus 01-28-07, 05:55 PM	I've allways handled it that way that only those spells that require an attack roll suffer from concealment miss chance and I'm 99% sure that's how it is supposed to be done.
SauroGrenom 01-28-07, 05:59 PM	I've allways handled it that way that only those spells that require an attack roll suffer from concealment miss chance and I'm 99% sure that's how it is supposed to be done. I just had a moment of doubt, thanks for the confirmation.
MindWandererB 01-28-07, 06:23 PM	I just had a moment of doubt, thanks for the confirmation. Just to clarify: touch and ray-type spells (that use attack rolls) suffer miss chances. Other targeted spells do not.
Zevox 01-28-07, 06:23 PM	Do targeted spells don't suffer miss chance due to concealment or effects like mirror image? I'm thinking they do not miss, but I'm not 100% sure. Could I get someone to confirm that. As Maraxus said, ones requiring attack rolls are affected by either. Targeted ones that don't still have to pick between Mirror Images too though, which is worth noting. Zevox
SauroGrenom 01-28-07, 07:16 PM	Loddick vs Denshi
Sjiggie 01-28-07, 09:25 PM	Gorgox vs Graashnak is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11318308&postcount=514) Nightbanegod is asked you twice to submit your tactics I don't have the time for it anymore to run it. Next time make sure you send your tactics before the deadline.
TheMagister 01-29-07, 12:49 AM	Sabra Marana vs. Daniel Ocean is up here. Yucky. TM
Etiquette_Gnome 01-29-07, 01:28 AM	Thanks for running the fight. I think I'll have to reword my Aversion next time, probably something like 'grappling' or 'magic missile'. I will have to state that Center did not die from the Share Pain. The first coup de grace would've done some damage, not enough to outright kill either of us. Sabra would've just died from the Fortitude save to resist death from the coup de grace, which just makes me dead, not actually deal damage to be transferred over Share Pain. Also, did you include my +22% XP/GP bonus from his diplomatic stuff?
Erithmu 01-29-07, 01:34 AM	Loddick vs Denshi You forgot Denshi's lucky MI roll too .... BTW I just added the 'cut here' thing this week. Minor issue is that I do spend those last 7 pp due to the failed conc check. Second loss due to a web scroll .....
TheMagister 01-29-07, 01:37 AM	Thanks for running the fight. I think I'll have to reword my Aversion next time, probably something like 'grappling' or 'magic missile'. I will have to state that Center did not die from the Share Pain. The first coup de grace would've done some damage, not enough to outright kill either of us. Sabra would've just died from the Fortitude save to resist death from the coup de grace, which just makes me dead, not actually deal damage to be transferred over Share Pain. I'll make some rolls to see. Also, did you include my +22% XP/GP bonus from his diplomatic stuff? Nope. Didn't include your craft stuff either. I'll get it done tonight or tomorrow.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-29-07, 01:41 AM	Oh, forgot to include something else, I did spend the 3pp for that Aversion; so my total PP used should be 10 for that fight.
TheMagister 01-29-07, 01:42 AM	Copy that.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-29-07, 01:52 AM	Heh, side note; I just noticed that Usernamer spent about 475gp in expendables to defeat me, while I spent 10pp. I know this does nothing for me, but it's a tiny little victory I'm striving to hold onto to keep me from crying myself to sleep ;) I've been trying to use the tactic of Control Flame and surviving long enough for it to work, but certain other flaws are cropping up to keep me from even trying.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-29-07, 01:57 AM	*sigh* I'd hate to point this out, but Usernamer sent you altered tactics. Kaigan posted our respective tactics last week on the board when he stated he wasn't able to run our fight. He apparently sent you a set of tactics that were changed from the original ones he sent. Were we actually allowed to alter our tactics with that kind of knowledge? I assumed we weren't, which is why I just sent you a verbatim copy of my original ones.
MindWandererB 01-29-07, 02:03 AM	*sigh* I'd hate to point this out, but Usernamer sent you altered tactics. Kaigan posted our respective tactics last week on the board when he stated he wasn't able to run our fight. He apparently sent you a set of tactics that were changed from the original ones he sent. Were we actually allowed to alter our tactics with that kind of knowledge? I assumed we weren't, which is why I just sent you a verbatim copy of my original ones. No, actually. Once the tactics were posted, neither of you should have PMed anything. That could be a problem.
TheMagister 01-29-07, 02:04 AM	I looked and couldn't find where anyone posted them. Usernamer said that Kaigan didn't post them. If he lied to me and sent me altered tactics, I'll declare an auto-loss. Send me a link to the previous post, and I'll check it out. TM
MindWandererB 01-29-07, 02:09 AM	They would be here. And unfortunately, they're not even remotely similar.
TheMagister 01-29-07, 02:17 AM	That little stinker. And after I wasted my time. @^~#$*%!!! I'll fix it tomorrow. E_G, you can edit your sheet with winning awards. Usernamer, you just lost major cool points.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-29-07, 02:55 AM	I'm beginning to notice a scary pattern with this character. This is his third consecutive auto-win now. I'm afraid I'll get the [Great Renown] tag without ever having to really enter the ring.
Maraxus 01-29-07, 12:46 PM	Hey, lat's say, one character has X life, then he takes some damage D and then get's temporary hitpoints T, where T >= D. Can the old damage be healed even through his current hit points are >= his maximum hit points? Would be nice to know, but does not really matter for the fight. ;)
Abyssal Stalker 01-29-07, 01:34 PM	Toron vs Anakala has been run, despite of what I informed earlier. For the record, Iced sent me tactics late due to some personal reasons and asked if I could still run the fight instead of the surrender. I asked Telin if this was OK and sent him Iced's tactics (because Iced could have seen Telin's tactics and written his own according to those). Telin responded that it was OK to run the fight. Here you can see what happened.
MitzaVolchenko 01-29-07, 01:50 PM	Toron vs Anakala has been run, despite of what I informed earlier. For the record, Iced sent me tactics late due to some personal reasons and asked if I could still run the fight instead of the surrender. I asked Telin if this was OK and sent him Iced's tactics (because Iced could have seen Telin's tactics and written his own according to those). Telin responded that it was OK to run the fight. Here you can see what happened. Toron wins and gains 1751 xp and 1867 gp Toron loses and gains 417 xp and 444 gp (16.7% penalty) ????
Abyssal Stalker 01-29-07, 01:56 PM	Oops. Edited.
MindWandererB 01-29-07, 02:05 PM	Hey, lat's say, one character has X life, then he takes some damage D and then get's temporary hitpoints T, where T >= D. Can the old damage be healed even through his current hit points are >= his maximum hit points? Would be nice to know, but does not really matter for the fight. ;)Yes. Your "real" hit points can be cured up to your normal maximum, no matter how many temporary HP you have.
TelinArtho 01-29-07, 03:02 PM	Toron vs Anakala has been run, despite of what I informed earlier. For the record, Iced sent me tactics late due to some personal reasons and asked if I could still run the fight instead of the surrender. I asked Telin if this was OK and sent him Iced's tactics (because Iced could have seen Telin's tactics and written his own according to those). Telin responded that it was OK to run the fight. Here you can see what happened. Only 2 errors that I see - and that's the miss in round 12. Toron's force screen fades after his initiative count, meaning Ana's attack at 25 hits his 22 AC (as opposed to missing the 26 AC). Still, that 9 extra damage isn't enough to sway things in my favor. The other error is a missing fortitude save versus the IMW touch for half damage. Since that would also help Toron, no need to edit it - but just note it for the future. Thanks for the run.
Maraxus 01-29-07, 03:54 PM	How high is undergrowth in the forest? Or in other words, which of the following would have cover: - A medium sized creature flying at 0ft altitude. - A large creature standing on the ground - A medium sized creature flying at 5 ft altitude / 10 ft altitude.
hogarth 01-29-07, 03:57 PM	How high is undergrowth in the forest? Or in other words, which of the following would have cover: - A medium sized creature flying at 0ft altitude. - A large creature standing on the ground - A medium sized creature flying at 5 ft altitude / 10 ft altitude. The first two, I think, although the large creature might only have 10-15% concealment. By the way, undergrowth provides concealment, not cover.
MindWandererB 01-29-07, 04:01 PM	Actually, I'm not sure. Rereading the SRD description, it seems like the undergrowth includes vines, low-hanging branches, and the like, not just roots and bushes. There is no mention of size, unlike for water hazards. I think it applies to creatures of any size. ... which, if supported, would cause me to reverse my opinion regarding elocators. If the undergrowth extends to the canopy in some form or another, then scorn earth wouldn't help at all.
hogarth 01-29-07, 04:15 PM	... which, if supported, would cause me to reverse my opinion regarding elocators. If the undergrowth extends to the canopy in some form or another, then scorn earth wouldn't help at all. If only there were some way to know whether squares above the ground had something that impeded movement... Impeeded (sic) Flight: Since the forest is so dense, all flight on this map is impeeded (sic), which is to say, any square of movement counts as two squares of movement while flying.
MindWandererB 01-29-07, 04:18 PM	If only there were some way to know whether squares above the ground had something that impeded movement... A fair enough precedent, although it comes from an incorrect notion (Cat refuses to believe that high-speed flight is possible in a dense forest unless you're a Jedi). Although it was based on some idea of reaction time, it can be used to extrapolate to the undergrowth. Although do note that the "air space" is not defined as granting concealment as written.
Maraxus 01-29-07, 04:49 PM	If it was based on some idea of reaction time, it would aplie to ground movers, too. Your reaction does not suddenly drop, when you raise. :) Andflaing with perfect maneuverbility is not much diffrent then walking ... just more 3-dimensional. As for the concealment (right, I meant that, not cover, hmm typo ;) ): Okay, first I wanted it apply it only to the lowest 5 ft (therefor medium sized and smaller creatures standing or flying at 0 ft altitude). But I think I better apply it to every heigth, I could be closer to RAW there. - Hey it does not say, that they don't benefit from the concealment, either. ;)
TelinArtho 01-29-07, 05:30 PM	Wow, complicated situation I've got here: Target is Entangled in a web and Blinded. Dex is 22 and gains +5 armor to AC for a total of 21 AC normally. He has also declared a dodge target (before he got blinded) - so AC starts at 22. Target also has Uncanny Dodge. Attacker is attacking in melee. What is the target's AC? Entangle condition states a -4 Dex penalty. Blindness species the target suffers a -2 to AC and loses his dex bonus.
SauroGrenom 01-29-07, 05:34 PM	Target's AC is 13. You loose dodge bonuses when denied all dex bonus.
TelinArtho 01-29-07, 05:57 PM	But you don't lose the dex bonus when being attacked by an invisible attacker in melee and have Uncanny Dodge...
Maraxus 01-29-07, 06:08 PM	The Battlesong Duet vs. some Monsters is ready. Finally. 6 Pins. Forrest Map. ... Well, at least no coward-tactic triggered. ;)
Vathelokai 01-29-07, 06:21 PM	You forgot Denshi's lucky MI roll too .... BTW I just added the 'cut here' thing this week. Minor issue is that I do spend those last 7 pp due to the failed conc check. Second loss due to a web scroll ..... How dare Loddick defeat Denshi's loosing streak! :) Actually, I looked over Loddicks past fights to find some kind of strategy and saw the web/MM loss from Zassle. It looked like the only thing that had really beat Loddick that wasn't the dice gods fault, so I tried it. Carrying some tindertwings or a torch can fix that.
TelinArtho 01-29-07, 06:26 PM	Auburn (Vathelokai) vs Featylec Elendi (Zevox) is up. Real bad rolls decided this one - but even had one been successful, I think the other would have screwed it anyway...
Vathelokai 01-29-07, 06:30 PM	Wow, complicated situation I've got here: Target is Entangled in a web and Blinded. Dex is 22 and gains +5 armor to AC for a total of 21 AC normally. He has also declared a dodge target (before he got blinded) - so AC starts at 22. Target also has Uncanny Dodge. Attacker is attacking in melee. What is the target's AC? Entangle condition states a -4 Dex penalty. Blindness species the target suffers a -2 to AC and loses his dex bonus. Entangled Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. Blind The character cannot see. He takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character. Uncanny dodge She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. Dodge A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses. Wow. It worked (kinda). Thinking this through before I come to a decision on how it really works...
TheMagister 01-29-07, 06:35 PM	Thought I should post this publicly. If this is true, then I owe Usernamer an apology for impugning his honor. Sorry I called you a stinker, UN. You still autolose, though. Hi Magister, I just wanted to let you know that I really had no idea that Kaigan posted our tactics. Then when you asked me to send you tactics, I had to write new ones becouse I hadn't saved my old. So I started writing the same tactics as I had before. But then, I saw that my opponent had Vigor, witch would totally screw up my plan to kill him in 1 shot. So, I thought, why not write new tactics. I'm not asking to change anything or so, i juse want to make it clear what REALLY happened. I don't think you believe this, but at least I can say that I tried to explain what happened. Usernamer
TheMagister 01-29-07, 07:02 PM	The Battlesong Duet vs. some Monsters is ready. Finally. 6 Pins. Forrest Map. ... Well, at least no coward-tactic triggered. ;) Well, that didn't go exactly as I'd hoped. Using the whirlwind and etherealness abilities to get around the AoOs was clever! Still, it wasn't quite as close as it looked: Tessero had an extra 4 hp from the Rage spell (which provides +2 str/+2 con/+1 will). Good spell! And it STACKS with bull's strength/bear's endurance (Rage is a morale bonus to stats). Equalizer has proven his worth so many times! I'm tempted to get Cupid her own light warhorse, because allies love them bards. Or do bards love them allies? ... Maybe I shouldn't. Not because it wouldn't make SENSE, but because the pitlords would hate me. :weep: TM
hogarth 01-29-07, 07:23 PM	The Battlesong Duet vs. some Monsters is ready. Finally. 6 Pins. Forrest Map. ... Well, at least no coward-tactic triggered. ;) Note that Elementals are immune to critical hits. I don't know if that affects the fight, though.
TheMagister 01-29-07, 08:46 PM	Ooh. Didn't even occur to me... Probably wouldn't matter. At that point it was three to one in TBD's favor, and we had a healer. Just a matter of time. I'll let Maraxus decide, though.
Maraxus 01-29-07, 09:44 PM	Arg, I forget it with the Oozes, I forget it with the elementals. It's just the exitement of rolling a natural 20. :) Should you ever have me as a pitlord and have an undead (or for whatever reason crit-immune PC), mention it to me, I allways forget this. Hm, in the worst case, it will cost one or two additional healing-charges, especially with the +4 HP from rage As about clever: Using the whilrwinds to get in was obvious, I think. Etheralness, Invisibility or neither was the question but then I realised that you have 20 ft reach, he has speed 15 and can only move at half speed. Plus, He could not come directly from south, and because reach does not use the "diagonal = 1.5 squares" rule, It would have been even harder. It would not have been one attack of opportunity. It would have been an AoO, then an attack and in the next turn another AoO (I think). No, that was to brutal for me. :DAnother heavy thing was that the impe..whatever flight rule negated the 5-ft step, so no "stepping behind ally for cover" to cast invisibility. I did not realise this until it was to late, too.
TheMagister 01-29-07, 09:55 PM	I hear you. My relationship with the forest is a love/hate thing. Thanks for running it, though. =) TM
McJarvis 01-29-07, 10:34 PM	Kervan/Torel is up in the forest. I had to do a bit of improv on tactics for Kervan...but the general nature of the tactics(using buffs as needed, preparing readied action for summon spells that never came) required me to do so. My other fight will be run while I'm at lunch tomorrow. Hopefully I'll be able to get it done :-O
Zevox 01-29-07, 10:44 PM	Auburn (Vathelokai) vs Featylec Elendi (Zevox) is up. Real bad rolls decided this one - but even had one been successful, I think the other would have screwed it anyway... Ouch... just ouch. I expected Glitterdust could screw me, but that web too... yeesh. *sigh* A pity this wasn't a more open map... what I wouldn't have given for this fight to be in the city, or even just the temple. Then Featylec could've flat-out stayed out of the tremorsense range and sniped the spiders out. Ah well, thanks for the run, and ignore the PM (didn't realize you were done, or that said web was from a spider, not a spell). One comment on your comments though: glitterdust does not indicate it gives off any great amount of light (outside its name, it doesn't even imply it really - just mentions that the golden particles it produces sparkle), so I don't think it'd prevent hide-in-plain-sight from working. Zevox
TelinArtho 01-29-07, 11:21 PM	Ah - good point, I was thinking of Faerie Fire.
MitzaVolchenko 01-30-07, 04:14 AM	Varsh vs. TIM went as expected. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11331325&postcount=522)
Rauul 01-30-07, 04:22 AM	Weapon (Sutro) vs. Corbin Nightwalker (renlim). (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11328707&postcount=521) bad Spot rolls, and an Sneak kolbold desided this one
Hirumajoe 01-30-07, 07:19 AM	Ah - good point, I was thinking of Faerie Fire. Umm... Faerie Fire doesn't interfere with a Shadow dancer's ability to hide in plain sight. Faerie Fire Evocation [Light] Level: Drd 1 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) Area: Creatures and objects within a 5-ft.-radius burst Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A pale glow surrounds and outlines the subjects. Outlined subjects shed light as candles. Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by darkness (though a 2nd-level or higher magical darkness effect functions normally), blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects. The light is too dim to have any special effect on undead or dark-dwelling creatures vulnerable to light. The faerie fire can be blue, green, or violet, according to your choice at the time of casting. The faerie fire does not cause any harm to the objects or creatures thus outlined. Candle A candle dimly illuminates a 5-foot radius and burns for 1 hour. Hide in Plain Sight (Su) A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow. If anything, in otherwise absolute darkness Faerie fire might in fact *allow* a shadow dancer to use hide in plain sight...
TelinArtho 01-30-07, 08:36 AM	Well, since the spell makes the person glow - that by definition means that there's no shadows around the character. Therefore - the character can't hide (in plain sight). If the character still had cover to work with - he could hide with enough of a check.
Hirumajoe 01-30-07, 10:05 AM	Well, since the spell makes the person glow - that by definition means that there's no shadows around the character. Therefore - the character can't hide (in plain sight). If the character still had cover to work with - he could hide with enough of a check. A shadow dancer needs shadows within 10' (from definition of Shadow Dancer Hide in plain sight). The illumination is dim out to 5' (from spell and candle definition.) At the very least, if there are shadows between 5' and 10' away, the shadow dancer can hide. And also, Faerie fire applies no penalties to the hide skill. It may negate concealment which allows normal hiding in the first place, but in and of itself applies no penalty. Presumably, dim illumination out to 5' *generates* shadows out to 10', assuming objects to cast the shadow, since thats seems how all the other light sources work. Thus, in absolute darkness, and within 10' of any object or most terrain features, a farie fire spell would actually allow a shadow dancer to hide, since they don't require concealment/cover in any way shape or form to hide. Edit: I just realized, every shadow dancer should carry around small balls or blocks. Drop it as a free action and suddenly you have a small instant shadow within 10' anywhere (except maybe in mid-air). Since there's no restriction on the size of the shadow necessary...
McJarvis 01-30-07, 11:35 AM	Last fight is up. Sorry for the improv on the Map, but I think I lucked out on the way both gladiators wanted a ranged fight. :) It let me do the setup a little heavy-handedly.
Erithmu 01-30-07, 12:37 PM	Treetall vs Zwei Busy week comment quickly.
hogarth 01-30-07, 12:44 PM	Treetall vs Zwei Busy week comment quickly. The way the Alchemist's Fires were used seems a bit odd to me. I would have thought that either they should do only [splash damage x 1.5] or they would do [1d6 x 1.5 damage] + [1d6 x 1.5 damage] on the next round. (It's not totally clear to me whether swarms are immune to the "direct hit" damage from a splash weapon or not from reading the rules, but I think it's fair to have splash weapons do normal "direct hit" damage.)
Erithmu 01-30-07, 12:58 PM	Think of it in the difference between exploding in the middle of the swarm (by hitting a bat) vs exploding on the ground/wall. Which will hurt more?
hogarth 01-30-07, 01:02 PM	EDIT: Oops -- my reading comprehension is not so good. Never mind...
McJarvis 01-30-07, 01:26 PM	@Macbrea: As discussed in PM(and even though it wasn't an issue in our fight), your tactics of using a towershield to exit a grapple are invalid. If he grapples me! Do no action on the first round, thereby gaining full cover from the tower shield. This automaticly breaks a grapple as per the FAQ. At this point he may only grapple my shield. If he grapples my shield then spend the next move action to drop the shield. At this point he is likely to move away and attack me again. If he does pick up the shield off the ground restrap it on and move toward my opponent reading to attack him when he comes back. You still have to pick a side of your square when using a tower shield for cover. You share the same square while grappling, so it's impossible to get total cover from someone you're grappled with.
Abyssal Stalker 01-30-07, 01:29 PM	Last fight is up. Sorry for the improv on the Map, but I think I lucked out on the way both gladiators wanted a ranged fight. :) It let me do the setup a little heavy-handedly. No problem. My chances were quite bad, anyway. I didn't notice that wand of MM before I got to read Zevox's tactics. That meant pretty much that I was dead. With a different approach I could've stood a chance. Wands are a curse on lower levels. Edit: Actually, wands are that on higher levels too. They just get more expensive.
Abyssal Stalker 01-30-07, 01:36 PM	@McJarvis: the rewards are incorrect. Shouldn't they be 1050xp ang gold for Mithos and 450 to Ikhain. Mithos has a penalty for his warhorse.
Erithmu 01-30-07, 02:35 PM	Kervan/Torel is up in the forest. I had to do a bit of improv on tactics for Kervan...but the general nature of the tactics(using buffs as needed, preparing readied action for summon spells that never came) required me to do so. My other fight will be run while I'm at lunch tomorrow. Hopefully I'll be able to get it done :-O I have a feeling that MWB will state the following: - Kervan has R:energy sonic up which will absorb a good chunk of the damage from the energy sub sonic call lightning.
MitzaVolchenko 01-30-07, 02:46 PM	Treetall vs Zwei Busy week comment quickly. Curious as to why she engaged the swarm at all...if she heard her foe, she should have moved toward him trying to locate her enemy rather than continuing to play footsie with the summons. He is the important one, not whatever he calls in to fight for him.
Erithmu 01-30-07, 03:17 PM	Curious as to why she engaged the swarm at all...if she heard her foe, she should have moved toward him trying to locate her enemy rather than continuing to play footsie with the summons. He is the important one, not whatever he calls in to fight for him. I had not thought of that to be honest. When reading tactics the first option (after seeing Treetall's Ani Comp was out of the game) I figured for the Alchie fire, (which would have worked with either of the first two flasks hitting.) It is a good option, and I did look at your previous fight record to see if you had faced any druids/swarm summons and did not. I can see that it might work (with Treetall's reduced movement) I am hesitant with this being offered after the fight has been run, and I don't have my SRD infront of me (at a public computer). Mitza I would need a very good reason, with rules support to change the fight, not an option of pitlord adjustment to tactics. If you think my adjustment to tactics was not in the spirit of your tactics (and I understand that is a very vague term) then I will take a second look at it. But I think that the use of the alchie fire was not a 'bad' option nor was it out of line of your tactics listed. Switching computer to my home computer, back in like 30.
Zevox 01-30-07, 03:31 PM	No problem. My chances were quite bad, anyway. I didn't notice that wand of MM before I got to read Zevox's tactics. That meant pretty much that I was dead. With a different approach I could've stood a chance. Wands are a curse on lower levels. Edit: Actually, wands are that on higher levels too. They just get more expensive. Yeah, like I said in my tactics, I didn't want to do that, but nothing else was too likely to win. Melee was bad no matter how I slice it - if I didn't enlarge, tripping was unlikely (since it'd be +6 mod vs +5 on Ikhain); and if I did, my AC was too low, and his TWF + favored enemy would tear through me with just a couple of rounds. And in ranged combat Ikhain would beat him due to his superior attack and damage with a bow. But anyway, fight looks good, thanks to McJarvis for running it :) . Zevox
MindWandererB 01-30-07, 03:39 PM	I have a feeling that MWB will state the following: - Kervan has R:energy sonic up which will absorb a good chunk of the damage from the energy sub sonic call lightning.Yes, I was indeed about to say that. I was also about to say that I asked to recall and re-cast Entangle should it be unsuccessful, as a higher priority than my other offensive spells. I would appreciate the correction--although my chances are not so great, I would at least like to die by something that can actually hurt me.
MitzaVolchenko 01-30-07, 04:39 PM	I had not thought of that to be honest. When reading tactics the first option (after seeing Treetall's Ani Comp was out of the game) I figured for the Alchie fire, (which would have worked with either of the first two flasks hitting.) It is a good option, and I did look at your previous fight record to see if you had faced any druids/swarm summons and did not. I can see that it might work (with Treetall's reduced movement) I am hesitant with this being offered after the fight has been run, and I don't have my SRD infront of me (at a public computer). Mitza I would need a very good reason, with rules support to change the fight, not an option of pitlord adjustment to tactics. If you think my adjustment to tactics was not in the spirit of your tactics (and I understand that is a very vague term) then I will take a second look at it. But I think that the use of the alchie fire was not a 'bad' option nor was it out of line of your tactics listed. Switching computer to my home computer, back in like 30. I have no problem with your choice to use the alch fire...my issue is with attacking a summons over the summoner when the only reason I included his companion at all was in case he went the invisible, let the animals do the work routine. As clarified to you on your request: Simple question: Who has priority? The wolf or Treetall and in what situation? Ie: As I read it you want me to grapple Treetall even if the wolf is alive. Treetall has priority...even losing dex to AC, Zwei still has a fair shot at killing Treetall before the wolf kills her. I include the wolf since it is possible that Treetall will sit in his start square invisible and let the wolf kill me. Now that you mention it, I am not sure it is worth grappling Treetall at all...just as effective to run up and flurry him. Sure, he sucks in a grapple, but there is no reason to deny Zwei her dex vs. the wolf. Ignore grapple and just pound the snot out of Treetall when he presents himself as a target. Until then shoot/alch fire the wolf. As soon as he was detected by her hearing his casting, he took 100% priority.
Erithmu 01-30-07, 07:29 PM	Ok ... (Sorry for not getting back sooner, I visited a friend of mine who is stuck in her house.) I have a dinner here in 30 min, but I will return and take a look at moving around the bear instead of killing the bear and running away. I know you are a night owl anyway so if you log on to chat I'll let you know how it is going. Granted Treetall is invisible, but I will see the 'focus on Treetall' to the end. EDIT: he is also technically invisible (even to blindsense) to his swarm.
hogarth 01-31-07, 07:14 AM	Ok ... (Sorry for not getting back sooner, I visited a friend of mine who is stuck in her house.) I have a dinner here in 30 min, but I will return and take a look at moving around the bear instead of killing the bear and running away. I know you are a night owl anyway so if you log on to chat I'll let you know how it is going. Granted Treetall is invisible, but I will see the 'focus on Treetall' to the end. EDIT: he is also technically invisible (even to blindsense) to his swarm. Since you're re-examining the battle, I'm not sure why you had Treetall move so close to Zwei before casting his Summon Swarm. I certainly didn't intend to do so in my tactics.
Hirumajoe 01-31-07, 07:25 AM	@Macbrea: In regards to the Ihald/Valen fight, I see a few numerical errors that I'd like to point out. The rapid shot attack in round 4 from Ihald at Valen missed, due to Valen having designated Ihald as his dodge opponent (Aka dodge buddy), providing +1 Dodge AC and increasing his AC to 26 vs Ihald. This would have prevented 10 damage, placing Valen at 5 hps in the final round, instead of -3. Also, the versus modifier for Ihald during sunder attempts on the bow should have been 14 (base) + 2 (Cat's Grace) - 2 (Entangling Attack) - 2 (Entangling dex penalty) - 4 (Non-melee weapon) = +8 not + 16. (Not that it actually changes anything on that front). Edit: Actually re-reading the rules, you only take a -4 penalty with a light weapon... The -4 for a non-melee weapon is under the disarm rules. So I have no clue if a bow would take the -4 penalty, since its technically not a light, one-handed or two-handed weapon. My gut instinct is yes, but the rules if read as written say no. Also, the Ranged Touch attack for Valen's Entangling Ectoplasm should have been at +11, not +8. (I probably should include a Touch attack line now that I think about it). +5 BAB + 3 Dex + 2 Animal Affinity + 1 Point blank shot = + 11. However, given the hour, I don't expect you to have time to edit, so I'll just accept the fight as is. Besides the string of 20s at the end seems to be trying to tell us something. (You'd think requiring 17-20s in melee would give the opponent a fightning chance, but nooo... :D ) Thanks for the run.
Erithmu 01-31-07, 09:20 AM	Since you're re-examining the battle, I'm not sure why you had Treetall move so close to Zwei before casting his Summon Swarm. I certainly didn't intend to do so in my tactics. After talking w/ Mitza there is no rerun.
MitzaVolchenko 01-31-07, 09:51 AM	After talking w/ Mitza there is no rerun. Hey, if he wants to rewind for the same reason that I had some reservatoins... just kidding, but in all honesty, Treetall needs to be more precise in the future...run out round to round as written, the bats take on the bear and then flutter uselessly about until Treetall hits delay and gets grappled to death.
hogarth 01-31-07, 09:53 AM	Hey, if he wants to rewind for the same reason that I had some reservatoins... just kidding, but in all honesty, Treetall needs to be more precise in the future...run out round to round as written, the bats take on the bear and then flutter uselessly about until Treetall hits delay and gets grappled to death. Huh? My plan was for the bats to hear the battle betwixt monk and bear and attack both of them. Why wouldn't the bats be able to find Zwei?
Hirumajoe 01-31-07, 09:55 AM	Here's a question for the rules lawyers: If you have a longbow and spiked gauntlet, and let go of the bow with one hand (so that you can use the spiked gauntlet and threaten to take AoOs), are you wielding the longbow or are you carrying it? Since longbows take 2 hands to use. Are you wielding the bow when you take an AoO with the gauntlet? Would an attempt to sunder a longbow held in one hand be the at Attack Roll + Modifiers or would it be at 10 + Size + dex? The wording on the sunder attack action indicates a wielded weapon gets the Attack Roll + modifiers while a carried object takes the 10 + Size + dex. Sunder You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding. If you’re attempting to sunder a weapon or shield, follow the steps outlined here. (Attacking held objects other than weapons or shields is covered below.) Step 1 Attack of Opportunity. You provoke an attack of opportunity from the target whose weapon or shield you are trying to sunder. (If you have the Improved Sunder feat, you don’t incur an attack of opportunity for making the attempt.) Step 2 Opposed Rolls. You and the defender make opposed attack rolls with your respective weapons. The wielder of a two-handed weapon on a sunder attempt gets a +4 bonus on this roll, and the wielder of a light weapon takes a -4 penalty. If the combatants are of different sizes, the larger combatant gets a bonus on the attack roll of +4 per difference in size category. Step 3 Consequences. If you beat the defender, roll damage and deal it to the weapon or shield. See Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points to determine how much damage you must deal to destroy the weapon or shield. If you fail the sunder attempt, you don’t deal any damage. Sundering a Carried or Worn Object You don’t use an opposed attack roll to damage a carried or worn object. Instead, just make an attack roll against the object’s AC. A carried or worn object’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier + the Dexterity modifier of the carrying or wearing character. Attacking a carried or worn object provokes an attack of opportunity just as attacking a held object does. To attempt to snatch away an item worn by a defender rather than damage it, see Disarm. You can’t sunder armor worn by another character.
MitzaVolchenko 01-31-07, 10:02 AM	Huh? My plan was for the bats to hear the battle betwixt monk and bear and attack both of them. Why wouldn't the bats be able to find Zwei? The bats are non-directable...she double moves away and they ignore her in favor of the bear. They are then limited to line of sight and have no intelligence in which to follow her more than one turn...in short they get lost and go back to randomly selecting their direction (there should have been coin tosses for each direction they took except that they marginally speaking had LOS thanks to Rith waiting to cast the swarm until you could confirm Zwei's engagement with the bear).
hogarth 01-31-07, 10:06 AM	The bats are non-directable...she double moves away and they ignore her in favor of the bear. I still don't get it. Zwei has 40' move. The bear has 40' move. The bats have 40' move. So how can Zwei run away from the bear? And the bats? Anyways, I'm sure we can both come up with situations where Zwei wins and situations where Treetall wins. My only real comment about the battle is that Zwei might consider investing in a potion of Protection from Evil some time soon... ;)
Macbrea 01-31-07, 10:14 AM	Currently, as written, the rules state a bow is used two handed. It's a free action to remove your hand from the bow and a free hand to put your hand back on the bow. I agree, it's silly rules interpetation but has been used for deflect arrow while wielding a bow. This leaves his spiked gauntlet free to do the AoO. The miss is my error and I can fix it later today. Currently, I am at work an they frown upon me doing heavy message board reading. I try and get the alteration and last couple rounds up later today.
MitzaVolchenko 01-31-07, 10:32 AM	I still don't get it. Zwei has 40' move. The bear has 40' move. The bats have 40' move. So how can Zwei run away from the bear? And the bats? Anyways, I'm sure we can both come up with situations where Zwei wins and situations where Treetall wins. My only real comment about the battle is that Zwei might consider investing in a potion of Protection from Evil some time soon... ;) In a word...NO. I am unhappy with her using as many expendables as she does now...the number of expendables will be decreasing, not increasing. As to the moves, the bats go for the closest item...on a full withdraw, that leaves the bear closest...at the least it is 50-50 which they go for. Enough discussion. I chatted over the fight on IM with Rith, who was kind enough to toss around the possibilities and the rules. That is enough for me. I could argue for a re-run all day long, and in fact Rith offered to go back and extensively edit as needed, but the end result is that it is not worth the time or effort when the result is 80% sure to remain the same.
Hirumajoe 01-31-07, 10:35 AM	Currently, as written, the rules state a bow is used two handed. It's a free action to remove your hand from the bow and a free hand to put your hand back on the bow. I agree, it's silly rules interpetation but has been used for deflect arrow while wielding a bow. This leaves his spiked gauntlet free to do the AoO. Hmm... Good point. I do wonder at how simultaneous the AoO and the sunder roll are supposed to be. In the case of deflect arrow, there's only one thing happening, the deflection. In this case, two things are happening, the attack of opportunity and the sunder. And the attack of opportunity is a part of the sunder. I'm just curious if you're allowed to take a free action in the middle of that 1.2.3. step listing. Given the lack of specifics in the sunder listing, probably. In any case, Spiked Armor instead of a spiked gauntlet would let you do the same thing anyways. I suppose this means I should invest in some spikes for my chain shirt... The miss is my error and I can fix it later today. Currently, I am at work an they frown upon me doing heavy message board reading. I try and get the alteration and last couple rounds up later today. Thank you. If you don't have time to get it up, don't worry about it. And the AoO/Sunder/longbow question is more for my edification and understanding for later fights than the current one (although it is what sparked it.)
Macbrea 01-31-07, 11:11 AM	Well, was able to finish the fight up with the changes. But, it didn't change much. The roller just dislikes Valen best I can tell. Links to rolls were here (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=1063)
Hirumajoe 01-31-07, 11:30 AM	Well, was able to finish the fight up with the changes. But, it didn't change much. The roller just dislikes Valen best I can tell. Links to rolls were here (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=1063) Given the number of fights Valen has won that he shouldn't have due to lucky rolls, I have no complaints. :) Thanks for corrections.
c00lz3 01-31-07, 05:20 PM	The bats are non-directable...she double moves away and they ignore her in favor of the bear. They are then limited to line of sight and have no intelligence in which to follow her more than one turn...in short they get lost and go back to randomly selecting their direction (there should have been coin tosses for each direction they took except that they marginally speaking had LOS thanks to Rith waiting to cast the swarm until you could confirm Zwei's engagement with the bear). I had a smiliar issue with swarms recently and with a similar set up. We could of moved away as our tactics state and the swarms would of targeted a nearby animal. The way it happens we both stand there, waste resources, and then die. I hope you get another chance.