Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 01-31-07, 11:42 AM	Fights of the Week: January 31st Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM Caterane will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Make sure that your character is not in prison (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571107&goto=lastpost). Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Recent News and Developments If you're in a guild (or just interested in it) the World Event is in its last week. Also if you're interested in the guild system please vote in the "Discussion: What should the guild system be like?" Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
hogarth 01-31-07, 05:03 PM	@Maraxus - tactics sent for Balthazar Picsou
SauroGrenom 01-31-07, 05:13 PM	Pitlords, Telin is both Pitlord and participant in the interception of Raskos by sneaky dis-honorable agents of TLT.
Pitlords 01-31-07, 05:14 PM	Pairings Done +8: Mitza +4: MWB, Sauro, TM +3: Siggie, Telin, Vath, Cat +2: McJarvis, Rith, Iced +1: Abyssal, Rauul, Niqil +0: Maraxus, Macbrea, Zevox
Pitlords 01-31-07, 05:16 PM	Pitlords, Telin is both Pitlord and participant in the interception of Raskos by sneaky dis-honorable agents of TLT. Exchanged with Zevox
MindWandererB 01-31-07, 05:16 PM	@Pitlords/Cat: The guild intercepts need maps assigned to them, please.
Pitlords 01-31-07, 05:18 PM	@Pitlords/Cat: The guild intercepts need maps assigned to them, please. Done
Maraxus 01-31-07, 05:20 PM	@Maraxus - tactics sent for Balthazar Picsou I nominate this for the fastest tactics-sending, ever.
Sjiggie 01-31-07, 05:40 PM	Zerth is facing Blizzard again in the same map with the same pitlord just like last week. Can this be changed?
TelinArtho 01-31-07, 05:40 PM	@TM - tactics for Farig have been sent.
c00lz3 01-31-07, 06:02 PM	I just wanted to state that Wisp has 32hp not 30 I forgot to fix this while editing. Hey It's my first team fight!
Maraxus 01-31-07, 06:02 PM	Izumi (Macbrea) vs. Balrog (Maraxus) is a copy of last weeks fight. Both other ECL 6 character neither of us has fought, however. [Torel Silvanus (Erithmu) vs. Farig of Denth (TelinArtho)]
Sjiggie 01-31-07, 06:07 PM	@ Mitza tactics for Tralamin have been sent.
Erithmu 01-31-07, 06:14 PM	Izumi (Macbrea) vs. Balrog (Maraxus) is a copy of last weeks fight. Both other ECL 6 character neither of us has fought, however. [Torel Silvanus (Erithmu) vs. Farig of Denth (TelinArtho)] No .. your on a different map. On the other hand, repeat fights are common with the auto pairing script. Look at Dronnar's streak of 3 fights with Walden in a row. 4 if you count the FFA that happened afterwards.
MitzaVolchenko 01-31-07, 06:15 PM	I need tactics ASAP. If I am running an MQ for you I REQUIRE a PM that gives me some notion of what you want out of it, otherwise I will randomly roll a monster fight.
Macbrea 01-31-07, 06:19 PM	Silly question.. if A monster has a high intimidation can it cause allies to not show up?
Milov 01-31-07, 06:25 PM	I would think so, but I never really dealt to throughly with Intimidate so I'm not fully sure.
Zevox 01-31-07, 06:26 PM	Hm... ah, dang, I wanted Indrithia active this week, but I put the wrong date in her title line. Meh, oh well, I'm probably retiring her soon anyway. Silly question.. if A monster has a high intimidation can it cause allies to not show up? No - monsters do not get free activities. By the way, I noticed Featylec's monster description is up, but I need burglary information too (or to know that it doesn't have anything I can take if it doesn't, so I know not to be waiting for that). Zevox
Eluria 01-31-07, 06:30 PM	I need tactics ASAP. @Mitza: tactics sent for Qwogi vs. Graashnak Vruuurk
Macbrea 01-31-07, 06:31 PM	Hm... ah, dang, I wanted Indrithia active this week, but I put the wrong date in her title line. Meh, oh well, I'm probably retiring her soon anyway. No - monsters do not get free activities. By the way, I noticed Featylec's monster description is up, but I need burglary information too (or to know that it doesn't have anything I can take if it doesn't, so I know not to be waiting for that). Zevox Treasure: None And it really doesn't need it vs Faetylec. CR <> ECL...
Erithmu 01-31-07, 06:36 PM	@TM: Tactics for Torel sent. I'm kinda scared that Telin got his tactics for the fight sent out so quickly.
MindWandererB 01-31-07, 06:38 PM	@Sauro: Tactics sent for Besthirah vs. Indivara: @Mitza: I'll get you a synopsis right away. Won't be much, really.
Rauul 01-31-07, 06:39 PM	tactics Sent for Graashnak vs Qwogi
Macbrea 01-31-07, 06:52 PM	All tactics are sent.
Rauul 01-31-07, 07:15 PM	tacts Sent for Rauul vs Matthis
Zevox 01-31-07, 07:30 PM	And TLT backstabs Raskos is up. ... so, we don't have any other fights needing a Pitlord this week, do we? ;) Zevox
MindWandererB 01-31-07, 07:35 PM	Hm. Hadn't even thought of that. That really hammers home how much the time limit is uncool. I have to admit, I feel bad about exploiting it. In other news, Uhme's and Leif's operation miniquests are up, and the monsters have been rolled. They will not make for entertaining reading.
Zevox 01-31-07, 07:38 PM	@ Macbrea - Tactics for Featylec sent. If I have the monster pegged right, it'll come down to if it ever spots me. If I don't, I probably used an expendable or two I didn't need to, but meh. Zevox
Maraxus 01-31-07, 08:29 PM	Zassl and Balrog tactcs are out, the team tactic will need a day, or such, more.
Zevox 01-31-07, 08:33 PM	@ McJarvis - Tactics for Istima Telarc (vs Valen Sky) have been PMed. I love being a pure manifester with more hp and AC than my more physically-oriented foes :D . Zevox
NiQil 01-31-07, 08:44 PM	Zerth is facing Blizzard again in the same map with the same pitlord just like last week. Can this be changed? An easy way to fix this would be to just swap Wildfire and Blizzard, so that Blizzard faces Mithos Durrol and Wildfire faces Zerth, as long as all parties are in agreement. @ Zevox & Sjiggie: What say you?
Zevox 01-31-07, 09:03 PM	An easy way to fix this would be to just swap Wildfire and Blizzard, so that Blizzard faces Mithos Durrol and Wildfire faces Zerth, as long as all parties are in agreement. @ Zevox & Sjiggie: What say you? *shrugs* Theres no difference between the two of them, so I don't care. Sjiggie may prefer to actually face a different character this week though. Zevox
MitzaVolchenko 01-31-07, 09:05 PM	Treasure: None And it really doesn't need it vs Faetylec. CR <> ECL... Free skill packages only apply on one vs. one fights...not monster, not FFA, not hunter.
Vathelokai 01-31-07, 09:08 PM	@Abyssal: Tactics for Auburn (vs. Zassl) sent.
Zevox 01-31-07, 10:14 PM	Free skill packages only apply on one vs. one fights...not monster, not FFA, not hunter. Where in the rules does it say that? I can't find any such thing. Certainly I can't see why it wouldn't apply in hunter and FFA fights; and every monster fight involving a burglar thus far has allowed it to be used against them. Zevox
Macbrea 01-31-07, 10:59 PM	to Quote, skills section of rules of gladius.. There are, however, some restrictions: You need at least 5 ranks in each skill mentioned, and you can only use it in a 1 vs 1 Battle of Gladius (ie no Multiplayer fights, quests, etc).
Zevox 01-31-07, 11:18 PM	to Quote, skills section of rules of gladius.. There are, however, some restrictions: You need at least 5 ranks in each skill mentioned, and you can only use it in a 1 vs 1 Battle of Gladius (ie no Multiplayer fights, quests, etc). *frowns* Well, that is odd. I can certainly understand miniquests (can't do free activities for them anyway), and monster fights would be a reasonable restriction, but why no FFAs/Hunters/Teams/Inter-Leagues? That kinda sucks for burglars... Zevox
TelinArtho 01-31-07, 11:45 PM	@TM: Tactics for Torel sent. I'm kinda scared that Telin got his tactics for the fight sent out so quickly. I wouldn't be too scared... I just happened to be watching the pairings like a hawk...
MitzaVolchenko 02-01-07, 01:21 AM	*frowns* Well, that is odd. I can certainly understand miniquests (can't do free activities for them anyway), and monster fights would be a reasonable restriction, but why no FFAs/Hunters/Teams/Inter-Leagues? That kinda sucks for burglars... Zevox Free activities on quests/MQ's are generally up to the QL to allow or disallow...unless that changed when I wasn't looking?
Zevox 02-01-07, 01:23 AM	Free activities on quests/MQ's are generally up to the QL to allow or disallow...unless that changed when I wasn't looking? You must've still been absent when that was changed, because it was indeed changed to simply not allowing free activities for quests/MQs, and it was advertised when it occurred. Can't recall the exact rationale behind it. *shrugs* Zevox
Etiquette_Gnome 02-01-07, 02:57 AM	@ TelinArtho, Mitza - Tactics for Sabra & Hiisi, respectively, sent.
Abyssal Stalker 02-01-07, 03:12 AM	@Rauul: tactics for Ikhain sent (vs Stinking Turtle) @Vath and Maraxus: tactics received
Sjiggie 02-01-07, 04:27 AM	An easy way to fix this would be to just swap Wildfire and Blizzard, so that Blizzard faces Mithos Durrol and Wildfire faces Zerth, as long as all parties are in agreement. @ Zevox & Sjiggie: What say you? Well Blizzard or Wildfire doens't really matter let's keep us to the pairings.
waywreth 02-01-07, 08:49 AM	@MitzaVolchenko - Tactics for Matthis sent for Rauul Darkstar (Rauul) vs. Matthis Dar'ath III (waywreth) : MitzaVolchenko
Zevox 02-01-07, 01:32 PM	@ Sjiggie - Tactics for Mithos Durrol (vs Wildfire) have been PMed. Zevox
Sjiggie 02-01-07, 01:32 PM	@TheMagister Tactics for Zerth have been sent. Let's ope for the same result as last week with some modified tactics. @NiQil please send me your tactics by pm asap will need to run the battle this weekend otherwise I don't have the time for it.
UserNamer 02-01-07, 01:33 PM	@Maraxus: Tactics for McVitie sent. @MitzaVolchenko: Tactics for Gladys sent.
MindWandererB 02-01-07, 02:56 PM	You must've still been absent when that was changed, because it was indeed changed to simply not allowing free activities for quests/MQs, and it was advertised when it occurred. Can't recall the exact rationale behind it. *shrugs* Zevox It was a bookkeeping thing. Cat wanted a standard format for title lines, and this way, either your free activity or your declaration to not be in a standard pairing is put into the second clause.
Hrothmund 02-01-07, 02:59 PM	This is the third week in a row that Maelosh the Breaker is in a team fight. Is it not someone else's turn to be in the team fight?
orsono 02-01-07, 03:14 PM	Gashara Tactics sent to Telin. 4 vs 4 match
SauroGrenom 02-01-07, 07:20 PM	Still waiting on tactics from MitzaVolchenko for Lady Indivara...
MitzaVolchenko 02-01-07, 10:06 PM	Still waiting on tactics from MitzaVolchenko for Lady Indivara... Yep, and you'll probably have to wait until tomorrow as I need to gt as much of my second fight which is a holdover completed as possible before moving onto that one. The interception may be a moot point as she may never make it to it.
Always-Late 02-01-07, 10:21 PM	Okay, what did I do wrong now? Dekry got lost on the way to the Coliseum again...
Zevox 02-01-07, 10:27 PM	Okay, what did I do wrong now? Dekry got lost on the way to the Coliseum again... From the look of things, nothing. With that title line you should have been paired, which means the error was on Pitlords' end. PM Caterane to see if you can get a monster battle or something. Zevox
MitzaVolchenko 02-01-07, 10:32 PM	From the look of things, nothing. With that title line you should have been paired, which means the error was on Pitlords' end. PM Caterane to see if you can get a monster battle or something. Zevox PM Pitlords that Rauul will take the extra fight...he offered to take one of mine, so I know he has time (and he lives with me, so again, I know he has time).
hogarth 02-01-07, 10:48 PM	@TelinArtho: tactics sent for Treetall + Durin
NiQil 02-01-07, 11:52 PM	@ TheMagister: Tactics for Blizzard sent via PM @ Sjiggie: Tactics for Wildfire sent via PM
Rauul 02-02-07, 01:23 AM	yea yea i can do another fight:D :D :confused:
TheMagister 02-02-07, 07:15 AM	@ my pitlords - Tactics will be submitted (mostly) by the deadline. At worst they'll be a few hours late. Please by patient with me! TM
TelinArtho 02-02-07, 09:37 AM	I have received Gashara's and Sabra's for the 4-way fight. I have received Treetall and Durin's team tactics for the team fight. I do try to run one fight before the weekend when I can. If I don't have the tactics though - they end up waiting until Monday.
Sjiggie 02-02-07, 11:10 AM	I've a problem with the fight I'm running does anybody knows the answer? When a caster is in the middle of casting a full round spell and in the before he can finish his spell his mount is taken out how will this affect his spellcasting. a) Does he make the ride check to slowfall as normal and when he fails it make a concentration check to maintain the spell b) he must make a concentration check vs Vigorous motion a ride check to slowfall as normal and when he fails it make a concentration check to maintain the spell c)or something else?
TelinArtho 02-02-07, 11:24 AM	Given that he is in the middle of casting, I'd say he wouldn't have the opportunity to make a slow fall check. I would make 2 checks - 1 for the damage he takes from the fall (DC10+damage), 1 for the vigorous motion (or rather - violent motion for a DC15 check).
waywreth 02-02-07, 11:33 AM	I sort of agree with Telin. If it was a tabletop game, I'd give the player the option of dumping the spell or taking the damage, but in this environment, that isn't an option. Thus, I'd do one check for the damage he takes from the fall (DC10+damage).
Zevox 02-02-07, 12:27 PM	Thus, I'd do one check for the damage he takes from the fall (DC10+damage). I agree with that interpretation. Falling from a mount should hardly qualify as violent motion the way being on a running mount for the duration of a casting would. Zevox
TelinArtho 02-02-07, 12:36 PM	Okay then, by the same reasoning then, a person who is tripped off his feet would not need to make a concentration check then? While falling itself is not issue I am bringing up, the hit on the ground is. However, it is up to pitlord discretion I suppose.
Macbrea 02-02-07, 12:37 PM	I wouldn't consider the fall to just be violent motion. I would consider it 'taking damage during action' 10+damage taken+spell level. For those of you that have ridden a horse before those numbers are slightly backwords. Walk - up-down motion easy to control Trot - voilent up-down-forward-back motion very annoying Gallop - Smooth forward-back motion that seems be the most comfortable motion you can be on while riding. That double move should in truth be a very annoying step to cast spells at. The horse doesn't know wether it wants to move forward or hop in place. It's an in between step. Now. game wise it should be violent motion for moving horse and damage taken for sudden stop.
TheMagister 02-02-07, 01:48 PM	@Zevox - tactics for Rubi sent via PM. @c00lze - copied the tactics to you just in case they might affect your choices. TM
Sjiggie 02-02-07, 02:06 PM	Mithos vs Wildfire is done Setup (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11365845&postcount=530)&Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11365870&postcount=531) In the end I only used 1 concentration check because the fall wouldn't force concentration but the hit on the ground would.
MindWandererB 02-02-07, 02:39 PM	My logic on the concentration/horse issue: Soft Fall: you can perform a move action while concentrating, which mounting or dismounting is. Doing so quickly and safely should be no more. After all, you can apply your Dex bonus to AC while casting/concentrating, and you can make Reflex saves. Soft Fall involves no more. Concentration checks: If a vigorous motion results in you taking damage, you make the Concentration check for the damage, not the motion. If someone hits you with a weapon, you don't make one check for being smacked around and another for being hurt. But I would say that a fall from a horse that dealt no damage, or a trip, would certainly be distracting enough for a DC 15 check, if not DC 20.
Zevox 02-02-07, 02:51 PM	Mithos vs Wildfire is done Setup (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11365845&postcount=530)&Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11365870&postcount=531) In the end I only used 1 concentration check because the fall wouldn't force concentration but the hit on the ground would. I was afraid it would come to that. Oh well, I guess using that wand now is better than conserving most of its charges forever and ending up with it being inefficient at higher levels. No major errors that I could see, thanks for running the fight! Zevox
NiQil 02-02-07, 09:17 PM	Mithos vs Wildfire is done Setup (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11365845&postcount=530)&Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11365870&postcount=531) In the end I only used 1 concentration check because the fall wouldn't force concentration but the hit on the ground would. No major errors that I see...one of these days I'll get to fight more than once in a row against someone that doesn't have a warhorse....
Etiquette_Gnome 02-02-07, 09:26 PM	You can activate a wand while grappling without making a check? And I would love to not use a warhorse, but that speed boost is so stinkin' cheap/good.
Zevox 02-02-07, 09:33 PM	No major errors that I see...one of these days I'll get to fight more than once in a row against someone that doesn't have a warhorse.... *shrugs* At least in this fight the horse made little difference, eh? Besides, its easier dealing with that than the mount he'll be getting later - Pegasus Psychic Warrior :D . You can activate a wand while grappling without making a check? Yep. Wands never require concentration checks, since they're spell-trigger items, requiring only a single spoken word to activate. Zevox
NiQil 02-02-07, 09:34 PM	You can activate a wand while grappling without making a check? And I would love to not use a warhorse, but that speed boost is so stinkin' cheap/good. Here ya go: Activate a Magic Item: You can activate a magic item, as long as the item doesn’t require a spell completion trigger. You don’t need to make a grapple check to activate the item. Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. In a nutshell, yes..wands and dorjes can be used in a grapple with no checks required. And as for the horses...I just really think that they make the lower levels almost unplayable anymore. If you don't have a horse, you are probably going to lose a great deal until about level 5 or so. It's one thing to actually set out to build a mounted combat build...but just to buy a horse because your build can't survive on it's own just rubs me the wrong way. Not saying that anyone is guilty of that...but with so many PC's with horses anymore, that's how I feel. <shrug>
MindWandererB 02-02-07, 09:37 PM	I agree with you, for the most part. But then, I feel that way about allies in general. Light warhorses are just an incredibly good choice for a low-level ally. And since they're pretrained, you don't even need to be a mountie to use them (grappling horse teams notwithstanding).
Etiquette_Gnome 02-02-07, 09:38 PM	I've been tempted to make a mounted combat build, but the big thing I would use for such is charge-builds; which I don't see working too often due to the difficulty in charges, on top of the various movement mode differences at higher levels. Now, the one build that I do have that uses a warhorse won't use it for ANYTHING but the movement it grants (not wanting to use it as some kind of melee monster). As soon as I get another ally (still contemplating how to go about it), I will drop the horse like a hot potato.
NiQil 02-02-07, 09:38 PM	*shrugs* At least in this fight the horse made little difference, eh? Besides, its easier dealing with that than the mount he'll be getting later - Pegasus Psychic Warrior :D . Yep. Wands never require concentration checks, since they're spell-trigger items, requiring only a single spoken word to activate. Zevox I disagree...had the horse not been there, all of those sling shots would have hit Mithos, and he would have died in the grapple. So he very much affected the outcome of this fight, though he may not have done direct damage.
Zevox 02-02-07, 09:43 PM	I disagree...had the horse not been there, all of those sling shots would have hit Mithos, and he would have died in the grapple. So he very much affected the outcome of this fight, though he may not have done direct damage. Actually, not a single one of those sling shots would've hit Mithos' AC (20). Zevox
NiQil 02-02-07, 09:46 PM	Actually, not a single one of those sling shots would've hit Mithos' AC (20). Zevox True...but unless Mithos used his Exp Retreat scroll, there would have been the opportunity for more shots at him since he would advance slower. And I'm not saying any of those would have hit either...the result may have still been the same. But the point remains that the horse directly affected the outcome of the fight just by being present.
MindWandererB 02-02-07, 10:14 PM	All right, I've come to a decision. After seeing the reaction that Sauro, Mitza, and to a lesser extent Zevox have had toward the TLT interception, and the apparently general consensus that the World Event time limit is full of crap, I'd like to offer some alternatives. Since I'm tired of all the hostility surrounding this, I'm going to put these forth as things I would approve of, and leave it to the other concerned parties to select one if they so desire. The interception proceed as stated, but the time limit ignored. The quest can be finished if Raskos and/or Indivara beat the intercepters and their third fight. Their surrenders would, of course, be revoked. The interceptions be withdrawn entirely and the quests proceed as scheduled. I would recommend in this case that the deadline be extended for these quests, but since the characters are frozen I doubt there will be any objection. Everything stay exactly as it is. Some other alternative...? (Obviously I reserve the right to not approve of this carte blanche.) I have one more thing to say, and it's probably not going to sound good no matter how hard I try, so please try not to be offended. It doesn't seem like anyone really wants to be playing the guild game as it is designed. TM complained when CEF used its strength to retaliate against him. Cat complained when multiple other guilds were about to gang up on him. Sauro complains... well, a lot. NiQil quit. Etcetera. As written, the guild game is about conflict. To me, the way people are acting is like playing Starcraft and complaining when someone else attacks the colony you've spent so much effort in building. (This, BTW, is why I play Starcraft cooperatively only.) I have now come to the conclusion that if I want to have any friends around here, I have to not play the game the way it's designed. I have to not do anything nasty to anyone, ever, unless it's in retaliation (and not always even then), and since everyone else will do the same, our armies and characters will be used only against PMGs and whatnot. Which is fine, I can play like that, now that I know. That's how I play games with my wife and friends. But we'll need a lot more nonhostile things to do. The mini-events will help, and the contests were okay, but there needs to be something to do weekly beyond errands. And there will need to be more we can do with armies later on besides attack each other. All right, I'm done ranting. But seeing as how the majority of us have gotten ticked off at the others at some point, and have taken it at least somewhat personally, are we really playing the game we want to be playing? Even Cat?
Zevox 02-02-07, 11:09 PM	@ MWB - To clarify, the only reason this rubs me the wrong way is because of the time limit abuse. Cutting the whole event off in that manner after five weeks of effort has been put into it just plain sucks if you ask me. If this were just a typical interception, I'd have no issue with it - I'd react of course, like I did with the last one by having Asran intercept Daisy, but it wouldn't bother me. Hells, to be honest, if it weren't for how risky getting into a conflict while trying to establish our basic economy at this stage would be in the long run, we'd probably still be feuding with you. I actually enjoyed the week-by-week battles that were going on earlier - made things seem much more active with the Guilds. As for the options you put forth, I must regretfully mention that if #1 is what happens, Raskos' fight will need a new pitlord. Today was my day for running fights - tomorrow and sunday I have work nearly all day, monday I have school, and tuesday I have both. So just a heads-up there. Zevox
TheMagister 02-03-07, 07:22 AM	TM complained when CEF used its strength to retaliate against him. Crap. Now I come with a warning label. ;)
MitzaVolchenko 02-03-07, 11:03 AM	All right, I've come to a decision. After seeing the reaction that Sauro, Mitza, and to a lesser extent Zevox have had toward the TLT interception, and the apparently general consensus that the World Event time limit is full of crap, I'd like to offer some alternatives. Since I'm tired of all the hostility surrounding this, I'm going to put these forth as things I would approve of, and leave it to the other concerned parties to select one if they so desire. The interception proceed as stated, but the time limit ignored. The quest can be finished if Raskos and/or Indivara beat the intercepters and their third fight. Their surrenders would, of course, be revoked. The interceptions be withdrawn entirely and the quests proceed as scheduled. I would recommend in this case that the deadline be extended for these quests, but since the characters are frozen I doubt there will be any objection. Everything stay exactly as it is. Some other alternative...? (Obviously I reserve the right to not approve of this carte blanche.) I have one more thing to say, and it's probably not going to sound good no matter how hard I try, so please try not to be offended. It doesn't seem like anyone really wants to be playing the guild game as it is designed. TM complained when CEF used its strength to retaliate against him. Cat complained when multiple other guilds were about to gang up on him. Sauro complains... well, a lot. NiQil quit. Etcetera. As written, the guild game is about conflict. To me, the way people are acting is like playing Starcraft and complaining when someone else attacks the colony you've spent so much effort in building. (This, BTW, is why I play Starcraft cooperatively only.) I have now come to the conclusion that if I want to have any friends around here, I have to not play the game the way it's designed. I have to not do anything nasty to anyone, ever, unless it's in retaliation (and not always even then), and since everyone else will do the same, our armies and characters will be used only against PMGs and whatnot. Which is fine, I can play like that, now that I know. That's how I play games with my wife and friends. But we'll need a lot more nonhostile things to do. The mini-events will help, and the contests were okay, but there needs to be something to do weekly beyond errands. And there will need to be more we can do with armies later on besides attack each other. All right, I'm done ranting. But seeing as how the majority of us have gotten ticked off at the others at some point, and have taken it at least somewhat personally, are we really playing the game we want to be playing? Even Cat? This is the message I sent to Iced, Pitlords, SauroGrenom, and MWB: Indivara's status Indivara surrenders her current fight and denies the scheduling of the intercept. She is no longer on the quest as of scheduling. I am not handing anyone xp and gold for making a mockery of the world event and nullifying any point in it. I can't write tactics for the intercept regardless without knowing if I still have expendables from the second fight. I suggest in the next world event or guild hunt or whatever it is, that delays are covered in the rules rather than 'double-booking' as MWB says happens here. It is entirely possible for Indi to go through an entire wand of CLW against an archer and likewise possible for her to want to use her very expensive toy in either fight circumstances dependent. Let me make something abundantly clear. If Besthirah is awarded a win for a fight that is never to be run because Indi never makes it that far, to sum it up "I quit." That is about as plain as I can make it. I hate being backed into a corner. I hate that the guild system is turning into a play toy of a few people. I hate that it is being given all of the weight in the world to give certain people's characters more benefits over those that are not part of the guild system. We are one step from Guildmaster 1 sending Guildmaster 2's characters on missions just to let them level at whatever rate and by whatever means they wish. See my further coments in the guild opinion thread. @MWB, Cat, and others that know who I am talking to. Friendship is not at issue. I don't hate any of you. I am not really 'angry' with any of you. I enjoy playing games with you. That qualifier in place, if I hate euchre and euchre is what you are playing, I'll grab a martini and sit on the couch to watch rather than joining the game.
MitzaVolchenko 02-03-07, 11:05 AM	Crap. Now I come with a warning label. ;) At least you get a warning label rather than dismissed as a psychotic female :P The above is an attempt at levity. If your sense of humor has been in any way damaged or become non-functional, please disregard it.
TheMagister 02-03-07, 11:52 AM	At least you get a warning label rather than dismissed as a psychotic female :P The above is an attempt at levity. If your sense of humor has been in any way damaged or become non-functional, please disregard it. Yeah, but my title isn't warranted. :looloo:
MitzaVolchenko 02-03-07, 11:54 AM	Pffft! @MQ'ers threads are up.
TheMagister 02-03-07, 11:55 AM	Seriously. Don't quit.
MindWandererB 02-03-07, 02:46 PM	If I hadn't made it abundantly clear, I don't want you to quit, either. I live with two psychotic females. Heck, I married one. They make great gaming buddies.
SauroGrenom 02-03-07, 03:36 PM	MWB, First I must say that I totally agree with Zevox's comments. I don't have a problem with interceptions, or conflict of some sort, or even with loosing in a fare fight. But what TLT did was exploit a poorly written rule the first time it was being play tested to defeat 5 weeks worth of effort in a manner where the guild goal was lost regardless of the outcome of the interception. It's like working all season long to get into the final four game, and you loose because some other team sends a guy to slash the tires on all the busses and none of the teams show up at the game... so everyone looses and there is no champion. You cannot help but feel cheated. I suppose that I must be getting a reputation as a complainer, but you are totally right about one thing. As time goes on, and the rules are revised again and again... and again... each revision gets us farther and farther away from a game that I really want to play. We are more and more looking at a game that I'm willing to play. All of my "complaining" is me trying to keep some sense of fun remaining in the game. Competition is great. Winning is fun. Getting beat is alright if it was fun along the way and I have a fare chance at the next contest. Having previous efforts and "work" destroyed, or having your ability to continue playing the game destroyed is not fun. Quite the opposite really. In my opinion the guild game should be cooperative and competitive in a "safe" way. Competition doesn't have to involve destroying your rivals. Basketball teams don't hurt and maim each other on the court, but they are plenty competitive. The idea, mostly advanced by Cat, that competition can only be achieved by motivating with the possibility of being destroyed if you don't compete is silly and narrow minded. There are lots of games to play, and lots of ways to make games playable. Our guild game could be a lot worse, and it could be worlds better as well. As far as changing things that have already happened, it's too late for that. Leave it as things are. I think we should have this bit of "history" that marks us. History should remain history so we can remember it.
MindWandererB 02-03-07, 05:24 PM	As you wish. Obviously I disagree with the way you feel about it--going into the World Event with less than the full 6 weeks remaining means that you're taking a chance of failing due to a timeout. IMO, it's more like working all season to get into the final four, then having a player get pulled due to an injury, and your only hope of winning is to replace him with someone else who you know is a steroid user and hope he doesn't get caught. We'll try to do better next time.
TheMagister 02-03-07, 06:06 PM	Part of Farig vs. Torel is up in the Battles thread. Pick it apart, but be gentle. It is quite the undertaking. TM
MitzaVolchenko 02-03-07, 11:15 PM	As you wish. Obviously I disagree with the way you feel about it--going into the World Event with less than the full 6 weeks remaining means that you're taking a chance of failing due to a timeout. IMO, it's more like working all season to get into the final four, then having a player get pulled due to an injury, and your only hope of winning is to replace him with someone else who you know is a steroid user and hope he doesn't get caught. We'll try to do better next time. I started on week one, hon. Regardless, my peace has been said. It is nothing personal in this case. *hugs all around*
Erithmu 02-04-07, 12:51 AM	Part of Farig vs. Torel is up in the Battles thread. Pick it apart, but be gentle. It is quite the undertaking. TMI have no problems with choices made or adjustments made. One minor thing is that bleeding doesn't stack as per the description on the bat swarm. Otherwise carry on, this should be interesting.
MindWandererB 02-04-07, 01:57 AM	I started on week one, hon. Regardless, my peace has been said. It is nothing personal in this case. *hugs all around*What I meant was, you started on week 1, but failed and restarted from scratch two weeks later. There was a risk associated with that. Moving on....
MitzaVolchenko 02-04-07, 03:47 AM	What I meant was, you started on week 1, but failed and restarted from scratch two weeks later. There was a risk associated with that. Moving on.... I started on week one and was stuck in a team interleague intercept...don't get me started on that...follow it up with the idiocy of having to wait while 'the paperwork' is sorted out and you just made interception godly. The event was poorly designed The complaints about it were ignored. The rules were changed as Cat saw fit as it went along. Moving on, indeed...I am done with this conversation.
TheMagister 02-04-07, 11:43 AM	The result of the exciting Farig vs. Torel: ECL 6 - City is here. I'm proud of it, and it's a darned good read. TM
Erithmu 02-04-07, 12:10 PM	The result of the exciting Farig vs. Torel: ECL 6 - City is here. I'm proud of it, and it's a darned good read. TM Thats a nice losers reward there ..... spiffy ending ...
TheMagister 02-04-07, 12:18 PM	Thats a nice losers reward there ..... spiffy ending ... :doh: Fixed. I'm off to start my next one! TM
TheMagister 02-04-07, 01:56 PM	Balrog vs. Izumi: ECL 6 - Arena is concluded here. As both players expected: quick and very bloody (thank goodness!). TM
TheMagister 02-04-07, 06:29 PM	Most of Blizzard vs. Zerth is up here, but folks, I've run outta time. The next time I'll be able to pick up this fight is Tuesday night at 6:00 pm US Central time; work was just too busy today. If anyone will finish the fight, I'll be glad to forfeit my credits for it, and there's only about 30 minutes of work left in the fight. If not, I'll finish it when I can, but definitely before the Wednesday deadline, a for-sure for-sure Tuesday night (scout's honor). TM
Maraxus 02-04-07, 06:40 PM	Balrog vs. Izumi: ECL 6 - Arena is concluded here. As both players expected: quick and very bloody (thank goodness!). TM This "Mithral Fullplate +2" is an interesting concept. - I should think about it, once I get my Armor Proficency next level. ;)
Sjiggie 02-04-07, 08:58 PM	@ NiQil nice tactic. I couldn't figure it out what you would use against me but this is a nice tactic of you. I just hate you have deflect arrows on him so my ranged attacks have a 0% chance to hit you. Let's see what the rest of the fight brings.
Rauul 02-04-07, 09:35 PM	Most of Blizzard vs. Zerth is up here, but folks, I've run outta time. The next time I'll be able to pick up this fight is Tuesday night at 6:00 pm US Central time; work was just too busy today. If anyone will finish the fight, I'll be glad to forfeit my credits for it, and there's only about 30 minutes of work left in the fight. If not, I'll finish it when I can, but definitely before the Wednesday deadline, a for-sure for-sure Tuesday night (scout's honor). TM Hi yea, I can finish it for you :) i have some extra time since my one fight this week is against 2 physicals that need 20's to hit.. Weeeeee.. But yea i will finish it for you -Rauul
Macbrea 02-04-07, 09:50 PM	Well, that was bloody.. a stand up fight against Izumi might not have been best choice.. :P
Rauul 02-04-07, 11:58 PM	Varsh (Macbrea) vs. Ikhain al-Habari (Abyssal Stalker) Fight is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11353118&postcount=529).. 43 rounds of arrows... shot me NOW
NiQil 02-05-07, 12:05 AM	Varsh (Macbrea) vs. Ikhain al-Habari (Abyssal Stalker) Fight is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11353118&postcount=529).. 43 rounds of arrows... shot me NOW Heh...you ain't seen nothin' yet. I believe one of my old character's holds the record with something like 212 rounds of arrow combat and CLW healing. Ask Sauro about that...he had to run it LOL. CLW archers can very easily chew through 70 rounds a fight without blinking.
MitzaVolchenko 02-05-07, 12:09 AM	Round 19 Blizzard to throw off balcony (move opponent): r20!+10=30. Zerth Opposed: r7+9+4(stability)=20. Success! 20' Fall: 8 dmg. Zerth ? Move You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple. Don't both have to fall? The movement takes all persons in the grapple into the new square.
NiQil 02-05-07, 12:11 AM	Don't both have to fall? The movement takes all persons in the grapple into the new square. I said in my tactics that I wasn't sure if that was a viable option, since throwing someone in a grapple isn't really covered anywhere. So that's really pitlord ruling there, nothing more. The movement rules you quoted don't really cover the issue.
Rauul 02-05-07, 12:45 AM	I said in my tactics that I wasn't sure if that was a viable option, since throwing someone in a grapple isn't really covered anywhere. So that's really pitlord ruling there, nothing more. The movement rules you quoted don't really cover the issue. Acually After reading the grapple rules and there is a feat to move a target (bull rush and Improved bull rush) If there is No problems, i will back the Fight up to Round 13 (when grapple started) and continue from there as a melee battle on the Balcony.. Thats what i get when i read the tactics anyways.. Please let me know if this sounds reasonable to both, within the next 24 hours (before the dead line) -Rauul
Abyssal Stalker 02-05-07, 12:55 AM	I said in my tactics that I wasn't sure if that was a viable option, since throwing someone in a grapple isn't really covered anywhere. So that's really pitlord ruling there, nothing more. The movement rules you quoted don't really cover the issue. I think it is covered in the Rules of the Game articles "All about grappling". I can't check, the firewall at work blocks the page.
Abyssal Stalker 02-05-07, 12:57 AM	Varsh (Macbrea) vs. Ikhain al-Habari (Abyssal Stalker) Fight is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11353118&postcount=529).. 43 rounds of arrows... shot me NOW I'm fine with the way you ran it. Thanks, I knew it would be painful! If you want to blame someone for it, blame Macbrea for creating Varsh... ;)
Rauul 02-05-07, 02:22 AM	Zerth (Sjiggie) vs. Blizzard (Niqil): ECL4 - City I finished the battle as i Saw it should be... I preserved the rules of the game.And the roles made by the Original Pitlord, I figured i would get it finished So both could look at it and see and get a chance to cuss me out.. Here it is (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11391291&postcount=535)
NiQil 02-05-07, 07:48 AM	Zerth (Sjiggie) vs. Blizzard (Niqil): ECL4 - City I finished the battle as i Saw it should be... I preserved the rules of the game.And the roles made by the Original Pitlord, I figured i would get it finished So both could look at it and see and get a chance to cuss me out.. Here it is (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11391291&postcount=535) One very large problem...my tactics never called for a straight up melee fight unless my opponent had no weapons left. If the throwing him over the side option will not work, then instead of starting a grapple, use the below melee tactics to engage him in melee on the balcony. The entire above strategy assumes that I will be able to make it up the wall myself before I am engaged in melee. If I am engaged in melee before I can make it up the wall, then forgo everything above, draw my adamantine waraxe, and attempt to sunder whatever weapon he is wielding (hopefully the warhammer). Continue to attempt to sunder his melee weapons until he is out of them. He can then either use his bows or arrows as improvised weapons, or surrender. If he chooses the improvised route, then attack in melee normally. So if you could fix that, that would be super. A sundering we will go, a sundering we will go...
TelinArtho 02-05-07, 10:40 AM	Looks like I screwed myself up in that battle versus Torel... stowing the bow on the end there could have cost me the fight... Anyway - solid run TM. Solid.
Sjiggie 02-05-07, 11:48 AM	Zerth (Sjiggie) vs. Blizzard (Niqil): ECL4 - City I finished the battle as i Saw it should be... I preserved the rules of the game.And the roles made by the Original Pitlord, I figured i would get it finished So both could look at it and see and get a chance to cuss me out.. Here it is (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11391291&postcount=535) On part of my tactics is also left out of the fight. After I've hit him with the dissolving weapon hit. I wanted to 5ft step back and use my psilike ability sonic energy ray to deal another 2d6 sonic damage to Blizzard. If you edit the fight please use this part of my tactic also. Thanks
Rauul 02-05-07, 11:52 AM	One very large problem...my tactics never called for a straight up melee fight unless my opponent had no weapons left. So if you could fix that, that would be super. A sundering we will go, a sundering we will go... Ok fixed.. Better luck next time.
Sjiggie 02-05-07, 11:54 AM	I just saw you editted the fight no need to edit it again for using the psilike ability. Thanks for the run
Rauul 02-05-07, 11:57 AM	On part of my tactics is also left out of the fight. After I've hit him with the dissolving weapon hit. I wanted to 5ft step back and use my psilike ability sonic energy ray to deal another 2d6 sonic damage to Blizzard. If you edit the fight please use this part of my tactic also. Thanks Done and done.. thanks to Mitza for pointing out that the Waraxe ignores the warhammers hardness.. Still no change in the outcome..
TelinArtho 02-05-07, 03:39 PM	Just to give an update. The FFA in the sewer is well underway and is currently in round 12. No one is dead yet though... not sure how soon that'll happen either... I probably won't get to do the team fight today, but I should have enough time tomorrow.
Maraxus 02-05-07, 04:22 PM	Is there any fix rule, about psionic items (specificly dorjes) with metapsionic powers (specificly enlarge power)? Because: Enlarge does not increase the PP cost, therefor a certain character asumes, that you can add it for free. Question: -Is this possible at all? -If so, does the user of the dorje have to expend his psionic focus in order to use the item?
MindWandererB 02-05-07, 04:26 PM	Yeah, after much debate, we finally allowed it. And yes, it is free in some cases, and doesn't even cost you your focus. Whereupon dorjes of Enlarged Energy Ray and Enlarged Crystal Shard became much more popular.
hogarth 02-05-07, 04:26 PM	Putting Enlarged powers in dorjes (or power stones) is the same cost as putting non-Enlarged powers in. No psionic focus is required, either. Yes, it's kind of a silly ruling. Is there any fix rule, about psionic items (specificly dorjes) with metapsionic powers (specificly enlarge power)? Because: Enlarge does not increase the PP cost, therefor a certain character asumes, that you can add it for free. Question: -Is this possible at all? -If so, does the user of the dorje have to expend his psionic focus in order to use the item?
Maraxus 02-05-07, 05:11 PM	I wonder, why you came to this. There are no rules written, that you can metapsionicly enhance items at all, therefor any house-ruling should be that way, that it makes most sense.
hogarth 02-05-07, 05:15 PM	I wonder, why you came to this. There are no rules written, that you can metapsionicly enhance items at all, therefor any house-ruling should be that way, that it makes most sense. I thought so too at one time, but read it and weep: Psionic Items and Metapsionic Powers With the right psionic item creation feat, you can store a metapsionic power in a power stone, psionic tattoo, or dorje. Level limits for psionic tattoos apply to the power’s higher metapsionic level. A character doesn’t need the appropriate metapsionic feat to activate an item in which a metapsionic power is stored, but does need the metapsionic feat to create such an item.
Maraxus 02-05-07, 05:53 PM	Uh, I thought, I had checkt everywhere, it could be. :) PS: Balthazar Picsou vs. Tracey McVitie is done. Ignore the "pitlords insults" at the bottom.
hogarth 02-05-07, 07:29 PM	Uh, I thought, I had checkt everywhere, it could be. :) PS: Balthazar Picsou vs. Tracey McVitie is done. Ignore the "pitlords insults" at the bottom. Balthazar Picsou doesn't count his success in arena wins, but in sweet, sweet gold! http://images.forbes.com/media/lists/fictional/2005/top_6.jpg I'll fix the point buy. Thanks for pitlording!
MitzaVolchenko 02-06-07, 07:52 AM	I am trying to post my fights now after staring at the board not responding for the last several hours (how long is that maintenance cycle anyway?!). Gladys vs. Tralamin is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11402699&postcount=539) If it continues to lag this badly, I am sorry, I am going to have to take a nap. I haven't really slept yet ;)
orsono 02-06-07, 09:59 AM	@Telin hey the suspence is killing me here!! on that 4vs4
TelinArtho 02-06-07, 10:14 AM	You think it is for you... I'm still working on it. Round 21 now. Still everyone standing...
orsono 02-06-07, 10:55 AM	@Telin You have got to be kidding me! I don't get how this is going so long without any deaths. I can't wait for that post
UserNamer 02-06-07, 12:49 PM	I am trying to post my fights now after staring at the board not responding for the last several hours (how long is that maintenance cycle anyway?!). Gladys vs. Tralamin is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11402699&postcount=539) If it continues to lag this badly, I am sorry, I am going to have to take a nap. I haven't really slept yet ;) My tactics say "use run-n-gun tactics" and "always stay 130ft from him". In round 7, I single move away and shoot with MM. Why would I want to do that if my opponent can one-hit me? I mean, I'm not blind to see that he has psionic weapon+psychic strike. I would appriciate it if you could edit the fight, there is no need for a re-run I think. And I would be thrilled if you got still give me my poilitical carreer bonus, even though I haven't linked it, I will do so in the future. EDIT: And my MM is 3rd caster lvl.
Maraxus 02-06-07, 12:49 PM	Looks like the 1vs1vs1vs1 fight is about toget posted after 53 rounds. ...Wow, imagine a real 4 vs 4 fight I's suggest on a special map. eight players, creating military-style tactics. ...Hey, one could make a "capture the flag" style fight out of it, then...
UserNamer 02-06-07, 12:55 PM	Looks like the 1vs1vs1vs1 fight is about toget posted after 53 rounds. ...Wow, imagine a real 4 vs 4 fight I's suggest on a special map. eight players, creating military-style tactics. ...Hey, one could make a "capture the flag" style fight out of it, then... for 1 credit (and a lot of fun):p
TelinArtho 02-06-07, 01:09 PM	Don't get your hopes up... it still isn't done. That said - it is worth 2 credits since it has 4 combatants. And I am expecting it will last another 40+ rounds until Ghashara's wand of CLW runs out unless Ghashara gets REAL lucky and crits with her +5 attack bonus versus Sabra's AC of 22. I just need to post it so that I can do a quick number of charges count...
hogarth 02-06-07, 01:22 PM	Telin -- I know you don't like to use maps, so could you mention in the fight (either in the text or in the subject line) which map the fight took place on? It's not immediately obvious to the casual reader.
Etiquette_Gnome 02-06-07, 01:25 PM	And I know this is probably a bad time to ask, but are you checking to see if any of the characters actually got set on fire, since that also does 1d6 fire damage per round until they put it out (on top of the 1d3 for the fire being on them)? From what I can tell, the way the power works is that they take the 1d3 damage, and the Reflex save is to verify whether or not they catch on fire for 1d6 per round until they spend a full round action to get another Reflex save to put it out. Also, the Vigor is supposed to be shared with my Psicrystal so that the Share Pain lasts/works longer...
McJarvis 02-06-07, 01:30 PM	I'm going to be late with my fight this week. Will do it tonight after work.
TelinArtho 02-06-07, 01:47 PM	Sabra (Etiquette_Gnome) vs. Sybil (MitzaVolchenko) vs. Ghashara (orsono) vs. Maelosh (Hrothmund) [All vs All] is up. The fight takes place in the sewer. If I edit it - I will try to include that - but bear in mind both posts are pushing the character limit already... @EG - the power describes when the save is to negate the damage and when it is to set fire to the target: You pyrokinetically control the intensity or movements of one fire source. A nonmagical fire source can be controlled if it is equal to or smaller than the maximum size of fire you can control according to your manifester level, as noted on the accompanying table. You can freely switch control between fire sources, or change the nature of your control, while you maintain concentration, but only one specified change (keeping a fire burning, animating it, or altering its size) can be made to one fire source in a round. When your control over a fire source lapses, that fire immediately returns to its original state (or goes out if it has no fuel or has been moved away from its original location). With this power, you can artificially keep a fire burning that would normally expire for lack of fuel; even dousing a controlled flame with water does not put it out (though completely submerging the flame would). Normally, a creature at risk of catching on fire can avoid this fate by making a DC 15 Reflex saving throw, with success indicating that the fire has gone out. If the fire is one that has been kept burning by the use of control flames, then the DC of the Reflex save needed to put out the flames increases to 25. This power also enables you to make a fire move as if it were a living creature. You can animate only a naturally burning fire; if you attempt to animate one that has been increased or decreased in size by your augmentation of this power, the fire immediately returns to its original size. An animated fire moves at a speed of 30 feet. A fire that moves away from its fuel or its original location dies as soon as your control over it lapses. An animated fire can enter any square, even if a creature already occupies it. If an animated fire enters a square occupied by a creature, that creature can make a Reflex save to get out of the way (DC 11 + the number of dice of damage the fire does + your Int modifier if you are a psion or your Cha modifier if you are a wilder). A successful Reflex save moves the creature to the nearest unoccupied square. The flames deal the indicated damage to any creature that is either on fire or surrounded by the flames (in the fire’s space); see the accompanying table). At the start of your turn, the animated fire deals damage to any creature in its space, and the creature catches on fire unless it makes a Reflex save (DC as noted above). A victim on fire takes 1d6 points of damage each round. Additional rounds in the same space as the animated fire occupies mean additional chances of ignition. The damage from multiple normal fires stacks, but the victim gets a saving throw each round to negate each fire. It is possible to switch control from the animated fire (causing it to disappear) to intensify f lames that are already burning (thus denying the foe Ref lex saves after the first). As to vigor being shared - I don't see that in your tactics at all.
Etiquette_Gnome 02-06-07, 01:54 PM	Ah, there's the part on the Control Flames, thanks for pointing that out to me. I meant that to be in the tactics, a typo as it were (forgot to include "with my psicrystal" for that sentence). If you look at prior fights I had him share Vigor before. *bows* Thanks for running the fight, because I can tell that thing was a pain and a half to run.
TelinArtho 02-06-07, 01:58 PM	Given that you still needed to whittle through another 20 charges of his wand, I can make this change for you, but it is going to have to wait until after I have started and finished the other fight this week. And I will not hold it over for it. I wouldn't hold your breath on it changing the outcome though.
Etiquette_Gnome 02-06-07, 02:02 PM	*nods* An acceptable decision, and will appreciate you making that change if you have time, as I understand not wanting to hold it over.
orsono 02-06-07, 02:05 PM	@ Gnome - you are going to make pay more money for that win huh... no love for a sexy druid chick :-( @Telin- Wow Telin Awelsome fight!! that must of been hell to keep track of. thanks for running that.
TelinArtho 02-06-07, 02:08 PM	Oh - and if someone wants to go through and total up arrows/slings/people thrown, fired or otherwise used, please do.
Etiquette_Gnome 02-06-07, 02:14 PM	And I must applaud the fact you actually had Sabra light his torch at the start of the fight rather than have it assumed to be lit upon entering. And because of your attention to details, Sabra has truly spent money for the first time now. I shall now go off to mourn the loss of my hand-crafted torch and the half a copper spent to craft it.
Macbrea 02-06-07, 02:19 PM	Faetylec vs Caller in the Darkness is up.
Abyssal Stalker 02-06-07, 02:23 PM	Auburn vs Zassl done. D&D is all about balance.
Erithmu 02-06-07, 02:29 PM	Faetylec vs Caller in the Darkness is up. I hate to be the one that does this ... but this fight is over in round 15. The CitD psychic crush DC includes the modification for the +4 to will saves. It is listed under the ** in the description. Featylec fails that save.
Etiquette_Gnome 02-06-07, 02:32 PM	@ Gnome - you are going to make pay more money for that win huh... no love for a sexy druid chick :-( Hey, I'm a sexy elven stud with years of experience, I have just as much right to be loved. :D And besides, it's all a part of my plan to have everyone spend more money than me. Notice my character's avatar looks like he's made of gold ;)
Macbrea 02-06-07, 02:44 PM	I hate to be the one that does this ... but this fight is over in round 15. The CitD psychic crush DC includes the modification for the +4 to will saves. It is listed under the ** in the description. Featylec fails that save. Bah.. I am blind! Ah, well.
MitzaVolchenko 02-06-07, 03:05 PM	Unfortunately I was tired enough when I started watching the boards not post for me that I failed to save everything...afterall it was open on my desktop...yeah so redoing fights and getting them up as quickly as possible. If you have a comment, PM its entirety to me. I will not be digging through this thread until everything I have to run is posted.
Zevox 02-06-07, 03:40 PM	Faetylec vs Caller in the Darkness is up. Ah, shoot. So close. As usual, Featylec's one biggest weakness, his will save, is his downfall. And after that natural 20 on the first save too... *sigh* oh well. That seems to be his luck most of the time. Thanks for the run. Zevox
Macbrea 02-06-07, 04:07 PM	That monster is pretty powerful overall. Not sure I would send one against a party of four 9th level characters.
MitzaVolchenko 02-06-07, 04:15 PM	ECL 3's are up. Working on finishing MQ's.
Erithmu 02-06-07, 04:23 PM	That monster is pretty powerful overall. Not sure I would send one against a party of four 9th level characters. Acutally I think I have fought one of those in a group of 4 lvl 9s. The low AC doesn't help it much, and the saves are very make-able. Then have the ability that if one person goes down the cleric can heal while the other two keep pressure. Force effects work really well (CL9 MM, spiritual weapon) That and I think our Power attacking Dwarf Psi war charger bypassed his miss chance (Leap attack + PA + Deep Impact + Ebberon Action points = hits alot, for lots of pain)* *This is the same dwarf who crit a Cerebrilith for 110hp at lvl 10. Enlarged Dwarfs with a DC Great waraxe and full power attacking w/ Deep impact = nasty
SauroGrenom 02-06-07, 04:29 PM	MWB and Mitza, So I'm wondering if I should make a post in the fights thread for the non-fight/non-interception that took place this week. What's up? I don't want to get slapped with a late fight or penalties for not posting a non battle. What should I do here? Cat, Do you have an opinion on this? Cheers, Sauro
TelinArtho 02-06-07, 04:32 PM	Treetall Oakleg (hogarth) and Durin (Maraxus) vs Rubicanti (TheMagister) and Wisp (coolz) [Team Fight] is up. @SG - I would PM Pitlords and point him to the post that Mitza made where she surrendered in week 2 of her mission to nullify the need for the interception this week.
waywreth 02-06-07, 04:32 PM	So would it be appropriate to put on my character sheet the dice beat me not Rauul? Damn you dice! *shakes his fist*
TelinArtho 02-06-07, 04:39 PM	Gah... Well, it looks like I need to modify that team fight because I didn't see the share pain prebuff on Wisp. If there's any other comments, let me know.
MitzaVolchenko 02-06-07, 04:49 PM	So would it be appropriate to put on my character sheet the dice beat me not Rauul? Damn you dice! *shakes his fist* It would be accurate :P
hogarth 02-06-07, 05:03 PM	Gah... Well, it looks like I need to modify that team fight because I didn't see the share pain prebuff on Wisp. If there's any other comments, let me know. Telin, looking at your new rolls I think you're misunderstanding overchanneling. It increases your manifester level, but (unlike wild surges) it doesn't give you any "free" power points for augmenting. So it's impossible for Wisp to do a 6d6 Dissipating Touch (6 pp) + a two 4d6 Energy Stuns (6 pp each) -- he only has 12 pp for this fight.
TelinArtho 02-06-07, 05:04 PM	Gah... Well, it looks like I need to modify that team fight because I didn't see the share pain prebuff on Wisp. If there's any other comments, let me know. Fight has been altered. That extra round with Wisp up almost made all of the difference - a very close fight actually. Let me know if there's issues. For the FFA, I won't get the chance to edit it today - so if it gets done, it will be tomorrow. Still no promises though.
TelinArtho 02-06-07, 05:05 PM	Except he's on his 3rd fight and only used 12pp in his first two...
hogarth 02-06-07, 05:09 PM	Except he's on his 3rd fight and only used 12pp in his first two... Ah...I see the problem: he incorrectly marked himself as using zero pp in his first fight. He actually used 12 power points in the first fight of the cycle (overchanneled Dissipating Touch, overchanneled Energy Ray). Here's the fight: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11134695#post11134695
Rauul 02-06-07, 05:11 PM	So would it be appropriate to put on my character sheet the dice beat me not Rauul? Damn you dice! *shakes his fist* I would agree with that.. I was Extremely lucky..:embarrass But I don't wanna rematch :P
TelinArtho 02-06-07, 05:14 PM	Ah...I see the problem: he incorrectly marked himself as using zero pp in his first fight. He actually used 12 power points in the first fight of the cycle (overchanneled Dissipating Touch, overchanneled Energy Ray). Here's the fight: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11134695#post11134695 Well, then there's much to do about nothing... You were all on your third fight and that extra couple of rounds wouldn't have mattered anyway since none of you used further expendables. I think I prefer it being a close fight though :) /d
Maraxus 02-06-07, 07:04 PM	Auburn vs Zassl done. D&D is all about balance. "Bad luck that he doesn't have a clue of Buba's whereabouts and Buba is hit also by the tentacles." :devil: That's colateral damage. Thinks like this happen. :devil: My greatest fear was, that Auburn turns into a Baboon or something else climby. Or that my levitate runs out and I get raped by her tentacles. ;)
TheMagister 02-06-07, 07:20 PM	@Telin - May I please ask why Rubicanti didn't use his Dorje of Hammer for extra melee damage as I asked? Also, in round 7, you forgot to have Rubi take total defense while rising from prone, something that I specifically asked for (+6 dodge to AC is a beautiful thing!) Further, Durin was supposed to be avoided in favor of Treetall, for obvious reasons. After rising in round 7 and 5' stepping, Rubi is in prime position for tumbling/5' stepping/whatever to threaten Treetall with melee attacks, and would hopefully put him down with a single unarmed strike. A single hit on Treetall and Rubi is suddenly in a much better position (not dodging spells; curse those natural 1s!). These edits are all at the end of the fight, and quickdraw makes the drawing/using of the dorje of Hammer a really easy thing to add in. Please? TM
hogarth 02-06-07, 07:30 PM	These edits are all at the end of the fight, and quickdraw makes the drawing/using of the dorje of Hammer a really easy thing to add in. Please? TM Telin -- if you're making those edits, please remember to take out Wisp's second Energy Stun. Also, note this part of Treetall's tactics: If it looks like the summoned hippogriffs are successfully attacking Wisp or Rubicanti, Oakleg will summon another hippogriff by sacrificing Flaming Sphere. Also, don't forget that Wild Shaping would heal Treetall by 5 hp.
Etiquette_Gnome 02-06-07, 07:48 PM	@ Mitza - My 3FC should already be in proper format, at the top of the character sheet right below his prebuff information. I've seen several other characters with that arrangement, so I assumed that to be an acceptable placement. Also, I keep my spells readied up-to-date for that fight in regards to how many I have available.
Maraxus 02-06-07, 07:55 PM	Weeee complaining round: :rolleyes: ;) Where are the rolls, it makes it a lot easier to see, if everything is correct. Round 6: What's the bears -2 to attack for? Not flanking? (Note, that the flanking bonus is in again in round 8) Apart from that only 1 thing: Durin will rage once below 20 HP (Because he can't manifest a 15 hp Vigor)
MindWandererB 02-06-07, 08:54 PM	MWB and Mitza, So I'm wondering if I should make a post in the fights thread for the non-fight/non-interception that took place this week. What's up? I don't want to get slapped with a late fight or penalties for not posting a non battle. What should I do here? Cat, Do you have an opinion on this? Cheers, SauroI PMed Pitlords about this but got no response yet. I think that since everyone is clear on what's going on, you should be fine. I haven't readied Besthrah for next week yet though, just in case.
MitzaVolchenko 02-06-07, 09:44 PM	I PMed Pitlords about this but got no response yet. I think that since everyone is clear on what's going on, you should be fine. I haven't readied Besthrah for next week yet though, just in case. Indivara never makes it past her week two fight. There is no week three fight, not even a surrender.
McJarvis 02-06-07, 09:55 PM	Looks like I won't be getting to my fight after all. I'll post the tactics sent to me in the battles thread & inform Pitlords it will be held over. I'm also going to be taking myself off the active pitlords list.... sigh.
Zevox 02-06-07, 11:12 PM	Looks like I won't be getting to my fight after all. I'll post the tactics sent to me in the battles thread & inform Pitlords it will be held over. I'm also going to be taking myself off the active pitlords list.... sigh. Ah well. I guess I have to take Annalina off my active list next week to accommodate that. Oh well, no big deal. But looking at the tactics... LOL. @ Hirumajoe - Looking at your tactics, it looks like he made a pretty fundamental error there (well, two, but one is bigger). Smokesticks only create smoke in a 10' radius - Istima can prevent him from hiding just by riding right up into it :D . The other error was that line powers travel along the line between squares if fired straight forward, affecting all squares it touches, so if hes fires it straight down the passage he affects every square in it. But then thats not as bad as the impossibility of the hiding plan. Zevox
Vathelokai 02-06-07, 11:47 PM	Auburn vs Zassl done. D&D is all about balance. Had a feeling it would be a matter of who got the black tentacles off first. Question: Auburn has just become frozen at lv. 10. She is ready for fight 3 of her cycle. Is she doomed to be frozen mid cycle? Do I have to pull a guild stunt or RP only mini-quest? Can she fight in a challenge match?
Zevox 02-07-07, 12:04 AM	Question: Auburn has just become frozen at lv. 10. She is ready for fight 3 of her cycle. Is she doomed to be frozen mid cycle? Do I have to pull a guild stunt or RP only mini-quest? Can she fight in a challenge match? She can do any of the above - RP-only MQ, challenge match, and Guild stuff are all ways to get her through the 3rd fight; or you could just leave her frozen mid-cycle and finish the cycle when the Iron Man ends and the Thaw comes. Zevox
Maraxus 02-07-07, 12:29 AM	Hey, you could challenge Noko, she is frozen between 2 and 3, too, and would like to spend the 9000+ gp in my pocket. Hm, could a free activity be made on such a day, too? I don't know why, but I started to gather arrows in the last fight, which needs 2 free acivities.
webscav 02-07-07, 12:30 AM	Looking at the first fight I have here with Grunt shouldn't I have the crafting income?http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11405262&postcount=543
Vathelokai 02-07-07, 01:38 AM	Hey, you could challenge Noko, she is frozen between 2 and 3, too, and would like to spend the 9000+ gp in my pocket. Hm, could a free activity be made on such a day, too? I don't know why, but I started to gather arrows in the last fight, which needs 2 free acivities. Sure! Auburn is ready to go. I'll send a message to Pitlords.
MitzaVolchenko 02-07-07, 02:34 AM	Looking at the first fight I have here with Grunt shouldn't I have the crafting income?http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11405262&postcount=543 Done.
Macbrea 02-07-07, 08:43 AM	Doesn't two 10th level frozen characters fighting each other in the arena result in no reward or advancement of the week?
Maraxus 02-07-07, 08:45 AM	No reward clearly. The rest - I'm not sure.
Erithmu 02-07-07, 09:05 AM	bragging rights .... *shrugs*
Zevox 02-07-07, 09:09 AM	Doesn't two 10th level frozen characters fighting each other in the arena result in no reward or advancement of the week? No reward, but the 3FC does advance. If they weren't in week 3, they'd just mark of the used stuff as temporarily unavailable (until end of cycle). Thats the way its been done with frozen characters doing Guild fights, and theres no reason a challenge match would be any different. Zevox
Macbrea 02-07-07, 09:14 AM	so, basicly.. they are paying 2 credits to surrender. To have some person gain 2 credits for running the fight? There is no real reason for them to actually fight the fight as it doesn't effect anything. There should be a rule stating 'If you hit a frozen league your 3FC is concluded.' It's a waste of resources to do otherwise.
TelinArtho 02-07-07, 10:24 AM	Meh - Kraegin used his last fight to go "off with a bang" - having a climactic fight to "end" his pre-ECL10 career. I'll review the comments from TM and the rest about the fight and edit them in here. Stay tuned. EDIT: May I please ask why Rubicanti didn't use his Dorje of Hammer for extra melee damage as I asked? Also, in round 7, you forgot to have Rubi take total defense while rising from prone, something that I specifically asked for (+6 dodge to AC is a beautiful thing!) Further, Durin was supposed to be avoided in favor of Treetall, for obvious reasons. After rising in round 7 and 5' stepping, Rubi is in prime position for tumbling/5' stepping/whatever to threaten Treetall with melee attacks, and would hopefully put him down with a single unarmed strike. A single hit on Treetall and Rubi is suddenly in a much better position (not dodging spells; curse those natural 1s!). These edits are all at the end of the fight, and quickdraw makes the drawing/using of the dorje of Hammer a really easy thing to add in. Please? Sorry I forgot about taking total defense. That is specifically there, so no issue in resolving that. As for using the dorje, I frankly didn't understand when you wanted to use it. However, not understanding doesn't give me leave to ignore it. I will edit it in as his action for round 6. Unfortunately, that means you won't be taking advantage of Durin's stunned horse. As to tumbling past Durin, you would need to make checks against DC15 (Wumpus), DC17 (Bear), DC19 (Durin). If his horse is still up, you would have to tumble through both the horse's and Durin's area - meaning you need to add a DC25 and DC27 check in there too. I suppose it is in your tactics though, so I can edit it in while I'm at it. Where are the rolls, it makes it a lot easier to see, if everything is correct. Round 6: What's the bears -2 to attack for? Not flanking? (Note, that the flanking bonus is in again in round 8) Apart from that only 1 thing: Durin will rage once below 20 HP (Because he can't manifest a 15 hp Vigor) As usual, the rolls are at the CoCo roller. For the round 6 attacks, the bear was originally targetting Rubicanti and gaining a flank advantage. In the edit that I made, the bear wanted to fight Wisp - so the -2 you see is the adjustment from the online roller's value. In round 8, Rubi is not flanked: . w d . . r . b . So no flanking bonus.
hogarth 02-07-07, 10:46 AM	Just a reminder Telin -- don't forget my complaints! -remove second energy stun -have Treetall summon another hippogriff
TelinArtho 02-07-07, 11:08 AM	Don't worry - I didn't forget. Any time I say that I will "note it in case I need to edit the fight" - I actually do note it in the file I use. Anyway, the fight has been edited. Not much has changed other than the victory is more resounding for Treetall and Durin. And to preempt TM's note to add in the Potion of Hide from Animals, bear in mind that the spell would end if he touched an animal. Tumbling through another's space most certainly would have an accidental touch - especially with a failed tumble check.
hogarth 02-07-07, 11:11 AM	And to preempt TM's note to add in the Potion of Hide from Animals, bear in mind that the spell would end if he touched an animal. Also, Hide from Animals ends if he attacks any creature (including Treetall or Durin).
TelinArtho 02-07-07, 11:15 AM	Right - but with the adjustment - he didn't desire to actually attack Durin. So if he drank the potion, he wouldn't have attacked to that point. Once he's on the other side- the animals are more restricted because of the tight quarters. Come to think of it - the DC for the tumble should've been +2 also for the slippery floor...
Hirumajoe 02-07-07, 11:23 AM	Ah well. I guess I have to take Annalina off my active list next week to accommodate that. Oh well, no big deal. But looking at the tactics... LOL. @ Hirumajoe - Looking at your tactics, it looks like he made a pretty fundamental error there (well, two, but one is bigger). Smokesticks only create smoke in a 10' radius - Istima can prevent him from hiding just by riding right up into it :D . The other error was that line powers travel along the line between squares if fired straight forward, affecting all squares it touches, so if hes fires it straight down the passage he affects every square in it. But then thats not as bad as the impossibility of the hiding plan. Zevox Hmm... A bank of fog billows out from the point you designate. The fog obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature within 5 feet has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker can’t use sight to locate the target). I guess I was thinking that you'd always have 5' of smoke between you and Valen, even if you walk up next to the grate. Its a 10' radius, so all 4 squares surrounding the grate, 2 on each side. I was reading the description and thinking that if you're in the fog, in an adjacent square, you'd have concealment. If you have a full square of fog between you and the target, then you have full concealment. That certainly may be an incorrect reading, at which point I admit the above tactics fall apart pretty badly. Ah well, live and learn. As for the line down the middle, yeah, that I didn't realize. And pretty much makes the above point moot. I suppose I could've tried buffing skate and actually going around the corner each time. But yeah, as I said in the tactics, I wasn't expecting to win. I figured if I even put up an energy resistance effect, you'd figure it out for only 1 or 2 pp and some energy rays and then proceed to blast me with whatever resistance I didn't have. I just did't think I could do enough damage fast enough to beat out that Energy Bolt death timer when I'm looking at mounted combat and 29-ish AC. So I needed something... unusual to try. :)
Zevox 02-07-07, 11:46 AM	so, basicly.. they are paying 2 credits to surrender. To have some person gain 2 credits for running the fight? There is no real reason for them to actually fight the fight as it doesn't effect anything. There should be a rule stating 'If you hit a frozen league your 3FC is concluded.' It's a waste of resources to do otherwise. You know, some of us do enjoy the battles and writing tactics for them for their own sake too, which is a reason to actually fight the fight ;) . Zevox
Hirumajoe 02-07-07, 11:51 AM	So in an attempt to edify myself in regards to targeting rules (just so I don't make certain basic mistakes again...) I came across the Rules of the Game: Reading Spell Descriptions part Five: Line: A line's point of origin is one corner of the caster's space. (If the caster's space fills more than one square, you can use the optional rule suggested for cones to select the point of origin.) The line extends from the point of origin in any direction the caster chooses and reaches as far as the spell's range (or until its line of effect is blocked). The rules regarding lines are somewhat muddled; however, a line affects anything in a square that the line passes though or touches. So, if you send a line straight down a gridline, it will affect the squares to either side of the line. Some people like to limit a line's effects to a width of 5 feet. If so, the caster chooses which side of the line gets affected when a line passes between two squares. (Choose a side when you aim the spell, and once you choose, you have to stick with that side.) Cone: A cone is a quarter circle that extends from the caster's space for the distance stated in the entry. If the caster's space fills only one square, the cone can start at any corner of the space (that corner is the spell's point of origin). The rules are silent about what to do when the caster's space fills more than one square. I recommend you pick any grid intersection on the outer edge of the space as the point of origin for the spell. Alternatively, you can require the caster to choose a corner of his space as the point of origin. Out of curiosity, which of the house rules mentioned in the above are used? I'm assuming the limiting a line to a 5' width is not, given Zevox's comments, but how about the point of origin for the spell? Its described as an optional rule to chose any intersection point on a large sized caster (as in the case of a mounted psion). Edit: Also, if an effect just touches one corner of your square (say on a diagonal) are you affected?
Zevox 02-07-07, 12:38 PM	Out of curiosity, which of the house rules mentioned in the above are used? I'm assuming the limiting a line to a 5' width is not, given Zevox's comments, but how about the point of origin for the spell? Its described as an optional rule to chose any intersection point on a large sized caster (as in the case of a mounted psion). Certainly the 5' width limit isn't used, as it is a total house rule, as the article describes. The point-of-origin thing I have no idea about - I've always figured that was the way it worked regardless. How else would you determine the point-of-origin for a line from a large caster if not from any of the intersection points available to it? :confused: Edit: Also, if an effect just touches one corner of your square (say on a diagonal) are you affected? Certainly. Thats how a line works, isn't it? If it touches a part of a square, it affects it. Which is why it affects the 10' width when fired straight. Zevox
Hirumajoe 02-07-07, 01:01 PM	Certainly the 5' width limit isn't used, as it is a total house rule, as the article describes. The point-of-origin thing I have no idea about - I've always figured that was the way it worked regardless. How else would you determine the point-of-origin for a line from a large caster if not from any of the intersection points available to it? :confused: From one of the four corners of the 10' square he occupies? He calls it an optional rule, but he doesn't specificy which interpretation is optional. Given that my assumptions earlier in my tactics seem to be off, I thought I'd get them fully clarified. Just to avoid further mistakes. :) Certainly. Thats how a line works, isn't it? If it touches a part of a square, it affects it. Which is why it affects the 10' width when fired straight. Zevox You can count diagonally across a square, but remember that every second diagonal counts as 2 squares of distance. If the far edge of a square is within the spell’s area, anything within that square is within the spell’s area. If the spell’s area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell. Well, its not quite that obvious. If you only touch a corner, then isn't the far edge not within the spell's area of effect? If touching only a corner is required, then suddenly the caster is going to start being affected by his own lines. I.e. 1) Line effect starts on corner of caster's square. 2) Any square who's corner it touched by the effect is affected. 3) Therefore, caster's square is affected. That seems like a rediculous interpretation to me, so I just wanted to double check.
MindWandererB 02-07-07, 01:01 PM	You know, I never thought I'd see the day where a 2nd edition grid rule actually worked better. (The 1e-2e Lightning Bolt was either a 5x80 rectangle or a 10x40 one. Although firing that at an angle was tricky to figure out--and then there was the stupid "bouncing off the wall" thing.)
Hirumajoe 02-07-07, 01:04 PM	You know, I never thought I'd see the day where a 2nd edition grid rule actually worked better. (The 1e-2e Lightning Bolt was either a 5x80 rectangle or a 10x40 one. Although firing that at an angle was tricky to figure out--and then there was the stupid "bouncing off the wall" thing.) Ahh... Those were the good old days. I remember the forked lightning bolt option. Much better than the amazing vari-width undefined lines we have today. As far as I can tell, it can go from 10' to 0' wide in a single casting. :D
Maraxus 02-07-07, 01:14 PM	In round 8, Rubi is not flanked: . w d . . r . b . So no flanking bonus. *check* Ah, I did not know that, but you are right. I though: we are adjected to opposite corners (d to the upper right, b to the lower left), so we flank, but it looks like this is not enough. The above situation is funny. Would the bear place himself exactly on the middle between his square and that one too his right, he would always flank his target with either alli, know matter where the target goes. But since you can't move even a tiny bit forward, without being warped 5ft in that direction, he has to dance back and forth, too. :)
MindWandererB 02-07-07, 01:16 PM	You can count diagonally across a square, but remember that every second diagonal counts as 2 squares of distance. If the far edge of a square is within the spell’s area, anything within that square is within the spell’s area. If the spell’s area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell.This is true for everything but lines, although the rules don't say so very clearly. If it were true for lines, then the only way a line would be functional at all is if you shoot it at a 45-degree angle. This is hard to explain without a diagram, but let's take this to start with: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Mage,M,13,29,Ca ster;b=Not,M,13,38,Victim;los=13,29,13,4 5,4The lines on the left don't reach the far edge of any square, ever, so by that quote, they do nothing, and don't hurt the blue guy. The lines on the right are a bit more complex: if you track the movement along the gridlines, it goes north-south for every square except the one in the precise middle, where it goes from southwest to northeast. That would be the only square to take damage by the quoted rule. The RotG description is, for once, much better.
Hirumajoe 02-07-07, 01:26 PM	This is true for everything but lines, although the rules don't say so very clearly. If it were true for lines, then the only way a line would be functional at all is if you shoot it at a 45-degree angle. This is hard to explain without a diagram, but let's take this to start with: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Mage,M,13,29,Ca ster;b=Not,M,13,38,Victim;los=13,29,13,4 5,4The lines on the left don't reach the far edge of any square, ever, so by that quote, they do nothing, and don't hurt the blue guy. The lines on the right are a bit more complex: if you track the movement along the gridlines, it goes north-south for every square except the one in the precise middle, where it goes from southwest to northeast. That would be the only square to take damage by the quoted rule. The RotG description is, for once, much better. Hmm... I actually read that quote as two, distinct statements. I can see if you consider them together how you reach the above conclusion. The first is defining how you count the "range". The other is telling you how to determine what is affected. Thus, I read them independantly. If you interpret the term "edges" to include the corners that the edge connects, then yes, the line on the left does affect both the near and far edges and thus both squares on both sides would be affected. And if you don't consider corners part of the edge, then even in the case of SW to NE, the square wouldn't be affected because you're only hitting corners. Also, while you count "distance" along grid lines, it doesn't say you determine affect by grid lines. It specifically says if the near and far edges are within the area of effect, then its affected. Thus, if I look at the right line, I can visually see it crossing the near and far edges of all the squares to the target, and beyond. Thus all those edges are technically within the area of effect, and thus all the squares those edges are part of are affected. As long as you consider a corner as a part of the edge, I think it hangs together. Well, thats how I see it anyways.
MindWandererB 02-07-07, 01:44 PM	Well, then let me ask: How do you determine the effect of a spread? You start at ground zero, and start counting as you go across each grid line. Going along an edge costs 1 square, going across a diagonal costs 1.5. Repeat for all possible extensions until you determine the entire outer ring. A square is considered to be within the area of the spread only if one of the lines you traced goes from one corner to the other. If it runs along an edge but doesn't have enough "movement" left to do the diagonal, then that square is just outside the spread. Lines break the rules because you don't use the grid for them--you draw a line directly from point to point. And as the RotG article demonstrated, that can get sloppy sometimes. If I had written that article, I'd still say that a line cast directly along a grid intersection has no effect on anyone unless they're bigger than Medium and cover the squares on both sides.
Hirumajoe 02-08-07, 08:18 AM	Hmm... I'm starting to see you're right. The line description has its own comment in the SRD regarding what it affects while none of the other area of effect descriptions do, which means they refer back to that rule I quoted. Lines specifically state: A line-shaped spell shoots away from you in a line in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that blocks line of effect. A line-shaped spell affects all creatures in squares that the line passes through. Presumably the "passes throgh" comment overrides the statement. So what it sounds like is the RotG article is clarifying passing through to include simply touching. But this brings me to a dilema. If you define touching only 1 corner (as Zevox indicates) as being enough to be considered "passed through", you start getting wierd corner cases. Consider the following situations: Red (the caster) casts a line spell from his NE corner, directly NE. Blue is adjacent to Red to the East. Green is adjacent to Blue to the NE. Is Blue affected? Is Green affected? Why or why not for both? http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Name,M,28,48;b= Name,M,29,48;c=Name,M,30,49;d=Name,M,32, 52;los=28,48,32,52,1 Does it change if we change the angle? Red (the caster) casts a line spell from his NE corner, directly North. Blue is adjacent to Red to the East. Green is one adjacent to Blue to the North. Is Blue affected? Is Green affected? http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Name,M,28,48;b= Name,M,29,48;c=Name,M,29,49;d=Name,M,28, 52;los=28,48,28,52,1
Maraxus 02-08-07, 09:00 AM	What about red? With above definition it is proveable, that any line attack allways hits the caster, too (The line from the corner of your box touches your box in that corner, therefor it passes throught, therefor you are effected). Any definition that leads to this can't be true. But the "directly northeast" case is very dificult, anyway. It's likely, that any ruling either produces a case, where your "5 ft line" either covers: "5ft-15ft-5-15-5-..." or "0-5-0-5-0-..." "Directly north" is another interesting case in your definition. Let's say you shoot a 120-ft. line from your northeast corner exactly north, than this 5ft wide line covers a 10x120 ft wide line. Yes, in this case 5=10. However, if you aim 120 ft north and 5 ft to the west, your 5 ft line goes straight north in a 5x120 ft line. Yes, you target diffrently and suddenly, your line is halfed in diameter (from 5 to 5? This is confusing). I'd say, if you want to measure it exactly, the line you draw goes from the center of your square to the target square's center and merly touching a corner of a square along the way does not effect it. This way, the only ugly case is the directly NE (NW...): http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Name,M,29,47;b= Name,M,32,49;c=Name,M,31,50;d=Name,M,34, 52;los=29,47,34,52,1 So that neither blue nor green is effected in this szenario. However, no matter if you take the wide line, or the tight, don't forget, that the exact targetting is up to the caster. He can simply choose to also effect green or blue above, by targetting a square one north (or east). He would still hit his target and every square in the previous path, however also every square that is adjected NW to it, creating, what I would call "a 5 ft wide line NE". Likewise, if hitting at corners counted (and you specifically exclude the corners of your square), then the caster could choose to exclude either blue or green in the above example. No let's think, which option would be less abused, would create more "real" 5 ft lines? I think the corners excluded would serve better
Macbrea 02-08-07, 09:28 AM	A line is not 5ft wide. It is 10ft wide. So, as long as it touches the square that the person is in they are hit. Example: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=red,M,12,33;b=b lue,M,18,33;c=gree,M,18,32;d=se,M,23,33; los=12,33,23,33,3;style=s Both blue and green are solidly hit by the line. It is 10ft wide because it hits both squares along the line.
Maraxus 02-08-07, 09:40 AM	Only if you mean the lower line, if you mean the upper line, then it's only 5 ft wide and only blue is hit. Oh, about how wide the line is supposed to be: Yes, I thought, this was in the spells section, but it looks like it's only in the Dragon Description: 1. A line is always 5 feet high and 5 feet wide. Yes, I admit, not a veeery creditable reference. ;)
Macbrea 02-08-07, 10:14 AM	Call lightning is oddly written. But strictly reading the line rules the effects would look like. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Name,M,13,40;b= Name,M,18,40;n=Effect,18,40,1;style=s;op acity=60 Which is not the 5ft line that is descibed by the flavor text. What it is instead is a 5ft radius line 30ft in height reaching from cieling to floor. The flavor text does apply to the rules of how to do a line.
Hirumajoe 02-08-07, 10:22 AM	What about red? With above definition it is proveable, that any line attack allways hits the caster, too (The line from the corner of your box touches your box in that corner, therefor it passes throught, therefor you are effected). Any definition that leads to this can't be true. And that my friend, is my Dilema. But the "directly northeast" case is very dificult, anyway. It's likely, that any ruling either produces a case, where your "5 ft line" either covers: "5ft-15ft-5-15-5-..." or "0-5-0-5-0-..." "Directly north" is another interesting case in your definition. Let's say you shoot a 120-ft. line from your northeast corner exactly north, than this 5ft wide line covers a 10x120 ft wide line. Yes, in this case 5=10. However, if you aim 120 ft north and 5 ft to the west, your 5 ft line goes straight north in a 5x120 ft line. Yes, you target diffrently and suddenly, your line is halfed in diameter (from 5 to 5? This is confusing). I'd say, if you want to measure it exactly, the line you draw goes from the center of your square to the target square's center and merly touching a corner of a square along the way does not effect it. The unfortunate problem is it quite explicitly states in the rules that spell effects start and end on grid intersections. Although going from center to center might clear up alot of confusion, it really is against the rules. It'd be a *major* house rule. And I agree its kinda silly that the number of targets affected can vary so much just by small changes in angle. Its the only area effect that does so. But such is the nature of lines in a world dominated by squares. This way, the only ugly case is the directly NE (NW...): http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Name,M,29,47;b= Name,M,32,49;c=Name,M,31,50;d=Name,M,34, 52;los=29,47,34,52,1 So that neither blue nor green is effected in this szenario. However, no matter if you take the wide line, or the tight, don't forget, that the exact targetting is up to the caster. He can simply choose to also effect green or blue above, by targetting a square one north (or east). He would still hit his target and every square in the previous path, however also every square that is adjected NW to it, creating, what I would call "a 5 ft wide line NE". Likewise, if hitting at corners counted (and you specifically exclude the corners of your square), then the caster could choose to exclude either blue or green in the above example. Of course, there's the situation when you don't know exactly where your target is because they're hiding behind a wall of smoke. At which point you want to hit squares on both sides of the 45 degree angled line. :-) No let's think, which option would be less abused, would create more "real" 5 ft lines? I think the corners excluded would serve better I think corners excluded serves better, as it doesn't require the unqiue exception of initial corner. And no where in the rules can I find anything specifically excepting the caster's square from an area effect. (Although maybe someone else has come across it). Thus, the rules determining who is affected by an area of effect must somehow include it as a side effect.
Hirumajoe 02-08-07, 10:30 AM	Call lightning is oddly written. But strictly reading the line rules the effects would look like. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Name,M,13,40;b= Name,M,18,40;n=Effect,18,40,1;style=s;op acity=60 Which is not the 5ft line that is descibed by the flavor text. What it is instead is a 5ft radius line 30ft in height reaching from cieling to floor. The flavor text does apply to the rules of how to do a line. Unfortunately, they're using the line in a contradictory way here. If you read the line rules, from the spell descriptions section, a line starts at the caster. But Call Lightning's lines don't come from the caster. So it seems either contradictory, or the definition of line is different in the Call Lightning spell than from the usual use of the term. Its probably not the best spell to be using to determine the effects of lines.
Macbrea 02-08-07, 10:47 AM	Yes, technically. the way that Call lightning is written is should be a column 5ft in radius. Common sense says by the way that a person casting lightning bolt doesn't include their own square when determining who is hit by the the lightning. Even though, it is touched by the lightning bolt. The lightning bolt effects any square it touches along the line. The spell is written correctly in not telling you how wide the line is. It is a 120ft line. That is it. Dragon's breath has statement that just confuses how it works. It's a 5ft wide line. Which still touches squares and still causes people to have to make saves.
Hirumajoe 02-08-07, 11:34 AM	Yes, technically. the way that Call lightning is written is should be a column 5ft in radius. Common sense says by the way that a person casting lightning bolt doesn't include their own square when determining who is hit by the the lightning. Even though, it is touched by the lightning bolt. The lightning bolt effects any square it touches along the line. The spell is written correctly in not telling you how wide the line is. It is a 120ft line. That is it. Dragon's breath has statement that just confuses how it works. It's a 5ft wide line. Which still touches squares and still causes people to have to make saves. Ok, I totally agree that the person casting the lightning bolt shouldn't be affected, and it is common sense. But then there are rulings in D&D which go completely counter to common sense and logic. I mean its common sense that a spell silenced with the silence feat, and doesn't describe any form of sound associated with it, shouldn't require a DC 0 listen check. But it does. Thus you need the rules to reflect the common sense. Stating that something is a certain way because of common sense doesn't work in this environment. Also, what if the caster wants it to affect his space, because he's trying to hit a swarm, a tiny faerie, or for whatever reason? Common sense says he should be able to. But we've already ruled (via common sense) that it can't affect his square. Tossing it diagonally across his square doesn't work, because if it doesn't work for a corner touch which is valid for determining effect, why should it work for any other form of valid touching of his square? I just happen to like self-consistent rules with the fewest exceptions necessary. (Makes me wonder sometimes why I play D&D...). I blame it on the physicist training.
webscav 02-08-07, 12:33 PM	Originally Posted by webscav View Post Looking at the first fight I have here with Grunt shouldn't I have the crafting income?http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost....&postcount=543 Done. K, but shouldn't that be 54, not 48?
MindWandererB 02-08-07, 01:13 PM	Yes, technically. the way that Call lightning is written is should be a column 5ft in radius. Common sense says by the way that a person casting lightning bolt doesn't include their own square when determining who is hit by the the lightning. Even though, it is touched by the lightning bolt. The lightning bolt effects any square it touches along the line. The spell is written correctly in not telling you how wide the line is. It is a 120ft line. That is it. Dragon's breath has statement that just confuses how it works. It's a 5ft wide line. Which still touches squares and still causes people to have to make saves. Actually, Call Lightning is a column 5' in diameter. It's 5' wide. Furthermore, the spell reads, "Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected." Which suggests that you target a square, rather than the traditional intersection. Based on the RotG article (which appears to be down ATM), I propose the following: a line is defined as "crossing" (and thus affecting) a square if it touches at least two edges or at least two corners. It does not affect any square where it touches only one corner, or if it touches only one edge (as may be the case at the edge of its range). A caster can always target his own square by starting it at one corner and having it move through his square.
Hirumajoe 02-08-07, 01:32 PM	Actually, Call Lightning is a column 5' in diameter. It's 5' wide. Furthermore, the spell reads, "Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected." Which suggests that you target a square, rather than the traditional intersection. Based on the RotG article (which appears to be down ATM), I propose the following: a line is defined as "crossing" (and thus affecting) a square if it touches at least two edges or at least two corners. It does not affect any square where it touches only one corner, or if it touches only one edge (as may be the case at the edge of its range). A caster can always target his own square by starting it at one corner and having it move through his square. I like that definition. You still get the 10' wide effect when moving directly north-south, or east-west, since you'll be touching two corners in that case. But it elimintates the caster's square and the single corners when going diagonal (which reduces it to 0-5' wide rather than 5'-15' wide). Its at least self consistant and works with common sense.