Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 07-19-06, 10:34 AM	Fights of the Week: July 19th Sheets Deadline for editing characters sheets is 21:00 CET. By my estimate - that leaves you with about 4.5 hours by my clock - so finish up your editing. Central European Time (http://wwp.centraleuropeantime.eu/) shows the time. Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions. Please do not make fake accounts. If you do, there will be pain for all of your multiple personalities, plus bannings and feeding to dragons. Oh and curses - lots and lots of curses. Pairings GM Caterane will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Make sure that your character is not in Prison (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571107&goto=lastpost). Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need, there is a nice Template ready to use that will help. You could find very useful the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps, You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. Other useful links are Skills and Feats, Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't attack pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play and above all, have FUN! Latest News You level up even during the 3-Fight-Cycle (Rules: Battles I) provided you have enough XP of course. Pitlords have to use Usurpator's XP:GP table to determine gold rewards. All references to the old table have been deleted from the rules. (Rules: Pitlords) This also affects losing XP. Involuntary XP loss (eg familiar death) and XP loss through crafting disappears from the CoCo. The alternative is the Virtual XP idea and we agreed that this is too much of a hassle. Characters who crafted or lost XP until Jun 28 do not have to re-add them retroactively. XP loss by casting spells with an XP Cost also cost an equal amount of gold which is directly taken from Usurpator's XP:GP table. Pitlords should use the Standard Fight Summary. Pitlords who run PCs in Fight 2 have to include the summary from Fight 1 (Fight 1 PCs don't have a previous summary and Fight 3 PCs have completed the cycle anyway). (Rules: Pitlords) Miniquests count for 2 activations per character from this week on! (Rules: Quests) Miniquests to enter a guild do not count against your maximum allowed MQ slots (1/level). Planar Allies: If you pass the 'helpful' diplomacy Dc by X or more, the planar ally fights for free. X is the number of HD of the called ally. (Rules: Allies I). Planar Allies with an 'Always' alignment listed always have that alignment. If only one part is listed as 'Always' (eg. always good) then the other component is free to pick by the player. If the planar ally has a 'Usually' alignment listed, it can be anything within one step (eg. usually CE can also be NE or CN). If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius! A Short Note from our most Magnanimous Magistrate: We have the new Questlog of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=637169) up, thanks to Vathelokai! The new Questlog serves an important purpose: once a year, there will be a board prune. Our quest threads might be affected by that - I'm not sure how much longer I can talk the Wizos into sparing the CoCo from a prune. At least, we didn't see one until now and we will be spared again this year. But they told me that this is no solution for eternity, especially not considering the growth rate of miniquests and quests. So all Questlords must from now on copy/paste their Questlog into the Questlog of Gladius thread! Miniquests run as a seperate thread (ie almost all) must follow the same rules! Failure to do so results in the removal of your credit reward. Please understand that we need hard sanctions because if you fail to do that, the player will suddenly stand there without a link when the prune sweeps the quest away. All players who had a character on a quest or miniquest in the past are advised to reset their link to the log of the Questlog of Gladius thread instead of the log of the quest. Your log will be easy to find because Vath set links to each one at the top of the thread. Please reset your links. It will save all of us a headache in the future! Thanks Cat
TelinArtho 07-19-06, 10:39 AM	In expectation of tonight's Lightning Storm, everyone is invited to the Stormforce Cafe - located just off of the central square for a free drink. Our windows are strong enough to keep out the wind and rain and our hearth is sure to dry out the clothes you wear on your way over. Don't worry - we don't expect any followers of Talos to join us, since it is so close to their ritual Calling Down the Thunder. They are likely busy with preparations for that event. @Zevox - Destra's quest is ready to go once again. If you need to make final alterations to your character - let me know in your first post.
Book5 07-19-06, 12:34 PM	Tan and Ba'al both set to ready! Been awhile! :D Do we need extra pitlords? - I could pitch in this week. :D
TelinArtho 07-19-06, 02:04 PM	Ba'al probably won't get paired this week due to the changes in the Prison sentences. That being said - he'll be all set for next week. Tan will be paired without a problem though I think. About 1 hour to go guys. Good luck.
TelinArtho 07-19-06, 02:56 PM	Looks like time is up folks. Time to get ready for pairings.
Book5 07-19-06, 03:07 PM	but but but Ba'al isn't even listed as a violation? His problem wasn't really.. I had a surplus of cash.. thats all.. Tan is listed as a violation.. and deserved it, but ... oh well, just mentioning.
Pitlords 07-19-06, 03:12 PM	To everyone! We have the new Questlog of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=637169) up, thanks to Vathelokai! The new Questlog serves an important purpose: once a year, there will be a board prune. Our quest threads might be affected by that - I'm not sure how much longer I can talk the Wizos into sparing the CoCo from a prune. At least, we didn't see one until now and we will be spared again this year. But they told me that this is no solution for eternity, especially not considering the growth rate of miniquests and quests. So all Questlords must from now on copy/paste their Questlog into the Questlog of Gladius thread! Miniquests run as a seperate thread (ie almost all) must follow the same rules! Failure to do so results in the removal of your credit reward. Please understand that we need hard sanctions because if you fail to do that, the player will suddenly stand there without a link when the prune sweeps the quest away. All players who had a character on a quest or miniquest in the past are advised to reset their link to the log of the Questlog of Gladius thread instead of the log of the quest. Your log will be easy to find because Vath set links to each one at the top of the thread. Please reset your links. It will save all of us a headache in the future! Thanks Cat @Telin: Could you please add a note about that in size 8? Thanks. @Vath: You gain the promised 5°.
Pitlords 07-19-06, 03:18 PM	Counting DSugui as a <five> we have pitlords for 21 fights. I am sure that's not enough to cover the roster. I'll set the characters ready now and decide then if we run into a state of emergency. Perhaps one or the other pitlord volunteers here during this time? ;)
TelinArtho 07-19-06, 03:22 PM	Well - like I said Cat - if needed I am here to take extra fights in these kind of cases. As to your note... DONE :) :P :D
Pitlords 07-19-06, 03:40 PM	Argh! Both programs of Usurpator and both of Dracazar are set to the new boards! That means I have to make pairings manually. :weep: :weep: Usurpator or Dracazar: Could you please reset the links? Thanks a lot!
MindWandererB 07-19-06, 03:51 PM	I can take an extra fight. Just one for now, although, as usual, if my gladiators get their tactics to me right away, I can likely take another off someone's hands at the last minute.
Pittbull 07-19-06, 04:14 PM	I can run one fight too! Not at the weekend but surely in time.
Pitlords 07-19-06, 05:35 PM	Pairings Done I'll assign credits as soon as the pairingsmaker works again. Counting activate characters per player is a lot of work and the program does it automatically. You'll get your shares. Please read the post about the Questlog of Gladius! @Iced: You don't lose XP anymore when crafting! Also read below (your Uther's QL). @Uther: You cannot use a Free Activity on a Miniquest or Quest. You also cannot have two questgoals; I used the 'join EHTC' one.
SauroGrenom 07-19-06, 05:40 PM	I should be doing MiniQuest for Andurwin(Zelck) who wants to join PSI this week.
Pitlords 07-19-06, 06:09 PM	I should be doing MiniQuest for Andurwin(Zelck) who wants to join PSI this week. He isn't set ready but well...added.
Zelck 07-19-06, 06:24 PM	He isn't set ready but well...added. Oh, d'oh, I forgot to change the date :(. My apologies.
MindWandererB 07-19-06, 06:39 PM	Aerryl is once again (still) set in the wrong league--she's 9, not 8. I mentioned this in the "new" boards, I think, but I guess it, too, got lost.
Zevox 07-19-06, 06:47 PM	Zero (MindwandererB) vs. Pestilence (NiQil) & Sećndithas (Sindorin) : Zevox [Sewer] [Inter-League] :weep: Deja vu I really could've done without... @ Milov - Genia's monster fight is set up here. *mutters something about his brother's luck* @ DSugui & Huan - I should have tactics for Annalina and Indrithia away tonight. @ MindWandererB - Tactics for Sunstroke recieved. Tactics for Zero dreaded. Edit: @ DSugui & Huan - Tactics for Annalina and Indrithia have been PMed. Zevox
Huan 07-19-06, 08:55 PM	@Zevox Tactics for Annalina received, thank you.
King Uther 07-19-06, 09:18 PM	@PLs Tactics being written tonight. @Anyone Alagar did not find a volunteer pitlord for his quest to receive a cohort. COuld I get a taker? I don't want anything complicated, just a new best friend.
Pitlords 07-19-06, 09:35 PM	Aerryl (MindWandererB) vs. Unknown Monster : Book5 [Arena] Jonathan (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Daisy (DSugui) : TelinArtho [Plains] @King Uther: I have no information about Alagar's quest. Please send them.
NiQil 07-19-06, 09:41 PM	:weep: Deja vu I really could've done without... @ Milov - Genia's monster fight is set up here. *mutters something about his brother's luck* @ DSugui & Huan - I should have tactics for Annalina and Indrithia away tonight. @ MindWandererB - Tactics for Sunstroke recieved. Tactics for Zero dreaded. Edit: @ DSugui & Huan - Tactics for Annalina and Indrithia have been PMed. Zevox Holy crap! Who's bright idea was it to put Zero and Sećndithas in the same match? That match could go on for days. Maybe Pestilence should just bring some ale and turkey legs and see which one he can find first. He'll be virtually useless otherwise LOL
Milov 07-19-06, 10:20 PM	Zevox and NiQil, tactics for both Ihdald ands Genia sent :D
TheMagister 07-19-06, 10:21 PM	@Huan and TelinArtho - tactics for Mssr. Hood sent via PM. TM
King Uther 07-19-06, 11:20 PM	@bluemage55 Tactics for Bilk sent via PM. Should be a good fight between two melee stallions. @Dracazar I wish Quesis wasn't in her 3rd match. I feel like it would be a really hard match to predict if we had full resources, but without expansion or rage the scale leans in Bilk's direction. Should still be a good match though. @Abyssal Stalker Tactics for Cyalin sent via PM. I think I could easily lose this one. At least there's no stealth on the plains. @TelinArtho With 11hp, low saves, and Anakala with 2 extremely mobile companions I find myself in a difficult position. If I didn't hire the druid, this would be no contest.
MindWandererB 07-19-06, 11:22 PM	Holy crap! Who's bright idea was it to put Zero and Sećndithas in the same match? That match could go on for days. Maybe Pestilence should just bring some ale and turkey legs and see which one he can find first. He'll be virtually useless otherwise LOLUmm... blindsense. Plus, unless you hide underwater, it's pretty hard to avoid an auto-spot in the sewer map. And you do realize it's an inter-league, right? Seaendithas won't be hiding from Pestilence.
hogarth 07-19-06, 11:35 PM	Milov/DSugui: tactics have been sent for Treetall Oakleg
Sindorin 07-19-06, 11:43 PM	Hey Cat, I don't know if you checked the Level 10's or not since they are frozen, but I finally got around to having Va'ria ready to craft her Boccob's Blessed Book. Just so you don't have to edit the pairings for this small thing, could you make a post that I can link to so as to confirm this week's crafting? Thanks
TelinArtho 07-19-06, 11:47 PM	@dracazar and pittbull - burglary success has been sent via PM. Tactics sent to Pittbull as well.
NiQil 07-19-06, 11:57 PM	@ TelinArtho: Tactics for Famine sent via PM @ Zevox: Tactics for Pestilence sent via PM @ Traevanon: Tactics for War sent via PM @ SauroGrenom: Tactics for Death sent via PM @ MindWandererB: Yeah....but I still won't be able to find either of you in the sewer LOL. Might as well bring a lawn chair, umbrella and hire a dancing bear for entertainment LOL
Sindorin 07-20-06, 12:12 AM	Tactics for Seaendithas PM'd to Zevox.
TelinArtho 07-20-06, 12:24 AM	@Dsugui - tactics for Farig sent. EDIT - @Huan - tactics for Darrgon sent.
MindWandererB 07-20-06, 12:44 AM	@Zevox: You should have all the tactics for the hide-and-seek game in the sewers now. You might want to get cracking on that one, in case NiQil's fears turn out to be right.
TelinArtho 07-20-06, 01:04 AM	@Abyssal, KU and Pitlords - there's some question from my end on whether Jazer has been hired. I want an official ruling if one can be had please. I have sent my tactics but might need to revise them depending on what the response is. EDIT: @Traevanon - Faelto's tactics have been sent. I think that's all the tactics I need to send for now (exception noted above depending on ruling).
Zevox 07-20-06, 02:53 AM	@ Inter-leaguers - Yep, got all of your tactics. Not that I'm exactly looking forward to that one - I think NiQil is pretty close to having the right of it, though mayhaps hes overestimating how easy it'll be for Saeandithas to hide from Zero between his huge speed and blindsense. I'm more afraid of it turning into a repeat of the test fight I did - Pestilence has even more healing than Famine did then, and more hp now that hes higher level. Like I said, this is a case of deja vu I really could've done without... Anyway, I'll probably run Milov's monster fight tomorrow (I have work half of the day, so that one will be the only one I'll have the time for), then Friday do Sunstroke vs Dronnar if I have DSugui's tactics by then - I want to make sure I get those done before the deadline before launching into that hell hole of a sniper fight if its an option. Zevox
Dracazar 07-20-06, 04:37 AM	Argh! Both programs of Usurpator and both of Dracazar are set to the new boards! That means I have to make pairings manually. :weep: :weep: Usurpator or Dracazar: Could you please reset the links? Thanks a lot! Done. Sorry but I would have fixed that before pairings but I got problems with my mobile connection.
Caterane 07-20-06, 08:01 AM	Hey Cat, I don't know if you checked the Level 10's or not since they are frozen, but I finally got around to having Va'ria ready to craft her Boccob's Blessed Book. Just so you don't have to edit the pairings for this small thing, could you make a post that I can link to so as to confirm this week's crafting? Thanks I'll add it to the pairings post. Just link the one in the Battles thread; I always update it around friday so you can't go wrong there. @Drac: Grazie!
waywreth 07-20-06, 08:42 AM	@MindwandererB - Tactics for Gaston in Cyra Val (Stormwind) vs. Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) : MindwandererB [Forest] sent via PM.
Sindorin 07-20-06, 09:09 AM	I'll add it to the pairings post. Just link the one in the Battles thread; I always update it around friday so you can't go wrong there. @Drac: Grazie! Ah, thank you.
Book5 07-20-06, 10:24 AM	feels like its been so long! @ Telin : Tactics Sent!
TelinArtho 07-20-06, 10:28 AM	Received - but you have a response...
Usurpator 07-20-06, 11:51 AM	@Cat Sorry, wasn't at home nor did check the boards last two days. Last time I checked didn't see anything indicating how we were going to proceed. In any case, two of my characters were updated and set to ready on the new board, but not on the old. But since I don't have time to write tactics (and am away myself next week) it doesn't really matter. I hope this board update stuff will be finished someday soon.
TelinArtho 07-20-06, 12:48 PM	Tan and Famine is up.
DSugui 07-20-06, 01:16 PM	@Zevox: tactics for Dronnar vs sneaking monk sent by PM @Telin: tactics for Daisy vs riding cleric sent by PM @Sauro: tactics for Valek vs horseman sent by PM Tactics received: Ihdald, Indrithia, Treetall, Farig, Felicity. Tactics missing: Kutalk I will try to run fights today and tomorrow, since my weekend will be busy.
TelinArtho 07-20-06, 01:21 PM	@DSugui - tactics received.
MindWandererB 07-20-06, 01:57 PM	@Book5: Please note, I need a random monster setup from you. @waywreth: received. Still need Cyra Val.
NiQil 07-20-06, 02:01 PM	Tan and Famine is up. Stupid disarms....at least carrying all that extra equipment finally paid off. Though I think it would have been more appropriate if Famine had used his masonry skills to build a crypt for Mario (after splitting him in half LOL)
TelinArtho 07-20-06, 02:33 PM	Though I think it would have been more appropriate if Famine had used his masonry skills to build a crypt for Mario (after splitting him in half LOL) Actually - I usually write up the text of the free activities before I run the fight - while I am setting things up... if I had predicted Mario's one-hit wonder - well - that would've been impressive.
Milov 07-20-06, 11:19 PM	Quite sorry, in my previous post in this thread, I said I sent tactics to Zevox and NiQil, I mean Zevox and DSugui. Double checked after a reminder, I did send them properly, but if either of you didn't get them, just let me know.
Pittbull 07-21-06, 03:17 AM	@Drac and Telin: Both sets of tactics are received. Drac won't be able to use his scroll of invisibility. @Telin: Don't be afraid, you get a fair fight. I don't bear a grudge.
TelinArtho 07-21-06, 10:21 AM	I am still missing tactics for Jonathon Raven. I've got a fair amount of time to work on the fight today if they are sent.
Stormwind 07-21-06, 10:32 AM	@Mindwanderer: Tactics for Cyra sent via PM.
Zevox 07-21-06, 01:53 PM	Genia Lanter vs a Ghast is done. The dice decided this one. For my other fights, I'll run Dronnar vs Sunstroke this afternoon/evening, if necessary finishing it tomorrow morning, then I'll use whatever free time I can scrounge from all the work I've been scheduled for this weekend for the fight from hell and hopefully have that up before the deadline. Zevox
DSugui 07-21-06, 02:30 PM	Farig of Denth (TelinArtho) vs. Felicity (Salrantol) is up HERE One-sided fight.
TelinArtho 07-21-06, 02:44 PM	Why is Farig not getting ride checks for cover in round 3 and 4? Use my mount for cover in all applicable situations. In round 5, why would Farig try to break free from the entangle when immediately threatened by the dog? In general, my goal is to get into melee with Felicity. If her dogs get into melee first - take them down first. Also, in round 5, the defend trick should kick in since the dog attacked Farig in round 4. The dire flail is a 2-handed weapon. In round 6, in order to use it - I have to drop my bow - since stowing it would provoke. I also don't see the bonus to hit from being on higher ground. In round 7, it should be a full attack - since I wouldn't be putting away the bow at this point. As to Salrantol's comment about my dire flail - I am using the exotic dual weapon - not the flail and my armor spikes. With 2-weapon fighting it reduces my penalties to -2/-2 for the primary and secondary heads respectively, since the secondary head is treated as a light weapon when wielded this way. In other words - he's wrong. Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaffs, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING [GENERAL] You can fight with a weapon in each hand. You can make one extra attack each round with the second weapon. Prerequisite: Dex 15. Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You can reduce these penalties in two ways: •If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.) •The Two-Weapon Fighting feat lessens the primary hand penalty by 2, and the off-hand penalty by 6. Table: Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties summarizes the interaction of all these factors. Table: Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties Circumstances Primary Hand Off Hand Normal penalties –6 –10 Off-hand weapon is light –4 –8 Two-Weapon Fighting feat –4 –4 Off-hand weapon is light and Two-Weapon Fighting feat –2 –2 Double Weapons: You can use a double weapon to make an extra attack with the off-hand end of the weapon as if you were fighting with two weapons. The penalties apply as if the off-hand end of the weapon were a light weapon. Thrown Weapons: The same rules apply when you throw a weapon from each hand. Treat a dart or shuriken as a light weapon when used in this manner, and treat a bolas, javelin, net, or sling as a one-handed weapon. So wielding two one-handed weapons (ie two flails) would be -6/-10 Wielding a dire flail is -4/-8 Wielding a dire flail with the two-weapon fighting feat is -2/-2
DSugui 07-21-06, 02:57 PM	Why is Farig not getting ride checks for cover in round 3 and 4? In round 5, why would Farig try to break free from the entangle when immediately threatened by the dog? Also, in round 5, the defend trick should kick in since the dog attacked Farig in round 4. The dire flail is a 2-handed weapon. In round 6, in order to use it - I have to drop my bow - since stowing it would provoke. I also don't see the bonus to hit from being on higher ground. In round 7, it should be a full attack - since I wouldn't be putting away the bow at this point. As to Salrantol's comment about my dire flail - I am using the exotic dual weapon - not the flail and my armor spikes. With 2-weapon fighting it reduces my penalties to -2/-2 for the primary and secondary heads respectively, since the secondary head is treated as a light weapon when wielded this way. In other words - he's wrong. Man, I think I never made so many mistake in one fight... Sorry about that. I will correct them as soon as I can.
TelinArtho 07-21-06, 03:17 PM	Also just noticed there should've been a ride check in round 5 as well - when the dog attacked. While entangled my ride check is reduce by 2 from the -4 Dex of the condition.
MindWandererB 07-21-06, 03:27 PM	As to Salrantol's comment about my dire flail - I am using the exotic dual weapon - not the flail and my armor spikes. With 2-weapon fighting it reduces my penalties to -2/-2 for the primary and secondary heads respectively, since the secondary head is treated as a light weapon when wielded this way. In other words - he's wrong.And even if it were a flail+armor spikes, the penalty would be the same, since armor spikes are a light weapon.
TelinArtho 07-21-06, 03:33 PM	And even if it were a flail+armor spikes, the penalty would be the same, since armor spikes are a light weapon. Actually Salrantol had that part right - it just appears he missed that the dire flail was a double-weapon. With the fail and armor spikes I would be at +5/+3 - because I don't have WF for the spikes and the spikes are not [Ma].
MindWandererB 07-21-06, 03:51 PM	Actually Salrantol had that part right - it just appears he missed that the dire flail was a double-weapon. With the fail and armor spikes I would be at +5/+3 - because I don't have WF for the spikes and the spikes are not [Ma].Ah, yes. Your diatribe on how TWF worked threw me off--Salrantol undoubtedly knows how it works already, he just missed the weapon.
TelinArtho 07-21-06, 04:03 PM	Yeah - I realized that as well after a little bit. I've been watching DSugui make the rolls on the roller and it is pretty suspenseful... I might actually have a chance! (here's hoping she misses with the last produce flame attack...)
DSugui 07-21-06, 04:44 PM	Farig of Denth (TelinArtho) vs. Felicity (Salrantol) has been edited. Much more exciting now.
TelinArtho 07-21-06, 04:55 PM	@DSugui - couple of small things. First - I made a note you may have missed - Farig should be able to ride for cover against the dog's attack in round 5. Secondly - with Whirlwind's hit on the dog for 6 in round 5 and Farig's critical in round 6 for another 18 - the dog is dead (-11)
MindWandererB 07-21-06, 05:18 PM	Cyra Val vs. Gaston Dar'ath is up. The dice gods are fickle.
DSugui 07-21-06, 05:57 PM	@DSugui - couple of small things. First - I made a note you may have missed - Farig should be able to ride for cover against the dog's attack in round 5. Secondly - with Whirlwind's hit on the dog for 6 in round 5 and Farig's critical in round 6 for another 18 - the dog is dead (-11) Small things that change a battle. Second edit is up - the outcome has changed. The dice gods are fickle. Tell me about it!
Zevox 07-21-06, 08:14 PM	Sunstroke vs Dronnar is up. No major surprises here. Dice Gods had a moment of hesitation - well, either that or they were giving me thier best sneer - but otherwise I think this went pretty much as expected. Zevox
Salrantol 07-21-06, 09:12 PM	Sorry about the dire flail thing...I may have seen "dire flail", but I know I read "heavy flail"....
DSugui 07-21-06, 09:24 PM	Sunstroke vs Dronnar is up. No major surprises here. Dice Gods had a moment of hesitation - well, either that or they were giving me thier best sneer - but otherwise I think this went pretty much as expected. Zevox I never expected him to go giant - though I should have. I don't know if it was more my fault than MWB's merit, but he deserved this victory. Thanks for the run, Zevox.
TelinArtho 07-21-06, 09:42 PM	Small things that change a battle. Second edit is up - the outcome has changed. Tell me about it! LOL The reason I'm laughing is technically - I wanted to trip Felicity each round before fully attacking. Doing so would probably just result in her death sooner - but if my opponent wants that edited in, I certainly won't object. In any case, thanks for being understanding as I pointed out the little things that added up to one big change. @Salrantol - no problem. Next time - it would probably be better to point it out in the prison - so that I can see it - and resolve it before you got too far in your tactics. No harm - no foul though. Good fight - I thought you were going to have my number there.
MindWandererB 07-22-06, 04:49 AM	Sunstroke vs Dronnar is up. No major surprises here. Dice Gods had a moment of hesitation - well, either that or they were giving me thier best sneer - but otherwise I think this went pretty much as expected.Thanks. Good clean run, except for one tiny thing: In round 7, when Dronnar closes, he moves through a threatened square, and thus provokes an AoO (which, using the next attack roll instead, would have stopped him anyway). Obviously, this doesn't need to be added, but it could have been important had things gone differently. Some advice I think I've given you before, but it's worth reiterating: you can use shorthand notations sometimes. Particularly when it comes to long, repetitious portions of battles, you really don't have to do a whole, formal fight summary with map every time. If it's driving you crazy, take steps to make yourself less crazy. It's okay, no one's going to complain that you don't have flavor text for every single round. I mean, it's nice, and we appreciate it, but it's not worth your sanity.
Traevanon 07-22-06, 09:14 AM	Faelto (TelinArtho) vs. War (NiQil) : Traevanon [Cavern] is Here! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9641561&postcount=755) Not so long as it could have been.
TheMagister 07-22-06, 09:16 AM	Sunstroke vs Dronnar is up. No major surprises here. Dice Gods had a moment of hesitation - well, either that or they were giving me thier best sneer - but otherwise I think this went pretty much as expected. Zevox Hey, out of curiosity: what happened to Dronnar's attack in round 7? TM
Zevox 07-22-06, 10:01 AM	Thanks. Good clean run, except for one tiny thing: In round 7, when Dronnar closes, he moves through a threatened square, and thus provokes an AoO (which, using the next attack roll instead, would have stopped him anyway). Obviously, this doesn't need to be added, but it could have been important had things gone differently. Bleh, missed that in the midst of the readied attack. Oh well. I also just noticed I forgot to use his Psionic Weapon feat for extra damage, which would've shortened things for me. Some advice I think I've given you before, but it's worth reiterating: you can use shorthand notations sometimes. Particularly when it comes to long, repetitious portions of battles, you really don't have to do a whole, formal fight summary with map every time. If it's driving you crazy, take steps to make yourself less crazy. It's okay, no one's going to complain that you don't have flavor text for every single round. I mean, it's nice, and we appreciate it, but it's not worth your sanity. Its not really doing the formal summary that annoys me about grappling (I quite like doing flavor text, even when I'm a bit distracted to do good ones) as it is the sheer number of rolls you have to make every round for it, and how the heavily defensive "don't try to damage if hes not pinned" strategy of all the flurry-grappling monks that can drag things out with just a few unlucky rolls. Just in Sunstroke's turn there was a minimum of four rolls to make (two grapple checks w/ Dronnar opposing), and you could add a fifth to that for damage if both succeeded. Then Dronnar's escape rolls, or in his one lucky round two sets of rolls to try and draw and draw his wand. That makes for some pretty busy rounds. Hey, out of curiosity: what happened to Dronnar's attack in round 7? TM He moved too far to make one. His speed is only 35' even with Skate (heavy armor), which is only enough to get him to the edge of the walkway outside Sunstroke's start box. Zevox
TelinArtho 07-22-06, 02:02 PM	Faelto (TelinArtho) vs. War (NiQil) : Traevanon [Cavern] is Here! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9641561&postcount=755) Not so long as it could have been. Looks fine to me - though I also cast Ray of Enfeeblement once as well if you could add that to the summary please. Also, apparently sundered equipment still survive from battle to battle - so my wand is usable in the next fight still.
NiQil 07-22-06, 05:26 PM	Looks fine to me - though I also cast Ray of Enfeeblement once as well if you could add that to the summary please. Also, apparently sundered equipment still survive from battle to battle - so my wand is usable in the next fight still. Looks fine to me as well...sundering the wand is probably what decided this fight...otherwise it could have gone for a *long time. And yes, the wand comes back next fight. On a completely unrelated note, Khabil Barukh vs Ox the Ogre is up.
Traevanon 07-23-06, 12:25 AM	I'll make the adjustments when I go back and finish up the 3FC summary. Thanks
hogarth 07-23-06, 08:14 AM	Just a comment to Traevanon about Khabil Barukh's tactics: Tactics - Use Travel to avoid Grapples freely. I don't believe the Travel domain allows you to auto-escape grapples like Freedom of Movement does; according to the description, the domain ability allows you to escape "magical effects that impede movement". A grappling ogre is not a "magical effect".
Traevanon 07-23-06, 09:06 AM	I dunno, I suppose it could be read that way. Then again, alot of things can be read different ways. Hard to say.
hogarth 07-23-06, 04:10 PM	I dunno, I suppose it could be read that way. Then again, alot of things can be read different ways. Hard to say. I don't get it -- what's ambiguous about "you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement"? :confused:
TheMagister 07-23-06, 04:21 PM	I don't get it -- what's ambiguous about "you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement"? :confused: The part where it says "as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement." Freedom of Movement allows you to automatically escape grapples. I can see how a case could be made which would take the position that: if the domain power description stated "you can act normally regardless of effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement", people would say that since it didn't specifically state that the effects were MAGICAL, that the domain power wouldn't work against a web spell. TM
hogarth 07-23-06, 04:48 PM	The part where it says "as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement." Freedom of Movement allows you to automatically escape grapples. I can see how a case could be made which would take the position that: if the domain power description stated "you can act normally regardless of effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement", people would say that since it didn't specifically state that the effects were MAGICAL, that the domain power wouldn't work against a web spell. TM The reason the Travel Domain ability is phrased that way is because that's the way the domain ability was phrased in 3.0 D&D (back when Freedom of Movement didn't allow auto-escaping grapples). But my point is that the ability is pretty clearly phrased as is, so why try to make it say something it doesn't? Isn't this supposed to be the Core Coliseum, not the "Core plus a whole bunch of sensible house rules" Coliseum?
TheMagister 07-23-06, 06:00 PM	Isn't this supposed to be the Core Coliseum, not the "Core plus a whole bunch of sensible house rules" Coliseum? I am SO sigging this... [steal] TM
TelinArtho 07-23-06, 08:47 PM	I have received Jonathon's tactics and will be running that fight shortly.
TelinArtho 07-23-06, 09:56 PM	Little Daisy vs Jonathon Raven is up. Quick and dirty.
SauroGrenom 07-23-06, 10:15 PM	Quick Question: Why does Valek Usher have a -1 penalty listed for his short sword while using a shield? This is not a bucker, rather it is a typical large shield and light weapon combination used in different hands. Am I missing something?
TelinArtho 07-23-06, 10:31 PM	Don't know. If Valek wasn't proficient with shields, it would make sense (as the ACP would apply to his attack rolls), but as it is - I don't see any reason for it.
DSugui 07-23-06, 10:57 PM	That's because you receive the ACP from shields as attack penalty when using Weapon Finesse, and that's the case. Little Daisy vs Jonathon Raven is up. Quick and dirty. Thanks for the run. Pretty much as I expected.
Abyssal Stalker 07-24-06, 12:38 AM	Little Daisy vs Jonathon Raven is up. Quick and dirty.Thanks! Sorry about the late tactics, but RL is quite hectic at the moment. My workload is heavy, I have my wedding coming on and I managed to smash my foot with a sledge hammer this weekend... Doesn't leave me too much time with CoCo, but I still try to find some time. The reason for the crappy tactics was that I really stood no chance and I think that it's time to retire Jonathon. He hasn't done so well as on lower levels.
Iced 07-24-06, 01:57 AM	I finally finished Emorick Brightstar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9641547&postcount=879). If anyone finds any errors please pm me about them. The plan is Psywar 2/Psion 1/Ftr 2/Ranger 1/ => Elocater+Shadowdancer (+Slayer?) The character is a light mobile combatant. I'm going to work to get him some useful mobility/sneaky items and see how a scout/skirmisher hit-and-run character fares in the arena.
Book5 07-24-06, 10:37 AM	@Book5: Please note, I need a random monster setup from you. :shifty: umm, do you still need that? the character actions post doesnt have this monster fight listed.... I can still get that done..
Pittbull 07-24-06, 12:24 PM	Dracazar vs Ilendil is finished and posted here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9669768&postcount=762)! Any comments or concerns, I'll fix them tomorrow.
Book5 07-24-06, 12:45 PM	@Book5: Please note, I need a random monster setup from you. :shifty: umm, do you still need that? the character actions post doesnt have this monster fight listed.... I can still get that done.. no really, am I too late? was it already done?
MindWandererB 07-24-06, 12:55 PM	no really, am I too late? was it already done?Actually, I was just moments away from asking someone to take it over for you. (It was an edit after the original pairings; Cat put it in the "Characters" listing but not in the "Battles" one.) So yeah, if you could get me that, that would be great. I should be able to send you tactics shortly after getting the description.
hogarth 07-24-06, 12:58 PM	Tactics received: Ihdald, Indrithia, Treetall, Farig, Felicity. Tactics missing: Kutalk DSugui, any idea when Treetall and Ihdald's fight will be posted?
DSugui 07-24-06, 01:07 PM	Tonight, probably. I had a busy weekend so I didn't have time to run the fights yet, but I will do so today and tomorrow.
Book5 07-24-06, 01:09 PM	Actually, I was just moments away from asking someone to take it over for you. (It was an edit after the original pairings; Cat put it in the "Characters" listing but not in the "Battles" one.) So yeah, if you could get me that, that would be great. I should be able to send you tactics shortly after getting the description. two shakes! :D
Abyssal Stalker 07-24-06, 01:44 PM	I've started the fight Cyalin vs Anakala. Please check the first four rounds for mistakes. It's very heavy to run and I hope I haven't made any mistakes there because of the great effort I need to put on it.
Book5 07-24-06, 01:50 PM	arg :banghead: can I get a monster choice or roll - I had a scanned version of the necessary pages that Mitza sent me - but I can't find it now (might have been on a completely different machine). :rolleyes: and before ya'll give me flack about not having my own copy of the DMG - I gave it to someone else (I have given away more DMGs than most people have ever owned :P ) I mean, realy.... @Cat/Elders : can we get a copy of that table in the rules? @ Anyone other than MindwandererB! Can I get a monster roll?
MindWandererB 07-24-06, 01:53 PM	arg :banghead: can I get a monster choice or roll - I had a scanned version of the necessary pages that Mitza sent me - but I can't find it now (might have been on a completely different machine). :rolleyes: and before ya'll give me flack about not having my own copy of the DMG - I gave it to someone else (I have given away more DMGs than most people have ever owned :P ) I mean, realy.... @Cat/Elders : can we get a copy of that table in the rules? @ Anyone other than MindwandererB! Can I get a monster roll?Actually, Cat's a step ahead of you. Look here.
Zevox 07-24-06, 01:55 PM	@ Book5 - Actually, the monster tables have been added to our rules thread for some time now. You can find them here. Edit: Bah, MindWanderer beat me to it. Zevox
TelinArtho 07-24-06, 02:08 PM	I've started the fight Cyalin vs Anakala. Please check the first four rounds for mistakes. It's very heavy to run and I hope I haven't made any mistakes there because of the great effort I need to put on it. Although I don't necessarily agree with some of the movement choices thus far - they are not an issue I am willing to argue (as it is very subjective - and I feel I was not as clear as I should have been). Regardless, there's two points I want to bring up: In round 3, one of the mirror images has already disappeared - so Souffle should be rolling 1d5 vs Cyalin to find the correct target (instead of the 1d6 noted in the roller). Secondly, I made a mistake. Jazer (ECL1) can bring in his CR1 companion because Cyalin is Level 4 - not level 3. This probably changes a few things in those first few rounds. Sorry about the confusion - I don't really know what I was thinking...
Book5 07-24-06, 02:55 PM	oh.. hehe Don't you love it when your great ideas are implamented before you even ask... :embarrass 'K B... your walking through the forest and you hear the footfalls of 4 large monsters.... :eek:
Abyssal Stalker 07-24-06, 03:27 PM	Although I don't necessarily agree with some of the movement choices thus far - they are not an issue I am willing to argue (as it is very subjective - and I feel I was not as clear as I should have been). Regardless, there's two points I want to bring up: In round 3, one of the mirror images has already disappeared - so Souffle should be rolling 1d5 vs Cyalin to find the correct target (instead of the 1d6 noted in the roller). Secondly, I made a mistake. Jazer (ECL1) can bring in his CR1 companion because Cyalin is Level 4 - not level 3. This probably changes a few things in those first few rounds. Sorry about the confusion - I don't really know what I was thinking...Well, the case seems to be that the both of you forgot just how big the map actually is. I have tried to run your tactics as I read them, that doesn't necessarily mean the same as you have meant them. I'll fix those things and then continue on with the fight. The mistake with Jazer isn't actually too big problem. I would have probably ruled the situation the same way, because Anakala is really far from the other two - there seems to be no need for an Entangle because the elementals are a bigger threat at the point.
Zevox 07-24-06, 03:27 PM	Secondly, I made a mistake. Jazer (ECL1) can bring in his CR1 companion because Cyalin is Level 4 - not level 3. This probably changes a few things in those first few rounds. Sorry about the confusion - I don't really know what I was thinking... Actually, you were wrong all around in that regard. Only leadership-like class allies of your ally (aka a Thrallherd's thralls/believers or a Thaumaturge's Planar Cohort) count against your limit. Non-ECL class allies aren't restricted for your allies any more than they are for you. To quote that rule (bolding mine): Allies of my Ally: It might of course happen that you have an ally who has class allies on his own, like in case of a druid cohort who has an animal companion, or a thaumaturg's planar cohort might be a thrallherd whose thralls are sorcerers with familiars, and so on. To prevent the creation of a long string of allies, leadership-like class allies (thaumaturg's cohort and thralls) of your class ally do always count against your maxCA (see below). That means, you may use your cohort's class ally but it counts against your limit and might prevent to make use of your own cohort. If the class ally of your ally is a non-ECL creature, it can enter for free and does not count against your limit. Zevox
TelinArtho 07-24-06, 03:34 PM	I'll just claim I was drinking and was not right in my mind... In any case - apologies for putting such confusion around it.
King Uther 07-24-06, 03:36 PM	All looks good so far to me Abyssal. I would ask that you roll no more natruals 1s though, it might make me lose.
TelinArtho 07-24-06, 04:52 PM	@Abyssal - Elementals are not subject to critical hits: Elemental Type: An elemental is a being composed of one of the four classical elements: air, earth, fire, or water. Features: An elemental has the following features. —8-sided Hit Dice. —Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (as cleric). —Good saves depend on the element: Fortitude (earth, water) or Reflex (air, fire). —Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die. Traits: An elemental possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning. —Not subject to critical hits or flanking. —Unlike most other living creatures, an elemental does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an elemental is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an elemental. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection, to restore it to life. —Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry. —Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) that it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor. —Elementals do not eat, sleep, or breathe.
Zevox 07-24-06, 05:58 PM	To my relief, Zero vs Saeandithas & Pestilence is up, having taken a couple score fewer rounds than I expected. Lets just say I'm happy the dice Gods decided to favor the character they did so heavily. Zevox
SauroGrenom 07-24-06, 07:48 PM	Can you crit on a Sunder attempt?
bluemage55 07-24-06, 08:05 PM	Can you crit on a Sunder attempt? Objects are immune to critical hits, so no.
Sindorin 07-24-06, 08:12 PM	Thanks for running that fight Zevox - I'm glad I got it in because Seaendithas levels regardless of the fact that he didn't have much of a chance.
NiQil 07-24-06, 09:30 PM	To my relief, Zero vs Saeandithas & Pestilence is up, having taken a couple score fewer rounds than I expected. Lets just say I'm happy the dice Gods decided to favor the character they did so heavily. Zevox I have a question regarding the end of this fight where Zero is sniping Pestilence. If the positioning on the map in round 22 is the same in every round thereafter, it makes no sense to me why Pestilence would just stand there and take those shots with nothing else happening. Though he may not be able to see who is firing, he *can tell the direction the arrows are coming from. A simple 5 ft step in the other direction takes him to ranged cover due to the corner of the wall Zero is shooting around, and if he advances in the direction he is being fire upon from, he will break the cover that Zero is using whenever he has a clear LOS to that space, preventing Zero from hiding due to no concealment or cover at that point. Though Zero may still have Improved cover from the water, to my knowledge, he still has to break the surface to shoot, at which point he would be autospotted. At that point, Pestilence would be free to attempt his grapple tactics. Is there something I am missing? Edit: Also, assuming nothing changes from how it is now, I don't think the rewards are correct. How would mine and Sindorin's characters earn *less for fighting a higher level character? That seems off to me...maybe I'm wrong. But a standard ECL 5 vs ECL 5 fight nets the loser 500 xp and 533 gp...if you could show me how you arrived at those rewards, that would be super.
Zevox 07-24-06, 09:56 PM	Though he may not be able to see who is firing, he *can tell the direction the arrows are coming from. And what would make you think that? I seem to recall rulings to the contrary being made in every instance of sniping in the past - I know at least that Stormwind pointed me to one at one point when I ran one of Cyra's fights, though I can't recall where (perhaps she could lend a hand there?). A simple 5 ft step in the other direction takes him to ranged cover due to the corner of the wall Zero is shooting around, and if he advances in the direction he is being fire upon from, he will break the cover that Zero is using whenever he has a clear LOS to that space, preventing Zero from hiding due to no concealment or cover at that point. Should he take cover, Zero would simply 5' step to negate it. And Zero has cover from the water, not the wall, so no matter how close you get to him you'll never break his cover, even if you knew where he was. Though Zero may still have Improved cover from the water, to my knowledge, he still has to break the surface to shoot, at which point he would be autospotted. Incorrect on both counts. First, the whole point of sniping is to prevent the foe from spotting you when you fire, so being auto-spotted in mid-snipe would render the whole action useless. Second, Zero isn't totally submerged in the water since his size category won't permit it (tiny creatures take up a 2 1/2 ft cube), he gains the improved cover bonus from being submerged "at least chest deep" in the water. This was a ruling I made on how he would interact with the water last time he had a fight in the sewer (at the time MWB wanted him to count as being totally submerged due to his actual size [less than 1' long], but both Telin [his foe] and I disagreed). Edit: Also, assuming nothing changes from how it is now, I don't think the rewards are correct. How would mine and Sindorin's characters earn *less for fighting a higher level character? That seems off to me...maybe I'm wrong. But a standard ECL 5 vs ECL 5 fight nets the loser 500 xp and 533 gp...if you could show me how you arrived at those rewards, that would be super. I took the xp reward for an ECL 5 fighting an ECL 7 (3,000 xp), divided it by two for the two teammates (1,500), then by 3 for the loss (500). For the gp I used Usurpator's ratio table and simply multiplied the xp reward by that, which yielded 530 gp. If theres something I missed there, I'll correct it. Zevox
NiQil 07-24-06, 10:10 PM	And what would make you think that? I seem to recall rulings to the contrary being made in every instance of sniping in the past - I know at least that Stormwind pointed me to one at one point when I ran one of Cyra's fights, though I can't recall where (perhaps she could lend a hand there?). Should he take cover, Zero would simply 5' step to negate it. And Zero has cover from the water, not the wall, so no matter how close you get to him you'll never break his cover, even if you knew where he was. Incorrect on both counts. First, the whole point of sniping is to prevent the foe from spotting you when you fire, so being auto-spotted in mid-snipe would render the whole action useless. Second, Zero isn't totally submerged in the water since his size category won't permit it (tiny creatures take up a 2 1/2 ft cube), he gains the improved cover bonus from being submerged "at least chest deep" in the water. This was a ruling I made on how he would interact with the water last time he had a fight in the sewer (at the time MWB wanted him to count as being totally submerged due to his actual size [less than 1' long], but both Telin [his foe] and I disagreed). I took the xp reward for an ECL 5 fighting an ECL 7 (3,000 xp), divided it by two for the two teammates (1,500), then by 3 for the loss (500). For the gp I used Usurpator's ratio table and simply multiplied the xp reward by that, which yielded 530 gp. If theres something I missed there, I'll correct it. Zevox Now that you break it down, the rewards appear to be correct....they just didn't look right for some reason. As far as the fight is concerned, I'm not going to ask for any edits, but I have to say that I am starting to understand the bias against Zero. I know of no character that can beat Zero on this map off the top of my head, because there is no reason for Zero to ever leave the cover of the water, which means he can *always snipe, due to always having cover. I can't sit here and blame MWB for anything, nor am I saying anyone is doing anything they shouldn't be doing, but it seems slightly abusive in this instance. Maybe this sounds like sour grapes, but when a fight on a given map is a virtual auto-win for a character, that tells me that maybe the map needs some adjustment. In hindsight, we would have been better off surrendering, just to save the item usage.
Zevox 07-24-06, 10:23 PM	As far as the fight is concerned, I'm not going to ask for any edits, but I have to say that I am starting to understand the bias against Zero. I know of no character that can beat Zero on this map off the top of my head, because there is no reason for Zero to ever leave the cover of the water, which means he can *always snipe, due to always having cover. I can't sit here and blame MWB for anything, nor am I saying anyone is doing anything they shouldn't be doing, but it seems slightly abusive in this instance. Maybe this sounds like sour grapes, but when a fight on a given map is a virtual auto-win for a character, that tells me that maybe the map needs some adjustment. In hindsight, we would have been better off surrendering, just to save the item usage. Indeed. That, and how incredibly annoying his fights have proven to pitlord (like I said, this was one of his better ones, and it took nearly 40 rounds of him firing and you two unable to do anything), would be exactly the reason I groan as much as I do when I get his fights. I'm just thankful none of my characters are in his league, and unless something changes they never will be - hes just behind Asran and right ahead of Eraca. As for someone able to beat him on that map, I'd imagine a wizard with some fireballs (perhaps a wand of fireball, or anyone with a necklace of fireballs) and a good listen check could manage. Or a wizard or psion with Dispel Magic/Psionics to get rid of his hiding buffs and a good enough listen and spot check to do so and take advantage of it. Or just someone with an excellent listen check (many Druids fit that bill - I know Destra and Aerryl at least would stand a chance against his move silently modifier). It certainly isn't easy, and fighting him there is an auto-loss for many, but it would still be possible. Zevox
TheMagister 07-24-06, 10:39 PM	"Which way did he go, George; which way did he go?" Has anyone seen Huan around? It's getting kinda late for Mssr. Hood's fight. TM
Zevox 07-24-06, 10:41 PM	"Which way did he go, George; which way did he go?" Has anyone seen Huan around? It's getting kinda late for Mssr. Hood's fight. TM Huan's always late - frequently his fights don't get posted until Tuesday night. He runs them all before posting them so he can put them all up at once (or at least thats the way its seemed to me). I wouldn't worry about it unless he hasn't posted it by tomorrow night. Its been a long time since I last saw him fail to post a fight (actually, I'm not sure I've ever seen that happen). Zevox
hogarth 07-24-06, 10:50 PM	As for someone able to beat him on that map, I'd imagine a wizard with some fireballs (perhaps a wand of fireball, or anyone with a necklace of fireballs) and a good listen check could manage. Or a wizard or psion with Dispel Magic/Psionics to get rid of his hiding buffs and a good enough listen and spot check to do so and take advantage of it. Or just someone with an excellent listen check (many Druids fit that bill - I know Destra and Aerryl at least would stand a chance against his move silently modifier). ...or a wizard with Glitterdust (-40 to hide checks!) or anyone with Dust of Appearance. Or anyone with a tattoo of Touchsight. Or anyone with a Dire Bat ally. Or even an animal ally with the Scent ability!
SauroGrenom 07-24-06, 11:14 PM	Valek vs Death is finally finished. Ugh... another very long battle with one of NiQil's dwarven warrior characters. A true fight of dueling CLW wands...over 120 rounds. The winner didn't win much considering all the resources expended in the battle. I'll be the first to admit that there are several minor errors here and there. I'm sure you will find a few places where I didn't calculate a modifier on a roll correctly. I caught myself making several such errors, but they are small and I don't think any of them make a difference on the rolls.
Book5 07-24-06, 11:21 PM	ok, couple questions - before I post the results... is wild empathy a valid "win" vs an animal opponent? spike growth says "one 20-ft circle per level" ... at 9th wouldnt that cover the entire freakin arena? .... practically? (well like half anyway..... all at whatever 15th? ) Should an animal intelligent creature get money spent on it for .. barding or whatever? "treat the monster like a gladiator...." but it has a flipping 2 intelligence ??
Zevox 07-24-06, 11:26 PM	...or a wizard with Glitterdust (-40 to hide checks!) or anyone with Dust of Appearance. Or anyone with a tattoo of Touchsight. Or anyone with a Dire Bat ally. Or even an animal ally with the Scent ability! Well, glitterdust only lasts for 1 round per level, so its rather limited, and Zero could just retreat until it wears off (I imagine MWB would have that in his tactics if he faced a foe with it). Dust of appearance would be hard to work since it only coats things in a 10' radius, meaning you need to narrow down Zero's position to that much (and its arguable wether submersing himself would just wash that off or not too). An animal with scent he could just stay out of its range or lead it to a spot where can be out of its range - that only has a range of 30' and doesn't auto pinpoint unless hes 5' away. Touchsight and Dire Bat/Bat Swarm allies would be a good way to do it on this map though, since the corridors are rather short. Good catch there. Zevox
NiQil 07-24-06, 11:32 PM	Valek vs Death is finally finished. Ugh... another very long battle with one of NiQil's dwarven warrior characters. A true fight of dueling CLW wands...over 120 rounds. The winner didn't win much considering all the resources expended in the battle. I'll be the first to admit that there are several minor errors here and there. I'm sure you will find a few places where I didn't calculate a modifier on a roll correctly. I caught myself making several such errors, but they are small and I don't think any of them make a difference on the rolls. First, thanks for running the fight. That being said....yer gonna hate me here...but there is a very large problem with this battle. Death has a second full healing wand. General tactics state to use any and all equipment whenever necessary. This would be one of those times. No reason for Death to not continue healing as long as he has a second wand there. That is precisely the reason he has more than one. Also, as stated in my general tactics, all melee attacks should be made one handed unless otherwise specified so as to not lose my shield bonus to AC from the mithral buckler. I would very much appreciate it if you could correct these issues.
Zevox 07-24-06, 11:33 PM	is wild empathy a valid "win" vs an animal opponent? I doubt it. That can be used to change the animal's attitude towards you, but this is supposed to be an arena fight, so I would think you have to actually defeat it. spike growth says "one 20-ft circle per level" ... at 9th wouldnt that cover the entire freakin arena? .... practically? (well like half anyway..... all at whatever 15th? ) Depends on the arena. Don't forget every spot you want to cover has to be in sight and in range of the spell too. It could potentially do that though, yes. Should an animal intelligent creature get money spent on it for .. barding or whatever? "treat the monster like a gladiator...." but it has a flipping 2 intelligence ?? Remember that creatures equipment is based on thier treasure entry too. Animals tend to have a "none" there, so it wouldn't get equipment. Zevox
Book5 07-24-06, 11:44 PM	I doubt it. That can be used to change the animal's attitude towards you, but this is supposed to be an arena fight, so I would think you have to actually defeat it. Zevox Well.... using that logic we would effectivly be removing one of the druid special abilities.. saying "its not fair" or something - but really - thats why you want to be a druid in the woods.. animals like you .. rolled three bears on the monster fight.. lucky druid! thusly - Aerryl beats up on those of lesser intellect! woot! I ran another pit fight.. sorta.
Abyssal Stalker 07-25-06, 12:19 AM	@Abyssal - Elementals are not subject to critical hits: Should have checked that one...now I have to go back quite a lot. Oh well. I'm at work now, but I'll try to finish the fight as soon as I get home. It was turning to midnight and I have to get up 5.30, so I had to stop last night.
King Uther 07-25-06, 12:29 AM	Jazer will attempt to entangle Anakala is the elementals are dead. Should be a good fight.
Zevox 07-25-06, 01:08 AM	Well.... using that logic we would effectivly be removing one of the druid special abilities.. saying "its not fair" or something - but really - thats why you want to be a druid in the woods.. animals like you .. rolled three bears on the monster fight.. lucky druid! *shrug* We effectively removed the Bard's Fascinate ability. I hardly think that saying Druids can't auto-win against animals just by making them friendly is unreasonable, particularly considering that you're talking about using a single skill-equivalent ability check to automatically win against that creature in an arena environment. This is where the difference between the arena and a true tabletop game comes in - you want a Druid to help with animals in a true TT game, but here you actually have to beat them if you want the rewards, because thats the way the arena works. Its not there to simulate the environment of a TT game, its there for combat excercises. Zevox
hogarth 07-25-06, 07:14 AM	Well, glitterdust only lasts for 1 round per level, so its rather limited, and Zero could just retreat until it wears off (I imagine MWB would have that in his tactics if he faced a foe with it). There aren't that many places to run on the sewer map (leaving aside the fact that the enemy might be blind). If your wizard is taking more than 5 rounds to mess someone up, then he's probably not using the right spells. ;) An animal with scent he could just stay out of its range or lead it to a spot where can be out of its range - that only has a range of 30' and doesn't auto pinpoint unless hes 5' away. The corridors are very narrow; if an animal uses the run action to move down the corridors, it's almost guaranteed to pass within 5' of him. With regards to the sewer map, there are some spots where it would be impossible to attacked unless your opponent were very close (e.g. diagonally opposite from one of the starting boxes). If someone is attacking you there, they must be within a short distance. At least you should be able to force the enemy to come quite close.
SoulLord 07-25-06, 10:09 AM	Well.... using that logic we would effectivly be removing one of the druid special abilities.. saying "its not fair" or something - but really - thats why you want to be a druid in the woods.. animals like you .. rolled three bears on the monster fight.. lucky druid! thusly - Aerryl beats up on those of lesser intellect! woot! I ran another pit fight.. sorta. Actually I think thats where you reroll monsters its like when your flying gladiator gets paired against a monster who doenst fly with no ranged attacks. The pitlord must reroll this cases and so would he have to reroll in the case of the druid being paired against animals.
TelinArtho 07-25-06, 10:35 AM	There aren't that many places to run on the sewer map (leaving aside the fact that the enemy might be blind). If your wizard is taking more than 5 rounds to mess someone up, then he's probably not using the right spells. ;) Well, the problem is that the dragon can single move up to 150ft - which puts him at the other side of the map - and therefore - likely out of sight and reach of any character. The corridors are very narrow; if an animal uses the run action to move down the corridors, it's almost guaranteed to pass within 5' of him. In this case, if the animal is large sized - he definitely can't run (unless it is able to fly) because of the hampered movement of the terrain. If it is medium sized, it probably can't run either because there's too many turns. Even with Fleet of foot - you probably can't fully run because of the way the water is set up. With regards to the sewer map, there are some spots where it would be impossible to attacked unless your opponent were very close (e.g. diagonally opposite from one of the starting boxes). If someone is attacking you there, they must be within a short distance. At least you should be able to force the enemy to come quite close. While this is true - Zero has a knack for not being seen on this map even from 5ft away. I think the problem with Zero and this map stems from a lack of forethought about the hindering terrain. In my opinion, the water was "supposed" to be used as a hindrance to speed (for characters like Sir Valkin), not for an "auto-win" for characters who are tiny, have great hide/MS and buffing items to improve it. That being said - the fact of the matter is that Zero is very well built. This is apparent when you look at his potential outside of the Sewer map. In the great hall - where he can't burrow - he is at the most distinct disadvantage for his abilities - but his fly speed can overcome just about all of that. His blindsight can overcome all but the speediest of opponents, and even when it can't - his touch AC is high enough that getting in a single attack against him - may not be enough to finish the fight off. Zero can be extremely fragile. If and when someone grapples him - the fight is likely all over for him. Against someone who can use fire area effects and who can narrow down his area significantly - would also take him down fairly quickly. If Zero comes up against someone with a decent listen/spot - it is very possible that he would be up against someone who can take him down quickly.
hogarth 07-25-06, 10:44 AM	is wild empathy a valid "win" vs an animal opponent? Remember that Wild Empathy takes a -10 penalty if you use it as a full-round action and it's a DC 25 check to improve an attitude from Hostile to Indifferent. Also note (under Diplomacy): If the initial check fails, the other character has probably become more firmly committed to his position, and a retry is futile.
hogarth 07-25-06, 10:51 AM	I think the problem with Zero and this map stems from a lack of forethought about the hindering terrain. In my opinion, the water was "supposed" to be used as a hindrance to speed (for characters like Sir Valkin), not for an "auto-win" for characters who are tiny, have great hide/MS and buffing items to improve it. I term I dislike here is "auto-win"; Zero has a huge advantage, but if a 5th-level character isn't prepared to counter invisibile/hidden opponents, the player has to share some of the blame. Then again, I think it's ridiculous that a character isn't allowed to notice which direction sniping attacks are coming from; I think a DC 10 Wisdom check (or something like that) should be sufficient. Just my 2 cents. (I'm sure I'll change my tune when I have to face the same thing! :D )
TelinArtho 07-25-06, 10:56 AM	LEVEL 3 FIGHTS Kultak (Setzertrancer) vs. Indrithia Celeth (Zevox) : DSugui [Temple] Ihdald Seaslash (Milov) vs. Treetall Oakleg (hogarth) : DSugui [Sewer] Session started in CoCo Roller - not posted yet. Darrgon (TelinArtho) vs. Monsieur Hood (TheMagister) : Huan [Temple] LEVEL 4 FIGHTS Undertaker (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Annalina Vale (Zevox) : Huan [Temple] Quesis II (Dracazar) vs. Bilk Stonespike (King Uther) : bluemage55 [Temple] Anakala (TelinArtho) vs. Cyalin the Raven (King Uther) : Abyssal Stalker [Plains] In progress Well, its Tuesday. Here's the fights that remain to be run. As usual, if you are a pitlord who has an outstanding fight and still intend to run it - please say so. Huan usually posts his fights late - but he's never not posted one to my knowledge - so I would say he qualifies as intending to run the fights - unless he says otherwise. For any fights that are unaccounted for, I will happily take the tactics and run them. I am currently without internet at home - so my availability is more limited this week than normal.
TelinArtho 07-25-06, 10:58 AM	I term I dislike here is "auto-win"; Zero has a huge advantage, but if a 5th-level character isn't prepared to counter invisibile/hidden opponents, the player has to share some of the blame. Then again, I think it's ridiculous that a character isn't allowed to notice which direction sniping attacks are coming from; I think a DC 10 Wisdom check (or something like that) should be sufficient. Just my 2 cents. (I'm sure I'll change my tune when I have to face the same thing! :D ) I'd like to see how many non-rogues can overcome Zero's hide and move silently consistently enough to be able to corner him into a grapple. I agree on the sniping attacks thing though - it should be quite obvious from which direction it comes from (and that's how I've always run my fights - though I haven't had a sniping fight since my return and I think that was a change/clarification from the period I was absent).
hogarth 07-25-06, 11:03 AM	I'd like to see how many non-rogues can overcome Zero's hide and move silently consistently enough to be able to corner him into a grapple. You overcome the hide check by using things that auto-pinpoint hidden foes (tattoo of Touchsight, allies with blindsense or scent, etc.). You have to get fairly close for them to work, but I pointed out earlier that there are places on the map where he would have to get close to attack.
TelinArtho 07-25-06, 11:10 AM	And all of those would be pretty easy to overcome for Zero - since he can fly-by-attack the opponents that can detect him... Also, unless you specifically have the blindsight/sense - the ally is going to have to be very quick on the draw to relay the information in a way that you can use. In other words - a dire bat probably won't be the best source of the blindsense and unless you start readying actions - it won't make a lick of difference. Also - since Zero typically benefits from total cover/improved cover - you don't get to make AoO against him - so readying to move to base doesn't even help... In other words - Zero's hiding tactics are extremely effective, but they are certainly not the only trick up his sleeve.
TelinArtho 07-25-06, 11:16 AM	Jazer will attempt to entangle Anakala is the elementals are dead. Should be a good fight. Yeah- I got overconfident with this one - and it shows through... I sometimes make that mistake.
Sindorin 07-25-06, 11:53 AM	I personally do not think that there is any reason for bias against Zero's build... it is very effective and by the core rules. Well done, MWB.
MindWandererB 07-25-06, 12:59 PM	Thanks, Sin. Of course, you haven't had to run him yet. I do plan on making him a little less painful as he levels, but then of course my opponents will have higher ACs and more HPs. So, we'll see. I spend a lot of time thinking about building this character; he was a halfling assassin at one point, and a goblin mountie, and a forest gnome cleric/bard, until I stumbled across the fact that a forest gnome's Hide is effectively the same as a Tiny creature. The 150' fly speed sealed the deal. The burrow and swim speeds are just a bonus, in theory (especially since there were no water maps at the time)--but man, am I making more use out of them than I ever imagined. @Book5: For what it's worth, I agree that Wild Empathy shouldn't work in the arena. For one, you can't simply convince a bad guy to not be your enemy, you still have to kill them. (I recall a very memorable FFA involving Trixie the kobold enchantress and Challack the half-orc barbarian, where this was an issue.) For another, Wild Empathy is just like Diplomacy but for animals, and we wouldn't allow Diplomacy to "defeat" an intelligent opponent. Edit, also @Book5: Just looked at the fight. Well, it technically wasn't an auto-win because of the Ettin, so a reroll wasn't necessary. I don't agree with your description of the ettin as "Large Monster," (perhaps "large biped"), but it doesn't matter now. There were a couple of mistakes; every round in which Aerryl throws fire, she should Rapid Shot, since she isn't moving and thus doesn't need to be limited to single attacks. Also, the bear has no capacity to injure the swarm (immune to weapon damage). Only the swarm part needs to be edited (because if it died, it would need to be noted in the summary, and be unavailable for the next fight). Also the rewards are wrong: they should be (900+506*3)*(1-(.25*2/7)) = 2245 xp (that's the xp from the ettin plus the xp for each of three bears, times the penalty for a character with a MaxCA of 7 bringing a CR2 ally). And therefore 3727 gp, by the 1:1.66 ratio. Please correct those two things at your earliest convenience. Thanks! @Zevox: On checking, I actually see that you have run every single one of Zero's long fights. The only times you haven't run him were: 1) Opponent surrendered, 2) Opponent killed him with an early crit, and 3) Opponent got speedy and grappled him. Both if his two losses were in the Temple, his worst map.
Abyssal Stalker 07-25-06, 03:08 PM	Anakala vs Cyalin is done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9672340&postcount=765). I'm really sorry that the fight is messy and doesn't actually fill the required standards. I had it all done and I was writing down the result of the fight when my computer crashed. And of course everything I had done in the last three hours was lost... I just can't find the time to recalculate all the coordinates. I hope that you can accept the fight as it stands, unless of course there is some cardinal mistake like in the first version.
DSugui 07-25-06, 03:12 PM	Ihdald Seaslash (Milov) vs. Treetall Oakleg (hogarth) is up HERE
hogarth 07-25-06, 03:30 PM	Ihdald Seaslash (Milov) vs. Treetall Oakleg (hogarth) is up HERE Thanks for the pitlording, DSugui! Everything looked good to me, although I would have thought using a Bag of Tricks was a standard action. There's nothing in the description that says it's a full-round action, and the rules say that activating a wondrous item is a standard action "unless stated otherwise". I can see some sense to the point of view that it's effectively simulating Summon Nature's Ally and thus should have the same "casting" time, I suppose. Another thing I was wondering about was Treetall "stowing" his bag. I had intended for him to keep it in his hand at all times (except when loading his sling, a 2-handed activity). I'm not even sure where he was stowing it! It's not as if he has a backpack or anything like that.. Last, you gave Treetall a large penalty (-11) to hear Ihdald from where he started. But according to the Sewer map, there's a pipe that leads from the one starting area to the other that treats the two squares as adjacent, so it should have been easier to hear Ihdald sneaking. None of these are very important, though.
TelinArtho 07-25-06, 03:36 PM	Thanks for the pitlording, DSugui! Everything looked good to me, although I would have thought using a Bag of Tricks was a standard action. There's nothing in the description that says it's a full-round action, and the rules say that activating a wondrous item is a standard action "unless stated otherwise". I can see some sense to the point of view that it's effectively simulating Summon Nature's Ally and thus should have the same "casting" time, I suppose. Using a bag of tricks is a standard action. DSugui is in error. @Abyssal - well - like I said, I didn't do a very good job with being specific in my tactics, so any comments I have are easily countered with - "Your tactics weren't specific enough." In any case, the rewards need to be adjusted: Jazer is ECL1, Cyalin's MaxCA is 2, so the penalty for Cyalin is 12.5% Souffle and Vent are each CR1, and Ana's MaxCA is 2, so the penalty for Ana is 25%. The net is that Cyalin gets a 12.5% bonus; Ana gets a 12.5% penalty.
SauroGrenom 07-25-06, 03:50 PM	First, thanks for running the fight. That being said....yer gonna hate me here...but there is a very large problem with this battle. Death has a second full healing wand. General tactics state to use any and all equipment whenever necessary. This would be one of those times. No reason for Death to not continue healing as long as he has a second wand there. That is precisely the reason he has more than one. Also, as stated in my general tactics, all melee attacks should be made one handed unless otherwise specified so as to not lose my shield bonus to AC from the mithral buckler. I would very much appreciate it if you could correct these issues. Fine. I'm rerunning the fight. What follows is kind of a rant because I'm feeling irate about this battle. Just for the record, let me state that this is the worst fight I have ever run. It is even worse than the previous worst fight that I ever ran involving one of NiQil's other dwarven archers in a battle to see who runs out of arrows and CLW charges first. This battle has a dwarven warrior who actually has many many interesting options at his disposal, but who has very very basic tactics that dictate the fight to being about fighting till whomever runs out of CLW charges first. This sucks... Death can sunder the opponent's wand easily. He can sunder Valek's shield easily (increasing damage output). He can easily grapple Valek to death with Armor Spikes. But none of that is in your tactics. Rather fight one handed, and use a CLW wand to never die untill the enemy runs out of healing magic (All ****ing 48 charges of the wand). Then I have a Xeph warrior who has a tactic that is obviously not well thought out. He is using a weapon with only 5.5 average damage and trying to sunder a wand with hardness of 5. On average it should take 10 successful sunder attempts to destroy the wand, but he has only +1 modifier better than his opponent on the sunder checks. So I'm required to run an average of 20 rounds of sundering combat to destroy the wand. Then his opponent has TWO WANDS!!!!!!!!! So that means I must run about 40 ROUNDS of sundering attempts. All the while he is getting chewed up by his opponents superior damage output and running away to heal every few rounds. This is disgusting. No tactical acumen. No insight. No well thought out plans. No fun at all to run a battle like this. I really wish I could just say you both loose.
DSugui 07-25-06, 04:08 PM	@hogarth & Telin: I though I could be wrong on this. My idea was that one need to pull the ball and throw it, what would be an Move action and a Standart action, thus being a Full Round action in the end. But it does not matter for this fight, so I will let that way. @Sauro: Weel, what can I say? Valek is a loser, and the main reason is the lack of damage output. I was considering to retire him a while ago, but I want to see him as I though when I built him - an elocater. But this fight is what I was waiting to express an idea I have for a time now: we should limit wands use. All other expendables are limited, but wands (which are the cheapest expendable if you think on cost per use) are not. Wands should be limited to a number of charges per fight (I say 15 charges/fight) so ridiculous fights as this one would never happen.
Iced 07-25-06, 04:26 PM	Fine. I'm rerunning the fight. What follows is kind of a rant because I'm feeling irate about this battle. Just for the record, let me state that this is the worst fight I have ever run. It is even worse than the previous worst fight that I ever ran involving one of NiQil's other dwarven archers in a battle to see who runs out of arrows and CLW charges first. This battle has a dwarven warrior who actually has many many interesting options at his disposal, but who has very very basic tactics that dictate the fight to being about fighting till whomever runs out of CLW charges first. This sucks... Death can sunder the opponent's wand easily. He can sunder Valek's shield easily (increasing damage output). He can easily grapple Valek to death with Armor Spikes. But none of that is in your tactics. Rather fight one handed, and use a CLW wand to never die untill the enemy runs out of healing magic (All ****ing 48 charges of the wand). Then I have a Xeph warrior who has a tactic that is obviously not well thought out. He is using a weapon with only 5.5 average damage and trying to sunder a wand with hardness of 5. On average it should take 10 successful sunder attempts to destroy the wand, but he has only +1 modifier better than his opponent on the sunder checks. So I'm required to run an average of 20 rounds of sundering combat to destroy the wand. Then his opponent has TWO WANDS!!!!!!!!! So that means I must run about 40 ROUNDS of sundering attempts. All the while he is getting chewed up by his opponents superior damage output and running away to heal every few rounds. This is disgusting. No tactical acumen. No insight. No well thought out plans. No fun at all to run a battle like this. I really wish I could just say you both loose. Agreed. ~Iced
SauroGrenom 07-25-06, 04:32 PM	@Sauro: Weel, what can I say? Valek is a loser, and the main reason is the lack of damage output. I was considering to retire him a while ago, but I want to see him as I though when I built him - an elocater. But this fight is what I was waiting to express an idea I have for a time now: we should limit wands use. All other expendables are limited, but wands (which are the cheapest expendable if you think on cost per use) are not. Wands should be limited to a number of charges per fight (I say 15 charges/fight) so ridiculous fights as this one would never happen. You could have done something realy smart like try and trap him into a grapple without a wand in hand. You could have forced a few rounds of ranged fighting as you close into distance for a charge. Then charge in there with a CLW wand in hand and a shortsword in the other. Then he can be stuck with a bow in hand and he cannot draw his wand and he must use armor spikes. So the grappling damage output is about even and you get to have healing while he does not. This kind of creative tactics is what Valek needs. The character can be a success in some circumstances.
TelinArtho 07-25-06, 04:33 PM	@hogarth & Telin: I though I could be wrong on this. My idea was that one need to pull the ball and throw it, what would be an Move action and a Standart action, thus being a Full Round action in the end. But it does not matter for this fight, so I will let that way. Well, the simplest answer here is that all wondrous items that are use activated are standard actions unless otherwise specified: Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all. And the description for the bag of tricks makes no specific mention on time: Bag of Tricks: This small sack appears normal and empty. However, anyone reaching into the bag feels a small, fuzzy ball. If the ball is removed and tossed up to 20 feet away, it turns into an animal. The animal serves the character who drew it from the bag for 10 minutes (or until slain or ordered back into the bag), at which point it disappears. It can follow any of the commands described in the Handle Animal skill. Each of the three kinds of a bag of tricks produces a different set of animals. Use the following tables to determine what animals can be drawn out of each. The heavy warhorse appears with harness and tack and accepts the character who drew it from the bag as a rider. Animals produced are always random, and only one may exist at a time. Up to ten animals can be drawn from the bag each week. So the action of removing the ball and tossing it up to 20ft away is the standard action for the use of the bag of tricks.
Book5 07-25-06, 07:12 PM	Please correct those two things at your earliest convenience. Thanks! The outcome doesnt change so I just noted the alterations at the bottom, cool? Regarding reroll... I did reroll once.. wanted to get things going.. Ettin? Wel.... I probably should have - but! Aerryl's pretty tough regardless. main got! you guys impress me - it takes me so long to do this! mmm, internet... should be back just in time for Vath's MQ! :D:D:D:D
DSugui 07-25-06, 09:31 PM	Kultak (Setzertrancer) vs. Indrithia Celeth (Zevox is up HERE
NiQil 07-25-06, 09:59 PM	Fine. I'm rerunning the fight. What follows is kind of a rant because I'm feeling irate about this battle. Just for the record, let me state that this is the worst fight I have ever run. It is even worse than the previous worst fight that I ever ran involving one of NiQil's other dwarven archers in a battle to see who runs out of arrows and CLW charges first. This battle has a dwarven warrior who actually has many many interesting options at his disposal, but who has very very basic tactics that dictate the fight to being about fighting till whomever runs out of CLW charges first. This sucks... Death can sunder the opponent's wand easily. He can sunder Valek's shield easily (increasing damage output). He can easily grapple Valek to death with Armor Spikes. But none of that is in your tactics. Rather fight one handed, and use a CLW wand to never die untill the enemy runs out of healing magic (All ****ing 48 charges of the wand). Then I have a Xeph warrior who has a tactic that is obviously not well thought out. He is using a weapon with only 5.5 average damage and trying to sunder a wand with hardness of 5. On average it should take 10 successful sunder attempts to destroy the wand, but he has only +1 modifier better than his opponent on the sunder checks. So I'm required to run an average of 20 rounds of sundering combat to destroy the wand. Then his opponent has TWO WANDS!!!!!!!!! So that means I must run about 40 ROUNDS of sundering attempts. All the while he is getting chewed up by his opponents superior damage output and running away to heal every few rounds. This is disgusting. No tactical acumen. No insight. No well thought out plans. No fun at all to run a battle like this. I really wish I could just say you both loose. And apparantly if things aren't done your way or to your satisfaction, they are being done the wrong way? That's basically what I got out of this whole thing. No one here has the right to criticize or belittle someone else the way you just did in talking about the tactics submitted. Neither DSugui nor myself deserve it. Neither of us had any way to know what the other was going to do. It just so happened that our combined tactics worked out as they did. We both submitted tactics that we thought would give us the best chance to win. To come down on someone for that, as you just did, is inexcuseable. I'm not going to sit here and defend the way I run my characters, because I don't have to, nor should I. Constructive criticism is one thing....ranting another...this went way over the line in both directions. And that's all I will say on that subject. Now...that all being said...do I understand your frustration? Yes I do. Cheap and easy healing is a must-have in this arena...there's not really any way to be successful without it. I loathe expendables on my characters. If I could get away with no healing of any kind, I would be more than happy to do so. But it's no fun to see your characters lose over and over and over because someone else has it and you don't. So I use it, because everyone else does. Unfortunately, as more and more people realize that cheap and easy healing is a must for their characters to have a realistic chance at success, this type of scenerio will happen more and more often. I've seen it mentioned a couple of times now that wands should be limited. I don't think that is the solution. Wands aren't the problem....healing is the problem. No one is complaining about wands of fireball or wands of magic missile anymore now that there is an ECL cap on them. Apparantly it's just healing wands that everyone seems to have a problem with. Not that they are overpowered....just that they are used by almost everyone, and almost all of the time. It's a byproduct of any arena setting. Short of banning healing wands altogether (in which case people will just stock up on potions), I don't see that further altering of wand rules is going to change anything. But I leave that topic for another day. I once again thank you for the run, and hope that future fights bring you more fun than this one apparantly did.
TelinArtho 07-25-06, 10:43 PM	@Huan and theMagister - although Darrgon was incorrectly placed to start the match, I have check what would've been the correct location and found I would've still been in line of sight... Nice hit sir.
Zevox 07-25-06, 10:49 PM	@Zevox: If you depended on luck to win this won, I would say you were screwed. Yeah, thats been the way Indrithia has been since I made her. As unlucky as Sir Alboreth was lucky. If it could go wrong in most of her matches, it did. I'm just fortunate that this one was nearly an auto-win for her, since Kultak didn't have a melee weapon. Zevox
TheMagister 07-25-06, 11:15 PM	@Huan and theMagister - although Darrgon was incorrectly placed to start the match, I have check what would've been the correct location and found I would've still been in line of sight... Nice hit sir. Like my tactics said, there was a 50/50 chance that I'd win initiative, and then a 66% chance you'd end up in a starting block that I could see you in (well, I didn't mention the 66% chance, but I was thinkin' it). That one hit was all I needed. Psionic Archers are bad news. I'm surprised there aren't more of them. Well, it looks like we both totally expected the other's tactics. I was expecting a hippogriff, but hawks aren't much different. I think I had the better chance to win this one, all around. Not looking forward to facing Darrgon later, though. Thanks! tM
Traevanon 07-26-06, 12:01 AM	@Sauro and NiQil: The debate you are opening now is the same as I began discussing in the Council thread. What it boils down to is this: Some gladiators try to eliminate any chance of failure first, so long as they have any chance of offense remaining. They maximize movement rate, hiding skills, defense or healing and as long as they maintain that 1 in 20 chance each round of making progress they are happy. Obviously this can result in some VERY long matches. Unreasonably long. I dont mind someone using their best tactics regardless of how boring it may be, but if it comes at my expense (timewise) week in and week out we have a problem. This isnt specifically directed at the Horsemen, though they are obviously guilty of it. Its also the fliers without decent ranged attack skills, the high movement people with limited attack capabilities, the hiders and sneakers who cant hit the broadside of a dwarf, and the buffers who dont have any spells left to do damage with. It doesnt take a genius to figure out that this is the reason you have a few dedicated pitlords doing 6 combats each, a handful of others doing one per person and nobody else. The job bites. I hope that you understand that the unpredictability of the length of combat is also a primary reason that I cannot commit to more than one in a week. I might get one that's done in one round, but then again I might get one that goes on and on... Something must be done. It took some time, but I think I've come up with a reasonable solution within the rules. I will note in my pitlord entry in the Pitlords of Gladius thread that I have time to do a maximum of 40 rounds of combat in one week. Should a match go over 40 rounds, it will be held over into the next week (or more) until completed. With any luck, this will allow me to more reasonably predict how much time I will have to commit to this hobby each week and allow me to take more matches. If this is not acceptable I'll probably soon be forced to back away from Pitlording.
TelinArtho 07-26-06, 11:13 AM	It doesnt take a genius to figure out that this is the reason you have a few dedicated pitlords doing 6 combats each, a handful of others doing one per person and nobody else. The job bites. Actually - this is the way it always has been. When I was active ~6 months ago, we had 40-50 fights per week. 3-4 pitlords were set to max and the rest were pretty much 1/pitlord. I want to point out that I actually enjoy pitlording. Yes, I get occasional fights that I don't like, but in the end - I do it because I enjoy it. If it ceased to be enjoyable - I simply wouldn't do it. That being said - I understand that some people, such as you, feel that it is a thankless job. If you feel that way, well and truly, I'd recommend not pitlording. Yes- the community needs more pitlords - but at the same time, it doesn't benefit the community to have people complain about being a pitlord. It is a volunteer position. If you don't like it - don't do it - but for the sake of the community - don't tell everyone that it is a horrible job. If even one of those statements deters someone from giving pitlording a shot - I'd be very upset. Like I said - if you can't find enjoyment in it - I don't see why you would do it. There are plenty who do find enjoyment in it though - so please don't deter others from trying it out because of a few bad experiences. Also @Sauro - I want to remind you that the FotW threads should always remain courteous. While you may not like the tactics a particular player has submitted - I agree with NiQil that your tone was very much over the top. If you are frustrated - find another avenue to express it - don't take it out on the community.
Traevanon 07-26-06, 12:44 PM	I dont even know how to respond to that Telin... You see me as complaining, I see problems in the (house)rules that encourage fights to be long and arduous. Why not sit behind a rock and let my opponent fire all 43 arrows at me? Its the logical thing to do. So next time we fight he brings 430 arrows instead? It doesnt cost me (as a gladiator) a moment's more time to allow him to rattle off all 430. Ever watched any Arena fighting on TV? Why would the gladiators want to fight? One of them is going to die. They dont hate each other, why would they fight if they dont have to? They fight because if they dont, they both die. If they show any signs of delay, the tigers get released, the arrows start to fly, the spinning blades start to whirl. Why dont we have any of that here? Why is the pitlord at the mercy of the gladiators to resolve the match when it may not even be in the gladiator's best interest to do so? Dont you see how this can create a situation where nice players lose and unreasonable ones win? Then again maybe I'm just complaining to hear myself complain. Like I said - if you can't find enjoyment in it - I don't see why you would do it. To try to make it better.
TelinArtho 07-26-06, 01:07 PM	The problem is that an arena with a time limit really does cut down on options. A sneaky build would be under undue pressure to initiate things when really it is best if it takes its time. As to hunkering down behind cover - that's often done and there's good reason for it - sometimes getting into melee isn't possible for one party while the other has greater mobility. Should the slower opponent who is better at melee just keep trying to follow and give up the fight when hunkering down behind cover gives them at least a chance to succeed? You can't fault the slow fighter in full plate for not having a 20 dex to be as effective in melee; you can't fault the druid on a dire bat for having a 10 str and 10 dex and using all his spells. Sometimes - things take longer than expected. It happens. Some people will carry around 200+ arrows (Zero), others will carry around what they expect they will need for a 3 fight cycle. If the latter plans poorly and runs out of arrows - for the next cycle are they going to buy another 20 and just hope that it doesn't happen again? Probably not - they will try to plan to have enough so they don't have to resort to backup or subpar tactics. Dont you see how this can create a situation where nice players lose and unreasonable ones win? I don't agree with this at all. What makes someone who has a) the carrying capacity and b) the extra resources unreasonable? Is it because they are willing to cripple themselves later in order to get themselves a victory now? What makes a nice player? This is all very subjective - and it is tough to adjudicate. Take for instance a fight between Noko (a pixie rogue - greater invisibility) and Kraegin (my summoner cleric with only Invisibility Purge to get past the invisibility). In that fight, Kraegin's only possible tactic at the time (after a few failed ones) was to outlast Noko's arrows - which he almost did. Had he had a wand of CLW - he would have succeeded without issue. Once Noko's arrows ran out - Noko would be forced to come into range of Kraegin's view - and so Kraegin could have a chance of winning there. Is Kraegin wrong for taking up cover, and using full defense and healing in this case? Am I being unreasonable for wanting to survive through 60+ arrows? Is it unreasonable for the pixie to want to stay outside the range of the invisibility purge in order to benefit from her invisibility? What you are detailing is a "perfect world" where gladiators are pit against each other in a relatively close quarters with a limited time frame. This scenario favors extreme heavy hitters with lightning quick reflexes. The people with the highest initiative able to kill in a single hit will succeed here - while the "whittlers" - the rogues and bards and other light damage characters - will certainly fall far behind. The arena is set up in this way to attempt to be the most fair to the gladiators involved - to give the most gladiators the most variety of situations to work with. As a necessary evil this makes it a little tougher on the pitlords because of the uncertainty about the time involved. In the end, I would rather see potential long combat situations that resolve things according to the way the players involved saw it then potential short ones where the pitlord has a heavy hand adjudicating tactics that the players didn't want to employ/didn't think of.
SoulLord 07-26-06, 01:07 PM	Actually that doesnt sound so bad.... After a combined 20 rounds of delay let loose the dragons enchanted with see invisibility One of the proper CR for each gladiator breaking the delay rule.
MindWandererB 07-26-06, 02:18 PM	It took some time, but I think I've come up with a reasonable solution within the rules. I will note in my pitlord entry in the Pitlords of Gladius thread that I have time to do a maximum of 40 rounds of combat in one week. Should a match go over 40 rounds, it will be held over into the next week (or more) until completed. With any luck, this will allow me to more reasonably predict how much time I will have to commit to this hobby each week and allow me to take more matches. If this is not acceptable I'll probably soon be forced to back away from Pitlording.What this will force people to do is request a different pitlord. If you have your own personal rule about forcing people to take two (or three, or sometimes even four) weeks to run a single fight, then everyone with a moderately defensive tactic--including almost every character with a CLW wand and a higher AC than attack bonus, as well as the sneaks, and a few other characters--will simply have to ask for someone else, because you won't give them the "fair" treatment we are entitled to by the rules. This will be a nightmare for Cat, but he won't really have any choice if we say, "Trae is telling us he won't finish this fight." So no, I don't think this solution will work. And for the record, I felt that your tone was quite reasonable. You were obviously frustrated, which was your intent to convey, but you tried to avoid accusing anyone or taking a hostile or derogatory attitude. Considering how you felt, I thought you were quite controlled. You should probably stay away from the profanity, though, even censored.
hogarth 07-26-06, 02:32 PM	Short of banning healing wands altogether (in which case people will just stock up on potions), I don't see that further altering of wand rules is going to change anything. But I leave that topic for another day. Note, however, that there's a regulatory cap on the number of potions you can bring but not on the number of wand charges you can use. As a newcomer here, I'm just curious: what's the rationale behind limiting some charged items (scrolls, potions, etc.) but not others (e.g., wands)? I have to admit that I thought it was a bit weird when I read through the rules for the first time. Don't get me wrong -- I think a limit on scrolls is a good idea (since in a one-off battle a 8,000 gp scroll will be much more powerful than a 8,000 gp magic sword). Hmmm...I've just had a brainstorm. My next idea for a character -- a sorceror who fills up the entire arena using wands of Mount!
Zevox 07-26-06, 02:49 PM	As a newcomer here, I'm just curious: what's the rationale behind limiting some charged items (scrolls, potions, etc.) but not others (e.g., wands)? Because of how cheap the other expendables are in comparison to wands. Sure, the net value of the per casting of the spell is greater, but with the wand you're spending a lot of money to get 50 castings of a single spell. With scrolls, potions, etc you spend much less individually and can customize which abilities you want how many of far more. Thats why it was decided not to limit wands - for those reasons, they've never been a cause of problems around here, whereas the others have. Heck, if you'll notice, as someone else pointed out, even now the only wands anyone's complaining about are healing ones, and only because they can drag out a battle, not because they're somehow overpowering (which is why other expendables were limited - full access to a huge array of them was overpowering). Hmmm...I've just had a brainstorm. My next idea for a character -- a sorceror who fills up the entire arena using wands of Mount! Problem: those would cost credits, since any wand not listed in the DMG/SRD isn't legal without them. Zevox
Traevanon 07-26-06, 10:57 PM	What you are detailing is a "perfect world" where gladiators are pit against each other in a relatively close quarters with a limited time frame. This scenario favors extreme heavy hitters with lightning quick reflexes. The people with the highest initiative able to kill in a single hit will succeed here - while the "whittlers" - the rogues and bards and other light damage characters - will certainly fall far behind. I would like to quote that because the reason behind it is crucial to why we have long fights. The one-hit-kill is the anathema here. Nobody wants a majority of matches decided before their gladiator even gets a turn. There is a middle ground though somewhere between the one-hit-kill and "I pack a lunch and wait for my opponent to starve to death". We just have to find it. I'm as guilty as anyone else by the way. Once Khabil reaches 6th level he'll likely be Flying, using a Teleporting +1 Hammer and a Tower Shield that will probably only hit high AC characters on 20s. Can you imagine how many rounds that would take against someone with a CLW wand who couldnt reach him? Who could blame a pitlord for smiting Khabil with a 30d6 lightning bolt from heaven? I'll let it rest for now though. I've stirred up the pot plenty enough for my liking.
King Uther 07-27-06, 01:30 AM	@bluemage Technically, Bilk could've enlarged the following turn, as the powerstone doesn't disappear. Also, I think Dracazar will choose not to forfeit, even with a low chance of success. @Dracazar I would prefer this fight to be rerun, as Quesis is undefeated and I refuse to strip her of that title unless Bilk strangles the life from her. Especially considering the tactics employed. I applaud you for that. It truly was the only way you could win, as expansioned with buffs you cannot compete with Bilk on your third fight as is. I only glanced at your tactics for the jist of it, but I think it could've been done if your move was angled to allow Bilk to move at a bull rush location. Tell me what you think. And perhaps later we can make a go at it when we're both on the first fight? I'll pay credits for the duel.
Dracazar 07-27-06, 10:46 AM	@Bluemage55 I noticed some probs with the run: I asked to use to use the corner opposite to bilk so this should have been the move: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=temple;a=Ques,M,23,23,2 3,8;b=Bilk,M,4,27;los=23,8,4,27,4 Then next rounds: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=temple;a=Ques,M,23,8,8, 8;b=Bilk,M,17,21,19,16,16,12 And the final move: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=temple;a=Ques,M,8,8,12, 8,15,11;b=Bilk,M,16,12 It is simple. @King Uther Quesis is impressed in front of so much honor, I'll pay the credits too. I'll accept another run but how to handle the fight record of week 19 july ? Thank you for the compliments about the tactics, I thought for 2 hours all possible tactics and that was the only with some chances. However as described above the manouvre could be done.
bluemage55 07-27-06, 04:36 PM	@Dracazar Thank you for drawing that out, I misinterpreted your tactics. I will rerun the fight tonight.
bluemage55 07-30-06, 07:13 PM	The fight was rerun with new results. Quesis is now the winner after Bilk was shoved into lava. I'm not sure how that works from a rules standpoint since it happened after the next week began.