Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 07-26-06, 01:25 PM	Fights of the Week: July 26th Sheets Deadline for editing characters sheets is 21:00 CET. By my estimate - that leaves you with about 1.5 hours by my clock - so finish up your editing. Central European Time (http://wwp.centraleuropeantime.eu/) shows the time. Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions. Please do not make fake accounts. If you do, there will be pain for all of your multiple personalities, plus bannings and feeding to dragons. Oh and curses - lots and lots of curses. Pairings GM Caterane will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Make sure that your character is not in Prison (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571107&goto=lastpost). Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need, there is a nice Template ready to use that will help. You could find very useful the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps, You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. Other useful links are Skills and Feats, Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't attack pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play and above all, have FUN! Latest News Planar Allies: If you pass the 'helpful' diplomacy Dc by X or more, the planar ally fights for free. X is the number of HD of the called ally. (Rules: Allies I). Planar Allies with an 'Always' alignment listed always have that alignment. If only one part is listed as 'Always' (eg. always good) then the other component is free to pick by the player. If the planar ally has a 'Usually' alignment listed, it can be anything within one step (eg. usually CE can also be NE or CN). Questlords: When a quest or miniquest is finished please post it to the Questlog of Gladius thread so that your players can link it properly. Failure to do so will result in loss of credit for running the quest or miniquest. If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
TelinArtho 07-26-06, 03:20 PM	Well, the deadline has come and passed. Please do not edit your character sheets on pain of forfeiture.
SauroGrenom 07-26-06, 05:01 PM	Pitlords, I noticed that Kracknol is listed on the roster with an [A]. This typicially means that he is going to be paired. I had intended for him to be using a full activity to train his recently acquired mount in combat riding. I set the title line to read, "Ready for Training July26th: Week 1/3". I can see why you may think that I'm indicating that I'd like to start a 3FC. I'm sorry if that is confusing, but I'm just beginning the 3 week long process of training an animal companion in combat riding.
Pitlords 07-26-06, 05:52 PM	Pairings done I'll write more when I can type properly.
TelinArtho 07-26-06, 05:54 PM	Looks like it is going to be a fun week. Iced - I'll work up some preliminary team tactics and send them tonight. Also - for Osiris vs Ilendil - note the violation. I will await Huan's response before sending Ilendil's thievery... I also find it kind of funny that my Druid 3/Wizard 2 is in an interleague fight against a Druid 3 and a Wizard 3... should be fun. As always - please send tactics early. I've got two fights already on my plate - and one of them is likely to be tough (ECL 9 team fight... this is going to be great!). I'll be sending all of the tactics that I can sometime tonight most likely.
Pittbull 07-26-06, 05:57 PM	@Erithmu: I see you listed as my questlord, but you aren't active as a pitlord. Are you back from vacancy? I'd like to run this MQ very fast, since I do not know, if I'll be available from Monday on.
Iced 07-26-06, 06:00 PM	Yup, looking forward to smashing a few heads with Farig this week. We've got two solid warriors vs a speedy offense-heavy defense-negligable psion and a ranger with excellent attack bonuses. And Osiris vs your rogue should prove... interesting. We'll see how your stealth pays off. No hints here ;) .
Erithmu 07-26-06, 06:06 PM	@Erithmu: I see you listed as my questlord, but you aren't active as a pitlord. Are you back from vacancy? I'd like to run this MQ very fast, since I do not know, if I'll be available from Monday on. I have Inet on vaca, expect the 'long' storyline up here in a bit. The first post you make will be your inital combat actions ... going to pull from the other quest from memory ... I think I remember it.
Caterane 07-26-06, 06:09 PM	@Erithmu: I see you listed as my questlord, but you aren't active as a pitlord. Are you back from vacancy? I'd like to run this MQ very fast, since I do not know, if I'll be available from Monday on. I'm sorry that I can't run your quest but with an injured hand I couldn't run a quest worthy of Morathor's entry. I also have to postpone our campaign to next wednesday but this is going to be our start date (unless there's another accident).
Pittbull 07-26-06, 06:13 PM	Next wednesday I'll be on vacancy, but I'll try to post as often as possible. Even if I won't be at home, there will be a computer anywhere. PS: Gute Genesung, hoffentlich gab's keine Blasen!
Caterane 07-26-06, 06:21 PM	Leider schon passiert :( Trotzdem danke!
SauroGrenom 07-26-06, 06:24 PM	Cat, Please List Kracknol's Full Activity. He's starting the process of training his animal companion in the combat riding package. This is week 1 of 3.
Pittbull 07-26-06, 06:28 PM	@Cat: Just give me your home adress and I'll send you one of my assistances. They are good in treating wounds and typing. ;)
Caterane 07-26-06, 06:39 PM	Hey thanks! That's a nice offer but I can just force-recruit some pupils next week lol
Pittbull 07-26-06, 06:46 PM	Please be careful. You know what Pink Floyd said: We don't need no education We dont need no thought control Pink No dark sarcasm in the classroom Teachers leave them kids alone Floyd Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone! All in all it's just another brick in the wall. Another All in all you're just another brick in the wall. Brick We don't need no education We dont need no thought control In No dark sarcasm in the classroom Teachers leave them kids alone The Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone! All in all it's just another brick in the wall. Wall All in all you're just another brick in the wall. BTW, don't you have school-holidays at the moment?
Caterane 07-26-06, 07:14 PM	Actually, I'm not teaching anymore that's why I have so much time atm. I'm going back to university (start this autumn) and make an upgrade to Gymnasium. They put me right into the 7th semester so I have to do two more or so. That's an offer I can't reject.
Zevox 07-26-06, 07:16 PM	Bah, another match with a blindness-casting wizard for one of my assassin girls. They seem to be a magnet for those types. @ My players - As luck would have it, I'm pretty well wide open for running fights all weekend. I have work tomorrow afternoon, but after that I'm free until next wednesday. So anytime you get me tactics I can run the fights, and the sooner the tactics are in the sooner they get run. Zevox
Vathelokai 07-26-06, 07:23 PM	Pairings problems. Zodiac [ECL3] was supposed to do a guild intro quest this week. I can wait until next week if it would be too difficult to change the pairings. I see no one doing full activities. I know Auburn is doing week 2 of crafting..
Caterane 07-26-06, 07:23 PM	@Pittbull: How long will you be on vacation? Will you have internet access?
Pittbull 07-26-06, 07:25 PM	Actually, I'm not teaching anymore that's why I have so much time atm. I'm going back to university (start this autumn) and make an upgrade to Gymnasium. They put me right into the 7th semester so I have to do two more or so. That's an offer I can't reject. A friend of mine did the same in music from Realschule to Gymnasium and he is very happy about this oportunity. Good decision, studying is the best time!
Pittbull 07-26-06, 07:29 PM	@Pittbull: How long will you be on vacation? Will you have internet access? The next two weeks, beginning at monday, but I think I'll have steady internent access, assuming the computer of my girl-friends parents works (crossing fingers!). We will stay one week at Lake Constance and then one week at my home.
Pitlords 07-26-06, 07:33 PM	@Sauro & Vath: fixed
Caterane 07-26-06, 07:41 PM	The next two weeks, beginning at monday, but I think I'll have steady internent access, assuming the computer of my girl-friends parents works (crossing fingers!). We will stay one week at Lake Constance and then one week at my home. I suppose you can't do any posts during the week at Lake Constance. I'll definately start the campaign next wednesday; the guild system is done...there's nothing in the way now. It'd be sad if you miss the beginning. PS: Erithmu is right about the rewards. You can abort and keep anything you earned so far. Unfortunately, there's no previous fight in a miniquest for which you could take home rewards on an aborted quest. Were it a full quest and you had defeated some pixies in week one, aborting it during the barghest encounter let's you keep the rewards for the pixies. If you die, all is gone.
Sindorin 07-26-06, 08:41 PM	you may have noticed i didnt activate anything this week. I'm pretty busy. But I will still watch the fun. Everyone take care this week.
TheMagister 07-26-06, 08:55 PM	@ DSugui - tactics for Mssr. Hood vs. Khabil sent via PM. TM
Erithmu 07-26-06, 09:08 PM	@MWB: Zevox and I are finalizing our team plans for the inter league. @Zevox: rough draft sent.
Erithmu 07-26-06, 09:41 PM	A note to support a good member of our community: Our Dear MWB has a dragon in the current Creature Competition. This would be the week that the dragon is in the fight. So click here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060221x) and vote for Arilasadetonima. I think that the voting goes till Saturday or something, so get out there and lets see if we can't support our own.
Zevox 07-26-06, 10:12 PM	@ MindWandererB - Team tactics for Eraca & Loddick vs Perius sent via PM. @ DSugui & Zelck - I'll send tactics for Annalina and Indrithia tonight. Zevox
Ravashack 07-26-06, 11:12 PM	Tactics for Perius sent in to MindWandererB via PM.
Zevox 07-26-06, 11:29 PM	@ DSugui - Tactics for the battle of the Anas (Annalina vs Anakala, heh) have been PMed. That one will basically be decided by one dice roll. @ Zelck - Tactics for Indrithia Celeth vs The Undertaker have been PMed. Good luck with your first fight - this one should be pretty painless to run. @ Milov - Tactics for Idhald recieved, if I forgot to tell you earlier. Zevox
NiQil 07-26-06, 11:49 PM	@ Traevanon: Tactics for Death sent via PM. @ Zevox: Tactics for War in team fight forthcoming pending conference with my partner.
TelinArtho 07-27-06, 12:18 AM	Tactics for Darrgon, Anakala, Faelto and Kraegin have all been sent. Prelim tactics for the team fight sent to my partner for review. Still awaiting resolution of violation for Osiris before sending Burglary results and tactics for Ilendil.
TelinArtho 07-27-06, 01:07 AM	Quick discussion between Huan, Iced and myself: Hey there- Before this becomes a big issue, I find I must send a little notice that Osiris is in vioaltion of the expendable caps. It seems she is holding more than 450 gp worth of scrolls, and must cut this down. Please send me and your opponent a list of the scrolls you WILL be bringing in (consider everythign else 'at home' and unusable). Thanks and please reply soon. -Huan I'm keeping the obscuring mists, the rays of enfeeblement, and the first multi-spell mostly defenive based scroll. please forward to Huan when possible his pm box if full. Ilendil will make the scroll with 6 obscuring mists unavailable. Also - I want to make it clear that Osiris's surplus scrolls should be treated as "at home" for the rest of the 3FC - not just this fight. Otherwise - what's preventing a player from deliberately breaking the rules and just switching it up each week when they are called on the violation?
MindWandererB 07-27-06, 01:22 AM	@Perius, Zevox, & Erithmu: Tactics received. I will start on the fight as soon as my own tactics are done. @Telin, Iced, Huan, & DSugui: I should send out tactics tomorrow. For the inter-league battle, that means a draft to DSugui first, of course.
King Uther 07-27-06, 01:34 AM	@Gladiators Tactics due Friday night. Please do not delay.
Pittbull 07-27-06, 02:43 AM	I suppose you can't do any posts during the week at Lake Constance. I'll definately start the campaign next wednesday; the guild system is done...there's nothing in the way now. It'd be sad if you miss the beginning. No, I'll be able to post pretty sure, but maybe only once per day.
Ravashack 07-27-06, 03:06 AM	@Perius, Zevox, & Erithmu: Tactics received. I will start on the fight as soon as my own tactics are done. @Telin, Iced, Huan, & DSugui: I should send out tactics tomorrow. For the inter-league battle, that means a draft to DSugui first, of course. BTW, if you notice anything contradictory in my tactics, please tell me. I redid it from scratch twice, and I'm pretty dead tired to boot, so I'm pretty sure I missed something I'm not noticing right now, LOL.
Caterane 07-27-06, 05:13 AM	@TelinArtho: Can you please put your fights into sblocks? That helps me a lot. If everyone would do this I'd need a new mousewheel. Thanks. @Huan: Can you please put the results into sblocks? You put everything into blocks except for the result which pops right in the eye to spoil the outcome before you have a chance to react. Thanks.
Traevanon 07-27-06, 08:22 AM	@ DSugui - tactics for Khabil vs Mssr. Hood sent via PM.
waywreth 07-27-06, 08:46 AM	@TelinArtho - Tactics for Gaston in Gaston (waywreth) vs. Aerryl (MindWandererB) : TelinArtho [City] sent via PM.
TelinArtho 07-27-06, 09:57 AM	@TelinArtho: Can you please put your fights into sblocks? That helps me a lot. If everyone would do this I'd need a new mousewheel. Thanks. Sure - I wasn't very consistent about it - and I only started not doing it because a fight couldn't be posted with them a few weeks back (I was over the character limit by ~10 characters...). In any case - no problem. @Waywreth - tactics received. I have also received tactics for Genia for the monster fight - so when I am done writing up the last of my tactics - I'll get that one done straight away. /d
Myrridin 07-27-06, 10:04 AM	@bgt: I'd prefer to receive tactics via PM. Also the information for your monster fight...given that you have no knowledge skills with Neidr. Monster: A medium, two legged monster, non-humanoid.
lonewolf 07-27-06, 11:04 AM	Kitty´s part of the team tactics sent to Salrantol for confirmation. Im starting to work on Karens tactics now.
TelinArtho 07-27-06, 11:05 AM	Genia vs Sparky the Hell Hound is up. Very close match.
TelinArtho 07-27-06, 11:25 AM	Tactics for Farig's portion of the team tactics were sent earlier this morning to Zevox via PM.
Zevox 07-27-06, 11:31 AM	Tactics for Farig's portion of the team tactics were sent earlier this morning to Zevox via PM. And they were recieved, thank you. I'm still waiting on Iced and your foes for that one. Zevox
Salrantol 07-27-06, 12:33 PM	@Zevox: Tactics for Enoch and Kitty in team fight sent via PM.
MindWandererB 07-27-06, 12:42 PM	@Ravashack: I can't see anything overtly problematic. If anything comes up during the fight that would merit a clarification, I'll let you know. @Milov - make sure you put the 3FC summary at the top of your sheet rather than the bottom. Also, mark up your used spells and pp on the sheet with strikethroughs or grayed/silvered text.Eh? The current default character sheet has this information at the bottom, not the top. I started putting it on the top myself, then realized that wasn't where it was supposed to go and moved it. We're getting mixed messages here; either Telin or NiQil needs to change their mind on this one.
TelinArtho 07-27-06, 01:40 PM	I've added a short narrative to the monster fight with Genia. @MWB - eh - I was just going by what Cat said a few times in the last few weeks. I actually don't think I care either way as long as it is clearly marked...
hogarth 07-27-06, 02:15 PM	@DSugui: Tactics sent for Kilpquabjeg. @King Uther: I'll give my inter-league partner (DirewolfX/Reinard) until Friday morning before sending you my (our) tactics. He hasn't logged on since last week, but he may yet show up.
TelinArtho 07-27-06, 04:23 PM	I've received Aerryl's tactics - so I now have the tactics for both opponents. Good luck to both of you - looks like it will be interesting. If you care to observe quietly - feel free to watch the rolls as they come up on the CoCo dice roller...
MindWandererB 07-27-06, 04:40 PM	Well, I was going to tell Telin that I sent 'em, but I guess that's moot now. Iced, you should have Sunstroke's, too. Huan, DSugui's going to look over our plan one last time and then send it on tomorrow.
Book5 07-27-06, 06:29 PM	@ Treavanon and Bluemage55 : Tactics Sent @ Telin - Taking your advice with Tan's tactics this time, seeing as these guys are so similar :rolleyes: @ Vath - Quest Thread started! :D My home internet is pending... and should be activated at anytime. I would like you to start things with an introductory post in the TAO.. ;)
Zelck 07-27-06, 07:09 PM	I have received the tactics, and will run the fight ASAP. Expect it sometime on Saturday EST.
NiQil 07-27-06, 09:33 PM	@Zevox: Tactics for War & Dameon Leonne sent via PM
DSugui 07-27-06, 10:23 PM	OK, here we come: @Iced: tactics for Daisy sent by PM. This fight will be interesting. @bluemage55: tactics for Krug sent by PM. I didn't receive tactics for Lantash so far. @TheMagister: Tactics for Mr. Hood and addendum received. @Zevox: Tactics for Annalina received @Telin: Tactics for Anakala received @hogarth: Tactics for Kil... whatever and addendum received. @Traevanon: Tactics for Khabil received
Traevanon 07-27-06, 11:05 PM	@Book5: Regarding Tan's dogs. The quadruped bonus applies only to defending against a trip, it probably should be noted as such rather than as part of the dog's usual Trip modifier. It seems like you want to apply it to attacks. In their more detailed entry you have Trip listed as a Feat rather than a Special Attack. This could be confused with Improved Trip, further confusing the whole trip situation. I'd appreciate it if you'd clear up these minor issues after the fight. Oh and by the way, you have a spare /sblock tag right before your Feats Thanks - Trae
TelinArtho 07-27-06, 11:07 PM	Gaston vs Aerryl is up. A very interesting fight to pitlord. With more comprehensive tactics from either side it would have made it even more so. Nice ideas from the both of you.
TelinArtho 07-27-06, 11:09 PM	@Book5: Regarding Tan's dogs. The quadruped bonus applies only to defending against a trip, it probably should be noted as such rather than as part of the dog's usual Trip modifier. It seems like you want to apply it to attacks. In their more detailed entry you have Trip listed as a Feat rather than a Special Attack. This could be confused with Improved Trip, further confusing the whole trip situation. I'd appreciate it if you'd clear up these minor issues after the fight. Thanks - Trae I'll have to double check - but I believe all of this are still in the open sections of Tan's violation post in the prison. If he doesn't fix it - he'll soon end up in prison anyway.
MindWandererB 07-28-06, 02:18 AM	Two psionicists duke it out in Perius vs. Eraca and Loddick. Oh yeah, there's some elf chick in that one, too. :P @Telin: Yeah, I saw Dispel on his sheet, but couldn't figure out anything to do about it. Can't be countered, can't really be used up without using up all his PPs... and the sneaky thing didn't work for me so well, either. Well, live and learn.
Iced 07-28-06, 02:47 AM	@DSugai + MindwandererB - Tactics received.
Ravashack 07-28-06, 03:10 AM	Two psionicists duke it out in Perius vs. Eraca and Loddick. Oh yeah, there's some elf chick in that one, too. :P @Telin: Yeah, I saw Dispel on his sheet, but couldn't figure out anything to do about it. Can't be countered, can't really be used up without using up all his PPs... and the sneaky thing didn't work for me so well, either. Well, live and learn. Yep, I forgot I switched back to the crossbow when writing the Energy Burst section. Oops. Oh well, the only way he was going to reliably target Eraca is with Touchsight anyway, so at least he didn't use any expendables. And what do you mean by the "3FC section" MindWandererB? Aren't we only required to keep track of the week the character is on in the title line? I'm guessing I missed a memo somewhere.
MindWandererB 07-28-06, 03:17 AM	And what do you mean by the "3FC section" MindWandererB? Aren't we only required to keep track of the week the character is on in the title line? I'm guessing I missed a memo somewhere.From the Default Character Sheet: This section is mandatory. This will be used to record all of your summary information for each battle in which you participate in the current 3 Fight Cycle this character is involved in. Since this information should be listed in template format by your pitlord in each fight summary, you should be able to just copy and paste that information from the fight summary here. However, the template is also provided here, so that even though the pitlord may not use the template, you can still bring your character into compliance by using it. If one or more of the lines within each week is not applicable for your character (such as a barbarian not having any spells or power points to use), simply mark it N/A. If one of the lines does apply, but you do not have an entry in that section during a fight (such as in the case of not using any expendables one week), then mark that line as None.However, it appears I was wrong: although this section is required, lacking it does not mean an auto-loss--that's only for failing to update your cycle info properly. Which seems a bit harsh, come to think of it--I miss a detail or two every time, myself.
Ravashack 07-28-06, 03:25 AM	From the Default Character Sheet: However, it appears I was wrong: although this section is required, lacking it does not mean an auto-loss--that's only for failing to update your cycle info properly. Which seems a bit harsh, come to think of it--I miss a detail or two every time, myself. Oh I see. Not a big deal I guess. Two more levels until I no longer have to care about Energy attacks...at least, Energy attacks from items.
Erithmu 07-28-06, 09:43 AM	Two psionicists duke it out in Perius vs. Eraca and Loddick. Oh yeah, there's some elf chick in that one, too. :P Party .... I think if it was just 1v1 on that ... I would have different tactics vs ego whip. It might be time for me to buy a + save item though ... thanks for the run One Minor error: in the rewards section you have Eraca and Perius winning ... rather than Eraca and Loddick
hogarth 07-28-06, 09:46 AM	@King Uther: sent tactics for Treetall + Reinard vs. Faelto via e-mail
Traevanon 07-28-06, 09:47 AM	It takes a full round action (that provokes) to "prepare" an Acid Flask or Alchemist's Fire?
Sunwolf 07-28-06, 11:02 AM	@Huan Tactics for Leif vs Zero and Dronnar sent by PM
TelinArtho 07-28-06, 11:07 AM	It takes a full round action (that provokes) to "prepare" an Acid Flask or Alchemist's Fire? This has been discussed before. I think the decision came down that these two are "grenade-like" weapons that happen to splash on impact - same would go for holy water against physical foes. The difference is when you need to "splash" the item - most often with oil in a flask or holy water against an incorporeal foe. To be honest there are very few who use them with any regularity anyway - so its not that big of a deal to just let them be.
Traevanon 07-28-06, 11:19 AM	I plan to use them. Khabil is a thrower. A 1d6 touch attack for 1d6 follow-up damage the second round is nice. So as long as I know the general policy is to allow them to just be pulled out and thrown in the same round (and quickdrawn) I'll plan on that. I just happened to bump into that rule as I was checking out the SRD's online DM screen.
lonewolf 07-28-06, 11:19 AM	@Sauro: Tactics for Karen vs Kreagin sent.
TelinArtho 07-28-06, 11:21 AM	@Traevanon - I'll see if I can find the relevant conversation. I just checked the court decisions and clarifications in the prison and it isn't listed there. If I find it - I'll let you know.
TelinArtho 07-28-06, 11:37 AM	This is the information I've found from a "recent" discussion about it. Sauro's post is the last one relating to the issue that I could find in this series. [Post 4264] Author : NiQil Date : 10-19-05 12:55 PM Normally, when throwing a weapon, you apply your strength bonus to damage. Does this apply for splash weapons as well, such as alchemist's fire or holy water (to undead) or acid? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4265] Author : TelinArtho Date : 10-19-05 12:57 PM I'd say probably not - because they are not "thrown" attacks - they are ranged touch attacks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4266] Author : NiQil Date : 10-19-05 01:09 PM I'd say probably not - because they are not "thrown" attacks - they are ranged touch attacks. Ahhh good point....I'd forgotten about that...glad I asked before I made a jackass of myself LOL. I'm tinkering with a halfling or gnome fighter who uses TWF with splash weapons like acid and and some poisons as his primary attacks for my IRL game. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4268] Author : Tellish_of_Ket Date : 10-19-05 01:27 PM Ahhh good point....I'd forgotten about that...glad I asked before I made a jackass of myself LOL. I'm tinkering with a halfling or gnome fighter who uses TWF with splash weapons like acid and alchemist's fire and some poisons as his primary attacks for my IRL game. You'll have a problem with this type of build. It's a standard action to prime an alchemist fire/acid flask for throwing. And it can't be pre-buffed. This was a huge debate about whether it can or can't. It was the driving force that prevented Anna from using all her alchy-fires at once. There were many arguments that revolved around it. Obviously Cat being the biggest proponent against pre-buffing the alchy-fires, as Anna directly threatens his characters. Now that she's gone, he might sing a different tune, but he wasn't the only one against pre-buffing the priming of alchy-fires. I'm undecided, but it's very subjective and part of me accepts the fact it can't be pre-buffed because of the volatility of the substance, but then again, nothing really prevents you either. Take your pick...just beware, your pitlord/opponent might not allow you to. -ToK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4272] Author : NiQil Date : 10-19-05 01:36 PM You'll have a problem with this type of build. It's a standard action to prime an alchemist fire/acid flask for throwing. And it can't be pre-buffed. This was a huge debate about whether it can or can't. It was the driving force that prevented Anna from using all her alchy-fires at once. There were many arguments that revolved around it. Obviously Cat being the biggest proponent against pre-buffing the alchy-fires, as Anna directly threatens his characters. Now that she's gone, he might sing a different tune, but he wasn't the only one against pre-buffing the priming of alchy-fires. I'm undecided, but it's very subjective and part of me accepts the fact it can't be pre-buffed because of the volatility of the substance, but then again, nothing really prevents you either. Take your pick...just beware, your pitlord/opponent might not allow you to. -ToK No worries...this isn't something that will be introduced here....this type of character would never survive an arena setting. Strictly for home game use. Besides...there, I have an in with the DM....being she's my wife and all LOL. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4273] Author : Mind Rogue Date : 10-19-05 01:39 PM You'll have a problem with this type of build. It's a standard action to prime an alchemist fire/acid flask for throwing. And it can't be pre-buffed. This was a huge debate about whether it can or can't. It was the driving force that prevented Anna from using all her alchy-fires at once. There were many arguments that revolved around it. Obviously Cat being the biggest proponent against pre-buffing the alchy-fires, as Anna directly threatens his characters. Now that she's gone, he might sing a different tune, but he wasn't the only one against pre-buffing the priming of alchy-fires. I'm undecided, but it's very subjective and part of me accepts the fact it can't be pre-buffed because of the volatility of the substance, but then again, nothing really prevents you either. Take your pick...just beware, your pitlord/opponent might not allow you to. -ToK Would you care to point out where it takes a standard action to prime a flask of acid or alchemist fire? I'm looking at page 128 of the PHB right now and the only thing I don't see it, so as far as I can tell, all it takes to prime it is to draw it, then it breaks open when you throw it. Oil needs to be primed in order to use it as a weapon, and that takes a full-round action. Also, as splash weapons, you could quick draw them or draw them as part of movement. Thus, that halfling firethower could be very interesting, particularly if she has two-weapon fighting and far shot. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4274] Author : NiQil Date : 10-19-05 01:48 PM Would you care to point out where it takes a standard action to prime a flask of acid or alchemist fire? I'm looking at page 128 of the PHB right now and the only thing I don't see it, so as far as I can tell, all it takes to prime it is to draw it, then it breaks open when you throw it. Oil needs to be primed in order to use it as a weapon, and that takes a full-round action. Also, as splash weapons, you could quick draw them or draw them as part of movement. Thus, that halfling firethower could be very interesting, particularly if she has two-weapon fighting and far shot. I was about to ask the same thing. Never seen anywhere that you have to prime alchemist's fire or acid or any other item that is designed to be used as a splash weapon. I say designed because oil wasn't *designed for that purpose...it just can be. And yeah....the idea was to make a halfling fighter with the TWF feat tree along with PBS, Far Shot, Precise Shot and Rapid Shot.....and then maybe also add in the Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack and Shot on the Run....get him a mount and I can throw in Mounted Combat and Ride By Attack...turn him into a splash weapon wielder that can do strafing runs with alchemist's fire, acid, contact poisons, holy water for undead, tanglefoot bags, thunderstones, etc. Would never be a significant damage dealer, but would be a great tactical fighter....would work well in a party setting with say a rogue, a tank fighter type and a caster... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4277] Author : Tellish_of_Ket Date : 10-19-05 01:54 PM I was about to ask the same thing. Never seen anywhere that you have to prime alchemist's fire or acid or any other item that is designed to be used as a splash weapon. I say designed because oil wasn't *designed for that purpose...it just can be. Actually, i was wrong. It's not a standard action to prime...it's a FULL ROUND ACTION, that provokes an attack of opportunity. Hence why it was never allowed to pre-buff. PHB 141: Full Round Actions -ToK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4278] Author : NiQil Date : 10-19-05 02:07 PM Actually, i was wrong. It's not a standard action to prime...it's a FULL ROUND ACTION, that provokes an attack of opportunity. Hence why it was never allowed to pre-buff. PHB 141: Full Round Actions -ToK I went and looked in the SRD and, sure enough, there it is...that single entry on the table. I'll be damned. Learn something new every day. Does the PHB give any explanation for the table entry? I don't have access to my PHB at the moment and the SRD doesn't mention it other than that one line on the table. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4279] Author : TelinArtho Date : 10-19-05 02:10 PM To get back to the original question, I've found the specific text that says you don't apply strength modifiers to splash weapons. Check under Equipment: Thrown Weapons: The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4280] Author : SoulLord Date : 10-19-05 02:12 PM Actually, i was wrong. It's not a standard action to prime...it's a FULL ROUND ACTION, that provokes an attack of opportunity. Hence why it was never allowed to pre-buff. PHB 141: Full Round Actions -ToK Interesting. I didn't notice that before even searched in the faq for errata for it but theres none. so a full round action it is. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4281] Author : NiQil Date : 10-19-05 02:14 PM To get back to the original question, I've found the specific text that says you don't apply strength modifiers to splash weapons. Check under Equipment: Thrown Weapons: Ahhh...no wonder I couldn't find it...I was looking in the wrong place. Danke -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4282] Author : TelinArtho Date : 10-19-05 02:16 PM I've found this text under special actions in the Combat section of the SRD. It doesn't resolve the whole "Prepare to throw" full round action - it makes no mention of it: THROW SPLASH WEAPON A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Thrown weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don’t take the –4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target. You can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5. However, if you target a grid intersection, creatures in all adjacent squares are dealt the splash damage, and the direct hit damage is not dealt to any creature. (You can’t target a grid intersection occupied by a creature, such as a Large or larger creature; in this case, you’re aiming at the creature.) If you miss the target (whether aiming at a creature or a grid intersection), roll 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the throw, with 1 being straight back at you and 2 through 8 counting clockwise around the grid intersection or target creature. Then, count a number of squares in the indicated direction equal to the range increment of the throw. After you determine where the weapon landed, it deals splash damage to all creatures in adjacent squares. However, since according to this text you can just throw and the item breaks, I don't see what kind of preparation is needed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4283] Author : NiQil Date : 10-19-05 02:16 PM Interesting. I didn't notice that before even searched in the faq for errata for it but theres none. so a full round action it is. Yeah....and that is going to change things for a few characters that I can think of that rely on splash weapons. Especially since I have yet to see a battle where splash weapons were used that this rule was actually applied. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4284] Author : NiQil Date : 10-19-05 02:18 PM I've found this text under special actions in the Combat section of the SRD. It doesn't resolve the whole "Prepare to throw" full round action - it makes no mention of it: However, since according to this text you can just throw and the item breaks, I don't see what kind of preparation is needed. I would agree with you in that I don't know what type of preparation would be needed....but there is no disputing the entry on the table indicating that it is a full round action to prepare to throw a splash weapon.....in the absence of any other entry contradicting it, it is valid. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4286] Author : SauroGrenom Date : 10-19-05 02:44 PM The only splash weapons I know of are acid flask, alchemists fire and oil. I haven't seen those used very often in the arena, but I haven't been around to long. Besides, the SRD states that it takes a full round action to "Prepare to throw splash weapon". The only one of the above splash weapons that is stated to require that it be prepaired is the oil flask. Oil is specifically said to be different from alchemists fire in this way. That is a nearly direct statement that there is no need to "Prepare to throw" an alchemists fire. I would like to point out the use of the word "Prepare" as opposed to "Draw" draw is used to refer to most weapons that can be put into yur hand(or whatever passes for a hand) and used. Prepare is used in this specific context to transform an oil flask into a splash weapon. It takes a full round action to make a splash weapon out of a oil flask, not to get an acid flask out of your belt pouch. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- And in case you were wondering - it was never brought up in the Ask an Elder thread either. Since I don't think you know who Tellish is - he was one of the Elders at the time the conversation took place.
Traevanon 07-28-06, 12:00 PM	Thanks. I can see how Sauro could read the way he did, but its still a bit ambiguous. I wonder what Customer Service would say about it if I called 3 different times. ;)
Zevox 07-28-06, 01:23 PM	@ MWB - Looks good to me. Went pretty much how I expected - I figured Perius didn't have much of a chance between Loddick's energy missiles dealing huge damage and all the counters Eraca had to his methods of dealing damage. I didn't expect he'd take enough damage before the arrow to go down from its damage alone, but why complain about that? @Zevox: For the record, it just occurred to me that guarding might be a productive activity even when there's no burglar in your ECL, due to inter-league fights. Of course, an ECL 8 guarding against an ECL 4 burglar isn't helpful. Strategy-wise, I really have no comment--your tactics turned out to be overkill. Not unless you know theres a burglar 2 ECLs below you. Considering our only burglars are Featylec (whos away campaigning) and Ilendil (ECL 3), that means only ECL 3 or 5 characters could possible get any use out of it. And a burglar 2 levels below you generally won't be able to steal much of use since how much they can take is based on thier level. As for the tactics, just being thorough. Perius only has a few methods of attack, it seemed best to have a counter to each - Mirror Images vs Ego Whip, huge speed vs Energy Burst, huge AC & Mirror Images vs crossbow. @ Zelck - Tactics (both the old 2 messages and the new revised ones) recieved. Zevox
MindWandererB 07-28-06, 01:47 PM	Well, Cat hasn't promised not to do ECL+ECL+ECL=ECL+3 fights (although I, for one, would be against them), so that would add another ECL to the list. But the main reason folks guard is just that there's no reason not to--it's a "free" free activity. @'Rith: Fixed.
Zevox 07-28-06, 02:05 PM	*shrugs* I'd be against ECL+ECL+ECL vs ECL+3 matches as well (I had to run one and participate in one in the practices, and both seemed very unfair to me), but since we haven't seen any yet I wouldn't be sure Cat plans on using them. In any event, there is a reason not to guard if you're not in a position to get matched with a burglar - with 1 rank in a profession or craft skill you can put that free activity to better use making money. Zevox
TelinArtho 07-28-06, 02:34 PM	In any event, there is a reason not to guard if you're not in a position to get matched with a burglar - with 1 rank in a profession or craft skill you can put that free activity to better use making money. Zevox Actually, to use profession or craft to generate money, you need at least 5 ranks in it - which is sometimes more than a character can spare.
MindWandererB 07-28-06, 02:37 PM	In any event, there is a reason not to guard if you're not in a position to get matched with a burglar - with 1 rank in a profession or craft skill you can put that free activity to better use making money.You need 5 ranks to do that by CoCo rules. Edit: Lost that race by a landslide.
MindWandererB 07-28-06, 03:23 PM	@Telin: You missed the Potion of Invisibility Aerryl drank in the fight summary. Can you add that, please?
Zevox 07-28-06, 05:11 PM	You need 5 ranks to do that by CoCo rules. Right, sorry, momentary lapse of memory. @ Milov - Ihdhald's revised tactics recieved. I'm still waiting on Iced's tactics for that one. @ Salrantol/lonewolf - Team tactics & revision recieved. @ NiQil/Huan - Team tactics recieved. I'll run that fight tomorrow. Zevox
Caterane 07-28-06, 06:44 PM	@Telin & Rith: Just wanted to say that I gave you a thumbs-up when I saw that you posted in the Questlog of Gladius. Re: 3xECLvsECL+3 The guild system needs this setup to broaden the range of possible interceptions. Without it, a guild could send an operator depending on the available interceptors in the other guilds and make itself immune to counters. We need to make it +4 from high level on because ECL 20 vs 3xECL17 is not balanced.
TelinArtho 07-28-06, 10:30 PM	@Telin: You missed the Potion of Invisibility Aerryl drank in the fight summary. Can you add that, please? Fixed.
Traevanon 07-28-06, 10:49 PM	@Telin & Rith: Just wanted to say that I gave you a thumbs-up when I saw that you posted in the Questlog of Gladius. Re: 3xECLvsECL+3 The guild system needs this setup to broaden the range of possible interceptions. Without it, a guild could send an operator depending on the available interceptors in the other guilds and make itself immune to counters. We need to make it +4 from high level on because ECL 20 vs 3xECL17 is not balanced. I think ECL+ECL=ECL+2 (and the rest) really only begins to fail after 17th level because there are no more levels of spells and powers to get. An ECL17 against 3 ECL14s should be pretty balanced.
King Uther 07-29-06, 12:39 AM	@Telin; BlazingHand: Fight will be up tonight. @Inter-League I believe I can get that up tonight as well, but I may feel too tired as I just worked my 5th 10+ hour day. If not then Sunday night will be the likely time.
King Uther 07-29-06, 02:40 AM	Darggon the Summoner vs Nathas Barriret is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9708661&postcount=780) One person was very unlucky. @Telin Tell me if you feel there is an issue about the weasel moving out.
TelinArtho 07-29-06, 03:00 AM	Well, I don't have an issue with Shakti attacking - since that is what I wanted if Darrgon got put to sleep or stunned or what-have-you. The thing I do note is that after Shakti's bite hits - he is attached - which means he deals bite damage each round until successfully pinned and removed. The scorpion does not suffer the miss chance because of tremorsense. This means that the initial attack when it is summoned hits. (actually - looking at the roll, I think it might still be a miss - just your wording confused me...) In the round following the bite, the scorpion hits for 2 damage and then Shakti should deal 1 damage from the attach - leaving Nathas at 0hp. Also - I think in the second round of the scorpion's existence it gets a full attack - although I suppose Nathas might have moved away - not sure about that. I do think that once the scorpion bases Nathas - his tactics wanted to move away in order to outlast it - which would mean his bolt wouldn't get fired at that moment - but I think that's a fine line and I'll leave it to my opponent to argue. To cast a spell while Shakti is attached - he'd have to make a concentration check versus DC10+half damage = DC10.
King Uther 07-29-06, 03:20 AM	As far as those points go, the scorpion only ever deals 1 damage, and Nathas pinned Shakti, thus freeing him from attachment. However, one thing you did point out is that Full attack action the scorpion deserves for the second round of its existence. The claw hits, putting Nathas at 0 at a certain point. (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=536865) Two scenarios occur here: 1) Nathas retreats earlier and the fight continues with more summons etc...but in this case Darrgon is conscious and could kill Nathas. This, however, is a likely course of action as Nathas' tactics do say to avoid summons at all possible. I think I justified ignoring this with the successful attack. But that's not really fair, as it is the prime point ofthe tactics(although do anything to win is as well). 2) Nathas withdraws from combat in the best way he can(something else I missed) in round 12, which allows him to pin the weasel, then knock it unconscious with Color Spray after releasing the weasel. What I'm going to do is tomorrow after I get off work( a very short day), I will come back and rerun the fight from where you first spot one another. Nathas will run away to dodge summons, and we'll see what happens. Nathas does knock out Darrgon if he ever gets a chance to fire, but with the readied action Melf's, perhaps that will never happen. Unless it is argued otherwise, that is the plan.
Blazinghand 07-29-06, 03:26 AM	This sounds like a good plan to me. At first, I was surprised; it would have been cool to defeat Telinartho with a single hit point. :cool: In any case, I agree with this plan, and if it's okay with Telinartho, will log in tommorrow to see the result.
TheMagister 07-29-06, 03:48 AM	The scorpion does not suffer the miss chance because of tremorsense. This means that the initial attack when it is summoned hits. (actually - looking at the roll, I think it might still be a miss - just your wording confused me...) Tremorsense (Ex): A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically pinpoint the location of anything that is in contact with the ground. Aquatic creatures with tremorsense can also sense the location of creatures moving through water. The ability’s range is specified in the creature’s descriptive text. Blindsight (Ex): This ability is similar to blindsense, but is far more discerning. Using nonvisual senses, such as sensitivity to vibrations, keen smell, acute hearing, or echolocation, a creature with blindsight maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature. Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creature must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object. The ability’s range is specified in the creature’s descriptive text. The creature usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures within range of its blindsight ability. Unless noted otherwise, blindsight is continuous, and the creature need do nothing to use it. Some forms of blindsight, however, must be triggered as a free action. If so, this is noted in the creature’s description. If a creature must trigger its blindsight ability, the creature gains the benefits of blindsight only during its turn. Tremorsense allows pinpointing, but doesn't allow a monster (or whoever) to totally ignore concealment. AFAIK, only blindsight does that (and touchsight). TM
TelinArtho 07-29-06, 11:09 AM	Tremorsense (Ex): A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically pinpoint the location of anything that is in contact with the ground. Aquatic creatures with tremorsense can also sense the location of creatures moving through water. The ability’s range is specified in the creature’s descriptive text. Blindsight (Ex): This ability is similar to blindsense, but is far more discerning. Using nonvisual senses, such as sensitivity to vibrations, keen smell, acute hearing, or echolocation, a creature with blindsight maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature. Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creature must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object. The ability’s range is specified in the creature’s descriptive text. The creature usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures within range of its blindsight ability. Unless noted otherwise, blindsight is continuous, and the creature need do nothing to use it. Some forms of blindsight, however, must be triggered as a free action. If so, this is noted in the creature’s description. If a creature must trigger its blindsight ability, the creature gains the benefits of blindsight only during its turn. Tremorsense allows pinpointing, but doesn't allow a monster (or whoever) to totally ignore concealment. AFAIK, only blindsight does that (and touchsight). TM Hmmm - didn't realize that. Thanks for the correction.
TelinArtho 07-29-06, 11:11 AM	As far as those points go, the scorpion only ever deals 1 damage, and Nathas pinned Shakti, thus freeing him from attachment. However, one thing you did point out is that Full attack action the scorpion deserves for the second round of its existence. The claw hits, putting Nathas at 0 at a certain point. (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=536865) Two scenarios occur here: 1) Nathas retreats earlier and the fight continues with more summons etc...but in this case Darrgon is conscious and could kill Nathas. This, however, is a likely course of action as Nathas' tactics do say to avoid summons at all possible. I think I justified ignoring this with the successful attack. But that's not really fair, as it is the prime point ofthe tactics(although do anything to win is as well). 2) Nathas withdraws from combat in the best way he can(something else I missed) in round 12, which allows him to pin the weasel, then knock it unconscious with Color Spray after releasing the weasel. What I'm going to do is tomorrow after I get off work( a very short day), I will come back and rerun the fight from where you first spot one another. Nathas will run away to dodge summons, and we'll see what happens. Nathas does knock out Darrgon if he ever gets a chance to fire, but with the readied action Melf's, perhaps that will never happen. Unless it is argued otherwise, that is the plan. I am of course happy with that solution. I definitely think that Nathas should be withdrawing from the summons rather than a) not retreating and b) provoking an AoO because of it.
King Uther 07-29-06, 08:11 PM	Faelto vs Treetall and Reinard is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9713510&postcount=782) Take a look and tell me what you think.
hogarth 07-29-06, 09:02 PM	Faelto vs Treetall and Reinard is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9713510&postcount=782) Take a look and tell me what you think. I'm confused by a few things. First, I misinterpreted the rules for inter-league fights; I assumed Treetall and Reinard would start in different starting areas, so my tactics don't make as much sense as they might. The description of inter-league fights in the "Rules of Gladius" thread doesn't say anything about starting positions, unfortunately. Second, it looks like you didn't read my tactics very closely. I mentioned that Reinard would head towards the log across the stream, but you have him following the path towards the stones (round 6). Third, how did Faelto see Treetall in Round 8? She has a Spot modifier of +6, but she's over 100 feet away (-10 penalty) and Treetall has a +14 hide modifier. I suppose it's possible that she rolled a 20 and Treetall rolled a 2, but I'd like to have seen the roll. Fourth, did you note that the hippogriff's flight speed is reduced by 1/2 in the forest map? It's impossible for it to travel 150 feet in two turns and still do a full attack on Reinard. Fifth, why did you say in Round 14 "If Treetall retreats and hides, Faelto gets free melee attacks or ranged attacks with produce flame." How can Faelto attack Treetall if he's hidden? Sixth, why didn't you roll for concealment on any of Faelto's attacks? The light undergrowth gives a 20% miss chance. Those are the discrepancies I've noticed so far -- I'm sure I'll find some more. But mostly I'm wondering how Faelto kept finding Treetall (seemingly without rolling Spot checks!). The undergrowth gives concealment (which means he can hide).
Zevox 07-29-06, 10:00 PM	@ My players - Sorry guys, I had planned on running one of your fights today, but with Dracazar's mapper and rolled down I've been postponing until they come back up. If they're not up by tomorrow afternoon however I'll run them on Invisible Castle and figure out another way to do the mapping. @ Iced - I still don't have tactics from you for the ECL 3 team fight. I'm not under any particular time pressure, but if I don't have any by monday evening (EST) I'm afraid I'll be forced to use simply suggestions given by Telin for your character. Zevox
TelinArtho 07-30-06, 01:07 AM	I acknowledge the issues hogarth has brought up in the Faelto vs Reinard and Treetall fight. Looking at IC, I don't see any spot/hide rolls - so its entirely possible that these weren't rolled. Perhaps King Uther needs to review the rules on the Forest map - because they are fairly "wonky". In any case, I'll wait to edit my character until we hear back from Uther.
King Uther 07-30-06, 02:50 AM	@Hogarth Reasons for no hide/spot checks: Any time I would roll it you would automatically succeed. You cannot hide while summoning creatures, therefore that is an auto-spot. In addition, without Hide in Plain sight you have no way to hide from Faelto without gaining some significant distance. However, I understand your concerns, and as such I will take a good look at the fight tomorrow, then respond to your concerns. I've actually been feeling really sick today but wanted to get the fight up so that in the event that there would be common errors(particularly with the forest map, which I think needs a retooling), there would be enough time to work on it. Although, in all fairness, the rolls are not your friends in this case. Even if you hide and are completely undetectable, after 10 rounds of that you will be auto-spotted and be critted by a crossbow bolt. Then after another ten rounds a nat 20 is rolled, and if it confirms, Treetall would have a lot stacked up against him. Not to mention any animal you summon cannot assail Faelto effectively. But do not let this paragraph fool you. I am going to look at it fairly from a tactical perspective and address every issue you have. But today with the medecine I am on it would not be very thorough I am certain. Edit: To respond to a few things I do know. 1. The hippogriff only hit on its first attack anyway 2. You cannot hide while summoning. Although when I ran the fight I changed when you summoned and got autospotted, so the positioning could have been compromised somewhat. 3. Oops on the concealment for attacks 4. Know that if Reinard changes his move pattern it is very likely when you summon for the first time you will be entangled, and Treetall never rolled well on any Concentration check. 5. Starting position are random. It just so happens you both randomly started in the same spot. Anyways, I'll look at it more tomorrow. @Telin Running fights when your head is woozy from medicine really makes things difficult. That's two fights with two retools this week.
MindWandererB 07-30-06, 08:32 AM	There's something I don't understand about this fight as well: in rounds 14 and 15, it looks like Faelto is getting two chances to disrupt each of Treetall's summons. I can't figure out why. A summon takes one full round, so it should go: Treetall begins, Faelto attacks (and possibly disrupts), Treetall finishes (and probably starts casting another one). I don't think it provokes an AoO to finish casting (only whenever you spend an action to begin or continue casting).
hogarth 07-30-06, 08:37 AM	@Hogarth Reasons for no hide/spot checks: Any time I would roll it you would automatically succeed. You cannot hide while summoning creatures, therefore that is an auto-spot. Why can you not be hidden while summoning? It would certainly trigger a Listen check (although Listen checks have a doubled range penalty on the Forest map). At any rate, the first time you had Treetall spotted, he was just sitting there waiting! In addition, without Hide in Plain sight you have no way to hide from Faelto without gaining some significant distance. It was my understanding that he could hide as long as he could get out of Faelto's line of sight; there are loads of trees for him to move behind and break LOS. Admittedly, Faelto would have a good idea where he went. Not to mention any animal you summon cannot assail Faelto effectively. My idea was to get Fealto to come close and then try to surround her with wolves (on land, not in the bog) so she couldn't retreat. Admittedly that wasn't clear in the tactics, so I don't have any complaints with the way that turned out. Mostly I was disappointed that Treetall's hiding was completely useless!
Traevanon 07-30-06, 10:05 AM	I'm a bit confused as to who is who in that fight. I'd like to follow it, but there are no labels.
Pitlords 07-30-06, 01:55 PM	Assigned: +7: Uther, Cat +3: Erithmu +2: DSugui, MWB, Sauro, Niqil +1: Abyssal, bluemage, Iced, Traevanon, Zelck, Vath, Book +0: Zevox -1: Huan, Telin -4: Myrridin -5: Pittbull, Sunwolf
hogarth 07-30-06, 05:39 PM	5. Starting position are random. It just so happens you both randomly started in the same spot. By the way, since Reinard and Treetall started in the same square, this part of the tactics should have been triggered: If Treetall sees Reinard (who is moving in a counter-clockwise direction), then they will both start moving clockwise along the path looking for Faelto unless it is obvious to them that Faelto is in the counter-clockwise direction. I.e., they should both have been travelling clockwise around the outside of the map. Cheers, hogarth
TheMagister 07-30-06, 06:36 PM	@ Zevox -- WOW, man, that is one heck of a job with that massive melee on the small map. I'm gonna PM you some info real quick... TM
King Uther 07-30-06, 06:43 PM	@hogarth I did miss the part about Reinard and Treetall moving in the same direction if they start next to each other. I think the section about dodging summons sticks out, so I glossed over it. Same thing with the snipe with sling line. Anyways, I am running the fight again from round 2, keeping all the same rolls as I can. I feel a LOT better today, and so I may actually have the chance to deduce things logically. I apologize if you felt frustrated yesterday. Medicine+tired=Ugh.
Zevox 07-30-06, 07:43 PM	Enoch & Kitty vs Dameon & War is up. A mass melee decided by numbers and the dice. @ Iced - I still have no tactics from you for my other fight. I will be running that tomorrow afternoon, so if you want to have control over your character there, please hurry and get me those! Zevox
King Uther 07-30-06, 07:47 PM	Faelto vs Treetall and Reinard edit is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9713510&postcount=782) Fight result didn't change. In fact, it was one-sided. Things that did change: 1. Since Reinard and Treetall mvoed in the same direction(and you made it clear your intention was to get within 60' for a summon), everyone got entangled. 2. The hippogriff, on its last set of attacks, knocked out Reinard and finished with a bite on Treetall(which really didn't matter anyways) 3. Treetall couldn't have escaped the entanglement for 20 rounds, and if the gnome tried all those times there would be no chance for hiding. And even if there was the 10-round delay wouldn't let you hide for infinite rounds. The wolverine never had a chance to catch up, and with Faelto's awesome attack rolls Treetall had no chance once entangled. Two things which confused me: 1. WHy the map maker didn't display names 2. I've seen druids have immunity to entangle, but the ability that would explicitly says any magical effects still impede movement. I feel foggy on the issue Anyways, I have plans for the evening. Please post any issues and I'll get back to you. I could run the rest of the fight out, but I chose not to on the grounds there was no reason to.
Zevox 07-30-06, 08:09 PM	2. I've seen druids have immunity to entangle, but the ability that would explicitly says any magical effects still impede movement. I feel foggy on the issue Druids do not have immunity to entangle in any way, shape, or form. They have Woodland Stride, which lets let them move at full speed through natural undergrowth, but they have no immunity to any form of entanglement, magical or otherwise. Zevox
Zelck 07-30-06, 08:11 PM	The Undertaker Vs. Indrithia Celeth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9719987&postcount=785) is up! Lucky and unlucky rolls were there on both sides. I work tomorrow, but if there're problems, I'll try to fix them tomorrow evening (GMT -6). EDIT: Urr, there are no more guild taxes? I'll take them off the results.
Zevox 07-30-06, 08:30 PM	The Undertaker Vs. Indrithia Celeth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9719987#post9719987) is up! Lucky and unlucky rolls were there on both sides. I work tomorrow, but if there're problems, I'll try to fix them tomorrow evening (GMT -6). Looks pretty good, especially for your first time pitlording. The only error I noticed was that in round 5 Undertaker for some reason gets two move actions and a standard action - a move to draw his crossbow, a standard to cast Ghoul Touch, and another move moving away when Ghoul Touch fails. Given the circumstances he'd probably have ignored drawing the crossbow to see if the Ghoul Touch worked or not first though, so I imagine theres no reason it affects anything. On another note, Abyssal may take issue with your selection to have him use his crossbow rather than further spells. You see, Indrithia has Deflect Arrows, so even if he had hit with his crossbow he could never hurt her with it shy of hiding (unlikely) or going invisible. Just a forewarning. @Zevox: Looks like you broke your streak of bad luck. I’m curious as to why you didn’t grapple; it would have avoided his high AC. That would be because Indrithia isn't a grappler. I chose to have her take Stunning Fist instead of Improved Grapple specifically because I don't like grappling. She also has a grapple check thats barely better than Undertaker's anyway (+4 for her vs +2 for him), so theres fair odds of it failing if she tried it regardless. She was better off meleeing him. Zevox
hogarth 07-30-06, 08:46 PM	King Uther, That's much more like I was expecting. There's still a few things that seem a bit weird: 1) If Reinard could have moved out of the Entangle's area of effect in round 9, why wouldn't he leave it instead of walking deeper into the area of effect? I guess I could have said in my tactics "If we get entangled, we try to escape," but I thought that would have been obvious. 2) I found your disinclination to play out the end of the fight a bit lame (although I can't blame you too much because it could potentially be very long and boring). Isn't it Faelto's responsibility to come closer to Treetall to attack him, or does she get to delay forever? And what happened to Wumpus and the wolverine? Nevertheless, I don't have any problem with the result of this fight. The only real issue was whether Reinard could hit Faelto with his Blindness spell or not. Otherwise, Faelto could use her wand of Cure Light Wounds to heal any damage and she could use Produce Flame/crossbow to pick them off at her leisure. Thanks for the pitlording, hogarth Faelto vs Treetall and Reinard edit is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9713510&postcount=782) Fight result didn't change. In fact, it was one-sided. Things that did change: 1. Since Reinard and Treetall mvoed in the same direction(and you made it clear your intention was to get within 60' for a summon), everyone got entangled. 2. The hippogriff, on its last set of attacks, knocked out Reinard and finished with a bite on Treetall(which really didn't matter anyways) 3. Treetall couldn't have escaped the entanglement for 20 rounds, and if the gnome tried all those times there would be no chance for hiding. And even if there was the 10-round delay wouldn't let you hide for infinite rounds. The wolverine never had a chance to catch up, and with Faelto's awesome attack rolls Treetall had no chance once entangled. Two things which confused me: 1. WHy the map maker didn't display names 2. I've seen druids have immunity to entangle, but the ability that would explicitly says any magical effects still impede movement. I feel foggy on the issue Anyways, I have plans for the evening. Please post any issues and I'll get back to you. I could run the rest of the fight out, but I chose not to on the grounds there was no reason to.
Zelck 07-30-06, 08:50 PM	Looks pretty good, especially for your first time pitlording. The only error I noticed was that in round 5 Undertaker for some reason gets two move actions and a standard action - a move to draw his crossbow, a standard to cast Ghoul Touch, and another move moving away when Ghoul Touch fails. Given the circumstances he'd probably have ignored drawing the crossbow to see if the Ghoul Touch worked or not first though, so I imagine theres no reason it affects anything. Yup. Still, I don't think it really matters; he can just draw his crossbow the next round (which changes nothing) or I could move your attacks up by one round (which also changes nothing; you still need till round 10 to land that final blow). On another note, Abyssal may take issue with your selection to have him use his crossbow rather than further spells. You see, Indrithia has Deflect Arrows, so even if he had hit with his crossbow he could never hurt her with it shy of hiding (unlikely) or going invisible. Just a forewarning. Rats, missed that, and this is more serious. Well, Burning Hands isn't going to do much, and keeping those two crossbow rolls, The Undertaker wouldn't have hit with Scorching Ray unless he used True Strike, and neither of those spells weren't mentioned in the tactics. I definitely wouldn't have used True Strike without it being in his tactics, as he only has one left and no scrolls of it. I don't want to risk using it when Abyssal could have been saving it for the next round. Also note: 1x Scorching Ray + 2x Magic Missiles deals 4d6 + 4d4 + 2 damage for an average of 14+10+2 = 26 damage. If it deals just 2 less damage than average, Indrithia's not going down. Given that The Undertaker can't determine Indrithia's hit points and also can't tell how much his Magic Missiles did, he probably wouldn't know that using True Strike + Scorching Ray would give him a near-guaranteed victory. I could have him surrender before using the two bolts, though. I also realized that I forgot to roll to see if he recovered any bolts. Lemme do that right now...
Salrantol 07-30-06, 09:01 PM	@Zevox: Good job on the fight, thanks for informing me that it takes a standard action to command undead. I do have one complaint though: In round 7, Beacon attacks The Creature With More Flesh Than You'll Have Shortly.Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks.Beacon does not have that trick trained, so he cannot attack The Creature With More Flesh Than You'll Have Shortly, so Fleshy should have 13 HP more.
Zevox 07-30-06, 09:04 PM	Rats, missed that, and this is more serious. Well, Burning Hands isn't going to do much, and keeping those two crossbow rolls, The Undertaker wouldn't have hit with Scorching Ray unless he used True Strike, and neither of those spells weren't mentioned in the tactics. I definitely wouldn't have used True Strike without it being in his tactics, as he only has one left and no scrolls of it. I don't want to risk using it when Abyssal could have been saving it for the next round. Yep, thats about the size of it. Burning Hands would actually likely do nothing - Indrithia would have a +11 reflex save vs its DC of 17, and if she makes it she takes no damage due to evasion - and scorching rays will just miss if edited in, as will melee attacks with his quarterstaff or dagger. You're absolutely correct about him having no way to know that using True Strike with one would give him a nigh-guaranteed victory (the only way to determine your opponent's hp is with the Heal skill combined with the appropriate knowledge skill, and Undertaker has no ranks in Heal), and as pitlord its entirely your choice as to whether or not he uses it as an improv - choosing to have him conserve it for those reasons is well within your rights. So basically the match is fine as is, unless Abyssal wants to try Burning Hands and hope Indrithia fails the save. Zevox
Zevox 07-30-06, 09:07 PM	@Zevox: Good job on the fight, thanks for informing me that it takes a standard action to command undead. I do have one complaint though: In round 7, Beacon attacks The Creature With More Flesh Than You'll Have Shortly.Beacon does not have that trick trained, so he cannot attack The Creature With More Flesh Than You'll Have Shortly, so Fleshy should have 13 HP more. *raises eyebrow* Indeed, I forgot that. I suppose even Dameon's prodding while riding him won't overcome that. So Fleshy survives after all - I'll edit that in to the results. Zevox
Traevanon 07-30-06, 10:05 PM	@Zevox: I think you have to give people not only names, but comments too to get them to display below the map. I just throw in things like "standing", "mounted", "prone", "flying" or "charging"
Iced 07-31-06, 02:14 AM	@DSugai + MWB - fight will be run tomorrow unless someone else picks it up. @Zevox- Basic tactics sent
Abyssal Stalker 07-31-06, 04:31 AM	@Zelck & Zevox: First of all, thanks for the great job you did with the fight! Keep up the good work. :thumbsup: I don't see anything that should be changed in the fight. I had to trust in Ghoul Touch and on the other hand remember that I still had a fight coming. My tactics weren't accurate enough so I can only blame myself for the loss. Thanks for a good fight and a respectable opponent! EDIT: Oh yeah, one thing you should add: The 3FC info (you can find it in the Rules thread on the Pitlording section). I think that if UT has any luck, his buff will be running also in the next fight!
Dracazar 07-31-06, 05:59 AM	Mapper and Roller again up
DSugui 07-31-06, 10:58 AM	@ All my gladiators: I had a hell of weekend, but I intend to run two fights today and one tomorrow. If something comes up, I will post here and pass a fight to someone.
Traevanon 07-31-06, 11:20 AM	Death vs Tan has begun and first blood has been drawn! Check it out if you like and let me know if there are any mistakes so far. I'm off to work.
DirewolfX 07-31-06, 01:56 PM	@King Uther: Why does it say Reinard used a Scroll of Mage Armor? He had the spell memorized and it's his 3rd fight in the three week cycle.
Abyssal Stalker 07-31-06, 02:55 PM	Izumi vs Harpy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9724423&postcount=787) has been posted with a little story. Check it out and see if I can tolerate constructive criticism! ;) @SauroGrenom: Maybe you can use the story in Gladius Weekly?
Myrridin 07-31-06, 03:35 PM	Neidr vs Digester Probably a few things wrong with this, since it's my first Pitlorded fight in a few years. Edit: So I got the answer on the climbing question. Neidr would've been able to start her climb upwards, but only would've gotten quarter speed (5' off the ground) in the first round. Then doesn't make her climb check in the second round, so stays put. Then the digester is pretty much in range, and the fight will more than likely happen as is. If this isn't close enough, please let me know, and I'll re-edit. However the digester does have 60' movement, and will run away from the arrows, more than likely ending up in melee again. Let me know.
DSugui 07-31-06, 05:34 PM	Anakala (TelinArtho) vs. Annalina Vale (Zevox) is up HERE Shorter than I expected.
Zevox 07-31-06, 07:08 PM	Andurwin & Ihdald vs Farig & Emorick is up. The side with better tactics and more luck wins. @ DSugui - Looks good to me. Like I said in the tactics, Anakala really had nothing she could do if Hold Person failed. Though I must ask - is that 3FC section you mentioned in the wrap-up really manditoy? I was under the impression the new default sheet wasn't. And frankly it seems to me that it'd be just a waste of space if you simply note ongoing effects as prebuffs, mark off used spells/pp/per-day abilities, and remove used items appropriately, which unless I'm mistaken we're already required to do. Zevox
DSugui 07-31-06, 08:05 PM	Though I must ask - is that 3FC section you mentioned in the wrap-up really manditoy? I was under the impression the new default sheet wasn't. And frankly it seems to me that it'd be just a waste of space if you simply note ongoing effects as prebuffs, mark off used spells/pp/per-day abilities, and remove used items appropriately, which unless I'm mistaken we're already required to do. Well, in the Standard Character Sheet it says This section is mandatory. This will be used to record all of your summary information for each battle in which you participate in the current 3 Fight Cycle this character is involved in. Since this information should be listed in template format by your pitlord in each fight summary, you should be able to just copy and paste that information from the fight summary here. However, the template is also provided here, so that even though the pitlord may not use the template, you can still bring your character into compliance by using it. If one or more of the lines within each week is not applicable for your character (such as a barbarian not having any spells or power points to use), simply mark it N/A. If one of the lines does apply, but you do not have an entry in that section during a fight (such as in the case of not using any expendables one week), then mark that line as None. So I would say yes, it is mandatory. I don't know about you, but I really like checking if everything is ok with the characters before running the fight, and this section really helps a lot, specially with the summary of the fight, where I have to put information about the past weeks.
Zelck 07-31-06, 09:11 PM	Andurwin & Ihdald vs Farig & Emorick is up. The side with better tactics and more luck wins. @ DSugui - Looks good to me. Like I said in the tactics, Anakala really had nothing she could do if Hold Person failed. Though I must ask - is that 3FC section you mentioned in the wrap-up really manditoy? I was under the impression the new default sheet wasn't. And frankly it seems to me that it'd be just a waste of space if you simply note ongoing effects as prebuffs, mark off used spells/pp/per-day abilities, and remove used items appropriately, which unless I'm mistaken we're already required to do. Zevox Well, I noticed that my powerstone's Energy Missiles should do 3 less damage since it's electric, not fire. It really didn't matter in the end though, since we put Emorick down to -9 HP. Other than that, looks good to me :).
bgt 07-31-06, 09:12 PM	@Myrridin It appears that a rather important correction I made to Neidr's sheet was lost in the board transfers. As a wereviper, Neidr has all of a snake's skills. This includes a +8 racial bonus to climb checks, can use her dex instead of str, and the ability to take 10 on climb checks. This means that Neidr automaticly gets a result of 29 on her climb checks. Not only is that enough to scale the wall, it's enough for her to double her speed while climbing. In the round she reaches the wall, she'll go 15 feet up it. I had forgotten this when I sent out my tactics, and would appreciate it if you didn't use the tattoo for climbing(there's no sense in doing so). Rather, put it towards shooting the digester or something. Other than that (which was no fault of yours), the fight looks good.
Zevox 07-31-06, 09:37 PM	Well, I noticed that my powerstone's Energy Missiles should do 3 less damage since it's electric, not fire. It really didn't matter in the end though, since we put Emorick down to -9 HP. Other than that, looks good to me :). *raised eyebrow* I noticed that when I looked at your sheet, but shouldn't it just be a normal energy missile powerstone, no need to limit the type in advance? Regardless it means nothing to the fight, but I'm curious about that - particularly, if its true, where that rule can be found, since I've never heard of a rule like that outside our own house rule for Alter Slef/Polymorph scrolls. Zevox
TelinArtho 07-31-06, 09:43 PM	Well, there's nothing wrong there with the fight as run Zevox. I'm mostly disappointed in my ally in the fight for not submitting more extensive tactics as we had discussed on Thursday and Friday. I can't believe he didn't send them until the last minute and then the ones he did send were 2nd rate. And this is after he convinced me to change my own ideas (which was to take out Idhald first in melee and then take care of the kineticist...). Oh well - live and learn.
Zelck 07-31-06, 11:24 PM	*raised eyebrow* I noticed that when I looked at your sheet, but shouldn't it just be a normal energy missile powerstone, no need to limit the type in advance? Regardless it means nothing to the fight, but I'm curious about that - particularly, if its true, where that rule can be found, since I've never heard of a rule like that outside our own house rule for Alter Slef/Polymorph scrolls. Oh. Maybe I just read the rule for Alter Self/Polymorph and thought it applied to all spells. Sweet. Well, there's nothing wrong there with the fight as run Zevox. I'm mostly disappointed in my ally in the fight for not submitting more extensive tactics as we had discussed on Thursday and Friday. I can't believe he didn't send them until the last minute and then the ones he did send were 2nd rate. And this is after he convinced me to change my own ideas (which was to take out Idhald first in melee and then take care of the kineticist...). I think taking out Ihdald first would have been more advantageous, though IMO I was the more dangerous character. Ihdald would not have been able to survive a 2v1 in melee, and I can't win a 2v1 unless you guys bunch up (which you wouldn't have). With the starting positions, you definitely would have had an advantage.
Traevanon 07-31-06, 11:44 PM	Death v Tan: the Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9694747&postcount=777) This fight is complete. Please let me know if there are any errors.
NiQil 07-31-06, 11:56 PM	Death v Tan: the Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9694747&postcount=777) This fight is complete. Please let me know if there are any errors. Looks good to me...this is the second time those armor spikes have saved one of my Horsemen vs Tan....even without the dogs, Tan could be a very successful character with a little more strategy behind him...
SauroGrenom 08-01-06, 01:14 AM	Karen vs Kraegin is finished.
Erithmu 08-01-06, 01:21 AM	Karen vs Kraegin is finished. I'll say this for Telin's sake: Elementals are immune to critical hits, and with the dice you rolled it would end up leaving the elemental at 1hp after the AoO, and it would survive.
TelinArtho 08-01-06, 01:35 AM	@Sauro - although I disagree with your ruling on the shaken status not affecting grapple checks (as they are a type of attack roll in my opinion), I can see that they don't make any difference in the fight - so I don't see the point to argue it. The big issue is that, at least according to the map in round 8 that you have presented - Karen cannot charge Kraegin - being hindered by the corner of the hedge there. Since that +2 is intrinsic in allowing Karen to hit Kraegin - that changes things rather drastically. [EDIT] Also - elementals cannot be crit - which means Torrent gets away (since instead of 23 damage, Torrent only takes 10 damage - given the die roll on IC). And, although it didn't make a difference specifically here - Torrent probably would've been using dodge against Karen during the fight (or at the very least one opponent...).
lonewolf 08-01-06, 01:36 AM	Karen vs Kraegin is finished. After a quick look I only see one thing: You missed that Karen wasted a lot of PP by prebuffing with dissolving weapon. This makes the fight even more loopsided but Karen has(a lot) less pps available for the next fights. That prebuff was a relict from before 3FC. :nonono:
TelinArtho 08-01-06, 01:49 AM	After a quick look I only see one thing: You missed that Karen wasted a lot of PP by prebuffing with dissolving weapon. This makes the fight even more loopsided but Karen has(a lot) less pps available for the next fights. That prebuff was a relict from before 3FC. :nonono: Hmmm - that's not so good in one way - but is good in another. In this case, Torrent is almost certainly dead; however, this does mean that Karen has to use a stone of Expansion rather than the PP and can't manifest grip of iron - in which case, my problem with shaken status not affecting a grapple becomes more prevalent.
bluemage55 08-01-06, 03:18 AM	I must regretably give up my fight for the week (Ba'al of the Grave (Book5) vs. Krug Butcher (DSugui)). I have a final in a summer course on Thursday and I realized after a review session today that I will be needing as much time to study as possible. PM me if you wish to take the fight and I will forward the tactics.
SauroGrenom 08-01-06, 09:29 AM	@Sauro - although I disagree with your ruling on the shaken status not affecting grapple checks (as they are a type of attack roll in my opinion), I can see that they don't make any difference in the fight - so I don't see the point to argue it. The big issue is that, at least according to the map in round 8 that you have presented - Karen cannot charge Kraegin - being hindered by the corner of the hedge there. Since that +2 is intrinsic in allowing Karen to hit Kraegin - that changes things rather drastically. [EDIT] Also - elementals cannot be crit - which means Torrent gets away (since instead of 23 damage, Torrent only takes 10 damage - given the die roll on IC). And, although it didn't make a difference specifically here - Torrent probably would've been using dodge against Karen during the fight (or at the very least one opponent...). I can understand how you dissagree about grapple checks and Shakened. I had to go back and reread the definition of a grapple check to be sure. The SRD says that a grapple check is "like an attack roll". Also there are several different modifiers that apply to grapple checks but not attack rolls. And there are some that apply to both. Perhaps we should have an Elder discussion about it. I'm sure both sides can make a case. With regards to this particular battle, it may effect some of the rolls, but Kraegin cannot escape the grapple without granting an AoO (and I'll use the AoO that critted on Torrent in a previous version of the battle). Also Kraegin has little to no damage output potential while in a grapple with Karen. So the battle is kind of over as soon as the grapple begins. There is a multitude of various squares Karen can charge into and attack Kraegin with her 10' natural reach. Also even in round 8 as shown Karen can charge Kraegin. Any repeating pattern of movement along a diagonal can be considered a streight line. It is easy to make a path as described that allows Karen to get into melee. What else can we do when trying to represent an infinitely divisible space as a set of "squares" on the battle map? I'm reminded of how a knight chess piece moves... Over one and up two is the same as up two and over one. We are required to consider both of these to be "streight lines" of movement on our battle grid. If one path is blocked by the edge of a building, but the other is not, is the character blocked from moving in a streight line to that location? I think not. I missed the dissolving weapons. So I need to put an extra 4d6 worth of damage in round 5 on Torrent. Also I need to put an extra 4d6 of damage in round 8 on the spiked gauntlet. Karen does not get GOI, but she does have greater damage output. That may end the battle early. It did end a couple rounds early. Although Torrent does survive and stabalize at -7hp.
Myrridin 08-01-06, 09:34 AM	@Myrridin It appears that a rather important correction I made to Neidr's sheet was lost in the board transfers. As a wereviper, Neidr has all of a snake's skills. This includes a +8 racial bonus to climb checks, can use her dex instead of str, and the ability to take 10 on climb checks. This means that Neidr automaticly gets a result of 29 on her climb checks. Not only is that enough to scale the wall, it's enough for her to double her speed while climbing. In the round she reaches the wall, she'll go 15 feet up it. I had forgotten this when I sent out my tactics, and would appreciate it if you didn't use the tattoo for climbing(there's no sense in doing so). Rather, put it towards shooting the digester or something. Other than that (which was no fault of yours), the fight looks good. Ahh yes, I didn't see that on the sheet, which made me wonder about the tactic of climbing. I'll make the correction to the climbing, if you'd like. It means you'll probably get one or two more shots with the bow off. However I still believe the fight will devolve into melee, as it will run away, out of LOS, and you'll have to come down to fight it. From there it'll close, and the acid will still eat up Neidr. I can remove the use of the tattoo, but I do think the fight result will stay the same.
TelinArtho 08-01-06, 09:51 AM	I can understand how you dissagree about grapple checks and Shakened. I had to go back and reread the definition of a grapple check to be sure. The SRD says that a grapple check is "like an attack roll". Also there are several different modifiers that apply to grapple checks but not attack rolls. And there are some that apply to both. Perhaps we should have an Elder discussion about it. I'm sure both sides can make a case. With regards to this particular battle, it may effect some of the rolls, but Kraegin cannot escape the grapple without granting an AoO (and I'll use the AoO that critted on Torrent in a previous version of the battle). Also Kraegin has little to no damage output potential while in a grapple with Karen. So the battle is kind of over as soon as the grapple begins. There is a multitude of various squares Karen can charge into and attack Kraegin with her 10' natural reach. Also even in round 8 as shown Karen can charge Kraegin. Any repeating pattern of movement along a diagonal can be considered a streight line. It is easy to make a path as described that allows Karen to get into melee. What else can we do when trying to represent an infinitely divisible space as a set of "squares" on the battle map? I'm reminded of how a knight chess piece moves... Over one and up two is the same as up two and over one. We are required to consider both of these to be "streight lines" of movement on our battle grid. If one path is blocked by the edge of a building, but the other is not, is the character blocked from moving in a streight line to that location? I think not. Well, I certainly disagree with this. According to you - in this situation, y can charge x because he can move up one and over two?: . . . . . . . . x . . . . . . . - - - y . . . . Also - although I didn't put any tactics in about Kraegin in a grapple I would like to ask why you would have him attempt to draw a weapon rather than break the grapple? First of all - Karen has a significant advantage over him in a grapple, but if he's able to break the grapple, he might have a chance to retaliate with a spell. Instead, you have him try to draw a weapon that will take 20+ hits to take down his opponent? Of course, since he didn't succeed in the original run, I didn't see the point of mentioning it - but that seems like my worst option. Lastly about the shaken status - like I said - I'm not going to press it right now because I don't have the time and it likely won't make a difference, since you feel that my opponent can charge around a corner... As to the bolded line in your quote above - I would appreciate if you reread the rules on charging: Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.) As you can see - you must have a clear path of movement with nothing in the way (which there is the hedge). You also have to move to the closest space from which you can attack - meaning he has to stop with a square between us, and it has a specific location on the map - not a "multitude" of squares to choose from. [EDIT] Also - you need to finish updating the summary - since you say that Torrent survives (you deleted it from one place, but not the other).
Traevanon 08-01-06, 09:56 AM	Looks good to me...this is the second time those armor spikes have saved one of my Horsemen vs Tan....even without the dogs, Tan could be a very successful character with a little more strategy behind him... The Armor Spikes have had another effect. They have convinced me not to rework Khabil with all Cleric levels instead of one Fighter level. I would lose my Martial Proficiency and thus my proficiency with Armor Spikes..
bgt 08-01-06, 10:33 AM	@Myrridin-You've got a point, I'm not going to be able to chew through 68 Hp before it to runs away. I'd just have a slightly less embarassing defeat on my hands. Just take the tattoo out and we'll leave it at that. :) Personally, I'm kicking myself for forgeting about the concentrated stream. Apparently, it's easy to forget things when you type up tactics in 5 minutes. Ah, well, I'll be better prepared for the next digester.
SauroGrenom 08-01-06, 11:02 AM	Well, I certainly disagree with this. According to you - in this situation, y can charge x because he can move up one and over two?: . . . . . . . . x . . . . . . . - - - y . . . . Also - although I didn't put any tactics in about Kraegin in a grapple I would like to ask why you would have him attempt to draw a weapon rather than break the grapple?I made a comment in the fight about this and in my last post. Since Karen has a spiked chain in hand, any attempt to break the grapple and escape will naturally result in being tripped or attacked as you move through her threatined area. So Kraegin cannot get away to safely cast. One way or the other he is granting an AoO (a critical hit none the less). It's a moot point realy because he doesn't make any of the grapple checks to either escape or draw a weapon. First of all - Karen has a significant advantage over him in a grapple, but if he's able to break the grapple, he might have a chance to retaliate with a spell. Instead, you have him try to draw a weapon that will take 20+ hits to take down his opponent? Of course, since he didn't succeed in the original run, I didn't see the point of mentioning it - but that seems like my worst option. Lastly about the shaken status - like I said - I'm not going to press it right now because I don't have the time and it likely won't make a difference, since you feel that my opponent can charge around a corner... As to the bolded line in your quote above - I would appreciate if you reread the rules on charging: As you can see - you must have a clear path of movement with nothing in the way (which there is the hedge). You also have to move to the closest space from which you can attack - meaning he has to stop with a square between us, and it has a specific location on the map - not a "multitude" of squares to choose from. [EDIT] Also - you need to finish updating the summary - since you say that Torrent survives (you deleted it from one place, but not the other).I also edited the fight summary. I don't know why I previously forgot the effect of Thandrull on Karen's rewards. Thandrull and Torrent should cancel in effects on rewards. Torrent does survive. With the acid damage he falls to the first attack and ends at -7hp. So there is no good reason to attack him further. Then on the following round he stabalizes, so he is healed between battles as is typical for all such situations. It seams you are correct about the charge... Every line from each corner in the 1st square to every corner of the last square must be free of obstrution. Although I find that to be ridiculious, it is the case in the rules. I've always though of it as you must move in a particular direction and that all squares you move through must lie along a line and be free of obstruction. Learn something new each day. Well even though this is the case, I'm affraid that it still won't change the outcome of the battle. In round 7 I had Karen stop when she had used two move actions, because I thought she had clear lines to charge into the open area beyond. She could easily run down the ally and end 5' further at (32,22) where she actually has clear lines. It is clearly a situational advantage for Karen to run. Since she faces a caster, the loss of AC is of no concern to her while having a position to charge is critical to her tactics. *Shrug* I'll edit that into the battle.
Myrridin 08-01-06, 11:19 AM	@Myrridin-You've got a point, I'm not going to be able to chew through 68 Hp before it to runs away. I'd just have a slightly less embarassing defeat on my hands. Just take the tattoo out and we'll leave it at that. :) Personally, I'm kicking myself for forgeting about the concentrated stream. Apparently, it's easy to forget things when you type up tactics in 5 minutes. Ah, well, I'll be better prepared for the next digester. Sure thing. I mean, I'm more than willing to continue it, I just don't see it going much different. At least you won't have used anything besides one arrow. :) The concentrated stream really was the killer, as it's natural attack only had a chance to get 1 point past your DR.
Myrridin 08-01-06, 11:49 AM	@bgt: The rewards for your fight have been posted.
Iced 08-01-06, 12:27 PM	@DSugai and MindwWandererB - Sorry for not finishing the fight last night I got called in to for another 4 hours and I got home late. It'll get finished today.
DSugui 08-01-06, 02:12 PM	Kilpquabjeg (hogarth) vs. Lantash (bluemage55) is up HERE Fastest fight I've ever run.
hogarth 08-01-06, 02:24 PM	Kilpquabjeg (hogarth) vs. Lantash (bluemage55) is up HERE Fastest fight I've ever run. I was hoping for a repeat of Lantash's last fight, and I wasn't disappointed. :D Thanks for the pitlording!
bluemage55 08-01-06, 03:57 PM	Kilpquabjeg (hogarth) vs. Lantash (bluemage55) is up HERE Fastest fight I've ever run. Ouch. It just had to be a crit. From a caster. :rolleyes:
hogarth 08-01-06, 05:17 PM	@King Uther: Why does it say Reinard used a Scroll of Mage Armor? He had the spell memorized and it's his 3rd fight in the three week cycle. @King Uther: Also, in the amended fight Treetall didn't cast any spells; he only used one use of his Bag of Tricks. Could you alter the fight post to reflect this?
TelinArtho 08-01-06, 05:34 PM	I also edited the fight summary. I don't know why I previously forgot the effect of Thandrull on Karen's rewards. Thandrull and Torrent should cancel in effects on rewards. Torrent does survive. With the acid damage he falls to the first attack and ends at -7hp. So there is no good reason to attack him further. Then on the following round he stabalizes, so he is healed between battles as is typical for all such situations. It seams you are correct about the charge... Every line from each corner in the 1st square to every corner of the last square must be free of obstrution. Although I find that to be ridiculious, it is the case in the rules. I've always though of it as you must move in a particular direction and that all squares you move through must lie along a line and be free of obstruction. Learn something new each day. Well even though this is the case, I'm affraid that it still won't change the outcome of the battle. In round 7 I had Karen stop when she had used two move actions, because I thought she had clear lines to charge into the open area beyond. She could easily run down the ally and end 5' further at (32,22) where she actually has clear lines. It is clearly a situational advantage for Karen to run. Since she faces a caster, the loss of AC is of no concern to her while having a position to charge is critical to her tactics. *Shrug* I'll edit that into the battle. So because she could've run to get beyond the hedge, so she might be able to charge - you are changing it so she willingly takes a hit on AC. And then - even though Kraegin has an entire move action after casting doom - you don't have him move to safety? I'm not very satisfied by this course change at all. Had Karen had more regular movement, that would be one thing. To change her action to a run, just so you can keep the fight exactly the same is a completely different matter. Its not like from her previous position she couldn't move and attack either - its just that if she charges - she actually hits.
bluemage55 08-01-06, 06:19 PM	As posted on the previous page, my fight is still up for grabs. PM me if you would like to take it.
DSugui 08-02-06, 11:01 AM	@TM and Traev: Sorry, guys. I intended to run your fight yesterday, but I got the flu and I am feeling like :censored: right now... @Iced and MWB: I noticed that Daisy vs Sunstroke is finished. The fight is ok by me, but I want to know if MWB has any issues before editing Daisy's sheet.
MindWandererB 08-02-06, 01:57 PM	Double post.
MindWandererB 08-02-06, 02:04 PM	@TM and Traev: Sorry, guys. I intended to run your fight yesterday, but I got the flu and I am feeling like :censored: right now... @Iced and MWB: I noticed that Daisy vs Sunstroke is finished. The fight is ok by me, but I want to know if MWB has any issues before editing Daisy's sheet. Unfortunately, I do have issues with it. Prot. Evil does indeed protect against neutral summons--I'm surprised a veteran like Iced got this wrong. That changes the whole fight. (Also, Spike Growth shouldn't work on terrain where there are no plants, although I'll grant you Entangle, since the plants actually reach for you.) So I'm going to ask for a holdover on this one (unless it gets fixed in the next hour). I'm also asking for a holdover on Zero & Dronnar vs. Leif. Huan deliberately made the choice to not follow my tactics, and that was not appropriate here. Had Zero sniped as I asked, the fight would have gone much differently.
TheMagister 08-02-06, 05:50 PM	@TM and Traev: Sorry, guys. I intended to run your fight yesterday, but I got the flu and I am feeling like :censored: right now... Bummer. Sorry you're not feeling well; I had a nasty 24 hour bug just a few weeks ago. So, will anyone pick this one up? TM