Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 07-04-07, 12:43 PM	Fights of the Week: July 4-5th Pairings are delayed until July 5th due to the American Independance Day Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindwandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool used to suffice until it got taken down without giving us proper notification... the Nerve Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Recent News and Developments Also, the council has finally figured out what to do about Handle Animal allies. Read the results here and here. Anyone who has a handle animal/purchased ally that doesn't conform to these rules is now eligible to be put in prison. Denth is coming. Is anyone ready to take him on? Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
TheMagister 07-04-07, 12:58 PM	You should make it wheat instead.
Vathelokai 07-04-07, 01:36 PM	But I'm already taking on Denth... :P
templer10 07-04-07, 01:57 PM	err is edit deadline today or tommarow then? i got all those violations to fix...
Zevox 07-04-07, 02:04 PM	err is edit deadline today or tommarow then? i got all those violations to fix... All deadlines were pushed back to tomorrow for the delayed pairings. Always works that way when pairings are delayed, for future reference. Zevox
Scribelords 07-04-07, 06:37 PM	General Announcements New Photos One of our oldest and one of our newest have submitted photos to the gallery. Check 'em out. Unfortunately the gallery is currently archived, but they'll be added eventually. For now, look at them here... http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x45/Pitlords/Member%20Photos/Vathelokai.jpg http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x45/Pitlords/Member%20Photos/stimpydoda.jpg Birthdays I'm horrible about remember birthdays. Appologies for the lack of announcement. You have all gotten your credits. This month, look out for the birthdays of Saurogrenom, TheMagister, TaggIIV, and the illustrious WizO_Shadow! Also this month, the birthday of The Core Coliseum itself, July 28. This year we turn 4! Writing Contest Due to delays in submission the deadline for the writing contest is being postponed to the 28th. When it first came up, a lot of people said they wanted to submit, but have been having trouble with finding writing time. If you have something half finished, send me a PM. I may move the deadline back further if needed. Newspaper of Gladius Our perenial publication will be coming back soon. We are always looking for writers. No submission is too small for the paper. Two sentence briefs and gossip are fine by me. We are currently working out a credit system to pay for all submissions (though short articles will get fractions of credits, the same as the prison). Interested parties can send PMs to Scribelords or Vathelokai.
Abyssal Stalker 07-05-07, 11:16 AM	Galleries and birthdays are archived...
stimpydoda 07-05-07, 11:52 AM	I have two concerns: 1. Lycidas' fight against Severin is still not done. 2. I sent in for Ymandrake to be added to the roster yesterday, so I hope he makes it for pairings.
TelinArtho 07-05-07, 12:04 PM	Well, on the latter, if you sent a PM to Pitlords, you shouldn't have to worry about it (MWB did mention he wouldn't be around yesterday - so it is not a big surprise he didn't update the roster). On the former, I can't help with that. If it hasn't been started - then it will be held over and reassigned. If it was completed but still has outstanding issues - assuming your pitlord was made aware of them - it should be held over. I'm not sure what the situation is, but if you are not sure - you could PM pitlords to find out (he may or may not respond in time - but it doesn't hurt to ask).
MindWandererB 07-05-07, 02:20 PM	Announcement: Due to circumstances that I failed to foresee, I doubt I'll be able to do the pairings today. My extreme apologies to all. I'm going to do my best to get the roster up to date before the deadline, but I'm going to have to ask someone to cover for me from that point. Telin and Sauro have the Pitlords account info; I'm fine with any of the Elders giving it a shot if they don't have time. Again, sorry for the late notice.
TelinArtho 07-05-07, 02:31 PM	PM sent - just let me know when you are done with the account and I'll take over.
templer10 07-05-07, 02:44 PM	Telin for the rescue.... now any chance someone will approve the latest in the blackmarket since sauro isnt around today it seems?
MindWandererB 07-05-07, 03:01 PM	Telin for the rescue.... now any chance someone will approve the latest in the blackmarket since sauro isnt around today it seems? Hmm... Sauro said he'd get to that stuff yesterday. Too late now, as the deadline is upon us. Telin, it's all you.
Pitlords 07-05-07, 03:03 PM	Actually - Sauro's online right now. I assume he'll do it before he signs off. If he doesn't do it by the time I get through with pairings, I'll take a look.
Zevox 07-05-07, 03:04 PM	I haven't gotten CAPs from him for PSI this week yet, either. I wonder whats up with him? Zevox
templer10 07-05-07, 03:06 PM	Actually - Sauro's online right now. I assume he'll do it before he signs off. If he doesn't do it by the time I get through with pairings, I'll take a look. Would appriciate it - i already updated in my sheet assuming it will get approved (since it's nothing speciel) so i will just point out to the approval in the tactics.
SauroGrenom 07-05-07, 03:32 PM	I haven't gotten CAPs from him for PSI this week yet, either. I wonder whats up with him? Zevox Done and sent as of a few minutes ago.
SauroGrenom 07-05-07, 03:33 PM	Telin for the rescue.... now any chance someone will approve the latest in the blackmarket since sauro isnt around today it seems? I just got all that finished. PM's sent to pitlords now. My own characters are not updated and will miss a weeks of activity, but duty before fun.
Pitlords 07-05-07, 04:00 PM	Looks like I could benefit by having a couple more volunteers for fights. I need 3-5 I think.
Pitlords 07-05-07, 04:16 PM	Pairings are done - but I'm still in need of a few more pitlords. Here's the fights up for grabs: Jevian Rond (amalcon) vs. Sabretooth (NiQil) : XXXXX [Arena] Vallgar the Unhinged (TelinArtho) vs. Daren Legrad (Yitzi) : XXXXX [Temple] Kraegin (TelinArtho) vs. Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) : XXXXX [Sewer] I have not updated credits yet - pending the results of who picks up these fights, here's the current tally though: Erithmu F1 Q4 Khaim F-1(Never submitted fight last week) Macbrea F1 MitzaVolchenko C3 Q-1 C-1 F2 Salrantol F1 Sjiggie F1 stimpydoda F1 TelinArtho Q1 C-4 F4 G1 A1 templer10 A-2 F3 TheMagister Q-1 F2 G1 Yitzi C-2 F2 Zevox C-1 F4 G1 SauroGrenom C3 Q-1 G1 A1 Malither76 Q2 Q-1 Vathelokai Q-1 G1 MindWandererB G1 NiQil A1
amalcon 07-05-07, 04:17 PM	Saldor Amalcon and Inzin Dar'Ath just fought last week; any chance of this one getting changed?
Pitlords 07-05-07, 04:19 PM	Sure. Isaiah Shar (xZerasx) vs. Inzin Dar'ath (waywreth) : TelinArtho [Arena] Saldor Amalcon (amalcon) vs. Rolf (Dr.Funk) : Yitzi [Arena]
stimpydoda 07-05-07, 04:24 PM	Looks like I could benefit by having a couple more volunteers for fights. I need 3-5 I think. I can take Jevian Rond (amalcon) vs. Sabretooth (NiQil) : XXXXX [Arena]
hogarth 07-05-07, 04:26 PM	I'll take Darren and Vallgar. EDIT: I just noticed that Balthazar Picsou has an arena fight. I was trying to get a miniquest for him. Is that not allowed at ECL 4?
Pitlords 07-05-07, 04:31 PM	Pairings are done - but I'm still in need of a few more pitlords. Here's the fights up for grabs: Jevian Rond (amalcon) vs. Sabretooth (NiQil) : stimpydoda[color=orange][Arena] Vallgar the Unhinged (TelinArtho) vs. Daren Legrad (Yitzi) : hogarth[Temple] Kraegin (TelinArtho) vs. Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) : XXXXX [Sewer] Done and Done. Who would like to take Kraegin vs Baelin?
Macbrea 07-05-07, 04:32 PM	Man.. Templar10 isn't going to like me after this week.. :P
Pitlords 07-05-07, 04:34 PM	I'll take Darren and Vallgar. EDIT: I just noticed that Balthazar Picsou has an arena fight. I was trying to get a miniquest for him. Is that not allowed at ECL 4? Nope - its allowed. I just missed it. Balthazar Picsou (hogarth) miniquests to kill somebody : XXXXX Mohmat Iptomor (Eluria) vs. Slade Tungsten (Sjiggie) : Zevox [Forest] Ialgo (TelinArtho) vs. The shadow (Rauul) vs. Arbin Softfoot (Yitzi) : templer10 [Cavern] [All-vs-All] Ironically, Slade was originally assigned a monster fight, but I moved him into the All vs All when I noticed the pitlord situation... Of course, this does mean I still need two pitlords...
Pitlords 07-05-07, 04:36 PM	Actually - I'll give the miniquest to Sjiggie since he has the offer for it.
Erithmu 07-05-07, 04:39 PM	Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) intercepts Freedom Fighters operative (Human Fighter 10) : Erithmu [Forest] Like I know how to build a 10th level fighter ... sheesh ... Am I allowed to buy a mount for him?
Pitlords 07-05-07, 04:44 PM	As far as I know - he is allowed to have allies that would fit in his purchasable limits. Zevox might be able to shed some light on it though.
xZerasx 07-05-07, 04:53 PM	Just a question, but should I (Isaiah Shar ECL 3) be fighting (Inzin Dar'ath ECL 4)? Perhaps I have looked at the wrong sheet, but I think I need a different opponent. I think the problem is that he is still listed in the ECL 3 list. Thanks ahead of time :D
Erithmu 07-05-07, 04:58 PM	Just a question, but should I (Isaiah Shar ECL 3) be fighting (Inzin Dar'ath ECL 4)? Perhaps I have looked at the wrong sheet, but I think I need a different opponent. I think the problem is that he is still listed in the ECL 3 list. Thanks ahead of time :D Humor: Not really ... any of Waywreth's characters can't hit a planet with a meteor swarm, so you don't have much to worry about. (which is why Gaston doesn't use any attack roll spells) Serious: Probably not
Pitlords 07-05-07, 04:58 PM	Just a question, but should I (Isaiah Shar ECL 3) be fighting (Inzin Dar'ath ECL 4)? Perhaps I have looked at the wrong sheet, but I think I need a different opponent. I think the problem is that he is still listed in the ECL 3 list. Thanks ahead of time :D Looks like MWB missed that. Okay - you get an unknown monster - and Inzin gets added to the All vs All fight.
Macbrea 07-05-07, 05:00 PM	Since, Mine isn't going to change much... All tactics have been sent. :P Your waitin' on Templar10 for the other side of my fights......
TheMagister 07-05-07, 05:04 PM	Informational request sent backatcha.
waywreth 07-05-07, 05:07 PM	Humor: Not really ... any of Waywreth's characters can't hit a planet with a meteor swarm, so you don't have much to worry about. (which is why Gaston doesn't use any attack roll spells) Serious: Probably not I've found the less dice my characters have to roll, the better the odds of them not getting screwed by them. And hey - Inzin's attack bonus isn't bad...
Pitlords 07-05-07, 05:07 PM	Still need a volunteer for Kraegin vs Baelin (ECL10)... otherwise I have to give Zevox yet another fight... (that would put him up to 5)
templer10 07-05-07, 05:09 PM	Since, Mine isn't going to change much... All tactics have been sent. :P Your waitin' on Templar10 for the other side of my fights...... just saw the pairings - bloody sewer... p.s - you do know you need 20 to hit elrick right...
Sunwolf 07-05-07, 05:15 PM	Vandelar is an ECL 11 character in an all vs all with two ECL 10 characters (Leif,Ignatius). How is that going to work? Do the lower ECL characters get a suprise round or some such?
Salrantol 07-05-07, 05:23 PM	Why is Kilor Mintolo fighting in the arena? Her title line reads: Ready for July 4, 2007 [ECL 6] [Fight 1] MQ for cohort If she doesn't need to MQ for a cohort, I'm fine with fighting in the arena, but otherwise, I'd like to be MQing instead.
Erithmu 07-05-07, 05:24 PM	Gaston's Operative is up for quick checking/Tactics
Pitlords 07-05-07, 05:26 PM	Vandelar is an ECL 11 character in an all vs all with two ECL 10 characters (Leif,Ignatius). How is that going to work? Do the lower ECL characters get a suprise round or some such? Ah crap... Okay - just drop Vandelar from the fight. Leif vs Ignatius just a straight fight. Vandelar will just have to sit this week - since we're still short one pitlord. Why is Kilor Mintolo fighting in the arena? Her title line reads: Ready for July 4, 2007 [ECL 6] [Fight 1] MQ for cohort If she doesn't need to MQ for a cohort, I'm fine with fighting in the arena, but otherwise, I'd like to be MQing instead. Well - because I didn't see it - that's all. @Erithmu - you are listed as +1 Miniquest. Got time to pick up that one?
Pitlords 07-05-07, 05:28 PM	Kilor Mintolo (Salrantol) miniquests for a cohort : XXXXX Lightwolf Phoenixstar (Yitzi) vs. Mithos Durrol (Zevox) : MacBrea [City] Leif Goldeneye (Sunwolf) vs. Ignatius, Vicar of Bahamut (Erithmu) : TelinArtho [Arena] Kraegin (TelinArtho) vs. Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) : Zevox [Sewer]
Erithmu 07-05-07, 05:31 PM	Ah crap... Okay - just drop Vandelar from the fight. Leif vs Ignatius just a straight fight. Vandelar will just have to sit this week - since we're still short one pitlord. Well - because I didn't see it - that's all. @Erithmu - you are listed as +1 Miniquest. Got time to pick up that one? I really don't ... Sorry going to have to decline that ... I'm about to send off my notice of vacation here to Pitlords for the next couple of weeks.
Pitlords 07-05-07, 05:38 PM	Hence why I asked. @Salrantol - unless someone else offers to pick it up, I'll pick it up starting tomorrow. Don't have time to set it up for you right now though. As a corrolary to that - I will be switching off of Pitlords now. I probably won't have time for further updates for a few hours - but I'll see what I can do.
Macbrea 07-05-07, 05:43 PM	just saw the pairings - bloody sewer... p.s - you do know you need 20 to hit elrick right... Funny. i was thinking cool I only need two to kill this target, thats not bad.
TelinArtho 07-05-07, 05:53 PM	Isaiah's monster info is up. Rough draw but could be an interesting fight.
templer10 07-05-07, 06:18 PM	Funny. i was thinking cool I only need two to kill this target, thats not bad. And in that note tactics for elrick sent - why do i always get the crappy arena's... in the arena, plains or city this would be an autowin for me i imagined you went for grapple otherwise you really have to hit 20 twice in a row. p.s. - i DID notice that stone of energy adaptaion - but i tried anyway- got enough spells to burn.
Macbrea 07-05-07, 06:38 PM	I figured your going to the grapple.. :P
templer10 07-05-07, 06:48 PM	I figured your going to the grapple.. :P Why on earth would i want 2 when i have AC of 29... i can force you to go at least through 1 Ally - possibly 2 if iam lucky - you will need to hit twice with roll of 20 (At least) to win - if you didnt do energy adaptation to electiricity, sonic AND fire it wont last that long (unless you get REALLY lucky).
Macbrea 07-05-07, 06:57 PM	Did sonic, fire, electricity, acid and cold.. :P
Macbrea 07-05-07, 06:59 PM	Though, i was more curious on the Lady's fight over izumi's fight.
templer10 07-05-07, 07:07 PM	Did sonic, fire, electricity, acid and cold.. :P well i stll have animal companion, ally, dire wolf (augmanted) an SUBDUAL produce flame althrough by the time i get down to subdual i will probably end 1 way or another (and flame strike if things REALLY get bad) - elrick is a pretty tough cookie About lady Liara - can you use darkness spell to hide in? i wasnt sure (i sent tactics already) i figured if i cant see you - why let you see me either - so i did obscuring mist so you will more or less have to get close to me to hit me then true stike + weapon attacks combo - if that wont work then went to areas of the map you have to close to melee with ready on listen/spot order. but really lady liara really weasnt designed against sneaks so i dont have a lot of hope for that fight.
Macbrea 07-05-07, 07:15 PM	Yes, you can hide whenever you have concealment or cover.
templer10 07-05-07, 07:29 PM	Yes, you can hide whenever you have concealment or cover. You went for melee sneak attacks or ranged? since if melee iam okay more or less - ranged is more of a problem - but since obscuring mist stops you just as it stops me from spotting you will pretty much have to come to melee i think.
templer10 07-05-07, 07:36 PM	Lord lorian vs sybil tactics sent.
Macbrea 07-05-07, 07:40 PM	It should result in both of us getting dispelled. As I delayed and hid. If you did the same. Then we should start on round ten with a targeted dispel from an epic level wizard dispelling us both completely. :P
templer10 07-05-07, 08:12 PM	It should result in both of us getting dispelled. As I delayed and hid. If you did the same. Then we should start on round ten with a targeted dispel from an epic level wizard dispelling us both completely. :P Actually i wanted to find you - i just didnt expect to be able to... ever... so the obscuring mist is just if i CANT find you despite being shot at (i think). p.s. - a dispell wouldnt be a fair delay penalty since yorick can jus put up the darkness again - if it comes to that i imagine it will be a grid location for us both or some such. (still have the full concealment but can target a squere). anyway - ZEVOX - tactics for corruptor are sent - men is he going to have a bad day with that +3 to fort...
templer10 07-05-07, 08:19 PM	to the guys in the nightmare ECL 4 ffa - Ialgo (TelinArtho) vs. The shadow (Rauul) vs. Arbin Softfoot (Yitzi) vs Inzin Dar'ath (waywreth) : templer10 would appriciate tactics ASAP from those that didnt send yet since i want to work on it tommarow/saturday - and with 2 snaeaks - it's going to take a while... at least it's a small map. wish you could do a no sneaks request...
Vathelokai 07-05-07, 08:20 PM	Volunteersim: I can pick up the Kraegin/Baelin fight or the miniquest if no one else wants it.
TelinArtho 07-05-07, 08:32 PM	The miniquest is up for grabs. WIth all of the shuffling - Zevox ended up with one less fight - so I gave him the Kraegin vs Baelin fight. Thanks in advance for picking up the miniquest - I just think I have too much to do this week (in real life and here...), so it just takes something off of my plate.
hogarth 07-05-07, 08:40 PM	@Yitzi,Telin: tactics received for Daren; just waiting on Vallgar.
MindWandererB 07-05-07, 09:32 PM	Telin also apparently forgot to list/assign Aerryl's miniquest, so that's another one in need of a QL. I'm not picky.
NiQil 07-05-07, 09:42 PM	Telin also apparently forgot to list/assign Aerryl's miniquest, so that's another one in need of a QL. I'm not picky. I'm sure he just thought that you being the head cheese, you could run your own miniquest. :P Though, if you somehow manage to lose, I would call for an investigation....
NiQil 07-05-07, 10:18 PM	@ stimpydoda: Tactics for Sabretooth sent via PM @ Sjiggie: Tactics for Tiris Rush sent via PM
Malither76 07-05-07, 10:20 PM	Kraegin/Baelin, Baelin leveled last week he is now ECL 11
Zevox 07-05-07, 10:35 PM	Kraegin (TelinArtho) vs. Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) : Zevox [Sewer] Problem: Baelin leveled up last week. Hes now ECL 11, and so cannot fight Kraegin (fairly). Solution: Baelin vs Vandelar as an ECL 11 fight, Kraegin gets either a monster match or one of the ECL 10 fights becomes an FFA. I could run one or both. My weekend is clear through Tuesday. Also, minor error with my credits, you forgot I get +1 admin for being Guildlords. Atemu (Korone) vs. Kathren Durrol (Zevox) : MitzaVolchenko [City] Spell Focus (Enchantment) Wizard vs Fighter with will +1. Well, I can see where this is going. Lightwolf Phoenixstar (Yitzi) vs. Mithos Durrol (Zevox) : MacBrea [City] Wow, battle of the opposites. Chaotic Good Elf Fighter/Sorcerer with an emphasis on Fighter vs Lawful Evil Human Blackguard/Sorcerer with an emphasis on Sorcerer. Only things that could make them more opposite is if Mithos were a Dwarf or Orc or Lightwolf were a Paladin. Could actually make an interesting story there. Zevox
Sjiggie 07-05-07, 10:40 PM	Telin also apparently forgot to list/assign Aerryl's miniquest, so that's another one in need of a QL. I'm not picky. I can pick this one up.
stimpydoda 07-05-07, 11:20 PM	@Niqil Tactics for Sabretooth recieved. @Telin Tactics for Lycidas sent.
xZerasx 07-05-07, 11:32 PM	TelinArtho - Tactics sent. I really hope that this whole flying thing isn't going to destroy me in this battle. And if it gets 2500 gp to spend... At least I get to learn something from it :D .
MindWandererB 07-05-07, 11:53 PM	Aerryl Nalladar (MindWandererB) miniquests for an elite rhinoceros and a dire wolf : Sjiggie [Miniquest] Kraegin (TelinArtho) vs. Unknown Monster : Zevox [Sewer] Vandelar the Red (SoulLord) vs. Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) : Zevox [Temple] Did I miss anything?
stimpydoda 07-05-07, 11:53 PM	@Sjiggie Tactics recieved for Xanavar.
Vathelokai 07-06-07, 12:05 AM	Aerryl Nalladar (MindWandererB) miniquests for an elite rhinoceros and a dire wolf : Sjiggie [Miniquest] Kraegin (TelinArtho) vs. Unknown Monster : Zevox [Sewer] Vandelar the Red (SoulLord) vs. Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) : Zevox [Temple] Did I miss anything? Kilor Mintolo (Salrantol) miniquests for a cohort : XXXXX I'm picking this one up. Also, I believe Telin forgot my scribelord credit on the credits post.
MindWandererB 07-06-07, 12:11 AM	Kilor Mintolo (Salrantol) miniquests for a cohort : XXXXX I'm picking this one up. Also, I believe Telin forgot my scribelord credit on the credits post. Got it. Here's what I have for credits, with the corrections I spotted: Erithmu F1 Q4 Macbrea F1 MitzaVolchenko C3 Q-1 C-1 F2 Salrantol F1 Sjiggie F3 stimpydoda F2 TelinArtho Q1 C-4 F3 G1 A1 templer10 A-2 F3 TheMagister Q-1 F2 G1 Yitzi C-2 F2 Zevox C-1 F5 G1 A1 hogarth F1 Malither76 Q2 Q-1 MindWandererB A-1 G1 A1 NiQil A1 SauroGrenom C3 Q-1 G1 A1 Vathelokai Q-1 F1 G1 A1
Rauul 07-06-07, 12:24 AM	@templer10 Tactics for Shadow in the FFA Cavern of Death
TelinArtho 07-06-07, 12:25 AM	Sorry about all the errors guys... I think I truly did a better job my first time... @all my pitlords - tactics will be sent tomorrow morning my time. With all of the work of the pairings - I didn't have my usual time to write the tactics too. Expect them around 10am (assuming Kraegin's monster info is posted by then) - Eastern US time.
Zevox 07-06-07, 12:37 AM	And speaking of that, Kraegin's Monster Info. I originally rolled 4 Hobgoblin Werewolf Fighters, but I figured it would be permissible to reroll that given the sewer map and summoner foe (could get really crowded in there...). Yeah, I know there are just as many of these, but at least they aren't stuck in those thin corridors. And they're easier to stat up. Zevox
stimpydoda 07-06-07, 12:37 AM	@amalcon Tactics for Jevian recieved, but please take note of my reply.
MindWandererB 07-06-07, 12:38 AM	Sorry about all the errors guys... I think I truly did a better job my first time...I think more than half the errors were mine, anyway, in missing level-ups. Don't worry about it.
Airwhale 07-06-07, 12:49 AM	If you still need a pitloard, I can do it, as long as another pitloard can look over my fight after I'm done and okay it =)
Rauul 07-06-07, 01:10 AM	@Zevox tactics for corrupter vs Deadshot is up.. i have a decent feeling about this fight... @ everyone.. i will be offline for a few days, as i am headed to NY and then to the VA hospital for a Surgery.. So however they are run they are run no complaints from me.. (if someone else finds mistakes please be nice to them )
Erithmu 07-06-07, 01:24 AM	@Telin: Tactics for Iggy sent.
NiQil 07-06-07, 01:37 AM	@ stimpydoda: Be aware that when you post a fight, you must copy and paste the entire sheet of each character into your fight post. Linking to their character sheets is not allowed. You may intend to change it later, since you haven't posted tactics or anything, but I figured I should mention it now so you don't forget later.
stimpydoda 07-06-07, 01:52 AM	Ah, alrighty, consider it taken care of.
Sjiggie 07-06-07, 08:36 AM	@ Hogarth & MindwandererB both MQ are up feel free to post a rp entry if not I will continue with it tommorow
Sjiggie 07-06-07, 10:13 AM	I feel bad about saying this since I keep asking for it but we still have to resolve the fight Gradak vs Psyker We have a bit of an interesting situation on our hands. Gradak Tumblebelly (Sjiggie) vs. Psyker Elfbane (Khaim) : UserNamer [Arena] [Fight]Usernamer has informed me that despite the fact that he posted results, there are mistakes that he made that needed to be corrected. Now, the fight was not held over, because I had no idea that the pitlord considered it incomplete. However, neither PC has been in the arena since, so an edit is still possible. However, UserNamer isn't going to do it. Would someone else be willing to look over the fight and the concerns, and see if it can be resolved? I know this isn't really fair to Khaim, since the fight was marked as completed, but we do have a precedent of edits under these circumstances.
TelinArtho 07-06-07, 10:23 AM	And speaking of that, Kraegin's Monster Info. I originally rolled 4 Hobgoblin Werewolf Fighters, but I figured it would be permissible to reroll that given the sewer map and summoner foe (could get really crowded in there...). Yeah, I know there are just as many of these, but at least they aren't stuck in those thin corridors. And they're easier to stat up. Zevox Sorry to raise a fuss about this - but I feel like you rerolled a perfectly fine fight. Anyway - tactics will be away soon.
Korone 07-06-07, 12:32 PM	Crap, forgot to edit the title line for Yakov, I wanted him to be active this week... guess he'll take a calm weeks of beer and forgery. Aye.
SoulLord 07-06-07, 12:39 PM	I just noticed something most of the maps are hosted under caterane site. so can anyone mirror host them just in case?
TelinArtho 07-06-07, 12:42 PM	Isaiah Shar (xZerasx) vs Wyrmling Black Dragon (Unknown Monster) is up.
MindWandererB 07-06-07, 12:44 PM	I just noticed something most of the maps are hosted under caterane site. so can anyone mirror host them just in case? I have them saved locally, so I can put them up on Photobucket if necessary. Dracazar's copies in the mapper are also stored locally on his machine.
Airwhale 07-06-07, 01:31 PM	Why didn't Darfu Spell-Axe get paired? Is it becuse of his prison violations?
TelinArtho 07-06-07, 01:39 PM	Why didn't Darfu Spell-Axe get paired? Is it becuse of his prison violations? Nope. The title line is everything to the pairings. If you don't have your title line set correctly, the person doing the pairings can't see if you are ready or not. In your case, the title line is set at: "Darfu Spell-axe" What should be there is what is on the first line of your character sheet: Ready for July (4th) [Fight 1] - (Free Activity) Craft Woodworking:63gp This is a common mistake, but unfortunately it happens. If you can wait to be paired until next week, just edit your sheet with the updated title line (ready July 11th). If not, you can PM MindWandererB and see if he can find a pitlord to run a monster fight for you. Not the most ideal situation - and there's no guarantees he'll be able to find a pitlord - but it would be something.
TheMagister 07-06-07, 01:39 PM	Oh, I see the problem: It's your title line. It should read, "ECL 3: Ready for July (4th) [Fight 1] - (Free Activity) Craft Woodworking:63gp" instead of "Darfu Spell-Axe". The pairings-maker (a spider program) looks only at the title lines, not at the sheets.
Zevox 07-06-07, 01:41 PM	@ Mitza - Tactics for Kathren Durrol (vs Atemu) have been PMed. Should be a fairly simple fight. Zevox
SoulLord 07-06-07, 01:54 PM	Tactics for Vandelar the red vs Baelin the shadow have been sent.
Zevox 07-06-07, 03:08 PM	@ Macbrea - Tactics for Mithos Durrol (vs Lightwolf Phoenixstar) have been PMed. I'll be interested to see if he can come up with anything that can effectively counter those. Zevox
Airwhale 07-06-07, 03:26 PM	Ahh. Oops! Thanks TelinArtho. I'll just wait till next week, then.
TelinArtho 07-06-07, 03:30 PM	Severin Dimblade (Adolpho Mondschein) vs Lycidas Arcades (stimpydoda) is up.
Korone 07-06-07, 03:54 PM	Ahh. Oops! Thanks TelinArtho. I'll just wait till next week, then. Unless you want to fight Yakov ? An orc vs. orc fight might be interesting. I managed to make the same error... That is, if any pitlords want to take on it.
Salrantol 07-06-07, 04:50 PM	@MindWandererB: Kervan's monster info is up. @stimpydoda: I happened to peek at Esme's fight, and I have to ask--double moving while threatened but not withdrawing??? Also, you didn't have Xanaver make a save vs. Entangle again in round 4.
stimpydoda 07-06-07, 04:51 PM	Severin Dimblade (Adolpho Mondschein) vs Lycidas Arcades (stimpydoda) is up. Electricity Rays don't take a - to damage. Severin would have dropped in round 6. (This basically saves me my crossbow bolts) Everything else looks fine, thanks!
stimpydoda 07-06-07, 05:03 PM	@MindWandererB: Kervan's monster info is up. @stimpydoda: I happened to peek at Esme's fight, and I have to ask--double moving while threatened but not withdrawing??? Also, you didn't have Xanaver make a save vs. Entangle again in round 4. Xanaver Valassar (Sjiggie) vs. Esme Baraksdottir (Salrantol) : ECL:3 (Arena) is up. You can only withdraw in a straight line. If you would have done so, he could have just charged right at you. The double move was a bit risky(he JUST hit your ac), but it would have put distance and a barrier in between you two. Good catch on round 5. I did the ref. save, and he passed (:( sorry)
Sunwolf 07-06-07, 05:03 PM	@Telin Tactics for Leif sent by PM
Zevox 07-06-07, 05:18 PM	You can only withdraw in a straight line. Um, where do you get that from? Withdraw Withdrawing from melee combat is a full-round action. When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square. (Invisible enemies still get attacks of opportunity against you, and you can’t withdraw from combat if you’re blinded.) You can’t take a 5-foot step during the same round in which you withdraw. If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal. You may not withdraw using a form of movement for which you don’t have a listed speed. Note that despite the name of this action, you don’t actually have to leave combat entirely. Restricted Withdraw: If you are limited to taking only a standard action each round you can withdraw as a standard action. In this case, you may move up to your speed (rather than up to double your speed). Theres nothing in there about such a restriction. Are you sure you're not thinking of running? Zevox
TelinArtho 07-06-07, 05:20 PM	Electricity Rays don't take a - to damage. Severin would have dropped in round 6. (This basically saves me my crossbow bolts) Everything else looks fine, thanks! Well - electricity rays don't take a minus to damage - but your opponent had Resistance Electricity 5.
stimpydoda 07-06-07, 05:31 PM	My bad about withrawing. I'll continue the fight and get back to you.
MindWandererB 07-06-07, 05:40 PM	@MindWandererB: Kervan's monster info is up. And tactics are sent. Kervan will either get a chance to be a total badass for once in his life, or he will remain a pathetic loser. There is no middle ground.
stimpydoda 07-06-07, 06:39 PM	Alrighty, Xanaver Valassar (Sjiggie) vs. Esme Baraksdottir (Salrantol) : ECL:3 (Arena) is updated.
Zevox 07-06-07, 08:24 PM	Vandelar the Red vs Baelin the Shadow, or as I like to call it: "Who is the better sneak - the Wizard or the Assassin?" The answer may surprise you (or it might not). Zevox
templer10 07-06-07, 09:59 PM	the ECL 4 FFA nightmare is done and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12985987&postcount=1062) - Just letting you all know - unless there is a MAJOR mistake i wont be editing it since i already spent 3 times as much as i usualy do on this fight (around 7 -8 hours) - and the decision about how i handled the stalemate with the obscuring mist wont be changed. if someone could do arrow count i would thank him - so very tired now. p.s- if anyone has any complains about why i didnt improvise how you like once tactics (for everyone essentialy) broke down - well - i Won't win the fight for you so usually what i improvise will be the third or so best option for you to do. p.s.s- i hope to god i dont get 2 sneaks in 1 fight any time soon again - it's so frustrating - and the new move silently rule just adds to what is already an annoying fight to pitlord.
stimpydoda 07-06-07, 10:05 PM	Jevian Rond (amalcon) vs. Sabretooth (NiQil) : stimpydoda [Arena] is done and up. Let me know if anything is wrong.
stimpydoda 07-06-07, 10:15 PM	I count: Inzin: 10 bullets Shadow: 12 arrows Arbin: 1 arrow
Salrantol 07-06-07, 11:29 PM	Kervan Sheharath's magic club vs. 3 phthisics is up! Raise your hand if you expected a character with +13 to Will to be attacked with Ego Whip--successfully....
Malither76 07-07-07, 12:31 AM	yeah I didn't expect to win, would have been interesting if I went with the deeper darkness, yeah Hide in plain sight will be great just 2 more levels.
MitzaVolchenko 07-07-07, 01:30 AM	@templer10 & TM tactics for Sybil and Zwei sent.
amalcon 07-07-07, 01:44 AM	@Stimpydoda: Re. Jevian Rond vs. Sabretooth, I only notice one problem: You seem to have forgotten the distance penalty to spot (-1 per 10'). In round 3, Jevian is spotted by Sabretooth on natural rolls of 6 and 10, but they must be at least 115' away (because the longbow shot took a -2). After the penalty, Sabretooth's spot check could not have been more than 2. It may not matter, but then, it may. The real killer there was that *I* forgot Expeditious Retreat (otherwise I'd go with straight sneak tactics).
Zevox 07-07-07, 02:06 AM	Kervan Sheharath's magic club vs. 3 phthisics is up! Raise your hand if you expected a character with +13 to Will to be attacked with Ego Whip--successfully.... When that character also has a charisma of only 10? Sure, I can believe it. yeah I didn't expect to win, would have been interesting if I went with the deeper darkness, yeah Hide in plain sight will be great just 2 more levels. Deeper Darkness wouldn't have made a difference, actually. Continual Flame is a 3rd level Cleric spell, and given that the Hound Archon's SLAs are almost all exclusively cleric spells and its a divine creature itself I'd say its a safe assumption that it should be treated as the Cleric version for light vs darkness effects. But yeah, HiPS plus that ring should make you pretty deadly when you have it. Just remember that darkness does prevent you from sneak attacking foes, since it gives them concealment. Zevox
stimpydoda 07-07-07, 02:45 AM	@Stimpydoda: Re. Jevian Rond vs. Sabretooth, I only notice one problem: You seem to have forgotten the distance penalty to spot (-1 per 10'). In round 3, Jevian is spotted by Sabretooth on natural rolls of 6 and 10, but they must be at least 115' away (because the longbow shot took a -2). After the penalty, Sabretooth's spot check could not have been more than 2. It may not matter, but then, it may. The real killer there was that *I* forgot Expeditious Retreat (otherwise I'd go with straight sneak tactics). You are right about the spot check and distance. Sorry that I didn't catch that. Your hide check would have been 21 basically, so he wouldn't have spotted you. However, he can still tell the general direction from which the arrow came, so still moves about the same, and doesn't really change much.
MindWandererB 07-07-07, 03:51 AM	When that character also has a charisma of only 10? Sure, I can believe it.Yeah, and in retrospect, I should have caught that myself. They had 9 Ego Whips between them, and needed to get 2 damage on only one. Chalk up another loss to carelessness on my part--and likely Kervan's next two fights as well, since I tossed away some heavy spells on that one. <sigh>
TheMagister 07-07-07, 07:06 AM	You are right about the spot check and distance. Sorry that I didn't catch that. Your hide check would have been 21 basically, so he wouldn't have spotted you. However, he can still tell the general direction from which the arrow came, so still moves about the same, and doesn't really change much. I have to say (being someone that hates facing sneaks but loves playing them {what?}), that a character doesn't know "generally from which direction the attack came" when he's sniped. He's completely clueless unless he makes his spot check (OR a successful listen check! See the Courtroom for the latest elder-ratified houserule on listen checks to hear attacks!). Also, about the expeditious retreat on a dwarf in full plate: The dwarf's speed is increased from 20' to 50' by the spell, and then his armor hampers him by 1/3 to (50*.75=37.5 rounded down) 35'). So Sabre only runs 35' * 3(heavy armor) = 105'. That may make a heckuva big difference. Nevermind on that. DWARF. Hello, TM... TM
hogarth 07-07-07, 09:58 AM	Deeper Darkness wouldn't have made a difference, actually. Continual Flame is a 3rd level Cleric spell, and given that the Hound Archon's SLAs are almost all exclusively cleric spells and its a divine creature itself I'd say its a safe assumption that it should be treated as the Cleric version for light vs darkness effects. You know what happens when you presume: it makes a "pres" out of "u" and "me". Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster’s spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order.
TheMagister 07-07-07, 10:46 AM	{looks at Zevox -- shakes head} {derisively} What a pres... :D TM
TheMagister 07-07-07, 02:58 PM	Izumi vs. Elrick Flamebrother is complete. It ended in a way rather different than most would expect from the little artillery platform and the little tank. TM
templer10 07-07-07, 04:34 PM	Izumi vs. Elrick Flamebrother is complete. It ended in a way rather different than most would expect from the little artillery platform and the little tank. TM thanks for the run - the sewer was just MADE for summons.
Zevox 07-07-07, 08:02 PM	Longshot vs The Corruptor is up. Zevox
Macbrea 07-07-07, 08:45 PM	Izumi vs. Elrick Flamebrother is complete. It ended in a way rather different than most would expect from the little artillery platform and the little tank. TM Ended pretty much how I expected. :P She isn't that powerful a character. She just has the ability to be a spoiler sometimes. Anyways, 800xp puts her in ECL 9.
Yitzi 07-07-07, 10:35 PM	templer10, the answer to your question is that while hide+touch is effective, sneak attack means that even a cantrip can do the job pretty well (especially as I further increase my rogue level), and I would rather save the slots for ghoul touch/glitterdust/invisibility/blindness/deafness. Also, Arbin gets 800 GP/XP, not 600 (and I am marking it as such)-400X2=800.
TheMagister 07-07-07, 11:21 PM	Ended pretty much how I expected. :P She isn't that powerful a character. She just has the ability to be a spoiler sometimes. Anyways, 800xp puts her in ECL 9. I didn't expect the dire wolf to eat Izumi's lunch that fast. I did expect him to wear through nearly all of his spells trying to damage you, and then finally win thru subdual damage. I expected Roar to die quick, and then for Speedy, and then you to have a fighting chance vs. Elrick. I figured it'd be a VERY costly win for him.
templer10 07-08-07, 04:41 AM	I didn't expect the dire wolf to eat Izumi's lunch that fast. I did expect him to wear through nearly all of his spells trying to damage you, and then finally win thru subdual damage. I expected Roar to die quick, and then for Speedy, and then you to have a fighting chance vs. Elrick. I figured it'd be a VERY costly win for him. heu an augmanted dire wolf has +13 to hit- that's nothing to sneeze at (+15 when flankin) and if trips you.... also - it has decet HP for it's CR and even with it's crappy AC it take a few hits to kill it. now when i have the completly broken spell - animal growth at level 9 which works on every animal i care to bring (4 at that level) in any decent sized map..... OUCH.
templer10 07-08-07, 06:45 AM	Longshot vs The Corruptor is up. Zevox thanks - can you edit in political career of 21%. ty.
TheMagister 07-08-07, 07:26 AM	heu an augmanted dire wolf has +13 to hit- that's nothing to sneeze at (+15 when flankin) and if trips you.... also - it has decet HP for it's CR and even with it's crappy AC it take a few hits to kill it. now when i have the completly broken spell - animal growth at level 9 which works on every animal i care to bring (4 at that level) in any decent sized map..... OUCH. I knew that it could hit -- but if I take a character into a fight and I need a 13+ to hit them and they need a 6 to hit me, I try to think of ways to even those odds. The sad fact is that the wolf rolled damned well and Izumi rolled damned poorly. Odds were that the dire wolf would miss twice and Izumi would obliterate it in two rounds. Same thing for Lion. Then the horse. Then Elrick. I actually had Izumi at a 40%/60% odds of winning that fight.
MitzaVolchenko 07-08-07, 09:21 AM	Longshot vs The Corruptor is up. Zevox Um, Rauul isn't around to do so, so I'll point this out for him...his tactics state fly toward the tunnel his foe has to use indicating an ambush and a dispel on sight which would indicate meaningfully engage with undead then wait on him to come out and dispel him on readied action...this does not say fly down into a Longshot's touchsight and get blasted. That was a disappointingly wooden run for a 22INT charachter who did in fact mention a counter to the buff that killed him.
TheMagister 07-08-07, 09:32 AM	{PM conversation} hey i saw you stated teh fight and for some odd reason the gryphon chose to grapple me? i wonder why (if that's what it did) - since sybil didnt ask for it in tactics and it's rake attacks are from a charge (not from grapple) so it's not standrat method of attack for a fairly stupid creature (int 5). p.s - i wonder what's the point of summon monster wand CL1 since they last just 1 round if she's close enough to me to do it- she's in trouble... She's (MitzaVolchenko) is all dizzied up on chemotherapy, so I'm taking some few liberties with her tactics. If you look at her default tactics on her sheet, she requests that a pitlord play her character according to her intelligence and wisdom -- I'm taking that to heart. Grappling Lorian is a no-brainer. The only thing I'm NOT doing is changing the griffon's targets: it'd be a damned good idea for the griffon to kill super speedy and leave Lorian on foot. Sybil could then run-n-gun or hide-n-snipe pretty effectively. I'll make no excuses -- I'm giving her a little extra grease on her tactics because she's so screwed up on prescription drugs. iam sorry to say but you are wrong there - and i know since i have her tactics against you (rubi) - YOU in my opinion going way way out of what a pitlord is suppsed to do and if in fact doing grapple vs lorian is such a "no brainer" she should have thought about it. Very well. If you're dead set on contesting it, I will not have the Griffon make grapple attempts. "Seek and Destroy" was the command, and so I am left with the description of a griffon in the MMI to go on. "They almost always attack horses, however, and any who attempt to protect horses from a hungry griffon often end up on the menu themselves." So Waste goes after its natural food first, and Lorian second. I'll re-order the current 1d20 rolls to reflect each attack as it would've come up (the thematic concept makes no sense, as this griffon will never be grappling). I'll post this entire conversation in the FotW thread so that we can have other opinions on the matter. TM
templer10 07-08-07, 09:46 AM	I dont object to going after the horse - in fact i wouldnt have contested doing grapple either - if mitza would have mentioned it in her tactics (since creatures cerated by figurenes of wonderous whatucallit understand common) but she didnt mention to it and that's what i objected 2 - it really isnt personal - themagister/mitza.
Zevox 07-08-07, 11:30 AM	thanks - can you edit in political career of 21%. ty. Done. Um, Rauul isn't around to do so, so I'll point this out for him...his tactics state fly toward the tunnel his foe has to use indicating an ambush and a dispel on sight which would indicate meaningfully engage with undead then wait on him to come out and dispel him on readied action...this does not say fly down into a Longshot's touchsight and get blasted. That was a disappointingly wooden run for a 22INT charachter who did in fact mention a counter to the buff that killed him. Nothing in Rauul's tactics indicates he wishes to engage by waiting for his foe and ambushing him with readied actions at all, Mitza. If thats what he wanted to do, he should have said something to that effect in his tactics, because I don't deviate from tactics with improvisations unless I feel its clear that it is necessary. Edit: Plus, in any event, even if he had, theres almost no place in the sewers where you can spot a foe from and be out of range of touchsight, so it wouldn't help. As for the intelligence of the character, please note my pitlord profile for my opinion on that. Further on improvising: your character's intelligence and wisdom scores have no bearing on what I improv them to do. Do not assume that your "wise old Druid" or "highly intelligent Wizard" is going to improvise any better than an Int 6 Wis 6 Orc Barbarian, because it won't happen (this isn't to say I will always improv poorly, but that I will improv with all characters equally). This would all be well and good for roleplaying, but I need to maintain impartiality in this regard when it comes to arena fights. Zevox
TheMagister 07-08-07, 02:39 PM	The Sybil vs. Lorian setup and fight posts are up. {sigh} Do your worst, templer10. I'm ready. Not willing, but ready. TM
templer10 07-08-07, 02:45 PM	The Sybil vs. Lorian setup and fight posts are up. {sigh} Do your worst, templer10. I'm ready. Not willing, but ready. TM give me a sec and i will.
templer10 07-08-07, 02:57 PM	The Sybil vs. Lorian setup and fight posts are up. {sigh} Do your worst, templer10. I'm ready. Not willing, but ready. TM Like you said iam more then a little ticked off - since in my opinion in this fight - you wrote tactics for sybiil not mitza- but that's besides the point - you forgot a couple of things: in my contingencies look at number 1 - NUMERO ONE- REFRESH VIGOR FROM DORJA (a ML2 - aug) - that means i can most definently outlast her arrows so you possibly got couple dozen more rounds and then she has t come to melee (and die) - couple more things - i did mentiont to move to maintain range of dorjas - you can give me the same latitude you gave sybil and double move me to get into range. ill go look at some more now. p.s- you do remmebr i did ask to use longbow if i cant get into dorja range right? - contingency 11.
Salrantol 07-08-07, 02:59 PM	The Sybil vs. Lorian setup and fight posts are up. {sigh}I saw two problems--1) Round 8, you say that Lorian doesn't have LoE to "see" Sybil, but the map shows that he does (she has cover, but he has LoE; check his bottom left corner to hers--unobstructed). 2) You have Synesthete running out in round 17, rather than round 107. Synesthete is a 10 min./level power.
Salrantol 07-08-07, 03:01 PM	...DORJA...dorjas...dorja...What's a dorja? Is that like a dorje? :P
templer10 07-08-07, 03:05 PM	I saw two problems--1) Round 8, you say that Lorian doesn't have LoE to "see" Sybil, but the map shows that he does (she has cover, but he has LoE; check his bottom left corner to hers--unobstructed). 2) You have Synesthete running out in round 17, rather than round 107. Synesthete is a 10 min./level power. WOOt i just noticed - have fun rolling all those attack rolls for my lonbow then from round 50ish or so (when she start shooting arrows) - essentially she cant win without that gryphon. p.s. - now i remmber why i dont usually carry more then 1 of those stones.
templer10 07-08-07, 03:06 PM	What's a dorja? Is that like a dorje? :P yes - english as a second languge + forth set of tactics in the same day + 3 am when writing said tactics...
TheMagister 07-08-07, 03:13 PM	Like you said iam more then a little ticked off - since in my opinion in this fight - you wrote tactics for sybiil not mitza- but that's besides the point - you forgot a couple of things: in my contingencies look at number 1 - NUMERO ONE- REFRESH VIGOR FROM DORJA (a ML2 - aug) - that means i can most definently outlast her arrows so you possibly got couple dozen more rounds and then she has t come to melee (and die) - couple more things - i did mentiont to move to maintain range of dorjas - you can give me the same latitude you gave sybil and double move me to get into range. ill go look at some more now. p.s- you do remmebr i did ask to use longbow if i cant get into dorja range right? - 1) the dorje of vigor - I totally missed that. Sybil's dead. 2) the range of the dorjes = the range of your touchsight. In all that time, even if you double move and catch sight of Sybil, she could still outrun you the next round. 3) the longbow - wouldn't help since you can't see anything to shoot at. As long as you have that dorje of vigor, though, Sybil can't win -- she'll never EVER do enough damage. With the rolls as they will stand, she can never outpace the dorje. After all that work, I'll just have her surrender when she runs out of normal arrows.
MindWandererB 07-08-07, 03:14 PM	@ templer10 - Can't share powers from dorjes. Unlike scrolls/stones, wands/dorjes are not treated the same as if you had cast/manifested the spell/power yourself, and so cannot be shared. You and your animal companion can share a spell even if the spell normally does not affect animals. The shared spell does not have to be a divine spell; you can share any spell you cast yourself with your animal companion. You cannot share spell-like abilities or supernatural abilities, even if you can target them on yourself. You and your animal companion can share effects from magic items only if the effect is a spell that you can target on yourself. For example, you and your animal companion can share a barkskin spell cast from a wand, but cannot share the armor bonus from bracers of armor.FYI.
TheMagister 07-08-07, 03:17 PM	I saw two problems--1) Round 8, you say that Lorian doesn't have LoE to "see" Sybil, but the map shows that he does (she has cover, but he has LoE; check his bottom left corner to hers--unobstructed). 2) You have Synesthete running out in round 17, rather than round 107. Synesthete is a 10 min./level power. Then the map is wrong. I was supposed to have her 5' step north b/c she didn't need LoE for the summons to find him, so why reveal herself at all? The Synesthete: See, and that's another thing in Lorian's favor that I screwed up. Lorian still has 6pp at that point, and can burn Sybil with a 6pp energy missile on sight followed by longbow return fire. Sybil's toast way back in round twenty-something, I'd imagine. {sigh} Hours wasted. I'll get on it. TM
Zevox 07-08-07, 03:24 PM	FYI. Wait, so Skip ruled once that you couldn't even share spells from scrolls with familiars, but then that you could from wands with animal companions? :uh-huh: ...so, any chance my previous suggestion that we cease using those articles is still under consideration? I'm really getting sick of his nonsense that apparently isn't even internally consistent... Zevox
templer10 07-08-07, 03:29 PM	Wait, so Skip ruled once that you couldn't even share spells from scrolls with familiars, but then that you could from wands with animal companions? :uh-huh: ...so, any chance my previous suggestion that we cease using those articles is still under consideration? I'm really getting sick of his nonsense that apparently isn't even internally consistent... Zevox Hey l like skip (kidding) at least when he agrees what what i think - i think the reason behind dorjas/scrolls/powerstone counting for psicrystals/familiars is that they cant be casted by someone without that spell on the list (so they are already psions, wizards etc) and with potion/tattoe anyone can use it.
templer10 07-08-07, 03:30 PM	Then the map is wrong. I was supposed to have her 5' step north b/c she didn't need LoE for the summons to find him, so why reveal herself at all? The Synesthete: See, and that's another thing in Lorian's favor that I screwed up. Lorian still has 6pp at that point, and can burn Sybil with a 6pp energy missile on sight followed by longbow return fire. Sybil's toast way back in round twenty-something, I'd imagine. {sigh} Hours wasted. I'll get on it. TM well at least sybil get all her SM1 charges back
TheMagister 07-08-07, 03:43 PM	well at least sybil get all her SM1 charges back No, she doesn't. Sybil doesn't have to establish LOE to Lorian in order for SMIs to attack Lorian, she just can place them over the roof of the house ya'll are running circles around for 20 rounds. Indirect fire means that Lorian never catches sight of her while she's moving and he's readying. I think I've got it fixed here. Result changed. It took all of four bowshots from Lorian.
templer10 07-08-07, 03:46 PM	No, she doesn't. Sybil doesn't have to establish LOE to Lorian in order for SMIs to attack Lorian, she just can place them over the roof of the house ya'll are running circles around for 20 rounds. Indirect fire means that Lorian never catches sight of her while she's moving and he's readying. I think I've got it fixed here. Result changed. It took all of four bowshots from Lorian. Looks fine - now - question - can you deflect arrows if the otehr guy is hiding? p.s. - preotection from evil when zwei is nuetral? :confused:
Zevox 07-08-07, 03:55 PM	Looks fine - now - question - can you deflect arrows if the otehr guy is hiding? Not if they're hiding successfully. Deflect arrows carries the prerequisite of being aware of the attack to deflect it, which you're not if your foe is hidden when they make it. Zevox
TheMagister 07-08-07, 03:56 PM	Looks fine - now - question - can you deflect arrows if the otehr guy is hiding? You can only deflect arrows if you are aware of the attack. If the attacker is hidden before the attack, then the defender cannot deflect the incoming arrow. Now, the attacker has to re-hide (and takes the -20 sniping penalty to the hide check), and the defender gets both a reactive spot and a reactive listen that may help him locate the attacker. That a good explanation?
TheMagister 07-08-07, 03:57 PM	Looks fine - now - question - can you deflect arrows if the otehr guy is hiding? p.s. - preotection from evil when zwei is nuetral? :confused: She is? I thought she was evil?! If she's lawful neutral, then dispense with the PfE...it's only there for deflection to AC.
Zevox 07-08-07, 04:00 PM	She is? I thought she was evil?! If she's lawful neutral, then dispense with the PfE...it's only there for deflection to AC. Yup, shes neutral. The only non-evil member of the EHTC at this point, actually, and one of only two in our history (Anixx was the other - CN). Zevox
Zevox 07-08-07, 04:15 PM	Darrgon the Summoner vs Dunerunner is up. More or less decided by a single save. Zevox
Erithmu 07-08-07, 04:31 PM	Gaston vs the Freedom Fighter Operative = Here
templer10 07-08-07, 04:35 PM	Kind of a problem with the Rubi VS zwei - she has darkness on her (which moves with her) which means Rubi generaly DONT know where she is - so your best move is invisibility But since Zwei is much better at listen and rubi is VERY noisy (especialy when he needs to double move/run) to catch up to zwei - she can hear him and get away - so iam stuck in stalemate - and you can never get to melee range (p.s. - skate dont stack with monk speed bonus) so it's her 50 with order to run to avoid melee vs your 45 (dobule move/run) to catch up - best option for you at the moment is take a potsot while invisible and hope to do some dmg then take out bow and hope to both spot her and hit her. thats what ill do unless iam missing something? p.s - i hate sneak battles....
TheMagister 07-08-07, 04:40 PM	Keep trying to base her. Rubi doesn't stop threatening the area around him just because he runs. When Zwei shoots from the darkness, she gets autospotted unless she also has cover. (You can't use concealment to START a hide, you can only use it to MAINTAIN a hide). It shouldn't be too impossible for Rubi to base Zwei in a round in which she fires her bow and gets spotted...
templer10 07-08-07, 04:48 PM	Keep trying to base her. Rubi doesn't stop threatening the area around him just because he runs. When Zwei shoots from the darkness, she gets autospotted unless she also has cover. (You can't use concealment to START a hide, you can only use it to MAINTAIN a hide). It shouldn't be too impossible for Rubi to base Zwei in a round in which she fires her bow and gets spotted... errr - no- From the SRD: "You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check" - darkness = concealment = she can hide any time she wants.
TheMagister 07-08-07, 05:21 PM	errr - no- From the SRD: "You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check" - darkness = concealment = she can hide any time she wants. Keep reading. "If people are observing you, even casually, you can't hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you're out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went." Once Rubi spots her, she has to "get out of sight" before she can hide again. So, she has the concealment, but she doesn't meet the "are you being observed? Yes/No" stipulation.
templer10 07-08-07, 05:30 PM	Keep reading. "If people are observing you, even casually, you can't hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you're out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went." Once Rubi spots her, she has to "get out of sight" before she can hide again. So, she has the concealment, but she doesn't meet the "are you being observed? Yes/No" stipulation. so she needs cover? You are still "observed" in cover but there is no argument that you can hide when behind cover - in what way is it diffrent then concealment - seems a bit stupid 2 me - anyway - ill contineu this tommarow (i hope) getting up early - i have to go take away some peeps hard earned cash for some greedy clients - and those massive hide/spot/move silent battles take me forever to run.
Zevox 07-08-07, 05:35 PM	If Zwei snipes from within her concealment, she can stay hiding within it without being spotted. If she doesn't, she is auto-spotted, and needs to break line-of-sight in order to hide again. Without Hide in Plain Sight, you cannot hide while being observed, and the only to prevent yourself from being observed when you attack is sniping. Its as simple as that. Zevox
MindWandererB 07-08-07, 05:39 PM	Wait, so Skip ruled once that you couldn't even share spells from scrolls with familiars, but then that you could from wands with animal companions? :uh-huh: ...so, any chance my previous suggestion that we cease using those articles is still under consideration? I'm really getting sick of his nonsense that apparently isn't even internally consistent...He originally ruled that you can't share effects from items at all (familiars); later, he ruled that you can (magic items). I'm assuming that he didn't have expendables in mind the first time around; that is, he was saying both times that you can't share effects like Bracers of Armor or Gloves of Dexterity. Either way, scrolls and wands have always been in the same boat (wherever that boat was sailing). The problem with ignoring those articles is that then we have to argue about everything that's currently covered in them. That's a lot of material. Furthermore, most of it is correct; as much as we complain, there's more correct than incorrect info in them. It's easiest to just use it unless it's blatantly and unarguably wrong.
templer10 07-08-07, 05:39 PM	If Zwei snipes from within her concealment, she can stay hiding within it without being spotted. If she doesn't, she is auto-spotted, and needs to break line-of-sight in order to hide again. Without Hide in Plain Sight, you cannot hide while being observed, and the only to prevent yourself from being observed when you attack is sniping. Its as simple as that. Zevox i really really really REALLY hate sneaks - did i mention that?
Zevox 07-08-07, 05:41 PM	You know, we have the delay penalty for a reason. ;) Zevox
NiQil 07-08-07, 05:58 PM	I find it reallly amusing to watch everyone rail against sneaks... Sneaks aren't what everyone hates. Sniping is what everyone hates, because it inherently involves lots of rounds spent hiding and such. Sneaks who simply use sneakiness to get to where they can unleash a powerful attack never receive any complaints, from what I see. It's just that sneaks and sniping often go together. But sneaks in and of themselves are not the problem and not what everyone hates....sniping is.
MindWandererB 07-08-07, 06:03 PM	I find it reallly amusing to watch everyone rail against sneaks... Sneaks aren't what everyone hates. Sniping is what everyone hates, because it inherently involves lots of rounds spent hiding and such. Sneaks who simply use sneakiness to get to where they can unleash a powerful attack never receive any complaints, from what I see. It's just that sneaks and sniping often go together. But sneaks in and of themselves are not the problem and not what everyone hates....sniping is. Or rather, evasion builds in general. Sneaking is just the most blatant violator, since never being found is the most reliable way of never being caught. That, and it involves more rolling than other types of evasion.
hogarth 07-08-07, 10:36 PM	Vallgar the Unhinged vs. Daren Legrad is finished (although I haven't posted rewards, etc. yet). If anyone has any questions, comments or concerns, please let me know.
Yitzi 07-08-07, 11:05 PM	Vallgar the Unhinged vs. Daren Legrad is finished (although I haven't posted rewards, etc. yet). If anyone has any questions, comments or concerns, please let me know. One question: Where are the tactics?
Erithmu 07-08-07, 11:28 PM	One question: Where are the tactics? The first 2 Sblocks?
hogarth 07-08-07, 11:38 PM	One question: Where are the tactics? They should be there now; I added them later.
MitzaVolchenko 07-09-07, 09:16 AM	I dont object to going after the horse - in fact i wouldnt have contested doing grapple either - if mitza would have mentioned it in her tactics (since creatures cerated by figurenes of wonderous whatucallit understand common) but she didnt mention to it and that's what i objected 2 - it really isnt personal - themagister/mitza. First, I haven't read the fight or the remainder of the commentary yet. Second, PMing concerns only is uncool when they are of this nature. In the future, this conversation needs to start and end here. Third, thanks TM. I appreciate the thought. Chemo was Thursday this week and I was late getting to tactics because I was still a day off in my head. I did include in my tactics to improv as needed and what he did was not out of the range of the tactics. Why would the griffon let go of prey once it grabs it? Had I stated for the griffon to graple, it would no doubt have resulted in you arguing that the griffon doesn't get tricks and therefor can't grapple on command. Fourth, lions grapple naturally...griffons are closest to lions and other big cats for combat style. Once pounced, they don't let go of their prey. The figurine griffon acts as a normal griffon of its type. This argument was had and overturned long ago with a nice little video of a lion charging, pouncing, and grappling an antelope that Macbrea posted. Fifth, I object to templer10 privately leveraging a pitlord call and complaining until he wins the fight. I will not ask that TM re-run the fight again, but I will ask that templer10 never do that again...there should at least be copies of those PM's in my in box. It is not cool. I haven't been reading the board much over the weekend, but Macbrea has been and would have alerted me had that discussion been public so that I had the option to argue it myself. Finally, I may have objections to the final draft once I have a chance to read it, but since I have an infection in my sinuses and jaw bone, that will have to wait on painkillers to kick in. Edit: Where is the revised draft of the fight?
Rauul 07-09-07, 09:36 AM	Or rather, evasion builds in general. Sneaking is just the most blatant violator, since never being found is the most reliable way of never being caught. That, and it involves more rolling than other types of evasion. Rather people like them or not they are that way because they don't have a Alpha strike and must use thier skills to thier fullest ability to even Survive in the Gladius.. I am sort of Shocked that Shadow is doing as well as he is... I expected to have a Failure tag by now... But the Failure tag will come... as he levels into touchsight area.. (touchsight should be Ban IMHO since without the Errata there is no way around it and it is a game breaking power)
templer10 07-09-07, 09:43 AM	First, I haven't read the fight or the remainder of the commentary yet. Second, PMing concerns only is uncool when they are of this nature. In the future, this conversation needs to start and end here. Third, thanks TM. I appreciate the thought. Chemo was Thursday this week and I was late getting to tactics because I was still a day off in my head. I did include in my tactics to improv as needed and what he did was not out of the range of the tactics. Why would the griffon let go of prey once it grabs it? Had I stated for the griffon to graple, it would no doubt have resulted in you arguing that the griffon doesn't get tricks and therefor can't grapple on command. Fourth, lions grapple naturally...griffons are closest to lions and other big cats for combat style. Once pounced, they don't let go of their prey. The figurine griffon acts as a normal griffon of its type. This argument was had and overturned long ago with a nice little video of a lion charging, pouncing, and grappling an antelope that Macbrea posted. Fifth, I object to templer10 privately leveraging a pitlord call and complaining until he wins the fight. I will not ask that TM re-run the fight again, but I will ask that templer10 never do that again...there should at least be copies of those PM's in my in box. It is not cool. I haven't been reading the board much over the weekend, but Macbrea has been and would have alerted me had that discussion been public so that I had the option to argue it myself. Finally, I may have objections to the final draft once I have a chance to read it, but since I have an infection in my sinuses and jaw bone, that will have to wait on painkillers to kick in. Edit: Where is the revised draft of the fight? Sorry mitza if you got hurt - it was never my intention - I never intented to hide things from you - i pmed TM becuase i caught it at the start of his running the fight and since you didnt mention to use grapple i objected - i wanted to save him the trouble of running that whole fight - then needign to rerun it - if you want - in the future i can include you in any pm's - about objecting to grapple itself- if you had mentioned it in tactics - since it was a gryphon - an INTELLIGENT (somewhat - int 5) magical beast who undertand common - i wouldnt have objected to it- copy this post into hard drive and hit me with it in 3 weeks from now if i do so, now if it was an animal with int of 2 i would have objected and rightly so - since in that case you need a trick or to push the animal but that's beside the point. Anyway - i hope you feel better and at least i will try to get the fight with you and rubi tonight or tommarow (work is murder) my money is on zwei in that fight actually if you can outlast TM super buff mode. p.s - the revised version is there - under a diffrent tag- it's mainly you doing summon monster and running away (after killing my horse grumble grumble) then i got into range and bbqed you.
MitzaVolchenko 07-09-07, 10:41 AM	Sorry mitza if you got hurt - it was never my intention - I never intented to hide things from you - i pmed TM becuase i caught it at the start of his running the fight and since you didnt mention to use grapple i objected - i wanted to save him the trouble of running that whole fight - then needign to rerun it - if you want - in the future i can include you in any pm's - Your opinion of how an standard griffon hunts and kills is not of any bearing on the fight. Allies are controlled by the pitlord and how they attack is up to the pitlord unless there is a reason that the player can specify exactly how the ally can attack. This is particularly true of summoned allies and allies from items. You did not have the right to leverage that call. If you don't believe big cats grapple naturally take a few minutes to watch google videos of lions pouncing and wrestling zebras, gazelles, and in one case humans. They sink in their teeth and often front claws then rake with their hind claws until their prey stops moving. TM wasn't improvising. He was running the creature as it is meant to be run. By the same token I could object to him selecting the horse as a target instead of Lorian in the current fight. The griffon should seek out (it automatically gets correct direction), diving pounce and then grapple/full attack Lorain every round until it is destroyed or Lorian dies...it is an inanimate object and doesn't need to eat the horse, nor do I need to re-command it to attack the other target once the horse is down. I am writing this off because I refuse to go through your typical twenty to thirty objections on any given fight and don't care to make TM work harder and listen to more complaints about this that and everything. Thanks for the run, TM...for the record my objections to a pitlord being overruled on an ally stand for fights against me as well...you will never see that complaint from me...it just isn't valid.
TheMagister 07-09-07, 11:27 AM	Thanks for being understanding Mitza. I would like you to know that I did post the entirety of templer10 and my PM conversation in this FotW thread AS SOON AS I HAD RESOLVED THE ISSUE TO MY SATISFACTION. I would NEVER allow a player to "muscle" me into a position I didn't like to be in and didn't feel that I could justify -- I realize that my job is to be as fair as possible to all involved parties. When I decided that Waste should grapple Lorian, it was a little bit of a reach. It made sense to me that it would be the "best" choice for Sybil, even if it wasn't specifically mentioned in tactics. When templer10 told me that he would fight the decision, I (in my mind) was FORCED to change my decision because he had a point -- it WASN'T specifically mentioned in tactics. I had to ask myself -- was templer10 having to compete against his pitlord or against Sybil. And my heart had a twinge. I listen to things like that. So I looked in the MMI and went with the "griffons like horsemeat" angle. I think it worked out as well as it possibly could have. I'm not sorry for my decision, but I am sorry you feel jilted. Will you still be my friend? ;) TM
TheMagister 07-09-07, 11:29 AM	Wow...Zwei certainly is getting a lot of hide checks, and it looks like Rubi doesn't have a clue as to where she is, even though he spotted her at least once. Are you certain you're running that correctly, t10? Maybe you'd better post what you have so we can look at it before you put too much more work into it... TM
templer10 07-09-07, 11:44 AM	Wow...Zwei certainly is getting a lot of hide checks, and it looks like Rubi doesn't have a clue as to where she is, even though he spotted her at least once. Are you certain you're running that correctly, t10? Maybe you'd better post what you have so we can look at it before you put too much more work into it... TM Iam pretty sure i made some mistakes there - when i got time to work at it again (probably tuesday - iam swamped at work now) like i like i will run it down again - and you got to say 1 thing about me - igeneraly dont get a lot of arguments post fight - i like to resolve Issues about fights BEFORE i post the fight and i do correct them if i find some. p.s. - about the protection from evil - sorry you are going to use it - it's in the tactics m8 and it's not the first time i saw mistakes like that. p.s.s - i realyl should write a profile for myself - first thing to write- i REALLY stick to tactics - good, bad or just wrong.
TheMagister 07-09-07, 11:46 AM	Iam pretty sure i made some mistakes there - when i got time to work at it again (probably tuesday - iam swamped at work now) like i like i will run it down again - and you got to say 1 thing about me - igeneraly dont get a lot of arguments post fight - i like to resolve Issues about fights BEFORE i post the fight and i do correct them if i find some. p.s. - about the protection from evil - sorry you are going to use it - it's in the tactics m8 and it's not the first time i saw mistakes like that. p.s.s - i realyl should write a profile for myself - first thing to write- i REALLY stick to tactics - good, bad or just wrong. That's fair enough. Why'd you leave your most complicated fight for so late in the week? I HATE holdovers. So does Mitza...
templer10 07-09-07, 11:54 AM	That's fair enough. Why'd you leave your most complicated fight for so late in the week? I HATE holdovers. So does Mitza... Most complicated? i had a 4 men FFA with 2 sneaks.... and i planned on finishing it before - work got in the way. btw- if someone sucsesfully sniped - can he rehide afterwards to improve his hide score without losing LOS - he is already hidden after all - it's releevnt since if i remmber correctly you get the reactive spot just once per round just before you get shot (since if you spot there is deflect arrows) - and if she can rehide (since last round hide were with the -20) her hide chance goes up a lot. p.s- mitza- tattoe of chamelon pretty please? would have made this almost an autowin for you. (considering higher move and huge map)
TelinArtho 07-09-07, 11:55 AM	Most complicated? You think that Rubi vs Zwei is more complicated than a 4-person FFA? In all fairness - I run fights as I get the tactics - first in - first out. And everyone hates holdovers.
TheMagister 07-09-07, 12:12 PM	forgot about the ffa. pay no attention to me...
MindWandererB 07-09-07, 12:16 PM	(touchsight should be Ban IMHO since without the Errata there is no way around it and it is a game breaking power)Oh? I don't have Complete Psionic; how does that book errata Touchsight? I wasn't aware that was among the many powers unofficially errata'd in that book.
hogarth 07-09-07, 12:19 PM	btw- if someone sucsesfully sniped - can he rehide afterwards to improve his hide score without losing LOS - he is already hidden after all - it's releevnt since if i remmber correctly you get the reactive spot just once per round just before you get shot (since if you spot there is deflect arrows) - and if she can rehide (since last round hide were with the -20) her hide chance goes up a lot. If you're willing to spend an action moving and not sniping, then you would be entitled to a new Hide check without the snipe penalty.
templer10 07-09-07, 12:27 PM	If you're willing to spend an action moving and not sniping, then you would be entitled to a new Hide check without the snipe penalty. Hide isnt an action - so as i understand it (and i suck at the hide and seek rules) you can rehide (better) if you didnt get spotted at last round. note that hide is a move action only AFTER you shoot - not before it.
templer10 07-09-07, 12:29 PM	Oh? I don't have Complete Psionic; how does that book errata Touchsight? I wasn't aware that was among the many powers unofficially errata'd in that book. Actually there is sort of a way around it - summon a lot of Human shaped monsters - for touchsight they look the same more or less if they dont have obvios distingusihing features.
hogarth 07-09-07, 12:31 PM	Hide isnt an action - so as i understand it (and i suck at the hide and seek rules) you can rehide (better) if you didnt get spotted at last round. The skill description lists two places where the Hide skill is used: Action Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action. So if you're not talking about using Hide to snipe, it has to be Hide as part of movement, doesn't it?
MindWandererB 07-09-07, 12:31 PM	If you're willing to spend an action moving and not sniping, then you would be entitled to a new Hide check without the snipe penalty. ...but if one had already been succesfully spotted, one wouldn't be able to try another Hide check while being observed (so, either break LOS or have HiPS).
hogarth 07-09-07, 12:35 PM	...but if one had already been succesfully spotted, one wouldn't be able to try another Hide check while being observed (so, either break LOS or have HiPS). Sure, but the question he asked started "if someone sucsesfully sniped..." so I didn't bother elaborating on that part.
templer10 07-09-07, 12:49 PM	The skill description lists two places where the Hide skill is used: So if you're not talking about using Hide to snipe, it has to be Hide as part of movement, doesn't it? Not as far as i understand it from our house rules- but anyway - and you can 5 feet move and hide which doent affect anything (usually) and still Snipe.
hogarth 07-09-07, 12:54 PM	Not as far as i understand it from our house rules- but anyway - and you can 5 feet move and hide which doent affect anything (usually) and still Snipe. I'm not sure exactly which house rule you're referring to. At any rate, my opinion is the same -- in any round in which you don't snipe, you don't suffer a -20 sniping penalty to Hide checks; in any round in which you do snipe, you do suffer the penalty.
TelinArtho 07-09-07, 12:55 PM	@hogarth - are you going to add in the fight summary for the Vallgar vs Daren fight?
MitzaVolchenko 07-09-07, 12:56 PM	Thanks for being understanding Mitza. I would like you to know that I did post the entirety of templer10 and my PM conversation in this FotW thread AS SOON AS I HAD RESOLVED THE ISSUE TO MY SATISFACTION. I would NEVER allow a player to "muscle" me into a position I didn't like to be in and didn't feel that I could justify -- I realize that my job is to be as fair as possible to all involved parties. When I decided that Waste should grapple Lorian, it was a little bit of a reach. It made sense to me that it would be the "best" choice for Sybil, even if it wasn't specifically mentioned in tactics. When templer10 told me that he would fight the decision, I (in my mind) was FORCED to change my decision because he had a point -- it WASN'T specifically mentioned in tactics. I had to ask myself -- was templer10 having to compete against his pitlord or against Sybil. And my heart had a twinge. I listen to things like that. So I looked in the MMI and went with the "griffons like horsemeat" angle. I think it worked out as well as it possibly could have. I'm not sorry for my decision, but I am sorry you feel jilted. Will you still be my friend? ;) TM As I said, no foul on your part...the griffon should have gone for Lorian not the ally...in the future I guess I just have to write very specific tactics for the griffon's combat style and then endure the opposite arguments of it can't be ordered like that and is too dumb to follow complex instructions...way it goes...and actually I may just refund the stupid thing since the court ruling nerfs its intended use anyway. I am sick and tired of the argued fights. Honestly, I don't think you should have changed your decision as to how the griffon would attack...they are natural full attack grapplers...same as the lion/tiger from bag of tricks. This has been beaten to death. Sybil ends her fight cycle and goes inactive for the next however long effective immediately. @templer10 If it comes to it surrender Zwei's fight rather than hold over. She is a losing build and at this point I really don't care that much either way. She is occasionally fun to RP.
hogarth 07-09-07, 12:58 PM	@hogarth - are you going to add in the fight summary for the Vallgar vs Daren fight? I will this evening. My wife was giving me the evil eye last night, so I had to cut things short. Do you have any major objections to the fight?
templer10 07-09-07, 01:04 PM	I'm not sure exactly which house rule you're referring to. At any rate, my opinion is the same -- in any round in which you don't snipe, you don't suffer a -20 sniping penalty to Hide checks; in any round in which you do snipe, you do suffer the penalty. FRom the hide skill description - hiding is a part of movement (so you dont actually need to do a move action - 5 feet is apperantly enough) and if the hider wasnt spotted the previos round and he only hides to improve hid hiding i think it should be possible.
TheMagister 07-09-07, 01:47 PM	FRom the hide skill description - hiding is a part of movement (so you dont actually need to do a move action - 5 feet is apperantly enough) and if the hider wasnt spotted the previos round and he only hides to improve hid hiding i think it should be possible. Oh, it's possible. But as soon as the hider fires his/her weapon, they're autospotted, even in the darkness. If they move behind an obstacle, then they can hide again. But then the defender knows exactly where the shot came from, and exactly where the hider went. So the defender can get much closer, which makes the hider MUCH easier to spot the next turn (considering the hider likely took all kinds of penalties from hiding at full speed [at least a -5]) and the defender knows just where to find them. TM
templer10 07-09-07, 01:58 PM	Oh, it's possible. But as soon as the hider fires his/her weapon, they're autospotted, even in the darkness. If they move behind an obstacle, then they can hide again. But then the defender knows exactly where the shot came from, and exactly where the hider went. So the defender can get much closer, which makes the hider MUCH easier to spot the next turn (considering the hider likely took all kinds of penalties from hiding at full speed [at least a -5]) and the defender knows just where to find them. TM i dont think you understand what i meant - I meant - if person A sucsuufull sniped (So is still hiding at end of round) can he do another hide check at beginning of next round to improve his hide result (assuming he is in concealment) - since he wasnt spotted earlier he doesnt need to break LOS. But nevermind - and working out some of my possible mistakes - was it ever ruled when does someone get his reactive spot? (since he only gets 1 per round) it at begining of his oponent round (so if spot is made activate deflect arrows, negate sneak attack etc) or aFter the attack is made and the other person is attempting to rehide (so the spot attempt is much easier).
MindWandererB 07-09-07, 02:17 PM	i dont think you understand what i meant - I meant - if person A sucsuufull sniped (So is still hiding at end of round) can he do another hide check at beginning of next round to improve his hide result (assuming he is in concealment) - since he wasnt spotted earlier he doesnt need to break LOS. But nevermind - and working out some of my possible mistakes - was it ever ruled when does someone get his reactive spot? (since he only gets 1 per round) it at begining of his oponent round (so if spot is made activate deflect arrows, negate sneak attack etc) or aFter the attack is made and the other person is attempting to rehide (so the spot attempt is much easier). It's basically made at the worst possible moment for the sneak. Whatever results in the most severe penalty for them/least severe penalty for the listener, based on location and actions. In any event, if the Hide check at -20 is failed, the attacker isn't considered invisible.
TheMagister 07-09-07, 02:20 PM	It's basically made at the worst possible moment for the sneak. Whatever results in the most severe penalty for them/least severe penalty for the listener, based on location and actions. In any event, if the Hide check at -20 is failed, the attacker isn't considered invisible. Is a hidden attacker ever considered invisible? Invisibility carries its own bonuses (like the +2 to hit mentioned in the description)...
hogarth 07-09-07, 02:33 PM	It's basically made at the worst possible moment for the sneak. Whatever results in the most severe penalty for them/least severe penalty for the listener, based on location and actions. In any event, if the Hide check at -20 is failed, the attacker isn't considered invisible. I don't think this is true (or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying). My understanding is that sniping works this way: 1) Person A hides (with no penalty) from person B. 2) Person A fires a weapon from hiding, and person B is denied his Dex bonus to AC since A is hidden from B. 3) Now if person A can succeed on a new Hide check at -20, he is still hidden from person B; otherwise person B has now spotted person A. Number 1) and 2) were confirmed in one of the "Ask Wizards" questions of the week.
MindWandererB 07-09-07, 02:36 PM	Is a hidden attacker ever considered invisible? Invisibility carries its own bonuses (like the +2 to hit mentioned in the description)... Yes, and that +2 (or -2 to AC) applies whenever the defender can't see the attacker at all. It's true for invis, it's true for blindness, it's true for blink, it's true for any such case. Edit: @hogarth: Yeah, you're right. I forgot they clarified that; the FAQ suggests that you use the "snipe" option to hide during the attack, not after. Edit 2: In fact, the FAQ specifically says this: "In this case [having concealment], she’d be considered hidden when she made the attack, although she’d have a –20 penalty on her Hide check." So color me confused.
TelinArtho 07-09-07, 02:50 PM	Ignatius, Vicar of Bahamut (Erithmu) vs Leif Goldeneye (Sunwolf) is up. Not official of course until 'Rith accepts the surrender, but I'm not sure there's anything else he can do.
hogarth 07-09-07, 03:13 PM	Yes, and that +2 (or -2 to AC) applies whenever the defender can't see the attacker at all. It's true for invis, it's true for blindness, it's true for blink, it's true for any such case. Edit: @hogarth: Yeah, you're right. I forgot they clarified that; the FAQ suggests that you use the "snipe" option to hide during the attack, not after. Edit 2: In fact, the FAQ specifically says this: "In this case [having concealment], she’d be considered hidden when she made the attack, although she’d have a –20 penalty on her Hide check." So color me confused. It definitely is confusing and I could definitely be wrong. My (mis?)understanding is that a Hide check at -20 is necessary if you want to be hidden before, during and after the attack (like a successful sniping attack). If you don't make the -20 check, then you're hidden before the attack but spotted during it (at which point it's still too late for your target to get his Dex bonus to AC); after it, you still might be able to hide again if you have some move left and the Hide in Plain Sight ability.
Zevox 07-09-07, 03:38 PM	Mohamat vs Slade is done. And some people say the swamp is annoying when sneaks use it - this is 50 rounds of two warriors unable to hit each other thanks to it (and some horrendous dice rolling). Zevox
TheMagister 07-09-07, 04:15 PM	It definitely is confusing and I could definitely be wrong. My (mis?)understanding is that a Hide check at -20 is necessary if you want to be hidden before, during and after the attack (like a successful sniping attack). If you don't make the -20 check, then you're hidden before the attack but spotted during it (at which point it's still too late for your target to get his Dex bonus to AC); after it, you still might be able to hide again if you have some move left and the Hide in Plain Sight ability. Well, the only way (to my knowledge) to hide before, during, and after an attack is to have shot on the run and hide in plain sight and two close instances of cover and high ranks in hide. Otherwise, you can: 1) begin hidden behind cover and snipe (stan + move rehide)(no actual distance moved), or 2) begin hidden behind cover and concealed via magic and move out into the open still unseen (concealment) and shoot (move + stan)(can't rehide b/c out of actions), or 3) begin in the open in hidden (concealment) and shoot and move behind cover to rehide (stan + move)(autospotted after the attack so the defender knows where the hider went). Did I miss a situation?
Yitzi 07-09-07, 04:22 PM	Yorick vs. Liara (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=13011437#post13011437)i s finally up.
hogarth 07-09-07, 04:22 PM	Well, the only way (to my knowledge) to hide before, during, and after an attack is to have shot on the run and hide in plain sight and two close instances of cover and high ranks in hide. Could be. How do you interpret the -20 penalty for hiding while "attacking or charging" then? Otherwise, you can: 1) begin hidden behind cover and snipe (stan + move rehide)(no actual distance moved), or 2) begin hidden behind cover and concealed via magic and move out into the open still unseen (concealment) and shoot (move + stan)(can't rehide b/c out of actions), or 3) begin in the open in hidden (concealment) and shoot and move behind cover to rehide (stan + move)(autospotted after the attack so the defender knows where the hider went). Did I miss a situation? Could be. How about: 4) begin hidden in some concealment. Foe unwittingly walks up next to you. You use a standard action to attack him (with a -20 penalty to hide while attacking) and then use a move action to move away afterwards (if desired). 5) begin hidden in some concealment. Use some movement to move up to enemy while hidden, attack while hidden (with -20 penalty), then move away afterwards (if desired). I think those scenarios are possible (among others), but maybe I'm misinterpreting things.
Erithmu 07-09-07, 04:27 PM	Ignatius, Vicar of Bahamut (Erithmu) vs Leif Goldeneye (Sunwolf) is up. Not official of course until 'Rith accepts the surrender, but I'm not sure there's anything else he can do. Surrender is good. Would have appreciated a note about the pp error as that would have changed tactics and dropped the vigor. But whatever, surrender is fine
TelinArtho 07-09-07, 04:39 PM	Sorry about that - I think at the time I wasn't worried about it as tactics-changing. In retrospect - I should have sent you a warning about it... my bad. I was more concerned about how to handle the situation with the initial dispel - either dispel the tentacles or go with the dispel on Leif. Before I realized that she wouldn't be able to target Leif because of the mirror images, I had gone with the dispel on him - but once I fixed that I was really unsure.
TheMagister 07-09-07, 05:40 PM	Could be. How do you interpret the -20 penalty for hiding while "attacking or charging" then? The -20 for hiding while attacking or charging is simple: if you attack or charge, you take a -20 penalty on your hide check if you have cover from someone else other than your target [the target presumably has a view of you that eliminates cover -- if he doesn't, you can rehide from him, too]). Could be. How about: 4) begin hidden in some concealment. Foe unwittingly walks up next to you. You use a standard action to attack him (with a -20 penalty to hide while attacking) and then use a move action to move away afterwards (if desired). 5) begin hidden in some concealment. Use some movement to move up to enemy while hidden, attack while hidden (with -20 penalty), then move away afterwards (if desired). I think those scenarios are possible (among others), but maybe I'm misinterpreting things. 4) four is certainly possible, as long as the result of your move ends with the attacker in cover so that he can re-attempt a hide check. 5) Impossible without spring attack. This exact situation is outlined in detail in the FAQ, if I remember correctly.
Yitzi 07-09-07, 05:41 PM	Saldor vs. Rolf is up.
hogarth 07-09-07, 06:34 PM	5) Impossible without spring attack. This exact situation is outlined in detail in the FAQ, if I remember correctly. Yes, I meant to put in Spring Attack but I forgot.
Yitzi 07-09-07, 07:51 PM	BTW, Hogarth, can you put up results in the Daren vs. Vallgar thread? It doesn't count as done until you do, and I would hate for Daren and Vallgar to be held over, and you to take the late penalty, just because you forgot to put a few lines in.
Sjiggie 07-09-07, 08:05 PM	Tiris Rush vs Dentik Earthmolder is up. The battle of the dwarf who tries to catch a speedy elf while the elf wants to avoid close contact with the dwarf. Made a little improvisation on the part of Telin's tactics because shatter had such a short range he wasn't able to catch Tiris in its range
TelinArtho 07-09-07, 08:51 PM	Tiris Rush vs Dentik Earthmolder is up. The battle of the dwarf who tries to catch a speedy elf while the elf wants to avoid close contact with the dwarf. Made a little improvisation on the part of Telin's tactics because shatter had such a short range he wasn't able to catch Tiris in its range Well - you didn't really do me any favors... I asked to run on the inside circle - and to remain behind cover when possible. In many of the rounds where Dentik runs - you left him in complete open territory when cover was merely 5ft away from the current path. However, don't bother changing the fight - I wasn't in the mood to win fights this week anyway and I don't see the point in taking it out on the board.
hogarth 07-09-07, 08:53 PM	BTW, Hogarth, can you put up results in the Daren vs. Vallgar thread? It doesn't count as done until you do, and I would hate for Daren and Vallgar to be held over, and you to take the late penalty, just because you forgot to put a few lines in. Rewards have been added.
NiQil 07-09-07, 09:28 PM	Tiris Rush vs Dentik Earthmolder is up. The battle of the dwarf who tries to catch a speedy elf while the elf wants to avoid close contact with the dwarf. Made a little improvisation on the part of Telin's tactics because shatter had such a short range he wasn't able to catch Tiris in its range There is one very large error here that needs to be corrected, because it is potentially fight affecting... Tiris does not possess the feat Rapid Shot. I'm not real sure where you got that. But that means all those rounds of attacks are going to need to be bumped down, which is going to give Entropic Shield the chance to negate some of those hits. I realize TA stated not to change the fight, but this is a rather large issue that I think deserves to be fixed. Edit: Also, the rewards need to be finished...the ammo used is missing.
Yitzi 07-09-07, 10:13 PM	About Lightwolf's fight-Mithos can't use a jump check to reduce his damage: If you intentionally jump from a height, you take less damage than you would if you just fell. The DC to jump down from a height is 15. You do not have to get a running start to jump down, so the DC is not doubled if you do not get a running start. If you succeed on the check, you take falling damage as if you had dropped 10 fewer feet than you actually did. If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Jump check or DC 15 Tumble check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. Thus, a character who slips from a ledge 30 feet up takes 3d6 damage. If the same character deliberately jumped, he takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 2d6 points of lethal damage. And if the character leaps down with a successful Jump or Tumble check, he takes only 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 1d6 points of lethal damage from the plunge. So unless Mithos planned to have Majesty die on him, he doesn't get to reduce the falling damage. EDIT: Looks like it wouldn't help anyway-I wasn't expecting a true strike disarm.
Macbrea 07-09-07, 10:45 PM	The hippogriffin had made it's minumum required flight speed to maintain forward movement. At the end of the next turn it was going to crash to the ground. I took that oppurtunity to jump instead of fall with Mithos. As the fall would of course add 1d6 additional damage. Also, note the rider and mount are considered on simultaneous initiatives. The Rider is allowed a move and a standard action along the way. Jumping is a move action. I didn't allow a safe fall for riding because of the height of the mount. It's not really riding the mount to the ground type maneuver.
Zevox 07-09-07, 11:38 PM	In any event, a soft fall ride check would've allowed Mithos to ignore at least some falling damage. ...but damn, that sucks. Mithos may have won, but losing Majesty to a crit in fight 1 of his cycle - and on the first fight hes ever had the chance to use him, I might add - is just horrendous. Especially considering the present ECL 7 roster is not particularly forgiving... *shakes his head* Well fought Yitzi, well fought. Edit: @ Macbrea - Mithos used 3 1st-level spells (2 True Strikes, 1 RoE). Wrap-Up says 2. Zevox
Macbrea 07-09-07, 11:46 PM	Fixed on second True strike.
templer10 07-10-07, 02:45 AM	Yorick vs. Liara (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=13011437#post13011437)i s finally up. Thanks for the run- how you moved me realyl wasnt true to tactics but i wont argue that since it wouldnt have made much of a diffrence - i do want something fixed at round 11 - i spotted yorrik and then you had him do a 5 foot move and rehide - BUT he as i learned from doing my own sneaks fights (and peeps here) After being spotted you need to break LOS to be able to rehide and considering the position liara and yorick is he can't 5 foot so he need to do something else to get a new hide check (possibly provoking AoA - which will be to grapple) and if he does manage to break LOS i will know EXACLY where he was when i lost sight of him so i should know his squere to be able to get a 50% chance of hitting him. if both of this are done and the dice wont go my way - iam fine with the fight.
Yitzi 07-10-07, 08:18 AM	It's a bit late, and I may not be able to get it done in time for the deadline, but I'll see what I can do. As for how I moved you, that was improv, since your tactics clearly weren't working (you said to go to that niche, but he could hit you fine there from range, and if you had just moveed around you would have lost, since the darkness was on him.)
templer10 07-10-07, 08:28 AM	It's a bit late, and I may not be able to get it done in time for the deadline, but I'll see what I can do. As for how I moved you, that was improv, since your tactics clearly weren't working (you said to go to that niche, but he could hit you fine there from range, and if you had just moveed around you would have lost, since the darkness was on him.) All you have to do is roll an attack roll for grapple since in that round he wither cant reach a place he can hide from (likely) since most of them involve getting an AoE in the way (if i remmber correctly) or he did hide but i know wher ehe was last so i have a 50% chace of hitting him - if i do manage to grapple If he manage to escape and break LOS to hide again he wins with current rolls - if he doesnt escape or does so and cant get to break cover he loses most likely.
Macbrea 07-10-07, 08:35 AM	It should be noted in that fight that you need to Roll again for both poisons on round 21 and 23. As even if you save. you have to make the secondary saves 10 rounds later. And my mention if I was spotted was to withdraw, so I don't provoke a AnO from withdrawing and can double move behind cover.
templer10 07-10-07, 09:00 AM	It should be noted in that fight that you need to Roll again for both poisons on round 21 and 23. As even if you save. you have to make the secondary saves 10 rounds later. And my mention if I was spotted was to withdraw, so I don't provoke a AnO from withdrawing and can double move behind cover. i have lance in hand so withdrawin only saves you from the first AoA (from lancer) - - not from teh lance itself (but cant grappel with it) but even if you get to cover since i saw you up to there i know which squere you are so i can still attempt to hit you.
TheMagister 07-10-07, 11:36 AM	Hey, templer10? I just thought of something: Zwei's darkness spell hampers her movement, making every square cost 10 ft. That'll probably make a difference.
TelinArtho 07-10-07, 11:42 AM	Hey, templer10? I just thought of something: Zwei's darkness spell hampers her movement, making every square cost 10 ft. That'll probably make a difference. No it doesn't... It creates an area of shadowy illumination - so there's no penalty to movement that I see.
MitzaVolchenko 07-10-07, 11:47 AM	Ymandrake vs. Tatsuo (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13019960&postcount=1078) is up. Dice decided that one.
TheMagister 07-10-07, 12:04 PM	No it doesn't... It creates an area of shadowy illumination - so there's no penalty to movement that I see. Well, heck. I wonder where I got that from? I don't usually just make stuff up. HEY! HERE's something neat! Look at the DMG pg 303 at the tail end of the "Darkness" entry. There's something neat there for people getting sniped at. It starts with the paragraph: -If a blinded creature is struck by an unseen foe, the blinded character pinpoints the location of the creature that struck him... And ends with: (if the unseen opponent) uses a ranged attack (in which case the blinded character knows the general direction of the the foe, but not his location). Interesting! Weren't we talking about this just the other day?
MitzaVolchenko 07-10-07, 01:11 PM	Atemu vs. Kathren is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13020787&postcount=1079) Conclusion was about what it looks like both parties expected.
Eluria 07-10-07, 01:24 PM	Mohamat vs Slade is done. And some people say the swamp is annoying when sneaks use it - this is 50 rounds of two warriors unable to hit each other thanks to it (and some horrendous dice rolling). Zevox Thanks for the run Zevox; I'm surprised it turned out that close, honestly - I thought the bog was the only chance, but that was stranger than I expected (was expecting full half-giant clobbering); thanks for going through it!
Zevox 07-10-07, 01:43 PM	Atemu vs. Kathren is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13020787&postcount=1079) Conclusion was about what it looks like both parties expected. Looks good to me. Only error I see is that the scythe should only have had -4 damage (-1 str, x4 crit), but that just solidifies the win for Kathren. Thanks for the run. Zevox
stimpydoda 07-10-07, 02:00 PM	Ymandrake vs. Tatsuo (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13019960&postcount=1078) is up. Dice decided that one. Only problem I saw was that in the wrap up, you didn't note the charge I used from my wand of MM. Wow, I was very, very, very, very, VERY lucky..... but....I'd rather be lucky than good, so I'll take it :)
MindWandererB 07-10-07, 02:44 PM	Odd coincidence: the two younger Durrol siblings not only have the exact same powerrating, but they've kept the exact same rating even after this week's results (each went up by 102).
Zevox 07-10-07, 02:50 PM	Odd coincidence: the two younger Durrol siblings not only have the exact same powerrating, but they've kept the exact same rating even after this week's results (each went up by 102). You mean the two older Durrol siblings - Ceilia is the youngest of the ones I'm playing (shes 20, Mithos is 26, Kathren is 28), and shes well above the other two. ;) That is an odd coincidence though. Kinda neat. Zevox
templer10 07-10-07, 02:56 PM	Rubi vs zwei is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13022946&postcount=1080)- and men do i NOT want to do this again - Hide (almost) in plain sight vs potion of invisibility - that's a pain in the butt.
Yitzi 07-10-07, 03:30 PM	All you have to do is roll an attack roll for grapple since in that round he wither cant reach a place he can hide from (likely) since most of them involve getting an AoE in the way (if i remmber correctly) or he did hide but i know wher ehe was last so i have a 50% chace of hitting him - if i do manage to grapple If he manage to escape and break LOS to hide again he wins with current rolls - if he doesnt escape or does so and cant get to break cover he loses most likely. Actually, he withdrew so there was no AoO, but the different locations led to a better chance of hitting him by accident, and the dice were on your side, so it actually did change the results. Once again, phew!
Macbrea 07-10-07, 04:14 PM	Please roll the secondary saves on for the poisons. They could seriously effect this fight.
templer10 07-10-07, 04:21 PM	Please roll the secondary saves on for the poisons. They could seriously effect this fight. Also note that as far as i know you dont need to roll concetration to manifest grip of iron since it's immidetate action - also you didnt do grapple check for round 22 (to cause dmg) to i only have to make 1 save not 2 since it advance the dmg caused all by 1 round. p.s. - thanks for the RErun.
Macbrea 07-10-07, 04:36 PM	Also, why once grappled did Yorick bother to try and escape. Logic says he pretty much cannot so, he should fight in a grapple. Grrr: Going to have to de-level him..
Sjiggie 07-10-07, 04:46 PM	@ Telin & NiQil I've editted the fight between Dentik and Tiris. Don't know why I had Tiris rapid shoot must had mixed some characters up because I thought he had it. Anyway new result is up with arrow count nothing changes it ends only a bit earlier because Tiris attack bonus became higher. I've tried to use the same rolls that were rolled in the online roller but didn't reflect that in the roller itself. -Sjiggie
TelinArtho 07-10-07, 04:54 PM	Looks like you still need to add the stones that Dentik used though.
MitzaVolchenko 07-10-07, 05:37 PM	Rubi vs zwei is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13022946&postcount=1080)- and men do i NOT want to do this again - Hide (almost) in plain sight vs potion of invisibility - that's a pain in the butt. I am reviewing the fight now. So far there is a pinpoint in round 14 that should have meant a 50% miss chance bowshot on Round 15. I am not sure what was going on with being 10' apart and him not seeing her/her not shooting him. You did not avoid charging lines...and with that much cover, around, that is easy to do. I will have to map the fight in order to see exactly what the heck was going on, but she should never have been left standing without a wall of some sort between her and Rubi. I'll get back with a full commentary when I have mapped the fight, but as it stands it doesn't look at first blush like you ever bothered with cover. One of the more obvious examples being rounds 15-16 where she double moves out into an open area and he double moves to 10' away from her? What is the logic of double moving into the open instead of looping into cover?
TheMagister 07-10-07, 05:52 PM	Rubi vs zwei is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13022946&postcount=1080)- and men do i NOT want to do this again - Hide (almost) in plain sight vs potion of invisibility - that's a pain in the butt. I appreciate the work you put into this fight. Thanks! Still, there is an issue that would make a difference (maybe in only the number of charges Rubi has to use). Round 17: The damage on the crit should be 2d6+6(off presc and metaphysical)+2d6(fire). Minus Zwei's Energy Resistance 5. Round 20: Rubi should be flurrying recklessly. That means that the damage for the first hit should be 1d6+3+1d8(hammer)+2d6(fire) - 5(ER). Might end the fight right there. Round 22: Reckless Flurry. Two hits, same damage as round 20. Might save Rubi a charge or two of Hammer. Thanks! TM
TheMagister 07-10-07, 05:53 PM	Mitza's concerns are valid.
templer10 07-10-07, 05:55 PM	I am reviewing the fight now. So far there is a pinpoint in round 14 that should have meant a 50% miss chance bowshot on Round 15. I am not sure what was going on with being 10' apart and him not seeing her/her not shooting him. You did not avoid charging lines...and with that much cover, around, that is easy to do. I will have to map the fight in order to see exactly what the heck was going on, but she should never have been left standing without a wall of some sort between her and Rubi. I'll get back with a full commentary when I have mapped the fight, but as it stands it doesn't look at first blush like you ever bothered with cover. One of the more obvious examples being rounds 15-16 where she double moves out into an open area and he double moves to 10' away from her? What is the logic of double moving into the open instead of looping into cover? i didnt shoot since at that range it would have had a high chance of getting spotted and you emphatised evasion on shooting - i thought about running but had the same problem i honestly couldnt figure out how to get you away from him while he was still invisible - When you were spotted he had just 1 round to respond and unluckily to you he was at charge range (if barely) - and you didnt know you were spotted (again since he was invisible) - barrid horrid luck (which happened with a natural 1 on the hide he most likely would have been able to spot you and when delay penalty hit i judged him to be more evading then you were (since at least he had something of a chance to spot you) i probably would have made him pinpointable (still have invisible bonus to attack and 50% miss) but know which squere)
templer10 07-10-07, 05:57 PM	I appreciate the work you put into this fight. Thanks! Still, there is an issue that would make a difference (maybe in only the number of charges Rubi has to use). Round 17: The damage on the crit should be 2d6+6(off presc and metaphysical)+2d6(fire). Minus Zwei's Energy Resistance 5. Round 20: Rubi should be flurrying recklessly. That means that the damage for the first hit should be 1d6+3+1d8(hammer)+2d6(fire) - 5(ER). Might end the fight right there. Round 22: Reckless Flurry. Two hits, same damage as round 20. Might save Rubi a charge or two of Hammer. Thanks! TM err - wasnt it ruled that you cant do your normal damage on a flurry of hammers?
MitzaVolchenko 07-10-07, 05:57 PM	That still doe snot answer why in several rounds Zwei sis standing nowhere near anything resembling a wall and never broke up the charging lines. You have them standing within 15' of each other and not a wall in sight. She hears him nearby, but never moves to actually put an obstacle between them...
templer10 07-10-07, 06:01 PM	That still doe snot answer why in several rounds Zwei sis standing nowhere near anything resembling a wall and never broke up the charging lines. You have them standing within 15' of each other and not a wall in sight. She hears him nearby, but never moves to actually put an obstacle between them... she heared hi nearby when he approaced her - not at the end of her turn so she didnt know where to go in order to have a wall in there - i tried to put as much actual distance between them - she might be hidden and untargatable but Rubi always generaly knows where she is for his entire round - since the darkness is always there and zwei at best knew where he was after she moved already. btw - she did go to walls on some of the occesions and she was going 2 go ther in the next round but then the dice gods stepped in and decided they liked TM.
MindWandererB 07-10-07, 06:02 PM	err - wasnt it ruled that you cant do your normal damage on a flurry of hammers? No, just the opposite. It was ruled that you can't flurry Hammer without making unarmed strikes, with unarmed strike damage.
MitzaVolchenko 07-10-07, 06:07 PM	she heared hi nearby when he approaced her - not at the end of her turn so she didnt know where to go in order to have a wall in there - i tried to put as much actual distance between them - she might be hidden and untargatable but Rubi always generaly knows where she is for his entire round - since the darkness is always there and zwei at best knew where he was after she moved already. btw - she did go to walls on some of the occesions and she was going 2 go ther in the next round but then the dice gods stepped in and decided they liked TM. I'll map and highlight. I don't think you particularly followed her tactics either sent or default. I am not even sure she can hide some of the places you put her.
templer10 07-10-07, 06:08 PM	No, just the opposite. It was ruled that you can't flurry Hammer without making unarmed strikes, with unarmed strike damage. Ill have to go do edit those last 1-2 rounds then - it wont change anything then possibly number of charges - but i need to be off now - i will try to get it at work tommrow - but it's more likely it will have to be done after work like an hour before deadline or some such (iam on GMT +2).
templer10 07-10-07, 06:10 PM	I'll map and highlight. I don't think you particularly followed her tactics either sent or default. I am not even sure she can hide some of the places you put her. She doesnt need to get Into cover to hide most of the fight since she has darkness on her - she only need cover to hide if she was actually spotted - we had that looooong discussion earlier in the week.
MitzaVolchenko 07-10-07, 06:16 PM	She doesnt need to get Into cover to hide most of the fight since she has darkness on her - she only need cover to hide if she was actually spotted - we had that looooong discussion earlier in the week. I am not going into this with you until I actually map the fight. Standing her out in the open where Rubi doesn't even have to make a direction decision to go around full conver and can easily charge when he does get lucky on a spot is STUPID.
Yitzi 07-10-07, 07:27 PM	Please roll the secondary saves on for the poisons. They could seriously effect this fight. Done, and they did (so you don't have to de-level). Templer10, where does it say an immediate action does not require a concentration check to use while grappling? Not that it matters now. As for why Yorick tried to escape, it's because that way he has at least a small chance, thanks to escape artist (and if he didn't identify Bull's strength of Grip of Iron, he would think it was a pretty decent chance). If he tried to fight it out, he would need to use either an attack at -4 penalty and no sneak attack, or an opposed grapple check, neither of which would have a good chance of hitting. And then he would do far less damage than Liara was doing; by trying to escape he at least had a chance.
MitzaVolchenko 07-10-07, 09:26 PM	@Templer10 Round one: Rubi randomly gets to choose the best corner for cover versus Zwei. No roll to determine though there is a random roll for which rock Zwei starts at. Why is she not seeking/shooting? Note to self: purchase suppressed display tattoos. Needs Court decision. Round 14 even though I have pinpoint, cover, superior movement to withdraw I don't take a shot. Why? I know he has to be invisible since I hear him, but I don't see him. Round 15 I double move into the open for some unknown reason. Round 16 I double move into the open again for some unknown reason. Round 17 I move to yet another wide open space and don't bother to actually break LOS to re-hide. This lets him charge me. My tactics say move from cover to cover, not dance around pretending that concealment (darkness) is the same thing. Every attack Rubi makes needs its 20% miss chance for concealment. The movement needs to be altered to actually make some bit of sense and follow my tactics.
TheMagister 07-10-07, 10:43 PM	I'm fine with any and all adjustments needed to make the fight correct. For the record, I'm NOT fine with any adjustments Mitza wants because of "pitlord decisions she thinks are bad that were made at a certain moment in the fight". (Sorry, Mitza -- but I felt I should clarify myself. At the risk of sounding like I'm wanting a free lunch, weren't you ready to surrender to keep this from being held over [which we both don't want]?) TM (trying not to sound whiny but failing...)
NiQil 07-10-07, 10:47 PM	I'm fine with any and all adjustments needed to make the fight correct. For the record, I'm NOT fine with any adjustments Mitza wants because of "pitlord decisions she thinks are bad that were made at a certain moment in the fight". (Sorry, Mitza -- but I felt I should clarify myself. At the risk of sounding like I'm wanting a free lunch, weren't you ready to surrender to keep this from being held over [which we both don't want]?) TM (trying not to sound whiny but failing...) Naw....not whiny...it's just that we can't take you seriously now since you flashed us all (with yer pic). No one can picture you mad or upset now LOL
MitzaVolchenko 07-10-07, 10:50 PM	I'm fine with any and all adjustments needed to make the fight correct. For the record, I'm NOT fine with any adjustments Mitza wants because of "pitlord decisions she thinks are bad that were made at a certain moment in the fight". (Sorry, Mitza -- but I felt I should clarify myself. At the risk of sounding like I'm wanting a free lunch, weren't you ready to surrender to keep this from being held over [which we both don't want]?) TM (trying not to sound whiny but failing...) Not really sure what you mean. My tactics say move from cover to cover, not 'rely on concealment.' The miss chances should be there and she shouldn't be standing around in a charging lane with no cover in sight. I did say surrender it rather than hold over...before the fight was done when he said he didn't have time to complete the fight or might not have time to complete the fight...there is a big difference in taking a loss to prevent hold over because the pitlord couldn't finish the fight and taking a loss because the pitlord didn't care to run it correctly. After mapping the fight and reading it carefully, he has her stand around for several rounds doing nothing, not bother to fire when she has a pinpoint on an invisible target, not bother to use cover even though my tactics say to use cover, and never gives the miss chances for a power that is part of Zwei's LA. I would rather see a hold over than see that stand uncorrected. So, no not offended that you want the fight over, but not backing down on the issues either.
Zevox 07-11-07, 12:52 AM	Kraegin vs Monsters. I'm sorry, Telin.
TelinArtho 07-11-07, 01:04 AM	Kraegin vs Monsters. I'm sorry, Telin. Thank you for posting the conversation that went with it. I certainly am not holding a grudge against you for it - we have all made decisions that might have wronged one person or another in our time. I am all about moving on. I just feel pity for the opponents in Kraegin's next two fights...
MindWandererB 07-11-07, 01:30 AM	Just for the record, an auto-win is only for when the monster has essentially no chance whatsoever. A monster with less than half the speed of a character with near-infinite ranged attacks (which is simulated when a monster has to squeeze), a monster with no ranged options or flight against a flyer, and so on. A fight that would merely be extremely difficult for the monster should not be rerolled.
TelinArtho 07-11-07, 09:49 AM	That's kind of the discussion that Zevox and I had. The original roll was not rerolled because it was an auto-win for the player, but rather because the pitlord felt there would be too many monsters in the battle because of Kraegin's summons. But as I point out in the conversation - we have resolved the issue - it won't happen again, so I'm moving on.
TelinArtho 07-11-07, 09:54 AM	@Zevox - can you include the xp/gp cost for the LPA and a fight summary indicating that LPA is still ongoing please? Should be 100xp/193gp.
Zevox 07-11-07, 11:48 AM	@Zevox - can you include the xp/gp cost for the LPA and a fight summary indicating that LPA is still ongoing please? Should be 100xp/193gp. Done. Zevox
templer10 07-11-07, 02:04 PM	About Zwei vs Rubi - i did the concealment rolls that were missing - no effect, did correct dmg for rubi - ended the fight earlier. Abut zweis not sniping at 14- as i said before from that close snipping is almost a gurneteed Spot so she double moved. About movement after as i said zwei didnt know when she was picking routes where will she be getting cover from Rubi since she could only hear him when he moved towards her so i moved her to get physical distance away from him. perheps the last round you moved wasnt the best move out of all possible combinations But i didnt move Rubi the best either - considering darkness is Aoe - you can figure out where the person is in that Blob of concealment and get a good estimate of correct squere - he could have used that knowladge to put himself in the way and Blocking some movement routes for Zwei - i didnt do that either. Last round might have not been the best move in the world but wasnt the worst either. about charging lanes - since zwei didnt know exacly where rubi is she cant always avoid charging lanes. personally and it's beside the point - i Frankly didnt think Rubi had a prayer of ever spotting Zwei In the next 2 or 3 rounds before the delay penalty hit. i really dont want to revisit this fight since as far as i see it from the reasons above and the first attack that rubi gets to do is a crit and zwei fails the fort save - so that decides the fight right then and there and i dont see a way even if zwei manage to snipe a few times that she kills Rubi without him getting whitin range even once. (now if she had +30 or so hide)
MitzaVolchenko 07-11-07, 04:58 PM	Right...noted...tactics will not be followed. templer10, cover means solid objects not hanging around in the open. If she has a directional detection of any kind,s he knows how to run around a wall. I am done arguing with you and indeed done running fights with, for, or against you so it won't be a further problem. I am strictly quest and mission for the next few months.