Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 07-05-06, 11:49 AM	Fights of the Week: July 5th Sheets Deadline for editing characters sheets is 21:00 CET. By my estimate - that leaves you with about 3 hours by my clock - so finish up your editing. Central European Time (http://wwp.centraleuropeantime.eu/) shows the time. Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions. Please do not make fake accounts. If you do, there will be pain for all of your multiple personalities, plus bannings and feeding to dragons. Oh and curses - lots and lots of curses. Pairings GM Caterane will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Make sure that your character is not in Prison (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571107&goto=lastpost). Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need, there is a nice Template ready to use that will help. You could find very useful the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps, You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. Other useful links are Skills and Feats, Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't attack pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play and above all, have FUN! Latest News You level up even during the 3-Fight-Cycle (Rules: Battles I) provided you have enough XP of course. Pitlords have to use Usurpator's XP:GP table to determine gold rewards. All references to the old table have been deleted from the rules. (Rules: Pitlords) This also affects losing XP. Involuntary XP loss (eg familiar death) and XP loss through crafting disappears from the CoCo. The alternative is the Virtual XP idea and we agreed that this is too much of a hassle. Characters who crafted or lost XP until Jun 28 do not have to re-add them retroactively. XP loss by casting spells with an XP Cost also cost an equal amount of gold which is directly taken from Usurpator's XP:GP table. Pitlords should use the Standard Fight Summary. Pitlords who run PCs in Fight 2 have to include the summary from Fight 1 (Fight 1 PCs don't have a previous summary and Fight 3 PCs have completed the cycle anyway). (Rules: Pitlords) Miniquests count for 2 activations per character from this week on! (Rules: Quests) Miniquests to enter a guild do not count against your maximum allowed MQ slots (1/level). Planar Allies: If you pass the 'helpful' diplomacy Dc by X or more, the planar ally fights for free. X is the number of HD of the called ally. (Rules: Allies I). Planar Allies with an 'Always' alignment listed always have that alignment. If only one part is listed as 'Always' (eg. always good) then the other component is free to pick by the player. If the planar ally has a 'Usually' alignment listed, it can be anything within one step (eg. usually CE can also be NE or CN). If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
SoulLord 07-05-06, 12:00 PM	Looks around for Huan before the deadline arrives.
Macbrea 07-05-06, 02:24 PM	Well, this should be a fast two weeks for me. Is this the correct annotation for a two week armor build? Ready, July 5th and 12th, Full action of Craft Mithril Full Plate 7/11 At least for the post title. Izumi's character sheet is much more complex.
TelinArtho 07-05-06, 02:37 PM	About 25 minutes left. Make sure you get your last minute edits in on time.
TelinArtho 07-05-06, 02:39 PM	Well, this should be a fast two weeks for me. Is this the correct annotation for a two week armor build? Ready, July 5th and 12th, Full action of Craft Mithril Full Plate 7/11 At least for the post title. Izumi's character sheet is much more complex. Personally, even when crafting - I update my title, so I would have it like so: Ready July 5th, 2006 Craft Mithril Full Plate Week 1/2 and then Ready July 12th, 2006 Craft Mithril Full Plate Week 2/2 The 7/11 is a little confusing given the dates of 7/5/2006 and 7/12/2006 - even if it is indicating: 7k/11k. However, it should be fine.
Macbrea 07-05-06, 02:44 PM	I might run out of characters but will check. EDIT: Ready, July 5th and 12th, Full action of Craft Mithril Full Plate 7k/11k Appears to have fit. I think I will just leave it like that.
Pitlords 07-05-06, 02:45 PM	Here in Europe, we list the day, then month, then the year. That's why using written months (eg 5.July) is always less confusing, especially around mid-year with 5/7 and 7/5. Most of the time I get it right though. I've added the house rules for XP Loss to the Rules: Races and Classes. There's also a new Standard Character Sheet up in place of the old one. Thanks to NiQil for this awesome work!
TelinArtho 07-05-06, 03:04 PM	For those who have multiple allies of the exact same stats (with perhaps gender and name differences - possibly even tricks) - I recommend using a grouped together ally, rather than listing them out separately. I have noticed this on at least 2 characters (Destra and Salrantrol's 3rd level druid) -- where they have an animal companion and then 2 wolves (Destra) or riding dogs (Salrantrol). The end result is these take up a lot of space - when they essentially are the same animal. If they had different feats or abilities - I could understand giving them separate entries - but as it is - it makes it difficult for both your opponents and for your pitlords (which is more important...). Since we regularly hit the 50k maximum on fight posts - I would say that the ally sections could really be trimmed down for some characters. Just a suggestion.
Sindorin 07-05-06, 03:06 PM	Well, because RL is a pain right now I was not able to fully finish editing Seaendithas before the deadline. Oh well.
Zevox 07-05-06, 03:09 PM	For those who have multiple allies of the exact same stats (with perhaps gender and name differences - possibly even tricks) - I recommend using a grouped together ally, rather than listing them out separately. I have noticed this on at least 2 characters (Destra and Salrantrol's 3rd level druid) -- where they have an animal companion and then 2 wolves (Destra) or riding dogs (Salrantrol). The end result is these take up a lot of space - when they essentially are the same animal. If they had different feats or abilities - I could understand giving them separate entries - but as it is - it makes it difficult for both your opponents and for your pitlords (which is more important...). Since we regularly hit the 50k maximum on fight posts - I would say that the ally sections could really be trimmed down for some characters. Just a suggestion. Hmm... probably a good idea. I'll do that with Destra right away (shes crafting this week, so editing after the deadline shouldn't be a problem), and after his fight I can do the same with Asran's Furies. Thanks for the suggestion. Zevox
Pitlords 07-05-06, 05:41 PM	PAIRINGS DONE Characters in Prison Solan the Righteous (Iced) Ba'al of the Grave (Book5) Zwei und'Vierzig (MitzaVolchenko) Anixx the Warbringer (Iced) Validi Reborn (Iced) Virgo Arkazzan (King Uther) Credit Changes: +6: Caterane, Erithmu +3: DSugui +2: KingUther, SauroGrenom, NiQil +1: bluemage, Hawkeye, Iced, Papapeperoni, Traevanon, Soullord +0: AbyssalStalker, Mindwanderer, TelinArtho, Zevox -1: Stormwind, Dracazar, Magister -2: Huan -4: Vathelokai This week we see the first official Inter-League fights of the CoCo. We all appreciate comments from the pitlords of these pairings. Once again I want to ask you to leave your title lines blank if you don't fight. That speeds up the process of activating characters during pairings. Streamlined title lines also help a lot. I want to ask all pitlords to look for ways to reduce the workload for pitlords when you run your fight. Suggestions so far were that you don't have to list the positions if you use a map instead, or that you don't have to post a 'round by round summary' if nothing new happens in a round. There are surely more ideas out there.
Erithmu 07-05-06, 05:51 PM	Figures ... I take MWB monk quest so that my archer doesn't have to fight him and then my other char draws Zero ... (stupid dumb burrow speed) .. at least I have a semi open arena. @MWB: your MQ is up @KU & Drac I have a midterm on Monday, expect the fight to be up quick and me quelching any arguments rapidly. I will probably run computer blackout period during Sunday.
TelinArtho 07-05-06, 06:08 PM	@Zevox - tactics for Farig sent. Good luck to Ash. I'll send out Ana's tactics later tonight. As always - my gladiators should send tactics ASAP so that I have more opportunity to pick up fights of others :)
King Uther 07-05-06, 06:59 PM	@Erithmu Tactics for Alagar vs Uilo sent bia PM. @Gladiators Tactics must be in by Friday morning, as that is when I will run the fights. @Campaigners Please PM me with finished characters so I can ready the thread. @Pitlords I PMed you about Bilk and Cyalin. If they cannot be paired, I understand, but my guild needs me.
Pitlords 07-05-06, 07:42 PM	@Pitlords I PMed you about Bilk and Cyalin. If they cannot be paired, I understand, but my guild needs me. I am sure you sent the PM only to Guildlords and Guildlords added them to the Guild Roster. Guildlords has nothing to do with the Character Roster though. I will pair them retroactively. EDIT: Bilk (King Uther) & Cyalin (King Uther) vs. Unknown Monsters : Caterane [Temple] [Team] Send tactics early please. I wanted to run only one fight this week.
Caterane 07-05-06, 08:07 PM	Bilk & Cyalin's Monsterfight is set up here. Both Monsters identified including equipment; one of it is from a lower league. (rolled 9% -> 66%). The other one looks tough though.
DirewolfX 07-05-06, 08:22 PM	@Huan, Tactics for Reinard sent via PM. Thanks for running the fight!
Erithmu 07-05-06, 08:31 PM	@Telin: Tactics for Ignatius sent to your email box @Abyssal: Tactics for Loddick sent via PM ... looking like a repeat of what he did last week @KU: Tactics received and looks good.
TelinArtho 07-05-06, 09:29 PM	@Bluemage - tactics sent for Ana via PM. Good luck to my opponents. @Erithmu - tactics received for Ignatius.
NiQil 07-05-06, 09:44 PM	@ King Uther: Tactics for Igg sent via PM @ Zevox: Tactics for Ook sent via PM
Zevox 07-05-06, 10:49 PM	@ NiQil & Telin - Tactics recieved, thank you. @ My other players - Tactics ASAP please. Tomorrow and Saturday are prime opportunities for me to run these, so early tactics means fights run early. @ Dracazar - If you won't have time to work out group tactics, let me know and I'll write up Annalina's seperately from Dracazar's. Or even write both if you wish. @ My Pitlords - Other than the team fight, I should have tactics away tonight. Zevox
MindWandererB 07-05-06, 11:15 PM	@Telin: Tactics sent. @Iced: Tactics and addendum sent. Should be relatively painless all around, considering.
Zevox 07-06-06, 02:06 AM	@ Iced - Tactics for Archdevil Asran (vs Aerryl Naladar) have been PMed. Its amazing how big of a difference the maps can make. Last week Asran surrendered to Aerryl because the map put him in a position where he could only kill her with a couple of very lucky crits, this week I'm pretty confidant he can win. @ DSugui - Tactics for Ceilia Durrol (vs Geoffrey vs Lantash) have been PMed. Now thats an interesting battle - three mounted characters on the plains. @ Papapeperoni - Tactics for Indrithia Celeth (vs Monsieur Hood) have been PMed. I sense an end to that bad luck that has plagued her last three fights (the fact that she got paired with an archer with next to no melee skill is indicitive of that from where I'm standing ;) ). @ Traevanon - Tactics for Eraca Moralta (vs Kendal Aphos) have been PMed. Speaking of archers fighting arrow-deflecting monks... eh, at least this one has several ways to win other than just her arrows. Eraca should stand a good chance here. I just hope this fight doesn't turn too ugly on you (you'll see what I mean)... Zevox
Ravashack 07-06-06, 03:28 AM	Tactics have been sent to Zevox via PM.
waywreth 07-06-06, 08:49 AM	@Zevox - tactics for Gaston in Perius (Ravashack) vs. Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) : Zevox [Sewer] sent via PM.
Dracazar 07-06-06, 08:57 AM	@ Dracazar - If you won't have time to work out group tactics, let me know and I'll write up Annalina's seperately from Dracazar's. Or even write both if you wish. Wow! My first inter-league! awesome! :D Zevox today I have some spare hours (ehm, minutes) please contact me via MSN, ICQ or PM and we will do the plan. Ciao
Milov 07-06-06, 09:14 AM	Tactics for Ihdald vs. Ook have been sent, Zevox.
TelinArtho 07-06-06, 12:11 PM	The Annoying snake vs the noble dragon-man is up here (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9562344). Let me know if there are any issues.
Zevox 07-06-06, 12:14 PM	@ Milov - Tactics for Ihdhald recieved, thank you. @ Ravashack - Tactics for Perius recieved, thank you. @ Waywreth - Tactics for Gaston recieved, thank you. Looks to me like I should be able to run both Ook vs Ihdhald and Gaston vs Perius today. I'll start one of those in an about an hour. @ Dracazar - Well, I'm afraid I don't use any instant messangers, but I'll PM you some thoughts. Zevox
TheMagister 07-06-06, 12:15 PM	@Papapeperoni & Zevox - tactics for Mssr. Hood vs. Indrithia Celes sent via PM. This is gonna be a toughie. TM
MindWandererB 07-06-06, 01:50 PM	The Annoying snake vs the noble dragon-man is up here (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9562344). Let me know if there are any issues.I'm afraid there is a major issue. My tactics say to end each of my turns as far away from Ignatius as possible. In round 4, that would be the southwest corner, not the southeast one. Zero has enough movement (barely) to fly within LOS of Ignatius, shoot, and turn right around and land back where he started. This puts him out of reach of a double-move-and-base.
TheMagister 07-06-06, 02:11 PM	I'm afraid there is a major issue. My tactics say to end each of my turns as far away from Ignatius as possible. In round 4, that would be the southwest corner, not the southeast one. Zero has enough movement (barely) to fly within LOS of Ignatius, shoot, and turn right around and land back where he started. This puts him out of reach of a double-move-and-base. Are you taking into account the 10' gain in altitude Zero would have to accomodate to get over the drop when returning to his starting square? If i remember correctly, you have Zero fly at 0' altitude so that he can touch down as a free action and make direction changes. This would mean that Zero takes off from a starting square, moves out, moves down 2 squares (at 1/2 movement cost), gets close enough to shoot, Fires, touches down, turns around, flies back, climbs 2 squares (at x2 movement cost) and lands. TM
Zevox 07-06-06, 02:37 PM	Ook the Fighter vs Ihdald Seaslash is up. Quick and brutal, as one would expect from a warrior vs warrior fight in an enclosed arena. Zevox
TelinArtho 07-06-06, 02:43 PM	I'm afraid there is a major issue. My tactics say to end each of my turns as far away from Ignatius as possible. In round 4, that would be the southwest corner, not the southeast one. Zero has enough movement (barely) to fly within LOS of Ignatius, shoot, and turn right around and land back where he started. This puts him out of reach of a double-move-and-base. I've drawn out the map a few times and tried to do this. If you moved absolutely optimally - yes - this would be the case. However, since you fly out to be able to hit him from his previous location, and then have to search a little more, and then move further to break his cover (from the central statue) - the truth of the situation is, you can fly back, but you won't have the benefit of a hiding place - you'd be right at the edge of the top area if this was the case. If you had moved back to there, he has enough movement to get you within his reach again - so the same situation unfolds.
Sunwolf 07-06-06, 03:28 PM	@Cat Tactics for Leif vs Dronner and Manzarf sent by PM.
Erithmu 07-06-06, 03:53 PM	@Telin: I'm cool with the fight as long as MWB is ok with your explination, but you did forget to include the rewards for Ignatius although I'm sure they are 2100xp/and 2600gp If you do make revision, could you use the expanded damage rolls instead of the normal size rolls please, they tend to hurt a little more.
MindWandererB 07-06-06, 04:07 PM	I've drawn out the map a few times and tried to do this. If you moved absolutely optimally - yes - this would be the case. However, since you fly out to be able to hit him from his previous location, and then have to search a little more, and then move further to break his cover (from the central statue) - the truth of the situation is, you can fly back, but you won't have the benefit of a hiding place - you'd be right at the edge of the top area if this was the case. If you had moved back to there, he has enough movement to get you within his reach again - so the same situation unfolds.Well, let me try it with the dynamapper.... Hold on, I see the problem. You never updated Ignatius' location! You show him at 21,21 the entire match. So I have no idea where he is supposed to be. Let me try to retrace what should have happened: Ignatius jumps down. Zero moves to the center, but detects Ignatius en route and relocates.http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=temple;a=Igna,M,25,25,2 1,21;b=Zero,T,27,4,21,10,5,6 Ignatius expands and moves. Zero moves out, quickly locates Ignatius, moves to negate his cover, and retreats. I wish the dynamapper had more waypoints for this, but this is adequate.http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=temple;a=Igna,L,21,21,1 9,16;b=Zero,T,5,6,15,11,15,8,6,2 Ignatius puts up Force Screen and moves. Zero flies out again, locating Ignatius nearly instantly, shoots, pivots, and relocates to the furthest possible location, which is now in the northwest.http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=temple;a=Igna,L,19,16,1 7,11;b=Zero,T,6,2,9,2,6,28 Ignatius uses his boots, and is barely able to climb the stairs with his 120 feet of movement. Zero is already close enough to detect him, and his move+shoot puts him in the southwest corner.http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=temple;a=Igna,L,17,11,1 9,15,15,27,15,30;b=Zero,T,6,28,6,2 Now, obviously this isn't precisely what you did, but with the tactics given, this should be the result as far as I can tell. 60 feet of blindsense and 150 feet of speed is plenty enough to detect Ignatius and make it out of there. There's never any need to drop to the ground in this case--it wastes speed and is not mentioned in my tactics. At the very least, please correct the coordinates in the fight so I can see what happened.
TelinArtho 07-06-06, 04:11 PM	@Telin: I'm cool with the fight as long as MWB is ok with your explination, but you did forget to include the rewards for Ignatius although I'm sure they are 2100xp/and 2600gp If you do make revision, could you use the expanded damage rolls instead of the normal size rolls please, they tend to hurt a little more. Edited in the xp and gold. Didn't realize I had forgotten about the extra damage from being expanded... if I do go back to make significant edits - I will take this into account. [EDIT] @MWB - sorry about the locations. I'll edit in the coordinates, but in round 2, he moves from 21,21 to 15,21 (using top left when he is expanded). In round 4, he moves at half speed from 15,21 to 21,20 Part of the problem though is that when you don't find him at your original thought location, you increased in altitude slightly in order to get over the statue (which in the end - you didn't need to do). In round 4, Zero moves from 4,7,2 to 12,12,3 (which is when he notices Ignatius) then westward to 16,12,3 (firing when he reaches that square). At that point he has used 80ft of movement. Now - the way I ran it - I had him finish off his movement in the same direction, finishing at 27,7,2. However, if you wanted to turn around and return to the same place, the closest he could get to would be 8,7,2 - which is very much in reach of Ignatius. I'll post the map with this route in so you can see. Give me one minute. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/TelinArtho/af-ignatiusvszero.jpg
TelinArtho 07-06-06, 04:34 PM	Let me give some explanation for the map. First of all - the pink is Ignatius (and when expanded - 4 squares of him...); the dark blue is Zero. The light blue "X"s indicate the location of the edge of where Zero could see Ignatius before Ignatius move in round 4. The dark blue "X"s indicate the location of the edge of where Zero would see Ignatius as he moved. As I said before - as soon as he ascended to be able to continue flying over the statue - he detected him.
MindWandererB 07-06-06, 04:42 PM	All right, here's what I get from that. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=temple;a=Igna,L,15,21,2 0,21;b=Zero,T,4,7,6,7,11,12,11,14;los=11 ,14,20,21,4 Zero almost immediately detects that Ignatius is no longer where he was, and heads directly toward his last known location. He establishes LOE after moving 60 feet. He can easily make it back to his corner with his remaining 90. Alternatively: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=temple;a=Igna,L,15,21,2 0,21;b=Zero,T,4,7,6,7,14,15,7,6 Instead of flying to Ignatius' lask known position, he goes over and onto the statue before establishing LOE. This route takes him 80 feet, but he can land on the statue, pivot, and head back with his remaining 70.
TelinArtho 07-06-06, 04:58 PM	First off - I gave the wrong position. It should have been 21,20 not 20,21. A small difference, but a difference nonetheless. Secondly - while you can supply me with more "optimal" directions - this is only with information that your character doesn't have. He moves out and starts to ascend and discovers his opponent after 60ft of movement. If he then pops onto the statue to fire (another 25ft of movement), pivot and fly back - he'll land at 6,7 - which still doesn't net him the hiding he wants - and still leaves him open to getting into Ignatius' threatened area. While I may have moved Zero to the "wrong" location in the original run of the fight - changing it to the location that you want (that is - as far away as possible) - doesn't net you anything because you still are not out of Ignatius's reach.
MindWandererB 07-06-06, 05:42 PM	I'm still not seeing it. To climb the south stair, Ignatius needs to move 110'. That puts Zero out of range. There's no way he can reach 6,7 without jumping up. Besides which, Zero can be further back than that. Zero gets the information he needs well in advance of the point of no return, as it were. The moment he ascends or attempts to circumvent the statue, he establishes LOE and can plan the rest of his movement accordingly. He can reach the statue using only 75 feet of movement, not 85.
TelinArtho 07-06-06, 09:26 PM	Well apparently you aren't happy with the fight as is. Since I have the time, I'll continue it on - with you moving back as I indicated. The only reason I am willing to work with it - is because I have realized on my own the error that I made - that if you had moved there and like-wise for Ignatius - you would have cover from him - which means he wouldn't have been able to take the AoO I thought he would. In any case - it will end up meaning that I'll need to improvise on Ignatius's tactics. Since the rolls are already set - if he gets a single AoO in - the fight is essentially over for you. But we'll see how things go.
MindWandererB 07-06-06, 09:38 PM	Well apparently you aren't happy with the fight as is. Since I have the time, I'll continue it on - with you moving back as I indicated. The only reason I am willing to work with it - is because I have realized on my own the error that I made - that if you had moved there and like-wise for Ignatius - you would have cover from him - which means he wouldn't have been able to take the AoO I thought he would. In any case - it will end up meaning that I'll need to improvise on Ignatius's tactics. Since the rolls are already set - if he gets a single AoO in - the fight is essentially over for you. But we'll see how things go.Fair enough. I realize that my chances aren't all that good--once I lose track of him, he's got a good chance of sneaking up on me. Of course, he only has so much Haste... so we'll see. I don't normally like to argue so hard, especially about a single action. The most important thing is to identify exactly what I could have said differently to avoid this situation. If the pitlord edits the fight, it's not a mistake I made that cost me the fight (at least, not for that reason). If not, I have to figure out how to better phrase my movement for next time. And I'm aware that if he were a bit speedier--Skate, for instance, or even if he weren't a dwarf--the loss would have been my fault. I won't make that same mistake again, you can be sure... although I haven't figured out yet how to avoid it.
TelinArtho 07-07-06, 12:39 AM	I haven't posted the edited fight, but I have completed it. To let you know the result hasn't changed - but I feel the fight is much worse now than it was before. Why? Because that one round took me a few hours to adjust - and when it was all said and done - I felt like I was manipulating it until I found a way for Ignatius to win. In the first version of the fight - other than the one point about staying as far away as possible - I did get it all right (in my opinion). In this new version, Ignatius has to adapt his tactics in a way he did not necessarily intend, but at least I maintained the intention of Zero's tactics. What did he do? Well, he activated his boots, and moved away (silently - and undetected again) and then readied to move when Zero attacked him. Zero had to move beyond the statue in order to detect him - so Ignatius strolled up right next to him - and voila - Zero can either finish his move on that round by taking an AoO or Zero can end his turn now and wait for Ignatius to take a full attack on him. I'll post the adjusted rounds later.
MindWandererB 07-07-06, 12:54 AM	For obvious reasons, I won't ask for a further edit. I don't think that was a reasonable improvisation to perform for Ignatius--that's a pretty complex strategy to come up with on the fly. And I think I agree with you that it sounds like you were trying to invent ways for Ignatius to win. I'm trying not to get accusatory or defensive here, but why did you feel like you had to do that? I know you don't like Zero, from having to deal with him before. If he's sufficiently annoying that I can't get a fair shake with him, then I'll grudgingly retire him. I don't like to think that that would be a factor in determining how viable a build is, but if that's the way it is then I have no choice. Better to retire him now than have every pitlord who runs him try to invent ways for him to lose. I feel like I'm up against two tacticians--the player and the pitlord--one of whom has access to the precise reasons why the original tactics were inadequate. Please try to understand my frustration. Zero uses a unique strategy, totally unlike any other character I've seen with the possible exception of Va'ria, who is only vaguely similar due to Phantom Steed. I wanted to see how viable his strategy is. If the reason it's not viable is because no one wants to run him, then I feel like I haven't learned anything and have thrown away a ton of credits activating him for nothing. I do have other character concepts waiting in the wings, but none of them are as unique. I hope I can continue to play him, but if I can't, then I can't.
TelinArtho 07-07-06, 01:09 AM	Well, that's my problem with it. The only improvisation that Ignatius can do is something like that, or sitting waist deep in the lava right next to the statue and jump up when you come around the corner. Frankly - either one would've worked - I just picked the one that seemed more likely. And as far as "complex improvisations" go - I think I'm a little more at liberty to handle that with a 14 Int half-dragon than a 5 Int white dragon... but hey. Back to what I want to say - I think I gave you a fair shake in the original fight. Here's the tactics that we've been arguing over: 2) Since Ignatius lacks any ranged weapon aside from his breath, this should be fairly simple. Using Flyby Attack, fly to establish a shot (eliminating cover if possible, which should always be the case), shoot (Psionic Shot the first time), and retreat to a location as far from Ignatius as possible. Be sure to break LOS and any possible charge at the end of my round. Never fly within 20 feet, or end my turn in a location where he can move and attack (assuming 20' reach). Don't regain focus--I want to make sure I can position myself safely every round. Just plink away at him--his HP and AC are low enough that it shouldn't take inordinately long. First you want me to use fly by attack, but only shoot by eliminating cover and then retreat as far as possible. After that you say to also break LOS and a possible charge oh and also don't fly closer than 20ft and don't end a turn within a move and attack, assuming that he's got a 20ft reach. Out of all that - I'm off by 5ft and you think I'm giving Zero an unfair fight? I admit - when I first ran the fight - he didn't go back to the southwest because I felt he was safe in the southeast. In fact - the only part of your tactics that he wasn't in that set above was the "farthest away possible." However, by following where you wanted me to put him, I actually miss out on a fair bit more - namely the cover and keeping out of sight. So anyway - I did give Zero a fair shake in the first run of the fight. In the second version, where I was forced to improvise for Ignatius - the result seems forced. If a dragon with a 5 Int can analyze that he's better off out in the open at a distance of 105ft from his opponent than under cover 100ft from his opponent - than a character with a 14 Int can analyze that he's better off readying while invisible at a point where the dragon can't escape from.
MindWandererB 07-07-06, 01:23 AM	All right, we're plainly done here. My lesson is that I need to be clear which components of the tactics take priority over which. And, unfortunately, I also learned that you will take comparative Int in consideration when deciding how far to improvise tactics. Not much I can do about the latter, except take comfort in the fact that not many pitlords do that. The former, I can and will. I don't feel good about it, and I still feel like I'm up against two tacticians--if a less experienced player had been running this, they probably wouldn't have come up with that, and the result would have changed--but this is plainly the end of this conversation. I'll just have to see whether anti-Zero bias will become an issue in the future.
King Uther 07-07-06, 01:38 AM	@Gladiators I have only received 50% of my tactics. Fights are being run tomorrow, so if they are not in the morning, I will wait until mid-afternoon. If they are still not in, then I am running two forfeits this week. I apologize if I sound mean, but quick tactics equals quick fights with quick edits if necessary.
Dracazar 07-07-06, 03:19 AM	@Hawkeye_60: Quesis's tactic sent @SauroGrenom: Dracazar' tactic sent @Erithmu: Uilo's tactic sent
bgt 07-07-06, 10:14 AM	@King Uther-Tactics sent. Going by your above post, I belive you recived them. @Huan-Tactics sent.
DSugui 07-07-06, 10:28 AM	@King Uther: tactics for Daisy was sent by Email. If you did not receive that, let me now and I will resend to you. @bluemage: Tactics for Krug sent by PM
King Uther 07-07-06, 12:35 PM	@DSugui I do prefer PM, but I'll check my email prior to running the fight.
DSugui 07-07-06, 12:49 PM	@DSugui I do prefer PM, but I'll check my email prior to running the fight. I always check the active pitlords post to send tactics. It would be nice to change the link there to your PM since you prefer it. Just let me know if you didn't receive the tactics so I can resend them. @Cat: Tactics for Dronnar and Manzarf sent by PM.
MindWandererB 07-07-06, 02:12 PM	@Huan: Deadline is in two hours, and I lack tactics for Dameon. He also has no defaults. I don't want this to be the second fight in a row that I run for you in which I have to have you forfeit. Please get me something to work with.
Zevox 07-07-06, 02:38 PM	@ Sauro - Tactics for Annalina's part in Annalina & Dracazar vs Jonathan have been PMed. Zevox
Caterane 07-07-06, 02:41 PM	Bilk & Cyalin vs Unknown Monsters can be found here.
Papapeperoni 07-07-06, 03:11 PM	Tactics for Kendal sent. Tactics from TheMagister and Zevox received. I will run the fight this weekend. Greets, --Papapeperoni, God of Pizza's
King Uther 07-07-06, 04:00 PM	Igg the Barbarian vs Ivan Banai is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9572409&postcount=733) You need to see the first 3 rolls of attacks rolled in this fight.
Traevanon 07-07-06, 07:13 PM	Oops. Hawkeye 60 I think I loaded up someone else named "Hawkeye" with my tactics for the week. I'll forward them as soon as I get nome from work. It was the underscore (rather than a space) that threw me. Edit: Nevermind, tactics sent. Sorry for the tardiness, can I blame it on Pitlords for listing you as "Hawkeye" in the pairings? ;)
Erithmu 07-07-06, 09:10 PM	Alagar vs Uilo is up Ahem .... Nine Total fighters Eight Djore usages Seven Bonus critters Six Rounds of chase FIVE HOURS TO FINISH! Four Natural 20s Three Tied rolls Two Kitty treats and an Owl Plummeting to the Ground If you have seen my sanity, could you please return it.
NiQil 07-07-06, 09:44 PM	Igg the Barbarian vs Ivan Banai is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9572409&postcount=733) You need to see the first 3 rolls of attacks rolled in this fight. @ KU: A couple of very minor issues that could hugely affect the outcome of this fight. The first, and perhaps the most important, is where you had me start. I stated to start in the default square of my box. You chose to position me at the rear corner. If I had started where specified, I would not have been able to run in round 1, and would have ended a double move right by the northern stairs. In the beginning of round 2, you stated that Ivan saw Igg. That means that at some point during his move east, Igg would also see Ivan. Simple math would tell Igg that the quickest way to gain melee would be to go back the way he came, rather than proceed around the far side of the arena. Whether this occurs during the double move in round 1, or in round 2, either way it prevents Igg from going to the far side of the arena and wasting time. Also in round 2, Ivan tap a tattoo of Force Screen. If for some reason Igg had not seen Ivan previously, there would need to be a listen check here as force screen has an auditory display when activated. This also would tell Igg where Ivan was located (at least generally) if successful, and cease the need to continue around the far side of the arena. The reason that this is all important is that if Igg proceeds around the west side of the arena, rather than the east, one or more of those insane arrow attacks may never get made, since the shorter path would allow me to base sooner, and since Ivan will have to move around obstacles to set up a firing line. As to the improv regarding the sundering on my part and the fighting defensively on Ivan's part, I have no problems with that...improv was applied evenly there to improve the odds of winning on both sides. Take a look at these and let me know what you think.
NiQil 07-07-06, 09:47 PM	Oops. Hawkeye 60 I think I loaded up someone else named "Hawkeye" with my tactics for the week. I'll forward them as soon as I get nome from work. It was the underscore (rather than a space) that threw me. Edit: Nevermind, tactics sent. Sorry for the tardiness, can I blame it on Pitlords for listing you as "Hawkeye" in the pairings? ;) Blame Cat. Cat has a very bad habit of leaving out characters in people's names when listing pairings because he tries to go as fast as possible...that's how we end up with Hawkeye, MindWanderer and Malither instead of Hawkeye_60, MindWandererB and Malither76. I would just get used to double checking people's names when you send tactics...your sanity will last longer.
King Uther 07-07-06, 10:26 PM	@Erithmu Using djorge charges was fair game since the snake was close. I wanted to conserve money if I could, but it would be insane to go melee considering. @NiQil True. I was getting caught up in the "run around as quickly as possible." As far as that goes though, you have to admit that the luck had by Ivan was rather remarkable. Even if Igg stopped and turned around, he will still take the 19 damage dealt to him by arrows. Here is how I envision the fight going: Igg continues to run after seeing Ivan to stay out of sight. Ivan moves to his back corner for LOS. Igg runs back. Ivan rapid shots then 5ft steps right(I really don't think there is any way to avoid this shot). Igg Runs and bases, and Ivan gets one punch in for 5 damage. (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=509186) (The original 19 attack roll was switched to melee) However, Igg would naturally get one more attack, missing. (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=509192) Please let me know if there is something about this I am not seeing. I can devote some time tonight or tomorrow morning to correct this.
King Uther 07-07-06, 10:34 PM	@Erithmu Could I get you to add the 102gp from Craft: Stone Statues in the fight?
NiQil 07-07-06, 10:57 PM	@Erithmu Using djorge charges was fair game since the snake was close. I wanted to conserve money if I could, but it would be insane to go melee considering. @NiQil True. I was getting caught up in the "run around as quickly as possible." As far as that goes though, you have to admit that the luck had by Ivan was rather remarkable. Even if Igg stopped and turned around, he will still take the 19 damage dealt to him by arrows. Here is how I envision the fight going: Igg continues to run after seeing Ivan to stay out of sight. Ivan moves to his back corner for LOS. Igg runs back. Ivan rapid shots then 5ft steps right(I really don't think there is any way to avoid this shot). Igg Runs and bases, and Ivan gets one punch in for 5 damage. (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=509186) (The original 19 attack roll was switched to melee) However, Igg would naturally get one more attack, missing. (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=509192) Please let me know if there is something about this I am not seeing. I can devote some time tonight or tomorrow morning to correct this. Except you missed the primary idea behind what I said. There would be no run in round 1, because Igg's position would not allow it if he had started in the default square as I asked. It would be a double move that would end at the northern staircase. As soon as LOS is gained, he would immediately backtrack the way he came with whatever movement he had left (if any) Ivan would move forward in round 2 as he did already, manifesting force force screen. If Igg had not already begun backtracking, he would do so now, moving back towards his own starting square, again with a double move, most likely ending right back in the default square, or further west if he had any movement left during the previous round. This would then cause Ivan to have to Rapid Shot through cover, which would cause the critical shot (the second 20) to not confirm. That would lessen the damage drastically. Also, I disgree with switching the ranged attack (the 19) to a melee attack. Thematic rolls should be kept...that roll should be saved for use with a ranged attack, and a new melee roll made.
Erithmu 07-07-06, 10:57 PM	@Erithmu Could I get you to add the 102gp from Craft: Stone Statues in the fight? Going to add it now ... Don't get to excited I am expecting Drac to have something to say.
King Uther 07-07-06, 11:02 PM	No worries.
Traevanon 07-07-06, 11:14 PM	Quick question about the city map... What is the scaffolding?
Zevox 07-07-06, 11:27 PM	Quick question about the city map... What is the scaffolding? Near as I can tell, its the brown things in the start boxes. The info on the map mentions that they can be used to climb to a roof (at 1/4 speed as usual), but without making a climb check, and I can't see anything else that would fit that description on the map. Zevox
King Uther 07-07-06, 11:30 PM	I think they are near the 4 balconies.
Traevanon 07-07-06, 11:46 PM	I'll go with that Zevox. It really looks like a bench, but either way its a boost.
King Uther 07-07-06, 11:50 PM	I've always used Thematic rolls that way. Attacks rolls are all the same Saves are all the same etc... Simply put, they would've rolled that if it were a different attack.
MindWandererB 07-07-06, 11:56 PM	My Inter-league, Dameon Leonne (Huan) vs. Tivik Valcs (mattes) and Hawkeye (Hawkeye_60) is up. Death is a tax on people who are bad at math. In D&D, anyway.
Hawkeye_60 07-08-06, 12:39 AM	My Inter-league, Dameon Leonne (Huan) vs. Tivik Valcs (mattes) and Hawkeye (Hawkeye_60) is up. Question, in round 3, how does Damoen hit Hawkeye with an attack roll of 15 vs AC 17? And why did you have him move away from Dameon if he lost LOS with Dameon?
Hawkeye_60 07-08-06, 12:49 AM	@ Dracazar and Traevanon: Tactics received. Your fight will be run during my split shifts Saturday and Sunday, and should be posted by Sunday night.
MindWandererB 07-08-06, 01:11 AM	Question, in round 3, how does Damoen hit Hawkeye with an attack roll of 15 vs AC 17?That's a darn good question. Hmm... just seems like a dumb mistake on my part. Well, keeping thematic rolls, his next bow attack would have hit and done the job, so Hawkeye would have gotten only one more shot off. Wouldn't have mattered, for many obvious reasons. But thanks for pointing it out. Edit: I went ahead and rolled another attack for Hawkeye. It missed. And why did you have him move away from Dameon if he lost LOS with Dameon?I didn't. Round 2, he loses LOS and moves closer, not further, trying to re-establish it. Round 3, he has LOS and moves away so that he can maintain distance, and not lose LOS.
Hawkeye_60 07-08-06, 01:16 AM	Oh, ok. And I think you might have mistaken the damage roll for the attack roll that round, as that equals Hawkeye's AC.
MindWandererB 07-08-06, 01:21 AM	Oh, ok. And I think you might have mistaken the damage roll for the attack roll that round, as that equals Hawkeye's AC.Either that, or I accidentally looked at the horse's AC instead. Mea culpa, either way.
Dracazar 07-08-06, 02:38 AM	Alagar vs Uilo is up Hi Erithmu, First of all thank you for the run. I would like to ask you these: 1) Why you used only 1 owl? I asked for owls, there is plenty of spell levels It was clearly asked as first sentence to use all available to win 2) Why you used only 1 mist? There are 2 scrolls there Again it seems a bit against the sentence to use all resources I ask that because it seems that the mist+owls tactics was going good and I don't know why Uilo stopped it. 3) On round 17 the save was 1 so you rolled the item, with great luck it was the wand, but it should be granted another save to the wand The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack deal Also the item should have hardness and could resist the damage. If so, Uilo could use more heals on next rounds and she has more charges than his dorje 4) About the dorje Don't use more than 5 Djorge charges. I'd prefer to use my bow, despite its low to-hit chance. Uilo has no way to boost AC. Disregard this if Dog, Snake and Uilo are all within 15ft. He used lot more than 8 charges, If he would have used the bow Uilo would have benifeted of snake cover and less hit chance (the disregard contingencies was not meet because the dog was not there) I'm a bit embittered because reading the fight it seems that Uilo found a good tactic (mist+owls) against the flying foe and break it when he could do again, while Alagar has a quite less good tactic (fly+dorje) and used it more than he thought. Also, but this is only a personal consideration that everyone should skip, mist+owls seems really a nice druidic tactic while a flying melee war-duergar that send a mercenary while he hovers is less nice seeing :D *joking* Again I would like to thank you for the hours spent running the fight. I know that it would be time consuming to do changes but perhaps something could be fixed.
TheMagister 07-08-06, 07:12 AM	My Inter-league, Dameon Leonne (Huan) vs. Tivik Valcs (mattes) and Hawkeye (Hawkeye_60) is up. Death is a tax on people who are bad at math. In D&D, anyway. Hey, explain Tivik's 25 AC to me? Dex 16 (+3) Full Plate (+8 armor bonus, +1 MAX DEX BONUS) Tower Shield (+4 shield bonus, +2 Max Dex) ----------------------------------------------------- total: +8+4+1+10(base)= 23. Am I missing something, or did Dameon hit a little more? TM
Traevanon 07-08-06, 08:47 AM	I wanted to stop Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs. Kendal Aphos (Papapeperoni) : Traevanon [City] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9575329&postcount=736) at this point (round 11) because I am worried that Zevox did not calculate rooftop movement correctly. I cannot accept tactical advice at this point but if you would like me to improvise from this point or if I am in error about how it works let me know before she kills herself with falling damage.
TheMagister 07-08-06, 10:06 AM	I dunno. Solan the Righteous broiled himself alive in the temple two weeks ago vs. Mssr. Hood. Why shouldn't Eraca fall off a house and break her neck? I'm really just joking. The lava thing was funny, though. Now, I'm not the pitlord here, but I have been A pitlord. If Zevox's character's tactics have completely broken down, it's your job to improvise, with or without Zevox's permission. And it certainly looks like you're doing the balance checks correctly. Another thing of note is that as long as a character is making a balance check on his action, he is denied his Dex to AC whether the check is successful or not unless he has 5 or more ranks in Balance. Even monks lose the benefit of their Dex to AC, though they keep Wis to AC and their Monk AC bonus. Note: wands of grease are suddenly more worthwhile to a rogue... TM
Erithmu 07-08-06, 10:09 AM	Hi Erithmu, First of all thank you for the run. I would like to ask you these: 1) Why you used only 1 owl? I asked for owls, there is plenty of spell levels It was clearly asked as first sentence to use all available to win 2) Why you used only 1 mist? There are 2 scrolls there Again it seems a bit against the sentence to use all resources I ask that because it seems that the mist+owls tactics was going good and I don't know why Uilo stopped it. 3) On round 17 the save was 1 so you rolled the item, with great luck it was the wand, but it should be granted another save to the wand Also the item should have hardness and could resist the damage. If so, Uilo could use more heals on next rounds and she has more charges than his dorje 4) About the dorje He used lot more than 8 charges, If he would have used the bow Uilo would have benifeted of snake cover and less hit chance (the disregard contingencies was not meet because the dog was not there) I'm a bit embittered because reading the fight it seems that Uilo found a good tactic (mist+owls) against the flying foe and break it when he could do again, while Alagar has a quite less good tactic (fly+dorje) and used it more than he thought. Also, but this is only a personal consideration that everyone should skip, mist+owls seems really a nice druidic tactic while a flying melee war-duergar that send a mercenary while he hovers is less nice seeing :D *joking* Again I would like to thank you for the hours spent running the fight. I know that it would be time consuming to do changes but perhaps something could be fixed. 1) At the time I used the SNAIII Giant owl (Large w/ 26 hp) rather than the SNAI owl (Tiny w/ 4 hp), I think that was the main reason that Alagar was having lots of problems, I can go back and burn through a 2nd level spell and go for the 1d3 owls, but I'm certain that he will blast through them, I would almost deem it worthy enough to use a charge of djore on (which would kill all 3 instantly). At that point in time you did not have enough SL to drop your 4th lvl spell to summon more of the Giant version, since you are out of 3rd level slots. If I do this you really only will have 1 SL left and produce flame to fling. 2) I only used one mist due to the fact that I had run out of summon options (considering my posistion stated in #1) and if you can't see Alagar, there really isn't any point in having some mist there. If it had been written in your tactics I would have used mist + CLW wand, but the healing contingency did nothing. 3) True. Just rolled the wand reflex and it passed and takes 1 pt of dmg so you still got it ... I will be revisiting the fight later 4) Actually in the (soon to be rerun version) of the fight that is up I count only 8 useages. One in round 4, and then rounds 14-20 The delay is due to the 10 rounds of Obscuring mist. All of the Owl attacks are with the spiked chain. Rerun Notes: Since the wand will not be broken and it was Alagar's 5th shot at the time, Alagar will probably be switching to a bow. Don't hold me to that, but I'm getting into the ponit where Uilo's tactics have broken down significantly (IMO), and Alagar is shifting to his secondary tactics, Unless he scores a crit here early I will probably put him back on EM duty since it is 'more effective' than his bow, but I will be making my pitlord improv checks.
Traevanon 07-08-06, 10:21 AM	I dunno. Solan the Righteous broiled himself alive in the temple two weeks ago vs. Mssr. Hood. Why shouldn't Eraca fall off a house and break her neck? I'm really just joking. The lava thing was funny, though. Now, I'm not the pitlord here, but I have been A pitlord. If Zevox's character's tactics have completely broken down, it's your job to improvise, with or without Zevox's permission. And it certainly looks like you're doing the balance checks correctly. Another thing of note is that as long as a character is making a balance check on his action, he is denied his Dex to AC whether the check is successful or not unless he has 5 or more ranks in Balance. Even monks lose the benefit of their Dex to AC, though they keep Wis to AC and their Monk AC bonus. Note: wands of grease are suddenly more worthwhile to a rogue... TM Okay, I had to go out and work on the house anyhow so it was a good time to stop. As for being denied Dex, in the round summary for round 11 she isnt climbing anymore... she's on the ground prone. Are you trying to say that if she balances she loses her Dex until her next action? I have one more question. I have been applying Shield (spell) and Force Screen bonuses while both participants are denied their dex, is this appropriate (I think so)? I'm going to have her walk when I get back to the fight later tonight.
Papapeperoni 07-08-06, 10:24 AM	Apparently, Eraca is going for poison on Kendal. At one point she is planning on using a contact poison. If I use Snatch Arrow, I assume I grasp it at the shaft, thus not touching the tip and thus not having to make a fortitude save. I have listed in my tactics that I can Snatch an arrow if needed, so I think (hope) that's what Kendal'll do. I'll probably lose anyway. My tactics weren't adapted to the City map, so I'll just see how it goes. It's not like I've got anything to lose. Greets, --Papapeperoni, God of Pizza's
TheMagister 07-08-06, 12:31 PM	Okay, I had to go out and work on the house anyhow so it was a good time to stop. As for being denied Dex, in the round summary for round 11 she isnt climbing anymore... she's on the ground prone. Are you trying to say that if she balances she loses her Dex until her next action? I have one more question. I have been applying Shield (spell) and Force Screen bonuses while both participants are denied their dex, is this appropriate (I think so)? I'm going to have her walk when I get back to the fight later tonight. Nah, I'd only deny dex while they're actually balancing. It's pretty easy to stay firmly in contact with the ground after you've done a faceplant onto a non-greased area. :) As to the shield and force screen question: they're shield boni. They would apply to AC against all but touch attacks (even incorporeal touch attacks). Being denied your Dex doesn't render your armor or shield any less effective (well, LOGICALLY, it should deny you your shield bonus, since you can't react to interpose your shield between yourself and the incoming blow, but this isn't reality, it's DnD). TM
Zevox 07-08-06, 12:59 PM	I wanted to stop Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs. Kendal Aphos (Papapeperoni) : Traevanon [City] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9575329&postcount=736) at this point (round 11) because I am worried that Zevox did not calculate rooftop movement correctly. I cannot accept tactical advice at this point but if you would like me to improvise from this point or if I am in error about how it works let me know before she kills herself with falling damage. Huh - it appears I forgot about the balance checks to move on those roofs. Blech. I'll have to look into getting her some ranks in that when she takes her one Assassin level. Well, at this point its up to you then. You could have Eraca keep trying until she rolls well enough to get where she wants to go (she has that wand and orders to use it, after all, so she won't kill herself just by falling), or you could have her go stalking on the ground (my tactics do mention that, albeit only after Expeditious Retreat wears off). Your call, I'm fine either way. Apparently, Eraca is going for poison on Kendal. At one point she is planning on using a contact poison. If I use Snatch Arrow, I assume I grasp it at the shaft, thus not touching the tip and thus not having to make a fortitude save. I have listed in my tactics that I can Snatch an arrow if needed, so I think (hope) that's what Kendal'll do. I'd disagree there. Who says the poison was only put on the arrow's tip? The whole point of contact poison is to make sure the target touches it, so it'd only be smart to apply some to the arrow's shaft too. Then again, thats a pitlord call too. (Besides, even if Traevanon agrees with you, you also asked to snatch it if needed, but you have no way of knowing it'd be any more advantageous to grab it than just deflect it without also knowing it has contact poison on it, which you won't.) (well, LOGICALLY, it should deny you your shield bonus, since you can't react to interpose your shield between yourself and the incoming blow, but this isn't reality, it's DnD). With real sheilds that'd be true. With magical ones that are floating alongside you, however, I'd tend to think they don't care if you're able to react or not so long as they are ;) . Zevox
King Uther 07-08-06, 01:13 PM	The djorge charges were used because I didn't want to engage the snake. After the snake is dead, even if Alagar opted for melee, his first attack would deal around 25 damage. I could engage Uilo from the sky, way out of reach of the dog. But if the dog and bag of tricks animal closed and began damaging me, I would kill them via djorge. While certain aspects could be rerun, the djorge deals more damage than the wand, even at half on the average, and all it is going to do is cost us both more money.
MindWandererB 07-08-06, 02:39 PM	Hey, explain Tivik's 25 AC to me? Dex 16 (+3) Full Plate (+8 armor bonus, +1 MAX DEX BONUS) Tower Shield (+4 shield bonus, +2 Max Dex) ----------------------------------------------------- total: +8+4+1+10(base)= 23. Am I missing something, or did Dameon hit a little more? TMAww, crud. I can't believe I missed that. That'll teach me not to audit ECL 3 characters a bit more thoroughly. All right, let me take care of it. Edit: Done. The fight was considerably closer this time. @Hawkeye & mattes: I also caught another mistake I made--I forgot to halve your rewards because there are two of you. That has been corrected. If you have already updated your characters, please be sure to make the change.
MindWandererB 07-08-06, 02:58 PM	I wanted to stop Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs. Kendal Aphos (Papapeperoni) : Traevanon [City] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9575329&postcount=736) at this point (round 11) because I am worried that Zevox did not calculate rooftop movement correctly. I cannot accept tactical advice at this point but if you would like me to improvise from this point or if I am in error about how it works let me know before she kills herself with falling damage.Well, you did make one minor mistake: You had the damage from a 20-foot fall deal 1d6 subdual and 1d6 lethal damage. However, the first 1d6 damage from a fall is converted into nonlethal damage only if thge jump was deliberate, or if the ground is soft (like mud). An accidental fall is all normal damage.
Zevox 07-08-06, 05:20 PM	Gaston vs Perius is up. Close match, and definitely one the dice decided. @ Hawkeye - I still don't have tactics for Ash. I can wait a while, but if I don't have some by monday afternoon he will forfeit due to lacking default ones (which neither of us would like). Zevox
Dracazar 07-08-06, 05:30 PM	1) At the time I used the SNAIII Giant owl (Large w/ 26 hp) rather than the SNAI owl (Tiny w/ 4 hp), I think that was the main reason that Alagar was having lots of problems, I can go back and burn through a 2nd level spell and go for the 1d3 owls, but I'm certain that he will blast through them, I would almost deem it worthy enough to use a charge of djore on (which would kill all 3 instantly). At that point in time you did not have enough SL to drop your 4th lvl spell to summon more of the Giant version, since you are out of 3rd level slots. If I do this you really only will have 1 SL left and produce flame to fling. 2) I only used one mist due to the fact that I had run out of summon options (considering my posistion stated in #1) and if you can't see Alagar, there really isn't any point in having some mist there. If it had been written in your tactics I would have used mist + CLW wand, but the healing contingency did nothing. 3) True. Just rolled the wand reflex and it passed and takes 1 pt of dmg so you still got it ... I will be revisiting the fight later 4) Actually in the (soon to be rerun version) of the fight that is up I count only 8 useages. One in round 4, and then rounds 14-20 The delay is due to the 10 rounds of Obscuring mist. All of the Owl attacks are with the spiked chain. Rerun Notes: Since the wand will not be broken and it was Alagar's 5th shot at the time, Alagar will probably be switching to a bow. Don't hold me to that, but I'm getting into the ponit where Uilo's tactics have broken down significantly (IMO), and Alagar is shifting to his secondary tactics, Unless he scores a crit here early I will probably put him back on EM duty since it is 'more effective' than his bow, but I will be making my pitlord improv checks. 1) Wait, it is ok SNA3, I don't mean to use SNA1, I was only sayng to use another SNA3. And even another SNA3 if able but here I was too hasty in the tactic when I said to replace the wolf with a owl if he is warded againt evil, I would have written to replace the wolf also if Alagar is flying but I forgived to add this. 2) You are right it isn't clearly written, but sometimes you can't write all, I just mean to use mist as concealment versus offensive flying foe. I just say mist+Owl(SNA3) went good, it should be fine to do another mist+Owl(again SNA3), in this way also he can't fire more charges due to concealment 3) Ok, thank you Oh I'm not asking a rerun, it could be too time expensive for you and I don't to bother. Some fixes could be good, then dices will rule the leftover. The djorge charges were used because I didn't want to engage the snake. After the snake is dead, even if Alagar opted for melee, his first attack would deal around 25 damage. I could engage Uilo from the sky, way out of reach of the dog. But if the dog and bag of tricks animal closed and began damaging me, I would kill them via djorge. While certain aspects could be rerun, the djorge deals more damage than the wand, even at half on the average, and all it is going to do is cost us both more money It could be not so easy to kill the snake. The dog could jump and the lion too to catch the flying duergar. Yes it is a money question but at this moment the fight costs 750+720+200=1670 GP to Alagar with a net income of less than 1000 GP, it could become also a negative income with more usage of the djorge charges.
Erithmu 07-08-06, 05:47 PM	1) Wait, it is ok SNA3, I don't mean to use SNA1, I was only sayng to use another SNA3. And even another SNA3 if able but here I was too hasty in the tactic when I said to replace the wolf with a owl if he is warded againt evil, I would have written to replace the wolf also if Alagar is flying but I forgived to add this. 2) You are right it isn't clearly written, but sometimes you can't write all, I just mean to use mist as concealment versus offensive flying foe. I just say mist+Owl(SNA3) went good, it should be fine to do another mist+Owl(again SNA3), in this way also he can't fire more charges due to concealment 3) Ok, thank you Oh I'm not asking a rerun, it could be too time expensive for you and I don't to bother. Some fixes could be good, then dices will rule the leftover. It could be not so easy to kill the snake. The dog could jump and the lion too to catch the flying duergar. Yes it is a money question but at this moment the fight costs 750+720+200=1670 GP to Alagar with a net income of less than 1000 GP, it could become also a negative income with more usage of the djorge charges. 1) You don't have any 3rd level slots left prepared. I see only a spike growth and a call lighting preped. I summoned the wolf because it was still in line with your kill Trillian/Iazar primary tactics. If you had not, I doubt Kitty and Husk would have been able to catch up to them. I am not going to change the Dwolf summoning 2) You have no more 3rd level slots prepared. This is an error on your part (you forgot both a 2nd and 3rd level slot) Now an interesting question becomes do you still use your full spellcasting limit according to the 1/3 rule or do I use the prepared limit. (which would be 7SL now) Rerun: I was going to start the rerun from rnd 17 when the wand doesn't break now. So I really only use 3 rounds of combat. Right now I am working on getting up enough energy to deal with the fight and collect my head around this stuff. and do laundry @All: I would like some feedback on what I should do if a gladiator does not prepare his full allotment of spells in regard for determing allowed spells in an arena per the 1/3 rule
Ravashack 07-08-06, 07:47 PM	Gaston vs Perius is up. Close match, and definitely one the dice decided. @ Hawkeye - I still don't have tactics for Ash. I can wait a while, but if I don't have some by monday afternoon he will forfeit due to lacking default ones (which neither of us would like). Zevox Zevox, you forgot the +1 damage from Surging Euphoria I think on the Crossbow attack. Which means he fails the last Concentration check.
waywreth 07-09-06, 12:34 AM	Zevox, you forgot the +1 damage from Surging Euphoria I think on the Crossbow attack. Which means he fails the last Concentration check. Gaston can blow his focus to take 15 on the last concentration check anyway. No reason not to. Also the psicrystal has improved evasion.
Zevox 07-09-06, 01:06 AM	Zevox, you forgot the +1 damage from Surging Euphoria I think on the Crossbow attack. Which means he fails the last Concentration check. It would appear you're right. I forgot about that ability. Gaston can blow his focus to take 15 on the last concentration check anyway. No reason not to. Can he continue to have his power in effect (via concentrating on it) without his focus though? I'll have to look that up. If he can't, hes lost whether he expends his focus or not. If he can, the result will stand. Also the psicrystal has improved evasion. *shrugs* Doesn't matter ultimately. It had no particular role in the battle. I could roll the save for the second burst to see if it lives if you like, but it makes no difference since this is your third fight. Zevox
bluemage55 07-09-06, 01:32 AM	@All: I would like some feedback on what I should do if a gladiator does not prepare his full allotment of spells in regard for determing allowed spells in an arena per the 1/3 rule Since there are several hours between fights, a wizard can concievably choose to prepare spells in those open slots later: When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of her spells. For the current fight, however, those empty spell slots won't be of any use.
Ravashack 07-09-06, 02:40 AM	Can he continue to have his power in effect (via concentrating on it) without his focus though? I'll have to look that up. If he can't, hes lost whether he expends his focus or not. If he can, the result will stand. Zevox Yes. All Psionic Focus deals with is as a component for psionic and metapsionic feats and taking 15 on Concentration checks. It's not required for maintaining Concentration on powers.
Dracazar 07-09-06, 02:48 AM	1) You don't have any 3rd level slots left prepared. I see only a spike growth and a call lighting preped. I summoned the wolf because it was still in line with your kill Trillian/Iazar primary tactics. If you had not, I doubt Kitty and Husk would have been able to catch up to them. I am not going to change the Dwolf summoning 2) You have no more 3rd level slots prepared. This is an error on your part (you forgot both a 2nd and 3rd level slot) Now an interesting question becomes do you still use your full spellcasting limit according to the 1/3 rule or do I use the prepared limit. (which would be 7SL now) Rerun: I was going to start the rerun from rnd 17 when the wand doesn't break now. So I really only use 3 rounds of combat. Right now I am working on getting up enough energy to deal with the fight and collect my head around this stuff. and do laundry @All: I would like some feedback on what I should do if a gladiator does not prepare his full allotment of spells in regard for determing allowed spells in an arena per the 1/3 rule I was not realizing what you said about spell levels but now I understand, the online sheet doesn't have 2 spells! I really don't know how it could be possible I think perhaps I have edited the 6th level version, bah, really sorry for that problem. This is also the reason for which I talk about three spells for SNA3 and you talk about two. I agree that in situation I should not be allowed to add another chosen spell. Perhaps it could be allowed a spontaneous spell, but it is at your discretion and I agree even if you are against it, it was my fault.
Zevox 07-09-06, 02:53 AM	Yes. All Psionic Focus deals with is as a component for psionic and metapsionic feats and taking 15 on Concentration checks. It's not required for maintaining Concentration on powers. *raises eyebrow* Truly? Would that mean its also not required for manifesting powers? Because I've been under the impression that that was its main function, and fueling feats etc was a secondary benefit if you chose to toss it out. (Looking at the rules, I'm not sure why I thought that, since I can't seem to find anything saying such, but I did.) In any event, with that, the result will stand. Gaston is on his third try manifesting that power, after which he had planned to surrender should he have failed to control Perius, so theres no reason whatsoever to conserve his focus. I'll just edit in the taking 15, increased damage, and altered DC, and things are set. Zevox
Ravashack 07-09-06, 04:36 AM	*raises eyebrow* Truly? Would that mean its also not required for manifesting powers? Because I've been under the impression that that was its main function, and fueling feats etc was a secondary benefit if you chose to toss it out. (Looking at the rules, I'm not sure why I thought that, since I can't seem to find anything saying such, but I did.) In any event, with that, the result will stand. Gaston is on his third try manifesting that power, after which he had planned to surrender should he have failed to control Perius, so theres no reason whatsoever to conserve his focus. I'll just edit in the taking 15, increased damage, and altered DC, and things are set. Zevox Well, if you have 0 PP you can't maintain focus. So while it's not required for manifesting powers, if you can't get focused because of lack of PP you can't exactly manifest powers either (unless you have the Freely Manifest ability of Metaminds).
waywreth 07-09-06, 11:07 AM	As far as I can tell, psionic focus is designed to limit who can take psionic feats, and to limit how often you can use them. As far as powers go, it doesn't really have any use unless you use it to take 15, or have feats that can use it.
Papapeperoni 07-09-06, 11:53 AM	I'm now running the fight between Monsieur Hood and Indrithia Celeth, and I've got a few questions: 1. The (+?, +?) thingies in the round summary, what do they mean? 2. The Stones Monsieur Hood uses (Stone of Pain, Stone of Stalwartness), what are they called, so I can look them up in the SRD? Thanks, --Papapeperoni, God of Pizza's
Pittbull 07-09-06, 11:59 AM	(I didn't look in his charactersheet) 1: This are the coordinates of the map in the summary. 2: These are only roleplay discriptions of his powerstones.
MindWandererB 07-09-06, 05:03 PM	@DSugui & Telin, Re: "Return to Balance": According to the Rules of the Game 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050913a), it is correct that Cat's Grace is not shared: "In spite of the foregoing, some aspects of the master and familiar always remain distinct. The master and familiar have two separate pools of hit points. If the master casts a cure wounds spell, the hit points bestowed must go either to the master or to the familiar. If points are left over after the chosen recipient reaches full hit points, the excess can go to the other pool. In a similar fashion, the master and familiar both have their own ability scores, and magic that enhances or improves an ability score must all go to either the master or the familiar." Keep in mind, though, that the Rules of the Game articles aren't perfect. They each have their own attack bonuses, for instance, and yet spells that grant bonuses to attack can be shared. Unfortunately, we do have a tradition here of following those silly articles.
TelinArtho 07-09-06, 08:38 PM	Well, I certainly hadn't heard about that and there's certainly nothing in the SRD that says that; but yes - we do tend to use the Rules of the Game articles when clarification is needed. I just don't know that it is needed now. I guess I'll ask for an elder ruling on it and just adjust for the future.
DSugui 07-10-06, 07:54 AM	I am having problems with my computer at home, and I might not be able to run my FFA fight. If someone could take that, I will foward the tactics. Thanks.
Traevanon 07-10-06, 09:19 AM	Eraca vs Kendal is up Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9583830&postcount=739) The ruling on Carrion Crawler Brain Juice was irrelevant to the results. I still have to total up Eraca's used items. I'll do that tonight.
TelinArtho 07-10-06, 10:22 AM	I am having problems with my computer at home, and I might not be able to run my FFA fight. If someone could take that, I will foward the tactics. Thanks. I should be able to take care of it - send the tactics to me via PM.
DSugui 07-10-06, 10:54 AM	I should be able to take care of it - send the tactics to me via PM. Thanks, Telin. Tactics forwarded. I will finish your MQ as soon as I can. Sorry for the inconvenience.
TelinArtho 07-10-06, 11:38 AM	Tactics received and fight started. Don't worry about the miniquest - I think I've got a general strategy that will ultimately win the fight for me - though it may take a little while. If you want - just put in the raw numbers and we can flesh it out later.
Zevox 07-10-06, 11:50 AM	Eraca vs Kendal is up Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9583830&postcount=739) The ruling on Carrion Crawler Brain Juice was irrelevant to the results. I still have to total up Eraca's used items. I'll do that tonight. I can help with that. Give me a moment... Eraca used: Scroll of Distorted Vision (1xInvisibility, 1xMirror Image, 1xBlur) [CL 3rd], Scroll of Shield [CL 2nd], 1 use of Ventriloquism [CL 1st] from Scroll, Scroll of Cat's Grace [CL 3rd], 1 use of Expeditious Retreat [CL 2nd] from Scroll, 1 use of Jump [CL 2nd] from Scroll, Scroll of True Strike [CL 1st], 1 Vial of Drow Poison, 1 Vial of Carrion Crawler Brain Juice, and 6 arrows (6 shot, 6 hit). Oh, and from her personal spells she cast Magic Missile (not that it matters since this was her 3rd fight, but you may as well be complete here). (Note: With the arrows, I'm assuming the one deflected one is destroyed just one that hit would be. If I'm wrong that one gets a 50% chance to be recovered.) Pitlord: Since you cannot fire a bow while prone, the last sentence of your "Round X+" tactic is invalid. I will proceed to "Round Y+" On this I should simply note that I wasn't expecting to fire it from prone, merely to stand up or assume a kneeling position (hopefully still being able to hide this way) and fire. Didn't matter ultimately, but oh well. Thanks for the run! Zevox
King Uther 07-10-06, 12:42 PM	@Erithmu I'll stick by whatever happens(assuming no obvious tactical differences or if you decided randomly to disregard rules and give Uilo an Armband of Three Balors*) *An Armband of Three Balors is a fictitious Armband which gives you power over three balors. Almost as powerful as Footbazooka**. **Footbazooka is a fictitious weapon that deals 14d8 damage, can be wielded easily by the foot, and it has proficiency with you, not the other way around. It is the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard, and of course it owns its own Armband of Three Balors. @NiQil I'll be looking at the edit tomorrow morning for your fight. My family has been down all weekend and they're getting on a plane early tomorrow. @Remaining fight I'll be running your fight right after I look at NiQil's.
TelinArtho 07-10-06, 01:34 PM	Ceilia vs Geoffrey vs Lantash (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9591489) is up. Lots of fun here...
Zevox 07-10-06, 03:18 PM	@ Telin - Looks good to me overall. I did notice that you didn't have Ceilia ready to strike when Geoffrey does (idea was to prevent ride for cover), but it doesn't matter with the way the fight turned out. Thanks for picking it up and running it so quickly! Edit: One thing you'll want to edit in that you forgot in the summary, Ceilia cast her memorized Command. @ Hawkeye - I still haven't recieved tactics for Ash. If I don't have them within the next 3 hours, I'm afraid he'll surrender due to lacking default ones, so please send those ASAP! Zevox
TelinArtho 07-10-06, 03:25 PM	@ Telin - Looks good to me overall. I did notice that you didn't have Ceilia ready to strike when Geoffrey does (idea was to prevent ride for cover), but it doesn't matter with the way the fight turned out. Thanks for picking it up and running it so quickly! I meant to include a comment about that, because I can understand what you were hoping for, but what you got was actually much better: [Round 7] Geoffrey falls prone off of Sparky [Dmg 1d6=3] Ceilia drops her lance, draws her sword while maneuvering around Sparky and attacks Geoffrey [11 vs AC21-4=17, miss] Foresight attacks Geoffrey [7 vs AC17, miss] Ceilia 26/26; Shield of Faith (ends 21), Bless (ends 12), mounted --Foresight 21/22; Bless (ends 12) Geoffrey 27/27; prone [Round 8] Geoffrey stands and draws an AoO from both Ceilia and Foresight. [14 vs AC17, miss; Foresight 21 vs AC17, hit; Dmg 1d4+3=4] Geoffrey remounts, drops his lance, quickdraws his axe and attacks [21 vs AC21+2=23, miss] Sparky full attacks Ceilia [20,21,6 vs AC21+2=23, misses] Ceilia attacks Geoffrey [26 vs AC21, hit; Dmg 1d8+3=10] Foresight full attacks [16,23,16 vs AC21+4 [Ride 21 vs DC15, success], misses] Ceilia 26/26; Shield of Faith (ends 21), Bless (ends 12), mounted --Foresight 21/22; Bless (ends 12) Geoffrey 17/27; mounted In round 7, he falls prone from his horse. You have to move around to attack him - and you do - because he's at -4 to his ac from being prone. If you ready here, you'd be waiting for him to remount (which feasibly he might not do - but is pretty much expected), and get him at his regular AC. In round 8, he stands and provokes an AoO from both you and Foresight. Again - you can wait to take the AoO until he tries to remount (because he would be moving), but this way you get him at -4 to his AC.
Erithmu 07-10-06, 03:30 PM	Uilo vs Alagar rerun is up. The only thing that changed is the expendables. Also note to anyone who posted during the down time to make sure you back the fights up so that you can put them up after the reset.
Zevox 07-10-06, 03:34 PM	I meant to include a comment about that, because I can understand what you were hoping for, but what you got was actually much better: In round 7, he falls prone from his horse. You have to move around to attack him - and you do - because he's at -4 to his ac from being prone. If you ready here, you'd be waiting for him to remount (which feasibly he might not do - but is pretty much expected), and get him at his regular AC. In round 8, he stands and provokes an AoO from both you and Foresight. Again - you can wait to take the AoO until he tries to remount (because he would be moving), but this way you get him at -4 to his AC. Ah, but thats why I asked to ready only after he remounted. My tactics said to go ahead and wail on him while he was prone. I didn't overlook what would happen if he failed his will save vs command ;) . Zevox
TelinArtho 07-10-06, 03:47 PM	Ah, but thats why I asked to ready only after he remounted. My tactics said to go ahead and wail on him while he was prone. I didn't overlook what would happen if he failed his will save vs command ;) . Zevox This is another one of those misinterpreting tactics things that I can chalk up to the writer of the tactics (in my opinion). While you may have meant to have your readied action happen each round, except when he has fallen off his horse, it read to me that you wanted to do so only when he was mounting. Yes - I misread it - but if you had included that as a general tactic or even separated it from the command tactic - there probably wouldn't have been a reason for me to relate one to the other. Ironically, had I followed that - it certainly would've been easier for him to heal. Of course, with the way the dice were for him - I don't think Geoffrey was going to get anything from it...
TheMagister 07-10-06, 04:12 PM	As much as I would like to steal the win here, I can't overlook this: Every time Mssr. Hood tries to initiate a grapple, he provokes an AoO from Indri. So, Indri is owed, like, four or five AoOs. I can't believe I forgot to specify to use the vigor stone if I needed healing. Oh, My, Goodness. TM
TelinArtho 07-10-06, 04:25 PM	Quite a few fights left to be run this week. For any that don't include my characters, I am open to picking them up starting at the soft deadline tomorrow. You can preempt this deadline by sending the tactics to me and I will start on fights once the deadline has passed. For any pitlords who have fights remaining, it would be great to have a status - if you have one. LEVEL 3 FIGHTS Ash-Del Oghoth (Hawkeye 60) vs. Farig (TelinArtho) : Zevox [Arena] Still waiting on Ash's tactics Ico Everber (bgt) vs. Reinard Blueriver (DirewolfX) : Huan [Forest] LEVEL 4 FIGHTS Quesis II (Dracazar) vs. Khabil Barukh (Traevanon) : Hawkeye [City] Anakala (TelinArtho) vs. Krug (DSugui) vs. Undertaker (Abyssal Stalker) : bluemage55 [Plains] [All vs All] LEVEL 5 FIGHTS Jonathon Raven (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Dracazar (Dracazar) & Annalina (Zevox) : SauroGrenom [Sewer] [Inter-League] LEVEL 6 FIGHTS Little Daisy (DSugui) vs. Neidr Bresent (bgt) : King Uther [Cavern] Said he will work on it tomorrow Kimahri Ronso (Dr.Funk) vs. Loddick Saffrion (Erithmu) : Abyssal Stalker [City] LEVEL 8 FIGHTS Archdevil Asran (Zevox) vs. Aerryl (MindWandererB) : Iced [Cavern] LEVEL 9 FIGHTS Leif (Sunwolf) vs. Dronnar (DSugui) & Manzarf (Abyssal Stalker) : Caterane
Zevox 07-10-06, 06:47 PM	As much as I would like to steal the win here, I can't overlook this: Every time Mssr. Hood tries to initiate a grapple, he provokes an AoO from Indri. So, Indri is owed, like, four or five AoOs. I can't believe I forgot to specify to use the vigor stone if I needed healing. Oh, My, Goodness. TM Indeed. Though if Indrithia's luck holds out, that probably won't change anything (Hood gets a hit with his psionic shot for near-max damage, but Indrithia's Tanglefoot Bag misses point-black and her Psionic Weapon attack is near-minimum damage :eek: . So much for my thought that her bad luck streak was over...). I'll PM Papapeperoni to make sure he gets this and edits appropriately (since he asks for such in the fight). Zevox
Zevox 07-10-06, 07:05 PM	And to my disappointment, Farig vs Ash is up. *mutters something about the EHTC's treasurey* Zevox
Hawkeye_60 07-10-06, 11:25 PM	I will have to be leaving the CoCo for a time, as I now have to help support my family. As such, I will need someone to take over my fight for this week. I will forward all tactics to them if they wish, or they can get a new set from my gladiators. Thanks. Hawkeye
TelinArtho 07-10-06, 11:29 PM	@Hawkeye - sorry to see you go. I will take the fight off your hands - go ahead and PM the tactics to me.
Zevox 07-11-06, 01:19 AM	Looking at the just-posted tactics for Aerryl vs Asran, I've a question I'd like to pose: Is it possible to cast Magic Fang on a natural weapon you don't have? It seems to me that you should have to pick from among those you have when you cast it, not one you don't possess. Yet Aerryl's tactics include casting it on her "claw" prior to Wild Shaping to gain that claw. Should that be allowed? Zevox
MindWandererB 07-11-06, 01:26 AM	Well, the rules really don't have anything to say on the matter. Obviously, I'm biased. However, I would be okay with choosing my unarmed strike instead, and dealing unarmed strike damage rather than claw damage. Also, an adamantine weapon replaces only the metal parts with adamantine, not the wooden parts. Quoth the SRD, "Items without metal parts cannot be made from adamantine. An arrow could be made of adamantine, but a quarterstaff could not. Only weapons, armor, and shields normally made of metal can be fashioned from adamantine."
Zevox 07-11-06, 01:29 AM	Well, the rules really don't have anything to say on the matter. Obviously, I'm biased. However, I would be okay with choosing my unarmed strike instead, and dealing unarmed strike damage rather than claw damage. Also, an adamantine weapon replaces only the metal parts with adamantine, not the wooden parts. Quoth the SRD, "Items without metal parts cannot be made from adamantine. An arrow could be made of adamantine, but a quarterstaff could not. Only weapons, armor, and shields normally made of metal can be fashioned from adamantine." But there is also the matter that metal-hafted weapons do exist (as revealed by the chart in the sunder rules), so it is possible to have a metal-hafted axe, and thus possible to have an adamantine-hafted axe. Zevox
MindWandererB 07-11-06, 01:36 AM	Except that the example of a two-handed, wood-hafted weapon is the greataxe. In fact, there do not appear to be any two-handed, metal-hafted weapons even listed as possibilities on the chart. Certain weapons have metal hafts, certain ones have wooden ones, and ne'er the twain shall meet.
Zevox 07-11-06, 01:46 AM	Except that the example of a two-handed, wood-hafted weapon is the greataxe. In fact, there do not appear to be any two-handed, metal-hafted weapons even listed as possibilities on the chart. Certain weapons have metal hafts, certain ones have wooden ones, and ne'er the twain shall meet. *raises eyebrow* Example? The only place I found such a chart was the sundering rules, which do not give examples, merely the type of weapon and the hardness/hp. Where did you get this from? Regardless, I'd disagree that its impossible. It seems to me that there should be no reason why any hafted weapon can't have a metal haft. If of course there is a chart such as you mentioned somewhere that would mean the RAW probably won't allow it, in which case I suppose I'll just add that to the list of rules I disagree with and move on. Zevox
MindWandererB 07-11-06, 01:51 AM	I'm looking at the same chart you are, only in the PHB rather than the SRD.
Zevox 07-11-06, 01:57 AM	In that case, a correction for you: the greataxe is listed as the example of a "two handed hafted weapon", and no specification for the type of haft is mentioned. Only light hafted weapons are given seperate entries - I guess larger ones don't have much difference in how hard they are to sunder compared to each other. Thus no rule says that greataxes cannot have metal hafts, or even that they usually have wooden ones. Wait, correction, I just noticed that what I thought was the entries for light wooden and metal hafts is the entries for light and one-handed metal hafts. Strange. Then I suppose you would be right, since non-metal hafts would have to be wooden. *sigh* Added to the list of rules I disagree with then. Zevox
Dracazar 07-11-06, 08:55 AM	Uilo vs Alagar rerun is up. The only thing that changed is the expendables. Also note to anyone who posted during the down time to make sure you back the fights up so that you can put them up after the reset. It would be nice to see three (repeat three) of my beasts defend the master (that is also default command) There was a Lion (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/monsters/LION.html), a Dire wolf (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/monsters/DIRE_ANIMAL.html#wolf) (with both 10' space, 5' reach) and the riding dog animal companion. All of these beast could also jump but they were stand still. I agree with your comment that Uilo should do better against flying foes but I think it could be used also the land animals.
Erithmu 07-11-06, 09:26 AM	The reason I had them separated is that they would have been within range of the EM and I would be shooting down another one of your allies. Dwolf disappears in round 11 but since he was a non factor at that point I didn't think about him. The problem really is that you are unconcious before they would ever get a chance to attack since they can not move as part of an AoO (which jumping would be). Alagar does not draw an AoO either as he has reach and is flying. The other part would be that he could basically kill Husk as well and you would not have Husk for your next two fights. As it is you don't have Pyto. Fight stands as is
SauroGrenom 07-11-06, 09:57 AM	Zevoz, Drac and Abbysal Stalker I'm working on the fight now. It will hopefully be finished in a few hours. Sorry for the delay. I think our pairings this week is dealyed till tomarrow anyway due to the boards update. Thanks for your patience. Sauro
TelinArtho 07-11-06, 10:10 AM	Here's some updated statuses LEVEL 3 FIGHTS Ico Everber (bgt) vs. Reinard Blueriver (DirewolfX) : Huan [Forest] LEVEL 4 FIGHTS Anakala (TelinArtho) vs. Krug (DSugui) vs. Undertaker (Abyssal Stalker) : bluemage55 [Plains] [All vs All] - tactics posted - no status yet LEVEL 5 FIGHTS Jonathon Raven (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Dracazar (Dracazar) & Annalina (Zevox) : SauroGrenom [Sewer] [Inter-League] -- working on it now LEVEL 6 FIGHTS Little Daisy (DSugui) vs. Neidr Bresent (bgt) : King Uther [Cavern] Said he will work on it tomorrow Kimahri Ronso (Dr.Funk) vs. Loddick Saffrion (Erithmu) : Abyssal Stalker [City] LEVEL 8 FIGHTS Archdevil Asran (Zevox) vs. Aerryl (MindWandererB) : Iced [Cavern] -- tactics posted- but nothing else yet. LEVEL 9 FIGHTS Leif (Sunwolf) vs. Dronnar (DSugui) & Manzarf (Abyssal Stalker) : Caterane --appears to be working on it now.
Papapeperoni 07-11-06, 10:33 AM	Monsieur Hood versus Indrithia Celeth is finally up. I edited my mistake about the grapples and someone got lucky here, finishing the fight with 2 hp left for half of the match. It was a fun and easy match to pitlord, thanks for the support, and that'll be all --Papapeperoni
Caterane 07-11-06, 10:55 AM	Please don't forget to save your fight on your disc just in case. Today's the upgrade.
TelinArtho 07-11-06, 11:31 AM	Quesis II vs Khabil Barukh (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9597581) is up. Quick and dirty...
Traevanon 07-11-06, 11:47 AM	Ouch, he hit me for 20. I almost pulled it out though. Nice fight.
SauroGrenom 07-11-06, 11:52 AM	Jon vs Anna and Drac is done!
Zevox 07-11-06, 12:30 PM	@ Sauro - Looks pretty good to me, though I wonder how Jonathan ever managed to get close to Annalina when he had a speed of 20 (10' in water) vs a speed of 60' (30' in water). Ah well, all things considered it doesn't matter. Theres only two errors to point out: first, Blindness gives a fortitude save, not a will save. Fortunately Annalina rolled high enough that even her pitiful fortitude save succeeds, so no need to alter that. Second, Annalina only used 1 pp - shes only a 1st-level Wilder, so she couldn't augment her vigor if she tried. The 2nd pp was provided for free by her Wild Surge. Thanks for the run! Maybe I'll see if I can figure out the rewards. @ Papapeperoni - Looks good to me now. I was afraid Indrithia's chronic bad luck would cause her to lose even here, but looks like I was mistaken. Thanks for getting the edit up in time! Zevox
SauroGrenom 07-11-06, 12:49 PM	Second, Annalina only used 1 pp - shes only a 1st-level Wilder, so she couldn't augment her vigor if she tried. The 2nd pp was provided for free by her Wild Surge.Enervation hit her and used up an extra pp. So you used 1pp to manifest the power using wildsurge and lost an extra 1pp due to enervation.
Caterane 07-11-06, 01:20 PM	Fight can be found here.
King Uther 07-11-06, 01:32 PM	Igg vs Ivan partial rerun is complete. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9572409&postcount=733) Really, only three things changed: 1. An arrow shot did not confirm due to cover+range 2. Igg's first attack connected due to the ability to charge(barely) 3. The outcome due to those two factors EDIT: The edit will be reposted tomorrow night after work.
Abyssal Stalker 07-11-06, 01:40 PM	Jon vs Anna and Drac is done! I think that you ignored an important part of my tactics, hoping to use the potions of CLW to heal if dropped under 15hp. Jonathon has a way to heal, you probably just missed the 5 potions on his sheet.
Abyssal Stalker 07-11-06, 01:44 PM	I'm sorry but I won't be ablöe to run the fight Kimahri vs Ignatius. Here's the tactics ok a new tactic this time. kimahri will start closest to the center of the city with his bow in hand. Kimahri will draw an animal from the bag of Tricks Bear: move in to melee as fast as possible and do full attacks Lion: move in and Pounce on Loddick. Heavy Warhorse: hopefully i dont get it but do the same as the bear Tiger: same as Lion Rhino: Hopfeully i can ge the Rhino. the Rhino will look for him and do a powerfull Charge i Want the Animals to do the attacking. While Kimahri will try and Hide/Move Silently. And use the Bow when Loddick sees/attacking the Animal. i knew a 6 Cha was a bad idea. *%$#!&@ Ego whip Thanks for running the fight Stalker, I don't think this should be too hard when I have 20 pp and I'm on my last week Goal: Ego whip for the win Open: Start forward corner nothing in hand 1pp Skate from memory and move 5pp vigor, continue to move. 1pp Force screen continue to move. Movement: For movement take the left hand path and move the center quickly. I am going to assume that he will use the Bag. I should only need 2 ego whips to pull this off, but then the dice are fickle. I know that for a moment I will be in the middle where I am in the open before I know where he is, if you have to use a run move (x4 speed) to duck down an alley way to play cat and mouse. Vs the bag I can out run any of the creatures (except the Horse) so do so, loop around some of the buildings so that ditch the creatures and get back to Kimahri. - DO NOT let the lion or the tiger pounce for any reason. - vs the horse use the withdraw action to get away and then don’t allow it to charge me. I would rather have it keep double moving to base me than get a charge attempt - If the critters are being highly annoying use an electric energy stun and then move away using avoidance. Pressing the attack: If I have a critter following, try to prevent a charge and then ego whip Kimahri. If I have to choose who charges me, allow Kimahri and hope he fails his dazed save. Critter Grapple: Expend my focus for an elec energy stun and then move to cover while it is stunned If you have any questions please PM before you run the fight so that I can address them over PM instead of in the FotW thread -Rith
TelinArtho 07-11-06, 02:03 PM	I'll grab it.
Zevox 07-11-06, 02:46 PM	Enervation hit her and used up an extra pp. So you used 1pp to manifest the power using wildsurge and lost an extra 1pp due to enervation. Ah, missed that, sorry. Though I'm not sure the power would still be manifested if she was enervated... doesn't matter though, since she never got hit. Zevox
MindWandererB 07-11-06, 02:50 PM	The power still goes off on an enervation. You just lose PP and are dazed for a round.
Zevox 07-11-06, 03:09 PM	Okay, here would be the rewards/wrap-up for Annalina & Dracazar vs Jonathan: Annalina and Dracazar win! They gain 900 xp and 900 gp each. (1,800 xp/gp divided by 2 characters.) The EHTC gains 135 gp from Annalina and the TAO gains the same from Dracazar. Jonathan loses. He gains 500 xp and 530 gp. (750 xp each times 2 foes divided by 3 for loss, multiply that by 1.06 for the gp.) The EHTC gains 63 gp from him. Annalina Vale Fight 1 Time Between Fights: 3 hrs Prebuffs/Ongoing Effects: None. Items Used: Powerstone of Force Screen [ML 2nd], 1 use of Expeditious Retreat [CL 2nd] from scroll, Powerstone of Offensive Precognition [ML 1st], 1 arrow (1 shot, 1 hit). Spells or Powerpoints Used: 2 pp and 1 Bard cantrip (0 SL). x/day Abilities Used: None. Free Activity: Perform (Haunting Flute) for 57 gp. Dracazar Fight 2 Time Between Fight: 3 hrs Prebuffs/Ongoing Effects: None. Items Used: Scroll of Mage Armor, Scroll of Shield, Scroll of Protection from Evil, 2 Scrolls of Shocking Grasp. Spells or Powerpoints Used: Color Spray and Shocking Grasp (2 SL) x/day Abilities Used: None. Free Activity: Craft (Jewelry) for 72 gp. Jonathan Raven Fight 3 Time Between Fight: 3 hrs Prebuffs/Ongoing Effects: None. Items Used: Scroll of Protection from Good, Scroll of Protection from Evil. Spells or Powerpoints Used: Blindness, Comand (3 SL). x/day Abilities Used: None. Free Activity: Guarding. @ Abyssal - Probably doesn't matter. Annalina's crit will still hit him for 9, and if that isn't enough to down him after the healing Dracazar will be firing a Magic Missile that almost certainly will. All it could do is cost you a potion and Dracazar a spell. Zevox
King Uther 07-11-06, 05:01 PM	Daisy vs Neidr is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9599347&postcount=750) Could've easily gone either way.
DSugui 07-11-06, 05:37 PM	Daisy vs Neidr is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9599347&postcount=750) Could've easily gone either way. Wow! Closer than I though... Improved Natural attack for Athena really paid off today... Just one thing: Daisy used a scroll of Bear's Endurance, not from memory. This has little effect in the fight (the spell expires in the last round, but Daisy still has hp enough to survive Neidr's last attack).
Iced 07-11-06, 06:47 PM	Asran vs Aerryl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9595660&postcount=743) is finished, but i'm not sure if the rewards are right.
MindWandererB 07-11-06, 07:06 PM	Asran vs Aerryl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9595660&postcount=743) is finished, but i'm not sure if the rewards are right. I'm having a hard time following it, but there seem to be a large number of missing attacks. I can spot no more than one attack from Aerryl in any round, but she has a claw/claw/bite routine. Since you used neither coordinates nor maps, I cannot tell if this is because she moved. Be sure to put this on the new boards. The rewards are indeed wrong; if both characters have allies, they cancel out. Asran gets -8.33% and Aerryl gets +8.33%.
SauroGrenom 07-11-06, 10:03 PM	I'm tryig to post the fight for Jon, Anna and Drac in the fight thread, but it's not working. Anyway I thought I should tell Abyssal that I put in a healing and there was only 2HP restored by the CLW potions. It wasn't enough to save you from getting hit by the rapier and falling unconcious. You still loose using 1 extra CLW potion.
Zevox 07-11-06, 10:07 PM	Asran vs Aerryl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9595660&postcount=743) is finished, but i'm not sure if the rewards are right. Just one note which doesn't matter: Asran's Prot. Evil potion would prevent the summoned bat from striking him, since Prot. Evil protects him from any non-good summons, not just evil ones. Anyway, if you can look into MWB's issues, please do. I'd rather like this to be totally resolved so Asran can start questing tomorrow. @ Sauro - I realized while I was away that my rewards tally was wrong. It failed to account for Jonathan's mount. I'll recalculate that in a moment and post it. Edit: Actual rewards - Annalina/Dracazar 975 xp/gp each. EHTC and TAO get 146 gp. Jonathan 458 xp 485 gp. EHTC gets 58 gp. Zevox
TelinArtho 07-11-06, 11:12 PM	Loddick vs Kimahri is up. A tough fight - but someone had to do it... In any case, time to get some rest. That fight took in the order of 4 hours to run...
bluemage55 07-12-06, 12:27 AM	Anakala vs. Kreg Butcher vs.the Undertaker has been up for a few hours, but I forgot to post here. Please point out mistakes or other issues as needed.
Abyssal Stalker 07-12-06, 12:30 AM	@bluemage: I'm sorry but I can't accept the fight at all. You didn't get anywhere near using my tactics, but just improvised everything. I can't understand why Undertaker didn't turn invisible like I asked you to do. This is of great importance and probably changes the whole fight. Last week when you ran Jonathon's fight I didn't bother to complain about not following tactics, but I can't take this anymore.
TelinArtho 07-12-06, 01:17 AM	As for me, I need to know specifically whether the elemental died or stabilized - since he wouldn't be available for next fight if he didn't. Despite popular belief, elementals can go into negative hp and can stabilize. You also need to account for the adjustment to everyone's rewards because I brought in 2 CR1 allies (which is a 25% penalty for me; 12.5% bonus to each of my opponents).
Iced 07-12-06, 01:35 AM	I'm having a hard time following it, but there seem to be a large number of missing attacks. I can spot no more than one attack from Aerryl in any round, but she has a claw/claw/bite routine. Since you used neither coordinates nor maps, I cannot tell if this is because she moved. Be sure to put this on the new boards. The rewards are indeed wrong; if both characters have allies, they cancel out. Asran gets -8.33% and Aerryl gets +8.33%. rewards and fight mistake fixed. Same ending, but it was closer.
bluemage55 07-12-06, 01:35 AM	@bluemage: I'm sorry but I can't accept the fight at all. You didn't get anywhere near using my tactics, but just improvised everything. I can't understand why Undertaker didn't turn invisible like I asked you to do. This is of great importance and probably changes the whole fight. Last week when you ran Jonathon's fight I didn't bother to complain about not following tactics, but I can't take this anymore. Undertaker took his first action as you asked: mage armor. As for his second action, you specified a contingency to combat the air elementals if they were troublesome. If the air elementals are of trouble, kill them with the scroll of scorching ray and magic missiles. Does not being flanked and critical hit by them count as "trouble"? As for me, I need to know specifically whether the elemental died or stabilized - since he wouldn't be available for next fight if he didn't. Despite popular belief, elementals can go into negative hp and can stabilize. You also need to account for the adjustment to everyone's rewards because I brought in 2 CR1 allies (which is a 25% penalty for me; 12.5% bonus to each of my opponents). Hmm. Wasn't aware of the former. Both will be fixed.
DSugui 07-12-06, 02:08 AM	Well, since I won, I won't complain. But there is a point I want to address: In my tactics I clearly stated "Try to trip her in the first attack, then drop the guisarme, draw the great sword and attack until death." Given your comment in the end of the battle, I suppose you missed that. No big deal, though, so no need to change. One more thing: Krug used also a tattoo of Vigor and a potion of Shield of Faith taht you didn't include in the summary.
Abyssal Stalker 07-12-06, 03:11 AM	Undertaker took his first action as you asked: mage armor. As for his second action, you specified a contingency to combat the air elementals if they were troublesome. Does not being flanked and critical hit by them count as "trouble"? If you just would read my tactics more carefully, you'd probably notice that the line you have quoted was the alst thing left in my tactics and meant to be used after I had used the invisibility. You didn't even consider using my plan, which was going invisible and then moving near my main opponents, letting them fight each other. If you just would've used the invisibility spell, I wouldn't have been under Krug's bombing and the air elementals. Krug would have no chance to shoot at me and would be forced to combat Anakala and the air elementals would have really hard times finding an invisible opponent from the open plains. It seems odd that you didn't even consider this. Even more, there is the contingency to use cause fear to drive away melee opponents. I think that you really need to read tactics more carefully and consider carefully the situation and not just stick to one sentence in the tactics. I don't usually complain about improvisation if the situation calls for it and generally try to accept the decisions pitlord makes. I just feel that I'm being ignored and that you are deciding what is best for me.
bluemage55 07-12-06, 03:45 AM	Given that you feel so strongly about the fight, I will rerun it as my spare time will permit me. For the moment, I have sleep, and then work, and then a summer course to attend afterwards, but I will begin working on a rerun at 4 pm Pacific time.
Traevanon 07-12-06, 08:32 AM	@Bluemage: I didnt think that the elementals were allowed to start at 20' altitude. I thought you had to start at 0'. Fortunately they didnt use double descending movement to run all the way to base in the first round. @Telin: The rewards for Khabil in my fight are too high. Please adjust when you get a chance. I have used the proper 1/3 reward on my sheet.
bgt 07-12-06, 09:05 AM	@King Uther-I have just one problem with the fight-Neidr is a girl. Four times in that fight you refered to her as a "he". There was one point when you used the correct gender, but then went back to "he" later in the sentence. Yes, I know, this doesn't really matter, but you're not the first person to do this and it's kinda been getting on my nerves. Ya hear that everyone? Neidr is a girl! A GIRL! Also @King Uther-Thanks for running the fight, ya did good.
TelinArtho 07-12-06, 09:20 AM	@Bluemage: I didnt think that the elementals were allowed to start at 20' altitude. I thought you had to start at 0'. Fortunately they didnt use double descending movement to run all the way to base in the first round. @Telin: The rewards for Khabil in my fight are too high. Please adjust when you get a chance. I have used the proper 1/3 reward on my sheet. On your fight - I have fixed it. As to the starting at 20ft altitude - yeah - it doesn't make a difference though since they have perfect flight and he hadn't used the dive speed.
bluemage55 07-12-06, 04:34 PM	@Abyssal Stalker, DSugui, and TelinArtho. I have rerun the fight as per Abyssal Stalker's request. After the Undertaker died, I just kept the results from before, and most of the fight remains the same. Krug should have fired once on Anakala, but I chose not to add that since it had a minimal chance of hitting anyway, and since Krug still wins. The changes are as follows: The Undertaker: did not use his scorching ray scroll. Used invisibility from memory. TelinArtho: both elementals are alive and at full life. Sorry Abyssal Stalker, but the win/lose order was the same.
King Uther 07-12-06, 10:58 PM	I do that sometimes. My bad. When I repost the fight I'll edit it. Also, my fight is still up. Does that mean the changes haven't happened yet?
Zevox 07-13-06, 11:02 AM	@ King Uther - The changes have happened, and the new forums are up here (http://community.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=483). These ones will be shut down eventually, and will soon become read-only. Zevox
Book5 07-14-06, 04:51 PM	I assume that my characters were skipped in pairings because of this crazy boards behaving badly issue.. drat! Oh, well - they are set to ready now! They should be picked up in next weeks sweep right?