Post/Author/DateTime	Post
waywreth 06-15-06, 10:48 AM	Fights of the Week: June 14th (15th) Sheets Deadline for editing characters sheets is 21:00 CET. Central European Time (http://wwp.centraleuropeantime.eu/) shows the time. Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions. Pairings GM Caterane will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Make sure that your character is not in Prison (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571107&goto=lastpost). Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need, there is a nice Template ready to use that will help. You could find very useful the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps, You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. Other useful links are Skills and Feats, Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't attack pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play and above all, have FUN! Latest News Allies must be pre-buffed effective since April 19th Polymorph and Metamorphosis changes effective since April 19th THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE NOW IN EFFECT The Battles of Gladius - The 3-Fight Cycle (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466621) The Cap on Expendables (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466659) Pre-Fight Actions (Pre-Buffs): Preparing for Combat! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466659) If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
TelinArtho 06-15-06, 11:03 AM	My first week back and I don't even have anyone fighting in the arena - go figure. Here's to good luck for my two miniquests for Faelto and Sir Valkin; and here's to special good luck for Kraegin in order to further Denth's plans before Sdentch and Auburn leave next week.
Pitlords 06-15-06, 11:21 AM	Awesome Introduction Waywreth! :thumbsup: We will possibly (~90% chance) see the first week of Random Arenas now that Dracazar's mapmaker is updated. I will add a new tag behind each pairing which shows where you fight. In case of Monster fights, Pitlords should reroll if they get a monster that has no chance to defeat the character (eg cannot attack flyer; cannot catch fast character; basically: cannot defeat character). This is now possible in Monster fights on maps with a high ceiling. Please make sure that your Expendable Cap is set and you have no more expendables than allowed. Also write the Fight you're in into the title line. It's Fight 1 for everyone but we should practise it nethertheless. Also New: Pitlords have to add used spells and abilities in the summary. Another thing to note is the 9 PM CET is one hour earlier than our regular deadline and two hours before GMT so make sure you don't edit late. Thanks
Zevox 06-15-06, 11:25 AM	Random maps this week? About time :w00t: ! Though may I suggest leaving the Sewer out of it, since Dracazar hasn't put it in the mapper yet? Zevox
Pitlords 06-15-06, 12:00 PM	Will be fixed by Drac on time ;) Another thing: can someone finish the table Usurpator began for the new XP/GP ratio? I'll give a credit for that.
SoulLord 06-15-06, 01:21 PM	Quick question. how do we write our free activities for the 3 fight cicle? week 1 guard week 2 scribe scroll week 3 use forgery ???
waywreth 06-15-06, 01:38 PM	Quick question. how do we write our free activities for the 3 fight cicle? week 1 guard week 2 scribe scroll week 3 use forgery??? You can edit your character after each week, you just don't get to buy things (or reset spells/items used). So, set it to whatever you want to do for the week it is.
Macbrea 06-15-06, 02:03 PM	So, here is a silly question. Since, we can only buy once per three weeks. Is the black market use of the gather information skill cumulative over the three week period of time you build up to use it?
Zevox 06-15-06, 02:05 PM	So, here is a silly question. Since, we can only buy once per three weeks. Is the black market use of the gather information skill cumulative over the three week period of time you build up to use it? I'd presume using Gather Information would work much the same way crafting free activities do - you get to use it as normal, but only get the item(s) after the cycle is complete. Zevox
Ariel23 06-15-06, 02:22 PM	@pitlords In case my PM was lost in the transition, I would like to take one fight this week. If the new boxes were up, I'd just resend it (50 PM max for Cat!).
TelinArtho 06-15-06, 02:34 PM	Since this is my first week back - please do get your tactics in early. I will also try out the CoCo dice roller for the first time, perhaps even the dynamic maps! Regardless - be patient with me whilst I reacquaint myself with all the rules.
bluemage55 06-15-06, 02:57 PM	Question: I have an as-of-yet unfinished miniquest with Mitza Volenchko as the QL, do I still prepare my character sheet for this week's fight?
TelinArtho 06-15-06, 03:00 PM	No - you can't edit your sheet until the quest is finished. That being said - if Mitza disappears for more than just this week - I would declare the quest as abandoned or find another questlord to finish it for you - if you were almost done. Mitza's disappearance was quite sudden - I hope everything is alright on her front.
Pitlords 06-15-06, 03:11 PM	@Bluemage: Since it's a CEF quest I'll take over. Mitza has again problems with her account. She'll be back next week with either a fixed or a new account.
MindWandererB 06-15-06, 03:15 PM	Will be fixed by Drac on time ;)Yup, the sewer is in the mapper. No problems there. @Telin: Wow, I forgot you left before the dynamapper. You're missing out. I only started running fights after Dracazar created it, and I have no idea how you guys lived without it. @Dracazar: I know you're still lurking around on occasion, so I hope you'll read this: is it possible to create an extra copy of the Movement calculator on the top of the map? Some of the new maps (arena, city, plains, forest) are so large that I can't place pins near the top and keep the calculator on my screen at the same time.
Pitlords 06-15-06, 04:10 PM	The following quests cannot start because I didn't receive any information about them: Raskos the Jade Father (SauroGrenom) : Ready For Quest ECL9: Starting June 14th with Stormwind Kraegin (TelinArtho) : Ready June 14, 2006 Quest (QL Uther) EL7 I have long ago decided that I ignore such things but since it's a long time that we had pairings I'll make an exception. Send me the information by PM asap. Please understand that it costs me a lot of time to send out PMs and ask for clarifications. That especially bad during pairings time when I have a lot of other things to think about.
TelinArtho 06-15-06, 04:19 PM	@Telin: Wow, I forgot you left before the dynamapper. You're missing out. I only started running fights after Dracazar created it, and I have no idea how you guys lived without it. Actually - it was already there - I just elected to not use it. At the time I was extremely familiar with the arena maps and it was easy for me to use coordinates. Combine that with the fact that it was more convenient to do the fights without a 10th+ window open... I just never bothered. Since the new maps don't have the "nice" text based equivalents, I'll be using his map generator to help make sure I don't lose track of things. The map generator as a whole though - actually slows me down a fair amount (just from trying it - its not as intuitive as I wanted it to be. It'll get better as I become more familiar though).
Pitlords 06-15-06, 05:48 PM	PAIRINGS DONE Credit Changes: +7: Caterane +6: DSugui +5: Erithmu +4: King Uther, Vathelokai, Myrridin +3: Iced +2: Huan, SauroGrenom, Zevox, Stormwind +1: Ariel, Mindwanderer, Waywreth +0: NiQil -1: TelinArtho, MitzaVolchenko Comments: Please read waywreth's top post for information on the new changes. I have made a new layout for the pairings. With the new tags there's a lot of text inside this post. I now use lists and sup tags to not lose the overview. There are still two miniquests left. Is there anyone who wants these? They're ECL 3 and should be easy to run. Request tactics if necessary.
Erithmu 06-15-06, 06:39 PM	@MindwandererB: Aerryl vs Random Monster prefight is setup. Please note your location.
Zevox 06-15-06, 06:46 PM	Only 4 EHTC members active, and 3 are mine... *sigh* @ Pitlords - Eh, we have a little problem with the pairings: Sunstroke (MindWandererB) vs. Zero (MindwandererB) : Zevox I don't think MWB can be fair writing tactics there, do you? ;) @ My players/pitlords - I've got some yardwork to do, but I should have tactics for Destra and Annalina away tonight, as well as the monster fight for Micah set up. Whether I get tactics for Indrithia away will depend on when her setup is posted. I'll send Iced some basic info about Asran's MQ as soon as I finish that yardwork too. Zevox
Pitlords 06-15-06, 06:56 PM	Blaergh (TelinArtho) vs. Zero (MindwandererB) : Vathelokai [Forest] Sunstroke (MindWandererB) vs. Loquan Dar'ath (waywreth) : Zevox [Plains]
SoulLord 06-15-06, 06:57 PM	@DSugui Tactics for Ten Vermond (Soullord) vs. Annalina Vale (Zevox) : DSugui [Plains] sent.
MindWandererB 06-15-06, 07:45 PM	@MindwandererB: Aerryl vs Random Monster prefight is setup. Please note your location. Monsters: 3 Medium sized somethings (no relevant Knowledge skills)"Somethings?" Surely you can do better than that... it doesn't help that I don't own the 3.5 DMG.
Sindorin 06-15-06, 07:55 PM	Tactics for Seaendithas sent to King Uther... somebody missed the memo about the Expendable Cap. 4,172.5 gp worth of expendables is pretty high for a 5th level character.
Zevox 06-15-06, 08:19 PM	Blaergh (TelinArtho) vs. Zero (MindwandererB) : Vathelokai [Forest] Sunstroke (MindWandererB) vs. Loquan Dar'ath (waywreth) : Zevox [Plains] Yes! I didn't get Zero this week :D ! *looks at arena* Ouch... my sympathies Vath. Zero in the forest is just... ouch. @ DarthVegan - Micah's monster fight is set up here. Edit: I've also posted a group of minor violations you'll want to fix up afterwards here. @ Iced - Info for Asran's MQ has been PMed. Zevox
Zevox 06-15-06, 09:42 PM	@ MindWandererB - Tactics for Sunstroke recieved, thank you. @ MWB & Waywreth - It looks to me that with the recent forgery clarification Loquan's Druid isn't legal, since he can't use an ally over his max CA even with forgery, and Loquan's ECL 5 Druid is over his max CA of 4. Stinks, since that makes half the idea behind Loquan useless, but theres nothing for it. @ DSugui - Tactics for Annalina (vs Ten) have been sent. Zevox
Macbrea 06-15-06, 10:29 PM	@DSugui - Izumi's Tactics have been sent. No real suprises there! Have fun.
Traevanon 06-15-06, 10:30 PM	Just thought I'd mention: I'm set to pitlord a fight but no credits are listed for me. Also Khabil is doing a full activity (making armor and a shield) but is set to be in a Hunter fight. I can be in the fight, that's fine but if its not legal for me to make mwk full plate and fight at the same time, I'll just wait to craft the armor until next week.
Zevox 06-15-06, 10:32 PM	@ DarthVegan - Tactics for Micah recieved, thank you. I'll run that fight tomorrow morning. Zevox
NiQil 06-15-06, 10:33 PM	@ Traevanon: Tactics for Pestilence sent via PM @ SauroGrenom: Tactics for War in the oreo battle sent via PM. For those that don't get the reference, War gets to be the middle between a druid sandwich. @ DSugui and Zevox: May all of your allies die horrible tragic deaths LOL. @ Caterane: Tactics for Famine & Death forthcoming, pending your post of the monsters that I see (cause I have no knowledges that will help narrow it down)
TelinArtho 06-15-06, 10:59 PM	Dronnar vs Alagar (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9401299) is up. Lots of fun there. Comment about the dice roller: It seems to be a little faster and intuitive, now that I've used it a little. I will continue to use it in the future most likely, assuming it remains consistent. I'm not too impressed with my ability on the map maker - though I admit it is nice. Not sure what to say about it though - so I'll keep fiddling with it and try to figure out what exactly is my problem with it.
Traevanon 06-15-06, 11:05 PM	Pestilence (NiQil) tactics recieved. Both characters recorded and verified for editing, but not yet checked. My tactics will be in tomorrow sometime, probably first thing in the morning.
DarthVegan 06-15-06, 11:09 PM	@Zevox: Tactics sent for Micah vs monster via PM
Zevox 06-16-06, 12:17 AM	@ SauroGrenom - Tactics for Destra Stormwind (vs War vs Little Daisy) sent via PM. I don't know who I feel more sorry for - War for getting paired with two Druids, or Destra for having fully half of her fights thus far be FFAs :( . Zevox
King Uther 06-16-06, 01:09 AM	Thank you Telin. All of my characters are off this week because they all need to be edited. So if Alagar is not ready by next week, audit him like he's never been audited before. Virgo is in the same boat, although he is frozen(but wants to quest for his leadership ally, any takers?) Tactics received from Sindorin and no one else. Fights will be run during the weekend. Hopefully they read as following: Round 1: RUN towards other starting squares, trying to engage opponent. Round 2: If opponent spotted, charge them and attack. Otherwise, RUN towards other starting square Round 3: If opponent is not spotted, commit seppuku. If opponent is spotted, roll d20 until one of us is dead. Feel free to copy and paste.
Sindorin 06-16-06, 01:35 AM	Just out of curiosity, how are we handling characters who violate the expendable cap? Edit: oh, sorry if mine were a bit long, KU. I really wasn't sure what to do with the new map.
Erithmu 06-16-06, 01:47 AM	"Somethings?" Surely you can do better than that... it doesn't help that I don't own the 3.5 DMG. Actually .. that is a pretty darn accurate descriptions ... I am away from my MM but I have the SRD pic ... and ... well ... 'something' is about as descriptive as I can get. If it helps ... non-humanoid
King Uther 06-16-06, 01:47 AM	No worries. As long as they make sense all is good.
Sindorin 06-16-06, 01:51 AM	umm... uh oh hehe
Iced 06-16-06, 03:38 AM	I need pms from my miniquesters with ideas about your quests otherwise you're at the tender mercy of my whims... :evillaugh ~Iced
Vathelokai 06-16-06, 05:02 AM	Bleargh (TelinArtho) vs Zero (MindWandererB) [ECL6] is up. Nothing special there... working on a story to make up for it, but I cannot promise anything.
MindWandererB 06-16-06, 05:41 AM	@Erithmu, Pittbull, & SauroG: Tactics have been sent, received, and received, respectively. I probably won't be able to run the fight before Monday, my apologies. I'll see what I can do.
Pittbull 06-16-06, 05:52 AM	@MindWandererB: Yeah, as you said, the tactic has been sent. Take your time with the fight, there's no need to hurry, Thanks a lot!
Ravashack 06-16-06, 05:54 AM	Tactics sent in to King Uther via email.
Pitlords 06-16-06, 07:07 AM	@Traevanon: Sorry, I just missed to list it. You got your credit. No takers for the Miniquests? Shouldn't be too difficult.
Stormwind 06-16-06, 07:31 AM	@Caterane: Tactics for Cyra vs Unknown monster sent via PM. (I know you haven't posted the monster description yet but no worries.) @Sauro: I won't have internet for the next 48 hours so I'll be a little late getting your quest up. I'll have it up on Sunday afternoon Finnish time (GMT+2). Sorry about the delay.
Pitlords 06-16-06, 07:41 AM	Copied from Comments & Concerns thread: Please check my credits. I am pitlording a fight but not listed on the credit roster. I think I should be recieving 1. Khabil Barukh was set to do a full activity (make Mwk Plate) but is assigned to a Hunter match. I am willing to do the match but I am concerned that I will not be able to make any purchases, including the Mwk Plate and Mwk Tower Shield, until the entire cycle is over. Did I set my title wrong? I'm not certain how to set a title for a full activity. Ah, Full Action. It's Full Activity. I have to read the title lines fast and I'm attuned to the correct wording so I might miss that. Still, my bad. Unfortunately, Macbrea has already sent tactics for this fight so here's what we do: you fight normally but I'll add your crafting to the pairings post which you then basically get for free. You may also use it from next fight on. I will post this on the FotW thread so that you have a reference should a pitlord point to your crafts. Please use the standard title lines, foundable in the rules and the prison.
SauroGrenom 06-16-06, 08:09 AM	I recieved tactics from everyone for the 3 way FFA fight. I'm traveling this saturday, and I typicially get my fights done on saturday. So I'll start running this one on sunday night. Depending on how long it takes to run, it will be done sunday night or monday night.
Caterane 06-16-06, 08:15 AM	A board investigation revealed that Biko111 and Creole and Jihad are the same person so all pitlords should consider characters of these accounts to be automatically losing their fights. That of course grants their opponents a tremendous advantage in their follow-up fights. @Biko/whomever: Thanks for once again disrupting our board with your unsocial behaviour.
waywreth 06-16-06, 10:24 AM	@Zevox - Tactics for Loquan sent for Sunstroke (MindWandererB) vs. Loquan Dar'ath (waywreth) @Ariel23 - Tactics for Gaston sent in Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Anixx the Warbringer (Iced)
Zevox 06-16-06, 10:27 AM	...and on Cat's rather unfortunate note, my FFA suddenly got a lot shorter and is now up. @ Waywreth - Tactics recieved, thank you. I may well run that one today if Micah's monster fight doesn't take long (which I don't expect it will). Zevox
Caterane 06-16-06, 11:02 AM	Cyra Val vs the Drider gang is done. @NiQil: Setup set up.
Ariel23 06-16-06, 11:45 AM	@waywreth, iced Tactics received for Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Anixx the Warbringer (Iced) I'm looking forward to the forest fight, but I'm also expecting some difficulties not typical for arena fights.
Zevox 06-16-06, 03:00 PM	Micah Ashald vs Centipede Swarm is up. Man was the map for this one appropriate - the image of a swarm of centipedes crawling along the walls and ceilings in the small passages of a sewer is a creepy one. Zevox
DSugui 06-16-06, 03:30 PM	@SauroGrenom: Tactics for Little Daisy in FFA fight sent by PM. Good luck with this fight... @Zevox: Setup for Indrithia Celeth (Zevox) vs. Unknown Monster is up HERE.
MindWandererB 06-16-06, 03:31 PM	@Cat: I never noticed before, but according to the new rule, the Pairingsmaker (you) makes the Time Roll. I don't see it anywhere on the pairings. Doesn't make a difference to my gladiators, but we all need it so we know how much duration has expired by the end of the fight.
Zevox 06-16-06, 03:56 PM	@ DSugui - Tactics for Indrithia Celeth (vs the "Large Brute") have been PMed. Heres hoping the dice work with me! Zevox
DSugui 06-16-06, 04:26 PM	Gravegov (Jihad) & Benoit (Biko111) vs. Solan (Iced) & Mattes (mattes) is up HERE. No words needed. @Traevanon: Tactics for Khabil Barukh received @Macbrea: Izumi's tactics received @Zevox: Tactics for Annalina Vale and Indrithia Celeth received @SoulLord: Tactics for Ten vermond received
Ariel23 06-16-06, 04:29 PM	@Pitlords Pathway The Forest Map key/legend says the following: The Pathway: The brown path Is this truncated? If not, it could probably be deleted. Canopy According to the Balance skill entry, moving at full speed across the canopy would be a DC 20, or 2 x DC 20 skill checks for a full move. [Currently this is given as a DC 25 for "full movement." Does this mean two checks or one? Should it really be DC 20?] What is the penalty for failing the Balance check on the Canopy? Do you just end up prone on the canopy "floor"? Can Large creatures with a Climb speed use the canopy? If not, how high can they go before they are forced to stop climbing (or stop moving horizontally)? Can they squeeze? Are you considered flat-footed unless you have 5 ranks of Balance? If you take damage, do you have to make a Balance check to avoid falling over? Does "thick and impenetrable" mean no Spot checks are possible (just like the second floor/story of a building)? What is the Listen penalty to hear someone on either side of the canopy? All "difficult" terrain It is probably worth mentioning in the notes that you cannot Charge or Run through any square requiring extra movement. [Or "The only place you may charge is the pathway."] I assume this rule applies to the canopy, even though it does not require 2 squares of movement. (If not, do you have to make 3-5 Balance checks to Run?) Trees Although this is SRD (as are most of the rest of the Forest rules) it should probably be mentioned that failure by 5 causes a fall to the ground from the previous height achieved. What is the DC to catch yourself while falling? They say it's "practically impossible" unless there is a slope, but there is a huge difference between scaling a wall or rock face and climbing through thick branches and losing your grip. Undergrowth Does this provide concealment to adjacent attackers? If no, what about melee at reach? Chasm (?) What exactly are these? What game effect do they have, how deep are they, etc? (How do you have a chasm on a forest floor where there's also standing and running water? :tongue: ) Swamp [colors] Is the swamp the light green in the middle of the map? [Btw, If I had to pick a color, I would say it is "Peridot".] Or is it the brown patches? The problem with this is the light and heavy undergrowth refer to "Light Green" and "Dark Green" but there are actually 6 shades of green on the map. Perhaps swamp could say "The green area at the center of the map" or something to that effect. This is a problem with the RAW, not CoCo, but do Large creatures pay 2 movement per square of bog? If not, can they run/charge through bog? My Soapbox This would be a complete houserule, but I am adamantly opposed to free and unrestricted use of the spiked chain at 10' distance (or more--you know who you are) in wooded areas such as this. IMO, it makes no sense. It would be at least as difficult as firing into melee (-4). This would be akin to using a greatsword in a 5x5x5 sewer tunnel or a halberd in a 5x5x10 closet. Of course, I don't believe a spiked chain would deal damage at 10' in any terrain, but that is just my personal bias and extensive first-hand experience with the laws of physics. EDIT: Grid coordinates would be helpful on the sides of the new maps (on the image itself). @Dracazar At times it is very difficult to spot the pins on the forest map due to coloration issues. I'm not saying any changes need to be made, just something to keep in mind. If the pins could perhaps be outlined in white, highlighted, or made to flash, that would be very helpful. Just about any text effect would greatly increase visibility.
TheMagister 06-16-06, 06:58 PM	@King Uther and Ravashack - tactics for TWH vs. Perius will be delivered tonight sometime before 10pm Central time, barring odd and out-of-the-ordinary hijinks at work. TM
Iced 06-16-06, 07:01 PM	Ariel23 and Zevox's miniquests are up, but i'm waiting on info from DSugui
TheMagister 06-16-06, 08:57 PM	@King Uther and Ravashack - Tactics for TWH vs. Perius sent via PM. That forest map is a buff-heavy character's wet dream, isn't it? Time, precious time... TM
Traevanon 06-16-06, 09:10 PM	@DSugui: So, considering the Creole situation am I fighting a 1 vs 1 in the city against Izumi?
NiQil 06-16-06, 09:47 PM	Cyra Val vs the Drider gang is done. @NiQil: Setup set up. Tactics sent....I hope ya choke on em LOL
Salrantol 06-16-06, 10:09 PM	@King Uther: Tactics for Meinrad the Many-Fisted sent via PM.
Zevox 06-16-06, 10:25 PM	Loquan Dar'ath vs Sunstroke is up. Quite the quick match, decided by a single roll of the dice (there was literally only one roll after the initiative and placement). Edit: @ DSugui - A few quick revisions to Indrithia's tactics have been sent. Somehow I managed to forget that she was fighting in the arena, not the plains :embarrass . Having two characters fighting there and two fights to run there will do that to you I suppose. Zevox
Ravashack 06-17-06, 02:09 AM	@King Uther and Ravashack - Tactics for TWH vs. Perius sent via PM. That forest map is a buff-heavy character's wet dream, isn't it? Time, precious time... TM Don't spend so long buffing that you end up violating the 10 round rule though...
King Uther 06-17-06, 02:12 AM	Tactics received in the monk vs monk duel. Tactics received for The White Hand. Still need tactics for Perius.
Erithmu 06-17-06, 02:18 AM	Aerryl vs Random Monster is up... Lots and lots of fire
TheMagister 06-17-06, 03:06 AM	Tactics received for The White Hand. Still need tactics for Perius. Tactics sent in to King Uther via email. Saw this earlier. Check your e-mail box...you might already have them. TM
TheMagister 06-17-06, 03:14 AM	Aerryl vs Random Monster is up... Lots and lots of fire Ouch, bad draw TWICE. Aerryl has TWH's sympathies...it seems to happen to him a lot. FYI, Erithmu - Dodge bonuses to AC always stack. Dodge and unnamed boni are the only two that are exceptions to the "same types don't stack" rule. Check the DMG page 21 under Bonus Types/Dodge for the scoop. Doesn't matter in this fight, though. I'm considering buying Sdentch the defending enchantment on her shortsword and doing the same on a gauntlet, and an armor spike, etc. Check out the definition of a defending weapon. It's an unnamed bonus that specifically stacks with itself. Isn't that insane? TM
Ravashack 06-17-06, 03:26 AM	Tactics received in the monk vs monk duel. Tactics received for The White Hand. Still need tactics for Perius. + what TheMagister said. If you prefer PMs for tactics and such, could you have Pitlords modify your pitlord information in the Pitlord list or note that about yourself in the Pitlords of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=643948) thread please? I went with the pitlord information because I didn't know whether you preferred PMs or Emails, and you don't have a post in the Pitlords of Gladius thread stating which.
KerlanRayne 06-17-06, 06:03 AM	...and on Cat's rather unfortunate note, my FFA suddenly got a lot shorter and is now up.No one said is was Greezer again, it could be someone else. You might want to edit that out. KerlanRayne
Pitlords 06-17-06, 07:42 AM	I totally forgot the Time Roll! It's 6 hours that pass before your fight begins. The time rolls can be found at Invisible Dice Roller udner the name "LivingGladius". Pitlords have to add that time to the fight summary in case there are ongoing effects! @Kerlan: It's Greezer.
Zevox 06-17-06, 09:39 AM	@ Kerlan - Well, besides what Pitlords just said, Cat had said as much in a PM to those of us running fights for those characters, so I was certain it was Greezer. Zevox
SauroGrenom 06-17-06, 01:20 PM	I just noticed that characters lost all the monster fights this week.
Zevox 06-17-06, 02:05 PM	I just noticed that characters lost all the monster fights this week. Well, two of them (Indrithia vs "Large Brute" and Famine & Death vs "A larger biped & 3 small guys") haven't been run yet, so thats not necessarily true yet. I don't know about Famine & Death, but Indrithia has a fair shot at hers I think, if the dice don't hate her. Zevox
MindWandererB 06-17-06, 02:56 PM	Yeah, the new "must not be an auto-win" really stacks the cards against the PC's. Monster fights are usually one-sided against one side or the other, and now that side tends to be the PC. It's kind of not cool that our advantages work against us, now. If Aerryl had left the bat at home, she'd be fighting xorns instead, which would have been a much easier fight.
SauroGrenom 06-17-06, 03:21 PM	I was just thinking that perhaps the "reputation" of a monster fight should be changed to reflect the difficulty. If you only win half the time or less vs monsters, then the monsters should have a higher power rating with regard to the way your character's power ratting is effected by a fight with a monster. It's currently 800, but perhaps it should be 1000.
DSugui 06-17-06, 11:11 PM	Sorry guys, it is a hell of weekend - two TT campaigns (one I play and one I run), and there's Brazil match tomorrow... I will probably have time to run the fights on Monday. @Iced: Since time is short right now, I would prefer Valek's MQ to be run like a regular Arena Fight. Just try to write some flavor text and chose a psionic-related opponent if you think of something.
King Uther 06-18-06, 12:29 PM	@Ravashack Just PM me. I'll fill in Pitlord info later.
Ravashack 06-18-06, 03:49 PM	@Ravashack Just PM me. I'll fill in Pitlord info later. All right, PMed.
Stormwind 06-18-06, 04:08 PM	@Sauro: Raskos's quest is up here.
MindWandererB 06-18-06, 05:35 PM	Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs Barthleby (Pittbull): MindWandererB [ECL9] (Map: City) Is up. It might be a tad controversial.
SauroGrenom 06-18-06, 08:49 PM	Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs Barthleby (Pittbull): MindWandererB [ECL9] (Map: City) Is up. It might be a tad controversial. I'm frankly supprised the tactic worked so well. I knew he would buff through the roof with the ice mephet form and various effects to increase AC, so I though that I would do my best to make sure that those would be of no signifigance by grappling. It worked better than I thought. Thanks Mindwanderer for the quick fight. I'm not sure if Pitbull with have complaints, but nothing wrong jumped out at me as I read through the battle.
SauroGrenom 06-18-06, 08:54 PM	For my players, I just got back from a weekend trip. I'll be working on your fight tonight. I have the first three rounds done, so the hard setup is finished. But there are 8 creatures in the battle to keep track of, so it's going slowly. I hope to have your fight finished tonight, but if that doesn't happen, I'll post it tomarrow night. Thanks for your patience, Sauro
TheMagister 06-18-06, 09:44 PM	Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs Barthleby (Pittbull): MindWandererB [ECL9] (Map: City) Is up. It might be a tad controversial. Yeah, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on the Pass without Trace ruling. The recipient can't be tracked by smell, the spell states. So if an escaped convict wanted to hide from a bloodhound and drank the potion, the bloodhound wouldn't be able to track him by smell. It would be denied the use of its scent ability when used to try to find the convict. On the other hand, if an invisible wizard wants to escape from a hunting griffon and drinks the potion, it doesn't cover his scent because he is not interested in escaping, just staying away while he summons helpers. I don't see how intent can change the way a spell operates (unless specifically stated as such in the spell description ala sanctuary and invisibility). If you can't be tracked by scent, then you can't be tracked by scent, whether your scent is on the ground or on the wind. A tracking creature with the scent ability simply doesn't get a clue as to your direction. I'm sorry, I just don't agree. Well run fight, though. TM
Ravashack 06-18-06, 10:51 PM	Yeah, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on the Pass without Trace ruling. The recipient can't be tracked by smell, the spell states. So if an escaped convict wanted to hide from a bloodhound and drank the potion, the bloodhound wouldn't be able to track him by smell. It would be denied the use of its scent ability when used to try to find the convict. On the other hand, if an invisible wizard wants to escape from a hunting griffon and drinks the potion, it doesn't cover his scent because he is not interested in escaping, just staying away while he summons helpers. I don't see how intent can change the way a spell operates (unless specifically stated as such in the spell description ala sanctuary and invisibility). If you can't be tracked by scent, then you can't be tracked by scent, whether your scent is on the ground or on the wind. A tracking creature with the scent ability simply doesn't get a clue as to your direction. I'm sorry, I just don't agree. Well run fight, though. TM To be more correct, the spell states that you don't LEAVE a smell or footprints. It doesn't prevent something from smelling you because you are right there, it prevent someone from smelling you when you are no longer there. If the spell worked the way your interpretation came off as, the spell would need to say that you have no odor for the duration of the spell. .
TheMagister 06-19-06, 12:07 AM	To be more correct, the spell states that you don't LEAVE a smell or footprints. It doesn't prevent something from smelling you because you are right there, it prevent someone from smelling you when you are no longer there. If the spell worked the way your interpretation came off as, the spell would need to say that you have no odor for the duration of the spell. . Ok. I hate to "go there" with this, but it just makes sense to me to do so. Advance apology. "Leaving scent" is like being covered in wet paint and brushing up against a world constructed entirely of blank canvas as you move. You leave traces of it everywhere in such a way that it is easy for anyone that can see it to follow you. Smelling something on the wind is (to extrapolate from the above analogy) to leave traces of paint on the miniscule pieces of canvas blowing free in the wind (dust, molecules of air, or whatever). Pass without Trace makes the paint you're covered in white as well. So, white-on-white footprints, white-on-white traces on blank canvas trees, white-on-white traces on dust, molecules of air, or whatever. Look, I'm not saying MWB is wrong. She's the pitlord of that particular matchup and she can make any decision she wants. The only people who can question her are her players, and even then she's still completely RIGHT as long as it is an interpretive call that she has made, and not something completely against the RAW. MWB (not intending to speak for you here, MWB) made a judgement call on the way a spell interacts with the game world. That's perfectly fine, and I'll stand behind her if one of the players involved started getting huffy. That is HER province, and her call. I simply disagree with her both on flavor and logical reasons, and I think that I have good reason to. I would rule it differently, is all. TM
SauroGrenom 06-19-06, 12:24 AM	Yeah, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on the Pass without Trace ruling. The recipient can't be tracked by smell, the spell states. So if an escaped convict wanted to hide from a bloodhound and drank the potion, the bloodhound wouldn't be able to track him by smell. It would be denied the use of its scent ability when used to try to find the convict. On the other hand, if an invisible wizard wants to escape from a hunting griffon and drinks the potion, it doesn't cover his scent because he is not interested in escaping, just staying away while he summons helpers. I don't see how intent can change the way a spell operates (unless specifically stated as such in the spell description ala sanctuary and invisibility). If you can't be tracked by scent, then you can't be tracked by scent, whether your scent is on the ground or on the wind. A tracking creature with the scent ability simply doesn't get a clue as to your direction. I'm sorry, I just don't agree. Well run fight, though. TMI think the critical thing here is whether "track" is being used at all. Track is a feat possessed by many creatures and rangers in particular. Many creatures specificially recieve bonuses on "Track" checks if they have scent. So the simplest and most direct reading of the spell effect indicates that you cannot use scent or any visual indication as the basis for applying the "track" feat. Since the Track feat was never used, I'm afraid that the spell effect never came into play. The word "Track" is clearly a game mechanic attached to the feat of the same name. Track in this spell description does not apply to all meanings of the word track. If that were the case the spell would effectively make you invisible while moving. Because your eyes "track" an object as it moves across your field of vision. And visual means of tracking are negated. Pittbull in this case was trying his best to negate the scent ability with what he had available. Unfortunately for him this 1st level spell is not the solution. Mindwanderer made a good choice on this ruling.
Ravashack 06-19-06, 12:46 AM	No need to apologize--everyone's entitled to their opinion. I just find that the conclusion you presented very unconvincing, and the followup even more unconvincing. I can provide the reasons why if you want, but it would end up being a long post. Do you want me to bother? Edit: Saurogrenom provided some of the reasons. If Bartheby had, say, moved out of the way of the griffon's scent range, the griffon never would have picked up on him.
TheMagister 06-19-06, 01:50 AM	Thanks for joining in, Sauro. Another brain on a disagreement is always a good thing. I will still have to disagree here. I'll go into more detail. Pass without Trace The subject or subjects can move through any type of terrain and leave neither footprints nor scent. Tracking the subjects is impossible by nonmagical means. SCENT This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell. A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges. The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source. A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility. Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights. This feat does not allow you to find or follow the tracks made by a subject of a pass without trace spell. Very well. After all that, we find that: 1) a creature under the effect of PwoT "leaves neither footprints nor scent". 2) a creature with the scent ability can "detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet", and "only detects its presence but not its specific location". 3) "noting the direction of the scent is a move action". 4) "a creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom check to find or follow a track." If PwoT prevents an opponent from "leaving a scent", then it's scent doesn't leave its body. If the scent doesn't leave its body, a creature with the scent ability cannot detect an opponent by sense of smell. If a creature with the scent ability cannot detect an opponent by sense of smell, it cannot detect its presence. Further, it cannot spend a move action to note the direction of the scent. Even the Track feat cannot allow a creature with the scent ability to find or follow the opponent's tracks. The creature with the scent ability is left no clues, because the opponent's scent never leaves its body. The opponent leaves no scent. Does this spark any doubt in your stances? TM
Ravashack 06-19-06, 02:42 AM	Not at all. It just reinforces it. The two key things in your argument that are really just killing it are: - Your argument is getting hung up on the idea that only possibility for "does not leave scent" is that the subject has no odor. - Your argument confuses tracking with detecting. Because of those two hangups, your argument makes Pass without Trace sound more powerful than it really is. Tracking, as illustrated by the feat Track and how it is mentioned in Scent, is finding and following a trail. Pass without Trace prevents tracking. Detection on the other hand is knowing that something is there. Pass without Trace most certainly does not prevent detection. If detecting and tracking were one and the same, it wouldn't be necessary to write the scent ability to treat them as different tasks. In fact, the scent ability blatantly states that in order to follow tracks by smell, the creature with scent has to have the Track feat. It's "A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability", not or. In other words, just having the scent ability does not allow you to track by smell. Let me give you a different example of how Pass without Trace can work. Do you know how there's usually a fan on top of a kitchen stove to suck away odors while you are cooking? But if you get close enough to the stove and have a decent sense of smell, you can still smell what's cooking despite the fan sucking away the odor so that your walls and furniture don't smell. That's what's going on with Pass without Trace and Scent. I would say more but I need to sleep right now...
Pittbull 06-19-06, 02:45 AM	Pass without trace: It is an old trick in the CoCo to use this spell to avoid the scent abillity. The former Elder Jindl ruled this about two years ago. I never thought that this isn't clear. So, sorry Sauro, MindWanderer made really no good choice. He should have ask me, in such a crucial point of my tactics. But he didn't and made me lose like a stupid rookie. I'll accept the loss and won't argue any further, but I'm deeply dissapointed. Nevertheless, thanks for running the fight, it was a tough one.
TheMagister 06-19-06, 04:20 AM	Not at all. It just reinforces it. The two key things in your argument that are really just killing it are: - Your argument is getting hung up on the idea that only possibility for "does not leave scent" is that the subject has no odor. Of course the subject has an odor. It just doesn't leave it anywhere. This is such a simple statement that I don't see how it can be disputed. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, which is fine. It's what the game is all about, after all. =) Well, having fun (first of all), but this stuff, too. - Your argument confuses tracking with detecting. Because of those two hangups, your argument makes Pass without Trace sound more powerful than it really is. Tracking, as illustrated by the feat Track and how it is mentioned in Scent, is finding and following a trail. Pass without Trace prevents tracking. Tracking is really secondary to this discussion. I only mentioned it because Barthleby left the Griffon's scent range (30'), and yet MWB allowed the griffon to both re-acquire B's scent AND follow it in the same round. It isn't that easy, especially with magic involved. Detection on the other hand is knowing that something is there. Pass without Trace most certainly does not prevent detection. By scent it certainly does. The opponent leaves NO SCENT. The intention of the subject enchanted with PwoT doesn't matter here. If he leaves no scent, then his scent never leaves his space (even a little bit). If a drop of his sweat flew off his forehead while he ran, it would become scent-less before it hit the ground or evaporated into the air. That's what the spell DOES. If detecting and tracking were one and the same, it wouldn't be necessary to write the scent ability to treat them as different tasks. In fact, the scent ability blatantly states that in order to follow tracks by smell, the creature with scent has to have the Track feat. It's "A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability", not or. In other words, just having the scent ability does not allow you to track by smell. True. All true. But you don't need the Track feat to follow tracks. You just need it to follow tracks with a DC higher than 10. By the same token, you don't need the Track feat to follow scents (within the general guideline of 30'). You just need it to follow scents that are farther away than 30'. Let me give you a different example of how Pass without Trace can work. Do you know how there's usually a fan on top of a kitchen stove to suck away odors while you are cooking? But if you get close enough to the stove and have a decent sense of smell, you can still smell what's cooking despite the fan sucking away the odor so that your walls and furniture don't smell. That's what's going on with Pass without Trace and Scent. I would say more but I need to sleep right now... Heh. I have to say it. Please forgive me. (petulantly) Magic is better than a stupid fan. =) TM
NiQil 06-19-06, 07:58 AM	Since we have two Elders involved here, I am going to step in here and play tiebreaker. First, lets look at what we are talking about. Pass without Trace Transmutation Level: Drd 1, Rgr 1 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Targets: One creature/level touched Duration: 1 hour/level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) The subject or subjects can move through any type of terrain and leave neither footprints nor scent. Tracking the subjects is impossible by nonmagical means. TRACK [GENERAL] Benefit: To find tracks or to follow them for 1 mile requires a successful Survival check. You must make another Survival check every time the tracks become difficult to follow. You move at half your normal speed (or at your normal speed with a –5 penalty on the check, or at up to twice your normal speed with a –20 penalty on the check). The DC depends on the surface and the prevailing conditions, as given on the table below: Surface Survival DC Surface Survival DC Very soft ground 5 Firm ground 15 Soft ground 10 Hard ground 20 Very Soft Ground: Any surface (fresh snow, thick dust, wet mud) that holds deep, clear impressions of footprints. Soft Ground: Any surface soft enough to yield to pressure, but firmer than wet mud or fresh snow, in which a creature leaves frequent but shallow footprints. Firm Ground: Most normal outdoor surfaces (such as lawns, fields, woods, and the like) or exceptionally soft or dirty indoor surfaces (thick rugs and very dirty or dusty floors). The creature might leave some traces (broken branches or tufts of hair), but it leaves only occasional or partial footprints. Hard Ground: Any surface that doesn’t hold footprints at all, such as bare rock or an indoor floor. Most streambeds fall into this category, since any footprints left behind are obscured or washed away. The creature leaves only traces (scuff marks or displaced pebbles). Several modifiers may apply to the Survival check, as given on the table below. Condition Survival DC Modifier Every three creatures in the group being tracked –1 Size of creature or creatures being tracked:1 Fine +8 Diminutive +4 Tiny +2 Small +1 Medium +0 Large –1 Huge –2 Gargantuan –4 Colossal –8 Every 24 hours since the trail was made +1 Every hour of rain since the trail was made +1 Fresh snow cover since the trail was made +10 Poor visibility:2 Overcast or moonless night +6 Moonlight +3 Fog or precipitation +3 Tracked party hides trail (and moves at half speed) +5 1 For a group of mixed sizes, apply only the modifier for the largest size category. 2 Apply only the largest modifier from this category. If you fail a Survival check, you can retry after 1 hour (outdoors) or 10 minutes (indoors) of searching. Normal: Without this feat, you can use the Survival skill to find tracks, but you can follow them only if the DC for the task is 10 or lower. Alternatively, you can use the Search skill to find a footprint or similar sign of a creature’s passage using the DCs given above, but you can’t use Search to follow tracks, even if someone else has already found them. Special: A ranger automatically has Track as a bonus feat. He need not select it. This feat does not allow you to find or follow the tracks made by a subject of a pass without trace spell. SCENT This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell. A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges. The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source. A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility. Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights. Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily. False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10. Alright...I'm not going to rehash the points made by both sides, but I am going to list the ones that make me reach my ruling. From the PwT spell, we see that the subject leaves no scent. The key word here is leaves. It does not say that the subject *has no secent, just that it *leaves no scent (behind). It also says that it is impossible to track someone with this spell...but as was already stated it says nothing about detection. This is key. Tracking someone is following signs they have left in an area they are no longer in. Detecting someone is finding them in their current location, in my estimation. From the scent ability, we see that not only does it give you the ability to track by scent, but it also specifically states that it gives you the ability to detect approaching foes. If track covered this, then it would not go out of it's way to mention it seperately, in my opinion. It also states that it will detect something by scent if it moves within so many ft, and can pinpoint within 5 ft. Let me be clear here. This is not tracking, this is detection. As such, after reading all of these points, I can only conclude that MWB made the correct decision. @ Pittbull: As an aside, if you are going to use things like this that you say have already been ruled on by past Elders, then you should really have posts that you can quote to back that up. Those of us that were not here when those Elders were (Jindl left shortly after I arrived here a year ago) have no way to know about these rulings otherwise. If you have them for this current situation, by all means, bring them forward so we can seem them. But we have no way to use those rulings if they aren't listed somewhere (which is why I started the Court Decisions in the first place).
Caterane 06-19-06, 08:06 AM	Famine vs. Death is done.
Pittbull 06-19-06, 08:28 AM	@ Pittbull: As an aside, if you are going to use things like this that you say have already been ruled on by past Elders, then you should really have posts that you can quote to back that up. Those of us that were not here when those Elders were (Jindl left shortly after I arrived here a year ago) have no way to know about these rulings otherwise. If you have them for this current situation, by all means, bring them forward so we can seem them. But we have no way to use those rulings if they aren't listed somewhere (which is why I started the Court Decisions in the first place). I was not aware, that people rule PwT in a different way we are used to. Therefor I didn't mention it. Sorry but I don't have the time to look up any post of the past, I can only say: "There has been a ruling." You must simply believe me. BTW, there is no reason, why I should bring an evidence, I'm not a guy who cheats. I have no problem with the fight, but the discussion shows that the spell can be read in the two different ways. Mindwanderer ruled in Sauro's favor (which is reasonable), not knowing that the spell has been used in the past differently. The only thing, I dislike, is that he didn't ask me why I thought PwT works, just implying, that I don't know the rules. If he worte only one PM, I would have told him or I would have changed the tactic to a not-use of the potion, to leave this issue to later discussion. As I said, I'm not asking for a rerun, I'm just complaning about this behaviour. Mindwanderer, I have nothing against you, but just wanted to spell out my feelings.
Pitlords 06-19-06, 10:16 AM	@Pitlords Pathway The Forest Map key/legend says the following: The Pathway: The brown path Is this truncated? If not, it could probably be deleted. Canopy According to the Balance skill entry, moving at full speed across the canopy would be a DC 20, or 2 x DC 20 skill checks for a full move. [Currently this is given as a DC 25 for "full movement." Does this mean two checks or one? Should it really be DC 20?] What is the penalty for failing the Balance check on the Canopy? Do you just end up prone on the canopy "floor"? Can Large creatures with a Climb speed use the canopy? If not, how high can they go before they are forced to stop climbing (or stop moving horizontally)? Can they squeeze? Are you considered flat-footed unless you have 5 ranks of Balance? If you take damage, do you have to make a Balance check to avoid falling over? Does "thick and impenetrable" mean no Spot checks are possible (just like the second floor/story of a building)? What is the Listen penalty to hear someone on either side of the canopy? All "difficult" terrain It is probably worth mentioning in the notes that you cannot Charge or Run through any square requiring extra movement. [Or "The only place you may charge is the pathway."] I assume this rule applies to the canopy, even though it does not require 2 squares of movement. (If not, do you have to make 3-5 Balance checks to Run?) Trees Although this is SRD (as are most of the rest of the Forest rules) it should probably be mentioned that failure by 5 causes a fall to the ground from the previous height achieved. What is the DC to catch yourself while falling? They say it's "practically impossible" unless there is a slope, but there is a huge difference between scaling a wall or rock face and climbing through thick branches and losing your grip. Undergrowth Does this provide concealment to adjacent attackers? If no, what about melee at reach? Chasm (?) What exactly are these? What game effect do they have, how deep are they, etc? (How do you have a chasm on a forest floor where there's also standing and running water? :tongue: ) Swamp [colors] Is the swamp the light green in the middle of the map? [Btw, If I had to pick a color, I would say it is "Peridot".] Or is it the brown patches? The problem with this is the light and heavy undergrowth refer to "Light Green" and "Dark Green" but there are actually 6 shades of green on the map. Perhaps swamp could say "The green area at the center of the map" or something to that effect. This is a problem with the RAW, not CoCo, but do Large creatures pay 2 movement per square of bog? If not, can they run/charge through bog? My Soapbox This would be a complete houserule, but I am adamantly opposed to free and unrestricted use of the spiked chain at 10' distance (or more--you know who you are) in wooded areas such as this. IMO, it makes no sense. It would be at least as difficult as firing into melee (-4). This would be akin to using a greatsword in a 5x5x5 sewer tunnel or a halberd in a 5x5x10 closet. Of course, I don't believe a spiked chain would deal damage at 10' in any terrain, but that is just my personal bias and extensive first-hand experience with the laws of physics. I have concretized the map as much as possible/necessary. Thanks for your input.
SauroGrenom 06-19-06, 10:20 AM	NiQil, Zevox and DSugui, I've made it to round 11 in the fight, and it's not even close to being completed. I'll have to finish it tonight. Sorry for the delay, but a fight with 3 character, a giant battle field, everyone with CLW wands, 3 wolves, a horse and a eagle is just complicated enough that it's taking time. Again, I'll be sure to have it up and finished tonight. Sauro
Ariel23 06-19-06, 11:13 AM	@Anyone Is there a copy of the new maps with grid coordinates? Would it be possible to get some (read: all) of my questions about the forest map answered if not in time for my fight, at least before we start heavily using these maps? If answers need to be debated, that's fine, too. I'm not trying to rush anybody; I know this week is one of the most difficult for a number of reasons (boards, PLs, new rules, etc). Pass Without Trace As far as Pass Without Trace, goes, saying that it would be "too powerful" if it completely blocked scent is ludicrous. Invisibility is a 2nd level spell that completely blocks sight. Blindness/Deafness causes one or the other permanently at 2nd level. "Hide From Animals" is level 1 and blocks vision, hearing, and smell. See also Cloud Mind, Camouflage, Blur, Displacement, etc. Heck, Prestidigitation completely cleans clothing, so the only scent given off a prestidigitated ninja would be his eyes? Since the spell doesn't exist and PWoT is argued to be not it, what level should "Unscentability" be to place it in line with other spells? A d20srd search (http://www.d20srd.org/cgi-bin/search.cgi?query=scent&docpath=%2Fsrd%2Fspells%2F&sort=swishrank&submit=Search&metaname=&search_config=www_d20srd_org) of the spell lists shows Pass Without Trace as the only spell that even could mask your scent. The problem is that scent is mostly meaningless in PnP but is of huge importance in the arena, especially so long as we have druids, rangers, and HA. So our perspective is completely skewed into thinking an interpretation that completely masks scent must be nerfed, imbalanced, incorrect, etc. But at the table-top this would seem the natural interpretation and no one would think twice about it. In D&D you have Spot [WIS] v. Hide [DEX] and Listen [WIS] v. Move Silently [DEX]. For Scent you have ??? [???] v. ??? [???]. What spell, skill, item, or ability should I use to mask my scent? Cloak of Not Smelling +5? Even if there were such a thing, what skill would oppose it? A WIS check? What skill is it modifying, and what ranks are needed to craft it? This is the problem. There is no mechanic provided for defeating scent. There's not even a scent check. The closest thing is WIS for tracking, but that means a 10 HD bloodhound might succeed at tracking about half the time or less. A 10th level Ranger will never fail at Tracking. There are no "stink-bombs" provided in the PHB, although of the very few alchemical devices offered, defeating sight and hearing are both included. Scent is not an ability given to standard PC races; Spot and Listen are made 100x more important than scent in the RAW to cover the game as conceived. (But if D&D had been written by dogs...) Our (human) game was not written for scenarios with 80% of all fights involving animals (or magical beasts) with the scent ability, and 50% of those where scent is of crucial importance. Just because that interpretation of PWoT would be powerful in CoCo does not make it an incorrect or impossible determination. CoCo is a highly specialized game. Imagine others where otherwise seemingly useless or innocuous abilities might take on an importance far beyond their level. Water-Breating in a pirate campaign. Ghost Touch in a Ghostwalk campaign. Favored Enemy (Fey and Human) in a Celtic campaign where all enemies are human or fey.
TelinArtho 06-19-06, 11:25 AM	Famine vs. Death is done. Cat - I think the rewards are incorrect. Exp would 1500xp (troll) + 750*3 (derro) = 3750xp total - divide by 2 for 2 characters = 1875xp. Now divide that by 3 because they lost = 625xp. Essentially - I think you forgot to divide the xp/gp by the 2 players.
SauroGrenom 06-19-06, 12:18 PM	Ariel23, Although you make some interesting points, I'm confused as to who you are arguing with or how your point applies to this spell. As you mention Hide From Animals is the relevant spell to defeat scent in a manner simular to invisibility's effect on sight. No members in this conversation are trying to nerf anything or make anything less powerfull. What's happening is deciding how far you can extrapolate the language of the description of a spell. The use of the term "Track" and the language about leaving no scent to be tracked indicate to me that scent (or any visual cue) cannot be used to apply the rules found in the track feat description. These are terms of a game mechanic. In the SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsPtoR.html#pass-without-trace) the word track in the spell description is even linked to the track feat. In the relevant battle, there was no survival skill checks and the Track feat was not used. Anyway there are mechanisms in place to defeat scent, only Pass Without a Trace is not the correct one. Rather you should use a different 1st level spell namely Hide From Animals.
Pittbull 06-19-06, 12:33 PM	A Griffon is a magical beast and therefor unaffected of hide from animals.
SauroGrenom 06-19-06, 12:58 PM	A Griffon is a magical beast and therefor unaffected of hide from animals. Good call! I missed that.
Ariel23 06-19-06, 03:02 PM	I'm confused as to who you are arguing with That is because I am not arguing with anyone. :P I definitely have an opinion on the matter, which I am expressing. I just think it makes more sense to debate a rule than to argue with people. I also find that most of the time, all dichotomies are false--there are very, very rarely only two choices or solutions to any single problem in life. IMO, most (but not all) people tend to look at these rules arguments from the bottom-up: How does this affect my characters? My previous/future fights and tactics? The fights I run as a pitlord? The arena as a whole? Once they reach those conclusions, then they fit the rule peg into the result hole. I tend to look at rule interpretations from a top-down perspective: given a context-free (or at least CoCo-free) environment, what was likely meant by the rules designers when they crafted the rule? Once I figure that out, then I can determine how the rule affects the arena, the PLs, fights, tactics, and character design. [Edit: Never go to law school. Seriously.] What's happening is deciding how far you can extrapolate the language of the description of a spell. The use of the term "Track" and the language about leaving no scent to be tracked indicate to me that scent (or any visual cue) cannot be used to apply the rules found in the track feat description. These are terms of a game mechanic. ... That is because "Track" is the only game mechanic given for scent, which was the gist of my argument. What other Scent mechanic could they have possibly referred to, other than Track, since none is given in the SRD? Even so, Track is not a true mechanic. What opposes it? Survival? Bluff? Sleight of Hand? (it could happen) It is a bit disengenous to say they intended PWOT to only apply to the Track mechanic and no other scent mechanics when there are no others. The only other semi-official game term they might have used is "cannot be pinpointed by Scent" which they omitted. As far as specific language goes, I have long ago reached the assumption that any language that does not reference specific or defined game terms or use a repeated phrase particular to D&D, then it was not explicitly written to be controlling language in rules discussions. It was just the diction of those writers and those editors, quite possibly stylistic choices. Odds are that any time we debate 2 or 3 specific words for 2-3 days, the writers debated those word choices for about 2-3 minutes. Anyway there are mechanisms in place to defeat scent, only Pass Without a Trace is not the correct one. Rather you should use a different 1st level spell namely Hide From Animals.I obviously disagree. I can't name a single mechanism for defeating scent, let alone multiple ones (nor have I heard any). To say that Hide from Animals defeats scent is a bit like saying Disintigrate prevents you from using sight. As you mention Hide From Animals is the relevant spell to defeat scent in a manner simular to invisibility's effect on sight.AFAIK Invisibility also works on Aberrations, Constructs, Dragons, Elementals, Fey, Giants, Humanoids, Magical Beasts, Plants, Outsiders, Undead, and Vermin. (Everything but Oozes, but that's only because they can't see.) No members in this conversation are trying to nerf anything or make anything less powerfull. Because of those two hangups, your argument makes Pass without Trace sound more powerful than it really is.
MindWandererB 06-19-06, 03:51 PM	Apparently the one thing I was clearly right about was that it would be controversial. I can edit out the use of the potion if you like, it's obviously not a big deal. If there were a Court Decision regarding the precedent I obviously wouldn't have done it that way (although I would disagree with it). Others have made my arguments just as well as I could have. I would just add one thing, about the chemical molecules being transmitted on the wind. The way I see it is that those molecules are like photons. Pass without Trace prevents you from leaving a trail--you don't disrupt the ground or leave any part of yourself behind on the environment. But photons reflecting directly off of your body and landing on someone's retina are still perceived, because you're not invisible. It's something coming directly off your body. So the same logic seems to me to apply to scent--you don't leave a scent trace on anything as you pass by it, but chemical molecules emitted directly from your body to someone's nostrils are still perceived. In general, I don't usually see pitlords inform players when they have the rules wrong, unless it forces them to use dramatically different strategies. For instance, summoners expecting to have their neutral summoned creatures be able to attack despite Protection from Evil. Since I had no idea that there was a precedent regarding this, I never had any idea that someone other that Pittbull would interpret the spell that way. I feel I was justified in simply thinking he had made a mistake. Of course, he was also justified in assuming the spell worked the way he thought it did, as well. That is because "Track" is the only game mechanic given for scent, which was the gist of my argument. What other Scent mechanic could they have possibly referred to, other than Track, since none is given in the SRD?Actually, this is not true. Scent allows you to do two things described by the rules: Track someone using Survival, or perceive them directly (within 30 feet). You do make a good point here, but it's one that has been made before: the CoCo environment makes certain effects more valuable than others. If the CoCo were the core game of D&D, I'm sure there would be spells (and items) that would mask scent, just as there would be more items that grant See Invisibility. Invisibility is such a major component of CoCo strategy that the effects that surround it are of much greater importance to us than it is to most D&D players. But we play the cards we're dealt. (@TheMagister: BTW, I happen to be male. However, I find it refreshing that you assumed I was female--most people refer to someone with undisclosed gender in the masculine by default.)
DSugui 06-19-06, 04:15 PM	Indrithia Celeth (Zevox) vs. Ogre, the ogre is up HERE Since it's the first time I pitlord a Monster Fight, I don't know if I did everything right. Please check for errors. The other fights will be up tomorrow morning.
Ariel23 06-19-06, 05:11 PM	The no-brainer parts of ECL 8 Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Anixx the Warbringer (Iced) [Forest] are up here. I am currently contemplating my response to having my questions in this post "answered" thusly:I have concretized the map as much as possible/necessary. Thanks for your input. I am not about to throw a tantrum, but I do consider this to be dismissive at best, which I certainly do not feel deserving of. From a concrete standpoint, these were questions posed in the FotW thread by a casual pitlord running a fight for characters above their own highest ECL using new rules in a new map. I could understand that answer (I guess) had my questions been posed as suggestions, or "input" in the Council thread, or even the Tavern. Clearly Pitlords considers every single question I asked to be input not worthy of a response. I certainly expect now that none of these maps ever give rise to a question that duplicates a single one of mine. It is mind-boggling to me that a PL cannot even be told which area is the swamp on the map, as that is of some relevance. I suppose we might all have different definitions of shades of green; this is why I asked. Right now I am inclined to find something else to do with my time, temporarily or indefinitely. This is not an ultimatum, nor should it even be seen as akin to "change this rule or else" as I am not asking for any such thing. It is not an indictment of Caterane. It is an attempt at an objective evaluation of what my time is worth to myself and to the community to which I have given it whole-heartedly. The problem is making a necessarily subjective decision like this objective, when of course that is impossible. So, for now, I will take some time to think about it, in the hopes of reaching a reasoned conclusion and making a decision or commitment that I won't have cause to regret. It is not within my character to leave someone in the lurch or harm an innocent 3rd party, but if my decision is not to continue with the CoCo, obviously it would not be of any benefit to myself to finish this fight (nor of Iced to finish mine). In fact, it would be of benefit to the participants to have it finished by someone who has absolutely no questions about the map. Were I the ultimatum/sky-is-falling type, I would probably say "I can't finish my fight with such an illegible map." But that would be bogus, just the same as anyone saying "If this rule changes, I will lose every fight, etc etc." Frankly, I couldn't care less about the forest map or what is done or not done with it. I certainly have no personal stake in it and I think it looks fine right now. I thought it looked neat when it was first proposed, although I saw the potential for many headaches which I knew could only be solved over time with trial and error. I guess I was wrong about that.
MindWandererB 06-19-06, 05:17 PM	@Ariel: You misunderstood what Cat said. Take a look at the map description now. He made some changes based on your input; that's what he meant by the post you quoted.
Zevox 06-19-06, 05:49 PM	@Zevox: Looks like you underestimated your opponent. You had good tactics, but I think you would have better chances if you stayed at distance. That, and the amazing damage of the ogre, killed you today. Better luck next time. More accurately, I completely missed who my opponent would be. Somehow, some way, I missed that the Ogre was listed among the possible ECL 3 monster encounters :embarrass . I had expected a Howler, which Indrithia couldn't have outrun. If I'd noticed that, she would have been dashing away, tumbling to avoid AoOs. Oh well, live and learn I suppose. At least it was a nice cheap loss. Looks good to me, but then again I'm no expert on monster fights (I've run all of two, and this is the first one of my characters has been in). Zevox
Pittbull 06-19-06, 06:25 PM	@MindWandererB: No need to edit the fight, I can accept the loss. It was the third time Kracknol and Barthleby crossed the swords and this time it was the duergars fortune to win, no problem. I just wanted to point out that I didn't write stupid tactics. ;)
Pittbull 06-19-06, 06:30 PM	@NiQil: Would you add the new court-decision to the FAQ, please?
Traevanon 06-19-06, 06:30 PM	Papapeperoni (Kendal Aphos ECL5) has exactly two hours left to send tactics or he forfeits. The only reason I am allowing this long is because it is the deadline I set in my PM previously to him and his opponent. In the future I will set my deadlines tighter to allow more time to complete the match. Thanks - Trae
MindWandererB 06-19-06, 06:36 PM	@MindWandererB: No need to edit the fight, I can accept the loss. It was the third time Kracknol and Barthleby crossed the swords and this time it was the duergars fortune to win, no problem. I just wanted to point out that I didn't write stupid tactics. ;)I never thought they were stupid. A wizard charging into melee with a barbarian is stupid. I have a much higher opinion of you than that.
TheMagister 06-19-06, 07:58 PM	I'm perfectly happy to abide by Niqil's Court Decision ruling on PwoT. Also, I'd like to reiterate that I never criticized MWB on *HIS ruling in the fight. *I'd like to take the credit for being all gender-conscious and all, but I can't. I actually thought you were female. Maybe it's because you're right so often, or because you argue so well... :gah: TM =)
NiQil 06-19-06, 09:02 PM	I was not aware, that people rule PwT in a different way we are used to. Therefor I didn't mention it. Sorry but I don't have the time to look up any post of the past, I can only say: "There has been a ruling." You must simply believe me. BTW, there is no reason, why I should bring an evidence, I'm not a guy who cheats. I have no problem with the fight, but the discussion shows that the spell can be read in the two different ways. Mindwanderer ruled in Sauro's favor (which is reasonable), not knowing that the spell has been used in the past differently. The only thing, I dislike, is that he didn't ask me why I thought PwT works, just implying, that I don't know the rules. If he worte only one PM, I would have told him or I would have changed the tactic to a not-use of the potion, to leave this issue to later discussion. As I said, I'm not asking for a rerun, I'm just complaning about this behaviour. Mindwanderer, I have nothing against you, but just wanted to spell out my feelings. Let me be the first to agree that you are not one who I would ever accuse of cheating. If I implied that in any way, it was not intentional. All I meant by my comment was to point out that we have no way of knowing of past rulings if we can't see them somewhere. It's not that I don't believe you, but I have to be able to see it in order to see the logic behind that ruling in order to uphold or overturn it. Also, I need to see these things so that I can update the Court Decisions as they come up. As I stated...that was the reason I started the Court Decisions...prior to its creation (as you may remember), we were constantly coming up with rulings that had been made in the past that only a handful of people knew about due to our membership churning. Now, all of the rulings can clearly be seen in one place, regardless of who made them or when they were made, and everyone has the same point of reference. Again....I don't doubt that the ruling was made as you said, but in the absence of an old post or something similar, I can only issue a ruling based on the information at hand. And to respond to your other request, yes, I will add it to the Court Decisions when I do my next update.
NiQil 06-19-06, 09:04 PM	I'm perfectly happy to abide by Niqil's Court Decision ruling on PwoT. Also, I'd like to reiterate that I never criticized MWB on *HIS ruling in the fight. *I'd like to take the credit for being all gender-conscious and all, but I can't. I actually thought you were female. Maybe it's because you're right so often, or because you argue so well... :gah: TM =) This...coming from the owner of the Grandmistress of Flowers..... :P
NiQil 06-19-06, 09:10 PM	Famine and Death lose. They gain 1250 XP and 1433 GP. Cat - I think the rewards are incorrect. Exp would 1500xp (troll) + 750*3 (derro) = 3750xp total - divide by 2 for 2 characters = 1875xp. Now divide that by 3 because they lost = 625xp. Essentially - I think you forgot to divide the xp/gp by the 2 players. @ Cat: Can you confirm or deny this? I think Telin is correct....and I think that maybe the gold needs to be fixed as well (I was never very good at these calculations, so I might be wrong). I *think the gold should be 716.5 gp for each. I think Telin is correct...the totals need to just be halved. If you could double-check that and make any edit to the fight that is necessary, that would be super. Thanks for running it....figured I had little to know chance...and losing one of the two with a single attack sorta proved me correct LOL
NiQil 06-19-06, 09:13 PM	More accurately, I completely missed who my opponent would be. Somehow, some way, I missed that the Ogre was listed among the possible ECL 3 monster encounters :embarrass . I had expected a Howler, which Indrithia couldn't have outrun. If I'd noticed that, she would have been dashing away, tumbling to avoid AoOs. Oh well, live and learn I suppose. At least it was a nice cheap loss. Looks good to me, but then again I'm no expert on monster fights (I've run all of two, and this is the first one of my characters has been in). Zevox And to drive Sauro's earlier point home....every character in a monster fight this week lost....methinks I will start keeping track of that...I have a feeling that maybe some changes in this area might be in order, but we will see what the numbers over the next few weeks show.
Ravashack 06-19-06, 09:42 PM	Um, Ariel, "your argument makes Pass without Trace sound more powerful than it really is" does not equate to "Pass without Trace is too powerful". If you wanted it phrased differently but with the same intent, "I don't buy your conclusion on how Pass without Trace should do that when it doesn't even mention it" works just fine too.
Traevanon 06-19-06, 10:05 PM	This fight is concluded. Pestilence (NiQil) vs Kendal Aphos (Papapeperoni) : Traevanon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9401311&postcount=652)
Traevanon 06-19-06, 10:07 PM	It appears that the Hunter Fight involving myself, Macbrea and Creole isnt going to happen. Can I edit my sheet?
NiQil 06-19-06, 10:12 PM	It appears that the Hunter Fight involving myself, Macbrea and Creole isnt going to happen. Can I edit my sheet? Unfortunately, no. Creole has forfeited, but Macbrea is still very much able to participate in the match if he so chooses. If he did not submit tactics, and has no defaults, then (assuming you did submit tactics), you would win in a forfeit, but would not be able to update your sheet until that has been posted in the Battles thread. If Macbrea has submitted tactics, then the fight may still happen, or else it will be held over. Either way, you will want to wait to edit.
Zevox 06-19-06, 10:12 PM	It appears that the Hunter Fight involving myself, Macbrea and Creole isnt going to happen. Can I edit my sheet? DSugui said he'd have his fights up tomorrow, so don't count him out yet. Regardles, you should never edit your sheet before your fight is run - even if it doesn't get run this week, it only means that it will be held over until next week, and editing your sheet before its run will still get you an auto-lose. On yours, Kendal still gains the loser rewards. There are no penalties for forfeiting, either volunatarily or through lack of giving tactics. Zevox
King Uther 06-19-06, 10:20 PM	Cable was down in my area, so my internet did not work last night. I'm going to work on my fights now.
Traevanon 06-19-06, 10:27 PM	(Re: forfeit) I figured as much. Sitting around waiting for someone to send tactics all week bites. I'll reluctantly edit in his proper rewards. (Re: Hunter match) Ahh, I didnt know that it could still be run with only two. I dont think I aught to get credit for "killing" Herathia (Creole)...
King Uther 06-20-06, 01:25 AM	Seaendithas vs Meinrad the Many-Fisted is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9431823&postcount=663) Spy vs Spy, or something similar. Edit: TWH vs Perius will be up tomorrow after I get off of work. I get the feeling the condensed forest will play a HUGE role in the fight.
TheMagister 06-20-06, 01:40 AM	I get the feeling the condensed forest will play a HUGE role in the fight. Gee, d'ya think? =) tm
SoulLord 06-20-06, 09:24 AM	Um, Ariel, "your argument makes Pass without Trace sound more powerful than it really is" does not equate to "Pass without Trace is too powerful". If you wanted it phrased differently but with the same intent, "I don't buy your conclusion on how Pass without Trace should do that when it doesn't even mention it" works just fine too. I also have used pass without trace as it's the only means to consistently defeat scent which has been pointed out that not only animals have. Can anyone point me to another spell to defeat scent since as of Niquils ruling the spell has been nerfed for all effective purposes.
Pittbull 06-20-06, 09:56 AM	@Soullord: There's nothing left which defeats scent, it rules the world now! ;) Another questions: - Does the free activity earn money aply on every fight or, just at the end of a 3WC? - Can we use pearls of power between the fights to recall used spell?
TelinArtho 06-20-06, 10:03 AM	@Pittbull - you should be able to use PoP any time during the 3FC. I never did get an answer on what it equates to though: You get 10 SLs per fight normally. In fight 1, you use all 10 SLs by casting Shield, Mage Armor, Scorching Ray (x2), Invisibility and Mirror Image. However, in between fight 1 and 2, you use a PoP(2nd) to recover Invisibility. In fight 2, you have at least 10SLs. Now - with the previous ruling about PoP, one would assume you have 10SLs plus the ability to cast Invisibility for "free". Otherwise, you have 12SLs of which invisibility is one of your options. Given the previous ruling about PoP though, I suspect it is 10SLs plus Invisibility for free.
SoulLord 06-20-06, 10:14 AM	@Soullord: There's nothing left which defeats scent, it rules the world now! ;) he he he great can we now ban all see invisibility spells? *joking
SauroGrenom 06-20-06, 10:29 AM	I just finished the 3 way Free for all fight. It's up, and it was by far the crapiest fight I've ever run. It took me well over 10 hours.
Zevox 06-20-06, 12:21 PM	Yeah... ow. Sorry you had to run that. Clearly the plains is not a good arena for FFAs. I won't ask for any changes, but I do have a couple of big things to point out: Destra has 6 spell levels available, not 5, so she could've cast another produce flame. She also wouldn't be unconscious at 0 hp, merely disabled, so she could've healed that round, albeit losing 1 hp in the process. Could've been important, but again, theres no way I'd ask for an edit to something that monstrous, and I'd always rather accept a loss than have a fight held over. Theres a couple of other minor errors, such as the fact that you seem to have put Carcalce's AC at 14 when his barding increases it to 16, but nothing that would affect the fight in the least. Thanks for running it. I'll see if I can tabulate the resulting rewards, expenditures, etc to give you a hand there... Edit: Rewards: Destra 437 xp & 466 gp (1st down, -12.5%) War 1,125 xp & 1199 gp (2nd down, +12.%) Daisy 2,500 xp & 2666 gp (winner, adjustments even out) Used Items: Destra - Scroll of Longstrider, Scroll of Defense (Barkskin), Scroll of Resist Energy, Scroll of Physical Enhancement (Cat's Grace), potion of Shield of Faith, 3 charges of wand of CLW. War - ?? Arrows (46 fired, 13 hit), 8 charges of wand of CLW. Daisy - Scroll of Cat's Grace, Use of Rod of Lesser Extend, 15 charges of wand of CLW. Used Abilities & Dead Allies: Destra: Spells - Call Lightning, Produce Flame, Entangle. All three Wolves dead. Daisy: Wild Shape, Spells - Produce Flame, Bull's Strength, Call Lightning. Artemis dead. Free Activities: Destra - Teach "attack anything" to Carcaraumo. War - Make 115 gp w/ Craft (Masonry) Daisy - Teach "down" to Artemis. Zevox
SauroGrenom 06-20-06, 01:50 PM	Thanks Zevox. I was just now looking at the fight and I noticed a couple little errors here and there. For example Destra's Call lightning increases in durration in the middle of the fight. So she get's an extra call lightning out that shouldn't be in there. I underestimated Daisy's speed as an eagle. I missed one spell level on Destra and there are probably a few others in there that I missed or calculated incorrectly. Anyway, I'm sorry that this fight took so long. It was a monster. Also the survival of the allies through battles is not going to be something that starts last week. So all your allies are available next week. I'm not sure, but I think that FFA fights count as multiple fights for the 3 week cycle. At least that was an idea that was kicked around. I'm not sure if it was accepted or not.
Zevox 06-20-06, 02:34 PM	Thanks Zevox. I was just now looking at the fight and I noticed a couple little errors here and there. For example Destra's Call lightning increases in durration in the middle of the fight. So she get's an extra call lightning out that shouldn't be in there. Actually, thats one of those other little errors. Call Lightning does not decrease in duration as its bolts are used the way thrown Produce Flames do, so its duration should always have been 50 rounds. So that 5th bolt is still fine. Also the survival of the allies through battles is not going to be something that starts last week. So all your allies are available next week. Well, thats good to hear. I'm not sure, but I think that FFA fights count as multiple fights for the 3 week cycle. At least that was an idea that was kicked around. I'm not sure if it was accepted or not. The idea got rejected, unfortunately. Its somewhere in the "Battles of Gladius" rules that FFAs still count as just 1 fight. Also, on the wrap-up, I missed one of Daisy's used items: a Scroll of Shilleilagh (sp?). Zevox
MindWandererB 06-20-06, 02:59 PM	I'm not sure, but I think that FFA fights count as multiple fights for the 3 week cycle. At least that was an idea that was kicked around. I'm not sure if it was accepted or not.No, it wasn't accepted. What if one character in an FFA is on their third fight already? Then a fresh character will be able to blow two fights' worth of spells, etc. on them, but they have nothing with which to fight back. It doesn't do you any good to say, "hey, you had the equivalent of five fights this cycle! Good for you!"
DSugui 06-20-06, 03:30 PM	@Sauro: Thanks for the run. This one was very close for Daisy, she got pretty lucky... Only for future reference, one error I found is regarding casting defensively: when you fail the concentration check, you just lose the spell, you do no provoke AoO. @My gladiators: After I ran Ten vs Annalina, I realized that Ten couldn't bring his horse and the hired mercenary to the fight. I will have to rerun the whole fight, and still have the hunter fight, so I'll probably be late. Sorry. @SoulLord: choose one - horse or mercenary. At ECL 3 you can only bring one of them.
SoulLord 06-20-06, 03:58 PM	@Sauro: Thanks for the run. This one was very close for Daisy, she got pretty lucky... Only for future reference, one error I found is regarding casting defensively: when you fail the concentration check, you just lose the spell, you do no provoke AoO. @My gladiators: After I ran Ten vs Annalina, I realized that Ten couldn't bring his horse and the hired mercenary to the fight. I will have to rerun the whole fight, and still have the hunter fight, so I'll probably be late. Sorry. @SoulLord: choose one - horse or mercenary. At ECL 3 you can only bring one of them. ahhhh shoots I wish you had not posted Annalina tactics so I could adapt properly well horse it is. unless you would consider Ten using forgery instead of his other free activity to allow Barak to join him (that way you would not have to change things)
Zevox 06-20-06, 04:47 PM	unless you would consider Ten using forgery instead of his other free activity to allow Barak to join him (that way you would not have to change things) Thats not an option I'm afraid. Even if you had used Forgery, you neither prebuffed the merc nor listed him in your title line, which means he can't be used (the former is a general ally requirement, the latter a merc one). Zevox
SoulLord 06-20-06, 04:51 PM	Well horse it is then.
NiQil 06-20-06, 09:39 PM	I just finished the 3 way Free for all fight. It's up, and it was by far the crapiest fight I've ever run. It took me well over 10 hours. First, let me thank you for putting the effort in on this fight. I do have some minor things toward then end that I would like to see edited. Starting in round 40, it seems that War's tactics were largely ignored. Up to that point, he was doing exactly as I asked, but from there things seemed to go out the window. In round 40, War went below the 25 hp threshold I set for healing, and should have started healing there. This has a ripple effect throughout the remaining rounds, as all of the attacks and healing would change. There were four rounds there that Daisy healed while War was almost dead that could have been used healing instead of attacking. This could very well change the outcome of the match, or at the very least change the monetary uses on both sides. Secondly, once melee was engaged, I should have been using 5 ft steps to continue firing from the bow until I couldn't, at which point I should have been attacking with the armor spikes. I never mentioned a waraxe in my tactics at all. In round 47, War is not tripped. You forgot to add the +4 for being a dwarf to the roll, which results in a tie. Since my modifier would be higher at a +7 vs a +5, the tie goes to me. This would take away the AoO in that round. Also, it appears (starting in round 51), that you were adding that +4 to Athena instead of War on your rolls. Athena's trip check mod jumped from a +5 to a +9 with no explanation. This would also result in no trip in round 56, since taking away 4 from Athena's total and adding 4 to War's total would result in War winning the check. All of these are very much fight affecting, and I would like to see them corrected. These very well could result in a change of the results. If the fight needs to be extended to fix these errors, I can certainly make that request. It appears there are some other errors that others have caught as well that sound like they also could use fixing. I realize time is short, so if you can't get to these before deadline, I can have the fight extended so that they can be fixed I understand. Edit: After thinking about it, while I would still very much like to see these errors corrected as they could alter the results, I will not ask that this fight be extended. Enough time has already been spent on this monstrosity. So if you can make the corrections, it would be appreciated. But everyone is free to set their characters for actions for next pairings.
DSugui 06-20-06, 10:00 PM	Herathia (Creole) => Izumi (Macbrea) => Khabil (Traevanon) is up HERE Despite the fact that Herathia loses by default, this is still a hunter fight, and rewards were calculated accordingly. If I should have assigned rewards as a standart fight, please say so I can edit.
Traevanon 06-20-06, 10:32 PM	So, just to be clear on the 3FC: Khabil now has 6500xp, but wont actually level until the end of the cycle?
SoulLord 06-20-06, 10:57 PM	So, just to be clear on the 3FC: Khabil now has 6500xp, but wont actually level until the end of the cycle? Yes you are correct
NiQil 06-20-06, 10:58 PM	So, just to be clear on the 3FC: Khabil now has 6500xp, but wont actually level until the end of the cycle? Correct. Am I correct in assuming that Iced has not posted the miniquest for Valek Usher? Or did I just miss it?
Ravashack 06-20-06, 11:12 PM	Heh. I just read the tactics you wrote TheMagister. You realize that Touchsight makes the blinding effect pointless, right?
DSugui 06-20-06, 11:19 PM	Am I correct in assuming that Iced has not posted the miniquest for Valek Usher? Or did I just miss it? Yeah, you are correct. He did send a PM to me asking for a background, but I didn't read it until Sunday night, so I posted in this thread that he could run the MQ as a regular fight. But I got no response from him since them. @SoulLord & Zevox: I started to rerun Ten vs Annalina, but a ranged combat with creepy attack bonuses and lots of space for people to run was starting to **** me off. I have to wake up early tomorrow to go to another town at work, but I intend to finish the fight before pairings. It can take too long, though, so if anyone wants to take the fight and finish it before that, I won't complain.
Guildmaster (WAR) 06-20-06, 11:23 PM	Yeah, you are correct. He did send a PM to me asking for a background, but I didn't read it until Sunday night, so I posted in this thread that he could run the MQ as a regular fight. But I got no response from him since them. Anyone willing to possibly pick this up? Should run like a monster fight, methinks. WAR could certainly use the income, and I am sure Valek would love to level.
SauroGrenom 06-21-06, 12:44 AM	NiQil, War does start healing, yes it is a couple rounds latter than what you ask for, but he is able to heal back to 25hp in round 48 before the serious melee hurts him. As for the war axe, I improvised because you would otherwise waste a bunch of actions trying to draw a CLW wand and stow it again and draw it again and stow it again and....every time you want to attack. It is far more versatile for you to simply have a one handed weapon in hand and the CLW wand in the other hand. Your call though, and I'll edit in your bow in hand. This is irrelevant because War never makes an attack after using the CLW wand. Anyway If I followed your tactics to the letter, you would have healed in round 40 instead of hitting Athena. Thus melee would have begun sooner, and War would probably die faster without using as many charges of the CLW wand. As I ran the battle, I looked to improve your chances of winning at every turn. Rather than trying to preserve charges on your CLW wand. Avoiding melee is your best strategy, and slaying the dog and keeping it dead is your best tactic. Thus all the attacks to try and slay the dog before melee. Once melee had begun, it was not reasonable to hope to avoid it any longer so healing was the way to go. You are correct in that I deviated from your tactics by delaying healing, but I did it to try and improve your chances of winning. With the trip checks, I forgot the dwarf bonus entirely. Sorry. I also forgot the 4 legged bonus for the dog in round 49. It appeared for the dog in round 51 when I remembered it, but not for the dwarf at any point. However if I add+4 to the dwarf's check, the outcome of only the 49th round is in question. In that instance there is a tie, and rules are not clear on who wins a tie for a trip check. I'll go with the character who has the higher check modifier (the dog) as is the case with Grapple. If you have knowege of a ruling on this or FAQ or errata, let me know. You gave the fight a carefull read, and with a fight having so many participants and being so long, I was sure I would make a few errors. Of the errors you mention only the trip checks would be fight changing. Since adding in the bonuses for War will not change any of the trip checks, it makes it hardly worth it to edit the fight at all. Editing when War starts to heal will only cause his demise faster and a decrease in CLW charges used. I don't think a few extra CLW charges is a good enough reason to make a serious edit of 16 rounds of the fight. I'll go back and edit to keep the bow in hand.
King Uther 06-21-06, 01:15 AM	TWH vs Perius is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9439936&postcount=669) This is the silliest Rogue vs Wilder fight I could think of. A melee range brawl.
NiQil 06-21-06, 01:47 AM	NiQil, War does start healing, yes it is a couple rounds latter than what you ask for, but he is able to heal back to 25hp in round 48 before the serious melee hurts him. As for the war axe, I improvised because you would otherwise waste a bunch of actions trying to draw a CLW wand and stow it again and draw it again and stow it again and....every time you want to attack. It is far more versatile for you to simply have a one handed weapon in hand and the CLW wand in the other hand. Your call though, and I'll edit in your bow in hand. This is irrelevant because War never makes an attack after using the CLW wand. Anyway If I followed your tactics to the letter, you would have healed in round 40 instead of hitting Athena. Thus melee would have begun sooner, and War would probably die faster without using as many charges of the CLW wand. As I ran the battle, I looked to improve your chances of winning at every turn. Rather than trying to preserve charges on your CLW wand. Avoiding melee is your best strategy, and slaying the dog and keeping it dead is your best tactic. Thus all the attacks to try and slay the dog before melee. Once melee had begun, it was not reasonable to hope to avoid it any longer so healing was the way to go. You are correct in that I deviated from your tactics by delaying healing, but I did it to try and improve your chances of winning. With the trip checks, I forgot the dwarf bonus entirely. Sorry. I also forgot the 4 legged bonus for the dog in round 49. It appeared for the dog in round 51 when I remembered it, but not for the dwarf at any point. However if I add+4 to the dwarf's check, the outcome of only the 49th round is in question. In that instance there is a tie, and rules are not clear on who wins a tie for a trip check. I'll go with the character who has the higher check modifier (the dog) as is the case with Grapple. If you have knowege of a ruling on this or FAQ or errata, let me know. You gave the fight a carefull read, and with a fight having so many participants and being so long, I was sure I would make a few errors. Of the errors you mention only the trip checks would be fight changing. Since adding in the bonuses for War will not change any of the trip checks, it makes it hardly worth it to edit the fight at all. Editing when War starts to heal will only cause his demise faster and a decrease in CLW charges used. I don't think a few extra CLW charges is a good enough reason to make a serious edit of 16 rounds of the fight. I'll go back and edit to keep the bow in hand. Opposed Checks An opposed check is a check whose success or failure is determined by comparing the check result to another character’s check result. In an opposed check, the higher result succeeds, while the lower result fails. In case of a tie, the higher skill modifier wins. If these scores are the same, roll again to break the tie. Ties on checks of any kind always go to the higher modifier, unless specifically stated otherwise. The dog's modifier remains at +5 (see below), and War's goes up to a +7, resulting in a tie. Ties goes to War. Also, you are incorrect about a missing bonus for the dog. Making a Trip Attack: Make an unarmed melee touch attack against your target. This provokes an attack of opportunity from your target as normal for unarmed attacks. If your attack succeeds, make a Strength check opposed by the defender’s Dexterity or Strength check (whichever ability score has the higher modifier). A combatant gets a +4 bonus for every size category he is larger than Medium or a –4 penalty for every size category he is smaller than Medium. The defender gets a +4 bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid. If you win, you trip the defender. If you lose, the defender may immediately react and make a Strength check opposed by your Dexterity or Strength check to try to trip you. The dog receives no such bonus to trip checks because he is the attacker. Therefore, the trip checks do change. War gets his missing bonus, and the dog will lose his. So the trip checks in every round should have a +5 for the dog, and a +7 for War defending. War is going to win both rounds 49 and 56. I can live with your improv as long as the trip checks are changed, as they are would seem to be clearly in error. Also, again...you did a great job with this mess. I only bring this up because it could change the result...if there was no chance of that, I wouldn't have even bothered.
Ravashack 06-21-06, 02:46 AM	TWH vs Perius is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9439936&postcount=669) This is the silliest Rogue vs Wilder fight I could think of. A melee range brawl. You also forgot that to deal with feint, you also add the BAB to the Sense Motive, so Perius would have a +17 to deal with it, not +12. That means the second feint doesn't even go through. I was expecting melee one way or another, but since I wrote the cat and mouse expecting to start within 25 feet of him to use Crystal Shard, the lack of a cat and mouse really doesn't matter. I'm also a little confused with the wording you used. It sounded like you were expecting the feint itself to deal damage--if that is the case that's incorrect. Nevermind, just remembered Sneak Attack damage.
TheMagister 06-21-06, 04:27 AM	Yeah, that happened about the way I expected it to. Boy, to get two-digit damage EVERY TIME on 3d6...I only with TWH was so lucky. Good run, King. TM
Iced 06-21-06, 04:57 AM	@Ariel23 - Anixx doesn't need to use a potion of fly in his fight because the fly spell is prepared. I'd rather keep the potion (not sure i even have one..).
Pitlords 06-21-06, 08:31 AM	Is it possible to get the late fights and MQs done before the deadline? I really don't want to have 5 additional fights burdening our pitlords this week.
TelinArtho 06-21-06, 10:13 AM	If I get tactics - I can run a fight today most likely. First come - first served.
waywreth 06-21-06, 10:42 AM	Tactics for Annix vs. Gaston (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9426195&postcount=661) have been posted. However there is some disagreement on if the Hydra skeleton is a valid ally. Iced says he quested it - He did quest for it. He journeyed to an ancient battleground in the Battle of Fael Daed and animated it from there. I say no - there was no hydra fought not mentioned at any point in that quest.
TelinArtho 06-21-06, 10:43 AM	Since I ran that quest - I'll throw out that I know for a fact that the hydra skeleton was NOT a part of the rewards from it. Sorry Iced - but no go. [EDIT]Here's the text of his original quest request from me: I want Anixx to go questing to find the site of an ancient battlefield. My quest goal is to raise an army of undead allies. githyanki or whatever the +6 dex race is for skeleton archers and half-giants for zombie warriors in about an even ratio. Also sometime i want to get a dire-bat zombie. Quest EL is 7 and i'd like to start next week if possible. I agreed to do the quest for the skeleton archers and the half-giant zombies, but not for the dire-bat zombie.
SauroGrenom 06-21-06, 12:19 PM	NiQil, I updated the fight for you. No change in outcome, but more expendibles used.
SauroGrenom 06-21-06, 12:25 PM	Pitlords, I just noticed you updated Kracknol's record in the roster incorrectly. It should read 19 win and 9 loss not 18 win and 10 loss. Kracknol won his fight with Barthleby.
Pittbull 06-21-06, 12:53 PM	I guess, it is wrong because Pitlords is so used to see Kracknol losing against Barthleby! :P But with all the recent changes of the rules, my aasimar isn't unbeatable anymore. :weep: ;)
SauroGrenom 06-21-06, 01:20 PM	I guess, it is wrong because Pitlords is so used to see Kracknol losing against Barthleby! :P But with all the recent changes of the rules, my aasimar isn't unbeatable anymore. :weep: ;) The last two times I fought Barthleby I couldn't risk writing grappling tactics. Barthleby could polymorph into a good grappler and would beat the crap out of me if I tried to grapple (Kracknol didn't have armor spikes). Also the first time we clashed Kracknol could only fly with potions. Kracknol has grown up a bit since that first loss to your Aasimar.
DSugui 06-21-06, 01:50 PM	Ten Vermond (Soullord) vs. Annalina Vale (Zevox) is up HERE I hope it's ok with everyone, because I didn't have much time to run it.
Zevox 06-21-06, 01:59 PM	Well, there is the little matter that Annalina should've used her wand to heal once she was at 10 or less hp, but otherwise the fight looks fine to me. That slew of good rolls for the horse and bad ones for Annalina was a big problem. No need to edit it for the wand, I'd rather just take it as is and set Annalina up for another fight this weeek. Thanks a lot for getting it finished in time :) . Zevox
SoulLord 06-21-06, 02:56 PM	Ten Vermond (Soullord) vs. Annalina Vale (Zevox) is up HERE I hope it's ok with everyone, because I didn't have much time to run it. Well winners usually dont complain and since my opponent is ok with it im also ok with it thanks for running the fight again.