Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lonewolf 03-15-06, 02:41 PM	Deadline for this week is up in about 70 minutes. Post any comments or concerned for this weeks fights in this thread, be aware of the Rules of Gladius, be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't feed the pitlords, and above all, have fun!
MindWandererB 03-15-06, 02:51 PM	Post any comments or concerned for this weeks fights in this thread, be aware of the Rules of Gladius, be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't feed the pitlords, and above all, have fun!Hey, speak for yourself. Donations of food are cheerfully accepted over here. Don't think it'll sway your fight, though. It looks like despite King Uther's generous offer to intervene, both of my characters will be held over this week. And neither of them even have anything to do for a Full Activity to make up for it. Ah, well, happens to everyone, I suppose.
Gonbow 03-15-06, 03:42 PM	Another week, another rumble. Though my two destroyeresses are both otherwise engaged (Tatyana and Yasha), the ECL 6 bracket shall tremble in fear as Lortavos returns to the fray! Bwahahahaha!
Pitlords 03-15-06, 06:06 PM	As far as I can see, we have Pitlords for about 30 fights. We need at least 10 more, not counting the late fights that are held over. Send me a PM if you can pitlord an additional fight this week. I will now begin to set the characters ready and roll pairings. This will take an hour or so. If there are still not enough pitlords, I will do the emergency trick again. :(
SoulLord 03-15-06, 06:16 PM	Gus << Feels Guilty for not pitlording. I promise as soon as I get an Internet conection at Home I'll resume pitlording Hopefully I'll be able to buy a modem and get an internet conection next weekend.
Zevox 03-15-06, 06:21 PM	Well, that would suck :( . If the State of Emergency returns one of my characters that was going to activate this week can't. Since Featylec's going on a full quest, that means either Asran's MQ is cancelled or Destra is waiting another week to get into a fight and train her new pets.... *sigh* I wish I could pitlord another fight, but until summer rolls around I can't make time for more than one and still to keep up with and do well on my homework. Sorry :( . Zevox
Pitlords 03-15-06, 07:45 PM	PAIRINGS DONE Credits tomorow Enjoy
lonewolf 03-15-06, 07:55 PM	and I did it again. forgot to change the date while updating Finrod to ECL4. :nonono: If its possible, I would like to have him paired, if not I understand. :help:
Zevox 03-15-06, 07:55 PM	No state of emergency? Great :) . Hmm... All vs All for Destra. Blech. Oh well. Maybe I ought to consider bringing in Cararaumo and Carcalce even though they don't know any tricks yet... @ Pittbull - Destra tactics will be forthcoming either tonight or tomorrow afternoon. Zevox
Turin 03-15-06, 08:06 PM	Tactics for Ivangar vs Karen [week 2] forwarded to TheMagister. I've got a quest I want to do next week so pretty-pretty-please don't let this fight be held over an extra week! :D In two more weeks I'll have a two week vacation from my night-time degree work, so I'll be able to pick up some extra fights and do my part to alleviate the near-state-of-emergency for that time.
Caterane 03-15-06, 08:09 PM	Balbanes and Samuel's Monster Fight is set up. @Lonewolf: Sorry, out of pitlords
Argaud 03-15-06, 08:13 PM	As far as I can see, we have Pitlords for about 30 fights. We need at least 10 more, not counting the late fights that are held over. Send me a PM if you can pitlord an additional fight this week. I did send you a PM earlier this afternoon. I guess it got lost in the limbo of the boards. Basically it was to offer pitlording one battle this week, but I see it is not longer necessary.
lonewolf 03-15-06, 08:16 PM	The Quest for Featylec Elendi is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8701582#post8701582).
DSugui 03-15-06, 08:17 PM	Valek Usher (DSugui) miniquests to join WAR: DSugui [Miniquest] I think I cannot run a MQ for myself... Also, Daisy has no questlord. Is there anyone who can take her quest?
Caterane 03-15-06, 08:23 PM	@DSugui: You don't have to use a seperate thread. Send Monster information and request tactics. That's similar to a monster fight and faster than a regular arena match ;) I should probably read before I answer I'll assign it to ARGAUD!
lonewolf 03-15-06, 08:34 PM	Can DSugui then pitlord a fight with Finrod? *ducks*
MindWandererB 03-15-06, 08:38 PM	@Gonbow: Tactics for Sunstroke's hold-over have been forwarded. @Nickbeat: Never heard from you about last week's fight, which Gonbow is now taking, so I hope you can handle this week's. Tactics have been sent, in any event. Should be simple enough. @Ariel23: Heh, I kept meaning to send on some opinions and advice about what to do with Evaine, but I guess it's a good thing I didn't. A rather substantial weakness of hers is about to be exploited, if my rolls don't totally forsake me.
TheMagister 03-15-06, 08:41 PM	@my gladiators - tactics received from both Turin and lonewolf. Fight should be up early tomorrow morning, barring super-busyness at work. TM
NiQil 03-15-06, 08:45 PM	@ Caterane: I noticed that you have Kracknol (SauroGrenom) using a full activity this week to craft as well as being paired in the ECL 8 bracket...is the crafting a reflection of his fight not getting posted last week (and thus getting a retro-active full activity in compensation), or is this an error? I want to make sure I have my guild records accurate.
Argaud 03-15-06, 08:49 PM	@DSugui: You don't have to use a seperate thread. Send Monster information and request tactics. That's similar to a monster fight and faster than a regular arena match ;) I should probably read before I answer I'll assign it to ARGAUD! Ack! I was asking for an arena battle, I have no not sure if I can run a mq (but I will try). @DSugui: please PM what do you want, I will read a few quests tomorrow and try to learn the formatting.
Mal-2 03-15-06, 09:26 PM	@Gonbow: I was looking over Lortavos to write tactics, and I came across something I don't understand. How do you qualify for Deflect Arrows without Improved Unarmed Strike? I see that he's had it for a couple levels now, so I assume this must have come up before. Is there a house rule or something from the Monster Manual that I've missed?
NiQil 03-15-06, 10:13 PM	@Gonbow: I was looking over Lortavos to write tactics, and I came across something I don't understand. How do you qualify for Deflect Arrows without Improved Unarmed Strike? I see that he's had it for a couple levels now, so I assume this must have come up before. Is there a house rule or something from the Monster Manual that I've missed? Here is your answer, as per the Court Decisions post: Q: Do natural attacks of some type count the same as the feat Improved Unarmed Strike as far as meeting prereq's for other feats? A: Yes. Because there are monsters in the MM that possess feats that require IUS as a prereq who don't have it, but have natural attacks instead, any creature that has natural attacks does not need IUS to qualify for other feats that list IUS as a prereq.
NiQil 03-15-06, 10:30 PM	@ Pittbull: Tactics for Famine in giant clusterpuck sent via PM. @ Turin: Tactics for Pestilence sent via PM. @ Dracazar: Tactics for Death sent via PM.
SauroGrenom 03-15-06, 10:39 PM	@ Caterane: I noticed that you have Kracknol (SauroGrenom) using a full activity this week to craft as well as being paired in the ECL 8 bracket...is the crafting a reflection of his fight not getting posted last week (and thus getting a retro-active full activity in compensation), or is this an error? I want to make sure I have my guild records accurate. The crafting is a retro-active full activity. I asked for it because my fight was held over.
StoneTree 03-15-06, 11:11 PM	I'm a bit concerned. My first fight, and my Pitlord is MysticMonk. Problem is, the private message to him or her bounces... no such person. I assumed that I'm supposed to send one to MysticMonk2005. Is this true, or have I dropped my tactics into the aether forever?
NiQil 03-15-06, 11:19 PM	I'm a bit concerned. My first fight, and my Pitlord is MysticMonk. Problem is, the private message to him or her bounces... no such person. I assumed that I'm supposed to send one to MysticMonk2005. Is this true, or have I dropped my tactics into the aether forever? Yes, MysticMonk2005 is your pitlord. Cat has this rather annoying :P habit of dropping characters at the end of people's names when he does pairings. So instead of MysticMonk2005, MindWandererB and Malither76, we often get MysticMonk, MindWanderer and Malither, as an example.
Zevox 03-15-06, 11:21 PM	I'm a bit concerned. My first fight, and my Pitlord is MysticMonk. Problem is, the private message to him or her bounces... no such person. I assumed that I'm supposed to send one to MysticMonk2005. Is this true, or have I dropped my tactics into the aether forever? Yep, you want MysticMonk2005. I don't know why Pitlords does that, leaving parts of names out in the pairings. It causes problems like this for new players. Zevox
StoneTree 03-15-06, 11:46 PM	Awesome. Long, rambling tactic sent. And then, thirty seconds later, two major improvements occured to me. Ah, well, live and learn.
TheMagister 03-15-06, 11:54 PM	Ivangar the Exile vs. Karen Douglas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8703076&postcount=391) is up for your viewing pleasure. Short, brutal, and devastating. Just like I like 'em. TM
TheMagister 03-15-06, 11:56 PM	Awesome. Long, rambling tactic sent. And then, thirty seconds later, two major improvements occured to me. Ah, well, live and learn. Final Tactics aren't due until Friday in the afternoon sometime (check the rules of gladius for that time...I believe it's 9pm GMT), so "improvements" MUST be accepted if they are submitted any time before that deadline and NOT AFTER the fight posts. So, send another PM. Your pitlord would actually probably appreciate it, if it makes the fight more competitive. BTW, haven't seen you around. Welcome! TM
Zevox 03-16-06, 12:38 AM	@ Pittbull - Lengthy tactics for Destra for that crazy All vs All have been pmed. Good luck on that one. Zevox
StoneTree 03-16-06, 12:43 AM	Final Tactics aren't due until Friday in the afternoon sometime (check the rules of gladius for that time...I believe it's 9pm GMT), so "improvements" MUST be accepted if they are submitted any time before that deadline and NOT AFTER the fight posts. So, send another PM. Your pitlord would actually probably appreciate it, if it makes the fight more competitive. And yes, yes they do. Thanks for the welcome! I took one look and realized I just had to be a part of this. I'm looking forward to performing well against warriors and terribly against spellcasters. Wish me luck!
DarthVegan 03-16-06, 01:33 AM	My tactics have been submitted via PM to Lonewolf. This is my first foray into the arena, so I hope Micah doesn't let me down. ;)
MindWandererB 03-16-06, 04:00 AM	@StoneTree and DarthVegan: And a welcome from me, as well. It's nice to see new folks around here who can actually construct complete and properly-spelled sentences, and whose character sheets aren't so filled with mistakes that they're almost unplayable. I hope you both enjoy yourselves here. (P.S.: StoneTree, there are some errors on Clavis. I'll post them in the Prison.)
TheMagister 03-16-06, 04:15 AM	And yes, yes they do. Thanks for the welcome! I took one look and realized I just had to be a part of this. I'm looking forward to performing well against warriors and terribly against spellcasters. Wish me luck! You'll need it. The power-curve difference between warrior-types and spellcaster-types is oh-so-evident here (with the magicusers being on the higher part of the curve). I'm trying to develop anti-caster tactics for my fighter/barbarian, Sdentch. It's just not easy when your best anti-invisibility weapon is eight bags of flour and ranged TWF. ... why are you laughing? TM
Ravashack 03-16-06, 05:38 AM	Before I forget to write it down, PMed Perius's tactics to MindWandererB.
Pitlords 03-16-06, 05:53 AM	Evaine (Ariel23) vs. Aerryl Nalladar (MindWandererB) : Nickbeat funnymanmike
lonewolf 03-16-06, 07:33 AM	Ivangar the Exile vs. Karen Douglas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8703076&postcount=391) is up for your viewing pleasure. Short, brutal, and devastating. Just like I like 'em. TM At last a fight wents exactly as I thought it would. :w00t: EDIT: One small thing though: I wrote in the tactics to manifest Animal Affinity from memory and not from a powerstone. please correct this.
Turin 03-16-06, 08:50 AM	Ivangar the Exile vs. Karen Douglas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8703076&postcount=391) is up for your viewing pleasure. Short, brutal, and devastating. Just like I like 'em.Oh man! That was almost embarassingly bad. I don't know what I was thinking when I read Karen's character sheet. I think I got mentally stuck on the pegasus and assumed she wouldn't be able to use expansion... that and I totally missed her having grip of iron. I never had a chance! Augh! Congradulations, lonewolf! And look, the PSI guild gets the same cash either way! :D
waywreth 03-16-06, 09:00 AM	@Skojar - Tactics for Gaston sent via PM @Caterane - Tactics for Loquan sent via PM And a question: Is this statement true or false - "Followers always have NPC levels only. They cannot be clerics or wilders." The only quote I could find in the SRD was as such: Number of Followers by Level The character can lead up to the indicated number of characters of each level. Followers are similar to cohorts, except they’re generally low-level NPCs. Because they’re generally five or more levels behind the character they follow, they’re rarely effective in combat. Followers don’t earn experience and thus don’t gain levels. However, when a character with Leadership attains a new level, the player consults the table above to determine if she has acquired more followers, some of which may be higher level than the existing followers. (You don’t consult the table to see if your cohort gains levels, however, because cohorts earn experience on their own.)
Vathelokai 03-16-06, 09:10 AM	Tactics recieved from SauroGrenom (Kraknol). Tactics for Hassan vs Ignatius sent to Abyssal Stalker. Let me know if I spelled the name wrong.
Zevox 03-16-06, 09:30 AM	Is this statement true or false - "Followers always have NPC levels only. They cannot be clerics or wilders." False, I'd say. The rules say that followers are "generally low-level NPCs", but doesn't say a thing about them being restricted to NPC classes. I'd say theres no reason followers can't have levels in PC classes. Zevox
Turin 03-16-06, 09:46 AM	@ Dracazar: Tactics for Hexacious vs Death sent. Looks like it's going to be a bad week for my PCs!
Dracazar 03-16-06, 10:00 AM	@TaggIIV: Cher's tactic sent @Skojar: Shaz's tactic sent @Zevox: Uilo's tactic sent @Caterane: Drac crafts: Craft Headband of Intellect +2 ..........[2000.0gp,160 xp] Scroll of Obscuring Mist(C) ....... [CL2] [ 25.0 gp, 2 xp] Scroll of Shocking Grasp(C) ....... [CL5] [ 62.5 gp, 5 xp] Scroll of Shocking Grasp(C) ....... [CL5] [ 62.5 gp, 5 xp] Scroll of Shocking Grasp(C) ....... [CL5] [ 62.5 gp, 5 xp] Scroll of Shocking Grasp(C) ....... [CL5] [ 62.5 gp, 5 xp] Scroll of Magic Missile(C) ........ [CL5] [ 62.5 gp, 5 xp] Scroll of Magic Missile(C) ........ [CL5] [ 62.5 gp, 5 xp] Scroll of Magic Missile(C) ........ [CL5] [ 62.5 gp, 5 xp] Scroll of Magic Missile(C) ........ [CL5] [ 62.5 gp, 5 xp] Scroll of Fox's Cunning(C)......... [CL3] [ 75.0 gp, 6 xp] Scroll of Fox's Cunning(C)......... [CL3] [ 75.0 gp, 6 xp] Scroll of Alter Self(C)............ [CL3] [ 75.0 gp, 6 xp] Scroll of Alter Self(C)............ [CL3] [ 75.0 gp, 6 xp] Scroll of Alter Self(C)............ [CL3] [ 75.0 gp, 6 xp] Scroll of Invisibility(C).......... [CL3] [ 75.0 gp, 6 xp] Scroll of Invisibility(C).......... [CL3] [ 75.0 gp, 6 xp] Scroll of Mirror Image(C).......... [CL3] [ 75.0 gp, 6 xp] Scroll of Vampiric Touch(C)........ [CL5] [187.5 gp,15 xp] Scroll of Vampiric Touch(C)........ [CL5] [187.5 gp,15 xp] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[3500.0gp,280 xp] @Niqil: Death's tactic received @Turin: Hexacious Pogboomer's tactic NOT received
Zevox 03-16-06, 10:13 AM	@ Dracazar - Tactics for Uilo recieved, thank you. Zevox
Pittbull 03-16-06, 10:36 AM	@My gladiators: I received tactics from Zevox (plus add-on) and NiQil. The other two are missing, please consider the downtime of the boards and send me your tactics soon. Thanks! @Cat: Barthleby's tactic has been sent by E-Mail.
SauroGrenom 03-16-06, 10:49 AM	And look, the PSI guild gets the same cash either way! :D Actuall having the fight held over was the worst possible outcome for PSI. It was bad enough that one of our two best gladiators must loose the battle, but also to have the battle held over is as if neither had been active that week. We lost out on at least 200gp from the hold over. Meh. Stuff happens.
Turin 03-16-06, 10:52 AM	@Turin: Hexacious Pogboomer's tactic NOT receivedWas sent via email, per the Pitlords roster. But I've sent a PM with them now. @SauroGrenom: oh, duh. Everyone should stop listening to me today... I think I'm overworked or something.
Argaud 03-16-06, 11:16 AM	@My gladiators: I received tactics from Zevox (plus add-on) and NiQil. The other two are missing, please consider the downtime of the boards and send me your tactics soon. Thanks! Tactics for Korinel sent by PM. That 4-sided FFA is going to be a nightmare.
funnymanmike 03-16-06, 12:01 PM	Just looking for confirmation on a few things Evaine Dreamseeker = ECL5 Aerryl Nalladar= ECL5 + Light Warhorse "Prey" (CR 1) = ECL6? (druid's animal companion does not count correct) can someone send me the link to coco.php to run the fight? Tactics recived from MindWandererB
Azarias 03-16-06, 12:18 PM	@ Lonewolf - tactics sent for Huginn. @ DSugui - tactics sent for Marvell.
StoneTree 03-16-06, 12:32 PM	(P.S.: StoneTree, there are some errors on Clavis. I'll post them in the Prison.) Ooooh, whups, I did a worse job than I thought I did--mostly in not notarizing things properly, but there were some real boners in there too. Doublechecking... I can't fix my character sheet now, but have to wait until after my fight? Or should I fix them immediately?
lonewolf 03-16-06, 12:35 PM	Doublechecking... I can't fix my character sheet now, but have to wait until after my fight? correct
Caterane 03-16-06, 01:36 PM	Tactics received for Barthleby, Loquan, and Balbanes/Samuel. @Lonewolf: Igrathor is back!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAAA :evillaugh
Stormwind 03-16-06, 01:45 PM	@King Uther: Tactics for Cyra in ECL7 FFA sent by PM.
TheMagister 03-16-06, 02:07 PM	At last a fight wents exactly as I thought it would. :w00t: EDIT: One small thing though: I wrote in the tactics to manifest Animal Affinity from memory and not from a powerstone. please correct this. Show me extra power points and I'll change it. As far as your character sheet is concerned, you've prebuffed with a 5 pt. dissolving weapon, using all of your allowance. TM
Vecnoran 03-16-06, 02:25 PM	@Pittbull: Tactics for Danidus sent
Zevox 03-16-06, 02:53 PM	@ Kaigan - Tactics for Feradeth recieved, thanks you, and a slight issue has been PMed. Fight should be up saturday. Show me extra power points and I'll change it. As far as your character sheet is concerned, you've prebuffed with a 5 pt. dissolving weapon, using all of your allowance. TM Prebuffs come out of a seperate 1/3 of your allotance from the arena 1/3, so using pp to manifest a prebuff does not count against your pp usable in the arena. He can do it. Zevox
TheMagister 03-16-06, 03:27 PM	Well I'll be doggoned, you sure are right, Z. Man, dissolving weapon is a load of cheapness. I'll adjust it in the expendables section of the fight. TM
Erithmu 03-16-06, 03:41 PM	@Abyssal Stalker: Tactics for ignatius sent.
MindWandererB 03-16-06, 04:17 PM	Just looking for confirmation on a few things Evaine Dreamseeker = ECL5 Aerryl Nalladar= ECL5 + Light Warhorse "Prey" (CR 1) = ECL6? (druid's animal companion does not count correct) can someone send me the link to coco.php to run the fight? @Ariel23 & MindWandererB The sooner the better, just to make sure everything is in order in time. TyTactics have been fowarded on to you. We use special rules for allies in the CoCo: you use our own ECLs to determine the base amount of XP/GP, and then modify that amount based on the allies that are brought into the fight. In this case, if I bring Prey, I take an 8.33% penalty to earnings and Evaine gets an 8.33% bonus. You can find the rules for figuring this out here. The battle map is here (http://www.hwx.it/coco/). FYI, the dice roller is here (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/), the distance calculator is here (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php), and the fight template is here. Doublechecking... I can't fix my character sheet now, but have to wait until after my fight? Or should I fix them immediately?After the deadline, you are not allowed to make any changes to the sheet or you forfeit your match. I recommend hitting "edit" or "quote," saving the code of your sheet to a .txt file, making the changes and saving them locally, and pasting it in when your fight goes up. Make sure you point out any relevant mistakes (like your HP) to your pitlord when you send tactics. @Macbrea & Ravashack: Tactics recieved. I will likely get the fight up on Saturday.
Gonbow 03-16-06, 04:28 PM	@Macbrea Tactics for Lortavos sent. @Gladiators Tactics for all participants recieved... @ViezeFurr Your tactics have some serious... issues. Please see the PM I sent you.
King Uther 03-16-06, 04:39 PM	@Questers All quests will be replied to tonight. Stupid work.
lonewolf 03-16-06, 05:58 PM	@Lonewolf: Igrathor is back!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAAA :evillaugh damn it I was expecting a night hag instead. It could work anyway, depending what the other creature is.
TheMagister 03-16-06, 07:21 PM	@Caterane - vewwy vewwy sneeky tactics for the TWH vs. Loquan battle sent via PM. Man, if this works... TM
Dracazar 03-16-06, 07:58 PM	Hexacious (Turin) vs Death (NiQil): Dracazar [ECL4] up
TheMagister 03-16-06, 08:06 PM	Rangefinder's awesome, buddy. I ran my fight in about three hours last night. TM
lonewolf 03-16-06, 08:07 PM	Tactics received from funnymanmike, DarthVegan and Azarias. Still waiting on tactics from Kaigan, Ariel23 and MysticMonk2005.
NiQil 03-16-06, 08:43 PM	Hexacious (Turin) vs Death (NiQil): Dracazar [ECL4] up @ Dracazar: You have our free activities backwards....Death is the mason...Hexacious is the one crafting. If you could fix that, that would be super. As far as the fight goes, I didn't see anything mechanically wrong (at first glance anyway)...however I will reserve comment on tactics until Turin responds...if he is ok with it then I will let it be, but if there are changes he would like made, I may have some things to say about how tactics were applied. Ultimately, however, this fight was determined by the two saves vs color spray, methinks.
TaggIIV 03-16-06, 10:11 PM	Tactics recieved for Cher and Manzarf, I'll run it either tomorrow or (more likely) Saturday.
Kaigan 03-16-06, 10:54 PM	I've sent all my tactics in. Just waiting on Dsugui and Luni for info about quests.
DSugui 03-16-06, 11:14 PM	I've sent all my tactics in. Just waiting on Dsugui and Luni for info about quests. I've PMed you some info about the quest, it was about 9PM GTM when I did. If you didn't receive (the boards were a bit slow at the time) please let me know and I will resend them.
MysticMonk2005 03-16-06, 11:19 PM	@Lonewolf: Tactics for Tueor sent via PM
Sunwolf 03-16-06, 11:21 PM	@King Uther tactics for Leif in ECL 7 FFA sent by PM
Kaigan 03-16-06, 11:35 PM	I've PMed you some info about the quest, it was about 9PM GTM when I did. If you didn't receive (the boards were a bit slow at the time) please let me know and I will resend them. Oh yeah, i've got them. It will have to start on saturday, as that is when I am free mostly.
StoneTree 03-17-06, 11:03 AM	...point out any relevant mistakes (like your HP) to your pitlord when.... I wasn't gonna comment on the (mostly correct) errors posted on the prison thread until after the fight, but I should touch on that one at least... it's the one most likely to actually matter (besides the errors in the default tactics session) and the one people keep mentioning. The feat Craft Conwhatchamacallet Crystal is not a [psionic] feat, but rather an [Item Creation] feat, albiet one that has manifester level 3rd as a prerequisite. The feat Psionic Body gives me 2 hitpoints for each psionic feat I have-- 6 extra hit points for 3 feats, not 8 for 4. 21 hitpoints should therefor be correct... 4 + (2 * 2.5[level]) + (3 * 2[con]) + (3 * 2[feats]) = 4 + 5 + 6 + 6 = 21. I don't deserve 23 hit points! I'm a psion in a tin can! I'm also going to lose pretty hardcore due to a misunderstanding of the suggestion spell... but eh. I've already decided on a Bard/Fighter character I'll whomp together next.
Dracazar 03-17-06, 11:08 AM	@ Dracazar: You have our free activities backwards....Death is the mason...Hexacious is the one crafting. If you could fix that, that would be super. As far as the fight goes, I didn't see anything mechanically wrong (at first glance anyway)...however I will reserve comment on tactics until Turin responds...if he is ok with it then I will let it be, but if there are changes he would like made, I may have some things to say about how tactics were applied. Ultimately, however, this fight was determined by the two saves vs color spray, methinks. I'll fix free activities asap. What is your problem with how I applied the tactics? Yes the fight was determined by the saves, You know that in your tactic.
waywreth 03-17-06, 11:10 AM	@Caterane - vewwy vewwy sneeky tactics for the TWH vs. Loquan battle sent via PM. Man, if this works... TM Shouldn't be too hard to beat Loquan. His lack of damage potential is a major issue - but the goal is to make (slowly at this rate) 6th level and take "thrallherd". Being tagged as a "failure" won't hurt him either since the standard leadership modifiers don't apply.
Turin 03-17-06, 11:19 AM	I'll fix free activities asap. What is your problem with how I applied the tactics? Yes the fight was determined by the saves, You know that in your tactic.I have no idea how I messed up my spell-levels, especially after I thought to myself "you know, that doesn't look right." As I complained earlier this week, I've been working like a dog the last couple weeks, so I guess that's my excuse for stupidity. In any event, I think NiQil is thinking that he should have attempted to move to range because his tactics say "If I can stay at range..." I think the statement he has above "Once in melee range..." is supposed to be associated with "If I lose my bow..." So that's probably the complaint -- he should have tried to move to range once Hexacious appeared and he wasn't stunned. But all's well that ends well, I guess... to bad it didn't end so well for Dr. Pogboomer. Apparently I need to take a good hard look at both my active PCs over the next week and make sure they're really doing what I want them to be doing!
Book5 03-17-06, 12:32 PM	@Turin - Tantactics sent! :smirk: I like the looks of this fight!
DSugui 03-17-06, 12:43 PM	I have a doubt on how to interpret the vulnerability rule: Such a creature takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from the effect, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed, or if the save is a success or failure. Does this mean that: a) A creature with vulnerability does not make save, just take normal damage +50%; b) A creature with vulnerability that successful saves take (normal damage + 50%)/2; c) A creature with vulnerability that successful saves take (normal damage/2) + 50%. Need some clarification in this point.
Macbrea 03-17-06, 02:03 PM	Here is what the FAQ says about that: If a monster has resistance and vulnerability to the same kind of damage (such as fire), which effect is applied first? And when does the saving throw come in? Always roll a saving throw before applying any effects that would increase or reduce the damage dealt. For example, if a frost giant is struck by a fireball that would deal 35 points of damage, it would roll its Reflex save, then apply its vulnerability to fire after determining how much damage the fireball would normally deal. If the save failed, the frost giant would take 52 points of damage: 35 + one-half of 35 (17.5, rounded down to 17). A successful save would mean the frost giant suffered only 25 points of damage: one-half of 35 rounded down (17), plus one-half of 17 rounded down (8). If the creature has both resistance and vulnerability to the same kind of damage, apply the resistance (which reduces the damage dealt by the effect) before applying the vulnerability (which increases the damage taken by the creature). For example, imagine our frost giant from the previous paragraph wore a ring of minor fire resistance (granting resistance to fire 10). If the save failed, the frost giant would take 37 points of fire damage: 35 (fireball) – 10 (resistance to fire 10) = 25, plus one-half of 25 (12.5, rounded down to 12). If the save succeeded, the frost giant would take only 10 points of damage: 17 (half damage from the fireball, rounded down) – 10 (resistance to fire 10) = 7, plus one-half of 7 (3.5, rounded down to 3). As a general guideline, whenever the rules don’t stipulate an order of operations for special effects (such as spells or special abilities), you should apply them in the order that’s most beneficial to the creature. In the case of damage, this typically means applying any damage-reducing effects first, before applying any effects that would increase damage.
DSugui 03-17-06, 02:21 PM	Thanks, Macbrea. I remember I read this once, but I couldn't find it in the FAQ...
CaptainStrong 03-17-06, 02:31 PM	Tactics for Th'kali sent to DSugui a while ago.
DSugui 03-17-06, 02:33 PM	@Azarias,CaptainStrong,Katana All tactics for the hunter fight received. I will probably run it tomorrow.
Ariel23 03-17-06, 03:51 PM	@lonewolf @funnymanmike Tactics sent! Thanks for taking that fight, funnymanmike.
MindWandererB 03-18-06, 04:47 AM	Mektos (Macbrea) vs Perius (Ravashack) is up. No major surprises. I'm watching the rolls for Sunstroke's fight going up, and man, is my luck crummy. This one's going to cost me quite a few charges off my Vigor dorje, but I am incredibly glad I bought one. Hopefully I can actually land a hit before I burn it out.
KerlanRayne 03-18-06, 05:51 AM	I have a doubt on how to interpret the vulnerability rule: Does this mean that: a) A creature with vulnerability does not make save, just take normal damage +50%; b) A creature with vulnerability that successful saves take (normal damage + 50%)/2; c) A creature with vulnerability that successful saves take (normal damage/2) + 50%. Need some clarification in this point.Doesn't matter. B and C are the same thing, mathmatically. (20+10)/2 is the same as (20/2)+5. Either way, you get 75% of the damage. I can prove it too. KerlanRayne
King Uther 03-18-06, 11:37 AM	Kerlanrayne is right. 100+50%/2=75, whereas 100/2+50%=75.
SauroGrenom 03-18-06, 11:45 AM	Doesn't matter. B and C are the same thing, mathmatically. (20+10)/2 is the same as (20/2)+5. Either way, you get 75% of the damage. I can prove it too. KerlanRayne Mathematicially they are identical if you preserve the decimals. However with DnD, we round down at each stage. So if there is a save allowed, the save decreases damage by 50% then you round any decimals down. Then you apply the 50% increase in damage and round down again. I haven't worked through a bunch of examples, but I immagine that this rounding at each stage could result in a different value depending on what order you perform the 50% increase and the 50% decrease.
SauroGrenom 03-18-06, 11:50 AM	whatever.
King Uther 03-18-06, 11:52 AM	Edit: Not a necessary comment anymore.
DSugui 03-18-06, 12:23 PM	Mathematicially they are identical if you preserve the decimals. However with DnD, we round down at each stage. So if there is a save allowed, the save decreases damage by 50% then you round any decimals down. Then you apply the 50% increase in damage and round down again. I haven't worked through a bunch of examples, but I immagine that this rounding at each stage could result in a different value depending on what order you perform the 50% increase and the 50% decrease. (11 damage / 2) +50% = 7 (11 damage + 50%) / 2 = 8 It seems Sauro is correct.
Kaigan 03-18-06, 01:17 PM	@Zevox: I see that the fight is up now... Just one thing that I see. The owls cannot fly like how you did them. They cannot turn 180 degrees with average flight. Here is what they can do.. Turn: How much the creature can turn after covering the stated distance. Or Turn in Place: A creature with good or average maneuverability can use some of its speed to turn in place So to turn around, they need to fly 5 feet for every 45 degrees, they just can't turn 180 degrees then charge. Edit: Also, why can't I use the withdraw action? Double move away without provoking an attack of Opportunity.
Zevox 03-18-06, 01:26 PM	As Kaigan noted, Feradeth vs Uilo is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8718532&postcount=394) (setup) and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8719124&postcount=395) (battle). For the issues: @Zevox: I see that the fight is up now... Just one thing that I see. The owls cannot fly like how you did them. They cannot turn 180 degrees with average flight. Here is what they can do.. So to turn around, they need to fly 5 feet for every 45 degrees, they just can't turn 180 degrees then charge. They have the Wingover feat, which lets them turn 180o as a free action for 10' of movement loss. Edit: Also, why can't I use the withdraw action? Double move away without provoking an attack of Opportunity. Using the withdraw action would let you avoid an AoO for the first space of movement, but not any further. In both cases you would have provoked on the second space of movement anyway (first because you had a wall behind you, second because you were surrounded), leaving the hits as is. I suppose in the second case you could have avoided one attack that way by making the first movement space a diagnal one, but the damage still remains enough to put you into dying (exactly enough, ironically), and you then wouldn't have been able to healthat round if you had survived. Zevox
Dracazar 03-18-06, 01:55 PM	As Kaigan noted, Feradeth vs Uilo is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8718532&postcount=394) (setup) and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8719124&postcount=395) (battle). For the issues: Thank you Zevox for the nice-looking fight. Because you asked, yes the Owl was chosen for the protection :D
DSugui 03-18-06, 02:35 PM	What are the rulings in the CoCo for the Pipes of the Sewers? These wooden pipes appear ordinary, but if the possessor learns the proper tune, he can attract 1d3 rat swarms if rats are within 400 feet. For each 50-foot distance the rats have to travel, there is a 1-round delay. The piper must continue playing until the rats appear, and when they do so, the piper must make a DC 10 Perform (wind instruments) check. Success means that they obey the piper’s telepathic commands so long as he continues to play. Failure indicates that they turn on the piper. If for any reason the piper ceases playing, the rats leave immediately. If they are called again within a day, the Perform check DC is 15. If the rats are under the control of another creature, add the HD of the controller to the Perform check DC. Once control is assumed, another check is required each round to maintain it if the other creature is actively seeking to reassert its control. 1) How much time will take to the rats to come? 2) How many rats is there in a given area (specifically, in the cavern map)? 1 rat swarm is about 300 rats, so how many swarms the pipes can attract in a single battle? (Before someone says 1d3, what happens if all the rats are killed and then someone uses another pipes?)
TheMagister 03-18-06, 03:54 PM	What are the rulings in the CoCo for the Pipes of the Sewers? 1) How much time will take to the rats to come? 2) How many rats is there in a given area (specifically, in the cavern map)? 1 rat swarm is about 300 rats, so how many swarms the pipes can attract in a single battle? (Before someone says 1d3, what happens if all the rats are killed and then someone uses another pipes?) 1) Depends on the DM. 2) Depends on the DM and the location and common sense. I don't think there's a straight 1+1=2 answer to your question, although one might be decided upon. ... I like the idea, though. Good thinking! TM
DSugui 03-18-06, 04:05 PM	1) Depends on the DM. 2) Depends on the DM and the location and common sense. I don't think there's a straight 1+1=2 answer to your question, although one might be decided upon. ... I like the idea, though. Good thinking! TM Only that the idea is not mine, it's Azarias'... he wants to use that in the fight I'm pitlording, so I need an "official CoCo" rule for that...
SauroGrenom 03-18-06, 04:50 PM	I just caught two newbs editing the sheets after the deadline...here. For those pitlords who don't know, you can easily see when a character was last edited by going to the character link in the 2nd post of the character thread and clicking that. When the sheet pops up, change the text in the URL to be as follows: Change http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8564364 to http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8564364 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8564364) That'll show Raw's sheet in the thread. Also see LL Cool J (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8682367).
Gonbow 03-18-06, 05:53 PM	That was some erratic dice... Eiletha vs Sunstroke is up here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8721260&postcount=399)
MindWandererB 03-18-06, 06:07 PM	That was some erratic dice... Eiletha vs Sunstroke is up here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8721260&postcount=399)You are hilarious, man. I was totally busting up over your commentary. BTW, Sunstroke needed to make a caster level check to activate his power stone in round 1, but it was only a 10% failure chance and a 5% chance of brainburn if it failed. Probably should have used some Inertial Armor there, due to my pathetic grappling luck--and a more aggressive strategy wouldn't have hurt, either. Owl baseball! :w00t:
lonewolf 03-18-06, 07:17 PM	Riana (Ariel23) vs. Tueor Amplexus (MysticMonk2005) is up.
MindWandererB 03-18-06, 07:23 PM	Riana (Ariel23) vs. Tueor Amplexus (MysticMonk2005) is up.There is unfortunately a substantial problem. Tueor has no ability to both pin and attack in the same round--a pin only lasts one round unless re-applied the next round, leaving no room to deal damage. Unless your BAB is at least +6, or you have an ally to deal damage for you, pinning is pointless in a duel. Checking through the rolls, you apparently have Tueor performing two grapple checks per round--you appear to have him flurry-grapple, which is no longer allowed per the rule that Ariel actually mis-quoted somehow: Q: How does grappling work in combination with a monk's Flurry of Blows? A: Grappling normally allows one attack or grapple check for every attack that is supplied by the combatants base attack bonus. Since a monk's Flurry of Blows uses more than the monk's BAB to determine the number of attacks allowed to a monk in a full attack, it is not allowed to be used in a grapple.
NiQil 03-18-06, 07:38 PM	Here's the Court Decisions info on pins... Q: How long does a pin last? A: A pin lasts one round, but can be maintained each round with a successful grapple check. The person pinned can break the pin by succeeding in a grapple check, an escape artist check, or by the pinner failing their check to maintain the pin. Once the pin is broken, however, both parties are still considered grappling.
lonewolf 03-18-06, 08:10 PM	Damn It seems to me that actually both players thought that Flurry should be able to be used in a grapple, while that is not true. I am going to edit this in, but that requires me to change Tueors tactic(pinning is not a viable tactic with only one check each round and you have to use one to maintain the pin.) only to be sure: A soulknife cannot charge his Mindblade with Psychic Strike in a grapple, because it is not one of the listed options. Right?
Zevox 03-18-06, 08:14 PM	only to be sure: A soulknife cannot charge his Mindblade with Psychic Strike in a grapple, because it is not one of the listed options. Right? I would think they could, since its a purely mental action, and since using psionics (also a purely mental action) is permitted in a grapple. Of course, using psionics in a grapple takes a concentration check due to distraction, so there may be complications here... Zevox
MindWandererB 03-18-06, 08:31 PM	I would think they could, since its a purely mental action, and since using psionics (also a purely mental action) is permitted in a grapple. Of course, using psionics in a grapple takes a concentration check due to distraction, so there may be complications here...I would tend to agree with Zevox. Nothing that requires no physical movement should be prohibited from use in a grapple. The supernatural abilities of monsters can be used in a grapple, so supernatural abilities of characters should be allowed as well. It would be impossible to specifically mention psychic strike in the PHB, for obvious reasons. Now, whether concentration is necessary... I don't think so, although I'm iffy about it. Looking through the rules, I saw conflicting answers--one place says that spell-like and supernatural abilites can be used in a grapple if a Concentration check succeeds, but another says that Concentration checks are never required for supernatural abilities. The latter makes more sense to me, since supernatural abilites don't provoke AoOs and can't be disrupted if you take damage. The Concentration skill lists several actions that require concentration--casting, concentrating on a spell, directing a spell, using a spell-like ability, and using certain skills--and supernatural abilities aren't on the list. Furthermore, it says "In general, if an action wouldn't normally provoke an attack of opportunity, you need not make a concentration check to avoid being distracted." Which makes sense--why would a dragon's breath weapon, for example, require concentration? I think the former cite originally just said "...spell-like abilities, providing it succeeds on a Concentration check" and they added supernatural later.
Turin 03-18-06, 10:04 PM	Tan (Book5) vs Pestilence (NiQil) is up. This took me forever to do, so hopefully you guys are happy with it. It was a fun fight, though.
Biota 03-18-06, 10:37 PM	Alagar (King Uther) vs Jonathon (Abyssal Stalker) [ECL 5] is up. See the amazing grappling horse in action! Who will be the last horse standing? Find out here. You can also see Alagar and Jonathon fight though that isn't nearly so interesting as the horse battle. Biota
NiQil 03-18-06, 10:39 PM	Tan (Book5) vs Pestilence (NiQil) is up. This took me forever to do, so hopefully you guys are happy with it. It was a fun fight, though. I didn't pull it apart mechanically, but you ran my tactics exactly as I wished them to be run...good job. I couldn't buy a good roll there for awhile...fortunately my biggest fear (sleep) never came into play. I also wanted to say that your fight format is much better than the last time you ran a fight of mine...kudos there as well. Also....you are correct about using my waraxe one-handed....that is intentional. The reason is that if I use it two-handed, I lose the shield bonus to AC from my buckler. So, in answer to your comment, I would have said something if you had run it two-handed, because I have it listed as one-handed for exactly that reason LOL
MysticMonk2005 03-18-06, 10:52 PM	Still waiting on Hubbabubba's tactics.
MindWandererB 03-18-06, 11:24 PM	I'm watching the rolls go down on Aerryl's fight against Evaine, and I can already point out some fight-altering mistakes. I hope funnymanmike reads this before he goes any further, or at least before he posts the fight. First of all, the names seem to be reversed all the way through after round 0. There's a Concentration check in round 11 that can't be there. Aerryl should be using the PoP in that round and casting on the next. And unless Evaine is readying vs. casting (which it doesn't look like she's doing), no Concentration check should even be necessary. Evaine's AC cannot possibly be higher than 18: +5 from the +1 chain shirt, +4 from Force Screen, and -1 from Dex (because she is Entangled). So several attacks against her should have hit. Aerryl's AC, on the other hand, should be at least 19, and will be 23 every time she makes a successful Ride check to take cover from her mount. She seems to be getting hit on 16's, which makes no sense. And she's clearly never making Ride checks. And at what is obviously the end, there's a 20 foot fall that deals 2d10 damage. Aerryl was supposed to be at least 30' above the ground, plus she has a 50% chance to stay in the saddle, plus falling does 1d6 damage per 10 feet fallen. Of course, this is moot because of all the earlier errors.
Azarias 03-19-06, 04:35 AM	@ DSugui - I imagine it's not the done thing to give input at this point, but "he can attract 1d3 rat swarms if rats are within 400 feet" is relevant. And different from "he can attract the rats that are within 400 feet" or somesuch. The tme the swarms take is much more moot, though. Sorry if I've caused you grief, mate...
funnymanmike 03-19-06, 02:11 PM	Evaine (Ariel23) vs. Aerryl Nalladar (MindWandererB) : funnymanmike [ECL5] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8726824&postcount=407) Its up, start sending in complaints so i can get things looked after :)
MindWandererB 03-19-06, 03:48 PM	Evaine (Ariel23) vs. Aerryl Nalladar (MindWandererB) : funnymanmike [ECL5] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8726824&postcount=407) Its up, start sending in complaints so i can get things looked after :) See my complaints three posts up. You apparently set up the numbers using the correct characters, but then played them backwards--you gave Evaine (the Psychic Warrior) the 19 AC (which belongs to Aerryl, the druid), and then gave her the Force Screen on top of that! (This is particularly screwed up because part of that 19 AC is from a shield, with which Force Screen doesn't stack anyway.) I was wondering how come the person with the higher AC was getting hit on 16's, and the person with the lower AC was getting missed on 22's. Evaine's tactics have "ready to attack on any standard action." We've had this debate in the CoCo before (indeed, since Ariel has been here), and that's too vague. You have to pick a specific action to ready for. So either Evaine isn't attacking at all unless Aerryl is casting, or no Concentration check is required for the Produce Flame (which, as I said before, needs to happen a round later because the recall takes a round). You also messed up the effects of Entangle: when Entangled, you take a -2 penalty to attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. The loss of Dexterity decreases Evaine's AC and attack rolls by an additional 2. With the ACs and Produce Flame fixed, the results should obviously change. Evaine's touch AC is 9 when entangled, meaning Aerryl, with her ranged attack bonus of +8, misses only on a 1, while Aerryl's AC is 23 when she takes cover from her mount (Ride DC 15, which she never fails), which Evaine, with her ranged attack bonus of +1, hits only on a 20. Please make the corrections ASAP. This should make the fight a lot shorter, as well as cheaper. Sorry you didn't catch these earler--I was watching your rolls go up halfway into the night, seeing the mistakes and wishing I had some way of stopping you before you wasted any more hours on it. @Ariel23: Prebuffs don't count against your 1/3 spell limit--they have their own 1/3 limit as well. That's why the goodberries are so nice. Believe me, I wouldn't bother with them otherwise. And per the Rules of the Game article, you can use Ride to take cover from your mount; you just can't do it at the exact same time you take an action. You can prevent this by readying an action to attack when the rider attacks, I suppose. Finally, Entangle doesn't create plants, it only manipluates ones that are already there. It's assumed that the arena is grassy for this purpose. The pillars and ceiling don't have any grass on them, though.
funnymanmike 03-19-06, 04:18 PM	I'm watching the rolls go down on Aerryl's fight against Evaine, and I can already point out some fight-altering mistakes. I hope funnymanmike reads this before he goes any further, or at least before he posts the fight. Sorry i was working on this since yesterday and spent alot of time trying to get this right. First of all, the names seem to be reversed all the way through after round 0. I just used notepads replace all feature and replace Pla1 & Pla2, sorry about the confusing, i will change them before round 0 There's a Concentration check in round 11 that can't be there. Aerryl should be using the PoP in that round and casting on the next. And unless Evaine is readying vs. casting (which it doesn't look like she's doing), no Concentration check should even be necessary. Your on a mount & under attack, i don't understand why there wouldn't be a concentration check to be able to cast the spell, you used the pearl of power in the round before, wich gave you the abitliy to re-cast the spell, according the the pearl of power, the pearl dose not recast the spell for you, you just get the abiltiy to recast Evaine's AC cannot possibly be higher than 18: +5 from the +1 chain shirt, +4 from Force Screen, and -1 from Dex (because she is Entangled). So several attacks against her should have hit. I read entagle and didn't see antying about lose of dex but your right it makes sence, and sorry about the confusion, i still have the rolls, so in anyround you did hit, i will go and roll damage for. Aerryl's AC, on the other hand, should be at least 19, and will be 23 every time she makes a successful Ride check to take cover from her mount. She seems to be getting hit on 16's, which makes no sense. And she's clearly never making Ride checks. My understand of your tacits was that when your mount is under attack you were going to make a ride check to avoid the damage on her, as for hitting on 16's i was under the impression that that is what your AC was, however i may not have calculated in being on a mount. I will update the rounds And at what is obviously the end, there's a 20 foot fall that deals 2d10 damage. Aerryl was supposed to be at least 30' above the ground, plus she has a 50% chance to stay in the saddle, plus falling does 1d6 damage per 10 feet fallen. Of course, this is moot because of all the earlier errors. again my bad i only had you at 20, again your right maybe you should have won, i will have to go over and redo everything Evaine's tactics have "ready to attack on any standard action." We've had this debate in the CoCo before (indeed, since Ariel has been here), and that's too vague. You have to pick a specific action to ready for. So either Evaine isn't attacking at all unless Aerryl is casting, or no Concentration check is required for the Produce Flame (which, as I said before, needs to happen a round later because the recall takes a round). ok you've lost me here, ive allready commented on the concetration & Pearl of Power With the ACs and Produce Flame fixed, the results should obviously change. Please make the corrections ASAP. Fortunately, this should make the fight a lot shorter. Hopefully I can get started on the changes later tonight, but it will be most likly tomorow morning, so consider the fight not done until then. Again this is my first fight that i am running though this, i am an experinced DM, but running a fight at tabletop with a bunch of friends is alot easier.
MindWandererB 03-19-06, 04:30 PM	Your on a mount & under attack, i don't understand why there wouldn't be a concentration check to be able to cast the spell, You only make a concentration check if either 1) You are damaged while casting the spell (not just in the same round--it has to be the exact same time), or 2) you are being bothered (such as moving on a mount which is double-moving, which there is no reason to do in this case). Please reread the rules on Concentration. you used the pearl of power in the round before, wich gave you the abitliy to re-cast the spell, according the the pearl of power, the pearl dose not recast the spell for you, you just get the abiltiy to recastActivating the pearl is a standard action, casting the spell it gives you is another standard action. I cannot have activated the pearl in the same round I attack or cast. I read entagle and didn't see antying about lose of dex but your right it makes sence, and sorry about the confusion, i still have the rolls, so in anyround you did hit, i will go and roll damage for.Making sense has nothing to do with it. Check the DMG list of conditions under "entangled" and you'll find it. My understand of your tacits was that when your mount is under attack you were going to make a ride check to avoid the damage on her, My tactics say, "Always remember to use Ride to take cover." Not much room for error on that one. ok you've lost me here, ive allready commented on the concetration & Pearl of PowerAh. Apparently you need to re-read the rules on readied actions as well, since that's what Evaine was trying to do, and that's the only way you can disrupt a spell with a casting time of 1 standard action. Again this is my first fight that i am running though this, i am an experinced DM, but running a fight at tabletop with a bunch of friends is alot easier. I hate to say it, but you made a lot of mistakes that have nothing to do with CoCo rules. Readied actions and Concentration are obviously areas that you need a refresher on. I would be happy to help explain them to you, if you're not worried about bias in this case, or anyone else can give you pointers in the Tavern.
Pittbull 03-19-06, 04:37 PM	I'm running my AllvsAll-fight at the moment and just need a second statement. I believe, hide from animals ends, if you attack any creature (PC are creatures, too). Is this true? Hide from Animals Abjuration Level: Drd 1, Rgr 1 Components: S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Targets: One creature touched/level Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes Animals cannot see, hear, or smell the warded creatures. Even extraordinary or supernatural sensory capabilities, such as blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense, cannot detect or locate warded creatures. Animals simply act as though the warded creatures are not there. If a warded character touches an animal or attacks any creature, even with a spell, the spell ends for all recipients.
MindWandererB 03-19-06, 04:42 PM	I'm running my AllvsAll-fight at the moment and just need a second statement. I believe, hide from animals ends, if you attack any creature (PC are creatures, too). Is this true? Hide from Animals Abjuration Level: Drd 1, Rgr 1 Components: S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Targets: One creature touched/level Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes Animals cannot see, hear, or smell the warded creatures. Even extraordinary or supernatural sensory capabilities, such as blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense, cannot detect or locate warded creatures. Animals simply act as though the warded creatures are not there. If a warded character touches an animal or attacks any creature, even with a spell, the spell ends for all recipients. Yup, any creature. Other than, you know, accidentally stepping on an ant. D&D conveniently ignores the existence of any creature smaller than Fine.
NiQil 03-19-06, 04:43 PM	I'm running my AllvsAll-fight at the moment and just need a second statement. I believe, hide from animals ends, if you attack any creature (PC are creatures, too). Is this true? Hide from Animals Abjuration Level: Drd 1, Rgr 1 Components: S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Targets: One creature touched/level Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes Animals cannot see, hear, or smell the warded creatures. Even extraordinary or supernatural sensory capabilities, such as blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense, cannot detect or locate warded creatures. Animals simply act as though the warded creatures are not there. If a warded character touches an animal or attacks any creature, even with a spell, the spell ends for all recipients. By my reading...yes, you have it correct. Attacking a PC would cause the spell to end. The spell is primarily for avoidance and stealth....in a fight like this one, it is only gonna work well if you are playing the avoidance game.
funnymanmike 03-19-06, 04:59 PM	You only make a concentration check if either 1) You are damaged while casting the spell (not just in the same round--it has to be the exact same time), or 2) you are being bothered (such as moving on a mount which is double-moving, which there is no reason to do in this case). Please reread the rules on Concentration. Activating the pearl is a standard action, casting the spell it gives you is another standard action. I cannot have activated the pearl in the same round I attack or cast. Making sense has nothing to do with it. Check the DMG list of conditions under "entangled" and you'll find it. My tactics say, "Always remember to use Ride to take cover." Not much room for error on that one. Ah. Apparently you need to re-read the rules on readied actions as well, since that's what Evaine was trying to do, and that's the only way you can disrupt a spell with a casting time of 1 standard action. I hate to say it, but you made a lot of mistakes that have nothing to do with CoCo rules. Readied actions and Concentration are obviously areas that you need a refresher on. I would be happy to help explain them to you, if you're not worried about bias in this case, or anyone else can give you pointers in the Tavern. first of all check your attidue, or i walk away, i got nothing to lose by doing so. and read above your tactis, you said when your mount was being attack, it could be taken that way. and i think we are aruging the same point about the pearl of power, in one round you use the pear, in the NEXT round you try and cast the spell. again like i said i am going to get on fixing this stuff, so long as there is no more attitude problems that will make me want to walk away from this entire site.
CaptainStrong 03-19-06, 05:29 PM	I hate to say it, but you made a lot of mistakes that have nothing to do with CoCo rules. Readied actions and Concentration are obviously areas that you need a refresher on. I would be happy to help explain them to you, if you're not worried about bias in this case, or anyone else can give you pointers in the Tavern. If you're like this when you're playing tabletop, then I would hate to be your DM. He said it's his first fight, yet it seems you're bordering on being an arsehole. This is one of the reasons I quit the CoCo way back when.
CaptainStrong 03-19-06, 05:46 PM	Your on a mount & under attack, i don't understand why there wouldn't be a concentration check to be able to cast the spell, you used the pearl of power in the round before, wich gave you the abitliy to re-cast the spell, according the the pearl of power, the pearl dose not recast the spell for you, you just get the abiltiy to recast A concentration check is necessary, in my opinion (on a moving mount, DC 10), however not vs DC 15 as the mount is not galloping/running. Therefore, a concentration check of 14 passes. My understand of your tacits was that when your mount is under attack you were going to make a ride check to avoid the damage on her, as for hitting on 16's i was under the impression that that is what your AC was, however i may not have calculated in being on a mount. I will update the rounds Quote from tactics: Always remember to use Ride to take cover and Mounted Combat to negate hits on the bat. In case that clears anything up. Also, it doesn't say that activating a PoP is a standard action... Once per day on command, a pearl of power enables the possessor to recall any one spell that she had prepared and then cast. The spell is then prepared again, just as if it had not been cast. Usually it would say 'activating the pearl is a standard action that provokes/does not provoke attacks of opportunity'. Also, funnyman: A character is considered dead when they reach -10 HP or less. Just to let you know. :P Hope this helps any. Play nice!
Gonbow 03-19-06, 05:50 PM	A concentration check is necessary, in my opinion (on a moving mount, DC 10), however not vs DC 15 as the mount is not galloping/running. Therefore, a concentration check of 14 passes. Quote from tactics: Always remember to use Ride to take cover and Mounted Combat to negate hits on the bat. In case that clears anything up. Also, it doesn't say that activating a PoP is a standard action... Once per day on command, a pearl of power enables the possessor to recall any one spell that she had prepared and then cast. The spell is then prepared again, just as if it had not been cast. Usually it would say 'activating the pearl is a standard action that provokes/does not provoke attacks of opportunity'. Also, funnyman: A character is considered dead when they reach -10 HP or less. Just to let you know. :P Hope this helps any. Play nice! Magic items that work on Command take Standard Actions. Even Flaming Longswords (Though that lasts indefinitely, so you only need to turn it on/off once a combat)
CaptainStrong 03-19-06, 06:04 PM	Magic items that work on Command take Standard Actions. Even Flaming Longswords (Though that lasts indefinitely, so you only need to turn it on/off once a combat) Oh, didn't know that. And as for the longsword... prebuff tech? :P
DSugui 03-19-06, 06:39 PM	Marvell (Azarias) => Th'Kali (CaptainStrong) => Mizay (Katana) is up HERE In the end, the lucky one wins... Please check for errors.
Argaud 03-19-06, 06:49 PM	I'm running my AllvsAll-fight at the moment and just need a second statement. I believe, hide from animals ends, if you attack any creature (PC are creatures, too). Is this true? Hide from Animals Abjuration Level: Drd 1, Rgr 1 Components: S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Targets: One creature touched/level Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes Animals cannot see, hear, or smell the warded creatures. Even extraordinary or supernatural sensory capabilities, such as blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense, cannot detect or locate warded creatures. Animals simply act as though the warded creatures are not there. If a warded character touches an animal or attacks any creature, even with a spell, the spell ends for all recipients. Damn, seems I should have read the description of the spell more carefully :) Don't worry overmuch Pittbull, that would certainly have been more useful if Destra had brought her whole wolf pack to the arena. Or summoned more animals, as it is, it has delayed the wolf's attack a bit, and that is a good thing.
Zevox 03-19-06, 07:21 PM	Don't worry overmuch Pittbull, that would certainly have been more useful if Destra had brought her whole wolf pack to the arena. I thought about that, but decided it wasn't worth it. She just miniquested for them, so they don't know any tricks, so trying to get them to do anything would be a full round action DC25 Handle animal check at +12.... not odds I liked. With spell, if its any consolation, I missed that too. I thought it lasted for its full duration regardless of what you did. Else I wouldn't have bothered mentioning redirecting Carcaruva if you had it up, but just to wait for you to attack before ordering her to charge in. Oh well, you live and learn, eh? :) Zevox
Ariel23 03-19-06, 07:34 PM	Riana (Ariel23) vs. Tueor Amplexus (MysticMonk2005) is up. Believe me when I say I was shocked to see the pin. It's a great tactic...with teammates. There is only one reason I can think of to do it in a 1-v-1 CoCo match and that is if you had an absolute advantage: to just wait until their buffs wear off. :devil: (Is pinning "meaningful interaction" or whatever the delay rule is? God, it must be boring to watch. I know it's boring to read. Running it must be even worse.) There is unfortunately a substantial problem. Tueor has no ability to both pin and attack in the same round--a pin only lasts one round unless re-applied the next round, leaving no room to deal damage. Unless your BAB is at least +6, or you have an ally to deal damage for you, pinning is pointless in a duel. Checking through the rolls, you apparently have Tueor performing two grapple checks per round--you appear to have him flurry-grapple, which is no longer allowed per the rule that Ariel actually mis-quoted somehow: I don't think it's possible to misquote when hitting the "Quote" button. Since this makes me feel really stupid I went back and looked at it. I think what you're referring to is the Natural Weapon clarification in the last FAQ. Or else a different part of the CoCo boards. Anyway, I just went by what I had read on CoCo in the past. I'm thrilled to be wrong as I voted "no" on flurry/grappling back when that debate came up. I was dissapointed to see it pass as a "yes" with a 1 vote margin and no majority IIRC. Court Decisions (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6942869) (Search for "Flurry" takes you right to it) Q: How does grappling work in combination with a monk's Flurry of Blows? A: A monk may make a grappling check for each attack allowed to him by his Flurry of Blows once in a grapple. In the round used to initiate a grapple, he may still only make a single grapple check, just like anyone else, as per the grapple rules. This probably needs to be brought to Niqil/Caterane's attention. Something is not jibing somewhere. I would think they could, since its a purely mental action, and since using psionics (also a purely mental action) is permitted in a grapple. Of course, using psionics in a grapple takes a concentration check due to distraction, so there may be complications here...ZevoxCharging the blade is a supernatural action that still works in a null psionics area. I can't imagine why this would take a concentration check, much like the breath weapon, etc. Kind of moot since the pin will likely not take place at all. As far as the fight as is goes, it is definitely moot because she never hit with an attack (having only attacked once) so it wouldn't need to be charged.
Biota 03-19-06, 07:35 PM	This thread has an ironic name sometimes. :) Biota
CaptainStrong 03-19-06, 07:50 PM	Ha ha! And since I won against two opponents, wouldn't I get 1800 gp/xp and they would get 600 gp/xp? I'll fix my character up... that's one complicated fight. The line I like best is 'Th'kali used: Nothing'.
Gonbow 03-19-06, 07:50 PM	This thread has an ironic name sometimes. :) Biota ROFL! Quoted for savage truthery, good Sirrah.
lonewolf 03-19-06, 07:56 PM	I am starting to feel completely confused now. Yesterday after MindWandererB posted his quote of the Court Decisions, I checked in the Prison Thread myself and saw exactly the quote MindWandererB posted. Now after Ariel23 posted the different quote I went back there and checked again, only to see his interpretation of the rules. And the post hasnt been edited since then. Either I am imagining things or I have absolutely no idea what is going on here. At the moment I will leave the fight as it is, unless an elder asks me to edit it.
Ariel23 03-19-06, 08:05 PM	Evaine (Ariel23) vs. Aerryl Nalladar (MindWandererB) : Nickbeat-->funnymanmike Before I get into my comments, if funnymanmike or MindwandererB or an elder or Cat or whomever decided that this fight should be heldover, I would have no objection to that, and would rather do that than spend 8 hours arguing about the fight. I don't think funnymanmike should lose any credits, though. There's not really any stigma to making mistakes as a PL, everyone does. Some more than others, some less. The problem usually comes from people that make no effort to improve (or admit their mistakes). A rerun is optional, as obviously he has figured out, and he may not want to deal with it, either. I'm pretty relaxed, I just want everyone to be happy. Losses have no effect on my character unless she gets a [Loser] tag, I guess. But I don't just want to surrender to fix the situation, either. [Edit: I haven't looked at Funnymanmike's account, but I also feel that PL's should not be getting fights higher than their own (or previous) character's ECL. Well, you know, new PL's. I don't know how he could have an ECL 5 without previous PLing, for example. It's one thing if you've run a dozen fights but still have ECL 3's for whatever reason. Just a thought I've had many a time.] Evaine's tactics have "ready to attack on any standard action." We've had this debate in the CoCo before (indeed, since Ariel has been here), and that's too vague. You have to pick a specific action to ready for. So either Evaine isn't attacking at all unless Aerryl is casting, Ready to fire whenever Aeryll takes a standard action (looking for spells). If the "standard action" thing doesn't work and/or is too vague that's why I put in the parenthetical. I wasn't sure. Whether or not that is vague is up to the PL so I can't really complain however he runs that tactic. Obviously, I'll know next time. There are a lot of debates on CoCo. A lot more than fights, in fact. I try to read some/most/all of them but I don't hold myself to the standard of remembering every post on these forums. Maybe I have self-esteem issues and should expect more from myself. :w00t: - - - - - As far as Concentration while Riding: Concentration Skill (d20SRD) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/concentration.htm) 10 Vigorous motion (on a moving mount, taking a bouncy wagon ride, in a small boat in rough water, belowdecks in a stormtossed ship). 15 Violent motion (on a galloping horse, taking a very rough wagon ride, in a small boat in rapids, on the deck of a storm-tossed ship). There is nothing in there about "only when double-moving" or anything to that effect. It does mention galloping horses which could be a double move (only 6 mph for a human, not exactly "galloping") but might well mean Running. In any case, a bat is not even remotely a horse. I've never ridden a bat, but I hear they can be pretty bouncy, what with all the flitting about. :P Even a bat not taking a move action is still flapping its wings; this is a drastic difference between the horse and the bat. There is no such thing as a flying bat that is not "moving." [Edit: For example, sitting atop a hvy warhorse during a full attack sequence--hoof/hoof/bite. Let's even make it Uther's horse which could be grappling. That horse is not taking a single move action, let alone two, but I would guess that the full attack is a lot more violent than riding along at a standard pace for a horse.] Terms like bouncy, rough, very rough are not book definitions. Those are 100% within the DM's discretion. Of course, he should exercise discretion when making those determinations, but I don't see how anyone could say "I know for a fact that riding a bat is X and not Y difficulty." The exotic saddle is an otherwise ordinary saddle. It does nothing to make the ride less bumpy or make Concentration checks easier. (Assuming that we even knew how to figure out exactly what the DCs are.) I don't care in terms of my fight, but I would think this has come up, or is this the only flying/non-horse mount in CoCo? I guess a wolf or other quadruped is basically a horse without much need for speculation and that's mostly what's out there. Ah, I guess maybe not everyone casts spells from their flying mounts, some people likely just shoot arrows. - - - - - I don't understand what the point of this rule is:You can react instantly to drop down and hang alongside your mount, using it as cover. You can’t attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover.That seems incredibly clear to me, but what it really means is that you can't attack or cast a spell when it's someone else's turn ( because that's when you would be using this skill)? Not to direct this at MindwandererB but rather at WotC: duh However, you can instead use it as total cover, though you must give up your attacks to do so. The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells; a spellcaster can cast a spell on you by targeting the shield you are holding. How is this not the same thing? To be more specific, how is this not the exact same thing? Now we are saying you can use the Tower Shield for total cover and attack as long as you're not attacking during someone else's Initiative? (And, yes, I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't say "This is a standard action for Tower Shields but we would still like this to be used non-stop with all the attacking you want as long as it's your horse because it's sooo much easier to do riding tricks on a moving mount in combat than to hold up a board with handles in front of you." Then again, the FAQ doesn't generally employ sarcasm, either. But it should, some of those questions are pretty dumb.) - - - - - Prebuffs don't count against your 1/3 spell limit--they have their own 1/3 limit as well.I tried to find that somewhere. No wonder everyone loves Dissolving Weapon so much (well and all the other reasons.) I guess what I misremembered is that it does count against your spells known/available but not your spell points. This is moot for a psionicist. I better start prebuffing dissolving weapon on every piece of equipment I own (up to 1/3 PP). Thanks! :love: It seems to me like the AC/to-hit thing can be cleared up pretty easily with switching all the numbers as appropriate. There may be some other stuff that affects (other than HP) but still, it's a mathematically simple mistake to fix.
CaptainStrong 03-19-06, 08:23 PM	That's interesting, the whole cover thing. Is there any errata to cover this, or should someone make a rules inquiry to Wizards? The usage of that skill (to gain cover) does not take an action, therefore I think you can do it anytime. Maybe the rules text is just misleading. Maybe the DC of the concentration check should be looked at, too. Maybe an elder should invervene/rule on this,.
NiQil 03-19-06, 09:43 PM	I am starting to feel completely confused now. Yesterday after MindWandererB posted his quote of the Court Decisions, I checked in the Prison Thread myself and saw exactly the quote MindWandererB posted. Now after Ariel23 posted the different quote I went back there and checked again, only to see his interpretation of the rules. And the post hasnt been edited since then. Either I am imagining things or I have absolutely no idea what is going on here. At the moment I will leave the fight as it is, unless an elder asks me to edit it. @ lonewolf: I know why you are confused. The link Ariel23 supplied you with is the link to the old Prison, not the current one. The old Prison still has old rulings, because I stopped updating it when the old Prison thread was closed. The correct Court Decisions post is in the current Prison thread, not the one that Ariel23 linked. That is why you are getting confused. The correct ruling on grappling/FoB is below: Q:[/b] How does grappling work in combination with a monk's Flurry of Blows? A: Grappling normally allows one attack or grapple check for every attack that is supplied by the combatants base attack bonus. Since a monk's Flurry of Blows uses more than the monk's BAB to determine the number of attacks allowed to a monk in a full attack, it is not allowed to be used in a grapple. As Prisonlord, I can vouch that this is the correct information, and that the quote Ariel is supplying is from an outdated post in a closed thread. You will want to adjust your fight accordingly. If you need confirmation, go to the current Prison thread and pull up the Court Decisions post, and then pull up a new web window and open up the old Court Decisions post in the old Prison...you will see the differences. @Ariel23: Time to update your links, methinks.
KerlanRayne 03-19-06, 09:50 PM	How is this not the same thing? To be more specific, how is this not the exact same thing? Now we are saying you can use the Tower Shield for total cover and attack as long as you're not attacking during someone else's Initiative?Here is how this is not the same. A Tower Shield provides TOTAL COVER, using the ride skill only provides normal COVER. Also, if your opponent readies an attack for when you attack or cast a spell, then you can't take cover. You might be able to cancel the attack or spell and take cover, wasting the standard action, I'm not sure about that though. KerlanRayne
Luni 03-19-06, 10:10 PM	That's interesting, the whole cover thing. Is there any errata to cover this, or should someone make a rules inquiry to Wizards? The usage of that skill (to gain cover) does not take an action, therefore I think you can do it anytime. Maybe the rules text is just misleading. Maybe the DC of the concentration check should be looked at, too. Maybe an elder should invervene/rule on this,. In this case, you can claim cover when riding your mount when you aren't attacking or casting spells. It was all covered in Rules of the Game. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a) This means that you can't claim cover if someone readies to shoot at you whenever you shoot at them. You can't claim cover while casting a Full Round Spell. You can't claim cover if your attack action provokes an AoO (Charging, Sunder, Trip, Disarm, Grappling, Unarmed Strikes...) The concentration check is really low, because most spellcasters don't max out concentration obviously :rolleyes: You do add the level of the spell to the concentration checks listed above.
MindWandererB 03-20-06, 12:51 AM	I'm glad foks are helping things avoid being a shouting match between me and funnyman. CaptainStrong, I don't think you'd have a hard time being my DM at all, as long as you either knew the rules or admitted you were still learning them. And that's all the defending myself I'm going to do. Regarding riding a flying mount and casting at the same time: Under Mounted Combat in the Combat section of the PHB, you'll see that if your mount moves no more than its speed during the round, no Concentration check is necessary, and you may cast the spell either before or after the movement. It it moves more than its speed, up to twice its speed, or if it moves both before and after casting, the check is DC 10+spell level, and if it is running the check is 15+spell level. Dire bats have a maneuverabilty of "good" and thus have the ability to hover in place and not move at all. If they had a minimum speed, I would agree that you would need a DC 10+spell level check every time you cast, but they don't, so casting from the back of a hovering bat should be no harder than casting from the back of a horse that is actively trying to dodge attacks, or even fighting. @Ariel: In the case of tactics that aren't allowed, the pitlord should PM you and ask for a clarification. If funnyman had done what you suggest, and had you ready to attack on casting, Evaine would have been doing a whole lot of sitting there getting burned and not shooting back. In your position, I would have said something like "ready to attack on casting unless Aerryl attacked me on her last action, in which case ready to attack when she attacks." Not perfect, but it does what you wanted it to do, and would also negate the ability to use the bat as cover. In this case it would have happened to work perfectly, since the one chance she had to disrupt casting was in a round following one in which Aerryl did not attack (she was recalling a spell with the PoP instead).
DSugui 03-20-06, 12:53 AM	Ha ha! And since I won against two opponents, wouldn't I get 1800 gp/xp and they would get 600 gp/xp? Not really. The Rules of Gladius says: Last Man Standing gains Winner rewards, plus 1 loser rewards for every target defeated. All others gain Loser rewards, plus 1 loser rewards for every target defeated. Since none of you defeated their target, Last Man Standing gains winners rewards, and the other two gain loser rewards. (Someone please correct me if I am wrong). IMO, not much fair, but it's the way it is...
MindWandererB 03-20-06, 01:00 AM	Since none of you defeated their target, Last Man Standing gains winners rewards, and the other two gain loser rewards. (Someone please correct me if I am wrong). IMO, not much fair, but it's the way it is...I'll be someone. With a Hunter fight, it doesn't matter who deals the finishing blow; whoever was assigned to the target gets the reward. Then the person who got the reward gets a new target, whoever was the target of the dead person. When Mizay went down, Th'Kali gets the 300 reward for it, and gets assigned Marvell as his new target, who he also beat. So Th'Kali gets 900+300+300=1500, and the others get 300. I wish folks would consider abolishing Hunter fights. People rarely play them right--Marvell earned Th'Kali some free XP/GP in this fight--and pitlords seldom reward them right.
DSugui 03-20-06, 01:05 AM	I'll be someone. With a Hunter fight, it doesn't matter who deals the finishing blow; whoever was assigned to the target gets the reward. Then the person who got the reward gets a new target, whoever was the target of the dead person. When Mizay went down, Th'Kali gets the 300 reward for it, and gets assigned Marvell as his new target, who he also beat. So Th'Kali gets 900+300+300=1500, and the others get 300. I wish folks would consider abolishing Hunter fights. People rarely play them right--Marvell earned Th'Kali some free XP/GP in this fight--and pitlords seldom reward them right. Thanks, man. Hunter fights are really confusing - and unfair. I don't say we should abolish them, but a revision is more than needed... I'll fix the rewards.
Vathelokai 03-20-06, 04:22 AM	Kraknol vs. Anixx is up. Hope it dosn't hurt any feelings.
Azarias 03-20-06, 04:48 AM	@ DSugui - very nice pitlording of a complicated fight. A shame Marvell didn't win - especially since the tactics were proceeding to plan - but then I would think that. I like the way you handled the pipes. @ all - I'm away on business for three weeks from tomorrow, so Marvell and Huginn will both be sitting around twiddling their thumbs till the third week of April. Just so people know I will be back :) ... Az.
Azarias 03-20-06, 05:22 AM	er... Actually, there's a problem with the fight. Sorry dude - it's basically all so well done it seems almost a shame to bring it up, but: You have Marvell's Levitate running out on round 22. The scroll has a minimum CL3, so the duration is 30 rounds: it only runs out in round 32. What that means is entirely up to you, but Marvell has tactics for ceiling combat listed. He should really get 10 rounds of that before he descends in round 31 and the two of them clash in melee... ?
DSugui 03-20-06, 07:41 AM	Hmm... That's true... I don't know why I made it last only 2 minutes... well, I will edit it, probably the outcome will change... Ok, I edited the fight, and the results changed. Please check for errors... again...
Caterane 03-20-06, 10:26 AM	Balbanes and Samuel vs 2 Unknown Monsters is up. Beginning my next fight...
funnymanmike 03-20-06, 10:57 AM	The fight Evaine (Ariel23) vs. Aerryl Nalladar (MindWandererB) : funnymanmike [ECL5] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8726824&postcount=407) is fixed, please check updated info i did not do this fight for credit, nor after the complaints do i expect one. i did it beacuse i was under the impression that the group was low on pitlords and i wanted to help. however that being said i will offer my assistance again if needed but only ELC3 fights, again i don't want credits i don't care. Again plz let me know if there is anything ELSE wrong with this so i can fix it again. (i wanna do things right)
lonewolf 03-20-06, 11:24 AM	Balbanes and Samuel vs 2 Unknown Monsters is up. Beginning my next fight... A few things: - Even magical weapons have only a 50% chance to affect Samuel. The same goes for all targeted spells, including Dispel Magic if I am not mistaken. - As by MM Errata, a night hag has no longer Polymorph as spell-like ability, but instead has: Change Shape(Su): A night hag can assume the form of any small or medium humanoid. - Since when are "At will spelllike abilties" with a duration <16hours allowed as a prebuff? ... Unlike other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature.... From this it is clear that Outsiders are living creatures and thus vulnerable to both corrupting gaze and Draining touch. - Both Samuel and Balbanes have SR, and I see not a single Caster level check. There may be more but I dont have time to check at the moment.
Azarias 03-20-06, 11:38 AM	That looks clean to me - hope the Captain is okay with it too. I'm assuming you don't mention the activation rolls for Marvell's scrolls because he makes them all - ? (he fails on a 1). In the event, the only one that would matter would be the Levitate - the Protection was actually a bit of a waste, but comforting to have. Good fun. I've got a more evil tactic for next time Marvell has to push the boat out, but it'll have to wait...
DSugui 03-20-06, 11:42 AM	That looks clean to me - hope the Captain is okay with it too. I'm assuming you don't mention the activation rolls for Marvell's scrolls because he makes them all - ? (he fails on a 1). They are shown in silver color under Marvell actions in rounds 2 and 3...
Azarias 03-20-06, 11:52 AM	If the Cap'n's content with the result, then I'm happy with it too, then.
Caterane 03-20-06, 11:56 AM	Loquan vs White Hand Barthleby vs Galgalith @Lonewolf: All weapon attacks made against Samuel were made on the Ethereal Plane and there's no miss chance. Target spells have no miss chance either; you just have to see the target. At will abilities are valid prebuffs; see Rules. All SR checks are auto-successes so I left them out. The only Spell Resistance check that is missing is that of the Zelekhut vs Balbanes but he made it with a 28 vs SR15 so no change. As for the polymorph errata, I didn't know that. The hag will then use her natural stronger form and ride on the Zelekhut. That way her movement is more or less similar to what it was on the fight. Perhaps the chocker might get one or two additional attacks on her but nothing that affects the outcome. If anything, her Mounted Combat feat helps to negate hits on the Zelekhut. Once on the ethereal plane, Samuel doesn't live long enough to kill the hag with draining touch or corrupting gaze.
Purkake 03-20-06, 12:35 PM	@Cat: Target spells do have the Incorporeal miss chance, but since Dispel Magic is an abjuration, it extends to the ethereal plane. (SRD) Even when struck by magic or magic weapons, an incorporeal creature has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source—except for a force effect or damage dealt by a ghost touch weapon.
Caterane 03-20-06, 12:40 PM	"damage"
TheMagister 03-20-06, 02:16 PM	Loquan vs White Hand Cool beans: the trap worked! @Cat - it's Perform (acting), as in the CoCo equivalent of Shakespearean plays. But hey, if drunken gladiator wannabes'll pay 150 gp to watch TWH talk to a skull (ala Macbeth), he'll go where the money is. =) TM
MindWandererB 03-20-06, 03:16 PM	The fight Evaine (Ariel23) vs. Aerryl Nalladar (MindWandererB) : funnymanmike [ECL5] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8726824&postcount=407) is fixed, please check updated info i did not do this fight for credit, nor after the complaints do i expect one. i did it beacuse i was under the impression that the group was low on pitlords and i wanted to help. however that being said i will offer my assistance again if needed but only ELC3 fights, again i don't want credits i don't care. Again plz let me know if there is anything ELSE wrong with this so i can fix it again. (i wanna do things right)Just some small things now. Most importantly, the names are still reversed; Aerryl is my character, the druid, and Evaine is Ariel's, the psychic warrior. This is the only thing that really needs to be fixed. You have Aerryl casting produce flame twice in rounds 11 and 12; I gather you mean to change round 11 to: recalls Produce Flame {Stan}. Also, there seems to be some confusion between using the Ride skill to use your mount as cover and using Mounted Combat. Those are two different types of action; I refer you to the description of the Ride skill and the Rules of the Game article on the subject. However, it didn't matter in this fight after the revision; I only mention it for your future reference.
CaptainStrong 03-20-06, 03:21 PM	... DAMN! [/stewie voice] I'm cool with that.
Ariel23 03-20-06, 04:32 PM	Dire bats have a maneuverabilty of "good" and thus have the ability to hover in place and not move at all. If they had a minimum speed, I would agree that you would need a DC 10+spell level check every time you cast, but they don't, so casting from the back of a hovering bat should be no harder than casting from the back of a horse that is actively trying to dodge attacks, or even fighting. I obviously agree bats can fly without taking a move action but disagree in that they cannot fly without moving anymore than a warhorse can full attack without moving. I haven't even read the fight, this just bugs me as a rule/mechanic. Funnymanmike reposted and I still haven't looked to see who won yet. @funnymanmike: I'm sure you'll get a credit, everyone makes mistakes. Everyone. The only reason I mentioned the credit is if the fight is heldover. @Ariel23: Time to update your links, methinks. Thanks, I'll do that.
MysticMonk2005 03-20-06, 04:51 PM	Clavis Vs Soveliss ECL3 is up. Dissapointing, but I won't complain. Remember kids! Default Tactics save lives!
Skojar 03-20-06, 05:19 PM	Gaston vs. Shaz Greatheart (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8735096&postcount=413) is up. Some extreme rolling.
Dracazar 03-20-06, 06:28 PM	Thank you for the fight, it is very nice to read and to see :) Shaz would have buffed with the powerstone, you could have asked me. @Round 2 A wilder who is overcome by psychic enervation is dazed A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC So Shaz will not lose the bow (he is dazed, not stunned) @Round 4 Shaz (perhaps) should be able to do a melee attack @Round 9 Shaz has 1 more PP, this allow him for another wildsurged vigor for 15hp Those are very small issues, think if you would add in the fight. I did some errors, next time Shaz will be tougher.
NiQil 03-20-06, 08:00 PM	@ Pittbull: I'm watching the FFA as you are posting it, and I see an error that you will want to fix now, rather than later. As per Famine's healing tactic, Famine was dropped to under 20 hp in round 12. His action in round 13 should have been spent healing instead of attacking. Hopefully you see this and can correct that before you get too much further into the battle.
TaggIIV 03-20-06, 10:17 PM	Sorry to do this with such late notice, I will still be able to finish Cher vs Manzarf tomorrow, but it would be helpful if someone could take the fight. I posted sheets tactics and start info, if anyone has free time here.
StoneTree 03-20-06, 10:32 PM	@MysticMonk2005 Yo, man. In my non-fight, you forgot to include the money I make for making Giftbaskets. (What? It's a living. Don't look at me!) Did I do something wrong? Shouldn't I get (take 10 + 10 skill) * ECL3 = 60 gold?
MysticMonk2005 03-20-06, 10:41 PM	@MysticMonk2005 Yo, man. In my non-fight, you forgot to include the money I make for making Giftbaskets. (What? It's a living. Don't look at me!) Did I do something wrong? Shouldn't I get (take 10 + 10 skill) * ECL3 = 60 gold? right sorry about that fixing.
Ariel23 03-21-06, 12:38 AM	@funnymanmike or MindwandererB *sigh* I am trying to keep track of Evaine's PP and AFAICT she had 4 PP remaining. In round 17 her HP dropped below 15 and for the 8 rounds she kept shooting at <15 HP. Even when she got down to 1 HP in Round 21 she didn't attempt to Vigor. Maybe I missed some PP somewhere and that would make everything groovy. Vigor = Healing for her It's pretty specific in the tactics. I think I could live with a lot of stuff being left out of tactics, and I know tactics can be confusing to figure out (mine are some of the worst), but healing is a pretty standard topic for these fights/tactics. It's hard for me to accept having 4 PP left over with so many rounds to re-cast Vigor. That's the same as 20 HP of healing, assuming the fight doesn't go another 40 rounds. 4 PP for her is like a cleric having a Cure Light and Cure Moderate Wounds left after 27 rounds of taking damage and no one threatening her for an AoO. 20 HP is pretty substantial for just about anyone. When a gladiator gets down to 1 HP, I think most PLs check over the sheet to see if they can be saved at the last minute, or re-check the tactics to make sure they didn't miss anything, because you know that last round/blow is going to be scrutinized the worst. I definitely understand that the odds are stacked against Evaine here. Obviously a successful crit, however unlikely, could make an enormous difference in the fight. Who really knows what might happen? I'm sure that giving her 20 HP and 6 more rounds of decent rolling by Aeryll might render the whole thing meaningless. Perhaps there's some way you can just go to the die-roller and put in 10 more attack rolls for each participant and go down the list in order until Evaine is dead, assuming fairly normal rolling on both sides. I don't think it would take long to do those rolls. I would be satisfied with that and I don't need the fight to be edited textually, unless some bizarre twist of d20 madness occurs and the result changes. I hope that's a workable solution. Splitting hairs: I didn't put this in my tactics because I knew that I would be able to remanifest Vigor during this type of fight, but in the absolute worst-case scenario, an Elan can spend her remaining PP to prevent damage when she is about to go unconscious. It is an immediate action and is basically automatic. I really don't want the 8 HP that would grant, I would obviously prefer 20, but it's something to consider. As an aside: A good system for PLing is to keep track of spell points and power points along with HP in the bottom/stat line of each round. Once it gets to 0 you can quit or just keep copying and pasting, as the case may be. In that sense, the PL is often going to have an easier time of it the sooner he can use up those extra SP and PP.
Vecnoran 03-21-06, 01:11 AM	@Pittbull Wouldn't Danidus get an AoO for Famine storing his bow?
MindWandererB 03-21-06, 01:18 AM	@Ariel: For my part, I'm willing to trade the failure to use the mount as cover as a fair trade for not getting your 20 HP from Vigor. I think you come out ahead in that trade, since Evaine should only be hitting Aerryl on a 20. And we both save arrows this way.
lonewolf 03-21-06, 01:43 AM	Riana (Ariel23) vs. Tueor Amplexus (MysticMonk2005) is up. Edits are up. didnt change anything.
Pittbull 03-21-06, 02:12 AM	@ Pittbull: I'm watching the FFA as you are posting it, and I see an error that you will want to fix now, rather than later. As per Famine's healing tactic, Famine was dropped to under 20 hp in round 12. His action in round 13 should have been spent healing instead of attacking. Hopefully you see this and can correct that before you get too much further into the battle. I've seen this too later, but it didn't change anything. @Pittbull Wouldn't Danidus get an AoO for Famine storing his bow? Oh yes, I forgot that and will roll the attack later.
Abyssal Stalker 03-21-06, 02:41 AM	Ignatius vs Hassan Sabbah is done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8734828&postcount=4129). This is definitely worth a story :)
Zevox 03-21-06, 02:45 AM	Ignatius vs Hassan Sabbah is done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8734828&postcount=4129). This is definitely worth a story :) I know I'm not involved in the fight, but something I feel I should point out - you rolled a 1d10 for Hassan's reflex save rather than a 1d20. Kinda makes it harder to make the save, eh? Zevox
Argaud 03-21-06, 07:11 AM	@Pittbull – I see that in that massive FF Korinel has already been defeated. I am not going to complain about how incredibly dumb is using a wand of healing (for minuscule healing) while all his buffs expire and two enemies are attacking him. I am not going to complain either how stupid of him was to ignore the wolf (a very easy target) after his Hide from Animals went away (since this was strictly by the letter of the tactics I sent you, if certainly not by the spirit). However, when he was badly wounded and desperately needed a few more hp (that is about the time he started used the wand – but certainly by round 19 when he suicides by withdrawing without getting cover – thus allowing a charge although his movement was certainly more than enough to prevent that and breaking LoS with Destra!) he still had a powerful resource to protect himself, and it was one that was in his tactics to use it: Korinel should have raged and attacked. I know that particular battle must be a nightmare, so I am trying not to be annoyed, but I feel that my character has been fighting like a moron, just what I asked you not to do :(
Turin 03-21-06, 07:41 AM	I know that particular battle must be a nightmare, so I am trying not to be annoyed, but I feel that my character has been fighting like a moron, just what I asked you not to do :(While I'll let Pittbull defend his own decisions himself, I did take a look at your tactics and thought I might give some advice that could help you in the future. This may sound nitpicky, but it really can make things very clear for the pitlord. Your tactics are written in long paragraphs the way you might describe them to someone verbally. Might I suggest adopting an outline form? I use this for my gladiators and find that it cuts down on the amount of questions and mistakes with regards to tactics dramatically. I write them like this: Thanks for pitlording what should prove to be a difficult fight! (add a couple of sentences giving your general impressions of the battle to come, to help the pitlord get an idea of what you're thinking.) Setup: start in the X,Y square of my starting box, with my tuna cassarole in hand. Prebuff with dissolving weapon. (Keep this part down to one or two lines.) Primary Goal: insert one-or-two line description of the overall theme of your tactics... i.e. "turn invisible, buff, and set up my one-shot-one-kill." Details: 1. Go round 2. by round 3. and describe your general sequence of tactics (each buff in turn, then your first active turn, and so forth). 4. Breaking it up by numbers makes it easy to read and lets the pitlord "check off" the steps you want to take mentally. Contingencies: 1. Write 2. a 3. series 4. of IF --> THEN statements. "If I drop below 5hp, withdraw from combat and use my wand." "If I'm flanked by both opponents, tumble past ThwapMcSmash to set up the flanking from the opposite side." "If my tuna cassarole is sundered, take a 5' step back and cast Mordenkainen's Cowering Fundamentalist." Thank the pitlord again.
Argaud 03-21-06, 08:34 AM	While I'll let Pittbull defend his own decisions himself, I did take a look at your tactics and thought I might give some advice that could help you in the future. This may sound nitpicky, but it really can make things very clear for the pitlord. Your tactics are written in long paragraphs the way you might describe them to someone verbally. Might I suggest adopting an outline form? I use this for my gladiators and find that it cuts down on the amount of questions and mistakes with regards to tactics dramatically. I write them like this: That is a good idea, really. Trying to follow 4 tactics at once and remembering everything must be almost impossible. That is one of the things that make free for alls so bad. I have read some past FFs and I have seen many dumb moves by the characters. Probably due to pitlord exhaustion, more than bad tactics. About the only thing I can think I did wrong (besides failing to understand how Hide from Animals work, which might have doomed me this time by itself) was to not to detail enough what to do with the wand of healing. Using it when a character is attacked works well for high AC non-buff reliant characters (like Pestilence) but for Korinel it is a very bad idea, his buffs vanished and he keep taking more damage than he was healing anyway. How to use that wand is something I clearly will have to explain very detailed in further battle tactics. Unfortunately it also means even longer tactics writeups. To cover most eventualities in a 4-way FFA a player will likely need several PMs to the pitlord. :(
TheMagister 03-21-06, 08:48 AM	Sorry Argaud. We've all been in your shoes, and learn that lesson sooner or later. Some, it seems, never do. Good luck in the future. TM
Pittbull 03-21-06, 08:54 AM	Sorry Argaud, but I must admit that your tactics have been pretty unstructured. Your tactic said, begin healing when he has lost more than the half of his hitpoints, so I did. Your tactic also said, if Danidus and Famine are busy, attacking Destra with melee is fine. I made a mistake with the withdraw, because I thought, that it must be in a line, like a charge, but the wolf would have able to hit you even with out the charge-bonus maybe a round later. I'm not sure, if I'm able to fix this since it took so long to run the fight, I only can say I'm sorry.
Argaud 03-21-06, 09:06 AM	Sorry Argaud, but I must admit that your tactics have been pretty unstructured. Your tactic said, begin healing when he has lost more than the half of his hitpoints, so I did. Your tactic also said, if Danidus and Famine are busy, attacking Destra with melee is fine. I made a mistake with the withdraw, because I thought, that it must be in a line, like a charge, but the wolf would have able to hit you even with out the charge-bonus maybe a round later. I'm not sure, if I'm able to fix this since it took so long to run the fight, I only can say I'm sorry. If you can fix it, great, otherwise... well, everybody makes mistakes, and my tactics needed to have been better written. If you manage to find time to fix that, though, don't have Korinel withdraw, just rage (as for the tactics) and fight to the bitter end with those 8 extra hp. If he manages to down Destra then he has a potion and the wand to heal. Probably he will be fatigued later, but at least he won't be dead.
Zevox 03-21-06, 09:07 AM	Wow. That was one hell of a FFA. Four high-ac good-to-high-hp characters duking it out and luck only seldom showing its face for anybody in the whole 32 rounds. Man, I'm sorry you had to pitlord that one Pittbull - I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. I would mention a couple of tactical things, but I really don't think they're worth it, especially since they're minor. Tactics get mangled in something like that, no way around it, nothing for it, and as far as I'm concerned you did a stellar job overall. Certainly theres no way I'd ask for an edit/rerun on that. The only numerical things I noticed were minor and change nothing, thankfully. Unless one of the others has a reason to want that thing edited or (heaven forbid) held over, I have no problem letting it stand as-is (though I suppose you could argue I'm biased on that, but I would say this even if luck had thrown things otherwise for Destra). Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 03-21-06, 09:38 AM	I know I'm not involved in the fight, but something I feel I should point out - you rolled a 1d10 for Hassan's reflex save rather than a 1d20. Kinda makes it harder to make the save, eh? Zevox Oops, don't know how'd that happen. Oh, well, I rolled the save again and the dice decided that 11 is high enough for the shocked Hassan...
Argaud 03-21-06, 09:50 AM	@Pittbull Upon further reviewing the fight more slowly I have found a couple more mistakes. Produce Flame lasts 4 minutes/level (not 3 as it seems to be stated in the fight) but unless I am misreading each attack the caster does reduces the duration in one minute. So Destra only has 4 attacks before she needs to recast the spell. Yet her spells last far longer in the fight. (I might be wrong here and actually the spell lasts 4 minutes -1 for ranged attack, not just all attacks. The SRD is not very clear). Also, in several occasions she uses the power for ranged attacks when Korinel is in melee with her wolf. In these instances she is at -4 to hit, since she does not have the Precise Shot feat. In round 16, for instance, she would have missed her attack (although as mentioned in the previous paragraph, Produce Flame might not have lasted this long).
Dracazar 03-21-06, 11:04 AM	Sorry to do this with such late notice, I will still be able to finish Cher vs Manzarf tomorrow, but it would be helpful if someone could take the fight. I posted sheets tactics and start info, if anyone has free time here. Damn, Cher vs Manzarf is already on Week2! It will go to Week3? Any pitlord please?
Pittbull 03-21-06, 11:39 AM	@Pittbull Upon further reviewing the fight more slowly I have found a couple more mistakes. Produce Flame lasts 4 minutes/level (not 3 as it seems to be stated in the fight) but unless I am misreading each attack the caster does reduces the duration in one minute. So Destra only has 4 attacks before she needs to recast the spell. Yet her spells last far longer in the fight. (I might be wrong here and actually the spell lasts 4 minutes -1 for ranged attack, not just all attacks. The SRD is not very clear). Also, in several occasions she uses the power for ranged attacks when Korinel is in melee with her wolf. In these instances she is at -4 to hit, since she does not have the Precise Shot feat. In round 16, for instance, she would have missed her attack (although as mentioned in the previous paragraph, Produce Flame might not have lasted this long). The duration was 3min because she threw her first flame in the round when she casted the spell. If we calculate 4min duration as 40rounds, throwing a flame will substract 10 rounds. So she cast the spell in round 3 and thrwos a flame (-10rounds), until round 15 she doesn't throw a flame (-12rounds), in this round she throws one(-10rounds) and in round sixteen she throws again (-10rounds). Yup, you're right the spell runs out in round 16 and she'd need to reactivate it via a pearl of power which takes two rounds. I will not be able to fix this before next pairing and even next week will be tough, since fixing this will take hours, even a complete rerun from this point might be be necessary. Sorry, I didn't made this mistake with intention and it's almost impossible to be save of errors in such a fight. So here is my sugguestion: Let's wait what the others say, I'm not afraid of a rerun and will do this for sure, but it takes time. The orginal fight took me 9+hours. So, if you don't mind to let your character sit out for some time and the others agree, I'll do this from the point on "Korinel decides to use his wand and not to rage." If I'm not able to do this next week, anybody else could volunteer, although I believe nobody wants to do this.
Ariel23 03-21-06, 12:07 PM	@Ariel: For my part, I'm willing to trade the failure to use the mount as cover as a fair trade for not getting your 20 HP from Vigor. I think you come out ahead in that trade, since Evaine should only be hitting Aerryl on a 20. And we both save arrows this way. That sounds fine to me, I didn't realize that was still out. Of course, I still don't agree riders can take cover and attack, but I guess everyone else feels that rule is meaningless, so I will go back to my corner and eat worms. @funnymanmike Don't do anything, it's fine! [I guess I would also have to disagree that this fight could get any worse if Evaine did not accept your offer. That would be difficult.]
Argaud 03-21-06, 12:16 PM	That battle was obviously hellish to run, and quite frankly, I don’t think 4-ways FFA should be played at all in the CoCo, ever. You have my sympathies in that regard, Pittbull. Yet, through no fault of my own (and not due to horrible luck with the dice either) I have been defeated in the fight. Not only that, but my thus far perfect victory record has been broken. And I not only have been defeated, but I was the first one to fall in the FFA and I will lose money due to the extensive use of expendables during the battle (500 gp worth used, not counting the wand charges!). Therefore, I politely request the mistakes to be fixed. I know some mistakes are unavoidable in a fight this complex, but still... And if there is a place to propose 4-sided FFA to be banned, I’d like to be pointed to it. As this one seems to prove, they are a nightmare for the pitlord, errors are almost unavoidable and very difficult to correct, and I think it is nearly impossible to write good tactics for them.
Ariel23 03-21-06, 12:50 PM	Any result other than #1 goes down on your sheet as a loss. So there is a 3/4 chance you will lose any FFA. Your best bets are to use few expendables so that you don't have a negative return on the fight and, frankly, to hide until its over. I don't do that and some others don't, but that's the easiest way to write tactics for these fights. Awesome, huh? ;)
King Uther 03-21-06, 01:06 PM	@Pittbull/Argaud Tomorrow I'll have some free time. I could, with your permission, edit the fight for you. I will not do a rerun, but will look at it and see what I can do. @Dracazar I'll do Cher vs Manzarf tomorrow as well if Tagg doesn't get to it.
Argaud 03-21-06, 01:30 PM	@Pittbull/Argaud Tomorrow I'll have some free time. I could, with your permission, edit the fight for you. I will not do a rerun, but will look at it and see what I can do. Much grateful, King Uther. I know it is perfectly okay to refuse a request for fight editing, and quite frankly, as Ariel23 said, 3 out of 4 players will lose the battle anyway (yet another reasons to abolish FFAs, 2 vs. 2 fights are much fairer and probably easier to run). I think I have been having some horrendous luck with the pairings too, out of 5 fights only 2 have been normal duels. Is that normal? I have checked a few other characters at random and they seem to have few non-duel battles.
Zevox 03-21-06, 02:07 PM	On the FFA, I'd much prefer if it can avoid being held over if at all possible. I'm already spending a number of credits next week activating my characters, I'd like to be able to put Destra to inactive if at all possible. If the others all want to rerun it (whether by the generous King Uther ASAP or by having it held over), I'll be fine with that as well, but I'll have deactivate one of my other characters to do it if it turns out to be held over. I'd make no complaints about having it rerun if thats the consensus, since as has been noticed some potentially result-altering problems exist, but if it cannot be so and King Uther can't finish it before pairings and there isn't a consensus among the others my vote (if it comes to comparing votes among the players) is to let it remain so that the characters can be activate or deactivated for next week as thier players please. As for the win/loss record, let me just say I don't see the concern with that. The only impact it has on your character is if you get the "Great Reknown" or "Failure" tags, which impact only if you take the Leadership feat. Personally, I don't care about whether my character has a perfect record or one of nothing but loses, thus the reason why I don't mind FFAs giving 3 loss records to 1 win. Just my opinion on that matter since it got mentioned. Zevox
Pittbull 03-21-06, 02:08 PM	@King: That would be fantastic! If you have time to do the edit and post it before pairings, everybody should be fine. I would do it myself, but I won't have time until at least sunday and if my girl-friend wants to see me, not even then. If you don't have the time, I want to have a democratic majority-decission whether to fix the fight or not. If all the others don't want a delay and be able to get their characters paired, I must say sorry to Argaud. But this wouldn't be the first fight lost because of a pitlord-mistake. Editing the fight should be top priority, because it's the nicest way. Again, I'm very sorry, that I made the mistake and I apolocize that I have not the time to fix before next pairing, it's a busy time for dentists at the moment, sorry.
DarthVegan 03-21-06, 02:22 PM	@Lonewolf I realize this is my first fight and I probably don't understand a few things, but I have a few questions and/or comments. First, I don't remember seeing a potion of invisibility in Jimmy's inventory. Second, how does a mw spiked chain with damage of 1d6+1 do first 11 then 9 hp's worth of damage. Critical hits? Again, I'm not complaining or questioning the result of the fight. I'm just wondering... :confused:
waywreth 03-21-06, 02:42 PM	I realize this is my first fight and I probably don't understand a few things, but I have a few questions and/or comments. First, I don't remember seeing a potion of invisibility in Jimmy's inventory. Second, how does a mw spiked chain with damage of 1d6+1 do first 11 then 9 hp's worth of damage. Critical hits? Again, I'm not complaining or questioning the result of the fight. I'm just wondering... :confused: Also... aren't the various feather tokens now restricted to CL? The whip is an expendible item and is CL12... I was under the impression it couldn't be used anymore unless the gladiator was 12th level.
Zevox 03-21-06, 02:44 PM	Also... aren't the various feather tokens now restricted to CL? The whip is an expendible item and is CL12... I was under the impression it couldn't be used anymore unless the gladiator was 12th level. Yep, I'm fairly certain Luni said as much when asked about that. Zevox
King Uther 03-21-06, 03:34 PM	Cyra vs Gundir vs Leif (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8744589&postcount=420) is up. Truly didn't go as I thought it would at first, until I saw exactly how the tactics went. Good job to the victor, andfor the most part tough luck to the not victor's.
Dracazar 03-21-06, 03:49 PM	@Dracazar I'll do Cher vs Manzarf tomorrow as well if Tagg doesn't get to it. Thanks! I think you could take it since now.
lonewolf 03-21-06, 04:22 PM	@Lonewolf I realize this is my first fight and I probably don't understand a few things, but I have a few questions and/or comments. First, I don't remember seeing a potion of invisibility in Jimmy's inventory. I am deeply sorry about that. I just assumed that if someone writes in his tactics to use a potion of invisibility, that he has such a potion. Since that alone could have changed the outcome greatly the fight could be held over, because I still have to run another fight tonight and wont have time to fix this one. Second, how does a mw spiked chain with damage of 1d6+1 do first 11 then 9 hp's worth of damage. Critical hits? In round 6 you were hit by both the whip and the spiked chain. In round 8 you were in a grapple and thus denied your Dex bonus and thus Jimmy was able to sneak attack you. On the Whip Token issue: If I am not mistaken, you are only forbidden to buy new expendables with such a CL, but can still use the ones you have. If that is also wrong, there need to be even more editing in this fight, which I unfortunately will not have any time for. As Cat asked for more pitlords last Wednesday, I took a third fight and that was a mistake. :embarrass
Stormwind 03-21-06, 04:32 PM	Cyra vs Gundir vs Leif (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8744589&postcount=420) is up. Truly didn't go as I thought it would at first, until I saw exactly how the tactics went. Good job to the victor, andfor the most part tough luck to the not victor's. @King Uther: Thanks for running the fight. Finally a fight that goes more or less as I envisaged it. :) Could you add Cyra's free activity earnings (Spying for 175gp)?
Biota 03-21-06, 04:39 PM	That sounds fine to me, I didn't realize that was still out. Of course, I still don't agree riders can take cover and attack, but I guess everyone else feels that rule is meaningless, so I will go back to my corner and eat worms. @funnymanmike Don't do anything, it's fine! [I guess I would also have to disagree that this fight could get any worse if Evaine did not accept your offer. That would be difficult.] From my reading of the ride skill, if you use ride to take cover then you can't attack that round, period. Cover You can react instantly to drop down and hang alongside your mount, using it as cover. You can’t attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover. If you fail your Ride check, you don’t get the cover benefit. This usage does not take an action. At least that is how I read it and run it. Is this now how other people do it? Biota
Sunwolf 03-21-06, 04:53 PM	Cyra vs Gundir vs Leif (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8744589&postcount=420) is up. Truly didn't go as I thought it would at first, until I saw exactly how the tactics went. Good job to the victor, andfor the most part tough luck to the not victor's. Thanks for running the fight King Uther. I just want to point out that Gundir can only cast spells that don't have a Somantic component while in a grapple (the natural spell feat only allows the wildshape creatures to replace V S components with noises and gestures that the creature can make). Since Black Tentacles is a 20' radius spread does Cyra get caught by accident too? 15,16 vs 18,19? Since Fireball is a 20' radius spread -- won't that also get Cyra too? After saying all that, I still think that Cyra still probably wins the fight -- if she doesn't get caught in the tentacles. When I saw the tactics I was laughing to myself that Cyra and Gundir might wind up sitting right next to each other and not know it!
Mal-2 03-21-06, 05:49 PM	From my reading of the ride skill, if you use ride to take cover then you can't attack that round, period. At least that is how I read it and run it. Is this now how other people do it? No. The Rules of the Game article All About Mounts (Part Two) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a) says: Get Cover from Your Mount: Because you and your mount share a space on the battlefield, you normally cannot claim cover from your mount. Whenever someone attacks you, however, you can attempt a DC 15 Ride check to claim cover from your mount. If you succeed, you get the benefit of cover (+4 to AC). According to the D&D FAQ, the cover benefit applies to all attacks made against you during the same place in the initiative order. If foes attack you several different times during a round, you must make a new Ride check to get cover from your mount against those attacks. You cannot claim cover while you're casting a spell or making any kind of attack. Using your mount for cover isn't an action, and you can do so anytime you're attacked (subject to the limits noted previously). The rules don't say so, but using your mount for cover represents you actively avoiding attacks, and it's reasonable to assume that you cannot do so when you are denied your Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class. And our Rules Thread says: Ride and Mounted Combat The ride skill let's you perform any trick mentioned in the Ride skill entry (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/skillsAll.html#ride). Although ride functions normally in the Core Coliseum, a clarification of the complicated rules on mounted combat is necessary to prevent confusion. Cover from Mount: If you use your mount for cover (Ride check Dc15), you cannot make any attacks at the exact time of doing this but you are not prevented from casting spells or attacking later in the same round. This has been clarified by Skip Williams in the Rules of the Game: All about Mounts (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a) section of the WotC homepage. You have to be aware of the attack and not flatfooted. Edit: Edited to add that if I had only read the description in the PHB, I would probably read it the same way you did. It's another one of those places where my reading of the rule doesn't quite fit with how they intend it to work.
MindWandererB 03-21-06, 06:03 PM	From my reading of the ride skill, if you use ride to take cover then you can't attack that round, period. At least that is how I read it and run it. Is this now how other people do it?There's a Rules of the Game article on the subject here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a). Basically, you can claim cover any time you're not flat-footed or simultaneously engaged in some other activity. The implication is that you take cover during one combat segment (a single "tick" of initiative), and as long as you're not doing something else during that moment in the initiative order, you can take cover. Get Cover from Your Mount: Because you and your mount share a space on the battlefield, you normally cannot claim cover from your mount. Whenever someone attacks you, however, you can attempt a DC 15 Ride check to claim cover from your mount. If you succeed, you get the benefit of cover (+4 to AC). According to the D&D FAQ, the cover benefit applies to all attacks made against you during the same place in the initiative order. If foes attack you several different times during a round, you must make a new Ride check to get cover from your mount against those attacks. You cannot claim cover while you're casting a spell or making any kind of attack. Using your mount for cover isn't an action, and you can do so anytime you're attacked (subject to the limits noted previously). The rules don't say so, but using your mount for cover represents you actively avoiding attacks, and it's reasonable to assume that you cannot do so when you are denied your Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class. Edit: waay too slow.
lonewolf 03-21-06, 06:26 PM	My last fight, Huginn Muninn (Azarias) vs. Risal Atess (Kaigan) is finally up. sorry for the delay.
Kaigan 03-21-06, 06:34 PM	@lonewolf: Just because I'm at 3 hp, doesn't mean I'm dead yet. I'm dying yet, but not dead. I become dead at -10 Hp, that means my dogs can still attack for a round, and perhaps kill him before I die. Edit: Also it doesn't look like you give my dogs their flanking bonus. Also, Huginn loses his dex to AC when in a grapple.
lonewolf 03-21-06, 06:46 PM	@lonewolf: Just because I'm at 3 hp, doesn't mean I'm dead yet. I'm dying yet, but not dead. I become dead at -10 Hp, that means my dogs can still attack for a round, and perhaps kill him before I die. hmm I thought that as soon as one character is down, the allies also stopp attacking. But apperently I was wrong. I am going to correct that. Edit: Also it doesn't look like you give my dogs their flanking bonus. Also, Huginn loses his dex to AC when in a grapple. The dogs had their flanking bonus, and Huginn has a Dex of 10 which makes losing his dex to AC not really important.
Kaigan 03-21-06, 06:49 PM	hmm I thought that as soon as one character is down, the allies also stopp attacking. But apperently I was wrong. I am going to correct that. The dogs had their flanking bonus, and Huginn has a Dex of 10 which makes losing his dex to AC not really important. Okay, didn't notice that... but before you correct, maybe we should get an elder to step in. @Any Elders: Does the fight stop when you get to negative hitpoints? Or do allies keep attacking until you are dead?
lonewolf 03-21-06, 06:52 PM	already corrected and your dogs missed.
Kaigan 03-21-06, 06:55 PM	already corrected and your dogs missed. Cool, thanks.
Stormwind 03-21-06, 07:47 PM	Thanks for running the fight King Uther. I just want to point out that Gundir can only cast spells that don't have a Somantic component while in a grapple (the natural spell feat only allows the wildshape creatures to replace V S components with noises and gestures that the creature can make). Since Black Tentacles is a 20' radius spread does Cyra get caught by accident too? 15,16 vs 18,19? Since Fireball is a 20' radius spread -- won't that also get Cyra too? After saying all that, I still think that Cyra still probably wins the fight -- if she doesn't get caught in the tentacles. When I saw the tactics I was laughing to myself that Cyra and Gundir might wind up sitting right next to each other and not know it! Actually Cyra is sitting on the shoulder of the statue at the time which is actually 10ft elevation (as per map description). Since the black tentacles are coming out of the ceiling which is 25ft high, and are only 10ft long there is no way that she could be caught by the tentacles. The fireball would have a chance to hit her, but only if it was aimed exactly 10ft below Gundir and there is no reason for Leif to do that. (Since the fireball is a spherical effect Cyra is not in it's area) ....
funnymanmike 03-21-06, 07:58 PM	I am deeply sorry about that. I just assumed that if someone writes in his tactics to use a potion of invisibility, that he has such a potion. On the Whip Token issue: If I am not mistaken, you are only forbidden to buy new expendables with such a CL, but can still use the ones you have. If that is also wrong, there need to be even more editing in this fight, which I unfortunately will not have any time for. sorry about this, i was having problems with the website when purchaing items last week, i was under the impression that i had it as well, i have added it used to my sheet and spent the money i had, sorry about the confusion. as for the whip toekn issue, my guy is only like 3 weeks old, i had no idea it was such a powerfull item, it seemd only 500g and didn't seem like much a big deal, since i had purchased a new one i will change that. Jimmy being my first character i think i will just waste him, i made too many mistakes on his build anyway also i have no idea where to find the CL, its not listed in the books or the SRD sites
NiQil 03-21-06, 08:19 PM	@ All regarding Pittbull's FFA: First...thanks for the effort put into running this. It was a cluster****. Several have already mentioned errors...the most serious being the produce flame issue. That has a drastic effect on this fight. In addition to that, at the end when it is just Famine and Destra, there are several tactical errors (however those would probably be moot in an edit). I won't go into details here....but I am afraid that I am going to have to insist that this battle be held over and redone properly. The Produce Flame element changes things drastically...and I would rather have this rerun than have it corrected in a hurry just to get it in before pairings. A PM to Pitlords will be sent shortly.
NiQil 03-21-06, 08:24 PM	@ lonewolf: The whip token can no longer be purchased by anyone under ECL 12. Anyone that had any one-shot items or charged items above their ECL should have already either paid the credits to keep it or refunded it. So if someone has it, a violation post is in order.
Gonbow 03-21-06, 08:41 PM	@Macbrea Sorry for the confusion with the move silently/hide, I just didn't see the rolls. As far as running goes... Normally I do a turn by turn set of actions, which is what the running was. That was intended to be something only done on the first turn to interrupt his buffing. Which is why later on, I wrote about buffing while moving to close. I was well aware of his high attack modifier and felt I needed all the AC I could get. Hence the synopsis of: Full attack while he has great difficulty hurting me (I.E: Needs a 19 or 20 to hit me). It's late in the week and I don't really expect this to be changed as one could read it the way that you did, but I feel that the other portions of my tactics should have made my strategy clear and should have been followed. @Gladiators of my fight I'm running the fight now, it should be up tonight, my apologizes for the slowness.
Zevox 03-21-06, 09:17 PM	Several have already mentioned errors...the most serious being the produce flame issue. That has a drastic effect on this fight. In addition to that, at the end when it is just Famine and Destra, there are several tactical errors (however those would probably be moot in an edit). I won't go into details here....but I am afraid that I am going to have to insist that this battle be held over and redone properly. The Produce Flame element changes things drastically...and I would rather have this rerun than have it corrected in a hurry just to get it in before pairings. A PM to Pitlords will be sent shortly. *sigh* I was afraid you'd say that Niqil. I guess I'll just deactivate Alboreth then - the CEF will have to do without his income for another week. The TAO and EHTC need Eraca and Asran more. Oh well, one good thing does come out of this I suppose - I can have Destra retroactively teach two tricks to her pets, and that could come in handy next time I activate her. Anyway, am I right in assuming that we don't write new tactics for a rerun? The only other time I've had a fight held over it was for one that wasn't run in the first place, so I'm not entirely sure if a rerun works differently in that regard. Zevox
NiQil 03-21-06, 09:21 PM	*sigh* I was afraid you'd say that Niqil. I guess I'll just deactivate Alboreth then - the CEF will have to do without his income for another week. The TAO and EHTC need Eraca and Asran more. Oh well, one good thing does come out of this I suppose - I can have Destra retroactively teach two tricks to her pets, and that could come in handy next time I activate her. Anyway, am I right in assuming that we don't write new tactics for a rerun? The only other time I've had a fight held over it was for one that wasn't run in the first place, so I'm not entirely sure if a rerun works differently in that regard. Zevox Correct....the fight will be rerun using the already submitted tactics. It will be like the first fight never took place.
Gonbow 03-22-06, 12:57 AM	Emon the supposedly retired vs the should be retired Nehro is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8749151&postcount=422). Speedy gnomes, sexy old elves and exploding body parts, oh my!
Kaigan 03-22-06, 01:01 AM	Emon the supposedly retired vs the should be retired Nehro is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8749151&postcount=422). Speedy gnomes, sexy old elves and exploding body parts, oh my! Lol, maybe I shouldn't retire him... haha.
MindWandererB 03-22-06, 01:15 AM	Emon the supposedly retired vs the should be retired Nehro is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8749151&postcount=422). Speedy gnomes, sexy old elves and exploding body parts, oh my!Nehro belongs to ViezeFurr, not me. I don't want anyone looking at me for those tactics... True Strike and Hold Person? Eagle's Spendor and no "save" spells from memory? Burglarizing wizards? I should also point out that CL5 scrolls, like that of Hold Person used in the fight, are illegal for ECL 3 characters. So he should have cast something else here, presumably Sleep... which, ironically enough, has a good chance of turning the fight around for him. I hate to argue in favor of a character who had so many mistakes in their tactics, but there it is.
DarthVegan 03-22-06, 02:19 AM	@Lonewolf: Thanks for checking into it, and also for the explanation. It doesn't bother me if the fight must be held over...I hope the same goes for funnymanmike. @funnymanmike: The CL's for all Magic items can be found in their individual descriptions in the DMG starting on pg. 217. The CL's for potions are as follows: "The caster level [CL] for a standard potion is the minimum caster level needed to cast the spell (unless otherwise specified)." DMG pg. 229 Potion Descriptions
funnymanmike 03-22-06, 10:17 AM	@Lonewolf: ive had so much hastle with the website in the last week (not people but the actual site, lowspeed sux), and jimmy being my first character. i have a few otpions here. 1) i hide instead of going invisible and perform the same stuff, but then i could not have used the whip wich total changes what my character whould have done, or how i would have built him. 2) i scratch out jimmy & conceed to DarthVegan @DarthVegan: ty for the info on the potions, i didn't relize until now it was Caster Level there is many problems with jimmy, mainly that i could have gone elf instead of halfing wich would have changed the outcome to fight 1, and my skills were a bit funky. the hole equipment thing that you can & can't buy is confusing me, like i said i had no idea you couldn't use a feather token or even buy one, in the quick startup guide it said all items in the dmg&phb were fine. the token was part of my build, who my character was.
King Uther 03-22-06, 11:44 AM	@Kaigan From personal experience, most allies generally attack until the PC is dead if they can. A couple of fights I've been in have delayed an extra 10 or more rounds waiting on me to kill the ally so I could finish the CDG.
Argaud 03-22-06, 12:32 PM	@Kaigan From personal experience, most allies generally attack until the PC is dead if they can. A couple of fights I've been in have delayed an extra 10 or more rounds waiting on me to kill the ally so I could finish the CDG. However, I have also seen a few fights ending when the character goes down. Even when there was conjured creatures, allies and pets around still able to fight, and possibly kill the other gladiator before the fallen one got to -10 hp. Possibly some official ruling should be decided.
Gonbow 03-22-06, 01:57 PM	Nehro belongs to ViezeFurr, not me. I don't want anyone looking at me for those tactics... True Strike and Hold Person? Eagle's Spendor and no "save" spells from memory? Burglarizing wizards? I should also point out that CL5 scrolls, like that of Hold Person used in the fight, are illegal for ECL 3 characters. So he should have cast something else here, presumably Sleep... which, ironically enough, has a good chance of turning the fight around for him. I hate to argue in favor of a character who had so many mistakes in their tactics, but there it is. Ah, my apologies; I use a fight template and I didn't clear your name from it! I'll fix that right away. Oh yes, I know, there are plenty of things Nehro shouldn't have had for that fight. He should be in jail really, which is my next stop after editing your name out of the fight ^_^
nickbeat 03-22-06, 02:31 PM	Sorry friends, I haven't run any fights for the last few weeks since I had my baby girl. I am taking some time off from pitlording and sent a message to Pitlord, but I am still being assigned fights to run. I'll hopefully get back in the swing of it in a few weeks. For now, please do not assign me to pitlord any fights. Thanks, Nick
King Uther 03-22-06, 02:54 PM	Cher vs Manzarf is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8752205&postcount=424) The fight went one way, then an edit occurred due to a math mistake which invariably changed the fight outcome.
Abyssal Stalker 03-22-06, 03:26 PM	Cher vs Manzarf is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8752205&postcount=424) The fight went one way, then an edit occurred due to a math mistake which invariably changed the fight outcome. Thanks, King! Too bad Manzarf won't get paired this week since he has been two weeks on violation and I couldn't fix things or he would've lost automatically. Oh, well, bad guys sometimes have to go to prison. At least Cher gets paired next week!
Zevox 03-22-06, 03:33 PM	Thanks, King! Too bad Manzarf won't get paired this week since he has been two weeks on violation and I couldn't fix things or he would've lost automatically. Oh, well, bad guys sometimes have to go to prison. At least Cher gets paired next week! Actually, if you get him fixed up quick and send a PM to Pitlords that his violation is fixed (probably also want to send it to Niqil/Prisonlords and whoever gave you the violation), you could perhaps still be paired this week. You'll just have to hurry and hope Cat understands. I mean, its worth a try anyway, right? :) Zevox
Dracazar 03-22-06, 06:26 PM	Cher vs Manzarf is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8752205&postcount=424) The fight went one way, then an edit occurred due to a math mistake which invariably changed the fight outcome. I'm really unbelieving that a flying creature with speed 100! and wingover feat is unable to attack a creature with speed 30. And also another creature with speed 40 is unable to do a single attack to the same creature with speed 30. You did a magic. I'm unable to track movement with the coordinate that you posted in the fight. This for example Round 3: Round 2: Manz 27/49hp AC20 (1, -4) Hippogriff 31/31 AC15 (1, -5) Round 3: Manz 27/49hp AC20 (-4, 4) Hippogriff 31/31 AC15 (1, 15) The foe turn around a pillar, the hippogriff goes north, why? I don't know. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Cher,M,0,-30;b=Manz,M,1,-4,3,-1,5,-2,4,-4;c=Hipp,M,1,-5,1,15 This for example Round 4: Round 4: Manz 27/49hp AC24 (-8, 3) Force Screen [Round 14] Hippogriff 31/31 AC15 (-8, 2) The foe moves more than his speed, the hippogriff can't attack, why? I don't know. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Cher,M,0,-30;b=Manz,M,4,-4,-8,3;c=Hipp,M,1,15,-8,2 I went no further because I'm really unable to "read" the fight...
King Uther 03-22-06, 07:07 PM	Well, to answer this question fully, we need to discuss some things: 1. Yes, Manzarf moved further than his real movement. Again, forgot he was a dwarf and gave him a 40ft move instead of a 30. I could edit that in, but I know for a fact it will change nothing. 2. The hippogriff does have a speed of 100, but its maneuverability is average. Since Wingover can only be used if the flight is parellel or descending, it becomes difficult for such a creature to follow someone who maneuvers around the pillars that are 50ft high. Honestly, there is not one round where a single move will allow the hippogriff to get to Manzarf except for the first. A hippogriff can only turn 90o when flying, and cannot go backwards. There's one round in particular where I said he based where he could not have. 3. The bison is significantly less likely to get to attack Manzarf. He specifically mentioned in his tactics to withdraw from the summons and wait them out, which he could do safely from round 2-11 with no penalty until the 10th time he did it. None of your summons have reach, so he will never be attacked as long as he keep maneuvering around corners. 4. I went out of my way to give you a fighting chance based on your tactics by suggesting a grappling large centipede(which the first time I did it gave you the edge). 5. The fight boils down to this: a) He made the sactuary save b) He squeezed you to death in but a few rounds Please don't take anything I say out of context and assume an angry tone or anything. In fact, the map coordinates you listed are correct, but the way you show the map is wrong. The Hippogriff did not go North for no reason, but Manzarf went Northwest and the Hippogriff could not use Wingover to catch him since he gained altitude that round.
Dracazar 03-23-06, 07:46 AM	1. I think that with the speed of 30' instead of the wrong 40' will change a lot. 2. The hippogriff has speed 100' if flying and ALSO speed 50' if at land, I think that is unreal that a such creature, that could also combine the two speeds, is unable to attack a foe with a speed of 30' 3. The bison was is addition to the hippogriff, and still both creature were unable to do a single attack I don't take anything out of context but I'm unable to "read" your fight because the coordinates does not match the movement speed and there is no map. Also in the previous map I posted in round 4 the hippogriff moves less than 100' and should have attacked. I went no further in the reading because it the movements seems unintelligible to me. About Wingover: WINGOVER [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Fly speed. Benefits: A flying creature with this feat can change direction quickly once each round as a free action. This feat allows it to turn up to 180 degrees regardless of its maneuverability, in addition to any other turns it is normally allowed. A creature cannot gain altitude during a round when it executes a wingover, but it can dive. The change of direction consumes 10 feet of flying movement. The bolded text is different from your words: "the Hippogriff could not use Wingover to catch him since he gained altitude that round" It is written that after wingover the creature cannot gain altitude but it is NOT written that the creature cannot use wingover after gain altitude.
Abyssal Stalker 03-23-06, 03:26 PM	@King Uther: Please mark the free activities to the Manzarf vs Cher fight. Manzarf's free activity for that week was +100gp stoneworking (as usual).
King Uther 03-23-06, 05:51 PM	You lost your own argument. The SRD says it right there. The Hippogriff can either use Wingover, or gain altitude, but cannot do both in the same round. Here is why both summons were useless except for the first attack by the 'griff: The Withdraw action allows him to move 60', with no AoOs on the first square of movement, between pillars and obstacles. The bison cannot base and attack, ever, as it starts too far away and cannot get a charge in. Therefore the bison is useless. The Hippogriff could base with flying and attack, but Manzarf moves between pillars, and with a maneuverability of average the Hippogriff proves ineffective at best. Even if moving 50' on the ground, still cannot base and attack in the same round. That would stand true on any rerun, as Manzarf's tactics specifically say to Withdraw and escape all summons. Your argument does not hold water. The coordinates are fine, and I rechecked them to make sure. I cannot help it that Manzarf took the cowards route. He then got lucky with his Will save. Now, I would like to take a moment to make a reasonable statement. I will look at the fight tonight, look at the movement and see if Manzarf perhaps could have been attacked by the Hippogriff(it is unlikely the Bison got to attack, but I'll check it too). I'll make all the rolls, if any do occur, and change the fight accordingly. EDIT: After going through the fight, and watching how the movement changed, the fight was edited accordingly: 1. The Hippogriff was able to make 2 more attacks, 1 hit and 1 miss. 2. Manzarf never used the tattoo of force screen 3. The Bison never based even 1 time because the path which Manzarf had to move to dehy the Hippogriff cut off LOS more than once from the bison