Post/Author/DateTime	Post
waywreth 05-17-06, 12:29 PM	Fights of the Week: May 17th Sheets Deadline for editing characters sheets is 21:00 GMT. Greenwich Mean Time (http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com) shows the time and helps for conversions (http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/gmt-converter.htm) with your timezone. Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions. Pairings GM Caterane will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Make sure that your character is not in Prison (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571107&goto=lastpost). Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need, there is a nice Template ready to use that will help. You could find very useful the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps, You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. Other useful links are Skills and Feats, Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't attack pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play and above all, have FUN! Latest News Allies must be pre-buffed effective since April 19th Polymorph and Metamorphosis changes effective since April 19th THE FOLLOWING ITEMS START EFFECTIVE JUNE 14 The Battles of Gladius - The 3-Week Cycle (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466621) The Cap on Expendables (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466659) Pre-Fight Actions (Pre-Buffs): Preparing for Combat! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466659) Virtual XP: Losing Experience Points (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6463693) If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
MitzaVolchenko 05-17-06, 04:09 PM	As always, first tactics in=first fights done. PM tactics as I do not always check my email in a timely fashion. Please include healing contingency and expendable use permissions. If they aren't there, I won't use anything not mentioned in your tactics. Please state what move actions are acceptable. As fast as possible=run action in my mind. If you mean double move, say so, please. Please include your free activity and guild info in your tactics. I am trying something new this week. I will PM my gladiators as I complete their fights so that they have maximum time to review and request edits. Please list all grounds for editing in one post. Unless there are new concerns brought up by a mechanic in re-run, I will not edit a second time. Have fun!
SoulLord 05-17-06, 04:15 PM	Also last chances to play without the dreaded by some 3WC
Pitlords 05-17-06, 05:12 PM	PAIRINGS DONE Fights without Pitlord: Lantash (bluemage55) vs. Ten Vermond (Soullord) : XXXXX The Undertaker (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Biko (Biko111) : XXXXX Tivik (mattes) vs. Koan (graymocker) vs. Alana (barrel_master) : XXXXX [All-vs-All] Credit Changes +4: Caterane, Huan, Mitza +3: DSugui, Erithmu, Vathelokai, Myrridin +2: Iced, Sauro, Stonetree, Zevox +1: Abyssal, Dracazar, Macbrea, Mindwanderer, Pittbull, Waywreth, NiQil Although the Rules of Gladius are already updated to reflect the new rules, this and the next week will still be run with the old rules. The 3-Week-Cycle (3WC) will be implemented on June 14.
MindWandererB 05-17-06, 05:20 PM	Wow, twelve minutes to do pairings? That's gotta be a new record.
SauroGrenom 05-17-06, 05:37 PM	Pitlords, This is the 3rd week in a row where Kracknol is paired against Auburn. Is there any chance that another pairing could be arranged? Perhaps Kracknol could swap with Cyra or Anixx. Also Raskos should be on his 3rd week of crafting. Please check here and you'll notice that Raskos was already on his 2nd week last time pairings was done.
graymocker 05-17-06, 05:38 PM	Fights without Pitlord: Lantash (bluemage55) vs. Ten Vermond (Soullord) : XXXXX The Undertaker (Abyssal Stalker) vs. Biko (Biko111) : XXXXX Tivik (mattes) vs. Koan (graymocker) vs. Alana (barrel_master) : XXXXX [All-vs-All] Meh, that's the second week in a row I've been ready for a fight and been in PL-less limbo =/ It looks like the Undertaker/Biko fight wouldn't be too hard to PL for a novice. I'll volunteer to take that. (Do I need to PM one of the admin accounts to make this happen?).
Pitlords 05-17-06, 05:39 PM	It took me 1 hour and 12 minutes. I always begin at 22:00 (10 PM) German Time. I was finished at 23:12 (11:12 PM). @Graymocker: It's yours. I'll add your name to the PL Roster. +1° @Sauro G.: Switched the Pairings. Added the Crafting.
Ariel23 05-17-06, 05:41 PM	Allow me to state up front that I feel terrible for Zevox re: Loquan Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Evaine Dreamseeker (Ariel23) : Zevox Consider this a binding statement as part of my tactics that if this fight gets too difficult because of me, just have Evaine surrender. "Too Difficult" includes the definition "incredibly annoying." One win and I can retire her if I want. Maybe even a loss against allies, I haven't really looked. Once the new system is implemented, I will definitely be making another character for testing, perhaps two.
Caterane 05-17-06, 06:02 PM	Are there no takers for the 2 remaining level 3 fights? Setup for Lissa vs Monster is here.
Book5 05-17-06, 06:17 PM	Man... my characters were sooo ready... just forgot to reset the title line.. DRAT fixing for next wee NOW... grrr :doh:
Zevox 05-17-06, 06:41 PM	Ouch... Destra has another multi-person fight... she just can't get a break on that, can she? Oh well, maybe she'll have better luck this time. @ My players - most of what Mitza said goes for me too. First come first serve (or run as the case may be), include any contingencies you want in your tactics (over complicated tactics are better than too little tactics as far as I'm concerned), and so on. I have tomorrow wide open, so if I have tactics for one of the fights by then it can get run then. @ My PLs - Tactics will be sent tonight most likely, perhaps tomorrow morning for Destra's Hunter match. @ Gonbow - Terminus' MQ will be up tonight sometime. @ Mitza - I've PMed you some info regarding Ceilia's MQ, to make things a little easier on you :) . @ Malither76 - So, are we still doing a Frozen MQ for Baelin? You never responded to my PM, so if I don't hear from you I'll have to assume its off since you didn't activate Malik this week either. Zevox
Traevanon 05-17-06, 08:14 PM	I was going to wait one more week to start pitlording, but since there are open fights I'm willing to take one. I'll PM Pitlords to add me to the roster.
Zevox 05-17-06, 08:17 PM	@ Huan - Tactics for Featylec vs Saendithas and Eraca vs Riana have been PMed. The former is likely to be a pain, but the latter should be straightforward enough. @ Sindorin & Huan - Burglarly info for Featylec has likewise been PMed. @ Abyssal Stalker - Tactics for Asran vs Sola, the EHTC vs EYE rematch, have been PMed. Now that should be an interesting one - does Asran get another of Sola's heads for his wall, or does that new template let the EYE's leader overcome the Half-Fiend? I'm excited just thinking about it :) . @ Mitza - yeah, tomorrow for Destra's tactics. Ouch, that one's going to hurt. Zevox
Traevanon 05-17-06, 09:39 PM	If nobody minds, I'll take the Undertaker v Biko match.
bluemage55 05-17-06, 11:14 PM	Soullord and I are still pitlordless . . . :weep: Will it encourage anyone to PL if I confess I only have 5 hp and I'm up against an archer? :D
bluemage55 05-17-06, 11:14 PM	Oops, double post.
Sindorin 05-17-06, 11:21 PM	Okay. Something just set me off so brace yourselves. We have some weird rule that allows a character to steal their opponent's stuff without the opponent having any chance to stop them unless they spend there whole $#%#$ free action GUARDING. WHERE THE HELL DOES IT TELL ABOUT GUARDING IN THE FREAKING SRD? Zevox has just PM'd me about what he has 'taken' after he 'autosucceeds in picking the lock'. So Zevox has decided to steal, of all things, TWO TATTOOS OF CHAMELEON!@!!@#@$ My friends, I understand that we want to make skills useful, but to be frank blunt and honest stuff like that is ******** and I am *this* close to quitting because we are allowing that stuff. I don't even want it retracted even after you all look at it and realize how stupid it is. There are just so many things going wrong with this place that maybe it is finally time to bow out after over two years of service here. Somebody PM me when the frozen leagues open up. I don't know why you people who make these house rules seem to think that my character has locks on his body where his tattoos are, but whatever. *spits because of bad taste in mouth* Now, not only is my level 4 stuck to having only 800 gp worth of stuff, but 1/4 of it just got stolen and won't be usable til the next match. I am seriously considering finding a better place to game just based on this crap we are throwing on the fire without a freaking vote.
bluemage55 05-17-06, 11:32 PM	WHERE THE HELL DOES IT TELL ABOUT GUARDING IN THE FREAKING SRD? It's a house rule, presumably implemented to prevent skills such as Open Lock from being virtually useless in an arena environment.
Sindorin 05-17-06, 11:46 PM	Tactics sent to Huan for BS fight.
waywreth 05-17-06, 11:46 PM	We have some weird rule that allows a character to steal their opponent's stuff without the opponent having any chance to stop them unless they spend there whole $#%#$ free action GUARDING. WHERE THE HELL DOES IT TELL ABOUT GUARDING IN THE FREAKING SRD? You have a few ways to stop it: First off he needs Open Lock: First you have to break in by using Open lock. If your Open Lock value is at least 5+ECL of Opponent, you have successfully opened the lock and can now search for items in his house. Then he needs Search: You have to multiply your Search value with the multiplier of your ECL in the table below to determine the amount of item value you can steal. For example, an ECL4 character with Search+8 can steal items worth 160 gp. Preventing Burglary: Characters can protect themselves against Burglary in several ways: Guard: As a Free Activity you can guard your home. You are not subject to Burglary for this one week. Note that this Free Activity might be wasted if you are not fighting someone who uses Burglary. Traps: You can buy or craft a trap for your home (see DMG, p71 for traps) which will be permanently listed on your sheet in your 'Home Equipment' section. If the Burglar does not beat the Disable Device DC of the trap with a Take 10, the Burglary fails. Lock: If your Open Lock skill is higher than that of the Burglar, the burglary automatically fails. You have basically improved your own lock. And as a note I like the rules (which have been in place for months - show's you how many rogues there are) - it makes rogues which in my opinion the weakest class in this arena more useful.
Sindorin 05-17-06, 11:49 PM	I know the rules I just don't see how he can steal two tattoos. And I also think that the rules are stupid and there are way too many house rules and we never voted on adding that stuff. My post was not in ignorance of the rules, it was in protest.
Sindorin 05-17-06, 11:53 PM	Wait a minute, wait a minute... how is the burglar allowed to 'pick' from the victim's items? When you burgle you are in a hurry. I believe this rule was made in reckless haste because common sense would tell you that the Pitlord should roll what items are stolen - assigning a number to each item that is within the price range able to be stolen and then the pitlord would PM the gladiator who has been robbed telling them what they cannot use. That seems the LOGICAL way to HOUSE RULE THIS GAME INTO SOMETHING OTHER THAN D&D.
MindWandererB 05-18-06, 12:40 AM	@Sindorin: you have the bad luck to have one of the very few characters (two? three?) who has been victimized by this so far. There may still be bugs in the system, and they may need tweaking. I've been in that boat--CL 9 wands on ECL 6 characters were prohibited the week after Mektos single-handedly destroyed Aerryl's Brooch of Shielding in about four rounds. The CoCo is still a work in progress. Presumably, the burglar knows who they are going to fight and can specifically search for certain items. But you're right, I think random items would make more sense--and tattoos make no sense at all. This is especially bad in light of the upcoming max expendables rule--a good burglar will be able to totally wipe out an expendable list, especially at low levels.
Zevox 05-18-06, 12:46 AM	And as a note I like the rules (which have been in place for months - show's you how many rogues there are) - it makes rogues which in my opinion the weakest class in this arena more useful. Pretty much my thoughts, with one exception (see below). To my knowledge Featylec's the only character in the CoCo who has ever used the burglary free activity (which makes it rather amusing to see how many characters actually use guarding as a free activity when no one in thier league is doing burglaries), and he really only does it to try and gain an edge against wizards, who basically auto-win against his -1 will save. However I do agree with Sindorin that some of the rule makes little to no sense, particularly the ability to steal tattoos (leave those lying around your home much?) and the fact that guarding requires an entire free activity. If it were revisited and altered to make more sense, I certainly wouldn't complain (I'd probably support it, actually). Say for instance (off the top of my head) that it were to remove the ability to steal tattoos and there was a certain % chance (rolled by the pitlord) that the thief arrives when his foe is still at home and cannot make the burglary, that would be an improvement I'd say. Zevox
King Uther 05-18-06, 12:57 AM	I'll take any and all fights needed. I have about 8 hours of time on Saturday and 4 hours of time on Sunday to do them. Give the fights to me.
DarthVegan 05-18-06, 12:59 AM	@Iced--Tactics for Micah vs Izumi sent via PM.
King Uther 05-18-06, 12:59 AM	Also, could Alagar get paired? I set him up to be paired when I got internet back but we had that 2 week hiatus and I forgot to edit him. If not that is fine but I'd like to see if I can kill some folks. Also, a nice rematch with Telveran. Virgo and him fought in the EL4 league I believe, like 6 months ago. I'm looking forward to that one.
NiQil 05-18-06, 01:02 AM	One thing to keep in mind, however, is that while stealing tattoos may not make any sense from a real world or common sense perspective, it makes perfect sense from a balance perspective, since tattoos are the psionic equivalent of oils/potions. That is the reason they were included in this skill function...it's a balancing effect so that all expendables (scrolls, potions/oils, powerstones, and tattoos) are affected. In this case, I think the balance side of the equation far outweighs the role-playing aspect. For those that are hung up on the role-playing explanation of how this works...think of it as not taking the tattoo, but rather defacing the tattoo in such a way as to make them temporarily unusable. Maybe Featylec went in and scribbled on them while Sin's character was sleeping or something, which caused them to temporarily not function. But then the functionality is restored by the Nimbus when the battle ends just as it would a sundered weapon. That's just off the top of my head...I'm sure those of you that are more creative than I am can come up with something better.
Zevox 05-18-06, 01:24 AM	Query: It occurs to me that our recent maps addition has resulted in the removal of the old hunter fight map, the cave. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that the random maps don't get implemented until June 14th along with the other new rules (if I'm wrong, how do we determine what maps are used since it isn't in the pairings currently?). If I'm correct, which map is now being used for the hunter fights? :confused: Zevox
Ravashack 05-18-06, 01:25 AM	Tactics for Perius sent in to MindwandererB via PM.
MitzaVolchenko 05-18-06, 03:01 AM	Enoch (Salrantol) => Dameon (Huan) => Destra (Zevox) => Valek (DSugui) : MitzaVolchenko [Hunter] PLEASE REMEMBER THAT HUNTER IS NOT FREE FOR ALL!!!!
MysticMonk2005 05-18-06, 03:08 AM	@Cat: Tactics for Lissa sent via PM. Qustion: does the new 3WC rule cancel out the 1/3 rule or do they stack? and doesn't the new 3WC rule also potentialy put a person behind in thier XP/GP ratio as different levels have different XP/GP gain ratios? and how does 3WC effect the realtime time progression we have?
bluemage55 05-18-06, 03:26 AM	Tactics for Lantash sent to KingUther via PM.
KerlanRayne 05-18-06, 03:26 AM	As to the stealing of tattoos: If the wearer of a psionic tattoo is rendered unconscious or is slain, another sentient creature can touch the tattoo while willing it to leave the previous wearer and apply itself to the new creature as a standard action.Can we use Arcane Lock, Alarm, or other spells as deterrents? KerlanRayne
Pittbull 05-18-06, 03:41 AM	@Pitlords/Sauro/my fellow gladiators: There a mistake in pairings of the ECL-9-league: Barthleby is supposed to craft for the whole week and is therefor not active for arena-fights. Balbanes (King Uther) => Sdentch (TheMagister) => Barthleby (Pittbull) : SauroGrenom [Hunter]
Vathelokai 05-18-06, 04:07 AM	Pitlords, This is the 3rd week in a row where Kracknol is paired against Auburn. Is there any chance that another pairing could be arranged? Perhaps Kracknol could swap with Cyra or Anixx. HAHAHAHAHAHA... err. hrmph.
Vathelokai 05-18-06, 04:10 AM	As to the stealing of tattoos: Can we use Arcane Lock, Alarm, or other spells as deterrents? KerlanRayneThat was shot down while the rules were being made for two reasons. 1) WIzards are already cool, so they should be nerfed. 2) This rule is about comming up with some way of using non-combat skills in the deathmatch arena. From my insufferable tone, you might notice that I agree with Sindorin on this one. Balance is good and all, but I like my RPGs to make sense.
Book5 05-18-06, 04:24 AM	1) WIzards are already cool, so they should be nerfed. cmon! Describe for me again how that is supposed to work.. "object or area" does not include you left shoulder... I mean - can you cast a light spell on your fist? no I don't think so. :cool: Furthermore.... tatoos are not objects! They are ... "skin" .. or something... not targetable as an object - thats why no alarm, sepia's sigil, arcane lock, or etc. Not for nerfing...but because arcane locking you left shoulder ... doens't make sense.
Pittbull 05-18-06, 04:33 AM	@DSugui: Tactics for KazzzAHM have been sent! @My gladiators: I'm waiting for your tactics, I'd like to run the fight on saturday, so please don't send them late. Anaconda, please don't forget that you can't bring your dragon (too high CR) and should'n't forgery be listed as a free action in the head-line? I will allow to bring it with you, but then you get nothing from crafting.
Usurpator 05-18-06, 04:37 AM	That was shot down while the rules were being made for two reasons. 1) WIzards are already cool, so they should be nerfed. 2) This rule is about comming up with some way of using non-combat skills in the deathmatch arena. From my insufferable tone, you might notice that I agree with Sindorin on this one. Balance is good and all, but I like my RPGs to make sense. That is indeed true. It is a use of the skill that has nothing to do with making sense, but balancing other rules. Cat at that time liked to have extra uses for skills, and he also wanted to nerf expendable users, hence this rule. With the new expendables nerf rules (gp. limit to expendables, 3WC with no opportunity to restock) this rule really becomes obsolete. The reasoning last time was that expendable users should stock up more in expendables if they wanted to avoid being relieved of key expendables. Since that is not possible anymore, the stealing rule should be stricken.
Traevanon 05-18-06, 09:10 AM	Okay, it looks like I missed out on the Undertaker v Baki fight, but I am still available to Pitlord. If not needed I'll start next week.
Pitlords 05-18-06, 09:33 AM	Changes: Lantash (bluemage55) vs. Ten Vermond (Soullord) : Traevanon Tivik (mattes) vs. Koan (graymocker) vs. Alana (barrel_master) : King Uther Balbanes (King Uther) vs. Sdentch (TheMagister) : SauroGrenom Barthleby (Pittbull) crafts his stuff. Credit Changes: Traevanon +1°, King Uther +2°, Sauro -1° Hunter Fights will take place on the Sewer Map until we have the random arenas included in the pairingsmaker.
waywreth 05-18-06, 09:40 AM	@Abyssal Stalker - Tactics for Gaston in Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Sliver (MitzaVolchenko) sent via PM. @Zevox - Tacitics for Loquan in Loquan Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Evaine Dreamseeker (Ariel23) sent via PM. @MindwandererB - Zero's Miniquest is up and ready for you to begin posting: Miniquest - "Ali Baba's Revenge" (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=639449) @Sindorin - I see your point, stealing tattoo's is a bit... odd. But I think the concept that Zevox mentioned was a good work around.
DSugui 05-18-06, 09:52 AM	I have the impression that Dronnar's opponent - The White Hand - is doing a Full Activity this week. If TM could confirm that, a new opponent should be assigned. @Pittbull - tactics for Kazzz received
Caterane 05-18-06, 10:13 AM	We have some weird rule that allows a character to steal their opponent's stuff without the opponent having any chance to stop them unless they spend there whole $#%#$ free action GUARDING. WHERE THE HELL DOES IT TELL ABOUT GUARDING IN THE FREAKING SRD? Oh crap! You're right! It isn't in the SRD!! Neither are the arena maps, the prison, the 36 point buy, Greenwich Mean Time, Hunter Fights, the cap on expendables, cap on allies (I want em all!!!!), the market where I can always buy everything anytime, credits, the Nimbus, Delay penalties and thousand other things!!!! THESE ARE ALL HOUSE RULES ARGH!!! HAVE YOU GUYS REALIZED THAT??? We have to do away with them because house rules are BAD BAD %&$§& BAD and while we're at it, the map my DM put on the table during my last sunday's gaming session wasn't in the SRD either!!!! You know I think I will now go out and beat the crap out of him for so cheating on me and my character!! And I'm so glad Sindorin has pointed that crap out because last week, in band camp ...uh my gaming session, the following happened: DM: You come home and some of your stuff has been stolen by someone using Open lock then Searched your room. Cat: WHERE THE HELL DOES IT TELL ABOUT BURGLARY IN THE FREAKING SRD? should have been my answer but no no no I just said "Ouch" stupid me. I don't even want it retracted even after you all look at it and realize how stupid it is. There are just so many things going wrong with this place that maybe it is finally time to bow out after over two years of service here. Somebody PM me when the frozen leagues open up. I don't know why you people who make these house rules seem to think that my character has locks on his body where his tattoos are, but whatever. *spits because of bad taste in mouth* Now, not only is my level 4 stuck to having only 800 gp worth of stuff, but 1/4 of it just got stolen and won't be usable til the next match. I am seriously considering finding a better place to game just based on this crap we are throwing on the fire without a freaking vote. Wait Steve! Before you leave, we do it your way. Let me immideately delete that rule. And Barrel wants the Classic Coco back, and someone else wanted the 1/3 rule scrapped or he leaves so I'm going to do that too. But wait, if I do that, other guys leave. :lightbulb Ah I know we roll the dice!! 1 is John has to leave and 2 is Frank has to go. Let's just do away with ALL rules because that's cool and simple and no one can complain anymore and if we don't I'll quit! Because I hate rules and want a pure roleplaying board. Just let me make 10 accounts like Greezer so that I'm ready for the community poll. [/sarcasm] ______________ Seriously guys, I'm a bit fed up with all this complaining. The Rules of Gladius consist of 80% House Rules as do most rules on other boards but in case you didn't notice, these are necessary to run a board. No House Rules, no CoCo, no Guild House, not even the Castle of Fun runs without houserules. That said, there will always be those who like certain rules which others don't like and some even hate them while they on the other hand love the ones the others hate. It is impossible to make it right for everyone and if you think there's a rule that so kicks you in the face that you cannot participate anymore, then it's probably time to leave. I just cannot make it right for everyone. Every new rule is discussed in the council for weeks and it's always different from the original proposal, modified by the input of the community. You won't find that anywhere else on the boards. @Sindorin: Zevox has just PM'd me about what he has 'taken' after he 'autosucceeds in picking the lock'. So Zevox has decided to steal, of all things, TWO TATTOOS OF CHAMELEON!@!!@#@$ One thing to keep in mind, however, is that while stealing tattoos may not make any sense from a real world or common sense perspective, it makes perfect sense from a balance perspective, since tattoos are the psionic equivalent of oils/potions. That is the reason they were included in this skill function...it's a balancing effect so that all expendables (scrolls, potions/oils, powerstones, and tattoos) are affected. In this case, I think the balance side of the equation far outweighs the role-playing aspect. For those that are hung up on the role-playing explanation of how this works...think of it as not taking the tattoo, but rather defacing the tattoo in such a way as to make them temporarily unusable. Maybe Featylec went in and scribbled on them while Sin's character was sleeping or something, which caused them to temporarily not function. But then the functionality is restored by the Nimbus when the battle ends just as it would a sundered weapon. That's just off the top of my head...I'm sure those of you that are more creative than I am can come up with something better. EDIT: Steve, just so that you know: With this post I'm trying to get it in your thick head what I've explained a thousand times before yet you still come up with the same arguments over and over again -> House Rules are bad. I don't know where you got this impression from and why you think a houserule-less board can function in any fair way. In any case, I'm not trying to offend you.
SoulLord 05-18-06, 10:56 AM	@Cat: Tactics for Lissa sent via PM. Qustion: does the new 3WC rule cancel out the 1/3 rule or do they stack? and doesn't the new 3WC rule also potentialy put a person behind in thier XP/GP ratio as different levels have different XP/GP gain ratios? and how does 3WC effect the realtime time progression we have? the 3WC and the 1/3 rule stack; the discussion is in the council of gladius thread.
Sindorin 05-18-06, 11:36 AM	@ Caterane Thank you for putting it in the manner you did. You really got through to my "thick skull." I don't think I really have much to say after that post you just did, I even said I don't want the rule changed or retracted in my original post if you even cared to read it in detail. As I can tell that I am not wanted around here I will bow out without getting dirty about it like some have.
SoulLord 05-18-06, 11:43 AM	Tactics for Lantash sent to KingUther via PM. Tactics for Ten vermond sent by pm to Traevanon @bluemage55: you might wish to do the same
Stormwind 05-18-06, 01:31 PM	@Erithmu: Tactics for Cyra sent via PM.
Zevox 05-18-06, 02:11 PM	@ Mitza - Tactics for Destra (for the big hunter fight) have been sent. Good luck on that one. :twitch: @ Ariel23 & Waywreth - Tactics for Evaine and Loquan recieved. I'll run this fight this afternoon/evening and hopefully have it up tonight. Zevox
barrel_master 05-18-06, 02:11 PM	@DSugui: Tactics for KazzzAHM have been sent! @My gladiators: I'm waiting for your tactics, I'd like to run the fight on saturday, so please don't send them late. Anaconda, please don't forget that you can't bring your dragon (too high CR) and should'n't forgery be listed as a free action in the head-line? I will allow to bring it with you, but then you get nothing from crafting. Arg! Hey man isn't his horse 'pre-buffed'? :P
DSugui 05-18-06, 02:17 PM	@Mitza: tactics for Daisy and Valek sent by PM @Zevox: tactics for Dronanr sent by PM @bgt: tactics for Neidr received
SauroGrenom 05-18-06, 02:27 PM	As I can tell that I am not wanted around here I will bow out without getting dirty about it like some have.Should you hold to this decision, your participation in PSI will be missed.
MindWandererB 05-18-06, 02:43 PM	@Zevox and everyone: None of the new rules come into effect this week or next week. If you look at the mapper, the old cavern, great hall, and dungeon are still there. Battles still use whatever map they've always used. @Ravashack: Tactics received. Still waiting on Turin's before I can get started. Hopefully that is today; it's a good day for me to run battles.
Sindorin 05-18-06, 02:44 PM	Should you hold to this decision, your participation in PSI will be missed. Thanks, Sauro. I would miss playing both there and in EHTC, but I won't have to because I am stronger than that. Seaendithas is a build that at early levels requires some moderate use of some cheap expendables, and I got a bit miffed when tattoos were vandalized. Now a useless skill in the arena will become something any character who does not want to be burglarized needs to have some ranks in. Regardless that Cat felt like mocking not only me but anyone who has an opinion different than his, I will remain because I enjoy playing with you and everyone else here. I know Cat says he does not mean to offend, but when you defend your mockery of questions and comments that people pose with sarcasm it kind of puts a young lost soul into perspective. I will stay because I realize the intent of the rule. I don't have to agree with it, but I can play with it. I may complain about the 1/3 rule like it's a thorn in my side but really it isn't any longer, and even still I played with it as long as we have had it in use. I know that there are others here besides Caterane that are worth playing with, and so for that reason I will stay. If Caterane wants to take an attitude where he is going to make fun of anyone who doesn't agree with him and be childish, he is more than welcome. I have always had a good respectful opinion of him until he started refusing to put himself in other people's shoes. Now, instead of this, he shoots everything down because his opinion is *always* better. Since, like I said earlier, he has stooped to making fun of people who have been here a long time like barrel and myself, I have lost a great portion of that respect that I had for him - in many senses, the perspective his post put me in is one like this - I never meant any disrespect in saying that I don't agree with the presence of certain rules. My previous posts reflect that. For "commenting and concerning" my opinion on this thread I have been mocked and it is defended with a [/sarcasm] tag as well as an EDIT which is a complete lie - You can't pull the fish out of water and tell it to breathe. Just because you tell someone something "a thousand times" does not mean that after so long they will agree with you. I have always had disagreements with the rules, like I said, and I continue to abide by them and play fair. And that is what this thread is for, so I do not think that it is fair to mock people that comment on this thread. I do understand that there are skills that should be useful that are not in an arena setting. I also understand the intent of both the burglary and the guarding and the 1/3 rule. I don't have to agree with them, but I understand them. And I will be changing my Ghandi-ish tactics for Seaendithas so he gives Featylec a good clean fight. So on that note, are the 10th level characters allowed to craft? My guess is no right now but I could have sworn I saw others do it in weeks/months past.
Pittbull 05-18-06, 03:46 PM	Glad to hear that you won't leave, sweetest Sin. I would have missed you and your characters.
barrel_master 05-18-06, 04:04 PM	I'm also glad that sindorin is staying... you actually contribute to this board! Me... well I'm just a parasite... :P
Zevox 05-18-06, 04:24 PM	Likewise glad to hear you're not leaving Sin. The EHTC would certainly have missed you, and the last thing I want is to feel like something I did precipitated someone to quiting the boards. @ MindWandererB - Pitlords' post (about 3 above Cat's big one) seems to disagree with that, at least insofar as Hunter Fights go: Hunter Fights will take place on the Sewer Map until we have the random arenas included in the pairingsmaker. Zevox
MindWandererB 05-18-06, 04:27 PM	The following is my attempt to give an honest, unbiased, unheated opinion about changes in general. It is not meant to be insulting or degrading to anyone in any way, but constructive. Ultimately, the CoCo is a benevolent dictatorship. That's the arrangement that the WizO's insist on. That's the arrangement in most sort of games that use a GM. Cat has a responsibilty to make the game as good of an experience as possible, which means that sometimes he will risk losing current players in hopes of gaining new ones. So far, some of his gambles have paid off, and some have not. We have lost a few players over rules changes. Fortunately not many; most of the players who threaten to leave in a huff either change their minds when they've calmed down a bit, or come back a bit later. Some of the rules changes have worked out for the better--the old 1/3 rule prevented casters from dominating everything, for instance. Really, the 3WS is just a new attempt to fix the same problem in a more inclusive way. As such, I think it's a good idea, although I do think it still has a few bugs. Cat has another responsibility: making things actually happen. We have been debating the 3WC for over a month now, and it still won't be enacted for almost another month. This is good; it gives us time to discuss it further. I am actually grateful for the board updates, because it slows things down and gives us a chance to talk. Other changes have happened rather abruptly. The burglary rules, for instance, were put into play with a minimum of discussion. They may be somewhat unbalanced as-is, and there will be victims of playtesting. That's why I keep advocating doing test runs of new rules whenever possible before putting them into play. (In this case, I think the triple threat of the 3WS, the expendable cap, and the burglary rules will be too much to bear--without being able to go shopping, burglary is going to hurt. Besides which, it makes little sense that you could be burglarized in the middle of a 3WS but you can't go shopping.) Another example: the new maps. Cat's proposed city map had, IMO, a lot of problems. It took, what, three months? to finally get him to agree to a symmetrical map without acid and lava. What caused him to finally see the light, I don't know. But if that map had been enacted immediately, I think we would have been stuck with an unsatisfactory situation. I think we need two things which will make most people happy. 1) A mandatory rules discussion period. For each new rule that is officially on the table, and Cat would like to enact, start a discussion thread for it. That thread will be closed by Cat, with a final message about the final result of the discussion, after a minimum of one month (or until Cat is happy with the discussion, whichever comes later). That will ensure that no rules sneak by us or jump in without notice, at least for most people. The burglary rules caught Sindorin by surprise here; an official discussion thread with a minimum life of one month would reduce the credibility of such complaints. 2) A bit of validation. Honestly, Cat, you tend to run a little roughshod over us at times. A few words here and there to say, "that's a valid concern, and I see where you're coming from, but here's my counterargument" rather than saying "you obviously don't understand, you're wrong, and we're doing it my way" would go a long way. And I have one more suggestion: a reduction on mandatory rules. It's one thing to use Forgery to bring in more powerful allies than usual. That can be worked into a character's build, and opponents don't have to be aware of it. But the Burglary rules are an obscure house rule, tucked into a small part of the rules, that everyone has to be aware of to protect themselves. Perhaps switching Burglary around--allow the burglar to steal from a shop, granting himself a bonus expandable after he knows who his opponent will be. Those are my thoughts. Take them as you will.
SoulLord 05-18-06, 04:28 PM	@Sindorin Glad to see you are staying man. I fel like campaigning how about it Uther?
MitzaVolchenko 05-18-06, 04:36 PM	@my PL's, tactics sent @those that have posted here, tactics received. @Sindorin, thank you for staying. Thank you for getting that response in before I read Cat's response. Fortunately I kept reading after Cat's response rather than popping off what his response eoked in me. @Cat, you have been increasingly dictatorial lately. You have been dismissive, and in this case outright rude to people that play here, volunteer here, and generally are real parts of this community. I would ask that before you respond to this, please sit back and think about it. I am fairly certain you have classed me as a hothead. Fine. I don't really think you can class NiQil, Sindorin, and a number of others as hotheads. You used one person leaving as an example of why we should go with your rules. What about the rest of us whose joy is bing killed? We aren't trying to attack you, we are trying to be heard and respected. That has not been the response from you in a good long while. I respect the hell out of the amount of work you do to make CoCo happen, but I do not respect the tone or attitude that has been your norm of late. @Everyone. Taking my own advice, I have been a bit overly aggressive in my responses lately and have allowed myself to become hooked by the tone of responses from those I am in disagreement with. I do not personally wish to kill anyone's fun or add to their stress. Frustration is not an excuse for poor behavior. My apologies.
barrel_master 05-18-06, 04:47 PM	@my PL's, tactics sent @those that have posted here, tactics received. @Sindorin, thank you for staying. Thank you for getting that response in before I read Cat's response. Fortunately I kept reading after Cat's response rather than popping off what his response eoked in me. @Cat, you have been increasingly dictatorial lately. You have been dismissive, and in this case outright rude to people that play here, volunteer here, and generally are real parts of this community. I would ask that before you respond to this, please sit back and think about it. I am fairly certain you have classed me as a hothead. Fine. I don't really think you can class NiQil, Sindorin, and a number of others as hotheads. You used one person leaving as an example of why we should go with your rules. What about the rest of us whose joy is bing killed? We aren't trying to attack you, we are trying to be heard and respected. That has not been the response from you in a good long while. I respect the hell out of the amount of work you do to make CoCo happen, but I do not respect the tone or attitude that has been your norm of late. @Everyone. Taking my own advice, I have been a bit overly aggressive in my responses lately and have allowed myself to become hooked by the tone of responses from those I am in disagreement with. I do not personally wish to kill anyone's fun or add to their stress. Frustration is not an excuse for poor behavior. My apologies. You should apoligize... for your Avatar! What the heck is that? It doesn't turn me or anything like that! I demand you get a more attractive avatar... I recomend Josie Maran.
bluemage55 05-18-06, 06:28 PM	Tactics for Ten vermond sent by pm to Traevanon @bluemage55: you might wish to do the same Damn, I saw the post that KingUther would be accepting fights, and ours was the only one left. Tactics resent to Traevanon. My apologies to KingUther.
Traevanon 05-18-06, 07:46 PM	Tactics recieved. I'll get this fight going tonight and hopefully have it done for you tomorrow around noon (Eastern US time) unless it runs long.
Erithmu 05-18-06, 08:10 PM	@Stalker: Tactics for Sola sent - going for a different result this time @Mitza: Tactics for Loddick sent I have tactics for Cyra vs Kracknol: probably get run Sat sometime
King Uther 05-18-06, 08:34 PM	@SoulLord Which character do you want to campaign with? Start new characters? Tell me what you want to do as far as that goes, and we'll start a campaign as soon as possible. I'm sure there are 3 other players who would gladly join a campaign. 2 choices: 1. Stop the Gith army permanently quest(only if you play with Vandelar) 2. A quest with entirely new character, where exploration of the World of Gladius is the focal point. Probably focus on a currently non-existent kingdom, with a lot of political intrigue. I'm thinking for this one, 4 EL3 characters that will in 16-20 weeks level to 9th.
King Uther 05-18-06, 08:35 PM	If The White Hand is doing a full activity, Alagar, brother of Angosh will gladly fight Dronnar.
Zevox 05-18-06, 09:06 PM	Evaine vs Loquan is up. Had to make a judgement call due to a tactics gap on one end; hope my decision there isn't a problem. This was actually a fun fight to run until about round 5, when I had to start writing small essays for each round's actions and rolling enough dice for a small army :twitch: . @ DSugui - Tactics for Dronnar recieved. @ TM - So, is TWH fighting or not? @ My other players - The sooner I have tactics, the sooner they get run. I work tomorrow, but saturday is wide open, so I could likely do a fight or two then. Zevox
King Uther 05-18-06, 09:12 PM	@SauroGrenom Tactics for Balbanes sent via PM. It's been a while, so it took longer than I thought.
Ariel23 05-18-06, 09:26 PM	Can I buy a guard dog? What is its DC? What about a spouse and 8 kids? Roommates? Maybe an ECL 10 who is frozen? What if I don't have a house and nothing listed under "at-home?" Can we pre-buff "Alarm"? How long does it need to last? [i]No But you're right, I think random items would make more sense--and tattoos make no sense at all. Actually... If the wearer of a psionic tattoo is rendered unconscious or is slain, another sentient creature can touch the tattoo while willing it to leave the previous wearer and apply itself to the new creature as a standard action. Sleep = Unconscious but this raises so many issues --Elves and other races; Ring of Sustenance, etc --Wouldn't this require Hide/MS to not wake up sleeping residents? --Sleight of Hand to take the item (tattoo) off the person without waking them up --What about allies? I'm fighting Loquan Darath this week and he has about 4 extra allies that aren't even doing anything...they could guard his place. Not to mention tireless air elementals and so forth I'd say if you can steal their tattoos, why stop there? Take their familiar! :devil: Can a ghost get a tattoo from an NPC with a Tattoo Needle of Ghost Touch? @Pitlords: Normally I would be willing to step in for an ECL 3 or 4 fight but I will be gone for a wedding.
King Uther 05-18-06, 09:53 PM	@Vath Tactics for Virgo sent via PM. We are at opposite strengths of what we are good at. Should be interesting who gets lucky, as I think that factor will weigh heavily on the match.
Ariel23 05-18-06, 09:59 PM	I'm not going to say house rules are good or bad. It depends on the rule. But I have a theory that younger players [started playing with 3e; not their RL age] will have a harder time accepting them. If you've ever used the term "Memorize Spells": you've played 1st or 2nd edition (or any Basic or boxed game) and you've played in a game that had more house rules than rules. People that have only played 3e/3.5 generally say "Prepare Spells" (since that's what it's called now). At least that's how I usually discern between the veterans and the new players. 3.5 is very rules heavy, whereas previous incarnations were very rules light. At times it seems like 3.5 has a rule, faq, errata, rules of the game article, etc to cover every situation, but that's really not true. Even if it were, nobody could possibly know them all. Most of us were conditioned in 1e (AD&D) and 2e to expect a multiplicity of house rules, whereas 3.5e has made D&D heavily "standardized." With 3.5, [I]in general, you can sit down with any DM anywhere and have a reasonable expectation of how your character will be made, how combat will be conducted, etc. To take it to the extreme, you could play in Living Greyhawk and literally sit down with any DM in any country anywhere in the world and play in his adventure without a single question about the campaign! - - - - - - - - - - - - I was thinking about people leaving and wondered if maybe people tired of new arena rules couldn't instead participate in MQ or quests or campaigns together until the rules are changed to their liking (or have become tolerable). To a certain extent, arena rules do not apply to quests, and IMO the questlord has a good deal more discretion than a Pitlord. Just a thought. I realize some changes still apply to quests and such. I am not saying Cat should not bend sometimes, but there is always another option besides 100% agree or 100% disagree and leave never to return. I don't know why it seems I am defending Cat so much lately. I disagree with 25% of the rules in CoCo (believe me), but it's still the best arena we've got. :D I also would rather have a pro-active moderator (or whatever Caterane is called) than a lazy, unimaginative one. I would rather play in a setting that can change, than in one that cannot. So maybe I'm not really defending him so much as picking change and Chaos over Law and order? But a Chaotic person would want rule by the people whereas a Lawful person would want the dictatorship. *sigh* Maybe I really am True Neutral.
Zevox 05-18-06, 10:36 PM	But I have a theory that younger players [started playing with 3e; not their RL age] will have a harder time accepting them. If you've ever used the term "Memorize Spells": you've played 1st or 2nd edition (or any Basic or boxed game) and you've played in a game that had more house rules than rules. People that have only played 3e/3.5 generally say "Prepare Spells" (since that's what it's called now). At least that's how I usually discern between the veterans and the new players. Strangely enough, its the opposite with me. I'm fine with pretty much all the house rules here, use the term "memorize spells," and play with a number of house rules and little care about the regular rules in my real games, yet I only started playing D&D (and DDM) about a year and a half ago. a Lawful person would want the dictatorship. Not necessarily - I'm definitely lawful, yet I'd never want a dictatorship. A good active, strong ruler yes, but never a dictatorship. (This being what I'd say is probably the difference between LG and LE.) [/sidetrack] Anyway, any comments on Evaine vs Loquan from your end? Zevox
Traevanon 05-18-06, 11:12 PM	In the CoCo if you have the following skills on your class list do you have their Psionic equivalents as well and vice versa? Use Magic Device Spellcraft Or does it go by the SRD where these are excluded from transparency.
bluemage55 05-18-06, 11:37 PM	According to the Rules of Gladius thread, they are separate. UMD applies to magical items and UPD applies to psionic items, but not vice versa.
Ariel23 05-18-06, 11:46 PM	Evaine vs Loquan is up. Had to make a judgement call due to a tactics gap on one end; hope my decision there isn't a problem. This was actually a fun fight to run until about round 5, when I had to start writing small essays for each round's actions and rolling enough dice for a small army :twitch: I think a map like this says it all: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;a=Eva,M,0,21,0,22;b=Loq,M,-1,28,-3,25,-1,22;c=Aroz,M,0,23,0,24;d=Zex,M,-1,26;e=Grif,L,0,26,0,27;f=Thoq,M,1,22;o= Ob%20Mist,1,25,4 It looks good to me, especially considering the amount of effort that goes into running 6 actors per turn. I guess the one plus of having so many allies is that the damage comes quickly and in large numbers. 1 on 1 might have taken 2-3 times longer so maybe it evens out in the long run. Thanks a lot for running, and so quickly. Here's my notes, for general consumption, just in case it matters later. Manifest Defensively (mostly Round 5)-Avoid AoO's from serious melee threats (i.e., fighter or a big nature's ally. Not the casters)The Thoquaa is the biggest type of SNA the druid can bring in to the fight. She would need to roll a 4 on 1d20 to succeed at Manifesting Defensively. Trip/Guisarme (Round 6): You only drop your weapon if the return Trip succeeds. If you miss on the touch attack, you wouldn't drop it. Basically the attacker/tripper has to hit then lose 2 opposed checks in a row. I definitely don't care in regards to our fight, but I just thought I'd mention that you can't take 5' steps in Obscuring Mist. http://d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#hamperedMovement Even if I did care, this is a good example of a mistake that could be ignored, simply because both sides gained the same advantage from not using it. Thanks again!
Zevox 05-19-06, 12:07 AM	The scary thing is, that map is without Evaine's construct (not enough pins). And I know of someone whos running a match with 8 creatures from the get-go this week (Mitza, the Hunter fight with Destra + 3 wolves and Enoch + horse plus two other PCs... my sympathies). Manifest Defensively (mostly Round 5)The Thoquaa is the biggest type of SNA the druid can bring in to the fight. She would need to roll a 4 on 1d20 to succeed at Manifesting Defensively. Ah, sorry about that. Oh well, the AoO missed anyway, the failed concentration came when the Thoqqua actually attacked and you were still summoning (1-round manifesting time), so it makes no difference. Trip/Guisarme (Round 6): You only drop your weapon if the return Trip succeeds. If you miss on the touch attack, you wouldn't drop it. Basically the attacker/tripper has to hit then lose 2 opposed checks in a row. Doh :doh: ! Messed that one up bad. Shows how much I use the trip rules, eh? If an edit ends up necessary I'll put that in (actually, now that I think of it, Evaine couldn't CDG in round 8 because of that, though odds are either her or one of her friends could finish Loquan's last 2 hp anyway since he had an AC of 9 at that point). I definitely don't care in regards to our fight, but I just thought I'd mention that you can't take 5' steps in Obscuring Mist. http://d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#hamperedMovement Even if I did care, this is a good example of a mistake that could be ignored, simply because both sides gained the same advantage from not using it. Hmm... well, thats one rule I really don't agree with (you can't see very well, so you have to expend double movement to move? What? Shouldn't that be a choice to move slower for caution rather than mandatory?), but in any case you're right, it doesn't matter all that much since both sides got it (though honestly Loquan got more out of it than Evaine, but *shrugs*). Zevox
MysticMonk2005 05-19-06, 01:57 AM	@DSugi: Tactics for Tueor Vs Zwei sent.
Erithmu 05-19-06, 02:43 AM	Cyra vs Kracknol is up Please check for errors, it was quarter to midnight when I was finishing it up, and I'm not feeling 'healthy'
MitzaVolchenko 05-19-06, 03:34 AM	@ Zevox MQ is started here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9194327#post9194327) @Iced Is there a preamble or notion that your MQ is centered on, or shall I wing it? You should apoligize... for your Avatar! What the heck is that? It doesn't turn me or anything like that! I demand you get a more attractive avatar... I recomend Josie Maran. It is bright and easy to spot when I am browsing for my own posts. I am also the only one on this board using that avvie ;) If you want a pretty face, I suggest you talk to Sybil or Sliver. They are cute. I have never been, am not now, nor ever shall be anything resembling cute. Those that claim I am cute tend to have 'accidents' involving sharp implements and tender regions of their anatomy. Now if you are attracted to the idea of pain....nah, too easy ;) Thanks for making me smile, btw.
Stormwind 05-19-06, 05:08 AM	Cyra vs Kracknol is up Please check for errors, it was quarter to midnight when I was finishing it up, and I'm not feeling 'healthy' Hi Erithmu, Thanks for running the fight, especially in such a timely fashion :D There are a few minor 'errors', actually just things where you haven't applied Cyra's tactics, however none of them change the outcome at all and so no changes/edits are really required. Anyway, here they are: Round 13: Cyra should get a reflex save to avoid the hit due to the arrow deflecting ability on her shield. Round 16: Cyra should get a reflex save to avoid the hit due to the arrow deflecting ability on her shield. Round 17: Cyra should get a reflex save to avoid the hit due to the arrow deflecting ability on her shield. Notes: - Your decision on round 13 (no cover for Krack and no hide for Cyra) is fine with me. Especially since once she was located, her tactics no longer require her to hide, thus she could even move to a position above Krack on the ceiling -> no hide, no cover. - I loved the random comments from round 14 on ;) - Regarding the stacking of the elixir and the tattoo ... I added this and then completely forgot to add the tattoo use into her tactics ... duh ... my mistake.
Stormwind 05-19-06, 05:16 AM	@SoulLord Which character do you want to campaign with? Start new characters? Tell me what you want to do as far as that goes, and we'll start a campaign as soon as possible. I'm sure there are 3 other players who would gladly join a campaign. 2 choices: 1. Stop the Gith army permanently quest(only if you play with Vandelar) 2. A quest with entirely new character, where exploration of the World of Gladius is the focal point. Probably focus on a currently non-existent kingdom, with a lot of political intrigue. I'm thinking for this one, 4 EL3 characters that will in 16-20 weeks level to 9th. @King Uther: I would gladly create a new EL3 character for an exploration campaign if you'll have me :D. Is there any general type of character that you would prefer to see?
Salrantol 05-19-06, 05:21 AM	The scary thing is, that map is without Evaine's construct (not enough pins). And I know of someone whos running a match with 8 creatures from the get-go this week (Mitza, the Hunter fight with Destra + 3 wolves and Enoch + horse plus two other PCs... my sympathies). It gets worse if situations prompt Enoch to cast Summon Monster II twice from memory, Summon Monster I from memory, and Summon Monster II 8 times from scrolls....
Vathelokai 05-19-06, 08:48 AM	Tactics for all of my fights sent! Tactics recieved for Virgo. Still waiting for Telveran.
waywreth 05-19-06, 08:54 AM	Evaine vs Loquan is up. Had to make a judgement call due to a tactics gap on one end; hope my decision there isn't a problem. This was actually a fun fight to run until about round 5, when I had to start writing small essays for each round's actions and rolling enough dice for a small army :twitch: .Zevox Damn, I was hoping for more Ego whipping. Thanks for the update on the spell levels though, much appreciated. And apparently I need more allies. :schemes: Thanks for running the fight.
Sunwolf 05-19-06, 10:42 AM	@Vath Tactics for Telveran sent by PM
SoulLord 05-19-06, 11:05 AM	@SoulLord Which character do you want to campaign with? Start new characters? Tell me what you want to do as far as that goes, and we'll start a campaign as soon as possible. I'm sure there are 3 other players who would gladly join a campaign. 2 choices: 1. Stop the Gith army permanently quest(only if you play with Vandelar) 2. A quest with entirely new character, where exploration of the World of Gladius is the focal point. Probably focus on a currently non-existent kingdom, with a lot of political intrigue. I'm thinking for this one, 4 EL3 characters that will in 16-20 weeks level to 9th. well both quests appeal to me but I don't think I have enough credits to pull it off. I think I'll go with option 2 and send my assasain in training there. as for the 5 feet movemenet hampered by difficult terrain it's true (you learn something new every day) Take 5-Foot Step You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance. You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round. You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature. You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.
Traevanon 05-19-06, 11:46 AM	Lantash (bluemage55) vs Ten Vermond (Soulord) fight is Complete! That was fun, and much easier than my first match. There was much page flipping through the books, which I dont mind at all. The dynamic map generator is NICE! I wish the CoCo dice roller could be pinned to the top layer of windows, but I only just thought of it, so maybe it can be.
SauroGrenom 05-19-06, 12:05 PM	Erithmu, I looked at the fight, and thanks for getting it up so fast. The only and most important error I see is that in the 1st round Kracknol should charge attack Cyra. Your comment in red describes how Cyra is infact 185 feet away. This is true, but Kracknol doesn't need to enter her square to attack her. Kracknol only needs to cover at most 180' of distance to get into a position where he can attack her. Also remember that Kracknol is flying on a large creature. Most pitlords (and dracazar's mapper) have the cordinates describe the top left corner of the creature. You don't specify, but if that is the case then Kracknol only needs to move a total of 170' to charge. Moving that distance should be possible with a "Spur Mount" check. In any case Kracknol and Raknital should try that charge/pounce/rake right away. Once melee is begun, I have trouble imagining that Cyra would be able to escape melee. Cyra must succeed on 2 tumble checks each time she tries to escape melee. Once for Kracknol and once for Raknital, and the second check has a DC of 17. Even if she succeeds she can only move 10' with a move action, and Raknital will easily catch Cyra. At that point melee should be every round untill the end of the fight or Raknital is slain. Hopefully Kracknol will get a couple more chances to attack before the end. Please look into it. I know that you put some effort into the fight already and if I'm right, that the corse of the fight will be very very different.
SoulLord 05-19-06, 12:40 PM	Lantash (bluemage55) vs Ten Vermond (Soulord) fight is Complete! That was fun, and much easier than my first match. There was much page flipping through the books, which I dont mind at all. The dynamic map generator is NICE! I wish the CoCo dice roller could be pinned to the top layer of windows, but I only just thought of it, so maybe it can be. Thanks for running the fight Traevanon could you please adjust the gather information free activity as it was used to buy a black market item not to earn money :)
Stormwind 05-19-06, 01:23 PM	@Sauro, Erithmu: I just checked the movement for round 1 of the fight. On Kracknol's initiative he is at (0,-22) (front center) and Cyra is at (23,5,5) (right corner). To get to Cyra takes 24 diagonal squares (NE) and 3 vertical squares (N), and must ascend to 20ft (5 feet below Cyra). Ascending to 20ft costs 40ft in movement due to Rak's average flight maneuverability. The 3 squares north takes 15ft in movement. When measuring diagonals every second square costs twice, and thus the 24 squares NE costs 36 squares of movement or 180ft. This means that the distance at ground level is 195ft (180+15). Since ascending and moving can be done at the same time this means that it would take a total of 215ft (195-20overlap+40ascent) of movement to reach Cyra. Clearly not possible. @Sauro: Part of Cyra's tactics was based on ensuring that Rak (and Kracknol) could not reach her in a charge on the first round. This is why she climbed the column. Even if Cyra had been in the closer corner of her starting square to Kracknol it would have taken a total of 195ft for him to get to her due to the need to ascend to at least 20ft.
Erithmu 05-19-06, 01:46 PM	@Sauro: I always use top left corner for large creatures (it is almost standard around here) And I did measure, however I did mess up in my placement of Cyra (I use literal elevation: 5,10,15 instead of 'squares' and Cyra should be at +20: This is an error half due to my fault and using her square elevation as literal elevation, and thus my distances are off) due to the hampered movement rules you can't charge while accending. And the distance is still to far as Stormwind has stated. Re: tumble, I'll have to go back and make the second tumble check. Melee: The hard part about melee is that Cyra is normally at +30 elevation and Rak has avg manuverability and no hover feat and thus must maintain forward movement. So you will end up having to still move onward. I am working on my other fight and have kinda reached the point where I need some food, as both tactics have kinda gone crappy. So I wont get to it until Sat.
Sindorin 05-19-06, 01:58 PM	Tactics for Seaendithas PM'd to Huan.
bluemage55 05-19-06, 01:59 PM	Lantash (bluemage55) vs Ten Vermond (Soulord) fight is Complete! That was fun, and much easier than my first match. There was much page flipping through the books, which I dont mind at all. The dynamic map generator is NICE! I wish the CoCo dice roller could be pinned to the top layer of windows, but I only just thought of it, so maybe it can be. Thank you for running the fight Traevanon, but I have spotted two errors in the battle. First, Summon Monster I creates Small Fiendish Vipers, not Tiny Fiendish Vipers. This means that they do have a reach of 5 ft. and accordingly do not provoke AoOs when attacking, and also threaten AoOs as well. This means that the viper Lantash summoned should have been able to attack Ten, and should have blocked Ten's direct path to Lantash, buying either an AoO if Ten was willing to take it, or forcing Ten to kill the viper first. Also, it didn't really matter in this fight since Ten missed, but if an opponent tries to attack someone protected by sanctuary and fail, they do not retarget their attack, but lose the action entirely. I consider the first error a rather important one as that could have made the difference in the battle, and I would like to request that the fight is rerun appropriately.
SauroGrenom 05-19-06, 02:05 PM	@Sauro, Erithmu: I just checked the movement for round 1 of the fight. On Kracknol's initiative he is at (0,-22) (front center) and Cyra is at (23,5,5) (right corner). To get to Cyra takes 24 diagonal squares (NE) and 3 vertical squares (N), and must ascend to 20ft (5 feet below Cyra). Ascending to 20ft costs 40ft in movement due to Rak's average flight maneuverability. The 3 squares north takes 15ft in movement. When measuring diagonals every second square costs twice, and thus the 24 squares NE costs 36 squares of movement or 180ft. This means that the distance at ground level is 195ft (180+15). Since ascending and moving can be done at the same time this means that it would take a total of 215ft (195-20overlap+40ascent) of movement to reach Cyra. Clearly not possible. Stormwind, I think you missunderstand the representation of the upward dimension used in this battle. The 5 does not indicate 25 feet from the ground. In later rounds elevation is indicated to be 35 and such. The Arena is not that tall unless the number given is infact the vertical distance moved. I don't have the old map printout in front of me right now at work, and the map in the character's thread has changed. It appears that since our pitlord was using corrdinates for the old map, that it is where the battle took place. I may be wrong, but when I counted it out at home this morning, it thought that Raknital could close the distance with about 10' left. Even if Cyra were to move up the highest possible in a single move action, she would achieve a height of at most 15 feet from the ground. This is because she has a climp speed of only 20. It takes 5' to move onto the wall at altitude 0, then the reamining 15' of movement allows her to climb up gaining an altitude of 15' Any movement along the wall or around a corner will cost her movement as well and further limit her abiity to climb in that single move. Kracknol would only need to gain 5' of altitude to strike Cyra if she has an altitude of 15' since Kracknol is a 10' cube and naturally threatins an area 15' above his "elevation" and 5' below it. Only one square of movement up is required to attack into her location (assuming Cyra moves 15' up the pilliar). Edit: Erithmu's post came in as I was writing this. However the maximal height Cyra can achieve is still limited to only 15' in the first round assuming she doesn't move around the pilliars. Erithmu, Yes Raknital does have to move atleast 40' in a round to stay in the air, however it is easy for him to make the needed circle in the air and end a single movement in the same square he began and still allow both Raknital and Kracknol to attack that round and continue to threatin Cyra on her next round.
Erithmu 05-19-06, 02:21 PM	@Sauro: both points noted, I'll have a second look at the fight. Also since drac's mapper hasn't switched to the new map, I was still using the old one so that I could easily map it/get distances. My appoligies. Edit: I will be keeping some rolls, but will be rerolling most things, this will go for both sides. It is more of a pain to keep track of where I am in the rolling cycle and easier to just roll new stuff.
Stormwind 05-19-06, 02:42 PM	@Sauro, Erithmu: I had forgotten that Cyra no longer had her psionic focus and thus Speed of thought no longer applied when she moved. Thus Sauro is correct she can only get to 15ft (rather than 25ft) in round 1. Note that she can move diagonally one square (even in 3D) without an additional movement cost, therefore her movement is otherwise correct. Still, it is irrelevant anyway since the horizontal movement alone (along the ground) is 195ft, which is too far for Kracknol to charge in round 1.
SauroGrenom 05-19-06, 02:43 PM	@Sauro: both points noted, I'll have a second look at the fight. Also since drac's mapper hasn't switched to the new map, I was still using the old one so that I could easily map it/get distances. My appoligies. No reason to appologise. Honestly you deserve lots of credit for getting the fight done so fast. Thanks for looking it over again although it will take a bit of luck for Kracknol to win in any case.
Abyssal Stalker 05-19-06, 02:54 PM	@My players: Tactics received, I'll run the fights when I get the time. I'm sorry but I'm being quite busy, I have quite a lot of matters to attend to. @My Pitlords: Tacitcs sent for Jonathon, Manzarf and Taker.
Erithmu 05-19-06, 04:13 PM	The other ECL 8 fight: Auburn vs Anixx is up. Some pitlord modifications taken, as couple of tactics broke down. I stand by any judgment calls that were not decided by dice. Please review.
MindWandererB 05-19-06, 04:29 PM	Perius vs. Ivangar is done. Pretty dang straightforward. Oh, forgot to mention earlier: @Mizta: tactics for Sunstroke sent. Dracazar has not been around since May 11, and he's supposed to be doing a monster fight for me.... well, I can be a bit more patient, but someone else may have to take that one if he doesn't show up soon. Fortunately my tactics will be somewhat limited since I won't know anything about the monster.
Erithmu 05-19-06, 04:41 PM	@MindwanderB: Got ya covered: Monster: Large sized ugly Quadraped I'll have an offical post up in the Fights thread soon, This fight will take place on the dungeon map since it is still located in Drac's auto mapper if that is ok with you. heck i will give you choice Dungeon map here (http://www.hwx.it/coco/index.php?map=dungeon) If you want the sewer map it just means my work is harder. EDIT!!! HUGE Sized Ugly Quadraped (Sorry, didn't check size from what it really was, and I thought wrong)
MindWandererB 05-19-06, 05:28 PM	@Erithmu: Horribly inadequate tactics have been sent.
Caterane 05-19-06, 05:32 PM	Lissa vs 7 Ogres is done.
Ariel23 05-19-06, 06:14 PM	@waywreth: Allies don't get max HD at first level. I may post in the prison because I need the credits, even though it may be a while before they are tallied. Also, as far as violations go, it's kind of an important one, especially for your wimpy thralls. Characters get maximum hit points at level 1. Additional Hit Dice will grant hit points as shown below. The total hp's will then be rounded down to the nearest whole number. Example: A level 4 Wizard with a 12 Con would have: 4 + 3 x 2.5 + 4 x 1 = 4 + 7.5 + 4 = 15.5 hps, which rounds down to 15 hps. Allies do not get a maximized first HD. Ariel23 - You sure you want to retire Evaine? Shes pretty damned good, and quite the interesting and original character concept. No, I'm not set on retiring her. You know, she had a losing record--this fight just now puts her at 8 wins and 8 losses. I think she looks good on paper. But, when I made her it was the first time I'd ever cracked open the psionic rules (I've subsequently bought XPH and Complete Psionics). There's no penalty to rotating characters AFAIK. If I have 3-4, I'm pretty sure I can ready only 2 (or 1) each week, right?
TheMagister 05-19-06, 07:18 PM	Hey, all. Sorry I've been absent, had a computer malfunction at home (it's still feeling unwell) and just got back into work after a 7-day hiatus. @DSugui and Zevox - TWH is doing a full activity this week, doing some shopping and haggling for a nice, pretty wand of Acid Arrow. @Pitlords - Did I mess up TWH's title line? I was so careful! @SauroGrenom and King Uther - Sdentch's tactics will be in by tonight, probably early. King, you've had too good of a look at Sdentch's tactics and capabilities...I can't imagine this would be much of a challenge for you... Can Sdentch keep Auburn's ring of counterspells (dispel magic)? =) TM
TheMagister 05-19-06, 07:44 PM	Looking over Balbanes' sheet. Sdentch is SO screwed (and that's an image that will haunt me...). @ King Uther - you're a mean, mean man. I mean, I knew...but now I know. That is carefully crafted destruction in an angelic package right there. Sdentch has NO chance of winning. And he can bring any TWO of those allies with him to an arena fight? Yeesh. Pick your poison, Sdentch could probably easily lose against any two of those allies, much less throwing Balbanes into the mix. May the expendable curse hit you hard. =) TM
Erithmu 05-19-06, 08:09 PM	Cyra vs Kracknol rerun has been completed: here The result did not change. I did my best to explain my actions, and stand by my choices in being in line with the tactics submitted by both characters. A difference was made, but Cyra managed to roll well enough for it not to matter. I hope that both players are satisfied with the quality of the run, even if they didn't win.
TheMagister 05-19-06, 08:14 PM	Cyra vs Kracknol rerun has been completed: here (9193483) The result did not change. I did my best to explain my actions, and stand by my choices in being in line with the tactics submitted by both characters. A difference was made, but Cyra managed to roll well enough for it not to matter. I hope that both players are satisfied with the quality of the run, even if they didn't win. Your link's busted. TM
TheMagister 05-19-06, 08:19 PM	@SauroGrenom and King Uther - tactics for Sdentch vs. Balbanes and the Horde sent via PM. May the higher diplomacy check win. =) TM
Erithmu 05-19-06, 08:20 PM	Your link's busted. TM Fixed
Turin 05-19-06, 08:42 PM	Perius vs. Ivangar is done. Pretty dang straightforward.Brutal. There wasn't much Ivangar could do against that one... as soon as Perius could manage to target Ivangar it was only a matter of a very short time before Ivangar went down. At least it was a cheap loss. :(
King Uther 05-19-06, 08:57 PM	@TM I thought that would be the case too, but reading the rules exactly shows that Balbanes can only bring 1 ally right now, because it's not the CR of the challenge(like CR4 and CR4=6), but the added CRs(CR4+CR4=8). Next level, with the help of Forgery, Balbanes will be able to bring his level 8 Druid Cohort AND a CR4 ally. That's what'll be fun.
DSugui 05-19-06, 09:42 PM	@DSugui and Zevox - TWH is doing a full activity this week, doing some shopping and haggling for a nice, pretty wand of Acid Arrow. @Pitlords - Did I mess up TWH's title line? I was so careful! What now? Its unfair to me that Dronnar stays without a fight this week, but I think it's also unfair to TM if TWH is forced to fight. My suggestion: Zevox could set up a monster fight for Dronnar. If Pitlords agree with that, of course.
Zevox 05-19-06, 11:14 PM	@ TM/KU/Dsugui - I see the problem here: TWH is only haggling for a single item. That is a free activity. A full activity requires haggling for two items at once. Thats why you were paired. So, unless you want to add something else to TWH's shopping list, his pairing is completely legal and I'll need some tactics for it. If you do and he does a full activity, I'll PM Pitlords and ask if Dronnar can be reassigned either to fight Alagar or to have a monster match. Thats how things stand atm with this match. @ Abyssal - Tactics for Manzarf recieved. @ Gonbow - Waiting on Yasha's tactics for that fight. There's no penalty to rotating characters AFAIK. If I have 3-4, I'm pretty sure I can ready only 2 (or 1) each week, right? You can activate 1-2 per week for free, and more than that for 1 credit per character after the second. I take it that means you plan on activating a couple more characters, eh? Looking forward to seeing them :cool: . As for Evaine, I quite agree, she does look good on paper, and I'm surprised her record isn't better. Plus its nice to see a character that breaks rather dramatically from a lot of the cookie-cutting things we have around here (Half-Giant grapplers, for instance, or Grey Elf wizards or psions). Thats why I was surprised to hear you mention retiring her. Zevox
TheMagister 05-19-06, 11:19 PM	{raises eyebrows in surprise} Ah, so! Well, then. I'll get right on that. Expect tactics for TWH in an hour or so. TM
Traevanon 05-19-06, 11:30 PM	Lantash (bluemage55) vs Ten Vermond (Soulord) ECL3 fight has been edited to replace the erroneous Tiny Viper with a Fiendish Small Viper. The original fight is still there in an SBlock above the new, edited fight. The Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9192612&postcount=589) I'm sure that the edit will satisfy one combatant more than the other, but I hope that both sides consider it fair. Edit: Incidentally I noticed that I forgot a couple of small details in the battle, such as what happened to Ten's bow and lance when he switched weapons. I'm glad that Ten didnt need them again because they would be sitting on the arena floor where he left them. Also Lantash had a Luck Domain reroll he could have used to reroll the skill check where he fell from his mount, but he needed a 19 on the die. Having no instructions to do so and unaware that that would be his only opportunity to use it, I still would have passed. Lastly horses are loud. I'm surprised that there is no Move Silently modifier for being large.
Salrantol 05-19-06, 11:40 PM	@DSugui: Tactics for Meinrad the Many-Fisted sent. @MitzaVolchenko: Tactics for Enoch the Prophet sent. @Caterane: I think your pairings generator owes Vathelokai an apology for pitting Hassan, with his most potent attacks being with his bow, against not one, but TWO characters with Deflect Arrows.
TheMagister 05-20-06, 12:37 AM	@ Zevox and DSugui - Tactics for TWH sent vs. Dronnar via PM. Good luck, sir! TM
MindWandererB 05-20-06, 12:40 AM	@Caterane: I think your pairings generator owes Vathelokai an apology for pitting Hassan, with his most potent attacks being with his bow, against not one, but TWO characters with Deflect Arrows.I think that is less the fault of the pairing system than the fact that warrior builds are taking Deflect Arrows increasingly more often. The 2-level dip into Monk for Improved Grapple and Deflect Arrows, and the CoCo house rule allowing natural weapons to count as Improved Unarmed Strike, are both way too tempting for one-on-one duels. I'm guessing that as the higher ECLs open up, nearly every character will have either Deflect Arrows or an Arrow Deflecting shield--maybe sometimes both.
Ravashack 05-20-06, 12:59 AM	Brutal. There wasn't much Ivangar could do against that one... as soon as Perius could manage to target Ivangar it was only a matter of a very short time before Ivangar went down. At least it was a cheap loss. :( Yeah, I thought you had a good chance until I saw how high Perius was rolling on the Charisma damage (at least 3 4s on 6d4 Charisma damage...). Thanks for running the fight MindWandererB.
MindWandererB 05-20-06, 01:06 AM	Yeah, I thought you had a good chance until I saw how high Perius was rolling on the Charisma damage (at least 3 4s on 6d4 Charisma damage...). Thanks for running the fight MindWandererB.No prob. But the damage didn't even have to be that high--you overkilled him by a couple points. You only needed 12 on 6d4, an average of 2 points per die (well, a little more, since he breezed by all his saves, and you round down). His crummy grapple attempts were a lot more critical to his loss than the high Cha damage rolls. The only way Ivangar could have won that one is if he'd been a teensy bit more careful about planning for Touchsight--if he stopped right outside its range, then charged the next round, he could have taken the first hit a round later, which easily would have been enough to win.
Zevox 05-20-06, 01:34 AM	Tactics for TWH recieved and clarified. TWH vs Dronnar will be run and up tomorrow, and Yasha vs Manzarf likely monday since I'll be at work most of sunday (presuming I have tactics by then of course *hint hint* ;) ). Zevox
bluemage55 05-20-06, 01:53 AM	Lantash (bluemage55) vs Ten Vermond (Soulord) ECL3 fight has been edited to replace the erroneous Tiny Viper with a Fiendish Small Viper. Thank you very much for your consideration in editing the fight.
Pittbull 05-20-06, 03:40 AM	@Anaconda: I' ve allready sent you two PMs that your tactic won't work, please send me a new one. @Anyone from Netherlands: If you know him and read this, please tell him to contact me, thanks.
Abyssal Stalker 05-20-06, 09:05 AM	Asran vs Sola is almost done. It still needs to add the rewards. It's here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9202079&postcount=595). Please check for apparent mistakes.
Erithmu 05-20-06, 09:20 AM	@Stalker: yea ... fine with me, I got nothing that will change the fight the SR save did me in.
Erithmu 05-20-06, 10:31 AM	Aerryl vs 8-headed Hydra is up This is why we play the game. Aerryl Nalladar (MindWandererB) vs. Unknown Monster : Dracazar Erithmu
MindWandererB 05-20-06, 12:20 PM	Aerryl vs 8-headed Hydra is up This is why we play the game. Aerryl Nalladar (MindWandererB) vs. Unknown Monster : Dracazar ErithmuOh, hell freaking YEAH! Out of the three Huge CR7 options that could have been (I don't own the 3.5 DMG, but it looks like a Bulette and a 6-headed Cryo/Pyrohydra would have been the others), that one was the worst. And honestly, without that crit, my chances were pretty shabby. Phew! Especially since I made a mistake in phrasing my tactics; I intended to cast Barkskin and Produce Flame earlier. Is it my imagination, or are Hydras way overpowered for their CR?
Zevox 05-20-06, 12:22 PM	Nice looking fight Abyssal (no, I see no need to continue either). Only things to note (none of which matter the way things turned out) are that Asran's first sunder should indeed have broken the bow: Hell's Cleaver is Adamantine, so it ignores hardness less than 20; Asran's save vs mind thrust (if it had worked) should have been at +4 (+2 wis +2 prot. good), though that wouldn't have helped with his roll; and you seem to have forgotten Asran's favored enemy bonus to listen checks and damge rolls vs Sola. Other than that the only strange thing is the maps showing the Furies standing in walls, which I presume is just an error and the actually went around them. Erithmu's right though, that SR check basically decided it. I knew that would come in handy for Asran one day :) . For rewards, I can help with that. The Furies are 4/5 of Asran's available CA, so he takes (4/5)*25 = 20% penalty and Sola gets that as a bonus; so Asran gets 1,680 xp and 2,080 gp (plus profession income), and Sola gets 840 xp and 1,039 gp (plus profession; ironic how that works out to Sola getting almost exactly 1/2 what Asran does). The EHTC gets 187 gp from Asran and the EYE gets 114 gp from Sola. Zevox
MitzaVolchenko 05-20-06, 01:01 PM	MQ for Iced's SOlan the Righteous is up and started here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9203291#post9203291)
SoulLord 05-20-06, 01:03 PM	Lantash (bluemage55) vs Ten Vermond (Soulord) ECL3 fight has been edited to replace the erroneous Tiny Viper with a Fiendish Small Viper. The original fight is still there in an SBlock above the new, edited fight. The Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9192612&postcount=589) I'm sure that the edit will satisfy one combatant more than the other, but I hope that both sides consider it fair. Edit: Incidentally I noticed that I forgot a couple of small details in the battle, such as what happened to Ten's bow and lance when he switched weapons. I'm glad that Ten didnt need them again because they would be sitting on the arena floor where he left them. Also Lantash had a Luck Domain reroll he could have used to reroll the skill check where he fell from his mount, but he needed a 19 on the die. Having no instructions to do so and unaware that that would be his only opportunity to use it, I still would have passed. Lastly horses are loud. I'm surprised that there is no Move Silently modifier for being large. Hi Traevanon one last thing if you don't mind Ten used Gather information to buy a blackmarket item listed on his prebuff section and on the title header instead of using it to earn money. so could you list on the fight results that Ten used gather information to buy the item instead of to earn money. Thanks
MitzaVolchenko 05-20-06, 01:04 PM	Any chance of the Sewer map getting added to the mapping tool since it is mandatory for hunter fights apparently?
MindWandererB 05-20-06, 01:22 PM	Any chance of the Sewer map getting added to the mapping tool since it is mandatory for hunter fights apparently?Dracazar has not put in an appearance for a week and a half now, so the answer is no. I think the Cavern is going to have to be it.
Abyssal Stalker 05-20-06, 01:43 PM	Nice looking fight Abyssal (no, I see no need to continue either). Only things to note (none of which matter the way things turned out) are that Asran's first sunder should indeed have broken the bow: Hell's Cleaver is Adamantine, so it ignores hardness less than 20; Asran's save vs mind thrust (if it had worked) should have been at +4 (+2 wis +2 prot. good), though that wouldn't have helped with his roll; and you seem to have forgotten Asran's favored enemy bonus to listen checks and damge rolls vs Sola. Other than that the only strange thing is the maps showing the Furies standing in walls, which I presume is just an error and the actually went around them. Erithmu's right though, that SR check basically decided it. I knew that would come in handy for Asran one day :) . For rewards, I can help with that. The Furies are 4/5 of Asran's available CA, so he takes (4/5)*25 = 20% penalty and Sola gets that as a bonus; so Asran gets 1,680 xp and 2,080 gp (plus profession income), and Sola gets 840 xp and 1,039 gp (plus profession; ironic how that works out to Sola getting almost exactly 1/2 what Asran does). The EHTC gets 187 gp from Asran and the EYE gets 114 gp from Sola. Zevox Sola is a phrenic wild elf. I wouldn't count that as a humanoid (human)... :P Sundering the bow took two hits because it had an +1 enchantment on it. It had therefore +10 temporary hit points in addition to its 5. I might be wrong in this one, but this is how I ruled it as I didn't find anything else about it. The first attack roll was lousy, only 12 points damage and that left the bow in 3/15. I realized that I forgot the +2 from the protection spell, but sincce it made no difference I didn't bother to fix it. I have understood that the walls are only 5ft tall, but the pillars reach the ceiling of the arena. I had the furies hovering above the walls. Thanks for calculating the rewards! They are now added to the fight.
MindWandererB 05-20-06, 03:26 PM	Sundering the bow took two hits because it had an +1 enchantment on it. It had therefore +10 temporary hit points in addition to its 5. I might be wrong in this one, but this is how I ruled it as I didn't find anything else about it. The first attack roll was lousy, only 12 points damage and that left the bow in 3/15.Here's the rule:Magic Armor, Shields, and Weapons: Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield and +10 to the item’s hit points.It doesn't say anything about treating a temporary enhancement differently from a permanent one. Although I'm not sure whether it should be "temporary HP" (like Aid) or a "temporary increase in HP" (like Bear's Endurance).
Zevox 05-20-06, 03:37 PM	@ Abyssal - Woops, I didn't notice Sola changed his race to being an Elf since our last fight. My mistake there. :embarrass I had thought the bow only gained 5 hp per enhancement, so I was wrong there, my apoligies. On the walls, those are all sets of pillars. The only 5' high things in that arena are the rocks. @ MWB & Mitza - According to Pitlords' post here, the sewer map is being used for hunter fights. I suppose you could ask Pitlords if he'd allow the use of the cavern map since its still on the map maker, but if not you're stuck there. (Fortunately Destra's tactics should be largely valid in the cavern too, so theres no need to ask for new ones from me if it gets changed.) Also, The White Hand vs Dronnar Darkjof is up. Didn't quite go as either player expected, though one will be happier about that than the other. @ Gonbow - Tactics for Yasha recieved, thanks. I'll see if I can get that one done tonight too. Zevox
King Uther 05-20-06, 04:03 PM	I have received tactics for 2 of 3 fighters. Awaiting tactics for Tivik(mattes). If they aren't to me by the time I want to run the fight, it will become a duel with the winner getting an extra bonus.
NiQil 05-20-06, 04:37 PM	Sola is a phrenic wild elf. I wouldn't count that as a humanoid (human)... :P Wanted to jump in here on this one point...to my knowledge, having the phrenic template on an elf does not make that character something than an elf any longer unless the template specifically says that the creatures type is changed. Size and Type: The creature’s type does not change, unless it is an animal (in which case it becomes a magical beast [augmented animal]). It gains the psionic subtype. So in this case all favored enemy bonuses vs. elves would apply normally. But otherwise Abyssal is correct...favored enemy vs humans would not apply. Edit: This is what I get for not reading all of the posts ahead of mine before posting...apparantly Zevox realized the same thing LOL
Zevox 05-20-06, 04:40 PM	Edit: Nevermind, NiQil got it :D .
Abyssal Stalker 05-20-06, 05:03 PM	Sliver vs Gaston is done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9204629&postcount=598). Check for apparent! @Zevox: I have always thought that those square things are the rocks and the round ones are the pillars, reaching the ceiling. Could someone confirm which is correct? Obstacles: There are two kinds of obstacles: pillars reach the ceiling, rocks are only 5 ft high (these dimensions will suffice to meld into stone a creature of any size). Both have AC 3, a hardness of 8, and 120 hitpoints.
Zevox 05-20-06, 05:08 PM	@Zevox: I have always thought that those square things are the rocks and the round ones are the pillars, reaching the ceiling. Could someone confirm which is correct? I've always been under the impression that the gray ones were rocks and the black pillars. The rocks being round due to being smaller and not taking up thier entire space. Zevox
King Uther 05-20-06, 05:09 PM	Is anyone interested in making a group of characters with me? I am crafting an Eastern kingdom with a Japanese flair and want to make a team of Samurai. Mostly to create legends of famous warriors from there. I have a load of good samurai pictures for it as well.
MindWandererB 05-20-06, 05:23 PM	The pillars use the same "tile" as the walls of the arena. Regardless of where those tiles are, they reach the ceiling. The word "pillar" is actually quite misleading, because there is no gap between them. @KU: I hope you're not abandoning the idea of campaigns in the west! I've got a character all ready for a new campaign. However, I could create an Oriental character for such a campaign. Are you looking for all samurai (primarily warriors), or other classes, as well? Or is your conception of "samurai" purely a social status label, and wizards, etc. can be samurai? Please elaborate. I can go with whatever, and I'm quite happy to create a character last to fill empty niches.
SauroGrenom 05-20-06, 06:39 PM	Erithmu, Thanks for looking at the fight again. Inhindsight I should have had a condition for if the Griffon was killed. Kracknol could have waited till the slipper expired (33 rounds) and then performed his typical charge attack after Cyra could no longer avoid him. The healing wand would have allowed him to survive however long it took. Anyway, better tactics next time. And thanks for the added effort.
TheMagister 05-20-06, 07:03 PM	Erithmu's right though, that SR check basically decided it. I knew that would come in handy for Asran one day :) . Zevox Actually, it ain't over yet, devil-boy. =) Check Abyssal's die roll for Asran's SR. He accidentally rolled a 1d10+5. I'd say Sola's day isn't quite over, yet. Here's hopin'! TM - rooting for the underdog ever since Sdentch came onto the scene.
Erithmu 05-20-06, 07:16 PM	Actually, it ain't over yet, devil-boy. =) Check Abyssal's die roll for Asran's SR. He accidentally rolled a 1d10+5. I'd say Sola's day isn't quite over, yet. Here's hopin'! TM - rooting for the underdog ever since Sdentch came onto the scene. *blinks* interesting ..... umm TM ... Thank you ... @Stalker: what he said.
MindWandererB 05-20-06, 07:31 PM	...Kracknol could have waited till the slipper expired (33 rounds)....I made this mistake recently myself: since the slippers are useable an unlimited number of times per day, they are not subject to the 1/3 rule. Read the 1/3 rule carefully: only use/day (and use/week) items are restricted.
TheMagister 05-20-06, 07:47 PM	@Zevox - well, I can't say I'm surprised. I accept the fight as it is run, as any gripe I had would be silly in the face of all those hit points and that last high roll. However, I have to disagree with you on the true strike/sneak attack relationship. These are the foundations of my opinions: The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target. An insight bonus improves performance of a given activity by granting the character an almost precognitive knowledge of what might occur. An insight bonus makes a character better at what he's doing because he has an almost precognitive knowledge of factors pertinent to the activity, as with the true strike spell. Knowledge of something in advance of its occurrence, especially by extrasensory perception; clairvoyance. It seems obvious to me that a +20 (the "practically impossible to fail" modifier) insight bonus on an attack roll grants the character future knowledge of his target's whereabouts and weaknesses. This allows the true striker to find chinks in armor, bypass magical protections, and ignore concealment...even total concealment (you just have to aim at the right square!). It seems silly that a true striker would know EXACTLY where the opponent is, be UNABLE to miss, and still be deemed "imprecise". Edit - To clarify: as a DM and player, I feel that a blinded rogue could UMD a wand of true strike and strike at an opponent well enough to sneak attack that opponent, provided all other conditions of the sneak attack are met (defender denied dex, or is flanked, or whatever). The rogue has INSIGHT...mental "eyes" as it were, into the future and just KNOWS where to place his weapon. I disagree with your interpretation, but will abide by it in this circumstance because I respect both you and the office of the pitlord. =) Secondly... I thought we (us here at the CoCo) had decided that dissolving weapon couldn't be used on ranged weapons since "the acid dissipates after the weapon leaves your hand" (paraphrased from the power description). Just checking here. TM
Zevox 05-20-06, 08:10 PM	Well, I must still disagree with you on the True Strike issue. To me, the key seems to be that you cannot sneak attack a concealed opponent due to being unable to pick out where thier precise weak point is, regardless of how much magical insight you have as to where exactly they will be positioned in order to hit them in general (which True Strike grants by permitting you to ignore miss chances for concealment). To put that another way, where you believe True Strike "grants the character future knowledge of his target's whereabouts and weaknesses", I believe it grants only knowledge about the target's future wherabouts - the weaknesses still need to be discerned by the character (such as with a sneak attack or critical hit). Fortunately its not key here, so we can just agree to disagree at the moment, eh? I thought we (us here at the CoCo) had decided that dissolving weapon couldn't be used on ranged weapons since "the acid dissipates after the weapon leaves your hand" (paraphrased from the power description). Just checking here. TM I don't recall such, but being as how your resistance cancelled out all of the acid on the bow shot (low rolls on that part of the damage, it only totalled 9), that doesn't particularly matter either. Out of curiousity though, anyone else know anything about that? @ Abyssal - Ow, yeah, that could be a problem point. Heres hoping for a real low roll or at least low damage rolls. *crosses fingers* Zevox
NiQil 05-20-06, 08:12 PM	@Zevox - well, I can't say I'm surprised. I accept the fight as it is run, as any gripe I had would be silly in the face of all those hit points and that last high roll. However, I have to disagree with you on the true strike/sneak attack relationship. These are the foundations of my opinions: It seems obvious to me that a +20 (the "practically impossible to fail" modifier) insight bonus on an attack roll grants the character future knowledge of his target's whereabouts and weaknesses. This allows the true striker to find chinks in armor, bypass magical protections, and ignore concealment...even total concealment (you just have to aim at the right square!). It seems silly that a true striker would know EXACTLY where the opponent is, be UNABLE to miss, and still be deemed "imprecise". Edit - To clarify: as a DM and player, I feel that a blinded rogue could UMD a wand of true strike and strike at an opponent well enough to sneak attack that opponent, provided all other conditions of the sneak attack are met (defender denied dex, or is flanked, or whatever). The rogue has INSIGHT...mental "eyes" as it were, into the future and just KNOWS where to place his weapon. I disagree with your interpretation, but will abide by it in this circumstance because I respect both you and the office of the pitlord. =) Secondly... I thought we (us here at the CoCo) had decided that dissolving weapon couldn't be used on ranged weapons since "the acid dissipates after the weapon leaves your hand" (paraphrased from the power description). Just checking here. TM With regard to the true strike/sneak attack issue....sneak attack is very specific as to when it applies. You failed to quote the most important part of sneak attack... Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty. A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. Emphasis mine. True Strike does not deny someone their Dex bonus to AC, nor does it cause someone to be flanked, therefore it cannot allow a sneak attack bonus in and of itself. Sneak attack is very specific about when it does and does not apply. As to the dissolving weapon question....dissolving weapon only applies to held weapons, as per the spell description. It operates just as Dissolving Touch, which only applies to natural weapons and is triggered by a melee touch attack, except that you put it on a weapon instead of a natural weapon. Since you cannot make melee attacks with a ranged weapon (barring using the ranged weapon as an improvised melee weapon), dissolving weapon cannot be use in conjunction with a ranged attack. Edit: When I update the Prison, I will add the dissolving weapon clarification to it.
TheMagister 05-20-06, 08:27 PM	[color=navy]With regard to the true strike/sneak attack issue....sneak attack is very specific as to when it applies. You failed to quote the most important part of sneak attack... Emphasis mine. True Strike does not deny someone their Dex bonus to AC, nor does it cause someone to be flanked, therefore it cannot allow a sneak attack bonus in and of itself. Sneak attack is very specific about when it does and does not apply. Silly Niqil. Sneak attacks are for invisible attackers! =) TWH was invisible at the time of the sneak attack, so that part of the argument wasn't relevent. @Zevox - if the miss chance provided by the concealment is negated by true strike, doesn't it stand to reason that the concealment is no longer a factor in the attack? It's like (gasp) it wasn't there! {friendly sarcasm here} This is a straight DM call, influenced by differing styles. I can definitely agree to disagree. =) Thanks for hearing me out! TM
NiQil 05-20-06, 08:40 PM	Silly Niqil. Sneak attacks are for invisible attackers! =) TWH was invisible at the time of the sneak attack, so that part of the argument wasn't relevent. @Zevox - if the miss chance provided by the concealment is negated by true strike, doesn't it stand to reason that the concealment is no longer a factor in the attack? It's like (gasp) it wasn't there! {friendly sarcasm here} This is a straight DM call, influenced by differing styles. I can definitely agree to disagree. =) Thanks for hearing me out! TM Fair enough...but further down in the same quote, sneak attack also indicates that it does not apply against anyone that has concealment. True Strike does not state that it makes the concealment go away...it just states that you don't have to worry about the miss chance concealment provides. The concealment is still there...which means sneak attack does not apply. I can certainly see your side of the discussion....I just don't think it's correct.
TheMagister 05-20-06, 09:12 PM	As you say, fair enough. =) In the CoCo, True Strike does not defeat concealment of any kind. Vs. magical concealment, it is necessary to have access to True Seeing to render such protections irrelevant. TM
MindWandererB 05-20-06, 10:08 PM	NiQil: I beg you to hold off on the Dissolving Weapon ruling. The text says "one held weapon," it does not say "one melee weapon." It does not say that the effect ends as soon as the weapon is no longer held, any more than Magic Weapon ends when the weapon is no longer touched. And you can certainly hold a bow. I also agree with Zevox regarding True Strike. You cannot sneak attack a target with concealment. True Strike does not say "you are not affected by any concealment the target might have," it only says "you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target." Only the miss chance part of the concealment is negated; other benefits of concealment, like the protection from sneak attack, remain. The spell description provides a very specific benefit, and allowing sneak attacks isn't it. Aaand, I just read NiQil's argument more carefully, and he pretty much said exactly what I did. Yeah.
TheMagister 05-20-06, 10:16 PM	Cross posted in the Tavern. Help me out, MWB. What was the ruling in the Council regarding making characters that will be in violation of the Expendable Cap legal? Do we simply refund the items in for full cash value? (I hope this is the case) MWB answered in the Tavern. Thanks MWB!! TM
MindWandererB 05-20-06, 10:20 PM	Found it! It wasn't in the Council but in the Fights of the Week for April 26 thread.
TheMagister 05-20-06, 10:34 PM	Yep, that was it! Thanks! I remembered reading that post as well, but couldn't remember where it was. You're a treasure, as it has been noted around here more than once. Too bad I'm already married. And a father of two beautiful children. And worse, I'm a rules lawyer! :gah: TM
Zevox 05-20-06, 10:42 PM	Yasha Tankou vs Manzarf the Loathsome, my last fight this week, is up. A shoot out between two characters who would rather have gone to melee but didn't want to leave thier cover that was decided by pure luck. Zevox
DSugui 05-20-06, 11:26 PM	@Zevox: thanks for the run. I have no complaints about it. I do recall a discussion about the true strike/concealment thing, but I don't remember how it ended. And about dissolving weapon on ranged weapons, I didn't find anything that would prohibit that. I that's a rule, I would like it pointed to me for future reference (as player and pitlord). @KU: I am interested in your Eastern scenario. Count me in.
Traevanon 05-20-06, 11:39 PM	Soulord, No problem on the modification to the results. I've been up and busy all day though so I'll get it tomorrow morning.
Gonbow 05-20-06, 11:48 PM	@Zevox Thanks for running the fight... I was planning to pick up a wand of cure light wounds. It would have made the fight more tedious, but I probably would have won. And yeah... the dice were definitely against me there. Two 20s for his opening salvos? =/ Ah well.
MindWandererB 05-21-06, 12:15 AM	You're a treasure, as it has been noted around here more than once. Too bad I'm already married. And a father of two beautiful children. And worse, I'm a rules lawyer! Err... yeah. And if I weren't married myself as well, that would still only be legal in the state of Massachusetts. But, um, thanks for the thought? I think?
TheMagister 05-21-06, 12:44 AM	Err... yeah. And if I weren't married myself as well, that would still only be legal in the state of Massachusetts. But, um, thanks for the thought? I think? Aw, I was just trying to be nice and say something other than "thank you". =) But, since you seem to prefer it: Thanks!
NiQil 05-21-06, 12:53 AM	NiQil: I beg you to hold off on the Dissolving Weapon ruling. The text says "one held weapon," it does not say "one melee weapon." It does not say that the effect ends as soon as the weapon is no longer held, any more than Magic Weapon ends when the weapon is no longer touched. And you can certainly hold a bow. No, it does not say that it ends when the weapon is no longer touched...but it *does say that it operates as Dissolving Touch, and Dissolving Touch requires a melee touch attack to discharge the power. I don"t believe that you can make a melee touch attack with an ammunition weapon (bow, sling or xbow). I think that, though poorly worded, Dissolving Weapon requires a melee attack with the held weapon to discharge, which would correlate to the difference between a natural weapon (Dissolving Touch) and a melee weapon (Dissolving Weapon). Again....I don't see the ability to make a melee attack with an ammunition weapon. And nowhere in either power does it mention ranged weaponry. If it were like a magical effect that would allow the power to transfer to ammunition from an ammunition weapon, it would say so, don't you think? All that being said, that does not prohibit Dissolving Weapon from being used on javelins and shuriken and other thrown weapons...just ammunition weapons.
Erithmu 05-21-06, 12:59 AM	No, it does not say that it ends when the weapon is no longer touched...but it *does say that it operates as Dissolving Touch, and Dissolving Touch requires a melee touch attack to discharge the power. I don"t believe that you can make a melee touch attack with an ammunition weapon (bow, sling or xbow). I think that, though poorly worded, Dissolving Weapon requires a melee attack with the held weapon to discharge, which would correlate to the difference between a natural weapon (Dissolving Touch) and a melee weapon (Dissolving Weapon). Again....I don't see the ability to make a melee attack with an ammunition weapon. And nowhere in either power does it mention ranged weaponry. If it were like a magical effect that would allow the power to transfer to ammunition from an ammunition weapon, it would say so, don't you think? All that being said, that does not prohibit Dissolving Weapon from being used on javelins and shuriken and other thrown weapons...just ammunition weapons. One could put it on an arrow, since you can use them in melee (one takes a -4 for using it as an improvised weapon. Of course now I might have to make a disolving weapon wooden chair wielder just to see what that would look like.) I agree with not putting it on the ammunition weapon(bow) itself, but putting it on the ammunition would be a different thing. Thoughts?
NiQil 05-21-06, 01:15 AM	One could put it on an arrow, since you can use them in melee (one takes a -4 for using it as an improvised weapon. Of course now I might have to make a disolving weapon wooden chair wielder just to see what that would look like.) I agree with not putting it on the ammunition weapon(bow) itself, but putting it on the ammunition would be a different thing. Thoughts? As I stated in my original comment...all of my points are not including the option to use the item in question as an improvised weapon. In short, to use Dissolving Weapon, a melee attack is required. If someone wants to put it on a bow and walk around hitting people over the head with their bow just to use the power, by all means, they are more than welcome. But a melee attack is required to discharge the power, which is why I say that it can not be used in conjunction with an ammunition weapon making a ranged attack. If you were to manifest the power onto an arrow and then fire it, it simply would not trigger, since no melee attack was made. (And yes, I am sure someone is going to chime in with how illogical that is and how the type of attack made shouldn't matter....but to borrow the phrase Jindl coined 'round these parts..."Logic has no place in D&D.") @Erithmu: Think about a pyrokinetisist with dissolving weapon on his fire lash...and then maybe psionic weapon and greater psionic weapon and....nevermind...I'll save that idea to build for myself :P
Ravashack 05-21-06, 01:31 AM	One could put it on an arrow, since you can use them in melee (one takes a -4 for using it as an improvised weapon. Of course now I might have to make a disolving weapon wooden chair wielder just to see what that would look like.) I agree with not putting it on the ammunition weapon(bow) itself, but putting it on the ammunition would be a different thing. Thoughts? The problem with that train of thought is that once you fire the ammunition (or load in case of crossbows), it's no longer in your hand and the acid immediately goes away.
Abyssal Stalker 05-21-06, 04:01 AM	Yasha Tankou vs Manzarf the Loathsome, my last fight this week, is up. A shoot out between two characters who would rather have gone to melee but didn't want to leave thier cover that was decided by pure luck. Zevox Thanks for running! I didn't bother to give instructions to approach to melee since Yasha had to make the decision with her greater speed. Some lucky rolls on my side too. Manzarf? I mean, really. What a name. :tiphat: About the other fight, I'll have to return to it. I sometimes seem to mess with the dice.
Zevox 05-21-06, 04:08 AM	About the other fight, I'll have to return to it. I sometimes seem to mess with the dice. *shrugs* Actually, looking at it, it seems it probably won't make a difference. If you keep the current damage roll Asran survives even if the SR doesn't stop it, which would just mean he needs to heal before finishing things. Which means it would come down to if Sola can hit his AC 26 accurately enough to counteract his healing before he closes to finish sundering. Go ahead and redo as necessary of course, I'm just pointing out that perhaps Erithmu shouldn't get his hopes up. ;) Zevox
Traevanon 05-21-06, 07:13 AM	Soullord: Results edited to reflect Gather Information purchase. Hmm... Up until this point I thought that wand charges were basically the same cost as scrolls. I guess there is a wand discount.
SauroGrenom 05-21-06, 11:31 AM	As to the dissolving weapon question....dissolving weapon only applies to held weapons, as per the spell description. It operates just as Dissolving Touch, which only applies to natural weapons and is triggered by a melee touch attack, except that you put it on a weapon instead of a natural weapon. Since you cannot make melee attacks with a ranged weapon (barring using the ranged weapon as an improvised melee weapon), dissolving weapon cannot be use in conjunction with a ranged attack. Does this then prohibit using Dissolving Weapon on a thrown weapon? If so that could have implications for Kracknol vs Cyra.
waywreth 05-21-06, 12:08 PM	Sliver vs Gaston is done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9204629&postcount=598). Check for apparent! I hate Pixies.
MindWandererB 05-21-06, 01:19 PM	No, it does not say that it ends when the weapon is no longer touched...but it *does say that it operates as Dissolving Touch, and Dissolving Touch requires a melee touch attack to discharge the power.Yes, but Dissolving Weapon is different from Dissolving Touch in that it does not require a melee touch attack, but just an attack with the weapon. Dissolving Touch: "You deal 4d6 points of acid damage to any creature or object you touch with your successsful melee touch attack." Dissolving Weapon: "As dissolving touch, except your weapon is charged with acid until you make a successful attack." That's the only difference between the two powers. You're adding the word "melee" where it doesn't exist. You might as well add the word "touch" as well, and prohibit using the weapon to deal its base damage in addition to the acid damage. If it were like a magical effect that would allow the power to transfer to ammunition from an ammunition weapon, it would say so, don't you think?No, I don't. Magic Weapon, Weapon of Energy, and others don't say anything about it, but they work juts fine on ranged weapons.
Abyssal Stalker 05-21-06, 01:53 PM	*shrugs* Actually, looking at it, it seems it probably won't make a difference. If you keep the current damage roll Asran survives even if the SR doesn't stop it, which would just mean he needs to heal before finishing things. Which means it would come down to if Sola can hit his AC 26 accurately enough to counteract his healing before he closes to finish sundering. Go ahead and redo as necessary of course, I'm just pointing out that perhaps Erithmu shouldn't get his hopes up. ;) Zevox Edited. I deleted the original rolls after the Mind Thrust just to keep things clear. I didn't change the way I've handled the rocks/pillars, since my ruling has been the same from the beginning. I don't seriously believe that changing them would affect the fight, only the positioning. From this point on I now know how the map should be read and will use things correctly.
Erithmu 05-21-06, 02:03 PM	blech ... dice roller no like me .... nothing above like a 12 on those attacks ...
NiQil 05-21-06, 02:05 PM	Does this then prohibit using Dissolving Weapon on a thrown weapon? If so that could have implications for Kracknol vs Cyra. No...thrown weapons are fine, as there is no issue with the transference of the power from a launcher to it's ammunition, which is the crux of the discussion. @ MindWanderer: Find me a quote that states that any of those spells/powers transfers their bonuses to ammunition when fired from a launcher-type weapon (bow, sling, xbow), and I will review it. To my knowledge, none of the spells/powers you have mentioned so far transfer their bonuses to ammunition. Magic Weapon even has a Greater version of itself that specifically allows you to apply it to ammunition. Would seem somewhat redundant to have that if Magic Weapon or Greater Magic weapon already transferred the bonus.
MitzaVolchenko 05-21-06, 02:19 PM	I hate Pixies. Yeah, but you love me, right? Oh come on! I could use somebody to love me...please? No objection to the fight. I knew I'd either suceed in keeping him from blocking the animals or kill him at extreme range with magic missile. There was never really any suggestion of doing something dumb like walking up to shake hands. Now if my memory loss arrows hadn't been nerfed...ah well what might have been!
King Uther 05-21-06, 02:51 PM	Tivik vs Koan vs Alana (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9210125&postcount=600) is up. One surrendered, and the other two duke it out old school.
bluemage55 05-21-06, 05:10 PM	@ MindWanderer: Find me a quote that states that any of those spells/powers transfers their bonuses to ammunition when fired from a launcher-type weapon (bow, sling, xbow), and I will review it. To my knowledge, none of the spells/powers you have mentioned so far transfer their bonuses to ammunition. Magic Weapon even has a Greater version of itself that specifically allows you to apply it to ammunition. Would seem somewhat redundant to have that if Magic Weapon or Greater Magic weapon already transferred the bonus. Magic Weapon grants a simple enhancment bonus . This will affect ammunition fired from a ranged weapon the way normal magical ranged weapons do. The purpose of the Greater Magic Weapon ammunition entry is so that a spellcaster can divide up that ammunition, so rather than having a single archer with magical arrows, an entire group can benefit with magical arrows. Even if you argue that weapon of energy does not explicitly state that it will transfer by the RAW, the intent is clearly to duplicate a magical weapon that has been enhanced with flaming/frost/shock special abilities, which would transfer the effect to ammunition.
Traevanon 05-21-06, 09:57 PM	Um... anyone heard from Stonetree?
Zevox 05-21-06, 11:01 PM	@ Abyssal - Looks good to me, though I'm not sure why that charge was an attack on Sola rather than a sunder. *shrugs* Doesn't make any difference, since sundering could only make it easier for Asran to win. Thanks a lot for running and re-running the fight! :) Um... anyone heard from Stonetree? Hes been missing since the week before the boards were frozen for the faulty update attempt. Zevox
MitzaVolchenko 05-22-06, 01:26 AM	@My fighters I am a bit swamped at work tonight (as evidenced by the grand total of four and a half rounds done in one fight). I will probably crash with a nice tumbler of whiskey when I get home. Fights will have to wait until tomorrow morning/afternoon and then again tomorrow late night/early Tuesday morning. Sticka fork in me, I'm done ;) On another note are we going to have the sewer map in the mapping tool any time in the next 24 hours or so? If not, do I really have to use it? If so, will it shock anyone if I am extremely late with that hunter fight? That will mean doing that fight with manual maps, and I am likely to do that at work on a day when I do not have net access...
graymocker 05-22-06, 02:39 AM	I finished the Biko vs. Undertaker fight, here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9182921&postcount=587). All I can say is I have a newfound respect for the PLs that make this all possible. This was a lot of work to do, and it wasn't even a particularly complex fight. I might PL more fights in the future, but only situationally and definitely nothing with more than 2 combatants. Anyways, please review the fight. As I'm new to this whole thing there might be (read:probably are) things I have done wrong. Thanks.
Vathelokai 05-22-06, 06:53 AM	Virgo vs. Telveran is up and finished. I know I made a number of mistakes. If either combatant wants them fixed, I can do so tommorrow. It is really up to them, and I don't see it changing the fight much.
SauroGrenom 05-22-06, 10:22 AM	The Magister and King Uther, I wanted to have your fight done by last night. Sorry, I couldn't get it done by the weekend. Don't worry, I've started it and I should be able to finish it tonight. I just want to let you know where things are at. Sauro (CoCo Elde)
Sunwolf 05-22-06, 10:44 AM	@Vathelokai Thanks for running the fight. A few comments: :) I believe that the smite damage should be doubled on the charge too. Since it is not extra dice damage like SA or shocking or some such. (+4 pts damage) Halbard damage is 1d10+9 (used 2 handed) not 1d10+8 (+1+1= +2 damage) Lastly not sure if Divine might was added on Telveran's first 3 full attack sequences. (+4 damage on each hit in rounds 9,10,12 but not in 14 == +8,+4,+4 =+16 -4 in round 14) bite damage as a secondary attack is 1d4+3 -- honestly attacking twice with spikes is better for Telveran in damage done respect (1d6+6 each attack)-- however spikes + bite is fine as is if you don't want to make that change) -3damage in rnd 9 and rnd 12 = -6 damage if using bite. If you have 1 or more power points available, you can meditate to attempt to become psionically focused. The DC to become psionically focused is 20. Meditating is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. When you are psionically focused, you can expend your focus on any single Concentration check you make thereafter. When you expend your focus in this manner, your Concentration check is treated as if you rolled a 15. It’s like taking 10, except that the number you add to your Concentration modifier is 15. You can also expend your focus to gain the benefit of a psionic feat—many psionic feats are activated in this way. Virgo's attempt to regain focus while in the grapple should have drawn an AOO from both Telveran and Rascal -- possibly making the concentration check harder. Lastly, Virgo's grapple damage is 1d8+7 -- I see you were adjusting damage for the Telveran's DR as you listed it in the fight. So by my count: rnd 8: +4+2 =>V: hp -6 rnd 9: -3+8 => V: hp -11 rnd 10: +4 => V: hp -15 rnd 11: V: hp -15 rnd 12: -3+4 => V: hp -16 rnd 13: V: hp -16 rnd 14: -4 => V: hp -12 ==> Virgo staggered and passes out with this attack. Rascal does not become feral until Telveran is dead not just unconscious. Meaning that Rascal can kill Virgo w/ blood drain via CDG before Telveran dies from bleeding out. *However* if you do make these corrections please add in the damage from bite of the wolf for Virgo (he needs to use bite of the wolf instead of his normal grapple damage). Which may just keep the fight as is. Edits for Spot and Listen checks for Rascal is not needed in my opinion. Very close fight over all. Congrats to King Uther on the fight.
Abyssal Stalker 05-22-06, 10:51 AM	I finished the Biko vs. Undertaker fight, here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9182921&postcount=587). All I can say is I have a newfound respect for the PLs that make this all possible. This was a lot of work to do, and it wasn't even a particularly complex fight. I might PL more fights in the future, but only situationally and definitely nothing with more than 2 combatants. Anyways, please review the fight. As I'm new to this whole thing there might be (read:probably are) things I have done wrong. Thanks. First of all, thanks for running the fight! I'm going to point out some things that you should consider, but don't let them bring you down. On the whole I think you did quite a good job as a first-timer. Round 6: You should first let Nail do the delivering and after that cast the Scorching Ray. Otherwise the spell is wasted (and you realize that I wouldn't wish for that). Round 7: The touch attack to deliver the spell fails, but it doesn't waste the spell. The touch attack can be tried again and again, until it is discharged by the caster or delivered. Round 9 and furthermore: -At this point things get strange. I don't see any listen/move silently rolls and still Biko succeeds in pinpointing Taker. This seems like a clear mistake to me. -My other concern from this point on is that you haven't used any 5ft-steps. It is true that I didn't mention them in my tactics, but it's a common policy in CoCo that you don't usually need to be that accurate in tactics. It is clear that a small step makes it much harder for Biko to pinpoint taker, and in normal conditions he would probably take it. The same goes for many things: 5ft-steps should be used if a character can avoid an AoO, it's OK to cast defensively even if not mentioned in tactics, and so on. It is awfully difficult to write this detailed tactics and because of this, Pitlords are encouraged to not play the characters as idiots. You don't need to make up a better tactic even if there was a better one, but you really should take these small things into consideration. Round 12 and furthermore: It is perfectly OK to use this method when things turn like this. Just remember that Undertaker has the possibility of taking 5ft-steps and thus making himself a harder target. Like I said, you did a good job. I'd still wish that you'd go through the fight once more and check if these things would have a significant effect on the fight. Keep up the good work, I hope you continue Pitlording. It's the one thing that keeps the CoCo running and there aren't too many of us. The skills needed develope in the job, but no one is perfect. Just check out what stupid mistakes I made in the Asran vs Sola -fight!
Zevox 05-22-06, 01:15 PM	On another note are we going to have the sewer map in the mapping tool any time in the next 24 hours or so? Considering that Dracazar is still missing, I wouldn't bet on it. If not, do I really have to use it? If so, will it shock anyone if I am extremely late with that hunter fight? That will mean doing that fight with manual maps, and I am likely to do that at work on a day when I do not have net access... *shrugs* As one of the players of said Hunter fight, I wouldn't have a problem if you used a different map. My tactics shouldn't be harmed by it much. I'd suggest PMing Pitlords with that question before doing so though, to make sure its okay, since hes the one that decided Hunter fights would use the Sewer map until random maps were put into the pairingsmaker. Zevox
DSugui 05-22-06, 01:22 PM	Tueor (MysticMonk2005) vs. Zwei und'Vierzig (MitzaVolchenko) is up HERE Pretty straightforward fight. Please check for errors.
Papapeperoni 05-22-06, 02:10 PM	@Mitza: PM'ed my tactics for Kendal. Hope you'll run the fight. --Papapeperoni, God of Pizza's
MitzaVolchenko 05-22-06, 03:06 PM	@Papapeperoni Grrr...I just posted the surrender after the last hour and ahlf of fighting with the boards to post anything in the Battles thread. If I have time (not likely, but possible) I will run the fight when I get home from work. @Rith & Wanderer I have been trying to edit the conclusion in on your fight for the last hour. I haven't checked back yet to see if it took. I'll check it and make sure it is there before I leave for work. @My MQ'ers. I'll have both of you posted after work. @My Hunters, it is going to be late. No help for it as I have to work with a manual map. I am sorry. If I had a choice, I would toss you onto the old hunter map and get that done before I leave for work.
TheMagister 05-22-06, 07:19 PM	The Magister and King Uther, I wanted to have your fight done by last night. Sorry, I couldn't get it done by the weekend. Don't worry, I've started it and I should be able to finish it tonight. I just want to let you know where things are at. Sauro (CoCo Elde) Thanks for keeping us updated, Sauro! Man, I wish more pitlords would adopt this courteous and extremely emotion-calming practice. It helps just knowing that you haven't been forgotten, or that your fight didn't just slip through the cracks in a busy life (and even if it did, the pitlord still wants to finish it and has plans to that effect!). ... not that I expect it'll take you long to complete. Sdentch is doomed hardcore. 'Preciate it, Elde! TM
SoulLord 05-22-06, 07:25 PM	So what Fights are in danger of being held over?
graymocker 05-22-06, 07:36 PM	First of all, thanks for running the fight! I'm going to point out some things that you should consider, but don't let them bring you down. On the whole I think you did quite a good job as a first-timer. Round 6: You should first let Nail do the delivering and after that cast the Scorching Ray. Otherwise the spell is wasted (and you realize that I wouldn't wish for that). Round 7: The touch attack to deliver the spell fails, but it doesn't waste the spell. The touch attack can be tried again and again, until it is discharged by the caster or delivered. Ok, good to know. I'm not going to edit this because Biko didn't hit you again until after round 11, at which point he was fatigued anyway from his rage expiring. Round 9 and furthermore: -At this point things get strange. I don't see any listen/move silently rolls and still Biko succeeds in pinpointing Taker. This seems like a clear mistake to me. -My other concern from this point on is that you haven't used any 5ft-steps. It is true that I didn't mention them in my tactics, but it's a common policy in CoCo that you don't usually need to be that accurate in tactics. It is clear that a small step makes it much harder for Biko to pinpoint taker, and in normal conditions he would probably take it. The same goes for many things: 5ft-steps should be used if a character can avoid an AoO, it's OK to cast defensively even if not mentioned in tactics, and so on. It is awfully difficult to write this detailed tactics and because of this, Pitlords are encouraged to not play the characters as idiots. You don't need to make up a better tactic even if there was a better one, but you really should take these small things into consideration. I didn't roll listen/MS because you were shooting and reloading your crossbow every turn, which caused enough noise for him to pinpoint you. I didn't have you take 5' steps because honestly, I didn't think of it. =/. Now that you point it out, it seems like a pretty self-evident thing to do that might significantly impact the outcome of the match. I'll fix this when I get a chance, I'm busy today but I will try to edit the fight during the day tomorrow. Also, a preemptive question - MS'ing 5-steps counts as full movement, not half movement for the purposes of MS penalties, correct? (Seems like it should...)
Traevanon 05-22-06, 08:36 PM	Stonetree hasnt been heard from, so my fight (Khabil Barukh) might be one of those held over.
TheMagister 05-22-06, 08:44 PM	Ok, good to know. I'm not going to edit this because Biko didn't hit you again until after round 11, at which point he was fatigued anyway from his rage expiring. I didn't roll listen/MS because you were shooting and reloading your crossbow every turn, which caused enough noise for him to pinpoint you. I didn't have you take 5' steps because honestly, I didn't think of it. =/. Now that you point it out, it seems like a pretty self-evident thing to do that might significantly impact the outcome of the match. I'll fix this when I get a chance, I'm busy today but I will try to edit the fight during the day tomorrow. Also, a preemptive question - MS'ing 5-steps counts as full movement, not half movement for the purposes of MS penalties, correct? (Seems like it should...) :twocents: warning! In my estimation, the 5' steps wouldn't really matter, as all it would generate is one MORE chance for a reactive listen check by Biko, who is already pinpointing his adversary because of the noise made by the reloading/firing of the crossbow (something that I totally agree with). Really, the 5' steps could only possibly matter if the crossbowman were 5' stepping directly away from his adversary in order to increase the DC of the listen check (something that Abyssal may have meant but didn't say right out). Whether or not 5' stepping away from a blinded character to increase the DC of a listen check qualifies as "playing a character smart or stupid" is up to the pitlord. Again, this is just my two cents, and is to be taken extremely lightly. =) On a related note, I'd like to agree with Abyssal and congratulate you on a fight well run. Really outstanding for a first-timer! TM
Macbrea 05-22-06, 09:50 PM	@my fighters: I will be working on your fight tommorrow after I get back from seeing if the dentist can pull one of my teeth for me. At the moment, I cannot form much of a clear thought to run the rules correctly.
SoulLord 05-22-06, 10:14 PM	Missing fights. if you have already posted your fight sorry, but I'm thinking of taking 1 fight and run it before the deadline. lvl 3 Khabil Barukh (Traevanon) vs. Anubis (AnubisR) : Stonetree Raw (Anaconda) vs. Mattes Gearos (mattes) : Stonetree Micah Ashald (DarthVegan) vs. Izumi (Macbrea) : Iced lvl 4 Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs. Riana Dreambinder (Ariel23) : Huan Featylec Elendi (Zevox) vs. Seændithas (Sindorin) : Huan Enoch (Salrantol) => Dameon (Huan) => Destra (Zevox) => Valek (DSugui) : MitzaVolchenko [Hunter] lvl 5 Neidr Bresent (bgt) vs. Jonathon Raven (Abyssal Stalker) : DSugui lvl 9 Saffron Brass (Vathelokai) vs. Nell Leonne (Huan) : Macbrea (already said working on it) Balbanes (King Uther) vs. Sdentch (TheMagister) : SauroGrenom So for starters any pitlord feels he/she won't be able to finish?
Traevanon 05-22-06, 10:20 PM	I'll take another fight as well (thinking the Raw vs Mattes fight). Sending a PM to Pitlords to that effect.
Iced 05-22-06, 10:52 PM	:fight!: Micah (DarthVegan) vs Izumi (Macbrea) [EL3] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9221656&postcount=605) is up and completed. A four-round thriller.
graymocker 05-22-06, 11:28 PM	:twocents: warning! In my estimation, the 5' steps wouldn't really matter, as all it would generate is one MORE chance for a reactive listen check by Biko, who is already pinpointing his adversary because of the noise made by the reloading/firing of the crossbow (something that I totally agree with). Really, the 5' steps could only possibly matter if the crossbowman were 5' stepping directly away from his adversary in order to increase the DC of the listen check (something that Abyssal may have meant but didn't say right out). Well, I was thinking it might go something like this: 1. Undertaker shoots and reloads xbow at square x, y. Biko pinpoints the location of Undertaker at x,y from the sound. 2. Undertaker 5's to square x+1, y. Biko has to make a listen check to figure out which square Undertaker is now in, otherwise he'll randomly shoot somewhere in the area, rolling 1d8 to determine the square. I imagine that's what Abyssal had in mind, and it is a pretty obvious strategy now that it's pointed out to me. What I'll do is I'll look at the rounds where Biko managed to land a hit, and I'll roll the MS/listen checks to see if he is able to pinpoint Undertaker, then add additional rounds of combat as necessary.
MindWandererB 05-22-06, 11:54 PM	You missed one fight in that list: Meinrad (Salrantol) vs. KazzzAHM (Pittbull) vs. Hassan (Vathelokai) : DSugui [All-vs-All] ...is still not done.... has been started, I see. I can also take over a fight if someone wants to turn it over to me. Not the hunter, but any of the others would be fine (including the AvA).
TheMagister 05-22-06, 11:56 PM	Well, I was thinking it might go something like this: 1. Undertaker shoots and reloads xbow at square x, y. Biko pinpoints the location of Undertaker at x,y from the sound. 2. Undertaker 5's to square x+1, y. Biko has to make a listen check to figure out which square Undertaker is now in, otherwise he'll randomly shoot somewhere in the area, rolling 1d8 to determine the square. I imagine that's what Abyssal had in mind, and it is a pretty obvious strategy now that it's pointed out to me. What I'll do is I'll look at the rounds where Biko managed to land a hit, and I'll roll the MS/listen checks to see if he is able to pinpoint Undertaker, then add additional rounds of combat as necessary. {slaps forehead} What a dope (myself, I'm referring to). Of course that's what he meant. Carry on. {blush} :blush: TM
Zevox 05-22-06, 11:57 PM	On missing fights, Mitza, Macbrea, and SauroGrenom have already said they're going to be working on thiers soon. Huan is always a little tardy with his, so you shouldn't have to worry about him. DSugui is pretty damn good about getting his up, so I wouldn't worry about him unless he says otherwise. StoneTree has been MIA for quite a while, so taking his is probably a good idea. Traevanon's taking Raw vs Mattes, so that leaves Khabil vs Anubis. If no one takes that by tomorrow, I'd be willing to. I just need to make sure I can wrap up Terminus' MQ in time first. Zevox
DSugui 05-23-06, 12:26 AM	I am running the FFA fight right now, but I am not sure if I will be able to finish it today (it's way past 1 am here and I am a bit sleepy already...) So probably I will finish it tomorrow (in the morning hopefully), which means I probably won't have time to run the other fight on time. So, since SoulLord or MWB can take it over, I will PM tactics to the first who says 'kawabanga' :)
SauroGrenom 05-23-06, 12:58 AM	Balbanes vs Sdentch is up.
King Uther 05-23-06, 01:12 AM	True, the buffing was too long, but you ignored an important contingency, the first one. If Sdentch rage first, withdraw with superiors fly speed to allow rage to run out before continuing fight.
TheMagister 05-23-06, 01:19 AM	but now that Sdentch is raging it evokes one of your contingencies. Now you are in base contact with Sdentch, and you cannot use a withdraw action to get away without an AoO. This is because of her reach. Pretty sure he addressed that right there. Maybe I'm reading an edited version? Wow. just... Wow. Sauro, I apologize, but I can't read the rolls in Invisible Castle because my work firewall prevents me from going to that website. Were you rolling 3d6+9 for Sdentch's shield bash attacks? She normally does 2d6+6, enlarge changes that to 3d6+7, and rage ups it once more to 3d6+9. It seems to push the bounds of the odds that she hits anyone twice with her shield and only deals 24 damage (1+1+1+9 x 2). The only reason I bring this up is the possibility of the fight ending sooner due to under-rolled damage (on earlier hits), and this could possibly save King some expendables. Thanks SO much for the run! Excellent job. Note: I left Hauber out of my tactics because I wanted his defaults to be used. Next time I'll include just one line of obvious text in there to detail a delay contingency. Thanks for the modification! TM
MindWandererB 05-23-06, 01:47 AM	I'll bite. Cowabunga. I see you've barely started the FFA, so I don't feel bad about wasting the effort you've put in already. If you'd rather finish it and send me the other one, that's okay too. I just really want Kazzzahm's fight to get finished because I want the tax money.
Traevanon 05-23-06, 01:59 AM	Okay, sending messages out to send me tactics for the Raw vs Mattes fight. Hopefully I can start it tomorrow morning.
MitzaVolchenko 05-23-06, 05:30 AM	Both MQ's complete except for wrap up RP @ Rith and Wanderer I came home to find that I had lost the remainder of oyur fight. I will redo it either in the next hour or so, or worst case when I wake up but before work. @My hunters, the loss of the last rounds of my previous fight has set me back considerably. The lack of mapping tool for sewer map makes it even harder. I will endeavor to get that fight done before work, but if I don't it will be done by this time tomorrow. I apologize for the tardiness.
Vathelokai 05-23-06, 07:27 AM	Virgo vs Telveran has been rerun. Fight result has not changed. Editorial comments are in red. If more errors are found, I can address them. @Vathelokai Thanks for running the fight. A few comments: :) I believe that the smite damage should be doubled on the charge too. Since it is not extra dice damage like SA or shocking or some such. (+4 pts damage) Halbard damage is 1d10+9 (used 2 handed) not 1d10+8 (+1+1= +2 damage)You are correct, and it is added.Lastly not sure if Divine might was added on Telveran's first 3 full attack sequences. (+4 damage on each hit in rounds 9,10,12 but not in 14 == +8,+4,+4 =+16 -4 in round 14) Divine might added. Somehow thought full attack in grapple and full melee attacks were different things.bite damage as a secondary attack is 1d4+3 -- honestly attacking twice with spikes is better for Telveran in damage done respect (1d6+6 each attack)-- however spikes + bite is fine as is if you don't want to make that change) -3damage in rnd 9 and rnd 12 = -6 damage if using bite.Changed so that all attacks are with spikes. Attack rolls kept; damage rerolled. However the rerolls on damage didn't improve things much; only 2 extra pts. of damage overall.Virgo's attempt to regain focus while in the grapple should have drawn an AOO from both Telveran and Rascal -- possibly making the concentration check harder.AOO added. Telveran hits, but for minimum damage. Virgo's concentration check still passes. This adds another problem though; Telveran takes an extra 5 damage from the empathic feedback.*However* if you do make these corrections please add in the damage from bite of the wolf for Virgo (he needs to use bite of the wolf instead of his normal grapple damage). Which may just keep the fight as is.I did, and it does. Good match. This one was all dice gods; though the empathic feedback really helped.
SauroGrenom 05-23-06, 09:05 AM	True, the buffing was too long, but you ignored an important contingency, the first one. If Sdentch rage first, withdraw with superiors fly speed to allow rage to run out before continuing fight.I suppose that you mean for Balbanes to withdraw rounds 9-15 untill the rage runs out. I looked at that, and it is just a waste of time. Sdentch has the inside line (like on a race track). She can follow you around the Arena despite the fact that Balbanes has a slightly better speed. Also the need to block any lanes for Run forces Balbanes to run around the outside and put obstacles between himself and Sdentch. You'll never get far enough away to be free for a round without getting into base contact. Even is you fly around the central pilliars, you'll never get far enough away to have a action where you can do something other than flee. If you insist, I'll run the extra 6 rounds of cat and mouse. But I'd be very surprised if it changes anything in the outcome. The attacks in current round 9 will still hit when they take place in round 15 even if she is fatiuged and cannot charge. Also the attacks in current round 10 will still hit and cause enough damage to kill Balbanes even if they take place in a new round 16 when she is fatiuged.
Erithmu 05-23-06, 09:10 AM	@ Rith and Wanderer I came home to find that I had lost the remainder of oyur fight. I will redo it either in the next hour or so, or worst case when I wake up but before work. From what you have posted I'm pretty sure I know how that one turns out.
Sunwolf 05-23-06, 10:11 AM	@Vathelokai Thanks for doing the update for the Telveran and Virgo match. @Sauro in Sdentch and Balbanes fight: Hauber counts as an ally so will affect the rewards (xp and gold) calculation (in addition to his fee).
SauroGrenom 05-23-06, 01:10 PM	Thanks Sun, I'll edit that in. Also King Uther, do you want me to extend the fight the extra 6 rounds?. I'm at work now, but maybe I'll be able to do the extention tonight. My wife has schedueled a wine tasting class for this evening and it will go till 10:00pm (fun!). After that I may be able to do a half-drunk late night edit. BTW: Does anyone know what the ruling is with regard to reactive trip attempts using a weapon. Specificially when a trip attempt fails, the foe can try and trip the attacker. But the attacker can drop the weapon instead of being tripped. When does the attacker have to make this decision? Can they make it after the trip check has failed? Or do they make that decision before the trip check is made.
Sunwolf 05-23-06, 01:28 PM	On the reactive trip attempt question: a person using a weapon to trip may choose to drop the weapon if they lose against the reactive trip check to avoid being tripped themselves ie if Al tries to trip Bo with a weapon and fails then Bo gets a reactive trip attempt against Al. If Bo succeeds on the (reactive) trip check -- Al may drop his weapon to avoid being tripped. Al chooses to drop his weapon when he knows the reactive trip check result. or a more descriptive example: Al the halfling tries to trip an Ogre with is halberd. Not surprisingly, Al fails in his trip attempt. As a reactive trip attempt the Ogre yanks on the halberd (and succeeds on the reactive trip attempt). Al can hang on to the halberd and be prone or let go of the halberd and remain on his feet to run away from the Ogre.
Ariel23 05-23-06, 02:08 PM	Aerryl vs 8-headed Hydra is up This is why we play the game.@Not Erithmu Why would a monster choose to lair (or go hunting) in a cavern in which it doesn't fit? We probably need a different map for huge and larger beasts. A huge hydra in the sewers is even less plausible, not even taking into account the fact that a large+ creature would almost certainly not have the gratings intact nearby. Is anyone interested in making a group of characters with me? I am crafting an Eastern kingdom with a Japanese flair and want to make a team of Samurai. Mostly to create legends of famous warriors from there. I have a load of good samurai pictures for it as well.Do you mean for a Gladius campaign or a CoCo guild or some other purpose? I played in a good Rokugan/OA campaign and might be interested, depending on the answer.
MitzaVolchenko 05-23-06, 03:13 PM	Loddick vs. Sunstroke is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9211787&postcount=601) Hunter Fight will be hopelessly late. I cannot work on it until I get home from work tonight as it is going tomean spreadingpapers out all over the place to track the map. To be honest, I can't run a fight without at least rudimentary visualization. I am sorry about that, but I was not expecting to get stuck with a fight on a map that is not in the mapping tool. I have been hoping that Drac would show up and solve the dilemma for me, but to no avail... I have posted the sheets and tactics here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9226116&postcount=608) and here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9226126&postcount=609) If anyone has time ad wants to pick it up, great. If not, I'll do it when I get home from work (2:15am EST or so).
DSugui 05-23-06, 03:18 PM	Meinrad (Salrantol) vs. KazzzAHM (Pittbull) vs. Hassan (Vathelokai) is up HERE and HERE Please check for errors. @MindWandererB: Did you received the tactics for Neidr vs. Jonathon I sent you? Are you goning to run it?
MindWandererB 05-23-06, 03:59 PM	@MindWandererB: Did you received the tactics for Neidr vs. Jonathon I sent you? Are you goning to run it?I did, and I did. I'm sure the gladiators will be surprised by it--both of them forgot about something very, very important.
Erithmu 05-23-06, 04:45 PM	Loddick vs. Sunstroke is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9211787&postcount=601) Thats about what I figured would happen. Thx Mitza
graymocker 05-23-06, 10:10 PM	Edit of the Undertaker vs. Biko is now complete, viewable here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9182921&postcount=587).
MindWandererB 05-23-06, 11:31 PM	@ MindWanderer: Find me a quote that states that any of those spells/powers transfers their bonuses to ammunition when fired from a launcher-type weapon (bow, sling, xbow), and I will review it. To my knowledge, none of the spells/powers you have mentioned so far transfer their bonuses to ammunition. Magic Weapon even has a Greater version of itself that specifically allows you to apply it to ammunition. Would seem somewhat redundant to have that if Magic Weapon or Greater Magic weapon already transferred the bonus.Well, I didn't find an example, but I found the next best thing: Bless Weapon specifically says that it does not confer the ability to fired ammunition. It is the only spell I can find that calls it out like this. To me, that implies that unless that text is present, the power is conferred to ammunition. The absence of any text that does specifically allow it suggests that allowing it is the default.
Traevanon 05-23-06, 11:40 PM	You dont get to cast another spell while your familiar is out flying around holding a touch spell charged do you? Edit: Nevermind, I found the rule.
NiQil 05-23-06, 11:53 PM	Well, I didn't find an example, but I found the next best thing: Bless Weapon specifically says that it does not confer the ability to fired ammunition. It is the only spell I can find that calls it out like this. To me, that implies that unless that text is present, the power is conferred to ammunition. The absence of any text that does specifically allow it suggests that allowing it is the default. I can buy the point that bluemage made that enhancement bonuses (such as that provided by the Magic Weapon spell) normally carry over to ammunition, since this is true of even the masterwork enhancement bonus. But I haven't seen anything to change my mind with regard to additional damage dice granted by spells/powers being conferred as it relates to the ones we have been discussing. I'll hold off on an official ruling for more imput (HINT HINT at everyone else LOL), but so far that is the way it appears to me. Bear in mind also that Bless Weapon is a paladin only spell, which may have something to do with the distinction (since, if memory serves, and I could be wrong here, smiting only works with melee attacks). Also, this is an enhancement bonus, rather than an additional damage die adder that is mentioned in that spell, and I would agree, after review, that enhancement bonuses do transfer. But I haven't seen anything to say that additional damage dice would also transfer to ammunition.
King Uther 05-24-06, 12:13 AM	After Sdentch is fatigued, she can no longer run nor charge, meaning at double move pace I outrun her 40ft per round, a perfect mobility for setting up future attacks. More importantly, with a straight away run I can move across the entire arena, draw scroll+move, then fire Ray of Exhaustion. True, changing tactics from my original placed me in great danger and was a risk. But I think if given the chance the outcome could become a surprise. But, if you are too drunk or just don't feel like it, no worries. I like Sdentch enough to take the loss. Balbanes is more of a story/quest character anyways, and he is about to come into final form(after I finish the quest). So if you don't have the time just don't worry about it.
MitzaVolchenko 05-24-06, 03:38 AM	I amnot going to be able to get to the HUnter fight. I got permission from Cat to runit onthe old map, but not until Ihad to leave for work yesterday. My roommate spentthe day in the hospital, and I have to get up in three hours to take her to the doctor. I then have to go to work. There is no way I can stay up straigh through to runthat fight. The set ups are posted if any of our night owl crew wants to take that fight over. I am sorry guys. It is not your fault. I don't generally fail to get a fight in, even if I am sometimes late :(
Zevox 05-24-06, 04:21 AM	Ow. Quite understandable Mitza, you just can't control things like that, and thats one hell of a fight to begin with. No reason to apologize for things like this, particularly when you've been running fights all week anyway. So, is there anyone about who might be able to get that hunter fight run in time? Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 05-24-06, 09:12 AM	Edit of the Undertaker vs. Biko is now complete, viewable here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9182921&postcount=587). Thanks!
SauroGrenom 05-24-06, 10:03 AM	Edited Balbanes vs Sdentch. The need for Balbanes to block runlanes for Sdentch was very limiting. Also the arena is only so big. In a larger more open map, you could have out run her. But on this map, you must both go in circles and curve your paths. So you cannot enjoy the full distance of your run. Also both of you have enough movement to run clear across the arena in a single move. I tried, but just couldn't get enough distance between you.
Pitlords 05-24-06, 10:38 AM	Let me know ASAP so I can get tactics and get it going. Thanks! Please pick any fight you want. You don't have to ask me for permission. If you have taken over a fight, send me a PM after you completed it so that I can reassign credits to you. @all: If you take over a fight, send me a PM after you have completed the fight else I cannot give you your deserved credits. If the fight result of a fight that has already been updated on the roster changes, like with Biko and Undertaker, send me a PM and inform me of that. Thanks PS: According to the number of Pitlords we'll probably see a State of Emergency today. I'll wait till the deadline before I decide.
waywreth 05-24-06, 10:49 AM	PS: According to the number of Pitlords we'll probably see a State of Emergency today. I'll wait till the deadline before I decide. I would like to set both my characters active if the # of Pitlords meets the demand, but in the case of a State of Emergency, I would like one paired (Gaston) over the other. Is there a preferred method to make this easier for you, or is it something you'd rather not deal with?
Pitlords 05-24-06, 12:36 PM	I cannot accept PMs with preferances for characters with so many players around. It is also much more work for me to do a SoE. If you definately want to have one PC fight, leave the others inactive.
Ariel23 05-24-06, 12:50 PM	Note: In case this is an issue, in reference to the Deflect Arrows statement in the below tactics, here are my thoughts: Yes, you are aware of your attacker and you are aware of being in combat. But the feat does not call for that. Rather, it calls for being aware of the attack itself. Being aware of an attacker being present is automatic, but being aware of an attack against you, even from someone you know is somewhere near, is not. Thus, I feel Deflect Arrows would fail against an attack when the character does not know where the attack is originating. Since I only need to be aware of the attack--the arrow becomes visible as soon as it leaves an invisible person's possession. Further, it is auto-spotted as soon as it moves more than 1' per rank of Hide away from cover. How can one not be aware of something that is automatically spotted? To see an arrow but not be aware of it? Would you mind giving the fight a header? I usually just copy and paste the pairings: Eraca Moralta (Zevox) vs. Riana Dreambinder (Ariel23) : Huan Thanks for running!
Traevanon 05-24-06, 01:11 PM	Raw (Anaconda) vs Mattes (Mattes) (ECL3): Traevanon The Fight! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9231400#post9231400) Time limitations prevented me from waiting until my internet connection cleared up to run it, so some of the rolls were done manually. Also there was a concern about editing, the editing was done after I took snapshots of the character's sheets so I allowed the fight to proceed. Wow, I almost ran out of time.
SoulLord 05-24-06, 01:22 PM	@traevanon I think you overlooked this. Giant: Half-giants are not subject to spells or effects that affect humanoids only, such as charm person or dominate person. Ghoul Touch Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Living humanoid touched Duration: 1d6+2 rounds Saving Throw: Fortitude negates Spell Resistance: Yes Imbuing you with negative energy, this spell allows you to paralyze a single living humanoid for the duration of the spell with a successful melee touch attack. Additionally, the paralyzed subject exudes a carrion stench that causes all living creatures (except you) in a 10-foot-radius spread to become sickened (Fortitude negates). A neutralize poison spell removes the effect from a sickened creature, and creatures immune to poison are unaffected by the stench. Material Component A small scrap of cloth taken from clothing worn by a ghoul, or a pinch of earth from a ghoul’s lair.
Abyssal Stalker 05-24-06, 05:37 PM	@graymocker: one more thing, could you add Undertaker's free activity to the wrap-up. It was 48gp profession (undertaker). @MindWandereB: Tell me about it. If you ever come to wonder if someone can be so stupid that he forgets lycanthrope's DR, just think about me. That's what you get of writing tactics in a haste... Oh well, maybe next time Ill think before I act. Maybe. :) But anyway, thanks for getting the fight done!
Traevanon 05-24-06, 08:59 PM	Oh no.......... okay, I'll fix (if I can still since the new pairings came out already)
Traevanon 05-25-06, 08:20 AM	Since Anaconda's PM box is full I will post this here in the hopes that he will find it. There is a problem... As others have noted humanoids are immune to ghoul touch, so Raw should have been immune to the touch attack. I am currently consulting with Pitlords to see if it is too late to edit the fight. If not I would like to propose this solution: I will replace Ghoul Touch with Shocking Grasp, deal Electricity Damage to Raw and continue the fight from the point where Ghoul Touch would have paralyzed Raw. Mattes will have 1 spell level left. If this is not acceptable I will probably be forced to rerun the fight from the beginning. Unfortunately I have been informed that it is too late to edit the fight at this point. You can be assured that I will not take fights at the last minute in the future. My sincerest apologies to Anaconda for the error.
TheMagister 05-26-06, 06:23 PM	Edited Balbanes vs Sdentch. The need for Balbanes to block runlanes for Sdentch was very limiting. Also the arena is only so big. In a larger more open map, you could have out run her. But on this map, you must both go in circles and curve your paths. So you cannot enjoy the full distance of your run. Also both of you have enough movement to run clear across the arena in a single move. I tried, but just couldn't get enough distance between you. Sorry I missed most of this discussion, but it turned out not to matter. I'd like to point out (strictly for future reference, mind you) that the fight was over in the round that Sdentch based Balbanes for the second time. Everyone always overlooks Stand Still. Sdentch hit for 16 damage on the AoO. 10+16 = DC 26 reflex save (good luck with that one) or "immediately halt as if he had used up his move actions for the round." Meaning (if interpreted strictly) that he pretty much loses his full-round of actions if he tries to withdraw. Then, the round after, Sdentch TWFs him and he dies hard. Just demonstrating. =) TM