Post/Author/DateTime	Post
waywreth 05-24-06, 02:47 PM	Fights of the Week: May 24th Sheets Deadline for editing characters sheets is 21:00 GMT. Greenwich Mean Time (http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com) shows the time and helps for conversions (http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/gmt-converter.htm) with your timezone. Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions. Pairings GM Caterane will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Make sure that your character is not in Prison (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571107&goto=lastpost). Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need, there is a nice Template ready to use that will help. You could find very useful the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps, You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. Other useful links are Skills and Feats, Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't attack pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play and above all, have FUN! Latest News Allies must be pre-buffed effective since April 19th Polymorph and Metamorphosis changes effective since April 19th Please note that due to Wizards.com’s planned upgrade to the message boards has been rescheduled. The new timeline is May 30th, 9 pm PDT (midnight EDT/ GMT 4 am May 31st) – June 12th, 2006, there will be no fights at this time. We'll resume June 14th. THE FOLLOWING ITEMS START EFFECTIVE JUNE 14 The Battles of Gladius - The 3-Fight Cycle (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466621) The Cap on Expendables (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466659) Pre-Fight Actions (Pre-Buffs): Preparing for Combat! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466659) If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
Pitlords 05-24-06, 03:12 PM	The board time shows GMT as 07:12 PM. That would mean I have to wait 2 hours before I can begin to do pairings. I always do pairings at 10 PM German Time. I don't know why the summer GMT is 11 PM German Time but that's definately too late for me (10 PM already is but I can live with that). It is now 9:12 PM German Time. The deadline is in exactly 50 minutes. EDIT: If anyone knows why GMT doesn't shift to DST, I would appreciate that. I know for sure that the Britons are still 1 hour behind of Central Europe, not 2 as the GMT time suggests.
waywreth 05-24-06, 03:22 PM	EDIT: If anyone knows why GMT doesn't shift to DST, I would appreciate that. I know for sure that the Britons are still 1 hour ahead of Central Europe, not 2 as the GMT time suggests. Why, I'm not sure, but GMT (or more technically UTC) remains the same all year around. The UK, Europe, USA & Canada are on Summer / Daylight Saving Time until Sunday 29 October 2006. According to Wikipedia: Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) is a high-precision atomic time standard which approximately tracks Universal Time (UT). It is the basis for legal civil time all over the Earth: time zones around the world are expressed as positive and negative offsets from UTC. In this role it is also referred to as Zulu time (Z), or using the historical term "Greenwich Mean Time" (GMT).
Pitlords 05-24-06, 03:26 PM	Okay, got it. But if GMT doesn't change, the summer CoCo deadline is 11 PM my time. Sicne I sometimes need 3 hours to do pairings and I'm a working man who has to get up in the morning, we have to change something.
waywreth 05-24-06, 03:31 PM	Okay, got it. But if GMT doesn't change, the summer CoCo deadline is 11 PM my time. Sicne I sometimes need 3 hours to do pairings and I'm a working man who has to get up in the morning, we have to change something. We could just change to deadline to 10pm your time since you do the pairings. I believe that's Central European Time (http://wwp.germany-eu.com/time.htm) (CET)?
barrel_master 05-24-06, 05:40 PM	I also don't mind too much if the pairings time is changed... esp. if only changed for 1 hour. Hoenstly, if the pairings time is too late... I imagine that even shifting it 2 hours wouldn't be a problem.
Pitlords 05-24-06, 05:46 PM	PAIRINGS DONE Credit Changes: +6: DSugui, Mitza +4: Caterane, Huan, Vathelokai, Erithmu +3: Zevox, Myrridin +2: KingUther, Mindwanderer, Sauro +1: Graymocker, Iced, Macbrea, Traevanon, Waywreth, NiQil Announcements and Comments Streamlined Title Lines: There are still many characters who write anything into their headline. Make sure you have read the streamlined title lines section in Rules of Gladius: Battles of Gladius I. For me, the most important help is when you leave your title line blank if you don't want to fight a week. So please check your PCs, especially the frozen ones who won't fight, and delete anything from the title line. Thanks. I've seen some posts in the Character Changes thread which request refunds. The cap doesn't go into effect before June 14 so you should try to spend your excessive expendables this week, then ask for a refund. This is the last week of battles without the 3-Fight-Cycle which will begin on June 14. Make sure you convert your sheet accordingly, including the expendables cap. This is also the last active week until June 14. As you have surely seen, SauroGrenom and NiQil have replaced Luni and LLMadCow as Elder. The latter ascended to the CoCo Hall of Fame, got a unique title and a custom avatar. The city map for the guilds has been updated with new graphics for structures and bases. Check it out. As said, guildmasters may send me icons for their structures if they have a better one. Until Dracazar updates his mapper, hunter fights can be either run in the sewer or the old cavern. Have fun Cat @Myrridin: Your campaign is in week 12. You have 3 more weeks before it is shut down.
MindWandererB 05-24-06, 05:52 PM	What is that new icon for the TLT structures? It looks like a guillotine.
Pitlords 05-24-06, 06:07 PM	TLT Base: http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Ablage/Granary.gif TLT Structures: http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Ablage/Woodcutter.gif @ALL: If you have .gif icons in that quality about medieval buildings, please send them over :drool:
SoulLord 05-24-06, 06:09 PM	Since Luni is no longer among us. Who has taken over the Gladius Weekly? @DSugui tactics for Ten Vemrond in Hunter fight sent by PM; good luck to my foes @graymocker your sheet for Koan looks messed up.
Huan 05-24-06, 07:00 PM	Since Luni is no longer among us. Who has taken over the Gladius Weekly? I see SauroGrenom is looking at keeping it alive, but to be honest, that's actually a position I have been eyeing...
SoulLord 05-24-06, 07:02 PM	@Huan So do I send articles for the Gladius weekly your way? just say the word.
Sindorin 05-24-06, 07:02 PM	I always saw it as a position that we all should work together on, and I am glad that people want to keep it going.
Sindorin 05-24-06, 07:06 PM	One question - Are characters in the 10th level league able to craft? I wouldn't mind getting Va'ria's two week crafting project out of the way before the frozen leagues open up. If so, she started it last week and it should be completed this week. If not, that is all right but I see no reason why a frozen character can't do a free weekly activity if they are allowed to quest for guild money.
Caterane 05-24-06, 07:13 PM	Setup for Evaine's monster fight is here. @Sindorin: Normally you can craft while frozen but your character is not set ready for May 24.
Sindorin 05-24-06, 07:14 PM	EDIT: LOL OOPS I'll just start the crafting next week so you don't have to go edit the posting, thanks for pointing that out. Duh.
MindWandererB 05-24-06, 08:16 PM	@Zevox and Greymocker: Tactics have been sent. Some of the toughest fights I've ever had, I think.
Macbrea 05-24-06, 08:24 PM	set up for Sdentch (TheMagister) vs. Unknown Monster : Macbrea can be found here
graymocker 05-24-06, 08:47 PM	Hey, I got assigned a fight to PL. I didn't volunteer to PL one this week. I volunteered to take an un-PLed match last week, but I don't want to make it a regular obligation in case I'm having a busier weekend. That said, I'll be able to go ahead and run the fight this weekend... but in the future, please take me off the list of regular pitlords. Should I PM this to an admin account?
MindWandererB 05-24-06, 08:52 PM	Should I PM this to an admin account?That's the general rule, yes. Speaking of which, thanks for telling me to check my own pitlord entry--I need to send Pitlords a PM about that as well.
SauroGrenom 05-24-06, 08:58 PM	Since Luni is no longer among us. Who has taken over the Gladius Weekly?It's my responsibility to keep this alive. I'll work tonight on making a new weekly. I hope to get the issue done in the next couple days. I probably won't be able to do a good weekly every week, and at the beginning it'll take me a while to get the style right. I hope to be able to put up a new post every couple week.s Perhaps I can get Cat to rename the post "The Gladius Recorder" or "Gladius Post Dispatch" or some such, so that it sounds a bit more like a newspaper than a rag. My Elder Position is Events Lords. It will be a couple weeks maybe months before we start doing Global Events, but when that happens it's my job to cordinate them and run them. I hope to work with Huan and King Uther to plann great events for our characters to participate in. The Iron Man Tournament will be one of the first. I have a couple other ideas as well. Such as the Great Race, Counter-Spelling Crown, Brawler's Match, Archers Challange, Mind Melee, and so on...
Iced 05-24-06, 09:32 PM	The application of the forgery skill is far too powerful! With a +10 modifier you can bring a very young white dragon into the arena for an EL3 fight? Where's the fairness in that? My opponent is a level three rogue with a crossbow, I won't be fighting him I'll be fighting his allies! The dragon has in excess of fifty hit points in an EL3 battle! Something's not right here!
Zevox 05-25-06, 12:06 AM	@ Pitlords, Mitza, and Waywreth - Indrithia and Annalina are actually supposed to be doing a team MQ together (thier titles say they're MQing with each other, so I'm not sure where the confusion resulted from). If theres not some problem with that for some reason, could either Mitza or Waywreth perhaps volunteer to take that off the other's hands? @ Iced - Aye, thats how it works. However, Rinzwind won't be getting any allies this week: he did not prebuff them (saying under your prebuff section that you'll pick later and PM the pitlord with the selection doesn't count because it undermines the purpose of the prebuff rule). Tactics recieved BTW, though if with that info you want to change anything (I haven't looked at them yet, so I don't know if you would) go right ahead and send me new ones. @ MindWandererB - Tactics for Zero and Aeryll recieved, thank you. @ My other players - I have tomorrow wide open, so if I have tactics for a fight by then it can get done then. Just giving you the heads-up on that possibility :) . @ King Uther - Mitza already posted the tactics for the big ECL 4 Hunter fight, just so you know. @ My other Pitlords - I believe I'll be able to have Asran and Eraca's tactics away tonight. Zevox
MindWandererB 05-25-06, 12:20 AM	The application of the forgery skill is far too powerful! With a +10 modifier you can bring a very young white dragon into the arena for an EL3 fight? Where's the fairness in that? My opponent is a level three rogue with a crossbow, I won't be fighting him I'll be fighting his allies! The dragon has in excess of fifty hit points in an EL3 battle! Something's not right here!Well, Anaconda has calculated the HP wrong (it doesn't get max HP at first level, so it should be only 45), but that's still pretty crazy. It has the HP of a level 6 barbarian. Rinzwind is the perfect example of what happens when someone totally crashes the relevant skills (actually, if he were a human bard instead, he could have done even more: synergy with Knowledge: N&R plus another feat could have gotten another 4 points of Diplomacy and 2 of Forgery, which would net him a Young white dragon instead). I think a big part of the problem is that white dragons' CR is too low, but yeah: it's overpowered.
King Uther 05-25-06, 01:35 AM	Well, being someone who creates characters sometimes merely to expose flaws in the system, I had a roguish character designed to do just that. But what his allies had blew he dragon out of the water. There is little chance that anyone could stand up to my 9HD Griffon at EL3, with its 76hp and +21 grapple it's tough to beat. But I think that character will stay in his box unless forgery becomes any more of a problem than it is. Good counter for forgery? Sleight of hand(in theory). Can't guard his stuff if he's using forgery.
Traevanon 05-25-06, 02:10 AM	This is long, I'll sblock it so it doesnt get in the way: I'm a bit frustrated with my first two fights (and practice fight). Hopefully this third one (ECL5) will not be any more flawed than the first two. The main issue: - I have had to go back and edit both of my fights for the loser, and my practice fight (upon review) would never have passed inspection by the losing party. Admittedly it was because of important, possibly result affecting, things that I missed. However, I'm not certain that I'm *ever* going to catch everything in any given fight. I only have so much time to offer to each one, and I'm not even sure that its fair or objective to go back and fix complaints by altering the results. On average I look up one to two rules items per round of combat. That's enough to assure me that by the time I come around to repeat previous rules I will have forgotten them and have to look them up again. There are just too many of them, even in only core, to never miss anything. I dont mind looking things up, its part of the game, but I cant cross-reference everything. Even if the players were allowed to run things for themselves round by round, I'm pretty sure that they would be able to go back through a second time and find mistakes. Its hindsight, which is always clearer. The loser of the fight could almost always find ways that the pitlord could have done better. After all, they dont have to interpret two unfamiliar characters, juggle 4 different web pages, be masters of copy/paste-fu, try to be objective and subjective at the same time, and try to put a story into the fight on top of it. All they have to do is pick through and say "Look! You missed that!" Thankfully my players so far have been reasonable in resolving things, but it could get to be a problem. Lastly I've noticed that it is possible that I am not and isolated or inexperienced case. A formidably large percentage of fights run by other pitlords in this string of threads ends with major questions or edits after completion. I am beginning to think that this is actually normal accepted behavior. It is not acceptable to me. Fights need to end when they end. They need to be resolved without objectivity destroying time-warps and frustrating delays. For me, I expect that to be satisfied I should be able to sort out which match I'm in charge of, set the post up, request tactics, review the sheets and tactics and print everything out in about an hour. Then, beginning the actual fight, setting up the roller session, the battle map session, resolving starting positions, initiative and the first couple of buffing rounds should take about an hour. Then the rest of the match, detection, conflict, resolution (conclusion, stalemate, improvisation or attrition) can take two or three hours for a total match time of about 5 hours with comments and whatnot thrown in for 6. If I have to go back and figure out how to best fix a problem for the loser in a large percentage of matches, then redo the last 25-50% of the match the time invested almost doubles, and worst of all nobody (especially the ultimate loser) is satisfied. Maybe I should hold off on Pitlording until I have fought more matches, but the CoCo is in such dire need of Pitlord help I'm reluctant to do so (It could take a while, I'm two months in and only have one fight recorded with my character). Maybe I should just get faster at editing and fixing fights, but I'm not sure that this phase of a battle can be improved upon time-wise that much. Maybe I should worry less about the loser's complaints. I'm not really sure. That's why I posted this.
Zevox 05-25-06, 02:14 AM	@ DSugui - Tactics for Eraca Moralta (vs Neidr Bresent) have been sent. @ Iced - Tactics for Archdevil Asran (vs The White Hand) have been sent. Zevox
DarthVegan 05-25-06, 02:33 AM	@MindwandererB: Tactics sent via PM for Micah vs. Ba'al
King Uther 05-25-06, 02:40 AM	@Travenon It happens. The more you do it the less you miss, but I still miss things all the time. Don't let it bog you down, for PLing is a beautiful way to solidify the rules in your head. @Mitza Tactics for Alagar, son of Angosh sent via PM. You know, I've had better characters than Alagar, but he holds the longest win streak for me ever. I always had characters go 7-0 and lose their 8th. Sort of an unlucky fight # for me. So now we see if he can chase the record further.
MindWandererB 05-25-06, 02:43 AM	@Zevox: I send a one-line addition to Aerryl's tactics, hope you got them. @Trae: Yours is definitely not an isolated case of what you describe. It takes multiple exposures to any given rule before you'll memorize it. Took me a long time to get the grapple rules down, and I'm normally pretty good about getting rules down quickly. A recent article on the WotC website said that the designers do the same--whenever grappling begins, out comes the PHB. I recommend just taking one fight a week and giving it your best effort. Get it done as early as possible so that there's time for comments. Take a look at your gladiators' sheets as soon as pairings are done. Customize a fight template so it's just the way you like it. You can also practice by reading a bunch of other people's fights, and making sure you understand why they went down the way they did. Heck, you just described how much easier it is to find a flaw than avoid them--practice finding flaws, and I can guarantee that any mistake you find in someone else's fight, you probably will never make yourself. And you won't get many fights perfect. The only perfect fights are OHKO's. Everything else requires some interpretation of tactics, and you'll never enact precisely what the player had in mind. Sweat the big problems--granted, Ghoul Touch on a nonhumanoid was a big one, but they're not all like that--but don't worry about every little thing. Honestly, I can tell you're quite a perfectionist. No one else has tried practice fights before doing a real one, and it's not often that people complain about their own pitlording. You won't get better if you don't practice--my fights take me about half as long as when I started, and I've only been pitlording for a couple of months now. And consider this: if what to everyone else is "acceptable imperfection" is unacceptable to you, and your personal bar is set higher than everyone else's, you're almost guaranteed to bring the average quality level of fights up a notch. Think about that before you decide to quit on us.
Zevox 05-25-06, 03:02 AM	@Zevox: I send a one-line addition to Aerryl's tactics, hope you got them. Yep, got it. @ Traevnon - That happens to every new PL, and the vast majority of the older ones too. I'm going to second MWB's suggestion: just do one fight per week for a while, and try to get it done earlier if possible without being hasty. Thats what I did, and I improved many fold from when I started (you don't want to know how badly I botched my second fight the first time I ran it, or my first high-level fight), and I definitely can manage fights a lot faster too (some of my recent ones have taken only 2 or 3 hours from when I posted the setup). And definitely don't expect to get every perfect the first time: few fights run by any of the pitlords around here are. The trick is being able to tell which errors are worth editing in and which aren't - little things that won't affect the outcome can be left out, its just the bigger ones that could possibly cause an outcome change that need to put in. Zevox
Caterane 05-25-06, 05:37 AM	Something is indeed not right. The Forgery skill let's you bring in more allies, not more powerful ones! Example: Ixenthor (ECL 10) has a cohort (ECL 8). With his +10 forgery he could now let Enzoul be considered ECL 6 which frees 2 CAs for the Direbat. There's no way I could bring in a ECL 10 ally!!! The maximum CA must be kept! A very young white dragon has CR 3 which means you must be ECL 7 to have it on your sheet. Once you are ECL 7, the +10 Forgery skill let's you reduce the CR of the dragon by 2 to a Virtual CR of 1 for a very young white dragon. That frees up space for the ECL 7 character so that he can have additional allies. Not allowed is that he uses the Forgery skill to bring in a CR 5 dragon because that would be past his CA. The forgery description clearly says "more allies" and this is what it does. The CR 3 white dragon is an illegal ally for an ECL 3 PC. Besides, I really wonder how a level 3 rogue could defeat one in the miniquest.... EDIT: I've checked Rinzwind's sheet and it is full of mistakes regarding the allies. As said, he can in no way have a CR 3 ally before ECL 7. The Heavy Warhorse is likewise illegal because it's CR 2 which needs ECL 6. The dragon miniquest was EL 2 which is below the dragon's. Since when can I quest at EL 1 to obtain a Planetar ally (who has been captured by ...goblins?). Buffs and Prefight actions: Use forgery to take either Paris SKyle or heavy warhorse into the arena. I'll pm the pitlord to tell wich one. This is also illegal. You have to specify the ally or it is not available. This goes straight to prison.
Pittbull 05-25-06, 06:02 AM	I told Anaconda last week that his buffing is not right. @Graymocker: Kazzz' tactics have been sent.
MitzaVolchenko 05-25-06, 07:08 AM	@Traevanon (and really all of the PL types) You are not alone. I have been PLing multiple to max fight s for months now, and I still pull up the SRD and look up all manner of things that I already know just to be sure. I suggest using the hypertext SRD as it makes flipping between rules easier (www.d20srd.org). I also storngly suggest using Firefox. It allows you to keep multiple rule tabs open for easy jumping between them. Typically, I have my first tab on CoCo in general. I post character sheets and tactics then open three tabs of just that post. I use one for each character and then one for both sets of tactics. This makes it quick and easy to pop back and forth. I then open a tab for my dice roller (I do like the CoCo roller, though there are a few features that I would like to see added.) and a tab for the mapping tool. The mapping tool is invaluable in keeping track of who is where and what order they all go in. I then open a word document to actually type out the fight. This lets me store it for easy editing and have it full sized while I work rather than stuck in the posting sized box on the forum. I will promise you that my tactics for Zwei will be very clear and specific. If I fail to be specific and you wing it, I will not complain as long as you use common sense. The only complaint I have ever had with her tactics is when someone decided that Hide and Move Silently really meant scream a battle cry and charge into the waiting arms of a grapple-psi twink. Don't take the hostility from players too seriously. I am learning ot to be quite so **** about getting things perfect. I make mistakes, when I can, I fix them, then I move on to the next week. Also, if you are running a fight, and need help or advice or just someone to bug for answers, pop up and IM client and look for me. I bug Macbrea and MM2k5 for answers all the time. I don't mind being similarly bugged. Most of all, have fun with it. @My fighters several tactics received. I am off duty today, so don't expect anything before tomorrow. @My PL's I am off duty today. If I get into a tactics writing mood, I'll pop them off today...if not they will be in by midday Friday. @Cat A thousand blessings on your House for handing that Hunter to someone else. I swear I will run all of my fights this week without complaint and they will all be in on time! Being given a cookie, I do not wish to give any reason for said cookie to be taken away ;)
waywreth 05-25-06, 08:34 AM	@ Pitlords, Mitza, and Waywreth - Indrithia and Annalina are actually supposed to be doing a team MQ together (thier titles say they're MQing with each other, so I'm not sure where the confusion resulted from). If theres not some problem with that for some reason, could either Mitza or Waywreth perhaps volunteer to take that off the other's hands? Got it and will have it setup within the next few minutes, and you requested EL4 - I just want to confirm that?
SoulLord 05-25-06, 09:21 AM	@Traevanon Don't worry all of us who have pitlorded have made mistakes. soon there will be another freeze upon us here's a suggestion. you have lots of fights in the battle threads with characters and tactics ready for you to take. Since you have expressed your desire to practice why not rerun some of this fights under your perspective and luck on the dice.
bgt 05-25-06, 09:23 AM	@MitzaVolchenko-Tactics sent. @DSugui-Tactics sent. I apologize for any problems my unusual tactics may cause.
Traevanon 05-25-06, 09:51 AM	@ all: Thanks for the words of encouragement. I believe in carrying my own weight and plan to do so for as long as I can tolerate it. I have learned much in the first few weeks that carries over to my tabletop game. I think MWB is right when he says to only take matches at the beginning of the week, when time allows for fixing mistakes. I will consider that policy from here on out. Does anyone know of a good, cheap HTML editor? I use several iterations of notepad at the moment. I think I aught to be able to get Word to display HTML properly as I write it, but I've only barely explored that angle so far.
DSugui 05-25-06, 09:55 AM	Ok, busy week. @SoulLord : Tactics for Ten Vermond received @bgt: Tactics for Neidr received (are you serious?!) @MacBrea: Tactics for Izumi received @Zevox: Tactics for Eraca Moralta received @mattes: Tactics ffor Tivik received
waywreth 05-25-06, 10:21 AM	@Zevox - Tactics for Loquan and crew in Loquan Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Zero (MindwandererB) sent via PM. Please also respond to my other PM regarding the miniquest for your 2 characters. @Vathelokai - Tactics for Gaston in Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs. Gaston (waywreth) sent via PM.
bgt 05-25-06, 10:34 AM	@bgt: Tactics for Neidr received (are you serious?!) Oh, I am quite serious. Quite serious indeed.
SoulLord 05-25-06, 11:02 AM	@ all: Thanks for the words of encouragement. I believe in carrying my own weight and plan to do so for as long as I can tolerate it. I have learned much in the first few weeks that carries over to my tabletop game. I think MWB is right when he says to only take matches at the beginning of the week, when time allows for fixing mistakes. I will consider that policy from here on out. Does anyone know of a good, cheap HTML editor? I use several iterations of notepad at the moment. I think I aught to be able to get Word to display HTML properly as I write it, but I've only barely explored that angle so far. well you can't go cheaper than free.... well you could but it would not make any sense :) http://www.kevingunn.com/weborama.htm http://www.arachnoid.com/arachnophilia/ http://www.mmedia.is/ezpad/ just to name a few
SauroGrenom 05-25-06, 11:06 AM	Huan and Stormwind, My wife has planned my weekend up fully. So I'll be out of town starting friday night through till monday night. What this means is that for me to run your fight, I'll need to get tactics right away today. Perhaps I can get the fight done tonight if it is an easy one. Otherwise there is a slight chance it could get done late monday night, but more likely tuesday night. So please get those tactics to me today, and I will hope to get the fight put together and posted tonight. Thanks, Sauro
Ariel23 05-25-06, 11:07 AM	Besides, I really wonder how a level 3 rogue could defeat one in the miniquest.... The dragon miniquest was EL 2 which is below the dragon's. Since when can I quest at EL 1 to obtain a Planetar ally (who has been captured by ...goblins?). This is the exact same thing that was done when he got his friend (or his other account?) to run his own quest for a Howler (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8812450) and used an EL 1 goblin encounter. Rinzwind is the perfect example of what happens when someone totally crashes the relevant skills I'm not sure other skills can compete with the ability to have extra allies. Intimidate would seem to do the converse, but it is much less useful than it appears: most allies are INT 2.
Ariel23 05-25-06, 11:19 AM	I think I aught to be able to get Word to display HTML properly as I write it, but I've only barely explored that angle so far.Hit F12 or "Save As" and save as html filtered [Filtered works better b/c it removes MSWord-isms]. Then close that file and re-open the .htm file. [If you don't, it will continue to use MSWord, not the web editor.] Under the VIEW tab, select "View HTML Source." This pops up a new window. Basically then all you have to do is Select All, Copy, and Paste (CTRL A, CTRL C, CTRL V) the html code. But make sure that when you edit your original document, you either select View-->Refresh or else close the html editor and choose "View HTML Source" again. Otherwise, you will be copying without the changes you've made. About mistakes and PLing: I've never played in a game where we went back more than 1 round (even that is rare) and redid the fight. People forget to add their own bonuses all the time, but we don't stop and redo the combat because of that. If you're lucky and catch it soon enough, the DM may let you hit when you should have missed, save when you should have failed, etc. (It's more likely to be corrected for ongoing effects, but it doesn't usually change past events.) Fixing mistakes is nice, but not really required. If you make too many, they can request that the fight be held over. The best way to get a perfect fight is to post 1-2 rounds at a time and ask the players to look them over. But that is incredibly time-intensive (and time-sensitive).
Caterane 05-25-06, 11:49 AM	This is the exact same thing that was done when he got his friend (or his other account?) to run his own quest for a Howler (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8812450) and used an EL 1 goblin encounter. In any case, these are invalid quests with invalid questlords to gain invalid allies which are invalidly prebuffed. You can't go wrong more than that. I hope the prison reopens up soon.
Zevox 05-25-06, 01:47 PM	@ Waywreth - Tactics recieved, PM replied to. I'll run Zero vs Loquan tonight. Zevox
Sunwolf 05-25-06, 02:21 PM	@MindwandererB Tactics for Telveran sent by PM.
DSugui 05-25-06, 02:39 PM	@Mitza: Tactics for Dronnar and Daisy sent by PM @Traevanon: Tactics for Khabil received @Biko111: Tactics for Biko received
Ariel23 05-25-06, 03:04 PM	@ Caterane Tactics sent for Evaine v. 3 monsters I assumed it was the cavern map. If it is the sewer map, change them to read: Summon the Griffon in an appropriate space as soon as the enemy is located. It can squeeze, of course, but I'd prefer that it didn't have to.
MindWandererB 05-25-06, 03:26 PM	@Cat: I just went through the rules on allies, and as written, the white dragon is perfectly legal (except for the mistakes, and that it wasn't prebuffed, and possibly the quest). The rules specifically say that: 1) To acquire a diplomacy ally, all you need is the requisite Diplomacy skill and the quest. 2) To bring an ally into a fight, it needs to be under your max. 3) Forgery allows a character to "treat one of his allies as if that ally would be lower in ECL (or CR if no ECL available)." You'll need to rewrite those parts of the rules if you want them to say what you intended, because right now they don't. @Sunwolf, SauroG, & DarthVegan: Tactics received. I'll start on Telvaran v. Raskos now. Still waiting on Book5 for Ba'al.
Ariel23 05-25-06, 07:18 PM	@Mitzavolchenko Tactics for Riana sent. @barrel_master Posted some minor accounting things in the prison. None of them are fight-related. Also, worms don't have semen. :tongue:
MindWandererB 05-26-06, 02:15 AM	Raskos vs. Telveran is done, at long last. Part 1, Part 2. It was kind of an odd fight, and a fairly exciting one at times, so I invite folks to take a look and comment. I've never had to improvise quite so much, so agreement or disagreement with the way I did it would be helpful for the future. @Zevox: Some mistakes on the Zero/Loquan fight. One, you need line of sight to target a spell. That means you need, well, sight. Two, you messed up some durations: you missed a digit on Chameleon: it's 10 minutes per level, not one, and an elixir of Hiding lasts an hour. They're not spotting Zero that easily. You've got a messed up map in round 4. I also don't follow the Spot DC in round 7--where does DC 29 come from? Edit: Ariel just pointed out another mistake, a rule that apparently neither you nor I know: if you have no PP, you can't be psionically focused! Given the choice between using Offensive Precognition or using psionic focus, I would choose the focus. My tactics were impossible, since they had Zero refocusing with no PP left. Since it was my mistake, though, I'll understand whichever choice you make--but for your own sanity, I think saving the PP will make the fight go faster.
TheMagister 05-26-06, 07:11 AM	set up for Sdentch (TheMagister) vs. Unknown Monster : Macbrea can be found here 5 large "flying marine animals?! (Why does everything have to be flying? Sigh...) This is like Texas Hold 'em; I wanna play just to see what you're holding! I'm not even gonna look through the MM to speculate...it'll ruin the surprise. Well, the last "flying marine animals" that Sdentch faced were half-fiend trolls that attacked her party on a sea voyage, so we'll go with that. :ayyyy!: Tactics incoming, should be in your PM box sometime today! TM P.S. - flying marine animals?! :confused: {gasp!} Sdentch is up against Baatra spawn! :gah:
Macbrea 05-26-06, 08:30 AM	5 large "flying marine animals?! (Why does everything have to be flying? Sigh...) This is like Texas Hold 'em; I wanna play just to see what you're holding! I'm not even gonna look through the MM to speculate...it'll ruin the surprise. Well, the last "flying marine animals" that Sdentch faced were half-fiend trolls that attacked her party on a sea voyage, so we'll go with that. :ayyyy!: Tactics incoming, should be in your PM box sometime today! TM P.S. - flying marine animals?! :confused: {gasp!} Sdentch is up against Baatra spawn! :gah: Well, they could be animals. They look like animals.. but your not quite sure. You think you have seen them in the ocean before. But these oddly enough are flying through the air. OOC: So, you know 0 ranks in knowledge tells you a size and general description. The animal part is the only reasonable description I can give you with monster I rolled. And there are 5 of them because I assume she can count them perfectly fine. Good thing though is they don't appear to have ranged weapons. So, they are coming to play with you.
SauroGrenom 05-26-06, 09:00 AM	Raskos vs. Telveran is done, at long last. Part 1, Part 2. It was kind of an odd fight, and a fairly exciting one at times, so I invite folks to take a look and comment. I've never had to improvise quite so much, so agreement or disagreement with the way I did it would be helpful for the future. Nicely done. I must say that when the weasel ran up the pilliar to grapple me, I was tickled. I haven't given the fight a very carefull read for errors, and I won't. Thanks for the effort.
Caterane 05-26-06, 09:01 AM	Evaine vs Monsters is done The mapper only lists the red and blue dots, but not those of players 3-6.
SoulLord 05-26-06, 09:08 AM	It's my responsibility to keep this alive. I'll work tonight on making a new weekly. I hope to get the issue done in the next couple days. I probably won't be able to do a good weekly every week, and at the beginning it'll take me a while to get the style right. I hope to be able to put up a new post every couple week.s Perhaps I can get Cat to rename the post "The Gladius Recorder" or "Gladius Post Dispatch" or some such, so that it sounds a bit more like a newspaper than a rag. My Elder Position is Events Lords. It will be a couple weeks maybe months before we start doing Global Events, but when that happens it's my job to cordinate them and run them. I hope to work with Huan and King Uther to plann great events for our characters to participate in. The Iron Man Tournament will be one of the first. I have a couple other ideas as well. Such as the Great Race, Counter-Spelling Crown, Brawler's Match, Archers Challange, Mind Melee, and so on... 1.- So we send articles for the former Gladius weekly your way? and are the rewards the same as before? 2.- Global events perhaps it would be best if you coordinated yourself with all the guildmasters as we could really use your help wehen coordinating big events like the ones the TAO likes to throw every now and then.
SoulLord 05-26-06, 09:21 AM	@mindwanderer a few things I Noticed on the Raskos, the Jade Father (SauroGrenom) vs Telveran Trueblade (Sunwolf) [ECL 9] 1.- After climbing Raskos casts invisibility. since I don't see any mention of it being a still spell I think Raskos can't cast while climbing using spider climb (slippers of spider climb work just fine though) spider climb he affected creature must have its hands free to climb in this manner. I have seen it ruled this way before. Still it did not change the outcome of the match.
Sunwolf 05-26-06, 10:27 AM	@MindwanderB Comments on Raskos Vs Telveran Looks like the fight went fairly close to what we both expected. Ouch! Poor Rascal. He did a fine job, though. Tough little familiar isn't he? Yep missed the spiderclimb. I thought fly would be better to allow use of the close range powers so assumed that would be used. Spiderclimb accomplishes nearly the same effect but is cheaper. No problem on my end with with your improvizations since you improvised Rascal attacking since he could reach for Telveran and True Strike for Raskos. Both are reasonable and within the intent of the tactics, I believe. Other comments, FYI: Using range attacks into a grapple entails the risk of hitting one of the grapplers at random, so Telveran would likely have refrained from attacking while Rascal and Raskos were grappling -- which justs shifts the attacks to later in time. Potentially giving Raskos a few more rounds to attack with his bow. No big deal since Telveran hadn't even started using CLW wand charges yet. No need to edit for that reason.
TheMagister 05-26-06, 11:51 AM	Well, they could be animals. They look like animals.. but your not quite sure. You think you have seen them in the ocean before. But these oddly enough are flying through the air. OOC: So, you know 0 ranks in knowledge tells you a size and general description. The animal part is the only reasonable description I can give you with monster I rolled. And there are 5 of them because I assume she can count them perfectly fine. Good thing though is they don't appear to have ranged weapons. So, they are coming to play with you. Oh, I understand the system. I'm still curious and just dying to know. Funny, I sent a whole page of "if they use ranged weapons" tactics contingency with my PM. On that note: @Macbrea - Tactics for Sdentch vs. Unknown Monsters sent via PM. It'll be interesting! Good luck! Send any questions concerning clarifications to me via PM. Thanks for running!
TheMagister 05-26-06, 12:03 PM	@Zevox and Iced - Man TWH just can't BUY a break! Asran might as well be custom crafted to be unbeatable by TWH's build. He's anti-sneak attack (darkness and fly speed) and anti-element damage (TWH's second line of offense). AND he's got allies that can find TWH via blindsense (darned dire bats). I'm sorry Zevox, but this is a financial decision, not a RP one. TWH surrenders. PMs will be sent to all parties involved. Enjoy the easy money. TM
Zevox 05-26-06, 12:46 PM	@Zevox: Some mistakes on the Zero/Loquan fight. One, you need line of sight to target a spell. That means you need, well, sight. Two, you messed up some durations: you missed a digit on Chameleon: it's 10 minutes per level, not one, and an elixir of Hiding lasts an hour. They're not spotting Zero that easily. You've got a messed up map in round 4. Acknowledged, I'll edit such appropriately. I also don't follow the Spot DC in round 7--where does DC 29 come from? Zero's previous hide roll of 21 plus the distance (as Loquan & co. were closing at 10'/round). Edit: Ariel just pointed out another mistake, a rule that apparently neither you nor I know: if you have no PP, you can't be psionically focused! Given the choice between using Offensive Precognition or using psionic focus, I would choose the focus. My tactics were impossible, since they had Zero refocusing with no PP left. Since it was my mistake, though, I'll understand whichever choice you make--but for your own sanity, I think saving the PP will make the fight go faster. Thats a new one by me too. Given that the option of not manifesting permits me to follow your given tactics closer, I'll take that one (and yeah, the "sanity" argument is rather forceful too). Though also for my own sanity the round Zero previously spent manifesting will be spent doing diddly squat (so I don't have to rewind seven rounds of actions :twitch: ) - shouldn't hurt his odds in the least. @Zevox and Iced - Man TWH just can't BUY a break! Asran might as well be custom crafted to be unbeatable by TWH's build. He's anti-sneak attack (darkness and fly speed) and anti-element damage (TWH's second line of offense). AND he's got allies that can find TWH via blindsense (darned dire bats). I'm sorry Zevox, but this is a financial decision, not a RP one. TWH surrenders. PMs will be sent to all parties involved. Enjoy the easy money. TM I noticed that while writing Asran's tactics too. Never before have so many of his Half-Fiend abilities been so useful to him in a single battle :) . And to boot, TWH is Asran's ranger favored enemy, a human. I can think of a single way he might be able to beat him short of hoping for high CL and damage rolls on scorching rays, but its a long shot, especially since Asran can heal. I understand the decision. Zevox
TheMagister 05-26-06, 01:32 PM	What "single way" is that? I wracked my brain and couldn't come up with anything... Maybe you'll enlighten me? TM
MindWandererB 05-26-06, 01:36 PM	1.- After climbing Raskos casts invisibility. since I don't see any mention of it being a still spell I think Raskos can't cast while climbing using spider climb (slippers of spider climb work just fine though)Here's how I interpreted Spider Climb: You need both hands free to actually move, but you can stay in position with your hands occupied. I made sure he never had anything in hand while he was actually moving. We can debate that if you like, for the sake of future cases, but for now I can see both interpretations having merit. Using range attacks into a grapple entails the risk of hitting one of the grapplers at random, so Telveran would likely have refrained from attacking while Rascal and Raskos were grappling -- which justs shifts the attacks to later in time. Potentially giving Raskos a few more rounds to attack with his bow. No big deal since Telveran hadn't even started using CLW wand charges yet. I had to do some interpreting of the Attach ability, too. The ability doesn't actually mention grapples except as a method of removing the attached creature. So the way I called it, as you can see from the rolls I used, was that Raskos actually had to be the one to initiate the grapple, and until he did, he wasn't considered grappling. Kind of weird, but there's nothing that says that the attacher or the attachee is considered grappled. I don't think I ever had Telveran shoot after the grapple was formally initiated. There's another oddity that I expected someone to pick out: miss chances for Rascal in the Obscuring Mist. If you look at the spell, you only have a 20% miss chance when you're at least 5 feet away, but Rascal has no reach. First time I've ever seen a lack of reach be an advantage, but it was in this case. Zero's previous hide roll of 21 plus the distance (as Loquan & co. were closing at 10'/round).Ahh, I see. In that case, it's a mistake--once Zero has had a turn in which he's not attacking, he gets a new Hide check. You only suffer the -20 penalty for sniping in the round in which you make the attack. You can consider it a "0-foot step"--movement that doesn't actually go anywhere, but which can be used to re-hide.
Zevox 05-26-06, 02:14 PM	What "single way" is that? I wracked my brain and couldn't come up with anything... Maybe you'll enlighten me? TM The way I figured it, the best chance you had was to magic weapon your bow and use either Expeditious Retreat or Fly to evade Asran and keep the battle ranged. You're better than him with ranged weapons, and he couldn't catch you if you did and used a double-move/shoot-move/double-move movement pattern (TWH moves 180' per 2 rounds that way while Asran moves 120'). Its a long shot because the Furies could still likely catch you (160' per 2 rounds and the fact that the arena will make you turn fairly often), Asran deals more damage on successful bow shots than you do, and he can heal 1d8+1 vs your shots doing 1d8 each, so you'd need either a crit or some really lucky rolls. Ahh, I see. In that case, it's a mistake--once Zero has had a turn in which he's not attacking, he gets a new Hide check. You only suffer the -20 penalty for sniping in the round in which you make the attack. You can consider it a "0-foot step"--movement that doesn't actually go anywhere, but which can be used to re-hide. Really? *sigh* You'd think considering I have my own sneak I'd know something like that. Oh well, I'll edit that in too. This is going to be one frustrating match. Zevox
MindWandererB 05-26-06, 02:41 PM	Really? *sigh* You'd think considering I have my own sneak I'd know something like that. Oh well, I'll edit that in too. This is going to be one frustrating match.I apologise for that. And to all of Zero's future pitlords as well. I've been trying to come up with an effective sneak character for a long time now, and it's gone through several different incarnations in my mind--goblin mountie, grey elf arcane trickster, forest gnome assassin, forest gnome bard/cleric/psiwar--when I stumbled across the Tiny white dragon. He's a bit worse at Hide checks than the gnome would have been, but the speed makes it worthwhile. In the long, long, long run, he'll be able to manage an augmented Compression to become Fine, and pick up Hide and Move Silently as class skills. Should be an unholy terror at that point. The good news is that, unlike full casters, he'll never be much harder to manage than he is now. Which isn't saying much, but still, he'll be much less of a headache compared to other, say, ECL 15 characters by the time he gets there.
Stormwind 05-26-06, 04:27 PM	Huan and Stormwind, My wife has planned my weekend up fully. So I'll be out of town starting friday night through till monday night. What this means is that for me to run your fight, I'll need to get tactics right away today. Perhaps I can get the fight done tonight if it is an easy one. Otherwise there is a slight chance it could get done late monday night, but more likely tuesday night. So please get those tactics to me today, and I will hope to get the fight put together and posted tonight. Thanks, Sauro @Sauro: Sorry about the delay in getting tactics to you. I've been flooded at work and haven't had the time to send them until tonight. No rush on the fight ... RL comes first so enjoy the weekend with your wife. :) Storm
TheMagister 05-26-06, 05:48 PM	The way I figured it, the best chance you had was to magic weapon your bow and use either Expeditious Retreat or Fly to evade Asran and keep the battle ranged. You're better than him with ranged weapons, and he couldn't catch you if you did and used a double-move/shoot-move/double-move movement pattern (TWH moves 180' per 2 rounds that way while Asran moves 120'). Its a long shot because the Furies could still likely catch you (160' per 2 rounds and the fact that the arena will make you turn fairly often), Asran deals more damage on successful bow shots than you do, and he can heal 1d8+1 vs your shots doing 1d8 each, so you'd need either a crit or some really lucky rolls. Zevox Yeah, and that's not really a strategy. Plus, my chances of dropping you in 20 rounds is pretty slim (they're only scrolls of expeditious retreat...10 rounds each). I'ma buy some scrolls of hide from animals. That'll help vs. dire bats. I'm not the surrendering type...I'll try anything. But this battle stank of run-and-shoot-to-no-effect, so I saved myself and Iced the frustration.
MindWandererB 05-26-06, 06:32 PM	Ba'al of the Grave vs. Micah Ashald is up. Sloppy tactics on both party's parts, more so for one than the other. More exciting than I expected. Which isn't saying much.
MitzaVolchenko 05-26-06, 06:54 PM	MQ's are up: Creole (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9251416#post9251416) Lantash (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=643963) Laffinger (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=643926) Post at will ;) @my PL's tactics for Zwei and Sliver via PM. @my Fighters tactics received froma bevy of you...haven't sorted them all out yet.
Book5 05-26-06, 08:10 PM	Ba'al of the Grave vs. Micah Ashald is up. wait... You might have pulled this off with a bit more HP or damage output. and Ba'al's hit points are added up wrong (19, not 12). Woops! Since his defaults also say "When in doubt - conserve equipment," that's what I'll do. DRAT! Well, by my calculations (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?u=satisfaction&limit=on) you made the right call regarding expendables.
Salrantol 05-26-06, 08:47 PM	Something is indeed not right. The Forgery skill let's you bring in more allies, not more powerful ones! .... The forgery description clearly says "more allies" and this is what it does. You can claim that the forgery description "says 'more allies'", because it does, but you can't claim it "clearly says 'more allies'", in the sense you mean it because it doesn't. This player is not the first one to make the mistake of interpreting that rule in that way. In fact, I have mentioned to Pitlords (you) that Laffinger the Slight was miniquesting for a dire wolf, which quest was posted (again by you) under ECL 3, and never did you bother to mention that such a reward is untenable. Should it be formally ruled (and the posted rule clarified, with something to the effect of "...for purposes of CA limits, not AECL or ACR limits....") I request permission to exchange the reward of this quest for another ECL3-appropriate reward, since you've also proposed a 1-quest-per-level limit, and rework the character to eliminate the far-more-than-now-necessary focus on Forgery.
Ariel23 05-26-06, 10:42 PM	Evaine vs Monsters is done The mapper only lists the red and blue dots, but not those of players 3-6.Looks pretty straightforward, thanks. I was worried at first because Evaine's only protection from Energy is HP. It's kind of too bad you didn't roll more salamanders for a closer fight. The dots not showing up is odd.
Traevanon 05-26-06, 11:06 PM	Zwei (MitzaVolchenko) vs Kendal (Papapeperoni) is ready to begin. Tactics recieved, initiative and setup is complete. I will do as much as I can before I leave on holiday tomorrow, but if I cant finish it will likely be done on Monday night / Tuesday morning. Rather than holding the fight until the end as I usually do I will post the fight at crucial intervals in case someone spots a critical error. Just as I have not posted the tactics of the fighters, I cannot accept tactical advice from the combatants in the middle of the match as both gladiators are not likely to have the same opportunity to adjust to developments. Good luck to both of you. Edit: Complete to round 5. Going to leave it there for now. Give it a look if you get a chance.
Zevox 05-27-06, 01:58 AM	Well, I've done all of Zero vs Loquan I'm going to tonight - need a break to preserve that precious sanity (I get the feeling the Dice Gods are having a good laugh at my expense right now). Edited for the pointed out errors, and it now took a full 17 rounds for Loquan & co to see anything. Check for errors if you wish. @ Waywreth - (Please read this after examining the fight.) I don't suppose I could convince you to concede this one? I don't know about you, but its pretty obvious to me at this point that it'll take a miracle for you to win. Loquan could be right next to Zero and never see him even after a snipe so long as he has cover, and since you're putzing at 10'/round when double-moving you'll never negate that cover. Plus I'm keeping that first Ego Whip damage/save roll, so you'd need max damage and failed save on a second to take him out (presuming you get a chance at either). And the summon roll is kept, so when it comes into being it'll be one Hippogriff lasting 5 rounds that can never catch Zero. Which leaves you with Aroz's flames as your only hope, and I'm sure you can see how likely that is to work out. I understand if you don't want to, but this is one terribly slow and irritating fight, so I had to ask. Zevox
KerlanRayne 05-27-06, 05:25 AM	Ariel just pointed out another mistake, a rule that apparently neither you nor I know: if you have no PP, you can't be psionically focused! Given the choice between using Offensive Precognition or using psionic focus, I would choose the focus. My tactics were impossible, since they had Zero refocusing with no PP left. Since it was my mistake, though, I'll understand whichever choice you make--but for your own sanity, I think saving the PP will make the fight go faster.While it is true that you can't be focused with no power points, in your fight you still have some. Just because you use up your 1/3 pp you still have 2/3 left over, you just aren't allowed to use them. So unless you have very few power points, it's unlikely you will actually run out. KerlanRayne
Traevanon 05-27-06, 07:31 AM	I have come upon another problem. Zwei wishes to use Alchemist Fire in melee (I assume to avoid missile deflection). I've done my best to figure out how it aught to work if it does, but I'm not really even sure it aught to work at all. Anyhow that's where I'm going to pause the fight for now. I probably could finish it (I have plenty of time yet) but I have to get a solid answer before I proceed.
TheMagister 05-27-06, 07:57 AM	I have come upon another problem. Zwei wishes to use Alchemist Fire in melee (I assume to avoid missile deflection). I've done my best to figure out how it aught to work if it does, but I'm not really even sure it aught to work at all. Anyhow that's where I'm going to pause the fight for now. I probably could finish it (I have plenty of time yet) but I have to get a solid answer before I proceed. Well, it's pretty simple. Everyone is automatically proficient in grenade-like weapons, so no non-proficiency penalty. Alchemist's fire is a thrown weapon, and provokes AoOs. Alchemist's fire is not an unusually massive ranged weapon or a ranged weapon generated by a spell effect, so it CAN be deflected by deflect arrows. The act of deflection does not break the vial (breaking the vial would release the contents and constitute a "hit", and defeats the purpose of deflect arrows). Alchemist's fire is not a "weapon-like object" in my opinion; it more closely resembles a potion bottle, so retrieving it is a move action (the "retrieve a stored item" action) that provokes AoOs. Grenade-like weapons have a range increment of 10', so unless you're in melee, you ALWAYS take a -2 to hit someone 10' away with one (0'-9', 10'-19', etc.). I personally HATE this interpretation of the rule, but it's technically true. So, in my opinion, Zwei would draw the alkyfire (and provoke an AoO), throw it (provoking another AoO), and then have it deflected (if she hit with it) by her opponent, which would frustrate the heck out of her. Hope this helps, or helps you form your own judgement. TM
TheMagister 05-27-06, 08:03 AM	Well, it's pretty simple. Everyone is automatically proficient in grenade-like weapons, so no non-proficiency penalty. Alchemist's fire is a thrown weapon, and provokes AoOs. Alchemist's fire is not an unusually massive ranged weapon or a ranged weapon generated by a spell effect, so it CAN be deflected by deflect arrows. The act of deflection does not break the vial (breaking the vial would release the contents and constitute a "hit", and defeats the purpose of deflect arrows). Alchemist's fire is not a "weapon-like object" in my opinion; it more closely resembles a potion bottle, so retrieving it is a move action (the "retrieve a stored item" action) that provokes AoOs. Grenade-like weapons have a range increment of 10', so unless you're in melee, you ALWAYS take a -2 to hit someone 10' away with one (0'-9', 10'-19', etc.). I personally HATE this interpretation of the rule, but it's technically true. So, in my opinion, Zwei would draw the alkyfire (and provoke an AoO), throw it (provoking another AoO), and then have it deflected (if she hit with it) by her opponent, which would frustrate the heck out of her. Hope this helps, or helps you form your own judgement. TM Wait a minute. I just reread your post, and I think I jumped right past your intent. Zwei wishes to hold the alkyfire in her hand and smash it into the other guy without throwing it, right? Whoa, that is a good one. ... Well, alkyfire is meant to be thrown. Using it in melee would be like stabbing someone with an arrow. -4 non-proficiency penalty. It would still be a touch attack. If it hits, it would deal 1d6 to the person hit and splash damage to the person hitting with it. In my opinion, I would use the DMG's "damage to specific parts of the body" rule for the hitter. I forget where it is, but I'll look it up later after I finish some work I have to do (you know, at work). Basically, the hitter would suffer a -2 to all attacks made with that hand due to the burns. I don't remember exactly, but I think the hitter would get a reflex save to avoid that particular penalty. Poke around in your DMG...I'll find it for you when I get back. Good question. This is DEFINITELY a "pitlord discretion" kind of thing, and neither party could (justifiably) argue with you as long as you made a halfway fair decision on the matter. TM
MitzaVolchenko 05-27-06, 09:41 AM	Wait a minute. I just reread your post, and I think I jumped right past your intent. Zwei wishes to hold the alkyfire in her hand and smash it into the other guy without throwing it, right? Whoa, that is a good one. ... Well, alkyfire is meant to be thrown. Using it in melee would be like stabbing someone with an arrow. -4 non-proficiency penalty. It would still be a touch attack. If it hits, it would deal 1d6 to the person hit and splash damage to the person hitting with it. In my opinion, I would use the DMG's "damage to specific parts of the body" rule for the hitter. I forget where it is, but I'll look it up later after I finish some work I have to do (you know, at work). Basically, the hitter would suffer a -2 to all attacks made with that hand due to the burns. I don't remember exactly, but I think the hitter would get a reflex save to avoid that particular penalty. Poke around in your DMG...I'll find it for you when I get back. Good question. This is DEFINITELY a "pitlord discretion" kind of thing, and neither party could (justifiably) argue with you as long as you made a halfway fair decision on the matter. TM Asked Huan before I submitted tactics. He ruled that it was melee touch attack. No non-proficiency penalty. The rules simply assume that nobody wants to take the splash damage, but Zwei doesn't care. A note for Traevanon...on a miss you have two choices, it doesn't break because I missed or it breaks and does splash damage. A direct hit requires it to be a successful attack roll other wise 1 dmg. Yes, str does apply. In the case of being stuck in grapple for zwei, if she has an alch fire in her hand, hit with it. The first failed grapple attempt should have had Zwei drawing a second alch fire as part of movement. Also, Kendal deals damage in Round 4 on successful grapple. You are doing fine, and I am sorry that I pulled a tactic that has been previously unused in the arena.
DarthVegan 05-27-06, 09:53 AM	I actually won a fight...incredible. @MindwandererB: Somehow I was under the impression the 1/3 rule started after the shutdown...oh well. Sorry about the mix up.
waywreth 05-27-06, 10:42 AM	Well, I've done all of Zero vs Loquan I'm going to tonight - need a break to preserve that precious sanity (I get the feeling the Dice Gods are having a good laugh at my expense right now). Edited for the pointed out errors, and it now took a full 17 rounds for Loquan & co to see anything. Check for errors if you wish. @ Waywreth - (Please read this after examining the fight.) I don't suppose I could convince you to concede this one? Sure, Loquan will concede. And MindWandererB - I will admit you have a well designed character, but driving pitlords crazy on a weekly basis is something to consider.
Traevanon 05-27-06, 11:26 AM	Re: Round 4 Hit hit the touch attack, but failed the grapple check, no damage. As far as I'm concerned you still have your first vial of alchemist's fire in your hand. No need to draw another. Am I missing something?
SoulLord 05-27-06, 11:41 AM	What is the grapple check again for?
MitzaVolchenko 05-27-06, 11:57 AM	Re: Round 4 Hit hit the touch attack, but failed the grapple check, no damage. As far as I'm concerned you still have your first vial of alchemist's fire in your hand. No need to draw another. Am I missing something? Point withe drawing a second was that I only had one in order to be able to deflect should he have been trying to take an invis sniper shot at me all unawares like ;) No worries either way.
Traevanon 05-27-06, 12:07 PM	What is the grapple check again for? To establish a grapple in the first place. (after the touch attack hits)
TheMagister 05-27-06, 12:26 PM	To establish a grapple in the first place. (after the touch attack hits) Confuzzled... But the touch attack was to land the alkyfire hit. Can't have your cake and eat it, too...either you touch to start a grapple or you touch to start a fire. It ain't shocking grasp. TM
MitzaVolchenko 05-27-06, 12:27 PM	PL's note the new thread for posting a profile of yourself! Post your stuff here! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=643948)
SoulLord 05-27-06, 12:32 PM	To establish a grapple in the first place. (after the touch attack hits) I think I'm also getting a bit confused if you want send me a pm and I'll send you my msn account. that way we can sort it out better
Traevanon 05-27-06, 01:53 PM	Sorry, it was two different actions. Kendal was trying to start a grapple and hit, but failed the grapple check (thus dealing no damage), then Zwei tried to swing her vial of Alchemist's Fire and missed her touch attack (thus also dealing no damage). I wanted to pause at round 9 again because there was a successful pin in round 8 and my reading of the pin rules (including looking at the FaQ, Errata and Rules of the Game articles) indicates that a pin only lasts one round unlike a grapple that lasts until broken. Some people play it differently... I didnt want to get too far ahead.
Zevox 05-27-06, 01:54 PM	Sure, Loquan will concede. In that case, the fight is done. While it is true that you can't be focused with no power points, in your fight you still have some. Just because you use up your 1/3 pp you still have 2/3 left over, you just aren't allowed to use them. So unless you have very few power points, it's unlikely you will actually run out. KerlanRayne Actually, he really would have 0 pp left. Zero literally has only 1pp - hes a 1st-level Psychic Warrior with just enough wisdom modifier to gain a single bonus power point. If he uses it, he loses his focus. Zevox
Book5 05-27-06, 02:13 PM	Asked Huan before I submitted tactics. He ruled that it was melee touch attack. No non-proficiency penalty. The rules simply assume that nobody wants to take the splash damage, but Zwei doesn't care. Far be it from me to contradict anyone, but my :twocents: is that (while the non-proficiency modifer does not need to be applied) there is a "improvised weapon" modifer that may apply in this case. Thats a -4 as well. With both its -8 (the classic "board with a nail in it" as a "pick" x4! scenario). I will however bow to the simplicity of the answer "its a weapon made to break easy - and that holds true of its 'provisation' in melee" - Huan logic. Further - as you must have a hand to grapple - and since you are not able to apply the damage of the sword in your offhand when you grapple... I do not think you can start a grapple and apply the alkyfire. You may use the "light melee weapon" as an attack in a grapple. You may touch attack and break the bottle over teh head, but not start a grapple and apply the damage from the alkyfire with the same touch attack.
TheMagister 05-27-06, 02:47 PM	The improvised weapon mod is the one that I was meaning. Thanks Book. TM
MindWandererB 05-27-06, 02:49 PM	While it is true that you can't be focused with no power points, in your fight you still have some. Just because you use up your 1/3 pp you still have 2/3 left over, you just aren't allowed to use them. So unless you have very few power points, it's unlikely you will actually run out. You didn't read the fight, did you? Zero only has 1 PP, and he used it (1/3 of 1, rounded up, is 1). So he should have lost his focus at that point. And MindWandererB - I will admit you have a well designed character, but driving pitlords crazy on a weekly basis is something to consider.Yeah, I realize that now. Although thrallherds are no easier to deal with--they turn every fight into an FFA, except that the PL doesn't get extra credits. I'll put a note on Zero's character sheet encouraging them to use some sort of shorthand, and not annotate & map every single round, if it's obvious that there's no point in doing so. And as I've said, as he goes up in level, he'll actually be easier to deal with than, say, some (all?) of Cat's characters of the same ECL.
Traevanon 05-27-06, 03:00 PM	Okay, the fight is over, there is plenty of time to edit it if there are problems. Good match. I'll finish up the comments and whatnot later.
TheMagister 05-28-06, 07:15 AM	Okay, the fight is over, there is plenty of time to edit it if there are problems. Good match. I'll finish up the comments and whatnot later. It was a good match, and well run to boot. I only have one or two comments, mostly directed at Papa. @Papapepperoni: Further - DUDE!! Use your flurry of blows in grapples to get yourself two grapple checks a round! Especially since you're level 5 and the penalty is only -1! :dancin: Using FoB, you could have pinned Zwei, and "used her weapon against herself" with an opposed grapple check ("Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself!"), and that would've just been damn funny. I guess that's it. Good fight! TM
DSugui 05-28-06, 10:37 AM	Alana Chu (barrel_master) vs. Lyria (graymocker) is up HERE Not really a fight, tough.
Ariel23 05-28-06, 01:48 PM	Alchemist's fire is not an unusually massive ranged weapon or a ranged weapon generated by a spell effect, so it CAN be deflected by deflect arrows. The act of deflection does not break the vial (breaking the vial would release the contents and constitute a "hit", and defeats the purpose of deflect arrows). This is not RAW, though. The only thing I am aware of in the RAW is that an expendable missile has a 50% chance to break. Might be worth considering. (Now, if the opponent had "Snatch Arrows," or Gloves of Snaring that would be a different story.) Personally, I don't agree with these vials automatically breaking on any hit. If you threw it at a gelatinous cube (water elemental, etc), it would be like throwing a glass bottle at jello. And there is the fact that anything automatically makes its saving throw with a 20. At the least, 5% of all vials would not detonate. I always did range as 0-10 = -0, 11-20 = -2, etc. It's kind of odd to do it as 0-9, 10-19, and so forth. To me, if you have a range of "110 feet" and your target is at 110 feet...then that target is within range.
MindWandererB 05-28-06, 02:05 PM	I always did range as 0-10 = -0, 11-20 = -2, etc. It's kind of odd to do it as 0-9, 10-19, and so forth. To me, if you have a range of "110 feet" and your target is at 110 feet...then that target is within range.PHB, p. 114, middle of the right column. "...an arrow from a shotbow (range increment 60 feet) can strike at an enemy 59 feet away or closer with no penalty. However, each full range increment imposes a cumulative -2 penalty on the attack roll."
King Uther 05-28-06, 02:11 PM	@FFA I will be running the fight today, probably within the next couple of hours.
Salrantol 05-28-06, 02:30 PM	@King Uther: Do you mean Hunter? Because it's not an FFA, it's a Hunter fight. Enoch (Salrantol) => Dameon (Huan) => Destra (Zevox) => Valek (DSugui) : King Uther [Hunter] [Week2]
Vathelokai 05-28-06, 08:39 PM	Kraknol vs Gaston Dar'ath is up over here. Very fast fight.
King Uther 05-28-06, 09:02 PM	Hunter fight up: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9266686&postcount=629) One character ran, one got ganged up on, and the luckiest person won. There may be some issues, mostly with interpretation. Let me know.
waywreth 05-28-06, 10:33 PM	Kraknol vs Gaston Dar'ath is up over here. Very fast fight. If Gaston casts defensively and fails, he does not provoke an AoO, but loses the pp. That being said, the attack by Kraknol kills him on Kraknol's turn anyway. Also - thanks for running it.
DSugui 05-28-06, 10:34 PM	Hunter fight up: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9266686&postcount=629) One character ran, one got ganged up on, and the luckiest person won. There may be some issues, mostly with interpretation. Let me know. Thanks for the run. A very exciting fight, indeed. There are some issues, though. First, tactical ones. I appreciate that you followed my tactics and made Valek stay, or try to stay, at range all times. But, in order to avoid charges, Valek should run down to the inner rim and back again. Since the stairs are difficult terrain, the wolves couldn't charge, and would only get AoO - and even if Valek didn't retreat. Second, the burst ability is a Supernatural ability, and takes a standart action to activate. Besides its duration is 3 turns. As I said in my tactics, I really didn't expect Valek to win this fight. But if there is a chance of him to get a better position, I would like to take it. I realize the others may have other issues, and it can he hellish to correct or rerun the fight, but if you have the opportunity, please take my comments in consideration.
Zevox 05-28-06, 11:22 PM	@ KU - I won't ask for an edit or rerun on such a fight, but if you do, theres two very significant things to note on Destra's end: Destra's tactics were to use Produce Flame against Valek, throwing at him until and unless she could get into melee (at which point she would melee touch him with the flames, only falling back on the spear after running out of those). Thats why she saved those 2 spell levels. She didn't want to melee with her spear unless she ran out of those - Valek's AC is too high for that. I also asked that she ignore the others and concentrate only on Valek until he was down - the only thing she was to do is send the wolves to delay Dameon. She gets no bonus to her rewards for beating anyone else - actually she gives her opponents the rewards if she does! - so fighting them is a bad move all around (shes in danger from thier attacks, and stands to gain nothing from it while Valek is still alive). With tossing Produce Flame she could accomplish this (120' range is hard to avoid). Edit: Actually, one other problem. Enoch can't use Alter Self due to lacking the necessary modifier of Knowledge (Local). Zevox
Salrantol 05-28-06, 11:31 PM	@King Uther: I believe the rewards would be as follows (so as to save you time): Enoch: 1200 XP + 400 XP Dameon + 400 XP Destra + 400 XP Valek = 2500 XP - 4.167% = 2395 XP 1200 gp + 400 gp Dameon + (400 gp Destra + 25% = 500 gp) + 400 gp Valek = 2500 gp - 4.167% = 2395 gp Dameon: 400 XP + 12.5% = 450 XP 400 gp + 12.5% = 450 gp Destra: 400 XP - 20.83% = 317 XP 400 gp - 20.83% = 300 gp Valek: 400 XP + 12.5% = 450 XP 400 gp + 12.5% = 450 gp Dameon was slain by Destra (while Enoch's target). Destra was slain by Enoch. Valek was slain by Destra's companion (while Enoch's target). Edit: corrected formula's as per Zevox's clarification.
Zevox 05-28-06, 11:42 PM	The * signifies that I'm not sure how ally bonuses count in a fight like this. I outlined it in my tactics. Ally bonuses get distributed evenly among the player's opponents. Destra's wolves 25% is divided by 3 opponents, so everyone gains +8.333% from her, and Enoch's 12.5% is distributed evenly among his 3 giving everyone a +4.166% bonus from him. The losses and bonuses recieved by Destra and Enoch are added together for each, so Destra gets -20.833% (-25%+4.166%), Enoch gets -4.167% (-12.5%+8.333%), and Dameon and Valek get +12.5% each (+8.333% + 4.1666%). And this is after giving them bonuses for slain enemies. Which by the way, I believe Destra would get the bonus for Valek. She is still alive when he falls, and since the way we've always done it was that an unconscious-but-not-dead character with still living allies hasn't lost until they're dead since thier allies can yet kill thier enemies before they actually die (which BTW would mean that Enoch still has to kill Destra to win if an edit/rerun gets done), and since Destra's ally did do so, I believe she would still get that bonus. Zevox
DSugui 05-29-06, 12:19 AM	Neidr Bresent (bgt) vs. Eraca Moralta (Zevox) is up HERE No surprises here. A fun fight, nonetheless...
Salrantol 05-29-06, 12:24 AM	I went by the rules listed in the Rules to determine where I gave credit. It would certainly be fair to award those points to Destra, and I would not contest it. My reasoning was based on...Hunter Fights: These work similar to All vs All Fights with the difference that every character has a target assigned. The number of gladiators is either 3 or 4. Rules: In a Hunter Fight, everyone has a target which is determined by the order characters are listed in the Pairings Post: A -> B -> C -> D -> A. You may attack any Character but you will only get rewards for defeatedx targets. Once you have defeated your target, you will immedeately and automatically get your target's target. Rewards are based on Last Man Standing and the number of defeated targets: Last Man Standing gains Winner rewards, plus 1 loser rewards for every target defeated. All others gain Loser rewards, plus 1 loser rewards for every target defeated. Power-Rating Calculation: Base PR of Defeated Target/Character*100 (each individually) minus (if killed) Character/Hunter*100. xDefinition 'defeated': target is dead, unconscious, or helpless with no chance to rejoin on its own. To receive rewards this state must still apply at the end of the fight. If your target gets anyhow revived again during the fight, you get your original target reassigned and no target rewards until it is defeated (again)Using the bolded text, it appears that while Destra has not fully "lost", and her allies can still fight, she has been "defeated" according to the hunter fight rules and her target becomes Enoch's. Again, I'm not blindly following this, I just looked up the rule because I didn't know it, and if it's ruled otherwise, I'll definitely not contest it. Thank you Zevox for the clarification on ally penalties/bonuses. In my post above I have corrected the formulae.
Zevox 05-29-06, 12:26 AM	Neidr Bresent (bgt) vs. Eraca Moralta (Zevox) is up HERE No surprises here. A fun fight, nonetheless... Very nice. Slightly strange tactic, but it didn't have much chance of working to begin with, less so with Eraca's wards up. And no need to worry about that extra round: as it turns out an error earlier makes it necessary anyway. Eraca is only a 3rd level wizard, so her magic missiles only do 2d4+2 damage, not 3d4+3. Keeping rolls she does 5 damage with the missiles rather than 8, so Neidr had another 3 hp for Eraca to shoot through, only 1 of which would be gotten by PBS. Thanks for running the fight! :) Zevox
Ariel23 05-29-06, 01:05 AM	PHB, p. 114, middle of the right column. "...an arrow from a shotbow (range increment 60 feet) can strike at an enemy 59 feet away or closer with no penalty. However, each full range increment imposes a cumulative -2 penalty on the attack roll."I knew that, I just don't do it. This is all moot anyway, you're either at 105', 110', or 115'. What's 109 feet? :thinks: "What's the range on this cannon, private?" "2 miles, sir." "How far is that target?" "2 miles, sir." "Then why aren't you shooting at it?" "Because it's out of range, sir."
DSugui 05-29-06, 11:18 AM	Izumi (Macbrea) vs. Tivik (mattes) is up HERE Short and bloody fight.
Zevox 05-29-06, 02:27 PM	Aerryl Nalladar vs Sliver Firebug is up. Two Great Reknown characters go at it, and only one comes out with her winning streak intact. @ My FFAers - I'll start the fight tonight and hopefully have it done tomorrow afternoon, but since I have to work both this evening and tomorrow evening it may be a little late. Just giving you fair warning there. Zevox
MindWandererB 05-29-06, 03:03 PM	Aerryl Nalladar vs Sliver Firebug is up. Two Great Reknown characters go at it, and only one comes out with her winning streak intact.Yeah, that's more or less what I figured, after the memorized Faerie Fires failed. Hindsight is a beautiful thing, but keep in mind that I had no way of knowing how you would rule pinpointing the source of magic missiles. Without that, faerie fire was my only chance. The disfavor from the dice gods hurt big time.
Zevox 05-29-06, 03:08 PM	Yeah, that's more or less what I figured, after the memorized Faerie Fires failed. Hindsight is a beautiful thing, but keep in mind that I had no way of knowing how you would rule pinpointing the source of magic missiles. Without that, faerie fire was my only chance. The disfavor from the dice gods hurt big time. True enough, though your listen vs her MS, especially when she isn't deliberately moving at half speed, is nothing to sneeze at. *shrugs* As you say though, hindsight is 20/20. Zevox
DSugui 05-29-06, 03:36 PM	Biko (Biko111) => Koan (graymocker) => Ten (Soullord)is up HERE One didn't show up, the other two got in a archery duel.
Traevanon 05-29-06, 08:09 PM	DSugui, If you find that you cannot get the match done in time (apparently you lost my tactics, I have forwarded a copy of them) I would rather just surrender than have it held over again. I have things I need to have purchased before the 3FC starts (Wand of CLW, 3 Scrolls of Longstrider) so that I can survive 3 matches in series. Thanks (Edit: I didnt mean to sound accusatory. It doesnt matter to me who lost what, only that they are gone and the hour is now late. Hopefully there is still time to run the match.)
MitzaVolchenko 05-29-06, 08:23 PM	Ico vs. Profo (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9274914&postcount=633) is done. Profo please check the prison.
Traevanon 05-29-06, 10:18 PM	Zwei vs Kendal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9238589&postcount=620) This one's in the books.
NiQil 05-29-06, 10:48 PM	Hunter fight up: (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9266686&postcount=629) One character ran, one got ganged up on, and the luckiest person won. There may be some issues, mostly with interpretation. Let me know. I doubt any of the players will ask for a rerun on this basis (though they would be perfectly in their rights to do so), but the wrong map was used for this fight. In the absence of the new Sewer map, the old Cavern map is still used for Hunter fights. Just thought I should point that out....didn't check to see if any of the parties involved had tactics that were map-dependant.
MindWandererB 05-30-06, 01:01 AM	Ico vs. Profo (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9274914&postcount=633) is done. Profo please check the prison.Although I mentioned it in the Prison: Mitza, Profo is not a fundamentally illegal character. There are a couple of minor mistakes, but pre-CoCo alignment changes do not require credits, nor do ex-monks lose any class features. This fight should still be run.
MitzaVolchenko 05-30-06, 01:10 AM	Although I mentioned it in the Prison: Mitza, Profo is not a fundamentally illegal character. There are a couple of minor mistakes, but pre-CoCo alignment changes do not require credits, nor do ex-monks lose any class features. This fight should still be run. I will look it over again. I disagree with the character's existence in a very fundamental way, but I will give it a second look. It is true that the character does not lose monk benefits, but it does lose the rage ability for becoming a monk. I do not agree that it can be chaotic again while still at the same level as it became lawful. At the least that is shady. If indeed our rules support this sort of build, I will take it to the Elder Council for immediate correction. That particular cheese stinks worse than most.
NiQil 05-30-06, 01:20 AM	I will look it over again. I disagree with the character's existence in a very fundamental way, but I will give it a second look. It is true that the character does not lose monk benefits, but it does lose the rage ability for becoming a monk. I do not agree that it can be chaotic again while still at the same level as it became lawful. At the least that is shady. If indeed our rules support this sort of build, I will take it to the Elder Council for immediate correction. That particular cheese stinks worse than most. I would agree with MWB here. It is absolutely possible to become chaotic on the level in which you started lawful....otherwise you would have to lose a level if your alignment changed. Level 1: Chaotic alignment, take a level in barbarian. Sometime during level 1: Switch from a chaotic alignment to a lawful alignment, thereby losing the barbarian rage ability. Level 2: Lawful alignment, take a level in monk. Sometime during level 2 before arriving in Gladius: Switch from a lawful alignment back to a chaotic alignment, thereby losing the ability to level as a monk, but regaining the rage ability. Arrive in Gladius: Chaotic alignment, barbarian 1/monk 1 Perfectly by the book and 100% legal. Cheesy? That is for others to decide. But it is perfectly legal.
MindWandererB 05-30-06, 01:27 AM	I will look it over again. I disagree with the character's existence in a very fundamental way, but I will give it a second look. It is true that the character does not lose monk benefits, but it does lose the rage ability for becoming a monk. I do not agree that it can be chaotic again while still at the same level as it became lawful. At the least that is shady. If indeed our rules support this sort of build, I will take it to the Elder Council for immediate correction. That particular cheese stinks worse than most. I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. Character starts off as a neutral barbarian. They change their outlook on life during the course of their progress from 0 to 1000 XP (or in this case, from 1000 to 3000 XP), becoming lawful before they get there--perhaps their tribe is destroyed and they are taken in by a monastery. No longer capable of taking levels as a barbarian, the character chooses to be trained as a monk. The character, now Bbn1/Mnk1, undergoes some more outlook changes (perhaps they learned that the monks aren't all they're cracked up to be), and their alignment changes all the way from lawful to chaotic by the time they hit 3200 XP. I've seen characters in TT games undergo frequent alignment changes like this without the ulterior motive of qualifying for classes--there's no reason why this should be illegal. Cheesy, perhaps, but totally within the rules. What would you tell a TT player whose character history--in game, even---was like I described? "Sorry, you can't change alignment like that, it's too cheesy?" Whatever happened to "alignment is a tool, not a straightjacket?" Edit: NiQil beat me to the analysis. Meh.
MitzaVolchenko 05-30-06, 01:35 AM	Change Alignment: You can spend credits to change your character's alignment. For every step your new alignment is away from your previous one, you have to pay 5°. Likewise, you can play a race with an aligment entry of "always" that has a different alignment than the entry suggests. You have to pay 5° for every step the alignment differs from the one in the entry. Please point me to where it says that you can flip flop your alignment all over the place to catch as many classes as possible? Call me crazy but I would think the 'always' alignment requirements might be covered with this. I will take some time and run the fight when I am done fine toothed combing the character sheet. However, I do want to see where it is ruled that alignment shifts in creation are free. I know they aren't for races, I don't see why they would be for classes.
MindWandererB 05-30-06, 01:43 AM	Please point me to where it says that you can flip flop your alignment all over the place to catch as many classes as possible? Call me crazy but I would think the 'always' alignment requirements might be covered with this. I will take some time and run the fight when I am done fine toothed combing the character sheet. However, I do want to see where it is ruled that alignment shifts in creation are free. I know they aren't for races, I don't see why they would be for classes.I believe the CoCo rules are currently silent on the issue. Since there are no house rules about pre-CoCo alignment changes, then the normal D&D rules apply, and those rules allow it. As you quoted, only races, not classes, with "always" requirements need credits to change into something else pre-activation, as do alignment changes post-creation. Technically, I suppose you could even create a character with an "always" alignment race who used to be of a different alignment but isn't anymore (like a red dragon who's currently chaotic evil, but is an ex-paladin), and it wouldn't cost credits unless we add a rule saying it does.
NiQil 05-30-06, 01:51 AM	Please point me to where it says that you can flip flop your alignment all over the place to catch as many classes as possible? Call me crazy but I would think the 'always' alignment requirements might be covered with this. I will take some time and run the fight when I am done fine toothed combing the character sheet. However, I do want to see where it is ruled that alignment shifts in creation are free. I know they aren't for races, I don't see why they would be for classes. And I will challenge the opposite...can you show me where it states that your alignment must be static prior to entrance into Gladius? The clause you have quotes is referring to once the character is in play here in Gladius. Anything that happens prior to the character arriving here (i.e. being built) as far as alignment is concerned is perfectly by the RAW and by the Rules (thread). As MWB stated, this happens quite often in TT games (in mine, anyway). Maybe not within the timeframe in question (from one level to the next), but definitely in a similar situation. In one game in particular, there was a character that went from in-it for himself chaotic neutral rogue to a "finding nature" lawful neutral druid to a zealot lawful good paladin all within the span of 7 levels of adventuring. As I stated in the Prison...if this were not allowed, all of my characters would require credit expenditure, since I have done the same thing. Feel free to continue to solicit opinions if you like, but the character is legal, as far as the reported violation is concerned.
MitzaVolchenko 05-30-06, 02:23 AM	So Sliver could have been an assassin as long as I put her back to NG prior to her entrance into the arena? Rule however you like. I am over the discussion of it. I have stated what I will do. You may of course feel free to say and think any thing you like. Good night.
MindWandererB 05-30-06, 03:21 AM	There are now less than 21 hours left before the board snapshot, meaning that any fights, quests, and character updates that aren't done by then will have to wait for the reload in about two weeks. They can be posted, but they'll have to be re-posted later, and they'll have different post numbers. Currently outstanding fights and miniquests (including ones posted but not completed): LEVEL 3 FIGHTS Lantash (bluemage55) miniquests to join CEF : MitzaVolchenko [Miniquest] Creole (Creole) miniquests to a Worg ally : MitzaVolchenko [Miniquest] Laffinger (Salrantol) miniquest for fun : MitzaVolchenko [Miniquest] Annalina (Zevox) and Indrithia (Zevox) miniquest to join EHTC : Waywreth [Miniquest] Uhinoskeli (Creole) vs. Osiris (Iced) vs. Rinzwind (Anaconda) : Zevox [All vs All] Profo (Biko111) vs. Ivo Everber (bgt) : MitzaVolchenko LEVEL 4 FIGHTS Enoch (Salrantol) => Dameon (Huan) => Destra (Zevox) => Valek (DSugui) : King Uther [Hunter] [Week2] [Fight] Sećndithas (Sindorin) vs. Unknown Monster : Huan [Monster] LEVEL 5 FIGHTS Tan, Son of Sty (Book5) vs. Little Daisy (DSugui) : MitzaVolchenko Sunstroke (MindWandererB) vs. KazzzAHM (Pittbull) : graymocker LEVEL 6 FIGHT Dronnar Darkjof (DSugui) vs. Alagar (King Uther) : MitzaVolchenko LEVEL 8 FIGHT Anixx the Warbringer (Iced) vs. Unknown Monster : Huan [Fight] LEVEL 9 FIGHTS Sdentch (TheMagister) vs. Unknown Monster : Macbrea [Fight] Nell Leonne (Huan) vs. Cyra Val (Stormwind) : SauroGrenom If you need to pass off your fight to someone else, speak now. Otherwise you'll have to wait until the board reset to post the final version of the fight (with the correct post number), and I imagine things will be pretty chaotic at that point--if the update goes as scheduled, we'll have two days between when the update is final and when pairings are rolled. I can take a fight if someone wants to pass the buck, except for monster fights and multis (although I think all the multis have been at least started).
Macbrea 05-30-06, 08:29 AM	I will be working on my fight when I get home from work. So, noone try and pick it up. The fight is probably going to come down to wether Stendtch can withstand 25 DC 13 will saves.
DSugui 05-30-06, 11:17 AM	Khabil Barukh (Traevanon) vs. Anubis (AnubisR) is up HERE The audience is disappointed on this fight.
SauroGrenom 05-30-06, 11:29 AM	Stormwind and Huan, I got in late lastnight from traveling all weekend long. I was able to get the fight setup finished before sleep overcame me. After work tonight, I'll go home and finish the fight. I just want to let you know where things are at. Sauro
Ariel23 05-30-06, 12:42 PM	I've seen characters in TT games undergo frequent alignment changes like this without the ulterior motive of qualifying for classes--there's no reason why this should be illegal. Cheesy, perhaps, but totally within the rules. What would you tell a TT player whose character history--in game, even---was like I described? "Sorry, you can't change alignment like that, it's too cheesy?" Whatever happened to "alignment is a tool, not a straightjacket?" I will answer this rhetorical question and say "yes, I would tell them they can't do that." 3-4 alignments from 1st - 2nd level is unacceptable RP. It makes a joke of the game. Alignment is not a straightjacket, but allowing someone to change it every session makes it completely meaningless. Basically the player came to the DM and said, "this is the PC/personality I want to play" , the DM approved it, and then as soon as they sat down at the table for their very first session, the PC was played completely differently. IMO, that is not cheesy, that is a mockery. Also, I would say that alignment is a straightjacket in terms of alignment restrictions: either you have the alignment or you don't take the class. D&D no longer has penalties for "violating" your alignment for everyone. Instead, they chose to hard-code those penalties into some classes. It may not be a straightjacket, but it is intended to be restrictive in those cases, otherwise why bother? I wish I had a PHB (or DMG) at work, but changing your alignment 5 times per session cannot be RAW just because someone once said "alignment is not a straightjacket." This would also be RAW: I guess changing alignment is a free action since the RAW don't specify. I will make sure to change mine to True Neutral every time I face someone with "Protection From ___" then back again after the fight. This won't work for a Paladin, but guess what will? I will make a Paladin and become C/E. Then I can stay in the ECL 3 forever, and have 1000000 GP worth of equipment! Eventually once I have my +5 Holy Avenger, Breastplate of Command, Cloak of Resistance +5, Horseshoes of Speed, etc etc I will change back to L/G (I will have plenty of money to pay for the Atonement) then go to ECL 4. At 11th level, I will become a blackguard 11 for free, then switch back to Paladin. There is no Code of Conduct for being a Blackguard, and no listed penalties for leaving the class. By the "RAW" the blackguard can become L/G and retain all abilities. So, at 13th level I would get double CHA to saving throws (unnamed bonus), lay on hands, spells, etc. As long as I use those abilities for L/G Paladin purposes and don't use any of the Evil ones, I won't violate my Code of Conduct for the paladin. And eventually I would have a fiendish horse and a celestial mount. Just because something is not forbidden in the RAW does not make it RAW. Edit: I do mean to argue, but not to sound argumentative. Alignment is basically the gaming equivalent of discussing politics/religion/society all at once. I have never seen more heated debates than over alignment in D&D, although I have seen far fewer in 3/3.5. On the order of 90% fewer. Also, as far as my personal preferences go, as a player, I would not continue to play in the game(s) described by Mindwanderer, or as the DM I wouldn't allow them to happen. By allowing people to do whatever they want whether it makes sense or fits the character or the story or the campaign sends the message to everyone that nothing matters and nothing should be taken seriously except, I guess munchkining. As for NiQil's example: Changing alignment over 7 sessions (and probably within the story) sounds perfectly fine to me. Alignment can be an excellent story element. Those are just my personal beliefs. As for CoCo: the Coliseum is about exploiting the ridiculous. I would not mind seeing alignment rules/guidelines but I can also live without them. A ruling or interpretation in print might be good, though.
Ariel23 05-30-06, 12:54 PM	@MitzaVolchenko If all the bonuses/penalties were correct and the rolls accurate, there's not much to say about this fight. @Riana you got all the luck this time around. Overall you had the edge compounded by seeing him straight off. Please note that your safe distances aren't really that safe, but it worked out well enough as is.I know, but the movement advantage only works about half the time in the CoCo, and I don't expect it to. About the only time that is dependable is when you have double your opponent's move. That seems to work pretty well. @Alathar bad luck and no contingency for starting eye to eye. In the end it was the crit hit that truly finsihed things. I would suggest looking for better AC options that do not require buffing rounds.To the extent that you can support the weight, I would recommend a chain shirt and shield. This will mean that you have a decent default AC. It would also save you PP and 1 round as currently Inertial Armor is not better than real armor.
MindWandererB 05-30-06, 02:33 PM	@Ariel: Suffice it to say that you and I have had some different D&D experiences. I've been in games that move quickly enough that yes, this many alignment changes would be ridiculous--one alignment change from 1000 XP (the character's starting level) to 3000, and then two changes from 3000 to 3200 would mean that the character was changing alignments more than once per session. In games of a normal pace, I wouldn't allow a player to change alignments that quickly--for the first session, I would tell them that they weren't playing the alignment written on their sheet, that the alignment that they were playing ws incompatible with their class, and would they like to redesign the character to better mesh with the personality they were playing? However, I have played in games that crawled, XP-wise. It could potentially be multiple sessions in between these alignments, in which there was a lot of RP and no XP gained (not all DMs award RP experience). I have seen characters that did exactly what is described here (except without the goal of qualifying for classes), with multiple and drastic alignment changes over a long period of time, but a short range of XP. This can especially happen given a lot of downtime--the most frequent alignment-changing character I've ever seen had been a part of the DM's campaign world for over a millennium, with sometimes centuries of downtime, or even RP-time, and no XP gained, but with a changing alignment. This would also be RAW: I guess changing alignment is a free action since the RAW don't specify. I will make sure to change mine to True Neutral every time I face someone with "Protection From ___" then back again after the fight. This won't work for a Paladin, but guess what will? I will make a Paladin and become C/E. Then I can stay in the ECL 3 forever, and have 1000000 GP worth of equipment!No, these would not be RAW. There's a section in the DMG about rapid alignment changes, and it says you can't do it. It takes time to undergo that kind of change in outlook (and note that XP is not a measure of time). Also, a paladin that becomes Chaotic Evil and then gains enough XP to go up a level must either spend the XP somehow or gain a level in another class.
TheMagister 05-30-06, 06:38 PM	I will be working on my fight when I get home from work. So, noone try and pick it up. The fight is probably going to come down to wether Stendtch can withstand 25 DC 13 will saves. Oh, good LORD. Sigh. TM
Salrantol 05-30-06, 10:19 PM	@Elders: In this fight, there is some question as to who gets the credit for defeating Valek, as he was defeated by Destra's animal companion while Destra was unconscious. There is some discussion a few posts up that includes quotes of the rules for Hunter fights. I would rather like to get Enoch updated from this fight before the boards die if possible, and I would like to know how much XP/gold I've got to work with. Thanks
NiQil 05-30-06, 11:03 PM	@Elders: In this fight, there is some question as to who gets the credit for defeating Valek, as he was defeated by Destra's animal companion while Destra was unconscious. There is some discussion a few posts up that includes quotes of the rules for Hunter fights. I would rather like to get Enoch updated from this fight before the boards die if possible, and I would like to know how much XP/gold I've got to work with. Thanks By my reading, Enoch should be getting credit for all three kills. Dameon was his first target, and was the first one down. That shifted Enoch's target to Destra. Destra was taken down on Enoch's initiative. As soon as that happened, Enoch's target became Valek. This occurs prior to the animal companion attacking, as it is an immediate thing. Since Destra is not around to give commands to the contrary, the wolf attacks Valek, doing Enoch a favor and killing him, giving Enoch credit for the third kill. I'm not the best one to sit here and tell you what rewards you should be getting, but by my reading Enoch gets credit for all three kills.
Zevox 05-31-06, 12:31 AM	Uhinoskeli vs Osiris vs Rinzwind is up. Somewhat predictable, though the Dice Gods sure had thier say in it. Sorry about it being a bit late, but my work schedule was not agreeable this weekend, and my other two fights were rather long ones (both involved sneaks). I'm not sure if I got it up in time, so I'm saving a copy to my laptop. Just so the players know not to worry about losing it. Zevox
MindWandererB 05-31-06, 12:44 AM	Uhinoskeli vs Osiris vs Rinzwind is up. Somewhat predictable, though the Dice Gods sure had thier say in it. Sorry about it being a bit late, but my work schedule was not agreeable this weekend, and my other two fights were rather long ones (both involved sneaks).Unfortunately, you've got a big problem. Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't do Str damage, it causes a Str penalty. Multiple penalties from the same source don't stack. Also, you didn't allow Uhin to teach Pin to his horse, but Pin is a DC 15 trick, which he can accomplish with a +5 modifier. It is, of course illegal, due to the custom feats, but the trick is still valid.
Zevox 05-31-06, 12:52 AM	Unfortunately, you've got a big problem. Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't do Str damage, it causes a Str penalty. Multiple penalties from the same source don't stack. Strange. The description of the spell on the spell list (here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/wizardSpells.html), for instance) refers to it as damage, but the spell description itself calls it a penalty. I suppose it would be what the description calls it though, so you're right. *sigh* Oh well, I'll go back and fix that, switching Osiris to using Chill Touch and crossbow bolts once that first ray hits. Probably won't change the result, since Uhin keeps his bad bow shot rolls, but we'll see. @ Players - That'll get done tomorrow. I need some rest. I apologize again for this being a bit late. Also, you didn't allow Uhin to teach Pin to his horse, but Pin is a DC 15 trick, which he can accomplish with a +5 modifier. It is, of course illegal, due to the custom feats, but the trick is still valid. Mind pointing me to where that can be found? The trick isn't listed with the Handle Animal description, and I know of no place else that lists thier DCs. Correction, found that in the rules thread. There is still the matter of whether or not the horse has the Combat Riding package, however, which would still prevent it. Zevox
King Uther 05-31-06, 01:29 AM	@Salrantol, Zevox, DSugui, Huan While for the most part I feel given the circumstances the fight turned out okay(with over 3 hours of effort), there are a few factors which make me believe a small rerun may be in order. Factor 1: Enoch cannot use Alter Self. His AC would be much lower, and since he fails the first ASF chance shield would be lost as well, making his high AC much less of a factor. Factor 2: Map Change. I could've used the cavern map, and some of the tactics assumed the sewer map. Factor 3: Tactical judging(particularly Destra attacking Dameon, which at the time seemed perfect since Dameon with his high to-hit and damage would easily make the scariest foe for both Destra and Enoch, but Zevox said otherwise) However, the rolls would not change, and thus some things would stay the same. 1. Dameon gets ganged up upon. Dameon's gets one good attack on Destra, but with the wolves and Enoch it is hard for him to stay up. ALthough with the map change it may or may not be easier for Dameon to survive this. 2. Valek has to withdraw or run every round to avoid melee. Even with burst, Valek doesn't gain a lot of distance, and in a map change it would be even worse. 3. Enoch can attack any opponent at will due to mobility, and the only contingency vs the horse deals with ranged combat. If 2 of 4 ask for a rerun, I will grant it. Although with the snapshot being taken it will be hard to get properly updated(I worked 13 hours today and will work 15 tomorrow because at month end work is insane). And looking at the rolls and map, the likely outcome is this: Enoch defeats weakened Dameon(surviving 6 attacks per round is difficult at EL4, and Dameon does it for many rounds which is impressive), Destra's wolves defeat Valek(multiple wolves are killer when tripping and they have the same speed making escape difficult), and due to the now lowered AC and animal companion's speed Destra eventually defeats Enoch(although a few expendables makes it a close call and the tactics say to use them). I leave it up to you.
DSugui 05-31-06, 02:14 AM	Since the sanpshot has already been taken, there is a lot of time to do a rerun if it is the case. Since Valek's chance to win this fight is nigh zero, I don't really care if the fight stays as it is, but I won't complain if it's rerun either.
Salrantol 05-31-06, 05:49 AM	Factor 1: Enoch cannot use Alter Self. His AC would be much lower, and since he fails the first ASF chance shield would be lost as well, making his high AC much less of a factor.I don't understand this factor. Enoch has two abyssal metamorphosis scrolls, which are labelled as arcane, labelled as alter self(troglodyte). He's a cleric with the Magic domain, which allows him to "(u)se scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a wizard of one-half [his] cleric level". A second-level wizard activating a third-level scroll would make a caster level check, as Enoch did. Why can Enoch supposedly not use alter self???? Factor 3: Tactical judging(particularly Destra attacking Dameon, which at the time seemed perfect since Dameon with his high to-hit and damage would easily make the scariest foe for both Destra and Enoch, but Zevox said otherwise)This is debatable. While the tactics did say to ignore him, it doesn't seem to be outside the pitlord's purview to have her attack if he's at very low HP as Enoch is viewed as less of a threat. However, Destra doesn't have the Heal skill to make that judgment, so I agree that she shouldn't take the attack.
Zevox 05-31-06, 12:46 PM	Why can Enoch supposedly not use alter self???? Because doing so requires that he have the approporiate knowledge skill modifier for the creature he wishes to shift into equal to twice that creature's HD. In this case, he requires Knowledge (Local) of +4 or more. His intelligence bonus only grants him a +1 modifier, so its insufficient, and he possesses no ranks to boost that. @ King Uther - Under normal circumstances I wouldn't ever ask for a rerun on a fight like that, but since we are heading into a freeze and as such you can do it at your leisure and it won't impact our ability to participate in the next pairings, I would indeed like to see it rerun if you have the chance. Though I'd also like to reiterate the point about Destra chasing Valek with her spear when my tactics quite specifically ask to immediately cast and throw Produce Flame while trying to close to melee. She won't manage to melee without a lot of luck since hes determined not to allow it, but she may take Valek out earlier that way. Zevox
SauroGrenom 05-31-06, 01:42 PM	Huan and Stormwind, I completed your fight lastnight, so the fight is up.
Zevox 05-31-06, 01:43 PM	The edit of the ECL 3 FFA is up. Result didn't change, but items used on Osiris' end did. Zevox
SauroGrenom 05-31-06, 01:50 PM	I don't understand this factor. Enoch has two abyssal metamorphosis scrolls, which are labelled as arcane, labelled as alter self(troglodyte). He's a cleric with the Magic domain, which allows him to "(u)se scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a wizard of one-half [his] cleric level". A second-level wizard activating a third-level scroll would make a caster level check, as Enoch did. Why can Enoch supposedly not use alter self???? After long discussion in the council it was agreed that in general Alter Self and all the polymorph spells are too potent. As part of the solution we decided on using Knowlege as a prerequisite for the spell. An idea was suggested (I'm not sure where it came from) that a character can only adopt forms that he is familiar with. Since we don't have any other way to dictate what is familiarity, we decided to introduce the knowlege skill requirement that Zevox described. Your knowlege check modifier in the appropreat skill must be equal to or greater than 2x the HD of the creature you are trying to become. So if you want to be a troglodyte, then you must have the necessary knowlege skills to read the scroll.
barrel_master 05-31-06, 01:51 PM	I assume the next pairing will be like a week from now?
Zevox 05-31-06, 02:01 PM	Two weeks, actually. The boards upgrade finishes on June 12th, so the next pairings will be June 14th. Zevox
TheMagister 05-31-06, 06:35 PM	Is Sdentch hard to pitlord, or is it just my rotten luck with my pitlords' lives getting busy as soon as they get her fights? It seems like her last 5 or 6 fights have run late or down to the wire each time! [sorry, Macbrea...you just happen to be the one that my patience runs out on...it's nothing personal.] Sigh. TM
Salrantol 06-01-06, 05:18 AM	After long discussion in the council it was agreed that in general Alter Self and all the polymorph spells are too potent. As part of the solution we decided on using Knowlege as a prerequisite for the spell. An idea was suggested (I'm not sure where it came from) that a character can only adopt forms that he is familiar with. Since we don't have any other way to dictate what is familiarity, we decided to introduce the knowlege skill requirement that Zevox described. Your knowlege check modifier in the appropreat skill must be equal to or greater than 2x the HD of the creature you are trying to become. So if you want to be a troglodyte, then you must have the necessary knowlege skills to read the scroll.I will freely acknowledge that the person to cast a spell from memory needs the requisite knowledge skill, but since someone (obviously with the requisite knowledge skill) scribed a scroll of alter self, specifically for troglodyte, in compliance with the rules for such a scroll, it would seem that that requirement is superfluous and punitive, not to mention unclear in the rules. It seemed to me very much that the requirement for expendables to list the specific form was to take the place of the knowledge requirement.
Macbrea 06-01-06, 07:27 AM	Is Sdentch hard to pitlord, or is it just my rotten luck with my pitlords' lives getting busy as soon as they get her fights? It seems like her last 5 or 6 fights have run late or down to the wire each time! [sorry, Macbrea...you just happen to be the one that my patience runs out on...it's nothing personal.] Sigh. TM In all honesty I probably should remove myself from pitlording. Recently, I haven't had time to do them. I will work on it, save it, and recopy it after the board comes back up. Sorry.
SauroGrenom 06-01-06, 12:16 PM	I will freely acknowledge that the person to cast a spell from memory needs the requisite knowledge skill, but since someone (obviously with the requisite knowledge skill) scribed a scroll of alter self, specifically for troglodyte, in compliance with the rules for such a scroll, it would seem that that requirement is superfluous and punitive, not to mention unclear in the rules. It seemed to me very much that the requirement for expendables to list the specific form was to take the place of the knowledge requirement. I'm sorry to break this to you, but magic domain clerics are a part of the reason this requirement is in place. The ability to gain (even for a short time about as long as a fight) the natural armor, movement modes and extrordinary abilities of a race that typicially has a LA but not being required to actually pay the LA is too good. It must be limited. The ability to gain endless scrolls you cannot craft yourself and have those scrolls automaticilly give you powers that other must pay a LA to gain is too good. It is unbalancing for magic domain clerics to have fewer limits on the spells they cast from scrolls than what a sorcerer will be able to cast from memory. The polymorph series of spells and powers allow a character to gain combat abilities for free when those same abilities carry cost (LA or GP) when given in other ways. Our skills house rule is an attempt to put a cost in place for those abilities gained by polymorph. Scrolls should not allow a character to bypass the limits we have put in place to introduce a cost for having the rewards associated with polymorph and simular effects.
TheMagister 06-01-06, 06:34 PM	In all honesty I probably should remove myself from pitlording. Recently, I haven't had time to do them. I will work on it, save it, and recopy it after the board comes back up. Sorry. If it wouldn't be too much trouble, could you post it when you finish it? I'd like to see it sometime before it's too late to do anything about it. Also, it would be a favor to me if you could keep me updated on the progress you're able to make on it from time to time, by PM or by posting. I don't care (now) if it takes the whole two weeks to finish the fight, as long as you drop me a line and let me know that you're working on it. Reason being, is I'm looking forward to questing Sdentch with Auburn with TelinArtho as soon as the boards come back up, and I don't want to be the one holding everyone back because my fight is held over. Thanks for replying to my little venting post up there. I appreciate it! TM
Book5 06-01-06, 07:20 PM	Sigh. TM You and me both... but actually I know Tan is hard to run. Its all the dogs and cats.. er. Cats? hmmmm.... :idea: but I don't remember sdentch being that hard to run. :rolleyes: been awhile. Maybe its my tactics.. maybe its my opponents tactics!? Hard to say, but they are both certainly an example of extreems. My defaults are thurough... and are all equally viable options. Particularly in this case. Not that I would yell at Mitza, she knows how to pitlord.
TheMagister 06-01-06, 07:28 PM	You bring to mind an adventure I was a part of once. Our characters were approaching the manse of a mad wizard-type. The outside was really spooky with skeletal-looking trees and gloomy skies and overgrown weeks and bushes. Just before we got to the front doors, we heard a sound off to the side of the house, emanating from a locked shed. The sound resembled that of little girls screaming in pain. Being a party of do-gooders, we rushed around the corner of the house and barrelled into the door. We all failed our Str checks to force the locked doors (no rogue, alas!). Bang! we tried again. Bang! the screaming rose in intensity. BANG! and the doors flew open, splintering against their hinges as we tore them off the jamb. As a one, our party fell into a workshed teeming with... ... ...a swarm of half-starved cats. The stink was unbelievable. The noise was deafening and the footing precarious on the slick offal. The claws and teeth were stingingly damaging, as were the Fort saves vs. Filth Fever. It was great. I've never laughed so much at my character getting scratched to death. TM
Book5 06-01-06, 07:42 PM	You guys know that we will have access to the "old boards" after the refresh right? Temporarily the two boards will be stored and that way we can get access to the old posts before the final final final conversion is .. finalized. So nothing "really" goes away if you don't want it to. Aka - Might as well post it now - you can repost it later and you don't have to be all worried about loosing the post. Well, thats what I heard anyway. I can't seem to find that comment in the "questions thread" though.. maybe it was the old one. Maybe I am wrong, can't be certain.
Book5 06-01-06, 07:47 PM	...a swarm of half-starved cats. The stink was unbelievable. The noise was deafening and the footing precarious on the slick offal. The claws and teeth were stingingly damaging, as were the Fort saves vs. Filth Fever. TM oh mag... if I could have a swarm of cats... I mean.. their only 1/3 CR right? Canna I get three for 1 ECL? Nah prolly not, but that would be so funny... just a cat isnt nearly as useful as a dog. But what if my next dog "was a cat" ..... a big cat. A really big cat... call it a cugar.. hmmm.. anything else catlike (somewhere between tabby and tiger)? I gotta go check that.
MindWandererB 06-01-06, 07:56 PM	oh mag... if I could have a swarm of cats... I mean.. their only 1/3 CR right? Canna I get three for 1 ECL?Actually, yes, you can. Remember Fjord and his pack of CR 1/2 dogs? Or heck, go for CR 1/6 monkeys! Customize them with simple weapon proficiency, give them light crossbows, and go to town!
TheMagister 06-01-06, 08:37 PM	Now that stinks to high heaven. =) Monkeys with crossbows. :rolleyes: Now, monkeys that throw monkey-poo? 1d2-1 subdual damage, DC 10 Fort save vs. nausea? THAT I could imagine. I'm so using that in a campaign. "There's a horde of monkeys loose, and they're throwing their business about the town! Save us, heroes!" :rofl: TM
King Uther 06-02-06, 07:51 PM	@Mitza Are you going to finish Alagar vs Dronnar during the downtime?
Pittbull 06-03-06, 12:34 PM	Same question: @Graymocker: Will you do the Fight: KazzzAHM vs Sunstroke?
King Uther 06-10-06, 04:34 PM	Hunter edit is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9360689&postcount=643) Run in the cavern, taking into account the mssing alter self spell and a few cdhanges in tactics. The fight did change somewhat, and was very interesting to see unfold. I honestly didnt know who was going to win between the last two, while the other two had such bad luck with the previous rolls there was little change. I will put the used items in a little later. Edit: Used items in. I will save this fight on my PC, so I can upload it after reimaging. So your link may be broken.
MindWandererB 06-10-06, 05:36 PM	So which fights are still left? Alagar/Dronnar and KAzzAHM/Sunstroke, I know of. I haven't seen Greymocker in a while, so maybe someone wants to pick that one up? Mitza doesn't usually shirk hers, so I hesitate on that one. Any others missing? Anyone want to pass the buck? I can pick up a fight between now and Tuesday.
DSugui 06-10-06, 07:56 PM	Daisy vs Tan is still left too. I don't know what happend to Mitza, but I haven't seen her around since the "amnesia" period started...
Zevox 06-11-06, 12:19 AM	Wow. Very nice edit KU. I wasn't expecting that outcome, but everything checks out from where I'm sitting as far as tactics and rules go - luck decided that one. Thanks for the edit! Edit: Oh, and just in case you haven't, please make sure to PM Cat about the result change. With that one Destra hits ECL 5 :) . Edit 2: Oh, and you forgot free activities. Enoch was scribing scrolls (see his sheet in the setup), Destra taught Carcalce "guard," and Dameon and Valek made money with thier profession skills. As far the remaining matches, I'd wait until monday at least before panicking on Mitza and her two. She only showed up during the last frozen period for the quest Zwei was in, so she may well have decided to take this one off and post her remaining fights after it is done. I don't know about Graymocker though... Zevox
MindWandererB 06-13-06, 02:41 AM	Well, it's Monday night, and still no word on the missing matches. As TLT guildmaster, I'd really love to have Daisy's fight get finished. DSugui and Book5, would you mind if I took that one over? If no one objects, I'll start working on that one tomorrow morning. Can someone take Sunstroke vs. KazzAHM? I have a lot of vested interest in that one, with one of them being mine and the other one being from my guild.... Here's the list so far of incomplete fights. All but two of them have tactics posted, so anyone can pick them up. LEVEL 3 FIGHTS Profo (Biko111) vs. Ico Everber (bgt) : MitzaVolchenko* LEVEL 5 FIGHTS Tan, Son of Sty (Book5) vs. Little Daisy (DSugui) : MitzaVolchenko Sunstroke (MindWandererB) vs. KazzzAHM (Pittbull) : graymocker LEVEL 6 FIGHTS Dronnar Darkjof (DSugui) vs. Alagar (King Uther) : MitzaVolchenko LEVEL 9 FIGHTS Sdentch (TheMagister) vs. Unknown Monster : Macbrea *Mitza accidentally disqualified a legal character, so this fight shouldn't stand, if possible.
TelinArtho 06-13-06, 10:22 AM	I could probably take one fight to dust off the old bones... Send me Sunstroke's tactics - and Pittbull - send me Kazzahm's as well if you can. Via PM of course. If I get them, I should be able to get it done today. /d
Pittbull 06-13-06, 11:17 AM	Thanks a lot, Telin. Tactics have been sent.
TelinArtho 06-13-06, 12:05 PM	Tactics received from Pittbull. Waiting on tactics from MWB. Note I have done a quick check on the characters. Pittbull - you've got some minor problems and a few accounting errors - but nothing that will hold you up. @MWB - you have underpaid for just about all of your special material items and this has thrown you overbudget. When you send me tactics, include some insight on what items will be unavailable (if you don't - I will arbitrarily pick the 9 javelins to make my life easier).
Pittbull 06-13-06, 12:38 PM	(1)Kazzzahm lists a -2 penalty to attacks when wielding his tower shield. However, since he is not proficient with tower shields, this modifier is actually -11 (-2 for the shield, and -9 ACP because of non-proficiency). The ACP should be noted under skills as well for Hide and MS when the shield is wielded. (2)Kazzzahm also underpaid for his [Ma] Mighty (+4) Composite Long Bow - it should cost: 100gp (base) + 400gp (str) + 300gp ([Ma]) = 800gp. (3)Same goes for his tower shield made of Darkwood: 30gp (base) + 150gp ([Ma]) + 10gp*45 (Darkwood cost) = 630gp. (4)He also needs to have the number of charges on his wand listed. (1) Lizardmen are racially proficient with shields. So he is proficient with a towershield. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A lizardfolk is automatically proficient with simple weapons and shields. (2)+(3) will be fixed after the fight! (4) Kazzz hasn't used the wand so far so it's fully charged.
TelinArtho 06-13-06, 12:40 PM	Well, color me blue then... (oops).
Macbrea 06-13-06, 12:54 PM	LEVEL 9 FIGHTS Sdentch (TheMagister) vs. Unknown Monster : Macbrea If someone feels like doing this one. Please go ahead and finish it. The start of it was posted, but I had two molars pulled on monday. I don't think I should be attempting to run anything in my slightly drugged state. :P It's Stendtch + Hauberk vs 5 Cloakers.
TelinArtho 06-13-06, 02:28 PM	@MacBrea - I'll take the fight - but some of the locations seem off. For instance in round 1, two of the cloakers occupy the same area. I'll try to manage though. In any case - I'm working on it. /d
Macbrea 06-13-06, 02:38 PM	@MacBrea - I'll take the fight - but some of the locations seem off. For instance in round 1, two of the cloakers occupy the same area. I'll try to manage though. In any case - I'm working on it. /d Thanks alot, As they fly and take up a 10x10x10 square. In a 20ft tall area this shouldn't be a huge problem.
MindWandererB 06-13-06, 02:54 PM	@Telin: Tactics sent. Go ahead and ignore the javelins. I'll take a look at your complaints. Edit: Okay, I based the price on the bow withour doubling the strength component. I figured since the masterwork price wasn't doubled, neither would the strength part of the bow. Is there a precedent for this? I did forget to double the price of the silver component of the silver stuff. Yeah, I'll kill the javelins. Starting Tan vs. Daisy now.
TelinArtho 06-13-06, 05:04 PM	Okay - finished up the Sdentch fight for Macbrea and did up the Sunstroke vs Kazzzahm fight as well. If I'm missing anything - let me know and I'll edit them in - and of course I'll move these over to the new boards once they are stable...
MindWandererB 06-13-06, 07:07 PM	Okay - finished up the Sdentch fight for Macbrea and did up the Sunstroke vs Kazzzahm fight as well. If I'm missing anything - let me know and I'll edit them in - and of course I'll move these over to the new boards once they are stable...As I reminded you in my tactics, by the current FAQ, Kazz can't make more than one natural weapon attack in a grapple.
MindWandererB 06-13-06, 07:54 PM	Daisy vs. Tan is up. No surprises. Keep in mind that the post number will be different when I put it up on the new boards, so don't link to this one.
TelinArtho 06-13-06, 09:44 PM	As I reminded you in my tactics, by the current FAQ, Kazz can't make more than one natural weapon attack in a grapple. I thought that was for grapple checks. He was making natural weapon attacks - not opposed grapples. Can you show me where it has been changed in the court decisions? (Since we don't always follow the FAQ to the letter) or at least where it was discussed in the tavern?
NiQil 06-13-06, 09:50 PM	I thought that was for grapple checks. He was making natural weapon attacks - not opposed grapples. Can you show me where it has been changed in the court decisions? (Since we don't always follow the FAQ to the letter) or at least where it was discussed in the tavern? I believe these are the relevant flurry/grappling entries to your question: Q: How do natural weapons work in a grapple? A: As per the 3.5 FAQ, under normal circumstances, a creature can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling (and it takes a –4 penalty on such attacks; PH 156). A creature that chooses to make grapple checks in place of attacks (that is, to damage its opponent, escape from the grapple, move, pin its opponent, or use its opponent’s weapon) is allowed one grapple check for every attack that its base attack bonus would allow (even if it doesn’t normally make multiple attacks in this manner). A creature with BAB +0 to +5 may make one grapple check in place of an attack, BAB +6 to +10 two, BAB +11 to +15 three, and BAB +16 to +20 four. Q: How does grappling work in combination with a monk's Flurry of Blows? A: As per the 3.5 FAQ, a monk may perform any attack or special attack in a Flurry of Blows as long as a special monk weapon that is normally allowed to be used in a flurry is used. Since unarmed strikes are allowed in a flurry, you can make grapple checks using each attack in the Flurry of Blows attack routine. This is the only exception to the ruling that regulates the amount of grapple checks you can make in a round based upon your base attack bonus. Hope that helps...
TelinArtho 06-13-06, 10:00 PM	I just found that myself in the FAQ. Well - I had assumed (and if you read your tactics MWB it reads that way as well), that it was only for the grapple checks - but yes, I see it now and will adjust the fight accordingly. Its too bad though - since Pittbull had built his tactics around something that doesn't work the way he thought. Had I been the original pitlord and knew about it from the beginning, he would've had the chance to revise his tactics. Instead, he has to hope to prevail from a tactic that was invalid to begin with. Oh well - lesson learned I guess. I'll make the edits as I can, but don't expect it before tomorrow morning.
TelinArtho 06-13-06, 10:29 PM	Alright - that went faster than expected... fight has been edited.
MindWandererB 06-13-06, 11:01 PM	Alright - that went faster than expected... fight has been edited.That's more like what I expected. Sorry about being unclear in my tactics--it always makes more sense when you know what you meant to say! BTW, Telin--were you gone when Dracazar put up his new online roller? It's an improvement over Invisible Castle in most folks' opinions.
DSugui 06-13-06, 11:08 PM	Daisy vs. Tan is up. No surprises. Keep in mind that the post number will be different when I put it up on the new boards, so don't link to this one. Thanks for running. It was faster than I expected.
TelinArtho 06-13-06, 11:23 PM	BTW, Telin--were you gone when Dracazar put up his new online roller? It's an improvement over Invisible Castle in most folks' opinions. Well, I know it is there - but I haven't tried using it yet. The problem is I'm very happy with IC and it hasn't done me wrong yet - so I haven't felt the need to change. I may check into it - but for the sake of speed - IC is faster because it is familiar to me. Same would go for the changed maps - I know the previous arena map by coordinates almost by memory (running 100+ fights in around 5 months will get you a pretty familiar memory on it...). I'll switch to the new ones - but it will definitely slow me down a fair amount. In other words - I'm taking the changes one step at a time for now. Maps have a higher priority to me though.
King Uther 06-14-06, 01:04 AM	@Telin I a the same way. I use IC because I can use it very fast and efficiently. But I also like the new roller as well, I just haven't used it much yet.
Pittbull 06-14-06, 02:37 AM	Its too bad though - since Pittbull had built his tactics around something that doesn't work the way he thought. Had I been the original pitlord and knew about it from the beginning, he would've had the chance to revise his tactics. Instead, he has to hope to prevail from a tactic that was invalid to begin with. Whow, this ruling changes more quickly, than I can follow. First it was allowed to use all the natural attacks in a grapple (Mer-Man-Mojo), then this ruling (NiQil posted) came up and as I remember it was allowed again. Somebody wrote MER-Man got his Mojo back. Sorry I cannot look it up, but I believe that NiQil posted an old ruling which hasn't been updated. I can be wrong too and of course I'll accept a loss too. Thanks for running the fight, Telin!
MindWandererB 06-14-06, 02:45 AM	Whow, this ruling changes more quickly, than I can follow. First it was allowed to use all the natural attacks in a grapple (Mer-Man-Mojo), then this ruling (NiQil posted) came up and as I remember it was allowed again. Somebody wrote MER-Man got his Mojo back. Sorry I cannot look it up, but I believe that NiQil posted an old ruling which hasn't been updated. I can be wrong too and of course I'll accept a loss too.Even if NiQil had made a mistake (a rare occurence at best), the FAQ trumps any discussions the elders might have (unless they know they're making a house rule in contradiction to the FAQ). The Sage finally came down on one side of the argument and settled it once and for all. That version of the FAQ came out a little while after KazzAHM was created.
Caterane 06-14-06, 03:11 AM	Please make sure that you save a copy of these late fights on your computer and repost it once the new boards are up.
NiQil 06-14-06, 07:52 AM	Whow, this ruling changes more quickly, than I can follow. First it was allowed to use all the natural attacks in a grapple (Mer-Man-Mojo), then this ruling (NiQil posted) came up and as I remember it was allowed again. Somebody wrote MER-Man got his Mojo back. Sorry I cannot look it up, but I believe that NiQil posted an old ruling which hasn't been updated. I can be wrong too and of course I'll accept a loss too. Thanks for running the fight, Telin! Sorry to disappoint..but the rulings I posted are the most current ones available, and are completely in line with the same rulings listed in the FAQ.
Pittbull 06-14-06, 01:57 PM	Sorry to disappoint..but the rulings I posted are the most current ones available, and are completely in line with the same rulings listed in the FAQ. Sorry, my fault, this way you lose fights. Congrats to Mindwanderer, next time, I'll be better prepared.
TheMagister 06-15-06, 03:53 AM	Okay - finished up the Sdentch fight for Macbrea and did up the Sunstroke vs Kazzzahm fight as well. If I'm missing anything - let me know and I'll edit them in - and of course I'll move these over to the new boards once they are stable... Well, something important: The nausea and stupor special abilities require Fort saves, not Will saves. I dunno how much of a difference that would make, but it "bears" mentioning. Oh, and the shield other spell may cause Sdentch to succeed on that CDG Fort save. No biggie, since if she's paralyzed, it's only a matter of time anyhow. (sorry about the bad animal pun) :yuck: TM
TelinArtho 06-15-06, 10:45 AM	I've updated the fight with the correct saves - Sdentch rolled 2s on the fortitude saves to give her a 14 - 1 short of making the saves. The bear did make the save versus nausea - but autofails with a 1 on the stupor save anyway. Since they were fortitude saves - you had a much better chance - but those cloakers are nasty... Here's the CDG - I'll edit it in later today: Round 6 Cloaker 3 CDGs Sdentch [20/2=10dmg, Fort 19 vs DC10+10=20, fail] and Sdentch dies.
Macbrea 06-15-06, 10:48 AM	Sorry, on the power level of the combatant against you when I rolled it I couldn't justify giving them their standard equipment. They were entirely too nasty even without that. Nor could i figure out even with asking around what they heck a cloaker should have for equipment. After asking about 3 different players from CoCo what to give them. I gave up and had them go in naked. PS. On a lighter note, I feel a ton better now that I had to broken molars pulled from my mouth and have had a chance for the gums to heal. Much, much better.
Pitlords 06-15-06, 11:50 AM	Dronnar Darkjof (DSugui) vs. Alagar (King Uther) : MitzaVolchenko isn't done by any chance?
TheMagister 06-15-06, 12:08 PM	Sorry, on the power level of the combatant against you when I rolled it I couldn't justify giving them their standard equipment. They were entirely too nasty even without that. Nor could i figure out even with asking around what they heck a cloaker should have for equipment. After asking about 3 different players from CoCo what to give them. I gave up and had them go in naked. PS. On a lighter note, I feel a ton better now that I had to broken molars pulled from my mouth and have had a chance for the gums to heal. Much, much better. S'okay. I can't think of too many here that would have done really well against such an array of SLAs. Darned dice didn't help, either. As far as equipment...I dunno either. Can they manipulate a potion bottle? Who knows? Thanks for the mod, Telin! TM
MindWandererB 06-15-06, 03:27 PM	Dronnar Darkjof (DSugui) vs. Alagar (King Uther) : MitzaVolchenko isn't done by any chance?No, no one picked that one up.