Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 05-30-07, 01:17 PM	Fights of the Week: May 30th Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindwandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool used to suffice until it got taken down without giving us proper notification... the Nerve Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Recent News and Developments The Iron Man tournament Finals are this week. Good luck to MindWandererB, SauroGrenom, MindwandererB, Erithmu and MindwandererB. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
MindWandererB 05-30-07, 01:37 PM	If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice.That's been down for quite some time, BTW. For those of you who missed it, I'm leaving for vacation later tonight, to return June 10. I probably won't have time to fix any mistakes in the pairings, so basically everything from the time I post the pairings until then will fall into the lap of TelinArtho. He'll be doing the roster and the pairings from today until I get back.
TelinArtho 05-30-07, 01:50 PM	Which reminds me MWB - send me a PM when you leave so I don't step on your toes making changes if needed to the pairings...
Macbrea 05-30-07, 01:53 PM	Ah.. that would be because Mal-2 router died. He never set back up his FTP and website. The mapper does have the ability to calculate distances.
Rauul 05-30-07, 02:33 PM	Have a good vacation MWB, we promise that Telin will have no hair left when you return.. :)
TelinArtho 05-30-07, 02:41 PM	Have a good vacation MWB, we promise that Telin will have no hair left when you return.. :) Good luck with that - my wife's been trying to get me to cut my hair for a long time... and you guys are no worse than my 3 kids...
Rauul 05-30-07, 02:44 PM	Hope i am not past deadline on setting Shadow active... if so then no problem.. My fault
Rauul 05-30-07, 02:45 PM	Good luck with that - my wife's been trying to get me to cut my hair for a long time... and you guys are no worse than my 3 kids... Ohhh a Challenge... :)
Zevox 05-30-07, 03:14 PM	So its Telin thats taking over until you return eh? Funny, I was expecting Sauro. Oh well, I'm sure Telin will do just fine. Zevox
McJarvis 05-30-07, 03:17 PM	Good luck with that - my wife's been trying to get me to cut my hair for a long time... and you guys are no worse than my 3 kids... If this crowd is better than your three kids, my sympathies go out to you. -_-
TelinArtho 05-30-07, 03:21 PM	So its Telin thats taking over until you return eh? Funny, I was expecting Sauro. Oh well, I'm sure Telin will do just fine. Zevox I'm told Sauro was otherwise occupied. Meh - I'm nervous about it - but I'm pretty familiar with all of the tools (since I use them to get a feeling about my opponents) If this crowd is better than your three kids, my sympathies go out to you. -_- You don't even know...
Rauul 05-30-07, 03:25 PM	So its Telin thats taking over until you return eh? Funny, I was expecting Sauro. Oh well, I'm sure Telin will do just fine. Zevox the inmates are in command of the asylum!!!
MindWandererB 05-30-07, 03:39 PM	So its Telin thats taking over until you return eh? Funny, I was expecting Sauro. Oh well, I'm sure Telin will do just fine. Zevox Sauro is going to be unavailable the one day we really need someone (June 6).
SauroGrenom 05-30-07, 04:00 PM	Sauro is going to be unavailable the one day we really need someone (June 6). I'm on vacation out of state June 6th - 10th. My internet connection will be uncertain at best during that time. So I won't be able to do pairings on the 6th. That'll impact the campaign, but we are a couple days ahead now. If we move quickly we can easily get ahead a bit. I thought we could push through and not loose any time.
MindWandererB 05-30-07, 04:45 PM	All right, pairings are done, I think. If there are mistakes, Telin will have to fix them. I'll do credits, send tactics, and I'm gone. Credits: +5: SauroGrenom, TelinArtho, Vathelokai +4: Zevox +3: MindWandererB, Rauul, Salrantol, Sjiggie, TheMagister +2: MitzaVolchenko +1: Macbrea, templer10, Yitzi -1: Malither76 -2: NiQil
templer10 05-30-07, 05:00 PM	Zwei und'Vierzig (MitzaVolchenko) - monster has been rolled - no knowladge - 4 large humanoid shaped creatures. Yitzi - i hope you can do the monster roll today since i want to write the tactics for it today/tommarow since my time this week for writing tactics is limited (and i got hard fights for lord lorian and the new girl i need to think about a little).
Vathelokai 05-30-07, 05:01 PM	Just how many of NiQil's characters does Unholy Ninja have to kill !? :eek: :D
MitzaVolchenko 05-30-07, 05:07 PM	Zwei und'Vierzig (MitzaVolchenko) - monster has been rolled - no knowladge - 4 large humanoid shaped creatures. Just one normal fight for a change...was that too much to ask? *sighs* I'll get to tactics shortly. *grumbles* I hate the sewers, but at least if they are large, she can still outmove them.
Usurpator 05-30-07, 05:11 PM	Holy ****, forgot to include prebuff section when I hastily converted Solon tonight. No mount and no familiar for the next battle.... :weep: Fortunately he's fighting Psellus the Frail, which makes it into an interesting fight still.
Usurpator 05-30-07, 05:12 PM	Kitaya is sad too, she would have preferred to beat up one of the ECL5 gladiators, but we'll all have to suffer our share of monsters fights eventually....
templer10 05-30-07, 05:13 PM	Just how many of NiQil's characters does Unholy Ninja have to kill !? :eek: :D the better question is - will there be a week in which iam not pitlording on niqils char (not that i mind really) - i think it's week 10? or so in a row...
templer10 05-30-07, 05:15 PM	Just one normal fight for a change...was that too much to ask? *sighs* I'll get to tactics shortly. *grumbles* I hate the sewers, but at least if they are large, she can still outmove them. well wait for next week - you will have the "fun" of facing my druid possibly :D
Zevox 05-30-07, 05:16 PM	Mithos Durrol (Zevox) vs. Lord Lorian (templer10) : TelinArtho [Temple] *sigh* The Psion again... not enough resist energy in the world... what I wouldn't give to get Energy Missile banned or errataed... Celia Durrol (Zevox) intercepts Swamper operative[Lizardfolk Ranger6] : TheMagister [Sewer] Heh, so Ceilia's first sewer fight is against a foe she has virtually no chance to lose to. Should be fun (if "fun" means "a slaughter"). Zevox
Khaim 05-30-07, 05:19 PM	Holy ****, forgot to include prebuff section when I hastily converted Solon tonight. No mount and no familiar for the next battle.... :weep: Fortunately he's fighting Psellus the Frail, which makes it into an interesting fight still. I'd be okay with letting you have the familiar. Not so much with the mount, though; I hate horses.
templer10 05-30-07, 05:20 PM	*sigh* The Psion again... not enough resist energy in the world... what I wouldn't give to get Energy Missile banned or errataed... Zevox meh- barely any pps for this fight and iam down on expendables - say TY you dont have to face my other ECL 6 psion (with his 27 pps) - that one takes full advantage of the brokenes that is Energy missile (and with a dorja of it 2).
Khaim 05-30-07, 05:44 PM	meh- barely any pps for this fight and iam down on expendables - say TY you dont have to face my other ECL 6 psion (with his 27 pps) - that one takes full advantage of the brokenes that is Energy missile (and with a dorja of it 2). Energy Missile isn't broken unless you play it as DC +1 per pp, and not really even then. It's d6 damage per pp, which is average. As far as hitting multiple targets, that's no worse than Energy Ball; admittedly the latter is 4th level, but it's still d6 per pp to multiple targets. Heck, against a single target Energy Ray does the same damage, and that's a Psion 1 power!
Khaim 05-30-07, 05:45 PM	Yitzi, what is Arbin doing? I don't think you can both Scribe and steal in the same week. Unless I'm missing something... Edit: Also, your total Spot with familiar is +6, not +8.
Usurpator 05-30-07, 05:51 PM	I'm looking at the revised monster list for the first time now. The first thing that I see is that monsters are generally much tougher than on the older list. Many of my characters would have trouble with such monsters even if they knew in advance exactly what they would fight. With such knowledge difficult to come by (and characters obviously optimized to fight other gladiators and not monsters) it seems to me that the average monster fight is much harder than the average fight against a gladiator. Looking at the list, even if I knew what I would face, Kitaya would have poor odds against the majority of them, while I'm fairly confident to have good odds to beat any gladiator in the ECL5 league. What is the current record on monster fights? Is it anywhere near 50/50? Seriously considering to just forfeit any monster fights I get, since I find them much less fun than fighting other builds. And if you don't know what you face, the largest fun part for me, writing tactics, largely disappears. It has the added advantage of not spending limited resources too, but that's a bit unfair to subsequent opponents in the 3FC. What is the current opinion on monster fights?
Salrantol 05-30-07, 05:54 PM	I'm curious why Esme Baraksdottir didn't get paired this week, but I guess it's because she somehow never got on the roster. /shrug With 2 MQs and a monster fight to run, I can do without writing tactics this week, so it works out.
templer10 05-30-07, 05:55 PM	I'm looking at the revised monster list for the first time now. The first thing that I see is that monsters are generally much tougher than on the older list. Many of my characters would have trouble with such monsters even if they knew in advance exactly what they would fight. With such knowledge difficult to come by (and characters obviously optimized to fight other gladiators and not monsters) it seems to me that the average monster fight is much harder than the average fight against a gladiator. Looking at the list, even if I knew what I would face, Kitaya would have poor odds against the majority of them, while I'm fairly confident to have good odds to beat any gladiator in the ECL5 league. What is the current record on monster fights? Is it anywhere near 50/50? Seriously considering to just forfeit any monster fights I get, since I find them much less fun than fighting other builds. And if you don't know what you face, the largest fun part for me, writing tactics, largely disappears. It has the added advantage of not spending limited resources too, but that's a bit unfair to subsequent opponents in the 3FC. What is the current opinion on monster fights? in my opinion a monster fight is either an almost auto-lose for the fighter or an almost auto-win for the monster - it's rarely an "even" fight.
TelinArtho 05-30-07, 05:56 PM	In general - yes - it is still around 50/50. Some people are vocal about them, others are not. I can't say much about them except that I use those tables almost exclusively for anything I run (quests, miniquests, monster fights, etc) because it saves me much more time and it "forces" me to use things that I might not have considered in another light. And that said - your monster info will be up shortly.
SauroGrenom 05-30-07, 06:01 PM	I think Gareth Irontower (ECL10) should be on a MQ to officially join PSI this week with me as the questlord. At least I've been discussing it with Malither76 and his character is marked on the roster with [G]. Please put that into the battles post.
MitzaVolchenko 05-30-07, 06:02 PM	What is the current record on monster fights? Is it anywhere near 50/50? Seriously considering to just forfeit any monster fights I get, since I find them much less fun than fighting other builds. And if you don't know what you face, the largest fun part for me, writing tactics, largely disappears. It has the added advantage of not spending limited resources too, but that's a bit unfair to subsequent opponents in the 3FC. What is the current opinion on monster fights? I am not fond of them...but I am almost always in the minority when it comes to hating all of the wonky fight formats. As for not knowing what you are fighting...just look at the chart and narrow it down. If I read through accurately, Zwei is fighting one of the following: 55: 4 Ogres [CR3] 65: 4 Troll skeletons [CR3] 77: 4 Ogre zombies [CR3] Of course the description of 4 large humanoid shaped creatures isn't actually accurate as trolls and ogres are type giant, but I don't actually have any knowledge so I can't complain too much about the description.
Usurpator 05-30-07, 06:02 PM	in my opinion a monster fight is either an almost auto-lose for the fighter or an almost auto-win for the monster - it's rarely an "even" fight. That resembles a bit of my opinion as well. As see many monsters in the ECL5 league that would mean an auto-lose (barring extreme luck) even if I knew what I was facing, and a few monsters that will either be a challenge or an auto-win for me. Example: Greater Barghest, better hp., better skills, better speed, better AC, better attack bonus, better grapple, better special abilities, better saves (almost better at everything) than any gladiator in the ECL5 league.... It's either use a fly scroll for an auto-win, or no fly scroll for a near certain auto-lose. Boring.
Usurpator 05-30-07, 06:06 PM	I am not fond of them...but I am almost always in the minority when it comes to hating all of the wonky fight formats. As for not knowing what you are fighting...just look at the chart and narrow it down. If I read through accurately, Zwei is fighting one of the following: 55: 4 Ogres [CR3] 65: 4 Troll skeletons [CR3] 77: 4 Ogre zombies [CR3] Of course the description of 4 large humanoid shaped creatures isn't actually accurate as trolls and ogres are type giant, but I don't actually have any knowledge so I can't complain too much about the description. Zwei is one of the lucky ones then. I'll fight one of those three selections (being ECL5 myself) at any time over a Greater Barghest. At ECL7 I would consider such opponents an auto-win. I don't much believe in having the odds of victory in a fight being primarily dependent on a random roll of dice.
TelinArtho 05-30-07, 06:14 PM	I think Gareth Irontower (ECL10) should be on a MQ to officially join PSI this week with me as the questlord. At least I've been discussing it with Malither76 and his character is marked on the roster with [G]. Please put that into the battles post. Done. I don't much believe in having the odds of victory in a fight being primarily dependent on a random roll of dice. Well, the fact is this happens every week. Just because you are fairly confident in your abilities to take down most other players in your league doesn't mean those are your only opponents. Aside from a monster fight, interleague fights, FFAs, and team fights can all lead to different types that you should be prepared for. If you ignore one possible set of fights - you will indeed have a possibility of failure against that set. Do you think the primary reason for people holding cold iron and silver arrows is because of Dretch and lycanthrope PCs? Or do you think they have them to given them a chance versus monster fights? Many of the potential monsters on the list in the monster fights can be predicted. For wizards in particular, if they shirk their knowledge skills they will be at a distinct disadvantage versus a monster fight. A well-prepared wizard though should have little issue with them. Similarly, for melee/ranged builds, their tactics will change little between the various types of creatures - so they don't suffer as much from lacking the knowledge skills. Still, investing in a few key skill points (1 rank gets you the type - which is a biggie), can give you just the kind of knowledge you need.
Macbrea 05-30-07, 06:18 PM	Valen sky's monster info is up: Arena: Sewer Knowledges: None Applicable Description: Huge Statuesque Creature And yes, it isn't an auto-loss for the monster, he never learned how to draw in the lines.
Usurpator 05-30-07, 06:22 PM	Well, the fact is this happens every week. Just because you are fairly confident in your abilities to take down most other players in your league doesn't mean those are your only opponents. Aside from a monster fight, interleague fights, FFAs, and team fights can all lead to different types that you should be prepared for. I'm not in the CoCo to fight monsters. I'm in the CoCo to pit my builds and tactics against those of other players. That is the challenge I like. If I want to go and fight monsters with some default tactics, I can do that perfectly fine at home or in a regular campaign. I simply have no interest in it. Most monster fights I had very not very exciting, lots of auto-losses and auto-wins. Simply said, they are not a lot of fun. Only reason for me for monster fights to exist is to have you fight when you have no opponent. I'd rather not fight than fight a monster fight. Cat had some idea to have monster fights to make it 'better simulate a table-top campaign'. I don't think CoCo is nor should be a table-top campaign simulator. I'll have some nice ideas about other replacements for 'lacking slots' in fight assignment. I have no problem at all with FFA's or Hunter Fights. They are very interesting (from a tactical standpoint) to me. Are you having a lot of fun Pitlording a monster fight for me? If neither of us thinks its a lot of fun, why should we do it really?
Usurpator 05-30-07, 06:34 PM	Monster Knowledge: Small Humanoid with goblin heritage. It seems I got one of the easier draws as well: 1 Blue Shaper 5. Still not looking forward to writing tactics.
TheMagister 05-30-07, 06:34 PM	Hey, guys, I need a hand. I dropped the ball and didn't PM pitlords to take me off of the Active Pitlord list, and so I've been assigned two fights that I can't run. • Celia Durrol (Zevox) intercepts Swamper operative[Lizardfolk Ranger6] : TheMagister [Sewer] • Daren Legrad (Yitzi) vs. Atemu (Korone) : TheMagister [Arena] If anyone can pick these up, I'd be heartily appreciative. To Zevox, Yitzi, and Korone, you have my humblest apologies! I hope this doesn't set your characters back at all. TM
MitzaVolchenko 05-30-07, 06:41 PM	Hey, guys, I need a hand. I dropped the ball and didn't PM pitlords to take me off of the Active Pitlord list, and so I've been assigned two fights that I can't run. • Celia Durrol (Zevox) intercepts Swamper operative[Lizardfolk Ranger6] : TheMagister [Sewer] • Daren Legrad (Yitzi) vs. Atemu (Korone) : TheMagister [Arena] If anyone can pick these up, I'd be heartily appreciative. To Zevox, Yitzi, and Korone, you have my humblest apologies! I hope this doesn't set your characters back at all. TM I'll take both.
TheMagister 05-30-07, 06:44 PM	I'll take both. Really 'preciate it, Mitza! I'll PM the involved parties to make sure no one drops the ball. TM
MitzaVolchenko 05-30-07, 06:45 PM	@templer10 Zwei's tactics sent...let me know if you want to separate thread or play by play that one on IM...it is sometimes more fun thanjsut mass rolling by yourself :) @my fighters First tactics in=first fights out. If you want a separate thread fight or a play by play it must be agreeable to all involved.
Usurpator 05-30-07, 06:45 PM	Don't take my anti-monster stance to extreme people, am just disappointed, that's most of it. Was hoping for a nice fight, and got a type of fight that usually doesn't bring me much enjoyment.
Usurpator 05-30-07, 06:47 PM	@templer10 Zwei's tactics sent...let me know if you want to separate thread or play by play that one on IM...it is sometimes more fun thanjsut mass rolling by yourself :) You can play-by-play monster fights? I'll choose that immediately rather writing loads of contingencies. Play-by-play neatly bypasses the knowledge roll, btw, so I sort of assumed it was not allowed.
MitzaVolchenko 05-30-07, 06:47 PM	Don't take my anti-monster stance to extreme people, am just disappointed, that's most of it. Was hoping for a nice fight, and got a type of fight that usually doesn't bring me much enjoyment. *hugs* Don't sweat it...if they get too hyper at ya, I'll take one for the team and pop off with something of the wall so that they can yell at me instead :D
MitzaVolchenko 05-30-07, 06:48 PM	You can play-by-play monster fights? I'll choose that immediately rather writing loads of contingencies. Play-by-play neatly bypasses the knowledge roll, btw, so I sort of assumed it was not allowed. It only bypasses the knowledge roll if the pitlord lets it...take a look at some of the better quest/campaign fights...initials or monster1, monster2 designations are used to not give away any info the character shouldn't have. The reasonthat most fights are not run in their own threads or play by play is that it is time consuming...I love doing it that way when I can get folks on IM...means I don't ahve to worry about whether or not I interpreted their tactics correctly.
Rauul 05-30-07, 08:44 PM	@Yitzi Shadows Tactics sent vs Niqil's Elf.. Tyden Rayn
Zevox 05-30-07, 09:06 PM	Personally, the only thing that bothers me about monster fights is that players aren't allowed to auto-win them, but the monsters are. Thats just plain unfair - either allow both or neither, I say (and have been saying for I don't know how long...). Otherwise, yeah, they're less interesting than a regular match, but they serve as a way for a character without a PC foe available to have a fight, and an incentive for characters to invest in the knowledge skills or different pieces of equipment (silver/cold iron/adamantine weapons, corrupt or bless weapon oils, etc), so they're worth having around I think. Zevox
MitzaVolchenko 05-30-07, 09:22 PM	Some of us don't re-roll monsters as we agree with you on that score, Zevox :)
Pitlords 05-30-07, 09:38 PM	• Celia Durrol (Zevox) intercepts Swamper operative[Lizardfolk Ranger6] : TheMagister MitzaVolchenko [Sewer] • Daren Legrad (Yitzi) vs. Atemu (Korone) : TheMagister MitzaVolchenko [Arena] Mitza +2 credits TheMagister -2 credits oh and +1 credits to Sauro (for the miniquest)
hogarth 05-30-07, 09:41 PM	In general - yes - it is still around 50/50. Some people are vocal about them, others are not. I can't say much about them except that I use those tables almost exclusively for anything I run (quests, miniquests, monster fights, etc) because it saves me much more time and it "forces" me to use things that I might not have considered in another light. And that said - your monster info will be up shortly. I'd be interested in what the ratio of wins/losses is for monster fights by ECL. I suspect that monster fights get harder for higher level characters (creatures start to get high SRs, large numbers of hit dice, and lots of gold for buying expendables -- plus if a gladiator has the ability to fly, many of the weaker creatures become "autowins" and thus get rerolled). I could be wrong, of course.
hogarth 05-30-07, 09:46 PM	It seems I got one of the easier draws as well: 1 Blue Shaper 5. Still not looking forward to writing tactics. Last time I fought Telin's blue goblin Shaper 5, he gave him potions of Invisibility and a Bag of Tricks so that you have to fight through an army of astral constructs and animals before you can even find him! (Of course, it didn't work out that way, luckily.)
TelinArtho 05-30-07, 09:47 PM	Well each week's pairings post is linked at the beginning of the battles thread and each fight is linked within that - so it is certainly easy to research it. Just time consuming. Let us know the results :)
Zevox 05-30-07, 09:48 PM	@ Mitza - Tactics for Ceilia Durrol (vs Lizardfolk Ranger 6) have been PMed. Easy fight ahoy! Thanks for picking it up. @ My Players - I have tactics for Besthira, Raskos, Arbin, and Psellus. Zevox
TelinArtho 05-30-07, 09:48 PM	Last time I fought Telin's blue goblin Shaper 5, he gave him potions of Invisibility and a Bag of Tricks so that you have to fight through an army of astral constructs and animals before you can even find him! (Of course, it didn't work out that way, luckily.) Shh... Though I have been known to change things up from now and then...
Vathelokai 05-30-07, 10:33 PM	I am not fond of them...but I am almost always in the minority when it comes to hating all of the wonky fight formats. Not completely, we did agree to get rid of the hunter fights (we did right, over in the council?). Are you having a lot of fun Pitlording a monster fight for me? If neither of us thinks its a lot of fun, why should we do it really?I actually do enjoy running monster fights, if they are relatively fair. That's part of why I run quests so frequently. It's quite a bit more fun when the PC knows what they are up against, and have interesting tactics. Personally, the only thing that bothers me about monster fights is that players aren't allowed to auto-win them, but the monsters are. Thats just plain unfair - either allow both or neither, I say. Zevox That drives me nuts too. Looks like we have a 2/5ths majority... ;)
Yitzi 05-30-07, 10:49 PM	Yitzi, what is Arbin doing? I don't think you can both Scribe and steal in the same week. Unless I'm missing something... Edit: Also, your total Spot with familiar is +6, not +8. He is scribing-the title line says the free activity as per the rules, the burglary info is just there because I don't want to have to put it back up next week. And thanks for the point about spot; I copied&pasted from listen and forgot to adjust that part.
Zevox 05-30-07, 11:08 PM	Energy Missile isn't broken unless you play it as DC +1 per pp, and not really even then. It's d6 damage per pp, which is average. As far as hitting multiple targets, that's no worse than Energy Ball; admittedly the latter is 4th level, but it's still d6 per pp to multiple targets. Heck, against a single target Energy Ray does the same damage, and that's a Psion 1 power! Yes, Energy Missile is broken, for two reasons - first, +1 DC/pp, which gets the DC up insanely quickly (twice as fast as with any other power except Energy Stun!). For example, consider a 10th-level Psion using that power - lets presume int 22, fairly average for that level, and full augmentation. You'd be looking at DC 10+6int+2level+7augment = 25, or 27 with electricity. Compare that to Energy Bolt, which would be DC 10+6int+3level+2augment = 21, or 23 with electricity (the same with Energy Ball, just +1level -1augment comparbly). Yeah, EM is much better. Then take a look at a Wizard of the same level and int - to get even close, they need to use a 5th level spell (either heightened lower-level or Cone of Cold, for instance), which nets them DC 10+6int+5level = 21, or at best they can add +3 with feats (spell focus/greater focus/tattoo focus) for 24. Yep, even with an investment of 3 (possibly 4 if its a heightened spell) feats, that power still beats them in terms of DC. Thats broken right there. Then second theres its ability to target up to 5 creatures at full power each within 15' of each other. Theres no other second-level spell or power that does anything like that. The only area power available at that level has a 10' radius, which is less than EM, and no spells at that low a level have an AoE unless they're support-type (i.e. Bless, Sleep, etc). Theres nothing else at that level capable of targeting that many creatures for that kind of damage, much less with a DC that scales that fast. So, yes, that power is definitely broken. If we were to implement the errata of Complete Psionic that reduces the DC to scale at +1/2pp, that'd help a lot, but we decided not to for some reason. Zevox
Rauul 05-30-07, 11:23 PM	So, yes, that power is definitely broken. If we were to implement the errata of Complete Psionic that reduces the DC to scale at +1/2pp, that'd help a lot, but we decided not to for some reason. Zevox yet for some reason we use every other WoTC errata out there.. to include Skips Rotg..
MitzaVolchenko 05-30-07, 11:25 PM	@ Zevox Ceila's tactics received and understood; Lizard created...will run that tomorrow...I am right that it is supposed to be CR7 Lizardfolk with 6 levels of ranger, right? and 7200gp to spend equipping her? @Yitzi tactics for Daren received and PM sent requesting clarification. @Telin Vallgar's tactics received and understood.
Zevox 05-31-07, 12:08 AM	@ Zevox Ceila's tactics received and understood; Lizard created...will run that tomorrow...I am right that it is supposed to be CR7 Lizardfolk with 6 levels of ranger, right? and 7200gp to spend equipping her? Its an ECL 9 Lizardfolk with 6 Ranger levels and 25 point buy. 12,000 gp for equipment. Zevox
Khaim 05-31-07, 12:10 AM	So, yes, that power is definitely broken. If we were to implement the errata of Complete Psionic that reduces the DC to scale at +1/2pp, that'd help a lot, but we decided not to for some reason. Well that's half your problem right there. I mean, it and Energy Stun are such obvious typos; the whole idea is that some powers scale their DCs as if affected by Heighten Power.
NiQil 05-31-07, 01:15 AM	@ templer10: Tactics for Apocalypse sent via PM @ templer10: Tactics for Blitzkrieg sent via PM @ MitzaVolchenko: Tactics for Juggernaut sent via PM @ MitzaVolchenko: Tactics for Taren Rune sent via PM @ Yitzi: Tactics for Tyden Rayne sent via PM
Vathelokai 05-31-07, 01:18 AM	@templer10: tactics for Unholy Ninja vs. Apocalypse sent. Anybody seen Sjiggie?
hogarth 05-31-07, 06:45 AM	Well each week's pairings post is linked at the beginning of the battles thread and each fight is linked within that - so it is certainly easy to research it. Just time consuming. Let us know the results :) I looked at monster fights from 27 Dec 2006 to 18 Apr 2007; there's nothing special about this window of time -- it's just the subset of fights I could look at before bedtime last night. Here is the raw data I gathered (a total of 40 monster fights in that period of time): Date W/L ECL Treasure Name Monster 14 Mar. L 3 N Petit Guepe 3 Quasits – surrender 3 Jan. L 4 N Matthis II Half-celestial unicorn 14 Feb. L 7 N Antalya 6-headed Pyrohydra – surrender 31 Jan. L 9 N Featylec Caller in Darkness 17 Jan. L 9 N Featylec Hellcat – surrender 18 Apr. L 3 Y Roulex Ogre 28 Mar. L 3 Y Caspian Wyrmling Brass Dragon 28 Mar. L 3 Y Kronos Air Mephit 14 Feb. L 5 Y Durin Werebear (TelinArtho) 21 Mar. L 5 Y Razorfang 3 Azers 21 Mar. L 6 Y Rubicanti Janni + 2 air elementals 18 Apr. L 6 Y Durin Ogre Barbarian 3 28 Mar. L 8 Y Valen Sky Stone Giant 21 Feb. L 9 Y Besthirah Half-orc cleric 7 + 3 half-orc fighter 4 (TelinArtho) 4 Apr. L 9 Y Denshi 3 Ettins 28 Mar. L 7 & 6 Y Kervan + Rubicanti Xill + Black Pudding (TelinArtho) 4 Apr. W 3 N Methos Lion 7 Mar. W 3 N Hajj 2 Vargouilles 27 Dec. W 3 N Gorgax Giant owl 17 Jan. W 3 N Ikhain 2 Hippogriffs – separate thread 7 Mar. W 4 N Gundmir 3 Skum 7 Feb. W 4 N Maya Redwine 3 Shocker Lizards – fight not properly linked 7 Mar. W 4 N Harbinger 2 Large Vipers 27 Dec. W 7 N Antalya Ravid + objects 11 Apr. W 7 N Malik Chaos Beast 4 Apr. W 7 N Battlesong Duet Elephant 18 Apr. W 8 N Jar-red 2 Megaraptors 11 Apr. W 8 N Ihdald Celestial Megaraptor 7 Feb. W 8 N M. Hood 2 Megaraptors 3 Jan. W 9 N Eraca 3 Half-fiend displacer beasts 18 Apr. W 9 N Valen Sky Phrenic Bulette 27 Dec. W 9 N Dronnar Half-fiend invisible stalker 7 Feb. W 9 N Zassl 5 Dire Boars 4 Apr. W 4 Y Qwogi Half-Giant Monk 1/PsyWar 2 18 Apr. W 4 Y Graashnak 2 Wyrmling White Dragons 24 Jan. W 6 Y Battlesong Duet Janni + 2 air elementals 21 Mar. W 7 Y Torel Bard 5 + Rogue 5 28 Feb. W 7 Y Izumi 4 Doppelgangers 21 Feb. W 8 Y M. Hood 3 Harpies 14 Feb. W 9 Y Loddick 4 Tiefling Wizards So for ECL 9 (the highest ECL for which fights were available), there were 5 wins and 4 losses -- just over 50%. One interesting thing I found: --> against monsters with no equipment: 17 wins, 5 losses --> against monster with equipment: 7 wins, 11 losses The other interesting thing I found -- for monster fights pitlorded by TelinArtho, the record was 0 wins and 3 losses. Sheer coincidence, I imagine. :D
templer10 05-31-07, 07:46 AM	The other interesting thing I found -- for monster fights pitlorded by TelinArtho, the record was 0 wins and 3 losses. Sheer coincidence, I imagine. :D pff you peeps are lucky all the monster fights i pitlorded were 0 int creatures with no treasure.... iam mean.....
Macbrea 05-31-07, 08:10 AM	The other interesting thing I found -- for monster fights pitlorded by TelinArtho, the record was 0 wins and 3 losses. Sheer coincidence, I imagine. :D According to that data I am 1 win, 3 losses against monsters for pitlording. It really has to do with the not rerolling creatures no matter what is rolled. I feel that if you are going to get something that is almost an auto-loss, you shouldn't get rerolls on auto-wins. This week is a perfect example. I gave away enough information for Joe to guess the creature he is fighting is a Huge Earth Elemental. At level 9, a fighter type has hardly any chance of taking one down. The fights aren't very balanced at that level to make them fair.
Hirumajoe 05-31-07, 08:21 AM	According to that data I am 1 win, 3 losses against monsters for pitlording. It really has to do with the not rerolling creatures no matter what is rolled. I feel that if you are going to get something that is almost an auto-loss, you shouldn't get rerolls on auto-wins. This week is a perfect example. I gave away enough information for Joe to guess the creature he is fighting is a Huge Earth Elemental. At level 9, a fighter type has hardly any chance of taking one down. The fights aren't very balanced at that level to make them fair. Actually, the Huge and not an Auto-loss for the monster was all that was needed to determine an Earth Elemental. :) (Or a Black Pudding I suppose... Although that would easily be distinguished by that fact of whether its forced to squeeze initially and splits into little copies or moves through the earth with the greatest of ease.) Technically, the Earth Elemental can always attack from Total Cover, staying 5' into the ceiling and reaching 15' down into the corridor, assuming I'm reading the rules right. At which point, Valen (and even most mages I'd imagine) loses, without some ability to get through the stone walls. Never has to deal with water or the metal pipes by doing so.
Macbrea 05-31-07, 08:24 AM	I was just going to fight it as move down hallway and fight you. Pretty genericly. It's not a fair fight no matter how I run it for the monster. And that is playing the monster with a serious handi-cap as your correct it could swing from below the surface of the stone at you with no way of returning attacks at it.
Hirumajoe 05-31-07, 08:29 AM	I was just going to fight it as move down hallway and fight you. Pretty genericly. It's not a fair fight no matter how I run it for the monster. And that is playing the monster with a serious handi-cap as your correct it could swing from below the surface of the stone at you with no way of returning attacks at it. Well, knowing that, I guess I shouldn't just surrender, which is what I was contemplating, since making you roll a bunch of listen/total concealment rolls didn't sound like much fun. But if you "just move it down the corridor", btw, then its getting hindered by the water. At which point it has a 15' move speed. At which point Valen can move and shoot. And at which point Valen auto-wins if he gets a grate opened up first so he can just keep circling. I presume it will use some intelligence and at least move into the wall enough so that it can keep its 30' move speed. The other questioni s, is it really fair to write "dumb" tactics for the monster just to give the PC a chance at winning? What happens when he completely takes advantage of those dumb tactics. I mean sure, anyone can win if the opponent just stands there. :)
Macbrea 05-31-07, 08:40 AM	That isn't even an auto-win for valen by the way. 1d8+4 ~ 9.5 damage - 10/- DR = 0 +2d6 ~ 7 damage = 6 damage 17 pp /2 = 8 x 6 = 48 damage As you can see.. it's more a matter of playing the creature as you state 'dumbly' still doesn't give you much chance. And yes, it would duck under water.
Hirumajoe 05-31-07, 08:43 AM	That isn't even an auto-win for valen by the way. 1d8+4 ~ 9.5 damage - 10/- DR = 0 +2d6 ~ 7 damage = 6 damage 17 pp /2 = 8 x 6 = 48 damage As you can see.. it's more a matter of playing the creature as you state 'dumbly' still doesn't give you much chance. And yes, it would duck under water. You're forgetting Valen is a Gish. With his new bow, Animal Affinity Strength, and a 4pp Offensive Precognition, his ranged damage is 1d8+8. If he spends 2PP it goes up to 1d8+7+2d6. Although arguably that better used with Cystal shards one at a time to get 1d6+3 damage per pp. Still it'll take forever and a half to get through 21 HD.
Macbrea 05-31-07, 08:44 AM	And yes, I would play the creature in such a fashion that it should win the fight. I just refuse to play it as the creature that stands outside the arena and beats you to death. It isn't fair to play it that way and isn't very interesting for running.
templer10 05-31-07, 09:23 AM	Mitza- tactics for lady liara sent. telin - tactics for lord lorian sent. Yitzi - tactics for longshot sent. pm me with any questions. ty.
Korone 05-31-07, 09:47 AM	MitzaVolchenko: Tactics for Atemu has been sent.
Hirumajoe 05-31-07, 10:40 AM	@Macbrea: Tactics sent, such as they are.
Khaim 05-31-07, 10:42 AM	Zevox, both my tactics are in. I apologize in advance for the hide-fest that will be Arbin vs Psyker.
MitzaVolchenko 05-31-07, 11:11 AM	Its an ECL 9 Lizardfolk with 6 Ranger levels and 25 point buy. 12,000 gp for equipment. Zevox *goes shopping again* So do I figure rewards on CR or ECL?
MitzaVolchenko 05-31-07, 11:17 AM	@NiQil tactics received and understood. @Korone tactics received and understood. @Yitzi clarification received, and I think I understand. @templer10 tactics received and understood.
SauroGrenom 05-31-07, 11:40 AM	The "Fairness" of our monster fights is a complicated thing. I think that we are at an advantage trying to consider these things at ECL10 and below. Most of the low CR monsters are one trick ponies, so it's possible to defeat them with a reasonable tactic or character build. At ECL 15, monsters are far far more scary. You can apply enough templates to a creature, and advance it's HD then slap on a few class levels to cover the major weaknesses. Suddenly your black pudding is flying, has half fiend spell like abilities, 300hp, a breath weapon, spell resistance of like 35 and epic HD. Woot! Good luck against that one, and it doesn't even have equipment. Luckly that's not on the list of CR15 monsters. If that's not fun enough, try out 4 Phrenic Hellwasp swarms. Or better yet the Half Celestial Phrenic Delver... You get into really fun stuff at ECL16, with the phrenic adult silver dragon... triple wealth! Yay! It's got about the same wealth than you do, and it fights better than an ECL16 fighter, and it's got about 250hp, and SR32, and 16 phrenic powers, and casts spells like a 7th level sorcerer... I hope you make the will save vs psychic Crush at DC 22. If you make that, eat 8d6 and then here comes 3 Mind Thrusts at DC 27 save or take 19d10. Can you say "death from massive damage"? That's just assuming no buffs, feats or magic items to boost the save DC higher (which can easily hit the 30's). Once you start applying templates and class levels to things that are already tough monsters, you get a more rounded monster. These kinds of things are the stuff of reoccurring campaign master villains, not one of three fights that day. My point is that at CR5, the monsters are mostly manageable by ECL5 characters, but when you hit higher CR monsters, the parties multiple activations/round and diverse abilities really becomes necessary to take the creatures down. How about this... let's prove it. I'll build a phrenic adult silver dragon and equip it. I'll keep the details to myself unless you have knowledge high enough. Then Telin, or anyone, can try to build a ECL16 gladiator to take it down. I'll run the battle as an extra. You as the player have all the cards. You can build a character precisely to defeat this foe, and you know generally what your dealing with. I'm willing to bet the Phrenic Dragon will stomp 9 out of 10 ECL16 characters.
McJarvis 05-31-07, 11:45 AM	I'm willing to bet the Phrenic Dragon will stomp 9 out of 10 ECL16 characters. Granted it's a powerful foe, but given the cleverness seeping out of this place, I'd lower those chances to the Phrenic Dragon beating 6/10 characters.
TelinArtho 05-31-07, 11:46 AM	Of course a Phrenic Adult Silver (22HD) is a CR18 creature... so I wouldn't expect an ECL16 opponent to succeed very often... If Bulgar makes it to that level - we'll see...
SauroGrenom 05-31-07, 11:56 AM	43: 1 Phrenic Dragon: Adult Green; Young Adult Red or Silver (1d3) (CR 16) Sorry. My mistake. I read that too fast. Young adult silver dragon, but my offer still stands. At 19hd it's almost the same creature, only minus 1 epic feat and decrease the SR to 29.
hogarth 05-31-07, 12:00 PM	Granted it's a powerful foe, but given the cleverness seeping out of this place, I'd lower those chances to the Phrenic Dragon beating 6/10 characters. My first idea: ghost wyrmling white dragon telepath 5/thrallherd 1 with ghost wyrmling white dragon thrall. Equip both with Dust of Sneezing and Choking. Throw dust at dragon. While it's choking, drain its Dex to zero with touch attacks.
Hirumajoe 05-31-07, 12:08 PM	My first idea: ghost wyrmling white dragon telepath 5/thrallherd 1 with ghost wyrmling white dragon thrall. Equip both with Dust of Sneezing and Choking. Throw dust at dragon. While it's choking, drain its Dex to zero with touch attacks. Does the 9,000 gp Necklace of Adaptation work against Dust of Sneezing and Choking? Because if it does, that's definitely on my list of things to buy by that level...
Zevox 05-31-07, 12:09 PM	My first idea: ghost wyrmling white dragon telepath 5/thrallherd 1 with ghost wyrmling white dragon thrall. Equip both with Dust of Sneezing and Choking. Throw dust at dragon. While it's choking, drain its Dex to zero with touch attacks. Whats this "Dust of Sneezing and Choking" you're talking about? I can't seem to find it in the SRD or DMG. Zevox
SauroGrenom 05-31-07, 12:10 PM	With 231,000gp to spend, that necklace of adaption is an easy buy against similar gas attacks.
SauroGrenom 05-31-07, 12:12 PM	Whats this "Dust of Sneezing and Choking" you're talking about? I can't seem to find it in the SRD or DMG. Zevox It's in the SRD. It's a cursed item.
Hirumajoe 05-31-07, 12:16 PM	Although I think a Psion (Shaper)/Psion Uncarnate might have decent odds. Simply because he's incoporeal, has burrowing power Hail of Crystals (no SR) and with Expanded Knowledge has Clairvoyant sense. Most powers that dragon has require LOE and LOS. He's admittedly only a ML 12 at ECL 16 , but with enough cash and 11 pp cognizance crystals... (he's allowed 10 pieces of equipment because of his Assume Equipment ability). And if he runs out of PP, he's always got his returning Javelin of Distance thats pretty close to a touch attack each round at up to 200' distance (admittedly at -10 to hit for 5 range increments, but he's got something like a +12 to hit with it vs a touch AC of 8 or 9 possibly 13 with Mage Armor). Heck, that might even be an auto-loss for the dragon if it can't actually attack through the stone floor...
McJarvis 05-31-07, 12:19 PM	Although I think a Psion (Shaper)/Psion Uncarnate might have decent odds. Simply because he's incoporeal, has burrowing power Hail of Crystals (no SR) and with Expanded Knowledge has Clairvoyant sense. Most powers that dragon has require LOE and LOS. He's admittedly only a ML 12 at ECL 16 , but with enough cash and 11 pp cognizance crystals... (he's allowed 10 pieces of equipment because of his Assume Equipment ability). All the uncarnate would need is a necklass of anti-magic field[continuous]. He's invulnerable. [Incorporeal as (ex) ability+ immune to non magic weapons+ in an antimagic feild = Only a Soul knife can kill him] Good luck getting that approved, though ;)
Hirumajoe 05-31-07, 12:24 PM	All the uncarnate would need is a necklass of anti-magic field[continuous]. He's invulnerable. [Incorporeal as (ex) ability+ immune to non magic weapons+ in an antimagic feild = Only a Soul knife can kill him] Good luck getting that approved, though ;) Umm.. Incorporeal isn't an (Ex) ability, its Su. Also, incorpreal monsters wink out of existance in the presence of an anti-magic field. Leaving them outside of the arena with an auto-loss after 10 rounds. Edit: Whoa... Shed body is (Su), but you're right, Uncarnate is (Ex). Wierd. Edit2: Doubly wierd... Only incorporeal undead wink out in an Anti-magic field... Edit3: I think my Psion (Shaper) needs to grab a wizard ally with leadership by ECL 16...
Yitzi 05-31-07, 12:27 PM	Shadow vs. Tyden Rayn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=12562786&posted=1#post12562786)is up.
McJarvis 05-31-07, 12:27 PM	:-) So far as I know, it's the only incorporeality that is an (ex) ability in the game. edit-> I should probably note that this strategy is purely avoidance. I'm pretty sure you're left with no way to hurt your opponent when you enact it...
Erithmu 05-31-07, 12:28 PM	My build can beat the dragon. True, but are you running that build in the CoCo on a regular basis?
hogarth 05-31-07, 12:28 PM	With 231,000gp to spend, that necklace of adaption is an easy buy against similar gas attacks. The first strategem is free -- the rest you have to pay to see. ;) True, but are you running that build in the CoCo on a regular basis? That wasn't what Sauro was asking, was it? ;)
Hirumajoe 05-31-07, 12:29 PM	True, but are you running that build in the CoCo on a regular basis? My psion (shaper) is on the books, although not on the roster. Due to my self-imposed 1 character fighting at a time, he'll get run when Valen hits freeze and Kai is crafting. :) Which probably means not any time soon. :(
Zevox 05-31-07, 12:33 PM	*goes shopping again* So do I figure rewards on CR or ECL? ECL. This is an NPC fight against a PMG operator, not a monster fight. It uses ECL to determine the match, rewards, the whole enchilada. CR matters not at all. Zevox
Hirumajoe 05-31-07, 12:34 PM	:-) So far as I know, it's the only incorporeality that is an (ex) ability in the game. edit-> I should probably note that this strategy is purely avoidance. I'm pretty sure you're left with no way to hurt your opponent when you enact it... Astral Constructs. Anti-magic field merely surpresses magic, doesn't prevent it. You manifest and then move out of the area. The construct should pop into existance. I think. There is alot to be said for the Metacreativity discipline. :)
Khaim 05-31-07, 12:41 PM	CR matters not at all. Why does it matter for monster fights, anyways?
Zevox 05-31-07, 12:42 PM	Why does it matter for monster fights, anyways? Because many, if not most, monsters have only a CR, so thats all we have to go by for them, and thus to make it standardized we use CR for all monster fights. Zevox
MitzaVolchenko 05-31-07, 12:46 PM	@All I have posted up everything I have thus far and will correct the lizard/ construct the ankheg in a bit...tired of staring at the board for the moment being...going to shoot some folks and give my eyes a rest... @Zevox Thanks for the look over. I should have Celia and possibly one other done tonight :)
Abyssal Stalker 05-31-07, 12:57 PM	Yes, Energy Missile is broken, for two reasons - first, +1 DC/pp, which gets the DC up insanely quickly (twice as fast as with any other power except Energy Stun!). For example, consider a 10th-level Psion using that power - lets presume int 22, fairly average for that level, and full augmentation. You'd be looking at DC 10+6int+2level+7augment = 25, or 27 with electricity. Compare that to Energy Bolt, which would be DC 10+6int+3level+2augment = 21, or 23 with electricity (the same with Energy Ball, just +1level -1augment comparbly). Yeah, EM is much better. Then take a look at a Wizard of the same level and int - to get even close, they need to use a 5th level spell (either heightened lower-level or Cone of Cold, for instance), which nets them DC 10+6int+5level = 21, or at best they can add +3 with feats (spell focus/greater focus/tattoo focus) for 24. Yep, even with an investment of 3 (possibly 4 if its a heightened spell) feats, that power still beats them in terms of DC. Thats broken right there. Then second theres its ability to target up to 5 creatures at full power each within 15' of each other. Theres no other second-level spell or power that does anything like that. The only area power available at that level has a 10' radius, which is less than EM, and no spells at that low a level have an AoE unless they're support-type (i.e. Bless, Sleep, etc). Theres nothing else at that level capable of targeting that many creatures for that kind of damage, much less with a DC that scales that fast. So, yes, that power is definitely broken. If we were to implement the errata of Complete Psionic that reduces the DC to scale at +1/2pp, that'd help a lot, but we decided not to for some reason. Zevox And it goes without mentioning that you need resistance to all the different energy types if you want to protect yourself from them...
templer10 05-31-07, 01:02 PM	And it goes without mentioning that you need resistance to all the different energy types if you want to protect yourself from them... or you need to be level 7 psion and take energy adaptation and by level 9 almost Ignore energy based powers/spells altoghter.... (if we are talking about broken powers that 1 takes the cake in my opinion.)
TelinArtho 05-31-07, 01:06 PM	True, but are you running that build in the CoCo on a regular basis? Well, that's why I'd be looking at Bulgar and see how he does. The phrenic template is not something I particularly care for, but I think my budding dragon slayer might have a decent shot at ECL16. I'm deliberately not working out the fine details, but its looking like I can still trip with a decent chance of success and most of its powers are short range - so I should be able to get close enough to trip (100ft with a bola). And if I can bring it down to melee - I think it is all over for it. As for saving throws, as a 14th level cleric, he'd have access to a +14 resistance bonus for one save and has base saves of +12/+4/+9 without abilities and items to modify them. Hit points would be sitting around 126+ (depending on if I boosted him with an amulet of health) and I'd have access to 7th level cleric spells - Spell Resistance, Righteous Might, etc would all be available to him. The biggest unknown is the dragon's equipment, and that would really be the huge difference. I'm not saying it would be a cakewalk - but I'm saying he has a decent chance of survival.
Macbrea 05-31-07, 01:16 PM	Greater Earth Elemental vs Valen Sky in the sewers is up.
Hirumajoe 05-31-07, 01:21 PM	Greater Earth Elemental vs Valen Sky in the sewers is up. Thank you very much for the run. No objections from this quarter. :)
Macbrea 05-31-07, 01:23 PM	Like I said..... I don't think any of the 9th or 10th levels could beat that creature in the sewers.
Macbrea 05-31-07, 01:25 PM	Actually.. I would like to see any of the other pitlords run that against four 9th or 10th level characters. :P It's the main reason I suggested awhile back for the 10-15 league. All monster fights have to be 2 characters.
TelinArtho 05-31-07, 01:30 PM	Actually.. I would like to see any of the other pitlords run that against four 9th or 10th level characters. :P It's the main reason I suggested awhile back for the 10-15 league. All monster fights have to be 2 characters. If a cleric is prepared for that level of fight - a simple dismissal would have a decent chance of ending the fight right there (DC21-21HD+10CL = DC10 vs will save +6). A red wizard with some circle magic could make the chance a lot worse and a more optimized cleric could certainly push that DC up a few more points. No - its not a guaranteed win - but its something.
Macbrea 05-31-07, 01:32 PM	I was suggesting any 4 of our characters vs it. :P
Erithmu 05-31-07, 01:40 PM	Owen will join that group ... in his campaign form. He has Dismissal at a modified DC 13, with a quick doom spell or something would be a save to make
Rauul 05-31-07, 01:47 PM	Shadow vs. Tyden Rayn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=12562786&posted=1#post12562786)is up. Thanks for the run... Silly putting a sniper in the Cavern was almost gonna just surrender but thats not my style
Usurpator 05-31-07, 02:21 PM	Problem 2: Solon is actually lvl 4, not lvl 3. It seems never levelled him after last fight, although I did add the fight result to his sheet, so for this fight it shouldn't be a problem, since he's essentially the same char, only with 6500 XP. But obviously would have preferred to level him before starting a 3FC. Oh wel...
Usurpator 05-31-07, 02:43 PM	I am looking over Khaim and I see he is lacking a spell component pouch, yet the spells he has prepared are all V,S,M. Does this mean he isn't able to use his spells?
McJarvis 05-31-07, 02:45 PM	I am looking over Khaim and I see he is lacking a spell component pouch, yet the spells he has prepared are all V,S,M. Does this mean he isn't able to use his spells? Usually it's a prison violation & we let the gladiator buy a spell component pouch mid-cycle. Especially for new-comers.
Usurpator 05-31-07, 02:50 PM	Usually it's a prison violation & we let the gladiator buy a spell component pouch mid-cycle. Especially for new-comers. Well, not having a spell component pouch is not a violation in itself, no rule is broken, the character just can't cast any 'M' spells. If the character does cast spells in a fight it is a Pitlord error at most. I'm quite happy to grant Psellus a spell component pouch for this fight, after all, Khaim has graciously granted me the use of Horus, my familiar.
McJarvis 05-31-07, 02:54 PM	Well, not having a spell component pouch is not a violation in itself, no rule is broken, the character just can't cast any 'M' spells. If the character does cast spells in a fight it is a Pitlord error at most. I'm quite happy to grant Psellus a spell component pouch for this fight, after all, Khaim has graciously granted me the use of Horus, my familiar. It stands to reason that if someone memorizes (M) spells they have a spell component pouch-> thus obviously they didn't disclose that purchase on their sheet. Thus it's a violation. Either we use that logic or people get nailed mid 3FC without a spell-pouch & have to auto-lose their next two matches. Oddly, this happens often enough that we should just houserule that wizards must come with 5 less gp and a pouch stapled to their hips ;)
Macbrea 05-31-07, 02:57 PM	It has been allowed multiple times for a purchase of a pouch mid cycle.
Usurpator 05-31-07, 03:10 PM	It stands to reason that if someone memorizes (M) spells they have a spell component pouch-> thus obviously they didn't disclose that purchase on their sheet. Thus it's a violation. It still doesn't make it a violation, you have a violation if you carry it without purchasing it, or purchase it without mentioning it anywhere else. Forgetting to buy and equip something obvious is not a violation however you look at it. But I'm all for allowing such oversights to be corrected this mid-cycle. People might forget to bring ammunition as well. Or forget to buy a saddle.
SauroGrenom 05-31-07, 03:13 PM	I am looking over Khaim and I see he is lacking a spell component pouch, yet the spells he has prepared are all V,S,M. Does this mean he isn't able to use his spells? This kind of thing happens. We should be nice about it. Just let the character have a spell component pouch... It would be terribly pedantic to not allow the character to cast any spells due to such a minor error. Kind of reminds me of an early battle with Kracknol when he just purchased his powerstoring flail. He had the gold for it, he spent the gold for it, I just forgot to edit the gp value listed next to the item. And someone gave me hell for it. The pitlord said the weapon was +1 flail because it was my mistake... Needless to say, that bothered me.
Macbrea 05-31-07, 03:13 PM	The problem without allowing it is it only results in the player restarting the character. There is no point in messing with the paperwork just to have the character have to be restarted to the point one week prior. Over something is silly as a spell component pouch.
McJarvis 05-31-07, 03:16 PM	Forgetting to buy and equip something obvious is not a violation however you look at it. It is if you're actively using it. This is more or less an isolated version of this kind of violation: and we have a long standing tradition of "treating" it as such. [Though NiQil will be able to better inform you whether any of those prison reports stuck]
Usurpator 05-31-07, 03:24 PM	I've already allowed it, why are people still arguing about that it 'should be allowed'? The rule of thumb was that if you make a minor mistake, it's up to your opponent to allow it right? @MacBrea: I'm totally confused over what you are trying to say, restarting a character? Huh? I don't get what you're trying to tell.
TelinArtho 05-31-07, 03:25 PM	I've already allowed it, why are people still arguing about that it 'should be allowed'? The rule of thumb was that if you make a minor mistake, it's up to your opponent to allow it right? Certainly. And the newer the player - the more lenient I am about what qualifies as a "minor mistake."
Macbrea 05-31-07, 03:30 PM	Example: I build a Wizard 3 and forget a pouch. I fight 1 fight in which the pitlord tells me I cannot cast spells because I don't have a pouch and I cannot buy it until the end of the 3FC. You are now left with two options: Three week plan 3 weeks of losses because your a commoner or Two week plan 1 week loss retire character Same Character build with pouch and fight week 1
McJarvis 05-31-07, 03:32 PM	I've already allowed it, why are people still arguing about that it 'should be allowed'? The rule of thumb was that if you make a minor mistake, it's up to your opponent to allow it right? I maintain that I never argue for the sake of influencing events in the CoCo, and thus am one of the few that are never biased. Of course, this also confuses a fair number of people on why I post at all.... @MacBrea: I'm totally confused over what you are trying to say, restarting a character? Huh? I don't get what you're trying to tell. Player makes brand new level 3 character named Bob. Player forgot to give Bob a spell-pouch & set him to ready. Bob gets defeated because he can't cast spells. Bob must live with next two fights without the pouch. So naturally the player retires Bob and creates a revolutionary character named Bill, who just happens to have Bob's exact stats. Plus a spell pouch. That's what Macbrea was saying would happen if you couldn't buy a spell pouch mid-cycle.
Macbrea 05-31-07, 03:33 PM	And yes, it is upto the opponent. Generally speaking, we have always allowed the purchasing of nessessary spell pouches and spell focus. That are the result of errors.
Usurpator 05-31-07, 03:52 PM	Well, I'm all for leniency, but I remember clearly being told by Cat I didn't have me psionic focus because I didn't prebuff it in one Flamehair fight. Telling him that with an auto-success on the Concentration check, and with no disadvantages and only advantages to do so, I would think it redundant to mention it as a prebuff and overly legalistic to require it. Same thing with addressing powerstones and casting read magic to decipher your scrolls. Not allowing a powerstoring flail because the right amount of gp. isn't mentioned next to it, is overly legalistic as well if you ask me.
MitzaVolchenko 05-31-07, 03:54 PM	Last time I had this one happen, I put it in as a prison violation and allowed the character its holy symbol/spell pouch with the statement that I would update the violation when the items were added...worked out just fine and his opponent was cool with it :)
TelinArtho 05-31-07, 03:57 PM	Well, I'm all for leniency, but I remember clearly being told by Cat I didn't have me psionic focus because I didn't prebuff it in one Flamehair fight. Telling him that with an auto-success on the Concentration check, and with no disadvantages and only advantages to do so, I would think it redundant to mention it as a prebuff and overly legalistic to require it. Same thing with addressing powerstones and casting read magic to decipher your scrolls. Not allowing a powerstoring flail because the right amount of gp. isn't mentioned next to it, is overly legalistic as well if you ask me. Well in all frankness, what Cat did and what the rest of us do is a completely different beast. In any case, whatever the oversight is - it is up to the opponent to decide whether it should be allowed.
TelinArtho 05-31-07, 05:42 PM	I have only received one set of tactics out of three at this point. It would be great to have one of the remaining two tomorrow so I can get one fight done (time permitting). Otherwise - the fights will be outstanding until Monday.
Usurpator 05-31-07, 05:58 PM	I have only received one set of tactics out of three at this point. It would be great to have one of the remaining two tomorrow so I can get one fight done (time permitting). Otherwise - the fights will be outstanding until Monday. I'm PM-ing my two pages of tactics now.
TheMagister 05-31-07, 07:20 PM	Like I said..... I don't think any of the 9th or 10th levels could beat that creature in the sewers. I'd give Hood even odds. A readied action Manyshot with all the trimmings plus 50% miss chance for the monster vs. touch AC 15 (7+8 imp. cover). I think he might be able to pull it off with judicious use of vigor. On my next 3fc I'll be buying him that ring of spell storing and Bob'll be able to cast shield other on Hood while Hood shares Vigor with him. After that, I'd give Hood MUCH better than even odds. :)
Khaim 05-31-07, 08:35 PM	I am looking over Khaim and I see he is lacking a spell component pouch, yet the spells he has prepared are all V,S,M. Does this mean he isn't able to use his spells? This means that Khaim much prefers psionics over silly bat guano spellcasting.
templer10 05-31-07, 08:46 PM	I have only received one set of tactics out of three at this point. It would be great to have one of the remaining two tomorrow so I can get one fight done (time permitting). Otherwise - the fights will be outstanding until Monday. You got mine?
TelinArtho 05-31-07, 09:07 PM	Yes I did.
Zevox 05-31-07, 11:20 PM	Well, I'm all for leniency, but I remember clearly being told by Cat I didn't have me psionic focus because I didn't prebuff it in one Flamehair fight. Telling him that with an auto-success on the Concentration check, and with no disadvantages and only advantages to do so, I would think it redundant to mention it as a prebuff and overly legalistic to require it. Same thing with addressing powerstones and casting read magic to decipher your scrolls. And yet Cat was allowed to cast with Harvester just fine when he was caught without a Holy Symbol... :nonono: Personally, I allow such oversights to pass, providing the player buys the requisite item after the fight. The only time I didn't is when the player actually didn't have enough money for a spell component pouch - and he still managed to win anyway. Zevox
McJarvis 06-01-07, 12:46 PM	I'd give Hood even odds. A readied action Manyshot with all the trimmings plus 50% miss chance for the monster vs. touch AC 15 (7+8 imp. cover). I think he might be able to pull it off with judicious use of vigor. On my next 3fc I'll be buying him that ring of spell storing and Bob'll be able to cast shield other on Hood while Hood shares Vigor with him. After that, I'd give Hood MUCH better than even odds. :) The thing has Dr 10/-...that'd be pretty tough for hood to overcome, I think. Especially when paired with 200 hp.
Zevox 06-01-07, 02:44 PM	@ Telin - Tactics for Mithos Durrol (vs Lord Lorian) sent. Dice, if you're going to do Mithos some favors for once, now would be the time to do 'em. Zevox
TelinArtho 06-01-07, 03:44 PM	Kitaya (Usurpator) vs Dark the Blue Shaper 5 (Unknown Monster)
templer10 06-01-07, 06:33 PM	zwei VS 4 ogres is done and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12577381&postcount=921).
Zevox 06-01-07, 07:02 PM	...you posted that in the Characters thread, you know.
templer10 06-01-07, 07:33 PM	...you posted that in the Characters thread, you know. oops - edited and moved.
MitzaVolchenko 06-01-07, 07:43 PM	Juggernaut vs. General Zaroff is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12577453&postcount=922)
Khaim 06-01-07, 07:46 PM	Juggernaut vs. General Zaroff is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12577453&postcount=922) Well there's a sore loser if I ever saw one.
MitzaVolchenko 06-01-07, 07:49 PM	zwei VS 4 ogres is done and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12577381&postcount=921). Zwei doesn't put her bow away to melee. That is wasted move actions for her as she can attack ad even flurry while holding the bow...beyond thta I'll have to map the fight to see what is what...I'll update violation when fight is finalized.
templer10 06-01-07, 07:58 PM	Zwei doesn't put her bow away to melee. That is wasted move actions for her as she can attack ad even flurry while holding the bow...beyond thta I'll have to map the fight to see what is what...I'll update violation when fight is finalized. hmm- noted- i dont think it will make a diffrence- if i remmber correctly you didnt waste rounds for doing that but i might be wrong - ill be out most of tommarow so go over the fight and point out if there are some fight altering errors, but i think that there isnt that much room for changes since you died from just 2 attacks in total out of maybe 5 that they actually were in range to attack- and you attacked every time it was possible for you to do so. even getting that second force screen wouldnt have helped you since all attacks that hit did it on 30+ rolls. sorry - i was in your corner for the whole fight (the brave and fast monk vs the lumbering giants).:weep:
MitzaVolchenko 06-01-07, 08:23 PM	hmm- noted- i dont think it will make a diffrence- if i remmber correctly you didnt waste rounds for doing that but i might be wrong - ill be out most of tommarow so go over the fight and point out if there are some fight altering errors, but i think that there isnt that much room for changes since you died from just 2 attacks in total out of maybe 5 that they actually were in range to attack- and you attacked every time it was possible for you to do so. even getting that second force screen wouldnt have helped you since all attacks that hit did it on 30+ rolls. sorry - i was in your corner for the whole fight (the brave and fast monk vs the lumbering giants).:weep: N worries...if I have time to run a map for it and fie toothed comb it, I will. If not no big deal. Thanks for the run :)
templer10 06-02-07, 11:16 AM	Lightwolf Vs razorfang is done and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12582018&postcount=923) - fairly predictable result althrough SOMEONE who's name wont be mentioned made me roll a Whole lot of grapple rolls sigh which lengtented the whole thing.
Sjiggie 06-02-07, 11:46 AM	Anybody seen Sjiggie? Sorry for my absence but my harddisk on my laptop is broken so I can't use it anymore currently I have a spare laptop from my parents till I buy a new one. I will start the quest/mq in a moment. -Sjiggie
Macbrea 06-02-07, 02:55 PM	Lightwolf Vs razorfang is done and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12582018&postcount=923) - fairly predictable result althrough SOMEONE who's name wont be mentioned made me roll a Whole lot of grapple rolls sigh which lengtented the whole thing. The character has grappled in every fight. I wouldn't want it to run differently. And had I not done that. I would have died on round 3 instead of much later.
templer10 06-02-07, 03:58 PM	The character has grappled in every fight. I wouldn't want it to run differently. And had I not done that. I would have died on round 3 instead of much later. the thing i was wondering really is why did you bother with doing the attack option in grapple? you needed 20 to hit and do dmg with that option and if you just chosen to do grapple checks for dmg you would have had better chance to make the check (55% chance without the RoE) so even with lower dmg you might have killed him.
Zevox 06-02-07, 06:38 PM	Solon the Usurper vs Psellus the Frail is done. Zevox
Rauul 06-02-07, 09:50 PM	Ok... Well before i post rewards and because I Don't want to be called names like Mitza and Macbrea were... Will someone please look over this fight.. and make sure i did damage correctly on the one hit crit shot.. Izumi vs. The Battlesong Duet ECL 8 [Sewer] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12550157&postcount=910) I will post awards and finish it up when i get a neutral party to verify the rolls and math.. thank you..
Macbrea 06-02-07, 10:15 PM	Crits a crit.. post reward.
Erithmu 06-02-07, 10:17 PM	Ok... Well before i post rewards and because I Don't want to be called names like Mitza and Macbrea were... Will someone please look over this fight.. and make sure i did damage correctly on the one hit crit shot.. Izumi vs. The Battlesong Duet ECL 8 [Sewer] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12550157&postcount=910) I will post awards and finish it up when i get a neutral party to verify the rolls and math.. thank you.. 2 things: 1) You cannot declare power attack for an AoO. Power Attack's first three words are "On your Action..." 2) Tessero can't activate CoPS on the AoO as it is a free action not an immediate action.
Yitzi 06-02-07, 10:20 PM	Lightwolf Vs razorfang is done and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12582018&postcount=923) - fairly predictable result althrough SOMEONE who's name wont be mentioned made me roll a Whole lot of grapple rolls sigh which lengtented the whole thing. You forgot to include arrow use count in results and rewards.
Rauul 06-02-07, 10:21 PM	2 things: 1) You cannot declare power attack for an AoO. Power Attack's first three words are "On your Action..." 2) Tessero can't activate CoPS on the AoO as it is a free action not an immediate action. Thanks.. that will make a big difference.. will adjust damage and continue..
Macbrea 06-02-07, 10:21 PM	hmm, learn something new each day.. hmmm
Macbrea 06-02-07, 10:26 PM	odd.. by his tactics did he ready to swing at 5 pt power attack? I think that might be legal..
Macbrea 06-02-07, 10:27 PM	You are allowed to ready any one standard, move or free action. It was legal for him to power attack as a readied action. But not CoPS.
Erithmu 06-02-07, 10:33 PM	That and it wasn't a ready, it was an AoO. But then again the AoO probably should not have happened as Izumi should only have had to move into Tessero's threat range rather than through it. Which just makes the crit kick in on the next attack.
Macbrea 06-02-07, 10:39 PM	she has a 20ft reach. So, she should be cast at by cupid. then swings a cupid. Why isn't Tessero readied to swing at Izumi?
MitzaVolchenko 06-02-07, 10:43 PM	How does swinging through an invisible large creature work? If Izumi swings from 20' she has to swing through invisible Tessero's square...sheesh...glad that wasn't mine to run...I'd still be sitting around staring at it or begging opinions from every pitlord on IM...except Macbrea...which means poor 'Rith would be trying to talk meout of circles (thanks for all of the times you have done that Rith).
Erithmu 06-02-07, 10:43 PM	Beats me. I think Rauul is missing the half speed moving through the sludge too. But I didn't see a 'readied action' in the fight description. *shrugs*
Macbrea 06-02-07, 10:46 PM	Well, technically.. I attacked a square. though my weapon is 20ft in range I am required to attack a single square, object or person. Any interviening object provides cover of sorts. Though, I am not sure you can gain cover from a person against a melee attack. Either way.. the last rounds should go. Cupid's readied action goes off. Izumi might swing.. Won't matter. Tessero's real actoin goes off, CoPS, Power attack, crit, -1 hps for izumi. So, don't bother editing the fight. Just power rewards.
Macbrea 06-02-07, 10:47 PM	So.. silly question. If I have dissolving weapon on my weapon at the end of this fight. Am I allowed to carry it over the 3FC?
Macbrea 06-02-07, 11:11 PM	Ok, I am going to state something that should be obvious for TM and MJ. I would assume TM wrote those tactics. A Large Invisibile character standing in 1ft of sludge is autospotted because it leaves a foot size whole in the sewage. You actually don't have total concealment (50%) when invisible underwater. You only have concealment (20%). You should remember this when writing tactics for them. It could be argued that Izumi should attack at the spot that the hidden target is in. I will not argue the point because of two things. The fight has been far to long and I personally don't care wether Izumi wins or loses fights. She is moving along at a perfectly fine pace either way.
Vathelokai 06-03-07, 12:33 AM	So.. silly question. If I have dissolving weapon on my weapon at the end of this fight. Am I allowed to carry it over the 3FC? You keep it. As dissolving touch, except your weapon is charged with acid until you make a successful attack.
Rauul 06-03-07, 12:34 AM	Ok... Izumi vs. The Battlesong Duet ECL 8 [Sewer] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12550157&postcount=910) Is Done.. Awards Passed out.. Any Complains.. Just say so.. i have a new trashcan just for them :)
Erithmu 06-03-07, 12:37 AM	@Vath: I think he is referring from one 3FC to the next and I though that as part of the 3FC things didn't carry over. Now ... that could get interesting as people will have the ability to extend spells into the 'over 24hr' range. But I thought we split it so that people couldn't spend 'one day' prebuffing dissolving weapons on every single weapon/arrow/dagger/armor spike and then go into the arena the 'next day' with 'free prebuffs'
Zevox 06-03-07, 12:41 AM	So.. silly question. If I have dissolving weapon on my weapon at the end of this fight. Am I allowed to carry it over the 3FC? If you mean mid-cycle (just finished fight 1 or 2): yes. Anything that lasts long enough can carry over mid-cycle. If you mean between cycles (just finished fight 3): no. Nothing carries over between cycles. Zevox
Vathelokai 06-03-07, 01:11 AM	Ah, yes. Zevox is correct. Misunderstanding.
Abyssal Stalker 06-03-07, 03:22 AM	But how about poison? Our rules clearly say that poison doesn't carry over to the next fight. (Somewhere under skills/poisonmaking, I don't bother to search it but I'm sure it's there)
NiQil 06-03-07, 03:49 AM	But how about poison? Our rules clearly say that poison doesn't carry over to the next fight. (Somewhere under skills/poisonmaking, I don't bother to search it but I'm sure it's there) I believe that rule also went out the window when the 3FC came in, thought I haven't had cause to look at the poison rules in a long time, so I could be wrong.
Abyssal Stalker 06-03-07, 03:55 AM	Important Note: With the exception of "permanent" effects, no prebuff carries over from one 3-Fight Cycle to the next! You have to recharge your Ring of Counterspell, rebuy anything from the NPC Service, Poison must be reapplied, and so on. Pitlords have to write such things under expendables. They carry over to the next fight within a 3-Fight Cycle though. Ah, nevermind. I've been reading this wrong for a long time. My mistake.
Zevox 06-03-07, 05:14 AM	You were probably just remembering it from before the 3FC was implemented, when it said that poison never carried over between battles. Zevox
Usurpator 06-03-07, 07:40 AM	Kitaya (Usurpator) vs Dark the Blue Shaper 5 (Unknown Monster) Can't say I'm happy with the result, and totally disappointed because there were *no* improvisations made by the Pitlord, which I think should happen, because without knowing your opponent, and unable to adjust tactics on the fly, it's really a Pitlord's battle. In any case, it does not feel like my character's battle at all. Frankly I feel it's just stupid. I wrote two full pages of tactics, and there was little tactics to it. Next time I'll just surrender, less frustration. I don't think I had any fun monster fight yet in my CoCo career. Telin, I hope at least had fun doing this, because if you had little fun doing this, and I had no fun, what is the point again?
Usurpator 06-03-07, 08:12 AM	A monster fight question: Are monsters allowed to 'go nova'? That is, spend all their spells/pp. in one fight. I sort of assumed it is rather unfair if they could while characters cannot, they already don't have to be gentle with expendables since spending everything in one match doesn't have long lasting effects for them. I'm seeing the Blue in his match against Kitaya spent 26 out of 35 max. pp., that's why I'm asking. I sort of assumed I had to face only 12pp. or something in that direction. Clearly, next to the other unfair and unfun things about monster fights, this makes it even more unfair.
Usurpator 06-03-07, 08:13 AM	Solon the Usurper vs Psellus the Frail is done. Zevox Thanks for running it Zevox! Glad I included the contingency to use disarm or ray of enfeeblement depending if he was holding his crossbow! Disarming with his tactics and abilities would have been pretty disabling as well. My original plan was Eldricht Knight for Solon. @Khaim: I'm never going to choose a simple shooting match unless I got at least 50/50 odds or there is no other decent option. I counted on you using at least 3 pp. buffing, leaving 3d6 damage (average 10.5) and your crossbow as only possible other means of doing damage. Against Solon's 18hp that shouldn't be enough. Disarming you of it would have rid Psellus of all his damage dealing possibilities. Grappling was a secondary option, not a great option, but better odds than a shoot-out.
Khaim 06-03-07, 08:26 AM	@Khaim: I'm never going to choose a simple shooting match unless I got at least 50/50 odds or there is no other decent option. I counted on you using at least 3 pp. buffing, leaving 3d6 damage (average 10.5) and your crossbow as only possible other means of doing damage. Against Solon's 18hp that shouldn't be enough. Disarming you of it would have rid Psellus of all his damage dealing possibilities. Grappling was a secondary option, not a great option, but better odds than a shoot-out. You did quite well in countering my preferred (read: only) tactic. I could have probably pull through by including a contingency of "if he rushes me, blast him with rays" and you would have gone down to electric death. Also I need a ring of protection from enfeeblement. Str 2 is painful.
McJarvis 06-03-07, 08:29 AM	Ok, I am going to state something that should be obvious for TM and MJ. I would assume TM wrote those tactics. A Large Invisibile character standing in 1ft of sludge is autospotted because it leaves a foot size whole in the sewage. You actually don't have total concealment (50%) when invisible underwater. You only have concealment (20%). You should remember this when writing tactics for them. It could be argued that Izumi should attack at the spot that the hidden target is in. I will not argue the point because of two things. The fight has been far to long and I personally don't care wether Izumi wins or loses fights. She is moving along at a perfectly fine pace either way. This should be taken into consideration on the Izumi vs TBD fight, though Mac was only partially right. Izumi auto-knows which space a large invisible creature is in, but does not get an "autospot". When invisible creatures are "underwater" they are reduced to 20% concealment, but I really don't think having water up to your ankles is anywhere near enough "underwater"-ness to qualify for this. I'd like it if Raul could edit the fight in consideration of this. I guess it would be a pitlord call on what Izumi would do when presented with a large pair of footprints & tessero/equalizer all standing in a row. [Especially since Izumi's tactics contradict themselves, by first saying she will walk towards Tessero & attack him, and then later saying the order of priority to kill opponents are Cupid, Tessero, Equalizer...though perhaps it isn't. Maybe Mac wanted to hit tessero once & then kill cupid while she was trying to heal tess?]
templer10 06-03-07, 08:34 AM	A monster fight question: Are monsters allowed to 'go nova'? That is, spend all their spells/pp. in one fight. I sort of assumed it is rather unfair if they could while characters cannot, they already don't have to be gentle with expendables since spending everything in one match doesn't have long lasting effects for them. I'm seeing the Blue in his match against Kitaya spent 26 out of 35 max. pp., that's why I'm asking. I sort of assumed I had to face only 12pp. or something in that direction. Clearly, next to the other unfair and unfun things about monster fights, this makes it even more unfair. yes they do when you get a classed oponent which kind of suck But on the other hand they are also done with 25 point buy and less loot, witch is an advantage to the fighter. also they are at least "supposed" to be made without looking at the fighter sheet since they supposed to be made as any other gladiator.
Usurpator 06-03-07, 08:35 AM	You did quite well in countering my preferred (read: only) tactic. I could have probably pull through by including a contingency of "if he rushes me, blast him with rays" and you would have gone down to electric death. Also I need a ring of protection from enfeeblement. Str 2 is painful. Well, I carefully phrased it to avoid the appearance of a rush, since you might write such a counter-tactic. If I saw you too fast, I would have shot an arrow, goading you into erecting defenses.
Usurpator 06-03-07, 08:39 AM	yes they do when you get a classed oponent which kind of suck But on the other hand they are also done with 25 point buy and less loot, witch is an advantage to the fighter. Give them full loot and 36 points then.
hogarth 06-03-07, 10:24 AM	A monster fight question: Are monsters allowed to 'go nova'? That is, spend all their spells/pp. in one fight. I sort of assumed it is rather unfair if they could while characters cannot, they already don't have to be gentle with expendables since spending everything in one match doesn't have long lasting effects for them. I'm seeing the Blue in his match against Kitaya spent 26 out of 35 max. pp., that's why I'm asking. I sort of assumed I had to face only 12pp. or something in that direction. Clearly, next to the other unfair and unfun things about monster fights, this makes it even more unfair. Not surprisingly, this is also something I have complained about in this post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11751481&highlight=psion+monster#post11751481).
TelinArtho 06-03-07, 10:24 AM	Can't say I'm happy with the result, and totally disappointed because there were *no* improvisations made by the Pitlord, which I think should happen, because without knowing your opponent, and unable to adjust tactics on the fly, it's really a Pitlord's battle. In any case, it does not feel like my character's battle at all. Frankly I feel it's just stupid. I wrote two full pages of tactics, and there was little tactics to it. Next time I'll just surrender, less frustration. I don't think I had any fun monster fight yet in my CoCo career. Telin, I hope at least had fun doing this, because if you had little fun doing this, and I had no fun, what is the point again? I don't know what to tell you Usurpator. Is there a specific point where you felt improvisation was necessary, warranted? Your tactics were pretty clear up to the point of the first astral construct and withdrawing from them was pretty clear after they started appearing. What exactly do you feel is warranting of improvisation?
Macbrea 06-03-07, 11:06 AM	I'd like it if Raul could edit the fight in consideration of this. I guess it would be a pitlord call on what Izumi would do when presented with a large pair of footprints & tessero/equalizer all standing in a row. [Especially since Izumi's tactics contradict themselves, by first saying she will walk towards Tessero & attack him, and then later saying the order of priority to kill opponents are Cupid, Tessero, Equalizer...though perhaps it isn't. Maybe Mac wanted to hit tessero once & then kill cupid while she was trying to heal tess?] Isn't really worth the pitlords time. It won't change the fight in anyway.. which is why I said just go ahead and post the rewards. My assumption was I would run into Tessero standing about 20ft in front of Cupid. Cupid would shoot some type of ranged combat/glitterdust at Izumi until Tessero had taken too much damage. At that point she would move up to heal and be within reach. Priority would be Cupid, Tessero then horse. As Tessero is deadly.. but with Cupid is pretty difficult to take down. The crit pretty much ended the fight outright. They almost always do.
NiQil 06-03-07, 03:56 PM	I don't know what to tell you Usurpator. Is there a specific point where you felt improvisation was necessary, warranted? Your tactics were pretty clear up to the point of the first astral construct and withdrawing from them was pretty clear after they started appearing. What exactly do you feel is warranting of improvisation? I think there is a problem with the Kitaya fight... Blue's have been errata'd to have a LA of +1. In the monster block, you have them listed as +0. This means that Kitaya faced an ECL 6 character at ECL 5. However, I am not up on my CR vs ECL rules, nor am I up on what was used on the monster charts, so I don't know if this changes things or not. But the stat block for the blue is definitely wrong.
Usurpator 06-03-07, 04:28 PM	I don't know what to tell you Usurpator. Is there a specific point where you felt improvisation was necessary, warranted? Your tactics were pretty clear up to the point of the first astral construct and withdrawing from them was pretty clear after they started appearing. What exactly do you feel is warranting of improvisation? Nothing really Telin. I said in the other thread that I would have probably run it just the way you did. You did just fine going by the rules and guidelines we have here at the CoCo. I just feel that it is very hard to be victorious in a fight with so many unknowns and so many options for Kitaya available. I could go ranged, flurry, spells, evade, fly, go invisible, etc. etc. But it all depends on my opponent. If you would have played Kitaya by your own insight, you would probably have won the fight, but now a simple extend power feat, and the fact that I didn't know NPCs were able to go nova kinda defeated my tactics. It's not you, it's the rules. The next time I will probably just say: 'play how you think Kitaya should play'. But then again, I would like to determine how my characters should play, that is part of my fun, and not to have a Pitlord determine it. But obviously with so many unknown variables I cannot write decent enough tactics to give me good enough odds.
Zevox 06-03-07, 05:16 PM	I think there is a problem with the Kitaya fight... Blue's have been errata'd to have a LA of +1. In the monster block, you have them listed as +0. This means that Kitaya faced an ECL 6 character at ECL 5. However, I am not up on my CR vs ECL rules, nor am I up on what was used on the monster charts, so I don't know if this changes things or not. But the stat block for the blue is definitely wrong. The Blue has LA+1, but not CR+1, and the sample Blue in the SRD/XPH is a 1st level Psion and CR 1. So a Blue Psion 5 is ECL 6, but CR 5. Since the latter is used for monster fights, the monster is correct. Zevox
Salrantol 06-03-07, 05:21 PM	6 Ogres vs. Malik of Black Robe is up. Much closer than I expected from CR3 monsters against a nova-ing level 8 wizard. Of course, Slain couldn't hit the ground with his lance, so that didn't help.
templer10 06-03-07, 06:44 PM	Blitzhkrig VS the dice (anger) is done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12595046&postcount=926)- the dice won.
NiQil 06-03-07, 06:55 PM	Blitzhkrig VS the dice (anger) is done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12595046&postcount=926)- the dice won. An arrow count, if you please.... Edit: Also, be aware that you did the saves wrong. You did not add in the Xeph racial bonus vs any of the spells that were saved against. Didn't make a difference here, but remember things like that for the future.
McJarvis 06-03-07, 11:08 PM	Blitzhkrig VS the dice (anger) is done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12595046&postcount=926)- the dice won. Thanks for the run. Tactics were made to make it as easy as possible on you :) In response to your question: The un-slotted spells are for re-memorization later in my 3FC. No use memorizing 3 Ghoul touch's if I'm going to only use 1 per fight. Obviously, the point of the character is to force opponents to be un-able to write proper tactics[Multiple types of save-or-dies, no clear objective to kill opponent, several "distraction" spells]. These kind of wizards were even more deadly when the 3FC wasn't around. [All of those "unslotted" spell slots would be different spells, and I would just count on only needing one of the group for any given fight] Of course, 'soon as I hit someone with see invis I'm toast. -_-. @NiQil: It was a pleasure fighting you without my owning a light warhorse, for once. edit-> Rewards are wrong. Anger used 3 SL's [Ghoul touch =2 + Shocking grasp = 1]
Rauul 06-03-07, 11:21 PM	Ok i have a Problem... It's more of an ethnical Problem.. Phacce (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12375444#post12375444) has 6 Combat trained Donkeys at ECL 3, in this weeks fight Yea i Know they are Challenge Rating: 1/6, meaning it's 100% within the CA rules to bring 6.. Now is it a move action per Donkey, to get it Do something? Since they are Solitary Creatures.. (This task involves commanding an animal to perform a task or trick that it knows) before I run this fight... I want to make sure I am doing it right.. 6 mules, a Hawk and an Eagle.. owned by a ECL 3 Goblin... Almost as bad a Zax and his Insect Tribe
McJarvis 06-03-07, 11:22 PM	Ok i have a Problem... It's more of an ethnical Problem.. Phacce (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12375444#post12375444) has 6 Combat trained Donkeys at ECL 3, in this weeks fight Yea i Know they are Challenge Rating: 1/6, meaning it's 100% within the CA rules to bring 6.. Now is it a move action per Donkey, to get it Do something? Since they are Solitary Creatures.. (This task involves commanding an animal to perform a task or trick that it knows) before I run this fight... I want to make sure I am doing it right.. 6 mules, a Hawk and an Eagle.. owned by a ECL 3 Goblin... Almost as bad a Zax and his Insect Tribe This is my understanding of the rules-> and I pitlorded a fight with one of Hogarth's characters doing "the donkey" thing this way. I think if an individual donkey is attacked, it will attack back[alone....& if this is at range, they should close/attack]
Erithmu 06-03-07, 11:25 PM	Ok i have a Problem... It's more of an ethnical Problem.. Phacce (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12375444#post12375444) has 6 Combat trained Donkeys at ECL 3, in this weeks fight Yea i Know they are Challenge Rating: 1/6, meaning it's 100% within the CA rules to bring 6.. Now is it a move action per Donkey, to get it Do something? Since they are Solitary Creatures.. (This task involves commanding an animal to perform a task or trick that it knows) before I run this fight... I want to make sure I am doing it right.. 6 mules, a Hawk and an Eagle.. owned by a ECL 3 Goblin... Almost as bad a Zax and his Insect TribeI think you mean ... 'ethical' ... the other word could be ... ugly. yea ... move action to get each donkey to do something, with the respective HA check (which is DC 15 for trained, and DC 25 for push) Edit: most animals start out on the defend trick.
Zevox 06-04-07, 01:41 AM	I think you mean ... 'ethical' ... the other word could be ... ugly. yea ... move action to get each donkey to do something, with the respective HA check (which is DC 15 for trained, and DC 25 for push) Edit: most animals start out on the defend trick. DC 10 trained, actually. But yes, you need to use handle animal on each animal individually to get them to do anything, which is a full-round action for pushing (trick not known), move for a trick they know, or move/free (respectively) if its an animal companion. Zevox
Rauul 06-04-07, 02:25 AM	Gash vs. Phacce : ECL 3 [Arena] is done... The Mule Horde (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12587777&postcount=925) is Annoying... Ok so the 3rd mule should of gone and attacked... i made the Donkey Stubborn.. sue me.. If it was one of my Gladiator's fighting this fight (shadow)... I would of lost.. but he wouldn't of had any donkeys for next fight.. and possibly no familiar... If i am gonna loose.. I will make it hurt. I now see why NiQil almost always goes for the animal kill... But like I said Aura_Blade, don't give up..
UserNamer 06-04-07, 02:46 AM	Thanks for running, just a minor thing, you don't need to edit for these though: - my towershield can be found in the inventory of one of my mules But this wont change the result of the fight, so no edit is needed. Btw, how many mules have I lost now? Could you put this in the results sblock somewhere please Edit: Oh, no I see that u already listed that 1 mule died, sorry, didn't see that
NiQil 06-04-07, 02:50 AM	Gash vs. Phacce : ECL 3 [Arena] is done... The Mule Horde (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12587777&postcount=925) is Annoying... Ok so the 3rd mule should of gone and attacked... i made the Donkey Stubborn.. sue me.. If it was one of my Gladiator's fighting this fight (shadow)... I would of lost.. but he wouldn't of had any donkeys for next fight.. and possibly no familiar... If i am gonna loose.. I will make it hurt. I now see why NiQil almost always goes for the animal kill... But like I said Aura_Blade, don't give up.. I don't go for the animals for the sake of killing animals...I go for them if they would present me with a strategic advantage by not being there. This is true for horses in almost all cases, but is not always true in others (familiars, dogs, etc). Depends on the character I am running and the opponent.
Rauul 06-04-07, 02:59 AM	Thanks for running, just a minor thing, you don't need to edit for these though: - my towershield can be found in the inventory of one of my mules But this wont change the result of the fight, so no edit is needed. Btw, how many mules have I lost now? Could you put this in the results sblock somewhere please mules lost... 1, the other was at -4 when battle was over and is healed for your next fight.. Bah.. mule 3.. the one who wouldn't open for me... sorry..
Rauul 06-04-07, 03:01 AM	I don't go for the animals for the sake of killing animals...I go for them if they would present me with a strategic advantage by not being there. This is true for horses in almost all cases, but is not always true in others (familiars, dogs, etc). Depends on the character I am running and the opponent. True.. but in a battle like this one... I would of stacked them up like cord wood.. and hide in the corpses.. for 9 rds praying he would have to come down so i could beat on him...
UserNamer 06-04-07, 03:07 AM	9 rounds of praying would make me recast my spells :p
UserNamer 06-04-07, 03:09 AM	mules lost... 1, the other was at -4 when battle was over and is healed for your next fight.. Bah.. mule 3.. the one who wouldn't open for me... sorry.. no problem at all, the towershield would have probably gone 1/2 the current weight, in witch case I wouldn't be able to se it anyway
templer10 06-04-07, 10:24 AM	apocalypse VS unholy ninja is done and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12602325&postcount=927).
TelinArtho 06-04-07, 12:27 PM	Lord Lorian (templer10) vs Mithos Durrol (Zevox) is up. As pointed out to me by templer10, I changed the Energy Rays during the fight from memory to the dorje due to a few reasons - not the least of which is the lack of PPs to manifest them from memory and still be able to keep focus. I didn't change the attack from Mithos - since even if he succeeded in taking one down - he wouldn't have been able to take out the second and if he took out the dorje, the horse would still be alive to attack him. If Zevox desires for this change to be made - I will edit it in.
Zevox 06-04-07, 12:35 PM	Lord Lorian (templer10) vs Mithos Durrol (Zevox) is up. As pointed out to me by templer10, I changed the Energy Rays during the fight from memory to the dorje due to a few reasons - not the least of which is the lack of PPs to manifest them from memory and still be able to keep focus. I didn't change the attack from Mithos - since even if he succeeded in taking one down - he wouldn't have been able to take out the second and if he took out the dorje, the horse would still be alive to attack him. If Zevox desires for this change to be made - I will edit it in. Nah, don't bother. I knew the strategy was a long shot when I conceived it. Like my tactics said, I really needed a larger map, my Hippogriff mounts ready, or to be at a higher level to have a good shot there. Thanks for the run. Zevox
Yitzi 06-04-07, 01:00 PM	Longshot's monster fight is finally up-unlike (according to certain grumbles) most monster fights it was by no means an auto-win for either side.
Usurpator 06-04-07, 01:21 PM	Longshot's monster fight is finally up-unlike (according to certain grumbles) most monster fights it was by no means an auto-win for either side. Who grumbled about that then? Not me. Anyway, I see that you wrote tactics specifically against Longshot for the monsters. I don't think that is allowed. Of course, you could just remove the section that mentions specific counter-tactics, but I think it is intended that you write tactics pretending you don't know what the monsters are going to fight. Maybe an Elder could clarify this? Longshot also had the benefit of having 27 instead of the normal 18 pp available since it was his last fight, and he still wasn't able to pull it off against monsters that were fairly predictable (unlike NPC spellcasters).
templer10 06-04-07, 01:21 PM	Longshot's monster fight is finally up-unlike (according to certain grumbles) most monster fights it was by no means an auto-win for either side. i have a couple of questions. 1)the manticore has clumy manuverability in the air and 50 flight speed - it means he needs to move half forward each ROUND or fall, it also means that he CANT turn in place and must move forward in order to turn and each 45 degree turn cost him 10 feet of movement. in round 3 - the manticore cant attack on it's round - it has to move in order to maintain flight THEN to attack which it cant since iam not range. Round 5 - it's not clear why you Crawled INTO the path of the manticore when i asked to not be in range for it? if it was in order to avoid the howler - i could have manifested defensivly fairly easly with +13 concetration. in round 6 and above the whole thing breaks down completly - you had the manticore start a grapple but it cant do so since it didnt do half his move first, in fact it didnt move at all that round exept for 10 feet - I.E - it must fall to the lava and burn. rounds 7-10 - the manticore doesnt move at all while it's still flying so it must fall and burn. note that it cant use longshot's levitate to "hang on" since that isnt allowed by levitate- also it wouldnt hold it's weight since levitate at ML6 works on up to 600 LB, the manticore is more then that (1,000 by the SRD), so the manticore falls to her death at that point.
TelinArtho 06-04-07, 01:22 PM	The monster's stats (if classed or templated) and equipment are determined without looking at the player. The tactics are written with knowledge of the player's abilities.
Macbrea 06-04-07, 01:43 PM	Which of course is why monster are horridly deadly at higher levels. They are hard to beat even knowing what they are. But add the monster getting to look at you and write tactics. It becomes horridly deadly.
hogarth 06-04-07, 01:45 PM	Which of course is why monster are horridly deadly at higher levels. They are hard to beat even knowing what they are. But add the monster getting to look at you and write tactics. It becomes horridly deadly. I would amend that to say that "intelligent monsters are horridly deadly". From what I saw when I looked at monster fight results, unintelligent monsters with no treasure didn't win very often, but equipped, intelligent monsters were much harder to beat.
Usurpator 06-04-07, 01:47 PM	The monster's stats (if classed or templated) and equipment are determined without looking at the player. The tactics are written with knowledge of the player's abilities. Well, I stand corrected. You mean the monster's have the equivalent of some kind of unlimited knowledge ability without needing to invest in skills? The more I hear, the more unfairer it gets. In that case you went very gently on me with those tactics Telin.
TelinArtho 06-04-07, 01:54 PM	Well, I stand corrected. You mean the monster's have the equivalent of some kind of unlimited knowledge ability without needing to invest in skills? The more I hear, the more unfairer it gets. In that case you went very gently on me with those tactics Telin. I didn't go any more gentle with you on those tactics than any other monster fight I have run. In fact - those tactics would be pretty similar to my tactics had I actually had that character as an active character.
Macbrea 06-04-07, 01:59 PM	I would amend that to say that "intelligent monsters are horridly deadly". From what I saw when I looked at monster fight results, unintelligent monsters with no treasure didn't win very often, but equipped, intelligent monsters were much harder to beat. Actually.. I would be curious if those numbers could be broken down by pitlord. I am betting some pitlords run their monster fight a tad rougher then others.
hogarth 06-04-07, 02:16 PM	Actually.. I would be curious if those numbers could be broken down by pitlord. I am betting some pitlords run their monster fight a tad rougher then others. Of course they can be broken down by pitlord. Let us know what you come up with. ;) The only specific pitlord I kept track of when I was looking at monster fights was Telin (gladiators 0, monsters 3 in the period I was looking at).
McJarvis 06-04-07, 02:18 PM	I would amend that to say that "intelligent monsters are horridly deadly". From what I saw when I looked at monster fight results, unintelligent monsters with no treasure didn't win very often, but equipped, intelligent monsters were much harder to beat. This is probably because monsters are the only things around here expected to act their int mod. Since no one plays "monster advocate", the unintelligent monsters often get autolossed on tactical errors alone. [IMO-> don't have any back-up facts]
Macbrea 06-04-07, 02:20 PM	Am downloading the battles thread to be able to search them alittle better. :P
hogarth 06-04-07, 02:38 PM	This is probably because monsters are the only things around here expected to act their int mod. Since no one plays "monster advocate", the unintelligent monsters often get autolossed on tactical errors alone. [IMO-> don't have any back-up facts] That's sometimes true, but in some cases you can tell that a lack of equipment really simplified the fight, such as in the case of Gundmir vs. 3 Skum. If those Skum had had ranged weapons, potions, tanglefoot bags, etc. available, they would have been much tougher, I think.
TheMagister 06-04-07, 02:56 PM	I need to put this calculation on Tessero's sheet... @Rauul - thanks for running the fight! If you could, I'd appreciate it if you could correct the fight rewards for me. Equalizer is treated as the ally of a 6th level character for the purposes of the ally penalty to xp/gp. That penalty is applied right after the ECL gp multiplier, but before anything else. After applying the ally penalty, you need to divide the team xp/gp gained by the number of members in the team (two, in this case) to get the xp/gp reward for each member of the team. Each team member has to match exactly in xp/gp gains (barring free actions or other money-making schemes). SO: An ECL 8 win generates +2,400 xp and +3,400 gp. Bringing Equalizer generates a 6.25% penalty to xp/gp. (2,400 x 6.25%) = 2,250 xp (3,400 x 6.25%) = 3,187 gp 2,250/2 = 1125 xp ea. 3,187/2 = 1593 gp ea. Again, I'd really appreciate it! Thanks, TM
Yitzi 06-04-07, 03:43 PM	i have a couple of questions. 1)the manticore has clumy manuverability in the air and 50 flight speed - it means he needs to move half forward each ROUND or fall, it also means that he CANT turn in place and must move forward in order to turn and each 45 degree turn cost him 10 feet of movement. A 45 degree trun doesn't cost him 10 ft, it's just that he has to move 10' between each 45' turn. in round 3 - the manticore cant attack on it's round - it has to move in order to maintain flight THEN to attack which it cant since iam not range. An attack can be made before or after(or during if you have the proper feat) a move action. It can attack then move. Round 5 - it's not clear why you Crawled INTO the path of the manticore when i asked to not be in range for it? if it was in order to avoid the howler - i could have manifested defensivly fairly easly with +13 concetration. And then been attacked by the howler again next round. You moved to avoid being killed by the howler, once you were going to move anyway, I had it be before manifesting so as to avoid having to worry about manifesting defensively.[/quote] in round 6 and above the whole thing breaks down completly - you had the manticore start a grapple but it cant do so since it didnt do half his move first, in fact it didnt move at all that round exept for 10 feet - I.E - it must fall to the lava and burn. rounds 7-10 - the manticore doesnt move at all while it's still flying so it must fall and burn. note that it cant use longshot's levitate to "hang on" since that isnt allowed by levitate- also it wouldnt hold it's weight since levitate at ML6 works on up to 600 LB, the manticore is more then that (1,000 by the SRD), so the manticore falls to her death at that point. I read the spell's limitation of 100 lbs/lvl as only for an object, going over it again it looks like I was probably mistaken, so I'll adjust accordingly. However, if it did fall, it would take Longshot with it. But since it probably wouldn't use such a tactic, I'll adjust it.
templer10 06-04-07, 03:55 PM	I read the spell's limitation of 100 lbs/lvl as only for an object, going over it again it looks like I was probably mistaken, so I'll adjust accordingly. However, if it did fall, it would take Longshot with it. But since it probably wouldn't use such a tactic, I'll adjust it. it means it cant grapple you know - since that thing isnt supposed to WANT to kill itself. without the Grapple i think it will have a much harder time killing me (barring horrid luck on the ranged spikes thing for me) and the howler will probably die faster due to energy retort and dorja but i might be wrong.
Yitzi 06-04-07, 04:03 PM	it means it cant grapple you know - since that thing isnt supposed to WANT to kill itself. without the Grapple i think it will have a much harder time killing me (barring horrid luck on the ranged spikes thing for me) and the howler will probably die faster due to energy retort and dorja but i might be wrong. Actually, it can grapple, so long as it acts to move the grapple.
templer10 06-04-07, 04:08 PM	Actually, it can grapple, so long as it acts to move the grapple. good for it- it can grapple - and only move the grapple at half speed once per round (as a standart action mind you) so it cant grapple for dmg AND move - and considering it still have to spend half it's move going forward... it can grapple - but it wont help it that much. after all i just need 1 or 2 more rounds per the previus dmg rolls to kill it.
Yitzi 06-04-07, 04:45 PM	Okay, looks like I have to revise it again.
Rauul 06-04-07, 04:57 PM	I need to put this calculation on Tessero's sheet... @Rauul - thanks for running the fight! If you could, I'd appreciate it if you could correct the fight rewards for me. Equalizer is treated as the ally of a 6th level character for the purposes of the ally penalty to xp/gp. That penalty is applied right after the ECL gp multiplier, but before anything else. After applying the ally penalty, you need to divide the team xp/gp gained by the number of members in the team (two, in this case) to get the xp/gp reward for each member of the team. Each team member has to match exactly in xp/gp gains (barring free actions or other money-making schemes). SO: An ECL 8 win generates +2,400 xp and +3,400 gp. Bringing Equalizer generates a 6.25% penalty to xp/gp. (2,400 x 6.25%) = 2,250 xp (3,400 x 6.25%) = 3,187 gp 2,250/2 = 1125 xp ea. 3,187/2 = 1593 gp ea. Again, I'd really appreciate it! Thanks, TM Yes yes you do need that in an Sblock, and pointed out to the pitlord... you have the only team in gladius.... Updated...
Yitzi 06-04-07, 05:36 PM	Longshot's monster fight is finally corrected. Phew! (This time, he won while 12 points into unconsiousness. But the others were unconsious from lethal damage and longshot was unconsious from nonlethal, so longshot wins.)
McJarvis 06-05-07, 01:29 PM	@NiQil/Templer: I just noticed, Anger's hawk should have hit on that first attack it made while invisible. Being invisible gives you a +2 to attack, so it actually rolled a (2)[roll]+6(norm)+2(invis)=10 vs Blitz's flat footed touch AC, which is 10. The only difference is Blitz saves on a few arrows. edit-> Ok, an arrow. Maybe I'm not being as helpful as I thought...though at least I re-learned how potent invisible familiars are at delivering touch spells :)
Zevox 06-05-07, 02:54 PM	So, has anyone seen Mitza? I don't think shes been around since Friday, and she had said she'd have Ceilia's fight done then... and she still has two fights in addition to that which aren't done... Zevox
Macbrea 06-05-07, 02:56 PM	Not sure.. last time I saw her she was heading home on Sunday about noon.
Zevox 06-05-07, 03:30 PM	Query: In the following map, does blue have LoS to red? http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Psyk,S,8,29;b=A rb,S,35,8;los=35,8,8,29,4 The line to red's NE corner seems to just clip the pillar, which makes me think he doesn't, but I figured I'd best double-check. Zevox
Macbrea 06-05-07, 03:33 PM	Blue doesn't have line of sight until red moves 1 square to the east. At that point he is allowed to make a spot check vs reds hide check. You are assumed automaticly to be hiding even if at -5 Hide check for full movememnt.
McJarvis 06-05-07, 03:36 PM	Query: In the following map, does blue have LoS to red? http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Psyk,S,8,29;b=A rb,S,35,8;los=35,8,8,29,4 The line to red's NE corner seems to just clip the pillar, which makes me think he doesn't, but I figured I'd best double-check. Zevox If you think about it in terms of infinitely thin lines, you can draw a line from red's NE corner to the corner of the pillar. Continue to line forever, and point of reference ABOVE that line doesn't actually clip the pillar. In this case, the thickness of the lines is confusing. If you follow that 45o degree angle down from the red's NE corner, you'll see that blue is clearly above it & therefore can see red.
Pitlords 06-05-07, 03:47 PM	I've updated the Character Actions post in the Character's thread to reflect the late fights. There's a lot of them - so I'm hoping some of them are picked up before the hard deadline tomorrow. I haven't updated credits yet. @Yitzi - when a fight result changes after the initial fight result is posted, you are required to send a PM to Piltords so that Powerratings can be updated correctly. I haven't fixed Longshot's powerrating yet - but will tomorrow.
Zevox 06-05-07, 03:49 PM	@Yitzi - when a fight result changes after the initial fight result is posted, you are required to send a PM to Piltords so that Powerratings can be updated correctly. I haven't fixed Longshot's powerrating yet - but will tomorrow. Bah, some of us just don't care about that. I've had two characters with messed up win/loss ratios and PRs that I never bothered to get fixed myself. Zevox
TelinArtho 06-05-07, 03:52 PM	Fixing them after even a week has gone by is a massive pain in the neck. I've got a couple myself. In this case though - the player is 2-0 and moves to 3-0 versus 2-1 when against a PR 1000 monster (meaning - the player lost a significant amount of his powerrating).
templer10 06-05-07, 03:54 PM	Bah, some of us just don't care about that. I've had two characters with messed up win/loss ratios and PRs that I never bothered to get fixed myself. Zevox yea but i do, thanks telin.
Yitzi 06-05-07, 04:16 PM	MitzaVolchenko, you do know that a fight that still says "soon" under the "the fight" section at the deadline is considered late, right?
McJarvis 06-05-07, 04:20 PM	MitzaVolchenko, you do know that a fight that still says "soon" under the "the fight" section at the deadline is considered late, right? In general it's considered proper etiquette around here to just leave the watching of deadlines to Pitlords. [Though that's an unwritten rule, I believe edit-> as are most rules of etiquette]
TheMagister 06-05-07, 04:32 PM	Although (and you can believe me) my fingers positively itch come Monday if I have characters in fights that haven't been run yet. I just don't understand why some people wait until the last minute. I totally understand for some folks (Telin and Macbrea come to mind). But there are others that just make me shake my head in wonder. I've resolved myself to view all pitlords as willing servants that donate their time and energy for free for my enjoyment. If they just end up not having time, then that's just too bad for me and I need to get over it. Now, the if they wait and then post on Monday or Tuesday to say they'll be unable to run the fight, that just ticks me off because it's disrespectful to the player. In that case, you agreed to run the fight and then not only did you reneg, you didn't allow time for anyone else to pick up your slack. Sometimes it's just life sneaking up on you and kicking you in the butt. MOST of the time, it's sheer procrastination. I've said too much. :(
Macbrea 06-05-07, 04:48 PM	Well, I will safely say.... Mitza has a ton of stuff on her mind at the moment. She may or may not be working on the fight. As to pointing out that it's late. I don't think that will get your fight to the top of the pile. It is very likely to get it pushed to the very bottom. As to myself and running fights. If I get tactics on weds or thurs, I am likely to run the fight thursday evening. After that... it will be monday....
Erithmu 06-05-07, 04:54 PM	So, has anyone seen Mitza? I don't think shes been around since Friday, and she had said she'd have Ceilia's fight done then... and she still has two fights in addition to that which aren't done... Zevox Mitza PM'd me that she couldn't post again, and was going to email me the fights. However then her computer got a virus and the fights might be slightly infected. But I think that they are 'done' This was as of a IM about an hour an a half ago.
Macbrea 06-05-07, 04:56 PM	Oh.. forgot that might effect her ability to log in to the Boards. She has a .Rext virus at the moment. She is trying to remove from her machine. It changes all .doc files to .rext. Don't accept a doc file from her unless you have a virus scanner at the moment. :P
Yitzi 06-05-07, 05:10 PM	Normally I don't comment, but since the post was put up early, I doubted it was simple procrastination, so I posted.
hogarth 06-05-07, 05:15 PM	I've resolved myself to view all pitlords as willing servants that donate their time and energy for free for my enjoyment. If they just end up not having time, then that's just too bad for me and I need to get over it. That's what I keep telling myself: If I'm not completely satisfied with my Core Coliseum experience, I'm entitled to double my money back. Guaranteed! I get as impatient as the next guy, but there's no point in getting peeved about it. The same thing goes with sloppily pitlorded fights -- a little bit of grousing is permissible, but getting upset over the quality of free entertainment is for the birds. Obligatory joke: "The food here is so terrible!" "Yes, and they give you such small portions!"
Zevox 06-05-07, 06:02 PM	Psyker Elfbane vs Arbin Softfoot is done. Ended in round 13. Zevox
Yitzi 06-05-07, 06:16 PM	About your comments-I usually use ventriloquism, but I chose to conserve it because at the time I thought I couldn't craft more than to make 450 gp worth and sell the rest. And I didn't see his wand of dorje-that's why I support a rule that any positive conditional modifier not listed on the sheet is halved unless it's common to everybody (prone, cover, etc.).
Zevox 06-05-07, 06:36 PM	About your comments-I usually use ventriloquism, but I chose to conserve it because at the time I thought I couldn't craft more than to make 450 gp worth and sell the rest. And I didn't see his wand of dorje-that's why I support a rule that any positive conditional modifier not listed on the sheet is halved unless it's common to everybody (prone, cover, etc.). Now thats just plain silly. Looking at your opponent's equipment is something you should be doing for yourself anyway. If you miss an item, its your own fault. As for vetriloquism, it will only help with one of those listen checks (for casting - the attack listen check is still there). And its another buff you need to cast before engaging. I tried using it on my Ranger/Wizard before our house rule about attacks and listen checks, and usually wound up with the conclusion that it wasn't worth the extra buffing time. Zevox
Usurpator 06-05-07, 06:41 PM	And I didn't see his wand of dorje-that's why I support a rule that any positive conditional modifier not listed on the sheet is halved unless it's common to everybody (prone, cover, etc.). I prefer that my opponents have a clean and neatly edited sheet. If they deliberately try to obscure essential information, I'll cry foul then. The Harvester used to have a tendency to list essential equipment in the 'At Home' heading, and then suddenly be wearing some of that equipment it for a fight (mentioned only in tactics). Those are cases when I cry 'foul'. With the new prebuff/equip rules that is fortunately a thing of the past. Sometimes you miss something, it happens...
Yitzi 06-05-07, 07:02 PM	As for vetriloquism, it will only help with one of those listen checks (for casting - the attack listen check is still there). And its another buff you need to cast before engaging. I tried using it on my Ranger/Wizard before our house rule about attacks and listen checks, and usually wound up with the conclusion that it wasn't worth the extra buffing time. Wait, does attacking cause a listen check even if it's an attack with a spell? I thought the check was for the noise of attacking with a weapon, which does not apply when you shoot off an acid splash.
Zevox 06-05-07, 07:16 PM	Wait, does attacking cause a listen check even if it's an attack with a spell? I thought the check was for the noise of attacking with a weapon, which does not apply when you shoot off an acid splash. According to our house rule, its any attack causes a DC 0 listen check. In the past, those who created the rule have applied it to spells as well, so apparently they qualify. McJarvis retired his UnCon-winning stealth build, an Arcane Trickster Air Goblin named Poe, because of it. Frankly, I wish we'd do away with the damn thing altogether, but I seem to be the only Elder who is terribly against it, and I know at least one was heavily involved in its creation and so would be likely to defend it to the death. Maybe once the present council matters are decided I'll get a discussion about it going. Zevox
NiQil 06-05-07, 09:11 PM	According to our house rule, its any attack causes a DC 0 listen check. In the past, those who created the rule have applied it to spells as well, so apparently they qualify. McJarvis retired his UnCon-winning stealth build, an Arcane Trickster Air Goblin named Poe, because of it. Frankly, I wish we'd do away with the damn thing altogether, but I seem to be the only Elder who is terribly against it, and I know at least one was heavily involved in its creation and so would be likely to defend it to the death. Maybe once the present council matters are decided I'll get a discussion about it going. Zevox And once again, I have to state....this is not a houserule. It does not appear in any of the Court Decisions. The last time the discussion occurred, there was no clear resolution. I don't know how I can make that any clearer.
NiQil 06-05-07, 09:19 PM	So, since Mitza is MIA, would anyone be willing to run Taren Rune's monster fight? The tactics and the monster rolled are already listed here...it just needs to have the monster created and the fight run. Should be pretty straightforward....and I would love to not have a monster fight held over.
Khaim 06-05-07, 10:34 PM	Psyker Elfbane vs Arbin Softfoot is done. Ended in round 13. Zevox I'm not going to argue the point much because I won anyways, but my tactics sort of implied that once he spotted me I'd find another hiding spot before spending X rounds refocusing. Standing in the exact spot I got hit with Color Spray is just dumb. Also, with a +9 I have a 50/50 chance of regaining focus. Sure, it could be better, but I should usually have the time to spend two rounds average sitting there.
Zevox 06-05-07, 10:49 PM	I'm not going to argue the point much because I won anyways, but my tactics sort of implied that once he spotted me I'd find another hiding spot before spending X rounds refocusing. Standing in the exact spot I got hit with Color Spray is just dumb. *shrugs* I interpreted your request to regain focus if you lose contact with your foe as to do so any time Arbin fled to hiding. Should've been a might bit clearer, if you didn't want to do that if he also spotted you. Also, with a +9 I have a 50/50 chance of regaining focus. Sure, it could be better, but I should usually have the time to spend two rounds average sitting there. Yeah, right. My friend, every fight I've run with a psi-sniper with less than +14 concentration has had the sniper wasting many rounds on refocusing (were it not for Zero's immense fly speed and burrowing ability, that would have lost him many a fight I don't doubt). The odds may say you lose 1-2 rounds, but its never worked out that way in my experience. And honestly, two rounds is not something you want to waste against most foes, especially as you level up and methods of easily finding sneaks become more numerous (touchsight and arcane sight show up as low as level 5). Zevox
NiQil 06-06-07, 12:22 AM	So, since Mitza is MIA, would anyone be willing to run Taren Rune's monster fight? The tactics and the monster rolled are already listed here...it just needs to have the monster created and the fight run. Should be pretty straightforward....and I would love to not have a monster fight held over. bumpity bump bump
Rauul 06-06-07, 12:56 AM	So, since Mitza is MIA, would anyone be willing to run Taren Rune's monster fight? The tactics and the monster rolled are already listed here...it just needs to have the monster created and the fight run. Should be pretty straightforward....and I would love to not have a monster fight held over. Mitza is gonna try to get them posted tomorrow when she wakes up, we are "jury rigging" our computers so she can post with mine and read from hers... so lets hope it works...