| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| TelinArtho11-09-05, 01:30 PM | Good morning all. This the thread to discuss this week's fights. Usual rules apply (play nice or else...). The rules of Gladius can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448520). We should have about 2.5 hours left to edit - though its always a good idea to be finished early. -- TelinArtho |
| Luni11-09-05, 01:32 PM | Just to save time. Were-Eagle vs 6 Eagles. I win. They can only damage me on a critical hit from a dive attack and roll 11-12 points of damage. If you insist on running it out. Enter in hybrid mode on the dungeon map. Deal nonlethal damage to eagles, so the fall won't kill them. Easiest MQ ever. :) |
| Gonbow11-09-05, 01:34 PM | Tatyana is 2-2 (Some amazingly lucky opponents here and there), lets see if we cant make this 3-2 eh? eh? (Oh, and opponent beware: She has potions /and/ powerstones now.) |
| NiQil11-09-05, 01:40 PM | :w00t: My first week at ECL 4 here....a whole new level to spend months mastering LOL. BTW....do we see a Prison update in our future this week? Seems like it's been awhile. Someone go get an 8-ball and ask it for me. |
| Snommelp11-09-05, 02:55 PM | :w00t: My first week at ECL 4 here....a whole new level to spend months mastering LOL. BTW....do we see a Prison update in our future this week? Seems like it's been awhile. Someone go get an 8-ball and ask it for me. Unclear Try Again Later |
| TelinArtho11-09-05, 03:37 PM | :w00t: My first week at ECL 4 here....a whole new level to spend months mastering LOL. BTW....do we see a Prison update in our future this week? Seems like it's been awhile. Someone go get an 8-ball and ask it for me. I've talked with LLMadCow over IM a number of times - and he keeps mentioning that he'll post an update... he just hasn't done one in a while... |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-09-05, 03:41 PM | Well, the higher ups will be relieved to know that both pale and krunch will be busy crafting for the next couple of weeks, but to take their place, i have a couple of new lowbies though. Maven has a whopping 3 hp at ECL 4. LOL. -ToK |
| Mind Rogue11-09-05, 03:42 PM | :w00t: My first week at ECL 4 here....a whole new level to spend months mastering LOL. BTW....do we see a Prison update in our future this week? Seems like it's been awhile. Someone go get an 8-ball and ask it for me. Sorry, but my Third Eye is currently glazed over. Ask again later and hopefully it will be seeing properly again. |
| NiQil11-09-05, 03:52 PM | Well, the higher ups will be relieved to know that both pale and krunch will be busy crafting for the next couple of weeks, but to take their place, i have a couple of new lowbies though. Maven has a whopping 3 hp at ECL 4. LOL. -ToK Sounds like rabbit food for a good melee character to me LOL Edit: I just looked Maven over, and....WTF?!? I don't have any other way to respond to that character LMAO. |
| Macbrea11-09-05, 03:54 PM | Hmmm, is Gorak allowed to challenge the old woman in order to show her the arena is no place for women? :fight!: |
| Caterane11-09-05, 03:56 PM | Okay, we're ready. It's 2 min left but since Jindl (Mr.Last Second Edit) is gone, I can close the bank now. Stop editing please. |
| Pittbull11-09-05, 03:56 PM | Well, the higher ups will be relieved to know that both pale and krunch will be busy crafting for the next couple of weeks, but to take their place, i have a couple of new lowbies though. Maven has a whopping 3 hp at ECL 4. LOL. -ToK psssst! Hagrid is not afraid of Krunchy and Paly! :P ;) Bring them up to ECL9 quickly, if not we have to wait for the IRONMAN. |
| TelinArtho11-09-05, 04:00 PM | Hmmm, is Gorak allowed to challenge the old woman in order to show her the arena is no place for women? :fight!: You are allowed to challenge - but there's nothing that says ToK has to accept the challenge... |
| Usurpator11-09-05, 04:12 PM | Well, the higher ups will be relieved to know that both pale and krunch will be busy crafting for the next couple of weeks, but to take their place, i have a couple of new lowbies though. Maven has a whopping 3 hp at ECL 4. LOL. -ToK I just laid out 12 credits for an opportunity to crush Krunch and make Pale look white with fear, and now they are suddenly chickening out! :chicken: |
| TelinArtho11-09-05, 04:22 PM | Don't worry Usurpator - Aquin is still at ECL6, and so is Daeren. Both will be happy to show the newcomer to the door. |
| Usurpator11-09-05, 04:34 PM | Don't worry Usurpator - Aquin is still at ECL6, and so is Daeren. Both will be happy to show the newcomer to the door. With Daeren already having fought Balbanes, I guess I can already start writing up tactics for the fight vs. Aquin. :) |
| Myrridin11-09-05, 04:50 PM | Okay, we're ready. It's 2 min left but since Jindl (Mr.Last Second Edit) is gone, I can close the bank now. Stop editing please. Nice to see that the shots keep coming, even after someone's left. |
| nightbanegod11-09-05, 05:04 PM | Well, the higher ups will be relieved to know that both pale and krunch will be busy crafting for the next couple of weeks, but to take their place, i have a couple of new lowbies though. Maven has a whopping 3 hp at ECL 4. LOL. -ToK uhh.... care to elaborate on how this character is supposed to survive? aside from maybe using wands of fireball? |
| TelinArtho11-09-05, 05:06 PM | Maven's got some hidden skills that are going to show us all up... I only hope I never get the misfortune to get paired up with her... |
| Iced11-09-05, 05:08 PM | Wow... Tellish has finally gone off the deep end with this one... :heehee |
| Mal-211-09-05, 05:33 PM | uhh.... care to elaborate on how this character is supposed to survive? aside from maybe using wands of fireball? Scrolls of Polymorph, maybe? You get the new form's physical stats, but keep your mental stats. |
| Snommelp11-09-05, 05:46 PM | Maven's got some hidden skills that are going to show us all up...Yeah, like the 116 GP per week she'll be making with skills. :eek: And the more she loses at low levels, the larger the advantage she'll have money-wise at the higher levels! I'd like to fight her sooner rather than later, myself... |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-09-05, 05:47 PM | About Maven: Well, she obviously can't win just yet. Though i could have made some purchases to make a serious go at it. But i thought it better to play it prudent instead of wasting money. So for now, her default tactics will apply to all her fights. Trust me, i have a plan. I just laid out 12 credits for an opportunity to crush Krunch and make Pale look white with fear, and now they are suddenly chickening out! :chicken: Yes i saw your guy and needless to say i was seriously dismayed that i'm not fighting this week. Any of my three top fighters Memorex/Pale/Krunch would have loved to introduce you to the harsher side of the arena life. But they are all busy-bees crafting. :( Oh well, this week, Memorex is done his boccob's book, so maybe next week we can duke it out. -ToK |
| One_Winged_Angel11-09-05, 05:47 PM | Tellish...you're scaring me... :mymy: :gah: :help: |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-09-05, 05:49 PM | Yeah, like the 116 GP per week she'll be making with skills. :eek: And the more she loses at low levels, the larger the advantage she'll have money-wise at the higher levels! I'd like to fight her sooner rather than later, myself... Ya, and with two horses, that's a 25% hit on top of only earning 1/3 xp for the loss. muiwhahahaha.. Plus buying everything at 10% discount (more later on) will save me tons of cash too. mwuhhaha Fear the future Bill Gates of the CoCo...i may be a decrepid whimpy looking geek now, but just you wait until i amass my fortunes. -ToK |
| SoulLord11-09-05, 05:50 PM | *looks around the ecl 7 league* Empty? Again? well perhaps I should take a look at the ecl 6 league mmmmmmmmmmmm |
| NiQil11-09-05, 05:51 PM | Ya, and with two horses, that's a 25% hit on top of only earning 1/3 xp for the loss. muiwhahahaha.. Plus buying everything at 10% discount (more later on) will save me tons of cash too. mwuhhaha Fear the future Bill Gates of the CoCo...i may be a decrepid whimpy looking geek now, but just you wait until i amass my fortunes. -ToK ToK<---taking a shot at unseating others from the lowest rating in Gladius LOL |
| Usurpator11-09-05, 05:56 PM | Ya, and with two horses, that's a 25% hit on top of only earning 1/3 xp for the loss. muiwhahahaha.. Plus buying everything at 10% discount (more later on) will save me tons of cash too. mwuhhaha Fear the future Bill Gates of the CoCo...i may be a decrepid whimpy looking geek now, but just you wait until i amass my fortunes. -ToK Tellish, don't forget: 1. Self-crafting stuff and then selling it, also good for your XP/gold ratio. 2. Doing quests below your ECL. |
| TelinArtho11-09-05, 06:00 PM | With Daeren already having fought Balbanes, I guess I can already start writing up tactics for the fight vs. Aquin. :) From the looks of the rolls on invisible castle the ECL 6 league looks like this: Balbanes vs Tecza Aquin vs Ariel and Daeren vs 3 monsters #44 - whatever they are... |
| Pitlords11-09-05, 06:07 PM | PAIRINGS DONE Credit Changes +7: Huan +6: Uther +5: Tellish +4: Iced, Caterane +2: Book5, Begferdeth, Usurpator +1: Cerebus, Dracazar, Gonbow, Locutus, Maraxus, Macbrea, Mindrogue, OWA. Pittbull, Sauro, Luni, LLMadCow, Nightbanegod +0: -1: TelinArtho, Snommelp -2: NiQil Credits for Pitlords: +3: Caterane, Luni +2: Uther, Nightbanegod, TelinArtho, Tellish +1: Begferdeth, Book5, Cerebus, Dracazar, Gonbow, Huan, Iced, Locutus, Maraxus, Macbrea, Mindrogue, OWA. Pittbull, Sauro, Usurpator, Snommelp Credits for Campaignlords: +6: Huan +3: Iced, KingUther, Telish Credits for Active PCs: -1: Caterane, Snommelp, Usurpator -2: Luni, NiQil -3: TelinArtho, Tellish Special Credits: +2: Caterane (GM) +1: LLMadCow (Prisonlord), Usurpator (Arena Weekly) -1: Nightbanegod (challenge), Snommelp (challenge) Credits for Maps: +3: Tellish +2: Usurpator +1: Begferdeth, Book News and Announcements - This is the first test week where Campaign Characters do not count as being active. I hope to see some effects resulting from that. - The recently announced rule, that the sum of your [M], [Q], and [C] is limited by your ECL won't come. Instead, I take the liberty to bare characters from leveling by doing monster fights alone. - From this week on, Team Fights and Hunter Fights are back, plus we have the new All vs All fights. All three types use different arenas as you can see in the characters thread. Please read the rules for those fight types again. - The arena for the Grand Hall has no colored code yet. You can find the code in the Maps thread where the original map is. If anyone wants to earn credits for coloring it, you know what you can do. - I'll announce a new idea soon, on how we can renovate the roster and make the mid-levels and high-levels more crowded. That needs a seperate thread though. Ok, have fun guys Cat @Myrridin: It was a joke. |
| Snommelp11-09-05, 06:13 PM | Before I write tactics for Hennan, I want to make sure I know: is All vs. All different than Hunter, or is it two names for the same thing? |
| Macbrea11-09-05, 06:14 PM | Errr, Can I trade someone a fight to pitlord? Alyana Shanti (AegisShade) vs Mektos (Macbrea): Macbrea Seems alittle silly to run my own fight. |
| NiQil11-09-05, 06:21 PM | @ Smommelp: Check the Rules thread for the differences between All-vs-All fights and Hunter fights......Hunter fights are the old All-vs-All that had targets....the new All-vs-All are truly that. Both use different arenas as well @ Cat: There is a rather glaring error in the pairings...in the ECL 4 league you have TelinArtho with a character on each side of a team fight.... Also....I think you forgot to add in the credit I earned this week for the links I amassed for you....I had 18 as of last week and now am at -2, when I should only be at -1 = 17 total. |
| Pitlords11-09-05, 06:27 PM | New Pairings/Pitlords: Perius (Ravashack) vs Valkin (TelinArtho): Maraxus Silas (NiQil) & Delaria (TelinArtho) vs Ashhûr (Luni) & Greefe (Ribking): Nightbanegod Alyana Shanti (AegisShade) vs Mektos (Macbrea): Begferdeth Zeno (Dracazar) vs Donak (Mal-2): Macbrea I just want to see if you pay attention :D NiQil+1° |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-09-05, 06:33 PM | Tellish, don't forget: 1. Self-crafting stuff and then selling it, also good for your XP/gold ratio. 2. Doing quests below your ECL. Well, i won't go that far in the abuse...otherwise i would just MQ for an EL 1 ally, which would kill me, and i'd gain 75 xp per fight, making 116 gp on top of that, needing 53 fights to level, making an extra 6148 FREE gp along the way ...but that would take a full year. haha. I'm not that desperate for abuse. I figure 3k is ample. :P -ToK |
| NiQil11-09-05, 06:38 PM | Soooo.....ToK.... Should I bother writing tactics for Maven? Or are ya just gonna mail it in, like the defaults for her say? |
| Mal-211-09-05, 06:38 PM | Tactics for Donak sent to begferdeath. Edit:Oops, forwarding to Macbrea now. |
| NiQil11-09-05, 06:42 PM | Quick question... For the pitlord of Caspian vs Barthleby....Locutus Is this someone that is active here? I've never seen a post from this person, and I can't find any active characters from this person. I want to make sure this is correct and not an error before I send tactics. |
| Snommelp11-09-05, 06:43 PM | New Pairings/Pitlords: Perius (Ravashack) vs Valkin (TelinArtho): Maraxus Silas (NiQil) & Delaria (TelinArtho) vs Ashhûr (Luni) & Greefe (Ribking): Nightbanegod Alyana Shanti (AegisShade) vs Mektos (Macbrea): Begferdeth Zeno (Dracazar) vs Donak (Mal-2): Macbrea I just want to see if you pay attention :D NiQil+1° One o' these days you're going to change the pitlord for a fight I've sent tactics for, and I'll be sad... Tactics for Grik and Sam have been sent. Working on Hennan's right now. |
| Luni11-09-05, 06:44 PM | Imperi Vahalla (Luni) miniquests for 6 eagles who need not necessarily be the one she fights on the MQ: King Uther Heh. So King Uther, do you want to challenge me by giving me something else to fight? |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-09-05, 06:55 PM | Soooo.....ToK.... Should I bother writing tactics for Maven? Or are ya just gonna mail it in, like the defaults for her say? Default tactics...fear not, you needn't worry about trying to beat up my two non-combatant horses, or me accidently crit'ing you with an improvised weapon (rock) from the arena floor. -ToK |
| NiQil11-09-05, 06:57 PM | Default tactics...fear not, you needn't worry about trying to beat up my two non-combatant horses, or me accidently crit'ing you with an improvised weapon (rock) from the arena floor. -ToK Yeah....but this is where the paranoid part of me kicks in and wonders if you don't have some secret plan up your sleeve and thinks I should go ahead and write tactics anyway LOL. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-09-05, 06:59 PM | Yeah....but this is where the paranoid part of me kicks in and wonders if you don't have some secret plan up your sleeve and thinks I should go ahead and write tactics anyway LOL. I have 3 hp, no weapons other than two nags. Just WHAT secret weapon are you talking about? If i were ECL 6, then ok, you might wanna play it safe, but for now, just write something really simple...like, "kill the hold hag" and i'm sure you'll do just fine. -ToK |
| Snommelp11-09-05, 07:04 PM | And now Hennan's tactics are in as well. It looks like an... interesting... fight Luni. Enjoy. |
| TelinArtho11-09-05, 07:52 PM | @Iced - want to send me a PM or post the equipment of Daeren's opponents: 3 Ghasts... Let's see 9 attacks that can paralyze every round. This should be fun... |
| Caterane11-09-05, 08:13 PM | Tactics for the Harvester sent to Usurpator. |
| Macbrea11-09-05, 08:17 PM | Tactics for Mektos and Gorak have been sent. |
| nightbanegod11-09-05, 09:04 PM | Whew... awaiting tactics on the Large fight im running.. and just to clarify this is being run out of the standard arena right? theres no special map i should be looking at? |
| Luni11-09-05, 09:05 PM | @Cerebus13: Tactics for Shakari sent. @Snommelp: tactics received. I hope your prediction is wrong though. |
| Ravashack11-09-05, 09:21 PM | Tactics PMed to Maraxus. |
| Mind Rogue11-09-05, 09:37 PM | @ Telin Tactics PMed for Anya @ Cerebus I'll send you tactics sometime tomorrow. |
| nightbanegod11-09-05, 09:57 PM | @sarugrennom ... tactics for horseman sent time for taunting from the horseman.... "....." stands there ominously see warfareguild page for more news on the horsemans talkativity... hes SOO chatty |
| One_Winged_Angel11-09-05, 10:03 PM | @book5: Tactics recieved. |
| TelinArtho11-09-05, 10:08 PM | @Mind Rogue - Tactics for Anya received. @my pitlords - I'm working on tactics - but most will probably come tomorrow morning. |
| TelinArtho11-09-05, 10:15 PM | @Cat - tactics for Aquin vs Ariel have been sent. |
| TelinArtho11-09-05, 10:31 PM | @NiQil - preliminary ideas sent for team fight for Delaria and Silas |
| King Uther11-09-05, 11:35 PM | I have a new EL3 gladiator, about whom I forgot to send a PM to Cat about him being active. Is there anyone free to challenge him? |
| King Uther11-10-05, 12:16 AM | Well, if it turns out I cannot get paired, I might as well get some feedback on my quick-striking killer Ajora the Light (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7703097&postcount=522) . |
| TelinArtho11-10-05, 12:25 AM | Your horse can get Fleet of Foot because its dex is only 13. |
| Gonbow11-10-05, 12:25 AM | I have a new EL3 gladiator, about whom I forgot to send a PM to Cat about him being active. Is there anyone free to challenge him? ECL 3? Damn. I have two gladiators at ECL 4 I could activate due to the apparent free campaign characters. (I'm getting +1 credits with three characters active, two of them on campaigns... so I can only assume). EDIT: @My Gladiators Tactics recieved, I'll set it up and start running it tomorrow night. |
| King Uther11-10-05, 12:34 AM | I'll fight your EL 4 gladiator. But don't be dismayed that he was edited past deadline. I realized that since I wasn't paired I would have a chance to fix some small errors and took it. Are you game? |
| Iced11-10-05, 01:17 AM | @TelinArtho - Tactics for Validi's All vs All fight pm'd This one's going to be interesting...:plotting: If I kill everyone do I get double winnings? |
| King Uther11-10-05, 01:53 AM | Yes you do. It's a worthy prize for a stronger fight. |
| Iced11-10-05, 01:57 AM | @Usurpatot - Tactics for Anixx pm'd This one will be... straightforward |
| Iced11-10-05, 02:07 AM | @TelinArtho - Ghast equipment pm'd |
| Pittbull11-10-05, 04:36 AM | @Locutus: Barthleby's tactic has been sent to you via PM. |
| Pitlords11-10-05, 05:49 AM | New Pairing added: Ajora, Avatar of Life (King Uther) vs Jessie the Slow (Oldmangray): Snommelp Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) vs 7-Headed Cryo Hydra: Caterane [Monster] Caterane+1°, Snommelp +1°, Uther -1° |
| Pittbull11-10-05, 06:48 AM | @Huan: Hagrid's tactic has been sent by E-Mail. |
| Maraxus11-10-05, 07:09 AM | ... and this was the Point while writing tactics, that I realized, Grik had too many hit-dies to be put asleep. And then I calculated... I need about as much magic to buff myself, as I can cast myself. Dealing 1 point of damage costs me about 15gp. So killing Grik will not work below 750gp. Taking my hit points total into the calculation, I can expect the loosers share of 466 gp and ... oh, that's a bad relation. :) :( ;) @Cat: Tactics für Zassl ist raus. |
| TelinArtho11-10-05, 09:44 AM | @Iced - tactics received for Validi Dezox Also received the equipment list for the ghasts... not only do they 3 paralyzing attacks per round - but they are also going to have sky-high AC? Sounds like a ball... |
| Pittbull11-10-05, 10:05 AM | @Cat: Taktik bekommen! @Sunwolf: If you send me Brilf's tactic soon, I'll be able to run the fight tonight (CET). |
| SoulLord11-10-05, 11:01 AM | @King Uther: King if you are using the sample Vampire (including equipment) from the dmg please tell me so I can send you tactics asap. Or if you want to change it please send me the modifications to the vamp if possible today as I won't have any free time for the following week. |
| TelinArtho11-10-05, 11:04 AM | @Luni - tactics for Tanglewood Breeze have been sent. |
| King Uther11-10-05, 11:07 AM | @SoulLord I'll use the generic for simplicity. @Snommelp Tactics for Ajora the Light sent via PM. |
| King Uther11-10-05, 11:08 AM | @Luni I'll make the eagles fight interesting. You won't lose, but at least it will be funny. |
| Snommelp11-10-05, 11:18 AM | Tactics for Raskos and Ajora have been received. Too bad they're not fighting each other... |
| SoulLord11-10-05, 11:50 AM | @SoulLord I'll use the generic for simplicity. Excelent tactics for vandelar the red sent I look forward to reading the fight |
| NiQil11-10-05, 11:55 AM | @ Locutus: Tactics for Caspian sent via PM. @ OWA: Tactics for Kronos sent via PM. @ TelinArtho: Tactics for Methos sent via PM. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-10-05, 12:34 PM | @ OWA: Tactics for Kronos sent via PM. Got them. I notice your tactics this week are even simpler and more effective than last week. :D |
| NiQil11-10-05, 12:40 PM | Got them. I notice your tactics this week are even simpler and more effective than last week. :D And hopefully more story-inspiring...since it is totally something the evil Kronos would do. I fully expect to see a story in the Gladius Weekly about him after you put the fight up LMAO. |
| TelinArtho11-10-05, 01:24 PM | @NiQil - tactics for Methos have been received. I've got the tactics for all three gladiators now. Its a complicated fight, so it will probably be a while before it is posted. |
| Huan11-10-05, 01:37 PM | @Pittbull Tactics received, thank you. |
| NiQil11-10-05, 01:38 PM | @ Nightbanegod: Tactics for Silas sent via PM. You should receive additional tactics from TelinArtho for Delaria as well. |
| Sunwolf11-10-05, 01:46 PM | @Pittbull Tactics for Brilf sent by PM |
| Luni11-10-05, 01:48 PM | @Telinartho: Tactics received. @Caterane: Ariel's tactics will arrive tomorrow. @NBG: Tactics will arrive after I hear back from my partner. |
| Usurpator11-10-05, 01:56 PM | @my gladiators: all tactics received |
| TelinArtho11-10-05, 02:58 PM | @NiQil - clarification requested for Methos. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-10-05, 03:11 PM | @ToK: Tactics, if you can call them that, have been recieved. :P You're either a buisnessman or a soldier judging from those. |
| NiQil11-10-05, 03:13 PM | @NiQil - clarification requested for Methos. Reply sent. |
| TelinArtho11-10-05, 03:19 PM | received. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-10-05, 03:44 PM | @ToK: Tactics, if you can call them that, have been recieved. :P You're either a buisnessman or a soldier judging from those. I'll be honest, i could have created her with winning in mind, but i decided to experiment a bit with the monetary system. And if i made her build with a winning strategy from the start, then the jig would be up. As it stands, i'm hoping to surprise people in a few months. -ToK |
| One_Winged_Angel11-10-05, 04:11 PM | I'll be honest, i could have created her with winning in mind, but i decided to experiment a bit with the monetary system. And if i made her build with a winning strategy from the start, then the jig would be up. As it stands, i'm hoping to surprise people in a few months. -ToK ...Definatly a businessman or a soldier. Not only do you find your acceptable losses, you refuse to give away your death tactics early on. :thinks: :lightbulb :ayyyy!: :plotting: :evillaugh |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-10-05, 04:17 PM | ...Definatly a businessman or a soldier. Not only do you find your acceptable losses, you refuse to give away your death tactics early on. :thinks: :lightbulb :ayyyy!: :plotting: :evillaugh 0-27 here i come. :D -ToK |
| NiQil11-10-05, 04:29 PM | Yanno....with all the talk about the so-called tactics....why hasn't it been posted yet? LOL <jab jab uppercut> :D |
| TelinArtho11-10-05, 04:30 PM | NiQil's just concerned the fight's going to get held over for 27 weeks... |
| TelinArtho11-10-05, 04:32 PM | Here's an interesting (and obvious to me...) question: If someone is firing at another, but in between the two is an invisible person - does the target get a (soft) cover bonus to AC? |
| NiQil11-10-05, 04:33 PM | NiQil's just concerned the fight's going to get held over for 27 weeks... No kidding.....I have horrible luck with my pitlords gettings fights in on time...last week was an exception for a change...hopefully that luck will continue this week. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-10-05, 04:33 PM | NiQil's just concerned the fight's going to get held over for 27 weeks... That would concern me gravely as well. LOL. See i could edit my character and take the auto-loss, but then i wouldn't get hit with the 25% xp penalty for having allies. HAHAHA. I honestly have no idea why it isn't posted yet. -ToK |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-10-05, 04:35 PM | Here's an interesting (and obvious to me...) question: If someone is firing at another, but in between the two is an invisible person - does the target get a (soft) cover bonus to AC? No...and i believe they would need to be large anyhow, but even then. No. Stupid as it sounds. -ToK |
| NiQil11-10-05, 04:36 PM | That would concern me gravely as well. LOL. See i could edit my character and take the auto-loss, but then i wouldn't get hit with the 25% xp penalty for having allies. HAHAHA. I honestly have no idea why it isn't posted yet. -ToK OMFG are you actually bringing your non-combatant horses into the arena when you surrender to take an XP hit as well? ROFLMAO |
| Pittbull11-10-05, 04:39 PM | Uhme vs Brilf has been posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7720151&postcount=617). |
| Macbrea11-10-05, 04:44 PM | I am not sure I agree with having a character who's only purpose is to push people up into the next league. So, that you have someone new to fight. Basicly, creating a character that bring the maximum NPCs into the arena and surrendering you are pushing another person up in levels without any real challenge. The all vs all and team vs team fights will accomplish this already. That is assuming your not just waiting to use a scroll of Polymorph any object to permanently change yourself to another race. Though, I do feel you should still suffer the effects of your low physical stats even in the new race. |
| Snommelp11-10-05, 04:53 PM | Oh, just wait Macbrea... this new character that ToK made might be an easy kill now, but soon enough we will all see her destroying everyone. Mountains of money, my friend. Literal mountains of money. She might even start using the money as a weapon; dropping excessive amounts of GP onto her foes from the ceiling. |
| Usurpator11-10-05, 04:54 PM | I am not sure I agree with having a character who's only purpose is to push people up into the next league. So, that you have someone new to fight. Basicly, creating a character that bring the maximum NPCs into the arena and surrendering you are pushing another person up in levels without any real challenge. The all vs all and team vs team fights will accomplish this already. While I have no problem with the money-gathering concept, I do have a problem with not getting an exciting fight because my opponent surrenders by default. I am not just here for the winning, I am here for seeing my characters flex their muscles as well. How can I see if I have a good build/good tactics when my opponent just surrenders? Let alone when I get stuck with Maven in a team fight.... While Maven is not illegal or unfair in any way, she is unfun. |
| Mal-211-10-05, 04:55 PM | Uhme vs Brilf has been posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7720151&postcount=617). In round 5, unless Uhme is already adjacent to Brilf, I don't think Eule is allowed to Coupe de Gras, because it's a full round action. I can't tell if they're adjacent since you don't have coordinates listed. |
| Pittbull11-10-05, 05:03 PM | I'll list the coordinates tomorrow, in round four Uhme rides within 160ft (the movement-rate of his phantom steed). In round five the phantomsteed rides next to Birlf only with a single, so a full-round action from the owl is still possible, which is not the rider. If I'm wrong, Brilf will get an additional saving-throw. This will-save would be: 20!!!!!!+9=29 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=185349). But there is another question: He's still nauseated, breaking the hold-person-spell is a full-round action, but he is limited to move-actions? |
| TelinArtho11-10-05, 05:54 PM | Anya Starfire vs Validi Dezox vs Methos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7721498) I wanted to supply some comments, but I was afraid of hitting the max character limit: 1. @NiQil - once in a grapple, with a +11 vs Validi's +19 when enlarged and raging - I think I would've tried to attack for damage with flurry against his MASSIVE AC10. Staying in the grapple was bad, but failing to do anything to him was not to your advantage. I might suggest trying to boost your touch AC if you don't want to be in the grapple next time. 2. @Iced - I didn't use the bite of the wolf on all of the damage rolls because I failed to see where it would be used (since I could picture you trying to attack for damage vs a high AC). It does mean that Anya would only have taken more damage though - so that's the way it is. You also didn't really plan too well on the size of the arena - perhaps forgetting that it was the Grand Hall for a moment - because a single move (50ft) can get you quite a bit of distance. As such, you closed with Anya much faster. 3. @Mind Rogue - Anya didn't really have much to do with once in a grapple and while you could have moved away, there was nothing you could have done to avoid being attacked eventually. I gave you the best situation (force him to squeeze on the ledge) - but a -3 grapple modifier just kills you... I might suggest something that will help the escape artist modifier (grease yourself up I guess) or find something that will improve your touch AC significantly (while high - against an invisible foe - you are screwed...) |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-10-05, 05:58 PM | I'll list the coordinates tomorrow, in round four Uhme rides within 160ft (the movement-rate of his phantom steed). In round five the phantomsteed rides next to Birlf only with a single, so a full-round action from the owl is still possible, which is not the rider. If I'm wrong, Brilf will get an additional saving-throw. This will-save would be: 20!!!!!!+9=29 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=185349). But there is another question: He's still nauseated, breaking the hold-person-spell is a full-round action, but he is limited to move-actions? Being held means his body freezes up...ergo no nausiousness, otherwise he'd choke and die on his own vomit. Besides, he would still be able to break free as a full round action despite being limited. There are a few examples in the phb about still being able to do things as a full round action if you are in some way limited. I would assume the same would apply here. -ToK |
| NiQil11-10-05, 06:00 PM | Anya Starfire vs Validi Dezox vs Methos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7721498) I wanted to supply some comments, but I was afraid of hitting the max character limit: 1. @NiQil - once in a grapple, with a +11 vs Validi's +19 when enlarged and raging - I think I would've tried to attack for damage with flurry against his MASSIVE AC10. Staying in the grapple was bad, but failing to do anything to him was not to your advantage. I might suggest trying to boost your touch AC if you don't want to be in the grapple next time. 2. @Iced - I didn't use the bite of the wolf on all of the damage rolls because I failed to see where it would be used (since I could picture you trying to attack for damage vs a high AC). It does mean that Anya would only have taken more damage though - so that's the way it is. You also didn't really plan too well on the size of the arena - perhaps forgetting that it was the Grand Hall for a moment - because a single move (50ft) can get you quite a bit of distance. As such, you closed with Anya much faster. 3. @Mind Rogue - Anya didn't really have much to do with once in a grapple and while you could have moved away, there was nothing you could have done to avoid being attacked eventually. I gave you the best situation (force him to squeeze on the ledge) - but a -3 grapple modifier just kills you... I might suggest something that will help the escape artist modifier (grease yourself up I guess) or find something that will improve your touch AC significantly (while high - against an invisible foe - you are screwed...) What are the rolls listed under? The reason I ask, is in that last round, with my Escape check modifier being an 11, and my total result being a 31, that means I rolled a 20, and, if memory serves from the FAQ (I'll check here in a moment), a 20 autosucceeds on a grapple check. I know it did in 3.0...just don't remember if that changed or not. But if so, that could change things slightly...probably won't change the result, but could. Edit: Nothing that I can find in the 3.5 FAQ contradicts the 3.0 FAQ saying that a 20 autosucceeds and a 1 autofails on a grapple check. Does anyone else know of anything that overruled that 3.0 ruling in the FAQ? |
| One_Winged_Angel11-10-05, 06:11 PM | @Luni: Tactics for Wraith sent. @Book5: Tactics for Azriel sent. Looks like one of those weeks... |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-10-05, 06:19 PM | Edit: Nothing that I can find in the 3.5 FAQ contradicts the 3.0 FAQ saying that a 20 autosucceeds and a 1 autofails on a grapple check. Does anyone else know of anything that overruled that 3.0 ruling in the FAQ? I was under the impression that we had settle this a few weeks ago, in that a grapple check is an opposed roll, and doesn't crit. If it doesn't crit or auto-succeed, it would be safe to assume that it doesn't auto-fail. In fact, that was YOUR argument..so you can't go back on your word now. LOL -ToK |
| NiQil11-10-05, 06:25 PM | I was under the impression that we had settle this a few weeks ago, in that a grapple check is an opposed roll, and doesn't crit. If it doesn't crit or auto-succeed, it would be safe to assume that it doesn't auto-fail. In fact, that was YOUR argument..so you can't go back on your word now. LOL -ToK It's two different things, ToK. A crit on the touch attack to start a grapple will double the damage done by the grapple check. That is what we were debating a couple of weeks ago, and yes, that was my argument. In the opposed checks, however, if I am correct, it is still possible to autofail and autosucceed. That's why I am asking. That portion is per the 3.0 FAQ, and I am trying to find out if that changed in 3.5. Grappling changed slightly, going from an opposed attack roll in 3.0, to a grapple check in 3.5, which is in a category all by itself. But unless something in 3.5 changed that rule, the 3.0 ruling in the FAQ still applies. As I stated originally, most likely this will have no effect on the fight other than a couple of extra rounds. But if that ruling is still in place, it should be followed. That's why I am asking. It may very well have changed. Edit: After perusing the 3.5 FAQ some more, I have found that it is really going to come down to how a grapple check is classified. A grapple check is in a category all by itself. It's not a skill check, and it's not an attack roll. The 3.0 rules were written when a grapple check was an opposed attack roll, which it is no longer. This is probably something that should be defined for the future. My fight can stand as is, since likely the result wouldn't change anyway. But with the amount of grapplers we have, this should be addressed. |
| Mind Rogue11-10-05, 07:32 PM | Anya Starfire vs Validi Dezox vs Methos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7721498) I wanted to supply some comments, but I was afraid of hitting the max character limit: 1. @NiQil - once in a grapple, with a +11 vs Validi's +19 when enlarged and raging - I think I would've tried to attack for damage with flurry against his MASSIVE AC10. Staying in the grapple was bad, but failing to do anything to him was not to your advantage. I might suggest trying to boost your touch AC if you don't want to be in the grapple next time. 2. @Iced - I didn't use the bite of the wolf on all of the damage rolls because I failed to see where it would be used (since I could picture you trying to attack for damage vs a high AC). It does mean that Anya would only have taken more damage though - so that's the way it is. You also didn't really plan too well on the size of the arena - perhaps forgetting that it was the Grand Hall for a moment - because a single move (50ft) can get you quite a bit of distance. As such, you closed with Anya much faster. 3. @Mind Rogue - Anya didn't really have much to do with once in a grapple and while you could have moved away, there was nothing you could have done to avoid being attacked eventually. I gave you the best situation (force him to squeeze on the ledge) - but a -3 grapple modifier just kills you... I might suggest something that will help the escape artist modifier (grease yourself up I guess) or find something that will improve your touch AC significantly (while high - against an invisible foe - you are screwed...) Ya, there wasn't really too much I could do about that. I could have used my powerstone of detect hostile intent to keep my dex bonus, but it looks like he would have hit anyway. I can't really afford a vest of escape, so my only hopes really were that he didn't do something like that, that I could take Methos down first, or that Methos could save my but by attacking Flame. |
| TelinArtho11-10-05, 09:02 PM | What are the rolls listed under? The reason I ask, is in that last round, with my Escape check modifier being an 11, and my total result being a 31, that means I rolled a 20, and, if memory serves from the FAQ (I'll check here in a moment), a 20 autosucceeds on a grapple check. I know it did in 3.0...just don't remember if that changed or not. But if so, that could change things slightly...probably won't change the result, but could. Edit: Nothing that I can find in the 3.5 FAQ contradicts the 3.0 FAQ saying that a 20 autosucceeds and a 1 autofails on a grapple check. Does anyone else know of anything that overruled that 3.0 ruling in the FAQ? In general, just so you know, I usually use the first three characters of the names of each character. In this case, for instance, I used: AnyValMet In the round in question, I believe both rolls were 20s (though I'll have to go back and check) - and this goes back to the thing about auto-success/auto-fails - they can't happen in opposed rolls. Methos tries to escape the grapple again [31 vs 39, fail] Your bonus is +11 and his is +19 - they are both 20s. In this case, specifically, it is a skill check - and therefore there is NO auto-success as well. |
| Sunwolf11-10-05, 09:18 PM | So here is a question about the interaction of two spells. Phantom steed creates a quasi real creature. It is impeded by terrain as normal until it can fly. Blacklight creates a field where no other creatures beside yourself can see. Does a phantom steed in a blacklight field only get to move at half speed since it can not see because of the blacklight effect? |
| Sunwolf11-10-05, 09:20 PM | @ToK Tactics for Leif sent by PM |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-10-05, 09:35 PM | So here is a question about the interaction of two spells. Phantom steed creates a quasi real creature. It is impeded by terrain as normal until it can fly. Blacklight creates a field where no other creatures beside yourself can see. Does a phantom steed in a blacklight field only get to move at half speed since it can not see because of the blacklight effect? That is correct Sunwolf. The phantom steed cannot see...only the caster. There are no SHARING qualities afforded to the phantom steed. -ToK |
| Macbrea11-10-05, 10:22 PM | Donak vs Zeno (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7723562&postcount=619) fight is up. |
| MysticMonk200511-10-05, 11:39 PM | @snommelp, Tactics PM'd |
| Iced11-10-05, 11:56 PM | I think i've hit upon something with Validi's build. Both of my opponents in the all vs all fight identified me as the most dangerous opponent. He's now 6 and 0 with a miniquest under his belt and heading for something new and exciting in the next few weeks. Fear the bat ... thing... ;) |
| Luni11-11-05, 01:07 AM | I think i've hit upon something with Validi's build. Both of my opponents in the all vs all fight identified me as the most dangerous opponent. He's now 6 and 0 with a miniquest under his belt and heading for something new and exciting in the next few weeks. I'm going to add the Lycanthrope [Dire Bat] Template to him boosting him to the EL11 League. Dire Bat will give him blindsense, a fly speed, +6 Str, +12 Dex, +6 Con, +2 Wis and allow me to boost my Str score to base twenty due to the hd increase putting it at an un-augmented 26. Final stats should look something like this: Str 26 [30 rage] Dex 22 Con 22 [26 rage] Int 14 Wis 18 Cha 8 he can also cast arcane spells, divine spells, and manifest psionics... :D Fear the bat ... thing... ;) It's awfully hard to cast spells as a Dire Bat. Those somatic gestures would be impossible. |
| Iced11-11-05, 01:12 AM | It's awfully hard to cast spells as a Dire Bat. Those somatic gestures would be impossible. I don't have to start out in hybrid form if i don't want to. The change dc is only fifteen. Also the magic is purely for buffing purposes, it's not like i plan on blasting anyone at EL11 to bits with first level cleric spells...:p |
| Sindorin11-11-05, 01:22 AM | I think i've hit upon something with Validi's build. Both of my opponents in the all vs all fight identified me as the most dangerous opponent. He's now 6 and 0 with a miniquest under his belt and heading for something new and exciting in the next few weeks. I'm going to add the Lycanthrope [Dire Bat] Template to him boosting him to the EL11 League. Dire Bat will give him blindsense, a fly speed, +6 Str, +12 Dex, +6 Con, +2 Wis and allow me to boost my Str score to base twenty due to the hd increase putting it at an un-augmented 26. Final stats should look something like this: Str 26 [30 rage] Dex 22 Con 22 [26 rage] Int 14 Wis 18 Cha 8 he can also cast arcane spells, divine spells, and manifest psionics... :D Fear the bat ... thing... ;) Of course you have hit something, you have combined two classes whose alignment restrictions are complete opposites. Hehe |
| King Uther11-11-05, 01:57 AM | @Luni No tactics for fighting eagles? Ha. |
| Iced11-11-05, 02:07 AM | On second thought, perhaps Validi should remain el5 for now. :plotting: He's been undefeated so far and I want to see how long it will last. Plust the el11 league isn't open yet. *sigh* my plans of self-inflicted lycanthropy will have to wait in the face of racking up some more kills. :evillaugh |
| Luni11-11-05, 02:47 AM | @nightbanegod: Team Tactics sent. @Caterane: Ariel's tactics sent. @King Uther: I'll send you some simple tactics. |
| Luni11-11-05, 03:08 AM | Hmm. The 5 round delay for FFA's was removed? I can't find it in the Rules anymore. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-11-05, 03:22 AM | On second thought, perhaps Validi should remain el5 for now. :plotting: He's been undefeated so far and I want to see how long it will last. Plust the el11 league isn't open yet. *sigh* my plans of self-inflicted lycanthropy will have to wait in the face of racking up some more kills. :evillaugh Krunch is waiting. :D Hmm. The 5 round delay for FFA's was removed? I can't find it in the Rules anymore. Personally, i would still make it stick. Call it "Pitlord Override!" -ToK |
| Maraxus11-11-05, 04:52 AM | The horseless Horseman vs. Sam looks interesting. Looks like Sam is about to shoot from the first round on - but will he hit? The grapple will be very tough. The first turn, the Horseman will have his Grip of Iron. After that, they will be equall. Sam has the advantage of hit points but given the probability-curve, I only give him about 66% to win this. However, I'm big fan of SauroGrenom, for realizing enlarge person does not work on the giant. |
| Caterane11-11-05, 05:23 AM | @Pittbull: Thanks for the quick fight. Just for the future: Brilf was nauseated so he has only a move action left. With that he cannot attempt to break the hold person spell (which is a fullround action). And the sblocks don't work. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-11-05, 08:49 AM | @Pittbull: Thanks for the quick fight. Just for the future: Brilf was nauseated so he has only a move action left. With that he cannot attempt to break the hold person spell (which is a fullround action). And the sblocks don't work. Hmm...there are more errors than that Cat. Your phantom steed should only be moving at half speed due to blacklight. And he still gets to break out of hp, despite the limitations. It is still a full round action, it just takes up his move action, and he doesn't get a 5' step. -ToK |
| Sunwolf11-11-05, 09:03 AM | Hmm...there are more errors than that Cat. Your phantom steed should only be moving at half speed due to blacklight. And he still gets to break out of hp, despite the limitations. It is still a full round action, it just takes up his move action, and he doesn't get a 5' step. -ToK Since a full round action is two actions, I am happy to start breaking out of Hold person in one round and completing the attempt on the second round -- uses 1 move action in each round to get a full round action. Seems reasonable to me. So initial save still is immediate, next break out attempt takes 2 rounds due to nausea then each round if nausea has ended. This argument probably means Brilf is still CDGed before he gets out of the hold person but it seems like the way it should work. |
| SauroGrenom11-11-05, 09:14 AM | The horseless Horseman vs. Sam looks interesting. Looks like Sam is about to shoot from the first round on - but will he hit? The grapple will be very tough. The first turn, the Horseman will have his Grip of Iron. After that, they will be equall. Sam has the advantage of hit points but given the probability-curve, I only give him about 66% to win this. However, I'm big fan of SauroGrenom, for realizing enlarge person does not work on the giant. Thanks! I ran into that Enlarge potion problem with Rebreg. I'm thinking that Sam will pincushion the Horseman for a few rounds, but the move equivalent to reload will hurt him and the horseman will catch him. The probabilities of fight tell us that the flurry will give Sam a distinct advantage and his damage output is greater. We shall see where the luck falls. I need to bone up on the armor spikes, but this will probably be a close fight. BTW: I'll get to finishing the fight probably saturday morning. I'm very buisy today and tonight. |
| Mind Rogue11-11-05, 09:59 AM | Since a full round action is two actions, I am happy to start breaking out of Hold person in one round and completing the attempt on the second round -- uses 1 move action in each round to get a full round action. Seems reasonable to me. So initial save still is immediate, next break out attempt takes 2 rounds due to nausea then each round if nausea has ended. This argument probably means Brilf is still CDGed before he gets out of the hold person but it seems like the way it should work. Except that the "Begin full-round action" and "complete full-round action" options are standard actions. If you are limited to only move actions, you cannot do standard or full-round actions at all. |
| Sunwolf11-11-05, 10:14 AM | Nauseated Experiencing stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn. @MindRogue You are correct. Looks like concentration is out while Nauseated and breaking a hold person spell requires concentration, I would say. SO -- no save attempts after the initial one for hold person until the Nausea runs out. Pretty nasty combo if one can get it to stick. |
| AegisShade11-11-05, 12:13 PM | @Begferdeth: Tactics sent. Thanks for pitlording. @Macbrea: Good call on your build. You're quite frightful, turning your weaknesses into strengths. |
| TelinArtho11-11-05, 02:18 PM | The All vs All fight I pitlorded has been edited to take into account the rules on rewards for the fight that were previously not available. |
| Snommelp11-11-05, 03:24 PM | The horseless Horseman vs. Sam looks interesting. Looks like Sam is about to shoot from the first round on - but will he hit? The grapple will be very tough. The first turn, the Horseman will have his Grip of Iron. After that, they will be equall. Sam has the advantage of hit points but given the probability-curve, I only give him about 66% to win this. However, I'm big fan of SauroGrenom, for realizing enlarge person does not work on the giant. Except that the horseman does not in fact have Grip of Iron (see the Prison). ...wait, horseless? Oh, this is going to be too easy! |
| Snommelp11-11-05, 05:32 PM | Thanks! I ran into that Enlarge potion problem with Rebreg. I'm thinking that Sam will pincushion the Horseman for a few rounds, but the move equivalent to reload will hurt him and the horseman will catch him. The probabilities of fight tell us that the flurry will give Sam a distinct advantage and his damage output is greater. We shall see where the luck falls. I need to bone up on the armor spikes, but this will probably be a close fight. BTW: I'll get to finishing the fight probably saturday morning. I'm very buisy today and tonight. When you do get to finishing the fight, Sam should be starting at (-4, 22) not (0, 26). Also, should the unthinkable happen and Sam is dropped to 0 HP, don't forget Diehard. I wouldn't mention it, but it seems that when I don't, the pitlord forgets with alarming regularity. |
| Mind Rogue11-11-05, 09:07 PM | Ch'ch'ili vs Flamehair is up. |
| Usurpator11-12-05, 03:49 AM | Ch'ch'ili vs Flamehair is up. Thank you for running the fight, it looks a rather close match. Can you edit in that Flamehair also used two powerstones of enlarged matter agitation? And I think Flamehair should get only 1050 XP/gp. A CR 1 is a 12.5% penalty for a ECL 4 gladiator. Oh, and please add 80 gp. from Craft(gemcutting), if only to avoid the NiQil police. ;) |
| Usurpator11-12-05, 09:00 AM | @TelinArtho & @Iced: Kraegin and Annix have reached a standoff, and I can get nothing from both your tactics with which I can proceed properly. Check your PM's for my question to resolve this issue. EDIT: resolved the issue already, should double-check spell durations before posting next time. :embarrass |
| Maraxus11-12-05, 09:10 AM | OgodOgodOgod - the hunter fight is thrilling. Once again, I forgot an anti-grapple-condition. ...But on the other hand, my opponent has the worse grapple modifier (It should be -4, not -3 btw. Does not change anything. Edit2: In round 28 it would change something unless critical failures count on opposed grapple checks, too. Do they?). And does an alter self give someone a Xorn's burrow-speed? Normally you get movement modes, but this one comes from the exceptional special ability earth glide, I would say. And you don't get this. But okay, let's get on with the fight. PS: Expendables spend so far: Daemon: 550 gp Zassl: 600 gp Grik: 0gp Damn, if living a barbarien's life not cheap? ;) |
| Caterane11-12-05, 09:46 AM | Dameon => Zassl => Grik is done. That was a very difficult fight and I had to backtrack once in a while. It was very close in the end and every one could have won. @Maraxus: Better get some REAL ressources. Some CL 7 MM scrolls and you would've won easily and far cheaper. Burrow speed is gained by alter self. @Snommelp: AC 32 is just too hard to hit. If you elaborate your tactics a bit more, Grik will fare better in the future. @Huan: The Sheet! The Sheet! Oh, and Malither's Baelin fought against a 7-headed Cryo-Hydra. That wasn't a nice outcome. |
| Maraxus11-12-05, 09:54 AM | Great, I killed Grik. I got the "nice" 1000 xp and 1066 gold. ... And all it costed me were 1475 gp worth of scrolls (you forgot sleep). I hereby officially request to take away the 1/3 rule. ...Okay, after the earnings that still counted when I wrote my tactics (loser reward if you killed none, winner awart for each one you killed), I would have gotten 1600 gp and in that case the spendings would have been good but ... okay, I know my next week's tactic. Cat: Oh, jeah, more expendables... From which money, if I make looses in the fights I win (somehow)? PS: CL7 Magic Missle: 175 for average 4d4+4=14 damage -15% (CL-check failure) = 11.9 damage (14.7 gp per point of damage) CL3 Scorcing ray: 150 for average 4d6=14 damage -30% (miss chance, estimated) = 9.8 damage. (15.3 gp per point of damage) But Magic missle can easily defended against with shield, so I need a good mixture of Magic missles, fire, acid and electicity damage. |
| King Uther11-12-05, 10:27 AM | @Luni I've decided to allow you to actually earn some xp if you want. Send me tactics for fighting an EL5 Arrowhawk, unless you want to fight the eagles. |
| Huan11-12-05, 11:08 AM | *slaps himself* Oh man, that was indeed close. I also feel dumb for not activating my Daylight spell-like when both were vulnerable to it (whoops, heh heh, forgot...) Thanks for the fight, Caterane, I will revise my sheet later today (Dameon also levels up). |
| Caterane11-12-05, 11:54 AM | @Luni I've decided to allow you to actually earn some xp if you want. Send me tactics for fighting an EL5 Arrowhawk, unless you want to fight the eagles. It's still a miniquest so the EL is -2 @Maraxus: :( |
| King Uther11-12-05, 11:55 AM | Good call. Forgot it was a MQ instead of a monster fight. Fight some eagles, yo. |
| Sindorin11-12-05, 11:57 AM | Heh, another post saying REVOKE THE 1/3 RULE. Do I hear an echo? |
| Usurpator11-12-05, 12:07 PM | Heh, another post saying REVOKE THE 1/3 RULE. Do I hear an echo? Considering the current popularity of casters even despite the 1/3 rule? Hell no. Now casters are at least forced to use some expandables to make up for the lost power. |
| Snommelp11-12-05, 12:11 PM | Cat: Round 27 Grik's touch AC against Zassl is 17 (15, not 14, +2 dodge). That gets rid of 2 damage that round, as well as 6 the next round. |
| Usurpator11-12-05, 12:50 PM | Annix vs. Kraegin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7735444&postcount=627) is up. An exciting fight between two evenly matched opponents which turned out into a real thriller with the advantage swinging back and forth until the very final round of the fight. |
| Maraxus11-12-05, 01:29 PM | Sir Valkin vs Perius is up I hope, everything is okay, especially the rewards. |
| Mind Rogue11-12-05, 01:32 PM | Thank you for running the fight, it looks a rather close match. Can you edit in that Flamehair also used two powerstones of enlarged matter agitation? And I think Flamehair should get only 1050 XP/gp. A CR 1 is a 12.5% penalty for a ECL 4 gladiator. Oh, and please add 80 gp. from Craft(gemcutting), if only to avoid the NiQil police. ;) Done. It think that enlarged powerstones are kind of cheesy, but oh well. |
| SauroGrenom11-12-05, 01:41 PM | Sam vs Horseman is finished (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7724479&postcount=621). I just realized that I gave the giant a better grapple check modifier than he should have had because of the penalty from the tower shield was not caclulated. The error would only allow Sam to have a more decisive victory. Since this will not change the outcome, I'm going to ignore it unless you ask me to edit the fight. Poor Horseman it was an expensive loss, ad worst of all is that he may have won if he had his horse. |
| Snommelp11-12-05, 01:56 PM | Sam vs Horseman is finished (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7724479&postcount=621). I just realized that I gave the giant a better grapple check modifier than he should have had because of the penalty from the tower shield was not caclulated. The error would only allow Sam to have a more decisive victory. Since this will not change the outcome, I'm going to ignore it unless you ask me to edit the fight. Poor Horseman it was an expensive loss, ad worst of all is that he may have won if he had his horse. Doesn't change the fight at all, but Sam's full defense gives him +6, not +4 (synergy from tumble) for a total AC in round 7 of 30. Other than that, it looks well run to me. One question: would the natural 20 in round 13 be a critical threat? Again, has no effect on the outcome, just curious. |
| Maraxus11-12-05, 02:08 PM | Considering the current popularity of casters even despite the 1/3 rule? Hell no. Now casters are at least forced to use some expandables to make up for the lost power. Casters are popular? Let's check this, the last two pages in the characters thread bring: Soulknife3 Monk 2/Cleric 1 Psychic Warrior 3 Rogue 2/Ranger 2 Shaper 3 (One caster! - Well manifester, but that's close) Druid 2 / Sorceror 1 Wizard 3 (and another one) Wizard 3 Bard 3 Sorcerer 2 Rogue 1 / Ranger 1 / Fighter 1 Fighter 1, Psychic Warrior2 Ranger 2 / Fighter 1 Monk 1 Barbarian 3 Barbarian 1 Rogue 1/Fighter 2 Cleric 1, Psion [Kineticist] 2 Wilder 2/ Cleric 1 Rogue2/Wizard1 Monk 1 Rogue 1, Barbarian 1, Ranger 1 Paladin 3 Ranger1, Psychic Warrior1 Ranger 1, Fighter 1, Psion(Egoist) 1 Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/ Cleric 2 Diviner-3 Rouge 3 Fighter 2/Wizard 2 Wizard3 Level 1 Barbarian/Level 2 Fighter/Level 1 Psy-War Monk 1 / Psychic Warrior 2 Cleric 3 Druid4 Ranger 1, Figher 1, Psion(Egoist) 1 Druid3 Fighter 3 No caster (or less then half): IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII I - 21 Half or divine caster: IIIII I - 6 Primary caster (or manifester of cause): IIIIII - III 8 In other words, to me it looks like the caster are not very popular. And this has a reason. Look at the level 6 characters. Among 21 characters, 2 are pure casters and 2 have half or more of thier levels as casters (wizard, sorcerer (none), psion (none) or wilder (none) I don't want to check the level 5 characters but I know about half of the names and it looks even worse on this level. So: (Pure) casters are neither popular nor succesful. I think the main reason they are played is to play somethink not everybody plays. :) |
| SauroGrenom11-12-05, 02:10 PM | Doesn't change the fight at all, but Sam's full defense gives him +6, not +4 (synergy from tumble) for a total AC in round 7 of 30. Other than that, it looks well run to me. One question: would the natural 20 in round 13 be a critical threat? Again, has no effect on the outcome, just curious. I'm not sure how natural 20's work in conjunction with grapple checks. It is not technically an attack roll and a nat 20 one a grapple does not automatically mean that your grapple check succeeds, because it must exceed your opponent's check as well. I would say that there is no critical, but others who know more than I do may correct me. |
| Snommelp11-12-05, 02:12 PM | I'm not sure how natural 20's work in conjunction with grapple checks. It is not technically an attack roll and a nat 20 one a grapple does not automatically mean that your grapple check succeeds, because it must exceed your opponent's check as well. I would say that there is no critical, but others who know more than I do may correct me. However you want to rule it is fine by me; like I said, it has absolutely no effect on the outcome. |
| El_Jaguaro11-12-05, 02:37 PM | (Pure) casters are neither popular nor succesful. I think the main reason they are played is to play somethink not everybody plays. :) Reason they are played: Very poweful Reason they are not played: Very complicated to run properly and detail tactics with a winning strategy. Reason some are unsuccessful and have died off: Not run by true min/max'ers If you can combine the first two, casters are for you. |
| Usurpator11-12-05, 03:05 PM | No Casters: 13 Soulknife3, Rogue 2/Ranger 2, Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Fighter 1, Ranger 2/Fighter 1, Monk 1, Barbarian 3, Barbarian 1, Rogue 1/Fighter 2, Monk 1, Rogue 1/Barbarian 1/Ranger 1, Paladin 3, Rogue 3, Fighter 3 Hybrids: 10 Monk 2/Cleric 1, Fighter 1/Psychic Warrior2, Rogue2/Wizard1, Ranger1/Psychic Warrior1, Ranger 1/Fighter 1/Psion(Egoist) 1, Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Cleric 2, Fighter 2/Wizard 2, Level 1 Barbarian/Level 2 Fighter/Level 1 Psy-War, Monk 1/Psychic Warrior 2, Ranger 1/Figher 1/Psion(Egoist) 1 Full Casters: 14 Psychic Warrior 3; Shaper 3; Druid 2/Sorceror 1; Wizard 3; Wizard 3; Bard 3; Sorcerer 2; Cleric 1/Psion [Kineticist] 2; Wilder 2/Cleric 1; Diviner 3; Wizard3; Cleric 3; Druid4; Druid3 Seems quite balanced to me. You and I have a different definition of caster. My definition is: every character that suffers from the 1/3rd rule. Currently 24 out of 37 characters chose to take levels in such classes despite this rule. This proves to me that the rule is not delibating to the enviroment. On the contrary, apparently it results in a quite even distribution. Talking about pure wizards or sorcerers skews the issue. Since when are divine casters not casters? You don't see many pure fighters as well in your summary. Does anyone see that as problem? Choosing levels in casting classes, whether being a full caster or a hybrid seems to be popular enough. In the PHB there are 5 caster classes and 6 non-caster classes. So it is only logical that with an even distribution there should be slightly more non-casters then casters. |
| NiQil11-12-05, 03:12 PM | I'm not sure how natural 20's work in conjunction with grapple checks. It is not technically an attack roll and a nat 20 one a grapple does not automatically mean that your grapple check succeeds, because it must exceed your opponent's check as well. I would say that there is no critical, but others who know more than I do may correct me. With regard to natural 20's and grapples The initial melee touch attack to start a grapple is an attack role, and can therefore score a critical. If it is confirmed, the grapple damage is doubled. As I verified earlier with my fight, much to my chagrin, a grapple check is not an attack roll, and is therefore not subject to critical success or failure. A 20 on a grapple check does nothing more than give you a really good check...you still have to beat the opposed roll. @ Snommelp: Another rule to add to WAR's list, methinks. |
| Snommelp11-12-05, 03:13 PM | With regard to natural 20's and grapples The initial melee touch attack to start a grapple is an attack role, and can therefore score a critical. If it is confirmed, the grapple damage is doubled. As I verified earlier with my fight, much to my chagrin, a grapple check is not an attack roll, and is therefore not subject to critical success or failure. A 20 on a grapple check does nothing more than give you a really good check...you still have to beat the opposed roll. @ Snommelp: Another rule to add to WAR's list, methinks. Done and done. |
| Caterane11-12-05, 03:47 PM | Cat: Round 27 Grik's touch AC against Zassl is 17 (15, not 14, +2 dodge). That gets rid of 2 damage that round, as well as 6 the next round. How so? 10+4dex+1dodge+1deflection = 16. |
| Snommelp11-12-05, 03:56 PM | How so? 10+4dex+1dodge+1deflection = 16. Oops... for some reason I thought the feat granted +2 AC... my mistake. |
| Maraxus11-12-05, 04:00 PM | Usurpator: A cleric has a medium BAB and hit die, the Druid also has an Animal companion. The Bard has ... about nothing but with a medium BAB and skills. A Psychic Warrior has BAB, hit die and feats. All of this is not subject to the 1/3 rule (naturally). Okay, this makes sense when you say, this represents the fact, that an adventurer has about 3 encounters per day. - Except for the hit points. Well, let's see how much of the new wizards actually get it till level 4. El_Jaguaro: You don't really have much optimisation-possibilities at level 3. And even if that changes till level 5 or 6, if you still have no more wealth then a level 3 character, you will be behind the fighters PS: But let's not make this a topic about how powerful wizards, sorcerer and psions are compared to clerics, druids or Psi-Warriors or compared to fighters and barbs. |
| Snommelp11-12-05, 04:07 PM | El_Jaguaro: You don't really have much optimisation-possibilities at level 3. And even if that changes till level 5 or 6, if you still have no more wealth then a level 3 character, you will be behind the fighters My characters are the only ones I've seen who don't regularly use expendables, so the mages won't be that far behind in wealth, usually. |
| Ravashack11-12-05, 04:07 PM | Bah. I should have said to augment a 4 PP Offensive Prescience with a 2 level Wild Surge to be able to manifest it as a swift action. Oh well. Would have only let me have one hit. |
| Begferdeth11-12-05, 07:11 PM | Dammit, burned alive and protection from fire doesnt help? That just doesnt seem right. Chili just cant catch a break. I think you forgot the Psionic Shot on the Cold Ray in round 10... thats an extra 2d6 damage. Wont change much. But doesnt damage break concentration? I see Chili making concentration checks, but none for Flamehair. I guess its time to go buy Enlarged versions of every powerstone out there, since its free. Tell me THAT isnt broken somehow... Anyways, Ive got all the tactics in... Ill start running my fight tomorrow. |
| Usurpator11-12-05, 07:16 PM | Dammit, burned alive and protection from fire doesnt help? That just doesnt seem right. Chili just cant catch a break. No need to get all 'agitated' over it. ;) But, I guess its time to go buy Enlarged versions of every powerstone out there, since its free. Tell me THAT isnt broken somehow... Broken, probably not. Kind of stupid, yes, most definitely. Saw the discussion here and thought, what the heck, if it costs nothing extra, there's no reason not to buy enlarged versions..... |
| Gonbow11-12-05, 07:47 PM | Re: Enlarged Powerstones When this was first brought up, I recall Cat saying something along the lines of it not being allowed until rules to increase the price were put in place, since, as you say... Why not enlarge if it doesn't increase the price? I could be off-base though. |
| Book511-12-05, 10:00 PM | just finished fight, will be up soon Heh, another post saying REVOKE THE 1/3 RULE. Do I hear an echo? Actually... The first time I heard it I was like "What!?! I bet no one plays casters" however some of the most successful gladiators have been casters. (Actually - the [b]most[b] successful seem to be the characters with psychic warrior levels but.. ) however, as I have now seen about a dozen fights end with the correct application of a single spell - Im not sure I can agree with removing the limit. On the other hand - reducing the limit to 1/2 or something wouldnt bother me. 1/3 seems a little harsh. Looking at a character who could cast another scorching ray but... "cant", and then looses makes my stomach feel wierd. Factoid - DDO had to change the spellcasting mechanism 'cause the casters were running out of spells too often. Thats exploration combat though, not arena battle. |
| TelinArtho11-12-05, 10:16 PM | Annix vs. Kraegin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7735444&postcount=627) is up. An exciting fight between two evenly matched opponents which turned out into a real thriller with the advantage swinging back and forth until the very final round of the fight. There's still plenty of it for me to go through, but so far it all looks good. Some very lucky rolls there on the end... not that I'm complaining or anything... |
| TelinArtho11-12-05, 10:17 PM | Sir Valkin vs Perius is up I hope, everything is okay, especially the rewards. That went just about as well as I expected. The only thing I was truly worried about was him taking out Foreman before I had the chance to close (in other words by getting in a lucky high-damage hit that wasn't negated by Mounted Combat...). Anyway - another solid victory for my paladin... |
| Mind Rogue11-13-05, 12:11 AM | Dammit, burned alive and protection from fire doesnt help? That just doesnt seem right. Chili just cant catch a break. I think you forgot the Psionic Shot on the Cold Ray in round 10... thats an extra 2d6 damage. Wont change much. But doesnt damage break concentration? I see Chili making concentration checks, but none for Flamehair. I guess its time to go buy Enlarged versions of every powerstone out there, since its free. Tell me THAT isnt broken somehow... Anyways, Ive got all the tactics in... Ill start running my fight tomorrow. Well, your super Mind Thrust actually broke his concentration on the first Matter Agitation. However, I did get slopy and miss a few concentration checks, which when edited in, cause him to loose concentration. As a result, this becomes an archery duel (and yes, he does get his strength bonus with a sling). The result ends up the same, but you both use a few more expendables. Personally, I was also surprised that Matter Agitation doesn't deal fire damage (or at least I was the first time it was used on me and I planned on using Resist Energy). I do also find the metapsioniced powerstones cheesy: either they probably shouldn't be allowed or they should require the expenditure of psionic focus to use. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-13-05, 12:18 AM | Well, your super Mind Thrust actually broke his concentration on the first Matter Agitation. However, I did get slopy and miss a few concentration checks, which when edited in, cause him to loose concentration. As a result, this becomes an archery duel (and yes, he does get his strength bonus with a sling). The result ends up the same, but you both use a few more expendables. Personally, I was also surprised that Matter Agitation doesn't deal fire damage (or at least I was the first time it was used on me and I planned on using Resist Energy). I do also find the metapsioniced powerstones cheesy: either they probably shouldn't be allowed or they should require the expenditure of psionic focus to use. Last time i was in a fight with someone with matter agitation, i specified in my tactics that i was shaving myself completely bald (EVERYWHERE), and completely naked other than kit. It completely shuts down the "burn his hair" trick. And i know this from reading his past fights and read his previous tactics. I saw he used this to win at least once, so i didn't wanna be another folically burned out victim. LOL. It pays to study your opponent. -ToK |
| Luni11-13-05, 12:30 AM | Last time i was in a fight with someone with matter agitation, i specified in my tactics that i was shaving myself completely bald (EVERYWHERE), and completely naked other than kit. It completely shuts down the "burn his hair" trick. And i know this from reading his past fights and read his previous tactics. I saw he used this to win at least once, so i didn't wanna be another folically burned out victim. LOL. It pays to study your opponent. -ToK Or you can simply move out of range causing the power to fail. Even with enlarged, it is only a 50' range power at level 1. Thats not far to move away from unless you are levitating. |
| Gonbow11-13-05, 12:37 AM | Or you can simply move out of range causing the power to fail. Even with enlarged, it is only a 50' range power at level 1. Thats not far to move away from unless you are levitating. Yeah... Just don't ready to do so. Because you cant ready to dodge an attack, which includes spells that do damage. >.< As per the CC rules.. (Which caused me to lose my last fight. Yay.) |
| Book511-13-05, 12:38 AM | A nail biter! Two lovely ladies duke it out... (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7740208#post7740208) :snicker: Auburns "prettier than an angel" (Cha 14 vs Cha 13... ) Pending images as usual |
| Iced11-13-05, 12:58 AM | Annix vs. Kraegin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7735444&postcount=627) is up. An exciting fight between two evenly matched opponents which turned out into a real thriller with the advantage swinging back and forth until the very final round of the fight. *sigh* can't argue with two crits... |
| Vathelokai11-13-05, 03:09 AM | A nail biter! Two lovely ladies duke it out... (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7740208#post7740208) :snicker: Auburns "prettier than an angel" (Cha 14 vs Cha 13... ) Pending images as usual Sorry to be the rules lawyer here... In round 4, there are no barriers between Auburn and Azriel, and Azriel has no hide skill, so there would be autospot. http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/Vathelokai/CoCo%20Maps/thusly.jpg Since Azriel was armed for melee, Auburn would not have used the prot. arrows scroll, and would have readied to cast colorspray. That would have reset Auburn's initiative to right before Azriel's until round 9, when Auburn uses a ready action. Dosn't change much unless some fancy footwork is done by Raven to negate the need for a ready action. In that case, it could effect the end of the fight. In round 8, Auburn uses a full move to switch scrolls. I'm not disagreeing, but I've never seen stowing a scroll taking a move action. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough. Anyone have a reference? Round 13+ mage armor has a much longer durration of hours instead of rounds; you seem to have used shields durration. This would make Azriel miss in round 14 and 20. Very pivotal. In round 11 Auburn resisted the prevenom, and thus wouldn't have taken 2 con damage in round 14 since the effect discharges. Also pivotal. In round 14 and 15, Auburn casts chill touch, then scorching ray; since chill touch is a charged effect, it dismisses if Auburn casts another spell. These two spells would have been cast in the opposite rounds. Dosn't change much. Similarly, in round 17, Auburn casts magic missile, which would dismiss the chill touch. Thus the tactic to aid other on the familar to help it hit, instead of casting more spells. This would have made the raven hit in round 19. In round 17, your rolled 1d6+1 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=187008) instead of a d20 to hit. Can't hold that again' anybody. Done it myself plenty. In my opponents defense, Raven never made a tumble check to avoid AOO, which could easily swing things back her direction. Raven's tiny, so she has to enter her opponents space to attack = AOO. |
| Dracazar11-13-05, 06:01 AM | Vivi Ornitier Senior (Dr.Funk) vs Kracknol (SauroGrenom) is up Let me know what do you think, this is my 1st Pitlording. EDIT: Damn! The board doesn't accept my IMG tag, it doesnt' show 'inline' the images I wrote: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php?v=1&a=Vivi,-22,-4,-22,-4,M,&b=Krac,4,-22,4,-22,M,&c=Pad,4,-22,4,-22,S, It seems that the board doesn't show inline images if they have parameters, everything next to the "?" Any hint? |
| One_Winged_Angel11-13-05, 12:43 PM | @Vath: A couple things Hide is untrained. That means the fighter in full plate with 3 dex and no skills can attempt to hide. Scrolls are like weapons for drawing, that means they are weapons for putting away as well. Mage armor is true, as is con damage. However... My complaints if re-run: No save vs. chill touch? No, it does not auto str drain. Nor is there SR rolled for that, which may or may not help. More after I get back from church. |
| TelinArtho11-13-05, 12:48 PM | @Vath: A couple things Hide is untrained. That means the fighter in full plate with 3 dex and no skills can attempt to hide. Scrolls are like weapons for drawing, that means they are weapons for putting away as well. Mage armor is true, as is con damage. However... My complaints if re-run: No save vs. chill touch? No, it does not auto str drain. Nor is there SR rolled for that, which may or may not help. More after I get back from church. Scrolls are not like weapons for drawing. They take a move action to draw, but cannot be completed during a regular move action. This goes the same for putting them away. |
| Vathelokai11-13-05, 02:32 PM | @Vath: A couple things Hide is untrained. That means the fighter in full plate with 3 dex and no skills can attempt to hide. Yes, but without hide ranks you can only hide if there is cover or concealment. As shown in the graphic, there was neither. Scrolls are like weapons for drawing, that means they are weapons for putting away as well. Noted. Mage armor is true, as is con damage. However... My complaints if re-run: No save vs. chill touch? No, it does not auto str drain. Nor is there SR rolled for that, which may or may not help. The SR for the scorching ray and chill touch were rolled at the same time here. (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=186997) You are correct about the will saves to resist str drain though. More after I get back from church. Also after sleeping on it, I realize that auburn couldn't have cast shocking grasp in round 7 becuase she was out of spell levels after casting fly, colorspray, and glitterdust. She would be on expendables at that point. If it can be done, I'd rather see edits instead of a rerun. Mainly because I would feel like a schmuck if the colorspray worked on round 3 in the rerun. |
| Luni11-13-05, 02:35 PM | 4way FFA is up Here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7744302&postcount=633) I don't expect it to be error free. Notes: Being unconscious isn't always bad. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-13-05, 02:48 PM | Team Battle is also done. Completely lopsided, one-sided battle. Team Battle -ToK |
| Snommelp11-13-05, 02:51 PM | 4way FFA is up Here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7744302&postcount=633) I don't expect it to be error free. Notes: Being unconscious isn't always bad. That was quite the fire-fight at the end there. It seems that the one spell Hennan used could have been better saved for CLW; that's going to be noted for future fights. Thanks for running such a difficult fight, Luni. I'm glad my invisibility prediction didn't pan out. |
| TelinArtho11-13-05, 02:57 PM | 4way FFA is up Here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7744302&postcount=633) I don't expect it to be error free. Notes: Being unconscious isn't always bad. Why didn't you use the two already poisoned arrows against Hennan? Round 7 and 10 both hit - so this makes a bit of a difference - because he could have easily failed his save in one of those 2 instances. And in case there's any question of whether it was in my tactics: My goal is to get all of my opponents with poisoned arrows. So keep shooting the poisoned ones until my poisoned ones run out. Also, one of the poison arrows misses - so I would appreciate knowing whether it survives or not on a specific roll (I'm in general fine with the application of an arbitrary 50%, but since there is only one miss - I think it should be rolled). |
| Snommelp11-13-05, 03:05 PM | Why didn't you use the two already poisoned arrows against Hennan? Round 7 and 10 both hit - so this makes a bit of a difference - because he could have easily failed his save in one of those 2 instances. I'd say it's because you shot off the two poisoned arrows. One hit, so it's out. The other missed, but if it was recoverable you'd have to go find it before shooting Hennan with it. That's X number of rounds of Hennan shooting you and you not shooting back. EDIT: Never mind. I was mistaken about what you meant. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-13-05, 03:29 PM | 4way FFA is up Here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7744302&postcount=633) I don't expect it to be error free. Notes: Being unconscious isn't always bad. A couple things: 1) I specifically stated that I wanted to wait as long as possible before acting. Despite this, Wraith suddenly just shoots up and casts color spray without delay. Moving to try to get close doesn't count against my limit. Yes, it's cowardly. Yes, it's not exactly a fair tactic. But Wraith is not a build suited for this. 2) I wanted to wait for an angle to catch more than one or wait for the others to die. Again, see above. 3) No Ghost sound to make it image believable, but oh well. Just a trick. This is just me rambling though. I was at least hoping to not be the first out. If it's possible, please try to re-run with this in mind. @Vath: Re-run/Edit is only fair. I believe in fairness. @Book 5: ? |
| Luni11-13-05, 03:29 PM | Why didn't you use the two already poisoned arrows against Hennan? Round 7 and 10 both hit - so this makes a bit of a difference - because he could have easily failed his save in one of those 2 instances. And in case there's any question of whether it was in my tactics: Also, one of the poison arrows misses - so I would appreciate knowing whether it survives or not on a specific roll (I'm in general fine with the application of an arbitrary 50%, but since there is only one miss - I think it should be rolled). You had already poisoned arrows?. Ah. I see them now. According to Caterane, stuff like poison, spells and powers don't carry over from one fight to the next. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-13-05, 03:33 PM | @O_W_A: just a quick note, i didn't read the fight so i dunno what may or may not have happened with ur tactics, but silent image ends when you stop concentrating, so you can't ghost sound it to make it more believable. -ToK |
| Gonbow11-13-05, 03:33 PM | Team Battle is also done. Completely lopsided, one-sided battle. Team Battle -ToK Yes, that /was/ the idea. ^_^ Two things: Could you add a note about our profession money? (Me and Leif were both getting 57 gp from them) and the force screen was manifested from memory, but the protection from chaos was not. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-13-05, 03:34 PM | Yes, that /was/ the idea. ^_^ Two things: Could you add a note about our profession money? (Me and Leif were both getting 57 gp from them) and the force screen was manifested from memory, but the protection from chaos was not. Done~ |
| One_Winged_Angel11-13-05, 03:37 PM | @O_W_A: just a quick note, i didn't read the fight so i dunno what may or may not have happened with ur tactics, but silent image ends when you stop concentrating, so you can't ghost sound it to make it more believable. -ToK That's...odd...since it states it right in the spell description of ghost sound...hmm...bah. Rules. I hate them. Probably why I lose so often :P |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-13-05, 03:40 PM | That's...odd...since it states it right in the spell description of ghost sound...hmm...bah. Rules. I hate them. Probably why I lose so often :P Ghost sound first, then silent image and you'r all set. :) -ToK |
| One_Winged_Angel11-13-05, 03:41 PM | Ghost sound first, then silent image and you'r all set. :) -ToK Tellish, do you always need to make me feel stupid ;) |
| NiQil11-13-05, 03:43 PM | You had already poisoned arrows?. Ah. I see them now. According to Caterane, stuff like poison, spells and powers don't carry over from one fight to the next. This is incorrect for poisoning weapons. There are several fights that I can site that show people poisoning things in one fight, and then using them in another. This is done specifically because you can't prebuff poison without the poison use ability. So taking the time at the beginning or end of a match to poison something for future fights is perfectly legal. To view it from another standpoint....since poison does not go away until the condition for its deployment is met (whether it is a touch poison, injury, etc), it would be just like the psionic power Dissolving Weapon in that it would be there until "activated." |
| Begferdeth11-13-05, 04:20 PM | Alyana vs Mektos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7744990&postcount=635) is up! AegisShade, those were the most confusing tactics Ive ever read. Why did you start the list with a "dont use these tactics", and then everything else in the list was "If that didnt work"? I think I got the gist of it. Hopefully. Maybe. *Sigh* Fjord lost too. Somehow I saw this coming... stupid flying mages and mephits. :( I propose a new arena with a 10' ceiling! :P |
| Begferdeth11-13-05, 04:22 PM | Thanks for rerunning it! I dont know how Chili was supposed to get through a whole dorje worth of extra HP. Well, your super Mind Thrust actually broke his concentration on the first Matter Agitation. However, I did get slopy and miss a few concentration checks, which when edited in, cause him to loose concentration. As a result, this becomes an archery duel (and yes, he does get his strength bonus with a sling). The result ends up the same, but you both use a few more expendables. Personally, I was also surprised that Matter Agitation doesn't deal fire damage (or at least I was the first time it was used on me and I planned on using Resist Energy). I do also find the metapsioniced powerstones cheesy: either they probably shouldn't be allowed or they should require the expenditure of psionic focus to use. |
| Macbrea11-13-05, 04:39 PM | Alyana vs Mektos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7744990&postcount=635) is up! I have one problem with the fight and one with the amount of money/exp at the end. First, the Potion of Reduce person (250gp) is a CL 5 potion. Therefor, it lasts 50 round not 10. If you want to not use to potion and claim I am casting reduce person myself with my 2 available reduce person spells I am fine with that as they only do last 10 rounds. Second. The award for this fight should be +900/+900 and +300/+300 because the following quote from the Allies 1 thread. Exception: Class allies Class allies are allies that come from a class feature, like a wizard's familiar, a druid or ranger animal companion, or a paladin warhorse. These allies never require a share of xp. Except for thralls and planar cohorts, they do not even count against your maxCA. |
| Cerebus1311-13-05, 04:53 PM | Shakari vs Yoriko (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7745289&postcount=636) is up. Let me know if anything is broken. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-13-05, 05:03 PM | Kronos vs. Maven (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7745372&postcount=637) is up. Please pardon the story. It's been a long week. |
| Ravashack11-13-05, 05:04 PM | Maraxus: My reward should be edited to 400 XP/400 GP I think. Although if there's a reason why I should get the extra 50 XP/GP, I'll take it. :) |
| NiQil11-13-05, 05:28 PM | Kronos vs. Maven (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7745372&postcount=637) is up. Please pardon the story. It's been a long week. The rewards for this "fight" are incorrect....you have it labeled and rewarded as an ECL 3 fight, and the fight is, in fact, an ECL 4 fight. Kronos should be making 84 gp, not 63, and should have won 1200 x 1.25 = 1500 xp/gp |
| Luni11-13-05, 05:30 PM | Shakari vs Yoriko (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7745289&postcount=636) is up. Let me know if anything is broken. Sigh. My stupid tactics. I should of added "If she just shoots crossbow bolts at me, remove the entangle so my Bull's Strength doesn't wear off. |
| Luni11-13-05, 05:32 PM | This is incorrect for poisoning weapons. There are several fights that I can site that show people poisoning things in one fight, and then using them in another. This is done specifically because you can't prebuff poison without the poison use ability. So taking the time at the beginning or end of a match to poison something for future fights is perfectly legal. To view it from another standpoint....since poison does not go away until the condition for its deployment is met (whether it is a touch poison, injury, etc), it would be just like the psionic power Dissolving Weapon in that it would be there until "activated." I can't find it, but Caterane told Pittbull, his Dissolving Weapon buffs can't carry over from one fight to the next. |
| Luni11-13-05, 05:34 PM | A couple things: 1) I specifically stated that I wanted to wait as long as possible before acting. Despite this, Wraith suddenly just shoots up and casts color spray without delay. Moving to try to get close doesn't count against my limit. Yes, it's cowardly. Yes, it's not exactly a fair tactic. But Wraith is not a build suited for this. 2) I wanted to wait for an angle to catch more than one or wait for the others to die. Again, see above. 3) No Ghost sound to make it image believable, but oh well. Just a trick. This is just me rambling though. I was at least hoping to not be the first out. If it's possible, please try to re-run with this in mind. @Vath: Re-run/Edit is only fair. I believe in fairness. @Book 5: ? 1: Perhaps I was a bit too hasty here. Even if you waited til round 10 the outcome would still be the same, as they wouldn't have killed each other, and your color spray wouldn't have any lasting effect. 2: You saw Tan die. He got hit by an arrow and fell over. Pretty convincing death from 120' away. 3: Ghost Sound is stationary. Silent Image doesn't last past concentration either. You want to use Ventriloquism. Cast Vent, then Silent Image then it works like you want it too. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-13-05, 05:36 PM | The rewards for this "fight" are incorrect....you have it labeled and rewarded as an ECL 3 fight, and the fight is, in fact, an ECL 4 fight. Kronos should be making 84 gp, not 63, and should have won 1200 x 1.25 = 1500 xp/gp ...very, very long week. Edited rewards. No other objections, yes? :P |
| NiQil11-13-05, 05:41 PM | I can't find it, but Caterane told Pittbull, his Dissolving Weapon buffs can't carry over from one fight to the next. That will probably be something yer gonna need to have Cat chime in on, then, because that is totally 1000% against the RAW per the power description. Also, as I said there are numerous fights where poisons have been applied to weapons in battles and were not used and then used in future battles. If you want examples, take a look at the first couple of fights for my character Kronos, or most any fight for the character Milo Tad. Poisoned weapons has been consistantly ruled in fights here that the effects stay on the weapon until the condition for their deployment is met. Going against that would need clarification from Cat or the Elder council. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-13-05, 05:43 PM | 1: Perhaps I was a bit too hasty here. Even if you waited til round 10 the outcome would still be the same, as they wouldn't have killed each other, and your color spray wouldn't have any lasting effect. 2: You saw Tan die. He got hit by an arrow and fell over. Pretty convincing death from 120' away. 3: Ghost Sound is stationary. Silent Image doesn't last past concentration either. You want to use Ventriloquism. Cast Vent, then Silent Image then it works like you want it too. 1. I challange that as a mere 5 rounds later, another gladiator was CDGed. It's a difference of order of death, so it's not just a "would not have changed a thing." 2. Off a pure rule factor, there is a difference between falling over and dying. My DM is a jerk about this. I now check every body by stabbing it to make sure they aren't bluffing. I don't see a bluff check. |
| Mal-211-13-05, 05:51 PM | Shakari vs Yoriko (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7745289&postcount=636) is up. Let me know if anything is broken. Does the fact that Shakari is using a reach weapon to charge (in round 35) change anything? I admit I'm not up on the rules for grappling someone on horseback who is weilding a reach weapon, but my first thought was that Yoriko shouldn't be able to reach Shakari to start the grapple. |
| Usurpator11-13-05, 06:03 PM | 2. Off a pure rule factor, there is a difference between falling over and dying. My DM is a jerk about this. I now check every body by stabbing it to make sure they aren't bluffing. I don't see a bluff check. Stupidly enough in D&D you can only fall over (as a bluff or otherwise) on your own initiative, but if you keel over on someone's else initiative, it is usually safe to assume it isn't a bluff. :) |
| One_Winged_Angel11-13-05, 06:07 PM | Stupidly enough in D&D you can only fall over (as a bluff or otherwise) on your own initiative, but if you keel over on someone's else initiative, it is usually safe to assume it isn't a bluff. :) All the same, there is usually safe reason to assume someone isn't dead. You know, they tend to do things like breath, snore, move slightly, etc. There's also not a blood curdling scream in most cases... |
| Macbrea11-13-05, 06:07 PM | Technically, you can ready an action to fall over on another persons initiative! |
| Usurpator11-13-05, 06:11 PM | That will probably be something yer gonna need to have Cat chime in on, then, because that is totally 1000% against the RAW per the power description. Also, as I said there are numerous fights where poisons have been applied to weapons in battles and were not used and then used in future battles. If you want examples, take a look at the first couple of fights for my character Kronos, or most any fight for the character Milo Tad. Poisoned weapons has been consistantly ruled in fights here that the effects stay on the weapon until the condition for their deployment is met. Going against that would need clarification from Cat or the Elder council. I somehow assumed this was off limits. If not, you will see many of my gladiators coming in with one or more prebuffed Dissolving Weapons. After all, it is available as a spellcaster service for 150 gp. and the extra 4d6 will often make a big difference. |
| Mal-211-13-05, 06:11 PM | I admit I'm not up on the rules for grappling someone on horseback who is weilding a reach weapon, but my first thought was that Yoriko shouldn't be able to reach Shakari to start the grapple. Nevermind, I missed that Yoriko was enlarged. |
| Usurpator11-13-05, 06:14 PM | Technically, you can ready an action to fall over on another persons initiative! You can, but since you can see that someone is readying, I tend not to trust people who are clearly waiting for me to do something, and then keel over with a death gurgle without interrupting my 'killing strike' somehow. |
| Mal-211-13-05, 06:17 PM | I somehow assumed this was off limits. If not, you will see many of my gladiators coming in with one or more prebuffed Dissolving Weapons. After all, it is available as a spellcaster service for 150 gp. and the extra 4d6 will often make a big difference. It's not allowed in Spellcaster Services: You may not buy any spells that affect the arena (like Wall of Stone). The spell must not have a target of 'personal' and no duration of 'concentration'. Dissolving Weapon has a range of Personal. In the example, right after that rule, it says "you may not order Dissolving Weapon (instantaneous but personal)" |
| Mind Rogue11-13-05, 06:38 PM | Shakari vs Yoriko (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7745289&postcount=636) is up. Let me know if anything is broken. The only comment I have is that you cannot simultaneously use ride for cover and use mounted combat to negate a hit. Thus the horse should have taken some damage there. However, I find it highly unlikely that I would have dealt enough to knock out the horse, so it doesn't really matter. Also, while enlarged, my damage increases with both the crossbow and the unarmed strike to 2d6, but this would just mean I'd kill her faster. |
| Luni11-13-05, 06:42 PM | I somehow assumed this was off limits. If not, you will see many of my gladiators coming in with one or more prebuffed Dissolving Weapons. After all, it is available as a spellcaster service for 150 gp. and the extra 4d6 will often make a big difference. Or just take 1 rank in UPD and spend 1000 rounds after the fight trying to put it on your weapons. I don't see why these poison arrows get to carry over, but spells with durations in days/weeks/months have to be pre-buffed every week. |
| Luni11-13-05, 06:45 PM | The only comment I have is that you cannot simultaneously use ride for cover and use mounted combat to negate a hit. Thus the horse should have taken some damage there. However, I find it highly unlikely that I would have dealt enough to knock out the horse, so it doesn't really matter. Also, while enlarged, my damage increases with both the crossbow and the unarmed strike to 2d6, but this would just mean I'd kill her faster. Yeah, should be no cover for the charge. Also, I don't think we are using the hits the cover instead rule, as I believe that is optional. I just think it is silly, that we are grappling on the back of the horse, yet the horse still gets 2 hoofs and 1 bite attack. I'll admit that not winning one grapple check isn't fun. |
| Maraxus11-13-05, 06:57 PM | Maraxus: My reward should be edited to 400 XP/400 GP I think. Although if there's a reason why I should get the extra 50 XP/GP, I'll take it. :) Your opponent has an horse, so he get's a little less and you a little more. I think I remember this were that numbers. |
| Cerebus1311-13-05, 07:55 PM | The only comment I have is that you cannot simultaneously use ride for cover and use mounted combat to negate a hit. Thus the horse should have taken some damage there. However, I find it highly unlikely that I would have dealt enough to knock out the horse, so it doesn't really matter. Also, while enlarged, my damage increases with both the crossbow and the unarmed strike to 2d6, but this would just mean I'd kill her faster.Why can't you use a mount for cover and use mounted combat to negate a hit to the mount? According to the Ride skill that particular action isn't even a free action, and when using it you only cannot attack or cast spells. The Mounted Combat feat is used reactively to an attack to your mount, and again there is no action listed for using it...only that it is usable once per round. Can you explain the reasoning behind not combining the two of these so I can be better prepared for future fights? Yeah, should be no cover for the charge. Also, I don't think we are using the hits the cover instead rule, as I believe that is optional. I just think it is silly, that we are grappling on the back of the horse, yet the horse still gets 2 hoofs and 1 bite attack. I'll admit that not winning one grapple check isn't fun.I forgot to increase Yoriko's damage for being enlarged, but unless something changes that may cause Shakari to win I won't bother. It may seem silly that you are grappling together while the horse is allowed to attack but the CoCo has a house rule that if a mount cannot hold an opponent, then the opponent is forced to grapple the rider adjacent to the mount and not mounted upon it. Since Yoriko is Large sized, and Shakari's mount is also Large, she can't hop onto it. This all came from a Rules of the Game article on grappling I believe. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-13-05, 08:27 PM | 1. I challange that as a mere 5 rounds later, another gladiator was CDGed. It's a difference of order of death, so it's not just a "would not have changed a thing." 2. Off a pure rule factor, there is a difference between falling over and dying. My DM is a jerk about this. I now check every body by stabbing it to make sure they aren't bluffing. I don't see a bluff check. I almost forgot to add this, but I would have had longer than to round 10. Unlesss you are counting my 2 buffing rounds and movement towards the battle as rounds against the counter. |
| Luni11-13-05, 08:32 PM | I almost forgot to add this, but I would have had longer than to round 10. Unlesss you are counting my 2 buffing rounds and movement towards the battle as rounds against the counter. Buffing and movement counts as delayers. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-13-05, 09:34 PM | Very well then. I still have 3 rounds before something happens. Luni, despite the fact that you are saying that if I waited another few rounds it would have not done a thing, I see three gladiators all within a round or two of killing each other. The attack shot at me would have put Tangle at 1 hp. After that, due to my intervention, he suddenly has a new target that is easier to kill. All I was was some joke throw in to make the fight easier for Henen to come out on top. No offense, but I don't like seeing my character and my tactics disregarded so easily. |
| TelinArtho11-13-05, 09:53 PM | Well, until I get an official ruling, I will cease that argument - even if I feel it is wrong. Regardless, here's something that will change a little I think: Round 17: Tanglewood shoots Hennan [Atk: 11+6vsDC17. Miss]. Hennan shoots his bow at Tangle [Atk 2+5vsAC18. Miss]. Seems to me that 11+6=17 vs AC17 - which would be a hit. |
| Book511-13-05, 09:54 PM | A couple things: @Vath: Re-run/Edit is only fair. I believe in fairness. @Book 5: ? Hehe eh, sorry, in the midst of a "mini-quest" of my own all last night afterwork and today. I'll start looking over what Vath & OWA have determined to adjust, I have nothing to do but sit on my rewards for the next two days. - Hopefully I'll have it up before (my)Dawn. @Luni - I think the fight looks great! Darn Dice Gods! I didnt include any comment regarding Tanglewoods posion cause.. well there is no compensation. - That was an unspoken motivation regarding "attack Tanglewood with daggers - melee - no poison arrows." but.. I.. really shouldnt blame the Dice Gods (tm) :tantrum: This is not your fault Luni... but ... :nonono: one point :nonono: one fing point umm... :banghead: my own fault... but.. um.. Tan's Fort + is .. +4. (+2 Fighter, +1 Con, +1 racial) Its my bad I wrote it down wrong but .. if Tan... might .. :explode: If Tan doesnt fall asleep before he even takes a single shot!! 4th round!?! Technically I was the first one out... If I had put the right save bonus down :arg: :plotting: really - If Wraith hadnt quit I would have complained about accepting "third." Quiters always loose, but I got taken out first. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-13-05, 09:59 PM | :plotting: really - If Wraith hadnt quit I would have complained about accepting "third." Quiters always loose, but I got taken out first. Don't be such a meanie... :weep: Besides, there is a debate as to what is happening, although I have 0 idea if Luni is going to do a fixer upper. |
| TelinArtho11-13-05, 10:02 PM | I've sent a PM to Pitlords/Cat about the poison issue. |
| Book511-13-05, 10:34 PM | Don't be such a meanie... :weep: I prefer the term "hard ass" :P I just dont see why you would actually harikari instead of giving it the go. I mean sure maybe "if x happens then dont expend ANY more items" and go the rest of the fight with basic attacks only, but what can I say. I.. cant.. feel goodabout this but I would like a rerun from rnd4 - OWA would agree, this carryover issue.... well ... sorry Luni, but Regarding carryover of expendables like poisoned arrows. "If fighters can maximize their item creation ability in such that they can reasonably claim that they will not have used those items in the intervening days... then the argument that casters can only use 1/3 of their spellpower in a fight due to the expectation that they will be involved in three fights a day is... less than reinforced." |
| Luni11-13-05, 10:45 PM | @FFA Fight: Since Book5 worte down his Fort. Save wrong, I'll probably end up redoing the fight from the save on. Whether it makes a difference or not, I don't know. I'll wait 'til TelinArtho hears back from Caterane about the poisoned arrows being carried over, just in case I am wrong... |
| Ravashack11-13-05, 10:56 PM | Your opponent has an horse, so he get's a little less and you a little more. I think I remember this were that numbers. Good enough reason for me. :D |
| Snommelp11-14-05, 01:03 AM | Lissa vs. Raskos is up, but I just remembered that the rewards are wrong. Can someone tell me how a light warhorse effects EL 5 rewards? My other fight should be easier, since I only have to work with one set of tactics. Oldmangray didn't send any, and has no defaults. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-14-05, 01:13 AM | @FFA Fight: Since Book5 worte down his Fort. Save wrong, I'll probably end up redoing the fight from the save on. Whether it makes a difference or not, I don't know. I'll wait 'til TelinArtho hears back from Caterane about the poisoned arrows being carried over, just in case I am wrong... There is no carrying over of buffs. Regardless that some players may have gotten away with it in the past, it's illegal, and should not have been allowed. This was discussed along the same line that some spells can last a lot longer than 24 hrs, and still, you cannot prebuff more than 24 hrs a head of time, and those spells would still need to come out of your 1/3 buffing slot from the last 16 hrs. Example, extended mage armour from a 13th level mage. 26 hour duration. You cannot have cast it 26 hrs ago, and free up spell slots for other spells. It must still count against your current slot of spells. That's a plain factual rule. So, unless you have poison-use, no pre-buffing of poison...ever. -ToK |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-14-05, 01:18 AM | Lissa vs. Raskos is up, but I just remembered that the rewards are wrong. Can someone tell me how a light warhorse effects EL 5 rewards? My other fight should be easier, since I only have to work with one set of tactics. Oldmangray didn't send any, and has no defaults. Lissa wins and receives 1375xp/1467gc (1500xp/1600gc -8% +0%) Raskos loses and receives 542xp/577gc (500xp/533gc -0% +8%) And about your other fight with no default tactics either, you know you don't have to run it. You can just declare the opponent whom did send you tactics the winner. -ToK |
| Snommelp11-14-05, 01:24 AM | Lissa wins and receives 1375xp/1467gc (1500xp/1600gc -8% +0%) Raskos loses and receives 542xp/577gc (500xp/533gc -0% +8%) And about your other fight with no default tactics either, you know you don't have to run it. You can just declare the opponent whom did send you tactics the winner. -ToK Rewards fixed. The other fight will now be "run" according to the above statement by ToK. |
| SauroGrenom11-14-05, 01:28 AM | Lissa vs. Raskos is up, but I just remembered that the rewards are wrong. Can someone tell me how a light warhorse effects EL 5 rewards? My other fight should be easier, since I only have to work with one set of tactics. Oldmangray didn't send any, and has no defaults. Sorry Snommelp, but I think there have been some critical errors that may change the outcome of the fight. First, in round 6 Raskos is invisible, so his opponents ac should be the flatfooted touch ac of 10. Also in this attack Raskos will hit because he gets a +2 bonus to hit due to being invisible and a +3 because his opponent is wearing metal armor whiule he is attacking with shocking grasp and a +2 because he is using a spectral hand to deliver the attack, so the net is a total bab+7=+8 on the attackroll. This should hit. Then in the 7th round Raskos will use another shocking grasp as per my tactics. Also it is not mentioned in the fight, but in the position that Raskos has, he should have cover against attacks from Lissa. Since you don't link the rolls, Its hard to say whether those AC bonuses are factored in. You also didn't tell me what the roles were to attack the Images of Raskos, each has an AC of 13(modified by cover) and needs to be hit by her attacks(admittidly easy with her attack modifier). Lastly, it appears that Raskos runs out of Spell levels too fast, he casts one 2nd level spell in the 2nd round, and one 1st level in the 3rd round that is recalled with the pearl. Then in the 5th he casts another 1st level spell and he should have 1 spell level remaining after that. Also he can recall his mirror image or a 1st level spell with his other pearl as well, so he has some options left to him. |
| Snommelp11-14-05, 01:32 AM | Sorry Snommelp, but I think there have been some critical errors that may change th outcome of the fight. First, in round 5 Raskos is invisable, so his opponents ac should be the flatfooted touch ac. Also in this attack Raskos will hit because he gets a +2 bonus to hit due to being invisable and a +3 because his opponent is wearing metal armor and a +2 because he is using a spectral hand to deliver the attack, so the net is a total bab+7=+8 on the attackroll. This should hit. Then in the 8th round Raskos should try to hit his opponent with a mindthrust or another shocking grasp as per my tactics. You're right; I'll fix it once I finish posting my other fight, which should be in about ten seconds. I'll also edit in the crafting money; I know someone I was running was crafting, I just missed who it was. |
| TheMagister11-14-05, 01:38 AM | Pearls of Power don't require that they be drawn to be activated. They must merely be "possessed" by a character, and the correct command word must be spoken. (Backing this up: DMG pg. 263 - PoP description: 'on command, a pearl of power enables the possessor to...etc.' and DMG pg. 213 - Command Word: 'Command word means that a character speaks the word, and the item activates. A command word is the key to the item's lock...it can be a real word...but then the holder runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. Activating a command word item is a standard action and does not provoke an attack of opportunity.' So, a PoP just needs to be "held" not actually "wielded". Pretty much, the wizard could just reach into a belt pouch and hold the item and speak the command word, and that's it (if they even need to be physically touching the item at all...I'm of the opinion [and THIS is totally my opinion] that the owner of a command word activated djinni bottle only has to have the bottle in his possession to command it). In any case, it doesn't take a full round (move + standard action) to recall a spell with a PoP. In round two, Raskos casts spectral hand. Spectral hands are not invisible, so Lissa would have some idea of where Raskos is (at least a 5ft. area kind of idea). OK. In round 4, Raskos casts a spell and recalls a spell. Too many standard actions. In round 5, the raven wouldn't become visible until it actually attacked. Moving doesn't break the invis. In round 7, you declare a new order, but don't need to change the order. Lissa's readied action goes off just before Raskos' attack. Her initiative stays higher than Raskos' and is set to initiative count 8, just before Raskos. None of this would change the outcome of the fight, I don't think, so I wouldn't think Raskos would want an edit (unless he wants you to drop the shocking grasp currently in effect to cast more mirror images...wasn't that in his tactics?). Was a good fight, though. TM |
| TheMagister11-14-05, 01:41 AM | Sorry Snommelp, but I think there have been some critical errors that may change th outcome of the fight. First, in round 5 Raskos is invisable, so his opponents ac should be the flatfooted touch ac. Also in this attack Raskos will hit because he gets a +2 bonus to hit due to being invisable and a +3 because his opponent is wearing metal armor and a +2 because he is using a spectral hand to deliver the attack, so the net is a total bab+7=+8 on the attackroll. This should hit. Then in the 8th round Raskos should try to hit his opponent with a mindthrust or another shocking grasp as per my tactics. Raskos is invisible...the spectral hand is not. The metal armor thing is right on the money, though, along with the +2 to hit b/c of the spectral hand spell. The total bonus to hit with the spectral hand is +1 (BAB) +2 (hand) +3 (metal armor) = 1d20+6. TM |
| Snommelp11-14-05, 01:49 AM | I've changed the fight to add the Mind Thrusts. Lissa rolled a hard 16 and hard 20 against Will DC 15, so she passed both saves easily, and Will negates. The result is the same. EDIT: I also rolled for the Mirror Images, in case that was contested, although I forgot to put a name for the rolls. There would be 5 of Raskos to choose from, but Lissa's first arrow would have found the right one, and that just happens to be the killing arrow. |
| SauroGrenom11-14-05, 01:54 AM | A couple of things remain. Raskos has cover against Lissa's attacks because of his position. And attacks targeted against his images should not atomatically hit. Each image has an AC of 13+cover so the images may not burn up as fast as they appear to have. |
| Snommelp11-14-05, 02:05 AM | A couple of things remain. Raskos has cover against Lissa's attacks because of her position. And attacks targeted against his images should not atomatically hit. Each image has an AC of 13+cover so the images may not burn up as fast as they appear to have. The first image is still hit, and although the second is not, the third one is hit, leaving Raskos at 9 HP at the end of round 7 and one image. At that point, according to part of the tactics I missed, Raskos should create more images, netting five, and as I already stated, that ends with Lissa hitting the right one right away and dealing her now 6 damage in round 8. Raskos is at 3 in round 8, and... crap. Lissa misses several images in rounds 8 and 9. Round 10... natural 1 on the Will save, 17 damage dealt... and that's not including anything the raven might be doing. I'll edit this in and go from there. EDIT: Results changed. If there are more problems, I may have to continue this next week, because it's after midnight, I'm sick, and I have class at 9 tomor... er, today. |
| MysticMonk200511-14-05, 03:07 AM | <.< FYI Warhorses come trained. |
| Luni11-14-05, 03:24 AM | Balbanes vs Tezca is up. I forgot the link though. Notes: I hate 3d combat... |
| Usurpator11-14-05, 03:39 AM | Balbanes vs Tezca is up. I forgot the link though. Notes: I hate 3d combat... Hi Luni, by first view I have some issues with the way you ran the fight, but will respond later when I have the time to properly look at it and am less tempted to make hasty judgements. |
| Dracazar11-14-05, 05:06 AM | Vivi Ornitier Senior (Dr.Funk) vs Kracknol (SauroGrenom) is up Let me know what do you think, this is my 1st Pitlording. EDIT: Damn! The board doesn't accept my IMG tag, it doesnt' show 'inline' the images I wrote: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php?v=1&a=Vivi,-22,-4,-22,-4,M,&b=Krac,4,-22,4,-22,M,&c=Pad,4,-22,4,-22,S, It seems that the board doesn't show inline images if they have parameters, everything next to the "?" Any hint? I'm sorry to self-up my post but I received no hint about the image issue quoted above... I have to give up? |
| TelinArtho11-14-05, 09:50 AM | @Luni and All poison users: I have received a reply back from cat and the answer is that poison cannot be carried over from fight to fight. Personally, I think this is a bad decision - but that's the way it has been ruled. How is this situation handled then? I start off the fight by poisoning two arrows. I fire one and my opponent drops and I move up to CDG. Do I use 2 doses of poison in this case? Or am I allowed to take the poison back off of the second arrow? /d |
| Sindorin11-14-05, 09:57 AM | I'm sorry to self-up my post but I received no hint about the image issue quoted above... I have to give up? The way the forum code is configured will not let it read anything because of those commas... I'm pretty sure at least. |
| TelinArtho11-14-05, 10:11 AM | @Cat - regarding the comments on Aquin's sheet: First of all, you say that Frenzy doesn't provide a Con bonus: Blood Frenzy: Once per day a sahuagin that takes damage in combat can fly into a frenzy in the following round, clawing and biting madly until either it or its opponent is dead. It gains +2 Constitution and +2 Strength, and takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. A sahuagin cannot end its frenzy voluntarily. That sure looks like a Con bonus to me... Okay - next, about the Multi-weapon fighting. You say that my attacks should have a -6 instead of a -2. MULTIWEAPON FIGHTING [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands. Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by 2 with the primary hand and reduced by 6 with off hands. Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting. Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms. It says that the regular penalties are -6/-10 and that the feat reduces it by 2 on the primary and by 6 on the secondary (making it -4/-4). This is further reduced by using light weapons in my off-hands - meaning it is merely a -2/-2. Also - you forgot to put in Aquin's profession income. |
| Snommelp11-14-05, 10:15 AM | How is this situation handled then? I start off the fight by poisoning two arrows. I fire one and my opponent drops and I move up to CDG. Do I use 2 doses of poison in this case? Or am I allowed to take the poison back off of the second arrow? Others may feel free to correct me, but I would say you used two doses. It would be nigh on impossible to get the poison off of the arrowhead and back into the container without poisoning yourself, and if you leave it on for a week it loses potency (since we know it can't be used in the next fight). It sucks, but it's the same as when someone uses a potion of Protection from Arrows and then gets based and grappled next turn. |
| TelinArtho11-14-05, 10:18 AM | Well, time for me to go off and put people in prison for carrying over poisoned arrows... Did I mention that this decision is not a good one...? |
| NiQil11-14-05, 10:19 AM | @Luni and All poison users: I have received a reply back from cat and the answer is that poison cannot be carried over from fight to fight. Personally, I think this is a bad decision - but that's the way it has been ruled. How is this situation handled then? I start off the fight by poisoning two arrows. I fire one and my opponent drops and I move up to CDG. Do I use 2 doses of poison in this case? Or am I allowed to take the poison back off of the second arrow? /d So, basically poison-users just got severely nerfed. I would PM your question to Cat, Telin....I'm curious because it affects one of my characters as well. Especially since when he gets high enough to have the skills to make poison really effective (Assassin prestige class), the situation you describe is a high probability each fight. @ Cerebus: If yer still maintaining the handy-dandy FAQ, this should be there. @ Cat: I have no idea why you ruled this way, but this needs to be added to the Rules thread somewhere, because this severely limits this aspect of D&D, which I fail to see the logic behind. Poison was never that powerful to begin with here, due to the low DC's on the cheap poisons, and our crafting rules limiting access to the high ones. So if you could elaborate on why you have made this decision, I would love to hear it. |
| TelinArtho11-14-05, 10:28 AM | @NiQil - whenever I have made a question like the above - you can assume I PMed it to Cat for an "Official" answer. Why? Because I don't like surprises. If I had known that poison could not be kept from fight to fight - why would I have specifically used 4 doses in my first fight and only intended on using 2 of them? Anyway, I've also requested that he update the Rules to specifically say that conditions/prebuffs of all kinds cannot be kept from fight to fight. This way the question will be easily resolved in the future when it will come up again (because it will...). It seems to me that aside from Tanglewood - one of your characters is the only other actively using poison (that I've found anyway). So, for now, I am not making violations in the prison thread. However, I will keep it in mind for future events. /d |
| Cerebus1311-14-05, 10:32 AM | @ Cerebus: If yer still maintaining the handy-dandy FAQ, this should be there.Done. Link to its location buried in some other thread - here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7637707&postcount=222) |
| NiQil11-14-05, 10:36 AM | Done. Link to its location buried in some other thread - here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7637707&postcount=222) @ Cat: I wonder if we could maybe get the list that Cerebus is keeping added as a page in the Rules thread...call it Rules FAQ or something...so that issues that come up frequently but have already been answered can be referenced more easily. |
| Snommelp11-14-05, 10:37 AM | Did I mention that this decision is not a good one...? No, I don't believe you did. Let me try to justify Cat's ruling with my own logic. Poison is an expendable item, just like scrolls. Let's say that an EL 3 poisoner is fighting a brand new character. From the build, the new character looks like he could be either an archer or a grappler. The poisoner has Expeditious Retreat (multi-classed mage), so he assumes it will be a fire-fight and writes in his tactics to use a scroll of Protection from Arrows. The poisoner didn't notice the grappler had a potion of Invisibility. In the fight, the poisoner poisons two arrows and uses his scroll of Protection from Arrows. The grappler is invisible, though, and starts a grapple right after that scroll is used. Miraculously, the poisoner escapes the grapple and shoots the grappler, knocking him out with the first dose of poison. He then CdGs with his sword and kills the grappler. It seems to me that you would be upset by the wasted poison, but not by the wasted scroll. In my eyes, it is the exact same thing. What do you see that makes it different? This is not cynicism, this is an honest question. |
| TelinArtho11-14-05, 10:40 AM | The main thing that I see is different is this: Poison doesn't lose potency. Essentially, a potion/scroll/other prebuff - in general has a set duration. If you put poison on a weapon - it will last "until used" - this is vastly different. Yes they are both expendables, but they also have very different durations. /d |
| NiQil11-14-05, 10:56 AM | I'm of the same opinion as Telin here, and I also think that, for the same reason Telin stated, things like Dissolving Weapon should be allowed to pass forward as well, since the power clearly states that it does not go away until the weapon it is on strikes. We are very big on durations here (with the whole 16 hr prebuff thing, among others), and not allowing things that have no duration to pass forward seems to circumvent the RAW. Especially when they have specific descriptions that state they do not go away until their deployment condition is met. As to Snommelp's example....using your same scenerio...what if Protection from Arrows had an unlimited duration? Would you say that it then went away at the next fight? Or how about Magic Fang + Permanency? Should that also not last from fight to fight, since spells and effects are not allowed to carry over from fight to fight? |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-14-05, 10:58 AM | @ Cat: I have no idea why you ruled this way, but this needs to be added to the Rules thread somewhere, because this severely limits this aspect of D&D, which I fail to see the logic behind. Poison was never that powerful to begin with here, due to the low DC's on the cheap poisons, and our crafting rules limiting access to the high ones. So if you could elaborate on why you have made this decision, I would love to hear it. Because the "Poison Use" skill now becomes useless if you do. This doesn't severly nerf poison users in the slightest. Look at it this way..."that's the price you pay for not having the poison use skill." Believe me, as the biggest fan of poison on this site, and it's biggest user, this in no way nerfs anything. It is a simple application of the rules. Now, NiQil, before you spout out "but it doesn't say anything about how long it lasts, or it says until used" doesn't mean it lasts forever. This is a very feasible application of the rules. And don't blame Cat, blame me. Way back last year, this was my idea. Of course it was supported by just about everyone at the time and with good reason. So....if you want poisoned arrows from one fight to the next, get the poison use skill. -ToK |
| Begferdeth11-14-05, 11:02 AM | Woops about the potion thing... I was looking at the scroll level when I wrote that. Ill fix it, you only use 1. And the eagle thing... heh. At the end, I thought you were a straight sorceror and forgot about your druid levels :) Ill change that too. Doesnt affect the fight at all, other than 1 extra potion for you at the end. I have one problem with the fight and one with the amount of money/exp at the end. First, the Potion of Reduce person (250gp) is a CL 5 potion. Therefor, it lasts 50 round not 10. If you want to not use to potion and claim I am casting reduce person myself with my 2 available reduce person spells I am fine with that as they only do last 10 rounds. Second. The award for this fight should be +900/+900 and +300/+300 because the following quote from the Allies 1 thread. |
| NiQil11-14-05, 11:09 AM | Because the "Poison Use" skill now becomes useless if you do. This doesn't severly nerf poison users in the slightest. Look at it this way..."that's the price you pay for not having the poison use skill." Believe me, as the biggest fan of poison on this site, and it's biggest user, this in no way nerfs anything. It is a simple application of the rules. Now, NiQil, before you spout out "but it doesn't say anything about how long it lasts, or it says until used" doesn't mean it lasts forever. This is a very feasible application of the rules. And don't blame Cat, blame me. Way back last year, this was my idea. Of course it was supported by just about everyone at the time and with good reason. So....if you want poisoned arrows from one fight to the next, get the poison use skill. -ToK There is a problem with your logic here, ToK....even the poison use ability will not let you carry over poisons from fight to fight. It will just remove the ability to not poison yourself so that you can prebuff with poisons. If you prebuff with poison on 5 arrows, and only use 2 of them, you still can't carry over the other 3 poisoned arrows to your next fight, with this ruling. All the poison use ability does is take away that 5% chance of poisoning yourself and allows you to prebuff with poison. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-14-05, 11:31 AM | There is a problem with your logic here, ToK....even the poison use ability will not let you carry over poisons from fight to fight. It will just remove the ability to not poison yourself so that you can prebuff with poisons. If you prebuff with poison on 5 arrows, and only use 2 of them, you still can't carry over the other 3 poisoned arrows to your next fight, with this ruling. All the poison use ability does is take away that 5% chance of poisoning yourself and allows you to prebuff with poison. Which is why it's allowed. No risk of poisoning yourself, no loss of poison. You can store them safely when poisoned. Without the skill, you still risk poisoning yourself. -ToK |
| NiQil11-14-05, 11:43 AM | Which is why it's allowed. No risk of poisoning yourself, no loss of poison. You can store them safely when poisoned. Without the skill, you still risk poisoning yourself. -ToK So if I am understanding you correctly, we are saying that the poison use ability will allow you to carry poisoned items forward from fight to fight, due to no possibility of poisoning yourself.....and that the logic behind not allowing it go from fight to fight without it is that there is always a chance you could poison yourself without the proper training (i.e. poison use skill)? I'll buy that. Not sure if I necessarily agree with it, but I can at least understand the logic behind it. Thanks for the clarification. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-14-05, 11:56 AM | So if I am understanding you correctly, we are saying that the poison use ability will allow you to carry poisoned items forward from fight to fight, due to no possibility of poisoning yourself.....and that the logic behind not allowing it go from fight to fight without it is that there is always a chance you could poison yourself without the proper training (i.e. poison use skill)? I'll buy that. Not sure if I necessarily agree with it, but I can at least understand the logic behind it. Thanks for the clarification. Yup, that's what i'm saying. :D -ToK |
| TelinArtho11-14-05, 12:00 PM | Just so this is crystal clear - to what extent do you need "poison use" in order to prebuff in this fashion: Poison use ability (blackguard, assassin) Immune to poison Item that grants immunity to poison (Periapt of Proof Against Poison) Prebuff to negate the effects of poison (Extended Delay Poison at CL8) |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-14-05, 12:08 PM | Just so this is crystal clear - to what extent do you need "poison use" in order to prebuff in this fashion: Poison use ability (blackguard, assassin) Immune to poison Item that grants immunity to poison (Periapt of Proof Against Poison) Prebuff to negate the effects of poison (Extended Delay Poison at CL8) delay poison would not do it, not sure about the periapt, but it's possible (you know, it's possible you take it off when sleepwalking, hehe), but the first two would be a definate yes. -ToK |
| Huan11-14-05, 01:28 PM | Bare-bones of Mer-Man vs Hagrid II (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7751318&postcount=643) is up. Short Version: Fatality. |
| Pittbull11-14-05, 02:16 PM | Bare-bones of Mer-Man vs Hagrid II (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7751318&postcount=643) is up. Short Version: Fatality. Sorry Huan, you forgot to read my pre-buffs. The composite longbow is charged with DW, but he dealt only 11 points of damage (2d6+4), you missed the 6d6 acid damage. This might be enough to kill Battra in the 2nd round. My tactic said, that Hagrid should drink a potion of invisibility after Battra has been killed. If he's allready invisible, drop the stone and shoot his mount. Then draw and drink a potion of invisibility and pick up the powerstone again. Now, there's another point you need to decide. I really don't know why I didn't write it in the tactic (if been pretty busy in my job ). But when Mer-Man is invisible, it might be clever to manifest steadfest peception from the stone in round four. It's up to you to decide because I only wrote: - If there is a need to improvise, just adjust my tactic, Hagrid is greatly equiped, you can use everything. Since my main tactic was to hit Mer-Man with the ego whip, I hope Hagrid gets a chance to use it. Just roll for the additional damage and then decide how Hagrid acts, I'll accept everything and won't argue. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-14-05, 03:09 PM | @Telin: Look at it this way: it used to be that poison was restricted to only assassins and blackguards. At least you can actually use them. |
| Usurpator11-14-05, 03:13 PM | Hi Luni, Thanks for running the fight, I wouldn't wish that last 45 rounds on any Pitlord... I do I failed to get across my prefered tactics, which was to snipe. After Tezca moves only 10 ft. he spots Balbanes and vice versa. The basis of my tactics was sniping. Climbing atop a rock has zero use for sniping when Balbanes has already spotted me. I did specifically say: Move to appropriate sniping position. Preferred sniping position is atop one of the rocks in the arena. [...] Other sniping posiitions are perfectly acceptable as well, though. and If discovered, break LOS and find a new sniping position. The rock was not an appropriate sniping position at that time, and I was discovered. Instead of breaking LOS and finding an appropriate sniping position I was just playing a sitting duck atop that rock. It is both kind of stupid to do that and against my tactics. Especially since I never should have moved to that rock in the first place. In round 13 you make me move up the wall, but somehow Tezca doesn't charge + pounce, while this was specifically stated in my tactics. I knew very well that Balbanes would most probably have mirror images up and that I needed a full attack to give me a decent change to achieve a grapple. As in tactics: - If I get the option to charge and pounce or execute a full attack from hiding when in animal form, do so. [...] - Try to grapple him (use regular grapples, not the improved grab, it won’t work) with the full attack and use remaining attacks to attack him in the grapple (at -4). Those are the two really major issues I saw. Finishing Cid vs. Harvester has priority over nitpicking further over this fight. |
| Usurpator11-14-05, 05:21 PM | Look here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7753278&postcount=644) if you want to see a rogue succesfully sneak attacking The Harvester..... |
| Usurpator11-14-05, 06:27 PM | A remark about Mer-Man vs. Hagrid: You only do double damage on a dive when you are diving yourself, if your mount is diving, it does double damage, but you yourself do not. This has been argued about extensively some 8 weeks ago with Draconis Regina's battle. Also, I think only modifiers to the base weapon damage are doubled on a lance charge/crit/diving charge, not extra damage dice such as from psionic weapon, but I don't know that for sure. In any case, Hagrid II doesn't die from that diving charge. |
| TheMagister11-14-05, 06:54 PM | In round 13 you make me move up the wall, but somehow Tezca doesn't charge + pounce, while this was specifically stated in my tactics. I knew very well that Balbanes would most probably have mirror images up and that I needed a full attack to give me a decent change to achieve a grapple. I'm pretty sure that you can't use the charge while climbing a wall, even if you have a climb speed, and even if you use the accelerated climb option (accept -5 penalty to your climb check, if successful, move at x2 your climb speed up to your base land speed) because climbing counts as difficult terrain. Now, there's the Accelerated Movement caveat in the Balance skill description, but you don't make balance checks to climb a wall. I have no particular favorite in that fight, I just don't think that it can be done. Not even giant spiders have a climb speed that matches their base land speed, and that's on their web. Wiser heads than mine might disagree, though. TM |
| TheMagister11-14-05, 07:03 PM | @Cat - regarding the comments on Aquin's sheet: Also - you forgot to put in Aquin's profession income. Also, Aquin should get a will save to halve the damage from the inflict serious wounds touch spell. TM |
| Huan11-14-05, 07:10 PM | Sorry Huan, you forgot to read my pre-buffs. The composite longbow is charged with DW, but he dealt only 11 points of damage (2d6+4), you missed the 6d6 acid damage. This might be enough to kill Battra in the 2nd round Hm, I thought it was decided ammo was not allowed to be pre-buffed with DW here in COCO. If I am wrong, please correct me, and I will rerun as that is very important. About the diving thing: Yeah, I recalled a former fight with this dispute (it was not the Draconis one, it was before then), and via, Tok, this was found: SRD === A creature that flies can make dive attacks. A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage. === The rule allowing dive attacks with piercing or slashing weapons comes from here: Rules of the Game 07/06/2004 All About Movement (Part Five) === If a flyer makes a diving charge of at least 30 feet (6 squares) and also loses 10 feet of altitude or more, it can attack only with a claw or with a piercing or slashing weapon. These attacks, however, deal double damage. === http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a This does not appear to apply to the rider, just the flyer, so it won't work in combination with Spirited Charge So, as its working out, unless Hagrid beats him with Ego Whip in time, he will drink his potion of fly, fly up and can still dive with the same devastating blow |
| TheMagister11-14-05, 07:33 PM | Hm, I thought it was decided ammo was not allowed to be pre-buffed with DW here in COCO. If I am wrong, please correct me, and I will rerun as that is very important. Would it matter if it was the longbow itself that was charged with DW and not an arrow? (I thought you couldn't prebuff with DW at all...) TM |
| nightbanegod11-14-05, 08:44 PM | running team fight as i speak... results will be posted in new post in battles thread since thier character sheets were...... lengthy....... |
| Iced11-14-05, 08:51 PM | Daeren vs the ghasts has been posted |
| nightbanegod11-14-05, 09:00 PM | hey anyone... can you sing and take other standard actions in the same round? thought you could only do one or the either... bardic inspire curage while firing arrows.... |
| NiQil11-14-05, 09:03 PM | hey anyone... can you sing and take other standard actions in the same round? thought you could only do one or the either... bardic inspire curage while firing arrows.... Read the description of bardic music again. It takes a standard action to START singing......once you are singing, it is continuous until you stop. Otherwise, what would be the point? Edit: Here is the appropriate text (emphasis mine): Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). Just as for casting a spell with a verbal component, a deaf bard has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use bardic music. If he fails, the attempt still counts against his daily limit. Also, this action does not require concentration (putting this here because I know this is my fight, and I know what you are referring to). Inspire Courage (Su): A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies (including himself ), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 8th level, and every six bard levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability. For an example of a song that *does require concentration, see the Suggestion entry in the SRD. A song will always say that it needs concentration...otherwise, it does not. |
| Iced11-14-05, 09:05 PM | you can use bardic music while attacking but not while casting spells |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-14-05, 09:08 PM | you can use bardic music while attacking but not while casting spells You can cast silent spells. ;) -ToK |
| TelinArtho11-14-05, 09:14 PM | not bardic silent spells though - since they can't be silenced... :) |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-14-05, 09:33 PM | not bardic silent spells though - since they can't be silenced... :) Really? I couldn't find where it says that. All it says is they all have verbal components. That doesn't mean you can't attach the silent spell metamagick feat to them. Unless, i missed it somewhere that it says that. -ToK |
| TheMagister11-14-05, 09:45 PM | Kinda moot: Under Bardic Music: ...Even while using bardic music that doesn't require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). Note that it says 'cannot cast spells', not, 'cannot cast spells with a verbal component'. Pretty much a blanket restriction. Also, what Telin is referring to is this: Silent Spell [Metamagic] blah blah Special: Bard spells cannot be enhanced by this metamagic feat. Sorry. TM |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-14-05, 09:57 PM | Kinda moot: Under Bardic Music: ...Even while using bardic music that doesn't require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). Note that it says 'cannot cast spells', not, 'cannot cast spells with a verbal component'. Pretty much a blanket restriction. Also, what Telin is referring to is this: Silent Spell [Metamagic] blah blah Special: Bard spells cannot be enhanced by this metamagic feat. Sorry. TM Well, there ya go. Learn something new everyday. But then again, that might have something to do with the fact that i've never even read the bard description....ever. I glanced a bit of it tonight, so that was a learning experience..woooo! -ToK |
| Usurpator11-15-05, 02:50 AM | I'm pretty sure that you can't use the charge while climbing a wall, even if you have a climb speed, and even if you use the accelerated climb option (accept -5 penalty to your climb check, if successful, move at x2 your climb speed up to your base land speed) because climbing counts as difficult terrain. Now, there's the Accelerated Movement caveat in the Balance skill description, but you don't make balance checks to climb a wall. I have no particular favorite in that fight, I just don't think that it can be done. Not even giant spiders have a climb speed that matches their base land speed, and that's on their web. Wiser heads than mine might disagree, though. TM You don't need a Climb speed that matches your base land speed to charge. Are flyers that have a base fly speed below their base land speed unable to make a charge? I can imagine that swimming prevents you from making charges because it counts as difficult terrain or reduces your speed. But nor for creatures that have a Swim speed. Sharks should be able to charge underwater. Sahuagin should be able to charge underwater. I also think creatures with a climbing speed should be afforded all regular options. I can imagine mountain goats charging across hilly slopes and monkeys charging across trees. And I certainly can also imagine a leopard (or housecat) running up a tree or steep rock. Something the we humans are not able to do, because we don't have a climb speed. Charge is simple: "Your movement cannot be hindered, either by difficult terrain or obstacles." Tezca's movement is not hindered in any way, thus he should be able to charge. I see no reason to deny to Climbing creatures what is available to Flyers and Swimmers. Burrowers obviously have to deal with obstacles. It says in the description that creatures with a Climb speed can automatically take 10 on Climn check. I always imagine regular creatures always taking 10 on their Walk checks. And that the floor has a Walk DC of 0, meaning even clumsy creatures should be able to walk normally without making checks. |
| Pittbull11-15-05, 02:52 AM | Hm, I thought it was decided ammo was not allowed to be pre-buffed with DW here in COCO. If I am wrong, please correct me, and I will rerun as that is very important. Sorry, you are wrong. We decided that ammo must not be prebuffed with DW, but you can prebuff the bow, as I did. If the shot is misses, DW is lost. |
| Pittbull11-15-05, 02:58 AM | Kinda moot: Under Bardic Music: ...Even while using bardic music that doesn't require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). Note that it says 'cannot cast spells', not, 'cannot cast spells with a verbal component'. Pretty much a blanket restriction. Also, what Telin is referring to is this: Silent Spell [Metamagic] blah blah Special: Bard spells cannot be enhanced by this metamagic feat. Sorry. TM Don't forget: An assassin casts spells just as a bard does. Does this mean, that there are not silenced spells for assasins too? |
| TheMagister11-15-05, 04:42 AM | Does this mean, that there are not silenced spells for assasins too? I don't think so. There's a difference between "casts spells as a bard" (meaning, he should be considered a bard when he casts) and "casts spells as a bard does" (meaning that he casts using the same game mechanic a bard does). What game mechanic does a bard use to cast spells? A bard is a spontaneous caster. I'd think that that is all they're trying to say. It would be silly for a stealth-specialized caster to not be able to cast silently. I know...the RAW is indeed silly sometimes. TM |
| Huan11-15-05, 09:07 AM | Sorry, you are wrong. We decided that ammo must not be prebuffed with DW, but you can prebuff the bow, as I did. If the shot is misses, DW is lost. Hmm, that seems like an indirect way of accomplishing the same thing, but ok. I will rerun this afternoon, thank you for your patience. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 10:02 AM | I don't think so. There's a difference between "casts spells as a bard" (meaning, he should be considered a bard when he casts) and "casts spells as a bard does" (meaning that he casts using the same game mechanic a bard does). What game mechanic does a bard use to cast spells? A bard is a spontaneous caster. I'd think that that is all they're trying to say. It would be silly for a stealth-specialized caster to not be able to cast silently. I know...the RAW is indeed silly sometimes. TM Actually, by the RAW, Pittbull is exactly right...assassins also can't cast silent spells like bards, because of that line in their spell ability description. That line is also what allows assassins to be able to cast in light armor with no arcane spell failure like bards. Now, by the RAI, I would agree with you....but by the RAW, no, assassins can't cast silent spells. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 10:06 AM | Ho-hum...another week, more of my fights late... |
| TelinArtho11-15-05, 10:06 AM | @Gonbow - produce flame is against the target's touch AC - not their regular AC. Several of Bastion's misses should therefore be hits. /d |
| One_Winged_Angel11-15-05, 10:40 AM | Geez... Well, I think Azriel and Auburn still need a re-run. Since Luni decided my tactics weren't important enough to follow correctly, I guess I'm going to retire Wraith. He's a good character, but I can't get him to work right and the one time I might, my tactics get ignored. I'm likely going to replace him later this week. |
| Macbrea11-15-05, 10:43 AM | @Gonbow- It's an easy fix. He would have hit me on round 7 before I got a chance to drink the second Cure light wound potion. Pretty much ending the fight. Hit points for that round would look like: Round 7 = 10 - 8 - 1d6+3 = unconscious end of fight |
| TelinArtho11-15-05, 10:44 AM | Well, its Tuesday and there's still a few fights outstanding: Level 3 Gorak Razorfang (Macbrea) vs Bastion (Tellish of Ket): Gonbow -- COMPLETE Tan (Book5) vs Wraith (Owa) vs Hennan (Snommelp) vs Tanglewood (TelinArtho): Luni [All vs All] -- Waiting for revisions Level 4 Silas (NiQil) & Delaria (TelinArtho) vs Ashhûr (Luni) & Greefe (Ribking): Nightbanegod [Team] -- In process Caspian (NiQil) vs Barthleby (Pittbull): Locutus TelinArtho -- COMPLETE Level 7 Vandelar the Red (SoulLord) vs 1 Vampire Fighter 5: King Uther [Monster] --COMPLETE @NiQil/Pittbull - I'll pick up your fight if you both send me your tactics. I would pick up Vandelar's fight, but I don't have the stats of the Vampire here (I've only got the SRD). I know Nightbanegod's fight is progressing (I've watched the die rolls in Invisible Castle). I haven't seen any notice of change from Luni though since the resolution of the poison issue. |
| Snommelp11-15-05, 10:50 AM | I haven't seen any notice of change from Luni though since the resolution of the poison issue. Well, Luni might have vanished, but apparently Pitlords is siding with you - Tanglewood was given the win for the free for all, according to the power ratings. |
| Iced11-15-05, 10:54 AM | I don't think so. There's a difference between "casts spells as a bard" (meaning, he should be considered a bard when he casts) and "casts spells as a bard does" (meaning that he casts using the same game mechanic a bard does). What game mechanic does a bard use to cast spells? A bard is a spontaneous caster. I'd think that that is all they're trying to say. It would be silly for a stealth-specialized caster to not be able to cast silently. I know...the RAW is indeed silly sometimes. TM It means they can wear light armor and still cast spells. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 11:21 AM | Well, its Tuesday and there's still a few fights outstanding: @NiQil/Pittbull - I'll pick up your fight if you both send me your tactics. I would pick up Vandelar's fight, but I don't have the stats of the Vampire here (I've only got the SRD). I know Nightbanegod's fight is progressing (I've watched the die rolls in Invisible Castle). I haven't seen any notice of change from Luni though since the resolution of the poison issue. Sent |
| King Uther11-15-05, 11:21 AM | Someone had my MM until last night, which is why the vampire fight isn't up. It will be up between 2PM and 5PM Central. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-15-05, 11:28 AM | @Gonbow - produce flame is against the target's touch AC - not their regular AC. Several of Bastion's misses should therefore be hits. /d OH yeah...I PM'd him very shortly after he posted it, but has since disappeared. -ToK |
| TelinArtho11-15-05, 11:46 AM | Well, Luni might have vanished, but apparently Pitlords is siding with you - Tanglewood was given the win for the free for all, according to the power ratings. It does appear that way - but with Tan making his first save - I think the fight can really go either way. If she hasn't updated the fight by the time noon rolls around for me tomorrow - I'll update Tanglewood according to the currently posted rewards. I'm still hoping Luni gets the chance to make the changes though... |
| Usurpator11-15-05, 11:52 AM | I'm still hoping Luni gets the chance to make the changes though... The same for me here for Tezca's fight against Balbanes that Luni ran. But since Luni diverted from my stated tactics on the very first action of the battle, it would practically mean an entire rerun. Not a job any Pitlord would relish I think. I do think Luni's Shakari got a bit short-changed as well in her fight against Yoriko. Shakari just standing there for 30 rounds being shot at because of very literal tactics interpretations and no improvisation.... not funny.... and surely not inspiring for a Pitlord. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-15-05, 12:12 PM | I do think Luni's Shakari got a bit short-changed as well in her fight against Yoriko. Shakari just standing there for 30 rounds being shot at because of very literal tactics interpretations and no improvisation.... not funny.... and surely not inspiring for a Pitlord. I will wholeheartedly concur with Usurpator. When i read that in early puked, and would hope that someday "my number doesn't come up" to be run like that. -ToK |
| NiQil11-15-05, 12:17 PM | So how bad do you think it would be of me to pitch a fit and make OWA run the Kronos/Maven fight according to my tactics? LMAO I was really looking forward to slapping Maven around a bit LOL. |
| Cerebus1311-15-05, 12:18 PM | The same for me here for Tezca's fight against Balbanes that Luni ran. But since Luni diverted from my stated tactics on the very first action of the battle, it would practically mean an entire rerun. Not a job any Pitlord would relish I think. I do think Luni's Shakari got a bit short-changed as well in her fight against Yoriko. Shakari just standing there for 30 rounds being shot at because of very literal tactics interpretations and no improvisation.... not funny.... and surely not inspiring for a Pitlord.So Pitlords get poked at when we do improvise tactics not to a player's liking, and when we don't improvise tactics to a player's liking. Cute. Shakari's AC with using her mount for cover, combined with a wand of cure light wounds, made her easily able to sit and take infinite salvos of crossbow bolts. At some point her opponent would have run out of ammo and been forced to engage Shakari in melee....which ended up happening anyway after the Entangle ran out. The end result of delaying was that Shakari didn't get to make use of the +4 strength from Bull's Strength, which would have done nothing but delay her death in the grapple for a few more rounds because her initial charge attack (the main point of her tactics) could not have possibly succeeded due to being negated by a grapple that was unavoidable +4 strength or not. I improvise tactics in fights as little as possible and if I can find a reason to avoid it, I DO. If Pitlords step in and create a strategy for a character that helps them win we get yelled at for playing favorites...but apparently we get yelled at if we don't do that as well. Awesome. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-15-05, 12:33 PM | So how bad do you think it would be of me to pitch a fit and make OWA run the Kronos/Maven fight according to my tactics? LMAO I was really looking forward to slapping Maven around a bit LOL. He could have ran it according to your tactics...but my tactics also have to be observed. LOL So either way you don't get to slap me around. Of course, if my tactics were improvised, well, that's another story. LOL j/k @Cerebus: It's not that i was being critical, it's just that she should have at least been given the chance to fight back. Too literal interpretations can be just as dangerous as too generous improvisation. Personally, i use the 3 attempts rule. If the player's tactics are self-lethal, they will have to try it out a few times before a change of plan is in order. I've done this a few times, and i haven't recieved any complaints. I would say 30 rounds of standing there doing nothing, a player would realize their tactics are ineffective and you would be responsible for it's improvisation.' The reason some pitlords get heck for improvising is because they improvise on an existing strategy that probably would have worked (or was never attempted), and in the pitlords mind wasn't good. That is a big no-no. It's gotta be attempted before changed. Changes have to minor as well...imho at least. Changing a tactic to include use of resources and deviousness not though of on the players part to totally dominate their opponent is of course out of the window. But returning fire hardly constitutes that. At least that's my opinion. -ToK ps. again, not being critical, just opinionated. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 12:39 PM | He could have ran it according to your tactics...but my tactics also have to be observed. LOL So either way you don't get to slap me around. Of course, if my tactics were improvised, well, that's another story. LOL j/k Methinks I am gonna hafta go on a quest with Kronos just to be able to lay the smackdown on Maven LMAO. |
| Cerebus1311-15-05, 12:45 PM | @Cerebus: It's not that i was being critical, it's just that she should have at least been given the chance to fight back. Too literal interpretations can be just as dangerous as too generous improvisation. Personally, i use the 3 attempts rule. If the player's tactics are self-lethal, they will have to try it out a few times before a change of plan is in order. I've done this a few times, and i haven't recieved any complaints. I would say 30 rounds of standing there doing nothing, a player would realize their tactics are ineffective and you would be responsible for it's improvisation.' The reason some pitlords get heck for improvising is because they improvise on an existing strategy that probably would have worked (or was never attempted), and in the pitlords mind wasn't good. That is a big no-no. It's gotta be attempted before changed. Changes have to minor as well...imho at least. Changing a tactic to include use of resources and deviousness not though of on the players part to totally dominate their opponent is of course out of the window. But returning fire hardly constitutes that. At least that's my opinion. -ToK ps. again, not being critical, just opinionated.In this specific situation attempts to return fire would have been nullified by Deflect Arrows. Shakari has a very good, +9, attack with her bow but unless she had the feat Rapid Shot or some other method of gaining more than one attack per round she can't beat Deflect Arrows. Examining the rest of her inventory of spells/items she has Summon Swarm (a level 2 spell) available, but she only had 2 spell levels remaining and had indicated in tactics to use Shillelagh before melee was engaged. Also, Yoriko could have simply improvised to drink a quick potion of Protection from <align> and the Swarm spell would have been wasted. I was painted into a corner where basically all of Shakari's methods of attack save melee were easily avoided by Yoriko. I could have saved myself 20+ rounds of rolls by having Shakari charge in early if Yoriko did not attempt to escape, but looking at her defenses Shakari could easily take crossbow damage and wait for Yoriko to run out of ammo and come out of the Entangle. Having Shakari basically sit and be shot at for a bunch of rounds may seem unfair or foolish, but she was never in danger of dying at all and I did not have to change or improvise either player's tactics. |
| Luni11-15-05, 12:45 PM | So Pitlords get poked at when we do improvise tactics not to a player's liking, and when we don't improvise tactics to a player's liking. Cute. Shakari's AC with using her mount for cover, combined with a wand of cure light wounds, made her easily able to sit and take infinite salvos of crossbow bolts. At some point her opponent would have run out of ammo and been forced to engage Shakari in melee....which ended up happening anyway after the Entangle ran out. The end result of delaying was that Shakari didn't get to make use of the +4 strength from Bull's Strength, which would have done nothing but delay her death in the grapple for a few more rounds because her initial charge attack (the main point of her tactics) could not have possibly succeeded due to being negated by a grapple that was unavoidable +4 strength or not. I improvise tactics in fights as little as possible and if I can find a reason to avoid it, I DO. If Pitlords step in and create a strategy for a character that helps them win we get yelled at for playing favorites...but apparently we get yelled at if we don't do that as well. Awesome. @Cerebus: Shakari's main tactic was the pinning attempt on Yoriko. I don't know if +2 would of made a difference. The charge was well, not much else to do there. Maybe get lucky. :) Hmm. Bull's Strength would of allowed me to get an extra pin attempt in, as one wound would of been negated. @TelinArtho, OWA, Book5, Snommelp: I've been busy. I'll be able to undate the fight after noon. I can just use the sheets I posted, if you want ot update yours. I'll just send out a PM with the changes, if any. @Usurpator: I'm not entirely certain if you can charge up pillars. The rules read literally, say that you need both hands to climb, and therefore no claw attacks. (Which I think is silly as Leopards don't have hands, and therefore can't climb.) Is there any rules for attacks from climbing creatures anywhere? |
| Snommelp11-15-05, 12:50 PM | @TelinArtho, OWA, Book5, Snommelp: I've been busy. I'll be able to undate the fight after noon. I can just use the sheets I posted, if you want ot update yours. I'll just send out a PM with the changes, if any. I have time. Might want to tell Pitlords about the result though, whatever happens; I get the feeling that if Tangle doesn't get enough XP to level (like with the current results), Telin isn't going to want her fighting in EL 4. |
| Cerebus1311-15-05, 12:50 PM | @Cerebus: Shakari's main tactic was the pinning attempt on Yoriko. I don't know if +2 would of made a difference. The charge was well, not much else to do there. Maybe get lucky. :)This comes from the fight: S handle animal: auto-success for Z Y atk: 16+5 vs 14 touch AC hits S Y grapple: 14+13 vs 7+8 success vs S Y damage: 5+3 vs S S grapple: 8+8 vs 17+13 fails vs Y The bolded line is the opposed grapple check Yoriko makes against Shakari. Yoriko's grapple total was 27 versus Shakari's 15...so unfortunately, even if Shakari would have had Bull's Strength the modified grapple total of 17 would not have been enough to stop the grapple from starting. Edit to include pinning attempts: (from previous round) 16 vs. 30 OR 18 vs. 30 with +4 Strength Y grapple: 4+12 14+12 vs 7+8 7+8 hits hits vs S Y damage: 3+3 3+3 vs S S grapple: 10+8 vs 17+13 fails vs Y F atk: 5+4 6+4 20-1(crit:12, no) vs 17 AC miss miss hit vs Y F damage: 3+1 vs Y Z atk: 15+8 vs 17 AC hit vs Y Z damage: 3+7 vs Y 18 vs. 30 OR 20 vs. 30 with +4 Strength Both of Shakari's pinning attempts would have failed with or without Bull's Strength. |
| Book511-15-05, 12:56 PM | @Luni - if there is another error on my sheet I doubt I would see it this time either. |
| Usurpator11-15-05, 12:56 PM | @Usurpator: I'm not entirely certain if you can charge up pillars. The rules read literally, say that you need both hands to climb, and therefore no claw attacks. (Which I think is silly as Leopards don't have hands, and therefore can't climb.) Is there any rules for attacks from climbing creatures anywhere? You need both feet to walk, but that doesn't preclude a monk from making a circle kick, or does it? Flying dragons can make with attacks even though they need their wings to fly. If what you are saying is true, Apes will be unable to attack anyone up in the trees. And even better, snakes cannot climb at all.... Obviously, the hands description in the climb skill is meant for humanoid creatures, preferably PC races. Also: Burrow: A creature with a burrow speed can tunnel through dirt, but not through rock unless the descriptive text says otherwise. Creatures cannot charge or run while burrowing. Most burrowing creatures do not leave behind tunnels other creatures can use (either because the material they tunnel through fills in behind them or because they do not actually dislocate any material when burrowing); see the individual creature descriptions for details. Climb: A creature with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. The creature must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC of more than 0, but it always can choose to take 10 even if rushed or threatened while climbing. The creature climbs at the given speed while climbing. If it chooses an accelerated climb it moves at double the given climb speed (or its base land speed, whichever is lower) and makes a single Climb check at a –5 penalty. Creatures cannot run while climbing. A creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus on their attacks against a climbing creature. Since charge and running is forbidden while burrowing, but only running is mentioned under the climb description, I must assume they meant for climbing creatures to be able charge..... EDIT: you can find this in the SRD under Monster, then Types, Special Abilities and Subtypes, heading Movement Modes. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-15-05, 12:58 PM | So how bad do you think it would be of me to pitch a fit and make OWA run the Kronos/Maven fight according to my tactics? LMAO I was really looking forward to slapping Maven around a bit LOL. Like Tellish said, he wanted to avoid humiliation (his tactics) and you wanted to slap around an old person (your tactics). The way I see it, I was able to follow both your tactics to the best extent of my capacity. :P @Luni: Hmmmm? Busy? Good! It shows hope that people have lives outside the COCO! @Cerebus: In a general sense, yes, Pitlords get nagged at no matter what. Most of the time, we are not blamed if we improvise due to tactics breaking down (Gladiator's fault for not writing good tactics) and most of the time we are supported in this. Pitlording is and always will be an unforgiving job. Remember: You have the right to refuse a re-run. I've done it before when people were being stupid. |
| TelinArtho11-15-05, 01:03 PM | @OWA - if you had already cast Chill Touch and then followed up with Hold Person - the Chill touch would have gone away: Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell. Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates. |
| Cerebus1311-15-05, 01:05 PM | @Cerebus: In a general sense, yes, Pitlords get nagged at no matter what. Most of the time, we are not blamed if we improvise due to tactics breaking down (Gladiator's fault for not writing good tactics) and most of the time we are supported in this. Pitlording is and always will be an unforgiving job. Remember: You have the right to refuse a re-run. I've done it before when people were being stupid.In this case a re-run wouldn't change the end result, and would only shuffle around the amount of consumable items used by either party. I would rather look foolish and not have to improvise written tactics to achieve basically the same end result, with 17 or so fewer bolts used by Yoriko. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 01:09 PM | Like Tellish said, he wanted to avoid humiliation (his tactics) and you wanted to slap around an old person (your tactics). The way I see it, I was able to follow both your tactics to the best extent of my capacity. :P No worries...just felt the need to poke a little fun at ya. I never expected anything to be done...just figured I would put that in my tactics to give everyone a chuckle. |
| Usurpator11-15-05, 01:15 PM | So Pitlords get poked at when we do improvise tactics not to a player's liking, and when we don't improvise tactics to a player's liking. Cute. Pitlording can indeed sometimes be a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' kind of job. Fortunately, I only got one serious complaint in the 14 fights I ran here. From OWA not less. :P And sometimes Pitlords can do something beautiful. I clearly remember my very first fight here. I made a copy of a character I played in RttToEE and submitted a really lengthy set of tactics. I saw nearly all tactics appear in the fight, almost as I imagined it. It was very satisfying. Thanks again Maraxus! (My character did lose though): see here (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7008810&postcount=255) I usually complain when: 1. The spirit of my tactics was not followed AND the letter of my tactics was not followed. 2. There are serious rules errors. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 01:17 PM | I know Nightbanegod's fight is progressing (I've watched the die rolls in Invisible Castle). I haven't seen any notice of change from Luni though since the resolution of the poison issue. Yanno....I just looked at those die rolls...and based on the tactics that have already been posted, I can already see there are probably going to be things that will need to be corrected. But I'll wait for the fight to actually get up...maybe I'm wrong. |
| Pittbull11-15-05, 01:22 PM | @TelinArtho: Thanks a lot for picking the fight. Tactics have been sent to you via PM. |
| Macbrea11-15-05, 01:24 PM | It should be noted that you cannot use deflect arrows if your firing a crossbow two handed in that round. Unless you happen to also have third hand free to bat away arrows. It requires one free hand. Any round your reloading or firing a crossbow you have both hands occupied. |
| Snommelp11-15-05, 01:26 PM | It should be noted that you cannot use deflect arrows if your firing a crossbow two handed in that round. Unless you happen to also have third hand free to bat away arrows. It requires one free hand. Any round your reloading or firing a crossbow you have both hands occupied. It's a free action to place your hand on a weapon (to fire or reload, for example) and a free action to remove your hand (to be ready to deflect arrows). It's assumed that characters with Deflect Arrows do this, because nobody wants to write "take a free action at the end of each turn to remove my hand from the crossbow and another free action at the beginning of each turn to replace the hand on the crossbow" every set of tactics. |
| TelinArtho11-15-05, 01:43 PM | @NiQil and Pittbull - both tactics received. Running the fight now. @Pitlords: I have taken this fight: Caspian (NiQil) vs Barthleby (Pittbull): Locutus TelinArtho |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-15-05, 01:58 PM | In this specific situation attempts to return fire would have been nullified by Deflect Arrows. Shakari has a very good, +9, attack with her bow but unless she had the feat Rapid Shot or some other method of gaining more than one attack per round she can't beat Deflect Arrows. Examining the rest of her inventory of spells/items she has Summon Swarm (a level 2 spell) available, but she only had 2 spell levels remaining and had indicated in tactics to use Shillelagh before melee was engaged. Also, Yoriko could have simply improvised to drink a quick potion of Protection from <align> and the Swarm spell would have been wasted. I was painted into a corner where basically all of Shakari's methods of attack save melee were easily avoided by Yoriko. I could have saved myself 20+ rounds of rolls by having Shakari charge in early if Yoriko did not attempt to escape, but looking at her defenses Shakari could easily take crossbow damage and wait for Yoriko to run out of ammo and come out of the Entangle. Having Shakari basically sit and be shot at for a bunch of rounds may seem unfair or foolish, but she was never in danger of dying at all and I did not have to change or improvise either player's tactics. Well, i'll be honest, i didn't read either's tactics, nor look at their character sheets. But if that corner was painted as i believe you when you said that it was, i would have just thrown in the towel. In fact, i threw in the towel for gladiators multiple times. Brilf threw in the towel vs the Bralani and Vampire, and my most recent fight, i had Fjord also surrender. His tactics were completely ineffective (which i did try to carry out despite that), and was facing two superior flying casters. I would have had to make too large of an improvisation to make the challenge. And you are right, VERY large improvisations is not your job. Me in your shoes: I would have just thrown in the towel, rather that standing like target practice...but either way, in hindsight, after quickly looking at the fight, i don't think you were wrong in doing what you did...it just "looks fishy" is all. At least throwing in the towel would have looked more honourable i guess. -ToK |
| Gonbow11-15-05, 02:01 PM | Indeed, I forgot that Produce Flame was a touch attack. My bad! Revising the fight, which means Gorak is knocked out all the sooner. Wow, produce flame is a nasty first-level spell. Sheets are here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7757236&postcount=647). And the Battle itself is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7757247&postcount=648). |
| TelinArtho11-15-05, 02:13 PM | Caspian vs Barthleby (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7760591) Let me know if there's anything wrong. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 02:19 PM | Caspian vs Barthleby (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7760591) Let me know if there's anything wrong. Meh...that went pretty much as I expected. Just have to take solace in the fact that all the expendables Barthleby used almost equaled the amount he won LOL. |
| Pittbull11-15-05, 02:26 PM | Yes, Barthleby is an expensive character. Barthleby bows to Caspian. It was an honor to compete with you. @Telin: Thanks again for running the fight. |
| TelinArtho11-15-05, 02:30 PM | No problem - really. I was slated to have an EXTREMELY busy day today. However, I found out that 95% of the work was already done, so it took me 5 minutes instead of 8 hours... go figure... /d |
| Pittbull11-15-05, 02:58 PM | @Huan: I checked the rolls for Mer-Man vs Hagrid. You rolled only 4d6 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=188668) for DW, but it's 6d6. |
| King Uther11-15-05, 03:02 PM | Vandelar vs the Vamp (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7734746&postcount=626) is up. Almost an upset. |
| KerlanRayne11-15-05, 03:23 PM | Hmm, that seems like an indirect way of accomplishing the same thing, but ok. I will rerun this afternoon, thank you for your patience.If it worked on arrows, you could pre buff multiple arrows easily. Putting it on a bow means it only works once unless you have multiple bows. KerlanRayne |
| KerlanRayne11-15-05, 03:25 PM | It's a free action to place your hand on a weapon (to fire or reload, for example) and a free action to remove your hand (to be ready to deflect arrows). It's assumed that characters with Deflect Arrows do this, because nobody wants to write "take a free action at the end of each turn to remove my hand from the crossbow and another free action at the beginning of each turn to replace the hand on the crossbow" every set of tactics.This is true, but it should be possible to ready a bow attack for whenever your opponent is firing his crossbow. That way both hands are occupied when you attack. KerlanRayne |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-15-05, 03:32 PM | Vandelar vs the Vamp (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7734746&postcount=626) is up. Almost an upset. Actually the vampire is not dead. As soon as it reaches zero, it merely turns into gaseous form, at which time we would sink into the ground and make his escape vowing revenge against Vandelar. :D -ToK |
| King Uther11-15-05, 03:39 PM | Not this vampire. He didn't gain that special ability because he has a distinct fear of gas. |
| King Uther11-15-05, 03:48 PM | I was told a diving charge while mounted only affects the mount and not the rider. This instance would definitely affect the Merman/Hagrid fight, as Merman would not take nearly as much damage. You see, the rider is not diving himself, and therefore does not gain the same leverage a flyer would. |
| Vathelokai11-15-05, 04:30 PM | Geez... Well, I think Azriel and Auburn still need a re-run. So....Any word from Book5? He said yesterday he would be working on it. |
| Book511-15-05, 04:35 PM | So....Any word from Book5? He said yesterday he would be working on it. READ YOUR GUILD! I posted there like 4 hours ago that I was on it and consider it onned (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7740208#post7740208) I think it went much better this time!! Excitment wise anyway. Like 10 rounds hangig on two hits from either side. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-15-05, 04:37 PM | @OWA - if you had already cast Chill Touch and then followed up with Hold Person - the Chill touch would have gone away: Ok, then reverse the order. Really, that is a situation where the pitlord should just switch a bit. Is that really so hard? @Book5: Hate to be a jerk, but since when did all ravens get magical weapons without telling me? Reference to round 26. And also, why didn't I use my powerstone of expansion? Just curious. |
| Book511-15-05, 04:38 PM | @Vath: That was a bit longer ago than yesterday. No idea where he is now. Look at that timing! Hey glad you agree with that whole reversing the order thing, I had Auburn double tap Azriel with the scorching ray so that the scroll schuffling thing would work and then just had her hold the missles until the chill touch was dissipated. |
| TelinArtho11-15-05, 04:59 PM | Ok, then reverse the order. Really, that is a situation where the pitlord should just switch a bit. Is that really so hard? Actually it is. Here's the sequence from your tactics: Ok, when one or more dropps, that will be my time to act. Move in and try to cast color spray on the one(s) remaining. I WANT TO WAIT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE BEFORE DOING THIS! I am hoping they will wear themselves thin. If they fail the saves, then I have a shot. Cast Chill touch from the scroll and have Livia deliver to one. I draw a scroll and cast hold on the other. When that happens, I'll walk up and CDG with a scythe. Cast Color Spray If it works, Cast Chill Touch and touch stunned opponents Cast Hold Person The color spray worked - so moving onto Chill Touch would seem logical. Therefore - you would wait until the Chill Touch is fully discharged before moving onto the Hold Person (at least that's the way I would've pitlorded it). |
| Snommelp11-15-05, 05:03 PM | This is true, but it should be possible to ready a bow attack for whenever your opponent is firing his crossbow. That way both hands are occupied when you attack. KerlanRayne Well, yeah, but you have to specify readied actions in your tactics, and the argument that I was addressing was shooting on your turn at someone who has Deflect Arrows but had used both hands on their turn. Apples and oranges. Or more accurately apples and different apples that are only slightly similar to the first kind of apple. |
| Luni11-15-05, 05:09 PM | Actually it is. Here's the sequence from your tactics: Cast Color Spray If it works, Cast Chill Touch and touch stunned opponents Cast Hold Person The color spray worked - so moving onto Chill Touch would seem logical. Therefore - you would wait until the Chill Touch is fully discharged before moving onto the Hold Person (at least that's the way I would've pitlorded it). Or in my case, I was going to do CHill Touch, delay so cat gets a 2nd attack, then cast Hold Person losing 1 charge. [Same amount of rounds though, and assuming both attacks hit] |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-15-05, 05:24 PM | I was told a diving charge while mounted only affects the mount and not the rider. This instance would definitely affect the Merman/Hagrid fight, as Merman would not take nearly as much damage. You see, the rider is not diving himself, and therefore does not gain the same leverage a flyer would. Ugh...i can't believe this. I've scolded Cat for this MANY times...no, not just once...no not even twice...but at least THREE times. @Cat: You KNOW it doesn't work like that. Why do you insist on doing it? Diving works for the diver, not anyone mounted. Mounted people use the spirited charge feat. I just took a peek at your tactics. Are you trying to insinuate you can charge while tumbling...and even while MOUNTED no less? Man, i can see your mind being elsewhere right now, but holy cow...even the bongmaster wouldn't come up with crazy stuff like that. You can't tumble as part of your charge for umpty-millions of reasons. Lemme just name two...REDUCED MOVEMENT, SPECIAL FULL ROUND ACTION! Problem TWO: You and your mount CANNOT TUMBLE TOGETHER. Ok, before people jump in and saw there isn't any rule on this, i think you need your heads examined and a lobotomy. If there are RotG examples on this and it IS possible, they need the lobotomy. Heck, maybe i need one two while were at it. lol :D You can't collect the Diving bonus of double dmg if you aren't the flyer...plain and simple. Wow...wow..is all i gotta say. WOW! -ToK |
| Book511-15-05, 05:30 PM | Well, yeah, but you have to specify readied actions in your tactics, and the argument that I was addressing was shooting on your turn at someone who has Deflect Arrows but had used both hands on their turn. Apples and oranges. Or more accurately apples and different apples that are only slightly similar to the first kind of apple. Personally I think that the pitlord can be expected to do some creative reading. I mean I've run an archer vs a deflecter and I would have taken advantage of something like that. I probably would have gotten yelled at firstfor not letting the deflect arrows feat work in the first place but I would have then used the ready to hit with it - even if is was not explicitly stated in tactics that was what was intended. As long as they said "shoot him" I'll try and do it the best that I can. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 05:31 PM | I hope everyone realizes that the whole of ToK's rant was done just so he could say wow at the end a lot LMAO :D |
| Usurpator11-15-05, 05:33 PM | Ugh...i can't believe this. I've scolded Cat for this MANY times...no, not just once...no not even twice...but at least THREE times. Apparently it's easy to forget it or miss it. Comparable to my 7th post on page 10 of this thread. |
| Book511-15-05, 05:33 PM | wow |
| Snommelp11-15-05, 05:35 PM | Personally I think that the pitlord can be expected to do some creative reading. I mean I've run an archer vs a deflecter and I would have taken advantage of something like that. I probably would have gotten yelled at firstfor not letting the deflect arrows feat work in the first place but I would have then used the ready to hit with it - even if is was not explicitly stated in tactics that was what was intended. As long as they said "shoot him" I'll try and do it the best that I can. From the Rules of Gladius:A ready action must be specifically defined. There must be a concrete trigger and a concrete action.I read this as meaning that the player must tell the pitlord explicitly when and how to use a readied action, or else the pitlord should not use one. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 05:44 PM | From the Rules of Gladius:I read this as meaning that the player must tell the pitlord explicitly when and how to use a readied action, or else the pitlord should not use one. Actually, what I take that to mean is that you can't say something like "I'll ready to cast for when he moves." Cast what? In other words....you can't be general about the ready action...you hafta specify what you want to do in the ready action. I've seen several fights where pitlords use ready actions at their discretion....most commonly with archers who are trying to snipe or something like that. As an aside, Snommelp, you may want to add this whole charging rule thing from ToK's rant to the WAR little-known rule list, since it apparantly has come up quite a bit. |
| Snommelp11-15-05, 05:50 PM | Actually, what I take that to mean is that you can't say something like "I'll ready to cast for when he moves." Cast what? In other words....you can't be general about the ready action...you hafta specify what you want to do in the ready action. I've seen several fights where pitlords use ready actions at their discretion....most commonly with archers who are trying to snipe or something like that.Fair enough.As an aside, Snommelp, you may want to add this whole charging rule thing from ToK's rant to the WAR little-known rule list, since it apparantly has come up quite a bit.I get off work soon; I'll add it when I get home. |
| Usurpator11-15-05, 05:51 PM | From the Rules of Gladius:I read this as meaning that the player must tell the pitlord explicitly when and how to use a readied action, or else the pitlord should not use one. I use ready actions plenty when in the spirit of the player's written tactics, even if it's not specified exactly. If you have to specify all possible conditions and triggers, the Pitlord would get a 10 page unwieldy document. Most ready actions are pretty basic, such as readying to disrupt spellcasting or ready something upon LOS. For example, if one gladiator is going to search or chase another gladiator, I usually ready an action to shoot or cast upon LOS after a single move, to prevent the other gladiator from getting the drop on the chaser. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-15-05, 05:55 PM | I use ready actions plenty when in the spirit of the player's written tactics, even if it's not specified exactly. If you have to specify all possible conditions and triggers, the Pitlord would get a 10 page unwieldy document. Most ready actions are pretty basic, such as readying to disrupt spellcasting or ready something upon LOS. For example, if one gladiator is going to search or chase another gladiator, I usually ready an action to shoot or cast upon LOS after a single move, to prevent the other gladiator from getting the drop on the chaser. Ditto. I agree 100%. I do the same. Other, more complicated ready-actions i wouldn't do, but something as simple as the above i would do. -ToK |
| Snommelp11-15-05, 06:29 PM | Ditto. I agree 100%. I do the same. Other, more complicated ready-actions i wouldn't do, but something as simple as the above i would do. Point taken. You have to be fair, though. If you improvise and let the ranged fighter ready to shoot the monk when the monk has both hands occupied, the monk also needs to be improvised in order to react to this change. Only one readied shot should ever happen, if that. |
| Luni11-15-05, 06:33 PM | Ok. FFA fight has been edited. Results are the same, expendables are different. @OWA: Being a gnome, and having to travel across the entire arena with single moves will break the 10 round rule. And with everyone using ranged weapons, you could never catch more than 1 with Color Spray. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 06:43 PM | Ok. FFA fight has been edited. Results are the same, expendables are different. @OWA: Being a gnome, and having to travel across the entire arena with single moves will break the 10 round rule. And with everyone using ranged weapons, you could never catch more than 1 with Color Spray. @ Luni: You may want to refresh yourself on the delay rules. It sounds like you are intending to apply a 10 round disqualification where none is required. (If I am misinterpreting what you are saying, please say so.) There is a non-cumulative 10-round limit to delaying tactics. Every ten rounds, you have to interact meaningfully with your opponent. If you do not, the pitlord is free to introduce some unfortunate circumstance (a random spectator yelling out your exact position, for example, or people throwing beer bottles at you) that makes you vulnerable. Note that this limit only applies if one of the characters wants to engage the other, but the other one is hiding, invisible, or out of reach. If both characters are doing their best to fight the other, no penalty should be introduced. Similarly, if a wizard is flying over the head of a melee fighter and peppering him with Magic Missiles while he is unable to do anything, no penalty should be given, since there is meaningful interaction between the gladiators. There is no disqualification for delays, as you can see. Even in FFA's, where the limit has been reduced to 5 rounds, the same rules apply. |
| Luni11-15-05, 06:57 PM | @ Luni: You may want to refresh yourself on the delay rules. It sounds like you are intending to apply a 10 round disqualification where none is required. (If I am misinterpreting what you are saying, please say so.) There is no disqualification for delays, as you can see. Even in FFA's, where the limit has been reduced to 5 rounds, the same rules apply. The limit is 10 rounds for FFA's too. As for what I did, I didn't DQ him, I just removed his invis spell, but that was probably unnescessary, as he attacked the following round. |
| Snommelp11-15-05, 07:01 PM | The limit is 10 rounds for FFA's too. As for what I did, I didn't DQ him, I just removed his invis spell, but that was probably unnescessary, as he attacked the following round. I prefer giving the spectators special goggles of See Invisibility, and then having someone shout "He's right there! Come on, he's not even doing anything, just go up and hit him!" But your way works too. |
| Book511-15-05, 07:05 PM | There is no disqualification for delays, as you can see. Even in FFA's, where the limit has been reduced to 5 rounds, the same rules apply. read wraiths tactics - they include harikari. Man, you were right Luni. I was 50 bucks and one rock richer before all that effort. Thats why Tan does stand up - to pay for his "drinking habit" I propably should have stuck... with the spears or pulled the chain on em.. rrmm that double dagger thing wasnt really working with those, shall we call them, "standard penalties!" Probably should have brought my dog. eh. but boy.. whew WOW ole Hennan there sure is a hail of arrows!! One of these days he might work up to a Hell of Arrows!! :rimshot: |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-15-05, 07:05 PM | Point taken. You have to be fair, though. If you improvise and let the ranged fighter ready to shoot the monk when the monk has both hands occupied, the monk also needs to be improvised in order to react to this change. Only one readied shot should ever happen, if that. Of course, but like i said, i wouldn't improvise anything as complicated. -ToK |
| Book511-15-05, 07:09 PM | I prefer giving the spectators special goggles of See Invisibility, and then having someone shout "He's right there! Come on, he's not even doing anything, just go up and hit him!" But your way works too. I dont know about ya'll but my spectators got full spectrum viewpoint. Astral, etherial, invisible, gaseous, whatever. Highlighted with magic glow screens and stuff. But if I had to penalty for delay I would do something quite a bit more .. "rude" - harkening to the classics of course - the blood must flow - > release the bees! .... or something. :P |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-15-05, 07:13 PM | I dont know about ya'll but my spectators got full spectrum viewpoint. Astral, etherial, invisible, gaseous, whatever. Highlighted with magic glow screens and stuff. But if I had to penalty for delay I would do something quite a bit more .. "rude" - harkening to the classics of course - the blood must flow - > release the bees! .... or something. :P I do the same. Spectators see anything and everything. In fact, back in the day, that's how fights were described from the view-point of a spectator. I would also include a large-screened, closed-circuit crystal wall, for those teleporting out to buff. lol -ToK |
| One_Winged_Angel11-15-05, 07:18 PM | @Book5: Hate to be a jerk, but since when did all ravens get magical weapons without telling me? Reference to round 26. And also, why didn't I use my powerstone of expansion? Just curious. *Taps foot* Wraith is retiring. If I have to break the 10 round limit every single time since I can't sneak like a normal person towards my opponent, he's pointless. |
| Snommelp11-15-05, 07:20 PM | Wraith is retiring. If I have to break the 10 round limit every single time since I can't sneak like a normal person towards my opponent, he's pointless.I'm behind you with this one, Angel. Moving toward your opponent with the intent of attacking in my opinion wouldn't break the 10 round rule. The point's moot for our fight, since Wraith attacked that round anyway, but for future fights, I agree with you. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-15-05, 07:31 PM | I'm behind you with this one, Angel. Moving toward your opponent with the intent of attacking in my opinion wouldn't break the 10 round rule. The point's moot for our fight, since Wraith attacked that round anyway, but for future fights, I agree with you. I wouldn't retire him. If you are actively seeking out your opponent, i don't see why you'd get counted out either. But you didn't, so it's moot. -ToK |
| Mind Rogue11-15-05, 07:32 PM | Actually, moving towards your foe with the intention of attacking as soon as you get within reach doesn't count on the 10 round rule. Buffing, hiding, or just being evasive do. So if you're in a doughnut style arena and the wizard throws up a wide wall of stone and forces you to go the long around, you are still trying to be active, so you are safe, even if you are a slowed halfling who takes 3 minutes to get to where the wizard is. |
| Book511-15-05, 07:33 PM | Ok, then reverse the order. Really, that is a situation where the pitlord should just switch a bit. Is that really so hard? @Book5: Hate to be a jerk, but since when did all ravens get magical weapons without telling me? Reference to round 26. And also, why didn't I use my powerstone of expansion? Just curious. :banghead: sorry :banghead: sorry :banghead: sorry :banghead: sorry still hanging in balance of one or two hit then, it'll be done, no worries |
| One_Winged_Angel11-15-05, 07:57 PM | I wouldn't retire him. If you are actively seeking out your opponent, i don't see why you'd get counted out either. But you didn't, so it's moot. -ToK I got counted out because I surrendered. Naw, he's retiring. Never did figure out how to use arcane casters in the arena anyway. I've been thinking it's about time to start a fighter resurrection. Look for a new build from me, better thought out this time I hope. @Book5: I hate details too. |
| Book511-15-05, 08:01 PM | @OWA - are you sure you wanna use the expansion.. (i mean since I've already gone so far and in forgetting it and all. Azriel's hits would be unchanged.. all your gonna get out of it is damage. - damage is not your problem - hitting is. Not just that but the ac loss will get Azriel hit two times I can think of off the top of my head. * waits * patiently * nearby * :rolleyes: |
| nightbanegod11-15-05, 08:39 PM | :lightbulb WOOPS :banghead: totally forgot to copy and paste fight till i realized i still had notepad open and minimized on my desktop... so here. nitpick, criticize, complain, and order me to fix THIS WHIFF CONTEST (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7755009&postcount=646) team fight between silas and delaria vs greefe and ashhur |
| One_Winged_Angel11-15-05, 08:45 PM | @OWA - are you sure you wanna use the expansion.. (i mean since I've already gone so far and in forgetting it and all. Azriel's hits would be unchanged.. all your gonna get out of it is damage. - damage is not your problem - hitting is. Not just that but the ac loss will get Azriel hit two times I can think of off the top of my head. * waits * patiently * nearby * :rolleyes: Methinks no at this point. She burns enough gp per fight as is, and I'm planning on buying a few more stones. But don't forget the DR. It might help. |
| Huan11-15-05, 08:56 PM | Re-run of Mer-Man vs Hagrid II (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7751318&postcount=643) done. No change in fight outcome (sorry, Pittbull), but let me sum up what was done differently: -I allowed Hagrid usage of Steadfast Perception, but not before downing the mount (I feel that is too much of a stretch for something not explicity written in) -Hagrid got off 1 augmented Ego Whip, but Mer-Man saved out -Mer-Man performed the dive correctly -No one noted that I was [accidently] robbing Hagrid of his Profession money. I added that in. |
| Book511-15-05, 09:03 PM | Methinks no at this point. She burns enough gp per fight as is, and I'm planning on buying a few more stones. But don't forget the DR. It might help. Oh it does ... oh it does .. gimmie like another ... ten-to-twenty --- edit --- and up and .. like a flipping pancack, - 28 rounds this time. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 09:18 PM | :lightbulb WOOPS :banghead: totally forgot to copy and paste fight till i realized i still had notepad open and minimized on my desktop... so here. nitpick, criticize, complain, and order me to fix THIS WHIFF CONTEST (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7755009&postcount=646) team fight between silas and delaria vs greefe and ashhur Ok.....I really don't know where to begin. I can barely follow the fight because of all the round jumping. There is no indication of what any of the rolls are, so I have no way of knowing what is accurate and what isn't. Just putting a link to Invisible Castle doesn't help me when I can't load that site from my home computer. First off, can you please tell me why Ashhur is attacking me, instead of attempting to sunder my weapons, as was stated in their tactics? Or why, in Round 20, I was not drinking cure potions, as stated in my tactics? Or why I never started singing Inspire Courage? Or why I was fighting Ashhur and not Greefe, as stated in my tactics? Or why Delaria never tried to get any spells off after the Hold Person, despite what her tactics stated? There are many many problems here...and with it being already time for new pairings....I almost think it would be best to hold this over and run it again with tomorrow's pairings. |
| TelinArtho11-15-05, 09:26 PM | Or why Delaria never tried to get any spells off after the Hold Person, despite what her tactics stated? Actually, this one is my own fault - as I already looked at it. Here's the relevant portion from my own tactics: After all of the spell levels are cast, start summoning from the scroll for Large Monstrous Centipedes. If someone is able to close on me during a casting, draw my flail and start fighting defensively. If not, summon up to three of them and then draw the crossbow and start firing; if I get into melee, the flail should be used. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 09:34 PM | Actually, this one is my own fault - as I already looked at it. Here's the relevant portion from my own tactics: Except, to me, that reads "if I am casting summoning spells, and someone gets into melee, start fighting defensively." Since it is mentioned right after you start talking about summoning spells, and since the following sentence says that if no one is close to get out your summons. But, even taking that out of the equation.....there are still numerous problems. I can't even tell who moved where. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-15-05, 09:34 PM | Oh it does ... oh it does .. gimmie like another ... ten-to-twenty --- edit --- and up and .. like a flipping pancack, - 28 rounds this time. Whee! Scythe Crit! And...wow. Is that...51 damage... :mymy: See! See! This is why I am better with warrior builds! Umm...arguments, Vath? That looked...kinda painful on your side... Personally, I think we've argued the heck out of this fight. And I want to get Azriel readied for tomorrow. |
| Book511-15-05, 09:38 PM | Whee! Scythe Crit! And...wow. Is that...51 damage... :mymy: :nonono: 13 rolled 26 total - I didnt roll Ravens damage cause your minumum on a crit is 19 max 42 w/out buffs. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-15-05, 09:45 PM | -Mer-Man performed the dive correctly. I still see the 72 dmg. Are you doubling merman's damage because of the dive? Cuz that is wrong if it is. Merman is mounted on Battra, only battra gets double dmg on dives, not Merman. -ToK |
| One_Winged_Angel11-15-05, 09:46 PM | :nonono: 13 rolled 26 total - I didnt roll Ravens damage cause your minumum on a crit is 19 max 42 w/out buffs. And the really big hard thing below us wanted to be Auburn's friend and comfort her. Nice, big hug. :D |
| nightbanegod11-15-05, 09:47 PM | Ok.....I really don't know where to begin. I can barely follow the fight because of all the round jumping. There is no indication of what any of the rolls are, so I have no way of knowing what is accurate and what isn't. Just putting a link to Invisible Castle doesn't help me when I can't load that site from my home computer. will go and add those now First off, can you please tell me why Ashhur is attacking me, instead of attempting to sunder my weapons, as was stated in their tactics? will swap that right now Or why, in Round 20, I was not drinking cure potions, as stated in my tactics? in round 20 you died from ashhurs axe or ... rather were dropped into negatives and when the con buff from rage ended you died regardless of stablization... you were at -9 i believe Or why I never started singing Inspire Courage? Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). Just as for casting a spell with a verbal component, a deaf bard has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use bardic music. If he fails, the attempt still counts against his daily limit. and As soon as that action is triggered, follow it up by drinking my potion and drawing my bow. Then I want to start singing Inspire Courage, which will give bonuses to everyone on my team. From here, I want to rain arrows down on both opponents, while maneuvering myself towards Greefe. If I see Ashhur but not Greefe, go looking for Greefe until I find him. got the impression that you wanted to actually fight in this fight either by shooting arrows or attacking with sword and concentrating on the inspire curage would have prevented you from doing so since it is a standard action each round regardless of wether or not your using your hands for other things. and greefe was already there. as stated in your tactics to attack him. if you would like i could go back and add you singing for a round and let the 5 round duration continue however by the time your actions would have preciptated you starting to sing inspire curage... greefe had already based delaria, ashhur had dispatched both elementals and began closing on you, and there were no summons to be had at that time so the only ones you would have buffed would have been yourself and delaria ... and looking at the rolls.. with the additional +1 to hit and damage... none of the rolls results would have changed to success Or why I was fighting Ashhur and not Greefe, as stated in my tactics? fair question, i can go back to change that, however keeping the same rolls just changing the target to whom they are directed and knowing that you would give the flanking bonus with your sword to delaria as well and then ashhur would close and flank as well with greefe im reviewing the rolls to see if the fight wouldnt have been over sooner depending on the successes ... will look into this Or why Delaria never tried to get any spells off after the Hold Person, despite what her tactics stated? After all of the spell levels are cast, start summoning from the scroll for Large Monstrous Centipedes. If someone is able to close on me during a casting, draw my flail and start fighting defensively. If not, summon up to three of them and then draw the crossbow and start firing; if I get into melee, the flail should be used should i elaborate? . |
| NiQil11-15-05, 09:54 PM | will go and add those now will swap that right now in round 20 you died from ashhurs axe or ... rather were dropped into negatives and when the con buff from rage ended you died regardless of stablization... you were at -9 i believe and got the impression that you wanted to actually fight in this fight either by shooting arrows or attacking with sword and concentrating on the inspire curage would have prevented you from doing so since it is a standard action each round regardless of wether or not your using your hands for other things. and greefe was already there. as stated in your tactics to attack him. if you would like i could go back and add you singing for a round and let the 5 round duration continue however by the time your actions would have preciptated you starting to sing inspire curage... greefe had already based delaria, ashhur had dispatched both elementals and began closing on you, and there were no summons to be had at that time so the only ones you would have buffed would have been yourself and delaria ... and looking at the rolls.. with the additional +1 to hit and damage... none of the rolls results would have changed to success fair question, i can go back to change that, however keeping the same rolls just changing the target to whom they are directed and knowing that you would give the flanking bonus with your sword to delaria as well and then ashhur would close and flank as well with greefe im reviewing the rolls to see if the fight wouldnt have been over sooner depending on the successes ... will look into this should i elaborate? . As was stated the first time you asked the question, Inspire Courage does not require concentration to maintain. Look it up for yourself. The bardic songs say they require it when they do...see the song Suggestion as an example. In round 20, I was still alive, and acted before I died. There should have been a potion in there. Considering there should have been swings to sunder in there, that is going to change everything, since I may or may not have a longsword and/or bow at some point. Since I should have also been attacking Greefe until he died, it is also possible that he could go down before or after Delaria does. But again, I can't tell what was right and what was wrong, since there are no rolls listed, no movement, and several rounds skipped. |
| Ribking11-15-05, 10:08 PM | So....do I not update my sheet until further notice? A win will put me into the next league, so does this mean I miss out on next week pairings? |
| One_Winged_Angel11-15-05, 10:11 PM | So....do I not update my sheet until further notice? A win will put me into the next league, so does this mean I miss out on next week pairings? Don't edit it just yet. You've got until tomorrow for pairings, however. |
| nightbanegod11-15-05, 10:13 PM | As was stated the first time you asked the question, Inspire Courage does not require concentration to maintain. Look it up for yourself. The bardic songs say they require it when they do...see the song Suggestion as an example. i had asked this question before? i apologize, however i do not recall asking about this, and if you look yourself... the "song" suggestion is not even infact a song... cleary all the other "songs" are indeed songs... however suggestion is an action you may perform DURING the act of maintaining concentration on facinate... and if you are continuing to sing to maintain inspire curage since its duration is listed as " as long as you continue to sing and for 5 rounds thereafter" ... implys concentration to maintain In round 20, I was still alive, and acted before I died. There should have been a potion in there. and to Round 19 Greefe charge attacks silas and hits for 7 damage ashhur swings his axe, and misses the semi raged yet still agile silas. silas seeing hes in trouble attempts to swing on ashhur some more to finish the job he started, yet continues the never ending theme of lets not hit anybody Silas 3/41 at (-18,2) AC 18 Raging ends end of Rnd 25 Delaria -2/21 at (-22,4) SoF 4/20 AC 22 Breeze -/9 (-1,22) elementals die at 0 Burnt -/9 (0,21) elementals die at 0 Ashhur 24/49 at (-18,3) AC 24 Greefe 32/36 at (-19,2) AC 18 Round 20 Greefe 5' steps around silas some more and swings his TWA yet misses silas Ashhur taking the cue also 5' steps and is now flanking silas, and swings his axe, connecting for 12 damage, dropping silas... whos rage shortly runs out and dies from CON returning to normal... regardless of stablization. in round 19 you are hit for 7 damage ... bringing your HP from 10 to 3 while you are raging... you had previously been at 2 HP and in your tactics it says If at any time I fall to 5 hp or fewer, rage for the extra HP. you were raging already and you infact were at 3 HP going in to round 20 and they had their actions before yours where ashhur connected for 12 damage and dropped you before you could act Considering there should have been swings to sunder in there, that is going to change everything, since I may or may not have a longsword and/or bow at some point. indeed Since I should have also been attacking Greefe until he died, it is also possible that he could go down before or after Delaria does. as i previously said, i will look over the rolls tonight and check to see if this changes anything... if infact your weapon is sundered and it would be LONG before you got into any serious action with greefe or ashhur since the first attempt would have been on round 5 when ashhur got close enough to try. But again, I can't tell what was right and what was wrong, since there are no rolls listed, no movement, and several rounds skipped. infact NO ROUNDS WERE SKIPPED!!!!!!!!!!!! there was NO MOVEMENT during the rounds that were truncated for convenience. and as far as the rolls not being listed... they ARE however dated and saved on a verifiable source being invisible castle which is why i strictly use it... therefore they are all referenceable at a later date and as i said i will add these in tonight assuming i have the time... i am to be leaving my house in a few incidentally. and i updated the information when it became relevant.... like your force screen wore off... at round 11 and when your SoF wore off as well at round 12 then truncated the rest of the rounds since nothing changed with the exception of HP totals which mattered in the end and was thus added and or subtracted in due course. |
| NiQil11-15-05, 10:22 PM | i had asked this question before? i apologize, however i do not recall asking about this, and if you look yourself... the "song" suggestion is not even infact a song... cleary all the other "songs" are indeed songs... however suggestion is an action you may perform DURING the act of maintaining concentration on facinate... and if you are continuing to sing to maintain inspire curage since its duration is listed as " as long as you continue to sing and for 5 rounds thereafter" ... implys concentration to maintain and to in round 19 you are hit for 7 damage ... bringing your HP from 10 to 3 while you are raging... you had previously been at 2 HP and in your tactics it says you were raging already and you infact were at 3 HP going in to round 20 and they had their actions before yours where ashhur connected for 12 damage and dropped you before you could act indeed as i previously said, i will look over the rolls tonight and check to see if this changes anything... if infact your weapon is sundered and it would be LONG before you got into any serious action with greefe or ashhur since the first attempt would have been on round 5 when ashhur got close enough to try. infact NO ROUNDS WERE SKIPPED!!!!!!!!!!!! there was NO MOVEMENT during the rounds that were truncated for convenience. and as far as the rolls not being listed... they ARE however dated and saved on a verifiable source being invisible castle which is why i strictly use it... therefore they are all referenceable at a later date and as i said i will add these in tonight assuming i have the time... i am to be leaving my house in a few incidentally. and i updated the information when it became relevant.... like your force screen wore off... at round 11 and when your SoF wore off as well at round 12 then truncated the rest of the rounds since nothing changed with the exception of HP totals which mattered in the end and was thus added and or subtracted in due course. Implying concentration is not requiring concentration. Inspire Courage does not require concentration. All bardic songs that require concentration say so. If they do not say it, they do not require it. Please reread the entire bardic music section, or feel free to ask others about this. Many already responded with the same response I am giving when you posted about this last night. Scroll back a page or three in this thread and you will see for yourself. Or take a look at Silas first couple of fights, when it was used in a similar fashion. Raging does not prevent you from drinking a potion. Nowhere in the rage description does it say this, or anything close to this, to my knowledge. Please provide a source for this. By rounds skipped, I meant that they were not carried out in the fight, but rather truncated. Edit: For your edification, here is where you asked last night, and there was a short discussion that followed regarding spellcasting for bards. Both myself and Iced replied to this post in the affirmative, that bards may attack while singing Inspire Courage, but cannot cast spells (which has no relavence here). I beliave it is on page 11 of this thread, if you wish to see the whole thing. |
| Book511-15-05, 10:28 PM | And the really big hard thing below us wanted to be Auburn's friend and comfort her. Nice, big hug. :D I am going to remember my Hardness 10 15hp/ft call when I pitlord fights that have area damage :woot: |
| nightbanegod11-15-05, 10:31 PM | Implying concentration is not requiring concentration. Inspire Courage does not require concentration. All bardic songs that require concentration say so. If they do not say it, they do not require it. Please reread the entire bardic music section, or feel free to ask others about this. Many already responded with the same response I am giving when you posted about this last night. Scroll back a page or three in this thread and you will see for yourself. Or take a look at Silas first couple of fights, when it was used in a similar fashion. reading now :embarrass Raging does not prevent you from drinking a potion. Nowhere in the rage description does it say this, or anything close to this, to my knowledge. Please provide a source for this. i didnt say you couldnt draw a potion.. i edited what i said actually... take a look at what you quoted.. you didnt even have a chance to take an action in round 20, thier actions were before yours and ashhur connected for 12 damage....if you would like i could have you draw a potion in round 18 which would have been after you raged and increased your HP from 2 to 10 however his AoO for you drawing the potion... and for that matter drinking the potion would have already been rolled as his next attacks against you which even from the 10 HP you were at would have dropped you since his next attack did 12 damage... ignoring the extra 7 damage greefe did in round 19 By rounds skipped, I meant that they were not carried out in the fight, but rather truncated. it was simply for convenience vs constantly typing the same things over again... there was no change of locations in any of the rounds i truncated and all attacks in said rounds were misses... there were LOTS of missed attacks... however the ones that hit i noted next to each characters name.... greefe was duking it out with delaria and you were duking it out with ashhur...if you want to tag team greefe and just let ashhur swing at your back with the flanking +2 to his already +10 attack rolls then i will go and edit it... however he doesnt have to connect too many times before either you or delaria would drop... |
| One_Winged_Angel11-15-05, 10:48 PM | So, everyone think it's safe for me to update Azriel? I want her ready for tomorrow, so... |
| Book511-15-05, 11:05 PM | So, everyone think it's safe for me to update Azriel? I want her ready for tomorrow, so... Auburn is not updated...? |
| One_Winged_Angel11-15-05, 11:40 PM | Auburn is not updated...? Nope. I'm going to go ahead and edit since it's getting later in the week and I want Azriel paired. Plus it's hard arguing a scythe crit and 25 falling damage. |
| Huan11-15-05, 11:59 PM | I still see the 72 dmg. Are you doubling merman's damage because of the dive? Cuz that is wrong if it is. Merman is mounted on Battra, only battra gets double dmg on dives, not Merman. -ToK Look again, friend. Battra is fallen at the moment of the dive (downed in round 5). Mer-Man drank a Potion of Fly, instead. As the flyer, he made a downward charge of at least 10 feet in descent and 30 ft of distance with a slashing weapon. Therefore, he gets to dbl his dmg. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-16-05, 12:13 AM | Look again, friend. Battra is fallen at the moment of the dive (downed in round 5). Mer-Man drank a Potion of Fly, instead. As the flyer, he made a downward charge of at least 10 feet in descent and 30 ft of distance with a slashing weapon. Therefore, he gets to dbl his dmg. Doh...i really need to clean this glasses once in a while. lol -ToK |
| Luni11-16-05, 01:45 AM | I've edited in the Balbanes vs Tezca fight, and the results have changed. Tezca charges up the pillar, and manages to get claw/claw/bite on the mirror Images. Then Balbanes runs away. Therefore, Balbanes can't kill Tezca before he lands, and the fatigued Tezca spends 3 rounds trying to start a grapple, and succeeds to rip Balbanes apart. If anyone finds rules on climbing, let me know.... |
| King Uther11-16-05, 02:26 AM | Well, I did have some things to say but since I previously won I didn't want to push it. 1. Summon Swarm has a blindsense of 20ft, therefore if it is cast 25ft away from me in sight of Tezca, it would move to engage him. That was my plan. Fly as high as possible and unleash the plague. I am confident this would have worked if done properly. 2. There is absolutely no way he can evade me for 30 rounds, being as I can fly and if I negate his cover he cannot hide. 3. He readied against casting, despite saying explicitly in his tactics not to do so unless he sees me. I was invisible. 4. Why didn't Balbanes move away from the wall when Tezca began climbing it? That makes no sense, seeing as how flight is a movement advantage Balbaes enjoys frequently. Essentially my beef is that because his tactics were altered, it made me go to contingencies I don't think should have ever come up. Not to mention Balbanes just stood there and took it. Granted it wasn't mentioned, but if I've got 30 rounds to burn, why not entangle the central area? 5% chance of immobilizing him+halves his movement. Again, I didn't include this in my tactics because I would have been 50ft in the air, not 30, not to mention I wouldn't even have to get that close, as a 40ft moving swarm can descend for 80ft of movement. Clearly it can be understood my purpose, and I know now, without a doubt, if it were done as I wanted I would have won before I ever became visible. Sure, the swarm won't damage him, but he'll bleed every round until he heals, and the spell lasts as long as I concentrate. I'll accept an extension if need be, or a loss if Luni demands it. |
| Usurpator11-16-05, 03:42 AM | Well, I did have some things to say but since I previously won I didn't want to push it. I'll accept an extension if need be, or a loss if Luni demands it. A Leopard can rake on a charge/pounce, so Tezca should get 5 grapple attempts, not 3. I have other issues as well, and can address some of yours King Uther. I am fine with accepting an extension if there is not sufficient time left before next pairings. |
| Usurpator11-16-05, 03:43 AM | If anyone finds rules on climbing, let me know.... As I PM'ed you, I posted them in this thread a few posts after you requested them. |
| Pittbull11-16-05, 03:50 AM | Re-run of Mer-Man vs Hagrid II (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7751318&postcount=643) done. No change in fight outcome (sorry, Pittbull), but let me sum up what was done differently: -I allowed Hagrid usage of Steadfast Perception, but not before downing the mount (I feel that is too much of a stretch for something not explicity written in) -Hagrid got off 1 augmented Ego Whip, but Mer-Man saved out -Mer-Man performed the dive correctly -No one noted that I was [accidently] robbing Hagrid of his Profession money. I added that in. Didn't you read my post? @Huan: I checked the rolls for Mer-Man vs Hagrid. You rolled only 4d6 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=188668) for DW, but it's 6d6. Battra could still fall in Round 2. But most importantly, Mer-Man cannot do the dive-attack, because he's dazed, therefor he can't do any actions. @Pittbull For Hagrid’s Stones... Regarding the Level 2 powers and perhaps a few more, shouldn’t they be at ML4 and priced accordingly? (after all, ML 4 is the minimum a PsyWar can manifest those powers.) Also, you have 13 pp per fight, but have 15 pp mapped out in the tactics (just something to note for the future). - The false priced powerstone are psion made, not psionic warrior-made, because they are also psion-powers. - Again, please read the pre-buffs: He has two PPs more because a manifester-service "Bestow Power". It has been aproved weeks ago, I used it allready 14 times. So with Bestow Power, Hagrid has 15 PPs not 13 PPs. All in all, Hagrid has won after the first hit with the ego whip, because Mer-Man won't come out of the dazed status anymore, if Hagrid hits him again and again with his ego whips. After the first hit Mer-Man has only 3 Cha left and Hagrid 6 uses of ego whip (1mem+5 powerstone, that's why you should pick it up after dropping it for the shot). Please take a look in the fight again, if you don't have the time, I'll accept the loss, but I would be very sad :weep: . |
| Vathelokai11-16-05, 06:51 AM | Nope. I'm going to go ahead and edit since it's getting later in the week and I want Azriel paired. Plus it's hard arguing a scythe crit and 25 falling damage. Well, since I didn't write in my prebuffs that my xbow was loaded, I can't really argue it. And also, since fly has a set durration, Auburn would just float to the ground...But this is imaterial. Good fight OWA. I'm glad the dice gods ended things decisively, but one day there will be a rematch. Time to start on my third win streak :) |
| Huan11-16-05, 08:51 AM | @Pittbull Yes, I'm an idiot for overlooking your prebuff twice in a row (Sorry :( ). Ok, I rolled the extra 2d6 (6 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=189373) dmg) so Battra falls in round 2, but WHY would Mer-Man be Dazed? (I admit such an event would likely spell defeat for Mer-Man, but it did not happen) He succeeded his Will save (Ego Whip only Dazes on a FAILED save). If nothing else, all things preserved, the fight will likely end like this at the end of round 2 where you killed Battra. Round 3: Mer-man draws/drinks Potion of Fly. You, suspecting he is invisible, draw/activate your Steadfast Perception powerstone. Round 4: He moves out of LOS while increasing altitude. You regain LOS and attack with an Augmented Ego Whip that he saves successfully from. Round 5: He dives and Hagrid dies. It would not change the order of events at all, except to save buffing expendables. That tidbit on powerstones is news for me. And all this time I thought they were like scrolls, where the minimum CL/ML had to be appropriate for your class. Guess I was wrong :rolleyes: (but its something useful to know, thanks). |
| Pittbull11-16-05, 11:36 AM | ..., but WHY would Mer-Man be Dazed? (I admit such an event would likely spell defeat for Mer-Man, but it did not happen) He succeeded his Will save (Ego Whip only Dazes on a FAILED save). OMG, I was wrong the whole time, I misread the text of Ego Whip and thought he is also dazed on a successfull save. Sorry, now I'm the idiot! |
| Luni11-16-05, 12:41 PM | Well, I did have some things to say but since I previously won I didn't want to push it. 1. Summon Swarm has a blindsense of 20ft, therefore if it is cast 25ft away from me in sight of Tezca, it would move to engage him. That was my plan. Fly as high as possible and unleash the plague. I am confident this would have worked if done properly. You said in your tactics you wanted to concentrate on the swarm! That means you have to be within 30' of it at all times. This is what you wrote, so don't blame me! 2. There is absolutely no way he can evade me for 30 rounds, being as I can fly and if I negate his cover he cannot hide. I agree after looking at fatigue again. Balbanes has superior movement. I'll give you 3 attacks every 4 rounds, with the 4th round he maneuvers away twice 3. He readied against casting, despite saying explicitly in his tactics not to do so unless he sees me. I was invisible. 4. Why didn't Balbanes move away from the wall when Tezca began climbing it? That makes no sense, seeing as how flight is a movement advantage Balbaes enjoys frequently. If he can't ready against spellcasting, you can't move away from the wall. Improvisation must happen both ways. Essentially my beef is that because his tactics were altered, it made me go to contingencies I don't think should have ever come up. Not to mention Balbanes just stood there and took it. Granted it wasn't mentioned, but if I've got 30 rounds to burn, why not entangle the central area? 5% chance of immobilizing him+halves his movement. Again, I didn't include this in my tactics because I would have been 50ft in the air, not 30, not to mention I wouldn't even have to get that close, as a 40ft moving swarm can descend for 80ft of movement. Clearly it can be understood my purpose, and I know now, without a doubt, if it were done as I wanted I would have won before I ever became visible. Sure, the swarm won't damage him, but he'll bleed every round until he heals, and the spell lasts as long as I concentrate. I'll accept an extension if need be, or a loss if Luni demands it. Comments in red above. I think you don't understand how concentration on a spell works King Uther. @Usurpator: Rakes only apply in a grapple. If you charge and manage to grapple, then you can get your rakes. Going to add in some extra Balbanes attacks now. |
| Usurpator11-16-05, 12:41 PM | @King Uther I am going to address some of your issues below: 1. Summon Swarm has a blindsense of 20ft, therefore if it is cast 25ft away from me in sight of Tezca, it would move to engage him. That was my plan. Fly as high as possible and unleash the plague. I am confident this would have worked if done properly. 1. I understand that this was your intention, and would I have Pitlorded it, I would have cast the Summon Swarm from maximum possible range. 2. It would have been a minor effort to add 'from maximum possible range' to your tactics. You didn't and left some leeway to the Pitlord. IMO what Luni did was not the best option, but it was an acceptable option. It didn't go against your written tactics in any case. 3. I am confident you plan wouldn't have worked properly (see later) 2. There is absolutely no way he can evade me for 30 rounds, being as I can fly and if I negate his cover he cannot hide. 1. Sure there is: read my tactics. Simply climbing a rock would allow me only to be discovered if you are flying directly above me. From any other position there is always a place that gives Tezca cover within hide ranks = feet. 2. There is nothing (and this bears repeating), nothing in your tactics to counter Tezca hiding. The Pitlord would have to improvise something acceptable, but doesn't need to make up optimal search and destroy tactics. 3. You got your free once in 10 rounds shot, even without Tezca having cover. Even without Tezca attempting to reclaim his bow. 3. He readied against casting, despite saying explicitly in his tactics not to do so unless he sees me. I was invisible. I agree. The only situation that I specifically desired Tezca to ready was in the very first round of combat. In other rounds I should hide and snipe, or hide and prepare for a charge/pounce. Both sniping and charging cannot be readies, so I didn't write any ready contingencies. The problem resides that Luni moves Tezca to a position where it is impossible to snipe from and ignored my general sniping intentions. (More in a later post) 4. Why didn't Balbanes move away from the wall when Tezca began climbing it? That makes no sense, seeing as how flight is a movement advantage Balbaes enjoys frequently. I have no idea. But it shouldn't really matter. By my calculations 5 grapple attacks that Tezca would get would be more than sufficient to put Balbanes into a grapple, even with mirror images up. Essentially my beef is that because his tactics were altered, it made me go to contingencies I don't think should have ever come up. Not to mention Balbanes just stood there and took it. Granted it wasn't mentioned, but if I've got 30 rounds to burn, why not entangle the central area? 5% chance of immobilizing him+halves his movement. Again, I didn't include this in my tactics because I would have been 50ft in the air, not 30, not to mention I wouldn't even have to get that close, as a 40ft moving swarm can descend for 80ft of movement. Clearly it can be understood my purpose, and I know now, without a doubt, if it were done as I wanted I would have won before I ever became visible. Sure, the swarm won't damage him, but he'll bleed every round until he heals, and the spell lasts as long as I concentrate. 1. My tactics were not altered. The choices Tezca made now resembled the tactics I wrote more closely. Luni assumed you couldn't charge/pounce when climbing. That assumption was wrong and now partially adressed. 2. Entangling the area is an improvisation that requires expenditure of expandables. Normally this is a big no-no unless written in tactics. 3. Since the ceiling is at 50 ft., the maximum height you can attain is 45 ft. with a maximum of 40 ft. between two gladiators on the same spot. Tezca can charge/pounce up to 60 ft. Your actual height wouldn't have mattered anyway. 4. You know that a swarm does only 1d6 damage, and Tezca has DR 5/silver? Only on rolling a 6 for damage a bleeding wound would be inflicted. Also, I sent Luni an e-mail with a tactics addendum shortly after sending my first e-mail, specifying to run away and cure with potion if bleeding. It didn't make it into the tactics text that Luni posted.... So I would just run away, rehide while the swarm wanders aimlessly, and you get revealed after 10 rounds so that Tezca can take a shot at you. Besides, with Tezca hiding, you would be hard pressed to find him before that 10 round delaying limit would pass, and since both are evading the other (Tezca by hiding, Balbanes by flying and being invisible) the public would indicate both after 10 rounds. After this Balbanes would have to be lucky to be within spellcasting range for his spells, and would take 1 round to cast it, while Tezca would have free shots at him (with the public pinpointing Balbanes) and would break LOS and rehide immediately after the first shot (as per my tactics), causing the swarm to arrive without seeing its target (and thus possibly wandering into the invisible Balbanes), if Balbanes even made the concentration check after Tezca hit him (which I think would be on a 2 on the attack roll....) during the casting. From Luni's rolls we see that Balbanes first concentration check would have failed. Generally, from reading your tactics it is clear to me that Tezca should have won, since I was well prepared for your tactics, but you didn't have anything written to counter mine. You had no method prepared to find me while Tezca was hiding, and had nothing to avoid the charge/pounce up the wall. I generally think highly of your tactics, but this time I think they were too brief and totally didn't take into account my tactics. It just that Luni diverted from my tactics on the very first round by not looking for a sniping spot but just climbing that rock in full view and then sitting there that you were even afforded a decent chance. And even you agree that this wouldn't be according to my intended tactics. Then the charge/pounce up the wall tactic was botched due to disallowing a charge/pounce and substituting a move/attack instead. I hope I have made clear with my arguments and quoted rules that you can charge while climbing and I hope you agree.... I will illustrate what went wrong with my sniping tactics in a later post, but first I got to prepare some food and do some work on the Gladius Arena Weekly. |
| Usurpator11-16-05, 12:43 PM | Comments in red above. I think you don't understand how concentration on a spell works King Uther. @Usurpator: Rakes only apply in a grapple. If you charge and manage to grapple, then you can get your rakes. @Luni check your SRD under Animal: Leopard Pounce (Ex): If a leopard charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks. I didn't put it literally into my special abilities section on my character sheet for naught. |
| One_Winged_Angel11-16-05, 03:56 PM | Well, since I didn't write in my prebuffs that my xbow was loaded, I can't really argue it. And also, since fly has a set durration, Auburn would just float to the ground...But this is imaterial. Good fight OWA. I'm glad the dice gods ended things decisively, but one day there will be a rematch. Time to start on my third win streak :) Except with fly it states that you expend the same effort as walking. Hard to do when you're not awake :) I'm looking foreward to the re-match, and good luck setting that winning streak! |
| Book511-16-05, 04:03 PM | Except with fly it states that you expend the same effort as walking. Hard to do when you're not awake :) Actually I do believe my good guildmaster is right. The first time I had him float down 5ft at a time. I think I just got into a little bit of a hurry there after the third rewrite (and that horrendous crit) - but with the flight spell - I think Auburn would have more properly floated downward at a nondamaging rate. "sleepwalked" her way down if you will. |