Post/Author/DateTime	Post
McJarvis 11-14-07, 01:27 PM	Reminder to everyone - the Pairings post in the Characters thread IS NOT TO BE USED THIS WEEK. Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. News & Whatnot Here's a report of a fight in the field, submitted by a devoted Pitlord With Denth Attacks Across the north, Dentik Earthmolder and Ialgo, Both Clerics of Elemental Influence Put aside their Racial Prejudices to travel across the Denth Infested land to Find an Ancient Temple dedicated to the Elemental lords. Battling 2 Bat winged hellhounds, Dentik came out of it with his Beard burnt, but with his Morning star Covered with the Infernal blood. Next he was Convinced by Ialgo to go into the Sewers instead of breaking the doors, where they encountered a pair of Otyugh who were easily dispatched with Fire and Spear, leaving the pair smelling very, very bad! After Climbing out of the bathroom chute, they Found 2 bat winged Orges who were Desecrating the Fire temple, Calling on the Powers of the Elemental lords, they were able to overcome the Ogres but not without Dentik taking a Serious hit that almost dropped him... Once the Ogres Died.. the heroes Unknowingly Released an Ancient Efreeti sorceror known as Incendia and his Fire Mephit familiar to return to the Planes of fire seeking revenge for being Imprisoned... This Article was turned over to this Reporter by an Fire mephit who disappeared after burning my Chair and stealing my lunch!! Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindwandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Telinartho will be stepping in for MindWandererB this week. Pairings will be posted in the Battles of Gladius thread only. [link (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14332678&postcount=1494)] Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
Macbrea 11-14-07, 01:30 PM	Hmm, is Telin doing pairings this week? If so, I won't be able to run anything this week. I will be gone out of state from Thursday to Tuesday.
McJarvis 11-14-07, 01:31 PM	I'm 99% sure on that. Correct me if I'm wrong, telin. Please note that patience will be required this week. From what I understand there are many hurdles that we have to jump over to get the pairings out.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 01:37 PM	Yes - and anything that would normally be sent to Pitlords (change in fights, new active characters etc) should be sent as well to me if you want it in the pairings. I'm actually going to start working on things now (as I get the time), but please do be patient.
Macbrea 11-14-07, 01:38 PM	That is fine. I am listed for <zero> fights at the moment anyways . But figured it would be safe to mention not to add me. Normally, I take up the extra fight in MWBs list. But, this week I have to go upto South Carolina and go apartment hunting for my move in Janruary.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 02:25 PM	If anyone sees a character that should have moved a level - let me know - this is the post I'll be using to determine activeness and subsequently pairings Characters of Gladius REWARDS http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Pfeil1.gif http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Goldhaufen.jpg LEVEL 3 CHARACTERS (LOW) Vaernya Thiri'vir (Ackermanus) [Power: 938 (938); 1 won, 2 lost] Helga the Hugger (bestelf) [Power: 897 (897); 0 won, 1 lost] Maeglin Eluch (bgt) [Power: 518 (518); 0 won, 6 lost] [Failure] [A] Sylean'delues (bgt) [Power: 602 (602); 0 won, 5 lost] [Failure] [A] Shaela of the Rooftops (Callix) [Power: 907 (907); 0 won, 1 lost] [A] Durzulgor I (Durzulgor) [Power: 1000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] Khaz Issolith (Eamane) [Power: 966 (966); 1 won, 1 lost] Dajeus (Eamane) [Power: 974 (974); 2 won, 2 lost] Shugho-zact (Eamane) [Power: 921 (921); 1 won, 2 lost] [A] The Needle (Eluria) [Power: 978 (978); 2 won, 2 lost] Altair (Hirumajoe) [Power: 1111 (1111); 1 won, 0 lost] Brother Ryu (hogarth) [Power: 1105 (1105); 2 won, 1 lost] Pander Skunk-eye (hogarth) [Power: 917 (917); 0 won, 1 lost] Korwald Barandar (lonewolf) [Power: 867 (867); 1 won, 2 lost] Grumsh (Luni) [Power: 953 (953); 1 won, 1 lost] Tanriel (Luni) [Power: 1098 (1098); 2 won, 1 lost] Lars d'Exavar (Macbrea) [Power: 895 (895); 1 won, 2 lost] Lord Matsuni (Macbrea) [Power: 1089 (1089); 2 won, 1 lost] [E] Thorell Runesmith (McJarvis) [Power: 999 (999); 1 won, 1 lost] Ryer Ord Star (NiQil) [Power: 883 (883); 1 won, 3 lost] Nemion (Nurlithion) [Power: 935 (935); 2 won, 3 lost] Gol'ie O'rean (Rauul) [Power: 770 (770); 1 won, 3 lost] Platon Deathsong (Rauul) [Power: 915 (915); 0 won, 1 lost] Diana Valassar (Sjiggie) [Power: 1061 (1061); 3 won, 2 lost] Psori D'Agostea (Taureus_Drakken) [Power: 799 (799); 0 won, 2 lost] [A] Mineau Guwango (Turanson) [Power: 844 (844); 1 won, 3 lost] Kii no Tamashii (Vathelokai) [Power: 1000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] Tweak II (Vathelokai) [Power: 914 (914); 0 won, 1 lost] Zodiac II (Vathelokai) [Power: 986 (986); 2 won, 2 lost] [E] Verren FireStarter (whitebaron) [Power: 720 (720); 1 won, 5 lost] LEVEL 4 CHARACTERS (LOW) [A] Verger Stonewall (Ackermanus) [Power: 1751 (1239); 4 won, 1 lost] Petyr Darry (Callix) [Power: 1261 (892); 3 won, 3 lost] Rennae Longhollow (Callix) [Power: 1057 (748); 3 won, 7 lost] Rolf (Dr.Funk) [Power: 1639 (1159); 5 won, 3 lost] Vivi (Dr.Funk) [Power: 1453 (1028); 3 won, 3 lost] Eámanë Oronrá (Eamane) [Power: 1626 (1150); 3 won, 2 lost][Q:1] Kykal Aiba (Eamane) [Power: 1880 (1330); 4 won, 0 lost] [A] Tzimosica (Eamane) [Power: 1399 (990); 1 won, 1 lost] Xuan Sunai (Eamane) [Power: 1928 (1364); 4 won, 0 lost] [A] Wroth Korthek (Eluria) [Power: 903 (639); 1 won, 5 lost] [Failure] [A] Kai Engel (Hirumajoe) [Power: 917 (649); 2 won, 8 lost] Atemu (Korone) [Power: 1195 (845); 4 won, 6 lost] [A] Marius (McJarvis) [Power: 1882 (1331); 4 won, 0 lost] [A] Quavein Siannodel (Nurlithion) [Power: 1739 (1230); 3 won, 0 lost] [A] Ssassetar (Nurlithion) [Power: 1778 (1258); 3 won, 0 lost] [A] Gortek ChaoSlayer (Rauul) [Power: 1251 (885); 3 won, 4 lost] Gradak Tumblebelly (Sjiggie) [Power: 1463 (1035); 3 won, 3 lost] Xanaver Valassar (Sjiggie) [Power: 1274 (901); 3 won, 3 lost] Berri the Friendly (TelinArtho) [Power: 1096 (775); 1 won, 4 lost] [M:1] Darrgon the Summoner (TelinArtho) [Power: 1029 (728); 3 won, 6 lost] Vallgar the Unhinged (TelinArtho) [Power: 1275 (902); 4 won, 5 lost] Snaga (The Dread Dormammu) [Power: 780 (552); 1 won, 7 lost] [Q:1] [Failure] Wooly (whitebaron) [Power: 1541 (1090); 4 won, 2 lost] LEVEL 5 CHARACTERS (LOW) Ikhain al-Habari (Abyssal Stalker) [Power: 2082 (1041); 4 won, 2 lost] [Q:1] [A] Ralein Dreamstriker (Callix) [Power: 2000 (1000); 5 won, 5 lost] Mohmat Iptomor (Eluria) [Power: 1610 (805); 7 won, 8 lost] Yakov (Korone) [Power: 2692 (1346); 7 won, 2 lost] [A] Darian Thorne (lonewolf) [Power: 3480 (1740); 10 won, 0 lost] [Great Renown] Flutterthought (MindWandererB) [Power: 2038 (1019); 1 won, 1 lost] [Special Power] Slade Tungsten (Sjiggie) [Power: 2000 (1000); 3 won, 3 lost] Ackbar Stormsword (Taureus_Drakken) [Power: 2010 (1005); 4 won, 4 lost] [Q:1] Countess Ural of Promethia (TelinArtho) [Power: 2710 (1355); 5 won, 2 lost] [Q:1] Dentik Earthmolder (TelinArtho) [Power: 1262 (893); 3 won, 5 lost] [Q:1] Ialgo (TelinArtho) [Power: 1518 (1074); 4 won, 2 lost] [Q:1] Kusari-Gama (Vathelokai) [Power: 2000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] [A] Remnant (Vathelokai) [Power: 2000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] Unholy Ninja (Vathelokai) [Power: 3144 (1572); 8 won, 1 lost] [Great Renown] [A] Gwerdan "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) [Power: 2532 (1266); 7 won, 3 lost] Kathren Durrol (Zevox) [Power: 2994 (1497); 9 won, 3 lost] Shadow Inquisition (Party) [Power: 1942 (971); 1 won, 1 lost] Gelden Sezenem (Ackermanus) [Power: 1000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] Buppi (bestelf) [Power: 1000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] LEVEL 6 CHARACTERS (LOW) Balthazar Picsou (hogarth) [Power: 2033 (719); 4 won, 11 lost] [Q:1] [Special Power] Razorfang (Macbrea) [Power: 2050 (725); 2 won, 7 lost] [A] Graashnak Vruuurk (Rauul) [Power: 1977 (699); 5 won, 11 lost] [M:1] [Failure] The shadow (Rauul) [Power: 2251 (796); 4 won, 7 lost] [Q:3] Felice tu'Ria (Salrantol) [Power: 3993 (1412); 10 won, 3 lost] Valanthe Valassar (Sjiggie) [Power: 2395 (847); 1 won, 3 lost] [Q:4] Farig of Denth (TelinArtho) [Power: 2426 (858); 8 won, 9 lost] Lady Liara (templer10) [Power: 4095 (1448); 10 won, 3 lost] El Rapido (templer10) [Power: 2115 (748); 0 won, 3 lost] [A] Inzin Dar'ath (waywreth) [Power: 4157 (1470); 11 won, 3 lost] [A] The Eternal Dreamless Sleep (Team) [Power: 2989 (1057); 2 won, 1 lost] Snake-Eyes Stormshadow (hogarth) [Power: 1414 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] The merciful killer (templer10) [Power: 1414 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] [A] Wiener Wadlbeisser (Team) [Power: 2743 (970); 1 won, 2 lost] Falko (lonewolf) [Power: 1000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] Crucio (whitebaron) [Power: 1000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] Khamul (mucki) [Power: 1000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] LEVEL 7 CHARACTERS (MID) [Q] Erithmu Darkmane (Erithmu) [Power: 3592 (898); 3 won, 6 lost] [Q:3] Treetall Oakleg (hogarth) [Power: 7160 (1790); 11 won, 1 lost] [Q:3] [M:1] [Great Renown] Marcus Tallfellow (Macbrea) [Power: 3240 (810); 0 won, 2 lost] [Q:3] [E] Yorick (Macbrea) [Power: 3832 (958); 3 won, 5 lost] [Q:1][M:1] [E] Gakhnalak Strongjaw (MindWandererB) [Power: 5416 (1354); 11 won, 4 lost, 1 draw] [Q:1] Maya Redwine (MindWandererB) [Power: 6308 (1577); 16 won, 6 lost] [Q:1] [Great Renown] Enoch the Prophet (Salrantol) [Power: 5256 (1314); 12 won, 8 lost] [Q:3] [A] Kilor Mintolo (Salrantol) [Power: 3448 (862); 2 won, 3 lost] [A] Varjo (Stormwind) [Power: 5036 (1259); 3 won, 1 lost] [Q:2] [Special Power] [Q] Bulgar Stronghammer (TelinArtho) [Power: 3620 (905); 6 won, 9 lost] [Q:4] Mithos Durrol (Zevox) [Power: 4240 (1060); 9 won, 8 lost] [Q:3] LEVEL 8 CHARACTERS (MID) Reginald Molehusband (hogarth) [Power: 9413 (1664); 14 won, 2 lost] [Q:3] [Great Renown] Rubicanti (TheMagister) [Power: 3705 (655); 12 won, 12 lost] [Q:1] [Failure] [P] Antalya (Vathelokai) [Power: 4632 (819); 2 won, 4 lost] [Q:3] [UnCon Bronze] The Battlesong Duet (Party) [Power: 7874 (1392); 7 won, 3 lost] [Q:1] Cupid De Locke (McJarvis) [Power: 2828 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] Tessero Valis (TheMagister) [Power: 3965 (1402); 6 won, 1 lost] LEVEL 9 CHARACTERS (MID) [C] Kitty (lonewolf) [Power: 9920 (1240); 7 won, 2 lost] [Q:2] [Special Power] [A] Izumi (Macbrea) [Power: 4184 (523); 11 won, 23 lost] [Failure] Relanex Thines (Macbrea) [Power: 7448 (931); 6 won, 10 lost] Monsieur Hood (TheMagister) [Power: 12816 (1602); 15 won, 6 lost] [Q:3] [Great Renown] [A] Aquin (TelinArtho) [Power: 7624 (953); 1 won, 1 lost] [Special Power] Arden Tarmik (Zevox) [Power: 10176 (1272); 7 won, 6 lost] [Q:3] Ceilia Durrol (Zevox) [Power: 17184 (2148); 17 won, 1 lost] [Q:7] [Great Renown] LEVEL 10 CHARACTERS (MID) Jonathon Raven Gravebound (Abyssal Stalker) [Power: 12320 (1089); 2 won, 1 lost] [Q:6] [Special Power] [C] Ephraim (Erithmu) [Power: 10171 (899); 0 won, 1 lost] [Q:3][C:1] [Special Power] [X] Torel Silvanus (Erithmu) [Power: 14526 (1284); 15 won, 10 lost] [Q:4] Therador Goldscale (lonewolf) [Power: 14096 (1246); 3 won, 1 lost] [Special Power] Lord Frost (Macbrea) [Power: 6018 (532); 3 won, 9 lost] [Q:2] [Special Power] [Failure] [E] Malik of Black Robe (Malither76) [Power: 10872 (961); 6 won, 6 lost] [Q:3] [C] Retikos, The Padparadasha Sage (SauroGrenom) [Power: 14062 (1243); 2 won, 0 lost] [Q:1] [E] Kraegin (TelinArtho) [Power: 10759 (951); 10 won, 17 lost] [Q:3] Sir Valkin (TelinArtho) [Power: 13203 (1167); 15 won, 9 lost] [Q:4][C:1] [C] Auburn in Twilight (Vathelokai) [Power: 11313 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] Eraca Moralta (Zevox) [Power: 12524 (1107); 14 won, 6 lost] [Q:2][M:2][C:1] Featylec Elendi (Zevox) [Power: 7580 (670); 5 won, 11 lost] [Q:4][C:1] [Failure] LEVEL 11 CHARACTERS (MID) The Chameleon (lonewolf) [Power: 20928 (1308); 9 won, 5 lost] [Q:2] [C] Gareth Irontower (Malither76) [Power: 17360 (1085); 8 won, 6 lost] [Q:2][C:1][M:1] Aerryl Nalladar (MindWandererB) [Power: 18128 (1133); 19 won, 13 lost] [Q:5] [C] Besthirah Lafali (MindWandererB) [Power: 16544 (1034); 6 won, 5 lost] [Q:1] [Special Power] [Iron Man Silver] [X] Kervan Sheharath (MindWandererB) [Power: 18000 (1125); 16 won, 21 lost] [Q:2] [X] Raskos the Jade Father (SauroGrenom) [Power: 15712 (982); 7 won, 8 lost] [Q:5][M:1] [Iron Man Gold] [A] Elrick Flamebrother (templer10) [Power: 31120 (1945); 21 won, 3 lost] [Q:1] [Great Renown] [C] Sdentch the Angelic (TheMagister) [Power: 16000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] [Q:3] [Special Power] Archdevil Asran (Zevox) [Power: 20592 (1287); 10 won, 7 lost] [Q:6] [Special Power] [C] Nimbus (Zevox) [Power: 16000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] [Special Power] LEVEL 12 CHARACTERS (HIGH) Lemminkäinen (Abyssal Stalker) [Power: 22627 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] [Q:1][C:1] [X] Owen Ir'Tolden (Erithmu) [Power: 22627 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] [Q:1][C:1] [Iron Man Bronze] [A] Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) [Power: 26835 (1186); 20 won, 16 lost] [Q:2] Kilpquabjeg (hogarth) [Power: 25931 (1146); 9 won, 6 lost] [Q:2][C:1] [A] Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) [Power: 15567 (688); 4 won, 16 lost] [Q:7] [A] Kracknol (SauroGrenom) [Power: 22468 (993); 24 won, 17 lost] [M:1][C:1] [C] Vandelar the Red (SoulLord) [Power: 31452 (1390); 19 won, 10 lost] [Q:4] Longshot (templer10) [Power: 44078 (1948); 19 won, 1 lost] [Great Renown] Gaston Dar'ath (waywreth) [Power: 33488 (1480); 25 won, 10 lost] [Q:2] Istima Telarc (Zevox) [Power: 33714 (1490); 13 won, 5 lost] [Q:3][C:1] LEVEL 13 CHARACTERS (HIGH) Samuel Highground (lonewolf) [Power: 53024 (1657); 12 won, 7 lost] [Q:4][M:1] [Great Renown] [Special Power] Lord Lorian (templer10) [Power: 75520 (2360); 29 won, 4 lost] [Great Renown] [X] PsiBeast (Vathelokai) [Power: 32896 (1028); 1 won, 2 lost] [Q:1][C:1] LEVEL 14 CHARACTERS (HIGH) None. LEVEL 15 CHARACTERS (HIGH) None. LEVEL 16 CHARACTERS (HIGH) [FROZEN] None. LEVEL 17 CHARACTERS (EPIC) [FROZEN] [Old] Donkey (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2722513) (SnarkHunter): 10 won, 13 lost [4°/1b] LEVEL 18 CHARACTERS (EPIC) [FROZEN] [Old] Prof. Vandaeris Dre'Dandrahl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2726051) (Caterane): 15 won, 4 lost [1b] [Old] Corinthus Avius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2722346) (Druid Roxors): 15 won, 9 lost [1b] [Old] The Harvester (1st avatar) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2726018) (Caterane): 16 won, 4 lost [2m] LEVEL 19 CHARACTERS (EPIC) [FROZEN] [Old] Angosh (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2727690) (Pittbull): 12 won, 19 lost [5b] LEVEL 20 CHARACTERS (EPIC) [FROZEN] [Old] The Harvester (2nd avatar) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2726039) (Caterane): 18 won, 3 lost [3m] [Champion] To link a single post: NAME or NAME The number (7 digits) may be found on your browser status bar when placing the mouse cursor over the "#" in the top right corner of the post or by hovering the mouse cursor over the quote button. GLADIUS GRAVEYARD http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Pfeil1.gif http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Grabstein.gif
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 02:42 PM	@Eamane - Xuan's ready line isn't in his title line. Make sure to put it there if you do want to be paired (as the ready-crawler only looks at the title line). I happened to see it as I was checking levels - but please do put it up there if you can in time.
Macbrea 11-14-07, 02:55 PM	Ah.. to start writting quick tactics for izumi vs aquin!
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 03:00 PM	You don't want a monster fight with Izumi and Aquin as a team? Or just them as a team vs an ECL11? Anyway - starting to get things going - so I'll be busy for a bit...
templer10 11-14-07, 03:05 PM	You don't want a monster fight with Izumi and Aquin as a team? Or just them as a team vs an ECL11? Anyway - starting to get things going - so I'll be busy for a bit... I vote for them vs elrick
Macbrea 11-14-07, 03:13 PM	hmm, I would rather have the level 11 monster over Elrick. :P
templer10 11-14-07, 03:15 PM	hmm, I would rather have the level 11 monster over Elrick. :P Dont know what you mean... elrick is very.... Not threatening....
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 03:39 PM	Okay - looks like I could use a few volunteers on fights that are not yet assigned pitlords: ECL4 Kai Engel (Hirumajoe) vs. Quavein Siannodel (Nurlithion) : XXXXX [City] ECL5 Ralein Dreamstriker (Callix) vs. Gwerdan "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) : XXXXX [City] (I have already used the +1 fights for everyone listed - so for those of you who have them - bear that in mind...)
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 03:46 PM	Pairings are done (kind of) - but I still need a few pitlords to cover the above fights. MWB will be handling credits, so be patient with them until his return. @t10 and MacBrea - I rolled it to determine an interleague fight - but it didn't happen. Maybe another time...
whitebaron 11-14-07, 03:49 PM	@telin: as far as i can see, you have assigne me two fights. 2+1 optional it should be. so better make it 3. ;)
hogarth 11-14-07, 03:49 PM	Any chance of having a team vs team fight in ECL 6? That'd free up a pitlord.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 03:54 PM	Any chance of having a team vs team fight in ECL 6? That'd free up a pitlord. Per MWB - 4 max per fight. If someone WANTS to run that fight - I could set it up, but I certainly don't want it... @whitebaron - mind the ECl12 fight? Should be a quick one, one way or another... Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs. Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) : whitebaron [Arena]
templer10 11-14-07, 03:58 PM	Telin- having Elrick fight Izumi & aquin will free up a pitlord and i am not exacly fond of monster fights. also having 1 of the teams in ECL 6 vs Graashnak and the other team vs Inzin will free up another pitlord.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 03:58 PM	And - just went back to check. Apparently Eamane asked to be removed from the pitlord roster, but didn't send a PM. So that's two more fights I need pitlords for... EDIT - @t10 - I realize that. I think I'm going to have to do it too. Ironically enough, instituting a SoE wouldn't really matter here - as there are few people with more than 1 character active and only 1 with more than 2 (and that's erithmu with 2 crafting and another on a quest...)
whitebaron 11-14-07, 04:00 PM	Per MWB - 4 max per fight. If someone WANTS to run that fight - I could set it up, but I certainly don't want it... @whitebaron - mind the ECl12 fight? Should be a quick one, one way or another... Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs. Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) : whitebaron [Arena] i think erithmu said he wanted to run THAT team vs team fight. ;) that fight is fine with me, but if any of them tries a delay tactic, my delay-penalty will be an elder earth elemental. - just to make it clear beforehand. ;)
Erithmu 11-14-07, 04:01 PM	Yea ... I'll take the team vs Team fight ... just reassign my other one. PS: Telin I'm going to email you something later today if you could take a look at it, you will understand when it gets there.
templer10 11-14-07, 04:02 PM	Ironically enough, instituting a SoE wouldn't really matter here - as there are few people with more than 1 character active and only 1 with more than 2 (and that's erithmu with 2 crafting and another on a quest...) yea i can barely run 2 fights this week since i only have friday and saturday to do it. p.s. - Mcjarvis, whitebaron, Hirumajoe - get me your tactics soonest please so i can run the fgiths and stil have time for edits.
McJarvis 11-14-07, 04:03 PM	If you take me off of the Elrick fight, please add me onto a non-monster fight. I'd rather not have to pitlord for the Eternal Sleep again so soon. (I'm not sure Hogarth could take getting me for three monster fights inside of two weeks. Actually- just as long as I don't pitlord for anyone I did last week- templer or hogarth)
McJarvis 11-14-07, 04:04 PM	yea i can barely run 2 fights this week since i only have friday and saturday to do it. p.s. - Mcjarvis, whitebaron, Hirumajoe - get me your tactics soonest please so i can run the fgiths and stil have time for edits. tactics for thorell vs firestarter are in the battles thread, right about the pairings. It should be a pretty straight forward fight.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 04:05 PM	Bear with me guys - lots of changes coming in - so don't send tactics yet.
McJarvis 11-14-07, 04:06 PM	You might want to put in big red-letters "Not final yet" or something similar.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 04:07 PM	If you take me off of the Elrick fight, please add me onto a non-monster fight. I'd rather not have to pitlord for the Eternal Sleep again so soon. (I'm not sure Hogarth could take getting me for three monster fights inside of two weeks. Actually- just as long as I don't pitlord for anyone I did last week- templer or hogarth) I can give you the ECL12 Monster Fight, the ECL9 interleague (Aquin and Izumi vs Elrick) or any 1 of 3 1v1 fights (ECL3, 4, 5)
Macbrea 11-14-07, 04:07 PM	heh.. oops. sent off Izumi's tactics.. will send them to whomever gets it.
McJarvis 11-14-07, 04:08 PM	I'll take the ECL12 then. I just want to avoid going up against the same players two weeks in a row- especially considering how heated monster fights can get with me.
Stormwind 11-14-07, 04:09 PM	@telin: You have paired Kilor Mintolo (Salrantol) vs. Varjo (Stormwind) : Hirumajoe [Sewer] Now I definitely don't mind, however Kilor's title line reads: Ready for November 14, 2007 [ECL 7] [Fight 1] MQ Warmind Just wanted to bring this to your attention.
McJarvis 11-14-07, 04:10 PM	I will take this one in addition to the ECL12 if you need me to: Kai Engel (Hirumajoe) vs. Quavein Siannodel (Nurlithion) : XXXXX [City]
waywreth 11-14-07, 04:11 PM	Telin - I noticed you have Luni pitlording Inzin's fight. (S)he asked to be removed from the pitlord roster. The setup is there if someone else wants to run it. I'm going to go ask Pitlords to be removed from pitlording becasue I simply do not have the time necessary between work and renovating my place.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 04:12 PM	Yeah - so this will take a while. @McJ - you have the monster fight and an ECL3 then. @templer10- you get one of the other fights @Stormwind - noted - will change. @waywreth - noted. I was looking to see that - I hadn't found it yet - so thank you. Does anyone want the new monster fight for Varjo or the Miniquest for Kilor?
McJarvis 11-14-07, 04:14 PM	Yeah - so this will take a while. @McJ - you have the monster fight and an ECL3 then. Alright. I wanted to get a close-up view of Kai Engel [since Hirm mentioned we might be doing a challenge match as soon as Thorell levels], but I'll take the little 'ol ECL3 fight instead ;) [the secret is out. Half of the reason I pitlord is to get an up-close and personal view of people's characters]
templer10 11-14-07, 04:20 PM	Yeah - so this will take a while. @McJ - you have the monster fight and an ECL3 then. @templer10- you get one of the other fights @Stormwind - noted - will change. @waywreth - noted. I was looking to see that - I hadn't found it yet - so thank you. Does anyone want the new monster fight for Varjo or the Miniquest for Kilor? How much you have me down then for? i can do an absolute MAX of 2 fights - one of which needs to be simple - iam not at home from sunday-late wendsday (army reserve training) so i can only run fights friday/saturday.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 04:21 PM	Sorry - got the two confused. Okay guys - down to a few left, feel free to volunteer: Ralein Dreamstriker (Callix) and Gwerdan "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) vs Varjo (Stormwind)ECL7 : XXXXX [City] [Interleague] Kilor Mintolo (Salrantol) miniquests for Warmind Prestige Class Requirements: XXXXX Aquin (TelinArtho) and Izumi (Macbrea) vs Elrick Flamebrother (templer10)ECL11: XXXXX [Cavern] [Interleague] Should be some fairly interesting fights. @templer10 - you have one fight which has tactics already posted (ECL3), the other fight is an ECL4. I'm doing the best I can.
hogarth 11-14-07, 04:23 PM	I'd rather not have to pitlord for the Eternal Sleep again so soon. T.E.D.S. is fighting the other team, so they're monster-free this week.
Rauul 11-14-07, 04:27 PM	Telin.. i can take the Miniquest... if you need me to..
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 04:29 PM	Thanks Rauul - consider it yours.
Hirumajoe 11-14-07, 04:34 PM	I guess I'll take the ECL 11 interleague (Elrick vs the two melee monsters. :) ) One side I expect to have easy tactics for at least...
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 04:38 PM	Thanks Joe. Just one fight left: Ralein Dreamstriker (Callix) and Gwerdan "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) vs Varjo (Stormwind)ECL7 : XXXXX [City] [Interleague] If someone wants to take the ECL3 I have, I'll pick the one above up.
Nurlithion 11-14-07, 04:39 PM	Hey, I didn't manage to post earlier, but I noticed all the mess with fights. I think this might be too late, but if you want I don't mind inactivating Ssassetar for this week, which might free up someone for an interleague or something.
Hirumajoe 11-14-07, 04:43 PM	@McJarivs: Just noticed you've been subbed in for Templer10 running the monster fight. Even though templer10 already seems to have rolled the monster... Anyways, I was wondering if I can get something cleared up. I know I have had monster fights in which Valen's ambush and scout packages have worked. Is that the correct way of doing things? I know some people have stated in the past they shouldn't, and I just like a clear answer from an Elder on the matter. Thanks.
Rauul 11-14-07, 04:46 PM	Thanks Joe. Just one fight left: Ralein Dreamstriker (Callix) and Gwerdan "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) vs Varjo (Stormwind)ECL7 : XXXXX [City] [Interleague] If someone wants to take the ECL3 I have, I'll pick the one above up. Gimme the ECL 3 one... you can take the inter league one.. :schemes: Edit=> if Ssassetar pulls out... Gortek wouldn't mind to be tossed into whitebaron forest fight and turn it into a FFA.. Would prefer to not have a monster fight if at all possable...
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 04:54 PM	Sure thing Rauul. @Nurlithion - deactivating at this point would not actually help (since it would replace your character with a monter. So no need. I did receive a PM from you (via Pitlords) on a special request, but due to the pitlord shortage, was not able to grant it. I will make sure MWB didn't charge the credit for it though. @Hirumajoe - the rules specifically state that the Attack/Defend packages only apply to 1v1 fights. That said - the person who does pairings still has to specify the "attacker" and "defender" for monster fights - so it is certainly a questionable thing. EDIT - AND PAIRINGS ARE DONE. Thank you for all the help guys.
McJarvis 11-14-07, 04:56 PM	@Hirm: Cat always held to the idea that a monster fight isn't a 1v1 fight, so skill packages don't apply. If you want to get into the nitty gritty of it: it'd be pretty hard to mitigate(but not impossible) too, since a gladiator might not even know if the skill package worked or not. [due to a lack of knowledge of the monsters skills] Basically: As written they don't- but I don't see anything wrong with us making them work, assuming we worked out some of the minor bugs. RE: Monster roll- I'd really rather have the monster roll in the same roller as the fight. Since t10 didn't put up a begining post or anything, I don't see a difference in using his roll or having a new one. [since I don't know what either will be yet] I'll get that info up as soon as I get home tonight.
Eamane 11-14-07, 05:07 PM	@Eamane - Xuan's ready line isn't in his title line. Make sure to put it there if you do want to be paired (as the ready-crawler only looks at the title line). I happened to see it as I was checking levels - but please do put it up there if you can in time. Thats correct; I was going to have Xuan active but de-activated her at the last second by clearing out her title line. So it's fine (and good) that she didn't get paired.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 05:08 PM	Oh good. Because although I made that mention, I then completely forgot about it when I was doing the pairings...
whitebaron 11-14-07, 05:09 PM	Ralein Dreamstriker (Callix) and Gwerdan "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) vs Varjo (Stormwind)ECL7 : XXXXX [City] [Interleague] how did i end up with this mess of a fight? was already beginning to write tactics...
hogarth 11-14-07, 05:10 PM	Anyways, I was wondering if I can get something cleared up. I know I have had monster fights in which Valen's ambush and scout packages have worked. Is that the correct way of doing things? I know some people have stated in the past they shouldn't, and I just like a clear answer from an Elder on the matter. Thanks. I think it should work if you're fighting one (and only one) monster.
Rauul 11-14-07, 05:11 PM	Kilor Mintolo (Salrantol) miniquest is up.. Into the Mind of the Warrior (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=952803)
Rauul 11-14-07, 05:12 PM	how did i end up with this mess of a fight? was already beginning to write tactics... Well I tried to give you another FFA...
Rauul 11-14-07, 05:35 PM	@whitebaron tactics for Gortek sent... should be fast and bloody
Rauul 11-14-07, 05:42 PM	Honestly don't see a Way for Graashnak to beat Inzin.. but will think on it for a day or 2 (by Friday) to decide to submit tactics or surrender..
lonewolf 11-14-07, 05:43 PM	@Taureus: tactics for Darian sent. Tactics for the team fight will probably be sent on Friday.
Stormwind 11-14-07, 05:55 PM	@TelinArtho: tactics for Varjo sent
Stormwind 11-14-07, 05:57 PM	how did i end up with this mess of a fight? was already beginning to write tactics... The luck of the draw ... Varjo's a nasty opponent - and not just because she's Chaotic evil ;)
whitebaron 11-14-07, 05:59 PM	i never liked monster fights... and your's is nothing as another monster, with even more equip possible and most likely better tactics. all in all [x] ban monsters from gladius!
Stormwind 11-14-07, 06:12 PM	i never liked monster fights... and your's is nothing as another monster, with even more equip possible and most likely better tactics. all in all [x] ban monsters from gladius! Actually as a purely incorporeal creature (i.e. not a ghost), Shadow characters cannot use equipment except for ghost touch weapons and armor (and 1 or 2 odd items like tomes and manuals). Makes for a fairly significant limitation.
Vathelokai 11-14-07, 06:20 PM	Monster info for Mineau (Tauranson) is up, and sent by pm. My week for dragons... :evillaugh
McJarvis 11-14-07, 06:34 PM	my tactics are out. should be an interesting week.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 06:35 PM	In case anyone feels like double checking - I believe these are the credits (excluding admin credits): Erithmu Q-1 A-1 F2 C3 Hirumajoe F3 McJarvis F2 Rauul F3 Taureus_Drakken F3 TelinArtho Q-1 F2 C3 templer10 F2 Vathelokai Q2 F1 whitebaron F3 'Rith's might be worth 3 (since it is usually 1 credit per 2 combatants and that fight has 5...) Cya later on guys (or more accurately - tomorrow).
whitebaron 11-14-07, 06:40 PM	ah, before i forget: verren would maybe like to take a crafting action because his fight was held over. how exactly is this done, and i assume he would not be considered active for that?
Erithmu 11-14-07, 06:49 PM	ah, before i forget: verren would maybe like to take a crafting action because his fight was held over. how exactly is this done, and i assume he would not be considered active for that? You send a PM to Pitlords and it gets added to the Fights post ... so you might need to PM Telin for the edit. You list what you want to craft (under 1000gp market value)
whitebaron 11-14-07, 06:57 PM	You send a PM to Pitlords and it gets added to the Fights post ... so you might need to PM Telin for the edit. You list what you want to craft (under 1000gp market value) it's just scrolls of true strike... so he should be way under 1000gp. ;)
Taureus_Drakken 11-14-07, 07:34 PM	@ Telin and Malither76: I will get working on edits as soon as possible, expect them tomorrow night [EST] (24 hours from now) at the latest. I guess I was in a rush to get it done before the deadline (seems I either failed, or the edits are what is holding over the fight) and missed a few key elements. I don't know how I figured Malik needed to be 55 feet away in order to use the short range spells (my math was a little off it would seem ;) ). I will edit in three uses of Black Cloud (barring it getting killed before than if Slain makes his saves). And I am still a little sketchy about when spell-effects end during rounds, but I will remember they end at the beginning of the caster's/user's action. I totally missed needing to calculate allies into rewards...My bad. :rolleyes: Might as well make the edit before calculating rewards...The outcome might be different. ~Taureus~
Taureus_Drakken 11-14-07, 07:47 PM	@ lonewolf: I fixed the link for Darian's last fight. Here it is again. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14313248&postcount=1487) ~Taureus~
Eluria 11-14-07, 07:49 PM	@Rauul and T10 - my tactics out; enjoy!
McJarvis 11-14-07, 08:03 PM	Monster info for Valen Sky is up. First monster roll were 2 advanced hd bulletes, but I wasn't that lucky & the fight was in the sewers. [geez- only having to pick 3 feats, no treasure, and write tactics? That would have been awesome!]
Hirumajoe 11-14-07, 10:55 PM	@McJarvis:Tactics for Valen Sky vs the unknown man have been sent. Edit: @Taureus: Tactics sent for Kai Engel.
Vathelokai 11-14-07, 11:55 PM	@Taureus_Drakken: Tactics for Remnant are away.
SauroGrenom 11-15-07, 12:20 AM	Do we still do the rematch thing where a perfect rematch is changed a bit? Kracknol fought Baelin last week in the arena. There's nothing that's changed, except that Kracknol has a fresh 3FC and more stuff. In the past these situations have been adjusted to minimize the numbers of rematches, do we still do that?
Callix 11-15-07, 12:39 AM	@McJarvis: Tactics for Shaela sent. It may take a while... @TelinArtho: Whitebaron and I have decided to give it a whirl. Tactics, as opposed to surrenders, will follow. Eventually.
TelinArtho 11-15-07, 12:43 AM	Do we still do the rematch thing where a perfect rematch is changed a bit? Kracknol fought Baelin last week in the arena. There's nothing that's changed, except that Kracknol has a fresh 3FC and more stuff. In the past these situations have been adjusted to minimize the numbers of rematches, do we still do that? Crap - didn't realize that. I can't very well rematch things now - but if you guys would prefer a different map - I can certainly do that. Up to the two of you.
Vathelokai 11-15-07, 12:45 AM	Do we still do the rematch thing where a perfect rematch is changed a bit? Kracknol fought Baelin last week in the arena. There's nothing that's changed, except that Kracknol has a fresh 3FC and more stuff. In the past these situations have been adjusted to minimize the numbers of rematches, do we still do that? The rule as I understand it is that if you have the same ecl and it's the same map, then it can be changed.
SauroGrenom 11-15-07, 01:07 AM	Crap - didn't realize that. I can't very well rematch things now - but if you guys would prefer a different map - I can certainly do that. Up to the two of you.Honestly, I'd rather work with Baelin vs an ECL14 monster than fight Baelin again. That makes for a much harder fight to pitlord, but Baelin's PR is so far down their that Kracknol's not going to get much credit for beating him again. I don't see how Baelin's going to be able to do anything different against Kracknol on any map... Although the ECL14 monsters are very nasty... It's just a suggestion. Let's see if Malither has an opinion.
whitebaron 11-15-07, 02:20 AM	@telin: callix will send the tactics for the interleague. team's tactics will be sent on friday, as usual... :)
TelinArtho 11-15-07, 11:04 AM	Honestly, I'd rather work with Baelin vs an ECL14 monster than fight Baelin again. That makes for a much harder fight to pitlord, but Baelin's PR is so far down their that Kracknol's not going to get much credit for beating him again. I don't see how Baelin's going to be able to do anything different against Kracknol on any map... Although the ECL14 monsters are very nasty... It's just a suggestion. Let's see if Malither has an opinion. Changing the 1v1 fight to a 2 v 1 interleague fight is a big change for the pitlord. That would be at whitebaron's discretion. If he is fine with it - he can go ahead and roll the monster. Otherwise, I can either cancel the fight or let you two duke it out again (on either the same map or a different one).
whitebaron 11-15-07, 11:34 AM	as i'm low on time this week, i'd rather not switch things like that, but if both players agree i could do this as well - assuming you write tactics together and send them to me together till saturday, as i'll not be able to post monster info before friday. (off to rpg-evening with lonewolf durzo and mucki)
SauroGrenom 11-15-07, 11:45 AM	as i'm low on time this week, i'd rather not switch things like that, but if both players agree i could do this as well - assuming you write tactics together and send them to me together till saturday, as i'll not be able to post monster info before friday. (off to rpg-evening with lonewolf durzo and mucki) In that case, I'd rather not put whitebaron in a tough situation. We can just run the battle as a classic rematch. I'll send tactics tonight.
TelinArtho 11-15-07, 12:12 PM	@MWB - I sent the PR changes and credit breakdown and other notes to the Pitlords account. Let me know if there are any questions (there were a lot of mistakes by me this week... so I wouldn't be surprised).
Taureus_Drakken 11-15-07, 12:15 PM	If you fail your save against Black Cloud a second time, do you make two action rolls every turn after that or just one? ~Taureus~
TelinArtho 11-15-07, 12:16 PM	Nope. Insanity is a status condition - so you can't be insane twice. @Hirumajoe - tactics for Aquin and Izumi vs the halfling riding a bat and his pet dog have been sent.
Taureus_Drakken 11-15-07, 12:18 PM	Just wanted to be sure. It didn't seem likely, but it's best to check before moving forward. A note, this is going to make things take a long time, deleting every attack for now that Slain made, and rolling for his action every round... -back to edits- ~Taureus~
TelinArtho 11-15-07, 12:29 PM	Just wanted to be sure. It didn't seem likely, but it's best to check before moving forward. A note, this is going to make things take a long time, deleting every attack for now that Slain made, and rolling for his action every round... -back to edits- ~Taureus~ The downside to insanity is the extra roll each round... as the opponent in this case though - I rather like the possibility that he doesn't attack me every round... (Sorry about the extra work though).
Taureus_Drakken 11-15-07, 12:36 PM	It's not a problem, I rushed things when I tried to get it done the first time, so karma is coming back to bite me where it hurts. :D Besides, things have taken a complete turn-around already...More after finishing edits. ~Taureus~
templer10 11-15-07, 01:26 PM	Hirumajoe tactics for Elrick vs summons dinner are out - Telin & macbrea - no PFE? tsk tsk
Taureus_Drakken 11-15-07, 01:51 PM	If the Achaierai dies, the Insanity doesn't end correct? Sorry for so many questions about this fight... ~Taureus~
Macbrea 11-15-07, 02:18 PM	Is small arena.. not much space to run.
TelinArtho 11-15-07, 02:33 PM	If the Achaierai dies, the Insanity doesn't end correct? Sorry for so many questions about this fight... ~Taureus~ Correct.
Hirumajoe 11-15-07, 02:57 PM	Tactics for Aquin and Izumi vs the Elrick and friends are up. Hope to get to the fight this evening. Looks to be an interesting match up.
templer10 11-15-07, 03:01 PM	Tactics for Aquin and Izumi vs the Elrick and friends are up. Hope to get to the fight this evening. Looks to be an interesting match up. Looks like i forgot about the silence thing and they forgot about freedom of movement and wall of thorns. p.s - How do you get over 3 huge dire wolves to get at the small halfling behind them? those should be some intresting AOA's... on another note Thorell Runesmith (McJarvis) vs. Verren FireStarter (whitebaron) is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14341471&postcount=1501) - Sucks to get a True strike Crited arrow up the a$$
Macbrea 11-15-07, 03:03 PM	To be exact. We have tactics that say kill dire wolf.. it doesn't specify which. So. dire wolves must die before you do apparently.
McJarvis 11-15-07, 03:10 PM	on another note Thorell Runesmith (McJarvis) vs. Verren FireStarter (whitebaron) is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14341471&postcount=1501) - Sucks to get a True strike Crited arrow up the a$$ I had a feeling I wouldn't like this one after I saw my opponents tactics. They were so vague that it was more or less up to the pitlord on what exactly went down- and no priorities...sigh. And Thorell just can't seem to get the dice to lie in his favor. He has yet to make a single saving throw in his career. *rolls eyes* @Templer No complaints here about ur job, though. When I decided not to use invisibility I knew there was a chance I'd go down- and I dunno that any reading of WB's tactics would have been "more right" (or even more in my favor) given the conflicting contingencies.
Macbrea 11-15-07, 03:11 PM	http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=cavern;a=Izum,L,19,22;b =Aqui,M,21,19;c=Elri,S,27,27;d=Wolf,H,28 ,30;e=Wolf,H,21,25;f=Wolf,H,24,26;style= s;opacity=90 This is the problem with huge dire wolves in that arena.
templer10 11-15-07, 03:17 PM	all i need is you blocked from getting to me- something big and wolfish seems to fit the Bill.... Hell if it works good - if not well ill deal.
Macbrea 11-15-07, 03:19 PM	Well, I guess we will see. If I am correct each wolf will last 1 round.
Callix 11-15-07, 03:43 PM	@telin: Tactics for Ralein and Gwerdan are away. What can I say? Soulknife + Monk vs incorporeal undead. Can't grapple, immune to Psychic Strike..... I think we found something that might work, but it's squarely in the hands of the dice gods.
Hirumajoe 11-15-07, 04:41 PM	What was the resolution of large creature moving provoking AoOs again? I.e. if the creature still occupies the same threatened space after the move? It makes a rather large difference in this fight.
McJarvis 11-15-07, 04:43 PM	What was the resolution of large creature moving provoking AoOs again? I.e. if the creature still occupies the same threatened space after the move? It makes a rather large difference in this fight. No further resolution was made- which means the previous "the whole creature has to actually leave a threatened space & not just be moving through it" one.
templer10 11-15-07, 04:44 PM	What was the resolution of large creature moving provoking AoOs again? I.e. if the creature still occupies the same threatened space after the move? It makes a rather large difference in this fight. beats me - But i wonder why isnt Elrick doing anything? And note you got the modifers wrong a little (i pmed u).
Turanson 11-15-07, 05:02 PM	@Vath: Tatic for mineau vs. dragon sent (not a nice monster roll :nonono:)
TelinArtho 11-15-07, 05:22 PM	Looks like i forgot about the silence thing and they forgot about freedom of movement and wall of thorns. p.s - How do you get over 3 huge dire wolves to get at the small halfling behind them? those should be some intresting AOA's... You know - I never knew that Animal Growth gave DR 10/magic... which I had seen that when I was working over tactics... Meh - I guess you live and learn.
templer10 11-15-07, 05:31 PM	You know - I never knew that Animal Growth gave DR 10/magic... which I had seen that when I was working over tactics... Meh - I guess you live and learn. I think Hirumajoe forgot it 2.
Taureus_Drakken 11-15-07, 05:59 PM	If the roll for the round under confusion says attack the caster, but the caster is dead, does the affected creature do anything? There's another enemy within LoS... ~Taureus~
Vathelokai 11-15-07, 06:01 PM	@Vath: Tatic for mineau vs. dragon sent (not a nice monster roll :nonono:) PM sent: need clarifications...
Hirumajoe 11-15-07, 06:04 PM	@Templer10, Telin: DR/Magic 10 you say... There goes round 9 *again*... Sigh. If anyone can figure out which rolls go with which let me know, because I sure can't seem to figure it out... (This will be the third attempt at the 2nd round of actual combat after having re-read the tactics and seen what is explicitly and not explicitly in there...) Edit: Although what thats going to do is push back Aquin and Izumi rushing... Which means Templer10 gets more time to get his two Flamestrike off, which will pretty much seal the fight (Aquin's save of 4+10 vs DC 21 isn't going to cut it when I get back to it in round 10 or 11...
Macbrea 11-15-07, 06:07 PM	Don't forget there is acid on that kusuri-gama by the way. For the first actual hit.
Hirumajoe 11-15-07, 06:12 PM	Don't forget there is acid on that kusuri-gama by the way. For the first actual hit. Oh, I got that, no problem. Its was the Focus I forgot, which is the extra 4d6 roll in round 8...
templer10 11-15-07, 06:13 PM	@Templer10, Telin: DR/Magic 10 you say... There goes round 9 *again*... Sigh. If anyone can figure out which rolls go with which let me know, because I sure can't seem to figure it out... (This will be the third attempt at the 2nd round of actual combat after having re-read the tactics and seen what is explicitly and not explicitly in there...) Edit: Although what thats going to do is push back Aquin and Izumi rushing... Which means Templer10 gets more time to get his two Flamestrike off, which will pretty much seal the fight (Aquin's save of 4+10 vs DC 21 isn't going to cut it when I get back to it in round 10 or 11... all the rolls are time stamped - just go by order of time. suggestion to the future - if your going to edit rounds with multiple rolls move them forward first to round 100 or so this way they are all already in order of time then you can move them back in the right order.
Hirumajoe 11-15-07, 06:15 PM	Thanks for the suggestion, and good point. Problem is the issue with modifiers and what not, but I'll see what I can do.
Erithmu 11-15-07, 06:19 PM	If the roll for the round under confusion says attack the caster, but the caster is dead, does the affected creature do anything? There's another enemy within LoS... ~Taureus~A confused character who can’t carry out the indicated action does nothing but babble incoherently. Babble ...
Taureus_Drakken 11-15-07, 06:21 PM	Thanks 'Rith! ~Taureus~
Erithmu 11-15-07, 06:28 PM	This coming from the guy who got hit w/ insanity as the party's only plane shift caster (arcanist). So the druid grappled me and pinned me ... then when I came to a round where I was ok ... they said "quick! read this!" (This = planeshift scroll)
Hirumajoe 11-15-07, 06:53 PM	I think rounds 8 through 10 are now in order. Please let me know if there's any rolls that are out of order. Thanks. Also put up the first 10 rounds in this thread. Who would have thought failing to kill fang would increase the length of time the melee people stay up...
Hirumajoe 11-15-07, 07:30 PM	Aquin and Izumi vs Elrick is up here. Still need to rewards. Let me know if you see anything wrong.
Taureus_Drakken 11-15-07, 08:40 PM	I just got done editing Malik vs Kraegin. Here it is. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14328054&postcount=1492) I think I got rewards right this time. You add ally penalties after skill bonuses, correct? If I need to fix them *yet again* it won't be until tomorrow after work. ~Taureus~
hogarth 11-15-07, 08:42 PM	I just got done editing Malik vs Kraegin. Here it is. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14328054&postcount=1492) I think I got rewards right this time. You add ally penalties after skill bonuses, correct? No, you sum the bonuses and penalties together before applying anything (so a 25% bonus and a 25% penalty cancel out, for instance).
TelinArtho 11-15-07, 09:14 PM	There's some confusion about timing here (since it seems Kraegin's actions are before Malik's even though Malik's are listed first), but nothing major. The duration of Haste though should be 1 round/level - so it would've expired in round 10. Other than that - with the question answered about the rewards above - I am good with the fight. I will wait to edit according to Malik's comments if he has any.
Malither76 11-16-07, 02:49 AM	Fight looks ok, I know Malik needed to get lucky and have Kraigen fail a save, the rewards are way off. Malik should be at a +32.5% bonus. Kraigen should be at a +12.5% bonus + political career if he has it.
Turanson 11-16-07, 04:33 AM	PM sent: need clarifications... Clarifications sent Sorry for my overlook.
whitebaron 11-16-07, 06:07 AM	tactics received for 2 fights, missing for tzimosica vs verger. @t10: i saw the fight of verren - could you please link the setup from eamane? aside from that - i'd have called the same shots after i saw that he could actually close in - didn't think about the possibility of him actually using exp. retreat. and after all, only my dice killed. verren's not that deadly. but: off 2 energy missile we go. @telin: callix will send the fight for our interleague. @erithmu: i'll probably send the tactics for the team vs team battle. maybe lonewolf. but one thing's sure: we're going to be close to the tactics deadline, again. coordinating a 3pc team is not as easy as we thought at first.
hogarth 11-16-07, 06:55 AM	@erithmu: i'll probably send the tactics for the team vs team battle. maybe lonewolf. but one thing's sure: we're going to be close to the tactics deadline, again. coordinating a 3pc team is not as easy as we thought at first. @Erithmu: I have both halves of our tactics vs. the Vienna Anklebiters, so I'll send them out sometime today as well. Sorry they couldn't be earlier.
Erithmu 11-16-07, 08:13 AM	@Teams: Don't worry about it. If I get them both by tonight I'll probably start, but I have a little time tomorrow as I'm cooking a turkey. Cook time: 5 hrs ... yea ... little downtime there. :)
hogarth 11-16-07, 10:21 AM	@Teams: Don't worry about it. If I get them both by tonight I'll probably start, but I have a little time tomorrow as I'm cooking a turkey. Cook time: 5 hrs ... yea ... little downtime there. :) Tactics sent for T.E.D.S. Gobble gobble! :turkey:
TelinArtho 11-16-07, 11:27 AM	@telin: callix will send the fight for our interleague. Oh - I received them already - sorry didn't say as much though. Might get to it today - but most likely on Monday after I have seen my schedule for the day.
Taureus_Drakken 11-16-07, 11:33 AM	There's some confusion about timing here (since it seems Kraegin's actions are before Malik's even though Malik's are listed first), but nothing major. The duration of Haste though should be 1 round/level - so it would've expired in round 10. Other than that - with the question answered about the rewards above - I am good with the fight. I will wait to edit according to Malik's comments if he has any. As I said in my comment, the order of actions was mixed up; I copy and paste rounds from a template, and don't switch them around. I will make sure in the future to list actions by initiative, rather than by order of ease. I had when I first began pitlording, so I guess I should start doing it again. Not quite sure why I stopped in the first place :rolleyes: Fight looks ok, I know Malik needed to get lucky and have Kraigen fail a save, the rewards are way off. Malik should be at a +32.5% bonus. Kraigen should be at a +12.5% bonus + political career if he has it. I will fix this. It's always easy when you don't have to calculate rewards like tis, but it was good practice for the future; as I doubt I will get a fight higher than ECL 5 again (at least not assigned ;) ) for awhile. -EDIT- Rewards fixed. ~Taureus~
lonewolf 11-16-07, 12:56 PM	@Rith: Tactics for Wiener Wadlbeisser is sent.
Erithmu 11-16-07, 01:14 PM	@Rith: Tactics for Wiener Wadlbeisser is sent. Reply sent.
templer10 11-16-07, 02:09 PM	Wroth vs marius is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14351236&postcount=1502) - Grapple vs ego whip - the dice won.
McJarvis 11-16-07, 02:11 PM	Wroth vs marius is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14351236&postcount=1502) - Grapple vs ego whip - the dice won. I think I've heard the phrase "the dice wern't with you" more than anything else in the last few weeks. What gives with our dice roller?
whitebaron 11-16-07, 02:13 PM	feed it with bandwidth, and it might like you again. and yes: you had a very unlucky week.
McJarvis 11-16-07, 02:17 PM	feed it with bandwidth, and it might like you again. and yes: you had a very unlucky week. more like a couple of unlucky weeks. Thorell nearly lost his first fight due to a failed save, and since then hasn't rolled well at all. Marius hasn't really needed terribly good rolls to date. [touch attack+mounted combat is pretty reliable]
McJarvis 11-16-07, 02:23 PM	@Eluria: I honestly knew there was a chance of you going invis, but I couldn't think of a decent way to combat it other than having my horse run away from your scent. [and I hate running away just to wind down buffs]. Good job.
Taureus_Drakken 11-16-07, 11:06 PM	All tactics received for this weeks fights (the non-held-over ones ;)). I look to get things started tomorrow night at the soonest. ~Taureus~
Rauul 11-17-07, 03:59 AM	Graashnak Surrenders to Inzin Dar'ath... and desided to take a Rest from the Arena.. till Inzin and the teams Advance or retire.. He can be found in the Pubs... getting drunk and thrown out till further notice..
whitebaron 11-17-07, 08:11 AM	note to others: don't ever try to get in front of magic missiles rolled by me. you'll die. gortek vs ssassetar @rauul: kinda sorry. but i really like my d4.
Vathelokai 11-17-07, 09:10 AM	Mineau Guwango vs Bronze Dragon is completed.
Vathelokai 11-17-07, 09:46 AM	link to this weeks pairings LEVEL 3 FIGHTS Thorell Runesmith (McJarvis) vs. Verren FireStarter (whitebaron) : templer10 [Arena] [week 2] [Setup] [Fight] Mineau Guwango (Turanson) vs. Unknown Monster : Vathelokai [Arena] [Fight] The Needle (Eluria) vs. Durzulgor I (Durzulgor) : Rauul [Arena] Sylean'delues (bgt) vs. Shaela of the Rooftops (Callix) : McJarvis [Arena] LEVEL 4 FIGHTS Wroth Korthek (Eluria) vs. Marius (McJarvis) : templer10 [City] [Fight] Ssassetar (Nurlithion) vs. Gortek ChaoSlayer (Rauul) : whitebaron [Temple] [Fight] Kai Engel (Hirumajoe) vs. Quavein Siannodel (Nurlithion) : Taureus_Drakken [City] Tzimosica (Eamane) vs. Verger Stonewall (Ackermanus) : whitebaron [Forest] LEVEL 5 FIGHTS Ralein Dreamstriker (Callix) and Gwerdan "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) vs Varjo (Stormwind)ECL7 : TelinArtho [City] [Interleague] Darian Thorne (lonewolf) vs. Remnant (Vathelokai) : Taureus_Drakken [Temple] LEVEL 6 FIGHTS Wiener Wadlbeisser (Team) vs. The Eternal Dreamless Sleep (Team) : Erithmu [City] [Setup] [Fight] Graashnak Vruuurk (Rauul) vs. Inzin Dar'ath (waywreth) : Hirumajoe [Temple] LEVEL 7 FIGHTS Gakhnalak Strongjaw (MindWandererB) vs. Yorick (Macbrea) : Rauul [City] [week 2] [Fight] Kilor Mintolo (Salrantol) miniquests for Warmind Prestige Class Requirements: Rauul LEVEL 8 FIGHTS None LEVEL 9 FIGHTS Aquin (TelinArtho) and Izumi (Macbrea) vs Elrick Flamebrother (templer10)ECL11: Hirumajoe [Cavern] [Interleague] [Setup] [Fight] LEVEL 10 FIGHTS Malik of Black Robe (Malither76) vs. Kraegin (TelinArtho) : Taureus_Drakken [City] [holdover] LEVEL 11 FIGHTS None LEVEL 12 FIGHTS Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) vs. Unknown Monster : McJarvis [Sewer] [Setup] [Fight] Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs. Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) : whitebaron [Arena] LEVEL 13 FIGHTS None Pairings done by TelinArtho. Battles of Gladius http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Pfeil1.gif http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Zweikampf-klein.jpg
Vathelokai 11-17-07, 09:47 AM	@T10: please link setup for Thorrell vs Varren... [Setup] [Fight]
hogarth 11-17-07, 10:47 AM	Mineau Guwango vs Bronze Dragon is completed. Problem: Bronze dragon has 6 HD, which is too much for regular sleep. Having high know:arcana, Mineau would know that. Problem #2: Creatures with the "dragon" type are completely immune to magic sleep anyway.
Vathelokai 11-17-07, 12:12 PM	Problem #2: Creatures with the "dragon" type are completely immune to magic sleep anyway. Err... yeah, that's what I meant. :embarrass
Turanson 11-17-07, 05:44 PM	Mineau Guwango vs Bronze Dragon is completed. Thanks for the run Vath. The 82 on the monster roll just took my heart. even as a wyrmling a bronze dragon can inspire fear ;)
hogarth 11-18-07, 10:49 AM	@Erithmu: I'm interested to see why Snake-Eyes didn't get an attack of opportunity (with her 20' reach) in Round 8 of the team vs. team battle.
Hirumajoe 11-18-07, 10:59 AM	@Raul, Waywreth: I've put up the fight post, although with Rauul surrendering, not much of fight. It can be found here @Telin, Macbrea, Templer10: Final rewards for the Summoner vs the Melee is up here @McJarvis: So, want to at least let me know what Valen is up against? I'm really curious...
whitebaron 11-18-07, 11:01 AM	@Erithmu: I'm interested to see why Snake-Eyes didn't get an attack of opportunity (with her 20' reach) in Round 8 of the team vs. team battle. well. khamul is obviously in front of the group. - but still, i find your remark rude :(
hogarth 11-18-07, 11:20 AM	well. khamul is obviously in front of the group. - but still, i find your remark rude :( I was honestly just being curious. It's entirely possible there's a good reason.
whitebaron 11-18-07, 11:24 AM	I was honestly just being curious. It's entirely possible there's a good reason. sorry to go rough on you - but it did sound very offensive to me.
whitebaron 11-18-07, 01:11 PM	Baelin vs Kracknol is done. i'm quite unsure whether i've done everything correct with that lots of bonuses to attack and miss chances. additional notes: @Sauro: please state the amounts of power attack you want to do. i was supposing you wanted the max PA, but you never explicitly said so. i could have rolled 1d10 for the amount as well. @malither: sorry about that full defense. if it were +6, you'd gotten another shot.
templer10 11-18-07, 02:01 PM	Baelin vs Kracknol is done. i'm quite unsure whether i've done everything correct with that lots of bonuses to attack and miss chances. additional notes: @Sauro: please state the amounts of power attack you want to do. i was supposing you wanted the max PA, but you never explicitly said so. i could have rolled 1d10 for the amount as well. @malither: sorry about that full defense. if it were +6, you'd gotten another shot. Total defense IS +6 when you have 5 ranks in tumble.
whitebaron 11-18-07, 02:13 PM	this is why you should give rules references when you do things like that. but, on a side note: the second concealment-ignoring attack would then be the critical. - not much of better fortune for baelin.
Rauul 11-18-07, 03:06 PM	note to others: don't ever try to get in front of magic missiles rolled by me. you'll die. gortek vs ssassetar @rauul: kinda sorry. but i really like my d4. Just gives me another reason to buy a brooch...
Erithmu 11-18-07, 03:27 PM	@Erithmu: I'm interested to see why Snake-Eyes didn't get an attack of opportunity (with her 20' reach) in Round 8 of the team vs. team battle. Because there wasn't one provoked ... In seriousness ... there wasn't one provoked ... unless I'm forgetting something ... and I might cause I think I was making a turkey during that time. However, I have to play host this evening and my place needs cleaning, so I'll look at it later. Please hold comments till fight is posted.
SauroGrenom 11-18-07, 06:22 PM	Baelin vs Kracknol is done. i'm quite unsure whether i've done everything correct with that lots of bonuses to attack and miss chances. additional notes: @Sauro: please state the amounts of power attack you want to do. i was supposing you wanted the max PA, but you never explicitly said so. i could have rolled 1d10 for the amount as well. @malither: sorry about that full defense. if it were +6, you'd gotten another shot. It should be noted that touchsight effectively grants blindsight. With blindsight, Baelin's invisibility doesn't grant any concealment. Blindsense is a different matter since you still have concealment while invisible, but with touchsight there's no benefit to being invisible. So that's not going to change the battle, but it may be something to file away in your memory for future reference.
Eluria 11-18-07, 07:07 PM	@Eluria: I honestly knew there was a chance of you going invis, but I couldn't think of a decent way to combat it other than having my horse run away from your scent. [and I hate running away just to wind down buffs]. Good job. Thanks McJ for the comment, and T10 for the nice clean run. I'm glad you didn't have the horse run away from my scent - while clever, that would've been exceedingly painful! Out of curiousity (for McJ or anyone else), does having offensive prescience up REALLY at +2 to everything, including Egowhip damage? That seems insanely powerful. I can imagine a character with a dorje of off pres and a dorje of egowhip who does nothing but that, and would be deadly to almost everyone...
lonewolf 11-18-07, 07:22 PM	Out of curiousity (for McJ or anyone else), does having offensive prescience up REALLY at +2 to everything, including Egowhip damage? That seems insanely powerful. I can imagine a character with a dorje of off pres and a dorje of egowhip who does nothing but that, and would be deadly to almost everyone... This fight resulted in a discussion about this in the courtroom. There is no final decision yet, but almost everyone agrees that at least ability damage shouldnt be affected by offensive prescience.
Eamane 11-18-07, 07:49 PM	This fight resulted in a discussion about this in the courtroom. There is no final decision yet, but almost everyone agrees that at least ability damage shouldnt be affected by offensive prescience. Minor correction; there is a consensus of three elders that it should 1. require an attack roll and 2. only affects hp damage. The debate is more or less over, so for all future fights that is the ruling that should be used.
Vathelokai 11-19-07, 12:09 AM	Minor correction; there is a consensus of three elders that it should 1. require an attack roll and 2. only affects hp damage. The debate is more or less over, so for all future fights that is the ruling that should be used. Correct.
mucki 11-19-07, 05:53 AM	@Erithmu: I'm interested to see why Snake-Eyes didn't get an attack of opportunity (with her 20' reach) in Round 8 of the team vs. team battle. Is there a way to preview half-finished fights that I haven't found yet, or has erithmu taken it down again ? When i go to our fight post all it shows is "Not yet." :confused: --edit BTW: Nice tactics, I am anxious to see how that works out.
lonewolf 11-19-07, 06:08 AM	Is there a way to preview half-finished fights that I haven't found yet, or has erithmu taken it down again ? When i go to our fight post all it shows is "Not yet." :confused: --edit BTW: Nice tactics, I am anxious to see how that works out. you can look at the rolls on the CoCo roller. It doesnt tell you everything, but its save to assume that Snake Eyes didnt survive the 54 damage crit from Khamul. :)
mucki 11-19-07, 06:27 AM	you can look at the rolls on the CoCo roller. It doesnt tell you everything, but its save to assume that Snake Eyes didnt survive the 54 damage crit from Khamul. :) <UT Voice> Headshot!</UT Voice> :D:D:D Well, i didn't see a link to the roller yet, and I did not go look for a session concerning our fight.
Erithmu 11-19-07, 10:18 AM	WW vs TEDS I have reached an impasse ... Your welcome to critique the fight so far, but I will not accept any extrapolation on tactics of how to proceed. I'll take two votes from WW before I post official.
waywreth 11-19-07, 10:20 AM	Due to the US Thanksgiving holiday this week, will there be pairings this Wed?
lonewolf 11-19-07, 10:32 AM	WW vs TEDS I have reached an impasse ... Your welcome to critique the fight so far, but I will not accept any extrapolation on tactics of how to proceed. I'll take two votes from WW before I post official. I dont have much time at the moment, but why didnt Khamul take Snake Eyes Dorje of Vigor and use it? That one should lead to Merciful killers wand going out of charges long before Khamul dies.
hogarth 11-19-07, 10:33 AM	WW vs TEDS I have reached an impasse ... Your welcome to critique the fight so far, but I will not accept any extrapolation on tactics of how to proceed. I'll take two votes from WW before I post official. Thanks for the AoO in round 8. :) One question: do dead bodies disappear from the battlefield like that? Frankly, I thought TEDS would be forced to surrender once I saw the plan to take Snake-Eyes's dorje of Vigor after she died. EDIT: Ninja'ed by lonewolf.
Erithmu 11-19-07, 10:35 AM	Thanks for the AoO in round 8. :) One question: do dead bodies disappear from the battlefield like that? Frankly, I thought TEDS would be forced to surrender once I saw the plan to take Snake-Eyes's dorje of Vigor after she died. It is in our definition of 'defeated' as discussed in the courtroom. I thought about having Telin search through the archives for a conversation we had about command word/thoughts ... that other people didn't know them thus needed UMD to activate another person's wands/djores/staves/etc. I can't remember what the result was. EDIT: Err council not courtroom
lonewolf 11-19-07, 10:39 AM	It is in our definition of 'defeated' as discussed in the courtroom. I thought about having Telin search through the archives for a conversation we had about command word/thoughts ... that other people didn't know them thus needed UMD to activate another person's wands/djores/staves/etc. I can't remember what the result was. I remember. The result was that everyone is assumed to know every command word of his enemies items.
McJarvis 11-19-07, 10:39 AM	It is in our definition of 'defeated' as discussed in the courtroom. I'd imagine I'd be pretty upset if I wasn't allowed to take a dorjes off of a dead teammate. [or draw something stored on a dead horse] I dunno if that has any bearing on this, though.
hogarth 11-19-07, 10:40 AM	It is in our definition of 'defeated' as discussed in the courtroom. I thought about having Telin search through the archives for a conversation we had about command word/thoughts ... that other people didn't know them thus needed UMD to activate another person's wands/djores/staves/etc. I can't remember what the result was. I guess the question is whether the entire team needs to be defeated or if it's enough to defeat individual members of the team. Dorjes and other spell/power trigger devices are usable by anyone, I think. From the SRD: "Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell." Activating other magic items (like a Bronze Griffon, say) is debatable, though.
Erithmu 11-19-07, 10:42 AM	I'd imagine I'd be pretty upset if I wasn't allowed to take a dorjes off of a dead teammate. [or draw something stored on a dead horse] I dunno if that has any bearing on this, though. This was more of a case of ... using the other team's djores
McJarvis 11-19-07, 10:44 AM	This was more of a case of ... using the other team's djores Right- but if an ally can use a dead teammates stuff than an enemy can too.
Erithmu 11-19-07, 10:52 AM	I guess the question is whether the entire team needs to be defeated or if it's enough to defeat individual members of the team. While I think it was done to mostly be for Allies (leadership), It could be read for whatever PC/Ally dies. I think I'll ask for a few more 'neutral' opinions on this. @Hogarth: If they come back and WW does pick up the djore ... do you want to surrender? @WW: If they come back w/ the situation I reached do you want to surrender?
hogarth 11-19-07, 10:56 AM	While I think it was done to mostly be for Allies (leadership), It could be read for whatever PC/Ally dies. I think I'll ask for a couple of 'neutral' opinions on this. @Hogarth: If they come back and WW does pick up the djore ... do you want to surrender? If it's Merciful Killer's wand of MM vs. an almost fully charged wand of CLW and an almost fully charged dorje of Vigor, I think there's no chance of winning. MK is not my character, though, so I'll defer to templer10's opinion.
Erithmu 11-19-07, 11:07 AM	If it's Merciful Killer's wand of MM vs. an almost fully charged wand of CLW and an almost fully charged dorje of Vigor, I think there's no chance of winning. MK is not my character, though, so I'll defer to templer10's opinion. I thought T10 was gone most of the week or does he get back on like Tues? Edit: Yea .. he is gone till Wednesday so your speaking on behalf of the team
hogarth 11-19-07, 11:12 AM	I thought T10 was gone most of the week or does he get back on like Tues? Edit: Yea .. he is gone till Wednesday so your speaking on behalf of the team In that case, we would resign (no point wasting a whole wand of MM [max damage 10/charge] vs. a dorje of Vigor [+10 hp/charge]).
lonewolf 11-19-07, 11:25 AM	@WW: If they come back w/ the situation I reached do you want to surrender? If you decide that we cannot use the dorje(a decision I would very much disagree with), I would have to consult with my teammembers, but personally, I would like crucio to stop using the healing wand and have MK use enough MM charges to kill Khamul & Crucio. No reason to give out freebees.
whitebaron 11-19-07, 11:35 AM	if this was an interleague, i'd say - ok, dead participants are removed. but it isn't. it's team vs team. team selects equipment based on synergy, does characters based on synergy. if crucio dies, does his bless go away? his bull strength cast - if not, why should his items? if so, i want my credits spent back. he's likely the first one to die, maybe the second. if he and all his things are removed, his spells should be removed too. which makes a buffing cleric/mage useless for a team.
Erithmu 11-19-07, 11:40 AM	Oh ... I'm not saying that the buffs would go away, I'm saying that equipment would disappear. You normally set your equipment where it needs to be anyways. But I digress ... Can I get some other opinions on this matter. I think those involved have spoken the majority of what they want to say.
lonewolf 11-19-07, 11:43 AM	if this was an interleague, i'd say - ok, dead participants are removed. but it isn't. it's team vs team. team selects equipment based on synergy, does characters based on synergy. if crucio dies, does his bless go away? his bull strength cast - if not, why should his items? if so, i want my credits spent back. he's likely the first one to die, maybe the second. if he and all his things are removed, his spells should be removed too. which makes a buffing cleric/mage useless for a team. I disagree on one thing: I dont think interleagues should be handled differently. In both cases should all spells, items and allies remain in the arena until all the PCs of the team are dead. And btw: I remember very well one FFA where a rogue killed one guy first and used that guys wand of CLW for the rest of the fight extensively even after the owner of the wand was dead. Has there been a change of rules about that since then?
hogarth 11-19-07, 11:47 AM	Oh ... I'm not saying that the buffs would go away, I'm saying that equipment would disappear. You normally set your equipment where it needs to be anyways. But not always. Note, for instance, that Crucio is wearing a chain shirt that's owned by Falko. Does that disappear, too?
Erithmu 11-19-07, 11:57 AM	I've said my piece ... now I need others input ... @WW & TEDS (except for T10 if he logs on somehow): I'm not going to respond to any more stuff till I get some feedback from other people who have not made comment.
TelinArtho 11-19-07, 12:09 PM	Well, I know for certain using someone else's equipment has been done before - but in those cases it was the only wand that the person had. I believe the discussion was that you don't know exactly which wand it is without more information (watching the person using it on you for instance). I wouldn't make teammates disappear as they are killed off - but I would remove their allies (and likewise - their allies' equipment).
whitebaron 11-19-07, 12:23 PM	But not always. Note, for instance, that Crucio is wearing a chain shirt that's owned by Falko. Does that disappear, too? well, at least our opponent is of our oppinion. small victory, even if it might not be our fight to take - awaiting decisions from "elsewhere"
mucki 11-19-07, 12:26 PM	Whatever the final result, it will serve as a good reminder to put a line in khamuls/teams default tactics to use backup weapons. Khamul has a bow after all, so he would not need to run as fast. PS: I think you are right not to use the bow. It's not in the tactics, and although it is "obvious" it would be unfair since we now know the situation we are in.
McJarvis 11-19-07, 02:25 PM	Valen Vs Monster is up- but I am uncertain about the outcome. Do the walls of the sewers give off shadows? The description under normal light says that obstacles do: but I wasn't sure about the walls of the sewers.
Hirumajoe 11-19-07, 02:43 PM	Hmm... Valen's tactics were written assuming they do. If walls aren't obstacles, I'll have to remember to move through them next time, since they clearly don't obstruct anything. But seriously, with that interpretation, the only obstacles are the grates I guess. In that case, I would have sent much different tactics, since hiding is pointless. I'm obviously biased, and also didn't write the lighting rules, so I wouldn't mind a Elder chiming in. Edit: I do see where you're coming from, and apologize for the bad joke. But in this case, the walls are physical objects, as opposed to say, the edges of the plains map, so I would tend to classify them as on the map and thus obstacles. Ghosts and Earth Elementals can clearly go through them, while others can't. That feels like the definition of an obstacle, as opposed to the rules preventing people from leaving the map (say).
TelinArtho 11-19-07, 02:47 PM	Valen Vs Monster is up- but I am uncertain about the outcome. Do the walls of the sewers give off shadows? The description under normal light says that obstacles do: but I wasn't sure about the walls of the sewers. Yes - the walls should be providing shadows.
McJarvis 11-19-07, 02:48 PM	Hmm... Valen's tactics were written assuming they do. If walls aren't obstacles, I'll have to remember to move through them next time, since they clearly don't obstruct anything. But seriously, with that interpretation, the only obstacles are the grates I guess. In that case, I would have sent much different tactics, since hiding is pointless. I'm obviously biased, and also didn't write the lighting rules, so I wouldn't mind a Elder chiming in. Edit: I do see where you're coming from, and apologize for the bad joke. But in this case, the walls are physical objects, as opposed to say, the edges of the plains map, so I would tend to classify them as on the map and thus obstacles. Ghosts and Earth Elementals can clearly go through them, while others can't. That feels like the definition of an obstacle, as opposed to the rules preventing people from leaving the map (say). Yeah- an elder chiming in would be nice. It seemed like a strange way of phrasing where shadows lie to me. And an Elder speaks! I'll go revise the fight. Hopefully it isn't as one sided this time...
Hirumajoe 11-19-07, 02:56 PM	@McJarvis: Thanks. Also another important note. Since Psychic Warriors only get 2 + Int mod skills per level, its impossible for the Hound Archon to have maxed Concentration, Spot and Listen, since neither spot nor listen are class skills for a Psychic Warrior (they are for the hound archon though). If you're using a +19 modifier for the Hound Archon's listen check, that means its spot can only be 9 ranks + 2 Wisdom or +11. Just letting you know. :) Edit: Also, its scent ability should work fine though. Unless the sewers are defined to have an overpowering smell. Which they might given that they are in fact, sewers... :)
McJarvis 11-19-07, 03:15 PM	Alright, I redid it using scent instead of spot. you lasted an extra round thanks to concealment, but that PA/deep impact combo was too nasty to take on unbuffed and in a close-combat environment like the sewers.
Hirumajoe 11-19-07, 03:20 PM	Just out of curiosity, instead of move/attacking, why not attack/move? Simply manifest the crystal shard on the defensive, auto-passing since its 1st level, and then move and hide? That would get Valen a very strong chance (or auto-success if he moves at half speed, i.e. 15') to hide each round, at least forcing a concealment check for each attack on the Hound Archon's part. Edit: Actually 2 concealment checks generally, once to trip, then once to actually hit with the followup. Other than that, yeah, looks pretty much done. Thanks for the run.
McJarvis 11-19-07, 03:22 PM	Just out of curiosity, instead of move/attacking, attack/move? Simply manifest the crystal shard on the defensive, auto-passing since its 1st level, and then move and hide? That would get Valen a very strong chance (or auto-success if he moves at half speed, i.e. 15') to hide each round, at least forcing a concealment check for each attack on the Hound Archon's part. Other than that, yeah, looks pretty much done. Thanks for the run. I'm willing to give you that. I'll throw in some more concealment checks when I go for coffee tonight. [I'm so met when I have my macbook & do CoCo while sipping warm beverages B-)]
TelinArtho 11-19-07, 03:25 PM	Just to those who are involved - I haven't forgotten about the fight I have to run, I just haven't had the time for it yet. Very busy for me this week, so it will likely be late. If someone is intrepid and wants to volunteer for it - I'll post up the tactics when I get the chance.
Hirumajoe 11-19-07, 03:43 PM	I'm willing to give you that. I'll throw in some more concealment checks when I go for coffee tonight. [I'm so met when I have my macbook & do CoCo while sipping warm beverages B-)] Thanks. I don't expect it to change much, unless Valen pulls off an above average crit, I don't think he's got enough oomph left to take him down. Although wait, he didn't finish his pre-buff... Which means he's got a spare 9 pp. So maybe he can do it without a crit. Assuming the d6's and co-operate and actually give me an average of 3.5 rather than 2.6... Hmm. 75 damage on 16d6 is 4 average. About a 10% chance for that. So can Valen evade for 3 more turns (a 1 in 8 chance) and roll up to a 1 in 10 chance of damage. So at this point in time I predict a 1 in 80 chance of victory for Valen, given the known parameters.
whitebaron 11-19-07, 05:19 PM	Tzim vs Verger - or: never trust players when they tell it will be "easy" or quick - is up
mucki 11-19-07, 05:32 PM	I don't know if it changes the fight, but delay penalty does reset when you attack someone or make an offensive action, so since they were just fighting it would not kick in in round 25 i think.
McJarvis 11-19-07, 05:50 PM	Thanks. I don't expect it to change much, unless Valen pulls off an above average crit, I don't think he's got enough oomph left to take him down. Although wait, he didn't finish his pre-buff... Which means he's got a spare 9 pp. So maybe he can do it without a crit. Assuming the d6's and co-operate and actually give me an average of 3.5 rather than 2.6... Hmm. 75 damage on 16d6 is 4 average. About a 10% chance for that. So can Valen evade for 3 more turns (a 1 in 8 chance) and roll up to a 1 in 10 chance of damage. So at this point in time I predict a 1 in 80 chance of victory for Valen, given the known parameters. Just realized that you would provoke an AoO every time you attack/moved & it wouldn't change the outcome. ?
Hirumajoe 11-19-07, 05:52 PM	There are no AoOs if your opponent has total concealment, as far as I know. So if he succeeds on the Hide check, then he has total concealment as he moves out of the square. And defensive casting prevents the AoO from both manifesting and the fact that its a ranged weapon in a threatened square. From SRD: You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.
McJarvis 11-19-07, 06:08 PM	There are no AoOs if your opponent has total concealment, as far as I know. So if he succeeds on the Hide check, then he has total concealment as he moves out of the square. And defensive casting prevents the AoO from both manifesting and the fact that its a ranged weapon in a threatened square. From SRD: You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies. Once you attack you won't have concealment.
Hirumajoe 11-19-07, 07:45 PM	Once you attack you won't have concealment. Hide in plain sight allows you to hide without concealment and while being observed. I assume he gains total concealment at the begining of his move action (after he's manifested and attacked the Archon) if he successfully hides. This is why it has to be in the order stated: Attack (lose concealment - no AoO during casting because of manifesting defensively) then Move (gaining total concealment before even leaving the square - assuming he successfully hides). As long as he has total concealment at the moment the AoO would be triggered, he avoids it. Or does being successfully hidden not actually provide total concealment? I could see that being a problem, but in that case, you wouldn't have needed to make the initial miss chance roll you did. If you look at the spring attack and hide in plain sight example in the 3.5 edition (or was it 3.0 edition) faq, there are 3 hide checks that are made. One on the initial approach, one for the actual attack, and a third for the movement away. Basically, its an option open to Hide in Plain sight enabled people. Make an attack while visible (triggering whatever readied actions your opponent might have to attack on sight, at no miss chance) and *then* hide, gaining total concealment and moving as normal with rest of your move, without the -20 penalty to hide I might add. Since you're not trying to be hidden *while* attacking. I think this is the way it works. Although its possible my understanding is off.
McJarvis 11-20-07, 08:52 AM	I think this is the way it works. Although its possible my understanding is off. It's equally likely that my understanding is off- I've never worked with hide in plain sight before. Normally you couldn't hide before leaving a square... If an elder could chime in that'd be super fandastic.
TelinArtho 11-20-07, 10:30 AM	@mcJ and Hiruma - this is specifically mentioned in the FAQ for the HiPS ability. As long as Valen has a shadow - he can effectively hide (before moving) and move away safely.
templer10 11-20-07, 11:07 AM	I've said my piece ... now I need others input ... @WW & TEDS (except for T10 if he logs on somehow): I'm not going to respond to any more stuff till I get some feedback from other people who have not made comment. Hey - got back early - I asked the question before about inter leagues and such and was told that assuming there is a 2 person team - if one of the members is killed/below 0 and the partner doesnt have any way to bring him back that person and all his gear is gone, if there teammate HAS a way to bring them back, the teammate stays, So in this case since MK can't bring SE back when he die he goes Bybe bye, when one of the members of the other team gots to 0-9- if crucio is still up that dying teammate isnt gone before he goes to -10. about GEar held by someone else - i would say it stays with whoever brought it to the fight so if you want to use someone's else gear take it before he dies. On another note - personally i don't like it when People use the opponent's Items against them - especially CHARGED items that every charge cost Cash, if you want that item so much - go spend your own Gold on it. RITH - if you decide khamul can use SE's dorja you can surrender. IF he can't and it comes to that - start rolling those 2d4+2's...
hogarth 11-20-07, 11:37 AM	On another note - personally i don't like it when People use the opponent's Items against them - especially CHARGED items that every charge cost Cash, if you want that item so much - go spend your own Gold on it. I think it's clever to use an enemy's stuff against him. Note that because of CoCo house rules ("the Nimbus") charges used by an enemy are returned at the end of the fight so there's no permanent harm.
lonewolf 11-20-07, 11:40 AM	On another note - personally i don't like it when People use the opponent's Items against them - especially CHARGED items that every charge cost Cash, if you want that item so much - go spend your own Gold on it. You know that every charge of the dorje Khamul uses will not count as beeing used, right? All those charges are beeing refunded. At least that was how it was handled back then. Edit: ninja´d
templer10 11-20-07, 11:51 AM	I think it's clever to use an enemy's stuff against him. Note that because of CoCo house rules ("the Nimbus") charges used by an enemy are returned at the end of the fight so there's no permanent harm. Didnt know that
lonewolf 11-20-07, 11:55 AM	I think it's clever to use an enemy's stuff against him. Note that because of CoCo house rules ("the Nimbus") charges used by an enemy are returned at the end of the fight so there's no permanent harm. Come to think about it, why would such a rule exist if someones equipment would vanish the moment he is defeated? Yeah I know, you could disarm, or stun someone and take the wand, but most of the time you will have to kill someone to take their stuff. *shrug*
whitebaron 11-20-07, 12:11 PM	this is how i see it: if your ally dies, do his buffs get away? his negative impacts on opponents? his equipment worn by or swapped to other team mates? for the sake of team synergy, all of those should be answered: "no". and if all of those are answered "no", i can't see any reason why it should be different with any other equipment.
templer10 11-20-07, 12:16 PM	this is how i see it: if your ally dies, do his buffs get away? his negative impacts on opponents? his equipment worn by or swapped to other team mates? for the sake of team synergy, all of those should be answered: "no". and if all of those are answered "no", i can't see any reason why it should be different with any other equipment. Iam not arguing that buffs that are already casted are gone or Gear already swapped is gone - keep all the buffs and all the gear you swapped prior to the death. All iam saying is that the dead body of a dead teammate disappear's so if you didnt take anything from it before he died (willingly or otherwise) You can't take anything of it after it's gone.
hogarth 11-20-07, 12:17 PM	Come to think about it, why would such a rule exist if someones equipment would vanish the moment he is defeated? I think some of it is to prevent character A from rendering character B helpless and then using up all of his expendables out of spite. Templer10: Can you find the post where it said that teammates disappear once they can't be resuscitated? If there's a precedent, that carries much more weight than gormless speculation.
whitebaron 11-20-07, 12:27 PM	Iam not arguing that buffs that are already casted are gone or Gear already swapped is gone - keep all the buffs and all the gear you swapped prior to the death. All iam saying is that the dead body of a dead teammate disappear's so if you didnt take anything from it before he died (willingly or otherwise) You can't take anything of it after it's gone. yes, you are not arguing that they should stay - but my reasoning is, that you should not handle different things differently if they are so closely related. if buff stays, everything stays. if anything goes, everything goes. in "my ideal coco" no dead body would vanish until after the fight. it just doesnt fit into my idea of imps cleaning up after the fight for next week's gore. i can give an example from the FFA i did last week: the cleric casts doom(or any another debuff), and vanishes soon after. the victim suffers this until the end of the fight, but has absolutely no method to offset this, even though he already defeated the caster. @post: i'd be very much interested to see that, too. it can neither be an official ruling nor a court decision, so it has to be somewhere in any of the FOTW or the tavern.
templer10 11-20-07, 12:31 PM	I think some of it is to prevent character A from rendering character B helpless and then using up all of his expendables out of spite. Templer10: Can you find the post where it said that teammates disappear once they can't be resuscitated? If there's a precedent, that carries much more weight than gormless speculation. In was an inter league i pitlorded a while ago - arden Vs Balthazar and Gakhnalak - done at 10.09.07 - here's one for obsssive compulsve record keeping. Now to find the tavern and/or FOTW thread...
templer10 11-20-07, 12:37 PM	Found it - start at post 1941 in the current tavern: errm- question - in a normal fight - if you die your allies are removed from the arena- what happens in an inter league- unexpectedly -it became an issue - stupid 1 on a will save... Answered by: Linky Without knowing many of the details, if the ally can bring the PC back to life. .. it stays, if not they leave To clarify, I think templer10 is asking: "In a team battle, if one team member is dead, does his ally disappear immediately or can the ally still help the surviving team member?" I'm not sure what the answer is. From the way it's written, it looks like it doesn't matter whether the character is part of a team or not. Too bad for Balthazar, if that's the case. ;) Once the main PC is dead, the allies of the PC are removed. Doesn't matter if that PC is a part of a team or not - the allies are removed the instant the PC ceases to be a part of the fight. The end conclusion is fairly clear - and it also affected the result of that fight if i remmber correctly.
lonewolf 11-20-07, 12:48 PM	while interesting, this doesnt really concern the question at hand. It answers if Snake Eyes horse should be removed or not, but not if his equipment should be.
templer10 11-20-07, 12:56 PM	while interesting, this doesnt really concern the question at hand. It answers if Snake Eyes horse should be removed or not, but not if his equipment should be. Ill leave it up to Rith - but i think you are really splitting hairs here - if an ally- a much more significant asset is removed i would say that ally's Armor (or in this case dorja) is removed.
lonewolf 11-20-07, 01:00 PM	I´ve started looking through the fight archive to find the FFA I was refering to and found it: Death vs. Tan vs. Danidus vs. Loddick setup fight Tan used Danidus wand of CLW to heal himself and both his riding dogs continally during the fight which made him win. And he did that long after Dandius was dead. Now I know that this fight is 1.5 years old, but I dont think that any rule about this has been changed since then.
whitebaron 11-20-07, 01:01 PM	well the ally could possibly still inflict damage, or give one side an unfair advantage. or even worse, it could die while doing so, giving the player absolutely no win, as allies can't win on their own, but only the risk that his cohort etc might be dead.
templer10 11-20-07, 01:05 PM	I´ve started looking through the fight archive to find the FFA I was refering to and found it: Death vs. Tan vs. Danidus vs. Loddick setup fight Tan used Danidus wand of CLW to heal himself and both his riding dogs continally during the fight which made him win. And he did that long after Dandius was dead. Now I know that this fight is 1.5 years old, but I dont think that any rule about this has been changed since then. actually it was since the current rule about allies was clarified when the defeniton of "defeated" was changed.
lonewolf 11-20-07, 01:13 PM	I fail to see how this change should affect the equipment. Dandius was defeated and his wand stayed behind. Snake Eyes was defeated and his dorje should stay behind. The definition of beeing defeated may be a bit different, but that shouldnt affect the equipment. The rule change is that even if you are unconcious but still living and unable to come back even with the help of your allies you are considered defeated and your allies cannot win the fight for you and are thus removed. The intention of this rule change was not to make using someone elses items impossible. The intention of this rule change was not to allow someones allies to win the fight after the PC has been brought below 0 hp.
hogarth 11-20-07, 01:23 PM	The intention of this rule change was not to make using someone elses items impossible. The intention of this rule change was not to allow someones allies to win the fight after the PC has been brought below 0 hp. Can we take this discussion to the Courtroom thread, please? I think it should get an Elder vote; arguing about it here is mostly pointless.
Hirumajoe 11-20-07, 02:31 PM	@mcJ and Hiruma - this is specifically mentioned in the FAQ for the HiPS ability. As long as Valen has a shadow - he can effectively hide (before moving) and move away safely. Thanks for the confirmation. If it didn't work this way, Valen would probably need a re-work. The idea being he saves actions by not needing a ring of invisibility or similar item and can just disappear with a move action, rather than a standard one.
McJarvis 11-20-07, 02:51 PM	Thanks for the confirmation. If it didn't work this way, Valen would probably need a re-work. The idea being he saves actions by not needing a ring of invisibility or similar item and can just disappear with a move action, rather than a standard one. Given the lack of pairings this week- I'm assuming normal deadlines are off. This is convenient since I was in meetings all day[cutting into my normal CoCo time.] [Not as bad as it sounds- I actually do a fair bit of work when I'm home and focused...]
Taureus_Drakken 11-20-07, 03:40 PM	@ McJ: So that means we have an extension to finish fights? I have been having difficulties with making (and remaking numerous times) the maps for one of my fights...I would just scrap them, but it's better to have reference as I write up the round-by-round actions. ~Taureus~
McJarvis 11-20-07, 03:58 PM	@ McJ: So that means we have an extension to finish fights? I have been having difficulties with making (and remaking numerous times) the maps for one of my fights...I would just scrap them, but it's better to have reference as I write up the round-by-round actions. ~Taureus~ I'm not sure if it's an official extension- but I don't really see things in "credits vs lack of credits" ways. If we have a week off- then I'm not hurting anyone by waiting until tonight to get things done. If having a few creds taken away is the only downside of me being late this week(as opposed to the usual clunkyness it causes in the system)- then I'm all for being late.
whitebaron 11-20-07, 04:09 PM	well, even if there are no pairings this week, your fight will still be called late. it is already late now. it'll only be called missing though, if it does not turn up before the next pairings, which are likely to be next week. (and as it stands, many people would welcome that)
McJarvis 11-20-07, 04:36 PM	well, even if there are no pairings this week, your fight will still be called late. it is already late now. it'll only be called missing though, if it does not turn up before the next pairings, which are likely to be next week. (and as it stands, many people would welcome that) Heh- that's hardly your call, now isn't it? As I've pointed out many times in the past- such rules stickyness is unneeded and acidic to a healthy atmosphere in CoCo. I trust MWB to delay the effective deadline in this case- and if he doesn't I'll gladly take the "punishment" for this non-crime. (I mean, geez- it's not like their is a penalty for missing the pairings. No harm no foul, I say)
whitebaron 11-20-07, 04:49 PM	Heh- that's hardly your call, now isn't it? As I've pointed out many times in the past- such rules stickyness is unneeded and acidic to a healthy atmosphere in CoCo. I trust MWB to delay the effective deadline in this case- and if he doesn't I'll gladly take the "punishment" for this non-crime. (I mean, geez- it's not like their is a penalty for missing the pairings. No harm no foul, I say) rules are there for a reason. if you are lenient on practicing those penalties (see rauuls case, poor rauul) noone will take them any serious. if rules are not serious, you cannot expect things to work. it's like the pirates code in pirates of the carribbean - it just doesn't work, since nobody actually uses it as intended. and yes, it's not my call, but this is how i figure it was implemented last time.
McJarvis 11-20-07, 04:52 PM	rules are there for a reason. if you are lenient on practicing those penalties (see rauuls case, poor rauul) noone will take them any serious. if rules are not serious, you cannot expect things to work. it's like the pirates code in pirates of the carribbean - it just doesn't work, since nobody actually uses it as intended. Yeah, but you're not talking about using them as intended. They are intended to dissuade people from posting late tuesday night with fight results, and therefore causing the GM and players more headaches trying to ready for the following wednesday. [this I have no problem with]. But there are no pairings tomorrow. In the past the deadlines have been pushed back. If you enforce rules for no reason other than the sake of rules, then you're just [being unnecessarily harsh] EDIT(by WizO): Baiting is against the code of conduct. Even silly names can hurt sometimes. Fight your characters, not each other. EDIT(By McJ)- the edit by WizO just made it look like what I actually said was really bad. My original language involved no profanity and was an equivalent to what I've edited in above. I double-edited because "poopy head" somehow seems improper for this setting. It also made it look like I was being overtly hostile in my original post- which I [i]wasn't.
lonewolf 11-20-07, 04:56 PM	relax people please. And McJarvis, I believe that last sentence violates Code of Conduct and you should remove it lets just have MWB make the decision and stop arguing.
Taureus_Drakken 11-20-07, 05:04 PM	MWB already said he wasn't going to be able to do pairings this week, and that Telin was going to have to get them done. And Telin said he wasn't going to have time to get them done due to some RL happenings. I would take this to mean there will most likely be an extension for the rest of this weeks fights. We will see what whoever is the highest authority this week says. ~Taureus~
whitebaron 11-20-07, 05:08 PM	the problem is, until about 1-2 hours ago, nobody knew that there would be no pairings. i see late fights like a broken promise. i don't care about credit penalties, but they are there for a reason - promises wouldn't hold even as good without those rules. When you step up for pitlording, you basically say "i'm up for this, i can make it this weekend/monday/tuesday". people trust in you. if you finish late, you've broken this. the reasons behind this might be perfectly normal and acceptable - still, there's a cut. @mcj: if people run out of arguments, and start flaming, this is not a sign of maturity. --- i just was notified that telin said yesterday already that he'll not be able to make pairings. in that case, disregard my previous statement concerning penalties.
WizO_Autumn 11-20-07, 07:41 PM	Name calling out of game is baiting and against the code of conduct. I've edited a post, but in general, let's keep it all about fighting characters, not each other.
Vathelokai 11-20-07, 07:44 PM	On another note... This (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=2112) is one quick fight...
lonewolf 11-20-07, 07:46 PM	*bows* thanks :)
Taureus_Drakken 11-20-07, 08:38 PM	Darian vs Remnant is up here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14386721&postcount=1510) @ Vath: I hope you aren't upset about moving into range of a power...If not in the second round, it would have happened in a later round. Readied actions are killer in this sense. Kai vs Quavein is up here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14387072&postcount=1511) Lucky crit ended that one. Questions? Comments? ~Taureus~
Hirumajoe 11-20-07, 09:38 PM	@Taureus: Thanks for the run. Just a note, enlarged projectile weapons deal damage based on the size of the launcher. Technically the last critical should have done 6d6+9 damage, not 3d8+9 damage. However, given it still dropped him, I'm content to let the smaller damage stand. :) In regards to the comments, if he did start using the CLW wand, Kai would have been able to catch up (double move vs wand + move) and eventually sunder the thing. But I guess the dice roller took pity after the first natural 1. @Nurthilion: Ouch... Sorry about the ASF on that Cat's Grace scroll. I think you just spent more money on expendables then you made on the fight...
McJarvis 11-20-07, 09:48 PM	Hmmm. I didn't think I was calling anyone in particular names(that was a pretty tame word I used, AND it wasn't being used against any particular forum member, AND it was a proper description of anyone imposing rules & regulations without a good reason)- but I guess I'll just take a back seat from here on out...I didn't realize CoCo discussions were policed in such a fashion nowadays. I'm a bit out of sorts now. Expect my fights by the weekend. [probably the late weekend. I'm going to be away from my computers for a few days due to family coming into town]
Vathelokai 11-20-07, 10:44 PM	Darian vs Remnant is up here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14386721&postcount=1510) @ Vath: I hope you aren't upset about moving into range of a power...If not in the second round, it would have happened in a later round. Readied actions are killer in this sense. Kai vs Quavein is up here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14387072&postcount=1511) Lucky crit ended that one. Questions? Comments? ~Taureus~ No problems on the movement; that's rather what I expected. However; Defensive precognition isn't an instant power (like empty mind). I would have to manifest it like normal in round 1. If you're feeling generous, please use that in round one, and not use the scroll of expiditious retreat at all (would save me a few bucks).
Taureus_Drakken 11-20-07, 10:58 PM	@Taureus: Thanks for the run. Just a note, enlarged projectile weapons deal damage based on the size of the launcher. Technically the last critical should have done 6d6+9 damage, not 3d8+9 damage. However, given it still dropped him, I'm content to let the smaller damage stand. :) In regards to the comments, if he did start using the CLW wand, Kai would have been able to catch up (double move vs wand + move) and eventually sunder the thing. But I guess the dice roller took pity after the first natural 1. @Nurthilion: Ouch... Sorry about the ASF on that Cat's Grace scroll. I think you just spent more money on expendables then you made on the fight... Hehe...I remembered to show I had forgotten the penalty for being enlarged, but totally spaced about the damage increase...This fight drained quite abit with having to remake the maps as many times as I did. I agree about Nur's expendables for this fight. Even 10% ASF is rough. No problems on the movement; that's rather what I expected. However; Defensive precognition isn't an instant power (like empty mind). I would have to manifest it like normal in round 1. If you're feeling generous, please use that in round one, and not use the scroll of expiditious retreat at all (would save me a few bucks). I will edit it in tomorrow...I have been awake since 3am EST (that's 20 hours as of right now) All it does is move the kill forward to round 3 (I will just move the rolls to the next round). I don't think lonewolf will have a problem with this, it doesn't do anything for the result, just changes expenditures for Remnant. ~Taureus~
mucki 11-21-07, 04:09 AM	Name calling out of game is baiting and against the code of conduct. I've edited a post, but in general, let's keep it all about fighting characters, not each other. Wow, I wouldn't have thought that you guys really read all the stuff we post here day in and day out :) Thanks for the effort, I know from experience how draining it can be to stop all the drama ... *shudder*
whitebaron 11-21-07, 04:23 AM	I will edit it in tomorrow...I have been awake since 3am EST (that's 20 hours as of right now) All it does is move the kill forward to round 3 (I will just move the rolls to the next round). I don't think lonewolf will have a problem with this, it doesn't do anything for the result, just changes expenditures for Remnant. wow. your workload is impressive - looking forward to be pitlorded by you in the future. :)
lonewolf 11-21-07, 04:53 AM	Darian vs Remnant is up here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14386721&postcount=1510) @ Vath: I hope you aren't upset about moving into range of a power...If not in the second round, it would have happened in a later round. Readied actions are killer in this sense. Thanks for running. Note that Darian doesnt have the political carrier skill package so his rewards should be lower.
MindWandererB 11-23-07, 04:01 AM	Regarding WizO intervention: they don't normally police us very closely at all. Most likely, someone clicked the "report post" button, which summoned Autumn to check it out. <sigh> Well, at least I can still say that we've never needed WizO intervention while I was actually on duty.... Regarding credits: my standard policy when pairings are skipped is to apply the "late" penalty the Tuesday before the non-pairings, and the "missing" penalty the day pairings are actually done--if it's not done this way, folks have a tendency of procrastinating and not getting fights done despite the extra time. However, since I have to play catch-up and do two weeks of PR changes and credits, I'll be nice this time (since it'll make my life easier).
Erithmu 11-23-07, 11:27 AM	WW vs TEDS has been finalized with the ruling that teams function as a unit. Check rewards and whatnot.
whitebaron 11-23-07, 12:47 PM	WW vs TEDS has been finalized with the ruling that teams function as a unit. Check rewards and whatnot. thnx for the run. important note to self: don't forget our new-default-tactics section btw: the bless came from scroll.
mucki 11-23-07, 02:30 PM	Thanks for the run Erithmu. Sorry to you and TEDS that it had to come to such a complicated and yet anti-climatic ending. Also I used Rage. I think this should go in the fight results ?
Erithmu 11-23-07, 02:57 PM	Fixed and Fixed.
lonewolf 11-23-07, 04:38 PM	Also Falko shot one arrow and missed, so you still have to roll if it survives. :rolleyes:
Rauul 11-23-07, 07:29 PM	Since i have lost internet connection on any permanent basis if someone can pick up the following fights for me i would appreciate it.. as would the fighters.. The Needle vs. Durzulgor I [ECL 3] (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14368962&postcount=1508) Gakhnalak Strongjaw vs. Yorick [ECL 7] (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14337769&postcount=1498) Also if MWB/Telin see this please remove me as a Pitlord till further notice.. I will attempt to get to the library system to finish up the miniquest (20 min max time per signin)
Taureus_Drakken 11-23-07, 10:22 PM	No problems on the movement; that's rather what I expected. However; Defensive precognition isn't an instant power (like empty mind). I would have to manifest it like normal in round 1. If you're feeling generous, please use that in round one, and not use the scroll of expiditious retreat at all (would save me a few bucks). I just remembered this, and edited it accordingly. Used DP instead of Scroll of ER. ~Taureus~
whitebaron 11-24-07, 02:01 PM	The Needle vs. Durzulgor I [ECL 3] (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14368962&postcount=1508) consider it taken. i will start sunday night. i don't want anyones first fight to end in week 2. :) maybe i can take the other fight too, depends on the time this one takes.
Eluria 11-24-07, 05:47 PM	consider it taken. i will start sunday night. i don't want anyones first fight to end in week 2. :) maybe i can take the other fight too, depends on the time this one takes. thanks WB
whitebaron 11-25-07, 03:18 PM	and there it is... about the other fight: well, i'll check my health-status tomorrow.
TelinArtho 11-26-07, 01:59 PM	Just posted the set up for the Varjo vs Ralein and Gwerden fight. Still not sure if I'll be able to get to it - work has been terrible for me and I'm not sure when it will clear up. I will try to do an update on the campaign as soon as I can.
whitebaron 11-26-07, 02:29 PM	if anyone takes it, a note on the disarm in our tactics - callix has an oversight there. if you attempt disarm unarmed, there's no need to pickup the weapon - it's in the disarm description. flurry should be possible as it is possible in grapple, too.
Callix 11-26-07, 04:16 PM	if anyone takes it, a note on the disarm in our tactics - callix has an oversight there. if you attempt disarm unarmed, there's no need to pickup the weapon - it's in the disarm description. flurry should be possible as it is possible in grapple, too. Yep, my bad. I never really planned a monk, so I didn't pick it up. In that case, please flurry disarm, rather than the single disarm + pick up.
Stormwind 11-26-07, 06:43 PM	Hmmm .... nice idea with the tactics guys, I hadn't thought of that ... I will definitely have to take that into account in my tactics in future fights ;)
Stormwind 11-27-07, 02:12 AM	After checking the SRD, it seems that the pitlord for our fight is going to have to make a judgement call regarding the ghost touch ability on a weapon. Ghost Touch: A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. (An incorporeal creature’s 50% chance to avoid damage does not apply to attacks with ghost touch weapons.) The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as either corporeal or incorporeal at any given time, whichever is more beneficial to the wielder. The highlighted section above and Steve's discussion on ghost touch weapons in the RotG article (I think it was one of the ones dealing with incorporeality, but I can't locate it right now), would both indicate that when an incorporeal creature carries a ghost touch weapon, that the weapon is then incorporeal. If so, can it be disarmed by a unarmed corporeal opponent? Furthermore, if it can be disarmed, then does the incorporeal miss chance apply to disarm attemtps? I would reason that if the weapon is being used to attack, then it can be disarmed, and the disarm attempts would not suffer from the incorporeal miss chance. If the weapon is not being used to attack, then it should remain completely incorporeal and thus only able to be disarmed with a magic weapon. However this is just my view on the subject and although I am trying to retain an impartial opinion on this, my opinion may be biased so I would appreciate others comments/opinions on this.
MindWandererB 11-27-07, 02:39 AM	After checking the SRD, it seems that the pitlord for our fight is going to have to make a judgement call regarding the ghost touch ability on a weapon. The highlighted section above and Steve's discussion on ghost touch weapons in the RotG article (I think it was one of the ones dealing with incorporeality, but I can't locate it right now), would both indicate that when an incorporeal creature carries a ghost touch weapon, that the weapon is then incorporeal. If so, can it be disarmed by a unarmed corporeal opponent? Furthermore, if it can be disarmed, then does the incorporeal miss chance apply to disarm attemtps? I would reason that if the weapon is being used to attack, then it can be disarmed, and the disarm attempts would not suffer from the incorporeal miss chance. If the weapon is not being used to attack, then it should remain completely incorporeal and thus only able to be disarmed with a magic weapon. However this is just my view on the subject and although I am trying to retain an impartial opinion on this, my opinion may be biased so I would appreciate others comments/opinions on this. I would tend to agree. Except at the instant it's being used, a ghost touch weapon carried by an incorporeal creature would only be able to be disarmed by a magic weapon, or by an unarmed strike or natural weapon under the effects of Magic Fang or an Amulet of Mighty Fists.
Hirumajoe 11-27-07, 03:03 AM	I would tend to agree. Except at the instant it's being used, a ghost touch weapon carried by an incorporeal creature would only be able to be disarmed by a magic weapon, or by an unarmed strike or natural weapon under the effects of Magic Fang or an Amulet of Mighty Fists. Out of curiosity, would a 4th level or higher monk with Ki Strike (Magic) be able to disarm said Ghost touch weapon? Since magic weapons (as far as I know) are only defined in reference to damage reduction, which is what the Ki Strike (Magic) applies to.
MindWandererB 11-27-07, 03:24 AM	Out of curiosity, would a 4th level or higher monk with Ki Strike (Magic) be able to disarm said Ghost touch weapon? Since magic weapons (as far as I know) are only defined in reference to damage reduction, which is what the Ki Strike (Magic) applies to. At 4th level, a monk’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. Her unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction.Note that ki strike applies only to DR X/Magic. They're not considered magic weapons for any other purpose, including whether they can strike incorporeal creatures. Not that I can think of any other purpose offhand, but the definition of ki strike is very specific.
whitebaron 11-27-07, 04:47 AM	well, if those are the rules of the game, gwerdan will commit suicide... there's no use on even trying to get this fight running if he can't even disarm that dagger. btw: can you cast deeper darkness on something incorporeal? i'd say no, as you cannot touch it. ps: damn monsters...
McJarvis 11-27-07, 09:07 AM	I revised Valen's fight. One lucky spot check and it's over.
McJarvis 11-27-07, 09:55 AM	Sylean'delues (bgt) vs. Shaela of the Rooftops (Callix) is done. I don't know why Sauro thinks hider-fights involve a ton of rolls- it really isn't that many. I think that's the first time I've seen a ride for cover be impossible before, too. (!)
hogarth 11-27-07, 10:30 AM	Sylean'delues (bgt) vs. Shaela of the Rooftops (Callix) is done. I don't know why Sauro thinks hider-fights involve a ton of rolls- it really isn't that many. I think that's the first time I've seen a ride for cover be impossible before, too. (!) Hide-and-seek fights don't necessarily require a lot of rolls. But fights where the hider has a low damage output and the seeker has a low (but non-zero) probability of finding the hider do. Or fights where both sides try to hide.
Macbrea 11-27-07, 10:38 AM	Trip/Grapple fights take a huge amount more rolls. And people don't seem to mind those.
Macbrea 11-27-07, 10:39 AM	Hmm, so.. Yorick goes into his 3rd week in this fight. :P
whitebaron 11-27-07, 10:44 AM	well, grapple is easier than trip, if the grappler is good enough. *g* trip is really huge amount - every round, AoO(if not improved trip), trip, 2*opposed, followup, AoO for standing up. + damage rolls. grapple is easier, as this is only for the first round, then its just opposed check. - unless the grappler is only marginally better than the grappled one, he will not so easily escape. i do mind tripping battles - but not enough to regret running them. but i hate sneaky ones. as you need not only to check their skills repeatedly - you also have to give thoughts about LoS and distance. @macbrea: let's see how i feel when i come home tonight (which will be late) - hopefully, someone has picked up this fight before. :)
hogarth 11-27-07, 10:50 AM	Trip/Grapple fights take a huge amount more rolls. And people don't seem to mind those. I certainly wouldn't say tripping requires a huge amount more. Sneaking requires Hide+MS rolls for the sneaker and Spot+Listen rolls for the non-sneaker and his applicable allies every round (leaving aside attack rolls); tripping just requires a trip roll and a resist roll, and rarely a counter-trip roll and resist roll (leaving aside attack rolls). Grappling can involve a lot of rolls, but the important thing to realise is that those rolls are generally offensive (i.e. bringing the fight closer to the end) as opposed to defensive (i.e. prolonging the fight).
McJarvis 11-27-07, 10:52 AM	but i hate sneaky ones. as you need not only to check their skills repeatedly - you also have to give thoughts about LoS and distance. Why would you have to check them more than once? When I know I'm heading into a sneak battle I make a note of hide/ms/spot/listen checks so I don't need to reference their sheet. (I mean- you could say the same about AC//to hit, but you should be jotting that down too so you don't need to go check it every roll in a 30-round archery battle)
Macbrea 11-27-07, 11:23 AM	You only need to reroll the sneak/hide checks if the person did something besides move while hidden. You shouldn't need to make one every round. Once, the person starts making attacks then you need to reroll the numbers every round. And almost always the moment the person is spotted. It ends the need for these rolls.
Hirumajoe 11-27-07, 11:28 AM	I revised Valen's fight. One lucky spot check and it's over. First, thanks for run. And thanks for considering the better attack/movement options for Valen. Only thing missing is the rewards section. I've already updated Valen, but it might be good to have it explicitly listed in the fight. For future reference (no need for further edits, I'm happy to accept the fight as is), I don't think there's a -20 penalty to hide for the move after the attack. I admit I don't have an explicit FAQ statement on it, but I do have a suggestive one. 1. The character begins his turn hidden (as long as he’s in natural terrain, he doesn’t even need cover or concealment). 2. He moves up to a foe across natural terrain and makes an attack (making a Hide check with a –20 penalty to be considered hiding when he attacks). 3. He then moves back from the foe and makes a new Hide check to disappear from view (again, he doesn’t need cover or concealment while in natural terrain). 4. The foe then, if still standing, says, “Hey, what hit me?!” The way I read this is there is no penalty or a -5 penalty if he's moving at full speed on the turn before, then one at -20 as he approaches and attacks, then a third one at no penalty or -5 if at full speed. Otherwise, you would only need one roll at the -20 penalty in the attack turn.
hogarth 11-27-07, 11:39 AM	You only need to reroll the sneak/hide checks if the person did something besides move while hidden. According to my reading, you need to make a Hide check every time you move. I could be wrong, though (and it would save a lot of Hide rolls!).
Macbrea 11-27-07, 11:55 AM	I always have read that as make a hide check. The opponent needs to make a spot check once. If they fail. They may make a spot check as a move action unless situation has changed. If the hider makes a ranged attack they may then rehide with sniping action (move) at this point they must make a new roll. This pretty much has been the way I have always run hide in CoCo. as a result you will notice I mark peoples HIDE [##],MS [##] in their buff status line. This number will hold true until they do some action that results in an interaction with the opposite player. This means I just have to make a spot/listen check reactively each round until it goes to a combat. At the point that the character starts sniping the hide/ms rolls need to be rerolled each round. As the character is actively rehiding/ms to avoid the target. Otherwise it's all considered part of one very long extended action. That might just be my reading of the rules vs someone elses. And yes, I still end up rolling a huge number of rolls once the combat has started. That is because there is 4 additional rolls each round until the character is spotted. At that point, the combat almost always degrades to a shoot-out / runs to melee by the searchers tactics.
McJarvis 11-27-07, 11:56 AM	The way I read this is there is no penalty or a -5 penalty if he's moving at full speed on the turn before, then one at -20 as he approaches and attacks, then a third one at no penalty or -5 if at full speed. Otherwise, you would only need one roll at the -20 penalty in the attack turn. Basically the hide rules boil down like this: Penalties: -5 if moving at full speed. -20 if you've attacked in the same round as you're hiding. additional rules: normally need to break LOS before hiding(or distract opponent) normally need cover or concealment to be hiding. The "non-HIPS" character doing what you did would be like if it was shadowy(20% concealment) in the sewer. The rogue could hide, then base his opponent. Sneak attack- move away around a corner(breaking LOS). He gets a -20 check to re-hide, though, because he already attacked that round. RE: number of rolls. Firstly- I don't think extra rolls are necessarily hard when you don't need to report them expressly. For instance- in the sneak fight I did this week I always rolled hide/spot and MS/listen checks together with 1 "roll"(CoCo roller lets you do that), so you can just eyeball them and see if the spot beat the hide. So it ends up being two quick clicks with a few keystrokes in between- with only extra "time" being if a gladiator detected the other.
Hirumajoe 11-27-07, 12:05 PM	Basically the hide rules boil down like this: Penalties: -5 if moving at full speed. -20 if you've attacked in the same round as you're hiding. additional rules: normally need to break LOS before hiding(or distract opponent) normally need cover or concealment to be hiding. The "non-HIPS" character doing what you did would be like if it was shadowy(20% concealment) in the sewer. The rogue could hide, then base his opponent. Sneak attack- move away around a corner(breaking LOS). He gets a -20 check to re-hide, though, because he already attacked that round. I could have sworn there was a discussion awhile back in the courtroom or council discussing the ability to attack (say with a ranged attack) not as a snipe, then moving away afterwards with HIPS without a -20 penalty. Something about lonewolf's Chameleon if I remember correctly. I'll go see if I can find it. I don't suppose you have a pointer to where that interpretation is explained out? (I.e. attacking, running around the corner, then hiding at -20?) I'd obviously like to understand this correctly.
hogarth 11-27-07, 12:36 PM	RE: number of rolls. Firstly- I don't think extra rolls are necessarily hard when you don't need to report them expressly. For instance- in the sneak fight I did this week I always rolled hide/spot and MS/listen checks together with 1 "roll"(CoCo roller lets you do that), so you can just eyeball them and see if the spot beat the hide. So it ends up being two quick clicks with a few keystrokes in between- with only extra "time" being if a gladiator detected the other. It's not quite that easy since the modifiers are generally changing from round to round due to range, but I agree that making one round's worth of rolls is not onerous. As I said before, the problem arises when the hider needs to make 100+ rounds' worth of attacks to kill his opponent(s). :)
Hirumajoe 11-27-07, 12:58 PM	So I did a little digging, and I found a short discussion starting with this post in the council of gladius (IV) thread. In it Lonewolf is asking about firing and then moving away while hiding with HIPS without the -20 penalty. I make a similar argument to above, and Telin seems to agree with me at the time. Random thought: Rereading the discussion in the council thread makes me sometimes wish they had just written shadow dancer Hide in Plain sight as "You are magically invisible while within 10' of shadows." It seems it would make people more comfortable with the mechanics. And not to mention require fewer rolls... :)
McJarvis 11-27-07, 01:18 PM	Check: Your Hide check is opposed by the Spot check of anyone who might see you. You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging. .... Sniping: If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot. Basically- since there are two separate -20 mechanics for attacking- we assume they are both useful. Since sniping rules seem to strongly suggest that you can't "maintain" a hide during an attack- we assume that the -20 is for situations in which you have attacked during the round & attempted to hide afterwards. edit- I can definately see where you're coming from though. You're just assuming the -20 is to see if you can follow through with an attack while hiding- not re-hiding after an attack. That actually makes hiding less powerful, though(since you need to make a hide check at -20 to attack in the first place, rather than just to be able to re-hide the turn after) All of this discussion makes me want to play a psionic rogue. *shakes fist at everyone who didn't like Mind's Eye stuff*
McJarvis 11-27-07, 01:20 PM	It's not quite that easy since the modifiers are generally changing from round to round due to range, The modifiers don't change- the DC does. Generally how I handle this is I do a Spot vs Hide check, and then just quickly calculate how far away the spotter could see someone with that high(or low) of a hide check. It's pretty easy to know if opponents are 100, 50, or 20 ft away most of the time. You don't need to determine the exact DC in most cases. (so a spot vs hide of 20 vs 16 means that the spotter can see anyone with a 16 hide within 40 ft of him) As for the listen rules - you got me there. I really wish we just did a "DC MS gives you direction, DC MS+20 gives you pinpoint" way of it. The grids are a mess- especially for 3D battles. I don't understand how anyone can think they are simple. [or even necessary]
Hirumajoe 11-27-07, 01:32 PM	Basically- since there are two separate -20 mechanics for attacking- we assume they are both useful. Since sniping rules seem to strongly suggest that you can't "maintain" a hide during an attack- we assume that the -20 is for situations in which you have attacked during the round & attempted to hide afterwards. I guess we're simply reading the same passage differently. I interpret the "while" part as implying at the moment of the attack and not applying to actions after (or before) the attack. I see it as a symmetry - you don't take a -20 penalty before you attack in a turn that you attack, nor should you take -20 penalty after you attack in a turn that you attack. Its just without special circumstances you can't normally hide after that attack. Also note the FAQ clearly indicates that you can maintain a hide during an attack. It at least has a melee attack example anyways. I've often wondered if someone has HIPS, if they could make a normal ranged attack while hiding. Clearly, a person with improved invisibility can. And presumably that improved invisible ranged striker would suffer a -20 penalty to hiding while doing so. (Since Invisibility simply grants a +20 bonus to hide to avoid being pinpointed in addition to the total concealment part).
McJarvis 11-27-07, 01:39 PM	I guess we're simply reading the same passage differently. I interpret the "while" part as implying at the moment of the attack and not applying to actions after (or before) the attack. I see it as a symmetry - you don't take a -20 penalty before you attack in a turn that you attack, nor should you take -20 penalty after you attack in a turn that you attack. Its just without special circumstances you can't normally hide after that attack. Yeah, I just edited that into my post a sec ago. Also note the FAQ clearly indicates that you can maintain a hide during an attack. It at least has a melee attack example anyways. Right- but only with spring attack. Which involves movement on both ends, and it says it in relation to HiPS- which specifically lets you hide while being observed :) I've often wondered if someone has HIPS, if they could make a normal ranged attack while hiding. Clearly, a person with improved invisibility can. And presumably that improved invisible ranged striker would suffer a -20 penalty to hiding while doing so. (Since Invisibility simply grants a +20 bonus to hide to avoid being pinpointed in addition to the total concealment part). Yeah- but the hide check when you're invisible is implied to just mean you pinpoint the invisible creature. They still have 50% concealment even if you "spot" them. [by definition of invisibility] I'd imagine they autopinpoint you when you attack- though you could just move and negate their pinpoint, since you have total concealment....
hogarth 11-27-07, 01:45 PM	Just to throw another spanner into the works, someone here suggested (I don't remember who) that the -20 to Hide while attacking (but not sniping) would apply only to third parties attempting to spot an attack, since the victim of the attack auto-spots the attacker (in the CoCo, anyways). Personally I find the whole thing too confusing to form an opinion.
Hirumajoe 11-27-07, 02:03 PM	All of this discussion makes me want to play a psionic rogue. *shakes fist at everyone who didn't like Mind's Eye stuff* What do you think Valen is... He's a psionic fighter/mage/rogue/partridge-in-a-pear-tree. :D (Don't make me use metamorphosis on Valen to turn into a pear tree to prove my point...) Ok, so he doesn't get Sneak attack dice, but he does do alot of the other stuff... Yeah- but the hide check when you're invisible is implied to just mean you pinpoint the invisible creature. They still have 50% concealment even if you "spot" them. [by definition of invisibility] I'd imagine they autopinpoint you when you attack- though you could just move and negate their pinpoint, since you have total concealment.... Well, I think of it this way: Hide in Plain sight (while its "activated") lets you do anything invisibility does. I.e. hide while being observed and so forth. Its just when it breaks down (i.e. they beat your hide check with their spot check) it breaks down completely and you don't have the total concealment as a backup. It also doesn't provide you with an inherent +20 to hide. But other than those two issues, improved invisibility should function mechanically exactly like hiding in plain sight. You should make rolls exactly in the same way at the same time with the same penalties and should be able to take all the same types of actions while remaining "unspotted" or "unpinpointed" (in the case of invisibility). Edit: Now I'm tempted to ask in the courtroom on whether you can make a full attack using HIPS at a -20 penalty, in the same way that an Improved Invisibility character could. That would have have helped Valen alot in the last fight I think, since it would have increased his damage output by a factor of 3 or so...
McJarvis 11-27-07, 02:06 PM	What do you think Valen is... He's a psionic fighter/mage/rogue/partridge-in-a-pear-tree. :D (Don't make me use metamorphosis on Valen to turn into a pear tree to prove my point...) Ok, so he doesn't get Sneak attack dice, but he does do alot of the other stuff... As the famous Order of the Stick strip went... Elan: I'm a bard. Nale: A bard, huh? My dad taught me that Bards are underpowered. Elan: Really? So what class are you? Nale: I'm a multiclass fighter/rogue/sorcerer who specializes in enchantment spells. Elan: And that never struck you as needlessly complicated? Nale: Not until this moment, no. linky (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html)
Macbrea 11-27-07, 03:12 PM	You only auto-pinpoint the location of an opponent that manages to actually hit you. As per the rules to invisibility: If an invisible creature strikes a character, the character struck still knows the location of the creature that struck him (until, of course, the invisible creature moves). The only exception is if the invisible creature has a reach greater than 5 feet. In this case, the struck character knows the general location of the creature but has not pinpointed the exact location. As such, if you swing and miss then move. You aren't spotted.
Callix 11-27-07, 05:51 PM	Sylean'delues (bgt) vs. Shaela of the Rooftops (Callix) is done. I don't know why Sauro thinks hider-fights involve a ton of rolls- it really isn't that many. I think that's the first time I've seen a ride for cover be impossible before, too. (!) Thanks for the run. The trick with the hiding was to hide one more square towards the centre on the diagonal. Anyway, a bit of luck got me out of that. I need to check my co-ordinates better. Also, I'd like Shaela's free activity listed, just in case she gets audited and they can't find week 2 of the Hat. It's not a biggie, but it'd be nice.
TelinArtho 11-27-07, 06:07 PM	Gwerden "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) and Ralein Dreamstriker (Callix) vs Varjo7 (Stormwind) [Interleague] is up. Sorry about the delay guys.
Callix 11-28-07, 02:34 AM	Gwerden "Twofist" Grummler (whitebaron) and Ralein Dreamstriker (Callix) vs Varjo7 (Stormwind) [Interleague] is up. Sorry about the delay guys. No problem, Telin. We all appreciate the amount of work you do for CoCo. And if it weren't for that delay, this would've been run first, then started a big brawl over in the Courtroom, then ended up the same. So it worked out for the best.
Stormwind 11-28-07, 02:53 AM	Hi Telin, Sorry to bother you on the fight again, but the rewards seem slightly off. I think you've given Varjo too much gold reward. I think it should be: Varjo wins and gains 2100xp - 15% = 1785xp/2380gp 2210gp.
McJarvis 11-28-07, 09:11 AM	I need to check my co-ordinates better. Plotting things on the mapper and sending the pitlord a visual copy works really well.