Post/Author/DateTime	Post
McJarvis 11-07-07, 09:38 AM	Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. News & Whatnot The news results are in for the month of October. Out of 27 fights in October, only 2 were upsets. The top two beatdowns of the month were made by Lord Lorian. The third-biggest beatdown was made by Reginald Molehusband. Foul play is suspected. These gladiators should be ashamed for beating up on poor honest working gladiators! Check out the latest copy of the "Gladius Weekly" to read more about these Gladius Most Wanted. The biggest upset was on Oct. 17th, when team Wiener Wadlbeisser (Multiple Managers) defeated Felice tu'Ria. See a "Gladius Weekly" near you to get more information on this Gladiator Team of the Month! [Assuming it ever comes back into publication. Numerous acts of terrorism in Gladius lately have kept it from printing new copies.] The only other upset this month was when Gortek(Manager: Rauul) defeated two other opponents in a free for all. There was much rejoicing amongst dwarves everywhere. Information: An Upset is when a gladiator defeats another gladiator with a higher base PR. A Beatdown is the opposite. All statistics are taken for ECL4 and above only. The Gladiator of the Month will always be the largest upset. The Gladius Most Wanted listing will always be the largest beatdowns. Monster fights are not taken into consideration at this time. Statistics began on Oct. 17. All other information was un-salvagable. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindwandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool (http://wormhole.ath.cx/coco/coco_dist.php) should suffice. Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
whitebaron 11-07-07, 09:45 AM	two questions concerning this week: crucio wants to craft for the team. a) only he needs to be active and set to craft, right? b) is there any way to submit what you are crafting after the deadline? i'm not sure we get everything set by then.
McJarvis 11-07-07, 09:58 AM	two questions concerning this week: crucio wants to craft for the team. a) only he needs to be active and set to craft, right? b) is there any way to submit what you are crafting after the deadline? i'm not sure we get everything set by then. When TM and I did the battlesong duet we would craft in our own individual "off cycle" type thing. As far as the deadline- it's up to MWB. I bet he'd be willing to accept crafting after the deadline- I'm just not sure how much after the deadline.
templer10 11-07-07, 12:30 PM	Dont foget in both this beatdowns poor baelin was the target - once he had his bow stolen from him and once he got distinigrated to dust - both on the first round of Actual Engagment.... i Sense a vendeta....
TelinArtho 11-07-07, 12:37 PM	Not sure which I am more interested in: testing Aquin versus a EL9 monster fight or testing him against Macbrea's Derro and MWB's Orc... Should be an interesting week.
lonewolf 11-07-07, 12:46 PM	Im praying for a smaller map if Darian has to face Flutterthought. On the plains its pretty much an autowin for the pixie. I wonder how long it will take for someone to actually scrap the credits together and do a pixie ghost. *shutter*
Macbrea 11-07-07, 12:47 PM	hmmm, my derro? odd.. I didn't think I had him active. Edit: Odd.. guess I did.
mucki 11-07-07, 01:38 PM	You know, whan I looked at the pairings page and thought: "Pitch black again?" I realized: why is there no date on this page ? Like: "These are the pairings for October 31!" or something. Given that all fights of the week posts link to that posting, and it is probably viewed most often on wednesday evenings, that might be helpful.
Hirumajoe 11-07-07, 01:44 PM	Im praying for a smaller map if Darian has to face Flutterthought. On the plains its pretty much an autowin for the pixie. I wonder how long it will take for someone to actually scrap the credits together and do a pixie ghost. *shutter* Umm... 1 Hit Die at ECL 10. Sure, its got an insane touch AC, and I suppose its using Telekinesis and 1d4 ability damage touches... But its just feels far too fragile. I mean, clerics and paladins at that level should be able to just blow it out of the water with turn undead, no? And in those higher ECL leagues, counters are easier to come by. Like an Obsidian steed for 28,500 or a cloak of Etherealness for 55,000 gp. Being ethereal negates 80% of the Ghost benefits. At which point you're a 25-32 hp wonder without deflection bonuses on a timer saying you win after 10 rounds - if you live that long.
TelinArtho 11-07-07, 02:00 PM	You know, whan I looked at the pairings page and thought: "Pitch black again?" I realized: why is there no date on this page ? Like: "These are the pairings for October 31!" or something. Given that all fights of the week posts link to that posting, and it is probably viewed most often on wednesday evenings, that might be helpful. Well - the pairings post in the Battles thread is the current week - meaning if it hasn't been posted yet - the pairings aren't complete yet. That said - a simple solution if you still want to use the one in the characters thread is to look at the last modified date.
McJarvis 11-07-07, 02:02 PM	Well - the pairings post in the Battles thread is the current week - meaning if it hasn't been posted yet - the pairings aren't complete yet. That said - a simple solution if you still want to use the one in the characters thread is to look at the last modified date. I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility to get a date on it. Though MWB will have to decide whether he wants to spend a few extra seconds changing that...it certainly isn't an unreasonable request. And bookmarking the pairings page certainly is easier than checking the battles thread.
TelinArtho 11-07-07, 02:07 PM	I don't disagree McJarvis. I was just proposing methods under the current conditions that could assure the individual won't get confused.
McJarvis 11-07-07, 02:29 PM	I don't disagree McJarvis. I was just proposing methods under the current conditions that could assure the individual won't get confused. Good to hear :). Sorry if I sounded offensive- sometimes I take suggestions on how the user can do things differently as excuses on why we don't do things differently. It's a flaw I aquired while running my own business. [Which is an environment where being this cautious is necessary]
MindWandererB 11-07-07, 04:21 PM	Yeah, I've been a lazy bum lately. I used to strikethrough completed fights on Tuesdays, but I don't always have time for it. And I can't always get to the computer at the deadline. But you can easily check the "edited by" bit at the bottom to see if I've updated since the deadline. @McJ: You're way off on the "upsets." Here's the list for October, divided by week: - Alacrity/Verger: +/- 134 - Baelin/Kracknol*: +/- 132 - Nemion/Dajeus: +/- 117 - Verren/Needle: +/- 154 - Kervan/Elrick: +/- 216 (biggest upset) - Tanriel/Zodiac: +/- 108 - Go'lie/Mineau: +/- 111 - Shugo/Nemion: +/- 117 - Verger/Helga: +/- 103 - Wroth/Snaga: +/- 104 - Weiner/Felice: +/- 167 - Vaernya/Khaz: +/- 119 - Thorell/Tanriel: +/- 110 - Dajeus/Go'lie: +/- 117 - Enoch/Gakhnalak: +/- 124 - Altair/Thorell: +/- 111 - Gortek/Petyr/Wroth: +113/-132/-95 - Nemion/Psori: +/- 109 - Malik/monster//Kracknol: +/- 110 And the biggest beatdown was Lorian*/Baelin: +/- 35... the biggest beatdown I've ever seen, in fact. Seems you got that right.
McJarvis 11-07-07, 04:23 PM	Yeah, I've been a lazy bum lately. I used to strikethrough completed fights on Tuesdays, but I don't always have time for it. And I can't always get to the computer at the deadline. But you can easily check the "edited by" bit at the bottom to see if I've updated since the deadline. @McJ: You're way off on the "upsets." Here's the list for October, divided by week: - Alacrity/Verger: +/- 134 - Baelin/Kracknol*: +/- 132 - Nemion/Dajeus: +/- 117 - Verren/Needle: +/- 154 - Kervan/Elrick: +/- 216 - Tanriel/Zodiac: +/- 108 - Go'lie/Mineau: +/- 111 - Shugo/Nemion: +/- 117 - Verger/Helga: +/- 103 - Wroth/Snaga: +/- 104 - Weiner/Felice: +/- 167 - Vaernya/Khaz: +/- 119 - Thorell/Tanriel: +/- 110 - Dajeus/Go'lie: +/- 117 - Enoch/Gakhnalak: +/- 124 - Altair/Thorell: +/- 111 - Gortek/Petyr/Wroth: +113/-132/-95 - Nemion/Psori: +/- 109 - Malik/monster//Kracknol: +/- 110 I got my figures by recording the PR rating at the time of the pairing roll. Is that what these figures are? All the same- at the time of the pairing roll I only see two fights that were actually upsets. Also note that I didn't start recording until the 14th. [as stated in the grey area] edit - Also note that I don't even count ECL3- which you seem to include here. [It's not very interesting for a new character to defeat a character with 1 fight under its belt]. I give it 'till ECL4 to equalize the PR's a bit. I ALSO don't include monster fights. [Including Krak/Mal, since monsters are a wild-card of sorts. Krak easily killed Mal, but was defeated by an over-powered monster- doesn't seem like an upset to me] In general, I think the things I choose to not include in these statistics are for the better and give them more meaning. [And personally I find it interesting that PR is such a good tool to predict fight outcomes given those circumstances] edit#2- In fight of the week threads that don't fall on the first pairing of the month, I'm considering doing special coverage of the ECL3 league- but I think the "Title of the Month" awards are good the way they are. I don't want to commit to anything too fast, though, so I'll creep my way in. Hopefully it'll be a nice suppliment//pseudo replacement for Gladiator-match related stuff in the Gladius Weekly? I dunno. edit#3- Looks like I did miss the Wroth/Snaga fight. I marked it correctly on my spreadsheet, but forgot to do the carryover calculation. I'm going to standardize my excel sheet format so it does this stuff automatically and there's less human error on my part.
Rauul 11-07-07, 04:37 PM	I'm a hoping MwB got my new character before he does pairings...
MindWandererB 11-07-07, 04:41 PM	Then you should qualify your definitions... what I have listed above is every fight where the PR changed by more than 100, which happens when the winner's PR is lower than the loser's. Yes, it looks like most are ECL 3. But otherwise, yeah, I like the attention this brings to individual gladiators. You feel like taking over the Newspaper? @Rauul: I always check the forum and my PM box before I do anything on pairings day. So no problem.
McJarvis 11-07-07, 04:44 PM	Then you should qualify your definitions... I did- in the grey text right below the data in the post. An Upset is when a gladiator defeats another gladiator with a higher base PR. A Beatdown is the opposite. All statistics are taken for ECL4 and above only. The Gladiator of the Month will always be the largest upset. The Gladius Most Wanted listing will always be the largest beatdowns. Monster fights are not taken into consideration at this time. Statistics began on Oct. 17. All other information was un-salvagable. You feel like taking over the Newspaper? I don't want to take it away from Vath- but I'm certainly game to organizing further stories like this. I really wanted something less subjective than "somebody write in about a gladiator you want to write about". I think the FotW thread needed a little something extra instead of the standard cut/paste. :)
MindWandererB 11-07-07, 04:47 PM	Ah, I missed the ECL 4 line. Vath hasn't been able to do the paper in a while, so I don't think he'd mind. BTW, if you ever need my notes for something like this (since I track it all anyway), just ask.
Rauul 11-07-07, 04:52 PM	I don't want to take it away from Vath- but I'm certainly game to organizing further stories like this. I really wanted something less subjective than "somebody write in about a gladiator you want to write about". I think the FotW thread needed a little something extra instead of the standard cut/paste. :) Oh if McJarvis does the paper every Tuesday (day before pairings) Could lead to some decent story's about the fights of the week... And Vath can Do the Monthly Special Edition... (to announce the "Gladiator of the Month", "Most Wanted of the Month" ect.. Put Bounty's on Certain Characters (50gp xECL bonus gold if you defeat them), payed by the character who offered the Bounty (this would drive my half-orc broke by putting a bounty on elf heads)...
McJarvis 11-07-07, 04:53 PM	Ah, I missed the ECL 4 line. Vath hasn't been able to do the paper in a while, so I don't think he'd mind. BTW, if you ever need my notes for something like this (since I track it all anyway), just ask. I think I can operate on my own pretty well. I just constructed an excel sheet that will automatically pop out results so long as I put all the winners/losers in the appropriate columns.
McJarvis 11-07-07, 04:54 PM	Put Bounty's on Certain Characters (50gp xECL bonus gold if you defeat them), payed by the character who offered the Bounty (this would drive my half-orc broke by putting a bounty on elf heads)... I think something tied in with the community of gladius would be a better idea- but the Bounty idea isn't bad. Not bad at all.
Hirumajoe 11-07-07, 04:56 PM	I think something tied in with the community of gladius would be a better idea- but the Bounty idea isn't bad. Not bad at all. From a balance perspective, it'd probably have to be something a little less tangible. Like credits or something, rather than straight up gold. Since we tend to be rather strict about the xp to gold ratio for characters. *Shrug*. But the idea is kinda cool.
MindWandererB 11-07-07, 04:58 PM	That's a perfect sort of thing for the Community. Credits are for player rewards, and gp rewards throw balance out of whack.
Rauul 11-07-07, 04:59 PM	I think something tied in with the community of gladius would be a better idea- but the Bounty idea isn't bad. Not bad at all. Thanks... Been actually thinking about that since the teams showed on at ECL 6.. and Flutterthought :) Been thinking about having Graashnak challenge Wiener Wadlbeisser to a fight in the Forest... next 3fc
TelinArtho 11-07-07, 05:00 PM	@McJ: By fights in "October" you didn't include last week right? I'm only asking because Aquin's win over Izumi was only +/- 58 I think and I'm surprized it didn't make the "news."
Rauul 11-07-07, 05:01 PM	That's a perfect sort of thing for the Community. Credits are for player rewards, and gp rewards throw balance out of whack. Could be a Community award (an agent, a building , a title.. or a +% to something??)
McJarvis 11-07-07, 05:02 PM	@McJ: By fights in "October" you didn't include last week right? I'm only asking because Aquin's win over Izumi was only +/- 58 I think and I'm surprized it didn't make the "news." I'm only going to record the top three beatdowns- and Reggy's was a 900 PR beatdown. It wasn't that it wasn't big news- there were just bigger fish to fry. [Which gives away my methods- I suppose. I don't look at change in PR- but rather the difference in PR at the time of battle. ]
TelinArtho 11-07-07, 05:04 PM	Are the beatdown/upset based on the biggest difference between the opponents or on the resulting PR change? Reggy's 900PR beatdown probably only resulted in +/- 50? Anyway - when I posted I didn't realize he had such a high PR - so I figured Aquin had a chance...
whitebaron 11-07-07, 05:06 PM	i'd go for a free ecl1 or 1/2 agent. ;) Been thinking about having Graashnak challenge Wiener Wadlbeisser to a fight in the Forest... next 3fc bring it on, kid. ;)
McJarvis 11-07-07, 05:09 PM	Are the beatdown/upset based on the biggest difference between the opponents or on the resulting PR change? Reggy's 900PR beatdown probably only resulted in +/- 50? Anyway - when I posted I didn't realize he had such a high PR - so I figured Aquin had a chance... I've been basing it on difference in PR- not +/- change. They are different, but I think the difference in PR is a better indicator of "beat-downedness" 1500 PR beats 1000 PR. 1000/1500 = 66 PR change 1000 PR beats 500 PR. 500/1000 = 50 PR change. But they should be the same sort of beatdown, I think. Thoughts anyone?
Rauul 11-07-07, 05:13 PM	i'd go for a free ecl1 or 1/2 agent. ;) bring it on, kid. ;) Always wondered how the Elf ranger gets along with the Human Cleric (he has Favored Enemy Human) Don't let Graashnak failure tag fool you... he does get lucky every now and then (just not very often)
MindWandererB 11-07-07, 05:24 PM	PR is kind of a curvilinear trend. It takes a bit of effort to get from PR 1600 to PR 1700, but going from 950 to 1050 is much easier. I don't think it makes a big difference when you're talking about the extreme cases, though--I bet they'd be the same nearly all the time. @Telin: Reg/Antalya was +/- 48 PR. I think Aquin comes in right after that, though.
McJarvis 11-07-07, 05:25 PM	PR is kind of a curvilinear trend. It takes a bit of effort to get from PR 1600 to PR 1700, but going from 950 to 1050 is much easier. I don't think it makes a big difference when you're talking about the extreme cases, though--I bet they'd be the same nearly all the time. @Telin: Reg/Antalya was +/- 48 PR. I think Aquin comes in right after that, though. If this is gonna affect the community game eventually- I'll do it whichever way you want me to. Total PR difference is just marginally easier for me to do than the PR change of the battle. [only because I'll have to redo 1 formula on my excel sheet]
MindWandererB 11-07-07, 05:49 PM	Pairings are done. No Community playtest yet--the ECLs of the submitted characters are just too disparate, and the ones in similar ranges all belong to the same player. Credits: Eamane F2 Hirumajoe F1 hogarth F1 Luni F1 Macbrea F1 McJarvis F3 Nurlithion F1 Rauul F1 Taureus_Drakken F2 templer10 F4 Vathelokai F1 whitebaron F3 A-1 MindWandererB A2 A-1 SauroGrenom A1 TelinArtho C3 A1 Key: F=Fight, Q=Quest, C=Campaign, G=Guildmaster, A=Admin or Active Characters
TelinArtho 11-07-07, 05:51 PM	No interleague fight for Aquin then... time to test him out on monsters. My tactics will likely be away tomorrow. For Aquin - that will certainly be true if his monster info is posted...
McJarvis 11-07-07, 05:53 PM	I was hoping something like this would happen. I'm not even sure if it works. I had marius prebuff with "expend psionic focus for vs bluff attempt in case of skill packages". Can I use this to ward off the assassinate from Zodiac 2? [I have the inquisitor feat]
Vathelokai 11-07-07, 05:55 PM	I was hoping something like this would happen. I'm not even sure if it works. I had marius prebuff with "expend psionic focus for vs bluff attempt in case of skill packages". Can I use this to ward off the assassinate from Zodiac 2? [I have the inquisitor feat] :nonono: Will no one let me kill their horse? :D
McJarvis 11-07-07, 05:59 PM	:nonono: Will no one let me kill their horse? :D On the bright side- I think this is the first use of the inquisitor feat in the arena :D
Hirumajoe 11-07-07, 05:59 PM	@Telin: Monster Info for Aquin: HUGE monster. That is all. Good luck. :) Edit: Am I supposed to give you monoped, biped, quadruped, etc info as well?
Vathelokai 11-07-07, 06:01 PM	@T10: This week, Lorian will fight a small undead humanoid. EDIT: Link
TelinArtho 11-07-07, 06:04 PM	@Telin: Monster Info for Aquin: HUGE monster. That is all. Good luck. :) Edit: Am I supposed to give you monoped, biped, quadruped, etc info as well? You are supposed to give a "brief description" Personally - I generally give the number of walking limbs (as above - biped, quadruped, multiped). Admitedly, I don't usually qualify the "monopeds" since it is likely not entirely true. Anyway - I can work with whatever, Aquin's tactics are not so complicated.
Vathelokai 11-07-07, 06:07 PM	Question for elders/GM: Can I use unearthed arcana for monsters with classes? This violates the 'monsters can't get credit stuff' rule. But it would be fun. Allowed?
MindWandererB 11-07-07, 06:08 PM	Question for elders/GM: Can I use unearthed arcana for monsters with classes? This violates the 'monsters can't get credit stuff' rule. But it would be fun. Allowed? Nope. Talk about really driving a player crazy....
McJarvis 11-07-07, 06:08 PM	Question for elders/GM: Can I use unearthed arcana for monsters with classes? This violates the 'monsters can't get credit stuff' rule. But it would be fun. Allowed? Is there really a "monsters can't use credits" rule? I didn't see it a few weeks ago and bought a monster gloves of dex +1.
MindWandererB 11-07-07, 06:11 PM	Is there really a "monsters can't use credits" rule? I didn't see it a few weeks ago and bought a monster gloves of dex +1. Here: Pitlords assign monster equipment according to DMG p. 127, table 4-23 (or see table below) where the CR of the monster is the "NPC level". A treasure entry of 'None' means the monster has no equipment at all, but if the treasure entry says anything else, the monster gets standard equipment for its CR. Monsters cannot have any items which are unavailable to PCs without credits. For items which are restricted by ECL, use the monster's CR instead.
Hirumajoe 11-07-07, 06:11 PM	You are supposed to give a "brief description" Personally - I generally give the number of walking limbs (as above - biped, quadruped, multiped). Admitedly, I don't usually qualify the "monopeds" since it is likely not entirely true. Anyway - I can work with whatever, Aquin's tactics are not so complicated. In that case, its a Huge quadruped monster. But yeah, I figure with Aquin's build, tactics aren't going to change that much with this new information.
Rauul 11-07-07, 06:13 PM	@Nurlithion Tactics for Gol'ie sent... should be fast
TelinArtho 11-07-07, 06:17 PM	Just for kicks (not something I usually do, but hey), I took a look over the ECL9 list and these are the huge creatures: Delver Triceratops Hydra (10-headed) Pyro/Cryo Hydra (8-headed) Celestial Bulette Half-Dragon Elasmosaurus Phrenic Bulette (non-quadrupeds) Yrthak Half-Dragon Black Pudding Half-Celestial Remorhaz (didn't include the umber hulk on here - don't know if it is large or huge - but I assumed large - not a quadruped anyway though). Looking over all of them - the only one where my tactics really change are for the things with breath weapons - but since I wouldn't be able to narrow them down really - it wouldn't make a difference. Should be interesting - I'll give it that.
McJarvis 11-07-07, 06:27 PM	Here: Might want to repeat that in the part about "Andy's big six". That's really where I was looking for equipment guidelines.
Macbrea 11-07-07, 06:29 PM	Tactic's for Lord Matsuni have been sent... Will have to stare at Yorick's plans for a bit. He is a tad odd...
Hirumajoe 11-07-07, 06:42 PM	In regards to the Elrick vs Valen fight: Just want some stuff clarified for both sides before writing tactics: Grimlock (Elrick's flying mount Direbat) has been affected by Reduce Animal. Was this done with or without its exotic saddle on? If the saddle was on, then its size was reduced one step, and should not be usable for its designed rider, right? (Implying a -5 to ride checks, since its effectively bareback. Although, given that this a flying mount, are there any other considerations?. If it wasn't on, then the saddle is still full size and weighs 40 lbs. Given that in reduced form, Grimlock can only carry 86 lbs, his rider weighs 40 lbs and is carrying 13 lbs of gear, not to mention the 10 lbs of armor on Grimlock, would put it into the medium encumbrance category, unable to fly. I presume the former is the case, as the later is doesn't seem advantageous.
Rauul 11-07-07, 07:04 PM	@templer10 tactics for Platon sent... Should be interesting.. Edit=> I acually miss having a Quest to work on...:waits: :hides:
McJarvis 11-07-07, 08:01 PM	@Eam & Whitebaron: tactics sent for my characters. Should be an interesting week.
hogarth 11-07-07, 09:01 PM	In regards to the Elrick vs Valen fight: Just want some stuff clarified for both sides before writing tactics: Grimlock (Elrick's flying mount Direbat) has been affected by Reduce Animal. Was this done with or without its exotic saddle on? If the saddle was on, then its size was reduced one step, and should not be usable for its designed rider, right? (Implying a -5 to ride checks, since its effectively bareback. Although, given that this a flying mount, are there any other considerations?. If it wasn't on, then the saddle is still full size and weighs 40 lbs. Given that in reduced form, Grimlock can only carry 86 lbs, his rider weighs 40 lbs and is carrying 13 lbs of gear, not to mention the 10 lbs of armor on Grimlock, would put it into the medium encumbrance category, unable to fly. I presume the former is the case, as the later is doesn't seem advantageous. I don't think that saddles have different sizes for different riders; an animal is either saddled or not. I'd be willing to listen to arguments to the contrary, though; please cite your sources.
McJarvis 11-07-07, 09:06 PM	I don't think that saddles have different sizes for different riders; an animal is either saddled or not. I'd be willing to listen to arguments to the contrary, though; please cite your sources. I think the source is that we make up a house-rule every time the rules don't correspond to reality ;)
Hirumajoe 11-07-07, 09:10 PM	I don't think that saddles have different sizes for different riders; an animal is either saddled or not. I'd be willing to listen to arguments to the contrary, though; please cite your sources. Looking closer in the SRD, I can find nothing indicating saddles are sized at all either for rider or for mount. Which is really wierd. So an exotic military saddle for a small mount and a tiny rider apparently weighs as much as an exotic riding saddle for a large rider on a huge mount. Simply 40 lbs. So I'm really confused now. Does the military saddle drop in weight when the mount is shrunk? And if so, why can't we use lighter military saddles on smaller creatures? Or does it become non-functional if its not the right weight/size? :confused: Edit: @McJarvis: So by raw, the saddle weighs 40 lbs no matter the size of the mount, and thus Reduce Animal makes Grimlock unable to fly when mounted? (40 lb saddle, 10 lb (medium mithril chain), 40 lb rider, 13 lbs gear = 103 lbs = medium encumbrance)?
McJarvis 11-07-07, 09:17 PM	Edit: @McJarvis: So by raw, the saddle weighs 40 lbs no matter the size of the mount, and thus Reduce Animal makes Grimlock unable to fly when mounted? (40 lb saddle, 10 lb (medium mithril chain), 40 lb rider, 13 lbs gear = 103 lbs = medium encumbrance)? Does equipment normally scale like that? I'd say if wondrous items don't scale then saddles don't scale & vice versa, RAW. When I made my comment I was just tryin to be funny- I hadn't really read what you guys were talkin about ;) [unless there is a specific ruling I'm missing here- in which case I'd just go with that]
Luni 11-07-07, 09:35 PM	@whitebaron: Tactics for Grumsh sent. I don't think it is going to end in the first round like last week though.
hogarth 11-07-07, 09:38 PM	Looking closer in the SRD, I can find nothing indicating saddles are sized at all either for rider or for mount. Which is really wierd. So an exotic military saddle for a small mount and a tiny rider apparently weighs as much as an exotic riding saddle for a large rider on a huge mount. Simply 40 lbs. So I'm really confused now. Does the military saddle drop in weight when the mount is shrunk? It kind of implies it: This spell causes instant diminution of a humanoid creature, halving its height, length, and width and dividing its weight by 8. ... All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly reduced by the spell. And if so, why can't we use lighter military saddles on smaller creatures? That's a good question. Similarly, you could ask why a small creature's armor weighs 1/2 as much instead of 1/8 as much.
SauroGrenom 11-07-07, 10:37 PM	Macbrea, Tactics for Kracknol are submitted.
Vathelokai 11-08-07, 12:22 AM	I was hoping something like this would happen. I'm not even sure if it works. I had marius prebuff with "expend psionic focus for vs bluff attempt in case of skill packages". Can I use this to ward off the assassinate from Zodiac 2? [I have the inquisitor feat] Can an elder or GM chime in on this? I'm kind of biased...
Eamane 11-08-07, 12:59 AM	Can an elder or GM chime in on this? I'm kind of biased... Hmm. I wasn't allowed to use Moment of Clarity to negate a burglary attempt, but I wasn't trying to prebuff it. Imho, it should work, yes. But precedence? No. Suggested course of action: Ask in the appropriate thread to get elder weigh in and true vote, as this is the second time it's come up, it's clearly not just an isolated circumstance.
MindWandererB 11-08-07, 01:19 AM	Can an elder or GM chime in on this? I'm kind of biased...I'm hesitant, but I'm leaning towards allowing it. Mainly because Inquisitor is a pretty useless feat otherwise.
Eluria 11-08-07, 02:08 AM	@wb: tactics sent for Needle v Grumsh; should be way easier than the ffa!
lonewolf 11-08-07, 03:48 AM	@Taureus: tactics vs crazy fey is out. The week I hire a melee mercenary I get paired with a pixie. go figure...
mucki 11-08-07, 04:10 AM	But you can easily check the "edited by" bit at the bottom to see if I've updated since the deadline. Are those times in local time (ie: my timezone) ? Anyway, it isn't really important. Usually i just read the FotW thread until I find your post that "pairings are done". The only situation where it is helpful is when I am trying to quickly see if its done, while playing computer games at the side on wednesday evening :)
mucki 11-08-07, 04:21 AM	Btw McJarvis, even though I like being Gladiator of the Month, I realized that your reasoning concerning ECL3 should also apply to our team. Namely that this was our first 3 fights, and therefore our base 1000 PR probably wasn't really representative. so maybe it would be more fair to extend the ECL3 rule to teams (ie: only startECL+1 fights).
McJarvis 11-08-07, 07:19 AM	Btw McJarvis, even though I like being Gladiator of the Month, I realized that your reasoning concerning ECL3 should also apply to our team. Namely that this was our first 3 fights, and therefore our base 1000 PR probably wasn't really representative. so maybe it would be more fair to extend the ECL3 rule to teams (ie: only startECL+1 fights). I was thinking about that: but I'm not entirely sure how to impliment it. Technically Aquin shouldn't be on the list either since he was created at a higher ECL. Maybe you *should* have to have 1 3FC under your belt in order to be reported on in this fashion. Anyone else have comments on that?
McJarvis 11-08-07, 07:22 AM	I'm hesitant, but I'm leaning towards allowing it. Mainly because Inquisitor is a pretty useless feat otherwise. After reading the feat more in depth, I think it should be used this way: You have to expend your focus before every fight[this doesn't affect marius since he doesn't use his focus in combat]. the feat says you have to expend your focus regardless of whether your opponent is bluffing you- so I'll word it that way in the future. It's pretty obvious what my intention was in this regard(to make minor use of a part of my character I otherwise don't use)- so this shouldn't change my fight.
mucki 11-08-07, 07:28 AM	I was thinking about that: but I'm not entirely sure how to impliment it. Technically Aquin shouldn't be on the list either since he was created at a higher ECL. Maybe you *should* have to have 1 3FC under your belt in order to be reported on in this fashion. Anyone else have comments on that? Well, since you likely want to keep it simple I see 2 options: a) number of fights (3 or 5 seems reasonable). You would have to look at the previous fight section to see how many there are b) only count characters/parties that have advanced at least one ECL. You would need some way to track the ECL where they started out. The number of fights is probably easiest. To make counting it easier, one could of course assign a (Newbie) tag to new characters that gets removed after the required number of fights.
whitebaron 11-08-07, 07:29 AM	Can an elder or GM chime in on this? I'm kind of biased... as the pitlord, i'll allow it in this fight. though for the future, it has to be made clear, that you have to expend the focus for sure, not on a condition. the only condition allowed is "when attacker" and "when defender", as you don't know it beforehand. --edit-- after reading mcj's post, i'd say that it should be possible to prebuff such things - but they are always expended, whether you need it or not.
McJarvis 11-08-07, 07:30 AM	Hmm. I wasn't allowed to use Moment of Clarity to negate a burglary attempt, but I wasn't trying to prebuff it. Imho, it should work, yes. But precedence? No. Suggested course of action: Ask in the appropriate thread to get elder weigh in and true vote, as this is the second time it's come up, it's clearly not just an isolated circumstance. I think my suggestion in my post just a few posts before this one will help make the difference between these two. Since Marius will be expending his focus EVERY battle regardless of skill packages, it would make sense that if (say) an assasin used "conceal thoughts" every battle he'd get a +10 to his bluff check. edit- In the case that an opponent has MULTIPLE bluff vs sense motive checks, I'd say the pitlord has to roll randomly to decide which one happens. Giving it as a choice to either player doesn't make sense. [since if you give it to the skill-user, then he could have just "fiented skill packaged" before using his real skill package, and if you give it to the defender then he could just not use the prebuff if there were none, since he obviously has a choice]
McJarvis 11-08-07, 07:33 AM	Well, since you likely want to keep it simple I see 2 options: a) number of fights (3 or 5 seems reasonable). You would have to look at the previous fight section to see how many there are b) only count characters/parties that have advanced at least one ECL. You would need some way to track the ECL where they started out. The number of fights is probably easiest. To make counting it easier, one could of course assign a (Newbie) tag to new characters that gets removed after the required number of fights. I think it's easy enough to see how many fights they have. I end up manually recording over their PR every battle anyway. So I won't include ECL3 OR fighters with 3 or fewer fights.
McJarvis 11-08-07, 07:34 AM	as the pitlord, i'll allow it in this fight. though for the future, it has to be made clear, that you have to expend the focus for sure, not on a condition. the only condition allowed is "when attacker" and "when defender", as you don't know it beforehand. --edit-- after reading mcj's post, i'd say that it should be possible to prebuff such things - but they are always expended, whether you need it or not. @WB: I'll need to you read over my tactics and let me know if they're legal/possible. I'm not sure on some of the "timing" issues.
whitebaron 11-08-07, 07:51 AM	@WB: I'll need to you read over my tactics and let me know if they're legal/possible. I'm not sure on some of the "timing" issues. not all of your tricks will work. only the second one will.
Macbrea 11-08-07, 09:19 AM	Technically Aquin shouldn't be on the list either since he was created at a higher ECL. Technically, Aquin probably shouldn't have been on the list for a totally different reason. His griffon on that fight was determined to be a tad incorrect and should have been a hippogriffon. Slight difference between those two. :P
TelinArtho 11-08-07, 09:27 AM	Technically, Aquin probably shouldn't have been on the list for a totally different reason. His griffon on that fight was determined to be a tad incorrect and should have been a hippogriffon. Slight difference between those two. :P And let's not forget that you still would have lost had it been the hippogriff... :P
Macbrea 11-08-07, 09:47 AM	Heh.. possibly.. though, I would have probably killed the stupid hippogriffon.. :P
McJarvis 11-08-07, 09:50 AM	Revised tactics for Marius are away.
TelinArtho 11-08-07, 10:13 AM	@Luni - tactics for Kraegin are away. Good luck to my opponent. @Hirumajoe - tactics for Aquin are also away. Good luck to my budding young Sahuagin facing some huge creature...
TelinArtho 11-08-07, 10:24 AM	Heh.. possibly.. though, I would have probably killed the stupid hippogriffon.. :P Well - the AoO and 2nd attack Izumi had would still have missed. The 1st attack still would have hit for 26. This would leave the hippogriff with 5hp... On Aquin's/Ferocity's attacks - Aquin would still hit just as much - so that doesn't change. On the charge, Ferocity would have only had one attack (instead of the pounce). The first attack would have missed. In the following round, Ferocity would miss with the first attack, but I think the second attack (AC26) would still hit (for 1d4+6 instead of 1d4+2). The bite would miss. At that point, you've taken 36+the claw damage (7) damage... Yeah - Ferocity would probably be dead (two attacks +10/+5 vs AC21? not a guarantee at least...)
whitebaron 11-08-07, 10:59 AM	@MWB: one of Verren's fights was not recorded. he is currently @ fight 7, though only 5 previous are in the roster...
Macbrea 11-08-07, 11:31 AM	I went ahead and activated her for the 14th.
Salrantol 11-08-07, 11:35 AM	@waywreth: Since neither Felice nor Inzin is built to take much advantage of the lighting issues, would you be willing to dispense with lighting features to make the fight easier on whitebaron (especially since I expect we'll both be pretty actively looking to engage--if I'm wrong just say no)?
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 11:57 AM	@Hogarth (or any any elder I suppose): So your last comment on the size/weight issue wasn't clear on which way you were leaning (or if you were leaning at all). Basically I just which option is occurring in the fight: 1) Reduced Grimlock is only carrying 40/8 = 5lbs worth of exotic military saddle and the saddle is perfectly usable - so flying at medium size no problem. 2) Reduced Grimlock is only carrying 40/8 = 5lbs worth of exotic military saddle, but is not usable because of size changes (since it doesn't meet the listed weight in the SRD for being a military saddle) - so flying but at -5 Ride penalty 3) Reduced Grimlock is carrying 40 lbs worth of exotic military saddle, with its armor (10 lbs), rider (40 lbs) and gear (12.5 lbs) puts it over its 86 lb capacity (at 17 strength, medium sized). I don't care which one, just so that I know what to write tactics for. Second question: There are buildings on the map without apparent doors or windows. Can we enter them? (Magically or mundanely - say with an Adamantium door opener). Are there shadows in the interior of buildings? And does LOS or LOE matter to a shadow dancer's Hide in Plain Sight ability and the existance of shadows within 10'? The ability doesn't seem to indicate: As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. Given the existance of the Shadow jump ability (Dimension door like) which doesn't necessarily require LOS or LOE (just knowledge of the presence of shadows) it doesn't seem like LOS or LOE is necessarily a requirement. P.S. Just trying to consider all my options and prevent as many arguments after the fight as possible, hence my open questioning. Thanks.
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 12:24 PM	@Telin: Tactics received. In regards to outfitting the huge quadruped, what am I allowed to buy it? Would gauntlets of ogre strength (+2) be allowed on front feet?
hogarth 11-08-07, 12:30 PM	@Hogarth (or any any elder I suppose): So your last comment on the size/weight issue wasn't clear on which way you were leaning (or if you were leaning at all). Basically I just which option is occurring in the fight: 1) Reduced Grimlock is only carrying 40/8 = 5lbs worth of exotic military saddle and the saddle is perfectly usable - so flying at medium size no problem. 2) Reduced Grimlock is only carrying 40/8 = 5lbs worth of exotic military saddle, but is not usable because of size changes (since it doesn't meet the listed weight in the SRD for being a military saddle) - so flying but at -5 Ride penalty 3) Reduced Grimlock is carrying 40 lbs worth of exotic military saddle, with its armor (10 lbs), rider (40 lbs) and gear (12.5 lbs) puts it over its 86 lb capacity (at 17 strength, medium sized). I don't care which one, just so that I know what to write tactics for. I'm leaning towards #1 (as nonsensical as it might seem). If an elder wants to express an opinion in the Courtroom, I'll go with that, however. Second question: There buildings on the map without apparent doors or windows. Can we enter them? (Magically or mundanely - say with an Adamantium door opener). Are there shadows in the interior of buildings? And does LOS or LOE matter to a shadow dancer's Hide in Plain Sight ability and the existance of shadows within 10'? The ability doesn't seem to indicate: Given the existance of the Shadow jump ability (Dimension door like) which doesn't necessarily require LOS or LOE (just knowledge of the presence of shadows) it doesn't seem like LOS or LOE is necessarily a requirement. P.S. Just trying to consider all my options and prevent as many arguments after the fight as possible, hence my open questioning. Thanks. I'm not sure about building interiors in the City map. I would say that you need line of effect to a shadow; otherwise you could carry around a light-proof box at all times and say "it's shadowy inside the box, isn't it?". :) Note that (due to the lighting conditions) there are very few spots on the map for this fight which won't have shadows within 10' (the central square and some of the street squares with a building on one side). I suggest asking these questions in the Courtroom to be on the safe side.
templer10 11-08-07, 12:42 PM	Note that (due to the lighting conditions) there are very few spots on the map for this fight which won't have shadows within 10' (the central square and some of the street squares with a building on one side). I suggest asking these questions in the Courtroom to be on the safe side. About the saddle Issue - I don't understand what's the Big confusion here - Reduce animal works like reduce person (it say so right in the SRD). In reduce person: "This spell causes instant diminution of a humanoid creature, halving its height, length, and width and dividing its weight by 8." i.e - Weight goes to 1/8. and then continues to - "All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly reduced by the spell". I.e. - Saddle and Armor are both reduced by 8 - it's perfectly plain english. About the shadows thing... like Hogarth said- IMHO - trying to say - i think there is a sahdow there so i will try to go there - what happen if There isn't Shadow? the idea is to pass from shadow to shadow, in order to pass from said shadow to said shadow - you ened to KNOW it's there. on the other hand it will probably not matter since there really are a lot of shadows.... at least in theory....
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 12:54 PM	About the saddle Issue - I don't understand what's the Big confusion here - Reduce animal works like reduce person (it say so right in the SRD). In reduce person: "This spell causes instant diminution of a humanoid creature, halving its height, length, and width and dividing its weight by 8." i.e - Weight goes to 1/8. and then continues to - "All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly reduced by the spell". I.e. - Saddle and Armor are both reduced by 8 - it's perfectly plain english. But now your saddle which was presumably was designed for a small rider is now 1/2th the size - how do you sit on the thing? Remember, it not just your now smaller mount thats using it, its the non-shrunk rider trying to use it. Thats my fundamental confusion. Since exotic military saddles only come in one weight, 40 lbs, is it still functional? Or does it act like weapons and armor, which have explicitly different weights from the 1/8th value. Since a medium mount's exotic saddle seems to weigh 40lbs as well, what do you use? About the shadows thing... like Hogarth said- IMHO - trying to say - i think there is a sahdow there so i will try to go there - what happen if There isn't Shadow? the idea is to pass from shadow to shadow, in order to pass from said shadow to said shadow - you ened to KNOW it's there. on the other hhand it will probably not matter since there really are a lot of shadows.... at least in theory.... Well, I'm more concerned with the daylight spell that Elrick is going to cast as his last buff action. :) Its an emanation, so it also requires LOE. I.e. it won't light up around corners or through walls. Hence my question regarding buildings. If there are no shadows inside the buildings, then this gets harder to track, since I can't get within 60ish feet of you before losing the stealth condition, where as the other way I've got about 40' of leeway. And Hogarth then has to keep track of angles if you're flying to figure out which squares still have some shadow. (Presumably unless you're directly overhead or to the open side of the wall, there's going to be some shadow left at the edge of buidlings).
templer10 11-08-07, 01:05 PM	But now your saddle which was presumably was designed for a small rider is now 1/2th the size - how do you sit on the thing? Remember, it not just your now smaller mount thats using it, its the non-shrunk rider trying to use it. Thats my fundamental confusion. Since exotic military saddles only come in one weight, 40 lbs, is it still functional? Or does it act like weapons and armor, which have explicitly different weights from the 1/8th value. Since a medium mount's exotic saddle seems to weigh 40lbs as well, what do you use? Here is where you are wrong - There aren't Diffrent types of saddles in the SRD for Diffrent sized creatures - so there is no saddle "Designed for a small creature" - it's the same exact saddle used for small/medium creatures - it's exacly the same question as if a small creature can ride a large mount, the only limiting factor is wheter or not the mount is large enough and the saddle is fitted per the MOUNT, not per the rider so no problem. also - since there is no listed price for a Small sized creature in the SRD - such as a spesific saddle doesnt exist so it means there is only one size of saddle.
templer10 11-08-07, 03:08 PM	Hogarth & vath - tactics for lorian/Elrick are out.
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 03:10 PM	@Hogarth: Tactics for Valen (in the Elrick vs Valen fight) are out. And you have my apologies. Edit: Now I'm really curious as to Elrick's tactics...
templer10 11-08-07, 04:16 PM	@Hogarth: Tactics for Valen (in the Elrick vs Valen fight) are out. And you have my apologies. Edit: Now I'm really curious as to Elrick's tactics... Hoping you wont change them - i assumed you wouldn't try for melee since you cant really get to me So it's mostly buffs, dispell, faerie fire (get rid of at least some of the hiding ability- i always can pinpoint you at the very least), little bit of summons and Nukage, didnt do anything 2 fancy. added some standart anti sneak tactics - ready actions, dire bats etc. and now IAM curios - what so bad you did to poor hogarth?
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 04:27 PM	Hoping you wont change them - i assumed you wouldn't try for melee since you cant really get to me So it's mostly buffs, dispell, faerie fire (get rid of at least some of the hiding ability- i always can pinpoint you at the very least), little bit of summons and Nukage, didnt do anything 2 fancy. added some standart anti sneak tactics - ready actions, dire bats etc. and now IAM curios - what so bad you did to poor hogarth? Hide and Snipe in Harpy form from 200' ish distance. Its auto-hide while sniping. So it comes down to listen checks of roughly -2 vs -8... Which prevents absolute pinpointing, but does give direction. The 80' average flight speed should keep me ahead of your 40' move speed. With boosts up to 110' in emergencies. It'll probably come down to which summons you use and how you use them.
Turanson 11-08-07, 04:44 PM	@Nurlithion Tactics for Mineau sent, hopefully this will be pay back.
templer10 11-08-07, 04:57 PM	Hide and Snipe in Harpy form from 200' ish distance. Its auto-hide while sniping. So it comes down to listen checks of roughly -2 vs -8... Which prevents absolute pinpointing, but does give direction. The 80' average flight speed should keep me ahead of your 40' move speed. With boosts up to 110' in emergencies. It'll probably come down to which summons you use and how you use them. Dude - sorry to tell you - You cant snipe while flying with Average maneuverability- doing a snipe is a standard (attack) and move (hide) with average maneuverability you need to move Half you speed EVERY round - in order to stay flying, I.e. - you have no free move actions to Hide after the shot.
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 04:59 PM	Dude - sorry to tell you - You cant snipe while flying with Average maneuverability- doing a snipe is a standard (attack) and move (hide) with average maneuverability you need to move Half you speed EVERY round - in order to stay flying, I.e. - you have no free move actions to Hide after the shot. Presumably, he lands on top of a building. I suggested he be flying at exactly 0' above the building roofs. You actually used to be able to *turn* in the middle of flying by landing in the middle of a move, but that got removed. But as far as I know, you're allowed to land at the end of a move, and take off at the beginning. So round 1 - Fly 160' and land. Round 2 - Snipe. Round 3 - Take off and fly 160', landing again at the end.
templer10 11-08-07, 05:06 PM	Presumably, he lands on top of a building. I suggested he be flying at exactly 0' above the building roofs. You actually used to be able to *turn* in the middle of flying by landing, but that got removed. But as far as I know, you're allowed to land at the end of a move, and take off at the beginning. So round 1 - Fly 160' and land. Round 2 - Snipe. Round 3 - Take off and fly 160', landing again at the end. Might work - But I doubt that for enough time - landing on buildings every other round and you having to pay in 5 feet movement for every 45 degree turn you make and the Even slower then me going up rate i think should bring us closer then 200 and i only need to get you to range of 60 and i autospot (unless you dispel?). on the other hand - you will probably succeed in driving poor hogarth insane...
McJarvis 11-08-07, 05:13 PM	Might work - But I doubt that for enough time - landing on buildings every other round and you having to pay in 5 feet movement for every 45 degree turn you make and the Even slower then me going up rate i think should bring us closer then 200 and i only need to get you to range of 60 and i autospot (unless you dispel?). on the other hand - you will probably succeed in driving poor hogarth insane... technically he only needs to land on buildings once every 10 rounds... ;)
templer10 11-08-07, 05:17 PM	technically he only needs to land on buildings once every 10 rounds... ;) actualy once every round - he can only snipe if he isnt flying with average mauverability so it's one round (or more) move, 1 round snipe.
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 05:18 PM	Might work - But I doubt that for enough time - landing on buildings every other round and you having to pay in 5 feet movement for every 45 degree turn you make and the Even slower then me going up rate i think should bring us closer then 200. on the other hand - you will probably succeed in driving poor hogarth insane... I only need to move when Elrick and company are obviously moving in Valen's direction because they heard the last shot or they just happen to be wandering close. Its likely that Valen will be able to take two or more sniper shots before needing to move. Given buffs that last 70 rounds and assuming one round of movement to one round of sniping (which is a reasonable guess), thats roughly 30 effective sniping rounds (taking into account buffing time). Assuming Barkskin is up, no bonus for being invisible (not sure if it counts in this situation for Valen), and no Dex, Elrick has an AC of 26 (since he can't ride for cover not knowing the attack is coming). Valen should have +15 bonus to hit, -2 to -4 for range, yielding hits on 13s or 15s. Dealing 8.5 average per hit, that should be at least 9 hits for 76.5, or enough to kill Elrick. If its 13s, then I expect 12 hits for 102 damage. Note that average manueverability only pays 5' if it wants to turn 90 degrees in a single 5' segment. As long as I'm making 45 degree turns, I can make them for free every 5' I move. And once I'm at 20' high, don't have to change altitude at all. Besides, 80' a move action is alot of speed to play with. Lastly, I don't *need* to maintain half speed if I'm not actually planning on staying aloft at the end of the move. :) I'm hoping that he'll be able to speed roll most of it, but we'll see.
McJarvis 11-08-07, 05:18 PM	actualy once every round - he can only snipe if he isnt flying with average mauverability so it's one round (or more) move, 1 round snipe. that's what I meant. He can fly 9 rounds to evade- land & snipe - fly 9 rounds to evade....
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 05:20 PM	that's what I meant. He can fly 9 rounds to evade- land & snipe - fly 9 rounds to evade.... I sincerely hope that doesn't happen. I want to be sniping every round possible. Given the 160' double move, it shouldn't be that bad. I figure two rounds of movement, two rounds of sniping should be about average before he's forced to move again. If it was once every ten rounds, I'd be getting 7 snipes off... No where near enough to take him down.
templer10 11-08-07, 05:28 PM	I sincerely hope that doesn't happen. I want to be sniping every round possible. Given the 160' double move, it shouldn't be that bad. I figure two rounds of movement, two rounds of sniping should be about average before he's forced to move again. If it was once every ten rounds, I'd be getting 7 snipes off... No where near enough to take him down. Btw- this might be the time to mention i have a healing contingency Which is interrupt proof (if you stay at range anyway) and a full CLW wand? - this is going to be a VERY long fight.
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 05:39 PM	Btw- this might be the time to mention i have a healing contingency Which is interrupt proof (if you stay at range anyway) and a full CLW wand? - this is going to be a VERY long fight. Knew I forgot something. I guess it depends on how clumpy the roller decides to be. Out of curiosity, whats the damage trigger level? Half hit points?
MindWandererB 11-08-07, 05:40 PM	@Taureus: tactics vs crazy fey is out. The week I hire a melee mercenary I get paired with a pixie. go figure... Actually, no, you didn't. Not prebuffed, no mention of the merc on your sheet = no merc. My tactics are already out and made no account of the invisible mercenary. Re: building interiors: I guess it isn't mentioned on the map description, but building exteriors are assumed to be impermeable.
templer10 11-08-07, 05:55 PM	Knew I forgot something. I guess it depends on how clumpy the roller decides to be. Out of curiosity, whats the damage trigger level? Half hit points? 28 - activates a sleet storm and heal to full - you cant do anything about it unless you get a confirmed max damage crit at exacly the right time. you got enough PPS to rebuff metamorphosis?
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 06:04 PM	28 - activates a sleet storm and heal to full - you cant do anything about it unless you get a confirmed max damage crit at exacly the right time. you got enough PPS to rebuff metamorphosis? Nope. Once the 70 rounds on metamorphosis are up, he drops the weak bow, picks up the 1d8+5 damage bow, finds a good spot, and lets loose with hasted rapid fire full attack actions. I figure at that point he goes down relatively quickly, as his only buff left is Chameleon, I think. (Maybe offensive prescience and offsenive precognition for a round or two as well). Although, I did have a clause in there if I didn't see you early on to manifest touch sight. I have no clue how Hogarth is going to improvise that section with the sleet storm. Edit: Although it wouldn't have to be a max damage crit, since thats 36 damage, would only need a somewhat above average one. :D
lonewolf 11-08-07, 07:07 PM	Actually, no, you didn't. Not prebuffed, no mention of the merc on your sheet = no merc. My tactics are already out and made no account of the invisible mercenary. Re: building interiors: I guess it isn't mentioned on the map description, but building exteriors are assumed to be impermeable. While I didnt thought that it was needed to prebuff the merc, it does make sense. I would just have written a pm to my opponent informing him about the merc but I thought it wasnt necessary because you already knew. In this case I actually like it, because he wasnt going to be much help anyway and now I save the money.
MindWandererB 11-08-07, 07:19 PM	While I didnt thought that it was needed to prebuff the merc, it does make sense. I would just have written a pm to my opponent informing him about the merc but I thought it wasnt necessary because you already knew. In this case I actually like it, because he wasnt going to be much help anyway and now I save the money. Never assume I know anything, regardless. I can't remember everything about the >120 characters on the roster. @Eamane: Tactics are out for Gakhnalak. This is the second time I've fought that $*&% derro in poor lighting....
Taureus_Drakken 11-08-07, 07:43 PM	@ My Fighters: All tactics received, getting started as soon as I clear up an invisibility issue. ~Taureus~
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 08:03 PM	@Templer10: Tactics for Kai Engel in the FFA sent.
MindWandererB 11-08-07, 08:16 PM	@MWB: one of Verren's fights was not recorded. he is currently @ fight 7, though only 5 previous are in the roster... Got it. Missed his last fight somehow.
Rauul 11-08-07, 09:00 PM	@Eamane: Tactics are out for Gakhnalak. This is the second time I've fought that $*&% derro in poor lighting.... Well it's not that bad... since darkvison don't help in dim light.. Elf sight would be nice tho...
TelinArtho 11-08-07, 09:07 PM	Never assume I know anything, regardless. I can't remember everything about the >120 characters on the roster. And yet everyone remembers some vague notion that my dice like to kill people... Go figure
Rauul 11-08-07, 10:58 PM	And yet everyone remembers some vague notion that my dice like to kill people... Go figure Well when your dice have killed 200+ characters... it makes an Impression.. usually in the seat of your pants with all the players wanting to kick you there!!
Vathelokai 11-08-07, 11:42 PM	Since T10 easily guessed the 'monster' he is fighting this week, I figured I'd publicly ask for asssistance with the rules about it. For a forest gnome lich, how much of the the gnome racial abilities do they loose when their type changes to undead? Is there a FAQ clarification or something? They normaly get the following stuff... pass w/o trace (class lv = CL) +1 to hit reptiles, goblinoids, and orcs auto lang: gnome, elven, sylvan, burrowing animal. Bonus: draconic, common +4 hide, +8 in woods +2 con, -2 str small (+1, +/-4, three quarters encumber) spd 20 low light vision +2 saves vs illusion +1 DC illusion +4 dodge giants +2 listen, alchemy spell likes: dancing lights, ghost sound, pretidig ... I could see loosing some of it, but the languages, probably not (speaking with animals is not magical for forest gnomes, like it is for regular gnomes). Would they have their stat changes 'reversed'? The bonus to hit and dodge certain creatures? I'm at a loss.
Hirumajoe 11-08-07, 11:49 PM	Since T10 easily guessed the 'monster' he is fighting this week, I figured I'd publicly ask for asssistance with the rules about it. For a forest gnome lich, how much of the the gnome racial abilities do they loose when their type changes to undead? Is there a FAQ clarification or something? They normaly get the following stuff... pass w/o trace (class lv = CL) +1 to hit reptiles, goblinoids, and orcs auto lang: gnome, elven, sylvan, burrowing animal. Bonus: draconic, common +4 hide, +8 in woods +2 con, -2 str small (+1, +/-4, three quarters encumber) spd 20 low light vision +2 saves vs illusion +1 DC illusion +4 dodge giants +2 listen, alchemy spell likes: dancing lights, ghost sound, pretidig ... I could see loosing some of it, but the languages, probably not (speaking with animals is not magical for forest gnomes, like it is for regular gnomes). Would they have their stat changes 'reversed'? The bonus to hit and dodge certain creatures? I'm at a loss. The lich template specifically states "The lich has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here." So basically it should keep everything, since the Lich template description doesn't remove anything (as far as I know). Except maybe the con bonus, since it gets set to --. But they're still at -2 str for example.
Rauul 11-09-07, 12:23 AM	Since T10 easily guessed the 'monster' he is fighting this week, I figured I'd publicly ask for asssistance with the rules about it. For a forest gnome lich, how much of the the gnome racial abilities do they loose when their type changes to undead? Is there a FAQ clarification or something? They normaly get the following stuff... pass w/o trace (class lv = CL) +1 to hit reptiles, goblinoids, and orcs auto lang: gnome, elven, sylvan, burrowing animal. Bonus: draconic, common +4 hide, +8 in woods +2 con, -2 str small (+1, +/-4, three quarters encumber) spd 20 low light vision +2 saves vs illusion +1 DC illusion +4 dodge giants +2 listen, alchemy spell likes: dancing lights, ghost sound, pretidig ... I could see loosing some of it, but the languages, probably not (speaking with animals is not magical for forest gnomes, like it is for regular gnomes). Would they have their stat changes 'reversed'? The bonus to hit and dodge certain creatures? I'm at a loss. Wouldn't loose anything except for the fact that natural animals really wouldn't want anything to do with a undead creature... that whole aura of death thing..
whitebaron 11-09-07, 07:30 AM	@eamane+t10: tactics for gwerdan and verren sent. @my fights: all tactics received, to bad zodiac can't use burglary - seems he is always hindered to steal something when i'm the pitlord...
hogarth 11-09-07, 08:37 AM	@McJarvis: Tactics sent for Reginald Molehusband. I can't wait until Wednesday morning to see the result of the fight. ;) Any chance of finding out what monster was (presumably) rejected as an auto-win? @Hirumajoe: Request for clarification with Valen Sky's tactics sent.
McJarvis 11-09-07, 08:48 AM	@McJarvis: Tactics sent for Reginald Molehusband. I can't wait until Wednesday morning to see the result of the fight. ;) Any chance of finding out what monster was (presumably) rejected as an auto-win? Now, now- I haven't had any Wednesday morning specials in a long time. Tuesday, maybe- but I only waited that long because I didn't think the Krak fight would be fun :) lemme track down that monster info for ya. As I recall I *almost* went with the first roll, then decided last minute that it wouldn't stand a chance. edit- here it is: 45: 1 Ettin and 2 brown bears (animal) [CR 6 and 4] I think my initial logic was that the Ettin could at least be given a pot of flying or something: but the brown bears couldn't, so I rejected it. So far as I can tell this fight will be rejected anywhere but the sewers. [I didn't look at Reggy's sheet- but any gladiator ECL8 & up should have flight of some kind. I try to not look at gladiator's sheets as much as possible so I don't get influenced when I equip monsters.]
Macbrea 11-09-07, 09:01 AM	I am voting for if a monster is rejected 3 times it's out. We get another monster that can kill it's league. :P
templer10 11-09-07, 09:08 AM	Mcjarvis - tactics for Eternal dreamless sleep are out.
hogarth 11-09-07, 09:11 AM	Now, now- I haven't had any Wednesday morning specials in a long time. Tuesday, maybe- but I only waited that long because I didn't think the Krak fight would be fun :) Prepare to dazzle me with a fight that's completed before late Tuesday night, then. :) I don't know if I would've classified an ettin (with or without bears) as an auto-win, but I respect your decision.
McJarvis 11-09-07, 10:23 AM	I am voting for if a monster is rejected 3 times it's out. We get another monster that can kill it's league. :P I thought about submitting an entire monster list comprising of vampires, wraiths, shadows, and ghosts once.... ;)
Taureus_Drakken 11-09-07, 10:57 AM	I thought about submitting an entire monster list comprising of vampires, wraiths, shadows, and ghosts once.... ;) That's more horrible than you can imagine!!! But it reminds me of some of the changes I have been making to my Age of Worms campaign. :D @ T10: Tactics for Ackbar sent. ~Taureus~
McJarvis 11-09-07, 11:08 AM	That's more horrible than you can imagine!!! But it reminds me of some of the changes I have been making to my Age of Worms campaign. :D Oh? I was involved in an AoW play by post campaign for a bit. Unfortunately that got cancelled. I don't suppose anyone here would be interested in doing a pbp campaign that wasn't CoCo official? So we could use splat books? Or, more aptly put, I don't suppose anyone is interested in *DMing* such a campaign? :) I've got an Arcane Heirophant build that I am just ITCHING to RP out. ~McJ~
TelinArtho 11-09-07, 11:15 AM	I might have been interested - but you wouldn't want me for a DM... I don't generally allow more than the SRD (with some very rare exceptions...). And then of course there's always that pesky dice issue of mine that everyone hates to love...
TelinArtho 11-09-07, 11:19 AM	Well when your dice have killed 200+ characters... it makes an Impression.. usually in the seat of your pants with all the players wanting to kick you there!! That is just gross exaggeration. You can't count arena fights (since one side is required to die in order to have a result). For the record, I've had 17 quests fail in death (resulting in 20 character deaths) and 7 miniquests. That's 24 characters. Definitely not 200+...
lonewolf 11-09-07, 11:21 AM	Oh? I was involved in an AoW play by post campaign for a bit. Unfortunately that got cancelled. I don't suppose anyone here would be interested in doing a pbp campaign that wasn't CoCo official? So we could use splat books? Or, more aptly put, I don't suppose anyone is interested in *DMing* such a campaign? :) I've got an Arcane Heirophant build that I am just ITCHING to RP out. ~McJ~ well you could look at the Real adventures board (http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=278,). A couple of CoCo folks are also active there.
McJarvis 11-09-07, 11:29 AM	I might have been interested - but you wouldn't want me for a DM... I don't generally allow more than the SRD (with some very rare exceptions...). And then of course there's always that pesky dice issue of mine that everyone hates to love... I don't need access to much more than the prestige class & the SRD. My only interest in the prestige class is that it can be a "mystic theurge for sorcerer/druids that doesn't strip away all of their features". Of course, given that apparently I have a reputation for being too tough on monster fights- I probably shouldn't complain about "your dice". edit- Yeah, that RA stuff looks neat- I think 'Rith tried to get me into it once, but I already had a "real life" table top group I was with. Maybe now that I'm in an area that it's hard to get a game in I'll check it out.... edit2- Though I really would like a game where I felt like I knew all the players. If Telin DM'd a game and we could get a few Coco regulars in there, I'd be pretty darn happy- Arcane Heirophant or not.
Hirumajoe 11-09-07, 11:42 AM	edit2- Though I really would like a game where I felt like I knew all the players. If Telin DM'd a game and we could get a few Coco regulars in there, I'd be pretty darn happy- Arcane Heirophant or not. Well, I might be interested. I've kinda missed actually running errands for LOY. (Or being in a TT campaign for that matter). Although I'm willing to bet if Telin were to run it, it would have to be after the current CoCo campaign he's running wraps up. Not to mention a campaign idea is necessary. :)
TelinArtho 11-09-07, 11:51 AM	Well - considering I'm starting up a regular TT campaign (with 6 players), I won't have the time for an online campaign right now. I'm not short on ideas - but I always DM... I'd be much more interested in playing an actual character every now and again... Ironically enough, the last character I actually played was a character named "Telin Artho" - but that campaign hasn't had a game session in over 2 or 3 years now... He was a level 11 character in 3.0: Fighter 6/Wizard 3/Spellsword 2 - my first ever multi-classed character...
McJarvis 11-09-07, 11:56 AM	Hm. Anyone else interested in DMing? Hirm, Telen, and myself could be "confirmed" players :-) [Or so I got for the gist of their posts]
lonewolf 11-09-07, 12:00 PM	between Dming one TT group, playing in another, CoCo and a few games on the RA boards I also dont have the time to DM a game here. But I would also be interested in playing in one. :)
TelinArtho 11-09-07, 12:01 PM	It would depend on the timing of things - but yeah - I'd probably be interested. The bigger question is the starting point. I prefer games that start at ECL1 and move on up... which works great in my group (since we all do), but I gather it isn't all that common in the rest of the world...
Hirumajoe 11-09-07, 12:17 PM	It would depend on the timing of things - but yeah - I'd probably be interested. The bigger question is the starting point. I prefer games that start at ECL1 and move on up... which works great in my group (since we all do), but I gather it isn't all that common in the rest of the world... I don't mind low levels. Although ECL 2 or 3 might be slightly better, simply because 4 hit points on a mage isn't much. :) Heck, if its more RP based, I might get my wife to join. She used to be big into play by e-mail games. And is more of a RPer than a number cruncher.
Eamane 11-09-07, 12:18 PM	It would depend on the timing of things - but yeah - I'd probably be interested. The bigger question is the starting point. I prefer games that start at ECL1 and move on up... which works great in my group (since we all do), but I gather it isn't all that common in the rest of the world... My real life group (when I had it) did several campaigns that started at level one, then we branched out into starting at higher levels; which makes more sense in some settings than others. In FR for instance, if you dont start out at a higher level you are probably being a bit silly one way or another. But yeah, I'm active on the RA portion of the boards; the more intelligent people there have adopted COCO's character sheet (unless it came from elsewhere before coming here). I'd be interested to play in a coco campaign of course, but I cant commit to running it; after the middle of december my internet connectivity will be much lower than it is now and I will have to forgo running any fights during that time period as well.
hogarth 11-09-07, 12:27 PM	Heck, if its more RP based, I might get my wife to join. She used to be big into play by e-mail games. And is more of a RPer than a number cruncher. Always good to hear there are other play-by-email fans out that. I've been running a "Shackled City" PbEM for the past year. I'm enjoying it, but I think that some people would find the pace glacially slow. My DMing speed is just like my pitlording speed. :)
Hirumajoe 11-09-07, 12:30 PM	Always good to hear there are other play-by-email fans out that. I've been running a "Shackled City" PbEM for the past year. I'm enjoying it, but I think that some people would find the pace glacially slow. My DMing speed is just like my pitlording speed. :) Well if you need to delay penalty Valen severely in your current pitlording duties in order to get it done quickly, feel free. I'm not that concerned with whether I win or lose this one, and certainly won't be arguing any improvisation judgments (just numerical errors). Basically if Valen loses, he actually saves money, because he's only about 500 xp from leveling. :)
Taureus_Drakken 11-09-07, 12:34 PM	Oh? I was involved in an AoW play by post campaign for a bit. Unfortunately that got cancelled. I don't suppose anyone here would be interested in doing a pbp campaign that wasn't CoCo official? So we could use splat books? Or, more aptly put, I don't suppose anyone is interested in *DMing* such a campaign? :) I've got an Arcane Heirophant build that I am just ITCHING to RP out. ~McJ~ I would be interested in playing, if someone stepped up to DM. I have my hands full with an AoW PbP game I am running, otherwise I would volunteer for it. (Rewriting every NPC/monster in the campaign is a long process...Party has 7 ECL 2 members, as opposed to starting the campaign with 4 ECL 1 members) ~Taureus~
McJarvis 11-09-07, 02:17 PM	You know, I do have a WLD suppliment lying around my apartment...and a friend bought me WLC when it came out...if I could get the use of this forum to do the campaign in, I think it'd be workable. Especially with experienced players. [I've only ever tried it with people new to D&D before- needless to say, the first pair of orcs killed them...] edit- Translations are the World's Largest Dungeon and World's Largest City.
Taureus_Drakken 11-09-07, 02:25 PM	Matsuni vs Xaun is up here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14289951&postcount=1477). Chalk another one up for the gunner... If anyone sees anything 'wrong', speak up!! ;) ~Taureus~
Hirumajoe 11-09-07, 02:28 PM	You know, I do have a WLD suppliment lying around my apartment...and a friend bought me WLC when it came out...if I could get the use of this forum to do the campaign in, I think it'd be workable. Especially with experienced players. [I've only ever tried it with people new to D&D before- needless to say, the first pair of orcs killed them...] edit- Translations are the World's Largest Dungeon and World's Largest City. Is that a DMing offer I hear. :D As I said, I'd be up for such a thing. I'm sure if you posted sources allowed, starting level, and other info, you'd probably have a party together quick.
lonewolf 11-09-07, 02:29 PM	You know, I do have a WLD suppliment lying around my apartment...and a friend bought me WLC when it came out...if I could get the use of this forum to do the campaign in, I think it'd be workable. Especially with experienced players. [I've only ever tried it with people new to D&D before- needless to say, the first pair of orcs killed them...] edit- Translations are the World's Largest Dungeon and World's Largest City. Honestly, I bought WLD and used it on an evening were the regular campaign was suspended for other reasons, and the hack´n slash style of it got boring really quickly. At least in the first area where you have like 3 different types of monsters in a couple of dozend fights didnt do the trick for me. (*exaggerating a tiny bit here*)
McJarvis 11-09-07, 02:31 PM	Honestly, I bought WLD and used it on an evening were the regular campaign was suspended for other reasons, and the hack´n slash style of it got boring really quickly. At least in the first area where you have like 3 different types of monsters in a couple of dozend fights didnt do the trick for me. (*exaggerating a tiny bit here*) *ahem* - MY WLD has little hand written notes throughout it where I've added storyline ;) The most interesting part of the suppliment is the backstory, but they don't really give you adequate ways to expose it to the PC's. I think I've managed to work it out fairly OK.
whitebaron 11-09-07, 02:32 PM	yeah, we skipped about the entire first dungeon and it still was no fun. :) especially when you'd need to rest on a room-by-room basis because the wizard is out of spells and the barb out of hp.
McJarvis 11-09-07, 02:34 PM	*RE: CoCo Php game* Moved to Tavarn.
Macbrea 11-09-07, 02:41 PM	Matsuni vs Xaun is up here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14289951&postcount=1477). Chalk another one up for the gunner... If anyone sees anything 'wrong', speak up!! ;) ~Taureus~ A 5 pt vigor is +25hps not +20hps. And my starting hps are 13hps. Not 10. In which case I still have 4 hps after the last blast. I need to make a concentration check. And finish blasting him. Edit: Hmm, 19 [(6)(3.5 x 2)+ 6 con= 19; 3 HD] -> 10 [(6)(3.5x2)-3 = 10] hmmm, ok. was wrong on that... should be +25 hps though leaving me at +1 hp for the blast.
Eamane 11-09-07, 02:49 PM	A 5 pt vigor is +25hps not +20hps. And my starting hps are 13hps. Not 10. In which case I still have 4 hps after the last blast. I need to make a concentration check. And finish blasting him. Edit: Hmm, 19 [(6)(3.5 x 2)+ 6 con= 19; 3 HD] -> 10 [(6)(3.5x2)-3 = 10] hmmm, ok. was wrong on that... should be +25 hps though leaving me at +1 hp for the blast. Correct, he should have a few extra hp; However, my tactics stated that if I had not seen him manifest on R1 LOS, that I should ready to shoot him on manifesting. This means the r1 hit kills Matsuni and ends the fight in R1, I believe.
Macbrea 11-09-07, 02:51 PM	actually, it left me at 0 hps. of my 10. I manifested Vigor for +25, while disabled. Which is the reason for the -1+20 that should be -1+25. Otherwise the fight should change to you readying and me running to 5ft away from you.
Macbrea 11-09-07, 02:58 PM	As it stands now, I should have -1+1 hps and attempt to finish manifesting the surged mind thrust (Concentration DC 21). Succeed or fail Matsuni would fall unconscious at the end of the turn. Due to the fact he automaticly takes 1 damage for being at 0 hps. The odds aren't great for him as he needs to roll a 16 or higher to get the power off and therefore cannot take 15 for expending his focus. If he succeeds in getting 16 or higher then it's will save 16 or take 5d10 damage. But those rolls still need to be made.
Taureus_Drakken 11-09-07, 03:01 PM	A 5 pt vigor is +25hps not +20hps. And my starting hps are 13hps. Not 10. In which case I still have 4 hps after the last blast. I need to make a concentration check. And finish blasting him. Edit: Hmm, 19 [(6)(3.5 x 2)+ 6 con= 19; 3 HD] -> 10 [(6)(3.5x2)-3 = 10] hmmm, ok. was wrong on that... should be +25 hps though leaving me at +1 hp for the blast. Grrr... ;) -editing +5hp for matsuni, and a concentration check for now- ~Taureus~
Macbrea 11-09-07, 03:05 PM	Good match.. Matsuni - Concentration Check: DC 21 (1d20+5=18) 13/20
Taureus_Drakken 11-09-07, 03:06 PM	Ninja'd!! ;) ~Taureus~
Eamane 11-09-07, 03:06 PM	Good match.. Matsuni - Concentration Check: DC 21 (1d20+5=18) 13/20 Indeed. The chance was better than nothing and you deserved it. What are you saving up all that money for anyways? A mansion?
Macbrea 11-09-07, 03:07 PM	He had 2 wins to that point with 0 gear. I am happy to loose to someone at 3-0 record when near crippled.
Macbrea 11-09-07, 03:08 PM	Indeed. The chance was better than nothing and you deserved it. What are you saving up all that money for anyways? A mansion? I am testing how long a character can be in the arena with no gear and still hold at least a 50-50 record. Wilder seemed the most viable for it.
templer10 11-09-07, 04:07 PM	SSassetar vs platon is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14290593&postcount=1478).
MindWandererB 11-09-07, 04:43 PM	SSassetar vs platon is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14290593&postcount=1478). I think you got confused in there somewhere: Ssassetar isn't a tripper. That's Platon.
templer10 11-09-07, 05:33 PM	I think you got confused in there somewhere: Ssassetar isn't a tripper. That's Platon. ha?
McJarvis 11-09-07, 05:38 PM	ha? Round 5 ssassetar touch attacks to trip, Hit, trip made, followup miss. Platon gets up – provokes AOA – Which hits (the AOA is done when you are still on the ground so AC suffer -4), 12 damage. ssassetar Attacks with claw – Hit – Crit confirmed – 11 damage and Platon falls
whitebaron 11-09-07, 05:39 PM	ha? you actually switched the names in round 5. the ations are in the right order, correct in the roller, but you switched names.
templer10 11-09-07, 05:44 PM	you actually switched the names in round 5. the ations are in the right order, correct in the roller, but you switched names. Oh - lol - going to correct....
Rauul 11-09-07, 07:26 PM	Oh - lol - going to correct.... Quite using Telin's Dice!!! ssassetar d4: 5 rolls, 2 average d20: 8 rolls, 14 average platon d4: 1 rolls, 4 average d20: 8 rolls, 10.1 average d6: 2 rolls, 3 average
templer10 11-10-07, 09:58 AM	Gwerden vs ackbar is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14295853&postcount=1480) - Not a huge suprise there.
whitebaron 11-10-07, 11:44 AM	Gwerden vs ackbar is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14295853&postcount=1480) - Not a huge suprise there. thnx for the run, but i figure you're doing them quite quick this week - round 7: gwerdan does nothing, (at least there's no action to be seen by him) - and ackbar ends up next round with "+10" hitpoints (like a charge used from my dorje) round 8: gwerdan replenishes vigor (specified after 15 damage), but that's ok, keep it.
templer10 11-10-07, 12:07 PM	thnx for the run, but i figure you're doing them quite quick this week - round 7: gwerdan does nothing, (at least there's no action to be seen by him) - and ackbar ends up next round with "+10" hitpoints (like a charge used from my dorje) round 8: gwerdan replenishes vigor (specified after 15 damage), but that's ok, keep it. I think i accidentally moved your action to next round but it doesnt matter, And Ackbar got the 10 HP fro raging (+4 to conX5 HD=10 hp). And you said if vigor runs out replenish it - it got used so i did.
whitebaron 11-10-07, 12:28 PM	ok, thnx, missed the raging hps. about my formulation: well, should have been "if it runs out due to time" or i am below xx hp. but i understand the misunderstanding between us. (will word it differently next time) all in all, good fight for gwerdan. maybe i should have pinned, would have spared me charges. ;)
McJarvis 11-10-07, 01:57 PM	looks like my neat dimension swap tactics are going to be neigh-useless. Oh well.
whitebaron 11-10-07, 02:03 PM	totally useless. zodiac vs marius. marius hit far to good.
McJarvis 11-10-07, 02:05 PM	Wow. Goes to show you, folks- the best laid plans will often be shown to be totally inefficient when compared to luck of the dice. edit- Though, honestly, I rolled a 3 average on those d6 rolls. I think it was just the min 6 damage that dorjes does per shot. Average is about 11 damage!
Nurlithion 11-10-07, 02:31 PM	Mineau vs Gol'ie done here. I now understand why pitlords hate stealth fights. I keep getting confused about the whole distance and line of sight thingies. I think I'm gonna quit pitlording until the vacations, this is WAY too much time. Especially because there was some kind of error, the preview page didn't load, and since I had already copied something else I lost the whole chunk of text. I had to write the whole freaking thing ALL OVER AGAIN. Damn, I'm really annoyed.
McJarvis 11-10-07, 02:34 PM	Mineau vs Gol'ie done here. I now understand why pitlords hate stealth fights. I keep getting confused about the whole distance and line of sight thingies. I think I'm gonna quit pitlording until the vacations, this is WAY too much time. Especially because there was some kind of error, the preview page didn't load, and since I had already copied something else I lost the whole chunk of text. I had to write the whole freaking thing ALL OVER AGAIN. Damn, I'm really annoyed. I learned that the hard way a few times too. I generally type out the fights into a notepad file, then when I'm done click on "edit" & save it. Otherwise if you accidently click a link somewhere else it all goes away.
lonewolf 11-10-07, 02:36 PM	I learned that the hard way a few times too. I generally type out the fights into a notepad file, then when I'm done click on "edit" & save it. Otherwise if you accidently click a link somewhere else it all goes away. yeah, that happened to me too. Lost a whole fight... :embarrass
Nurlithion 11-10-07, 02:37 PM	Well, that's what I did, except I closed the notepad file when I clicked "preview post" :P
McJarvis 11-10-07, 02:41 PM	Well, that's what I did, except I closed the notepad file when I clicked "preview post" :P :(
Rauul 11-10-07, 02:55 PM	Mineau vs Gol'ie done here. I now understand why pitlords hate stealth fights. I keep getting confused about the whole distance and line of sight thingies. I think I'm gonna quit pitlording until the vacations, this is WAY too much time. Especially because there was some kind of error, the preview page didn't load, and since I had already copied something else I lost the whole chunk of text. I had to write the whole freaking thing ALL OVER AGAIN. Damn, I'm really annoyed. thanks for the run... Sorry you lost the fight like that... have had it happen to me a couple of times.. I suspect he hit me in Rd 12 cause Gol'ie was Flat footed?? Since an 18 won't hit Gol'ie's touch ac..
Nurlithion 11-10-07, 03:07 PM	You were flat-footed AND it would hit your touch AC anyway: the Githzerai's Inertial Armor ability gives you an Armor bonus to AC, which doesn't apply to touch attacks.
whitebaron 11-10-07, 03:52 PM	well, actually i find it easier to do the whole thing in an editor alltogether. i don't need the preview, as bbcodes are like second nature - and browsers really don't keep your editing as simple. besides - keeping fights on hard-disk for a while isn't that bad - it makes for easier editing.
Taureus_Drakken 11-10-07, 04:08 PM	Gwerden vs ackbar is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14295853&postcount=1480) - Not a huge suprise there. Thanks for the run. Note to self, sunder wands/dorjes in the future... ~Taureus~
Vathelokai 11-10-07, 05:01 PM	totally useless. zodiac vs marius. marius hit far to good. Ouch. Oh well.
Turanson 11-10-07, 05:31 PM	thanks for the run Nurlit. and thanks for the heads up on Rowier. to bad you lost the fight like that. My first Win :D
McJarvis 11-10-07, 07:22 PM	thanks for the run Nurlit. and thanks for the heads up on Rowier. to bad you lost the fight like that. My first Win :D Congrats :)
Turanson 11-11-07, 04:57 AM	Congrats :) Thank you :)
templer10 11-11-07, 05:03 AM	besides - keeping fights on hard-disk for a while isn't that bad - it makes for easier editing. Ill second that - but then iam wierd - i keep all 110+ fights on my HD... i also keep a defult battle sheet ready for 2, 3 or 4 chars just to save me time.
whitebaron 11-11-07, 03:01 PM	the needle vs grumsh is up. another quick one this week. this time, in the other direction.
whitebaron 11-11-07, 05:39 PM	the battle of apostrophes (Felice tu`Ria vs Inzin Dar'ath) is up. please note that it might not be over yet as there are two questions that i have to be ask in the courtroom.
Salrantol 11-11-07, 06:00 PM	the battle of apostrophes (Felice tu`Ria vs Inzin Dar'ath) is up. please note that it might not be over yet as there are two questions that i have to be ask in the courtroom.If it does come down to a bleeding battle, note that you forgot to add the +2 damage from Power Specialization to the Energy Retorts. Which brings up an interesting question--since it's based on being good at hitting effectively with the attacks, does the adder come before or after the halving from a successful save?
whitebaron 11-11-07, 06:03 PM	If it does come down to a bleeding battle, note that you forgot to add the +2 damage from Power Specialization to the Energy Retorts. Which brings up an interesting question--since it's based on being good at hitting effectively with the attacks, does the adder come before or after the halving from a successful save? it's always before the save, since it increases the total damage, which is objected to the save. its not "you gain an extra damage effect", however that may be worded.
Salrantol 11-11-07, 06:44 PM	it's always before the save, since it increases the total damage, which is objected to the save. its not "you gain an extra damage effect", however that may be worded.you deal an extra 2 points of damage.It doesn't say the power deals extra damage, it says I deal extra damage, which would imply at least the possibility of it being post-save.
Eluria 11-11-07, 06:45 PM	the needle vs grumsh is up. another quick one this week. this time, in the other direction. I certainly won't complain; as I said in the PMs to both you and Luni, I thought you were both really kind and everything was handled beautifully. I'm glad this fight was less painful than the last one of mine you pitlorded :).
whitebaron 11-11-07, 06:57 PM	With rays and ranged touch attack powers that deal damage, you deal an extra 2 points of damage. with rays and powers you deal extra damage. so, it says the power does more damage. @e: don't worry. won't happen again like last time...
Salrantol 11-11-07, 10:19 PM	If it wanted to say the power dealt more damage, it could say, "Your ray and ranged touch attack powers that deal damage deal an extra 2 points of damage." But it says, "With rays and ranged touch attack powers that deal damage, you deal an extra 2 points of damage." I don't think they were considering Energy Retort when they phrased it, because I'm pretty sure that's the only ray or ranged touch attack power that deals damage and has a save for half damage, which is the only situation in which the phrasing matters. But as phrased, it at least seems to indicate that it's not so much an effect on the power as on the damage directly, a la sneak attack. You certainly wouldn't claim that a blinking rogue/psion with Energy Retort active would halve their sneak attack damage on an Energy Retort ectoburst attack, would you? With regards to my quote editing, I cut the descriptive clause out because it just says when you deal extra damage. I certainly wasn't trying to claim that the extra damage dealt applied to non-ray, non-touch-attack, non-damage-dealing powers, which would be the only time when that edit would affect an argument.
Hirumajoe 11-11-07, 11:24 PM	. But as phrased, it at least seems to indicate that it's not so much an effect on the power as on the damage directly, a la sneak attack. You certainly wouldn't claim that a blinking rogue/psion with Energy Retort active would halve their sneak attack damage on an Energy Retort ectoburst attack, would you? Actually, I'm pretty sure thats the way it does work. At least it did in 3.0. The sneak attack damage would get added, then you roll the saving throw, and then you halve all the damage (including the sneak attack damage). So I believe the +2 bonus damage should get halved. I'll see if I can't find a quote in one of the faqs. Although not really sure what would happen with a disintegrate spell (also a ray with a fort save - but not for half damage, flat 5d6...). Edit: When you sneak attack with one of the orb or lesser orb spells from Tome and Blood, do you get sneak attack damage from every orb in the volley? Also, what effect, if any, does the Fortitude half saving throw have on the sneak attack damage? The sneak attack damage applies only to the first orb in the volley, just as it does when you throw multiple shuriken as part of a single attack action. If the first orb hits, add the sneak attack damage to the orb damage, then roll the save, and halve the result if the save succeeds.
whitebaron 11-12-07, 06:11 AM	well, with disintegrate you're out of luck, as your sneak attack is wasted if he makes his save. i'll roll the bleedout this evening or maybe tomorrow, depending on the answers in the courtroom either felice or inzin will have a slight headstart.
Salrantol 11-12-07, 08:41 AM	In an unrelated remark related to the same fight, I direct you to...Resist Dying: You can attempt to subconsciously prevent yourself from dying. If you have negative hit points and are losing hit points (at 1 per round, 1 per hour), you can substitute a DC 20 Autohypnosis check for your d% roll to see if you become stable. If the check is successful, you stop losing hit points (you do not gain any hit points, however, as a result of the check). You can substitute this check for the d% roll in later rounds if you are initially unsuccessful.
McJarvis 11-12-07, 08:46 AM	Does this mean that prescience, offensive adds a flat 2 damage to effects that save for half, instead of being halved itself?
whitebaron 11-12-07, 10:16 AM	offensive prescience is affected by the save, as it adds to the roll. You gain a +2 insight bonus on your damage rolls @salrantol: good for you if felice has autohypnosis.
Hirumajoe 11-12-07, 11:46 AM	@Telin: I've put your monster up, its equipment and basic tactics. I expect to run it tonight. Should go quick I think. You may want to double check the equipment before I run it though. I think everything is legal, but not positive.
TelinArtho 11-12-07, 11:51 AM	Looks fine to me... Fast Healing 20... well - I only need 2 hits per round in order to stay ahead of that...
Hirumajoe 11-12-07, 11:59 AM	Looks fine to me... Fast Healing 20... well - I only need 2 hits per round in order to stay ahead of that... Statistically you rate to deal 31.35 damage per round once you're full attacking. So about 10 rounds to kill it. On the other hand, it rates to deal about 31.25 per round to you in a full attack. (16-20 on a d20, 12.5 damage average per hit, 10 attempts per round). Doesn't look good for the home team.
TelinArtho 11-12-07, 12:12 PM	Bah - leave your statistics at home and start rolling! :P I really should just eat the money loss and push his AC into the high 30s (or even 40s...). I definitely should have included to use combat expertise though... making it need a 20 would have been much better (well - I guess it would only be 19-20, but still...)
Hirumajoe 11-12-07, 01:24 PM	@Telin: The dice have been rolled, if you want to peek in the dice roller...
Taureus_Drakken 11-12-07, 02:07 PM	Flutterthought vs Darian is up here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14313248&postcount=1487). Tough break for the pixie...Using a power that has no save, and no SR check -> Just mean!! ;) Anything to edit? ~Taureus~
lonewolf 11-12-07, 02:16 PM	yay! only one thing that isnt really important if MWB doesnt have any complaints: In round 7 Darian could walk further towards flutterthought and use the swarm in that round, because as long as he is invisible he doesnt provoke AoO from the lion.
whitebaron 11-12-07, 02:20 PM	battle of the apostrophes - result changed. felice wins the bleeding battle because of autohypnosis.
McJarvis 11-12-07, 02:25 PM	battle of the apostrophes - result changed. felice wins the bleeding battle because of autohypnosis. Wow- an upset already in the month? Congrats to felice :)
TelinArtho 11-12-07, 03:02 PM	@Telin: The dice have been rolled, if you want to peek in the dice roller... Yeah - I saw... No biggie - it does help cement (to me at least) that Aquin still has some gaping holes to shore up.
templer10 11-12-07, 03:29 PM	kai vs verger vs Tzimosica is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14313892&postcount=1488) - the lesson of the day - Dont underestimate the importence of being lucky...
hogarth 11-12-07, 03:51 PM	Elrick vs Valen, part I of ??? is up here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14314129&postcount=1489 If anyone can make any suggestions as to how to speed this up, I'd be delighted to hear them! :embarrass
templer10 11-12-07, 04:02 PM	Elrick vs Valen, part I of ??? is up here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14314129&postcount=1489 If anyone can make any suggestions as to how to speed this up, I'd be delighted to hear them! :embarrass beats me- But if it takes him 17 rounds to do 2 hits.... I dont see him running through my HP twice before his buffs end. p.s - the SNA is 22 rounds long not 11. And dont forget healing when it's time.
MindWandererB 11-12-07, 04:40 PM	Flutterthought vs Darian is up here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14313248&postcount=1487). Tough break for the pixie...Using a power that has no save, and no SR check -> Just mean!! ;) Anything to edit? ~Taureus~ That's more or less what I expected. I did see the possibility of Darian doing almost exactly what he did, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out a way to avoid it. There are disadvantages to having only one caster level at ECL 5.
Hirumajoe 11-12-07, 04:48 PM	Elrick vs Valen, part I of ??? is up here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14314129&postcount=1489 If anyone can make any suggestions as to how to speed this up, I'd be delighted to hear them! :embarrass Option 1) Valen surrenders. I didn't want to turn this into a pitlord endurance match. Option 2) You improvise Elrick smartly, and put in a position where he cannot be sniped from 150', forcing Valen to melee. Should speed things up. (I.e. when you have Valen sitting there with Elrick down below would have been a perfectly reasonable time to force him to switch.) Option 3) You make speed rolls with your best guess of sniping rounds to moving rounds ratio (looks like once every 3 or 4 rounds). Forget exact movement. Simply roll out an addition (73-17 = 56/3 = 18 or 56/4 = 14) more sniping shots. Given the restriction of 150-200' range, even with a double move they're not going to pinpoint the sound. Activate Elrick's healing contingency if and when the hp are hit, then continue with speed rolls. When Metamorphosis drops, switch to that contingency (i.e. Full attacks /w haste from a reasonable spot). Option 4) Hit Valen with a delay penalty, removing Chameleon allowing Elrick to cast dispel magic and continue from there. I won't object to any of the above. I'd prefer not option 1, but I'll leave that to your discretion Hogarth.
lonewolf 11-12-07, 04:56 PM	That's more or less what I expected. I did see the possibility of Darian doing almost exactly what he did, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out a way to avoid it. There are disadvantages to having only one caster level at ECL 5. If you had used the stone of Vigor you would have probably won. You would have survived the first attack and then probably dispelled the touchsight and flew into safety. Darian wouldnt have enough pp to refresh touchsight and the animals would have killed him.
templer10 11-12-07, 05:05 PM	Option 1) Valen surrenders. I didn't want to turn this into a pitlord endurance match. Option 2) You improvise Elrick smartly, and put in a position where he cannot be sniped from 150', forcing Valen to melee. Should speed things up. (I.e. when you have Valen sitting there with Elrick down below would have been a perfectly reasonable time to force him to switch.) Option 3) You make speed rolls with your best guess of sniping rounds to moving rounds ratio (looks like once every 3 or 4 rounds). Forget exact movement. Simply roll out an addition (73-17 = 56/3 = 18 or 56/4 = 14) more sniping shots. Given the restriction of 150-200' range, even with a double move they're not going to pinpoint the sound. Activate Elrick's healing contingency if and when the hp are hit, then continue with speed rolls. When Metamorphosis drops, switch to that contingency (i.e. Full attacks /w haste from a reasonable spot). Option 4) Hit Valen with a delay penalty, removing Chameleon allowing Elrick to cast dispel magic and continue from there. I won't object to any of the above. I'd prefer not option 1, but I'll leave that to your discretion Hogarth. i can live with any of the options.
hogarth 11-12-07, 05:33 PM	i can live with any of the options. Let me see what I can come up with, then. EDIT: I'll go with the speed rolling. That seems to be most in line with the tactics posted.
Macbrea 11-12-07, 06:20 PM	Note to self.. Baelin vs Kracknol these fights go fast!
SauroGrenom 11-12-07, 08:54 PM	Note to self.. Baelin vs Kracknol these fights go fast! Fast fights are always good for Kracknol. BTW Kracknol gets multiclass penalties.
MindWandererB 11-12-07, 09:07 PM	BTW Kracknol gets multiclass penalties. You should probably note that in a big, prominent place on the sheet--everyone misses it.
Hirumajoe 11-12-07, 09:57 PM	kai vs verger vs Tzimosica is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14313892&postcount=1488) - the lesson of the day - Dont underestimate the importence of being lucky... Hmm... Seemed to miss this post. First, thanks for the run. Second, Xanosect is listed as being in (11,30). Kai is listed as being in (14,31). In that case, its a 10' move to reach Kai. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Name,M,10,29;b= Name,L,14,31,27,47;c=Name,M,11,30 Not sure how you want to handle that information, since it puts the CDG off a round, but probably in the grand scheme of things won't change anything. Thirdly, why does everyone think Kai is the most dangerous in this fight?! :D I mean come on, he's as close to being a failure as you can without actually getting the tag. (Ok, so gets it this week...)
McJarvis 11-12-07, 10:15 PM	Thirdly, why does everyone think Kai is the most dangerous in this fight?! :D I mean come on, he's as close to being a failure as you can without actually getting the tag. (Ok, so gets it this week...) Fear the arcane gish not for what he has done: but for his potential doings.
McJarvis 11-12-07, 11:41 PM	Reggy vs Wraiths (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14275106&postcount=1476) is up. I hate running fights where tactics get hijacked.
Hirumajoe 11-13-07, 01:11 AM	I should probably point out Aquin vs the Hydra is now up.
Vathelokai 11-13-07, 01:46 AM	The first part of Lord Lorian vs the Lich-Priest of Nerull is up. Ugly fight here. Having trouble finding time to get things done this week, but I should finish it tonight.
whitebaron 11-13-07, 03:44 AM	b) is there any way to submit what you are crafting after the deadline? i'm not sure we get everything set by then. thnx to mwb for editing it in after the deadline.
templer10 11-13-07, 04:01 AM	Hmm... Seemed to miss this post. First, thanks for the run. Second, Xanosect is listed as being in (11,30). Kai is listed as being in (14,31). In that case, its a 10' move to reach Kai. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Name,M,10,29;b= Name,L,14,31,27,47;c=Name,M,11,30 Not sure how you want to handle that information, since it puts the CDG off a round, but probably in the grand scheme of things won't change anything. Thirdly, why does everyone think Kai is the most dangerous in this fight?! :D I mean come on, he's as close to being a failure as you can without actually getting the tag. (Ok, so gets it this week...) Actually it doesnt matter since kai is large but even if it did- doesnt change anything.
hogarth 11-13-07, 05:49 AM	Reggy vs Wraiths (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14275106&postcount=1476) is up. I hate running fights where tactics get hijacked. Note that Myoxus is disguised as Reginald; there should be some spot checks to tell which is which at least for wraith C (who didn't see any spellcasting or manifesting). I have no idea what "you can't hide who you truely (sic) are" means. Also, don't forget riding for cover (unlikely to work, but you never know). Most importantly, you forgot Reginald's Share Pain with his psicrystal. Frankly I think it's extremely idiotic that you didn't have Reginald et al move away from the wraiths (considering that they have no way to detect invisible characters), but that's your prerogative. Monster fights are complete arbitrary bull*** anyway, so I'm not going to argue this one too much.
McJarvis 11-13-07, 08:25 AM	Note that Myoxus is disguised as Reginald; there should be some spot checks to tell which is which at least for wraith C (who didn't see any spellcasting or manifesting). I have no idea what "you can't hide who you truely (sic) are" means. Also, don't forget riding for cover (unlikely to work, but you never know). Most importantly, you forgot Reginald's Share Pain with his psicrystal. I'll go back and look at that. All I meant by the "you can't hide" deal was that if you have a manifester & a spellcaster- it isn't too hard to figure out which one is which in the heat of battle. Note that wraith 3 never saw either of you- so he couldn't have been fooled by the disguise. I asked an elder(rith) on the mechanics of attacking a square with a mount, rider, and four passengers while invisible- and that elder said he didn't see any reason _in the rules_ why there'd be a chance to hit someone else. I think it's weird that you can hit the right person just by knowing your *intended* target- but the rules don't account for this to my knowledge. [if you can find something, though....] Frankly I think it's extremely idiotic that you didn't have Reginald et al move away from the wraiths (considering that they have no way to detect invisible characters), but that's your prerogative. I would have- but your tactics specifically said to go on with the buff sequence if you were interrupted- counting on invisibility to protect you. Monster fights are complete arbitrary bull*** anyway, so I'm not going to argue this one too much. I think I was pretty fair here- you just got some lousy luck on the wraiths finding you during your buff sequence. There was nothing any more arbitrary here than in a regular fight. (other than that vampires/wraiths/ghosts/etc are incredibly difficult monster fights)
hogarth 11-13-07, 08:46 AM	I would have- but your tactics specifically said to go on with the buff sequence if you were interrupted- counting on invisibility to protect you. Well, you can easily move and buff at the same time (even a 5' step would have confused them a bit), but whatever. I think I was pretty fair here- you just got some lousy luck on the wraiths finding you during your buff sequence. There was nothing any more arbitrary here than in a regular fight. (other than that vampires/wraiths/ghosts/etc are incredibly difficult monster fights) You arbitrarily decided that an ettin was an auto-win; I don't think that was particularly fair. But even so, I think monster fights are B.S. to begin with (for a myriad of reasons that don't need to be rehashed again); that part has nothing to do with you.
McJarvis 11-13-07, 09:13 AM	Well, you can easily move and buff at the same time (even a 5' step would have confused them a bit), but whatever. If half of a monster-team can be completely avoided, then I consider that an "auto-win". I'd blame whoever put that on the list: creatures without equipment that have no way of flying don't belong in the CoCo arena after level 6 or so.
hogarth 11-13-07, 09:15 AM	If half of a monster-team can be completely avoided, then I consider that an "auto-win". Good for you.
Macbrea 11-13-07, 09:49 AM	My problem with removing pitlord determined auto-win monsters from the roll is that 1) we don't remove auto-loose monsters and 2) we don't remove from the list monsters that have been determined an auto-win three times. If we allow creatures to auto-win but not characters then we are cheating the characters. If we don't remove the creatures that are auto-wins for the all characters in the league then we are just wasting a slot.
McJarvis 11-13-07, 10:36 AM	Good for you. Whatever man- don't lash out at me just 'cause you don't like monster fights. The rerun is done. It came out much closer this time- but the wraith's combat reflexes seem to have saved the day for it. I find it ironic that I almost subbed out blindfight & combat reflexes for being "too weak" for other feats, then decided to leave them in since it was more in the spirit of monster fights. (and they ended up being major factors in the battle)
hogarth 11-13-07, 11:05 AM	Whatever man- don't lash out at me just 'cause you don't like monster fights. I seem to remember you pouting and sulking after having Macbrea as a pitlord once. I reserve the right to pout and sulk based on the pitlords as well. :D
whitebaron 11-13-07, 11:12 AM	monster fights are just plain unfair. i'd propose a list of 5 "Mercenaries" to be used in every fight. Plain Caster, Plain Fighter, Some Mixtures. each with normal Expendables and stuff available as per the treasure rules we currently use. not subjected to 3FC, but with 25pt buy. that way, it would be much fairer than it is now. actually, gwerdan fought last week against a hydra, which was pretty much autowin for it - and this was on the third reroll because he'd lost all other fights as well. his other stats are 7-2 - so not too bad.
hogarth 11-13-07, 11:15 AM	@McJarvis -- could you please add in the riding for cover rolls? It might avoid one or two hits. On the other hand, you need to roll the 50% chance that the energy walls do no damage as well.
McJarvis 11-13-07, 11:15 AM	I seem to remember you pouting and sulking after having Macbrea as a pitlord once. I reserve the right to pout and sulk based on the pitlords as well. :D Actually, that was Mitza- and technically I'm still sulking about that whole thing, it just isn't pronounced since she is afCoCo. Though, in retrospect, I guess I *was* the pitlord for Reggy's last loss. [Man- that quite some fight. You just don't pitlord for THAT many donkeys and forget about it]
McJarvis 11-13-07, 11:16 AM	monster fights are just plain unfair. i'd propose a list of 5 "Mercenaries" to be used in every fight. Plain Caster, Plain Fighter, Some Mixtures. each with normal Expendables and stuff available as per the treasure rules we currently use. not subjected to 3FC, but with 25pt buy. that way, it would be much fairer than it is now. actually, gwerdan fought last week against a hydra, which was pretty much autowin for it - and this was on the third reroll because he'd lost all other fights as well. his other stats are 7-2 - so not too bad. Don't get me wrong- I agree. I'm looking over tactics for this Manticore vs Team fight and I can't believe the Manticore's CR. His volley attack gives him 6 attacks per round against a single target if he wants[there's no mention that they must be against different targets!]
McJarvis 11-13-07, 11:18 AM	@McJarvis -- could you please add in the riding for cover rolls? It might avoid one or two hits. On the other hand, you need to roll the 50% chance that the energy walls do no damage as well. I'll get to this after I'm done with the Manticore fight.
hogarth 11-13-07, 11:18 AM	McJarvis -- also add in the Sonic Orbs and Matter Agitation from the two psicrystals.
Rauul 11-13-07, 11:24 AM	Quavein Siannodel vs. Vaernya Thiri'vir is done and here... (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14312600&postcount=1485) What can i say... i hate elfs and MwB gives me an Elf battle... BAD MwB BAD!
templer10 11-13-07, 11:42 AM	Actually, that was Mitza- and technically I'm still sulking about that whole thing, it just isn't pronounced since she is afCoCo. Though, in retrospect, I guess I *was* the pitlord for Reggy's last loss. [Man- that quite some fight. You just don't pitlord for THAT many donkeys and forget about it] Hmm - i sulk a lot more when i lose if i consider it unfair. on the other hand now we have a monster fight vs Mien and hogarth's team... Althrough that fight would take a bloody miracle on the dice to win (for us), althrough i think we werote as good a tactics as possible under the circumstences (bloody manticore and undervaluted CR mutter mutter).
McJarvis 11-13-07, 11:44 AM	Hmm - i sulk a lot more when i lose if i consider it unfair. on the other hand now we have a monster fight vs Mien and hogarth's team... Althrough that fight would take a bloody miracle on the dice to win (for us), althrough i think we werote as good a tactics as possible under the circumstences (bloody manticore and undervaluted CR mutter mutter). Once I saw how good the manticore was, I admittedly didn't put as much thought into tactics[I pretty much used the manticore's standard ones]. Maybe that'll help you out.
Luni 11-13-07, 01:41 PM	I'm sorry Malither and TelinArtho. I simply don't have the time to run your fight. http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14322220&postcount=1491 The setup is there if someone else wants to run it. I'm going to go ask Pitlords to be removed from pitlording becasue I simply do not have the time necessary between work and renovating my place.
McJarvis 11-13-07, 01:59 PM	first part of team Eternal Sleep vs the Howler and Artillery Support. I'm really surprised at how good combat reflexes has been working for monsters this week.
hogarth 11-13-07, 02:05 PM	first part of team Eternal Sleep vs the Howler and Artillery Support. I'm really surprised at how good combat reflexes has been working for monsters this week. If a horse is doing nothing but moving in a given round, why does it attract attacks of opportunity? :confused:
McJarvis 11-13-07, 02:09 PM	If a horse is doing nothing but moving in a given round, why does it attract attacks of opportunity? :confused: because moving out of a square provokes an attack of opportunity? It's not like when you double move on horseback you're *always* using the retreat action....?
hogarth 11-13-07, 02:13 PM	because moving out of a square provokes an attack of opportunity? It's not like when you double move on horseback you're *always* using the retreat action....? I still don't get it. Why can't the horse withdraw while the rider does something else? This has been done in lots of fights in the past.
McJarvis 11-13-07, 02:18 PM	I still don't get it. Why can't the horse withdraw while the rider does something else? This has been done in lots of fights in the past. Because there is no "You can shoot ranged weapons while your mount is retreating" clause? You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move ?? I've never heard of making full-round ranged attacks on a retreating mount. Is that in a RotG somewhere?
hogarth 11-13-07, 02:22 PM	?? I've never heard of making full-round ranged attacks on a retreating mount. Is that in a RotG somewhere? I've never heard of it being forbidden. Is that in a RotG somewhere?
McJarvis 11-13-07, 02:26 PM	I've never heard of it being forbidden. Is that in a RotG somewhere? Well, I generally read the rules for what you *can* do. Like it explicitly says you can take a double move[or run] while full-attacking with ranged attacks. Or it explicitly says you can cast spells while taking a double move[or while running]. At least that's how I learned to read it a while ago when talking to Sauro via PM. [IIRC] Have we really never had a ruling on this?
Macbrea 11-13-07, 02:31 PM	Moving more then 5ft causes an AoO for doing any action other then a withdraw action. The horse wouldn't provoke the AoO for withdrawing but the rider would. And that AoO would be made back at the point that the person started. This is exactly the same as moving 30ft away from melee and shooting a bow. It provokes an AoO.
Macbrea 11-13-07, 02:32 PM	You should be able to fire while your horse withdraws. But it isn't going to prevent provoking AoOs. You don't become immune to them because your riding a horse.
lonewolf 11-13-07, 02:33 PM	The horse retreats and the rider is provoking an AoO. I dont see the problem...
McJarvis 11-13-07, 02:36 PM	Moving more then 5ft causes an AoO for doing any action other then a withdraw action. The horse wouldn't provoke the AoO for withdrawing but the rider would. And that AoO would be made back at the point that the person started. This is exactly the same as moving 30ft away from melee and shooting a bow. It provokes an AoO. Right- that isn't what we're discussing. He used the "double-move/rapid shot" ability out of the combat section & it provoked an AoO for the horse and himself. Hogarth is saying he wanted the horse to use a withdraw action- but I don't think it works like that. There's a long list of stuff you're allowed to do with mounted combat- having your mount use a withdraw action while you do something differently isn't on that list. [to my knowledge?]
templer10 11-13-07, 02:40 PM	Mcjarvis - i think you confused MK and SE AC at rounds 9 and 10, the manticore shot at MK at both rounds and you mentioned 1 hit at round 9 and 2 at round 10, none of those Hit since MK has AC of 24 and higest roll in both rounds was 23.
McJarvis 11-13-07, 02:42 PM	Mcjarvis - i think you confused MK and SE AC at rounds 9 and 10, the manticore shot at MK at both rounds and you mentioned 1 hit at round 9 and 2 at round 10, none of those Hit since MK has AC of 24 and higest roll in both rounds was 23. Are the AC's mixed up? My notes say that MK's AC is 20 and SE's is 24 edit- yeah, you're right. I'll see about fixing that...
TelinArtho 11-13-07, 02:43 PM	@McJ - I don't think it has really come up for discussion before, but I can tell you that it has been run with the horse taking a withdraw action while the rider does otherwise. I have asked for this in tactics before (and been granted it) and I have run it this way in fights as well.
Macbrea 11-13-07, 02:43 PM	Hmm, Rules of the game reads: Withdraw: You can withdraw while mounted. Use your mount's speed rating. The first square you and your mount leave is not considered threatened and neither you nor your mount provoke attacks of opportunity when you leave that square. Which seems to indicate that they feel you should be also withdrawing if your mount is. Which is a reasonable DM ruling to say a horse is to dumb to understand withdraw vs run away and that the rider must control it to move away without giving a free shot. And strictly reading the rules you may only make a ranged attack while your mount is 1) standing still, 2) walking, 3) double moving (-4) and 4) Running (-8). All of which are actions within the game system.
McJarvis 11-13-07, 02:46 PM	To put some perspective here- I understand where the other three or four of you are coming from. Most players think of mounted combat as the mount having it's actions and the rider having his actions- with some penalties associated with basic types of movement. Ie- taking a full-round "movement oriented" action gives an archer a -4 to all attacks. If that were true, though, then it'd be possible for a mount to charge while it's rider pummels with ranged attacks on the way in. [Which, IMO, sounds even more ridiculous than a mount retreating while it's rider attacks- even if it IS the coolest thing I've imagined all morning]. Unless there is a RotG or FAQ that handles this- the only actions available from the Mounted Combat section are double-moves while doing various activities. And, of course, single moves(which count as the rider's move action)
Erithmu 11-13-07, 02:52 PM	I'm sorry Malither and TelinArtho. I simply don't have the time to run your fight. http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14322220&postcount=1491 The setup is there if someone else wants to run it. I'm going to go ask Pitlords to be removed from pitlording becasue I simply do not have the time necessary between work and renovating my place.For whoever runs this fight ... Kraegin can't extend spell resistance w/ his rod ... only works on lvl 1-3 spells.
lonewolf 11-13-07, 02:52 PM	@McJarvis: actually, I think that your example of "charging + Full ranged attack" should be possible. But maybe thats just me.
TelinArtho 11-13-07, 02:58 PM	For whoever runs this fight ... Kraegin can't extend spell resistance w/ his rod ... only works on lvl 1-3 spells. Heh - yeah I've tried that one too many times methinks... I really should get him a higher level rod so I don't forget again. Anyway - I don't think it really matters anyway - I was just banking on a possibility of having SR for the third fight. Oh well.
Taureus_Drakken 11-13-07, 03:41 PM	I'm sorry Malither and TelinArtho. I simply don't have the time to run your fight. http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14322220&postcount=1491 The setup is there if someone else wants to run it. I'm going to go ask Pitlords to be removed from pitlording becasue I simply do not have the time necessary between work and renovating my place. If no one is going to step up for this fight, consider it taken. :D I will get working on things ASAP. ~Taureus~
TelinArtho 11-13-07, 03:51 PM	Thanks man - I appreciate it.
McJarvis 11-13-07, 03:53 PM	Taureus appears to always be the hero of the day :)
TelinArtho 11-13-07, 04:01 PM	There was a time when I picked up 2-3 late fights per week. I miss being that reliable - but I'm glad there are others who still do it on occasion.
Taureus_Drakken 11-13-07, 04:05 PM	Taureus appears to always be the hero of the day :) I do what I can. Working the early shift (5am-2pm) opens up afternoons no matter who you are. ;) ~Taureus~
whitebaron 11-13-07, 04:06 PM	well, my main problem with picking up fights is that most of them get posted a few hours before i go to sleep & i'm not at home on tuesdays anyway. @telin: i can understand that. being timely & reliable is worth much to one's self-esteem.
templer10 11-13-07, 04:27 PM	Mcjarvis - just 1 thing - in round 5 MK casts the shocking grasp and lets his familiar deliver it, Since MK/familiar is basing the howler at the time why didnt the familiar get His bonus for being invisible - it is a shared spell after all and there is absolutly no reason for MK to go away losing that invisbility and THEN for the familiar to attack.
McJarvis 11-13-07, 04:32 PM	Mcjarvis - just 1 thing - in round 5 MK casts the shocking grasp and lets his familiar deliver it, Since MK/familiar is basing the howler at the time why didnt the familiar get His bonus for being invisible - it is a shared spell after all and there is absolutly no reason for MK to go away losing that invisbility and THEN for the familiar to attack. Hmm. It didn't occur to me- probably because your tactics didn't mention it at all. I'll think about whether this is "fair use" of hindsight- the edit will come when I get home if it comes at all.
MindWandererB 11-13-07, 05:03 PM	Hmm, Rules of the game reads: Withdraw: You can withdraw while mounted. Use your mount's speed rating. The first square you and your mount leave is not considered threatened and neither you nor your mount provoke attacks of opportunity when you leave that square. Which seems to indicate that they feel you should be also withdrawing if your mount is. Which is a reasonable DM ruling to say a horse is to dumb to understand withdraw vs run away and that the rider must control it to move away without giving a free shot. And strictly reading the rules you may only make a ranged attack while your mount is 1) standing still, 2) walking, 3) double moving (-4) and 4) Running (-8). All of which are actions within the game system. I don't have time to look for the quote right now, but one of the later RotG articles in that series says that if your mount withdraws and you don't, you still provoke; similarly, the rider could withdraw and the mount not, and the mount would provoke. The quote you give here is if both mount and rider use the withdraw action.
templer10 11-13-07, 05:42 PM	Hmm. It didn't occur to me- probably because your tactics didn't mention it at all. I'll think about whether this is "fair use" of hindsight- the edit will come when I get home if it comes at all. If you do edit note there is some missing dmg rolled in the roller but that wasnt mentioned in the Manticore's HP going down, you also didnt give Attack/dmg bonuses for SE PBS feat. if the familiar was attacking while invisible he hit on the attack and with any luck did enough dmg so that the scorching ray later was done on the manticore - might change some stuff around.
McJarvis 11-13-07, 05:47 PM	If you do edit note there is some missing dmg rolled in the roller but that wasnt mentioned in the Manticore's HP going down, you also didnt give Attack/dmg bonuses for SE PBS feat. if the familiar was attacking while invisible he hit on the attack and with any luck did enough dmg so that the scorching ray later was done on the manticore - might change some stuff around. That wouldn't change. The Manticore was at a height of 50 ft until after the mage died- which means the scorching ray wouldn't have been transferred. (a round after the mage died he was forced to land due to maneuverability and the center obstacle) Do you still want me to look into the PBS stuff?
TelinArtho 11-13-07, 05:52 PM	Man... good luck to Malither - I got no love on the saving throws vs Sanctuary - but at least his dispel didn't do much...
Taureus_Drakken 11-13-07, 07:43 PM	Is rolling a 1 on a caster level check against SR an auto-fail? The SRD does say SR is like an AC against magical attacks, but then again, it's a 'check' not an attack or save roll. ~Taureus~
Vathelokai 11-13-07, 08:09 PM	Is rolling a 1 on a caster level check against SR an auto-fail? The SRD does say SR is like an AC against magical attacks, but then again, it's a 'check' not an attack or save roll. ~Taureus~ No, caster level checks work like skill checks; no auto-win/loss. Basicly, if the srd doens't have a section on auto success/fail (saves and attacks are the only ones I can think of), then there isn't.
Taureus_Drakken 11-13-07, 08:37 PM	No, caster level checks work like skill checks; no auto-win/loss. Basicly, if the srd doens't have a section on auto success/fail (saves and attacks are the only ones I can think of), then there isn't. Gotcha, and then when I had figured that out, I realized I had forgotten to roll something else that would have prompted the need for a caster check, and then the caster check ended up not being needed...*sighs heavily* This fight is tough! ~Taureus~
hogarth 11-13-07, 11:09 PM	http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14314129&postcount=1489 Elrick vs. Valen Sky fight is finished. Sorry for the rather poor job; if either of you want it held over, let me know.
Hirumajoe 11-13-07, 11:42 PM	http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14314129&postcount=1489 Elrick vs. Valen Sky fight is finished. Sorry for the rather poor job; if either of you want it held over, let me know. First, thanks for the run. Don't worry about it. I have no issue with it, given my tactics were the ones that made it difficult. :)
Vathelokai 11-14-07, 12:34 AM	Lorian vs Lich-priest is up. Kind of makes me want to make one as a character...
Taureus_Drakken 11-14-07, 12:35 AM	Malik vs Kraegin is up here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14328054&postcount=1492). I hope I didn't make any mistakes... ~Taureus~
templer10 11-14-07, 01:54 AM	That wouldn't change. The Manticore was at a height of 50 ft until after the mage died- which means the scorching ray wouldn't have been transferred. (a round after the mage died he was forced to land due to maneuverability and the center obstacle) Do you still want me to look into the PBS stuff? i want you to look into the invisbility thing (and the pbs) since if i counted the dmg right even an additional magic missile can potentially kill that manticore (you were off on the dmg count - i think it was below 10 HP when SE died)
McJarvis 11-14-07, 10:47 AM	i want you to look into the invisbility thing (and the pbs) since if i counted the dmg right even an additional magic missile can potentially kill that manticore (you were off on the dmg count - i think it was below 10 HP when SE died) Yeah- it was at 9 hp. The way everything went down, though, the shocking grasp had to deal 19 or more damage to save your action- in practice it only dealt 9. I revised the hp totals, though- and accounted for PBS.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 10:50 AM	Malik vs Kraegin is up here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14328054&postcount=1492). I hope I didn't make any mistakes... ~Taureus~ While I'm a little disappointed that Kraegin spent the entire fight just moving around, there's not much to do about it because I didn't use better tactics. 1. The achaierai has 3 uses of the black cloud - you only used one of them. 2. Malik has to be within range of IP when he casts any of the Hideous Laughters and Scorching Ray (CL10 - 25ft +5ft/2 levels = 50ft; IP has a radius of 5ft per level = 50ft). This means that my summons should be pushed up a lot earlier. 3. Also - in round 12, the greater invisibility should have ended before Malik's action - so from that point on - Kraegin has no problem seeing Malik.
McJarvis 11-14-07, 10:53 AM	While I'm a little disappointed that Kraegin spent the entire fight just moving around, there's not much to do about it because I didn't use better tactics. :clap: Good attitude :)
Eamane 11-14-07, 12:42 PM	So, poor news. I'm not going to be able to finish my fights this week (surprise...) I'm taking a step back from my online stuff in general until my scholastic situation is ironed out. I didn't even get started on Gakhnalak vs Yorick; sorry MWB, Macbrea. Gak: A sneak in dim light. Wonderful. I think this is going to be a bad week for me. Start with scroll of Expeditious Retreat in hand. Blurgta starts with scroll of Longstrider. Blurgta casts Longstrider and dons her shield, and we both move out to the central plaza. Gak moves to the exact center, casts Longstrider, draws his cold iron guisarme, and readies to move toward Yorick when he is located (either by himself or Blurgta). Blurgta draws her morningstar and patrols the outskirts of the plaza, like this: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=city;a=Gak,M,32,33;b=Bl ur,M,22,33,32,22,43,32,33,43,22,33 Hopefully, Yorick will come to me. If not, and I'm about to hit a delay penalty, I'll have to scout around looking for him: pick one of the other three starting boxes and move toward it, traveling through the torchlit street as much as possible. Blurgta will cast Light on her shield and lead; Gakh will follow 35' behind her. Since Gak moves twice as fast as Blurgta at this point, he'll move and ready to close when Yorick is located. If I have to do this a second time, he'll have to just move (no more Expeditious Retreat). Path example: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=city;a=Gak,M,30,33,10,3 2,6,4,19,4,30,33 Then go back to the original plan of waiting in the plaza for 10 rounds, then patrol another route if the delay penalty comes up again. In any event, the goal is melee. Gak will trip and both will attack. Blurgta will smite with her first attack. Simple stuff. Contingencies: - Sniping against a character with a CLW wand is of limited use. If either of my characters is hurt, use CLW wand right away to bring them within 6 HP of max. The only higher priority is to melee Yorick if I can. (Note: I failed to update properly, and have only 45 charges.) - Sounds: Both of us are more likely to hear a ghost sound than we are the real Yorick. A noise just means we're likely to be attacked soon from one direction or another. If either of us hears noises that sound like more than one dwarf, we'll both go prone for a couple of rounds before continuing what we were doing. If we hear only one, only disrupt our pattern just enough to make sure that we can get to that location in a single move or a charge. - Drow poison: there is unfortunately not much I can do about that. If Blurgta fails against it, Gak will stand guard over her until 10 rounds have passed and she either fails or passes the secondary save. If she fails it, sling her over a shoulder (raising Gak to medium encumbrance) and take her place in the patrol (drop her if I have a chance to attack). If Gak fails against it, Blurgta will cast Obscuring Mist from a scroll over him and wait for him to wake up (he really ought to unless the dice totally have it in for me). - Darkness spell: if I see it, it means Yorick is probably there. Chase it! - I can't think of a specific use for True Strike here, but it's available for improvisation if something comes up. That's about it. Since I have darkvision, he can't make all that much use of the darkness, but he can still snipe as normal. Hopefully I can catch him before he wears me down. Have fun. Yorick: Round 1: Tap tattoo of skate and move toward center of arena. General tactic here is to climb on top of one of the orange buildings overlooking the center of the arena. You will climb up from the hedge side of the building opposite of the arena. Once, up on the buildings you should spend a couple of rounds casting darkness on streets and alleys visible from your location. Dropping the globes as to not cover your current position. Once you have cast the second spell cast one as close to center of the arena as you can get it. Then hide. General tactics will be to snipe from the top of this building. If engaged in melee tap tattoo of force screen and cast darkness on self. Then draw sword and melee to death. Try to step away from opponent when casting darkness on self to avoid AoO. If it becomes a ranged battle. Then start rapid shooting from your position. You are allowed to lay prone on top of the roof and fight from that position. The crossbow can be used while laying down. Make sure to stand up if your opponent climbs up on top of the building to melee. Didn't get terribly far on Thorell vs Verren either, but I've posted what I have here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14331255&postcount=1493). This assuming that we will have pairings today, I'm not entirely sure what the situation with that is. If we don't, I should be able to finish them before the weekend. And speaking of the pairings, whoever sets them up, take me off the pitlord list, please.
McJarvis 11-14-07, 12:51 PM	So, poor news. I'm not going to be able to finish my fights this week (surprise...) I'm taking a step back from my online stuff in general until my scholastic situation is ironed out. I didn't even get started on Gakhnalak vs Yorick; sorry MWB, Macbrea. Gak: Yorick: Didn't get terribly far on Thorell vs Verren either, but I've posted what I have here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14331255&postcount=1493). This assuming that we will have pairings today, I'm not entirely sure what the situation with that is. If we don't, I should be able to finish them before the weekend. And speaking of the pairings, whoever sets them up, take me off the pitlord list, please. I totally understand- no need to apologize. I'm officially going into holiday mode soon, so I wouldn't have too much time to run Thorell anyway.
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 01:20 PM	:clap: Good attitude :) I always try to have that attitude. When I saw how Kraegin was just running around I asked myself why and looked at my tactics. The simple answer is I anticipated Malik to go invisible or use fly - not both. Since he did use both - it left the pitlord to have to make a decision between two contingencies. He picked one. I might've picked another - but since my tactics didn't specify how to handle this special situation - there's nothing to be done about it. I always try. I can't say I always succeed - but I do always try.
Malither76 11-14-07, 01:23 PM	Are there pairings this week or no? just wondering if I need to edit. thanks
Malither76 11-14-07, 01:24 PM	Oh and Tellin, do you know what the rewards should be for our fight, I know my 20% political career is not listed there yet but what is the bonus for your planar ally
TelinArtho 11-14-07, 01:33 PM	Well - I still have issues with the fight - so it might be best to hold off on an edit for now. The ally for Kraegin should be CR3 with an ECL10 character: ECL10-4=6: 3/6 * 25% = 12.5% There will be pairings barring serious issues on my end (remains to be seen :) ), but expect them later than usual due to the complexities. Reminder to everyone - the Pairings post in the Characters thread IS NOT TO BE USED THIS WEEK.
Malither76 11-14-07, 01:37 PM	ok, I will get Baelin edited then. and wait on Malik.