Post/Author/DateTime	Post
waywreth 10-18-06, 02:29 PM	Fights of the Week: October 18th Sheets Deadline for editing characters sheets is 21:00 CET. Central European Time (http://wwp.centraleuropeantime.eu/) shows the time. Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions part 1 and part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM Caterane will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Make sure that your character is not in Prison (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571107&goto=lastpost). Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need, there is a nice Template ready to use that will help. You could find very useful the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps, You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. Other useful links are Skills and Feats, Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. Recent News and Developments Skill Package Activities: Skill Packages are a combination of two or more skills or abilities that can be used in conjunction with a Free Activity to perform certain activities, many of them affecting your fight in a beneficial way. In order to use them, you must fulfill the skill requirements and pass the "Task" (mentioned in the entry) to benefit from the "Effect". As with all Free Activities, this must go into the title line of your sheet along with your ready status. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't attack pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play and above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
Hirumajoe 10-18-06, 02:35 PM	Ok, really dumb questiion: Valen's Sky fight against Osiris is being held over presumably since it hasn't been finished at this point. However, Osiris apparently now has a red violation for not listing the required 7 skills and is in prison. Which means she can't be in a fight. What does that make the status of Valen and can and can't I do with him? Thanks, Hirumajoe
TelinArtho 10-18-06, 02:37 PM	Already assigned fights take priority over the violation. Once that fight is resolved, Osiris will be put in prison. On another note, everyone in the EL 8 league - please welcome Sir Valkin back to the active roster. He needs a little more training before helping NiQil's Horsemen into retirement...
Zelck 10-18-06, 02:41 PM	Whee, 5 fights. Time to make my credit count something other than 0 :D.
hogarth 10-18-06, 02:42 PM	By the way, the announcement regarding Skill Packages needs some clarification. It's my understanding that most Skill Packages are in fact automatically applied and do not need a Free Activity to activate (the exceptions are Rob Store, Burglary, Discount and Sell Item). Also, I'm a bit confused (as usual): judging from the Rules of Gladius, it looks like we should be using the Attacker/Defender skill packages (except for Set Trap, the red-headed stepchild of Skill Packages). Is that the case? If so, an official-looking announcement may be useful to remind everybody.
MindWandererB 10-18-06, 02:49 PM	By the way, the announcement regarding Skill Packages needs some clarification. It's my understanding that most Skill Packages are in fact automatically applied and do not need a Free Activity to activate (the exceptions are Rob Store, Burglary, Discount and Sell Item). Also, I'm a bit confused (as usual): judging from the Rules of Gladius, it looks like we should be using the Attacker/Defender skill packages (except for Set Trap, the red-headed stepchild of Skill Packages). Is that the case? If so, an official-looking announcement may be useful to remind everybody. The skill packages all require a prominent reminder at the top of any character sheet to which they apply.
MindWandererB 10-18-06, 02:56 PM	Double post, sorry.
Gonbow 10-18-06, 04:14 PM	Editing deadline is up... an hour and 13 minutes ago, actually. No one else posted that yet, so I might as well do and feel useful ^_^
hogarth 10-18-06, 05:06 PM	The skill packages all require a prominent reminder at the top of any character sheet to which they apply. They do now; they didn't last time I checked, though. I'll have to fix that for R. Molehusband next time.
Pitlords 10-18-06, 06:14 PM	Pairings done Credits: +6: Caterane +4: Vath, Zelck, Sauro +3: Rith, Uther +2: Abyssal, hogarth, jerrick, mcjarvis, TM +1: FalseK, Highfire, Hirumajoe, lonewolf, macbrea, papapep +0: Zevox, MWB, niqil, stormwind -1: Telin
MindWandererB 10-18-06, 06:22 PM	+0: Zevox, MWB, niqil, stormwindI don't check these often enough... shouldn't I be at +1? I thought holdovers don't count.
Zelck 10-18-06, 06:31 PM	Noko is once again paired up as an ECL8 character :(. Thank goodness, because he was going to royally school Izumi and Andurwin... You could pair her against the ECL7 fight (Manzarf and Varjo) and turn the ECL6 one into a 1v1.
TelinArtho 10-18-06, 06:34 PM	Sir Valkin's tactics have been sent to Lonewolf. @MWB - good luck to you sir.
TheMagister 10-18-06, 06:38 PM	@My Gladiators - the Friday tactics deadline will be strictly adhered to; I have from now till the early morning hours of Saturday (US Central Time) to run those fights. The faster the tactics are in, the faster the fights post. I usually have a 24 hour turn-around. Thanks for the help with keeping my life easy! TM
Gonbow 10-18-06, 06:41 PM	Awww. Tatyana (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7118092&postcount=446) wasn't paired. I did mark her as ready and I thought Cat knew I was reactivating her... oh well, next week I suppose. Teach me not to send specific activation pms ^_^ (I don't suppose I could get a monster fight or... something? She just needs 100 xp to level up!) @Augustus1: A simple barbarian. It shall be a pleasure to defeat you ^_^ Unlike the myriad spellcasters that deserve Jade (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10321199)'s punishment, alas. @Erithmu: Tactics sent.
TARDIS 10-18-06, 07:09 PM	Tactics for Flaeli Stormbringer sent to Vathelokai. @ Etiquette_Gnome: "Ah! My first challenger is... a grappler? Who wrestles in battle? I mean, honestly? Well, they must be good if they've come this far. Let's see how they like the taste of my bow..." Looking forward to this battle greatly, EG!
MindWandererB 10-18-06, 07:09 PM	Sir Valkin's tactics have been sent to Lonewolf. @MWB - good luck to you sir.And so have Sunstroke's. This could be exciting, or it could be incredibly tedious and painful. But at least I have the pleasure of knowing that if it is tedious, it's not my fault. :) @McJarvis and False Keraptis: Crud, I just realized I forgot to prebuff Maya's horse. I kind of got her up at the last minute, when I saw that Aerryl was going to be held over again. Would you two mind if it was included anyway? Being mounted is pretty important for the character concept, and it will be pretty one-sided without. Edit: And I also just noticed that her Vigor stones are lacking an A, too. I know better than to put up a character that quickly... why do I do it anyway?
Zelck 10-18-06, 07:50 PM	@Zevox: Assuming the ECL 6 fight becomes just Izumi vs. Andurwin, tactics have been sent. @SauroGrenom: Ready when you are for Walden's miniquest. @My fighters: Please get your tactics in ASAP! ETA: @Abyssal Stalker and Stormwind: Please note that Noko, who's really ECL9, was improperly listed as ECL8. She had a monster fight last week, so she'll probably be re-paired against you two ECL7s as a team. Oh man, I just realized you two are in the plains. Against an invisible pixie. Ouch...
McJarvis 10-18-06, 07:52 PM	@McJarvis and False Keraptis: Crud, I just realized I forgot to prebuff Maya's horse. I kind of got her up at the last minute, when I saw that Aerryl was going to be held over again. Would you two mind if it was included anyway? Being mounted is pretty important for the character concept, and it will be pretty one-sided without. Fine by me.
Zevox 10-18-06, 08:26 PM	@Zevox: Assuming the ECL 6 fight becomes just Izumi vs. Andurwin, tactics have been sent. It has indeed been made such - check the pairings post in the character thread. And tactics recieved. @ TM - And in the interest of keeping your life easy, I went ahead and did Ceilia's tactics vs Shadowsong early. They should be in your PM box. And that should be a fun fight :) . Now, essays call again... *sigh* Istima's tactics vs Hood will be away tomorrow afternoon. Zevox
Caterane 10-18-06, 08:27 PM	Noko fixed @MWB: fixed
NiQil 10-18-06, 08:41 PM	@ Papapeperoni: Tactics for Amantar sent via PM. @ Jerick_QueKiri: Tactics for Atalan sent via PM. @ Zelck: Tactics for Axhind sent via PM. Please check the note at the top of my tactics ASAP.
TheMagister 10-18-06, 09:03 PM	@Jerrick_Quekiri - tactics for Tessero Valis vs. Atalan sent via PM. Should be straightforward. @Papapeperoni - tactics received. Simple enough. Thanks for being fast with 'em. @ Zevox - tactics and addendum received and understood. No questions. Thanks to you as well! :D TM
TheMagister 10-18-06, 10:51 PM	@Macbrea - tactics for Hood vs. Istima the Scary sent via PM. {shiver} That's a lot of bang. TM
MindWandererB 10-18-06, 10:59 PM	@False_Keraptis, Zelck, and the aforementioned lonewolf: Tactics are sent. Is is my imagination, or are folks getting a lot better at optimizing? I used to have more fights where I was pretty sure of winning--these days it seems like every fight is a major struggle at best.
Zevox 10-18-06, 11:02 PM	@ Macbrea - Likewise, tactics for Istima vs Hood have been PMed. That essay didn't take as long as I figured. Oh, and Izumi's tactics recieved, thanks. I'll see about running that tomorrow - one way or the other, it looks like it'll be fast. @Macbrea - tactics for Hood vs. Istima the Scary sent via PM. {shiver} TM If you think hes scary now, wait until next level - he'll have more hp pre-vigor than Hood :D . Or level 7, when he graduates to Pegasus mount :plotting: . I'm really looking forward to that one. Zevox
TheMagister 10-18-06, 11:02 PM	I think it's you. :P Nah, I agree with you. The characters usually have fewer weaknesses, and I've been winning with Rubicanti basically on nothing more than nerve and luck for the last three weeks or so. I think it's coming down to a "who writes the best tactics" thing. The maps are also playing a HUGE part in the battles (and I happen to like that facet of the CoCo). TM
TheMagister 10-18-06, 11:07 PM	@ Macbrea - Likewise, tactics for Istima vs Hood have been PMed. That essay didn't take as long as I figured. Fooey on you. Mine took like, two hours to write. Barring some stroke of genius on your part or some stroke of idiocy on my part (likely), Hood stands a fighting chance. If you think hes scary now, wait until next level - he'll have more hp pre-vigor than Hood :D . Or level 7, when he graduates to Pegasus mount :plotting: . I'm really looking forward to that one. Zevox Not that Hood's an HP machine, or anything. Are you gonna take Psionic Body, or something? I also look forward with anticipation to level 6. Ohhh, Deep Impact FELL SHOT...I long for your easy solution to combat. Mmmm.. :bow: :bow: :bow: After level 6, it just gets plain NASTY.
Zevox 10-18-06, 11:15 PM	Fooey on you. Mine took like, two hours to write. Barring some stroke of genius on your part or some stroke of idiocy on my part (likely), Hood stands a fighting chance. I meant a literal essay - college homework. Chaucer, to be specific. The tactics didn't take long - just had to decide between damage and ego whip. I can see Hood getting a chance, but it'll cost you, and it won't be an overly large one overall (high rolls needed all around to hit Istima's AC). Not that Hood's an HP machine, or anything. Are you gonna take Psionic Body, or something? Aw, how'd you guess :P . Heh, yep - 42 hp base, plus powerstones of vigor (including those he can have more hp than NiQil's Horsemen did at that level). That'll be rather tough for most folk to take out before his blasting flattens them, especially the warriors that have to deal with his AC. I also look forward with anticipation to level 6. Ohhh, Deep Impact...I long for your easy solution to combat. Mmmm.. :bow: :bow: :bow: After level 6, it just gets plain NASTY. Bah, expending your focus for that just means no psishot for you. Or did we rule that Psicrystal Containment focus could be expended at the same time as regular focus? I don't remember for sure. Zevox
MindWandererB 10-18-06, 11:24 PM	Bah, expending your focus for that just means no psishot for you. Or did we rule that Psicrystal Containment focus could be expended at the same time as regular focus? I don't remember for sure.That answer was "yes" (thanks to Ask Wizards and the most illiterate answer in FAQ history), but even still, it takes two move actions to regain two foci. Decent, but not great. @Zevox: I hope my new character catches up with Istima at some point in the not-horribly-distant future. He was one of the main inspirations for her. Glad to hear that a pegasus was in his plans--Maya's future goal was going to be between that and a similar option (which you can probably guess based on her alignment). Now she just has to survive ECL 3 and &^%$!* kineticts....
Milov 10-18-06, 11:26 PM	McJarvis - Tactics for Ihdald sent out. I feel kinda dumb... I forgot to update Ventr's sheet's titlebar and he got left out this week. Oh well though, live and learn after all.
Zelck 10-18-06, 11:27 PM	I also look forward with anticipation to level 6. Ohhh, Deep Impact...I long for your easy solution to combat. Mmmm.. :bow: :bow: :bow: You mean Fell Shot, right? Don't want you going to prison and all that ;). @Zevox: Andurwin could so take Istima! That goblin doesn't even stand a chance If I didn't overlook the obvious! I was just going easy on him the other times! Third time's the charm, right? ;) ;) ;). Although even if Andurwin can't win, I think Walden has a good chance ;). ETA: @MindwandererB: Shouldn't it be a move action to refocus yourself and a full round to refocus the psicrystal?
Erithmu 10-18-06, 11:48 PM	@TM: Tactics for Torel sent. Shadowsong's are going to take a little longer with the terrain issue, and trying to figure out what to do w/ Zevox....
Zevox 10-19-06, 12:15 AM	@Zevox: I hope my new character catches up with Istima at some point in the not-horribly-distant future. He was one of the main inspirations for her. Glad to hear that a pegasus was in his plans--Maya's future goal was going to be between that and a similar option (which you can probably guess based on her alignment). Now she just has to survive ECL 3 and &^%$!* kineticts.... Really? Huh - never figured one of my characters would inspire anyone. Truth be told, I think the success Istima, Ceilia, and Eraca are enjoying is mostly flukes either of rolls, opponent pulls, or design (I can tell you I never expected any of my characters to do better than an average record). I know I've been getting better at this, but I still don't know if taking inspiration from one of my guys is the best idea out there. And Pegasus or another mount... well, I'm honestly not sure. Unicorn maybe? That'd explain the charisma (Leadership I think is the only way to get one of those). @Zevox: Andurwin could so take Istima! That goblin doesn't even stand a chance If I didn't overlook the obvious! I was just going easy on him the other times! Third time's the charm, right? ;) ;) ;) . Actually, I think he could. Energy Missile is just plain evil powerful, and Ego Whip is one of Istima's biggest weaknesses, what with the Goblin penalty to charisma. And he does have the higher int score (sorry, I just refuse to play Gray Elves - we have way too many around here already). 'Course a powerstone of Specified Energy Adaptation or two would help with that ;) . Actually, looking at him now, I think our future plans may be somewhat similar. Solicit Psicrystal wouldn't happen to be to set up for Telekinetic Manuever, would it? Although even if Andurwin can't win, I think Walden has a good chance ;) . Yeah. Can't think of any way to take down a super-hider Ghost without a good arena roll or a much higher spot check than he has. Though I think my current ECL 8, Eraca, might take him - Magic Missiles hurt ghosts just fine :) . and trying to figure out what to do w/ Zevox.... :confused: ? Did I miss something? Zevox
Zelck 10-19-06, 12:19 AM	No, it's actually for Control Body. I'm not going to take Telekinetic Maneuver (gasp!) because I have waaaaaaay to many level 6 powers I want to take. As in Control Body, Energy Ball, Death Urge, Dimension Door, Energy Adaptation, and Freedom of Movement. Plus Metamorphosis and Schism from feats. I like my fourth level powers ;).
McJarvis 10-19-06, 12:20 AM	Pairings done Credits: +6: Caterane +4: Vath, Zelck, Sauro +3: Rith, Uther +2: Abyssal, hogarth, jerrick, mcjarvis, TM +1: FalseK, Highfire, Hirumajoe, lonewolf, macbrea, papapep +0: Zevox, MWB, niqil, stormwind -1: Telin I'm running three fights(an ECL 3, 4, and 5) and only got two credits-> is there a State of Emergency? (I am running two gladiators this week)
Zevox 10-19-06, 12:34 AM	No, it's actually for Control Body. I'm not going to take Telekinetic Maneuver (gasp!) because I have waaaaaaay to many level 6 powers I want to take. As in Control Body, Energy Ball, Death Urge, Dimension Door, Energy Adaptation, and Freedom of Movement. Plus Metamorphosis and Schism from feats. I like my fourth level powers ;). *whistles* Yeah, thats a lot of powers to choose from. Heh, and I was thinking of ditching a fourth level one for Istima for a third - currently I can't decide between making his other one next level Touchsight (to save on powerstones), Energy Wall (could be quite useful in some arenas, partilcularly paired with Solicit Psicrystal and Energy Push), Time Hop (I'm sure theres plenty of creative ways that could be used, and it fits with him being a Nomad), Telekinetic Thrust (not for tossing colossal objects around - for relieving low will save foes of thier equipment :) ), or Energy Retort (make trying to hurt Istima even more painful). For fourth level though all I want is Freedom of Movement, Energy Adaptation, Telekinetic Manuever, and maybe Dimension Door. Death Urge is nice, but too out-of-character for Istima. And all those discipline-specific ones aren't ones I'd go out of my way to get, except maybe Schism. Hm, actually, now that I think of it, since I'm not going to get him Psionic Fly, I should probably cough up the credits to change one of his powers to Catfall later on in case his Pegasus gets killed. Zevox
Erithmu 10-19-06, 12:47 AM	@TM: Tactics for Shadowsong sent ... I think I have an answer, but I agree w/ MWB in that things are getting more creative around fighting not only the gladiator, but the maps as well. Of course I still have to decide which way I want to take Shadowsong. I have like 3 written down options, and 2 others in my head.
MindWandererB 10-19-06, 01:01 AM	Really? Huh - never figured one of my characters would inspire anyone. Truth be told, I think the success Istima, Ceilia, and Eraca are enjoying is mostly flukes either of rolls, opponent pulls, or design (I can tell you I never expected any of my characters to do better than an average record). I know I've been getting better at this, but I still don't know if taking inspiration from one of my guys is the best idea out there.Well, to be fair, Istima was the greatest influence, but I borrows ideas from several other successful characters--Karen, Alagar and Loddick--and one not-so-successful character, Perius. Maybe I'm trying to do too much, but we'll see how it plays out. And as for the mount: Maya is NG, not CG, so unicorns and pegasi are equally undesirable. Having said that much, I'll let you be surprised... in a few months.
Zevox 10-19-06, 01:20 AM	And as for the mount: Maya is NG, not CG, so unicorns and pegasi are equally undesirable. Having said that much, I'll let you be surprised... in a few months. Yeah, I figured that didn't make overly much sense. Hmm... *looks at exotic mount list in rules* Giant Owl or Eagle? Nah, I can't see why you'd take those over a Pegasus, with the slower speed and no benefit in the combat department, and them being more expensive... *looks through SRD* Nope, nada jumping out at me... huh, I'm stumped. Guess I just get to wait then. Zevox
Erithmu 10-19-06, 01:30 AM	Well, to be fair, Istima was the greatest influence, but I borrows ideas from several other successful characters--Karen, Alagar and Loddick--and one not-so-successful character, Perius. Maybe I'm trying to do too much, but we'll see how it plays out. And as for the mount: Maya is NG, not CG, so unicorns and pegasi are equally undesirable. Having said that much, I'll let you be surprised... in a few months. *blinks* Well maybe Loddick just has some surprize power. I do kinda see where you probably will go with Maya. But the journey is always the interesting part, not the arrival. That and Alagar and Karen are just monsters in their own right. Not sure I would call Loddick successful, I have been in a slump with him. Then again he only gets better from here on out w/ slayer levels. There are scarrier things that could be out there. I'm picking up a slew of Leadership cohorts trying out some of my other builds. I'd also be curious how Ephraim does in the arena. She has potential to be really really sneaky for some people. Now if I could just squeeze another 5ft of movement out of somewhere...
Zelck 10-19-06, 01:37 AM	I'd also be curious how Ephraim does in the arena. She has potential to be really really sneaky for some people. Now if I could just squeeze another 5ft of movement out of somewhere... Quickness This kind of armor increases the wearer’s speed by 5 feet. Thus, a character whose normal speed in armor is 20 feet moves 25 feet in armor of quickness. Faint psychoportation; ML 4th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, burst; Price +1 bonus. :D
TheMagister 10-19-06, 01:47 AM	@Erithmu - tactics for Shadowsong received. :confused: Sent back many questions for clarification. TM
Etiquette_Gnome 10-19-06, 03:43 AM	@ Vathelokai & Hirumajoe - Tactics for Ynotar and Carandol have been sent
Maraxus 10-19-06, 04:01 AM	Noko fixed @MWB: fixed Are you sure? Who do I build my Noko tactics agains now? The ECL 7 two?
MindWandererB 10-19-06, 04:05 AM	The list in the Battles thread is still messed up, saying this: Izumi (Macbrea) & Andurwin (Zelck) vs. Noko[ECL8] (Maraxus) : Zevox [Temple] [Inter-League] But the list in the Characters thread looks better: Manzarf (Abyssal Stalker) & Varjo (Stormwind) vs. Noko[ECL9] (Maraxus) : hogarth [Plains] [Inter-League] Now that's a fight I'm looking forward to seeing. So yes, you write tactics against those two as a team.
TheMagister 10-19-06, 04:21 AM	Yeesh. Super Sneeky Invisibleness vs. Unsneakattackable Incorporealness. Oh yeah. There's an ugly dwarf in the mix, too. Color me happy to not be Hogarth.
Papapeperoni 10-19-06, 04:38 AM	Grakkar's so gonna lose. I'll shoot myself for not looking at my opponents carefully enough. My opponent can fly :waits:. That's a bummer. If I follow tactics to the letter, I'm doomed. Ignore companions, hehe. And I can't reach him. Uh-oh. :eek: @TM: Tactics for Grakkar sent :). @McJarvis: Tactics for Marcus sent. @Niqil: Tactics received. Greetings, --Papapeperoni
Vathelokai 10-19-06, 04:46 AM	@Tardis: You rock. Dr. Who fans unite! @TARDIS and Ettiquite_Gnome: Both tactics recieved. Will work on it after I finish the amazing dragon/ogre/sniper/druid battle of delaying +4. @lonewolf and MWB: Working on the above mentioned fight right now. @Abyssal Stalker: Tactics sent for Tweak. May be a long fight. @Hogarth: Tactics sent for Zodiac. May be a short fight.
TheMagister 10-19-06, 04:57 AM	Grakkar's so gonna lose. I'll shoot myself for not looking at my opponents carefully enough. My opponent can fly :waits:. That's a bummer. If I follow tactics to the letter, I'm doomed. Ignore companions, hehe. And I can't reach him. Uh-oh. :eek: @TM: Tactics for Grakkar sent :). @McJarvis: Tactics for Marcus sent. @Niqil: Tactics received. Greetings, --Papapeperoni It's not all uphill. The map does 1/2 the work for you (hint: see ceiling height). Grakkar still has a chance. Crits with high strength bows work wonders when your minimum damage is 33. TM
False_Keraptis 10-19-06, 05:08 AM	(sorry, I just refuse to play Gray Elves - we have way too many around here already) Amen! There's something off about an ECL 0 race with a bonus to a casting stat.
False_Keraptis 10-19-06, 05:09 AM	@ MindWandererB: tactics recieved.
Maraxus 10-19-06, 05:14 AM	Yeesh. Super Sneeky Invisibleness vs. Unsneakattackable Incorporealness. Oh yeah. There's an ugly dwarf in the mix, too. Color me happy to not be Hogarth. Oh, I have to fight a ghost? ...No, wait, that's a shadow, did I get a monster fight again? When did shadows became player characters *checks this* ... Looks like in CoCo they are and with a rather nice LA ... Hm, and there a wights, Vampire Spawns, Ghols and all the other undead, too. Whow, holy love for undead! (*Imagines, what he would like to play*)
MindWandererB 10-19-06, 05:24 AM	@Tardis: You rock. Dr. Who fans unite!I meant to comment on this earlier, being a long time fan myself. I hesitate to say so, because I'm more of a Tom Baker/Sylvester McCoy fan, and know next to nothing of these newfangled Chris Eccleston and David Tennant fellows about whom everyone is raving these days (not having cable TV, myself).
Vathelokai 10-19-06, 05:26 AM	I meant to comment on this earlier, being a long time fan myself. I hesitate to say so, because I'm more of a Tom Baker/Sylvester McCoy fan, and know next to nothing of these newfangled Chris Eccleston and David Tennant fellows about whom everyone is raving these days (not having cable TV, myself). I was home sick one day, and as luck would have it, the SciFi channel was doing an new Dr. Who marathon. Ultra cheesy, but I love that when I'm sick and full of medicine.
bgt 10-19-06, 07:42 AM	Unless I'm missing something here, neither Luxt'l nor Neidr were paired this week. Both were set as ready for Oct. 18, and aren't in the prison. So, as I said, am I missing something here?
Abyssal Stalker 10-19-06, 07:49 AM	Unless I'm missing something here, neither Luxt'l nor Neidr were paired this week. Both were set as ready for Oct. 18, and aren't in the prison. So, as I said, am I missing something here? Actually, they are (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8264103&postcount=2).
Zevox 10-19-06, 08:25 AM	Amen! There's something off about an ECL 0 race with a bonus to a casting stat. Actually, its not that - I don't see any problem with such when its counterbalanced appropriately (in this case the strength penalty does that I'd say). Its more so that they're the only one with that bonus causing them to be way too common around here - if there were another race or two with the same such advantage and thus that particular race wasn't so populous I might very well use them (say, if Blues didn't have +1 LA, for instance). Zevox
Erithmu 10-19-06, 08:37 AM	@Erithmu - tactics for Shadowsong received. :confused: Sent back many questions for clarification. TM Note to self: never write tactics that make sense in my head right before I go to sleep ... clarifying comming up. @Zelck: ... watch this ... If a magic bonus is of type 'unnamed' in description and 'enhancement' by the power/spell that is used to create the item; which type of bonus is it?
waywreth 10-19-06, 08:49 AM	@Zelck - Tactics for Matthis in Matthis Dar'ath (waywreth) vs. Kagun Flinthand (cgriffis) : Zelck [Arena] sent via PM.
Macbrea 10-19-06, 08:54 AM	Good question.. which of these am I writting my tactics for? Battles thread Izumi (Macbrea) & Andurwin (Zelck) vs. Noko[ECL8] (Maraxus) : Zevox [Temple] [Inter-League] Noko is [ECL 9] Pitlords pairings thread Izumi (Macbrea) & Andurwin (Zelck) : Zevox [Temple] Big difference. One Izumi can win. The other is impossible.
Zevox 10-19-06, 09:02 AM	Good question.. which of these am I writting my tactics for? Battles thread Izumi (Macbrea) & Andurwin (Zelck) vs. Noko[ECL8] (Maraxus) : Zevox [Temple] [Inter-League] Noko is [ECL 9] Pitlords pairings thread Izumi (Macbrea) & Andurwin (Zelck) : Zevox [Temple] Big difference. One Izumi can win. The other is impossible. The latter - Cat has a tendency not to update the Battles Thread post overly quickly, so the Pairings Thread one is always right in cases like these. Noko is actually ECL 9, so she was pushed up to battle the level 7s. Zevox
Vathelokai 10-19-06, 09:02 AM	Note to self: never write tactics that make sense in my head right before I go to sleep ... clarifying comming up. @Zelck: ... watch this ... If a magic bonus is of type 'unnamed' in description and 'enhancement' by the power/spell that is used to create the item; which type of bonus is it? The item is unnamed and the spell is enhancement. There are numerous examples of this, like a xeph manifesting burst racially and then again with psipower. Not all items/spells/abilities of the same name/origin have the same bonus type.
Maraxus 10-19-06, 09:03 AM	Good question.. which of these am I writting my tactics for? Battles thread Izumi (Macbrea) & Andurwin (Zelck) vs. Noko[ECL8] (Maraxus) : Zevox [Temple] [Inter-League] Pitlords pairings thread Izumi (Macbrea) & Andurwin (Zelck) : Zevox [Temple] Big difference. One Izumi can win. The other is impossible. Noko is in fact ECL 9, so it's the lower one. Last week I appologised for not mentioning the leveling, this week, I don't ;) Btw, Noko's tactic against a stinky fat goblin and a moll in see-through clothes sent. :rolleyes: Man, those are the right opponents for a NG defenderess of all that is pure, and nice and beautyful. ;) Sure, Durin's tactics too, including a clarification.
hogarth 10-19-06, 09:07 AM	@McJarvis: Tactics sent for Kilpquabjeg (vs. Ihdald Seaslash). @Vathelokai, Maraxus: Tactics received for Zodiac and Noko.
Vathelokai 10-19-06, 09:41 AM	Chameleon and Aerryl Newest version posted. Chameleon makes liberal use of the tumble skill, AoO's removed, Ogre uses the spell like invis as a standard action. Please tear this one apart. If I'm going to work on a fight this long, I want it to be right. The dice roller is pretty crazy looking by now; 40 some deleted rolls, some rolls have incorrect targets, lots of missing high ground bonuses. Nothing jumped out at me as roll altering, but someone with patience might find something.
lonewolf 10-19-06, 09:44 AM	about the Aerryl & Chameleon vs monsters redux: Round 26: Both ogre mage and dragon should miss because of concealment. There are two deleted miss chance roll at this round that should be used. Round 28: There is no miss chance roll for the ogre. => another potential miss. Also note that once the dragon is down, there is no way for the Ogre mage to locate me. The exact communication from he dragon to the ogre on which square Im on until then is harsh, but I accept that as pitlords decision. EDIT: Also while tumbling is acceptable, it is unneccessary: You can´t execute an Attack of Opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.
Vathelokai 10-19-06, 10:40 AM	about the Aerryl & Chameleon vs monsters redux: Round 26: Both ogre mage and dragon should miss because of concealment. There are two deleted miss chance roll at this round that should be used. Round 28: There is no miss chance roll for the ogre. => another potential miss. Also note that once the dragon is down, there is no way for the Ogre mage to locate me. The exact communication from he dragon to the ogre on which square Im on until then is harsh, but I accept that as pitlords decision. EDIT: Also while tumbling is acceptable, it is unneccessary: The problem is not labeling clearly. What is happening here is that Chameleon attacks the round before, and looses concealment (I judged sniping is not reasonable since you would still be close enough to be full attacked). The round in question the monsters move in and attack. Since Chameleon has not had a chance to move yet, so has not rehidden, since hiding is part of the move. Then Chameleon is based and visible, so she has to tumble out to avoid AoO. I looked it up in the SRD to make sure; AoOs interupt the flow of combat, so those attacks take place before moving out of the square, and thus before the hiding begins. Because both opponents have reach, withdraw would provoke AoO.An attack of opportunity “interrupts” the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character’s turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character’s turn). As for blindsense and the ogre targeting, the ogre delayed to after the dragon to wait to see which space she bites into, and then pokes around in that square. The dragon could also state where the Chameleon's location is. Yes, harsh, but by the rules it seems reasonable to me.
TelinArtho 10-19-06, 11:40 AM	And so have Sunstroke's. This could be exciting, or it could be incredibly tedious and painful. But at least I have the pleasure of knowing that if it is tedious, it's not my fault. Well, from my perspective, it would only be incredibly tedious and painful if you caused it to be so... so there. I meant a literal essay - college homework. Chaucer, to be specific. The tactics didn't take long - just had to decide between damage and ego whip. I can see Hood getting a chance, but it'll cost you, and it won't be an overly large one overall (high rolls needed all around to hit Istima's AC). Ooh do tell. I miss my Chaucer classes I took in college...
Zevox 10-19-06, 01:52 PM	Andurwin vs Izumi is up. Save for forfeits this is probably the fastest fight I've ever run. Zevox
Zelck 10-19-06, 02:01 PM	Looks good to me. Thanks for the quick run, Zevox :).
Macbrea 10-19-06, 02:01 PM	The clang of battle is DC -10 to hear. Therefore, I figured 20 bells tied to a 10ft pole would be at least similar. Figured the battle could go that way either way. Off to edit
bgt 10-19-06, 03:13 PM	Actually, they are (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8264103&postcount=2). Thanks. Don't know how I missed that. :nonono: Ah, well, best go fix that then.
Zelck 10-19-06, 05:07 PM	Matthis vs. Kagun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10405617&postcount=142) is up. One roll decided it all.
waywreth 10-19-06, 06:05 PM	Matthis vs. Kagun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10405617&postcount=142) is up. One roll decided it all. I figured as much. The 1/3 rule coupled with the limited items allowed really cripples the wizard at low levels. I'm not surprised there are so many Psion builds as of late. Ah well, one more fight and I can buy him a wand of magic missles.
MindWandererB 10-19-06, 06:10 PM	I figured as much. The 1/3 rule coupled with the limited items allowed really cripples the wizard at low levels. I'm not surprised there are so many Psion builds as of late.Although when I read that, I figured it was the wizard that won! Blindness is an amazing, if fallible, choice.
TheMagister 10-19-06, 11:47 PM	Torel vs. Grakkar. Fight's done. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10400713&postcount=137) Didn't go the way anyone thought, really. Kinda. You'll have to see. TM
Erithmu 10-20-06, 12:11 AM	Actually TM the reason I used the scroll is that it is a spell completion item, so it actually went off on the ready and doesn't require the full round casting. Granted he would have gotten the shot off, but the nausea would have come sooner.
TheMagister 10-20-06, 12:39 AM	That's not the way I understood it at all. Lemme go check. ... Yeah, I found it. It's kinda conflicting: Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, whether it's a scroll, a wand, or a pair of boots, unless the item description specifically states otherwise. and then this: This is the activation method for scrolls. <snip> Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does. Hmm. This is a conundrum. The only thing that I can think of is that the first instance is a global rule, and the second instance is a secondary rule. Indeed, activating a scroll is a standard action, unless the item description specifically states otherwise. Looking in the DMG, under SCROLLS we find these tidbits: :Using a scroll is basically like casting a spell. :Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be (see Cast a Spell, page 140 of the PHB). :A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. Since the only specific description of a scroll of summon swarm we have is the actual spell description, I'm inclined to rule that the spell description is the item description, and that it takes a full round to activate because the description of a scroll of summon swarm says that that is how long it takes. If you can find something different (perhaps in the FAQ, which I don't have access to at work) I'm all ears. TM
Zevox 10-20-06, 12:48 AM	Re: Scrolls casting time - If I recall that topic was debated back in Cerebrus13's old community vote thread way back when (everyone remember that?). Strangely, the result is missing from the Court Decisions... anyone remember what was decided about that? Zevox
TARDIS 10-20-06, 12:49 AM	From the 3.5 DND Main FAQ, emphasis mine: Activating any magic item is a standard action, unless the item duplicates a spell effect that has a longer casting time or unless the item description specifies a different casting time. The sections on spell completion and spell trigger items should include the caveat that activating the item takes as long as casting the stored spell would take. Thus, it takes 1 hour to activate a scroll with an identify spell on it. A scroll or a wand with any of the summon monster spells in it takes a full round to activate, just as casting a summon monster spell does. That's the relevant part to this fight, but look here: A command word item takes a standard action to activate, no matter what the casting time of the spell it duplicates. In general, command word items don’t duplicate spells with long casting times. So a custom item, say a 3/day command word item that casts Summon Swarm, would only take a standard action. The FAQ continues: Use-activated items typically don’t have any activation times (because they function continually or because you activate them automatically as part of the action you take to use the item). Like command word items, use-activated items usually don’t duplicate spells with long casting times. Activating a scroll (or any other spell completion item) is “like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure (such as from armor)” (see “Activation” on page 238 of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide). An armored rogue who activates a scroll with Use Magic Device suffers the normal arcane spell failure chance.
Erithmu 10-20-06, 12:55 AM	Point retracted ... oh well doesn't effect the fight.
Vathelokai 10-20-06, 05:43 AM	Flaeli Stormbringer (TARDIS) vs. Ynotar Mihm Eer (Etiquette_Gnome) : Vathelokai [Arena] is finished. Please spot me for errors. Quick and simple fight, decided by 1 dice roll.
Etiquette_Gnome 10-20-06, 09:45 AM	Are we ignoring Ynotar's Deflect Arrows? I know that only helps me, but I was just making sure you were aware of that fact.
Erithmu 10-20-06, 10:04 AM	@Vath: just a note - you can still manifest without having a focus. A focus just gives you some nifty options when you expend it or when you are focused. Consider: expending focus to manifest defensively (Take 15 on conc check) . Most of the time you wouldn't have the focus at the end of the manifesting yet the power still goes off.
TARDIS 10-20-06, 10:39 AM	@Vathelokai: Thanks for pitlording! Too bad about the energy ray... Looks like I really could have taken that one if not for that. @Etiquette_Gnome: Good call about the encumbrance--- this is the first time I've fought in CoCO, and some rules aren't used very often in my home games IRL, so I'm still getting the hang of them. Congratulations on your victory, sir!
Stormwind 10-20-06, 10:45 AM	@Abyssal Stalker, hogarth: Tactics for Varjo and Manzarf in interleague fight vs Noko sent via PM.
False_Keraptis 10-20-06, 10:45 AM	@ McJarvis: Tactics sent for Fnorri
Vathelokai 10-20-06, 01:23 PM	Are we ignoring Ynotar's Deflect Arrows? I know that only helps me, but I was just making sure you were aware of that fact. Oops. Completely forgot about that. I'll edit it in in a bit.
Hirumajoe 10-20-06, 01:35 PM	Umm... I didn't know when this happened. I thought I was just fighting doing the held over fight vs Osiris? Now I see two fights for Valen Sky... Did I miss something? Osiris (Iced) vs. Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) : Jerrick QueKiri [Forest] [Week 2] Khabil Barukh (Traevanon) vs. Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) : Zelck [Plains] Do I need to get tactics into Zelck asap?
Zelck 10-20-06, 02:16 PM	Umm... I didn't know when this happened. I thought I was just fighting doing the held over fight vs Osiris? Now I see two fights for Valen Sky... Did I miss something? Osiris (Iced) vs. Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) : Jerrick QueKiri [Forest] [Week 2] Khabil Barukh (Traevanon) vs. Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) : Zelck [Plains] Do I need to get tactics into Zelck asap? Uh... that's a really good question. I think Khabil might end up against a monster unless you have Valen just forfeit the held over fight. In any case, I'll extend Khabil and Valen's deadlines for tactics to Sunday at noon EST.
Hirumajoe 10-20-06, 02:21 PM	Uh... that's a really good question. I think Khabil might end up against a monster unless you have Valen just forfeit the held over fight. In any case, I'll extend Khabil and Valen's deadlines for tactics to Sunday at noon EST. Can I do that? Just have Valen surrender the first fight and go directly to the second? Because I'd be happy with doing that, however, I'm thinking that I'd need permission for that to happen. I'll shoot a PM off to Caterane and see what he says.
Zevox 10-20-06, 02:31 PM	Can I do that? Just have Valen surrender the first fight and go directly to the second? Because I'd be happy with doing that, however, I'm thinking that I'd need permission for that to happen. I'll shoot a PM off to Caterane and see what he says. You always have the option of forfeiting a fight. I can't think of any instance where you couldn't. Zevox
Hirumajoe 10-20-06, 02:36 PM	Yes, I'm just thinking it would mean Valen's getting XP and gold from *two* fights in a single week (even if the first was held over). Its certainly unusual (mainly because characters aren't assigned 2 fights in a week as a rule).
Abyssal Stalker 10-20-06, 02:36 PM	Tweak vs Durin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10413335&postcount=143) is done. I know there are things you are going to complain. Bring them up. @Zevox: How about the MQ?
Zevox 10-20-06, 02:50 PM	@Zevox: How about the MQ? 'Doh! Been meaning to post there, but got distracted designing UnCon characters. Be right there :) . Zevox
TheMagister 10-20-06, 06:50 PM	Tweak vs Durin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10413335&postcount=143) is done. I know there are things you are going to complain. Bring them up. Did Tweak! already use up her bard song for this 3FC? TM
False_Keraptis 10-20-06, 07:15 PM	@ McJarvis: tactics received for Chosen One.
TheMagister 10-20-06, 08:03 PM	For those interested, the tactics and sheets for Celia and Shadowsong are up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10400796&postcount=138). @Erithmu - congratuations on what has to be the cleanest character sheet I've ever had the privilege of chopping (so very little of it) up. I think I'll save one of your sheets and use it for my own in a re-design. The organization made it really easy, and there are no extra spaces or returns. Easy to read and everything, too! @Zevox - hmmm. Thanks for submitting tactics. :P Fight is in progress. :cheer:
Zelck 10-20-06, 10:31 PM	Dragonlily vs. Axhind (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=705852&page=5) is done.
Zevox 10-20-06, 10:44 PM	@Erithmu - congratuations on what has to be the cleanest character sheet I've ever had the privilege of chopping (so very little of it) up. I think I'll save one of your sheets and use it for my own in a re-design. The organization made it really easy, and there are no extra spaces or returns. Easy to read and everything, too! @Zevox - hmmm. Thanks for submitting tactics. :P We must have different definitions of clean sheets, because it seems to me that Ceilia's is just as clean as Shadowsong's. And it has the advantage of no unecessary font tags :P . Zevox
Erithmu 10-20-06, 11:06 PM	oh yea .... my font tags just took out your horse :)
Zevox 10-20-06, 11:12 PM	oh yea .... my font tags just took out your horse :) Was that a reference to the battle, or the fact that I use a full breakdown for the horse's stats? And blech, damn mind thrust. Don't suppose that int roll TM made would let Ceilia heal her horse? With the silence spell working that MM wand is useless to Shadowsong now unless she wants to stand where Ceilia can melee her. Hmm, and actually, he rolled too high for the one wand shot. He did 3d4+3 damage when its only CL 3 (2d4+2). So its possible Foresight should have survived that. Zevox
Erithmu 10-20-06, 11:20 PM	Blech your right ... I just thought it was a witty and funny comeback. *shrugs* Your right, I think the horse survives w/ 1 hp if you drop the last roll. 14+7 = 21 ... that means I think I'm taking a charge, or at least an attack. Hrum ... lots of int checks.
Zevox 10-20-06, 11:28 PM	Blech your right ... I just thought it was a witty and funny comeback. *shrugs* Your right, I think the horse survives w/ 1 hp if you drop the last roll. 14+7 = 21 ... that means I think I'm taking a charge, or at least an attack. Hrum ... lots of int checks. *shrugs* A charge in that map isn't exactly likely, and Ceilia doesn't depend on them anyway. The important thing is that you're stuck either coming in close (which is exactly what I want, mount or no mount), or doing archery (yeah, with that attack, vs Ceilia's AC and wand... not the best of options). Zevox
Vathelokai 10-21-06, 01:22 AM	Are we ignoring Ynotar's Deflect Arrows? I know that only helps me, but I was just making sure you were aware of that fact. Added to fight. Ynotar was undamaged in the end. @TARDIS: Flaeli only used 2 arrows this fight (others were recovered). @Etiquette_Gnome: Good call about the encumbrance--- this is the first time I've fought in CoCO, and some rules aren't used very often in my home games IRL, so I'm still getting the hang of them. Congratulations on your victory, sir!One way to deal with it is to start equipment on the ground in your space (at least I've always allowed it). Some pitlords might make you drop it durring the first round. Flaeli could have dropped her sword, etc. Wouldn't have changed anything this fight, but could be usefull. @Vath: just a note - you can still manifest without having a focus. A focus just gives you some nifty options when you expend it or when you are focused.:confused: Wow. I just reread the rules and you're right. I must have imagined that. That changes my outlook quite a bit.
Vathelokai 10-21-06, 01:24 AM	Tweak vs Durin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10413335&postcount=143) is done. I know there are things you are going to complain. Bring them up. Wow. Wasn't expecting that. I'm fine with it. Any comments from Maraxus? Did Tweak! already use up her bard song for this 3FC?Yes, used it in the last fight, which I didn't properly link.
Zevox 10-21-06, 01:29 AM	:confused: Wow. I just reread the rules and you're right. I must have imagined that. That changes my outlook quite a bit. Heh, I made that same mistake for a long time. There must be some source of it if both of us made the same error without any rules basis. Zevox
TheMagister 10-21-06, 01:53 AM	Celia vs. Shadowsong is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10400796&postcount=138). Just read some of the above posts and AW CRAP I DID screw up the magic missile damage. That's 5 damage that Foresight didn't take. Let's see what that does...
TheMagister 10-21-06, 01:58 AM	Looking at things, I've decided that all the existence of Foresight would have done is hasten the death of Shadowsong by a few rounds (maybe) as Shadowsong would've swung at the horse and missed a lot and Celia would've hacked at Shadowwalker in the meanwhile. Man, I don't wanna go back in there with a fine-toothed comb, but I will if you make me. TM
McJarvis 10-21-06, 02:13 AM	@Highfire: tactics will go out in the morning, as agreed to on IM.
TheMagister 10-21-06, 02:43 AM	@Erithmu and Papapeperoni - Due to an anonymous tip (Thanks Zelck!) I learned that the bat swarm's bleeding wound ability cannot cause cumulative blood loss. Due to this revelation, Grakkar has TWO more chances to change the fight in his favor. TWO more, I say...and they're MELEE chances. I'll let you guys find out what the result is... ... Just call me the Destroyer of Hope. :evillaugh
Papapeperoni 10-21-06, 05:08 AM	Well, if they really are melee, then you are toast (literally ;)). I already found it strange that Grakkar's breath weapon wasn't used, but I feel a re-run (from that point on) is in order. It seems I get all the bad rolls lately :( @TM: Thanks for being such a good sport. You're the man! :D Greetings, --Papapeperoni
TheMagister 10-21-06, 05:45 AM	Well, if they really are melee, then you are toast (literally ;)). I already found it strange that Grakkar's breath weapon wasn't used, but I feel a re-run (from that point on) is in order. It seems I get all the bad rolls lately :( @TM: Thanks for being such a good sport. You're the man! :D Greetings, --Papapeperoni THE BREATH WEAPON!! I completely forgot about it! I'll edit that in tomorrow, I'm out of time for tonight. Whew, this might be a turning point in the fight. Nothing beats bad rolls like something that can't miss. TM
Erithmu 10-21-06, 08:55 AM	@TM: Shadowong vs Ceilia: I did ask that you stablize Shadowwalker w/ Lay on hands. I would ask for that change at least. Otherwise I have no other issues.
Zevox 10-21-06, 12:43 PM	Celia vs. Shadowsong is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10400796&postcount=138). Just read some of the above posts and AW CRAP I DID screw up the magic missile damage. That's 5 damage that Foresight didn't take. Let's see what that does... No major problems here, since if Foresight survived he could only make a win on Ceilia's part more likely - the only thing is that the gp rewards are off (for an ECL 5 fight rewards are 1500 xp/1600 gp for winner and 500 xp/533 gp for loser). Edit: Wait, one other thing - you forgot free activities. Ceilia made 90 gp from Profession (Tactician), and I'm guessing Shadowsong made 100 gp from his Profession (Avatar) [Erithmu can correct me if I'm wrong, because his title line has already been cleared]. And I actually don't think Ceilia got overly lucky here, unless you count the horse failing its silence save (which isn't hard with its will save). Once that was done Shadowsong either had to come to melee, get off his horse to use the wand and let me come to melee, or use his bow, and without orders to use those True Strike scrolls the latter isn't likely to get him very far. And in melee Ceilia has the distinct advantage - higher AC, much higher hp and attack, and similar damage output - so its actually a testament to how unlucky she was that the fight after that happened was as close as it was. Though you're right that I should have foreseen him using that wand on Foresight. I guess I got lucky that Silence dealt with that. As for using Spiritual Weapon on the horse, thats a good idea in hindsight, but it didn't occur to me while writing my tactics. Actually, now that I think of it, dropping Hold Person for Inflict Moderate Wounds on the horse would be a good idea too. Some things to remember for furture fights against mounted foes I suppose. And thanks again for running that TM! Zevox
hogarth 10-21-06, 03:32 PM	Wisp vs. Zodiac is up now. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10421903#post10421903) A couple of rolls can make a big difference... Please let me know if anyone has any comments or criticisms.
Vathelokai 10-21-06, 05:11 PM	Wisp vs. Zodiac is up now. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10421903#post10421903) A couple of rolls can make a big difference... Please let me know if anyone has any comments or criticisms. Huh. Completely forgot the psicrystal touch attack thing. Also forgot the 40 ft sight thing too. Thanks for the run; waiting on response from opponent. A note: you can make the link to the fight a bit better. Change... url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10421903#post10421903 to post=10421903 becomes Link so you don't have to load the whole thread.
TheMagister 10-21-06, 06:53 PM	@TM: Shadowong vs Ceilia: I did ask that you stablize Shadowwalker w/ Lay on hands. I would ask for that change at least. Otherwise I have no other issues. Drat. And here I was all priding myself for not missing things in tactics. My bad, and I'll stabilize Shadowwalker for you. And include profession income. Edit: Done. TM
Zelck 10-21-06, 07:03 PM	Kervan vs. The Undertaker (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10422900&postcount=146) is up. Guess how the fight goes. Come on. Guess. 5 credits to you if you guess correctly before looking at the dice rolls and the fight, and 1 credit to me if you don't. Please. Do guess. ;) And the winner had NO RIGHT to win. NO RIGHT at all.
TheMagister 10-21-06, 07:15 PM	THE BREATH WEAPON!! I completely forgot about it! I'll edit that in tomorrow, I'm out of time for tonight. Whew, this might be a turning point in the fight. Nothing beats bad rolls like something that can't miss. TM It wasn't enough. Grakkar's had the WORST luck with the dice that I've ever seen, and I thought Sdentch took the cake on that one. 6d8=11 fire damage. ELEVEN. TM
Zelck 10-21-06, 07:30 PM	It wasn't enough. Grakkar's had the WORST luck with the dice that I've ever seen, and I thought Sdentch took the cake on that one. 6d8=11 fire damage. ELEVEN. TM What's going on with the dice today?
MindWandererB 10-21-06, 08:30 PM	Kervan vs. The Undertaker (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10422900&postcount=146) is up. Guess how the fight goes. Come on. Guess. 5 credits to you if you guess correctly before looking at the dice rolls and the fight, and 1 credit to me if you don't. Please. Do guess. ;) And the winner had NO RIGHT to win. NO RIGHT at all. I have one more chance here. I've cast 8 spell levels, I have 3 more, enough for one more Hold Person. If my luck fails me yet again, I accept the loss as ordained by God.
Zelck 10-21-06, 09:00 PM	I have one more chance here. I've cast 8 spell levels, I have 3 more, enough for one more Hold Person. If my luck fails me yet again, I accept the loss as ordained by God. http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php?sid=701#27123 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Un-:censored:-believable!!! Updated. ETA: Oh, odds of hitting 14 or higher on 4 rolls? .015. Congrats on the one-in-a hundred result, Abyssal...
hogarth 10-21-06, 10:17 PM	Kervan vs. The Undertaker (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10422900&postcount=146) is up. For future reference -- Hold Person is a Will save, not a Fort save.
Zevox 10-21-06, 11:08 PM	For future reference -- Hold Person is a Will save, not a Fort save. Strange how some make that mistake - this isn't the first time I've seen it, and its not like the spell's description is ambiguous about it. (Aside: hell, the Undertaker would get his racial bonus vs enchantments to those saves, bringing him to +8 vs hold person, so its no wonder he survived those.) @ Abyssal - Little suggestion, tattoos of synsthete will make blindness no problem for you anymore, when you can spare the expendable space for one or two. @ Zelck - Believe it or not, this isn't the luckiest Abyssal has ever gotten. Take a look at this fight between Abyssal's Jonathan the Raven and Usurpator's Kitaya. Thats a one in a million win, probably literally. Zevox
Zelck 10-22-06, 12:22 AM	@Hirumajoe: Please get tactics to me asap. If they're not here by 3:00 PM EST sunday, I'll assume you've decided to not forfeit the held-over fight and will run a monster fight for Khabil.
Abyssal Stalker 10-22-06, 08:11 AM	Acutally, there are some things in the fight that aren't quite correct. I don't know if they would change the fight so I'm going to be happy with it the way it is. But here goes: Undertaker loses the shocking grasp when using the MM wand, so he'd need to cast another. Succeeding in the saves vs blindness was really surprising, but saving the hold persons isn't that amazing. It should be a will save after all, not a fortitude save and that is UT's best save. And actually my tactics said to use those scorching rays only when I'm blinded, and use MM instead if not blinded. That's because MM is better in that situation, hitting every time. But I'm still OK with the fight as it is, like I said. (Of course :)) But if MWB asks for an edit, then so be it. But IMO it was the blindness saves that decided the whole thing. EDIT: Oops, you were all faster than I. But I really like to point out that passing the will saves isn't really that lucky, just like Zevox pointed out. The Undertaker isn't that bad a character, you know. I actually think that he is quite good. His recors is quite good and those losses show that I have had my share of bad luck, too. @Zevox: LOL, that was funny. Especially Usurpator's comments in the aftermath. :D But I haven't been that lucky all the time, just think about last week. Manzarf was paired against a Black Pudding in the plains. Yippee to my chances in that fight. Or the time when Undertaker was taken down by Krug Butcher in the plains. He shot me from the other end of the map with a 20!...Or at least that shot decided the fight on my part.
Maraxus 10-22-06, 08:34 AM	Tweak vs Durin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10413335&postcount=143) is done. I know there are things you are going to complain. Bring them up. @Zevox: How about the MQ? wow, that one Boar sure had some lucky rolls. I've got some complains: The irrelevant: On the horse I acted really stupid. Sure, the part of my tactic, where I say "Stay out of charging lines and single moves" was specificly under "If the readying-thing does not go". But if there is a boulder right there and I withdraw anyway, I thing this falls under "If you can interpret a tactic 2 ways, both eqally simple but one is dumber then the other, take the good one." ...Well, I see, I have to look at tactics more like a juristical dokument and write them without any room for interprtation. ...But this is a minor thing. If you want to run it this way, it's your pitlord's right. (And changinc movment afterwards is pain, please don't do it, I'm just mentioning it for future fights) Furthermore, I said I wanted to trip Tweak when attacking her. Just mentioning. However, that Tweak! takes 5 animals out of her bag of tricks is against the 1/3 rule. It allready is a loophole, that one can use a 10 times per week item 10 times per day in gladius, but this still means, the limit is 4 per fight. Last one point I'n not 100% sure about, but mostly: The animals just taken from the bag should not attack imeadiatly, instead roll initiative and act on this during the next turn. Oh and commanding an animal to attack is a move action (see handle animal skill and the item's description), but thanging this would have only minor impact on the fight (well, 4 move actions ~ 2 turns for Tweak, seeing how close it was, this minor impact could change the outcome) but would dramatically increase the work, so I leave this to you to change or ignore. Still, this one animal over the limit, I'd like to have changed.
Pitlords 10-22-06, 09:08 AM	Who runs this Mission? ML XXXXX: (none) Loddick Saffrion (Erithmu) and Little Daisy (DSugui) seek to improve guild relations [Week 1]
Abyssal Stalker 10-22-06, 09:20 AM	wow, that one Boar sure had some lucky rolls. I've got some complains: The irrelevant: On the horse I acted really stupid. Sure, the part of my tactic, where I say "Stay out of charging lines and single moves" was specificly under "If the readying-thing does not go". But if there is a boulder right there and I withdraw anyway, I thing this falls under "If you can interpret a tactic 2 ways, both eqally simple but one is dumber then the other, take the good one." ...Well, I see, I have to look at tactics more like a juristical dokument and write them without any room for interprtation. ...But this is a minor thing. If you want to run it this way, it's your pitlord's right. (And changinc movment afterwards is pain, please don't do it, I'm just mentioning it for future fights) Furthermore, I said I wanted to trip Tweak when attacking her. Just mentioning. However, that Tweak! takes 5 animals out of her bag of tricks is against the 1/3 rule. It allready is a loophole, that one can use a 10 times per week item 10 times per day in gladius, but this still means, the limit is 4 per fight. Last one point I'n not 100% sure about, but mostly: The animals just taken from the bag should not attack imeadiatly, instead roll initiative and act on this during the next turn. Oh and commanding an animal to attack is a move action (see handle animal skill and the item's description), but thanging this would have only minor impact on the fight (well, 4 move actions ~ 2 turns for Tweak, seeing how close it was, this minor impact could change the outcome) but would dramatically increase the work, so I leave this to you to change or ignore. Still, this one animal over the limit, I'd like to have changed. First of all, I'm sorry about moving you that way. I realized at some point that I didn't move you the way your tactics said. On the other hand, this gave you better chances to hit them. But I realized this too late. I can go through the rolls and calculate the rolls so that you would've prevented charging. I'm not going to track the movement again, but you get the idea. It definitely isn't your fault, the tactics wewre written correctly, I just didn't read them well enough. On the limit of the bag of holding, I think you are wrong. I seem to remember that there has been conversation about this, but I recall that the outcome was that you can use it 10 times per fight if you wish, because it isn't a x/day item. I even checked the RoG thread for this, but it doesn't mention this. There is one more reason that the bag could be used that often. This was Tweak's last fight and in fight 3 everything can be used. Your third point is something I'm not too sure either. That's just because the rules aren't specific about it. Often summoned creatures (they are basically summoned creatures after all) act right after the caster. So it can be justified that they don't need to roll initiative. This should probably be posted on the elder thread. Furthermore, it was ruled some time by elders that you don't need to roll HA for BoT animals. This is because no other magic item requires a certain skill from it's user. Just like the figurines of wondrous power animal don't need to be handled with the skill. And just guiding someone to attack requires only speech, which is a free action. Commanidng with HA is a move action. I'll try to check the effect on preventing charging, because that might make a difference. On the other hand, I forgot the ferocity of the first boar, so you'd have to hit it once more. I'll have to see to the rolls and estimate the effects. This might take some time, so don't be too hasty.
Papapeperoni 10-22-06, 09:39 AM	Amantar vs Rolf is up! I must've done something wrong. A fight can't end this quickly. What did I do wrong? --Papapeperoni
Maraxus 10-22-06, 09:44 AM	Tweak even has it on her character sheet, that she can use the bag only 4 times a fight! Apart from this it is stupid! If you find an elder ruling that says that it works this way and no elder ruling saying otherwise, I have to accept it, but otherwise, the rules say: "Items and abilities that can be used a given number of times a day" It does not say, that it has to be an item with Uses: X/day. The syntax is free and this prevents such interpretation. An item that can be used 10 times a week can therefor only be used a maximum of 10 times in any of the days of the week. Since the rule, as quoted above does not require the limitation to be formulated in the wording X/day, but any effect, that limity the number of uses counts, this leads to: The bag can only be used 4 times. It sais so in the rules! (With an interpretation that is almost as ugly as the wrong interpretation, but there it is) It sais so on my opponent's character sheet!! It sais so in the mind of anyone using common sense!!! PS: And about "Often summoned creatures (they are basically summoned creatures after all) act right after the caster." Usually, summoning a creature takes a full round action, so they are not basicly summoned creatures. And I don't say, my opponent should make a skill check ... well, basicly I don't care for that move actions, and if the ruling is that you don't need to make a skill check (right, I've read that, too), one could interpret that it does not need a move action to command it, even if the item refers to the handle animal-trick, that say you do. Still, they are not summoned chreatures like from a summon nature's ally spell, so there is no need to think, they would act on the masters turn. ...But that limit on 4 animals is far more important. :)
Zevox 10-22-06, 09:53 AM	@ Abyssal - Maraxus is correct that the bag can only be used 4/fight under the 1/3 rule. @ Maraxus - However, in this case, as Abyssal also pointed out, Tweak is on the third and last fight of her cycle, so she can use any all things she has not yet used - meaning all five of her remaining bag animals are available here. Zevox
Maraxus 10-22-06, 10:16 AM	wait, does this mean, if I had a sorcerer and would not use any spells in fight 1 and 2, he could blast out anything and everything in fight 3??? *check* Damn, it does. Wow, I must have totally missed this point of the rules. Okay, I accept my loose. Bad luck, a boar rolling 3, 17, 3, 20, 19, 7, 14, 19, 20, 17 and me letting it live so long.
Vathelokai 10-22-06, 11:11 AM	wait, does this mean, if I had a sorcerer and would not use any spells in fight 1 and 2, he could blast out anything and everything in fight 3??? *check* Damn, it does. Wow, I must have totally missed this point of the rules. Okay, I accept my loose. Bad luck, a boar rolling 3, 17, 3, 20, 19, 7, 14, 19, 20, 17 and me letting it live so long. Yes, it was all luck for me. I was rather suprised. Sorry you felt cheated by the animals. I thought I had labeled it more clearly, but I see now that I didn't.
Vathelokai 10-22-06, 11:11 AM	Amantar vs Rolf is up! I must've done something wrong. A fight can't end this quickly. What did I do wrong? --Papapeperoni Nothing wrong that I saw. It's rare, but sometimes the pitlords get lucky.
Zelck 10-22-06, 12:04 PM	Acutally, there are some things in the fight that aren't quite correct. I don't know if they would change the fight so I'm going to be happy with it the way it is. But here goes: Undertaker loses the shocking grasp when using the MM wand, so he'd need to cast another. Succeeding in the saves vs blindness was really surprising, but saving the hold persons isn't that amazing. It should be a will save after all, not a fortitude save and that is UT's best save. And actually my tactics said to use those scorching rays only when I'm blinded, and use MM instead if not blinded. That's because MM is better in that situation, hitting every time. But I'm still OK with the fight as it is, like I said. (Of course :)) But if MWB asks for an edit, then so be it. But IMO it was the blindness saves that decided the whole thing. I can't believe I got the save wrong for Hold Person again :(. On Holding the Charge, it says you lose it if you cast another spell. Does activating a spell trigger item count? Hmm... My gut says that's not casting, but I could be wrong. The reason I didn't use MMs is because you identified that Shield spell in place. Scorching Rays might not always hit, but it's better than burning wand charges into a Shield spell. EDIT: Oops, you were all faster than I. But I really like to point out that passing the will saves isn't really that lucky, just like Zevox pointed out. The Undertaker isn't that bad a character, you know. I actually think that he is quite good. His recors is quite good and those losses show that I have had my share of bad luck, too. Right, I know :). But wow... that's some lucky saves! :)
TheMagister 10-22-06, 02:09 PM	I agree that triggering a wand does not count as casting another spell for the purposes of causing a previously cast touch spell to dissipate.
NiQil 10-22-06, 04:10 PM	Amantar vs Rolf is up! I must've done something wrong. A fight can't end this quickly. What did I do wrong? --Papapeperoni Nothing wrong that I can see...all the high rolls gave me no chance here. You do, however, need to put in the required fight summary template and include our free activities.
TheMagister 10-22-06, 05:54 PM	{Sigh} No sign of either of my fights, either here or in the CoCo Roller. What is it with me and my fights being held over lately?
NiQil 10-22-06, 06:05 PM	{Sigh} No sign of either of my fights, either here or in the CoCo Roller. What is it with me and my fights being held over lately? Well, this week, blame the fact that the boards were down from late Friday night until early this morning. I'm sure that ruined lots of opportunities for people to run battles yesterday.
McJarvis 10-22-06, 10:53 PM	Ihdald (Milov) vs. Kilpquabjeg (hogarth) : [Sewer] (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10428102&postcount=150) is up, results in the morning.
Gonbow 10-22-06, 11:44 PM	@Erithmu Any news on Jade's fight? It was vs Augustus' character.
Highfire 10-23-06, 02:40 AM	I'm in need of help in a serious way. I need someone to take Iced vs. Mcjarvis int he arena, ECL3, I can PM tactics. The bank screwed up and I have to be out of the house a lot tomorrow and will not have time to sort the fight out like I thought tomorrow. I am sorry, but it's either this or I lose the power, and I can't post the fight anyway. Thanks in advance to whoever takes this... Also to my pitlord(Whoever you are) I haven't even checked the fight listing as I've been so busy this week. If you've run on the default tactics, thanks. If you haven't run yet feel free to forfeit. ~Justin
Hirumajoe 10-23-06, 08:12 AM	@Highfire: I'm your pitlord for Kyst. I'll take a look at your default tactics and try running with that tonight. If it looks like your default tactics will only get you killed with wasted materials, I'll have you forfeit. @Zelck: Just double checking that you did get my Tactics for Valen Sky? @All: Just to make it more widely known, Valen Sky surrenders to Osiris in the Forest, if only to save allies so I know what I have when fighting Khabil on the plains. What happens if Jerrick_QueKiri doesn't check in anytime soon to update that surrender, like before the Tuesday deadline? Does it still get held over? Thanks, Hirumajoe
hogarth 10-23-06, 08:51 AM	@Maraxus, Abyssal Stalker, Stormwind: I had planned on finishing the Noko/Manzarf/Varjo fight on Sunday, but there was a lengthy power outage in my area. I have a little time this evening to run some more, but you may have to wait until Tuesday evening for the full thing.
Erithmu 10-23-06, 09:43 AM	@Erithmu Any news on Jade's fight? It was vs Augustus' character. Running after I get back from class this morning/afternoon. Had a very FULL weekend of beach football.
Zelck 10-23-06, 10:16 AM	@Zelck: Just double checking that you did get my Tactics for Valen Sky? Yup, about to start the fight.
Abyssal Stalker 10-23-06, 10:37 AM	@Maraxus, Abyssal Stalker, Stormwind: I had planned on finishing the Noko/Manzarf/Varjo fight on Sunday, but there was a lengthy power outage in my area. I have a little time this evening to run some more, but you may have to wait until Tuesday evening for the full thing. No problem, just make sure our team wins! :D
TelinArtho 10-23-06, 12:21 PM	So, from this post - I see that Lonewolf will be unable to complete the fight between Sunstroke and Sir Valkin. Is anyone up for taking on the fight?
Zelck 10-23-06, 12:31 PM	Khabil vs. Valen (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10436087&postcount=153) is up. Boring start, really exciting finish! What're the odds of rolling four natural 20's in a row? @Traevanon and Hirumajoe: Please cut some unnecessary info/blank lines from your sheets.
Abyssal Stalker 10-23-06, 12:38 PM	1:160000. You ASKED. :)
hogarth 10-23-06, 12:40 PM	1:160000. You ASKED. :) Uh-oh -- now we're gonna get McJarvis jumping in here with a load of malarkey about Markov chains... :P
McJarvis 10-23-06, 12:48 PM	malarkey about Markov chains... :P not a fan of linear algebra? ;) Hum....on a more philisophical note, a doctor for my father once said that everything essentially has a 100% chance of happening, since it happens. :-) This was in response to another doctor being wrong about my father having no chance for survival(bad car accident)... Obviously these are the sort of statistics CoCo is concerned with. ;) edit- as far as the question is concerned: the odds for rolling exactly four 20's in a roll in the middle of a fight are 19/20*1/20*1/20*1/20*1/20*19/20, or 361/64,000,000 The odds of rolling 4 20's independantly of the rest of the fight are merely 1/160,000 ;) The odds of an entire fight from round 1 without knowing the outcomes of any of the dice rolls & knowing both gladiators & their tactics perfectly would require my custom history-preserving markov chains. :-) It would likely be a calcuation so complex that you'd need a brand new computer for it though...along with Matlab or some similar matrix software...
Hirumajoe 10-23-06, 12:51 PM	Khabil vs. Valen (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10436087&postcount=153) is up. Boring start, really exciting finish! What're the odds of rolling four natural 20's in a row? @Traevanon and Hirumajoe: Please cut some unnecessary info/blank lines from your sheets. I'll work on cleaning up my sheet for Wednesday. And thanks for the run. And yes, 4 natural 20s in a row is *impressive*. But given Valen's luck in the last battle against Khabil, he was due. :-) However, there are a few errors that I can see, which I hate to be reporting, but I'll do it anyways. I'm not asking for a rerun, or corrections or anything (especially since Valen won) but mainly incase Khabil's player does. 1) Since it looks like Lightning was only making move actions, Valen doesn't need to make concentration checks, since he technically manifests before or after Lightning stops moving. This is covered in Rules of the Game, All about Mounts (part 3), Casting Spells: Cast a Spell: You can cast a spell with a casting time of one standard action or less normally if your mount makes a single move. You can cast the spell either before or after your mount moves, and the rules assume your mount is stationary when you cast. Thus, he should have his +2 to damage buff, Offensive Prescience. (He doesn't actually have Defensive Precognition.) 2) Khabil is not proficient with the longbow. He should be at -4 to hit. 3) Valen's manifester level is only 2, thus he can only manifest Vigor for 2PP (10 hp) at one time. However, this doesn't prevent him from manifesting for 1PP later on. Again, thanks for running the fight.
Abyssal Stalker 10-23-06, 12:58 PM	Hum....on a more philisophical note, a doctor for my father once said that everything essentially has a 100% chance of happening, since it happens. :-) Nah, the chances are always 50/50. This goes for everything. It happens or it doesn't happen. (the official way to make math teachers mad)
McJarvis 10-23-06, 01:01 PM	Nah, the chances are always 50/50. This goes for everything. It happens or it doesn't happen. (the official way to make math teachers mad) Assuming that happening and not happening have equal chances. However, history tells us that everything that has happened has a 100% chance of still-having-happened in the future. Until we invent time travel. Then the paradoxes will kill us all.
Zelck 10-23-06, 01:03 PM	Hum....on a more philisophical note, a doctor for my father once said that everything essentially has a 100% chance of happening, since it happens. :-) This was in response to another doctor being wrong about my father having no chance for survival(bad car accident)... Well, the probability of anything that already happened is 1. However, the probability of things that haven't happened yet doesn't have to be 1. as far as the question is concerned: the odds for rolling exactly four 20's in a roll in the middle of a fight are 19/20*1/20*1/20*1/20*1/20*19/20, or 361/64,000,000 For that particular arrangement. If you want 4 20's in 6 rolls, you have to do the 6 choose 4 thing too. The odds of an entire fight from round 1 without knowing the outcomes of any of the dice rolls & knowing both gladiators & their tactics perfectly would require my custom history-preserving markov chains. :-) It would likely be a calcuation so complex that you'd need a brand new computer for it though...along with Matlab or some similar matrix software... Yea... probably wouldn't need a supercomputer though.
Hirumajoe 10-23-06, 01:04 PM	You do realize this conversation is making a physicist cry, right? :weep: Quantum mechanics right out the window... :D
McJarvis 10-23-06, 01:06 PM	For that particular arrangement. If you want 4 20's in 6 rolls, you have to do the 6 choose 4 thing too. But we're looking for exactly 4 20's in a row. Since that excludes five 20's in a row or more, we need a string of 6 rolls where the two outside rolls are not-20 and the inside 4 are 20. I took into account it being order-dependant :) 6 choose 4 would be for order independance.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 01:06 PM	Quantum mechanics right out the window... :D "God doesn't play dice"? ;)
Zelck 10-23-06, 01:13 PM	But we're looking for exactly 4 20's in a row. Since that excludes five 20's in a row or more, we need a string of 6 rolls where the two outside rolls are not-20 and the inside 4 are 20. I took into account it being order-dependant :) 6 choose 4 would be for order independance. Ah, you're right. Forgot about that. "God doesn't play dice"? Einstein ate his words :P.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 01:16 PM	Einstein ate his words :P. I'm still betting on the invisible unicorns arbitrarily making decisions for individual processes on the quantim level happening, and thus we just think it's all randomness... You can't prove there aren't invisible unicorns, after all. ;)
Zelck 10-23-06, 01:17 PM	I'm still betting on the invisible unicorns arbitrarily making decisions for individual processes on the quantim level happening, and thus we just think it's all randomness... You can't prove there aren't invisible unicorns, after all. ;) She's PINK, infidel. Invisible PINK unicorn. ;) ;) :P (This is a joke, guys. I'm not attacking or insulting him, if you didn't figure that out by the smilies and the content.)
McJarvis 10-23-06, 01:19 PM	She's PINK, infidel. Invisible PINK unicorn. ;) ;) :P (This is a joke, guys. I'm not attacking or insulting him, if you didn't figure that out by the smilies and the content.) I'm fairly certain that once anyone starts arguing for or against the existance of invisible unicorns the conversation has turned into a joke :-)
TheMagister 10-23-06, 01:27 PM	I'm fairly certain that once anyone starts arguing for or against the existance of invisible unicorns the conversation has turned into a joke :-) ...or a Fantasy Role-Playing Game message board. One of the two.
Erithmu 10-23-06, 05:18 PM	Jade vs Brutus is up. Off to do homework.
Traevanon 10-23-06, 05:43 PM	Hiruma is right about Khabil not being proficient in the bow, its my first fight with it, and I missed that particular detail sorry. So I keep plugging away, shooting at the horse until its down (or not) and the result stays the same. Congrats Valen
hogarth 10-23-06, 05:51 PM	McJarvis -- with regards to the Reginald Molehusband vs. Fnorri fight, I'd like to point out that other pitlords have ruled that a Large-sized creature can fit on the ledge around the statue by squeezing (I'm thinking of this fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9478336)). Your mileage may vary, of course.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 05:57 PM	McJarvis -- with regards to the Reginald Molehusband vs. Fnorri fight, I'd like to point out that other pitlords have ruled that a Large-sized creature can fit on the ledge around the statue by squeezing (I'm thinking of this fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9478336)). Your mileage may vary, of course. You just won- so unless you want to save more expendibles.... Fight is Done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10435552&postcount=152). It really came down to the wire. I think the horse thing has been judged both ways in the past: an elder ruling would be good for everyone, I think. Rewards will be posted when I'm done with my third fight.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 06:40 PM	Ok- all my fights are done now. I'll post 3FC stuff after I take a little break here..I've been doing CoCo all day and need some me time.(and job-searching time)
Gonbow 10-23-06, 07:15 PM	Jade vs Brutus is up. Off to do homework. Rofl. Would have killed em if he wasn't a barbarian, lucky sods! Re: middle vs outer; it's pretty hard to spot someone in the middle if they are all the way in on one of the sides, which is what I was going for, guess I just got a bit unlucky that he happened to stop at a point where I had no cover.
NiQil 10-23-06, 08:55 PM	So Jerrick_QueKiri seems to have disappeared on us...there was a post several days ago saying that he was having internet problems and nothing since. With that in mind, is anyone willing to take the Atalan vs Tessero Valis fight? I can forward tactics, and I'm sure TheMagister will be along shortly and can do the same. Should be a fairly easy fight to run, if someone is so inclined...
hogarth 10-23-06, 09:57 PM	You just won- so unless you want to save more expendibles.... Fight is Done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10435552&postcount=152). It really came down to the wire. I think the horse thing has been judged both ways in the past: an elder ruling would be good for everyone, I think. I don't have any problem with leaving it up to the pitlord to decide. I just wanted to point out that there was precedent before you ruled it out completely. Like you said -- it ended up not mattering.
Zevox 10-23-06, 10:41 PM	@ TM - Looking at the tactics for Istima vs Hood, looks like we managed to predict each other. Maxed out vigor and animal affinity (dex) was what I was thinking you'd need to do here - ergo the brief buffing on Istima (thank you small arena and fast horse!). Guess its up to the dice then :) (and whos readied action gets off first). Though, can you do that with the arrow and dissolving weapon :confused: ? I thought the current ruling was that was a no-no for ranged weapons in general for some reason... Zevox
NiQil 10-23-06, 10:52 PM	@ TM - Looking at the tactics for Istima vs Hood, looks like we managed to predict each other. Maxed out vigor and animal affinity (dex) was what I was thinking you'd need to do here - ergo the brief buffing on Istima (thank you small arena and fast horse!). Guess its up to the dice then :) (and whos readied action gets off first). Though, can you do that with the arrow and dissolving weapon :confused: ? I thought the current ruling was that was a no-no for ranged weapons in general for some reason... Zevox As listed in Hood's tactics, the use of dissolving weapon is perfectly legal. Manifesting the power on an arrow is fine, but manifesting it on the bow will not transfer the power to the arrows, since the power does not state that it transfers to ammunition as other weapon enchantments do. Q: Can the psionic power Dissolving Weapon be used in conjunction with a ranged attack from a bow, crossbow or sling? A: No. Unless specifically stated to do so, spells and powers cast on the launcher (bow, crossbow or sling) do not transfer to ammunition.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 11:55 PM	Looks like both my characters are gonna do 20+ round fights this week...and Mort's fight is getting held over. Sigh. Regardless- rewards are posted for all of my fights.
c00lz3 10-24-06, 12:06 AM	Wisp vs. Zodiac is up now. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10421903#post10421903) A couple of rolls can make a big difference... Please let me know if anyone has any comments or criticisms. no comments.............................. ........................................ ......... .......................really I dont have any.
Zevox 10-24-06, 12:11 AM	As listed in Hood's tactics, the use of dissolving weapon is perfectly legal. Manifesting the power on an arrow is fine, but manifesting it on the bow will not transfer the power to the arrows, since the power does not state that it transfers to ammunition as other weapon enchantments do. Meh, damn semantics. Would've probably tossed in energy adaptation (acid) to the buffs had I known that. Oh well - I guess file that one under "to be used later", in case I ever play another psychic warrior. Zevox
Hirumajoe 10-24-06, 01:05 AM	Carandol vs Kyst is up here.
Iced 10-24-06, 02:01 AM	Hello all, This is being sent to all affected parties. Caterane responded with the following when asked about my options: - You can fight both and add two fight weeks to your 3FC - You could surrender one match - You can fight Osiris and Khabil gets a monster fight although that's a bit late now. Whatever you choose, please inform all participants, incl me. While I would like to fight both, I don't want to force one of the fights to be re-run due to unpredictable item usage or ally loss in the other. If Jerrick_QueKiri doesn't have time to get the Osiris/Valen fight up before 2:00 pm EST on Sunday 22nd, I will surrender to Osiris. Jerrick_QueKiri, if you get this before that time and know you won't be able to finish by then, please let myself, Zelck and Traevanon know. I will be sending tactics to Zelck after this PM (probably take me 30 minutes to write) assuming I have full access to my allies and the normal 3 PP. If the Osiris/Valen fight is up by 2:00pm, I'll send slightly modified tactics then if necessary. However I'm guessing that you'll just be able to run it as is, since 8 hours from now isn't all that much time. For the Khabil/Valen fight, my prebuffs are exactly as listed (bring my light warhorse and psicrystal, be psionically focused and activate self propulsion on the psicrystal). Thank you. This is for linking purposes only... Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10377241&postcount=129)
hogarth 10-24-06, 07:00 AM	Carandol vs Kyst is up here. Hirumajoe, Ettiquette_Gnome: Forgery doesn't work the way it used to (no reducing the CA of allies). E.G. -- you'll probably want to change your character in the "Character Changes of Gladius" thread.
TheMagister 10-24-06, 07:21 AM	Round 08 Hood regains focus! -- Concentration 1d20+12= 22, regain focus Istima drawing his crossbow rides to negate hoods cover and fires a crossbow shot at him! -- Shot 1d20+7= 23, Damage: 3 Man, I'm sorry I only obliquely mentioned this in the tactics, - regain focus and ready an action again (same trigger), using the second acid arrow if it exists. but Hood has the Psionic Meditation feat. He refocuses as a move action, allowing a readied action to disrupt hostile powers every round. I think there are also some quick errors: Whole fight: +1 to all saves from Defensive Precognition. Paired with the statue cover, that's a +10 to reflex saves (this is NOT fight affecting). I think you confused Offensive Precognition with Offensive Prescience (understandable). Hood should be at a +13 to hit and deal 1d8+3 damage (+1 w/PBS). Round 5: His readied shot in this round connects, and he's owed +2d6 damage and should force a Concentration check from Istima. Round 6: Hood refocuses as a move action and should get a readied action shot vs. the entangling ectoplasm (ohpleezeohpleeze). Round 8: Hood owed a readied action and should get +1/+1 via PBS and should move to gain cover. And that's what I've got. Hood's got a good chance of saving himself a Vigor stone! Yay! TM
False_Keraptis 10-24-06, 07:41 AM	Chosen One v. Maya Redwine is up. By Moradin's beard, what a quagmire! If any changes need to be made, I might not be able to get them in before the Tuesday night deadline, but I can definitely do them before the pairings on Wednesday. Please, please let there be no changes. :tantrum:
Hirumajoe 10-24-06, 08:04 AM	Hirumajoe, Ettiquette_Gnome: Forgery doesn't work the way it used to (no reducing the CA of allies). E.G. -- you'll probably want to change your character in the "Character Changes of Gladius" thread. Oh, right, completely forgot about that change. Fixed now. Thanks for the reminder.
hogarth 10-24-06, 08:41 AM	Looks like both my characters are gonna do 20+ round fights this week...and Mort's fight is getting held over. Sigh. Regardless- rewards are posted for all of my fights. McJarvis, with regards to Reginald Molehusband -- he qualifies for the "Political Career" free activity which raises his rewards by 29% so his rewards should be 1248 xp/gp (1200 * (1 + 0.29 - 0.25)). Sorry I didn't list it in his title line, but Cat added that qualifier later and I didn't notice it.
False_Keraptis 10-24-06, 08:46 AM	McJarvis -- with regards to the Reginald Molehusband vs. Fnorri fight, I'd like to point out that other pitlords have ruled that a Large-sized creature can fit on the ledge around the statue by squeezing (I'm thinking of this fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9478336)). Your mileage may vary, of course. Regarding this: a large creature can definitely squeeze into a single space (although it suffers penalties). I would just argue that a trained horse is an animal after all, and it's not going to jump over lava onto a space that's too small for it.
hogarth 10-24-06, 08:54 AM	Regarding this: a large creature can definitely squeeze into a single space (although it suffers penalties). I would just argue that a trained horse is an animal after all, and it's not going to jump over lava onto a space that's too small for it. For the record, I agree it's iffy at best. But if it's a CoCo ruling, Reg would love to abuse it -- that's his raison d'être, after all!
Zevox 10-24-06, 09:22 AM	@ Macbrea - On big comment on the Istima vs Hood fight: Hood does not have a vigor powerstone! Hes stuck with the 15 hp he has left. Zevox
McJarvis 10-24-06, 11:02 AM	Chosen One v. Maya Redwine is up. By Moradin's beard, what a quagmire! If any changes need to be made, I might not be able to get them in before the Tuesday night deadline, but I can definitely do them before the pairings on Wednesday. Please, please let there be no changes. :tantrum: I don't see any problems...other than Chosen's utter lack of an adequate backup plan! :) @Hogarth: Molehusband's rewards fixed.
hogarth 10-24-06, 11:09 AM	Chosen One v. Maya Redwine is up. By Moradin's beard, what a quagmire! If any changes need to be made, I might not be able to get them in before the Tuesday night deadline, but I can definitely do them before the pairings on Wednesday. Please, please let there be no changes. :tantrum: I don't think it makes a big difference, but as long as someone has cover, they can hide. The "1' per rank" is how far a character can go _without_ cover and still be hidden.
TheMagister 10-24-06, 11:27 AM	@ Macbrea - On big comment on the Istima vs Hood fight: Hood does not have a vigor powerstone! Hes stuck with the 15 hp he has left. Zevox Oh, good catch! Didn't see that. TM
Etiquette_Gnome 10-24-06, 11:53 AM	Well then, I wish someone told me earlier about them removing Forgery's ally use...now I have to reduce my character down a level...*sobs*
MindWandererB 10-24-06, 01:26 PM	Chosen One v. Maya Redwine is up. By Moradin's beard, what a quagmire! If any changes need to be made, I might not be able to get them in before the Tuesday night deadline, but I can definitely do them before the pairings on Wednesday. Please, please let there be no changes. :tantrum: A few comments: Riding for cover is done reactively. Since she's not being attacked, there's no reason for Maya to make this check in round 2. However, Chosen only benefits from his 25 AC on a successful Ride check, so there could potentially be a few more hits in there. However: The critical fumble thing is a house rule. Chosen should not be dropping his crossbow at any time. That would speed his win a bit. As for cover: You can hide if the cover you're behind is no more than 30 feet away from you, no matter how many ranks you have. The ranks=feet rule is for moving into a space where you have no cover (or concealment). Edit: Since these things pretty much cancel out, no edit is necessary.
hogarth 10-24-06, 01:34 PM	As for cover: You can hide if the cover you're behind is no more than 30 feet away from you, no matter how many ranks you have. The ranks=feet rule is for moving into a space where you have no cover (or concealment). Where do you get the number "30 feet" from? It doesn't mention 30 feet in the SRD entry for the Hide skill. It just says "you need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check". EDIT: Maybe you're thinking of a "low obstacle" (which only provides cover if you're within 30 feet of it).
MindWandererB 10-24-06, 01:51 PM	Where do you get the number "30 feet" from? It doesn't mention 30 feet in the SRD entry for the Hide skill. It just says "you need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check". EDIT: Maybe you're thinking of a "low obstacle" (which only provides cover if you're within 30 feet of it). You're right, I thought that applied to cover of all kinds, not just low cover. Since you need cover to hide, you have to be within 30 feet of a low obstacle. But I guess you can hide any distance behind a tall obstacle.
TheMagister 10-24-06, 02:34 PM	Forgive me, but doesn't a "tall obstacle" kinda break LOS, making Hide checks unnecessary?
TheMagister 10-24-06, 02:44 PM	Hood (23,29) 23/34 HP 0/3 PP 23(+4 cover) AC: Animal Affinity +4 dex (32), Defensive Precog +1 (23), Offensive precog +2 (34), Entanged(11) - Bob (21,19) 17/17 HP 18 AC: Hide [23] MS [20] Istima (21,21) -3/29 HP 3/13 PP 24 AC: Force screen (21) - Ingole (Same) 22/22 HP 18 AC: - Nole (Same) 14/14 HP 18 AC: Monsieur Hood wins. BOOya! It's so NICE when the dice cooperate with good tactics! :ayyyy!: Good fight, Z! :cool: TM
MindWandererB 10-24-06, 02:52 PM	Forgive me, but doesn't a "tall obstacle" kinda break LOS, making Hide checks unnecessary? Only if it completely blocks LOS. It provides cover if only 1-3 lines from the corners are blocked.
Pitlords 10-24-06, 03:45 PM	@Macbrea: How did you get these rewards? M.Hood wins. Gain +1,625 xp, 1,733 gp Istima loses. Gain: +1,375 xp, +1,467 gp
False_Keraptis 10-24-06, 06:29 PM	Riding for cover is done reactively. Since she's not being attacked, there's no reason for Maya to make this check in round 2. Yeah, I was definitely doing the ride-for-cover wrong here. However, Chosen only benefits from his 25 AC on a successful Ride check, so there could potentially be a few more hits in there. I think I'm actually right on this one; I usually parked Chosen's horse behind some cover so that he'd always get a cover bonus to AC rather than only a little over half the time. The "Big Creatures and Cover" thing about using the single worst square to determine cover actually only applies in melee by my reading; at range, it's very easy for them to find cover. There were one or two rounds when Maya had a shot at him without cover, but I'm pretty sure she missed anyway then; I may have failed to record this correctly because there was a lot of cut-and-paste going on. Edit: Well, in rounds 7 and 24, Chosen has no cover; I gave him AC 21 in round 24 and AC 25 in round 7, but didn't make a ride check for him in either one. Fortunately for me, given Maya's attack rolls in these rounds, nothing would change.
MindWandererB 10-24-06, 06:34 PM	I think I'm actually right on this one; I usually parked Chosen's horse behind some cover so that he'd always get a cover bonus to AC rather than only a little over half the time. The "Big Creatures and Cover" thing about using the single worst square to determine cover actually only applies in melee by my reading; at range, it's very easy for them to find cover. There were one or two rounds when Maya had a shot at him without cover, but I'm pretty sure she missed anyway then; I may have failed to record this correctly because there was a lot of cut-and-paste going on.Ah, you're probably right. Maya didn't have a whole lot of options in the way of negating cover.
Macbrea 10-24-06, 06:57 PM	@Macbrea: How did you get these rewards? M.Hood wins. Gain +1,625 xp, 1,733 gp Istima loses. Gain: +1,375 xp, +1,467 gp Ooops, forgot to divide by 3 first sorry... Should have been: 1500 * 1.0833 = 1625 1600 * 1.0833 = 1733 and 1500/3 * (1-.0833) = ~458 1600/3 * (1-.0833) = ~489 M.Hood wins. Gain +1,625 xp, 1,733 gp Istima loses. Gain: +458 xp, +489 gp
Hirumajoe 10-24-06, 08:31 PM	So given that Jerrick_QueKiri hasn't been on lately, anyone want to take over the Osiris vs. Valen Sky [ECL 4] fight? Its really easy. Valen Surrenders. The original setup can be found here and the 3 rounds which actually got run are here.
hogarth 10-24-06, 08:58 PM	Varjo and Manzarf vs. Noko is up here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10451764&postcount=162) Harken to the spine-tingling fight between the Undetectable Force and the Intangible Object (and a Dwarf)!
NiQil 10-24-06, 09:05 PM	So Jerrick_QueKiri seems to have disappeared on us...there was a post several days ago saying that he was having internet problems and nothing since. With that in mind, is anyone willing to take the Atalan vs Tessero Valis fight? I can forward tactics, and I'm sure TheMagister will be along shortly and can do the same. Should be a fairly easy fight to run, if someone is so inclined... bumpity bump bump
Zevox 10-24-06, 10:38 PM	@ Macbrea - There is one rather significant problem with Istima vs Hood: My tactics asked to use my powerstone to put up another vigor if my hp dropped to 18 or less. The round before Hood's readied action drops Istima he is at 16 hp, but doesn't do this. And since Vigor isn't an offensive action, his shot won't go off for doing that (personally I'm also not quite sure "any offensive action" is a valid trigger for readying, since its rather vague, but its your call there). With that +10 hp, Istima survives the shot when it does go off, though he'll lose the ectoplasm almost surely. Gives him the chance to keep on fighting, and since Hood wanted to start focusing on his horse after he stopped manifesting powers (and his next readied shot before he learns that Istima isn't manifesting anymore misses if the current rolls are kept), he could quite possibly bring Hood down. If you have time, I'd love it if this could be edited in. Istima levels up if he wins here, but doesn't if not, and I'd rather the former than the latter. If not though I won't ask for it to be held over - nothing is worth that. Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 10-25-06, 01:31 AM	Varjo and Manzarf vs. Noko is up here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10451764&postcount=162) Harken to the spine-tingling fight between the Undetectable Force and the Intangible Object (and a Dwarf)! Boring. Thanks for running the fight. Is there anyone here who finds invisible and hiding archers "interesting character concepts"? Am I the only one who finds them just boring? I mean, come on, is this an interesting fight to run or read? OK, enough ranting. Congratulations to the opponent. A strong build you got there!
False_Keraptis 10-25-06, 01:46 AM	Boring. Thanks for running the fight. Is there anyone here who finds invisible and hiding archers "interesting character concepts"? I know what you mean; they're not to my taste either. But some people really seem to dig them.
Stormwind 10-25-06, 02:40 AM	Varjo and Manzarf vs. Noko is up here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10451764&postcount=162) Harken to the spine-tingling fight between the Undetectable Force and the Intangible Object (and a Dwarf)! I am sorry, but I am very dissapointed in the way this fight was run. Varjo's tactics were not followed, specifically: - to always move underground - and to make Manzarf a Shadow if he became unconcious. The pitlord made one major improvisation (Varjo runs aboveground after something that she cannot catch while getting shot full of arrows) which benefited only one party (Noko) and no improvisation was made in the other direction (to benefit Manzarf and Varjo). I do not even have time to check the fight for errors before pairings due to the late posting of this fight and a busy work schedule today. Thus my apologies to Maraxus and Abyssal, but for the first time since I joined the CoCo I am going to request that this fight be held over. Storm
Abyssal Stalker 10-25-06, 02:54 AM	I am sorry, but I am very dissapointed in the way this fight was run. Varjo's tactics were not followed, specifically: - to always move underground - and to make Manzarf a Shadow if he became unconcious. The pitlord made one major improvisation (Varjo runs aboveground after something that she cannot catch while getting shot full of arrows) which benefited only one party (Noko) and no improvisation was made in the other direction (to benefit Manzarf and Varjo). I do not even have time to check the fight for errors before pairings due to the late posting of this fight and a busy work schedule today. Thus my apologies to Maraxus and Abyssal, but for the first time since I joined the CoCo I am going to request that this fight be held over. Storm I have no problem with the fight being held over. I have no rush with Manzarf, I'm just slowly advancing him towards the higher leagues (if he would even once get paired with a "regular" opponent in an arena that doesn't give all the advantages to the other side. It starts to get boring to fight black puddings and stuff in the plains...:) I still believe in him, he just gets paired with the wrong opponents.)
Etiquette_Gnome 10-25-06, 04:08 AM	I know what you mean; they're not to my taste either. But some people really seem to dig them. There's a certain style to them, much like snipers and ninjas, the idea of a killer you never see before it is too late is evocative. It is natural to fear the unknown, and latching onto this image turns the tables of this fear. This is empowering and enlightening, removing oneself from fear through embracing it.
TheMagister 10-25-06, 06:58 AM	@ Macbrea - There is one rather significant problem with Istima vs Hood: My tactics asked to use my powerstone to put up another vigor if my hp dropped to 18 or less. The round before Hood's readied action drops Istima he is at 16 hp, but doesn't do this. And since Vigor isn't an offensive action, his shot won't go off for doing that (personally I'm also not quite sure "any offensive action" is a valid trigger for readying, since its rather vague, but its your call there). With that +10 hp, Istima survives the shot when it does go off, though he'll lose the ectoplasm almost surely. Gives him the chance to keep on fighting, and since Hood wanted to start focusing on his horse after he stopped manifesting powers (and his next readied shot before he learns that Istima isn't manifesting anymore misses if the current rolls are kept), he could quite possibly bring Hood down. If you have time, I'd love it if this could be edited in. Istima levels up if he wins here, but doesn't if not, and I'd rather the former than the latter. If not though I won't ask for it to be held over - nothing is worth that. Zevox The "any offensive action" trigger really should read "any action at all" since (Zevox has a point) Hood can't really tell what's gonna come outta Powerstone X when Istima starts manifesting from it. Still, I didn't write it that way, and I won't complain if Macbrea doesn't run it that way. TM
hogarth 10-25-06, 07:00 AM	Stormwind, I knew you would be unsatisfied. Could you please answer me one thing: If you stay in the ground at all times, how can you hurt Noko when she can just stay out of your reach? I couldn't figure out any way for you to win against a flying invisible archer who's faster than you other than waiting for her 80 arrows to run out and forcing her into melee, and that smells like delaying cheese to me. Even so, if you just consider that Varjo's head pops up once every 9 rounds, Noko still hits her no-Dex AC about 85% of the time (instead of 95%); if you insist on having Noko spend some more arrows, I'll do so, but what's the point? If you can come up with a reasonable winning strategy (using no ranged weapons), please tell me what it is. I can run this fight 100 times if necessary, but I don't see how the result will change. What improvisation would you have made for Varjo? Did you want me to have Noko walk around on the ground? I am sorry, but I am very dissapointed in the way this fight was run. Varjo's tactics were not followed, specifically: - to always move underground - and to make Manzarf a Shadow if he became unconcious. The pitlord made one major improvisation (Varjo runs aboveground after something that she cannot catch while getting shot full of arrows) which benefited only one party (Noko) and no improvisation was made in the other direction (to benefit Manzarf and Varjo). I do not even have time to check the fight for errors before pairings due to the late posting of this fight and a busy work schedule today. Thus my apologies to Maraxus and Abyssal, but for the first time since I joined the CoCo I am going to request that this fight be held over. Storm
Macbrea 10-25-06, 08:16 AM	The "any offensive action" trigger really should read "any action at all" since (Zevox has a point) Hood can't really tell what's gonna come outta Powerstone X when Istima starts manifesting from it. Still, I didn't write it that way, and I won't complain if Macbrea doesn't run it that way. TM Since, he cannot tell if the power is going to be offensive or defensive in nature I assumed all actions where hostile and fired. I changed it to pull out the powerstone of vigor instead and have that shot fired. The allowing of a readied action on a hostile action probably shouldn't have been allowed. I should have requested that be reduced down to manifesting a power. Obviously, from the tactics the purpose was to stop manifesting.
Zevox 10-25-06, 08:25 AM	The "any offensive action" trigger really should read "any action at all" since (Zevox has a point) Hood can't really tell what's gonna come outta Powerstone X when Istima starts manifesting from it. Still, I didn't write it that way, and I won't complain if Macbrea doesn't run it that way. TM Readying with a trigger of an opponent taking any action at all has been ruled in the past to not be specific enough for the CoCo house rule about readying - that one's definitely not specific, just a catch-all trigger. Anyway, I suppose I can't complain if Macbrea switched it to readying on manifesting. I suppose next time we meet I'll just have Istima suppress his displays constantly, so you can never tell when hes going to manifest :P . (Heh, hes got a high enough concentration check to pull it off.) Zevox
False_Keraptis 10-25-06, 09:03 AM	There's a certain style to them, much like snipers and ninjas, the idea of a killer you never see before it is too late is evocative. It is natural to fear the unknown, and latching onto this image turns the tables of this fear. This is empowering and enlightening, removing oneself from fear through embracing it. Oooh... Good answer.
TheMagister 10-25-06, 09:06 AM	Readying with a trigger of an opponent taking any action at all has been ruled in the past to not be specific enough for the CoCo house rule about readying - that one's definitely not specific, just a catch-all trigger. Anyway, I suppose I can't complain if Macbrea switched it to readying on manifesting. I suppose next time we meet I'll just have Istima suppress his displays constantly, so you can never tell when hes going to manifest :P . (Heh, hes got a high enough concentration check to pull it off.) Zevox Suppressing displays won't stop AoOs, so it shouldn't stop readied actions. I seem to remember a mention of "a faraway look in the manifester's eyes" or something like that giving away the act of manifesting; I don't see how it would be any different for a readied action (correct me if I'm wrong, but back it up with a reference). The "ready on manifesting" would be a good trigger, and would have satisfied the intent of my tactics. A secondary intent of my tactics was to take away the +4 cover bonus to AC from Ride, so next time I'll include a second ready condition "after she stops manifesting, change the ready trigger to "if she shoots at me with her crossbow". Um, Istima is a "she", right? Or does he have the "boy named Sue" thing going? TM
Maraxus 10-25-06, 09:55 AM	I am sorry, but I am very dissapointed in the way this fight was run. Varjo's tactics were not followed, specifically: - to always move underground - and to make Manzarf a Shadow if he became unconcious. The pitlord made one major improvisation (Varjo runs aboveground after something that she cannot catch while getting shot full of arrows) which benefited only one party (Noko) and no improvisation was made in the other direction (to benefit Manzarf and Varjo). I do not even have time to check the fight for errors before pairings due to the late posting of this fight and a busy work schedule today. Thus my apologies to Maraxus and Abyssal, but for the first time since I joined the CoCo I am going to request that this fight be held over. Storm Okay, I agree with you, that you should have stood underground to the point where only the head lurks out, giving you constant cover. But this is the only point that would change and seeing my lucky rolls vs. Manzarf, I don't think, this will have me run out of arrows. Does anyone mind, if I update my sheet? I won't spend the XP/gold, I would loose, if this fight turned out the other way.
hogarth 10-25-06, 10:06 AM	Okay, I agree with you, that you should have stood underground to the point where only the head lurks out, giving you constant cover. But this is the only point that would change and seeing my lucky rolls vs. Manzarf, I don't think, this will have me run out of arrows. Does anyone mind, if I update my sheet? I won't spend the XP/gold, I would loose, if this fight turned out the other way. No, if Stormwind has asked for the fight to be held over, then you can't change your character sheet.
Maraxus 10-25-06, 10:21 AM	Whoops - well, you have my sheet in the fights post, so no cheating possible. Do you think, you can fix it soon, because it could be difficult for me to be online untill close to deadline.
hogarth 10-25-06, 10:36 AM	Whoops - well, you have my sheet in the fights post, so no cheating possible. Do you think, you can fix it soon, because it could be difficult for me to be online untill close to deadline. As far as I know, until all parties (i.e. Stormwind) are satisfied with the revised version of the fight it'll continue to be held over. Which means that Noko may not get into this week's pairings. Again, I apologize for the delayed fight. In retrospect I should have scheduled more time to run the fight, but I didn't anticipate a power outage in my apartment building.
Zevox 10-25-06, 11:07 AM	Suppressing displays won't stop AoOs, so it shouldn't stop readied actions. I seem to remember a mention of "a faraway look in the manifester's eyes" or something like that giving away the act of manifesting; I don't see how it would be any different for a readied action (correct me if I'm wrong, but back it up with a reference). Huh - I'll have to look that up later. Um, Istima is a "she", right? Or does he have the "boy named Sue" thing going? Hes male (just look on his character sheet right below his name - "Male Goblin"). His name is Elvish - Tolkien's Quenya word for "learned", to be precise (his background mentions why his name is what it is, if you're interested). I've never understood why so many think it sounds feminine (Vath and lonewolf have both made that mistake, and a few pitlords as well) - though then again I've been known to mistake Erithmu's Sola for female because that name sounds feminine to me, so maybe its just a matter of different people percieving things differently. Zevox
Gonbow 10-25-06, 12:11 PM	Regarding burrowing vs flying invisible... IMHO, the answer would be pitlord fiat to force them both out of hiding/reach, especially if both have tactics that prevent them from coming into contact with each-other that are iron-clad. (If one of them is willing to give up their protection to go offensive, not needed, but it doesn't sound like they are) Forcing one person to change their tactics for ease of completion is, imho, the wrong way to go about it. Both are trying very hard to make themselves unattackable. That said, such a drastic measure (like say, dropping a force cage around a very small part of the arena that contains both of them before, something that has precident) should probably only happen several turns into the fight rather than at the beginning, which puts the non-hidey person at a disadvantage while the other two kill him.
MindWandererB 10-25-06, 12:24 PM	There's a certain style to them, much like snipers and ninjas, the idea of a killer you never see before it is too late is evocative. It is natural to fear the unknown, and latching onto this image turns the tables of this fear. This is empowering and enlightening, removing oneself from fear through embracing it. I was going to go with the "nyah, nyah, nyah nyah, nyah, you can't catch me" thing, myself--that's why I like stealth builds. I get a glorious thrill when I see that there's not a bloody thing my opponent can do do me. But the creepy thing works, too.
Abyssal Stalker 10-25-06, 12:25 PM	As far as I know, until all parties (i.e. Stormwind) are satisfied with the revised version of the fight it'll continue to be held over. Which means that Noko may not get into this week's pairings. Again, I apologize for the delayed fight. In retrospect I should have scheduled more time to run the fight, but I didn't anticipate a power outage in my apartment building. Actually, it is your call. The pitlord has the last say if a fight is held over. (of course, Cat has his veto) If you think that there is no need for an edit, or that it wouldn't change the fight drastically, you are within your rights to declare the fight ready the way it is now. This is for the sake of every pitlords sanity.
hogarth 10-25-06, 12:32 PM	Actually, it is your call. The pitlord has the last say if a fight is held over. (of course, Cat has his veto) If you think that there is no need for an edit, or that it wouldn't change the fight drastically, you are within your rights to declare the fight ready the way it is now. This is for the sake of every pitlords sanity. Is that true? I had assumed that a player was supposed to send an e-mail to Cat requesting a hold-over and then the onus was on the pitlord to show that everyone had given up their objections. If what you say is right, I'll put in a few more arrow shots (to reflect the fact that Varjo always has cover), mention that Varjo turned Manzarf into a shadow, and then call it a day.
Etiquette_Gnome 10-25-06, 12:32 PM	There's empowerment in being able to attack without consequence as well. I am a bit biased, as my most recent character concept is working under the fear angle for his stealth tactics.
TheMagister 10-25-06, 12:35 PM	Regarding burrowing vs flying invisible... IMHO, the answer would be pitlord fiat to force them both out of hiding/reach, especially if both have tactics that prevent them from coming into contact with each-other that are iron-clad. (If one of them is willing to give up their protection to go offensive, not needed, but it doesn't sound like they are) Forcing one person to change their tactics for ease of completion is, imho, the wrong way to go about it. Both are trying very hard to make themselves unattackable. That said, such a drastic measure (like say, dropping a force cage around a very small part of the arena that contains both of them before, something that has precident) should probably only happen several turns into the fight rather than at the beginning, which puts the non-hidey person at a disadvantage while the other two kill him. Idea: what about something like a force-effect box that equals the size of the arena (borders the exterior [but not interior] walls, floors, max height limitations) coupled with a detect magic effect on all involved parties? This would prevent an incorporeal being from hiding and moving in the exterior walls and floor but would still allow them to merge with interior walls and formations (like statues, pillars, or natural rock formations). It would also allow invisible characters to be detected by aura-sight, but not pinpointed unless they stayed still for more than 3-4 rounds (a-la detect magic spell description). That way the Mrs. Invisible would still have a miss chance for being invisible and would maintain the advantage of her opponent not knowing where she is. Mr. Incoporeal would be able to take advantage of cover in statues and interior walls but wouldn't have infinite mobility coupled with invulnerability. Mr. Incoporeal would also have the detect magic to help him narrow down Mrs. Invisibility's general location. Any other ideas?
Abyssal Stalker 10-25-06, 12:43 PM	Is that true? I had assumed that a player was supposed to send an e-mail to Cat requesting a hold-over and then the onus was on the pitlord to show that everyone had given up their objections. If what you say is right, I'll put in a few more arrow shots (to reflect the fact that Varjo always has cover), mention that Varjo turned Manzarf into a shadow, and then call it a day. This is how things have been handled as long as I've been here. It is still the same unless it has been changed in great secrecy. The player has to ask for the pitlord to send the e-mail to Cat. Only in obvious cases it is enough when the player sends an e-mail to Cat (like when the pitlord is absent for some reason and can't do that herself). If you think that you have been true to both sides involved in the fight and that the reported errors are not errors at all or are so minor that they can be ignored, then you can say that the fight stays the way it is.
hogarth 10-25-06, 12:50 PM	I added +4 to Varjo's AC for cover, and I mentioned that she changed Manzarf into a shadow spawn. It changed nothing. Maraxus/Abyssal Stalker, as far as I'm concerned, you can edit your characters now. Stormwind, I know you'll still be unhappy with the result, but I have made my decision about the fight. This is how things have been handled as long as I've been here. It is still the same unless it has been changed in great secrecy. The player has to ask for the pitlord to send the e-mail to Cat. Only in obvious cases it is enough when the player sends an e-mail to Cat (like when the pitlord is absent for some reason and can't do that herself). If you think that you have been true to both sides involved in the fight and that the reported errors are not errors at all or are so minor that they can be ignored, then you can say that the fight stays the way it is.
Abyssal Stalker 10-25-06, 02:44 PM	I added +4 to Varjo's AC for cover, and I mentioned that she changed Manzarf into a shadow spawn. It changed nothing. Maraxus/Abyssal Stalker, as far as I'm concerned, you can edit your characters now. Stormwind, I know you'll still be unhappy with the result, but I have made my decision about the fight. You still might want to PM Cat that the fight is done in case he hasn't noticed it's done. It's marked as "late" at the moment.
hogarth 10-25-06, 02:58 PM	You still might want to PM Cat that the fight is done in case he hasn't noticed it's done. It's marked as "late" at the moment. I've sent a PM now.
Stormwind 10-25-06, 03:57 PM	Stormwind, I knew you would be unsatisfied. Could you please answer me one thing: If you stay in the ground at all times, how can you hurt Noko when she can just stay out of your reach? I couldn't figure out any way for you to win against a flying invisible archer who's faster than you other than waiting for her 80 arrows to run out and forcing her into melee, and that smells like delaying cheese to me. Even so, if you just consider that Varjo's head pops up once every 9 rounds, Noko still hits her no-Dex AC about 85% of the time (instead of 95%); if you insist on having Noko spend some more arrows, I'll do so, but what's the point? If you can come up with a reasonable winning strategy (using no ranged weapons), please tell me what it is. I can run this fight 100 times if necessary, but I don't see how the result will change. What improvisation would you have made for Varjo? Did you want me to have Noko walk around on the ground? @hogarth: I was very reluctant to answer your post as the tone of it comes across as incredibly condescending and I do not want this to become personal. Thus I first apologize if my use of the english language is insufficient. However, you did ask a reasonable question, that being how Varjo could possibly win? I do not care if Varjo(and Manzarf) wins or loses. I do care about the manner in which they lost. It seemed to me that the fight had been decided before the first dice was rolled and that the rolls were just to justify the decision. This was due to the fact that all improvisations made during the fight were in Noko's favour. Note that I am not saying that this is what happened, but that this was simply the impression that I got when reading the fight. In short it did not feel like a fair fight. I would have been satisfied with anything that followed my tactics, including any of the following: Varjo makes Manzarf a Shadow as per tactics, then Varjo, Lyhyt and Shadow-manzarf spread out underground as per tactics to try and locate Noko. Then all three move upwards to circle Noko so that one of us can move and attack the following turn (minor improvisation). Varjo makes Manzarf a Shadow as per tactics, then Varjo, Lyhyt and Shadow-manzarf stick heads out of the ground to allow Noko to interact with them (minor improvisation). When Noko shoots, all of the shadows should be able to know the general location from where she shot (see below). Then all shadows run to within 30ft of Noko trying to surround her (minor improvisation). Then move and attack if possible or else return underground. Continue this until Noko runs out of arrows. Note 1: An invisible attacker can be (generally) located when they attack. Arrows become visible once fired. If an invisible creature strikes a character, the character struck still knows the location of the creature that struck him (until, of course, the invisible creature moves). The only exception is if the invisible creature has a reach greater than 5 feet. In this case, the struck character knows the general location of the creature but has not pinpointed the exact location. Note 2: In this case Noko cannot differentiate between the three shadows as only the shadows heads are out of the ground. Noko has to shoot at the correct shadow (33%), bypass concealment for being in the ground (20% miss chance), bypass incorporeal miss chance (50% miss chance), and finally hit Varjo (AC19: 20 -6 dex +1 dodge +4 cover) or hit one of the other two (AC17: 13 -1 dex +1 dodge +4 cover). Varjo makes Manzarf a Shadow as per tactics, then Varjo, Lyhyt and Shadow-manzarf stick heads out of the ground to allow Noko to interact with them (minor improvisation). All shadows then go fully defensive (minor improvisation). Continue this until Noko runs out of arrows. Then when Noko has nothing left to shoot do not accept her surrender and kill her. Note: Fully defensive is not subject to the delay penalty since getting shot at is interaction. I can think of several other options but they are based on knowledge of Noko's tactics and thus are inappropriate. My problems with the fight are specifically as follows: three improvisations were made, all completely in Noko's benefit: - Noko's tactics never mention running and in fact mention moving into 30ft range several times, yet Noko runs away from Varjo to avoid melee. - Varjo moves out of her preferred environment to fight on Noko's terms with no benefit to team-Varjo, while Noko gets to fight completely on her terms in her preferred environment at her preferred range. - Marzarf stands up from kneeling in round 8 losing his +6 to AC (+2 kneeling, +4 cover) for no perceiveable benefit to him, but significant benefit to Noko. At least the following mistakes were made in the fight: - In round 7 with a -26 distance penalty Varjo doesn't get a roll to hear the sound of a battle (DC0). Since she has +13 to her listen check (11+2 within solid), she does have a chance. - From round 14 onwards, Manzarf is supposedly kneeling but does not recieve the +2AC. - Varjo's dodge bonus to AC was never counted even though this was specifically mentioned in her tactics - While within the ground Varjo has a +2 to listen for being within a solid object. If Varjo (or one of the other Shadows) is adjacent to Noko, even while moving, then they can detect her presense due to their incorporeal nature and thus pinpoint her. This does not seem to have been considered. ------------------- Edit: @hogarth: Even with the edit there are still mistakes in the fight. for example you have not rolled for concealment miss chance or the fact that Noko cannot identify which shadow she is shooting at if she can only see their heads. Lastly I apologize for the lateness of my reply, but due to the fact that I have only just gotten back from work, I have not been able to post sooner than this. Storm
hogarth 10-25-06, 04:22 PM	Stormwind, I didn't mean to offend you with what I said. I honestly tried to think of a way for Varjo and her shadows to logically be able to attack Noko, but I couldn't think of a way other than having Noko fly low to the ground. I could have had her do that (since Maraxus's tactics were vague enough to allow it), but that seemed dumb to me; if she could always keep out of reach, why wouldn't she? ------------------- Edit: @hogarth: Even with the edit there are still mistakes in the fight. for example you have not rolled for concealment miss chance or the fact that Noko cannot identify which shadow she is shooting at if she can only see their heads. 1) Why would Varjo have concealment? I think she would only have cover (+4 AC) from being partially underground, not concealment. 2) I thought about being able to tell one shadow from another and I decided that disguising yourself as an ally would specifically require the use of the Disguise skill -- you can't disguise yourself as an ally "for free". That's just my personal ruling, though. 3) I'm sorry I missed the dodge bonus from the Dodge feat. That would have cost Noko a few more arrows.
Stormwind 10-25-06, 04:32 PM	To determine whether your target has concealment from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that provides concealment, the target has concealment. Since a solid object provides concealment and all the lower corners of Varjo's square are underground, the ground is thus the border that provides concealment.
Macbrea 10-25-06, 04:34 PM	I should note turning another combatant into a shadow spawn has the following effect in the Arena. 1) Quote SRD: A creature reduced to Strength 0 by a shadow dies. 2) The city of Gladius has a special feature: every person that dies within the arena dome as well as some parts of the city and its vincinity is automatically True Resurrected for free, due to a special unique link to the plane of Ysgard, called the “Nimbus”. All fights end, for a combatant when they die. Therefore, making a shadowspawn isn't a valid option in the arena.
Stormwind 10-25-06, 04:41 PM	I didn't mean to offend you with what I said. I honestly tried to think of a way for Varjo and her shadows to logically be able to attack Noko, but I couldn't think of a way other than having Noko fly low to the ground. I could have had her do that (since Maraxus's tactics were vague enough to allow it), but that seemed dumb to me; if she could always keep out of reach, why wouldn't she? I would ask why you had Varjo act dumb but had Noko act smart? Especially since I tried to be as exact as I could with Varjo's tactics, and Noko's tactics were vague (as you said). I reiterate the fact that you had Noko run. Since her tactics specifically mentioned a desire to shoot from within point blank shot range, having her run is a major improvisation in her favour. Since Varjo can run 160ft and even at the highest point that you mention Noko flying at is only 100ft, Varjo and the Shadows can surround Noko if they detect her (which they can do if she shoots). Thus if Noko uses flyby attack and moves (as per her tactics), team-shadow ought to be able to get at least one member into melee range and attack.
hogarth 10-25-06, 04:41 PM	If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that provides concealment, the target has concealment. Since a solid object provides concealment and all the lower corners of Varjo's square are underground, the ground is thus the border that provides concealment. The ground is not a "square or border that provides concealment", it's a "square or border that provides cover". The ground physically stops arrows, it doesn't merely hide Varjo's body.
Stormwind 10-25-06, 04:43 PM	I should note turning another combatant into a shadow spawn has the following effect in the Arena. 1) Quote SRD: A creature reduced to Strength 0 by a shadow dies. 2) The city of Gladius has a special feature: every person that dies within the arena dome as well as some parts of the city and its vincinity is automatically True Resurrected for free, due to a special unique link to the plane of Ysgard, called the “Nimbus”. All fights end, for a combatant when they die. Therefore, making a shadowspawn isn't a valid option in the arena. It has been ruled in the Ask an Elder thread that if a Shadow creates a spawn in the arena then they have the use of this spawn until the end of the fight. Thus in a multi-player fight Shadows can gain more allies for the duration of the fight only.
Stormwind 10-25-06, 04:48 PM	The ground is not a "square or border that provides concealment", it's a "square or border that provides cover". The ground physically stops arrows, it doesn't merely hide Varjo's body. The ground is a border that provide cover and concealment. It hides varjo's body (concealment) and physically stops arrows (cover). I believe this is mentioned in the rules of the game articles 'There, Not There (part 3 or 4)'
hogarth 10-25-06, 04:50 PM	I would ask why you had Varjo act dumb but had Noko act smart? Especially since I tried to be as exact as I could with Varjo's tactics, and Noko's tactics were vague (as you said). Like I said, I tried to think of something clever for Varjo to do, but I couldn't come up with anything. Since Varjo can run 160ft and even at the highest point that you mention Noko flying at is only 100ft, Varjo and the Shadows can surround Noko if they detect her (which they can do if she shoots). Thus if Noko uses flyby attack and moves (as per her tactics), team-shadow ought to be able to get at least one member into melee range and attack. Here we have the real difficulty. My opinion is that using superior speed to run away from a mob of enemies is common sense, but you think that it's unfair improvisation. I'm not going to change my mind on this point, I'm afraid.
MindWandererB 10-25-06, 04:52 PM	The ground is a border that provide cover and concealment. It hides varjo's body (concealment) and physically stops arrows (cover). I believe this is mentioned in the rules of the game articles 'There, Not There (part 3 or 4)' I just re-read the article to which you are referring (part 4), and nope. Cover only.
Stormwind 10-25-06, 05:02 PM	I just re-read the article to which you are referring (part 4), and nope. Cover only. Hmmm ... well it seems that my memory was faulty on where I saw this. Being fully within the ground grants total cover and total concealment. So if being partially within the ground does not give concealment, only cover, then what does give concealment? I am tired of arguing this. It is midnight and I am going to bed. I would hope for a rerun, but it seems that this will not happen. Do whatever you want.
MindWandererB 10-25-06, 05:23 PM	Being fully within the ground grants total cover and total concealment. So if being partially within the ground does not give concealment, only cover, then what does give concealment?Can you find a source for that? There's seldom a reason to grant total concealment when you already have total cover. Concealment is granted by visual obscurement of the entire body (and total concealment is total invisibility). A creature standing halfway in a darkness effect (or even blacklight) doesn't have concealment as long as one square of them is completely visible. A creature standing halfway inside a solid object does have cover, though.
Zelck 10-25-06, 11:53 PM	Idea: what about something like a force-effect box that equals the size of the arena (borders the exterior [but not interior] walls, floors, max height limitations) coupled with a detect magic effect on all involved parties? This would prevent an incorporeal being from hiding and moving in the exterior walls and floor but would still allow them to merge with interior walls and formations (like statues, pillars, or natural rock formations). It would also allow invisible characters to be detected by aura-sight, but not pinpointed unless they stayed still for more than 3-4 rounds (a-la detect magic spell description). That way the Mrs. Invisible would still have a miss chance for being invisible and would maintain the advantage of her opponent not knowing where she is. Mr. Incoporeal would be able to take advantage of cover in statues and interior walls but wouldn't have infinite mobility coupled with invulnerability. Mr. Incoporeal would also have the detect magic to help him narrow down Mrs. Invisibility's general location. Any other ideas? I don't like the Detect Magic idea, but if we go with the walls of force idea, we should allow incorporeal creatures to go halfway into the ground/walls/ceilings so it's not as big a nerf.
Maraxus 10-26-06, 04:35 AM	Idea: what about something like a force-effect box that equals the size of the arena (borders the exterior [but not interior] walls, floors, max height limitations) coupled with a detect magic effect on all involved parties? This would prevent an incorporeal being from hiding and moving in the exterior walls and floor but would still allow them to merge with interior walls and formations (like statues, pillars, or natural rock formations). It would also allow invisible characters to be detected by aura-sight, but not pinpointed unless they stayed still for more than 3-4 rounds (a-la detect magic spell description). That way the Mrs. Invisible would still have a miss chance for being invisible and would maintain the advantage of her opponent not knowing where she is. Mr. Incoporeal would be able to take advantage of cover in statues and interior walls but wouldn't have infinite mobility coupled with invulnerability. Mr. Incoporeal would also have the detect magic to help him narrow down Mrs. Invisibility's general location. Any other ideas? Actually, I think, this would not have been to unreasonable for this two combatants. Okay, I actually had the dwarf to shoot at, to avoid a delay penalty, but in a duel, this could have been a measure. What I would not like is my pixie seeking the opponent flying and invisible for 10 rounds, not finding the opponent, and then we both are caged into a little room and maybe the invisiblity is even outlined with something. Hiding (or melting into the ground) should not be a measure to totally dispel an opponents flying and invisibility. ...However, in another setup then this fight, this might be totally diffrent, that's why no general rule is useful. Well, not all improvisations were necessary to my favor. - As it turned out, it was, but killing the dwarf first was definitly not the plan (not only to avoid more shadows, primarry as a delay-negater (just attack every "less then 10" rounds once), and to save arrows at that point (maybe a rampaging shadow-ally does it for me). But generally I have no problem with improvising, if it looks reasonable (hey, I should include that in any tactic) Btw, since the fight is run anyway: Where does it say, that the fireing of a bow allows a DC0 listen check to pinpoint the shooter, or did I understand that wrong?
TheMagister 10-26-06, 07:28 AM	The "slap of a bowstring is DC 0" thing is up for debate in the Council thread. *I* think it's crap, but I'm not an elder. No, I don't want to debate it. =/ TM