| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| NiQil10-19-05, 04:03 PM | Just under an hour left to update characters. Good luck, have fun, and be nice :) |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-19-05, 04:53 PM | Four minutes to go, and no sign of our illustrious Pitlord. :( -ToK |
| Mind Rogue10-19-05, 04:58 PM | Hickory Dickory Dock, The mouse ran up the clock, The clock struck nine, And now we find, The mouse ran down the clock with all of your character sheets. I think this week's rhyme is a little better than last weeks. Time's up, so stop editing, please. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-19-05, 05:00 PM | Hickory Dickory Dock, The mouse ran up the clock, The clock struck nine, And now we find, The mouse ran down the clock with all of your character sheets. I think this week's rhyme is a little better than last weeks. Time's up, so stop editing, please. Good start, but the finish is a bit unpolished, if ya know what I mean. :P |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-19-05, 06:10 PM | I have a suggestion... Amantar (NiQil) Kermadec (NiQil) Kira Trefenwyd (NiQil) Rue Meridian (NiQil) Ryer Ord Star (NiQil) Shirl Ravenlock (NiQil) Axhind (NiQil) Keltsat (NiQil) ...NiQil vs the remainder of L3 active characters. LOL -ToK |
| NiQil10-19-05, 06:15 PM | I have a suggestion... Amantar (NiQil) Kermadec (NiQil) Kira Trefenwyd (NiQil) Rue Meridian (NiQil) Ryer Ord Star (NiQil) Shirl Ravenlock (NiQil) Axhind (NiQil) Keltsat (NiQil) ...NiQil vs the remainder of L3 active characters. LOL -ToK LOL touche. Although that would probably outnumber me at about a 4-1 ratio....would just have to use swarm tactics like goblins and kobolds and take em down one by one. Incidently, Kermadec is gunning for Kelek's spot as top assassin....though it's gonna take a super long time to make that happen, eventually you are gonna hafta bring him outta mothballs so I can have a shot at him LOL |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-19-05, 06:36 PM | LOL touche. Although that would probably outnumber me at about a 4-1 ratio....would just have to use swarm tactics like goblins and kobolds and take em down one by one. Incidently, Kermadec is gunning for Kelek's spot as top assassin....though it's gonna take a super long time to make that happen, eventually you are gonna hafta bring him outta mothballs so I can have a shot at him LOL Hmmm...i don't see any UMD there. Not sure how you'll challenge him. Kelek has +31 initiative so, i go first, you die. I'm extremely confident that had i not left abruptly he would have been the first to 20th. I just got tired of people whining about my cheesy tactics and crafty cunning nature. Of course, i take it all as a compliment, but nontheless it still left a sour taste. Easily defeating uber-characters and embarassing them, put me heavily under the gun by others to "nerf my tactics", and some of those nerf rules are currently in effect. If you're thinking about your barb levels denying me my sneak attacks, think again. I don't need them. A certain minotaur character can vouch for that. :D Plus he has a 10th level cohort wizard. Good luck though, i look forward to the challenge. -ToK |
| Sindorin10-19-05, 06:42 PM | Not that I have any changes to my characters this week (they are campaigning or questing) but in terms of Pitlords, Caterane did say that he was going to be gone until around the 28th... |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-19-05, 06:43 PM | EMERGENCY! It's 6:45 EST, and no Pitlords in sight ~?!~ -ToK |
| NiQil10-19-05, 06:45 PM | Hmmm...i don't see any UMD there. Not sure how you'll challenge him. Kelek has +31 initiative so, i go first, you die. I'm extremely confident that had i not left abruptly he would have been the first to 20th. I just got tired of people whining about my cheesy tactics and crafty cunning nature. Of course, i take it all as a compliment, but nontheless it still left a sour taste. Easily defeating uber-characters and embarassing them, put me heavily under the gun by others to "nerf my tactics", and some of those nerf rules are currently in effect. If you're thinking about your barb levels denying me my sneak attacks, think again. I don't need them. A certain minotaur character can vouch for that. :D Plus he has a 10th level cohort wizard. Good luck though, i look forward to the challenge. -ToK No...no UMD yet...need the skill points to qualify for Assassin first...but I'll get them. And no....the barb levels were for the speed advantage and the early access to uncanny dodge so that I could maybe take a few levels in ranger or fighter for some extra feats down the road and not have to take extra rogue levels if I don't need them. And I was already toying with the idea of picking up a monk cohort at some point specifically to counter casters and their area affect spells. But in all honesty, really all I am doing is setting a goal for the character to have something to strive for. Most likely, you are correct in that you would wipe the floor with me. But it gives me something to aim for. :) |
| Snommelp10-19-05, 06:46 PM | Sin's right, Cat did mention being rather busy. Do we have a back-up GM? |
| NiQil10-19-05, 06:46 PM | EMERGENCY! It's 6:45 EST, and no Pitlords in sight ~?!~ -ToK I refresh the page quite frequently, and I have seen the Pitlords account pop on and off for the last hour or so. I wonder if Cat is having internet problems? |
| One_Winged_Angel10-19-05, 07:04 PM | I refresh the page quite frequently, and I have seen the Pitlords account pop on and off for the last hour or so. I wonder if Cat is having internet problems? He sent me a PM not too long ago. He's around. Likely doing rolls. |
| SoulLord10-19-05, 07:14 PM | Yep actually if you check the characters of gladius thread you can see some characters getting ready [OK] to fight! |
| Pitlords10-19-05, 07:53 PM | Pairings (almost) done. Except for 2 fights who have no Pitlords: Tan, Son of Sty (Book5) vs Haizan (King Uther): x Vivi (Dr.Funk) vs Amantar (NiQil): x Any Takers? @Tok: :rolleyes: |
| Snommelp10-19-05, 08:06 PM | Sure, I'll take one. ECL 3 fights aren't bad. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-19-05, 08:07 PM | Pairings (almost) done. Except for 2 fights who have no Pitlords: Tan, Son of Sty (Book5) vs Haizan (King Uther): x Vivi (Dr.Funk) vs Amantar (NiQil): x Any Takers? @Tok: :rolleyes: Ya, i'll take 'em. **EDIT Since snommelp will take one, i'll take the Vivi vs Amantar fight. -ToK :D |
| Pitlords10-19-05, 08:31 PM | As announced last week, from this week on, not only Questlords, but also the players receive negative credits for late Quests. A Quest with an unupdated questlog is considered incomplete. Credit Changes: +8: King +7: Huan, Tellish +4: Vathelokai +3: Book5, Kaigan +2: Caterane, NiQil, Telin, +1: Begferdeth, Maraxus, Mindrogue, NBG, Snommelp, Undershadow, LLMadCow +0: Gonbow, Soullord, Usurpator -1: Emrys, Sindorin, Magister, Cerebus -2: Luni -3: Iced Credits for Pitlords: +5: Tellish +3: King, Luni, Telin +2: Book5, Emrys, Huan, NiQil, Snommelp +1: Begferdeth, Gonbow, Maraxus, Mindrogue, NBG, Soullord, Undershadow, Usurpator Credits for Questlords: +6: King +4: Telin, Vath +2: Sindorin Credits for Campaignlords: +6: Huan +3: King, Tellish, Iced, Kaigan Credits for Questers: -1: Emrys, Huan, Luni, Soullord, Tellish, Usurpator, Sindorin, Iced, Magister, Cerebus -2: Telin Credits for Active PCs: -1: Emrys, Gonbow, Mindrogue, Snommelp, Usurpator -2: Tellish, Sindorin -3: King, Telin -4: Luni Special Credits: +2: Caterane (GM), Tellish (Maps) +1: Book5 (Map), Usurpator (Map), LLMadCow (Prisonlord) -1: Emrys (late Quest), King (late Quest) -5: Iced (alignment change) |
| Snommelp10-19-05, 08:31 PM | Well, would you look at that... I'm running one of my foes from last week. The one that pounded my character into submission... oh, the power!! ...just kidding. I'll be fair, as always. EDIT: All three sets of tactics have been sent. None have been received. |
| Sindorin10-19-05, 08:38 PM | Um... Va'ria crafted her amulet of health a week or more ago... I forgot to change her title. You'll note though that the date was not this week. She shouldn't be doing anything at all this week. I should only have 3 active characters... |
| NiQil10-19-05, 09:08 PM | @ ToK Tactics for Amantar sent via PM @ Book5 Tactics for Kermadec sent via PM |
| Snommelp10-19-05, 09:25 PM | Addendum to Grik's tactics sent. Let this clash of titans begin! The Avatar of Life shall be smote by a mere mortal, an orc whose rage and strength know no bounds! EDIT: Tactics for Alexi received. |
| Luni10-19-05, 09:27 PM | @ToK: Tactics sent for Shakari. Should be a simple fight. |
| Mind Rogue10-19-05, 09:28 PM | @Snommelp Tactics sent for Alexi @ Ravashack I've PMed you with a query about your character before I formulate my tactics. Somehow, Pirious is a level 4 character in the level 3 block with only 5,600 Xp. |
| TelinArtho10-19-05, 09:30 PM | @Tellish - lay it on me - what are the derro carrying today? |
| TheMagister10-19-05, 09:47 PM | @Niqil - Tactics for Torgirr sent via PM. @TelinArtho - 'sup! TM |
| Sunwolf10-19-05, 09:55 PM | @Tok So how well is that eyrine going to be prepared? :eek: :) |
| Ravashack10-20-05, 12:13 AM | Hmmm, I had a brain fart. I think I looked at that and read it as 6500 for some reason. Lemme undo the level up. Unless that's not all right? It's mostly to minimize potential mistakes the Pitlord du jour may make staring at character sheets. =X |
| One_Winged_Angel10-20-05, 12:30 AM | Tactics for Wraith and Kailia sent. Please conferm. @Cat: Either you or fate is really mad at me for some reason. Those pairings are not much fun, but it made for a stimulating thought process. |
| The Undershadow10-20-05, 01:18 AM | @ one_winged_dragon Tactics Received |
| Gonbow10-20-05, 01:22 AM | The Gauth is a CR 6 monster, so as per 127, it gets 5,600 gold to spend. It doesn't have a telekinesis ability like a true beholder, so what it can reasonably put on/off is a bit problematic, so I'm going to 'cop out' and give it a Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone. (+1 AC) Now to type in all it's stats because it's not in the SRD. *mutters* |
| One_Winged_Angel10-20-05, 01:46 AM | @ one_winged_dragon Tactics Received ...Angel. Dragons breath fire and eat maidens. Angels are those winged things that say "fear not!" whenever they see someone. Thanks for the confermation though! :) |
| The Undershadow10-20-05, 01:54 AM | Haha Eh close enough, they both fly, and not all dragons eat maidens. |
| Pittbull10-20-05, 03:29 AM | @Luni: Tactics for Hagrid vs Uhme have been sent. |
| Pitlords10-20-05, 03:55 AM | @Sindorin: Credit payed back. |
| Maraxus10-20-05, 05:35 AM | My opponent, Ashhûr Demonslayer is labled "not ready" on his sheet. I will asume, I fight him nevertheless, untill I read else. |
| Caterane10-20-05, 07:13 AM | My opponent, Ashhûr Demonslayer is labled "not ready" on his sheet. I will asume, I fight him nevertheless, untill I read else. @Luni: "Not ready for Oct. 19. Use Craft Masonary for 76 gp." can easily be confused with ready, especially since I have to check 100 PCs quickly. You can also only use Free Activities in conjunction with a fight which adds to the confusion. Please leave the headline blank if you are not ready. Anyway, do you want that fight? PS: Tactics sent. |
| Pitlords10-20-05, 07:27 AM | Usurpator +1° for the Arena Weekly. Thanks a lot! |
| Maraxus10-20-05, 08:21 AM | I'm still not sure, how I should bring down 49 hit points. Somehow I have the image in my mind, of a little kobold unleashing a magic lightshow on a laughing dwarf, who that goes and smacks the poor little, exausted kobold. Zassl sais: Deep dwarfs are traditional suppressors of kobolds, too, I swear. Evil dwarfs. ;) @my gladis: Tactics received, will run the fight soon. |
| Maraxus10-20-05, 08:43 AM | The Gauth is a CR 6 monster, so as per 127, it gets 5,600 gold to spend. It doesn't have a telekinesis ability like a true beholder, so what it can reasonably put on/off is a bit problematic, so I'm going to 'cop out' and give it a Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone. (+1 AC) Now to type in all it's stats because it's not in the SRD. *mutters* Oh, and if you read it again, you see, that it sais: NPC Level - Value of Gear. It does not say Challenge Rating There are also some example characters like the gnoll ranger that show, that equipment value is based on the class (or NPC-class) levels, not the CR or the racial hit dies. You can also see this by the fact, that the lizardfolk, gnoll or whatever racial adjustments for monsterous NPCs on the same page don't say anything about increased money. So, gauth, no class levels: CR 6 treasure (54% no items, 4% 1d4 mudane items, 39% 1d3 minor magic items 1% medium magic item. - rolled randomly so in case of a gauth probably not useful), no NPC equipment. If the gauth was a 6th level psion (I think this is the best "assosiated class"), he would have treasure of a CR12 monster (26% no item, 54% 1d6 minor and so on) plus 5,600 to best fit the character as NPC equipment. If the gauth was no gauth but - let's say an ogre, he would also get his club and hide armor for free, because it is in his monster-entry. But most pitlords here do that wrong so probably nobody will complain, if your gauth has a Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone. :( |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-20-05, 08:52 AM | @Tok So how well is that eyrine going to be prepared? :eek: :) Up to 4 minor magic items and 1 medium, spending no more than 9k to aqcuire these items. Hmm.... mithril chain shirt +2 (minor) 5100gp shield of faith +3 (minor) 300gp barkskin +2 (minor) 300gp endurance (minor) 300gp Haste (medium) 750gp So, short on it's gold spending, but i'm sure you won't mind. ;) Good luck. -ToK **EDIT The Gauth could still "eat" potions that are lying on the floor as part of it's treasure. |
| Pitlords10-20-05, 09:04 AM | Oh, and if you read it again, you see, that it sais: NPC Level - Value of Gear. It does not say Challenge Rating There are also some example characters like the gnoll ranger that show, that equipment value is based on the class (or NPC-class) levels, not the CR or the racial hit dies. You can also see this by the fact, that the lizardfolk, gnoll or whatever racial adjustments for monsterous NPCs on the same page don't say anything about increased money. So, gauth, no class levels: CR 6 treasure (54% no items, 4% 1d4 mudane items, 39% 1d3 minor magic items 1% medium magic item. - rolled randomly so in case of a gauth probably not useful), no NPC equipment. If the gauth was a 6th level psion (I think this is the best "assosiated class"), he would have treasure of a CR12 monster (26% no item, 54% 1d6 minor and so on) plus 5,600 to best fit the character as NPC equipment. If the gauth was no gauth but - let's say an ogre, he would also get his club and hide armor for free, because it is in his monster-entry. But most pitlords here do that wrong so probably nobody will complain, if your gauth has a Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone. :( The Rules of Gladius says something else: Monster Fights: This fight works similar to the Standard Arena Fight but you will fight a monster from the Monster Manual (or Psionic SRD) and you will fight on the Dungeon Map. You may not request a Monster Fight but it will always be picked by the GM. Instead of assigning a monster right away, the GM may also write "random monster" which leaves the choice to the assigned Pitlord (roll d% on DMG p79-81 in the appropriate level: gladiator's ECL = league of the monster). Pitlords assign treasure according to p127 (DMG) where the CR of the monster is the "NPC level". Rewards according to CR (click <here> for guidelines) |
| Mind Rogue10-20-05, 09:05 AM | Hmmm, I had a brain fart. I think I looked at that and read it as 6500 for some reason. Lemme undo the level up. Unless that's not all right? It's mostly to minimize potential mistakes the Pitlord du jour may make staring at character sheets. =X I don't really care, but the pitlord might, and technically you're not supposed to change your character sheet after match-ups. You could always just forward him the changes that have to be made. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-20-05, 09:25 AM | First fight is up. Shakari vs 3 large vipers (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7547261#post7547261) A real nail-biter i tell ya. -ToK |
| TelinArtho10-20-05, 10:25 AM | I must say I cry foul at the assignment of treasure for creatures. Dragonblood oil? Contact DC26 poison for 3d6 Str? Thanks Tellish... Now to find a way to boost my touch ac so the Derro can't hit me... |
| Ravashack10-20-05, 10:27 AM | I don't really care, but the pitlord might, and technically you're not supposed to change your character sheet after match-ups. You could always just forward him the changes that have to be made. Meh, was afraid of that. I didn't want to have to make the changes twice (easy for more screw ups)... |
| Mind Rogue10-20-05, 10:39 AM | Well, look at it this way, if you win, you level up and you won't have to make the changes. If you lose, well, then you are right where I am: 100 Xp away from leveling, which means you'll have to level down. |
| Myrridin10-20-05, 10:40 AM | Tactics for Kalarthus have been PM'd to Luni for my fight versus Fjord. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-20-05, 10:48 AM | I must say I cry foul at the assignment of treasure for creatures. Dragonblood oil? Contact DC26 poison for 3d6 Str? Thanks Tellish... Now to find a way to boost my touch ac so the Derro can't hit me... Well, they're avid poison users and don't risk accidently poisoning themselves. I thought it would be a nice touch. But you're right...that's way too potent for CR 3 creatures. Replace it with 2 doses each of drow poison. My bad. Sorry to scare you. -ToK |
| Ravashack10-20-05, 10:56 AM | Heh. Well, a completely fixed character sheet (I hope) and tactics PMed to Emrys Donovan, and corrections sent to Mind Rogue for tactics. |
| TelinArtho10-20-05, 11:07 AM | Well, they're avid poison users and don't risk accidently poisoning themselves. I thought it would be a nice touch. But you're right...that's way too potent for CR 3 creatures. Replace it with 2 doses each of drow poison. My bad. Sorry to scare you. -ToK Yeah it was a little intimidating... My original tactics were something on the order of: Get behind cover, make as small a target as possible until they use all of their first clips in their repeating crossbows, then get up and see if I have strength left... Anyway - Tactics have been sent. I appreciate the change. |
| NiQil10-20-05, 11:14 AM | Yeah it was a little intimidating... My original tactics were something on the order of: Get behind cover, make as small a target as possible until they use all of their first clips in their repeating crossbows, then get up and see if I have strength left... Anyway - Tactics have been sent. I appreciate the change. See...these are the types of tactics I am hoping others will write when I get Kermadec advanced enough....he will also be an avid poison user LOL. |
| Snommelp10-20-05, 11:15 AM | 3 of 4 sets of tactics received. If the internet connection in my dorm room comes back, I may have a fight up tomorrow. Or maybe not; seems that everyone enjoys pointing out mistakes that their opponents have made. |
| TelinArtho10-20-05, 11:31 AM | @Begferdeth - tactics for Delaria sent. @Snommelp and Gonbow - tactics received for Tatyana and Ielenia. @NiQil - go ahead - after this fight, Aquin will keep a potion of Delay Poison on him as a "just in case" |
| waywreth10-20-05, 11:38 AM | I'm home with the flu today so I'll send tactics tomorrow. Sorry for any delays that may cause. |
| Huan10-20-05, 11:45 AM | @OWA and ToK Tactics for your respective characters have been recieved, thank you. |
| TelinArtho10-20-05, 11:48 AM | Quick question about rewards for a monster fight: Is the EL of the fight determined by the rolls on the encounter table, or the resultant total from the creatures. For instance: 4 Derro can be rolled on the EL6 encounter. An EL6 arena fight would earn me 1800xp/2000gp. However, each derro is CR3 - so 4 of them is an EL7 fight. If I were to defeat these in a quest, I would get 2400xp/2600gp. So which is right? |
| King Uther10-20-05, 12:05 PM | @snommelp As far as pointing out mistakes that others make, I think a little constructive criticism goes a long way. Especially if they made an error or something of that nature. Tactics for Haiazan sent via PM. Working on other 2. |
| NiQil10-20-05, 12:11 PM | Anyone want to do me a huge favor and download the new FAQ, unzip it, and then email it to me? My computer for some reason won't unzip it, and I don't have any unzipping programs on my computer at work. |
| Enterik10-20-05, 12:30 PM | @King Uther: Tactics for HG Milstead versus Tak, the Hungry sent @Mind Rogue: Tactics for Devolved Sleestak vs Wolfcaller sent |
| King Uther10-20-05, 01:12 PM | @Emrys Tactics for Arbados, General of the HIVE have been sent via PM. @Usurpator Tactics for Balbanes have been sent via PM. Either it'll be a quick fight or a fun one. His choice. Either way he dies in melee. Yes, folks, Balbanes is going to kill a level 5 orc barbarian in melee. Or die trying. |
| TelinArtho10-20-05, 01:13 PM | @Gonbow: 2 questions for Tatyana's tactics sent for clarification. |
| Luni10-20-05, 01:30 PM | @Luni: "Not ready for Oct. 19. Use Craft Masonary for 76 gp." can easily be confused with ready, especially since I have to check 100 PCs quickly. You can also only use Free Activities in conjunction with a fight which adds to the confusion. Please leave the headline blank if you are not ready. Anyway, do you want that fight? PS: Tactics sent. Sorry, Caterane. I'll still take the fight. Dwarf vs Kobold. |
| TelinArtho10-20-05, 01:33 PM | Ok then - tactics for Zassl and ashhur not received yet. Vathelokai - still waiting for you to show up at your miniquest... |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-20-05, 01:40 PM | Quick question about rewards for a monster fight: Is the EL of the fight determined by the rolls on the encounter table, or the resultant total from the creatures. For instance: 4 Derro can be rolled on the EL6 encounter. An EL6 arena fight would earn me 1800xp/2000gp. However, each derro is CR3 - so 4 of them is an EL7 fight. If I were to defeat these in a quest, I would get 2400xp/2600gp. So which is right? You get what you rolled. So in this case, it's EL 7, 2400/2600. -ToK |
| Maraxus10-20-05, 02:54 PM | Sam vs Rebreg is up. |
| Luni10-20-05, 03:28 PM | Can Hagrid beat the #1 ranked gladiator, found out here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7550041&postcount=522) |
| Gonbow10-20-05, 03:37 PM | @Gonbow: 2 questions for Tatyana's tactics sent for clarification. Recieved and responded to. |
| Luni10-20-05, 03:39 PM | @TelinARtho: Tactics for the HP monster sent. I have a 34 hp advantage over the kobold. I do hope I don't get Zassled! @Nightbanegod: Archie Longbow is tricky. I'll sent winning tactics tomorrow. |
| King Uther10-20-05, 03:40 PM | @Pittbull Congratulations. You knew what you had to do and did it. Just barely, mind you, but did it. Good job. |
| TelinArtho10-20-05, 03:54 PM | Tactics received for Ashhur. Still waiting on Zassl. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-20-05, 03:59 PM | Yes, congradulations to Pittbull indeed. A mighty upset if i've ever seen one. -ToK |
| Usurpator10-20-05, 04:14 PM | @King Uther & @Snommelp I received both your tactics for Grik vs. Balbanes. Fight will be up this weekend. @Snommelp I sent you Flamehair's tactics. |
| Sindorin10-20-05, 05:09 PM | Re: Hagrid II vs. Uhmentarymster the Old: Wow, and I thought we made all those blasted changes to our arena map so that wouldn't happen... interesting times these be. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-20-05, 05:15 PM | Ho-hum...yet another nail-bitting monster fight. Aquin vs 4 Derro -ToK |
| Snommelp10-20-05, 05:16 PM | Sam vs Rebreg is up. Exceptionally bad luck for someone who's supposed to be a god against giants... yeah, expendables might help, but I prefer things that I don't have to pay for over and over again. None of my characters use expendables, not even Grik, who's won 6 of 8 so far. All tactics received. If my internet connection in my dorm room is back on after I get back from work, I can double-check any errors that were brought to my attention, and fights will be started tomorrow. |
| TelinArtho10-20-05, 05:20 PM | Thanks Tellish - I'm sure it wouldn't have been much more interesting if they had their dragon bile - I would've been down just as quick... Also, can you add in his profession income (10+14)*6 = 144gp. Thanks /d |
| NiQil10-20-05, 05:29 PM | @ TheMagister & Waywreth: Received tactics from both. Hopefully will get to your fight tomorrow night. Also, I have audited both character's sheets and have posted the results in the Prison thread for correction after I have the fight up. @ Emrys Donovan & Ribking: Still need tactics from you both. Want to do this fight Saturday morning, so please have your tactics in by the deadline. Edit: Have also edited Ribking's character, and while I can't edit Emrys' character, I did post violations. So make sure and check the Prison thread for corrections to make after the fight is posted. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-20-05, 05:43 PM | Thanks Tellish - I'm sure it wouldn't have been much more interesting if they had their dragon bile - I would've been down just as quick... Also, can you add in his profession income (10+14)*6 = 144gp. Thanks /d It's a done deal. -ToK |
| TelinArtho10-20-05, 05:57 PM | Tatyana vs Ielenia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7551406) Not an easy fight when both characters want to sneak and they have LOS to each other to start... Anyway - its up - feel free to offer up opinions. |
| Emrys Donovan10-20-05, 06:02 PM | Tactics for Anya (Mind Rogue) and Perius (Ravashack) received. Fight will be started tonight. Tactics for Arbados (King Uther) received; awaiting tactics for Gang Lion (Sloisel). Fight will be run Sunday evening if tactics not received by 9 pm US Central on 20 October 2005. I apologize if I don't get the first fight finished tonight. I have to pack for an overnight JROTC orienteering trip. I will be leaving right after school Friday, and will probably have no internet acces until late Sunday night, but i will get these fights done. |
| Luni10-20-05, 07:42 PM | Tactics received for: Krunch, Fjord, Kalarthus. Only missing Crovax |
| sloisel10-20-05, 07:58 PM | The Gauth is a CR 6 monster, so as per 127, it gets 5,600 gold to spend. It doesn't have a telekinesis ability like a true beholder, so what it can reasonably put on/off is a bit problematic, so I'm going to 'cop out' and give it a Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone. (+1 AC) Now to type in all it's stats because it's not in the SRD. *mutters* I will make a valiant effort at taking him down, but what this monster really calls for is an invisible caster with summon swarm. Maybe I should stop being silly and make a cleric(magic)/psion like anyone with sense. Sébastien Loisel |
| Gonbow10-20-05, 09:02 PM | I will make a valiant effort at taking him down, but what this monster really calls for is an invisible caster with summon swarm. Maybe I should stop being silly and make a cleric(magic)/psion like anyone with sense. Sébastien Loisel <chuckles> That's why I made Tatyana and Yasha; And even Tatyana isn't doing /that/ good, just barely breaking even record wise now. I'll get this going as soon as you send me tactics; I want to break my string of late fights. |
| waywreth10-20-05, 09:40 PM | @The Undershadow - Tactics for Dargain sent. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-20-05, 10:02 PM | I will make a valiant effort at taking him down, but what this monster really calls for is an invisible caster with summon swarm. Maybe I should stop being silly and make a cleric(magic)/psion like anyone with sense. Sébastien Loisel Have you checked out it's grapple bonus? +3???!!! A gnomish sorcerer could grapple this sucker to death. lol lol -ToK |
| One_Winged_Angel10-20-05, 10:13 PM | Have you checked out it's grapple bonus? +3???!!! A gnomish sorcerer could grapple this sucker to death. lol lol -ToK I beg to differ. I have a gnome wizard (less inclined to even grapple) who has a -3 grapple check...wait...did my opponent send in tactics? :) |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-20-05, 10:27 PM | I beg to differ. I have a gnome wizard (less inclined to even grapple) who has a -3 grapple check...wait...did my opponent send in tactics? :) bull strength, enlarge person and you can lay the smackdown on that gauth. throw in a chill touch before you enter the grapple, and voila. As a decent mage you should have a DC of 16+ for your 1st level spells, and with it's +5 fort save, it's gonna go down in a hurry. And i'm talking about a low level mage. A CR6 mage would lead in with bestow curse, ray of exhaution. That's like -9 to his ray attacks of normally +6...it'll have a net -3 to hit you...-7 in a grapple. Like tell me you can't beat that? Heck, that gnomish mage could actually cast reduce person and still wrestle it to the ground. -ToK |
| Poe The Great10-20-05, 10:34 PM | @Huan-Tactics sent via PM @Mind Rogue- tactics sent via PM. |
| Maraxus10-21-05, 03:31 AM | Btw: TelinArtho: Tactics pmed. |
| MysticMonk200510-21-05, 04:04 AM | @SoulLord: Tactics E-Mailed for Lissa Vs Alac |
| sloisel10-21-05, 05:47 AM | Have you checked out it's grapple bonus? +3???!!! A gnomish sorcerer could grapple this sucker to death. lol lol -ToK I've actually given good thought to many tactics I can try, many of them have a problem: gauths fly. Sébastien Loisel |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-21-05, 07:49 AM | I've actually given good thought to many tactics I can try, many of them have a problem: gauths fly. Sébastien Loisel Ya, fly speed 20' and a 15' ceiling. Grappling is just a jump check away. Not even a big one at that. -ToK |
| Caterane10-21-05, 09:08 AM | Can Hagrid beat the #1 ranked gladiator, found out here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7550041&postcount=522) Thanks for running the fight, Luni. As always, Luck was not on my side. Still, I think the position Uhme double-moved to was not well-chosen because Hagrid could easily attack me the following round again, thanks to the too small cover and too close distance. My steed has a double-move speed of 320 which enables me to pick basically every position in the arena. Since Hagrid does not see where I ride (and my mount is soundless) there are enough positions where I could hide behind. Additionally, instead of the potion, I could tap my tattoo of vigor which saves me a full round. Or Eule taps it for me (intelligent familiar). Even Polymorph would be better because it heals hitpoints aswell as boosting consti and AC at the same time! I should be fully functional on round 2. Could you please look into that again? |
| NiQil10-21-05, 09:20 AM | @ ToK Can you do me two favors? I need the 50/50 rolls on my arrow misses to see if any were recoverable. Secondly, the skill earnings for Amantar are incorrect...he earned 60 gp, not 52. |
| SoulLord10-21-05, 10:01 AM | Tactics for Lissa and Alac Received Thanks to both gladiators for sending tactics by E-mail. will try to run fight today. |
| Pittbull10-21-05, 10:41 AM | Thanks for running the fight, Luni. As always, Luck was not on my side. But you have been allready lucky, when Hagrid dealt only 30 points damage with 2d8(avarage:9)+6d6(avarage:21)+2d8(avara ge:9)! @Cat: I see no contingencies for this case in your tactics, Hagrid isn't dumb too and his hustled speed is 140ft which should give a LoS on his shot. Of course you're suggestions to heal will work to, but I'm sure Luni wanted nothing bad for Uhme when she/he decided to use the improvised potion-option. Then Hagrid was lucky and hit again in the second round that wasn't so sure too.... All in all it's shame that Hagrid's bad luck on the damage didn't decide the fight, I know discussing a lost fight till everything has changed is quite a hobby of you ;) . If Luni wants to change Uhme's action in the first round, I'll accept the call and take the loss. Damn, that was so close! |
| Caterane10-21-05, 10:52 AM | @Peter: It's not a matter of discussing it until the result changes but that Uhme chose a very bad position when he retreated - a position that Hagrid could easily attack. It is obvious that if Uhme rides where he rode, he gets killed. Uhme has 320 foot speed. All the arena is open to him and there are positions that you cannot reach even with your 140ft double move. Wouldn't you agree that this should be handled appropriately or would you say that Uhme should ride to where you can kill him even if there are safe positions? And tactics for being disabled? Come on. Have you ever seen that in any tactic? I wrote 'potion' because I normally can draw and drink it in the same round. Since this is not the case at zero hitpoints, a tattoo would be much better. |
| Pittbull10-21-05, 11:01 AM | As I said I'm still angry about the low damage. On-Line-Roller-bah! Of course all of your suggestions are better than using the potion, they simply haven't been in the tactics, but you're right, I would try to change the result too. I think it's Luni's decission and I'll accept the call. :) |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-21-05, 11:02 AM | @ ToK Can you do me two favors? I need the 50/50 rolls on my arrow misses to see if any were recoverable. Secondly, the skill earnings for Amantar are incorrect...he earned 60 gp, not 52. If you looked at the online roller you would note that the 50/50 rolls were made at the time of the fight....you didn't get any arrows back. I'll edit your earnings to 60gp. -ToK |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-21-05, 11:07 AM | My two cents. When a gladiators tactics break down, which they most certainly did in that fight, it's up to the pitlord to adjudicate. If a player wants some sort of emergency tactic, then write it. If it was me, which it isn't, and i had made the improvised call on a spur of the moment because i had to make a decision for the gladiator and it resulted in his/her death, well....that's the way the ball bounces and would stick by my guns with the original call. But then again, that's just me. She could have stuck to the original plan which would have resulted in Uhme's demise as well, so either way, there was a reprieve. Like i said, that's just me. It's the price we all pay for having very low-hp gladiators vulnerable to first round attacks. I know i've had my fair share of them as well. -ToK |
| Myrridin10-21-05, 11:08 AM | @ ToK: Agreed. Sometimes luck isn't on your side. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 11:09 AM | As I said I'm still angry about the low damage. On-Line-Roller-bah! Of course all of your suggestions are better than using the potion, they simply haven't been in the tactics, but you're right, I would try to change the result too. I think it's Luni's decission and I'll accept the call. :) I have to interject something here. A couple of things, actually. With no mention whatsoever of healing in tactics, any healing done in the fight on Uhme's part is at the discretion of pitlord improvisation. But more importantly, since Uhme is disabled in the first round, and mounted, what happened couldn't have happened. Mounted Movement: If your mount moves, you use up a move action aswell. If you want to do an action while riding, you must complete the action before your mount has moved half its total distance during that round. Since being disabled limits you to a standard action OR a move action, either Uhme moves away, or heals...can't do both. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 11:10 AM | If you looked at the online roller you would note that the 50/50 rolls were made at the time of the fight....you didn't get any arrows back. I'll edit your earnings to 60gp. -ToK I'll have to look again...I didn't see a link to an online roller in the fight. I may have just missed it. But as long as it was done, then no worries. :) Edit: I see why now....I was looking for a link...completely skipped over the line at the top that just gave the ID the rolls were under LOL. |
| Caterane10-21-05, 11:15 AM | NiQil, you misunderstood that. It means that you cannot double move on your mount, then quick-dismount and move your own speed on top of that. You can even fullattack with a bow while your mount double-moves or runs. Uhme can of course use his actions. What he could not do is moving on his own after the mount moved. |
| Book510-21-05, 11:20 AM | @Usurpator - Tactics? @The Undershadow ... right. @SauroGenome - recieved. @NiQil - Recieved. "I edited the Devolved and Finduilas fight btw. - Turnover, and I found another thing I missed. I didnt confirm the crit on the scorching ray deathblow or record the expenditures correctly. That would have also potentially changed the outcome. Rewind spell to rnd 4." - old news. Never seen anything like it. Same fight. Same tactics. Basically the same actions, just the gods of chance chose diffrently this time. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 11:21 AM | While that may be what you meant it to say....that's not what it says. I don't know how much clearer "If your mount moves, you use up a move action as well." can be. I will readily agree that this is not the RAW for mounted movement. But that is what the Rules thread says, so that is what should be used. If the Rules thread is wrong, then it should be changed. But that is how it reads for the fight in question, and I feel that it should be used as it is written. |
| Caterane10-21-05, 11:23 AM | a) it has never ever been used that way because it would be a House-rule and crap. b) I wrote it. Sorry for my bad english. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 11:27 AM | a) it has never ever been used that way because it would be a House-rule and crap. b) I wrote it. Sorry for my bad english. That's how I have always taken it...as a houserule. And that is how I have always run fights, because that is how it is worded. And no need to apologize for bad english. But if it is intended to mean differently than what it says, than it should be changed. I guess it will also be up to the pitlord to determine whether the RAW rules are used here, or if that quote is taken as a houserule like I have always done. |
| Caterane10-21-05, 11:31 AM | Like that? Mounted Movement: If your mount moves, you move aswell. It does not take up your move-equivalent and standard actions, though. If you want to do an action while riding, you must complete the action before your mount has moved half its total distance during that round. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 11:33 AM | Like that? Much better. Now it looks like an explanation of the RAW rules, instead of a house rule limiting mounted combat. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-21-05, 11:35 AM | Kracknol (Saurogrenom): I still need your tactics. I was just about to send the goon-squad to pay Sunwolf a visit as well, but as i was typing this, his tactics came in. :D -ToK |
| Sunwolf10-21-05, 11:43 AM | @ToK I see you got my tactics. :) Forgot to add that Brilf earns 208gp (8*26) this week from scribing. |
| TelinArtho10-21-05, 11:43 AM | Zassl vs Ashhur (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7557086) Come watch the Kobold take down half a century of HP! Oh wait... |
| Maraxus10-21-05, 12:05 PM | To bad, I forgot about rage. That and a rather bad ray of enfeeblement took down Ashhur's to hit from hoped 20 to 17 and chuck-chuck I was dead. :) |
| Luni10-21-05, 12:32 PM | Thanks for running the fight, Luni. As always, Luck was not on my side. Still, I think the position Uhme double-moved to was not well-chosen because Hagrid could easily attack me the following round again, thanks to the too small cover and too close distance. My steed has a double-move speed of 320 which enables me to pick basically every position in the arena. Since Hagrid does not see where I ride (and my mount is soundless) there are enough positions where I could hide behind. Additionally, instead of the potion, I could tap my tattoo of vigor which saves me a full round. Or Eule taps it for me (intelligent familiar). Even Polymorph would be better because it heals hitpoints aswell as boosting consti and AC at the same time! I should be fully functional on round 2. Could you please look into that again? I'll take another look at it. I thought your phantom steed moved at 100', not 160'. Oops. That definetly allows you to get away from Hagrid. Poor Hagrid, if he only bought a strength bow, he would of shot you down first round. Your tattoo is a crawling tattoo, and Eule can't tap that for you. |
| Luni10-21-05, 12:37 PM | To bad, I forgot about rage. That and a rather bad ray of enfeeblement took down Ashhur's to hit from hoped 20 to 17 and chuck-chuck I was dead. :) I was worried you was going to levitate and fire off 8 magic missiles at me. Everage damage there is 56. |
| Caterane10-21-05, 12:39 PM | It doesn't matter wether it's a crawling tattoo or a regular one. It can crawl onto myself. It has been used that way in many many fights. |
| SoulLord10-21-05, 12:43 PM | I would Imagine your familiar able to use a crawling tatoo and direct it to affect you. But what I'm not sure is possible is for your familiar to tap a tatoo on yourself. # A character can trigger the effects of another’s psionic tattoo if the other wearer is unconscious. It is a full-round action to find, touch, and concentrate on an unconscious creature’s tattoo in order to tap it. |
| Caterane10-21-05, 12:48 PM | That's why it is a crawling tattoo. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 12:49 PM | Cat is correct. Crawling Tattoos: Crawling tattoos resemble standard psionic tattoos, but their effects are often harmful rather than beneficial. Like a psionic tattoo, a crawling tattoo can be scribed only with a power of no higher than 3rd level that targets one or more creatures. Exceptions are the body adjustment power, which can be scribed even though it affects only the manifester, and telepathy (compulsion) powers, which cannot be scribed at all. Powers that normally have an area affect only one target if scribed in a crawling tattoo. Powers with an experience point requirement cannot be scribed into a crawling tattoo. Otherwise, crawling tattoos are treated as psionic tattoos until they are activated by the wearer. The wearer of a crawling tattoo can tap the tattoo as a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity, mentally specifying a target (to which the wearer must have line of sight). Instead of manifesting its stored power, the tattoo animates, drops to the ground, and scuttles toward the target. The original wearer need no longer concentrate on the tattoo once animated. The animated tattoo moves toward its designated target in the same round when it is activated. Treat it as a Fine construct that has AC 18, 10 hit points, a hardness of 5, speed 30 feet, and a bonus on attack rolls equal to the wearer’s manifester level + his key ability modifier. Crawling tattoos, unlike true constructs, are subject to illusions, darkness, fog, and similar effects. Should the target be killed, teleport away, or otherwise absent itself before the animated tattoo reaches it, the wearer can reclaim the tattoo. If it is destroyed, a crawling tattoo shatters and evaporates. A crawling tattoo must enter the target’s square to attack and thus provokes attacks of opportunity as it passes through the target’s threatened area. The tattoo makes one touch attack per round thereafter until it strikes its target or is destroyed. On a successful attack, the power scribed in the crawling tattoo affects the target if the target fails the appropriate saving throw; however, powers that normally allow a Reflex saving throw automatically affect the touched target. Crawling tattoos can ferry beneficial powers as well as harmful ones, and a target can allow the tattoo’s touch attack to succeed if he or she desires. It is a standard action to activate the crawling tattoo, and then the tattoo would get it's actions, which would be to "attack" Uhme, who can then allow the attack to succeed. |
| SoulLord10-21-05, 12:54 PM | # A character can trigger the effects of another’s psionic tattoo if the other wearer is unconscious. It is a full-round action to find, touch, and concentrate on an unconscious creature’s tattoo in order to tap it. Ume doesn't have the tatoo so it has to activate the tatoo on uthmeyster |
| NiQil10-21-05, 12:58 PM | Ume doesn't have the tatoo so it has to activate the tatoo on uthmeyster Uhmentarymster (Uhme) has the tattoo, and is able to activate said tattoo as a standard action, which is allowed in disabled status. The tattoo then takes it's actions, which is to "attack" Uhme, who then allows the attack to succeed and gains the HP from the tattoo. Perfectly legal and legit. |
| SauroGrenom10-21-05, 01:03 PM | Tellish of Ket, That fight between Kracknol and the Ethereal Filtcher was cancled. Krackno was schedueled to fight in two different fights this week, and his match with Solon the Usurpator is going ahead while the one with the monster is cancled. I PM'd the Pitlords, and they sent me a reply saying this is what to do. I guess the pitlords didn't edit the parrings. |
| SoulLord10-21-05, 01:11 PM | Uhmentarymster (Uhme) has the tattoo, and is able to activate said tattoo as a standard action, which is allowed in disabled status. The tattoo then takes it's actions, which is to "attack" Uhme, who then allows the attack to succeed and gains the HP from the tattoo. Perfectly legal and legit. Agree. Uhme could use a standard action to activate his tatoo Eule Could use a full round action to activate Uhmes tatoo (if he's unconcious) As per if the pitlord should have used such tactics without them being mentioned in the tactics is the topic of another discussion. |
| Luni10-21-05, 01:21 PM | Agree. Uhme could use a standard action to activate his tatoo Eule Could use a full round action to activate Uhmes tatoo (if he's unconcious) As per if the pitlord should have used such tactics without them being mentioned in the tactics is the topic of another discussion. Show me someone who has tactics that include the disabled account. The biggest error in the fight, is that Uhme didn't move far enough. Using the tattoo instead of a potion, makes no change in the existing fight. In rectorspect, polymorphing into a treant, and killing the poor horse would probably be the best tactic as per Cat's Tactics. Uhme, can't quick dismount with a reasonable chance of success, so Polymorph on the poor horse's back. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 01:33 PM | Show me someone who has tactics that include the disabled account. The biggest error in the fight, is that Uhme didn't move far enough. Using the tattoo instead of a potion, makes no change in the existing fight. In rectorspect, polymorphing into a treant, and killing the poor horse would probably be the best tactic as per Cat's Tactics. Uhme, can't quick dismount with a reasonable chance of success, so Polymorph on the poor horse's back. Don't get me wrong....I'm not in any way saying that he should have used the tattoo. If I had run this fight, there would have been no healing if none was mentioned in tactics, since there is no justification for that type of improvisation (TheMagister's Torgirr found this out either last week or the week before when I made the same ruling). The only point I was trying to make is that, given the circumstances, using the tattoo is legal and legit. Allowing it, however, is a whole different ballgame. |
| Caterane10-21-05, 01:44 PM | Hey come on. I can't believe we discuss wether healing at zero hitpoints is appropriate! If Uhme doesn't heal, he'd not been played as a character. I have one standard action. I have a tattoo on my sheet that needs only a standard action. Is it that difficult?? Do you really think ANYONE would write the contingency "If disabled, heal" into his tactics? No, because everyone should savely auto-assume that every pitlord would do the OBVIOUS course of action. Coinincidently, it seems that when it comes to my characters, several voices request to have them run like complete fools. @Luni: You cannot expect anyone to write a 'disabled' contingency into his tactic. That has never happened and never will because it's obvious. Now here's the choice: a) potion (takes 2 full rounds) or b) tattoo (instant healing). That does not even fall under 'Pitlord Adaption' because it's so obvious that it does not need debating. And you cannot use my treant tactic because you would use it completely out of context! IF at all, then I wanted to be fully buffed and attack as a treant, not at 0 hp and without any chance to buff further. Worse even, you'd destroy my only means of escape! I think I am not requesting anything unreasonable with the tattoo. |
| Myrridin10-21-05, 01:58 PM | Don't most people include a "If I'm below x HP, then use (insert healing device of choice)." clauses in to their tactics? If that was in Cat's tactics, then I agree, it's perfectly valid to use the tattoo. If it wasn't, well, I've written tactics that didn't include healing clauses, because I knew that it would just waste my items in that fight, leaving me without them to use in a future fight. That said, the Pitlord is more than welcome to leave the fight how it is, as I believe Cat wrote that the Pitlord is under no obligation to change a fight, even if it was won through a Pitlord error. Something that is under debate in this case. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 02:01 PM | Hey come on. I can't believe we discuss wether healing at zero hitpoints is appropriate! If Uhme doesn't heal, he'd not been played as a character. I have one standard action. I have a tattoo on my sheet that needs only a standard action. Is it that difficult?? Do you really think ANYONE would write the contingency "If disabled, heal" into his tactics? No, because everyone should savely auto-assume that every pitlord would do the OBVIOUS course of action. Coinincidently, it seems that when it comes to my characters, several voices request to have them run like complete fools. @Luni: You cannot expect anyone to write a 'disabled' contingency into his tactic. That has never happened and never will because it's obvious. Now here's the choice: a) potion (takes 2 full rounds) or b) tattoo (instant healing). That does not even fall under 'Pitlord Adaption' because it's so obvious that it does not need debating. And you cannot use my treant tactic because you would use it completely out of context! IF at all, then I wanted to be fully buffed and attack as a treant, not at 0 hp and without any chance to buff further. Worse even, you'd destroy my only means of escape! I think I am not requesting anything unreasonable with the tattoo. I have to disagree with you here, Cat. With no mention of healing *anywhere in your tactics, this falls squarely into pitlord improvisation territory. Technically, a pitlord has *every right to expect contingencies for situations that might come up. Does this situation come up often? No, not at all. But your argument, in my view, would carry a lot more weight if you have thrown in SOMETHING about healing ANYWHERE in your tactics. Even something as simple as "Heal as needed." If you have not mentioned healing at all, it then falls into the purview of the pitlord and their discretion. Most of the rest of the fighters I have seen here almost always mention healing in some way in their tactics. Those that don't usually don't want to waste the resources on a fight they will probably lose. Occasionally someone forgets to mention it, and it then becomes pitlord discretion. But the onus is on the fighter to write those into the tactics...not the pitlord to just assume that should be done. Tactical errors are what win and lose battles quite often here. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-21-05, 02:01 PM | Hey come on. I can't believe we discuss wether healing at zero hitpoints is appropriate! If Uhme doesn't heal, he'd not been played as a character. I have one standard action. I have a tattoo on my sheet that needs only a standard action. Is it that difficult?? Do you really think ANYONE would write the contingency "If disabled, heal" into his tactics? No, because everyone should savely auto-assume that every pitlord would do the OBVIOUS course of action. Coinincidently, it seems that when it comes to my characters, several voices request to have them run like complete fools. @Luni: You cannot expect anyone to write a 'disabled' contingency into his tactic. That has never happened and never will because it's obvious. Now here's the choice: a) potion (takes 2 full rounds) or b) tattoo (instant healing). That does not even fall under 'Pitlord Adaption' because it's so obvious that it does not need debating. And you cannot use my treant tactic because you would use it completely out of context! IF at all, then I wanted to be fully buffed and attack as a treant, not at 0 hp and without any chance to buff further. Worse even, you'd destroy my only means of escape! I think I am not requesting anything unreasonable with the tattoo. Personally, i think what you are requesting is unreasonable. IF you wanted Uhme to heal or act a certain way when below a certain number of hit points, you should have said so. I'll take NiQil's side and say, i wouldn't have had you act any different, other than carefull not to bleed out, and wouldn't have healed you one iota. If you don't want your character to be run like a fool, then make him act like he isn't. Not trying to be offensive Cat, honestly. I can't even count the times you've come across the table to pitlords for improvising tactics against your opponents because it wasn't in THEIR tactics, and i don't see this as any different. Here's how i see it. Uhme walks in, completely overconfident thinking he will CRUSH his enemy, and not preparing himself mentally if anything should go wrong. He gets surprised, panics, and dies. There actually isn't anything wrong with that scenario. No matter what intelligence a character has. People panic, plain and simple. Uhme......panicked....and died because he didn't prepare himself mentally. It has NOTHING to do with the pitlord running you like a fool. You ran him like a fool...not the pitlord. Just my two copper anyhow. -ToK **EDIT Slight retraction. Uhme does have a healing contingency in his tactics. Soooo.....tatoo away i guess. -ToK |
| Caterane10-21-05, 02:13 PM | With no mention of healing *anywhere in your tactics I don't know what you guys are talking about. Excerpt from my tactic: Heal: I prefer to be offensive rather than defensive so only heal if I have nothing better to do. Except when his fly is dispelled. Then I don't take any risks and want to heal in savety. Use rope trick if necessary and buff to the roof. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 02:17 PM | I don't know what you guys are talking about. Excerpt from my tactic: As I said in the beginning...I stated if you do not have a healing contigent, then I wouldn't allow it. If you do, great....then yer set. I never looked. I was simply countering your contention that something like this never falls under pitlord improvisation. Edit: Although I have to say, Cat....based on that Healing provision in your tactics, I wouldn't have had you heal if I had run the battle. That "nothing better to do" part would have had me attack, had I run the fight. So I guess that goes to show you how different people interpret the same words differently. So bear that in mind in the future. |
| SoulLord10-21-05, 02:33 PM | To reduce speculation Fight Set-up: Start in the front of my box Enter with Scroll of Blacklight [CL 8] Mounted on Phantom Steed [Speed: 160] Main Tactic: (1) Cast Blacklight, ride towards the center of the arena and scout efficiently until I see him. My double-movement of 320 makes this easily possible. Additionally, Eule scouts out into the other direction. Use remaining movement to keep as far away from him as possible. (2) I will now list different scenarios listed in order of priority. Pick the one that applies first. Bascially, I just need to dispel his flight. - Hagrid flies: Dispel it at once (CL8 scroll, mem'd, CL 7+6 scrolls; in that order) until dispelled and always ride away as far as possible. Once dispelled, cast fly of my own and lift off. Far away and out of LOS, buff with protection from arrows (if he casts metaphysical weapon on his bow or PfA runs out, add shield, alter self (troglo), and protection from good but I don't see how he should know with no spellcraft and me blacklight up). Offense will be Dispel magic again (CL 6 scroll), Suggestion ("Ranged Combat is not honorable. Stop doing it.") and ask for surrender if he fails the save, else continue with Hideous laughters and Stinking Clouds. If he fails one save, cast Deep Slumber and send Eule to CDG with Shocking Grasp (10d6 electricity), else use MM and other damage spells (true strike for those with attack rolls) and alchemy until he's dead. - No Flight and in Range: If in range (Range = 160+close range 45), ride in, cast Suggestion ("Your expendables are way too valuable to use. Better save them for the next fight!"), and ride away as far as possible and out of LOS. Cast fly and proceed as above except for the dispel of course. He won't use his fly potion anymore. - No Flight and not in Range: If not in range, ride closer and cast stinking cloud on him. If he fails, do Suggestion Maneuver above. Else continue with whatever maneuver is appropriate. - Hagrid not in sight: Cast See Invisiblity (scroll). If I still cannot see him, cast Arcane Sight (scroll) and ready an action to ride away if he approaches (let him come as close as possible but still save for me before riding away. Arcane Sight is an auto-pinpoint). Modifications: Fly: If I ever see Hagrid flying, dispel it. This has TOP PRIORITY!! Web: If I can ever web him, do it at once! Grapple: If Uhme is grappled, dimension door out. If that failed, cast true strike (Verbal only) and use +20 to get out of grapple, call and quickmount steed, and ride away. Buffs: Renew buffs, especially Blacklight if he is still capable of harming me. If the 2nd Blacklight is used up, use Greater Invisibility (scroll first). Battle-Uhme: If it is necessary, fly, polymorph into Treant, Stoneskin, Shield, and attack in melee. AC 28 and DR 10/adamantine, +32 hitpoints. Make sure Eule shares all these spells! Note that a treant can still cast so use it (Shocking grasp for example combined with an attack). Heal: I prefer to be offensive rather than defensive so only heal if I have nothing better to do. Except when his fly is dispelled. Then I don't take any risks and want to heal in savety. Use rope trick if necessary and buff to the roof. Important Notes: - As per Elder decision, someone cannot auto-pinpoint the center of a spell like darkness and blacklight. He has to pinpoint the caster normally. - A pin lasts only 1 round and does not do any damage. It is basically useless to Hagrid because he neither has an ally nor a second attack. |
| Caterane10-21-05, 02:49 PM | NiQil, Uhme is at zero hitpoints. He cannot attack or cast because he dies then. The ONLY option is to heal. In this case it does not matter if it's in the tactic or not. It's just the only option. Oh and I did not want to heal lightly because even 1 hitpoint is enough. I have still all my actions and can cast all spells. That's the reason for my wording. 'Disabled' however is something different because I cannot act! |
| Myrridin10-21-05, 02:54 PM | Or Cat could just accept how the Pitlord ran the fight, and take the loss... |
| NiQil10-21-05, 03:03 PM | So what happens if I have a fight in where I have not received tactics from either party, and neither have default tactics? How would I proceed from there? I am hoping this won't be an issue, since there is still a good half day to get tactics in to me, but I figured I would ask now, just in case, since I haven't heard anything from either gladiator...and both have been on as recently as today. |
| Mind Rogue10-21-05, 03:12 PM | Well, personally, I generally give the person the benefit of the doubt and assume they want healing when they are about to be clocked. This means that if dropped to zero Hp, they are going to want to heal if possible. I also assume that someone would try to tumble or withdraw if the circumstances warrent it. These things are assumed to be the base case unless overridden by the player's tactics, like "Don't use any items" or "don't bother healing". With Cat's explicit tactics not to bother healing if he can do something, though, I can see where you might decide to not heal. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-21-05, 03:12 PM | So what happens if I have a fight in where I have not received tactics from either party, and neither have default tactics? How would I proceed from there? I am hoping this won't be an issue, since there is still a good half day to get tactics in to me, but I figured I would ask now, just in case, since I haven't heard anything from either gladiator...and both have been on as recently as today. Double count out. I would. Each would get xp for a loss. But that's just me. @Myrr: yup. -ToK |
| TelinArtho10-21-05, 03:15 PM | I'd probably run the fight as simply as possible, including as few expendables as possible. You should be able to determine what they would each do on their own (for the most part). You could even go so far as writing down a basic tactic for each (if you can block out the other's tactic at the time). The other option is to just give them more time - and PM them now to remind them. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-21-05, 03:22 PM | So what happens if I have a fight in where I have not received tactics from either party, and neither have default tactics? How would I proceed from there? I am hoping this won't be an issue, since there is still a good half day to get tactics in to me, but I figured I would ask now, just in case, since I haven't heard anything from either gladiator...and both have been on as recently as today. You can request a by-week. Still, they have a little time left, no? @Cat+Debaters: This is an issue we've all delt with before, so I dont' know what is so different. The pitlord should run the fight as though the character was his/her own, trying his/her best not to use the other player's tactics as an advantage. Disabled contingencies don't come up...well, ever unless you are expecting to hit the magical 0 HP. I've seen ONE contingency for such an event, and the character he did it for was supposed to commit suicide. This was just on his character sheet. Odd little kobald... Anyway, since Cat did include contingecy to heal and polymorphing would be the fastest way to do this, I don't see why this is such a hard debate. It's certainly what I would do in such an event if I controlled Cat's character in an everyday campaign. As for killing the horse...well, it's only a summoned creature, hardly worth even considering really. @Myridden: You're kidding, right? Cat accept a loss? |
| Caterane10-21-05, 03:22 PM | @Mind: I DID write to heal! @OWA: Polymorph is not an option. See some posts above. And a loss is a loss when the character is beaten. Uhme isn't. @NiQil: Since Uhme is at zero and cannot take any actions, what else shoud he do? Flee for the next 200 rounds? @Myrridin: Why have a comments thread at all? Every second fight has mistakes and they are all fixed. Why should it be different for me? @Tok: I will remind you of that now everytime you are unhappy with anything in your fights. @all: If you think that healing a character at zero hitpoints is unreasonable I cannot help you. It's the only action a character can do asides from dying and I don't see why this is of any debate here. I have one standard action, I have a tattoo that uses a standard action, so this is the obvious way to heal which I wrote in my tactic. I'm not going to post further now because this is really ridiculous and I'm beginning to lose my faith in good pitlordings. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 03:28 PM | I'd probably run the fight as simply as possible, including as few expendables as possible. You should be able to determine what they would each do on their own (for the most part). You could even go so far as writing down a basic tactic for each (if you can block out the other's tactic at the time). The other option is to just give them more time - and PM them now to remind them. Unfortunately, if I don't have tactics by the time I have the time available to run the fight, I cannot guarantee that I would get it done at all. Saturday mornings are usually when I do these...unless I have gotten tactics sooner. I get up before my family does and crank them out while they sleep. @ ToK: That's kinda what I was thinking as well. I'm of your opinion with regard to tactics....get em in by the deadline or give someone some notice that you will be late. The deadline is there for a reason <shrug>. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 03:34 PM | @Mind: I DID write to heal! @OWA: Polymorph is not an option. See some posts above. And a loss is a loss when the character is beaten. Uhme isn't. @NiQil: Since Uhme is at zero and cannot take any actions, what else shoud he do? Flee for the next 200 rounds? @Myrridin: Why have a comments thread at all? Every second fight has mistakes and they are all fixed. Why should it be different for me? @Tok: I will remind you of that now everytime you are unhappy with anything in your fights. @all: If you think that healing a character at zero hitpoints is unreasonable I cannot help you. It's the only action a character can do asides from dying and I don't see why this is of any debate here. I have one standard action, I have a tattoo that uses a standard action, so this is the obvious way to heal. I'm not going to post further now because this is really ridiculous and I'm beginning to lose my faith in good pitlordings. As I said Cat....people interpret different thing in different ways. Chalk this up to poorly worded tactics. We've all done it. I'll be the first to admit I have boneheaded some tactics. Or that I have put things in such a way that they could be misunderstood or interpretted differently than I intended. The fault there is mine, not the pitlords. Pitlord can only work with what we give them. |
| TelinArtho10-21-05, 03:37 PM | Players are supposed to send their tactics as early as possible. If you did not receive tactics until friday, write send a PM or email to the player and remind him of that. Sometimes there are email mistakes, or other misunderstandings and this note will help to prevent bad feelings afterwards. If you still didn't get tactics until saturday and after informing the player, you may begin to run the fight by default tactics (which are normally written somewhere on the character sheet). If there aren't any default tactics on the sheet, then either use one or two tactics from past fights as a guideline, or improvise and play the character according to his character with basic tactics (nothing complicated). I do want to remind people that if you haven't received tactics in a timely manner, you are supposed to PM/Email the player. Yes we all know the deadline, but that doesn't mean this step should be ignored. Also without default tactics or tactics from previous fights - you are not supposed to give a player (or both players) an automatic loss. you are supposed to run the fight with basic tactics. |
| SoulLord10-21-05, 03:47 PM | I do want to remind people that if you haven't received tactics in a timely manner, you are supposed to PM/Email the player. Yes we all know the deadline, but that doesn't mean this step should be ignored. Also without default tactics or tactics from previous fights - you are not supposed to give a player (or both players) an automatic loss. you are supposed to run the fight with basic tactics. I have seen some fights declared as a loss for a player that did not send tactics nor had default tactics in his sheet. And frankly I don't disagree with the ruling In fact if it was a subject open to discussion I would vote for it. |
| Myrridin10-21-05, 03:52 PM | ed. |
| TelinArtho10-21-05, 03:56 PM | I would be fine with that if it weren't for the statement in the Rules. If the rules were changed to reflect a "If you don't send tactics and are marked as active - you will auto-lose" policy - that would be fine. Just make sure its in the rules first. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 03:56 PM | I do want to remind people that if you haven't received tactics in a timely manner, you are supposed to PM/Email the player. Yes we all know the deadline, but that doesn't mean this step should be ignored. Also without default tactics or tactics from previous fights - you are not supposed to give a player (or both players) an automatic loss. you are supposed to run the fight with basic tactics. See, the problem I have with that.....and this is just my opinion....is, if someone isn't going to put forth the effort to write tactics or have default tactics on their sheet or even send a note saying they will be late...then why should I put forth the effort to run a fight that they obviously showed no interest in? Give the person the victory who *did care and move on. Now, with this being both fighters in the same situation, I don't really think a double loss would be accepted, as much as I would like to do so if it gets to that point. So I will probably run a bare-bones fight based on the overall build intent. But I think that maybe a double-loss would serve a better purpose. My 3.141592 coppers. |
| TelinArtho10-21-05, 04:01 PM | then why should I put forth the effort to run a fight that they obviously showed no interest in? Because you get credits for well run fights, not for simple: Player A is disqualified. As I have said before, if the rules were changed to reflect this position, I would be fine - but as the rules stand - just run the fight. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-21-05, 04:03 PM | I would be fine with that if it weren't for the statement in the Rules. If the rules were changed to reflect a "If you don't send tactics and are marked as active - you will auto-lose" policy - that would be fine. Just make sure its in the rules first. Actually, that's what it was back in the day. However this led to a lot of whinening about how "I was about to send in my tactics really!" or "It's not fair! My build is straightforeward and should be easy to run!" Truthfully, when I used to pitlord, I would often request waiting a week and give them a chance to send in their tactics. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-21-05, 04:06 PM | See, the problem I have with that.....and this is just my opinion....is, if someone isn't going to put forth the effort to write tactics or have default tactics on their sheet or even send a note saying they will be late...then why should I put forth the effort to run a fight that they obviously showed no interest in? Give the person the victory who *did care and move on. Now, with this being both fighters in the same situation, I don't really think a double loss would be accepted, as much as I would like to do so if it gets to that point. So I will probably run a bare-bones fight based on the overall build intent. But I think that maybe a double-loss would serve a better purpose. My 3.141592 coppers. I'm gonna point out to you one BIG pitfall about "just running the fight" on your own. This actually happened to me, so i hope it serves as a lesson for you. What happened was when the players saw the fight (both of them), both said that certain resources shouldn't have been used without consent, etc.. blah blah, poorly run gladiators against the grain of what THEY would have done, blah blah blah. If you run it, it's your choice, but just letting you know it could come back to bite you in the butt. Double count out is what i would do. -ToK |
| NiQil10-21-05, 04:15 PM | I'm gonna point out to you one BIG pitfall about "just running the fight" on your own. This actually happened to me, so i hope it serves as a lesson for you. What happened was when the players saw the fight (both of them), both said that certain resources shouldn't have been used without consent, etc.. blah blah, poorly run gladiators against the grain of what THEY would have done, blah blah blah. If you run it, it's your choice, but just letting you know it could come back to bite you in the butt. Double count out is what i would do. -ToK See....I agree with you. But the Rules thread says the fight still has to be run. <shrug> |
| Luni10-21-05, 04:18 PM | @Caterane & Pittbull: I'll rerun the first round, by moving Uhme correctly the proper distance so that Hagrid won't get a 2nd shot. Poor Hagrid. As for the whole Crawling Tattoo bit, I have to agree with Caterane. The crawling Tattoo being activated, drops him to -1, it hits him for 4 temp hp, which is better then getting a crappy roll on CLW potion. Plus it fits his tactics more. I don't think any gladiator would ever sit down and activate his tattoo, or drink a potion, without attempting to break LoS with his opponent. @everyone: Calm down and be polite! |
| waywreth10-21-05, 04:18 PM | Personally I'd run the fight using no expendible items. And if anyone complained I'd inform them of the virtue of getting their characters in on time. I would however propose we change the rules to state if neither party submits tactics, the fight is simply removed from the pairings. |
| Pittbull10-21-05, 04:20 PM | OMG, what a dicussion! Just came back after watching Waterboy with my reckonvalecent girlfriend. OK, to make short. I think healing at zero hitpoints is reasonable and using the tatoo is the more clever way, but I really liked the idea of the panicked Uhmentarysmter, Tellish brought up ;). Just let Luni decide, what will happen. I'm aware that Hagrid will likely lose, if the modifications are made and I'll accept it. I knew from the beginning that his chances were pretty low. If Uhme taps his tatoo he'll be at 4 Hps and is able to ride away 320ft (he hasn't any knowlegde of psionics and might not know how hustle really works). If Hagrid isn't able to get a line of sight with 140ft movement he'll loses the fight. Edit: @Luni: You have been to fast for me, please consider Uhme's lack of psionic knowledge if you place him after his move. |
| SoulLord10-21-05, 04:37 PM | It seems that at least some parts are in agreement. How about setting up a quick Poll. Should paired gladiators Without default tactics. That have not submitted their tactics by 10:00 am Saturday -6gmt Be given an automatic loss (yes) (No) |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-21-05, 04:37 PM | @Telin: You're missing the most important part of that quote. "You MAY". And if you chose, to then your bolded parts come into play. Personally, i wouldn't because it's not fair to either. A double count-out is the simplest and least controversial decision. @Hagrid (Pittbull): As i've said before. I'd move him out of the way and heal, but obviously with his lack of psionic knowledge and "panicked state", you would hustle and shoot him dead. Anything else and well...it's been beaten to death. I'll just let it rest. Other than vague "out of LOS" or "at distance", nothing would prevent him from moving what he thought would be "enough out of the way" only to see you hustle around the corner and kill him. My two copper. -ToK |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-21-05, 04:38 PM | See....I agree with you. But the Rules thread says the fight still has to be run. <shrug> No it doesn't. It just says, if you CHOSE to run it, then follow Telin's bolded parts. ...you may begin to run the fight by default tactics (which are normally written somewhere on the character sheet). If there aren't any default tactics on the sheet, then either use one or two tactics from past fights as a guideline, or improvise and play the character according to his character with basic tactics (nothing complicated). So, if you chose to, then you follow the rest of the paragraph. If you chose NOT to, then double count out it is, as the same rule would apply to both gladiators. -ToK |
| Caterane10-21-05, 04:47 PM | Uhme has just witnessed firsthand what Hagrid could do. He takes that into consideration, too. And I have no idea why Uhme should be "panicked"!? Did Hagrid cast Fear on me? If so please tell me because I have then missed his 7 levels of wizard. |
| SoulLord10-21-05, 04:48 PM | But in the above case what if a part did send tactics and the other did not would it still be a double loss? |
| NiQil10-21-05, 04:49 PM | But in the above case what if a part did send tactics and the other did not would it still be a double loss? Then in that case the person that did send them would get the win. |
| LongArcher10-21-05, 04:50 PM | "panicked"!? I think they were speaking metaphorically. :D On a personal note, as much as I would love to preserve my unbeaten streak, I don't think I could ever stoop to complaining to win. It's just a game and we need to lighten up a bit. I would just calmly point out certain errors and if the pitlord agreed great, if they don't, then that's great too. /amz |
| NiQil10-21-05, 04:51 PM | Uhme has just witnessed firsthand what Hagrid could do. He takes that into consideration, too. And I have no idea why Uhme should be "panicked"!? Did Hagrid cast Fear on me? If so please tell me because I have then missed his 7 levels of wizard. I believe panicked was used in a descriptive sense, not in a mechanical sense. |
| Caterane10-21-05, 04:52 PM | Whatever. It has no impact on the fight or I declare Hagrid lazy so that he doesn't want to move. :D |
| King Uther10-21-05, 04:55 PM | Well, I wish I got to have some of this conversation. 1. Uhm should get to heal. If I was at 0hp, I would expect to heal. It's just common sense. 2. Even if Uhm moves infinitely far away, all Hagrid has to do is get LOS via Hustle and the fight is over anyways. 140ft movement is a long ways when you can shoot from any distance in the arena. |
| Usurpator10-21-05, 05:42 PM | Am I missing something here? 1. Uhme did try to heal, that's why he drew the potion bottle, right? 2. If you want for a Pitlord to choose a particular tactic (use the tattoo) you should specify it in your tactics. If you don't, the Pitlord is under no obligation to choose the most effective tactics (he might not even come up with something like the Polymorph idea), he only has to use an acceptable tactic. Drawing a cure potion with the intention of downing it next round is acceptable. 3. I don't think it's proper and fair to provide extra tactics and options after the battle. After I have seen the battle I can usually point out a whole load of things that my character could have done better. But that's with the advantage of hindsight, knowing what the positions and rolls are. 4. Uhme is a character with many options available to him. Advantage: you have a lot of flexibility when preparing tactics for a fight. Disadvantage: if a fight doesn't run as expected you have the chance that a Pitlord doesn't choose the most optimal tactic when he has to improvise. Goes with the territory. If you saw the last fight of Devolved Sleestak where his tactics explicitily said to grapple on the first attack, but the Pitlord didn't do that, that's a reason to get upset. Choosing a potion instead of a tattoo is really a minor quibble. A minor quibble with big consquences, sure, but still a minor quibble. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-21-05, 05:46 PM | Very well said, Usurp...i couldn't have said it better myself. -ToK |
| Usurpator10-21-05, 05:49 PM | @Cat+Debaters: This is an issue we've all delt with before, so I dont' know what is so different. The pitlord should run the fight as though the character was his/her own, trying his/her best not to use the other player's tactics as an advantage. You got to be kidding right? This was exactly the issue I had with Book5 last week. He did run my character as it was his own, ignoring my tactics and performing some actions that were bad for my character and incomprehenisible to me. He did say he tried to play the character as he would play it, and made my character choose actions that he felt were 'fun', and I believe him. Still, I don't want my characters run that way. I want the Pitlord to run them as I would run them, even if they wouldn't run them that way themselves. And the first and best guideline for running my characters my way is my tactics. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-21-05, 06:57 PM | You got to be kidding right? This was exactly the issue I had with Book5 last week. He did run my character as it was his own, ignoring my tactics and performing some actions that were bad for my character and incomprehenisible to me. He did say he tried to play the character as he would play it, and made my character choose actions that he felt were 'fun', and I believe him. Still, I don't want my characters run that way. I want the Pitlord to run them as I would run them, even if they wouldn't run them that way themselves. And the first and best guideline for running my characters my way is my tactics. Sorry for the confusion. OK, in the event that all hell breaks loose and your tactics are worth nothing and cannot actually be followed, THEN the pitlord should run the character as though it were his own. Sorry for the confusion. I've actually had this happen to me more than once. It happend in a worse respect to a retired member, Arstimis. One guy said (paraphrase), "Your tactics suck and I am going to play the character for you. Ooops, you lost!" Arti complained, the fight was run as per his tactics, and (surprise, surprise) he won. I always include a "If my tactics are just not working and nothing is working out, use your better judgement." The fact is, what is a pitlord supposed to do if the person running is saying, "I want to charge and smash my opponent!" when the opponent is currently flying and out of reach? Sorry for any confusion, but I assumed that since this was the subject we were talking about, it would be obvious. This is another problem I seem to have. Maybe I should pay attention in communications class more often. I don't seem to convey info very well... |
| Usurpator10-21-05, 07:33 PM | Sorry for the confusion. No problem, I guess I took it a bit out of context as well. You just hit a sore spot after the discussion following Kracknol vs. Aramur last week. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-21-05, 07:37 PM | No problem, I guess I took it a bit out of context as well. You just hit a sore spot after the discussion following Kracknol vs. Aramur last week. No worries. We all have had our little issues with how fights are run, and what happened to you is one of the biggest. |
| Begferdeth10-21-05, 09:45 PM | Dalaria vs Ivelios (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561272) is up! This one must have been revenge for me making a character that has 3 allies and then summons more. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 09:49 PM | Dalaria vs Ivelios (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561272) is up! This one must have been revenge for me making a character that has 3 allies and then summons more. :::sending evil mind rays at Begferdeth for making me hack through all those damn allies::: :P Edit: @ Ribking: Tactics received. W00t :w00t: for no double-countout! |
| The Undershadow10-21-05, 10:03 PM | I was hoping you got all your summons off, just to have so many. |
| TelinArtho10-21-05, 10:09 PM | Well if you are going to use summoners, there's some things you'll have to get used to. The first thing is that summoners take full rounds to cast their spells (well their summon spells anyway...). This means in round 2, Ivelios starts to cast, the wolf attacks (and misses), Delaria and Burnt go and THEN the hippogriff is summoned. In round 3, Ivelios starts to cast, and doesn't finish until just before his action in round 4. The sanctuary that Delaria casts is extended, so instead of 3 rounds, it lasts 6 rounds. Delaria would start to cast in round 4, and finish just before her action in round 5. I don't understand what you mean by "too big for improved grab" - the scorpion is medium sized and Ivelios is as well. The hippogriff, according to the fight has 4 rounds of actions - but it will only last three rounds. This means that the full attack it gets on the end actually doesn't happen. Just to clear things up on the grapple, Ivelios has a +1 grapple modifier, while the scorpion has a +2 modifier. I would appreciate if the errors were corrected. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 11:14 PM | Am I correct in assuming that when a character is mounted, the hide and move silently checks it makes uses the mounts' modifiers until such time as he dismounts? |
| TelinArtho10-21-05, 11:20 PM | Kind of - they use the same rolls but their own modifiers. So if the horse's modifiers are lower - they are effectively the modifiers used. Otherwise, if the rider is pretty loud his modifiers will effectively be used. I am not completely sure on this - but that's how I've always DMed it. |
| NiQil10-21-05, 11:30 PM | Kind of - they use the same rolls but their own modifiers. So if the horse's modifiers are lower - they are effectively the modifiers used. Otherwise, if the rider is pretty loud his modifiers will effectively be used. I am not completely sure on this - but that's how I've always DMed it. Is there a reason they would not get their own rolls? Also, what happens when someone casts Mirror Image while mounted? Do mirror images of the mount appear also? Do they just appear in midair riding nothing? Do they appear next to the mount standing? The spell says it only affect you....it says nothing about other creatures. In this case a familiar is also in question, but it can share spells, so this shouldn't be an issue with the familiar. But the mount....<shrug> |
| Snommelp10-21-05, 11:40 PM | A familiar shares the spell. A mount does not. The caster is mirrored in such a way that any of the images could be riding the single mount. |
| King Uther10-22-05, 12:27 AM | @Enterik and Oldmangray Didn't say this before, but both tactics received. FIght will be up Sunday night/Monday morning. Enterik, your gladiator is listed as owned by Sodaguy in the characters thread. |
| NiQil10-22-05, 12:46 AM | Would the Entangle spell affect a creature in flight over the area of effect? Also, are you able to cast Entangle on a location you cannot see, or do you need LOS to that location? |
| Book510-22-05, 01:24 AM | @The Undershadow & Usurpator - tactics recieved. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-22-05, 07:32 AM | Would the Entangle spell affect a creature in flight over the area of effect? Also, are you able to cast Entangle on a location you cannot see, or do you need LOS to that location? No. A flying creature would be unaffected unless he/she is at the same base level (basically ground level) of the spell. No. You require both line of sight and line of effect. -ToK |
| waywreth10-22-05, 08:05 AM | @NiQuil Damn lucky crit! Ah well. One thing about the fight that may make a difference though (I doubt it). while he's color sprayed, he's stunned. A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). Which means no healing, and no attacking, and I get a +2 to hit. With that lack of a potion and additional +2 to hit, I have an outside shot to kill him with all my friends helping. |
| Ribking10-22-05, 09:24 AM | The aforementioned missing tactics fiasco involved myself (Greefe). I deliberately left out default tactics on my character sheet because I thought it may prove to be a liability in some cases.....wanted to always keep my opponent(s) guessing. Although my tactics have always been pretty much the same for each fight....with slight adjustments as per strengths/weaknesses of my opponent. But in a case like this week it seems that not having default tactics could've really screwed over my Pitlord (again, apologies NiQil). Do you think it would be possible to enforce a default tactics rule that made it a requirement for character sheets to include default tactics? Also....I stated in my subject line that I was weaponsmithing 3 MW Throwing Axes, but I think it may have been overlooked because perhaps I did the same thing last week and maybe someone thought I forgot to remove it. Since it is not posted in the Free Actions section of the Character listing this week, then should I assume it didn't happen and I didn't spend the GP to buy the raw materials? |
| SoulLord10-22-05, 11:02 AM | quick question..... What happens to the rider when his mount dies (military saddle)? falls prone? takes falling damage is trapped by his horse is standing up next to his mount no roll needed? |
| Mind Rogue10-22-05, 01:10 PM | quick question..... What happens to the rider when his mount dies (military saddle)? falls prone? takes falling damage is trapped by his horse is standing up next to his mount no roll needed? The rider needs to make a ride check. If he passes, he lands on his feat and takes no falling damage. If he fails, he lands prone and takes 1d6 falling damage. @ NiQil On that last fight, I have a problem with it and I'm not even in it. Not submitting tactics is not an automatic forfeight. Rather, you're supposed to extrapolate tactics from a previous fight (of which he has none) or create some basic tactics. "Find opponent, rage, smash weapon, smash foe" would probably be a suitable tactic to use as would "find opponent and make trip attacks". However, you don't get out of it just because someone didn't write tactics. @ My Players It would be nice if I can get around to your fight today, but it'll probably be done tomorrow. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-22-05, 02:41 PM | The aforementioned missing tactics fiasco involved myself (Greefe). I deliberately left out default tactics on my character sheet because I thought it may prove to be a liability in some cases.....wanted to always keep my opponent(s) guessing. Although my tactics have always been pretty much the same for each fight....with slight adjustments as per strengths/weaknesses of my opponent. But in a case like this week it seems that not having default tactics could've really screwed over my Pitlord (again, apologies NiQil). Do you think it would be possible to enforce a default tactics rule that made it a requirement for character sheets to include default tactics? Also....I stated in my subject line that I was weaponsmithing 3 MW Throwing Axes, but I think it may have been overlooked because perhaps I did the same thing last week and maybe someone thought I forgot to remove it. Since it is not posted in the Free Actions section of the Character listing this week, then should I assume it didn't happen and I didn't spend the GP to buy the raw materials? Actually, we used to enforce a default tactics rule. But what we found is that there was a fair amount of metagaming. What you said before was true: don't list default tactics if you don't want to give away. Or, make them simple. I, for example, say something like, "Go up and hit the person." Let the pitlord make of it what he will. Rule of thumb: If you think you are going to miss submitting tactics on a regular basis, make some defaults. If you think this is a one time only thing, don't bother. Also, most straightforward builds should be easy enough for pitlords to manage. @NiQil: I don't suppose you could just assume that the default tactics are "Rage, trip, kill?" |
| NiQil10-22-05, 03:12 PM | Damn...I hate when the site goes down when you are in the middle of posting things. Ah well. In any event, for those that haven't already chimed in, both Torgirr Hammerstriker vs Casgish Darath and Greefe vs Led Skullfighter are up. @ Wayreth Blinded and stunned apply the same penalty....-2 to AC and no Dex to AC...and blind also gives everyone else a 50% miss chance. The penalties for being blinded/stunned are already there. And yea.....like I said...you luck went from great to good to abyssmal in a hurry. @ Mind Rogue Per the conversation that was had yesterday (go back a couple of pages if you would like to read it in it's entirety), ToK pointed out that Rules thread do not require you to run a fight without submitted tactics. They do encourage it, but they do not require it. Had Led had default tactics, I would have used them. Had he responded to my reminder that I needed tactics, I would have waited as long as I could have. But with no tactics of any kind, and no response to my PM, I am perfectly within my right to throw in the towel for him. That is what was discussed yesterday. @ Ribking You got your tactics in on time...and that is all that matters. I asked some questions yesterday (again, see the conversation a couple of pages back), because I hadn't heard from either you or Emrys Donovan. But you got them in on time, and that is all that matters. :) @ One Winged Angel Unfortunately, as I have stated a couple of times this week, if I can't get my fights done Saturday morning, I have no guaranteed time to do them otherwise. That is why I am always reminding my fighters to get tactics in on time. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-22-05, 03:48 PM | @ One Winged Angel Unfortunately, as I have stated a couple of times this week, if I can't get my fights done Saturday morning, I have no guaranteed time to do them otherwise. That is why I am always reminding my fighters to get tactics in on time. Ah. At least you have a good reason. I've heard such good reasons as (not exactly, but basic drift), "I don't feel like making up tactics." |
| Mind Rogue10-22-05, 05:10 PM | Damn...I hate when the site goes down when you are in the middle of posting things. Ah well. In any event, for those that haven't already chimed in, both Torgirr Hammerstriker vs Casgish Darath and Greefe vs Led Skullfighter are up. @ Wayreth Blinded and stunned apply the same penalty....-2 to AC and no Dex to AC...and blind also gives everyone else a 50% miss chance. The penalties for being blinded/stunned are already there. And yea.....like I said...you luck went from great to good to abyssmal in a hurry. @ Mind Rogue Per the conversation that was had yesterday (go back a couple of pages if you would like to read it in it's entirety), ToK pointed out that Rules thread do not require you to run a fight without submitted tactics. They do encourage it, but they do not require it. Had Led had default tactics, I would have used them. Had he responded to my reminder that I needed tactics, I would have waited as long as I could have. But with no tactics of any kind, and no response to my PM, I am perfectly within my right to throw in the towel for him. That is what was discussed yesterday. @ Ribking You got your tactics in on time...and that is all that matters. I asked some questions yesterday (again, see the conversation a couple of pages back), because I hadn't heard from either you or Emrys Donovan. But you got them in on time, and that is all that matters. :) @ One Winged Angel Unfortunately, as I have stated a couple of times this week, if I can't get my fights done Saturday morning, I have no guaranteed time to do them otherwise. That is why I am always reminding my fighters to get tactics in on time. Actually, you still do have to run the fight. Players are supposed to send their tactics as early as possible. If you did not receive tactics until friday, write send a PM or email to the player and remind him of that. Sometimes there are email mistakes, or other misunderstandings and this note will help to prevent bad feelings afterwards. If you still didn't get tactics until saturday and after informing the player, you may begin to run the fight by default tactics (which are normally written somewhere on the character sheet). If there aren't any default tactics on the sheet, then either use one or two tactics from past fights as a guideline, or improvise and play the character according to his character with basic tactics (nothing complicated). This says to improvise tactics. Nowhere does it say that the player forfeights the match. |
| Snommelp10-22-05, 05:56 PM | Tan vs. Haizan is technically finished. However, I won't post it without rewards. How does a Riding Dog effect rewards in ECL 3? 12.5%? |
| Huan10-22-05, 05:56 PM | @Poe the Great Tactics recieved, thank you. @LLMadCow No tactics recieved yet, I'm afraid. |
| Usurpator10-22-05, 06:14 PM | Balbanes vs. Grik (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7567132) is finished. Will Gladius see another upset by a defeat of a top 5 gladiator? Go on over to the battles thread and look for yourself. |
| Snommelp10-22-05, 06:25 PM | Balbanes vs. Grik (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7567132) is finished. Will Gladius see another upset by a defeat of a top 5 gladiator? Go on over to the battles thread and look for yourself. Round 20, you forgot to add the 12 damage that Luk Bo dealt. Also, while conceding might have been the smart thing to do, Grik's not smart. If you don't want to keep the fight going, I understand (it is a rather long fight, even as is), but it's not in Grik's personality to give up. He also isn't technically out of ranged weapons; melee weapons can be thrown at a -4 penalty. EDIT: regardless of whether you choose to continue the fight, I'd like to know how many arrows Grik used, and how many of the misses are salvageable. |
| Usurpator10-22-05, 06:45 PM | Round 20, you forgot to add the 12 damage that Luk Bo dealt. Also, while conceding might have been the smart thing to do, Grik's not smart. If you don't want to keep the fight going, I understand (it is a rather long fight, even as is), but it's not in Grik's personality to give up. He also isn't technically out of ranged weapons; melee weapons can be thrown at a -4 penalty. I'll see what I can do. I didn't see it as a smart thing, but more because he was heartbroken because LukBo was destroyed...... if that helps. EDIT: regardless of whether you choose to continue the fight, I'd like to know how many arrows Grik used, and how many of the misses are salvageable. Half. Half of the misses are salvagable. Good that you bring this up, because I often see Pitlords rolling for each arrow separately, but I always wondered if it is really that important? We are talking about a few coppers more or less. I always use the rule of thumb that half save (rounded up), once you get beyond 20 arrows used in your career, it won't matter much more than one or two one way or the other. If someone is firing an expensive arrow of slaying, I'm happy to roll the dice. But with regular ammunition, don't see the use really. |
| Snommelp10-22-05, 07:44 PM | I'll see what I can do. I didn't see it as a smart thing, but more because he was heartbroken because LukBo was destroyed...... if that helps. Heartbroken? Maybe in an ordinary campaign, but not in a world where Grik's seen his broken weapons magically restore themselves. I'd imagine he'd be more angry than anything. Like I said before, though, if you don't want to continue the fight, you don't have to, since Grik's probably dead at this point anyway. I just can't imagine an orc surrendering, nor a barbarian. Half. Half of the misses are salvagable. Good that you bring this up, because I often see Pitlords rolling for each arrow separately, but I always wondered if it is really that important? We are talking about a few coppers more or less. I always use the rule of thumb that half save (rounded up), once you get beyond 20 arrows used in your career, it won't matter much more than one or two one way or the other. If someone is firing an expensive arrow of slaying, I'm happy to roll the dice. But with regular ammunition, don't see the use really.Yeah, it's really not important, but I personally like to be meticulous with my record keeping so that there aren't problems later. EDIT: If you do decide to continue the fight, you now have Grik dealing too much damage in round 20. Balbanes should be at 20 hp. |
| Snommelp10-22-05, 07:49 PM | Tan vs. Haizan is up. The fight ended before the fight ended, if you get my meaning. I'd appreciate it if someone could double-check the rewards to make sure I did it right. |
| Book510-22-05, 08:50 PM | Tan vs. Haizan is up. The fight ended before the fight ended, if you get my meaning. I'd appreciate it if someone could double-check the rewards to make sure I did it right. Well Done! Thanks Snommelp! MAN! One hit wonder! Silly wizards. That cinches it - before I buy any magic weapons - enhanced optics! Note: I think you miscalculated Tan's AC with that scorching ray... not that a 15 saves his hide from a 32 - just noted: (+1 size, +4 shield) - or 11 if the shield is facing the wrong way. Rasafrasin true strike(Sp)! |
| Snommelp10-22-05, 08:54 PM | Well Done! Thanks Snommelp! MAN! One hit wonder! Silly wizards. That cinches it - before I buy any magic weapons - enhanced optics! Note: I think you miscalculated Tan's AC with that scorching ray... not that a 15 saves his hide from a 32 - just noted: (+1 size, +4 shield) - or 11 if the shield is facing the wrong way. Rasafrasin true strike(Sp)! You're right, it should be 11; it's a touch attack against a (small) flat-footed character. I'll change it, even though it doesn't effect the fight; I like things to be squared away. |
| TelinArtho10-22-05, 08:55 PM | A riding dog is a CR 1 creature - so for a 3rd level gladiator it is a 25% penalty just like the light warhorse. |
| Enterik10-22-05, 09:16 PM | @Enterik and Oldmangray Didn't say this before, but both tactics received. FIght will be up Sunday night/Monday morning. Enterik, your gladiator is listed as owned by Sodaguy in the characters thread. Yeah, I know, but what can I do about it? |
| Snommelp10-22-05, 09:18 PM | A riding dog is a CR 1 creature - so for a 3rd level gladiator it is a 25% penalty just like the light warhorse. Fix'd. |
| Book510-22-05, 10:55 PM | Yeah, I know, but what can I do about it? Quote and Repost? Who is SodaGuy? You in "another life?" |
| waywreth10-22-05, 11:56 PM | @ Wayreth Blinded and stunned apply the same penalty....-2 to AC and no Dex to AC...and blind also gives everyone else a 50% miss chance. The penalties for being blinded/stunned are already there. And yea.....like I said...you luck went from great to good to abyssmal in a hurry. NiQuil - Correct, but round 13 he used a potion to heal - as he was stunned he cannot do that. So, he gains a potion back. I don't know if that will make a difference in the fight, but since he'll be down 8 hps, perhaps. At the least he gains a potion. Thanks for the audit, I think you're off on the gold (which I was off too), but I'll check it out tomorrow and fix it up. |
| Sunwolf10-23-05, 01:06 AM | I was inspired to write a story for the Brilf vs Erinyes fight. Enjoy. @Tok maybe you could post the story with the fight. ************* "... So the psionic energy conduit in Lower Merx would be the ideal site to place our new guild house. The recent political shake up has given us a unique window of opportunity to sieze this valuable resource." The Guildmaster of the fledgling PSI Consortium gazed thoughtfully at a scrap of parchment held in his hands. "The rise of the new guilds in Gladius will make the future a quite interesting time. If you succeed in this important task, you will place the PSI Consortium on the path to dominance in the political landscape of Gladius. As you, Brilf, are the most powerful psi operative we have currently, I am asking you to secure the conduit. What say you?" Brilf gave a brief bow, "As you command, it shall be done." The Guildmaster handed Brilf an ornamented stone on a chain and a rose colored cube about 3 fingers wide. "This is a locator talisman. The closer you get to the conduit the bluer this stone will become. The talisman will begin flashing repeatedly once you are close enough to activate this psionic anchor. Press on these spots to activate the anchor. The anchor will take about an hour to fully claim the conduit for us. Once it has claimed the conduit will disappear and you will have succeeded. However, it will not work if there exists another anchor at the conduit. You must protect our anchor until it fully works and destroy any other partially activated anchors at the site. Hurry. Our thoughts will be with you." Brilf bowed again and departed to follow the locator talisman. ****** At the psionic conduit, Seynire Ery, set her anchor and began to wait impatiently for it to complete its work. *I hope this squad is more competent than the last one I got,* she mused about her guards stationed outside. *Securing this conduit is the next step to gaining the power that my Masters need to gain control of this accursed Nimbus guarded city.* She smiled maliciously, *And once They get what They want, I get what I want.* She amused herself with her future plans to pass the time till her mission was complete. ****** Brilf followed the locator to a nondesript office building on a nondescript street in Lower Merx. He noted the guards surrounding the building even though they were trying to blend in to the surroundings. It wasn't much trouble to get past them by jumping to the building's roof from a nearby roof. To give the guards credit, no ordinary man could have made that leap. One wonders why they were only guarding against ordinary men. As he snuck into the building, Brilf noted that someone had set a psychic ward on the roof entrance. *Someone skilled is here. I hope I am not too late,* he thought as he carefully bypassed the ward and entered the building. He began preparing for the encounter that was sure to follow as he hurried forward. Brilf set inertial dampers and screens of force around his person as he crept closer. Calling on his inner well of power, he bypassed his body's normal safeguards to allow his muscles to burn energy at increased efficiency and strength for a short time. Lastly, he retrieve a vial of oil that had cost him a pretty penny up in the Arkhein District. 'Bahamat's Blessing' it was called and was touted near and far by the paladins in Arkhein as a powerful force amplifier. Its only drawback was that its properties were tuned for best efficiency against those of the lower planes and those with Darkness in their souls. Odds were that it would work quite well for his purposes. ****** Seynire Ery jerked as her psychic ward on the roof shifted. Whomever had bypassed it had not sensed the positional key that she had also placed on the ward. It was but a matter of minutes until her anchor completed its work. A grim smile crossed her face as she set her defenses. A pain damper to allow her to function beyond her normal capacity, a film of irredescant armor skin that flowed over her enchanted mail, and a distortion field to make targeting her more difficult comprised her primary preparations. *It has been too long since I had a proper challenge. Sigh. But I am not being paid to be foolish...* She sent a mental tendril towards her guards. Seynire snarled as her mental tendril meet a barrier. The intruder had placed a telepathic block on the building. She couldn't call out mentally and the stone walls were too thick for other noise to escape. *Perhaps, I will have challenge after all* she thought as the intruder entered the vaulted chamber where she stood. ****** Brilf saw that the woman's anchor was starting to fade. He had only a few minutes before the conduit was lost. While he scanned her defenses, Brilf said,"No help will be coming. I am afraid that your claim to this conduit has just been canceled." *Impressive defenses indeed! Almost impenetrable but %there% is the flaw...* He triggered a temporary growth crystal and sprang forward. As Brilf moved forward he nearly doubled in size. Confident in her defenses, Seynire scoffed,"I don't need help to deal with the likes of you!" In an instant, she formed three flaming psychic darts and cast them at Brilf. One dart splintered on shifting screens of force. The second dart was batted away by Brilf's lightning fast hand. Unfortunately for Brilf, the third dart embedded itself in his left shoulder numbing most of his left arm. Seynire's eyes widened at the deflected dart and even more when Brilf crashed into her and started to crack her ribs in a bear hug. *Two can play that game. He will be unhappily surprized after I show him the power of my muscle grafts.* Seynire landed two quick blows to Brilf's wounded shoulder but the pressure on her ribs kept increasing. Trying again and again she tried to strike Brilf's shoulder but was ineffectual. However, she definately felt and heard two of her ribs crack. With a scream of desperation, Seynire called on her inner reserves and translocated herself to the adjoining chamber to escape Brilf's deadly grasp. Knowing that his shoulder would give way soon due the strain being put on it, Brilf slapped on a quick heal patch to hold the shoulder together. Glancing at the fading anchor, he hurried to the next room to end this combat one way or another. As Brilf rounded the corner, Seynire cast two more flaming darts only to see one splinter on Brilf's defenses and the other get batted away by Brilf's still functional right hand. A couple more strides and a deft move later, Brilf was again applying punishing pressure on Seynire's ribs and spine. Seeing an opening, Seynire dislocated Brilf's left shoulder and broke two ribs in three rapid blows. Eyes watering from pain, Brilf still managed to snake his right arm around Seynire's neck and snap it. Brilf staggered back to the conduit and retrieved that enemy anchor. A well placed blow shattered the device. Brilf set his anchor and gathered the fallen woman's gear. ****** There is a saying heard in various parts of Gladius -- "You get what you paid for..." Seyrine Ery's guards never reported back to their base. A string of office buildings on a nondescript street in Lower Merx had more repair work than was usual for this time of year. Rumors in Lower Merx say that the Psi Consortium set up shop somewhere in the district. |
| Snommelp10-23-05, 01:31 AM | Flamehair vs. Alexi is up. It's a long fight when both characters decide to be overly cautious. Most fights I run are over in ten rounds or so... |
| Usurpator10-23-05, 05:39 AM | Flamehair vs. Alexi is up. It's a long fight when both characters decide to be overly cautious. Most fights I run are over in ten rounds or so... Flamehair was cautious, but not as cautious as you made her out to be: Once he engages in melee or Flamehair can start melee herself, loose (move action, but free during regular move) and the drop shield (free action), grab heavy flail with both hands and use trip attacks. In round 3, Flamehair can engage melee by charging, yet you don't make her charge. You later even say Flamehair is using an ineffective tactic and try to use a stone for cover, I agree. That's why I stated the above in my tactics. Flamehair should charge in round 4, as per my tactics. So I'll appreciate if you could edit it, because as you stated, she is now walking around like a sitting duck. The idea was that if he need to hit me, he should move around my tower shield line, and probably open himself up to a charge. If he didn't move around the tower shield line, just keep following and let his buffs run out. I also stated: Main Tactics The idea is to engage Alexi in melee and trip him. So that's twice that I stated it, once in my intention, and once as specific action. So I kindly request a rerun from round 4. I agree running it like this is stupid, and was never my intention. Also, Alexi has to actively countertrip after a failed trip roll, its not if Flamehair loses the initial tripping roll, she is automatically countertripped, you have to do a second roll, and if that fails, then drop the flail. If you have any suggestions to make my tactics clearer in this department, I'll be glad to hear it, because I hate for a Pitlord to run a very long battle because of misread tactics. EDIT: Before it gets lost in all the comments, thank you for running it! There is no need to edit the fight if you feel you didn't overlook anything in my tactics and took the above sentences I quoted into account. I do ask that if you need to improvise tactics, you do so for both gladiators equally. My 'tower shield full cover' tactics totally negated his 'stay at very long range and throw mindblades' tactic. You decided to improvise by making him close, which was against his stated tactics. However, in this situation I feel that your improvisation was perfectly acceptable. Your improvisation did effectively negate my tactics, especially the way you played Flamehair (totally defensively). When Pitlord's improvise tactics for one party I expect an equal improvisation in return if neccessary. Obviously, I cannot tell you what to do, it wouldn't be fair for me to suggest tactics in hindsight. EDIT2: Just posted in the tavern (I am learning about Tower Shield as I go along as well.) Flamehair should be at AC 27 when Alexi rolls a 19 to hit her in round 3/4. Because Alexi has -2 from range, the attack would miss.... EDIT3: I see you managed to close to melee range in round 9, but Alexi withdraws. I have no idea why you make Flamehair run to catch up, since she obviously can't. If you do choose to fight very defensively, picking up the tower shield would be the appropriate tactic. If you can explain your decision for the ineffectual running to me, please do. (especially as she somehow only realizes later that she can't catch up and actually returns to the tower shield. Flamehair is not mentally challenged). |
| NiQil10-23-05, 05:43 AM | Actually, you still do have to run the fight. This says to improvise tactics. Nowhere does it say that the player forfeights the match. I have to ask...did you read the preceding conversation regarding this topic? I ask, because, as ToK pointed out in the quote you posted ...you MAY begin with default tactics....you don't have to. It's right there in the quote you profided. You are certainly encouraged to use default tactics, and if there were some, I'd be more than happy to use them. But there weren't, and I, quite frankly, have no qualms about forfeiting a match for someone who didn't take the time to send tactics, or even advise that they would be late. And this is not the first week this has happened in fights. It has happened the last couple of weeks to various fighters.....one of my characters actually won a fight a couple of weeks ago because the other person never sent tactics, so it was forfeited in this same manner. So it's not like the first time this has happened. If there is an issue with this procedure, I'm sure Cat will make an announcement to that effect. But there hasn't been one in the preceding weeks that this has happened. And that's all the further I am willing to discuss this topic. If this is an issue, Cat can address it with me personally. |
| Usurpator10-23-05, 09:11 AM | Heartbroken? Maybe in an ordinary campaign, but not in a world where Grik's seen his broken weapons magically restore themselves. I'd imagine he'd be more angry than anything. Like I said before, though, if you don't want to continue the fight, you don't have to, since Grik's probably dead at this point anyway. I just can't imagine an orc surrendering, nor a barbarian. Edited the fight. It lasted for another 11 rounds now (primarily due to Balbanes defensive tactics), during which Grik couldn't make a single attack. |
| Mind Rogue10-23-05, 10:52 AM | Flamehair was cautious, but not as cautious as you made her out to be: In round 3, Flamehair can engage melee by charging, yet you don't make her charge. You later even say Flamehair is using an ineffective tactic and try to use a stone for cover, I agree. That's why I stated the above in my tactics. Flamehair should charge in round 4, as per my tactics. So I'll appreciate if you could edit it, because as you stated, she is now walking around like a sitting duck. The idea was that if he need to hit me, he should move around my tower shield line, and probably open himself up to a charge. If he didn't move around the tower shield line, just keep following and let his buffs run out. I also stated: So that's twice that I stated it, once in my intention, and once as specific action. So I kindly request a rerun from round 4. I agree running it like this is stupid, and was never my intention. Also, Alexi has to actively countertrip after a failed trip roll, its not if Flamehair loses the initial tripping roll, she is automatically countertripped, you have to do a second roll, and if that fails, then drop the flail. If you have any suggestions to make my tactics clearer in this department, I'll be glad to hear it, because I hate for a Pitlord to run a very long battle because of misread tactics. EDIT: Before it gets lost in all the comments, thank you for running it! There is no need to edit the fight if you feel you didn't overlook anything in my tactics and took the above sentences I quoted into account. I do ask that if you need to improvise tactics, you do so for both gladiators equally. My 'tower shield full cover' tactics totally negated his 'stay at very long range and throw mindblades' tactic. You decided to improvise by making him close, which was against his stated tactics. However, in this situation I feel that your improvisation was perfectly acceptable. Your improvisation did effectively negate my tactics, especially the way you played Flamehair (totally defensively). When Pitlord's improvise tactics for one party I expect an equal improvisation in return if neccessary. Obviously, I cannot tell you what to do, it wouldn't be fair for me to suggest tactics in hindsight. EDIT2: Just posted in the tavern (I am learning about Tower Shield as I go along as well.) Flamehair should be at AC 27 when Alexi rolls a 19 to hit her in round 3/4. Because Alexi has -2 from range, the attack would miss.... EDIT3: I see you managed to close to melee range in round 9, but Alexi withdraws. I have no idea why you make Flamehair run to catch up, since she obviously can't. If you do choose to fight very defensively, picking up the tower shield would be the appropriate tactic. If you can explain your decision for the ineffectual running to me, please do. (especially as she somehow only realizes later that she can't catch up and actually returns to the tower shield. Flamehair is not mentally challenged). Most of what he said, except for a few things: Her tactics look like she wants to move towards me and loose the shield and then attack, which limits Flamehair to only 20' of movement (no charge). However, in round 4, they are actually close enough that Flamehair could do precisely that. When Flamehair fails her trip attack, Alexi needs to make a trip attempt to wrench the flail away from her. For this one, Alexi's improved trip feat does count and Flamehair's doesn't because it is Alexi doing the tripping. And not that it would matter, but Alexi has improved disarm too, so it all makes sense. Also, when she uses her shield for cover, she looses the AC bonus it normally provides, so when being attacked from where it only provides normal cover, it is only a +4 bonus to AC for providing cover. If Alexi can get all the way around to your rear, it provides no bonus, because you're focusing on making it be entirely on one side of you. Thanks for running the fight. The dice apparently where with me, which makes up for me rolling double 1s during my gaming session last night twice. Apparently neither displacer beasts nor barbarian wereboars are capable of hitting anything. |
| Usurpator10-23-05, 11:36 AM | Most of what he said, except for a few things: Her tactics look like she wants to move towards me and loose the shield and then attack, which limits Flamehair to only 20' of movement (no charge). However, in round 4, they are actually close enough that Flamehair could do precisely that. I don't know, but I thought it was more like 25-30 ft., because it included some diagonal squares. Funny, you are arguing to my advantage, and I am arguing to your advantage :) EDIT, just checked, it's only after my move that Flamehair ends up within 20 ft., so no attacks for Flamehair there. Also, when she uses her shield for cover, she looses the AC bonus it normally provides, so when being attacked from where it only provides normal cover, it is only a +4 bonus to AC for providing cover. If Alexi can get all the way around to your rear, it provides no bonus, because you're focusing on making it be entirely on one side of you. I can imagine that's true, it makes sense. Where does it say though that you lose your shield bonus? EDIT: I do see that Flamehair didn't take an attack in round 7, while she still has a standard action left (single move, loose shield during move (free), drop shield (free), put two hands on flail(free). Why doesn't she attack? What does she do with the standard action that she has left? |
| Luni10-23-05, 12:16 PM | This massive wooden shield is nearly as tall as you are. In most situations, it provides the indicated shield bonus to your AC. However, you can instead use it as total cover, though you must give up your attacks to do so. Says right under the description that you lose the shield bonus if you want to use it for cover. |
| Mind Rogue10-23-05, 12:26 PM | I don't know, but I thought it was more like 25-30 ft., because it included some diagonal squares. Funny, you are arguing to my advantage, and I am arguing to your advantage :) EDIT, just checked, it's only after my move that Flamehair ends up within 20 ft., so no attacks for Flamehair there. I can imagine that's true, it makes sense. Where does it say though that you lose your shield bonus? EDIT: I do see that Flamehair didn't take an attack in round 7, while she still has a standard action left (single move, loose shield during move (free), drop shield (free), put two hands on flail(free). Why doesn't she attack? What does she do with the standard action that she has left? It is kind of funny that you're arguing for me and I for you. The thing about Scouts and Church is they instill these things called morals in you that just seem to always get in the way. |
| Luni10-23-05, 01:22 PM | Can crovax turn around his losing ways? Find out here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7572446&postcount=535) |
| Mind Rogue10-23-05, 01:32 PM | Devolved vs Wolfcaller is up. Don't be surprised if either of you end up in the prison very soon. |
| Snommelp10-23-05, 01:42 PM | All right, let's see what problems I can answer... Round 4: you said to drop the shield while closing to melee range. Can't charge in round 4 and do that. Counter-trip: I misread your tactics. I thought you wanted to drop the flail to prevent the chance of a counter-trip. I'll fix it. Improvised tactics: his tactics say to "stay out of melee for as long as possible." I did that, so there was no improvisation. Also, I did improvise your tactics rather early in the fight, all things considered. You left behind your tower shield in round 7 to increase mobility after it proved ineffective. In some fights, that might be considered late, but this fight lasted over 20 rounds. After the first three attacks, I improvised while staying as close to your tactics as possible. After two more, I improvised further. AC Round 3/4: Your AC in round 3 is 23 (10+8 armor+1 dex+4 cover). In round 4, you have no cover, making it 19. If you use the shield for cover, you lose the AC bonus. Also, in round 3, the 19! is a 19 without modifiers, notated that way because it is a critical threat. Round 9/10: Since Flamehair realized that the shield wasn't working, she was trying to attack without it. Once she saw that her foe had slowed down again, I reverted her to her main tactic. Round 7: Flamehair double-moved (note that it's from -3 to 2, not -3 to -2 or 3 to 2). Therefore, no standard action. I believe that covers all points of contention, yes? If you have any other arguments, post them, please. If not, I'll edit in the counter-trip roll and be done with it. |
| TelinArtho10-23-05, 01:45 PM | Well if you are going to use summoners, there's some things you'll have to get used to. The first thing is that summoners take full rounds to cast their spells (well their summon spells anyway...). This means in round 2, Ivelios starts to cast, the wolf attacks (and misses), Delaria and Burnt go and THEN the hippogriff is summoned. In round 3, Ivelios starts to cast, and doesn't finish until just before his action in round 4. The sanctuary that Delaria casts is extended, so instead of 3 rounds, it lasts 6 rounds. Delaria would start to cast in round 4, and finish just before her action in round 5. I don't understand what you mean by "too big for improved grab" - the scorpion is medium sized and Ivelios is as well. The hippogriff, according to the fight has 4 rounds of actions - but it will only last three rounds. This means that the full attack it gets on the end actually doesn't happen. Just to clear things up on the grapple, Ivelios has a +1 grapple modifier, while the scorpion has a +2 modifier. I would appreciate if the errors were corrected. Still waiting for Begferdeth to come back on and fix the errors and I've noticed a few more things: 1. When doubling the damage of anything (including dive attacks), you double the number of dice rolled, not the result of the original set. 2. Since pushing Gilbert is a move action, if Ivelios doesn't start with that action before summoning in round 3, Gilbert will not be able to attack Burnt until the order is given. If it is given beforehand, Ivelios gives up a standard action to start the full round casting on round 3 and the standard action in round 4 - meaning he won't be able to fire that round. 3. In round 2, Ivelios drops a scimitar that wasn't in his hands in order to cast. Since this wasn't in his hands, I wonder if this was meant to be the bow - and if it was, then he can't attack with it in round 4 anyway. However, I don't see anything that would prevent him from casting with the bow in hand, so I suspect this is just a mistake all around. 4. According to Ivelios's tactics, Ivelios should've spent a round casting guidance before taking a shot at Delaria. This is of minor point, but since there is no reason why she wouldn't have done it (she wasn't threatened any less by firing into melee 5. The damage from the pot shot may or may not be right (without looking at a roller to see it was 1d8-1 or just 1d8). It should be 1d8-1. Also the range on that shot is exactly 100ft - so he should take a -2 to hit from it. However, I'm not sure where the animals are before he fires - so they may create soft cover - you need to update the locations in that round so I can tell. |
| SoulLord10-23-05, 01:45 PM | Alac Rensellaer (Pauper) Power: 1113 vs Lissa Longfellow (MysticMonk2005) Power: 1316 fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7572541&postcount=536) |
| TelinArtho10-23-05, 01:47 PM | AC Round 3/4: Your AC in round 3 is 23 (10+8 armor+1 dex+4 cover). In round 4, you have no cover, making it 19. If you use the shield for cover, you lose the AC bonus. Also, in round 3, the 19! is a 19 without modifiers, notated that way because it is a critical threat. Not sure if this bears noting for you or not, but while a natural 19 may threaten for some weapons, it is not an auto-hit like a 20 is. I assume the bonuses for this character would've been enough to cover it - but I wanted to make sure you knew this. |
| Snommelp10-23-05, 02:01 PM | Not sure if this bears noting for you or not, but while a natural 19 may threaten for some weapons, it is not an auto-hit like a 20 is. I assume the bonuses for this character would've been enough to cover it - but I wanted to make sure you knew this. I did forget that... however, in this fight that would be 19+8-2 range=25 vs. AC 23. Still hits. Thanks, though. I'll remember next time. |
| Snommelp10-23-05, 02:12 PM | Edited the fight. It lasted for another 11 rounds now (primarily due to Balbanes defensive tactics), during which Grik couldn't make a single attack. Thanks, and sorry for making you edit it. It just seems more right this way... thanks again. |
| Enterik10-23-05, 02:19 PM | Devolved (Enterik) vs Wolfcaller (Poe) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7572172&postcount=534) @Mind Rogue: Sigh...here I am again, disputing the match because I am forced to put my skill totals at -7 to reflect the fact that Devolved is equipped with a tower shield just in case his opponent favors ranged attacks. However, my tactics indicated that Devolved would not be carrying his shield. This would put his round one move silently check at 13+3dex-20run=-4. The difference is 17 which means there are 9 possible locations for Devolved, he may be hit by chance, but he is not pinpointed. In round 3 (and all attacks thereafter) Devolved suffers a mysterious -2 penalty to hit, which must also reflect your belief that Devolved was carrying his Tower Shield (possibly from my opponent's tactics?). It wouldn't matter in round 3, but the round 5 grapple attack would have succeeded (note also Snowfang's bite would have hit due to Devolved's reduced AC). In round 4 it becomes clear that even though Devolved intends full grapple attacks once Wolfcaller is grappled, he is still only getting one claws worth of grapple attacks. I assume the second claw is missing because you (incorrectly) believe Devolved is holding the Tower Shield, but the bite grappling attack was not rolled. Also, I don't think Devolved should suffer the -4 penalty for natural attacks used within a grapple because he is using natrual attacks for grappling, which shouldn't suffer that penalty. In every round where Devolved is grappling he should also get another claw attack and a bite attack. By virtue of his multiattack feat. Even if you thought Devolved was carrying his shield, which he didn't, he'd still get bite attacks each round upon Wolfcaller. So in summation, Devolved will probably avoid the lightning bolt in round 2 and go straight to grapple in round 3, and thereafter make multiple (grapple) attacks each round. @Caterane: Shouldn't there be some official CoCo ruling (perhaps in the rules themself) on the point of using natural attacks for lethal grappling as opposed to using natural attacks within a grapple? It seems like every match Devolved attempts to grapple the issue must be revisited. |
| Usurpator10-23-05, 02:36 PM | All right, let's see what problems I can answer... Round 4: you said to drop the shield while closing to melee range. Can't charge in round 4 and do that. Done, no argument from me. However, that could have been a chance for an improvisation from you similar to where you ignored the 'stay as far away as possible' from Alexi's tactics, since that wasn't going to work as well. Counter-trip: I misread your tactics. I thought you wanted to drop the flail to prevent the chance of a counter-trip. I'll fix it. OK. Improvised tactics: his tactics say to "stay out of melee for as long as possible." I did that, so there was no improvisation. He also said: "I can throw the mind blade up to 150 ft, so definitely try to stay as far away as possible". But that doesn't matter, since I was perfectly fine with the way you handled it. Also, I did improvise your tactics rather early in the fight, all things considered. You left behind your tower shield in round 7 to increase mobility after it proved ineffective. In some fights, that might be considered late, but this fight lasted over 20 rounds. After the first three attacks, I improvised while staying as close to your tactics as possible. After two more, I improvised further. Dropping the tower shield does not increase mobility or chances of getting into melee with Alexi, so that is not an argument for choosing this improvisation. It's an improvisation that worsens Flamehair's predicament. Using a powerstone of skate might have worked, but I am perfectly fine with you not using the powerstone, since I think that would probably have to be in my tactics. There are also other options, but as said, I cannot provide them, since that would be unfair. AC Round 3/4: Your AC in round 3 is 23 (10+8 armor+1 dex+4 cover). In round 4, you have no cover, making it 19. If you use the shield for cover, you lose the AC bonus. Also, in round 3, the 19! is a 19 without modifiers, notated that way because it is a critical threat. Got it. I understood the natural 19, totalling 27, if I did get the shield bonus, Alexi would hit 25, which would miss. But since I don't get the shield bonus, it's a hit vs. AC 23. I do have cover though (just not total cover) since the line from his center to my center crosses through my corner. Round 9/10: Since Flamehair realized that the shield wasn't working, she was trying to attack without it. Once she saw that her foe had slowed down again, I reverted her to her main tactic. Flamehair knows what Skate does. She might even recognize that Alexi is using it (Psicraft). As said before, dropping the shield does not make one faster, just more vulnerable. I think this is the only serious issue left, the other issues are minor and not worthy of an edit or rerun by themselves. I am fine with you staying with the original tactics until Flamehair dies (but it should begin to work once the skate expires) or improvising an effective tactic. But I think running shieldless towards a faster opponent is just plain stupid and not an acceptable improvisation. Round 7: Flamehair double-moved (note that it's from -3 to 2, not -3 to -2 or 3 to 2). Therefore, no standard action. Got it. Was confused by all the coordinates (those at the end round 8 and 9 are even the same, I don't think that's right). Really appreciate maps in such cases. I'm not going to come up with new arguments even if I find new ones them after this, the arguing has to stop sometime. |
| Luni10-23-05, 02:54 PM | @Caterane/Pittbull: I'll edit the fight tonight, when I am done work. @begferdeth/Myrrdin: I'll start your fight tomorrow. Sorry for the delay. |
| Snommelp10-23-05, 03:16 PM | Dropping the tower shield does not increase mobility or chances of getting into melee with Alexi, so that is not an argument for choosing this improvisation. It's an improvisation that worsens Flamehair's predicament. Using a powerstone of skate might have worked, but I am perfectly fine with you not using the powerstone, since I think that would probably have to be in my tactics. There are also other options, but as said, I cannot provide them, since that would be unfair. The way the tower shield was being used, you had to use a standard action every turn. That brought your speed down to 20 maximum. Dropping the shield (which I determined a better tactic because you wanted to swing two-handed) increased your maximum speed to 40, 60 if you had a straight line. If you'd like, I can switch it so that you use the shield as a shield instead of cover when you would have dropped it, but I don't think it will change the outcome. I am loathe to use expendables unless they're mentioned in tactics, because in the past there were complaints when pitlords improvised by using expendables. It increased the chances of that character winning, yes, but if that character still lost, the player often complained about losing money. |
| Snommelp10-23-05, 03:17 PM | Got it. Was confused by all the coordinates (those at the end round 8 and 9 are even the same, I don't think that's right). Really appreciate maps in such cases. Really? I'll have to fix rounds 8 and 9, then... I would use maps, but the only way I know how to post them involves having a website first, which I do not. EDIT: Taking a quick look at the fight, using the shield as a shield rather than cover (which is the best improvisation I can think of for you) has absolutely no effect on the fight. The one attack that hit after you dropped the shield was a 23. With the shield, your AC is... 23. The end result stands. I also edited in the counter-trip. Alexi got a 21 to Flamehair's 15. The flail is still dropped. |
| Usurpator10-23-05, 03:25 PM | The way the tower shield was being used, you had to use a standard action every turn. That brought your speed down to 20 maximum. Dropping the shield (which I determined a better tactic because you wanted to swing two-handed) increased your maximum speed to 40, 60 if you had a straight line. If you'd like, I can switch it so that you use the shield as a shield instead of cover when you would have dropped it, but I don't think it will change the outcome. The only thing I am saying is that dropping the shield doesn't gain Flamehair any advantage, since you can make double moves with a shield as well. Since Alexi can just withdraw (he did it before) it would be pointless to run shieldless after him (as shown in the battle). Either stick to my original tactics and get an opportunity to close after the Skate has run out or improvise an acceptable alternative tactic. I am afraid I cannot help you here for the sake of fairness. Still, the crit in the end will probably decide the battle in Alexi's favor regardless, as you pointed out. I am loathe to use expendables unless they're mentioned in tactics, because in the past there were complaints when pitlords improvised by using expendables. It increased the chances of that character winning, yes, but if that character still lost, the player often complained about losing money. I agree completely. |
| Snommelp10-23-05, 03:35 PM | Methinks I edited while you posted... here's what my edit said, for your convenience.EDIT: Taking a quick look at the fight, using the shield as a shield rather than cover (which is the best improvisation I can think of for you) has absolutely no effect on the fight. The one attack that hit after you dropped the shield was a 23. With the shield, your AC is... 23. The end result stands. I also edited in the counter-trip. Alexi got a 21 to Flamehair's 15. The flail is still dropped. |
| Usurpator10-23-05, 03:45 PM | EDIT: Taking a quick look at the fight, using the shield as a shield rather than cover (which is the best improvisation I can think of for you) has absolutely no effect on the fight. Thank you for looking into it. Consider the edit-work done and the results final. I can now reveal my alternative idea: stow the heavy flail and draw a regular flail. Now Flamehair can do a charge attack without problem and still follow all other tactics, albeit with a little less damage. At least, I wouldn't consider that a too far-fetched improvisation. |
| MysticMonk200510-23-05, 05:14 PM | a note about Lissa Vs Alac. Lissa still has one quiver of arrows on her person. So she wouldnt need to take a round to grab some. Thanks for running the fight SoulLord! |
| Mind Rogue10-23-05, 06:44 PM | Devolved (Enterik) vs Wolfcaller (Poe) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7572172&postcount=534) @Mind Rogue: Sigh...here I am again, disputing the match because I am forced to put my skill totals at -7 to reflect the fact that Devolved is equipped with a tower shield just in case his opponent favors ranged attacks. However, my tactics indicated that Devolved would not be carrying his shield. This would put his round one move silently check at 13+3dex-20run=-4. The difference is 17 which means there are 9 possible locations for Devolved, he may be hit by chance, but he is not pinpointed. In round 3 (and all attacks thereafter) Devolved suffers a mysterious -2 penalty to hit, which must also reflect your belief that Devolved was carrying his Tower Shield (possibly from my opponent's tactics?). It wouldn't matter in round 3, but the round 5 grapple attack would have succeeded (note also Snowfang's bite would have hit due to Devolved's reduced AC). In round 4 it becomes clear that even though Devolved intends full grapple attacks once Wolfcaller is grappled, he is still only getting one claws worth of grapple attacks. I assume the second claw is missing because you (incorrectly) believe Devolved is holding the Tower Shield, but the bite grappling attack was not rolled. Also, I don't think Devolved should suffer the -4 penalty for natural attacks used within a grapple because he is using natrual attacks for grappling, which shouldn't suffer that penalty. In every round where Devolved is grappling he should also get another claw attack and a bite attack. By virtue of his multiattack feat. Even if you thought Devolved was carrying his shield, which he didn't, he'd still get bite attacks each round upon Wolfcaller. So in summation, Devolved will probably avoid the lightning bolt in round 2 and go straight to grapple in round 3, and thereafter make multiple (grapple) attacks each round. @Caterane: Shouldn't there be some official CoCo ruling (perhaps in the rules themself) on the point of using natural attacks for lethal grappling as opposed to using natural attacks within a grapple? It seems like every match Devolved attempts to grapple the issue must be revisited. I had assumed that you were carrying your towershield because you had it listed for your armor and skills and you didn't specifically say you weren't carrying it. Nonetheless, I fixed the fight with you not wielding your shield and with wolfcaller's proper grapple modifier. You still don't get extra attacks because you can only use one weapon while grappling. And don't even bring up the rules of the game article. It only says that this is a possible way to do things, not that it is how the rules work, and I personally prefer the second wording anyway. Besides, if any natural weapon can be used to "damage an opponent" while grappling, why do most monsters with improved grap specifically call attention to the fact that they can damage their opponent with a specific natural weapon with a grapple check. You also said to make grappling claw attacks which I interpreted to be "enter grapple, then attack with the claw". |
| NiQil10-23-05, 07:00 PM | I had assumed that you were carrying your towershield because you had it listed for your armor and skills and you didn't specifically say you weren't carrying it. Nonetheless, I fixed the fight with you not wielding your shield and with wolfcaller's proper grapple modifier. You still don't get extra attacks because you can only use one weapon while grappling. And don't even bring up the rules of the game article. It only says that this is a possible way to do things, not that it is how the rules work, and I personally prefer the second wording anyway. Besides, if any natural weapon can be used to "damage an opponent" while grappling, why do most monsters with improved grap specifically call attention to the fact that they can damage their opponent with a specific natural weapon with a grapple check. You also said to make grappling claw attacks which I interpreted to be "enter grapple, then attack with the claw". Personal opinions aside, The Rules of the Game article is a valid rules listing here in CoCo, and further, grappling has been consistantly ruled here to allow someone with natural attacks a grapple attempt for each natural attack they have. |
| Mind Rogue10-23-05, 08:09 PM | Personal opinions aside, The Rules of the Game article is a valid rules listing here in CoCo, and further, grappling has been consistantly ruled here to allow someone with natural attacks a grapple attempt for each natural attack they have. I pointed out the fact that the RotG article specifically says this isn't what the rules state, just two different ways that you can go about doing things. Neither option presented there is actually an official rule: just a possibility for a houserule. |
| Cerebus1310-23-05, 08:17 PM | I pointed out the fact that the RotG article specifically says this isn't what the rules state, just two different ways that you can go about doing things. Neither option presented there is actually an official rule: just a possibility for a houserule.We've used the "1 grapple action per natural attack" option for quite a while now because monsters are not well defined within the grappling rules. Caterane should probably add that to the Rules FAQ somewhere. |
| Snommelp10-24-05, 12:41 AM | Usurpator: 3 arrows missed of 8 used. That means Grik salvaged either 1 or 2 by your 1/2 rule. Which should I use, according to you my pitlord? |
| Oldmangray10-24-05, 12:51 AM | umm just wondering where my fight is seems king uther has gone afk its monday where i am so im a little worried (gmt+10) |
| One_Winged_Angel10-24-05, 12:55 AM | umm just wondering where my fight is seems king uther has gone afk its monday where i am so im a little worried (gmt+10) The deadline actually tuesday at Midnight. |
| King Uther10-24-05, 01:02 AM | @OldManGray The fight will be up. Trust me on that. Either it'll be done before I go to bed or be started when I wake up. |
| King Uther10-24-05, 02:02 AM | Also, Dr. Funk is scheduled for a miniquest this week. It was not one I was asked for, and I have not received any PMs specifying what he wants. If I don't get any info by tomorrow evening, I will run the mini anyways. |
| Usurpator10-24-05, 02:56 AM | Usurpator: 3 arrows missed of 8 used. That means Grik salvaged either 1 or 2 by your 1/2 rule. Which should I use, according to you my pitlord? 1 salvaged, I'll add it in to the fight. thanx! |
| Luni10-24-05, 03:36 AM | Kalarthus vs Fjord is done. Find it here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7578396&postcount=537) Note. I'm unsure how dogs hunt. Do they chase after their prey, or are they smart enough to try to get ahead of their prey? |
| TheMagister10-24-05, 07:38 AM | @Niqil: I hate to do this to myself, but... @NiQuil Damn lucky crit! Ah well. One thing about the fight that may make a difference though (I doubt it). while he's color sprayed, he's stunned. Quote: A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). Which means no healing, and no attacking, and I get a +2 to hit. With that lack of a potion and additional +2 to hit, I have an outside shot to kill him with all my friends helping. While looking at the fight, this immediately jumped out at me. I don't know if it made any difference (the online roller HATED you at the end, Waywreth) but it's WAY wrong as it is... Edit: Took a longer look at the fight. Even if Torgirr hadn't drank that potion, Casgish would STILL have only gotten him down to 2 hp (only!, HA!). The rolling was THAT bad. So, no edit is really necessary. The pitlord, by having Torgirr act at all while stunned, only made himself type about an extra 150 words. The actions had no bearing on the fight at all. Hot Dang, one of my characters FINALLY got lucky. (They've been killed by unlikely crits like this one like, 3-4 times already. Curse you, Luk Bo!) TM |
| waywreth10-24-05, 08:21 AM | @Niqil: [i]Edit: Took a longer look at the fight. Even if Torgirr hadn't drank that potion... Yes, even my cleric of the luck god is hated by the online die roller. At least my tactics were sound. Oh well. That should save Torgirr a potion though. |
| TelinArtho10-24-05, 09:52 AM | Also, Dr. Funk is scheduled for a miniquest this week. It was not one I was asked for, and I have not received any PMs specifying what he wants. If I don't get any info by tomorrow evening, I will run the mini anyways. He's just looking to gain a small fire elemental ally - nothing special. He's not able to get online a lot, but he tries to get a few times in each week. If I talk to him, I'll let him know that you're looking for info from him. |
| TelinArtho10-24-05, 10:00 AM | @Luni about the Bless spell. In the Krunch vs Crovax fight you state that bless only affects allies. However from the area of the spell: The caster and all allies within a 50-ft. burst, centered on the caster I've never seen anything that says it would only affect allies - so I figured I'd just point it out because I think you are in error about its use. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-24-05, 10:04 AM | @Luni about the Bless spell. In the Krunch vs Crovax fight you state that bless only affects allies. However from the area of the spell: I've never seen anything that says it would only affect allies - so I figured I'd just point it out because I think you are in error about its use. Yup..we got it covered in PM's. Thanks though. ;) -ToK |
| Myrridin10-24-05, 10:27 AM | I just noticed that Kalarthus got put in prison for having Craft Magical Arms & Armor. According to the CoCo rules, we're waving the Caster Level prereq for item creation feats, does he still belong there? Also, you can draw a scroll while moving. It's similar to drawing a weapon while moving. As long as you have BAB +1 or higher, you can do it. At least that's my understanding, and how it has been run in the past. |
| SoulLord10-24-05, 10:30 AM | drawing a scroll takes a move action; you can draw a weaponlike object if you have bab of +1 or higher as part of your move action. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-24-05, 10:31 AM | I just noticed that Kalarthus got put in prison for having Craft Magical Arms & Armor. According to the CoCo rules, we're waving the Caster Level prereq for item creation feats, does he still belong there? Also, you can draw a scroll while moving. It's similar to drawing a weapon while moving. As long as you have BAB +1 or higher, you can do it. At least that's my understanding, and how it has been run in the past. The caster level is waved for the creation of the item, not taking the feat. And we've never allowed scrolls to be drawn while moving. Those pitlords who've done it have been berated for it each time. -ToK |
| TelinArtho10-24-05, 10:32 AM | Scrolls are not weapon-like objects. You can draw a wand for free during a move action (if your BAB is +1 or higher), but not scrolls. As to the crafting, you're close, but not quite. The CL requirement is waived on the items that you create, but not on the feats required to craft them. Therefore, CL3 with Craft Wondrous Item (CL3) to craft Pearls of Power (CL18) - Okay. CL3 with Craft Magic Arms and Armor (CL5) to craft a suit of +1 Full Plate (CL3) - not okay. Wow I'm slow... |
| Cerebus1310-24-05, 10:34 AM | Edit: ..oops, already answered |
| Myrridin10-24-05, 10:56 AM | Ahh crap. Then there's all sorts of illegal stuff about Kalarthus. I need to ditch Craft Magical Arms and Armor, as I won't be able to take that until level 6 (CL5). I'll need to refund the magical longbow, as I can't afford that w/o being able to self craft it. As for the scrolls, huh, thanks for the clarification. |
| NiQil10-24-05, 11:21 AM | Yes, even my cleric of the luck god is hated by the online die roller. At least my tactics were sound. Oh well. That should save Torgirr a potion though. Since the error on my part is not fight affecting, rather than edit the fight, I am only going to edit the end summary of items used, as you would get that potion back. |
| TheMagister10-24-05, 11:29 AM | Since the error on my part is not fight affecting, rather than edit the fight, I am only going to edit the end summary of items used, as you would get that potion back. Sweet! 50gp banked! TM |
| Luni10-24-05, 11:44 AM | @Luni about the Bless spell. In the Krunch vs Crovax fight you state that bless only affects allies. However from the area of the spell: I've never seen anything that says it would only affect allies - so I figured I'd just point it out because I think you are in error about its use. Actually, from the description: Bless fills your allies with courage. Each ally gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects. I never read the area line before. Just the description. |
| Luni10-24-05, 11:51 AM | Scrolls are not weapon-like objects. You can draw a wand for free during a move action (if your BAB is +1 or higher), but not scrolls. As to the crafting, you're close, but not quite. The CL requirement is waived on the items that you create, but not on the feats required to craft them. Therefore, CL3 with Craft Wondrous Item (CL3) to craft Pearls of Power (CL18) - Okay. CL3 with Craft Magic Arms and Armor (CL5) to craft a suit of +1 Full Plate (CL3) - not okay. Wow I'm slow... I don't even know why we have a house rule about that. CL isn't a preresquite on magical items, just on psionic items. For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given. IF you are a level 5 wizard, you can craft a Hand of Glory at CL 20 instead of CL 5. |
| TelinArtho10-24-05, 11:56 AM | Well, you couldn't craft a Hand of Glory as a CL20 if you are only CL5 - but I know. It isn't so much of a house-rule as a clarification (in my opinion), because some people feel that it is a "requirement" - because they immediately precede the "Prerequisites" section of each item. I know this has been the subject of endless debate in various circles. As a DM, I might add, I use the CL as a prerequisite - mostly because the players do have a fair bit of down-time, and I don't want to just let them craft Pearls of Power ad infinitum when they have the time. Pearls of Power are my case example because they make wizards and clerics very powerful (if they have the time and money to be crafted). However, that's me as a DM and in my particular group - nothing more. |
| Luni10-24-05, 12:57 PM | Ok. I've edited the Uhme vs Hagrid. Uhme taps his tattoo, but before his tattoo can heal him, he falls off his horse, leaving him at the mercy of Hagrid's bow. |
| Pittbull10-24-05, 01:04 PM | Whow, a stay in saddle-check! I didn't thought of that! Cool, thanks for doing the rerun, let's wait for Cat's respond. |
| Enterik10-24-05, 04:37 PM | Devolved (Enterik) vs Wolfcaller (Poe) version II (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7572172&postcount=534) @Mind Rogue: Well at least the tower shield and pinpoint issues are resolved. But, you still have Devolved natural attacking within the grapple (and at a -4 penalty to boot) as opposed to grappling with natural attacks. This clearly contradicts the informed opinion you received on the subject of natural attacks and grappling by monsters. In this newer version where the rolls go against Devolved, it matters for rounds 4, 5, 6 and 7 since that would represent a total of 8 additional attacks by Devolved upon Wolfcaller. Minimum rolls and strength boni for those attacks, should they hit, should be sufficient to render Wolfcaller unconscious (24hp damage). |
| nightbanegod10-24-05, 05:42 PM | alas... it seems pitlords missed my post on THIS PAGE post 216 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=517768&page=8&pp=30) even though a few posts down he goes over fights up for grabs... but in any event i only just found out that i have a fight to run this week.. and as such have no time to run said fight... tactics here for the taking... Karisia Hmm. I'm ill prepared for Archie, but here's the best I can do. Note: Always use psicraft to identify any buffs he puts up. Free Action every round. If he casts Resist Sonic, make all my References to Sonic, Ice instead. Enter at the front with my stone of Enlarged Energy Push, and my bow in the other hand. Leave my armor at home. 1: Do I have LoS? If yes, go to #Offense 2: Move forward 30'. Do I have LoS? If yes go to #Offense No LoS, move towards the center, hiding in the darkness. 3: Cast Darkness on myself, so he suffers from a miss chance. 4: Manifest Animal Affinity [Dex] 5: Manifest Vigor [3pp, Aug] 6: Draw and use Stone of Resist Acid. Now, if I can see him, does he have Mirror Image up? If yes, shoot arrows at him until the images go down. Keep Moving around the center. So he has to spend an action moving every round. Break LoS, and rehide in Darkness field. Then go to #Offense. #Offense: Use the enlarged stone of Energy Push [Sonic], and keep on closing. Manifest it from memory when in range. Stop and go to using my bow when he casts Mirror Image. Once Mirror Image ends, move underneath and use more Energy Pushes. Or my enlarged Stone of Energy ray when out of pp. Note: It is possible Energy Push might push him into the ceiling for extra damage. Notes: Use Vigor [3pp, Aug] if my hp's get low. Also, he can not cast spells from scrolls and deliver them via Spectral Hand. VS ArchieArchie vs Karisia Notes: I was under the impression that augmented psionic items cost credits. I keep getting thrown in jail for it, so I'm not sure why she has a bunch of augmented psionic items. None of her stones are addressed, I think that means she can't use them without addressing them first. I believe they are DC 20 checks and standard actions. If she tries anything silly, like Matter Agitation (hair) or (clothes), my characters is completely hairless, and naked for this fight. Also, not sure how she gets free enlarged attached to her stones. They should be increasing the costs majorly. I have resistance to cold/fire/electricity 5. So deduct that first from any of her energy shots. True Strike will remove the miss-chance associated with her darkness Beginning: Enter arena with scroll of mirror image in hand. Start off to the left of my starting block, behind the piece of cover there, using it as full cover. (can't see me to start) Familiar will stay with me at all times, until i'm buffed and ready to go out to look for her. Buffing Rounds:<all from scrolls unless otherwise noted> mirror image alterself (air mephit, 60' perfect fly, +3 nat, +1ac size) false life endurance resist energy sonic protection from arrows Attacking Rounds: Tactical Move to the ceiling, stay behind full cover so she can't see me. Hawkeye will go out looking for her by circling the area outside of the central pillars. Once spotted, he'll let me know where he is, and i'll cast true strike (scroll)...move out and shoot he with acid arrow. Don't forget she'll need to make concentration checks for being struck and continuous dmg as well. Stay away from walls/cover where she could bump me into, until she's out of PP, and has used her stone of energy push. Melf's (x3) magic missile (x3) Need more Offense: Spectral hand + shocking grasp x2 from memory. Once those run out, use my scrolls of shocking grasp, designating Hawkeye as the toucher, and he will dive touch-attack her (double dmg). Contingencies: She will have to whitle down my images first before using one of her targeting bomb stones. If reduced to 1 image, recast from memory. If reduced to 10 hp or less, RUN far far away, drink CMW potion and tap tatoo of vigor. If I get tanglefooted, use universal solvent. If she's adapted to acid, skip the acid arrows until it's worn off. If she's adapted to electricity, skip shocking grasps (when the time comes) and go straight to bow. This will also free up two more spell slots. Use both of those slots to cast true strike for my next attack (whether melf's, or arrow shot). If she flies and tries to close for melee, remember, I have 60' perfect flight. It is absolutely impossible for her to catch me. She only has 45'good with her armour. I can fly up/down at will with no cost to my movement change and my down of double move, is far faster and superior to hers. Ensure she NEVER gets to melee with me. If she matter agitates my sword/bow/quiver, or whatever, just drop it immediately (free action). All offense has run out: If we are reduced to using bows and arrows, fire away. If she was resistant to electricity, I will have two true strikes to use. Also, it's possible my buffing was interrupted. If I do not have pro arrows up, cast it now. Interrupted Buffing: Use my perfect flight, run action to fly away and take full cover at the opposite end and hide. She absolutely cannot catch me. One run action should give me two rounds of uninterrupted buffing unless she was exactly in line with my run. So do not run in exact line with her. Make sure the run is at her perpendicular. Otherwise, do not run if all I had left to cast was Pro Arrows. As usual, if there are any questions or problems, please drop me a line. /amz |
| TelinArtho10-24-05, 05:47 PM | I'll take it. And you might want to send a PM or two (or four or twenty... heh heh heh) to get it across. Or just one and yell again if he screw up :) |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-24-05, 05:52 PM | ***EDIT Telin beat me to it i guess. -ToK |
| Mind Rogue10-24-05, 06:25 PM | Devolved (Enterik) vs Wolfcaller (Poe) version II (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7572172&postcount=534) @Mind Rogue: Well at least the tower shield and pinpoint issues are resolved. But, you still have Devolved natural attacking within the grapple (and at a -4 penalty to boot) as opposed to grappling with natural attacks. This clearly contradicts the informed opinion you received on the subject of natural attacks and grappling by monsters. In this newer version where the rolls go against Devolved, it matters for rounds 4, 5, 6 and 7 since that would represent a total of 8 additional attacks by Devolved upon Wolfcaller. Minimum rolls and strength boni for those attacks, should they hit, should be sufficient to render Wolfcaller unconscious (24hp damage). That's because you haven't convinced me that this is the way it is supposed to be, that the RotG article says that is the way it is, nor gotten an elder ruling on it, unless they skipped over Cerebus when they reallocated the new titles, which I very highly doubt. |
| NiQil10-24-05, 06:31 PM | That's because you haven't convinced me that this is the way it is supposed to be, that the RotG article says that is the way it is, nor gotten an elder ruling on it, unless they skipped over Cerebus when they reallocated the new titles, which I very highly doubt. Take a look at most of Mer-Man's fights for reference...or any other fighter here with natural attacks. Most of them have used grapples at one point or another and all have gotten one grapple attempt per natural weapon. Heck, in a fight a few weeks ago, a HORSE with the Grapple trick grappled one of my characters to death with 3 grapples per round...one for each natural weapon it has. In fact it was Cerebus' character that did it. This is the way it has been consistently ruled for the several months I have been here. No Elder ruling is needed, because the ruling has already been made time and again. |
| SoulLord10-24-05, 06:56 PM | wasn't the part of natural attacks only used to "start a grapple" compared to making multiple grapple checks with your natural weapons? If the grappler with natural weapons wants to atttack with such weapons while in a grapple that's fine but I don't think they substitute to making multiple grapple checks. heres the before mentioned article. The rules don't say much about how monsters conduct grappling combat. It's easiest, however, to allow a monster one grappling attack per natural weapon it has, provided that the natural weapon can hold on to the target in some fashion. The monster uses its listed grapple bonus when attacking with a primary natural weapon (or weapons) and its listed grapple bonus -5 for any secondary natural weapons. If the monster's grapple attack deals damage to a foe, the damage is lethal (unless the monster takes a -4 penalty to deal nonlethal damage) and equal to the damage rating for the natural weapon. For example, a troll grappling with a claw has a grapple bonus of +14 and deals 1d6+6 point of damage with the attack. A slightly more complex method for handling grappling monsters is to allow the monster one grapple attack for every 5 points of base attack bonus it has. If the monster has natural weaponry, it deals lethal damage from one natural attack. The monster can use each natural weapon only once during its turn. If the monster's base attack allows it more grapple attacks than it has natural weapons, it must deal normal unarmed damage for any extra attacks |
| nightbanegod10-24-05, 07:03 PM | I'll take it. And you might want to send a PM or two (or four or twenty... heh heh heh) to get it across. Or just one and yell again if he screw up :) duely noted and PM sent... |
| NiQil10-24-05, 07:26 PM | wasn't the part of natural attacks only used to "start a grapple" compared to making multiple grapple checks with your natural weapons? If the grappler with natural weapons wants to atttack with such weapons while in a grapple that's fine but I don't think they substitute to making multiple grapple checks. heres the before mentioned article. Maybe I poorly worded my response. You are allowed to make an attempt to start a grapple for each natural attack you have. Once in a grapple, you can use the "attack an opponent" option to strike an opponent at a -4 penalty for each natural attack you have (this is, incidently, what allows monks to flurry in a grapple). Or, you can use the "damage an opponent" option and make a grapple check with each primary natural weapon at no penalty and a grapple check with each secondary natural weapon at a -5 penalty (again, what allows monks to make grapple checks while flurrying). Edit: Check out Mer-man's last fight against Virgo. This is a prime example. Virgo started a grapple, and used his flurry to make grapple checks with the "damage an opponent" action for each attack in the flurry. Mer-Man, on the other hand, used each natural attack he had to attack in the grapple with the "attack an opponent" action at a -4 penalty. |
| Begferdeth10-24-05, 07:53 PM | Dalaria vs Ivelios (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561272) is back! @TelinArtho: Woops about the summoning times. The "too big for improved grab" means just that: Improved grab works against things up to one size smaller than you. Ivelios and the Scorpion are the same size, so no free grabbing. Hope your happier about this run. Now for The Undershadows complaints... ;) |
| Ribking10-24-05, 07:55 PM | Also....I stated in my subject line that I was weaponsmithing 3 MW Throwing Axes, but I think it may have been overlooked because perhaps I did the same thing last week and maybe someone thought I forgot to remove it. Since it is not posted in the Free Actions section of the Character listing this week, then should I assume it didn't happen and I didn't spend the GP to buy the raw materials?Can anyone answer this for me? |
| NiQil10-24-05, 07:59 PM | Can anyone answer this for me? If the total of those items is over 1000 gp marketprice (i.e. before the crafting discount), then you would not have been able to craft them and get paired in the same week and should assume it did not happen. If the total of those items is under 1000 gp marketprice, then you do not need to link them as you are allowed to craft anything totaling up to 1000 gp during the week and still fight. |
| Ribking10-24-05, 08:09 PM | If the total of those items is under 1000 gp marketprice, then you do not need to link them as you are allowed to craft anything totaling up to 1000 gp during the week and still fight.Yeah, that's what I thought. It's just that last week, it was listed in the Free Actions area of the Character Actions. I just wanted to make sure. Thanks! |
| TelinArtho10-24-05, 11:09 PM | Dalaria vs Ivelios (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561272) is back! @TelinArtho: Woops about the summoning times. The "too big for improved grab" means just that: Improved grab works against things up to one size smaller than you. Ivelios and the Scorpion are the same size, so no free grabbing. Hope your happier about this run. Now for The Undershadows complaints... ;) Well, I learned something new today... improved grab for scorpions medium and smaller sucks... Anyway - thanks for fixing the fight. There are a few minor things that I see but they don't affect things (they make a few misses miss by even more), if I get a chance to look it over in more depth tomorrow - I'll let you know. Thanks again /d |
| Emrys Donovan10-24-05, 11:42 PM | Ok guys, I'm really sorry about this, but due to my school grades dropping a bit, I'm having to cut my free time and quit my job to have the extra time to get help for my classes and focus more on course work. Due to this, I cannot run my two fights. I have all tactics, and will forward them to the first one (If you want both) or two people that say they'll take them. I'll be around, but not for too long at a time; I'm limiting myself to two posts per day, mainly for the campaign I'm in so they don't have to try to replace me. So, who wants one or two credits? |
| Luni10-24-05, 11:53 PM | You can forward one my way and I'll run it in the morning. |
| Emrys Donovan10-25-05, 12:09 AM | Anyone else? |
| One_Winged_Angel10-25-05, 02:19 AM | Huan, where aaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre yoooooooou? :confused: :confused: :confused: Odd. This is the first time he has run my fight that it hasn't been up by now. Anyone know if he's overworked? If so, tell him to take a week off or two off from this. I went for a few months and it did wonders. :P |
| The Undershadow10-25-05, 04:47 AM | Wraith vs Dargain Dar'ath here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587421&postcount=539) |
| Book510-25-05, 05:12 AM | Solon vs Kracknol (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7587473&posted=1#post7587473) Its pretty intense! arrggg, this is taking soooo long. Im not sure Im gonna get Finduilas vs Kermadec "on time" - I finish by the end of the day tuesday (pacific) |
| Gonbow10-25-05, 07:27 AM | Lord Tresserhome vrs Ms. Buttmunch is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587737&postcount=541). Now, I've had fights with /more/ 20s than this (one just couldn't stop rolling 20s, actually), but this is probably one of the most timely ever. Slightly sloppy tactics on my part for the monster, but I'll let ya'll read what happens. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-25-05, 07:43 AM | My bad.... |
| SauroGrenom10-25-05, 09:11 AM | Book5, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you made a couple critical erors in the Kracknol vs Solon fight. First, Kracknol's vigor stone is cast at ML4 so it has a durration of 40 rounds and should not expire in the 13th round. Second, the damage rolls for while in a grapple need to be increased by one size category due to Kracknol's expansion. I believe d4 is what large chracters recieve. Also I think that you add strength to the damage rolls even if the damage is nonlethal, I think this was missed in the 16th round(don't forget Kracknol's increased str due to enlarge). Lastly, in the 17th round, if Solon is attacking with an attack roll then he takes a -4 penalty on the attack role. Also, I just noticed that Kracknol's force screen expired in round 14, and since it is manifest at ML2 it shouldn't expire till round 24. These changes will drastically affect the outcome of the fight. SauroGrenom |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 09:55 AM | @Emrys - if you still need someone to run the other fight - I'll grab it. |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 10:38 AM | Quite a few fights missing right now, let's see if we can't get them resolved! Level 3 Cid Highwing (Dr.Funk) miniquests for a small fire elemental: King Uther Kailia (One_Winged_Angel) vs Durkon Giant Slayer (Poe The Great): Huan Anya Starfire (Mind Rogue) vs Perius (Ravashack): Emrys Donovan Kermadec (NiQil) vs Finduilas Seregon (The Undershadow): Book5 Level 4 Arbados (King Uther) vs Gang Lion (Sloisel): Emrys Donovan Luni Level 7 The Pale-RiderECL6 (Tellish of Ket) vs Nessa Tempe (LLMadCow): Huan Emrys has already pushed one of his fights to Luni - don't know which one though. Other than that - if people send me tactics - I'll take over a fight - just send them on (via PM preferably). |
| King Uther10-25-05, 10:39 AM | HG Milstead vs Tak the Hungry (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7584031&postcount=538) would've been up sooner, but my area was receiving internet maintenance and I couldn't send/work on anything for a long while. |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 10:49 AM | Its up now - that's all that matters. Would you like me to take Cid's miniquest so that you can concentrate on the quests today? (just offering) |
| Caterane10-25-05, 10:54 AM | Ok. I've edited the Uhme vs Hagrid. Uhme taps his tattoo, but before his tattoo can heal him, he falls off his horse, leaving him at the mercy of Hagrid's bow. Luni, you are kidding right? My tattoo gives me 5 points the moment it is activated, ie the moment my standard action is complete. After I used a standard action, I lose 1 point of damage. So Uhme has 4 hitpoints left at the end of the round and surely does not need a stay in saddle check. Please correct that. |
| Enterik10-25-05, 11:15 AM | HG Milstead vs Tak the Hungry (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7584031&postcount=538) would've been up sooner, but my area was receiving internet maintenance and I couldn't send/work on anything for a long while. @King Uther: Thanks for running the match. I realize, with low hit points, HG is a fragile target with a consistant 5% chance of being downed by any given attack, and I intend to get a variety of useful spells, but I wanted to see if HG can get it done as a divining archer. Advise well taken though. By the way, could you also add money made from Profession(Instructor) and indicated if any arrows survived the fight? Also, although primarily for RP purposes, could you also indicate that the eye and hair of Tak have been preserved in the Unguent of timelessness and HG's invisible arcane mark placed upon his chain shirt? @Oldmangray: Had you quaffed your protection from arrows, HG would have been toast since none of the arrows did more than 8hp of damage. This is a factor HG will seriously consider in future matches. |
| Ravashack10-25-05, 11:18 AM | Luni, you are kidding right? My tattoo gives me 5 points the moment it is activated, ie the moment my standard action is complete. After I used a standard action, I lose 1 point of damage. So Uhme has 4 hitpoints left at the end of the round and surely does not need a stay in saddle check. Please correct that. That is not a joke at all. The wearer of a crawling tattoo can tap the tattoo as a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity, mentally specifying a target (to which the wearer must have line of sight). Instead of manifesting its stored power, the tattoo animates, drops to the ground, and scuttles toward the target. Crawling tattoos don't automatically manifest their power on you. They plop to the ground, and *then* attempt to attack you. Hence, you take the -1 damage first, fall off, then get hit by it. If you wanted it to automatically affect you without that interim plop, you need to pay the double price of the normal psionic tattoo for one of those, which does automatically affect you immediately. |
| Caterane10-25-05, 11:21 AM | It is already on the target's skin. And it's the same sequence. |
| King Uther10-25-05, 11:23 AM | @Enterik and Oldmangray The fight isn't necessarily concrete, as Oldmangray could argue he should've used his protection from arrows after being shot once or twice. I opted not to to save him some money, but in reality if he survived another 5-10 rounds, your shield buff would end and he would have at least a chance to hit you then. @TelinArtho and Usurpator Dragon fight is done! I'll respond to the next encounter on my lunch break if you guys can get on. |
| Luni10-25-05, 11:55 AM | @ToK: Archie doesn't have a scroll of Alter Self, so that changes a bit. He would be out of spells/day before the Shocking grasps rolled around. |
| Ravashack10-25-05, 11:55 AM | It is already on the target's skin. And it's the same sequence. It is on the target's skin. But that doesn't really matter if the text governing crawling tattoos makes an emphasis on it getting off of the person activating it first. As written, it doesn't start looking for the target until it hits the ground first. |
| Luni10-25-05, 11:56 AM | Arbados (King Uther) vs Gang Lion (Sloisel): Emrys Donovan I have this set of tactics. |
| sloisel10-25-05, 11:56 AM | @Gonbow: Thanks for running the fight. On round 12 when the Gauth moves 20', shouldn't it draw an AoO? This AoO would of course be a grapple attack. Oh, and by the way, chameleon lasts 10 minutes, not 10 rounds. I don't think it affects anything. Thanks! Sébastien Loisel |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 11:57 AM | I have this set of tactics. Okay - then there's still a bunch of fights that need to be done. As I said before, if I receive both sets of tactics, I'll run the fight. /d |
| NiQil10-25-05, 12:01 PM | It is on the target's skin. But that doesn't really matter if the text governing crawling tattoos makes an emphasis on it getting off of the person activating it first. As written, it doesn't start looking for the target until it hits the ground first. Ravashack has it right...that is the primary difference between standard tattoos and crawling tattoos. A standard tattoo of vigor costs double, but takes effect during the standard action that it is tapped in. A crawling tattoo of vigor costs normal, but does not take effect until the standard action that it is tapped in is over if it is "attacking" you with it's power. That's the tradeoff for getting the personal power at the reduced cost. |
| NiQil10-25-05, 12:03 PM | Okay - then there's still a bunch of fights that need to be done. As I said before, if I receive both sets of tactics, I'll run the fight. /d I have Kermadec's tactics I can forward to whomever....though without my opponent's tactics along with them, they are quite useless LOL. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-25-05, 12:25 PM | Wraith vs Dargain Dar'ath here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587421&postcount=539) *Sigh* Well run, well run. I knew when I saw the +9 to save vs. my spells that I was screwed. Nicely done, no complaints. |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 12:30 PM | Level 3 Cid Highwing (Dr.Funk) miniquests for a small fire elemental: King Uther Kailia (One_Winged_Angel) vs Durkon Giant Slayer (Poe The Great): Huan COMPLETE Anya Starfire (Mind Rogue) vs Perius (Ravashack): Emrys Donovan TelinArtho (pending receipt of Anya's tactics) Kermadec (NiQil) vs Finduilas Seregon (The Undershadow): Book5 TelinArtho (working on it now) Level 4 Arbados (King Uther) vs Gang Lion (Sloisel): Emrys Donovan Luni COMPLETE Level 7 The Pale-RiderECL6 (Tellish of Ket) vs Nessa Tempe (LLMadCow): Huan (blaming lateness of LLMadCow... claims he's working on it :) ) I have received Perius's tactics. If Mind Rogue can forward me the tactics for Anya - I will run the fight. Also @NiQil - If you send me the tactics, I can send out a call to the Undershadow and get that fight done. |
| NiQil10-25-05, 12:38 PM | I have received Perius's tactics. If Mind Rogue can forward me the tactics for Anya - I will run the fight. Also @NiQil - If you send me the tactics, I can send out a call to the Undershadow and get that fight done. Sent |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 12:41 PM | Received. @The Undershadow - if you log in and see this - send me the tactics for Find... whatever the rest of his name is... /d |
| Luni10-25-05, 02:35 PM | Sthin vs Gang Lion is up here (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7590463&postcount=543) Arbados is just Sthin's companion. :) |
| Luni10-25-05, 02:36 PM | @NiQil: Have you ever had a week where one of your fights wasn't late? |
| NiQil10-25-05, 02:40 PM | @NiQil: Have you ever had a week where one of your fights wasn't late? LOL I've often asked myself that same question. I had a stretch where I went 6 weeks in a row and 7 of 8 that had at least one of my characters' fights show up late....then had 2 weeks in a row where they all came in on time....and now this is week 2 of a new streak. I guess we'll see how long this streak lasts <shrug> |
| The Undershadow10-25-05, 02:40 PM | All right, Telin, I sent my tactics. Have fun. |
| Huan10-25-05, 02:42 PM | One down: Belated bare bones of Kailia vs Durkon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7590485) is up. Short version: Heated melee combat with no sight in end until a few fumbles too many spell defeat for one. On the Pale-Rider/Nessa fight: Delayed tactics from LLMC... blame him. :P *scoots away* I'm on it now, in any case. |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 02:47 PM | Tactics received for Findu... oh whatever... Here's the updated remains: Level 3 Cid Highwing (Dr.Funk) miniquests for a small fire elemental: King Uther Anya Starfire (Mind Rogue) vs Perius (Ravashack): Emrys Donovan TelinArtho (pending receipt of Anya's tactics) Kermadec (NiQil) vs Finduilas Seregon (The Undershadow): Book5 TelinArtho (working on it now) - COMPLETE Level 7 The Pale-RiderECL6 (Tellish of Ket) vs Nessa Tempe (LLMadCow): Huan (blaming lateness of LLMadCow... claims he's working on it ) |
| Sunwolf10-25-05, 02:50 PM | @Luni Re Sthin :) vs Gang Lion You missed adding the rewards for Gang Lion. |
| SauroGrenom10-25-05, 02:52 PM | Book5, I noticed a few more things about the fight between Kracknol and Solon. Solon's mirror image lasts for 30 rounds not 10. Also, the mirror image and scourching ray scrolls need to have CL checks made to be able to sucessfully cast them. The likely hood of failing those checks is very low, but they still need to be made. BTW there is a simular chance that Kracknol will fail when he uses his vigor and force shield stones. I also don't like that Kracknol waists time attacking Horus in the 11th round. Horus is no threat to Kracknol at all. At this time Kracknol should have run to close distance with Solon. That wouldn't have likely changed the outcome though. The Scorching ray scroll in round 16 requires a simular caster check. The grapple tactic is a good one, but as I mentioned in a previous post the grapple dmage is a little off, and the attack by Solon in the 17th round wouldn't have hit. Let alone the premature expiration of the vigor and force screen powers. Also, proper handling of Mirror Image is to role first to see if an attack is resolved against real Solon or just an image. Then role to see if the attack hits. The images have a different AC as compared to Solon. The images only recieve AC= 10+ Size mod+dex mod=14. They are much easier to hit than Solon's 22 AC. This is the case for all attacks agains Solon. Thus when the dog gets an AoO it destroyes an image, and every successive attack a role is made to see which image is hit untill no images remain. |
| NiQil10-25-05, 02:52 PM | One down: Belated bare bones of Kailia vs Durkon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7590485) is up. Short version: Heated melee combat with no sight in end until a few fumbles too many spell defeat for one. On the Pale-Rider/Nessa fight: Delayed tactics from LLMC... blame him. :P *scoots away* I'm on it now, in any case. No sight in end? Yoda much? LOL |
| sloisel10-25-05, 03:02 PM | Sthin vs Gang Lion is up here (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7590463&postcount=543) Arbados is just Sthin's companion. :) Thanks for running the fight. Could you put my xp/gp reward at the end of the fight, please? Sébastien Loisel |
| King Uther10-25-05, 03:02 PM | @Luni Not that it necessarily matters, but wouldn't the AoO aganst Gang prevent him from grappling when it hit? |
| Mind Rogue10-25-05, 03:11 PM | I got a PM from Cat explaining how natural weapons are supposed to work. I believe it says that Devolved gets 2 Claws and 1 Bite OR can opposed grapple for US damage. I've sent another PM to confirm it, and afterwards I'll edit in some extra attacks for the lizardman. |
| Luni10-25-05, 03:19 PM | @Sunwolf: Oops. Fixed. @Luni Not that it necessarily matters, but wouldn't the AoO aganst Gang prevent him from grappling when it hit? Ok. Gang Lion initiates the grapple, but to maintain it, he has to move into the same square as Arbados. Since Sthin threathens the area, he gets an AoO due to movement. IF you mean Arbados gets an AoO, he was unarmed. Edit: If I misread your tactics, King Uther, I apoligize. You wanted to get close, but I wasn't sure how close. |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 03:41 PM | Kermadec vs Finduilas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7591026) @The Undershadow - not much I can do when your tactics don't leave much to work with. You wanted to stay behind the rock - your opponent wanted to shoot you... /d |
| NiQil10-25-05, 03:49 PM | Kermadec vs Finduilas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7591026) @The Undershadow - not much I can do when your tactics don't leave much to work with. You wanted to stay behind the rock - your opponent wanted to shoot you... /d A couple of things...one of them my fault. Undershadow pointed this out to me after I had already submitted tactics....his HP total of 18 is correct. I forgot about the free Toughness feat he gets from his toad familiar, which gives him the extra 3 hp. So another round or two would need to be added there at the end to account for that. Secondly...the first arrow I shot should have been the poisoned arrow, as per my tactics. So there should have been a save listed for a DC 13 Fort save vs the drow poison. Might save me some arrows if my opponent fails. |
| King Uther10-25-05, 03:50 PM | No no it's fine. I was thinking the AoO was for grappling, not for moving into the threatened space. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-25-05, 03:53 PM | @LUNI: No, King Uther actually meant that since the dog hit Gang Lion, shouldn't the grapple be stopped? I can answer this. Nope. That's just a risk associated with the movement part of entering your opponents space. To stop the grapple, you need to perform the AoO yourself on the grab attempt. -ToK |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 03:56 PM | A couple of things...one of them my fault. Undershadow pointed this out to me after I had already submitted tactics....his HP total of 18 is correct. I forgot about the free Toughness feat he gets from his toad familiar, which gives him the extra 3 hp. So another round or two would need to be added there at the end to account for that. Secondly...the first arrow I shot should have been the poisoned arrow, as per my tactics. So there should have been a save listed for a DC 13 Fort save vs the drow poison. Might save me some arrows if my opponent fails. Ah - didn't see that either. Maybe you should update the violation you posted in the Prison to RETRACTED... I'll adjust the fight - somehow forgot about the poison... |
| NiQil10-25-05, 03:59 PM | Ah - didn't see that either. Maybe you should update the violation you posted in the Prison to RETRACTED... I'll adjust the fight - somehow forgot about the poison... Just did so....he informed me of this at the same time you posted the fight LOL. |
| SauroGrenom10-25-05, 03:59 PM | @Sunwolf: Oops. Fixed. Ok. Gang Lion initiates the grapple, but to maintain it, he has to move into the same square as Arbados. Since Sthin threathens the area, he gets an AoO due to movement. IF you mean Arbados gets an AoO, he was unarmed. Edit: If I misread your tactics, King Uther, I apoligize. You wanted to get close, but I wasn't sure how close. Technically Sthin needs to threaten the area that Gang Lion leaves, not the area he enters. Movement only grants an AoO if you move out of a threatened area not into one. Not realy pertinent here, but Kracknol's fight with Solon has me putting my rules lawyer hat on. |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 04:01 PM | Fight adjusted. Fort save was made and an extra round was added. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-25-05, 04:02 PM | Technically Sthin needs to threaten the area that Gang Lion leaves, not the area he enters. Movement only grants an AoO if you move out of a threatened area not into one. Uh...that is what happened. Gang Lion left his square to enter a new one. -ToK |
| King Uther10-25-05, 04:04 PM | Exactly. I was thinking he drew an AoO for starting a grapple since he does not have the feat. But he was large at the time. |
| SauroGrenom10-25-05, 04:06 PM | Uh...that is what happened. Gang Lion left his square to enter a new one. -ToK Technically Sthin needs to threaten the area that Gang Lion leaves, not the area he enters. Movement only grants an AoO if you move out of a threatened area not into one. Not realy pertinent here, but Kracknol's fight with Solon has me putting my rules lawyer hat on. Sorry I just have a bothersome hair up my arse right now.... |
| One_Winged_Angel10-25-05, 04:10 PM | One down: Belated bare bones of Kailia vs Durkon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7590485) is up. Short version: Heated melee combat with no sight in end until a few fumbles too many spell defeat for one. On the Pale-Rider/Nessa fight: Delayed tactics from LLMC... blame him. :P *scoots away* I'm on it now, in any case. Yay! It's up! *Does the Happy Dance* I'm glad I got a win in this week. ... And now for the level up! |
| NiQil10-25-05, 04:10 PM | Fight adjusted. Fort save was made and an extra round was added. Cool beans....thanks for picking up the fight. |
| Poe The Great10-25-05, 04:24 PM | One down: Belated bare bones of Kailia vs Durkon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7590485) is up. Short version: Heated melee combat with no sight in end until a few fumbles too many spell defeat for one. On the Pale-Rider/Nessa fight: Delayed tactics from LLMC... blame him. :P *scoots away* I'm on it now, in any case. MAJOR errors in the Kailia vs Durkon fight. First off, my expendible items read I used a powerstone of skate. I manifested skate from my own power pool reserve. Second off, when I picked up my flail and began attacking with it, I used the normal attack option instead of what was specifically said in my tactics, which was, as I quote... General Tactics: If my hp goes below 10, use my vigor powerstone. Try to move behind cover whenever possible. Whenever I'm in melee range, I will always attempt to make a trip attack due to her (very likely) highly buffed AC. Keep in mind with improved trip my total bonus is up +7. I will charge if the opportunity presents itself. My attacks on round 11, 13, 15, 16, 17, 19, and 20 would have been a succesful touch attacks. It's very unlikely that with my superior to trip bonus, I would've failed tripping her 7 times. As you can see, this clearly has a MAJOR impact on the battle as I could've had several killing blows during the standstill. |
| Luni10-25-05, 04:32 PM | Technically Sthin needs to threaten the area that Gang Lion leaves, not the area he enters. Movement only grants an AoO if you move out of a threatened area not into one. Not realy pertinent here, but Kracknol's fight with Solon has me putting my rules lawyer hat on. Gang Lion has 5' reach. To grapple the mounted opponent, he has to base. Not a problem. He activates Strength domain and throws his bow into his off hand. He now does a touch attack to his Opponent. His Opponent, doesn't threaten an area, as he doesn't have a weapon in hand. Therefore, no AoO. Gang Lion moves into the same square as his opponent. And look, he leaves Sthin's threatened area. |
| Usurpator10-25-05, 04:48 PM | @Book5 Like SauroGrenom I also have some issues with your rendition of Solon vs. Kracknol, some serious, others mere pointers about how to run better fights. I will try to be as exhaustive as possible, but I don't have a lot of time at this hour and I find it difficult extracting the relevant information from the fight the way it is currently formatted. Thank you for running the fight, I appreciate the effort you put into it, although I would recommend that you switch back from two fights to one fight a week. It will ease of some of the pressure and give us plenty of time to address any issues that come up before next week's lineup comes rolling along. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-25-05, 04:48 PM | MAJOR errors in the Kailia vs Durkon fight. First off, my expendible items read I used a powerstone of skate. I manifested skate from my own power pool reserve. Second off, when I picked up my flail and began attacking with it, I used the normal attack option instead of what was specifically said in my tactics, which was, as I quote... My attacks on round 11, 13, 15, 16, 17, 19, and 20 would have been a succesful touch attacks. It's very unlikely that with my superior to trip bonus, I would've failed tripping her 7 times. As you can see, this clearly has a MAJOR impact on the battle as I could've had several killing blows during the standstill. Skate is somewhat negligable. You were in melee most of the fight, so movement wasn't really a factor after the 12th round. Still, it's one less item you used. I would like to note that our opposed bonuses for trips are +7 vs. +5. I was under the effect of the Animal Affinity (Strength) stone. It is a difference, but not a horribly large one. |
| SauroGrenom10-25-05, 04:51 PM | Gang Lion has 5' reach. To grapple the mounted opponent, he has to base. Not a problem. He activates Strength domain and throws his bow into his off hand. He now does a touch attack to his Opponent. Going good here. His Opponent, doesn't threaten an area, as he doesn't have a weapon in hand. I was under the impression that not having a weapon in hand doesn't prevent you from taking an AoO. Rather an AoO would be taken with a unarmed strike. If that lands then the grapple fails. I may be wrong. Therefore, no AoO. Gang Lion moves into the same square as his opponent. And look, he leaves Sthin's threatened area. Yes Sthin get an AoO, I'm totally sorry to even bring this up. Its just that someone mentioned that Sthin gets an AoO because Gang Lion enters one of his threatened squares. This is not correct, rather an AoO is granted because Gang Lion leaves one of Sthin's threatened squares. I don't want to get into the middle of this or start an argument. I just ment to correct a small misunderstanding about what kinds of movement trigger an AoO. |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 04:56 PM | I was under the impression that not having a weapon in hand doesn't prevent you from taking an AoO. Rather an AoO would be taken with a unarmed strike. If that lands then the grapple fails. I may be wrong. Not correct necessarily: You threaten the squares around you if: a) you have a melee weapon and the appropriate reach b) you have no weapons in hand, but either natural weapons or can deal lethal damage with your unarmed strike (without taking a penalty) c) you have a touch spell charged d) you have no weapons in hand, but have Armor spikes. I may have missed some things here - but that's the essense of it. If your unarmed strike isn't lethal (ie you don't have improved unarmed strike) - you're out of luck on AoO. |
| Poe The Great10-25-05, 05:06 PM | Skate is somewhat negligable. You were in melee most of the fight, so movement wasn't really a factor after the 12th round. Still, it's one less item you used. I would like to note that our opposed bonuses for trips are +7 vs. +5. I was under the effect of the Animal Affinity (Strength) stone. It is a difference, but not a horribly large one. It's actually +9 to +5, as I was also under the effects of an Animal Affinity (Strength) stone. That's nearly double. |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 05:08 PM | Level 3 Cid Highwing (Dr.Funk) miniquests for a small fire elemental: King Uther Anya Starfire (Mind Rogue) vs Perius (Ravashack): Emrys Donovan TelinArtho (pending receipt of Anya's tactics) Level 7 The Pale-RiderECL6 (Tellish of Ket) vs Nessa Tempe (LLMadCow): Huan (blaming lateness of LLMadCow... claims he's working on it ) At this hour, these are the remaining fights. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-25-05, 05:08 PM | It's actually +9 to +5, as I was also under the effects of an Animal Affinity (Strength) stone. That's nearly double. Your tactics said +7, so that's what I was assuming. Don't blame me! Blame the one armed man. ;) |
| Book510-25-05, 05:21 PM | I have edited Solon vs. Kracknol @Usurpator and SauroGenome I have posted and edited version with the correct durations on the effects. and a turnover cae out of that modification. - its the vigor - without it Scorching ray nearly kills kracknol - with it - not even half hp. @TellinArthro thanks for knockin that fight out for me. :surrender PMed pitlords to take me back to 1 a week. Just watch though.. this next round.. its gonna take me like no time and I wont make a single mistake.. :nonono: I know it. |
| Gonbow10-25-05, 06:09 PM | @Gonbow: Thanks for running the fight. On round 12 when the Gauth moves 20', shouldn't it draw an AoO? This AoO would of course be a grapple attack. Oh, and by the way, chameleon lasts 10 minutes, not 10 rounds. I don't think it affects anything. Thanks! Sébastien Loisel The gauth doesn't provoke an AoO because you arn't threatening it; You have no weapons to threaten the spaces around you with. (You only threaten with an unarmed strike if you have Improved Unarmed Strike; which I highly suggest!) And yes, the chameleon wouldn't have mattered much, as it was close enough for you to break cover and attempt to grapple regardless of your chameleon wearing off. |
| Huan10-25-05, 07:06 PM | @Poe the Great, OWA Poe brings a valid point in tactics usage, and as such I will rerun the fight ... it will be delivered tonight. |
| Mind Rogue10-25-05, 07:19 PM | At this hour, these are the remaining fights. I figured Emrys would forward my tactics, but oh well. Tactics for Anya forwarded to TelinArtho. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-25-05, 07:32 PM | @Poe the Great, OWA Poe brings a valid point in tactics usage, and as such I will rerun the fight ... it will be delivered tonight. I agree. When it was about +7 vs. +5, that was one thing. +9 vs. +5...well...yah. Granted, with the rolls I was making...this might turn out not so good. |
| Mind Rogue10-25-05, 07:42 PM | Ok, I got tired of waiting for Cat (although granted I only sent the PM a few hours ago) so I edited in the results using what I think he was saying. Devolved got a little farther, but unfortunatly he couldn't win the war of attrition vs the wolf. |
| Enterik10-25-05, 08:19 PM | Ok, I got tired of waiting for Cat (although granted I only sent the PM a few hours ago) so I edited in the results using what I think he was saying. Devolved got a little farther, but unfortunatly he couldn't win the war of attrition vs the wolf. @Mind Rogue: So in order to win, I had to kill both Wolfcaller AND Snowfang outright? I figured if I killed Wolfcaller, I'd win, as such my tactics stated I was going to full attack Wolfcaller regardless of who was nipping at my tail. In those last rounds where Snowfang was missing, surely I could have brought the unconscious Wolfcaller to -10hp. If I am wrong, set me straight for my own good, so I don't proceed through future matches on flawed assumptions, maybe I'll invest in some Hide from Animals Magic (unless of course PCs count as creatures) :embarrass |
| TelinArtho10-25-05, 08:56 PM | I figured Emrys would forward my tactics, but oh well. Tactics for Anya forwarded to TelinArtho. Received them - but I won't be able to do the fight tonight. I'll get it done in the morning. If someone else would like to take the fight and get it done a few hours earlier - I should be around to forward them both along. Otherwise - expect it before noon tomorrow (eastern US time). |
| King Uther10-26-05, 02:48 AM | @All When I got home tonight, I had to take care of some marital issues. I am planning on waking up and finishing everything on the docket before pairings. Things I plan on finishing, in order: 1. Cid vs Fire Elemental 2. Fix Tak vs HG 3. Finish up quests 4. Hopefully have time to at least update 1 character See everyone in about 5 hours. Good night. |
| sloisel10-26-05, 03:20 AM | The gauth doesn't provoke an AoO because you arn't threatening it; You have no weapons to threaten the spaces around you with. You would be correct, except that I have armor spikes! I am therefore armed and I threaten all adjacent squares. Edit: Also, you got the awards wrong. I am ECL5, the gauth is ECL6. The XP should be 500 (max for losing at my level), the gold should be 666+105=761. Sébastien Loisel |
| Pauper10-26-05, 03:21 AM | a note about Lissa Vs Alac. Lissa still has one quiver of arrows on her person. So she wouldnt need to take a round to grab some. Thanks for running the fight SoulLord! That one's my bad, actually - for some reason, I didn't notice the arrows on your shoulder, so I noted in my tactics that, once Alac dropped Lissa's horse, she'd have to take an action to retrieve them. That oughta teach a pitlord to trust a mere player in pointing out combatant details... :P -- Pauper |
| Usurpator10-26-05, 04:37 AM | I have edited Solon vs. Kracknol Book5, thanks for editing the fight, I see it has gotten a lot better. Now for some of my points: 1. You have mirror image listed as (r15), it lasts 30 rounds though. 2. I cannot find how much mirror images were created (from Kracknol's invisible attack and the corresponding roll in invisible castle, I gather there are 4 images). 3. Any attack at Solon should check if he is hit or one of the mirror images is hit. Images have AC 14, thus are a lot easier to hit. For example: in round 6 I see Torgir attacking Solon, but no roll for the mirror images. 4. I don't see any rolls for Arcane Spell Failure due to Armor. I did make a note in my tactics warning that Solon has 10% chance of failing to cast a spell (memory or scroll) with somatic components due to the mithril chain shirt he is wearing. 5. While I think your use of readied actions by familiars etc. to aid other is innovative, there are some limitations though, the most important one: "If you’re in position to make a melee attack on an opponent" Which means Padparadscha and Horus can't actually use this action unless they enter the opponent's square, since they do not threaten at 5 ft. and thus cannot take melee attacks. 6. Aid Another is an attack roll against AC 10, not against DC 15. 7. You cannot ready to charge since you can only ready standard actions while charge is a full round action (Torgir/Para do it several times in the early rounds) 8. In round 7, why is Solon not 5 ft. stepping and using Rapid Shot as specified in tactics to shoot down the dog but moving and drawing an AoO for it? Also, the dog charged last round so should still have -2 to AC. 9. In round 8 and 9 Solon uses Rapid Shot without 5 ft. stepping to avoid AoO's, why? (counter to my specified tactics and all common sense). The same happens when Solon faces Kracknol in round 10. 10. Counter to what SauroGrenom said in his tactics, Kracknol cannot charge to within 5 ft. he must attack from 10 ft. due to the limitation of charge that you must attack from the closest space in which he can reach me, which is a 10 ft. 11. You have counted Kracknol's force screen as +5, and didn't take the -2 charge penalty to AC for Kracknol into account on round 10. 12. What happened to the rest of the mirror images after Kracknol's initial attack failed due to hitting an image? 13. In round 12 Solon draws two scrolls while casting one of them in round 13. To use a scroll with a spell with somatic components, you have to have one hand free (besides the one holding the scroll) to make gestures. Obviously its better to draw one scroll and cast it immediately. 14. In round 15 you seem to be casting Color Spray from considerable distance. Color spray has only 15 ft. range. 15. In round 16 Solon makes an unarmed AoO at Kracknol when he tries to grapple. Unfortunately this is impossible for 2 reasons: Solon's unarmed strikes do not threaten, and Kracknol must attack from 10 ft. because he is charging, so even if he did threaten at 5 ft. Solon would'nt get an attack. 16. In round 17 Solon attacks Kracknol with his fist. My tactics say to escape the grapple. You do that in subsequent rounds, why not in round 17? 17. I asked you to have Horus make diving charges, but I don't see them anywhere (a diving charge does double damage). 18. I don't know what you are trying to do with the 'sense' rolls, but they don't make a lot of sense to me. I think its easier to just roll when it really matters, and then write down the results in the fight text. Currently I have no idea who has spotted who and when. 19. Ride checks are use for cover as reaction to an attack, not at the beginning of the round. Each new attack requires a new ride check. 20. You make mention that from now on all your fights will be in a shadowy enviroment. Rules of Gladius specify that the enviroment of the arena adapts to its gladiators, meaning that if it is beneficial for one or both gladiators (but not detrimental to the other) it will be bright light, for example. I'm calling it quits for now, I rather put the rest of my time in working on Gladius Weekly. |
| Usurpator10-26-05, 05:10 AM | @Book5: I'm not trying to discourage you from Pitlording, I think that with your energy, dedication and creativity you have the potential to be a great Pitlord. You just have to brush up your rules knowledge and application of tactics a bit. That's why I have also pointed out some things that have no effect on this fight but they may do so in future fights. |
| SoulLord10-26-05, 09:32 AM | That one's my bad, actually - for some reason, I didn't notice the arrows on your shoulder, so I noted in my tactics that, once Alac dropped Lissa's horse, she'd have to take an action to retrieve them. That oughta teach a pitlord to trust a mere player in pointing out combatant details... :P -- Pauper he he True I didn't change it since it did not affect the outcome. I also missed she had arrows on her shoulder. But from now on I'll have to double check your details regarding your oponents :) |
| Enterik10-26-05, 11:04 AM | Devolved (Enterik) vs Wolfcaller (Poe) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7572172&postcount=534) Ok, I got tired of waiting for Cat (although granted I only sent the PM a few hours ago) so I edited in the results using what I think he was saying. Devolved got a little farther, but unfortunatly he couldn't win the war of attrition vs the wolf. @Mind Rogue: So in order to win, I had to kill both Wolfcaller AND Snowfang outright? I figured if I killed Wolfcaller, I'd win, as such my tactics stated I was going to full attack Wolfcaller regardless of who was nipping at my tail. In those last rounds where Snowfang was missing, surely I could have brought the unconscious Wolfcaller to -10hp. If I am wrong, set me straight for my own good, so I don't proceed through future matches on flawed assumptions, maybe I'll invest in some Hide from Animals Magic (unless of course PCs count as creatures) :embarrass Taking another look at version III, I think releasing wolfcaller and attacking Snowfang isn't reflecting the tactics sent for Devolved which stated, "If attacked while grappling Wolfcaller, maintain full attacks on him regardless." Since Devolved has a wisdom of 14 and the unconscious wolfcaller is a much easier target, why wouldn't Devolved try to shread the helpless Wolfcaller to death in the next round for the win? Instead, you have him risking the match to attack an uninjured Snowfang even though Devolved was low on hp and killing Snowfang did nothing to bring Devolved closer to victory. With the attack rolls as they are in round 8... Claw 1 [8]+4=12 to hit AC8 [10+3armor-5dex] damage d4[1]+3=4 Claw 2 [10]+4=14 to hit AC8 damage d4[1]+3=4 Bite [14]+4-2secondary=16 to hit AC8 damage d4[1]=1 All hit, even without the +4 bonus to hit usually given when attacking a helpless victim. Total minimal damage to Wolfcaller in round 8, 9hp, which puts Wolfcaller at -10hp and dead before Devolved... |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 11:11 AM | Just an update on the Anya vs Perius fight... I guess I'm glad I didn't start until this morning. Despite the two of you not trying to be especially sneaky, I'm in round 35 of the fight and there hasn't been a single hit. This is mostly because Anya hasn't rolled above a 10 and while Perius has been rolling well - he needs a 20 to hit... Well - back to the action I guess... |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 11:31 AM | Just recorded the first damage of the fight in round 56... should be over in another 112 rounds at this pace... |
| Ravashack10-26-05, 11:33 AM | Just recorded the first damage of the fight in round 56... should be over in another 112 rounds at this pace... Sounds like I need to buy more bolts next time... |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 11:44 AM | Posted the first 67 rounds, just to give a good save point. Anya is down to 7 bolts, while Perius has 6. Have I mentioned this fight has been running rather long... |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 11:53 AM | Okay, the fight is done... finally... Here it is... (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7598300) Two hits in 70+ rounds... amazing... |
| NiQil10-26-05, 11:55 AM | Okay, the fight is done... finally... Here it is... (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7598300) Two hits in 70+ rounds... amazing... This fight shall henceforth be known as "The Shootout at the Gladius Corral". That was just.....wow....ugly. Now imagine if they were using arrows and carried my standard payload of 100 arrows....each of them. :eek: |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 12:01 PM | The funny thing is - Perius really had nothing about moving to cover - so by all rights, I could have left him wide out in the open and had him be pegged full... of course, that wouldn't have made a huge difference - only rounds 32, 39, and 58 would have hit as a result. Longest fight I've ever run... that's for sure. |
| Sindorin10-26-05, 12:03 PM | I have noticed that there is a significant mellowing-out of tactics since the changes to the arena. Players no longer seem to go all-out, and instead often rely on hitting an AC where they need to roll an 18 or higher to hit... It makes for a very competetive atmosphere when everyone is concentrating on defense. Practically every character sheet seems very potent with these tactics LOL. It is, however, very annoying for the pitlord when tactics dictate to do one thing when a build is rather good at something else... |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 12:07 PM | The funny thing is - if Anya was a little more offensive - she could've gotten to range and done the whole wild-surged energy ray with psionic shot and just cremated him... Perius - really doesn't have anything to do that with - he focuses on using his magical bolts. I guess my advice to either one is to use what you are good at - Anya - get closer (and make it so that you are comfortable doing so) - Perius - learn to shoot better with the crossbow. Instead of enchanting the crossbow further with plusses - get a flaming or shocking or something else enchantment on it. That will be huge. Also - get something to boost your to-hit on it - whether offensive precognition or something else. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 12:08 PM | I know what you mean, but i've always tried to take care of as much as possible (within reason) in my tactics. I try not to "mellow them out". All characters have weaknesses, and when i write my tactics i focus on that rather than my own characters strengths. Because attacking via my strength, could very well be their best defense. I always work on weaknesses of my opposition first, then my own strengths and see how they compare to each other. But i always focus on their holes first. always. -ToK |
| King Uther10-26-05, 12:27 PM | Cid beats the flames out of a fire elemental (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7598673&postcount=547) is up. A 2-round shocker. |
| NiQil10-26-05, 12:31 PM | I know what you mean, but i've always tried to take care of as much as possible (within reason) in my tactics. I try not to "mellow them out". All characters have weaknesses, and when i write my tactics i focus on that rather than my own characters strengths. Because attacking via my strength, could very well be their best defense. I always work on weaknesses of my opposition first, then my own strengths and see how they compare to each other. But i always focus on their holes first. always. -ToK I'm the same way....I look for ways to either exploit someone elses holes, or to neutralize their biggest threats to me. So much so that I sometimes overlook my own weaknesses and how the other person might exploit them and end up getting burned (see the battle one of my characters had with Cerebus' Pirotess where I got grappled by a friggin horse LOL). |
| King Uther10-26-05, 01:23 PM | HG vs Tak (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7584031&postcount=538) has been edited. The fight lasted twice as long, and the results were changed to incorporate a Protection From Arrows potion, as listed in the tactics. |
| Ravashack10-26-05, 01:25 PM | That was the idea TelinArtho, but it has to be enchanted first with +1 before I *can* add something like that. And I was planning on getting Offensive Precognition next level as well, if you saw my botched level up before I cleaned up the mess today. To be honest though, I was expecting you to move us closer. Edit: Every time I HAVE written about taking cover, no one ever bothers to. So at this point I just said screw it, especially since I didn't see Perius having a chance of hitting Anya. I'm kind of limited on what I can do because if I make it too long, it gets ignored, and if I make it too complicated, no one ever asks me for clarification--that's why I try to send tactics as early as possible. There are things done that, if I was controlling the character, wouldn't happen, but that applies to everyone so I ignore them for the most part. So all I CAN do is make it as short and simple as possible. |
| Mind Rogue10-26-05, 01:49 PM | Wow. That was a seriously long fight. I'm sorry that I put you through that. Everyone has weaknesses, and Anya's is speed, but I guess I could have just used the tatoo of skate to ensure that he couldn't get away, although it looks like he didn't want to do that and he's better in melee than I am anyway. @Enterik I had you break grapple because of this line in your tactics: If LOS established, close as quickly as possible, even using run, if necessary. Attempt to charge with grappling claw attack for lethal damage, then continue full grappling attacks until Wolfcaller falls. Then eat his steaming entrails or kill his pet wolf if necessary. I took that to mean to get rid of the wolf before CdG Wolfcaller. Also, I'm not sure what the official rules are for when you win. Situations like this can come up where one person falls, but they still have allies around (especially with summoners), who can eliminate the other person. I just thought that the match is not over until you eliminate a foe's means of defeating you. Thus, if you were to fight a summoner, you need to survive the summoned monstes to win. Of course, it is quite likely that I am wrong, although it looks like I'm running out of time to edit the fight. |
| SoulLord10-26-05, 02:46 PM | I have always taken it to mean your opponent perishes when he's at -10 hp. If allies survive after that too bad the fight has already been lost. |
| Sunwolf10-26-05, 03:10 PM | @Mind Rogue I have always seen fights end when a gladiator dies. Pets/allies do not need to be killed - just the gladiator. Pets/allies still defend an unconscious gladiator and may kill the opponent before the unconscious gladiator dies thereby winning the match for their master. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 03:28 PM | You win, when your opponent reaches -10 (or lower), even if he has 20 allies still alive to fight. Oh, sure they may kill you, but it matters not at that point. -ToK |
| Enterik10-26-05, 03:30 PM | HG vs Tak (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7584031&postcount=538) has been edited. The fight lasted twice as long, and the results were changed to incorporate a Protection From Arrows potion, as listed in the tactics. As I foolishly predicted. Maybe I should change HG's alignment to lawful stupid :P @Anyone: How many arrows can be magically enhanced with a magic weapon spell? Or is it just the bow which conveys the bonus to the projectile. As is clear from the match, it's important for Milstead... |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 03:34 PM | Hmmm - Greater Magic Weapon specifies the number of ammunition that are affected - but regular Magic Weapon does not. It would appear that enchanting the bow would make greater sense in this case (and yes it does bestow the magic properties to its ammunition). /d |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 03:36 PM | As I foolishly predicted. Maybe I should change HG's alignment to lawful stupid :P @Anyone: How many arrows can be magically enhanced with a magic weapon spell? Or is it just the bow which conveys the bonus to the projectile. As is clear from the match, it's important for Milstead... Magic weapon affects only one arrow. You'd be better off casting it on the bow, which bestows said bonus to the ammunition. -ToK |
| Enterik10-26-05, 03:36 PM | @Enterik I had you break grapple because of this line in your tactics: If LOS established, close as quickly as possible, even using run, if necessary. Attempt to charge with grappling claw attack for lethal damage, then continue full grappling attacks until Wolfcaller falls. Then eat his steaming entrails or kill his pet wolf if necessary. I took that to mean to get rid of the wolf before CdG Wolfcaller. Also, I'm not sure what the official rules are for when you win. Situations like this can come up where one person falls, but they still have allies around (especially with summoners), who can eliminate the other person. I just thought that the match is not over until you eliminate a foe's means of defeating you. Thus, if you were to fight a summoner, you need to survive the summoned monstes to win. Of course, it is quite likely that I am wrong, although it looks like I'm running out of time to edit the fight. @Mind Rogue: My syntax could have been clearer and more precise. I will avoid such equivocal statements in future tactics offerings. My intent would be better phrased, "Then eat his steaming entrails or kill his pet wolf if necessary in order to win the match". I myself was unsure about the ruling but was working on the assumption (from reading other matches) that all Devolved need do was bring Wolfcaller to -10hp. There's a time limit for editting fights? |
| NiQil10-26-05, 03:39 PM | You win, when your opponent reaches -10 (or lower), even if he has 20 allies still alive to fight. Oh, sure they may kill you, but it matters not at that point. -ToK This is especially true if there are still allies to fight with. If you get someone down to -1, and are then stuck in a fight with his allies, it is possible that those allies could get you down to -10 before your opponent bleeds out. Yet another reason Handle Animal checks are so important....if they don't happen, then you can stand 10 ft away and watch someone bleed out and the ally won't touch you without instructions to do so. |
| Sindorin10-26-05, 03:41 PM | Most of the time in that case the animal knows the defend trick, so regardless of their master being down, they should already be engaging their master's attacker. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 03:41 PM | There's a time limit for editting fights? You have another 1 hour and 20 minutes to edit it if you so wish. -ToK |
| NiQil10-26-05, 03:46 PM | Most of the time in that case the animal knows the defend trick, so regardless of their master being down, they should already be engaging their master's attacker. Not true. The Defend trick only kicks in if the master is being threatened. If you are standing 10 ft away (assuming no reach weapons), and not making aggressive actions, then you are not threatening the master, thus the animal won't do anything. What you are describing falls under the Attack trick, which can only happen if that command is given. And if you are referring to the animal already in "Defense" mode when the master goes down....well as soon as you back away you are no longer a threat, so it will cease attacking. Defend (DC 20): The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given. Alternatively, you can command the animal to defend a specific other character. Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks. |
| Enterik10-26-05, 03:50 PM | You have another 1 hour and 20 minutes to edit it if you so wish. -ToK So I can edit a fight run by Mind Rogue to reflect the appropriate application of my tactics? Mind Rogue is offline after saying he's running out of time to do a 1 round fix that changes a loss to a win for Devolved and not doing the fix. So despite the fact that I have persistantly advocated changes in a timely fashion, if the pitlord decides not to log on and fix it...that's that? It doesn't seem fair... |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 03:54 PM | Well, essentially - yes - its not fair. Remember that the pitlord is technically under no obligation to redo sections of fights - even in the case of egregious errors. Yes we advocate that you should - but the fact of the matter is not everyone has the time to do it. You should feel satisfied in knowing that you would have won the fight. I have several of these in my list - but there comes a time to just move on. If we left fights open for extended periods of time (beyond the current pairings), then changes would be made to characters after pairings are set. The only solution that keeps things "simple" is to extend the fight another week - which has to be agreed upon by the pitlord and the players alike. And sometimes - its just too much hassle to be worth it. |
| Enterik10-26-05, 04:13 PM | Well, essentially - yes - its not fair. Remember that the pitlord is technically under no obligation to redo sections of fights - even in the case of egregious errors. Yes we advocate that you should - but the fact of the matter is not everyone has the time to do it. You should feel satisfied in knowing that you would have won the fight. I have several of these in my list - but there comes a time to just move on. If we left fights open for extended periods of time (beyond the current pairings), then changes would be made to characters after pairings are set. The only solution that keeps things "simple" is to extend the fight another week - which has to be agreed upon by the pitlord and the players alike. And sometimes - its just too much hassle to be worth it. Yeah, I can be a grown up about it :P Mind Rogue did respond positively, even when we disagreed, which I appreciate. I guess the CoCo is a training ground for PCs and DMs alike. I know for my part, a few more rules have been much clarified. Still,it's not so easy to let go when the win is so close. Personally, I would have preferred he change the fight instead of replying to my comment and concerns which have no shelf-life :tantrum: ;) |
| Huan10-26-05, 04:14 PM | VERY last-minute Pale-Rider vs Nessa (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7600259) is up. Short Version: Some math and angle/vectors aside, this fight was complicated from a tactics point of view since the start. There is a question of whether the grapplers fall while midair, which maybe they do ... but if that is the case, then certainly all are dragged down and take falling damage regardless, and grappling would continue or all would die (in other words, it would not make a difference in the result)... or all slowly float down given the magic and grappling continues (again, not affecting the end result) @OWA, Poe the Great Fight was adjusted and reran. Even after 7 additional free attacks on Durkon's behalf, he still did not beat down the trip and re-tripped Kailia, who still landed the killing blow (even from prone). Again, my apologies to all players for my tardiness. @Pitlords I am taking a short vacation from Pitlording for the next 2 weeks. I have some stuff to cool down in RL, first. I don't want to hurt other gladiators by balancing their fights on top of my other stuff. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 04:18 PM | VERY last-minute Pale-Rider vs Nessa (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7600259) is up. Short Version: Some math and angle/vectors aside, this fight was complicated from a tactics point of view since the start. Completely appreciate you running it in such a short time for a complicated fight. Only one note, which changes nothing, area effects that damage the caster do not remove images. That's all...and i agree with how you ran it afterwards even if i had lost my images, so no need to alter anything. Well done. -ToK |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 04:19 PM | @Huan - one minor thing I noticed (won't change the result or anything) - when an area effect is hitting a character with mirror images - all of the images react as if they were hit - so none of the images dissipate from this. Only through actual individual attacks do they disappear. /d |
| Huan10-26-05, 04:22 PM | @Tok, TA Thanks for those quick-draw replies and clearing that up... I wondered if that was the case. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 04:22 PM | there must be an echo in here. j/k lol |
| One_Winged_Angel10-26-05, 04:39 PM | @OWA, Poe the Great Fight was adjusted and reran. Even after 7 additional free attacks on Durkon's behalf, he still did not beat down the trip and re-tripped Kailia, who still landed the killing blow (even from prone). Thanks for re-doing the fight. I really would have felt guilty at taking a win before. @Poe: Good fight! One of the harder one's that Kailia has been in. |
| Prisonlords10-27-05, 12:07 PM | VERY last-minute Pale-Rider vs Nessa (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7600259) is up. Short Version: Some math and angle/vectors aside, this fight was complicated from a tactics point of view since the start. There is a question of whether the grapplers fall while midair, which maybe they do ... but if that is the case, then certainly all are dragged down and take falling damage regardless, and grappling would continue or all would die (in other words, it would not make a difference in the result)... or all slowly float down given the magic and grappling continues (again, not affecting the end result) @OWA, Poe the Great Fight was adjusted and reran. Even after 7 additional free attacks on Durkon's behalf, he still did not beat down the trip and re-tripped Kailia, who still landed the killing blow (even from prone). Again, my apologies to all players for my tardiness. @Pitlords I am taking a short vacation from Pitlording for the next 2 weeks. I have some stuff to cool down in RL, first. I don't want to hurt other gladiators by balancing their fights on top of my other stuff. I have some issues with this fight. I understand running the fight due to the fact that you are taking some time off, but I have to comment on a few things.... Against spellcasters: Fly high - 120'+ archery; stay outside of Medium Range. Okay, he cannot fly 120' into the air, but he SHOULD HAVE BEEN "...outside of Medium Range" aka 165' or more. Nessa has the better manuverability, allowing him to Outmanuver the Hippogriffs. All he has to do is double move and turn in there, slipping behind and around some obstacles, and this forces the Hippogriffs to use double moves to have a chance to get near him. Double moving with turns wastes actions and they never get to attack. Evade until they disappear. Also.... There are multiple listings for Power Stones. Some are augmented and others are not. I paid the correct amount for each. Why were no Power Stones of Vigor used? The Hippogriffs have to be able to move and grapple. The second one to join cannot support all the rest, so they should have fell. Feather fall supports creatures no larger than Medium, so it does nothing. I do not believe that you can command a creature to do something that is automatically kill it - AKA joining a grapple and falling to their death. There is a very good reason why Hippogriffs basic attack plan is to flyby and attack that way. I'll have to post the rest later... |